22 Burst results for "Jono"
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"So it's kind of problem us there's another book Called desert ball which was written by a woman. Amy irvine which was a response to desert solitaire. And so i think and that was. i mean. it's it's really tiny but it's like a tickets. There's a passage that. I think the only thing that's ever brought me to tear that a road and so like i read them in tandem. This time i mean. I've read the solitaire a couple of months like this time. I read that again and then i read this book And it was really interesting to read them again. I like readings in. i think. Look if you read a good book you kinda graciosa kind of like you know. So it's like i. I would definitely say like does solitaire as a really great book. It makes you ask a lot of questions about him at about his views and how it's today's version of the world and stuff and then she'd have patches some of those holes up at like a very very way. The she writes. Look amazing. And i just thought of another clerical trespassing because i really like that unites. They somewhat expensive google. I'll make sure. I have your your book list on scott products blog. Post your list of books and then as far as their booze of choice when you're out in the in the desert are you. Are you drinking whisky. You have a few beers as it. No alcohol what what what. You're what Pretty diverse assortment. I would say i drink bourbon. So like ultra greg I wish i had a favorite bourbon. I don't like good bourbon like a bottle of voters Like yeah i think since i was a kid kids like in. My twenties always had like a like a bottle of old crow. Like crowd was like the classic like a plastic bottle. The plastic doesn't break in the truck when it's rattling around the twenty bucks for a big thing. How it's some coffee in the morning if you need to like. That's cool cool all right. So enclosing general have just two more to ask questions a little bit deeper questions. Never the easy. But but how would you want to describe your legacy up to now And i know you're you're still going But how would you if someone wanted to describe. How would you want them to describe as an adult as a weird where. I don't know i like. I said before. Like i have a problem. Not doing the things that i do And i think that's both getting a bad thing. You know. But i don't know anybody who will speak to the fact that like if i think i need to do within do thing and that's all i really like asked if myself at this point you know honorary no like legacy is such a strong word you know. I know some oin at some point. We all pass away or move forward. I don't pass at some point. We move into something else and all that is left is like what we put on the table. If i leave enough photographs nikki bold initiative. Outside at mike i leave. You know some of my bullshit written down on paper and make people feel something they read it. And i think that's an option. I think i'm not definitely taken a lotta photographs and definitely Shit on papers. So i think that if this alabama and finish the sentence johnno is elsewhere awesome. that's awesome. Why just the last thing is if you want to as far as your website you if you want to just say any of your social media handles again and because i barely touched on your black and white photography i did he at the beginning and But as far as any social handles that you wanna offer just as they want to connect with them and yet. I mean jonah General lamad at gene dot com. That's an email. i'm not gonna give my phone number out of gas. But i have much socket. Email virginal all text based communication honesty. A lot of people really don't appreciate that social media yeah chance grams l. e. dot is my color one and then i do have a black and white one because at some point in life i decided it together and said i have to And that one is elsewhere doubt often and and yeah and then you get older. I will eventually samba stuff. So yeah well you know what dude. I absolutely adored this conversation with you. Learned it just it just like again your photography and just kind of researching you know. Just how you are on your web and the other thing like you're a hell of a writer to what i read your your captions through instagram. And i was just like oh my god. This guy's a poet to like the way you right. But but i truly appreciate getting to know you and and sharing you know why you do what you do and and how you do it. And it's an honor to have you. Have you speak on scott for podcasts. And i truly appreciate your time and showing your story. Thanks for out of town or the -solutely also awesome. So this will close out. Another episode of the scotch potter podcast. And make sure you your check out the scotch partner blog and to see additional pictures of his work and see on the next one. Thank you for listening to another scotch. Part of podcast. Please visit scotch part dot com to see short documentary videos and more podcast episodes of other inspiring creators. And make sure you subscribe to the podcast and check us out on instagram. Facebook and youtube scotch parlor till next. Time cheers in go create..
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"Forward and that's all early. Okay okay no. That's all right. So let's now. Let's talk about beyond the photography design you being artists. Let's talk about just really quick. What's your sunday like. What are you what you relax and we can choose sunday or just. Give me a relaxing day. What's your what's your perfect daylight on us. Out of my perfect day is in the fields. I don't know my goes estimate on. I haven't really aside. I've been in grad school for a couple of years now. I haven't really had weekends built into my life in a while. And so i think my idea of leisure is you know i really appreciate quiet And so it's like. Maybe i'm not making a lot and maybe not driving a lot. They just sitting by a river. It's still unisex face. Stressful couple city by river sounds pretty phenomenal. Actually definitely like that but Yeah and i. It's probably more of like a wednesday gravitate towards the middle of the week when everybody else is at work. That's usually shell out somewhere. Okay okay okay. And then i know you say you'd have a truck and i. It's actually. I've seen a little bit seen parts of Features but is i mean. Is it your dream ride. You have got truck that you like This would be like everything we are. You just use love your trip. Are i love my track. More than i love. I drive a ninety nine tacoma. I bought her. she's actually shop right now. We're having a moment. But i bought a ninety nine with forty two thousand miles on it which is not supposed to exist and they are bulletproof trucks bulletproof trucks outside of the moment that we are currently added. She has like ninety one thousand miles on right now. They are the most reliable trucks over that i know about that. Most people will tell you about right. There is a following of these trucks. I thought it was all bullshit. Till i got one. That was like My access is really important to me. I have to do what i do. If i like excluded from the wild shape or form there is nowhere that i can't take that truck. A lot of people have bigger trucks heavier trucks. She's really light a jewish. She's a four cylinder so like six owner they make six owners power will be home specifically in utah. Just 'cause it's really sandies or pushing yourself. hand is pretty. It's pretty great But outside of that. Like i mean smashes it. He's a dream. That's like a perfect size for megadeath. If i end up if i like bring other people with me family or something like maybe the larger vehicle. But i'm pretty sure this is going to our last all of us so she's purple too so it's just kind of had never seen a purple truck until her mind and houses like oh cool doing this and again imagine truck is. She's just a little sick right now. But what about your bucket list. What's what's one thing on your bucket list. You sounds like the river right now but these were within that bucket list. One thing. I want to spend some time on a commercial fishing vessel yesterday. Whatever i i really love the ocean. I really loved the oregon coast in washington coast. I have not spent too much time like the very east. At least not by the ocean. Sense of men These general area but like not in the capacity that current in no most places right having explored that area. And i think there's something romantic about like nautical culture I i'm say commercial fishing like big barges that are likely to crawl huge nets smaller hannah just classic fishing I think there's something really interesting about that. Lot of respect for the people that facilitate experience rather for others. I think it's really interesting industry. And then i think the culture that exists in the towns exists because it is really interesting on. So that's like. I definitely want to do the same. I joined do next summer on a nice. That's cool that's cool. What about books. So i know you said you're you're still currently carry us as it was my favorite books that you fiction or nonfiction that sonya bookshelf. There's a lot. I mean. I'm like i'm in a weird space comes books because i just finished grad school. So it's like one of my all time. Favorite books is called the burn collector by algerian It's a collection of the that he put together like in this really kind of manack. Frantic like he got a job at kinko's stayed up all night. Just making these scenes drink coffee kind of imperfect and there's the glamorous kind of bad but it's really human sixteen seventeen house and that's been pretty a revisit that from time to time reading sweetgrass robin wall. Murder is a pretty assess point but when it comes to like Indigenous knowledge experience awhile. The internet's pretty phenomenal book. In the way that she writes israel was like she has passages. Or you're reading like you just like you feel things that you didn't even know you feel Sapiens by all noah harari. I think is his name I like i like people like that's really interesting. Like tecoma how we became people. That's like all of our history kind of all this versus a. I read it right before. I read this. Other book called tribe. Sebastian think younger j. u. n. g. r. g. e. r. I think Reading together so try about like. I think that subtitles again on home and coming or simple so it's all about how we fit into signing cultures. That but yeah cover like reading them in. Tandem was really interesting because it was like this is how we became people and this one is all about how like kind of the inner part of how he became like a like a social culture. At mcdonald's that was really interesting You know. I just reread desert solitaire. Which means totally different by. Abby have you ever heard of Like essential. Like you know people say that it started the the environmentalists move venezia's whole thing at abbey's like just like disgruntled duty wrote it You wrote it when he was in the sixties It's like a basically. His experience is a park ranger in arches national park as a couple different seasons in. It's like it's a very like Just like intense kind of classic losion of that like environmentalist writing. He also wrote the monkey wrench. Gang wishes ego anarchy like the earth first movement. Kind of like based everything off of that. It's like blow up on canyon dam like monkey wrenching. Where it's it's basically like fighting back against the development of wild and so that's you can't like i don't think he can love the desert and not loved that book desert solitaire but it's also like semi problematic. Sometimes people talk about how like you know. He's a product of his time. But he's like kind of a misogynist and he's like hannah racists times.
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"I think that people should worry more about putting their feet where they belong initial worry about the rest of it. I think that it's really easy for people to assume that the things they're not happy about other regards take technical defector has got a better thing. Better this about it. That it's a guaranteed as someone out there with an iphone has taken better pictures of me and many one that i now is dislike it all the time and just trust that the trust that it's gonna work out if you just put yourself in. The world is always performing up for it at learning how to show up for the key. That's just like with everything you know it's like you wanna do whatever you wanna do like if you just learn how to put yourself in place where you can receive that as much as give. It doesn't that it's costa workout mets. The world shower. Then you go all right all right all right. Wh- what inspires you actor. I on the ground right not dirt my dog. He's a runway is a border comics de more on is looking at me a. He's a really special dude and he's a really emotional intuitive animal and he is just like stoked i mean. It's like if. I think my favorite thing about being allowed us up experiencing other peoples experiences while you know what i mean. It's like i say. I spoke a lot about like it's not my experience and it's all this stuff on the line with the dog. I'm with other people on occasion you know. And it's like watching people fall in love with stuff and watching that they engage with cliff in the wild and the dirt at. It's like that's a really special thing for me. And so he is just go outside and he has stoked really the middle of the desert. He spends all his days off mansell. And like it's really inconvenient that he loves rolling in horsh. It didn't affect kind of socks. Discussion sleep in a pickup truck. But like if i could ever be half as excited to anything as he is to be covered in horse shit and dead animals that that seems like a path i should take life. You know. i'm like that's just just dawns just like a dog look. What do you do as far as learning. You're always you're always trying to get better at your craft as far as learning. What what are you to specifically to learn your copy on just actually going out and doing it do you. Do you watch some youtube for inspiration or or or what. What i mean i will look into you to. I think it's like we have pretty vast array of tools at our disposal. Now live in I used to read a lot when i was. i mean. I still read a lot. But i used to specifically read a lot about photographic techniques when i was younger because there were a lot of books that were like this is this is how you do this thing and when i was learning more about like in sexual academy photography. That's actually had darker stuff and film that kind of stuff felt linden in books and that was also the full. Youtube is what is now like master mass all forums and read it. I mean it's like it's but i think it's also like i take a fair amount of time to reflect on my own work and i feel like every time i make something i find something wrong with it. I'm people say that that's a needing pessimist but it's really just like i'm always trying to jimmy things and like i always find some reason. Why those flawed. A flaw flotsam today. Where i've been trying to make videos recently when i'm like every time i make something be kinda better if it didn't if this didn't happen so it's like so how to prevent that from happening or like you to now like trying to troubleshoot you know. I'm like noticing things in a way to my new camera. Setup works and like okay. Cool so like when i blow this up to a twenty by twenty four print which is massive. I've noticed this thing that i'd never noticed before. And so like what is that. And then what is find find. Somebody's like you know. Find some people on the forum. Tell me and i'm like do they think like okay. So what do i need to do. And then the next time. I go out and do differently. I think there's always there's always a solution. And so i think that like you don't really know about a solution to the problem and so like i don't really think it's about like poking holes in yourself and that kind of a negative way but i think it's really important to like test yourself and your practice and really push yourself in terms of like what you're capable of and like fine things you wish for a little bit better. I started shooting with remote control. Recently much wireless thing. It's like this big. It has changed my life. I haven't shooting for years like a little. Just like not touching the camera like going like this just setting up a scene in going like this has made a surprising difference in the way in the quality of imagery and i never would have noticed that if i wasn't like trying to print the size that i am printing interesting. That's a great tip. Did you little things you know. And that's because it's not necessarily a. I guess the question about yeah we can look at it again. Youtube read more books ranchers at the other day. It is about your actually what you're doing is that's why you're designer as well. You're reviewing your user testing. You're going back. And and and and seen not so much for the perfection which just how to make it better like you know like yeah. There's the unicorn of perfection that we strive for but but that is cool because of the fact that you're able to go back at it and yourself teaching yourself on so next time now if you do it twice then you're not bernie famous. It's it's interesting you bring up Like the user testing quarterback cuts. I recently asked by self. Like what like. What is the user experience of the wild. Like weird people think about you. Access like our apps in our phones. South lucky i think our experiences governed by do and we hand over so much of that agency to the people who designer. Why they designed stuff to reuse. It is edited but today like you are personally responsible for your own user experience in the world of so like it is kind of like like just do all the things push all the boundaries right. Just ask questions. That's like the biggest ask. W. there's always someone's always definitely done what you've done. You're not not the first person making a mistake. Ever share fisher pitcher so the acronym woodward basically why. I do what i do. Y do you do what you do do things. 'cause i can't get them That might be a cop out right. But like i think there's a lot of things in life that i can do like. I've tried a lot of different things. I've mastered quite a few skills. I like played a lot of music. I've done a lot of different versions of art. I have shot a lot of different kinds of the targets alleged somebody if somebody will pay for type of photograph i have taken type of a but the things that at this point in my are the only things that kind of makes sense to me and i wish that it was more of a choice of a compulsion The truth my will be a lot simpler. If i had a choice in the matter honestly and so i think it's really just like i find the things that pulled me forward.
