2 Episode results for "Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey"
158 - The Mysterious Death of JonBenet Ramsey
"As a parent I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I can't imagine a a worse way to lose a child and to have that child be murdered could get worse than that. Yes it could what if you were told to. Your child was sexually assaulted before they were murdered. What does that happen to them when they were just six years old? Could it get worse the that of course it can what if they were murdered in your home while you slept peacefully in your bed. What if they were murdered the night after Christmas killed in the basement after another successful for Christmas where everyone got what they wanted and the dream home your family lived in the dream home you bought with the money you made after busting your ass for years launching your own business merging with two other businesses becoming president new company position it for massive buyout making millions along the way? What if your daughter was taken from you just five short years removed from the loss of another other one your daughter's you just recovered as much as one can recover from the first loss you just rebuilt your life after divorce and death spectacularly rebuilt it and and then this happens? Could it get worse than that yes sadly there is almost always room for at least a little bit of worse what if view of the one to find her dead body and then you became one of the prime suspects in her murder and your wife became another and then your nine year old son became the third what if the court quarter public opinion decided that one of you to of you are all of you had to have killed your daughter and then that stigma followed you for the rest of your life and then you're self-made fortune faded away the homes and the boats and more sold to pay for massive legal fees tabloid after tabloid accusing you of murder everywhere you go people looking at you and discussed it doesn't get much worse than that and this is exactly what may have happened to John Bennett Ramsey father of the six-year-old beauty pageant winner Jon Benet Ramsey who was murdered the Ramsey Colorado home in nineteen ninety six despite being publicly exonerated by the district attorney's office as a suspect in his daughter's death years after first being accused jonbenet Albany Ramsey's murder still remains unsolved many still thinker father John had something to do with it. Do I think he did it or had something to do with it. Did his wife do it or I don't know. I really don't my God. This is a confusing one. I felt dizzy doing this research more. You unravel this case. The more complicated gets right when you think you know who did it. A new piece of the puzzle comes along away just obliterates all of your former resolve curious what conclusions you'll come to today. We take a deep dive into the mysterious murder of Jon Benet Ramsey. One of the most infamous unsolved murder cases in American history on another who done it true crime edition of time suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to time suck overstate happy Monday made sacks the content parade continues here ear on time suck a hundred and fifty eight straight weeks of deep dives dives. I've gotten deeper each year just over three years now yeah Ya AH HAIL NIMROD BE GONE LOSE Phoenix Praise bojangles praise Michael McDonald triple lamb Michael Mother fucking McDonalds and thanks for listening because it has been three years we just released a reprint of the very first time suck t for anniversary a little birthday here on the show. The original tea features the original logo so many of you probably have never even seen that logo the Oh gee I edition tea is back now in two colors navy blue and original gray and Isabella three thousand one hundred a hundred percent cotton and for old time sake. It's also made of one hundred percent real baby skin just like the first time I've forgotten we started that dark with our fabric choice yikes oh Mayak my Lanta whoo so check out the time suck shop vice doors easy to find Google is linked to it from the APP subscriptions. Well thank you for all the recent ratings and reviews over nine thousand ratings over twenty three hundred reviews on itunes alone appreciate it so much appreciate it thousands of you who gave my new Hor podcasts I do with with my wife. Lindsey Queen scared to death. Listen this past week at a small tech dilemma. It's on all the usual podcast players now and charting charting on I tunes is big time so Oh man couldn't be happier about that. You can watch me try and scare my wife Lindsey with two tales of allegedly true panel whore on Youtube. I suggest giving it a look this time time round. It's visually visual more stimulating than than you know me sitting here talking to you. A new episode will drop every Tuesday night at the stroke before Midnight Pacific Time apparently saying midnight. It's too confusing. I realize when you say midnight. No one knows which you're talking about so we're it's Tuesday night. The stroke before midnight scared to death. Give her chance hoping I had a blast this past week and Phoenix had to record this before travelling. I'm guessing had a great time getting to see Jimmy Whitman James Patrick Gallo from the fantastic true crime podcast crime sports small town murder those guys know how to put on good shows a plans to hang out with them both and James Lovely Hilarious wife Sarah some. I'm hoping by the time I'm year this I had a great time hanging out. All of them love that crew the Detroit stand up special shows are now both sold out GonNa be a blast. Thank you so much small chance additional tickets. We'll go on sale. The day of depends on some tech stuff depends on if there's extra room in the venue after they've set up all the cameras sometimes there will be sometimes it won't be if there are a few tickets available last minute. I will post about it at at Dan. Cummins comedy on Instagram at Dan Collins Comedy Instagram's will follow Nimrod wills. It's if you want a chance to go to that show tickets are available for this weekend shows in Indianapolis Helium Comedy Club in Tampa Side splitters October tenth thirteenth also to my ten thousand laughs comedy festival show in Minneapolis October nineteenth and then as Portland Oregon Columbus Ohio Denver Colorado Grand Rapids Michigan Tacoma and spokane Washington to finish out two two thousand nine hundred thousand to wrap up the happy murter Dan Komen Dot TV for more tour Info lasting. I keep fucking up once charity website. It's youth on on record dot Org impulse was last month. He was saying the right charity by giving the wrong website so youth on record dot org three thousand dollars this month to Denver's us on record dot Org Click on that site and the EPA description to find out how great they really are. I Linda may be on their podcast. They do a podcast about the good things are doing what I do. My shows in Denver Denver okay time now to move on over to today's colorado-based topic the mysterious murder the very mysterious murder of young beauty queen a Ah a victim. I mean they're always taken too soon but especially this case taking far far too soon Jon benet Ramsey in the story begins a day after Christmas nineteen ninety-six almost twenty three years ago the Ramsey family only had just hosted a lavish successful Christmas party on Christmas Day. The ramseys were John and Patricia Ramsey knows patsy nine year old son Burke Ramsey and their six year old daughter Jon on Benet Ramsey John also had two living children from his first marriage twenty year old John Andrew and twenty-four-year-old Melinda Spending Christmas in one thousand nine hundred sixty with their mother Cindy John's First Wife in Marietta Georgia Giorgi Georgia Giorgi Down in Georgia. Oh Georgia land getting my ticket to Georgie the Ramsey ABC family lives in an affluent area of boulder and huge seven thousand two hundred Forty Square Foot Tudor style dream home at seven four nine Fifteenth Street and the exclusive Swank Lancaster neighborhood of Chappaqua good name good name for an expensive neighbor. It might be Chappaqua Shaniqua. I think yeah I said that's the way better named for a nice neighborhood like toilet nuggets or missing fingernails. That's rough one shirking swing by where you live again missing fingernails he you know what I can't swing doing by. I thought I thought you bought a place in Chappaqua. People named Flint and Chad live in a place called Chappaqua people name shredder and Gumbo Live and missing fingernails fingernails on the Ramsey home cost John five hundred thousand dollars which home wise is like a million or two today maybe more than two million over the next two years patchy remodeled decorated to the tune of an additional seven hundred thousand dollars. They're doing all right in the money department the average price of a home in this neighborhood today according to real estate apps like Trulia and realtor dot com is somewhere between two and three million million the former seven bedroom eight bath Ramsey home is valued just over three million dollars right now built in nineteen twenties exquisitely landscaped large private backyard card has three fireplaces a match takes up the entire top floor of a two story home that also features a large basement level thousand was so nice the Ramsey family had it listed on the Boulder Christmas tour as well as on a regular home tour in boulder when people visited and between fifteen hundred to two thousand guests would visit each year Passi would would take them a would meet him but the door was Jon Benet burke her side each of them wearing perfect little matching sweaters you know that they had to wear to make mama happy and nineteen ninety-six. Jonah just turned fifty three He. He just got an a six figure work bonus days earlier he was married to a forty year old former beauty queen. He was crushing life not only did he and his model Stepford wife tight family have an amazing home in boulder they also stunning summer Home Lake Michigan and the twenty five hundred person picturesque little lake town of charlevoix situated between Lake Lake Michigan and the western end of Lake Show Voi- which drains into Lake Michigan through the short round Lake Pine River Complex in the heart of downtown Charlevoix little summer resort town. It's been that way since the eighteen eighties waterfront home was one thousand seven hundred thousand square feet for bedroom for half baths valued over three hundred thirty thousand dollars at the time time the idea around a million dollars now the ramseys also maintain a third residents in Atlanta Georgia where they lived before moving to boulder drove luxury cars had a boats John had two separate it private planes they use pie license to fly around in they had big parties they would throw some of which would cost upwards of thirty thousand dollars and have actors performing part. I mean crushing rushing it. especially for Bolder Boulder Colorado still didn't even have one hundred thousand people in Nineteen. ninety-six only has one hundred ten thousand now. The Metro area has around three hundred douses mostly known as the home of Colorado's biggest university. The University of Colorado the buffaloes and the ramseys were kind of a big deal in boulder. Now you're GONNA have less members of the upper crust in a place like boulder then you're going to have some place at San Francisco or Manhattan. They were rich attractive had two well behaved beautiful kids burke was shy and quiet little Jon Benet was the exact exact opposite by the age of six already one America's Royal Miss Little Miss Charlevoix Little Miss Colorado Colorado State all-star kids covergirl the crown of national tiny miss beauty and more watch videos love singing and dancing in public or tiny body exuded charisma choose little star. Her Dad was one of the city's rising business stars her mom moms want towns premier socialites and her brother well yeah he was there to nine and cute and he smiled for all the family photos. If you live anywhere near the time Amazon Benes short life you'll probably remember you know some of Genie's beauty pageant pictures on the covers of almost every grocery store tabloid there week after week month after month year after year following her death. I still see her face at the grocery store. She's on the cover. Something just a few weeks ago some tabloid and it's been over twenty years since her death. Her death fascinated fascinated America at a level comparable to Nicole Simpson or Caley Anthony actually more Nicole's probable killer. OJ Simpson Keighley's probable killer Casey. Anthony Don sucks on both of them. They got more media attention than Jon Benet Murder Suspect John Patricia Burke Ramsey and others but as a homicide victim I I can't think of literally anyone who has got the same level of media exposure as Jon Benet Ramsey not even Natalie Holloway who infamously disappear almost a decade later in Aruba. Why did her case receive so much? Coverage will partially because she was a little beauty pageant winner. Let's be honest America Covets beautiful creatures more than those deemed not not as attractive beautiful people to covers more magazines and tabloids than the ugly people alive or dead and they always will also I think in in my lifetime at least because of a also because her family was wealthy. Americans are endlessly fascinated by opulence those who lives so many of us only dream about no one would give of to Fox about the car crashes if they were pouring ugly I mean wealth is a big part of the American dream. Is it not when you hear examples of people making it never tell us about let them live modestly barely paying bills being great parents being heavily involved in their community. You know doing hands on charity work. No it's tails. The people coming from nothing ended up richest faulk back then. Maybe doing some good with that money money. We love money here in America. I love my a little of freedom it can give you I get it and also part of the fascination surrounding the murder murder of Jon Benet has to do with children's beauty pageants. How could it not back in nineteen ninety six over a decade before shows like the at best creepy and at worst softcore or pedophile porn toddlers and Tiaras and the so bad? I wondered if it was a possible sign of an impending apocalypse. The first time I heard about it here comes honey boo boo very few people even a new these pageants existed scene is sixty seen a six year old girl decked out and make up and outfits that would seem you know possibly overly sexual worn by a sixteen year old girl captured the public's attention. It became fascinated because it's so what the fuck is going on here confusing. Why is this happening who dresses or kindergarten like that? Why was your mom's so into her being a model at such a young age and I mean seriously who does that who dresses up their six year old and bright red lipstick teases out their hair puts tons of foundation Mascara scare an island or on the face addressing essentially a mini skirt and cowboy boots and tight tank top Nazar dancing singing for an audience grownups fucking weird it also takes glamor shots were she's posing obviously sexualize ways like a photographer asked my eleven year old daughter to pose in similar ways as I've seen after research Jon benet reposing in Glamour shots? I would have a little what the fuck are you doing bud conversation with guy. Tell him he's leave right now unless he wants his camera and possibly parts of his perverted body a broken broken. All my hack hack gets me fired up but their parents have anything to do with a murder. Maybe maybe not will occur in both directions basic ecstatic on child murder lean towards the likelihood that Jon Benet was killed by someone within her own family but the brutality of the crime points towards someone outside inside the home. It's crazy case and it only gets crazy. The more you look at it spawned dozens of books documentaries theories that range from a simple cover by rich parents to Satanic Child Porn rings things of course to John Being Alive today and performing his pop star Katy Perry seriously. That's a that's a conspiracy not just some of my tomfoolery and yes we will for sure have an idiot to the Internet segment today before we dive into a time line expiration in this case. Let's take a quick look context start with Kitty pageant kosher then quick little bio for each member of the Boulder Ramsey household child pageantry in America consists of about two hundred and fifty thousand children who compete in around five thousand pageants nationwide nationwide each year makes almost fourteen paget's for kids a day own my heck what the fudge stink in Gali Dead Nabet of that disturbs me because so many straight dudes are biologically hardwired to want to see women naked more than we want to see food on our table or the sun keep coming up. We already have more than enough sexualization in society. Here's some porn stats. I've found porn sites attract more visitors each month and Amazon and Netflix combined thirty percent of all Internet content is Porn fifty-six percent of divorces involve one spouse having an obsessive interest in online porn twenty percent of all mobile web searches are porn the world in general already struggles with giving women more than just a sexual identity because most porn is negative women so why the fuck would any parent in the right mind WanNa push their daughter into already been physically objectified when she's only six years old. I know that's not how they see it but that is how it's perceived creeps. I she's going to have to deal with that. Shit soon enough. Give her a few years to enjoy your childhood. I stutter letter fart and fucking Pinault's in shops smell NYC fucking hot garbage no dirt on her face and scraped up knees because she tried doing some sick as trick on her fucking bike letter letters be a kid but digress back to beauty pageants. The beauty pageants for adult women have existed in one form or another for centuries for example Medieval Brits celebrated May Day by having a little who looks the hottest in the long form thin bitten kind of our form Haydn. I guess more poofy White Dress Show and picking a May queen pageants got going in America in the Mid Nineteenth Century famous circus entrepreneur or businessmen all around exploitation machine. Hopefully Future Suck p.t barnum organized America's First Beauty Pageant for adult women in eighteen fifty four and it did not go well. The public protested parading women out in front of men in judging them on their looks was immoral indecent. It caused quite to kerfluffle instead of giving up on the whole idea of judge human beings made sack solely on their physical attractiveness borrowing thought well if they won't let me exploit women what if I could explore some babies and the very next year eighteen fifty-five a national contest barnum orchestrated called the national baby show attracted one hundred and forty-three child contestants and sixty one thousand viewers and then baby parades soon became all the rage around the country in the coming decades and there are still baby pageants today quick Google search to to sunburst beauty dot com Jon Jon Benet did some sunburst beauty pageants and they have competitions for girls from the age of just popped out a mom's baby whole to the age of twenty seven and that's it. That's it nothing for those twenty eight and up up. I guess I guess twenty eight is is ancient in the Padua just boo get that twenty eight year old office stage we came here. See some heart kids Ed's if you go to chowder baby patch and by the way I highly encourage you to use the word hot as much as possible in sexy. I don't WanNa do show by himself wearing aviator. VR Sunglasses indoors and having his hands in his pockets all the time standing in the back of the room. Just yelling shit like yeah knows kids. Don't hothouse babies talking about route say sexy hot near Saint Somebody sexy kids one hotel hot sexy babies then I want that they can stop having fucking weird pageants. That'll fuck it. Shut it down. An an expert on baby contests explained that many of these baby pageants babies have been historically in the early one stripped naked and judged by physicians according to a meticulous point system like the Houston cattle judging as what the nineteenth century beauty pageants works. That's cool cool yeah. It's not fucked up at all. Hey Lady come grab your degrade baby. Get the hell out of here where scarce him. It's a beauty pageant not an audition for Halloween Halloween House a horse once you take your Saka fussily sneak out the back they aren't you scared are hot sexy. Baby's cyber baby conscious went on hiatus in the nineteen eighteen fifties as a baby parades. Why 'cause people finally decided is pretty fucked up? Start Great Mates acts on their physical appearance when they're still in diapers. JK They didn't care about that at all. kids started getting polio and events where large groups of random children would needlessly congregate in public starting to seem like a like a dumb idea polo another various communicable diseases pre vaccine days. Luckily the polio vaccine became widely available in the late fifties and wouldn't you know it by nine hundred sixty one youth America were healthy enough to once again. Participate Peyton pageants nine hundred sixty one America's first official child beauty pageant got going yeah marshalls March kids on the stage palisades amusement park in Palisades. All Saints New Jersey started hold a weekly contest the summer from nineteen sixty one thousand nine hundred seventy one called Little Miss America the contest name was meant to evoke the adult Miss America pageant and which have been running since one thousand nine hundred eighty one but actually was not affiliated with it and Little Miss America was big hit drew roughly six thousand competitors each week and I'm guessing at least twice that many pitfalls the massive success little Miss American pageants did not go unnoticed by the people who like to make money and or work with with hot kids are regional creepy. The regional child beauty pageants began to spring up unlike little Miss America which is free to enter hadn't dress requirements for talent competition new competitions mimicked adult pageants more offering offering contestants the chance to compete in categories like talent and party wear these pageants developed into various children pageants that we know and hey today the worst one I found. Did you know that there is now an annual pageant Las Vegas for eight to thirteen girls called L. H. hoedown Yup the little Miss Hustler hoedown one of the categories pole fitness because of all the poll all finished classes nine year olds g-strings doing stripper moves in front of middle aged dudes judges and audience primarily men who are allowed to take as many pictures as they want as long as flash turned off. That's fine just no flash. That's the only rule kid's crotch shots that's fine. No flash also tease competition with the kids dance on a catwalk and take off after close they go all the way down to their underwear and because their kids it's not illegal for them to go topless so they can even take off their tops and they do and they end up bare-chested in front of these fucking dudes is gross and if you don't believe that it's real go ahead and check it out for yourself. Go to the website it's. WWW dot get the fuck out of here dot no not yet. None of that stuff is happening yet. Hopefully never will. I hope you're hope your outrage for a moment there as you heard all of that and you didn't think it was a big deal. I want you to focus less on podcasts to focus a lot more in therapy. If you'RE FUCKING WE'RE GONNA get my ticket out. She gives them up. Would you get some real help and pageants as bad as all that now. Oh I guess I know I'm sure a lot of people run in them have a completely different. Look at it but I do look at it like you're just like advertising your kid head for fucking pedophile. Would you dress them up enclosed it. I don't know how some of these people rationalize them not being sexually provocative. I mean it's it really and and I'm not approved by swear to God. A lot of these outfits have been row was wearing them at sixteen. I'm like whoa where where are you going. You're going to school no nightclub. Okay another round with a little bit of knowledge about the Kiddie Porn. I mean Kitty paget world. Let's take a look at the Ramseys to understand the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey. We first have to understand the FAM- the start it was Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey was born on August sixth nineteen ninety in land. Georgia should be just barely twenty nine years old today if she was still alive so oh crazy she would die so young if she died today she's still young. She died over twenty years ago. She was a daughter a beauty queen. The niece of another beauty queen to daughter of patchy in Jon Jon Benet was named after a feminine version of her father's first and middle names John Bennett also given her mother's name as a Middle Name Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey and these people the little little vein. I feel like that's always we never understood that the need to put your name in the name of your kids. I must make another media understandably Dan neither one of my kids have names that have anything to do with my first name or middle name which is Brent. Neither one of my kids are named for anyone of my family but but I guess they do have my last name what you don't want to be honest alike but if it was culturally normal to give kids different last names I wouldn't care to me research in his it felt like Patricia wanted to like clone herself right. Her daughter has has renamed Middle Name and said she did pageants. She makes her daughter do pageants seems hyper hyper focused on her daughter. Daughter's seemed like more like a doll her the human being you know I mean clearly you're getting pushed hard that direction. We do this stuff at the age like four. I think even younger three four five I mean she's a pageant girl raised by mom and her life revolved Aldrin Rehearsals costumes get made it pretty and competing not doing typical kids stuff. It's like she was more like a show dog or show. Ponies in a human being jonbenet Albany was youngest the two children at least on her mother's side her brother Burke nine. The time for murder was three years older by age six Jon Benet had already won multiple national pageant titles. Thanks thanks store bouncy blonde hair naturally poise smile glittery costumes Tenet the resume of a girl who only lived for less than six and a half years on this planet. This is a partial list Colorado Ratto State all star kids patching able ninety four little Miss Charlevoix July ninety four Miss Colorado Sunburst Summers one October ninety five five America's Royale Tiny Miss Division title July Ninety six America's Royale Miss Colorado Dream Queen July Ninety six. I guess it's the same one sunburst national pageants second-place August Ninety six Colorado Little Miss Christmas December seventeenth ninety-six Colorado's all-stars Christmas pageant metal for talent talent is a few days before she died December twenty second ninety-six and unfortunately there's not a lot else to say when it comes to Johnny's life since it was very short on the surface she seemed outgoing and confident was giving a plush and comfortable life and one documentary. I saw her room or bedroom and chateauroux bathroom should her own Christmas Christmas tree right before the holidays giant virtually life-size Santhal on this little kind of a couch she had in a room she was given wherever she wants tons and tons of toys. He's she seemed to be the center of her parents. Worlds very very privileged childhood before such a tragic end. I know a lot of Comedians in New York who would love to live in an apartment the size of Jon Benet old bedroom it also love to be able to furnish that apart with the same budget that was clearly used to furnish her room now more on her parents starting with her father John John Bennett Ramsay born December seventh nineteen forty three Lincoln Nebraska Ramsey moved with his family to Oklahoma Michigan at the age of fourteen his father Jay was a decorated World War Two coyote before becoming a director of the Michigan Aeronautics Commission as a teenager Ramsey competed in cross country played the band nurtured a love of aviation he inherited from his father he joined. ROTC at Michigan State University where he also met his first wife Lucinda Cindy Lou posh the the Cindy Lou the to college sweethearts were married buried in one thousand nine hundred sixty six moved the Philippines or Ramsey spent two years as navy pilot shortly after they returned to Michigan Cindy gave birth to their first daughter Elizabeth July of sixty nine Ramsey earned a master's degree in marketing from Michigan State and seventy one got a job in Michigan couple header their second child another daughter Melinda in seventy two after working locally really for two years John accepted in Atlanta sales job with an Electronics Engineering Company and seventy three before eventually striking out on his own. He has wife had their third child. John Andrew Nine hundred seventy six before divorcing in nineteen seventy eight and in the summer of seventy nine thirty five year old John met twenty two year old nine thousand nine hundred seventy seven Miss Virginia Patricia and Paul Rebounding with a with a model thirteen years younger. I'm sure his ex Cindy love that. I think it was I have in my notes miss for maybe West Virginia. It's not it's not a crucial detail to this narrative. It may be nineteen seventy seven West Miss West Virginia because that is where she grew up on anyway. yeah sure Cindy love that I'm sure she was thrilled to drop her kids off with an ex husband in his hot young model wife on November Fifteenth Nineteen Eighty Jonah Patricia and go bypass has he got married that we continue to live in Atlanta John's Ex and apparently they did get along pretty well for the next six years. They fucked so so much you know they he did. John didn't marry a young model mostly for conversation. I mean let's be honest he didn't he didn't January twenty seven thousand seventy seven Patricia gave birth to Son Burke John's fourth child and second son Nineteen eighty-seven Ramsey also founded a tech firm called advanced products group in Roswell suburb of Atlanta business boomed named a year later nine hundred eighty nine two years later excuse me nineteen eighty-nine advanced products merged with CAD CAD SOURCES INC of Piscataway Okay New Jersey and Cad Distributors Inc.. Of Boulder Colorado to form access graphics a Computer Distribution Distribution Corporation that would be headquartered in Bowler her access graphics was a business to business wholesaler buying computer systems for manufacturers then reselling them to other companies talk a little more about it in detail but I don't WanNa put everyone to sleep. They made a lot of money to inborn shit by Nineteen ninety-six the year of Jon benet murder the company would employ about six hundred techies worldwide by about three hundred and fifty those people would work at the boulder headquarters. I then on August Sixth Nineteen Ninety John and Patsy had the little girl Mrs Ramsay had dreamed of Jon Benet in Atlanta John Third Daughter Patsies I and within a year of Jon Benet Birth Nineteen Ninety one the family moved to boulder so John Run the growing company he was president and CEO of be present at the headquarters also ninety one forty seven year old John Sells access graphics is to Lockheed Martin in American Global Aerospace Defense Security and Advanced Technologies Company major part of the Military Industrial Complex luminosity ocoee kept him on to run the company life going very well his company's growing he's making stacks and stacks of cash his ex-wife amicable. He sees kids often then in January of ninety two tragedy strikes John's oldest daughter Elizabeth die suddenly in a tragic car accident in Chicago at the twenty two less than eighteen months after the birth of Jon Benet for the next four years following Elizabeth's death life would spare John any additional hardships. John returned to work quickly following his daughter's death continued to grow his company Johns on I two kids remained healthy or or as most read yes I mean healthy and he travel to Atlanta's often you see them in his family. In Boulder thrived burke was doing well in grade eight school. Jon Benet was rocking. The pageant seen patchy stayed at home ran the family social life. John worked lots of hours continuing to make a lot of money by nineteen ninety-six. The families net worth was estimated at six six point four million dollars nineteen ninety-six money crushing it by nine hundred six John also two planes and he flew himself three homes beginning to negotiate another buyout for his company. General Electric was getting ready to buy access graphics from Lockheed Martin for Cash Huguette an untold amount of money in that sale. WHO's rich rich look like he's going to be wealthy soon? Personality wise you describe by friends is exceedingly quiet calm and collected according to family friends John Murdering anyone especially as daughter fitter age. you know one of the many theories proposed highly unlikely. He'll never seem to lose his temper about money. Check this out. This is so sad to me. The Daily Really Camera Boulder's newspaper published article about John's business success just five days before Jon Benet murder on December Twenty First Nineteen ninety-six the headline headline read access celebrates one billion dollar mark. There's a picture of John Sitting at his desk looking so happy so proud and in less than a week is live completely. Unravel photos like that weird me out right. We're you know obviously with time elapsing. You know there's something really bad happened not long after that photo but in that photo of the person being photographed has no fucking idea right in this particular photo life was going so so well and then we know man just days later everything went to shit man. You can drive easily drive yourself insane thinking about things like data. You know how he was supposed creeped me out that you know because I think about that for me. Well we all do we personalize the stuff Michael. Shit things are going well now. Today's a great day for me. What's GonNa Happen Tomorrow the day after that? I think it's good remind yourself if you spiral on that also can go a lot better and most of the time the overwhelming majority of the time things don't fall apart tomorrow okay anyway. Here's a little excerpt from that article Michael When boulder-based Computer Distributor Access Graphics Inc.. Pass to one billion dollar mark in Nineteen ninety-six revenues. It tossed a luncheon party at the Hotel Bowl Dorado on Friday Friday. A dixieland jazz ban made the rounds at access boulder offices Friday morning to announce the celebration later played at the Ball Dorado John Ramsey president of access graphics thanked about three unemployed at the gathering told him he couldn't have happened without them. The one billion dollars in sales is about twenty five percent increase over the eight hundred million the company posted last year and Ramsey foresees continued growth again future is looking bright sky was looking blue who five days for our gets killed on around the twenty first lucky mart also gave Johnny Christmas bonus of one hundred eighteen thousand dollars Papa Ramsey rich even-tempered super successful computer guy in charge of a growing corporation a business business star in boulder making somewhere between Oh my heck. That's a lot of Gosh darn money and what the fudge what can you even by with old effort flips sake any had hot wife thirteen years younger than him and bad not bad now. Let's meet his second wife. Patricia an Ramsey called Patsy by your friends and family born December twenty ninth nineteen fifty six and the tiny tiny four hundred and fifty person town of Gilbert West Virginia Gilbert is just fourteen miles from the Hatfield cemetery of the Hatfield McCoy feud fame folk full cast ah few miles from where the hatfields used to fight the mccoys and the West Virginia Kentucky border. I would be the oldest of three girls born to Donald Nedra Apo- NEDRA CAIXA. It's rough name not a sexy name address. Listen No word about mom and NEDRA compete in any pageants probably wasn't allowed to sign up that name. I am Nedra here Santa for the BBC now. No you're not now closed. We just close right now just right now when you walked up when we when we heard that your name is lady net we have no lady net rule here at the pageant's according to Washington Post articles young girl. Mrs Ramsay Developed Reputation Listen. It's been a straight Arrow leader who studied hard enjoy performing shoes I like to do drama frequently thought others I high school. Mrs Ramsay discovered her love of of beauty pageants. Excuse me becoming runner up first runner up in the Miss Teenage West Virginia and here we go crazy. She began competing for the ultimate crowd of Miss America a few years later West Virginia University where she belonged to the Alpha Z. Delta Sorority. She stopped thinking of others first and stop talking ugly people altogether. I don't know if that to be true. Actually she was runner up in two preliminary competitions before winning the most Miss West Virginia tidal okay so was West Virginia there we go as a sophomore nineteen seventy seven at the national national pageants. She took home a talent award and two thousand dollars scholarship for younger sister. Pamela was also crowned Miss West Virginia nineteen eighty the pause dominate Nedra his daughters look fucking little lady nets offspring crushing those beauty pageants that was the first time instead of sisters won the state title before that nineteen seventy nine she graduated -aduated with a degree in journalism marketing move to Atlanta where mutual friends quickly introduce dirty John Ramsey and then she would marry him the next year things moved fast passy was a southern southern bell and a socialite made sure that both John Daughters from his first marriage were given lavish birthday parties. She did seem like a good step. Mom come from Gilbert which is pretty damn podunk. She must've loved being a young rich socialite. Living in Hotlanta she became involved in numerous charities like some lady called society. Ta Eh she was also dedicated voluntee- women's Junior League Patricia was also way endure daughters. Pageant career was total pageant mom. It was her thing she loved loved dressing Jon Benet up doing her hair put her clothes hiring coaches talking other pageant moms which again makes me feel like she thought of Jon Benet more is more of a toy doll than daughter. She was living breathing Barbie. She loved her but still weird to me. Neighbor would later recall at one time. Jon Benet came downstairs as Patsy was having a conversation with neighbor another neighbor. The neighbor shocked because Jon benet suddenly had bleached blond hair the last time the neighbor had seen her her hair was clear light brown when this neighbor ask patchy about it she said just from the sun in Michigan. NOPE Patsy was dying or daughter's hair from the time. Johnny was five years old getting that hair dyed blonde. 