5 Episode results for "John Vanish"
The Hardest Things YOU'VE Ever Done In A Game
"Welcome Dr Doc. You split screen the video game. PODCAST wishes they'd kill off a few more corporate mascots. It's January twenty third two thousand twenty and we've got a reader mail spectacular for you this week. I mentioned league over the gains. We've been playing from pokemon shields played tail innocence. And some of my final spoiler free thoughts on Disco Louisiana then opened the mailbag to read a bunch of our listeners. Hardest one gaming aiming achievements with tales from Ninja Guidon destiny hollow night astral chain left for dead in Tarzan the video game. Yes Tarzan the union. Because I with another movie. PODCAST recommendation condition some thoughts on uncut gems. James Cameron's Avatar. It's going to be a fun one. Stick around and welcome back to Kentucky split-screen. My name is Kirk Hamilton. I'm so glad that you're are here. I'm also so glad that my co host is here. That Co host of course is maddy. Myers hello matty Hello Kirk. It's me nice to see and it's only me me that is that's all you get today. That's true so for the next few weeks Jason. China of course is on a leave. He's finishing his book and taking care of his child and living. His distractions no distractions from either of those things noting. This show saying he is distracted by you know like maybe deming us about yeah. No that definitely hasn't happened. We haven't heard from him. It's like John Vanish from the face of the earth. So it's you and me this week. We're doing split-screen. We'll I'll have some guests on. I think over the next few episodes though. We're going to be reading a bunch of listener emails on this episode. which fun be great it is it is going to be great eight you guys yeah? Listeners had a lot of a lot of tales of triumph triumph versus the mall. I'm really excited for them sarcastic. But it's not it was very uplifting to read all these emails so they were good. Hopefully we'll get through all of them on the show but that is for later. First of all we're GONNA talk about the game. We're playing but first a few things did you see. Did you see that Mr Peanut died. I did I did see that. I didn't see anything else about it but I did see that Mr Peanut died and I don't know all right I I you know I so I don't like Mr Pena. I realized this when I saw this I just never liked the guy with this fucking monocle. He just seems kind of like Lord of industry or something right right right. Yeah Down Down with Mr Peanut right dad with brands and their marketing schemes. Exactly what Kirk Hamilton says to all of this. That's me me and I kinda class. They don't believe in the system man. I think this is weird I'm curious now. It raises some questions. This is going to be an answer. Apparently the super bowl I did see. There's a tweet from Patrick Monahan. That's been going around on twitter. Saying Mr Peanut isn't hell. He spent decades as a smiling face of a company that sold the boiled interested corpses of his his people as a snack which is fair. I think accurate so there is that it's always it's it's like how the EMINEM EMINEM's properly terrified at the prospect of it. Don't don't ask me to cite that in any way I couldn't like give you an example of how that's that's true but there's just have an aura about them that says no they're doing it under duress whereas Mr Peanut seemed really happy about Asian anytime the mascot for a thing is the thing that you're going to be eating like this is like A. Oh man okay. I'm thinking this through. I feel like there are M ads. Where the EMINEM 's get scared of being eaten which sort of perverse like whoever pitched that ad campaign must've been like? Don't worry it'll work people don't think about it too hard and they'll still have. Im's uh-huh but I'm thinking about that Chick-fil-a like ad campaign where the cows right where the cows. They're not eaten. Yes yeah man. ADS are weird. You know we could just have a whole show about how weird ads are weird as especially ads for food. I'm wondering what other brands might die like. Do you think that. Like sonic or Mario uh-huh could die. Like Nintendo could just announced Luigi died. I thought gee immediately that's true. You're wasn't technically intentional. That was like part. Take the advertising campaign for Luigi Manchester. It's just funny. And everyone seized upon it and talked about how Luigi so that was a AH chasing her an article right our our. AP Luigi whatever year to twenty one thousand nine or whatever. I don't remember when we was born. I'm sorry I haven't haven't memorized that. Fact isn't Nintendo hundreds of years old. So I think so I think Luigi is like many thousands of years old so it was actually quite sad when he died perhaps kind end of ageless major like an epochal shift early for everybody. I forgotten about Louis Dying. That's a very good point that's similar. There is some video game news. We should probably talk to. There's not a ton of news so we're GonNa talk about games and read. A read mails from people. A couple of pieces of news wellbeing piece of news is another big delay in that. Is that Dying light to again that I'm actually very excited for sequel to the very good dying late one one of those games that sort sort of flew under the radar but is like an excellent game. Just got better and better. Every time I was like for it is now delayed. I think indefinitely. They're just like it's not coming out guys coming coming out in the spring. This thing is hard to make. WE'RE NOT GONNA put a year on it. We're just going to say right. Wait wait for it. You know. It'll be good we promise so. That's another delay. It seemed like it does seem like this. Spring has kind of changed. Yeah like there was it. Was this vibe of like okay with cyberpunk especially hanging over everything this feeling of. Oh God we have this brief three month period to catch up on stuff we missed from last year and then I should just going to go crazy. And it's just GonNa be wild all the way until the Newcastle's come out at the end of the year. Yeah but now. It's maybe not so much that I mean final fantasy and it's kind of like well. Maybe it'll be chilly. Maybe we'll just play do maternal for a really long time really enjoy it really. Enjoy the heck out of Yeah I'm kind of on board with that with more time to play things like I'm enjoying already taking this time to catch up on things and save will be good and then final fantasy I was. It's just like a month and like they can take as long as frigging need on cyberpunk Jillian hours long. It is so yeah. I'm all right with that. I do want to point readers the to another article that will make them feel somewhat conflicted about their favorite hobby. Yeah which is sort of what we're all about here is split. Screen is both celebrating Games. And making you weird about him. The less cool things about how they're made on Jason Publish this good article before he left about crunch and delays days. And how. It's easy to look at a delay and think. Oh Great. Well that means they won't have to crunch and there have been times where I'm thinking. I think maybe Bungee did this. And I don't know if this is like true or not in this specific case but we're developers will say over delaying the game because we don't want to kill all the workers getting done for this but the the truth matter is really that in a lot of cases Jason points out in this article and all the people talk to link this and shuts. It means. You're going to crunch for like this whole in been crunching to try to make the deadline. And now you're gonNA bring you. which is you've yeah so so you know? It's not as simple as that. Obviously also not everyone crunches the same and they're probably times where they say no. We really do want you to not kill yourselves doing this. So hopefully you know as well hopefully what becomes okay for delays to last longer I guess could crunch less even while they're trying to continue to Polish game or maybe we all just accept that games take longer to make are more expensive to make as a result in. That's just not going to happen. That would mean games would be more expensive and that'll never happen. You know I think I started with hopefully maybe I can analysts on a more. No I tried to do it too. I can kind of get their weight. I can get there so so I do think okay. So as the as the audience of like just your average Gamer has has become more aware that a delay is a good thing like every time a game is delayed. Now I'll see people acknowledging like. Oh this is good. This will make better. That's not really tied to labor conditions or anything it's just like an acknowledgement that crunch there. Sorry that delay means the game is going to be better. That is like a shifting perspective among the general populace. And that's nice to see. I would agree with that. As opposed to just the disappointment appointment that I feel like I used to see it would just be like Oh really changed so if that can shift may be other things can shift as well like it is. It's nice nice to see changes any point because I think the way we think about and talk about the way these Games are made is probably doesn't need to change does need to be something. More people are aware of so. That's helpful and and a good article to read so go check out Jason's article about that and one other piece of news. And that is that there is a witcher anime movie coming out on Net flicks and it just discussed about it. You haven't watched the witcher yet. I haven't yet I I would like to. It's good you know why. Why have it be an anime? Why that why? I think it's going to be like a standalone thing like it's just a movie and the show is so good. Why not have it be different? The thing that's animated right. I think the since the show is basically adapting the books and is kind of doing like an existing stolen imagining at some point. They'll go off on their own thing but right. Now they're just book adaptations. I think the movie is going to be a whole original story. Totally separate from the hilarious in and of itself. It's like well we just adapted the witcher. What if we adopted it again in a completely different format but like right away like we're not gonNA wait a couple years? Apparently it's this huge hit for Netflix. Like watching it and people are like. It's like one of their most I think they said it's like their most successful original premier ever which is cool I disliked that the witcher this like ultra through a nerdy thing that I'm really into is now like suddenly in the case like yeah everyone's talking about it like people are really into it and that makes me very happy. They actually released the Song I put. The I played this song. Toss a coin to your which are like gestures behind when I was talking about that last last night but that's is frigging total earworm. It gets smash hit. Everyone is saying yeah including me and I haven't even seen the show catches song and it gets stuck in your head forever. Tosa coin to your which o'malley of Bull Valley you've plans. Oh Toss to coin to your whole valley. It's like in my head right now. They finally just put it out on streaming services so it's like on spotify and apple music which it's amazing. It wasn't ready to go. They didn't know they didn't know they had head on their hand ad. which is the minute I heard that Song Banger? This rate hike. Why can listening to the crappy low resolutions on Youtube Youtube? Yeah I'M GONNA say I'm GonNa say one piece of criticism of the recording kind of wish. They'd remixed it because I do think the vocals Kinda get lost behind the other instruments Once they all come. I'm in this weird like it's I think it's because it's the same mix that plays on the show. Yeah but they should have panned things would have been cooling her like a studio mixed. Because he's he's got a lovely voice the actor who plays Chaska and like he just he just kind of gets lost in the second half and that's when the song is really rocking to and I'm like bring it up bring up so maybe they'll remix sitters. Maybe they'll put out the stabs uh-huh and people can do as opposed to the fan released. Folks it is such a funny function that that because that's on wasn't on spotify and apple if you look on spotify there's like six thousand covers of it like everyone who does covers video-game songs is that there's so many versions of it. There's like a heavy metal version and like all these different people. That Guy Peter Hollins is like has a Cappella version all these versions and it's really hard to find the original because the search results. But I'm sure now it's rocketing to the top of the charts because I'm sure sure I'm sure because people love it. It's a great song okay. So let's let's let's get into the Games. Were playing I. I played a few and I think you go I. I'll go first so I finally tried out. Poke them on shield of pokemon sword and shield fame playing the one with the shield in it or the one where the POK mon dog dog. Legendary pokemon dog has a shield. This game is cool it. It's weird to be playing it now. Many months after all of the controversies about the game unfolded which take s I'll recap and knows nothing at all about these controversies so this game does not have every single. Poke them on that has ever existed in Pokemon game. mm-hmm in it. They're just not all their phone. I is that that's a first for the series. I could be wrong about that but I think in the past passed it. They're always all their or their all. The important ones are there. It is controversial that many especially very well known poke him on or not not in this one and instead there are a whole bunch of other totally new. Po came on in it that are pokemon from the gala region. which is like this fictional sort of UK? Okay ask region where your characters from and it's kind of like you know pokemon Scotland and. You're you're going around meeting completely new. Poke them on. And it's adorable but you can't go around and catch a scored alert. Whichever ones aren't in it and that's wrong? That upsets people and so there was this huge controversy Chrissy for a while with this game where people were very upset that not every single pokemon ever was in it and last month I think the they announced that they would be putting out a deal. See soon that will include allowing pokemon and some other stuff except you do have to either your pay for the D. L. C. More trade with other people who have been as poke Amman in order to get everything and so. That's kind of a controversy. But it's also kind of a redemption story where people are reacting to the game now by being like well. Maybe now I'll get it now that I can actually have all the poke him on that. I feel that I'm owed food and I've been watching that from afar and the other thing that's happened with this game is that people have analyzed it. A lot from the vantage point of is the game good enough to merit the fact that not every single poke him on is in it because it was like a trade off right them right was like well the game is going to look look very good. Look better than other POK MON games or better than other procam on games and other respects and we're just really focusing on making sure these new pokemon look good. Then that's what we're prioritizing in terms of development time and that meant that there were a lot of people who analyze this game very intensely tensely and we're like it's not good enough to make up for the fact that not all. The POLKA monitor in there does this have enough objective quality points for the number of Pokemon. That are Mrs so I went into this game. I didn't realize I was doing this but I went into this game. Assuming it was going to be bad like I didn't think I was doing that right but I realized that so much. That had permeated me that my expectations were on the floor for this game. And so as a result I actually think it's amazing incur. Nice standards should have been seeing like angry youtube videos being like the graphic sock in this game like it looks like Shit and and so I'm planning on like looks really good like this like you're you like the first things you do. Are you and your rival. Get lost in this relief. Foggy argued forest for a while and it looks gorgeous and there are these trees that look amazing and like usually you don't have cool background in game three yes or something right. Yeah I think you just don't really have that but now it's on the switch and I mean pokemon. Let's go is on the switch. But he played that recently. It didn't look back better where the houses are so adorable. They're like little gingerbread houses. And you're like walking around Scotland. There's a little castle and the castle is like a polk Amman Center. And you're like Oh yeah fire in Scotland there like a castle. That would be a focus on Saturday. That's I don't know I'm I'm loving it and I guess it's just if you go in and with really low expectations you can really really enjoy pokemon game but the other thing is that. I'm also realizing that I like it that I don't know. Oh who any of the POKEMON are like almost every pokemon that you meet so far anyway and I'm only a few hours in is pover- seen in my life before like it's a lot of like new ones and I'm like that's fun. I don't know what these guys do. I don't know what their attacks are going to be. Like and like how they're gonNa work and that's fun to me and I'm not sad just not sad about any any of the same thing you've played pokemon. Do you have like a polk him on that you love. That's kind of always your go-to I guess. I you know when I was a kid. I was into into peak at you and charter manager because I was a child and I watched the anime and I was like they're cute and I'm just like etch catch and I'm eleven years old or whatever so like that matter to me on some level but as an adult I'm just like I don't have a favorite pok on really. They're all very cute. The point is just. You're collecting collecting things. And you're looking at your shiny digital collection and being like a high of now collected all of these freshest items don't really matter and so I don't I don't I don't I just don't have the same feelings about pokemon that other people do. It's also been years since I've actually beaten Pokemon game so like what I do is like it's like the perfect game for like you're listening listening to a podcast in the background or you're watching. TV Show in the background. Then Mount of brain power. That you need for Pok Mon is right if if you're me if you really want to math it out and like you know use your statistician powers than you can make pokemon very difficult and impressive for yourself myself. But I've never played it that way. It's just like the dopamine rush of collecting stuff for me and and that's it so so I have a couple of questions or one of first of all. I know the answer to this question. But I'm going to ask you. What is the name of the controversy related to the POLKA DEX? It's called decks it. Yes so I've been thinking about this because it was called degs because the polkadot Franks it right and then I've been thinking about how you know. How like Prince Harry and Meghan Markle or leaving the royal family and that's all it is this like the way that Watergate now? Everything is a gate everything remotely related to the the UK has to some exile question so my question is twofold one. Is it just that anything related to something. Leaving will now have like a briggs it joke or is it that because this is sort of set in a pokemon version of the UK. It feels more appropriate to call the Dick's I think it's both like it's a a double whammy but it's also just horrible but that is the name that people have chosen because Brexit is like this political just should be really like. I don't know how else to describe that. It's very sad to look at the politics of that and the POLKA decks getting smaller is I mean for some some people it is a tragedy on a similar scale and to those people. I hope you're okay but I don't it is I can't really I tell if it's a joke. I mean I think that's the other problem with knowledge. Graefin rewrote some pretty great articles about Pokemon. After it came out and she wrote one about degs it and and just basically about article Nicole was like her listing off a million other things about the game. That are really enjoyable and then like some other things that are worth complaining about. That don't have anything to do with the bookie decks and just being like. Can we replace talk about any other things that happened in this game other than simply the fact that the POLKA DOTS is smaller than it has been or even smaller than you expected it it to be. I don't even think it's smaller than previous games. Because they've added all these other new Pokhran so that even that measurement of it is sort of absurd but yeah. I don't know oh I guess I've just been thinking about it. In relation to Jason's article about delays too. Because after the deal was announced a lot of people were like well. Why didn't they just say this all all along that they were GonNa make this Chelsea and that eventually all the pokemon would be added and I don't know the right answer is to that like with things have been different if people knew all along that there was going to be a DLC DLC a few months later but that they would have to pay extra for it like who knows it strikes me as one of those can't win scenarios? This is interesting this is this is a tangentially and generally related but this reminds me of the thing that just happened in destiny. which is this gun that everybody solved this big puzzle to get and I promise there's going to be a parallel here? Sanjay anyway to destiny so it. Was this really wild puzzle that everyone was trying to solve like on the level of like outbreak. Perfect outbreak prime. Some of these really crazy like there. It's like a puzzle labyrinth literally hundreds of thousands of people have to crowd source to solve and it took like a week and then when they solved it. They unlike this exotic a fusion rifle I think and it's a gun that was on the calendar for the game so people knew it was coming and then that made it just kind of disappointing because there's like oh so we're just like unlocking a thing early that we already knew was coming instead of. Oh you know it's the middle class from your from the first game some really exciting surprise. It's a little similar more where it's like if you tell everyone what you're doing you lose a little bit of that narrative in that excitement but yeah what's coming within the also then they get expectations around it so I I don't know yeah like I wonder if game thought originally like Oh if we save this then people are going to be so excited when we announced the DLC being like oh all your old favorites are now going to be his game him. That didn't have them before. And like that'll be exciting for people but they probably didn't estimate just how many people would be as upset as they were about the initial roll out of the game so lessons learned. I guess but I don't know the lessons exactly were other than that. Sometimes people who like gave get upset about things the are hard to understand and that is hard to predict. And you're doing game marketing kind of feel for you because I don't know how you wiggled this one well anyway. Skirt sounds like it's fun. Do you think you'll finish this one. I don't know probably not. I'm enjoying it though sell products player for a while. We'll see we'll see how I do. I do still want to be disco alesia which I hear the you have is that it. Okay okay finished it. We're going to do a spoiler on it when you finish. You can take your time because we want Jason to be here for it too so it won't be for a few more episodes played pokemon. Oh come on because I was like Jason I thought about it though then I was i. I've had this kind of soft rule of playing game to completion before going to another one and I didn't WanNa whatever I'm just gonNA stick with that it's been good. I'm going to stick with it so I decided to finish it but yeah I might have to start a new game. Maybe here's something before Jason comes back just so that I kind of get it back in my ahead like that game has a certain rhythm to it and it's so dense I'm already you know there's so many things I've forgotten from when I played it because I'd seen playing it more recently than you and there are things in the world of that game that I barely understand it takes like if I played it a second time I might finally understand the politics of revenue. Call Reva Jack or like the the religion like. Who's Doris Day and this they've really done some real building? There's the amount of world building that game is crazy so I guess I'll give some quick impressions and that that it's amazing. We already know that this game is is great and I really loved it. I loved the ending. I don't don't actually share I don't WANNA put words Jason's now but he was a little disappointed with the way that it ends is sort of not what he was expecting from a like mystery solving elving sort of point of view. And I'll be really vague here. Don't worry no spoilers But I actually really liked it. I thought the ending worked very well. For what the game was and and I think it just sort of revealed what the game really was to me in a way that I thought was really cool. Someone I was talking about this on twitter. Someone pointed out to the obsolete. New are first and foremost. It's more Dr. And it follows the big sleep and brick the idea of the story kind of just happening to the protagonist and the mystery unfolding unpredictable ways which is sort of like north the way that subverts the idea of law and order style. Who done it? The Christie whodunit. Where you're just like piecing together clues and solving a mystery? It's not that it's is totally. Not actually that interested in like who killed the guy like. That's not what the game's about and this has to have been in a review somewhere but my thing is like it's not the WHO done it. It's a WHO am I like the question that it's asking which is like the kind of thing right that a game like it is is true of the game and I think that there are a lot of times where I'll be like well. What was the deal with that character? And then I'd be like I need to think of this more on a metaphorical like literary level and and then I'm like. Oh okay totally. I understand why this character exists. This character is because they represent something out in you there a reflection of the protagonists of Harrier whatever every decide to name him and yeah. It's a great game one of the great protagonists like video games. Ever just because you can make him into so many people but he's also so defined signed by his own psychological trauma in real life like he's very specific character but also someone that you can make into whoever you want and also Kim Serology his partner is such a good character. Like it's great. His presence in the game is just fantastic. Got It so good. So I'm really excited as you. A spoiler cast. I think we'll probably talk I. I could talk forever about the scheme but I'll save the rest of it for them so now that I finished that. Let's so I have been. I've been SORTA breaking my rule little by playing a little bit more of the witcher three. I just kind of been. I'll just be like I'm bored. I have twenty minutes to his side. Quests in this game I've been playing that game playing more Gwen Kinda like wrapping up the part on Skela. Go where you're figuring out. Who is going to be the next ruler of Scalia? The answer to that is serious. Obviously anyone who's played the game will know why that's true but I need to make sure that she gets you know gets to take over Won Only one observation in that game and that's the difficulty has gotten really weird because I'm on new game plus level scaling early on enemies and the difficulty in that game gets kinda weird anyways like it's really hard to find a difficulty setting that works right like I'll take a ton of damage if I get hit I'm playing on the second earnhardt blood and broken bones but then I do so much damage with my sword. It's like I have the most up to date which is just like one. Hit almost everything to hit these. He's all like do a big which contract and it's this huge lesson like this crazy. Woodland Monster comes and I'm just like each hid is doing a giant chunk of its health and I kill it in like five of seconds and I'm like well that was sort of antics so what I've done is I've gone and gotten old swords like out of storage from before new game. Plus I'm I am using those. And they do like way less damage and it Kinda works. Sound like wearing up-to-date arms. I take less damage but the swords are weaker. And it's kind of like I'm paying reversed I do's for using the infinite the infinite knife in resident evil now like okay. Yeah you're making the game harder for your sexy civic way right using being like tools. which is? I don't know it's kind of an interesting thing