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"I don't know Eyelid mike tiny one-room earth ship without the no. I don't have sewage. Water goes until i plant benz and it's like solar powered and i can't use things that use a lot of electricity. It's hot and it's dusty. There sandoval everything. My dog likes roller than horse. Shit and animal shit and that's like he's always covered in something disgusting. I don't shower. I like a joy being gross in the back pickup truck. That's you know that's like the physical part of the emotional part of it. It's like i. I like talking to strangers. I like engaging in stories. I like meeting people where they are ally or life. It's like giving think that's a type of discomfort. that also pretty comfortable with you. Know like i'll. I'll go to a bar and also there by myself for days until i find the guy that i really want to and i have no problem just like talking to restraint dude in the middle of the wilderness. Who looks like he might. Kinda be dangerous Levels of this. I think that like we each after with personal boundaries and i think that mine are pretty permeable I learn a lot about. How is she'll in the world. Pretty consistently and i think that it's You know when it comes to work mike. My design were hinges on my ability to talk to people. I like ethnographic research. I joining play. Find those connections. And i think that's a thing that a lot of people don't really know how to do or at least you don't know how to do in a way to feel equitable. Almost like people are like. I wanna talk locals. It's of a. I'm really interested in like the investigative aspect is research that can be and i think eventually comes from now in that like i can go to these places where i have a completely different background a completely different version of like you know my perspective when it comes to like politics and like like that all that stuff you know. It's like i go to places i don't. I have no idea how this happens. But it's like. I talked to people that could not be further from me on like the political spectrum and like we have a lot in common and we connect and then it's like if we ever had to talk about the last couple of elections probably wouldn't get along in the world we never get there before we get to point. We talked about like dirt in the wild. And that's like that. I think is a lot of people i think putting themselves in spaces that are outside of their bubble and putting themselves in places where like they might not fit in is kind of it goes against like most basic human instincts. I think we're like preprogramed. These people have safe. And i'm like that feels pretty unsafe. But like that's a better story is. That's a just a question that does it makes sense. I mean absolute on the on the design side. I mean that's that's a special thing with like senior designers and is it's not necessarily. Yeah you can design a great interface right. You can do that. But it's knowing who your user is or knowing who you're designing for and and the empathy you know the empathy is a key word right being empathetic but but it's really getting to know intimately who why they do what they do. And and i think the fact that you can go up to strangers and just a general conversation. Because you know we're human or you and you might have these beliefs but you know what we like. We like the wildlife dirt. And that's and you know it were human again. So it's it's it's it's that's that's awesome. That's that's your secret sauce. I love it. I love it. I love it annoyed. What about creating internally what does creating do for you creating everything for I think it's like a weird thing that happens when you decide. You're going to be an artist. I'm not really sure you've made that decision in time. An- anybody ever made that decision. Probably not alignment that sells any space or the artist But i think that i mentioned before about having a criminal boundaries and i that that's like a really important thing but it comes to like the skills and crafts and the things that people do because i think a lot of people think that it's about putting themselves into something and they don't really allow the states for that thing to enter them and i think that's me you know if you looked me ten years ago five years ago three years ago i am constantly evolving and not necessarily of all these something that i am making decisions that i am going to do. A lot of time evolving based on the reactions. I have had the things that i've experienced while creating I'm not have to tell him. Not sure if like. I'm making the work if it's making me and that's built jimmy It feels like i need to allow that to surrender to a lot of time. Simulate tumbleweed rolling around is the kind of thing where it's like. Sometimes things really weird. Because you're going to get great at my desk. And evan slow and i'm gonna learn from that and like the person the man that i that is holy in regard to like how i chased things which as sunsets jason Feel small. I do that with the camera on. I do that with a notebook trying to understand how people worked out there. Like that's really important. And i think that's for me. That's the most because for me it's it's all about translation and it's all about understanding. And so at my. My understanding of the world unexpected is facilitated by creating by engaging in the spaces in which allowed to create which have the privilege degree. You know having everything. I feel so incredibly priviledged experience. The world they do. Yeah and that's made me you know and when you say when you say you're you're grateful for the opportunity for you to experience world because yeah you like. We mentioned a little earlier. You experienced things that most people will never set foot soc- ever in their life and and that's the beauty of go back to pornography aspect is that's the beauty of photography right. It puts you in in spots in mitch. You travel and it makes you meet people and take pictures of crazy dogs in those random moments in life. And that's that's creating in and that's that's that's yeah that's awesome that's awesome you. What advice would you give out. What would you give to your younger self or really anyone. That's looking to follow your footsteps in the sense of the taga fee and in capturing those moments of life specifically about photography. Yeah we don't worry about your gear. I don't know..
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"As like. I'm like kind of like bound by time. You know like. I don't wanna be like this is what i'm doing right now. I don't want people to really like have this idea that. Like like in this moment i am experiencing this thing. I kind of like the idea of just like this is their like am i don on the sonora now nine oregon. I mean it's i don't really do it as a story of what i am doing. In the moment as much as general nicole during about me in about you know like the stations that i engaged with so i definitely revisit a lot. I also like it's amazing. What you can find an old fuller does after you've picked through it you know like i've gone back to some years ago. This photo rules dude. Like why is this guy. Never delete anything like a lot of people will go. I haven't deleted a photo or twenty years. So it's it's that kind of stuff. I think it's very important cool. Who as far as as far as i mean we. I i could ask you. I'm sure you have lots of favorite photos you do. You have a particular favorite one. That's faith rich have like favorites. I would say the two that come to mind breakdown to one. I've got a picture. I when i moved to oregon from your those very specific time of my life There's a lot of personal stuff happening on a family stuff But my goes like a release emotional and kind of charged period And so i kind of just like ran away a lot like i was just. I'm still kind of run away a lot. But i was very specifically like at a weird experience at festival the eclipse after the whole thing if you remember the total solar eclipse in two thousand seventeen and i was like i need to go do something i need to go to something like really big. I need to get away from the city. So i drove to grant. It was first time. I've ever been to the grand canyon Now's i just seemed like the biggest thing. I could do like to go. Look at something huge incapable. Seventeen hours away. I was like let's do. That's onto on the way down there. I drove down through band bend oregon and i went to the trader jealous his trenches. Use it too much plastic. But they're like be best camp food spot groceries. Got a lot of stuff. That's really good for like on the road like they've got like weird salads in a bag and things like that you know that really coming i. It's not a good chance stuff. And so i was like in the parking lot eating sandwich and drinking a beer in like looking at the map because i like maps and this dude comes over. He's of this wild older. I mean just like a long white everything beer air mean you just like really done the same looking at a map. And he's like we're going to the grand canyon like are you going to get there and i kind of like just showed him how i thought i might go and he was like you don't want to like you wanna go over here. added according to add like three or four hours to the drive and it was like trust me. Just do this. He wanted me to go through the scenes now I was like okay church. That's when that kind of thing happens you just trust that. I did that down there. And i was driving down middle of the night at two o'clock in the morning and they're the highway. I don't exactly is there. I think it's the oregon outback by way with the our and there's like all of these jackrabbits shlein across the road. Every twenty feet mean. You can't not like it's literally impossible to not and And so i pulled over for a while like maybe they're just like maybe there's something happening like maybe they just need a moment turns out they just do it all the time like it's not and i'm just like driving and i looked down for a second. I looked up. And there are these mound lights in the middle of the road laying down nose to nose in the entire road an ida at that point in life. I never seen amount mind. I've seen several cents. That was like i just moved from brooklyn new york with that. Was he's swerved. I almost hit them. The whole thing. And i was like only like a quarter mile half mile from the turnoff to like the french glenn loop which is a go down there so i pulled into the franklin area and our job for while i was terrified to get out of the car. I was driving a subaru at the time. And i was like i. I'm not getting out of melinda dog out. There's bound lines in there like they've been eating david jack clearly like out for blood right now and so slept really uncomfortably in the front seat of my car And then woke up. And i drove at night. I had no idea that. I was like up at the top. Of the steve's woke up and there's just as crazy vista or just like looking down into the albert desert which at that point time like i had basically never seen anything like that And so that was pretty crazy. Spent some time with that great but on the way back down to the road I got stuck in all of these sheep. There was a shepherd okay And so the she was massive sheep. This is the thing that happens on that as ranchers all through Southeast oregon. It's like that's that's not here county. But the scenes are those who counties that are next to each other their ranch and agriculture-based really specific community will be down there since they were home centers. And so there's a lot of that kind of stuff that i didn't know now and so i'm just see ship is and i'm like i've never. This is cool. So i start shooting that right like out of my car window and i get out and this dog this. I think is an anatolian shepherd. Which i don't know if you've ever seen they are like massive animals man. They're they're like built to protect herds. They come from overseas. I mean it's like they are like i. i met one a new recent. His head comes up to like here. I mean they're just like they're beasley. You know are just like fuck you. This is my heard. I will destroy you get out and you just hear run over and i'm like okay. Fine he just like she. And i'm just like i'm back in the back of the car. That's finding look. I'm not doing it. And he's looking at and so is not the shot of that And i've got the shot just like this. Herb of she just like moving behind him and he is just staring like dead on how on. That's probably my favorite song. I've ever taken that. Data is cool. That's awesome because there's you know it's not when you you know what you're all. It's this photo. No there's a story behind the favourite photo right and that and not. That's that is that is really cool. So so you saw jack rabbits mountain lines and sheep and a crazy dog. That's protecting its sheep. Wow yeah no not oh man. That's all right. Or is that pitcher in the part of your on your grid on instagram. Yet it's probably pretty far back. I can send it to It's cool probably about twenty seventeen. I mean every asha properties. Yeah that'd be cool. I would love to see that coup. So what is your secret sauce. What you your your. I was your your photography's beautiful. I could go said it many times. But what do you. What do you feel like your reason for your success and and it could just be about photography but just you as a person as an artist like what do you feel like. You're you're you're you're secret sauce to success was been. I'm really comfortable being uncomfortable Just in general..
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"Wild through. His is what he's capturing so it's unbelievable. Thank you for listening to this. Episode of the scotch prior podcast just a reminder make sure you make visit scotch dot com subscribe to the podcast and also check us out on instagram facebook and youtube scotch. Par now back to the episodes so as far as like the process. Like how do you. How do you like okay. i'm gonna go here like your planet. How do you plan it. Is it just kind of you know you just getting your car and kind of go. Where is there there a specific. I wanna capture this spot at this time for this reason. Kind of thing It hasn't flows i. I don't plan nearly as much as a lot of people in fact a lot of the time i won't plan at all. I think a little bit too much. And i think pretty metaphorically about my process And i like of building a lot of structure. Until like how i think about how i'm going to move through space and so i i like the idea of like tumbleweed as a metaphor for this signals rooted when it needs to be like kind of rolls through based on the natural flows the culture. And i'm like you know people know what a tumbleweed looks like but they only tumbleweed looks like while it's rolling through space. You know what. I mean like when it's just alone like it's just it just looks like another piece of stage Most people don't realize that when was rolling it's actually trying to spread seed like that is what it does is. It's a german. When so i think that knowing when to route enjoy place right now. I know that. I need to be connected. Look i know that that is the place to like. Sit down and be for awhile. Experience that space But then also knowing when to allocate time just let it that myself run around and find other tumbleweeds on the road. Couple fenceposts against dot com for a while. That's just kind of how that goes I think it's also pretty indicative of at the time that we live in a buddy shattering a couple of weeks ago. He was like well. I think i'm going to be on the road like july stiff. Kinda wanna leave. Oregon end of on maryland He was like so. Do you know where you're going to being. As i don't know it'd be five days from now. I'm gonna weird space in my life. But he's like i'm trying to figure out if i should go down to utah to see you or if i should go to montana after we've idaho and he's like what would you do like honestly like. I don't think i could make that decision. Because in july mnuchin is going to be blisteringly-hot i mean if you're not used to kinda eat is going to be belligerent. But then based on how things have gone montana could very will be on fire. It's just that's just a reality. We live in this moment so like without. Ah a weather report in front of me. Like i can't decide what that looks like two months. You know anybody that actually moves students faces. I tried to drive up the coast last year. I was like i'm going to finally. I'm gonna drive the entire west coast. As soon as i left from san diego i went and i touched. The border with mexico sandiego the entire west coast connor fire and wildfire season. And i was just like this is what i get for trying to clarify. I have really just learned to like just trust the environment that in just like understand when when devotion to not unlike when guide me. And you know. I'm the world is a really funny way of showing you what you need if you not listen to it. And so that's like the biggest part of my process for sure and then the rest of just kind of like understanding what to do. When i'm they're kind of dealing with the implications of like being a pickup truck in the middle of nowhere. Where might go wrong. They go right or whatever all right. That's cool so you just get like like a tumbleweed. that's awesome. That's great today. let's say so you. Have you got some great shots. You get you get home. What's your what's your i mean. Are you in light room photoshop. Like what your process i map. I didn't labor. I will occasionally bring things into photoshop if they require more comprehensive There are there certain scenes. It's interesting like the desert requires more process. I would say than other places because there is a deceiving amount going on in terms of like focus and things like that so like sometimes. I'll be focused acking Sometimes i'll like in the canyons. For instance i'll do some like exposure bracketing and things like that just because it's like surprisingly difficult to shoot set of canyon when the sun is moving around So there's definitely some of that stuff happening and that stuff happens most effectively in Shops but i try to keep it as minimal as possible I don't i have learned to rely on technology to very specific way. I am not very technological person If i could live my life without a computer that would be great And so it's it's kind of a thing where i figured out what works for me. But i mean to be honest. Like i saw a buddy of mine's Like file set up the other day. Like how the head of the organized. Now's like wow. This is how that's supposed to be. My life is chaos. So but i mean light room is definitely like the most effective platforms out of used to That it i mean. I feel like when i started. Remember just getting off the ground. Just photoshop at the time and you weren't really even using light with i. It was more like people in grinch a lot to to categorize stuff for the talent. File hierarchies and stuff Satellite remote often. It's really become a super profile people who just like don't even who've never even used it on a computer but i know people who are like relatively successful and they just use it on their phones on the ipad. That's what yeah. That's what i was gonna ask you two questions. So yeah. so that's what's crazy now. I've actually learned from another photographer. I was surprised. I do most of their ads through a tablet or their phone while they're on the train. Whatever may be and then. I was exploited a little bit but i never like was like you know has to be done on the computer no matter what but i have. I'm now i'm like now. I want to get a new ipad. Because i can edit photos a little bit easier on there instead of you know transferred onto your phone but i mean onto your computer but one of my questions when you're done with a photo when you put spend some time just making it look the way you want it to look. Do you just kind of sit there and come back to it or are you one of those. Where like all right. Let me let me let me share. I mean not that you're gonna share the instantly to the world's that's right it's done. Let me it's ready for sharing. I revisit things a lot I'll spend some time now. And i'll shoot everyone around there'd be like one like you kind of know when you're shooting something like when that image is going to be like the one you wanna share soon. You know what i mean as awesome point above powell on like this for summarizing of this. This is a great. Until i couldn't wait to get home and edited. Posted was cool. But like when i'm on the road for weeks and months it's just ero- through so much and a lot of it starts to kind of feel repetitive. Almost you know. Like i can't especially down at like i love the sonoran desert. This aren't as it has some of the most interesting you know flora and fauna in the country. I believe and it's like once you there for a couple of weeks every shot you take a cactus kinda start to feel the you. They're they could not be more different but at the same time you're just kind of like roll into the space. There's it's such a diverse landscape but it all kind of especially when you're looking at a phone the like this big all kind of the same and so like i'll do like a first past. Just just pick pick pick these luck and then like i'll go back and look at some other stuff and especially when it comes to posting truck careers post.