'cause you gotta be prettier. Who's GonNa love you if you're not pretty nineteen? Ninety-three repassy was diagnosed with ovarian cancer what was in remission by nineteen ninety-five even rich people can get sick sad reminder that you can't get to a place in life where you're just insulated from anything bad happening to you. That's kind of this story to maybe that's another reason the story fascinated and continues to fast indigent republic to remind you that no matter how much Astra kicking a life life can still mother fuck fuck you happy thought my my heck my heck. I apologies for the language and I was quite dark. Now talking about patches I shall jonbenet's older brother Burke Mark Burke Hamilton Ramsey. That's real name Beck Hamilton Ramsey born on January twenty seventh nineteen eighty-seven in Atlanta Georgia some trumpets went off. He's born. I present you Hamilton Ramsey pump Barabara. We don't know a ton about him other than he wasn't cute enough to compete and little boy pageants so mom on probably loved him less. I mean that's how it works right right. I actually do think that he was the least favourite and jealousy may have fueled an accidental murder after childhood of Wealth Burke Ramsey his life starting to chaos for years after his sister's murder partly because at nine he was a murder suspect. The subsequent extensive publicity of his sister's murder was reportedly caddick nightmare burke of course it was. I watched an interview with his dad. John conducted years after Jonbenet's murder where he said that immediately after the murder they pulled burke from school for well made sure to limit his exposure data Paparazzi and just you know socialization general keep away from nosy neighbors prion is tried hard to protect him from the media circus. You know that you quickly enveloped them when they became mm suspects and then the first time you let her go to the grocery store. After his sister's death months later he sees a tabloid cover with his sister's picture on it and a headline accusing him of murdering in her he was devastated of course he was a burks relationship with his sister was less than perfect as many sibling relationships are to be fair he he may He may have had a little more anger towards his little sister than than some big brother's family friend photographer Judith Miller would later say that Patchy told her burke had actually actually struck Jon Benet in the faced with golf club year and a half prior to murder hard enough for her to need stitches. She gives small cosmetic procedure from the plastic surgeon to avoid scarring. Mama can't have a BUFFA Barbie. Doll you gotta get that little face ready for the camera. Who's GonNa Review Birkin? The families that it was an accident. Maybe it was but later patsy would try and change the dates attach. This story saying the burke was five or six years old when he did. It was actually seven so let's just odd detail. Maybe she forgot. Maybe not a big deal or maybe burke you know hated. Sister was getting increasingly increasingly violent towards her dudas Philip Ramsey friend for more than ten years local photographer said this about the golf club incident many years later. I think burke had a bad temper. It's like a chip chip on his shoulder. He had hit Jon Benet before the murder. I would have to say it was probably a year and a half they were playing in the yard and apparently he hit her with the Gulf right here points the area under her eye. She patsy said the kids were playing burke lost his temper and hitter with a golf club. Could he lost his temper again a hitter with something else and killed her nineteen ninety-six and could the family. I believe tried to stage another crime scene or make a different type of crime state crimes to make it look like an intruder did it that is a popular theory also former New York City prosecutor retired. FBI Supervisory Special Agent and profiler Jim Clemente and former new Scotland Yard criminal behavioral analysis Lower Richards who examined the Jon Benet case for two thousand six six teen two thousand sixteen CBS Docu series discovered during their investigation that apparently burke had committed what they called some scatalogical infractions as a child scatalogical infractions meaning that spread feces his own around the ramseys bathroom and even around a Jonbenet's bedroom. Eh drew time or two peanut butter showbiz Hollywood spreading his shit on the walls of sister's room ex. Oh my heck that seems pretty hateful my little sister Donna Nordea shit out of me all the time growing up but never hit in the face with blunt instrument hard enough to send her to the doctor and I definitely didn't literally or didn't smear literal shit on the walls of a room. That's a some next level anger. The same investigators also watched the video burke with therapist shortly after his sister's death and they were bothered by how just a relaxed he was when he was asked if he was worried about a killer her sister's killer specifically coming for him and he wasn't worried at all. He said like I'm just the life he's very calm and you know why would he be worried about a killer coming for him. If he was the killer we'll get ahead of myself. We'll talk about who may have killed Jon Benet and why soon enough enough and in detail overall burks to be pretty well behaved kid when he wasn't whacking system to face with the golf club or wiping his shit on the walls bedroom and now that we know a little bit about the family wait. Let's get into today's timeline starting just a few days before jonbenet's murder right after a word from today's for sponsor. Today's Times is brought to you by by Steph Cox Gurvey's. You might be a killer world tour. Get your tickets now. 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I love how Mike Quip is no bigger than non battery power toothbrush to that's one of my favorite things it takes up no extra space face this regular toothbrush that will not do nearly as good a job no extra space in my already crowded luggage and it gets chompers so much wider good job equipped scientists. I imagine the scientists have teeth is. Why does their lab coach? I love weapon is perfect getting back into a new clean teeth routine. It's easy to just twenty five bucks and if you go to go to get quip dot com slash time suck right now you can get your first refill pack for free free. That's your first refill pack free at G. E. T. Q. U. I. P. Dot com slash time. Suck get quipped meets axe Lincoln the episode description Tom Himself Timeline right now. Shrapnel on those boots soldier were marching down time soccer time line in December twenty second nineteen ninety-six Jon Benet appeared relaxed beauty pageant and her family put out their annual Christmas letter. It ended with Jon Benet is enjoying her first year in real school kindergarten in the core knowledge program is fast pace and five full days a week doc. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named America's Royale tiny missed last summer and it's Colorado's little miss this Christmas. Her teacher says she's still going. She'll never have trouble delivering an oral book report Merry Christmas and much love the ramseys earlier. They wrote a less flattering message about their son Burke Christmas letter. Writing Burke is doing very well. He hasn't hit anyone with a golf club all year and he is barely smeared his feces on anything he wiped got a few Jon benet dolls and dollhouse with tiniest bit of poop and may have rubbed a little bit on our pillows around Thanksgiving but that's it. We're super proud of him. I know they had nice things to burqas well. On December twenty third the Ramseys hosted a Christmas party where approximately thirty guests attended including former journalism professor bill mcreynolds who played Santa Claus is poor bastard when Beena suspect and all of this the suspect. I feel these stories for in some ways the next day Christmas Eve was a busy day for the Ramsey Jesus. Well an article appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera regarding the success of the Ramsey Christmas party the day before it's been a slow news day according to various reports Jon Benet played her friend. Dan Meghan Kostanic House that day Ramseys also attended the twilight service that night at Saint John's Episcopal Church in Boulder by nine PM. The kids have been sent to gather gifts that were stashed can hardly used basement room and John Ramsey retrieved a brand new silver girls by extorting neighbor Joe Barnhill garage place under the Christmas tree for Jon Benet then on Christmas Day nineteen ninety-six Jon Benet receiver bike and other guests of course she was pumped and I imagine Patsy you know immediately talked about how she had to be very careful. Always wear a helmet now by elbow pads kneepads risk writing loves God forbid. She crashed and skinny. Give some sort of scar. What will the judges thank? You won't be pretty around noon. Christmas the John left for the airfield to check on one of his planes return between two and three PM around five or six. PM Ramsey's Leifer Christmas party at fleet and Priscilla Whites home home. It was reported that nothing out of the ordinary happened to this party fleet would soon become another suspect in the murder. Many many suspects also has the most stereotypical rich white guy named history fleet white and of course his wife is named Priscilla. A guy named fleet doesn't marry a NEDRA. No Lady neds fro fleet anywhere in the drive home from the party champagne brother Burke fell asleep in the car the Ramsey before heading home dropped gifts offset Stewart Rocky Walker's house and then Glennon Susan Stein's homes so many rich white people stewart and fleet surprised. We haven't met an archibald born arriving home. Jonah put Johnny bed played a game with burke before burke went to bed Jon Benet and as last seen alive around ten PM lane safely asleep in her bed lying save John Apache went to bed would later claim they were never awakened during the night such a nightmare if true the next morning around midnight neighbor Scott Gibbons look kitchen window. It's Ramsey residents observe the upper the kitchen lights were on and dimmed low does mean an intruder was in the house would an intruder turn on the lights if they were. I doubt it it means someone from the Ramsey. Household was still awake. Nobody said they were more likely though so for a snack still wanna down for the day thinking about a cover up a murder a to another neighbor Melody Stan allegedly really here's a scream from within the ramseys home her husband and reportedly here's the sound of metal on concrete sometime after the scream years later melody would backtrack on that statement stating that she actually heard the noise two nights prior. If at all memory such a funny thing seems to be the most reliable right when you're closest to the event time Weiss closer into the incident. You're trying to call recall which just makes sense like if something happened you a few hours ago and you had to give a police report about an hour from now. Don't you think that your report is going to be more accurate accurate then if you had to describe what happened ten years from now that's a big problem with this investigation. People say one thing years later say another yeah we've learned about false memory syndrome multiple times sir on the on the suck memory very very tricky thing things we think can be so real can be completely made up our heads the morning of December twenty six the family gets up at five thirty. Am they were supposed to fly to Charlevoix Michigan for the little family vacation at the one of the other homes while Mr Ramsey shower Mrs Ramsay put back on the same outfit she had on on the night before reapplied or makeup. That's what she say. Find us a bit odd for lady who liked to show how together put together. She was but we're gonNA advocation so maybe she was in vacation. Mode and just didn't care does seem suspicious if you think she could have been one of the ones that did it or did it. I found a few reports said Patsy Ramsey also the second floor of her home to rinse out a pair of Jeans Jumpsuit Pajamas. She apparently soiled the night before then went downstairs to the kitchen to make coffee many have speculated that anger anger over Jon Benet continual bedding led to patches role in an accidental murder and then intentional cover up around five forty five. Am Mrs Ramsay heads downstairs reports finding finding a two and a half page note on a back staircase in the house. Patsy says she only initially read a bit of the notes regime kidnapped with safe and unharmed. The kidnappers wanted one hundred eighteen thousand dollars in cash more this crazy no in a bit upon reading part of that note patsy reportedly immediately screened proceeded to check Japanese Room. She found it to the empty ever hear Mrs Ramsay Scream. Mr Ramsey ran downstairs met Mrs Ramsay in the Stairwell together. They checked on their son who appear to be sleep his room Mr Ramsey then went downstairs to read the ransom note will Mrs Ramsay immediately called Police Patsy dials nine one one at five fifty two a m. She's understandably. Hysterical doesn't answer the operator's raiders questions very well. Here's the short transcript of this nine. One one call patsy Ramsey starts with police. What's going on Ma'am seven five five fifteen th st what's going on there? Ma'am we have a kidnapping hurry. Please explain to me what's going on. Okay there we have there's a note left our daughter's gone a note was left and your daughter's gone yes. How old is your daughter? She six six years old. She's blonde six years old. She just one Colorado Little Miss Christmas on December seventeenth. She got a medal for talent in the Colorado All star Christmas pageant just four days. Please help. We have a Michigan Pageant Day. You have to help me find. We have a hair bleach appointment tomorrow. Aw It's really hard to reschedule with Georgio please. We have rhythm worked over the choreographers meeting at noon to me. Sorry that's progress aggressive but I had to break it up. I knew going in that was tasteless but I felt compelled to continue a I'll show myself out myself out all all paths. He actually said it was six years old. She's blonde back back to the real transcript all right. How long ago was this? I just got the note my daughter's gone. Does it say who took Kerr. What does it say who took her? No I don't know there's there's a ransom note here. It's a ransom note it says sp victory please okay. What's your name? Are you patsy Ramsey. I'm the mother Oh my God please okay. I'm sending an officer over okay please. Do you know how long she's been gone. No I don't please. We just got up. She's not here. Oh my God. Please okay. Please send somebody I am honey. Please take a deep breath. Hurry Hurry Hurry Pazzi. Ah Pazzi Pazzi Pazzi patchy hangs up the phone which many forensic psychologist question when your situation like that when your daughter has just been take it. You don't know who's in the house you other members. Your family are still endanger. The phone is your lifeline to the outside world. Why would you hang it up? However to play devil's advocate everyone handles tragedy and stress differently? If you're panicking who knows what you're GonNa do also we actually had a couple of law enforcement friends about nine one one hangups and they said it happens all the time but check out this very very interesting twists on the hangup patchy puts down the phone because she thinks she's hung up the phone but it didn't hang up all the way the operator can still hear vaguely what's going on. No one is quite sure what happens after this because the tape is very fuzzy but it's been the subject of a lot of investigation by everyone from the FBI to the Secret Service the Boulder Police Department later send this tape to a company called the Aerospace Corporation which then analyzed it was super sophisticated sound enhancement equipment aerospace never releases its findings the Jon Benet case is still open technically in boulder so they still won't release it but the national enquirer supposedly got a hold of this audio footage and leaked it in two thousand and three and I know I I know it's a national enquirer just about the least reliable news alad in the world not quite as bad as the weekly world news entails a Batboy but not good however boulder's olders daily camera also reported on your hands audio right when the enquirer leaked it and reported quote. The general content of the transcript in the supermarket tabloid is accurate according to sources familiar with the investigation so I think it's definitely worth sharing this. Here's a transcript of what may have been said after patsy thought should hung up the phone on Patsy can then be heard Saint Helen. She's helped me Jesus then in the distance. There's another voice thought to be jonbenet's brother Burke. This is very important. This voice has pleased. What do I do and then John Ramsey? We think can be heard saying sharply to were not speaking to you and then Patty says helped me Jesus help me Jesus then she may have also said it's very tricky to properly a decipher this even for the audio experts but she may also said what did you do help me. Jesus seizes then more clearly burke can be heard saying what did you find. This doesn't prove anything about the actual murders but the Ramsey would later tell the police that burke was asleep leap the entire time if they're lying about that why furthermore although the operator couldn't tell what they were saying the time without enhanced audio she would later report port the tone dramatically changed when patsy thought the phone hung up Patsy was no longer hysterically babbling talking quietly while John spoke clearly and deliberately and Burke didn't seem scared or worried in a recent CBS documentary the case of Jon Benet Ramsey does operate says it sounded rehearsed and she wished initial lead investigators had heard her side of the story very interesting before we knew the time this case. Let's look further into this ransom note. It's very ought it may be the most important clue in this whole case for the sake of being thorough but I'm gonna read the whole thing Mr Ramsey listen carefully. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction what small vaction no party believed for a second. That's true two sentences in and this feels Monica Nigerian e mail scam that does a real ransom note now just like some bullshit like we transfer can much money's into account. Please praise God. I have no time much of due to illness. Bank contact cannot take needed transferred. Could you help out of goodness hearts and give us bank info for us too much funds to you if you could wire just small amount of one thousand dollars. US To us to authorized transfer we feel trust to are you one million dollar knowing you are good person person of God the real note we do respect your business but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want to see her now if you want her to see nineteen ninety-seven you must follow our instructions to the letter you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account one hundred a one hundred thousand we'll be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand and twenty bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attach Jay to the bank when you get home you put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery the delivery every will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence it's an earlier delivery pickup of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied. Her remains for proper burial. Will the two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so advise you not to provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as the police ace. FBI ET CETERA will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. If you alert bank stories she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies you will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found she dies author should've led with any of those last reasons skipped the first stray dog part weird tonal shift. I Open a nonsensical bill and then go you know very realistic if we catch you whittling a small tugboat out of Balsa Wood by seashore to carry handwritten note placed in Ziplock Sandwich bag for it not to get wet and put it out to see perhaps one legged pirate to find and try and kill us with cutler sort or antique ship cannon. She dies also don't call police make sure bills or unmarked nothing bigger than a fifty. Don't leave home. 'til all financial arrangements have made or having back to the real not now you can try to deceive us but be warn that we are familiar with law enforcement counter measures and tactics you standing ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter. If you try to outsmart US follow our instructions and you stand a hundred percent chance of getting her back you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're not the only fat c-h-a-d around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us. John used that good southern common sense of yours is up to you now. John Victory Victory S. B. T. C. Okay many investigators. Go on to claim that the single best piece of evidence that ties Mrs Ramsay to this crime. Is this ransom some note. Mrs Ramsay would flatly deny having anything to do with notes creation. Obviously she would do that whether she was innocent or guilty as far as ransom note go this one is very long very verbose in fact. It's one of the longest random notes in the history of kidnapping cases. It could've been just four sentences. We have the girl withdraw hundred eighteen thousand dollars an unmarked non consequently bills from the bank. Do not alert authorities or the girl dies. We will contact you between eight and ten tomorrow to tell you how to deliver the money to us. Why would someone take that much time? I'm to write out a ransom note in the home of someone whose daughter they just killed and whoever did it wrote it did write it in the Ramsey home. I mean people believe they wrote beforehand and brought it but that would mean they would have had to come in a previous time and take the stationary from patchy is not because the paper for came from the House that's definitive that doesn't seem likely the no was drafted on paper taken from middle of a pad located within the ram home written with a pen found in the Ramsey home the pending the paper abor belonged to patsy additional sheet for missing from the pad and we're never located in the Ramsey home finding there was another page in the pad that had Mr and Mrs I com written on it which may a have been an early false start like start a rough draft of the ransom note based on a CBS documentary recreation of the note it takes twenty one minutes just to copy the the entire note out by hand and you would think it would have taken longer to write it initially because you'd have to think about what you're right. Over twenty minutes is a long time just to chill chill out write a note in an active crime scene when someone could walk up and catch it anytime someone coming in and taking Jon Benet from her bed and as you'll see never leaving the property with her killing her possibly sexually sexually assaulting her then sitting down and writing. This note seems highly unlikely to me now. Let's talk about handwriting analysis during the initial murder investigation in an attempt to determine determine who wrote the note the Boulder Police Department in Boulder County District Attorney's office consulted at least six different handwriting experts all of these experts consulted the original ransom note and compared it to original handwriting samples from both Mr and Mrs Ramsay four of these experts hired by the police to were hired by the ramseys. All six experts agreed that Mr Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the note the same six consulted experts did not eliminate Mrs Ramsay as the author of the ransom note. Their reaction was mixed on a scale of one to five with five being definitive affinity elimination as the author of the note the expert tire by the ramseys placed Mrs Ramsay overall some routine four and a four point five described the chance of Mrs Ramsay being the author of the note is very very low. The animal analysts hired by murder investigators however think Mrs Ramsay might be the author and recently in Two Thousand Sixteen when a twenty twenty special air twenty years after the murder conditionally analysts Gideon Eptein seen Awang professional handwriting experts who have worked on hundreds of investigations thing that it is highly likely the Mrs Ramsay wrote the ransom note Seena Wong said it's highly probable that she wrote the ransom note if she did right to know does that mean that she killed her daughter know what it means. She has something to do with it. The very least you knew who the fuck did and wasn't her very likely your husband or son also an investigator closely involved with testing of the ransom note said out of the seventy four name aim submitted for testing patsies handwriting was the only one that set off alarm bells a Colorado Bureau of Investigation. CBI report concluded there are indications nations at the author of the Rams Have Noticed Pat Patricia Ramsey but the evidence fall short support that definitive conclusion over one hundred total samples of different people's handwriting were given the law enforcement investigators over the course of Johnny's initial homicide investigation. Every single one were proven is definitively not matching the note except Patty not her handwriting sample was the one and only one this showed a result of inconclusive couple more interesting point you made about to know before you move on and actually really quick before we get to these boats this remembering something. I didn't even put on my notes. the type of pen she used was a specific wasn't ballpoint that apparently makes a little extra hard to get a definitive conclusion so some of the handwriting analysts think that that was what kind of a little bit from being Patricia is that it was just the type of append made certain kinds of brush marks the that make it a little harder to say four shirts this person okay more about the note i John Ramsey was well. No millionaire why the kidnappers ask for one hundred eighteen thousand dollars why not a million the amount of hundred eighteen thousand dollars you know as as we know now that's the amount of his recent bonus and a strange amount mount to ask for not one hundred thousand not a million not a quarter million not even one hundred twenty thousand one hundred and eighteen fishy to me feels contrived also the supposed supposed kidnappers specifically asked Ramsey take money from his account. Why does that matter typically could ever? They don't give a shit. I give the money they'll give trump since how to get it this way to give it to him. Another weird detail according to experts is the way the kidnappers cry themselves who calls themselves a small foreign faction Y- like I said it gives it gives it a whole fucking Nigerian email scam vibe. If this faction was real small. Why would they want you to know they're small make more sense as they want you to think that they're large powerful big now trying to more powerful not less notes kind of sounds like something out of eighties actioner in her nineties action movies like die hard now John Maclean trying to save everyone from a theories efforts of a small foreign faction held destroy America Yippie Kyw foreign faction now back to the time after calling the police at five fifty four? Am Patchy calls family and friends both the White Family John and Barbara Fernie at around six am the world's most Caucasian couple fleet and Priscilla white arrive on the scene. I imagine both of them wearing silk ascot's they'd never seen patsy so hysterical flailing collapsing sobs John Ramsey was known for displaying emotion motion fleet who done a lot of sailing with him of course he had a rough weather had admired his calm even in the worst storms but not John distraught as well around the same time five fifty nine. AM officer Rick French fries in the scene the first of many officers from the Boulder Police Department to respond to the nine one one call he immediately makes a cursory search at the home finds no signs of forced I entry during a search off Rick French goes to the basement comes to door secured by a wooden latch unbeknownst to him. JONBENET's body lied directly behind it. Sadly the French walks away without opening it. If you would have opened it he could have secured a crime scene. Someone could've been arrested not securing the crime really made this one a motherfucker to solve for later investigators a flea white also searching house testified that when you began to search the lights were already on in the basement in the door in the hallway leading to the basement wine cellar room was opened further testified that a window the basement playroom was broken under the broken window. Mr White States there was a suitcase along with a broken shard glass. Now later will be revealed at this window and broken for some time and the suitcase suitcase also been there for some time nothing that had happened the previous night according to John Ramsey. We'll talk about this a little bit more suspicious. Mr White also opened the the door to the wine cellar room but he did not see anything inside because it was dark and he couldn't find light switch between six am and eight am four more officers arrived the Ramsey residents policeman Karl Vich Barry Weiss Viseu Barlow and their supervisor Sergeant Paul Reichenbach zombies parents now have a house full of people besides an increasing number number of officers and family friends there reverend rollover stock from Saint John's Episcopalian Church arrives around seven fifteen a m just before burke is taken to the White House Mary Lou Jets Grace Grace Morlock Boulder. PD victim advocates arrive around six forty five am with bagels and coffee houses now loaded with people people fucking up with their soon gonNA find out an act. It's you know it's fucking crime seats murder crime scene but they don't know that yet at eight ten. AM The first detectives on the case or Linda aren't and detector Fred Patterson who immediately began their investigation nations. Police are notified of the kidnappers plans to call between eight and ten am as per police procedure the ramseys phones are tapped in the calls are monitored but the small foreign faction never calls and and surprisingly enough no one including John and Patricia Patsy ever mention the missing of the kidnappers call window never bring it up a few officers investigators gators in particular detective. Linda aren't notice how strange that is they make note of that they know also the John and patsy barely in the same room together to this day. Detective aren't is convinced convinced that someone in the family probably John Kill Jon Benet round ten thirty a. m. that morning detective art notices that John Ramsey goes missing for at least an hour leaving leaving the house who supposedly pick up the mail later determine this couldn't be true given the family's mail was delivered to a slot in the front door while we lie about that what was he doing moving the body one. PM Detective Linda Aren't tells a resurface John Ramsey that the police conducting full suite with House John Fleet agree to join in will flee white light after John Ramsey moved his computer company from Atlanta Georgia to Boulder Ninety one the whites Ramsey's found that a lot in common flea was also successful. He's a tycoon oil business. Of course he was. If your fleet white you're not cleaning toilets Burger King you make an oil money manse good name solid rich name name both my kids Fleet White Change Qatar's Tamed Fleet White comments and encouraging to where Ascot's Change Monroe's name to fleet or white coming or maybe fleetest the fleas white she wore mink coats even in the summer a lot of pearls diamonds long so gloves father. What's for dinner caviar fleet? You know that's Mondays Caveat Nights Mondays caviar Tuesday's Tuesday's lobster Wednesday at stake and the rest of the week. It's whatever gets floor in fresh from pre dinner would be seven plates of gold and the food will be chewed by servants then spit into Jio mouse. I boy flee my data fleetest that going to chew their food. Xm Kevin Peasants Five PM detective detective art begins to lead officers on a thorough search the house from top to bottom John Grabs fleet heads to the basement again and that's when John Find Johnny's body according to forensics expert Ron Walker who worked for the Boulder PD the time whenever a murder is staged the perpetrator will deliberately take a family friend or neighbor to the body so that the other person can witness their shock and distressed their surprise upon the side of his daughter. John Smothers her cries out covers blanket takes Jonbenet's body upstairs effectively completely destroying the the crime scene. Now I do realize that might have been a natural reaction. Some of my you know my react to react that way up. I might not care at all about protocol might have been killed but if I'm very strange about all all this is that it took the ramseys over seven fucking hours to find her body was in the House the whole time think about that over seven hours. If one of my kids as was missing ransom note or not I would think I would tear the house apart looking for them and she wasn't hidden. She was laying on the floor in the basement of all the fleet or just turn on the light earlier her open the door right there. She wasn't hidden under anything. The family was now looking in the world you know for in fact they believed they believed the ransom some notes author. We're supposed to wait at home so if you're supposed to be home anyway anything you know you're supposed to waiting by the phone or at least you'll be able to grab the phone cookie when they call. Why would you at the very least it's not look everywhere in your home the nine eleven or nine one one call was placed at five fifty two? AM They can't over seven hours and they don't look in every room in the house what the fuck that really it makes no sense to me at all five minutes later at one ten PM detective art moves the Body a second time into a different room further muddies the evidence people could teach us about her for a long time as well okay now. Let's push pause time. Let's look at the crime scene a little bit polo job as mouth's was covered in duct tape nylon cord connected to a crude grat was was found around her wrists and neck and torso is covered by white blanket so sad I mean she just celebrate a dream Christmas and imagine now she's dead just got an I bike now this very strangely. She wasn't wearing the clothes her parents said she had on when she went to bed the night before so apparently she'd been redressed after her murder. John Apache told investigators that she was wearing a red turtleneck pajama jam atop when you put her to bed she was found in white. One Red Turtleneck was in the bathroom sink found according to John fully clothed covered by one of her blankets very unusual especially considering that her autopsy would later conclude that you may have been sexually assaulted before her death say mates this. You'll see thing it's so muddy here real quick. you know that detail would seem to make the whole thing stranger like what what kind of intruder sexually assaults kills a child and carefully puts clothes back on them fresh close then to take the basement careful as everybody in the ground and then sits down rights at a long rambling ransom note then leaves and doesn't ever call about the ransom money. It's all very odd making all weird or the ligature is around her neck and right wrist word investigators say very loose consistent with staging a crime the not used on the crude garage made from patsies own paintbrush to choke the Child L. D. death were quite intricate. Also unusual dirtbags you look into sexually assaulted a child strangle. Don't usually take the time to make a nice fancy. Not You don't know how can be real honest moreover there are no signs of forcible entry and more importantly no footprints in