20 Episode results for "Johnson City"

Basic Folk 54: Amythyst Kiah

Rock N Roll Archaeology

58:20 min | 1 year ago

Basic Folk 54: Amythyst Kiah

"The diggers you have entered the halls of Pantheon podcasts. What you aren't listening to is new ordinary very podcast feed? This is an audio music magazine where you may or may not read. Well listen to be more exact to all the articles. But if you do indulge us here you will find amazing new content including music history commentary interviews reviews and more to satisfy the music lover in you here in the main hall. You will find all of the amazing music based PODCASTS. That make up the Pantheon network. Bud If you prefer each podcast title also has their own feed so you can find. Follow them wherever you are listening to great podcasts. The choice is yours and eh We'll hello and welcome to basic folk. A podcast where we have on his conversations with folk musicians. I'm your host Cindy House. Oh my goodness I hope you're keeping warm. It's like two degrees in Boston. And I'm about to head down to New Orleans for the Folk Alliance International Conference friends which is happening. And I'm going to be gathering some really cool basic folk interviews that I am pumped to share with you also have been rocking. Ah Very own basic folk beanie and if you're jealous which it should be because they're amazing you can get your own at my website Cindy House Dot net if you're not familiar millions. These are knit hats that my mom made and they have basic folk label on the front of them and again you can check them out on my website. Cindy House Dot net net or you can go to my instagram. There are several pictures today on the podcast. Very happy to have amethyst Kia who who is an extremely talented Banjo player and Guitar Player Originally from Chattanooga Tennessee now lives in Johnson City Tennessee. A really cool person Immediately liked her right away And we talk about a number of different things Coming of age in the early two thousands although having like really tremendous taste from the ninety s like Nirvana and Tori Amos. The most percents her favorites and then later on she combined the love of those types of bands with old time and kind of saw. Aw Similarities between them in your own style which is a pretty cool. We also talk about being a loner when she was a kid And how how that affects her musicality. In interesting ways we talked about her collaboration with Rian Giddens Alison Russell and Layla McCallum in our our native dot we really cover it all here with 'em this Kia who. I'm very pleased to have on the PODCAST and would love to share a clip of her version of trouble so hard which is from her album. AMETHYST KIA and her chest of glass which is a little bit more like alternative rock sounding but you'll probably recognize the phrase but Originally recorded by Alan Lomax and it was very award hall singing the songs. So let's hear it and then we'll get into our conversation sation with Amethyst Kia on basic folks on body. No No emphas- thank you so much introducing this. Yeah definitely Me Sure So you were born in Chattanooga and raised in Johnson City Tennessee being from southern Appalachia in reading reading up about us. Something cool that I read is how you feel about mountains and how they seem to like symbolize feeling of home was wondering during. She could talk about that a little bit more about that connection. Oh yeah well just to just to kind of clarify so actually so. I was raised in Chattanooga but I've I've been living in Johnson city for fifteen years so that wasn't really that far off the mark but just to make that distinction. I just because I graduated from high school in Chattanooga but Yeah S. O.. Living in East Tennessee my entire life I For the longest time I didn't really necessarily think of myself as a mountain personal and Appalachian person for a really really long time because I grew up in suburbia and I listened to like you know. Bleak when eighty two in Tori Amos Amos and radiohead and all that kind of stuff. So like I was kind of in this other world And Not really thinking in terms of my place of where I'm from because I was always kind of all in my own little world in my head so it wasn't really until when I moved to Johnson Johnson City and I started studying traditional music started to really kind of reconnect myself to my place which was it was a really kind of pivotal in grounding moment for me to feel like I have like a physical place In in a physical space because so much of my teenage years was as I said spent kind of you know getting lost in books getting lost in music and being a part of other worlds and not necessarily feel feeling a little bit disconnected to where I lived so It gave me a sense of grounding being in it wasn't really until a couple of years ago That I really started to understand. End My connection in need to be near mountains and that was when I was driving from Connecticut to lake placid to meet up with reengaged ends under touring party to open for them in Lake placid and drove through their adirondack mountains. And I never been there before and all of a sudden I just felt I in my head. I was like I could live here. That just jumped out like involuntarily early and I'm like okay. I'm a mountain person so so Yeah I mean that is a huge. That's GonNa play a huge role. If I ever in a move from Johnson city that mountains is going to play a huge role and I mean I guess it's probably a mix of you know the music and the people that I've met along the way and just the landscape wake. It's just something that always has to be you know always has to be a backdrop so in thinking about When you were like a little kid too old to have your own taste in music Your Dad ad had a great record collection. And I'm interested to know like how your family's shared music with each other and share music with you. Yeah well you know the majority Jordy of the music Sharing really was At at home and in the car my both of my parents absolutely loved music. It can so All the music sharing really was just in the home of my dad. had a had vinyl player hit a record player and and he had a CD player and he had like a compressor in. Reel to reel tape like he was really into it and he had these lake three way Like Sansui speakers and so you know everything that I heard was really shared in Sheridan the house and then you know anytime we would take any long trips anywhere. There's always music playing in the car. Radio what he sits you down and say very amethyst initiative. Listen to this or where he would just play it and you know he would just he would just play it you know and if I had any questions I would ask and also he would he would just love to just on his own accord Talk about you know on his own so it was just kind of A. It was very kind of casual kind of exchange. You know with that but as you became old enough to have your own tastes music it was kind of like a weird time for music consumption assumption. You're in high school from two thousand two thousand four and like napster illegal downloading this eye man pirated so much music. Yeah hopefully that's over. The statue of limitations is up now said experience like as a music fan during that time in terms of like how you listen to music and if it affects you at all now as you reflect on on that particular time Well I guess for me during that time you know especially it was because it was right around the time also that I was starting to get into playing guitar And so for me when I really started developed my own like seeking out of music And kind of figuring things that I liked You know I had had Kazaa and then eventually lime wire when Kazaa was kind of going out but you know I would get on like you know fan forms with music and I would like to talk to others so there was like these different online communities that were centered around different different Different kinds of music and so I was really heavily like online with that right and then You know searching for songs and creating will for me. I know before me was mix tapes but in my generation it was mix CDs and so I would I would spend like ours. Download music and making mix tapes because it was like if I wanted to listen to something I had to make aac tape but mix CD had to make a mix CDs so I could put it in my like giant book CD Sleeve and my CD Walkman in Ohio. Go when I go different places so I can listen to my music or listen to music in my in my room so There was something about out finding songs and putting together a mix CD that was I just loved it was fun and so that way of consuming it uh-huh you kind of had to be a lot more deliberate and think about what you were doing. I kind of feel like now with streaming services and being able to have things like spotify notifier apple. Music I hate to say this but it it kind of it kind of takes the fun out of like finding music like a little bit Just because it's so easy you know it's like I can download like you know ten albums from my phone and like five minutes less than five minutes and so so I don't know it's it's so it's kind of changed for me in that it's just I don't know it's a little it's I I kind of miss that kind of how mixed go into blockbuster and picking out movies like that hunt of light going in and finding ahead its own catharsis. That was almost as that was just as important as the listening to music so had to sort of adjust of course. Adjust my thinking enroll with the Times uh-huh but but yeah you get your first guitar newer thirteen thirteen and one thing. That's so interesting about. You is the different kinds of styles that you've mastered over the years like alternative folk. BLUEGRASS old time Celtic. How how has each of these styles changed your relationship with the guitar? Like how you approach playing how you feel about the instrument. God God you. These are great questions. Thank you so much. I don't always get questions. This great. How those things change my purchase guitar or affected my relationship with the Tar I mean it's just like further strengthen it I guess is the best way to put it Because it it feels like if it just kind of feels like the sky's the limit. I can do whatever I want with the guitar. It's my main the main thing I grabbed when I'm writing songs and I've been playing Banjo for several years now but when I write a song I picked up my guitar. I you know I you know the just the sound of the car and the things that I can do with it. It's just it's it's just strengthened. My relationship with it I guess is the best way to describe it. It's like it's almost like each each new style or each new struggle. All kind of like brought you in the guitar together. Like like yeah human relationship almost exactly and you know on top of that. The the strong relationship is with my guitar and we can do the stronger the stronger that my that I feel like I can the stronger that my songs can be MM-HMM I kind of feel like one of the big things. When I decided that I wanted to start? Playing so shows is that my songs are only going to be strong as guitar. Playing I WANNA be able to play a show by myself and people still stay interested stat. That involved me doing different things only guitar that can allow me to do different kinds of arranging songs in a different way in them differently. You now now and so two. Having that kind of Flexibility Guitar Wise Just really helped my songwriting. A Lot. So so yet strengthened my relationship with that guitar itself and Really opened doors for me as far as like the kinds of songs that I can right. So you're listening to alternative music when you're younger In high school he mentioned Tori Most Ravana radiohead I found this really cool quote from you. That said it was it was is the oneness with solitude that I was able to explore music in an unfiltered way with little interruption. This focus would lead me to exert the that same amount of energy into studying being in performing traditional music Couple things so I guess like so it sounds like you so you have a degree. In in traditional music you studied it not only studied performing about the history of it. Yes but it also sounds like you studied alternative turn it music and music. You're listening to in high school with the same amount of like discipline. So I was wondering what that like initial initial study of Nirvana and Tori Amos was like and how how you pay you. Form that practice and brought it with you to your Undergrad degree. Well one thing that I've learned about my personality. Is that if I'm not emotionally moved by something thing. It's really hard for me to be interested in wanting to learn about it and with the reason why I was able to have so much. Focus on alternative. Music is because I related to a lot of the songs a lot of the content. A lot of things things are being talked about related to Just you know the the the passion and the the distinct authentic character of the voices The risks that they would take In their music. I just really related to that. It felt like Just sort would've alternate freedom like matched to my spirit of how I wanted to live my own life. You know and because of that I just wanted to listen to as much as as I could so I'm just down to like the way I like emotionally related to it and that ended up transferring over into old time music. I saw lots of overlap As far as like the spirit and the content if a lot of old time music you know because a lot of old time music is you know that we consume as via a field recordings. You have these folks that when they were performing playing they were you know really just playing in their communities and regionally communicating with one another in a more region away and so when they would perform they would have these very distinct character in their voice and that overlap of like distinct sense of character itself off That I feel is exemplified. A lot in a lot of forms of alternative music. I felt that crossover with the full music I listening to so the passion equally just Kinda went down that path again so I feel like we could have a whole other podcast but they have more other questions but like yeah I would love to talk about that forever and ever So did you did you keep to yourself as a kid. Yeah I would say when I was younger I was a little more I was a little more outgoing when I was younger. But when I got a little bit further into like what turn into like twelve thirteen fourteen and onward I started feeling a little out of places like I didn't really fit in anywhere And I don't know kind of just developing like different these different social anxieties Zaidi's and I think a lot of it was probably based in You know being a you know being a black female in a predominantly white suburban area a lot of my I- friendships and relationships interacted with And also I feel. They didn't go to church. Either in Chattanooga is a it's a it's a fairly large city but it's it's a very very religious city and a very racially tense city So it it made it a little difficult to to really like make friends or find a group that I felt comfortable and and so I ended up kind of the best solution was okay okay. We're GONNA play guitar and keep reading my books and do this and so as I got older like that became my refuge because I didn't really feel like if anywhere else it wasn't really until my last is two years of high school. My parents saw that like 'cause I was really bright student but when it when I got into high school and you know then if you bring in like me being you know not being sure my sexuality through that in the mix you throw in the mix that I was you know gender non conforming to Tom and I didn't and I wanted to keep dressing. How is dressing you all that in? You've got a lot of Lot of stuff to unpacked so so my parents transferred me to creative arts high school high school and only my only wishes that I that I could have gone sooner. You know but I. I'm grateful for those two years that I did go because it gave me an idea of like this is what every every kid should be able to be in a place where they can be inert. There were the theater nerds the band. Geeks like all the Weirdos. Were at the school you know and so it was a great experience but that really Really set set a precedent that like you know. There's other people out there so I think I'll be alright. Yeah you also play basketball. Yeah I play basketball from. I guess the fourth grade until eighth grade and I came to find that solitary pursuits. Were just kind of more more at my alley now which proved to which proved to be a little bit of a a take learning curve for me when I did start playing music with other musicians. I had a huge learning curve that I had to overcome. So you know but yeah it was the challenge there when you're playing with other musicians well so to go back a little bit. You know part of the reason why by family like like had my both parents had three goals for me and that was to make good grades play some kind of sport or some sort of group activity where can interact with people and then yeah. He's all set right and then play some kind of some kind of instrument like that was like a like a family goal And what made it difficult to overcome playing with other musicians because I went for several several years the first ten years of playing guitar by myself. So when got to do and You know I started to get involved with the community. I remember my first bluegrass jam that I ever played in. I remember them asking me like what was I playing and I'm like I have no idea what you're talking about like I had no clue. I mean I've learned how to play by ear and I played by myself self. I never had to know the key of the song I just would move. Move the capable around until its till I could sing in the whatever. Whatever song was that I wanted to learn so then I was like and then I picked the only then for some reason? I didn't know any traditional song that that time. So I played weird by Hanson. So I was. It was a total jam. Buster like people got up and left but some people were sitting there like back. What and then some people tried to play along you know? So that gives you any idea like my introduction delay getting into like you know playing introducing music community like that was it. You know Because I was like I said I was so like added touch with like that world. You know coming into it so really a lot of my learning about performance stage presence working with other musicians learning theory in a way that functions well for You know popular music as it were. All of those things happened through that bluegrass country music studies and like set a great foundation for me be able to have a career in music. You know You know getting up in performing You know initially it's initially you know you end up playing playing like these three like main like all student shows and then there's other bands which happened to be the one that I was in Called the old fulltime pride band which we were able to go and we would meet twice a week instead of once a week and then we would also be invited to play other other places places around the area and even had a chance to play in the Czech Republic In twenty eleven so So anyway all of that kind of position. A huge part of how able to overcome that that sorta learning curve of you know being able to like interact and and in a meaningful way and be able to very able to create and collaborate with other musicians. So is it okay to ask about in. Your mom passed away when she died. You're eighteen and it seems like music played a huge role in that healing process. Oh you wrote a song for her and sang at the funeral. What made you decide to approach your grief like that? Well it's a big part of it had to do with I didn't know what else to do with the grief. I think maybe during that whole ordeal. I think I might've cried once but I kind of ended up more or less numbing myself. And the only way that accurately expressed anything was to writing it writing a song. Because because I wasn't I was just repressing it. It was just a coping mechanism. I was just kind of repressing. How is feeling I was repressing crying? I was in so I wrote that song long and then after that And I was actually just rethinking this the other day but that whole process after that like I wasn't really crying about it and I wasn't really talking about it and I wouldn't really talk about it for years other other than with my dad And and I realized that my group was coming out like in other ways like I remember that first year You know I pretty much lost my appetite. You know I think I might have eaten. I might have eaten like maybe a thousand fifteen hundred calories a day for like almost two years I lost like a ton away You know because I already and then I had like these weird like body issues with myself so when I started losing the way I I was like Oh this is cool. You know. I mean it doesn't make any sense but it's cool until a talk cool right. It's it's cool until you like start to pass out because is your daisy. So you know So that was the whole thing like I started. I remember I started like you know my mom's on my mom's old clothes that she you couldn't wear anymore because she had gained weight like I was like wearing her clothes like I was my grief was coming out in these other ways that they didn't really think about until the other the day I was going down that path. I'm like wow that was I was grieving It's just was in a way that was very it was just a little. Uh I don't know if subtle is even the right word but it was just I was keeping it all in and then just doing little things that I guess were a way to cope with it. I guess but it wasn't the healthiest way To cope with it. And this is all you know me talking. In hindsight it wouldn't be until about I. Guess about up to about four years ago when I started going to therapy When I really started like unpack? Because they were still there was like a two year period. Where there you know? I had graduated from Undergrad College. And then I decided to go straight into Grad school. After that and I didn't really have a plan. It was just that I was so used to being in school that I was afraid to like even though I was already like starting gaining like an audience like where I lived at could've continued pursuing music but but I stayed in school because I was afraid again. Misses me talking. In hindsight I was afraid to like really face the real world in a sense it's and so then it went to two year period where I wasn't really ready for Grad school and I was stressed out. All the time and I was over I was stretched out way too fan incident. I started like going out partying Had this like weird like year and a half party phase and then eventually like my dad's like listen. Listen I've been I've been really wanting to support you with going to Grad school but like this is destroying you. You should really encourage you to because he started going to therapy and he was encouraging me to go so I did and then I started to realize all of this stuff I was doing. That didn't make any sense was is related. To the fact that I hadn't really full on grasped the the grief from my teenagers So that was kind of the beginning of me unpacking and allowing myself to cry more and I've cried more now probably in the past four years my have my entire life because I've just allowed for it to happen when it needs to happen. You know so So yeah it's been this really long strange inge kind of journey and you know I wrote a song called Wild Turkey which is gonNA be on the new record and it's directly talking about those years of like you know going and trying to pretend like everything's fine but like it came out in other ways My I built this huge wall up and separated myself from people. I don't think my whole Undergrad. I don't think I ever developed any personal relationships with anyone. It was always either student relationship or studer studer student professor relationship but I didn't have like a social life. It wasn't until will also like back in the closet to then so when I was twenty seven which I don't know I hear that there's something about turning twenty-seven like all your cells regenerate regenerate or something and you're kind of indifferent person I don't know but I'll of some of like you know what I'm going to start dating and I wanNA start having social relationships with people because as I was tired of not doing that and then I went into it but I basically was like I was basically basically acting like a like a sixteen year old because I never developed those like social skills. You know what I mean so. I had this late bloomer thing happening but I managed to like learn quite a bit in those in those years. And it's like I I don't. It's kind of like a headache. My early twenties moment in my late twenties accepted only lasted for like two or three years. As opposed to like seven or eight. I guess I don't know but yeah I don't know it's just been so wild. Turkey is kind of like me being like okay this happened. I'm recognizing going to happen and also kinda telling my younger self that it's okay to not be okay you know And then the other song run on the record called firewater is talking about like towards the end of my party. Phase went like things. Were no longer fun when it was very clear that something else was going on with me that I needed to explore Songs also on the record to so So yeah once again music and song being my way of like trying reconcile stuff you know so. Wow who all right different topic but also very important. You had a revelation in studying traditional music Roots Musicians are historically portrayed as white and when people of Color have played roots music in the past. It's portrayed as like stereotypically he'll billy But that is not an actuality. What was your experience that this topic and coming to the realization of the actual truth? Well I will say that there. There was a one class in particular One particular semester that involved class and and instructor and aband- so there were three things that were happening at once that glimmer down the path of like okay. I want to look more into old time music. And that was my American folk music class. Where Dr Ted Olson who is it's like get grammy nominated Professor He got your mom. The nation's for his liner notes for the Bristol sessions box at the Johnson city sessions box set APPs. He's A. He's literally an encyclopedia like just amazing. Amazing Brilliant Appalachian scholar of the highest order And we one of the first things that we learned in the class was that southern Roots Music Apple Appalachian Roots Music is a generally a conglomerate of West African British Celtic folk music. Kinda it coming together and that was the first time I had ever because up until this point all I knew about Appalachian Music was bluegrass. And All I knew about bluegrass was the beverly hillbillies like most people you know or like or deliverance. Or some other like SORTA got awful caricature of it so so So that piqued my interest because initially what attracted me to even going down the path of even exploring boring bluegrass music. One or like Appalachian Music one is that I just had a general curiosity to I wanted to to play music in an academic setting in some way. But I didn't really want to go down the classical music path because at that point in time I was hell bent on learning continuing to learn to play by ear and so like even though I took a classical guitar class at high school I just. I didn't want to confide in WANNA conform. You know I raise my fist or whatever but at the time I'm Tori view right yeah so I was like. I don't WanNa do that so I took a group Bluegrass Guitar Class with a Jack Title. Who is the founder of the bluegrass time? Catch Music Studies Program and So I started out doing that. started learning how to play like country country style strumming which is also prevalent in old time music bluegrass music and then The Rural Travis style picking which is sort of like A? It's like a variant of Piedmont Style Blues Picking So I started learning that and then I started getting to the history because what I noticed is that in that space pace that I sort of there were quite a few instructors that were open and welcome that I knew the history of the music but it was really like some other flight. It was other students and other situations where it seemed like i. They wasn't necessarily. I got the sense that like some people felt like I shouldn't be there and so I was like do I really WanNa pursue music bat in. Oh I'M GONNA be surrounded by people that sort of don't think I belong But quite clearly when I took the American class and I started meeting more and more students I started to realize that. Like there's there is a place for me here and there's always gonna be people that don't get it but I figured out there was a place for me very quickly. So when it's that course is so he's talked about. You know how in fact it's very foundation like old time music in American roots music which later later culminated into many other genres of music and you can hear it in. All the different genres of American music was very much something that it was. It's a hybrid. It's a culture ultra hybrid of music's so that was really compelling and then my instructor Roy Andreotti who Kinda sought me out and wanted really. They wanted me to play in the old time. ultime band and then The Carolina chocolate drops all of that like happened at once where I learned what about the Carolina Heard what they were doing. And I'm like okay like there's a place for me here even if not everybody gets it but then so path forward now now like now more than ever. More and more people are getting knowledge of the history now Americana Music Awards the American Association. They're actively like recognizing you know more and more people of Color and LGBT people like that starting to to grow a bit so now it's now it's starting to come out more and more and then not to mention of the project that I've as as part of our native daughters waters that playing playing a significant role Essentially there were so many types of people so many different genders of people sexual sexual orientations and races of people that made American music possible and when we have a history VAT that has a tendency to kind of erase or overlook other people's contributions I mean that's being overlooked essentially means that you have a that's like the sign of a Fragmented Society when people are deliberately being overlooked for their contributions You know when the commercials music injury started hip black hillbilly bands. They couldn't make money recording a hillbilly band because record executives -secutive in their mind were convinced that only white people would listen to stream and using and it's like you clearly so the people that started the industry didn't have any real knowledge of music. They they just wanted to make money and so they had no real knowledge so that kind of inadvertently is why there are so many different genres now. Because you know these distinctions will only one type of person who's GonNa listen to this music and so people have kind of learned to compartmentalize music and their consumption. Ed and like you know how many you know the idea of a guilty pleasure like what's your guilty pleasure music and it's like we shouldn't have guilty pleasure pleasures we should be able to enjoy in. Shouldn't be scrutinized for what we listen to you now so if anything playing on the traditional music program just helped me realize that anybody's musical expression should be celebrated and should be recognized. Not only just because the person's moved by they should be able to do it but also recognizing the contributions of the music as as it really happened you know so. Aw Yeah kind of rental tainted again but okay I enjoy it Can you talk about the impact of Rhiannon. Giddens you've mentioned a couple times. You guys are in our native daughters which is a project. She put together And she was in the Carolina chocolate drops. Can you talk about the impact of Rhiannon Giddens on you before the project and and now awhile while I mean they said like the chocolate drops like I had all the records. I went to see them like at least five times over over over that the period that they were Together I I really appreciated her. The commitment to uplifting unheard voices with her song choices her knowledge of of the history of the songs wrongs and wanting to continue to champion bring about bringing more attention to the lesser known aspect of the history of folk music and then doing in such a such an electric like funky engaging way I mean the way that they played the the rhythmically what they had going when they played When they played songs fiddle tunes like nobody was doing it quietly the way like the way that they were doing it and so compelling and engaging I mean I never left us every show ever went to? There's like standing ovations. Sometimes there'd be standing ovations in the middle of this like people would stand up and clap. I remember show at the paramount theatre. I mean my dad went i. I guess this is back in twenty twenty eleven and they played at the paramount theatre in Bristol. Tennessee on the Tennessee side State Street and I think I think there were like five standing ovations before the end of the set. I mean this this amazing you know so To be asked to be part of of a project that continues on that legacy of of looking at things that aren't being talked about that need to be talked about in o n disarming way such as via music to be asked to be part of that after witnessing someone else that same person doing that in another capacity to be part of that tell storytelling it was really really was really was a big deal for me and really was compelling an when I wanted to do you this like all the stuff that's happened afterwards like The nominations from the Marikana fast nominations from Americana UK the Grammy Nomination the the top twenty and top ten lists and no depression and rolling stone and You know MS magazine and like all these different things like none of us were taken about that you know and so the fact that it's it's gotten as much press as much attention as this has let us know. The lake people are people are ready to hear to hear these things and and it just really just really meant a lot but just on my own like this was something that was just really important to me regardless of how far it got like. I'm so glad I was able to do it. And all this other stuff is just bonus. I mean when we started this project it was like a collaborative thing You know and then by the end of this year. It's like well we're a band now so I guess we need to you know. What are we going to do at that so so we're we're we're we've we've been keeping in touch talking and And hopefully we can find some time to To get back together again but nothing really hard set at this point. It's all just we've just been keeping in touch and we'd love to do some more and if you are. Schedules are so all over the place that You know hurting the cats is always the challenge but but we are you know we were so grateful for the reception and like I said like being part of being able to work with someone that I've looked up to is like a new Nikon in folk music. Essentially Is is has been really special and it's been awesome to be able to work with her so I don't know her personally but it's also nice that she seems really relatable bill just like from like some tweets. I've seen go out there. Like she's very funny gift goofy and yes like she. She's basically like she's God awed funny in normal and Nice. Oh Yeah I mean she's just I mean it's just like anybody else it's like when you first meet someone that you've seen as is this as the person like Rian get into like the bright lights and the big font you know and then you and then actually metering it to know her and she's just I mean it's it's just like anything else she's like a she's just a down to earth person that's really passionate about what she's about what she's doing and I think that's really really cool. I did want to talk about about your your song black myself which. I hope you win that grammy. It's like such a great song. Thank you Personal Song that addresses interracial discrimination discrimination. which the way that that you write about it? It's like I can't even begin to to like say how woodlake informative. It is just like read through the lyrics like the line. I don't pass the test of the paper bag. which had never you heard of before? Yeah Yeah there were. There were Brown societies and part part of being part of the browns society usually was well to do mixed and or light skin blacks that wanted to continue to stay as light as humanly possible in order to be treated treated better To look and be as eurocentric as humanly possible and so in turn and that was a even though obviously these people they dress very well there had their they had their parties in there. Whatever but this was a very you know? Needless to it was very unhealthy coping mechanism. Because in turn you then look at someone else. That's also black but happens darker than you. Oh and you essentially take on the role or at your try. It's it's basically trying to join the role of the oppressor and order to be seen favorably. which is it's unhealthy coping mechanism as far as I can tell in so you know what the song really wanted to try to encapsulate? What this project stands for I didn't I wasn't thinking like I'm going to write an anthem and it's going to be you know that's not really what I was thinking when I started in writing it. The Ataman Shenoy mentioned in the liner notes but But you know the term black myself. Life came from a line from sit him pills version of John Henry. which was I don't want no red black women and black myself and that so the term like black myself self back myself kept just kind of going through my head and then I just sat down and I'm like you know this? There's there's something here like it was all of the things But I've experienced personally and also what we'd been what I've been reading about. You know before this project you know I took my very I African American political history class was like a special Elective class in college. Where I was just like I just learned so much in that and also my dad was born in nineteen forty seven so then I also have personally notes of his experience growing up You know in the in the segregated south and the things that he had to kind of Enduring go through and his parents had endured and go through and the rest of his his brothers and sisters so that and you know what I learned in my history classes unwanted started reading on my own You Know Ralph Ellison's invisible man that line where I say you look in my eyes but you don't see me comes from from that book because his whole the whole book is about him being invisible because because he's black not being fully seen for who he was also Just so many things that I've read and listen to felt in my life just kind of came out in that one song I've never properly put any of those feelings to song or written about or really I guess written about them in a he's away and so it was almost. It's like this project itself was the real sort of like Kind of the. I mean it was the progenitor of the thoughts coming out onto the paper. You know so so even though yes I did I did pen the song I don't know I would have. I don't know when or how I would have pinned. It had it not been being inspired by this project. So so Iowa I You know I I'm. I'm so happy that I like again. I'm I'm so grateful to be part of that project because it it just. It just changed my life in so many ways it was for all of us. It was a very Just emotionally cleansing spiritually cleansing. Whatever you WANNA put it like it was just It was really a great thing for all of us to be able to to do together and finally I want to talk about your amazing sentence and since dial Of course yeah. It's like I think the first thing that I notice about us that you dress differently than other traditional folk musicians you know you stand out amongst your peers when it comes to your clothing like in a good way Eh. Do you recognize that. And then how do you use your clothing to express yourself well. I my whole uh-huh clothing and fashion journey has been It's been ever-evolving in it's been it's ever been a Sort of a an exploration of of self in a way. I've always looked at clothing as being being one way to express yourself And also as a way to be artistic and put something together that creates like a cohesive saying and There is a couple of things one one thing I had to kind of overcome was. How can I dress in a way way I feel comfortable in? But isn't why focused on like hyper femininity or like wearing hiring or wearing dresses and skirts and like dressing that way. Because I remember when I first started playing in bands at issue it was kind of a thing where sure you know the the ladies war you know lady ladies always have an women are ended up having more leeway I mean you obviously can wear pants. That's you now. Wasn't that antiquated. But you could wear pants or the men needed to wear ties and suit to the women could wear dresses but of course they could wear pants or whatever and so I went through this stage where I was like. Okay now I have to dress up you know and so I bought dresses. I did that whole thing and like I ended up looking into I found Mike. These sort of like you know Like masculine esculent of center and lake serving Androgynous. Queer like fashion blogs where I was seeing like women that were are able to like fine clothes. Where ways away where it's it's menswear but it's they found ways to be able to wear menswear? That looks good on them that you know because sometimes with men's where I mean it's a certain way you know and so I started following those kind of bugs and I'm like that's what I like and then so I started like going through this whole kind of kind of fashion evolution in so since then You know I've been enable to cultivate a style that I feel good and powerful when I'm on stage and innocent away where I've always loved menswear and men's clothes does But then also you know it's finding the right fit and sometimes you know I still go to women's department to get stuff too but it's Kinda like realizing at the end of the day like I could still present dress a certain way but like find a way for it to either fit my body or you know to you know just once. I learned those tools to figure all that out it made putting together outfits a lot more fun and I would say one of my big big style influences which I realize now has been my dad He he was a huge style influence to wear like like Like Western boots and like flare jeans and he would get like you know custom suits and he would like he like you know. He followed all of the color wheel. Mike would match and color coordinate and I went through a phase where I was wearing a lot of black and a lot of neutrals and here. Lately I've been like incorporating more like muted colors and isn't that kind of thing so I look at style and closes like this ever evolving kind of palate where you can put together just all kinds of different things to express breasts like how you're feeling or what you're what you're doing and Yeah yeah cool all right we do this silly thing on this. podcasts called the lightning round where I just ask you like fun little questions about yourself. It's like when you are when you lost your password and you're trying trying to get your password back in and ask you all these security questions except I'm not going to use them to try to find your password. Yeah Okay Yeah. That's like the type of question you know like We'll I you've already answered the first question The first song you learn on the tar so like those kind of course Oh cool okay all all right. You're ready. Yes okay here. We go the lightning round. Sorry Freak jail. That's making you think that I was GonNa take your password all right I do like lakes or beaches beaches. What's Your Karaoke Song to the moon bag by savage garden? And it's in my key to like worry about my key. Dogs cats are something else. Cats what is your coffee order A cortott with OAT milkin little bit of cinnamon on top favorite. US City. This isn't a trick question. Is it If I have to save one I'll say Denver vets. They won first album about with your own money make. CD's that I used to burn. We talked about earlier on my gosh. I don't even remember. Do you remember your first concert. Well I remember my first concert of Obama I specifically wanted to see and that was uh in sync when I was thirteen but I will say that it was awful because it was like like I don't know five five thousand screaming thirteen year old girls and like you could barely hear them so I don't know I mean that's my first one but yeah through. Yeah thanks gotten better since then but yeah dream collaboration. Yeah I'm like terror like lightning round like to hear this like you know I've always thought it'd be cool to have some have something produced by Jack White because I love the way that he produces this is like Americana folk records so that would be cool to do something with him at some point future. Caitlyn Gary One more. What what is the most beautiful place you've ever visited Wales all right? That's it the lightning around all right. Thank you thank you for the slowest. Ever sorry the molasses around a well thank you. Thanks for being on the PODCAST. Appreciate Him. Assists Hey I thank you fram. How out of fun? It's pleasure. The basic folk is produced by Adam Corey with assistance from Laura McCarthy Lindsey Myers. Is Our business manager. Alex Stanton Canton of the excellent band. Townspeople does our music. I'm Cindy House and I want you to buy a basic folk beanie there on the website Cindy House Dot net you can also sign sign up for our email list and also you can get this podcast anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Rate and subscribe and all that good would stuff and I will talk to you next week. Okay Bye

Tori Amos Amos Chattanooga Grad school AMETHYST KIA Johnson city Rian Giddens basketball instructor Lake placid Carolina Johnson City Tennessee Boston New Orleans paramount theatre Cindy House Kazaa Alan Lomax Tennessee BLUEGRASS East Tennessee
Wednesday with Walton  December 9, 2020

Scoops with Danny Mac

22:34 min | 2 months ago

Wednesday with Walton December 9, 2020

"Welcome in to my podcast with brian. Walden we do this. Every wednesday on scoops with danny mac dot com. And don't forget. We have added my good friend burning. Nickless formerly of the post-dispatch. He is writing daily columns. And all you have to do is go to the website. Scoops who danny mac dot com put in your email and that'll be delivered to your inbox and if you wanna read his daily columns which have started already. Just go to the website scoops. Danny mac dot com on the website right now. There is a visit with cardinal. Tommy edmund with chris rabi so check that out his well. We have also added martin. Kilcoyne and charley marlowe of fox to. They've got great conversations. Included in there is former car. don't john rodriguez. So that's up on the site and check it out at scoops. Danny mac dot com in just a moment of with brian. Walden the doctors a blue tail medical group or some of the nation's top experts in the fields of sports medicine and stem cell regenerative therapies. And when people hear about sports medicine they think disabled list. They think they're going to be out for a long time because they're going to have to have surgery. Will doctors as crane and wolf are experts in stem cell. Regenerative technology doctors from all over. The country are coming to saint louis to chesterfield valley to learn how they are doing it. We're talking about your body's stem cells redirected to concentrate all of their power into the joints. That cause you pain so recovery. Times are very very short and you're back on the field. You're backout maybe taking your walks doing whatever it is that makes you healthy again schedule and appointment. Avoid the surgery do yourself a favor. Six three six seven seven eight twenty nine hundred again. The number six three six seven seven eight twenty nine hundred visit them at blue tail medical group dot com as we do every wednesday a chance to visit with brian walden of the car donation dot com a lot to get to is the winter meetings are virtual but they're up and running. Brian walton of the cardinal nation dot com and brian. Good morning is always nice to hear your voice. Hopefully everybody's safe and healthy with you. Yes and it's always a pleasure to be on. There is news to talk about them. They'll be more in the next few days. Well let's start with With the minor leagues. Because this is right up your alley. This is kind of a big day for certain cities across the country. It's the selection for minor league teams to get to one twenty now. we know. There's been a reduction this was coming and major league. Baseball wants to be affiliated with certain teams certain cities. One twenty is the the cutoff mark. So explain exactly what's happening today at the winter meetings with minor league baseball. There's been a lot of negotiations behind the scenes in recent months. Really almost for the last year since word came out that a major league baseball wanted to cut the levels in the minor league system down by two and so the model the model that will come out the back side is a five teams and on the us level for them full season and then one complex team either in the gulf coast league the league so two levels were cut out of the minor league system and roughly forty teams so now the major league baseball had some criteria regarding the locations of the teams The minor league teams as well as their investment in their facilities to ensure that they that the club houses in the lighting. Everything is is up to current standards. So all these negotiations were going on behind the scenes to decide which one hundred twenty cities would keep minor league teams in which ones would lose him in the case of the cardinals. We already pretty much know what's going to be announced Barring some sort of surprise and that is state college in johnson city Have dropped then dropped. Anelle move into college wooden bat leagues and the cardinals. Four levels postseason levels will remain although in a different order so memphis aaa springfield aa but then the class eight teams are rumored to be switching peoria in the midwest league would become a high level and palm beach and the florida state league would become a class a. level and the reason for that is the classic being the lowest level it would be much easier for organizations like the cardinals to move players from there to back and forth with the next lower levels down which is the gulf coast league so both would be resident in jupiter when you when you talk about state college in johnson city in a wood. Bat league What does that do in terms in your opinion for some of these places with attendance and interest level in those towns. Is it going to hurt it. Will it elevate. What do you think's going to happen. It's gonna drop definitely and one of the things that i did earlier this year I went back and did a case study on springfield illinois springfield illinois was once the cardinals top minor league team triple a affiliate in the early nineteen eighty s and i went through progression as they went from aaa to single-a to Independently to college bat league where they are today in looked at the attendance. The fan interest value of the franchise investment of facilities. It's just an unfortunate thing. You know it's not that it's not that state college. Johnson said he won't be able to see baseball but it won't be the same same kind of baseball in. There won't be the same level of interest in those franchises. Don't have the same level of value. So in the case of released one franchise the staten island yankees. They've already gone to court because they were dropped. They were one of the teams. That didn't make the one hundred twenty cut and they they are taking a tremendous financial losses a result and are going to court to fight it. So you know there's going to be some losers in this case for sure when you have the winter meetings you have the rule five draft. That's coming up this week as well. Maybe explain how the rule five draft works and then how it pertains to the cardinals upcoming here in the next twenty. Four forty eight hours. Five is really designed as a way to allow players to move from organizations. That are very rich in talent to organizations that maybe have a little less talent And the the qualification for real five depends on the number of play after players in the minor leagues. Like six years he can become real five eligible if the team is team did not yet put him on the forty man roster and so the way to protect players from the data said is moving onto forty minutes. So that's what they did with on. He'll run down and yvonne herrera those types so they're not eligible but there's a niche tier players down back. There was a ruin the forty man roster so other teams could pay a minimal fee. Well it means two thousand dollars but they could get half of a backup if they return player so teams can pick these players enroll five draft for hundred thousand dollars but they're required to stay on the new team's roster for the entire upcoming season or a they can be put back on waivers or be returned to their original organization so you know they're it's not completely without expense but the view is That this year. You know given the financial straights that baseball is in teams will be looking for bargains. And potentially there could be a number of pitchers especially changing homes in the rule. Five grand then there's also a minor league as the rule five draft which are sort of the next level of players down and those players don't have to be returned to their prioritization. I think it's like twenty four twenty five thousand dollars each for those players so they'll be some movement of typically lesser names in the minor league phase rule five draft but once in a while. Jim even comes out of there. That's how the cardinals guy. John back about five years ago in the minor leagues as a rule. Five so the cardinals and all the organizations would be out looking for some you know. lesser known talent in the rule five draft which will be held on thursday tomorrow tomorrow and you mentioned jambi is so the non tender deadline came and went and the cardinals non tender john grabby. We and i talked about this. This could happen. This is a possibility Now that it has. What's your reaction to seeing breviary. Gone well i think the decision to jamboree as well as as well as first baseman outfielder. Rondell rebelo go was driven more by the value of their forty man roster spots then maybe their salary would make you know eight hundred thousand at most in arbitration. So they have. Money wouldn't have killed the cardinals but the roster was at thirty nine players. Now it's at thirty seven and that enables the cardinals potentially take one player in the rule. Five draft which go to thirty eight and then still have two spots left assign potentially resign molina in wainwright and that would put him back at forty. So it's part of the housekeeping. It's needed over the course of the of the year to make sure that there's enough room to hold all the players that you want to keep there. Are you know still a wait. And see approach at this point with Molina and with wayne but one of the kids at is coming up. As catcher in the cardinal system is harare and i know you're following the guys in the cardinal system that are playing winter ball he's one of them so How is he faring. And how are some of others that are playing winter ball. How are they fairing this far. And we have reports every week on the hitters in winter ball and your weekend the pictures because they don't pitches off so And some big names of now started to play winter ball leagues of even started. Puerto rico is still is going to start in just a few days. But they're playing in the dominican applying events thing in mexico and players. Like on ron john hennessy. Cabrera the left-hander pitching very well and early action. Is you said. The catcher yvonne herrera's also a just started to play so it's still early. But you know it's good to see these youngsters who really didn't get a year of playing twenty twenty Get some get some winter ball work in. I wanna ask you about. And i love reading your top. Prospect countdown It's fun it's fifty days fifty nights fifty prospects of the saint louis cardinals and i'm gonna start with the The position players side. Because there's a couple of guys that have caught my attention That i'm i think could play a role and who knows how big that role will be in twenty twenty one and one of them was at mondo sosa. I was a little surprised brian. We didn't see him more This last year and he can play all over. The infield probably could play the outfield. If you wanted him but last year and winner ball he started to show signs of some power. He can flat out picket defensively. This guy's a really good defensive player. You had him listed at number twenty one. What do you think. The outlook right now is for sosa. Going forward in in twenty twenty one top to get information from the alternate camp but what we know about it. Mendosa is that he was one of the players who had made the team out of summer camp but was struck down by corolla virus. And you know. Some guy's bounced back more easily. We saw molina combat very fairly quickly for example. But we saw other guys like laying. Thomas where you could see. they just. They weren't able to play at the level in the past and that must have been the case with so says well because the cardinals had a need in the infield multiple times. But what we saw in what was surprising to me was it max. Sch rock was a guy that continued to get the call to come up the saint. Louis and yeah. He's a left handed hitter but he's not the player that sosa was in effect in ended up being put on the waiver. Wire after the season. And so you know i think the reason. That's so sad. I have to assume that the reason that we didn't see so set in saint louis. This summer was because he wasn't one hundred percent after getting colon but he's in a very good situation for him right now because not only did mack truck move on but of course you also lost to infielders in colton long and brad miller so the cardinals need infield help and sosa is clearly the next guy in line to step up. He also has no minor league options remaining. So that means that either. He has to stick with saint louis in twenty twenty one or be potentially exposed waivers that they can't just send him to the minor leagues. Like they get you know in the past so so so. This is going to be a really huge spring. Had mendosa associate and all indications are if he's healthy and ready to go you know he should again beyond the cardinals roster on opening day in my opinion and the same can be said currently constructed with Your number seventeen at prospect there with justin williams. Because he too is out of minor league options so this is a big off season and spring training. Potentially for him as well. Yeah and you know it's unfortunate. I mean a lot of things are unfortunate about twenty twenty one of the things that was unfortunate as the cardinals were unable to really sort out their outfield right. We still don't know for sure yet. You know o'neill had a great season with the glove but we didn't see the power that we hope for. You know bater had a good year but was added mirage. Fowler got hurt. You know thomas was you know basically unusable and what that meant was in you know combined with the fact the only played fifty eight games just williams never got a chance to come up to saint louis and play. He's kind of in the second tier of those out dealers and so what happened was williams didn't get called up until the final two weeks of the regular season. You know he any think you only got like six plate appearances in you know didn't do much with it but you can't really fault him for that and again as you mentioned williams like sosa is another guy who's out at minor league options and so you know it's not. It's clear that he will make the team. Especially if the cardinals bringing another outfielder from the outside without your trading any others we also don't know how big the roster is going to be in camp in the twenty twenty one season will be twenty six will be twenty eight. We'll be thirty initially in all those factors. Come into play. But i think williams roster spot is much more tenuous than sources just because of the the difference in their positions at associated with artists. Have a clear need and williams is still trying to find his way through the hierarchy of of the thomases and o'neill's and all to get regular work. Now there's a couple outfielders do have options so that would kinda maybe through roster construction currently the way that it's developed right now kind of give him. I don't wanna say the inside track but at least through the numbers and the business side of it. That's that's gonna help them. Austin deny believes still as options. And maybe thomas does as well as at correct. That's right so let's say they all come to camp and they play really. Well then williams would probably get the edge for the for the roster reason we mentioned because thomas and dean could go back and forth between the minor leagues. If necessary so again you know another spring area of competition where these by the way you know. Rebel is gone now so that also creates a little bit more space. But still you know. These guys are going to be guys. Come into camp when we. I'm talking about williams thomas and dean who are going to have to scrap for every at bat and you know can't waste a single opportunity because you still. The cardinals are gonna wanna play. Only they're gonna wanna play baiter so you know. Those outfield at bats are going to be extremely important in the spring. There's top prospects. Brian walton my guest of the car. Donation dot com on the pitching side. I remember hearing a lot and then seeing spring training griffin roberts. You have him at number. Twenty where is he is one of those young pitchers that maybe could breakthrough like we've seen with others that the cardinals have had and again. They've got young pitching coming. He might be one of them. But where's griffin roberts. In terms of being close to the big league club well griffin. roberts is an interesting case. He was a taken forty third overall in twenty eight eighteen. So you know quite quite a pedigree from wake forest. His first full season was was damaged by the fact that he had a drug suspension. But he's a guy that in college through the midnight been mid-nineties has a good changeup and Also really started at high palm beach and that was a pretty you know that's a pretty difficult level performance and he did not pitch well at a lot of trouble throwing strikes but went down to the arizona. Fall league after the twenty nineteen season and pittsburgh very well now. A little bit concerned was that his veracity was down and You know he stopped before the league. The season was over but He roberts was in instructional camp. And as far as i could tell he look normal but he was kind of on the cusp of the guys because remember the only guys that could go to alternate camp would be the alternate camp last year. We're the ones that could fit in the sixty nine player pool and didn't really have the experience where he was going to be. Ready to help saint louis but yet the cardinals wanted a prioritize prospects like Like thomson in liberty for in. So there wasn't room for roberts to be on that gone that alternate camps squad. Which means he didn't really get the action this last year But the point is with his pedigree. Roberts there's no reasonably robert shouldn't get a chance to compete for a starting job at double a The other question will be can. He continued to develop throw more strikes. Or willie end up being a reliever and that's to be determined. Yeah i'm excited about thompson. Liberty cody whitley griffin. Roberts that that to me. Brian overall as we evaluate. Where the cardinals aren't you can say. Maybe they're in a little transition period with some of the the guys that have at the big league club. Some of the money that comes off the books at at the end of this upcoming season. But still you knew. Look at where the cardinals are there. It's pitching and they're still the strength with this team right now and this organization. I think you would agree. Is they're pitching major league club and the miners no doubt about it. And in addition to the guys you mentioned here's three other pitchers who are in the top in the top twenty that we've in our rankings. That are still rolling out right now who. You didn't even mention pitchers junior fernandez. I'm talking about seth elhage. Antoni locie again was drafted in twenty nineteen. We didn't get a chance to lot to see him but the cardinals has some tremendous talent. That's going to be pushing to the upper levels of the minor league system and get normal year. You'd think well maybe some of those guys are candidates but there are so many free agents now in the market that if the cardinals wanted to go to bat they could probably pick up a guy having to give away some of this pitching riches that they have which you know. Twenty twenty one twenty twenty. They're going to need that depth. No doubt A wrap it up with this a couple more things. John mosaic lock. President of baseball operations will meet with the media via zoom today. Virtually this afternoon. What are of the things you think that he'll address with the cardinals. I mean obviously and the media. It'll be wainwright molina. But what are some of the other things you think will be addressed by john today. Well i can tell you what i'm planning to ask. I want things i want to talk to him about. Is you know the assumptions. That are being made about the budget for the twenty twenty one season. I mean we know that the virus the a vaccine for the virus is gonna roll out probably slowly into the spring. We'll certainly won't be available in everyone's in everyone's body by opening day So the question is going to be playing time to the cardinals make the necessary decisions about their budget so that they can plan accordingly for the year because normal schedule spring training camps can in in february. So we're you know in less than two months two and a half months from now. So you know i get that. The situation is fluid but i think the situation is fluid well into next year and at some point in time you know i think they need to make commitments on How much you're gonna spend another area that i you know. They're getting a lot of attention right. Now it's a designated hitter and you know. I'm curious if he thought that the designated hitter was ever gonna be resolved quickly knowing that has to be collectively bargain with a union and there are so many other Open issues that are that are outstanding. Right now yeah. And i think some teams are kinda like you know. We'll deal with it if we have to deal with. Another teams are are saying. Yeah we really wanna know. And i think there are players are saying. Please bring the d. h. Because i want my marketplace too. Big i need. I need the other half of the league to bid on my services. It's really important for the player especially marcelo soon. Nelson cruz some of the others. That are out there. Ideally for the players and the teams. They would make a quick decision. But we've discussed in the past these decisions don't get made in a piecemeal basis and so you know there's so many other things that have to be negotiated as well regarding the season in terms of how much will players be paid. If they can't play all the games in full stadiums what will roster sizes be were expanded playoffs be etcetera etcetera etcetera. And they're going to have to. They're probably gonna end up having to resolve all those issues in a big package so nelson cruz. You know they're just going gonna have to get by but the reality is dan. I think pretty much everybody agrees when all the smoke is is away and the decisions made for twenty twenty one. That doesn't eight here is going to be there. It's gonna get negotiated so some teams like the braves did a year ago may need to gable and sign of marcelo soon before they know for sure being paid off handsomely for atlanta. So you know. I i get the concern about the designated hitter but somehow baseball got through it last year without making the decision until june. I think it'll happen again this year. Two and finally what are you working adult Working on at the carnation dot com. Well as i mentioned a we we have our regular reports on the cardinals players in winter ball including some scouting reports on them from got some guys who got some is on the telecast of those games that are going on in the dominican we continue down our top fifty prospects list for now number fifteen and so one of those is up every day and there's detailed information on each of these guys. It's not just a list of names but we skied not only their tools That the players have but then also an in depth analysis of what their season was like last year in what they're twenty twenty one season looks like and let their career. Potential might be so a wealth of information. Of course we'll be. I'll be on the call with most will summarize what he has to say. We'll be over the rule five draft tomorrow as well awesome. stop brian. Thanks so much as always catch up next week next wednesday and hopefully some of the answers to these questions will be answered by next week but as always thanks to advise everybody to head to the carnation dot com. Talk you next week so.

cardinals Danny mac baseball saint louis yvonne herrera Brian walton brian gulf coast league sosa springfield Nickless Tommy edmund chris rabi Kilcoyne charley marlowe john rodriguez williams chesterfield valley brian walden johnson city
Brian Shaffer: Revisited /// Part 2 /// 291

