20 Episode results for "John Ross"

10-20-20 - Mo Egger With James Rapien

Mo Egger

26:38 min | 10 months ago

10-20-20 - Mo Egger With James Rapien

"Liberty delayed farms in racers, town steaks, chops, ribs chicken delivered directly to your doorstep liberty. Delight Farms Dot Com scheduled your delivery today fresh meats, rees right. I was up. Setting tweet. Eating peanuts. Normally the. Verge will use standby. Sorry I gotcha. Good. We're fine. We're okay. John Ross wants to be traded bengals maybe they'll trade him. The deadline is thirteen days away we spend. A lot of time talking about somebody who's caught fifty one passes in his career. And it's interesting to me. It strates how he has helped himself build a brand. Based on John, Ross because whenever I sent a tweet about John Ross even if it's even if it doesn't directly mention John Ross I tweeted that today there were spending a lot of time talking about somebody who's got fifty one catches inevitably invariably. People Clapping back at me you james repeated and I go hey, hey, hang on a second. I. Jumped off that train a while ago. My Man. James however full on the John Ross Express. And so because we're talking about John Ross today. You have to have James. Repeat, on the air it is tearing said it to me this afternoon John Ross is in the news. Got To get on James. Who is covering the Bengals for sports illustrated bengals. Dot Com is the website. He also is a part of like a thousand different Bengals podcasts and he's obviously on twitter as well. At James, repeat all bengals under the. Umbrella and He's also getting I, think some money is John Ross agent. So it's it's nice to have you here as always what's going on How you doing, I appreciate the introduction. No problem at all. It's good to have you. It's good to have you. First of all, they should go ahead and just them. Right. Sure they don't want. I mean. You. Saw Sunday let's just go back Sunday. Obviously it was a trio of receivers and AJ at his best game of the year title boy whose they're playing on offense right now until higgins who continues to break out in flash. But that fourth receiver spot has been awful the past two weeks and my Thomas fumbled two weeks ago last week or on Sunday router it's effecting technically this week had a couple of jobs and talk at some point I was like okay. We're going to see John and didn't and he was in for one play a run play. No one remembers it. I'm shocked I remember I don't even know John Remembers that and so you're not gonNA use them. then. You might world trade him for something even if it's a conditional seventh because what what if he does play enough snaps to get you that pick. So yeah, if there they don't have any plans. To incorporate him in the offense than why is he on the roster? Why is he taking up space Marzi getting in the way and I? You know that's just that's the reality of it and I think there's a lot of reasons behind it and I think you'll ask that I'll I'll shut up well. So here's here's the one thing I'll say about not trading him AJ played fine on on Sunday more than fine. He was he was really really good at the same time there's been a lot of moving. Parts at the wide receiver spot in. Aj every time it gets hit I hold my breath I think he's going to have a hard time getting up. He's he's an aging player who hasn't been that good. I would listen to the argument that says, well, you gotTa have you gotTa have some depth you gotta have some backups. You got to have an insurance policy especially against Aj Green getting hurt I would say to that though is that insurance policy is not very good at the insurance policy is John Ross. Sea in here's the thing is correct based on stats right to reception seventeen yards the deep ball week wine crossing out we to he didn't realize the ball was coming to him and that certainly on John Ross like he's inconsistent but we know that no doubt about it he's had some jobs as had some issues, but the problem is and I think there's A. At. least decent chunk of the fan base. That thanks to this it's not just me. You'd probably the one media member who thinks that. He's I. Don't know what the standard is for him versus like I said my Thomas who clearly Taylor loves. He had a couple of drops this week and then got the flat for a first down last week of fumble. John Troubles and it was tripping scored. I don't WanNa be in your mentioned that happens you know what I'm saying. So those are the those are the types of things, and so that's what leads me to. Maybe it is time and I get it. I've heard the argument to coaching staff. At the same time he did flash last year when healthy before and after his injury and I was hoping to get more than seven targets from Jonesboro if I would've told you this September I don Ross is GonNa be targeted seven times stay healthy through six weeks and being active through for three of them. That would be that would surprise. I would think right and so that's the part is he it's not like you see on burs around their slants or anything like that. It's people with them. The other things he can do and we haven't seen any of those. Era Coach. That scores three points in the second half of a game that you had a twenty one twenty feet in you're searching for answers I. Reminded seeing eleven more than once. Yeah. I mean like I. I see both of this I certainly understand the look he's had multiple coordinators to coaches for years like at some point, it's it's on the player it's on John It's an indictment against him at the same time for a team that should be desperate for for any sort of contribution from anywhere on the roster it. Is it is interesting to me that when he finally does dress and I could certainly understand why he didn't the previous couple of games. When he finally does dress, he's that absent from the game plan he's on the field for a snap that that is that is interesting to me and it shows that to me reflects a few things. It's obviously a reflection of John Ross. I. Wonder What that says about the lack of creativity I wonder what that says about the lack of outside think I'd obviously wonder what it says about their their desire to want to hang onto them if that is indeed the case. After the trade deadline. and You wonder too and maybe this is giving credit where credit is due. But what if they WANNA make sure his houses. So they can't talk because regardless of what is hasn't done early this year I think you are going to get team interested in that conditional pack right? We'll give you a conditional sex replace x amount of snaps the rest of the latch something like that because. They're only going to be so many receivers available. So many guys that you can take on that don't have another contract long-term that don't have big money or anything like that. They don't have to commit to, and so it would make a lot of sense to me. What are those teams to come calling contender and and so whether it's a I, don't know San Francisco whether you know, I'm trying to think the packers could certainly use a speedy receiver I'm sure there's GonNa be some teams that are in the market for a receiver and as far as receivers go he's probably one of the cheapest ones on the market. So why not call it might be simple. You call about green the bengals say known you're like, okay. Well, what about eleven? We'll give you a bag of chips for eleven and you know maybe say yet. Mike Brown does like chips so never know untie of all of them are yet Carlos Dunlap's did the you had to do that you had to write about Carlos Dunlap's instagram thing. I didn't have to write about it but I think you know a Waste. Of Time I was starving to. So it was just obvious thinking about foods all funding kettle chips I can understand that you you this is. Not The only person to say this by any stretch, it's time a guy understand will carlos dunlap has meant to the Bengals I understand with Gino. Atkins's mentioned the bengals. Those guys have been awesome huge parts of some of their best seasons of the there is no sense in carrying this marriage between this team in either of those two players beyond today. You're cutting them today. Yeah. What's the point what they're not helping you now the not a part of your long term neither are happy. One Dude is a step that a couple of different times to talk about how frustrated he is. He rolled perhaps justifiably. So the head coach under the bus talking about his miscommunication, what's what's the point in keeping those guys around? Paul. The first thing is is who says they? They aren't helping you the coaching staff and if so is that coaching staff apart of your long term plan? That's a good question. And so that. would be my question because. How much? Room and Insert whoever outside now I have full trust