the melting snow around the house this makes an intruder breaking breaking in that much more unlikely Greg McCreery former. FBI agent and adjunct forensic psychology professor at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale contributing author to the nineteen ninety-two crime classification manual do know some shit about crime as a pedophile and ransom kidnappers never overlap. He says bedfellows grab the child molested and discard them. Random kidnappers are in it strictly for the money what the fuck is going on with this crime. Although the corner did not specify the exact time of death there was a neighbor who told police that she'd been wakened shortly after midnight. Remember that loud person scream other Ramsey's tell police they heard nothing. They heard nothing then the boulder. PD makes a huge mistake. They would later admit it they didn't separate the witnesses the RAMSEYS and didn't get their statements had they done that. They might all case you know instead they potentially they gave the murderer or murderers months and months to come up with a plausible denial good plan hire the right lawyers in the basement where Jon Benet was found again. A window was broken. There was a suitcase case. I don't need to like we said friends is on the same thought that if a perpetrator entered the house you know maybe he would GonNa use this suitcase to get out the window. especially the suitcase had an an unidentified footprint on it but John Ramsey later told investigators he had broken window to get into the house when he locked himself out a few months before his weird that he didn't have someone Oh and fix the window right. They were loaded this busted months ago. Why didn't why didn't you have some come fix? It seems like a beat someone on the priority now let people speak in your basement. There's was a sizable cobweb. Also this is a big thing about the intruder intruder theory sizable cobweb on the window still there when police initially investigated it's if a perpetrator at slipped through the window yeah no not disturb this giant cobweb which would have been virtually impossible also the complexity and size the web was such that it couldn't have been new. Do it looked like it had been for quite some time between one twenty one thirty PM still in December Twenty six boulder policemen Ron Walker police officers Ron Walker Larry Mason arrive and searched the basement wine cellar for further clues they finally secure the home preventing further arrivals and contamination but the damage already been done one forty pm John Ramsey he calls his pilot allegedly is heard asking him to prepare a plane to Atlanta. The law enforcement instructs the family not to leave town five minutes later he'd in the officers warning the ramseys leave their house with plans plans to stay the night at Bernie's home at two thirty pm that day police conduct an interview with jonbenet's brother Burke which reveals the nine year old allegedly slept to the events of the previous night but what about that enhanced audio from the nine one one call now some point after this his father's advice to procure an attorney he does hires a friend named Mike Bynum the following following Dana Topsy of Japanese bodies conducted on December twenty seven by the Boulder County Coroner's office. Let's examine what they found out. The cause of Jonbenet's death was ruled as fix ya by strangulation associated with cranial cerebral trauma. The autopsy report supports the conclusion that she was alive before she was fixated by strangulation relation and that she fought her attacker in some manner evidence gathered during the autopsy was consistent with the inference that she struggled to remove a grat from her neck. The autopsy report reveals injury jonbenet's Genitalia consistent with a sexual assault shortly before her death although head we'll see that's going to be challenging but although no head injury was visible when she was first discovered the autopsy also revealed received she'd received a severe blow to her head shortly before where around the time for Murder Order forensic pathologist believes she was alive when she was struck on the head in alive when the garage was applied the scalp hemorrhage ran from the right eyebrow to the back of the head the correspondent skull fracture was eight and a half inches long with a small displaced fragment of bone. She had a subdural hemorrhage beneath the school. Although the head wound was a fatal type injury three Particu hemorrhaging of the is indicated that Jon Benet was alive at the time of her strangulation possibly brain dead or about to die but technically we still alive at that time the bleeding Jon benet Genitalia area also indicated. She was alive when she was assaulted. If she was assaulted her hymen was torn and material consistent with wouldn't charge from the paintbrush choose to make the Garrett found in her vagina the at such a strange wrinkled all this you know no evidence suggests that she was the victim of chronic sexual abuse which I would think would be the case of one of her parents assaulter however you know she was sexually assaulted by famous. I you know it could have been the first time as always has to be a first time on a possible. did John or Patsy or maybe even burke began to assault her. Kids are curious. Sometimes they do act out sexually another kids. That doesn't not happen. Did that begin to happen then. She tried to get them stopped. Often things escalated from there maybe again it's such a confusing crime and check this out. Mark Becker the man who is the boulder police chief during jonbenet's murder investigation Asian did read it. Ask Me anything in two thousand fifteen. This is what he said we know from the evidence. She was hit in the head very hard with an unknown object. Possibly a flashlight or similar type vitam the blow knocked her deep into the blow knocked her into deep unconsciousness which could have led some to believe she was dead. The strangulation came forty five five minutes to two hours after the head strike based on the swelling on the brain while the head wound would have eventually killed her. The strangulation actually did kill her. The rest of the scene we believe was staged this import the rest of the scene we believe was staged including the vaginal trauma to make it look like a kidnapping assault gone bat right and again that was a Reddit Ama response from mark back near the Guy who's the boulder police chief during jumping as murder investigation a guy who didn't understand what an AMA was and didn't realize that everyone would be able to find out what he said and felt bad about disclose all of that later I mean I mean the PD they I thought this was all staged. Vaginal trauma they fucked up is that I mean think about that means. You know that means that you know. Let's say burke master in the head on accident Donna Patsy. I think she's already dead or is GONNA be dead. One of them strangles her puts. A paintbrush entertainment and their daughters are John. It's making look like she'd been sexually assaulted. How incredibly dark doc is that possibility? I mean I don't know what else you're supposed to infer from this as as when when they say that must have been staged. How could you put a paintbrush Russian? You're dead daughters vagina to cover up accidentally killing her corner took nail clipping from Jon Benet male. DNA was found under Jon Benet as right hand and female that does not match any of the Ramsey's addition male. DNA was found in Jonbenet's underwear did not match any of the Ramseys man DNA analysis will further muddy this shit up over the years as you will soon see finally the coroner's report notes injuries on the right side of Jon Benet facing left lower back. All defenders assert that these injuries are consistent with the use of a stun gun plaintiff notes from the investigation no that the coroner's report does not expressly state the injuries were the result of such instrument over Dr Michael Dourson forensic pathologist colleges retained by the Ramseys who examined the boulder corners autopsy report an autopsy photos concludes that the injuries to the right side of the face as well as the lower left back are patterned and injuries most consistent with the application of a stun gun in the sound this part of the intruder hypothe- some some creep came in there and started with a stun gun then did what he did. There's also a flashlight photograph sitting on the ramseys kitchen table that fit John as rectangular headwind fracture exactly some later point to this as the head trauma weapon air something else to think about why would a kidnapper strangled at the child who who's already already suffered deadly head trauma of a family member hit in the head why would they we also strangle her or make. She was strangled. If it really was an accident why couldn't you just be honest. Burke was nine if he accidentally killed a sister would really get now a trouble. I doubt it now with attorneys you the ones the family could afford told you in the more you look into this more confused should gets. Dan Lewis a free to clear my head Troth now. Let's make even more confusing. The autopsy also reveal vessel fruit material which may represent pineapple was Jon Benet had eaten a few hours before her death photographs of the home. Take on the day when Jonbenet's body were found do do show a bowl of pineapple pieces in milk on the kitchen table with a spoon however both John and Patsy said they did not remember putting the ball on the table or forever feeding the pineapple did Jon Benet the flips this fruit someone she knew sneak in wake her up take her to the kitchen for midnight snack. Would someone ever do that knowing that any time the parents could come downstairs and catch him. Please reported that they found Japanese nine year old brother Burke fingerprints on the bowl burke. You know help a little snack and then something happened after that. The ramseys have always maintained the burks led to the entire episode until he was awakened several hours after the police have arrived like the phone call Danielle makes it seem like this is not true. Why are they lying about burke? Why this seems to be a lot of lies around burke again at Burke kilter would nine year old follow up with a headwind was strangulation? I I don't think acute done that doesn't make sense to me. December thirtieth please take blood and hair samples from John Ramsey other members of the family John Andrew Ramsay and Belinda Ramsey Jon Benet adult half siblings were Georgia on the day of the murder or immediately limited suspects December thirty first six year old jonbenet buried at Saint James Episcopal Cemetery in Marietta Georgia the family including John and patsy allowed to travel to Atlanta for the funeral tragic less than a week if they were all celebrating Christmas the following day New Year's Day January I nineteen ninety-seven John and Patsy Ramsey and extensive interview to CNN which Patsy Ramsey proclaims there is a killer on the loose. John Ramsey calls the idea that he or other members of his family could've committed the crime nauseating beyond belief. This interview was done before the Boulder. Police could officially interview the two alone and the boulder police are beginning to further suspect the ramseys Ramsey's had something to do with this murder. Five detectives fly from Boulder to Atlanta to interview them now. Let's look at the CNN interview more. It didn't did not do them any favors with the court. Public opinion in one part of this National Interview Patsy Ramsey says we have to find out who did this. John Ramsey ads not because we're angry but we have to go on not the angry but what's your daughter was sexually assaulted and murdered in your home fucking week ago and you're not angry you robot you sociopaths. Does your best incapable of emotion like more. CEO's are sociopaths than the average person within a long time ago in sucked number four just very weird does not it's not a good look. The ramseys are asked. Are you fully convinced your daughter was kidnapped. Patsy starts to shake her head no and then John Jacobs had yes. She starts nodding yes as well then and then she says I it's. It's just hard to know but we are on our families loving family. It's a gentle family. Why would John You know give a yes answer? Do you know she wasn't kidnapped found her body in the home the concert by six. Am No kidnapper snug her body in his law enforcement continued to arrive and wha- what some can never snuck her in you know sometime after or snuck in sometime after ten pm got her out then brought her back. If what makes sense he wasn't kidnapped on January third Jonah Patsy Return Arne Colorado to jonbenet's funeral February thirteenth ninety-seven Boulder police chief. Tom Koby Bolder Boulder County district attorney Alex Hunter hold all the news conference where they vowed to kill will be brought to justice. Da Hunter that announces the formation as different please. You've mentioned earlier it. Was You know those along investigation ended up being several police chiefs part of it d hunter then announces the formation of an Expert Prosecution Task Force including Forensic Expert Henry Lee DNA expert Berry Shack back both Leeann check were part of the Oj Simpson defense team and the media aides issued up cases a subject of immense media coverage. The general consensus seems to be believed that the ramseys did it Jon Benet. Pageant experience seems to have been a major factor in coming to that belief media puns in the general public alike finding pageant lifestyle awed. Obviously I can't blame them. I mean let's say the Ramsey had nothing to do with her daughter's death and she was killed by some random pedophile tunnel a ton of articles about the case that I've read indicates that a lot of people thought that at the very lease dressing her up like they did turned her into a magnet for paedophiles turned like Pedo Bait and I don't totally disagree. I mean you sexualize your kid. I mean you. Are you know making them. More noticeable to fucking people are actually attracted to kids to someone who knew I heard from pageant world killer. That's another possibility that goes with the intruder theories March thirteenth ninety-seven veteran homicide detective loose smit joins the Ramsey murder investigation. Smith was a retired investigator from El Paso County best known for cracking the murder case of Heather Dawn Church in Colorado Springs headed down was not affected church. She was a thirteen year old girl killed by Derby named Robert Charles Brown a guy who like Otis tool and Henry Lucas ended up confessing to a whole bunch of other murders may or may not have committed African arrested April third nineteen ninety-seven. DNA testing begins at cellmark diagnostics labs Maryland this was the second round of DNA testing. The Jon Benet case initial round was conducted the Colorado Bureau Investigation Labs just two weeks later D. A. Alex Hunter for the first time publicly identified John and Patsy Ramsey is the primary focus of their investigation. Gosh Dang g workers to salad slipping. Get a neighbor twenty seven ninety six the ramseys funded newspaper AD offering a heart thousand dollar reward for Info about jonbenet's killer three days later April thirtieth the police conducted inducted long-awaited formal interviews with John and Patsy Ramsey more than four months at the Jon Benet found murdered not good patsies interrogated for six and a half hours johnny question. We're just two hours at the end. The police released no statement regarding the contents of those interviews. May I ninety seven John Patsy Ramsey in a rare interview with reporters declare their innocence. I I did not kill my daughter. John Ramsey States patsy says let me assure you that I did not kill Jon Benet on May Thirteenth Ninety seven. I detective to arrive at at the murder scene. Linda art aren't is dropped from the case. Why selena claims she was fired for criticizing her superiors for their handling of this case her superiors were say we'll say she was removed because she bungled the case on August fourteenth ninety-seven Jon Benet grisly autopsy details are released to the public on January Fifteenth Nineteen Ninety eight Jonah Patsy Ramsey refused to submit to another round of interviews unless they can review the evidence first a condition unacceptable to police to refuse does seem weird the whole refusing to come in and do the interviews does seem weird to me? It's never properly explained. Some sources say the boulder. PD bossy interviews not not demanding the them immediately because John was rich bigwigs. Local businessmen was military contractor die. Some sources seem to think that this is just what happens to give lots of money can hire good lawyers to do everything in their legal power to make it hard for police to investigate you. I do think if they were for sure innocent. Why not cooperate more police but again? If you have a lawyer reminding you that innocent people can do go to jail horrible crimes all the time even murder I also see whiteness and person would not cooperate January Sixteenth Governor Roy Romer Romer Roy Romer rejects request by two friends of the Ramsey family to appoint a special prosecutor in the murder case little bit of conflict of interest. They're your friend is suspected of murder and now you're gonNA try and get a prosecutor you like attached to the case January twenty nine ninety eight more than a year after Dada was murdered the ramseys turnover to police the clothing they were wearing the night. Johnny was found dead that that is so ridiculous to me which which I understood legal protocol more here. Why didn't they get too close week one? What is the point of getting them over a year later? I mean you can see what kind of detergent they've been using also. Wouldn't it be very easy just to buy new versions of the clothing you're wearing then. Give that to the police. I mean how the fuck with another difference a March twelve ninety eight at looking for the killer of jonbenet for fifty fifteen months police say the best bet for solving the murder a grand jury investigation and formerly called for such a probe after conferring with District Attorney Alex Hunter so what is a grand jury investigating. I've always been a little confused by that. I know we mentioned grand jury investigations of the Black Dahlia Suck. They were used to investigate. LAPD corruption also try and bring Dolly is suspect to trial but I never explained what a grand jury investigation is. It's pretty unique. According to wikipedia which provides you know provided the the best most understandable lame speak type definition. I could find a better than the legal sites found a grand jury is well a jury a group of citizens sends empowered by local bylaw to conduct legal proceedings and investigate potential criminal conduct and determine whether criminal charges should be brought a grand jury he may subpoena physical evidence of or a person to testify a grand jury is separate from the courts which do not preside over its functioning Liberia and the United States are the only two countries in the world that use grand juries like this type of trial basically the determines. If you're going to have a criminal trial unlike a regular trial there's no defense with a grand jury investigation only the prosecution trying to convince the jury that someone should be prosecuted at a criminal trial and when and why are these grand juries used without without you know hijacking this timeline further into an explanation of our entire criminal court system the simplest answer I've found is grand. Juries are used when the prosecution does not have enough evidence evidence to convince a judge that subject should be held to answer for crime so the Jon Benet case what happened was the boulder police department is having a hard time figuring out how to charge Jon Benet parents with her murder lot of members of the BP did they think that John and patsy maybe burke either. Did it has something to do with it but they just don't have enough evidence to get a judge to sign off on indictment so they decided to try for a grand jury hope they can convince them that. There's no evidence enough circumstantial evidence to bring them to trial. I think it's about as good as I can. Explain it. hopefully I got that right. Make things more complicated while most of the boulder. PD convince the RAMSEYS GUILT THEY WANNA call for grander investigation the DA's office does not think the RAMSEYS are involved. This was a big complicated part of this case the Boulder Police Department seem to consistently believe it was the Ramseys the district attorney's office seemed to consistently believed the intruder theory in May nineteen ninety eight loose-knit the detective hired by the DA's office presents his findings and bpd with other staff members of the DA's office concluding the that the evidence pointed away from the Ramseys however smitten his team were unable to successfully challenged enough members of the EP who did believe the Ramseys were guilty the DA's office ought to take control investigation due to animosity between the police and the DA's the office and the pressure to obtain a conviction Colorado Governor Roy Romer steps in names Michael Caine a special prosecutor to initiate a grand jury two of the lead investors in the the case had opposing views Smith and Steve Thomas Resign smid because he believes that the investigation headed incompetently overlooked the intruder is Thomas because the DA's office had interfered with and failed to support the police investigation of the case pointed that the Ramseys Steve Thomas resigned with the well publicized letter which said attempts to gather evidence for met with refusals and instead it was suggested that we ask permission from the ramseys before proceeding he thought the Ramseys had intimidated the DA's office office as the feud with the DA's office escalated the Boulder police accepted the aid of a Dream Team of three attorneys who offer to provide pro bono counsel in the case curiously one of the attorneys had served as outside cancel council. Excuse me to Lockheed Martin and several cases the second belong to affirm that also represented that accompany the third had been co-counsel with how hadn't John Ramsey's criminal attorney Carney in another matter right a little fishy who'd want the case too late various entities connected to the case had strong reasons for delaying a grand jury Investigation District Attorney Hunter whose office rarely went to trial and homicide cases was just one was not his comfort zone. This guy was not well liked at all by boulder. PD They seem to think he was pretty weak. Willed willed weak-minded Lockheed Martin. One of the largest employers would want to try delayed as well right this company's been trying to sell access graphics for awhile now to General Electric. You know any risks that the company's top executive would be facing possible indictment would not have helped the development plans all is now you have lawyers representing John Ramsey. WHO's employers can lose a lot of money if he's found guilty daughter? The trials delayed the delay was no damaging to the investigation further on several fronts leaks proliferated witnesses altered or stories stories or sold them to tabloids just keeps getting Messier on June twenty-fourth Nineteen Ninety eight John and Patsy Ramsey returned to Colorado interrogation by district attorney's investigators a reportedly questioned together and separately for the first time the prosecution conducts an extensive interview now with their son Burke who's eleven over a year and a half after Jon Benet died August August six hundred seventy eight in a sting eight-page resignation letter an angry detective Steve Thomas. One of the lead investigators says District Attorney Hunters Office is thoroughly compromised and that they've tripled the case. Thomas charged that critical evidence had been collected and maintained that other evidence wasn't even tested Colorado Governor Ray Rohner then asked four boulder the area. Da's whether or not he should intervene further in the case. It's huge mess August twelfth. Governor Romer says he wants to help the DA further now removing from the case he invokes a state statute that allows for special deputies Japanese to assist the DA cases headed for Grand Jury on August twentieth source until the Denver Post an enhanced version the nine one one call Patsy Ramsey made of the morning she found the ranch note includes includes burks voice. We talked about that. A grand jury convenes beginning September Fifteenth Nineteen Ninety eight to consider indicting the Ramseys for charges relating to the case five five months after they were chosen Boulder County grand juries beginner investigation then investigator loose Smith and resigns Santa Thorns. These are folks who have Leeann Jonbenet's parents his resignation letter. Liu says the RAMSEYS did not kill her daughter and a very dangerous killer is still out there October Thirteenth Thirteenth Nineteen Ninety eight grand jury begins here in forensic evidence including analysis of handwriting. DNA inherent fibers found at the scene seven days later on October twentieth. John Ramsey returns is to Colorado for deposition in civil case filed against him in the national enquirer by photographer Steven Miles who's a neighbor of the ramseys and one national enquirer article a statement attributed to John Ramsay speculates that the real murder was an intruder most likely a pedophile. We plan to suggest it was a neighbor Stephen Miles. John's attorney will argue the John said no such thing ninety nine the grand jury returned a true bill to charge the Ramseys with placing the child at risk in a way that led to her death and with obstructing the investigation of murder. This is an easier easier indictments than outright murder requires a lower burden of proof but Boulder County district attorney Alex Hunter does not prosecute. He believes he still doesn't have enough of evidence to prove them guilty beyond reasonable doubt in court something the Ramseys have literally paid. Da Hunter off the sniping fingerpointing between Boulder PD the dish attorney's Attorney's office intensifies some prosecutors believe detective too fixated on the parents as suspects failed to adequately explore other leads cops accused of being too chummy. You're intimidated by the Ramsey legal team after more than a year of hearings the proceedings have accomplished absolutely fucking nothing they look to be over on February Eighteenth Nineteen Ninety nine Lawrence Schiller's book perfect murder perfect town offers new insight and details into the investigation. This book describes the feud between police and prosecutors on April eight nine six months extension of the grand jury investigations granted proceedings seatings not over. They've decided to keep trying on May nineteenth ninety nine Birkenau twelve secretly questioned by the grand jury the next day boulder authorities publicly confirm arm. He's not a suspect but is witness. Fuck what a witness. What did he see the September thirteen ninety nine former detective? Linda aren't one of the first detectives on the Crime Crime Scene The day Jonbenet's body was found who by this time has resigned from the bpd appears on Good Morning America claiming she knows what happened. The Night Jonbenet was killed in a five five-part interview. She says she knows who killed a girl but will not reveal the name but he kind of does she makes I watched it. She makes it very clear without saying his name that she thinks that John Ramsey the father. I sure did it September twenty third nineteen ninety nine after a almost four months off the grand jury returns to Work October Thirteenth Ninety nine Alex announces after the grand jury has completed its work that his team still does not think they have sufficient evidence to warrant filing charges over three years later Mary lacy the next Boulder County district attorney takes over the investigation from the police on the six year anniversary of Jonbenet's death December twenty six two thousand and two in April two thousand three Lacey States Jonbenet's killing is more consistent with the theory that intruder murder Jon Benet then it was with the theory that Mrs Ramsay did back and forth it goes December two thousand three. DNA results muddy everything further forensic investigators extract enough enough material from a mixed blood sample found jonbenet's underwear underwear to establish the DNA profile that DNA belongs to an unknown male person investigators obviously hope that this is a big break in solving the case DNA was submitted to the F. B. is combined DNA index system database containing more than one point six million profiles doesn't you'll to match fast forward a couple of years later June twenty four two thousand six Patsy Ramsey dies after battling ovarian cancer off and on for more than a decade August fifteenth two thousand six John Mark John Mark Car a forty-one-year-old elementary school teacher confesses that he accidentally killed Jon Benet while attempting having to sexually assault her he's arrested in Thailand for a brief moment. It looks like Jonbenet's killer has been found nope the case against car collapses later that August. DNA NATE test results eliminate him as a suspect also he wasn't in boulder at the time of the murder more on this fucking nut job a little bit later July nine two thousand eight arm with new DNA evidence that points to an unknown male zombies killer Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy Public publicly exonerates the child's parents and immediate family in a letter hand delivered to John Ramsey. Lacey says she is confident that a touch DNA analysis done by private lab has determined the genetic material left on the way spend long Johns Jonbenet was wearing when her body was found matches. The DNA left in her underwear in the DNA blogs to an unknown suspect with no strong suspects remaining the case goes cold and October two thousand ten two cases reopened new interviews are conducted following a fresh inquiry by committee that included state and federal investigators gators police are expected to use more Jews newer. DNA technology this investigation there was no new information gleaned from those interviews according to ABC News it was reported in September temperature thousand sixteen to the investigation and Janis deaths continued to be an active homicide case for Boulder Police Chief Greg Testa September two thousand sixteen ECKSTEEN TV programs from a any Dr Phil dayline NBC CBS News Airs Jon Benet Specials in advance. The twentieth anniversary of Murder Boulder police chief Greg Testa says timber. I videotape statement that he won't do interviews about the case to maintain the investigations integrity he points out the department is processed. Fifteen hundred pieces of evidence has taken two hundred. DNA samples interviewed more than one thousand people in eight states investigated more than twenty thousand tips. NOT GONNA do any more interviews in October of two thousand sixteen eighteen forensic expert to examine the DNA test of tained exclusively by the daily camera and nine news dispute former Da. Mary Lacy's conclusion the DNA DNA profile found in one place on Giannis underpants and two locations that are long johns was the killers. This is where the fucking DNA thing is so crazy. The experts say the evidence showed the DNA samples came from at least two people in addition Jon Benet something Lacey's office was told but did she didn't mention when she cleared the ramseys and the experts also said that these DNA samples were of the kind that likely could have come from a long John Factory factory worker Sneeze Datta dammit right many female field that the Ramsey should have never been exonerated based on DNA testing right the results were misinterpreted looks like the DNA tests had nothing to do with the murder December thirteen thousand thousand sixteen boulder police and prosecutors plan a new round of DNA test that yield Jack Shit to this date. There are no new leads. The case remains remains unsolved variously analysts. Do all agree that the case will in all likelihood forever remain unsolved over still gonNA look at some suspects. Let's bounce the timeline to do exactly that good job soldier made it back when it comes to suspects there is as you know two main groups family intruders. We're GONNA look at both afterward. After a word from a final sponsor time suck is brought to you today by Boulder private investigators staffed only by former investigators who worked on the Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey case. VPI specializes in taking your hard to solve case and continuing to never fucking solve it ever plenty of firms to get you answers. That's easy. BP I get it's you so many questions always questions and answers or your money back. Do you want Constan disagreement between investigators and friend GAFFER'S THE DA's office. Do you want to drag a case out indefinitely continue to add theories until even cares you did it anymore. Everyone wants to put the whole thing behind them. Do you want to really start to nail down a suspect and then go full jake their mind and start over over from scratch. Do you want to pay a lot of people a lot of money to look really busy but actually accomplish exactly nothing call. They're the best in the game and taking your case seriously seriously seriously never ever fucking solving it and of course sponsored out real time today by movement whether you're at the office onto your phone or unwinding from a long day movements ever scroll blue light filtering glasses. Have you covered. I'm wearing them right now. Right now. Do Youtube watchers. There's they're built to protect your eyes from blue light this because I strain discomfort excuse me poor sleeping patterns and every school blue light filtering glasses started just sixty five bucks. I've got a mild prescription for glass over a year ago because I strain was killing me and then I got these movement blue blockers no prescription and I wear the more than and prescription glasses now they do more to reduce ice train for me than slight magnification any future prescription lenses. I get our for sure going to have this. you know blue light light filter and look cool. I think they make me look smarter. Maybe younger wear them. They don't look like other computer glassy out there right. He's oranges regular glasses lasts. No Yellow Tint lenses like find other blue light blockers right none of them none of those door glasses pick from round frames clear frames colored frames etc movements elections actions always expanding with new traditional and fashion forward styles to choose from get fifteen percent off today with free shipping free returns by going to movement dot com slash time time suck. That's M. V. M. T. dot com slash time suck shop movement ever scroll blue light filtering glasses protect. Your eyes look great doing it. Movement DOT com slash last time I joined the movement Lincoln the description now. Let's look at some theories. Let's start with the intruder theory this just in general before we look at individual intruder possibilities abilities. The intruder theory goes something like this. Somebody was able to survey the family find a time when they weren't in the house. Get into the house when everyone to sleep they wrote a ransom letter took Jon Benet possibly using a stun gun to do her then took her down to the basement tighter up kilter still left the ransom note saying she was safe then they left through the window without disturbing a huge Wjr cobweb then never contacted anyone about the ransom. So you know makes a lot of sense this is the theory that loose Smith Vice One of the homicide detectives was hired by District Attorney Alex Hunter early investigation. He believes it's mostly because Jon Benet might have been sexually assaulted and dismiss Iraq irrevocably Gosh points to someone what else I the house but she might not have been sexually assaulted. There was no evidence of conventional rape. Although sexual assault could not be ruled out although seem was found there was evidence that there have been vaginal injury and the time the autopsied appeared vaginal area white cloth however fuck this is so confusing this case so my mother Dr Richard Krugman a specialist and child abuse brought in as a consultant by one hundred office says that there was a vaginal abrasion which is quote a sign of trauma not a sign of sexual abuse necessarily manning she could have fallen down could ran into something you know her. hothead brother could've kicked her in the in the junk. She might not have been sexually assaulted or maybe she was Dr. Cyril Wecht a well known forensic. Pathologist has no doubt that the forty five pound child had been molested saying if she had been taken to a hospital emergency room doctors had seen the general evidence evidence her father would have been arrested right fine. No one can agree on anything called. VPI The vaginal opening according to Dr Robert Kirshner of the University of Chicago's Pathology Department was twice the normal size for six year olds the genital injuries indicate penetration he says but probably not by peanuts and are evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation yeah. I'm not a doctor but it seems like Dr Cursor is reading a lot into vaginal opening especially since other doctors are divided on what happened there was also blood and urine stains on her underpants a considerable obstacle to the investigators according to one well play source and the DA's office was the fact that the crime scene in the body had had been cleaned up. Maybe that's what John Ramsey was doing. He was missing for an hour. Another piece of evidence pointing to an intruder is that there had been more than one hundred