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"To be able to print really vague without worrying about degraded quality image and so that's a learning experience also have started in video. Wanted to have the capabilities to do that. so now i've got a A seven are three or four. Sorry it's hard to keep up with all these sony cameras coming out. Say so i'm day seventy four. But i haven't gotten rid of my cannon setup yet because i am not fully comfortable with everything you know. It's like i mean. I don't really need to think about us in canada. Yeah just a little bit more dialing in and we still it so we're still getting to know each other you're right and then it was like as far as lands like you how well what particular i know each each. I guess what you're shooting is gonna call for But do you have a favorite goto lens. My favorite kit lens against like i have. I've had a lot of lenses throughout time you know. I think that it's like my favorite actual lens is probably just like fifty fifty later for millimeter. One four really crystal glass as the most versatile ones. She what i do. A lotta guys or runaround backpack of stuff like this just like. I just like made a backpack with like just like what i need for all the phone lines. So twenty four to seventy two point. Eight was definitely my favorite lens. When i shop cannon and i bought that also showed up at the sony version of and it's a great lands. You know i'm still kind of like feeling out. Every zoom lens has its own limitations. You know let me like it's ever gonna be a prime piece of glass that works so definitely time for seventy in that. I've got the historically the seventy two two hundred in my bag. All the time also gives me like a twenty four to two hundred range. But when i switched over to sony i actually i like compressing scenes. Really right the telephoto aspect especially in my mountain ranges and stuff like that. So i went longer so i actually just picked up a one hundred to four hundred elevator zoom instead of the seventy two hundred dollars just to see what that was like. And it's it's kinda crazy do there's also it's also has an interesting amount of limitations that i have rarely ever dealt with like when you're looking far away i mean i was done in the mojave like a couple of months ago. Spent any time down there that he spends the light. I sort of like trying to try to figure out. Like i took these images and i was like. I don't really understand what this is. There's this weird like it wasn't blurry it was not a focus. Just like was kind of a little like this and i talked to a bunch of people being like as do you ever seen anything like this and like nobody anything like it. It's not the lens. It's not the camera. I think it's just like you know like in the movies or those. The sun comes up overlook distance. And i'm not saying pretty sure it was just that i think that's just. Yeah so like. I've never seen that before. I've also never shot with a lens like this. So i think it has to be i mean especially for like wildlife staff That's been really cool. Like being and makes the pitcher look the pigeon extending with it. Like i mean it's like i mean you know a lenses lenses lenses and it's just how close you can get to something right for me it's I like the details Places the desert The rock racism cliffs is stuff going on out there. That's crazy and there's also a lot of Wildlife that's obviously very afraid of you. Desert because nothing in the forest that used to you and stuff And so getting being able to get close to them has been really interesting. Yeah i can imagine. Yeah no so. As far as like style know you briefly talked about it. But do you. And this is how i like. I said at the beginning. How i read your style like you're like you literally put me in it. Why look at your pitcher. I'm like by myself. Mike and you and then you have your dog in their every once in a while which is awesome but there is that sense of just poetic where it's like you're by yourself but it's just very really soothing and and is that like kind of your a tent or is that just a natural style that you have at your gift. I'm really glad that you picked up on it like that. You know i was thinking about this kind of thing recently. I don a lot of people. Call me a landscape photographer. I don't consider myself landscape photographer. Artificial landscapes i shoot my life my life to be sent outdoors and i think i have a lot of feelings in general but specifically about our relationship wild And i feel you know. I think has a photographer that engaged the landscape and takes pictures of the wild and has someone who is ecologically minded at his interested in conservation and the way that we experience the wild I see kind of like the modern iteration olympia photography through like instagram. Or the way that we can perpetuate this adventure culture thing as mobile matic insurance relationship Because it's like everything's kind of been codified and commodified and it's this idea of like you know if if there isn't somebody in the foreground of your photograph wearing bright colored jacket scaring off into the distance in like a very no conjuring manner like does it matter. And that's just like that's the photography that's kind of like become synonymous with like the national park system. I was like being outside in like. That's just what has happened when asking the question. That doesn't matter it's like i am a buckeye matters like it's like i i am out there alone and like i. My relationship is with not with a person in their relationship with it. It's not about like you know proving that i did the thing about doing the thing and like you know. I think that's really important to me. I know important medium. The dog is pretty much the only person with me half the time on occasion. Other people come in you know but it's really just for me. It's about being outside of my building. A relationship with the wild being able to help other people engage. You know their own way. Whatever that is. It's it's a. It's a completely subjective thing. People have not everybody wants to live in the middle of nowhere like me and a very consolidated social students. I'm in oregon. la. Like i'm here for like a month and i'm can see all of my friends so i can be alone for a couple of months like a guy you're traveler so that's like i said i. That's what i took from. When i look at your your your art your photography and it's it's definitely through just your your journey. It reflects in your photography in and and the fact that now we i kinda got the insight on on where it comes from. It makes sense. I'm like but you're not and you know. I don't even think of you as a necessary landscape photographer. It's like you really just capturing the wild at this moment and and it just so. I make sure you check out his instagram. Start following them. It's not following the landscape photographer. You're you're swallowing the.
"jono" Discussed on Scotch Parlor | Capturing Lifestyles
"For being here. And i'll pass it onto your brief intro stoked to be here thanks for reaching out i was having conversations as you mentioned. I'm john. I am an artist photographer and designer currently living in desert down in southwestern utah. I've been doing what i do for the better part of fifteen years which is kinda crazy to think about But you know that is the reality of it. I have recently started diving. A little further into design just finished up a masters of fine arts in collaborative design The pacific northwest college of portland. Oregon tour have been working for a couple of years to get my feet. Wet and design research and speculative design like the world of Trying to understand what the future can not nice nice and yet you and you said you just recently finished her thesis in and and. I'm sure that that was took. It took a lot of hours and mine. Yeah i mean that was about a year into it. I actually hit send on the final piece of this morning. So -at's right there you go congrats. That's awesome awesome awesome awesome. So i know you'll see you're in utah now before we can get deeper into how you do what you do. I have this these questions that i want to be able to just click foundation questions and the random and they're supposed to be like short answers to it So first question in the summer. Would you rather go to the beach or go camping camping. I had that's incorrect. I like the coast hate the beach. That's a misnomer. I liked the ocean. I don't like all the people on the beach they said. What's the first thing you do in the morning. All right cool. If you only had one sense you hearing touchy what. What would that be site. James my favorite cool cocoa. And how were you a kid growing up where you always the creative type. Where you the athlete where you had the lemonade stand. Would you describe yourself as a kid. I was the creative artists. For when i was a kid i was also like into music and stuff of like intelligent arrogant and angry. I was pretty rebellious. Listen cat like heavy metal yelled at my teachers and stuff okay. Okay and then. Lastly are you doing now what you always wanted to do. Always a strong word. I don't think i knew what i wanted to do for a long time. I kept on doing things until they find things that didn't suck and then they did. Those things nice always. I'm doing some of what i wanna do. Great all right awesome. Awesome all right so so let's talk about you know about your craft about what what you do as far as you know your photography. What when did you. When did you start picking. When did you pick up a camera and really just develop your style pass so my dad gave me a pen. Tax like k. One thousand which is like a pretty standard thirty five millimeter camera. I was ten. He's an artist. So i've been exposed to that kind of stuff probably my holler. Definitely my life You know he didn't. I teach him to play baseball so that he could understand what was happening when i played sports like he's like that kind of so. I've been shooting for that long Vendors capacities you know It didn't really started taking shape as like a path forward. That's out of something. I was doing Until as in my late teens I play a lot of music. I have always led a lot of music. And i was in a band Several dan's grownup And at some point. I just started like digital photography started shooting. The show's absurd shooting. The vans kind of started entering into this music and fashion photography thing because india from jersey talks and so like the the music and like the fashion world very linked okay so like accidentally came fashion photographer through weird series of events To that for a few years. That is very different than what i do now. realized that i kinda hate it. You know i i. It was great. Because i was like seventeen and they really offered me tom on looking how much to hang out with a beautiful thing. Just have a good time but that industry didn't really work for me to work. I was making didn't really works for me. It wasn't really what was in me and so through that actually ended up going to school for photography. Like i did. My undergrad women. I think what i'll say. Twenty two or twenty three hundred work professionally for a few years as darker and so was less about what to do with the camera. More bella wayang at the camera and that came out of realizing that like i was more interested in the landscape and how we interact with the world. What that looks like relationship is with last gave. You know there's there's a lot of things that happened in the middle truncated version but Of that kind of just been pursuing that line of inquiry ever since visually. I ended up moving to oregon from new york after a while like i worked at a corporate start upsetting grow wild. It looks brand direction and create a directions of that and then realized that i was just telling people should. They didn't need the world of need that anymore. And moved oregon. It just kind of like cell back in love cameron. I fell back in the land. Run around kind of just doing active since As far as like my style on my development i feel like that's like consistent labor of love like actually like i'm still not one hundred percent would it all looks like these feel different has moved. And that's i mean that's part for me. You know like it's amazing. How much a change of sooner can do to like the way you attract the camera. It's like the way that i shoot right now. The desert is so much different in the way that i shot in oregon when i spent a month in the woods. It's like a completely different. And that's that's the fun part. You know cameras Interesting ally in the world. yeah no absolutely. I mean you've said it beautifully and my connection to the camera is it does make you look at the world in a more beautiful way. You don't take it for granted. I mean you see the beauty in the sunrise. The sunsets and like you know and especially i. I'm a big sunrise person. So it's like you know you're you're not a lot of people are still asleep and you're going to see nature away you know and it's and the camera and the camera captures that moment and that's the beauty of it. So what type of camera. So what type of camera do you use now to. i'm. I'm kind of weird place. Or i'm like inbetween setups. I have historically shot with cannons for ten years shot with a mark of five d mark or most recent ahead of five d mark to three. Seven of those. Who is in town can i. Can i try really hard to break it. And it just couldn't. Until i have recently switched over to sony which is really weird. Process is a miniature like everyone. Everybody but a lot of people are moving towards murless. It's it's got you know. I did it for the officials printing..