and I'm going to get a third year all of these things and it is just disgruntled veterans are Marvins guys but to me and I saw this in Cleveland during my briefs they when a cookie to coaches coach the browns. Fan. You sound like John Dorsey and it was all know those those aren't. He's guy. So you've gotta go get he has got and that's the last thing you. WanNa see and I hope we don't. But it certainly does feel like I don't know if it can aids thing or if it's a previous regime thing. And it's It's unique but yes, on the surface if. dunlap is a role player and Atkins role player and the bengals coaches at least have avenue admitted this on the record. It's been more of an injury thing right and he's coming back from injury if their role players well, then they're the most overpaid role players maybe Bengal history. So you gotTa, you gotTa consider moving than if can but I don't think they have much or any value WanNa talk about not producing this year you know between the two of them you have. I, think it's thirteen thirteen tackles and one sack and those are offered on that. So I get that argument but but we'll see I certainly think that that done that once out in June. Oh so quiet I, I'm not sure what he wants but I I would certainly assume that apple's about to be on a new team by November four I would I would wholeheartedly. Yeah. That's obvious that the the Gino. Atkins thing if there ever was a week that you would expect him to play a lot, it would have been last week when they're bringing in dudes at the last second or playing guys that nobody's ever heard of a again that they have to win in the guy stole plays only eighteen snaps and in those eighteen snaps you barely noticed he was on the field like there's your very fair and wondering if this coaching staff is going to be here for the long term, I don't trust Zach Taylor. I don't trust Luana Room Oh those guys have have built up no equity, but I would also imagine that. Any new regime. If we do indeed go in direction next year and it's still hard for me to imagine they will whatever the the makeup of the coaching staff is next season. They're probably not gonNa want either of those guys either age and lack of productivity do become a factor. For sure and that's why you entertain to me just thinking about it and. I went. I would play them and then worst case you know if you decide to go that route, you can't trade him but then fine. But the the other aspect of this is and you talk about trusting the coaches and whatnot. Yeah. If there was ever a game was gonNA play significant snaps. Even either not one hundred percent it was Sunday. Go. Why did they roll with Kristen Covington and a Mani bledsoe and David Williams who had just been signed five days or six as early right a pride thing with the coaches are they trying to prove a point because to me? No matter what you say. Eighty percent of you know Atkins, even at this decline stayed wait avenue I think he's still better. Than those guys that rating if they played in the city, the snacks that they played so and that's just me and so you really have to. Trust Trust The coaching staff you think Orange Hater Williams, the guy who was released undergoes practice squad should be getting more snap than Gino Atkins even at eighty five percent because he's coming disorder into. Can't can't argue with that at all where where would you and John Ross light to go if he if he's with another NFL team next year will you go with? No I will not go with. Out Yeah of course, come on now. Where we're here, you're stuck with me for a little while. Out Great for everybody here but you mean. John is playing for another team I didn't know if he was GonNa want you to bag man and that's it either. Here's what I want because he's I'm self no favors and I know I can. John. You know but I just want to see him get a real. Like you're GonNa say what do you think giving dozens of chances but you know people are saying that right now but a real shot just. You know if you had the drop, I received have jobs all the time just like they get the ball the very next plan. Your the very next possession and it's not the end of the world's feels like whatever he dogs. If the end of the world here in wherever he goes I. DON'T I. Don't you know wherever I hope he actually gets a shot in that aspect because I feel like that and he hasn't sent this to me but I feel like that's a lot of weight to carry on your shoulders. Everyone feels it from fans or between you and tag me through. The media and whatnot right? Like any time he does something it's like, oh Every time do you feel responsible for that? I don't I don't know I don't know actually. Does it feel. Feel to you would like folks sort of Reverend John Ross not succeeding because it gives people a chance to needle you. Know because I I don't think that You know again I don't think. A, lot of people made up their mind about Ross the night he was picked and not because they wanted to quarterback even everyone talks about that. Now 'cause no one was saying nobody was. Home. Nobody right now. What they were saying as. They should take the linebacker who hasn't performed. Who who who took he's in Washington. Now I forget his name, my mind in then you know Howard. Flashed a little bit this year but overall has been on the now so It's it's one of those things I think people already have their mind made up and I was so out there with it like, oh, he's a stud yeah. Of course you danced on video I still have it. You dance video when they got John Ross I was sitting in the chair that I in right now it was the right move. What about billy price at the time? WHAT ABOUT BILLY PRICE? No you mean Mark Jackson was the move. How much does that change everything? I wonder if is John, Ross Marquees Brown. To Lamar Jacqueline. What you're talking about five ten fast receivers well, maybe maybe I don't I don't I don't know I don't know. Kim? They should obviously trae billy prices. Well, there's saying. I mean sure if you can get something that's like people compare billy to John Lewis. John a couple of games billy ever been good. No no I've watched John Ross catch touchdown passes. I've seen that with my own eyes I i. don't I don't I've never watched Bailey priced thought hey, lightbulb is coming for him. In the thing with billy I'm not trying to be mean because I do think he's A. Backup. Center. You know I actually don't think they're going to trade him because. They don't view. Backup centers worthless like I don't know who else play enough with whether that's fair or not. I just I don't see that but I would trade him that being said has. Really been motion like Fred Johnson and a part of the offense like that. I mean Jake Fischer did that. Very valuable part of the offense. Hasn't even. Gotten. The billy prices eligible play yet no, that's that's a very very that's a very good point. All right. I appreciate John Ron Whenever John Ross in the newsroom were supposed to call you. It's part of the deal so. Thanks what you got all angles, DOT COM and locked on Bengals podcast the Bengals Bra podcast have you pick up a new one recently? Every week I host locked on NFL every Wednesday, it's more than national what's trending in the League podcast. But you know that I was thinking you were GonNa. Ask Me Having on my big Zach column about communication. Oh. Good. Let's talk about this. Would you know I like John? No. So let's let's do this because you're right. So here's my rub with the whole Zach Taylor communication thing. You can take the job on day one beat everybody over the head with what a great communicator you're going to be, and then be called out by a dude who's been in the NFL for a long time about being a crappy communicator like in that regard I'm very, very much team Carlos Dunlap. Go ahead. dunlap either and that's the problem here. I, think it is Gino I. Don't I don't think they're gonNA feel report that gene frustrated coup. If he knew he was gonNA play on third down mostly only on Sunday right I. think there's a lack of communication with John I. Think he was again this has me thinking I think he was. Surprised at his lack of involvement considering he was active last week and just probably asking virtually 'cause he's like well, what else should I do right now I don't I don't think he hates Cincinnati or wants out I think he wants to chance. In you UCLA AJ green the same way where it's just like. The frustration is boiling and I think part of it is a lack of communication. So when you have a coach who says my culture is going to be built on this and not only that it's one thing it's a data meet eighteen three and one with guys frustrated no, he's three eighteen in one and so. To me the heat is getting really hot here and Look at that schedule and it's