burglaries and the Ramsey's neighborhood in the months before John. Somebody's murder also there were thirty eight registered sex offenders living within a two mile radius of the Ramsey home crepes. Don't just live in neighborhoods like missing fingernails. They also also live in New Orleans. Living near neighborhoods like Chappaqua now. Let's look at one of these sex offenders and a few other suspects relating to the intruder theory one of the individuals that veteran homicide aside detector loose-knit identified as a suspect under his intruder theory Gary Howard Aletha or Allah who was arrested for two counts of attempted sexual sexual exploitation of a child and one count of Sexual Exploitation of exploitation of a child on June two thousand sixteen so it's the same charges whatever the house written this con- convicted pedophile have been living in the area on and off when police allegedly found a magazine cut out of Jon Benet Ramsey his back back after he was apprehended on drug charges in two thousand incre- he was soon released but suspicion remained. DNA DNA testing for the Damer cleared him but we know all the fucking problems the DNA testing he was charged with two counts of sexual exploitation of a child for possessing child pornography and check this out justice summer. This motherfucker currently imprisoned but due for parole next year allegedly allegedly confessed to accidentally killing the six year old in a series of letters sent to a former high school classmate. I never loved anyone like I did Jon Benet and yet I let her slip flip in her head bashed in half and I watched her die Aleve a wrote in a letter to his former classmate Michael Vale. It was an accident. Please believe me she was not like the other kids so creepy. Now like the other kids Google image search this living heard in human costume and he looks exactly like the kind of guy who writes that letter why did so many pedophile have long wispy hair and fucking mustaches. He looked so creepy that if you were a parent and you're willing to let this motherfucker watch your kids and that he then molested him the police should arrest you and the pedophile steady both the prison would you in for letting fuck Gary Wash my eight year old sounds fair and other letter to Vail deliver wrote or Gary Rhodes Net last names Jon Benet completely changed me and removed all evil from me just one look at her beautiful face for beautiful glowing skin and her her divine God body. I realized I was wrong to kill the kids yet by accident. She died. It was my fault her divine God body Jesus. That's why you don't put what sex sex up costumes fucking prayed around a catwalk because of the Gary of the world. That's it rose only wearing garbage bags starting tomorrow better yet you'll be garbage can like Oscar the grouch and Fridays loosen it up. She does the summer she won't have to. You know we're snowboots. Vaile said he suspected his old High School Buddy for twenty two years of killing Jon Benet ever since he received as a serving call from Gary shortly after the murder and before the case made national headlines Vail who lives in Ventura California until the Daily Mail my suspicions began when Gary called me late at night on December twenty six nineteen ninety-six he was sobbing and said I heard a little girl. I tried to get get more information out of him the only other thing he told me that he was in Boulder Colorado on December twenty seven to read the front page in my local newspaper girl six lane in Boulder Colorado. I immediately called the boulder older. PD told them what I knew about Gary and what he told me days earlier they didn't get back to me three months later. I called the police again to find out what was going on the investigation and Gary but instead I was sent to police answering Sandra machine said it for tips and the Jon Benet case. I let the message on the recorded line and again. I never heard back from investigators. Boulder police released a statement this year saying that you you know Levy Linda. It's I've no fucking idea to pronounce lever Oliver Oliver had previously confessed and investigators had looked into news claimed the Boulder Police Department is aware of Gary has investigators potential involvement this case including several previous confessions said the statement the Department routinely receives information on this investigation information provided to the police department is reviewed along with the many tips and theories who receive I looked into this Michael Vale guys well who settled us about Gary. He also looks like a total pedo. Why is he still friends with Gary over twenty years after Gary Basically told him he killed Jon Benet Fuck you Mike Valey piece of Shit Yours? Rely R- interfering with the murder investigation to try and get your face in some magazines or your longtime buddies with an admitted you know fucking child child abuser for pedophile another potential suspect according into Ollie Gray private investigator higher the Ramsey family who died in two thousand seventeen was an electrician named Michael Hill Goth who worked at a nearby auto salvage yard gray referred to as is a hell raiser tied to alleged property dispute involving the ramseys could that have served as possible motivation to seek revenge on the family and kidnapped Jon Benet speculated that once a twenty six year August caught wind that he could be a suspect in the case officials found a blueprint leisurely similar to his near the Ramsey home he committed suicide before anyone could get to him. His death occurred two days days after in one thousand nine hundred seven press conference announcing that the Boulder D. was zeroing in on a new suspect however hell remains cleared by you know both. DNA which again questionable the fact that he's dead as fuck seems a little extreme to get back at him for like a little. You know a money dispute properties what yeah I guess that stuff can't happen authorities. He's closing investigation said in two thousand sixteen helps Gary Leyva had been carefully investigated for many years and had not been considered suspects in two thousand the sixers you mentioned a former schoolteacher John Mark Karr confessed out of the blue to the strangulation of Jon Benet in graphic detail a car was arrested in Thailand where he'd lived on the Lam facing child porn charges and us us when he confessed he was immediately flown aboard requesting ultimately cleared after DNA failed to match the profile of an unknown male cars dementia confession involved a series of diary entries allegedly written didn't from the scene of the crime and dramatic account car recalled strangling Jon Benet in a love game gone wrong close. Your pretty eyes sweetheart reads the excerpt in which car repeatedly he'd leave. I who himself as DAX's DAX's loves you so much. Oh my God I love you Jon Benet am I love his eyes are slowly clothing and my lover's eyes are slowly closing. I know we shouldn't make it illegal to write creepy shit like that about wanting to have sex with dead kids. That'll be an assault on free speech but can we make it legal for parents to get to hit these people. It's hard to they want in the face at least one time for doing that a car you know his he was dismissed as a suspect altogether written Alpha's pedophile. You'll just wanted notoriety notoriety famous. He wasn't even in the area what happened just fuck another not a car believed to change his name. It is gender living somewhere as a free woman in the US named Delilah Alexis Reich new general same old creep suspect I feel sorry for was the Ramsey neighborhood Santa Claus bill mcreynolds who died in two thousand to the age of seventy you too friend of the Ramseys who dressed up Santa Claus the week before John but as murder to entertain the neighborhood children want patsies famous Christmas gatherings the possibility the now deceased McDonald's had anything to do Jon Benet death extremely unlikely but does get tossed around on the Internet lock a lot as far as suspect list after dues we've named He. He's the most suspected you know suspect under the intruder theory mcreynolds was rumored to have paid a little too much attention to Jon Benet going as far as to arrange a secret visit from Santa Claus on Christmas supposedly he'd chosen Jumba to be a special friend going as far as to bring a vial of glitter gifted to him by the six year old with him into heart surgery even stranger. He asked his wife to mix to build glitter with his ashes where he died. I mean it is a little bit odd. Twenty neighbor girl's glitter mixed in with your ashes that story generated buzz the Denver Post failed to amount to anything more than the Ah sensationalized characterised assignation of a friendly old man poor bastard should never said Shit about the glitter build us to have been a good guy. Bill was born in South Texas a few miles from the border. little town of Donna Texas nineteen thirty received a degree in journalism from the University of Texas served in the army return to his home amount mater time for five years before for moving to Minneapolis to attend the University of Minnesota where he earned his doctorate in American studies hired by Colorado University Journalism Department in Nineteen Sixty eight and then he and his wife Janna spent the next x thirty years in boulder raised three kids after his retirement from Colorado University Ninety two he volunteered a lot of time to be a children's Santa Claus he really took up to the role as a life goal Jena said after his death he loved being Senate he loved little children and then the Ramsey case destroyed that career and just devastated him he loved that little girl who was is a very sad thing in his life because he generally loved children. It was the happiest part of his life after be named suspect by the Court of public opinion for the social backlash that entailed key and Jen moved moved the left for Cape Cod nine hundred ninety eight mcreynolds never volunteered to be sent again instead he the grandfather of six volunteered at local senior center last view the last few years of his life before dying of a heart attack and poor bastard not all people who like to spend time with pedophile. It's important to remember that after my myself that sometimes comes after reading about all these dirtbags there are other even less credible suspects in the intruder theory too many dimension. Let's talk about one last creep Randall dewitt Simmons Randall dewitt Simmons is a piece of Shit. He is also a pageant photographer who took pictures or was who took pictures of Jon Benet six months before she died died and he was arrested earlier this year on Kiddie porn charges of course he was he liked little girls. All sexed up like hot kids dirty bird sixty-six-year-old sixty-six-year-old was arrested this past July second the tiny central Oregon town of Oakridge charged with fifteen counts of encouraging child sex abuse currently awaiting trial and Oregon in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight less than two years after Jonbenet's murder he was arrested for walking down the street naked and one of the first things he said two officers when he was arrested was. I didn't Kill Java so that's you know that's fun not suspicious at all despite all this. PD never considered him to be a serious suspect. They seem to put him in the nuttier than squirrels squirrels Shit crackpot list put him on that he was given a psychic val or cycle following one thousand nine hundred arrests so it's confession killers all over again man. What is it what these nuts confessing confessing the horse shit heinous stuff they didn't do some kids thrive on negative attention? I guess some grownups do to now's the family one last time I Pazzi Genie's mother other Patsy Ramsey took whatever secrets she was holding from that you know that more into the gray which he passed away after thirteen year battle with cancer the main murder theory with Patsy is that while she was cleaning up yet another one of John as Bedouin accidents now she flipped out slammed her little girl's head against the side of a hard blunt service like a bathtub in and then panicked like a stretch to me a big stretch but former detective Steve. Thomas thinks that Mrs Ramsay strangled her daughter in panic moment on Christmas night nineteen ninety-six for accidentally caused a serious wound two little girls head. He contends that the girl's father John Ramsey after realizing what happened chose to protect his wife rather than help authorities achieve also thinks the Apache wrote the note and Apache did Jon Benet. It's unlikely that she covered it up on her own right like you said everything from her husband. So that brings us of course to Papa John John was the one defined Johnny's body the one to ruin the crime scene he'll he he also if you'll recall reportedly disappeared for over an hour during the search for Jon Benet report rumors of a history of sexual abuse began to circulate almost immediately after the murder became sensational news story though no evidence was ever found to prove allegations John Address those rumors at a press a statement saying there is no history a person doesn't go throughout their lives as normal human being one night turned into a monster slaughter their daughter go to bed and get up an abnormal from there on that doesn't happen and to his his point no allegations any wrongdoing ever played this guy before or since three other daughters none of them ever alleged. Anything seems unlikely he molested Western again. She may not have even been molested. Analysis brother Burke Warner Spitz is the ninety three year old German American forensic pathologist who has worked on so many high profile cases including investigations into the assassination of JFK Martin Luther King he testified at the trials of Casey Anthony O. J. Simpson and he consulted on Jon Benet Homicide Investigation Investigation and his review of John as autopsy included finding a perfectly rectangle or defect that he suspected came from a blow to the little girl's head with a blunt the heavy flashlights seen in a photo on the kitchen counter and the crime scene photos he cleaned the flashlight fifty eight and a half inch Gash in her skull to perfection however no trace evidence of you know neither Jon Benet or Burke was founded the flashlight. The flashlight became more suspicious when tied to the pineapple scenario at theory. We talked about earlier. Maybe Burke gave her. Some little slice of pineapple is an late night snack like an argument stuck with flashlights in a moment of anger. No Oh kids do stupid shit why strangulation afterwards though why the possible vaginal penetration again they think that you know John or Patsy both have simulated related all of that to two point crime different direction many theories with burke revolve around Jon Benet irritating her brother Burke hitting around a rage and frustration. I mean he did have golf club. Instant years earlier could have gotten angry after strike assisted with the flashlight then ran and got in the parents who came and helped cover up. Yes I mean it is possible. Jon Benet seemed been alive when she was strangled. Oh so I mean that got man. You know what John Kills. His own daughter struggles to keep his nine year old son from getting caught but I guess there was the possible that she didn't appear to be alive that so many things and these aren't the only theories. There's also a bunch of conspiracy theories. Let's let's let's take a break from all this reality. Check in see what utter lunatics think happened on Today's idiots of the Internet take. We're GONNA bounce around for a second before looking at some comments under one video. Some people actually believe the Jon Benet. They never died. I mean it's necessarily or older. PD lovers theory they think she went into hiding then resurfaces pop star Katy. Perry is the real theory what the flip according this theory or or Katy Perry Song Wide Awake is believed to be an undercover message revealing the truth about her passes Jon Benet one of the manholes his theories that Katy Perry is six years older than Jon Benet the others for this one is kind of but but but not really a physical resemblance between Katy Perry and Jon Benet Ramsey as well as the kind of but not really assisting resemblance of both sets of parents. It's super dumb but some people believe it 'cause some people are idiots. One youtuber theorist went to great lengths to prove the similarities of their eyebrows rouse obviously means the same eyebrows different youtuber points out the lines and Katy Perry's autobiography. She wrote in reference to writing songs at an early age wjr not that I was one of those stage kids there was no Jon Benet Ramsey inside of me waiting to burst out. They think that's see she saying it's it's they don't understand fucking metaphors force analogies. got okay so another conspiracy is it the little dyed blonde haired girl was sacrificed in a satanic ritual of course course that shows up. There's all kinds of articles saying that a brotherhood term for devil is John Bet Excuse me which is quite similar to already unique first name but none of these articles seem to have sources who who is this Brotherhood probably just a term someone on Reddit when they're drunk and someone else riposted you know here we are another another satanic theory is that Jon Benet was killed in panic pedophile ring ritual nope move away from that one something aliens kilter really really paranoid and crazy people who think that aliens would hit her with a black object choker then right a weird ransom note that may make it look like maybe she'd been molested then move her body not call random then you get down this now. They're aliens. They have to make sure so complicated. No alien has ever been arrested that we know of ever you know are they're worried about covering the tracks also conspiracy variously links jonbenet's death with nine eleven year according to conspiracy the unharmed mind jonbenet was murdered by Royal Canadian Air Force Colonel Operating on behalf of major British and American corporations and the aluminum naughty because her father refused to assist America's enemies in planning nine eleven. Yes people believe grownups believed this people with more free time than me just like with the aliens why the fuck would trained assassins leave such a weird crime scene behind when I just have her disappear forever even in even arguably weird or theory. Is that some people some people think wolf killed her I want to repeat that some people believe their six-year was murdered by fucking Wolf Big Dog and and the boulder. PD couldn't figure that out an investigation involved. God knows how many officers dragged on for over twenty years did the wool shelter the wolf put on that little garage. You know the Wolf Change Your clothes the wolf right fucking note. How does the ransom note work into that good question? Stereo hold issues attacked by a wolf and her parents freaked out they can they get in trouble for not protecting their daughter from Wolf's offs because that's the thing so they covered up wolf murder by staging kidnapping anyone over the age of twelve who believes that should be sterilized forever not kidding Nelson the few youtube comments left under a video called program to kill Satanic Cover Part thirty-one Jon Benet case John and Patsy Ramsey here my favorite ever comments think tank supervisor Debra rhymer posts this reeks of multi generational M. K. Ultra mind control programming Lord helpless job De ed thanks for showing up multiple generations of people with their minds controlled by the CIA right all this training all this investment also a six year old can be killed a girl who oh you know could also just be run over if they wanted gun but nope this long complicated can lots of training mind-control weird shit takes decades kill. This kid obvious Ivy League sociology Professor Jerry Jeff I post trauma based mind control preparing her to become a Hollywood elite sex life and got out of hand. Maybe oh sure Jerry maybe or maybe you're fucking crazy. Hollywood elite sex slave won't hang corey feldman. You guys love each other. A mental member is to see post shadow government satanic cover up snuff film. CIA Christmas is a high blood sacrifice day. Thanks is to see you just really opened our eyes to your ability to throw at random conspiracy terms. I I can do that to to check us out right. I I see your terms arrays you agenda Twenty one Denver Airport Builder Burgers Bohemian Growth Flat Earth Wizards probably not even a troll Michelle Post. I am sure Hillary Clinton is a part of all of this. Oh man think about fun Michelle beat of hang out with if she actually believes Shit this stupid I love kills me the killary stuff what people believed the specific details they believe the shit like the Hillary Clinton who was the fucking can first lady in one thousand nine hundred six time away from White House duties to kill a six year old pageant contestant and bolder than higher body in the basement. You'd think someone may have noticed the first lady learn about the neighborhood. Maybe not she was in the White House in secret service agents never let her out of their consign public. You can get sterilizes well Michelle for sure forever any kids you have need to be taken from you. Finally an Kogi knee tow just gibberish ex post the word Burke as defined in the World World Book Dictionary from Nineteen Seventy four is to kill by suffocation or strangulation. The second definition is to conceal that actually is true true does that's true and the word coincidence means of remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent casual casual connection causal connection and the second definition of the word lunatic extremely further foolish or an eccentric person. That's you kid wasn't named Burke so he could grow up a strangle his sister you paranoid Fuck Waku. Stop a good job. Youtube sounds better with your life. The Dif- definition of the word flustered mush mouth struggles goes doing so well for half and then I got tripped up but I felt good I felt good. Just take a little break from the heaviness just just look into other maniacs scout here okay so final thoughts we likely we will never know who killed Jon Benet Ramsey. Now tons of books have been written by tons of people involves suspects detectives private investigators on and on and on and the one thing they all agree agree on his nothing. Maybe that's another reason cases fascinating for so long we meet sacks do not like unsolvable puzzles. We like answers case. It feels like there should be some answers but there aren't any nothing definitive if I was forced to pick I've thought a lot about this last week I would say the Jami was molested and then her brother did it. I would say say that it was an accident and at the parents freaked out and then decided to cover it up in a in a you know panicked attempt to protect their son. It doesn't make a lot of sense it does make the most sense we the patsy wrote the ransom note John Intentionally messed up the crime scene done the the body the throughout you know the investigators here's with various nonsense burke was not asleep no John and Patsy smart successful people maybe even in their shock you know and trying to pull themselves together to protect their Sonnen Donna these come up with his fucking convoluted plan once they start on that road. Maybe their word they'll be implicated as well now. They're going to suffer also I. I don't know I you think I had to pick. That's what happened. It seems to be the least ugly truth of anything that could have happened. As far as I can take you know accidental blow from her brother far better faith and some pervert breaking and terrifying Jon Benet before she died terrible for the parents of it is true you know key magid having two kids have one killed the other who for parents. Maybe that maybe that is the worst scenario than anything else I described to start this suck so recipe Shamanee Ramsey. I hope it was quick and painless. Whatever happened time now for top five takeaways time away number one child beauty pageants pageants are weird and gross to me? Hey you think your kid is cute. I get it but maybe just telling that maybe just tell them to give them healthy. self-esteem without dress them up like you know pedo Porn Stars number to the murder of the six year old beauty pageant winner Jon Benet will never be solved despite over a thousand pieces of evidence thousands of man hours investigating from the initial selling of the crime scene by Janis family and their a friend to the lack of concrete evidence to pin any one person to crime to know investigators seemingly being able to agree on anything in the death of several suspects. This mystery will remain a mystery number three. Why did the story becomes a popular? I America was captivated by the death of a pretty little girl because a lot of American meats acts worship beauty. We care more about pretty people than lady nets which maybe work on changing that bit number four if brother Burke didn't have anything to do with job as murder then besides her he's the biggest biggest victim and all of this his family thrown into the centering of a media shit show and he himself became a hated murder suspect at the age of nine in September of two thousand sixteen to honor the twentieth anniversary of Jon Benet Ramsey Death Burke Ramsey came forward even out of the public for a long time wanted to share his side of the story for the first time Dr Phil Ramsey poured out his heart Dr Phil describe the emotions he underwent saying I remember the viewing the casket was small. Her eyes were closed. I want to honor her memory by doing this interview. I don't want anyone else to forget. He also said in the interview that for the last twenty years I wanted to grow up like a normal kid which does not include going in front of TV. Cameras Curly Burke Ramsey's a computer analyst who works remotely from his home based office man. Maybe I was wrong about best case being burke actually killing her now hoping he didn't do it this case every day. I've researched it. I suspect Beck something else. fucking aliens okay this Aliens Lunardi Aliens. Maybe that's it number. Five New Info another theory has been popping up more and Moore's claims that the murder of Jon Benet is linked to the murders of two other little girls in Colorado and Hawaii retired police investigator James Benesch is of the belief that the murder of seven-year-old Tracy Murray Neef nineteen eighty-four and killing a four year old lacy ruff nineteen ninety-three have something to do with John as murder as far as the same killers. All the girls were between the ages ages a foreign seven reduction in similar fashion. He thinks they were killed by brothers Aaron Todd Sean Sean Sean Lau Areo Sean Lau when Tracy jean-yves was kidnapped to nine hundred eighty four members of the Sean Lau family were living close to tracey's house Thornton also they were living close to lacey rough when she was abducted and killed inqui- after Lacey's father discovered her body todd called. The police said his brother Aaron abducted sexually assaulted and killed lacy. Aaron was convicted for all of this life in prison so he couldn't have killed Oh Jon Benet he was in jail but Aaron had previously been in juvenile detention for sexual assaults that he allegedly committed as a minor in Jordan. which is you know very near Boulder and when former detective benesch spoke with the person Aaron had gone to juvenile detention for assaulting she alleged that it was actually someone else Sean How's relative who had assaulted her she'd been pressured to you say it was Aaron Benesch believe Erin conviction may now be called into question suspects? The actual culprit may be involved in the murder of Jon Benet. He thinks that culprit maybe the other brother taught Zombie can todd aired guy man so many fucking people in this thing was Zombie was found dead in nineteen. ninety-six is unclear whether Sean Lau family were based but in May that year you're a male member of the family was arrested for salt as well as for domestic violence at a county close to boulder this means. It's man could have you know been living in Jon Benet vicinity may one of the other relatives it came to visit him. It's a stretch I know the stretch I know but it's the latest the never ending Shicho list of suspects someone is. I'm sure considering writing another book about the Jon Benet Ramsey case away like I know way more than I did about this case before we started started but I also feel no closure. Oh my heck I don't flip and like it. Maybe someday our future robot overlords going to figure out what happened. Jon benet still they don't the Jon Benet Ramsey murder case has been sucked hope he found it interesting entertaining thank you to the Times the team thanks to Quinn to suck Lindsey comments my scared to death co host. Thanks for listening to that again. Thanks to high priestess suck harmony veldkamp reverend. Dr Joe Horse Got Johnson Paisley. Thanks bitter APP design crew new update almost here two three three more rounds of Beta testing this past week and so far no more bugs fingers crossed. Dare I say new update maybe by the time you hear this or just maybe a few days away. Thanks also to access apparel script. Keeper Zach Flannery hope you feel better. He's been little stick thanks to Heather Knowledge Ninja Rylander for additional research judge and what's up next week. I don't know for the first time I don't know it's GonNa be surprised still deciding time travels in two weeks and that space has voted for that. That'll be fun different one next week. ooh It's got find out no surprised in the show GONNA stick with a would love to end on you time now for time. SUCKER UPDATES Times Mirror. I update is from Melissa. We're only GONNA do a few day because you got some. We have some big ones. Some whoppers thought this was a good one senate a few weeks ago some heartfelt food for Thought Melissa writes Dan I began listening to they had a great deal of time stationed at Fort Knox training over the summer. Thank you for your service. One of the other trainees enjoyed your show. I have as well maybe a little sick myself as I'm a the longer I'm in the military the more differences I've seen with people I'm writing today because you've mentioned several times the love you have your children how the time you have with them. After divorce gorsuch changed I hope you and your ex co parent well. We're lucky we were very amicable. It's half and half joint custody which is nice. Writing is a woman who is also a father's rights advocate. I Co parent well with my daughter's father and my husband's struggles to co parent with his ex and their seven year old and three year old daughters. He's a motivator for why I'm a member of the father's rights movement in in two soldiers I deployed with who committed suicide after losing everything in divorce battles including replaceable stuff but more importantly access to their children how not deadbeat not abusive not anything bad about these men that would prevent them from co-parenting the one thing that made them unfit parents was having a penis and this is typical in Alabama twenty two states thus far have passed equal parenting as standard unless one parent is deemed unsafe with criminal or drug history as it should be. I wanted to share a news story about a young man that fought for time with his child fought against the mothers. There's history of abuse and neglect how does young child die in the mother's care then have his rights of free speech stripped jailed for speaking out against judge. Thank you check that out too much to go into detail here today because we got a lot more of what you said to share here it varies by state and county by county takes five percent of each penny clipper child support most yet a father's pockets many fifty fifty parenting parenting plans include wave ARY include waving child support in favor of pain directly to childcare provisions at each parents home and one or both parent providing insurance splitting medical costs. Yes you know the exact thing you would do. If you're parenting under the same roof I think this leads less unwed pregnancies less babies meal tickets and if dads are not not only allowed but kind of push by society to be in babies lives at conception maybe less babies made until the man is really sure sorry can't can't account fulfill birth control but I know men who have had babies and made the statement that the state can't take more out of their check already do if these types of men are expected to provide half of the physical go care has the diapers half the waking up etc.. We not only create more well rounded children but we keep the maturity level of some parents down Alabama has tried to pass similar bills to the one Kentucky he just passed his share for shared custody as default it gets passed in the Senate but rejecting the house too much money the state would lose my husband planned both children and his marriage tried for babies attended the money loses all the federal government pay subsidies for stage collects known support order Scott. My husband planned both children in his marriage tried for babies attended doctor's visit Sheridan parenting responsibilities until the day his ex ask for divorce and her provision of care were met. He spent eighteen hours a week with two daughters that comes out to thirty nine days out of three hundred and sixty five a little more than ten point. Five percent gave mom the House no equity asked pays child support was made to feel every move he made was wrong and we'll be punished. We put six thousand dollars into a lawyer were able to get close to forty percent of the time but still not labeled as shared custody. MOM has default and veto rights we will go back to court annually until the youngest is nineteen asking for those rights the constitutional guaranteed rights rights. This should be a no brainer. I don't care if it causes one hundred thousand dollars. We're also lucky with our income. MOM is as well. Could you please talk on these points. Please point out to Casey Anthony's of the mother population. Yeah dads can be bad to the abuse at the hands of Stepdad's allowed to happen by women yet. Good dads pushed away so many songs come to mind father father of mine from ever clear all these daddy issues how many and the courts are fostering them. If you've ever seen the dad crying over his kids a hard military man with tears streaming down his face because of course tripped everything he fought for if you've ever seen a bitch ass mom who made the funeral of his into a circus and a pity party for her if you've ever seen a four four year old receive a folded flag not knowing her mom daddy away from him catching from able to provide a roof over his own head even working two jobs if you knew the feelings one of these these soldiers struggles with knowing other women are okay doing this to their kids fathers that I hope to hear podcastone supporting to good parents being in the military I can only lobby so much but I think if we could fix fix this one issue we can lower the overall rate of suicide in the military and a single young. Dad's kept out of their children's lives. Thank you suck master. Keep on suck and Melissa listen. Wow yeah thanks Melissa arena of so many great points. I mean that's such a big problem. Society Absentee Fathers and then the courts do in many cases foster that which is very unfortunate. Don't don't keep good dad's away from their kids. They should have equal rights. This is something you don't hear about a lot. In the push for equal rights equal parenting rights for father's equality needs used to work in every direction. The mothers are more important to their children than fathers is inherently sexist is wrong. I've seen some fathers far more maternal nurturing instincts than than some others should be case by case you know hearing loss of fathers rights connected to a military suicide is especially tragic support to good parents put the kids first and divorced forces well. I can proudly say the my ex and I both did that. A proudly swallowed a fair amount of pride in my divorce and did what was best for Kinda Monroe and I know a lot of other dads have been the same. Don't don't hurt your kids by trying to hurt your ex. It's about the most selfish fucking thing you can do in life helps. You hope someone who needs to hear this message does here. Thanks Melissa wouldn't have shared it if it wasn't for you. Keep keep fighting hail fucking Nimrod now that a lot of great updates about mormonism Mormons Non Mormons like Melissa most were very long detailed messages only time time for for one of those before we get to it quick Mormon update that answer something for me from Ryan Brewster who writes hello there in regards to Martin Harris taking the first draft of the translated plates it is believed when Martin took the pages to show his skeptical wife Lucy. She held the pages ransom and said if the gold plates are real and Joseph is really translating them he should be able to do it again word for word. This is why Joseph said he couldn't translate the same plates ever again and the translation changed so the pages may not have been lost lost but just kept away from Martin and Joseph's they may be lost now but I thought this detail was super interesting and worth mentioning Love The podcast Ryan Brewster. Wow That is interesting entity Ryan. I was confused about that part. I couldn't get the answer they want that makes so much more sense because how would it help Martin lose them. The super important papers now his wife token Tokyo wanted Joseph to recreate them so she could see if he was telling the truth and he didn't said God didn't want repeat story so either God gave a New Vision or you know he just knew that if if he tried to repeat initial