that you have to do that. Game has weird difficulty stuff going on fully hard to find a good balance. That's working working. Yeah but it's still a good game and the witcher man so hot right now Okay so then. The other thing the thing I've been playing that's new that I can tell people. Some impressions of is a plague tail innocence. So what do you know about this game. I'm curious a little bit. I mean you talked about it last week and branch a couple articles on Kotoka dot com about what it's it's like we all call it the gross rat game. That's what we call it. Yes kind of. It doesn't really serve the game well to call it back because it's also like a dramatic tragic intense feelings game. It's actually a pretty accurate to describe. Rat game is it's brand so they are and that's that really is because that's the thing that the game has got to me feels like the most defining in new aspect so yeah let me read the rats. They're in dishonored other games. Have this now. This is a little like. It's a little like dishonored. But you haven't seen rats rats like flow like water. I mean there are thousands and thousands and thousands of they're disgusting and and that is definitely the thing that we're we're never there's rats you're like okay this is it doesn't like So I'm kind of medium on it actually. I like it fine. Finish it but I'm not it's there are some something's about it that I am not as much as I thought I would but just given that I know some people would be like. Oh this is a low key one of the better games with last year. So what is your playing a girl. Oh she's like a like a teenager maybe in The fourteenth century in France. She's like a noble family and There's a weird monstrous kind of plague outbreak. And she and her little brother who's like five or six wind up on the run and it's a very bleak very dark it kind of story about them just doing whatever they can to survive and trying to figure out what's going on and it's like a science fiction fantasy rat plague realistic stick grab plague. It's yes fan yet. There's a fantastical element to it. And I don't fully know because I haven't finished it but like these rats like they're more they burst out of the ground like the locust horde like they're like they're and all these mechanics built around the rats but it's yeah and it's tied to your bloodline and there's some light curse like so there's stuff that's it's beyond just this isn't just like a gritty story of the actual great like but it's definitely like inspired by the actual plague. I I would imagine the people who made it did a lot of research and are like trying to accurately tell the story of the great playing and all these people who died and all the things that happened. There's a lot of imagery like recently. I went through a whole area where he was dead livestock everywhere. And it's really disgusting Lake pools of blood that you're like walking through and because they killed livestock because is the right was spreading through them yet. So it's got a lot of that imagery though. The story is like a fantastical adventure gameplay wise. It's mostly stealth game. There's some non-self but you're kind of sneaking sneaking around. You can't fight 'cause your kids and so like if you get spotted if a guy gets to you you're just dead so there's a lot of sort of you have a weapon. You have like a sling so you you can kill guys without a helmet on them. But it's got that very like you're only killing a few people at takes the killing very seriously. At least at first she's like Holy Shit. I killed a guy. It's it feels a little like the last of us in terms of tone. Also because you're you're you're holding hands with your little brother the whole time and you have to actually command him and keep him in place and then send it to do things and you get people will come help you out. So it'll be a team of three kids and you're like go over there and hold that lever while I hold this thing and like open this pathway. It is an interesting I game. It's very linear so far. And that's something that I love about it. It's like it feels very scripted. I haven't come into circumstances where I'm like. Oh there's a lot the different ways to tackle this which is usually what I like about. Stealth Games is because a self games at neutral in your outside of the system you can kinda poke and prod at it and move things around sounded like more about being outside of a neutral system than like call of duty where like this is really active in shooting it. You just have to get through it. This game is very just like okay here we are are. There's a torch here that guy is standing in the rats. You need to like distract him to the right and then go around to the left and like we've played some rocks for you right here because you're gonNA need Iraq to distract him. There's only one way to go around matter of waiting. The animations out or whatever right and the patrols are very okay exactly you wait. The end missions out a lot. So it's like okay. I can just tell her that guy's going so that's been a little disappointing only because the actual game play. I'm pretty checked out like I'm kind of just like this is easy. There's nothing to it the story's pretty pretty good like it's a little bit. What's the word I would use like like misery porn or something like it has a lot of like you're seeing really awful shit like just there's like you'll pull the door and the door open this? All these dead animals like come falling through it in a pile and there's like Gore and blood everywhere and then your characters are like crawling through the mud and they're just like Arkalyk in everyone's so it's Kinda got that really gnarly thing but it feels a little exploitative like I'm not offended by anything I'm feeling it's trying really much. It's trying really hard. Yeah it's like Oh look how fucked up everything is. I'm like But it's nice and the acting is good and it's very very earnest heartfelt. That's a cool story The thing is the rats though. This game could be a last June game and a lot of ways it feels like it's probably made on a pretty limited budget. It's it's really nice looking but like the environments are smaller very linear like. I said there's just not a lot of complex a or anything going on. This could probably have run on like an xbox three sixty or a PS three except for the rats and the rats are like definitely you can see this game and like someone made a prototype the rats and they were like this shit's Zan. Yeah exactly and Because it's totally the thing where the minute they come out and they like moving to see and it's like so gnarly looking at it they just look really cool and there's a billion of them and there's all these mechanics built around the rats will kill you instantly if a touchy but you have to like hold light so then there's all these mechanics where like you'll have a tourist with the torch burns out you need to delight whatever stocks of hey but the of burned down so you need to move faster and then you can light like a sort of hanging thing planes we have to swing it and then it swings in the light moves in the rats like go flying out of the way the lights and then you have to run underneath with the light to keep the rats from you so you can kind of use your imagination puzzle design you can and I watched Ratatouille you recently such a cool movie and one of your sympathetic to the rats now like one of these rats could have been Francis Greatest Chef Jeff. We'll never know because we're killing them. All Geez just think I mean anyone can cook even. It's so horrible. Plague murder ads but it does. This sounds really cool and I like that. They make the rats kinda gross in those scenes. Where like a sea of rats kind of goes through the kitchen? And you're like look like in the beginning when she the lady shoots the ceiling down on the ball and MILLION RATS so nasty like this game captures that feeling that. It's EXC run away and they're really like agro monster rats Kinda like their little but they're really aggressively move really fast and they're unpredictable and that's all really really cool and I feel like whoever made that work like definitely was onto something I I wish the game was just a little more open ended. That's mainly my complaint. It's just like I wish it felt a little more Yeah like there. Was this more thought involved in actually playing it. But it's it's fun to see the rats you know. Thought I'd say that about a game. I'm I'm going to finish it. I get the sense. It's kind of ten hour twelve hour kind of thing and it was like halfway through but I like it like I'm not crazy about it but I do like it and pretty cool. Oh all right. Well let's take a break and then we will read some listener mail about the hardest things. Our listeners have done in video games. Hello I'm Melissa Kirsch and I'm Alice Bradley. And we're the host of attackers podcast. The upgrade the upgrade is a show about all of the ways you can improve your life that means how to be happier and healthier more successful and more productive and just generally better in every way we talk about stuff like sex very few people are like please Jackhammer me for another forty five minutes psychedelics. You don't just go on the diving board when you're five years old and jump in the deep end because that would be traumatic and psychopaths giving you exactly what you need or want without. Maybe you being aware that you want it. You can find US wherever you get your podcasts breath all right and we are back so last week we got was this last week. Maybe two weeks ago on a previous episode episode time previously. I could talk you split screen and asked us what the hardest thing was that we'd done in video game and we gave some answers and then we asked all of you'd write us tell us and the hardest thing. Yeah that any of you have done and boy you came through. I think it turns out people like to talk about the hardest thing for video game last Bam plus station proud. It's great. We have a ton of emails. Here thank you. Everyone who wrote through wrote in. We're we're GONNA go through as many as we can. We might not get to all of them. If you're at any don't hear from us. We read all the emails. We couldn't respond to everyone because there were a lot but thanks so much for writing in and it was it was only fun onto your stories and this is actually about destiny. Which means I Kinda WanNa hear you read it Mattie? START US off. So this emails from Brandon who writes background INFO black spindle was an exotic sniper rifle with the white male perk industy. She got the weapon. You and your team of two others had to play a certain daily heroic emission which was only available one time in a rotation of many instead of finishing the mission normally normally you had to take an alternate path before certain door closed as you escaped the level wants through the door. You had ten minutes to clear three rooms of constant fallen enemies fonts aunts and boss that would pepper you with shots until you hit him enough for him to retreat to the next room. The first run was constant waves of fallen the second room had snipers captains pins and spider tank the third was room overfilled with ads and the boss driven chosen waiting to be killed. Even if you just kill the boss and if you didn't kill every last ad you've got nothing if the timer expires you got nothing. I can't tell you how many times both of these happened. I played so long. My regular fire team gave up and went to sleep. I continued trying the mission over and over with randoms for another five or six hours. Finally it was twenty minutes to the reset. I had no clue in the strike would come around as ROIC meaning. It could be weeks before another try. I played one last match with a couple of German guys who were waking up and playing the strike before they had to go to class. One guy didn't speak English so his buddy translated in real time as we thought we'd beat the mission with seconds to spare and less than a minute before reset. I tell people the proudest moments of my life where the birth of my two children but deep down I know they're really number two and number three. I love this story because I have this. I beat this. I think I wrote an article for talking. Do about this about the blacks middle. Tell Commission this exact mission which is so memorable to me as well as like brandon lays out exactly why so tell my story which is similar but but I will say yeah One friend of mine and I because I think that it was actually it scaled if you had two people or people so I think it was like it was doable with two because two US did it and I remember seconds left. I have a Gif of this and I was like at the boss with a sword. Swinging the sword at him and my heart was like dropping and I was like. Oh Oh my God and it was like we had three seconds left or something and he dies and like when he dies you get this amazing gun in it like drops into your inventory and it was. It was an incredible moment. And and yeah that really especially because like he says there's a weekly reset and if you don't beat it by then you don't know when you're GonNa get another shot and you're so invested because you've been trying it's like extra element makes it so much more stressful and awful thought. Amazing I mean that's like why the designed that way so that you get maximum stressed out and maximum psyched when you win. People still talk about blacks mental. That was definitely one of the greatest thing. Spongy is ever done in destiny. It was so cool like that it just without any fanfare this thing appeared. It's actually kind of because that gun was so exciting related super-secret people always want that high again and so when it's not as exciting reward. It's like okay. That wasn't that a school. Okay so look at this next section so we got several emails about Ninja Guidon and you and I talked a little bit about. Is it. Ninja Gaetan earnings guidance. We just don't know folks you can tell us the answer to that and I think it's Guidon but I don't know I think I think so too. That sounds cooler and I do feel like it does sound cooler. So let's go at that. I feel like it was like the kids who were cool and new stuff. When it was the thing would be would call an Ninja guidance and that was like that's what we'll call it Ninja Guidon so we have a bunch of emails here? I'm going to just kind of go through them and summarize them. Andrew writes that back in the day a he all of the original Ninja Guide for the XBOX for him. The hardest part was Alma. She's this demon who throws fireballs pills. Flying around says almost impossible to hit her. I I tried that bus two hundred times probably and just now is about to turn off the council never played again. I suddenly got in the zone and beat her with a significant amount of health left at the end of the fight after that the rest so the game was a comparative cakewalk. At this happens to me. Oh yeah like when you beat them your it looks like you're a frigging pro like don't even get hit like I feel like actor dying over and over and over again or or the situation where you're like. Oh I've just got to try this one more time and then for some reason that time it's easy or you've like giving yourself permission to stop. I playing the game. And that's what you need them do. Well anyway psychology of this is such an interesting party thing so I'll go through a few more of these also. This has beating Ninja Guide in an Xbox it was in many ways the precursor to secular. I think it was also. He doesn't say this but the precursor to neo also made that game but very similar J.. Also who says he is actually a different Ninja guidance. He says when he played for the any s this is Jay while we never beat it we did get to the final boss one day. The tragedy here wasn't that we lost the final bosses him and his friend play together. We would have expected that based on how hard the game was. Instead we pause the game and rand our friend and next door neighbor to show him the final boss. When we got back we found that our mom had turned off the game and change the cartridge to play? Tetris have no idea how five year old and eight year got. That guy didn't but I still feel like it was one of our biggest accomplishments and it took me a long time to get into tetris because of the incident. That's like the ultimate mom. Yeah it's funny that she turned it off to play a game though. That's very fake to me. She's like well. I WANNA play Tetris. I mean whatever his hard yeah. I'm GONNA play Tetris. I bought the Zinnias last. One comes from Georgia who also writes that his hardest moment in games would have to be Alma. Ah in the Vanilla version of Ninja Guide for the Xbox I got to the boss fight with one. Healing Item would probably need three to four. At least the original getting was very hard and not balanced. While in some areas it was laid. It was later balanced a bit injured in black but alma was one of the toughest boss battles I've ever fought. I walked away from the game for a month or two before coming back and committing myself defeating her. It probably took most of us Saturday or Sunday to finally get through her and her bullshit but it did fight but I finally did and it was one of those moments always remember and I've only follow similar way from the souls goals game ever since the souls games ever since Ninja got him. Black is one of my favorite games. Ever glad I got through that game and Vanilla and was ready for g black when it came out I have. I've seen aimed people discuss black versus Vanilla Ninja. Guidon I remember trying to get into it when I kind of I got back into gaming and I was like this I can't hang. I wonder if I'd like it now like now. It seems like it would be interesting for you to go back and try and now I was not at all of these emails. I feel like I'd be yeah. I'm good on this. I feel that way too. It's so fast I think it's it feel like I like neo and I liked the second row but there's so much faster than those games. I watch people apple play them unlike. Yo I can't I can't hang with this kind of game. Yeah why don't you are- Dave's email. I will this one reminds me of your witcher story from earlier. So that'll be fun Dave writes How about I scroll properly okay? Dave writes one of the hardest games. I've ever beaten is enslaved odyssey to the West on the hardest difficulty without upgrading. Any skills and without the use of monkeys long long range shot. I love this game but man it was easy so I played it on heart still too easy so I tried without any upgrades now. This was is getting somewhere then. I added the challenge of not using the long range ammunition which the game has many areas that are specifically designed for you to use a gauntlet of turrets proved especially difficult section. That required manipulating timing. On some of the turrets and perfect use of the regenerating shields there were one or two spots where the game makes you use the ammunition to open walter the next area or something but it was immensely rewarding to discover that the entire game can be completed without using one of monkeys two forms of attack. This is very funny to me and like this email very good. I love what I like is that he says at the end that he discovered this was possible so it was no going in and he's GonNa at work. This is the challenge people you know when they'll be like oh can you beat the game you know with whatever dark souls only punching and when you see someone to it once you have that knowledge the measure would make it easier. But if you didn't even know that would be pretty tricky. That's a game by the way. Enslaves I've always heard that I've always meant to check that out. It's neat it's like. It's it's the sort of oddly very good story adaptation of journey to the West rate. It's based on famous story. Yeah and like directed by Andy Circus. He yes Ashley Guy. It's it's an oddball Game Ninja theory like who made it. It's it's school. It's a yeah. It's like uncharted but good story. One of those games it didn't get a sequel that I'm like site. It didn't get a single. I feel like now people are no. Maybe there's no rumors I just saw someone talking about it online. Maybe like no no sequels. Let it be over. It's fine. It had a cool ending. It's fine all right let me read flakes. Email Blake writes. I achieved the nothing special achievement in the original left for dead on xbox three sixty the achievement requires you to complete an entire campaign with no survivors taking damage from any special infected. I'm sure there are ways to cheese now but my group of friends was going for legit and we would try several runs each night for for weeks. Sometimes we make it a few chapters in one person. We'll get scratched by hunter grabbed by a smoker. Or we get a horrid spot at the same time as tank one hit from any special effect in fact on any of your players required to restart also stressful things together. It was going and going really fast as what we found was the best way to do it. I still remember some of the insanely close calls. We hat on the run that we finally got love this so hard. I didn't know nothing special. Even an achievement is nothing special right and left for dead. What a good game wasn't there rumor? I think valve poured water on this that there was some really yeah. I didn't even hear that rumor so now I'm not disappointed. Disappointed that it's not true these left-footed to cool cool games. I'll read this next one. So Kenneth writes the hardest. The most rewarding thing I have done in gaming was beating the final boss in mega man. Zero on the gameboy advance. I was seven or eight at the time. This was the first and only game I had on the S P I I was trying to beat the final boss for days and finally was able to beat it at a barbershop waiting to get my haircut. I was overwhelmed once I beat it. There's just this pleasant. Simplicity to the sentence. I was is overwhelmed once I beat it. That just filled me with every feeling I had as a child whenever I like. Beat hard mario thing or whatever. The case may be just that overwhelm of like I don't even know what I feel right now this. I don't have that many Gabe I only have had. Yeah I like also picturing someone sitting at the barbershop like struck by this moment of most profound gaming moment ever while waiting to get their haircut. Yeah good all right. I'll read Greg's Greg's is about one of my favorite games of all time greats. I am cheating because we failed so this was not a gaming accomplishment but this is still the hardest thing Sue Greg writes I am cheating because we failed but my friend group was playing through a four player game of Devenir divinity original sin to on the hardest difficulty with permit death which is called honour mode. We played less than once a week for months until enact for someone turned valve to fill the room with death fog and ended the game. I do think getting that far is achieved enough. Though I I agree with you Greg Greg Rights. I don't think we'll have the patience to try again. But now in true frustrated dungeons and dragons player fashion we are playing we were playing as murder. hobos hardest difficulty not. There is no hard and fast rule but we are basically murdering everything in sight. How is this possible? Make no mistake. We are choosing hard cleared the first boat and are now working on for joy way. We will probably get soft lock soon but whatever my enjoyment of this multiple is on multiple fronts. First of all armadas crazy. That's like yeah if you die you're just dead and so hello and into this is fantastic. ISOMETRIC role playing game. I'm sure split-screen listeners. Know it but you can play for players and it's like going through a D. camping together. That would be a fun experience. I think even if you failed but the other thing I enjoy is that yet. This part of the appeal of this game is that you can. You can like approach you. You can come up with crazy broken builds and you can like really cheese it like you can isolate a boss and get them in a way that he can't even damage you kill him but that's kind of part of the fun of the game is like breaking it so light. They're like all right. Fuck this we're just GONNA murder everybody and until you come across. Yeah we're to exploit every possible like ability and we're just going to do so that seems like good a good way to kind of get some catharsis after randomly dying from death fog. which wasn't going to be that it was gonna be something else like? There's so much stuff like that. We cool all right so this next one is from me Guel. WHO's right? Who writes? I'm a fan of difficult games. Not because they're difficult. They just happened to be that way. Go back in the day. I played the original version of devil may cry three and I think it was pretty hard. I would agree with you. The most difficult thing I've ever played though et Cetera. I agree agree with Kirk. Junichiro is really hard and I think of him as kind of a threshold for the rest of the game but the final boss is in fact much more difficult the different phases the changing weaponry and attacks attacks. I think I achieved my quote unquote peak Gamer form during that fight and was able to beat it. I was even able to feel a fleeting sense of pride. It was so oh difficult that I don't think I'll ever be able to reach that level again. P. S. I'd like to say thank you to my girlfriend who saw me in that moment. Failure PECAN can can't reform movement and what what is the point of having a partner. Want you play a game. If they can't see you had peak game reform. I ask you that's true. That's true all the GonNa do this thing. I'm looking around because I feel like there was another email about that final boss fight and I wanna find all ever heard about and you'd never made it that far right. I also heard about how hard to find. Yes that was kind of why stop it. Got Really hard and I was like you know. What exactly doesn't let you do like the reason and this is? This isn't even like a confession but the reason I'm able to be like souls games is because I get so over level like the difficulty gets weird in those were they get easier in the second half because you can get easier if you grind it out if you have the right. You have the ability to become overpowered. And I'll totally get pretty powerful and I mean you know the final boss of bloodborne born is still hard like no matter how level up you are a tough fight. But it's not as hard as I would imagine the final fight integral because you can only level so much and then you just have to be good and it was hard to get as I got and I have heard of that. That final boss. I think it's a great fight in a certain way. Like if you have a threshold for that kind of just unbelievable challenge but like no way man. I still have time but I do. I do like That that story about it okay. So this next one is cool because it's trauma game that we didn't really talk much on the show that I know people like so this comes from Jordan. Who writes for me? The last secret boss of astral chain may have been the hardest artist thing I've accomplished in a video game. I think. Put It over ten hours over a single week for a single boss fight now to put it in perspective. I'm usually a completion. EST when it comes to these types of games this this is kind of a hack and slash like platinum style. I played through the main game over three times to get that s plus rank in every mission every difficulty level. Wow went through twitter. Outfitting every collectible enemy data cats race lines toilets etc toilets shirt and then s plus all of the game post game content excluding that last boss which consisted of another seventy additional missions. Some of which are fighting multiple bosses from the story at the same time. Jordan is serious about this game in. You must good. He writes with all. It took me almost one hundred hours so the last thing I had to do with one more boss which as you can see took almost ten percent of my entire playtime and the battle itself took almost thirty minutes when I did needed short amount of time right afterwards I must have sat on my couch for at least fifteen minutes in silence his heart too subtle and trying to comprehend that it was finally over. Sorry for a long story though. That's fine dirt and that was the perfect your story and yeah that's a great way to end it. I'm glad that you like didn't do do that and then have to go. Do some toilets like whenever that is you got to do everything first and then put the Cherry on top exactly. Uh Very Difficult Iron Jerry. You're up next. This is from Gavin Rights. Janine Chiro an orphan of costs where certainly league tough but they both pale in comparison to getting over it with Bennett. Fati I finally reached the cosmos after hours of hammer swing and I never want to see that weird culture and man again. I did not beat that game. I played but definitely not no. I played enough to be like okay I got. Yeah yeah that's all you really need to do with that game you can also beat it. That is an option