20 Episode results for "Jonathan Wolf"
Episode 39- Building an Iconic Sound with Jonathan Wolff (Part Two)
"Now as a lot of music in Seinfeld that was not see matic. Larry came to recognize that he could go to me. Forgacs I loved when they let me throw in and be part of the comedy. They're all these pieces of music that instantly. Identify a scene. I don't know the music from Kramer's PIMP Walk Jerry. The mailman remember. He's whistling. Oh in the pastiche. Practice Morty was impeached the Nixon movie so I played it like the Nixon Movie Rochelle Rochelle the Musical Course Jerry. Show scarsdale surprise. It's fake title on a fake theme. And they were fake. Tony Awards. Oh my favorite flaming Globes of segment. Fifty percent of the Post audio value is certainly music looping and crowds and dialogue editing sound effects and music. Thanks for joining me for part two of my interview with Jonathan Wolf Creator of the iconic sounds and music. We've come to love in Seinfeld. We discussed how the freedom he was given to experiment and create helped to produce an absolutely unforgettable show. The characters are great. The writing is awesome. The very first thing that draws you into even pay attention to the show in the first place is that theme that truly unique and special theme that has become part of our culture. Welcome to the sound and marketing. Podcast I think the key takeaway what you're just saying is the theme comes first. Sometimes it comes before even visual. So you're hearing this representation of show before you're seeing it and this is what I kind of preach to marketers is that your sound is telling the story before sometimes someone even seize your visual representation. It's so powerful. That's that's a given. It is powerful. But it's I you need to have the right representation for what your story is what you're about to talk about through the sound that you're representing and that's why all of these themes that you were mentioning they bring about. Not only the memory of the show. It tells a story within seconds. It just baffles me. How people don't they don't realize that they don't realize that it's not just about their show. It's about what they're Xiao sounds like the TV music as you're saying even when heard separately from the TV show it can act as an ambassador to the world and adds value to the broadcast of the show. You know. Let's look at again. I wrote seinfeld themes is the one. I'm most comfortable with this weird in. It's weird globally. Popular Entertainment Phenomenon of SEINFELD THEME MASH UP VIDEOS TURNS OUT SEINFELD music when mashed up with anything constitutes excellent clip. Eight because the navy degrade. I don't know if you do this. Anyone who's listening to just take a minute and look up seinfeld theme mashups Cam GonNa get a half a million hits you know what my favorite is the Kendrick Lamar kun-tae Can Kunda Mash up with is just really good notorious. B I did one in Oh Fred durst did live for biscuit and it works. Pretty good Somebody did Kanye West. Sign Ya where they took. Sign Count Conway. Frantic announced something in put music underneath became. I don't know millions of us of this. So it's just a weird thing. And there's all these others radiohead evanescence. Odbc vanilla ice always weird mashups. Another practice popped up Seinfeld. Music placed into serious dramatic movies. Those for comedy. You know making fun right right list. People would take game of thrones like the serious heaviest deaths game thrown premium music to it. Just for fine and notice in all these mashups. Jerry's not an Jason Julia Michael. None of them are in them is just the music and yet the connection is to. Seinfeld who it was. It was either Steven Spielberg or George Lucas. They said fifty percent of the movie experience is sound. There's a guy who's composer John Williams so it's well. Yeah if you have bad music it's going to affect your show. You know if you have a bad show and good music you know the music might shine through or something but the show itself is just going to not be good. They have to. They have to marry each other. So it's a fifty fifty situation so if people are focusing just on you know what what their what their brand or what their show or what. They're Form of communication is visually and their knowing what it is auditory. They're they're missing out. They're not going to have a true sincere representation of what they want to portray their missing half of it. I'll go this far. The fifty percent of the post audio value is certainly as you got a lot of post audio looping and crowds and dialogue getting their sound effects and music. The wonderful thing about what you did was yes. There was the baseline and there was a musical aspect to it but I consider the finger snaps in the pops and all of that. That is just as much part of the theme song as anything else and that sound. So there's so many ways that you can you can put this forward even if you don't want a Truly musical piece Portrayed into whatever you are portraying you can still use sound to your advantage. There's just so many limitless possibilities. I was the composer on seventy five. Primetime Network TV series. Not all of them were precious gems and not all of them had unique music. Sometimes it was my job to do generic music make it sound like it doesn't matter how the sentence ends its derivative music already because it starts with make it sound like when I was able to I liked doing what you're saying creating a sonic environment that speaks specifically about that. Show like a signature. So whenever I could. I did that sometimes. You know the it didn't have to create a new sound for for will and grace the sound of that show. The music sound. That show is piano solo piano. It was born about because I knew these guys David Max wonderful writers but they had this habit. They call me from editing saying look we know we owe you cut three hours ago. But there's a lot of dialogue in this episode. We're running into some trouble. I'm sorry you're not GonNa get a cut and that's okay. I'll see it to mix and they'd be happy. No we love you. When will and grace came around and I started seeing these fifty scripts guys the fifty pages of dialogue. I've never getting a cut 'em I it's just ridiculously thick. I mean it's the twenty two minutes show we're GONNA have Carolina this down and you're going to spend extra time in editing doing it so I'm never gonNA get my guys miserable. That's fair to tell you what how about I play piano. I can do it in real time. GimMe Your show in twenty two minutes. I'll give it back to you with music while I bet they loved that it was. It was fine to come on over. Let's get a theme that works with that and they sat there. While I improvised a bunch of things ended six or seven recorded all of them and they picked one of them and that was what is now still in current Rhine. The will and grace theme that I improvised in front of the sex and the way it worked for every episode whereas I would sit at the piano. It'd be watching the TV show and hearing it and looking at the DL. Data decision lists so I knew transition was coming up and I leaned my head over the keys and music would fall out onto them and that way I was able to do the shows without getting a without advance while pre lay was going on. Remember this is before fully digital audio. So you used to have to do pre lay so while that was going on. I was doing the music. And we mixed at Warner. The Warner Dub stage was adjacent to scoring stage. His beautiful piano always might always tuned and there were times when I there just wasn't enough time from even do that and I would show up at the mix in the other room with a pair of headphones do the music live on the the upstate. Anyone who's listening to this don't do that. That's really inefficient. Way To scored picture. Would you say that Your mindset in the way you approach things for Seinfeld prepared you for things like will and grace in the other. The other shows that you went onto afterwards once Seinfeld gained a following season four or so when they gave us timeslot. Finally we didn't even have a slot by the way and when we finally got a timeslot new as a a an excellent time slot Thursday night. After cheers and people start noticing this show so there was all these episodes of Seinfeld that had never been seen before. And that made our syndication package more valuable and immediate one seinfeld became a cult following and it was not a hit show yet but once had a following then Kali would as you know is a me to town but not the Hashtag but if somebody's having success at something other go own wits to two and I became flavor of the month the composer that people wanted because of Seinfeld and I stayed composer the flavor of the month for about ten years. So that is what Seinfeld really did for me definitely made me in demand so that I had too much work for to handle for myself. Now Seinfeld also you said was a good training. Somehow the answer is yes. I mean there was a lot of music in seinfeld. That was not semantic. It was you know Larry came to recognize that he could go to me for gags and I loved when they let me throw in and be part of the comedy. I said I'm retired. But I'm going to plug this next year. Warner plans to release the SEINFELD SOUNDTRACK ALBUM NEXT YEAR. Which is twenty twenty one? The released hopefully coincide with Netflix. Premiering Seinfeld for the first time. Where if you want to stream Seinfeld there in theory will be soundtrack album with all of this non thematic music on it. There are all these pieces of music that instantly. Identify a scene. I don't know music from Kramer's pimp walk. Oh Yeah Seinfeld person yes I am. You instantly know when I'm talking about music you would picture your Kramer dressed in that. Could have many colors. Jerry Mailman remember his whistling. Oh in the pastiche practice. We had so many pastiche moments when morty was impeached. Hey Left del book of this with Regal it dignity and it was it was like the Nixon movie so I played it like the Nixon movie. It's a long long long list of funny and some of its terrible music by the way but it works. You're proving the point that the music took on a character of its own and when Those involved with the show came to you for support of the show to do like the licks. And all of the staff it reinforces the importance of the sound in the music that you came up with and I'm sure as it went it probably got easier and easier for you to just kind of go. Well this would work for this and oh I can pull this and just because you're part of this process so you're there for nine seasons and you've been following this show and grew up with the show I mean. I know you had a lot of gigs before it. But this like really put your name on the map. I would imagine it certainly have. Who's the boss and married with children? Yes on the map but this certainly splattered it across continents. Larry is a very musical guy. He knows a lot of music and he loves music. Timeshare owners the director very musical guy so it was perfectly natural for learn to trust meter right. You know the song for Rochelle Rochelle the musical. Somebody had to create the music for all of those other fake productions. They in a movie theater. And you'll hear Rachelle. We're shell the movie I take it. You wrote a theme song for Jerry. Also of course the Jerry. Show Larry Larry Charles gave me that instruction he just said. This is happy generic Sitcom using Friday. Night Miller. Boy I got this so I'll be back in an hour. Thank you for recognising. That was part of the joke that it was a generic. I think that that was probably my favorite story. Line of all of them was when they created the show about nothing like it was such a mirror of what what the show is. It was brilliant. It was Larry's Lexin his muscles scarsdale. They played that music at the Tony Awards over and over again but it's fake title fake theme and they were faked Tony Awards and that was my music and checkmate blimp. Oh my favorite of all of these flaming Globes of Sigmund Larry David Onscreen in a in a light. Metallic spacesuit in goggles was a late. Night bad sci fi horror movie. The Jerry was half asleep and he turned on. And we see Larry Flay. The Globes are all aflame justice. And so I got to create that music. That's my favorite one just because we actually see the fake production and his Larry. What themes nowadays do you feel are unique and ground-breaking that help steer a show into a culture for example? I think the office did that pretty well. But that's my opinion. My good friend Paul Buckley. He is now working as a full time composer and he has a show on apple called help stirs the music is a key ingredient on this show and he is just killing it. Here is just so good. It's annoying In my wife and I we've been binge watching Ozark and the outsider and composers Danny Benzi and Saunder. Brian's I don't know if I compare pronounced that correctly because I don't know these guys but I really liked it. They are out of the box in their scoring styles. Looking back a bit. I love the sound of the Sherlock Music. Oh that was so good all my darnold Michael Price. Yeah it's kind of retro and period sounding for show that it's not and I just really liked it. It feels like keeper using to me Anything BY THOMAS NEWMAN IS GONNA fit into that category and he has a series called castle. Rock looking backwards. I loved bear. Mcrae's work on walking dead. I think that really gave it a good. Sonic Stamp Jeff. Beal who is way too good house of cards housing cards anything. Jeff does just spectacular time. It should be a composer because boy there's the in the Palette is just a limited I think also Why it's critical to break out of the box now. More than ever is because of the different technology that we have something that I have been. Researching a lot about is smart speakers and they're trying to figure out programming for smart speakers and there was something for. Westworld. I guess they had. I think it's called the maze and it was mostly for people that already watched the show which I haven't but it was basically a I from what I understand. It was kind of a choose your own adventure kind of thing where you went into the story with characters. There's like twenty voices the show and you programming. Yeah and and they were like going through these motions and going through. Whatever this Intense thing was and you know if you're already a fan of the show I'm sure it's riveting so the way that I see it is if you can come up with something out of the box. It's more important than ever because what your show gets picked up for one of these new technology items like a smart speaker. How how are you going to shine through? How is your programming gonNA shine through the sound and the music? That's what's going to hold people. That's what's going to grip them to want to come back because it's not visual at all. When I was starting Seinfeld there was no digital audio nineteen eighty-nine during the pro tools yet. So we're talking about technologies that came about after I retired. There was no youtube when I retired. No facebook so I've had to kind of we'll stumble along with these things and you asked about those composers whose work I admire. That's one of the reasons why I'm most happy to be retired that I don't have to peach with those giants talking to people who score of Video Game Music. That just completely blows my mind the way that they have to write. Because it's you know. The the outcomes are different for each gamer. So you have to create this music that's Lupu ball and then it builds and that it sustains a bit and you've got to have all these things built in I do not understand how it is I maybe younger than you but I also did not grow up in the area era of having all of this technology just learning as this stuff kind of more into what it is has been absolutely fascinating and there is no way to keep up with it. You just have to when you were talking about Getting yourself out of the pile and Creating something that was just you. You know you wanted a representation. That only you could do this. That's the same thing with the sound technology. That's happening right now. There's no way you're GONNA get all of it but find out what you're good at and go for it. A couple of my people at my company were doing in their free time video games and just the technical demands required a higher level of understanding and intelligence in the composer's with so much distance and time between the Seinfeld production years and my life today. I'm actually able to view the show much differently from when I was working on it every week so now like you. I'm just another Seinfeld with really funny stories about. I go on as a fan on Instagram instagram. By the way is Seinfeld Music Guy so if you listening give you follow i. 'cause that's what I do. I I go into all these seinfeld. Fan instagram postings and leave nuggets I love it. I love it when that sort of thing happens. I was a huge fan of the office when it was when it was airing. And now there's a podcast called the office ladies and I don't know if you've checked this out or not. But it's a Angela and Pam from the characters Angela and Pam from the office and the two of them just like proud on and talk about like the behind the scenes experiences and they're going episode by episode is just so much fun so much on the people from the inside are telling look little nuggets to the rest of us that appreciate and love the show so much so thank you for make stuff up. I sure some of it. They make up probably to make themselves sound better. Jonathan Wolf. Thank you so much for joining us on. The sound marketing podcast. I had a blast. I hope you had fun to thank you so much. Gina thank you. It was really a blast. I'm so glad you were able to join me as I wrapped up my interview with Jonathan Wolf. Do yourself a favor and Google Seinfeld Mash up after this. Jonathan was right. It's hilarious. Marketing for our brand can be very much like marketing show. The theme song of his show is the calling card. It's the first south for those brands that choose to take on exploring their sound and sonic brand identity. They're given this unique opportunity to do a presale. A soft pitch to introduce their consumers to what they are about to present. Remember we all make sounds? Let's make them on purpose for more of the sound of marketing podcast. Don't forget to follow subscribe and share. You can find us on I tunes spotify who will play iheartradio Pandora and Stitcher for inquiries on producing and developing your own podcast or for inquiries on Sonic in Sonic Brennan Consultation Abilities. You can find the at dreamer productions. That's D R E m. Our PRODUCTIONS DOT COM linked in and facebook. You can also email me at Gina. J. E. N. N. N AT PRODUCTIONS DOT COM. All links will be provided in the show. This episode was produced by Dreamer Productions and hosted written and edited by Me Gene. Let's make this world of sound more intriguing more unique and more and more on brand.
#85 | Seinfeld
"The New Year is all about making improvements in your life. So here's an easy way to do. Just that make your world sound better with the power of Sonos. I personally use sonos speakers all all over as a home theater or simply streaming from spotify or apple music while I cook they sound amazing and are super easy to set up. They also recently launched another speaker. It's called the Sonos move. It's a portable smart speaker. You can bring with you indoors out. It's waterproof and even has automatic tuning technology to optimize the sound in any environment government dot com to learn more. You're listening to twenty thousand Hertz. And the Seinfeld is one of the most successful sitcoms of all time during the nine years that it ran Seinfeld had millions of viewers. It won ten EMMYS. He's three Golden Globes and it's cast become Superstars Seinfeld ended over twenty years ago. But it's still very much alive. It has a huge obsessive fan base. Ace minutes still gets referenced all the time it's theme song that we're hearing right now was unlike any theme song that came before it or is come after. And there's a pretty interesting backstory that you probably don't know behind that Wacky Slap Bass but before we get into it. I need to tell you about my friend Steve. My Name's Steve Lack back and I am. Hey Post production audio mixer and sound designer. Steve and I worked together years ago when we were both sound designers at the discovery channel. I consider Dallas thousand one of my best friends. I really love Dallas. We were both the night shift guys and we both come in around. Six o'clock. nightshift is generally unsupervised. So you come in and you get your assignments you work on your mixes you work on your work. And then when you feel like taking a break take a break to give you a picture of what Steve's like he's the type of person who's lived one hundred. The different lives like the time. He was a circus drummer and got into a fistfight with a clown or the time. He dropped everything and moved to Trinidad or the time he was doing things he shouldn't have been doing in a parking garage that collapsed hours later in the Northridge Earthquake. Yeah Steve is easily one of my favorite people in the world so I would wander over to his suite or he he wandered over and my sweet and we talked politics or the events of the day or sound design or whatever but we got to be pretty good friends because we had several hours hours of quiet time and night where we just hang out and chat during one of those random late nights st told me about the time he worked on Seinfeld. Wait what so apparently in the late eighties and early nineties. He'd been an assistant to a TV composer named Jonathan Wolf. When I first moved to la I was seventeen years old old? And that's Jonathan. He's composed the music for seventy five. TV shows including will and grace married with children. And who's the boss but no one becomes a major not composer overnight. Jonathan spent his first decade in. La doing musical odd jobs and making connections the studios. Were happy to have me. They treated me like a Swiss Swiss army multipurpose utility tool for musical chores. Because I had good training in a wide range of fields but after ten in years Jonathan was ready for a change. I decided that I no longer wanted to continue having the telephone dictate to me where where I was going to work each day and what I was going to do when I got there so I declared myself a composer. Jonathan wrote letters to all of his Hollywood contacts. He thanked them for their support. But ask them to stop sending him these low level musical jobs instead. He wanted to compose original music. Zach this was a huge risk. It's like an actor who had only ever had bit parts deciding that they'll only accept lead roles from now on Jonathan. Knew he might regret it but he mailed those letters anyway. I held my breath. I may have just nuked last ten years of my life. But when when those letters started arriving at their destinations all over Hollywood people just shrugged and said well. That's too bad. He's good utility guy and they started throwing me little writing assignments. songwriting assignments further movies in scoring assignments. In that is how my composing posing career began. This is around the time that Steve got hooked up with Jonathan. He landed. WHO's the boss? And he was doing some other after school specials and starting to really take off as a TV composer news looking for somebody to help out with Midi tack engineering some orchestration in transcriptions setting gear. And all that stuff. I wore many hats. Gradually more and more jobs started coming in we were doing. Who's the boss did some? WHO's the boss spin off shows? Mother sitcoms but getting connected with Jerry. Jerry Seinfeld happened almost by chance turns out in real life. Jerry has a best friend named George. It's George Wallace Comedian what makes me sick. People saying stupid stuff off their piloting unmanned say to me my wife on until I saw you the George Wallace and I have been buddies for a long long time and when Jerry Seinfeld confided confided to his best friend George Wallace that he was having trouble with the music for his new show Wallace said. Hey Call my buddy wolf and so I got a phone call from Jerry Seinfeld. He described to me a sound design issue. Oh he told me that the music for his new show which at the time was called the seinfeld chronicles the opening credits for that show would would be jerry standing in front of an audience. He tells jokes. Oscar Mayer is expanding. His Larry. It's not little anymore is Oscar. Mayer is now a huge monstrous place that area that whole section near keeps getting bigger and for him is not easy to come up with new products that come up with a new product. He has to invent meet no animal as far as I know people laugh. That's the opening credits. And he wanted music music to go with it and I told them right away. That sounds like an audio conflict because what we really need to hear. Is You telling jokes folks deibel laughing. You See TV theme music. Leading into Seinfeld where these epic belting lyrical odes like golden girls a team family ties as Dukes of Hazzard or my personal favorite has eighties. Kid transformers all all of these themes songs were designed to play all by themselves not as a device to prop up dialogue the music in the late eighties on TV was melodic a Lotta. OUGHTA Sassy saxophone silly lyrics. Yeah I'm guilty of creating a lot of that kind of music but it was not going to work in this case so Jonathan pitched this crazy idea instead of making a traditional theme song with verses and a catchy chorus he would build a music around Jerry standup bits so I pitched to Jerry. How about this? How about we treat your human voice as the melody of the Seinfeld theme every time you do a different monologue? We'll be a variation on the theme. My Job Jerry will be to accompany you in in a way that works well with your human voice but does not interfere with the audio of you telling jokes for example the human organic nature nature of your human voice might go well with the human organic nature of my human lips tongue finger snaps like this and I had his attention because that was music for Mars in the late eighties sampling was in its infancy and he said. How's that work and I said come on over? Jonathan had to prove that he could make music. That was memorable and fun on but didn't distract from Jerry standup. I threw it up against one of his monologues. He liked what I showed him. He held the phone up to the speakers. So that Larry David could hear it over. The phone Larry liked it. That was at that time. I'm the entire approval process for the Seinfeld theme are unfortunately the network was less impressed. There there was a meeting where they kind of laid out some conditions and the first thing on the list was music the network executives had some major concerns. What's up with the music? What does that sound was with a popping and what instrument is that? Can we not afford real music. It's distracting it's weird. It's annoying when he said annoying. Larry David perked up. Larry as you may. We know likes to be annoying so I turned to our boss and huddled with him. and Larry Jerry and said look guys I'll L. change the music. Sound a big deal Larry. David would have none of it. He just started yelling at me is they. Don't out and I left the meeting because Larry David thrown me out for suggesting that maybe we would change the music. And obviously Larry Punk tied on the music and music state in the picture as the hero of Ed Story. Yeah so what made up the so-called annoying music. Let's break it down to it's essential parts first up is that iconic slap Latte base at the time slap bass was an element of Funk music buried in the mix it had had not yet enjoyed celebrity status has a solo instrument. Broadly forward illuminated it. put it hot in the mix and it sounded any Kanak. Interestingly these baselines weren't played on a real base Jonathan actually played them on on a keyboard controller that could trigger different samples including bay sounds. It was about at that time that sampling was becoming. I'm really usable. And I use Seinfeld as a proving ground for that bleeding edge technology to get the sound for the original Seinfeld base. Ace Jonathan and Steve took base patches from two different devices and blended them together. The actual original base Oun was Role in defy fifty fifty popper and coreg m one slap bass. I think he started out with the M one. Felt like it wasn't cutting enough. So then we added that defy fifty paper in there which had kind of been hedged to it in what I would do is kind of get a balanced between these two cents while he was playing until we kinda just nailed EXAC- the right sound the base line of Seinfeld checks the actual music of it so basic simple it did not require for beats to a bar do not require meter at all never hold water. I can shut up and start the base to make allowance for the timings of his jokes and his punch lines and the people laughing then there. Those organic sounds that Jonathan mentioned Jonathan recorded. These noises himself off using his fingers and mouth then. He met them to his keyboard so he could play them on the fly. Combine that with a simple Shakur and these noises serve serve as the rhythmic backbone of the Seinfeld theme even the tempo was set around. Jerry's comedic timing. I watched Jerry's standup comedy. And I noticed that he he has a lyric sensibility about the way. He delivers his lines the way he moves. His choreography is facial expressions is move and there was a meter to it that I put different clocks on and finally I settled in on about one one ten. I don't think people think of their offices a workplace as a stationery store with Danish. You WanNa get pastry envelopes. Your supplies your toilet paper six cups of coffee and you go home and that seemed to work well with the metrics of Jerry's is comedy and so that became the tempo of the seinfeld theme in general a few other musical elements were used to emphasize punch lines and other key moments. There was some horns in Vaudeville. When someone told a joke there'd be a rim shot? Will my music kind of serve the oral space of that so the horns would accentuate the end of jokes in the end end of the monologue itself. Let's listen to the opening monologue from the episode the mango notice. How the musical elements ebb and flow to match? Jerry's delivery seedless watermelon what an invention scientists are working on this. I mean other signs devote their lives fighting cancer AIDS heart disease. No I'm focusing on melon. Oh sure thousands of people are dying needlessly but this that's gotTa stop to try and pick a wet one up off the floor. It's almost impossible. I'm devoting my life to that so I guess if they can get rid of the seeds. The Rhine is going next. What do we need that for? Get the Ryen. They're not GONNA stop until they're making the ground ready to eat. Fruit cups growing the idea of having to recreate a recording of the theme. Every every episode was a new concept. I treated it like Lego music. These were elements that could be modular. Modular Lee manipulated to fit the individual timings in the overall length of each monologue. I knew that if this show show win anywhere I was going to have to recreate music. Bespoke for each monologue and so he did to score an episode. Jonathan would watch and rewatch every scene playing along on his keyboard to what was happening on screen. They had to be done to picture. So that the timing's would be right and so that I could maybe use some of his choreography. Sometimes he would do things with his hands or his head. That would give me musical. Instruction the music wasn't just customized for the monologues but also for the unique transitions between scenes like going from the terminal to the plane in the episode called the airport or from the cafe. Jerry's apartment in the gum woman. The gang ends up in a sleepy Massachusetts town in the finale This level of music customization was completely unheard of in Hollywood most. TV shows have one main theme song and a handful of filler tracks. That get reused over and over but on Seinfeld every single episode is unique. It would've saved them tons of time and effort to do things the normal way but that perfectionism is exactly what makes Seinfeld feel so polished even today but the main theme only scratches is the surface of Jonathan's work on Seinfeld as the show progressed. Jonathan got to play around with a wide range of musical genres and tropes these unique tracks underscore. Some of Seinfeld's most hilarious Larionov and memorable scenes. That's coming up after the break. The sound you're hearing right now is the sound of my own personal sonos system calibrating L. happens with the SONOS APP in smartphone. At the end I get to hear this glorious sound. That sound means. My sonos system has been fully calibrated and tuned to to the room. I'm standing in. Look it's that time when everyone. Everyone is making resolutions for the New Year so held out an easy resolution that I know will make your year better upgrade the listening experience in your life this year with a great sound of Sonos. If you've always dreamed about having a top notch home theater Sonos is the perfect solution. Setup is a breeze and the speaker sound absolutely incredible once you hear the crystal clear ear sound. You'll realize what you've been missing out on compared to your other. TV speakers is also super easy to add more speakers later on so you can upgrade at anytime. Many sonos speakers even have the voice control built right in. It's perfect for playing podcasts. Or Music while you cook in the kitchen because I'm obsessive. I personally use sonos speakers all over my house and I use them every every day but so does isn't just for the home. They recently launched another groundbreaking speaker. It's called the Sonos move and it's a portable smart speaker. You can bring with you wherever you go. It's waterproof and has up to ten hours of battery life so it's ready for almost any adventure and as I just demonstrated Sonos even built in automatic tuning technology to optimize is the sound for whatever environment you're in you'll be amazed at the positive impact quality speakers can have in your life so make your world sound better with Sonos go to Sonos who knows DOT COM to learn. More this episode's mystery sound is sponsored by Sonos the wireless sound system for brilliant. Sound anywhere her here. It is it again if you think you know what that sounders this let us know at the web address. Mystery Dot Twenty K.. Dot Org if you get it right you'll be entered to win one of our world famous Super Soft Twenty Thousand Hertz. T shirts stick around to the the end of the show to hear the reveal of last episode's mystery sound when creating the music of seinfeld composer. Jonathan Wolf took a revolutionary approach for each episode he built a music around Jerry's opening and closing monologues and added unique transitions between scenes. This means that no two episodes are alike. Even the bass sound itself has changed over the course of the show. The SEINFELD old base progressed evolved. In fact there are multiple seinfeld basis throughout the show. It became a thing around my office for my staff to leave me gift samples to be into Seinfeld accused. It made it more fun for Seinfeld. Connoisseurs they note took POW the Seinfeld based sound change from season to season and from episode episode. Sometimes as for the actual melodies the early season transition music tends to stay a lot closer to the melody of the main theme song. Like this in the later seasons the base fills get a lot wackier. The era also plenty of opportunities to branch out from the main theme depending on what the script called for about a week before an episode begins. Shooting shooting each production department receives a script so they can prepare wardrobe. Props set dressing my music. Editor would read the descript in database a to do list of music pieces and or on stage music assistance. That this episode. Sometimes it's necessary to pre produce music before they shoot the scenes for example. When there's on Camera Morris singing or dancing I would need to create the music recordings far enough in advance? So the other departments the actors dancers choreographer director camera the crew had time to prepare for the shoop for example I had create the instrumental tracks for Jason Singing. Believe it or not. George isn't at home in advance for playback during the audience. Shoot Ettelaat George at home. Veep Kramer's head banging metal bersell Rochelle the musical Kramer's photo shoot of a semi naked. George David also in post is the time to create underscore music that heightens dramatic or emotional scene or serves serves as a comedic device in the hot tub episode. Elaine wanders the cold nights streets upset about her writer's block doc. The music is at first worried and then at the end triumphant as she solves her Himalayan walking shoes assignment. All right my heartaches put my feet. My feet are resilient God I took off my heels and put on my. We're the sentimental music that plays when George and leader Gerry. Watch happy couples on the here and decide to get married On seinfeld cinematic action music with chasing's became Thang Jerry. JC Newman the cable. Guy Chasing Kramer in the geriatric bike gang chasing George. The German tourists chasing Kramer and that became a recurring Seinfeld. Comedy comedy tradition. I always scored the Seinfeld chases in post as if they were serious. Dramatic chases the same with Jerry's dream sequence Tarantino. You know asked death scene in the baby shower or in the frogger when Jerry runs from the locker you get the idea. There's these moments for me to do over the top silly movie underscore and and so there was music in pre production. There's music and post production and sometimes my duties were onset because of the fast paced filming schedule. Jonathan typically had just a single day to complete each episode in general for normal episode. I liked one full calendar day between receiving an episode and delivering finished music. It was a hectic schedule but all that work paid off opt Seinfeld became a smash hit and stayed that way all the way through its final season. The one thousand nine hundred finale had seventy six million viewers making it one of the most. I watched finales of all time. It's just such an interesting point in television history. And it's like working on Mary Tyler Moore Ores going back and you're done the Lucy show the TV show captures a wide enough audience. It becomes a shared memory for a whole generation. The show's theme song can be a huge part of that often. The theme not only reflects the show's sensibilities but also welcomes the audience by bridging the gap between the show set and the viewers yours living room but the cheers theme. Does that so well. Sometimes you you really feel welcome to that show because of the theme a TV theme like no other production element transport you into the world of the show itself Yawn TV themes are woven into the fabric of our personal experiences like the soundtrack of our lives. Familiar themes like Seinfeld serve as pop up cultural touchstones marking times and places in our lives for me. Those lifeline markers include themes like mission. Impossible Awesome Pink Panther L.. Bill Search for my kids. It's probably the friends theme song people hold warm and fuzzy connections to the TV themes in their memories For the millions of Seinfeld fans out there. The show's music will always hold a special place in their hearts. So what's took to work on something so monumental is great. I mean the thing with Jonathan was he'd been in the business five or six years longer than me as a a young guy I was looking to break in and learn the ropes and he was just so helpful he started many careers. Everybody who worked for him after after me and at the same time I was there has gone too big Hollywood careers and it's all because of his mentorship and his guidance so he was really a giving person he was jealous of the success he shared it. I'm happy that the seinfeld music became a unique identifying signature for the show it became Seinfeld's sonic brand and that satisfies me a lot that even apart from the show. Even when there's no picture to go with it may recognize it as being Seinfeld theme around Twenty Thousand Hertz is hosted by me Dallas Taylor and produced out of the studios of defacto sound a sound design team dedicated to making television film in game. Sound incredible find out more at defacto. SOUND DOT com. This episode was written and produced by Casey Emily. Then me Dallas Taylor with help from Sam snead. It was sounded by Soren Beijing. It was designed to Mix by Burger and Colin Varney special thanks to our guests. Jonathan Wolf and Steve Lack. Jonathan says he loves hearing from FANS THE FANS. Find me on my instagram facebook. It's easy to find me. My my handle is seinfeld music guy. So if you're listening to this and you want to reach out to me please do how respond and you can. And get in touch with Steve through his website. Steve Lack Dot Com. Finally I also love your feedback. You can reach out to me and the rest of the team through facebook twitter or by writing high at Twenty K.. Dot Org also. If you haven't checked out our website you are really missing out. Be sure to check it out at Twenty K.. Dot Org thanks for listening an arm and a leg is an exciting podcast. All about the cost of healthcare. Look I know what you're thinking. How could a show about healthcare? Be Interesting but trust me an arm and a leg does the impossible. It makes a learning about healthcare fun. The show is super smart. Art Answers the questions. We all have about healthcare like how to drug prices get so high and why do some things end up costing you more when you have insurance every episode it features amazing stories and fun characters like the journalist who figured out his medical device with spying on him. An arm and a leg can also help you make informed decisions. They tell you about scams to avoid smart questions to ask and even ways you might save a ton of money mostly an arm and a leg leaves you feeling like you're in good company dealing with healthcare can and suck but we're all in it together and Armenta leg. Is there to help you out. Subscribe to an arm and leg. Wherever you get your podcasts? Thanks again to Sonos for sponsoring this entire episode. Also you can find special offer. Codes from all of our great sponsors at Twenty K.. Dot Org slash slash sponsors. We rely on their amazing support. So help us by helping yourself to those amazing offers again. You can find those at Twenty K.. Dot Org slash sponsors congratulations to jared Ford Manson. Who by the way was the only person to get last episodes? Mystery sound right. Here's the reveal. That was the sound of heavy wind blowing through the San Diego Central Library. The architecture of this building was just right to create this eerie. Howl as the wind moved through it I highly recommend checking out a video of this on Youtube again? That was the San Diego Central Library. Finally you can receive your very own ad feet of the show by setting up a recurring monthly donation. It's super easy and it helps us to make these shows just had to donate dot twenty K.. Dot Org select your amount and you'll immediately receive your very own ad free feet again. That's donate Dot Twenty K.. Dot O._R._G.. Thanks.
Episode 38- Building An Iconic Sound with Jonathan Wolff (Part One)
"Jerry made it clear. This is an extraordinary show and the music Ford will be very important. Described to me a sound design problem. He wanted a catchy recognizable signature. Music theme would play along with his comedy monologue. But that would not interfere with the audio of his standup material. In the late eighties theme music was kind of generic sampling. Technology was in its infancy and I was eager to be on the bleeding edge of that instead of using drums. Percussion trumpets or whatever. I tried to capture that Quirky New York energy using digital samples of finger snaps tongue lip noises to accompany him kind of like this in. That became the voice the. Sonic brand of Seinfeld Day for the sound marketing. Podcast I have the pleasure of speaking with Jonathan Wolf. He wrote the theme song for the show. Seinfeld Game-changer he's on my opinion so welcome to the show. Jonathan thanks gene. Thanks your kind words. So let's just Kinda dig right in. I have listened to several different recordings of you talking about how the show came about how the being came about. But I I would love for you to kind of delve into that and tell the story of of how you came up with this iconic sound that matched this iconic. Show my good buddy comedian. George Wallace told me to expect a call from his Buddy Jerry. Seinfeld yes in real life Jerry Seinfeld and has a best friend named George. It's George Wallace and and Jerry's first phone call to me. Jerry made it clear. This is an extraordinary show and the music for it will be very important. They had already done a pilot for Seinfeld or at the time. It was called the Seinfeld chronicles and the composer did not hit the ball as hard as he should have and so they were looking to change the music so in Jerry called. He described to me a sound design problem. It wasn't so much a music thing he envisioned the Oakland credits of his show to center on Jerry Performing Standup comedy relating to the story. Line of the episode. He wanted a catchy recognizable signature. Music theme it would play along with his comedy monologue but that would not interfere with the audio of his stand up material now. Gina. In the late eighties theme music was kind of generic. There was a Lotta says. He's sexy phones and a lot of melodies and silly lyrics guilty. I created a lot of that kind of music's but I knew it wasn't GonNa work in this case that combined with my adopted philosophy about that time of getting out of the pile you know. There's so many composers in La and they're all so good. This is like a pile of us if you went into anybody's office at the time. People had demo cassettes demo. Cd's and they be on these offices in piles representing pilots and people. So I decided I get out of these piles and one of these piles was a creative pile that I just described sampling technology was in its infancy and I was eager to be on the bleeding edge of that so I had this phone call from Jerry Seinfeld. It was not a big job. They only had four episodes four episodes my entire career. I never heard of a show only having four episodes. That's not an order. That's an insult. Some of his comedy material and notice the Jerry's delivery has a unique funny rhythm to it the pacing of his words phrases inflections. He has a musical quality and I based the rhythm of the Seinfeld theme on the rhythms of his speech patterns. You know how good rapper has certain rhythms in speech pattern. So does Jerry. His voice became the melody of the theme and I built the rest of the music around him instead of using drums and percussion trumpets or whatever. I tried to capture that Quirky New York energy using digital samples of finger snaps tongue. Let noises to accompany him kind of like this. Organic nature of these sounds helps them to blend well with the human nature of Jerry's speaking voice. I wanted to be homogeneous as if the music was just part of his performance the prominent baseline of the seinfeld theme in theory. It's principles are in an audio range that do not compete with his human voice since his standup comedy was going to be different. Tweak HIS MELODY. Each week would be a variation on the theme voice. Jokes tells would be different so the theme had to be adapted each week to fit his routine. I- architectured the music to be manipulated bull in a modular fashion to match the timing of Jerry's lines the Seinfeld music components those elements remain basically the same from week to week but since the monologues were always different each week. His human voice melody was like a variation that I had to accompany now. After a few seasons we abandoned the opening and closing monologues. To give more time for the episodes but I was still able to use that quirky seinfeld music and it was still recognizable as Seinfeld. Even though we didn't have monologues anymore the bass sound itself in the late eighties slap bass had not yet achieved celebrity status as a Solo Instrument. It was buried in FUNK MUSIC. I brought it forward. Put It on. The table illuminated it and made it a solo instrument in that became the voice. The sonic brand of Seinfeld. I think that that's the that's the really brilliant part was that you came up with a theme but the theme was altered every episode and innate came and recurred in between like changing scenes. I just I think that that right. There is the heart of the idea of creating a sonic brand foundation. And once you have that as long as you keep those elements somewhere in the midst of things you have so much freedom to floor and that sound can just take a life of its own and it really truly becomes. I think a character in the show. Well thank you if it's done right and given enough time to speak his voice a good thing. We'll do that and I used that notion a sonic branding as a marketing tool for myself to get out of other piles. I was not always the best composer in the room. There were times when I was competing for an I met with composers who I considered my superiors so I did not want to compete just simply based on our musical superpowers. Yeah you have superpowers superpowers. How am I gonNA get this job instead of you and sometimes this would work? I would tell the exact producer was interviewing me that I see. You're looking at these other folks and they're excellent composer view. Just want good music. Hire one of them. You'll be happy I do something completely different. I will create for you a sonic brand an earworm so unique that it will instantly identify your show like a signature people from the other room with their header greater. We'll hear this out on an a Pavlovian response will be. Let's watch that at and you don't have to be looking at the TV. You could draw somebody in from the kitchen. They're making a sandwich and they don't know what they're going to watch next but then they hear that Seinfeld theme they know exactly what it is and they're like oh I'm going to tune in or I'm not going to tune in but it will bring them to the device that because the company the production company wants you to go to. It's a great form of marketing being your listeners or smart so you know that what? I just did that little drama logue. I just did. Did you know their style? And their substance there was no substance. There was all shallow plastic artificial but in that moment gina in that Nanosecond I had successfully separated myself from the others. And maybe there's five people being considered. I'm one of them at that point. It's me or the others. So now I've got a fifty percent chance instead of twenty percent that I'd have it was just if it was equally divided so that was one trick that I use. I like I said I was not always the best composer but I knew how to close the deal theme music like you mentioned. It serves a number of functional and practical roles in the success of a TV show. And if you want we can talk about that. Well I did want to ask you because you made made a mention about that. The only Episodes that were picked up four episodes which is enough to joke. But I agree with you I live. I live in the L. A. Area. That is pretty strange that they would only be picked up. Four episodes and it would just like slowly stagger into more episodes. What made you take the job in? The first place was it. Because you're like here's an opportunity for me to you know. Put myself apart from all the other composers. That are out there. Was there something about Jerry? That was interesting to you. What was the draw if it was only four episodes? What was the draw? George Wallace and I are really good friends in. I knew about his best friend Jerry for for a long time. We had just never met but George put it to me like my friends in the music. Not Working. Can you help them out so it was? It was job I got paid for it and I was happy to have the job and you know obviously now. I'm really happy of the job at the time. It was not a great job. I was doing okay. I had a couple of hits shows on the air already. I was doing every week married with children. And WHO's the boss? I didn't really need a show that the network showed such little faith in that they only ordered force. I didn't really need this job but I was happy do it any friend of George is a friend of mine and he seemed like a nice enough guy called me on a Saturday and I pitched him the idea. That look we need to really treat your voice with a lot of respect otherwise if you have a really melodic theme it's a recipe for an audio conflict and he listened intelligently to that is as I work will come on over. I'm alone I'm here in my office. Come on over. A little work is up. You can watch and he did. He's he's really Nice Guy. Who's he hung around? The girlfriend brought us burritos. That was how I created the Seinfeld theme with him. They're going just kind of in amazement about that whole sampling thing and the lips in the finger snaps and I I mentioned to about lips and tongue noises can we do that is that legal is at music find out so that is why I really really wanted to take. This job is because of the relationship. I had and still have with George Wallace. I've also heard the story about how Larry David almost made you leave the room when they were out of a meeting through you out of a meeting because it seemed he believed in the theme song even more than you did at that point. What do you think sold? Larry David by the white your impression. David is awesome But what what was it that you think just sold Larry. This is it. We can't do anything else. What was it Larry does not like to be told what to do? That's more of the truth. Then he was in love with the music he'd there was a long list in the of the story. The please do. Larry wasn't even there when I created the theme. Jerry was there and Jerry's happy with it and I put it up against his comedy video that he had from an HBO special and it worked. Pretty well and Jerry called Larry on the phone and just held the phone up to the in the air so we can hear it on. The speakers. Injuries really liked us. Who Do you think Larry Larry said? Yeah Yeah Yeah. That sounds. That sounds funny. I liked that that was the entire approval process until we got picked up for another season season two. I think it was that Warren Littlefield had some notes he was headed an NBC. At the time by the way I love worn his greg. I did seventeen series with worn along fine. This not bad about Warren. He's just doing job and I was invited to. This meeting where Warren was going to give his notes that if you want season two this is what you're going to have to change. And the reason I was invited because they were given a heads up. That music was on the list Warren again. A Smart Guy articulate intelligent very successful. He knows what he's doing said to. What is this music is is it? What are those instruments? Can we not afford real music? It's it's weird. It's distracting is annoying. Pretty set the word annoying. Larry's eyes lit up a and that's when he decided he was gonNA defend a guy said to Larry and our boss was Glenn Pad Nick who is head of TV for Castle Rock. And I just we huddled with me and Laurean Glenn and I said look guys. I'll change the music. It's not a big deal for me. I no no events here I I just want the show to get picked up. GimMe a couple hours. And Larry was so mad at me that I would even consider caving end. Is this request. He started yelling at me and pointing at the doors. What get done here get out and I looked at Glen Glenn just kind of shrugged and said Look Larry. If you feel strongly about this Al Becca. I'll defended Israel for fruits move. Get Out in the meeting and the meeting ended with the music stayed in the picture by the way that long list of notes. I saw the list. I'm think Larry ended up changing any of it. I mean there's casting issues. Storyline Issues Wardrobe. I'll let you change anything. So it wasn't so much that he loved the music he just didn't like being told to change the fact that the network had so little faith in this show and that there was only four episodes. I wonder if this is you. And everyone involved really like story wise musically everything gave you guys a freedom to try something that wasn't explored because no one was really telling you okay. Well we have to cross this t dot this I and you are correct to explore. You just met his correct. They really weren't paying that close attention to us. And Larry was able to make the show the way Larry wanted and I was able to make the music the way I wanted. And it all worked pretty well mostly because we were not a hit show and they other things to do there were people at NBC who believed in the show. They're individuals who did warn was one of them. Stu was one of them. But in general it didn't test well. It had no numbers and no viewers. It was where they weren't sure what to do with it. Where do we? What kind of a time slot to do we find with this? Because time sitcoms were not like this they were not conversational and is intricate as Seinfeld was so yes you hit on something important. It was a camelot era of being able to have certain freedoms for me that manteaux being able to be weird and quirky as a show went forward the base evolved more nasal more angular more wacky more twelve tone. The Basic Seinfeld baseline is just a one quarter. Four card is so sophomore and so simple that any nine year old complex and as it stands simple it does not really require meter to hold water. It could stop and start to make allowances for Jerry's jokes and in that way I was able to forget everything I learned about composition from the time I was seven and create very simple thing and sometimes got works. That's not always the case. Though you learn the roles so that you can break them. If you have to really really know the rules here let me here folks all the time trying to know be new and guy but you have to understand how human years work and how transient the at. The time broadcast transmissions had each network had unique algorithms for compression that they used okay so I had to get used to and I had. I chose on every network I had to mix differently defensively so it was still good on each of the networks and I made friends with those engineers that came up with the compression schemes so that I would know how to do it for example that base when you hear it in reruns on TV it. It's slaps out smacking in between the forehead. It sounds louder than dialogue. Because I use certain selective phase manipulations in it. And for before you do that you have to know the rules. Otherwise you might run into phase cancellations. Oh that sounds exhausting. The different okay I was. I'm a nerd and the dumb assuming you are too but they will need to to at least do something unique for that theme seems I always philosophically thought that were not given the Gravitas that they should. I should point out. I'm fully retired. Have no dog in this fight anymore. I'm not trying to convince anybody to pay me more money. You know. Seeing music among other things is a first impression sales tool to help pitch a new show to an audience. Sometimes it's important to the show's identity and in helps tell the story a theme like the fresh Prince of Bel Air which is not one of mine but it tells the story and bridge there in into the into the story of the fresh prince of Bel Air Seen has entertainment value as a presentation tool just like in the theater. The Voice Booming Voices Ladies and Gentlemen as the theater curtain rises the for the performance to prepare the audience for entertainment experience. A TV theme announces each episode. It heightens your sense of anticipation and draws you into that mind space. You visit while watching the show. Tv theme sometimes identifies location or historic period of the show for example my theme for saved by the Bell. The college years helped us transition the lives of those characters from high school into college in off of the theme not only reflects the show's sensibilities but also welcomes the audience by bridging the gap between the show set and the viewers living room alike. Here's another theme. I did not right. Kinda like the cheers theme does for each episode so beautifully it just welcomes you into that. Bar. You know one of my first teams that I really noticed in love and paid attention to and always young was welcome back kotter where John. Sebastian actually used the words. Welcome in it and it made you want to sit in that classroom. So in that way TV themes become woven into the fabric of our personal experiences like the soundtrack of our lives in familiar themes can also serve as pop cultural touchstones marking times and places in our lives for me. Those lifeline markers. Besides the one I just mentioned include like mission impossible and Pink Panther Sanford and son Dragnet Peter Gunn Beverly Hillbillies as I say these words people of a certain age are hearing that music in having warm Fuzzy Smith for younger people. Maybe for my kids age might be the friends theme song again which I didn't write people hold these warm fuzzy connections to TV themes in their memories. It's the reason why you get some rock bands recording covers. I hope you enjoyed part one of my interview with Jonathan Wolf. I believe that there is a very valuable lesson to be learned with the marketing of show. Where movie in comparison to marketing a brand this episode. I'm a huge fan of Jonathan's work and what he did on. Seinfeld is just too perfect. Example Diskette audio is power as I stated time and time again and we should hold value in what our brand sounds like. Remember we all make sounds? Let's make him on purpose for more of the marketing podcast. Don't forget to follow subscribe and share. You can find us on spotify. Google play iheartradio Pandora institure for inquiries on producing and developing your own podcast or for on. Sonic earning sonic granting consultation availabilities. You can find me at dreamer productions. That's D. R. E. A. An art productions dot Com Lincoln and facebook. You can also email me at Gina J. E. and an a at dreamer productions dot com all links will be provided in the show. This episode was produced Dreamer Productions and hosted written and edited by me Gina Item. Let's make this world of sound more intriguing more unique and more and more on brand.