Jono Bacon On Creating People Powered Communities
"Maybe you are old enough to remember When teens hung out and so do the older generation who got their exercise their at the mall. Well as you are no doubt weh malls were dying long before the twenty twenty pandemic. Today they are on the last belabored breath. Do you care well unless you're big box store. Probably not but there was something about malls that went beyond shopping and that was community. People met in the food courts. People went for their excited. They were older. You know there was a place to hang out. There was a community that we gathered. the mo- community was very good for business but as malls disappear. How can we build communities that grow all businesses. Well that's exactly what we're going. See my guest on. Today's show john bacon. He is the also of an award. Winning book called powered. How communities can supercharge your business your brand and teams as well as four other books. John bacon is the leading community and collaborative speaker also and podcast. He is a columnist for forbes and open source dot com founder of the community leadership summit found of conversations with bacon and found of bad voltage. He is an advisor to alien vault. Molten data dot world microsoft open networking foundation and open cloud consortium. He works as a consultant with clients from setups like hacker joana manta most digital assets and others and major organizations like ink santander deutsche bank intel microsoft and a couple others so waiters and gentlemen. Please put your hands together. The is the most incredible intro. Think i've ever experienced on a podcast. Thank you very much to. I know we don't we scrub well. Welcome this is not nice w fit on the way to be lovely. Some of your listeners have no idea what wait so i guess on my show a long time ago in roland in is now but he he's an englishman to and he's also also from from yorkshire and we both work at human hacking conference together last year and they the the person who runs that conferences owns the conference was so an analyst accents that we could play. He wanted us to do ten minutes on stage. Just talking lancashire and yorkshire and that's what we did. Is this english. it's been a lot easier recently. I think when when when. I'd say i'm from i was born in yorkshire to say what does the accident. Now i can say. Game of thrones. Watch game of thrones and that's basically a northern accent that's true yes yeah popular virtue. Although both of us have gotten a little bit of a best is asian to away for a long time. Yeah exactly so general. One of the places. I'd like to start. The show is by asking. You know in this world of influences where. Everybody's an expert influence just look on instagram. Or if you don't know who is someone we might not know a might not even consider has been a major influence on you and on your leadership. Wow there's there's a few I mean one person that really kind of switched on a liable for me is Rory sutherland whose ogilvy Some years ago. I was not being. I've been working and building communities for awhile. One of things. I find fascinating about. This is the it's understanding. The the real deep motivations of why people make decisions why people collaborate together which obviously you spend a lot of time working on and i learned about behavioral economics. Through rory seventy didn't amazing tedtalk called confessions of an odd man and that really sent me down this rabbit hole of what is the role of psychology and how we come together as people and driving forces behind it. So he's definitely one person but you know as well i mean. Obviously seth godin is fairly well known but i the thing i like about seth. Godin isn't much. His teachings is more of his approach. His this fundamental focus on service that if you're of service to other people then good things will happen to you when you wave through everything that you do. I think great things happen
"jono" Discussed on Problematic Premium Feed
"Are you went to furniture as what it does. Is it kind of cascades. All of these tabs open ford you at it kind of does like fake shopping for you for twenty minutes to like forty minutes. So would you use facebook or would you use instagram. Or whatever Now it'll start thinking that that's the sort of advertisement that it will generate for you. So i like. Wow that's called track this yes called track this so let me ask you this. This instagram used stuff that you do outside of instagram to figure out who you are. Because i'm not looking at like walsall of ass outside of minor quirks. I i think probably since you're like no this is like you know what i mean. This is to guesstimate right now. But i think probably because you're new to up to the ecosystem as pobably suggesting stuff. That probably has a high high engagement. You know what i mean like. It captivates the attention more. You know what i mean so different does have high engagement because all this stuff is like tons of comments tons of Lights i mean. They're all like popular accounts for sure for sure. Yes my sense these saying that. Social media things If you do face shopping outside of the app it affects what happens you in the app and distinct takes there like i give you a prime example man like a Gonna have to use it again here shortly because a lot of like my dm's at a lot of the stuff that i searched on instagram is all like kind of like it. Because you know there's always a lot of like free drum pack said my sales on since and stuff like that especially like over the holiday there was always like matt black friday sales and that sort of stuff so i was like looking through a virtual instruments in that sort of stuff like from thanksgiving up until now and mike instagram. I caught on so now. It's like suggesting me. That stuff again. And i was like god. Damn it used to like suggests we like like high fucking whiskey and like shit for you. Know what i'd be like shit for like a dad or something like that because i think the one that i did on track this was like it was like healthy. Like forty fifty one or something like that so it was literally like. Oh you will like to like lisa house. Do you want a minivan. How about this whiskey and you and you know it's interesting i look i'm i'm gonna tell you something right. I look at my actual old instagram account at a personal instagram account for years. I just kind of stopped using in. I'm looking at the recommendations on that one now and this is the one that you know. I've actually actively used on for a while as all shoes food and more shoes like there's a lot of shoes in food on here in suits and things in things like that. And i can do. I can do a screen capture of of that and you can see what what it looks like right about the carriage. Instagram may right and then event. I'm going to switch. I'm gonna switch to my other. Account is the champion sharks. Run in is just nothing but girls are big boobs in big asses wall to wall in. Its that using the same browser for both you know what i mean like back and forth so an interesting is it because of Us the other account in the past. It saves all the shoes. And i'm just wondering 'cause privacy is fascinating to me that track this thing talking about basically it makes it seem like your history is falling you all through the internet and so yeah most most definitely the stuff because you know the i guess you could say the ecosystem unit for lack of a better word of like facebook. Instagram and whatsapp. You know what. I mean so all that sort of stuff. What's up not so much because it's like you know it's like an encrypted br crypt messenger. Yeah like what. You're searching for on facebook if you're if you're still like a facebook user you know i know that that's not like a lot of younger people are like facebook or whatever but Yeah the stuff that you're using the search bar if you still have the app bike running in the background at you use chrome or whatever you don't mean all of that stuff is all being collected by third parties in. They're selling it amongst And they're all selling it amongst each other. You know what. I'm saying in order to try to get now only you to spend more time in the app but also for them to get the analytics around what your actual shopping preferences are now. I don't use instagram on the chrome Browser when i do use it. Because i feel like it's not really made to really be used on a browser since to be really made to use the app that tracking happen on the phone to like you look at things on your browser on the phone and then you go to the instagram app. Or is that something mainly with the Desktop browser use. I sent you essentially a video to show you different personal thing and the champagne At the recommendations you can see how different they are a nice night in the. Yeah we have a look at it. Look at it now. Okay so yeah as dislike some nice shoes shoes through your shoes with food is shoes. Chicken and fode looks real. Nice okay at the account. Have wally tack kaka moly man. You see what. I'm talking about all that wise. Giving me that you gotta start. You gotta start using the search function matt. Just start searching. Yeah they start Start like just browsing all day to change the algorithm. It's just as tastic that's all throws at me in christ. Oh my god. I think it's probably using like some sort of like you know i sort of amorphous like generic data that it has for you dude. Because i think it's a count of very neutral like he's just said champion sharks and it has a photo of the logo and i don't remember if i told you that i'm male. I might have told her that. I male but yeah yeah i don't know maybe that's why it just gives me the lowest common denominator stuff because i think on instagram objectively speaking i think aspects of probably the most popular thing on instagram. So maybe that's what it's doing. i don't know. Yeah that's that would be my first assumption. Is that like. It's like gleaned that like you know what i mean. Is this like all eighteen to forty male. You know what i mean lives in the united states and this is like usually what gets the highest traction at attention like jesus christ like years. It's so funny because like mine is like night and day. It's like you know the good majority of mine because it's like you're loaded up bit about me right now. I'm obsessed professional wrestling so like the good majority of My instagram search. Tab is like clips from mike to thousands in the nineties embiid like independent wrestling and then like people who have fan pages for the wrestlers where they like collect their instagram stories in their snapchat. Stories that it's like this is what the rock did today or you know what i mean. They kind of put the clips together at shit and then memes the.
"jono" Discussed on Are Weeb There Yet?
"And then we see I didn't mention that because it wasn't relevant but there's like what she goes out is Maria. There's like two braids. There's the long straight black hair wig wage like a short like kind of manic pixie cut wig. So there's like two two standard outfits. She has when she goes out as Maria. So yeah, she'll smashing the picture frame and someone stops her and then it cuts to her dead. Customer area both Maria's Dragon China down the street and as channels like fighting at a whole fighting them the whole time and the whole time. She struggled remembers what you eat? She said about little Slugger cuz I get it was kind of like bring moment. And then run if she remembers that has they're like fighting the whole time in the street. We kind of get shots off like silhouetted shots of her we never get a broad shot of the whole scene. It's always either close up of one or two of the Maria's and then close up shot of Shadow struggling and then when we get the broadsheets, it's just a silhouette of just one person like wearing one of the Maria wakes like fighting themselves, it looks like so and then when she remembers what you eat you said a little Slugger appears right on cue off and attached jono and right as he's flying up on her, you know, she still wet and dark and then as it gets closer her face lights up and she's she's she's wearing the long Maria wig that falls off. With the other Maria wig underneath but she also has just like clown makeup on like it looks like grease paint like make up at this point and right when she gets attacked cuts off.
"jono" Discussed on The Remarkable Leadership Podcast
"All usual <Speech_Male> booksellers <Speech_Male> People powered <Speech_Male> how communities can supercharge <Speech_Male> a business brandon teams <Speech_Male> published by Alpe <Speech_Male> Collins Leadership <Speech_Male> it's available in <Speech_Music_Male> hardback <Speech_Male> audible. <Speech_Male> I read it and <Speech_Male> An E book. <Speech_Male> Check <Speech_Male> that out <Speech_Male> My website is <Speech_Male> John. BACON DOT <Speech_Male> COM J. O. <Speech_Male> N. O.. BACON <Speech_Male> DELICIOUS MEAT <Speech_Male> DOT COM. And because I have such <Speech_Male> a stupid name <Speech_Male> that tends to <Speech_Male> be my handle much of <Speech_Male> the social media networks <Speech_Male> such as twitter and facebook although <Speech_Male> instagram <Speech_Male> some <Silence> cad <Speech_Male> stole <Speech_Male> my name and so I'm <Speech_Male> John Obey Can Graham <Speech_Male> on instagram. <Speech_Male> which sounds ridiculous <Speech_Male> but <Speech_Male> I don't really use <SpeakerChange> instagram is? I <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> had another very <Speech_Male> interesting connection. <Speech_Male> I <Speech_Male> ask guest <Speech_Male> Whose in <Speech_Male> maybe you may know her? <Speech_Male> Her name is <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> Sally Hogshead <Speech_Male> <SpeakerChange> so it <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> said <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> right and <Speech_Male> Jono <Speech_Male> Bacon <Speech_Music_Male> have both <Speech_Male> on the no. <Speech_Male> Hey <Speech_Male> Mike Sausage is gonna come <Speech_Male> in <SpeakerChange> the future. <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> Hey everybody <Speech_Male> before <Speech_Male> rushing for all of you <Speech_Male> who are watching and listening <Speech_Male> and that is now what <Speech_Male> we're going to do <Speech_Male> with this. Hopefully <Speech_Male> you found this entertaining meeting <Speech_Male> and enjoyed it as much <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> as I did but <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> the point is not really <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> that this I mean <Silence> <Advertisement> there are other more <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> entertaining. <Speech_Male> PODCAST <Speech_Male> THIS <Speech_Male> CAST is meant <Speech_Male> to inform mm-hmm <Speech_Male> and <SpeakerChange> inspire <Speech_Male> you <Speech_Male> to take action. Hope <Speech_Male> that you'll do that. Think <Speech_Male> back about what you got. <Speech_Male> I heard all sorts <Speech_Male> of things I made. All sorts <Speech_Male> of notes <Speech_Male> about things <Speech_Male> In terms of <Speech_Male> how do we engage <Speech_Male> our own <Speech_Male> folks in <Speech_Male> terms of thinking about <Speech_Male> the difference between <Speech_Male> team in community <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> around the importance <Speech_Male> of creating a sense of belonging <Speech_Male> along along <Speech_Male> with all of the other <Speech_Male> very more tactical <Speech_Male> specific things <Speech_Male> that we talked about. What <Speech_Male> are you going to do and take <Speech_Male> action on as a result <Speech_Male> of having <Speech_Male> been? That's certainly my <Speech_Male> hope for <Speech_Male> you. So <SpeakerChange> John Thanks <Speech_Male> for being here it was. <Speech_Male> It was a <Speech_Male> real pleasure. <SpeakerChange> Yeah thank <Speech_Male> you so I think signed me on <Speech_Male> all right. It was a pleasure <Speech_Male> so everybody before we go. <Speech_Male> We'd love to have <Speech_Male> joining this conversation. <Speech_Male> You can get updates. You <Speech_Male> can have handed how this <Speech_Male> podcast <Speech_Male> evolves you can even tell <Speech_Male> you WanNa want us to <Speech_Male> have on <Speech_Male> the show. You can do that <Speech_Male> by joining our <Speech_Male> facebook group <Speech_Male> slash community <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> on facebook. Just <Speech_Male> go to remarkable podcast <Speech_Male> dot com forward slash <Speech_Male> facebook to join <Speech_Male> us there. And <Speech_Male> we'll be back next week <Speech_Male> again with <Speech_Male> another episode of <Speech_Music_Male> the remarkable <SpeakerChange> leadership <Music> <Advertisement> podcast. <Music>
"jono" Discussed on The Remarkable Leadership Podcast
"The third era was where because everyone's walking around with cell phone in their pocket now An eighty five percent of millennials Daniels's got cell phones now companies won't have digital experiences so any parent is listening to this. Who bought toy recently will know that there's a Qr Code on the back? You have to scan to install the APP on your phone is a companion night with a toy but this is all broadcast and I think what we're seeing is kids growing up in social environment with social technology at best and gets tips. They want a social relationship not just with their friends and their families but with these brands wild and the reason for that again gets back to the psychological is the the fundamental human beings one sense of belonging it's we strive right now. Companies families in our communities. We want to do what that's meaningful science is defined as it's like. There's a lot of behavioral economics research around the value of doing work. That's meaning is the reason why people join political campaigns. The reason why people join charities is the reason why the people are incredibly passionate about the products associates provided that companies. So but as I mentioned it's it's hard to build this and that's why I really wanted to to write a book that kind of provides. It's a simple way through enough so when I think about the book I think about think about three three dunks and there's more to the book than this. But if I if I were to have you think about this share with this I think that there is there is There's three pieces. There's like the front end value. There's the strategic. I think you call it. The Bacon method somewhat tongue in cheek. But he I know has one of the benefits. A stupid last name is that you can call. Listen I love it. I practically any comment about making as A. He grew up on a pig farm. I promised I meant about it but I just want you. That's okay I yeah yeah. I'm just saying that it's awesome. It's I'm going to say and so the value proposition strategic and method and then the and business integration. And I want you to sort of if you can sort of talk about those three things obviously a- during this conversation people aren't gonNA leave totally equipped up to do the stuff but if we can help lay that out for people I think it will be very helpful. And then we'll then we'll kind of go to that around the so what's for us as leaders and especially leaders inside inside of organizations. Yeah so let's sort of lay that groundwork for Scania. Yeah sure so. The as I mentioned I like to zoom all the way out and and One of the big mistakes think a lot of businesses make a lot of leaders make. Is they get wound up in all of the tactics in the details and they forget the reason. Why The doing the work that they're doing and miss it doesn't justify the community applies to everything so right way? That's the third. I think everyone who's watching. You're listening to third time that that you've said that the idea of zooming out and you talk about the book a lot and I actually think that if people would read the book and that's the only big idea that they really got. It was going to write the book I know. That's it's not why you wrote it and there's way more but that idea in of itself is incredibly valuable to many people spending too much time down in