that is available. I do think that there's like more profound getting it that you probably get once you've put in like ten and hours and gotten 'cause like I can kind of see that though I didn't I was like okay. Such a different kind of difficulty right like when in a game is fucking with you. It's more difficult because it's fucking with you because it's like make it hard like I would imagine you could play octa dead and try to like. I don't move through the supermarket without ever knocking anything over and that would be like the hardest thing possibly video game but it's because it's like it's like the opposite of Ninja guided or whatever right sector of like precision. It's like you're just barely making it every single time. You do anything in that game or like if you played like connect game could be like the hardest escape ever because it's like this weird camera. Yeah it's like a different kind of difficulty. I guess all right. Here's Sam Sam. The hardest thing I ever did in the video game was trying to be Polka. Mongolia on my gameboy color. The twist was that was eleven or twelve at the time so pre on the Internet a lot and the game would no longer save after owning it for three and four years So the challenge orange was having to be gold. Canto elite for before the batteries. And the gameboy color. We're running speed run technique rice. I don't think I ever actually beat it. But I remember the anxiety of seeing the red battery lights. Begin to flash on Gameboy and knowing that I was about to lose on my progress. Jesus horrible yeah that's like Impose challenge to be this before my controller in batteries. And I can't yeah. Yeah Yeah. That sounds really stressful. And I it doesn't sound like this person ever actually beat the game which should finally get it now like by could happen. Check it out and check out the end of that game spoke about. I can tell you what probably happened happens anyway. This next one is from Scott who writes although I could potentially list. Some of the souls born bosses here. I think the hardest obstacle completed in a game would have to be the path of pain and hollow night. this is an optional. Secret Challenge area found within the White Palace and it is included in the grim troop. DLC It is without a doubt the most difficult platforming section in any game. I've played and it doesn't even really count for anything I want to say. I got it done in three sessions of two to three hours of peace but the exact timing is blurry I would not recommend doing this exclamation point way to end this email so the next email from Vince is also the path south of pain. And he says I'm not usually to get angry while playing video games but the eighteen hours I spent leading this game my ass. Eight ways from Sunday where the most intense infuriating life altering altering difficult hours. I've ever spent in a game Vince. Rights almost became. These stereotypical angry Gamer by during my controlling the TV screen on multiple occasions months. I know that feeling. But the events sense of accomplishment I felt after finally completing it is like nothing I've ever felt unlikely will never feel again in the world of video games looking back on it. I'm glad I spent spent the time overcoming that crazy. Gauntlet Jason Kirk. I highly recommend giving a shot. If you haven't already. I believe that Jason beat this. Actually I think that sounds like something. He said that he did take care. Bye Pass on that. I beat a lot of stuff in Holland night. Like I've said the radiance is one of the things I've ever done. I do gather that the pathogen is harder harder this the area that White Palace is like. It's an endgame area. I think it might be optional. I think it's like if you're getting the true ending you have to go and it's so it's like I'm not not much for super meat boy. There's a lot of spinning blades and like stuff and you have to you know. I never beat super meat. Boy Kinda game after a certain point. I'd just like yeah I there. There are other things I'd like to do super similar and I'm curious about or this makes me think about this. A little bit is that I'm very similar. Never be I'm like not much of a platformer guy like I didn't play a lot of those games growing up and I did beat this stuff in Holland and a lot of the seven. How night is just the same kind of really really responsive the thing where are you slide on the wall like you jumped to the wall and then slide and you have to kind of keep jumping out and you like I mean jump try and that stuff is hard? I think it's because I'm so when a game gets me. Invested in other ways like leveling up on like the whole game isn't just like super meet boy like just those challenges because all night is like an action. RPG with the story. And all the stuff I was like. Oh yeah okay. I'll put in the time like eighteen hours. Spent doing that or being. The radiance feels different to me. Then it would be and just like some crazy boss rush game or some really hard platformer so I like I can kind of imagine doing it but I never did so. Yeah no I hear you. I need some emotional shaw investment. I think that's the only way I beat the last even that I did it with infinite jumping on how so I really truly pizza last this unfair question but I I did I did I would say I did but I got finished with the fact that it had a story. I'm like that helped me get through to the person I I can't remember anymore. It's me it's you eric. Rights Oh com is a great game and this section is now required at all. If you go back to the God afforest. You'll find these large balls that appear you need to push them up the hill to get some extra experience. Ami is as you know a dog and doesn't have arms so despite being an Almighty Sun Goddess. She can only kind of rub against the ball with her snout. I spent two hours trying to get the largest Paul up the hill as it slipped around in every possible way it was literally being stiffest tortured orchard by the Gaming Gods for all eternity to push this stupid ball up a hill. It drove me nuts and even though it was literally pointless I refuse to be defeated by these dumb walk. Walkie physics balls are evil but I was stronger. This stupid nonsenses. Greatest Gaming Triumph. Even more than Celeste. Chapter nine or is final. Fantasy twelve amazing amaz played comey but I can one hundred percent. I have done stuff like this stupid stupid games where I'm like. This is dumb weird thing that I've decided I'm going to do nothing springs to mind by this so hard and yet now I must do it. Were our brains. Are Bad terrible inclusion. Our brains are bad so I do feel like I'm looking at the time. There's no way we're going to get through it and we're going to have to do USA maybe next week because there are so many good ones I can think back to some of them. And we'RE NOT GONNA get to all of them but let's do maybe a couple more okay. This next one comes from Jeff. Jeff writes the hardest thing I've done in games. In recent memory is attaining the wayfarer title and destiny two completely Solo while also being a dad of two small children so this is a challenge. He he he does a pretty lengthy like recap of what this says. This is like A. It's a challenge to get like a ton of stuff you have to like. Get a million things things I'll read. This is from Jeff the titles. You're probably aware requires a great collecting a great many destiny things including the infamous the infamous. Michael Weapons you have to get those on Mars actually hard as well as exploring many different locations many times experiencing absolutely everything in the cursive of Cyrus deals with you Jeff. That was the worst deals. The only part of it really makes this challenge for Challenging for a Solo player is the requirement to get a specific random weapon to drop after completing the strange terrain nightfall on Mars in destiny to the harder. You make at the nightfall for yourself. The more likely the weapons to drop some had to aim for a score of one hundred K.. which is no easy? Feat was looking to get after ten to fifteen drums but runs. They'll never forget. Forget my final run when I finally broke one hundred k Solo and got the break tech Osprey rocket-launcher fourteen minutes into their run. I was just over one hundred K.. Score and after fifteen minutes your scores starts. It's to drop so I'm breaking character here to explain this yet. You've run through the night so you have to go really fast because like your score starts climbing but then if you go to if you take too long it like starts dropping so it gets more and more stressful and you're trying to beat the boss but they can come a point where you're like fuck were not going to get it right you get diminishing returns because exactly two long. Yeah we're not going to be able to be the boss before it gets under hundred case gets dropped so it's very stressful challenging okay so back to Jeff Jeff rates. I had knocked I. Harold absolve sites and I stepped backward firing a volley of rockets and him actually step backward off a small cliff rockets into the wall and I ended myself instead of him now. Fighting the clock with time in my score ticking down I finished. It was close call but I ended up with a score. One hundred and one K and I saw the glorious shiny purple drop out of the test I and I picked up my new fancy Osprey rocket launcher. I went into my menu dismantled the useless weapon into oblivion and checked off my brand new fancy title where Wayfarer wayfair is the least exciting impressive title in destiny too but knowing that I did it completely solo as a point of pride for me and one of the hardest things I've ever done in gaming I once described titles to my wife is a way to identify people who play you too much destiny. When I told her achievement? She said cool now. Everyone else will know you play too much just to yup cheers good pods. Yeah that's super too. I've never gotten a title industy to a plate so much but then by the time they introduced titles like not playing as much and as Jeff says you have to play a ton. It's very much like do this hard thing. And this hard thing that he's part of things and also these like thirty fucking other things that just like collect every piece of this armor that just takes forever. Just don't have evidence to see your title like it was it was wasn't it launched but I think that's common in is like you'll see your handle an underrated I'll say wayfair or like like dredging because you've liked killed a bunch of people and getting better. I don't know there's some of them are so hardcore like you have to be like absolutely and it is cool there like if you're really tell everybody I played too much destiny. Nice all right. Why don't we do one more all right? So this one's Ramesseum who writes Tarzan the game. So Oh yeah I was playing this on PC. I kept dying multiple times in a section and that infuriated me so I started the game all over again and I beat it in one single sitting not dying once sounds. I don't know what possessed me that time but it must have been out of this world. You talked about tilting. Well playing games and I think for me. It reached so far beyond it. The tilting almost became the motivator. So great he's just play all of it. Well tilted like the tire. Fresh replays like I'm so angry. I'm starting from the very beginning and I'm just pure rage. Just I love it. I love just the imagine. If like you're just like chilling the like I'll show you game and it's just because it was like I just kept dying and this one part over again. Hers in the game is good too. That's a great story so we have a bunch more. He'll feed it right in. If you WANNA send us more. I mean I just do this for the next four weeks forever. It is great fun. I'm these stories are all really fun. So if you haven't sent in a story and you want to go ahead I mean even if we don't get to read it on the show willingness only Mattie. Yeah we'll enjoy reading them. They're very fun to read. So thanks everybody. Who sent them in Split Screen at Guitar? Dot Com can always send us more more gaming stories Anna. Yeah why don't we take take a break and then come back with some off topic non video game stuff and end. We're back and it's time to talk about some non video game topics in our off topic section Matty Why don't you go first? What are you got for us this week? Okay so I have a podcast recommendation. I have started listening to this show called. You must remember this which is very popular and I forgot took the name of the host. And I'm GonNa do that right. You Talk I'm looking them up. This is I actually haven't heard of them despite it being popular. Okay so let me know her name in a minute so bill. I started because a friend of mine recommended that I just everyone. They just shared this on their social media. Everyone should listen to the song of the south episodes of you must remember this. Because because it's like just this incredible encapsulation of decades of race relations in America and describing the making of this very racist Disney movie that has been like taken in and out of Disney vault storage over the years and like the reasons why it was taken in and out of ru storage and also inspired the splash mountain. Ride which I wrote when I was in Disneyworld world and was like. Wow Yeah this right is inspired by Song of the South that racist movie that I've never actually seen and only know a few things about this is a weird ride and like what are these characters isn't sort of curious about it but never really looked into it and these episodes are incredibly good. This is like a narrative research journalism kind of podcast. Where like like the host has done all this research and she just describes the historical reality of like the making of these these movies? And it's like it's all cinema history Hollywood history so so I definitely recommend this miniseries. A folks are overwhelmed about the prospect of listening to all the archives of the show. You could just listen to this one miniseries it stands on its own. It's just the history of this movie. It's fascinating so great. So Karina Longworth is. She's also married to Ryan Johnson in which I found really way later and was like what power because I'm like okay so like they're just both really cool. I guess so I love her show. It's it's it's cool. That Ryan Johnson is married to a woman who's like incredible at cinema history research so I'm just listening and being in total fan girl about these celebrities that I don't really know anything about but yeah I've been going back and listening to a bunch of old episodes of the show as well and really enjoying them so I recommend them but I definitely super recommend this particular miniseries. I I love. That sounds fun. I that sounds like that would be good counterpart to blank check movie podcasts man. They're good I feel like song of the South is. I'll totally listen to this. I feel like I always people reference Song of the South as like that super racist in you know a lot about. Oh and then they're song of a south you know that that was bad and then they move on and I'm like well actually. I don't really know the story of that. Like what is the story and so al.. Yeah I'll tell you listen to this. That sounds Nice. Well I'll put mine around around I so I mentioned blank check last time movie podcast. I've been listening to and they've been talking about James Cameron so I've been watching James Cameron movies. I reached Avatar Great. Until let's see I I do feel like that. You like Avatar. Oh totally it's been blowing my mind for the past week so I like a lot of things about it. Actually actually the episode of blank check about Avatar is does a good job of articulating some of the things I like about it. Like the execution the way he sets things up he has like he's just a very like technically cleave very good director and thoughts on Avatar. I'm first off trying to remember if I already did this on this podcast. Like two years ago or something like that He. He did say Rewatch Avatar time to talk about video games. I do like watching it because it's just so cool looking. It is very video game. Let me say that yes. This movie is like very problematic in the way that it like that is the it's a science fiction retelling of Pocahontas but like racist possible version is very well yes it is playing with a lot of stuff like out irresponsibly and like the the level of cultural appropriation happening in this movie. Or like the fact that it's literally a combat that is not explored in the most despite the fact part of the overall message message it is bad to be like a colonialist power nature and to indigenous people exactly. It's still like it's not very very thoughtful. That's like narrowly. It's just not trying to go there. which like it could've or maybe hopefully the Siegel he's making will go there? And it's because there's a lot of stuff there if they were more thoughtful amount that you could maybe maybe say something interesting but they don't even try so that is definitely like watching a lot of stuff in this movie. That's kind of like but still it's so cool life it's like I'm being so like James Cameron about watch it like in three D or like with your home or do you just watch it norm. I just watch it and like so I and I do think I remember seeing this in three and Max I do fucking the ACA. As far as I. I think that is true when it really comes down to it like this movie as an experience experience is it works because of the Three D.. Because I remember seeing it and being like I can't believe what I'm seeing and I still think I would go see it again in Nymex like I bet they'll probably err it or they'll do a showing before the sequel or something. I don't WanNa see it again and see if it's the same because this was like three D. movies weren't even really a thing and and then this movie happened and since then no three D. movies ever been as cool as visually watching this moving now. What is weird to me and I wonder if anyone listening knows the answer to this because I do? I know there've been a lot of technical breakdowns. And he's explaining the technology he invented for this movie. Why does this movie look so so real like I don't get it and this is a question for the universe? I don't know because like does it look as real even when it's not an Nymex in three D.. Because I feel like this is the complaint. I heard most often about the movie. After the fact is that you just watched on regular television and the magic is lost Avatar were rate. It's not as cool like when you're watching just the blue people like when it's just there in the jungle and it's like all basically CG than Motion Capture Yep but at the same time there are sequences is in this movie that just it just the way. The light casts off of the Blue Navy skin like the way that like their faces move the performances like it looks like people people still it. Looks Kinda like fake. 'cause it's big blue people but it's still looks real in a way that I was a little bit of injuries. Endgame just randomly and like Thanos Jason. That looks really cool and like Josh. Brolin is like a good performance but he still looks like a CG character and like the Navy don't like they look. There's something else going on like. There's something technical. Oh happening the way that they're standing in the woods and that the leaves are like drawn and maybe it's just because they spent so much money in so much time making but I don't think like Disney and like like the marvel people didn't spend equivalent amount of money making Santa's it just. There's something technical some curious about that. There's just times in the movie where I'm like. I feel like I'm looking at real things. Some of the aerial scenes where they're flying. I'm like this kite or like a physical object moving through the air especially the big red one like that big red band chief any other there filmmaker. I'd be like maybe they did use some practical effects but it it's not so I'm pretty sure it's all not practicing with his ties to the lenses in the cameras. He used or something some way that that they shot stuff that like involved real motion even though Oh yeah that would help some way. Not Puppets or that part is all CGI CGI Spitzer's right trees for some scenes and fake ones for others right. I I think that's right and but I don't really know anyways. I'm sure there's like if anyone knows if I could really really good behind the scenes. I think maybe it's just like the rave out you just look on Youtube. And unlike outsourcing this Labor to our listeners in a way to anyways I know you're not a Disney person at all but I did get on the Avatar Disneyworld and it was pretty sick and I don't think like Avatar but it looked cool as hell video of it because I feel like you'd enjoy it. They made they make it look really cool. I WANNA say more of a Disney person than you might think. I don't know if given the impression that I'm not a fucking love Disney museum like. I'm not super like I'll watch. Lindsay Ellis US video about the history of Disney and be like Holy Shit like this so I'm not like super versed in the history of Disney. But I love Disney stuff. I think Disney is one also Disney socks Salata family. They are fascinating. I like Disney history and Disney movies. So other thing that I watch and I'll I'll be quick accents doing things breaking the rules. But whatever this is two of us is uncut gems. I watched this movie. And Wow that's that's that's a real experience yellow. I make myself awesome with the first thirty minutes and then I realized what kind of movie I was enfor which is a stressful gambling movie and I was like. I don't have an emmy today I I just don't have it. I mean I think I talked about that on the show and last week. I think I was like I'm GonNa Watch it stove and watched it folks uh-huh will I ever watch it. Yes I will. I tell when I don't know how to watch on. Yeah so I had a similar experience. Maybe I'll say what the movie is and then tell that story. This movie is starring Adam Sandler. It's made by the SAFDIE brothers. Who gather are these? Like very edgy rule breaking like guerrilla filmmakers who kind of like go without a permit and just down the street like causing trouble and it has this. They've made very stressful anxiety. Inducing types of movies and this star is Adam Sandler. He's great in it like you know. And this is a very unpleasant movie about a man who is like living so hard on edge like cranks to such such a high volume level he's like a jewel jeweler jewel merchants Amos Madden. Yeah like in the whole world that apparently is a whole world of like jewelry the end like watches and gems that moved through this one block of Manhattan and it's this long running thing of like a lot of sketchy characters a lot of crime. A A Lotta people like hustling wheeling and dealing and rambling is constantly like levering. Different deals in my other deals and and he's a complete gambling addict. Just like this is really more than anything about addiction. I think like now that finished it like and it's so stressful. So we watch this emily and I we had a bunch of screeners and we were watching them with her folks when they are visiting. And we'd put these movies and then we put that one on and this is just like many yelling at each other. It is the whole movie just like fuck. What the fog? Hey man energy well like weird since music place people walking in and out of screaming at each other. And it's not we're GONNA I kinda like movie combined with. Martin Scorsese on mess and then it turns out. Murphy's Percy like came on to produce this movie executive producer later in development and and then it kind of blew up in that. That's how they got the money to get Sandler and they got some shots and stuff so it Kinda got bigger where 'cause they were really small like last movie had Robert Pattinson and it's like much smaller budget in this movie. So yeah man. All these scenes in length the in the in the jewelry store which is a windowless room basically with with like jewelry displays and there's a buzzer door that you need this bulletproof double locked doors again. And there's just people buzzing at the door and yelling to one another and it's like Burma arm arguing with someone and you're like holy fuck and that's from the very being in the movie and it. Just escalates escalates. Escalates as he keeps making worse gambles and worst bets. And it's like can he pull this off and it's like spinning plates and you're watching plates crashed and these were that plane crashed and this total nightmare. So yeah it's not the pleasant experience watching it but it was kind of like a cool thing to watch a movie that like I felt like pulling a pin out on a hand. Grenade in your living room. And then just sitting there with the grenade in your hand holding the lever down and being like okay revenue for two hours and fifteen but that's kind of interesting because so many movies it's like oh well this be entertaining this be like illuminating. Will this be a nice two hours. This is not that. It's like a really prickly thorny thing that's like not interested at all on that and I found that interesting. I don't have that much bandwidth for like this kind of movie. You know like really unpleasant like a year but I think I handled one right but but I can't stop thinking about it. I mean it really. It is like it lodges in your brand. It's a very affecting like piece of our so if you're up for that kind of thing I do recommend it. Adam Sandler is great in it. I don't think so sometimes people are like. Oh can you believe it. And it's like yeah I can believe he's a good actor clock two decades and our dot grade timing and knows. He's a great screen presence. Chris this is good he just does other movies to make a lot of money. That's what that guy does. And given that I know there's a lot like the movie has a lot of just Jewish culture and it's it's a very Jewish movie actually thought maybe we'll link shuts that Richard Brody at the New Yorker Review of this movie. That kind of made me think of it in a lot of new ways. And he wrote about Jewishness an interesting way. And because it's about like a Jewish guy in New York who gambles on basketball. I'm very curious what Jason we'll watch so we'll have to. We'll we'll check in with him. I'm sure we'll talk about it when he's back on the show but yeah maybe that'll be my deadline to myself to watch this. Given the an uncut gems. They're both kind of about basically situation kind of similar in some ways. That's it's interesting. I hadn't thought about that before. All right well let me give. Let me give a music pick to the listeners out there and then we'll then we'll call it so for starters new strong songs John's episode this week and it is the Cardi- love full one of my favorite songs on one of my favorite albums. I it's really fun episode. I really good time making making it if anybody has ever heard that song thought like Oh. It's just that Romeo and Juliet on like I duNNo. I hopefully like this is like no cartoons brilliant band and this is a brilliant brilliant awesome. That was really fun to make anybody who wants to check that out. Good check it out. School podcast Music though is is a jazz tune. This is by a guy named Chris Potter. Who is one of my guys on saxophone? Amazing Amazing Amazing sex player and this is a tune called migrations from two thousand album traveling mercies featuring John Scofield. Qatar is a really really good jazz guitar. And this is like Funky is held Killington. It's an seven four. It's odd time coming stuff on it but once on listeners. I don't don't worry it's jazz but some of you will like it so give it a listen. This is called migrations by Chris. Barnes UH I liked it like sometime. Kelly jazz can be funky man like yeah I like it a Funky Song. And then he's not really a jazz person but I do like funk long so I feel like this song is is Yahtzee gateway into more jazz funky Jazzman. It's all out there. This guy. Chris Freeman seeing him light. It's like okay like so you can be so good at saxophone. Transcend space and time all right. I didn't know that was possible. Very good. All right well well. That was a fun episode. Did a bunch of Thanks everyone who wrote in with your stories and we'll we'll do more. Maybe maybe next we'll see we'll play it by some good ones so you haven't heard that we want to share it so bell in there but feel free to write in with more of those stories if you would like if you didn't senders into split screen at Kentucky Dot Com Mattie. I will see you next week. You will all right bye. Talk split-screen the official PODCAST OF KENTUCKY DOT COM It's produced by Jason. Schreier Manny Myers and meet Kirk Hamilton. I had it mixed the podcast and also wrote in performed our song and other music you can find us on most popular Abdur podcast services and hope you'll leave us a review. If you like what you hear the final episodes could talk you dot com slash split-screen email us at split-screen at Kentucky Dot Com Eh.