PGA Tour Begins New Driver Testing Protocol This Week | Part 2 of 2 With Abraham Ancer
"And welcome back to fully equipped. This is temporary truce back off joined by Jonathan Wolf from both DOT com. Jonathan had a week off last week. How how you doing but beyond I'm recharged but a lot went on the phone. We were only agree how and yeah I mean I was dodging hurricanes. I think you were riding rides at Disney. Ryan's riding rides with the kids at Disney up how that go L. Bedtime good week off. You know actually I I would venture to say that it was probably the best Disney experience ever because of the hurricane right off the first couple of days literally. We wrote some of the rides four or five times in a row. Oh without having to get off. I always yeah it was so cool I mean just just not a lot of people you could kind of walk into whatever you wanted it was it was awesome. The kids love it but now they're going going to think that every time you go to Disney that you're gonNA supposed to ride teen rides and see all the princes. It's GonNa be that easy which is like shooting sixty seven and then he show up the next day and that doesn't quite go according to plan exactly yeah so for all your listeners out there we are face to face this week and actually Jonathan's living room amazingly It's a it's kind of funny. We've recorded these podcasts. We've been in a utility closet in Dallas. I've been in car in Beverly Hills. I think you've been in your car off the side of the car on the side of on the side of the road recording You've been podcast studio in Scottsdale little bit everything right i. I think this just goes to show you that that we we never are are in one place for very long. Yeah traveling always always trying to find the answers for you. Folks out there when it comes to golf gear so What do we have on TAP for today. Let's dive right into the PG two hundred going on last week the week right so you've got the tour introducing goosing driver testing protocols this was not for public consumption. I got the memo actually from. PGA Tour player got to figure out what this all means. There is a lot got to unpack with with this new testing Tommy Flea who had going back to mutter that is candy in Finnish picked up off Ebay You've got a funny the story about the way that you work with guys when you when you're doing putter testings fittings I. I think that's definitely something we WanNa talk about the week. Calloway's new MAC MAC daddy five jaws wedge as recording this on Tuesday has just released discussed that a little bit couple listener questions then give you a chance to remember a the mentor somebody that that's near you that that passed here recently so should be a packed episode today. Yes a lot to unpack as you said and man. We picked a bad week to take the week off. We probably could have loaded up content for a few pods based off of everything. That's happened in the last ten days in the equipment world but let's start off with the new testing protocols. what what do you have for us there yeah so let's let's. Kinda start with with what's gone on in the last couple the months for years the PGA tour would allow the USDA to come on site at random events probably not that random throughout the year and they were allowed to go through the equipment trucks and test. The driver heads that were on the trucks. sounds like the US was doing a lot but but really they're just testing heads that are we're on a truck. These are not heads that are in play at that moment so you really can't get a full picture of what exactly is going on in terms of of CT eighteen that's characteristic time which now a lot of people who weren't aware of what characteristic time in the Spring Lake effect off the driver face they know what it is now because of what happened at the open championships. Andrew Shaw Flea was the first one he came out and in kind of called the Arna out initially backtracked a little bit after he cooled down but you know they tested his driver while he was over there for the open championship in it came back as non-conforming it was just too hot that was too hot by one point and when we're talking about microseconds here you know it doesn't take a lot if the machines are calibrated the same way you know you you could could run into a situation where you have a driver that might be conforming on one machine but hot in illegal on another so as you and I discussed on previous pods. It opens up Pandora's box right now. We're in a situation where people know that. Some of these drivers are not conforming. They WANNA know if players onto our using conformed drafts I think players that are out there want to know if the if the guys that they're competing against are using non-conforming drivers so a memo was created by the PG to a release release two players again not Republican suction but I picked us up from PJ player was nice enough to give it to me the Bj tour is going to be putting in place place new driver testing protocol now. This is just for the drivers what they're going to be doing is they're going to have each manufacturers. GonNa have one appoint a representative. I'M GONNA assume zoom that it's going to be their their head to Rep. WHO's GonNa be that point guy. WHO's GonNa be on site. WHO's GONNA be there for for testing and also oh you're gonNA have the player involved. Who's going to have his driver? Tests now. Were instead of testing drivers on the truck. We're going to test drivers that the guys are using week-to-week. This'll be happening this week starting at the green bar in. Oh by the way this is something that you voluntarily half do so if you're playing the tournament if they come in they knock on your door and they ask is your driver. You've got to give it to him. So what does this testing involved so they're going to test the CIT on these drivers there three colors that you're going to be given depending on what they find out. Greens clubs conforming yellow means. It's still conforming but it's close and red means that it's non-conforming you. GotTa pull it out of play. That's Kinda the gist of what we're looking at here but there's a lot of questions that I asked him one of them is. They said that they're going to test. These drivers win in the players are on site now. Not everybody gets outside on a Monday what happens if they say. WanNa Test Johnson striper and he doesn't show up to Wednesday and they just randomly show up and say hey give us your driver and it comes out as being read. He's been using it for a while. No testing and driver on a Wednesday leaves almost no time to work with the backup driver. Most of these players have backup drivers. Some of them have backups to their backups. but bottom line is there's a reason why the gamers in play because they have one hundred percent confidence in that Gamer the amount of difference between their Gamer and they're backup episode miniscule especially to the average golfer out there but to the to the guys that are competing. There's a reason that that game play asking that player to switch to their backup backup literally the night before the the first event are the first round of the event that it's going to be very unsettling to a lot of players so then as you just as mentioned then how do you do this. Do you test them on Mondays well. I'd say sixty percent of the field is available on Monday right is travel day. A lot of the big names going to be showing on Monday to it to tournament so so d- do it on Tuesday. I mean there there. There's a whole I mean. I'd be very interested to know how they're we're GONNA have. They're going to execute this from from the logistics part of this but then national get into here just a little bit exactly what is the protocol that they're using. I I think the most amount of transparency that they can provide will definitely set the equipment companies as well as the players at ease and I think it it also you know to to the to the golf fans out there that are interested in the sort of thing the most amount of transparency that they can provide is going to it's a good look for them as they're going as they're navigating through all these equipment issues with conforming non-conforming equipment it is it is a good look. I think that this is a step in the right direction listen. I'm surprised I'm surprised at the. PGA Tour is doing this. I honestly thought that win the whole issue with the R. N. A. N. Zander a couple other players issues drivers failed at the open championship. I kind of figured this was a one and done. The two were just kind of. Let it die. You know twenty four hour news cycle. Just move on but listen. They're you and I talked about this off air. There are some things that that I think are red flags here for this whole process you know again yes there. This is a good start but you're only testing select players in. Here's here's something that stuck out to me when I was reading this says tests all the testing program will test the clubs in use by the players on the PGA tour out of necessity. It is important to note that the focus of the program is not on the individual player but rather on ensuring conformity of each club model and type throughout the season as such selection of players to be tested will be primarily based on driver usage via Daryl survey in order to test a thorough sample of clubs in use on the PGA tour now that to me doesn't say that they're going to be testing everybody. That's not random. No that means that they're are going to be testing the ones that have the most usage which is callaway Taylormade titleist who is now started to move up. I mean they've been tops. The driver uses jet. Tour events is previous season. So what we're saying here is that is that Scotland has never getting tested number. One is using a driver which is not as is widely used out on the tour and he's you know towards the lower end of driving distance ranks so what this means is that if you're calloway where tailor-made player player who hits the ball a long ways. Your driver's probably going to be tested pretty frequently. I'm not sure if that checks the random box in my book I mean I don't think it does look out of the top ten players right now on the official world golf rankings only two of them rice into Shambo Cobra driver. Justin Rose Hama driver. Everybody else is either using Taylormade callaway titleist so I think there's a pretty pretty good chance that if you're using one of those drivers you're going to get. You're going to get asked to have your driver tested this year again this to me does not seem random they they say that again and this is something else that that kind of bothers me. They're going to be doing the testing. Were only the player and the representative are going to know the results. I think this should be like Nascar in like every other sport. If if a guy on tour has a hot driver just it should it should be out there in the recent years. Here's the reason why I don't think that I don't think that it's it's good to call player cheap but I think if you start having the same guy with hot drivers I think maybe it starts to scare some of those guys that are are trying to see how close they can get to the limit. You know if you've got a green driver and I thought it was funny. Somebody mentioned this on social media. They said if you have a green driver something that's conforming not kind of bumping up close to that to that US GAAP limit they said you should go back to the truck and get a yellow hello. I want an orange one I wanted I wanted orange. You know like an orange light. I want I want. I want an orange or something. That's yellow trending towards read right right. I mean and look I mean the difference between a green and yellow driver maybe is is yard or two but I think we're talking to her players players and from talking to two reps it's kind of the placebo effect yet shot if even if his driver is bumping up to the US j-league limit if they feel like they have an advantage that may be another guy doesn't in its legal they're gonNA. They're gonNA jump out anyway the fact that they're doing driver usage though based off Daryl survey and not just randomly pulling drivers and that they're not gonNA be releasing these results so we'll never know but but Kinda like this whole situation was Andrew in the Ra. I wonder if I wonder if these results are gonNA leak out if somebody has a couple of drivers at fail and it gets around I mean word gets out out on the PGA. Tour Chair does it. It certainly does so it. You know you may be here about this throughout the year but I'll be curious to see how often they're doing these tests because they said it's going to be at just select tournaments. Mrs Kind of my hope is that this is the start of something bigger and that they they eventually go to testing all drivers. I think they need to do this. something again that also doesn't really sit with me. Is they said that all clubs that are. GonNa be assist to have serial numbers recorded. I know from a fact talking to wraps that. That's not the case that not all the drivers. PG To have serial numbers so that's GonNa have after to change there. There are a lot of things that give me pause but I think at the end of the day the fact that they have driver testing now the PGA tour in it's not just just the USGS coming onsite three or four times a year and testing heads that are never being used by the players. I think it's a step in the right direction. I understand the serial number requirement you know with with all all these folks. The difference between their Gamer and they're backup is almost non discernible to the naked eye. They're built with the exact same components. They're built the exact same way to the same specs backs what would stop a player from giving their backup driver as their Gamer when they're gamers actually their backup and that way they can kind of circumvent the test this game of honor but Ryan bring up a great point here that I mean you could do that if you didn't if you didn't have a serial number so I understand Dan the reason for the serial number but then that goes back to the point you just made. which is you know? There are some drivers being played out there without them so does that mean that a hey. Dr Without a serial number by default as non-conforming now. We'll have to see one thing that I I would bring up about. This is once again into that transparency. How how many machines are they using. Are they using the same machines week after week. How many tests they run. Do they run multiple tests into they average the test or do they take the maximum. CT over the multiple tests that have been run. I think it'd be a smart move for the arena and the USDA and the PGA tour everybody involved in this to actually you know specify what they're testing protocols are. I think it will set a lot of people at ease and and and make them understand that you know there that this isn't and something that the results that are derived from these tests know that there's any room for discussion so to speak in once again full transparency Ansi in this especially with the dollars at stake in the way that these players you know the way that they have to navigate these these equipment. Lebanon rules these days. I think it will go a long ways to be as transparent as possible. I hope so something else just kind of going through the memo again it said that each test. I will take approximately fifteen minutes conducted by a member of the US g equipment standard staff and performed on a pendulum device in accordance with published us. She test protocols recalls but again it goes back to you know the manufacturers aren't GonNa have access to this to this device. They're going to have access to their own and as we found out ZANDER's driver his driver was conforming on Calloway's machine right but when they tested it on the Arnaiz machine it was flagged so so again there are a lot of hurdles that are going to have to be cleared here again. I think the biggest one here is if you're GONNA be testing on non-competition days. How exactly did you do that at this is what worries me because I and I hope I hope the PG to Rehearse Jeff considered this because you can't can't tested guys driver on a Tuesday and expect victim to in twenty four hours. Maybe a little bit more than twenty four hours finding new driver we you guys have backups backups of the backup but we know they don't feel the same. I remember store years ago. Kenny Perry had an atoms driver that he absolutely loved airline broke and this was a driver that he was nails with. They built them the exact same driver everything down to down to the Graham. Nanny put into his hands and he hit it in. He doesn't feel the same right. You know again it. Whether it's a placebo effect or or what you know the Gamer drivers the Gamer driver for reason and and so when you give a guy short window to find a new driver especially when you're talking about not really randomly picking players you know picking picking base off at usage. It's a it's a slippery slope. You know getting into the other topic we mentioned at the the front end of the of the pod a Let's get into Tommy Fleetwood sputter this you know I'm a potter guy and you know interestingly enough. we'll have part two to Abraham Answers interview later on in the podcast and one of the questions I asked him towards the end of our interview was have you ever picked up or used a Oh shot putter well here we go and actually I know and this was actually really cool because you know I think we've heard the stories about players struggling potter just getting sick and tired of using whatever's in their Kerber tation driving to a random golf shop picking up I think the Oregon that that first six out to me is Jim furic when the Fedex Cup with with a with a yes putter when he was in Boston went to a random like discount pro golf shop Hicks up this yes potter in in ends up winning the Fedex Cup. It's the PADRAS thirty nine bucks him and undone and return. Mo- ejected pretty pretty good return. Yeah I would I would say is probably the best return ever but but yeah but yes so yeah. I remember the one thing about it. That fewer talked about was had a nick in topline intellectually the Nick Lachey. You'd like the way the Nick unbelievable for for alignment in so you know it's it's again what whatever works up. fleetwood actually didn't go out and find this putters caddied it infamous which I love you in great guy he in this. This is a cool story he he wanted to get the putter that Lee would used growing up as a as a kid in this odyssey defects to Bob Way. It's got a really interesting look to it with you and I both pointed out that the neck on this putter is not got your Standard Odyssey to ball blatantness definitely a Frankenstein job yeah. It's it's it's kind of a little of a slant neck with. It looks like a twist. Almost I posted photos up on on my social media. Jonathan are wall on on twitter. I took photos this putter back at Riviera win. Flea would would use it briefly used it a pebble beach but but so finish to try and find this putter for for his boss he went on Ebay picked it up for I for one hundred and nine dollars which initially when I was looking at him like one hundred nine bucks potter that that the the PGA Equipment Guide says has a resell value Allie of about thirty nine bucks even less than that for beat up once again this one. This one's got a pretty custom neck but he he buys his putter flea would re shafts. It regroups it not to get into the sharpie line yeah. This is the best part so on top of this potter. It's got it's got your unmistakable ccable white two white circles the two ball design and and finishes with a Sharpie drew a line in alignment line on the Tom believe which is so great and he does not like this is the crispus sharpie line you've ever seen and now it's pretty. It's pretty damn good. I'm going to say that it's it's pretty it's pretty damn good but but definitely not straight. fleetwood uses it briefly. puts it back in the bag. I believe leave that was in Switzerland and was just last week and in pots. I mean pretty much lights out for the first round with twenty one points. I mean money one pot when he what's what is that like to do that but again. It's I think it's a great story because it just goes to show you that that these players sometimes when you're struggling with the Potter in fleet was had a lot of success with that Odyssey white hot pro number three that he had been using before going to this tube laid. It just goes to show you that sometimes tim and I'm want you to get into this a little bit going back to something that you loved as a kid or you know. Maybe that you played in college legit. You had a lot of success with sometimes. It makes a lot of sense to go back to that model whatever it is. It's like it just kind of rekindle something in you. Just start putting better yeah and so so whenever you're getting fit for golf clubs you know one of the first things that should take place in the beginning of that process is an interview in a good club. Fitter is is going to ask you a lot of questions about your game about your current equipment. One of the questions that I always ask folks at the beginning putter fittings is looking back over your career here. Is there a putter that you've had that you performed exceptionally well with or that. You loved in especially when I've worked in. I had an opportunity opportunity to work with tour players. The interesting thing about that is is that I always start off testing. They're Gamer and then the second putter hotter than I'll test is a putter that is in a very similar design concept to that putter that they had a preference for back in the day. Whether it be no I I get the L. Ask that question to a lot of players and they'll they'll mention a zebra putter and then we'll go to a zebra style putter right so like a one of those mallets that has lines you know running alignment eight lines are running down the center of the club head making sure that the Hazel in next our similar as well. It's not just the head shape. It's also making sure that the to- hang the offset the next aisle all that all those features are similar but you know it's a chicken and egg. I conversation I think to some degree is that because it brings back confidence is it because it inspires confidence in a placebo thing what I've noticed does that the stroke dynamics actually change and the way the players release pattern the way that they make a putting stroke. That's really and so this is really interesting because I would. I ever you gotTA. Stop that that so chain in. It's kind of it's kind of made me think that that that type of putter that somebody putted with especially in their developmental two years playing the game the first four or five six years that they were playing especially as junior golfers do they start to groove patterns in their stroke into their stroke best upon the tools that they're using an based on what I've seen over the last you know ten years fitting golf clubs especially with elite players. There's I would say that. There's definitely something to that if somebody's using a mallet head with thirty degrees of toe hang in a special oh you know type of a single shaft bender what have you and we go back into that type of potter the interesting thing about it is that they're all of their stroke dynamics about the way that they make. They're putting stroke change for the better whether club faces coming in more square more consistently. They're getting you know better faced a path numbers their deviations are tighter so it's something we're thinking about. If you're struggling with your putter out there you know a lot US gravitate away from the putter that we've used for for many years because you almost don't think that it works after a while yeah you you miss a few pots and you start losing some confidence and breath and so the first thing that we do I think as players as we don't want to take ownership that are putting stroke or a brain and we WANNA blame it on the tool and so we changed the tool in the very first pod that we did. We asked Charles that question. What's the one one piece of equipment you wish that you probably hadn't changed and and you know Charles said it was. I wish I'd never changed my putter and so played against him. You've you've been said before. He was the most amazing putter you've ever seen when he was in high high school in 'em through his collegiate years so food for thought for all your you listeners out there if you do struggle with putting maybe trying in something that is in line with the putter that you used when you put it your best. You know even going back fifteen twenty years. It's definitely something we're thinking about. I think that there's some merit to the idea of it being a confidence factor and there's also a lot of merit to the fact that the stroke dynamics the way that you make putting stroke actually started to develop around that around that tool so Maybe we'll see a rush on on Ebay putters coming here soon so seriously I gotta look because being off the grid. I didn't even bother to take a peek and see but you'd have to think that that that to play if there's someone even if the price had I'd love to know how many pro shop putters in usage out on tour which brings me to my one of my favorite stories ever the great question would office are picking he can apply around bags and seeing I mean Gosh Change putter soft on PG tour. It's tough to keep tabs on everybody but there's just so I asked you this before. We started recording and I've never heard this story. I can't believe leave it so mark Calcavecchia. This is a story from back in the eighties. This was confirmed by the fellow that used to caddy for him. I can't recall exactly what style potter was. I I want to say it was a ping but he struggled with putting for a little while and picked up a golf shot putter messed around with it a little bit and this was actually down at around around my neck of the woods and he didn't he decided he wasn't GonNa put that putter and play but he was building confidence with it and he had his game and he went out and putted it horribly with his Gamer and he knew that if he kept gamer around in its condition that he would probably gravitate back to it as we've mentioned tour players tend to gravitate back towards the putter works so in order to make sure that he never switched back to his putter he tied the Putter to back act bumper of his car and he dragged it at the time the tour used to go from Durell up to the Honda classic they would go from from basically Miami to Fort Lauderdale. Oh and he dragged the putter behind his car. Oh my on the Florida turnpike don't give over got pulled over dragon his putter behind them and and the as the story goes the police officer you know was asked a question about why he was dragging putter behind his car and anyway answer that I don't know I don't know what the answer is. All I know is is. It's one of my favorite story. Sorry officer haven't misbehaving putter in yeah my putter so so needless to say that twitter never made it back in play but how it is one of my favorite stories and you know obviously the next week the pro shop putter went and play so it's one of my favorite stories about pro shop putters but I I wonder how many of our listeners have ever dragged a putter behind their car after missing a few important parts. I know I probably wanted to obviously you give you give me ideas now. The next the next time my putter misbehaves I'm just going to tie it to the back of my bumper and dragged along and see if that helps at all the Tigers putter has a bunch of bummed egg knicks bumps and I think it'd be dragged. If you drive your putter behind your car you might have a few more than Tigers Newport all right so so you know. Calloway has a new wedge coming out here Let's get into that and what are you. What what can you tell us about the new MD five jaws wench yeah I mean this. This is a wedge I if people are familiar with with Calloway's wedges I mean you don't you already know the Mac Daddy name and if if you're around for you're for awhile you probably know the Joss name as well this is this is a name that that calloway slapped on. It's ex series. jaws was as you think literally grip the golf ball sucked back lot lots of lots of bite in you know this was back in two thousand nine that they initially release this jaws groove and now with with Roger Cleveland being in charge they were totally ready to just go forward and call the new wedge the Mac Daddy five and they were in a presentation with Calcio brewer chip kind of hears about all the technology this new new groove that the they've designed and he says we gotta bring back the Joslin and it was something that that that Rodriguez I didn't even think about bringing back the jaws name with the switch so they slapped on the jaws again because of this group and this this groove is is what they're calling their most aggressive grew bits. It's right up begins the USDA legal limit what they've gone from is with Mac Daddy for you had a five degree group wall angle trying to allow people to visualize this if you look at the way that the groove kind of goes from the top in goes down to the bottom point or the group is that angle from top to where it kind of starts to angle off was a little bit more rounded with at five degrees angle still a lot of bite but maybe not as much as you could get now they're going. I went to a thirty seven degree which is razor sharp and actually actually admitted that when they took this to the machine shops they they initially told on look we. We're not GONNA do this. You've got to change some of your processes improved them because the first go around they had more than half the wedges that came off of off of the line were non-conforming because of this of this new wallow ankle so again. It's really really sharp nope. It's GonNa add eleven percent more spin which is about five hundred. RPM which the wedge I mean. It's a lot of spin this at this now this wall angles only going to be on the fifty four to sixty degrees. Because why do you need something that sharp aggressive on pitching wedge or a gap up wedge. Probably Never GonNa need much sip so that's one of the things that they're doing but but here is the process that it takes to create this new jaws group so so it takes roughly nine minutes to machine just the group. We're not talking about so for people that are familiar with with Calloway's wedges. They have a groove in group. which is these little micro grooves in the interesting? Thing is is that the those grooving grooves actually face outward our yes. I was at of innards which is different from a lot of design that brings me back to when Sergio a couple years back made that switch from his tailor-made wedges into the callaway wedges. We all know what happened to him at fifteen at Augusta suck number that it's a little bit yeah. I can't remember the score but that was a disaster. The first thing that my mind went to was wait a minute. Maybe this new groove designed that he's he's not really custom to. Maybe this is putting a little bit more spin on his shots than he's accustomed to playing with. These half wedge shots causing a little bit of that issue. I mean he goes after the golf ball yet. It gets down and he gets after yeah so with these new groups you know maybe he definitely wants to play some back pain yardages so what they were saying is. Is that it you're going to really noticed. Mrs Spite in this kind of stopping ability on on the shots from thirty to forty yards but again it takes nine minutes the machine just the groups They've got to replace the cutter the machine that's that's cutting these groups every fifteen heads. Oh Wow yeah and so that means that for the initial batch of wedges that Kelly well we just did they went through roughly fifty thousand cutters just to create this group designed. It's by far the tightest tolerances. Let's is that that Calloway's ever achieved one hundred percent of the wedges as you know. This is not going to be surprised but one hundred percent of the wedge leave the machine shop. We're going to be inspected for group Conformity Liberty Right because when you're dumping dot close to the legal limit in with something that sharpen aggressive you've gotta make sure every one of them is good to go so that's that's the big story here with this wedge is this new groove designed but they're also going to be coming out with a fifth grind option so Roger Cleveland and beginning a lot of requests for a allo bounce w grind the basically taking that wide sole w narrowing the he'll tighter fronta back radius. It's going to give you more increase for civility so if you open it up it's it's. GonNa be a little bit easier to get underneath it but if you're playing it for full shots you're you're going to be able to get all the benefits it's of that that full wide soul so this this new low bounce. W is just a complement to to the higher bounce w that they have still going to have the C. Grind which was was which was updated just a bit. You're GonNa have your ass grind. You're going to have your ex grind. comes into finishes a kind of a dark slate finish and then a a two or chrome so I I've seen him in person. I've got a couple in my closet. I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that and they. They look great but again. haven't haven't had a chance to hit him yet because the ones who semi were righty and I'm lefty so this is this is a problem that I have on a regular basis but the irony of that is so funny to okay by the way the fact that we've got one of the best gear guys in the world who gets stuff thrown at them probably weekly in it's all coming in right handed him when he can't even use it but here's the here's the funny thing. The reason why actually asked for the right handed stuff is used to take photos because I do my own photos. Just show different angles at the golf club. When I post the stories online I posted some with left handed clubs and people complained and said why why was I posting left left. The left had had a golfer. Come on but with the I decided to go back in Azariah so you're welcome. It just means that I have to wait a little bit longer to to test them but yet I'm. I'm really excited to test out this new jaaz group. If it's anything like the original it's skin a really add some some zip to the wedge and and I'm just going to go out there and probably hit thirty to forty yard. Lead shots is to see how it reacts but Yeah I want. I WANNA see how how it handles but but so far based on what I've I've heard from Roger Cleveland. It sounds like a sounds like a worthy design. I think you're going to see a lot of mountain tour yeah and and it's always been my opinion that when Roger Win over onto team callaway that the they may be of missed the mark in years past with promoting Roger Cleveland being their wedge designer. I mean we're talking about I. He's one of the one of the emir designers in the industry no and I agree and and I think they've done a much better job at least from what I've heard putting him front and center on this wedge. I think you'll see a lot more Roger Cleveland out there but I agree with you. You know when you have a guy with with his credentials yet. You want people to understand piss wedges and just being designed by a couple of of club designers in an office like you've you've got one somebody that has that has decades of credibility exactly has tried a lot of things that haven't worked knows what does for all of our listeners out there you know we we've we're we're are planning on having. Roger on the pot here in the next month or so the folks over callaway of said that they can definitely help us make that happen and would love to get him on the POD and pick his brain when it comes to wedge design obviously in collaboration with this MD Five Jaws launch just kind of find out about what he's learned through years years and years of making wedges for the best players in the world should be really interesting for our listeners out there so one more thing to him on the next thing which I think will interest people that are it's not playing a pitching wedge as part of an iron set. you know vocally has really made a name for itself in recent years by by having more players using vocal pitching wedge right. I've talked to Justin Thomas about it. He just says that it just gives them more controlled spin especially out of the rough. He really doesn't find the flyer's yet. mikey's he's used to seeing sometimes with with a pitching wedge out set. Roger pay particular attention to the shaping of the forty six forty eight fifty degree what you would consider to it'd be a pretty standard pitching wedge shrinking the head size from heel the toe so it's going to get a blend more with with an iron set for the guys use like an NBA or apex pro. You can now go in and get a Mac daddy five pitching skin. That's not going to have the same shaping as as Sandra Lob which I think that's something that if you are used the playing something other than a a stock wedge from her set it should interest people that do like Mac Daddy for you know good players. I definitely I just personally I liked the premium pitching wedge option instead of the set wedge so to speak remember going back many years ago when I was as with the folks with Taylormade this one rep recommendation I had with Brian Basil whose you know on their product team is is to consider options for forty forty six degrees which is considered the loft of pitching wedge by the older standards were still starting to see pitching wedges in the forty three degree range these days I keep getting stronger and stronger but the point here being is that for folks that like to use their pitching wedge around the Greens for a lot of chipping. They liked the flight shots from you know. Let's say a hundred ten yards you. WanNa fight one really low and in in try to hit different types of shots having something that is more in line with the the premium aftermarket wedges that you have in the rest of your bag. I think makes sense for that type of player. We're obviously talking about your more advanced player usually really that's. GonNa play that way for somebody. That's just blasting away at full swings with pitching wedges all day. It's probably best for that. Wedge to match what you have for your nine. Hundred and eight aren't as well but it's great to hear that they've one of the interesting things about those premium aftermarket pitching wedges as as you mentioned the shaping gets a little weird. Yep the size. Is You know the the blade length the size of the head the the shaping of that head going from heel to toe and the size of the head making sure that that blend seamlessly from the gap wedge into the nine iron. It's it's not easy to do so. I definitely want to get my hands on these. The the thing that I wanNA test is out of the rough at a wet conditions. Yes that's definitely where I think in when you start seeing these wedge technologies that are enhancing grooves and the stopping power is that playing into the whole bomb and Gouge ouch strategy. I think absolutely is guys are okay with missing fairways if it means that they have a half wedge shot as long as they can stop it out of the rough so looking forward to get my hands on these and tested them out seeing how they work with some of the players that we work with at Tru SPEC. I have a couple of rights for you. Tim Yeah you may have with me when we when we leave here so I think what's next on the agenda as probably some listener questions. Yep So we got. We got to this week first. This question is how often should you go through a full gabbing session gabbing session so when we're talking about a gap session that's really there are two parts of capping session. Shen one is just to be able to measure the distances. You hit each club. How should you go about doing that number. One you want to eliminate outliers so if you pull one pulled shot is due to a closed club face a closed club face will cause less loft therefore faster ball speed less spin so polls typically go longer than straight faced or square face shots so when you're doing gaping session you probably wouldn't eliminate some of the polls you probably also want to eliminate as someone pushes because just on the opposite side of the spectrum when you push shots or you know for right handed players leave shots out to the right that usually means the faces open so that may not be the best assessment of how far you're hitting that club because you have more loft on that face than he normally would with face being square so with the balls that struck online. I always like to get three or four balls with each club. That are struck solidly online. I always look at two numbers with players that we work with. I look at the average number in the maximum. I WanNa know what is the average average shot. They're gonna hit with it and then when they do have a shot that is going to a back pinna backhoe location. You WanNa play your maximum number that way. You're never hitting it over. Greens Greens are way more penalizing when you hit the ball over the green so playing that Max number two back then I think is is the best strategy strategy in most cases that you never hit over Greens and Short side yourself and then obviously you WanNa look for uniformity is far as distances so some players are a nine yard gap summer ten some eleven or twelve yard gaps. A lot of that depends upon club head speed the faster. Your club head speed the bigger gaps are going to be so if you're a slower speed player. You look at the gaps you know for. LPGA players the gaps are going to be a lot tighter than they will be for PGA tour player just because of the differences in speed so so making sure that you have uniformity in the different distances that you're hitting the the ball with each club is kind of important when you start talking about the top end of the set when you're going into two hybrids utilities long irons fairway woods it gets a little bit messy because usually get some bigger gaps up there. I'm always an advocate of making sure that your gaps are nice and tight in your wedges through your scoring clubs just because you're going to have those shots more often than you're going to have that weird two hundred and thirty thirty yard cleaner shot so but you also want to consider the course that you play if you're always playing the same golf course over and over and you have a certain par-three. That's a certain yardage. You want to make sure that you have a club that can comfortably hit it to the middle of the green from the teas that you play so what about you mentioned playing the course that you play. What about the the driving ranges. Is that your that your great whip. You're hitting off Matt's for for people that live in say Manhattan that are going to hit onto head on maps versus. This is those that are going to hit off grass. So the differences of hitting off of artificial turf as regular turf a lot depends upon the firmness of the artificial turf and what that plays into is is where the ball strikes on the face now the good news is that whatever that distance gap is that you're seeing so if you're seeing a twelve yard gap between your nine and your eight and a twelve yard gap APP between eight and seven. It's probably going to exist the same way out in the real world conditions off of grass but the overall yardages meaning your average in your Max may adjust a little bit nuts depending upon if you're getting different spin rates than you get outdoors the reason that you would get different spin rates than what you see. Outdoors is if the balls hitting higher or lower. We're on the face due to the TURF that you're heading off. The TURF is really squishy. In it allows you to Kinda hit under the ball's. GonNa hit higher on the club face and balls ause that hit higher on the club face typically have less spin. If the turf is extremely tight and very very firm. You may hit the ball lower on the club face. You know think about old club fitting days of hitting balls online boards you know when you hit balls online boards those things typically spend a lot in the reason as that the boss usually striking a little bit lower on the face balls that strike lower on the face tend to spend a little bit more so what I would say. Is that the gap from one club to the next. When you're hitting indoors versus outdoors outdoors will probably remain pretty much the same but you may see the distances shift a little bit longer or shorter depending upon your spin? I don't WanNa make generalization because if you're a low spin player and then you see indoors that you're hitting at high on the face therefore producing even less spin than your distances may actually come down and then if you're a high spin player in you see endorsed the same thing the turf conditions justify that you're hitting it higher on the face. If the spin comes down that means you're actually going to hit it further so I don't WanNa make generalization saying that you're going to hit it further or shorter but pay attention to where you're hitting it on the face when you're hitting it on you know indoor turf and if it's any different than where you normally would hit it outdoors if you're hitting it higher on the face than you would outdoors than your spins. You're going to be a little bit lower and then you have to factor that into what what is your ideal spin right for. Your club head speed to determine if that's GonNa make you longer or shorter as far as your distances but as far as overall. How often should you do right. I advise doing it every spring before you get going and also whenever you put new gear in the bag so if you've got new stuff in the bag after you've had about a month to adjust to it you know one of the things we do at Tru SPEC after after a customer buys said irons me always invite that player to come back in after they've used their irons for about a month and we gap up them the second part of the gap INC session is not just distance but it's also directional so we may say that you need to degree upright set throughout your whole bag right but maybe in the six iron you need at one degree upright. Maybe in the seven hour and you need it two and a half degrees upright. We do see some variations based upon lengthened. CG The way that players swing different clubs so part of a gaping session isn't just dialing in the lofts. It's also dialing in the lying to make sure that every ball starting online line when we're talking mentioned Lofton lie angles tour players a lot of them will almost every time they're out onto or at a at a tournament they'll get their loss in allies jacked up by the Rep. There's actually a funny story really quick about Max Homa when I talked to him. He mentioned his first. Go Round on tour. was was not a great one. I mean he missed all advocates. Let's just put it that he mentioned that he did not go in the truck at all the titles semper Sam because he did right and so he was hitting shots and he was thinking that it was him when in actuality has often often lies were off on some of his golf clubs because he was hitting pounding so many range balls override over again again it this this is just goes back to the importance of getting lofts in lives. Check to make sure that your gap and scrape to make sure that your contact is is worth supposed to be because if your clubs are a little bit off even even even a fraction that changes your impact location then you start to think that it's you. It's your golf swing win win. Maybe it's just a simple tweak. It just goes to show you how important is get a check perfect example. You know my own set when you look at now now first of all when we're adjusting thing the loft of a golf club. I never recommend for any player out there to adjust the loft more than plus or minus two degrees off of whatever the standard loft is and the reason for that this is when you adjust the loft. You're also adjusting the bounce so if you change a a club two degrees stronger you're eliminating two degrees of bounce which is going to make the club dig more for more than two degrees of bounce change on a golf club is actually going to cause a very very different experience as far as impact so don't ever change range those lost more than plus or minus two degrees of what the standard loft is for that specific product. That's one thing I definitely would say but in line with what we were just saying if you look at my own LAWF- off set up in this doesn't make any sense but in my set there's a two degree difference between my eight iron and my seven iron and there's a six six degree difference between my seven iron and my six yet when you look at the distances. I hit those clubs. It's exactly twelve yards between all three of them so sometimes it works out that you know those loft gaps are four degrees all the way through the set but a distance capping session is going to help you identify that and then it's going to help that fitter fitter. I make a little tweak here there to the Lofton. You're set what's most important at the end of the day is that you have uniform distance increments between each club. That's what's most important norton from playability aspect all right next question. How long does the driver typically last before it loses. Its pop really lose. Its pop it gets hotter. If anything we get hotter if anything it would get hotter we get this question. All the time customer gets fit. They love their driver for months later. Call Up. I think that the strivers lost some pop well. Unfortunately there's probably two things going on a the angles that you're hitting the ball have changed so maybe you're hitting two degrees up on it. Now you hitting one degree down. That sort of stuff is not going to change from day to day but it will evolve over the course of a few months so it's not like you're going to show up one day and hit two degrees up on it and then the next day you're. GonNa hit one degree down on it but over time things will shift and when we're talking about a difference of hitting up on two degrees versus down one degree that's radically different as far as you know ball striking in in in in launch on ch characteristics so what's happening. If you're noticing that your driver's Las Papas the dynamics of impact have changed enough to justify that maybe you need a slightly different loft or something's going on there that needs to be investigated and worked out the other thing. Maybe you're just not swinging Canada's fast. You're losing a pop. Maybe a little bit of pop you know so that's definitely something that you know now tour players. Uh they work on the same most tour players own their own launch monitors and they don't ask about twenty five and the reason they do it is because we do see ever so slight variations from one to the next now for the average player. They wouldn't notice a difference right but for a tour player they WANNA make sure that they're using the same measurement tool every single time bottom line here is I would probably measure your club head speed on on some sort of device running. If you notice that you're losing a little bit of Pop with your driver. Try to get back on the the exact same device and measure your speed and cedric speeds gone down. There's a chance that maybe it's gone down. A mile or two all takes a mile or two slower and that's going to be four five six seven yards down range so but the idea of it losing pop as we said if anything there's potential that it would actually increase ace increase E. T. or increase you are the idea there being that with more usage. The face of the club is is going to actually flex more as the metal fatigues you would actually get more face flushes with more flavor faction. You would get more kinetic energy transfer into the ball so it's a tough thing to test you know you and I are trying to put together a little test of our own using some of our resources to see what happens uh-huh yeah. We're trying to figure out how to how to how to see exactly what happens. After a driver's been hit a thousand times in the center of the face doesn't get hotter or does it stay the same name. I would say that it's either gonNA. Stay the same or get even just a little bit hotter so if you're losing pop it's it's not because the driver's gone bad. It's because something's somethings probably changed a new golf swing yeah a lot of good food for thought in those listener questions right there with that. Let's get to part two of our interview with Abraham Answer. He went over a lot of stuff about his gear and as you mentioned talking about his putter so let's get to it. Abraham of all of the pieces of gear in your bag right now. Is there one that you're more in love with in any other pieces their one piece that is the most important to you. Oh that is such a tough question. I truly love everything club in my bag. There's right right now. There is not one thing that would be like. I wish I could be a little bit better. I guess if I'm really picky my three would can be a little bit better out of the fairway. I mean I mean when I hit off tees absolutely perfect too so hard to find good three. Would that goes exactly how you want it off a t and the fairway in my five would I love. I not a little bit extra life. I cannot trap it in trying to hit a little bit harder so I'm not I'm not too worried about having a problem with my three word. There's not a lot of par fives are really trying to slide on the green. Stop it with my three would so I'm in. That's a tough question Russian. I love him iron planet for two and a half three years almost radical. I this unique finish on them. It's called. White Crom got obviously the mirror stamping and my low on that they look absolutely phenomenal. I wouldn't change anything my wedges. I love my wedges. I got this his four iron tailoring foreign that I that you can have a I have a pretty big big gap because I have a three iron in. I have four wedges before when I hit a cut and he goes about two ten. I get a little bit dry kind of string. A little bit harder goes up to twenty so he covers that guy perfectly my i. Why would I really hope we never breaks name. I know it's an end to the shout is getting a little bit worn out on the grind with the with the bag but man everything I really love him and it's hard to it's hard to pick just one uh I put in a fifty fifty one point five degree but it's a fifty to head Mira there are some of the new wedges music came out with and I was struggling with like forty yard bunker shot watts with with those shows pretty pretty tough but it's a high bounce Sir fifty fifty two degree that has been absolutely phenomenal the feel incredible which I mean you get with really any Muira era but he has helped me a ton on Kinda Longish a bunker shots which that's that was not the reason why I put it in there but I just tried. I was like wow so I've got a lot out of out of the bunker which I'm really excited about like I said really really all in love with my whole bag which is which which is a rare thing. Yeah definitely is easy to see why you've played so well this year. everything in the bag is working. Well and you have confidence in it the talk about putters briefly. I know earlier earlier in the year. He stopped by to spend some time with the guys over at Mira and when you did that you stopped into one of our Tru spec studios are actually our headquarters stew. That's where I was able to spend some time with you meet you when we we just spent a little bit of time on putter at the time we put on all of our machines and evaluated your putter and I know that the feedback that was given then was hey don't change change anything. What you've got is currently working. You obviously have some confidence in the numbers are really good. I know that eventually throughout the year you did make a change to the putter and I think you even changed the the answer in the in the stroke letter that you were using if you can get into a little bit about how the putter evolves throughout the year obviously that putter was so important to helping helping you finish you know where you did towards the end of the year and a few of those events just get into a little bit about putting in and by the way all of our listeners out there Abraham is an amazing putter his numbers on all of our tools were off the chart so easy to understand why he made some money parts and made so much money this year yeah putters I'm. I'm really weird man. I changed. I can go and spread that I don't touch it for a long time and sometimes that I intend to putter every week. It's it's been it's been weird. I don't know I'm not scared of a changing. I'm stretching something. I mean anything else on my bag putters. I'm really not not scared of change. I think I get excited when I liked. What a new putter in I tried and I get I gives me confidence in a way and I I get get sometimes when I put a new putter in the bag I won in Australia with a square back Scotty Cameron. that you use is that for for a long time yeah that was that was the one I think you had in the bag when you and I spent some time where the numbers were so good and I know that you went into that stroke lab at some point point here after Australian so was that was that just like an aesthetic some feel thing or was there a technical reason for that switch. No just like I said I I mean the quarter. Look look great mice. It's perfect. I I guess suicide had a couple couple of weeks in a row that I didn't. PUTT as good as I wanted to. I wanted to see something different. Sometimes when I get another another get excited in the neck and go back to my old trustee but I haven't gone back to that one and it's been a while as being like four or five months I've been using aren't said yes. It's been like I said it's been a while at the. PGA Championship I was there I came came back from a week of really putting really poorly hitting the ball really well and just not getting much outta my rounds because they didn't make any putts and I would spend some time with Joe. Tool and I'm pretty I'm really good friends with them. He's a great guy. He's out there every week. Brain knowledgeable about about putters as well and I just want to the to the truck and I was like man I need. I need something and I couldn't find anything I did was his old number five Odyssey in the backer truck just Kinda. I think it was a backup for it could've been from first networker or I don't even know I mean. I don't know who else uses that kind of account ahead Take this one to sit a couple of putts and the work perfect that week. I putted amazing her really good finish finish that week and I roller that for a while up until New York a couple of weeks ago where I finished second and I just wasn't planning that great again. I came back from from a week that I could the ball okay good enough to help make enough cuts. I grabbed a number seven. Even Odyssey probably great on the on the putting green went out and use that on the first day absolutely striped it that day I right. I don't think I could hit any any better and didn't make one PUTT and I was like Oh my God. Have you ever used shot putter in a tournament a pro shop. I've been close to but I haven't been close through so I did the New York I like. I said I ended up shooting shooting four under but I'd ship been one holdout from one hundred twenty and just I I just found a way to shoot under par without really making any thoughts actually gave that putter away to a lady that was watching the remind from Dallas. Watch minimal around to with some of my my buddies watching we play. I was like please please take this out of my hands. she took it and then Joe Oh overnight at me number five just like my gamer but with the stroke lab shop and it was just different color and a little bit the heavier head absolutely rolled it the next three days and ended up finishing second so how many how many do you have in your collection the that's a good question. I don't know I got. I got quite a few but I I don't. I'm not the guy that I just wanted like grab putter and just take home to have it like I don't WanNa be guy like I mean if I grab a letter and it's it's truly because I think is gonNA is GonNa make it to the bag or I'm gonNA WANNA use that week but yeah I have quite a few putters here in my officer Abraham. You're one of the few guys and I don't know how many of our listeners realize this but you use graphite iron shaft Mitsubishi. Ot in in your Muir irons. What led you to test out the OT graphite initially in what kind of differences is a particularly in the performance area? Are you seeing with that graphite over steel. Yeah been using them for two years now. Maybe a little bit longer. It came out and what I struggle with four was from like six hundred up I could I could get a pretty flush with using using like product X. or something like that. They were very consistent but I just I just couldn't really get the high I need to especially in the kitchen tour firm and you have a five hundred students. It's tough to get to those fans who you need. You need a little bit of a higher trajectory and I was like well. I'm going to try. I'M GONNA try. Greenwich see how it goes my buddy Roberta. Ds Houston for a little bit and that's how I can't are ain't got introduced to those sheriffs and I tried them and it was pretty automatic. How I was really impressed how consistent they were because I've tried some other graphite shafts it at six hundred ninety ninety and then I'll swing a little bit harder and be like tool five like whoa like. Can I have the You have to be really precise in this. Mitsubishi shouts they they fly like graphite but they they're very consistent like a steel shafts which I was really impressed and I haven't talked to south. I've been using it for little or two years. Your current centimeter prototype irons. You worked on getting the shaping of the soul that club just right with the team over at Mirror. What design aspects were you looking for. When you guys were working on the set of Byron's yeah well arms on the Five Dolo Fives which I'm guessing they came out they were Muir Yuqing they can line and and yeah. I mean everything about that. I actually thought I could stand up you used for a long time and the only thing that I wanted honor to change was maybe the finish because I got a little bit too shiny from like the top line. I mean that was just being extremely picky but but one thing that I really wanted to do the Dow was deleting edge. It was really really sharp which it was it was fine and really any any type of grass aspect when I got into softer very tight bent. I felt like you've dug a little bit more than than I wanted to and I got in trouble a couple of times because I felt like I had ticket in order the to not not get to like to stuck in the ground and yet so we added a little bit bill in a way like I have a night or what not not add ads extreme but other than that is the same the same head just a little different finish and leading edge is just a little bit more of a head a little bit more of a Bebel Abraham. We can't thank you enough for spending some time with us on fully equipped. Obviously you've got something big coming up on the rise in here. Presidents Cup that super exciting we look forward to watching you out on the golf course during the President's Cup and obviously getting into next year as the season gets rolling here so thank you so much for spending time with us and we I hope to see you soon and and chat with you about equipment in the near future thanks again Abraham. Thanks guys I appreciate that and that should do it for part two of of our interview with Abraham Answer special thanks to Abraham for being on the pod. It's always great to have a chance to speak to one of the PGA tour up and coming superstars that leads into a topic of conversation that I'd like to get into here regarding junior golf. Many of us get asked when all of you listeners out there purchase richest new clubs what to do with your old clubs. I always advise folks to donate those old clubs to different junior golf charities whether it be the first t where any of the junior junior golf development programs organized by the PJ of America what better than to give back to the game and make sure that kids that can't afford equipment have equipment equipment to at least be able to get them started. Maybe the equipment is not optimized for them or perfectly fit but at least gives them something to us while they're learning the fundamentals and this leads me into one last thing. I'd like to dedicate this episode to the honor of one of my mentors Charlie deluca senior affectionately known as senior. Charlie passed away yesterday at Seventy eight in Miami Florida for fifty years. Charlie led the data Amateur Golf Association eventually becoming the first t organization Organization of Miami while leading the I t program Charlie mentored and taught tens of thousands of junior offers during his fifty year career in junior golf. He's he's truly a giant in junior golf world. He also started the largest international junior golf tournament in the world the row publix junior classic many of plus who grew up in south Florida Charlie and his team of golf professionals a debt of gratitude for everything they taught us in for the passion. They instilled build inside of us so many well-known. PGA and LPGA professionals came up through the ranks of the day damage Golf Association and we are Forever Indebted Indebted to his service to the game on behalf of the thousands of junior golfers throughout the country who learned the game from you. Thank you Charlie Deluca and thank you for everything you taught us. That should do it for this episode of fully equipped. Thank you so much for tuning inning in and we look forward to bring you another episode next week