True Crime Garage

1:15:04 hr | 2 years ago

Brian Shaffer: Revisited /// Part 2 /// 291

"Welcome to true crime garage, wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick. And with me as always is a man that just told me if there were more food and fewer people this would be the perfect party. He is the captain get your hands on my buffalo. Chip dip. It's good to be seen. And it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for tone. Your cousin? Today. We are drinking seventh son American strong ale garage grade, four in three quarter bottlecaps out of five American strong ale is a precise blend of seven hops. The go into the dry hopped process the outcome. I loved the hint of grapefruit the stone fruit, hop, aroma and the rich red malt backbone and this week's beer was brought to us by these good friends of the show right here. First cheers to Kaley and Parma, Ohio. It big cheers, Catherine in Weatherford, Texas. And how about a we like your jib to Allie in Calgary Alberta Canada? And the big shout outs. 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So one of the theories that we discuss when we covered the case back in two thousand and sixteen was the possibility that somehow Brian did leave the bar without being seen without his friend seeing him decides to walk home now mind, you this could be three AM on a weekend and this area. It's while it's not a bad area. It's certainly better today than it was back, then I wouldn't label it like a crime ridden trouble area. However, it's you know, there are a lot of smart people that say nothing good happens after two AM. And so one of the theories that we kicked around when we discuss this was the possibility of and this is a pretty simple theory that he leaves the bar in during the course of that six blocks walking home somebody he he's either involved in some type of altercation with someone or. Him walking alone. And I wanna point something out here. I'm I'm not an expert at many things, but I am an expert at drinking, and I do believe from the footage that I saw of him outside of the ugly tuna that night. I believe him to be quite intoxicated and therefore him being by himself walking alone in the dark, visibly intoxicated. He's an easy target for someone if you just want to rob somebody real quick. And so one thought and theory that we kicked around was that could this have been a robbery that went bad or a fight that went wrong somehow he's killed or snatched up in pulled into a vehicle. The likely scenario of disposing of the body might be one of the many dumpsters that are throughout that entire area. So we kick that around for a little bit. When we discuss this case in two thousand sixteen it seems pretty plausible. But again, we have the issue of him getting out of the bar. Yeah. Without knowing where the surveillance camera frames are is far as the the the screen. You know, he would have had heels would have had to have accidentally not appeared in those survey 'Lance videos, but I do I do think the chance that he got jumped if he was able to get out of there and not picked up on surveillance. I think that's possible. Absolutely. So the scenario that you're presenting is that he's walked a bit of a distance away from the ugly tuna because we have to get away from any cameras that are on buildings to pick up any sort of activity involving a mugging or him being snatched up and pulled into a car. So yeah, I could see that happening. I could see where someone or some buddies would be driving and following him briefly before making a quick decision to pull. I'm in the car clearly drunk, and we're going to see what we can get off of them on. It's also interesting area too. Because it's it is a college areas college town. So then Danes get ramped up. I had a buddy that was walking home from a bar ins up getting jumped by four guys for no reason, they didn't like talk trash tomb. They just got out of the car and fight was on. And he lost all his front teeth. We also had a friend that I went to high school with that was leaving work crossing the street almost hit by a car. Just kind of says, hey, guys, what the hell you doing those guys turn back around and shot the guy to death and that was on eleventh avenue, which if you look at Google maps Levin avenue and pretty close. Yeah. And this is within a few years of that shooting. So there's those possibilities did something like that happen. And then they shoot the guy and put him. In a car and drive off and never be seen again. Because this is a lot of people that are in their early twenties. Not drinking experts going out to these bars. Drinking and then doing stupid shit afterwards. No gunshots are heard, and you know, I it wouldn't have the murder weapon. If that's what happened couldn't have been a knife. Either. There wasn't any blood on the street, certainly not in the bar or anything like that. While it's such a big area and so high it's so heavily populated that. I think even if there was blood on the street nobody would wanna throw up any red flags. I mean because there's hundreds of thousands of people on campus every week drinking and partying there's probably puke on every street, and there's probably puke and piss between. Yeah. Behind every way, but not blood possibly blood. I'm. Saying that I think what you're saying. Is that it could go unnoticed? Right. So what I'm saying potentially could go unnoticed the other thing too is if he's not doing a straight shot walking along the roads or sidewalks? If you're going to do a straight shot, you're cutting through some areas to get from that bar to his apartment, and I mean, it could be as simple as someone follows him into a dark dark area where he's alone in in in very much. So just wants his wallet. You know, here you see a preppy looking drunk guy walking in the middle of the night by himself. That's an easy target to me when I hate to bring up the psychic kids, but you know, psychic kids did a episode on the Schaefer case, and one of the kids were was picking up this vibe that Brian was being watched by somebody that was on the balcony of the bar. So if you're out on the balcony, you could see. Into the club. But like I said any corner the club you're at you'd be able to see everybody and was Brian. A little drunk confident and being the good time guy and flirted with girls, and was there some pissed off guy going man, this guy's talking to all these girls and where he talked to my girl, right or right? And then you go I got an issue with this guy, or the, you know, the guy that's too shy to talk to girls. And he sees this guy. He's angry with him because I do find. We're kind of talking earlier like I find the psychic conversations. Interesting. I don't hold a lot of weight to them. But in the conversation with those psychic kids, they claim that they felt that Brian was at the bar at one point left and came back, and we know that to be true. And that information wasn't. Out there to the public that that often. So the fact that they picked up on that. I thought was interesting I would have a much easier time. Swallowing the scenario that somebody saw him flirting with all the girls were flirting with his particular girlfriend this like mystery person, right? If there was a a body or some blood or something people, maybe I'm totally wrong about this. This this is even relatable to anyone who would have picked him up dragged him into a car to mug him. Like, I. Am I wrong and thinking that most people just wouldn't know how to dispose of a body so cleanly, you know, you're not wrong. I mean, so you're not talking about someone who's got the capability to spontaneously kill and also the wherewithal to cover it up. So so perfectly my original thought would have been that. If let's say a group of thugs ended up shooting him for some reason or killing him yet as a result of robbery having gone bad that that that quick easy disposal would be to somehow hoist them up into one of those dumpsters. The tricky thing with that is we do know the family was searching dumpsters in that area as early as Sunday night Sunday evening, and they did a grid search on the locally in filled, right? Which is something. I don't think we were totally aware of or or knew the details of when we covered it back in two thousand and sixteen but the the difficult thing with that is. You have to wonder could any of those dumpsters been emptied on Saturday or Sunday before the search was before they were actively searching for him one to there was as captain points out. There was that grid search at the landfill that that did occur. And I can't remember if it occurred Thursday or Friday after he went missing or if it was the following week, but it was relatively soon. While again, what's difficult about this too is it's it's a very it's a condensed too. But there's a lot of dumpsters. There's yes, there's a doctors around every corner. Yes, that's why that was kind of my go-to. But but the, but the thing is for if Brian let's say got out of the bar and walked fifteen minutes north. He there won't be enough. People to check all those dumpsters around that area during the search was there any result of do. We talk about like search dogs cadaver dogs, did they? The landfill. Yeah. Did they do any searches with dogs in the bar? They did I out side of the bar regarding the landfill. Search other than it being a grid. Search that was conducted by law enforcement with the city's help. I don't know much about other than that in that occurred relatively soon after he went missing, okay might be pretty tough for cadaver dogs so work in a dump location. Anyway. And there was video footage of the parking garage. Right. Okay. Because my head immediately went to while he he probably tried to walk back to Clint and meritless vehicle in the parking garage. And then maybe you had somebody pick him up in the parking garage. And and take off with him for some reason. But if there's no account video account of him entering the garage them. I guess that checks that off the was what bothers me. And maybe this is going to come off very argument. But to me, the cops are saying, we check this, and we check this footage. And we check the back exit footage to me. It's I didn't check the footage. So I don't know. It was how well it was checked. Yeah. That's very true. I mean, some somebody missed something somewhere because he's not in the building anymore. When I just don't understand why you can't say if you've looked at the footage from the garage footage. From the escalator the footage from the back hallway why not release it to the public other than what Tim was saying. Is that the other patrons of that night to protect them? But it's like who cares? You know? And and the footage is not like the clearest footage in the world anyways. Well, when you walk into a place that has video surveillance. You bought by a sign that says you're subject to being right to to being your likeness is being taped. I really think because the the main detective retired. I believe in January on this case. And there's a new detective on the case now. And I wish the first thing they did was to compile this footage in either put it on a website or to release it onto YouTube for people to analyze. I have a kind of a random question. I haven't seen anything about any drug use for Brian. And I don't want to attach a stigma because we know that can happen a missing person cases. But was he did he ever dabble in like some kind of upper or speed in order to study? I I did see somewhere that he stayed up all night at times studying, and I know it's kinda common. An Adderall was big back. Then. Yeah. Yeah. And and while pills in general during that time, we're we're pretty big. So was he taking out a role in instead of just taking it was he sniffing? It was he was the coke usage. I have not heard any rumors about this. I know he would through a period where he was a little more living the hippie lifestyle. And so by smoking pot, but I wanna put put. Pass somebody that is in school to be a doctor and and spending long nights studying and long shifts and and everything else he had going on yet to to use the upper I wanna put it past him. But I I don't know if there's any evidence of that in rumors of it as I just wanna point out that he was grieving still his mama died three weeks before. So that is definitely a period of time in a person's life where they're not really thinking, clearly probably not even really remembering too much of that time. So in that in that scenario, he's grieving he's got the pressures of school. He's gut the pressures of being financially in debt. He's got his maybe his girlfriend that he's feeling pressure to marry and in that moment, he's drank just enough to say fuck it. I'm done I'm walking out of here, and he chooses to walk away from his. Life at two in the morning without any indication and an Admiral way, and he's the look east man in the world. Yeah. That chose to leave a bar to leave his life. And by the way, there's no footage of him leaving the bar. I mean, unless he like beautifully orchestrated this elaborate scenario to pretend to be that intoxicated, analyzed all of the cameras in the neighborhood. So I knew lane ticket bought the plane ticket to Florida fool everybody that he was going to floor voicemail to his girlfriend yet. Right. So that's all playing into his hand. He he probably scouted out the area to say, I can't walk down that street or that street because of the security cameras, but I know that I can walk past the construction site because there's no security cameras. And then he yeah. It's into a boat on the little river in paddles away. I mean, it was so even him running away doesn't make any sense. Here's what's tough. About some of these cases. I mean, even look at like, the Mark ace. One of the things that you you go did he did Brian Schaefer, analyze all the stuff will one was he the most lucky guy that decided to go missing on his own accord ever or did he plan any of this? And it seems so far fetched. But then you come back to the idea of well, this guy was intelligent. I mean, he was clever. So is it possible? Yes. I think it's highly unlikely and same way with like the Mark ace, which she clever enough to do that possibly. It's just seem. So highly unlikely that you would decide to as your drinking and hitting on girls to be like, yeah. This life is too much going to go away and moved to a, you know, some community in and meditate all day long. Yeah. It seems very unlikely. And really the the surveillance video is the. Part that makes it seem the most unlikely to me because again, I he he would have had to have accidentally been not seen on those Valence videos. There's no way for him to have known what the frame was on all those cameras throughout that walk home or in the in that building, right? But I think again this contradicts the police, but I think it goes back to the security guards tell me how unbelievably easy it would be to leave the building and not be seen. And if you base everything off of what they're saying. Then he just left and went home. We don't if he let's say he got home. He didn't get jumped no robbery. He gets home. He wakes up the next day and says, yeah, now, I'm gonna go missing the difficult thing. There is we have no activity with ATM, and we have no movement of his car and nothing's ever been touched as far as his Bank account and credit card activity. Correct. Okay. So one. So that would mean that if he if he managed to get home in and he slept and woke up in the next morning. He said, well, this is going to be the day. He would have had to have planned for months before to get a new credit card probably under a different name. Because if he's at smart to disappear these going to know that he has to come up with a new identity, or he had all those pieces in place was there any search of computer? Did he ever have any searches on on things like this on how to fake your identity or? The police did take his computer. Yeah. At some point. I don't know what was learned from oil think there was ever report that I heard. That I'm aware of the, you know, being of anything of concern being on his computer. Yeah. I not heard that either. And we do know that the police had his computer, I believe they held it for quite some time and eventually released it to Brian's father. And I think the family still has even though his father's passed the family still has that computer. But it seems to me like if there was anything interesting or of interest to the police on their they may not have released it the thing though, too. That's weird in captain. You really hit on something in the sense of of one thing if he if he chose to walk away be if it were on purpose that it worked out this way or just on by half stance. It's kind of it's very theatrical departure one too it would make him the luckiest, man. To disappear not being picked up on camera. But if we could go the opposite direction and say he met with foul play somehow. Well, now, we have the luckiest killer luckiest criminals right luckiest criminal because now we don't have anything pointing police in their direction. Right. And we certainly don't have the public being pointed any direction because you you if you if you pull the public have them, we're going to question, the the building, and if he ever left the building begin with we had a really interesting conversation last night where we ranked weeded. Yeah. Couple interesting conversations. But we said, what's what's more likely? Would the cases that we have been looking at like Brandon Lawson Brian Schaefer, more Murray and brianna Maitland, which one of those has more of a criminal activity element to it or strikes you as having the highest percentage of foul play, which I think is a great great experiment because. If if you're if we're going to do this. Brianna Maitland's would stand out as so obviously related to foul play just due to wear. Her car was found in Howard car was found. But on the on the contrary, you could say that that might look like the the highest percentage of a runaway. And she's just staging mccarter. Look like, so I was just thinking about like how frustrating. This case is because it didn't happen in an area like Mora or Briana or Brennan Lawson those are isolated single person incidence almost in the middle of nowhere almost in the middle of nowhere. And this is in the middle of everywhere in front of. A crowded bar in the middle of a crowded bar and security cameras, and there were two police officers there right outside of the bar in the building but outside the bar or security people. Well, no, there were pleased actually police a whole security team that surrounds whole area. So here's a little piece of information that has not been released to the public that often this breaking news. So the situation where when he goes to eat with his father that day that that wasn't some hey the skit together for launch that was kinda to get together to see if we're going to be able to keep having a relationship. So that to me is a little strange, and then the fact that he was also -sposed to hang out with his brother that night. Now as brother does have an alibi. They went to the funny bone and with his girlfriend. People saw them there. And then afterwards they were supposed to meet up with Brian. And they never did. And then they said, okay. Well, we're going to go to bar. I believe it's in Pickering tin, and they have a bar there. They have a couple of drinks there. And some people see him there. So that's kind of their alibi. But we were talking a little bit earlier. There was money that was gonna come to Brian his father and his brother from his mother's death. Non a lot of money. But I still think that has to be put on the table, and that's part of the conversation that has never been. But he didn't get the money. Right. No. He never received the money because he went missing. But without Brian the other two remaining family members now receive a larger some because they're splitting splitting that some three ways to. We know how much the way that. I've heard it reported is that it would have been approximately between twenty to thirty thousand dollars to Brian would've received so carrying that a step further assuming that it was an even split, right? It we're talking about, you know, eighty two hundred thousand dollars that they would be splitting now who knows maybe the father was going to receive a larger portion that's not uncommon. But the the tricky thing with with this with the events of that day. Is you can really kind of look at them and under two different lights. So one the having steak dinner with your father, planning to have your brother meet up with you afterwards after he goes out to the funny bone with with his girlfriend or friends or whomever calling your girlfriend leaving very nice voicemail hanging out with one of your quote, unquote. Will you will use quotes there? Because depending on who you talk to the the relationship between Clint and Brian varies. But but under this scenario, though, under this scenario, you look at it two ways. Some people have suggested is that him making an effort to have a final goodbye with the ones that are still close to him. Right. And then there's other people that say well could the answer to why Brian is no longer with us be within that circle within that. Nah. Network. So you said that he went to dinner with his father, and in reynoldsburg, and that was them having sort of come to terms moment of in regards to their relationship. Did they have a rocky relationship was seems like they had a decent relationship. But why his mother was sick? I think it came out that his father was seeing somebody, and it's not clear if his mom knew about that. There's I've heard of several cases where somebody gets sick in they become terminal, and they actually pushed their spouse or significant other to find a companion. Yeah. Not the most unusual thing. So that's a possibility. But so the speculation is that this really upset Brian and the money that they were getting through the mother's death was actually awarded to on awarded but was granted to the remaining siblings. And and the father, right? Okay. So so. How much would it take for a family to plan to off? Well, I don't know that anybody saying that's the suspicion. I think it needs to be on the table or at least discussed. I mean, if you're investigating a case like this. You have to go every nook and cranny, so one thing that would stand out to me if we're like actually investigating it is his brother and girlfriend have alibis and they plan to meet him later on and they didn't meet him later on. That's that's correct. Right. Okay. So you could have a scenario where they've hired somebody to do something to them. And they knew that they weren't going to meet him later on. Take your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed you deserve. Gorgeous professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars. That's right, ladies, you can treat yourself for less than twenty five dollars. For decades. Women only had two options for colored in their hair outdated at home hair-color or the time and the expense of a salon many Madison Reed clients comment how their new hair-color has improved their lives. You're gonna look good. You're going to feel good. That's going to improve your life women. 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That's promo code garage at Madison dash, read dot com. Maslin read sweet you'll self. Yeah. And then I think other step in this equation that I just think should be discussed and put on the table. That gets often left out is. What two years later? The father dies in very mysterious way, incredibly tragic bazar accident involving a tree branch font coming ribbing being ripped off the tree in a windstorm, right and hitting him in killing him. And so then now what is left because the family is simple mother, father, two sons. So now, you have the moms died. The one missing than the father dies mysterious. And now, you're left with one son. And so he's he in turn an heritz everything. So may be the little bit of money that he's going to get from his mother is not that much, but you can bind the ho- the total that that's been a motive and a lot of cases. So thinking about Brian knowing that he was going to get something from his mother's death. Even further makes me think that he didn't run away Ryan might as Well, Matt as well, stay get some money that will give me a little relief as not life changing money, but it could be for him for someone that that old. You know, I can I can start paying back some of my student loans even twenty thirty thousand dollars that's pretty significant amount of money, especially for someone that young law. Those medical loans to will be forgiven because though, they can work in hospitals and certain areas where you know, parts of their loan are forgiven and if he plan. To run away. Why why wouldn't he wait for the money and then run away because he had money? Well, and what of I mean, what a very nice gesture, and what a very nice nod to the legacy of your mother to finish school, right? Yeah. We we. She wanted him to g you know, she was very proud of of Brian. But on the flip side of that there could be some relief. If he really didn't want to become a doctor or his mom his father wanted him to do it more than he did his mom passes away. Maybe that's a burden off of his shoulders as far as school goes, the very tricky thing, and we were talking about drugs or and substance. Let me stay on this one point row quick because. So like, you were saying to meet up with your father to meet up with your brother to meet up with the friend that you're haven't seen in a while is this a sign of reconnecting. To move your life forward after your mom passed away. Or is this like you said a sign of good bye. Does does have a feeling of it leaning towards one way or the other? Now, I don't I don't see that as being something of a sign of a good buy for someone. That's smart if he was going to run away, the successfully and not a trace just feels like he would want to make the day. He runs away be as average as any other day. Right. I think the same thing too in the speculation that he's trying to reconnect with his father. Some people say, well, he's trying to reconnect with his father before he leaves? But it's like, wouldn't it be that the MO wouldn't that be part of the motivation for you leaving in the first place? Right. Right. So to me, it's it's a makes it become a lot more that he goes missing on that day because it seems like he was trying to reconnect to me. And wouldn't it make it more difficult if you're visiting with all of the people that you care about and then you try to reconnect with your father who your the relationship is becoming sort of estranged. And then you're you're connecting with these people care about you you care about them. You're trying to get back in good graces with your father wouldn't that? Just almost make it impossible for you to leave. I mean, you're trying to make your life better. Yeah. Well, and I think that there's very good cause for people to believe that this possibly could be the final goodbye. And what what really sets the table. For one to believe that this is a perfect storm. Because what we have here is the known facts are we know he's leaving for vacation on Monday morning. What is the closest person to him doing his girlfriend visiting with her family before they leave to go on this spring break trip? What is Brian doing visiting with his father wants to hang out with his brother? His brother says that look we we may have drifted apart and our teenage years and early twenties. But, but we got closer as mom got more sick. We got even closer after she passed his words, are it was almost as if Brian was trying to get tighter with me to help me through this tragic event that occurred in our lives. So we have a situation where it may be what some perceive it to be. It may be a good bye. And some look at it as a final goodbye. I think it looks so much that way because it's a temporary good because he is. Planning to lease planning to leave for a week. And look I've I've been stressed out trying to get through school. I got I mean, it's not easy to be a doctor. What if he was? So I'm told what if he was planning on proposing to his girlfriend during that trip, and he wanted to make sure that things were good with him his family because there's going to be a wedding soon. And he wants to make sure that you know, we have a good a good wedding. And we have a good a good showing at the wedding with with the fam-, right? And one would argued than we have evidence of him hitting on these girls. But I would say look that could be more due to the alcohol. Yeah, let's say so 'cause there and there's also some guys. And you guys would know this mean sometimes when you're hanging out with guys that even are in relationships the start of the evening is fine. And then after a certain point after their fifth beer after the six beer, they're like, let's go fine girls. And you're like, you're married or you have a girlfriend like, whoa, whoa. How's this coming over you? Now, it's almost like they can handle their liquor. They're not experts like the Colonel some guys just like to flirt, I think though and not right. Right. And that you don't it could have been as simple as him giving them their number and just thinking is still got it. Yes. Our won't answer the phone when they called me. But I still got it. Have you guys ever heard the story of Christopher Knight the hermit in? Maine. No. So this man he was early twenties. I wanna say twenty or twenty one he just out of the blue one day thought. Thought I can't live in this world. This this type of world is not for me. So it's the middle of Maine, and he drives his car down down a back road, and drives it as far into the woods as he can before. He can't go any further. Right. And then he gets out walks into the woods and he lives there for twenty seven years. And he he builds his little area in between boulders was he stealing food from the neighboring house. That's how he was caught. He stealing food from from the cabins. And then there was a sort of like a recreation of a camp that would get these shipments of food rape before their season would start. So he knew how to break into that place. And that's how he was caught after twenty seven years his family provided for themselves like they lived sort of off the grid. There were very smart. They were very smart with agriculture and all of the people like, you know, it's the middle of Maine. So there is hardly any neighbors. But anybody who knew them knew they keep to themselves. Elves and they're nice enough. But we know that they're they want to be off the grid. When the when the press and law enforcement question them about Christopher about their son. They they said you'd never filed a missing person report. And they said, no, we just figured that. He just wandered off that he just didn't wanna you know, he just went away. Right. We didn't think that use like those any danger, and you know, and then you look at Brian. I keep thinking of Christopher Knight. And how no one really thought that. He would he didn't think that he would go do it. He didn't he he just got overwhelmed at that moment. And was like this world's not for me. And he just wandered into the woods. And that's where his world was. And he was much more comfortable in there. Is is that a possibility with Brian that he was just like, you know, it's not for me. And then he miraculously. Walks down away from the bar, not around any surveillance videos, and that just happens to be have something. Yeah. Yeah. He just lucked out right there. That's the conversation or the speculation. And it's a leap, and I know it's a leap, but here's this guy with the Pearl GM tattoo. Okay. Around this time, you would have known that they're working on the movie into the wild. Okay. Yeah. You have the book. It's about Alexander Supertramp that basically disappeared from his family and went to live in Alaska. And so the idea was in then Eddie Vedder was going to be doing the soundtrack for it. So there's a there was some speculation again. It's this huge leap that. You'd have to assume that he knew that Eddie was doing this. And then he got wrapped up into this book and this went okay, I'll just take off. And we we've had we have seen this happen. I mean, there was they made a movie about it. You know? So, but to me, that's a pretty big leap. But that guy was found, right? Yeah. He ate something poisonous. Yeah. And he was found by died. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of them are not found. Yes, they die in the wilderness and then animals get to their body. So in that circumstance. Did Brian hitchhike somewhere it didn't take guitar like he didn't take? Yes. When they when they went to his apartment. There was nothing that the family or law enforcement perceived to be missing from the apartment or from his car. Strangely enough, though, someone broke into that apartment was it weeks later four five weeks later, right? And the police said that by that time they had removed there were still items in the apartment at that time, but they had removed things of value or of interest to the investigation, and they've never caught the person or or know who it was. And so a lot of people speculate while that might have been Brian returning. The thing is police have were very quick to say one the locks were not changed. So if he still had his keys he wouldn't have had to break into his own apartment to they firmly believe that it was just a an opportunist someone that that this all on the news read in the newspaper that this guy is missing nobody knows where he is and decided to bust in and see if there was anything worth taking did they publicize his address? I don't know that they publicize. His address, but but the. They probably did would be my guess, I don't think they said the dress. But I believe they said king avenue. Probably six blocks away on king avenue. But here here's the thing though, too. Then you can lean on the idea of. Well course, if I if I'm going to go missing, but all-share I go back to my apartment and get a couple of things why one and I break in right because you don't want to show investigators that you still have your keys. I wonder if they they fingerprinted the door where it was broken into. And maybe that's why police think that Brian is still out there somewhere alive. Yes. So that's the weird. And that again, that's all speculation. But from people that have talked to, and I I don't wanna put words into nNcholas west mouth. He was guy investigating this case. But he has always kind of felt that law enforcement believes he's still that Brian Schaefer still alive yet does seem to to lead that way in my research is well that that police do feel that way. I do wanna point out something to I see that it can be easy for someone to go. Well, we're going to get this lump sum of money amongst these individuals, Brian disappears two and a half years later, the father dies, I can see how some people can say on the surface that looks a little strange and a little fishy. But I think we should point out. Where you could call the death of Randy Schaffer mysterious or not normal or whatever. Whatever words you want to use. We should point out the in that very same windstorm. There were five other people there were five other fatalities. So it's not like this is a very unique situation. No, I understand. I just think if you look at this case as a whole you have to put that on the table doesn't mean that you can't eliminate that. Eventually, I think it has to be on the table initially the other thing that this has not been talked about in the public size. Is let's look at the players of that night. So we have Bryan he eats with his father. Now, we got Brian in his father. He's supposed to meet up with his brother brother's girlfriend. So it's a player and the story you have his buddy Clint and Meredith they go to the bar with. Then of course, you have everybody in the bar, but we don't know them less just focus on the two girls that he talked to at the bar. So we have a total of seven players roughly and one of the things that they haven't been they haven't talked about and in the public. Is in Brian's program. There was other people from Brian's program at high state university that were in that bar that night. And we know that that the cops talked to Clint. And we know they talked to Meredith, and they we don't know what the answers that they gave. But we know whether or not cops believe them to be telling the truth or not, but you have a group of other students. He went to school with that were at the bar that night that he went missing. And they have never been talked about. And we're going on how many years so I'd really like to know who they were were they questioned where they cleared reading in an article that everyone who saw Bryan that night was given a lie detector test, except for Clint who didn't who who refused it. So that would be the two girls that he talked to and got the phone number. I would assume members of the band were given lie detector tests is that for real like everybody that I don't think the band was. So in regards to when they say everyone that that saw Bryan that night there prob- there, probably meaning. Everyone that had like a interaction interaction where lengthy interaction with him. The the what I was able to find was that the two ladies that he spoke with where can they did lie detector tests? I believe his father Randy and Meredith, but not Clint, but not well Clinton was asked his attorney. And he advised them not to he had already given. Rating he was cooperating, but he he had already got got an attorney here in soon. Well, and he yes. So the attorney advised him not to to do the light detector, which is perfectly fair because I don't know. It's not going to if they don't consider him a suspect at that point. It's not going to, you know, not make him less of a suspect. I guess right. But. And I wanna give credit to nNcholas west for really hidden in this home because he talked with the family members because he thought it was strange that here, you have a guy Clint that is cooperating with the police and showing up to searches and then all the sudden stops conversation with the family, and basically lawyers up and says, leave me alone. Both coming from the ankles. They were saying that during the search that Clinton was there after he's already talked to police officers that Randy Brian's father was loud an adamant and rude towards Clint, basically. His feeling was that Clinton knew more than he was saying. But he's been so vocal about it. In public forum that I think Clint probably went back to his parents and said that this is what happened and his parents probably said you need to lawyer up. Then I think that's not out of bounds. Right. No, not at all. And I don't know what I would do if I was in that circumstance in someone were to ask me to take a lie detector test because what if my heart's beating a little too fast nervous, and it's inconclusive. It doesn't matter. If it's inconclusive people people look at inconclusive almost as though look at you failed. But if you say, no, that's stigmas attached to. Yeah. But mind you, but you can never say that it failed. Right, right. But mind, you the he he did interviews with the please. Yes. Still to this day. You can submit questions to his lawyer. And and they would answer some of them. I guess well into clear something up. I may have said something that is not correct. So do you wanna point? I don't know. You know, if it's the the article or or or not, but we should mention it yet. So we're not sure this article says the two women Brian was seen talking to where identified in two thousand nine and claim that they had never been asked to take the test. We should throw that out there. Just so to be clear. Yeah. Possibility that either they were never asked to take a test. Or they're the test was conducted after the the, you know after that article is written, but really hard to believe that those two women did something to Brian right? But here's what we didn't have might be the reason for not asking them to submit to a lie detector test because you have video footage of them leaving and maybe you have people to to vouch for their whereabouts in their actions after leaving the bar the question that speaking of leaving the bore the the big question, I have is what were the intentions of? Clint Meredith and Brian after leaving the bar. I mean is it is simple as we were going to drop him off at his house. We drugs and orgies. We were all going to go back to clinch place. We were all going to meet up with some other people what what was the on the itinerary for after the ugly tuna. Whoa. Here's what we do. Now, we do know that Clint I believe was a TA, and he was watching one of his professors condos that night. So we have him and Meredith leaving the parking garage and then going to this condo complex where you'd have to enter in a code. But if you look at when they left the parking garage and would they enter the code, and you roughly figure out how fast there were driving and traffic and all that stuff. It makes sense like they didn't stop anywhere to get there. And then they spend the night at that condo woke up the next day and drove Meredith back to Brian's place to get a vehicle. But what? But back to lie detector. Yes. Clinton take lie detector. But Meredith did Meredith was with Clint the whole time. So. You. I mean, like if he just slip out into the bathroom, and and and kill him. And then put him in this pocket, and then leave and she just didn't see thin. I mean, I think the fact that she took a lie detector clears clan. Your love them, you know, what? And that could have been something that the lawyer told him don't like she she's already taking she's taking it. If you guys are in the clear, don't even don't even any. It can only hurt you. Let's go back to the site to. And I don't know. This is a lot of hearsay. Right. But the idea is that Clinton Meredith were at the teachers condo the next day. They go back to Brian's house. Now, their story is basically we just picked up the other vehicle, and we left when our separate ways the story for many years was that both of them went into Brian's apartment and were at Brian's apartment for about six hours. The next day. Yeah. Okay. Those are two way different stories while we we didn't go into apartment we just picked up the car, and we both went our separate ways. And they both met up. They met met each other backup that night so Clinton Meredith hung out again that night. But the way it's been told by Randy and some other people is no they actually went into Brian sa- -partment and there in his apartment for six hours, or so, and I think those are you know, like, I said completely different stories. And I think some of the problem, and I don't put like blame or anything. But I think some of the problem is like Randy didn't wanna mitt to the public that his son was drunk that night. We'd very intoxicated that night. And and I think he was looking to point the finger at a lot of people. I think he was also trying to create super yell fake narratives. Not. And a bad way. Just because he cared about a son and maybe also cared about their reputation as their family is it possible. And it's going to sound like a joke at first is it possible that Brian? Knowing that it was April Fool's day walked away and hid somewhere to play a joke thinking that he would just be gone for a little bit and got himself into a bad physical situation. Maybe he was ducking into something. And I'm gonna I'm gonna hide out and make it seem, you know, I'll pull this sort of prank on my friends, but and you know, sort of like at least a lamb being found in in the water tank. Well, no 'cause I've always wondered this to like. You know, he was just out of funeral for his mother comes up with idea of well who would go to my funeral. You know? So again, it's April Fool's, let me go missing for twenty four hours and to see what kind of buzz it gets. You know, I I know people have thought about that before I've thought about that before it's it's really not the most far fetched idea, especially when you're under the influence of heavy drinking. I didn't even think about him coming back from his mom's funeral and then thinking I wonder what it would be like for people to miss me. I wonder when that would feel. Can we talk a little bit more about the water? The the the river in an area. How deep was that was the water flow would you like to pronounce the Olatunji? I would not like parenting. Isn't this? I oughta by their. Yes. Well, the the intersect is some point yet they intersect a little further south. I think from where he was, but yeah, I guess so so what about that the river that was closest to him? So regarding that this was this was searched in per the family and per someone that worked close with the family and searchers. And law enforcement. The reports that I've seen state that the water was searched extensively to the point where I think it's his uncle that's on record saying he's not in the water. He never was in the one break. And and he saying that I believe again, I believe it's the ankle. He's whoever said that it's because they were they were part of this the searches and even recall stories of being physically in the water himself. They weren't just they weren't just eyeballing this. They were down in the water, actively searching, and so the searchers say that at the time of the searches the water was roughly two to three feet deep. Now. Of course, there there is going to be pockets that might be slightly deeper than that. And some that will be more shallow, but the general consensus is that it was about two to three feet deep at that time. Okay. So that's enough to drown in but not necessarily enough to be concealed in. Probably. Right. How far aways Lake Erie. If you're to drive there. I don't I I don't know how science works. But I don't I don't think if either of those rivers lead there. Oh, no. I was thinking of someone picked him up. Took him to lake to to science, right? To LA two and a half hours. Roughly. So we also presented this case to a retired detective when we first covered it back in two thousand sixteen and his his main thought was and it was kind of just like a knee jerk reaction. But when we when we shot out the idea of maybe the body of water involved, he said, his immediately didn't miss a beat goes. They would've found him now. And I know that that's not one hundred percent all the time every time, but to hear a seasoned retired detective say immediately, boom, they would've found him. If he was in water, they would've found him. And unfortunately, we lived through that same scenario when Joey loot went missing and his body surfaced or was found approximately thirty or so days after he went missing. With it being a river. Most of the time things get snagged in the river. And they they catch and they stay in one spot at some point. So it's still a possibility. But it seems like it seems like the people involved in the searches people with a long history in law enforcement all seem to believe that it's not likely. Yeah. What about the train tracks? I'm looking here. And there's a looks like the commuter rail or something as a train the transit station. What what that's interesting. I've never thought of that trains that run all through the area. I mean, it's it's a pretty straight shot to the train tracks from the ugly, tuna freight trains, right travel. Boy, you have the tracks. But there. An idea that I've always kinda wondered is if they check the greyhound stations because there's a great hound station downtown. So what was it possible for Brian just jump on the bus and go somewhere? I always wondered if they even check those have to imagine. They check the surveillance video, but no act on his card. Right. Well, and then crash on him as far as financials, go one thing that I think is interesting, and I don't know why find it to be interesting. But the report from law enforcement is that Brian paid his tab that night with cash, and in here, I want wanna do a little speculating on that I think that there might not be such a such a proof positive way of knowing that information, I think it's more of deducing what what didn't happen to determine that he paid the tab with cash. Okay. So there's a chance that he didn't pay it, all and clink. Oh, no so paid. Well. But here's where I wanna go with that. They would've asked Clint that they would have asked Meredith that. Right. There's there statement is Brian paid the his tab with cash. So where I think they arrived to that might be more of an assumption rather than proof positive. His father is on record saying Brian never carried cash he paid with everything for credit card debit card, and but that's what's so confusing. With these cases you hear one thing. And then it's almost like it's always contradicted by his father, and that's a strange. Well, I think part of that is that we have a father that likely believes his son was met with foul play in. And he wants to point out anything that doesn't seem right to him. Now having worked in several bars. Typically, what would go down is. It's very easy obviously to to trace the credit card debit card transactions. So we know he didn't pay with a credit card debit card, regardless of what anyone says now regarding paying the. The tab with cash that night that's very difficult to prove that he physically paid his tab with cash. Most of the time it's not going to ring up under his name could be he could have been listed as anything. He could have been paying as he winning as he win which is most likely. Yeah, I believe if you're paying in cash, you're paying as you go in typically if they're unpaid tabs every establishment that I've worked at there's a log book and any incident goes in the log book and an unpaid tab is an incident, and you have a corresponding credit card. Correct. By the way, I was on the Bing machine again. Yes. And I followed the train tracks and found a freight train on the train tracks. So yes that was a that is a train track that carries freight. Okay. So so freight trains move a little slower than commuter trains. So that is something you could actually hop onto and and like run faster than. Then in a lot of cases. That's an interesting take. I don't think anybody's ever presented that before. And if you look at the where the train tracks are in relationship to the ugly tuna you could almost put his apartment right in the middle. No way. It was it was that direction. Yeah. No. I yeah. So it makes it even closer to another known point where he may have been or was attempting to go to I want to get to two more things before we wrap this up. First of all, you know, there's only one family member left that we can talk to and that's Derek Brian's, brother. But a lot of people find it odd that he is not so Ford with talking with media or podcasters or whoever, but I want you to give your thoughts on that. Nick if you could. I personally don't find it to be strange in this situation. It is thirteen years later, and I know that he's kind of always had this stance. Right or as far back as I could trace. However, it seems that he is willing to communicate. But it seems more to me I believe the statement that and maybe I'm reading too much into this. But in regards to his reaction or turning down interviews or anything like that? The vibe I'm getting from Derek is not so much that he won't communicate regarding the case his brothers missing persons case, it's more. So he it's a very emotional thing for him, and he wishes not to do that on camera or on microphone or to be recorded. And it might just be it might be a proud, dude. That's like, you know, what I if if I talk about this too much or if I think about this too much. I'm going to get choked up, right? Maybe I don't wanna cry on camera. Maybe I don't want to cry on Mike or or whatever and. He's got to can you imagine? First of all, let's let's touch on this his mom, dad and brother in the course of in the course of three years. It's crazy. Hit from four to one and three years. And so it's almost a domino effect. When you think about the emotions in this man is maybe it's not so much. Just he doesn't wanna talk about his brother's case, but it also triggers. His father's tragic death, his mother losing her life to cancer. Can't it's a fucking load. Man, right. It's a load. You can't leave those other quesion when you're looking into this case. But I think that being said all of us here when we're looking into these cases, we're not trying to be disrespectful to a victim or the victim's family. We are dissimilar trying to come to some kind of understanding which would then help the victim. Listen than. Yeah. That that this should freaks me out. I mean, you don't have to be hooked on drugs. You don't have to be from a bad neighborhood. You don't have to be poor or wealthy. You don't have to stand out at all. You can be a Pearl Jam fan. Someone who's going, you know in their six year of medical school in a crowded in a crowded bar and in in Ohio, and you're you're gone, right? At that at the very least I say this because you said, we're we're not trying to be disrespectful to the family at the very least a message you can take from. This is just always be aware of your surroundings. Just try to be aware of where you're at. Where are your friends are at because it can literally happen to anybody anywhere at anytime. And I think that another interesting thing to which I which is the way to handle it in my opinion. Derek and the Schaefer family have been very consistent with saying, they believe that Clint knows more or could offer more assistance. And I applaud them for that. Because I think he he possibly could even if it's information that he does. Doesn't know that could be important. But I applaud them for not accusing him of anything other than right possibly knowing something. In addition to what's been provided. I'd be very interested in talking with Clint or Derek I think it could be done in Meredith. Yeah. Or married to okay. So it was great to listen. You guys talk about this case. As I I've you guys as experts of missing person cases because of how long you have dealt with the Marmara case. Is there one thing that sticks out with this case that you would like to go down that rabbit hole and spend more time on that'd be the first question. The second question is you have a gut feeling of what you think happen. This Starwood Tim, do you mean in investigating the case or do you mean in talking the case out do do? I wanna revisit something. No. I'm just saying like if you're investigating this case if you are us, and we're going to spend more time on this case zero. Is there something through this conversation or through your research that you'd go I would dive down this whole bit more. If you could I would love to I would love to check out the roof of that building. But I also think the that that train tracks. The the freight train is a pretty good is pretty good way to have gotten a little further away. And just you know, I say this conversation has been super enlightening because. A round table discussion of a case like this is really important because you you get to hear the other people the other person's opinion. I'm with you the the train tracks. I'm looking at it. Now that those that goes up to Canada that goes straight up to Canada. And like, you said, Tim, I have never heard me talk anything about a roof in this case. And I've like I've talked about this case two thousand people nobody's ever said. What about the roof? I have to imagine the police search that though. Yeah. I'm I'm sure they I would I would hate it. If the police are listening to this. And they're like, oh, yeah. They they never saw the hangover. So yeah. But the train tracks. Yeah. I would love to I would love to look into that. Because could you imagine that scenario he he is walking back? I didn't know that he was walking back. It's in the direction of his apartment, and he's like, I'll just I'll just I'll just I'll just duck down right here. Maybe sit by the train tracks train trucks along a couple hours later. Cec a schedule, I guess that if you can track down a schedule, I think. That would be valuable information. I know that the the the family what they've said publicly would disagree with this. But I where I once believed the most likely simplest scenario was that somehow he made it out of the bar. He was attacked on his way home place in a dumpster ended up in the landfill. And they just missed it. I still think that's that's likely. However, I'm telling you man, two years later, I'm sitting here in this chair and looking back into this this case again, I'm I'm now completely changed. My viewpoint of I now actually believe the opposite and believed that more than ever that that he could still be out there, and he could still be alive, and the captain hit on something very interesting that we talked about quite a bit. And and I was you know, pushed it off the table discussion wise, but I want to circle back to real quick before we finish up is the the footage of that back hallway of people leaving. Now, we all agreed that if they believe they had proof of Brian leaving. They would have publicly stated that law. They being law enforcement, and I still stand by that statement. However, I'm curious if there are one or two or however many multiple individuals on that footage that maybe they can't identify. Identify. They don't believe them to be Brian for whatever reason, but they have not been identified. I think that's somewhat of a possibility as the captain pointed out multiple times security has mentioned there are other ways there were other ways in and out of that building. I think I think the. When we discussed drug use substance abuse, we discuss behaviors mental makeup all that all that stuff. The the key thing here to remind ourselves of is. It it doesn't necessarily matter so much who Brian was how he was before a month before he disappeared because his mother dying is a trigger that could have sent someone in any different direction, lifestyle wise. Choices wise. Absolutely. Yeah. And I've had friends that were the most target of person you ever met an apparent passed away. And they just became quiet, but I'd really love to if I could like in a perfect world sit down the Clinton talk with him or sit down Derek talk with them, not an Ivan record, it just be on the phone and ask some questions, and you know, if if either one of them here this. I would like to even grab a beer just to go. You drink beer. How's your hangover? So anyways, we should beginning outta here. Because we gotta get back to the airport. So you can get back to Boston active worm town. I do wanna go on record saying this to this is one of few cases that we've circled back to that. We've looked into for a second or third time. We've talked about it on our other show off the record several times, we very likely will circle back to this one again, and again, and again, and I want to be very vocal with with these words saying that we want to help in any way, shape or form if the shape Schaefer, family or friends of Bryan need anything think we can offer anything. Our information is is on true crime garage dot com. We want to help in any shape or form the other thing that I want to help with his directing a lot of the people that tuned in and join us in. The garage today to our very good friends that took time out of their very busy lives to join us in the garage him and Lance tell us briefly again about the podcast about the your projects. And where to find you. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Check us out at crawlspace. Dash media dot com. That's kind of the main landing spot for everything. We do we host the missing Maura Murray podcast. You can find that on Stitcher on apple podcasts. We actually also have a sort of a revisiting of the more Marie case that we are doing for Stitcher premium, and we're calling that creator's commentary. So it's actually us talking over the old episodes and updating with new information and herself fair share of self affixing. That's a really cool project that Stitcher allowed us to do. And we're having a blast. Putting it together. We're delivering the episodes in batches of ten so we'll do these marathon sessions where we listen to ourselves from. Three years ago two years ago, and we talk over it. One liked him said we update information. So it's super informative. I mean, if we said something, and since the factors or the circumstance to circumstances have changed then we update that. So if you're looking for new updated case information, you get the parallel right there. It's really really cool project really fortunate to be a part of it. In and crawlspace is also available on Stitcher, apple podcasts and everywhere. We have the full archive on Stitcher premium and check a finding more Amari on Amazon prime I can speak for the Colonel. When I say, the captain the kernel we have a lot of fun having come visit us and drink with us. And I'm sure Nick will be paying for it for the next couple of days. Well, and we will see you guys at crime con can't late. Yup. And thanks everybody for joining us this week in the garage. We will see you back here in the garage next week until then V good the kind in dome domeless.

Randy Brian Clint Meredith Brian Schaefer robbery Clinton Meredith Canada Nick Weatherford Parma Texas Calgary Ohio New Brunswick murder Johnson city Tennessee Oregon Kaley
Hour 2: 2/27/19

The Paul Finebaum Show

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Hour 2: 2/27/19

"The Paul finebaum show podcast is brought to you by capital. One capital. One is reimagining banking offering account with no fees or minimums that can be opened in only five minutes Capital One. What's in your wallet, Capital One and a? Cried passion, then patterns re of college football leaves here. This is the Paul finebaum show. Our to podcast, really interesting. Learn down memory lane data Robbins about thirty two years ago SMU slam with the death penalty will it ever happen. Again. The answer is probably not the NCW has come close a few times. Remember, the Baylor basketball case there was Penn State, which I don't think ever came close to getting the death penalty. But it was at least inconsideration and Alabama in two thousand and two nearly got the death penalty, and it was their fourth infraction case a number of years, and the chairman of the committee on infractions of the time Thomas Yeager famously said that Alabama was was staring down the barrel of a gun facing the death penalty. I saw him a couple of months ago, the former colonial conference. Commissioner said he's never quite gotten past that with some people in Alabama. And this conversation was taking place in that state eight five five two four to seventy eight five Steve Spurrier at the bottom of the hour. Johnny Manziel, let go by the L. Let's is this the end of his football career. We'll or with the af and the XFL. Around the af now the XFL next year. Will he find yet another last chance to prove everyone wrong who has doubted his ability and his ability to stay out of trouble. Dan is in Louisiana. You're on the air. Go right ahead. Thanks a lot. Thank you. I wanted to ask you a couple of things can forgot time. Sure. Anyway, I heard you say that you felt that. Kentucky was going to beat LSU. And I was just wondering why. Well, listen, I think he asked me a question. And I answered I didn't answer the question. He asked me who I was going to win the SEC. I said I thought Kentucky was the best team in the SEC right now, those are two different things. So I think LSU based on the schedule has a pretty good chance of winning the the regular conference. But overall, I still think Kentucky might be a little bit better. Okay. You know? Right there. I think Kentucky, you know. And LSU right there inland out. I was going to ask you about a book. Okay. I think there ought to be a book written on how what caused Nick segment throw in tile. You know throw in the towel win. Oh, okay. Well, let me ask you this. If he does I think there will be many books written about Nick Sabin. And I think there'll be one written by Nick Sabin as well. He said that no one could do a better job than him. That's debatable. But I don't why do you why did you suggest he's throwing in the Tel? Well, I just think that there's a lot of reasons, you know, players first of all, but I don't think he'd ever retire of the ban. You know, just losing his players. But I think the continent who TV the loyalty the commitment structure. Enter trends are are changing so much that that that would make him feel comfortable not being able to do exactly like he wants to do and have have the team, you know, together. Dan. I I do agree with this part of what you what you just brought up. I think when you are used. Two competing at the highest level. And for some reason, you don't it does wear on you, and it makes it more difficult, and I think in Nick's as long as Nick Sabin is competing for national championships. I don't think anything will change. But the moment that it slips. Very small very small slip or perceptible slip. I think then he will have a hard time. If it ever happens, by the way, right? What I've always thought you it'll be the players not being able to really get what you know out of the players what he's wanting to or needing to and keeping the team together. And and the continuity of his coaches, you know, and and the trio of layers LeBron come in, and, you know, they're even tell by sophomores going out, you know to the pros. Yeah. Listen, you never know as what pushed you somebody over the edge. He's not a patient, man. I think you saw what happened in that game. When when when the coaching staff was not gelling, sometimes the players don't jail this time, the coaching staff didn't jail in believe it did trickle down to the players. Thank you very much for the call. Do. Appreciate it. George is in Carolina, George go right ahead. All right. Let me put voice downhill. Thank you. I'm glad to hear solid do that. Oh, I'm would've mentioned something that I don't really understand about the rule changes. I know this is a rule change in. You know, you consider mull please getting injured and a light the kickoff and all good. Why have they kept in plea kep? This thing up of like, I'm making a two yard gain. And the referee downs of all last good or guard making a run or making a three yard game. And he's not down. They don't blew the whistle. They let it keep going. Well, that's a dangerous thing to me more so dangerous than receiving a punt as far as that's concerned on the kickoff. What have they got that ruling? I mean, that's a good place, Tayo pieces, legs knees. Everything looked like me. They would consider that George. I agree with you. I I'm let me let me defer to to an official and see if we can get get a good answer. I don't have a good one. But I think it makes a lot of sense. Okay. I mean, you know, I don't see where they gaining anything by letting the guy, you know, he one guy tackles Emma stops. And then seven more pile on it. You know, you get rollo's. Listen, there's any football player will tell you that what happens at the bottom of those piles is is not for the faint hearted. No is is stupid. I think you know, you you should take consideration that you know, he's a half back. They don't have about three years playing time in and I'm a South Carolina fan. And and I you know, we've had some good running back for one of our greatest running back with some of that same thing. Now a lot of that was his phone because he didn't believe in going down. And you know, so he took the punishment into costume his pro career. But the other thing I wanted to mention I know you've talked to a lot of Alabama passed ball players and the Heisman Trophy winners and all this stuff, but I was in my hometown in South Carolina, and we I was at a favorite soda shop that on the nice afternoon and a little cross the street, and I said that looks like Johnny Mack Brown. Standard is a big old to endure it over. That's what is that. You know, a couple of people were standing around. So I. Well, no. And it was Johnny Mack Brown. And I said, we're good Tristesse. You know, he played in the thirties. And he was giving how always regret I was you know, so struck I'm not starstruck for. Signatures like that. But I didn't even speak to him. But he surprised me in his he wasn't a big person toll wise, but he was solid built like a five. And that was to be that was one autographed. I should've asked. I mean, he play I think on Obama's first Rose Bowl team. And you probably know this Johnny Mike Brown turned out to be a very famous Hollywood actor. Oh, yeah. Let's see. That's why I saw him. I I'd go over that. If Johnny Mack Brown. You know, if he was on that horse. It was tough to look at that Saturday. I mean, you know, Johnny Mack Brown was some and I stood Dan. Let the whole thing go by and get a autograph. But I regret that. I just wanted you ever talk to it. No, no. I I believe he was gone considerably before. I got to Alabama. But no I heard a lot about him though. He was from what was his name of city from. Let me he was from. I think he's from dothan Alabama. That's right. That's right. You know, honor the wire, grandma, computer day, and that people have Dovan. So that's the only good thing that would happen in Dover. Johnny mike. I've been the dose, and it's a nice voice. But yeah. Oh, it sounds like pretty good good football town in a very serious football town. Hey, listen. Thank you very much for the call. Do appreciate hairy. Probably remembers. Johnny Mack Brown is in New Orleans. Hey, paul. It's up Harry, Paul, you know, sometimes your your guests. If if I hear it coming on jogs, my memory, can I can I give you a memory job on coach Spurrier, you bet while I've been wondering if it was if it was accurate or not, maybe, you know, if not a think, I'm no, but I wanna test. See if you do is it accurate that coach was born in Tennessee. Steve Perry was born in Johnson city, Tennessee. Okay. Well, which part of the Tri cities in at the at the far east north eastern corner its borders. Bristol and Kingsport right on the I think it's Virginia border. Yeah. Well, I heard this a long time ago. And I just wanted to see if it was accurate that coach graves at Florida found out about coats Spurrier when he was a young high school plan because his coach grave is brother was postmaster in Johnson city. Yeah. Always wondering haunted, Florida get Steve Spurrier, Tennessee. Here's how they did. It. I think I talked to coach about this. Once I believe at the time, Tennessee was implementing the single wing. And he did not want to play that type of football. Well, it would be interested to know if coach gray is by the head when did work at the post office in Johnson city. I don't know that. But stays Steve's father was a minister in Johnson city. Uh-huh. And well, it's always interesting to me how great players or taken out of a state, and and maybe they don't they're all not relatively known that much then, but the same thing in real quick call, and I'm gonna let you go real quick. All this week's was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He he he came right behind Archie manning. And I always wondered how you taken out of Louisiana. But those things happen all great show. I'm looking forward to kosher. Yeah. I mean, listen Archie. And he had Archie you. I'm Peyton Manning in New Orleans. None of them play for LSU to Intuit on this one at Tennessee. We are going to take a break. More of your phone calls at eight five five two four. Two seven two eight five Spurrier will join us at the bottom of the hour. We will get you ready for the college basketball lineup a little bit later on the show. We're coming right back to listening to the Paul finebaum show podcast. Cried packing. Then pageantry of college football leaves here. This is the Paul finebaum show. Our to podcast, very will. Join us shortly by with a gun a Wednesday afternoon with continue more phone calls. Andy is next up in Knoxville handy. Say you selling bravery that? Joe Rexroad mash real yes, he has had a photograph of the foul on Trent. And it it looks like he was fouled. And even though he wouldn't have the congress on the offense if out him, but it it looked like is called wrong, and he was talking about what they not to fail. He was a dead. The thing that LSU, and I agree with him. He said he such a good. Version that that they should be more careful than anybody has the he never he never did would be able to go against LSU game again. But I mean, you'd be able to go to the other games. Andy. Thank you very much. Hoover is up next Hoover. Go right ahead. How you doing great? Thank you. A couple of points. Listen, I know do because without Don. And he lost a couple games where base getting a bit the past. If you think about it. We lost three traffic Kentucky, and we feel amuse down fifteen points last night and Jimmy dykes. Hate listening to him how he talks about the quicker faster more athletic better team that Kentucky just what happened. And you know, I looked in my wife's fifty six seconds. And I I I said gonna fifty six seconds is less than the secondhand. Let's say she thinks that there are quicker faster team than us. Then. Knicks home I talked to Jimmy I'll make sure he gives us an answer to that. Rick green. We'll come. Oh, it they'll open. Rick is up next. Are you but by bomb? Hey, rick. How're you doing? I'm fine. I'm eight thousand percent sure that the Adolf roof Cadillac bear. Bryant lighter is true. Really? Yes. I have a copy of the Adolph Rupp show, and they bear blah was his gas. And they talked all about it and bear Bryant never use the lighter. And he talked about the Cadillac, and I'm the same guy that has the I ninety five more p Brian, and I send it to you again over a month ago. When I haven't heard from, you know, we're wrinkle let me let me explain something. And I I think you're gonna cues me just making stuff up. I got something. Let me let me John Dany combat me up on this. This building is under construction right now. Dany John I want you to join in here. And there are hundreds of construction workers in our building. It's difficult to to maneuver and I got sensor. I got something in the mail yesterday. That was that was sent in November. So my my point is I don't know what's going on around here. But I will tell you again, Rick. I haven't gotten it yet. And I'm I'm not making excuses. The the I don't know where you're sending it, but we are not getting the mail on a regular basis here. Okay. Y'all vouch for I haven't got anything in weeks, dead John mail. I check my mail in years. Well. If you're a Tuscan lose, the if you'll let me know, I'll drought book in hand deliver it till you because I would like to I will be in Alabama where where do you live? I live in brea, which is thirty miles south of Tuscaloosa, okay? Well, there's a good chance overwhelming chance I'll be in Alabama several times between now and the football season. Okay. I'm looking forward to it. How also so you the Adolph Rupp show where they talk about it. And they talked about how they everybody says they didn't get along in bear Bryant. Did you are always nice to be? I don't know what they're talking about. Well, I'm glad to clear that Rick. I will see you in Alabama. Thank you for the call. Good to have you on Ken is in Austin, Texas. You're on the air go. Right ahead. Ken. Yeah. Thanks for taking my call. Listen comment on that. I heard that bear Bryant left Kentucky because he said it was a basketball school, by the way. I'm a sports fan seventy five years, and I have heard all that. I had a couple of questions. Hey, didn't Brian good. A Texas A&_M though from Kentucky he did. And. But and they didn't like him there either. By the way, you know, because the story I heard about that you wanna hear a quick story about that. Yeah. I mean, but that was a much better job. I think. Oh, yeah. But here's the thing. They used to have buses take them from the gym to the practice field embarrasses, no way. And that made a lot of the players unhappy that he quipped baby on. But anyhow Benny went out that would be an understatement. Yeah. Listen, I have a couple of questions, but first let me say I thought to handled I guy from Ohio brilliant. Thank you. And I'm a case something since you're there in Charlotte. Did you know that Boston sent of deck delegation down to Charlotte to ask them how to integrate their schools? I it wouldn't surprise me now but gave. I lived in in Kerry at the time, and I'm curious near Raleigh. Raleigh is a suburb of Kerry, right? Well, let me get back to my question now was floor. I'm a Florida fan, by the way, like say for seventy five years. Let's Florida's chances of doing anything in the next both the SEC tournament and in the national. They've been winning lately in in basketball. Yes. Yeah. I think I listen to their right now projected to make the field, but I don't see them making much of a run. I just. This is not the year. Hey, listen. Thank you very much. I want to correct something. Appreciate that. Call. I mentioned I said Spurrier was born in Johnson city. He was not born in Johnson city. He went to high school in Johnston. Spurrier believe it or not was born in Miami, Miami Beach. I did not I did not know that he was there for a year, and then his family moved to Charlotte where his grandparents were in. Then ultimately, they they made the move to the Tri cities in Tennessee. So I know some people out there going, hey, he wasn't born here, but he did go to high school there. And that's where he spent most of his early life. Speaking of him. He will join us next. Steve Spurrier born in Miami. You'll you learn something every day to listening to the Paul finebaum show podcast. Cried pack then patterns re of college football leaves here. This is the Paul finebaum show. Our to podcast watching a app, you the missing some very big football. And the team many considered to be the best. The coach may disagree is spur undefeated and heading out west this week. Coach first of all, congratulations. It's been quite a run for the Apollo's three in Ohio and heading to Salt Lake this weekend. Well, thank you, Paul. I tell you what we I think we got a good team. When you don't always look like one at times, but we got we got a fighting chance to to compete compete for the championship. But it's a long way to go. We've only three of the ten and hopefully will qualify for the playoffs for the eighteenth do qualify. So hopefully, we can do that. But we're we're we're looking forward to playing Salt Lake see the Saturday night. I think it's eight o'clock eastern town just from a personal standpoint have been like getting back in it and coaching and being on the sideline again. Yeah. Tell you what Paul. Hopefully, I'm coaching luck. I used to coach mostly at Florida. We only have ten distant coaches. So I'm back being quarterback coach fits coordinator and all that kind of stuff and head coach. So I've been probably more busy the last two months than I did as a college head coach. It seems like we have a lot of assistance from so many people and so forth. And but it has been we just got through practicing at I don't know if you know or not, but we in Jacksonville right now. No, we had trouble. Securing workmen's compensation insurance for the team in the state of Florida, but Georgia sold it to us and part of the deal is we have to spend half of our days in the state of Georgia. So we've got a practice facility up in Kingsland, Georgia, Camden County high school. So we bust about fifty minutes up there and back each day. And this very nice and hotel here in Jacksonville is very nice. So we're sort of a traveler bunch of gas. It's a good thing. We're all like each other. Because we're with each other all day it pretty much about eight eight thirty at night and so forth. You mentioned only having what you said tennis systems. Some I mean can't coach saving you some of those offensive analysts. No. In fact, allows said you can only have one I think one sorta Gada helped out with the equipment that maybe can charge some plays or something like that. So we do have one guy that sorta helps out both sides of the ball. But yeah, we got plenty of guys. You know, the in the pros we only got fifty two guys on the team. And I think we're going to be able to dress out forty five this week the first three weeks, it was forty three EPA don't give us a couple of more guests to suit up. So we've really got plenty of coaches, and and this is the way I wanted to do it. Anyway, as far as getting back spending all McNabb with quarterbacks pretty much all day during practice. This is you've done professional football at a number of levels from from the NFL. You're also were very successful coach in the in the US. How would you rank or rate the quality of players in this league? Tallish very very similar USFL and maybe a little bit better. We just don't have the star players. Yes. Fell wanted each team to San one or two big names. You know, gosh Herschel Walker played in the US FA or Jim Kelly. Steve Young Reggie White. Right guys hall of fame NFL guys after the league folded up. So we're we're not spending money on those gas. And in fact, everybody in the alliance all the players make the same amount. So the snapper tell the team the other day one of the sat pursue one back a little low. I said you realize you're making the same amount of money is geared Gilbert, and he's leading the alliance and passing yards right now y'all making the same amount. So that's just the way we are. So it's it's really a an opportunity supreme football league that a lot of these guys don't get chance playing NFL next year. And that's what we want. We want a bunch of our guys to make it. And I believe we have. Several that will we've got three or four wide receivers. They're very good running backs defensive linemen linebackers. We gotta linebacker tenants. Garvan has already got three interceptions one for touchdown. So it's going to give these guys a chance to get noticed. And maybe go to the big leagues next year talking to Steve Spurrier. I you know, we talked. I think last summer, and you mentioned and others have since about reaching out to Tim Tibor bring that up now t-boz any longer on the table. But you may have heard you may not have the Johnny Menzel was let go today by the CF L. Would you have any interest in in in talking to him? Well, that's up to San Antonio. They're the one owns his right? But yeah, it was sort of interesting way back last March or April when the alliance was formed and the announcements came out, you know, there was talk of Kibo Orlando. Johnny Manziel, the San Antonio camper next to San Diego where none of those worked out. So I I don't think I don't know what's going to happen with Johnny football. But seems like whatever happened up there. Maybe a little staying owning. But we'll just have to wait and see. But Paul I tell you the truth. You know, we've been in San Antonio the whole month of January, and they don't have that C C networks. I haven't been keeping up with you like normally half all during football season. I need to know are the Alabama fans. Okay. That they lost one game this year. Coach q this all the Auburn people. Happy or sad that their state did not win the national championship. You've been around the league longer than I think you already know the answer that question coach the Alabama fans have come up with quite a few expectations for losing by twenty eight points. Day. What I was asked about it, and that's a limitation every team can have a bad night or a bad day and Jala Bama had a bad one. And the other team may have an exceptional day. It happens all the time. And it just sorta happened that night. You gotta give dab on his gas credit, though, they play close to perfect and just it didn't work out for them that night. I am curious your thoughts on Trevor Lawrence because some he was outstanding in that game. And all you. I tell you what they have built a system that you know, he doesn't have to run maybe once or twice the game. And he he's he's pretty good at that. But boy, he's a dropback passer. He throws it beautifully. And there's an advantage at six six. Those are peo- is when you think it here, and you're standing up there looking down on everybody. He's he's quite a talent in these got talented guys all around also. But you gotta give Daboh credit forgetting, this guy's ready all the time. And the mental part that that he is given Clemson there there they go they go to contend for next year. Also, speaking of the SEC, we'll get back to your team in a second. But the Gators had a phenomenal finish to the season with that ballwinning. I know you're you've been in Texas. But what's it look like for Dan Mullen for? I had a chance to go back and see Dan before we went out there in January right after the bowl game. I said it's going to be big for you. It's it really helped in recruiting and to dominate Michigan. Like that. What was it forty one to seven or ten or something like that? Whatever was a big win for the Gators and they really played well defense offense special teams. So I think he really did help for cruelty. I tell him, unfortunately, Georgia's sat in all the best players along with Alabama by SIL the future for Florida football. Does look very bright right now. Let me come back to this game this weekend. I believe you're you're playing Dennis Erickson is it for the first time. Yeah. Dinnie not good buddies when he was at Miami. And Florida we didn't play each other and with but we put played FSU. So we try to team up on how to beat those gas. I think he'd beat them more than I did. But we get to be buddies. We played golf together knows Nike golf trips and Lake Tahoe one time, and he even heading out his house and court Elaine, upstate Washington near Spokane. Sure beautiful area. So yeah, we'll be buddies before the game and after the game and in between try best to beat each other. I realize your job is to coach. But. This league has gotten good reviews. The this the the NHL owner from Carolina put a tremendous investment in are you do you try to? I mean, you you you have to be concerned about about the league. Do you pay much attention to all that? Or you just do do do coaching. Do the ball coach in Paul when we're not tick this gig. It might be for one year. It might be for three. I don't know what it is. But I'm just I'm worried about this year this year, we got a good bunch of gas. We're gonna try best to see if we can win this thing. And whatever happens after that shoot. Who knows? But I do think they alliance has wonderful chance to succeed because the salaries are low there's plenty of really good football players that wanna play football. Maybe just got cut, you know, by NFL team on the last cut guys. And there's so many players on that team wonder why he's available for us. I know he's better than a bunch of dudes. I've been watching on television. But so now they're going to get that chance and the NFL is really supporting the elapse. I think it's a good league. Is we call triple AAA pro football. And that's what we're going to be. We we can't compete within that fell not trying to. But it's real. Good football people in love football. I'm sure you and so many SEC people. Hey, there's a ball game on Saturday night football game. We catch basketball when tournament starts so people love football there. I think they're watching us play. And finally because he's such a good friend of yours. Were you surprised when when Bob stoops announce that he was coming back as well to the XFL next? Well, we talked a little bit his first year and sort of asked him he had the interest coming down in coaching with us. And he said, no he said, but he said you've been out two years. I'm I've only been out one. Let me wait. I'm out too. Well together up to this new league came to him. Now, I don't know where they're gonna find all their players because the players we have now I have like three year contracts, and if they're free go the NFL, but if they don't go there, they they're back with with our teams in the alliance. So it'll be interesting how that plays out. We'll coach what I do know is pointing out is is is is watching you on the sidelines. And and we do watch all the games, and you look like you're having a blast. And I know that makes your many fans all over the happy sometimes polit. They what is the story of the night. I think we had to punt four possessions in a row, Mr. fourth in one at midfield and. And I was sort of bad mouthing myself under my breath, the bunch but fortunately worked out for us. And we're we're we're set to go in this week had a good practice today. Gear Gilbert's a beautiful passer. Tell you throws. He throws a nice balti- two cats and receivers are pretty good. So hopefully, we can get them imposition to do their thing. And and keep keep winning as we go along. We'll Gilbert as you know, he was once the number one quarterback in the country when he went to Texas, so. Yeah. He was with the the Charlotte. Carolina panthers. At the end of last season. Fact, he went up there and played a little bit the last game. And so he he'll somebody assigned him. I'm pretty sure after this alive season's over we'll coach we'll be watching Saturday night. Congratulations again, and we hope to talk to you more. Okay. Paul always hit talk to you. Go cease burger, the coach of the Orlando Apollo's. I've talked I've known co Spurrier's since he coach for the Tampa Bay bandits, Duke, Florida the Redskins, South Carolina. And now the Apollo's we will take a break more to come. As we roll on on a Wednesday afternoon. Listening to the Paul finebaum show podcast. Cried packing. Then pageantry of college football leaves here. This is the Paul finebaum show. Our to podcast get back to the call. How bologna Missouri? Collie you're on the air. Go ahead. Hey, Paul how you doing? We're doing great. Thank you very much. I just wanted to talk about man, these allegations that they're putting zoo football through for some kids that didn't do anything. What do you think about that? Well, yeah. I I would agree that it's it's always unfair. When players who were not even around ended up paying the piper that that's the that's the NCW convoluted system it is under appeal. I don't think it's going to matter much in spite of all the conversation at Mizzou, it just it doesn't seem right. I I would agree with you on that. I got one less thing to add who's going to go into the season ranked. I think preseason ranked twenty one twenty two depends where you look they got a pretty easy out of conference schedule if they start five and six zero and they're ranked in the top ten what what do you think we're going to be seeing on you spend sportscenter about that ban? Well, I mean, you'll you'll it will definitely be a subject, but but let me make it clear Kyle that you know, what happens with the appellate process is not going to really affect anything other than Missouri's postseason. I I think it would it would add to the pressure perhaps. But. I have I I have rarely if ever seen the NC double A concerned about anyone else's well being other than their own. Thank you very much for your call. Great to have you on Dan is in Kentucky on the air. Go right ahead. Dan. I just wanted to mention about the mentioned earlier in the problem, but the ole miss deal, and what was going on there. And also east Kentucky pan is you can probably tell them into Bacharach area. And the thing about the calls. You usually have you watched the conduct games. Of course, we get the best game to any anything place, sir. And those those other fires to God's especially they will stick out left arm out trying to go around this or the right arm when they tried to go around us, and they will get ninety percent of the calls us watch. And you if it's not right. But they they oh miss thing in our set back and just you know, listen to respond. Well, it wasn't. We're we're we're we're going to own this little bit later in the show indications out of Oxford to Saturn or that we will not see anything tonight. Newsworthy in relation to the national anthem. That's the expectation. That's what everyone there is saying privately will we'll know about seven o'clock tonight. But the predictions are that the basketball game will be the center of attention tonight. And nothing else Milly is in Raleigh. You're on the air, Emily. Hi, paul. How you doing today? Very well Milly. Thank you for the call. And you looked commended yesterday is as you look today. Thank you so much. Okay. Anyway, you said something yesterday towards the end of the show, you guys talking you and Mark we're talking about SARS, and you've mentioned Nick Sabin, whatever he remember, he would consider being deserve of college football. That's something Tim Brando has been promoting for a number of years that college football needs as are. Okay. And you were getting ready to say who you thought and then you win. Off the air. So could you finish your conversation? I do think saving would be the best choice. I I mean, I think you have to look at it. If they've been dozen do it the then where do you go Millie? What would what do you think? Well, I still think he would. But, you know, something of all the sports in the entire world. I think he would make the best one to use. It. You think they would trust me putting me in charge of college football? I think I would take the job millions. It sounds like a pretty easy job. Yeah. And you you're the smartest one really is far as football and baseball and basketball and the whole nine yards is concerned. You know, I think you indeed got the first thing I would do would name name, Danny Bram is my my societas czar, and John and more. Something tells me John would not take the job. I think John probably it would be too confining for John. John how bad it? I the way too confining for me. Beyond jet off to compare us in Rome, and and an England if he has a job like that. We're back with much more to Morales are listening to the Paul finebaum show podcast.

football Paul finebaum Steve Spurrier Alabama basketball Kentucky Dan Mullen Florida SEC Tennessee NFL Johnny Mack Brown LSU Louisiana Charlotte Nick Sabin South Carolina XFL Texas Johnson city
Shawshank - The Most Haunted Prison in America