it. You can't see right or is when you're looking at the tree. It's difficult because I think you get kind of people who only spend time making powerpoint decks and looking at vision and then you get people who only spend time walling aligned in the in the wades and I think we need both so the way I the approach that I've developed over the years is that the first thing we do. Is we identify. What is the mission of the community mission is really really important? Because again people like to do what is meaningful so we need to excite people around why this joined the community what they can get out of it and then what we do is the next level is we say what is the value proposition for the individual. You WanNa bring into your committee and fear organization. You have to start with the individual. What are they going to get at? What's why should they take time away? From their families the friends net flicks to spend time in your community what are they gonna get are very selfishly very specifically then what does your organization get out. So for example that committee member get may fail to solve their problems bill to increase the value of the products that they using the for example. The company makes May Other People Apple Network have fun is as well and then if your organization might be low Support cost broader brand awareness. Better engagement more referrals. All those kinds. Thanks then what I like to do is to then caveat your persona so different people behave in different ways and engage in different ways so personas to me of participation in the community. Do you want people to provide support and guidance create documentation make videos organize events right software. Translate your product. These are always which community members can participate and what we do is I develops call the Community Participation Framework and essentially you pick heck a couple of those personas the most important to define. What incentivizes them? What motivates them whether they read material how do we find them? Because for example the way we should design a thing some looks very different to the way in which and then genetics and works and and and as with other personas as well so then what we do is we're applying the value culturally to the type of people we wanna bring in and then what we do is the community. Participation Framework is broken into two broad paces. The first thing we do is we pick one one of those personas when we we onboard them so they generate a bit of value for them so for example for somebody's providing support in your community. How do they find a question in an answer it And that goes through you. Know How do they have the tools. How do they learn the skills but importantly the last bit of the on ramp is? How do we validate that contribution? And how do we make it. Gratifying for them. Because that's really important if we don't validate that they did something then. They'll think that it was unrecognized. They'll move on and do something else. And at that point the target persona has generated a bit of value for them which is also valuable to the community now we need to make them sticky and this three phases of a community journey this casual casual regular in coal so when you when you join a community just like joining a new company or joining in you and you group of any kind of group. You feel a bit weird and you stick out like a sore thumb and you don't really know what's going on this bit of Imposter Syndrome. You don't really know anyone awkward. And we'd so mentoring and guidance and providing people with with the things to do is a good way to engage with casual members then as they participate more and more and they build a habit and how it usually takes around sixty six days scientifically to to Tattoo stick. They then become become regulars and at that point is all about making making the community simple efficient giving people the right kind of information and in a small group of those regulars will become core. These are the people who don't care about their own Pontus patient care about the broader health of the community. Those your rockstars An an you WanNa make sure that as they go through this journey they are incorporated in how you shape the community. They're not just consumers. They are helping you to make the committee better. Because all of the experiences in your community members heads Can Make Your community better the wing which we move people through that casual to regulate. Let's call us with incentives were really incentivize -able creatures like it's we collect airline miles. We collect coffee stamps You know we work on from bonuses forever forever exactly just new with starbucks scarred and a frequent flyer miles yeah and it really works. We I mean we collect video game trophies. Pro Face And what we do is we layer all of these little incentives that keep people moving forward keeps the experience interesting and you know essentially what the book walks through his how to do all of that. And and at a high level of district level and also how you break into a project plan like. I walked through in the book. How to write this into an annual plan and to break that down into courtly objectives is it's not just like a bunch of high level waffle which is a annoys me about a lot of business? Books is a couple of principles. You walk away away night okay. I learned three things. And that's it and that's worth my twenty five dollars whatever so you know that's kind of the strategic patience Jason Book before it gets into the integration pieces. Yeah so and then you talk about you know you call you talk about business integration and I think will listening certainly if they knew listen to the first three or four minutes community building. They're thinking about sort of external stuff and yet one of the things that's happening. Now how is it is organizations thinking about the idea of community inside of Yeah Organization. So I want you to talk about that but first I'm going to channel my inner listener. Who if you're going to talk about internal? Then what's the difference between a community and a team right. Yeah that's a good it's a it's a good it's A. It's a great question Listener so the way I would look at it as a team is a is a a bucket of people within a broader group right so an organization. Let's save one hundred employees and you've got five teams right right and they'll be different names of people in each of those different teams. There'll be a culture that exists in the broader group in the community and then the individual cultures that will exist in those teams And they'll be in jokes gnomes and and all this kind of stuff so one of the challenges a lot of companies particularly organizations face as they grow is is they fall onto these groups And then these teams become silos and they don't interact with each other as well and they have a slow time to market You Get wit eighteen politics and dynamics filming and while they executives are often have a healthy goal set goals for what they want to do in the business and the people on the ground do often that middle management management layer can be a function around culture and some middle managers will just absolutely refuse to break those silos because it's becomes a fiefdom I'm not throwing all middle managers. Under the bus here. All executives oppose it happens a lot in businesses so one of the benefits of communities. Is that a community is basically at least facilitating healthy collaboration across different groups and across different teams So you know if you have a community and they've got you know People people who run events and people who who provide support people great content. And all this kinda stuff. The best communities have a free flow of information between those different teams it forces people to think in a non silos kind of way while respecting the coach within them. So when I wrote people powered I would say probably around. Half of of the clients I work with is a consultant. A lodge companies. Who Want to break? These internal silent wants to build better team culture not just because they want to have a faster time to market but because they want to reduce toxicity between teams but frankly they have to do that to be able to continue growing continue hiring because a more efficient competitive pets is gonna eat your lunch and people don't want to go and work in a cube in a business where the ham did that to do list. Young people don't WanNa do that anymore. they they want to go and work in an organization where they can have influence where they can play a role. But you've got a scope that influence out carefully and make sure that it can be managed by Econ just allow allow your employees to run free rein at the fair. There's probably right right right exactly. So communities inside the businesses the festival of this was was kind of digital transformation and organizational design. And a lot of you know plastic head consultants would go in there and produce powerpoint decks..
"jono" Discussed on Arrested DevOps
"To speak right like so he's like hey while we're figuring in this out we're going to be a little more restrictive if that's the case but wherever it might be right 'cause it's a lot easier and people are much more pleased with getting a surprise. Yes then then a surprise no later. Hey guess what turns out you're like Oh that's great other than hey guess. What turns out strangely strangely? That doesn't go over so well. Yeah I won't take a couple couple minutes to to think about The idea around measurement. Because we we you know we we love us some data you know in this world And also the reason I kind of want to think about like how we measure effectiveness activeness An impact of the community is that I'm a big believer that right And kind of you know leading with with with giveaway right like incentives drive behavior which drives culture right but also people will work to the metrics. You give them and so we want and and I'm finding saying when people say what's the most important devops book to read. I say go read freakonomics and go learn about incentives in economics. And we'll tell you everything you know about culture change so thinking about that measurement mattering. What are some some practical and useful measurements that will affect the behavior of our community but then also affect the behavior of our organization in a way a help build community right and then maybe what are some wants to avoid? That are maybe a common to ample think Arash Brash and good but actually might not be so so fantastic neapolis a great question so I think I think we need to slice this. First of all by the next weighing what she measure for example suffer engineering is very different the wing she'd measure say design contributions to a community. Okay So the first thing we do is we identified the personas that we targeting and then and then identify one of the most relevant metrics that we choose for each now from a strategic approach. The thing that people should absolutely avoid is this current data fetishism trend happening where people are sitting metre trick like dashboards with hundreds of graphs that track every conceivable notion. That's a complete waste of time. Like focus on what are what are the things that you want to discover about your community unity And then track the things that most relevant to that discovery so for example. Let's look at Software Engineering people contributing code to an open source project Basically within that there's two types of data the contract there is intangible and there's tangible value values tangible value is the things that people do commend with Computers Software Engineering. I would be tracking for example the number of pull requests that being submitted The average time for Request to be reviewed emerged in. I'd be tracking time to the responsible request. I'd be doing some of the things for issues. Shoes like number of issues submitted time to fess response for an issue average life span of an issue I'd be trying the different issue types light with labels and You know how many for example wishlist pieces coming in. How many confirmed bugs coming in and getting in and getting fixed So those are very tangible things that we can track in places like get hub and get lab and elsewhere But what that does is that. Basically a within that persona of suffer engineering that gives us a sense of being able to track suffer engineering And community participation among that the intangible value of communities of the things that you can't trump easily with computers such as a people happy they having having fun They learning are they meeting New People and generally the best way to track phase. Frankly is through good community marriages ages. Who can observe behavior and to be able to track it in a somewhat manual way And it's difficult because there basically is no perfect way to track intangible the heavy and not yet in when the the bog eventually gets built. Maybe that can help with it The thing is with each metric. I think what you want to track is the two types of wave looking I think a metric one is An action which is doing something so such as submitting Request we can track how many requests submitted and that gives us a sense of how many people are contributing. But that doesn't tell us anything about quality because someone may submit to pull request crap. So the validation for the action and within the context of a pull requests for example would be it being reviewed. Emerged it so. I think it's always good to actually track the action and then to track the validation of the action as well So again break it down into the into the zone. Is that you look you that you're looking at the thing I would recommend. People don't track is is tracking repetition of the same thing over and over again so for example in in days of old people would often have in if you hit this many posts on the forum. Five hundred posts than you get added to this you know. Special ranking Because is what that does to your appointment it incentivizes people to then post lots of stuff And if that is crap then people get to the ranking and they appear to to be smart people but they're actually not just you know very repetitive paypal. At so that's how I would appreciate it very much. Like like pick five things. The key thing with metrics is the front works very very well is the way in which communities evolve and grow in which we should make them better. Is You pick your five metrics all ten metrics for example and then on a regular cadence. Let's say once a week once a month go and look at those metrics and try to look at the patterns that you're seeing them right so for example if you see The time to I request with pull requests at the time I respond. Sapporo quests is gradually getting slower since Particular date look. What's changed in your community around that time like could it be? Summer is summertime. And that's the reason why slowing slowing down Could it be that. There's a lot of what goes on on a new release a slowing down so look for those parents because that will tell you what changes you need to make commute saying. I wanted to think about when we're building a community or enhancing community or just being focused on a community for some kind of role where we're community focused wanted to think about some of the ways that we can think about Personas that aren't us so I know there's if you're if you're a professional well and this is what you do all the time then. There's probably should be something you know how to do. But maybe not everybody is is a professional community manager or something I think about instances offenses in different communities. I've been a part of different tools. We've built that that have a community aspect and for example it might be like. Hey we're building this thing. It should have a sheriff share it on facebook button right and then the engineers. Why don't use facebook facebook stupid so like? I don't think we need to integrate with facebook right like an so. How do we kind of? There's so many different possible ways when that comes in so if we're if again we're not Microsoft. Were not a very large or red hat. We're not this large organization that has focused focused people. But maybe we're trying to build a community around a smaller organization Not necessarily a project could be a project or could even be like you gave the example like devops have ops right of way a similarly minded practitioners. And we're trying to do that. How do we keep on top of all the different ways? Personas might work because they're different than we are. Yeah it's a great. It's a great question you you're full of 'em today so I think the UH diffult of these elements that play into this One of the big challenges building communities is it can seem a little bit overwhelming overwhelming right. There's a lot to do is think about here Without wishing to just chill my book. That's one of the reasons why I wrote. People powered is to provide a relatively straightforward kind of blueprint and recipe for how people can take all of this and organize it in that brains and Organiz in their lives I think the most important thing to do is is to getting to a workflow of how you Organiz so for example I was trying to someone on last week. Here is a community director of the company that I'm working with And she was panicking because this just so much to do and she just fell overwhelmed by it. All so what we did is we basically broke it down into like a big list of tactics that she needs to focus on and then we break it down by quarter and then what happens is you can basically say okay. If it's in quarter kyu-won we'd have to worry about it right now. We're thinking we've got a plan that's in that is in the plan but we can focus on what we're doing in Q.. Four right now so I think that's one element is just being organized. And that's difficult because they're quite disciplined to put together a plan and again what this people power to do that but the second thing I think is is the best way to understand people who are different to us is to talk to them is to get their input but we have to be again again. Intentional about US intention. Intentional intentionally is is a is a coal theme throughout all the work that I do an all the writing that I focus on is is let's say for example building a community of Translated and you don't really know anyone who's a translator but you know that people would be interested and could be helpful full in translation your project into a whole bunch of different languages. I would put in your calendar a regular meeting with different translators. Who are in your community just to say? Hey how things going completely open ended. I'm here to listen like what's working well for you. What's not working well few to tease that information? Because all of the all the answers to how to to do this kind of stuff well live in your audiences brains. They're all it's all there. We just need to figure out ways of of teasing it out and the way to not do that as a general rule is through surveys Surveys are good. That can give you some data but I think generally people are much more willing to give you more valuable able content if you basically helping a call them and ask them but again it requires bean to say like I want you to tell me why we can improve just saying like. Can you give me some feedback. They'll just tell you good stuff but saying I want you to tell me where we can make a big difference in this And it takes time and eventually what happens is you will. We'll build those skills and you'll understand those people better but that's one of the reasons why often say to companies wanting to stay in power. It is to start simple. You know the worst thing you can do is to set up. Aridi big complicate community to start simple and then again track the day to the the limited set of metrics feel instead of personas and then gradually bit by bit the pictures sexual just start becoming clearer. It'd be like seeing the sailboat. One of those magic eye pictures will gradually come into view. And then before you know you'll be a pro fantastic tastic while I will show your book. So the book is people powered how communities can separate charge. Your Business Brandon teams will put some links in the show notes to where you could grab it. Those will be at arrested..