it's crazy Neil helming and I don't know when you're losing games like that Philip rivers and making him look like it's. He's going against Carson Chad. Guys, and coming back the exact same way. He did fourteen years ago. That's that's scary. I on coaching. When you lose by as many one score games, there's many games you are so I think the communication aspect has been. I'm nightmare and you really gotta be direct and respectful of veterans. If you're going to bench them or the moat murder cut their snaps and and it's a delicate thing and I think that they failed in that aspect I. think that's pretty clear because so many cases I mean even dating back last year Andy according to. According to a really weird situation probably want him. He's nine weakening more but. When you feel all of these cases at some point. Go Choir every time at some point. It's the other way I. Know Th there. If you go back to Andy Dalton last year there seems to be an inordinate guys. Some of whom are you know fully? Vested veterans and some of whom are still trying to find their footing in this league who have either expressed be. About how they're being used confusion about how they're being used or upset with how something was handled. It's not just Carlos Dunlap that's not an isolated incident and so yeah, I mean the thing was they benched him around the trade deadline instead of giving him and his agent a chance to go find the situation elsewhere if you get to like well, here's what Carlos is owed. Here's what Geno Atkins is owed. You at the very least could've leveled enough with antidote to give him a chance to pursue not just for himself but maybe something that could have benefited the bengals long-term. What ended up happening they let Andy Dalton, get away find great. He was terrible on Monday night football last night. Okay. Anything in return for him a get in their own way and so yeah. I but the overriding point I agree with it is very fair question if the foundation of what Zach Taylor was GonNa do is GonNa be communication. It seems like he's not doing that well, and I agree about the seat getting hot he he's he's got three games over the next three weeks against Cleveland. Underdog Tennessee is going to roll them good luck tackling, derrick? Henry. Pittsburgh looks great. Right now, we are staring at the possibility of the by being in their rear view mirror, and this team is going to be staring at one seven one and and even though the back half of the schedule is filled with beatable teams, they have the rest of the NFC east. That isn't Philadelphia in front of him. Those teams are terrible Miami they'll. Have a chance to beat them that said, one seven and one after what happened last year players are already starting the pipe up in the middle of October. I can't imagine how bad things might get for this team and his coaching staff. If we're sitting here at one seven and one and the idea of playing meaningful games in December, is a pipedream soon after Halloween. I totally agree and I it to me it boils down to two one thing and in A. I'm not trying to end Jack Tenure here or anything like that but if he was. Next Sean mcvay one one no and that in. That's the reality usually like with job earl, what did it take you two quarters maybe three because the offensive line was awful in the first half, but we want to be like okay. Maybe it was just the final drive of the game right against the chargers jazz you're like, oh, he's legit. Well, now we're talking about three team in one. So how many more game visit he was giving a Mulligan last year? How how much more of a sample size? Do we need it before it's like Oh okay. Living does he have to win six six games? Is it five? They have to sweep the NFC eastwood the rest of the way and beat Miami I mean it's I I don't know I. Don't know what the bar is and I think that's interesting. Point is if You're bringing them back next year after you know, five wins in two seasons. That's That's a hell of a thing to do because the clock is already taken on job you cannot wait his rookie. Rookie, contract years, and so dan I wonder how Joe Borough is processing all of this I know I'm late here you know that as well as anybody but I, wonder how Joe, borough processing all of this we went into this whole thing this off season about well, why would want to come to Cincinnati and I said often you and I probably talked about this it's not a matter of if Joe Borough wants to come to Cincinnati, it is eventually. Going to be a matter of does he want to stay here? We assume this guy is going to be as good as we think he's GonNa be healthy. He's going to get to a point where he's offered a contract extension by his team and there's going to be an accumulation of things and accumulation of experiences that are either going to say to him that make him say to himself. Yes. I want to stay here or no I don't want. To stay here I wonder that said it I know that's off in the distance but I wonder how he's processing all of this. I wondered the mental notating I wonder what he's thinking about watching Zach Taylor communicate with veteran players watching players expressed some frustration publicly I'm sure privately as well about how they're being used watching some of these game plans unfold. The Baltimore thing made no sense. We're burrow says on Wednesday we're going to get blitzed and then. The Game Plan on Sunday they didn't even try to pick up the blitz that didn't make any sense to me. I wonder how that to me is maybe the most important question how all of this playing with the guy who is the most important employees that franchise and the thing with Berle is he's not going to be like, oh. Get Out of you know he's not the type to to do that I don't think by any stretch he probably. Knows in the NFL. So he probably believed in, but that's up to you know Katie Roy Mike. In that front office luke to to evaluate it and say, all right. We have to make a decision. Here is this rolling list. And if not, what are we doing in? How are we gonNA make us better and? I heard you talking to Paul Really I don't think there's any way you can. Bring in an outside play caller right? I just I don't I have to decide is exactly guy that's been a maximized borough. I don't move for twenty, twenty, two, twenty, twenty one but beyond and if the answer is no, then that's your answer. You can't date him for another year and hope it gets better. You're going to have to make a decision after the next ten games I'm okay with this entire season but you're gonNA have to make a decision after the twenty twenty season. The thing though is if you`re If you're expressing doubts about Zach tailored now is really going to ease all those doubts over the next ten games. I get it they they can win some games late in the season they should but are they really going to play to the level that you're like you know what the bengals are in great hands with his head coach and his coaching staff if you don't think that they are now, I don't think they're capable of doing enough over the next ten games to change your mind. That's fair and I think there's a lot that can happen. You know he couldn't. Nobody, maybe. Everything and try talk. For forty five snaps this weekend and we see like. You can't do it anymore or you know he's on that we ate. All right Carlos getting their installment to God and he doesn't have anyone you start to see right. You know the guys that we were expecting to have success just can't anymore even though those are just two of the many guys on that defensive line that same thing Aj right but but to me I keep coming to I could maximizing borough in two thousand back they hired him because he's an offensive coach. Because he was supposed to maximize an offense, we'll be made better. Me Joe mix better know. Boy Better. Know Been Great. The whole time I mid aged green better. Don Ross. No. So you know he's got ten games, the show that into me and I followed it I know all those and covered him I followed it last year. You haven't done that yet, and so we'll see if he does but Yeah I think it's it's an uphill climb at least in my mind but I'm not the one making the decision and so that that's the thing that. I wonder how the bengals office, the ones that are truly empower how they feel right now for your sake, I hope as I look at it outside of hope, John Ross gets traded somewhere warm and we'll talk to you from their thanks so much count. Thanks James on Twitter James Dean we are late five thirty. Sorry Tara you're shaking your head mad at me because I'm late now. Five thirty, ESPN. Fifteen. Thirty. Liberty delayed, farms, racers, town stakes, jobs, ribs chicken liver directly to your doorstep Liberty Delight Farms Dot Com scheduled your delivery today fresh meats raise right.