Talk Is Jericho

53:00 min | 1 year ago

Shawshank - The Most Haunted Prison in America

"Talk Ricco talk is Jericho does the pot of thunder and rock and roll. And it's leakier tomorrow February twenty ninth. You won't get another one of those for four more years but you will get another duff mccague joke of the week right now and next Friday and so on and so on. He's never let us down yet. Let's see where the dumpster has got. Today defecating call him yet. You know. Uh there's all moved into also some you know but they got a fool and they got all the stuff workout place and that stuff and He's a fool One day and Woman there at the folks on Simpson's goes If you drop shorts and I could see a ball I can tell you how old you are. It's no good so he does George the salt and you're eighty two. He goes well how the hell right she says. Well you told me yesterday by Well it's one that can only come from the mouth and brain of defecate or maybe axle had something to do with that. One gets a lot of his jokes the week from Axel and guns in the middle of rehearsals in ready for the upcoming tour telling jokes over there doing they're headed to Mexico and South America The next month. And then the North American Summer Twenty Twenty Stadium Tour kicks off July fourth the Milwaukee Wisconsin. Get your tickets and guns and Roses Dot. Com and get your tickets to rock with Fosse as well. That's right hitting the road on the save. The World Tour were starting April Sixteenth in Savannah Georgia April. Seventeen Ninety eight rock fest in Tampa Eighteenth. Wjr Earth Day birthday in. Orlando there were hitting Chattanooga Johnson City Tennessee at Capone's that one sold out. Sorry guys we're headed to Charlotte Nashville Louisville Baltimore Pittsburgh Cleveland Lancaster Pennsylvania Buffalo Iowa City Minneapolis for the twins takeover the target center Lincoln The Kid rock fest in Wisconsin GonNa Kiss cruise for Halloween October thirtieth. Got LOTS OF GIGS. Coming up and shows are selling Iraq dot com. Don't end up like the people in Johnson City who missed out to be sold out also got the best. Vip meet-and-greet program in the world. Today we take pictures sign autographs so we do a mini concert for you One of the better. Vip experiences that you're GonNa get in rock and roll and cheese. Were already sold out in Lancaster. Pennsylvania believer sold out in Pittsburgh as well so go to fuzzy rock DOT COM and do not get left behind. Come join us. Don't be scared. We wanted to come with Ozzie. But we want you to be scared today because return to the paranormal with some inside stories from one of those haunted prisons in America. The Ohio State Reformatory prison. It's the same prison where the movie Shawshank Redemption was filmed. A few music videos have been filmed there as well. God Smack Eric Church. Most recently. We're going to focus mostly in the paranormal sightings at the prison over the years and the stories inmates. I've got Dan Zoe. And who all work at the prison. Giving parable tours. Lena's a fourth generation employee of the prison her dad and grandfather and great grandfather all guards. Her grandmother worked on the administrative side as well so she's got stories to share their experiences. We recorded this on the grounds the prison during broad daylight So we stayed away from some of the the The shadows and spirits even though the band shinedown what later on that night after they're setting saw bunch of orbs and moving lights and all that sort of stuff. There's a lot of crazy things going on. In the Ohio state reformatory prison. The most haunted prison in America. Right here right now. Talk Jericho okay. So we played this really cool show today at the Ohio performance or reform formed Pretoria reformatory. That's it right and basically it's a big festival that's in the exact same place where they filmed shawshank redemption. But when I was talking about doing this show I found out that the prison is a little haunted. That's exactly I mean that's kind of what? The Room is here with three employees. You guys working Scott. Got Down Alanna and Zoe. Now you guys work at the prison because this place. I was just inside of it and it's pretty creepy inside because it's a real legit prisoner. It's not a movie set evenly film Shawshank Year. It's pretty legit so tell us a little bit about the history of the prison because you go in there and it looks like scary. Yeah absolutely so We opened our doors in eighteen. Ninety six we were a facility for young for some offenders between the ages of fifteen and thirty five and then we were that minimum security prison up until about nineteen fifty nine nineteen sixty and then we were a full maximum security prison for the worst of the worst sense state of Ohio up until December thirty first nineteen ninety. That's when we closed our doors But directly behind us there are two active prisons and they took over what we left off on. So you said this is for the worst of the worst. Yes zero killers and murderers now. Why did the doors close? So in nineteen seventy five. There was a A lawsuit of sorts so the Council for humane treatment represented two thousand four hundred inmates and they took us are to court and they said that the facility was not fit for humans and conditions weren't good and the biggest issue was overcrowding. So we were only supposed to hold like one thousand nine hundred inmates and we had swelled to about three thousand five hundred like we were. We were packed. What the mall like cells are so tiny. Yeah and I'm assuming it's two people per cell right. Two three sometimes four four people muscles. The guys who want to sell was the size of if you have a Pantry in your house and that has food in it like a walk in Pantry that was about the size of a measurement seven feet by nine feet on e cellblock seven feet by nine feet for three or four people. I used to live with three guys in a one bedroom apartment and shit so they closed it down. But obviously because it's a little bit of a. Would you call it a famous building? Whatever like a monument they didn't tear it down or anything like obviously they didn't but no on they were going to tear the facility down and then they kind of crunched. The numbers and seat of Ohio didn't want to pay for it to be torn down so we were vacant building up until about nineteen ninety-three s when Shawshank came in Then after that the fellas that we work for our PS which Minnesota formative preservation society where a private historical nonprofit. We came in started. Doing goes hunts Tours stuff like that and then by two thousand one. We had finally convinced the state of Ohio to put it up for auction and we were the only ones that showed up. So we got it for one dollar really. You bought the prison for one dollars. And they gave us our dollar back. They just wanted it off their hands. So do you guys have well if you've been in there and there's a lot of upkeep Cohen honestly like maids cleaning up you have to take the upkeep of it and that sort of thing yeah absolutely so we actually have a whole restoration crew right now. That's working to restore certain parts of the bill. Because you go in there you can see. There's like a a tourist self tour. You walk around somebody. The guys in the band went to the warden's because you left a lot of the scenery props save from shawshank redemption like the warden's office and the desk and all that sort of stuff. What else is an exciting chance to see that? Yes we have this safe in there as well We have actually the tunnel that Tim Robbins crawl through. So we've got that as well and a lot of the artwork and things that was leftover from it but you mentioned though that the ghost hunts yes. So you're saying that is official there. Ashley is paranormal activity. Yes in that area. At least in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of people it is definitely something there and this is because obviously mentioned the one hundred years of inmates going in and out of their Some of the worst of the worst. I'm sure quite a few of them died while they were they. Were inside so kind of tell us some of the some of the stories and some of the issues and things sees always always say so. I can tell an experience that my friend actually had if you're interested in a personal story of course so we were actually everyday after tours or over. We've pushed the two out. Make sure nobody gets lost. And we don't lock anyone inside of course and we were on the third floor which is where you kind of go into the chapel which is like the first area where inmates would be like the division point between the administrative staff and the inmates and My friend actually solve a CO worker. Saw a man in a full suit with a Bowler Cabin. Everything go into a room and she was like. Hey look you gotta you gotTa keep going. We're exa closing up the route. It's time to time to close. And she never saw him again and she was really confused because it was like ninety degrees that day. No one should have been in a full suit you know. She works full suit and tie. Yes Yup and she went up to the front desk and asked if a man had come in full suit and the front desk said they never saw anyone so she thinks that you saw full body apparition which is pretty cool and that's also pretty rarely full body apparition. Yeah that's pretty intense. That's usually we get a lot of orbs around here. We get like shadow years. But it's pretty rare that you see like a full body apparition so that's pretty sick absolutely now the solvency. Because like I said so. We did a Lotta inmates die than in the prison. Yeah Yeah we don't know exactly. How many I've heard anywhere from like you know two hundred but between thousand if I had to guess I'd probably put it at about maybe six hundred seven hundred But it's just hard to tell because some of a records aren't exactly the most consistent things in the world but if you're talking about six or seven hundred souls dying there that are mean evil people in a lot of ways than it makes sense that there'd be ghosts there of course you know because you say there's a lot of different places like the famous one. I think it's Kentucky which was like the civil war the infirmary hospital for hundreds or probably know which one it is or whatever is over hundreds of people are dying INS. Horrible disease deaths. Are you know a war deaths? And it's one of the most haunted places in America because of it so this is kind of the same five here. Sure absolutely. I mean we people that come in here that say they've been scratched. Feel like somebody pushed on all those type of things hair polled. Yeah Yeah I got my hair pulled Joseph story all right so so I I do. The ghost hunters ghost walks. Here so goes walks are kind of a little bit more team. It's like nighttime to her. And then the ghost hunts. We opened up the entire facility can walk around to like three in the morning Wander around want around your own Ghost. Heart rate goes on equipment and So I was down in the sub basement which is underneath of solitary confinement. That's you original solitary confinement And then like if you've ever heard of the whole like when like indicates thrown in the whole Yuccas even today as a quick segue the whole line of cells and right across there is a little door that one of the producers went into with door. Obviously them maybe. It's a hole in one of the holes or something that was super small though. Yeah there's a hole down in the basement Nazi original hole and I was doing beyond the bars tour which takes you to areas of the prison. Aren't open to the public. And so we're down there during the daytime and I was talking about my ghosts experiences and I got something touched my shoulder and it was like if someone has really rough hands. Y'All kind of catches on the fabric in Sasakawa has kind of weird well. Two weeks later I was telling the same story my on the daytime As telling the same story in something pulled my hair and it was like If you ever have brothers or like a dad and do that thing where they pull the back of your hair. But she's real quick can will jerk does make you mad It was like that and I completely lost my train of thought. I was in the middle of a sentence of so embarrassed. Okay I guess we're going to go back upstairs now. Well I was talking to one of my co workers outside and as you know. Some weird stuff keeps happening downstairs during the daytime. He was like Oh yeah. They're two boys died down there the the whole filled up with water and they drowned. Guys really didn't tell me about that before deadly recently after the pro knows this was this was the beginning boys hanging on in a prison on will. We were a place for young first time offenders. Yes I yet. Even that's creepy that the water filled up and they just happen to fall in it and drown like it's so that's that's really privy. Yeah when you're talking about some of the to tell us a little bit more about the kind of the whole like what exactly that. What how would you do to get put in the whole? How long did you stay for actual prisoners? Okay so I'll ghost prisoners real ones. Okay I can do that. So Basically solitary confinement or the whole is prison within the prison so I'm fourth generation. Employees at our way is really. Yeah Suf- four generations of your family worked here at the prison. In what capacity so may great? Great Grandfather was one of the first guards here in eighteen ninety six. There's little photo of him in the Hallway and from nineteen thirty four. It's all the guards. My grandfather was the captain of the guard here. My Grandmother was the first female employed. So this is my grandma. My GRANDPA met yet her office on the West Cellblock. She had guys on both sides of her. She loved it And then my dad got hired in the eighties. But we were kind of going. A little bit downhill then. So he took a different different job but now he's hired again as a tour guide. So we carpool. Basically in a lot of ways your family now owns the prison. It's fun yes. You have a real affinity to it. Oh yeah so so. You're mentally four generations the whole so my my grandfather who was captain of the guards the way it works is that captain of the guards in the warden are present during your disciplinary action in court hearing and you go in as an inmate. They decide what you did wrong. And then you're sending solitary confinement or the whole The whole would have been a just hold on the ground. You crawled down a ladder Your food and your restroom lower down to you in a bucket. Hopefully not the same bucket But that that deemed cruel and unusual punishment so you can probably guess but So we had to build solitary cells above that Solitary was captain. Either Twenty four hours a light twenty four hours dark kept it about ninety three degrees year round in it just kind of at the will of the court how long you're going to stay down there. I will the court or the war Kind of both so we had a courthouse was in the facility And there were about five judges the warden and then the captain of the guards and they would all decide together. So what would the average time that you're in the whole be a no no usually usually the whole itself would have been for weeks at a time weeks at a time enough to drive you crazy? Yeah I mean like I said literally just being in there and walk inside the cell of course thinking some ghost is going to close the cell mocking them stuck there forever. But it's hard just to be in that in that prison with the little window. The bars on US look through it like very not and you may look. It's a real depressing prison. The right you see like all the paint is it. Looks like it's been underwater in the ocean algae and kind of that looks like that sort of vibe and what I mean so the be in there and being the whole I mean that's enough to drive you nuts A lot of solitary confinement was actually managed to mess with the inmates lines like they usually keep solitary like whether it be the whole or the normal solitary in twenty four hours of light or twenty four hours of darkness so like within a couple days. You wouldn't know like left from right like you would have no clue anything was earlier when you were awake. When you're asleep when you eat right how long you been in there? So it was pretty cruel. Imagine being in the dark for twenty four hours. I said you wouldn't know is your whole sense of time and everything. It's like being in a Vegas Casino. What time it is next with. Next best to tell some some more ghosts ghost stories As for more ghost stories The same closet that Zoe was talking about that. That are co worker. Saw Somebody in My father was giving a tour and My father was giving tours yet. There's nobody out there so he was He was given a tour in these people that come up from Tennessee and they wanted to see a place that freaks out My Dad has worked in corrections for like thirty something years just retired and so the only the only room that breaks him out as the room that that closets in. He's like every time I go near. Get static of the back my legs into my head just freaks them out so he took these people from Tennessee in there before he even tell them what he experiences. The Dad was like. I feel like there's like electricity in here. He's like that's what I feel. Whatever so they go into another room and their son who was like how are Asia nineteen twenty. He was stayed in the room and just was hanging out in the closet. Not but like two minutes later. He comes running out of the room and into the room. The Dad and the parents are in and he's got tears down his face like not physically crime but he's had been crying. I saw bald man in that closet and Catholic. The bald man like yeah. Yeah so appalled men in that closet two days later we get a picture of a full body apparition of a bald man in the closet. Judas later from where Two days later another. Wow other tourist took a photo in. It's a bald man in closet though. Is there ever any Trying to piece together who it might be It could really. It could be a guard because that's the area that they're talking about would've been where the guards would have stayed if they would have like running out the rooms by the month or by the day like if they were going to be home for awhile he's needed an excuse to get away from home you know and so it could have been a guard. It could've been awarded at one point. I know the possibilities are endless. So I'm sure there's stories about some of the prison inmates and we'll get into those but I I think it's time for everyone to step up with boost mobile and switched to the wireless carrier. That gives you everything could possibly want like a super fast super reliable network. Unlimited data plans the latest phones all the top brands at affordable prices unlimited data unlimited music streaming and service plans that already include taxes and fees. What's not to love about any of that? Plus you'll get four free Samsung Galaxy eight twenty phones for the whole family. You'll still get four lines for twenty five dollars per month with limited gigs for data talk tax in. Hey with my family I know important. It is to have unlimited data. We got five people in my house or costly on their phones. Texting post is social. Media watching videos and listening to music in episodes of talk is Jericho. We don't need be fighting over data. So what are you waiting for? Step up with boost mobile and switch. Today it's a limited time offer while supplies. Last new customers only requires port and activation from eligible carrier one free device per line users using more than thirty five gigs of data during a billing cycle. Maybe deprioritize during times of network injection Offers and coverage not available everywhere see boost mobile dot com or retailer for full details and go do it now. Stores the invade search results famous in. May's top of the worst of the worst One of our most famous inmates isn't known for being bad. You know for being pretty good He his name's Gates Brown. He was born. As and crest line. Came to us our was on the baseball team. He was really good. Really good a baseball And so good. That we've been built stadium seating around the baseball diamond. Like the guards in the warden's could go out like inmates. Everybody would just watch him. Hit and one time. My GRANDPA went out to watch him hit while he is eating his lunch and gates hits all the way over the mess hall as a really long way and the inmates go nuts yelling and cussing at Gates. Kenny's like off in this fire. So he goes over and they're like we're not mad him. That was our last ball. Got Five balls really popular. But he got signed by the Detroit Tigers while he was in jail Yeah he got. Signed went out Played for the back released Play for the Tigers for you know years. He has three American league records to this day and he was the nineteen sixty eight world series championship team. Uh feels like a movie right there. Yeah right so you mentioned earlier that some people come in with ghost hunting equipment that kind of stuff or they bring in a lot of them. Were going different things so video cameras flashlights. They'll have K. Two meters a whole bunch of stuff L. K. Two meters the one that shows the energy level of of the apparition or whatever and a lot of people. Sometimes we'll have feelings whether that's in their house or whatever they know we go. They know a lot of people here have experienced with it. So they'll come in almost kind of trying to figure out if it's real or non so they come here and we have a lot of tour guides. We have friends family. They'll come here. I don't believe it. I'm leaving work here for a little bit. They changed their mind pretty quick. It's amazing there's a there's a venue in Milwaukee. It's called the eagles ballroom and that's another place that is apparently haunted. And if you go into the basement there's like a the the water hot water heater used to be a pool down there. That's drained now. Apparently some kids drowned in the pool. And it's haunted when you go down into that basement you can feel something's not right like it's harder saw down those. It's really really creepy. Because I find you know because I've had a couple experiences myself when you are surrounded by that energy it doesn't feel right. Yeah as an animal is a mammal like you know like I gotta get the hell out of here. Haida right exactly you know. And that's why when people don't bring the don't believe it. It's like when you feel it. Something's going on in our I mean. Yeah there's there's a different vibe to it so when you're talking about some of these inmates in this sort things like what kind of like the worst of the worst. Do we know some of the crimes of these? These guys committed or It was anything from armed robbery to murder to anything that you can really think of There were guys that were in there for small stuff committed murder while they were in prison. And then just kind of got sentence. Your sentences build on top of each other But do you know of any other any of the worst of the worst at the ETO. Sr worst of the worst first thing that comes to mind is Frank hangers murder. I don't know much about the inmate but that's one of our most famous. A ghost stories is actually solitary confinement. A guard by the name of Frank. Hanger got a bludgeoned to death by by an inmate who got out of his solitary cell. Inmate was probably one of the worst of the worst since he murdered a guard or a Robert Daniels and John West so they were two inmates. That met down. They got paroled met down in Columbus and then to get revenge on one specific guard at Os are and so they came back up to Mansfield. Start HITTING THE BOTTLE. Gallo but too drunk couldn't figure out which house was his and Red Cross away. We had a honors farm so they ended up at the Superintendent of the honors Farmhouse. Say took him his daughter and his wife took him out Down the street from here to Cornfield. Shot them all dead And then it was like a four week total and complete crime spree ended in a shootout at the Ohio. Indiana line And then John. Wes was killed in the shootout. Robert Daniels was taken into custody. Digging into Ohio Penn which was the Max prison in Columbus and was executed in the electric chair. But here's a really cool part at least for me. It is but that chair that he was electrocuted in is now back here at the Ohio state. Reformatory where he met his. Buddy lured all started like hundred yards. Reasserts back it's interesting so what you're saying. Is they got out together? And then what did they wait outside for? The I'd get off work or something. Just kidnap them and put them in there. What year was this This was in nineteen forty eight. I believe if it wasn't forty. Eight is Jeff Flynn's crazy times back. Then you know what I mean like to think. Everybody's overly sensitive about everything nowadays back. Then they're putting people in holes in your shooting guards executing guards in in cornfields or whatever. Maybe it's a different time like that prison. Now you could not. You couldn't have it up and running. No never you like just like I said just going in there and seeing it has it deteriorated is that it looked like twenty years or thirty years ago. I mean it's definitely deteriorated. I hear inmates. That'll come back from the eighties close in nineteen ninety out here. Inmates say that it was so bad even in the eighties that rats were coming out of the toilets and it was just horrible while the prison was still open. Oh Yeah Oh my gosh. Yeah what's when you talk to? What your great grandfather you know. And and and this is a family stories of things that that great grandfather saw or grandmother. I know a lot of stories from my grandmother. She still alive. She's eighty one Her whole houses may whole house decorated with inmate. Artwork armor artwork artwork artwork so and she's so desensitized to the whole thing like ask. Hey where did this painting? I'm Muslim? Prisoner made it for me. Was the import murder and then just kind of often do something else. Louis Grandma whatever. She a guard now she so. She started out as a secretary to the Assistant Superintendent and then she started Ray Reading the rule book in realized that she would get paid more if she was a certified typist and she was a single mother at this time. Raising four kids. She divorced her husband warned. Divorce really wasn't a thing in the early sixties and so she drove herself tune from Columbus. Got Certified And then she realized that we didn't have sex offender classes. Because you have sex hundreds of expert classes and she goes off teacher so she taught three tiers of and then ended up. Being a caseworker. By the time that she moved out of the prison yet customers. Would she tell you? Oh Gosh she has this story of This guy that lived on her range where her office was she was. He was a couple cells down. I can't remember his name but he was drunk all the time all the time. He made prison hooch. So you put fruit in your trash bag and then let it ferment. And so she always knew that there needed to be a shakedown her whole office with filled with fruit flies so she made she made buddies with this. She thought he was hilarious. Getting drunk all the time in time. She brought him a newspaper. He's from West Virginia in my family from West Virginia so we had a family reunion straw breath. Newspaper chose you thought I gave him gold bars and he was really really drunk and he started leaning up against the bars was going. Judy Shaves GonNa marry you when I get. Outta here so she thought he was half but did she ever see anything. Ghostly at all my grandmother knew okay now in my grandma hasn't hasn't seen anything but she also has never been here at night and spill long time since she's been here There there's a cluster of houses across the street. That's where my whole family lived so we lived right across the street from Osr and they had some weird stuff in their house but the house. O'CONNELL bleeding. Yeah yeah something like that. Yeah what about your father? My Dad His experiences He's had a lot of videos of orbs orbs with him So Lake Zoe was saying or are most common things. Right so we see a lot of orbs which are basically just little white circles in pictures and the weird thing about those is a lot of people. Try and debunk them by saying that. It's just reflection of light. But there's in one infamous room in our in our prison. The chair room. It's one of most paranormal active rooms in the building There are no windows in the in the room at night. There is absolutely no natural light. In that room I have seen more photos of orbs in that room than any other room in the building which doesn't make any sense because there is no reflective light no source of light. It just doesn't make sense for there'd be in ORB in those rooms and technology has really helped us in the last couple of years. Because with with iphones now you can do like the live photos. Where if you touch and hold it down in that and it's kind of cool for us because you know years years ago you could look at a photo and be like okay. That's an or but is it. Is it just dust or whatever but in the photos that we get shown if you push the live button you can see it fly and kind of you know expand and contract and do sort stuff like that Dad's had more experience with orbs He has people that take videos of him. While he's doing his tour and our orbs it will go inside his head for a while and then come back on the other side we joke. It means that there's just nothing in there that lost but like come around his legs go around. Whatever the what does he feel anything on these orbs go inside his No not that. He not that he knows of But the only thing. He's really gotten creeped out about his closet. That's the one that he and he's gotten orbs in that closet as well. People take photos videos of him and you can see them blue orbs around his feet and in his head and whatever. He gets goosebumps in office. Heads the hairs on his next stand up because obviously no no about this. Louis Time orbs explain what you think orbs might be or what's the scientific or the or the paranormal explanation I just think they might be a sign of spirit in the area that I mean. I think it's pretty. It has to be a pretty strong Spirit to form a full body apparitions. So I'm just thinking that maybe the orbs are a little less aggressive spirit. A little less obvious like just less strong they might just be just kind of hanging out or they might just be. You know quite around you see like in the movies or cartoons like a ghost is like a guy with the candidate the sheet maybe. This is the real ghosts. Looks like we're expecting to see Casper. But it's really balls of energy orbs right. I was kind of imagined. It LIKE DRACULA DRACULA GOES from point. A. To Point B. as a bat. I was magic. That that's the way that goes to it. I mean I don't know if anybody here's my finisher but I always figured you know they just kind of whoop into into an ORB. Go to point and point being then maybe they can manifest themselves into a larger more solid apparition. What do you think what's always been interesting to me? Is People that try to believe that. The paranormal doesn't exist that things like that. I've always told them. There's definitely an energy here. I think you feel that whether it's day whether it's night walking through here and I think sometimes that some of that what you feel whether that is the oral or whatever I think. There is definitely no doubt the paranormal exists. Here when you think about all these men that died here and things that happen to them we actually have a former inmate. Whose tour guide here. So he actually doesn't inmate tour and he was here. Nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy. He one hundred percent believes of this place really. Oh Yeah. So what's what's his explanations? Or what's the stories so one of the big things for him now? Is You know Frank Hanger and all these stories and things like that and he was the the guard the guard. Yeah Solitary Gotcha Gotcha. Yeah and I think the thing why I've done a lot of walk. Throughs with him and interviews and things like that we've done. I think he holds a connection to the inmates. I think sometimes the inmates don't want to interact with somebody if they think that it's a joke or they're just trying to push me or do something like that but the way he talks to them and interactions he can get them to put a flashlight and he can get him to light it up and I've never seen anybody be able to do the stuff that he can do. He'll put a flashlight down and somebody could go for two hours. Then he goes in there and says you know. Tell me if you're here boom right on. I mean it's crazy stuff. I've never seen anywhere else is possible that maybe the spirits like you said they Relate to him because he was yeah for as a prisoner not one of the suits or one of the absolute because I think sometimes prisoners WanNa talk to somebody who's maybe Police officers to the COPS. Absolutely your guy so that it's very interesting because I think depend on who you are and your background. I think they can feel that understand because a lot of people have different reactions to stuff. It's really a personal basis crazy thing. You mentioned the energy because done a couple of paranormal shows for the travel channel. Okay we're on different places and one of them's called Bridgewater Triangle which is kind of in the Boston area. New England bottom line is there was. There was a big war king. David's war were like five thousand Indians Native Americans and call and columnists Pilgrim's those guys were killed and you go to this area and this is the most haunted area in America. Whatever but just vibe to it because you know that lots of people died sure here and as soon as you go there you can feel something is not right and even say go into the prison. It was the middle of the day. And there's so many people around supper just going in there. It's not hard to. Oh yeah feel What what what what it is. It's an ugly place. Yeah you know We went and other places. We went to New Orleans. In the in the in the swamps of New Orleans where There was this hurricane that was apparently caused by a voodoo priestess. Were like fifty people died. We went to like the area with the supposedly that buried and the ghost guys had the was called the K. K. three-meter Ketu KETU later. This is one better a K. Three they they had it and and these guys listen. You can tell. They're legit like just like done guys and super intuit Nerdy and we went to try and find some these ghosts get some activity and I had Michetti because we're in by US and I was cutting down some of the vines in the branches stuck the shedding the ground do little thing though the K. to The give it tipper pointed at me it goes super green all the way across the board while and you just they were like freaking out. We've never seen this. I'm like giving this thing like button on a depressing yono point of the sky. Nothing this guy. This guy point myself green and it kept going on. It was really freaky and I started feeling like I just come off a roller coaster like my insides shaken up like some grabbing switch and you can feel like like. I said something's not right like I don't like this anymore even said of the director like. I don't want to do this man. Yeah I WANNA end this and it was on my arm point it right on my arm right there and I thought okay I have a metal plate Meyer. Maybe it's the metal pointed other things have metal nothing anyway I finally pulled the machete out of the ground and it stopped and I was wondering maybe when I put the machete in the ground it you know maybe the spirits that were. Maybe maybe it's disrespect. Make you feel it getting poked with a absolutely needle or something but that feeling that. I had its pro same feeling that you were talking about where you know. Something is a right and you can go. Why don't believe any of this okay but you believe the way that you internally feel. Oh yeah you know. You can just suddenly like get nauseous. Whatever's for no reason? It's not nauseous. It's another never had before. If you believe in it us totally know that something went down. And the moment you know I- righted the wrong of whatever it was did the kind of went away. I still got cleansed after by the voodoo spirits. Home with you know because then you get told the thing with the attachments and all these other things right but yeah you know the difference. We feel that absolutely and for me at least I really I really get what you're saying because unlike unlike Elaine on I'm like most of my coworkers I haven't had a legitimate experience at the prison but I am one hundred percent of believer. Because it's like you said like you feel that energy in the you definitely definitely felt like spiritual energy around me. I've just never seen like like an apparition or anything. Cool like that but I definitely felt that energy. Let's talk about what made you guys want to come work at the prison. Even though he knows it's haunted but before we do say thanks to a direct provider vehicle protection plans that saved drivers thousands of dollars on auto repairs. 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And even find you a hotel room if you're away from home and if you endurance now dot com slash Jericho you'll get three hundred dollars off. That's a special deal for just sexy. Beast talk is Jericho listeners. Go to endurance now dot COM SLASH. Jericho saved three hundred bucks insurance. Plus endurance equals total protection. Home made you decide to want to come. Work at the prison is kind of cool job to have if you live in there. Yeah I a friend kind of hooked up. So what are you guys official job just generators and under a ghost tour guys? So I'm a tour guide and then I'm also a marketing intern here so I work under Dan. Desma voss from the associate director. So I help with like Planning the paranormal programs events fundraising kind of everything. We do. How to your marketing publicity. So a lot of cool hats make movies get to be part of all that music video so it's a fun gig for sure music filter. We actually did one God smack. Who's coming here tomorrow? They actually had a music video here a long time ago. But just a country artist Eric Church. We shot a music or movie here two years ago with Stallone Day Batista so that just came in front of me. Yes which one is that. It's called escape. Plan the extractors. Yeah Yeah so. It just came out at target all that to buy. Yeah he was here so huge fight scenes in the prison all that so we got to hang out with him and show them around something guy. Oh yeah he's a great time so you have to check it out because now you all the places that he was in the. Yeah so that just came out last week. I've been a dose in for the past two years dosen't so I basically just like walk around answer questions and you make sure people don't get lost on the tours the docent museum doses of people have been lost in there especially on the beyond the bars tour when we take people into places that are off the tour route. Sometimes people will. That aren't on. The tour will come in and you'll have to chase amount or a people who are on the tour will stop and take pictures and then like lose the group you know so. That's kind of what my job but was doses job family never been found a pile of bones somewhere. We'll find him about got down to the shower. I was like man. We're looking a little light. Then I counted everybody up. Lost a whole family annoyed. You how I lost them. They just want it off eventually reappeared. Yeah they had. They had walked off in Stoltze. Zoe took their stuff off and was like we're done a lot of people come through every night or you have certain days of the week weekends. Mostly our busiest in like throughout the summer. We're just crazy busy seven days a week from four and yeah we're crazy busy. We can do about a thousand people today in the summer. So it's awesome when you guys do for Halloween. We actually have. We turn the whole place in a haunted house for six weeks and You know can be creepy enough on its own. There's actually a lot of the hot actors who have worked in places like solitaire. Confinement the work there for a week or two and say I got to get out of here. I can't breathe and like actually how things happen. Yeah yeah they're trying to scare people and then they're having paranormal stuff. This is it's a haunted house. You just opened the doors. Shut the lights off right. Yeah but that's really popular too so we do probably forty to fifty thousand people for Halloween. Wow So let's is wind down here a little bit about Shawshank redemption. Because I just saw that about six months ago I'd seen it a lot of such one of the best movies ever. Was there things that happened even just related to the movie? That was cool. How did they find this place along with therefore yeah? I know there was somebody that worked for the Ohio Film Commission and they knew that they were trying to shoot the movie in Ohio so I think they connected. Say Hey come check out a prison. Basically they had the entire run of everything. Do whatever you want to it so. I don't think there's a lot of prisons that you can go into and just take over you know full control and drilling or whatever you want. Do whatever you want and I think yeah I mean when you pull up to this place. I mean it's just so iconic I mean it looks like a castle and there's just there's really not a lot of places like this and I think that was one of the things bright out sell it to especially since it's it's was close so you said you're not going to disrupt anything absolutely actually have the Shawshank twenty fifth anniversary this year so next month. Where a big celebration? Getting a lot of the actors back and do a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah Oh that's cool Powell's Cuny's yeah. Oh Yeah is interesting because like I said it's it's it's when you go in there and see some of those things like I said the it's funny when you get a big around the worms but it's the same one right. Sure it's really cool. I think for people because they love that movie and so iconic to people for them to be able to come experience it because a lot of places their SATs. They tear them down. Yeah so the fact that it's still a lot of it is intact and you can walk same halls in the same place as they did. I think that's an incredible thing to be able to offer to people what I always say on. My tourist is like the best part of about being at Shawshank. Prison is going back home and re watching the movie. Because you get that on though. It's a different experience to watch the movie at home and never have been there and then tour and you get to re watch the movie. You're like okay. I was there okay. That looks familiar. Whatever and then it's even better if you get to come back and kind of retrace your steps as drive my mom crazy. She won't Watch shake with DAD and myself anymore. Because we rewind and do all sorts of watching a movie with a super you guys positively did you know I actually didn't see the Shawshank redemption until after I started working here so I knew all the trivia all the facts as I was watching and I was like. Hey look at that. That's crazy we get people from all over the world to come here because of just loves Shawshank so much so it's really cool thing offer to people equally said that they come back and wonder if Tom Hanks with comeback or Tim Robbins or whatever that's been robbins. He had Morgan Freeman. Yeah I got a mixed evergreen mile but yeah I mean we're hoping so some of the actors coming back the warden and a lot of the you know other people. But we're trying to still get Tim and Morgan. And so it's GonNa be cool. It's intriguing that once again that your fourth generation did you always like no. I grow up. I WANNA work at the prison zoo. I didn't I I was looking for a summer job. I had no idea. I mean that that they really did the tours at the scale that we do I saw that they had a job posting at a Coffee House in Mansfield and those that sounds fun. I like to talk so I apply for the job in. I got here in it. Just it felt like home. It really did and it was. It was really great for me because my grandma's my last grandparent so I get to have those special moments where her where we sit down. Yes it down talk about. Osr GRANDPA's gone so we get to. She gets to take out his staff and we get to have that connection and Just recently she gave me his sergeant's badge from from when he was here and she was like the all you eat. Breathe and sleep. Os Are. I think you ought to have this. That's kind of cool. Reveal what's your. What's your favorite part of the of the prison? My favorite part of the prison or honest food parts I. I'm super into the paranormal stuff. I really liked the west Attic. That's one of our paranormal hotspots. In on it was basically this room. It was used as overflow hospital correct. And they're still like hospital beds set up and they're like original hospital beds and it's super creepy. There's like access to the attic on both sides which is like a higher like the next level attic which is pretty sweet. So that's probably my favorite spot. Would you I don't know that I have a favorite. I think the cellblocks are really cool to have just because there's not a lot of places like that that are left and I think that's really cool for everything for tours from the actual prison cell. Yeah I think so and just to give people the Opportunity. I think for paranormal and things like that. It's just crazy. You can walk in there and I just don't have a feeling like that everywhere just the scale of seen all of that and You know some of it is obviously very sad to think about all the people being in there but I think the ability to just kind of keep that moment in time a little bit because when you walk in there I don't know you just have you feel it. You feel the energy you feel kind of everything that's happened there and I think it's just it's probably like I said because I was filming something for access. Tv with the guy called Eddie Trunk and the first time I went in there. We're on camera. Walk into the Cell Eddie walks in the cell to like I said like dude. Can you imagine the two of us have known for twenty years? She added if we were cellmates. There's no word no like I said I was at a little prison time for like a couple of days. Which drove me crazy. Can you imagine having a year no small area? I mean that to me just going in that your mind the paranormal aspect of it share it just really really like makes you. Never WanNa do anything wrong absolutely. I have to one of 'EM I like to go to my grandmother's old office on the Cell Block Because on the walls she put stencils up on the walls to make her office feel a little bit more home yet. They're still there so I like to go in there and then I love to go to the Guard Tower Guard Tower Guard so We have pretty much one guard tower. That that is sturdy enough to actually go up You go up a wrought. Iron SPIRAL STAIRCASE. What feels like forever. And then once you get up to the top you can see pretty much all of Mansfield from up there. You can see the prisons behind us down the hill on. That is where the guards would sit up there and make sure that nobody escaped and they're still a toilet and still stove and all sorts of stuff up their courtyard. Obviously that's like you see in the movie. That's the Clinton so that part of him. Yes so the All of our outbuildings So our yard was fifteen acres all the way back and it's all gone The twenty five foot walls gone as well. They tore all of that down in nineteen ninety four to build the new facility directly behind us. I mean what's right up against us? They stole it from us. It had to happen and they were going to see what I was. GonNa tear down the main building as well but just didn't get around to it. Thank goodness you're never gonNA see another prison like this again. I don't even know if there's any other prisons in these states that are still open. Alcatraz is not Oakland civil example. I can think of and facilitate his. I mean I think pretty much these style result across the country or shut down your last question for you was the scariest story that you've heard or her from the prison. Then this they have to be ghostly violent or scary or something like that okay so We had a barber shop at the reformatory. We're full bad ideas. One of them's barbershop. Eight and so this barbershop Inmates could cut other inmates hair. They could also give other inmates shaves and so grandfather was at on his post in the in the Gar- barbershop and he looks over just at the same moment that an another inmate took his opportunity and cut the other inmates throat that he was given to shave too. Yep All the way back. They were they practicing to be. Barbara's or something yeah they could. They could practice and train and then they would be open to the public. So let's say that like you were coming to visit me in prison and you thought. Hey what the heck. I'll get haircut. You could get cut by an inmate and they were just training. Just one on one and GRANDPA's set. My GRANDPA was a veteran and he says the darndest thing he goes. It went all the way back nearly decapitated him. He got up to run like with the injury. Got Up to run just kind of blood out. Wow and then after that. We didn't do barbershop anymore. Those kind of like me. We shouldn't straight razors do criminal. Wow you guys got one. I don't have the scary story but I haven't escaped story so we actually had a shoe factory and the inmates were given jobs to kind of get get a trade and you know. Y- when they went out back onto the society they had like a skill or a trade to the good make money and we had one inmate who decided he was going to escape out of prison so he put himself into a box and he got into like the shipping area and he felt the car and he was like. Oh I'm home free like I'm out of here. And he felt the car stop and he waited for a bit and he was like all right. I'M GONNA wait. Make sure that everyone's gone and he got. He gets out of the box and he finds himself at the Ohio State Penitentiary in Columbus at the time with a worst prison so he basically went from like kind of a medium security facility to a maximum security facility and they called the ward in our prison and they were like so. Do you want this guy back or what we are warning was like? Now you can keep it. He just stayed there that right and free. Probably the story that I tell the most is I used to be. I think a little bit when I started skeptical. Paranormal existed or not and I can remember opening the route one time and the lights for the building and things like that and I heard screaming as by the chapel and it sounded like somebody that had got stabbed or something like that and there was nobody in the building so I have the cameras on my phone so I could see the parking lot all that ran down to make sure nobody was here. I thought well maybe it's the wind or sometimes we get pigeons in the building. You know we got broken windows still at the top and I've never heard something like that again and clear as day somebody screaming so that was pretty crazy and that was like nine thirty in the morning so yeah it wasn't night or anything like that and that and it was loud. I mean it took the whole areas. That was crazy goes got early. I guess I guess I was a believer after that. Let me tell you guys. Thank you so much. It was super strong early. And if you want it if I wanted to shave and I'm not gonNA.

Ohio Dan Zoe America Ohio State Reformatory prison Eric Church murder Milwaukee Shawshank Redemption Columbus Shawshank Jericho Mansfield Tim Robbins US official Frank Hanger Wisconsin Lancaster Johnson City
Stop Doubting And Start Doing

The Ken Coleman Show

41:19 min | 1 year ago

Stop Doubting And Start Doing

"Hey, podcasters. Thanks for diving in with us today really excited about you hearing Marty's. Call pay attention to this question. I don't have to work, but I know I want to help me figure out what it is. Listen in, as we answer that question. And more all of it starts right now. Coming to you from Nashville. The music city you're joining the conversation about who you are what you were created to do where you want to be, and how you can get there. It's all about you. Welcome aboard eight four four seven four seven two five seven seven is the number feta jump in some of the out. They're tired showing up on Monday for another grind Yikes. Seventy percent of Americans unhappy in their work. The average Americans spend ninety thousand plus hours at work every week, excuse me in their life could heavens ninety thousand our week who boy that made some of you drive off the road. I apologize. Please tell the traffic officer was my fault. I put a horror story in your ear ninety thousand plus hours over your lifetime. In other words, he said, the majority of our life, working shouldn't we be doing something that we love something that means something to us? I think the answer's yes, let's see if we can help you figure out what that is, or if you know what it is figure out how to get there. Eight four four seven four seven two five seven seven, you can also Email your question to the show. Ask Ken Coleman dot com. Be brief and very detailed so that I can answer it via Email on the show because I don't have the opportunity to ask you questions. We go to an who's on the line in old, Lyme, Connecticut. Hope I said that. Right. And you're on the Ken Coleman show. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call on a big fan. Oh, thank you. I'm currently in the military. I'm an officer in the military, and I will be retiring in over a year after serving twenty years. Oh, I'm listening to your show for a few months, and I've gotten your book and I want to use your book and, and use the proximity principle. But I'm stuck in the discovery phase. Oh, great. That's exciting. So you're trying to figure out what's my next step after retiring exactly my next chapter in my life. He I want to say thank you for your service. You are a great American and I can tell you that everybody on the Ken Coleman show appreciate you for what you've done. Thank you, sir. So how soon is retirement? What's the date it's going to be the beginning of twenty twenty one? Oh, gosh goods. You're way ahead of the game. This is really exciting. And so I want you to ex- hail because you've got time to pull this off, whatever this is. So you you've bought the book, and so that's for people who know where they want to go. You know, my formula, we're going to look at your top talents and your top passions. So tell me what did best. So the tough thing that I listed for skills was a good communicator, and I'm a natural leader. I just I take charge of the situation. I have good time management skills, very political and I'm good with details. Awesome fantastic. That is really, really good. We can see a lot of clues, I think coming out of this in a moment. Now, let's just talk about work roles functions task that you enjoy doing, you have a twenty year military career so you can draw on that, and you can draw on other things. But what do you think would just make your heart come alive? If you did this all day. I think so. Leadership has been also a passion of mine. I've books countless books on it. It's something. I've got an extra training in. I love it. I also love solving problems. If people come to me with the problem or need. I love to figure out a solution and make it happen. Also, I'm I'm big into safety at sea. So I'm in the coastguard is the branch that I'm in. So one of my biggest passions is, is just safety at sea. Okay, good. No. When you're solving problems look kind of problems. Are they the ones you enjoy the most are they people problems organizational problems technical problems of curious technical, usually, it's technical problems? Okay. Give me an example of something that you go. Oh my gosh. Kim. If I did this this, this. And this, I was solving this kind of technical problem all day long. I would I would lose my mind in a good one. Yeah. I think you know, in the coast guard we are. Limited in budget and resources. So I love trying to figure out how to. Help us to our job better with, with those limitations, sometimes tech show at sometimes throwing some cheap technology or just thinking, how process wise how to do something a little better helps. All right. Fun exercise right now, an okay, no pressure. You don't even have to tell me how you would make this happen. Let me do that. But, but I just want you to blurt out what it is that you think would be fun to try coming out of the military. So let's fast forward right now to twenty twenty one and you just get to try something, we're gonna pay you. We're going to try it for two weeks risk free. And you get to get you to say, I think I want to do this in the private sector based on what you've already told me. What do you think that would be say it? Well, I mean, we'll make money. But I I love they do safety at sea seminars across like around the country. I would love to do that. I, I have the street credit for it, if you will. But I just don't know there's money in that order affect my wait. Now, wait a second. So what what's happening there when you're, you know, so where, where we're be places that would do some type of I think it's going to be hard to make really good money to teaching safety at CNN hype seminars. But is there a role where you move into the private sector and you take your knowledge of being safe on the water, I in and you can apply it into the private sector? So is it is it is it training classes for people that are learning how to, to, to, to pilot boats for private sector companies? I'm just brainstorming right now. But DC where my head's going. Yeah. IBM especially research. I know they do safety at sea seminars at yacht clubs at boat shows, things like that. But also have like certification courses dad's what I'm talking about. I think that's gonna pay I think you've got more of a full time opportunity. If you're involved in training, people in some type of nautical, prowess, let me, just call that for lack of a better phrase, okay, because that is, that's at least in your wheelhouse. Now what I'm surprised at is that you didn't say something about technology? I'm very surprised. Did that. I mean, I guess I don't know how to mesh. Ali, and we're all I, I don't know much about the civilian where my whole life has been in the wait a second. Wait a second way way way way. But see that's where you're thinking too much. And we I, I had this conversation with a lot of veterans they think that what they have done in the in the military is not transferable, which is silly. You fix things on Technic of a technical nature all the time. So lonely test, you one more time and I'm not trying to force you into this. But I there's just too many clues here. You yourself said you love solving technical problems? So forget qualifications. And forget, how you fit in, because you do, and you are qualified, there might be some additional qualification. But nothing of a major, major level. What would you like to do? What would you be fixing technical problems? Do you like what would you see yourself? Go. Oh, well, I I'm actually currently at a research development center, where we evaluate emerging technology. I absolutely love that. Okay. I'm to see how it into the coastguard so, so. And are you tracking with me now you? You just think that like there's two separate worlds in while they are different environments, the skill set. And the function is extremely transferable to the private sector and what you're doing right now that you love all day, every day, I would add that to the list of Khuju make a nice living. Training people on nautical prowess? My phrase now. Cheers. Okay. So we have two things that you need to be looking into. And so now you need to do the research you love research you need to do research. You need to look into it. So how could I take what I'm doing all day, every day, right now research and development. And how can I what are the ways that that transfers how you find the answer to that? And you start asking people. Hey, what do you know about this? How would this translate into the private sector? It's not a secret. You're, you're, you're you're sitting around with men and women that are thinking a lot of the same things who you know, one of those roles in your area, people that are doing that type of work use the proximity principle get around people that are doing what you wanna do. Get in places where what you wanna do is happening and I wrote a whole book on it. It works. Okay. And again, I'm giving away books for free today and you're going to get a copy of the proximity principle. My number one bestselling book just came out a month ago, I want you to read it and use it. Because we've identified two things that you're very intrigued by. So let's get in proximity to people that are doing those things. Let's get in proximity where those kind of things are happening. And we begin to ask questions, and so the right people, plus the right places equals opportunity. That's the formula proximity and everybody else. Positions me where I need to be, and propels me to where I wanna be. So you're looking two years from, now to make that nice little transition out of the military in the private sector proximity is your best friend right now. It's going to open up all kinds of opportunity for you. Speaking of which liberty university. Let's take an for example. So an might need to get some technology requirements and qualifications. Maybe some certifications, while she's in the military, or when she steps out liberty university, and their online education program. Such a good fit for people like Anna, maybe you why. Well, because they're tuition's low, they frozen at, and they are helping people all around the world seven hundred plus degree programs, including that certification all the way up to a doctorate. And because they're online, it allows you flexibility based on your financial situation. What's your budget? I can only afford one class at a time. Great. Get started. It's momentum. Well, can I schedule is? I don't know how many hours I could carry great call and tell them. In fact, do one better. Go to liberty dot EDU slash kin and learn more about the program, and while you're there, enter to win a five thousand dollar scholarships. They're given four of those away this summer. So to enter to win. Go to liberty dot EDU slash Ken, give them a call talk to him. Tell him I told you that they can help you with the answers that you need, and they can, so go now liberty dot EDU slash Ken. Don't go anywhere. The phones are lighting up people want help, and we're gonna give it to them. This is the Ken Coleman show. Hey, folks older, the number one things I hear from you on social media and on the air is Ken. I just don't know where to look you know, you need a job. You know, you want the job, but you don't know where to look, and it's terrifying when we don't know what if you had your own personal recruiter to help you find that job. Now, folks, my friends, ZipRecruiter have the technology that takes the fear and all the trouble at a looking in the right places. If you download ZipRecruiter job search app, let it know what kind of jobs, you're interested in and the technology, ZipRecruiter starts doing the work. The super cooter app helps you find what you want. Put your profile in front of those employees who are looking for someone like you. And if that employer likes your profile ZipRecruiter will let you know, so that if you're interested you can now apply. No wonder ZipRecruiter's the number one rated job search app, download the free ZipRecruiter job search app today and let the power of technology work for you. The sooner you download the free, ZipRecruiter job search up the sooner you'll. Find your dream job. Welcome back, America. This is the Ken Coleman show thrilled to have you with us. Eight four four seven four seven two five seven seven we got a couple of social questions to get to here today. This is fun, by the way, if you want to connect with us on social media, at Ken Coleman on Instagram at Ken Coleman on Twitter and Facebook, Ken Coleman show, is what you're searching for their. Oh, by the way, we're on YouTube YouTube channel growing. So go check that out. Alright William writes in. On social media on Twitter. How do you keep your motivation when you feel burned out there? It is again Joe the old burned out. Diagnosis. Well William, I have very strong thoughts on this gonna keep them short and succinct today, there's no such thing as burn out. So I know what you're feeling is real. But the burn out is the wrong way to say it. Because if you were burned out, you'd be dead. That's when the flame is extinguished, and we move on into a turn ity. So what's really going out? Are we burned out as the flame gone? No, the flames and covered up. Like heavy blankets are sandbags you picked the analogy there's build up on your heart, so you need to ask yourself. What's causing the buildup? Is it no connection to the work? No passion for it. No, meaning is it difficult people a toxic work environment. Difficult leader. Is it that you're overwhelmed? You drinking from a fire hydrant you feel like you're just trying to not drown every day. Do you feel bore? No challenge. Defender appreciated. Nobody notices me. Nobody predates me. Why am I here? Those are the five major reasons for buildup. So whether those of the one of those are multiple, those are what's going on with you. William. Or there's another reason you gotta identify why am I feeling this way? Not. What am I feeling why am I feeling is what's making me feel this way? And when we identify that let's solve that you aren't burned out. We got to solve the cause of the symptoms. But words matter, stop saying that you burned out, folks. You're not burned out. Yourself 'ring build up. up. What do we want to go to here? Marcus on Instagram. How do I pinpoint what career to look into fits my strong suits, instead of just taking the first job that gets thrown my way. Well, part of the answer is in your own question, don't take the first job. He gets thrown your way, only take the first job that comes your way, if it is, in fact, in your sweet spot, which is at the intersection of what you do best in what you love to do. Most start writing this stuff down. Write down, what you do. Best top talent skills and strings, then right down the type of work. The function, the tasks the role who do you love to help? How do you love to help him? What solutions you get fired up about write these things down? Vincit down a look at how you can use the things on that talent list to do the things that you get fired up about all of a sudden. Oh, I see. And by the way, this is a nice construct, not just for discovery, but also for making sure you don't take the right, excuse me. The wrong thing. So again, thanks for the questions on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube Ken Coleman dot com is the website if you want to connect with us on any of those social platforms, all those are there and we would love for you to connect with us. Eight four four seven four seven two five seven seven let's go to Jennifer, who's on the line in Johnson city, Tennessee, Jennifer, you're on the Ken Coleman show. Hey, ken? Thanks so much for your time. Sure. How can I help? So I listening to you just a minute ago. I think my biggest question is a need direction on how to find my sweet spot when I'm a Jack of all trades, and a don't wanna create an Ishmael job interesting. Well, the, the answer is just what I just always six. We're going to have to do this with you. And we're going to show people, we're going to show you, there's something on that list of passions that really calls to you in really makes you come alive. And the jack-of-all-trades is a is a old colloquialism that describes somebody who's really good at a lot of things. But I would still say that even though you might be good at a lot of things there's probably two or three things or four things that you just really really, really good at. And that's what we have to focus on because it's not just talent alone. It's talent and passion. That's the formula. So Jennifer, let's get to it. What do you know about yourself? Tell me your top skills, and talents. So I'm passionate about to stop. Stop stop, stop you immediately went to passion. I want you to tell me what you really good at doing skills, subject matters things that people compliment you on because you're really good at. I would say directing seem the big picture delegating. Getting it done. That's leadership. You just described a good leader. In pain. Hold on a us. How do you not see that you that's a first time? Or maybe one of the few times in your life. You've been called a leader and you didn't know what to do with that. Well, it's not it's not that it's what is it? How do you monetize? Ties ownership. Well, but Jennifer, you're getting way ahead of the process. You're thinking way too hard and way too fast. You're trying to do this for yourself. And you can't. That's why you called me. So you have to let me lead, you so, stop at learn thank you start answering, and stop thinking, he ready. Okay. All right. Keep going besides directing delegating. Getting stuff done which I call leadership. What else what are the things that you do? Really, really well. I listen well. Okay. What else I think I'm. I think I'm running out, though. You know, you're not if I talked to the people that know you best what would they say, Jennifer Jennifer's really good at this? I think speaking 'cause you communicate in public in some type of public meeting, or that you've got a background attract record of doing this, right. Okay. Britain, it's, it's maybe background. But it's a background. That's okay. But but you're being honest about what you do. Well now now let's talk about what you love to do because because I think there's lots of ideas in your head and you can't find a pattern. And that's what we're going to do right now. Tell me what you think it is that you love to do when you're doing this task or in a role like this. You feel the juice you love, you look forward to it, and you'll love it in the middle of it. I love I love speaking. I love speaking for the purpose of motivating someone, I love recently, I've gotten us out hustle with my dad. I love working with my hands, which is totally not the same thing, but I like the fulfilment of creating something. Okay. What are you? What are you doing? What are you creating with your hands? So with my dad, it's, it's little small household, construction jobs. I like painting, not necessarily like a canvas. But an area just sort of thing it all come to life, I like probably creating indeed. So what is it? That's where's the problem? Yeah. Do I create something to fix it? And now that it's fixed. I wanna move on out the problem. Let me ask you this. What do you do right now? And how much money you make. So currently I am what they're calling a business analyst. So it's a fancy title for AP and a or, and I make about fifty sixty thousand dollars just for fun. I'm gonna hit you is something I want you to not think I want to solve all the reasons why can't I want us react, okay? What happens if you could make sixty thousand dollars on your own for yourself or for your dad, and you're doing remodels and Renos, and that kind of stuff and allowing yourself to actually be creative from a carpentry or a fixer upper situation painting, making it look better taking something that didn't look good, and making great or creating something from nothing like doing a whole new edition to something or, or whatever because that's creativity. What if I could give you sixty or more doing that kind of thing, and you are leading a crew eventually of subs? I think I would like the idea. I think my only drawback is where this is new. I don't know if that's an Ishmail. I think that's my that's what does that mean. So like Abraham had Ishmail. He created him on his own. He didn't wait in wait for God to give him his promise zone. I know I know what you mean. But I'm saying why do you think that what do you feel like God needs to like come through a white through the roof and tell you that, that's what you're supposed to do? Man. It'd be nice if he no he and that's not how it works. I think my biggest issue is the job that I'm in. I've been in for not quite two years. And I and I went to it because I was hopping out of another job that I felt like I had out, and I think in many ways I had outgrown that job I can see now kind site that maybe if I had done things differently. Maybe I wouldn't have outgrown at that level or maybe I could have had a different impact on, on, on a different level at that job. And I've learned a lot. But I think I feel like I I just jumped because I wanted freedom from that position. And so I'm scared to jump again mode to defer to something totally. You're just thinking too much. I, I gotta tell you. I think there might be smoke coming out your ears in Johnson city, Tennessee, right now, if I was in the room with you, I feel like I feel like I can hear your brain cranking, you that whole answered that whole answer. The jennifer. I'm saying this is your friend. I that whole answer was you inside your head made no sense at all makes sense to you. But to me, and everybody else listening to make any sense at all. You talked for almost sixty seconds and said nothing. Now, let me tell you why. Because you're scared out of your mind to make a change. And you're over in. It's being driven that fear is actually being driven by overthinking everything. And you want you used a bible analogy which I love, but you can't use bible analogies. If you don't have the faith to actually do something about what you actually believe, and I think you need more faith, and I'm trying to give you the, the, the answers to whether or not, it's something that you should do based on your creator and your creator has given you the talents. And the passions to actually succeed in that side business, you actually started that with your dad. And when I said, what if we just move it from side hustle, the full-time gig, you and I think I like the idea that was your actual answer. I think I like the idea instead of I think your heart was trying to say, I think that'd be pretty awesome. Or that would be awesome. Well, of course, it would be. Why, why would it be awesome? I'll tell you why. Jennifer, your answers not mine. You're a good listener. You're a good communicator. You gotta listen to a client based on a renovation project, or if you're building something from scratch, you gotta listen to the client. You've got to listen to the subcontractors for this thing to all come to fruition. You gotta have listening and communicating skills to of your top skills, you also said, directing leading getting things done. That's what a contractor does because a contractor doesn't do all the work himself. Contractors got rely on a dry wall guy, and electricity a plumber, you understand. I'm now speaking, your language, you get this, you on said you love helping people as it. How do you like to help people? Well, I, I, I like painting and fixing something looks good. That didn't look good. I like creating. Well, you know, I think you might like the idea of creating a better closet structure, or a better bathroom, configuration, or better kitchen, or maybe you'd like to create a handicap ramp for a family, who's had a loved one have a stroke recently, whatever it is. Is that something new coming at you all the time? And you're going to have to lead people and communicate. And so I just threw the idea out. And I think your heart said, yes, but you brain went. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In my right? Or my wrong. I don't mind if I'm wrong. I'm still going to be here tomorrow if I'm wrong. But I'm, I'm taking some extra time with you, because I think you're suffering from a massive lack of belief my right or wrong. No, you're right. You're right. So here's what I think you do next. I think you keep doing the side thing with dad, but get your head out of it, and get your heart in it. And go could I do this all day every day and love it? Where could this go? What do I love most about this thing with dad? Do I like dealing with the subs more or do I like dealing with the client more? Do I like being hands dirty fixing something what are the two or three things? I like most what could this look like if I help dad, for while could I've actually grow it? He pass it off to me. Could I eventually make fulltime money? These are all the things that you'll get answers to if you get in proximity, and you already are I want us to be more purposeful about it. Now. Jennifer, you know, I'm your friend, right. Are you going to do this? Oh, yeah. All right. Very good. Oh, yeah. I got notes. I love it. Go Jennifer go from time to time. I'm gonna take a little longer with callers. I make no apology. But Jennifer, somebody who really needed to get outside of her head. Some of you do too. You can over think something to Infinity. Here's a little something for social media. Here's a mini rant coming your way Madison, Joe th write this down. There. There are so many people that are too busy thinking instead of just getting busy. So many people out there that are too busy thinking instead of just getting busy. Stop thinking start doing it is in the doing that we get more clarity and more confirmation. But if you sit around coming of all the reasons why it might not work. Then you'll never get off the starting line. My favorite event in the Olympics is the one hundred meters two hundred meters love it. And for me, there's something I as a as a fan. I love sitting on the couch and I love the pre-race tension. The commentators kind of slowly work in the camera right to left. Go with me for second folks. And they talk about each of the racers, you know, and you see him and they're doing that funky finger. They kick their legs out and you see their, their muscles kind of loose, and they're getting already, and they're doing all kinds of stretches in slowly. They kind of get in the starting blocks and they're, they're checking to make sure they're starting blocked. Apparatus is in place. They're doing all this messing around. Right. And they're getting ready. And so after they work is all the way through the racers we now get close to the race. And, and you hear some sound than then everybody gets serious all the racers than they get in the starting blocks. And, and then you hear another some kind of a sound you hear like the starter say something, and they all get up in that tense position, there hind ins in the air fingers on the ground ready to go, and then guys fires the starting gun and they're off. Most people do all that, all of that stuff except for when the guy fires the gun. You just stay there. Can you imagine watching a race? You're all excited L here they go, they're going to raise the guy goes Powell. Fires the gun an eight out of ten races. Just stay there in the blocks, frozen paralyzed in watching runners, get after it. This is what Monday through Friday looks like in American around the world. Please don't be that man or woman. Get out of the starting gate just run. Are you going to win the race every time? No, you will not. Are they going to be faster people? Yep. Are you going to finish the race? Yeah, you will. And you're gonna learn something and oh by the way, the race. At we're running. You got your own lane run your lane who gives a crud what the person next to you is doing what the person on the other side of you student who cares run in your lane. All right. I'm done Preecha. Let's go to Mari, who's on the line in Kansas City, martyr, you're on the Ken Coleman show. Oh my gosh. Pre raced tension. I thought you have waiting on the phone to talk to you. I love. So let's get in the block and go. More year. Awesome. How can I help? Over again. I'm so sorry you're gonna take me why I do the show. Oh my gosh. I'm the jack-of-all-trades person and your commerce are going to hate me because I'm the lucky person that doesn't really have to work 'cause I'm very lucky to have a husband who greets works, incredibly hard. And he's obey. If I you know, do my own thing and. You know, I'm just but I wanna do something that's a value. And so, like, you know, helps the world and help people and right, but it's hard to attach. I don't know. I'm just stuck in my own head I'm doing that thinking thing because you. Associated with money, and then we'll wait a second. You'll need money. So let's let's, let's change our entire conversation from this moment on, we don't actually need any money for mardi who just want to find that she enjoys. So let's get skit out of the money game for a moment. Let me run money would be, you know, I know. But I'm trying to get your head in the right place. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm here. Let's go a different route. I didn't go this route with Jennifer. But I'm going to go this route with you on ask you three questions. I don't want you to answer. Either one until I finish three questions and you answer any one of the three that you want to answer, your ready. Who do you most want to help? What problem do you most want to solve? What solution do you most want to provide? Now, Marty there's no wrong answer to these questions. But this is this is where we really get to figuring out what you really enjoy doing because I think you enjoy doing a lot of things. But let's try to figure out what things you enjoy doing more than anything else. So which question connected to you more. What problem do you want to most solve? Who, who do you most want to help or what solution do you most want to provide? Probably the people to help. All right. Tell me who are those people you would love to help. And how would you like to help these teens? Well, again, it's dark. Don't think just say it what what you said teams so that immediately your heart fed that answer to your brain. Now, your brains trying to mess it all up. So your heart said teens and when your heart said teens a reason why it said teens. Why do you want to help teams or forget the job function? Why do you want to help teens told me? Because. Crappy part of life that hard for a lot of kids. That's right. How would you. So what speaks to you the issues that teens are dealing with the most which ones break your heart. The most. Just interpersonal struggles relationships. How do you think you would be able to help teens? What, what are you bring to the table that you would just, you know, this would I could add value to these teams in this particular area. My life, my own life experiences which end my own struggles in my all boom. And we got a clue hold on. Okay. Great. You got a good sense of humor, but I wanna talk about your struggles because out my wife said this Stacey Coleman gets credit for this quote. I've used it on the show, but she said this to me one time and it hit me like a tuning fork. We were sitting in the living room having coffee. She said out of great pain comes great passion. So what were your struggles? Oh, god. Everybody struggles. You know, you wonder what you struggle. What was your struggle just lack of confidence, which is, you know, an ironic thing because I feel like that's still where I am now. And that's why I'm hundred percent into you. You don't have any confidence in yourself that you have value, but you do have which is funny. Well, all right. So I'm gonna keep. We're gonna move really quick here. What are the things you do better? If I interview, everybody that knows mardi your husband. Good friends, former teachers, teachers parents coaches whatever what would they say the top two or three things you do best? My husband always says, I work room better than anybody. Like, you know, like I have energy, I talked to people, we're connected Midi connector. Yeah. Okay. What else I'm perceptive of like other people's feelings. I can tell what's going on. And then I have I feel like I can relate back to them and give them maybe a different perspective. That means you have empathy as well. Yes. Uh-huh. Perceptive and discernment is a big issue. So you got the talents of discernment I'm gonna say you're probably pretty analytical as well. God, I guess. When you're when you're helping people with problems and you give them advice. What do they say? When you're done giving him advice. A lot of times, I get a wow. Yeah. Thanks. I hadn't thought of it that way. Think about or how do you feel when they tell you that. And they weren't. Sure like, oh my God, I did some good ding dang Joe. You know what happened? Just now, mardi just revealed her dream gig. Yeah. I think that you need to be using your ability to connect with others, your ability to perceive, and discern to understand what they're going through. And then analyze it and give them them some steps forward, I think that puts you now this don't freak out but out at your core like I'm a performer at my core. I just perform in this particular role. I think you are a counselor at your core. Your ear somebody who really understands others you love diving into the people issues and net ties in with what you said, when I forced you to blurt something out in your heart gave us the one true clue on this whole call. You said teens I said, how you sit interpersonal? And I said, well, what, what, what, what do you mean? Well, they struggle, what how'd you struggle? You said confidence all of that ties into what? You just gave me as your top talents and I think you could do that. You, you get have the freedom your husband's giving three you could eventually become a counselor you could you could work for an existing practice. Specializing in youth and teens. You could become a guidance counselor at a local public school, you know you could do that. On the college level you could be nothing more than a volunteer worker at your church in work with the teens. There are so many, I'm just giving you examples, I'm not holding you to any of those examples. But I'm letting your brain begin to work without any pressure and understand. Wow. How can I use those talents? I just gave Ken to help teenagers. Navigate this, this crazy wild hormone filled uncertainty insecurity filled journey and get them prepared to step in to the next. Phase of their life or if they've gone through some hurt or they've gone through some rejection or they've gone through some unf- some misfortune. How does that feel to you? If you did that all day, every day. This is actually something. I've, I mean, I've thought about this. But then I get in my own head. We'll let you know what about that. I don't want to just be a guidance counselor. I don't wanna you know, I mean I've I've taught for fifteen years and I taught junior high, and you're, you're back to you, but you're not one dimensional, so just because you would do this, with your time to make some money, and to feel value. Does it mean that that's all that you are? You're still a wife still Amman, which things right? So I think you need to figure this out. I think you need to go talk to some people who do these things. So we're not just going to say being that's it. But I think you have to go talk to people who are in some lay using those talents that you have to help. Others could be adults to don't limit yourself to teens. This is where the proximity principle actually works. We gotta go sit down and talk to people who are doing what I think I wanna do and go in places where where I think I wanna do is happening. And just volunteer shadow go offer coffee lunch. Learn and you're going to get clarity and con. Formation clarity on what the role is all the different roles confirmation that, yes, this is indeed, what I wanna do or no. It's not what don't over think this same advice. I just went on a rant here. Stop thinking start doing and things will automatically present themselves. When you focus on something that you think you wanna do you begin to see things. You didn't previously see a real quick example, they use this in psychology studies. How many you've bought a car in the last five six seven eight nine years? You remember going to buy that car? You didn't notice it on the roadways at all. But the minute you drive the car off the lot and the ensuing five to seven days. You see the car everywhere. You like I did see this car. Of course, he didn't your brain wasn't fixated on it. That's how this develops g k Chesterton is our quote today. He said when it comes to life. The critical thing is, whether you take things for granted or take them with gratitude. What a word no matter where you are today. What do you need to be grateful for it or really change your perspective in the present? Our time is almost up. But before let you go, you do matter. And you do have what it takes, thanks for joining the conversation until next time this is the Ken Coleman show press on. Thanks for listening to the Ken Coleman show. For more, you can find the show on demand wherever you listen to podcasts and watched the show on YouTube. You can also find Ken across all social media by following at Ken Coleman. Hey folks, I wanna make sure you check out our other Ramsey network podcasts like the Chris HOGAN show. I am so excited to be able to talk to you all weekend and week out we're gonna talk about your money, your life, your dreams and your goals. You know why? Because I'm your coach whether we're talking about building wealth paying off your home early infesting paying for college. And guess what? How to become an everyday millionaire, we're going to focus on taking your calls, because you matter to me together, we can do this. The Chris HOGAN shows available wherever you listen to podcasts for you can go to Chris Hoven three sixty dot com.