prophecy be caught up in a lie very very interesting thank you for sharing that and finally a very nice update from some Mormon time suckers than spaces and and Longtime Standard Fans Caroline Park Mitchell who writes devout Mormons and we still love you you frigging heck spun mother trigger longtime listener. It's my first in writing in this topic seemed to import did not reach out some clarification for your most recent episodes my husband and I are devout members the church Jesus Christ latter-day Saints Mormons and we listened to your episode in Mormonism and you'll be pleased to know that we love you and time suck we will listen to your stand up from the beginning of your standup shows in Salt Lake City in the most recent lifetime suck we will continue to be loyal spaces as we have since day one of your thank you we also wanted to help clarify a few misconceptions nares and thank you for that as my favorite kind updates we were both raise mormon but my mom converted to the church when she was seventeen and is the only member of the church in her family so we understand that to other some of the stories of how the Church was founded can be hard to believe so we weren't offended by how hard you weren't Joseph Smith each person has to decide for themselves if they believe in we by no means plan to try and convince you you mentioned the episode around the nineteen forty seven minute mark that in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight when Spencer W Kimball received revelation to allow black men and boys to be ordained into the priesthood this is true but he also lifted a ban on women and girls being allowed to enter latter day saint temples that parties clarification although there may have been some restrictions on black women and girls going to the temple which of course is not fair. All of the women and girls have always. It's been allowed to go to the temple. This is especially true because the temple is where we get married also called sealed so it's absolutely necessary for women to be allowed in. I just want to clarify in case anyone had interpreted that as meaning all women have been excluded from tap services since that is certainly not the case the second point. No one can truly judge another person's worthiness but we definitely don't think you are a son of perdition perdition. Here's a good article explains what that truly means. The short version is sons of perdition are those who had assured perfect knowledge of the truth than voluntarily turned from it the first requirement Dan to become part of this group have been members of the LDS Church after that they would have to go have the truth revealed to them with such sureness and clarity that there would be no doubt out of their minds about the truthfulness of the Mormon Gospel so basically it's impossible for you to perdition because you never became a member of the Church and I assume you haven't had any visions or revelations that have made you absolutely certain the LDS church is true and decided to actively work against so hack yeah not being sent to Satan's outta realm. I like that part of the update a lot three I have to say I was disappointed by how you just glazed over the Hans Mill Mask around one twenty five. I appreciate you mentioned. It thought you would have at least comment on the terrible atrocities that occurred there. No matter what religion someone belongs to the they do not deserve to be murdered in cold blood after they surrendered how their bodies mutilated their wives assaulted their houses pillaged many accredited story states these tragedies more inflicted on Mormons that day on many of their cases saw start bothered me that you feel dimension that none of these men were ever investigated or prosecuted it despite there being eye witnesses and numerous council what happened this was made even worse by the fact that Missouri State government was so heavily involved persecution and violence against the Mormons. If you spend so much time I pointed out how silly some of these things we believe are should spend a few minutes expressing how wrong it is that anyone would suffer so much because their beliefs yes. I'm I'm doing that now part of that was it was just such a big topic to pull off a week that biggest episode yet I just I had to cut some narrative. Details weren't things that I was just I didn't have time to thoroughly the explore and that's one of them so yes not not intentional to whitewash it being settled also like to thank you for your kind words about Mormons. I'm glad that you've enjoyed your interaction with us. MHM Oh heck yes I have my husband and I truly believe that the best way to gauge the worth of any organization religious secular even the curious is by the good they do in the lives they live. I like that I did a lot sorry. This is a long just want to let you know that we appreciate you doing your very best to be impartial. You haven't offended all of us. You're loyal spaces caroline said like the last Oh oh Shit Carlin you correct me new it fucking. Ui Frick it up I flip it Carlin said like the last name of comedian George Carlin yes and Parker Mitchell so many messages. That's just like that. We're sending so many devout Mormons who listen to everything I said and are okay and we'll listen this week Kudos to you in my opinion is so admirable especially today when it feels like so how many people wanted to get outraged right and this would be something new be worse. I said this on the secret sauce last Thursday but I want to say it again here before leave. I applaud many of you Mormons for being able what's laugh your own religion especially those of you who are deeply faithful to takes a lot of strength and confidence a lot of courage. I think they'd be able to laugh ourselves. As very important life is so much fun for all all of us when we're all not offended all the time you know what if we lived in a world where we all joke and be reverend and talk things out learn about each other not get all bent out of shape over the opinion of someone else and and not have that knee jerk reaction of storm off taking our toys run home crying we here's something we don't like to agree with the not talk about it later. Our world is good very good. But how much better would it be. If that was the reality we lived in one we can disagree and get the heck and flip over it. My goodness Hail Eq- Mormons. Thank you for sending that in thanks time soccer ninety two now we all did. That's all for this week another other long one Dang it. I blame the script keeper two of US doing research together this too much shit. We could fuck in sucked into you. Don't trust your little ones enclosed fit for rebellious Elliot's seventeen year old parade them out on a catwalk this week and just most importantly guys. Gosh Dang Heck would you just keep on sucking after B._P._I. Specializes in taking your hard to
MMISWP Mini-Episode: Who Killed JonBent? (Featuring Sue Smith)
"Hey, guys, welcome back to mother Maze Super podcast today we are doing who killed. Jon Benet for those of you who are not familiar. I am obsessed with this case. This is probably the first crime case that I got really into. It was the middle of summer and I couldn't stop reading tabloid magazine Zimbabwe I would take my money and go straight to the store every single week and pick up all the new tabloids, so it's a huge part of my life in some ways and today we have agreed gassed sue Smith from scam while. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk about Jon Benet. Yeah I know I love her so much. What's your personal relationship with this case? On my God so of course I it happening when I was a kid, but then like. Three years ago when I got married sixty minutes, documentary came out like right after I got married when we were on our honeymoon. Made my husband pause everything so that we could set the time aside to watch documentary with. Varner spits. It's so good and. Yeah I I kind of know a lot not to brag. Right I'm glad because yeah I watched all of those when they came out to. I mean it's never settled. This case is just never settled well with me in any way. And why should it right I mean? This? Little girl was murdered in her home on Christmas. On the night of Christmas. Leg Her. There's all this mystery surrounding it I I when I first started taking information about this case like I was a kid. There's so much so as an adult rewatching in rereading all this stuff. It makes so much more sense to me. But I am I loved I loved those specials so much I especially loved the CBS one. Even though a lot of people think about one was a little. Racing it was very skewed I've heard even people who are Burke Ramsey murder. Her true Thursday that they felt like there was a lot of cheap shots and that, and also just you know, I. Mean I think we'll never forget kid hitting. All covered with ham with a hammer. Oh my God! How could we forget? But I mean you know it's an airtight argument for why Burke did it I. Think Yeah. Burke ended up suing CBS for like millions of dollars after that. Yeah, he's settled I think he sued for one hundred and seventy five million, and then he, or maybe was closer to three hundred because I remember thinking at the time like at best tailgate. Get half of that and you know they're so. They settled out of court so I'm sure he did very well, but they're so. I don't know there's. Like in order to sue someone for that amount of money, just like my understanding is like when you're suing someone for damages, you have to prove that that's what you lost like. You potentially lost three, hundred, twenty, five, million or whatever. Invite world was Burke Ramsey about to make three hundred twenty five million dollars. Yeah, because when you're doing for damages, you're basically paying lake. You ruined my life like this is what I stood to do in my life and you took that away from me, so you can't just sue for an arbitrary number. You have just sue for what your losses are. I never knew that but I don't know he's like a big computer programmer. Something so maybe or. Pain and suffering. Maybe I mean three hundred, twenty, five million like I didn't realize he was frigging. Bill Gates over there, but yeah, I mean I also felt so stupid when I was watching all these specials, because deep down, I felt like there was going to be a concrete answer him and If, that was the case. They're probably wouldn't even be a TV show because they would have burke Ramsey in jail so I'm thinking you know the whole time. I'm watching this I'm like. Oh, they're going to finally. Tell me who the killer is and like there's just no way to know I. Consider you know when you think about what heaven is you I've always said it's two things. It's like watching every single real housewives franchise. Footage. Louis, raw footage, and being able to see what happened in the Ramsey. House, dot night. Like I WANNA see every minute of it because I am team. Burke killed you know. Her but I also detective loose Smith. Quite a while character was not expecting what I saw when we were watching this movie I don't know why I thought he would be like a boring guy. Because of course he's not. He's like sort of like rogue type detective guy like floats around, and just is like this legend at finding you know the truth in these cases, but you know there's ice started to really. I felt a little bit. For the for the police in the moment, because I could see both sides of it. If I was a cop, I would probably go like well a+ be. We'll see so obviously someone in the house killed them. Well I feel for the ramseys because it's like the mom. Patsy if she was like. If anything happens to burke I'll just I like that, and then she would she would have the other kid taken away from her essentially if they convicted burke doing it, so it's like I. Don't know she was in a hard place. While when Patsy Ramsey, it's interesting. 'cause I am of the belief that Patsy Ramsey is like a supreme narcissist or was not to speak ill of the dead, but I'm probably going to be doing a lot of that in this. Piece. Yeah, but I while she's not definitely not resting peacefully I mean. I really also am one of the people who think that the cancer was. Probably, a direct result of the stress that came with all of this. But I almost felt like when she says to Linda in the cafeteria. This is when later on when work is getting. Interviewed by the like the child psychologist, she says you know if I lose burke like I have no reason to live. I always viewed it as a manipulation. I can see that. Because like it's you know you reasoning with her woman to woman like she was making it clear what the stakes are for her and it wasn't you know like? Why was she afraid about losing burke? You know what I mean like. We know why, but why? Why was she? Patsy is the one who really tells a lot. If I'm being honest with you but I think that we don't get a clear picture of her character in any of these documentaries or in this movie because. She seems so pulled back and withdraw. They show the CNN footage of her interview with Larry King, and it's like she's like drugged. She's like Zan or something, so I feel like we don't know who she really is. So that could be a genuine statement or could be a manipulative statement, I mean Oh, the fans for shore like I was GonNa. Talk about that when we got to the clip of it, but like when I was a kid. I had no idea what being zand out. Look like and now I'm an adult I'm like. fucking Zana's dog like she's just like not even in her right mind. For some reason. I didn't realize that I don't know. I kinda thought like benzoate were a new thing. That's so naive of me, because obviously not but for I didn't realize that it was so pervasive like you could just go get Xanax Day of your daughter being held So that's sort of like took me back a little bit. But Yeah I agree you know at one point during these this movie I just wrote on my notes like these people are fucking weird like this is the weirdest family like they're just such strange ducks and I can't imagine what happened to them. Happening to anyone else in a weird way leg. It's just they are the people that would have this unsolved murder of their daughter forever. They're just. They're the right breed of strange there so. But okay, so there is to lifetime movies about Jon Benet. This one is my favorite in the Senate has probably one of the creepiest devices they use a narrator, yes. Jon Benet a little girl to sort of paint. The picture of her murder and I'm going to play the clip. In a second, but basically. They per trae. Her is having a very childlike understanding of what happened to her which? Makes Sense. She is a child, but she wasn't so naive that she didn't. She probably wouldn't have had more. Understanding may also act like she doesn't remember anything. After she went to bed. and I just think it's such a disservice to the story and so creepy to like think that she would want to have a hand any of this right right. I'M GONNA. Play the first clip thirty seconds to one twenty five. This is kind of like bedtime story. Unsupported time. There was a girl named gene. She looked like a princess. She wasn't. Jewish system normal girl who wanted to play outside and ride your bike. Highly. I! Owning A. For. Her and my son and. That's the last thing I remember. Seeing those words. And I fell asleep. Remember anything after. That God, so creepy, it's it's so creepy. obviously okay we got. We got the version of this down. We know what this is going to be. It's going to be a freak show, so then we cut to December twenty, six, nineteen, ninety, six at five, fifty, two am, and we see the nine one one operator taking this call from Patsy Ramsey which we all know very well by now, so we cut back then to thirty hours later. Can I just say like? How much therapy do you think nine one one operators got? It's gotta be so traumatic. Imagine having job. It's one in Lake does sort of unsung hero jobs I feel like because you are internalizing so much horror, and eventually you probably will find out what happened on the other end of that call, but I'm sure you're left with a lot of stuff. You don't really know like you can't really follow every case you got. You know so. It's very I. Every time I see someone taking on one caller even just listened to one I feel so bad for the operator, yeah! But yes, so we go to thirty hours later. It's at the police station and you know we find out that this narcotics detective is going to be put onto this case because he can be the one who's you know possibly able to solve this puzzle. And just with the nine one one call, so this is. This is very nitpick. Nick piggy of me, but she doesn't say her name. She just says I'm the mother and then at the end of the scene. The nine one one operator is like okay, patsy. Thank you very much and I'm like damn it. She didn't say her name. How do you know her name was patsy and made me sub. Funny I was I. Thought it was actually the call. I don't know if it was actually the call it sounded to. The quality didn't sound. Shitty enough to be the the call. I got you I got you? Yeah, well I mean lifetime. Have some explaining to do. They do this through out where they show like stuff that looks like old footage, but it might be old footage, but it might not be old footage, so they kind of do that throughout. Yeah. They definitely didn't use the Chris Watts approach that they used in a lifetime movie where they were able to cut in a lot of real stuff it to the point where it is a little bit eerie when they show Steve's book cover and like the tabloid covers. All of that was very real. I feel like I. Remember seeing some of that stuff but yeah, so you know they're dealing with A. A lot over at the station right now and you know they find out at this point that the family is trying to take the body to Atlanta for proper funeral, and he tries to use this opportunity to basically leverage in the. He wants an interview with them, but they haven't been to cooperative with the interview. There's a lot of I mean so much of this case falls into the you know. It's all about this family that was supposedly because they're wealthy and have money around town or whatever they are considered to be local celebrities almost and. I kinda just don't understand why lake there are affluent people everywhere right? It seems like there was no shortage of affluent people where they lived. Why were they getting? All of these Special Treatment It was really. I don't know well depicted here, but. So basically, they find out that Linda. The COP. Who is there the morning that they discovered her they were it was a nightmare. She handled everything incredibly bad badly and like Linda. I have to say I always disliked her immensely and sort of retailing's of this story. Because I was just like what is up with this Mukta. She fucked it up, but you can also really see that there babysitting like twelve adults who are absolutely hectic like every single one of them. It's like a game of Sims or something where you have to track what each person is doing at any given time and make sure that they're not fucking up and. I guess she could have. Honestly there were so many times where I was yelling at my screen like tell them to sit on the couch with their hands on their fucking knees like get the fuck out of the house. But why are they having like this sort of bereavement ceremony already happening in the house, so we go back to the Ramsey's house twenty nine hours earlier to see how this all really played out for them. we see them. With the notes spread out on the floor and we hear Jon Benet say that's Mommy and Daddy. Mommy was missed West Virginia once. She let me at lots of pageants to. She said I looked so pretty in a t ARA. They don't really talk too much about the pageant stuff in this movie which I like because they really talked about that in the nineties, ally and I even think that it was inspiration for toddlers and Tiaras show which I love I think is a great show, but they almost in the ninety s like fetish is her were like Oh, she was wise beyond her years like. sexualize her in a way. That like was very uncomfortable. This was when news coverage was different, but not in this movie, but I'm glad they didn't talk too much about the pageant stuff. Yeah I think honestly most of the pageant. Steph speaks more to like a what's going on with Patsy. You know Germany was not like a super sexualize. In my I think that she was pageant. sexualize and most parents who put their kids in pageantry. are a little off. And maybe that's not necessarily fair true, but I agree. There's got to be something. Wrong with you if you're chasing Nah, but then again you know patsy was like in in the pageant. World herself like this is a thing in their family. I'm watching dirty John. Right now I'm recapping it for my quarantine podcast and I also listened to the. Full podcast. I'm like so behind the ball on it, but I cannot believe the sort of generational destruction that exists in not family that always like it it. Yeah has been so distracting mind-blowing for me and so frustrating that we're never going to get answers about that, either like we're never going to hear what the fuck is wrong with Arlene Deborah's mom. We're never going to know right. It's insane. okay, so this next clip is when the cops get there five twenty five to six three. Mr Ramsey listen care for your group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. If you want her to see nineteen, ninety seven, you must follow our instructions to the letter. Says they're being watched. Talk to the cops anyone has beheaded. Commander that word any point. You'll people treatment quarterback. Okay for other exit points. I mean if they're influential, doesn't trading them accordingly. Mean like giving their case extra care and treatment. Yeah, I, mean this. This ransom note is just insane like. It is found to be. Isn't. It found to be part of like a movie or something like that this the path of a movie. Yeah, so I forget exactly what movie it was, but John and patsy would watch the movie of the week every week, and this was never made a big deal of it was like an action movie, and some of the phrasing that was in the letter, was also from the movie, and it had like it was reminiscent of the plot a little bit. And that's. Exactly what the note sounds like. Wasn't it dirty? Rotten scoundrels or something something like that some very well known like crime movie. I almost I don't I thought it was like A. Like. Denzel, Washington type thriller, I don't know why I thought that I could look it up. but I'm holding my Mike and I really. I don't want to. I but in the future I will. I'll look that up and included in the description for sure so okay. That's that note is it sounds like two people trying to pull something off and doing too much on the process. Ya Yeah I think even if you WANNA, take it like as truth of what's inside it. The most crazy thing is that the ransom is one hundred eighteen thousand dollars, which is John Ramsey's the exact amount of his annual bonus at at work, which is just crazy, a yeah, and like he had just gotten it, but also I mean so. There is a little bit floated at some point about John Having a disgruntled employee who would maybe be privy to information like that, but. Why not ask for more like a child's worth way more than one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars like right. Given for inflation. I'm sure you know. The Colorado market is much different than Los Angeles one hundred eighteen thousand dollars seems like such. It's like petty cash to them I mean give me a million at least totally so The COP checks out around the house. He looks in the basement and like there's this door that he opens. That has some Kate some cans of paint on the floor, but the rest of the room is dark. And it's important to remember that so John Explains Basically. Jami went to bed that night after the Christmas party the cop notices as he's like sort of explaining this to him that there is a gigantic piece day in on her bed and he's like. Oh, she was a bad weather. And then gets like gives them a peek at Bir, who sleeping in his bed. The bed wedding thing has always I don't bummed me out. Dude like. At. What point that night did she pay? The bed legged at all a believer in the idea that. Patsy freaked out because she just said like sort of had it with like the bed wedding and it was you know she was late? I always wondered if they were drunker than they made. It seem when they came home from the Christmas party like I kind of feel like that does seem like a snap moment to me. Yeah maybe I never thought about it like that, but wasn't there something with Burke and feces like wiping feces on her or something like that, too, he yeah, he will burke one of his many behaviors that he displayed like playing with his shit and one time he did I. Think Wipe it on her wall and maybe even her bed, yeah! I don't think he you know I. Don't think he peed in her bed that day but I don't remember that being a huge thing like there was like pee on her nightgown or anything I. Don't writing that. That was a thing, so did they? Were they not changing her sheets I don't know I. Don't know, but they There's a lot of stuff in this movie that they don't really answer. Count four or come back to, and that's one of them. And then she also had male DNA in her underwear, which they don't really account for at all either so. It's. Never. Say while with me not that it should not like. There's anyone that should be like well. You know I can sleep tonight anyway. I mean that's pretty alarming stuff and she did show signs of like sexual trauma, essentially. and. got to wonder what the fuck was going on there I know what in the in the CBS Documentary Werner Spitz dismissed it or like whoever dismissed it as somebody who made it could be anything like that. The DNA could be the person who manufactured the underwear or something like that like what really? I don't know yeah, I mean if it was like new underwear and they took it straight out of the package and put it on her I could see that being a possibility. But yeah. I mean if they didn't have any any. More anything more substantial than that I. Don't know what they could do so patsy is making a big show of crying in the living room, and I say a big show because she quite obviously looks through her fingers to see if the COP is like watching her performance, I if I tried to cover up that my. Son had murdered my daughter. I wouldn't even I wouldn't even know how to act like I. Would I fuck in fumble that? Hard I would be the worst at lying about something like that. Oh my God. I think it didn't come naturally to them. Which is why they were just such odd characters, but The family friends show up the white family, and these are like they're BFF's. And PRISCILA, so you know the cops don't really say anything. When all these people charge into the living room till it come, hang out with them, which is always struck me as so that they even thought to invite friends over. And they stayed in the house, and supposedly they're waiting for this phone call. That's GONNA. Come from the people who are holding her hostage, the smaller and faction. Yeah, yes. So fleet looking for Jon Benet and he's calling her name around the house, and like this was just so bizarre, because like the way it was depicted like it's just like. Why would you do that like it seems so strange? at the stake seemed like it'd already escalated to a point that there was no way this little girl was hiding in the house. Lay Alive right, so he's bought a suitcase near a small window in the garage. Do you know what the? The name of those windows are now, but like little basement windows. Yeah, that's what I would call them in He sees a piece of glass next to the suitcase on the floor, and then he puts it on the window ledge. So there's DNA there now. That piece of evidence is compromised, and like you know at this point like these people are sort of young enough that they would probably be exposed in pop culture to the concept of tampering with a crime scene and I, think a lot of these things that were happening were accidental You know he probably just absent, mindedly picked up a piece of glass. Put It on the Ledge, but these are all the reasons why we have no fucking idea. What happened in that house, right? So patsy of retail is the story of how she realized. Dominate was missing, and it already doesn't align with the story that she told the COPS. The events are out of order. She originally said she checked her room and then came downstairs and found the note, and now she's telling Priscila that she came down. She found the note and then she checked her room. I. If this actually happened to me, I probably would have a hard time keeping track of everything that had happened i. You know it probably won't be the most reliable narrator myself, but flea continues to look around and he gets to like this. You know small room. That's mostly empty again. It's just a stray paint cans, so then John is going to wake up burke and send him to Flint House for the day. They don't want him to Oh. Upset Patsy as a really know what's going on, so the police go in and take photos of his room. Steve is like you know in the situation room at the station. Posting pictures of each one of them in setting up probably one of the most. Serial killer style like tracing map things that I've ever seen in a lifetime my God it was incredible incredible. It was insane. I know when you think about the sheer amount of information. We just had as the public about this case like I can't imagine God i. Wish I could read the indictment so. Yes, so then Jon Benet says these are the people who come when bad things happen to good people I wish they could help me remember what happened that night so I was soon that was some sort of like social worker, group or something, but then these people fucked up the crime scene more than anyone. It were advocates or something like victims advocates. They were called a yeah, and they all had like these sort of you knew they were because they had these name tags on, and I will say. I? Watched this movie on my computer. So you know it's obviously wasn't the most gigantic screen, but a problem for me throughout this movie. Is that the lighting? Makes people look different in every scene like I couldn't have seen Steve's face more fucking times in more confused about it like every single time. I saw him I just thought he was another detective same. Because they also didn't do a great job of like establishing the names of people like someone who I'm just referring to my notes, Steve's partner, but I don't know who the fuck. He is like who the guy was glasses. The guy with a beard who looks like TV Dad Yeah with the yeah I know who you mean maybe says I don't know I. That's always a problem in granted. This is based off of real life, so they were probably aiming to achieve more than they were like to establish different people, but yeah, so they asked a fleet to return the camera with. The photos that they took from dinner the night earlier. So Flint in a fleet and Burgo like they ride together, and you know he's keeps looking in the back seat at Burke and sees that he's just sort of shocked out he doesn't seem to really care or begins -cerned most kids would be asking a million questions if they were woken up with police on their home. And you know he's basically laid berkshires concerned about his video games. Burke doesn't give a shit about anything like that. It's it's what's so crazy about this kid. Is that people you know? Keep talking about how burke like you know. Always just a kid like kids react differently. I think most kids are mostly inquisitive. Yeah, he's a burke is a weird little dude I. Don't know if he's like on the autism spectrum or what, but he's fucking weird. Yeah I. Agree died with the theories that he might be more on the spectrum because it's just. It's like the most generous thing. I can do honestly Mr. -ssume. That he's neuro atypical so another detective at seven fifty four PM so Linda. This is where Jami introduces us to Linda who was the one running the House that day and she said she seems like she's really nice like she really cares so. Flee wants to know are maybe there's another family friend there I get. I couldn't tell these fucking people. People. Yeah wants to know. If the note was written after midnight. They're going to be calling the next day. in Linda's like well either way. It can't hurt to have the whole setup here so we can do this in like what about the nineteen? What about foreign faction like Any of those things mean anything to you? John They're both boches like I. Don't fuck a now, so then patsy says he was their housekeeper because she did recently ask for a raise, and she didn't get it, and she has a key and at that point I was like fuck you like, don't want. My housekeeper is like my fucking best friend dude. I can't imagine selling out your housekeeper at a time like this Shosha. But so yeah, so anytime. The police like pick something up in the house to like bring it to evidence or even like dust for fingerprints. One of these victim advocates like comes along and wipes it up like they're actively destroying this crime scene so the white family That's their PRISCILA patsies. Best friend looks kind of suspicious about what she's seeing. Something about all. This doesn't sit well with patsy. Something doesn't sit well without Patricia. Basically. She's watching patsy preying on the couch and she's just sort of like. It seems like odd behavior to her. And it is like when you when you know your best friend and all of a sudden. They're like taking notes from a different playbook. That's something. Only a best friend would really know. I think in this moment we get the weird zoom in as well where like throughout this whole first part? She's wearing patsies wearing this gigantic cross, and then when she finds out her daughter is dead. We got a weird legs zoom in on her face, and her robot is as she's praying, and it's so fucking creepy to me. Dude and not seen. She literally looked like Khloe Feinman. I think that's her name. Khloe is crazy. She's like what we doing. A character very would yeah. Yeah. It was completely manic, so. What's Your Face Priscilla? Start like has a little vision of Daffy her daughter and Jon Benet running running up to show them their friendship bracelets and sort of thinking about how they're gone now and yeah Giannini says that once her best friend Daphne hit his Joe but that morning when she was hiding, it wasn't a joke. okay, thanks. Jon Benet things checking in so Steve's taking in evidence in his office, and it's clear that he has no idea what's going on, but he obviously knows something is very wrong here and Steve Lake Road for this case so hard. That's what this I mean that's with. This movie is telling me basically. and. It's always important to know like what who your hero is in the story because that's like completely, that's where the biased comes from especially in a lifetime movie, they can only go so much to like sort of nuances things so The COP collects one of the cops. There collects the writing samples from John and Patsy and the handover the pads of paper Ham. So at this point patsy so upset that she's throwing up and Linda in another cop, who I don't know his name either, but he's. Like a big gruff sorta like a leathery guy Detective Franquin so he says you know. Basically they should release anyone that doesn't need to be there so that there could be a strategy session. Many leaves it on Linda to basically like hold down the fort, and this was one of the other totally fatal errors because he's you know I think he's going to go interview, Burke or something at the fleets. House but. Let's. He leaves her alone. She tries to get them to all stay in one room and just like keep the foot traffic to a minimum in patsies. Crying is finally calmed. A little bed and Linda wants to interviewer about the housekeeper, but then patsy says she's had like a change of heart probably couldn't be the housekeeper I mean it doesn't even look like her writing, so then PRISCILA comes into the room and I think we should change on bananas sheets. And Linda's just like dude. I want like. How can I stop you people? So at that point? She gets up and starts looking for John and you know there's plenty of DNA being spread everywhere. Eventually, she finds John at the kitchen table, and he's just like nervously tapping his foot in rereading the letters from the kidnappers, and that nervous sort of leg motion. Dude, own my God. There's nothing I hate more in life than. I can't stand tapper. Triggers Mesa Fonje for shore? But like there's something about a fidget or that? Really it really gets nerves so she asked him He's like you know. Have you ever seen? John like this. She asked fleet and he's like you know. I've never seen him in a situation quite like this. And, so he's still totally on his side. At this point, really trying to process what's going on here but yeah, so fleet and John Linda for some reason tells fleeting John Why don't you go just like look around in the basement one more time? And then he's asked John About the broken window and John Explains at sometimes over the summer he broke his window to let himself in, and he's been meaning fix that, so he leaves the room and he goes looking in the others, and there's one door almost at the end of the hall that has lake basically a latch on top of it that you could really only open. If you were tall enough to like, reach it It's completely like makeshift, and I think that is one of the bigger things that has been going for like Burke, not doing this. South but he has. We looks into the room, which is just as dark as any other time we've seen it. which is the same paint Cam Room? And he screams God, and so he's sees the body in the pitch dark, and that