John Ross Bengals Zach Taylor Carlos Dunlap John Gino Atkins James Dean John It NFL John Ross Express Aj Green Don Ross Cleveland Delight Farms Dot Com NFC Paul Cincinnati BILLY PRICE twitter John Troubles
John Ross Bowie and Jamie Denbo Don't Need Your Suggestions For Their Life Improv

The Hilarious World of Depression

51:41 min | 2 years ago

John Ross Bowie and Jamie Denbo Don't Need Your Suggestions For Their Life Improv

"Is depression funny. I was ready for this. I wasn't. I should have been. You know, it's I it starts starts every. Depression is not particularly funny when you're going through it. But if you get just a little bit pass it, and you look back, and the idea that you're you get to that head space when you're really in the thick of it where you think you're the most worthless thing in the world and yet everybody's thinking about it. There is something inherently funny that you know, what it's it's not that funny. It's it's not fun. It wasn't funny. When you know, the depression version of women is ice cream and Bridget Jones and crying and spanks, and it's not funny now. Okay. Fuck I want to say again. No. I think it's point. But I do think it's funny. I just you know, what depression can be funny. Sincere. She's really come around noble. Honestly, I was impression can be funny. And you know, what I don't know that I make it funny. But I love listening to people talk about it. And when when they're brilliantly funny about it, whether it's patent Oswal or polyp Tompkins. I like hearing other really funny people talk about depression. But I don't think I can make it that funny. Rachel bloom handles depression with a great, Hugh, my mind, depression is funny. Much critics, go friend. That's super funny. Chris gathered you're the worst handled depression. Really, well, I didn't think was funny on your own. That's a good point. They were really rob at it. Fuck maybe it's not funny. See ducks. Wrong with. Can't shake. Kids take. It's the hilarious world of depression. I'm John L. I've been hosting this show for a while. Now long enough to notice things that come up in lots of different interviews like improv, for instance, improvisational theater or comedy as a device to figure out who you are. And what you're dealing with. In improv you need to be in the moment. Not worrying about a script or worrying about the future or the past. You have to connect with other people you have to listen and be generous with other human beings who are with you were listening, and who are being generous to you. Plus also, it's fun in short. It's kind of opposite of depression. I was talking about this via Email with a friend of mine who is an actor and has done a lot of improv and taught improv and has dealt with depression. And he reminded me that his wife has done all those things too. And that they met in an improv class. So we ask them to be on a show together, which was fun. Hi, jamie. Dan. Oh, hi. I'm John Ross Bowie. What did you want us to where we are right now? Hi, Jamie, Denver, and I am in Los Angeles. I'm John Ross Bowie. I'm in Los Angeles where I live with Jamie, Denver, who is my wife, and my baby, mama. Correct. John Ross Bowie was born and raised in New York City. He's an actor known for his leading role on the ABC sitcoms speechless and for a recurring role as Kripke on the CBS sitcom, the big bang theory is a pickle. Yes. So if you will just move your birthday party to a different location. Everything will be fine. I it's twinkie. I don't wanna move my potty. But I also don't wanna help you await. I don't have a problem. Jamie Denboba was from suburban Boston. She's appeared on shows like orange is the new black and the good place movies like the heat and spy and the Ghostbusters remake she's half of the comedy duo, Ronna. And Beverly here, she is on parks and recreation with Amy Poehler, it's nice to be here among all of these excellent journalists and also the people that work with me over at the Ponti, son. It was my opener. Now, I love working at the sun. Okay. I know you think it's just a useless tabloid. But it's not it is great for house breaking puppies. Chokes she stealing jokes. So people's renewing John have two kids live in L A. They've been married since two thousand four but they meant years before that in an improv class in New York. We were friends we met in Amy Poehler level to see UCB is upright citizens brigade. The influential improv theater in school, Amy Poehler reference. There is Amy Poehler Jamie and John met before Amy Poehler was a household name when that theater was really small. The improv style of UCB isn't like improv on the TV show whose line is. Anyway, with short scenes and games and quick laughs UCB favors long form, improv long scenes, half hour, minimal audience suggestion. There's a lot of depth lab deep character work people with depression gravitating, the improv make a lot of sense to Jamie, and John it's a group. It's a group. And I think a lot of people are looking for. For collaborative. I mean, I hate to be so simplistic, but I mean, if your family is at all broken, you're looking for a new family, and if you're, you know, dark humored and improv is sort of that perfect fit. You've put together in new families, and it's incredibly it can be incredibly soothing. I think there are people who are drawn to improv because they want community, and they want an art form that puts you very much in the moment. I also think there is a part in the depressive mind that can make these crazy almost illogical jumps from thing to thing. You know, like if I am. You know, if this is going wrong right now. What's to stop everything else from going wrong in a couple of days and won't it be even worse in a week's time and all that kind of that sort of reactive. Well, yeah. But it so that kind of compulsive thinking that leads you down these weird paths can actually serve improv specifically comedy in general. And so I think it's yes, there are people who come to improv for Solis. I think there's. People who come to improv because their minds all over the place anyway, and they can constantly like dredge up these weird specifics. And remember all this dumb stuff internally. It rewards weird thinking think is in the in the crazier. Crazier reference or the crazier mind lead by agree with you. But I also think on a very practical level. It's it's places where there's groups of people John enrolled at UCB in the late ninety s kind of in desparation to get out of the life. He was living which had nothing to do with improv or comedy or show business. I was a real mess. When I started improv the previous spring. I was going through my first capital D depressive episode. It was really gnarly. I'd always been anxious. I'd always had problems with anxiety attacks. I'd had all these dizzy spells. When I was a little kid that sent me to an ear nose throat guy semi to unreligious briefly. And they just concluded that it was stress, and I'd always had trouble dealing with that and somewhere around spring of ninety eight my my my band broken up, and I was in a relationship with. My high school sweetheart that was going south really fast. And it just felt like everything was clapping. I would start to get these very long-term panic attacks that would last for days days on end if feeling like I leaned too far back in my chair. Wow. And it was couldn't eat and I was losing weight. And it was really one of those things. And I also had this is important to note. No, creative outlet. I was working corporate job at the time at which I was I was doing fine at the job. But I was not thriving, and it wasn't really enjoying it. And I were you doing comedy or theater at that point nothing. No now, I was that. It wasn't a theater major. I wasn't. I wasn't. I harbored a deep dark secret wish to become an actor. But wasn't able to articulate it. I think it was one of those things where life was going so poorly that I might as well. Try improv. When all else fails. You know, there was a sense of. As you saw movie recently that took place in the scene in a meeting where a sponsor says to a new a new comer. So what's going so well in your life that you ended up here, and I