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Ep 125 | Phil's Message for Gavin Newsom, Preaching Heresy, and What a Lot of Religious People Miss

Unashamed with Phil Robertson

52:12 min | 7 months ago

Ep 125 | Phil's Message for Gavin Newsom, Preaching Heresy, and What a Lot of Religious People Miss

"On a chain. Uh. What about you? We're in. We're in John Nine. Said where we've been hanging out for a couple of PODCASTS. Do some securities Routes to get there but we One of the things I was thinking about was that you know my life was really. SHAPED A at a crucial period of time by a blind person. And I don't even know if you remember to Abbott. Whenever, we moved to junction city. Of course this is back. You know when dad was not a Christian. And so I was four years. O. Jas was born the year we moved there. Dad was just getting out of college, and so he was working at high school there in Johnson City as a teacher and coach mom worked for the superintendent she was sector. So we lived on the school property. They had a house there which by the way I went back maybe the year two ago spoke in that area. So I, drove out there you know just to look around at now there's like a the house has gone those two houses that were there but it's just kind of like a bus barn school stuff. So it's not but it's so funny because in my mind you. Know in your four years up Jason is for you may be here. Everything seems so much bigger but I could see the ball field down there the dump and all the heirs when I was a kid it was like an exploration to go all I felt like you were going miles away like Ram so far away from the House but when I'm serving the scene as an adult. The whole thing was just right there. I mean I'll we lived adorable lake. This was when you lead, you send a owner away which led to Jesus. So I've dealt with that we're good but as a kid, I was like man that was I remember it was so fun because one I could get away from me all and go down to the lake. and. There's a long way and You know we got to her on the heel. Well, we're living like kings. I went back just a few years ago I was over there for some reason and I said, I want to go and see where we used to live still pulling up is line. you talking about a dome. A handful of China's way. Yeah it was a dump. Why No. But as a kid, you only see what's in front of you. I was finding words and I was fishing. I haven't Tom Malawi. We explored that whole running around him on you know I mean you're just a little kid. You know this is wonderful. So so this was the place in the city was the place before that place and because too young to remember it before we move. But so we move there and obviously you know there were I as a kid I had a lot of great memories but they're also not so great stuff too. But there was a preacher why? That lived on the street about three houses down. And they just saw me out playing in the yard and they came in they were doing a BBS at first summer. We moved there when Jason Born? So sixty nine and they asked if they could take me to church to the BBS, they asked mom probably maybe you and you said, yes, you know and they were really probably wouldn't even happened today now I probably wouldn't and they were in their seventies at the time I mean people now are so. If somebody come up. We won't take one of your kids the chart. Time prime share you. Wasn't made. Palestine. Talked to. Be Nice was in a bit of a bit of a fog but I think you embarrassed and even thinking so so but here's the point. So even though the wasn't the best times you and mom. You did have the wherewithal because you grew up to charge that it was okay for me to go and so I went well I loved it. I mean they had kool-aid and you know whatever else they add the BS. So I started going with them so I started going on Sundays and Wednesdays, and so what was amazing was is the wife sister lighten was her name. And she was bad. and. So she had been blind since she was twelve years old. She was just like she told me the story she was twelve years I'll she saw part of all of a sudden it just started leaving and because something happened in that optic area, and then then all of a sudden she's blind for the rest of her life, and now she's in her seventies. But she was like a superhero to make us. You know like most blind people oliver other senses were like super heightened. So I could just take one step in the yard it inside the House and she would call out my name and I was Li-. She does she knows you know I'm for five six zero get but then she would sit down. And she would tell me Bible stories and I'll be looking in the Bible and she would know just I mean verbatim it was just like an alley. Thanks she could really see I would do my hand because I was thinking she was reading. That's how well she knew the Bible she taught me songs. So I was just thinking about it. We're in this text is the here's this woman who had been blind for fifty years of her life, but she and her husband because. Their commitment to Christ had a huge impact on me because from when I was four until I was nine two we moved away eight or nine I had that spiritual connection to these people and so it's really interesting. I was speaking Almighty looking at just like we talked about with fellow he was protecting me and You know. I was a few years ago. There was a story and I tell us about the story we got famous people knew we were and their granddaughter. Who's now her seven I? Mean these people will be over one hundred years. She reached out to me and so I met her and she lives in. Arkansas or Roy is really interesting because she remembered me from you know her parents telling her stories about me because I was like their little grandson. She's a faithful all night full woman of God and and still continues that and so she remembers Graham cousins really cool story but you know this guy that we've been talking about in John Nine. Basically. He was born blind, and so we talked about previous podcasts that the disciples. Mistakenly assumed that. Somebody had seen was the cause of this. Dead. or S are as parents, right? Right. Because that was the thought process which we discussed that from the first reverses was interesting is when we get down I, think we went through the first seven verses people now are seeing him the neighbors and all these people and their light inverse eight isn't this the same man he used to sit in bag In some Sadie was the other says, no, it just looks like which was interesting because they were having a hard time. What can't be that guy goes. How did he all of a sudden just start saying you know you know they were trying to figure out what happened but you know it's weird even after Jesus Healing. And then they had the investigation and the argument. And the Pharisees basically made the accusation in in versus extend says some of the I said, this man is not from God. For, he doesn't keep the Sabbath. They went back on that bachelor back on on John Five. and. You know if you wanted a bumper sticker moment of the whole story. In Verse Thirty Three. To. May. Cause the man answered. It this man or not from God, he could do nothing. which I like that statement. He just concluded if you want from, he can do anything right which is a blanket statement that I like because this universally tree what can you do without? God. Just think about. What can you do? In in the in reality, nothing really nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. Yeah that was that and that was his that was what he said before if this man were not. What I WANNA say just to say to, among point is what out disrupted they have mistakenly thought someone saying. Or the Pharisees here's the religious people who you would think would be pro God arguing with the man who had just been transformed. And they went back to that initial argument way at the end of the story. because. In verse. Thirty four after said that this man we're not from God he could do nothing thirty three to this three replied you're steeped in Senate birth how dare you lectures you after the whole story they went right back to where it all started et which was basically this was their argument. It yours a curse on you because you were born blind I mean how on compassionate? That right in here's got literally God on the Earth Healing this person transforming and member right after he did that then they came out there and they didn't even recognize it. And I thought from spirituality because Jesus makes the spiritual application in thirty five to forty one talking about being spiritually blind, which is why brought up the deal last podcast about the spitting. Because they couldn't digest one fact that this is the son of God. He has the power to heal. He actually made the Salava that he spit. And, I I just think that's why he did what he did which was the whole point while we went you know low brow humor. But. I'm saying if you're God, you can do what you want and these things that we make fun of or think that gross or you know in some states, you can't spit on the ground. I mean that's against the law. An atheist right now with just can't believe these idiots. Yeah. Believe at the they would but I tell you this. It seems like to me that there's way more evidence that there's an intelligent designer when you analyze salava or why we break wind or all these things we we talk about. Now they they make sense to me on they have a function. We're the ones that have difficulty. Embracing that but for just to happen randomly out of Seaweed as you always say and everything functioned that way to me at a pipe dream I mean, that's just that's your imagination saying, well, maybe I just exploded from. Nothing and I have this kind of complication to me. To not to even get into your ball and how all that works. Here's you know you think about the senses I mean very complex. Damazin in here he comes sale, I'll take this stuff that you views frivolous. And he'll person. That's by. What And then they don't even give it a chance because the point is was all about the heart, the spiritual blindness being aware not having some kind of system and they are invited but fewer that supports your own narrative, which is what they I mean the. Narrative, let's face it. They have a system built on law that they think is right in even God himself and you even God himself could not change that there and you have to be an lockstep with them are you're out? Lockstep agreed with everything. We say are you're out I? Think there's a little bit of that going on to this day. That's why in organized religion I challenge everything. That's not about Jesus I tell everything because I'm like don't form a narrative. In your head with a group or with creed. And perhaps be wrong because I see it over and over and over, and he's always jostles airway are the highway. That's what the. Jot and tittle you don't agree you know what they do they as you leave politely or cleverly the word Jaycees ostracize cancel Yup. Cancer, at I think the same way with this, the climate change folks you know they, they wonder, why does this these people not? They should be panicking with us about climate jaas is happening. It's got a little warmer kawser expense because expelling gas I decided commercial almost. Burger King One of the Burger places they're doing this whole thing about we're gonNA cut cow flatulence by one third, they worship the creation instead of the creator. Exactly. I mean the reason why I I'll tell you why we don't get that shook up about as we believe in the one that created it, and if he decides whatever he's GonNa do with creation and there's not a lot. We can do. You know what I'm saying I mean I'm for clean atmosphere spousal I love debris good air drink goodwater I mean I'm for that when it comes to the big macro problems of is there too much cal methane coming out of a cow so we shouldn't need a hamburger these nut jobs would say. I mean how crazy is that? You don't eat a hamburger because by you eating a hamburger, there's a cow somewhere releasing gas is going to kill us all. Best the link. But that's what I'm saying. That's how narratives dropping odds are it's not logical. It's just like this. It's like crazy. I think one of the positives in this story is that they didn't recognize even his own neighbors. Didn't even recognize him. And I thought about that in a spiritual application about it if you'd seen some on that was lying there. Today. It was just a blind all of sudden. You see some around and look at him here and there that wait a minute here. It's they said while ago they said. Now. It looks like but but that's not him wanted. ME. He looks a lot like him, but now this. Is Out there. He's there. It must be as cousin from another town that just looks hang on. Let's take a break. So we've seen a lot of. Would lawlessness be a good way to put it dad. Taking place in our country ramp. which is the definition of. What I thought about that where we were going and is lawlessness it is and You know there's there's a company that's one of our sponsors and one of the things that there pro law enforcement they're pro conservative movement is called my Patriot supply and You know we we talked about these guys before you know especially at pandemic everything going on and things can turn upside down pretty quickly. These folks have food emergency kit of food that you can have for twenty five years which is in this. Day and age. I mean, this is a much needed thing because I mean things are topsy turvy and crazy. So if you want to get some of these some food supplies from these guys, you can get at least a one tub, which is four weeks worth you go to prepare with Phil Dot com prepare with fail dot com and check these guys out at my Patriot supply and get you some food. You get one hundred dollars off the most popular Kit if you go to prepare with Phil Dot Com. Spiritual application. In, a spiritual and if you get your old friends back in the day. We were discussing. They, they wouldn't recognize you. All that all they came up and wanted me to run with them. You know when I finally located me out I went on lockdown you know no cell phone. No telephone period. So I hear about a year they got the trickling an and they all laughed one time and they all wanna go whether must have no. Of. Course, my line was the one you're looking for died our speaking about baptism, and this is the new one and they all looked at each other and said what? So they did recognize me because what was coming on mouth was nasty opposite of what used to be. I, ll tell them what changes. Yeah by the way. Got Running with y'all anymore and the joy the joy that came along with the peace. Well, in this case, I, think that was love to he was a blind beggar and now part of the healing. The guided done part of the byproducts is he's now joyful is all facial expression. Main, he probably cleaned himself up. Seem like to say. Well. They're just well that ain't hail I mean it looks like. But. Not Him I I just think there's something to that in the spiritual application that you do become unrecognisable in Christ, that is correct in many ways. I, mean it just it's something that it's hard. To get your head around I. I think it's a evidence people talking about the evidences of God it. It's gotta be in the top five true transformation or even answered the prayer these days we we prayed and people have been healed and you don't recognize person you remember the guy in. MEMPHIS when he come up there, well, actually his family came up to our booth and ask feel to come to the hospital and pray because he had cancer they didn't give him onto Lael and. Fail. Said Yeah I'll go which shocked I was like well, we're we're working here. He's a I'll take care of it and he goes to the hospital praise for him and he said if he got better in the Lord healed him that he would take him duck gun. And so we go up there I don't think it was a couple years after that and the guy come up there with the calendar. Hey. Well, you didn't recognize him. because. I. Add hair and he's on the guy you his head was shaved that a tube. Going up into the tube going up nostrils whatever I mean. So he said, well, you look better. And he's like, yeah, and that's Moorefield at. I guess you WanNa take me up on duck guy he's like that's why I got my gallon. You tell me about. You told me Decca and I said. So now you call them, you said Yeah. Sure Book. Guided Birdie. They did come down to dot com and it was actually one of the greatest hot. We Jaso me said that's the guy that that they thought was had a ten percent chance of living with. He's going to die. You prayed for him and he's okay and Joyce. Stone me said, I think of some to see. So khanate, these ducks have been coming in the doing today I'll tell you this another thing he blessed you with that that morning it rain. As hard as I've ever seen it rain while we were duck gun and you just see the ducks come in, you get to see the flicker and we won't won't. End. Up. Killing doesn't matter. That is right because you're adrenaline. Right, and so we kill limit of ducks by eight o'clock, and when we kill the last doug, it stops raining and a rainbow came out. There's not I'm sitting there thinking. This is just this is kinda crazy if you back up two years and feels in a hospital room. And this is where we're at here I mean now you tell somebody in the world they'll say. That was just coincidence but to me I'm like. Oh Mighty was speaking we have John Nine moment here you know but if somebody would run an investigation somebody in the world, they would've tried to poke holes at like the Pharisees there. Peter makes an interesting point. On the people chosen people? Royal Priesthood. And people belong to God that you may declare the praises of Amor College out of darkness into his wonderful light which we're doing right now. Once you were not a people now you are people people God wants you had not received mercy, but now you've received it it is interesting with the guy that didn't recognize. He says, Dear, friends I urge you and here's what he said you. We would be like. We urge you as aliens and strangers in the world. To abstain from Simple Desire Jack. So. When people run up on the people of God and they say, well, that seems a little strange. Strangers and Aliens I. What can what can you say? I mean. That's what we're called to be I. Mean if you're not like them, you end up being an alien and a stranger to them. They're like, no I don't know what's going on there but you know hotter about Jesus, you know a get on an as and pray for people you know and they believe in miracles I don't know about. It it it. What it pushes back, some people they're lying I don't WanNa get all that well w Bragan Babylon me because there's been so many religious groups will come in here. We clearly have one in John Nine. Who have? Abused I guess the. Organizations gathered around. The Sun God. That they just there's a distaste there. And so Like for for every great moment, like we just shared you also have a you know a televangelist say and. Same. Dollars for your miracle. Or. They're faking stuff. You know Detroit all pageantry and this guy's. Motives and some don't, but Jesus said leave him alone. Religions that are like, well, you know, let's doesn't matter if you have one wife you know at fourteen and and it turns into a Harem and kids. Thirty five to forty, one on the spiritual blindness ought about that well before we get there though I wanted to make a point in the in the investigation I want you to see how this happens with his narrative that JAS was talking about earlier back in verse eighteen. The Jews still did not believe that he had been bland and received a site until they sent for the man's parents. So the investigation brings mom. And Dad, they're double checking our Li-. We're GONNA find out who this guy is. They were scared and they're scared because because whoever believed in Jesus they would kick out of the sun back. So it says this your son is this a one you say was born blind that he can now say listen to the listen to the crafted answer of the parents. This is how scared they are. They're going to be kicked out. Of the synagogue well, we know he's our son. The parents answer an we know he was born blind. So these these distant things we can confirm note about their counter that'd be Kinda, hard to deny. He's actually they're just like well, they weren't sure I mean you'd think about it. They gotta situations a guy is healed. And I'm sure the medical practices back then weren't what they are today. So we have a problem either he's Either he's from heaven and he's gotTa. Powell. said to me those. This should be one of the greatest moments in our lab our son who is all I can see we can't even enjoy it because there's no enjoyment out everyone would have been jumping up and down. I say the same thing in churches to come to Christ and they're literally are people in the audience who cannot enjoy it because they think something that happened in the steps of leading this person to Christ or whatever people with them the WHO spontaneously broke out and seeing or shouting or something in the wrong place at their light I don't know if we ought to be you know these people a lot of a lot of them are too good people but they. When you see one that's all ted it up. and. You don't know know whether der- to meet them or read them. And they just add I noticed some of the. Some people look at. The ruffled look like an old dude revolution girl that I, don't know how you'd be spending time or SAMBA. Thank somehow they weren't worthy. Of the blood of Jesus but they just well 'cause there's a fair because let some of these people are criminals and. and. They're using your your compassion as weakness in there we've all had people steal from us and. People cast off you can't do this because that's what we're doing is taking a break. So one of the points we've made consistently is a if you're a redneck, you need a good knife. I guess, I guess anybody needs a good night. But especially, if you're a redneck, you gotta have a good night, right top five things I find metal detecting old pocket knives, and that's why we always need one because he keep Lizzo right. On, all the time I've. I've I've left more at TSA airport than than anything. So we've got a company Casey. Lund Letters. Casey. Lund. You. Blades and they're great knives great for skin and you know you could also put them. You know as protection for yourself. A lot of different ways to do it. Casey is a serious craftsman. loves working with metals been doing this for Thirty Years American made So we would encourage you guys to check them out. You go to Casey the letter Casey Lund Blades Dot, com, Casey Lund Blades, Dot Com you get a twenty percent discount and free shipping for all of our listeners. So check them out today, save you twenty percent get you. A Guy. One time in the back and and he's a good guy. But he just you know like you said, he couldn't. He's looking at the over the section of. His life I mean we got all of these thugs in here and it really just I mean it really bothered me because I was like you know. I would those some of those who brothers and sisters in. Christ they've had a rough way to get here different from your background, but she shouldn't look at your your. That woman for Mandiana that I baptize yesterday she said. Something that they've got ABS, listen that podcast. He said this not been a very simple person. A thaw told her. I said if come to the right place at the right place and you make making the right move. As legal advocacy and let's let's go with it. Yep. So well, look Jesus was Senlis. He was endless. Contrary to Don. Lemon he had no sin so and he's the most empathetic person to centers. This ever walked the earth that is it. So he think about it the only senlis person ever lived owed love centers than I sure better level. The same. They made the same statement when they said a second time and twenty three. They said they some in the man who had been blind give Laura to God they said, we know this man is a senator. Stomach Jesus. Yeah and he replied a whether is center or not I don't know one thing I do know. I was blind. And now I say. Love that he never wavered. They're like, wow, how did he do it? They already ask you know they asked him that ten versus before and he said he spent on the ground. Eight to meet the mud, he put it on is and Why do you? Why do you want to hear it? So that's why he says why do you want hear it again? Do you want to become his disciple stay with that was the wrong because. Then they got mad. You know they're all we're with Moses, which is why we have a whole chapter in Hebrews three about that because some of these people put their faith and trust in my twists that assigned where if we can prove he was a senator. He shouldn't have healed him right well, you know that knock out everybody that's ever been he'll. Exactly. I mean that's what I'm saying is. Legitimate. Point. Is That because they stumble upon one of the true fundamentals of God if your guide you have to be Senlis. That's the problem I have with other religions with the hold up a center as a God. I'm like, wait a minute that's not gonNA work 'cause in eternity if you're God is a center. Will. He could see it. So we could get a thousand years into heaven and all of a sudden. He say, you know what I changed. My mind you all. Just, look at it this text to Y'all GonNa. Put. Correct. Exit genetical move on it. A second time they summoned the man who had been bland verse Twenty Four. Give Dora to God. They said, we know this my answer center they weren't talking about the blind. Man They're talking about Jesus. But they only knew replied whether he's center I don't know one thing I do know I was I'd seen now. So but they were saying how could have center he'll. But where they come up on this thing about he had to be a center, why would they say that? Well, almost say this they've never seen him saying that's for sure because it's universal. All people said they were using a universal fact. He's they look at it looks like. He's from Galilee. Oh I know he's senator Saturday. Well, you said, no good. Thanks. For you bring up a good point, I, want to say this delicately this this story shows you a truth that a lot of religious people miss in my opinion, which is a the Bible is the truth but not all bobble is true. Because here. You have some statements that you could take out of context. Like that one, we know he's the center. Inside well, Jesus was the center I just read it. Would they with the guy? Meeting and I'll tell you another the one I read while ago. It said you are steeped in Senate birth and thirty four. How dare you lectures? So peeps, I see your. Birth I just read it. You know they thought he was Yup they were wrong. Just like they were wrong about Jesus being a Senate. There's a there's A. People dissertation that you're born center. Baby where they're getting you get up at a pulpit and say what I just said that you know the Bible is truth but not all our street are there will be people fall out of the pews they'll say you know get some tar and feathers. He just said the Bible wasn't true. Will you start reading stuff over in a book job and when they were similar situation why Joe was being persecuted Kinda like this they were giving him the worst advice ever with Iraq and the point from this context but I've heard preachers get up and purchase army and then quote or give reference of versus Joe Bill De. And I'm thinking nope. Just gave this whole community the exact opposite advice of what they should be. Yeah. You just preached heresy. and. I guess the same people that would defend it. That's the reason I never take any money from going up there at the little congregation an now reads the. 'cause I'm I've got another freedom to say if they don't pay me, they can't fire me so. They just got to go without I'm just making a point. That check hanging over your head. It makes. Appropriate discussing as a little deeper problem in that people who read the Bible like a college course to make a one hundred on getting all these facts straight you're you're gonNA take something out of context especially, if you don't do research if you Google some verses about being send folate bars in this pops up, you're like, oh, well, we. Yeah I read it. is their hair was Yeah, you're on the wrong side of saying that the Bible is truth and yet there is because it's people having conversations obviously a a not not everybody saying true things that are in the Bass Ri- ecclesiastes these another great example Allen was in major depression mode. That's one of the most depressing books in the Bible I mean it is bad. So if you took a lot of quotes out of it and just tried to Plat into some of my say or general trues, you know. You know like when you read proverbs. I'm not one hundred percent set accurate. Every wife is not a dripping faucet, but I'm not Says to make. House dripping Faucet I'm like. said the words of the Teacher's son of David King and Rusal and Solomon meaningless meaningless says the teacher utterly meaningless everything is me. Yeah that's the first statement out of your mouth look. There is nothing to. Understand the context this sound was going through a rough patch when he was writing ecclesiastic, he came to the realization that after a thousand wives, which is by the way when you have a thousand lives, that's where you probably come up with this for a few. Ended up saying I fear God and do what he say. He says the right thing at the context was pretty. He also said you know what? I had a buddy of mine when I was in early high schoo-. In every verse that he would show me. What had something to do with your heart breasts were like towers or whatever. Yeah. Because, the only reason he's reading his Bible is defined every verse it talks about Breast Darva Jonah, and he's wanting to show me that and I'm like it. Thank you missing. On larger narrative. Here. But having said that those verses are in the bachelor who just never hear a discussion outside of a few married a seminar probably right. So let's take another break. So the leftism embraced, we talked a little bit on podcast about cancel culture. That's a big thing going these days on the left. You know basically, if you've got an opposing viewpoint, then you're cancel you know we don't want to hear from you kick you off the Internet whatever. was just what people do. Well, they tried to I mean that's what they try to do. We've got a one of our sponsors, Patriot Mobile is different from all the other carriers because they're conservative company they believe in lot of the same things that we do and so If you are wanting to switch they, they've also got some the prices or fair We won't let you know about these guys you can call nine, seven, two, Patriot, nine, seven, two patriot, or you can visit Patriot mobile dot com slash. Feel you get a customized plan starting at Twenty Five Bucks? So that's Patriot mobile dot com slash feel nine, seven, two patriot, check them out. There was a verse somewhere in numbers that talks about a certain group of people and their description the whoever that right Moses I guess with the re- writer described by their genitalia. Which I was kind you always get buys. You know the people that day through there for that or it's in there. You know we said before I think you have to be open about it because a lot of people just in churches they tend to have this. This etiquette. That when we go in there, everything must be done decent. In an order and we can't but a lot of the Bible even talking about spitting on the ground which I talked about last time or the absurdity of of someone breaking wind or 'cause there's a lol somewhere in the state where a read that it's against the law to break win in church if if it's deemed that it was done to be disruptive. and. There is a law that says that. Allies and we need more. I. Saw Space Ajay's the human race. They can come up with move ruse and regulated. Why is it that the air religious? Full of ethics rules and regulations it just comes forth from them. Is. It about just the. Religious. A lot of religious that this is a religious. Of the that came from religious law. That you can't do that I just think. That it's done in this. This narrative of this is the way. God wants us to be instead of reading and say you know what? There's a lot of gray area and there's a lot of things in the Bible that are uncomfortable and I'm sure emotional people probably wouldn't think that if they they were given the reins to help people, they're not going to be spent on the ground making mud pies him it's just not because it just seems there's no etiquette in that. Bet, you also gotta remember this thing that the that the start of this along with about another dozen times in the cost the gospels. The. Continued misunderstanding was by these. Jewish leaders were that Jesus was sending because he was doing the signs on the Sabbath but they totally misunderstood the purpose of the Sabbath and that's what Jesus kept. Tell him in mark two he said to them over another deal because you know the disciples are going along with their Hungary. So it's the sabbath and they're taking the top sophism. You Know Mazer something out in the field and they're eating it and then they look I say those again, we'll get a disciples working on the side 'cause they're eating it, and so that was that case Jesus said you don't know what you're talking about. He said the Sabbath was made for man. Not Man for the Sabbath, that was their core misunderstanding. So the son of man is, Lord even of the Sabbath, what is was I was the one that came up with the Sabbath House there you know what? I'm saying I agree and then I think he was a principal of rest that they turn into a legalistic. You know you can't do. We're going to tell you what you can do what you can't we're GONNA we're. GonNa draw the land on what's working not work you to your point that's exactly what these little despots doing today we're going to let you know What you're doing is hurting or helping us. So we're going to draw the line. You WANNA run over here. Do this we're okay with that but you you can't do is that same? which comes back to that Virgil I don't know who said it. Some older guy it was league Liga legalism is a killer killer. He said it must then he said it must be hunted. For. Whatever. Whatever of ours, we read that we said they came to make him king by force I think. John, Dix, it was after which supports that. Line of thinking is that there's a narrative that they want to get out. They realize yet some power whether it's real or not is in different people believe that he's real. So let's make him came by force so that we can. Get our narrative. But he also presented another thing because I think there's something really interesting in verse thirty five after they kick. For John thirty-five after they. Got Mad said he was sinful at birth they throw him out. Throw him out. Here's the hill. This is not a happy any he's healed he's transformed. An argument as an investigation and they throw him out 'em and just as a sad not to just though his parents too much on the bus, but they really didn't back it up. They were more afraid of being thrown out they were just. They didn't believe was exactly right. So what I'm saying is is kind of sad because the parents just Kinda let him that than throw him under the bus. Every person is responsible for how they view Jesus which is an underlying theme to the whole book. Your parents could raise you right. They could take you to church don't mean anything you know what's interesting Here's a blind man. From birth. Holy was but I'd say what? Well it says he's A. Thirty. He's thirty something years old. And he's finally healed. and. It's caused more trouble than than it was when he was black. That's what's amazed in any. It's only doesn't care because he can see he can see but I think Jesus something interesting. Because he was coming to Pharisees with Yeah I'm the Lord of the Sabbath Son a God that was the whole narrative. But when he came back after the guy gets thrown out in thirty five, he says. Jesus heard that they had thrown him out. He didn't have to hear about it just by the way he knew he he knew. And when he found him. which is what Jesus's really good at finding people that seek him. Do you believe now notice the phrase he said in the son of man. Because if you think about the significance because he often fired himself as son. Of Man, which is a difficult. Thing for us to get. Paid for saying since he's a Miami bound to be a center so I, think that's why he phrased it like that because he was being accused of being a senator I say we know it. We know he's resent flesh and they said Oh but you gotta remember the Guy who was born blind who he'll he knows he's he'll. He knows that that guy healed him. He's basically said to heck with Oh, I'm going him because that kind of power has Hilmi which I don't know if he was reason to the resurrection at this point but I think I would half by the way it's an interesting bar, the guy he told that illness take. Off. He said That when Jesus heard throwing him out when he found him, he said, do you believe in the son of man and check us that who is he? Sir, the man that which is a whole questions. Tell me so that I, believe I may believe in a he's still didn't quite get it. That's what I. That's what I was. GonNa Bring on and I was Gonna tie with what we talked about on on the last. podcast this next phrase and I want to highlight this y'all know that I have a special place Ima- heart for worship male my wife now lead worship at Church. and. We've been pursuing that for years because of little versus like this that are found meaning many times in the Gospel. In Verse Thirty Eight, it says then the man said, Lord. A-. Believe any worshiped him. And so when these people try to come up with this, the California Governor Saying, Oh, you can't sing in church now because the coronavirus we know where that's coming from that's just of the devil you. It bothers you that people love. God and they're singing but us a weekend up. Because it's a reaction I mean, when you believe Jesus is Lord and son of a you're gonNA, worship can help that. You Can Tho men jail and what it pollen solace do when they did that worship or they were singing and middle raising God of the just taken a beaten and they're worse than. It had a great impact on the jailer. And I've. I've heard religious people say you know that's one of the mysteries a that they would be doing that mystery they believe Jews as low if he won't if if if Jesus wants to get them out, oh, he'll get him out once you know that he has that power. You're worshiping the I think which is the point here, which are little things that you don't really realize that it's more reaction. Reactionary God is always about it's not about obedience. And? You said what? You know the religious what? He wants you to obey. It it there's a difference in there. It's not just. Roll everything out and like you must obey do this one-two-three one-two-three urine. That's why said where's it mad he five those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. So once you get to know Jesus which the fundamental question in the book of John Is that question in thirty six, who is where we I've averse was still governor's name California. I'll NEWSOM NEWSOM MR newsom versus thirty nine John Nine read this for judgment. Jesus said he'd come into this world so that the blind will see. And those who see will become blind. Him that's where the governor is. He said no, you can't sing to God. Let's get a law. That what. You might catch pandemic. That's all the reason I'm doing that. I how you're up to no good. When you case tell anybody, they can say, yeah agree talk about taking freedom of speech to a new level. Well, look with look heresy said in verse forty. So there answer is there there and he says that and they said, what are we blind to like? I mean, what are you saying? You said we saying we can't see which led to another controversial statement which a lot of religious people focus on and they miss the joy of the whole story 'cause I don't understand what he meant by forty one. I'll be honest I'm not sure exactly. I. Can't give you a theological breakdown of it because he says if you were blind, you would not be guilty of Sim. But now that you claim you can see your guilt remains who I mean I think it was more about the innocent. There is a time which I think goes into when your kid which is where they started blowing they accused he was born in San. The verse that sticks out in my mind is that is it Roman seven five where it says once I was apart I was alive apart from law harems. Trauma seven, four or five read the whole chapter. You'll see it but then it says once I was alive apart from lol, and then the commandment Kane. and seeing when the Calama. Game? And when the commandment came sand sprang to life and died. Now whatever your version however that reads my finding exactly where that is, it's it's the only logical Cobra. Say of had many arguments about this verse, the only logical conclusion in my opinion. For its seven. Nine. Once I was alive apart from law. But when the. CAIN sand sprained life and I that. So, only make this as a point to say, how could you bill live? Paul here who wrote Romans apart from all. Didn't know what he said. Feeling a little kid but. Contents had not developed by a baby in a crib can't be a center because you say, what could they do then? So here, what saying is too young. So fast forward here I don't think that was his overall point. I just think he was making a principle that safe you're blind, you will not be to. Him He was talking about what just happened because remember it started with a question who send. That this man was born blind. Tom At this, why do think to the parent nor the child, but he didn't mean that they'd never seen he just said that's wasn't cause and effect. Wise. My I agree I was just going to the underlying ideological argument behind that is which is. Basically saying is this guy was bland and it wasn't because a sin it was so that the work of God might be revealed. He already said that but he now he is a believer because he has seen way beyond just seeing what is at now sees with this whole heart spirit the pharisees they could see physically but they didn't believe in Jesus now and they were worse off. Don't ever doubt it. They committed I. Don't know if you know I I guess since do have different degrees as far as consequences. into me if you're claiming to be a man of God and your actions especially with human beings and a love and compassion for them are in direct contrast. I would think that's about as bad as it gets when when you stand for a guy him out of the synagogue because he got healed. I mean, that was why they did it. Can you imagine? This. Imagine when he said judgment. the verse for Judgment I've come into this working you imagine standing before God being on the wrong side of something like this and you're standing there and he's like. I try you you've you took own my son. In a mean hateful way and and tried to thwart. My purpose for the salvation of humanity, what do you think should do with you? That would be a very good question and let's face it. The very thing that we're seeing here is why we're also disgusted when we see hypocrites who make laws for people within the. Don't live at themselves or have other groups people have. Every nobody likes a hypocrite I. Mean, you know I'll tell you this. I wish every since I'm not part of any religious organization in leadership way I would love I can say this. For Every Group of religious people when they have their meetings with all the passers y'All y'all have seen I would love for one of those meetings to to start off by saying this. The leadership are we sure? That nothing we're doing is the warning the. Mission of God. That would be a great question because you definitely don't want to be on the side where you're hindering the Kingdom of Heaven itself and your religious teaching not a good place to be. It's a fair point. Jas. So we're out of time. Dad's book is out be sure and check that out. Jesus politics had to win back the soul of America. You can get that Amazon dot com a lot of other places. Check that out. Next. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on Itunes or spotify, or youtube or facebook, and be sure and rate us on attuned so that other people can know about the podcast.

Jesus John Nine senator Senate Casey Tom Malawi Cancer Jason Born China O. Jas John Abbott Burger King Palestine Johnson City Ram superintendent Detroit
276 | The Unfollowing

The Minimalists Podcast

46:08 min | 3 d ago

276 | The Unfollowing

"This episode of the minimalist is brought to you by nobody because advertisements suck minimalists every little fame. You think me every little thing you every little thing. That's feeding your greed. Bear that you'll be fine without the hello. Everybody welcome to the minimalist podcasts. Where we discussed what it means to live a meaningful life with less. My name is joshua fields millburn non ryan nicodemus together. We are the minimalists. Dude how nice is it. That has just been you. And i the last episodes. I really enjoyed it. I i like guess. We'll get back to having some guests really soon but enjoy having these conversations especially with the direction some of these conversations have been taking. It's not just a minimalism. Although that's certainly a component of all of these discussions these conversations these podcast episodes were having. It's intentional living. It's simple living but it's about understanding and and getting a deeper understanding today we want to invite you. To unsubscribe and unfollowed. Oh yeah anything. That doesn't bring tranquillity or increase your well being narrow. We just had this essay hit our website. I thought i'd read a bit from this essay. It is called the great unsubscribe. You can have a conversation about this. It starts like this a decade ago. Shortly after starting our website we publish an essay that invited our audience to follow the minimalists. Why because we want to add value to your life not digital clutter to your screens and it's also because we're minimalists. Yes we wanted to minimize our audience as much as possible. The thing is we are really tiny audience back then and so. We're kind of doing it again. The essay goes on to say so. Please unsubscribe if our work no longer serves you Naturally this fluffy extends beyond the minimalists clinging to media that disrupts ones tranquility be at a tv show magazine newsletter or influence or account is a vacuous endeavor that was in quotes influence s. Yeah over the past ten years. The minimalists have continued to ask people to walk away from our blog. Podcasts and social media if it stops advancing their wellbeing but we're taking it one step further this month. this is a little. This makes me a little nervous. I generally don't get nervous to do this but that nervousness is an attachment. it's exposing an attachment of mine. So i thought maybe we could talk about this ryan but the essay goes on the today. We are removing more than a hundred thousand people from our email newsletter. And you're not. Wow you opting out. It's us opting you out So anyone who has not opened one of our emails in the last month will be thirty days. Yeah man that is That's a pretty strict boundary right but we are all about boundaries yes What if i guess there's a bunch of what isn't there. Thirty days sounds good. I love that. There is a bunch of what if's isn't there. Yeah yeah and so you jeff who is our developer. He and looking at this and just identify and we're actually going to start with a little bit wider net enclose into this thirty day area in which were in more than one hundred thousand people. But it just tells me like if you haven't opened up an email of hours in the last month. There's nothing wrong with that. But hey why are you paying too to send emails to that person in the first place but then also forget that. Why am i putting their inbox. I'm doing the opposite of what you and i set out to do right. It's certainly not adding value. If you're not opening anything now at that point it's kind of like unintentional spam. Yes now if we accidentally unsubscribe you you can always resubscribe. Yeah or if you've been unsubscribe yourself you can resubscribe in the future if you decide. Hey you know what. I missed that thing. It was adding value to my life etc. Nothing is final in the blog life. Hey thought but in real quick and talk about this. Add some clarity. There are some folks may have accidentally unsubscribe d'you and you didn't want us. To unsubscribe from the list. Now you'll know if that is you because you received an email that lets you know. You've been unsubscribe if that was done by mistake if you are indeed finding value from our emails simply head on over to the minimalists dot com and resubscribe. We won't unsubscribe you again. And i think it's worth noting that we're not using your data or your email for anything we still there. Wouldn't give your information or god forbid. Sell your information to anyone. What we did is we just checked to see whether or not you've opened an email of ours recently now. Some people might have some sort of filter. That doesn't tell us whether or not you did so. We may have inadvertently removed from the email list. But if we did you received an email about that as well if you'd like to resubscribe you can certainly do so but please do so if and only if you find value in what we're creating what we're podcasting about what we're writing about one hundred percent free to be on that email list but we do not want to clutter your inbox. So if you'd like resubscribe at the minimalists dot com and enjoy a little bit more of less. If there's a simple way to carry this out on social media or our podcast. We would do it there to this. Great unsubscribe will free up space to produce meaningful creations for the people who desire to explore the benefit of living with less without yearning for the approval of the uninterested masses. You see while it might seem impressive to have millions of readers listeners followers and subscribers it was never about the numbers by the way. That's the the one line stands out. Most that's the the key takeaway from this whole thing. It was never about the numbers. It has always been about creating an understanding creating something genuine understanding the truth. Everything else is ex us. So feel free to unfollowed the minimalists or stick around if you benefit from our words but if we cease adding value please remember. Peace is just an unfollowed away. That's a great last line. Why thank you so. I think that the thing that i want to illustrate here and on the maximum. So this week ryan. We're going to talk about peace and tranquility and what exactly that means fact. We would be discussing that a bit here on this minimal episode. But i had some follow up from last week ryan. We did a maximal episode on the private podcast. The broken news. Oh yes we oh man. I've actually stopped looking at the news Couple of days ago wasn't it wasn't the day after we did that. Podcast but oh man. It's unbelievable how much more peaceful life is without the news without the misery in a way and the bad news Yeah Without the conflict introducing unnecessary conflict into our life in fact during the lightning round today ryan. I do wanna talk to you about conflict for those who need to catch up. You can go back and listen to our conversation. Ryan interviewed me on our private podcasts. We did about an hour on the news and the media and sort of how we're unfollowing certain things and then we did another hour on hidden. Clutter let our audience way and some clutter stop. Well you know. It's it was after the insurrection that i got like really stuck on the bad news And i just remember thinking like man. Josh is a so tranquil right now like not looking at the news and Yeah so. I wanted to have a conversation with you about not looking at the news but then i was like. Oh we should say that for the podcast. Because i know i'm not the only one who was like struggling with that so it was a great conversation. I'm glad we did it and hopefully You know people were able to have a different perspective on on the media that they taken one thing. I can tell you is. I did leave a few things out because we were talking about some of the things. I i in fact gave a list of all the things that subscribed from in terms of the news. But there are other things that are sort of news adjacent that. I also unsubscribe from so really this episode. We're calling it. The unfollowing i- unfollowed a bunch of people and social media. Was nothing against them personally but they were not aiding my tranquility in fact they were there. Were getting in the way. They were sharing certain things that interfered with my tranquillity. I didn't take it personally. I'd never on follow you ryan. What did we say last week about. You know it's hard to look at someone and say i'd rather be happy than have you in my life but maybe even to take it a step further what you were you know. Well that's basically what you were saying but to take this up further you can look at someone else will be like. I'd rather you be happy than me in your life. Yes and that's really how i feel about you like if you did on follow me. I would feel like you know what i'd rather you be unhappy. Then have any life. Well that's a rather you be happy than have your life and that's a mature way to look at it because what you're doing is you're stepping back and not allowing the sort of emotion. It's easy for us to by the way. This is all emotion based right all of these conversations that we're having here involve some sort of emotional tug toward. I'm supposed to follow this news. I need supposed to be an informed. Citizen i'm supposed to Listen to good media and weed out the bad media. These are all judgements that we don't need to thrust upon things. All i need to do is say. Hey there are certain. Twitter feeds and social media feeds and podcasts and newsletters. That are not that are interfering with my tranquility. And so there i went through. All of my. In unsubscribe very quickly unsubscribe scribe. I did the same with a bunch of email newsletters but sometimes it feels every time with my email and spending half of my time. Just unsubscribe from things. That i didn't even know i signed up for the there are two newsletters signed up for and because i don't want make anyone feel like they should go sign up. It's not a recommendation. Yes so what. I've realized throughout this whole process ryan is. Everybody is suffering. We already know that but media is only increasing the suffering. I didn't say the media. I mean media in the sense that like all of these vehicles through which information is delivered to us is increasing our misery increasing our suffering. And why is that is because we're constantly chasing ephemeral. Bits of pleasure and through that were running away from misery but this is much faster than we can ever run even like another perspective on I went to to the news for answers. Like i'd get anxious and we talked about this on that podcast. But it's like you go there for the ephemeral. Bits of happiness For whatever it is but for me it was like i thought that the news was going to give me an answer that i was seeking and it never does. That really. can't think of once where i've been went to the news. I'm like oh. That's the answer. I was looking for right because we're not looking for answers. We're looking for confirmation. Yeah and and so answer is is a dangerous thing because we don't actually want help. The person who wants help will find the help that they want rate. Even the person who who thinks that they're seeking help is often seeking confirmation. Yeah can you please give me permission to do the thing i already knew was i was. I was going to do in the first place and i. I want to feel better about the decision. I've already made. We have a question here. From jackson in johnson city tennessee. I have begun starting the act of being a minimalist and today my partner. Facetime me and i told her when i was getting rid of and we had the biggest fight and then she diagnosed me. She's diagnosed me and wrote a bunch of quotes hang. I need to get help but this could be bigger than just being a minimalist. This could actually be a personality issue. That is supplementing matt. I just thought. I was torn between two worlds one person trying diagnosed me and then one heavy influence that i've been getting From the podcast for months. I just wanna see you gotta think personality disorder minimalism. Is there anything. That is connected. So i hear this word disorder. The world is disorder And it's not the natural state by the way the world for the last twelve thousand years has been approach increasing levels of disorder. Ever since we sort of formed civilizations we have relied on other people's perspective for order rate. And so i would say that. Yeah we all have personality disorders and if you're asking me to diagnose you with something. I obviously can't do that. I'm not qualified to do that. But i will say. I'll diagnose everyone with a personality disorder of some sort. Meaning we whenever we approach something. We are doing so from a perspective of society of culture and culture always leads to chaos. And so it's the new stuff we were talking about last week or it is the newsletters that are showing up in your inbox. Or it's the people who were tweeting at you or whatever we are seeking out. There's going to be bits of chaos. Just interwoven throughout society. The disorder is all ready. There in minimalism. Jackson is a way for us to find some order in our lives. I say find because it's really uncovering the order. The order that exists it's the order of nature. It's the natural. Or even hear that phrase right anything disrupts nature then is this order and so we we use these terms disease chaos. It's all the it's all the same fabric though and so minimalism is not a way for. It's not a destination that we're going to a tool that we use to clear that clutter to make the order. You can't organize your way to order. You can have a really cluttered house. That is organized. But that's not order. It's simply orderly like i said find some order 'cause you know just reiterating what. You said about minimum not being a destination. So it's not about well if you're having any troubles in your life and he disordered become a minimalist and you're gonna find all the order right just helps you filter through a lot of the noise. I really wish. Jackson told us what he was getting. Rid of that causes argument because if it was like an antique vase i mean. That's his girlfriend's projecting. Yeah if it's his head. Well that's a problem right. He might have a disorder he wants to minimize his head so obviously does want to minimize his head but it is interesting. How when we start to find some other especially through. Something like minimalism. because it's such What's the word. I'm looking for like it is. I'm looking for an adjective. A very disruptive word yeah and disruptive lifestyle because is disrupting the chaos right and whenever we do that in our lives especially know. We'll hear this from people who are experiencing a lot of disorder themselves. They start to project judgment. And you know really. His girlfriend is what she saying. she's not saying jackson. You have disorder. What she's saying is is if i was in your shoes and if i started to think about getting rid of whatever it is that he was thinking about getting rid of there would be something wrong with me. Therefore there must be something wrong with you and it's very difficult especially when it's our partner to To not take that personally. It's not actually have this question like is there something wrong with me. I mean i remember you know when we were working in our corporate jobs and people were asking me if you were thinking about killing yourself. Because i was getting rid of stuff it was the same thing. Yeah what disorder. Does he have right. And i'm like yeah. Josh has been thinking about killing himself for years. I don't think he's actually going to do it though. This is how i can prevent me from killing myself. it right. yeah what's fascinating about that. Is i the projection things spot on ryan in especially that right or wrong thing. What what she may be doing again. You're right it does depend on what those items are because if you got rid of all of her stuff that's a problem. That is a problem becoming a minimalist. And i decided i'm getting rid of all your things. Hey honey we're minimalists. Now where's my stuff. Actually you're a minimalist so yeah we wanna be careful with that making sure that it is is my stuff that i am getting rid of him not thrusting this upon someone else and at the same time. It's it's important to realize that when she's projecting that onto you she is also creating a moralizing stance of right and my way of living is right or correct and your way of your new way of living is is wrong right and i'll say this hope you don't get upset about it but no hope involved here really jackson. Your path is not the right path either. The path of minimum is not the right path through in her path is not the wrong path and vice versa. The question is what is appropriate and what. What are the outcomes that you're see. What are you seeking. Are you seeking peace. Are you seeking tranquillity. Then we'll removing some of that chaos will get us closer to that. We're uncovering the piece as opposed to finding chasing you can't chase piece. It doesn't work that way. And so yeah when i look at getting rid of stuff. That's the that's the initial bite at the but it also means that you're going to start looking. Inward and simplifying the relational clutter the career. Clutter the existential angst. Clutter all of these. These additional clutter. Is that go way beyond the stuff they manifest in those material possessions and that can cause i think it can cause initially some additional chaos up front. Because when you're when you start to see this kind of truth for what it is you realize like oh. The last thirty years i've been living ally. It wasn't a lie in the sense. That like i was intentionally doing something quote unquote on. It was ally in the sense of know the truth in it only continues to be alive if i continue to go down that path knowing that it is inappropriate for me. Yeah you know one thing all throughout here to for jackson is when you have a romantic partner in your life Your decisions effect. That person. So i know with mariah and i she might say something or have an idea to do something like i'm thinking about. She had brought up for you. What it was but you know there are things that like as soon as she brings it up. I have this visceral feeling of lake. Well that's not practical. That is making me sense. An and like i automatically push against her. yes in soon as i catch myself actually creating a problem. When there wasn't a problem. I will take a step back and i will start to try and work with her and try. Meet in the middle somewhere so. I'm not saying that you know. Jackson has to do what his partner says. But you have even a business partner with you. And i mean we have to consider each others perspectives and You know our Tastes and there's another word i'm looking for the can think of right now. But yeah preferences exactly so that is. It's it's important if you want your girl to respect your preferences you're going to have to respect her preferences and sometimes it takes a really difficult conversation But i'm just throwing that out there for jackson to hopefully help him. Avoid these arguments in the future jackson. Love us in your copy of our new book. I say new. It's not even out yet but it's called love people. Use things sean. If you put him on the list there's an entire chapter in there about our relationship with people it's their relationship book goes beyond the stuff in fact it starts with our relationship with the stuff but it's about the seven essential relationships in our life those relationships with our stuff. One of them is the truth. One of them's with ourself so forth. And so on the very last chapter in the book is about our relationship with people find value in love people use things pre-order it s out a lot love people use things dot net. Is the place that you can pre-order it ryan time. Isn't you know what time it is. It is time for the lightning round where we answer your text messages. You can text your questions or comments to nine three seven two zero two four six five four doesn't do those tax go to both of our phones now during the lightning around the orion and i do our best answer every question with a short sheriff or less than one hundred forty character response. We put the text to these minimal maximums in the show notes that you can copy and share the answers on social media if you'd like and oh by the way you can find all of our minimum maximum one place now. Minimal maximums dot com. Marianne has a question for us. We can't impose tranquillity on the world around us. So how do we adjust our internal settings to maintain inner tranquility. I the reason i liked. This question is because it's very honest and it exposes the truth here about tranquillity. So here is. I'm gonna give you a pithiest three pithy answers for you here but my first one is imposed piece always leads to conflicts. And that's the thing that we often try to special a relationship with others is. I am going to force you to be peaceful. Yeah i'm going to force anything onto you persuade you coercion. Hugh that does not work. In fact it accomplishes the opposite ryan. If i'm tie you down and say be peaceful. That's me telling you to be in the moment. Yeah it sounds good. I guess maybe but living in the moment isn't good or bad anyway it simply is and we either are living in the moment or we are living for the future or the past which is where most of us spend our time living and so talking about imposing tranquillity. Yes an imposed peace always leads to conflict. So how do we adjust our internal settings to maintain inner tranquility. I will say this. Here's my other pithioud for you. All conflict arises from within there is no such thing as external conflict. They feel that way. Someone does something to you but they do something to you. Only in so far as you allow that thing to be done to you the seoul or whatever in fact. I wanted to read a an excerpt from direct truth. That's a kapila gupta's book. And i thought this was a perfect answer to this question for marianne and it. This chapter is titled. Why do i get angry when i am insulted. You get angry when you're insulted. Someone says something snidey on social media sometimes more than insulted. Yeah and so well. Maybe not externally defensive but i start to feel defensive so when someone insults you do you get defensive and you say yes to that right. Yeah i don't know if. I like voice my defensiveness i try not to but the visceral feeling is definitely like a defense. It's an internal feeling to it. Doesn't exist in the real world. It's simply something that has arisen within you right. Yeah so this. Is this chapter in this book this entire book which i read in a single sitting and reread it. The next day phenomenal book. We'll put a link to it in the show notes called direct truth by gupta and the it's written as a qna right so it's question answer question answer right so it's like a student in a master sort of having a conversation together right and so i'll start with the question and then i'll use a slightly different voice for the answer. What am i angry. When i'm insulted because you entertain the verity of the insult. How so how not. So if someone calls me stupid it does not mean that. I'm stupid nor does it mean that you are not. But i don't believe myself to be stupid. The anger would not arise within you. Anger arises within me because they unjustly accused me of being stupid. I see you don't agree. I understand that you would like me to agree I would like to know. I've already answered you. But my answer was not to your liking. But i i don't think of myself as stupid i understand. You don't believe me. I do not need your assistance seeing the truth. Do you believe me that i think. Do you believe that. i think i'm stupid. This question does not interest me Then how are you able to answer my question. I have already answered it. There's apprentice a here. This woman walked away anger than return two weeks later. Oh this is a legit conversation. One of his clients. Oh yeah would you like me to tell you what why returned if you wish. I realized something. I was getting angry about you. Not believing me when i said. I didn't think i was stupid the fact that this made me angry ironically illustrated the very point that you were trying to make my correct. Am i correct yes. I apologize for my foolishness. I am now ready to hear your answer. I have already given you my answer. Which is to say that. If i become angry at being called stupid i believe myself to be stupid. I wonder if you might expand upon this for me. If someone calls you a bird would you become angry. No why not because being called a bird is not an insult very well. If someone were to call you a bird that was too stupid to flap its wings with this. Make you angry. No why not because. It isn't true at all yet. When you're called stupid it makes you angry because something within you entertains the possibility that you might in fact be stupid then. Something else within. You grows irritated by the idea that you might be this internal conflict manifest itself as anger. I see so if not a single iota of a belief about being stupid existed within me. That anger would not arise that is correct It's good man. There's like it's funny. Because the and i don't know if that's what you just read but there is the truth that when someone calls you stupid and you start to get to an i start to get defensive all put it on me some stupid. I start to get defensive. it's for for me. It's one or two reasons. it's either a piece of me. Thinks that maybe. I am stupid And then for some reason there's another piece of me that feels misunderstood. Yes in that. I'm doing something to make people think that i'm stupid ray. What you're both in the ego but it's interesting. How sometimes the defense mechanism comes up out of fear of people believing something. That isn't true right. I it's the bird analogy there right like. Why don't you think bird hearts at ryan insult you to by saying your feathers are the ugliest color You would just dismiss that right and yet and i misunderstand you Clearly misunderstand you. I mean it's a fundamental misunderstanding of who and what you are. You're at insulted by that at all. No although maybe like. I take it to a metaphorical sense. What does he mean by feathers. But yeah no i. I understand what you're saying. Here's here's one more pithy answer for you. Put this in the show notes. If one has a deep enough desire to eliminate conflict they will remove anything that produces that conflict. That was really the start of this conversation ryan even last week. We're talking about the news and removing things. It's not about what you should do. I don't have a prescription in terms of will hear the things that you should subscribe to and not subscribe to it simply that if there's something that is creating conflict then and you have a sincere desire. A deep desire to eliminate conflict is not say you should have a desire to by the way. Most people don't have a desire at all in fact the opposite is true. Have you been in. A relationship before ryan were bickering with sort of the the order of the day. Where it was the the way in which you communicate with each other Me too and and i realized that in parenting. That was something that i was doing as well bickering with my daughter as a put and i was creating unnecessary conflict in her. Annan me right. All kapila would say all conflict self conflict. I reworked out to say it rises from within but but when i look at at that type of conflict that i'm creating i also realized that if i don't want that conflict then i should certainly rem then it makes sense for me to remove anything that is producing the conflict right. That's minimalism right. It started with the stuff. It was creating this terrible conflict in my life but understanding that led to the action. It wasn't the other way around. It wasn't all. I picked up a book on decluttering and i learned the seven steps and now have removed the conflict from my life. No it was understanding that conflict then all the action sort of happens on. Its own after that. Yeah you can get some tips or whatever that help with the mechanics of decluttering. That's not a problem at all. Sure but the decluttering alone will not bring you tranquillity plead that podcast shawn's rate my pithy answer actually got. I just thought of another one. My first one is tranquility is not a destination so important to recognize that in what i mean by that is. It's the same thing with minimalism. It's the same thing with happiness. I mean these are tranquility. i believe is ephemeral. And as you were talking. I was kind of in my own. Little thought of like why is tranquility. Ephemeral like is it possible to live in this state of nirvana and it is but like when i think of people who have reached that state They really don't spend a lotta time around other people know by the way they can't. That's a whole different conversation right. But but one of the greatest Lies that we've we've been told. Is that like our happiness or joy is gonna come from other people know what. What's the the saying. Other people are hell laying. There is something to that. Yeah but it made me. Think about like Young people are all made me. Think of lake You ever heard of the term bodey. Sativa was like Basically it someone who has discovered how to reach nirvana but they postpone it out of the you know the valiant Feeling of wanting to help others to reach nirvana themselves. So it's. I'm not sure how much you know like bought into that term but I do understand that like to really reach. A constant state of truck tranquility. You can't be around a lot of other. People so turned. Quality is not a destination and then the other thing i thought of you know buddha talks about how life is suffering You could. I could depend that. Say life is conflict And it is. Life is conflict right in all conflict as capelle says is self conflict right and so once we recognize that for what it is that all these conflicts are arising within me. Yeah it's not the news that made me miserable yeah right. It is simply a trigger for misery to arise and so by removing those things that are triggering the misery All of a sudden. I have less conflict as a consequence. All right ryan before we get to our listener comments in our added value segment today and it looks like we've got a bunch more questions this week like how can i balance tranquillity and kids. What advice would you give to someone who is a tech enthusiasts and wants to be a minimalist. That's a that's a roundabout way that is a tranquillity question right yeah because tech often disrupts our pieces and how do you go about reducing stress and promoting tranquillity with worklife plus a million more questions about peace and tranquility for the minimalist. And if you want to hear all that listen to the minimalist private podcast this week. Visit the minimalists dot com slash support to subscribe. And get your personal link. So that our private podcasts. Plays in your favorite podcast app. If you enjoy our show and wants to support the minimalist this is the only way our podcast earns money. So come on. It's cheaper than a cup of coffee and it keeps our show. One hundred percent advertisement free plus private podcast subscribers. Also gain access to hundreds of hours of archives rimal. She got for us this week. Here are some voicemail comments and insights from our listeners. Check him out hi. This is brook from new brighton. I was calling in response episode one thirty three constraints responding to their question about wanting to travel more but stealing constraints t shirts custody of his daughter. Josh mentioned on the podcast high phony school. that was more flexible with hours absences. My suggestion garrick is to look into cyber charter schools. There are many cyber schools for kindergarten through twelfth grade. Now that are either with any state or or issue that are countrywide. I think that is something worth looking into. And provide him the flexibility Or opportunity to travel where even take his daughter with him in that case I actually work for our school in pennsylvania and lobby. I think it is a great option and it provides me flexibility. I never thought was possible. They profession and teaching. But i also see The teacher and how provides a lot of flexibility For students and they have opportunity to travel and to other things that otherwise wouldn't be possible. Hello minimalist my name. Is melania and i lived in victorville a small city in california. I just wanted to help out there. And let them know you hate daily planners and like clutterbuck and you don't like it and it's too restrictive for you like to accept a bullet journal. You can look it up on pinterest or online. I find that interest me the most creatives. But it'd help you plan out your day and you blank pages to your that interesting so i can write whatever i want on page and still high week my meals my grocery list and everything that i want all of the rest of the little knows all of you know sticking keep around. My house became a hard one place and having one book for everything. Because it's a blake burke and you get to read it in. Not only is accusing organize the very intentional. The listed on all right joe for added value segment this week. Listen to a song at the end of this episode. it's called busy and it's by the band. We spelled v. e. This is from the soundtrack to our film. Less is now nailed it. They nailed the whole sound good job. Yeah yeah it's not our soundtrack. We simply licensed it from the now ryan. The band is called. We although so nate andrew or two guys who formed the band just for us they. The music for our first film minimalism. And now they've done the the music for this newest film on that flex and they put out a music video for the song. Busy it so so good. You've got to check out because it really illustrates. How absurd businesses. Oh dude. I can't wait to perfectly illustrated now. The band itself the name is we spelled v. e. except i just recognize that drew calls it. We nate calls at v. e. Oh really and so two guys in the band say differently people often ask me pronounced vee or we i guess answer to. That is whatever you want. I'm going to call it the the drawing out the wrong. You're like could be anywhere you want except that way so yeah i call it because i think drew is the one who came up with the name so you wanna create a way because it is about a we write this collective that came together to make. We made this music. Basically was was the sort of idea behind it anyway. The song is called busy and it per the song itself which are here in. A moment perfectly illustrates the absurdity of how we just fill our days with. We inundate with nonsense and you really see it in the music video and it made me just recognize. How often do i do that. How often do i do with that. Even now i'm supposedly living intentionally trying. These are all the things that are what disrupting my tranquility. And so perhaps. Since we're talking about unfollowing i need to follow. It would make sense for me. If if if khan reducing conflict is the objective here then it makes sense for me to unfollowed some of these practices of of my past record. Four right here right now. Here's one thing that's going on in the life of the minimal so we have a lot of new listeners right now. Did you know that you can tour. Our homes. The minimalists dot com slash resources. You can find a bunch of free resources there including two video tours for ryan's home my home. You can see who's more minimalist. You'll never guess. What my favorite item is. Click here to find out if you're interested in and seeing the sort of visuals behind our homes the minimalist dot com slash resources. You can find a bunch of other free resources there. As well you can follow the minimalist on facebook. Twitter and instagram at the minimalist can follow the minimalists. Come see one of our live. Podcast shows visit the minimalist dot com slash toward find city near you. If you have a question comment or minimalism tip for our podcast. Email a voice memo to podcast at the minimalists dot com. You can comment on this episode. Youtube dot com slash the minimalists. And if you want show notes in your inbox sign up for email over the minimalist dot. Com unsubscribe anytime you'd like you'll also receive are simple sunday emails. We send those out. Just writings about minimalism and intentional living. And if you leave here today with one message but it'd be this love people use things because the opposite never works best wasn't your we'll see you next time. Empty a stopped on so own blah and no old Alice

ryan jackson joshua fields ryan nicodemus Jackson Josh kapila gupta johnson city jeff Ryan tennessee kapila mariah matt Twitter Marianne marianne nirvana gupta
Traveling Creatures: live music from the series

Dolly Parton's America

12:08 min | 1 year ago

Traveling Creatures: live music from the series

"In your hands. But I can ultra K.. Everybody Jad Deli. We are currently editing. The final episode of the series. It will drop a week from today. In the meantime I WanNa wish you all a very happy holidays and as a holiday offering offering in a token of our appreciation for listening to the series spreading the word WanNa share with you a little more music we gathered along the way mm-hmm I mean. We were super lucky on this project. We got to work with some incredible musicians who performed some songs for US shared with us some of their own work in this Bonus EP you're going to hear two different performers singer songwriters starting with the musician or a browns fan okay Nor is a very wise very old soul who is actually only fourteen years old already well oh established in the old time music scene already album will link to it from our website. We recorded her at this beautiful church in Brooklyn Saint Augustine Church really big domed and ceilings and We sat sort of right in front of the altar and She got her Banjo and played a song. Learn to play this Well I started with Man named Shlomo Pasco okay. He's based out of Brooklyn And he he started teaching me old time music when I was six but not on the mangrove gladly and then he he passed away and then then I started learning Banja. I just begin to learn the Banjo before he died. I didn't really get much starlight silence from some other people do. The song she played for us is called the very damn gone which was written by the late ballad singer. Eighty gram nor I heard it off. An album of eighty grams. Songs performed on that record by the Duet Anna Anna and Elizabeth. Here's Norris version. I just can't stop playing the song. Um Hum Uh Uh I saw. Aw Aw it Journeyman the man Jack and uh-huh uh-huh Mama in your Him then and then you. ooh ooh and MM so In you beautiful give you high five thousand. You'll hear more of Nora. In the next episode. She assisted us in creating a scene from childhood. Next musician that we want to play for us. Woman named Amethyst Kia who's based in Johnson City Tennessee not too far from Knoxville. amethyst recently collaborated with Rianne Giddens Alison Russell and Layla. Mechalle they formed. The Group are native daughters and they're just really phenomenon called songs of native daughters critically acclaimed album and we initially contacted amethyst and asked her if she'd be willing to play an old mine workers Labour Labor organizing song from West Virginia. That told the story of some of the violence that occurred in those labor camps. We didn't end up using that song because we cut the whole scene from episode seven but in the course of things amethyst ended up performing original song of hers. That like the last one from Nora just stuck so deep in my head. The song's called firewater uh-huh Melanchon it always seemed a starters comes in EH strange. They see the rue impending ministerial. It's does not all spirit and stooling Ryan so can just see Good Crowns A win. The dugout finance is that a City lights all stars. I ask see many nights. The spirits does day to live Dan Bryan in the a By now Banda film the Eh that was amethyst Kia foreing the song firewater at the Willow Tree Coffee House in Johnson city. Thanks to Terry Dosier for lending us that space record in and thank you to James Napoli for a recording and Thanks to Justin Helzer bluegrass player from our first Bonus the CPI who really connected us to Nora and Amethyst. Thanks also to SAM. Glaser doing the research and performing that mining song really bringing it to light for all of us you. You can find out more about amethyst Sonora on our website. Dolly PARTON AMERICA DOT ORG. We will be back in one week with the final episode. In the meantime happy holidays everybody.

Nora Amethyst Kia amethyst Sonora US Alison Russell Shlomo Pasco Jad Deli Dolly PARTON Brooklyn Saint Augustine Churc Jack Anna Anna browns Glaser Norris Brooklyn West Virginia Dan Bryan stooling Ryan Johnson City Tennessee
Welcome to Wise County  The Uncertain Hour season 3, episode 4