Fully Equipped | Rory's Ball Change and Part 1 of 2 with Abraham Ancer
"<music> and welcome back to fully equipped this is timorese from tru spec golf joined by jonathan wolf buff dot com eight jonathan. What's up listen before we get started today. I i got to clarify something. My wife listened to the podcast recently recently and she asked me she said is the guy that you do the podcast with. Is he really a professor and i've i've got i've got to come clear that it is merely early a nickname i at least i don't think that your professor but <hes> yeah. You're still the smartest guy that i know him so that that's why you get the professor designation. I think you know all of the knowledge that i've been able to gain in the golf industry regarding equipment. It just means that i've been doing this a long time and made a lotta mistakes so <hes> i'm. I'm very close to a vet in the positions. I've been in <hes> instructional. E you know being around a lot of really smart people and not always try to make make sure that i'm in room where there's somebody else smarter than me in there so just try to gather up as much as i can along the way and absorbed like a sponge and be able to apply it and help people play the game. That's that's that's. I think what all of us are that are involved in this. That's what our objective is. Make the game more funding and help people enjoy it <hes> to to the level and extent that we we all do so what's up buddy but the but the professor the professor designation is a term of endearment i i just i just bought up that out. There is is interesting because i've actually now started to have that moniker with some of my coworkers and associates they. I started to say tongue-in-cheek. I may have to get a manteca the man here we go well so <hes> what's the what's going on this week. Jonathan you know obviously big week tour championship attention kind of the end of the official season <hes> so this is usually lots of activity in the equipment world out on tour <hes>. What are we're going to get into this week. Yep so let's let's get into discussing rory switching golf balls you know this isn't something that he did recently <hes> it was done back towards the early part of the year but with his win at the tour championships i think it's worth revisiting this switch and how it could benefit the recreational golfer. <hes> newsflash victor hoefflin has put his fourth set of irons and play tim. I know you're surprised we gotta dig into that in and you know now that the tour championship i chip is done and we kind of go into the wraparound season. You know this is the time that's kind of changed. The way that players at least some of them have started a test so let's it's get into that a bit a golf ball that can make a putt from anywhere on the green. It's not a dream actually a reality. We we gotta get into that and then i got a couple of really good pod questions for this week so should be a great episode outstanding so let's get into the golf ball question with lori the fifteen million dollar decision <hes> tell us a little bit about what's going on there jonathan yep so rory at the beginning of the year. Actually let's just go all the way back to last year's p._j. Championship so while playing with tiger woods in justice thomas during the two thousand eighteen p._g._a. Bree told me when i was in austin but in this year for the match play that he started to notice that both players were hitting controlled flighted wedge shots and it started to kind of get him thinking you know i i like hitting these really high headshots into the greens. They definitely are always going to hold but how can i gain a bit more control inconsistency with my wedges. One of the things that roy tested was a new golf ball and he went from tailor-made teepee five x which is the lower spinning ball of the to to the teepee five and you know tim. I think this is a great opportunity to kind of. Bring this back to the recreational golfer. You know for the most part i feel like we've got have gotten to do <hes> a time in the industry right now. We're everyone's touting lo spin low launch but that doesn't work for everybody. You spin can be your friend in and i think war is a perfect example of a guy who's insanely long but can actually benefit from spin in this gulf while that is using in this is an opportunity ready for recreational golfers out there to potentially go out in intestinal with a bit more spin because spin can actually help you in it can help with your consistency it sure again and as she mentioned there's this thing in equipment recently where a lot of folks are focused on lower spinning products nor spending products are gonna help you hit it further as long long as you have the the club head speed ball speed to be able to support it so it's going to mean that when the ball slicing or hooking it's not going to slice or hook as much but all this comes with a huge caveat in i think a lot of amateur golfers may not understand is there is a preferred spin window. That's based upon the speed of the golf ball. That spin window actually shifts up a little bit and goes higher the slower the golf ball takes off from the face of the club so when you're looking at drivers preferred suspend window for you know a tour players going to be right around two thousand mark maybe a shade under shade over when you get into slower golf ball speeds coming off the face you get into your your higher handicapped players. You're you're slow. Club head speed players. That's been window actually shifts upwards a little bit reason being that that extra spin is actually helping keep the ball in the air preventing the ball from from falling out of the sky the the thing that take away from all of this. I think is a what you mentioned. Regarding moris wedges everybody when they tested the five x golf ball when it first came out was amazed at what did for their long game there driver. You know a player like lori that generates so much much club head speed. They're going to generate a lot of spin as well and so when you're talking about a driver in the long game that reduced spin is going to help them hit the ball a lot farther and it's going to mean that the wind has less bearing over what the ball does. I don't know if you remember when they first introduced five x but all the guys were raving about the control that they got in windy conditions that they just didn't have other golf balls. That's due to the low spin properties of the product. I will say this about the five x product. It's incredibly audibly low spinning of all of the products that are available out these days. I don't know very many golf balls. Even come close when it comes to knocking spin off the ball but how does that play into your short game. We mentioned this in a previous pod that we did jonathan whereby ball selection really should be more about what's going on with the wedges in the short game because is that where you score that's where you know you're hitting your putter more often than any other club <hes> in the set and when you don't get your wedges you're using your wedges with full swings. Swings three-quarters swings on a few par-five. Maybe a few par fours and then you're obviously using your wedges every time he missed the green so you're probably using your wedges putter more than any other club in the bag and so therefore you should consider what's going on with the performance of your ball with those clubs specifically. You know what you mentioned earlier about <hes> amateur golfers maybe not understanding on what they should be using as far as a golf ball go to go to a practice green test a few different balls see see what happens when those short chips on shorter pitches go back to sixty seventy yards on those half wedge shots hit a few out of the raf see what happens narrow narrow the selection process down to two or three different options that seem to be performing well with your web shots and then bring it back and see what it does with the driver. Get on a launch monitor. Compare compare them on a launch monitoring and see what the spin rates are on drivers and six hours. I think <hes> you know the mid irons spin control characteristics. A lot of times are the determining factor once you've narrowed it down to a couple but you should always make your initial selection for all based off the short game in the wedge and the wedge play. Obviously this worked out very well for one one of the things that i would say that has been. I don't know about a weakness because when rory is playing well. I don't know of anybody other than <hes>. You know tiger that has it's the ability to do things with the golf ball that he does <hes> i would say that the one week scepter became right mazing things he can do some pretty amazing things with the golf ball to <hes> but you know with the speed that where he goes out and the way he maneuvers the ball the one weakness i would say in his game may have been those mid length wet shots <hes> i've i've seen him hit a few of those shots much farther from the whole than he should for a player of his caliber so hearing that this ball has helped with that isn't a surprise. He's he's coming off of. I kind of think it through under the radar how oh well his season went this year. Don't you jonathan. I mean probably one of his best years. He's ever put together. He didn't get a a major necessarily but <hes> you know his his finishes finishes. This year have been outstanding. Oh yeah no in statistics if you look at if you look at rory's numbers this year you know going back to the golf ball here sure he he's actually seen some some real tangible improvements if you if you go down two strokes game strokes approached the green he was twelfth this year on tour strokes gained around the green he was nineteen. These are areas of rory's game that he's always typically struggled with it. You know strokes gained off the tee but the driver in his hand. He's he's lethal but it's been the other areas that have all kind of held back obviously the putter to us twenty four th this year on tour so he's seeing some some real improvements since it's he made that switch of the gulf moments coming in the areas that you highlighted short game area writing more people when they're testing galls need to spend more time working their way around the green the on the putting green seeing ball feel seeing how it reacts instead of spending so much time just looking at ball speed and launched numbers with a driver yeah absolutely the last little piece on on the golf ball selection. I know we mentioned this in a previous pot as well. Some of the really really super elite players are actually looking for high-spending balls. Yes i know you've spent some time with tiger in the past and the gulf while that he played was hardly a super low spend ball was actually a very high spend ball and the the mindset there is. I want my golf ball to give me the broadest catalogue of shots available. If i wanna hook it i wanna be able to hook at eighty yards. I wanna be able to stop it on a green with a three. Would i wanna be able to pull off shots that nobody else can pull off and then i'll use my mechanics in my skill to take spin off when i need to take spinoff. It's a very different mindset from i think most the players that are playing on tour and definitely from amateurs hundred percent. I totally agree with you there in tiger with that bridgestone to her be access you know he's told me multiple times in the past that he wants spin spin is his friend and you look at all of his. You'll get all the loss on his irons. I mean he he is very old school when it comes to the loss and he loves to work the ball both ways in as you mentioned the only real way to start working at gospel. Both directions is to get spin especially when it comes to those short irons <hes> in mid irons. You need spin to be able to keep the ball in the air so you know if it's working for tiger and how it's working for rory korea certainly something that's that's worth kind of digging in to for <hes> for the recreational golfer all right let's get into this is becoming my favorite it weekly topic to him. I i love talking about victor hoefflin equipment. He's always got something new in the bag more recently a modest jonathan. We need to get victor alabama. I know i've got. I've got to make this happen. We've got to get victor on on the podcast. He fits our he fits our listenership to to a t t i would i would there say he is. He's a gearhead in every sense of the word but as we've talked about here in recent podcasts pretty much every podcast for the last last three or four victor hoaglund is news flash you changed irons and <hes> it just happens to coincide with emerging as p._g._a. Tour car which i think it's pretty incredible but for the fourth time in seven starts victor used a different iron combination so he started his professional career off with ping's i to ten in the fourth or six i two tens. He had the seventh pitching margin the blades he's used the blueprint which is more compact compact. Actually the most compact ironed ping has in a short irons his us. I blade at the top of the set. Even use the full set of i- blades more recently louis and you know for a guy who's used four different sets of irons. You would think that he would be struggling with his ball. Striking and i went in to go take a peek at his statistics and you know victor stats don't count for the tour this yet but his he is almost a full all strokes better than the field average instructs can approach the green in his the typical number right now would raise him third on tour tim behind just henrik stinson and justin thomas instill the guy continues to test irons so you know i'm sure people are probably asking what is victor hoven when looking for in a set of irons that he hasn't found yet and i think you know just kinda going back and looking at what he is used in my opinion. I think he's looking for ideal turf interaction. You know he's used three different models. I two ten. I blade blueprint. All those have very different. Soul wits the i two ten is is more player iron. I blade is better player. Blueprint i would even say is like you know you're scratch to pro player. It's a very very reese small sole wit so i think he's just looking for something that works. Maybe that's why he's used a bunch of combo. Sets tim what we're what are we. What else can we say about. This guy i mean he is fully equips a dream guest obviously but he certainly guide that said that certainly worth talking about with all the changes he's been making. I feel bad for his caddy. I mean i'd be basket case all these different sets and setups distances and yardages you you know i i feel bad for the caddy in this but a couple of things going on i agree wholeheartedly with what you just stated as far as looking for turf interaction something that a lot of listeners there's may not realize but the design the geometry the with all of the shaping to the way the bottom of the golf club is designed. That's going to radically change the way that your club feels when it makes contact with the ball but specifically the turf and it's going to change the way at exits the tariff whether it tends to dig more or less mm-hmm and that has a huge component over fail another big thing i think is going on here is just him getting familiar with the ping product line <hes> once again as we've mentioned he's he's. He's new to the pink staff. He's played tailor-made for for quite a while throughout his collegiate years and making that transition into a completely new product line i think he just wants to make sure that the setup he has in the bag is the is the absolute best for him one little side note to note here. You know when you told me about this fourth equipment a change. The first thing that came to mind is what are the loft packages on these irons because if you know one thing that a lot of listeners may not realize but when you talking about standard specs it's or standard loft. It's not just different from manufacturer to manufacturer but it's different from profiling the product line when you look at a p seven ninety from tailor-made and compare pair that tiger woods iron you're looking at you know eight degrees of loft difference between them. That's to clubs different <hes> so from one product line into the next. You're going to see different loft packages in different setups not just from one club to the next but the increments are also different some clubs go with a five degree loft differential in the scoring irons some go with more traditional four <hes> some clubs go with a two degree waft differential in the long island so it's it's different for one product line to the next and that's all all determined by the manufacturers through the testing process and and so one of the things that i did a little homework on here when you mentioned that we've gone to a fourth fourth equipment setup is all of the loss in the loft packages throughout these three different product lines these switching in and out are actually extremely similar whether yet you know act actually actually i've got an answer for you. I spoke to <hes> to ping to a rep notes in he said that he said that victor's lofts offs across the board even when he's doing combo sets are all very standard so he's not making a lot of alterations to to the loft which as you mentioned would would would alter the way that the clubs going through the turfs over everything's pretty standard for him yup and that's kind of what i suspected there would be no way that he could go from one week to the next <hes> going to iron setups that were radically different for loft packages and it's not just as simple as okay well okay. This product over here has lost two degrees stronger three to may stronger less. Just bend them and get them to the same loft. It's not that simple because when you bend loft you're also changing the bounce and that's gonna change turf interaction <hes> when you take a degree of loft off of a club when you're talking irons and wedges your negating bounce by the same amount one degrees so if you're playing ten degree bounce sand wedge and you strengthen at one degree you're basically turning it into a nine degree out switch and then vice versa if you're adding aloft than you're adding bounce and this is something that's incredibly important especially for really good players you know the the turf interaction get so i couldn't imagine that he was changing laughs <hes> <hes> when he was going in and out of these different sets in messing around with loft packages but <hes> that's probably one of the reasons he's been so been able to so seamlessly seamlessly get back and forth between them. When do we find a point of stability here. I mean i think i think now so here's here's something interesting <hes> <hes> darryl survey who is the the company that goes out every week on the p._g._a. Tour in when you see an advertisement says number one golf ball number one driver p._g. Tour are there is somebody usually couple of people that are out there on the practice green on thursday when players start teeing off and they check everything in the bag and they go go through and that's how they do. The darrell survey counts to make sure that that these manufacturers were they stand if they are the most played iron or wedge on tour so so here's something interesting about him that i just found out so bicker hoaglund via darryl was listed as playing a split set of irons earns is split set that included. I ten long four through six and mid and short irons with the i. Blade <hes> now that's that wasn't too uncommon because he had actually played the reverse of that set at the u._s. Open when he first chain being equipment but can actually told me that it was was it was a full set of leads it was it was not a split set which again it it's different. It's still the fourth different combination that is used but plot. It seems like maybe vickers getting a bit closer to something that he likes. He clearly likes that i- blade. He's use it. Another combo sets in now is using a full all set. I think we're getting pretty close to maybe a dare i say victor hoaglund finding a match so we'll see what happens but but this this may be it from and maybe i played yet and that's a perfect segue into the last win of conversation guarding tore news and that is we are now at the end of the official show season with the tour championship last week so <hes> you know some folks continue to do their tinkering in the wintertime. Some folks started now <hes> so you know as far as we're victors concerned i would agree with you. We're going to start seeing some stability in his set as he the enters in the official new playing year off where the p._g._a. Tour but i think it's worth discussing for our listeners out there regarding how this is kind evolved with wraparound season in its what effect that's how to over deer in gear testing. Some players that i've talked to tim have actually said they'd had to alter their schedule. Because of the new wraparound on season <hes> you know there's very few weeks in between the end of the tour championship in the beginning of the twenty nineteen twenty twenty season so how players who said that they're testing window has been altered. You know they might do a little bit of testing during that window but a lot of them for the most part are still testing late late new year. You know i i would say seventy five to eighty percent tour players maybe even more than that live in arizona california florida warm climates where you can golf year round so they don't really have to to worry about whether affecting when they test but but it is interesting to see how the wraparound has altered <hes> <hes> maybe they maybe they would normally test everything late in the year and now they might start testing wedges kind of during that brief window before the first event invented the new season so yeah you know i it's it's one of those things that that were players. Just kind of have to adjust to you know they've now done enough wraparound seasons writing. Most guys are pretty comfortable bowl with with their testing schedules but you know again always trying to bring this back to the recreational golfer you know for you. I'm curious tim. How do you test when it comes to the new equipment. Are you the kind of guy that likes to test. Just kind of as you feel the need to or do you typically like to go throughout bag and try and see if you can find a bunch of things that <hes> that you might want to change into now me personally <unk> interestingly enough. I'm not much of a tinker. When i find something thing that works. I like to stick. I can't believe that i i don't believe this yeah with with all the gear you have around you there there. There's a lot of patient there tim. My office is my office office. We should take some pictures and put it on social. I i've got a lot of cool toys in my office that i get sent to me by shaft reps etc a lot of prototype stuff that a lot of our listeners probably all over you know i always am testing new product not necessarily for going in my own bag but more so to understand product features benefits performance profiles and how it relates to our customers at tru spec in how that's going to play play into the way that we fit golf clubs so it's very regular that i'm testing all of the new stuff and looking at it and messing around it as far as personal changes if i find something that works i don't switch it very often that being said i don't play golf very frequently anymore so i think that <hes> i'm always tinkering these days just because because i'm unhappy with the fact that i'm not very good at golf at least is as good as i used to be so from that regard you know i'm always open to to <music> a new free agent to join the team so to speak but when i do find something that i liked it works. I tend to keep it in their little while you know how that applies out on tour. Keep in mind that you're most elite lead. Players are signing contracts that mandate that they update every year. <hes> you know some of the guys that don't sign those contracts. They brand agnostic that gives them flexibility. I know we've i think we shared a story about working with a player that had a circuit two thousand seven driver that happened to be you know a really outstanding standing product and we must have worked for seven hours trying to find different iterations of shafts ed's specs etcetera etcetera etcetera and at the end of the day what he had in the bag <hes> ended up being the best thing that we tested even compared to all the updated product then that being said the next player that you work with will walk in with something that seven in years old he loves it and then the very first option you try you know knocks it out of the water so the only real way to go through this is to get your hands on it and be able to test in an objective format. I think what's advisable to any recreational out. There would be have an honest assessment over your current golf game. Are you a good the driver of the golf ball. Are you good iron player good putter. What's the part of your game. The probably needs the most work. That's where i would focus in. I obviously maybe the it years playing into why you have deficiencies in that category of club. <hes> see a p._g. A professional professional fedor come to a tru spec location. Make sure sure that it's done brand agnostic. We that's another thing that i would advise you know obviously we all have our preferences for brands and we'll have affinities to companies but as far as the scorecard the scorecard does not the scorecard on knows what clubs are gonna work so take a brand agnostic approach obviously having some data available to you <unk> using launch monitors. That's going to help determine you know what ends up being in the ballpark in if you have you know two products that the numbers are pretty similar then you can go to the more subjective things like look and feel but make it data driven make objective make it branding nonstick that would be my advice focus on the parts of the game. <hes> the categories of your clubs that tend to give you the most problems. <hes> have an open mind i can't i can't express that enough. Have an open mind. There's there's so many folks out there that have preferences and biases towards certain design characteristics clubs when in fact they don't really know why they have those vices voices and those biases undermine what they actually need to to play their best <hes> so having an open mind is very very important and then once you dial in a couple of products that you know kind of perform well in makes sense. <hes> get it out on the golf. Course you know make sure that you test it out there. You're in and see what it does for you when when the pressure's on <hes> if you go about it from that from that perspective i think that the average retail golfers gonna find golf clubs that stay in their bag a lot longer and you know we spoke to abraham in our interview about him having fourteen clubs in his bag that he loves. There's no secret that this is his best year that he's ever played so. I think that that's part of the puzzle is having confidence in every single piece of equipment women in your bag and i have deficiencies in every area of my game so maybe it shouldn't come as a surprise that i literally have about a million golf clubs test everything all at once. It's it's it's truly a a sight to behold. I should probably start doing that behind some trees or something so that so the public can't watch me as as a as i hack away but but yeah that's that's a lot of really good advice right there. Tim the next thing i want to get into is an email that i received here recently got an email from nissan and i had to do a double take because <hes> they have a new product out that i'm pretty sure you and i if given the opportunity we would pay pay an obscene amount of money for this product so nissan has a new self driving car out called the pro pilot two point. Oh and <hes> this car or has a system obviously where you have to put your on the wheel drive itself i. I don't know if you could pay me enough money to sit in a car. That could drive itself. I am kind of a control-freak. I don't think i could could relinquish that kind of control <hes> but they used this self driving technology to create a golf ball with a similar system system so this new golf ball. It's called the pro pilot golf ball. I don't think it's coming to retail i at least i hope it's not because it could be it could be a slow play nightmare and here's why so the golf ball has a motor inside the ball in the setup requires. External cameras linked the software that locates the cup in the ball in from there. There's an algorithm that controls the internal motor in the ball and based on how the ball is struck that impact golf ball is going to find the whole ten times out of ten. That's a golfers dream. Brings me back to sign me up. It brings rings. E backed him to to that scene from caddyshack where rodney dangerfield character l. servic is there on the green and he's got. He's got some sort of an odd device in his hands. That's attached to a potter and he said i got this from albert. Einstein nice spin nice man made a fortune of physics physics in the hit raps about a twenty footer and buries it. I thought man what would it be like to have a putter that could do that will now. Nissan is creating a golf ball aw which brings me to this this golf balls highly illegal regardless. I'm still taking it for a spin. If given the chance tim are you in heck. Yeah yeah i wanna make sure before i hit a pot with it going and obviously there's a lot of tech around the green though there seems to be a lot of technology ramic a you'd have to conceal that behind some bushes or something so that's your <hes> so that the guy that you're going to be making wager with doesn't get to see all the tech involved involved with getting this golf ball in the hole. Yeah i mean it's opening pandora's box so to speak <unk> when you're talking about high-tech involvement in golf you know i think a lot golfers. You're gonna be very excited at some of the things on the horizon that you're going to transform the game oath as far as equipment and just the overall experience <hes> this being in you know one of them. I know that encore is a ball brand. That has a patent on what's called a genius ball. That's where they've chipped the golf ball so instead of needing being launched monitors. You've got a little chip inside the ball that will be able to tell you spend rates in ball philosophy and things like that. It's kind of just a concept right now that they've patented in this. It's not been commercialized yet but really cool idea really cool product. <hes> i know back in my r._n._d. Days this going back. Gosh i feel so old saying this but going back twenty day yourself going back twenty years to my time working on the r._n._d. Team was spa stratus spalding and ben hogan companies. <hes> we were working on a self correcting golf ball polaris that exists these days is kind of a river that love that and the idea there was to move the c._g. Or center of gravity or center of mass of the ball off center from the core so that the ball was actually asymmetrical so to speak with from its construction standpoint on the interior in the idea being that it would slow down <hes> the spin rate of the ball and if the ball's not spending as much it can't curve <hes> i remember doing testing on that on the swing robots setting up you know these crazy pathway acquai- and face angles that were designed to make the boss license hook and these balls didn't go very far but they kind of wobbled through the air but they didn't curve. They went straight. They kind a self directed so you're going to see a lot of technologies out in the marketplace in the next ten to fifteen years. <hes> that are really really cool. Technologies designed to enhance the experience. This goes back to one. You know one stance. I have on equipment in general the game is so difficult you look at the rules of equipment for amateur and professional athletes in other sports whether it's baseball or some of the other games that are played and they do have a different equipment rulebook why not golf. Let's make it easy for folks. <hes> let's let's allow them to have more fun out there here so <hes> so yeah. Let's let's get that nissan pro pilot golf ball in play. I want want one. I'm totally buying one if if they come out with it although i don't know if i want to see the price tag for something that has a small motor inside all right podcasts questions for <hes> for this week got a couple of good ones as usual. I went up from brian gambaccini. He needs to he asks. I have had the same set of irons. Since i at school tommy armour eight forty fives great irons classic irons love those <hes>. You got him seventeen years ago. He's a seven and a half handicapper and he's ready to get something new. He's got a young girl so he doesn't play that often. Hey this sounds like me <hes>. How do i start my search. Wow <hes> a lot on that one right there so i this is bringing me bringing back my high school days i. I had that set of irons. That was what i played all through junior golf <hes> actually into my freshman year of college <unk> love the five series yeah they were great aren't great great set of irons. <hes> you know it was interesting. Those first eight forty five were kind of playing off of the unit length idea. A lot of people don't know that but the specs on in those eight forty five irons were very different than most iron specs in that the increments of length changed from one to the next were not your typical half inch increments <hes> once again dating myself here that i know that much about forty i love. I still remember the forty five so i'm saying i'm in the same boat what is youtube but that just looking at that golf club from a profile. It had a good bit of offset. There was definitely a lot of offset especially in those long irons. There was a lot of offset in those pubs they kind of had a more angular profile with more angular towed than rounded toe <hes> so i would tend to gravitate towards clubs that had a little bit more offset as i think that that's going to be more familiar in this case for the player being that that's something that they've looked down at ben comfortable within the past <hes> something that has a little bit more angular profile on you look at <hes> tied west they they have a little bit more angular toasts action than some of the brands that are out there. <hes> mira has a little bit more angular toe sections in the brands that are out there <hes> so i would pick something that has a general shaping that's similar one thing's for sure iron technology has come light years since eight forty five so if we were to put an eight forty thirty five and a player test against pretty much anything else that's out there today anything that's current would smoke it so suffice to say that whatever you end up going with it's probably going to outperform those those tommy armour eight forty five significantly <hes> but i would definitely go towards something aesthetically that looked similar or at least to begin with and then what i would probably focus on as okay definitely gonna need some perimeter weighting so stay away from the stuff that lacks perimeter weighting <hes> definitely going to probably need technologies in there like in like variable face thickness which expand the sweet spot <hes> anybody. That's been away from the game for a longtime there's going to be you know. It's not like riding a bike. You're going to have to spend some time getting reacclimated making solid contact and then the other part of this would be you know. Is this a fast club. Head speed stringer are slow club head speed swinger and that's going to depend upon <hes> shaft makeup that you end up putting in in there which also plays into trajectory profiles so do you end up going with a product. That's designed to fight and lower or a little higher. That's all you know depending upon on what that player tends to get out of out of out of golf clubs the only way to find that out is by trying a few different products so that's kind of where i would start start looking for something that has has a similar aesthetic similar shaping and then make sure that something that's more in the game improvement and that has some primitive waiting and some other technology to help enhance ball speed on off center hits and then you're gonna have to start looking at okay based upon the feedback of professional. Am i hitting getting this too high too low. And how can i change that. Normally i don't <hes>. I don't like to tell people to change irons even if they've got a set that's eight to ten years old because you know everybody wants. You find you really like it. It's tough to change set of irons but when when you're going on a set that hasn't been chained seventeen years i agree. It's time time to try out some new attacked. There are so many good things out there at the moment <hes> i'm sure you can find an iron that can be sure your old forty fives at least at least in the performance section. I don't know about about looks in the infield those again were great irons all right next question. How does a player figure out whether a combo set is for them when a typical iron fitting is only hitting either a six or seven iron wow so this is a complicated question to answer you know ultimately i think it comes down to to strike patterns looking at the concentration of the strike pattern <hes> when you're talking about <hes> where you're hitting on the face and how consistently you're hitting it on the face <hes> <hes> seeing how that evolves when you go from there to a six iron to a four iron if you care for and that you can tell based upon on your own set so the set that you currently are playing take a look at that you know deviation the amount of change or getting <hes> it's far as impact location if the impact location starts to expand significantly in your less consistent in those longer clubs. You definitely need something. That's going to have a little bit more <hes> as to how to apply this into a fitting when you're only <hes> necessarily hitting a six army tru spec we fit with six irons. It definitely is a complicated question to answer as far as how you determine what that demarcation iron is what i mean by that is okay. Maybe i'm playing a muscle back played in my scoring irons that i'm playing a forged cavity back muscle cavity in the in the mid irons and then i go to a full-on game improvement in the longhorns. How do i know what iron i needed. The part from i would say this. <hes> one of the pivotal irons in any set is an eight iron eight iron is usually the one that that pros look you know when when they're looking at sets of clubs for the first time when the first iron they pick up usually is the adar in looking at how how the set is blending from the eh scoring irons into the mid irons and that eight hundred is kind of that departure club where it starts to transition so if you're looking at a combo said i definitely would consider nine eight all kinds of being the same and then you can consider to jump off into a seven iron 6-and-5 iron <hes> that would have a little bit more perimeter weighting with a little bit more offset in it potentially as well if you don't like looking at offset in the seven iron <hes> than maybe you want to consider the seven iron. It's matching the wedge nine and eight by the time player gets into the six iron. Most amateur golfer seized as do need a little bit of forgiveness when they get to six hundred keep in mind that a lot of the loss on these six san these days are more parallel to what the loss of five irons in years past where so you know when you look at old school five hours that's when we started to see performance what's really start to take a hit with with golfers is when they get into that twenty eight degree loft range <hes> the other thing. I think is very important to consider with combo. Sets is the loft packages. You know as you stated. Earlier standard is not standard when you look at brands and different product lines that are different packages throughout and so if you end up deciding that you wanna make a combo set where you have eight degrees of difference you know if you were to try to put a set of <hes> <hes> tiger woods blades in play up to seven iron and then you were to put a set of seven ninety and play from the six iron. They're they're on top. You're gonna end up with a huge off differential going from that party point of the blade to the to the seven ninety iron so in that case you're gonna end up with a huge gap so if you are gonna combo oh you're set understanding the way that the loss are set up. I think is important understanding. What technologies are being included in those long irons. If there are distance technologies last thing you want to end up with is a twenty or twenty five yard gap between your six iron and your and your seven iron i've had it happened with players that built combo. That's where they actually had to six hours in the bag. That's kind of unique. <hes> what was the reason the reason was going from the six iron to the fire and and there was a huge huge gap so we ended up doing two six irons one six iron match scoring irons and then the other six iron match the five iron four hour <hes> <hes> and they ended up having a setup that had sequential capping throughout so gaping is a very important thing distance gap is very important thing to consider when you're making a decision about combo sets and then just the overall proficiency with needing criminal waiting or any of these scheme improvement technologies while it all right with that. Let's let's get to this week's interview. Tim and i had the opportunity to talk gear with twenty eighteen australian open winner abraham answer. He's coming off the best season of his career on the p._g._a. Tour and was recently. It named the international team for the president's cup. Here's part one of our chat where we discussed his unique mirror. Deal include experiences growing up in mexico well. We're pleased to be welcomed by guy who i consider to be a certified gearhead. He's coming off the best season of his p._g._a. Tour career in his bound for australia for the president's cup as a member of the international team later this here two thousand eighteen australian open winner abraham answer abraham. Thanks robin on the fully podcast as a young guys. Thanks so much for having me abraham. It's great to have you on a really really great to see you play so well to close out the year and thanks so much for joining us here on fully equipped. You know i'm i'm curious. You've been a professional golfer now for six years <hes> <hes> so that's definitely getting some time behind you in learning the ropes the curious what you've learned about your equipment since she turned pro as far ars your general knowledge base regarding equipment in how that differs from your amateur and collegiate career yeah well in college. I played all nike stuff <hes> oh u._s._o. Nike elite school so it was pretty easy to fall into that out onto that path in like electric equipment and then. I signed with them right right out of college so i play the all nike equipment up until on my first year on the p._g._a. Tour and it wasn't really that much into into knowing a lot about <hes> equipment back then but once they stop making equipment had to kinda think about what i what i wanted to go and what i wanna do you and i just said you know what i'm gonna. Play the best equipment or me or what would i prefer to play even though if i don't get a deal or anything doesn't matter i'll just try to make my mom can't golf course and that's when i fall into near always house. New mira was such a good <hes> this quality of forging arns and and just the quality control they have with an incredible one of my good buddy's here in san antonio is clear and he was near and i started messing around with him all the time i was also also trying harder and i couldn't really it was very very easy decision for me to <hes> to go nira if i even waiting the heads and just comparing airing what they're supposed to be unlike paper and once you get the actual heads i mean mira was always always on it was incredible and other brands were just just <hes> sometimes they were a little bit off about quite a bit off so that's why i'm gonna play me earns understood and so you would say that you know your your exposure due to gear and high level club fitting that kind of started as you filtered onto the p._g._a. Tour or was that something you did throughout your college career as well in oklahoma and prior to that that an desa started when you saw meghan equipment and i had to really think about what kind of path i wanted to go what what clubs shoes and yeah that's that's when i really started learning a lot more equipment and how everything worked and i had no idea of a healthy stuff and in college i just really didn't know much about it and i just kinda play with whatever people told me of whether the numbers were supposed to be and robert ryan sometimes eric good but i could have done a lot better area fi <unk> normal this now abraham the deal you inked with moore was in my opinion far from conventional. I believe you're a full partner. In mirrors mexico distribution russian rights was was that the kind of deal. You're looking to sign after your nike contract ended in. How did that whole deal. Come come about yeah that it's a very very deal for sure and i never really thought about it. Whenever i whenever i was done or whatever nike was done making clubs always like i said i was really been a big fan out of mira and always ready plane there. There aren't as for at least a year and a half without having a deal or anything else either. I mean either way. I was playing the arts just in talks with the hulda. Muruga is have never really sponsor a player <hes> on any tour so it was at first for them i for hours in it. Just it just make sense to us. I think it's a win win for all parties given us the distribution rights for miran mexico and i mean they really mexico's a pretty untapped the market for formula which was good for media itself could get a little bit bigger and a little more exposure mexico as a win for for us and for me me to kind of get the brand out there as well and us being the only guy that consume your over there and yeah i mean there are some expanded plants which really excited about that's all great stuff abraham. <hes> you know when you change gear especially at the professional level it can be both exciting a little bit nerve wracking obviously when you start got to trust your ear and you've played with it for a period of time and then with the departure of nike from the golf industry where you had to change a lot of gear. I'd be curious to understand i and when you're looking at new equipment what's the most important consideration you maker you more of an aesthetics and field guy or are you more of a numbers guy. Are you looking for equipment. That's going to allow you to flight the ball and spin it differently in shape shots differently. Are you looking for forgiveness or consistency. You can get a little bit into that. I think our listeners would really get something out of that. Yeah i mean like you mentioned <hes>. That's why i said i'm not gonna decide where the company that's gonna make fourteen clubs and the ball and i i've i have never used before. I just said you know what i'm gonna. Play whatever i know i can i can play good with and if i can get a deal out of that good. It's hot. I'll just make money money on the golf course because garnered the process of changing everything jenny irons drivers <unk> being you. Don't you know what's going to happen it. Could it could work or it can take a lot of time to get used to that that feel the ball flight. I mean everything everything changes. <hes> like i said i just went with. It's a lot of testing with balls and irons drivers found what worked for me and i knew that was going to work. I i got. I got randy in the off season and i just stole my agent. This is what i'm gonna go with. We can get something <hes> going great because because this is the brands that i that i feel really comfortable with and <hes> yeah. We got some deals while we didn't. I mean it was fine. I i don't regret anything at all. I think it's worked really well and i'm happy that position but for me yes. I know that the numbers are right. I look spin been rates with especially. I gotta be 'cause i got in trouble <hes> my first year in as a pro. I guess i i was pushing. I wasn't hitting that well shafts and at the time i did a little and i was like okay cool and then you get excited you. You got something new you. You've you've kinda. Flush a couple shots. I okay these are perfect but then you played three weeks in a row. You're not swinging a fast fast as you wear those. Those balls are not staying in the air. I mean i've played some shows that i was not good shoves but they the ball wasn't staying in the air the that's been raised different struggle so learned from that and <hes> yeah whenever i try something new if he doesn't it doesn't work in the the first three or four shots then. I'm not going to keep doing it because i'm going to start. I'm going to start manipulating my swing so i can get that shot like want to room you mentioned and that you want up so you wanna play equipment that you that you're comfortable with. I know you have artists in wedges in the bag and you worked with mike taylor when you were at nike you you you could've put any wedges in thereafter deal expired. I'm curious why you chose artisan. And what kind of a grind do you prefer on twenty or wedges. Yeah i mean this is very very common. I i love. I worked since i was in college with with mike taylor. He's amazing. What why <hes> every phenomenal job. I was really excited when they announced that they're gonna keep doing wedges because after nike has done <hes> i dabble all into other other companies and try and stuff which they were obviously there are still very very good but it wasn't the stuff that i was really really accustomed to. When i played nike wedges legis and slow down or was it was the week of the colonial <hes> i went and seeing <hes> <hes> some taylor. We've talked about one using college. He he'd remember exactly kind of what i what i use. We tweak that much i think and we just added a little bit of a babble in front of the on the on the leading edge just to make the the the wedges a little more personal whenever we go places places where it's soft and training that way just catch that gradual quick and be easier to chunk <hes> having us. I don't even know what to call the grind. I guess just it's my special sauce over the years review meiktila wet with and all of that. That's the grind that works for me. I mean you probably won't work for everybody but everybody's everybody's got a little bit different than somebody balance more than other people i i think my wedges have like to point something out so it's very very minimal <hes> they swallow the really really low to the ground. I can really opened up phase than i mean. It's it's beautiful and it's just what i've what i've kinda celts <unk> with even though like i said since we go very very little bounce we have to use a little bit of that that bevill for whenever i need to play soft conditions because it will be pretty tough if without that level to hit it chris whenever into the grain or is this all the ground is really soft but it does that the grind doesn't doesn't have a name is just <hes> just came up with through the years really. It's the abraham grind. I mean we got a name that yeah so i'm curious also. Do you ever alter your wedge setup a particularly the law based on the golf course your plane and when you and mike working on wedges. Is there a certain shot that you need to see when you're testing a wedge that what's you know if if you're on the right track yeah i always only god and seth s in the new car is really important for the ball to not roll up face. 'cause i feel like i'm making a good solid swing <hes> or like a little chip sean in the ball rolling up the base either lofton lies just off or the or the grinding is not helping me that shot like i said yeah. We've done a lot of a lot of testing to get the special grind for me to work perfectly in yeah i mean it's just i i love heating or having in the bag that low spinning shot and if i know i can pull that off pretty much any progress. I not have a have a recipe of lofton lie and grind and all of that stuff the al. Do i have to get to get to our out now and that'll do it for this. Week's episode fully equipped special. Thanks to abraham for joining us on this. Week's accepts owed. We're offer labor day but will be back the following week with all the latest gear news. Thanks for this <music>.