was another thing with fleet. Was that he? Later on, said like. How did he know? The body was in there before you turn on the way? Right away. The dude just fucking mangles the little girl's body like he goes ripping the duct tape off. I could never imagine doing not to a dead body I would be afraid to tear the skin. I don't know why this was his reaction. Other than obviously was intentionally tampering with the crime scene, but it just seems so bizarre, so he carries her upstairs in. Linda sees that he's coming down the hallway with the body, and she's I. Put the put the body down. Put the buddy down. Don't touch anything. And then patsy comes over and she is. She's balling and she's like you know trying to put her hands on the kid and it's just like. No. One's going to get that perfectly I understand. But. I mean. I thought this body scene was so gruesome and so disgusting and I hated it, and I do not want because the body. They showed her full now dead body, and she was blue and bleeding, and it's like I don't need any of that I. Know this was like we're already hearing her creepy voice I don't need her light blue dead body. You know what I mean. No, absolutely, because that's like one thing that we've never really been privy to with the state of her body when she was found and. At that point, she had been dead for hours. So like rigor, Mortis like there was some of the earlier signs of like a body decaying, and it was very graphic like i. don't feel like there was any reason to this show. Close ups of that and make it worse than it already wise I feel like this poor girl has been. As much as they desperately want to know what happened with her and I understand all the fanfare. I can't understand like I don't know if there is another side. If she is up in heaven, watching us right now I just feel so bad for her late away. What she's have to had to watch play out about her life. Whatever I mean, it's just it's bizarre. It's it's honestly this case blows my mind so. But. But speaking speaking the latch. Documentary. They say that they think that the. John Helped Burke moves the body or something that maybe she, he that Burke may have killed her in a different room, and then moved her down to their, and that's how he knew is in there, and that's how like he could reach the latch that that was just there. Yeah I mean I I. Don't think it's like a huge mystery that he put her down there at all like I think that he was killing time till it seemed long enough for though investigated the body I mean they did show him sort of taking a passing look in some of the other rooms, but he definitely walked to that door and I think that I remember fleet talking about because obviously fleet Priscila are no longer friends with the ramseys. Wind up feeling like right away like they needed to. About a year in days are to take a real stand, and we see that in this movie but I mean he was said you know. I feel like John just walked straight back to that door like almost as if he was ready to unveil that the body was still there so Linda's basically on the phone at this point demanding back up at the house, because the crime scene is Ben just completely obliterated There's even a priest there now, Let's say twenty one forty three to twenty three minutes. Yes now. All alone here. He didn't mean to kill her. He grabbed her. Thank. Know A-. Pre. School. Got To be an inside job. No No No. You. Probably my. Most iconic lifetime cry. We've seen in yours like Tori. Spelling could never unbelievable, so it's unclear to me whether this is bad acting or whether this is actors acting like the parents are overdoing it. Does that make sense. Yeah No, it totally makes sense. I mean they are portraying to the best of their ability. It's also you know that's very lifetime. That's very brand with lifetime. Just started these like half baked performances like people you know in so. Acting Chops. There they work with the material. They're given. You know what I mean. I always have a really hard time. Pinpointing who to blame I'm, is it? The acting is the directing. Is it the writing? I think a lot of times. It is direction in these movies that make it really suffer, but I think they use non union actors, too. So I think it's getting to. sometimes they use non-union Canadian day players, but for the most part a lot of these people have very full careers. Really, let's Look Patsy Ramsey. She's play by Julia Campbell who was Christine masters in Romi Michelle's. Wow. Do like. She's the one She's like the main bitch in that movie. She's done. You know she's. She's done a lot of series Tell me a story. The resident she was on Awkward Recovery Road Austin, and Allie she's worked a decent amount. She had a really long role on Dexter seems like like a six episode arc. well to be clear I didn't think the acting in this lifetime movie was bad I. Think this scene is bad. That's why I think is acting the actors making the choice to play like the parents are overdoing it. Yeah well I. Mean that's that's sort of the theatrics of it all for sure lack, it's you know. I started to wonder especially during the scene when John then flips and says it has to be an inside job. Like what did he mean by that? Like who who is under the umbrella of being inside and I start to wonder like did they brainstorm on just like weird ass theories to potentially throw out. I don't know, but it's crazy, but what I'm wondering is. Do you think like what's with the window the broken window? Do you think he did that? On purpose to make it look like there was an intruder. I think that he was actually I. think that they were very lazy about certain aspects of their home. No I think it's totally plausible that he forgot his keys imbroglio window. That's something like homeowners do. Hopefully not all the time, but it's. It's not unheard of like you know. The the door didn't have great. Reinforce locks like patsy didn't check any that stuff. They very much lived a sheltered life. I was more worried honestly when I when I saw that he had let that broken window. Go for so long that. The fucking temperature in your house. Dude, like what about just like having the elements come inside your house sold. But. Let it go for that long like you have too much potential for help to not replace that God damn. Window, But! Yeah, so Patsy has taken. You know that. Diaz's Pam or whatever and she is completely passed out on the floor. and John Sort of cries as he watches her on the floor and the next day at work Linda's. You know this. This is cutting back to where we started Linda's hugging. But what happened that morning? The detectives and we get a rare Swear so I'M GONNA. Play that scene as well. It's twenty three twenty, two to Twenty Six oh six. Shit Store I was at the autopsy this morning and there's a six year old girl with an eight inch crack in her skull in a garage around her neck, and you know what they're trying to figure out. Which one of those kilter! And when and what and for how long someone was shoving something inside of her signs of sexual abuse. The parents have any idea a few, but. We can't talk to them since. We thought it was a kidnapping. These are influential people. Everyone was treating it all with kid gloves hugging the body cleaning up emergency. I moved the bodies. It's all contaminated I. don't even know why. We're here to see you. MR, Ramsey. You walk away from an active crime seat. They're getting my plane writing. I have important business in Atlanta under daughter. We we have unfinished business here. You can't go to Atlanta or anywhere else can stay here another moment. We obviously have to talk to you. Your wife and your son. You'll stay with us. Just two. Weeks. Most our daughter. Home. Steps. John Andrew and Melinda. Are Older sister died in car accident. I know most stories only have one bad thing happened that this is in the story. This is real life. Lots of bad things happen in real life. At least in mine. This is a mistake. Who should be taking them downtown separating? Commanders call. Him Where are you going? Wow so manipulation on on the part of John to like not just trying to skip town, but then when they're like. No, you have to stay. Your daughter was just murdered. He's like please. My daughter was just murdered. Do like there's no I'm sorry, it's not convenient. Leg I i. You know I have to say it can't be probably any more convenient than on December twenty six for your daughter to get murdered brutally in your house, but like these are the things you gotta do guys. You GotTa talk to the police. You got to cooperate. You know this is in the best interest of finding out what happened your daughter unless you don't want people to find out what happened to your daughter, but no, they don't because they're rich way people so they can do whatever they want. Obviously. I know their wealth was I mean. This guy has a plane at his fingertips and you're telling me. They wanted a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars like on. So we we'll go ahead. Do you think it's that the other daughter died, too? I don't think it's sauce I mean. I don't think that like John had anything to do with his daughter's car accident, but it definitely increases the stakes for why they would want to make sure the burke was protected. Yeah, I don't know any of the details surrounding that car accident like I wonder if that was, there was something fishy about that as well. Yeah, I think that I looked into that in the past in like from what I remember it was you know just your everyday car crash? Don't think it was like faulty brakes or something, or but Yeah I mean. I was thinking about that as this clip was playing in terms of like the burke of it all like what happens if a nine year old murder someone. Is Healing especially view if he got hit over the hat like she got hit over the head and that was the. If? If they had just admitted it then this would all be over like burke would be out of Juvie, or whatever, and like we all would have forgotten about this case by now, and he could have a normal life. Totally and I mean to your other point. They are a wealthy white family like they can really sort of buy their way out of this evenly. We'll send him somewhere. That's really good and like incentivize him to not give them. Some sort of like juvenile detention sentences like I mean. This sounds like it could have been an accident in a lot of ways if he really did take his train track, and like you know, stab her head with it. I think that that is something that just sounds like a kid freaking out. Except this time it was fatal, and he definitely liked to beat up on his sister immediate hitter with a golf club in the yard the summer before like this is a kid that resorts to strange tactics in violence to get attention for sure You know he probably did need some sort of reforming. Yeah! And it's. It's scarier that he's out on the street than anything I mean if I. If that was my child, I would like to think that I would. I would get them help instead of protecting them and keeping them in a bubble all these years. Yeah I when the CBS documentary aired. His social media was still. Public, it wasn't private yet. So is able to see like his instagram twitter and it was like mundane. There's nothing to note really so which makes me think he's even more on the spectrum for some reason. Right. Like lives very unaffected by this, and it's just sort of. Boring person exactly I mean that's what I got from his appearance on Dr Phil. The really Erie smiling and sort of the lack of emotion. It was really just You know it was unsaddling because he. was He seems so normal I. Mean this guy has a girlfriend? Yeah, yeah? I mean imagine signing, I know that one can get a boyfriend I know that anyone wants to date. You know there's always going to be someone for someone like this is even maybe attracted to the fact that he's burke. Ramsey, but I cannot imagine like calling it. My mom being lake, young dating a really great guy. actually is jumping as brother. Where the where the detective or leather daddy went was to go see burke at the Fleas House and you know he's sitting at the table, drinking a glass of milk and eating a sandwich and you know having no problem with his appetite is a normal conversation, and he says that he woke up in his dad said was missing, and he has no idea. Idea when he woke up, he never heard anything that nate. He says he went to bed. Any heard the like you know. Normally at night, the only noisy here's the water heater scame He said there was no arguing in. He said that his he like he then reiterates his father woken up and that John Jami was missing And, then he goes we are we still going to Michigan and the actors? Like what are you guys do in Michigan and he's like. Oh, go water skiing and you know he's going over like the fun activities they do and the detective tries to like. Circle it back and get back into the questions that are necessary and he's like. Can I go play video games, so he is not? I can't imagine any child would be excited to have this conversation, but it's like they're pointing to colors like asking him you know like would. Very late questioning. Yeah and then the thing that gets me later and I don't know and I. It's one of those moments where I can't tell if it's historical footage from the interview, or if it's recreated footage as when he asks one of the detectives if he's wearing a rolex. That's wild. Yeah, that's all recreate. The original videos are available online from Lake. The original questioning that was released. Released when the documentaries were made a few years back in I mean he is completely blase in those interviews as well while his big on changing the subject, like doesn't understand the seriousness of why he's there which you know if he is innocent, and all of this good for him to not have to focus on the horror of his sister. Be murdered like you know that's. That is a coping mechanism is one so Yeah? The cops replayed the nine one one call, and they start to fixate on the part of the call where patsy didn't hang up. And this is the nine one one operator, basically bringing it to them and saying there's something really weird about this call in. It sounded like her voice, but not so. So hysterical and she was talking to someone nearby, so they decided that this is gonna be their big thing. This is going to be the secret that they keep. Cops always have to keep a couple of secrets and the FBI in secret service. Will you know they're the ones who typically handle something like this? So then they go to see the forensic. Handwriting Expert Guy which I love. We had a movie about a handwriting expert and it was I loved it. I love it when I can geek out on someone else's profession. It's the best part of Lake, any law and order when they go, see the Emmy So. They you know. He basically says like the war of ransom notes like normally people just get to the point and say like I need this much money or I'm gonNA. Kill Your Kid and then he notices that on the pad that was handed into them with the handwriting samples. There's a page if you flip back that says Mr Mrs so basically you know practice. For the note that wind up getting handed in, and it's a very different style of handwriting So then that's when he realizes that the pad that he has with the samples from John and Patsy is the same one that was The same that the note was written on it lines up perfectly so the detective. Steve he watches videos of Germany's pageants and home life and I mean this guy through his life. Into this case, it seems like he would return to these tapes all the time. The point where I was like come on Steve like. How many more times you have to watch her with the hose and the Yard Lake? There's no evidence in. It. Seems like you already are fund enough of this girl. You don't need to remind yourself fat. And To your. To to your point about the ransom, no, they say in the CBS documentary that. No killer. It's GonNa. Sit there and write out like three pages of ransom like if they're an intruder and write out this long ass, ransom note when they're trying to take the kid and get some money and leave, of course not like that's the biggest loophole in the story is. How like you know especially because some of the language that was used in there like that's no one's like natural narrative and writing style. So There's you know they're looking through the fleet family and the cops are looking to the same sort of pictures or having a little film. Moment there were there inter cutting the two of them. There is one where burke is like looking back with a little bit of contempt and there's another one where you just totally disconnected from his mom in her. In that picture and it's very clear that Johnny was the favorite child, so we see a flashback to that night of You know Christmas when Jami in the family are leaving oh. Sorry, they're playing the fleet's daughter Daphne Germany playing together then we see a moment of Patsies goofing around, and she sets the table like this is where the fleets are starting to remember some of these things in just how normal it all seemed in how it didn't line up with what they saw the next day. and Fleet comes in and says that the RAMSEYS lawyer wants to talk with them. you know because they always go for the parents I? Daily decide to engage their lawyer have their back. In Priscilla turns to him and says that her bed patsies bed didn't look slept in that night and Patsy was wearing the same outfit that she was wearing the night before, and she thinks that she probably didn't go to bed at all that night. Going back to their last memory, she flashes back to the family, leaving the House on Christmas night in Germany, getting merry Christmas. She's carried out in her dad's arms. I? I hate it. I hate the flashbacks I hate. It's awful. It's also awful, because like kids are just the worst fucking actors. Every play the scene with Daphne when they tell her that she's no longer with us but i. mean it's just so awful when the kids have to act these movies because I just I got shit on them late. They just they don't really have a place in a movie like this. When like the directing and all that stuff isn't really they're the. There's just no place for a child so now we're on day three. It's to eighteen PM. The detectives pull up to Fleets House the White. and. Let's play this clip. Thirty, one, zero, nine, thirty, two, zero nine. This is what. Yes detectives. Thomas and gossage but the. Do, you mind if we ask you a couple of questions. We already talked here your colleagues. Why not everyone else has? Just missed the last bunch. Some private investigators from Johns lawyers. Want they want. Basically know what we'd already told you or anyone else. Are they concerned about something? I. Guess You'd have to ask them. Stir White. This is why I want you to know that in cases like this, it's natural to look at the immediate family. I eliminated. That's what Johnson's lawyers are for. The shift focused where it should be. An. Where's that? You're the police. You don't have any leads. In College. I mean like they're old friends in a weird way and something happened between them the way that Steve and the white family are talking I mean it's interesting to see how quickly the whites knew something was off. It seems like Priscilla knew when she walked into the House that day. Then not everything was adding up right away, she knew. And the amount of screen time she's given shows like. Were you know supposed to? Glean that she now as well. So yeah. That same day, the Ramsey show up to give their DNA the forensic team, and of course they bring their lawyer who make it clear that you know it's their legal right to just give their DNA and not be questioned or anything like that, so they show a team of people that are there to take everyone's DNA It's basically like a security cam moment where they're showing. It's they're very artistic or lifetime, and then you know we see Patsy John Berg. Enter than we see the stepsiblings or there to John, the first to go and then we go to four twenty three a m, I don't know why. OPM, sorry Ramsey family provides his friends example so we can see. Prince hair saliva samples blood. At one point they do a cut in on someone's tongue and dude like rush your tongue doing a close on your. Police. That is your tongues moment to shine. I! Don't know if we were supposed to understand. These characters are extremely hydrated after days of crying. Dobbin is never going to be a tongue model ever. Yeah, it was really it was really unfortunate, because they also had a lot of tongues to pick from, and for some reason, they decided to spotlight that one, so they decided to take photos of everyone, and just to have them on the record in Burke is smiling and his photo. I mean the step siblings just like dead inside on looks little concerned, but then patsy her photos a little bit more haunting than that. It's off, so she's a little off center in frame again. She totally looks like a Khloe firemen, impression and I think. It's this actress. The more I look at her. The more I kind of think it's brilliant that they cast a comedic actress in this movie to play at sea but that night the white family on the decided to break the news to their daughter that Jon Benet has passed. I'm surprised. They got away with it for like four days And then in. We're after that we're going to hear clip of day. Four Johnny is funeral, and then we're going to hear patsy like it's also patsies birthday, and then we're gonNA. Hear that there's cops watching everything and it's already turning into a media circus. This is a longer clip. We're GONNA play thirty, three, Fifty, eight to thirty, six fifty. Five something to tell you. Could make you feel really sad inside. But it's OK. Dumping is gone. Liamine trump needs gone. To Heaven Sweetie. She coming back. What happened to her? She nobody knows for sure. Today's Mommy's birth. That's. and. Let us say Ahmet. Off! Please let the family pass, and then join US afterwards for reception. Housekeeper. His handwriting looks nothing really out. Attacked Him. A couple of questions, please. It's an active investigation. You know we can't comment. The chief is going to call a press conference all right thanks I. Just have a moment of your time, please. Is it true you're ransoming the body for an interview? The body's going to Atlanta today for a funeral on Tuesday. The, Ramseys! told her that. Here comes around shot. Talk To daughter morning. August. Let's y'all. Let's go through it so. Daphne God bless her I really. I didn't need to hear from a kid in this movie really. Brought from mood. A little bit I will say that. I think it's kind of unbelievable that. The white family stayed through like all of this now I understand like. Now isn't really the time to disown your friend, but like how how painful that must've been for them to sort of go through every moment of the funeral process in the beginning of this knowing already that there's something off, your best friends may have murdered their daughter totally so weird. And also in this last seen here with the media, we sort of established that there are some internal leaks in the police department that are going out and this was a huge thing. I mean the amount of press. That this case, Scott and the new development that happens you know I. Remember all the way through that summer. After this murder happened, books were already out, and you know like those paperback books that they saw at every grocery store, just laying the first person. You know at like the amount of police cooperation with the media was really disturbing for the lack of what we know to be like the lack of sort of evidence in results. They got out of this and it makes me think like of Laurie, Valo even. Where like you know we're just I don't know forever. Really GonNa know what happened there because we're dealing with people who keep secrets. And you know Steve I have to say come on Steve. Where are you sending the media? After the Ramseys at their daughter's funeral laying my gosh like go ask them like I. Don't really think this is the time Steve but. I think we all know they're liars, but the next time it's day six There are Marietta Georgia. They're laying her to rest and burke is really a motionless funeral kind of checked out then. Patsy you know leans down whispers something into his ear, and sort of sends him toward the casket, and you really starts to tear up. A BET and patsy looks on sort of almost smiling and. I gotTa know what she said to him like. Do you think she's like you killed your sister? The least you can do is go take a by. I thought it was so weird that she was smiling like that shot was so creepy to me. And, but also it is problematic to like go so much off of the behavior of people. A tragedy happens because you don't know how you're GONNA. React like when you're a kid. I don't know like when my grandparents died I was like. I didn't really care you know what I mean like. You can't plot this. The emotions and the gravity of everything that's happening, so it's hard to like. Base it off that you know. I totally agree. I think the only issue here with that is like it's. It's difficult to process weird on weird lab if they weren't just weird to begin with, there would be much more of like a curveball, or like a grace given to them, or you're just sort of like like they're going. You know they're. They're going through it lake. People grieve differently. It's almost like you know sort of like the Scott Peterson. Chris Watson fact, it's just the attention. The way that they interact with attention is so strange. they liner. In they, they're telling on themselves and I think that that is the part where you they love it like why who would love this? Like what kind of people would love this? You know you know who I love. This is people who put their daughters pageant and name their daughter their own names. I know I know. Jon Benet was named after John Bennett Ramsey. It's not even like a French thing. It's like a combined. Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey and Patricia was the mother so like they are narcissist. That's the kind of people that love this attention. I do love that. She is the first like famous person in my world that had like a made up name. Lake at this like now. It's sort of like par for the course like the Mormons are out here naming their kids like insane shit. Happens all the time like God Jessica from Nineteen Kids, and counting named her son spurgeon Oh. I saw that, but that's some Mormon history person or some Shit I. Don't know Taller Lady, but like it's just not. Easy on the ears or the mouth, no. It's. It's just like you know it's. It's a real choice and I always was sort of fascinated by this particular choice. Because the name works, it works. We've said it for years but yeah, it was. It was really the first like sort of. Time. I'd ever seen anything like that before. That's. So patsies, mother, and like you know I. Guess The older kids from John's first marriage. They're all in her living room, watching the news and her mom's living room is basically a museum of patsies pageantry life. That's also where I'm a little bit feeling Arlene from dirtyjohn vibes, because I'm like you know. Maybe this is just what patsy knows. Maybe she was a narcissist who was raised by a narcissist. You know maybe. You know to patsies credit although I think she's being a little, you know it. It was a little strange as she handled that she comes in. You know basically shut the TV off and says like you know there are children here, and she gives everyone in the room like a really filthy look. That just felt very late. Shame on you, but it also seemed very. seemed to come from like. Like a narcissistic place like the way that the actress played Yeah, it was like a hurt. It was more of just like how fucking like how dare you made me. It made me kind of scared of her in that moment. I was like I wouldn't be shocked if everyone in her family was a little bit scared of her. Yeah I was yeah. This has a lot of secrets. For sure. Should scary regrets and well okay so back to the garage. We haven't even touched on it, but okay so patsies. Dodd was a sailor and he was in the navy. Boats were life in his house and the garage. It was always you know such a strange thing. That wasn't a boy scout. Not It wasn't a not that you would really know unless you had some sort of maritime experience in your past, and a lot of people are pointing to the fact that Patsies Dad's headstone there. There is like an engraved not on that headstone so like. Maybe they were a big, not family. Who their big heads I never heard that. Yeah like I was wondering lake either this family fucking love some knots, or they pulled out a book, and like figure it out how to make that thing like I. But where would they have? Like what would be the resource and like who even really knows how to do something like that? It's not a common skill you know. Burke is like up in his room like reading a book on knots and like trying to think of ways to kill his sister. You know that that's the kind of kid that does that Shit. Right, no absolutely I. of course, that's my opinion. Please don't sue me Burke Ramsey. No I totally agree. He's that kid who's like on his neck. Shit like I raised a bunch of money to buy kids Christmas presences here through operation. Santa and you have to like pick. The letter. In like be like okay I'm adopting this kid. And so I adopted this kid just because his only Christmas, wishes were a metal detector and a safe. Yeah, and I was Oh, he's just on his next level like he's worried about. He's an entrepreneur. Like of course I bought him. Both I wrote the parents a card. I gave them the other key because I was just like. I. Don't trust him. I don't trust Nikki in his. You know metal detector by the way Nikki, if for some reason you're listening to this, reach out to me. It breaks my heart that I'll never know you kids. Oh! Yeah. That was the hardest part is like I'm never going to know them. Girl like a kind of destroys me because I feel like I know them, he. Seems really cool though that Kitson's really cool that he is bad ass. Like I always think that way, too I just didn't have I i. don't think anyone would entertain me honestly. That's kind of why I had to take him up on it. Because I was like no one's going to buy you this school, but. okay so. John Talks with fleet the next day. WHO's basically just trying to reason with him and giving him the optics on everything like this is his friend. That cares about him enough to take time and be like this is looking really bad. I'M GONNA. Play this scene, but like just you know sort of the kindness in. Honestly that this would take I think that I would have a hard time even leveling with my best friend four days after their kid was murdered and be like you look terrible. Okay so thirty, eight, forty, nine to forty, fifty eight. Hiding behind lawyers. And Crisis Management firms is not the answer John. You look like Oj in the Bronco. We're not confident in how the police are handling this. We're GONNA put up a fifty thousand dollar reward for information. Like Oj? What you do. In the next twenty four hours is going to define the rest of your life. You need to come back to boulder and talk to the police. Patsy needs to talk to them we do. We all do to find out what happened to Jon Benet. You're making it look like. You're involved. And we're going to tell them we're not. We've made arrangements to go on CNN CNN. Get all this cleared up. Stop, it from getting out of control. You need to talk to the police not CNN. please. As your friends? For the both of Burke. Come back to boulder. Mommy Daddy went on TV. It was the first time most people saw them. But on TV mommy doesn't even sound like herself. And she looks so sad. We are also assuming investigative team. To assist. We want to find. The best. Minds, This country has to offer. There is a killer on the lose. I don't know who it is. I. Don't know if it's a he or she. But if I were a resident of Boulder. I. Tell my friends. To keep. I mean I. Don't think it was the TV that was making your mom. sound funny Jon Benet but I need okay so many things here I have to say. They bring up a very good thing, fleet and Priscila about OJ. And realizing that this was post OJ sort of. Makes me, really think about. Like where people were with the justice system at that point in sort of what rich people could get away with with enough complications in lawyers because it would have been difficult to. Especially when the evidence, it would have been really difficult to get a jury to make a decision about this, and of course you know a jury did later. Make a decision about this, but I think at that point so much time had passed that. People just wanted it behind them, and it was so obvious I mean I think it would be almost impossible to have a jury that wasn't tampered with in some capacity in a case like this, but it really you know it really made me think lake. Oh God like. Did they sort of? Did they sort of know that they would probably just be able to get away with us if they tied up legal stuff like was OJ the blueprint i. think when that that friend said this? You're doing this just like OJ, they a part of their brains just went like Ding Ding Ding. We can be like OJ. This mom's in pageants. She wants to be famous. She's like she was Miss West Virginia's like. Of course they want the notoriety. My opinion of course I don't know. and. Also it's the CNN of it. All like that would have been truly not like. The beginning of the end hadn't already happened. That would be the very beginning of the end for me seeing that they were more willing to talk to the people in the news, and like sort of recover their public image than they were about finding the killer of their daughter. It just seems so disingenuous to be honest in like their logic is obviously flawed So you know that that news scene was so uncomfortable like neither of them were necessarily groomed for this just because you were missed. Wisconsin or whatever? It doesn't mean you know how to successfully true. All into thinking you know. Oh well. She's clearly an ascend and. I! DuNno I don't know, but the fans dude Zana's. Pop in weight and also this was a time in history. When like? Our attention was much less fragment fragmented. We weren't. We didn't have a million streaming services. We didn't have TIKTOK. We didn't have all this other shit to look at so people were watching the OJ trial. People were watching the Jon Benet. It was like the thing that people were watching and looking at. It was everywhere at the time. So of course they like loved it. Yeah because you could be a celebrity. Your being involved in some night at people this our nation was like totally dialed into true crime. At this point, it was like a little bit of the true crime like heyday heyday. But yeah, so it's Day twelve now in the media is worse than ever they ask some detective. Coming in I, believe might be the chief, but again these people are fucking impossible to tell apart. And they say you know. The ramseys aren't avoiding the police at all like to actually answered questions for us, and then we see Steve on hot on his heels when he comes in. He's basically like they are not cooperating with us. They gave us a list of. Questions with yes or no answers, and now they're saying that they're. Memories are basically wiped tra- not morning. At this point He tells Steve. You Know Oh. You're too caught up in this. You got to focus on other people like what about John's disgruntled employees and Steve's like listen if they they need to bring him, burke or they're going to have CPS at their door, and he's like a youth threatening them and Steve's like. No, it's the fucking law in Colorado. which by the way where isn't that a law like? Where wouldn't that be a so burke? Please gas who I love that guests who shout out with the child psychologist and it seems like he's in a relatively good mood and she asked him you know. Do you normally wake up when you hear something? And he says yeah, like the French doors but that night nothing woke up. French doors, not particularly loud doors. Mellow and not historically known as loud doors so. You know he says he's you know it's hits. He's been okay since it happened. He feels safe and she's like well. Do you know what happened? He's I. Guess she was killed You know someone either quietly went down to the basement, and they took a knife or they banged. You're on the head in a psychologist is like well. Why don't you like? Do you think that that would happen to you need says no, so at this point I don't know if this was intentional. Intentional or not, but it was brilliant, because like this is where we get to see that. Burke has a temper, and it comes out of nowhere, and it's really fast. She they both have liked cans of Dr Pepper on the table where she's interviewing him, and she picks up his and takes a sip of it, and he's like that's mine. I can't drink it now. He's very You know I would have never spoken to an adult like that as a kid. Ever let alone. No Mr? Something in a situation like this. I probably wouldn't touch my drink again. I was torn as well on whether that was intentional or not because like. How could it not be intentional? But then that's a weird thing to do. Like how maybe she's trying to make him mad. I was torn not as well and I. also do want to say that guests who was a very. Of the moment game, so it's perfect. I loved guests who to I. It was just fun to watch someone else. Play it again. made me want to get some guests. Who My life again you know I think the only reason why I would love to believe it was intentional is because. She needed to disarm him some way Whether or not this kid has armour on unclear. It seems like he's just generally unfeeling, but. Either way. It's like kind of it's is probably