thought oh, yeah. That's that's me improv pretty much again, not vouching for anybody else. People come to why they come to it. But I always at the end of my rope. I was in a really bad place. And I was I just started Zoloft. I wanna say I yeah. When I started taking classes, and it was it was just dire. But it got me through my eight improv classes without any major panic attacks. And that was that was nice. I it's it's very the whole thing was was we are. But really got to a point of of. And it was it was longtime coming if it hadn't been the band breaking up or the relationship going south that would have been something else. Jamie. Saw no struggling John. She just liked him. It's we didn't have. I mean, this is the late nineties. It's like the language of depression wasn't as prevalent to me. It looked like I don't know you were dry and funny and dark but confident in a way leading the the shell of like, maybe it was just defensiveness or anger, whatever. But it fueled a certain specific comedy knew that really stood out. I will say that by the time you met me, Jaime. I was I was coming out of the dark a little bit. Yeah. And I was you know, drugs, we're working, and I had broken up with that girl. Living with my mom, which was one of the reasons. I didn't immediately swing defenses when I was winning. That's your own back a little bit, right? Hung back a little bit. Wasn't it? My best. And I so yeah, it was a a transitional period, but on the definitely on a little bit of an incline at that point income compared to where I'd been about three or four months prior. So for John improv is sharp turn into a new world and a change happened in his mental health right around that same time for Jamie on the other hand, improv was an ongoing thing as was depression. I was like almost like a closeted depressive my whole life. It's like I knew that. There was something very wrong, but I had no language or tools. And so the only word that comes to mind overwhelmingly, I was very lonely lonely. Childhood was an only child in town where everybody had three siblings, and my parents were weird transplants. And there were rocky, and it was complicated. And. I continued that loneliness for a very long time I discovered college improv at Boston University. It was the only thing I liked, but it didn't I had my parents voice in my head that there was no career and performing or and in the thing in the arts. But I realized that improv was really all I wanted to do loneliness and urge to perform the college improv troupe natural fit was a club. And it was a team, and I didn't feel like I ever had access to clubs or teams because I wasn't athletes or interested in athletics. I always liked drama clubs in place. But they they end Nate. They do your performance in. It's over in you suffer a little bit of a loss every time that happens, and you know, that's a lot of what an artistic career ultimately ends up being when you're in the arts in Los Angeles. Like, we are. I mean, you do television shows or episodes are things or movies, and, you know, the family disbands again, but improv at the time was considered. Isn't. And I enjoyed it. And I loved it. I love the immediacy. And I also just I frankly loved and still love the art form. You know, it's great for lazy people because there's memorization like, I'm not gonna lie that was very appealing you're instantly off book, you learn techniques, but you don't have to it's not as maybe labour-intensive. There are a lot of places for an actor an improviser performer to perform Jamie found that not all of those places are in New York or LA, I took a left turn after college with a communications major and no real plan, except that I knew I had to get a job job somehow and addition for summer stock theaters in New England, I thought I was dishing for Shakespeare in the park. I was additional for a renaissance festival. It was the job that I got I went six hours north to Lake Ontario. I want up working in a renaissance festival, and what I learned among a zillion other things was that the renaissance festival is a circuit that exists. I learned improv interactive entertainment was a whole layer of job that I was equipped for that. I liked that was super weird hard to explain to my parents and was something I could do either on the renaissance festival circuit in small places or corporations like Disney got hired at Disney wound up doing the comedy warehouse for five improv shows tonight, clean clean in providence me one hundred seat house. If you have a terrible show, it doesn't matter because in twenty minutes, you're getting back up there again and doing more, you know, fake jeopardy for the audience. And I realized at the age of twenty four that I was twenty four and living in Orlando. And I love the people I was working with. But this was not the life that I wanted. And so I went to New York City. And I was like this is it this is where I wanna be. She knew one person in New York who told her go check out this place called UCB. And I went, and I saw them wind up taking classes, but. I was. Freefalling in terms of my mental health. Well, I was going to ask because I know you're a proponent of improv, of course, and a practitioner of it in those renaissance fair improvident in those Disney improv was it cathartic was at therapeutic in some way. Or was it just making things worse with your mental health? Well, what's interesting about those atmospheres is they were particularly in the renaissance festival community is they're very kind actually very kind community, very warm community, very accepting community. They take a lot of a lot of misfits in those communities in they give them big hugs. But if you're feeling like, you don't deserve it or you are unsure that it's the stability that you are. It's a stability or not aware short. If you're not confident you grow up in a very traditional household and then the renaissance fairs like we'll give you hugs and traits and smoke. We just like this doesn't feel right either. So I almost felt like my whole everything was out of balance. I knew I needed to get to New York. I loved the UCB I wanted to get involved, but I could feel a mounting pressure. I mean, it wasn't until I think after John, and I had been together for a few years that had a massive breakdown. Really what? Yeah. And I know it's a lot of information. We met up and we were friends for really long time. And I think we both I found comfort in the fact that I thought this guy is a sensitive soul. We'll get to that breakdown in a bit. So at this point, it's the late nineties, and these creative people with histories of depression, and at least some uncertainty of how to deal with it are at UC together. It's funny. I have a very specific memory of Jamie onstage in a scene at UC L member who shoes playing with but she was playing with somebody who was a little a little green. And what green guys do sometimes when they're on stage with the woman is just start getting really abusive. How no it's quote, unquote jokes. Just like I'm doing a parody of misogyny or whatever, and it gets pretty it can get pretty ugly happens more often than it should and Jamie turned towards the audience. I bet you don't remember this. I'm fascinated turn towards the audience and started punching her arm, and then punching the other arm, and like just gradually literally beating herself up, and I had just been told by my psychiatrist how John you really liked to beat yourself up. Here's this woman. Literally doing it on stage like full on Tyler Durden ING herself on stage. And I was watching it. And I was like that she'd get me. Honey, they're playing our song. It was kind of like that. You know, this would be a that doesn't sound like the the greatest way to start a really, but our kids are in school right now, everybody's doing. I took my loneliness with me, I took my loneliness out of Massachusetts to the renaissance festival to Orlando to New York and was still chasing it and chasing it and chasing it and not really coming to terms with it. Did you both find that doing improv in this positive space was that a turnaround for your mental health was this? When like old now things are