"jono" Discussed on Arrested DevOps
"They have I mean the two moonshot shots kind of overused these days but the sheet into something. That's much bigger so building mission around what you're trying to do here. So let's say a project that's focused on continuous integration saying We are going to build the most powerful effective collaborative continuous integration community. We can Itself will get people excited than yeah. We're just talking about continuous integration. Right so that's one piece. The second piece I think is when the way communities typically work and I I walk through this people powders I think of them as a journey right. So what happens is very briefly as you find your personas. You onboard them to help them to do something really interesting as quickly as possible. And then they enter into a three phase journey first of all they start out as casual members so the kind of show up from time to time a a maybe answer question. They do something but that pretty spotty in terms of how they participate and they don't really know anyone bitten. Ah this they have some levels of imposter syndrome Rome when they it's kind of jumps into their mind. Then what happens is the mole value that they experience in the community then become regulars. They're showing up most most days. They've probably got a browser tab open with your community most of the time that participating more more the getting to know people it's feeling more like home and then a small number of people will become what I refer to as call members who OSU super passionate about everything that you did in the community wants it to be successful so festival. I think what you WanNa do is generally encouraged people to go through that journey. Which incentivisation is the best thing to basically get people to continue through that journey centralization violation of mentoring but then when people poke in the head above the surface and they clearly interested in what you're doing and spending time in the community and you just recognize the name more more is asked them to do things? It's amazing if you ask somebody you'd have pressured them. Bully them but you say hey. Would you be interested in helping out with this. This it's amazing. What people will do because so many of us? Just want to be helpful I'll give you a concrete example. The high us with so many different communities disease is content already fiber this way to pull people into new communities right you put it on your blog. He put out on social media and people read it. I find interesting and they come into your community munity but content is expensive to produce. If you're a company you gotta get your staff to build in so one of the things I have to do. It is sit down. Create a plan of things you love to talk about with content. It could be tutorial as you could be. Demo is it could be events and then just reach out to your community members and say hey. Would you be interested in writing something about this. We'll do some editing. We'll give you some guidance will will help will and will promote social media. Networks will recognize you. You the offer will use your twitter handle. We'll hear from that. It's amazing how many people will do that. You just got to ask. I think that's that's really interesting. I was I was sort of doing a little bit of some mental notes around that that idea of inviting people outside of your organization to contribute that content. And I think it. It doesn't doesn't occur to us. That's the thing you can do. And then it makes total vocalise numbers like that makes total sense to me. If somebody asked me to do I would probably do that that you know but and I wonder if part of that is is Baby with doesn't occur to us because Number one maybe like we don't think people would do that. 'cause we're basically asking them to work for free you know even though that's not what there's more nuance to it than that might be. What's in our head is like well? We pay people to do that. So why would somebody do it for free. Well Hey people to be software engineers but they still contribute to open source and then on the other side it could also also be like. I wonder how you kind of and I don't WanNa go down this rabbit hole but go down the path of like within your legal and PR of your organization like if you're like if those are things that sometimes make people get concerned about having outside folks folks folks are not employees. Oh yeah contributing you know and I know to be logically. It makes no sense to be worried about that. But I'm not a lawyer at a company erased rice anywhere for that matter Is that something that you see actually being a challenger as it may be just perceived. Yeah Oh my God. This is going to be this legal nightmare Dan. Yeah definitely I mean. An it varies some companies the company. So you know. Startups usually have much less anxiety around this because there's a bit of a all right. Everyone Raleigh sleeves up. Let's dig in and see what we can do. But when you start getting into bigger companies and especially ones that aw aw that have a a strong level of legal influence right This could be a problem. We need to get away in our industry from putting lawyers in decision making Roles like this drives me policy Where you work on something? It could be a piece of content. It could be an event and then basically Lawyers take a look at it and they say well yeah. We probably shouldn't do this. We shouldn't publish this because there is legal. Risk attached crashed. And I'm and I'm looking at a milk in a bowl your listeners with a fifteen minute rant without breathing about this but to summarize it lawyers lawyers are not incentivized to let things through their incentive is to reduce risk and what's the best way of reducing risks doing nothing so You know I it can be a real. It can be a real problem. I think there is a fair in. Some organizations of a companies are very most companies even like very modern silicon valley companies. Where with very modern kind of remote working and unlimited PTO and all those different programs? There are still fundamentally structures of humans. Right there it's it's a hierarchy you've got to an executive team you got a senior management saying these people who you have. Dora reporting People of Ghana contract got expectations. Around the what they're doing. So when you start bringing the community into the mix and you start saying the wing which we build a great community is community has access to our teams and the community can can provide the CAN. Be a stakeholder that can provide a level of influence wins That can weed people out and I think the key thing I would say to companies. Is You not giving any control tio community. What you're saying is this way GonNa treat you more like equals? We're not gonNA treat us the subservient group of people out there who you know chew on the grill that we give them. We can APP Open up opportunities for dialogue and for participation and when you do that when you create a more collaborative environment shocker people WanNa be more collaborative like they're willing to do things like this if you have a very one way environment where you have the company and your customers and they get what you give them. They're going to be less likely to play a role in this unless unless they can get something out of it like people will often produce content for companies. If they feel like they're going to get a lot of exposure like if a if Microsoft comes to you and says I if you write something we'll post it on our social media networks. Most people would do it because they loved the exposure but All of these problems uh-huh can be can be can be a Nova a lot of this. I think is about setting very clear expectations about. Where does the line get drawn between what the community can? I can't do that. Goes right into something else. I wanted to talk about where we think about this. I think is coming up a lot more lately. especially with what kind of the folks using open source as a business model and that's a whole other conversation about not that's always fun. Isn't it right. But if we think think about that we think about There's a lot of stories a lot of examples of yes Open source something that starts out as an open source project and then it becomes a company and that's great. Maybe I don't know I'm not GonNa make a judgment about that I've worked for some of them so I shouldn't say anything bad but but then it becomes it's kind of you can have this really strong community around the open source project and the now it becomes project right. Yeah and then you start to have all the things things you just were talking about about now folks who felt like they had a voice in what this wise maybe have less of one. You've got lawyers saying what you can and can't do and sounding like the chief no officer so when we think about that if we if we want to putting aside for a moment whether or not you should turn your great open source project into open into Project Inc.. If you're going to what are some of the things to kind of keep in mind. We already touched on that. And and maybe A. Let's talk about some folks who maybe have done that well like. I don't WanNa talk about people that did it poorly Yes but let's talk about maybe some good examples also that we can not necessarily copy but learn from. Yeah it's a great question I think so much of this as well as many other things in life or just about setting very clear expectations One of the mistakes that I think some Organizations go to make when they go down this path is that the worried about pissing off their community. So what they do is they tacitly agree to everything And I think it's it's okay to say this is where we're drawing the line on these different things and if you don't like that that's completely fine. Reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements comments. But it's better to set those expectations upfront. And then people on the same page right. I have to say this with people who I work with Of being a consultant is is. I ended up working with you know senior senior people in the company I ended up working with the people on the ground in the work and sometimes difficult feedback needs to be transmitted between these two different groups and and Or difficult commentary of what's going on and As a consultant. I have an opportunity to do that. And where are the people would feel uncomfortable doing through an internally and often say people draw the Piss you off now than Piss you off in six months so let's have a conversation about this deal with it let's rectify find good outcome and go from that so the first mind is. It's really important to separate clear expectations around the code affiliation. How came in going to operate particularly from an open source sauce project to having a company that's wrapped around it? Typically what that means is a company is now going to be formed. It's going to be the primary investor in that we see many examples of this. That's right red hat canonical. Hashi Corp are all good examples of this setting very clear expectations. Upfront is one piece. And I think regularly building a dialogue with your community and being explicit about saying we want to hear the things aren't going well like one of the things I try to do not just again with communities but just in my career in general is to say to people. I don't WanNa hear about what I'm doing things. Well like people often heat praising praising someone but to say like don't tell me that I suck but tell me where can I improve. Give me constructive feedback and often. What happens is companies? Don't do that. They don't say either in a public setting or in a private setting. What can we do to improve? So what happens is frustration builds up in the community. The company doesn't say it and then it results in a giant kind of Seismic events someone writes a letter someone Puts out a video. Something along those lines so the companies. I think do the best job here. What they do is they build that? In the same way that mentioned with a collaborative model with the type they built a very inclusive collaborative environment. Arman said they have openness you track and they have open code They have regular meetings with community members. It's not just the community member at community demands being an ambassador to the community like engine is feeding in product people feeding in the CEO of the company is a member of that community to And that pre proactive active about about communication and about setting expectations around what the company is working on. What the company's not working on and I think I mean I mentioned a few examples Eliana? Think how she caught a fantastic example of doing this really. Well I think in many cases docker has done a good job with this Microsoft's are increasingly good at this red hat in a phenomenal job of this Maximus to a great job of this as well An- but it's a delicate balance and in small all companies. It tends to be easier particular when people come from a background because as seeing good about examples of this or it gets more difficult is when a company grows and you start hiring people outside of open. Sausages salespeople people product people support people. You need to make sure you set those expectations very clearly upfront. And I think one of the best companies do that. It's been red hat. They've done an amazing job in training. Non Open Open source people in in helping them to understand the open source nuance. I was thinking about when you talked about setting the expectations upfront. And like you said. I'd rather disappoint you now than than later it brought to mind you know. Solomon Hikes. Great comment that. He was the first rule of open. Sources that you know no is temporary yeses forever right so if we're so if in the beginning for saying hey you don't have a seat at this particular table. We can always give view the seat later but if we give you the seat now.
"jono" Discussed on Arrested DevOps
"What are some of the ways to kind of and then how do you bring all that stuff together too because this is this is one way you say like send information through one channel or Senate through multiple channels? Okay fine so I need to send an email and post to black. I need to put up a read me or whatever but we're talking. We're talking about communities in collaboration. It's not this half duplex one way communication. It was so so if we want to save we kind of buy into this idea that we have to reach people where they are according to their preference. What are some of the ways that we can kind kind of get some eventual consistency around that right you have you gave an example of having different communities with different personas but what about when we kind of slice those levels where there's different personas and they're not all necessarily working in the same? I don't know if there's a good way to solve this. I'm curious to hear what you which is a great. It's a it's a great question I mean and it's it's tricky one of the trickiest elements of building communities as you have in many cases a really diverse range of have constituents Your members that you want to attract and you basically have to make a series of hard decisions around one of the platforms and the methods that we're going to use to bring those people together so there's a couple of things I think the irrelevant to this question. One is is is is the value of defining those personas Is the IT gives you a sense of you. You can crisply articulate. What kind of places these people are going to hang out? And also where do they consume. Information what motivates them. What what what rewards do they like? what are their fears. What are the what are the motivators And when he can define that crisply and you can say okay. These are the target personas that I've got than it makes these other decisions much easier. So for example one of the things I walked through people powders different types of Persona Zona such as you know in the you know kind of in the In the devops world for example you would have you have. For example people consuming technology people do in suffer engineering people working on operations. You'd have people producing documentation. People organizing prevents people do entr providing translations and things such as that e can't possibly attract all of these people at the same time you have to make difficult decisions with the community with the most critical the people who we want to focus on and then the way I was recommended is the first thing to decide is what our communication channels GonNa be and this is in itself a complicated subject. But I'll I'll still still in a few sentences I I'll try to. At least one is I basically believe that. This does two types of communication out that I refer to as structured and unstructured communication attention so structured communication is what you have a very specific discussion about a very specific outcome. So for example that could be a bug report or a an issue and get up or get get lap right when you go into an issue get get home. I'll get lab. There's no hey how was your weekend. It's how do we fix this specific thing. Well how do we implement. This specific feature Vega the same kind of thing happens in stock. Exchange Duck overflow Someone asks a question and then you get a very specific answer so you don't get a lot of humor. You don't don't get tend to get a lot of kind of social kind of collaboration. All Social Exchange in these kinds of mediums. They're very functional in nature but that very high-value in nature so the first thing is to decide one of the things that irrelevant deal community Vaso for example for a typical open source project would have I would recommend issues. Go into Jio. Issue trackers such as get up a Jira or get lab And then you may have for example a specific place where people can ask questions now. unstructured communication in is everything else. It's where people talk about. The overall project took about the work that they're doing have brought a conversations This is why we get into areas such as discourse and forums. Rooms are we get into slack and Maximo psoriasis or rocket chat all Disgu- all these different different platforms. You can basically divide those kinds of unstructured structure platforms into both short term and long term memory. And this is a term that I've stolen from Jeff Atwood who created this Golsen stuck stuck exchange and the challenge with platforms like slack. And Massimo's is that it's almost impossible to find previous discussions right. Anyone who claims that can do this is lying to you. They claim that they can train signed that slack claim for example that they're the search is is really good. It's better but it's still very difficult to use in that regard So the challenge with that is that while while real time chat is very high. It's very gratifying. Because you can go and have a conversation right now with somebody. The problem is that it's a transient. It depends on who's news online at that time and be it's very costly because if I for example go into a channel and say Hey Matt I WanNa ask you a question about this you provide the answer. It's almost it's almost impossible for somebody else to go. and find that previous discussion. If somebody's got the same question that I've got And to be able to read your response so that means that the niece answered the question the second time and that can be a real problem. So the benefit of structured communication such as Sorry unstructured communication channels with long term memory emory such as discourse and forums is that it's much easier to reuse previous discussions in collaboration. You can go and find it much more easily in the same way that that you can go in to get home and you can go and find previous issues You need that. I think. Restructured communicate free unstructured communication. And I think even even more like it was interesting. Like you said You Having to you know I think we've all had that experience of answering the same question over and over again in. Something like slacker matter. Most because people don't you know it's so hard to find it but even if it was even if they The the answer to the question is not all of the value right so like right that have had this long conversation with multiple people all with lots of different input on how this how we arrived at that and that that particular encapsulation of the answer to that question has intrinsic value by itself. And next time you ask that so like it could be that you asked me a question and I answered it and then five or six different people chime in on it and there's a whole conversation and there's a lot the ballot months later. Somebody else has the question I answer it and they just got the answer so I've been seeing that a lot in a lot of slack communities I'm and when I find myself actually I find myself going back and trying to find the old threads for when I answer the question again to say. Go look back at this whole conversation and it's very very cumbersome to your point right like it's a lot easier if you can go back and then someone can participate and kind of bring that threat up again. Even if it's in the long long term memory kind of model. It's one of the reasons why he's one of the reasons why I'm a big fan of Of If for example one of the things I love about this is that you can use a plugging cold solved wet. Someone can go to ask a question and then you can have a discussion thread that that happens. And then maybe the answer is the sixteenth post down there and you can mock that as the answers us. That means that somebody who just wants the utilitarian I wanNA find the response to my question. Him they can go and what happens is that the answer is placed immediately under the question on the topic. So it's very useful in that regard and then you l. of do the Google juice so people can go and find on those people. Don't go to websites now to look for crayons they type into Google duck duck go where they find things But the thing I like about it is because it's more of a discussion people can't have conversations and get the extra value that you're talking about. They can explore. What's going on around that question? As opposed hosted one of the challenges with platforms like stack with stock exchange or. Ask Ball which is an open source. Equivalent is against very kind of like utilitarian military and you provide the onset. See you don't really build community You build you build value your bill community. And that's one of the reasons why I think slack has been so successful successful is you can actually have nice interesting conversations with people you know you can actually get snow each other. You can say how how the kids your weekend and I think discourse and platforms uh-huh like that are a nice middle ground between those. I have a lot of other questions about that but I'm GonNa put a pin in them for a second because this is going to be forty five minutes. Let's talk about what slack community man could be a whole other show but I so I want to spin off on something you talked about different personas and you talked about the idea of communities these having champions right and I know this is something when we think about organizations who are built trying to build community this this is something they really want right. The this is a good measure. This is a good this is. We'll be like having an advocate having a champion. So if we want to. And it doesn't so have to be for a company could be for project for whatever but if for some reason I have a desire to have more of these or elevate them or kind of discover them and help help promote that behavior. What are some things to keep in? Mind when we're when we're saying this is important to us to have these advocates or these champions. How I don't WanNa so how do you create them? Because I don't know that you can create like you know But how do you enhance. How do you kind of discover? The champions pins that are already. There may be a way to think about it. Yeah there's a there's a few. I think interesting things wrapped up in that question. So I think NCUA one hundred percent right matt you you can't create these people Advocates they spring up because they're excited because they're interested rested And because they're passionate about what it'd be okay. He's focused on what I think we can do. And what projects can do is is to facilitate those advocates more effectively. The wing which I think we advocates to manifest themselves is first of all you've got to whatever your communities focus on that say folks on besides project right Your projects go to be interesting. It's going to be relevant to build a community around something that people fundamentally don't have an interest in So you gotta make a project product to service a mission. That is fundamentally interesting. This is step one but the second thing I think is is getting getting people to dream big around what you can do with your community right so we are as a species very motivated around. I'm doing meaningful work. It's one of the reasons why people get behind that political candidates is one of the reasons. Why people join Big A big ambitious projects. Such as spacex a hyperloop all various open source projects. Because they're dreaming big..