Crimes of Passion Bites: Torture
"Welcome to podcast crime bites. We wanted to give our listeners. Some additional content to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world every week. In addition to your normal crimes of passion episode. We're exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the crime world really is. You can find these original episodes for free on spotify over every listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we used will be posted in the episode description. Today we're discussing cases in which a criminal tortured victim. What would compel someone to torture another person and what lasting effects Senate victim but was tortured? The most heinous torturers are known as sexual sadists people who derives sexual pleasure from the suffering. They cause according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation full blown. Sexual Sadism is a psychological phenomenon that evolves over time developing sexual sadists. I form control based fantasies focused on domination through the infliction of pain over time. The sadist longs to determine their fantasy into reality. Eventually their desire to harm another person overwhelms and the sadist in acts of violence against a human being like many crimes torture can have lasting effects that effective scientists. Bruce McEwen says not the chronic stress that comes from being repeatedly tortured can alter the brain forever victims can suffer from post traumatic stress disorder anxiety disorders and depression torture can even affect a person's memory which sometimes makes investigating a torture crime difficult for law enforcement in today's clips. We will hear about three different cases of torture and the victims who endured throughout will begin with the clip from female criminals covering the gruesome torture and murder of Sylvia likens in the summer of nineteen sixty five. Sylvia and her sister were sent to live with a caretaker. Named Gertrude. Banish Ski Sylvia's father had promised to stipend took her cheered for caring for the children. But when the checks stop coming Sylvia got the brunt of gertrude rage to make matters worse gertrude also envied Sylvia. In Gertrude is Sylvia was everything. She wished she could be young beautiful and popular for months. Sylvia was tortured by Gertrude. Eventually her children and the neighborhood children joined in on the abuse at one point in September. Gertrude told Stephanie's friend Anna Cisco Thirteen that Sylvia was spreading rumors. About Anna's mother. Anna attacked Sylvia in retaliation kicking and slapping her. Some of their other friends went to break things up. But Gertrude stopped them telling them to let the to fight their own fight. Sylvia didn't really fight back though. Even when Anna kicked her in the stomach this turned a pattern. Gertrude would spread a rumor that Sylvia had insulted one of the other kids and they would retaliate. Paula. Stephanie and their friend. Judy Duke twelve all believed the lies. Gertrude told them and took their anger out on Sylvia hitting Sylvia in the head or throwing things at her like dishes bottles or hair. Spray cans became a game almost routine. Gertrude and Paula led the charge. Gertrude would punch Sylvia repeatedly but the girl didn't dare fight back. The abuse escalated by the end of September. As many as ten children at a time would gang up beating kicking or flipping Sylvia. Johnny Bench Chefs Ski and his friend. Randy Leper twelve would take turns punching her in the face. Sometimes Sylvia would have lit matches flicked at her. All of these activities were considered by the kids to be games. Sylvia thought so too at the trial. The attorneys and the press attributed the children's behavior to mob psychology mob or crowd. Psychology is a branch of social psychology. Where several theories have been developed to explain how the behavior of crowds differs from that of individuals crowds can be passive like audiences or active like mobs one type of active mob is the aggressive mob? Which is often violent and outwardly focused. A theory held by French psychologist. Gustave labar suggests that crowds exist in stages two of these stages are submergence and contagion during submergence people in the crowd lose their sense of individual self and personal responsibility contagion refers to how individuals in the crowd unquestioningly follow the predominant ideas and emotions of the crowd mob. Psychology could explain how the older Banish Chef Ski Children Paula. Johnny and Stephanie. As well as Coy Hubbard Randy Leper Judy Duke. Anna Cisco and Mike Munro who was eleven participated in such casually brutal acts against Sylvia. Either on orders from Gertrude or on their own according to John Dean a reporter who covered the nineteen sixty six trial and subsequently wrote the Book House of evil the Indiana torture slaying. Gertrude was a quote psychologically passive woman among her peers but she had a way with children and evil way for whatever motive she was able to mobilize children's play energy to serve her own dark purposes with Sylvia Likens and quote in that clip from female criminals Gertrude Vanish Hausky. Her children and children from the neighborhood repeatedly tortured. Sylvia Likens finally on October Twenty Sixth Nineteen Sixty Five. Sylvia died from her injuries gertrude. Her Children Paula and John and neighborhood. Children Richard Hobbs and Coy Hubbard. Were all tried for participating in Sylvia's murder Gertrude. And Paul about a shift ski were sentenced to life imprisonment. And Richard. Hobbs Klay Hubbard and John Vanish at Ski Junior. Each received sentences of two twenty one years to this day. There is debate over the motives of the children. Who Tortured Silvio? Perhaps they participated due to mob psychology. Perhaps they enjoyed the torment inflicted. Or perhaps they were so afraid of Gertrude. They wished to avoid Herath of course while their motivations were complex and unknown sometimes torture as motives are all too clear. What happens when someone tortures their victim for the thrill alone coming up the horrifying torture tactics of the toolbox killer David Parker Ray. Podcast has an incredible new series aimed. Brighten your days end? Renew your outlook on life. It's called daily quote and it's a quick two to three minute daily podcast for you to get inspired by through the hustle and bustle and stresses of life. Finding the path positively has never been more crucial and the more fulfilled. Feel the more grounded you become. Every day on daily quote you'll be given a quote meant to motivate and Uplift. You'll also dive deeper into the context surrounding the quote learning more about its origin and the meaning behind it. There have already been so many great quotes feature that. It's hard to choose my favorite but for me the quote quota probably sticks out the most is from beloved TV legend. Fred Rogers. It really was a special episode. So whether you're jumpstarting the morning searching for that midday pick me up or trying to finish the evening off strong daily quote offer. Some of history's most inspirational quotes. Need them three hundred and sixty five days a year? Follow daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the show. Murder is a horrific crime when it's accompanied by torture it becomes especially heinous in fact. Tortures murders are so brutal. United States law includes torture as something that makes a criminal eligible for the death penalty. Our NEXT CLIP from serial killers highlights killer. Who MADE TORTURE A game? David Parker Ray created a soundproof trailer which he called his toy box complete with a collection of pulleys saws and surgical blades. He used to torture his dozens of victims the F. B. agents. She spoke to were stunned by what she had to say. She detailed her father's sexual appetite and run INS with sex workers. She told them all about his extensive collection of sex toys and homemade torture devices. Then she delivered a bombshell. Her father had a penchant for abducting young women torturing them and either killing them or selling them into sexual slavery down South Mexico. Iraqi stations were fairly general in their scope. She couldn't name any of his specific victims but they were shocking enough to get the FBI interested. The agents thanked Jesse for her statements and the FBI immediately began an investigation into David. Parker raise activities. We don't know much about the specifics of the investigation. However we know. They searched for some of his alleged victims but could find no trace of them. We also know that. They brought David in for questioning on multiple occasions. Strangely when David was brought in to talk he was startlingly forward about his personal life. He was very cooperative and told agents all about his sexual fetishes he spoke fondly of his love for BCSM and told them he was part of the underground kink community in Phoenix. He even told them that he sold some of his personally created torture devices in be. Dsm Magazines David showed the investigators the ads he had placed and lead them to the Po box where he received and orders out of elephant. Butte Lake perhaps most surprisingly David was uncomfortably open about the overwhelming nature of his sexual urges. He said that ever since he was thirteen he had been obsessed with bondage culture and more disturbingly sadism. He could go months at a time living life normally but then his sexual fixations would kick in and he would become obsessive. He would spend weeks of his time quote fantasizing about everything imaginable including killing women in order to attack late. David even told the FBI investigators that he thought he was quote potentially dangerous without ever confessing to any specific crimes. David had effectively told the FBI almost everything about his inner mental life we don't know if the FBI ever tapped ebbets phones or searched his home. We do know that. The investigation lasted porn entire year from June of Nineteen eighty-six to the summer of Nineteen eighty-seven yet. Fbi investigators failed to find any concrete evidence of criminal wrongdoing on David's part because Jesse had been either unable or unwilling to provide any specific details about the victims the F. B. was left with general accusations and no hard evidence David strange willingness to cooperate with the investigation. Meanwhile could be interpreted two different ways at the time. The investigators believed that statements were simply the ramblings of a very unusual but innocent man however in Hindsight. We know that he was an incredibly confident killer. Who knew that he had not left behind any evidence the FBI combined in that clip from serial killers? David Parker Ray detailed the fantasies that he acted out on his victims while Ray was never convicted of any murders its suspected that he tortured upwards of sixty women many of whom have not been identified and were likely murdered. After his final victim Cynthia v Hill escaped and went to the police. Two more women came forward to tell their story of surviving. Raise toy box in two thousand one. Ray was sentenced to two twenty four years in prison like David Parker Ray. The criminal and our next clip was a sexual sadist who also kept his victim at a box and derived pleasure from torturing her. Our last clip is from podcast original hostage and covers the kidnapping and torture of Choline Stan. In nineteen seventy seven. Kaleen was a twenty year old looking for a ride to her friend's birthday party. When Cameron Hooker stopped to pick her up. Kaleen felt confident accepting ride because cameras wife. Janice and their baby. We're also in the car. But they were Bait Cameron abducted Khalid and through her in a wooden box. He kept the box beneath his bed. And locked colleen within it for twenty three hours a day only letting around to sexually assault and torture her. This continued for eight months until Kaleen signed a contract agreeing to be a slave cameron. He had convinced her that if she didn't sign the contract of fictional group called the company would find her family and kill them one wonders hooker. Children grew if they ever thought about the babysitter who used to play with them. They had no idea that from nineteen eighty one to nineteen eighty-four. That woman was right upstairs. Trapped in a small box beneath their parents bed after allowing choline a weekend with her family. In March nineteen eighty-one Cameron got spooked. He shoved Coleen into the box beneath his bed and never gave her free reign of the House again and even more horrifically. His violent fantasies escalated. He dreamed up even more perverted ways of torturing Coleen and unfortunately for her cameron was a skilled woodworker. More than capable of making these fantasies. A reality hooker bill to contraption. He dubbed the stretcher. It worked like a medieval torture device. He tied Coleen to too heavy boards and turned a wench stretching the board apart he would watch with pleasure as coleens entire body tightened and she screamed in agony. He would keep her on the stretcher as long as she could stand choking her and watching her ride then he'd lock her in the box until it was time for another session. One day in nineteen eighty two while Cameron was at work and Janice Away Choline broke. She flew into a fit of rage. It had been almost two years since she last been allowed out of her box. She began screaming kicking and flailing against the wood box. She railed on it as hard as she could. Suddenly the foot of the box collapsed. Kaleen was stunned. She had kicked it open. She went to get up to flee this wretched house that had filled her nightmares for six years. But she stopped. The company was watching when Cameron returned. Coleen expected to be whipped for damaging the box but he simply began repairing the door. In fact he seemed proud. She had the chance to escape but out of fear she had stayed. It was what Cameron had always dreamed of with a thin lipped smile. He talked Coleen back in the box. For Safekeeping Dr Amy Baker a psychologist at Columbia University has written that victims of abduction tend to internalize physical restraints to such an extent that the victim becomes psychologically dependent on their abuser. The abuser looms so large in the victim's mind they cannot imagine ever breaking free. Were the help of the company. Cameron had become such a beast. Colin could no longer imagine a world without him looming in the shadows waiting for a moment to recapture her following that clip from hostage. Choline regained some freedoms and was allowed out of the box to work as a maid in a motel when Cameron announced he would make Coleen his second wife Janice became so upset that she secretly confessed to Coleen that she too had been brainwashed and tortured by Cameron and the company did not exist. Janice drove choline to a bus station and escaped with her. Two Daughters Janice reported cameron to the police and after getting immunity for her testimony sent Cameron to prison for one hundred four years subjects today displayed some of the most horrific torture methods known to man in both serial killers and hostage. David Parker Ray and Cameron Hooker created torture chambers to house their victims in female criminals. Gertrude created a living hell in her own home purely terrorize a teenager whom she envied. We also saw that. These criminals enjoyed the torture. They instilled on their victims. David Parker Ray was a sexual sadist with antisocial personality disorder which is characterized by a lack of empathy and violation of the rights of others. While no diagnosis is available for Cameron Hooker. He was likely a sexual sadist similar to David. Parker Ray Gertrude. Bouna chef ski also enjoyed the suffering she inflicted upon. Sylvia likens up until the moment Sylvia died from her torment. Sadly Sylvia likens lost her. Life Colleen Stan and several David Parker raised victims escape to be unimaginable torture to live a life of freedom once again. Even in the darkest circumstances there is always the hope of finding something better. Thanks for tuning into podcast. Crime pilots. We hope you enjoyed this episode on torture will be back next week with a new episode on crimes with the political motive. If you like to listen to the episodes that we discussed today in full simply search for our podcast. Original shows serial killers hostage or female criminals on spotify. That only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at cast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you next time.