getting back on track that I'm in a happy place doing things I love with people. I dig it definitely helped me because I mean, it was a dramatic turnaround for me I had gone from. I quit my my corporate job and within a year and started booking commercials. And it was a big big seismic like life shift. For me. And it wasn't just you know, all this external validation. There was something coming from within terms of this is something I can be good at this something where I can contribute. This is something where I'm part of a group of like minded people, and we are all connecting. We're all sort of, you know, the the rising tide is lifting all boats, and that was the thing we both, Jamie. And I this is late nineties both were among the first people start getting actual work. Yeah. That was that was encouraging. I mean firmly on very surface level for me. I mean, you book to say remember you booked to sex in the city and everybody was like how does that even happen? You're on television. How does that work? A while back. We had comedian Chris gathered on the show he had also studied at UC. In fact, he lists John Ross Bowie is one of his heroes. Chris mentioned the kinds of characters he started to play when he noticed his depression, really flaring up. I started as an improviser at U C B. And I started playing a lot of depressed characters started playing a lot of characters who were recently Medicated started playing a lot of characters who could only see the grim side of the world. And I remember almost having like in my head of tea like they don't realize how real this is. I thought about that bit from Chris Gothard when I was talking to John Ross Bowie and Jamie Denboba because improv never changed to these people were, but it did bring up the issues that they were dealing with for John improv was a new home and a better life. For Jamie performing was a way of fending off her actual problems, even when she got the part on sex and the city things like that would keep my me. From having to deal with what was creeping up, which was a massive massive fall down in about two thousand two. So you are so busy with this kind of I want I shudder to say manic. I'd feel like I was a little manic. And well, and this is what I wonder to kind of at the root of it is that so often hear from people, and I did this myself after some trauma like I'm going to be so busy that it'll never catch me. My mind will never catch up with the monster. We'll never track me down still the biggest relief in the world to have a busy day time on Tan's. It's like you. If you're a depressive, you have to really work to remind yourself that it is fine. If you do nothing because it is the first thing to kill you. This is so interesting though, because for for John was it seemed to be this now I can kind of relax into into who. I am. And then Jamie, you're saying that it it kept you so busy that kept you away from really dealing with things. I think because I had the benefit of an extra couple of years of performing for money, and realizing that it was something that could be done, whereas John has sort of just got that revelation. So he was coasting on that a little bit. Whereas I had you know, made money. Improvising which was bizarre because I mean, again, it wasn't famous. Improvising. It wasn't on. TV? It was interactive your worth actor, correct? There's like twenty five pain improv jobs in the United hockey for take. I think there's more than than you think. There's always more than you think. And I think it's a very interesting career path that I think people need to remember that if you're doing it because you love it and not for chasing Famer really giant pay days, there are places to do that art form and actually make a living, and they're very satisfying, the Cambier satisfying. So I think I had a taste of the career part? So for me, I was sort of again, just barreling forward. I mean, I I did a woman show it you see it might have been the first one person show that that they ever did at the theater. I mean, I don't wanna might have been one of them an end I took it to Aspen in two thousand and one and I just had such like career ambition. Aga that I couldn't it wasn't until we slow down. John. And I. Finally hooked up. And that was great because it was like an we're done. Great, right. Those the romance. But I also want to skip ahead to the pressing does certainly there. But there was a real sense of like, this is somebody I'm going to spend the rest of my life with really as well to get married. Just because we don't trust anything. But it was. Other people. Can you of course? Yeah. Given so in our story, Jamie and John connect, they pledge undying, devotion and all their problems are solved. Well, almost none of their problems are solved because there's a collapse coming up after the break. The collapses usually come after the break on the show. The hilarious world of depression. It supported by health partners and by make it okay dot org. Make it okay. As a campaign to start conversations. And stop the stigma surrounding mental illnesses. Not just depression, all kinds of mental illnesses. We enjoy having a lot of laughs on this show. It's a good way to deal with depression away of maybe demystifying depression, a little bit making not so scary. But let's not kid ourselves depression is a serious illness. The good news is that people can and do recover the get help. And that's why we need to make it okay to talk openly conversation like that. Yeah. It can get a little awkward, but making okay dot org. Full of information. You can use like what to say what not to say what never to say and stories from people tell you what it's like to live with depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses. Go to make it. Okay dot org where you can take the pledge to make it. Okay. Thank you so much to health partners and to make it okay for joining us in fighting stigma. So we can all get. Better. Thanks to all of our sponsors. Just remember us those promo codes when we talk about our sponsors, you'll hear visit use promo code hilarious, use promo code world that kind of thing, and when you use those you get bargains galore and also those sponsors know that our listeners are really loyal and that they're out there. And then those sponsors you see wanna keep sponsoring the show which helps the show and everybody wins. It's like I wanna take vitamins, but then I got to figure out which ones take and sort them all out and remember to take them, and I just end up not doing it. But dig this care of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin and supplement packs right to your door. It all starts with this fun online quiz ask you about your diet health goals lifestyle. Choices takes about five minutes to find out what vitamins and supplements use specifically need then it gets delivered straight to your door in these personalized easy to remember daily packs. It's perfect for a busy lifestyle. You just have the pack right there. That's what you do. Boom. Take them out the door. You're fine. Vegan vegetarian supplement options are available to match your dietary needs. I tried this myself, and I couldn't believe how can be was all those gripes. I had about sorting these things out instantly solved. So for twenty five percent off your first month of personalized care of vitam. Visit take care of dot com and enter promo code hilarious. Back with Jamie, Dan, Bowen, John Ross Bowie married couple in real life and also married. Couple on curb your enthusiasm with Larry David where their characters adopted a baby from China. Larry. Just talking about you. Are you still going to make it to the Xiang for sytle that are you kidding of coming huge fan of hers? Mike have you have you? Have you have you mentioned that Kelsey before Tulsa, this is Kelly? Six months ago. Larry kelsey. Jussie grammar. I'll just. Let me ask you this question of you noticed if she has any proclivity for chopsticks. Why shape? I have a proclivity for Trump six Chinese. Do you think she is also a master? We're talking about depression naturally because it's this program and also improv so many comedian and actor guests we've had on this