The Childrens Hour: Live From The East Mountain Library
"What kind of vegetables do librarians eat. I saw quiet peas. It is time for the children's hour broadcasting ronay eastbound library in daycare as new mexico anyway. The wind blows. That's where you'll find me is holding on to <hes> thing look for me when the rain goes clouds behind me and you hear the birds as they sing <music> <music> by eamon ara split fair allthough diverse gum at the rest of the rest of the scoop jeddah's lhasa <music>. That's we'll find me. Signed <music> goes the clouds are all new foods this <music> that path you're listening to the children's hour. I'm katie stone and we're here at the eastbound library with an awesome crowd of people high crowded people at our fabulous crew high crew <music>. I'm katie stone. Let's start over here. Who do we have with us today. I am chaban hello. It's my hello at ted. Hi i'm lucas heights mile lucille. Hi it's duly hi this is elliott and hello or and lots of great people in the audience and hello to seth hoffman who katie and everybody oh hello seth well. It is great great to have you with us and back with us on the children's hour. You've you've been a guest many times and we've loved having you and now you live in israel israel so you're kinda hard to book. Frankly our schedules coordinated well for this morning. Yeah i love it. I love it. Seth hoffman is a teacher and a singer her songwriter and he's gonna be with us for the whole show playing original music and playing some sing alongs in the audience. Are you all going to help us with singing along. I'm really hoping exactly yes nodding never works on the radio okay yes. That's a yes we also have an. She's going to come up here in just a few minutes shirley in piscataway and she is the district five county commissioner we are in district five of bernallio county which is a county in new mexico with it encompasses albuquerque and our mountain which is called the sandia mountains and here we are on the other side of the sandy as from albuquerque kirke for those who do not know and we're going to talk a little bit with charlene and commissioner scotty about living in the mountains. That's what it's like to have life with altitude and i'm sure some of our guests here live in the mountains and they know all about it. It's very different from living in the valley. When you say and on my crew i just want to see. Is there any news in the studio this morning. It's been a we're not in a studio but in the library oh yeah please great to have you back. I recently moved confronted out this area really so you're out here. In the mountains water tastes weird okay take the water tastes weird. Oh my goodness you're county. Commissioner is nodding this must be what life at altitude is like. I don't know i i. I love hiking in these mountains. Do you all like hiking in these mountains. Yeah what do you like to do when you hike in these mountains anybody going on up to the talk going on up to the ski valley. Yeah we're going camping. Ooh that's a fun thing to do in the mountains well mountain. Life is very different from city life. It's very different from valley life and we're gonna learn about that and we have so much more coming up on the children's hour but i would you like to hear a little more from seth off men and do you think takeaway right. This song goes to all of you who've ever experienced the joy of being outside of your comfort zone in life. Sometimes we have to stretch ourselves to do things that are new. That's what the song's about you started. Slowly wasn't the only right but don't worry. There's no hurry the time in you seen old part of living something new not always know what to do archies. It's good to get out of our comfort. Zone music helps us when we feel grace now lines in face now to me in this now started slowly didn't right but don't worry. There's no hurry taupin donovan. You'll see it's all part of levin. Something new not always knew what to to do. It's good to get out of our comfort zone music when we feel grace race now snap learning to make it in this as ooh ooh ooh seth hoffman the singer your storyteller and i know i've sung along with you. Can you play something where we can sing along sure we can play something. We sing along well. This is a classic song that goes back probably longer than any of us. Can you know we'd probably know and this goes out to our beautiful sunshine. You are my son shot by police. Show me when scott's <music> who please don't shy arena are at just the adults. Let's here we go. You are by son shot. Only shy <music> skies dot green you it please don't show all right all the kids under the age of twenty eight you as long as i know own beautiful talk and the only thing better than that when we all sing all together here we go <music> shot me eh shine shine one time you sir <music> skies you shot lease eh so please don't it was gorgeous cockman yet first thing in the morning here at the east mountain library into to harris new mexico. Does anyone know what the word harris means. I have hands going up. I've hands going up <hes> yeah kids on my crew. Anybody yeah yeah yes go for it go for it to harris means scissors scissors so i it came. I was in california recently and i came upon a place that was called t. hera hera and then we sat there thinking. How do you have just this one up. Is that even a thing like what are you. It's like a broken if you only have a faira so we were wondering about that if that's that's even a thing. Has anyone ever heard t. Hera no a lot of shaking heads. We wondered about that like why t- hera and y t harris speak to yarra ara ooh t._r. Raw tiara new mexico well. I'm going to invite charlene biscotti to to a microphone up here so come on up for just a second. I wanna get talking with you. You can come right here to this middle. Mike we're at the east mountain library library and t harris new mexico and got your michael fixed for you. Thank you very much good morning to you. Hello hello and good morning to so you and everybody great to have you commissioner piscotty. You know it's either piscataway or prescription. Let you in on a secret people in albuquerque kirke in my district say scotty like biscardi like the cookie but out here. It's piscotty like coyote. Wow wow this cody cody now. We have some rhymes to work with. I think <hes> an improv. What is we heard a little bit about living in the mountains by one of our kids crew members that your water tastes weird. I guess that's compared to the city water. Water tastes weird weird. Okay all right. What is some other attractive things about living in the mouth. I'll tell you it's tarantula season. The tarantulas are coming out. They they will be all over our roads and a couple of weeks. I just imagining listeners listening from other parts of the country and thinking way tarantulas. Is these things it's definitely a thing and do you like drive over them and squish them. I try not to squish them. Don't squish the tarantulas angelo's but what i do always wonder is because i see hundreds of tarantulas on my road. I'm like where are the rest of the year. They're probably in my a yard. Oh yeah have have anyone here in the audience. If you have say say somebody. Have you seen tarantulas out here. Yes yes every they're are raising their hands but yes yes. That's a mountain thing <hes> tarantulas snakes snakes to you have a lot of snakes what kind of snake we big bull all snakes and they can be really long like five six feet long and we love our snakes actually because they eat our rats hats which we also have a lot of wow so east mountain living is snakes rats tarantulas and bad water. What are the great things about living out here in the eastbound's. Should we know about well. We have some really great things to we. Have we have the sunshine. We have the mountains we have all the great open spaces great great places to hike or ride your horses. I have three horses and so just the outdoor. Recreation is the best we have all the seasons out here are summer summer was really nice and hot but it was hotter in albuquerque so out in the east mountains we're we're usually about ten degrees cooler in the summer and in the winter we get snow days. That is one thing i think kids on our crew can really all the kids in the audience can appreciate you all get get a lot more snow days out here in the mountains. Even though we're in a same school district is you. We're always hearing up. It's a two hour delay for the east mountains schools up. It's a snow day and i have to tell you those of us kids in the valley and in the city we're like why can't we live in the mountains but that's now that we know we're going to start saying because of tarantula. I'm kidding so you guys get snow days. Get a lotta snow. You get cooler weather. It's a wonderful place to come to cool off off. Get away from the heat but when i think of mountain living i'm always thinking about how like how do you drive around here without slipping slipping and sliding on the roads. It's kinda scary. Sometimes in the winter to drive around here it is but when you live out here you have to be tough and learn how to hug those curves. Oh tough we all have our we probably should all have our four wheel drive vehicles because you're right. It is a little bit different out here. The living living i think is a little bit more extreme because we do get those really cold days. The snow days are usually pretty icy on the roads and so that's a problem often are highway. I forty is shut down because of the snow and so that can be very inconvenient as well as dangerous so you just spend a lot of time at home here in the east mountains hiding from snakes tarantulas snow days. Oh no we don't hide. We nearly love our lifestyle l. out here. It is really different. I don't see yards filled with grass u._c. Yards filled with rocks and beautiful native trees and bushes is this is not very wet out here. Do you get a lot less rain out here than we do. You get more. It seems like we've got a lot of rain. We've gotten a lot of snow snow this past winter a lot of rain but you're right that the terrain is very different and it is very dry and one of the things that we have to worry about in addition to the rattlesnakes. It'll snakes and the tarantulas are the fires and so we have to make sure that we create what's called defensible spaces around our homes. We defensible sensible space around your home so you're going out. There and you got like your water guns and you're ready to shoot down the fire. Well you know we actually believe in really preventing fires so instead of standing with waterguns we like to take the dead trees away and keep all all the debris away from around our houses so that a fire doesn't start around our houses and if it does that our firefighters can get in there and fight the fires for us well. We're talking with charlene scottie scottie depending if you live on this side of the mountain or that side of the mountain and we're she's bernallio leo county commissioner for the district out here district five and we're gonna come back and hear more from her and just a few minutes but <hes> seth. Can you play a little music like for us of special song well. This is a music bed. Actually we're not kissing yet. Play bad for us and then we'll get into a song <music> <music>. You're listening to the children's hour. We'll be right back <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> in the children's hour seth hoffman place. They saw for us well. The song was a very special band out there called the potato band this the put goes like this and you potato band members out there. The not not dope band this two day can a to they have to say who was sooty though what's me <hes> she's up but day to day a <music> a i c c france i see jonathan wolf and is dancing dancing day a a no no fees <music> but they know this three cheese dip array booms. Let's let's go bam. Bash tap at jive jews it goes inflows lowe's booze that a tatum adult than than that back and <music> seth hoffman. You're listening to the children's hour and we've been talking about how we live in here. In the mountains at the east mountain library charlene pass scottie scottie scottie is the district five county commissioner and are you ready for us. He ready ready ready. You're ready. Charlene has storytime. Come on up to the front. If you're a kid so you can see all the pictures. Please come on a lot of kids in the studio. We're not in a studio lot of kids in the library and great to have you all here. Come on up. Everyone certainly scotty taken away. Okay so our book today is called. What do you do with an idea. It's written by kobe yomata and illustrated by may best <hes> <hes> and it was published by a publisher and we can get back to you later on that so let me tell you the story one day. I had an idea where where did it come from. Why is it here. I wondered what do you do with an idea at first. I didn't think much of it. It seemed kind of strange engine fragile. I didn't know what to do with it so i just walked away from it. I acted like it didn't belong to me but it followed me. I worried what others would think. What would people say about my idea. I kept it to myself. I hit it away and i didn't talk about it. I tried to act like everything was the same as it was before. My idea showed up but there was something magical about my idea i had to admit i felt better and happier. When it was around it wanted food at wanted to play <music>. Actually it wanted a lot of attention. It grew bigger and we became friends. I showed it to other people. Even even though i was afraid of what they would say. I was afraid that if people saw it they would laugh at it. I was afraid they would think it was silly and many of them did. They said it was no good. They said it was too weird. They said it was a waste of time and that it would never become anything and at first i i believe them. I actually thought about giving up on my idea. I almost listened to them but then i realized would you. What do they really no. This is my idea. I thought no one knows it like i do and it's okay if it's different and weird and maybe a little crazy. I decided to protect it to care for it. I fed it good food. I worked with it. I played with it but most of all i gave it my attention in my idea grew and grew and so did my love for it. I built a new house one with an open roof where it could could look up at the stars a place where it could be safe to dream. I liked being with my idea. It made me feel more alive like like i could do anything. It encouraged me to think big and then to think bigger it shared its secrets with me. It showed me how to walk. Walk on my hands because it said it's good to have the ability to see things differently. I couldn't imagine my life without it. Then one day something amazing happened. My idea changed right before my very eyes it spread. It's wings took flight right and burst into the sky. I don't know how to describe it but it went from being here to being everywhere. It wasn't just a part of me anymore. It was now a part of everything and then. I realized what you do with an idea you you change. The world have camera because i'd be taking pictures. This moment right picked up my there's a backup drive on being listed rhine nine <music> brian. If it's cliche today's dave all right feel free to disagree but as mel synchronicity the it as long as it's a shame am living for today. Go back to now right now ever <music> ah because i'd be taken pictures right now john samson from i'm a brand new release ageless songs for the child archetype and in fact he is a counselor and and some health stuff and that entire cd is full of songs about getting good child mental health. You are listening into the children's hour. I am katie stone and here with a lot of great people at the east mountain library into harris new mexico. We have a a fabulous audience. Hello hello folks here today. Well charlene elitist. Scotty is with us. She is the district five bernallio county commissioner. She was sworn into office on january first two thousand nineteen. She is a a licensed mental health therapist working in private practice. She lives she works in albuquerque but her home out here in the east mountains into harris which is on the the other side of our mountain so she goes to both sides of her district. District is on the other side of the mountain in addition to a master's degree in counseling. Charlene has is a master's degree in public health and sociology and has been self employed for most of her career and boy. Oh boy lots more to say you come from a military veteran veteran a law enforcement family and you got elected to be a bernallio county commissioner and essentially. We have one big question for you. What as a county commissioner do that is a great question because the county commissioner does a lot and so i will just summit up by saying that really sleep. My job is to take care of my community and my focus is really an health and safety and so ah some of the things that i do specifically out here in the east mountains in particular are making sure that our first responders have what they need in case anybody. Anybody has a health emergency or <hes>. There's a fire. I wanna make sure that our people are taken care of out here. I also wanna make sure sure that our roads are in good shape. We talked a little bit about the snows out here. Part of it is making sure that our roads get plowed in the winter. I also want to make sure that we have good clean accessible water because as you know that's an issue out here. We don't have city water like in albuquerque. So most people are on wells out here or some other kind of water. Some people actually bring their water in on a truck so i have to make sure that people's water's safe and there's just a lot of other things that commissioners do and <hes> one. What are the other things that i am really working out making sure that you all have internet service. You can do your homework out here. Wow you're in charge of internet service. Wow what does it look like. That is a great question because usually the day i have planned is never the day i end up having because i have a lot of meetings to go to because i really want to go out and talk to people in my district and really listen to them so i meet with people a lot and then i meet with people within the county to see how we can solve some of the problems that i'm hearing about. Is there yeah go ahead. What's your favorite part of being county commissioner. My favorite part is just meeting my people the people in my district and and in fact after a long day i will just like go and stop and talk to maybe a business owner in the east mountains and it just really lifts me up. That's the best part just meeting people one on one. Do you think working as a mental health counselor for your professional job is that is that a normal pathway way to public office. I i've never heard of that before. No that is a very rare breed and i have to tell you it's probably the worst back to back career choices because mental health therapist just sit there. We never talk about ourselves. We are very quiet and and being in in any elected role means. You really have to go out there. You have to talk about yourself in front of people and i have to tell you. I was really actually nervous about coming here today. But then i remembered something that my father said a long time ago which is charlene you have a face for aradio and and i thought this is just going to be a bigger way of me talking to my people so i'm very happy to be here today. Surly and for scotty oh yeah one more question sure come on up to the mic please so what has been your greatest struggle as a county commissioner. That's that is a really great question. I think having been elected just this year and having never ever ever been in politics before the learning curve was very steep just learning about all the things that go on in bernallio county there are so many different departments and our county slogan is burnley oconee is more than you think so that was the biggest part having to learn learn everything in a really short amount of time charlene piscotty commissioner for district five and bernallio county. Thank thank you so much for being with us on the children's hour. We really appreciate it. There is a story about a time. I was hiking through the desert to sound the desert in a beautiful colorful colorful butterfly came by to keep me company rocks rock solo around make up the walls. Make up ground. Uh if you listen real howard you can even hear you sal no no no nine in this explains that i does does cindy the over its own clothes and in my hand <music> getting so dirty but i do the sunshine sunshine in in my seems to blind or hypnotize hurt but one size as we cannot escape it one track flags their own my skin new a mass base and and and tried to beat them but they swing all the hills every which way <music> through the day with skies blue skies the zoo we will go home but the news we must images. This seem so unreal. They make me think they make me feel is in about the intense appease eases my thoughts elson mass does here whereas goose now look to the win all the dam holding onto this feeling in folding on along came. This beautiful colorful butterfly seemed most alone out of place as today just one scene seen beautiful stone <music> which makes me smile <music> <music> <music> butterfly thanks for making me smile <unk> <music> <music> uh-huh uh-huh and thou <music> eight gosh seth hoffman worth eastbound library and to harass new mexico. We're going to do some peter lenten and be back with you on the second right here at the east mountain library. This is peter linton and friends. I am proud mountain. The c. see i will stand up for all that believe and if i don't succeed on the first tenth will pick up again. I am proud of the mountain. Aw aw sea birds birds will pick up <hes> try again. I am to sign um. The stars will shine on you and you are ended <hes> fall doc the friend mosser gye again. I am <hes> guys the c and o b <hes> ah don't succeed on three matangi will myself up dry dry again <music> <hes> i am ridged larger full of good intentions will measure well then <hes> eh room listening man you. Do you all stand off aw that i do. I am proud mountain see i don't even i will be myself. I am <hes> mountain the see our status <music> for all believe and if i don't succeed on the first three jar jar i i am gaspar see the <hes> bandit <hes>. Don't you see on the. I dream job. I will try. I will pay jar. Peter lennon friends proud like mountain. That's the title track you're listening to the children's hour we are broadcasting from the east mountain library and to harass new mexico great crowd here but everyone's got a lot of ya ya. Can i hear ya ya yes we. We definitely do song's perfect because you get to move around like an animal and the psalm goes a little like this free to dance to this part and then when you hear the animal you dance like like that goes out in nate to live there maybe shape and every size. They live in the jungle russian desert walder's and sky. They walked back croly this and why what's bad attica something what gain it be over the coming towards me what kind of animal you ready to move like. The animal goes jump. Jim jones kangaroo jumps by john. John jump it jumps up before the jump. Jump jump jump kim jones. Don't jaw ban bon bon bon in the sun goes down those kangaroos get real sleepy and they lay down get quiet as can be indeed sound drifting off to sleep sleep. They think there might be another animal. Iryna dance out in the animals live very shame obey size in the xinjiang. What the goal they swim and they what's that the guy you something. What can it be <music> slid. There's live this snake slithers by the slid this before my eyes slit this the vigorously there and <hes> it stinks but then the sun goes down even those snakes again was sleepy in the rat brought down get quiet as can be and they don't make a sound because drifting to sleep the same. Maybe one more hannibal all maybe there is out in animals live vami shaping emmy yeah in the forest and the jungle desert wall does sky and they they swim and what's that i think here's something what gain it'd be from herat <music> go fly an eagle flies by flies uh-huh before my eyes lifelock lion ride those eagles use the sun goes down and even those e giver sleepy down get quiet as can be make a sound drifting off to sleep drifting off to sleep. Uh good ding do yeah the whole room dancing. I really thought you were gonna talk it. I really thought you were going to talk about the tarantulas you know because after all we just heard that there's restraints if i was in a room with about fifty huge tarantulas i i thought about that i was in breathing. It'd be like being in the hobbit in real life exactly well south hoffman performing for us on the children's hour here at the east mountain library and you you have so many songs seth all of which you've written your pretty pretty talented music writer there. Thank you katie and you teach children. I teach whoever's willing and teach me well. That's the way to be. Can you give us a little music bed. When we give some announcements here for audience that'd be awesome some the children's hour and then produced by katie stone and during this week provided by andres martinez says along with mark. You'll board who's in the studio up at k. u._n._m. Mardi adam smith is our coast predominant engineer manasseh officer and gary new l. Take our photos and the children and the kids p- routine team manages our our social media find us on instagram facebook and twitter where t._e._c._h._o. Radio we'll be back next week with another edition of in many thanks to the albuquerque bernallio county public library system. I'm just to note. They are sponsors of k. u._n._m. In albuquerque new mexico seth hoffman. Can you play a song for us that takes us away takes us out of here and send us all home with a happy heart and a song beat and songs just remind us just to go with the flow sometimes acts huts goo ga that just go with the flow knees home lafayette's doc. It's goo- did fluids. You'd be here with you with the common and again then you sit <music>. Stay with play with here we go. Oh aw knees bad knees lasts barrel ratted b-be again and then you <music> stay play that he took who <music> up ch- debited egidi go with the flow with it or at a few don't do with it be with the deal with the new c._e._o. Zero with louis or feudal new with it stay with play it again <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> the report the six five horses. It seems to beat her to eh meter wall and it is just you end up. We'll ask yeah coming. She'll be coming round. Take on round win. <music> <music> uh-huh <music> <music> <music> doc don't uh-huh <music> <music> they and the children's hour is a production of the children's hour incorporated a new mexico nonprofit dedicated to producing high quality kids public lick radio support provided by the friends of the children's hour more at children's our dot org there you can find our social media feeds pictures from our shows news podcasts and our contact form. Let us know what you think of the show. Y'all wolf is a proud supporter of the children's hour. Meow wolf creates immersive immersive experiences that transport audiences of all ages into kaleidoscopic rome's story and exploration meow wolf dot com our theme music was written by c. K barlow got a great idea for a show. You can email us at info at children's our dot org. We'll be back next last week with another addition of our case.
The Political Crisis in Puerto Rico
"From The New York Times I'm Michael Barr this vidale today hundreds of leaked text messages reveal view the governor of Puerto Rico mocking his own citizens from Puerto Ricans. It was the last straw it's Friday July nineteenth <music> <tone> Hi Patty Hello Michael Barbaro. Hello Hello how're you. I've been better how are you. I'm okay. Why have you been better? What's the matter just tired? It's been really long nights but that's okay. You've been staying up late covering the protests. Yes sir. There's a mean in Puerto Rico of people saying okay. I'm going to bed a friend telling them like but what are the governor resigns and like the person lying in bed with their eyes wide open like they don't WanNa miss that moment and so right right right right like the one moment you does off as the moment at all happens. That's what we live in Europe. I reached Padamsee a national correspondent for the Times in San Juan. How do you for most listeners? I suspect the story three of Puerto Rico sort of hits the pause button in October of two thousand Seventeen Hurricane Maria hits the island is thrown into darkness and into chaos and president trump's response is seen by many as insensitive and insufficient sufficient yes but the story came back in April of this year when members of Congress were considering a disaster aid bill nature's voices have battered the United States in the past half year storm win floodwaters and deadly wildfire to those natural disasters now add a man made one not just for Puerto Rico but for a bunch of states on the mainland that had suffered various natural disasters dispute between President Trump and Democrats over hurricane relief for Puerto Rico is threatening disaster relief funding for California's wildfire victims and the president wanted wanted to hold up the bill just because he did not want to send money to Puerto Rico this were billions of dollars that would have gone to Florida Texas states in the Midwest that were suddenly at this impasse because the president said I'm not sending more to Puerto Rico President trump accused Puerto Rico's leaders of misspending money they had already received. He said the government can't do anything right that the place is a mess and nothing works there Eric. Here's part of the tweet the polls are grossly incompetent spend the money foolishly abruptly and only take from the U._S._A.. And therefore he did not trust Puerto Rican leaders to manage new funds well the best thing that ever happened to Puerto Rico the tweet says is the President Donald J trump and what's the response in Puerto Rico this time so Puerto Rican still don't like being called out by the president they find that offensive but that doesn't mean gene that some of them at least don't agree with some of the substance of his criticism which is that the leaders on the island have always been very good fiscal stewards of public funds. Mhm Puerto Rico has suffered financial troubles for years and has had corruption scandals for decades and so people on the island were wary that once again and some of this might come up with billions of dollars in recovery aid flowing into the island so Puerto Ricans don't entirely disagree with the president that perhaps the island can't be trusted with the money no and that's what made some of their response nuanced right. You can be mad that the president the only time he talks about you is to say bad things and still think he's got a point in that our leaders haven't haven't always done well by US mean in fact Puerto Rico is effectively bankrupt. They're in a twelve year recession and they have a debt crisis. Their leaders borrowed until they couldn't anymore the Lindgren of money so what happens next and this offered to nominate sang these awful Dario Cantor our two hundred major elements and so three weeks ago Puerto Rico's treasury secretary says an on Explosive Radio interview that he has gone to federal authorities to report this institutional mafia he calls it within the government that is trying to extort him <music> in a matter of ours. The governor asks the Treasury Secretary for his resignation saying he can't trust him because the secretary didn't go to the governor to tell him what he had found he went straight to the feds. The Puerto Rico Ricardo over the Sierra Corruption Propia. He's firing the Treasury Secretary for reporting <music> alleged extortion attempt to the United States government as you can imagine that doesn't sit well with some of the governor's critics and also but some of the secretaries family members illegal exit the Sierra Maldonado Ehore so what if this. Expert Ghetto is signed takes to social media to criticize governor and then the son gets investigated by police and this starts turning into a real drama six people people including two former Puerto Rican officials were arrested for allegedly diverting millions and federal funds to unqualified politically connected contractors yesterday in the middle of all this last week the U._S. Attorney's Office in Puerto Rico announces six high profile arrests including of the former education secretary and of the former executive director of the Islands Health Insurance Administration Agency the alleged scam involves fifteen point five million dollars colors and federal funding allocated since twenty seventeen. The feds say they were defrauding the federal government. Here's what is really so disappointing Julia Kelleher she was impressive. She was driven. She seemed like takes someone who could do some good things. It's such a slap in the face for an island that means so much to see her go down. If this is true and what I was thinking too is that you know Puerto Rico P._r.. Does not need any bad A._p._R.. Domino and to top it off the governor is on vacation in Europe. He calls off his education leaves his wife and children on a cruise ship in the Mediterranean and flies back to get back to the island wind as quickly as possible and then while he's flying back. There's a new wrinkle someone leaks bits and pieces of a group chat on the messaging APP Telegram Graham between the Governor and eleven of his closest aides and in this leak our offensive and profane comments that they make about some of their political opponents there is is a snapshot that the governor posts of a tweet by the former speaker of the New York City Council Melissa Mark Vivid He Dole who was originally from Puerto Rico where she's criticizing Tom Perez the president of the Democratic National Committee and the Governor's governors response is Mister Hinson lead. I offended them. E Lindsey my up Oba which in English means our people need to go out and defend Tom and go oh after this whore so well first of all good afternoon. Thank you all for for being here so by the time the governor lands in San Juan briefly. I wanted the to up to the press. The entire press corps has assembled and is ready to pounce. What a strategy are you using to continue the operations of government and the economy for the economy to continue so good good question spent some calls calls for your resignation from your political position? Do you have a decision or answer to that call so so I'm moving forward with all of my elected position. You were the leader of this chat room that conspire to discredit people people you didn't like why would you do that again. <hes> I've already mentioned <hes> I am <hes> I I am not proud of what I did. <hes> those were merely comments but they were hurtful comments so I I apologize for what what I've done and how does that explanation go over now particularly well. The people who were insulted in the chat say that this is unacceptable behavior by their leaders and Puerto Ricans eakins in general who have been seeing these bits and pieces come out are sort of just waiting for the next one to drop and then it's not that there's another bit that Drops Governor Ricardo Rocha so you has been under fire since nearly nine hundred pages of a private group chat were leaked in publish this weekend by the Center for it's eight hundred eighty nine pages published on Saturday morning by Puerto Rico Center investigative reporting detailing tailing two months of this chat in full the leaked chatroom conversations between the Governor and eleven others are laced with profane homophobic and sexist comments and what is in the second batch of messages. The second batch of messages has more insults where not only are they targeting critics of the governor in his administration but also their allies for example a young man who is overweight wait who met with the governor and there's a picture in the chat of the two shaking hands and the governor making a crack about north way my flacco L._A.. Luciano Deka No. I'm not thinner. It's an optical illusion and then saying boy we you know he generates his own gravity field. I mean things that are just really cool inappropriate yes but in addition to that there is the bigger picture which is that Thera- people in this chat who are no longer members of the government including a lobbyist who has his own business interests and he is getting fed sort of inside information from his buddies with the governor being aware of it so weeks after president trump calls the government Puerto Rico corrupt. They're all these indictments that basically say he's right and then there are these leaks that cast the Puerto Rican government as completely insensitive to everyday Puerto Ricans Yeah if you thought cynically that these people were more concerned about how they look than what they do if you thought that maybe they didn't really respect people even if they pretended outwardly. Believe they did and if you were concerned that there was if not real corruption than the perception of corruption that it could be happening that people were really cozy with their friends with lobbyists and business leaders in their inner circle and then what the chat did was confirmed your worst fears and prove that you were right and so people started taking to the streets spontaneously and they're very fed it up and so that's when I got on a plane and come because we're starting to wonder if this is going to force the governor to resign. Is this going to be a moment that changes things well. They're back at Delta. We fly to two three hundred cities. That's three hundred cities where people sitting in the car poorly three hundred cities where people miss someone in one of our other two hundred ninety nine cities. We don't fly to three hundred cities merely to bring us together but to show last. We're not that far apart doubts keep climbing patty walk me through the last few days in San Juan the streets of all San Juan are narrow and colonial their cobblestone streets mind with shops that are painted and colorful red and pink and green and purple and they have been deserted during the day and packed at night not because people are going to bars or there's a bunch of tourists here but because the protesters come down they come with flags lags in hand and they're wearing black and white t shirts with political messages and they're just standing for hours sometimes starting in the middle of the day under the scorching sun in front or as close as they can get in front two the governor's mansion cholesterol which which means the fortress and they start chanting and this is the Caribbean so the percussion is great they find these great rhymes with the governor's nickname ricky and so not just keep saying Viki no resign reside people were not just mad about these chats. I mean some of the signs were about that some of the chance where about that but one the things that was really stunning was the number of protest signs that just listed the number of people who have been estimated could have died under Hurricane Maria so sometimes just said four thousand six hundred forty five. She's sort of the upper end estimate these people have suffered not only through hurricanes and a power outage that lasted a year but also with major economic hardships and layoffs and school closures and people leaving the island on mast moved to the mainland and it all just was pent up and it exploded all at once and then the celebrities joined the people table and on Wednesday night there is Ricky Martin and the rapper resident they and the trap musician bad bunny and the singer eating and they're standing on the platform of this truck as the sun setting in front of the ocean the capital behind them and we lay looks out over this crowd between the capital and the palm trees and the ocean and she says it was about damn time to wake up yeah so it's clear that a lot of this frustration is landing at the doorstep of the governor but my sense is the because of the complicated relationship between Puerto Rico in the United States that the governor is not all that powerful right. It's interesting that you mentioned that Michael because one of the other chance that we heard was deke ideo at the junta shallow money breath ricky say when Ricky resign and take the board with you and that refers to this Federal Oversight Board that Congress created to handle Puerto Rico's finances after it essentially went bankrupt and that is another big target of these protests because the boards role is to tell Puerto Rico what it cannot spend and that involves layoffs and school closures and university tuition hikes and possibly targeting public pensions and so the board which is unelected and comes from Washington. Written has made Puerto Ricans feel powerless to a lot of them. It's just another example of how they have been colonized I by Spain and then by the United States and it reminds them that they can elect their governor they can elect some of their leaders but they cannot elect the president they are not state. They're not a country and a lot of this is out of their hands. So the mismanagement by Puerto Rico's own leadership leads the federal government a government that Puerto Ricans don't think release sees them as equal to the mainland to step in and it's sort of this vicious cycle cycle where the worst Puerto Rico's leadership behaves the more the federal government intervenes and also is sort of proven correct in his argument that Puerto Rico doesn't deserve or can't quite properly handle this federal funding right and in the middle the people of Puerto Rico keep suffering what happens now aw well. The people on the streets want the governor to resign but he says that he's not going to go. There's talking to legislature that they might impeach him but they have not decided if they're going to yet even if he goes then there's a whole new set of questions Ken his replacement in that case govern many Puerto Ricans would like more autonomy to govern themselves but who can they trust when the federal government is not inclined to give them more autonomy. The Island government has not proven to be all that effective. How can the next person lead an island under these circumstances under this sort of federal oversight without any money recovering from a hurricane and basically the biggest question is is this island governable? Is this displease a police that can be effectively run and the answer to that. Thank you very much. Thank you Michael Back. This is your wakeup call from the uncertainty and frustrations of waiting for a liver transplant. It's time to wake up demand a better way and get off the waiting list today instead of waiting months or years while your your liver disease worsens a living donor transplant at U._p.. A._M._C. in Pittsburgh allows you to take action now. This is your wakeup call. Stop waiting and start living visit life-changing liver dot com slash U._p.. M._C. to to learn more yours what else you need to on Thursday the U._S. Navy shutdown and Iranian drone in the straight of Hormuz not far from where Iran shutdown it down a U._S.. Several weeks ago the trump administration said that before it was struck the unmanned Iranian drone had ignored multiple warnings that it was straying close to an American ship the U._S._S. boxer. The attack is expected to inflame tensions between the two countries when their supporters last night were chanting sent her back. Why didn't you stop them? Why didn't you ask them to stop saying well? The number one I think I did I started speaking for a quick president. Trump on Thursday tried to distance himself from supporters who chanted send her back at a rally the night before when he mentioned congresswoman ill on Omar of Minnesota a reference to his own tweet about Omar and three of her Democratic Collins I disagree with but it was quite a chance and I felt a little bit badly about it but contrary to the president's claim that he tried to quickly end the champ video shows he listened on for thirteen seconds as the crowd repeatedly yelp on Thursday after the large crowd read it congressman home <hes> she returned to Minnesota and the daily is made. I feel welcome. Andy Mills Lisa Tobin Rachel Cluster Lindsey garrison any Brown Claire Tennis Scatter Page Coward Michael Simon Johnson Brad Fisher Larussa Anderson Wendy Door Chris Would Jessica chump Alexandra Young Jonathan Wolf Lisa Chow Eric Kripke Mark George Luke Vanderloop a diese organ Kelly Prime Julia Longoria Sindhu neon someone dumb and Jasmine Aguilera our theme music is by Jim Bromberg and Ben Lands for of Wunderle special thanks to Samdahl Black Michaela goujard Julia Simon Stella Tan and William Rash Bam. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Bavaro see on Monday.
Tilly Remembers Her Grandfather
"I am recording and it is working. Hey tilley hey how are you? I'm doing okay. Tilley what does that in your hand. Looks like a blanket or a stuffed animal. It's a blanket. Oh what does it say on it? It says powered by two and is it looks like it has an image of pepperoni pizza. Is that what I'm glimpsing only? It's pretty great tilly. I Really WanNa thank you for getting on the phone with us our guest this Google hangout with us and I wonder if you could tell me your full name and how old you are. Matilda rose prime first and then I am and I just WanNa start with a very simple question. How have you been feeling this past week? I'm Kinda Usually the two that I mostly in our stat and angry. Why do you think that your sad angry? What about we're feeling angry because I think angry more that it's not fair that he's gone and I feel like sad is feeling that he's gone shot. That were being sad from the New York Times. I'm like Oh borrow. This is the daily more than fifty thousand. Americans have died from the corona virus. Who's Craig Prime Orest today? His Granddaughter Remembers It's Friday may first wonder if you could tell me a little bit about your grandfather. How would you describe your grandfather physically? What did he look like? What would he wear those kinds of things? Well he he passed Clubs and stuff. Was he a pastor? Yes he was. A pastor. Used to be a mailman then he liked that job and he looks right here and then the mustache that goes right into the beard and when I was little I play with his beard. Because it just felt so interesting touching it with my hands off profit scrapie at like not to scraping burke glasses Time is still blesses me with Jerry bringing back whenever walked into the house. He just be like Hobo. But just it's always something you said it's more interesting than hello. Did he have any kind of nickname for you to be might one? Yeah 'cause Bryant Force they just caught me tilly. Be An editor's rhymes with part. Which part rhymes tilly. And then be it's kind of like it just goes together and then he always make me happy. I'd never vache really get upset around him. Almost hurry I must you were hurt. You said E-e-eh 'cause we did also crazy things. We now need to understand some of the crazy things you did with them. Well it take me out on the roof foods Sleeping Bag Ruth roof of your of your house. No my grandma's house but we didn't tell my dad about it until afterwards how it sounds like. He has a slightly mischievous quality to him. Yeah can you tell me about that? What was that like well? It would usually be like the middle summer and with grabs the step ladder and open the window. Put THE SCREEN. Climb up onto the edge of the roof up to a special spot late there on the roof. We just the stars and talk for awhile. What kinds of things would your grandfather for the big dipper? Maybe the Milky Way for Lucky and Mars might be wait but isn't Mars of planet. Nagas tar you can see it as a Red Star Kinda. The stars were really bright and it was really warm outside. It was beautiful. How often would you see your grandfather? We wouldn't see him like every single weekend but like we do a lot. He came to my school needs. Sit in the lunch with me. Wow he would just show up. Did he announced himself was unexpected. Even never tell me that he was coming and he'd just waiting for me right next to the lunch door just waiting for me that I look around for him every time he'd sit right next to me and I have. I liked bacne. Kinda just pick out things from NC. Take my chips and they'd be like Popeye. He talked to my friends. You talk about like all these funds things like all stories about like going to Tanzania in all sorts of things and. What would you think when you saw him? I'd be proud. I'd be proud that my grandpa comes to this. Is My school allowed to just eat lunch with me until my friends all these stories just there when I needed it. We feel really nice Grandpa's are grandma's do that. That's really special So I want you to tell me if you're willing the story of the last few weeks and what happened with your grandfather. Yeah I wonder where you think we should start. I think we should thank start from the beginning So my grandma went to the holy limbs. He wanted to take his church group there so they went to the Middle East. Where Baby Jesus was born like this third place and then they got like this morning there. An outbreak has started here. The Corner Var's than so when they come back they were straight into quarantine. But when they came back papa started getting like really ill yet high fever really high fever and in my mind. I was home I was like. Oh He's fine. He'll he'll get through. This is strong but then he got worse and worse. Smells like no words can have been kinda worried state but like not like a really really sad Until a couple weeks later he just couldn't do it any dot lifted to the hospital here until he were you talking to him during this time. No I get to talk to middle me then like centers but I know even to read those I remember so when I heard about that. He was putting the hospital Worse mom was like. Do you want to speak with one of his shirts? Like yeah so she brought me. This is just like a Greenish Brown. Tee-shirt were you. Were you wearing it or was it just beside you was wearing it. It really big on me. it's kind like cold it really soothing to wear it though. I want to feel like I was close to him giving him a Hug. I thought about him the whole night. I prayed that he would make it serve. He wouldn't have to go but my prayer really true 'cause he had a stroke during the night from a heart disease that he had and that may super worship even if we get him back even actually like would be there but he wouldn't be there he can do anything like talk into the things that made him him. And how did you turn the news? I'M GONNA call. And then I looked at her and I worry so I can just distinct steph. Non-nato me what happened. And what did she tell you she told me about the living world my my grandmom. My Dad knife ankles read. Read it for the doctor to them that it said that if something happened went to go he didn't WanNa like have to suffer in this state. So your grandfather heads ridden will that made clear that if he got very sick and he'd reached a condition where things weren't working out that he wanted to be allowed to die here in. You just want to go to Heaven Buzek Ahmad. He says he wanted to fall in the arms of cloud. That's what he wrote He. He was the phone arms Claude. He's safe trust fall really and I had like I couldn't handle like I knew that he wouldn't be swing that he wouldn't be wispy anymore. That was hard to know how you holding up their name. Okay. It's hard talking about it but it just makes me happy to talk about show. Great he was happened. I've lost my grandparents to. It's one of the kind of sad evitable things that it means to be alive. Is that the people before you die. And it's really hard. It is really hard when you're being very brave and telling the story. I know how difficult it must be. This episode of the daily is supported by the new showtime original series penny dreadful city of angels when a gruesome murder shocks nineteen thirty eight Los Angeles Detective Tiago Vega and his partner. Louis Michener find themselves grappling with Nazi spies crooked politicians and powerful supernatural forces. Natalie dormer Daniels of auto and Nathan Lane Star and Penny dreadful city of angels now streaming only on showtime the daily listeners can try showtime free for thirty days go to showtime DOT COM now and enter co- daily offer expires may twenty four th twenty twenty. Hey everybody. This is Jennifer theme and Wesley Morris and we're culture writers at the New York Times and the host of a podcast called still processing. And like you all were making the most of the situation. We're watching a lot of things. We're reading a lot of things and every Thursday. We're talking about him on our podcast. We're going to stay in. We're going to wash your hands and moisture is and we're going to be recording episodes of the show from our living rooms. That'll drop every Thursday so tune in to still processing. Where every light to get your podcasts. Ooh Can I ask you to describe sadness to me what that feels? Like if you like hard sadness like a hard one for me. Happiness do easily but like Sam Missiles Kinda Hard. Why is happiness easy and wise sadness hard? Do you think I don't know any mean sameness isn't emotion? That is kind of like more like deeper. It's Kinda like a big big motion. Happiness can be big but not as much as sadness. does a depth to it. That makes it hard to describe. He's trying to feel like sadnesses like just an ocean. Fill the nothing Have you noticed that the people around you your parents that they are said to? Yeah so my dad will go sign a law. You can tell. He's getting angry in these really short tempered at that plant. Mom Will Kinda stay her office not really doing anything. We should sit around. We have seen mom try to keep crying to herself. Dad Too but I can see they were trying to shield it from you. Yeah insult feel it. Do you wish that they would just do it in front of you do. And why do you think they should do it? More out in the open and feel like I can help me understand my motions. This well like how they feel too. I feel that kind of gives you permission to feel the way you feel like when I was talking to my dad about Papa. He started crying. I started crying than we just hung. Sneeze you know a lot of kids are going through what you're going right now because of this virus and a lot of adults are going through this. I wonder how that makes you feel. It makes me feel they. I'm not alone and it also connects feel angry about how they still haven't figured out how the started. I WANNA know so. I could figure out like how it will happen again. Like was the cause of a human today was causing. The animal was both and if it turns out this is just something that nature and the universe gave us in. It wasn't somebody who did something. How would you feel about that? I'd be mad at the universe I know that a lot of people when someone they care about or they love passes away they end up looking for that person in the world or they end up thinking about that person unexpectedly. Yeah maybe they're they're her standing by you for thing. Yeah I feel like Will stick by me a lot but I feel like us out there like this stuff. New People helping them through their bad moments. I have a very specific sense of my grandmother whenever this song comes on because when I was around your age she died and a song was playing on the radio and it was a song that made me feel sad even though it was a love song on. If you've ever heard the song it's Richard Nixon. It goes wherever you go whenever you do. I will be right there waiting for you and it always makes me think of my grandmother and her death whenever it comes on and I wonder if you're having moments like that yet e-e-eh I do have this type of moments but like Kinda different than just a song. It's more of when I saw my Graham minor backyard because we went over just to the backyard. We weren't allowed to get close to anyone. Though I felt I felt like he a phone like sad but it also fouts pain to ten. We'll leave that. Tees is in Peace Now? He didn't have to deal with this bad virus. Justin have to feel pain or sadness or anything. Tilly have hugh con outside and looked up at the stars. Central Grandfather died a little bit but not much. It's the same without being grimace helps you? You will do that. You think there'll be a point when you want to do that. Yeah we said when we're going to go over to Grandma's house meet daddy that makes us Turkey then I'd go up onto the roof and just sit. There starts tilly. I really WANNA thank you for spending time with us and I want to tell you. I'm sorry I am about. The loss of your grandfather was really good to talk to feels good to talk to someone about it. It's good to talk back. People can do amazing things walk on. The moon contain a nuclear meltdown. And what do they have in common? They're not in it alone. Creativity talent genus. It's all a team sport. We have seen we thought was unsuitable. It was a step in a direction that nobody had taken before. I'm Gabriella cowboys. Host of T. Mistry it's an original podcast from Atlassian. All about the chemistry of teams. Check it out on Apple. Podcast SCHUYLKILL podcasts. Or wherever you listen. Here's what else you need to. The latest data from the Labor Department shows them more than thirty million. Americans have filed for unemployment benefits since the start of the pandemic but the Times reports that the real figure is probably much higher. A new study found that about eight million more Americans have either failed or not even tried to apply for unemployment. Meaning that close to forty million may now be unemployed. President trump is leading the federal guidelines for social distance which will put in place in mid March expire. As of this morning. We'll be fading out because now the governor's doing it. I've had many calls. From Governor Governor of Texas during a meeting in the Oval Office trump said that responsibility for social distancing would now fall to governors. I am very much in favor of what they're doing. They're getting it going and we're opening our country again. Explain it finally. We are doing a lot of things here that we've never done before but This is as ambitious as anything that we've ever undertaken in New York officials said that the New York City subway system the only system in the country that runs twenty four hours. A day will now be shut down every night between one and five. Am so that trains can be disinfected. We have you essential workers who we are so grateful to because they're coming to work every day we all say thank you but gratitude is best acted upon right. I want to know that they have safe clean. Decent transportation and that means we have to disinfect. The trains every twenty four hours the virus. The subway has shutdown just twice in the past decade both times when it was flooded during hurricanes the daily is made by feel ALCOM. Andy Mills. Lisa Tobin Rachel Wester Lindsey Garrison Anti Brown Claire Tennis scattered page Cowan. Michael Simon Johnson Brad Fischer Larussa Anderson. Wendy Door Chris. Would Jessica Chung Stella Alexandra Leong Jonathan Wolf Lisa Chow Eric? Kripke Mark George. Luke vanderloop a Diese Egan Kelly. Prime Julia Longoria Sindhu. Yana summoned. Mj Davis Lynn. Austin Mitchell Sayer. Vado Nina potluck. Dan POWELL DIV Sean. Sidney Harper Daniel Gi met Hans Buteau Robert Jemison Mike bete-noire Bianca gave her an Asta Chatrapati. Our theme music is by Jim Brown. And Ben Lands for of Wunderle special thanks to Sam Dolan McHale Bouchard Lauren Jackson Julius Simon my Huma Chablon lean and Nora Keller daily. I'm Michael Barr see you on Monday. Vanguard was founded on the simple but radical idea that in investment company can succeed because it puts investors first vanguard is client owned you own. Their funds and funds owned vanguard which means vanguard is built to ensure that your interests will be the priority together Vanguards. Thirty million investors are changing the way the world invests visit vanguard dot com or talk to financial advisor to learn more.