25: Kate Fazzini
"Welcome back to the dopey the podcast better, better future. I'm John vanish wave. Kate visine. She's an author. We apologize the audio quality of this week show. We will fix it next week. This is techno techno Topi has also sponsored by cheap. Transcription dot IO keep transcription offers ten cent per minute. Transcription using our happy, robots or eighty five cents per minute. Using our human assistance, cheap. Transcription. I o is cheaper and faster than everyone else. Chief transcription dot CO. Welcome back to the Toby of the podcast, but a better future. John Biggs today, the caves Zini, she's a reporter, cyber security, and you just recently wrote a book the kingdom of lies Irving adventures in the world of cybercrime. I was really excited about this title because it's I like nerve adventures. Welcome, thank you, so much having me. Yes, tell me about the book, which you tell me what the who are these who are these Irving ventures. So I, I had a number of people who I wanted to feature and I sent her the book around four individuals who are some of them are cybercriminals. Some of them are defenders, some of them are kind of ambiguous, and certainly all of them scape the line between good in that. And my purpose was just to put them under the microscope and see what? We can understand about security, better by understanding the people involved in it. So what since interesting in their, their heaven few books like this are distinctly remember, like hackers and kuzak everything in these come every couple years, what's, what's special about this era with special about, these hackers Acerra that maybe we might have not seen before sim. I think one of the, the main storylines that people always glommed onto is this woman who I call Rene, who is a young, she said, as a teenager in Romania, who doesn't have very much technical expertise at all. In fact, she kind of hates computers, and she takes job interview for what she believes to be a startup in her hometown, actually turns out to be a cyber criminal ring men and our hometown. She she discovers his is home to many of the is this trend going on across eastern Europe. But what is interesting is this rise of the unskilled worker in inside or security, and certainly on the criminal side. So she comes into this with no skills, she does have some skills for customer service, which is what she's hired to do. She ends up on the other end of these, these calls with companies that have been the victims of ransomware, and she disorder takes from there. She uses her marketing skills brings in helps helps this criminal group. Bring a lot more money than they were before. And kind of find yourself in a little bit, too deep in has to try to get out, and it was just a really compelling story. I think it was a story that a lot of people could relate to. And I wanted to give people a chance to approach the topic from that area understanding I was a dumb teenager ones. I did a lot of stupid things I may have even come close to getting arrested for them or some of those. Might have been a legal and it's really not that different from a lot of people's stories. And so I think that's what makes it different. We're talking about people who allot different. People can relate to cuckoo's egg is one of my favorite books of all time. You're talking about some people with some very heavy technical expertise. And it's a very interesting mystery story this is, you know, people from all walks of life who stumble into this thing, I went to more interesting to people that way. It was fascinating. I think about the cuckoo's egg cookers. You haven't read it to take a look at it. The Clifford stole wrote this story about this book about in. He was one of the first proto internet engineer guys, he, he was he was a physicist at Berkeley, and in, then he discovered a hacker in his in his systems. But all the all the, the expertise required for that hacker to get in from place to place would now be considered kind of normal. But back then that was like that was level stuff that he was doing. But it's funny that you're mentioning a hacker whose basically entry level. It's like it's like the amateur not even to the point of not even the point learning, just basically just show up and do your job. Right. Exactly. And you end the organizations that are that are doing a lot of the cybercrime against us, whether it's front mother. It's ransom layer. Even that's nation state. Sponsored, they looked like this MRs, they have CEO's. They have customer service reps who will get on the phone with you and help you procure bitcoin. If. You've never done that before they have HR departments. They have people who do hiring on the dark web, and find partnerships. It's I want to really highlight people that, you know, the days of stall where you had this east German enemy, and it was very like sort of pseudo militarize having a university. But there's these huge military implications to what's happening is kind of over. And we're now at a point where we're just up against other businesses who running like businesses, and frankly, there are a lot more agile than we. Are we might even have something to learn from them? Do these companies stood out as like I mean, do you sit down to your business plan RIC store for higher? I mean. Talked any these guys L. Yes, in the case has the I'm doing air quotes on the podcast, the company or the criminal organization that, that Rene gets involved in. They actually pivot a few times from originally doing ransomware, and then figuring out they could make more money by just extorting people so stealing their secrets that saying, I'm going to release them for a really huge sum of money. And I think the lesson there is that you have these groups that they might start out that way, some our mortgage than others. Some they helped collect individuals together, but they are able to go into whatever line of work. It is it is the most lucrative at the time. So if it's if it's ransomware that's one thing if it's banked Trojans than they can pivot. They can go there. It's Diaz attacks. Higher. They sort of reform with other people and do those types of attacks. So they're one of the interesting things I heard recently from from a researcher was that? Some of these groups are becoming so large sprawling that, that they've actually become sort of too big to fail at you have. They become much easier to find than Bruce, that are, that are more agile, which I think is an important lesson. So even have cybercrime rings. They're just becoming too bureaucratic. And on the run the packing themselves that sounds like. The absence. They do. They. They actually, you know, I think that it's sort of a, a different version of the Silicon Valley, sniping that goes on between startups times that you, I seen examples of so attribute denial of service attack. I'm sure your listeners know Diaz attack is, is win a criminal overflows the information going in to your company in crashes website. So there's been a surge of these Diaz for higher functions where you can hire somebody to do this against enemy, and we see those factions, actually fighting against each other now where one of them will try to take over the compromise computers of another to not only have more compromise computers, but to give the the competition. Kinda the middle finger which I think is really interesting this fascinating. So what's the. What's next for this kind of stuff is it is? It basically is it's not nation states nation states anymore. So it's Joe's computer hacking versus the Romanian hacking group, or whatever. And you also have this combination of encounters, especially Russia's the perfect example of this, where I talk about this in the book, the government of Russia is comfortable, working alongside criminals, so they find a doing very well. They might say, hey kinda do some stuff in the F SPN. We won't you're not gonna get any trouble for what you've been doing. They have no problem with that. You know, the United States were very different. We're not going to typically make you won't see the FBI asking cybercriminals to join their ranks. But that's that's one trend that I expect to continue. I'm really interested to see what happens with Facebook's cryptocurrency, which came out today. My think there, there's a lot of opportunity there for new kinds of fraud. I think it's also a new opportunity for something that's feeding more secure than the types of financial transactions that we've been doing today. But I expected that the rise of that, cryptocurrency will spur a lot of really interesting criminal innovation. Interesting urine, where everybody here is saying, okay, this is the this is a big deal because it's going to help the on Bank. It's going to it's going to save people's eyes. Etcetera, on Europe's in you're saying, just going to be a little bit easier for for criminals to ask grandma offer a. Which is now I'm not discounting. I know that we're focused on the, you know, bright, shiny feature of technology. I, I don't want to discount that the good that something like this can do for, for the unbagged or for people who don't have access to do savings, and certainly people who are paying really high fees, for, for some of these transactions. But it is going to create a sprawl of, you know, one type of platform that will lend itself to a great deal. I think more activity on the criminal side, especially since you'll have a lot of people who aren't accustomed to. Even the wire transfer process where, you know, wire transfer fraud, huge problem in the United States, and they might not be ready for what one of these scams looks like it. How good they are. And I think that you will see criminals trying to take advantage of that. With tons of new people coming online. Interesting when as as you as you went through the, the research, did you meet any, a promising anti Banta hacker fighters Elliot's, and I knew. He absolutely. And actually, in some of the people who are on the bad side of things kind of take their skills, and go fight for the good, guys, eventually, which I think, is a positive message, maybe some people nothing so but I do and. There are a great many people coming up out of the military out of universities who are really good at at cyber security. We certainly need to see maybe a little more innovation as far as our were hiring these professionals, but I've personally seen some really wonderful cyber defenders action, and it's, it's amazing how I think people would be surprised that you can have a really huge attack. And there's really only a handful of people with the skill set to fight back against it. I think that's something that we need to work on in the US getting better education, helping people get to that level. What is the what is it like that look like is does look like in the in the movies where like somebody has to type in? Python program in fifteen seconds and then bites off the squids or whatever I think it's like that. It's it's often much longer than that. So the relay sophisticated attacks that we see the like say a major financial institution involve, like, let's say, you have a trip wire set up so that if somebody intrudes into your network, and they are taking bits of information back from it. There's a certain level that under that you're not going to see an alarm. And what we often see is that some of the really good attacks are intruders coming in and taking information for months at a time just underneath that level. So, you know, you might have a, a really wide range of people working on the same the same issue. But it is to their benefit to not kind of do the crash in burn type attack that you might see in the movies they wanna be on your network for a long. Time. And just siphon off data a little by little that can become an enormous amount terabytes of information. What can the average person do to protect themselves? Now. I think I'm a couple of things. Despite the fact that we have these huge news stories about cyber security, whether it's the elections, hacking or some of the, the big nation states stuff with with Russia in the energy grid. It all comes down to really simple things like passwords, and making sure that you have multi actor off indication's. They're really simple kind of stabs. I think one of the pieces of advice, I get to poll lot in some people don't love it is just it's sort of respect yourself, more when it comes to social media to a lot of the attacks that we see rely on the information that people put out there freely. And so positioning yourself the way that you want to is, is going to be increasingly important. And I think. A lot of a lot of people say, privacy doesn't exist anymore, or they're not worried about it, but I just encourage people to worry about it to worry about how much information you put out there. And just think about it a little bit before before it gets out into the public sphere. I've always been saying that everybody is going to be naked on the internet for fifteen minutes in the future. I like that. But I I've taken all the foot, I've taken on all my photos, and I try not to put a personal stuff onto social media anymore because it's basically not. That's not a place for it. I can if I sit down at a bar and hang out, we can talk about personal issues. But if I'm gonna post it on Facebook. I know that tomorrow's tomorrow's Facebook post is only read by robots and an hackers. May I think I had had some people ask me, you know, how, how did I carry on conversations with some of the people in the book and often it was just in person, which is interesting, given the subject matter. I think, but in person conversations, it's almost like the currency of the future, where so much of what happened has social media is, it's just not real in its or triggered by you know, an algorithm. That favors everybody being disgruntled with one another. I think it's great to just unplug and you know, get to get get to know somebody, one on one, it's. Maybe that's our future will being we'll be able. Did you notice yourself being targeted at all when you were being when you're is, like, did you notice more hacks or does it is with the field? Eating I was writing work. I don't want I knew I was writing it. So that was probably good. But when I transitioned, so I worked in cyber security for a long time. I was a in the CyberCity organization at J P Morgan Chase in and then for consulting firm, and then I went onto journalist after I wasn't ready for becoming journalists. And then having my name be out, there is a cyber security reporter. I started at the Wall Street Journal, and I did then receive a lot of threats or people trying to plug their expertise or their products by attempting to hack me or hack. The organization I worked for reported back to me. That's been kind of an interesting experience one that I'm not only loving, but middle certainly instructive. And so it's back with sickle book the king of lies Irving adventures in the world of cybercrime. This is coming at this out now. Right. Or we are waiting for. All right. Perfect. L A, grow grab a copy for my for my kids. They always enjoy the it was enjoying the cybercrime stuff Clifford stole Ryan favorites. Kate zini. Thank you for joining us, and taking Topi. This has been a there's been a real treat. I'll I'll try to keep safe. Okay. Thank John ticket. Thank you. Technophobe is brought to you happy fun for happy fun Corp is designed driven technology company in Brooklyn, New York that specializes building mobile and web applications for startups and fortune five hundred companies whether it's a new mobile web application that will help people experience the internet in fun, new way or software that will interface with a new piece of top secret hardware. 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New Set, Who Dis? Exciting New Updates From Us
"Hello welcome back to big mood. How have you been great. Who are you asking i mean. Can you leave a comment. We want to check in with you. We want to check in with you and we want to check in with us so Before we get started who was on the microphone. Today i'm nikki. I'm gina to and i'm jessica and we wanted to talk about like new things that were going on. I don't know if like maybe we looked different. Maybe like you noticed something here. If you've an audio listeners. Only on audio we. The the you revamped. It looks all grown up and pretty and so we went from a high school too early college. Say i think we went from like dorm room to our first apartment. Is it up the opposite an upgraded. Here yeah is the first apartment. All four of us are sharing a one bedroom. Yeah we're poor but we can afford all this so yeah we're living together. We're saving like really good about money-management whenever we bring a boy home. The rest of just put headsets on and listen to her music loudly. Yes compromise around here. I don't actually do that. I have the airpods. It has the transparency setting so like it. Looks like i have my headphones on listening. But i'm you guys actually stay. Indoor dorm rooms ever I did for a short period of time. I went to texas state for one semester. Before i had to drop out. Because there's a lot of drugs going on and i did stay in a dorm. I stayed in a coed dorm. If anyone's listening goes to texas state. I used to stay in the tower. You'll know what that was just called the tower call. Anything cool like omega beta. They might have changed it. Because i wasn't in a story i don't pay for us to call it that everyone had no seriously now. I'm getting a rich. Be look like a sorority person. I would never. I would never pay to be a sorority. Oh you have to pay now. She's i would be an. I would never pay would be in a gro- group if i didn't have to pay for friends right now right. Do we have specific like stereo type. Girls if we were a sorority who do you think you'll be you know you would be the dish that like people be afraid of when their first joining us now and yeah like. She looks like she has money. She owns a couple horses. And she's like if. I leave my food on the table. Like a played out. You're gonna i will do or like you're you're the one that messages like on your instagram. You holding a red cup and that makes us look really bad for file mega in cash that you need to never fucking put a red cup in your pictures ever again. We're going to write you up today. Are you wearing a jewel. Tony oh god can you imagine i could never be that person I am a bitch. But i would never try to control what people are wearing or two key would be the. We're so glad you're here. Here's a welcoming bath you did. I was actually gina. Either bubbly one expended. Oh like right now. Today like they'll folder leader. They really know what it is. You know we do all that upfront. A down payment on friendship. So that like here's c. You know like. I like you. But i'm going to recoil into my bedroom most of the right but i'm a nice person but most of the time you won't see me. Yeah i have five cats by real reason why. The entire house stinks. Catsuits hoops on the so. My cats the reason why our entire living room smells shit. I never smelled it when i was over there. Yeah research shows booking cleans like a madman before we come over. That's not true oiling. Don't just i. I like to keep the house picked. Yeah i think. I like that and then when people are actually coming over on my gonna do bare minimum minimum. Yeah tiffany the organized. Like you be the one that makes everyone feel like you be the one studying and like freaking out about pets opposite of all who actually are study one. Yeah i guess. I'm basing awful looks. I think it's easier for me to pick out which six sex and the city characters we are. Because that's that's more like age. Never seen that show just so never watched. I watched a couple episodes here and there but not enough to really fully tell you oh my goodness i just know. Like what era did you grow up in the main character. And then there was like the older one that that is fucking cool miranda or no The mantha elise. Their names will miranda's kind of old to but she's like the lawyer one other brown brunette. Yes yeah okay. And then we'll. She's the short hair charlotte's the brunette. Okay that's tiffany's character for. Yeah yeah. I think that's me too. Yeah wholesomely she likes romantic. Say asked of. It's a funny. I've never seen that show. But i happen to have like scrolled past at one time when it was on. Tv and it was during a really bad breakup. I was going through. I think it was like twenty or something. And then that samantha blah blah. She just so happened to like shoes. I think she was in a bedroom with the guy that she was heartbroken over. And then she says like. I love you but i love me more. And then she left him and i was like same. And then over my break- you're the samantha for sure Yeah she's my favorite character on that show just like you trying to say no no carry lakes. Everybody that's why. I think i'd be even hated carries character on the show. I'm more of a gossip girl type of person. i don't know. Watch these fucking writer maranda way better. I haven't seen another one. But i feel like girls better. Gossip girl is kind. Of like. From what i've i haven't seen it but i feel like it's kind narrated the same way but a younger version of sex and if we're talking like friends then i can join in okay. I don't know anything about friends. There's only three girls though in that so we had the share one. Yeah has to be ross. Or something. Tokay and i cried area from from rick. And morty ross. It was a bad day. It's a really bad idea. Because you'd be such i literally cried. It was on video. You can watch it on one channel. But it was like a ha when i got ross but then when i go jerry i was actually like what did i put as an answer. That's hilarious jerry. Would do to be even more mad. Go back to one a. Changes try to try to cheat. Get rick or something less your heart. The office personality one. And i got Phyllis never i've seen a way looks and just personality. Yeah sure. I guess. I'm phil i can actually figure out a show that we've all seen together. Do you take the cats. You'd be an angela i think. Oh yeah she's christian. I'm the opposite of k. Take religion anal nece. Though the illness on the way she just wants everything like sad that everyone's like i don't know if i'm supposed to be happier. I don't agree. That's an angela thing to say. I tried it so many times and couldn't get into it because i've only watched the first few episodes of the first season. You gotta you gotta get in michael. Just stresses me out so much really league. His character changed I heard it becomes very endearing. Sweet yeah i think the first season he was kinda trying to go off the british office too much and him and ricky duvrees are just totally different right all different flavors and so i think you really found his stride second season. I see because he stressed me out with the awkward. Like i think. I left off at the zone. He was trying to something like a racial episode. Oh yeah and then he was talking to that indian girl about something about failing yeah and then she slaps him. Oh yeah very early. Okay so i left off at their oscar. Stresses me out so it's so awkward. I love that show I know it's like kind of almost annoying that everyone's like i love that show now so good but it was. It was a good show. And i actually just re watched it recently because during the pandemic you know we have a lot of time and then told me. Her son was watching that show like overrode like six times in a row. I never actually watched it like a roast to follow the storyline. I was it was just kind of on. And i would see if you episodes and it was like oh. This show's funny. But then actually wash it from beginning to end during the pandemic and i cried at the finale. I haven't watched the finale. Because i'm like saving the last few episodes. Are you serious. Just it's over and over anyway over. I just don't like i get really attached to characters like the recently. Do you remember the some good news that john. I never was doing okay. Well i watched like a few of the episodes and one of was the first episode. Where the he did a fifteen year reunion of the office meme cast members and he has one for hold on fifteen years ago. Okay okay yeah. It was the first episode. She's like yes started. Fifteen years ago He was twenty three was like wow. They were so young when they started the show. Anyway they had all the characters like zoom in. And i fucking cried. Because i'm like they're not ever going to be working for like a long alley episode fucking gutted me but also reminded me of like how i actually realized i missed my old co workers from the office that i used to work in all. That's cute it like. I don't know it was kind of like a double thing from you like all the show's over like i got attached to the show but then also is like a personal life thing thinking abou- missing my co workers from it because it's almost like you don't realize that you liked your co workers and your having fun with your co workers because you were just so like in your head in on this today. Sucks this clients suck some over this fucking job but then like you miss all the in betweens of like like laughing going to lunch together and like actually did build a family and you didn't maybe realize it until it was over as i felt about school. Yeah i didn't realize how much missed the classmates that i don't hang out with outside of class until after i was like never seeing that person again. All right it's crazy. It's really sweet. I randomly got tagged in a instagram story. My friend from high school bought my merch. That was just like that. see guy. it's a chick and just like dude. And she she said It's really cool to see my high school friends thriving. I haven't seen you in forever and you're still supporting meals. Really sweet awesome. also it. I speaking of old self. I went to my hometown like last week. And i went to my old neighborhood and that was a trip like all the houses that were there. I got an update of all the neighbors like he died. I'm like okay cool. He also died. I'm like all right. Well yeah and then like yeah there were all okay and then like i had a neighbor two doors down that we used to play together all the time. The house is different now. And i sent him a picture on facebook holy crap. I haven't seen that plays in so long. Like i haven't been here in fifteen years. I was watching your stories and were visiting your old school. Yeah was so. I figured i should stop recording an elementary school in my phone. You're a woman. So it's less likely but sure i love it. Double standard or san jose. Okay yeah yeah so those really those trip to see your daddy. I got to see my pop and it was awesome. That was like the highlight of this whole. Like just everything so it was nice was good to see my papa and i think the craziest moment was because i grew up in a cul de sac and we had like this basketball hoop that we set up like every hall. The stock has a fucking best. Yeah so we were that house the sec basketball hoop and then i used to spend hours playing out there and the now i saw my little cousins playing and i was like dude. 'cause they're like eight years old. I'm like thirty one. I'm like dude. that's cool. They used to be me bass like a weird time. Oh yeah. I can believe it was through there. Yeah that's awesome. Yeah see isaac right now going through seventh grade and distance learning in a new school not making new friends because of the fact that we're in a pandemic my heart so mike dude. He's so like he's all such a social kid but it's hard to meet people when you're not face to face especially at his age and he doesn't have any social media or anything like that so yeah right now. He's struggling. These are like your best like the school year is kind of your best social years. I feel like it's it's it's a situation that you can never recreate basically because once you're an adult you've gone through college or whatever there's no other situation like school being forced into a place with people and just building relationships with them when you're an adult it's kind of like no one really gives a shit about you and you might not ever make friends prepares you for how to interact with people in your adult life like what you learn. All the things that go l. components of school are actually more important than the subjects that you're learning some of them But like time management skills you know being able even class on time turning. Turn in homework assignments on time. Because you. you're going to have to meet deadlines in your adult life and then like socially like how you interact with people or how you Overcome obstacles in like communicate with people and learn to give and take. It's like that's the only thing. Because i i kind of want to home school by kids. But then i think about taking them out of that environment and just not gonna for the school experiencing no. I hated it during. But i think i was watching the queen's gambit. Have you started seeing such a great. So good i love. It may be for my personality. I love it. I don't know if you will but like just seeing like there's scenes were in school and stuff and you just all the locker slamming shut and it's just like atmosphere the atmosphere it's like we can never get that again. I almost started crying because that hit me. Like randomly has nothing to do with the show. But i was just like. I will never get that experience overdoing dreams recently this whole year in particular. I've been having a ton of dreams of where i end up visiting my old high school and but everyone that's there were all adults but we just get like this one day we all get to join and pretend like we're back at school and then got my class schedule and i forgot like where the classes through like a role for three months and i had not gone to class. I can't remember what my period also know where looks like a new school. I don't know where my classes and stuff and then i remember my dream choice award like. Where's the english building. Yeah number two. W so funny. Imagine like if you can recreate that adult school reunion experience. I've been having in. My dreams does all year and i'm like in my dream. I know that i'm an adult. And this is like a one day kind of thing. And then i see people that i remember that i went to high school with and then i start crying because i'm like what happened to us like. Where is everyone what happened. Like we'll get to see each other anymore or anything but yet. I don't know why. I keep having those dreams. Do like if tenure reunions were done like that. That'd be so fun like awkward. Prom stood my ten year. School reunion was at a bar and a new moon. You went to as babies and stuff. So they're like the we we don't have we only have a sitter like during workout roaming michelle reunion league. I said i would fall for that. Oh that's the real world. And i'm so puffy sleeve steve. What was your union lake as like a bar and we actually went with my best friend from ice. I keep in touch with two best friends from high school. Those pretty much. The only people that i hung out with at all And so me and her went and it was so fucking boring because we were like. Oh yeah we didn't talk to anybody and so we just left and went wine-tasting. How many people actually came a good amount reliably like. It's probably like a fifty to seventy five. People are schools wild like we found out years later the asp woman and her daughter that ran the aspca student store. Whatever it was student life student body whatever so they handle the money for like what school dances. And all that ever it turns out they were embezzling money. Also i think they got a rusty that kind of money for schoolwork we bore schools. Don't know how you raise money for prom. Did you have to do that. Yeah threes many. I like ours was like don't raise enough money instead of having prominent hotel. You're going to have it at this. Like barnes shitty raise enough money so we had it a bar and it was really stressful. So i wish we had something to relieve your stress thinking. What do you got. Just we have a brand new sponsor this week and i'm so happy because this is when they told us that they wanted to sponsor so. It's like yes yes yes. They're so cool. This is faira gun. I'm sure a lot of people that have either either worked out or like to get massages have possibly heard if they're going to school therapist. Use them like trainers at the gym. Used them The way they describe it as kind of hilarious. It's a hand held percussive therapy device but what it does is it It's like a massage basically but it's like a really high quality one You yeah it's like punching you but like little baby fist punches. But it's amazing Every time i realized my posture has been really bad. Or whatever like i'll just. I'll start using something like this And i know that it works so like but this is like the best one. 