program talked about improv as being a clarifying experience helpful in figuring out who they are some creative people also see it as a hideout away of running away from who you are and running away from issues like depression, a kind of really related to John and Jamie in terms of performance improv is sort of somewhere between reality and theater in the in the more classical sense. And I feel like in my situation. I was an actor for a long time did very little improv did a lot of scripted plays. And it really wasn't until I walked away from doing that as often as I could as much as could that. I started to kind of figure out. My mental health because it was plays were great way. Yes. To just like, oh, I know what I'm gonna say in this moment while interacting with this other person, I have somewhere to go that takes up hours and hours and hours every single day. And then at the end of this thing that I do strangers give me the approval I could never generate for myself. This is a perfect scenario. Right. And it wasn't I kinda stopped doing doing those sorts of things. I like, okay. I got a figure out who I really am here. I wonder if you've you experienced that in doing scripted work, or if if that is lessened somewhat by having to be more present in a situation like improv. I think that's a really interesting point. I feel like the work. It's easier to do scripted work. When you're having a rough time, mentally, I was working through a rather nasty episode just about a month and a half ago and was working on on speechless and was able to get it done because I had script in hand and knew what was expected of me I've been doing playing the character for two and a half years now, and I've gotten a certain amount of a group going, and I would do the scene. Go back to my trailer. I would go fetal, and then they would call me, and I would come back and do some more. And it was I was able to compartmentalize. Because again, I knew exactly was expected me could I have been doing long form improv shows that time probably not. I mean, I keep referring to the episode. I think it's just worth talking about as long as we're here you've picked on cast. That's. On the daily from the New York Times. I keep calling in. So in two thousand and two John, and I moved to LA, and I think something that happened was sort of just that, you know, I left the regularity of performing at the theater because there was no UCB theater in two thousand and two in Los Angeles. Did not have a job did not know what to do. And actually, I was you know, I think a lot of people. I don't know how often you hear the expression your Saturn returning. But it ages twenty nine to thirty one or something like that Saturn is in the same position. It was when you were born in theoretically, this has to do with some sort of reevaluation of your life. So twenty nine I think I don't have an improv theater out here. Well, I'm going to be a stand up. So I started doing standup. I was fine. Mostly terrible, occasionally, okay? And was shoes honestly better than she's letting count. That's very sweet high. He has to say that. No, I don't sit here quietly. Oh, I do really do. I I was sort of left without my love. You know? I didn't have my improv. But I thought okay, I'll substitute this. So I got a decent ten minutes together. I wound up in the year, we moved out from Los Angeles. Doing an incredible ten minutes set on the night that the Montreal comedy festival. Just for laughs. People new faces were additioning people for their new faces. Now at the time. Montreal new faces was the biggest deal in the world. That's how you got a sitcom job. That's gotta sit whatever I got into the festival, and I went, and I first of all I was up there with such seasoned professionals, Al magical, Tammy Pesca tell like a lot of Torah was on that. Comics people who this was their life, and I have more spec for stand up comedians than anyone else in the performance industry because they are the hardest working human beings on the planet. If you are a stand up that means you performed six nights a week minimum, and you will perform for two people in a laundromat or you will perform for thousand people at the Staples. It doesn't matter. You will make yourself a working comics and people at. Staple center. That's that's lousy. That's just the custodian show. It's like, you know, the big clippers hawks. Okay. Wherever they sports stuff. So anyway, and I I get up and Kevin Pollock is hosting the night. And I get up to do my ten minutes. And I think by the way, this is gonna this is it then I'll have a career. Okay. I won't have to worry about the move. Or the fact that there's no UCLA I'm gonna I'm gonna be set obese stand up comic wheels. Hardly knew anybody away. Yeah. I mean, I was really this was also could be could conceived of as a could be interpreted as manic, but I got up. I do my my tennis one of my bits was me comparing my life to Nikki six for motley crews and crew, and I had his biography, and I would read like, oh, you know, Nikolic word the same person, you know, like he passed out from like, you know, fucking girl interest while doing heroin back, and I had about mitzvah like that was the right? So, but I I saw that bit repeatedly in New York. Thank you very much. It. Uh-huh. So badly, and that I all I can remember is being on stage and feeling my my chin getting like closer to my neck, and the sweat, and I could see a single line. People could smoke in the clubs. I could see a single line of smoke coming up from a table between me in the spotlight, and it was just dead dead. I got off the stage, and I burst out crying. And Kevin Pollock came over to me. And he was like, hey, hey, fuck them. Fuck that audience, but lose the book and. I was like, well, I don't have an hour of material to lose the book from like, I don't I can't put something else. So I did my you know, we had to go up again. And do another set. I don't remember that at all. I know that it was fine. It was basically six minutes, and I left the festival early. And that's when I came home and completely fell apart in that incident when comedy no longer provider, joy comfort, protection that was the breaking point. And I went home to my parents John was living on in L A we were living together. But I went home. And I was like I am falling apart my soul's. Not right. I wasn't eating wasn't sleeping. I came home. My parents took me to McLane which is the Girl Interrupted mental hospital. And I remember being in the waiting room with my mom, and she was completely incapable of communicating the owner. Thing that was positive about all of this was I think my parents finally understood that there was something clinically wrong because up until that point in my life. It was like, oh, Jamie, whether drum attics, so I think there was a little connection there and kindness. I spent one night in McLean. They gave me a clot opin. And all I can remember is I took the Konta pen, and it felt like I closed my eyes, and they opened again, and it was morning. And it was I I was so deprived of sleep at that point. And I went home for another couple of weeks. I had a painting phase because that's still in my twenties or just barely and then finally sort of pick myself back up, but I don't know. I don't know stopping in with triggered all of that. But certainly slowing down the treatment coming out of that. I mean, did you did you get a more aggressive approach to this thing that had been lingering? Yes. Yes. I did. I finally found the right therapist. I have been blessed and the right medication. And I have been blessed to be with this therapist for the past whatever it is sixteen seventeen years, and which well, here's what I think is important. And I I would love to say this because I think it's such a great thing to for people to understand something. I learned that. I I love really helped me was I remember being in my therapy at this time shortly after twice a week crying on her couch saying is this it like this is it now I come here twice a week for the rest of my life. And I'm going to be. Just a puddle and a mess and incapable of living my life without a fucking coach or whatever it is that