one of the better things that came out of Burke. Being interviewed is to see how he gets so hot all of a sudden. So, this is the seem you were talking about earlier. When patsy in Linda are talking in like it seems like some sort of cafe that's attached to precinct dirt wherever they are and we're going to hear after that a group of detectives examined the drying that birth, and yes, don't worry I. Take a screen shot of the drawings we. We love bad sketches on this show, so let's play forty four fourteen to forty, five, forty seven. Thought. This would be quicker. Spend up their rooms. Can you're? I. Can't tell you hold. It's left and me. John's at work irks going back to school. Shopping. To me. Filing trumpy. I can't have any more children. I had cancer surgery. I'm sorry. I Lost Burke. I would have no reason to go on living. They don't want to take him from you patsy. They just ask him some questions. The plane implies remoteness distance. Small Stature patsy insignificance powerlessness. The fact that Jon Benet at all. We can have after the murder. It's interesting cycle battle. It's not it that's. When he told the dock, he was just getting on with his life. He's nine. We're getting. Teen calls a day from kids who were afraid. This is gonNA happen to them. And this kid just down the hall from where it did happen. He's no scared at all. What gets the same thing I said about John? There's no such things no behavior after trauma like this. Evidence. I. This is a perfect scene to explain exactly what I needed by. Everyone Looks Sameness movie. The Guy was exhibiting. The drawing is about I'd probably say like six one. He's wearing a blue button down shirt with a darker tie and he has a beard and Brunette hair. Then the person's talking to playing devil's advocate in this movie. Who is just hits? The exact right spot of my nerves I can't take a person. He is also about the same height wearing the same colored shirt also as a beard like. If you're not paying super close attention, it almost looks like Hey, are the same actor playing against each other I? While I was watching this I was like. Why didn't they have a more diverse cast? But then I was like Oh, it's history. It's like actually what happens, so they had to right, I. Know It's like like throw a hat on someone. Make someone had guy gives the guy. For the love of God. Like there's so many ways to give someone a personality like Oh. Is that the guy who like randomly loves to WEAR WOMEN'S BROACHES? Like just get? There's give him something. Give him a little something, but I mean it was also. It's Colorado Lake we have to buy like how not diverse is department probably was yeah so. You know I can't stand this devil's advocate guy. It's like, but they're necessary people in society, right? You have to have that journalist. Who's going to poke a hole in anything because that's what a lawyer will do, that's what a good defense will do. You know. Do you think the drawing was psycho. babble like I. DON'T I? Don't think it's admissible in court, but I think like writing that off well fair. It's like it kind of also shows what time we were in this world with like what we consider to be. Waited to something bigger. Yeah, I think I think the word psychobabble is a very nineties term as well and very like. So dismissive. To that drying and like. More, it is more route revelatory of who he is so yeah. The Psycho Psycho hearing psycho battle I was like Oh. That's such a misogynistic, dismissive, shitty little term. I hate that. Right I know I totally agree, but at the same point I'm like I guess maybe they could dislike they. A defense lawyer could absolutely dismiss the idea of like drawing me meaning anything. Yeah a good one. Effect that John was flying pitcher is fucking crazy like not even a plane, just flying web it. So now they have the nine one one call in the hands of the big boys all right, and they're going to play the tape for Steve With enhanced audio, and they ask him to write down like basically whatever it is. He hears in Germany in her voice over says. Is this the part of the story where the hero finally saves the Princess and I'm like? Okay Johnny don't bury the lied about who fucking you know what I mean like. We got a like. We absolutely think you're Kil-jo so Steve is like listening to desk and he's just electrified by it. Many rates on everything's. He's heard he just can't believe at so. He explains to the FBI agent. Okay, I it's a woman and she saying help me. Jesus help me Jesus and then there's more distant boys saying please. What do I do and then we hear what sounds like John's voice, talking to a little boy, and then you know just like one more lie where the boy like basically sort of is dismissed so watching it. Watching it this time around watching. Patsy I was like that is very deliberate and manipulative. To say about the cancer and to say like don't take my I can't have more kids. That does look more to hear this time around. Welcomes has also. She did her her Khloe phase where she was really like she. You know wanted to make sure Linda her that it was quite pleased with herself when she felt, she effectively communicated at and while Linda like never. You! Know really shows a sign that she sees it for what it is I. Wish that they had sort of like called that out more she definitely you know I think she did see it for what it was so John is watching out the window as burke. You know stands in the yard. I think he's playing with a I think he's watching a squirrel So two months later the this case has consumed Steve at this point. He's obviously bringing his work home with him He's up really late when his life comes like out of out of the bedroom, and she's like it's two a m. you need to sleep and he is you know. Why are you reading about this before bed? And he basically tells her like listen. I don't think I can have kids anymore. Leg after all of this, he wouldn't be able to handle if anything like that ever happened to his kid and you know she says you got to figure something out because this is really ruining, you And by the way, how could it not like this work? For everything like you know, you can say about people who work in law enforcement. I truly feel in a situation like this like how could you? How could you deal with that like I would never know I would obsess over. I couldn't not think about it for sure. It's so even veterinarians I'm like. How do you do your job like? On go and cry every day. God I know. But yeah, so at this point we're going to the district attorney Interviewing the Ramseys and then we're going to go to the situation room again. You know I have to say I have to give this movie some credit. The pacing is fucking great. 'cause do a really good job of sort of like you know. They know that we know the details of you've never heard of this case for some reason. If you've been in a coma, maybe like this case will have enough details for you, but they are covering basically twenty years of investigation. A lot of it like nothing is really happening like that's also the thing with this cases like when I was a kid, I always dreamed. There was so much more. More going on that I just didn't know about and come to find out like it really was like there wasn't much they could do like. There wasn't a lot of information to work with. They weren't getting any like crazy. Hot Tips were not getting into that at all. All the other potential leads. We don't see any of that. It's very focused on justice sort of one theory that happened inside the house, and when outside you know in influencers come in glue. It! Nothing really comes Evatt right? Totally. I think there are still for that reason. A lot of people who are convinced that the family couldn't have done it. Because they were so focused on investigating them. Yeah, I think a lot of people feel like they had a crazy hard on for the Ramseys, and just you know wanted to sort of wrap things up and you know there are a lot of people that think you know what whatever idea version of events that happened in that House that night a lot of people, still there you know. There was an intruder, or if it wasn't burke, it was patsy and she snapped or something I mean. Your eye so when it comes to true crime, and when it comes to like figuring out what happened, I'm always of the belief of like Oxfam's razor of like the simplest answer is usually what fucking happen. You know what I mean like. Some some rain person? It's usually like when somebody disappears. It's gotta be the husband you know like. It's usually the most easiest apparent thing. That's what I think. Yeah I agree for the most part I really agree, and for you know for many years. It never even occurred to me. That could do it and Wednesday settled on the CBS specially. I was like Oh like Da, like of course like that all adds up to being him, but there are elements lake. I think of Are you familiar with like the Delphi case? where it was like two girls who were having a sleepover and the next day, they woke up early, excited enough to go to school, and they decided to go to this sort of Bray Jr. it's like an old railroad that is just a go would suspended saying it's almost like a local Historical site in some ways, but it's where a lot of kids go on days off just to. It's like a walking place for the community members, but also kids probably go there and smoke weed and shit all the time. They want to look at some new instaflex, so they went there. Their sister dropped him off. And then you know next thing we know. They never. They never come home. They don't get picked up. No one can find them. The next day they are found dead in A. Small Lake. River area wasn't completely completely covered by water, but they got a small river. I'm down the hill and no one knows who killed them. But because they were kids with cell phones, they were able to catch clips of this guy coming toward them on the bridge, and the police have a lot more information hopefully, but. Like. Nothing make sense in a case like that so many things like. Maybe they were trying to meet a guy like 'cause one of them the one who wiped her phone the night before like. Why would a kid wipe their whole phone unless? You didn't want to get caught doing so you go to the place of like. Maybe they were trying to meet a boy that they met online. They turned out to be this like creepy guy. Some people think that you know it was just like an absolute toxic man, and they probably like snickered at him, or gave him a weird luck. 'cause he did look sort of. they you know. Maybe he just was like he was pissed off. That this like you know. These kids were making fun of him, and he need to like kill them to get revenge There's also this weird thing in the video where it looks like his. Body is like stuffed with things. It looks like he has. Like materials in his pants and in his pocket, you can't tell if he just has wait on him or his jacket is stuffed with like tools basically to kill someone into this. Hey, there's no answer about what happened. It's been like two years. It's a case that I am completely obsessed with. And there is. There's so many things that make perfect sense like of like Oh. That's absolutely what could have happened, but there is no. There is no logical conclusion like I have no idea. It drives me nuts, and that's a little bit of what I feel like in this case like yes, the most obvious saying that someone in the House did it. I mean. I don't know they're just so weird. About there Yeah Weird For All the secrets they have in for all. We know they could be having a sex party that nobody. They don't want any of us to know about. You know what I mean. That's always i. mean that's a huge theory. I don't know if you've like dove into that at all, but like I I love conspiracy theory unlike there's a Lotta people that think that John was part of a pedophile rings. And that they that he was. You know basically trying to sell Jon Benet into a pedophile ring up the I like that's a huge one as that like. He's involved in some cabal shed, or whatever like really deep pizza gate level shed about like the people he was involved with and the groups he was involved with, and I don't know if you're familiar with the fact that like another girl locally I was killed by a guy, and then after patsy died, John started dating the dead girl's mom what? Yes so like that all really ties into it to where it's like Oh my God will be. It is much more insidious than we think that you get much dirtier than someone. Covering up the murder of their child like. Maybe maybe it could be not a foreign faction just like a pedophile faction. Yeah! Wow I have never heard that theory, and that is bonkers and I can't wait to go on Reddit and look more into it. Well Yeah because like the pageant circuit. I mean come on like unless you're a parent with fucker you doing their. Attract large audiences in. It's not as if they like. Check your sex offender record in order to get into a pageant. So who knows, but let's pay forty, eight, fifty, two, fifty, one, forty six. We live dinner at the wines at approximately sore thirty PM. The last thing she ate was cracked crab. At the whites. She's asleep the card. Carried her up and. No I did not check the doors where the windows fat night. I don't know this patchy slip on the conference or I did not write that note. Where was burke when you found the note and called nine one one? Asleep. Every puzzle can be solved except sometimes you lose the pieces. Forget where you put them or put the pieces from one puzzle in the box for a different puzzle, but if you find all the right pieces, you can solve the puzzle for sure. Eating ask anything about the investigation your topsy. House. Daughter was killed nothing. and. That's the second daughter. He's lost, he's. Traumatized. What's happening with the nine one one call? Private firms with some more cutting edge. We've got the market. That wrote the note. It's an exclusive mass from the pot of pens, not far from the PAT in the kitchen. They staged it. It was an accident and they staged it to look like a blown kidnapping. Don't jump to any conclusions. How does a lot of there? And if it was an accident than how? And, why? To avoid bad press. A kidnapping isn't any better. We're just looking at the evidence. We have in front of us and why such a horrific staging! What else are we? Are We tracking the pedophile? Who may have attended her pageants? Yeah. It's a lot to process. What's going on with housekeeper? We're doing a handwriting analysis. Okay well, don't get locked into only one theory. Keep pushing on all fronts. We need to talk to them to the ramseys separately an unprepared which isn't going to happen at this time. The DA's words not mine. And according to the Ramseys new lawyers, they'll take written questions, but they want to review everything in our case filed before they talk to the police. What. Okay. Cracked Crab, I think that is so funny. Know why she's so proud of it, too. Like yeah, we had a crash dinner cracked crab okay I. Mean They are so? Like they're just they. They are so defensive and so insulted that anyone would dare. Remote the details of their daughter's murder and you know I hate to say guys, but even if you're not suspects, you're GonNa have to talk to the cops. If you want your the murderer of your daughter to be caught like what's with, you, know patsy going on TV and saying you know there's there's a guy out there. There's a terrible man out there. That's you know killed my daughter. What's that and then not willing to work with the police yet? If your kid gets killed, or if your? God forbid somebody close to you gets killed. You're going to be the number one suspect probably. Right but I mean all the more reason to like have full transparency you know, and by the way I you know I don't have a kid, if for some reason I acquire a daughter, and she gets murdered in. I have to cover for for some reason the first thing I'm GonNa do is start throwing out theories and names of people I can go distract the police with like Patsy Guy Works at movies meter lake, complimentary daughters dress like fucking. Send them after him like literally being if I wanted to deflect I would be sending them on a wild goose chase. especially, especially now, because like you know that the Internet is GonNa, go down Daig up some of those theories, and go down those rabbit holes, and do the work for you of core God if I have to read about that fucking Santa Guy. Or Man Working Christmas Eve. All of a sudden everyone's like yeah, he's a pedophile murderer. Mean that guy's name is still you know probably floating out there at attached to this case. Talk about needing reputation defender Dot com so we see some more home-video Dominati running around the stuffed bear. We now learn it is day one twenty eight I mean. As? We know if the first forty eight hours of. Art officially investigated. This is one hundred twenty days out right. It's it's crazy that the ramseys were even legally allowed to go that long without being brought in. On it is so white privilege like so crazy. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me like if they were not white, an incredibly wealthy immune, probably even if they were incredibly wealthy, and just not white, burke would be in CPS for sure in the foster system. They would both be in jail to this day like fluently absolutely so Linda comes in and says that the DA she goes into the cheese office and she basically. Basically says that the DA suspended any testing at CBI. There's still unidentified male DNA in her underwear and you know the chief is like worried about the amount of heat they're taking for all of this went down and he decides. He's going to take her off the case She's pleased. All like I'm building a relationship with PAT. See like that can be really helpful. She's right. And he's like sorry, but you're off and so. We see at this point. The media circus is even crazier. There's people you know outside of the House all the time in Germany says. Always said lots of people would see me. My God again. It's just so insulting like I feel like I've met six year. Olds who are far more advanced than they're portraying her then like. You know like more precocious like not so like it's a puzzle like it's just call it what it is Jon Benet. Right right right. fucking dirty all right. We know she's not dumb. What stop making her to be this dumb kid? Yeah and like Super Infantile Camman so Stephen Linda, both look at the evidence the way that they do all day every day. you really like I started to feel heavy for them about how frustrating those must have been for them, and then Linda carries a box to her car. Steve Pulls up in Caesar and he's like what's going on, and she's like I'm not staying on a desk job like I'd just rather quit, and she s Steve to promise her that he's GonNa. See this through and so this is like the promise he made. He carries this with him. This is like now. He's that guy. He's promised. Guy Young Man of his word guy so the detective was there that day I'm when she went missing the leather. Dadi talks to fleet and his wife about what happened after the funeral in Atlanta and he's like nothing you know we went back to. We went back to my house and he says that you know that. He seemed like there were there were some agitation there or something, and he he basically said not yeah, you know I had a little disagreement John's brother and asked him and his team to basically stay out of things and then. You know he said that Priscilla in him, just basically plainly spoke their minds it was. It was like a friend thing, so he wants to know if anyone corroborate without an, he's like yeah or corroborate that. You know. Are you suggesting that we had anything to do with this? So now? Fleet is like fucking done because he realizes. Oh, this is starting to like to me again I. Don't know if this was intentional by the police, but I think that this was a huge turning point for the case, because now fleets like bucket. I'm done with these people all right. So he goes to the captain, and he demands a statement saying that they had nothing to do with this, and they're basically like we can't talk about an open investigation and you know. Can You promise me John and Patsy didn't say anything about this happens again. I can't really comment on an ongoing investigation and so fleet demands that he makes a statement. Now we're on day. One seventy eight the police are being absolutely roasted by the media for botching this, which is true i. mean not was a huge part of the narrative was at the cops absolutely fucked up. in Steve Says when the DA forces them to show their entire hand the tape. It's still going to stay with them. and then they find out. Okay. We're actually bringing in this independent expert named loose met. He's a really big deal. I mean Steve Right away knows his name and he's like he's a legend. He did the Heather Dawn Church case, and like one hundred and forty nine others the DA is not going to start a jury yet, but they are bringing on Smith to help their case so this is a gigantic development for them. This must been like such A. Breath of fresh air for him to know that he's not alone in this anymore Fleet goes downstairs to talk to Priscilla early in the morning, his robe on, and they both look just like completely exhausted like this is sucked the life out of them more than the ramseys. It seems like physical told that this has had on them. Hundred percent so priscilla's reading the paper. Play the clip. It is fifty six, forty, two to fifty, seven, forty four. Couldn't sleep. Think. Anyone will actually read the police statement. I'm not looking at the statement. Last summer months before this happened. Barb Bernie, pointed out that damaged or the patsy. We thought someone had tried to break in. She said it had been John Traveling always forgetting his keys. Possible point of entry she knows. She knows what that is. People may not have liked. The pageants or the sexy outfits are everything that Patsy was putting Jon Benet into. But an innocent six year old girl is dead. Last meal. who going to start standing up for the truth around here? So, we find out that the door has been broken this whole time. This was like you know i. mean we gotTa talk about this House. I mean I am a single female homeowner? I can't recommend it like there are so many days where I just would have. I would do anything for another pair of hands around the house, or at the very least like just enough expendable lake, just like an insane amount of cash, so it could throw money and he's. Ripe, these people have enough money to fix a broken mock and fix a broken window. Why are they? So? Why do they lacks security and I understand that? This was a different time. This was still a time where a lot of people left their back door open, or they would leave the house without locking their doors, especially if they lived in a small town or community where things were generally safely, people were much more relaxed with safety back then yeah, and I also think it's too like Nothing's going to happen to up. Nothing's GonNa. Happen to us. Right, I mean yeah, and that is like a totally. That is complete privilege. Absolutely I just find it so interesting and very telling honestly. For people who were so obsessed with appearances to have such major things wrong with their house like it. You know it's very lake. Okay? Things are fine on the outside, but once you get inside, you realize we have broken windows or fucking door lock doesn't work like my daughter peas the bed. It seems like her sheets were never changed. Fill time. Yeah, crazy! How things got really overgrown in that house and I think sort of I mean I know it speaks to my mental health when my place is this shit? Show Lakers, GonNa, sort of speaks to the families mental health a little bit Yeah it's it's really it's really bizarre to me that there were so many ways that someone could have easily gotten into this house from. Yes so. Steve is eating at his desk I'm playing a lot of clubs, but a lot of them are short again because the pacing in this movie was really great, really good. But also you know. Outside of the sort of exposition I think it is kind of funny to see how these how these characters are for trade, and a Lou is you know he's like the lone flake when Lou rawls up. He has a Bolo tie on has glasses like a little string on his glasses? Older Lou has his own style like he is that person who's coming into town? Shake things up In, whether or not Lou was a big help. You know we will ever know like. Unfortunately, we won't ever know. I remember hearing through a friend that there was one major loophole that was open, and it was involving a lawsuit and I am part. Pardon me for not remembering which exactly which one it was, but I think also. Maybe that's good, because this is somewhat like low, key information, but. Basically a there is a loophole that be that could come from all of this. That's like not directly related to the case, but related enough where if they were able to get them on this one thing, John Ramsey would have to be completely deposed about what happened in that, House that night And it, and so like you know I, hold out some faith in some hope that either this man will perjure the fuck out of himself or finally some day we'll get to hear all of it, but I mean. How are they not? Deposed like I mean y I know legally speaking. That's like you know not. Not Common for someone who hasn't been arrested to be deposed, but it's like I don't know. I just think that there Lack, of desire to be helpful to the police. In any way is like Raymond guy like, would you? Wouldn't you think the plea? Their side so to like find the murderer. She you like playing along. Yeah, when if you'RE GONNA? Try and pull this off. pull off the impossible play along. So fifty, seven, fifty, six to one minute and fifteen seconds is where we meet Liu. Detective Smith. Liu. Steve. Thomas. It's an honor. That Jon Benet. Yeah. TOLD HER THAT WE'RE GONNA solve this. Is something. These. Are All cases. I've been privileged. To help solve. We're going to get her to. Yes, we are. Sure you around. About ready to pull out. Done. I don't think I've ever seen more compromised crime scene in my entire career. Yeah! There were mistakes made. These people. Contaminated, doesn't even describe it. How do you account for that? They thought they were showing up to a kidnapping. Just kidnapping. Basic police work. Fundamentals. Go under the Ramseys feel exposed. I went to. Music in this movie by the way, if this was like a regular season and we were reading this, I have to say font off the chart. We're getting some standard typography. The music in this movie, though is so extra, it is just another level. I love the line in this part where he's like mistakes were made. It's like yeah, that's the understatement of the century crazy. While, but also at the same time I'm like come on Lou like you're not telling. Steve Anything. He doesn't know already right. If you've could turn back time and make things different, I'm sure he would I know. He would same thing with Linda like. It was like Linda was watching a car crash after a car crash in that house side day of evidence, being completely destroyed and I'm Kinda like Lou. They know they know that uncle. This. Go easy on the guys. But it, also towards the end of that work, he was like no wonder. They feel exposed like it does seem like there's some sort of motivation there to come to the aid of the family, which is like why he has so many, you know. His theories are very distracting from. The narrative that the cops have had which is probably a good thing. You need to destroy things sometimes in order to get progress made, but it also feels like he really complicated things. I mean this is a real never major heroes moment for Steve Right definitely. He definitely complicated chat. Yeah so Jon Benet says I made drawing once at school. The teacher thought it was a horse. My friend, it was a fish. It was a picture of me. I wish someone saw that I saw that. Spa. Wow, that's just you know first of all. That's deep Germany but it. Sounds like you? You're really much of an artist I'm. That's sort of an advanced thought to give her can based off of everything else now like she was hybrid of a Horse on fetch. As Steve Tells Lou that the Ramseys are moving to Atlanta and he has to hand over the whole case. File and Liu says that he doesn't think the RAMSEYS had. To do with it, and so after all this time, this is when he like has come up with the intruder theory and you present said he thinks it was someone who was spotted at Christmas was spotted her at the Christmas parade. Or one of her pageants. that. Make Sense. He broke into the house when they were out. And you got familiar with the layout in then he sat down and he wrote the ransom note. He waited until around twelve when he crept upstairs in a mobilized her with a Taser. Taser isn't loud when it's applied directly to the skin, you then brought her down to the basement and tried to have his way with her, which is why he taped her mouth, inbound her arms, and then when she woke up, she screamed in rip the tape off. which I mean I, he never said like when she would have reapplied the tape, but I guess the implication is that it seemed like tape had been ripped off more than once in remote area and then when she woke up, she screamed and struck her with a flashlight. He panicked in the basement in forgot his ransom. Note downstairs and Steve. Just like you know, we can't believe that. He came to this conclusion and just seventy two hours like usually murders. Aren't he's glue- says that basically like murderers. Murders aren't always what they seem. Things. Go wrong all the time I mean. Let's entertain this for a moment. I I wonder if the Ramsey's paid off Lou. That's a great thought. That's a great thought. Because I mean it's. It's It's hard to believe. That he would come in and. With I mean unless unless that's his his. The main purpose of his job is just as sort of upset. The track that it seems like police are going down potentially at a laziness like. Maybe it's his out of the box. Thinking that makes him so good at what he does, but. In this particular case, it seems like he's so. He's so convinced that the ramseys couldn't have possibly done it. You do feel like yeah, like. Maybe he was being paid off right like. I don't know like he doesn't even examine the additional evidence for the ramseys doing. I think also that thing with Lou is like he carries the pictures of his victims in his pocket like it's. Very clear that he has a deep emotional attachment to these kids, and maybe there's a part of him. That can't face the reality that a parent would do something like this to their child right true. That's so that's so dark. He I know Oh God, so Stephen is partner basically feels like this goes against all the evidence that they have and to them. It's completely clear that this was the situation went wrong in the house. It was covered up in stage to look like something else, and then Steve says that you know C. tells them listen I was a fan of the case. You did with Heather Dawn Church leg. That case was amazing or family was accused in. They didn't do it in. You know it was an outsider, but that's not going to be every case. That's not the blueprint. and Liu says that no the blueprint is evidence determining theory, not theory determining evidence. Okay Lou SAS. So. That's the other thing with Lou to is like I. Feel like you can't tell Lou no Oh No! WHO's the boss? Lose the boss. Yeah, absolutely. Totally. Yeah, so he does Steve. This is know this is your first homicide Steve. You're acting like you know everything and his partner hotels Lou. That he's wrong. That known in the department will agree with him in at the FBI won't either so he excuses himself and at this point I kinda thought he was off the case, but I should have known lou better by now. Lake nothing out Liu so. He we see Alex, hunter the Boulder District Attorney. He goes on TV to talk about this. And then we hear a clip of John and Patty at home than after that we're GONNA. See Steve Talking to fleet in Priscila and then finally a scene of fleet and Priscila talking to the governor, so this scene rate here is one of three, thirty, eight or these scenes one of three thirty eight to one. Oh, six fifteen. You won't find too many people in this department agreeing with you, Lou. Or the FBI or any other agencies taking a look at this. It's not the first time. Telling. I want to say something to the person or persons that committed this crime. I mentioned the list of suspects narrows. Soon, there will be no one on the list. But you. This is nice a university professor. So me on television and says he would stake his reputation them. John. I feel like. The people that are supposed to be protecting Jon Benet. Aren't. That includes the DA. To suggest that we need legal counsel to deal with our own district attorney, but. That's just it. We don't trust him anymore. Neither, do we? He's been accused in a national magazine of being incompetent. It's been almost a year. He's done nothing for Jon Benet. The lawyers that I've been speaking with in Denver made a suggestion that could just help us. Get a fair hearing with the grand jury. But I can't do it by myself. How can we help? We want you to appoint a special prosecutor. To take the case completely away from Hunter and politics and EGO governor. Everyone seems to forgotten that this is about a murdered six year old girl. Yes I think they have. Let me consider it. Thank you governor? Is Not going to do a thing. So then what? His boss the people who elected him. He's. Okay so I mean. Yeah, just in case you were wondering if these people were rich and powerful, I mean they're sitting with the governor like it's no thing I mean you know the governor is dying to make this. Go Away to though like I feel like the whole state was just up in arms about this, and then it's a bad laura forever. Aby, it was a tough. It was a tough doug aid for Colorado. I gotta say. There was. But yes. Oh! I mean I love that they turned on their best friends. I really do I i. don't know if what I I don't know how I would handle this. If like I, I discovered that my best friends were possibly capable of this. Right I don't know how I would either, but then I'm thinking about it and like. They're talking about Justice Jon Benet, but like is Jon, Benet, wanting looking down from heaven, wanting to see her parents go to jail. You know what I mean. It's all about it's about us. It's about us wanting to know what happened. It's not about Jon Benet. New Maybe? We just found out there. Atheists than they don't think that Jon. Benet is on the other side. They just. You know there. We go the white family atheists, but. I mean like. I found all of this lake. Just kind of incredible. Honestly I live in a big space of denial. Most of the time I don't think I would be able to be honest with myself if I thought my friend. Was this close to getting away with it I think it depends on how who the friends are. Like if it were my best best best friend. Oh my God I don't know it would take me a minute. Right you? You don't I mean. Like there is something wrong with patsy. Shirt the peak of her day is that someone wrote to her and said like Oh. You know I would defend you, but. Can we talk about the fact that they do another weird close up on John? Who they also did a close up of his bad tongue for some reason, they like focused on his is in his. Pupils, are fucking saucers, and I end like it's such a close shot that you can see the actors contacts, but like again. Why? Why now like? Is is are we supposed to think that John's on molly leg is not name. It's gotta be that he's. He's the directors implying the John's on drugs or something. Or like it's just a lazy ass moment I mean bank more on the second. I I would be shocked if John. As a response is developed atoll, addiction or something, but. Anyway. So now day three, hundred, seventy one. The newspaper prints an open letter from the white family It's a full page I. I don't know if it just deserved that type of real estate, or if they bought an ad or something, but like you can tell this is a big day for the whole town. They basically say that this was the fault of John and Patsy for not fully cooperating. We ru fair. Basically John and Patsy read this and proxies like well. What kind of people return on their friends like this? In John's like? Yeah, that's what the public's going to think to like wh. Who are these people credible? If they're going to sell out their own friends, what's her? My God like he's more concerned about like he's just so not bothered. He thinks he's completely immune to it. Right I mean he lives? He's one of those people that lives in like an altered state of reality. These people fascinate me. Where like they see something that means like one thing. It's right there in black and white like it means exactly what does end. You've already written off this whole thing because you're like well, who would possibly believe people who would betray their friends? I'm like John No. One else is reading this with your eyes. No one thinks that way. but yeah, so the COP says that the noise on the nine one one call. There's a copy exactly. That it had gotten out the DA. Basically released the tape. It was like just a move. In so there's this cop outside who I don't think we've ever seen before. WHO's smoking a cigarette and he's like getting up in Steve's face. It said I scream at you. And and seems like no I heard something else i. swear it was like. You know what did I do wrong, and so he goes. What you hear is subjective. A Japanese person would hear Domo. Ari Gatto. Frenchmen would here parlayed. I. For some reason. This cop is such a creek late. Nothing makes me laugh harder than like A. Demented individual like what