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Tell her that you're going to cook for her. You gotta do you gotta throw away all the box and it doesn't look like it you know like it's just so easy right. Steve hella impressed when i cook. You really does because cook. He's like you. maybe he's hiding. My hand was held the entire way. I chopped things. I make my own pasta sauce on one of them. And i was impressed me because it's like a can of tomatoes and then all the ingredients that i like. I never knew how to make the sauce. I was like. Oh you're lycos. Damn i would marry me hell. Yeah that's look steve right. You'll never to marry me. Never get to marry from looking for me. I think all men are lucky to be quite honest at all. yeah it's not true but Yeah so. I have lots of cats Non given up for adoption. They started getting going up for adoption. But one of them got ringworm and so now. They're all off the table. Like all house nikki. I've heard this book in like thrash on my elbow. You should check that out. Plus it's probably prostate cancer. But i don't know you smell toast strew. I don't know kind kinda mix of stroke smelting. We're lift your arm or something that one. But i never heard of the total burned toast. Can you were speaking of ringworms streamed with rhonda rousey swear to god i to. Dan sorta got going somewhere. Promise you i'll streaming with rhonda rousey and she's fucking jose we've played games. Yeah coming on our show that bring her. She's always like she's in vegas farm rhonda rhonda branding Honors show in vegas farm lake. Her and her husband are doomed. Say like yeah. Find those people absolutely insane. Sorry rhonda i still love you but i would love to hear. I love to listen to the insanity so do it. I like Everyone thinks i'm crazy. Because i could talk about crystals and all kinds of shit but more like a like a observer like i like to sit on i like to watch and then sometimes i like my chosen all right. You know food prepared pack at your house. You have like canned water and stuff. But i am more so like like to go on. A deep dive longer tastes like metal. I don't know but it's better than the plastic creating bacteria like dissolving dying. If if anything happens. I don't care anyhow. So the ringworm thing right yes. She was like she and her day fight. Russell like living for a living. So she's like here's one here's goule like ya'll she goes so my man got ringworm on the side of his face because he was like wrestling whatever on the mats and you just go rhino rose and then and i was like you know what rhonda if that's not romance. I don't know what it is. My man i don't want to. I'm absolutely disgusted. But i'm glad that they have sex. Bedroomed on is just because she put her elbow on my eggs. I don't know. I just like randomly have a rational elbow skin trying to blame a little kitten a little winter to use skins. Probably dry as hell. It's getting out there. I don't know. I've just never had that issue before. Then change that much fear and where you live too i do. I live but i live by beach. Yeah just utter rated a. arm. And i play soundscape on my phone and it's always a beach and you think of me like god just so lucky should have to hear that. Can you hear it from your apartment. No no she's where you can see water. I can see. Yeah yeah. I can see water. But i can't hear the beach incursion waves right outside of her window. I see there's water. Ice so i love my new apartment but the only thing is i still don't have a couch. I ordered a couch october eleventh. And because it's like a custom okay. i have to call myself out. If you guys have been watching for a long enough time. You probably saw the video. We did the sleepover with the light is of fizeau. Yeah those time it might have been in a different video but it was from that set of videos that we did where we making fun of a guy that had sex with down cow right and it poked you yes okay. So i went shopping for couches. And i and i was sitting on all the couches and i wound up picking a down feather because it was the best one in the store. I hope that i recognize has been watching. He's like as watching. I don't think i ever even told them the name of the show. You'd have to do a lot of digging. And i don't think he cared that much but his down for the couch was like a different fabric mine. I don't think it's gonna poke through because it's just like a higher quality fabric but anyway so yes it's shit but no so. I'm really excited to get my down for the cash. But i had zero couch. And i still have zero cowboy. You don't have zero couch. You have an mattress is set up an air mattress in my living room as a memory. I if you in my extremely expensive apartment. I because waiting for this fucking custom down for their couch and unlike in my head. I'm like no one sees this. No one knows about it but daily. I'm embarrassed by yourself by. Does your self conscious yourself in the mirror because of piss you live like i know my volume w here. Yeah he spent all your money. I know the pandemic like created some weird shortage of couches. It they said it was nine to eleven weeks for it to get deliveries shot themselves on the couch. Why toilet paper yet shortly. Couch cushions as. I don't know what happened but yeah i was very saddened. They okay so they did have some in october. The shortage wasn't as bad as it was like in the year. But like i of course picked the most difficult fucking one to order. So i have to wait to you. Have to talk about the other couches that you had in your pre guys. She returned to to couch angela. No return them on purpose. They wouldn't fit through the door. That's hilarious so no now. There's no way it won't fit like it's just a better situational waiting fucking couch. I've no council middle late december. That's crazy 'cause. I just ordered a couch and it's come on monday. Young and they came in these came in really add. Hit the same problem with the couches. The set that's why it took so long for us to upgrade and there's a ton of furniture right that's available right now like if you find the right thing. I picked the most difficult one difficult difficult. Fish gotta say just as house. Looks fucking spectacular. Req- right yeah and also. I love the branch sheets that i got on there. We'll get to that leader. A- you need to put these out later but you have to put the fuck. It was member at this. Finally twenty-one legally thirty four twenty seven thirty four thirty four. Thirty four yes. It's thirty four. I don't know why. I don't really like that number. Thirty three number. Yeah like thirty. Three is like three and four. Don't look good next to each other. Just are you around boy and then appointing boy boy around boy pointing. Boyd's not used to do my threes like so stupid if you're listening to all threes like the point and then the lady list and then down the point and then the curve. It reminds me of count dracula for some reason caller. I know what you're talking about. I don't know why talking about number shape in a long pandemic with us. This is what happens. This is like this. Flies off the rails. I actually think. I have so much going on that. Like my brain turns to mush. When i actually have to talk about it because i'm like who would pick a day like we're looking at real estate in las vegas right now. I'm constantly checking the real estate to. I know i honestly don't don't like the stress of it is almost deterring me from moving and it'll just make you take. The houses are so dope in lush. You're looking at so. I just want like every time i changed my mind. I look at the houses again. I'm like nope. I gotta go back. I gotta go there So i'm doing that. And then also fostering like a bunch of cats and try to get them homes and dealing with ring. Were one of them got adopted. A one friend multi is house right before she went to like some internment camp. I went to nikki's house like ground zero or something totally misread. That train hosts store. Oh sorry it's really sad me boy. She's having by betas. Picking on jesse fucking love this bridge. Okay change a thing about nikki thousand right before that because we were going to work on some stuff first thing. She sits down and like. How's it going and she's like trying to hold back tears. Because she's i don't know if i made the right to own this new paisley. Yeah it was like. I should have sa- swayed her decision like she was going for this one kitten and the nice switched to take the other way when now i don't know i like made the wrong choice by no initially want. She wanted kalou. Which okay get ready guys fluids like a sweet sweet little girl. She's like constantly checking up on her siblings and her mom and stuff. She's very very sweet. She's very cuddly and stuff but she needs another cat and my friend is like. I don't want her to get attached to my other cat. Because i need a companion because my cat left me from roommates. I was like okay. Maybe this one over here again is. He's like super fucking chill boy anywhere you put them. He just wants to be their faces. Soak soak you. He's like so dufy looking and he looks like a stoner like so dufy and like adventurous and he has loud purrs but then after she left so she got she was like okay guinness. That's the one and then she left. And i was like to make the wrong choice because guinness kind of lakes my cats would if he actually gets attached to that cat and qaluwa wouldn't of gotten attached to catch her. It was a big long thing in my head. And i went on a walk with steve and i like cried on the walk and then just came over right after the walk and i was like. I'm fucking everything we're all. Existence is like adorable exhausting accurate way to describe the right choice like cute and then like we still have damaged. See the video later of the new mom with the category house like clearly they love each other but it helped having you over because you needed someone to be like shut up. Sounds like you made the right choice. Knows like okay. And then i went into it more neutral natural state owned when i dropped a cat off. I don't know why i can't talk and And then the key like loved it immediately. He came out of his little. Like i'm home. And then he likes snuggled her immediately. We'll do that. The universe with lead you to make the right. You don't have to worry so much. True many were s. But i don't think you should foster any more cats because you nothing is good for you to motionless actually cried with that cat left. Oh cry cry and no bitch yeah Yeah when he's going to have the hardest time. I think letting. Go of the cats because the ringworm was actually a good thing. Because then you have to prolong it. Yeah true who got a lot of cats though. The cats are out isn't worms. That's another question because from if they've only been in your house leaving my house and they're all right they did go to the vet and got like spades. So maybe something happened there. I don't know the remorse. Spores are super contagious. So i don't know how long they live but leasing kittens just always have issues other year. Older yeah my cat is just getting worse. He learned how to scale up the curtains windows from attacks from above now yeah randomly jumps on things now like i don't know and then now that it's colder. He wants to cuddle even more at night so last night. All i get in the middle of the night is just like okay get closer you off man like he just tries to get so i don't even know anymore probably a kiss right. Yeah i definitely got something nelly just to get some shots. So that's awesome because one of my cats. She recently in the last few months. She has been the most cuddly bitch ever. And as soon as casey i settle in and our beds and it's like okay time to go to sleep. We turn off the lights immediately. You hear her like john. Vanish comes in between us. And then i grabbed her. Like i manhandle her and then she likes it though and she's just like put her under the sheets and she just off like cuddling with her and then by the time. I'm about to fall asleep. It's like she tucks me or something because she's like you're sleeping okay. And she leaves does away jumped out which my voice. I thought it was a folk showed the boy. My my cat does this thing. We're like okay. Pretend the on the cat and you're like big spooning me okay. So i'm laura y'all got to watch this one. Every night he goes. Oh cute against knows. Yeah yeah so he does that. And that's how we falls fucking adorable. So cute i take some time to brag about something. Progress your merch. Yeah yeah. I released my merch a few couple few weeks ago dude. Like it's fucking insane month. Yeah year the last three weeks. A fucking crazy so like i have like a childhood trauma get ripped open because i saw a motorcycle accident right in front of me like that was bad and it was like caught on my dad's camera and that's like a really sensitive part in my life is also very close to me from a motorcycle. So i'm like. I get random panic attacks of motorcycles zipped past me from behind now like when they're there. I don't like a problem with that before. But now i do now so that happens and like i told you gentlemen dude. I think i'm losing my mind because i had a full on breakdown and then and then a few days later i released my merge and i was like okay. I'll probably sell like a little bit. You know your some myself thousand dollars worth of stuff. I'm happy and then it just went nuts. Twenty two hundred dollars. Docket right yeah. That's so yeah so like the ceo of the company that was doing. He's like do. This is probably like our biggest release we've ever done and like we have to work around the clock. He's he said. In the morning. I had a meeting with my team and said let's print out like maybe like twenty extra shirts just in case you know we get over orders but what ended up happening was his team had to stay round the clock overnight and he had to come in overnight in order pizza and drinks for the team to work. And he's like this is probably our most successful launch. Everley your setting. And i'll just so like it was after session insane. We just a huge crash of emotions got happen. And i was like holy shit like things can still be good when boss so like now and then. They're so excited about even on the same day they're like we wanna plan the next job now so then we We are releasing on On my clothing is now being printed on champion clothing. Oh yeah as doing that now when you sell good shit and you can still like a more stuff. Quality print like clothing. that's amazing. yeah so now we're doing champion and We're releasing black. Friday and older designs are amazing. And i love them so much time and then i love that shirt that i got because i assure and a sweater but the shirt with the snake. It's so fucking cute. I didn't even know about that until you posted it because You never posted the villain in the dry fast. One quite proud of that one. I kind of want that one. But put it on the beam w dub it's like the universe restored balance in your social well-being and all that because i play video games. You know what else is great video game. Ooh an app game a mobile missile game. Thanks gino Best means you know. I absolutely love this game. I've been playing best means for many years now. It is super cute mobile puzzle game that has like these cute little themes and you collect all these different kinds of fees and you use these means to to conquer the slugs like you're using each fiend has like a little power and you kinda have to figure out which powers you need to complete the puzzle and i'll conquer slugs yeldham essex. Just definitely will kill mosquito with their hands. No but this game is freaking. awesome too. Because you don't need service like you could play whenever your phones on airplane mode or whatever. You don't have any wifi in any of that stuff and it's also the graphics on this game is so freaking beautiful like i really love the graphics on this game. 'cause sometimes deals mobile games. They look like cheapie. And you're just like oh really this. This is what what i'm going to be playing with. No not what best means though so. You can download free today on the apple app store or google play. That's friends without the our best female wien means any goal from bed. And you know what. Maybe you should upgrade your sheet sets while you were so excited. Her another news sponsor is so great. Gino you have to do with these sheets on your bed. Holy sheet totally. Well she it seriously. A game changer. A game chaser upgrade. Yeah attitude sheets attitude. It's sheets with an attitude. The sheets are made with bamboo. And i don. I haven't even looked at the bullet points yet. Because i'm just like obsessed. I also got them in a dark gray color so it looks luxurious to know okay. Well i mean in addition to me know what you want but it's dark gray in normally. I'm always white with my sheets. But i was like go are feeling fancy and i feel like a queen in my bed They're made of bamboo which is a really breathable fabrics. So when you're going to bed if you get hot at night like it's it's not gonna keep you hot. It's going to cool you down but if you're cold it'll bundle you so it's a perfect fabric and If feels kind of like almost like a satin silky. When i heard bamboo sheets i never thought they would be the saw. Yeah was surprising there. So saw and i have never been a flat sheet person before you guys use a flat show i do. I usually throw it in the linen closet and never seen again. But i put it on just because it felt like the right thing to do right choice. I think you was a word. I love taking a bath and then like you shave your legs everything. So and did he slip into. The sheets is so freaking great. I just. I can't not be in bed. He's grown woman. Cheese are grown as not your adult highschool disgusting bedsheets target deserve better. You ever go to a guy's house in college or high school and he has a dark blue sheets. i feel like t shirts. yeah Turn on and right. Now you can get twenty percents off your order plus free shipping when you visit attitude dot com each slash mood and enter promo code mood remember. That's attitude as an echo attitude order today for free shipping and twenty percents off. Your order edited dot com slash. Mood promo code mood by these sheets with this code. Because only my god i have not. I have not washed my sheet since i put them in. Because they're just that's gross. I know i know you. We've had a month. I need. I do not want to sleep in my bed. Old she got. You washed my put back on the same day. So that's how you actually put on life to gals multiple sheet so the other one can sit in the washer for a little bit same. I'm like i need a by another set. Do i start and finished task worth so. I think we're yeah not the normal. Okay whatever but last point from emerge i. I decided to use that money. That i made am either. I can't decide whether to just secretly transferred for it to my parents. My dad's account or so. He has a car that he loves his a sixty nine nova. That's sitting on the shelf forever. And he's been just kind of like slowly paying for them to work on it a little bit and i kinda want to pay off the whole thing's yeah isn't it and they drop it off at his. How do that for christmas or something. That's so sweet. But at the same time my my mom's is going to be like dude or we could have gotten groceries. So we'll thing i wanna. I want to see how much it's gonna cost. I yeah do both both both. I feel like the car. Fees shouldn't be more than a grand or two. Well it's doing. It's a frigging drag racing car. So i don't know how much things cost. But i have to do some research at you from city three hours away. I don't remember the shop names. So now i have to put my genus skills to use. Start stalking and hunting things down. Find them. Yeah find it and then tell them like help you. Your mom can't help. Abc wants to be a secret and then on christmas. I'll just pull up with the car. And surprise him with me inside. The car would be pretty. Dopey shivers god. he's terrified. Is it that fast stupid parachute in the back to slow it down. Oh my god yeah doing street races like drag races. Yeah yeah yeah so look like a drag race. Go right now back in greece. I think i think he said like the company at lunchtime was. They actually came to the house to pick up the cars i think and he said their friends so i think they might be willing to come and drop it off for me to see. That's really cool. I'm so proud of you. That's so dope and those are first launched to wondering four. But i want to just a small capsule okay this for fun but this one actually had a company work on it with me and that was that was wild. Those a fun experience company. It's a gaming company. Yes they're called streamer loot dot com and they help streamers make merchandise. They're the third like the the middle man the filming bright streamers and stuff for you using cool checkout gina's merged to will put those corruption. Hey issue working with some designers on some champion merch. We supposedly everything that says dr fast. And there's a peach on that one that's super dumb. I'm surprised how many that sold in the car mats. Yeah and then that in your desk. Why didn't think that went all the way. I just love the drive fans. Yeah that's true moms. Excuse me stop talking about it please. It's cute cute thing about your dad. Eating google drive fast. I made the wrong choice. So anything new to Christmas plans me every year over christmas. Trees up you. i don't. I'm waiting for a new cow so next week. I'm putting my christmas tree up. I've all the ingredients to make mold wine because couch to couch. And i had my kristen drew tree. You'd know couch but it's in the window. So like i was walking around so i saw it in the window. Well everything else is. They're just cow but So yeah. I was walking my dogs and i looked back up at the window and i was like. I'm the only one with the christmas tree. I wonder if the weird crews probably not enjoy it. It's like like if i were to walk by. Gm like that'd be definitely has a couch in their good job concern. Looks like she definitely has no. I bought All recently about this inflatable christmas tree. That i'm planning on putting in front of the over one of the house because inside of our actual home. There's no room for christmas tree. Our houses fucking tiny. So there's no way we can fit a christmas tree but we we do. An employee are cats. They always fucking tear it down. But we do have a mini tree that i put out every year and a whole bunch of christmas decorations already brought the box out. It's in the living room. But the reason why. I'm not decorating because i'm gonna use the the the decorations for his wing. That's why i'm not gonna use them up on my house. I also like debris anything to said doodle trick or treaters this year. Yeah really. i'm in an apartment. It's locked on every floor. Your house crazy. Did you have any like decorations lights now. Coming to your home was going to walk up to stairs in my front door. Yeah it's pretty crazy more than two weeks america. We're not doing so you got a good amount. No not a good amount or doorbell rang. Maybe five times and some of them are repeats. Well because the kids in our immediate little community because we live in a brand new community of like forty home so everyone there we like practically all moved in at the same time so we all know whoever has a little kids and they everyone that had little kids they all kind of formed one group and so they were just like going around the neighborhood and they just came by our house. Let's do a second lap because you candy company. Yeah junior ninety s when the streets were filled with so far we were on. There wasn't a pandemic. I mean even before the pandemic. Yeah it reloaded dying down. O over the years like me. Taking isaac every year. I'm always like this. Is all the halloween less community. Based i feel like now maybe the more woke to getting poisoned or people being patios. Yeah my fucking snickers bar. Snickers bar restored. Come up when he has different thanksgiving. I don't know vegas to look for real estate holidays. Just don't hit the same anymore in this pandemic dude. Yeah halloween like was. a blip. Didn't even happen now. That's that's how thanksgiving is going to be for me. I'm going to order like a. Thanks giving tv dinner something and then. I'm just going to be at home by myself. Studying come over. Are you going to cook in. Casey's gonna show for sure. I i think i think we might be having other friends over. And they said they were going to bring turkey so both. There's too many strangers. I don't wanna get colbert. Go to her house and she gets it. You'll still get it. I don't want to get it. I wanted to get in get home. You don't be the first one. That'd be embarrassing. They'd make fun of you. So hard water i. This is probably old for you as we. We are recording at a time. Where the just announced that they might have a vaccine for right Wait really. They've been talking about it for weeks. Well this announcement yesterday pfizer. Yeah nicer how funny all of us all of a sudden. I knew it was. I called it to everyone was like tin foil hats. Always there. Trump said it was almost ready. Yeah i like. They've been talking about it for a week. But i'm letting the people take it. I see what i'm saying. User kinda just get your own falls off. I'm glad i didn't try that. We don't have armless. People don't have govan selected to because like for christmas time. Usually we go to dallas to spend it with casey's family and this year. I'm like i don't know i don't know if it's okay to to fly yet. I don't know what's i don't know i'd just feel really conflicted and then right now like casey's parents say took another trip so i'm just like well. They're okay going international yeah. They went to brazil. That's insane or they're scared at all their old scared. Yeah well i mean also they already got it. Oh that's true. Yeah and they're fine. And and so. I don't know like we were going to compromise thing where we would meet in san antonio and no no san antonio you settle paso el paso nothing to do. I know we could both drive there. And it's like a road trip and we meet in el paso and at least no one's flying but then they've been flying. But then i am i the one. That's just like making a big old deal because i don't wanna fly like should we just fuck and go there. Eric blake getting fucking virus all over them. You might as well fly because that drives sucks. I did that drive to texas. It's not fun. No and then also they're going to be coming in january two. La for a work thing. So i'm like well. I'm gonna see them when they're here any way might as well like being careful. Don't even worry about what's easy for sure. Flying is way easier though not going at all smart. Just doing your house. You're gonna see them in january anyway. That's only like a month and a half after thanksgiving. Yeah but then. Also i'm also conflicted with like we'll fuck i really. I really miss them. And i would like to see them twice in a year. That's true so like do your feelings amount. The amount of work it takes to get there. They has to be equal to me. I think about that every damn morning. Nikki three more like philosophy and see you're going. I had a day job was like really need this job. Every time i wake up like how bad do i need this fame and it's also i would always push boundaries and mike if i do this. Fire me right right. They didn't fire me hurt. I feel like are you still in the walk in freezer because like in a restaurant Sanctuary all the produce. Because i couldn't have one grocery raspberries. I love raspberries love raspberries and they're expensive. And so there was a mixology bar fucking red wing hold is shift. Twenty minutes started off. I stole like a couple of operate came to a point where the whole creek is empty. Maple that's what happens when you dabble in sin to count as a laws. But i'm just like okay on the inventory they just go oops spilled some raspberries. Do that reminds me when i got home town buffet. I always take like popcorn or popcorn. Shrimp ling here in there i had a little little basket in the employee room. Like in the locker room. So i'd just be skimming off the top. I mean the cooks was always gave us. Yeah old restaurant. They did that but on this one more corporate one and they were just like pretty corporate control their cooks and horny funny you because they work so many hours and so they don't ever get a home life and they are just that that's a that's a constant and any restaurant. You goes through. The cooks are very horny. This is who makes parody funny videos of restaurant life. And he always has the cooks as the hornets. Yeah hey sweetheart. You're the new hire. Let us know if you want something to eat or right. You have a boyfriend things true now thinking about it. 'cause hotel was the only restaurant job i had and they were very early and never thought about that. 'cause i was sixteen. There's been yeah sure banned. Yeah anti cultures the horner their true one of them bought me a necklace. One time we'll aloe valentine's day is very cute. But i was. He was forty something. Oh yeah are you sure. And he was like Forty year old necklace to a very young woman necklace players. Like yeah like definitely not real diamonds or anything like that. It was just like a cutesy little necklace. They secondhand. I'm disgusted by. I love my interaction. Probably maybe like law. Thanks do my boys were the best like my five foot. Two mexican busboy. Older ones. I fucking love them so much so sweeping worked so hard. They're also nice to me. I love them so much. I miss a restaurant life. Sometimes when you're talking about the school nostalgia. I have restaurant a bar or restaurant So much fun. I'll be so different now right. I was getting nightmares about that too. Were like i don't know the where my tables are. Then i find out. They're all sat. And then i can't like the diet. Coke machine is not working and then everything tips over like people are mad at me and the restaurants are a little bit. Definitely more nerve wracking. I feel like bartending. Even though there's like always a thousand people in your face waiting a drink you all you have is just your fucking bar. I don't have to figure shit out you. I love how like every group like it was only the the servers the bartenders have their own little clique. Yeah and then the our host is. We all had our own little clique to but then when shit goes down altogether so fun. That's so fun. Like during the rush doodle lady made me cry one time be nice to your hostesses and waitresses out there. Trying their best you'll be servers in anything like in in customer service periods to the customer. Sometimes they're not nice sometimes are not nice. Yeah i rarely across that. You're the one that's being mean to people. Are you the one. That's being normal. But i've just had hostesses and stuff be like other reservation. Know what's the way and they're like it's like four hour. I'm like okay. You just don't wanna lead me in all right. I remember i went to take louis and then i I was getting a cup of coffee with my friends really quick as i. Can i get a cafe could. That's what it said on the menu and the server goes what i'm like. A cafe ole goes want you say coffee with milk. I'm like because it says on your menu cafe isn't there isn't weirdest thing ever heavier your manager because hoverer is actually a friend of mine there no and then he was just like. Oh yeah. i'll get your coffee and we. Why would you expect to sell something co cafe. Au lait but the customer has to be cool and say coffee with milk. Oh my gosh hi was. He knew he was. He was trying to tell you being pretentious. I don't know like i'm just reading. What's on the damn menu. Yeah so it's going to be assholes. There isn't hostesses hosts though is to love. god bless him kind of similar to like the starbucks. When you're like. Oh can i get a medium like demon guerande. Mash twin five encounter to starbucks person. Who really gives a shit if you call it the right thing anymore these days but i remember the beginning ago. They did care ten years ago. Getting my name written wrong on starbucks. Exactly they mickey vicky the all fucked up. It's like an i. C k i e. Y the. Just trying to ruin people do that. If it's like a middle age. Karen that spells her kids name all weirdly. Mckay lay only time will fucking name all weird. Calm down baby cairns that do that beat the middle aged cairns are still amateur karen karen. That's right that's right that's right. Yeah all right guys well. This has been an excellent time. Catching up a random random but let us know what you've been up to. I think it's fun to check in every once in a while because there's so much going on all the time in count chocula number. Three's right you're threes. they say they can determine. If you're sociopath by the handwriting's we love you. Wanna get like a psychologist to screening. Needs to imagine he leaves so he's just like oh wow. I think you'll have a be sure to subscribe in the greatest gina's merge we love. You was five stars you fucking you.