One Hundred Thousand Lives
"Times unlikable borrow. This is the daily One hundred thousand lives today. We remember one hundred of them sir. Twenty nine Willie Levi was born in Orange Texas on August nineteenth nineteen forty six to ernest and Rosalie Levi. His father was a millworker. His mother a hotel housekeeper. The identical twins clean and Leeann. Boyd were born at Bennington Hospital in Vermont and March Thirteenth Nineteen fifty-six clean came at five zero three PM then eight minutes later. Leeann followed Leeann always said they saved the best for last NITA. Redman was born in Mississippi in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight. The twenty-first of twenty two siblings all lived in a railroad apartment. Three to a room. Her Siblings said she was nosy. She would always look at you with a stink eye. Valentina Black Horse was born on September. Second Nineteen Ninety one in Arizona at age seven. Valentine wore her hair in braided ponytail and carrot around with her everywhere a stuffed bear. Whose name was Mr Bare. Sandy Pratt was seven years old. The first time he climbed into a boat Washington and watched it sail unfurl and capture the breathes. He would spend his life chasing that feeling. At Nine Years Old William Helm Marchioness. Father would choose in New York City subway line at rand up to the end and spend a few hours exploring neighborhoods that they had never seen a madeleine. Kripke was in fifth grade when she was given her. First Dictionary can have the feeling that it unmarketable. Hey world for her. What's the book is Bit you? It doesn't let you go. I conceive of each of these books as a sparkling jewel sixteen Orlando Moncada left his home in Peru with his mother and two siblings and traveled up through Mexico hoping to cross into the US where his father had been working cleaning buildings. It was the nineteen seventy s and Orlando loved disco. So he would try to calm share like John Travolta. He would try to have almost fantasy closed like John. Travolta data at the time his family crawled through a hole under fence into the United States. Orlando was told it was good luck to reach down into the American soil and fellas pockets soon after they were arrested by the Border Patrol Wa searching his pockets the authorities found. He was carrying two things his comb in FISTFULS OF SAND. Orlando didn't speak English. He couldn't explain himself. They spent five days in jail in Mexico and then crossed again. This time successfully. John Prien was a quiet kid but his brother said it wasn't because he was shy. It was because he was always listening. This time period when singer-songwriter's were popping up like like dandelions in June and he said Hey Dave I've been writing some songs Would you like to hear it? Like blew me over. You know here was my little brother. Who is a genus? For God's Sakes John was sixteen when he got up. The courage to go to a local club called the fifth peg and play three songs when finish the third one. The place was absolutely silent. A few minutes or seconds later they they both into tremendous applause odd. He said what I I thought. Jeez I have really after graduating high school. John got a job as a mailman and on his routes he'd compose songs in his head. I always like in the mail route to a library with no books. He said I pass the time each day making up these little ditties no way somebody. This young can be writing so heavy. The musician Kris Kristofferson said John Cryan is so good we may have to break his thumbs on her twenty first birthday Britta. Lou Miller enlisted in the women's Army Corps and Edith Richmond. Took a skills. She learned as a girl in Haiti washing clothes and open to laundromats in Brooklyn when she got out of college and Sullivan was working at Walt. Disney Animated Films Lake. Peter Pan Wonderful shots before. She gave up her job to take care of her kids. Ralph Mindy He was twenty three and had recently failed to try out with the Green Bay packers when he received a telegram out of the blue that asked. Would you serve your country in an unusual way it was from the CIA an age? Twenty four Lila. Fenwick became the first black woman to graduate from Harvard loss. When Wallace was twenty seven the Washington Post wrote. His name. Is Wallace. Roney the third? He's twenty seven years old. He was from Washington and he's one of the best jazz trumpet. Players in the world wasn't German was twenty eight when you started working as a cleaner in the White House in nineteen fifty seven under president. Dwight D Eisenhower Arlene. Saunders was thirty two when she made her debut as an opera singer. An eight thousand persons stadium as a young man Rafael. Leonardo black supported himself with various jobs. Typist and a law firm macy's salesclerk but really his life revolved around his art. A self train artist born in Aruba. He Read Andrew on Ancient Myth and pop culture to create elaborate pencil drawings that brought together disparate characters like orpheus Andy Warhol and three giraffes as if they were all mingling at one party won drying could be years in the making but almost no one saw his work. He lived alone. They met at a wedding in Miami. Margaret POW was a bridesmaid Charles. Groomsmen Arthur went from barstool. Met His future wife Maryland. Louise Moser in the ASPARAGUS. Fields of Hadley Massachusetts Sal Zucca or Mr Cabby is. He called himself. Met His wife Veronica Griffith across the dance floor at club. Eighty to a story drag bar in New York's lower east side on that night. Sal always a flashy dresser was peacocking in blue sat in pants and a white sentence. Gar Jerry Spring- was working as an engineer on a seven twenty-seven Alaska Airlines redeye flight. When somewhere in the sky between Seattle Anchorage he laid eyes on a flight attendant Joan in her uniform. I wouldn't even call it a uniform. It was embarrassing to where he asked her out. I've prayed Catholic and he was divorced and I didn't WanNa get involved with a divorce person. I didn't think it was right at the time. But then you know I got to know him better and it was a really nice person. She said Yes to coffee. He eventually ended up becoming a Catholic. It meant you know it meant a lot to him to be Catholic and they got married in the basement of their church. Allyson Schwartz read the Velveteen Rabbit. During her wedding ceremony. Levy Barclay dropped to the ground at his wedding reception in Chicago to do the Worm Mellon Tina black horse who had grown up from the young girl clutching Mr Bear was so excited to have a daughter of her own. She had an emergency section. Gave birth to a girl named her poet. Black Blackhawks Jones poet after the protagonist and her dad's favorite book. She called her my baby Navajo address. Bay would often take his daughter. Gilani to Coney Island. He always brought books for her and they would read at the water from sunup to sundown. Jazz Pianist Ellis Marsalis junior breezed. Four musicians watching each one take up a new instrument even though he never pressured his kids to follow in his footsteps his son went and said he was too cool for that. Kind of stuff Her children were all grown. Up and Sullivan. The Peter Pan Animator return to work after twenty years she worked on the Little Mermaid Sea world. Such wonderful things could be Wilson German. The White House cleaner got his first big promotion to Butler. When President John F. Kennedy was in office? Thanks to Mr Kennedy's wife. Jacqueline Kennedy in his early forties Joel read released the most disturbing horror film of his career entitled. Sucking breaks lead sucking freaks. It soon had a cult following Joyce Winston was an editor at the Ladies Home Journal Vinton Mason came to own the bark and all logging company. Donald Horse Fall Co wrote nine books about computing in the screen writing classes that she taught at the Molina Jelonek developed the habit of starting out every semester. Despairing about her students lack of talent by the end though she was convinced they were all terrific except for one or two Georgina. Glose was renegade non. Bill Mantle was an optimist d'orleans Shuffler had a mischievous laugh Allen Patankar collected stamps. John Schoffstall was a football coach. Carmen Lydia Rodriguez was a huge elvis fan and Alexandra. Polanski was a huge fan of nature. Sixteen years after Mr McGee. He was recruited by the CIA. He had risen to the very middle of the agency's ranks in nineteen sixty eight. He landed in Saigon where the Vietnam War was going badly as bad turn to worse it. Shattered him. He questioned America's role in the world the as role in Vietnam his role in the CIA and his very existence he thought about unfurling a banner reading the CIA lies and then killing himself to protest the war instead. He decided to tell the world in a memoir. Why did we have to bomb the people we were trying to save he asked? Why were we napalming young children why did the CIA? My employer for sixteen years report lies instead of the truth. He struggled to answer those questions for the rest of his life. as chair of Louisiana's Developmental Disabilities Council April time gave frequent testimony and urged lawmakers to enact laws that could bring the marginalized into life's mainstream born with fetal alcohol syndrome and cerebral palsy. She was unable to take standardized tests. And so never received a high school diploma but she helped Hustle Law the provided alternate paths to a degree at the peak of his career and over four separate operations. Dr James Goodrich successfully separated twins conjoined at the head. The first time the procedure had been performed successfully. The twins turned eighteen last month. After decades of creating art with no audience Rafael. Leonardo black had his first New York. Gallery show when he was sixty four. The work was so finely detailed that the gallery provided magnifying glasses to view it. Most of the work sold making him more money than he'd ever had. He considered traveling back to Aruba but ultimately he just kept trying people who become what are called artists. Don't stop he told The Times. There's a saying everybody writes poems. A fifteen real poets. Write them at fifty. He hardly had extravagant plans for the money he planned. To buy vacuum cleaner. Helen Antoinette. Molina enjoyed jogging in full makeup. Fred Walter Gray enjoyed his bacon and Hashbrowns crispy Angelo. Piero enjoyed serenading friends with Tony Bennett songs. We Owe Shreve NI. Prefer Bolo ties to Norman. Leslie Jenkins Love to see the full moon rise over the ocean gene madden. Brosky loved being quiet at the beach. Peggy rakes draw loved mystery novels. Mattie Adams loved hats Dolma Holloway Torres had a passion for slot machines and Lillian. Press of Kentucky Dearly Loved Kentucky Miles Coker's favorite song was free by graffiti six. He had a hand held radio and used to line. His Cell Moves Berg prison in Pennsylvania waiting for the song to come on when he was first sentenced to life in prison. He couldn't bear to tell two sons the truth he told them he was just taking some time off from working to travel to the mid. West to train a heavyweight boxer but finally miles owned up to why he was really gone in his early forties. He became a heroin dealer and federal sentencing guidelines demanded that he be put away for life. What miles didn't know? Was that three weeks. After he was sentenced these guidelines were relaxed and a year later. The rules were changed again so that the new guidelines could be applied retroactively but nobody told miles in college. His sons learned that if they were going to get their dad out they would need some legal help and they enlisted a lawyer. After twenty three years inside miles coker was released from prison with the spotless disciplinary record. His sons came to pick him up and they played the song free by graffiti six on the way home and recorded him dancing along with the music once he got settled on the outside he was looking forward to traveling to Miami with his sons to watch the Miami Dolphins Play Football Celia plan to retire in April. Steve cousy played as a pitcher in nine minor baseball leagues but never made it to the major league. The most famous Jimmy Glenn ever got his box. There was when he lost a match to the future heavyweight champion Floyd Patterson Carlos are Nesto Escobar McCain. Was the only one in the family unable to get a green card. Richard Rutledge had an unfinished novel. John mcwethy plan to walk his only daughter down the aisle. The distance between Washington and Wall Street get shorter all the time our finances portfolios the markets are affected daily by the policies and politics. Coming out of the nation's capital Mike Townsend Charles Schwab Vice President for legislative and regulatory affairs hosts the original podcast Washington wise investor. Where he takes a nonpartisan look at the stories that matter most to investors down though the latest episode and subscribe at Schwab Dot com slash Washington wise or wherever. You Listen Juanita. Pippen's Nita for short was well into retirement in Florida when one day in nineteen eighty seven. She received a call from her only child. Who was dying of AIDS in Manhattan? Mum I can't get out of bed. Her son told her it's time Nita put her belongings. A friend's house took what she could and move to New York to care for her son. Devastated and ashamed by her sons AIDS diagnosis and troubled that he was gay. Nita initially kept the illness a secret from her family and friends and she felt out of place in the big city on breaks from carrying her son. She would sit inside. The Nathan's famous Hot Dog Restaurant in Times Square in repeat. I Hate New York. I Hate New York. I Hate New York. But after her son died she didn't leave. She became close with her sons friends and volunteered for Miracle House. A charity that provided the families of AIDS patients with housing and support for mothers who were confused or angry Nita was someone who had been there. And she encouraged them to be present with their sons for men whose families didn't come. Rita became a replacement mother sometimes holding their hands as they died. She remained a member of the AIDS community for the rest of her life. John Sebastian Laird. Hammond was a member of a Franciscan monastery. Mary soul was a member of the literacy volunteers of America Gertrude. Klamer was a member of the Sandstone Garden Club. Monaco Fuji Shero Huthwaite was the last living female member of the world. War Two monuments team. John Von Sternberg. Junior was a member of the old Khuttan scoots. Motorcycle Club and Elizabeth Pearson. Log was a member of too many genealogical societies to mention After decades of playing the gas station scratch off lottery and never winning more than twenty dollars. Barbara Kripke was seventy seven when she bought a ticket and scratched off the eight circles. The first seven were nothing but behind the eight words Jackpot one million dollars. She didn't believe it was real until she showed her husband that night but she waited a month to tell her extended family because she worried she'd upstage her granddaughters. Imminent WEDDING BARBARA SPLIT. The money among her family members including her grandson who used it to cover his expenses for an internship at PBS. Eric is now producer on her show. It was rumored that Kenneth Godwin of Michigan could spit a watermelon seed halfway across a double lot helen. Sylvia of Brockton Massachusetts was known as the Fashion Easter in her nursing home. Stanley Grossman of non-eu at New York was known to many for his Donald Duck. Impersonation Phillips Scar Dilly of colonial New Jersey gained notoriety for his free form dancing at family functions risk. Skopje knock was known to be able to successfully coke backyard birds to eat out of the palm of her hand. The pickles of the doors Turco of South Windsor Connecticut had earned him the title of the pickle. King Arthur Bar. Sto read every Louis. L'amour Western three times Herald Reisner of Lancaster Massachusetts took furniture repair to the level of an art. Form and Clara. Louise Bennett of Albany. Georgia was known to make up a song for her grandchildren every year on the first day of school. Her son J Bennett recounted. What she sang ruled is school old. Golden Rule Vase reading writing and arithmetic. Talk to the tune of Hickory. Stick out Ultimately Wilson German served eleven presidents. The last one was Barack Obama in her memoir becoming Mrs Obama featured a photo of her and her husband with Mr German in the White House elevator where he worked as an operator wearing a white bowtie. He was so proud to work for them and so happy to see a person of color as president. One of his daughter said he never thought that in his time at the White House he would see. Something like that Letty sixty eight was finally on the trip of her dreams through Thailand and South Korea but in a call home to her sister. She mentioned. She didn't feel well. Miguel fifty-one developed a slight cough Chicago. Sisters Sarah Jackson Sixty five and Maryland Williams fifty four became sick around the same time upon being to the hospital ten years after nearly deadly bout of Swine. Flu Merrick Dawson. Sixty seven joked. These viruses seem to like me Tomas Pueblo and his daughter had to stop talking on the phone because he would just start coughing so they texted instead she told him. Don't you try sleeping? He said he couldn't sleep. Kept HAVING NIGHTMARES LLOYD PORTER. Forty nine seem to be getting better after weeks on ventilator sally release family said their goodbyes through a window at her. Nursing Home Facility. Her family watched on video as Cheryl stokes. Fifty four drew her final breaths. Gary Young was fifty five when the medical staff turned off his heart monitor. Frank Gabri sixty an emergency room. Doctor died in his husband's arms. Tommy Brown eighty two died on the same day as his wife. Doris Brown seventy nine died on the same day as her husband. Israel sows was twenty two. His son was twenty. One days old. Harold L. Upjohn was ninety. One Philip Cahn was one hundred Bernice. Silver was one hundred. Six arena. Boras was fifty nine. Lineker Barksdale was forty. Seven does an Romaine was thirty. Six Dave Edwards was forty eight. George Freeman. Winfield was seventy two Steve. Hahn was sixty seven Islam. Udine con was sixty five. Eddie Ghankay Co was sixty two. Mary Roman was eighty four Rafael. Leonardo Black was seventy one Haley. Harare was twenty five. Ronald Lewis was sixty eight. Conrad I feel was eighty. One Francis Kennedy was ninety. Five Doctor Reza. Shah was fifty eight. Dr Julie Butler was sixty. Two Janna Prince was forty. Three Kimberly win was thirty. Three Raymond Copeland was forty. Six to Bailey was sixty three. Valentina Black Horse was twenty eight Cornelia. An Hunt was eighty. Seven last words. Or thank you back This episode is supported by a Jane. Rohan Affects Aka Jane Roe a new fx original documentary joins the growing slate of groundbreaking documentaries from Effects Aka. Jane Roe tells the Fascinating Story of the woman behind the Roe versus Wade case told directly by Norma mccorvey herself this documentary dives deep into her life and reveals the truth behind her story. In one of America's most famous debates this is her deathbed confession Aka Jane Rose Now streaming on Hulu. This is Lisa Tobin. I'm the editor of the audio team. At The New York Times a couple of months ago like so many other people are team started working from home and right away. It felt clear that something would need to change about the work we are doing. We wanted to understand what was happening with the pandemic of course but we were also craving something else something to cut through the anxiety and so we started working on a whole new season of programming. We're calling it the quarantine season you may have noticed some of it on your daily. Lately magazine style stories on the weekend. This is a story about amazing. Live sea monkeys and frankly it has nothing to do with the corona virus conversations with great. Writers are geared one minute and then like everything is going to be okay. Let's dance a series exploring the recesses of the Internet every day on Youtube people getting up and watching one hundred and fourteen thousand years worth videos. Each of these projects is quite different from the next but we hope together they add up to a bomb. This moment to learn more good ny times dot com slash quarantine season. Here's what else you need to the governor of Minnesota Tim Watts has declared a state of emergency in Minneapolis. After two nights of protests and riots. They're over the death of George Floyd who died in police custody on Monday but the protests only intensified in the hours afterward as residents took over a police precinct and set it on fire. Now Floyd who was black died after being pinned to the ground by a white police officer who pressed his knee on Floyd's neck for several minutes. Even as floyd repeatedly told him that he could not breathe a scene that was captured on video. You're watching an execution execute. Four police officers involved in the encounter have been fired and the Department of Justice is now investigating. Floyd's death my executive order calls for new regulations under Section two thirty of the communications decency. Act To make that social media companies that engage in censoring or any political conduct will not be able to keep their liability shield. That's a big deal. They have a shield. They can do what they want. President Trump has issued an executive order. Curtailing the legal protections that shield social media companies from being sued or held liable for the content posted on their platforms. The move appeared to be a response to a decision made by twitter days earlier to fact check. The president's misleading tweets about mail in ballots in this false election. One egregious examples when they try to silence views. They disagree with by selectively applying fact check fact check. F- act fact. Check what they choose to fact check in what they choose to ignore or even promote is nothing more than a political activism group or political activism but the Times reports that the executive order may backfire on trump removing legal protections could encourage social media companies to more aggressively police the most provocative message on their platforms including perhaps the president's the daily is made by feel welcome. Andy Mills Lisa. Tobin Rachel Wester Lindsey Garrison. Any Brown Clare Tennis getter page cow. Michael Simon Johnson Brad Fischer Larussa Anderson. Wendy Door Chris. Would Jessica Chung Stella Alexandra Leon Jonathan Wolf Lisa Chow Eric? Kripke Mark George Luke Vander block a Diese Egan Kili Property Julia Longoria Sindhu Jonah summoned. Mj J Davis Lynn. Austin Mitchell Sayer Cavuto. Nepal took DAN POWELL DIV. Shaw Sidney Harper. Daniel met Homs Buteau Robert Jemison Mike bete-noire Bianca gave her and Asta Chatrapati. Our theme music is by Jim. Bromberg and Ben Lands for of Wunderle special thanks to Sam Dolan Maceio Bouchard Lauren Jackson. Julia sign my Hema show blonde. And nor Keller. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See You on Monday. Between tour. Cancellations lost creative gigs and shrinking ad. Revenue the COVID nineteen crisis is making it clear that the system supporting creative people is broken. Patriotic offers a better way. We help creators make lost revenue and build a more sustainable income source by offering a monthly membership to their fans intern fans get access to exclusive community premium contents and the chance to become active participants in the work. They love Checkout Patriots Dot Com now and helped change the way art is valued.
Democrats Wanted Zero Tolerance for Misconduct. Then Came Virginia.
"From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbaro. This is the day. Today. Democrats have adopted a policy of zero tolerance from his conduct has or press. My members of their own part. The growing political crisis in Virginia is testing that approach. It's Friday February. Good afternoon. Dave for calling by marriage towns down. That's how maybe this is. He they're I'm trying to reach. I guess name Jonathan Martin in room five. Oh six I'll cook right now. Thank you. Guys. Hey, how are you? Good. I think we did find the right Mary at. Okay. Let's trumping Jonathan Martin covers national politics for the times Jonathan where does this story really start? I think it has a drew in the Al Franken scandal a growing firestorm on Capitol Hill after democratic Senator Al Franken is accused of forcibly kissing and groping a woman more than a decade ago. What if you recall, it was the fall of twenty seventeen another woman is coming forward to make groping accusations against Minnesota, Senator democrat Al Franken in array of stories came out and another woman has come forward accusing Senator Al Franken of groping her during a USO tour. She's the fifth woman to accuse the Minnesota Senator of inappropriate behavior there were Nuff charges against him Senator Kirsten gillibrand Claire mccaskill maisy Hirono Maggie Hass and bit. Finally, Patty Murray camera Harris, Tammy Baldwin, Bob, Casey of Pennsylvania. I wanna get urged him to resign. Fine, led by Cureton gillibrand now keen lid for president and keep in mind. This was the same time that in Alabama Senate candidate ROY Moore remains defiant at this point denying sexual assault allegations and rejecting calls to drop out now more had been accused of sexual misconduct with a group underage women when he was younger and the Democrats were trying to pick up that seat, and they didn't want to give the Republicans any fodder dilute their attacks against or more enough. This is a conversation. We've been having a very long time. We need to draw a line in the sand and say, none of it is. Okay. None of it is acceptable. And we as leaders should absolutely be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard, and we should fundamentally valuing women. And that is where this debate has to go. You wanna position themselves on the high round morally and politically in you take that and put it against the backdrop of an Alabama Senate race. Where lo and behold Democrats now have an opportunity to win a seat. They hadn't hadn't decades, and they are acting in ways that are going to position themselves. Best four serving and the United States Senate has been the great honor of my life and Alf Rankin was being accused of these things during that moment. And Democrats did not really has the Tate today. I am announcing that in the coming weeks I will be resigning as a member of the United States Senate. So what does asking Senator Al Franken to resign represent about the strategy that the Democrats were forming in this moment, I think the strategy was we have to police our own ranks, and this sort of implication of that was in the Trump era, we have to have clean hands. And if we're going to criticize the president we have to have a zero tolerance policy in our own ranks we cannot accept misconduct that is going to let the Republicans muddy the waters, politically if you will when we come after them. I remember Jonathan as I'm sure you do that some people saw Franken as a kind of sacrificial lamb for the Democratic Party to pursue this strategy. You're describing and I wonder if as a political reporter in that moment, you sensed what the conversation was among democratic politicians to just about decision had made western that privately. Plenty of Democrats were saying bit. Franken is. Basically walking the plank because we have to make this point. And we have to be pure on this issue. Now, they wouldn't dare say that publicly but remind the backbone of the Democratic Party in this era is women they are crucial to Democrats winning elections. And I think that the party felt like they didn't have a choice when it came to Franken in that moment, so zero-tolerance can seem hard line. But it allows the Democrats to call out the Republicans without any room for acusations of being hypocritical. That's the idea correct in. How did this democratic tragedy of zero-tolerance actually play out after Franken was forced to resign? Yeah. So I think the Franken president is what has first time. Now carry the day for Democrats you had other accusations of sexual misconduct. Edina, the house of representatives its longest serving member step down today. Under pressure Democrat John Conyers was accused of sexual misconduct. John Conyers longtime ever congress from Michigan. You had an upcoming democrat in the house from Nevada who also was similarly forced out because of serious actual harassment charges that has become the kind of Democrats rule of thumb that we're going to take us where zero tolerance approach on these kinds of allegations. We need one standard across the board. So folks, we're gonna call on Donald Trump design John Conyers who has retired over signed. It folks are gonna call and everybody else to resign that we have to hold Senator Franken anyone else that is accused of sexual assault to reside. And I think that is what really set the predicate going into the bread Kevin hearings. Democrats once they found out that he had been accused of sexual assault. A lot of them felt like this is somebody who simply cannot sit on the highest court in the lien for them. It was the very principle of do. We believe women. I believe you, and I believe many Americans across this country. Believe you that's the guiding. Force in terms of the democratic strategy on this. We come down on the side of the accuser, we believe women. This man is not a monster, nor is he what has been represented here and these hearings, but the Republicans, and what was really a sign of a divided country sided largely with Cavanaugh. And I think there was no more Alestra tive moment of this country's chasm on these issues. Then those premium court hearings last year, right? But it also to me started to signal some of the potential limitations of zero-tolerance go, which is that some Americans started look around them at the people, they know or at themselves and to ask what I want to be held to zero tar standard that the Democrats are holding people to write. Yes. Because what happened with the cavenaugh hearings was also this question of how far back. Do we go? In Oregon start judging people based on their high school and college conduct. And that was a huge thread of that moment. I think that a lot of conservative women, especially looked at somebody like you have on said that could be my husband could be my son who could be there is falsely accused and hot of other people looked at plsy forums at heck that could be my daughter, or my wife, and I his heck with them to be believed. So it did start this moment of the conversation of okay? What isn't is not fair game. And what is that line? We still have sort of defined that still kind of moving target here. But quietly you do hear some Democrats starting to wonder what how far is this gonna go and Virginia has really brought that question home. We'll be right back. With Lincoln learning, you can access over thirteen thousand online courses taught by real world. Experts to help you land that job nail that new project or earned that next promotion Lincoln learning recommends courses based on your career and helps you learn skills. Employers are looking for at every level. Keep learning all the moments that matter to your career CHAI Lincoln learning free for one month at linked in learning dot com slash daily linked in learning dot com slash daily. So let's just start Jonathan by reviewing what's actually happened in Virginia over the past week deep breath. Okay. It's been a extrordinary week in Virginia. Nobody in capital here has seen anything like this in state history. It started on Friday breaking tonight, a racist yearbook photo taken over three decades ago has surface leaving Virginia's democratic governor facing some. Mm serious questions about his past conservative website published a yearbook photo from governor Ralph north medical school and from nineteen eighty four decades old yearbook page suddenly in the spotlight tonight because of this picture of two people one in black face, the other KKK hood this immediately created a firestorm. He was either the guy in the Klan outfit or in black face when he was an adult in medical school. This is not some youthful indiscretion. This is an adult acting as a racist in by Friday night. Go to north head conceited and apologized for being on that page and ask for forgiveness. I cannot change the decision I made nor can I undo the harm my behavior calls then and today, but I sent responsibility for my past actions. And I'm ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. Well by midnight de. Kratz across the country and ever Jinya were demanding he resigned reaction across the political spectrum pouring in tonight. After governor Ralph northern admits and apologizes for appearing a racist photo that dates back to was med school days in hundred eighty four on Saturday, go into north, and reversed course, had a news conference at these executive mansion in Richmond. Our since I made my statement yesterday. I reflect it with my family and classmates from the time and firm to my conclusion that I am not the person in that photo. He concluded that he was not one of the two men in that photograph, and the he had no plans to resign did participate in a dance contest in San Antonio in which dark in my face as part of a Michael Jackson costume is. Because my memory of that episode is so vivid that I truly did not believe I'm into picture in my yearbook then. When Sunday Super Bowl Sunday. There is rumors swirling all day that tenant governor just in. Fairfax has some kind of a me too issue. It's not clear what it is. Now Justin Fairfax himself stands accused of serious wrongdoing at three in the morning on Sunday night. So Monday morning Fairfax, Lieutenant governor post a statement on his Twitter account preemptively saying that he did not commit sexual assault on a woman. Monday morning, watching the post published a story saying we reported this out last year around the time that Fairfax was being inaugurated, and we decided that we couldn't corroborate it, and we're not gonna publish it. But they did at that point offer some details about the woman about the encounter a politics. Professor from California called Vanessa Tyson says that Fairfax sexually assaulted her in his hotel room at the two thousand four democratic national convention in Boston Fairfax and fatty denies again the case and at that point start suggesting that some of his political rivals are potentially behind the leap don't. Have to be a political genius to understand that this is a complete smear. And in my character. I've put up for election for people to come for Jinya in three statewide elections. Never anything like this ever been raised not throughout my life flash. Four then to Wednesday where the state's leadership is already in chaos. People are waiting what they're gonna do. Will. They resign in rumors again pickup update now. Multiple scandals embroiling Virginia's top officials more hearing the attorney general has some kind of racially insensitive issue in his past a stunning admission from Virginia's attorney general, Mark herring. Who revealed he wants wore black face in college. He said he was dressed as a rapper and the style of the legendary Curtis blow this comes after hearing called that photograph on north medical school yearbook page in defeat. Profoundly offensive shocking and deeply disappointing. And that leads us to Wednesday where the state of Ginny isn't utter utter chaos, and it's not clear who is still going to be in power by the end of the week. So obviously this presents a kind of overwhelming stress test. I have to imagine on the Democrats zero-tolerance policy. That's exactly right now. This is where the rubber meets the road are Democrats going to enforce their own policies in this moment, where you've got three Democrats who lead a major state in this country who were facing serious allegations of racist conduct and sexual assault. Are they going to force all three out are they gonna show forgiveness for some? But not others. Are they gonna show for goodness for all three? We'll walk us through how Democrats are handling it so far and what they have been thinking. So far, the hardest line has been on north tonight. The calls for governor. Ralph north to resign are growing reaction with with with much of the outrage coming from north fellow Democrats state legislators, the Virginia state black caucus. For example, residents candidates, comma, Harris Kirsten gillibrand Elizabeth Warren job, I Hillary Clinton Obama turning. General air colder Bernie Sanders. Cory Booker or swale. Well, practically every major democrat has called on north to resign. He Democrats are largely United on that front. Okay with Fairfax. There's much more of a wait and see mode. Here we go again, except for now, you have Democrats who are avoiding talking to the press it's difficult because you've got a woman making detailed accusations now on the record Fairfax and Batley denies it. Neither of them have yet to produce corroborating evidence from that time. So Democrats in that situation are saying, I think it's important to have consistency and moral clarity. I don't have any reason to know whether just in Fairfax, he's telling the truth or not. But I think I'd say the same thing I said in the bread Kevin issue, which is there should be a full and complete thorough independent investigation. That's they wanna hear more. They want to see investigation. Even that's a tough Jewish in. Because what happened if there is no investigation. Does just remain the accusations of mistakes. In and the denial of Fairfax. What do they do? And what's his Mark herring? Need to go. Are there calls for him to go? What's happening? So no calls on herring to go yet with the case of herring. He preemptively apologized to the Blackhawks an emotional meeting Wednesday morning in Richmond. He seems to be on. So what steadier ground because of how he handled the issue also worth noting. Yes. Or is politics in the politics. Here's the law. If the attorney general of Virginia is to resign during the legislative session his successor would be picked by the legislature. Guess what the Republicans control narrowly state house and state Senate? So they would be in charge of picking a successor. If hearing those resigned, so that also has create some incentive for Democrats, hold their fire. So suddenly zero tolerance in the midst of a very confusing situation is being even more for complicated by politics. It's important to keep in mind, Michael if I can just go back for a minute to what happened in the case of L Franken in the haze of John Conyers, there was no real political risk there because you had Democrats in Minnesota who were going to replace Franken. But they democratic John Conyers had a really safe seat in Detroit, and he was going to be replaced by a democrat new real risk. They're two different story. I think in Virginia where you got all hundred forty seats of. The state legislature up for grabs. This fall Democrats are on the threshold of taking back both chambers, which would give them an entire domination of state politics, and you know, d want to ham Republicans the attorney general seat entirely by forcing him to resign in leading the Republican control budgets later appoint his successor. That's a much more real shall we say test of this policy than it was with the Franken or Conyers situation because you're talking about much more in the way of political sacrifice. Right. But I wonder is your sense Jonathan at the bigger question. Here is about that. Whether Democrats are willing to stand by this policy when it could have negative political implications like a Republican taking democratically held seat or that it's about perhaps this zero tolerance policy being too stringent for the reality of our lives. Yeah. There's two things at work here in Virginia as. As more and more revelations come out of college students appearing in black face and yearbooks. I think this question now is how many people are going to get swept up in this kind of investigation. And if we do apply this standard widely that that is a horn behavior of the has to be prosecuted with the loss of a job. Then are we prepared for lucky to lose their jobs? Some people will say absolutely it is an appalling demonstration of racism. That's the worst kind of vestige of the battle days, and we absolutely should penalize folks for that. There are others who will say it took place thirty years ago people make mistakes in their youth. They shouldn't lose their jobs and their livelihoods for their worst day or their worst moment, you're going to hear both of those arguments quite a bit in the days ahead because these Pacers of black face are not going to be limited to a few politicians in Virginia. You can be assured that this is going to be. Turning up and other states and other professions around the country, and it's not gonna stop here. It's going to be a bigger conversation beyond this state and beyond politics. We started by talking about Al Franken and the line that was drawn in his case as Democrats started to create this zero-tolerance all eighteen months ago. I wonder if in this moment, Democrats are recalibrating and rethinking that decision to force him to resign. Given the recalibration we're seeing now I think we're seeing the first makings of that recalibration. I'm not sure if they'll go fully through with rethinking their policy as long as Trump is the president, and they wanna have the high ground, but the best example of this kind of real time assessment is Senator gillibrand who led the charge when it came to pushing out Al Franken, but who has said on Fairfax that she wants to see an investigation. She was very sympathetic to the woman, doctor Tyson and the charges the doctor Tyson Baid, but some their children's not calling Ford Fairfax to resign. She saying that she. Wants to hear or see rather. An investigation of this case that itself is very telling the value of that. Jill bridge has been out front on these issues is not calling for Fairfax to quit calling for an investigation. I think does indicate the first making of some kind of recalibration on this approach. Jonathan. Thank you very much. Thanks bill. On Thursday, yet another elected official in Virginia. This time a Republican became ensnared in the states political crisis state, Senate majority leader Thomas Norman, acknowledged his role in editing a yearbook that featured racist slurs against African Americans Asians and Jews as well as racist photographs including people in black face, a don't condone it. And I haven't engaged in it. If you look back through that yearbook, you'll say first of all do not appear in any pictures any derogatory disingenuous way to any minority group. What else you need to? On thursday. The supreme court voted to block a Louisiana law. That would have made it harder to have abortions in the state in a five to four decision that suggest for now that the court will observe precedent on the issue despite its right Ord till under President Trump the decision in which eve Justice John Roberts sided with the court's liberal. Members prevents Louisiana from enforcing the law that opponents would close most of the states abortion clinics. During today's hearing we will examine a topic of great interest to American people. We've a view whether a president vice-president. In a candidate for the office should be required by law to make a tax return available to the public house. Democrats began hearings on Thursday about a plant that would force President Trump to release his tax returns despite his long standing objections to making them public. In other words, we asked the question. Those pub in have a need to know a person seeking a hole into highs office and our country obeys tax laws House Ways, and means committee debated a Bill that would compel presidential candidates, including Trump to release ten years of tax returns shortly after receiving their party's nomination, but Republicans on the committee, including Representative Mike Kelly warned against trying to release the president's tax returns against his will. It was set a very dangerous precedent. And the question is where does it end. What about the tax returns of the speaker members of congress or federal employees for that matter any political donors? There is no end in sight for those whose tax information may be in jeopardy. The daily is produced by feel welcome Lindsey garrison Waigel Wester Anne Brown. Andy mills I threes, Colorado, Claire tennis getter Michael Simon Johnson, Jessica chunk, Alexandra Leong, and Jonathan wolf and edited by page, count, LaRussa Anderson and Wendy door. Lisa Tobin is our executive producer. Samantha Hennig is our aditorial director. Our technical manager. Is Brad Fischer? Our engineer is Chris would. And our theme music is by Jim Bromberg, and Ben lands of wonderful special. Thanks to Sam Dolan. Mckay. Labou Dr and Stella tame. That's if the deal, I'm Michael. See? If you think Bank is just for depositing. Your paycheck immed- to experience first Republic Bank here, you'll find an exceptional team of people who genuinely care about you and your financial future, you'll have a dedicated banker who knows you by name, and is there to help with your individual financial needs big or small from refinancing your student loans to buying your first home, your dedicated banker is always a phone call or Email away. Visit first Republic dot com slash Acela. Are today first Republic Bank, equal housing lender.
How the Measles Outbreak Started
"From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barr. This is the daily. Today. The number of measles cases in the US has now risen to nearly seven hundred the highest annual number since the disease was declared eliminated in this country in two thousand many of those cases can be traced to to orthodox Jewish. Katie's in New York. It's funny able to six. And the heart of near city's religious Jewish enclave. Williamsburg Brooklyn around me are men with black hats the sidelocks that traditional payout. Religious garments. And about a block away. There's your Sheba's religious schools synagogues school buses keep passing with Hebrew lettering on the side. Reporter for the New York Times. Holly Jonathan we are here during story on measles. What else everyone's talking about it? So what's your opinion? You've got kids. You've. Vary. I definitely do. And I feel like besides the safety of my children. It's for the safety of the ones with come. From is helps. The anti vaccine community is very lound trying to be very loud. They're trying to have a very strong voice. And it's okay. You know, what everybody can do whatever they want. But don't put us into bad light. Don't represent the entire community and meeting between us. Absolutely. Yes. I went to rocklin. I had a very interesting conversation. A woman said a non Jewish woman. She said, I don't want to do this. But cross the street when I'm with my baby. And I see a person in the so isn't this embarrassing for us? My sister was on the train today. And they were bunch of school kids say let's not sit next to juice because they don't vaccinate. She was so disturbed. She was extremely disturbed. She felt very hurt by her fellow community members that made her look bad in the eyes of others. It was very sad, actually. Sara Maslin near writes about New York for the times. Sir. Where did all of this start? How did measles? Get Toya's Burke, this amick started more than five thousand miles away from New York City in Israel. So Israeli Jews tend to go for the high holidays to Ukraine and Ukraine is in the middle of a serious measles outbreak. So some unvaccinated people went to Ukraine picked up measles there. Brought it back to Israel. Now, you have Brooklyn Jews traveling overseas to visit family and friends to Israel where everyone goes for holidays to see grandma and grandpa and those children mostly took ill over there. Brought it back. New Jersey a warning people who are at Newark liberty airport last five that they may have been exposed to measles. A learning about measles cases in Brooklyn officials confirmed a fourth case this morning, the number of children contracting, the disease continues to grow just in the last week health officials have confirmed ninety new cases there about one hundred seven reported cases, so far up to one hundred fifty five cases that we've confirmed as early this afternoon. And the thing to know about measles is it's insanely contagious. In fact, measles is so contagious that. If one person has it up to ninety percent of people close to that person who are not immune. We'll get measles. Measles. Symptoms. Are usually mild at first runny, nose, cough, watery eyes and low fever, then the fever worsens and Arash starts on the face and spreads most people can recover fully. But it can lead to pneumonia even brain damage, which is why the US has worked for decades to get this under control and actually won the bad. Title in two thousand the United States declared measles eradicated from the country. Well, given that why was there a measles outbreak in Williamsburg versus just a couple people coming back from Israel. So to understand why this spread like wildfire in this particular community. You have to understand the unique nature of the Hasidic Jewish community in Brooklyn. It's a very communal religion to pray as a Jew you. Need a minimum of ten people to get together. So at baseline it really centers around community families have a large number of kids. I think on average six compared to the national average of about two and sometimes many more people babysit each other's kids. They spend a tremendous amount of time together and within this already combustible situation. A number of parents just don't vaccinate their children. And why is that since the invention vaccine's? There has always been resistance to them. People. Just didn't understand them initially me of get it right there administered to a little baby. They require a needle vaccines contain a version of the germ that they're trying to prevent, but I think you can trace the modern route of this anti vaccination to about the seventies one girl in three misuse of actually sometimes because of absentees sometimes because parents object. That's when study came out linking extra the whooping, cough X, and we're not talk about measles here. Whopping cough too serious childhood side effects, like seizures believe that risk of damage from the vaccine is now greater than the risk of damage from the disease, and it was essentially debunked. But nevertheless, it sent whooping cough. Vaccination rates pretty in the UK where that study was plummeting from about eighty percent to thirty percent about. About. I have decided on. I just think that she could be one in the million that something might happen too. So I just decided to leave then a number of documentaries came out. Also peddling wrong information, what we have found are serious questions about the safety and effectiveness of the shot really created a resistance among some parents vaccinate their kids really, particularly these ultra liberal enclaves, Berkeley or Washington state. And why there there's already among that group at that time skepticism of big pharma of drug companies pumping things into our environments and bodies that we don't need just to make a profit and an employee of a pharmaceutical company that manufacturers vaccine be objective in designing experiments to show fault in a product that generates close to a billion dollars in sales for his company these communities pushed for what's called a philosophical exemption that you can send your kid to school without being vaccinated based on philosophical belief and. By the nineties that's spread really across the United States. So now, you can send a child to school without having them vaccinated as long as you have this exemption. What should parents do? After report. Linking the measles. Mumps and rubella vaccines with autism in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight at this ratchets up exponentially these viruses lie a researcher deemed, Andrew Wakefield publishes. A study in a British medical journal called the Lancet establishing long-term infection, and they're capable of producing term adverse events, and it claims to find that measles vaccine causes autism in children as a very small study. It just included twelve children nevertheless wildfire. So you ask any mother in the autism community. If we'll take the flu the measles over autism. Any day of the week. Do you remember Jenny McCarthy she was the host of singled out I used to love the show. I watch him when I was a kid. We'll she picks this up she has a child with autism. And she goes on the anti vaccination rampage. I am a mom of a child bet on who has a voice that is willing to shake the Brown. Those responsible until our children. Publishes a book Jenny McCarthy is here to tell us about her latest book healing and preventing autism a complete guide, and she becomes really the poster child mom for the anti vaccination movement. So I think they need to wake up and stop hurting our kids, and we're not meanwhile, yesterday, a respected British medical journal retracted a study that said the M our vaccine may trigger autism study. I told you about the set this all off debunked. This publication which was wrong with scientifically implausible, which should never have been published to start with the researcher. Andrew Wakefield turns out he'd accepted money from entities that wanted him to reach a certain conclusion that vaccines were harmful the charges were he'd paid children at his son's birthday party to give blood samples and that he'd had a financial interest in discrediting, the m our vaccine and a journalist found he'd fabricated tremendous amount of data. But even the fact that this study gets totally trashed doesn't stop the idea that vaccines cause autism. If you happen to be apparent, and you say, I'm sorry. I God gave me a brain. God gave me personal choice. I'm going to say no to those vaccines because I've done my homework. It gets picked up by the tea party. Where is anybody saying my gosh, we're living in the days of Galileo because it's sort of plays into that. Government. Don't tell me what to do kind of thing. Third around shots convulsions within hours. Alex Jones, the founder of Infowars. This known conspiracy theorist gets behind it up, and we're working on getting any McCarthy on and then it comes from the future leader of the free world himself, Donald Trump. Dr Carson, Donald Trump has publicly and repeatedly linked vaccines childhood vaccines to autism, which do you know, the medical community adamantly disputes Europeana Trich neurosurgeon, should Mr. Trump stop saying this. Well, let me put it this way. There have been numerous studies, and they have not demonstrated that there's any correlation between back summations and autism in a Republican presidential primary debate in two thousand fifteen Donald Trump who'd been tweeting. And speaking about the subject of vaccines and autism for many years is asked a question, Mr. Trump as president. All right to you. Mr. Trump as president you would be in charge of the centers for disease control and the national institutes of health both of which say you are wrong. How would you handle this as president autism has become an epidemic and his answer? I am totally in favor of vaccines. But I want smaller doses. Over a longer period of time seems to link vaccines and autism because you take a baby and I've seen it. And I've seen it. And I had my children taking care of over a long period of over two or three year period of time. Same exact amount, but you take this little beautiful baby, and you pump. I mean, it looks just like it's meant for a horse not for a child, and we've had so many instances people that worked from just the other day two years old two and a half years old child of beautiful job went to have the vaccine and came back and a week later. Got a tremendous ver- got very very sick now is autistic, and now we have groups that won't. Let go of this discredited science actually, dedicated to spreading almost evangelists for the cause of anti vaccine called peach anti vaccine group and in two thousand seventeen we start to see a really targeted push by this group and others to bring the orthodox community in Williamsburg in New York into the anthrax fold. Why target orthodox Jews? What makes the antibodies people think that this community is going to be open to their message anti vaccine targets community not because they want to get their message specifically out to CITIC choose. But because they think they're protecting children and they wanna protect everyone's children. That's what they think they're doing here they fly their doors with pamphlets that are in Hebrew. And yet they've set up hotlines and robo called them to spread this information, not meant to persuade you in any direction rather to create an intelligent discussion about what we are putting into our children the purpose of these scenes where and why we? Don't know more about I listened to one of these calls, and I was stunned by the misinformation being peddled. As fact this community is particularly vulnerable to this kind of misinformation really because of how it's structured you're not really permitted to dig into the secular world for outside. Sources. That's why it's been so affected for these groups real use the tools that speak to this community, those hotlines, for example, people already listening to them. So when one robocalls you in your kitchen with all of this false information about vaccines. You're already primed to listen up for Larry flipped you. So big. A dell. How are you to talk to you thought? There's no proof that unvaccinated children are the news. And that's actually children don't and there's this other thing happening here, which is a cultural trauma that's been handed down through the generations from the holocaust where Jews were experimented on. And so make sense that there's this skepticism of government and medical intervention by the government. So this is not a religious belief among us Jews that they shouldn't get a measles vaccine. No, not at all actually, quite the opposite. And number of the people interviewed were really keen to express that. There's this phrase from the Torah finish Marta code Lynagh show safm. It means you have to take care of your body in order to do God's work. They actually believe you have to keep your health, but like any community you're gonna have people who do their own thing. And for whatever reason number of them chose not to vaccinate and given the insularity community that individual decision became. Everyone's problem. It set off a medical crisis. Measles is spreading this month throughout the orthodox Jewish community in Williamsburg and by March in both rocklin that's a little bit north of New York City, and in Brooklyn, it's reaching hundreds of kids and adults. Now later today, the city's health department coming together with the left it officials and rabbis to hold a meeting right here in this community. They wanna make sure families here and across the city understand the importance of getting back Sonate it and officials do something extreme health officials appearances through schools to keep their kids home. If they have not been vaccinated if you're vaccinated fine. You do you don't come to school, then they up even more yesterday's executive order called for nearly six thousand unvaccinated children to be removed from schools children under the age of eighteen who are not knitted are now banned from going to public places in Rockland county, New York public officials in Rockland county make an order that children. Without vaccination can't go into public places to later. We're here in Williamsburg today to deal with the very serious situation. In Brooklyn, the mayor of New York City, build a Blasios today, we are declaring public health emergency effective immediately. This whole mandate vaccines for people living in the affected area. It said everyone in certain zip codes hotspots had to be vaccinated. Armagh health will issue violations and fines to people who remain unvaccinated. We cannot allow this dangerous disease to make a comeback here in New York City. We have to stop it. Now. Can the government for somebody to get vaccinated when they don't want to be vaccinated, especially on religious grounds. If that's what they choose to say though, in nineteen five the supreme court ruled that a state Ken mandate vaccines, and that there can be criminal fines for people who don't comply. Actually, there's a great quota came across of a judge throwing out a case by people who didn't wanna vaccinate in Brooklyn. And he said the following. He said a firemen need not obtain the informed consent of the owner before extinguishing a house fire vaccination is known to extinguish the fire of contagion. And that's what's happening here. Yuba city that views this as as dangerous as a fire, and it's going to do everything can to protect citizens whether some people like it or not, however while I can burst into a house to put on a fire. If cannot force anyone. To get a vaccine to confine them afterwards. But it can't stop people from making these complex individual choices that endanger everybody else it can't. But it can find them and find them and find them and keep them in their homes and keep them out of public spaces and make it very worth their while to get onboard in what has been the response from the Hasidic community to the government attempts to end the outbreak. There's been a lot of fear and a lot of anger. They feel that they're under attack. And it's actually not a civic Jewish problem. Right. It's an anti vaccine problem that happens to be in this community. There are anti vaccine all over the world and across the United States, but they aren't usually visually identifiable, the Jewish community has a real visual signifier. So they say that by being targeted by these different interventions that have cropped up. It's creating a stigma about them that stigma is feeding into antisemitic tropes that are already. There. I heard some very upsetting things as I interviewed people in the streets of rocklin about people wiping bus seats, when they see a Hasidic persona- sat there about crossing the street and covering their baby. When a person with a black hat walks by those really, call to mind uncomfortable things that have happened in the past for the Jewish community. At the end of the day. It feels like we are all kind of powerless to stop individuals and groups from not getting vaccines or from not getting vaccines and stepping out of their house as an evidently if I was like they will. So that means that is we have to convince these people that it's in their interest and an hours to get exited. Yeah. And when I was in Williamsburg, I met authentic man who pretty staunchly anti vaccine actually stone, relative what have with autism. And like she said that child will decay to give since. We and always have a complication them. He's not feeling well, and then he pulled out his phone, and he showed me a picture of his brother the lips. If you see his lips whole like with listers swallow and his whole body and the young man was covered in hustles. He had measles when I spoke with complaining himself on the feel most just can't eat and feeling like horrible and hugely ill fever hit exposed children to it. And this change something for him. When you start to see your own community get sick when he had seen his brother, so unwell. He started to rethink his position change your perspective about this vaccine situation when it came so close to home. Avenue vaccinating might get my children I could of his community. I think the Husted Jews in New York are having that experience. And I think this epidemic is going to change a lot of mines about the validity affects nation. Sara. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. on Wednesday. Federal health officials announced that the measles virus has now been detected in twenty two states. With most cases linked to the outbreak any orthodox Jewish communities in New York and to another outbreak that began in Washington state in a statement the center for disease control and prevention said, quote, the longer these outbreaks continue the greater the chance measles will again get a sustained foothold in the United States. We'll get back. At fidelity, you get value. You won't find anywhere else decisions. They're clear costs they're lower and account fees. There's zero so you can invest with zero trade trade-offs opening account today at fidelity dot com slash trading zero account minimums zero account fees apply to retail brokerage accounts. Only expenses charged by investments such as funds managed accounts, HSA's commissions interest charges or other expenses for transactions may still apply. See fidelity dot com slash commissions for details. Fidelity brokerage services LLC member NYSE as I Hello daily listener, my name is Andy mills, and I'm one of the people that make this show before coming to work at the New York Times. I didn't quite understand what the reporters here did. And now that I've gotten a chance to see how much hard work. How much persistence goes into just one story that goes out? I feel like my subscription to the New York Times is a way of me becoming like a stockholder in what it is that they're doing. I almost feel like a sense of commod ary when they blow open the doors on a big. Estimation. It's my subscription money. That's helping them find the complicated and difficult truth of the world and put it into the public sphere. None of the work that we get to chance to do would be possible. If it wasn't for people who subscribe, if you're already a subscriber, thank you. If you're wondering how you could pitch him to help more reporting and more shows like the daily exist. Just get a subscription to the New York Times. The daily is the New York Times. Here's what else you need to noted on Thursday morning. FBI agents raided the office and home of Baltimore's mayor Catherine Pugh escalating a criminal investigation into her conduct. Pugh has been dogged by questions about lucrative financial deals in which local businesses paid her. Unusually large sums of money for copies of a series of children's books that she wrote and self published called healthy, Holly. Twenty ten canned cheap. First children's book. The character. Talk to young people. Could improve the deals amounted to more than seven hundred thousand dollars in payments. Many by businesses that rely on pews administration for funding raising the possibility that the book purchases were of form of bribery. I never intended to do anything than not stand up to scrutiny Pugh has denied any wrong. But hours after the raid, Maryland governor Larry HOGAN called for her to resign saying she had lost the ability to govern. And the times reports that in the weeks leading up to his announcement that he would run for president former vice president Joe Biden, privately apologized to Anita hill for what she endured during the nineteen ninety one confirmation hearings of Justice Clarence Thomas, as chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, Biden oversaw those hearings which involved aggressive and skeptical questioning Bill. As she testified that Thomas had sexually harassed her after her conversation with Biden hill told the times she was unsatisfied with his apology and could not support his candidacy. The daily is made by feel Belkacem Andy mills Lisa Tobin, which will quest her Lindsey garrison any Brown, Claire tennis getter page count. Michael Simon Johnson Brad Fisher, the ricin Anderson Wendy door. Chris would Jessica Chung Alexandra Leong Jonathan wolf Lisa Chow. Eric Kripke, Mark, George and Luke Vander blue. Our theme music is by Jim Bromberg, and Ben Landsberg of Wunderle special. Thanks to Sam dole MC McCabe. Ooh. Chard Stella tan. Julia Simon and Samantha Hanoch. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Barr. See you on Monday. Hey, there the daily his created a weekly newsletter that takes you behind the scenes of how we think about the news tell stories and make this show every Friday, you'll hear from me and the producers who create the daily wash your feedback from listeners good and bad. And we'll let you know what podcast or listening to to sign up. Go to NY times dot com slash newsletter. That's NY times dot com slash newsletter. And thanks.