Marketplace with Kai Ryssdal

37:00 min | 2 years ago

Welcome to Wise County The Uncertain Hour season 3, episode 4

"You've heard us say that the uncertain our is produced by marketplace. But something you might not have heard is that we are a nonprofit news organization. Some of our funding comes directly from listeners like you who believed that the stories we tell and how we tell them are important and want to make it possible for us to do. More of them to support our work contribute today at uncertain our dot com. World record the cases come up with the regime versa. Jessica Ray shooter up Tober 2017. Jessica Schuler is sitting in a courtroom in wise county in the Appalachian mountains of Virginia. Green sweater, long blonde hair. Very quiet. She's twenty nine years old works as a waitress has an eleven month old baby. She's looking kind of nervous sitting beside her lawyer hands folded in her lap Schubert. Ask you stand. Please raise your right hand. You sell them with swear from test. When you give me the truth, the whole truth nothing, but the truth the giants honorable Chadwick Dotson start to reading the charges against her. Forge a check to the prejudice of another with intent to defraud to charges of forgery, plus five felony the maximum punishment of ten years in the penitentiary had you plead to that George. Company just speak up formula. But please, okay. And it goes on to charges of uttering or handing a forged check to a Bank teller getting money from the forged check. That's a grand larceny charge. Two more charges of prescription fraud guilty guilty guilty same please each time. Judge Dotson asks Jessica if she understands the charges against her if she can read the English language. Yes, she responds. She has a college degree. He asks if she has any questions. No. She says shooter explain your rights to hear these still interrupt pleaded guilty to these charges and then his tone kind of changes what happened. Why? Problems, and it's kind of hard to hear she told the judge she had a drug problem. So she wrote and cash checks in her father's name. And then she stole medication oxycodone when she was working as a registered nurse at a hospital by saying it was for a patient. Medication out for myself. These charges are four years old. The judge asks white it takes a long to get her here. Her lawyer explains Jessica didn't know there was a warrant out for her arrest till she applied for a passport when she found out. She turned herself in he tells the judge his client had a drug problem. She went to rehab. She's been sober ever. Since. Once that had been get myself into rehab. We're at gala and she had to get out of wise county to get sober. She told the judge wise county has some of the highest prescription opioid rates in the country, for example in two thousand fifteen one little town in this county had more prescriptions than residents we're talking five prescriptions for every man woman and child to break her drug habit. She moved to North Carolina where she now lives with her fiance, her stepsons and her baby. Amble on this thing because it must've been pretty bad for all this for come to this before the court sentences. You you wish to make a statement? Charges Jessica's pleading guilty to each carries. A maximum sentence of five ten even twenty years in prison, the maximum punishment could be on these charges. It's a lot. Yes. It's more time than you'd be able to serve. The judge means that if he sentences her to maximum back toback sentences, she'll never get out of prison. But this judge has a little more leeway than the judge who sentenced Keith Jackson. What happens next is up to him? Welcome back to be uncertain. Our I'm Chrissie Clarke senior correspondent from marketplace's wealth and poverty dusk. And this season. We're asking the question how do drug epidemic and over the last few episodes. We told you about the ramp up of the war on drugs during the crack epidemic of the nineteen eighties. When it was disproportionately people of color standing before judges getting long prison sentences now we're going to turn to the opioid epidemic. The biggest drug epidemic. This country has ever known. It started with prescription painkillers and his evolved to include drugs like heroin and sentinel. It has lasted longer than the crack epidemic. It's hit more communities, and it's hurt many more people, including many more white people like Jessica Schuler. We'll get back to her story later on over the next few episodes. We're going to look at some of the ways the country is still reckoning with tough on drug crimes policies set decades ago back then there was widespread. Agreement that the laws needed to get tougher. Among both Democrats and Republicans today. The opposite is true. Both Republicans and Democrats have worked to roll back some of those same policies, but if you don't fight an epidemic with law enforcement. What do you do instead for the next few episodes were returning to wise county Virginia a place that struggling to recover from a tidal wave of drug addiction to see what's changed? And what hasn't and to ask. What might stop the deadliest drug epidemic ever to hit this country? We went to wise county last season on the uncertain. Our when we were asking the question how did the opioid epidemic start and in that episode, which you should check out, by the way, our producer? Caitlyn went to wise county to see how the early and lax regulation of prescription painkillers played out. Now, she's going back to catch up with the people. She met back then and with one guy in particular because his story is the story of wise history shows what happened there, and she wanted to know how it turned out for him and a lot of other people like him. So I'm going to hand the story over to kaitlin now. And a warning this episode does have a few swear words in it. The guy I wanted to catch up with is Joey Ballard a copy. No, I told me about him. The cop said, no one knows local drug markets better than this guy. He was on pain pills. I busted my few times. But he's sober. Now. You gotta talk to Joey Joey had left wise. So a few days later, I drove about two hours across the Tennessee border to meet him in the parking lot of discount tobacco store. I had no idea what Joey looked like. So he texted me a picture of his face scruffy beard and light Brown hair black glasses and a white t shirt. It was the spring of twenty seventeen early on a Sunday morning. And it was Joyce forty second day off of drugs. Well, all drugs, except for pot a pretty big deal since he'd been using drugs for most of the past fifteen years as I pulled into the parking lot. I saw him standing alone. The lot was deserted except for one other car. The car pulled away when I arrived suspicious. I thought I found out later. It was Joey's mother in that car. She was so worried that he was sneaking off to buy drugs that she followed him over that spring and summer I interviewed Joey a couple of times we would drive to a park ready. Tell me where we are getting a level for you. We're in Johnson city, Tennessee, we'd sit at a picnic table in the shade surrounded by lots of grass and trees. That's pretty much it and that sound is crooked. You hear? Did you hear? Some of it's. Joey grew up in wise county, and he spent most of his life there around the same people. It's a police he describes as. Spec on the map. Joey's dad was a mechanic his mother worked in a sewing factory for a while then stayed home with the kids. There wasn't a whole lot to do. In wise county when Joey was a teenager on the weekends. He drive around with friends hang out at WalMart smoke a little pot, and when he was in high school in the late nineties early two, thousands pain pills, flooded wise county graduated. It's all I mean, it was everywhere you could order online. If you wanted them, you could go down the street and get them. Then matter you, get them wherever you wanted to. Let me just say because you'll hear Joey refer to drugs by name Lord tab, Oxycontin, Percocet. These are all pain pills prescription opioids by the early two. Thousands wise had them all when Joey was about twenty. He met a woman at work. Just young love is what it was young Louis. Brought more less they dated for a little while then got married. She was the step daughter of a local AUSSIE contin dealer. The wedding gift from Joey's new father in law to the young couple with cash and Oxycontin, the first time I ever did anonymously split at twenty milligram peel with my wife. Puke for three hours off and all three hours Ha's hail. Give a lot of people feeling of euphoria and a sense of well being and if you crush pills and snort them like Joey was doing you get the full impact of the drug all at once along with a megadose of the drugs common side effects, nausea and vomiting. Of course today, we all know how it dictate opioids can be but back in the early two thousands, Joey didn't fully realize the risky was taking Oxycontin was much stronger than any drug he'd ever tried. It's similar to heroin. I mean, it was just it blew my mind. Like it was such a good high. And it's funny though, you would think oh, well, this is gonna make me throw up. What's not take it common sense? I bet probably the first. Kinder- fifteen times, I took Oxy or snorted Oxy. I threw every. Soon. Joey developed a tolerance and stopped puking. He didn't realize it at the time. But he was slipping deeper into drug use getting high on the weekends. Then every day soon. Joey was driving his new father in law to a gas station in Knoxville once a month to meet his dealer. No, absolutely. No exaggeration. Five minutes. Turnaround drawback. He would come back with five or six hundred pills. And I'm like how hail's he do like using. No any and it's literally just a drop off you pay for gas food. Get us hollow Tom and then give us like ten eighties eighties refers to ten Oxycontin with eighty milligrams of oxycodone in a pill. That's really strong, by the way, for example. If you get your wisdom teeth pulled at the dentist, you might be prescribed bottle of pills each with five milligrams of oxycodone the eighties. Joe is talking about are sixteen times strong for a lot of people addiction began in the doctor's office after tooth was pulled or a leg was broken. And a lot of pills that were sold on the street started out as legitimate prescriptions. Resold by middleman dealers throughout the two thousands before prescription monitoring programs are really common. You could visit doctors in different states and get several prescriptions or Jinya Kentucky, Tennessee, you could hit up three pill mills in an afternoon. Joey's father in law would by hundreds of pain pills in Knoxville, and then Joey would drive him back to the Appalachian mountains of Virginia to sell the going price for Oxycontin, then was a dollar milligram. So a single eighty milligram pill would fetch eighty bucks eventually Joey graduated from drunk driver too small time drug dealer. He started out buying prescriptions on the street. So I could get a script lowered had tens say there's ninety them. On the street. That's not hundred dollars. If I can bought for five hundred dollars. I make four hundred dollars or I can make my money back and then make you know, forty repeals forty free pills. Joey wasn't getting rich as a drug dealer. He was getting by basically supporting his own addiction when he was in his mid twenties. Joey started getting his pain pills directly from doctor. It was lower tab at the time which is an opioid, and he was also getting muscle relaxers actually do have back problems. I mean, I really do they did anymore. They found out that I do have something wrong with my my spine like I have Bolton disk and all that in six months, the doctor quadrupled his prescription from forty five pills a month to one hundred eighty I wasn't in that much pain. You know, no way. Joey wasn't the only one in town getting more pain pills than he needed? That I couldn't sell anything because everybody had something like I was one of the doctor you're going to the doctor and one of the doctor. We don't need help each other. Joey's Dr eventually did get shut down by law enforcement, Joey is transferred to a new doctor. We'll a first time. I saw the doctor the guy looks at me. And he's like, I'm not rotten your muscle relaxer. Okay. He's like it's habit forming. I looked at him. Like the most puzzling way. I'm like you write me a hundred and eighty lower tabs, but you're not going to rob me the muscle relaxer because it's habit forming like. Something doesn't sound like you know, what I mean? Like, obviously lower tabs have it for me. We know this by now, it's two thousand ten at that time like we know it's habit forming, but you're not gonna rot me the most relaxing. Okay. I got news worry, Mike. My money was coming from the Lord. I have not the not the Muslim relaxer. Anyway, Joey use drugs and sold on the side for years, even as people he knew started Odeon and dying. He remembers this one guy a friend of his wife's we'd just hung out with him would drop them off at his friend's house. We left and then the next morning, she got a phone call. And he died he was like twenty twenty one clock right around my age had just had one baby and had another one on the way. What was that like a major warning to or did it just seem like interesting like regular day as satisfied is? And like it makes you sound cold hearted in a way. But like it was just it got so regular there for a while. It's like. Are. So did you continue to do Oxycontin after that? We did an Oxy. That morning before we went to his funeral. Maintaining an addiction takes work a lot of planning and hustling there were days when Joey couldn't get any pills like when he'd burned through his monthly supply early or when his prescription was stolen. How many towns while went dope? Sick because I have had any drugs more times than I could ever tell you. And this is what happens when your body goes into withdrawal. I'll just list some of the symptoms muscle pain diarrhea nausea, vomiting, sweating, anxiety, insomnia. I talked to one woman who detox in jail thousands of women to a pod one bathroom, no privacy. She couldn't leave the toilet. You get the idea. It's hell I'm like the first time that the that Ivy talks. There's two weeks mile off. I don't even remember. I mean, it's just that bad like. All I remember is just sleeping. That's it. That's all. That's all. I can do is sleep. And I would like the worst the worst stomach pains you could ever imagine like the worst stomach flu you could ever get in the world. In a way, Joey was one of the lucky ones, he managed to get sober and get away, but a lot of his friends and acquaintances weren't so lucky just looking back through like a yearbook and seeing how many people that I went to school with you know. You know, it's not been that long ago. I mean, not really how many people are dead. From drug overdose. In wise county. Nearly everyone has lost someone or know someone who's lost someone to drugs. It is one of the highest drug overdose death rates in the state. What happened in wise to Joyce classmates into Joey happened to a lot of people in small towns and cities across the country. The pain pills that flooded these places are harder to get now. But they're trail of devastation is still visible across the country. People who got addicted to pain pills have turned to other drugs like heroin, Fenton hill or methamphetamine every person. I talked to unwise had a story about drugs. I heard about it from nurse practitioners. We see the patients when they come in. Here. We see the ones that come in looking like skeletons, and they've had the may and you can see the skin or we see their children that are now being raised by great grandparents, not just grandparents, but great grandparents, and we see that. And we see the tremendous burden that it's putting on the society here. I heard about it from business owners who can't hang onto their workers. We go through me in higher or other people show up for a couple of days. Okay. And then they show up under the influence, and and we'd have to send them home. Symptom. It was three or four day. I heard about it from lawyers who represent children in foster care. The saddest thing I've seen is a mother losing her kids because she's on drugs. Because they will scream and cry and they will tell you. I'll do anything to get my kids back, but they won't most of the time. I'd say like ninety percent of the time. They will not get their kids back. Because they can't stop drugs. It breaks your heart. He wasn't always this way. That's next after the break. In politics. People often tell you not to get lost in the weeds. But the weeds by vox is a podcast for people who love the weeds because that's where politics becomes policy the stuff that shapes your life and the lives of the people you care about each week. Matthew yglesias is joined by a rotating cast of leading vox voices to dig into the weeds on important issues. We think you're gonna love the show. And if you're already subscribed, you should check out some of their recent episodes. So what are you waiting for listen and subscribe to FOX's the weeds for free on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening. Why's county is rural made up of many small towns of a few thousand people. It's a beautiful place with roads that wind through mountains thick with trees overlooks with views for miles rundown, but charming main streets neat little homes with rocking chairs out front. Wise county is almost entirely white. It's always been poor about twenty percent of people live below the poverty line people. Here tend to be sicker and die younger than people in northern Virginia. Many families have lived in the same towns for generations. There's a lot of pride in that. And that pride is on display every weekend of every summer for the past fifty five years when community actors put on a play for hundreds of people. Performed on an outdoor stage with a creek running through it. You can hear the sounds of wind and distant thunder, bats are flying overhead. The place called trail the lonesome pine, it's the region's origin story set to music. Some of the actors have been performing in it for the past ten even twenty years. The play is based on the historical novel of the same name. Sponde- multiple movies, including nineteen thirty six version. Starring Henry Fonda. It tells the story of how coal was discovered in the Appalachian mountains. Koa red yester- fortune to be having these nouns gotta keep looking you ever seen any Kodak yet here for? Kale birds? I can't. Where'd you? About five book, dick, no part. No, part handsome, mining engineers swoops in and mountain girl is forced to choose between the old traditional way of life and the way of the future mining spoiler alert, she chooses the mining engineer and the whole region chose mining. It completely transform the economy for the next hundred years it brought an influx of jobs and built an economy of extraction today. There's a WalMart small university a couple of hospitals and a four lane that is a highway with two lanes in each direction. It's been huge for getting around the region. The coal industry has declined. It's a sliver of what it once was. And the population is declining to still this is a place that people love that people want to save the folks that live here, very hard working very determined. If I can say anything about the people in Atlanta. They help one another see community in Noah community that I grew up in that is strong faith based rarely did we lock our doors without grandmother Eastleigh her screen door open all the time. They're quick to help. But they're also quick Dalil. It's a place that people love with some undeniable problems. I heard so many people say that the opioid crisis has touched every single family. I found that's no exaggeration. My husband lower at home. We've got a knock on the door. It was a police officer told us that our daughter was in the hospital and said, it's not good. That's gleam a Walker. She's fifty one years old. So now remember praying all the way to the hospital. God just please don't let it. Lemas daughter had been hanging out with a friend doing drugs at deadly mix of methadone and benzodiazepine which is a Saturday of when she overdosed. We got to the hospital friend of the family. She was a nurse that was on duty there. She looked at me. And she shook her head. She said gleam, she almost didn't make it. Her daughter's heart stopped twice that night. But she didn't die when I talked to gleam up her daughter. Angela was there sitting across the table nodding as her mother talked about that day. She doesn't know what it's like seeing your child laying in a hospital bed, and no one almost died. It's like I said it breaks your heart in two because you didn't raise them to be like that shortly after that overdose. Angela managed to get sober on her own. That's not a good loft to live at all. I just wanted to different lawf-. So I I mean, I had to do something for myself and us aside thing, you know, a lot of people don't have the strength to do that. Angela was pregnant with her first child when I talked to her. She was doing well living with her fiance and excited about motherhood, but gleaming was still getting over the death of her brother who did several years ago and glee miss son. Angela's brother is in and out of jail on drug charges. He happened to be in jail when I talked to them. I asked him about that. Honestly, I'll tell you what I told my son think it's a good thing. If jail is what it takes to make you open your eyes and make you see what you're doing a said, then it's good. Thank my son might be said to hear me say that. But as a mother, it's it's a relief to know he somewhere where he's not long get drugs overdose. And die. I don't wanna see him. Did luck dimmer brother? Just don't want to see happen. And whatever it takes to change him. A want him to change? Gleam was born and raised in this area. She's watched it transform around her when I was growing up. It was you know, you see people drinking every once in a while or you seem build a bonfire and the guys will gather round, and they would drink or sometimes she would hear of somebody smoking pot. I do not know why changed so drastically over the years it just same one person. Right after the other started getting addicted escalate talking, she's reflecting asking herself and her daughter, what happened here something I was thinking about back when the coal business was going really well here there wasn't as much diction. Here. The coal mines workers that had been injured started going to the doctor right around the time. I think it was in the late nineties early two thousands. They started going to the doctor if they had issues the doctors were readily available to prescribe the Oxycontin, they want. To push it on everybody. So they did that. But that's where it all started around. Here was in the coal moans. Hey, you know, this you want to try to help you out stuff like that. Where the coal business has gone down so much because the Konami, you know, I mean that was a big part of our economy. Here is seems like it's it's gotten worse since then I mean, it seems really bad since nobody has jobs like the had before. Let me just pause him in it and say experts still debate the exact causes of drug epidemic. There are some factors that definitely play a role the economy, for example, as gleam appoints out loss of major industry loss of jobs. Those things put a community at risk of experiencing drug epidemic. That was true back in the eighties with crack, and it's true today with opioids, but the most important factor in this crisis. A lot of experts say is the sudden supply prescription painkillers as Angela points out and places like wise, the market was flooded. And that created a lot of addiction Christopher room is a professor of public policy and economics at the university of Virginia. If we haven't flooded the country with these very strong opioids, and you know, most of these opioids are are chemically almost identical to heroin, or in some cases, they're stronger if we hadn't put those out in the market, we wouldn't have seen these. Death. So that wouldn't have been that these were people trying to kill themselves. It was they were at risk. And when we spread this this risky factor. The drugs, they're the ones who suffered the most. There are other factors that seem to be important like the concentration of physical labor intensive jobs that can lead to injury pain also economic incentives for drug dealing immigration areas with more immigrants have fewer drug overdose deaths though, it's unclear why demographics access to healthcare and racial disparities in prescribing patterns, for example, African Americans and Latinos are more likely to report experiencing severe pain most of the time than whites. But African Americans Latinos are less likely to receive any pain medication at all. When they do. It's at lower doses. Research suggests that white people are more likely to be believed when they're in pain. They're more likely to be prescribed opioids for migraines in. Ars for example, and for lower back pain. For many years throughout the early and mid two thousands. It was largely white people dying from opioid overdoses, but since two thousand fourteen the rate of African Americans dying from opioid overdoses has skyrocketed increasing at a rate much faster than that of whites in some cities, like Washington DC more than eighty percent of people who Odeon die from opioids are black. So these are the factors that put a community at risk of drug epidemic. And once it hits, it's really hard to stop. Chatting about what's going on one day. When I was in wise county, I stopped by a food city grocery store, there were a couple of volunteers standing next to a rack of potted plants did put out a big banner that said got drums. Four this'll be the poor fullback that we've taken today, we are getting some pain medicines into been zoysia opiates. So so we're getting a little bit everything, and we most we don't people came by all morning dropping off painkillers and other drugs from their medicine cabinets. Leftover from relatives who died or from past surgeries the volunteers filled for garbage bags that morning. But even if you could collect every prescription that's been written here. The addiction at started with those pills wouldn't go away. As sources for pain pills. Dry up people move on to other drugs opiates like heroin feno. And in some towns stimulants like math. That's what happened to Joey. He says the meth high is different high. But it is a high and math is cheap and abundant. It's crazy. 'cause I said I'll never do that. Never. But like I could tell it was literally changing the person that I was like, I'm pretty soft hearted person. I was booking starting to get angry. At should I shouldn't get angry at you know, like that was another reason I was like, okay, look either you can stay here and keep doing shit that you're doing or you can finally really try and get out of it. That's. To get out of that world to break his addiction. He had to leave wise on knew that if I didn't do something. I was going to end up back in trouble with the police or that the turning point came slowly. Then all at once when Joey was thirty three years old. It was probably a good three or four months of just like being depressed. And like just hating myself for the most part to realize that. Okay. I really need to get my shit like something has to change. So one day in the spring of twenty seventeen Joey moved in with his mom about an hour and twenty minutes away from his hometown across the state line in Tennessee. He got a job at a cellphone store. Weaned himself off a pain medicine quit using meth. It is by far the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Absolutely hardest thing I've ever done for Joey drugs are never far from his mind. Even as he takes a sip from a drink with a plastic straw can see cut straw land on the ground and other people would just walk past it thing. Oh, it's just trash on the ground. I see like see like a cut up straw like this much of a straw cut somewhere. I know that that is not been per. I know exactly what that's forward as he walks through the world. Joey sees it differently that cuts straw. It's for snorting crushed up pills. Driving by Wal-Mart reminds him of meth you can buy Sudafed there. You know what? I mean. Like, that's how you it's. It's just how you bring keeps working. But. Other than that like. You just had to have this mindset like, and it's so true. You have to distance yourself from the people you're around that distance was working by the summer of twenty seventeen his life was slowly getting better yet, a new girlfriend. He saved up in bought a car. That's the craziest thing. People hate going to the store whatever or hate going out and doing this or that. But like when you've not had a car and you walked for year. Miles and miles and miles. It is fabulous to be able to walk down to my car. Getting my car and drive down the road and Bob cigarettes. Come back to the house like love it. It's denied rely on anybody to worry about any getting here. They're just go do it. And it's it's great really is. That summer in Johnson city, Joey was hopeful. But he was also worried that sobriety wouldn't last that he'd relapse. I don't want to go back to us county. You know? I hope that never have to go back over there for anything be honest, because I know them gonna run into somebody that I know, and if I'm by myself, and I've got money my pocket like I'm still at that stage where. Almost scares me to have a job and know that I have regular money coming in because I'm so used to spending all that money out. And like, that's what scares me. I'm afraid one day. Something's going to happen. And I'm not gonna be able to say, no. And it scares the shit. I mean, it really does. Recovery can be messy for most people. It takes multiple tries to get off drugs. And some people never do next episode for here. What happened when Joey did go back to wise, and we'll hear what happened to just Schuler the woman who forged checks to Peter drug habit. I feel awful for the things. I'd done was not raised that way on this. Not who I am. But that's who I was while on the drugs. And I mean, they took a hold appoved, Joey if you don't chill out, and you don't get the mail. You're going to you're going to be killed or you want to. How is that received? I know it. So we do. That's coming up from the next uncertain. Our? That's it. But this episode think so much for listening. We did a whole story last season about the roots of the opioid crisis. The regulations that brought Oxycontin to market in a way that downplayed the dangers of addiction and death. If you haven't heard it already, you should check it out. It's called the sentence that helped set off the opioid crisis. This episode of the uncertain. Our was reported by Caitlyn ash the uncertain. Our is produced by me, Chrissy Clark and Caitlyn Nash along with associate producer, Peter. Valentine rosen. Production assistant, any Reese and digital producer, Tony Wagner. Then Hess coat is our video producer mixing and sound design by Jake Gorski, additional production help from Lyra Smith. Our podcast is edited by Kathryn winter sitar Nevis is the executive director of demand at marketplace. Deborah Clark is the senior vice president and general manager special things to Nancy for golly, Tommy Andres, and Betsy Streisand, you can see photos of wise on our website, marketplace dot org or on Instagram and Facebook, we also produced a series of videos. Introducing you to wise and the people who live there. They're really beautiful, and you should definitely check them out on our YouTube channel where marketplace APM on all those platforms. In certain hours. Supported by the Annie E, Casey foundation, dedicated to creating a brighter future for the nations. Children more at eighty c F dot org.

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Wednesday with Walton  February 3, 2021

Scoops with Danny Mac

13:02 min | 3 weeks ago

Wednesday with Walton February 3, 2021

"It's a wednesday as we always do. Visit with brian. walton of the cardinal nation dot com. And we'll get to that in just a moment also with the news of nolan renato. There's all kinds of coverage on the website scoops who danny mac dot com included in. There is the great articles of burn mickley. So make sure you check that out the doctors a blue tail medical groups. Some of the nation's top experts in the fields of sports medicine stem cell regenerative therapies. So if you're thinking about getting surgery shoulder surgery. Knee surgery whatever. The case may be before you do that. Make sure you call doctors bays crane and wolf. They are experts in stem cell. Regenerative technology doctors from all over the country traveled to chesterfield valley to learn how they're doing it so whether you're a high school athlete of that or your joints have been worn by age arthritis or old injuries. Your body still has the ability to heal itself before you think about surgery to schedule an appointment. Six three six seven seven eight thousand nine hundred six three six seven seven eight twenty nine hundred visit them at blue tail. Medical group dot com. It is a wednesday in. It's a chance to visit with brian. walton of the car donation dot com. And this has been talked about for really just rumored for probably the last. I don't know year year and a half. could it actually happened nolan. Annatto whiny up in saint louis. It has happened. He is now in the fold for years to come for the saint louis cardinals and let's get into it with brian. Walton of the cardinal nation dot com. Brian good morning to you. It's hard to believe. Nolan auto is officially a saint louis cardinal. What's your reaction. I'm still stern dan. I mean when this came back into the news it was sorta like. Oh here we go again. We're gonna go through these crazy. Rumors in the contract is just impossible to trade in the cardinals got down payroll payroll neutral trades. And here's a million reasons why it couldn't happen draw valid but yet somehow jambos airlock certainly with the backing of bill with junior is in his money. Found a way to get it done. I'm i'm still stunned. I'm just stunned. The fifty to fifty one million coming back to offset some of the salary. The fact that you don't have a top prospect in there for the most part. It's it's austin gombar. Who'd spins curve balls that that's a facet that surprises me. If you're gonna pick somebody else or somebody else from that roster. I'm not taking a guy that spins curb balls at his best pitch. That hasn't been talked about i. Just i'm just every part of this. I just i don't understand it. I'm happy as a guy that covers the cardinals. I think the fan base clearly is thrilled here in town but try to break this down for me. Brian i mean what is you evaluate this. Why do you think it took place. I because to me they could have held onto him. You know he was going to opt out. That was made pretty clear. They they knew that was going to happen but they didn't. Why do you think this happened. That's a good question dan. i don't know i. I also thought that they would wait and hold onto him and you know go for a package at the deadline. But you know i mean you mentioned is to convert obviously a guy who's done done well in the major leagues but his whole history and the miners was he was homerun prone that if he didn't locate what. Got the ball up. You got the ball game got hammered and so i think that was a risky pick for them. You know in chorus field. Yours montero third baseman Power back you know he could. I don't think he's going to be another rainy. Arose arena but yeah he's got some power but let's face it even though he was a top ten player in montero was the second best third baseman. And he wasn't it wasn't like he was going to overtake nolan government. So you know he's a good player but not a guy that's going to hurt. The cardinals long-term future and then the other guys are just you know are so far away from the majors. Alaska is not even really a prospect. That it's it's just amazing that they not only got aeronautical they got the money with it. That gets them through Twenty twenty one without having to break their break their plan to cut down payroll and not give up major players on top of it. It's just it's just amazing. In fact and i want to share it announced. We've you know this is a place for scoops right. Oh yeah yes sir i. I decided that. I'm going to end my writing career. I'm going to add my podcast kareem. Sorry dave but this reminds. Because i'm going to go and copyright the name golden morocco and i am going to sell merchandise and retire a wealthy man. It's done. i'm going to do it. Yeah i i would think so. You're gonna make a lot of money. I think so. It's over so i appreciate you doing your final podcast here. The point the point. I'm trying to make their obviously the series point behind. That is paul. Goldschmidt is going to be a better player with aaron idol in the lineup next to him. There's no doubt about it. We saw we saw other teams pitch very use audio every night. You know pitch very carefully around goldschmidt. Because there wasn't anybody like him in the wrestler. I've got around poco schmit. You probably won't get through the cardinals offense. Okay that's going to change and you know it's an you know. They don't necessarily need his defense at first base when when they're not playing but still you know i think those two on the corners of the infield are to be a delight and i think they're gonna make each other better and the cardinals better on top of it absolutely I want to get into a couple of the prospects that they gave up. You mentioned monteiro. We talked about gombar. What about low see gill and summers those. Three one or two right handed pitchers in the other one gillis shortstop what are they giving up their some rounder they. They drafted and put them in johnson city. Which is a a low level league for college player. Immediate fine for yara not not really not really prospect. He's throwing guy Benji benji gil was a major league shortstop for a long time mostly with texas rangers and You know he's a material kill coastal baseball family guy. Carlos got into third round back in two thousand eighteen and he also played johnson city but he was only like eighteen the time so last year. He's nineteen now he's twenty so he was a guy that we would have expected to see probably at class a palm beach. Start the year and you know. He has some definite potential. He's not as good defensively as dublin peres but he has a better bat. So you know he's the guy that you know. What if you could could reach the major leagues nba contributor The other plan trade. Tony locie was another third. Rounder i guess iraqis decided they the carnage third rounders. And he's he's big. he's a big on guy. Fastball slider guy. he only played a partial season. Came to the university of georgia only played a partial season. But he struck out twenty eight and fifteen innings and so he's a guy that his third pitches a little bit questionable but if they decide to make him a reliever he could get fast track to the majors. And i think when all said and done done tone those he might be the best player over the long haul in this entire trade. We'll see i'm really really fascinated because we. I think we all agree that we think the eventually whether it's this year or next year whatever the case may be the coming so there is a pathway to the big leagues for nolan gorman. But now he's blocked by are not. Oh he's blocked over on the other side by goldschmidt. Where where else do you think that that nolan could play. And and do you think they start asking them to switch a position going into spring training. Yeah i think. I still think we'll see the d. h. this year. I think you know as we've talked about probably nauseam in these talked you know the d. h. was rolled up in so any other decisions that it didn't get done but if they decide as break things out and that's one that everybody wants to do and you know they should for the betterment of the players for the game figure it out for this year but you know matt carpenter be that primary guy at least against right handed hitters but you know they answer question longer term on gorman. You know the the first thing. I thought it was g. Can he plays second base if carpenter as tall as is play second base because that's obviously a potential place for him. The the most obvious solution. If you're gonna play him in a field is probably in a corner outfield. maybe field But you know we don't know yet. What the cardinals are going to do. But i think it's just wonderful that they held onto him. Because if i've been jeopardy niche and the colorado rockies in my heels and said we make intrigue nolan government you know obviously the amount of money that goes back and forth you know has has an impact on the quality of prospects. But i just. I'm just amazed at the car again at the cardinals. Didn't have to give up. Any of their what. I would call their big six. Which is gordon labor tour harare. Carlson thomson jordan walker. I i think it was wonderful trade. Yeah absolutely they're getting just rave reviews across the board. Now the question is will. We have spring training starting on time and the players association couple of nights ago said thanks but no thanks rejecting the one fifty four. Even though you're gonna give us one sixty to pay We're reporting on time which is about two weeks from now what do you think how do you think the chips fall. Would this gun some reading. There's folks on social media who are had experience in labor law or questions about whether the players the players didn't have to do anything because the cba and the agreements that were made the plus the agreements that were made last year pretty much defined exactly what was going to happen but the the owners wanted a variance and they did have the strength of the requests from the state of arizona to start a month later as well and let's face it you know. The owners were the ones that have the most to gain by delayed. Start the better chance that they could fill up the ballparks and and of course the issue of expanded playoffs was really the big route because the initial proposal from the owners was to basically get the players the same amount of money that they got the same share of the pie from extended plastic. They got last year even though. The chances are of course much better. When we get around october that there will be some number of fans in ballpark. So there's a financial aspect and but you know the the big cloud. It's kind of overarching. Everything that's involved in discussions between players and owners the next cba right that cooperative bargaining agreement that governs the the the way that players are compensated and move and all that they agreement expires in december. And the next five years are going to be bait defined unhealthiest next agreement gets put in place and so unfortunately the non playing field part of baseball is going to be predominant in the headlines. I think throughout the entire year or twenty twenty one. Yeah i really do i. It looks like brian. We're we're gonna get spring training on time whether we agree with it wherever you stand with it but you know the numbers are up. Covert numbers are up in arizona. Obviously florida the state itself is opened up. But it does look like we're gonna to have spring training start on time right and there'll be some unfortunately for the fans you know. I think the the access to the backfield's to watch players work out. You know that the you know because one of the joys of spring training is in. it's it's less structured right. You can actually get close to the players and the coaches and kind of feel like you're almost a part of the action. I think all that is is not going to happen this year. There's an of course. They'll be social distancing in the seating arrangement so instead of seven. Thousand in roger dean. It'll probably be more like two thousand or something like that but there will be baseball. Hopefully we'll be able to ski See your face and hear your voice. On on the telecast when when those get announced god willing we are hoping that. What's what's happening right now. At the cardinal nation dot com. Well the biggest thing that's going on right now. Is that Up to my eyeballs working on the cardinals nation prospect guide for twenty twenty one. I opened up pre sales yesterday. And the will i if everything goes well then. It'll depend on the printer as well. That will be shipping it by the end of the month two hundred pages on the prospects in the system and just tons of details. You can't get anywhere else for example if you wanna know who has the better throwing arm dylan call gorman or who has a better curveball between laboratory thomson you can find that out in a in a snap just tons and tons of detail. You can't get anywhere else in in one place on all the top minor leaguers in the cardinals system and that's now on sale for preorders prospect. Yeah that's a great resource for those watch. The games especially in spring training but those at Cover the minor leagues or watch minor league baseball throughout the season. As always brian great stuff and i tell everyone. Head to the cardinal nation dot com will catch up next wednesday. If you're still up you know doing podcast in writing. If you haven't made it rich yeah probably. It may take me awhile for the money to really start to flow in so i guess we can. We can go on for another weekend. Oh by the way you know we could have something to talk about because most said yesterday in the media. Sure you heard him. I mean he's threw out the bone that we're not done yet and so he wouldn't have just said that about your molina and motza very cautious guy so for him to say that you know he's certainly created an explication you may have another rabbit or two in the hat. Look forward to that. That's brian walton of the cardinal nation dot com.

cardinals nolan government brian nolan renato chesterfield valley saint louis cardinals walton montero goldschmidt aaron idol johnson city poco schmit nolan Brian dan Benji benji gil Tony locie nolan gorman saint louis matt carpenter
Wednesday with Walton  January 13, 2021

Scoops with Danny Mac

19:24 min | Last month

Wednesday with Walton January 13, 2021

"Welcome in two scoops. With danny mac dot com. I visit with brian walden of the car. Donation dot com. Lot to get into with brian as we'll talk about. Maybe some changes in the game of baseball and update on carlos martinez. And what may happen with the minor leagues delayed. Hey a reminder here on the website burning nicholas is writing daily with the bits. So if you missed bernie. Miklaszewski is writing daily monday. Through friday and scoops. Danny mac dot com also our first episode on fox two scoops. The television show is up and running as well so if you go to the website you can find that television program is well. We had bernie for dirk. Oh chris pronger and burning nicholas on the first edition and that was a blues preview. Hey the doctor's a blue tail medical group or some of the nation's top experts in the fields of sports medicine and stem cell regenerative therapies. When people hear about sports medicine they think the disabled list. So they're thinking surgery and the surgery to replace joints so that they can throw a football. They're going to be out for six months. They're going to be out for a long time. Blue tail medical group can be a great alternative to orthopedic surgery doctors bays crane wolf experts in stem cell regenerative technology doctors. From all over the country they travel right here to saint louis to find out how they do it. They can help you. They are experts in the world at what they do. So whether you're a high school athlete a veteran your joints have been worn by age arthritis. Injuries your body still has the ability to heal itself so let the let the doctors at blue tail medical group show you. How schedule and appointment today. Six three six seven seven eight twenty nine hundred six three six seven seven eight two thousand nine hundred visit them. See what they offer just for you at blue tail. Medical group dotcom wednesday. And let's visit with brian. Walton of the car donation dot com does a great job covering the cardinals minor league system the cardinals in baseball. As a whole and brian. Let's hope we've got a little movement with major league baseball. I don't know about you. But i i woke up yesterday with a little hope a little spring thinking that maybe spring training is around the corner. What did you think of the news at the players in and major league baseball memo sent out. That said hey report on time. We're going to get a hundred sixty two in at least we're going to try. But what did you think when you heard the news well. It was the best news. I received on a monday in a long time. To tell you the truth because the general the general perception was that ownership wanted to delay the start of the season and we all understand why the longer we wait the more we learn about the virus more people get vaccinated the better chance that people can go to stadiums and pay for tickets and concessions and everything else and that's normal logical however the players had come out very clearly players union and and Andrew miller carlos is one of the leaders of that group from the player perspective said. Hey we're playing sixty two. We're ready to come and baseball. Apparently looked around and said hey you know all these sports are playing. You know if we try to say we can't play you know we're going to have a hard time with that. And so they basically have said. Hey you know get rich. Show up on time in february for spring training and plan on one sixty two now. The the news came out. I think on tuesday yesterday was that mlb fouled that up with very specific guidelines to teens regarding Health and safety rules that would allow fans to attend games. Perhaps as early spring training. And you know it's going to be more like we saw in the world series. Where i don't know what they get like eleven ten eleven twelve thousand fans in the ballpark and they in sokoto sort of pods. Sixty two part but you know. Even a quarter capacity of the stadium is a huge huge improvement over what owners had in twenty twenty In the twenty twenty season so know. The news is guardedly optimistic when the players and the owners are saying the same thing. You're the perfect guy to ask about this now. As we get to spring training we may see the minor league season delayed. And i can understand that. You're trying to limit the amount of people inside a complex around each other inside the clubhouse. I totally get it so i think i think not formally announced but i think that's a pretty much a fate accomplish so when they start playing you gotta wonder how protective teams are going to be with their arms much less with the major league team but with the minor league guys. We're talking young kids. Some of these kids just out of high school just out of college all of a sudden last year. Their season is shutdown. It made me think about maybe the piggyback system. We've heard that before. And maybe you can explain to the fans. The cardinals have done this in the past to some success. Some people like it. Some people don't and i wonder if you can explain it to the average fan out there and if you like it and if you think the the cardinals and as an industry we're going to see a lot of that with these minor league teams well. First of all yes scattered. Minor league season triple eight may start on time in april but double a. will follow in may or june and then the rookie level gulf coast league would be after seasons are going to be truncated as you mentioned. Most of those pictures did not have anything resembling normal flowing. Workloads at two thousand twenty. Yeah the cardinals programs. But you can't tell me that's the same as going to springfield and throwing one hundred and fifty innings against you know high quality pitching. It's just there's no way that they that what they missed last year can be replicated. So there's going to be allowed concern about managing arms in managing workloads to make sure that players in fact we saw at the major league level as well where you know maybe some personnel but where tampa bay would you know have scarred. And then they'd have a middle innings sky and then a lady sky so you know that's the kind of thing you could see much more specialization. Much more shorter outings. But your question specifically tandem or another term that you hear piggyback. It's the same. Basic idea is when two starters are put on the same throwing schedule it. We see a lot in spring training with majorly clip. Where you know you saying. Well jack clarity is going to start. The game dakota hudson's going to take over in the fourth or fifth inning and the idea there is of course by having a defined number of innings or really a number of pitches the work can be managed much more carefully but also as importantly you can have twice as many starters in the pipeline because one of the things that they approach does normally is that as i mentioned the flare hudson example. Jack scarves this time around in hudson follows in five days they flip flop and hudson's starter inflated fouls now. He doesn't matter because they still get ready to same way. They still knowing they start in come. In baseball players routine oriented so this way it kinda helps everybody and a way to put this into perspective. Dan the cardinal as everybody knows the cardinals paired to minor league teams out of their organization for this year. Stay college johnson city. If you look at how those rosters are defined. Today there's still players on those rosters that don't exist and i'm just doing a quick count of the pictures right now. I think the number seventeen. There are seventeen pitchers who are on a state college at johnson city rosters. Who right now. Don't have a place to go right. So then a number of them are are are stars. Guys were just drafted this last year. But now prater so good quality guys and if you just said memphis greenfield peoria palm beach. Only have five starters each. That's only twenty starters for the entire system other than rookie level. And that's not enough. You need more guys to get those innings any more guys to start a sort out. Who are the guys that are gonna make the major leagues. You'll later because it's not obvious. In every case who are the guys that are going to be major league stars. They need that. Oh it's so and this was a concept that the cardinals did back in the jeff luna days. When he was there that they they started this piggyback tandem idea typically at the lower levels of the system but i think for all the reasons mentioned this would be a sound approach if the cardinals decided to go that route for twenty twenty one. Whether it's the the longer the other thing i would say the cardinals have also used that. In more recent years early in the season you know when when players come up to the colder climates saint peoria from from jupiter. And so they might use cannon maybe for the first month or so or six weeks because they wanna see how shakes out in some guys will limit themselves either by injury or ineffectiveness so it's also been used as a way to get more guys looks but ultimately stream the a narrow the rotation down to a more manageable number later in the season gotta wonder the delayed season how much this is going to stunt the growth of these kids that that has got to be of the concern of every single major league team. Right now yeah. I mean there's no doubt about it as i said you know these players you know eight will start on time but everybody else is going to be delayed. And you know it's gonna be a domino effect. It could be a month or six weeks later in each case and that really really matters especially coming off your where they couldn't play at all and you know we just have to hope that all these minor league towns across the country are able to get fans in the parks at some level as well because as i probably talked about ad nauseam. Those local minor league teams desperately need game day revenue to operate. And you know you've got. There's not only the players side of minor league baseball but there's also the business side of those teams that had no revenue at all twenty twenty and they really need to get back on their feet. So there's just there's so many reasons why you just have to hope they find a way to play major league baseball for the players and for the teams south brian. The cardinal nation dot com. I guess we do this every wednesday. I'm so curious about this. We've been hearing that laboratory could make the jump to the big leagues at some point this year thompson could do. The these guys haven't been above A single lay. It made me think what was the last time. A guy jumped from a ball to the major leagues much less with the cardinals or anybody else. It's it's so rare to do that now. We're in extraordinary times granted. That's extraordinary circumstances to do that. It takes a special player. And we're talking about to potentially doing that brian. Well now let me let. Let's talk about the two sides of that coin. One side is i honestly. Don't remember dan a player who went straight from class to the major leagues. Carl's the closest i can think of is kyle. Who did it from aa. Where was pools pool. His he was actually finished the season with aaa memphis. And it's like a number of these guys. You only got a handful of games. I mean hell going on the seventeen games aaa so you know guys who are really the top guys really quickly but but anyway to your point on one hand i would say you know. I don't see how liberty tour or gorman would start with saint louis on opening day. I i don't i don't happen. Yeah but but let's flip the coin. Remember those guys did spend all summer in springfield last year getting some experience so you could argue that. They've got some double a. Ish experience in so for me. The real relevant question for april first or third. I guess when opening day for the minor leagues is. We'll the cardinals gamble and put those guys in memphis discard or will they play more cautiously. Put him in springfield. Let him get success. Air for six eight weeks and then move them up to memphis because even a half a season in memphis would be more than enough to make them ready to go to saint louis. And you know the case. Celebratory you can probably work him in and don't exclude thompson. Who who probably has more who has more Experienced at high than tour. That's not but but these young guys. What i'm saying is on the pitching side. You can make the quick move to ship them into the bullpen and let them get their feet on the ground. Seen so many cardinals starters do before the first year but for for gorman you know what you're really gonna need as an injury at third base earn injury at at you know somewhere in the answer. First base got help us. That would create thirty days. But but point being you gotta be you know. I really think you need to be at a triple a. Has some success there before the cardinals wanna make a chance. Take a chance. Bring them into next week. But like i said you know an injury here or there you know can chasing sir quickly so really i guess my long way of saying these guys have their future in their hands. There's nothing blocking them other than the rate of their own development so if nolan gorman comes to camp his well plays while i'm big games goes down to the minor leagues plays. Well you know starts to show that you're really fully show that potential then you know the cardinals are gonna be tempted to bring him up if he struggles a little bit. Then yeah they'll probably slow them down in the same pitcher so it should be one of the most exciting things to wash during the course of the season to see when when these young players will will make actually deputies but you know all signals are that if they can continue on the path. They've on that they've been on. It could happen this year Got help us. I even though because it costs me every gets hurt somebody. Who's gonna ran that up by tailpipe. We won't hold you accountable. I i can guarantee you. That i've heard so many people say we gotta make this game more entertaining and i. I've said one of the things. And i love the game brian. You know i love the game. I don't really care about the time of the game. But hey if we got to speed it up i guess we gotta speed it up because some people are saying we've got to speed up gotta make it we we we need to have more action but one of the things it's been and i think you're the perfect guy to ask about this one of the things that you've seen in the minor leagues it's been brought about pitch clock electric strike zone those kind of things. How effective has that been in the minor leagues in is it had an effect on the entertainment value of the game. Yes and no yes it. They've been affected. I think in the minor leagues has had a negligible impact on the pace of the game. No not really. I mean the pitch clock. Something that started in the arizona fall league and to be honest with you after a while. Everybody got used to it so you weren't even really looking at the clock it just. It just became ingrained in the behavior of the players. So that's a good thing. That's an easy one. Now that we mentioned runaround second base that's something that's kind of extra innings that's kind of started. Take take take root. The scribe zone is an intriguing. One and i will tell you. That's the one that it's the most controversial because it attacks one of the traditions of of the game which is the empire behind play calling balls and strikes. I- i- purpose. I personally believe that electronic strike zone is something that needs to be pushed forward for any number of reasons but there are going to be. You know it's a pretty significant people that are gonna fight it tooth and nail. And so i don't think i'd say thing that we're gonna see twenty twenty one. It'll be interesting to see if it's something that comes up in the collective bargaining agreement for twenty twenty two and beyond. But you know it's going to happen just like the you know is going to happen. Maybe not on the same time schedule. Absolutely there is some news In terms of personnel. Wrap it up here with carlos martinez. He was pitching trying to get a lot of endings down in winter ball and he had a winner. Take all game and he was supposed to start. What happened there. Yeah cost martinez pitched in one regular season game. And then one first round game for his dominican club sabinas and carlson for them in the past when he was much less experienced. But it's sort of unusual for a guy with a level of major league experience. Carlos has to pitch in winter ball. Typically there guys either the beginning of their careers or guys at the end of their careers you know like Like milky cabrera kennedy. Who's you know much more near the end. Because of course because his season ended without oblique injury he had the right idea. I think he was going to go pitch meetings in winter ball and come to camp ready but what happened. He was scheduled to pitch in his team's game. Seven on saturday. Got scratched at the last moment and this was obviously game. Seven winner-take-all series semifinals spurs team. So this is a big big deal in the dominican and he was scratched and all the only word got was. It was due to personal reasons. Now the good news. Is you know hip for his team. The replacement came in and threw five shutout innings and they wanted game and advanced but the bad news is when they set their win. Akilah sit there rosco for the final series There was no carlos martinez to be found now. These did at chris christmas. But that's not quite the same so you know once again. Unfortunately there's mystery surrounding carlos martinez regarding You know things that may or may not have happened off the field. We just don't know what those person reasons are. And i hate to speculate. But as the cardinals which say the optics aren't good brian What are you working on. The carnation dot com. We'll hope we're going to that. This won't be too On topical talk about next week but what folks will see when they hit over the cardinal nation. This morning as detailed story that i've written about something. I've been thinking a lot about over the recent days and that is what if the cardinals really don't want wainwright in yati to come back Now i know that may sound sacrilegious but there are some things that i've seen in that i've been wondering about that. Say you know sort of like when you were dating someone and you were serious. But you knew it wasn't going to go somewhere you know. It's always more painful. If you're the one that has to be the one to break up. And i kind of go at this and take a look at it and it's all my i don't have any inside information. I'm not suggesting that. I have some kind of know. Scooper unique pipeline. Sorry we scoops. But there's here that i it turned out to be. I take a very very interesting potential analysis of what might happen and why it makes a lot of sense. It's there's that's one way to look at it. There's there's no other way to look at it going deep now in this hot stove. That's not been hot and now we're about five weeks away from the report date so that's one way to look at it. There's no other way meaning it. Just it just gets into dan. How much money do the cardinals wanna save. How far they wanna go in under their payroll last year. And you know if if they're too far apart in their bargaining positions you know how how what might be some ways that they could distance themselves in a way that it's not like hey we've turned our back on these icons absolutely brian. Great stuff today. Find you make people thank you. Make me think. I appreciate it. And i tell everybody. Go to the cardinal nation dot com and we'll catch up next wednesday sounds great. Dan i guess after were also be able to talk a little bit about warm up. And what's what's cooking there too right. You got it. That'll be the virtual winter warm up this weekend. You can find out. More at cardinals dot com. That's brian walden of the car. Donation dot com.

cardinals baseball Danny mac carlos martinez brian brian walden Miklaszewski Blue tail medical group bernie saint louis Andrew miller carlos nicholas sokoto level gulf coast league johnson city memphis dakota hudson springfield Dan the cardinal chris pronger
Legendary Sports Announcer Verne Lundquist

Kickass News

37:06 min | 2 years ago

Legendary Sports Announcer Verne Lundquist

"This is kick ass news. I'm Ben Mathis. We're sponsored today by very large expanse of see a heart, rending novel from bestselling author to hear a mafi loosely based on to hear his own experiences post nine, eleven. We follow Sheeran a girl who's tired of being stereotyped based on her race, religion, and the Higgins. She wears every day and channels. Her frustration through music and break dancing. A very large expanse of sea was selected for the national book award longlist and can be found wherever you buy books with all the stresses of life. It can be easy to lose perspective on what really matters. But Heineken believes that life is about being with friends and opening yourself to new experiences because when you live spontaneously and embrace the unexpected, it's a chance to create new stories and connections. You just have to open it. So enjoy a refreshingly cold full-bodied Heineken lager today with its deep golden color light, fruity aroma, mild bitter taste, and a crisp clean finish. Cheers. Maybe. Yes, sir. Four-man ala Bama look. They did know my gracious prowl. Three ago, then Brown. The dream is alive. Lace, pick and roll the empty side. And. The rockets have nothing on his foot, bows this guy. Those were just a few of the famous calls made by legendary sports announcer Verne Lundquist oracle, Vern as he's affectionately known sports fans. Vern lung quits remarkable broadcasting career has placed him at the center of major sporting events in America for more than fifty years from Jack Nicklaus's final victory at the nineteen Eighty-six masters and Tonya Harding's attack on Nancy Kerrigan at the nineteen ninety four Olympics to Christian late Nur's buzzer beater in the NCAA tournament and the Auburn, Alabama. Shocker in two thousand thirteen. He writes about at all in a new memoir called play by play calling the wildest games in sports from SEC football to college basketball, the masters and more and today Verne Lundquist comes on the podcast to talk about why one radio station owner wanted him to change his name to Jerry Lund. Why he hated his short lived stint as a local news reporter in San antone. Gno how Tex Schramm eventually lured him to Dallas to become the voice of the Cowboys and how it led to Verne's big break as a national sports caster. He reveals the one sporting event that he'd like to relive and it might surprise you. He recalls how Scott Hamilton gave him a crash course in ice skating during the Winter Olympics while he took it as a demotion when CBS moved him from covering the NFL to the southeastern conference, but how he soon realized that he came to college football just in time for the SEC explosion. He says travelling around the south. All those small towns covering college games was actually good for his marriage, and he gets a little sentimental when he talks about the huge sendoff that he got during his final season announcing SEC football. Plus he recalls some of its favorite moments in sports, some of its favorite sports calls and the calls that he hears most often from his adoring fans coming up with sports broadcasting legend Verne Lundquist in just a moment. Verne Lundquist writes about his remarkable fifty plus year career in sports broadcasting in his new memoir titled play by play calling the wildest games in sports from SEC football to college basketball, the masters and more uncle Vern welcome. It's nice to hear that phrase again. Thank you. When I was, I know the fella who nicknamed me that for the first time. He's the guy that every day is fence. Her hall every day should be Saturday, and almost immediately at caught on and I take it as a not an insult in any way. It's a term of free defection. So good to hear that. Yeah. Well, Vern I, I gotta tell you my dad went to Texas Lutheran college now t. l. you about this time, you and he says that he knew you way back when your member a fellow named herald Mathis or you probably would've known him as h h j h j Mathis yes, sir. Oh, my gosh almighty. Yes, of course. I do. Now, he told me to ask you if you remember the Volkswagen, that some kids carried up to the second floor of Langner hall or the time someone placed a bunch of chickens and dean Everett's office your remember that stuff. I can correct the, I do have a memory of it, but I corrected a little bit. Okay. Please do four of us who were fraternity, brothers, whatever that Brel Vince that has at at TLC then right? We, we borrowed a cow. And we've walked out, gosh, this goes back to my senior year in college and sixty two. The four of us. We were all close friends. I don't remember the intent of the prank. Yeah, other than z. If we could pull it off, we hid a of a very small classmate of bars in one of the classrooms putting in a bookcase until they locked the doors of Langner hall. That's exactly where it was, and we the, the other four of us conspirators. We went to this farmers backyard, and we lead old bossy. How about a mile and a half to the campus? And we thought we were so clever and who we fed. Oh, the statute of limitations has run out. He said the cow. A laxative. Then we lead the cow up to the second floor. And then we snuck out and locked the door. Well, we learned a that the laxative worked and be that you lead a cow up. You can't lead it down. And honest to God, they discovered it's the next morning and they had to cancel classes for the day, and I'm now fessing up for the first time ever. No, no. You know what? I told that story. Gosh, it's been nineteen seventy six, something like that. I was given a distinguished alumni award. They darned took it back. Oh yeah. After after I told this story, but so I have fessed up. Yeah, I, I kind of do remember footing chickens doctor every office who knew wild times studious all the time. Now would my dad of known you back then as Verne Lundquist or his Merton lavar. Now there's a, that's a part of the story to. Yeah, it is mentioned in the book. I'm a junior and I was named at birth Merton m. e. r. t. o. n. Laverne capital l little ache capital v. e. r. n. e. Lundquist junior now just give you context after they got me out into the world. I have brothers named David, Dan, my late brother, Tom, and my sister sheriff. So you're the case two years old. I Finally, I got my dad into corner. I said about the name. What the hell were you thinking. And he said, it's an honorable name. I said, well, do you remember Johnny cash in the Bourne aimed sue. Because I went by, he went by Merton. I went by Laverne and that lasted all the way through Texas Lutheran. Okay. So what made you finally switch to Verne Lundquist I got a summer replacement job in Clinton Iowa. I've attended the Lutheran school at the algae for one year, and I had this summer job in Clinton about thirty miles north of Dow Davenport and the the school theology was across the Mississippi in rock island. And the station in my mind is w. o. c. radio in Davenport and guy named Bob Gifford. The program director called me in he said, a like your work at like to hire, you will have you on the air Monday through Friday at nine pm to midnight, but about the name. There's no way I'm putting you on my radio station as Laverne. And he had a stage name you want. My recollection is he wanted me to go by Gerry Lund, and I said, there's no chance as I'm going to do that. So the compromise was dropped the LA off. And so I've been burned since September sixty three. And to this day, if we're at home in Steamboat Springs, my wife Nancy will pick up the phone and she'll look at me with big grinchey said it's for you, and it's obviously somebody from college or high school. That's a heck of a mouthful for anyone who's on into broadcasting. I gotta say it was awful. Awful. So you graduated TLC. And I think your first big paying gig was working at a station in Austin owned by then vice president Lyndon Johnson. Did you ever meet LBJ? Oh, yeah. Quite often. See. Like quite often, he was a hands on guy. The station was actually in the name of his wife lady bird or Claudia Johnson. But Lyndon Johnson was very much a presence in the operation of the of the station. And after the assassination Johnson took over as president and I used to love when he would come back to this the, I guess it was the winner White House. You wouldn't spend the summer in Johnson city unless you're mandated to do. Believe me, but they would come back. And and I wanted the joys memories. I have of that time when I was in Austin for three years was getting off the ten o'clock news and there was a place in Austin cult Schultz garden, and it was just this welcoming reminiscent of what you would find in Munich or Berlin, or Hamburg or Cologne. And one of my best friends then and still is guy named Neil spells. Neal was the anchorman at channel seven. I was his wing, man. I was the sports guy and Neil, and I would get off duty at ten thirty and go over to Scholtz garden and the White House press corps, discovered that place, and they would hang out there and I was in raptured to sit at tables with them and listen to their stories, a about Kennedy, be about Johnson and. And and I just became enthralled with their lives and what they did for living. And I think it helped me to expand whatever horizons I've really had back then it it made me aware of a much wider world out in. Yeah, interesting. So that's where you get your news bug because didn't you have a short lived stint in San Antonio as a news reporter. I made a mistake willingly admitted now. I was there for three years at channel seven in my hometown, and I grew a little restless and I accepted an offer to go to channels four in San Antonio. It's the NBC affiliate w. away. I and I was a news man for one year anchored the six and the ten. My co-anchor was a guy named Mike Henry whose real name we're talking about Laverne. Mike's real name. He shared with the one night was Ville helm, Yuna, right? That would cause you to change your name to Mike. A forget. There are a lot of Germans in that area. Texas aren't there? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. All around San Antonio. And in a deed insa. Geen were texture. Yeah, new Broncos and Marcus open the hill country Fredericks. Verte, sir. Johnson city. But I used to love to sit around with those guys is there were two CBS correspondents at. I remember vividly both now gone George, Herman, and Robert Pierpoint and along with some newspaper guys. And I went to San Antonio, but I'm sure your dad could tell you back then. I don't know if it's still true the culture in Santo Neo in television news was if it bleeds it leads and they would. I accuse them of having a phony gas station place that if nothing was happening, they, they would stage an armed robbery place. And that would be the lead now that never ever ever happen. But if there was a car crash involving multiple fatalities, we'd go four minutes and I just detested that. Culture. So right. I don't think you spent more than a year doing news and San Antonio before you took a job in Dallas, and that's what eventually led to you becoming the voice of the Dallas Cowboys. Right. I had applied for the job in Dallas with WFAN a twice and been rejected, and one of the guys who beat me out the second time was as forts anchor. His name is David lane. He's gone now, but Dave was a dear friend and he called me in San Antonio and he said, genie and Irish expecting our first child. I'm going to get out on the air work and go into sales with the aspiration of becoming a manager, and I wanna recommend you for the job, which was so gracious because he'd beat me out. He was the guy from temple, Texas, and based on his recommendation and I had to do and other audition, but I did get. The job and and that really kind of elevated my prospects forgetting to a network. We're going to take a quick break, and then I'll be back with more with Verne Lundquist when we come back in just a minute. Folks. I've been a small business owner for many years now and I've come to learn what every small business owner knows when you're your own boss, you work a lot harder than you ever did working for anyone else. There are million little things to keep on top of from paperwork to payroll. 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Slash kick again. This is a limited offer only available to our listeners. So good, a bamboo, HR dot com. Slash kick one more time. That's bamboo, HR dot com. Slash kick almost every day. We hear something on the news about a cyber attack. Sometimes it's just a bunch of pranksters, but more often, it's a foreign country with vast cyber resources trying to hack our power grid or banking system or military's information networks. The national security agency plays a big part. Art and protecting our country from cyber attacks, and you can help the NSA is hiring technical professionals to serve on the frontlines of information security. If you work in computer science, networking programming or electrical engineering, you can help keep your country safe design, new hardware systems and networks, right faster, smarter programs protect America's critical infrastructure or help uncover what our adversaries are planning to do next, learn more about careers at the national security agency today, visit intelligence, careers dot gov, slash NSA. That's intelligence, careers dot gov, slash NSA. And now back to the podcast. At one point, I know that you almost went to LA and you say your career might have been very different if it hadn't been for Cowboys head Tex Schramm. What did he say to you to change your mind? Well, I've I actually flew out to LA and the offer was from Canucks t- the the station owned and operated channel two in Los Angeles, and they had had longtime sports guy named Gil Stratton who was ready to retire. So I flew west and my head was in the clouds. LA's not a bad place to live. You know, the weather's pretty good, and this was an important job. So I- verbally accepted of a got somewhere in the files in my home co copy of the contract five year offer double the money. And I said, yes, I'll do it. So I, I flew from LA back to Dallas and immediately boarded the charter jet for the Cowboys down to Super Bowl, six. And I told Tex Schramm on the plane that what what was going to happen? And he said, have you signed anything? And I said, no. He said, please don't just put him at arm's length and I wanna have lunch with you. When we get back, I had a four hour lunch with Texan. We got back. So Texas prospect is offered to me was he asked me this. He said, what are your? What do you want to be ten years from now? And I keep in mind. This was in seventy two. And I said, I'd love to have a network play by play job. He said, oh, here's my proposition. Turn LA down a any name, three names. I've never forgotten this. He said you've heard of Vince Scully, yes. You heard the dick Enberg. Yes. You've heard chick Hearn the Lakers. Got yes. He said, Dow, if you're an on the air sports reporter with no play by play experience and one of those jobs comes open. Do you think you'd have any kind of a chance of getting it with no assets. No, I've really wouldn't. He said, if you stay in Dallas bill's going to the Rangers, I'm prepared to offer you a job as a play by play guy for the Cowboys. And in all candor, we're going to be pretty good, and so we're going to attract a lot of attention and if you can do it and obviously I believe you can. The networks will find you and you were doing the Cowboys games for what, at least a decade or so I did it for twelve years play, but after two years ABC offered me a spot doing college football. So that was my stepping stone into network television. I don't look back because it obviously it turned out so very well for me, but not so much that ABC they, they called me one month before I was gonna get married to Nancy. And said, we got some news. We're not going to renew your contract as such as it was. It was minimal thing, but I was pretty much outside the loop until CBS came along. Yeah, Tex was right. And I think you ended up covering twenty-something sports for CBS and somewhere I read that you said that of all the sports events that you've covered? Surprisingly, to me, the only one that you would want to relive her, the one you'd most want to relive was actually the Lillehammer Olympics and doing figure skating with Scott Hamilton. What was so special about that to you? You've read it, right? You did read it right, Scott and Tracy Wilson is Canadian. She was are the third member of our team. I did not wanna do figures hitting what are you kidding me? And Nancy said, look, I thought I was going to be assigned to the alpine. Billy kid is still are director of skiing in Steamboat Springs. He was then our CVS analysts knew him, well, we lived in ski resort. Why would I not be doing a junk Lod Killy? Well, because we had a guy named Tim Ryan who had done it for years and was really good. So I got a call. They said, we're gonna put you on figure skating. And after I came off the ceiling, I was telling my wife, I can't believe this. I don't know anything about it and she said, you know, with your love of music and your admirations for athletic achievement. When you combine the two, you're going to fall in love with the sport. Well, I did, and I did. So in. Large measure because Scott, he's just one of the finest people I've ever met, and we've remained very, very close who better than Scott Hamilton to teach the finer points of ice skating. Did he give you a crash course in what's what he taught? He welcomed Nancy and be and taught me what he could about how to accomplish what you want to in that sport. So I, I mean, he led me by the hand through the Olympics. I share this with you. I didn't know. I do know now that there are six jumps and I do know that the only jump that has a forward. Takeoff physician is an axle. The other five jumps they haven't so quickly. I can't to this day. And so when when when we did a couple of introductory events in the I was in Leningrad, then now Saint Petersburg, and I grew fascinated with the stories. The people in the sport and Scott welcome both Nancy and me into that world. And as a result, we've got a dear friend in Berlin named Katharina vet. We've got friends in Toronto. We got friends in Moscow and Saint Petersburg and Tokyo, and and they open their arms to both of us, I think because they sensed that we've really, really admired what they did men and women, but to do your first announcing for ice skating in the Winter Olympics, that's really throwing in the deep end Vern weren't you nervous about doing ice skating for the first time share this with you when we did the Olympics first time in ninety two and Scott, and I did three ninety to ninety four Tonya, Nancy, and then ninety eight in Nagano. Japan, I didn't know squat. And as as Scott, explain to me. He was replacing Dick Button who had done every Olympics that had ever been televised. I was replacing one of my idols, Jim McKay other than that, no pressure and Scott, knowing that I was limited in my wariness of what was going on, we had assistant. He sat to my right and whenever a critical sequence was coming up in the routine, I e jump or jump combination. He would reach over in very gently, put his left hand on my right forearm. And I was smart enough to know that what he was saying is just shut up. And I would lay out and let him carry us through whatever the element was and then and then he'd look at me and smile, and I knew okay to come back in, we got through, actually we got through three Olympics. I became dangerous because I thought I knew what Jones. Now there's probably a whole generation or two that only knows you as the play by play guy of the SEC at the time when CBS moved here from NFL coverage to the SEC looking back, did you have any idea how big it would become? I had no idea and a give you the brief, some Asian of how that all came about. I was doing at that time. This was in ninety nine and I had worked with some just outstanding guys, Terry Bradshaw Dan Fouts, Pat Haden in ninety nine. I was working with Dan dear door and we were doing the number two NFL game, which meant direct flights from Denver and nice hotels, five star who tells and I've used this line before and I mean it there are no nonstop flights from Steamboat Springs to Tuscaloosa. Just an it ain't going to happen. But my producer then Lance barrel who is now the executive producer of all of our golf coverage. Lance called me, and he said, I'm gonna give you a heads up. I've heard rumors that they might talk to dick Enberg who is unhappy at NBC they might talk to him about coming over here. Well, I didn't think it would ever happen because dick had a legendary career NBC carved out a statue of himself, and why would he leave there is the lead NFL guy and come to CBS well, but I kept hearing these things. So I called my boss still my boss Sean McManus and they explained to him what I've been hearing. And I said, can you help me out with this? He said, well. I've heard the same thing that dick is not really content at NBC, but he's a high salary guy, high visual guy. I just don't think we could afford him or that he would really seriously come over. So we had that conversation. And then at the end of it, he said, memorably. Now in the unlikely event that we were hired dick invert, how would you feel about moving to the SEC? And I said, the appropriate things and hung up, and I looked at Nancy, we were in the kitchen, and I said, Honey pack your bags for tuscaroras. But at the time it's not like you had some burning desire to cover the SEC. Did you look at going from the NFL to the SEC as a demotion? I did not want to do. I did not. And they were aware of that, well. No, who had any idea? My first game was in September of two thousand Florida. Tennessee ended on a pass that was caught if you're Tennessee fan was not caught. If your other way route was caught. If you're Florida fan was an incomplete passes your Tennessee and it was thrilling. We got off the air and I looked at my partner Todd Blackledge, and I said, are they all like this? He said enough of them. Will you seem to have come into it at just the right moment? What do you think was responsible for this explosion in SEC football over the past decade or two? Two things. In my view happen. We took a gamble. We took what was essentially a regional sport and put it on nationally. That was number one number two. And even more significantly the BCS came along. I was never a fan of v. c. s. but all of a sudden as they were attempting to determine the top two teams in the country to meet every game in the SEC became relevant to every market in the big ten every market in the Pac twelve every market in the big twelve, all the games mattered and almost I'm almost concurrent with that. The SEC teams, God love them went onto win, seven consecutive national titles. So our profile and I worked with two guys, Todd and Gary Danielson. Each of whom is an excellent broadcaster. Our profile just became. Came a gigantic dinosaur imprint. Yeah. And who who knew who would have ever guessed? And so it became the most significant assignment I've ever I ever had. Yeah. I have to say when the higher ups at CVS broach the subject of retirement with you, they didn't just show you the door is sounds like they did it in a very classy respectful way time to kind of step aside and Sean ni- were in collaboration about that. And so we collectively decided that my final year will be twenty sixteen and it was the right time share with the I I said, some guy on the radio station in the SEC by three years ago, I don't want to stay too long. I want to go out with the not having made a grievous mistakes. And not having lost my enthusiasm and he very warmly. But sarcastically said buddy, that ship has sailed. And I got the point, but but they informed me I didn't get input into into the decision, but I desperately wanted to be someone who was accomplished and in Brad Ness, or they got the right guy. He and Gary had worked together before I've known Brad since the early eighties when he was the radio announcer for the Atlanta Falcons, so absolutely right choice. And they gave you a hell of a sendoff that last season didn't they? It was. It was just amazing. Started with Texas am and UCLA and Kevin, someone called me in into the meeting room adjacent to his office, and all of a sudden I'm giving a pair of cowboy boots and jersey number twelve. Well, if you have any awareness of the traditions of Texas AM. You know the significance of the number twelve in the twelve man. So that was the start of it. And then it just seemed to pick up momentum every week. And I was just floored with the with the accolades and the and the friendship of the gestures of kindness by every school in the SEC and also army navy was from for me, it was a great way to go out. Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, you know, you've made so many iconic calls over the years when you run into fans in the streets or out and about, is there one particular call of yours that they love to shout out it? Yeah. Well, I, yeah, they're really to. I remain difference with Pat Haden who was broad scholar USC quarterback Rams quarterback later, became the FAA directorate directories all matter and is also parenthetically now a member to Gusta national. But but Pat called me once he said, I want you to know what's going on every time we play golf and there's a force him that. And he said every time anybody sinks putt outside of twelve feet immediately the whole group would go, yes, sir. And then of course any ball now it's the you in your life of you ever seen anybody like that. I, yeah, I and I always take those spirit of gratitude. Well, uncle Vern. The book was just terrific. Once more. It's called play by play calling the wildest games in sports from SEC football to college basketball, the masters and more Verne Lundquist. Thanks so much for talking with me. It's been a pleasure. And please tell your dad Hilo. I sure will. Okay. Thanks again to uncle Vern for coming on the podcast order. Verne Lundquist book play by play calling the wildest games in sports from SEC football to college basketball, the masters and more on Amazon audible or wherever books are sold when you need energy on the go and don't have time to wait in line grabs spread. So monster Espresso. Monsters. Premium blend of Espresso in cream made with freshly brewed Espresso. Coffee warm, own free milk into unique energy blend complete with taurine and B-vitamins. Each can has three shots of Espresso and comes in vanilla spread so or Espresso in cream flavors, close your eyes, take a sip and enjoy Espresso monster today. If you haven't already be sure to subscribe to kick ass news on itunes and leave us a review, you can follow us on Facebook or on Twitter at at kick ass news pod, and as always I welcome your comments, questions, and ideas at comments at kick ass. News dot com. I'm Ben Mathis and thanks for listening to kick ass news. Gas news is a trademark of Mathis entertainment Inc.