administered. It's like you know obviously. This hits much more heavy. That is you know. He's a fucking racist COP. Like just flippantly making declarations, but you know it's it's just it's such a character. It's such a type of person. My God. Yeah, it's such a cop character. Ninety S COP character. Yeah Oh Parlay Francais. That's what French people here absolutely so they are. So lose back to share some more thoughts with Steve and then after that we're going to hear the first injury with the police that they were able to get with the RAMSEYS. This is in late August of nineteen ninety nine. Wow! Like. Wow. Yeah! The first interview was like two full years later to two years like six months later. been had their trial by then convicted. Who else can make something last long? Except for the ridiculously rich, it's like the wall Goering, Laughlin in like Moss, emoji a newly thing where it's just like you guys spent millions of dollars to prolong this long enough by the grace of guide for you, a pandemic happens, and then all of a sudden. You're like well. I can make a plea like I'll cooperate now you get no sundance. You get Dang it paying child. Their fines are less than what they paid USC thing. It's like a hundred and fifty thousand dollar discrepancy while amazing amazing. It for them. Okay so another clip. Sorry, this end part is a little heavy, but I wanNA. Make sure you guys here this one. Oh, seven fifty to one eleven thirty nine. Should have given me the tapes. entomologist about these webs Lou. An intruder would have destroyed them and wiped all the dust off the window so not so fast I. I'm sorry, are you saying the spider spun them back for a photo op? That's why we need to talk to an entomologist for God's sake Lou Is there an outside chance of that? I guess there is. Is there an outside chance that the person killed there in the basement and then ran the flashlight upstairs to the kitchen there is. But forgot the ransom note on the stairs. There are no there isn't because an outside chance of this an outside chance of that one hundred other. This adds up to an outside chance of the whole thing there. You go again, detective. You're letting the cart. Lead the horse. You know what I want to see. Do you want to see John Ramsey hanging by his neck? Know? Where was the John Ramsey that lost his first daughter in a car accident? He was inconsolable, devastated bedridden for weeks over a car accident. Where was that John Ramsey I can't say I've never lost two daughters before. Let me ask you this. Where does the Garad fit into your card? Why bother was something so sadistic so cruel, and what about the unknown male DNA in her underwear? That is Steve Steve. I've seen this before Steve. You're out to prove something. It's got nothing to do with this case. If, you guys are finished in here. Hunter just got a letter from Ramsay. Saying your grand jury won't be necessary for them to talk. What a surprise going in front of a grand jury or do an interview. Tough Choice. Shopping! Slowly this spiral stairs to bed with my behind her. Asleep. TERRIER! Say that the. Someone told name you. And They Fisher Department. Priscilla has attracted just like that one I was. Choose the. House. Harrison just sleep. Pretending. Will you. Swear. You didn't do this. I, swear to God. Did you. Prepare for this conversation. I told you we trace. Evidence appears to the death of your daughter. Not Kill my child I didn't have a thing to do with it anyone else. Your wife! Swear to God I. Don't give a flying. Out Scientific. Swear to. Legally Do. Not Do this. Okay. She did not do it. Rolex. John. was. No I have not. Prior to night, she was killed. I! You're talking about. There's a lot there. First of all I want to say that I've always I. Since I was my twenty fifth birthday. I've incorporated Jon Benet into my birthday in some way whether she's on my invitation. Or, something and a few years ago. I had A. Cotton Candy Company Make Me Pineapples. That was called the Burke Ramsey wow I love after you like a bar in New York and it was really funny, 'cause. Girls started to walk up to me and we're like. Do you like, do you? What listen to my favorite murderer? You Murderer Reno. As like, yes, I am but also. I am a a huge stand of this case. in Georgiana Karen like we're dying about my birthday invitation on the show one day, which is how I have Mosa listenership for podcast. That's amazing, but yeah, I mean it is. She's a piece of iconography in a way like that I kind of just she always. You know like I kind of. Can't get over the image of her, and like I've just always been so alert. By, it was just very alluring, so. Like. Okay, let's talk about the vaginal trauma. What which yeah no fun to talk about, but we gotta get into it. Okay okay. I never I never wanted to discuss my vaginal trauma but on. especially that of young girl. Okay so idea that came to me when I was watching. Do you think Lou was possibly part of the pedophile? Oh Wow I. Think Lou is definitely like. Up like on their side somehow. When I was watching this. How can it not feel that way, right? I mean this. They're trying to really paint Steve. As the hero in this, and I believe that the first movie they made was based off of Steve's book, So lifetime has Steve Bias and like they obviously are trying to paint Lou as someone who with the best intentions. Came in in spent a Lotta time deflecting from what was obvious. Right I mean at the. Maybe he's the pedophile ring. He possibly as in the pedophile ring at the same time, you know as much as Lou and that other detective who plays devil's advocate fucking suck like they are necessary for the telling of this story to Chicago, basically how the law works and how? You can't just arrest someone because this is the only logical thing that makes sense like time her to really dig their heels in in Lake you. You know feel like they've they've got. Those characters need to be there to disrupt I do feel bad because Liu worked on this till the day he died. many died I think in two thousand ten, so I mean. He spent many many years of his life completely consumed with this case minute never really sat with him. So in some ways. I'm Kinda like It's a little. To his memory that it was what we just watched I'm like comedown lake. You're going a little. You're going a little bit too hard. Okay so as for the. Vaginal. Situation. Do you think that she was being molested over a long time? Do you think that maybe there was an accident? Like I think it could like? There are accidents that could explain vaginal trauma, but not prolonged vaginal trauma. Did his say prolonged for sure. Has. That's what he said to That's what the detective said to Patsy, and she was very like. You know kind of incredulous about it where she was like. Oh, mcclay prior to that night. I don't think that she knew if something was going on I. Don't think that she knew if I'm being perfectly honest with you. Although I think that's something that a lot of parents willingly unknow if they can yeah, but I also think again for me I think it's burke I think that. If. He's wiping feces on his little sister. Then there's no telling what else he's doing to her as well so I. I kind of agree with I. Hate to say it, but I. do think that Burke was probably I mean he's nine lake. It's not as much as we don't want to think that like a nine year old. Would have any sort of like. Sexual, but they were but. They Let's face it. A nine year. Old boy absolutely dies lake so I wouldn't be like completely shocked especially because it seems like these kids were kind of raised on they kind of raise themselves in some ways like burke was very sort of independent within the house from everything. We've seen like the fact that he's up at night making pineapples milk by himself like he knows his way around yet life. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he had some sort of knowledge, our exposure to like sexual materials, and it's just another way that he sort of took out his anger on his sister. No, that kid is like a little hacker. On the Internet in Nineteen ninety-six finding porn like totally totally boobs dot, com, dude, it's right there. But yeah. I okay so. In terms of. Her defending Burke when patsy besides Burke Ramsey did not do this. I can't help, but think of like the classic. Sort of people reading technique of people when they don't use contractions are much more likely to be lying. Relate when they something back and they say burke didn't like instead of saying he did not like that is contractions are normal. There's something that like you would normally employers employees just like whatever when you go and say do like he did not, and you're being very like very few words or malady, wanting to make sure someone really hears you. which is what I got from her in that scene like she seemed so over this. She couldn't believe that she had to be answering these questions all these years later. for some reason, burke like Koch to being awake the whole time. Pretending to sleep. Yeah, that's weird. Whigham, unlike let's explore that more right. There's no way some almost silently. Doing this right. I didn't know that thing about the contractions, but that makes so much sense. It's like thou dost protest too much like if you really emphatically saying that. That's you're protesting too much. People do it all the time like once you once you learn that you sort of can't hear it when you're trying to figure out of someone's lying to you or not, and obviously that's like anything else like when people say. Oh, you look to the left when you're lying like all that kind of bullshit at the end of the day, but it was noticeable to me and I think that was a direct like those parts directly like. From the rail tapes The, Pineapple, I wish we because that did turn out to be the smoking gun. Yeah, they don't mention it too much here. No, I think this movie was sort of made in response to this CBS documentary and like all the sixty minutes, and all the different dateline step that was going on at this time. This was meet around the same time and so. I'm. Out there and I don't know why they didn't include dot because they feel that was like that's the thing you know the pineapple right, so it's day found pineapple in her stomach and the theory. Is that she that that was burks favorite? Snack and she tried to steal it from him, and he flipped out and killed her. Yes in so like it almost makes sense lake. He's territorial about food, which is would probably explain why. He flipped the fuck out on the therapist who? The Soda Yeah He's like one of those people who's I. Don't touch my stuff. which a lot of kids are that kid? And they don't kill people, but. Yet it was. It was something that I definitely that definitely. That felt similar, so the painting I gotta say like what a Weird! Weird favorite dessert for a kid to have so gross. That sounds so close to me. It's very crab legs from its nineteen fifties dining yet. It's very like Waldorf Salad. Yeah are you familiar with Damon's and Glendale no a good. It's like well I. Like it because it's like sort of local. Kind like! Yeah, it's good. It's steaks and stuff like that. It's like a tiki themed restaurant, but it's a really old l.. A restaurant in one of the ways that they sort of keep that feeling authentic is they have the original menu they had in the thirties or whatever and it's all shit like pineapple in milk, and that is like it's kind of interesting. How like old school? They might, they were, and some of those ways where their kid would know about that and casually make it for himself flake. This family is sort of throwback easy in a lot of. And I think I don't know if it's because the mom was southern, or what, but yeah, I agree. Yeah Steve Finishes, watching interviews and he knows at this point that nothing is going to come out of this. He basically has given up and he feels like everyone is just laughing at them, There's another check to their partner. Who Has Steve what he wants to do about it? And he says he's GonNa. Walk like what's he? GonNa do after all this bad guy in the. Maybe they'll prosecute him. He's basically lost. All faith in this process in feels like if he walks away, that might be the closest. He gets making a statement about how he feels about this. Case 'em how you know how he's being helped In Germany goes wait. The detective isn't supposed to quit. He's supposed to solve the puzzle. Why is this is? How the story supposed to go. So Stephen. Put on another tape his favourite tape of Jon, Benet with the hose. It's her in the yard you know. That's the part of it. That doesn't sit well with me. For some reason. I don't think he's got creeper. Do not! It's kind of a weird way to show his connection Dr Maybe Steve's in the pedophile ring I. Know like honestly. How fucking deep does this go to your sleep? So. The governor reads a statement that Steve is retiring from the newspaper and he's like Oh actually pretty well written Tells, US. Assistant that may be the whites were right. They should hire a special prosecutor. Steve Meets with the whites, and they are bringing in Mike Kane who's like a big shot from town He's going to be the guy. Lou Hands Letter to the chief outside of the court when they're about to do this jury thing and he says I will not be part of the persecution persecution of innocence so. Are. Sold on them. Being in a sense a real raging hard on for them being an then. tells us that Liu, told the jury intruder killed her and kept trying approve it until he died in two. Twenty ten, the grand jury is in session. We see so then thirteen months later. The AD makes statements saying that the grand jury has done a great job with all of this, and that he and the Prosecution Task Force believed that they don't have enough as evidence to bring charges against anyone in. They've investigated so far. and so I think what happened from this. If I'm if I'm following correctly as the jury did make some decisions, but ultimately they felt like they didn't have the evidence to go through with that, but they did like a soft survey of the of this jury. Didn't. They recommend that they'd be indicted? And then they just were never indicted. I mean I think the. The one who said like eighty is like it all checks out here for me, yeah! I don't know I don't know. I think that was in the sixty minutes. Thing is that they were supposed to be indicted and they just never were. Yolo I mean I. Guess like three months after this is the title cards at the end, but three months after that grand jury met together. The case. expired in terms of statute of limitations. Should not be statute of limitations on the murder of a child. Sexually assaulted I. Mean That's just fucking insane to me like the fact that. There's a statute of limitations on like you know a child being molested, and like you know they might have that realization years later where the person who hurt them is. Working. You know with kids or whatever it just it. Those things should just socially. Out of all the laws we have in this country. I feel like that should be one. Night is adjusted so. The Whites Watch. All this. UNFOLD ON TV and they are infuriated. They're walking away with no answers and Steve Watches with his wife and she tells him that he did everything he could. and. He Says No I. Didn't I gave up any walks out of his office and. Visit looks at his picture of Jon Benet in. He says you know. I made a promise and now I need to tell the truth, so he writes a book about being inside the investigation and right away, he sued for a variety of things specifically one of them being that he used inside police information stuff that really I mean honestly I'm kind of. Stunned that. He thought he could get away with that right, but good for him. I guess like of even the publisher like A. Why would you take that on? A lot of people feel like this was a publicity grab for him and that he was really trying to profit off of her name. the Ramsey is right their own account. What happened that paints pretty much completely opposite picture. we're seeing like basically all the media this shows up in. People are building websites that contain the evidence in. The public is very invested in this so then in two thousand six. The phone rings at the Ramsey House in patsy picks up. It's her doctor informing her that she needs to come in. This is one you know leading up to her out. She has cancer, so then Stephen Linda catch up with some drinks on the back porch. this May, there's something in here. That made me think of use ZIP ugly. And then we go to the Atlanta palliative centre right after that so one twenty to one twenty to thirty. I think job trimming trees. My boss is I. Keep Name Carlos. He's nineteen. I read your book. My Legal Bill. Yeah. All Goalie. Everything. Sorry. I still think about her sometimes. Not a day goes by the. Yeah. Thousand the lie. I, think about it all the time. I hear patsies cancers back. Not. Well I gotta get to work. What are you doing now? I started a small carpentry business. That fits good. Good to see STI. You Youtube. Patsy. You once asked me to find jonbenet's killer. And I told you I would. PATSY! Just you John Burnett that house. Is, there something you WanNa tell me now. Why what a good scene! Yeah, it's great I love that if This is true that Linda had the ball St-. To show up to patsies. But. The part that made me think of you. In the beginning, when Linda says, she had to take a job cutting down trees, and she has a nineteen year old boss. I. Was Thinking that is such. A Natalie beach move. Like. The same feeling that I had in the Carolinas I was Caroline Caldera's say. where I'm like you know. Natalie. You could've worked inside of the whole foods like series. Doubt that leg. You were so homely that you couldn't get a job at the gap lake you had. You had to take the toughest job possible. Rates she's like working in a steel mill. Go straightening. Holloway's book. which just like I would I couldn't I couldn't never write that essay like obviously caroline socks, too, but like not as Sade, really like got under my skin, and when when just hearing Linda Day that she took on this absolutely unnecessary labor for her to take on like she's not anymore qualified to do that than she is still like fold t shirts at sears right right right right I like what a Natalie beach moved. Go get the job. That is the most. Most, physically intensive, and like personally for some reason degrading thing to you and also my secret theory is that Natalie could have worked inside the whole foods. She likes watering the lettuce and she can own it own it now. When the lettuce wasn't that bad for you, this is so funny because on my podcast, we say all the time that all roads lead back to Caroline Calloway and they do. Oh, trust me, I mean. I was looking for an excuse to bring this? No. because. We are so close to wrapping this up. And this is just like a clear in to talk about what it is. You do on your podcast. Yes, to know about all this I need to know all the T- like I need to know your thoughts on caroline. I need to know what you think is like the most interesting scam you've covered because your podcast is all about basically breaking down scam yes. Oh, my God so caroline! We sent someone undercover to her. Artist retreat to go as gas and then report on it and. She said it was hilarious. Caroline was an hour late and gave them a gift bag with a stick. And a candle and a votive candle in it, and it's just crazy I go back and forth on Carolina sometimes. I feel bad for her. And then I'm on this sub read. It called small bean snark, and that subrata is like no, she's manipulating you manipulate. She wants you to feel bad for her like with her dad's death, and all this stuff so I go back and forth between thinking she's not scammer, and then, but this latest round of her like monetize ing, and doing an only fans, and like shitting on sex workers, but then trying to be like a like a high class. Sex worker is made me like dislike her truly to the car. We asked her to come on when we did our episode on her. She shared it and said that we were bowling her. which we were, we were like very objective, but clearly she didn't listen to it. We emailed her manager to come on, and she respectively declined. But she is the one that keeps on giving. She's fascinating. I got really into the dark web for one episode which I liked to. There's so much shit on there. You can. Yeah can buy like credit card. Numbers and Mike. Do Real scamming. It's to say the least like the dark web is is truly I mean not on another level. What happens on there? It's not like you can watch human sacrifices on there my God. It's crazy. Have you heard of Red Rooms I've? Is that like where murderers happening? Basically. It's like a live streamed room where like a human being is getting tortured, and it's like a vegas betting events like really wealthy. Get together, and like watch this person get tortured, and you can pay extra money to have a certain type of torture unto them, and it's like it's. It's what you think. People who are have so much money and so much access like when they get bored. It's exactly what you would think. They would do to cure that boredom linkages just. You should not be able to buy an. They have figured out a way to do it and it's really sick. Shit like it's. It's really sick. Shit and I think there's more of it going on than people could possibly consider like normal. People just don't think like that. I have to look at. That sounds crazy. Also, I'm obsessed with Epstein. And the Epstein case because that is just like there's so much to unravel there and so many people who are tied up in it and so many people lying about shit obsessed. It's great. I I'm obsessed with that too, and I don't know if you've seen on Google I'm sure you have like the Drone footage of his island, yes. And like it, you I mean you know looking at it. Everything has to be going on underground like what is under that thing is the question like it's just it's A. I go to all sorts of places about what capacity down there. I saw some account with some neighbor or like, or maybe it was like a drone through the window or something. That's dental chairs like I. Don't know what Kinda Shit he has. New netflix documentary like barely scratched the surface, sh-. Oh, I haven't seen that yet. It's like four episodes. It's probably the shit that you already know. Yeah I mean okay. Listen I don't want to be too repetitive because I did. Talk about a little bit about caroline. with the previous guests. WHO's obsessed about with this, too, but I feel like you are like the resource soy really WanNa. Talk more about it. I have to say I am codependent person to a fault. I am like disgustingly overly empathizing. Like I can find a reason to make an excuse for anyone I'm on the team of people that Kinda didn't think that her quote. Unquote artist retreat was a scam as much as it was just like a MIS marketed meet-and-greet, and like there are people all. All the time who charge two three hundred four hundred dollars, not even just like the big celebrities of the world, but like you know influencers and stuff they're charged. You know two hundred fifty bucks to come. Meet them at an event and I'm Kinda like you know. I've spent one hundred sixty bucks on some of the dumbest Shit than that has four. Yeah no lake, or but like that Steph, you'll use like I've thrown one hundred sixty dollars away without a second thought in my life and I'm Kinda like well if that's where you decided to put your money, that's kind of what you got like. What do you expect like I? Never really found that to be a scale although I am really interested in what's going on with her book scammer? In the fact that she you know. Incentivize people to buy multiple copies because they would get autographs that she really is sold that in this thing when publishers are in fact up in working. In this book out, and she said she she's like didn't release the last part of it or something, right? Like. That's not even the book that's like another article that she's just writing behind a paywall and she donated a bunch of that money to like Kobe relief, but like that wasn't supposed to be in lieu of the book that was supposed to be like an additional Ryan she could earn. It is I wouldn't be shocked if when she saw cove. It happened that she thought okay. I can lie about the publishers being shut down. And released, and then write something like more campy, because like what she looked like she was selling was essentially a children's book based off the cover and everything. It seemed like it was going to be a quick read, so the thing that really soured me on her are like I was being objective, and even like when we went to this artist's retreat when our correspondent Mackenzie went I was open, minded and I was like I don't think that's a scam. I was but a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if you saw this, but people found her AIRBNB profile and oh. Yes and like I have to say I'm an avid airbnb user myself, and like you can just feel that sort of unspoken airbnb energy in the posts where you try to not bury a person, and so people were like four stars like the day I got there. I had to do three hours of laundry and they're. The place was a mess, but overall. It's a great location and. and. Then the one review that was left for her was. Break people back and there was a teapot Lopez. She pissed the teapot. That's the thing that made me turn on her up until then was objective, but then it's like. Why are you pissing? Strangers Teapot, come on. Okay so this is my theory on that. I think that she got some strange wherever she was staying in that. Because that's a guy, move right. Role isn't GonNa Piss in a teapot like the logistics of it just a nightmare so I don't think a woman would confidently piss in a teapot, but I think guys slough I mean there are just those guys out there that like pissing water bottle and light day accidentally leave it in their car for a week like it feels like a very dude thing in lake. Something that she wouldn't think to check before she left. Wow Out. Now I didn't even think of that. That is a great theory. Maybe I'm I didn't caroline. fucks, gross people, but then also. Like. Obviously Carolina is just so many of the things. She's done her questionable like. You can't even say like Oh the antisemitic step aside. There is no putting that aside. I I don't I wasn't. An intentional though I don't know that's what my guest said to me last week and she's. Jewish cares very much about this stuff. She said honestly I think. Caroline drinks a lot on an empty stomach. And people. You know I said I feel like people probably tried to set her up. A lot of people probably DM her things like hoping that she'll be lazy enough to post it or like not see through it and you know, but if you look at the comment that was attached to it, it was very like Oh. Greedy Hollywood Jews like love money like that was sort of the undertone of the whole tweet, and once I saw I was just like. Oh, I can't like the two of those together. That is not. That's not hitting right for me, but. I will say with small being snarky. I've checked it out a lot of cord like I'll go back once in a while and check it out. I've never really commented or anything. It seems like that's a community of people. That are never going to give her credit or benefit of the doubt on any. Leg they have stay are so committed to everything she does is wrong like sometimes the non things that they'll make issues of on there like now. You're telling yourself now. Now. It like you took this completely innocuous saying and like turned it into like okay. She thinks it's just like they're all in the bitchiness, crackers stage with her, but like on another level but the only fans again I talked about this part. My friend to this is what concerns me for her mental health because I think she thought that through. Yeah, and I have a lot of friends who are sex workers in take like private snaps and stuff like that I. CanNot Express how much I do not have a problem with that life, but everyone I know who's involved with. It has thought very long and hard about how they're going to do it. How the either pretends themselves if they don't WanNa be found, or whatever like. This is not something to take casually and when I. I'm like the number one reply on that tweet to her because I tweeted at her like Carolina. Look Great, but take this down when we can. You know when someone posts a shot of their titties at what like eleven pm Florida time on twitter? Because they didn't write part of essay. That doesn't seem particularly thought out lake. She launched into something that will affect her for the rest of her life. I think and I I think she does act very impulsively and she doesn't think things through that said I, do think she's a hustler and she's a good businesswoman and like you have to give credit for that. Oh any day of the week. I will say like that's why I'd never problem with the dreamer. BB's I'm like. Let her seldom leg it will. It will run out eventually, but it's something tangible. She's creating. If People WanNa pay for that, let them pay for it like don't my thing is i? Don't ever count anyone else's money. If people are willing to throw money at that, that's their life. You know that doesn't get an. And you know what some people. This is a demented world. Okay, some people might just want a piece of paper that Caroline Calloway touched. It's like just it's. It's part of the bit. Think that she's trying to do performance art, but doesn't really like the character that she's been a forced to commit to it because I don't think it aligns with who she is as a person and what she believed she is, but she knows how it's how she's perceived, and that's like a a big burden on someone I think and it's. She's doesn't seem like she's doing great. In my opinion. No, she doesn't and like Ah Shit that she posts about her. Dad. Are just like it's too much. It's like honey and this is private. You should not be sharing this. Hock. I know speak of public grief but I funny enough. I also asked Caroline because IBM to are a couple times like she followed me after I tweeted her to like not nudes or something and. I said to her like do you WanNa? Come on my lifetime podcast in. Do the movie homeless to Harvard with me? She never back. We emailed her manager and she wrote back, and he wrote back after like three weeks and said now. Yeah I mean I'm sure they get a Lotta asks but. okay so. Yeah when when John Walked in on Linda, like like talking to Patsy, he had this look of horror on his face almost as if he knew that he couldn't leave her alone for five minutes. Just in case, someone showed up to ask her for a duck. Bad Confession like he didn't seem to know that Linda was there. He just seemed keenly aware that she was about to spill all where she was at that point in her life and he yeah, you truly look horrified, really did. So it's two thousand, thirteen Stevens doing some carpentry in his Gra In his garage and I. The way I think Steve They mentioned at the end that he's a successful entrepreneur and I really wish that like Steve went on Shark tank because I think that he has the exaggerate story, I think the sharks would totally be into him I. Think they would invest anything in him. Steve So. Okay while us. You know sawing away. His wife plugs his machine and he's like. Basically you gotta come. See what's on TV. So what's going to play out over the next? Like two and a half minutes is basically. The rest of the movie This is where we all wrap it up here so one twenty, two to one, hundred, fifty six to one twenty five. In a startling development in the Jon Benet Ramsey case in response to a lawsuit brought by Reporters Committee for freedom of the press, the court released today four pages of an eighteen page grand jury indictment secretly issued in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine against on Patsy Ramsey, charging the couple with two counts each child abuse, resulting in death, an accessory to murder. Andrea carry reporting live in Boulder Colorado. where I am now. I've been here for twenty years. I've seen a lot of things for here. I've seen mommy. Di I've seen daddy get married again. Burke working with computers. And I've seen you to all of you. Looking at me. What do you see when you look at me? a Steve See. I. Forgive you Steve. I'm sorry to. Do Life would have been better without me. All the bedtime stories Mommy, and Daddy read to me had happy endings, but my story doesn't have an ending at all. Because, it's not a fairy tale. It's real life. And in the story of my life, the bad guys don't get caught. The Nice people don't win. I can't click my ruby slippers and go back home. I still don't know who the bad guy in my story is I guess I never will. Maybe. That's okay with me now. Maybe I can let go. Okay. Before I read the title cards, or at the end can I just say that my personal vision of who Jon Benet says that she is like a restless Bech like she is like absolutely do not I am not settling. This will not be the end of my story. I don't think she is going to have like Christian forgiveness to her. I feel like in my mind has the spirit of Zumur. Who's just like fuck? This I'm taking everyone down with me how? Love that for her I do. I. Mean I think it's better than this version where they elect this voice voiceover actress apologize. On to Steve for failing to solve her murder, and you know that she forgives and forgets about what's happened I think that that's just dumb. It's so sort of disgraceful to her memory. Yeah, I think this ending voiceover is very. SACCHARIN and it's very like. Dumb. Like. Under IT UNDERESTIMATES ARE I think it was probably written alive. Yeah, you know hundred. Okay, then we get a bunch of title cards over. The graves. Which I mean I think is actually her gravestone. Honestly, it looks exactly like, but it's as patsy. Ramsey died of cancer in June. Two thousand six, John Ramsey wrote a book on coping with suffering and unsuccessfully ran twice Michigan House of Representatives. That's Kinda depressing. Yeah, that's so depressing! I had no I had never heard that before. Like. Why does he want to be out there like that? Exactly, that's what I'm saying. They love the notoriety. Exactly like that's you know, he could have lived the rest of his life without anyone ever bothering him, but he decided to run for state representative. Okay, the statue of limitations on the charges against John and Patsy Ramsey expired three months after the hunter led the public to believe, there was no charges at all. So He's in the pedophile ring to fleet and Priscila white continue to fight for the release of the remaining fourteen pages of John and Patsy Ramsey's indictment brand jury. Burke Ramsey is now a computer programming? COMPUTER PROGRAMMER LIVING IN ATLANTA Steve Thomas never returned to law enforcement after the Ramsey case, he's successful businessman, husband and father, so he did have kids. That's good good. Good. I mean what movie I always find. These true crime wants to be a little hard. If it's a case, you've followed but I don't think anything short of Lake in extremely crazy well-produced, like maybe even a twenty four movie type version of this was released I. Don't think any movie would satisfy me. Yeah about. With this case, and it's also just we I don't even really think we've seen video of Jon benet talking. No never I? Don't think just pageants, we have. We have no idea like what she sounded like what her essence was like. She really just sort of lives in these photographs of her all dolled up so. yeah, I mean. I think this was better than the first movie, but I really hated the A really hated the voice over. So did you see? The Casting Jon. Benet Movie Yes Oh my God. That's so creepy Powell that I thought though was such a unique tae cast, because not only did you get to hear about the murderer? But then like you learned about these weird kind of unemployed character actors lives and like their own. told on themselves a couple time like there was like a like a creepy ass. Doodoo played John I believe and he was like. Oh, I. Think. It was like pedophile. said it. It's like Oh. You have personal experience with that. I love that I love the way it was shot on the way it was told I thought it was fascinating. Was it four this? Like what were they casting for? They were I think the movie was never casting for anything over. I think that all it was really casting for. Was that recreation at the end where they had like multiple patsies in a room multiple like that was just genius the way they pulled that off I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in. It was almost as campy as this case sort of needs and deserves like we need a campy answer to it, which is unfortunate, but I think a lot of people are also attached to this case I know I obviously have never moved past it. Director of this movie has done He did the unauthorized saved by the Bell Movie Restless Virgins He's done a few movies that we've done here and I think that. A lot of the acting stuff is like direction in my mind with these movies. It's just like not really reading the room but yeah, it's the views are pretty pop in on IMDB. I feel like we should wrap this up. Normally. Get into some of that but I feel like we wrap this up. You were amazing. Thank you so much to. We're GONNA make sure that all of your information is in description the podcast including a link to your pod. What does your podcast come out? Yeah, we come out on usually every Thursday. Awesome while I am so excited I feel like. People listening while head over in in. Listen to you guys and thank you so much for taking the time to do this with me. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me. Of course all right, guys. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening by.