The Crackdown on Kashmir
"From the new york times i'm michael barr. This is a today since nineteen forty seven in the his granted the pupil of cash a set of protections that guaranteed their autonomy geoffrey garin on why india just erased that autonomy. It's friday august jeffrey. Tell me how you came seem to understand what was going on in kashmir so over the weekend i have been talking closely with a a local journalist who works for us named samir yasser. I've worked with a lot. I've traveled across kashmir with him. He had told me that the house of indian army troops had flooded in to the valley in the last few days and there were barriers being erected people were being called up for extra duty who worked for the government satellite phones were being passed out police officers and and it's samir was just describing this anxiety and confusion and sense of doom hanging over the valley. He gave me the impression that there was a big preparation for some type of clamp down and he and i had a plan that we were gonna talk on monday. We're going to put together a story on monday and he said you know what let me send it to you. Sunday just in case something happens at he sent over a story about all these tensions in worries on sunday afternoon and that was the last i heard from urban. You couldn't reach him after that now. I tried calling him many times. I sent him messages. I sent in emails and what we learned was that the indian government had shut down all communication from the valley early on sunday night shortly after i had last communicated with our with our colleague so what did you do so so we had no way of communicating with people in the entire kashmir region so we waited knowing that something big was going to happen happen and on monday morning there was an announcement that a speech was going to be made by india's home minister in parliament and and that this would likely explain what was happening to catch mirror so i came into the office early along with some other colleagues. We turned on the t._v. Hello and welcome to register television. You're watching the big picture with me. Frank clubs and parole announcement with massive repercussions genuine tishman bowman. We waiting to hear what what was foot. Jemele and kushtia made a historic a massive day pretty quickly. It was clear that the the government had a very ambitious plan to change the status of kashmir and erase its autonomy that has existed for the decades demoted matron case abuse and the home minister took the floor of the upper house of parliament and began making this presentation about what the government was going to do how it was going to change this constitutional provision and what this means for for india mmediately provoked an hour or on on the floor of the parliament opposition politicians handed going but he just kept going the news landed like a bombshell in india because this is one of the biggest decisions the country has made a vow ruin kashmir or any other state says india was four hundred forty seven <music> <music> from what i can tell out of my window because our house is a little fortified. We have a lot of security like i said there's a deadly calm. The uh-huh actually beautiful. It's a nice sunny bombing morning here. It's about twelve in the afternoon so i wasn't able to reach samir but i was able to find a activists. The daughter of a prominent kashmiri politician who somehow was able to make a foist recording and send it to me to give me an update of what was happening and there's absolutely no movement no hongs a no sounds of cars nothing at all her name is ill to job and a contact of mine had given me her number and i i did some checking to see who was and her mother is a prominent kashmiri politician who had been put on house arrest so from yesterday. They've been a couple of developments. My mother was previously under house arrest but she's been detained now. I don't know if she was detained when i spoke correspondent and yesterday but they've taken her away job was really concerned frightened about what was happening all around for at the moment nonetheless qatar allowed to even step out of the house here. I don't know how much longer are they going to snap internet services and not allow us to make calls or have any sort of access to communication. She felt like this was an assault. On the dignity of cash mary's there's an absolute curtailment of civil lib- civil liberties we have no rights and it feels like kushner has been reduced to an open prison. That's the in theory that people are having a sense of powerlessness that they don't like at all what the government has done but they can't do anything about him. <music> jeffrey orient me a little bit here. What is the story of kashmir. This story is long complicated occurred. In august the fifteenth nine hundred forty seven independence day for india talk to when india was granted independence from great britain from the forty-seven continent of europe becomes to self governing being dominion within the british commonwealth of nations. There was a division and the indian subcontinent between india and pakistan india was the country that was created did for hindus in this part of the world and pakistan was created for muslims them beyond the snow capped himalayas forming a badge wall invaders as kashmir mia kashmir is this absolutely exquisitely beautiful mountain valley between india and pakistan and it has been contested bitterly interlude between those two countries and kashmir at the time was the princely state run by a hindu maharajah to make things even more complicated located. It was majority muslim. Kashmir's population is muslim by the ruling class is hindu and the decision that she made was to not join in india or pakistan and to remain independent but that didn't last very long because just within a couple months of independence in nineteen forty seven militants from pakistan invaded kashmir and the maharaja went running to india for help and india said basically okay we will help you drive these invaders out but part of the deal. Is you have to agree to join the state of india win. The maharaja greeted the indian premier. It became clear to all observers that the proposed plebiscite was as good as and the kashmira would vote to remain within the indian dominion so the maharashtra russia betas decision to do that. The indian army would clear all invaders from this oil home in the western part of the province. Tribesmen are now in full retreat. He put special conditions on his joining india and some of those conditions were granted kashmir special degree of autonomy the area you would still have its own constitution its own prime minister rights to pass its own laws and that was the compromise between the the two sides so kashmir would have its own separate identity but in the late eighties early nineties huge conflict erupted from the people in kashmir ron independence from india they they didn't want to be part indie anymore. Some of it had to do with religion because india's majority hindu kashmir's majority muslim some wanted to join pakistan vistan and pakistan took advantage of this. They sent thousands of militants across the border from pakistan indicators mirror to fight against the indian army army and it turned the place into a bloodbath. Thousands of civilians were killed. Militants fighting soldiers bombs going off all over the place civilians were being dragged into the battle against their will to fight for either the government or for the militancy and the place was just is cast into chaos and bloodshed in turmoil grinding the economy to a halt taking thousands of lives and changing the character of it so it sounds like by not choosing to fully be a part of india or pakistan kashmir becomes a kind of tortured place in between the two. That's tugged at by books. Yeah in kashmir is really express that frustration that they feel like they've been used by both that pakistan was using the kashmiri youth the fight against india and india has turned kashmir into a buffer zone against pakistan stan and the result is this to stagnation and depression villages really run down. You don't see many stores. You see a lot <music> old cars. I've been in places where the moment you drive in your just kind of swarmed by a bunch of curious young wingmen who aren't working you don't hear explosions or gunfire <hes> but but you see just just tons of soldiers careers and paramilitary officers you see lots of sandbags and barbed wire and checkpoints. It feels like an occupied territory and that's another piece of it <hes> these protests. There's there's often protests against the indian rule <hes> in in the towns and the villages. There's it's just a lotta anger there and part of that angers people feel like they're marginalized that they're not taken seriously in india. They don't have any of their own rights. They don't enjoy their own freedoms and that's bread this the small but stubborn militancy that the indian military is able to kind kind of take out these militants one by one but then there's more young guys that wanna join and it just goes on and on so young man in kashgar have become radicalized and militant because of their frustration with being in this position mm-hmm and that fuels the narrative that kashmir is a place that needs to be clamped down on exactly and it's been stuck in that cycle for <music> <music> do <music> and i'm mike norton host of the new podcast talking green. I'm also social psychologist at harvard business school. In this first season of talking green we're going to look at how psychological forces drive attitudes and decisions around money and investing and every episode. I'll be joined by alison schrager an economist and journalist from family to phone addiction. Each episode looks at a topic effect that affects the relationship between our daily lives and our money. This is talking green original podcast from t._d. Ameritrade t- studio at the new york times subscribed talking green now so you don't miss a single episode hi. I'm caitlyn dickerson. I cover immigration for the new york. Times and one person i remember interviewing was a mother named cindy twenty five years years old from honduras and her eight year old son justin when i interviewed her. She was still in federal detention center but she burst into the room with a big smile l. on her face i remember she looked even a little younger than she is. She wore glasses. It's getting jeans on. She and her son were about to be released but when i asked her about what they had been through over the last several months wants her face completely changed. She started to explain to me how they had been separated for fifty days win. Border patrol agents took her away from justin. It was almost almost as if they took his voice he went from being young and bubbly loud kid to someone who rarely ever spoke above a whisper. She's one of several moms who i profiled and you can find a lot of this kind of journalism in the new york times so if you'd like to support it you can go to our website it's n._y. Times dot com slash subscribe jeffrey the situation in kashmir has been deeply unstable now for decades so what changed what finally tipped dipped that brought us to this point. A big piece of this is the rise of narendra modi india's prime minister. He is a hindu nationalist and s. Pushing a a strong nationalist agenda that prioritizes the hindu religion and moti has been talking for years about about reorganizing kashmir and ending this problem once and for all of the militancy and the troubles inside kashmir and now we're trying to bring the majority of stews into the mainstream who have been inspired by phone propaganda under attacking their own nation on he was just reelected few months ago go by an enormous margin that gave them a lot of momentum. There's no alternative to peace and cooperation my advice to youngsters who have chosen a different path off to rejoin the mainstream typified by their own family and parents. Their participation is required in the development of genuine. Catch me so motives. Government came up with this plan dividing kashmir into to federal territories the state of jammu in kashmir it would basically annexed kashmir smear and make it a part of india much more than it's ever been and it would make it easier for indians outside of kashmir to move into the area and changed the demography and that's that's the big fear. This is the first step it's a it's a legal administrative step and the next will be an influx influx of indians that will come cruising into kashmir vineland setting up businesses and soon kashmiris will be minorities and their own homeland the fear and the reality it seems is that india is deliberately swallowing up kashmir not so that it can maintain what it is but so that it can completely turn it into the rest of india that's right and the worry is by swallowing cashmere. That's gonna raise tensions with pakistan. Uh jeffrey if you are indio why not just let kashmir go instead of absorbing it. If this is a majority muslim slim territory that is constantly creating conflict with india why not just kind of cut it loose the great question one reason why it doesn't i wanna do that is the refrain pakistan would move into kashmir and be even closer to new delhi the capital and they'd be able to strike the bean the heartland of india more easily. That's one another reason is that india's a federation of many different diverse territories this and if you've let one spinoff others might soon follow suit and there are independence movements and rebel movements in other parts of india and india's worried that if kashmir breaks off other parts of the country would break off in any tensions between india pakistan kinda hold this whole region intention attention because the two biggest players they fought wars against each other before the have nuclear weapons and they have this religious divide between them. That's very we used to stir up people on either side and so a messy kashmir. It's just a a problem for for a lot of people far away from kashmir so bring us back to monday and the way that things played out india had cut the phones in kashmir. It sounds like that was a way to suppress this militancy militancy and keep people from connecting with each other and organizing against india. What do we know about what's happened in kashmir in the time. Since since so once the announcement was made on the floor of the parliament that this dramatic change is being done to kashmir we realized while the troops have been bussed into the valley in the weeks before why the authorities had cut the internet and separate landline connections. They were worried that once the announcement was made the rabin outburst first violence of protests rioting. Maybe militant attacks and indian government was trying to get ahead of that and just put everything in place to clamp down really hard on kashmir so there could be no a unrest since then. The clampdown has remained really tight. I still can't get in touch with our journalists haven't spoken to him since sunday. The information we have is that kashmir is pretty a quiet. Most people are staying indoors inside. There's a curfew in place. Soldiers are everywhere and the <hes> people there are kind of stunned that this has happened but they're not able to do much because it's basically illegal to move around outside and and another thing that was surprising was how much support modi's decision has received across the political spectrum opposition parties that oppose modi's government on many fronts have backed him on this because kashmir is seen as that nationalistic nationalist stick issue one that stirs up feelings of patriotism. There's fears about pakistan so his decision has been incredibly popular. Just just about all of india has been behind it except kashmir. I'm struck that this popular in so much of india even though india is a democracy democracy and what was done in kashmir could not possibly be less democratic turning off people's phones literally depriving them of the ability to communicate communicate yeah suppressing dissent. It's not allowing any channel of criticism. It is eliminating the voice of kashmir when it's their faith that is being changed so they have no say and what's happened or even allowed to react to it. That bothers some people in india. There's been intellectuals that have been very disturbed and say this is a threat to democracy. It's a threat to india's a secular identity. There's been a legal challenge or in filed in there will probably be others saying that the modi government did not have the constitutional authority to to unilaterally change kashmir status but the majority of indians see kashmir as a trouble zone as a place for pakistan to a battle and they are happy that the government has taken a storm stead on what they could be a solution to the to the conflict jeffrey every as we've been talking so many global conflicts have come to mind china and hong kong china and the warriors as israel and the palestinians russia and crimea could kind of go on. I wonder where you think kashmir fits. Maybe it sounds like just another intractable conflict that people outside of the area just don't really need the care about <hes>. I think it's different in a couple of ways. I think it's an especially difficult conflict to solve because of the issue of religion in history and identity and just the years of bad blood but i also think that unlike these other ones you've mentioned not a lot of people were watching kashmir. It's it's kind of like the forgotten conflict and i think that's one reason why this has happened that india's taking this drastic step because nobody was really paying attention. They just kind of left this to fester. If the world had been so focused on kashmir and end its status you're saying it would have been harder and perhaps less likely for india to have done what it did. I think there would have been more consultation and pressure on india to respect the rights of the people in kashmir speak to them to see what they want and try to come up with a solution that was more consistent with india's democratic values instead this was like a military takeover and those usually don't win hearts and minds jeffrey. Thank you very much or my pleasure. In a speech on thursday india's prime minister narendra modi declared that ending kashmir's smears autonomy was a quote historic decision that would benefit india kashmir and the entire region by eliminating the islamic insurgency. There are your colorado beige book supper. Not a buddha jammu-kashmir mawkish made on la document egg niagara u._k. Should but the decision was met with fury in pakistan which retaliate tallied by halting trade with india and expelling india's top diplomat in a statement pakistan's prime minister accused used india of promoting quote an ideology that puts hindus above all other religions and seeks to establish a state <music> that represses all other religious groups. We'll be right back. Succession is back. The emmy nominated drama returns to h._b._o. Sunday august eleventh picking up where the first season left off with the roy's fighting for control of their empire ryan cox jeremy strong sarah snook kieran culkin allan rock return as the nuclear roy family with matthew mcfadden and nicholas braun reprising their roles. Tom and cousin greg tune in for the show. Critics called deliciously savage and one of the best shows of two thousand eighteen new episodes of succession accession air sundays at nine starting august eleventh only on h._b._o. Daily is made feel welcome. Andy mills lisa toben even lindsay garrison any brown claire tennis scattered cowan michael simon johns brad fischer larussa. Yes anderson wendy door. Chris would jessica cia alexandra. Leah jonathan wolf lisa chow eric kripke mark george luke vander a diese egan kelly prime julia longoria sindhu yana someone jasmine aguilera m._j. Davis lynn and dan powell our theme music is by jim bromberg and ben landsberg of one special. Thanks to sam dulack back michaela bouchard stella tan julia simon some mean an call an archdeacon uh. That's the daily unlikable bar scene monday. Purchasing real estate can be stressful. Luckily there's a network of one point three million realtors ready to use their expertise to help abuse stay centered while they find the perfect home for you so you can sit back. Relax and work on your own <hes> while we find your a dream home that's who we are. Realtors are members of the national association of realtors.
One Country, 2 Presidents: The Crisis in Venezuela
"From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barr. This is the date. Today. A remarkable battle for power is playing out in Venezuela with drooling claims to the president's and talk of a coup Nick ace on the crisis in Caracas. It's Friday January twenty. So on January tenth in Venezuela. Nncholas Maduro put his hand on a book and swore himself in as president for another sixer. Man that was to Politika Bolivarian Thrilla, but I put up with IRA different. They're lying saying at the two weeks later in 'nother part of Caracas on Sunday. Little known wa- maker named one way though stood before a group of people and held a kind of citizens swearing in ceremony. Where he said he was the president of Venezuela. Young and he was prepared to lead the country himself. So two men are declaring themselves the president of one country two president. How is that possible? What has been going on in Venezuela that leads these two men at the exact same time to declare themselves. The rightful leader of the country. Will you have to turn the clock back to last year just before the summer? Official campaigning Venezuela's presidential election has kicked off with huge rallies. By the candidates Madeira was running for reelection. Now, remember he'd been president of this country during this massive disaster in Venezuela. At the beginning of the summer. The consi was collapsing people were losing even more of their savings than they ever had. Hospitals were completely supplies and they had been for years. I was there during that time. I got sick. I got dang gay. And they weren't able to do anything about it. This was the state of the country that has the world's largest proven reserves of oil. It was an all time low and nNcholas Maduro was asking them to give him another six years as the president. And that would seem quite counterintuitive. What was his standing at that moment? How many people blamed him for the situation? Everybody blamed him. You would go around in the neighborhoods in Caracas, and they would point at how skinny they weren't say. This is the consequence of duro diet Madero diet named after the current President Nicolas Maduro, that's what it's called there. When people have lost a bunch of weight a love the past year. Seventy four percent of Venezuela's lost an average of eight point seven kilos in weight is even laughed about that. He says he thinks it's funny. This is a man who's shown very little sympathy for this massive crisis that the country is going through. So you would think under normal circumstances that it would be impossible that this person would be reelected by the country that had been brought down during his first term as president. So then here comes the night of the election and the results come in and Medeiros won Venezuela's President Nicolas Machado has been declared winner of Sunday's election. We won. Again, we were triumphant again, we've overcome all obstacles, we are the strength of history transformed into a popular victory permanent popular victory. He's going to be president for another six years Devaney Venezuelans they found that terribly shocking today the world have the ice here in Venezuela. Venezuelan have at St. today is their own survival ASA democratic nation swell cater ship their world can no longer turn a blind eye to that reality manner in which this election was conducted was under a big cloud, and immediately you see countries outside if Innis Walea condemning what had happened saying the election may have been rigged that they're not going to recognize nNcholas Maduro downsizing his win as a sham Panama Costa Rica, she lay and the US mission to the UN said, they won't recognize the results of the election. You f- resident Trump signing a new executive order this afternoon following the results of that controversial Venezuelan election. The executive order is designed to try and prevent the Venezuelan government from selling off its ask. Sets. If you're in Venezuela. It looks like you're going to have Madero as your president for another six years. They said that you were obliged to vote. They said that people were coerced. It's a lack of respect. Months pass people are generally depressed about where things are going to go in threat this process. People are asking. Where's the opposition? Here. Why are they not protesting where they're not trying to stand up to what's going on or offering alternative? He cracked down on dissenting voices prominent opposition leaders were arrested or put under house arrest. There was very little the opposition left. The version was going through and picking off leader after leader often issuing orders of arrest for them disappear. He'd find them in Columbia, you'd find them in tree lay drags from a car and briefly detained. This is believed to be the moment. Security agents in Venezuela arrested the country's opposition leader Kwame Grado, the leader of the national assembly was opposition was getting spinner and thinner at this point to the point that either you had an arrest warrant against you. Or your thought there might be one soon, and you had many many people politicians and supporters of opposition leaving the country because after the election like that kinda what hope did you have to try to challenge? This guy. Then what happened Madero continued on? And he had his dog uation, which was January tenth. I think he thought everything was going to go very smoothly. He had a big ceremony many of the people that are government attended. And he said restarting another six year term. And it's been the opposition starts to leap into action. Over parliament is now largely toothless its leader. One has vowed to fight back. We reaffirm the illegitimacy of nNcholas Maduro. The opposition had a card up its leaf, which was Venezuelan constitutions. There are articles that they can use. If a president has seized power illegally, and they say that this inauguration that he's done for himself was a seizing of power because he didn't win that election backlash here in this case, this triggers a mechanism and biz well whereby the legislature gets to take control the country and decide who's going to be running in which case it gets to be the president of the national simply who was one way though, the thirty five year old young lawmaker who one had ever heard of one of the last remaining men standing. Your new India? He did something that no one in the opposition had been willing to do which was to take Madero on by saying that he was actually the president of finish Walea which was an extremely anxious move, right? It's really hard to underestimate. How much risk is involved in taking on Madeira this way? Thing they might do. Gwynn's? Some. So beyond invoking obscure rules from the constitution. What is quite does plan for how to execute this and knock out Madero? Why think you saw some of it the day that he inaugurated himself? And this was a really surprising day for everybody that was covering this. He went out he had this big ceremony in just within minutes of him declaring himself the president of Venezuela. You had announcement from the US that they were going to recognize him. Oh, LA, I'm Mike Pence, the vice president of the United States and on behalf of President Donald Trump and all the American people. Let me express the unwavering support of the United States as you the people of Venezuela. Raise your voices in a call for freedom. Nncholas Maduro is a dictator with no legitimate claim to power. He's never won the presidency in a free and fair election. And he's maintained his grip of power by imprisoning. Anyone who dares to oppose? The United States. Join and then you had announcement from Canada that they were going to recognize. So let me say on behalf of Canada that we recognize an express our full support for the intern presidency of Venezuela assumed by the president of the national assembly one go, and then it just became like dominoes. You had Costa Rica Paraguay Argentina? Rumer says allows a Roo in Brazil. Columbia Columbia saying at one white. Oh, come in swell. Companion is due process. Veterans on us cassia. Aasiya, but I can polo and Solano sell UA all of these countries. Suddenly said now we no longer recognized enduro. It's white oh, who's the president of Venezuela? So what you could see was there must have been another part of this plan here, which wasn't just to make this crazy statement that he was the president. But also potentially a back channel of which they had a lot of lined up to go along with this plan when he did it on Wednesday. I have to say that I'm struck that. All these major democracies are backing Guido who is not democratically elected as the leader of. Why exactly are they doing that? Yeah. Well, I'm surprised to frankly govering this, you know, he wasn't elected. And people didn't really know who he was. I think people are still trying to look under the hood of who this man is. So what does it show it shows that the international community has gotten pretty desperate at this point finding any alternative to Madero who's become a dictator swipe think when the Air National countries when Venezuela's neighbors when the US finally saw that there was someone who is finally willing to take him on face to face. They seized the opportunity and it's a big gamble because they're gambling on someone that doesn't really have a long track record along history in Venezuela. Frankly is just beginning to know so countries like the US are not so much supporting quite oh as they are supporting the removal and a substitution. of Madero if Medeiros gone someone's got to be in charge. So if your goal is to get rid of Madero, you're also has to be to say who would be the president. And I think that's largely the reason why why has so much. Backing right now is because he's not Madero. The United States joins with all freedom loving nations in recognizing the nationalist simply as the last vestige of democracy in your country for it's the only body elected by the people as such the United States supports the courageous decision. By one Guadagno, the president of your national assembly to assert that bodies constitutional powers declare Maduro your server and call for the establishment of transitional government on behalf of the American people. We say to all the good people of Venezuela. Stomas status. We are with you. We stand with you. And we will stay with you until democracy is restored. And you reclaim your birthright of Lieber Todd. Mateus Grassi is be vion Conti oes. Right back. This tax season. You don't have to leave your house for professional help. Turbo. Tax live is a new way of doing taxes real CPA's in e as can review your taxes with you on your schedule their on demand. Tax pros have the expertise to ensure you feel a hundred percent confident filing your return. They'll stick with you until all your questions are resolved and find all the deductions that apply to you. See you can maximize your refund. Turbo tax live with CPA's in e as on demand. See details at turbotax dot com. So how does Madero respond to this big international outpouring of support for basically his well, he's through a big tantrum on Wednesday. Leaving mundo. A C then take on people journal. Hicfa starting with the clearing that he was cutting diplomatic ties the US he ordered personnel of the embassy out in seventy two hours. This started kind of a fascinating chain of events where the US said it wasn't going to leave because it recognize one though is the president and way though came out with a statement saying, you're officials are welcome to stay. We're the government, and we would love to have diplomatic relations with continued just as they had before. And how the people of sway responded to this intervention by countries. Like the US. It's been surprising to me. It was surprising to me starting maybe eighteen months ago when I talked to friends and colleagues who are back in Venezuela. And they would ask me what the US was gonna do about this. And my response would always be would you mean what the US is going to do about it? You don't certainly want the US to be involved in this. Do you use has got a long history in Latin America that people don't like I mean, it was the US? Pinochet into power is the US had the coup got rid of our Bengals Mon and got Amal in the nineteen. Fifties was a democratically elected leader US history of interventions has been very checkered. But it is a consequence of this strange situation that Madero has put the country in where unpopular leader who's presiding over a deep collapse in the country won't go won't take the exit. The people actually got the position this isn't everybody invents? But this is a lot of people in Venezuela who are saying why doesn't the US intervene and try to save. And if it's not the US them, why don't our own military do this. I think that's what you actually hear much more on the streets of Venice Williams. How could the military stand by and let this man continue to run the country as he does. And these two things asking for intervention and asking for a military coup are parts of the past the Latin America's been trying to bury for years. So to see them both be part of the landscape again in Venezuela. I find to be a little. Terrifying. Frankly, I met a woman who was protesting in the plaza last year, and she was telling me how much you wanted Donald Trump to intervene. And this shocked me she told me that she'd be happy to see you as tanks circling around Caracas. And I told her do, you know, what this means to have a US invasion of your country. And this girl was nineteen. I don't think she really knew. But you are seeing people that are saying things that you would have thought were preposterous years ago because they've suffered so many years under Madero given the openness because of the situation in Venezuela to countries like the US weighing in does the support and the recognition of all these international powers give the opposition more power as they try to take over. Will. It does doesn't it doesn't symbolically. It's great. They have all this support from outside of Finnish Walea, but what they needed support inside Venezuela with they have now is all the recognition, but they. Have any of the weapons they don't have control over the military. And ultimately, it's the military. That's going to be the arbiter of power in Venezuela in really has been the one that's been holding up Madero. If anything's going to change they have to go from holding up Madero toting up though, ultimately the power at any constitutional democracy is is kind of a magic it's whether people are willing to respect the norms. And when they don't like what's happening in Venezuela. The constitution has kind of melted away. It just comes down to the people that have got the weapons as the ones that can say who's in charge. It's the ones where the weapons that are saying Medeiros in charge. And if that changes, it's probably going to be the same generals for the ones that determined that. He's not does that start to look Nick like a military coup. Backed by the US government it does because you have the US government supporting opposition parties the supporting military intervention by there. Own military against the man, who's running the government each of those links is there, and it would link the US to what happens afterward. You just don't know. When you ask the armed forces to get involved. It's really up to them. What happens next? So it could all go very badly. And then everybody who supported would be implicated, including the US. Potentially. So what exactly is the military way right now knowing that they hold all the power in this equation. So one side the military loose very well under Madero, the top brass the military lift lavish lives this lots of forms of revenue. They have lots of control of the economy. Many top officers are involved in the drug trade smuggling. Even though this big crisis in Venezuela. They're not living it at the top on the other end. They're seeing that this institution which had been beloved by Venice Waylon getting increasingly tarnished for being on the side of Madero. And they're also seeing that so much of the world is now getting behind way though and wondering probably whether Moore is going to be around forever, and what they're going to do after Medeiros gone themselves. So this is kind of dilemma that they're facing who side to get on which side, they think is gonna be right in history, and the given how much time you have. On the ground in Venezuela. I wonder if you have an instinct for which of these will weigh more on the military, and how it will go. We'll I can't say how long it's going to take. But I think that these military officers and rank and file people are looking out their windows every morning, and they're seeing that the crowds are angry. And that they're getting bigger. And the thing to do something about these crowds, and they need to get on the side of them as opposed on the side of single person who's running the country. But I have no idea how they're going to make the decision when. Here's what else you need so much. Fred later today. Thirty four of this partial government shutdown. The Senate will be voting on a proposal to finally ended on Thursday for the first time since the partial government shutdown began the Senate voted onto plans proposed by Republicans and Democrats to reopen the government predators compromise would accomplish three times. I shot down and resumes. Pay for federal workers right away. Second. It's drugs about partisan compromise on the issue of immigration and border security with ideas from both sides and third it provides stable full year funding for the federal government, the Republican Bill which would have funded President Trump's proposed border wall failed by a vote of fifty to forty seven and was supported by a single democrat Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Our proposal allows us to open up the government, and then then after governments open settle our differences over border security, the democratic Bill which would not have funded the wall also failed by a vote of fifty two to forty four. But was supported by half a dozen Republicans, including Senator Susan Collins of Maine Mitt Romney of Utah and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska who defied the president in backing the measure. Chris it is that this government is sucked down over a promise to president United States. Couldn't cape. And then Americans. Keep decides that he was gonna build a medieval walled cross the southern border of Texas. Take it from the farmers and ranchers that were there. Thanks. That's why we're here because he's now saying the taxpayers have to pay work before. And after the votes tempers flared on the Senate floor as lawmakers like Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado express their fury over the length of the shutdown and the absence of serious negotiations to bring it to an end the leash we could do. Reopen our government at stop pursuing the self inflicted harm that it creates hundreds of thousands of federal workers out of work and not being paid not able to support their families. While we continue to stand on this floor having mindless arguments that are to do nothing to advance the future of our country. The daily is produced by feel Lindsey garrison. Rachel Wester any Brown Andy meals, I threes, camaraderie, Claire tennis getter, Michael Simon Johnson. Jessica chump, Alexandra Leon and Jonathan wolf and edited by page. Cowan LaRussa Anderson and Wendy door. Lisa Tobin is our executive producer. Samantha Hennig is editorial director our technical manager. Is Brad Fischer? Our engineer is Chris would. And our theme music is by Jim Bromberg and Ben lands for of wonderful special. Thanks to Samdahl MC, McCabe Usha and Stella town. That's it for the daily. I'm michael. Other than your absolute best friends who could you ask to bring you a breakfast burrito at eight AM and red wine at four pm post mates. Post mates is your personal delivery service all year round. Download the app for free rows, local, restaurants and businesses and track your delivery with twenty five thousand partner merchants post mates can bring you whatever. You're craving within the hour. Download the post meets up and use code the daily to get one hundred dollars of free delivery credit for your first seven days download post mates and use code the daily.
The Standoff With Iran
"From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbaro. This is the day. Today. The Trump administration is debating a military strike against Iraq as tensions between the two countries reach an all time high. How got? It's Friday, June twenty-first. To all tankers have been ambushed in the Gulf of on the US placing the blame firmly on Iran. Iran says it will break the uranium stockpile limit that was set by the twenty fifteen Tehran nuclear deal. Just moments ago, the Pentagon authorizing additional one thousand American troops in the Middle East. People are going to the Middle East right now in response to growing concerns over Iran. President says time is running out for European leaders to say the two thousand fifteen nuclear deal in American drone was shot down in international airspace, by Iranian missile over the stated for moves. So Charlie does this bring us do you think closer to a wider conflict now, do not want a war, but they're ready for one and invading Iranian airspaces? They say was crossing a red line. There's any more disruption shipping and the streets of hormones linked to Iran take out their navy their refineries if there's any more attack on American interest graph to the uranium. So they'll pay pain. Mark. There's been a lot of news coming out of a Ron over the last week or so. And it feels like things have been escalating very fast, and then it all sort of started with those two tankers in the Gulf last Wednesday. Yeah, that's right. Michael, these very dramatic vivid pictures, began circulating of a Japanese and Norwegian tanker adrift in the Gulf of Oman, with huge flames and smoke billowing from their sides. Mark Lander covers the White House for the times. And so your first reaction you see these pictures as my God. You know what does this mean it's true act of hostility, and then the plot, you know, rapidly thickened as the United States accused Iran of being the culprit for these explosions. Good afternoon. It is the assessment of the United States government that the Islamic Republic of Iran, responsible for the attacks that occurred in the Gulf of Amman today. Mike Pompeo took the podium at the State Department, backed by these very dramatic pictures of the burning tankers. And he and essence said that the US had incontrovertible proof that Iran was behind the attack this assessment is based on intelligence. The weapons used the level of expertise needed to execute the operation recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high degree of sophistication and what he produced was military footage that showed a small Ronnie, and boat coming around to the side of one of these stricken, tanker's, and people standing on this little boat, removing what's called a limpet mine, which is a small mine, that had been affixed to the side of the ship. Presumably, this was an unexploded mine. Several of the other minds did explode, which is what caused all the flames and smoke. It's unmistakable what happened here these were. Taxed by Republican Veron on commercial shipping on the freedom of navigation with the clear intent tonight transit through the strait. This was on the Gulf of Oman, much of the world's oil supply passes through the straits of Hormuz. So this is Iran, signalling to the United States, and the world. We can interrupt this critical waterway, we can stop the supply of oil, so on two different levels, both economic, and as an attack on American allies, it was viewed by Pompeii on the administration as a very provocative act, taking a whole these unprovoked attacks present a clear threat, international peace and security of lateness alt- on the freedom of navigation and an unacceptable campaign of escalating tension. But Ron and so what is the response to this accusation from Mike Pompeo? Diva become his this leash uncool. It's my tongue growth minds and also well, interestingly, a lot of skepticism, nor any sinus, I'm blessed factories, who powerful. No Muffin to all those few into the Europeans initially responded by saying it's too soon. We're not sure it's too soon to say, Ron is guilty of this. You heard the misgivings of Germany's foreign minister. What do you make of this video that we've all seen for those handed out by the Pentagon? I don't believe it's the smoking gun. It's a it's not quite clear yet. So to some extent, there was a credibility gap on the part of the United States. The US had presented this footage. And even with this footage as evidence countries were not willing to say you're right Iran was behind it. It's logical if you wish, but we're still missing the said this mocking gun to rebuild, the, the concrete prove the reunions behind the two attacks. And instead. They all held back. They all withheld judgement. It really was a very, very vivid demonstration of how much trust has been lost between the US and its allies, that you didn't see the Germans, the French the Brits immediately step up and say, well, of course, the Iranians did at the US has shown us proof of it. And the idea is that the US might be doing what exactly if you're a skeptic if you're one of our allies in Europe, what would blaming Iran for this accomplish. That makes them so skeptical. I think the really cynical take if you're in Europe is that the Trump administration has been spoiling for a fight with Iranians from the moment. President Trump came into office President Trump announcing that the US is withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal. And in a way, the root of this was laid a year ago when President Trump pulled out of the Iran, nuclear deal for Donald Trump is to reinstate US sanctions on grown. Lifted as part of the twenty fifteen nuclear deal sanctions, that'll be reimposed are the toughest sanctions ever put in place on the Republic of Iran. Their state Mike Pompeo has announced that the US has designating the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terror group will take place on the same list as terror groups. It supports all of which are already designated as foreign terrorist organizations. And pointing the finger at Iran for this provocative, act could give the White House, the pretext for some kind of military response. If you're looking for fight with the Iranians, what better way to precipitate it than to say you guys are responsible for this act, Mark just to clarify one point, assuming Iran did attack tankers. Why would it have done it if the situation is so fragile right now? And the US is looking for amunition, why would Iran suddenly blow up some tankers? What would that accomplish in terms of mood evading? The people who remain in the deal to somehow start acting in Iran's interest. I think because it is such a vivid demonstration of Iran's capacity to disrupt the world's oil supply, it sends this unmistakable message to the Europeans who remain in the nuclear deal that you guys need to team up and figure out how to restrain the United States, how to make the case to Washington, make the case to the Trump administration that they just can't act with impunity toward her on that there is a price for them continuing to squeeze Iran's economy, hurting the Iranian people. The argument here is that the Europeans have to come off the sidelines. They can't just allow Donald Trump to act with complete freedom in this. They have to make their voices heard and try to calm this situation down, and in deal world after these tankers are attacked what do the euro. Qian countries in their leaders do relative to the US that would satisfy Ron goal. I think they would make the case to the United States that look, you know, we know that you hate the Iran nuclear deal. We know your goal is to pressure the Iranian regime, but you can't pressure them to such a degree that they feel compelled to lash out in a way that really threatens not just the security of the Gulf, but the entire world economy because that's the implication, that this single act really had, which is that we can throw the world oil supply into turmoil. That's something that raises the economic cost far beyond the region itself. It turns it into a global economic issue, and that presumably is the case. The Europeans could make to the Trump administration. Where things stand earlier this week, the US has accused Iran of attacking these tankers are Ron has denied it are use thinking at this point. Well, I'm thinking that the tensions are just spiraling up by the day. You're seeing ever stronger words from my compo from the president himself. You're seeing ever stronger denials counter-accusations from the Iranians, you're seeing the president start to take some concrete steps, deploying additional troops to the region. So the question in everyone's mind is, is this merely an exercise in bellicose rhetoric? Is it merely a war of words? Or are we actually on the brink of some kind of military conflict? And I think we got at least an early answer to this on Wednesday night. We'll be right back. At the daily the headline is just the beginning. It's like how it ADP payroll is just the beginning because well ADP as one in six US workers. They also offer industry leading HR, talent time management benefits and more. In fact, whatever it is you and your employees are working for chances are ADP is designing a better way to help you cheat. It ADP always designing for people Andy mills. And I am one of those names that you hear in the increments of the daily every single day I get to work with reporters who are covering things from the conflict in Syria. Enough ghanistan to the fires in California to Fred Trump's taxes to the latest news with Facebook to the Ruhango crisis. None of that, work that I do none of the work that they do would be possible without. Subscribers. And this is an ad trying to tell you that subscribing to the New York Times is worth it. If you are a subscriber, thank you. If you'd like to become a subscriber Goto NY times dot com slash worth. It. So Mark, what happened on Wednesday night, well around seven thirty pm Washington time in the predawn hours in the Persian Gulf. Iran state news agency is reporting the country's revolutionary guard has shot down, what it says is a US drone, Iran fired a surface-to-air missile at an unmanned American surveillance drone. The news was related by state media, which reported the eb on object was a Global Hawk surveillance drone, essentially, blew the drone out of the Scott afternoon. This is Tim general Joseph fossil commander US air forces central command prepared to give a statement, but I won't be answering questions at this time. And this led to an immediate dispute between the Iranians and the United States, where the two sides, disagree is where the germ was flying at the time the American said the drums flying over international waters, and this amounted to a pure act of aggression against an American asset Tehran counters at the drone was destroyed after violated Iranian airspace. Iranians accused drone. On of being over Iranian territory. Iranian reports that this aircraft was shot down over Iran are categorically false. Now, this was as I said an unmanned drone, so there were no American casualties. But it nevertheless elevated this whole conflict to another much more dangerous love. Escalatory attack was responsible possibly endangering innocent civilians. Thank you. So where are we now? What is the current status of things? Go ahead question. Well for starters, President Trump delivered a somewhat confusing statement to reporters at his meeting on Thursday with prime minister Justin Trudeau of Canada. He opened by saying mistake, Iran just made a very bad mistake. And when reporters said, what are you going to do about it? He answered kind of ominously you'll find out you'll find so from that one might judge that we are, in fact, on the brink of some kind of military response. But interestingly, as the reporters kept asking the president questions, you heard a slightly different narrative emerge he went on to say. I don't know. I find it hard to believe. It was intentional. If you wanna know the truth, I think that it could have been somebody who was loose and stupid. He's speaking of Iran's decision to take out the drone, but I have a feeling I may be wrong, and I may be right, but I'm right on that. I have a feeling that it was a mistake made by somebody that shouldn't have been doing what they did. So you almost have this picture of president searching for a way out rather than blame it squarely on the Iranian government. He seems to be letting the government off the hook by saying, well, maybe it was just a, you know, some stupid general or someone who overstep, their thority or who acted recklessly. I would imagine it was a general or somebody that made a mistake in shooting that drone down on the one hand he's speaking in very tough terms. And on the other hand, he's allowing kind of an escape hatch that maybe. This was a mistake on their part and hence not a reason to take the pivotal nextstep some kind of military response. Let's just see what happens just let's see what happens. It's all to work out. And what might that be about this escape hatch, why suddenly be generous toward Iran, while I think this goes to the tension, that has always existed within President Trump. Remember, this is the president who with the North Koreans promised to rain fire and fury down on them. But then open the door to this breakthrough summit with Kim Jong so you have this president who likes tough talk, but does not like being dragged into major military action. And I think with Iran, as with North Korea, you're watching this tension unfold in real time he wants to send an unmistakable message to Iran, but I think he doesn't wanna close off all his options. So he really does have to start some kind of major military operation, but this is something. This is a new wrinkle. This is a new fly in the -ment. What happened shooting down the drone and this country will not stand for that. I can tell you, thank you. Very much. What will does Europe play in this moment, if the purpose of attacking those tankers, and everything that seems to have followed was to draw Europeans out and to get their attention? Will, I think what Europe will try to do is, is say to the president? Look your strategy of pressuring Iran has succeeded, perhaps more than anyone expected. But plunging the Middle East into yet. Another war would be disastrous for the world economy. And I think likewise, they will probably pressure the Iranians and say, look, you can't continue to provoke the US without precipitating. Some kind of response. That's more than you expected, or bargain for you guys need to show restraint too, because if you don't the outcome for you will be far worse than just the economic pain you're suffering today. Mark, how has it succeeded? If we're in this tense moment in what way could we look at this and say that the pressure has succeeded. Well. I when I say, succeeded what I meant was that these sanctions that President Trump imposed we're really designed in some sense to push on to the brink economically but also politically, and I think that Iran's provocations over the past week show, just how far the United States has gone in this. They have truly crippled Iranian economy. They have driven down Iran's oil exports, and they have made Iran's leadership, desperate enough that they feel they have to lash out in this way to try to push back on the American pressure. So from that perspective, this pressure campaign has actually succeeded. The big question is, what is the resolution to all this tension? What is the outcome? That's in the American interest. And that is a far more questionable issue. Right. What happens when Iran actually does get to the brink have is this possibly end? Well, well, I think the big. Question ask about the Trump administration strategy and it's one that the administration itself finds difficult to answer is what's the end game? What is it that you're trying to achieve the administration would say, we want Iran to behave quote, like a normal country will so far everything? The United States has done has only emboldened, Ron to behave even more like a bad actor, even more like a mouse factor in the region. It's in fact, driven Iran in the opposite direction, rather than making a Ron more moderate less inclined intervene in the affairs of countries in the region less of an export or of state sponsor terrorism. It's making Iran and even worse player. And so for the moment at least the end game seems very far off, and we seem to be in the part of the drama where Iran really behaves, even more badly. In other words, it's making wrong more dangerous. Yes. It's bringing out the worst in Iran, right? So I ask again if. Ron his only getting more dangerous and his actions less and less normal. How does it end? Well, well, one way it could end. Well, and President Trump himself has raised this prospect is they come back to the bargaining table. They sit down and go, she ate, what he would claim is a better stronger more airtight, nuclear deal. But that's if you believe that, that is the true objective of American policy. You have around the president a series of advisers, who are plainly more hawkish than he is, whether it's the secretary of state Pompeo, whether it's the national security adviser, John Bolton. These are people who are to some extent itching for some kind of a fight, if the real objective, unstated is collapsing, the Iranian regime, which certainly some in the White House believe then it's hard to see how this ends in anything other than some kind of conflict. Thank you. Thank you very much. Michael. On Thursday night. The times reported that President Trump had approved a series of air strikes against Iran in retaliation for the attack against a US drone, but he then abruptly pulled back on launching the strikes. It was unclear whether the president changed his mind or altered, course because of the gist IX or strategy. The airstrikes could still be launched in the coming days. We'll be right back. Mike, Bloomberg believes, if you can't measure, it, you can't manage it, and it's a belief that drives the work of his foundation. Bloomberg philanthropies follow the data a podcast from Bloomberg. Philanthropies tells the story behind the numbers exploring, how they use data to fight big tobacco. The opioid epidemic gun violence climate change, and even illegal fishing. Join the conversation each episode featuring practitioners and thought leaders from around the world. Subscribe to follow the data wherever you get your podcast. Here's what else you need to know today. I've been on this lower live standing up perforance in Saudi Arabia, which is not always been easy to do, but the days of trading Saudi Arabia the way, I used to treat them or over on Thursday. The Senate voted to block, President Trump from selling billions of dollars of US arms to Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates in my partisan rebuke of the White House. The president has invoked emergency powers to justify the sales without the consent of congress, saying, both countries need the weapons to fight Iran, but on Thursday, senators expressed alarm over the decision to work around them and objected to the countries receiving the arms, especially Saudi Arabia when you have direct evidence. And when you're our own intelligence community has concluded that there is high confidence that. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia. Butchered, a dissident with a bone saw in a consulate in a foreign country. You would think that would give us Paul's as to giving Saudi Arabia, or selling Saudi Arabia more weapons. His expected to pass the scene legislation, but the president has vowed to veto and neither chamber is expected to override it. And we recognized that because of the acts of you and I say a few relative to the total number of officers in the police department that in many ways, you know, we understand how this can tarnish or did tourney reputation Philadelphia police department has pulled seventy two officers from the streets and Saint Louis said, it would no longer prosecute cases from twenty two of its officers after the revelation of bigoted social media posts by the officers, we are equally disgusted by many of the posts that you saw, and that in many cases, the rest of the nation. Saw, not just people, Philadelphia, the social media, posts or compiled by researchers into a database and included racist and Islam phobic material, as well as praise of officers who use excessive force. And so we will not be shy about meeting out the appropriate discipline which. Good range from in many cases a day or so off all the way up to terminate which is probably something that's gonna certainly happen for some of these. The daily is made by feel welcome. Andy mills. Lisa Tobin way chill Wester Lindsey garrison any Brown. Claire, tennis koetter page coward. Michael, Simon Johnson. Brad Fischer LaRussa Anderson, Wendy door. Chris would Jessica Chung Alexandra young Jonathan wolf. Lisa channel, Eric Kripke Mark. George Luke Vander blue a Diese Egan Kelly prime Julia longoria Sindhu, neon someone and jasmine era. Our theme music is by Jim Brun, Berg, and Ben lands for of Wunderle special. Thanks to Samuel MC McCabe. Chard Stella tempt, Julia Simon Anne Kearney and my offer book. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael borrow. See on Monday.