"jono" Discussed on Arrested DevOps
"The author of a new book people powered JOE IS A well-known consultant author advisor and Speaker on the topics of community and collaboration and all around rat human being and as I also just discovered a fan of heavy metals title. So that's awesome too. So can you tell our listeners. Just a little bit about yourself. Candidacy stage you. Don't have to give your life story. Maybe like a quarter of it. They will not first of all. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. You know Yeah I'm in a nutshell. I'm really passionate about communities I Am Pretty firmly of the view that when we get People together into healthy communities. I think it improves the human condition. I think we can create things that we've never been able to create before I think we can have more of an impact the whenever than we've ever had before The the tricky thing is that Figuring out the recipe of how you build out a community not is a complicated mix involves technology workflow psychology all of these different pieces incentives. So I've spent my career really focus on that I used to. Who am I started out in the open source world you know going to Lennox in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight? And that's where I discovered communities what canonical get OPEC's price and these days consultant consultant. I work with a variety of companies around how they build communities both inside of a company as well as outside A pretty reasonable chunk of those tend to be tech firms. Because that's my heritage especially in open source so Yeah I just think this this enormous amounts of potential. I think this is going to be. The future of how companies tend ends engage with their customers and their use. I think people don't want the newsletter anymore. I think people don't want to be spoken to have a relationship with the with the the people life follow with the companies they follow and the projects that they follow. I've been listening to the Audio Book version of people powered. I'm not all the way. Thank you but I have been listening to it. I love audiobooks. And I'm I've been very much looking forward to win. This one was coming out was watching my audible preorder. You know a lot of other Dell's patient. Yeah thank you but you begin the book by telling the story of a new bunch of contributor in Africa and how that was kind of a catalyst for you her inspiration around your ideas of what a tech community really could be Can you share with us a little bit of that story. I mean we don't WanNa give away the whole book. Everybody needs to go by the doc but you know maybe the kind of thing started. Yes so this was Pretty formative moment in my would say career but really in my life to be honest with you. I've been working canonical. She's the company that primarily funds into For Bow I think about six months and I got this email from this kid who is is based I forget where it was but it was based somewhere in rural Africa and he basically said that. He spent his week doing chores around village. have a computer at home And then he basically earned money from those chores and then do is walk around. I think it was about two hours to his local town where he then use that money to buy about an hour's worth of Internet access to the cafe and cafe and then he contribute to a boon to and then he walked to I I was back and I was blown away for a couple of reasons. One is that that's remarkable amount of commitment. You wouldn't get me walking two hours anyway but it also demonstrates in me. Just what's possible when someone feels part of a bigger mission and big machine and clearly he felt like I mean his is email was just gushing with excitement about into an obviously. He's got a very special meaning in Africa because he was African word meaning humanity towards others. But you now. He was a kitten in rural Africa. When he was caught the project and part of the community he was playing in one piece in a much bigger in a much kind of mission and ethos? And I think that's what motivated him to do that. And we see those kinds of examples all over the world. We've seen it. You know in five like for example with Fire Fox people in community you know Do an enormous massive advocacy advocacy work organizing crop circles back in the back in the day. But we see it in gaming communities in across open source and devops and beyond so it's pretty impressive and that sort of thing when we think about community. I mean that's a big word. It can be a big word and a lot of different things to lots of different people and I wanted to start by thinking about nope the different kinds of communities. Because we all besides just you know the community that we engage with on a personal level we have our local community. We have organizational communities in things but in the context of what we're talking about I there's kind of a couple of the ones that come to mind and I think we can kind of dig into a Bona see about how you slice and dice is this So there's communities of users right people who might use your product or your project you know you're you're in and they can be communities unto themselves. Yeah I think about an employee community right like on you know at Patriotair where I work. There's a big I don't WanNa say focus but we we take a lot of pride in our community community of being what we call do tonens people who at pager duty right like that's a community workers all over the world right and we talked about contributors to a project. That's a different kind of community maybe than users. Maybe there's I think there's a lot of overlap with these right. Yeah and then and those. It's kind of a those. Were just some that I started with but I'm sure there's a lot more of different lenses by which you might see a community. What are what are some of the interesting ones? Using some of the different ways. You might kind of categorize types of community. Yeah I mean I think your intuition analysis is sparse on like this Community the like you said the the term community is a very broad definition and I think people have different views of what it is. I mean for example I I went and I didn't interview on them on the triangulation show which is a show. That Leo LaPorte doesn't twist the comments he made. was you know. We'll communities basically elite like social media as a community right and I don't really slice and dice it that way. As an example I see a community is a group of people who are interconnected around emission or an ethos and social media complete one role of that. But it's not that in itself in my mind is very specifically said to me. I basically break communities down into three three models And this I kind of walk through this people out one is is what I refer to as consumers so these people get together because they share common interests such as their star Trek fans fans all day uses of Bonetti's all whatever it might be And they come together. They don't really have that much of an influence on the call thing that brings them together they had just Enthusiastic uses and they may provide support and help and whatever else the second type is what I refer to. As as champions these people kind of go the extra mile they generate right content. They produce Videos Creek blog posts. They they do social media they organize events they do all of these different pieces. This material is typically added to you kind of like a stockpile and and people it's like an additive stop also the more content people produce the Mo- valuable the community tends to become and and then the third type is what I referred to as the collaborative community which is where people come together to build something and this kind of subdivide into two areas. I refer to one is INA collaborators which is which is people who work on exactly the same project so good example is open source right if anyone who's run on a solid project particular there's a company attached to. It knows that you will be more successful if the community feel part of the same team because they see themselves as part the same team so therefore if they get the sense sit back and of unpaid Labor than the GonNa get pretty frustrated So that those complicated communities to build because you need to make sure that the equality of opportunity in collaboration there but the other type of collaborates committees what I refer to as outer which is where people come together to build things that sits sits on top of your community platforms that could be for example people building plug ins for wordpress or it could be building apps for a particular APP store it could be people building. NPR modules and very different relationship in how you build those kinds of communities. But what's slices through all of that are also these different types of persona so so you mentioned for example uses employees contributors. These all different personas very different needs and cultural norms so for example. One company that I'm working with right now we're building a community of that's focused on kind of business decision makers Those people are never going to go to a forum. They're never going to go and hang out online They're generally pretty busy people and they primarily communicate via phone and email so e mail is going to be primary to bring those folks in but then we're also in the same company company building a community of kind of technical implementation people deploying the software they bought. And you know those are going to be more from an engineering background in this very very used to going into online setting such as forums or slack channels or stack exchange and places like that. So you know. I think it's important to determine the type of the community going to build and then you define those personas and now will help to shine a light on what kind of strategy you need to put together. You talked about the different personas have different ways that they'll consume mm-hmm or interact and I feel like I've had this conversation a lot over the last decade in various ways in different roles I've had about finding people meeting people where they are and I see this a lot just when I think about it when I think even about in communication inside Haydn Organization so we always talk about like. How do we let people know about if we're GONNA have a new release or have some new program or something like that happening company and it? It was Kinda like well. We have this email announcement that got everybody. Consuming sometimes people want are assessed speed sometimes people want channels and and I feel like that part of the challenge is the more channels you add of communication or interaction the overhead of managing and using them right increases exponentially. So I think that's why people tend to want to say like well. I have this one way I tell people in my community the information but I always think about out. This is kind of a silly example but I worked for this company where and we weren't very not remote like this story wouldn't work in a remote story and remote company me but one of the ways that communicate that information was disseminated to employ with signs in the restroom. So what was interesting. Is the floor that I worked thin. We had a shared restroom with another company that was like outside of our Of our part of the floor so we were our company. Couldn't post anything in there and and there were many times I would be literally out of I would. I would be out of the loop on what was happening in the company because I didn't communication channel was one one one method which was signs in a restroom and it didn't apply to all the employees and I don't think it occurred to anybody that there had to be you know so sometimes it's about your preference and sometimes it's about and especially when we think about remote employees or again I know I'm talking of the community inside of an organization but it's still goes to different people have different ways of being able consume it. And how do we..