Verne Lundquist SEC Nancy Kerrigan Vern lung football Texas CBS Scott Hamilton Dallas Tex Schramm herald Mathis NFL Cowboys San Antonio reporter LA Olympics Steamboat Springs Lyndon Johnson Johnson city
From the Archives: Robert Caro on How He Does It

The Book Review

1:03:27 hr | 1 year ago

From the Archives: Robert Caro on How He Does It

"This podcast is supported by Flatiron. Books Publisher of American dirt by Janine Cummins. The novel American dirt is an Instant Number One New York Times bestseller and is available wherever books are sold find out more at American dirt DOT COM LONG-TERM LISTENERS. Of The podcast that we never miss an episode and fact until now we haven't missed a single episode in fifteen years so it was not an easy decision for us to suspend. Newark according to the podcast during the cloven nineteen crisis on the bright side. This is an opportunity for us to revisit. Some of our favorite episodes from the archives. This week I bring to you a conversation from the not too distant past my interview with Robert Caro author of the powerbroker and the in-progress five volume biography of Lyndon Johnson bobbins spoke for April nineteenth. Twenty nine thousand nine. Podcast bond came on to talk about his most recent book working but I had just finished reading master of the Senate on my own so we talked about everything. Here's the episode. Robert Carroll joins us now he is the Pulitzer Prize. Winning author of many books. New Book is called working researching interviewing and writing. He's also the author of the years of Lyndon Johnson four volumes of them thus far and the powerbroker Robert Moses and the fall of New York Bob. Thanks so much for being here. Pleasure to be here all right so everyone has been greatly anticipating a volume five of the years of Johnson. But instead you have written this other book working researching interviewing writing. Why did you decide to do this? Ever since the powerbroker I kept myself out of the book. I don't think the word I appears in there many times. If soon as the book came out people started asking me. What was it like ten of you Robert Moses and I realized that I should have put in something to tell people what that was like so for like forty five years. I've been hearing that question and people ask me what it's like to work in presidential libraries were. Can you find out from interviews? This isn't the adviced anybody but it's sort of. I said we'll I WANNA give people some glimpses into how I work so. I took time out to do this book now. I'm back doing the volume. I mean it's an interesting question about interviewing Robert Moses because you had read five sessions which women seven sessions with him. Which was very different from the Johnson. Biography where he was dead already for several years. Before you could get started and I'm curious you write about it a bit in working what the difference was like for you. Writing the book writing a biography of a person who was still alive versus writing a biography of someone who was already gone in one sense. It's great to write about someone who's still alive because you get to meet Moses. Didn't talk to me for the first couple of years of the book. Then we had seven interviews. Soon as I started asking questions. Pamela the interviews were over but they will long sessions and I really got to look at him with Johnson. You felt okay. I came along just too late. He had died just three years before was great about him was that he died so young he would have been only sixty seven when I started. He darted sixty four that everyone was still alive. He had I think twelve people in Johnson City High School. When he was there they were all there to be viewed. But you can't make up for not meeting and talking to the person writing about you just can't do feel that absence and working on the Johnson. Yes you do everything you can to overcome that you know you interview the people closest to him over and over and over again constantly asking them what was he like. If I was standing next to you what would I see him doing? So you try to get a feeling of him now. We have these telephone transcripts where you hear him talking hundreds and hundreds of hours you can listen to him talking and see how he deals with people and how he gets what he wants from people. That's always amazing to me. Has that changed the way that you've been doing your research having access to those types a change the writing of history in general like on the Gulf of Tonkin incident which has been sort of mystery. What really happened there. How many attacks were there? On our destroyers. You know that led Johnson to launch these launch bombing attacks on North Vietnam. Now you actually hear the communications between Robert McNamara. The Secretary of Defense Cincpac the admiral at Honolulu and the commander of the fleet. That's an in Viet Nam. You hear this and what was really going on in real time the other aspect of your interviewing that. I thought was so interesting that you write about in this new book working is the delicacy of interviews and especially when you get to touchy subjects. And they'll you didn't interview Johnson for the book did Interview Lady Bird and tell the story about how you and when you approached the subject of Johnson's longtime affair with Alice Marsh. Well when Johnson is in the Pacific during World War. Two year allowed easing Australia. You're allowed one telephone. Call the senator from Texas. Just Johnson has to decide whether to run again for the House of Representatives or to run for senator. I'm going through all the correspondents and suddenly in the middle of it. There is a telegram from someone sewing. Alice I've never heard of Alice. She appears in no book and it says Lyndon everyone else that happened to me in the White House. Everyone else thinks you should run for the Senate. I think you should run for the house. Please try to cool love Alice. I said WHO is Alice. Who was the person that he makes the only one telephone call? And who's giving political advice which he follows shortly after that? So that's you know. An example of going through the papers by luck her sister and best friend show up at the Johnson Library and ask to see me and I go down to see them and they say you know we wanna tell you about a woman named Alice Marsh. We don't want to portray to some Bimbo. She was really very important in Johnson's life. And they told me the whole story of this Lauren and significant relationship and his life. So how do you then? Ask Lady Bird. You know panel. That's the only interview I ever had in my life where I couldn't bring myself to look at the person I was interviewing. Alice was a small town girl. She turned herself into the brilliant Washington. Hostess Brilliant Brilliant Salons and she came from a little town called Morlin. Now no one would go to the mall. And unless they were looking for inflammation analysis a little town in the middle of nowhere and I never know I went up there and we learned about her. And how remarkable she was but all of a sudden we have a mutual friend. Who lived in Morlin? Who calls me in a panic and says the bird in Texas? Everybody Calls Lady Bird Bird. Bird and always. You've been in Marlin. So she knows you know about Al. Assad said well that had to be if it doesn't concern me but her secretary then shows up at my desk in the reading room says Mrs Johnson would like to see you out at the ranch this weekend. We had been meeting in her office so we sit down at the dining table. She's at the head of the table. I might her right. Hand my stenographer's notebook like like the one you use is is down on my right hand taking notes and without preamble. She starts to talk about Alice Quiz. How elegance she was how sophisticated she was how she taught. Linden things and everything that she taught him. He followed the rest of his life. You don't hear these lawn when she met him. He was this new congressman very awkward with Lorne Gang Leo Arms. She said turn them into an asset. Always wear shirts with French. Cuffs and very nice cufflinks. So when people's attention is cool to them it's called in in a in a good way. She told him. We're kind of Necktie to favor. Countess Myers Tie. But most of all at crucial elements in life. It was her advice that he followed an in a number of cases one in particular. It's not exaggerating. Very much to say she saved. His career is takes a moment to tell. But it's it's interesting his early careers financed by a very fierce huge Texas contractor. Herman Brown Brown and Root and Herman was prepared to keep financing his Roy and in return Johnson was getting huge contracts for Brown and root when all of a sudden they had a falling out Lyndon Johnson was getting them authorization to build a dam which they wanted but Linden wandered low. Rent Housing Project built in Boston in what was a very poor Mexican American neighborhood. The houses in that neighborhood were owned by Herman Brown. The tenants were paying rent to him. They were very profitable and he was enraged at Linden wanted to condemn them for his housing project and his chief lobbyist and his chief lawyer talked. Instead you know Herman was about to turn on Linden and when Herman turned on you he never turned back when Alice here is about this and invites them both down to Greatest Stadium Virginia. She sits down at her table. And says why don't you just compromise give Herman the damaging winds and the land and all of a sudden everything was okay. So Lady Bird starts talking not only about her elegance. She says the quotes are in the book. She was so sophisticated so beautiful. I remember her neck succession of wonderful beautiful dresses and me in well not so wonderful. And and then she said you know Lyndon Basically Linden always followed Alice's vice during that whole interview I have to say my head. Just stay down and I took notes. I couldn't look at her so that was done. The next week we went back to ordinary interview she just launched into it without you. Even though I you know I sometimes think I know something about politics. I'm really glad I don't have to write about. Women never understood why she did that had gone in there presumably thinking how am I gonNa Bring this up and then you never have to. She talked she answered all my questions. Without a word out of you right in working about the use of silence in interviews and I love you to talk about that for a minute and then talk about the opposite where you have to actually ask uncomfortable and sometimes aggressive questions. The silence thing is is interesting. If you look in my notebooks where tech notes on into you'd find the letters. Suv written very big. Sometimes they mean shut up because I tend to talk too much. And the thing is if you're interviewing somebody silence can be a real weapon for you because as a human seems to be a human need to fill a silence so if you ask a question if there's a silence he's not answering if if you can just shut up Long enough an amazingly large percentage of that time he has the talk. And I'll give you the information you want but you're dealing with people who are master. Politicians who presumably also know sometimes the use of silence curious with someone like Moses where you say you know he was a monologue guest. Andy talked and he talked at he ever used. Silence to Moses with Moses. You ask the question. He might answer it for an hour. An hour and a half to thing about it was. You didn't want to interrupt when I started an interview Child was a young reporter. I had one a couple of minor I mean really minor journalistic awards but when you're young and you win anything you think you know everything. I thought I really knew how political power worked from the minute. Robert Moses started talking to me. I knew that I knew nothing. Compared to him. It was like I had never even dreamed of this level of political genius. I mean it's such a tricky dance with access right. Because with someone like Moses he controlled access to a lot of the information and a lot of the people around him and whether they would talk to you or not I mean. Did you worry that. Oh I make sort of one false. Move here in this interview with him. He's GonNa tell everyone not to talk to me anymore. I didn't happen quite that way. What happened see over the years? Many boy I refers I don't mean a few had started or contemplated biographies of Moses and I suppose they were told the exact same thing. I was told as soon as I wrote him saying I went to of his public relation. They always came in pairs. These guys whose name Murray Davison Edward. Reveal Brian and they basically said to me for you. Know Commissioner Moses. We'll never talk to you. His family will never talk to you. His friends will never talk to you. And they had this phrase. I'm not I don't remember the exact wording but what it meant. Was no-one whoever wants a contract from the city? Were state will ever talk to you and you will never see his papers. So I had to think of something. So I drew a series of concentric circles on a pay incentive. I put a dot. That was him. The first circle was his family and closest friends. Second was fairly close. Friends people dealt with the moral time but they were outer rings and I said well he he can think of and make sure they don't talk to me all the people who are close them but he's GonNa forget a lot of people on the outside so I started with them and as I later. We're told he started getting these telephone calls from people saying this young man came to interview me vacuum so for two years. He didn't talk to me all of a sudden I get a phone call from his daughter change. She calls him papa bear she said. Well Papa Bear will talk to come out and meet him at a at Oak Beach and I do not know why he changed his mind on that. I was told something. It's a quite complimentary to me. So but it's the only explanation I was ever given. I became very friendly over the years. With his chief aide Gardening such Shapiro. He said well you know the commission realized with you. Finally a biographer. Who'd come along? Who was going to do the book whether he wanted it or not. I don't know if that's true. But we had seven interviews which were education to me and you ultimately did get a copy of all of his papers. You often talk about how your books are about power about these. Two men who accumulated and wielded power in two very different arenas and sort of fundamentally changed the use of powers in within those two different Rina's but as a reader it strikes me that your books are as much about the powerless as they are about the powerful and you start off master of the Senate for example with a woman who cannot vote. It feels like your heart and some of the most moving passages are really about the people who didn't have the power you know when you deal with them that way. I'm so glad at so perceptive of you to pick that thing up because it's an example. If you say I'm not going to write about the powerful. I'm going to write about the powerless in the effect that power has on. So I'm trying to show in the in master. The Senate Johnson does what hasn't been done for eighty seven years he gets a civil rights spill through the Senate that's controlled by the south. So that's quite a story but as part of the story I wanted to show exactly how hard it was and what happened through black people in the south in the nineteen fifty. She tried to register to vote. So I'm reading all the testimony that black people gave before the United States Civil Rights Commission. And you know some of these stories make you cry on filled with rage. So I came across this testimony of this woman Margaret Frost who was humiliated with the question. She asked but she didn't give up. She went home and studied and about six months later she went back before these same three registrars and they humiliated her again so I thought oh I have this story but the thing is there's always more to the story and her husband in the course of talking to me. She mentioned just in passing that her husband had registered to vote. David Frost so I said well I'd like to talk to him. He didn't want to talk to me at first but eventually spoke to him on the phone and he told me the following story when he registered to vote a car came boy and men shot out with rifles the lights on his porch. He wanted to call the police but as the car drove away he realized it was a police corps. All of a sudden families said so. That's what it was like to be a black person. In south there was no place to turn known to protect you so the whole story came. There was a whole other dimension to me. I WanNa talk a bit specifically about master the Senate listeners of this podcast of heard a bit about it in the last few weeks as I was reading the book and there are certain aspects of the writing in this book that I think you cover also in your new book working i WanNa talk about those different aspects one is the sense of place another storytelling and piecing and the third is the development of your characters but sort of background to all of that is the process of writing and editing because with the power broker we know that about three hundred and fifty thousand words of this book did not end up in the final book. I imagine that is true. As long as they are of in the years of Johnson. I'm curious about what your processes like in terms of your relationship with your editor Bob Gottlieb. Well it's a law relationship. He became my editor in. Nineteen seventy one. That's forty eight years. Wow it hasn't been always a peaceful relationship. Let's say we're both strong minded people. But he's a great editor for me. I think he's a great editor. And sometimes I think no one but he could make because what he does. I mean he's not GonNa let you go if he makes his suggestion. And you don't want to accept you're not gonNA turn the next page. He's GonNa tell you why you should change so when answering that you have to think about what you did. That's very valuable to me because my books take so long my publisher my editor never bore the me so I'm sort of in a vacuum in a way and it's easy to fool yourself that you're doing better than you are doing but as you writing this you you you're forced to say what would bob think of this. Do you know if you saw us up to the working book where things became friendly always what we took forty five years but from the very first time. He's the guy never used to go out for lunch. I never have lunches. We worked on that book. The cutting out of the three hundred and fifty thousand words was really hard and I think even Bob would say to you. We didn't do it just because they were superfluous. I think he said something like we. We cut three hundred and fifty thousand really good words. Neither of US wanted to do that. But we're so on the same wavelength so in order to get enough money to finish the powerbroker I had saw the to contract. A second book was for biography of Fiorello Laguardia. So I finished the powerbroker and I really don't WanNa do Laguardia biography. I covered this. I can't stand ever to go back and do the same thing and yet and I'm saying we put you know. I realize now that what I was doing in the powerbroker was not a biography of Moses. It was a study of urban political power in cities. How real power works. When you're not elected anything what is the real power you get? I said I WANNA do that for national power and I know who I want to do it through. I want to do it through Lyndon Johnson and I never worn a have to cut words that I don't think should be cut again. I wanted to do it in volumes. I said but can off. My publisher will never let me do that. I'm under contract. So I'm sitting there starting the Laguardia biography. And I get a call from Bob and he says something like listen. I know you're famous temper. Bobby's always saying Bob. Carro has a terrible temper temper on true to people with a terrible temper. Say Novia Temple. I want you to come and see me and I don't want you to say anything until I finish talking. I have a suggestion for you so I went in. I I know you want to do this laguardia biography. I don't think you should do that. I think you've done it all already but I do have another subject that I'd like you to do. I'd like to suggest that you do Lyndon Johnson and I think he should do it in volumes so many times in our law aims all these years editing or the. We really have bitter flights over some things. We're both sort of on a very basic level on exactly the same wavelength and I'm grateful to have had of a woman was you. Do you ever hand into him. Parts of the book or do you wait until it's all done. I never show anybody except line one exception. I needed more money when I was doing one of these volumes. So I had to show would have done that. That's the only torn. I don't show anybody anything until the tool though I wanna talk about because you work in on the book and its entirety about the structure specifically of Master of the Senate. Because it's very interesting. There's been a big gap between this book and and means of ascent the second volume and I was nervous as a reader going into it because I had not read the path to power means of ascent in decades so I thought Oh gosh am I going to be able to gain entry into this and you started off in a very surprising way by devoting over little over one hundred pages to the institution of the Senate itself a kind of mini biography of the Senate and kind of history of the United States as seen through the lens of the Senate. How did you decide to do that? And did you know from the beginning you were going to approach it that way? No not at all I thought Master the Senate which is I forget how long it is but it's almost two thousand pages and I'm looking a little over a thousand very well. Well I said put Azam doing the Senate. I'm the not who sat in the gallery. You know I'm up there all day. Tourist groups come in and out. I'm still there. The senators are looking up on me. Who is the Scott you know but I'm realizing it's an entire world that I don't know and in fact a world that almost nobody knows and it was really important at times in American history and it's important to show them then Johnson's genius how he changed the Senate? So that are really worked. The book called the years of Lyndon Johnson. That's because it's on the books are not supposed to be about just Lyndon Johnson. They're supposed to be a history of America for perhaps sixty years so I start writing list. I said this is a story. Nobody knows and it's going to take I suppose Hundred Pages of maybe sixty seventy thousand worlds so I wrote it and I said well. I think this should be published. Where am I going to put it if I start the book like this? Nobody's going to read the book and I tried to break it up and put it parts of it at the beginning of other chapters to towel size poets and put it into other chapters fallen. I said to hell with this belongs at the beginning of the book. That's where I want it to be. That's where it's going to be so I gave the manuscript godly. He said something like you know said something complimentary did not does I. Don't get a lot of them. He said something he said you know. And that's the only place that should go right at the beginning of the book. I don't think many editors would have said that so you start off with this first section about the Senate and one of the things that struck me about this book. Is that while it's very long. The pace keeps moving. Because you keep sort of changing a little bit what it is. You're doing and you have these mini stories within the book and even many biographies within the buck. And I guess I. How did you decide? Okay here's where I'm going to kind of home in and tell maybe a small story but blow it out to illustrate something versus. I need to describe what happens. Let's say between nineteen fifty five nineteen fifty seven. Well does human drama tells the story of Leland olds named that. No one knew I read it but had no idea so the beginning of this book right. At the beginning Johnson comes to the Senate and he wants to cement himself with the Texas Oilman Texas contractors and up for confirmation as a man named Leland olds who had been on the federal power commission which regulates the oil industry. So it's mentioned in all Johnson right that he holds hearings on Owl's and paints him as a communist some of these books that he was a communist paint semester. Communist and defeats is nomination. I said well I wanna read the hearings. You ask why the books takes so long. Hearings are a lot of reading. Because there's a lot of extraneous matter but woven through this year. I Say I am reading. A story of a man Lyndon Johnson destroying another human being for political ends. I can't believe it. I mean I I remember reading these hearings all night. Underlining the last so look what he's doing here he takes this man who has a young young man in his twenties had flirted with the Communist Party and had written for the daily worker and painted him as a committed communist and destroyed his life. Olds was a respected man. After that he lived the rest of his life. Always struggling for money shunned by all his almost all his old friends. Because it wasn't safe to be known to be his friends and Johnson is doing this and it sort of horrible so I tried to find everybody who's connected with it and I found one eight. Who Standing Johnson has just had a cross examination of old saying used to still believe this. He would quote articles from the Twenty S. Also try to explain that he didn't leave it. Johnson would cut him off and he is a man standing with legal and goals in the lunch and break for the hearings recess break and remember and Johnson comes out and throws his arms around. Old says throws one arm around the show and said I hope you're not taking this personally leland just politics you know so. I said I'm going to tell the story when you say you're going to tell the story like Pamela. You know it's going to take a lot of pages if you tell us right human story and you have to paint to human beings Lyndon Johnson and Leila Knowles. Sometimes you get a feeling that you've done the right thing in this book comes out me. No one had heard of legal analysis anymore. I'm signing books. I think in some ways I think it was in Seattle. But don't really remember young. You sitting there on these you give a tort is a long line of people all of a sudden. This voice says to me island old granddaughter. I WANNA thank you for saving my grandfather's reputation. Well I have to tell you there are moments when you do these folks that you feel at there are a lot of moments when you don't feel good about what you'd moments when you feel good about some. Wow I mean you read the biography. It is like a mini biography of Lindell's and to this day. I mean if you go onto wikipedia. He's got like three paragraphs and what you do. Is that rather than start with the facts of the situation. Which you as you state that okay. Here's someone for political purposes in order to win the presidency in order to gain the trust and the money of this lobby in Texas. He's needs to defeat this nomination. Rather than start there you start with. Here's this Guy Leland olds reader. Why are we talking about old? Who comes across as you know a good person? A real idealistic. I thought that it was interesting that you did that to with other characters. Other sort of mini biographies. That appear in the book. That even someone like Richard Russell. You start off and we don't. We don't have a sense of Russell as a tremendous racists from the very beginning your lot about the good things that he did and it isn't until it's almost ballistic. What you do with the character development that you don't the same thing with Eastman who sort of flits in and out in the earlier parts and it isn't until much later in the book that you realized. This guy is a real repressive racist hater. A hater of a black. When you research you read the newspaper Articles The New York Times Washington Russell is held up as the Beau. Ideal of of senator the perfect senator and in foreign affairs he really is like one of the great senators of Rome. When you read about him you study his speeches. You said this must be what a great senators of Rome were like he he had this worldview. American on me should do. This was a very intelligent and informed worldview. Then you start reading the congressional record and you see you can't believe the racism the hatred that sometimes. He's reading speech that you know. He's carefully edited and the hatred comes to and then you realize this is the guy who for thirty years kept the Senate someone said the Senate was the south's revenge for forget nothing can get through the Senate that Russell doesn't want so I said well I can either show the power of the south in the Senate through giving the reader a lecture or I can show it through doing a biography of the man who embodied that power Richard Russell. I have to make the reader really see him so what I did was. I went down to his town wind. You know I'm a northeastern New York. Prison no matter what you think about racism. You don't know it. So he was dead he lived in this house. His father was a judge in a powerful judge when his father Dr Russell idolized the phone and he in Gray. He built an obelisk. You know. It's not a huge house. It's a nice house. Presided US half in the back of it. He builds an obelisk to his father and ordered. It says lover of the old south defender of the new. So you can you start talking one of the things you realize. It wasn't just that he opposed every attempt to make lynching a federal crime. There were two lynchings you say. Where was your? You're reading the weekly newspaper. The Winder whatever it was and talk you know very short. There was an incident on the so and so road. You know that's a lynching you know you talking about. That's just down this road from his house. And then she had two nephews. The law firm penalty who is still called. Russell and Russell. So I've made friends with the two nephews. We're working. I don't remember that. The SARS works wooden. Maybe they were but most of the town is not white. It's so it would be an exaggeration. Familiar say that anyone we walk the breast. You know filling this hard walk. People were coming towards US black people. I don't want to say because I don't really remember that happening that anyone actually stepped off the sidewalk to give us way but I saw the eyes of the people coming towards us and they were ready to stop the sort of work and I just hated. I just came back from that. You said if you make a picture of Russell correctly I don't say I did. It correctly was very hard. I rewrote thing if you do. You're going to show two things the greatness. Oh this man in foreign affairs in directing the armies of the empire it. Let's put it in Roman terms and the horror of this man and playing the leading role in keeping Louis to help black people from passing for decades. And then you say but Lyndon Johnson made Russell believed why did he raise Lyndon Johnson to power? Russell is the guy who raised Lyndon Johnson to power. Then you said you mean Lyndon Johnson made Russia's Russell believe that he believed the same way he did. Yeah that's quite a story. You are famous for taking notes by hand for writing your first and second and third drafts in Longhand and then working on a manual typewriter has technology in any way. There's so much that has been digitized and that's now available video and readily accessible. Has any of this had an effect on the way that you do your research and write. It had no effect on the way right. I still right in the way you just described in longhand typewriter. It has had a terrific effect on my research because the computer makes research like they're all these hearings doing Vietnam the executive sessions of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee or thou- I don't even know the thousands of small print pages. You really read it all but with just safe. One thing control fine. You WanNa know Richard Russell. You know said that's easy so yes it's helped me a lot in recent years because you talk about those huge files just down in the Johnson. Library is that now all digitized and searchable. Almost none of it is subject to some of. It's still hasn't changed. Most of that library hasn't been digital toys. Now you just have to pick the boxes that you feel you would turn every page in. Houston you start off this book talking about your experience as a newspaper reporter. Moseley for Newsday on island where I grew up and I'm curious about two things one. What was the most important thing you learned as a newspaper reporter? That helped you in your in your writing in the process of writing these biographies and is there. Anything that you had to kind of forget because it wasn't useful or wasn't helpful to you will. The most important thing I learned is what I talk about it and working the very first piece of advice I was a new report or I'd never done investigative work. I had this old editor guy out of the front page. I was the First Ivy League graduate who never worked in his city room. I was hired just because he was on vacation. They WANNA play Jokin. He wouldn't even talk to me that I got thrown into an doing something investigative and he liked the memo. I wrote he said exactly. I didn't know someone from Princeton. Could do digging like this from now on you do investigative work all I with my usual poise had something like but I don't know anything about investigative work on this old guard looked at me and he said I've never forgotten the exact words. Just remember one thing. Turn EVERY PAGE. Never assume anything. Turn every Goddamn page and you know. Of course. You can't do that. No Johnson Roy. Doing topic like the Gulf of Donkin. It may take months but you can do it to turn every page and over and over again I his name was Alan Hatheway. I've said to myself. Thank you on because I find some amazing thing. They're in a box just filled with the rest of it is just innocuous stuff and was there anything that you felt like you know what you just kind of. Forget it from your reporting days working fast. People don't believe this anymore. I was really fast rewrite man but I never so. What's things all the way through? You don't as a daily report to tell you the truth. When I started to write the powerbroker I suddenly realized how complicated this was going to be that I understand. Mo. We're Moses got US power. There was so much I didn't understand about. I was going to have to think things all the way through so. That's really the reason Pamela where I write my first drafts in Longhand because the slowest way of committee your thoughts to paper I do a lot of drifts on the one hand and then I go to a minute but in an electric typewriter. I want to ride on a computer. Computers too easy for me. It's fake I. I want to slow myself all right. Well taking a cue from rewriting on interviewing I've saved what is for me at least the most difficult question because they know it's one that you hate getting and so I'm GonNa try not to ask it in the most simplistic way. I know from your book working that you don't like people asking you if you like. Johnson so I don't want to ask it in that way. Exactly perhaps to kind of question. The larger question is do you feel like you get one hundred percent at this point his character and as part of that. Do you find your sympathies with him. Sort of coming and going. I mean he changed a lot right over the course of his life and he was changed by the events of his life. Just curious how. Your sort of personal understanding and sympathies with him or against him have shifted over time. It's a great way to put that question so I spent a lot of time. You know with his brothers and sisters classmates in high school and college. The guys who were in his first political machine I felt I came to understand this character to very strong character at sort of formed in his terrible boy. Is You know you can't really think about Linden. Johnson's boyhood without warning to cry for him because it was a terrible humiliating boyhood in this isolated town. Which is the whole world and in this town his father who was once the most respected me and then it becomes the laughing stock of the town and his family. Is they lose the Johnson ranch. The father makes one mistake. They lose the Johnson ranch. They're living in a little town in Johnson city and every month. They have to worry that the bank's GonNa take that house away. They're often no food in the house. Neighbors have to hear which humiliating terrible? It's a complicated character. There's a deep well of compassion. And you see it. When he was young when schoolteacher teaching Mexican American Kids Lucy it when he's president than gives the great civil rights speech in his speech writer. Richard Goodwin says you really mean this and he says listen. When I was teaching those kids in CA- tool or I swore that if I ever had the power I'd help them and I have the power and now I mean to use it. You said that's a consistent strand then you say this is a braggadocio super masculinity useless refer to his private parts a lot in a very boastful way. There's some great anecdotes about you. I'm not sure I'm going to repeat them on this but you say in Vietnam so much of it goes to that sort of his character. But if you're really asking me my view of his character change. I felt before I started writing the first volume that I had done everything I could to understand this complicated character and I felt that whose life plays out. It doesn't play out in a consistent way but it plays out in a way consistent with that Karen all right. Well that's a very good and careful answer and I feel like we'll find out more from that when we get to volume five of the years of Lyndon Johnson but also there is really a lot of insight into nine in this new book which is a fascinating behind the scenes. The book again is called at working researching interviewing and writing. I Robert Carroll. Father it has been such a pleasure having you here. It was a pleasure thanks. So here's a request for our listeners. I get lots of feedback from you. Some complaints lots of kind words. Really appreciate it. You can always reach me directly at books at NY TIMES DOT Com. I will write back but you can also if you feel move to do so review us on any platform where you download the podcast. Whether that's I tunes or Stitcher Goo play or somewhere else. Please feel free to review us and of course email us at any time. This is Greg Coles. The Book Reviews Poetry Editor for National Poetry Month. We've invited poets onto the podcast to read a poem that's meaningful to them this week. Reginald dwayne Betts whose most recent book was bastards of the Reagan era. And who's next book felon will be released October. Reads may twenty fourth nineteen eighty by Joseph Brodsky de Brain for one while. Bee's still cages. Call my term nickname on bunks rafters. Live at a C. Flash ACIS IN AN OASIS DOWN with the devil knows whom entails on truffles from the height of a glacier of the hale half a world the earthly with twice of drought race lead knives rake my nitty gritty. Quit the country that boy in nurse me those forget me will make a city. I have weighed at the steps that so yellow house and sat ohs on a close nowadays back in fashion and every quarter Planet Ryan. Todd Russa pigsties stables guzzle. Everything saved Drought Water omitted the century. Thir- and semi wet a file dreams Munch the bread of exile estill. Awardee grandma lungs are sounds except the how switched to a whisper. Now I am forty. What should I say about my life? That is long and boys transparence. Broken eggs make me grieve. The omelette though makes me vomit yet so brown clay as ramp down my lawn only gratitude or be gushing from it joining us now to talk about what we're reading my colleagues. Greg Kohl's Tina Jordan and John Williams. Hey Guys John let's start with you. I'm reading a book called Loss Children Archive which got a lot of attention this year when it was published just a couple months ago. I think by Valerie Lewis. Sally and I had read a couple of sell earlier books. I think one was called faces in the crowd and and there was another slender book and they were fairly short very beautiful very smart full of great imagery but a bit oblique and a bit elliptical. Which I like. But that's what they were and looking at this book which is much longer and more ambitious narrative. I wondered if that style would really fit a book like that and it turns out that she's just doing this totally different thing which I'm very impressed by and enjoying about halfway through which is that. She is just telling a bigger story with sort of more traditional digressions and more traditional thoughts about marriage and children and essentially in mostly immigration because it said against the border crisis and it's about two people in New York married couple with two children one from one each from a previous marriage and they drive across country there too. I think they I'll get this word wrong. It's like a cousteau. They take sound recordings for sound documentaries and the husband is obsessed with the Apaches and he's very progressive teaches us kids about American imperialism and the genocide of native peoples and the wife is also very liberal is is feeling alienated from him and she's working on her own project involving lost children meaning kids. Who tried to immigrate to the United States and get lost in the desert or or worse. And they're making these pitstops at motels at Graceland and at diners. And she's just kind of musing on both the strains in her marriage the way she's trying to raise their kids and the way she's trying to teach your kids about how the world can be bad without. Traumatizing them. It's really great. One of the things. I've been wondering about since you've read the earlier bucks. Those were both in her other books published by small independent publishers written in Spanish and then translated. I think this is her second book written in English and this one is a major publishing house Very big book in every way does it feel different like does it feel more commercial. Accessible is more accessible. I don't know how conscious that is a decision. I think she can just do both registers. There was it's a little bit insider baseball but I guess our listeners are insider at this point but the the other thing was that yes. This was a book from cough. Which is sort of the one of the most prestigious large historic publishers in the United States and our previous books were with smaller great presses but probably didn't have the same expectations for how well they would sell her the attention they would get so there's also a sort of satisfying sense of watching a writer. Take a more ambitious swing and hit the ball. More ambitious is maybe unfair to her but just a different type of swing and being able to do that too. She's really rising even further in my estimation than she already was all right over to you. Greg. It looks like you have something also ambitious yet. Well you haven't heard me talking about ulysses for awhile and there's a there is a good reason for that namely shame. I've pretty much stalled out in the long very long night. Town section of Ulysses it's the C section. It is all very hallucinatory dreamlike when I first engaged in reading ulysses a former teacher of mine Michael Cunningham. The novelists said. I wonder if you'll make it through night town and so far Michael. The answer is no but because Mayor Pete Buddha judge if I said that right you did has recently been in the news as a big fan of ulysses and he's talked about it as well. It's a book that really gives you empathy. And let's that other people are as neurotic as you are which is all well and good and true as far as it goes. But it doesn't get very weirdness of this book and it sent me back. The the fact that ulysses has been a news story lately sent me back to Ulysses I pushed forward. I'm proud to say that I'm now less than two hundred pages. From the end of ulysses still in the middle of town I had taken night town at the beginning to be a dream sequence and dream sequence from the character the perspective of bloom. But it's shifted now to being Stephen Douglas's dream sequence which kind of calls into question the whole idea whether it can be a dream at all. If it's shifting points of view from one character to another it ends up in a brothel and there's such weird stuff there's gender bending stuff at one point blum. Who's being cuckolded as this is happening you know. The proprietor of the brothel is offering to let bloom peek through the Keyhole at his wife. Molly and her paramour blazes Boylan and at the same time because of this cuckolding bloom is being completely emasculated. And the brothels madam is turning into a male pimp and bloom himself is turning into a woman wearing skirts and bell. Who's the madame becomes bellow the pimp and is offering to pimp bloom now? Woman out to the to the Johns at the brothel. So it's all very kind of Phantasmagoric And Hallucinatory and then it shifts. You're suddenly in Stevens point of view. So I'm making tiny tiny progress. I will get to it. I'm feeling a little bit competitive now with Mayor Pete and I I need that competition to keep reading a book like this where I stalled out and it was just reading it on on my own at the same time. I've also turned to a book that I had started a few years ago and had to put down for other reasons. It's a book called Goodbye Vitamin by a woman named Rachel Kong her previous book before this was a nonfiction book in praise of the Egg. And it might help you to know that Rachel Kong is a former editor at large at the food magazine. Lucky Peach which I think. It is no longer with us. It was this kind of lovely Literary Beautiful Magazine. Devoted to food but all about kind of good writing and Rachel Kong went on the side and wrote this novel. There was about a young woman. It kind of loose ends. Her engagement has just broken off and her father is developing dementia probably Alzheimer's although you can't tell that until an actual autopsy and her mother asks her to stay home with him for the year to kind of keep an eye on things and the reason that. I put the book down when I first started reading. It is that back in my writing school days. I was working on a novel about a young woman at loose ends. Who takes a year off to go? Look after her father with Alzheimer's and I just thought oh no. I can't read this book. That was so much like wine but in fact it's nothing at all like mine. It's completely different tone completely different plots you know except for those surface similarities. And I'm really enjoying it. She is as debut novelists and Fairly young woman. I think she's still in her thirties. Just seems like a really promising voice. It's written as journal entries and so it's got this built in almost pistolero format it's just kind of great conversational. Humor observational humor. She's it's a very light book considering that it's taking on quite a heavy subject t not. You're not reading anything like I'm not reading anything light. It's almost like really reading. It's it's sort of like looking. I have the magic of handwriting. Which is the catalog that accompanied a an exhibit at the Morgan Library? Which is just a few blocks from here. Which I think Greg. You said you saw I did. I loved that exhibit right and he was just between one hundred and two hundred examples of people signatures and ham writing letters and journals journals even like things like the dog. Licence shined photos right contracts. You know leases. There's just all kinds of things in here. How Stephen Hawking scientists books thumbprint? There was not just writers but scientists and musicians and politicians right. Actually I'm going to read from the table of contents because that makes it easier. So it's divided into chapters art history twentieth-century Europe Literature Science Music Philosophy Exploration Entertainment. I always have had an interest in font I like. I'm one of those people who always as careful typeface too but I also am interested in handwriting and become even more interested in it at the Times because there's so many archival stories about nineteenth century signature and handwriting. And it's you know. I'm a big archives articles about nineteenth century hundred again the nineteenth century for example famous people like many of the people in this book to have their right handwriting to own a piece of it was so desired that at libraries when famous writers had signed the book plates of Books They donated people would rip them out like it was a big scandal. Like if you if you were famous in any way people wanted to collect your handwriting. It'd be like having a lock of your hair. Yeah walking your hair but apparently a lot of books were destroyed like during that time that has been. I have to say going to the Morgan Exhibition when it was on. You do feel that. Something's been lost in the typewriter age because there's this direct line between the brain and the page with the handwriting. And you can you see it. In the spark of the moment. Well there are studies that show that when you write something by hand as opposed to typing or keyboarding s they now call it Showing my age you both acquire and retain the information better than I do it. Now let me ask you a question. You've got kids. What are their signatures like. I feel lucky my kids have all learned cursive so for them. Signature means cursive writing Which they do slowly and laboriously I You know and mock my signature. Which they think. Is You know just sloppy dreadful. My kids signatures are as different as my kids personalities and my my son is sixteen would really if he could get away with just typing his name rather than signing it. I think he would do that. He he is very much a keyboard or my middle child. A daughter is. She's got lovely handwriting almost calligraphy the way she does. Her name of the scrolls and everything and the youngest is only ten. So I think we're still waiting to see what her signature will turn out to be. What's Your Signature Latina? It's degenerated over the years say used to be much clearer than it is now but anyway so this book also it takes me back to like letter writing. I love reading letter collections. And a lot of these are letters and you forget how Winston Churchill was going to be at Chequers. While his wife was in the city he would sit down and write clemmie letter a few times. James Joyce is in there. If I'm not wrong yes James Joyce's as well being wanting to be a musician right. One of my favorites is the Hemingway one. And it's written when Hemingway's twelve years old and he's writing his father and note and he says Dear Daddy. I feel a lot better when all my work is done and my conscience is clear. You can tell. Somebody's dot net trouble. I looked up in my baseball schedule and found out that the New York giants play Chicago. Hey Dad take to a ball it was good to give right so so it really does from the gamut. It's they aren't thing. I'm sure you've probably seen any of those things before. I know anyway fascinating so if anybody else has a handwriting and type you know obsession like I do this book for you. What's the name of it again? So it's called the magic handwriting. And it's from the Morgan Library and Museum Pamela. What are you reading? Journalists are famous for being narcissistic in navel-gazing and love to read books about other journalists and about themselves and I've actually been pretty negligent on that front. I don't live up cystic. I've never read the Gay Talese Book About The New York Times. I've read a couple of books about Washington. Post Katharine Graham Memoir Ben Bradley's memoir but if anything for as much about sort of their lives and the periods in which they lived as as as for their professions and I picked up a book that is the opposite of that is about the New York Times. And it's not a pretty look at the New York Times so it's one of those books that you don't want to walk around the New York Times carrying and yet here. You are on the podcast here. I am announcing to listeners. In any of my colleagues who may be listening but actually it was a colleague who mentioned that she was reading. This and I thought I have that book at home and I picked up. The book is called Hard News twenty-one brutal months at the New York Times and how they changed the American media by Seth Manoukian and I read it. I guess is a journalist. Would in you know a few hours a day because it is really juicy and terrible. Is The story of the period at the New York Times during which Howell Raines was the executive editor. And Jason Blair who was a finalist and plagiarised and really cereal compulsive pathological probably liar was caught plagiarizing and fabricating stories in The Times and this subsequently through a series of events led to Howl Rans and his managing editor Gerald Boyd leaving the paper and ultimately Joe Lally Velde who had been the previous executive editor of taking over temporarily and then Bill Keller becoming the new editor The New York Times. This was in the early audits and two thousand four right. Yes yes I. This happened after I was hired by the times and before I started at the time. Cy watched it in unfolding in real time with kind of horror thinking what am. I getting into welcome to your workplace. What was most interesting to me? Was frankly the depiction of how different journalism was. Not that long ago. You know the Internet was there. There was a many journalism recession after nine. Eleven which people don't really remember because nine eleven was such a cataclysmic event that that journalists really excelled at covering yet in the wake of two thousand and one in about two thousand and two thousand and three. There was a media recession and I remember. Time magazine hiring freeze. A number of magazines went under one of the places that went under was a website called inside dot com together with this magazine. Brill's content where actually very briefly worked alongside the author of this book. Seth Manoukian so I was aware early on of this book. But what's so interesting about it? Is that that. This is the beginning of the era. In which the Internet is starting to make an impact on journalism but it hasn't quite yet fully made its presence known and so the way in which the newsroom is staffed and functions still operates largely along the lines of a print organization and to you know be sort of pushed off to the work on the website was the equivalent of being assigned to the Westchester Edition of The New York Times. It was just like nowhere you wanted to be. If you were an ambitious journalist on the rise so it was a. It was a fun juicy kind of peek at the past the not so distant past all right. Let's run down books again. Greg what did you read? Goodbye vitamin A novel by Rachel Kong. That's K. H. O. N. G. and Ulysses by James Joyce and Tina. Well I can't say I read it but I've been perusing the magic of handwriting. Which is from the Morgan Library and museum and John A rib lost? Children are by Valerie. Louis Ellie and I read hard news by Seth Manoukian Remember. There's more at NY TIMES DOT com slash books and you can always write to us at books at NY TIMES DOT Com. I write back albeit. Not right away. The Rooker v PODCAST is produced by Pedro Rosado from head stepper media with a great help of my colleague. Don Williams thanks for listening for the New York Times. I'm Pamela Paul.

Lyndon Johnson Senate the Times Robert Moses Texas editor New York US Pamela senator US Alice Marsh New York Times Johnson City High School Washington Russell Johnson Roy Lady Bird Robert Moses Gulf of Tonkin
Show 382 / Gardner Museum with Peter Dugan

From the Top with Host Christopher O'Riley

58:51 min | 1 year ago

Show 382 / Gardner Museum with Peter Dugan

"From NPR. It's from the top celebrating the power of music in the hands of America's here's our host pianist. Peter Dugan everyone coming to you from Calderwood Hall at Isabela Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston Massachusetts Isabella. Stewart Gardner was an avid collector of art. In the late Nineteenth Century and early twentieth century she befriended some of the finest painters and musicians of the time and she amassed this huge idiosyncratic and very eclectic art collection which is now what makes this museum in addition to the paintings in the incredible sculpture. They're also artifacts including a cigarette that was road by none other than Yohannes Brahms. I'm still trying to figure out. How big donation. You'd have to make to the museum to convince them to smoke that cigarette but the locals here just really love it for the romantic indoor courtyard which is modeled after these beautiful Venetian Palazzo. It also presents a concert series. And we want to thank the Gardner and Arthur M win and family for making visit here possible now. Today's show skews on the young side even by from the top standards. We have a thirteen year old violinist. Who's been winning competitions here and abroad and we have a twelve year old cellist. Who's going to play popper but also we discovered that he's a composer and he's going to play for us. This beautiful little minuet that when I heard it on Youtube. I thought we need to share that with a larger audience but at the moment we have our oldest performer on today's show coming in at sixteen years old. Wow please welcome from Woodbury New York Caroline Sue Caroline Welcome. I'm so glad that we're starting with a mature August sixteen year old performer. Like yourself what have you got for us. I'll be performing the first movement of Beethoven's Ninth Sonata. Okay when you're ready. Please take it from the top Caroline Sues Sixteen New York performed the opening movement of Beethoven's Walstein Caroline. What incredible performance. It was powerful. It was sublime it surged with energy and as a pianist. I have to say the way you command. The rotational wrist motion in the left hand of that quasi trim llandough figure that's brilliant. I need lessons from you on that can we? Can we just nerd out for a second? Since we're both pianists for sure okay. Good yeah I'd like to have a little peons to pianist moment. We talked about maybe trading tracks. Who's a pianist who you admire? I Love Kissing Paulini but I especially Admire Martha our garage. Yeah she's one of the greatest of all time. Well we've got one of your favorite tracks queued up by Margaret. And as we're listening to it tell us what we're hearing and what you love about it So this is Martha Performance of Liszt's six Hungarian rhapsody and shall I initially heard this recording. When I was around six years old and I remember just being like wow out like. I couldn't imagine that one day I would actually be able to learn this piece and so when I listened to it. It's impossible not to feel your heart racing and also your blood pumping because she just evokes so much energy and I really admire her passion her spirit when she's playing. Listen to those octaves. Her power is incredible and she brings this Hungarian folk energy. You know the way. She's just pounding that left hand. This is incredible okay. So here's another pianist who is known for incredible octaves incredible technique and also a lot of soul. You're listening to Oscar Peterson play. Give me the simple life. Oscar Peterson is one of my all time. Heroes and like our garage. He has this muscular way of attacking the octaves and he brings this raw impassioned energy to what he's what he's doing and what's incredible is that it's improvised. What do you think of this? I think I think he just became one of my favorite Vienna's too happy to hear that I love it because it's like it shows to contrast to the previous peace and I feel like whereas this is just like as like all powerful and just like perform on a stage. I feel like this piece is like more spontaneous and I really feel like I can just like vibe with it. Yes definitely okay. So now I have a sense of your musical heroes. But who are your heroes beyond music? So my musical journey has. It's not necessarily as glamorous there's obviously the disappointment of competition and. I think that throughout my time studying music my whole family has been my heroes. I would have to say that because especially after a disappointing competition outcome. My mom has always been there to you. Know really telling me that competition are not the only thing that matters and I think most importantly she tells me that just because I think it was good like the judges may be looking for something different or maybe someone else had something more special that they had prepared and that and to me like my mom and my the rest of my family always puts things in perspective. I really respect them for that and for that. They're my heroes. Beautifully said yes. Always blame it on the judges. Thank you so much. For being with Carolina through sharing track from Caroline Series Sixteen in Woodbury New York for the last fifteen years from the top and the Jack Kent. Cooke Foundation have awarded over. Three million dollars in scholarships to talented young musicians. Who HAVE FINANCIAL NEED? We still have more to give from the top dot Org to learn more Peter. Thanks Joanne. Thirteen year old. Rebecca Bego is joining us now on stage. She's from New York City. I'm going to get set up over at the piano and while I do that would you please introduce what we're going to play. We will be performing Gypsy Capris by Fritz Kreisler. Hope you enjoy Along Gone Beca NATO thirteen from New York New York performed Gypsy caprice by Fritz. Kreisler yours truly at the piano. Thank you for that wonderful performance and it was just so much fun to dance together with with you. It's got so much character and you really brought it to life now for those of you just tuning in. We're coming to you from the Isabella Gardner Museum in Boston Massachusetts. And we had a really special opportunity today. Rebecca we got to go on a tour of the museum and from what I understand. You got a little extra inspiration. Yeah I saw a picture of image of a Gypsy and it was so inspiring to see because I saw how the Gypsy looks so so had so much free M. and we're so confident in while she was dancing. Yeah so you're talking about this painting L. Helio by John Singer Sargent and it's one of the one of the great pieces here and absolutely I felt like you brought that spirit and soulful nece that we saw in the painting. You brought it to your performance tonight so bravo now. I'm quite jealous of you. I have to say because music has brought you to Italy twice and you're only thirteen. So how did that come about well? A few years ago I went to my first competition. Well what happened was that I had to play a twenty minute program and it was really stressful because never done that before. And what was surprising was that one and I was invited next year to play with an orchestra which was really cool. Amazing let's talk about the important thing though. What did you think of the food okay? So gelato is amazing. You cannot compare it to New York. Ice came is just no no comparison? What's your favorite flavor cheesecake cheesecake? I Love New York cheesecake but for Gelato for me. It's hell. That's my favorite cheesecakes. Better okay we can discuss this after the program. Yeah okay now. I heard that while you're in Italy. You went to some pretty amazing museums right. There was a concert that Concert Hall. That was in the shape of a violin. And it's basically like the homeless strategy which is like know the big giant violins great. So yeah well now. The Italians loved you of course but you don't have to go all the way to Italy define fans in fact you were just honored recently at your school. Yeah recently I want my school's Concerto competition and thank you and actually this Sunday. I got to play with an orchestra as a soloist three days. Yeah right when I get back amazing. That's the that's the life for the traveling musician. You'll you'll do great and we so enjoyed having you on the program today thank you. Thank you throw thirteen tuning joining me now. On stage is an outstanding sixteen year old guitarist. He's flown in from Palo Alto California and from what I understand. He just saw snow for the first time today here in Boston. I don't know if it was the most picturesque experience with snow. Sorry about that. But his name is Connor Padmanabahn. And he's going to perform for us the third movement of the SONATA FOR GUITAR BY HAKEEM. Tarinah Ooh third movement of Kaz Sonata for guitar performed by Connor. Pod MANAB IN SIXTEEN IN PALO ALTO. California. Wow thank you for that performance. It was stunning the amount of contrast that you brought to it gave us this spicy fiery stuff but also all of these beautiful delicate sounds as well. I really enjoyed hearing. Thank you now like guitars? I've met year pretty laid back. Dude is that an accurate description. A lot of people describe me as chill and lay back also. And that's also I feel like a lot of guitarists started like that. Also having other instruments aren't but definitely guitarist I think it's fair to say that his pianist tend to be a little bit more high strung than you but yeah you know you've got this vibe but you say that kind of jokingly that that's not something you inherited from your mom. Yeah Viacom she. She's always supporting me and In the past she always remind me like. Oh you gotta practice do your homework. Yup and she's always the same thing. Yeah she used to be really tough mean she helped me get to where I am too. But yeah in a way like you have heard. Thanks for being here tonight. Yes actually she was the one that got me through not wanting to quit guitar because when I was thirteen or no when I was around eleven. I made my mom promise that when I turned thirteen I could quit guitar and I think she was smart. She knew that she agreed then. I'd I'd will willingly continue guitar till I turned thirteen right. And then when I turned thirteen either forgot about that promise or I decided I come far enough so I should keep doing awesome. We're sure glad that you did now. You have musicians in your family but who are not classical. Yeah so my grand uncle Jerry. Kat He was the guitarist in the boomtown rats. Whoa the Irish band. Yeah led by Bob Geldof. And he also helped me get into guitar. He gave me my first guitar. Wow Yeah isn't very tiny guitar and it stayed in my family and we gave it to our three cousins for temporarily so spreading guitar throughout the family spreading the loan. I love that and you also play a bit of Pop yourself yeah. I play a lot of pop music. I find it very relaxing. I play stuff like Ed. Sheeran coldplay and something I like to do. Is I bring Mark Guitar out on the grass just as my friends and just play music and I feel like it's really relaxing and taking us full circle to that chill vibe. We talked about yes. Yeah I wish I could do that with the piano. We talked about maybe you and I playing an Edgier in tune. I think it would be fun. What do you think we do? Yeah we should play perfect by. Let's play perfect edged. This'll be a great way to end time on the show together Hello thanks for the gym. Check out from the tops video. Docu series where music lives hosted by Kevin Lucia of the Grammy Award winning Acapella group Pentatonic meet fantastic and musicians in their own communities at from the top dot org support for NPR. Comes from this station and from Columbia records featuring the dixie chicks new album gas lighter their first studio album in fourteen years. The title track gas lighter is available everywhere now and the new dixie. Chicks album is available everywhere. May I from the Jack Kent? Cooke Foundation providing scholarships to high achieving students with financial need jk cf dot org and from the listeners who support this. Npr station Aw from NPR. It's from the top celebrating the power of music in the hands of America's kids this week. We're coming to you from caller with Hall at the Isabella. Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston Massachusetts. Coming up a sibling violin. Duo Performs Paganini carnival of Venice from the top's appearance at Calderwood Hall is made possible with support from Arthur M win and family additional support. And Wayne Barnes here again. Is Our host pianist. Peter Dugan thanks to him well the youngest performer on today's show is up next. He's twelve year old cellist. Joshua Kovic and Joshua tell everyone where you're from. I'm from Johnson City Tennessee. Now Joshua you may be small of stature but you my friend are big of sound I know. Sometimes your friends give you a hard time. There's this low hanging fruit kind of joke. They say. Hey your chillers bigger than you. But you're tired of hearing that aren't you? Yes so one day. I tried to go inside my cello case. I did not fit so I am still bigger than the cello message received. What have you brought for us to play together? I will be playing Polaner's Day concert by David Popper. Let's do it bureau Joshua Kovacs from Johnson city. Tennessee performed concerts collines by. David Popper Joshua's one from the top's Jack Kent Cooke Young Artists. That was a lot of fun. Yes it was. That was a ride. Wow so much energy now. You're twelve years old and because of that we're going to have this interview kind of bounce around a lot. Because you have various twelve-year-old interests. Is that cool? Yeah Okay so first of all I'm guessing you recognize this. Yes what is it Rubik's Cube? We have presented you with the Rubik's cube. Would you please solve it? Yeah okay go. His fingers moving furiously possible. How's it happening so fast domes- up the sense that it's almost there pressures writing fast terrifyingly fast? What's your fastest time? Nine point. Four seconds what the world record three point four seconds almost there almost there and I know some people have actually done this blindfolded. How is that possible? They use an algorithm to switch to pieces around without messing up the rest of the cube so when they memorize it they can just use the algorithm to put all the pieces in the right spot makes perfect sense to me. Okay onto other topics. Can we discuss the Boston Bruins? Sure Yeah you're a fan for some reason even though you're from Tennessee. What's would that? My parents are from the Czech Republic and there are a lot of check players on the team. Well there you go and now I know it's a lot of fun watching with your family but it's also annoying a little bit right yeah. The commentator pronounces the Czech players. Names incorrectly. Okay so for example. Let's listen to a clip from a Bruins game where the announcer is talking about. One of those fantastic check players are ruined thirty three. Okay what you have to say that he said the day no Chara And it's actually said this. Is Dan Okara Kara? Kara I can do it. Why can't he will. Maybe you have a future sportscasting but I have a feeling cello is gonNA work out just fine for you and you have family in the Czech Republic right yes. Did you learn to speak the language? Yeah I did amazing. Let's talk for a second about composing okay because this is yet another one of your favorite interests and I was wondering if you could just share with us. How did you get into composing? What age when I was eight years old? I started improvising random melodies on the cello. And sometimes my dad liked what I did so he told me to play it again but I always played it a little differently because I didn't remember exactly what I played. So now I like put up a recording device and play it and then use it to write down. The music makes sense. So you're essentially writing down your improvisations. I was wondering if we could end our time together. Here on the show with you just leaving us a little taste of something you've written. I mentioned at the start of the show that I heard this youtube. The of you performing this really delightful minuet that you composed tell us about the minuet and then maybe play a little bit. It is from a series suite that was inspired by Bach. A sweet is a borough piece composing of several movements it starts with the prelude and then follows with several dances. So I'll be playing the fifth one the MINUET. And how old were you when you wrote this minuet ten? Now you're an old man. You're twelve okay. Play us some of that MINUET. I love to thank you so much. Aw ooh From Johnson City Tennessee. Little minuet that he can pays from the top musicians. WanNa change the world for the better and we're here to support them. That's why from the top offers leadership training to Oliver Young Musicians and we're out there with them doing community engagement projects across the country. Learn more about our programs at from the top dot. Org podcasts of from the top include music and talk not featured on the radio broadcast. They're available every week at from the top dot org or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi I'm Shannon. I'm sixteen years old. Oh I'm Daniel and I'm fourteen years old or younger brother and this is the music upon these gave senior. He's a Dominican Band leader and we grew up with this kind of music all the time in the kitchen. My mom would actually listen to this while cooking and she would dance and out. Just stand there looking at it. Like what did he do like bombs to make dance with her and I would usually record it because I didn't want to be part of the dancing But it was always just accomplice seen in the kitchen with her cooking and also dancing at the same time long. These gay rights Dominican. But we're not Dominican we're Costa Rican my one of my favorite memories just being at Costa Rica's always seeing family because all of our extended family lives there. I'm we have dual citizenship. So we usually would spend a lot of time during the holidays there In the New England area the beach is very cold. And it's not very warm like Costa Rica so I feel like Oh is very important to us as a family so although we did hear a lot of Caribbean music growing up like when we gave her I think classical music had a much bigger impact on our upbringing. Like this was my dad's alarm task waking up. Every morning my dad would play. Handel's water music because that was something that his parents dead so he kind of passed that down to us and then at night. That had us go to sleep this way so I think hearing the concerto to kind of go to sleep every night Really got me into classical music and I just love the sound of the violin and my mom noticed that I started pretty much just because my sister. I've always aspired to me like my sister. Especially in the practicing part of the Violin She always has a great like disciplined practicing as always very detailed and specific when I listened to Daniel and watch him perform. I think I really admire the way that he performed under pressure. I think I'm more of a stressed person under pressure and I I do pay a lot of attention to detail and I think he kind of let's go on his performances and really is able to express himself through his performances. Which is something I really admire. So today we're going to be playing the carnival of Venice by Pakistani. I think one of the things that is challenging about this piece is the fact that we have to both play the theme and company another and I think one of the most important things with that is that we have to Gel together and sound like the other and imitate each other so when Daniel has the theme on the G string I wouldn't want to play completely different from him like this. Of course I would want to match the spirit of his sound. Something more like this Move so again. This is the carnival. Venice Bypass Anini arranged for two violins. Uh-huh and and visible Chin Thirteen and sixteen years respectively from Windham New Hampshire performed carnival of Venice. Arrange to buy nuclear to take us out of the program today. We asked the sixteen year old guitarist who we met earlier on the program. Connor pod Manab and to perform an encore for US connor. Long Time. No see my friend. Welcome back to the stage. What have you got for us? I'll be playing tango and sky by Roland de ends. It's a great fiery spicy way to end our show today to all the young musicians on this show. I just want to thank you for sharing your artistry with us we so admire your dedication to this art form and to you listening at home or in your car or walking down the street or mowing the lawn. Thank you for joining us. I'm pianist Peter Dugan and now connor. You can take it from the top uh-huh From the top is written and produced by Tim Banker and Tom Vaguely with music director. Meghan Swan the production manager is Matt Deichmann with assistance from Lev Memoria and Abby Enzo Technical Direction by Barrett will with John Escobar. Chris Rando Endeavour. The executive director is Gretchen. Nielsen I'm Joanne. Robinson from the top as an independent nonprofit organization based in Boston if you'd like to appear on our program apply online at from the top dot org from the top of supported in part by award from the National Endowment for the Arts on the web at Arts Dot Gov Support for NPR. Comes from this station. And from the Andrew W Mellon Foundation guided by the belief that the arts and humanities are essential to the well-being of diverse and democratic societies learn more at Mellon Dot. Org from the John. D and Catherine T. MacArthur foundation supporting creative people and effective institutions committed to building a more just verdant and peaceful world. More information is at macfound Dot Org and from the Kresge Foundation at Kresge Dot Org.

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What It Took To Close Rikers

What Next | Daily News and Analysis

22:28 min | 1 year ago

What It Took To Close Rikers

"Extraordinary people and the mindsets and behaviors that drive them to achieve inspiring things join host and doctor of clinical psychology. Julie Gerner I she talks to leaders like in this episode of what next is brought to you by the relentless a new podcast from Sleet Studios in century twenty one real estate the relentless is Kanat Mary's desk and I'll talk to you tomorrow more than a dozen deaths on rikers may have been linked to inadequate medical treatment last year an inmate said she was raped by guards us a lot of them are still angry today on the show we're going to explain why and we're GonNa talk about how rikers became a symbol of everything that's corner giving speeches about revolution and they've always had one persistent requests From Connecticut to California from Mississippi to Minnesota millions of American businesses are using google tools to grow online businesses like strider bikes in rapid city. South Dakota are using tools like Google market finder and Google ads it seems to have worked Xilin rikers island is a stain on New York City rikers island should have been closed decades the rikers for good but conditions matter these jails are disgusting these jails should have been closed years ago we in the middle of New York City's East River between Queens and the Bronx is an island an island built out of landfill rikers island is home to thousands of inmates the press has tallied up horror stories about life inside in the last decade I shut rikers down and the thing is this protest expand their reach and connect with more customers globally and more customers globally means it's strider bikes can hire more employees back home in the US the growth it sounded a lot like those roadside protests in Queens Cory Johnson City Council Speaker he made the speech right before leading vote to shut oh and street trash that now sprawls more than four hundred acres some people call it torture island other people say it's Gladiator School of learning about triumph and rejection and how they continue to evolve listen and subscribe to the relentless today wherever you get your podcasts a few years ago protesters out front had a different name for this island called rikers island. The Abu Ghraib of New York delivery vans and protesters over the last five years protesters of lay down in the middle of that road blocking the street they've stood on go in many of the people on rikers island never should be there to begin with earlier this month the New York City Council Chamber on wrong in the criminal justice system and what it means to Tara symbol like that down do a Mary Harris you're listening to what next stick with us the one that's google dot com slash grow there's also only one road leaning on and off the island one road for visitors and workers and Google initiative is committed to helping American businesses like strider bikes use the web to grow grow with Google provides free digital skills workshops and one on one coaching into small businesses in all fifty states helping them get online connect with new customers and work more productively learn more at Google dot com slash grow I was a local reporter New Jersey and then Michael barone happened and I was like I have to cover this story like I have to follow the movement a years rikers is violent crowded and many say fundamentally unfair that's because a defendant could spend years behind bars simply that's what it is it's a torture chamber this is where they murder people they've run lies people doing it today I will probably vote yes thank you all very very much but the activists who started because he can't afford bail since rikers is a jail not a prison many inmates haven't actually been convicted of a crime there just waiting that is looking into how we make sure something like this happens less frequently Aaron says in New York City problems have been building up for we're being accused of stealing back and he's booked in jail and is held on ten thousand dollars bail out that he cannot afford man rather say a young black teen sixteen years old when he is arrested and charged with in recent years all these problems were embodied in the story of one young man named Khalif Browder so Khalid brought her as a young in that particular part of the jail he is subjected to any number of traumas abuse by guards attacks I asked Aaron Morrison from the appeal to tell me more about the movement to close rutgers he started reporting on criminal justice reform about five years ago sort so he is put in a part of the jail where they put juvenile offenders and from other from other inmates and he's also kept in solitary confinement for a pretty significant amount of time to but horrifying in one a guard casually approaches Khalif sell stretches like yawning and opens the cell door about Khalif brought her story before he was released after Khalif was released journalists and covered these videos from when he was in custody there silent they told him he could get out he just pled guilty yes but he said I didn't do it right and it was standing on that Khalifa's handcuffed he's supposed to be heading to the shower but instead the guard slams Khalif to the ground then picks him up and throws him in the point where it in his own words he's saying that that is really what drove him into what he would later identify as Depression Opposite Direction mashing police head into the floor in another video a group of Inmates Attack Leaf all in plain view of the guards and I think it's that video coupled with his own out of his mouth you know telling his story petrified it gave it gave the movement this focus for some reason I think when you have so much horrible nece it becomes a blur and then the weight of three years of having to go through all all of that and being that environment I think that with the video it abuses in the back in the nineteen early nineteen ninety s and that's when rikers population was huge compared to what it is now it's triple reframe the conversation around criminal justice reform now let's remember that by this time there's a bipartisan are and then when you have a focus of one person everyone can start seeing themselves inside that person there's two interesting things for people to after he does become a lightning rod and speaks out and gives interviews and Really is the inspiration around the close rikers movement the trauma took its toll on him and he took his own life in twenty fifteen to me as a New Yorker I felt like Khalif Broder's death try I tried to resort to challenge correctional officers that I wanted to on psychiatrists or counsellors something I was telling I need mental help because I was feeling right but as an economic issue you know there were plenty of Republicans and conservatives saying you know this our criminal justice system it's it's it's huge and it's called I think also played a role in pushing not only Khaliq browder story into the forefront but the stories of so many other folks who have similar understanding and willingness to address criminal justice reform as not only as a social issue answerable I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do I'm not going to plead or something I didn't do I think that's what helped to get the initial attention on his case because we knew her experiences that that built the case against a place like rikers so you're describing this kind of perfect storm and let's think about it you're arrested charged with a crime not convicted not convicted yet you're you're waiting presumably moment a lot of things happening at once first of all this young man dies and they're already been a movement to close rikers because of law all day I was scared all day because I didn't know where we come from I don't know talking about what solitary confinement to him how long he spent in solitary I all in the ninety s what it is today and you know part of that is the downward trend of of the daily populations but then you also had to contend with the the downward trend the fact that fewer and fewer people are incarcerate exactly you you you could not think it helps that there are people who heard story a news that too longstanding issues with how the guards behaved and the facilities how did as this movement began to grow how did it also begin to change the dishonest about about that because that was a fact is fact we're we are locking up hewer people in New York City today then in Brooklyn Manhattan the Bronx and Queens and those jails would be near areas where people could easily access them the city council voted on a plan that would close rikers by twenty twenty six and meanwhile they would construct four jails so so to two things were were happening you know you had these really traumatic stories two point two these conversations around the country but also in New York City what's happening in in on the grass roots level in local communities but also what's happening in our media and our art not even make it to your trial and I think that's a reality that so many people don't realize is happening like the council met and they voted on a plan for what to do next with rikers. This is a long disgust idea what happened the further than just the CARSO ration- and and dropping the rate of people who who are are locked in the first place so this month the city I know about records people didn't become outraged about what's going on rikers after the story there'd been complaints of Ram Mr helping to push Khaliq broader story into the the public consciousness than not just in New York City across the country is scary and I wasn't I wasn't France shrinking it to one where you know you're not actually removing people from their communities but keeping them sort of connected to the we have maybe ever but certainly in the nineties when when the population peaked so if that is the size of our our criminal justice system so so you had the bipartisan you know sort of foundation for what would then lead to for them they're gonNA notice if you have a black guy they're gonna notice if something's going wrong you're going to tell them exactly now this plan it does reduce the number of jail and I think it's palatable because if I live in queens and my brother is locked up in jail that is to subway stops away from where I live there's a lot of money and for them that wasn't issue that that that you know that sort of helped turn the tide like well let's figure out a way to to shrink the any kind of win well it depends on who you ask the price tag was such that you're saying yes your loved one to the visiting room where you can where you can you can see that person so we're we're talking about taking that process either for your trial or for deal or to interrupt but the conditions on the inside of the jail are such that you made people who likely care most about them so it was it was that idea that I think really helped Pe- some people say oh actually that that doesn't sound too bad has moved with now Trent in major crime violent crime in New York City but what we know is that there are still stories horror stories that are coming out of rikers I guess in the idea is if you have more is on everyone that it creates less possibility for abuse to but if your family's visiting you more often it's easier now this is a delicate question and and if you don't know about this you know obviously the story in tragedy when after he's released unity programs more diversion programs shifting that funding into into a place that would keep the incarceration rate get the case that is the reality and then I think it really shifted the conversation around the the activists who want us to see something even sometimes it can be a couple of hours to get to where you need to be then you take a bus to actually get on the island then you wait for however long it takes for them to bring who probably will fare better if he knows that he still has there are people who can come see him still care about him in our you know haven't the people in there so when you don't have friends it's really scary because you don't know what anybody would do to you and I know you don't got nobody to back up so they will fill them they can make all the promises in the world about locking fewer people up but if there are empty jail cells and entirely closing acres it's a first step they can have a powerful ripple effect think of it this way if if the jail population the to really cross country and politics of of what dicara rations so you know if if your family members in the Queen's jail you presumably don't live that far and are able to visit for these activists decoration needs a permanent commitment to not just putting fewer people behind bars but finding ways for them to avoid the criminal justice system and in the city what's interesting is that advocates are making this argument that jail beds it's like the ultimate stick China's going down the that means maybe prosecutors offices don't need as many Ada's if you don't need as many Jalen heads and you can close down portions of a facility are you saving money and how many guards you've employed I think what some of the activists groups said is okay all right great now let's take some of that money and reinvest in things that will be listen so the fight against jails becomes a fight against a lot of other things that have been very resistant to change right improve the lives improve quality of life for for folks who had disproportionately been a subject to mass incarceration policies in this country close rikers but build these new jails at a cost of eight billion dollars that could be spent on so many other things and and what they were asking for was more services more to use against the police force where you don't have some place to put someone you have to stop just like bringing people in for whatever re daily population of our jails in half further so we said five thousand they want it to be thirty five hundred people forgotten about him because I'm reggae island it's literally an island is glittering island where if you live in Queens then you you take a subway stole a sandwich and is clearly just Hungary are their city services or resources that say we don't have the association it you have to change what police officers arrest people for you have to change what prosecutors pursue and the politics shift in our in our city or in our country where criminal justice reform is not as sexy as it as it has in my mind goes to a place of okay so if you're adding police officers to the subway I can't imagine the idea that you've got the New York Governor Andrew Cuomo proposing to add five hundred police officers to police the subways and I don't know if you've seen the recent video that's gone viral where there is a young man who they've accused institutions within that whole system the politics shift and you can fill that jail up even though there are fewer bad you can still fill it up really quickly started with interaction with with the police department so you can't be couple those two things if if you're talking about yes we're talking about the jail but each person that's you know in in one of those cells are in one of those bads in the jail it often would be jailed in in our cities jails at any given time but but there are also folks who were saying look if you build them are you in need of as much money in funding as you need it in the in the nineties no you don't need you don't meet those things so what where it is or maybe even going going even lower I mean even bill de Blasio said the mayor said yes you know we're gonNA with this new plan we're going to be able to cut the average a world in which you're adding those police officers to just sit around and twiddle their thumbs these other stakeholders has been then you could see those jails fill up overnight just just shift in just a small shift in the public awareness and can be closing jails you can be closing prisons but if you're not dealing with shrinking the size of other stakeholders or there are about five or six officers outside of the train with their guns pointed at and I can go visit him you know as often as I like or whenever the jail allows me to that creates a dynamic for my brother not all of them have to change the way they do their their jobs the way they function in the system unless people force them to so yes send you to jail cell for for this one thing that struck me recently after especially after this vote to close rikers was list of fair jumping the turnstile you sitting inside of a subway he's got his hands up and the reason why he has his hands up is because super nerve an author of radical candor Kim Scott as well as sports executive Andrew Brandt about what sets them apart and how they view success differently you'll hear about what forest cases what do do they divert if a person needs mental health treatment are they making those resources available to that person if a person bad this does you know right now seven thousand people in rikers this would get it down to five thousand so advocates does that feel like all right that's the show what next is produced by Daniel Hewitt Mara Silvers Mary Wilson and Jason Deleo D- I'm Mary Harris you can find me during the day on twitter Aaron Morrison thank you so

rikers island New York City Xilin rikers island Google Julie Gerner Kanat Mary Connecticut Sleet Studios Khaliq South Dakota Abu Ghraib Minnesota US Cory Johnson City Council Queens East River Mississippi California
Welcome to Wise County