Training a Spotlight on Chiles Miracle
"From The New York Times. I'm Michael Barr. This is daily. Today she weighs free. Market reforms have been celebrated as an economic success story until they weren't the dailies any Brown speech. Hore colleague Amanda Tell about UAE in Chile. Capitalism itself is now on trial now. It's November fifty so Amanda Taube. Let's start back at the beginning of last month. What was going on and she lay? You've also let them be looking with Thomas into lettuce on October sixth. The Chilean the government announced that there was going to be an increase in the fares for the public transportation system. The Metro System on Jakko you Dole Communes Fulton Tila mingle chameleon alcohol. It was thirty pesos. which might not sound like a lot? That's about four cents in. US dollars by it were ordinary Chileans. who were already really struggling to make ends meet? It was just too much to bear soon. After the fair was announced it was actually high school all students in the center of Santiago. I started this kind of civil disobedience. Protest Movement okay. So let me be that Canto model. They started out by jumping turnstiles or holding gates open for people so they could avoid paying the metro fares altogether thanks spread to university students and there are a lot of university students incensio Julia was how large protests in recent years. That part was not surprising but then around the end of the second week of protest things changed and she lay student-led it land protests turned deadly this week week in Chile after violent protests broke out goes to the government nearly twenty people have been killed in the clashes and chilies always Edwards. testers begin to burn metro stations. Subways buses this and high rise. Buildings were set on fire. They did what some have estimated to be billions of dollars of damage to the metric system in Santiago the demonstrations of closed schools shutdown transportation and caused several stores and businesses. That suddenly there was just this general sense that things were completely out of control and really dangerous. Amanda what is driving these protests because it seems like the magnitude of them no longer matches the thing they were originally about which was dis- thirty peso fare hike so the problem is not the amount of money itself self necessarily but the feeling that they already really needed help from the government and instead of getting it here they were being squeezed we est further. Something that I've heard a lot as I cover protests and revolutions around the world is that they're often sparked by a small the increase in the price of daily necessities so food public transportation. The price of gas is often a big one. Something like an increase. Recent subway fares. If you're already really worried about basic necessities and then you have to pay that multiple times a day. It makes just feel inescapable so the fact that people title in Chile are upset about the subway fare. The small increase in the subway fare is really a marker a sign that there's something much deeper happening in Chile right. It's become sort of the crucial piece of evidence for a lot of people that the government is working for them that it's not aware of their lives and it's not trying trying to solve problems for ordinary people. And on top of that there was a series of scandals involving either corruption or tax evasion and by wealthy and powerful Chileans and that created this growing anger and a sense that the entire system might be illegitimate intimate that it wasn't just about distribution of money but about fundamental fairness and who the government was working for and who was taking it for granted. And what does the government do. We wouldn't have thought of this. The government did a few things. The Chilean President Sebastian Kenya. He said AH battle if this is a state of emergency now almost did a soccer mitch and then Pineyro Pineyro announced that they would cancel the subway fare increase but then when that didn't didn't quell the protests he said and get we're at war and what people heard when he said that was essentially that his government considered itself itself at war with the Chilean people who were protesting in the street and then he called the military to restore order and what that looked like was tanks rolling rolling down streets in the capital of Chilean Santiago military forces coming out fully armed and joining the police who were already in body armor already driving around in armored vehicles. And so you had all of a sudden these these images of tanks facing down Chilean college students in the streets and groups of protesters waving signs calling for political change and for a lot of Julian's particularly the ones who had lived through dictatorship Suddenly this incredibly traumatic moment of Chilean history seemed to be recurring. So walk me through that history. Where does it start? So that story really begins in nineteen seventy. When Salvador Allende who was a socialist was was elected president but because it was nineteen seventy and it was the Cold War? The United States was pursuing a policy of opposing socialism awesome and communism around the world distressed the plight of the Chilean people and the failure video of the government. They were very much opposed title. To his government. Government policies have failed the Marxist theory does not work among a free people and so even though he was democratically elected the United States backed a coup by the military removed him from office and installed a military attorney government led by General Gustavo Kenosha in his place on lacquer lacquer. And what happens when this new american-backed leader Pinochet takes over on the initial days of the military regime were incredibly brutal. In a timely were there between four and five hundred people were shot by firing squad in groups of ten to thirty three. They rounded up activists anyone who is seen as a leftist a potential agitator a potential threat to the military's control and power. Thirty three was the largest group that was led out to be shot inside the stadium. They were arrested and imprisoned in the National Stadium which gives you a sense of the scale of these roundups that it was a stadium full of protesters there beating people physically to death to get information or because there's they don't like him on one of them? We saw the most famous of them was a man called Victor Hara who was a musician but he was really more of a national cultural figure. Who for a lot of people embodied Chilean identity and yet one popular song called El Dorado debuted beer and passed which means the right to live in peace? He was arrested tortured orchard by the military the crushed his hands and then mocked him saying tried to play the guitar. Now then they killed him his body. It was riddled with bullets and then dumped a few days later in a poor neighborhood on the edge of Santiago just left on the side of the road named Victor Hara I think became symbolic for a lot of Chileans of the brutality of the military regime into the Ben And how does the US respond to this given that it had a hand in the rise of this dictator. This was the Cold War and this was one part of their Cold War foreign policy away to protect what they saw as US interests against against the potential rise of communism around the world and the United States recognize Pinochet as the legitimate government of Chile and was very supportive of his regime. So for the United States this was an opportunity to pursue a goal that many in the US government Vermont had had for a long time which was to get Chile to adopt more free markets economically conservative policies. And they had been pursuing this for a while through this program that was almost like an exchange program where they encouraged sometimes he'd for Chileans to come to the United States to study economics at the University of Chicago. The question is which system has the greatest chance for enabling poor people to improve their lot led by Milton Friedman who was the kind of most famous thinker of the movement at the time on there the evidence of history speaks with a single voice the freer the system. The better off the ordinary poor people have been and the group of Chilean Chilean economists. who had come to the? US to study as the US had hoped they went back to Chile brought their policies with them and tried to influence the government's economic policies. They started to be called the Chicago. Boys they were known for having adopted this really kind of Lazy Fair Extreme Free Market in view of how things ought to work and once Pinochet took over their policies became the foundation of economic plans that he pursued. That is why. The operation of the free market is so essential not only to promote productive efficiency but even more to foster harmony harmony and peace among the peoples of the world. We'll be right back. The daily is supported by net flicks presenting the Irishman from Academy Award winner. Martin Scorsese a saga of organized. Crime in postwar America told through the eyes of Frank Sharon and spans decades and chronicles one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in American history. The disappearance of Legendary Union boss. Jimmy Hoffa rolling stone calls it an epic masterpiece Masterpiece Academy Award Winners Robert Deniro Al Pacino and Joe Patchy Star. The Irishman now playing in theaters available in afflicts November twenty seventh. Hi I'm Scott I'm Vaughn and we make all the videos over at NYC. Cooking thanksgiving is coming up and it is the biggest day of the year for us at NYC cooking this year we set out with cameras is to record. Our columnist Allison Roman as she cooked Thanksgiving meal for ten of her closest friends. I'm making a regular size Thanksgiving in a very small kitchen. She treats Thanksgiving like a party. She doesn't set her table. Defrost my Turkey on a sheet. Pant in my bathtub. Her drinks are served also in the bathtub. She makes the menu that she wants wants to make. I don't have potatoes menu because you and I don't like sweet potatoes and if you don't want sweet potatoes on your menu you don't need to put sweet potatoes on your menu at MIT cooking. We want out to provide that inspiration for you to build your own menu. Shape it to your taste your cooking level and your ambition so just head on over to N. Y.. T. COOKING DOT com slash Thanksgiving and get inspired. She's coming out boy feel like I'm having a baby obviously never had a baby. I know this is not as hard as having a baby. ooh And what exactly were those economic policies that the Chicago boys were finally able to implement under Pinochet Jay so they were really the basket policies that we now know as neoliberalism. The idea was that the government was supposed to get out of the way of the free market so oh state-owned enterprises were privatized. Pension system was privatized. The education system was partially privatized. There was a real reduction in in regulations cuts in taxes it was essentially the remaking of the economy along the lines that the most influential free market economists had imagined in their research at the time. So this is a kind of extreme version of a free market economy where you remove social safety nets and allowed the market to take control exactly and these ideas were pretty prominent in a lot of parts of the world at the time Margaret Thatcher was influenced inspire them in the UK. Ronald Reagan the United States. But they didn't go. Nearly as far in implementing them the United States still had social security. The U K. You still had the national health system but in Chile instead of incremental changes are incremental reforms. They really kind of went for it. And in one thousand nine hundred eighty they wrote and imposed a new constitution and these ideas were really interwoven throughout the constitution in order to kind of lock in these reforms. And what effect do these policies have. Do they do what the Chilean government had hoped they would do. In many ways yes. Inflation was down. The economy grew and Chile became a richer country than its neighbors in Latin America. And many people saw this as as Juliet by all odds the best success story in Latin America Today Best Success Story a Latin America. They called it. The miracle of Chile Milton. Friedman was very proud of it more than willing to share in the credit for the extraordinary job that our students did down there and these policies let's see state. They were maintained by the subsequent Democratic governments. Even those that were sent her left so from the outside Chile looked looked like the Chilean miracle was continuing but it turned out that four Chileans all of that economic growth came with an asterisk and end. That Astra's was that as the years went on. It was true that the country's economy was growing but a lot of those gains accruing to the very rich middle-class lands porch lands. Were not seeing their lives improve and in fact the country's weak social safety net was making that even more difficult. So for instance instance the retirement plan after it was privatized. It took a long time before the first generation to participate in that plan started retiring in large numbers burgers and when they did in the last few years it became clear that the consequences of this plan were poverty for for a lot of chew as elderly. And I mean that in the most literal technical sense. The median payment under the private pension program is less than the poverty line for or one person in Chile that means that fifty percent of people are at that or less and the minimum payment the payment that the government will guarantee not as long as you have paid into the system for twenty years which is a big if is even lower works out to about one hundred thirty. US dollars a month which is just not enough money to get you very far in Chile. So this idea that by privatizing these systems you're letting the market take care of what the government cannot that has really not panned out. That's right and so. When the current President Sebastian Theon Pierra who has continued to really embrace these right wing? Neoliberal economic policies announced that they were raising the metro fares. I by thirty pesos. Four cents that felt to a lot of people like the final Straw. The last thing that it just confirmed to them that the government didn't have their interests at heart. It might have stopped there. You had the president not taken the step of calling the military out into the streets because that was what really confirmed for a lot of Chileans that as a common chant and you know slogan of the protests said. It's not thirty pesos. It's thirty years that made a lot of people feel like they were not just protesting the metro hike. They were not protesting the specifics of retirement policy. They were protesting thirty years in which they felt that they had still been kind of trapped under the shadow of the dictatorship because its policies policies. Were still reaching out and affecting their lives so I flew to Santiago to find out how much do people really think they are out there. Because of thirty years of economic policy and the legacy of the dictatorship when I got to did she lay and was reporting on the ground. Something that was immediately striking to me was how it was just everywhere. The legacy of dictatorship was not subtext. Texts literally texted we're not everyone grimacing those who are dead scrawled graffiti on buildings and written on protesters signs and on their t shirts with pictures of Victor Hara and quotes from his songs ritual within plus plus the Torah. This was something that people very consciously and dairy directly connected to the legacy of the Pinochet Regime God is spent a few days just going to his many protests events in many parts of Santiago as I could and throughout all of the protests that attended really they were talking about the changes that they wanted to see including the changes to the constitution solution which was just this remarkable and extremely unusual scene to see regular people. They brought their dogs. They brought their toddlers. They were sitting on the floor or somewhere eating snacks. Having a very serious conversation about what elements of the constitution would need to be changed the mechanism that should be. I used to change it. And what would make it legitimate. And how possible would it be for Chile to rewrite its constitution. How much is this? Just a pipe dream of these protests. It's seeming more possible than ever so President Pinera in the last couple of days has said that he would be willing to start the process of coming up with a new constitution but that hasn't satisfied the protesters because one core demand that they have love. Is that the constitution come from civil society groups and individuals and regular people rather than just the politicians and then president Pinera has said that he wants Congress to be the ones to come up with a new constitution so that people are saying we want to be involved in this rewriting of the constitution that does actually leftover from the dictatorship and the president saying okay. Yeah we'll rewrite the constitution but you can't be involved and they're saying that they think that that the government institutions don't have enough legitimacy to be the ones to come up with the new constitution that if they do it that won't solve the problem of its illegitimacy in there. Is I think the broader context here that that we really need to pay attention to is that she lays system was essentially an expert from the United States. These were ideas that were embraced raced in the US. So much that our government encouraged and exported them all over the world and she lay took those ideas and ran with them. mm-hmm in some ways it worked but now decades later for starting to see the results of that experiment. So what's happening. In Chile goes to the question. The countries all over the world are asking which is basically it's more capitalism always better better or is there a point when capitalism goes too far and what's happening in Chile is one answer to that question. Amanda thank you so much. Thank you Did yet Ningbo so Joe In in the real real the leading reseller for authenticated luxury consignment consign. Men's and women's luxury fashion fine jewelry watches art art and home. The real real makes it easy. With our free white glove service in store dropoff or from home shipping think sustainably consign with the real real today and earn up to eighty five percents commission. This month received site credit when you consign ten more items authentic sustainable luxury only at the real real dot dot com. Here's what else you need to nerdy on investigation front yesterday. It was very somber prayer. Four day I thought it was a successful day from truth. Truth coming from the president's men people he appointed during a news conference in the capital House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi said that the first two witnesses to testify in the impeachment inquiry George. Ken and Bill Taylor had quote corroborated corroborated evidence of bribery by president trump. Here the bribe is to grant or withhold military assistance in return for a public statement of fake investigation into the elections. That's that's bribery. Democrats are eager to establish that the president committed bribery. An impeachable offense that is specifically mentioned in the constitution. But I am saying that that what is the president has admitted to and says it's perfect. I said it's perfectly wrong. It's fiber for the next few weeks. We'll be covering the latest developments in the impeachment inquiry in our new podcast. It's called the latest you can hear these episodes at the end of the day right here on the daily or subscribe to the latest. Wherever you listen the daily is made need I feel Belco? Andy Mills Lisa. Tobin we Wester Lindsey Garrison Andy Brown Claire Tennis Scattered Page Coward Circle Simon Johnson. Brad Fisher the research Anderson. Wendy Door Chris Would Jessica Alexandra Young Jonathan Wolf Lisa Chow Eric. Kripke Mark George Luke. Vander blue a decent Egan Kelly. Julia Longoria MM Sindhu neon someone dumb Jasmine Aguilera. MJ Davis Lynn. Austin Mitchell Monica. F Steven Sayer Veto Nina Talk. 'n Dan Powell. Our theme music is by Jim. Bromberg and Ben Landsberg of Wunderle special. Thanks to Sam Domec Makila Bouchard Julius Simon Stella Tan Lauren Jackson and Bianca gave her. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Barr Laura. See One Monday. We all have goals especially career goals like enhancing in diversifying our skills or tapping into a broader network of opportunity the Cornell Executive Mba is designed with Ivy me league prestige for goal achievers from any industry by advancing your career without interruption by providing global perspectives and intimate classroom settings by challenging informing connecting and propelling. You achieve your goals with Cornell executive M._B._A.. On the weekend and close to home searched my cornell e N._B._A.. To Start Your journey.
Russias Mystery Missile
"From the new york times i'm michael barr. This is the today the mysterious explosion of a russian missile has left an entire team of scientists dead david sankara on what that means games for an arms race between the united states and russia that both sides seem to walk. It's friday august sixteenth david. Tell me what happened last thursday in russia well if you're in moscow michael and you were watching t._v. All of a sudden your screen went blue and there was a big star that appeared on a blue background around there was wording up. They're basically telling people to take cover. It said you what union even shocking in a strong wind is expected. Take cover in a capitol building. Do not shelter or park under trees or rickety structures be be careful so this is a storm warning yeah. It's a storm warning. The oddity is there was no storm meanwhile. If you were up in northern russia up near the white sea this is the part of russia that sort of closest to finland and you were looking on the website of one of the local cities cities you saw an indication of a big surge a brief surge in the afternoon in radiation levels this this obviously what a lotta people be concerned and there were announcements and there was actually a rush to buy i a- dine because if you remember back to the old cold war days people used to stockpile iodine to keep their thyroid from absorbing radiation causing thyroid cancer then a few hours later that warning just disappeared from the city website so this is sounding kind mysterious it sounding kind of serious and really really ominous and all of a sudden there was pressure underway for either local officials officials or the russian government to begin to offer some answers about what was going on now what everybody knew new near this northern russian town was that there's a big missile test site nearby and the first explanation that the russians gave was does that there had been an accident with a liquid fueled missile. The problem with that explanation is most liquid fuel. Oh missiles don't produce any radiation <hes> so that didn't make sense and then another statement came out that said that actually what happened was is an explosion of an isotope power source for a liquid fueled rocket well that was the first admission by by the russian government that something involving a radiological event had taken place because isotope suggest radiation but of course the russians weren't coming clean about exactly what it was. They didn't say nuclear. They didn't say atomic. They didn't say accident. They simply said something went wrong with an isotope power supply and that really got people nervous yeah so what actually happened well as we try to piece it together. We got a picture of the russians testing an entirely a new kind of nuclear missile one that uses a small nuclear reactor to propel it and that in the course of the testing testing something went wrong with the nuclear reactor and over the course of a day or so we learned that seven people died the the reactor it actually exploded after it was recovered from the sea and that this had turned into a much larger disaster than the russians had ever publicly admitted but even i thought that russia and the u._s. don't test nuclear weapons haven't tested them for years. So how how do you explain that well. You're exactly right michael the u._s. In russia haven't tested any nuclear weapons for more than twenty years but understand what's happening happening here. You have to go back to twenty eighteen but she was a witness to the word in you know yet digital when vladimir putin gave his his state of the union address but he did this one with lots of animation had big screen behind him and he showed images of three new nuclear delivery systems that russia was developing. Maybe speech should premium down really was up son of autocorrect specials and when you watch the animation it was incredible and scary and maybe part fantasy but here's what he showed consume media missed field witnesses. During one of the weapons was an undersea autonomous it drawn basically imagine an autonomous torpedo with a nuclear weapon screwed into the nose cone comb and it was quickly dubbed the poseidon and the idea was that russia could have it cruising around in the the ocean and if there was ever a nuclear exchange and even if moscow was destroyed and all the nuclear commanders were knocked out out or killed this drone would have built in instructions to head to the west coast of the united states undersea where american missile defenses could never get at it so that was one that was the real doomsday machine was more than a steady get. The settlement is an educated novitiate but he really did the to the second one that you need cuddled kick. You just like polluters to renew your pretty serious to me was a missile that would move at mach mach five. That's five times the speed of sound and would never really manage to go very high up into outer space so so that the missile itself again would avoid missile defenses which usually are designed to find predictable ark for an incoming intercontinental title ballistic missile and destroy outer space and then the third missile over the kitchen corrosion qatari web she needs these points with three three unix was basically a cruise missile which nato called sky fall and ah yes before you ask me michael that is the title of a james bond movie but a cruise missile goes in a zigzag direction direction they can reverse itself it can go around mountains can hug will land and again it defeats missile defenses because the missile defenses can't even see see it in fact radar may not pick up cruise missile if it's down low enough but was really strange about this last missile was that it was supposed host to be powered by a small nuclear reactor the nuclear reactor at the back the missile meant that it could reach any corner of the world because a nuclear reactor actor can run four weeks months. Maybe even years so basically the fuel is limitless and the range of the missile was limitless the science fiction. You know what it's like. It's like doctor. After strangelove goodell nigger engineer olga the so is that the weapon that we think might have exploded on thursday night that third kinda a weapon that putin outlined during the speech in two thousand eighteen exactly and clearly david letterman putin is not trying to hide the fact that russia is working on these pretty stunning weapons. I mean in this speech. He's actively broadcasting to the world that he is is working on developing these oh he's not hiding thing. I mean quite the opposite. It really does show you what the nature of the new arms race is and how how it's different from what went before back in the sixties and seventies the americans and the russians would try to hide their developments from each other eventually of course some of them came out but what putin wanted to do was announced to the public. We're back and in fact remember. He announced this in two thousand eighteen just before a major ager russian election and he was basically saying you know we are going to restore the power of the old soviet union. You respected the old soviet the union because it had nuclear weapons and now having revised conventional military putin saying i'm reviving our nuclear force and finding a way to evade all of those anti missile systems at the americans have spent three hundred billion dollars building over the past thirty years so how does the united states react to that disclosure of these new weapons plans by russia are longtime adversary well. The reactions were mixed michael. There was obviously a group. It was pretty freaked out because you know not a whole lot has changed nuclear technology since the fall of the berlin wall all and suddenly here with the russians announcing a whole new set of weapons then there was a group saying in good luck with that reactor thing from then there was a third group that was actually pretty gleeful about the entire thing gleeful gleeful michael because there's a group inside the pentagon certainly among many conservatives in the arms world who believe the united states has underinvested in its nuclear weapons over the past ten to fifteen years and here all the sudden was the justification for what they've long argued for which is a renewal of the american can nuclear arsenal so they actually see this some of them in the united states as an opportunity to do something that they've wanted to do for a long time but but have felt that they couldn't michael there are two arguments for building up a nuclear arsenal one. Is you go to congress and you say his new technology around. We should really do this that may not convince very many people and certainly isn't going to convince many of the democrats the other way to go at it is is to say we're falling behind and if we don't invest to were really going to find that we've got an old system that can't defend end against a new class of nuclear weapons and with putin speech they have what looks like a very legitimate argument that the u._s. could be falling behind absolutely and that's the argument that was working buried in that more than seven hundred billion dollar defense budget that president trump is push pushed through is a lot of new money for new nuclear weapons hypersonic missiles all kinds of weaponry that many the in the pentagon and many defense contractors have been dreaming about for a decade or two but now they're getting to experiment with <music> <music> <music>. Uh at delta we fly to three hundred cities around the world. That's three hundred city. City is where everyone does the same things you do. That's three hundred cities where the people in those three hundred cities think. They're the only ones who know about that. One place three hundred cities where people miss someone in one other two hundred nine thousand nine hundred eighty three hundred cities where people sing in the car or in the shower or both poorly delta isn't flying three hundred cities merely to bring us together but to show us. We're not that far apart in the first place. Delta keep climbing. I'm john pappas. I'm the director of this week's episode episode of the weekly a new t._v. Show from the new york times this week's episode looks at the opioid crisis told from the perspective of berry meyer veteran new york times reporter. He got this confidential document from the justice department what berry discovered when he got this document. Was that the executives at purdue pharma. The company company that makes oxycontin could've face prison time but they didn't because prosecutors essentially cut a deal it was a joke when a company saying i committed a felony the only act by lying to doctors about the abuse potential and people are dying because of my lies there is no justification for which shouldn't prosecute those individuals none so if you want to hear a story about the opioid crisis that you haven't heard before check out this week's episode of of the weekly it's on sunday night on facts and streaming on hulu the next day with this david you're describing two adversaries who are seeing opportunities to build up their nuclear program but my sense is that both countries operate under this massive massive structure of nuclear trees that mean that neither can do any of the things that you're describing so how does that work well michael the treaties that were signed over the course of decades between russia and the united states have begun fritter away some of expired president president trump since he came in made it clear he wanted to get out of at least one intermediate nuclear forces treaty you have to have everybody adhere to it and you have a certain side that almost pretend that doesn't exist which he said the russians were violating and they were we can't be put at the disadvantage of going going by a treaty limiting what we do when somebody else doesn't go by that treaty and that happened just a few weeks ago. The united states taking a stand hand against russia with the u._s. Ended it. The u._s. is pulling out of a decades long nuclear treaty with russia sparking fears of a new arms race. We thought was confined. Find to the cold war and now there's a question about whether the one remaining treaty between the united states and russia's called new start and and which limits the number of intercontinental nuclear weapons leave and be renewed when it expires in february twenty twenty one just a month after the next presidential actual inauguration so this whole structure that's been built up over the past twenty or thirty years to limit both sides and what they can build that is all crumbling and meanwhile new technologies are coming up with new kinds of weapons that aren't even covered by the treaties anyway and that's exactly ackley what both putin and president trump or experimenting with david from everything you're saying both the u._s. and russia are simultaneously casting costing off this history of denuclearization treaties that limited the size of our arsenals and we're focused on having less not more so why are we both seeming to reverse course here. Let's exactly right because the old thing was that these nuclear arms limitation treaties treaties actually created security by reducing the number of nuclear weapons in the world. The new thing is that these treaties are actually constraining the united states and russia from adopting new technologies each one of them watts <hes> putin wants them because he wants to avoid american missile defenses and he thinks his old old weapons won't do that. Donald trump wants them because he believes that there are a whole new group of nuclear actors coming in led by china and he he doesn't want to be limited by his old outdated treaties with russia that prohibited from building weapons that might counter new competitors so without anyone really announcing it the u._s. has entered a new nuclear arms race primarily with russia but also with china and and a host of other growing nuclear powers that's exactly right but it's different than the old arms race. The old arms race was mostly about sheer numbers numbers. It was about overwhelming the enemy. The new arms race is all about high technology but david this russian test on thursday night over the white see it sounds like a spectacular failure for putin and for russia so what does that mean for the state of the nuclear arms race between the u._s. and russia. It's a really good question michael because we really don't know in one way to think about it is that the russians aren't succeeding at their grandiose dreams and everybody can breathe a sigh of relief and we can slow down on this arms race i. I don't think that's where the trump administration is going to come out. I think that what you're already beginning to here. Is this public embarrassment. The explosion that killed the scientists and leaked out is only going to drive president putin to invest more and even if his his dreams of a nuclear propelled missile fail he will find other ways to come up with weapons that evade american defenses and that have new ways of reaching the u._s. just to establish did he's a power to be reckoned with and so if anything i think this this sky fall incident could end up speeding up the arms race on both sides the russians will want to show that they're not going to be defeated that they're they're gonna pick themselves up and build something better and the americans are going to say see the russians are experimenting with all this new technology even if they fail getting the chinese will get there so we better speed up to <hes> to both sides have real incentives to be in his arms race to stay in this the arms race and would look and feel like major setbacks aren't really setbacks at all. They just keep everybody invested in the arms race. I i think that's right now. If you listen to president trump and sometimes if you listened to president putin why you here is you know this. This is a reason that we need a whole new type of comprehensive arms control and president trump is said even in the past few weeks. I want new agreements that encompass all nuclear weapons intercontinental intermediate range these new technologies and i wanna wrap it all altogether and putin various moments is indicated. He might be interested in doing the same thing but the fact the matter is we are nearly three three years into the trump administration and they have not sat down once over negotiating a new arms control regime so it's hard imagine between now and the american presidential election that donald trump is going to try to sit down and work out with putin an entirely a new arms control agreement and frankly given what's in the air about the odd relationship between president trump and putin. I'm not sure that you could even get. It's such a treaty through even if they negotiated one. It sounds like there's a greater likelihood of both countries ramping up nuclear arsenals else than there is of both countries sitting down and signing a nuclear treaty and i wonder if that means we're going to be seeing more incidents -tendance like what just happened in northern russia with this exploding this all i think that's entirely possible michael that the history the <hes> of nuclear arms races is that if both sides aren't talking to each other than each side builds up in part so that they have them and and in part so they have something to trade away if they do get into a negotiation and that may be exactly what's going on here of course at a moment when we're seeing nuclear clear proliferation that we're worrying about around the world that the north koreans are building up their nuclear arsenal the iranians building up their nuclear arsenal. It doesn't set a really great example example to have the two largest nuclear powers to countries that together have more than ninety percent of all the nuclear weapons in the world build build even more and of course that could mean more russian community is suddenly exposed to radiation spikes and government attempts to hide that so i wonder how people in russia are feeling in the days since this accident or michael. We've been trying to figure it out. To of course the russians aren't exactly eager to let western reporters into some of these towns but from what we can pick up people are anxious. They're angry and they feel lied to. There's a reason they should feel you lied to because the russian government to this day has not said this was a missile test involving a nuclear reactor that went wrong than sort of laid all the little elements out. There're not put it all together and for russians who really wanted to try to get an understanding of what went on they had to be reading western news reports and you know this is sort of created a post traumatic stress syndrome for russians who remember this from their past there were past accidents missile missile accidents and of course nuclear accidents up to and including chernobyl which was on a far larger scale than what we're seeing in recent days where the government lied to people and they were exposed and of course many thousands died so there is a sort of the old cold war is back and so are the anxieties that came with it speaking of distrust whatever ever happened to that emergency weather report that played across so many television screens on the night of this accident did the government ever acknowledge acknowledge what that was you know michael. We still don't know i mean they said it was a malfunction but i'm not sure any russians really believed up even if they're right even if it wasn't malfunction even the weather report was really about the weather and not about a nuclear accident and it tells you something about the depth of distrust in russia and around the world for governments say about their nuclear tests and their nuclear arsenals. Thank you thank you in order back at delta. We fly to three hundred cities. That's three hundred cities where people singing in the car poorly three hundred cities where people miss someone in one of our other two hundred ninety nine cities. We don't fly to three hundred cities merely to bring us together but to show us. We're not that far apart delta. Keep climbing <music> yours what else you need. Ten on thursday israel israel barred to democratic congresswoman were she to leave of michigan and ilhan omar of minnesota who had planned to visit the country this week and hours after president trump had urged israel to block it was an extraordinary effort by the president to use a foreign allied to to punish his domestic opponents. Booth congresswoman are vocal critics of trump advocates for palestinians and supporters of a campaign gene to boycott israel over its treatment of palestinians in a stephen representative. Omar called the ban a quote insult to to democratic values. The daily is made by feel welcome. Andy mills lease the tobin way joke wester mr lindsey garrison any brennan claire tennis scatter page count michael simon johns brad fischer larussa andrew wendy door chris would jessica chump alexandra jonathan wolf lisa champ eric kripke more george luke vanderloop a diese iga kelly prom julia longoria sindhu miana someone jasmine aguilera nj davis slim and dan powell our theme music is by jim bloomberg and ben landscape of wonderful special thanks to send old michaela gusau dr stella julia simon and jim chow. Oh and that's the daily. I'm mike sugerman at delta. We fly to three hundred cities. That's three hundred cities where people singing in the car poorly three hundred cities where people miss someone in one of our other two hundred ninety nine cities. We don't fly to three hundred cities merely to bring us together but to show us. We're not that far apart. Delta keep climbing.
A Secret Dossier in Venezuela
"From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbaro. This is the daily. Today. For weeks after mass protests and international pressure failed to unseat Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, it became clear that it would take defections from within his own regime to remove him from power. Now secret documents leaked to my colleague, Nick ace suggest that people around Madero are starting to turn on. It's Friday may third. Nick, what happened at the beginning of this week in Venezuela. It's around sunrise, Tuesday morning and Venezuelans wake up to this video which is suddenly appeared. We went and it's one way though. Lucho at siempre in gynecology to why those the leader of the national simply they're very used to seeing him. He's been saying that he is the legitimate president of Venezuela for months and that he's going to topple nNcholas Maduro. In medical the gym. But he hasn't been able to do that. So far. Except in this video suddenly things look different. He's standing on a military base. Melia mealy Dada. He's got national guardsmen standing behind him. And he's saying the moment has come and women. Our this is it everybody is going to start to rebel right now. These men behind me or on my side. And it's only a matter of time till the rest of the country is going to be as well come out to the streets come out and join us the moment is at hand. Duda Jaeger Venezuela. And then when you look behind him in the video there's another man everybody in Venezuela recognizes the hasn't seen in a while. It's they uphold a Lopez who is a political prisoner the most famous political prisoner in the country who's been sentenced to almost fourteen year jail sentence, but he's not in his house arrest. He's behind one way, though, he's with these military men and all of them are saying the time has come. This is the juncture get ready. This'll ended by leeann own behaving too young. I'm with Abraham he's been asking for the military to get on his side to push Madurai out for months at this point. But there now military that are behind him. And it looks like they're on his side has message now is we've got these guys here. There's a few of you left. Get on our side. We're going to do all this today. Say if you do young impasse. Oh. Domino's. Whether in his Wailer and potentially it sounds like by the end of the day Medeiros, not going to be in power. Alive. Nick, what does the scene signal to you? It seems there's just suddenly a big blast of hope for the opposition has been looking for some moment. Like this to say that they're going to get the upper hand in this months long battle against Madero. And this is also ricocheting out to Washington, we see this now is essentially desposited moment in the efforts at the Venezuelan April to regain their freedom, which we fully support. I got a call really early in the morning from someone over there saying that they had heard the supreme court Justice was going to sign a memo saying that quite oh was the president. And the defense minister was going to suddenly defect from Madero. And then also there's this rumors starting to circulate around DC that Madero is Jennings. A jet to get out of the country while luring Calvin we're just now learning secretary of state. Mike palm peyot says he believed early this morning that nickel. Madora was actually ready to flee Venezuela. He had a plane ready on the tarmac. Apparently, he was headed to Vanik Cuba. But Mike Pompeo is telling us that he believes the Russians talked him out of it also. So I'm looking at this still in my bed at this point. And it all looks a little too good to be true for the opposition, the people they're talking about defecting have been loyalists for longtime, and if you look closely at this video, you can't even see how many soldiers are actually standing behind him. There's no one from the top ranks of the military. That's there. So it's clears it's going to be a long day. But it's not clear who's going to be the Victor. So what actually happens? People start to gather the come out for those call the come out to the military base where he's at and someone opens the door and people start trickling. Leopold? The Lopez is standing next to machine-gun looks like he's ready to do battle. Winnow? The there are people in the streets. Now are groups of people in the media, which is the main opposition neighborhood. They start to clash with the military have been sent out. There's the scene that starts circulating on social media of an armored vehicle. That's running over the protesters. Suddenly waves of people are coming into the hospitals with these injuries from rubber bullets from getting hit by the vehicles that are being Sanath to them crocodiles turns into pandemonium for number of hours. While this question of who is going to take the countries is getting decided as this happens. The people who were mentioned to me is the defectors start to get onto Twitter and say, they're on Madero side. So it looks like things aren't going well for white. Oh, and then. Got you. Later in the afternoon. News comes out that they'll pull the Lopez that had gotten out of his house arrest is now hiding in an embassy. That doesn't look good and by evening by nightfall. It looks like there's just been another battle in this long war that Madero again has one. He's clearly the president is clearly in charge of the state and those back to where he was to begin with which is the leader of the opposition that saying he's the president. But isn't so by the end of the day, the forces around Guido have been clearly defeated and his close ally. Leo Lopez is literally in hiding, it's one giant revolution. That starts back to where it began one big circle. So it feels like this has been the story of the past few months the opposition movement that why does leading gains momentum. It seems like the military might flip against Madora, and he might be ousted and yet the military ends up staying with him, and he remains in power and the opposition's momentum kind of fizzles. Yeah. The cycle is repeated itself so many times the opposition keeps trying to get the Venezuelan deep state, which is all of these people from the security stablishment to the armed forces the ones, they're really holding up mature at this point. And they never seemed to be able to get that. What you see in Venezuela is that it's having to use the deep state to run the state because it's no longer a democracy and at the end of the day. Yeah. It looks like this was just another one of these failed attempts from the opposition to try to be able to get the deep state on their side. They haven't been able to get the military to join them fully they haven't been able to get the secret police to get on their side. They haven't been able to get these people that are actually the ones in control of the country to join the opposition. At least it doesn't appear that they have. But all my desk that day is a dossier. And it tells maybe a different story of kinds of fractures that you can't see that are playing out within Mr. Medeiros government in what is this dossier? It's a stack of documents. That tells a history of a man named Tareq LA Saami who's one of the most central people to the government right now after Mr. Maduro, he's one of his chief confidence. He's a person that you see almost every time that Madero is going out onto a stage. He used to be the vice president he's one of the most powerful men in the country. And what does the stack of documents tell you about it says that somebody in the intelligence agency was trying to investigate this, man? And they had a lot of suspicions not just of him. But also family having been volved in everything from bringing in militants into the country from the Middle East to trafficking drugs within his own country. Wow. So for example, halfway into this dossier. You start to come across documents from the attorney general's office talking about what looks like a major drug bust that took place on the border of Brazil. Venezuela. The agents came to these empty warehouses where houses they thought were empty, and they suddenly came across one hundred forty tonnes of urea, which is one of the components that used to make cocaine turned out these actually belong to one of the biggest drug traffickers in the country. But the man who came out, and these documents is the legal Representative of that drug trafficker was Tareq Samis cousin as the case works its way up through the courts, tarp saw Samis stars starring to rise in leftist, politics, and what you see in the dossier. Is that alternately the cocaine ingredients are returned back to the drug trafficker? And the implication is this had something to do with charcoal. I saw me. But why is the significant right now in the context of all of this political turmoil going on in Venezuela? This gets to the core. I think it what makes Venice Willens angriest the most it's not just that. You don't have food in Caracas. You don't have medicine or water or trysofi? It's the fact that the government may be the source of your woes because of the level of corruption and how much they've pillaged from the state while you're starving. Someone else is a billionaire, and they may have made that money off of drug trafficking. There used to be a term still used called Bulla Garcs which refers to the people that had benefited from the boulevard and revolution the left-wing revolution that took place in Venezuela at had been able to make off with millions from the state. This is the center of what this movement is about this is why people want Madore out is because many of them are looking for someone who they can trust. And what these documents are saying is target less on isn't one of them. And the other reason why this is important is because of how we got this information. Shen? This is information which came from Medeiros own security establishment. So it not only shows that they were suspicious of the people who running the government just like the people in the streets. But they also wanted others to know about this the fact that they were willing to give these papers to reporters from the New York Times shows that that United front that Madero wants to show isn't really there. There's something a lot more complicated going on under the surface right now. So Nick, you're saying that the fact that you're able to tell the story to see this dossier is significant unto itself because it means that there are people in Madurai government, specifically, it sounds like in his intelligence apparatus who aren't as United or loyal to Madero as he would have believe these documents came from someone who has held very high rank in Venezuela's intelligence community, and the fact that they're published in the times shows that there's something going on with the spies in the country. I can tell you. This person was a true believer in the government for years, but doesn't believe it anymore and has some real doubts about who is running the country right now. And I think the goal in handing over documents like this was trying to show the rest of the world that the people running Venezuela couldn't be trusted. I think it was that simple. If you're a spy, you have access to all kinds of information and your powers when you give that information out when it's released turning something secret into something public as a huge thing when it comes to espionage. And this was what was happening. This is the kind of stuff that wants compile shouldn't see the light of day, if you're the intelligence community, this is stuff, which are basically state secrets and put these out in a manner that they're going to get published for the world to see it's making a big statement about who you wanna see in charge of Venezuela. So you have always made clear that what really matters is what happens to the military. If there are mass defections from the military that would almost assuredly mean the end of the Madore regime, what about the intelligence community? What happens if they started affect each or constituents which are key to keeping Madero empower? Both are looking at the other to see which is going to take the first move. And I think these play off of one another. So it's dynamic, which is really important. Does that mean that even though it felt like one Goydos latest call for the Madero government to turn on it? Even though it looked like that fizzled. Maybe actually it's kind of working because you're seeing this deep state actually begin to break away from Doro in a pretty meaningful way yet. We the thing that you got remembers that the protesters are outside right now, they got quashed, but they're not inside the prison. Palace. If something is storing to break inside that's much more scary situation to wrote those are the people that Medeiros seeing when he's at these cabinet meetings. And if he's just gone through this day on Tuesday, where the US said that there were top officials about to betray him. And then by the end of the week. He seeing all these pages of information that had been assembled by his intelligence agency, getting published in the New York Times, if he's looking around these cabinet meetings, and he doesn't know if he can fully trust these people, it makes you think that you don't know what the next step is. And how am I going to keep myself in power? So why does call is actually being answered by the most dangerous people imaginable to nNcholas Maduro, which are powerful individuals within his government. Exactly. Remember, the reason why J Edgar Hoover was. So feared in the US was because he had information on presidents these presidents more than anyway. One fear the people running their intelligence agencies. Those people can be used to squash their opponents, but they can also turn on them too. And I think that's one of the fears that the government has and so this dossier is no doubt kind of message to Madero that the intelligence community could very well have the same kind of information about him. So I've seen the file on Asami Medeiros confidante. But if there's a file that's there on Madero. That's something that Venezuelans would really want to see and that file would be a lot more damaging. Thank you. Thanks, michael. Make that oral care. Yesterday's news. Over a million mouths agree. Quick makes daily brushing better for the whole family. The quip electric toothbrush has time sonic vibrations and signalling pulses for more thorough clean in two minutes. Plus fresh brush heads delivered automatically to keep your brush fresh quip starts at twenty five dollars with refills delivered every three months for only five dollars. And here's some great news. You can get your first refill pack free at get quip dot com slash daily. That's G E T Q U I P dot com slash the daily. Mine is Lindsay garrison. I'm one of the many producers behind the daily was pretty early days of the daily when all of a sudden Charlottesville happened. We were trying to figure out ways to cover this. And I remember thinking of this one guy Derek black. His dad was the Spain Mus kick aka leader. Derek was basically like white supremacy royalty. But then in his twenties, he completely disavowed the movement I called him up. And I said, hi, Derek. We wanna give your story. Space, and I don't wanna chop it up into soundbites. He said, okay. And this interview was one of the most arresting interviews I've ever done in my life. Derek story represented something that we're trying to do every single day on this show stories that get to the messy -ness of humanity, the shades of gray that I believe are behind every single news story out there without the support of the New York Times. I wouldn't have able to tell that story. If you want to hear more stories like this, please subscribe, go to NY times dot com slash subscribe. And thanks so much for listening. Here's what else you need to know his deadly serious about it is the attorney general of the United States of America is not telling the truth to the congress of the United States. That's a crime on Thursday. House speaker Nancy Pelosi accused attorney general William Barr of mine to congress when he testified that he was unaware of concerns from special counsel Robert Muller about how far had summarized mothers conclusions of the Russia investigation that claim now appears to be contradicted by a letter sent to bar by that laid out Muller's concerns about bar summary. He lied to congress. And you lied to counters. Anybody else did that we'd be considered a crime? Nobody is above the law. Not the president of the United States and not the attorney general for further. Antagonized congressional Democrats on Thursday by refusing to testify before the House Judiciary committee prompting that committee's chairman Representative Jerry Napper to threaten to hold for in. Contempt of congress today is besides the attitude of contempt administration as per congress. What we so's fear. Fear of -ffective course, examination. Period. But they say I've been banned for being dangerous and anti semitic from Facebook than I will, quote, we urged. These books said it had prominently banned several far right individuals and organizations from all its platforms, including Alex Jones, the founder of info and Louis Farrakhan, the black nationalist minister who has repeatedly been accused of anti-semitism Facebook said that those band had violated its policies against hate speech in their conduct on Facebook or outside and that it would remove all accounts fan pages and groups affiliated them the decision is a sign that after years of criticism that it allowed bigotry to fester on its platforms that Facebook or more aggressively crackdown on across its various platforms which include Instagram, and what's out. Daily is made by feel welcome Andy mills Lisa Tobin. Wester Lindsey garrison Anne Brown Claire tennis getter page coward. Michael Simon Johnson. Brad Fisher, the recite Anderson Wendy door. Chris would Jessica Chung. Alexandra Leon Jonathan wolf Lisa Chow. Eric Kripke, Mark, George and Luke Vander. Our theme music is by Jim Grunberg and Ben land for of Wunderle special. Thanks to Sam Dolman Maceio Bouchard, Stella Tam. Julia, Simon and Samantha. That's it for the deal. I'm Michael c one Monday. This is your breakfast. Wakeup call from Pinera. Don't start your day with a greasy process breakfast, a Panara breakfast to go no longer means to settle try their new maple glazed bacon, scrambled egg and cheese breakfast wrap. Impair it with a new meta Gaskell vanilla cold brew all made one hundred percent clean and ready to go with rapid pickup at the push of a button breakfast is the most important meal of the day. And that means compromising isn't an option Panara food as it should be.