How Building Community Can Supercharge Your Business
"Well communities can be very powerful force in helping to grow your company but how do you harness them here to show us how Jono Bacon again. Who's the leading community? Imagine Strategic Consoling Speaker and author of a book called people powered how communities can supercharge your business brands and teams his previously wrote the best selling book the art of Community Jones the founder of the primary annual conference for community leaders and managers call the Community Leadership Summit Jona welcome to the show. Thank you various great to be here. So let's first define our terms when you're talking about community do you mean in real real life ones or virtual ones are both I think it's both The way I look at it in this essentially three models but communities a-this that we can think of the first is what I refer to consumer to be the people who get together because they shared interests such as Star Trek fans. Who took him by the show live along with the And then the second type is what I call champion. Which is why people go the extra mile? They wanted to write articles produced videos. They want what to do advocacy setup events But then the third type is what I call collaborative which is why people come together to build something and that could be either collaborating Britain around South West which is where the open source revolution. That's happened or it could be for example building applications that sit and in stores or some things so I it seems that people or more physically Iceland ever are these kinds of communities actually helping to bring people together. Absolutely I mean. I think what's really interesting. Is that historically people have been forming into communities for a number of years. I mean people get together and trolls and have book clubs and things like that but each each session each meeting that they would have nothing would happen in between and you know you just show up each week and what's happening. What's happened in the in the last five? To ten years with advent you know in the growth of technology is that now. We're able to fuse together. Physical and online worlds much more effectively than APP. So for example you can have physical meeting take get together and they they do talk and they network and they have mixes but then you can keep people connected through online forums and incentives and social media pieces like that so so. I'm finding that what's happening is. We're seeing this especially in business. The value of having an interactive relationship with your audience is more important uncalled than ever. I mean just today as we record this. Google is fish Two billion dollars and I think one of the main reasons for that is that it is not just. The manufacturer factual watches of exercise equipment. They built a huge community of people get together and exercise each each other. Make sure the backup so I think it's lowering the various people spend more time with each other another example as Peleton right. People are getting together at home but they're getting together together with their community to exercise. This is so when you talk about these. Three communities interest or become a champion around software is any one type of community stronger than the other. I don't think one's necessarily stronger but I think we've seen More examples and and the road is being traveled. mullets some of these teams for example with collaborative is what people get together to build. Something I mean one of the best examples that is open source. I mean we've seen is one such example Cuba nephews which is formed that runs. The cloud has brought together over two thousand software developers from over fifty competing companies to to build a platform that's completely open-source completely. Three towers how you know the way the world works in terms of the cloud. So that said there's a lot a lot of there's a lot of expertise that we also see on on the on the On the kind of the the consumer side we've seen so many people have been getting together into into the groups into events forums where they have a common interest where it's a little less proven is this fusion of Of of the insieme Marcus View from simple people being used products and how they blend together the coast and and the collaborative elements it'd be an online at the same time and and and this is where she were a really good example. They've built an enormous community of writers Online he will get together arriving together. The doing you know power trading and things like that but now they're swimming more and more into in person events as well and that is where. I think. We're seeing the evolution of community really starting to to grow is that you're saying is that people actually start as a community virtually and then they get to know each other than they wanna meet in person in many cases that's the case that the thing with virtual little courses that there's a very low bar entry you know all you really need is your cell phone and you can get connected whereas if you want to go and meet somebody in person then you gotta take time off my after go babysit. Say you've got trouble somewhere. So everybody liked with anything window shelters I and it's the same thing with communities you Kinda poke had through the door and you see what's going on and it becomes more and more compelling what happens is you didn't you didn't stop to To want to invest more movie a time enough into typically when people the events and then when people understand especially all the small business owners listening that creating a community attach. Your Business is so important because said time and time time again people no longer want to buy your stuff that WanNa just buy your product. Shove your services they really want to have an experience and if they have a community to support that experience Jono it really can get them to talk about Your Business and can really propel it where you never thought possible. Absolutely I mean the thing is I think it's easy easy to forget when we you know when you take away the screen. The computers the podcast everything. We are fundamentally animals and automobiles one of the key key things that we hunt for and we searched for is a sense of belonging is when you feel pop something. When you feel valued by a social grouping it's one of the reasons why people are you know Family oriented example. What happens when you build a community wrapped around your business? You have a relationship with your customers to write a product to them and you know. Hopefully you'll get a referral out of them and maybe some good reviews what happens. Is they feel author relationship with your organization and they and you get this amplifier effect. Where they need other customers by the consumers and it builds a sense of belonging and it's one of the reasons why salesforce Oracle sap built communities over a million uses and harley-davidson has got seven hundred rights local chapters all over the world because people are upset and it builds customer attention for years? So it's a very. It's a very powerful tool so joan. Of course the sixty four million dollar question we always want these vibrant active communities associated with business. How do you get started building a successful community so This is one of the reasons why I wrote my new book. People Pal it is is sadly I believe. There is no silver bullet for this. But what I've learned over the cost of my twenty one year career is that there are a set of consistent pieces that you should put in place so in a nutshell. The first thing we have to do. Is You have to decide which of those three and the committee models most aligned to those and sometimes it will be a combination of a couple of and the first thing we should do identify the value value. Like what is the value went to bring to the community mentor. You have to stop that and the value of your business will slow wants to identify and then what we do is we we build out and said the personas. So what are the types of community activity you WANNA say. They want people to write software. You won't be able to organize it. Do you want people to write documentation or obstacles we we we carve out this own as much as a sense of what are the things incentivize those people and how do we find them. So for example the wing which incentive device software engineer is very different to the way in which you would incentivize a designer for example to participate in your community. What what does it gives us kind of a blueprint reprint of the end game? And then we break that down into into a set of annual objectives were willing to stop focusing on how we accomplish those different paces and the the ingredients that sit in those objectives we'll be a multitude of different things for example content is a great way bringing people in social media the right way of bringing people in the one of the things we need to figure out is how people communicate with each other communities apple have like a clubhouse it could come and communication platform the key thing here is stop small and it's right. There are many clients that I've worked with over the years. Where they you know they bring me in? Because they kicked off this huge community initiative and they haven't got the traction Russian they wanted and in many cases. It's because it was overcomplicate. You need to do is the key trick is is start small focus the right kind of persona. They're so because in the right value and then tracked the right kind of metrics. It's a right over and over again because when you are able to read the data and how it impacts impacts your committee strategy you can then choose it very specific to what your business once. And that's kind of what I walked in and people powered so Jonah what are the pitfalls pitfalls though a bringing actually people into your work right so your clients. People are watching everything you're doing and they're able to comment on it. Yeah Yeah I mean You know everything is a is a is a bunch of roses I think one of the pitfalls is it can open up some of the vulnerabilities of your business. You know if you think about how most businesses operate you have a hierarchy and instead of decision making and you'll customers and you'll uses they're they're placed in a very specific way in your world. You meant for example you you reach out to them. Through newsletters new provide product to them the way they contact. Talk to you through your customer support lines for example when you have a community for it to really succeed. What you need to do is to build an interactive relationship with them and what that means is you need to train your team members in how to engage with them and how to solicit feedback from them and it requires is giving a little bit not so much control but records giving some oxygen to your customers and they didn't have before and that can be assessing for a lot of businesses and it requires? It's very castle amount of training because you can probably imagine. Communities request functional. It requires marketing team product. Team your engineering team to be involved to deliver the different pieces of the puzzle And
How Building Community Can Supercharge Your Business
"Well communities can be very powerful force in helping to grow your company but how do you harness them here to show us how Jono Bacon again. Who's the leading community? Imagine Strategic Consoling Speaker and author of a book called people powered how communities can supercharge your business brands and teams his previously wrote the best selling book the art of Community Jones the founder of the primary annual conference for community leaders and managers call the Community Leadership Summit Jona welcome to the show. Thank you great to be here. So let's first define our terms when you're talking about community do you mean in real real life ones or virtual ones are both I think it's both The way I look at it in this essentially three models but communities a-this that we can think of the first is what I refer to consumer to be the people who get together because they shared interests such as Star Trek fans. Who took him by the show live along with the And then the second type is what I call champion. Which is why people go the extra mile? They wanted to write articles produced videos. They want what to do advocacy setup events But then the third type is what I call collaborative which is why people come together to build something and that could be either collaborating Britain around South West which is where the open source revolution. That's happened or it could be for example building applications that sit and in stores such as so i. It seems that people or more physically Iceland ever are these kinds of communities actually helping to bring people together. Absolutely I mean I think what's really interesting is that historically people have been forming into communities for a number of years. I mean people get together and trolls and have book clubs and things like that but each each session each meeting that they would have nothing would happen in between and you know you just show up each week and what's happening. What's happened in the in the last five? To ten years with advent you know in the course if technology is that now we're able to fuse together. Physical and online worlds much more effectively than APP so for example you can have physical meeting. Take get together and they they do talk and they network and they have mixes but then you can keep people connected through online forums and incentives and social media pieces like that so so. I'm finding that what's happening is. We're seeing this especially in business. The value of having an interactive relationship with your audience is more important uncalled than ever. I mean just today as we record this. Google is fish Two billion dollars and I think one of the main reasons for that is that it is not just a manufacturer factual watches of exercise equipment. They built a huge community of people get together and exercise each each other. Make sure the backup so I think it's lowering the various people spend more time with each other another example as Peleton right. People are getting together at home but they're getting together together with their community to exercise. This is so when you talk about these. Three communities interest or become a champion around software is any one type of community stronger than the other. I don't think one's necessarily stronger but I think we've seen More examples and and the road is being traveled. mullets some of these teams for example with collaborative is what people get together to build. Something I mean one of the best examples that is open source. I mean we've seen is one such example Cuba nephews which is formed that runs. The cloud has brought together over two thousand software developers from over fifty competing companies to build a platform that's completely open-source completely. Three towers how you know the way the world works in terms of the cloud. So that said there's a lot a lot of there's a lot of expertise that we also see on on the on the On the kind of the the consumer side we've seen so many people have been getting together into into the groups into events forums where they have a common interest where it's a little less proven is this fusion of Of of the insieme Marcus View from simple people being used products and how they blend together the coast and and the collaborative elements it'd be an online at the same time and and and this is where telethon she were a really good example. They've built an enormous community of writers Online he will get together arriving together. The doing you know power trading and things like that but now they're swimming more and more into in person events as well and that is where I think we're seeing the evolution of community really starting to to grow is that you're saying is that people actually start as a community virtually and then they get to know each other than they wanna meet in person in many cases that's the case that the thing with virtual little courses that there's a very low bar entry you know all you really need is your cell phone and you can get connected whereas if you want to go and meet somebody in person then you gotta take time off my after go babysit. Say you've got trouble somewhere. So everybody liked with anything window shelters I and it's the same thing with communities you Kinda poke had through the door and you see what's going on and it becomes more and more compelling what happens is you didn't you didn't stop to To want to invest more time and effort into typically when people the events and then when people understand especially all the small business owners listening that creating a community attach. Your Business is so important because as I said time and time time again people no longer want to buy your stuff that Wanna just buy your product shove your services they really want to have an experience and if they have a community to support that experience Jono it really can get them to talk about Your Business and can really propel it where you never thought possible. Absolutely I mean the thing is I think it's easy easy to forget when we you know when you take away the screen the computers the podcast everything. We are fundamentally animals and automobiles one of the key. The things that we hunt for and we searched for is a sense of belonging is when you feel pop something. When you feel valued by a social grouping and it's one of the reasons why people are you know Family oriented example. What happens when you build a community wrapped around your business? You have a relationship with your customers to write a product to them and you know. Hopefully you'll get a referral out of them and maybe some good reviews what happens. Is they feel author relationship with your organization and they and you get this amplifier effect. Where they need other customers by the consumers and it builds a sense of belonging and it's one of the reasons why salesforce Oracle sap built communities over a million uses and harley-davidson has got seven hundred rights local chapters all over the world because people are upset and it builds customer attention for years? So it's a very. It's a very powerful tool so joan. Of course the sixty four million dollar question we always want these vibrant active communities associated with business. How do you get started building a successful community so This is one of the reasons why I wrote my new book. People Pal it is is sadly I believe. There is no silver bullet for this. But what I've learned over the cost of my twenty one year career is that there are a set of consistent pieces that you should put in place so in a nutshell. The first thing we have to do. Is You have to decide which of those three and the committee models most aligned to those and sometimes it will be a combination of a couple of and the first thing we should do identify the value value. Like what is the value went to bring to the community mentor. You have to stop that and the value of your business will slow wants to identify and then what we do is we we build out and said the personas. So what are the types of community activity WANNA say. They want people to write software. You won't be able to organize it. Do you want people to write documentation or obstacles we we we carve out this own as much as a sense of what are the things incentivize those people and how do we find them. So for example the wing incentive device software engineer is very different to the way in which you would incentivize Design it for example to participate in your community. What what does it gives us? kind of a blueprint reprint of the end game. And then we break that down into into a set of annual objectives were willing to stop focusing on how we accomplish those different paces and the the ingredients that sit in those objectives. We'll be a multitude of different things. For example content is a great way bringing people in social media the right way of bringing people in the one of the things we need to figure out is how people communicate with each other communities apple have like a clubhouse it could come and communication platform the key thing here is stop small and it's right there are many clients that I've worked with over the years. Where they you know they bring me in? Because they kicked off this huge community initiative and they haven't got the traction Russian they wanted and in many cases. It's because it was overcomplicate. You need to do is the key trick is is stop small focus the right kind of persona. They're so because in the right kind of value and then tracked the right kind of metrics. It's right over and over again because when you are able to read the data and how it impacts impacts your committee strategy you can then choose it very specific to what your business once and. That's kind of what I walked in and people powered so Jonah what are the pitfalls pitfalls though a bringing actually people into your work right so your clients. People are watching everything you're doing and they're able to comment on it. Yeah Yeah I mean You know everything is a is a is a bunch of roses I think one of the pitfalls is it can open up some of the vulnerabilities of your business. You know if you think about how most businesses operate you have a hierarchy and instead of decision making and you'll customers and you'll uses they're they're placed in a very specific way in your world. You meant for example you you reach out to them. Through newsletters new provide product to them the way they contact. Talk to you through your customer support lines for example when you have a community for it to really succeed. What you need to do is to build an interactive relationship with them and what that means is you need to train your team members in how to engage with them and how to solicit feedback from them and it requires is giving a little bit not so much control but records giving some oxygen to your customers and they didn't have before and that can be suffering for a lot of businesses and it requires? It's very castle amount of training because you can probably imagine. Communities request functional. It requires marketing team product. Team your engineering team to be involved to deliver the different pieces of the puzzle And
A Study Confirms That Laugh Tracks Make Jokes Seem Funnier
"How good to joke when it comes to you very research seems to bear out the use of laugh tracks on TV shows bad jokes seem funnier if someone else is laughing Danny ocean and rusty Ryan's forced the flaws were part of a con in ocean's twelve University College London presented groan worthy dad jokes by professional comedians to two audiences one without and the other with laughter either recorded or live as it in and the latter increased the phoniness ratings given by audience members why Jono studies in the journal current biology I'll tell you why because a crowded loves to go where certain things are going right that's that whole like it's gonna move it's doesn't take a genius to see that so if other people think it's funny in there laughing you should probably laugh to because everybody else's so they're doing that I should do that's the whole thing when I talk about with like virtue signalling is a perfect example it's like if you're in an audience you may not believe it but you want to be the one left out right you want to be the one left out so if somebody comes out and says something about trump and everybody else is clapping that's negative your user I don't to be the person that's left I don't even persons they go out I don't wanna be the person in the crowd that's not agreeing with everybody because that's what I want to be sending laughter people gonna laugh we get a fake ID along what god yeah there there last
"jono" Discussed on Z104
"Don't worry about it. That's my sees me to snow if you hurt and you cost me cost me cost me you. Now what you not do is Dan there. Got money. Jono McGovern doing cross fit. Respect. Cost me me me with you. Crazy. So, you know. News. Snow. Me me me. L four. Sometimes pieces of sons peace of mind. Sometimes. About..
Successfully Recovering from Setbacks
"Today's tip is an excerpt. From the latest episode of the seal success stories podcast that also released today where I interviewed John Clegg Johnno is a former Olympian turns medical device sales rep and was just named the international rep of the year for twenty eighteen at right medical here. He is. So I think for me, I should this goes back to when I was a sports person. And I think this relates well to to work and everything about because this was a huge setback ends. I in twenty thirteen I ended up getting a really bad injury. Gays six seven years of never having an injury to I'm being really robust as an athlete, but in twenty fifteen food on cycling camp in the December initially it was just a few scrapes and cuts, but my soldiers on through the rest of the camp and everything can win over the Christmas break and came back for from Christmas and went straight off in another camp. But I could start to feel that something wasn't quite right. But we had already competitive group and the thing with that is the wanna miss out. And so I kept pushing myself a through the camp. But when we go hi, and we had some real assessments to do meant these were big Olympic tests assessments and making sure the strong for these Rudy matted, but ended up having to was was missed is tests because momma back win and this led to series scans that confirmed that had a tear my hip joint. This is actually very useful day life. Now that having this injury story can relate to search. The challenge was that was this is something never. Experienced before. I'd never had an injury. So what did I do that? This is where I really leaned on everyone around a the people that had injuries before my team, my physio is and basically just worked my goals into this new injury and working back and working on my weaknesses and ended up coming back from that. And had my my my successful trial in the April say from having my first injury in December two to back to foof it as performing actually better. I think the lesson I learned from there is that when you're struggling this is actually a real opportunity, and you you've got take the opportunities when they come whether that good or bad and just every everyone is it onto lead and reassess. What you do ri- detest Riddick. I'd say that was the biggest challenge dot com. Back from us that that now if we day in terms of every opportunity, I'll have good bad is learning blending