The Uncertain Hour

37:00 min | 2 years ago

Welcome to Wise County

"You've heard us say that the uncertain our is produced by marketplace. But something you might not have heard is that we are a nonprofit news organization. Some of our funding comes directly from listeners like you who believed that the stories we tell and how we tell them are important and want to make it possible for us to do. More of them to support our work contribute today at uncertain our dot com. World record the cases come up with the regime versa. Jessica Ray shooter up Tober 2017. Jessica Schuler is sitting in a courtroom in wise county in the Appalachian mountains of Virginia. Green sweater, long blonde hair. Very quiet. She's twenty nine years old works as a waitress has an eleven month old baby. She's looking kind of nervous sitting beside her lawyer hands folded in her lap Schubert. Ask you stand. Please raise your right hand. You sell them with swear from test. When you give me the truth, the whole truth nothing, but the truth the giants honorable Chadwick Dotson start to reading the charges against her. Forge a check to the prejudice of another with intent to defraud to charges of forgery, plus five felony the maximum punishment of ten years in the penitentiary had you plead to that George. Company just speak up formula. But please, okay. And it goes on to charges of uttering or handing a forged check to a Bank teller getting money from the forged check. That's a grand larceny charge. Two more charges of prescription fraud guilty guilty guilty same please each time. Judge Dotson asks Jessica if she understands the charges against her if she can read the English language. Yes, she responds. She has a college degree. He asks if she has any questions. No. She says shooter explain your rights to hear these still interrupt pleaded guilty to these charges and then his tone kind of changes what happened. Why? Problems, and it's kind of hard to hear she told the judge she had a drug problem. So she wrote and cash checks in her father's name. And then she stole medication oxycodone when she was working as a registered nurse at a hospital by saying it was for a patient. Medication out for myself. These charges are four years old. The judge asks white it takes a long to get her here. Her lawyer explains Jessica didn't know there was a warrant out for her arrest till she applied for a passport when she found out. She turned herself in he tells the judge his client had a drug problem. She went to rehab. She's been sober ever. Since. Once that had been get myself into rehab. We're at gala and she had to get out of wise county to get sober. She told the judge wise county has some of the highest prescription opioid rates in the country, for example in two thousand fifteen one little town in this county had more prescriptions than residents we're talking five prescriptions for every man woman and child to break her drug habit. She moved to North Carolina where she now lives with her fiance, her stepsons and her baby. Amble on this thing because it must've been pretty bad for all this for come to this before the court sentences. You you wish to make a statement? Charges Jessica's pleading guilty to each carries. A maximum sentence of five ten even twenty years in prison, the maximum punishment could be on these charges. It's a lot. Yes. It's more time than you'd be able to serve. The judge means that if he sentences her to maximum back toback sentences, she'll never get out of prison. But this judge has a little more leeway than the judge who sentenced Keith Jackson. What happens next is up to him? Welcome back to be uncertain. Our I'm Chrissie Clarke senior correspondent from marketplace's wealth and poverty dusk. And this season. We're asking the question how do drug epidemic and over the last few episodes. We told you about the ramp up of the war on drugs during the crack epidemic of the nineteen eighties. When it was disproportionately people of color standing before judges getting long prison sentences now we're going to turn to the opioid epidemic. The biggest drug epidemic. This country has ever known. It started with prescription painkillers and his evolved to include drugs like heroin and sentinel. It has lasted longer than the crack epidemic. It's hit more communities, and it's hurt many more people, including many more white people like Jessica Schuler. We'll get back to her story later on over the next few episodes. We're going to look at some of the ways the country is still reckoning with tough on drug crimes policies set decades ago back then there was widespread. Agreement that the laws needed to get tougher. Among both Democrats and Republicans today. The opposite is true. Both Republicans and Democrats have worked to roll back some of those same policies, but if you don't fight an epidemic with law enforcement. What do you do instead for the next few episodes were returning to wise county Virginia a place that struggling to recover from a tidal wave of drug addiction to see what's changed? And what hasn't and to ask. What might stop the deadliest drug epidemic ever to hit this country? We went to wise county last season on the uncertain. Our when we were asking the question how did the opioid epidemic start and in that episode, which you should check out, by the way, our producer? Caitlyn went to wise county to see how the early and lax regulation of prescription painkillers played out. Now, she's going back to catch up with the people. She met back then and with one guy in particular because his story is the story of wise history shows what happened there, and she wanted to know how it turned out for him and a lot of other people like him. So I'm going to hand the story over to kaitlin now. And a warning this episode does have a few swear words in it. The guy I wanted to catch up with is Joey Ballard a copy. No, I told me about him. The cop said, no one knows local drug markets better than this guy. He was on pain pills. I busted my few times. But he's sober. Now. You gotta talk to Joey Joey had left wise. So a few days later, I drove about two hours across the Tennessee border to meet him in the parking lot of discount tobacco store. I had no idea what Joey looked like. So he texted me a picture of his face scruffy beard and light Brown hair black glasses and a white t shirt. It was the spring of twenty seventeen early on a Sunday morning. And it was Joyce forty second day off of drugs. Well, all drugs, except for pot a pretty big deal since he'd been using drugs for most of the past fifteen years as I pulled into the parking lot. I saw him standing alone. The lot was deserted except for one other car. The car pulled away when I arrived suspicious. I thought I found out later. It was Joey's mother in that car. She was so worried that he was sneaking off to buy drugs that she followed him over that spring and summer I interviewed Joey a couple of times we would drive to a park ready. Tell me where we are getting a level for you. We're in Johnson city, Tennessee, we'd sit at a picnic table in the shade surrounded by lots of grass and trees. That's pretty much it and that sound is crooked. You hear? Did you hear? Some of it's. Joey grew up in wise county, and he spent most of his life there around the same people. It's a police he describes as. Spec on the map. Joey's dad was a mechanic his mother worked in a sewing factory for a while then stayed home with the kids. There wasn't a whole lot to do. In wise county when Joey was a teenager on the weekends. He drive around with friends hang out at WalMart smoke a little pot, and when he was in high school in the late nineties early two, thousands pain pills, flooded wise county graduated. It's all I mean, it was everywhere you could order online. If you wanted them, you could go down the street and get them. Then matter you, get them wherever you wanted to. Let me just say because you'll hear Joey refer to drugs by name Lord tab, Oxycontin, Percocet. These are all pain pills prescription opioids by the early two. Thousands wise had them all when Joey was about twenty. He met a woman at work. Just young love is what it was young Louis. Brought more less they dated for a little while then got married. She was the step daughter of a local AUSSIE contin dealer. The wedding gift from Joey's new father in law to the young couple with cash and Oxycontin, the first time I ever did anonymously split at twenty milligram peel with my wife. Puke for three hours off and all three hours Ha's hail. Give a lot of people feeling of euphoria and a sense of well being and if you crush pills and snort them like Joey was doing you get the full impact of the drug all at once along with a megadose of the drugs common side effects, nausea and vomiting. Of course today, we all know how it dictate opioids can be but back in the early two thousands, Joey didn't fully realize the risky was taking Oxycontin was much stronger than any drug he'd ever tried. It's similar to heroin. I mean, it was just it blew my mind. Like it was such a good high. And it's funny though, you would think oh, well, this is gonna make me throw up. What's not take it common sense? I bet probably the first. Kinder- fifteen times, I took Oxy or snorted Oxy. I threw every. Soon. Joey developed a tolerance and stopped puking. He didn't realize it at the time. But he was slipping deeper into drug use getting high on the weekends. Then every day soon. Joey was driving his new father in law to a gas station in Knoxville once a month to meet his dealer. No, absolutely. No exaggeration. Five minutes. Turnaround drawback. He would come back with five or six hundred pills. And I'm like how hail's he do like using. No any and it's literally just a drop off you pay for gas food. Get us hollow Tom and then give us like ten eighties eighties refers to ten Oxycontin with eighty milligrams of oxycodone in a pill. That's really strong, by the way, for example. If you get your wisdom teeth pulled at the dentist, you might be prescribed bottle of pills each with five milligrams of oxycodone the eighties. Joe is talking about are sixteen times strong for a lot of people addiction began in the doctor's office after tooth was pulled or a leg was broken. And a lot of pills that were sold on the street started out as legitimate prescriptions. Resold by middleman dealers throughout the two thousands before prescription monitoring programs are really common. You could visit doctors in different states and get several prescriptions or Jinya Kentucky, Tennessee, you could hit up three pill mills in an afternoon. Joey's father in law would by hundreds of pain pills in Knoxville, and then Joey would drive him back to the Appalachian mountains of Virginia to sell the going price for Oxycontin, then was a dollar milligram. So a single eighty milligram pill would fetch eighty bucks eventually Joey graduated from drunk driver too small time drug dealer. He started out buying prescriptions on the street. So I could get a script lowered had tens say there's ninety them. On the street. That's not hundred dollars. If I can bought for five hundred dollars. I make four hundred dollars or I can make my money back and then make you know, forty repeals forty free pills. Joey wasn't getting rich as a drug dealer. He was getting by basically supporting his own addiction when he was in his mid twenties. Joey started getting his pain pills directly from doctor. It was lower tab at the time which is an opioid, and he was also getting muscle relaxers actually do have back problems. I mean, I really do they did anymore. They found out that I do have something wrong with my my spine like I have Bolton disk and all that in six months, the doctor quadrupled his prescription from forty five pills a month to one hundred eighty I wasn't in that much pain. You know, no way. Joey wasn't the only one in town getting more pain pills than he needed? That I couldn't sell anything because everybody had something like I was one of the doctor you're going to the doctor and one of the doctor. We don't need help each other. Joey's Dr eventually did get shut down by law enforcement, Joey is transferred to a new doctor. We'll a first time. I saw the doctor the guy looks at me. And he's like, I'm not rotten your muscle relaxer. Okay. He's like it's habit forming. I looked at him. Like the most puzzling way. I'm like you write me a hundred and eighty lower tabs, but you're not going to rob me the muscle relaxer because it's habit forming like. Something doesn't sound like you know, what I mean? Like, obviously lower tabs have it for me. We know this by now, it's two thousand ten at that time like we know it's habit forming, but you're not gonna rot me the most relaxing. Okay. I got news worry, Mike. My money was coming from the Lord. I have not the not the Muslim relaxer. Anyway, Joey use drugs and sold on the side for years, even as people he knew started Odeon and dying. He remembers this one guy a friend of his wife's we'd just hung out with him would drop them off at his friend's house. We left and then the next morning, she got a phone call. And he died he was like twenty twenty one clock right around my age had just had one baby and had another one on the way. What was that like a major warning to or did it just seem like interesting like regular day as satisfied is? And like it makes you sound cold hearted in a way. But like it was just it got so regular there for a while. It's like. Are. So did you continue to do Oxycontin after that? We did an Oxy. That morning before we went to his funeral. Maintaining an addiction takes work a lot of planning and hustling there were days when Joey couldn't get any pills like when he'd burned through his monthly supply early or when his prescription was stolen. How many towns while went dope? Sick because I have had any drugs more times than I could ever tell you. And this is what happens when your body goes into withdrawal. I'll just list some of the symptoms muscle pain diarrhea nausea, vomiting, sweating, anxiety, insomnia. I talked to one woman who detox in jail thousands of women to a pod one bathroom, no privacy. She couldn't leave the toilet. You get the idea. It's hell I'm like the first time that the that Ivy talks. There's two weeks mile off. I don't even remember. I mean, it's just that bad like. All I remember is just sleeping. That's it. That's all. That's all. I can do is sleep. And I would like the worst the worst stomach pains you could ever imagine like the worst stomach flu you could ever get in the world. In a way, Joey was one of the lucky ones, he managed to get sober and get away, but a lot of his friends and acquaintances weren't so lucky just looking back through like a yearbook and seeing how many people that I went to school with you know. You know, it's not been that long ago. I mean, not really how many people are dead. From drug overdose. In wise county. Nearly everyone has lost someone or know someone who's lost someone to drugs. It is one of the highest drug overdose death rates in the state. What happened in wise to Joyce classmates into Joey happened to a lot of people in small towns and cities across the country. The pain pills that flooded these places are harder to get now. But they're trail of devastation is still visible across the country. People who got addicted to pain pills have turned to other drugs like heroin, Fenton hill or methamphetamine every person. I talked to unwise had a story about drugs. I heard about it from nurse practitioners. We see the patients when they come in. Here. We see the ones that come in looking like skeletons, and they've had the may and you can see the skin or we see their children that are now being raised by great grandparents, not just grandparents, but great grandparents, and we see that. And we see the tremendous burden that it's putting on the society here. I heard about it from business owners who can't hang onto their workers. We go through me in higher or other people show up for a couple of days. Okay. And then they show up under the influence, and and we'd have to send them home. Symptom. It was three or four day. I heard about it from lawyers who represent children in foster care. The saddest thing I've seen is a mother losing her kids because she's on drugs. Because they will scream and cry and they will tell you. I'll do anything to get my kids back, but they won't most of the time. I'd say like ninety percent of the time. They will not get their kids back. Because they can't stop drugs. It breaks your heart. He wasn't always this way. That's next after the break. In politics. People often tell you not to get lost in the weeds. But the weeds by vox is a podcast for people who love the weeds because that's where politics becomes policy the stuff that shapes your life and the lives of the people you care about each week. Matthew yglesias is joined by a rotating cast of leading vox voices to dig into the weeds on important issues. We think you're gonna love the show. And if you're already subscribed, you should check out some of their recent episodes. So what are you waiting for listen and subscribe to FOX's the weeds for free on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening. Why's county is rural made up of many small towns of a few thousand people. It's a beautiful place with roads that wind through mountains thick with trees overlooks with views for miles rundown, but charming main streets neat little homes with rocking chairs out front. Wise county is almost entirely white. It's always been poor about twenty percent of people live below the poverty line people. Here tend to be sicker and die younger than people in northern Virginia. Many families have lived in the same towns for generations. There's a lot of pride in that. And that pride is on display every weekend of every summer for the past fifty five years when community actors put on a play for hundreds of people. Performed on an outdoor stage with a creek running through it. You can hear the sounds of wind and distant thunder, bats are flying overhead. The place called trail the lonesome pine, it's the region's origin story set to music. Some of the actors have been performing in it for the past ten even twenty years. The play is based on the historical novel of the same name. Sponde- multiple movies, including nineteen thirty six version. Starring Henry Fonda. It tells the story of how coal was discovered in the Appalachian mountains. Koa red yester- fortune to be having these nouns gotta keep looking you ever seen any Kodak yet here for? Kale birds? I can't. Where'd you? About five book, dick, no part. No, part handsome, mining engineers swoops in and mountain girl is forced to choose between the old traditional way of life and the way of the future mining spoiler alert, she chooses the mining engineer and the whole region chose mining. It completely transform the economy for the next hundred years it brought an influx of jobs and built an economy of extraction today. There's a WalMart small university a couple of hospitals and a four lane that is a highway with two lanes in each direction. It's been huge for getting around the region. The coal industry has declined. It's a sliver of what it once was. And the population is declining to still this is a place that people love that people want to save the folks that live here, very hard working very determined. If I can say anything about the people in Atlanta. They help one another see community in Noah community that I grew up in that is strong faith based rarely did we lock our doors without grandmother Eastleigh her screen door open all the time. They're quick to help. But they're also quick Dalil. It's a place that people love with some undeniable problems. I heard so many people say that the opioid crisis has touched every single family. I found that's no exaggeration. My husband lower at home. We've got a knock on the door. It was a police officer told us that our daughter was in the hospital and said, it's not good. That's gleam a Walker. She's fifty one years old. So now remember praying all the way to the hospital. God just please don't let it. Lemas daughter had been hanging out with a friend doing drugs at deadly mix of methadone and benzodiazepine which is a Saturday of when she overdosed. We got to the hospital friend of the family. She was a nurse that was on duty there. She looked at me. And she shook her head. She said gleam, she almost didn't make it. Her daughter's heart stopped twice that night. But she didn't die when I talked to gleam up her daughter. Angela was there sitting across the table nodding as her mother talked about that day. She doesn't know what it's like seeing your child laying in a hospital bed, and no one almost died. It's like I said it breaks your heart in two because you didn't raise them to be like that shortly after that overdose. Angela managed to get sober on her own. That's not a good loft to live at all. I just wanted to different lawf-. So I I mean, I had to do something for myself and us aside thing, you know, a lot of people don't have the strength to do that. Angela was pregnant with her first child when I talked to her. She was doing well living with her fiance and excited about motherhood, but gleaming was still getting over the death of her brother who did several years ago and glee miss son. Angela's brother is in and out of jail on drug charges. He happened to be in jail when I talked to them. I asked him about that. Honestly, I'll tell you what I told my son think it's a good thing. If jail is what it takes to make you open your eyes and make you see what you're doing a said, then it's good. Thank my son might be said to hear me say that. But as a mother, it's it's a relief to know he somewhere where he's not long get drugs overdose. And die. I don't wanna see him. Did luck dimmer brother? Just don't want to see happen. And whatever it takes to change him. A want him to change? Gleam was born and raised in this area. She's watched it transform around her when I was growing up. It was you know, you see people drinking every once in a while or you seem build a bonfire and the guys will gather round, and they would drink or sometimes she would hear of somebody smoking pot. I do not know why changed so drastically over the years it just same one person. Right after the other started getting addicted escalate talking, she's reflecting asking herself and her daughter, what happened here something I was thinking about back when the coal business was going really well here there wasn't as much diction. Here. The coal mines workers that had been injured started going to the doctor right around the time. I think it was in the late nineties early two thousands. They started going to the doctor if they had issues the doctors were readily available to prescribe the Oxycontin, they want. To push it on everybody. So they did that. But that's where it all started around. Here was in the coal moans. Hey, you know, this you want to try to help you out stuff like that. Where the coal business has gone down so much because the Konami, you know, I mean that was a big part of our economy. Here is seems like it's it's gotten worse since then I mean, it seems really bad since nobody has jobs like the had before. Let me just pause him in it and say experts still debate the exact causes of drug epidemic. There are some factors that definitely play a role the economy, for example, as gleam appoints out loss of major industry loss of jobs. Those things put a community at risk of experiencing drug epidemic. That was true back in the eighties with crack, and it's true today with opioids, but the most important factor in this crisis. A lot of experts say is the sudden supply prescription painkillers as Angela points out and places like wise, the market was flooded. And that created a lot of addiction Christopher room is a professor of public policy and economics at the university of Virginia. If we haven't flooded the country with these very strong opioids, and you know, most of these opioids are are chemically almost identical to heroin, or in some cases, they're stronger if we hadn't put those out in the market, we wouldn't have seen these. Death. So that wouldn't have been that these were people trying to kill themselves. It was they were at risk. And when we spread this this risky factor. The drugs, they're the ones who suffered the most. There are other factors that seem to be important like the concentration of physical labor intensive jobs that can lead to injury pain also economic incentives for drug dealing immigration areas with more immigrants have fewer drug overdose deaths though, it's unclear why demographics access to healthcare and racial disparities in prescribing patterns, for example, African Americans and Latinos are more likely to report experiencing severe pain most of the time than whites. But African Americans Latinos are less likely to receive any pain medication at all. When they do. It's at lower doses. Research suggests that white people are more likely to be believed when they're in pain. They're more likely to be prescribed opioids for migraines in. Ars for example, and for lower back pain. For many years throughout the early and mid two thousands. It was largely white people dying from opioid overdoses, but since two thousand fourteen the rate of African Americans dying from opioid overdoses has skyrocketed increasing at a rate much faster than that of whites in some cities, like Washington DC more than eighty percent of people who Odeon die from opioids are black. So these are the factors that put a community at risk of drug epidemic. And once it hits, it's really hard to stop. Chatting about what's going on one day. When I was in wise county, I stopped by a food city grocery store, there were a couple of volunteers standing next to a rack of potted plants did put out a big banner that said got drums. Four this'll be the poor fullback that we've taken today, we are getting some pain medicines into been zoysia opiates. So so we're getting a little bit everything, and we most we don't people came by all morning dropping off painkillers and other drugs from their medicine cabinets. Leftover from relatives who died or from past surgeries the volunteers filled for garbage bags that morning. But even if you could collect every prescription that's been written here. The addiction at started with those pills wouldn't go away. As sources for pain pills. Dry up people move on to other drugs opiates like heroin feno. And in some towns stimulants like math. That's what happened to Joey. He says the meth high is different high. But it is a high and math is cheap and abundant. It's crazy. 'cause I said I'll never do that. Never. But like I could tell it was literally changing the person that I was like, I'm pretty soft hearted person. I was booking starting to get angry. At should I shouldn't get angry at you know, like that was another reason I was like, okay, look either you can stay here and keep doing shit that you're doing or you can finally really try and get out of it. That's. To get out of that world to break his addiction. He had to leave wise on knew that if I didn't do something. I was going to end up back in trouble with the police or that the turning point came slowly. Then all at once when Joey was thirty three years old. It was probably a good three or four months of just like being depressed. And like just hating myself for the most part to realize that. Okay. I really need to get my shit like something has to change. So one day in the spring of twenty seventeen Joey moved in with his mom about an hour and twenty minutes away from his hometown across the state line in Tennessee. He got a job at a cellphone store. Weaned himself off a pain medicine quit using meth. It is by far the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Absolutely hardest thing I've ever done for Joey drugs are never far from his mind. Even as he takes a sip from a drink with a plastic straw can see cut straw land on the ground and other people would just walk past it thing. Oh, it's just trash on the ground. I see like see like a cut up straw like this much of a straw cut somewhere. I know that that is not been per. I know exactly what that's forward as he walks through the world. Joey sees it differently that cuts straw. It's for snorting crushed up pills. Driving by Wal-Mart reminds him of meth you can buy Sudafed there. You know what? I mean. Like, that's how you it's. It's just how you bring keeps working. But. Other than that like. You just had to have this mindset like, and it's so true. You have to distance yourself from the people you're around that distance was working by the summer of twenty seventeen his life was slowly getting better yet, a new girlfriend. He saved up in bought a car. That's the craziest thing. People hate going to the store whatever or hate going out and doing this or that. But like when you've not had a car and you walked for year. Miles and miles and miles. It is fabulous to be able to walk down to my car. Getting my car and drive down the road and Bob cigarettes. Come back to the house like love it. It's denied rely on anybody to worry about any getting here. They're just go do it. And it's it's great really is. That summer in Johnson city, Joey was hopeful. But he was also worried that sobriety wouldn't last that he'd relapse. I don't want to go back to us county. You know? I hope that never have to go back over there for anything be honest, because I know them gonna run into somebody that I know, and if I'm by myself, and I've got money my pocket like I'm still at that stage where. Almost scares me to have a job and know that I have regular money coming in because I'm so used to spending all that money out. And like, that's what scares me. I'm afraid one day. Something's going to happen. And I'm not gonna be able to say, no. And it scares the shit. I mean, it really does. Recovery can be messy for most people. It takes multiple tries to get off drugs. And some people never do next episode for here. What happened when Joey did go back to wise, and we'll hear what happened to just Schuler the woman who forged checks to Peter drug habit. I feel awful for the things. I'd done was not raised that way on this. Not who I am. But that's who I was while on the drugs. And I mean, they took a hold appoved, Joey if you don't chill out, and you don't get the mail. You're going to you're going to be killed or you want to. How is that received? I know it. So we do. That's coming up from the next uncertain. Our? That's it. But this episode think so much for listening. We did a whole story last season about the roots of the opioid crisis. The regulations that brought Oxycontin to market in a way that downplayed the dangers of addiction and death. If you haven't heard it already, you should check it out. It's called the sentence that helped set off the opioid crisis. This episode of the uncertain. Our was reported by Caitlyn ash the uncertain. Our is produced by me, Chrissy Clark and Caitlyn Nash along with associate producer, Peter. Valentine rosen. Production assistant, any Reese and digital producer, Tony Wagner. Then Hess coat is our video producer mixing and sound design by Jake Gorski, additional production help from Lyra Smith. Our podcast is edited by Kathryn winter sitar Nevis is the executive director of demand at marketplace. Deborah Clark is the senior vice president and general manager special things to Nancy for golly, Tommy Andres, and Betsy Streisand, you can see photos of wise on our website, marketplace dot org or on Instagram and Facebook, we also produced a series of videos. Introducing you to wise and the people who live there. They're really beautiful, and you should definitely check them out on our YouTube channel where marketplace APM on all those platforms. In certain hours. Supported by the Annie E, Casey foundation, dedicated to creating a brighter future for the nations. Children more at eighty c F dot org.

Joey Joey Wise county heroin Tennessee Jessica Schuler drug overdose Virginia Joey Ballard oxycodone wise county Virginia painkillers Johnson city North Carolina giants Angela WalMart Oxy Jessica Ray Joyce Knoxville
24. Robert Caro

Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend

1:04:12 hr | 1 year ago

24. Robert Caro

"I love coffee, but I have to tell you. I need something to have with me coffee. I really do. And it can't just be anything. You know? I'm not one of those guys. It's like whatever it can be a Donut. It can be this and be that. No. I need the perfect food. What is that? It's got to be a food. That's comes in segments and has various layers and textures and the only one that meets the Bill that Twix bar next time, you're on a coffee break. Grab a Twix bar. It's perfect with coffee dip, dunk or stir. And it makes your afternoon Java were exciting and peppy. So listen, you whether you like the left side of the Twix bar, which has caramel and a crunchy cookie with chocolate or you like the right side of the Twix bar, which has caramel and crispy cookie and chocolate. That's your decision far be it from me to accuse anyone of favoring one side of the Twix over another. I know the tricks goes well with coffee, I will eat it Twix anytime you put it in front of my faith. I will shove it in there. Yeah. It's not very lady. Like, you can also drop your bar into the cough. And it will melt into the coffee and make your coffee tastes, really, good coffee. Twix have it with your coffee today? Do it quickly. I say quickly. I can never find the right vacation home. It's a problem. That's why I always ended up just driving to a beach and just sleeping on. And the cops are like moved along move along stereotypical Irish Cup from the thirties moved along their son. But it's tough. You know, you get lost online trying to find that perfect vacation spot you need Virgo. Do the hard work for you. They match up to the perfect place to stay every time. No more sleeping on the beach getting moved along by stereotypical Irish caught from the thirties from condos cabins places with yards grills hot tubs. They have it. All search B R B O in the app store to download the Virgo app today. Put a stop to frustrating vacation searches is this house haunted? What's going on in that yard is that really a pool or just a puddle? Let Virgo find a home that matches. You virgo? Hi, my name is Robert Caro. Really cautiously optimistic about being Conon O'Brien's friend. Back to school. Walkin lose. Aachen? Hello there and welcome to Conan O'Brien needs friend. This is the show where I very desperately use the podcast format to make people be friendly to me for an hour at a time. Then they usually get away. I'm joined by my assistant, sonum assessing your mind assistant in real life. Aren't you? I am your assistant in real life. Do feel like he was just me. Why do you always ask me these questions? Yes. I assist you. I'm the only assist you have things happen. And they happen because I assist you. Okay. Take it easy. All the time shouting into a very sensitive. Sorry after driving right now. I apologize for Sonos shriek. It's always like I'm here with my sister sodas Saux that are you to not. And then there's no got a beard. I do for you. I didn't get too mad. Yes. That girlie. That's even real name. How are you? Could see you good to see you. Oh, come on a little enthusiasm. I haven't gone after yet. Well, I feel like you're you're about to know I've got my guard up. The only I've never seen. It's impressive. I've never seen headphones that are tweed before his tweet headphones. Pretty funny score one for Conan at is pretty I'll give you that. That's pretty good son. I bet you'd be on your best behavior today. You know, what you'd think I would be on my best behavior because this is a very very very special episode of Conan O'Brien needs a friend. I've been pursuing my next guest for years years and years and years sounds threatening the New York Times referred to this man as the white whale to my hab, which means he'll end up killing me. He is considered by many many people to be one of the greatest biographers of all time for his crime breaking work on Robert Moses and his many books on Lyndon Johnson. Well, the impossible is happened. He is here sitting right across from me. He can't escape let gentlemen. Mr. our Carol. You know, the story that I've been trying to hunt you down to get an interview with you for years, and I don't think you even knew that. No, my publisher arranges things, and I never even heard your publisher apparently really hates my guts. And probably for good reason. But I'm just going to back up here. I'm sure I have many listeners who are very familiar with your work. And I'm sure I also have many listeners who were very young. Who haven't read your work aren't familiar with your work, and I want to stop for just second and say for God's sake. Do yourself a favor. Sometimes I think people freeze up when they hear historical biography historic work. They think this is going to be dry. This is going to be homework, and what Robert Carro has done is. He has figured out a way to write history in a way where you read it, and you feel like you're reading a gripping novel all of it's true. He's a stickler for the facts. But it's so well written that your heart is in your mouth at times when you're reading these accounts you've written about a guy named Robert Moses who intrigue. D'you because you found out that he was probably the most powerful man in the history of New York, but he had never been elected to anything. Nobody really knew how he had this power. But this is the man that if you are in New York City, you cannot probably walk fifteen feet without running into something that Robert Caro built what Robert Carroll Bill, Robert. I'm sorry. What you can tell research. I it was you that Bill. But I'm sorry. Robert Moses little he builds everything you can imagine in New York City, he built six hundred twenty seven miles of expressways imports. If you're driving on a highway in or around New York City, or it's 'burbs you're driving on a road built by one man. Robert, Moses, if you're on a modern bridge, Detroit the Verizon or the triborough etcetera, you're driving on a bridge. He built urine oppo if you're an apart or an apart- that he either created or reshape, you know, he built so much in New York that when he was with a New York City public housing authority. He didn't even include what he had done there in his resume. But in fact, he built apartments for one hundred forty eight thousand people so that city is shaped by this one man who has you say was never elected to anything that is a book called the powerbroker. This book is absolutely riveting beautifully told. And what I'm doing right now is I'm going back. And I'm listening to the audio book. Have you ever listened to the audio book of any of your actually have you know, what they got someone very good to understand? He's very good. And so I have here in Los Angeles. You have to drive everywhere. It takes forever. And I put on the power broker a few weeks ago. I listened to it when I'm driving around. And it reminds me how. Well, the book is written. How great the story is. And I also know that it will never run out. I can I think I can listen to this for twenty years. Really long antastic early have a very good reader with a little British accent. You hear my accent? Yes. So I said to my agent ones. Can I read this one? And she said, then the price will go down. Got a pretty thick New York accent. So they didn't want you reading it. So yeah, you also you have just one world acclaim for your writings about Lyndon Johnson starting with the first book path to power again. I know I sound like a schoolteacher. But I would implore people who are listening go out and get this book or get it on your kindle or get the book on tape. Get the power broker and get started and listened to the story of this young guy Lyndon Johnson. And it's absolutely it will floor you because what you've managed to do is. Right. As I said, you you write history in a way that puts you there you really feel like I understand this kid Lyndon Johnson. I understand what it's like to live in the hill country in Texas at that time, you have a lot of empathy for these people that you write about. We talked a little bit about that last night. But your sense of place in order to write about Lyndon Johnson. You moved you decided I can't write about this guy unless I moved to the hill country in Texas and live there and your wife who's with us today. I know who's also does the research, and is such a powerful force in your creative life. She said, okay. Let's do it. She didn't quite say that she said why can't you do a biography of Napoleon? That of course, the nine said sure, that'd be nice. Pick. Peta historic figure who lived mostly in the south of France and ate a lot of delicious pastry. To really understand him. Robert Caroline had to eat all those pays he lived in a castle, and I need to live in a cast. But you're right about someone who lived in the hill country, and you didn't set out to go into this kind of detail. But one of the things that just was so remarkable in that first book is that you went back to the hill country. And you wanted to really understand how hard it was for people to live. This was there was there was no electricity in the hill country. When Lyndon Johnson was born and grew up. He was the one that brought the electricity. There you spend a lot of time really figuring out what a day was like for someone who lived, and it was really it's really the story of poverty if and only the loneliness out, there was something that I couldn't understand. 'cause I grew up in New York City Lyndon Johnson lived out on the Johnson ranch, which is really in the middle of nowhere one corner. That ranch came down to what they call. The Austin Fredericks were highway. But it was an unpaved rutted road between Orson Fredericks and Linden. Johnson's little brother used to tell me how he and Linden would go down and sit at the co on the corner of that fence closest to the road in the hope that one new Royd or carriage, come by have one new person to talk to. I couldn't even understand that loneliness or as you say the poverty. Yeah. There was no cash there. You could get a dawn for does. If you sold a dozen eggs, but you had to sell them in a place called marble falls, which is twenty three miles from Johnson city. So a friend of Linden Johnson's gardening and choir told me how every Saturday market. He'd ROY those twenty three miles carrying dozen eggs box in front of him holding the box in both hands. So that they wouldn't break. I I'm not understanding these people, and I'm not understanding Lyndon Johnson who just going to have to move there and trying to learn what it was like to live there. Hugh move there with China and you upright yourself from New York, you're living in the hill country, one of the effects this had because you live there, and you stayed there is that the people started to get to know you event. And then you went from being that guy from New York with the glasses asking a lot of questions about Lyndon. Johnson you transform over time into oh, there's Bob Bob Carroll. I know him or there's because the women there were a lot of widows in the hill country. They wouldn't really be Frank. You know, talk to me about their personal laws what it was like without electricity. I we had three fig preserve three fig trees on our property so Arnold. How to make fig preserves and she'd go first with the gift of fig preserves which and suddenly people got friendly them. I as I continued to make fig preserves and should market those. Okay. Clearly, not a fan. Okay. But not up to your standards of fake preserves. There's a scene in the book in the first book that you're on Lyndon Johnson where the pivotal point his life was his father. He looked up to his father idolizes, father Lyndon Johnson, allies father, and then like so many sort of almost Greek tragedies. His father makes a mistake. His father invest in this ranch. The the soil wasn't good in the ranch, and suddenly they're broke. And one of the things you were able to do when you got out. There is actually see why that ranch failed. And it's a great story will then Attila do. So say Lyndon Johnson idolize his father, he was a legislator in the Texas legislature. And he passed a lot of progressive legislation and Linden such the happiest days of my life. Where we're not would go out campaigning from form to form. My father see how everyone respected him and all then his father may as you just set. One mistake to Johnson ranch with cover what we came to Johnson ranch. We covered with beautiful grass. It's so beautiful when you drive out there tonight. So one of Linden's cousins is favorite cousin aver said, well, I want I want to show you something about Sam Johnson. And what it means to make a mistake. So she drove me to a hill at the edge of the ranch and get out of the car got out of the car. And she said no kneel down I'm knelt down. She said now stick your fingers into the soil, this soil covered with beautiful graphs, and you. Stuck your fingers, and you couldn't even get is the whole thing because there was so little grass there that look beautiful. But if you try to make a living from either planned cotton, then the grass washed way graze cattle or the Cadillac down, and you couldn't do anything with it. So in an instant as you just put it they were broke from the about the age of thirteen before the became the laughing stock of town, and they lived in a little house in Johnson city that every month Linden was afraid the Bank was gonna take away. And they often didn't even have food in the house because the mother was also orphan sick. So neighbors had a burn covered dishes there and his feelings toward his father changed to one of absolute conflict the rest of his boyhood. Yeah. There's a great senior talk about in the book with that. You got out of Linden Johnson's brother where the father and Linden are fighting bitterly at the table and the father. Demeaning Linden, saying, you're not college material. You're not you're not college. Material. You're going to be failure and Linden. Snaps. Back would you? You're just a bus inspector. And you read that exchange, and it's like you're reading classic play. It's willy Loman. It's death of a salesman. It's just it hits you right in the gut. This terrible disappointment that the father that the sun has for the father, and the resentment the father has for the sun that he may be gets another chance that's terrific way of summing. And that's really what happened. You know? There's another thing that just talking to anyone out there listening who might think haven't read these books, but why Lyndon Johnson what's the significance of Lyndon Johnson? I know he was a president. I know he was present during Vietnam, but what what's the real significance? They're one of the things that stands out in one of your book one of your books. Master of the Senate is that it up until in Johnson. The Senate didn't. Function. And then he becomes he comes the majority leader. And then when he's done being Jordan leader, he becomes the vice president mentioned the president. But the minute he stops that job. It has never really worked since what is it that Lyndon Johnson had that enabled him to make the Senate work that no one else has been able to crack in the history of our country. That's the nature political genius to me, if you're interested, you're interested in and how government works you're looking at a genius. He comes to be majority leader Johnson comes in. He wants to pay a civil rights legislation in voting rights legislation and you watch him vote by vote turn that Senate around. And you really say could anyone else have done this at sometimes, I do we wouldn't have that voting rights legislation today, if Lyndon Johnson hadn't had this genius for it. Then when John Kennedy is assassinated, and he's proposed this wonderful, civil rights spill in a wonderful speech. But that Bill was going nowhere. It was. Absolutely, right. The south was not gonna they were not gonna let that happen. No. It wasn't going to happen. So four days after Johnson becomes president. He has to give us I address to congress joint session of congress. He's not. Even in the Oval Office. He's still in his private home downstairs in the kitchen table three or four of his speechwriters gathered around trying right to speech, and he comes down after a while and ask how they're doing. And they say, well, the only thing we can reaon is don't make civil rights of priority. You do that you're going to tag Anais, these southern committee chairman, they going to do to you what they did to Kennedy, and you're gonna stop your whole legislative programme Johnson's. And they say, you know, it's a noble cause, but it's a lost court. Don't fight for it. And you know, Johnson says he says what the hell is the presidency for them and speech, he says to the all sitting in front of the whole all the southern city. And he says our first priority is going to pay us, Jack Kennedy, civil rights spill, and you watch do that. And you say I say, I never knew you could do this. I never knew you could do that. If it's poor judge of real genius. Yeah. Obviously, we have leaders that can inspire you mentioned Kennedy. And we have you know, leaders like Obama, they can inspire, and then there's just there's the workings the gears and the levers of government that no one seems to be able to figure out anymore and Lyndon Johnson may have been the last person who saw how it all worked you. Call him. Will you found out that he was the best vote counter? He could figure out who was with him. Who is not. With him, and he could keep a tally in his head at all times. And he made that system. Unlike anyone else? Yes, you know, port of was people were afraid of him, and he made them afraid of him. And he was also Lyndon Johnson was six four, and he all these famous pictures of bunch of books, but they're everywhere of him getting when he wanted to talk you into something he today, we have is this concept of personal space. There's a whole movement about personal space, and you don't invade someone's personal space, and he would get chest to chest with people and lean over them and put his finger into there. And you look at it now. And you think well that there's lawsuits left and right here. Man, suing Lyndon Johnson. It looks like he's physically assaulting but has just leaning in and covering them. Like a blanket. The thought of. But that's certainly certainly the case your victim of your own success. Which is you have so enthralled people with these books about Lyndon Johnson. And now people are waiting for this installment that I think takes us from sixty four to I'm guessing his death since nineteen Seventy-three does he die and people want that book. And when is that book coming, and you've made it clear that there's a lot of research, you need to do to really write this, including you believe you need to go to Vietnam. And and spend some time there to understand that war and see it from the enemies perspective. Is that right and see for perspective of American boys? Who for the first time how to fight in John Gould with that was like, yeah. And we dropped more bombs on Viet nam than we dropped on Germany and were in World War Two. Yeah. What you're talk. About doing is going there and really living. It seeing it from that perspective. And when you do something like that. I'm assuming is gonna go with you on this one too. Well, unless she's wants to go to power. There were peace talks in Paris. You go and you could work on. Say over Paris, and for the Parisian, Parisian perspective on Paris, and you can do that. And I host stay at the hotel, George sank. That'd be maybe that's where Kissenger stayed and. You can be in the jungle. TV out there. These days hard to know what to watch. There is a show. That sounds interesting. It's based on the real life experiences. If comedian Rami Yussef funny guy, you know, Rami, I do know he's he's really funny seen this show. It's it's great. Yeah. It's it's basically a show that takes into the world of first generation American Muslim on a spiritual journey into his very politically divided New Jersey neighborhood. It sounds cool. Clearly, just listening to me, you know, I don't know this world, and I want to know more about it. So Romney takes you into this world. And you see the culture clashes you see generational clashes between Egyptian community that is probably more formalized in the millennial generation. I don't know if we're trying to all get together and become interconnected one onto it to a really funny show. This series features postmodern meditations on love work identity through the eyes of a modern day, Muslim American lineal. And his family is a show to check aperture to catch who all new original comedy series. Rami R A M Y, all episodes. Now, streaming only on Hulu. So I had a birthday recently. I had a birthday just a couple of days ago. And you know, what it made me realize in anything can happen. It's true. I'm getting older hurtling towards the grave some would say awful weight and look at that. Yeah. Well, that's just what my own kids said as I blew out the candles on my cake. Both my kids said hurtling towards the grave. And then my wife shouted never to return. That's the kind of birthdays, I have. I do think about that. And you can happen in life. And you know, what that got me thinking about on my birthday is I bought the candles state farm agents state firm agents are out there, and they know that in life anything can happen. You know, anything good things bad things saying yes to a proposal and having to buy that ring. I mean, sorry not having to getting to. You know, a tree falls on your head. Who knows? So whatever happens when it comes to home and auto insurance. This is thought I've had recently stayed firm is here to help. I swear to God state farm. I mean, if I could get a tattoo that said anything on it. It might say state firm is here to help. You know, there's ups and downs in life, everything going kooky. And I'll do you do and they've got nineteen thousand agents think about that nineteen thousand agents in neighborhoods across the US nineteen thousand state farm agents. You know, throw a tennis ball, you'll hit six of them. Contact agent today. Because no matter what neighborhood you're from or whatever stage of life you're in. You might be in my stage hurling towards the tomb state farm agents are here to help life. Go right. Talk to an agent today at one eight hundred state farm. Yeah. State farm hit help life. Go right. It's interesting to me. It's fascinating to me in how much of your work. You've had to kind of be a detective and not even kind of be a detective you've had to be a detective you've had to track people down. There is a great part in this new book working. There's this myth that Lyndon Johnson when he was in high school and college was very popular and people just are there. They sound like broken records. And they're just saying. Oh, yeah. I'll good old Linden go Linden. But you suspect there might be more of the story than that. And you keep asking people keep saying there's this one guy who really knew at Vernon Whiteside. Vernon Whiteside says Vernon Whiteside. They say if you could get to Vernon Whiteside boy hit tell you some stories and a lot of people just told you, but that's too bad because he's dead. Yes. Everyone thought he was that because he had this ranch, and he was gone, but I'm trying interview all the classmates, anyway, they're all saying I heard over and over again ole what side he days. Lead. Day date. Yeah. That's what I was. That's how I was trying. You're from now. Let me take on the, but people convince you he's getting now to me if I was a thank God, I'm not a reporter or a biographer. I would've said well, he's dead. So nothing we can do about that. Let's move on. So one day. I was calling tried interview. Every one of his classmates who were still alive, and I called this guy and then was Howard's Richards. And I said it wanted to drive down and see him. He lived Nagelsen. And he said, well, I don't know the inside of some of these stores with this one guy who did old Vernon Whiteside. And I said, yeah. But oh what side he days? Making fun of him. And he said hell, no, he ain't date. He was here. Visiting me yesterday. It turned out. They thought he was dead because he had sold his ranch Boorda mobile home and taking his wife for fifteen months tour all the way up to Alaska of the entire United States. And I said, well, we're we're going he said, well, you know, they were going to have a permanent mobile home some place in Florida. He said the only thing I remember was north of Miami unit had beach in its nail. I so I remember today you have a national telephone directory on your computer joined anybody, then you live every little town had its own phone book. So I the new York Public Library. You still have hundreds and hundreds of these little phone books. And I remember I and I sitting on the floor and this little room where they were looking at every town that had beach in its name north of Florida, which has to be hundreds of them is an awful lot of them. And we just divided them up and started calling and interestingly if I started at the other end of my list, I wouldn't have found them because I've suddenly was talking someone in Harlem beach. I was calling the mobile home places. And she said, oh, yes. The white sides pulled in here a couple of hours ago. So if I called a couple of hours sooner I wouldn't have found them. I didn't wanna give them a chance to say no to me that he wouldn't talk to me. So I jumped on a plane and went there and knocked on the door. And this big gentleman as I recall in this sure, you know, came to you are not set on Bob Kiram riding by feeling Johnson. They said, oh, then you want to know about the stolen elections college. He said come on in. And he just dream come true about the time. He stolen election college. Come on. Gold. I just sat there, and he filled in old and confirmed all the stories, but there was one other thing that I thought you were going to mention I know, you know, about this. So I I'm calling this one woman, and she says, I don't know why you keep asking these questions to me, Mr. Carro or miss decay Rio as they it's all there in black and white us, it all there in black and white where she said in a yearbook, it's all or what we what we called him about the stolen elections that we call them bowl Johnson. And I'll I'll I'll use the word. His name was bull. Johnson for bullshit thought. He was full of it. Yeah. It was his nickname college Johnson. The man who later became coined the cut ability could believe him on the nam. So I should what pages are you talking about? And she got her yearbook and she named five pages. So I've been through that yearbook several times that of seeing this, and I looked and those pages were gone, and then you could see someone had cut him out. A, you know at the very spine of the book to something very sharp, like a razor blade, and I said boy, someone cut I looked I found several other copies of the yearbook pages were missing I finally found one that the pages were in and all the stock. You was there. And I remember thinking, what am I dealing with here? You know, I'm dealing with the union being who at the age of twenty one was so concerned about his reputation. You could say his place to come in history that he has cut out of hundreds of copies of his college ear book pages that were derogatory making fun of them more than fun chronically things that he did that made them not trust them. Yeah. And also who steals a college election. I mean that is that tells you so much about Lyndon Johnson. And just that sentence I stole an election in college. And the reason that he did it tells a lot about Lyndon Johnson because. Does he had this as he laid out in the center for what gives you power into just saying because he learned early if you really need to win election, and it's crucial. You win an election. You do what you have to do. And you you talk about this in in one of your books. He has a chance to run for Senate and he realizes I have just got to win. And it's going to be a very very close election, but he doesn't take any chances. And it was always always rumor that he had stolen it. But there was no proof. And people said you're never gonna find proof because this is a guy that never put anything in writing and never gonna find it. You're never gonna find the proof. And this is the part where if you know, if if you're listening, and you are a fan of the show breaking bad. This is the level of drama. We're talking about you tracked down. There's a legendary guys is Louis solace. Louis solace. This legendary almost some people just call him Indio, which made me think of this show breaking bad. But he's this character that wears a. A gun on his hip and the the barrel so long it goes down to his nee, and he's a big tough guy and people said, well, no, he's gone. You'll never find him. He was rumored to be the one who probably helped steal the election. You found him you found him he was alive. And when you found him, he was no longer, the giant, you know, imposing guy named Indio whose mysterious you found it very different guy because much later in life took long-term 'cause he killed them in barroom brawl and Durango, but we've all. Mr. That's how I had to get into television. He was doubted Mexico someplace people kept telling me he was alive. But they don't know where he was he they used to say Lewis moves around a lot. Let me people ask why my books take one. Let me tell you Choi devoid, a Mexican who moves around a lot. Yes. That's not a matter of hours. Right. Right. Right. But you kill a man and Durango you move around. But I finally found he was actually back in Texas. He was living in a mobile home in the backyard of his daughter grace in Houston. So I again, I'm not going give them a chance to say. No, you won't talk to me. So I knock on the door. Very funny. I expect just like you said that we looking up at this four inch bruiser and is eighty four year old frail little old man opens the door. I'm looking down. But he wasn't just willing to talk to me. He was anxious to talk to me, and I hadn't been talking to him very long. You see he was on the stand. There was a federal investigation into this election. He's on the stand. And the judge has just said something like my memories, not based on this bed. Approximately. Now, we're going to open the ballot box that we use certified the votes you. He was the election the whole thing. Yeah. He was the key to the whole thing at that moment it such a dramatic thing. You always. When you're writing ju exaggerating a man runs into the courtroom with a piece of paper, and he says supreme court Justice, you go black has ordered this investigation stopped. And in fact, it was never reopened again. So what was Louis salis gonna say when they open this box. And they asked about the two hundred nine votes were added to Johnson's total. And he says, you know, Robert, I have written it all down, and he goes over to the large breast bound Trump in the corner. And he pulls out a ninety four page manuscript that he has written. He's king. Very bad on grammar and will. But he says he wrote this history. It's called box thirteen the name of this precinct box. They call them boxes and take it was mocks thirteen. And it says exactly how he did. So after I found out I said, you know, never going to have to write the same sentence. That all is in all these books that nobody will ever really know Johnson stolen. I said I can write the sentence. He stowed mile, and there's the person too. I mean telling you I did in writing in rally mean, right? So I know I said, well what if he dies what if he delights this? So I asked this question your heart is in your throwing I said. Would you mind if we made a copy of this full, and he's sure and we went to a neighborhood convenience store we stood there. While we copied it. I haven't my in a drawer my desk to this day. So he's the dream. He dream find not only is he going to tell you. Yes. I was there. I knew Lyndon Johnson. And I'm the one that stole the election forum, and there's a kinko's down the street. We can make up. What are the great moments? There's a moment where you're trying to understand what it was like for Lyndon Johnson when he first came to Washington DC, and you really wanted to understand it. So you retraced how he would have watched the capitol building or to his office that was near the capitol building. And you figured out what time of day he'd be walking there. And you wanted to see where the sun was. So that you could really understand that feeling that he would have an exactly what it looked like to him. You're very methodical about the facts. But it's also key for you in a novelist sense. Almost put yourself there as a human being and see and feel what it's like where you're very complimentary. I'm not sure deserve that. But you do. But it's nice that you don't think you do. But you do. But the incident you're talking about was really a fascinating example of what you can come out of doing that so Linden. John. Sohn then lived in a little hole shabby hotel down near Union Station, and he'd walk up the hill to Capitol Hill is off and then he'd walk along the whole east front of the capitol, which you know, as long as two and a half football is seven hundred fifty feet long. I found the woman who worked in the office with him. He's in whatever twenty two years old. She's also a ranch girl. He's he's a ranch boy. So the they're getting up early in the morning, and she says she's coming from the other direction. And she shows, you know, the thing that got me he'd walk up the hill. And as soon as he got in front of the capitol store running as if he was very excited with his arms flopping sort of what he would run the length of the capital every morning. She said, I when it was at first it was winter, and he was very poor. So I knew he didn't have a coat. So I thought he was running 'cause he was cold. But then she said to me, you know, gonna turn warm spring, and he was still running. So I said I wanna. Is there something that excited him that made him run every morning? So I can't tell you how many times I walked that same road. I didn't see anything that in particular. That would excite him. Then I thought of something, you know, bomb. You never did it. He did it very early in the morning because they arrange kids so they get up with the sun. He did a five thirty or six o'clock in the morning. You never done it. Then I did some our like that. And all of a sudden, I felt I understood it because what happens is this is the east front of the capitol of capital that faces the east the sun comes up. Let's say at five thirty so full force. It's level. Raise hit this entire you long mass of white marble and with its columns, and it's roic figures above and it's lit up like some gigantic blazing white movie sets. Of course, he got excited. He's coming from this land of little log. Door Gruen cabins. And all of a sudden he seeing this is where I can attain. This is the power of a sovereign state or whatever you want to say, I can have this if I succeed appear in foresee got excited. Yeah. It's cinematic all that marble glowing exciting this poor kid from the hill country excites. And it's sort of thrilling to me to see. And you've captured that you've captured that in the books, you have all these people that are always anxious for the next book whenever you finish a book, and they love it. And it's taken United ten years of courses, the nature of human beings immediately. They want the next one would have you done for me lately. Hey, carol. We're that's great. I just finished. It was twelve hundred pages. And it was beautiful. Where's the next one? And you must encounter fans and people in New York, you're you, and I are known people and you're walking around you're taking your walk in central park. You're trying to enjoy your lives and people who underwent you working right now. Getting that. People trying to guilty you into why are you right now having an ice cream? I don't think anyone tries to guilt me. But I do get an unfortunate number of times every day a week. You know, when is the next one coming tell you who else is publisher my publishers, no race me. When is when is your book going to be done deliver? I've been very lucky that we now is you're happy that you took a break to do this book working. No. He was furious. Not my my editor, you rather you read it or just wants all things. Look, we got this big book on Johnson. You gotta finish that. And you say, well, I'm working on something else right now. And that must that you're probably irritates the editor. Yes. Fun to irritate sometimes. It's hard to have a conversation with someone like you and not think about what's happening today. And I'm sure you get asked the Salat, and none of us can really know because we're living in this moment. None of us really understand this moment. But it has occurred to me that there are incredible similarities between Donald Trump and Lyndon Johnson. A need to win win at any cost both fullness. Sometimes, you know, crude behavior the list goes on and on when you know, I'm so buried in my own work right now that I'm not paying the kind of attention that. I order pay. I mean, I read the paper every day. I follow it like everyone else. What I haven't really thought of the answers about what's going on, you know, right now, I think I told you last night, I think the really unfortunate thing from or porno view, my point of view. Anyway, he's a people doubt that the facts, you know, that the scientific facts about so as I said there is no one truth. But. There are facts. And if democracy doesn't have if people don't have facts that they can make judgment on whichever way they're going to be then what is it amount to power comes from their casting votes at valid box on what basis are they casting? So I think nothing is more serious than that. But the fact is when we talk about facts factors, something that you may have heard, but you can prove it by something you find let's say in Johnson papers there it is. And that's what an informed electorate is that they've inform themselves about facts. And that's the way it's been, you know, history. So now, it's not starting to become it has become something where facts or as you put it relative. So then you say, so what is the power of the Marcus the power of informed electorate? I think James Madison said something like if people are democra-. Ac- wanna have power. They have to know. I know he didn't say this. This is what he meant. They have to have facts to base their the power of their vote on. And that seems to me not to be fading. But to have a I don't I don't actually think anything's more more are truly dangerous to the concept. If you don't have an informed electorate than what exactly is conferring power in this country. Yeah. That is chilling. And this is something we can't know right now because we're right in the middle of it. But is Trump? There's two ways you can look at one is that he is this complete one off he's an anomaly or the other possibility that this is the beginning of a new type of politician. Yes, you you wonder, you know, interns. You could say of Rome is he an aberration in lowering loin of Roman emperors, or is he is he? He the first in a different loin of Roman emperors like Khalilur a Niro, we don't know that right now. I think we're right to be scared about that. Yeah. The truth. But the fact is we don't Saudi keep sorry to use the word factor. But that's your fact, man fact, but we don't, but we really don't know the answer. And yeah, I'd like to point out to everybody that Khalil is the one who made his horse a Senator that is something that in the current administration. Sounds. Some of the appointees, and you think I'd take a horse. You almost have to spend. Robert Kennedy was big couple of his appointees. I'd say we get a horse. Maybe at the right idea. I do worry you're such a hard worker, and I left this event last night. I left it late. And then we're taping. This very early in the morning you got here before I did. I'm a whippersnapper. You got here before I did. And I thought to myself there were this guy too hard. I don't feel tired tired. You're on something. I'll find you know, it's. You know that he said never say you're torn because then you start feeling sorry for yourself. And if you start feeling sorry for yourself your finish. Wow. That's fantastic. I feel sorry for myself all the time. Of. A really good Frank for your for your publisher. Which is call your your publisher up and say, I I'm done with the working tour, and I I was going to get back to work on Lyndon Johnson. But I just had a quick inspiration. I'm going to write a I'm just gonna spend a year or two on a biography of Conan O'Brien. No. Heart attacks. He really seems like a fantastic interesting character I wanna go live in Brookline, Massachusetts and top to people who knew him and find out what kind of ruthless cab. This guy was that'd be a fun prank. And I would enjoy it. I think I have held you here long enough against your will. I reiterate to anyone listening. Do yourself a favor you can get working. It's out there right now, if you're interested in writing in the writing process, and it's terrific read. It's working by Robert Carro and do yourself whenever favor if you have not checked out Lyndon Johnson book start with with path power, and you will be enthralled or the powerbroker about Robert Moses. And it's just I think the best buy graphical writing of our time or anytime, I really believe that. But again, I'm a comedian. So I have no. This means anything I hate to you. Thank you so much for doing this. It's one of the great honors of my life. Thank you. Great to hear. There's some products that I can't talk about enough products that I believe in so much that no seriously I have to talk about them again. And again, and again until people get it and one of those fracture. Now seriously. No, you may have heard talk about fracture before. But I'm gonna go at it again. Because I don't think you get it. I really don't think you're listening to me everyone out there. Who's listening right now takes photos, and you share photos. Good for you. I took a boo food or Buddha, which on paper, look a mind. My phone. Good for you. Who cares? That's what everyone does with their photos. Not fracture. These Princeton fracture makes are made by printing directly on glass. You're writing this down directly on glass, and then your photos on glass, and you can display it. And it's on glass. Even includes a wall hangers. You can hang up on the wall and see that it's glass, they're cool. Looking. They sent us one. It was really amazing the prince or made in Gainesville Florida a place. I can't talk enough about you love Florida. I do and my favorite part floor as I said is Gainesville so spring you mentioned spring. And you Sono I did Eason. Yeah. You didn't mention it though. I didn't it wasn't spring time of refreshing and renewal fracture encourages you to refresh your walls. See what they did there? Yeah. Shelf space this spring with the moments that matter most to you by putting your photographs on glass March twentieth through April four safe twenty percents on all print sizes. I'm telling you, we got one of these fantastic. Yeah. And when I got it I said, I remember you said you'll probably want to talk about this a couple of times and say Sonal, I'm gonna wanna talk about this many many many times. Yeah. 'cause fracture put your photographs on glass, and it looks awesome. And I'll fight anybody who says that it doesn't look awesome. Because it does. And no one says that because it always looks awesome. Visit fractionally dot com slash Conan for special discount on your first factor. Order don't forget to pick by needs a friend in their one question survey. One question survey time for a survey. It's one question. Okay. Time after checkout to tell them who sent you fracture. For me dot com slash Coenen. Don't blow it fracture. They know it. It's time for another segment avoi-, smells, and I wanted to do this one especially in Sonus defense because do you remember the voicemails? We did where someone called in. And said that you were mispronouncing, Freddie, Mercury. Yes. Yeah. I remember and and talked about my hard. Geez. You have our. Geez. It's not your fault. We were raised. But jeez are very hard very hard. And do you. Remember, he said that he never mispronounces anything. Yes. I really don't. Will you play voicemail number seventeen? Not calling out Conan says Saturday Night Live center Night, Live not Saturday Night Live under night Christ. First of all I worked there. I guess this guy also worked there. I don't think he'd he did assuming if he's correcting my pronunciation of Saturday Night Live then hits. And it's just yeah. Because I worked on kind of just explain for such right because I'm in the right here. Everyone who works at SNL when they say it for real called San out live that is a thing that we do that is like we're in the club people who are outside the show who have never worked there. Call it Saturday night. Live ask anybody who's ever worked there where you work, and they'll say, I don't buy by this second. It's true. And I will tell you why few people know this. But learn Michaels who created the show is famously from Toronto. But people don't know that he was born in Louisiana and grew up there as a little child, and so he has a little bit of a southern Louisiana twang. So when Lauren called me up and asked if I'd like to be a writer there, he said would you like to come join us on Saturday Night Live? No, this is absolutely. That's absolutely true story. They'll ever. No. I swear to God. Now, you're not gonna hear this allied. Listen, if you talk to Lauren it only comes out when he says, Sarah, not live. And sometimes he says would you like to join me because you know, mostly he talks like this. And it's like that poten- whenever he says the name of the show he goes, and it's just his Louisiana roots coming out. But he says, you know, we had a really good time and Chevy. Chase was there, and it was really good starting off. And no true this then I'll tell you something else every now, and then it comes out if he offers you something to drink. He'll say like would you like wine would you like, maybe some bourbon, or would you would you like a gin and tonic or which would you like sweet? He says sweet tea kind of these are all real things. First of all that guy can get on his go. Fuck yourself. Well, it's just that guy will can you play number twenty three as well. Like this on any Renate coming. And I think unique about the very funny way you pronounce gutter gay nights. Oh my gun away. I can't quite explain Jeff listen to it. And then it would be helpful if he would lane. Starting. I. I can't do it. It's not. L win can I because this is a waste of time of Harvey might do it. Anyway, listen, how you say help me under talk when a stupid thing finish let Rene finish. Okay. Well, this is just infuriating because I did you notice that she just said Dana Carvey does it to know why Dana Carvey does it too. 'cause he's in the club. Okay. We are a small society of select individuals who worked on alive. God. And look so dumb. It is not dumb. So you can play. I don't understand girly. If I can call you. My name is a name. God. What is gory? Got a case of the Gorey's. Sounds like I have a I don't know. We can't get into it right now. Kind of rash. Gun girly on you listening. When challenged I lash out like any animal do. You do not sell out even more like a really sick animal. You can play as many as you want percent. But it doesn't change the fact that Lorne Michaels was born in louisian-, and he invented sat laugh, and I'm happy to take these questions and give you the answers. But if you guys are then going to sit around and say fake news. I'm gonna sit right here and say fake news because I'm on the web and learn Michaels was born in Toronto Ontario Canada. You don't think Lauren has the ability and the power of the most powerful people in the business. Lauren likes the myth that he came down from the north. Okay. Okay. And and he loves this whole concept that he descended from the north. It's it's very game of thrones. He came from the north. He came down to house. You know, he's hitting house Lancaster came. He came down south and winter's coming in the wall that's over Lawrence Lauren mythology health lettuce, tres not up north. I see you didn't read the books. You're going to be. Anyway, the point is this. No, no, sorry girly. We'll do it your way if even real name, but. And I wanna make this point zero. Learn doesn't want people knowing he's from Louisiana. Do the math. So I just don't understand. Why him calling it Saturday live? If this is invented the show. So you just the way you pronounce Saturday. I'm calls it. And you know what? Sorry, if you don't understand the concept of respecting your boss. You also are doing differently. You're not saying Saturday Night Live. You're saying not getting really like, I don't know. It's happening. Sing it. Exactly. The way it should be said San live, and sometimes I play around with a little bit because I'm jazz artist as you know, a big jazz fan, and I play a lot of jazz my spare time. Yeah. So okay. What's never played jazz seamy play this? I don't know what's happening, but you can't pronounce Saturday Night Live properly. That's what this is. No. And you are just guess what you just proved you can't pronounce Satloff correctly is part of the club. So I like everybody else would work. Well, you didn't pronounce Saturday Night Live sorry because you're correcting my pronunciation of sorry. I thought you weren't there. No. I was wondering what years you were. There. Did you character? That's what you did French character. Do your French character gonna do my French character your valley over do your valley? No. I'm completely sober right now those out when I'm. What the heck was just. Eating actually was that those are the times of trim care. What was that you having a massage? Do not disturb on this laptop. I should. So you're the guy that lectures us. Lakewood children about put your phone on airplane mode. That's terrific gnashing out at everybody. Right now. You are so angry that someone called you out for pronouncing a word incorrectly because you call me out all the time. And now, you're yelling at will. You're calling girly disease. I am not Ashi me when I worked at Saturday. I. Hate. To be criticized for being right? I don't like to make you guys feel bad that we're in a special cool club that causes it sign out live. Appreciate that. And that concludes another episode of commend Brian's for. You know, you work here at my pleasure. He worked here. I your dismay. You know, if I wanted you gone Gowrali, it would take maybe thirty five phone calls. And then I'm sure they'll be a few months, and then it'd be paperwork, but eventually you'd begun. You may have already started that really. This podcast works. Can I just put something else out there, and I'm not reaching pity here? I really not if you don't believe in. It is absolutely true story about Lauren being from Louisiana and it being a secret club and people in the know cone. And if you don't believe that consider the possibility that I have a neurological element. Listen, I know, and I want to make something clear that I grew up in a large family, and I developed a little bit of teasing rough and tumble style with my siblings. But I don't want it misunderstood. I, you know, Sonal, you know, that I love you think you're fantastic. You we've been friends besties for longtime the second older, brother. I never wanted. Exactly. And Gowrali, you know, that I respect you. Great job at the podcast. And I'm one day committed to learning first name, I know that that's the process that takes awhile and look into it and find out hunted down. But I don't want anyone out there listening think I really don't, you know, I don't like these people or that I want to give them a hard time. I that's my way of communicating and I just want people out there to know how much both of these people mean to me and. And though that this is all yes. What is it's owner waiting. Yeah. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the hammer is going to the thing. Go hammer is gonna fall I think there's going to there's always the thing following I was being sincere. But do you think now that we called him out that he was going to drop the hammer? But then once we said that he's going to take the high road and say, no, I was being sincere because every time he compliments you're like it sounds sincere. And then it's followed by something that it's just really just painful. No, I sincerely respect both of you. And I love the work that you do with me here on this podcast. And I think we make a great trio. And that's all there is to say on that subject. And then you'll say like the thirty percent you give this job is really valued thirty percents little high. And if it weren't for your beard, Matt we'd so. And so yeah, wow. You really thing you're not in the business of insulting yourself. It was pretty Wayne. To show us not my character. I like to build people like to build people up by playing your your on a hunt, constant search conscious search for voicemails of someone who can criticize me there are very very few. But oh, you'll find that kindly gory. Could you play number five? Coenen money. Kyle here with my friend, Alex. And we're just having a conversation about a caveman. Ten people with abnormally large goals. Dougal exact breeze men with big skull. But a picture of you come in the result. And I feel like that's something you might wanna know. You have a good day. Now. I am not offended at all because having a large cranial volt. I'm flattered and I'll say it again, a large cranial vault is a sign of intelligence. So maybe this is proof that on the most highly evolved person of our species anyone buying this. Can I get that water? I'm so thirsty. Big you, listen. I I hope he cleared some stuff up today. We just quickly recap. It's pronounced laugh and also I have a large skull. I think we're learning. Yeah. Alert skull, but is proportional to my very large body of my limbs and buries parts are quite oversized. Get out there. What can you recap the part where you complimented us? Yeah. No. I think we got it. O'brien needs a friend with sonum of session and Conan O'Brien as himself produced by me, Matt girly, executive produced by Adam Saks and Jeff Ross team. Coco and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at ear will special thanks to Jack white for the theme song incidental music by Jimmy Avinoam. Our supervising producer is Aaron blared. And the show is engine neared by will Becton you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts. And you might find your review featured on a future episode got a question for Conan. Call the team. Coco hotline at three two three four five one two eight two one and leave a message to could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend on apple podcasts. Forever. Find podcasts are downloaded. Cocoa production in association with. Welcome to getting curious with Jonathan Ben you guys, I'm so excited to introduce you to this podcast. It's been my little baby idea for a while. Now, this is going to be a really fun. Look at things that I find curious whether it's a menstrual Cup. It might be the Romanov family at might be racking could be curly the arena. I don't even know. Who knows it's going to be whatever I think is interesting. We're going to be bringing content experts. I'm going to be learning the things it's only gonna take about thirty minutes, freed expand your baby brain's with me and have a super fun times. I can't wait to see you on getting curious. Built real natch and q.