One Familys Story of Survival and Loss in New Zealand
"They might just give you who wanted to see how it sounds MC. Could tell me. I guess we got to Christian. I met a dollar in Henan Alayan for the first time in Christ Jewish just are for a week ago. Have you already talked about? Now as day started telling me about what happened on the day of the terror attack in Christ Church at the mosque with father and brother a team. It was a blur. That's definitely a blue. They went straight to the hospital. We go to for Dan to that. We did. So we did all the man hunt to try and find him. They knew that the dead had gone into surgery. So they knew that he had definitely been at the hospital at some point. But they hadn't heard about the brother. So they get to the hospital and the dad's name is an anywhere and their brothers nightmares anywhere. So they basically just start rushing from room to roam on a hunter try and find either of them, we couldn't we told my so many people seeing seeing came out of surgery that he was okay. Went to every ward couldn't find him anywhere. And he. Wasn't on the list either. These this list at the hospitals, and these a number of anonymous patients on the list people who have been in surgery, but they don't have names for them. So kind of earlier in the night we were thinking. Okay. Well, if they're still seventeen unconfirmed people then this hook that up brothers. Also here is one of those enormous patients eventually really late at night after kind of just chaotic back and forth with the police and who was handling it. They did end up finding out exactly who every single one of those patients were. They. Yeah. A doctor who's part of the Muslim community in Christ judge comes into a waiting room. And he seems Lee stands up, and he starts reading the names these one two three four and dad was bred out. If others name is cold, and they feel the sense of relief. But as more and more names being cold, and they don't hear the brothers. They just start to feel the chiefs clinch shop kept hearing, more and more names. Warn, you pretty much. When the disc toll climbed thing it started at like nine when I went from six to nine thirty to forty five. Climbed the more Huila realize what are the chances that they both made it? It. And then we just got in and his name hadn't been right out. From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbaro today. New Zealand is holding a national day of remembrance for the fifty people killed in the mosque shootings in Christ's church. The majority of the victims and their families were migrants or refugees from countries like Pakistan, India, Malaysia, and Indonesia, my colleague, Charlotte. Cram MacLay spent several days with one of the families. It's Friday March twenty ninth. So the Elaine family Muhammed is their father may soon is their mom and the three kids. I also Hennion and Abdullah also was born in Kuwait City in nineteen eighty five which is are has parents were living at the time. And what did I do? The ethnically Palestinian. And we're both scientists have heard so many accounts of mum chuckling raising her son and kind of lecturing and sorting out the HD and bringing him into really unsafe labs, so. Zealand win a university here wanted beef research, and that's what father did. So that's win. Christ Church became ashes home and nineteen ninety-five. His on a MacIntosh MacIntosh computer euros, really old ones with the what's that duck shooting game. I'm not sure these old old Macs. Look like bricks US to go and sit there she was doing split king. He was an only child for eight and a half years before his siblings came along. And it seems like he grew up as the sort of golden child. He was really good at sport. Once and he was a goalkeeper. However, he also scored go from a goalkeeping position credible. Yeah. So when his parents first moved to Christ judge has father was one of the leadership figures at the L, no moss. But the mosque was and Turco to kind of. I not life. It was beyond childhood. I was probably them more than most every week, you know, atavism with that in high school because high school had chased favorite does. This is kind of that struggle with identity, and the kind of a wisdom context, he went to the same high school as I did he was really really effective kind of, you know, blending in and being you know, just like any other Kiwi. But also in saying that he's he was one to absolutely embrace his Muslim identity any kind of around with him in a really effective way in the way that it's relatable. So I think obviously there's a bit of a struggle to assimilation on the opposite. But I think for me, I'm not the most sporty person out there. And this is interesting because I mean, everything I was interested in was not really what defined cautious was high like I did drama and debating and all these kind of cultural things that. Literally, no one respected. So one thing it kind of advise me was that getting into sport really does unlock doors, socially and an absolutely in hindsight. Can completely say that he wasn't wrong. It'd being into sports just made him more accessible to people that he otherwise wouldn't be. And we we often kind of disgust are Haskell experiences. And I've always lived through kind of his mistakes and his experiences, and it's literally was like my second father he'd gone through this stuff. So. He's always teaching us from his mistakes. It sounds like it's going to be something. We're going to really miss. I mean, I'm pretty stubborn in general, and I don't really ticket by from people. But anytime I want some inves- I'd go to him for everything. And he'd always the answer. And it would be the perfect answer. How do you begin to prosise something? I mean. Yeah. They're going to be totally honest with you. I think processing is gonna take very long time. I don't think. Yeah. We haven't hundred percent started processing. Yeah. I mean, the first in the second day were pretty tough. But I think kinda. Kinda pull it together a little bit for the sake of. But it's going to be long long road. And I think. Things are going to come up with every now and again, we're needs. Needs be Amanda, what's fun. Wanna talk to he's not here. Kind of thing. I'll show that's going to be years of pain. But I think it is influenced to describe what it means. To them influence. During architecture because I so wanna his one of his graphics projects penned up on his will. I mean, it's actually kind of hated life is like this yellow Simpson. Looking alice. And has pinned up on his bowl. And I sold a flow pens, and the sketches, and I was so inspired. And interestingly at something he set professed to stay close to home. He didn't wanna go to Wellington to study architecture because they didn't want to be on two things. We wanted to be an architect or dentists, and this one's. Just not to put both of those dreams on hold because he didn't want to split family. Atta stayed in Christ's church. He decided to study computer sciences and after his degree. He developed a business app design. It was during this time that he missed Fata. Was an angel. Honestly, not because he was my husband. It was too. Good to be true. She lived in Jordan at the time. And so they had this long distance courtship for while. I felt that this was the man I wanna marry I was very sure that I wanted to be the father of my children because he had every single thing that I wanted in the man. So it was we there's in Jordan in tell me about. The best part for me was when sang to him. We didn't know she could sing that's something. We didn't know about at the time. And no one expected that she kept it as a surprise. And she walked part way through we heard some realize it was her she walked in singing, beautiful, Arabic English. And she's saying it to him. He crying real prize. They had a little girl a baby named IRA. He never sang before he member say before. I've never heard. She's nearly two. Do you? It's like two. If. So far has been busy with you know, like a lot of children around does maybe two days ago. She woke up the middle of the night prying, and she was calling. And then I conjured on she's back and then the other day, she heard the plane. She's like, I'm like, yeah. She's like oh Clint because just Monday night. He went to Oakland to where delays has brother. So. I'm like, yeah. Moma bubba. He. Yeah. He's gone. But not to Oakland this time. He went to John which is heaven so for no, this is what I'm going to tell her that he traveled to the space, but we can't call him. And he he's going to this place. Whereas it's heaven, not Oakland. So right now, we're just waiting to get the call from the police to say you can see the body now. And after that, we can get started on the steps towards the period. And after that, we're just going to wait. So two days later photographer Etem was with the family when Abdali the cool that it was time to go and receive ashes body. And Edham see the composure broke just for a moment. And they went to go and get outta. Overnight. They watched him Abdullah looked after that, and they shrouded him. And then they went to bury him in a mess funeral with twenty five dollars. I was able to attend utters funeral. I stood in the seek Shen with the women were five thousand people there. Knicks event. Is proof and evidence. Play. A war Turner ISM has no. Has no race and has religion. To the people of New Zealand. Thank you. Thank you. Dues. Thank you for your flowers. Thank you. For your love and compassion. All the wonderful people. Who have shown us? We. North forgotten. New Zealand all New Zealanders and the world. In this segment for shit. What? Win the party's proceeded into the Barrio area. They will ask just to keep the party small for safety reasons. They didn't want to mix up the plots. We don't want anyone. They didn't want anyone to exit slip and fall into a grave. And so people were asked to only bring forward the closest family to bury the loved one. They read out the list of names in groups of five. You used to sing at a funeral cluster. Family around a grave. But what was so striking here is that you saw five clusters of family around five graves, and then you head team. And people were trying to have this kind of private farewell with all circled really closely together around h grave. But they were so close to the other families doing the same thing. And then they would encourage them to file out when they were finished. And they would read out the next five names. And and the third group of five the first name that was read out with others. The four artists body was Borton his father who I recognized from pictures was wheeled and his wheelchair. He's been recovering from gunshot wounds and hospital. But obviously he was able to come out for his son's funeral. He was all in black, and he just waited by the grave, and in the women filed a little way behind him Fatah and may soon after mum and Maine has sister and some other relatives, and they were all supporting each other holding onto each other. And the ashes body was Broughton. And I knew it was him because I could say Abdullah among those carrying the coffin. They had these open coffins with low sides. So you could see the shrouded body inside. And the other's dead Muhammed supporting himself on a cane got out of the wheelchair and stood by the grave as artists body was lowered and everyone head the're hens on him. It seems like everyone hit a hand on his back. And they were all supporting each other. In just stood there for a long time surrounded by all of these other families doing the same. In the shake sang, a llahu Akbar. God is great before the bodies were lowered. They picked up the shovels, and they started to shovel earth into the grave. Dullah ashes brother was going around and giving everyone hugs, but these really completely stock still hugs. He would hold each person. And they would just stand really still for a long time. The in floral arrangement was placed on the grave and the mean filed out they still head the hands on each other's backs. The women came to the grave for a moment and stood the Atto outside the Barrio area will whiting at as football teammates. They filed out and the the Knicks group of bodies was brought in. And that keep happening until the funeral was over. Not long after I got home. I go to taste from Abdullah. And he just wanted to make sure I made it into the funeral. Okay. I told him I head, and then I asked him how he was doing. And he replied all I can say is that I feel at pace. We have lost. We still have each other. We're gonna get through it. Get it is not lie has to go on. You gotta keep Louis. We do have faith, even if it's moving not quite a strong might do have free through believe me after we believe he's in. And we wanna meet him there. So I just hope that one day will be again United in Jena in heaven. And this is what we'll give me this train to you know, to continue our dreams and goals that we could not achieve together. And that we already said, and I'm going to raise our daughter to know, her father was very proud of her her father and. I love him. Always do. Officials in New Zealand now say that all fifty victims of the shooting have been identified and buried. Okay. Back. Tired of standing idly by on the sidelines while the world goes crazy. Diane Lockhart is Dan so is the cast of the critically acclaimed legal drama, the good fight. Join the fight by streaming the new season premiering March fourteenth exclusively on CBS Alexis. Tune in to see if Diane Lockhart will lead the resistance in a new post factual world. We're lawyers with the best stories triumph over the lawyers with the best facts. Visit CVS dot com slash New York Times today to start your free trial of CBS Alexis and catch up on the first two seasons. Head of the season premiere on March fourteenth. Here's what else you need to. On thursday. The times found that the reports admitted by special counsel, Robert Muller was more than three hundred pages long suggesting that went well beyond the bare bone summary required by law and offered a detailed explanation of his conclusions. No, thank you. Mr. attorney general we do not need your interpretation shell report and we've control our own conclusions. So far, those conclusions have been summarized in a four page document by the attorney general William bar fueling calls, especially from Democrats for him to release the full report to both congress and the public who don't need you interpreting for us that was condescending it was aggregate in. It wasn't the right thing to do. Silt the sooner they can give us the information. The sooner we can all make a judgment about it. Mussa pre court has ruled that a ban imposed by the Trump administration on bump stocks, a device that allows semi automatic rifles to fire more like automatic rifles can remain in place under the band, which was put in place after a bump stock was used in a mass shooting in Las Vegas. It is illegal to sell or possess bump stocks and those who currently own them have ninety days to either destroy them or turn them over to the government. The daily is produced by feel welcome Lindsey garrison Waigel Wester Anne Brown, Andy mills, Claire, tennis koetter, Michael Simon Johnson. Jessica Chung, Alexandra Lee young and Jonathan wolf and edited by page. Cowan LaRussa Anderson and Wendy door. Lisa Tobin is our executive producer. Samantha Hennig is our editor director our technical manager. Is Brad Fischer? Our engineer is Chris would. And our theme music is by Jim Bromberg, and Ben lands of Wunderle special. Thanks to Samdani Michaela Bouchard, Stella ten and Damien cave. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Barr. See women.
The Family That Profited From the Opioid Crisis
"From the New York Times. This is the daily. Today. The family that built its fortune on Oxycontin has never been held legally accountable for the opioid epidemic that the drug helped unleash berry mind on why that may soon change. It's Friday March fifteenth. Turn the Guggenheim is one of this country's and certainly New York's premier museums beautiful museum of spiral shape structure that houses Amman art collection and in late February a group of individuals, enter the museum was the particular night where entrance was free, and they they walked up the spiral structure, and they took positions there. Hundred. He predetermined point. They released thousands of small sheets of paper. That looked like the type of prescriptions that doctor would give you. They were prescriptions for the drug Oxycontin. Oxycontin is one of the most powerful and potentially addicting painkiller ever produced by the pharmaceutical industry, and when these papers fluttered down through the air, they looked like a snow blizzard that settled on the floor. And then a banner was released that said shame on Sackler. So what exactly is this group protesting who is Sackler? Well, the Sackler name is best known as family that are beneficiaries of the arts. Their name is tied to the Guggenheim. The American Museum of natural history and natural pilot museum in New York and the Tate and London and as benefactors of medical schools. The Sackler name is plastered on institutes or schools of medicine at Cornell Columbia tufts, George, Washington, McGill and Tel Aviv university's. They're also one of this country's most secretive families and part of their secretiveness comes from the fact that their fortune has been made from the sale of Oxycontin, the Sackler family owns Perdue pharma and their main drug Oxycontin has made them tens of billions of dollars since it was introduced in the nineteen nineties actually contents at the center of a national opioid epidemic. That's killed an estimated three hundred thousand people. Since the late nineties now protesters along with some state officials and plaintiff's lawyers believe that the Sackler family should start paying the price for some of the havoc that the aggressive and over marketing of this drug produced, and why are these protesters going after the Sackler family right now in particular, there has been a almost two decade history of lawsuits against Purdue pharma as well as other drug companies. But it's only just now that lawsuits are being filed against members of the Sackler family in particular one was filed recently by the state of Massachusetts. A Massachusetts lawsuit is the first name some produce farmers owners, eight members of the Sackler family and other executives claiming they participated in a deadly any legal scheme as a result of this lawsuit and the sort of Pretre. Filed discovery that's going on. There are new documents. That are starting to come to public light, which really are showing for the first time the apparent depth of involvement of Sackler family members in the operations of produce pharma. And what exactly do these documents say that as actors new or did when it came to Oxycontin and opiates really up until this time, the company in the Sackler have been very successful in creating what really is apparently Mirage that this family while owning the company or sort of hands off, and they were not involved in the day to day operations. They did not make significant decisions with respect to how the drug was marketed or sold, and they were shielded from all the nasty business related to the addiction and abuse that was occurring around the drug. But what the documents that are emerging? Now are starting to show is that the Sackler micromanaged this company. They obsessed over issues like how many sales representatives should be out there promoting Oxycontin to doctors. How many times those sales Representative should go to particular doctor because they were doing studies that showed the more you send to a doctor the more they prescribed. They were determining apparently the criteria for how sales people would be compensated putting a premium on getting sales representatives to sell the highest dosages of this drug, and as we know the highest dosages of any opioid poses the greatest risk of potential addiction to patient and other really serious side effects. I mean, there was even an Email written. That's come to light by Dr. Richard Sackler who is the son of one of the founders of producer armor and the company's one time president that suggests that he told the company in two thousand eight that we are going to major our performance by prescriptions by strength giving higher measures to hire strings. So what you're laying out here is not just a family that is involved, but family that is intimately involved with the minute. Details of how opioids could be systematically prescribe in in the sense over prescribed. This was a family that was certainly gets impression from these documents. That was not only counting every pill that was being sold. But making sure that every pill that was so was the highest strength of that pill because it would bring in the highest amount of. Dollars. And what we know is that the Sackler family was apparently made aware of the abuse of Oxycontin, not long after the drug. I came onto the market which was one which was nineteen Ninety-six will before the company publicly acknowledged that abuse in two thousand and there was a view within produce pharma that all the problems associated with this drug where due to the bad people who are abusing it. And what we know from these documents is that in two thousand one very early in the opioid epidemic. Richard Sackler road in an Email. That is cited in this Massachusetts law suit. He said, quote, we have to hammer on abusers in every possible way. Way. They are the culprits and the problem, they are reckless criminals. So what this member of the Sackler family is saying is there should be a strategy a public relations strategy of attacking people who become addicted to oxygen. That's right. And in that same year two thousand and one there began to be a number public reports about overdose deaths involving Oxycontin and in one specific report. There was a citation that there were fifty nine overdose deaths involving Oxycontin in one particular stink. And again, Richard Sackler? When he saw that report had very curious response. Which was what he wrote? This is not too bad. It could have been for worse. More deaths. More problems. For correct for the company. Correct severe when you get your hands on these documents, and you read them over and you process them what is going through your head about the aquifers. It's a funny thing, Michael I have covered the story for almost two decades. And there've been many times over these two decades where I thought I knew the story, and when documents like this appear it jolts me, and in many ways, it reminds me very much of a of an industry I covered in the late nineteen nineties for the times. This was another industry that thought that it would never be held to account, and I got to cover that accounting. Right back. Used to be hard multiple job sites. Decks resumes. But today hiring can be easy. And you only have to go to one place to get it done. Ziprecruiter. Ziprecruiter is so effective that eighty percent of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners contries it for or for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash D. I L Y. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Buried Tillis what was going on in the nineteen nineties that reminded you of the sack lers. There's one particular episode that was striking. There's a professor at the university of California. San Francisco Dr stand glands and one day there is a cardboard box that suddenly arrives in his office. The return address on the box has the name Mr. butts, which was the famous Garry Trudeau cartoon character of cigarette. You know, representing the cigarette industry. Sakina tobacco industry target kids. Gotta love them. Even though I'm constantly on the go. Dr glands open the box. What he finds inside of. It is a troll of what are essentially stolen documents. Documents that have been taken out of a law firm that represents one of the world's biggest cigarette manufacturers Brown and Williamson and within this box are dozens of internal memorandum and records showing that this company and other cigarette makers knew that their products were killing their customers. I'd like you to rise and those who will be testifying as well. Not long before these documents appeared the executives of all the major cigarette companies had been called to congress, and there's this very iconic photographs that exists we're all of them stand up at the witness table and are sworn in and they hold up there. Right. The testimony are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing, but the truth. Please consider yourself to be under oath and one by one. They were all asked a question to the effect of to your knowledge are cigarettes. Addictive. Give leave nicotine is not addictive. I believe nicotine is not addictive. Yes. Mr johnston. Congressman cigarettes and nicotine, clearly do not meet the classic definitions of the dictionaries. No talk. And one by one each of them said, no, I don't believe that nicotine or our products were dick. No. No, I the nicotine not. No. So these executives testified to congress that they did not believe cigarettes were addictive shortly before the professor received a box of documents showing that the executive in fact, did no they were harmful to people that is right. What do we know about who sent these documents? It was a paralegal at the law firm that represented Brown Williamson. And the reason is often the reason why documents like this come to light someone decides that they want the public to know the truth, and it wasn't just Dr glands that got these documents a reporter at the times named Phil hilts got them as well. And the times broke the story. What was the reaction from the public to the revelation of these documents? It was a shock. Probably twenty five to thirty documents. We'll be the most incriminating documents ever in the history of tobacco litigation. These documents. You see that we were never supposed to find out about each showed that the industry have been consciously lying to the public for decades. And decades documents from one company Brown and Williamson show the tobacco industry knew the addictive and cancer causing impact of cigarette smoking for thirty years. This was a defining moment for the tobacco industry. They're not driven out of business. But there is a su- NAMI of losses. Remember the date the twentieth of June nineteen ninety seven it was on this day that the attorneys general more than forty states said in Washington that they had finally beaten the tobacco industry into submission as the first state to sue big tobacco. It was only fitting today that Mississippi become the first to get paid taxes. Attorney General Dan Morales presented his settlement with tobacco giants with triumph. Minnesota becomes the fourth state several with tobacco industry over the costs of smoking related illnesses lawsuits that eventually forced the industry not only to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars. But to publicly acknowledge that they've been lying to the public. And as part of the settlement of all these lawsuits. The cigarette makers agreed to end the public advertising of cigarettes on billboards and in other media, be newspapers or magazines. I can remember doing story for the times about the last cigarette billboard. And I mean, they were ubiquitous in the United States at one time. So you had essentially total cultural shift in how're product was sold in how a product was perceived. Berry. It's easy to see the parallels between the Brandon Williams documents that you're referring to and the produce pharma documents that were starting to lay our eyes on do you think that we're in a similar moment for the sack layers as we were in the nineties when these tobacco documents came out. It's very interesting, Michael. Because in the history of the story of every controversial product be it as best does or tobacco or narcotic painkillers. They tend to follow the same arc the manufacturers. The industry is successful for years or decades in protecting itself. They hire the best lawyers. They hire lobbyists. They're able to deflect defend all the attacks against them. And in the process, they also become arrogant. They think they're invulnerable. They think this reckoning is never going to happen. And ultimately, there's a crack and through that crack the truth starts seeping through. And I think that in the case of the Sackler family that is beginning to happen. Now, this is their tobacco moment. This. Is their moment of recognizing they claim that the documents that have emerged paints a unfair pitcher, but they've been cherry picked to vilify them. But Purdue pharma is free to release all the documents. It wants if it wants the full story to be out there that is in the power of the Sackler family. And the Sackler family has chosen not to do. So. The documents that you have been referring to throughout our conversation. I'm realizing that they are in some cases seventeen eighteen years old two thousand two thousand one. Why are they just coming out? Well, one of the most troubling aspects of the story, Michael is the fact that. Public officials bear responsibility for the opioid epidemic. Mean the first investigations of produce date back to two thousand but time after time to settle these lawsuits against Purdue pharma, Purdue paid public officials money settlement funds and in exchange. These officials who represent us agreed to consign these emails to consign these documents to secrecy as the price of settlement. So these public officials allowed the Sackler as owners of Purdue to buy a kind of collective silence around their culpability. They joined in that collective silence. They didn't just allow the Sackler is to buy it. They became parties to it. And it's my belief that had these documents come to light if these. Officials truly acted in the public's interest that the trajectory of this epidemic would have changed drastically. And it would not have evolved into the public catastrophe that it has become and it's only when these documents are seen by the public, and that there's an outcry over them like there was at the Guggenheim with this blizzard of fake prescriptions that these public officials are motivated to really do something to stop. What's happening? That's right. And ultimately, it's my hope that all these documents will become public and that we will know the history of the opioid epidemic. Much in the same way that we know the history of the tobacco problem now. We need documents Perry. We're talking about one family this actors and one company produced Armagh if the Sackler families time running this company and the power that they have begins to fall apart. Where does that leave the rest of the opioid industry? Isn't it very possible that another pharmaceutical company will come along, and we'll take its place. We'll sell another version of Oxycontin, there's a huge market for it. And potentially lots of money to be made when we'd like to think that doctors have learned their lesson. One might be naive to think that. But I believe that there has been a change in the overall medical view in the value of Ochowicz. I think doctors have come to a realization that these drugs do have serious consequences. What difference will it make? If the Sackler is fall by the wayside. That's a good question. What is important along with the price? They pay the financial price they pay which to them probably will be minimal given their fortune. Is that the truth about them will come out? So that when you are I walked past a museum like Guggenheim and see the Sackler name or a young idealistic medical student walks into a medical school and sees the name Sackler on that building. We will know with these people are we will know them for the life. They live and the values that they. Embraced on the drug this old and the drug that they so. Yes. Barry. Thank you. Very very much for this. We appreciate it. Michael. It's always a pleasure. The times reports that in a newly disclosed deposition, Richard Sackler Peterle gave testimony about Oxycontin that appears to contradict evidence found by the department of Justice in one case Sakr claimed under oath that he first learned Oxycontin was being abused in two thousand despite an Email which shows he was warned a year earlier Purdue pharma had fought the public release of the twenty fifteen deposition which had called quote regrettable. Meanwhile, the consequences for the Sackler continues to grow last week, a major hedge fund said it would no longer manage the family's money as it has for years because it was uncomfortable with the Sackler is role in the opioid crisis. Here's what else you need to on Thursday. The Senate voted via wide March to overturn President Trump's declaration of national emergency at the southern border in a rare bipartisan rebuke of his domestic agenda that is expected to trigger. The president's first veto never before has a president ask for funding. The congress has not provided and then the president has used the national emergencies act of nineteen seventy six to spend the money anyway, mom acres in both parties characterized the emergency declaration as a clear case of executive overreach designed to circle vent congress to finance his border wall. The problem with this is that after a revolutionary war against king. Our nation's founders gave to congress congress elected by the people the power to approve. All spending. So that the president would not have too much power. This check on the executive is a source of our freedom. The Republicans who broke with Trump said they feared that supporting this national Amercians, which they called unwarranted would lay the groundwork for future democratic presidents to deploy the same tactic to work around congress in pursuit of their own agenda. And today's decision by the Connecticut supreme court. We would all say was a long time in coming in a major win for advocates of gun control. The Connecticut supreme court ruled that the families of those killed in the sandy hook massacre are allowed to sue the manufacturers of the rifle used in the shooting. The ruling allows the families to work around a federal law. It has long shielded gun makers from loss when their weapons are used in a crime, creating a potential opening for a wave of similar legal actions seeking to hold. Gun makers liable for shooting today. The court essentially has said something that is a very basic principle, which is that nobody's above the law. Nobody is above the law. That's really the takeaway from the decision. The case revolves around marketing materials used by Remington, the manufacturer of the rifle used in the sandy hook shooting marketing, bidding -cluded, the motto consider your man card. Bree issue. This is not the type of use that is constructive to public safety. There are the images that promote the masculinity of the weapon that is meant to be conferred by simply buying an a r fifteen lawyers for the families argued that such messages represent a deliberate appeal to troubled young men like Adam lands the twenty who carried out the massacre. You can't engage in reckless marketing that does nothing to address. A problem. But only contributes to it. The daily is produced by feel Valk Lindsey garrison. Rachel Wester any Brown, Andy mills, I Colorado. Claire tennis scattered Michael Simon Johnson. Jessica Chung, Alexandra Lee young and Jonathan wolf and edited by page. Cowan LaRussa Anderson and Wendy door. Lisa Tobin is our executive producer. Samantha Hennig is our editors director our technical manager. Is Brad Fischer? Our engineer is Chris would. And our theme music is by Jim Bromberg, and Ben lands of Wunderle. Special thanks to Sam dome. Maceio Bouchard and Stella tan. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Barr. See you on Monday. Hey, I'm I'm the host of the special a new podcast about what makes some of America's most interesting cities so special like how the newest residents of Minneapolis influenced traditional cooking. There's a lot of ways to make money every person will tell you their way is the correct, of course, my ways the correct way of making. That's the special with me, man. You know?
The Struggle to Teach From Afar
"Good morning everybody I hope you had a great spring break. We are starting a new book today and it is called same son here. By Silas, house and NEELA visas wanting. I think you're really gonNA like it. It's written as a series of letters. Between two characters. and. I'm going to go ahead and get started. Deer River. I cannot tell from your name if you're a boy or girl. So, I'll just write to you like you're a human being. You are the first. American I know whose name means something so I think. Maybe you're not from this country. My brother says you are. He says all people in Kentucky are Americans not like in New, York City where most people are from everywhere in the world. and. From the new. York Times I'm Michael, Barr. This is the daily. My brother seventeen years old, he has a big smile and strong legs because he's a bike messenger today. All the girls love him which makes them very conceited. As the school year comes to a close. A conversation with Rhonda McIntyre A. Fifth Grade Teacher in Ohio about the struggle to educate from afar. It's Friday. June twelfth. Hey Hi there. So I feel like I should be calling you. Mrs McIntyre. Actually no, we have an informal philosophy at our school and. I have always been called Rhonda the kids, Rhonda so when Somebody Calls Me Mrs McIntyre. It makes me feel really old. So No Rhonda. Okay. This is very progressive, not at all like when I was a student. I will participate. So I wonder if you can tell me about the school where you're teaching now. So. The name of my school is Indian Ola Informal K. through eight and it's in Columbus, Ohio. We are in a neighborhood in Columbus called Clinton Ville. But we draw from every corner of the city where one hundred percent lottery meaning, literally people will get their names kind of pulled out of a hat, or it's by merit. Do I mean now? It's by computer and. I teach fourth or fifth grade. So. I wonder if you could. Describe. Your classroom. My classroom is. It's a pretty typical informal classroom. We have a little library nook area now bookshelves surrounding it and pillows. We've got posters hanging around the room and. Student work displayed. And the hub of the classroom is our rug space. The rug space is where we meet as a group. For instruction kids bring their materials to the rug. We do not have desks. Wow, so you teach the kids for a lot of the day basically on a rug seated around you. Yeah the rug is the center. They come to the rug for the lesson. And then they often returned to tables in table, groups, or in other spaces around the room. It's important to me because. Of the proximity. I can look into their eyes I. Mean I can do classroom management easier when they're on the rug, but I can also connect with them. In a more personal way than I can. If I'm standing in, they're all seated around the room. And I think that it helps their focus and their attention span as well. Do you have anything in your classroom? Whether it's an object or a sign? Something that kids really love or are attached to? Well. Something that really is. Has Resonated with this group is something that I have called the common caddy and it's a literal. Catty with a handle. That is large enough to hold many objects. Little stuffed animals smooth river stones, scented Lotion A. Battery operated candle. The idea being you pick it up. You find a spot in the room. You try and deal with your powerful emotions that are. Creating you distraction or maybe driving you to anger you know kids. They come in from recess. There's been a friend issue. They're not over it. And they might come in and grab the common caddy and try and get over it. You know we share a lot in my classroom and kids would talk about when a relative died or you know something happening in their family. And It got to the point where there were kids that would. Zero in on someone that was you could tell they were struggling. They were having a hard time with something, and they would walk the common catty over to someone. They knew how to use it. They did, and there are some people that just kind of took it upon themselves to. Be a helper in that way. And does it work? What It does work I mean it. It's not one hundred percent, but it it does work. Given everything you've just described. And how kind of powerfully intimate. A lot of these interactions are I have to imagine that. It was very alarming to you and disruptive. To suddenly have to go from regular teaching to. The kind of remote teaching of this DEMOC. Very much so because. This is a group and not just socially and emotionally, but. You know academically. They needed a lot of support and. I have seen the results of not being able to be there and check in with the kids. I'm no I need to check in with so make sure you're getting this done that done and the other thing. I mean it's just. Tragic. I mean it's tragic. What's happened since this? Not Being in in a physical school building happened. I wonder if you could take me through. That whole process starting with when you? First realized that the school was going to be sending kids home. Well initially. We learned on Thursday march. Twelfth. That school would be closing for three weeks and our districts last day would be Friday. We had. Twenty four hours notice. So. We were making it up as we went along. Basically, it was sort of each teacher. Each school was making their plan for those first three weeks, so I said everybody go to the book shelves and take some books. And we tried to send him home with their math books. We were not operating with any kind of. This is the plan. It was sort of each teacher. Each school was making their plan for those first three weeks. So, there really was no formal structure for distance learning for virtual classrooms. No, there wasn't I think it blindsided everyone. What were the first couple of days and weeks of? Trying to teach remote once you realize that this was not going to be an extended spring break. This is going to be a new reality which don't look like for you. So, the main issue was. We were trying to develop curriculum. We were trying to develop a routine and it became clear that. Teaching, saying, Hey, everybody, be in front of your computer at. Eleven o'clock for this that or the other thing was not gonNa work. What do you mean? I was interacting with parents by email. I was interacting with parents phone APP that I have. and. I was getting some feedback. That, I'm working fourteen hours a day now and I'm not able to oversee. More so a sharing device with their sibling. You know I mean just sort of things. So. It was not going to be a situation where you could teach online. Once, you've done your best to try to get as many students as possible. On a device and it sounds like not all of them could. How many students are actually there? On the other end as best you can tell in these early days participating. Very few. So in the early days. I would say. Maybe six to eight. Wow, yeah, out of twenty five. Out of twenty five yeah. And then I started hearing from parents about how my child doesn't have any motivation. They have nothing to look forward to I totally get this That's how I started than talking on the phone with people weekly. And one of the students I checked in with was Axel High Axel? Oh is a really hard worker, but very reserved shot by. oftentimes won't ask a question if he has one. He Buddy how you doing man at the home stretch. His mother was working so hard. To. Manage four boys one in high school, two identical twins in eighth grade and axel fifth grade while she was furloughed as a massage therapist. And she reached out to me and she. Said I am completely overwhelmed and so as Axel. He'll go through the first part of it, and he'll be like okay okay. Got It, and then the test and the test is harder than the material. It is. He has like Ovadia bit harder like fifty time. Yeah. Click on. No, he. Hated the platform that the district was using called I ready. It gives you this test, and then if you don't earn the passing score, it says try again. Well. Try again is. Pretty Demoralizing. and. He had had it like he was done. I mean the computer doesn't really know you she as a person student. And you are just so good at. Giving your best effort, Axel and I. Have the lesson that you could give it better focus. And so we talked about it and I told him that you know I have been hearing this from. Other kids too, and it sounds like you're really really struggling, so let's just forget I ready so you just kind of erased it from his career path. I could tell that he needed something that was. That was going to seem more applicable to real life. and. We were studying economics. Have you taken a look at any of the economics less than? Kind of fun. Let's one of them is about shopping groceries. Probably. skittles? So. We struck a bargain case of Axel. You feel okay about looking at the economics is under social states being and he did those things well. It's always good to hear your Asian. It's good to see you on the June meeting. Thank you. It was great to talk to you and I did that with. Several kids. And it just needed to happen I mean. I learned to back off and I started assigning less and. I can just tell that they need a lot of grace and. That the academics had to be secondary. I mean I always felt that. But when when you have a parent, basically telling you look. This is a most crushing my child. Like this is crushing, their spirit and I am so overwhelmed. It just really informed me. I mean because I have not felt like I've been able to. To be there for everyone in the way that they need and I always question. Am I doing enough I mean? Am I doing enough. I mean I. think that's a teacher's existential dilemma. Always but. This has taken it to a whole new level. Let's talk about education. Schools are shut down across the country and as a nation. We're testing the limits of our education system. It's unprecedented and unfamiliar. That's why verizon in the new. York Times are working together to give every high school in America Free Digital Access to times journalism through July six. It's never been more important for students to stay informed and engaged with the world around them. Learn how to register your school at ny times dot com slash highschool access data rates apply. My name is Francis Robe was I'm a national and foreign correspondent for the new. York Times when you read an investigation that I wrote. There's a lot of things that you don't see I might. Might have spent hours driving around in circles. Making sure I wasn't being tailed. I don't give away the location of someone in hiding. I might spend an entire day crisscrossing the county knocking on a dozen people's doors, looking for exactly the source who will help me expose government corruption I might have read through five hundred pages of documents looking for a single sentence, but that's what it takes to tell these stories right and I'm proud to do it. If this kind of journalism is important to you, journalism that holds power to account that gives voice to the voiceless. Then you can support it by becoming a New York. Times subscriber go to NY. Times. Dot Com slash subscribe. Run a have you been back to your classroom? Since the school closed because of the pandemic, yes. and. It was really startling. It's Tuesday. May Nineteenth. I'm heading into my classroom. Because I opened my e mail like. First thing in the morning and I saw an email that. Talked? About getting our students belongings. Out of our classrooms out of their lockers. And closing down our classrooms, which is a very lengthy process. By this, Friday. So as I look around my room. The things that strike me. are just a mundane ordinary things. When I think about how? Are we going to do this as a class again? I have this lovely brand new. Rug. The rug even has. Multicolored circles, which can actually be a spot for kids to sit? Those circles are about an inch apart. That Is going to need to change. I'm just getting a little. Emotional thinking about all the changes I. I look at my tables I have six of them. I have a class of twenty five this year. If we're going to socially distance in classrooms. The only way I can see this working. Is One at each end. That's twelve kids. We have a caddy on every table. It has markers. It has colored pencils. It has glue sticks. Because we have communal supplies. One of the things I have to pack? Today is the math area. Pattern blocks. Fraction kits. How. We can't share them anymore to find a way for everyone to have their own kit. I don't have enough for everyone to have their own kids. It's the city school district. We have to share things. Oh my gosh. Calming caddy. That! This is a real loss, not being able to use things like this. I've been reading. That as schools are opening in Europe, some of the safeguards that they're taking in one. Is Teaching with the windows open year round. I have two windows in my room. That open. And they open. About six inches. The rest of the windows don't open. I I'm I'm afraid I'm just really afraid. I am not a spring chicken I'm fifty seven years old. and. I, WanNa, be safe just like everyone else. So I guess my biggest takeaway as I look around this room. Is How I'm GonNa do this. And, there's so much ambiguity. We don't have a plan yet. Ohio does not have a plan yet for next year. All right. So, as you're touring. Your classroom. You're realizing that it is designed for a pre. Pandemic form of teaching. Yes it is most definitely. Basically the whole structure. Of My classroom is set up. For Sharing sharing items sharing spaces. and. It was really overwhelming. Let's pretend that you attempt to impose these kinds of restrictions. Something like. A six foot. Distancing system. And perhaps you yourself as a teacher physically being further apart from the students than you've ever been before. What do you think the impact that would be? On. Your students. I think it's going to have. A numbing kind of effect you know just. It's it's going to be. A loss. And when you're heading into middle school. Your peers their central. And telling a child. You know you need to stay this far away from your peers. Having to do that on top of. Teaching. But then. Walking in the hallway. Using the restroom. I'm not able to picture how this is going to work. I! Just I'm having. I'm having a lot of angst about it. It! Seems possible that some hybrid scenario like you're describing. would be in place. You know maybe south full classroom it's. A half a classroom, some distance learning some. In classroom learning with social distancing. and. I wonder if you. Think, that. Teaching is ever going to really feel the same. No it's not going to feel the same by a long shot. But if that takes a while if that takes years. The foreseeable future. What does that mean? I don't know. I. AM in the latter part of my career. And You know my? My fulfillment is is really tied to those. Personal connections. So if I'm not getting that, Then, I have to reevaluate I. Think for what does it mean to teach? And is this teaching and is that what you set out to do? A few decades ago. Yeah that that will be a question that I will ask myself if. This extends beyond. Next year. And what do you think the answer will be? I think the answer will be that. If I can handle it financially. because. It is. It's a calling. and. Without the day today intimacy of connecting with. Children and colleagues. And their families it just it. It leaves a lot of emptiness. For someone else, it might be a good fit. Her me I don't think it would be. It would be a shame to lose you as a teacher though. I can say that and I've only known you for an hour or so. Well, thank you very much. Thank you I do hope that. Under the safest possible conditions that we can resume. The kind of classroom environment that you. Care so deeply about and I grew up with. And that so many of US treasurer. Yeah you everyone else I think. Thank you very much. We really we really appreciate your time. Thank you. PS. My brother says there was a famous movie star who died a long time ago with your name. Is this true? P. P. S.. We live five blocks away from the East River in New York City. Do you live near a river to. Also. What kind of music do you like? That's where we're going to stop for today. All Right, I'm going to sign off because it's almost time for the Mondays Zoom Meeting and I've got go get ready. A see you guys soon. We'll pack. The, following message is brought to you by. Spice Gape. Incoming transmission. Hi I'm Khayyat well. If you like stories of ordinary people doing extraordinary things you'll love true. Spies excuse bars week by week mission by mission. You'll hear the true stories behind the world's greatest espionage rations. Goes whatever APP. You're using to hear me right now. Such all true spies to was and hit subscribe. Here's what else you need tender. Those officers to be convicted and charged. Because my dad! He did not have to die the family of Derek Scott. A black man who died in the custody of Oklahoma City Police Are, demanding that police there be investigated and charged in his twenty nineteen death. After a video shoot Scott telling officers quote. I can't breathe as they pinned him to the ground. The video recorded by police body cameras captures one of the officers responding to Scott's plea, my saying quote. I don't care. Scott died short time later. A medical examiner found that his arrest contributed to his death. And senior leaders. Everything you do will be closely watched. On Thursday the country's top military official general Mark Milley. Apologized for participating in a photo op, in which president trump walked across Lafayette Square in Washington in order to hold up a Bible in front of a church as many of you saw the result of the photograph of me, Lafayette! Square last week. Sparked national debate. About the role of the military and civil society to prepare for that walk federal authorities deployed tear gas and rubber bullets on mostly peaceful protesters. Prompting former military officials to criticize milly for taking part should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment. Created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. Is a commission uniformed officer. It was a mistake that I've learned from. Finally. A Times Review of arrest records has found that none of the protesters charged with serious federal crimes over the past few weeks have been linked to the antifascist group ANTIFA. As president, trump and his attorney general bill bar have repeatedly claimed. So far! The records reveal no effort by ANTIFA to coordinate a campaign of violence. The daily is made by field alcohol. Andy Mills Lisa Tobin Rachel custer Lindsey Garrison any Brown Clare Tennis Kenner Page Cowan Michael Simon. Johnson Brad Fischer Larussa Anderson Wendy Door Chris. Would Jessica Chung Stella Tan Alexandra. Leong Jonathan Wolf Lisa. Chow Eric Kripke Mark George Luke Vanderploeg. A diese Egan Kelly. Prime Julia Longoria. Sindhu Yana summoned on MJ Davis Lynn. Austin Mitchell Sayer. Cavuto Nina took Dan Powell Div Shaw Sydney Harbour Daniel. Gi Met Hans Buteau Robert Jemison Mike Ben Wa. Funke gave her an Asta Chaturvedi. Our theme music is by Jim Bromberg and Ben Lands for of Wunderle. Special thanks to Sandal Nick McCabe. Bouchard warned Jackson. Julia Simon Muhima money nor Keller and Elizabeth Harris. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Borrow. See You on Monday. Between two or cancellations lost creative gigs and shrinking ad revenue the COVID. Nineteen crisis is making it clear that the system supporting creative people is broken patriotic offers a better way we help creators makeup lost revenue and build a more sustainable income source by offering a monthly membership to their fans. Intern fans get access to exclusive community premium contents and the chance to become active participants in the work. They love Checkout Patriotic Dot com now and helped change the way art is valued.