EP. #25: Jonathan Aujay - Devil's Punchbowl Natural Area - California
"And. Thousands of people have been studiously benched in America's wilderness. Join us as we dive into the deep end of the unexplainable and try to piece together. What happened? And you are listening to locations unknown. What's up everybody and welcome back to another episode of locations unknown I'm your co host, Joe Erazo and with me as always is a guy who can burn things with magnifying glass at night, Mike Van de Bogart. Thanks Joe. I thank to everyone that's tuning in once again to locations unknown a no new updates this time, but I'm just happy to see that society starting to open up again. And businesses are slowly reopening here in Walk Joe Tomorrow. Bars are opening for the first time. Several. So. Excited, how's it going on your? We might have to do an episode after a night out at the bars. Yeah that'd be messy. If. He's not much different than their normal episodes. I guess. I'm glad we're slowly getting back to reality. You know barring all the craziness that's happening outside of the craziness that was already happening and hopefully new crazy happens. I am just ready to write twenty twenty off. Yup, well, let's let's get into this case and you can just think about something other than politics and all the crap that's going on. Exactly ALL RIGHT EVERYBODY! Let's gear up and get out to explore locations unknown. June Thirty eight year old Jonathan, OJ Traveled into the Devil's Punchbowl, natural area northeast of downtown. Los Angeles an antelope belly to go a trail run. Many witnesses report seeing Jonathan that day whoever he never returned home. Join US this week as we investigate. And Deputy Jonathan Oj in a possible conspiracy that points to his disappearance. Devil's punchbowl natural area is a Los Angeles County Park. It's also within the San Gabriel Mountain. Area and is a part of the Angeles National Forest so if you look at a map, it's actually surprisingly close to downtown La. Closer downtown ally. It always shocks me when you you look at a map of the Greater Elia Metro area. A natural space they do have kind of mixed in with extremely density. Is, so dense yeah! Like I'm not saying that to be joke. I'm just saying like they CRA-. There's so many people in there, and there's like so much nature just right outside of it. It really is amazing. I think out of all the big cities in the US I think La's probably got some of the most amazing natural areas. That close to downtown, so yeah, this is another one of them. Devil's PUNCHBOWL so it is located south of the Pear Blossom Highway, which is California route one thirty eight near the towns of Little Rock and pear blossom. The Devil's punchbowl nature. Center is operated by the Los Los Angeles. County Department of Parks and recreation. That would be the sister group to Ponti Just as you're as you're reading off the road to I. Don't know if some people are either too young or don't remember the snl skits of the Californians. I don't even remember that. When they're just a bunch of like surfer, guys and they talk about California, and they just over-discuss out to get to places. Oh I! That it's like, just take the peer blast some highway down Sierra thirty eight year. Blast an UGG right there. Man I remember that now that is pretty funny. Okay I'm sorry. Go on! No, that's A. that's a funny little clip off to watch later. like I, said the Devil's Punchbowl Nature Center focuses on flora fauna in logical features of the park, and the center offers school programs. Parties Guided Park Tours as well as telescope programs with an eleven. The eleven inch telescope. so it sounds like a pretty cool place. If you've got young kids, and like we said it's, it's pretty much right in La, so the primary attractions of the park arts geological formations including the punch bowl formation of the new gene period. If you've seen pictures of this, it's Louis like someone punched a big hole in the ground and there's A. Like a waterfall going into it, yeah, the whole. The whole area is pretty cool. Look in. The Punch will is a deep canyon categorized by its plunging Sink Line I. Don't know if I said that right Joe. Yeah that's right, okay? v-shape folding of the Earth's strata caused by compression. said he punched the earth in exactly. Yeah, so the mountain peaks above the park. Are About eight thousand feet elevation compared to the parks and nature, center at forty seven hundred feet above sea level, the Punchbowl Canyon is two hundred feet deep at the Vista Point, so you know not. Nothing. I think you'd be worried about as far as terrain. Eight thousand feet is still. Starting at forty seven hundred, so it's not too gnarly. No and the weather in southern California's pretty awesome year round, so I don't think exposure is going to be huge issue. Well it's just like the hot dry desert ish type heat mid. But I, it's not like. Major desert like Joshua tree or something like that yeah! So yeah, like Joe said the weather for the areas warmer throughout the year typical. You know southern California, desert, hot and dry. So. That's kind of a summary of the devil's Punchbowl area and I'm GonNa jump right into the character profile of John. Shine was a canine unit dog handler with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. He was a member of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Special Enforcement Bureau before that he had been a paratrooping army special forces. So this guy was no joke. This guy's no joke. I'd say he's a highly trained. primary disciplined and. Probably great physical condition. He sounds like kind of a one your supercops. So the Special Enforcement Bureau handle. Swat operations for the sheriff's Department, and they also negotiate hostage situations and serve warrants. So John Worked Nights, so he could be in the thick of the action, and he's reliable and conscientious, seldom calling in sick or using his vacation time so. other. He's highly trained. Great physical condition and has a tremendous work ethic. Sounds like a you know just an all around. You know. Joe Yeah She I. Joe Gi John. John was six feet, tall, weighed approximately one hundred and sixty five pounds. At the time you went missing. He had brown hair and Brown eyes, and was wearing olive green shorts, with posits a light colored shirt, hiking boots, black crew, socks, and a blue and white or green and white baseball cap. He's also wearing a casio-brand running watch black oval-shaped sunglasses, and he was carrying a forest green transport brand daypack. John was an avid runner, an outdoors men. He regularly traveled to the Sierra on weekends for hiking and camping trips. And he staged more than ten climbing expeditions I'm out, Whitney the highest peak in the lower forty-eight so. This just goes back into what I would say. He's not only highly trained from a law enforcement perspective, but he also has seems highly trained in the back country. Yeah, he knows he knows the surroundings familiar with that type of climate and stuff he can hike. He can climb. He can pretty much do it all. Yeah, so as a member of the SAB running team, he competed against other local law enforcement agencies, and he also ran an individual races. The previous weekend he if you S. Deputies had completed a fifty mile marathon sixth. In ladies. I know that's crazy. I got tired thinking about one. I know I don't like running. Like. That sends me tired as well. In late June, he had planned to take part in Western states, Hundred Mile Endurance run a twenty plus our trek through steep mountain trained in northern California so. Guy Is crazy good. At running an. Thanks. None of that sounds good at all to me. I'd like to hike through a lot of that, but I'm not running through all. Hike through it over several days, not endurance for twenty hours straight. Yeah, so in the six months since he had qualified for the race, John had been going daily runs including trips a couple of times a month to the punch bowl. It was near. He knew well having spent countless hours over the years hiking running trail network the hours of physical training. He logged in his Spare time were in order to stay in optimal shape for his job. He believed he he thought it was his duty to give one hundred ten percent to the department so. We so just to summarize John as person he works for you know kind of a Swat team type department in the sheriff's department. He's Ex. Special Forces great physical condition. You know highly trained in law enforcement end back, country, hiking and climbing. And he knows the area very well, so. I was good. It's a good setup for. I think and and I'm not going to ruin it for you Mike and the end, but that's up for how someone like that could go missing an area that they frequent so often. Yes, if I was profiling people that I thought would have an issue. You know maybe going missing I. would not think of John is one of those people, absolutely not just even with even if he wasn't an ultra marathon runner and wasn't an accurate shape, just the special forces training. Yeah, the stuff they go through in the army, special forces would allow you to survive for a significant amount of time in the wilderness. Area? You probably don't know I you. Can I think you can be safe to assume that he is going to be prepared to handle any situation out in the back country. Your, whether he knows the or not, I think that's just due to his. Military Training. being such physical great physical condition also helps to. yeah, all around. I can't imagine how this guy went missing, but I'm excited to hear about Joe. All Right Mike before we get in the time line with just hear word from our sponsor. This episode of locations unknown is sponsored by PAYOFF DOT com. You've tried balanced transfers in budgeting, but high interest rates and unrelenting bill cycles. Make it almost impossible to get out of credit card debt on your own. Instead of another new savings technique. You need a clear path out of debt, and that's what payoff loan can do. A payphone is a personal loan backed by members center credit unions designed to help you pay off your credit cards with rates as low as five point, nine nine percents APR in loan amounts up to thirty five thousand dollars. There's no hidden fees and there's personal customer service support from payoff to help you reach your financial goals. Some of the benefits of a payoff loan may also include potential credit score boost one monthly payment and savings from lower interest rates. Rates so go to pay off dot. com slash locations unknown to learn more checking your loan rates won't affect your credit score, so try something new pay off your credit card debt with payoff and I'm LS ID, number, one, three, nine, six, eight, zero five. Not all applicants may qualify loans only available within the United. States and loans are not available in all states, payoff works with partners who originate the loans, additional terms, conditions and eligibility requirements may apply. More information is available at payoff dot com slash locations unknown. June Eleventh Nineteen Ninety, eight the day John went. He informed a supervisor to tell him that he didn't want to take a new position within the department as a firearms instructor that he was offered, and instead wanted to stay. As a canine deputy, John was a canine deputy for three years and his dog. Bosco lived with him at home. Early into his outing on that day John came across a teacher with a group of kids whose classroom he actually had recently visited with his canine. Partner Bosco John Stop to talk. He told the group of his route to the summit of a nine thousand four. Hundred Foot Mountain Balden Powell. Poll twenty miles off. He said he'd be back around sunset. And then he continued running, so we don't know exactly what time John took off. was in the records, but we know immediately that I just wanted to set up initially the things that was going on, so it's not normally a big deal that he informed a supervisor. Do you want a job as we go on? There's a lot of these little things that pop up that kind of make you wonder so. That's a little hint for the rest of the story, okay? so He's running around. The Gay comes across. comes across this classroom. He had recently visited all these kids and talks him for bit tells me what's going on. Later that day. Two employees of camp along the trail saw man fit John's description jogging in the direction of the Baden Powell confirming that he was still on track essentially. Okay now we're GONNA fast for two six PM that evening, a third camp employees spotted a man with green pack heading towards the parking lot. So now we're at the point where we have a bunch of people seeing him heading to his destination now we have a guy heading back towards the parking lot. Shortly after that last sighting, a nearby resident told the park employees that he heard a single gunshot in the Vince in the vicinity of the PUNCHBOWL. Saw? Arena Estella to set you up there, okay? At eleven pm that Night Debra who is. John's wife reported that her husband was missing to the Palmdale Sheriff Station as he failed to return after dark as promised and two deputies drove to the punch bowl immediately they discovered the truck, preserving it as possible crime scene, and call for the department search and Rescue Squad, which was deployed at eleven thirty PM. So the two deputies drove to the parking. Lot found John's truck on really really didn't mess with it, and they called other people in right away. We hear the report of a gunshot possibly at dusk. Like eight thirty. He's reported missing at eleven and the search and rescue team is deployed by eleven thirty Yep and they know it was they know. The shot was shortly after the other park employees told them because it was reported to another park employees, and they were communicating over the radio. So that's a pretty good turnaround time. It's a good turnaround time and you think you know what happened yet for that, and that's why like this one is. It seems very clear. Cut that either. He did something to himself or something happened, but it's going to get. It's going to get pretty crazy as we go on okay. So, I I wanted to set it up with. You think okay. Maybe something happened so now. We're on June twelfth because they started, they deployed at eleven thirty at night, so they're searching through the night. Searchers from the be joined the effort and that's the Special Enforcement Bureau from Los. Angeles as it. Three more search and rescue groups, the Canine Unit and the sheriff's emergency services details, so there's a lot of people out right away. Looking for John Yeah his his former partner on the SWAT team David Rathbun join in the search, assuming a John would reappear quickly John toughest as nails. He remembers thinking they'll find him and bring him out. He'll probably have a sprained or broken ankle. John's family members were confident. He be able to withstand the harsh desert. His father in law told the story about how John Scared off a five hundred pound black bear when the tour camping this year. Yes I mean this guy. Yeah, this guy's like he'll. He'll be fine. Yeah, that's what I would think and I am not even shocked here. He was scaring bears away. They're probably crying after the event. BEARS PTSD now. So as the day wore on, and we're on the the next day on the Twelfth Day were on. There is still no signs. Of John. His friends and family started to worry. David Rathman. That's his friend is quoted when OJ comes. didn't come limping out of the Wilderness within the first twenty four hours. We Got Pretty Ansi. So they searched through the whole day and started kind of losing hope at the end so now we're on June thirteenth. On this day there were searches from a nearby airforce base in Army Black Hawk helicopters deployed near Mount Baden Powell. While additional helicopters, horses, all-terrain vehicles, thermal imaging, equipment and infrared technology were deployed as well to search the punch bowls ravines in crevices, searchers were airlifted to mountaintops and some of the mines along the trail. Nothing was really ever found John, so they really they took out all the stops. And if you look at the pictures, there are a ton of places where one could potentially topple fog, it lost. I think of our our unfortunate One with Paul in Joshua Tree where he was just off trail somewhere in a little crevice, it took almost a year for them to find the remains. So. You're thinking about that and normally I would say that would be where we kind of leave it off as maybe something happened. Maybe the gun shot wasn't related. He got injured. Foul got knocked out something like that, but as we get into the theories and things. We started eating to include as where you can start really getting. What I always call going Hollywood on the story. So you, go ahead. My you know and I was GonNa, say In Yeah. I. Don't doubt that they probably pulled. All the stops out on during the search being that he was a fellow law enforcement officer. I think I mean. It sounds like they had everybody out there. And you look at the map of this place. It's not a huge park. It's not we're not talking glacier or you know yellowstone or something like that. It's A. Small confined part so in well defined trails too, so it's not like you're out on your own I. Mean I think it's? The fact that he ran into a so many people on the way, it's close to the city I'm sure lots of people go there a lot, so it's not like us out there. Well defined and yeah, highly traffic's so a few interesting items that we need to include Jonah's wife or married for twelve years, but we're heading towards divorce. They had a single daughter together. Who at the time of his disappearance was five years old? A month before he left his home for the last time John told Deborah that. They thought they should go their separate ways. An ultra marathoner named Vicky Davita whom John was dating said to investigators that John had told her. He planned to go on and overnight walkabout in the wilderness. Accompanied by a deputy friend of John. She spent the night in the PUNCHBOWL, calling for him, but nothing so John tells his wife. He's going for a run, but he tells his girlfriend who he's essentially leaving his wife for that he's going for an overnight walkabout. In the Wilderness John had hoped to move in with Vicky had requested she submit to an HIV test before the to consummated their relationship. Did she have AIDS. I don't know if they didn't stay, but like the fact that. It started paint. This guy is kind of a goofy dude. Yeah, like he's dating some girl. He's like all right before we contemplate this. I want you to do an HIV test. Vicki died in twenty ten. Related to I, couldn't find that, but that was mentioned in the notes. Okay, so in the first week after John's disappearance, the the department retreat this dog Bosco from his house and boarded him at a Kennel in Riverdale within two weeks. Bosco, who has seven died. A spokesperson from the sheriff's Department, told reporters. The cause of the was a ruptured artery, but his wife's mother was quoted saying Bosco had died of a broken heart. So that's the sad part, but the I think in all. Kinds of poetic in a way how those two must have been so connected? You've seen stories like that like where the dog like almost can't handle it or can tell something is wrong. So. Just a little tidbit, not really important the case. I feel no, but. It's interesting. Yeah, that's too bad for the dog It's amazing that they found it. Then it died well, it was it was the the dog wasn't with him. It was at his house. Oh! He didn't take the dog on the hike. Well, no, no okay gotcha. So the last thing Debra Remembers John Saying now. This is the morning that he was leaving to go to the punch bowl. The last thing she remembers him saying and remember Deborah's his current wife that they're headed towards divorce. Yeah, he said to her have a nice life. Tell chloe I love her and closes five year old daughter. So, that's a little eerie. It's not like I'm going to be gone for a day. Hike I'll see. That's likely I'll never see again. That's restart thinking. That's something you say. If you're going to potentially off yourself like something. This guy is not right. Maybe he's got some issues from his time in service or spending that many years on Special Enforcement Bureau with La in some of the areas in La that you can imagine the stuffy seen in Ben through. So you mix, those together could be bad. You know bad Juju and you have. What is it like twenty two servicemembers a day? Commit suicide on average like it's sad. It's a select number exactly so he's probably been through a lot of stuff. Now you you add and all that so you start thinking okay. This sounds like a guy who's going to go in the wilderness and a place. He enjoys and just be done with life. So Debbie spoke to a private investigator to find out whether John was cheating on her, but she did abandon that line of inquiry after learning that it would cost her five hundred bucks soon. She began to think her husband's goodbye scene like that of a man planning to kill himself. In retrospect she thought John had been acting differently third, cold, intense look in his eye the final time she saw him and a month before during an argument about their relationship, he held a loaded gun to his temple, as he drove on the freeway and he screamed. What do you want me to kill myself? Shocked ever burst into tears in the passenger seat. I would say that's more than just acting a little strange. There's a stability issue there, so something's going on this guy's life I, you know I. I don't think it's normal for people to hold loaded gun to their head, and no, not at all that yeah. Car a freeway. Lia. Than just acting a little differently, but maybe you somebody acting strange if they they're like that way for a while, I don't know that just seems. Incredibly bizarre to me. Absolutely? On top of it! You have this thing too, and this is something that's very typical, or at least I've seen of people who are to commit suicide, and they started giving away personal belongings or things that they feel belong to them, so he packed up his running metals as well as climbing and hiking memorabilia that he had been on the wall of a spare room and return a family heirloom bookshelf to his in laws. John also gave a gold necklace to his to his father's of his father's me to Davita and that's the lady he was on who who's dating, yeah? So. He's giving away all of his personal stuff to people he cares about. So that's going to bring us into the full theories, the Elliot's Sheriff's Department believe the most likely committed suicide. They jumped right to the suicide. Family members did not believe that John would commit suicide because he was so close to his daughter chloe. It's quote. His brothers quoted. I never believed it for a minute. The. Guy Had too much pride, said his nephew. And I'd put that back. I'd put that on the back burner and rule it out Scott Griffiths a close friend who frequently went ride alongs with John, felt the deputy simply had no reason to kill himself. I mean he had a zest for life. He recalled how his friends seemed happy about the new relationship. You starting with Davita so now, that's where you can start twisting. About. Maybe he's not going to kill himself, but he is just done with his current marriage. I'm not saying it's good thing. Thing but his coldness and the things he's doing. Are More pointed towards maybe he's just done with his wife, and he's giving those things away to cut ties with that, but then he's giving his necklace to his potential future father-in-law, the or N. in. Trying to move on with this other person. I. There's that I mean yeah. I guess you could. You could say that you know friends, think he. He had a zest for life. But I still go back to you. Know incident like holding a loaded gun to your head driving down the freeway. That that's not. Somebody that has zest for life. That's somebody that I. Think has a mental condition. Yep, and devil's advocate to and going along with what you're saying to a reminds me also of when you hear people that threatened to commit suicide or not typically the ones who do it. It's the ones who you never suspect would potentially do it, and it's. It's another sad true aspect of that when sometimes people are. Not Well, they don't show signs of it or they're very minute signs or things like that, so there's still I'd say it's not off the table. Based on evidence of witnesses of what a witness heard. but the still what? What would baffles me? And I don't WanNa get