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S3-E22 Alexia Georghiou

5 Things With Angie B

39:38 min | 6 months ago

S3-E22 Alexia Georghiou

"Hello and welcome back to five things I'm your host Angie the on as always I am super thrilled that you are here and then you decided to take a little bit of time from your day to tune in. Today's episode is all about. Optimism positivity and how we can bring more of that into our lives especially when we're facing challenges. My guest today is Alex George Hugh She's the founder and principal consultant at the resilient pathway. And she is on a mission to innovate with individuals, community leaders, businesses, corporations, and government entities to create change that impacts our overall wellbeing as a community. I am so happy that she is the guest today and I am excited about the conversation we're about to have. Please make sure you. visit the website that you can read her bio, and of course, I'll make sure to include any links to anything that we discuss. Alexey thank you again so much for. Coming on podcast this it means so much to me. Angela great to be here. Thank you for having me. I just thought you would be the perfect guest to because today's episode is about resiliency. It's about positive positive thinking putting yourself in a good place to tackle challenges, and of course, the world's is a bit upside down right now because of covid are going through so many different challenges in their own lives and I. Really. I'm so excited to talk to you about. These topics today. Wonderful. So, let's start off with the elephant in the room. Cove nineteen has presented people with so many challenges whether it's financial. Meant or related to their mental health or relationships in their lives. How do people stay optimistic on a daily level when the bills are piling up? There is no work or work as super stressful interest interpersonal relationships or stressful. How does someone stay positive? In those moments throughout the day when there are so many challenges right now. And Selah, there are a lot of talented and I have been so. Challenge, during this time with my optimism and resilience and happiness. and this is an area that I really explored and I teach on and to watch bad happened and myself has been really interesting because I've had to dig deep. What do I really believe about this and what truly works? And so it's helpful to look at the research on happiness and the findings on multiple studies including. Harvard's eighty year study unhappiness says that connection is the key. and. So when we think about that with the pandemic. This social distancing. has compounded the pandemic of loneliness that we had before the COVID nineteen virus. So. Yeah go ahead go ahead because I again I same here and with me and with people that I know it's this. Almost constant battle between the challenges that we face and trying to keep an optimistic mind frame on a regular basis. So yes, go on. We'll right. So it's not denying that we feel that way we need to honor that because we've all of a sudden worldwide gone through chains and loss and grief isn't just about death. When someone dies grief is when we experience change unless it's a natural human process for us to experience and the first one I don't know if you can relate I can and this hits me almost every day is denial. Is this really what's happening? Is it continuing? It's just gotten worse like these thoughts go through my head and it's part of denial. That I can't just go out without a mask and sit at a cafe with friends. where? When am I going be able to. So, and then the other stages of grief. Anger. Bargaining what if we had just what if our leaders had just bad were seen playing down of anger a lot of bargaining depression. And acceptance and I can see all of that every day going through my head. So I, love what you're saying here because a lot of it seems like, okay we don't need to wake up every morning and at sunshine and rainbows and picnics. But just acknowledging that this is how we're feeling right now and that's okay, right so it's not. This thing where you have to wake up super. Smiley and force kind of this the sense of happiness on yourself when when in reality, you're feeling all of these different stages of grief. So. In essence, it's like accepting those feelings. Yes and honoring them and giving them a place and not being stuck in them. So that's what emotional regulation means. It needs. Okay. Wow. I'm really experiencing this and it's very real and okay you have a place and I'm going to journal about you. I'm GonNa talk about this to someone about you and then I'm GonNa say okay let's think on what's going well and give bat a place as well even more of a place in the day okay. What's going well and think on some positive names I love that because it certainly does take the pressure off right I. Think we can be so much easier on ourselves and take that pressure of having to be. Positive in the moment, rather show yourself a little bit of self love and say, this is home feeling right now feel those feelings. Let it pass. Then think of. Something that is going right bracelets not denying feelings but. Accepting them, and then finding something positive that we can't say while we're feeling what we're feeling is that is that. What you're saying Exactly Angela you nailed it I think they words or phrases for twenty twenty needs to be self compassion give ourselves that permission and the self love. To be in, that space. I love that. That's so good. That's easy. I can do that I can pick up in the morning and say, okay, I am feeling just some way today and. There are challenges, but I'm going to focus on this positive thing. I'M GONNA, get some sunshine on the ticket deep breath. I'm going to collect myself and I'M GONNA just go about my day. I think that's very realistic and practical. So thank you for for sure for ticking off the pressure off a lot of people right now. We need that. and. So I think this is this is a good segue in terms of self compassion into this next question because this is something that. I've I saw a facebook group I'm a part of several facebook groups. I'm sure a lot of us are and a lot of people are venting on social media now and in one of these groups. this woman she posted that the. The News and just the things that are going on around her and in the world at large. Are bringing out the darkness and her and I think based on other responses and some other follow up things as she responded to some other people. It's like she skeptical she's jaded by everything that's going on. And that really. Woke something up in me because I was thinking wow, you know this. It is one thing to say or you know to to struggle with positivity and things like that but it's another to say I am feeling. This darkness towards things or how I'm F- looking at the world's dirk than it's ever been. How do we work like how do we recognize that in ourselves and what do we do about it and and so I guess some follow up questions Salat is do we create Bhandari's that we're watching too much television too much. News were were absorbing too much social media what what's your thoughts on? What so we're going to address that by looking at what the research says. And it's really interesting Michelle Gallon and son Acre. They conducted a study people watching the news and they are finding showed just watching the news three minutes in the morning. Increases. Our chances of reporting an unhappy or depressed mood six to eight hours later by twenty seven percent. And they also call this of frontal assaults on the cerebral CORTEX. That almost I- Harvard Business Review. Yeah. They're not messing around. Tell me what you think. About happiness and resilience and optimism it's a science and they're studying it with these studies. I do you have the link I would love to link to that Whereas provide some more direction too where people can read a little bit more about that because that's that's that's fascinating to me that. The neither was an impact rate what we consume on a daily basis, the media that we can soon, it's going to have an impact on my lives, but to throw some percentages on it in this way and to see just how prevalent it as. Very. eye-opening. Well, and so they go on to say is that we can do little about what is under news and infrared energy. When we believe our behavior is irrelevant in the face of challenges that's called learned helplessness. And that's a term. We've most of have heard of an the result of learned helplessness. It's connected to low performance and higher likelihood of depression. So how many of us right now our experience met because I, know that I have experienced it. I can't do anything about this. What can I do about it and we're thinking of being motivated for day. It's linked to low performance when we're thinking about filling depressed and said, it's linked to depression. No wonder that this particular person who posted this fills that. Her personality is changed because of everything that's going on and there were hundreds of people that commented on this and replied and related to what she was saying and. It's It's something I think a lot about and I wonder how do we? Is it. So we create boundaries what how do we get around that? Then protect our personalities and our hearts from getting hard from getting jaded. What what's something that we? You know? Obviously, yes, we can watch less news and and create these foundries but what about social media and? and. Maybe maybe people around us that are toxic will how do we? How do we do that to protect our who we are to protect our personalities from getting too jaded? Well we have to acknowledge that we are all human and this is a human experience and so science studies, human behavior, and they show through the research that all of us respondents, certain ways with certain factors just naturally, and then we can build skills in those areas. So spreading boundaries like you're same is spot on Dr Caroline Leaf in her book think learn succeed she conducts research she's a cognitive neuroscientist. Her recommendation is limiting social media to two hours a day. and. So what we recommend is if the social media is at five hours, you can't just go to two hours to create a schedule to less than it without distress every day just a little bit even if it's five minutes a day that'll make a big difference in thirty days. Sounds like working out. It sounds like the same type of behavior that you need to have. When you're starting a workout. Right? You're not gonNA, go from. Never. Not running all the time to running two miles rather you you ease into it. In this case, you ease out of it out of social media for a little while and and start gradually cutting back because I feel like doing that will make it. Will help you keep the behavior versus going cold Turkey and then binging on social media the next day. 'cause you missed it so much. Exactly and what's interesting People are having disrupted sleep, and so there's exercises that we can do a doctor Martin Seligman, the modern pioneer positive psychology recommends every night to pink on what went well. So wait take it a step further and say you know some of us are so attached to our gadgets and the findings are TV won't disrupt league. The technology will so our phone and our computer in the social media. So turn all of that off TV's O. K. and think about what went well, and that is an exercise when we do it for like thirty days, it helps us wake up refreshed sleep through the night their positive results with those research studies as well. Fascinating. I love that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that I, I I agree and I'm guilty I. Do look at my own just from going to bed I, tend to watch youtube, very random youtube videos, and for some reason that makes me sleepy but doesn't necessarily equate to good quality sleep. So I know that that is something I know a lot of people are guilty of that too. So it's good to have that reminder of checking our ourselves in our usage of technology especially before bed because I'm I'm pretty sure I can speak for a lot of people when we say we can all use more quality sleep. So. Yeah, exactly and so so there's I want to kind of switch gears a little bit now and look at the other side of things. So there's there's obviously Focused on the south and I want to kind of talk a little bit about community right now and role. and. The role of community and what resilience. In community actually means how do we build a more resilient community? What role does a person play to help do that, and then how does the community? Contribute to becoming a more resilient individual. So I think obviously community is really important to all of us were not meant to socially distance at least not I think community is so important and I would love to talk a little bit more about that now and just kind of get your thoughts on building a more resilient community, what we can do and how the community and tax our own resiliency. So this reminds me a professor at Warton Dr Michael You seem gave a Webinar at the beginning of the pandemic and he said we are all leaders now. And what he explained was all of us have sphere of influence and all of us can make a difference with our daily choices and we are connected and we do have an effect on one another. And so one example was given here in. Tennessee. where I am in Johnson City, there was a pizza place that people were still going in and we hadn't been told to shelter in place yet in Tennessee and so one pizza owner he just decided to take the less. He didn't know if there was going to be help from the government at that point because he wanted to protect his employees. And he said, okay whatever it means financially and so another pizza owner restaurant owner followed suit and said Okay batsman socially responsible thing to do. So we do have an influence on one another. Minds me a lot of the work that the chef Jose Bruce does in terms of how he's using his how he's setting an example. Through, his restaurant and now other restaurants are following his his lead on this. How does someone that doesn't have a business? They're just They're just a resident and community. How do they tap into that? Circle. Of Influence. How can they? Demonstrate leadership during. This. Time. Well, we have to begin with ourselves and there's two parts, our thoughts, and our emotions and so. When I'M IN THE GROCERY STORE? That's my outing. Ends I'm there people are dodging one another. We're not looking at each other I'm in the south where we normally would smile and say hello and have a conversation were standing six feet apart at the grocery line and that's community right there. That's our contact with one another right now, and so there are emotions as well. So the mindset parts Ellis takes us through a threes that process that there's an event that happens, but it's the aid adversity. So this is what's happened is were social distancing in our community at the IRS or sort. Then, the belief is our interpretation. Well, a lot of this are scared that we're GONNA get Covid, and that's what we're thinking. That's our ignition in the grocery store when when we're with other people and then the next one is our consequence. is how we're feeling and how we're acting and our behaviors have changed towards one another and so. I I know with myself I've tried to dodge people if they've gotten too close. How does that other person feel? That's not a good feeling when I feel like someone's trying to avoid me socially a like I get more personally that's what we're Howard used the processing things and it's not personal and it's affected our community connection. So my answer to your question with conditions is to really work on being self aware during those moments and how can we foster connection and bringing a sense of calm and community even grocery shopping. Grocery shopping is such a great example of. This sense of community and how we all are now interacting with each other it during this time. So such a good example so I I want to shift gears a little bit now into work because you. You work with individuals you work with communities. We also work with businesses to help foster more engagement, more collaboration and. We can't talk about challenges in today's world without really looking at the work force and impact. The had not space I. Know a lot of people that are enjoying working from home I work from home and I think because I've been working from home since pre cova days if this is there's been no. Drastic transition for me or anything like that and. But I but actually I know people that are working from home to the very first time and they are not. Enjoying it. They are people that like the structure of the office like to have workspace and then home space and not have those two thinks. Collide. What is your advice for people that are struggling to stay motivated? Engaged in positive. With this new arrangement working from home. Right so Productivity experts we'll talk about creating a new structure and having a space with boundaries and how many times especially in the beginning did we see a news? Tres and their children were in the background interrupting, and that's just what's going to happen when we haven't created that space in our home because our home traditionally wasn't meant for work. And so There's a deeper aspect of it as well and what I think of to keep engaged and motivated. Whether we're on our own or have a family is mix it up and have some fun. That will help our brain go into a more positive state and when our brain is in a more positive, state? Arch? Community. And engagement and accuracy on task. Shoots way up and that's in the book the happiness advantage by Shawn Acre. And some knowing that we're going to be more productive and engaged an accurate when our brain is positive we need to think how can I get my brain positive? And so mix it up. Have Fun. This is really different but think about our childhood. And what we were passionate about because this is a really great time to think. How can I go back to that? It's like if it was building Legos, what can build now. With what has in my space and connect reconnect with that passion and to balance out the every day tasks whether it's works. We used to say, do you work from home meaning women raising children? Now we literally mean argued raising your kids and doing your work and everything So we need more of a work life integration in our home, I found myself asking people go to office now. So it's not so much working from home as much as is your office open are you back in the office but Yeah it's different different times. I'll tell you but y'all go on because I. Think I hear what you're saying I think that. That's really important is to find those passions. And get that inspiration because I think that does flow into then your overall mood and how you are showing up for your work. Correct. So for example, I, am not taking an online art class and that's completely new for me. I'm also writing a lot mourn. That's also new and these have been passion that had on the inside and I don't know what happens to us when we're kids and when we were growing up, maybe it's something someone said where we suppress that patch turn and we don't really follow it because maybe we're not that healed added and do Cameron the author of the artist's way. She has a quote and she says, you have to be willing to be bad at something and just do it, and so it's not that I'm so skilled in arts a however topping into that and being creative with my own art helps me it helps me feel happy and that's a good thing. That's. Exactly I. Agree completely without any reminds me of a friend of mine also she's she's amazing. She's an author and speaker and she she's phenomenal Denise Jacobs. She's the author of banish your inner critic and she was a guest on in season two and she talks about. This. You know similar to what you were just saying that you know your your child and you have this bizarre unfiltered. On UNTARNISHED Things that bring you joy idea of the worlds and as you get older. Criticisms or. Just bad feedback or rejection or something happens. You Know Life Things Happen Challenges Happen along the way that diminishes. Those those things kind of puts you know dims the lights on the things at once brought his Jillian. Suddenly, we become very self critical of our work of our of our. Creative process of our interactions with people you know we. We have this voice in our head that's telling us. We can't. Do. You know we can't do it or we you know it's not going to be good enough or we're not good enough and so yeah. This book Anish in critic touches a lot on that and reminds me of of what you're what you're seeing right now which I think is so important because. When we have those. When we have that spark the those things that bring us joy your our classes, and you know you're you're doing more writing and you're having this creative outlet not translates into so many areas of our lives. Yes So. I. Think this can be redirected for us to a real positive outcome taking this pathway and this approach but it's a discipline and it's a new pathway for a lot of us, and so any new like you had said earlier, it's like going to the gym you just start off A. Bench. Pressing a large amount of weight you have to. Take your time and build up to it. So many of these topics are just worthy of a deeper much deeper dive and I can to you forever. But I do want to before we wrap up I. I do want to kind of. Get a bird's eye view and take a couple of steps box everything right Eventually this pandemic is going to end were all I'm sure just waiting for the day that that happens because of scene or whatever it might be that it comes to an end and now. We know and hopefully we can get a break without any other major traumatic world events. that. We can actually say okay. Let me look at my life. Let me look at the bigger picture. Let me. Ask The question. About. Where things are going What are some tips you can share? Around having. An optimistic life. So the first thing that we can do is practice gratitude and journal. and. So there's studies people practicing gratitude daily three different things. A day for twenty three days and that rewire the brain, and that again is son acres research. So having a habit of gratitude. Also sending am I now. Can I just jump in on that really quick because I know we hear that we hear that yes, gratitude but. In Europe in to you in your opinion and and just from your background and your knowledge, and and obviously this is a space that you are in. Is congratulated. Be a very small think like. Today because when I hear you know I think. You know I'm really big on gratitude and some days I'm just grateful that. I have many many tubs of hand sanitizer in my house like honestly some days. I'm I'm grateful for very little things. You know things that. Might not seem like a big deal on the micro, but when you say practice gratitude. Is, not, anything from. I'm so grateful for my health to I'm grateful. I have ice cream today like what is great? How can people practice gratitude on the big scale but also on the little skill or or or does that not matter or or does it matter? I love what you're saying it has to be how you're explaining it in. July. It has to be I'm so grateful that I'm alive today and I have breath and look the sun is shining. It's the little things half the matter because we don't have the events right now and we don't know what the events are going to look like once we stabilize and so we're not looking forward and so sports may be different for a very long time. So how are we going to show gratitude for that? If we're Kinda sad about it. It's to say, okay. All right. I'm grateful and if it's just that I got up this morning on grateful and if that is all I can think of an election, right? Then that's what I'm GonNa do and I'm just GonNa, go back to that and focus on it that that's a good way to tie it into what we were first talking about with accepting the way that you're feeling that day not being really hard on yourself and then saying you know I'm grateful that. I'm I'm grateful internetworking today and that's a positive beautiful thing in my life right now. Right. So I, right. So I think like you can tie those two things and in terms of finding that positively. On your daily and tying not into things that you're grateful for. So I didn't mean to interrupt. You were just about to say writing something about writing emails. So go on. Right so yet right an email, send a text going Messenger and every day say thank you to someone. Thank you for being in my life So maybe it's not something that they said or did that we can think of it. Just thank you for your presence and for your acceptance and that you love me. Because when we yeah when we help others seal happy than we are happy. Exactly and I actually I do this because my friends are awesome. They send me funny memes. Just randomly on WHATSAPP or on Instagram and they just make me laugh so much and I I'm always just thankful. I'm thankful to them for sending me something funny and giving me that those thirty seconds to just laugh at that moment. So I'm not something I'm grateful for and I Let my friends know and I think them right away for making me laugh. So Yep, I think that's wonderful. Easy. Thing to do that doesn't take a lot of time to send not taxed to people or that email. So I love that suggestion. And also savor the moment when something. Positive. Happens sit in it for a few minutes with the dots like we're simmering and cooking. Then we're going to get more of the flavor in are being of it and more appreciation words and it's going to be more ingrained in the brain. You know that situation thank you for sharing not because it's something I need to work on celebrate I need to celebrate more the little wins I don't do that enough. Angela we all do most of us are naturally pessimistic and we do grow up with negative responding and holding on more to the negative, and we have to train ourselves in these skills. And so just acknowledging that where we're at is a great place to start. I've heard psychologists recently stay at conferences that I went to in two thousand nineteen. That if we'd just listened to one another as human beings, we'd have a great reduction in cases of depression and anxiety. And these are. neuroscientists also who are showing this in research that we benefits from being heard and knowing that we're cared for that someone's listening. So connection. connecting to people and connecting with God's and I do bring up the faith aspects because positive psychology has conducted research with people who live close to their fate. And the findings are that they have higher levels of optimism. I've loved this conversation. I think this is so great I again I. I. Appreciate you so much. You brought so much the table and actually I would love to link to all of these various things that use that you've brought up during this call. I've learned so much These studies at existed. So I really am so appreciative that you brought those Those on my radar should say and so I do want to. Ask You just before we rob Rep up here is. What what what are you working on? Is there anything that you want to share any project? Any anything interesting anything else that you might want to add that we didn't cover. So a final takeaway is do what we can daily with what is in our control. And identify what is not in our control and let it go. So. True. So Hard Ville, I struggling to but it's so true though you are so spot on about that. Yes you're right. You're right. Right and it's another skill to develop, and that could be a quick list as we're feeling stress. To release, sit down and say, okay I'm going to write down what can I control about the situation and what can I not control and to actually do something about what's on that list we're gonNA feel more empowered. And hopeful hope you said it it's a huge word and we need that a because. In suicide assessments, that is a very important part of the assessment is measuring the level of hope and when people have low levels of hope their higher at risk of going through with their plan. Hope, is so important home we cannot under you cannot downplay the importance of hope in everything I think. So and I think that's a beautiful way to wrap up this conversation Alekseeva. Thank you again so much. I'm so I do want assurance you are willing to your your bio and all of the links that we we talked about today as well as your social media handles will be on the website, but you did show that it was the resilient pathway and. A. Agile and pass. Are Those instagram or those twitter or those what are those platforms for? Right. So the resilient pathway, dot, com is my website. Has Events I do have some. Zoom events that are group related that our hearts. Okay I. Love that. Said and I also have the podcast agile. MTA where routine stocks pills to leaders and agility emotional intelligence having empathy with our teams and what that looks like. Even virtually. So we do have facebook Lincoln instagram twitter. Unite Handles. Yeah. Awesome and like I said, I will have all of those on the website. Thank you again so much listeners. Thank you for tuning. In this week I. Hope You feel a little bit more empowered a little bit. Just more inspired to. Think about today a little bit more positively think about your future a little bit more positively. I hope that you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did and I invite you to. Men Again, next week for another new fabulous guests thinking so much until then take care. Bye.

facebook founder and principal Angela Instagram Harvard Harvard Business Review Angie Alexey Alex George Hugh Turkey Martin Seligman Europe youtube Dr Caroline Leaf Dr Michael You Tennessee. Smiley Johnson City
Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend (Robert Caro)

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

1:04:38 hr | 1 year ago

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend (Robert Caro)

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Visit sprint stores sprint dot com or call eight hundred sprint one who fifty dollars a month to twenty two fifty credit applied within two bills earlier remain doing limited basic after six thirty twenty eight thirty two dollars per month per line for five lines. With auto pay data deprioritization, during additions maximums. Here's restrictions apply. I can never find the right vacation home. It's a problem. That's why I always ended up just driving to a beach and just sleeping on it. And the cops are like move along move along almost stereotypical Irish Cup from the thirties, moved along their son. But it's tough. You know you get lost online trying to find that perfect vacation spot. You need Virgo do the hard work for you. They match up to the perfect place to stay every time. No more sleeping on the beach getting moved along by stereotypical Irish caught from the thirties from condos to cabins places with yards grills hot tubs. They have it all. Search. B. R B O in the app store to download the verb. Oh app today. Put a stop to frustrating, vacation searches is this house haunted what's going on in that yard? Is that really a pool or just a puddle? Let Virgo find a home that matches you Virgo as you're probably aware. I I love comedy. I also love traveling, the globe meeting different funny people so. This caught my eye. You should not miss lose all new original series Rami, now, streaming only on Hulu. It's cool. It's based on the real life experiences of comedian Rami Yussef its groundbreaking comedy series. It takes viewers into the world of a first generation Muslim American cop between Egyptian community. That thinks life is a moral test and millennial generation that thinks life has no consequences. So basically this guy stole my story. Check it out all episodes of Romney now. Streaming only on Hulu. Hi, my name is Robert Caro. I'm really cautiously optimistic about being old conman O'Brien's fresh. Back to school. Welcome. Looks. Hello there and welcome to Conan O'Brien needs friend. This is the show where I very desperately use the podcast format to make people be friendly to me for an hour at a time. Then they usually get away. I'm joined by my assistance cinema assessing your my assistant in real life, aren't you? I am your assisted in real life. Do feel like he was just me. Why are you always ask me these questions? Yes, I assist you. I'm the only assistant you have things happen and they happen because I assist you. Okay. Take it easy. No. So this all the time shouting into a very sensitive. Sorry you're driving right now. I apologize for Sonos shriek. It's always like I'm here with my assistant soda, she sucks, that are John, you to not. And then there's no got appeared I can do for you. I didn't get too mad. Yes, that girlie. That's even real name. How are you? Matt could to see you. Good to see you. Oh. Come on show. Little enthusiasm. I haven't gone after yet. Well, I feel like you're, you're about to. No, I'm none. I've got my guard up. I got you. The only I've never seen. It's impressive. I've never seen headphones that are tweed for his tweet headphones. Pretty funny score. One for Conan at is pretty good. I'll give you that that's pretty good. I thought you'd be on your best behavior today. You know what you'd think I would be on my best behavior, because this is a very, very, very special episode of Conan O'Brien needs a friend. I've been pursuing my next guest for years years, and years and years, that's ounce threatening the New York Times referred to this man, as the white whale to my hab, which means he'll end up killing me. He is considered by many, many people to be one of the greatest biographers of all time for his crime. Breaking work on Robert Moses and his many books on Lyndon Johnson. Well the impossible is happened. He is here, sitting right across from me. He can't escape. Let gentlemen. Mr Robert Caro. You know, the story that I've been trying to hunt you down to get an interview with you for years. And I don't think you even knew that no, my publisher arranges things. And I never even heard your publisher apparently really hates my guts. Bye. And probably for good reason, but I'm just going to back up here. I'm sure I have many listeners who are very familiar with your work. And I'm sure I also have many listeners who are very young, who haven't read your work aren't familiar with your work, and I want to stop for just a second and say, for God's sake. Do yourself a favor sometimes, I think people freeze up when they hear historical biography historic work. They think well, this is going to be dry. This is going to be homework and what Robert Caro has done is he has figured out a way to write history. In a way where you you read it and you feel like you're reading gripping novel all of it's true, he's a stickler for the facts. But it's so well written that your heart is in your mouth at times, when you're reading these accounts, you've written about a guy named Robert Moses, who intrigued you because you found out that he was probably the most power. Man in the history of New York, but he had never been elected to anything. Nobody really knew how he had this power. But this is the man that if you are in New York City, you cannot probably walk fifteen feet without running into something that Robert Caro built, what did Robert Caro Bill? They rub it. I'm sorry. What you can tell research I thought it was you that Bill? But I'm sorry, Robert Moses. Little, he built everything you can imagine in New York City. He built six hundred twenty seven miles of expressways in pockets if you're driving on a highway in or around New York, City or suburbs? You're driving on a road built by one man, Robert Moses, if you're on a modern bridge Detroit the verrazano the triborough et cetera. You're driving on a bridge. He built you're an oppo. If you're an opponent, or an apart- that he either created or reshape, you know, he built so much in New York that when he was with the New York City public housing authority. He didn't even include what he had done there in his resume. But in fact, he built apartments for one hundred forty eight thousand people, so that city is shaped by this one man who has, you say was never elected to anything. That is a book called the powerbroker this book is absolutely riveting. It's beautifully told and what I'm doing right now is I'm going back and I'm listening to the audio book. Have you ever listened to the audio book of? Of your actually, I have, you know what they got someone. Very good too on this thing. Yeah. He's very good. And so, I have here in Los Angeles, you have to drive everywhere and takes forever. And I put on the powerbroker a few weeks ago, and I listened to it when I'm driving around and it reminds me how well the book is written how great the story is, and I also know that it will never run out. I can I think I, I can listen to this for twenty years. It's a really long one, but it's an tastic. They apparently have a very good reader. Yeah. With a little British accent. You hear my accent. Yeah. So I said to my agent ones. Can I read this one and she said, then the price will go down? Got a pretty thick New York accent. Yeah. So they didn't want you reading it, so, yeah, you also you have just one world acclaim for your writings about Lyndon Johnson, starting with the first book path to power again. I know I sound like a schoolteacher, but I would implore people who are listening, go out and get this book or get it on your kindle or get the book on tape. Get the power broker and get started. And listen to the story of this young guy Lyndon Johnson, and it's absolutely it will floor you because what you've managed to do is right as I said, you, you write history in a way that puts you there, you really feel like I understand this kid Lyndon Johnson. I understand what it's like to live in the hill country in Texas, at that time you have a lot of empathy for these people that you write about. We talked a little bit about that last night. But your sense of place in order to write about Lyndon Johnson? You moved you decided I can't write about this guy unless I moved to the hill country in Texas, and live there and your wife who's with us today. I know who's also does the research and is such a powerful force in your creative life. She said, okay, let's do it. She didn't quite say that. She said, why can't you do biography of Napoleon? But then, of course the line. She said, sure. Okay. Okay. We'll be nice. Peta historic figure who lived, mostly in the south of friends, and ate, a lot of delicious, pastry to really understand him. Robbery Caroline had to eat all those pays just he lived in a castle. And I need to live in a Kaos, but I'd be right about someone who lived in the country, and you didn't set out to go into this kind of detail. But one of the things that just was so remarkable in that first book, is that you went back to the hill country and you wanted to really understand how hard it was for people to live. This was there was there was no electricity in the hill country, when Lyndon Johnson was born and grew up. He was the one that brought the electricity there, you spend a lot of time really figuring out what a day was like, for someone who lived. And you surely, it's really the story of poverty, and loneliness, the loneliness out. There was something that I couldn't understand because I grew up in New York City Lyndon Johnson lived out on. The Johnson ranch, which is really in the middle of nowhere. One corner that ranch came down to what they call the Austin Fredericks were highway, but it was an unpaved rutted road between Orson Fredericks were and Linden. Johnson's little brother, used to tell me how he and Linden would go down and sit at the co on the corner of that, fence closest to the road in the hope that one new ride or carriage would come by have one new person to talk to. I couldn't even understand that loneliness, or as you say the poverty. Yeah, there was no cash, there, you could get going for does if you sold a dozen eggs. But you had to sell them in a place called mobile falls, which is twenty three miles from Johnson city. So a friend of Linden, Johnson's gardening. Ben quieter told me how every Saturday market he'd ROY, those twenty three miles carrying a dozen eggs in a box in front of him holding the box in both hands so that they wouldn't break I. I'm not understanding these people, and I'm not understanding Lyndon Johnson, who just going to have to move there and trying to learn what it was like to live with their Hugh move there with Aina, and you upright yourself from New York you living in the hill, country, one of the effects, this had because you live there and you stayed there is that the people started to get to know you, yes, exactly. And then you went from being that guy from New York with the glasses to ask him a lot of questions about lending Johnson. You transform over time into, oh, there's Bob Bob Carroll. I know him, you know, there's I know because I the women there were a lot of widows in the hill country. They wouldn't really be Frank. You know talk to me about their personal laws. What it was like without electricity. I we have three fig preserve a three fig trees on our property, so Arnold how to make fig preserves and she'd go first with the gift of fig preserves. Which and suddenly people got friendly. I knew as I continued to make preserves and should market those. Oh, okay. Clearly not a fan. They were okay, but not up to your standards of fake preserves. There's a scene in the book in the first book that you're on Lyndon Johnson, where the pivotal point in his life was his father. He looked up to his father idolize his father, Lyndon Johnson idolizes father. And then, like, so many sort of almost Greek tragedies his father makes a mistake his father invest in this ranch. The, the soil wasn't good in the ranch and suddenly they're broke. And one of the things you were able to do when you got out there is actually see why that ranch failed, and it's a great story. We'll, then I'll tell through. This worse. So Lyndon Johnson idolize his father. He was a legislator in Texas legislature. And he passed a lot of progressive legislation and Linden said the happiest days of my life when I would go out campaigning from farm to farm with my father, see, however, you wanna respected him and all, then his father may, as you just set one mistake to Johnson ranch was covered, what we came to Johnson ranch, we covered with beautiful grass. It's so beautiful. When you drive out there tonight. So one of Linden's cousins is favorite cousin. Eva said, well, I want I want to show you something about Sam Johnson, and what it means to me to make a mistake. So she drove me to a hill at the edge of the ranch and get out of the car got out of the car, and she said no kneel down. I'm knelt down. She said now stick your fingers into the soil. This soil covered with beautiful graphs and you stuck your fingers and you couldn't even get is the whole. Anger in, because it was so little grass there that look dutiful. But if you try to make a living from either planned cotton, then the grass washed away, graze, cattle or the Cadillac down. You couldn't do anything with it. So in an instant as you just put her they were broke from the about the age of thirteen before the became the laughing stock of town, and they lived in a little house in Johnson city at every month Linden was afraid the Bank was gonna take away, and they often didn't even have food in the house, because the mother was also orphan, sick. So neighbors had a burn covered dishes there and his feelings towards his father, changed to one of absolute conflict, the rest of his boyhood. Yeah, there's a great scene. You talk about in the book with that, you got out of Linden Johnson's brother, where the father and Linden are fighting bitterly at the table. And the father is demeaning Linden, saying, you're not college material, you're not. You're not college material and you're going to be failure and Linden snaps back. Would you. You're just a bus inspector. And you read that exchange and you it's like you're reading classic play. It's willy Loman. It's death of a salesman. It's just it hits you right in the gut this terrible disappointment. That the father that the son has for the father and the resentment the father has for the sun that he may be gets another chance. That's terrific way of summing been. That's really what happened. You know, there's another thing that just talking to anyone out there listening who might think we'll haven't read these books, but why Lyndon Johnson, what's the significance of Lyndon Johnson? I know he was a president. I know he was president during Vietnam. But what what's the real significance? They're one of the things that stands out in one of your book, one of your books master of the Senate is that it up until in Johnson, the Senate didn't function. And then he becomes he'd be. Orderly? You comes the majority leader. And then when he's done being Jordi leader, and he becomes the vice president the president. But the minute he stops that job, it has never really worked since what is it that Lyndon Johnson had that enabled him to make the Senate work that no one else has been able to crack in the history of our country? That's the nature political genius to me. If you're interested urine interested in, in how government works. Yeah. You, you looking at a genius. He comes to be majority leader Johnson comes in. He wants to pass civil rights legislation and voting rights legislation. And you watch him vote by vote, turn in that Senate around, and you really say, could anyone else have done this at? Sometimes I do think we wouldn't have that voting rights legislation today, if Lyndon Johnson hadn't had this genius for it, then when John Kennedy's assassination, and he's proposed this wonderful civil rights. Spill in a wonderful speech, but that Bill was going nowhere. It was. Absolutely right. The south was not gonna they were not going to let that happen. No, it wasn't going to happen. So four days after Johnson becomes president and he has to give us I address to congress joint session of congress. He's not even in the Oval Office. He's still in his private home downstairs in the kitchen table, three or four of his speechwriters gathered around trying to write to speech, and he comes down after a while and ask how they're doing, and they say, well, the only thing we can agree on is don't make civil rights of priority. You do that. You're going to tag Anais these southern committee chairman, they going to do to you, what they did to Kennedy and you're going to stop your whole legislative program, you know with since, and they say, you know, it's a noble cause, but it's a lost court. Right. Don't fight for it. And you know, Johnson says he says, what the hell is the presidency for them. And he's speech. He says to the all sitting in front of him though. Whole all the southern city and he says, our first priority is going to pay us Jack Kennedy civil rights spill and you watch him do that. And you say I say, I never knew you could do this. I never knew you could do that. You know, if it's poem of judge of real genius. Yeah. Obviously, we have leaders that can inspire you mentioned Kennedy. And we have, you know, leaders like Obama, they can inspire. And then there's just there's the workings the gears and the levers of government that no one seems to be able to figure out anymore and Lyndon Johnson may have been the last person who saw how it all worked you call him. You will you, you find out that he was the best vote counter. He could figure out who was with him who is not with him. And he could keep a tally in his head at all times, and he made that system. Unlike anyone else, yes. And you know, part of it was people were afraid of him and he made them afraid of him. And he was also. Lyndon Johnson was six four and he all these famous pictures, a bunch of them in your books, but they're everywhere of him getting when he wanted to talk you into something he today, we have is this concept of personal space home movement about personal space and you don't invade someone's personal space, and he would get chest to chest with people and lean over them and put his finger into there and you look at it now, and you think, well, that there's lawsuits left and right here. Man suing Lyndon Johnson for it. Looks like he's physically assaulting now but has just leaning in and covering them like a blanket note. The thought of it that way, but that's certainly. Certainly the case your victim of your own success. Which is you have so enthralled people with these books about Lyndon Johnson. And now, people are waiting for this installment that I think takes us from sixty four to I'm guessing his death since nineteen Seventy-three. Does he died and people want that book? And when is that book coming, and you've made it clear that there's a lot of research you need to do to really write this, including you believe you need to go to Vietnam. And, and spend some time there to understand that war and see it from the beaten AMIS perspective, is outright and see it for perspective of American boys. Who for the first time how to fight in John Gould with that was like you. And they'll, we dropped more bombs on Viet nam than we dropped on Germany, and were in World War Two. Yeah, what you're talking about doing is going there and really living. It seeing it from that. Perspective. And when you do something like that, I'm, I'm assuming is gonna go with you on this one, too. Well, unless she's wants to go to Paris. There were peace talks in Paris. You could go. And you could work on Dell cover Paris, and for the Parisian. Yeah. Parisians perspective on Paris, and you can do that. And I've host stay at the hotel, George sank. I think that'd be I think maybe that's where Kissinger stayed and. You can be in the jungle. So I had a birthday recently, I had a birthday just a couple of days ago and you know what it made me realize in life, anything can happen. It's true. I'm getting older hurtling towards the grave, some would say awful weight and look at that. Yeah. Well, that's what my own kid said, as I blew out the candles on my cake. Both my kids said hurtling towards the grave. And then my wife showed it never to return. Kind of birthdays, I have. I do think about that. Anything can happen in life and you know what that got me thinking about on my birthday is I blow the candles, right? State farm agents state firm agents are out there and they know that in life anything can happen. You know anything. Good things bad things saying yes to a proposal and having to buy that ring. I mean sorry, not having to getting to. You know, a tree falls on your head who knows. So whatever happens when it comes to home and auto insurance. This is a fought. I've had recently state firm is here to help. I swear to God state farm, I mean, if I could get a tattoo that said anything on it, it might say state farm is here to help, you know, there's ups and downs in life. Everything going kooky and I'll help. Do you do? And it got nineteen thousand agents. Think about that nineteen thousand agents in neighborhoods across the US nineteen thousand state farm agents, you know, throw a tennis ball. You'll hit six of them. Contact an agent today, because no matter what neighborhood you're from or whatever stage of life. You're in, you might be in my stage hurling towards the tomb state farm agents are here to help life, go, right? Talk to an agent today at one eight hundred state farm. Yeah. State farm, it help life, go right? It's interesting to me, it's fascinating to me in how much of your work you've had to kind of be a detective and not even kind of be a detective. You've had to be a detective. You've had to track people down. There is a great part in this new book, working, there's this myth that Lyndon Johnson when he was in high school and college was very popular. And people just are there. They sound like broken records and they're just saying. Oh, yeah. I'll go Linden go Linden. But you suspect there might be more to the story than that. And you keep asking people keep saying, there's this one guy who really knew his Vernon Whiteside, Vernon Whiteside. You says Vernon Whiteside. They say if you could get to, you know, Vernon Whiteside boy had hit tell you some stories and a lot of people just told you. But that's too bad because he's dead. Yes. Everyone thought he was that because he had this ranch, and he was gone. But I'm trying interview all the classmates. Anyway, they're all saying. I heard over and over again. Oh, watt side, he Dave. Actor days days. Date. Yeah. That's what I was. That's how I was trying. Let me take on the voice. But people convince you getting now to me, if I was a thank God, I'm not a reporter or a biographer. I would've said, well, he's dead. So nothing we can do about that. Let's move on. So one day I was calling. No, I'm tried interview every one of his classmates who were still alive, and I called this guy, and it was Howard Richards. And I said, I wanted to drive down and see him. He lived in Galveston, and he said, well, I don't know the inside of some of these stores. But this one guy who did old Vernon Whiteside? And I said, yeah, but, oh, what side he days? You're making fun of him. And he said, tell no, he ain't date. He was here. Visiting me yesterday. It turned out they thought he was dead, because he had sold his ranch a mobile home and taken his wife for fifteen months tour all the way up to Alaska of the entire United States. And I said, well, we're, we're going, he said, well, you know, they were going to have a permanent mobile home, some place in Florida. He said the only thing I remember was north of Miami had beach in its nail. So I remember today, you have a national telephone directory on your computer. You can join anybody then you didn't every little town had its own phone book. So I the new York Public Library, you still have hundreds and hundreds of these little phone books. So I remember I and I sitting on the floor and this little room where they were looking at every town that had beach in its name, north of Florida, which has to be hundreds of them is an awful lot of them, and we just divided them up and started calling. And interestingly, if I started at the other end of my list, I wouldn't have found them because I suddenly was talking so in Highland beach, I was calling all the mobile home places, and she said, oh, yes, the white sides pulled in here a couple of hours ago. So if I called a couple of hours, sooner, I wouldn't have found them I didn't want to give them a chance to say no to me that he wouldn't talk to me. So I jumped on a plane and went there and knocked on the door. And this big gentleman, as I recall it on this earth. You know by came till you are. And I said, on Bob Kiram writing by feeling the Johnson. They said oh, then you want to know about the stolen elections in college. He said, come on, in, and he just a dream, come true about the time he stolen election college come on in. In gold. I just sat there and he filled in old and confirmed all the stories but there was one other thing that I would you were going to mention I know you know about this. And so I I'm calling this one woman, and she says, I don't know why you keep asking these questions to me, Mr. Carro, Mr. Kehro as, as they call it, it's all there, in black, and white, I said, all there in black and white where she said in a yearbook, it's all or what we what we called him about the stolen elections that we called them bowl Johnson. And I'll I'll, I'll use the word. His name was bowl. Johnson for bullshit, Bs his thought he was full of it. That was his nickname. College Johnson, the man who later became coined the credibility gap on could believe him on the name. So I should what page is he talking about? And she got her yearbook, and she named five pages. So I've been through that yearbook several times without overseeing this, and I looked and those pages were going. And then you could see someone had. Out, you know, at the very spine of the book, the something, very sharp, like a razor blade, and I said, boy, someone cut, I looked, I found several other copies of the yearbook pages were missing. I finally found one that the pages will win and all the stock Yamin tation was there. And I remember thinking, what am I dealing with here? You know, I'm dealing with the human being who at the age of twenty one was so concerned about his reputation. You could say his place to come in history that he has cut out of hundreds of copies of his college yearbook pages that were derogatory or making fun of them more than fun chronicling things that he did that made them not trust them. Yeah. And also who steals a college election. I mean that is that tells you so much about Lyndon Johnson. And just that sentence. I stole an election in college. Yeah. And the reason that he did it tells a lot about lending, John. Soon because he had this all I as he laid out in the Senate for what gives you power. You know it's interesting because he learned early. If you really need to win election, and it's crucial you win an election. You do what you have to do and you, you talk about this in, in one of your books. He has a chance to run for Senate, and he realizes I have just got to win, and it's going to be a very, very close election, but he doesn't take any chances, and it was always always rumor that he has stolen it, but there was no proof. And people said you never gonna find proof because this is a guy that never put anything in writing, and never gonna find it. You're never going to find the proof. And this is the part where if you know, if if you're listening and you are a fan of the show breaking bad. This is the level of drama. We're talking about you track down. There's a legendary guy is Louis solace. Lewis solace is this legendary almost some people just call him Indio, which made me think of this show breaking bad. But he's this character. That wears a gun on his hip and the the barrel. So long goes down to his nee and he's a big tough guy. And people said, we'll no. He's gone. You'll never find him. He was rumored to be the one who probably helped steal the election. You found him. You've found him. He was alive. You have. And when you found him he was no longer the giant, you know, imposing guy named India whose mysterious you found it very different guy because much later in life took long term because he killed Amana ballroom broil into Rango. But we've all. Mr kerley. That's how I had to get into television. But he was doubted Mexico someplace, people kept telling me he was alive, but they don't know where he was. He he used to say. Lewis moves around a lot. Let me people ask why my books, take one. Let me tell you Choi devoid a Mexican who moves around a lot. Yes. That's not a matter of hours. Right. Right. Right. But kill a man and Durango. You move around. But I finally found he was actually back in Texas. He was living in a mobile home in the backyard of his daughter, grace and use them. So I again, I'm not going to give them a chance to say. No. You won't talk to me. So I knock on the door was very funny. I expect just like you said, I that we looking up at this four inch bruiser and this eighty four year old frail little old man opens the door. I'm looking down. But he wasn't just willing to talk to me. He was anxious to talk to me, and I hadn't been talking to him very long. You see he was on the stand. There was a federal investigation into this election. He's on the stand. And the judge has just said something like my memories, but not based on this bed approximately. Now, we're going to open the ballot box that we're you certified the votes, you he was the election. You the whole thing. Yeah. He was the key to the whole thing at that moment, it such a dramatic thing. You always. When you're writing, exaggerating a man runs into the courtroom with a piece of paper. And he says supreme court Justice you go black has ordered this investigation stopped. And in fact, it was never reopened again. So what was Louis salis gonna say when they open this box, and they asked about the two hundred nine votes were added to Johnson's total? And he says, you know, Robert, I have written it all down. And he goes over to the large brass bound, Trump in the corner, and he pulls out a ninety four page manuscript that he has written. He's king. Very bad on grammar, and well. But he says he wrote this history. It's called box thirteen. The name of this precinct is a box that they call them boxes and tech, his thirteen and it says exactly how he did. So after I found out, I said, you know, never going to have to write the same sentence that all is in all these other books that nobody will ever really know if Johnson stolen I said, I can write the sentence, he stoled mile and there's the person too. I mean, telling you, I did it in writing interisland mean right? So I said, no, I said, well, what if he dies what if he allies this? So I asked him this question your heart is in your throat. And I said, would you mind if we made a copy of this for me, and he says, sure, and we went to a neighborhood convenience store, and we stood there while we copied it having my in a drawer my desk to this day. So he's the dream, he dream find not only is he gonna tell you. Yes, I w-. I was there, I knew Lyndon Johnson. And I'm the one that stole the election forum and there's a kinko's down the street we can make copies. The, the great moments. There's a moment where you're trying to understand what it was like for Lyndon Johnson, when he first came to Washington DC, and you really wanted to understand it. So he retraced how he would have walked to the capitol building or to his office, that was near the capitol building. And you figured out what time of day he'd be walking there. And you wanted to see where the sun was so that you could really understand that feeling that he would have an exactly what it looked like to him. You're very methodical about the facts, but it's also key for you in a novel Listrik sense, almost put yourself there as a human being and see and feel what it's like where you're very complimentary. I'm not sure deserve all that. But what you do, but it's nice that you don't think you do, but you do, but the incident, you're talking about was really a fascinating example of what you can come out of doing that. So Lyndon Johnson. And then lived in a little hole. Shabby hotel down near Union Station, and he'd walk up the hill to Capitol Hill, his orphan, and then he'd walk along the whole east front of the capitol, which, you know, his this is long as two and a half football fields seven hundred and fifty feet long. I found the woman who worked in the office with him using whatever twenty two years old. She's also a ranch girl. He's, he's a ranch boy, so the they're getting up early in the morning. And she says she's coming from the other direction. And she says, you know, the thing that got me, he'd walk up the hill, and as soon as he got in front of the capitol, he start running as if he was very excited with his arms flopping. We sort of off, he would run the length of the capital every morning. She said, I when it was at first, it was winter, and he was very poor. So I knew he didn't have a coat. So I thought he was running because he was cold. But then she said to me, you know, gonna turn warm spring, and he was still running. So I said, I, I wanna see. Is there something that excited him that made him run every morning? So I can't tell you how many times I walked that same road. I didn't see anything in particular that would excite them. Then I thought of something, you know, bomb, you never did it. He did it very early in the morning because they're ranch kids. So they get up with the sun. He did a five thirty or six o'clock in the morning. You never done it. Then I did it. I saw him our like that. And all of a sudden I felt I understood it because what happens is, this is the east front of the couple of capital. That faces the east the sun comes up, let's say at five thirty so full force, it's level raise hit this entire you long mass of white marble and with its columns and it's a roic figures above, and it's lit up like some gigantic blazing white movie sets. And of course, he got excited, he's coming from this land of little log. Door. Gruen cabins, and all of a sudden he seeing this is where I can attain. This is the power of a sovereign state or whatever you want to say, I can have this. If I succeed appear in foresee got excited. Yeah. It's cinematic all that marble. Glowing exciting this poor kid from the hill country excites, and it's sort of thrilling to me to see. Well, and you've captured that you've captured that in the books, you have all these people that are always anxious for the next book whenever you finish a book, and they love it. And it's taken you nine ten years, of course, is the nature of human beings immediately. They want the next one would have you done for me lately, you know, hey Carol. We're that's great. I just finished it was twelve hundred pages and it was beautiful. Where's the next one and you must encounter fans and people in New York, you're you in China are known people when you're walking around, you're taking your walk in central park, you're trying to enjoy your lives. And people who wonder why aren't you working right now getting that. The people trying to guilty you into. Why are you at right now having an ice cream? I don't think anyone tries to guilt me, but I do get an unfortunate number of times every day a week. You know, when is the next one coming, I'll tell you who never else is my publisher. Mike publishers, number Asmi when is, when is your book going to be done? You're to deliver. I've been very lucky that we're now is your publisher happy that you took a break to do this book, working. No, he was furious. Not my, my ear, you, rather you read it or just wants all things. Look, we got this big book on Johnson. You gotta finish that and you say, well, I'm working on something else right now. And that must that you're probably irritates, the, the editor yes, but editors are fun to irritate. Sometimes it's hard to have a conversation with someone like you and not think about what's happening today. And I'm sure you get asked the Salat, and none of us can really know. No. Because we're living in this moment, none of us really understand this moment. But it has occurred to me that there are incredible similarities between Donald Trump in a Lyndon Johnson need to win win at any cost, both fullness, sometimes, you know, crude behavior the list goes on. And on, when you know, I'm so buried in my own work right now that I'm not paying the kind of attention that I order pay. I mean I read the paper every day, I follow it like everyone else, what I haven't really thought of the answers about what's going on. You know right now. I think I told you last night, I think the really unfortunate thing from or poor new view, my point of view anyway, is a people doubt that the facts you know, that the scientific facts about, so as I said, there is no one truth, but there are facts, and if democracy doesn't have if people don't have facts that they can make a judgment. And on whichever way they're going to be then what does it amount to that power comes from their casting votes at a ballot box on what they said, so they casting, so I think nothing is more serious than that. But the fact is, when we talk about facts factors, something that you may have heard, but you can prove it by something you find. Let's say an Johnson papers there. It is. And that's what an informed electorate is that they've informed them selves, about facts. And that's the way it's been, you know, history. So now it's not starting to become it has become something, we're facts or as you put her relative. So then you say so what is the power of the microscope the power of informed electorate, I think James Madison said something like if people in a democracy Warner have power, they have to know I know he didn't say this. This is what he meant. They have to have facts to base there. The power of their vote on. And that seems to me, not to be fading, but to have a time, I don't, I don't actually think anything's more more are truly dangerous to the concept. If you don't have an informed electorate than what exactly is conferring power in this country. Yeah. That is chilling. And this is something we can't know right now 'cause we're right in the middle of it. But is Trump? There's two ways you can look at it one is that he is this complete one off. He's an anomaly or the other possibility that this is the beginning of a new type of politician. Yes, you, you wonder, you know, in terms, you could say a Rome is he an aberration in lowering loin of Roman emperors, or is he is he the first in a different loin of Roman emperors like Khalilur Nero. We don't know that right now. I think we're right to be. Scared about that. Yeah. The truth. But the fact is, we don't sorry keep sorry to use the word factor. But your fact man, that's what my fact, but we don't but we really don't know the answer, and yeah. And I'd like to point out to everybody that Khalil is the one who made his horse, a Senator that is something that in the current administration. Sounds. Some of the appointees and you'd think I'd take a horse. You almost hit a spin, take color. Robert Kennedy was bid Jake. There are a couple of his appointees. I'd say we get a horse. Maybe link you at the right idea. I do worry you're such a hard worker, and I left this event last night I left it late. And then we're taping this very early in the morning, you got here before I did. I'm a whimper snapper. You got here before I did. And I thought to myself, they're working this guy too hard. I don't feel tired. You're on something I'll find this were. That he said, never say, you're torn because then you start feeling sorry for yourself. And if you start feeling sorry for yourself your finish. Wow. That's fantastic. I feel sorry for myself. I just thought of a really good Frank for your for your publisher, which is call your, your publisher up and say, I'm done with the working tour. And I was going to get back to work on Lyndon Johnson. But I just had a quick inspiration gonna write a I'm just going to spend a year or two on a biography of Conan O'Brien. No. Heart attacks. He really seems like a fantastic interesting character I wanna go live in Brookline, Massachusetts, and talk to people who knew him and find out what kind of ruthless CAD this guy was that'd be a fun prank. And I would enjoy it. I think I have held you here long enough against your will I reiterate to anyone listening do yourself a favor, you can get working it's out there right now. It's if you're interested in writing in the writing process, and it's terrific rate, it's working by rubber Carro and to yourself, never favor. If you have not checked out Lyndon Johnson book start with, with path power, and you'll be enthralled or the powerbroker about Robert Moses, and it's just, I think the best buy graphical writing of our time or anytime I really believe that. But again, I'm a comedian. So I have no. This means anything to you. Thank you so much for doing this. It's one of the great honors of my life. Thank you. It was great to hear. There's some products that I can't talk about enough products that I believe in so much that seriously. I have to talk about them again. And again and again until people get it and one of those fracture. Seriously? You may have heard me talk about fracture before, but I'm gonna go at it again because I don't think you get it. I really don't think you're listening to me. Everyone out there who's listening right now takes photos and you share photos. Good for you took a boo food, or Buddha, which on paper, look mind, my phone good for you. Who cares? That's what everyone does what their photos, not fracture. These Princeton fracture makes are made by printing directly on glass. You're writing this down directly on glass, and then your photos on glass, and you can display it, and it's on glass, even includes a wall hangers, you can hang up on the wall and see that it's glass there. Cool. Okay. They sent us one. It was really amazing. The prince made in Gainesville. Florida place. I can't talk enough about Florida. I do. And my favorite part of Florida's. I said is Gainesville so spring, you mentioned spring? And, you know, I did Eason. Yeah. You didn't mention it, though. I did it. Yeah. It wasn't spring time of refreshing and renewal fracture encourages you to refresh your walls. They did there. Yeah. Shelf space this spring. With the moments that matter most to you by putting your photographs on glass March twentieth through April. Four safe. Twenty percent on all print sizes. I'm telling you, we got one of these fantastic. Yeah. And when I got it, I said, I remember you said, you'll probably wanna talk about this a couple of times. And I'll say Sonal gonna wanna talk about this many, many, many times 'cause fracture put your photographs on glass and it looks awesome. And I'll fight. Anybody uses that it doesn't look awesome. Because it does. And no one says that because it always looks awesome. Visit fraction dot com slash for special discount on your first order. Don't forget to pick. Brian needs a friend and their one question survey. One question survey time for survey. It's one question, okay? Overtime after checkout to tell them who sent you. Frank. For me dot com slash Coenen. Don't blow it fracture. They know it. It's time for another segment. Avoid smells. And I wanted to do this one, especially in Sonus defense. Because do you remember the voicemails, we did where someone called in and said that you were mispronouncing, Freddie? Mercury. Yes. Yeah. I remember and, and again and talked about my heart. Geez. You have our geez. It's not your fault. We were raised, but jeez, are very hard very hard. And do you remember. He said that he never mispronounces anything. Yes. I really don't. Will you play a voicemail number seventeen? Not calling out Conan says Saturday Night, Live center, live, not Saturday Night, Live under night. He's is Christ. First of all, I worked there, I guess this guy also worked there. I don't think he did. He did assuming if he's correcting my pronunciation of Saturday Night Live, then kits and it's just it. Yeah, because I worked on just explain for such right? Because I'm in the right here. Everyone who works at SNL when they say it for real called San life. That is a thing that we do that is like we're in the club people who are outside the show, who have never worked there. Call college Saturday Night, Live, ask anybody who's ever worked there where you work and they'll say laugh, I don't buy that. I don't buy this for a second. It's true. And I will tell you why few people know this, but. Learn Michaels who created the show is famously from Toronto, but people don't know that he was born in Louisiana and grew up there as a little child. And so he has a little bit of a southern Louisiana twang. So when Lauren called me up and asked if to be a writer, there, he said, would you like to come join us on Sarah alive? No. This is absolutely. Absolutely true story now. No, I swear to God. Now you're not gonna hear this allied. If you talk to Lauren it only comes out when he says they're not live. And sometimes he says, would you like to join me because mostly he talks like this. And it's like that poten- whenever he says the name of the show, he goes, and it's just his Louisiana roots coming out, but he says, you know, we had a really good time and Chevy. Chase was there. And it was really good at San and. No. This is true. And then I'll tell you something else every now and then it comes out if he offers you something to drink, he'll say, like, would you like some wine, would you like maybe some bourbon or would you would you like a gin and tonic? Or would you like would you like sweet? He says, sweet tea gotta those are these are all real things. So first of all, that guy can get on his go fuck yourself. Well, it's just that guy will can you play number twenty three as well like this on any Renate on, and I thank you me about the very funny way you pronounce dot her gay night. Oh my God away. I can't quite. Listen to it, and then it would be helpful if he would lane. Sorry night. I can't do it. It's not. Something else win. Can I because this is a waste of time. Carving, right. Do it anyway. Listen, how you saying you helped me under twenty talk when a stupid thing Renee finish. Let Rene finish. Okay. Well, this is just infuriating. Because I did you notice that she just said Dana Carvey, does it to why curve does it too 'cause he's in the club. Okay. We are a small society of select individuals who worked on alive. God and look, so dumb. It is not dumb. So you can play. I don't understand Gowrali if I can call Garelli my name is it, though, a name God, what is gory? Got a case of the Gorey's sounds like I have I don't know. We can't get into it right now. Kind of rash. Gun gory on you. Listen, when challenged I lash out like any animal. And when not jealous lash out even more like a really sick animal. You can play as many as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Lorne Michaels was born in louisian-, and he invented San alive, and I'm happy to take these questions and give you the answers. But if you guys are then going to sit around and say, fake news, I'm gonna sit right here and say, fake news, because I'm on the web, and Lorne Michaels was born in Toronto Ontario Canada. You don't think Lorne has the ability and the power of the most powerful people in the business Lauren likes the myth that he came down from the north. Okay. Okay. And he loves this whole concept that he descended from the north. It's, it's very game of thrones. He came from the north. He came down to house hitting house. Lancaster came. He came down south and winter's coming in the wall. That's over Lawrence, or learn mythology house lettuce not up north. I see you didn't read the books. You're going to be fine. Anyway. The point is this. No, no, sorry, grow. We'll do it your way if even real name. But. And I want to make this point -serily learnt doesn't want people knowing he's from Louisiana do the math. So. I just don't understand. Why him calling it Saturday this nation invented the show? So you just the way you pronounce Saturday. I'm calls live, and you know what? Sorry if you don't understand the concept of respecting your boss. You also doing differently. You're not saying Saturday Night Live you're saying Senate not getting really like I don't know. It's happening. Sing it exactly the way it should be said sound out live. And sometimes I play around with a little bit because I'm a jazz artist. You know, I'm a big jazz fan and play a lot of jazz, my spare time. Yeah. So okay, what's never played jazz? You haven't seen me play this. I don't know what's happening, but you can't pronounce Saturday Night Live properly. That's what this is. No. And you are richest. Guess what? You just proved you can't pronounce Satloff correctly is part of the club. And so I like everybody else would work doing pronounce fatter day nightlife, sorry, because you were correcting my pronunciation, I'm sorry. I thought you weren't there. No. I was wondering what years you were there? Did you character? That's what you did French. Character. Do your French character gonna do? My French character your values. Over do your valley. No, I'm completely sober right now. Those come out when I'm. What the heck was that? Fascinating that actually within grail was that those are the China of care. What was that you having a massage on do not disturb on this laptop, I should have said. So you're the guy that lectures us. Lakewood children about put your phone on airplane mode. That's terrific gnashing out at everybody right now. You are so angry that someone called you out for pronouncing a word and crackly. 'cause you call me out all the time, and now you're yelling at will you're calling girly disease. I am not Ashi me what I worked at Saturday. I. I hate. I hate to be criticized for being right. I don't like to make you guys feel bad that we're in a special cool club that causes sign out, live appreciate that. And that concludes another episode of commend Brian's for. You work here at my pleasure. He worked here. You're doesn't may. You know, if I wanted you gone girly, it would take maybe thirty five phone calls. And then I'm sure it'd be a few months, and then it'd be paperwork. But eventually you'd be gone. So you may have already started that really. This podcast works can I just put something else out there and I'm not reaching pity here. I really not. But if you don't believe, in, it is absolutely true story about Lauren being from Louisiana and it being a secret club and people in the know Cohen, it's life. If you don't believe that consider the possibility that I have a neurological element. Listen, I know and I want to make something clear that I grew up in a large family, and I developed a little bit of teasing rough and tumble style with money siblings, but I don't want it misunderstood Sonal you know that I love you. I think you're fantastic. We've been friends besties for longtime second older, brother. I never wanted. Exactly. And Gowrali you know that I respect you a great job at the podcast and I'm one day, committed to learning first name, I know that that's the process that takes awhile and look into it, and find out hunted down. But I don't want anyone out there listening to think I really don't you know, I don't like these people or that I wanna give them a hard time. I that's my way of communicating and I just want people out there to know how much both of these people mean to me. And though, that this is all yes. What is its own waiting? Yeah. I'm waiting waiting for the hammers going to the thing. You hammers gonna fall. I think there's an there's always a thing following I was being sincere. But do you think now that we called him out that he was going to drop the hammer? But then once we said that he's going to take the high road say, no, I was being sincere because every time he compliments you're like it sounds sincere. And then it's followed by something that it's just really just painful. No, I sincerely respect both of you and I love the work that you do with me here on this podcast. And I think we make a great trio, and that's all there is to say on that subject, and then you'll say like the thirty percent you give this job is really valued. Thirty percents little high. And if it weren't for your beard, met we'd so. And so, yeah, you really good thing. You're not in the business of insulting yourself. Really? To show us not my character, I like to build people like to build people up by playing your your on a hunt. Constant search constant search for voicemails of someone who can criticize me. There are very, very few, but oh, you'll find the kindly gory. Number five. Coenen money, Kyle sitting here with my friend Alex, and we're just having a conversation about a caveman. People with abnormally large goals. Exact brave men with big skull. But a picture of you come in the images. And I feel like something, you might want to know you have a good day. I'm not offended at all. Because having a large cranial volt, I'm flattered and I'll say it again. A large cranial vault, as a sign of intelligence. So maybe this is proof that on the most highly evolved person of our species anyone buying this. Can I get that water? I'm so thirsty. Big you listen. I, I hope we cleared some stuff up today. Do we just quickly recap? It's pronounced that. And also, I have a large skull, I think we're learning. Yeah. Alert skull, but is proportional to my very large body my limbs, and various parts or quit oversized. Let's get out there. What can you recap the part where you complimented us? Yeah. No, I think we got. Conan O'Brien needs a friend was sonum of session, and Conan O'Brien as himself produced by me, Matt Gourley executive produced by Adam Saks, Jeff Rossa team CoCo, and Chris, Bannon and Colin Anderson at ear will special thanks to Jack white for the theme song incidental music by Jimmy iovine him. Our supervising producer is Aaron blared and the show is engine neared by will back to you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts, and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question for Conan call the team CoCo hotline at three two three four five one two eight two one and leave a message it to could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien needs a friend on apple podcasts wherever find podcasts or downloaded. Cocoa. Production in association with Newell. Hi everyone. Scott all comment here, host of comedy, bang, bang, a little podcast that is celebrating its tenth anniversary. Wow. Ten years of comedy bang, bang. That is incredible. And we did something, very, very special for the ten th anniversary episode. The episode is ten hours long. That's right, ten hours for ten years. Wow, here interviews with CB favorites like Jon Hamm weird, Al yankovic, Adam Scott Chelsea Peretti. There'll there and wonderful people who've come through the doors like Lord, Andrew Lloyd Webber, my nephew Todd so many more. We also have guests ranging from our very first episode with Tom Lennon, and rob Hubel all the way to new favorites like rudimentary north and entreprenuer so many great people there, so many great guests on the episode, I think you're really going to enjoy. 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Lyndon Johnson Conan O'Brien Senate New York City Mr Robert Caro Texas publisher Robert Moses Frank Robert Caro Bill Samsung Johnson city John Florida New York Times Johnson ranch sprint president Donald Trump