too far, but if he did commit suicide along the trail. Why didn't they find him? Yeah exactly I mean unless he committed suicide by jumping into a ravine or crevasse or something. You would assume that he would have committed suicide in A. Fashion that would have left his body discoverable, because usually end, go and you look at the gun shot. If it's the gunshot did that. There would be all the things that happen when he shoot yourself. It's not like you can hide that stuff. And they were searching form within hours, and they had dogs out and things like that, so it's there's that. Leave it at that. We'll keep moving on because there's a lot more other stuff that's going to start happening here, okay? So there was a theory. The Jonathan had been killed by fellow deputy. As part of a plan to hush up links to the meth world The Los Angeles Sheriff, Special Enforcement Bureau had been embroiled in a long legal case and investigation, relating to corruption, involving math, production and trafficking. There were rumors circulating within Antelope Valley stations that deputies were warming warning meth players of pending drug busts. In the early nineteen nineties, a five-year internal investigation led to the indictment of thirty five deputies who stolen millions of dollars from drug dealers FBI video surveillance captured a surgeon and to narcotics detectives, taking thirty grand from a drug dealers hotel room at a detective assigned to the elite narcotics team was arrested for hiding one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in stolen by colleague. So there's your starting to get into that corrupt cop type stuff. Yeah, it started to change the narrative of what possibly could have happened. Now that to me is very believable You've seen this play out in a lot of big cities across the country I think of the. TR-. Yeah, the movies, but I mean even actual documentaries I can't remember the name of it now, but it. It follows these cops in new. York City I think in the eighties and similar kind of stuff they would steal money off of. Criminals during arrests. They were selling drugs and. All this kind of stuff and so. I can definitely. See something like that one possible theory to what happened to him. He got mixed up with the wrong people, and maybe he went to meet someone in. The Punch Bowl. And House went south and now he's. Missing all right well I'M GONNA. Keep going. Don't don't don't so. It shut just yet, Mike. You hear a lot more information. Okay, then I wanna I wanNA get a raw. Read from you before I tell you what I think right a few days after John Vanish, a woman linked to antelope. Outlaw bikers called the sheriff's Department to report. She'd heard that John had come across a meth lab and was taken care of quote unquote. Then a tip came in from an informant who said a biker dealer claim that. After the deputy discovered something on his job, he was going to be a hero and was taken care of before being put in a whole. Okay separate investigations by the FBI by Sheriff's Homicide Detective in Operation Silent Thunder Drug Task Force which John had been part of turned up similar intelligence years later. John's former boss Mike. Bauer began to suspect that a different deputy. Someone who's now retired had murdered John. There were plenty of stories, but none were confirmed a woman claimed to know where his body was buried in a man contacted taskforce saying he was present when the deputy was murdered, a third person reported seeing John returned to his truck in the devil's punchbowl parking lot at dusk before walking back out with his backpack in the in the direction of two armed bikers. The witness then heard screaming. Deputy Randall Randall her. I'm a butcher. This name now herb early. I think that's what is insist that. When he arrived at the punchbowl after John was reported missing, he spotted a snub, nosed thirty, eight caliber Smith, and Wesson Revolver on the center console the truck. And he's quoted. No deputy back then would leave their gun visible. The chance that a passer-by might see it. Break into the vehicle and use the gun to commit. A crime was too high. It's just it's not just a red flaggy says it's full on fireworks fourth of July. He says he reported the gun to the others in the site, but the official missing persons flyers stated that John was likely carrying the gun. My recollection is that we could not account for his to introver- says Dave saw sour. The sergeant who led the search. Now, this is where the story and conspiracy gets crazy. It's I know there's like I just there's so much information you come back to it, but. I actually let's recap now because I'm going to give you, some other stuff is later so. It looked like clear cut suicide. Yeah, then it then with a couple more things of information looks like he might be entangled in some underground stuff and got caught up doing bad cop stuff. Yeah, then new information comes. It makes it seem like he actually was good cop in potentially got killed by. Meth lab, people, bikers or bad cops for trying to out. Bad COPs yeah. So, I like to always pretend that the people on our show are good people so right now. I like the idea that he was going to make some big bus and he's super cop like Dwayne. The Rock Johnson from Baywatch. But he wanted to be one or he's acting like one and he's GonNa. Go take care of this because he's a bad ass. You know he's. He's special forces. He fights on affairs and it just didn't work out for him, so we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA. Stop there any comments before we go forward. No, I at first, I was I was leaning towards suicide, and then as you were talking about you know. Maybe another deputy killed them using entangled in. You know the Meth underworld that seem pretty plausible, and but I I like the good guy. You know he was a good guy that was in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Similar to our our first case, exactly so yeah. That brings us right back to episode one with Paul Yeah. So as I said, this is the story and conspiracy gets a little crazier. In May of twenty and eighteen now or later, in the Year Darren, Haggar Party a deputy with Los Angeles Sheriff's Department received a jury award of four point five million, upon they're finding that Haggar was wrongfully terminated terminated in retaliation for looking too closely into this disappearance In December of nineteen ninety nine. Hager arrested a man who offered to become an informant at five major methamphetamine, manufacturers and distributors Antelope Valley. He not only provided leads for ongoing drug investigations. He reported a rumor that a certain deputy was involved in awe in John's disappearance. Then in January of two thousand. LSD homicide detective received permission to reopen the case, and after three months of investigation, he concluded that another deputy was involved in the drug trade, and was the prime suspect in the murder of Jon allegedly, the homicide captain refused to authorize a search warrant took the detective off the case in threaten to terminate the detective if he continued with that case. So in March of two thousand. A joint narcotics task force was formed harding the major meth dealers in antelope valley. Haggar was the LSD member of the DA taskforce. Now this is the guy who later on you're in twenty eighteen so just. A few years ago was awarded that four point five million for be. All this. The van Assistant Sheriff Larry Wally Ordered Hager to investigate the narcotics with the DA, but to only document not to investigate any information obtained on John or any corrupt deputies, which was to be later, turned over to homicide or the les. The Internal Criminal Investigation Bureau. Haggar considered the DA task force investigation an enormous success. The eleventh month investigation led to two hundred ninety state arrests and thirty two federal convictions for narcotics, manufacturing and trafficking. And as he was instructed Hager said he turned over the information, he obtained relating to John and any corrupt to his lieutenant who transmitted up the chain of command. Hager said he was the subject. He was then subject to an eleventh month. Investigation by Internal Affairs Bureau which he contended was retaliation for reporting the information about corrupt deputies. On July, twenty, eighth, two, thousand three. He was terminated from his job. Than filed lawsuit with L. A. County Superior Court against the sheriff's department in the county for retaliation wrongful termination. He argued that since he was hired. In February of Nineteen Ninety, eight, he was rated outstanding for his last reviews, ninety, nine, two, thousand, two, thousand one, and in two thousand and two, he went to Washington DC to be presented with the DA's administrator award for his work on the task force, and that such termination was improper. After Termination Hager said he was unable to find work because of the nature of the charges made against him, reckless investigation, disobeying orders and making false statements to superiors. The defense argued that John committed suicide, and at the supposed corrupt deputies involved in death, was disproven by the February to April two thousand and one homicide investigation of John's disappearance. The Defense also contended that Haggar falsely misrepresented and reported information disappears. That was allegedly obtained from both. And Federal Federal Wiretaps about the claim corrupt deputy. Now the jury as we know, returned the verdict in favor of Hager, awarding him eight hundred six thousand dollars pass lost earnings, one point two million for future lost earnings and two point five million for non economic damages, totaling four point five million dollars. So, This screams deep state cover up at the. Level in California law enforcement. Yeah. I mean that's a very well could be a possible theory, so that's that's the information I have. I want to hear your thoughts on this. Okay well like we do with every case. I kind of going through the. Most likely. Do we think it was animal attack? Do not think it was animal attack. That area. Will Not doesn't have any predators that are gonNA kill. Someone of John Skill. Not. John. So I. Don't think it's animal attack. A I think a possibility is he had an accident fell? It. That would be I. Think I guess unlikely because he wasn't going out there to hike that he was gonNA run. Saying on the trail he wasn't going to be you. Know free climbing or anything like that, so there's no reason to expect that he was off the trail of Bushwack in around any fell somewhere so. Is it possible. Yes, likely probably not. I think suicide is a possible theory. The way he was acting with. You know holding the gun news had and Kinda the look in his eyes, and you know sounds like he's been going through. You know trouble with his marriage. he's giving away all of his stuff I think. Suicide is a very possible theory, but. I think it's also unlikely in the sense that. They didn't find his body I most the suicides we've read about in you know people that go out in the woods and commit suicide. They do it in an area where they they're going to be because they leave a suicide note and It? You know they're gonNA THEY'RE GONNA. Find the person if they do that Yup I. totally agree so again is is suicide likely I think it. It could be the way he was acting, but in this case I don't know if. That's what he was doing i. mean maybe he was giving away his stuff because he was just gonNA to disappear himself and move somewhere else. But so I think that's a possible theory. I definitely could see him being involved in. Maybe the you know under drug underworld and something went haywire and he was killed by a dirt, another dirty cop. I mean how many movies other about that Training Day There's another good one that I know. A lot of them are based off of not. Exactly how it happened, but they're based on true events or true stories of actual people. Yeah, so a lot of those a lot of those movies are. Loosely based on real events that have happened in the world, and to be honest, I a while back I I can't remember the name of the book now, but I read a book about how. The federal government or know certain agents in the federal government were literally shipping narcotics up from South America through Air Force bases in Texas into southern California and they were giving away fully automatic weapons to drug cartel members in tracking, but then they forgot track them remember that, so they just gave they just gave weapons away so I mean it's it's it spans all types of administrations from federal top federal down to local. There's there's all kinds of stories of that happening. Yeah, I think it was. It wasn't Iran-contra. It was the federal government, and this is all allegedly obviously nothing. I don't think ever will come out. You know definitively proving this happened, but back in the eighties, allegedly, a certain elements of the federal government were selling. Narcotics in Southern California to fund revolutions down in South America. And the spanned all various departments of law enforcement. really fascinating book, but so getting back to the case I think it's definitely possible that he was tied up in some kind of. A bunch of dirty cops are you know sullen drugs are? Taken taken bribes to. Give safe passage to drug dealers. So that went to. Surprise me at all and kind of your final theory that it's more. Deep state than just a couple of dirty cops that maybe the whole departments infected with people that are. Dirty and you've got these detectives trying to do investigations and they're getting shut down by their superiors. I. Again at that, that's happened in real life Yup. A lot of cops gone the jail because of doing that very thing, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that. He went to the punch bowl to meet some of these cops and they got rid of him because he's becoming too big problem. or He's about to go public with something or who knows so. I I like those. I'm on the train of either. He was a dirty cop in something went south, or he was a good guy and discovered too much and took him out. So, I'm I'M GONNA. Blow right pass all those other. To agree with you, know animal I. I do not think suicide I think he was acting goofy. I think acting goofy can be attributed to him. Either coming to terms, so I'm GonNa go to I'm going to go two routes here either. He's accomplished some the ferris things yawning. He started to grow a conscience at some point started giving things away, knowing that something bad could have happened and he was GonNa blow the lid open, and they took care of him yeah. or It's true deep state type stuff. And there's like the double the double edge of this, so it's either deep state stuff. And they took care of him because he was getting onto it, and he was being Super Cop, trying to end all the corruption and they're knocking. Allow that to happen. Yeah, and then this other Guy Haggar. Was Lucky enough that he didn't get offed when he started reporting all that stuff, they just tried destroying his reputation, but it sounds very obvious that this guy had all these commendations. He did such a great job. And then Isuzu turns and all this information on corruption in lapd all the sudden. He's getting all these well. He's a terrible person. He lies. He does all this crap It's very clear that's bull. Yeah, and that's an obviously. The jury thought so as well by awarding him four point, five million dollars and twenty eighteen. But Now if I'm going to go Hollywood on this. Please could also it could also be that he is now in witness protection program. Okay is helping to continue to uncover all this stuff. YEA, and his death was faked so that he could do this because honestly. And this is where I don't WanNa. Say It's too much. Hollywood and that does sound like a script to a movie. If you have corruption in the lapd going up the chain that high. That's no longer a local issue. That is a federal big deal department of Justice type stuff, and if this guy reached out to the right people now grit, and why is because? He wasn't special forces the military, so you know he's got contacts that are higher up in the federal level, so if he's seeing something going on. and He needs to take care of it. All the things he was doing was not necessarily suicide flags. They were I'm going to be gone flags. Yeah, and he knew he was going to be gone. And that's the one thing because if. Someone thought he was getting too close and followed him out there and did them in at the end of the night. Yeah, that's unprepared, but he seemed to be prepared to be gone. That's a good point, and that's what that's. What trip me because I thought about this quite a bit because like you can point to any of those things, but when you look at everything together if he's acting suicidal sound suicidal. It's either because he's suicidal or something. Else bigger is happening. Okay, so that means. He's not going to be surprised because he's basically preparing for something to happen, so he's either preparing for something bad to happen, or he knows what's going to happen. And he setting up his loved ones in the best way he can without tipping them off because he knows they're going to be interviewed. He knows that they're going to be questioned by the corrupt deputies and cops that he's GonNa. Be indicting potentially so basically he he knew one of two things. Is GonNa Happen? Maybe he knew that, either. He comes forward and he's GonNa go and wit sack. That's best case in your worst case scenario. They get to him first, so he probably under a lot of pressure. Leading up to when this was going to happen, you know there's probably like a date or a time in place. Maybe it was ill. That's I'm thinking he doesn't think something I'm leaning more towards. He knows he's going into wit second a certain time. Yeah, and it's almost like a man who's getting his affairs in order and his. 'cause when you read about him and his friends talk about him. He doesn't seem unstable until all the sudden. You're like all right a month. Before this incident. He's pointing a loaded gun in his head and screaming and his wife on the freeway. All the sudden changes start occurring, so he must have something happened or came across something, and he's working with federal government, and he's preparing to go into wit to basically out all of this and his way of doing that is basically what would look like someone who's about to commit suicide now? What if? Before it wit sack. Maybe he had to go to this location in the punchbowl to there had to be one final. Meet Up, get the evidence they needed and something went south and they shot him. I think that could be to. Maybe you made a wire and he was gonNA meet somebody. All Right? We need you to go do this one more thing. Then we'll have the evidence we need. You can go to wit SEC. These people go to jail in then he goes there, and maybe they were tipped off and shot him. I think that's that's very possible. Based on the testimony of those witnesses like that biker lady, Yep, from the outlaws and the people, so it's. I think there's a lot to unpack, and I feel like this Haggar guy too close and they. I mean lucky for him. He didn't end up fired punchbowl as well. Yeah, he just got fired and. It'd be interesting to see like like you hear about these people who claim to have told them that they knew where the body was, and they knew this and they reported it to. These cops and nothing ever came of it. Is it because they buried it? Yeah. Well So. Yeah that's interesting out of all the cases we've done, I think this is the first case where. There's really I. Don't think there's any reason to believe that. The wilderness caused the sky's disappearance. Absolutely not I've I've every other one of our cases. There's always been kind of a part of me. That thinks well. Maybe they could have fallen attacked by a bear or some kind of Predator or exposure, but in this case I don't think the punishable had anything to do with this other than he was there at a specific time for a specific reason, and now he's missing. Not One hundred percent agree. So I'll I'll just say with that I'm excited for because we've been getting as our podcast grows. What we what we do like seventy two hundred downloads last month or something like our biggest month ever. Yeah, we had our biggest month ever last month, and we were over fifty thousand downloads now for the show which it's a big milestone. It's a big milestone we never joan I never thought we'd. Get here and I mean after the first couple of months doing. We're only getting I think the first month we only got two hundred downloads. which was a big for us? But what I love about having this many people listen to the show is we're starting to get people messaging us their theories more so than ever before. Yeah, it's awesome because there's things people are saying that are our summer nutty. Some are funny summer just, but they make us think differently even like the crazies theories. They make a start thinking about things differently. I. I Apologize I can't remember the lady's name. She message. Charles? I didn't read the full thing yet. She wrote like a whole EPA. It was really good I read some of it and I was like okay. I got dive into this and we should totally let's read it and dissect it and do maybe even do like a quick short episode or something where we can. Yeah, it was. It was really good a great theory essentially. She thought that maybe he tried to hang himself in. That's why the clothing fell in kind of a straight. Pile on the right all right. Don't say anywhere. We're going to be like a shorty. I don't even know what we'd call it like kind of like the bear boy one. We'll do a update we can do. We do episode with a couple of updates from previous cases with the new like it. But yeah, before we go, we've got we've got two. More episodes will have one more kind of case related episode coming up, and then we're going to wrap up kind of the spring. Series of shows with a a really fun episode about area. Fifty one. Good Yeah we'll do as if you've been listening to us for the last since we started. We always do kind of a little break over Summer Aso's. We liked to enjoy summer. Get so little summer in Wisconsin. Yes, and be because sometimes we just need a break. Joe I know Joe is super busy. He's got a whole Brood of children. Lots of irons in the fire and you got a wedding to plan for Mike's getting married. Yeah, he's off the market ladies yeah. You've been off the market, but you're finally just getting married. Yeah, so that. Yeah, that'll happen later in the fall but The final episode will probably be released around the fourth of July and it's GonNa be a really fun episode on area, Fifty One. I'm sure obviously area fifty. One's been talked about for. You know add nausea. So why not added another voice into the mix? But we'll I'm sure we'll find with it. I'm sure we'll people. We'll do in our own little little way that we do cases like the Alaska. Triangle and Things like that, so it'll be a fun episode, and then we'll have some information and a promotion for playing cards coming up. And what else joe trying to think if there's anything else I've missed Oh. We had our first patriae on patron. Patriot Patriot patron, yeah! So We'll give a shout out to him in our post on facebook, but like we always say if you want to help the show out please feel you know head over to Patriot. We updated kind of the benefits at different levels, so Some of the levels will allow you know we'll. We can get on Zoom hangouts and chat about cases, and you know hiking back country hiking wherever you want to talk about so checkout Patriot. and. If you want to help the show, you like listening, know over there at the lowest levels a dollar so. you know I think I think if we have you know. We've got four to over fourteen thousand followers and facebook so. Everyone just gave a dollar each. We could really up the production value. Could go do this fulltime also do a part time? I feed six people again. quit for that. No, you need the jerome. Ever everyone needs Joe Rogan money. Are you kidding me? What are you getting? One hundred million dollars one hundred million. Yeah. I thought my post on. That was very funny. My wife didn't think it was that funny. I thought it was funny. Pretty, but anyway well, we appreciate all of you. Our loyal listeners and our sponsors that help keep the show going and remember when enjoying the beauty of nature whether backpacking camping or just taking a walk always remember to leave no trace. Thanks Elsie next time. You.