your role is here, and she looked and she said, no, she said, hopefully sooner but in a year or two you'll go for months without talking Amir seamy, and then maybe a couple other years ago by and you'll call me for a tune-up, and maybe come in or maybe we'll talk on the phone, and then maybe it'll be going through something if you need to see me more often you will. And it was the first time. I realized that therapy wasn't Woody Allen traded as a lifetime commitment of once a week on a couch. And I always felt that there the therapists of the analysts in my life. I was never sure that they weren't trying to rip me off which sounds awful. But there was a part of me. That's like I think trying to keep me here. So that I can just be here. She really released me from that. And the truth is to this day. I will see her maybe once a year find to sometimes more. You probably thought that because you weren't ready to trust very many people at that point. That's right. No, well, John. What was that like for you? When you were when Jamie was going through that suddenly feel like a marriage therapist, just by phrasing. It like this. It's done the to what was it like for you as somebody who already had major depressive episodes, or or breakdown, or whatever you choose to characterize it like did you get it? Did you try to help? What was it? I wouldn't characterize it as a cakewalk, but I do think there was. It was one of those rare occasions where the, you know, twenty six months or so that separate us helped think because I had been when I had been genes as much older than me, I'm twenty six months older than she is. But it looks way older the ethic there was something that that at least made me realize. Okay. I have been there. I have gotten through this. I know there is a way out now it's very very hard from the outside to help someone. But I you know, I was just trying to make sure she was sleeping trying to make sure she was eating. It was not. It was not easy on him. It was not easy on me. We were lucky in a way that we didn't know that many people out in Los Angeles. Because I mean, you had didn't have too many places to run, but I wouldn't have also. But I it was it was really hard watching someone I deeply deeply cared about go through this. But there was also something. Can't say soothing. But there was something reassuring somewhat that like, okay, I have also been here. I know what this feels like I know what it feels like where you know, where you feel like everyone hates you in the people who don't hate. You are idiots for not hating you. And I know what it feels like to. Feel like you don't deserve food. And I know what it feels like to find no joy in anything. Even your go-to things. You know, like, this particular sawn groundhog day, the movie while these things that you can usually go to that will put you in a good mood, and when they're not working anymore, and how you surfing that is I I had been there before and I had been with someone who didn't understand what that's like so Jamie, and I have since nothing quite as bad as what Jamie went through. But but we have since been through some times individually never the same time. Qu'une but the flu at the same time. That was rough sitter. That was a mess. Oh, it was right before pilot season though, and I needed to lose some pounds. So that'd be. Sorry. Such a diva the, but I honestly what it did. It was that moment of like, okay. This is the woman who beat yourself up on stage. We had to know this was going to be an option we are here for this together. She understands I understand, and it it was sort of a maker break moment for the rations. Can't believe you know, when I look back. We've talked about this until he really you've really held on. That's incredible. I married the right guy worth. John genie's time after her breakdown could have been drawn up by therapist Jamie struggles John's ready to support her with the wisdom of zone experiences. And while they concentrate on getting Jamie better. They both try to keep busy and a healthy mindful way and best of all in the very shaky world of show business. John starts to succeed and bring in money. I got to LA and started working pretty quickly. I lucked out and I got right place. Right time for something. And one of the things was that. I was. Yeah. Because it kept me. Yes. Busy. It kept me flush for whatever we needed to do in terms of therapy and stuff like that home flights home. And it was it. It was it made the transition to LA easier for me because I was forced into you know, like I was into sewing making deep friends though, he made a couple, but it was immediately. Like, I had a place to go. I had places to things to do and money coming in and I paid off my student loan, and I learned to drive that year. And there was a bunch of things at thirty because I grew up in New York. So there was a bunch of things I had going for me that gave me the reserve tanks. I think to deal with what Jamie was going through into help her I often marvel how people predisposed to depression last even a week in Hollywood. I mean auditioning is built on making yourself available in vulnerable to people who almost always reject. You. Jamie says she survived through traditional therapies and also by carving out her own thing for me, I can say again, I had an incredible therapist the right medication. And I you know, I I was after a couple years the theater grew in Los Angeles. And we suddenly had another place to land. A little bit. I found an act that meant a tremendous amount to me called Raanan Beverly which started to fulfil me in artistic ways that maybe weren't necessarily well paying or immediate. It was back in front of an audience. So I was still getting that, you know, lever pulling of validation Jamie co created and co stars in Ronna and Beverly with actress Jessica Chephren, they do regular stage shows in LA, they have a podcast Ronna. And Beverly the characters are fifty somethings from Boston who give advice that no one particularly asked for this is from their podcast. But what happened was I drank an entire bottle of grapefruit flavored dishwashing soap hand wash. So so it's very key have to be very careful with food flavored so Frank you take that to here looking at now that is Genesis evac. Daddy. You can do that right in a toilet. I actually came up with the idea of toilet. I'm telling you, Beverly don't you? Remember, John has some coping strategies of his own including science. This might seem a little pretentious everything. I say sounds pretentious. But you said it the just having my close cigarettes. The what I do research go into what is actually happening happening in my brain when it's acting up. And when I was having a rough time a couple of months ago month and a half ago to another streaming about cortisol, and which is the fear hormone that leaks out of your visit your dollar, I think brain, but it no it really when you treat it like the chemical imbalance. It is. And you address it as I find that incredibly soothing because otherwise it's just the demons coming to get you. Yeah. If you can scientific by it a little bit. You heard me scientific. A little bit good word bay. Thanks, very veteran. John. Thanks kids. The it gives you a real kind of restores a sense of of rationality at a time when you're feeling so irrational, well, it turns it into a chemical problem and not the universe is out to kill me precisely thing. And and that's like the biggest thing is trying to get past that hump of the universe is trying to kill you. And the people who love you were idiots, and you're taking up space, and no one will genuinely miss you were you to disappear, and if you can get to a point where you're really looking at what serotonin does and why some brains burn it off quickly and other don't I find that really soothing. So in the end here, you have John who turned improv after what he calls. A major depressive episode found a new career found love found his true self. He used improv and science as tools to figure them self out as part of an ongoing positive direction. And then you. Have Jamie who drove herself hard through performance? And then the wheels came off in what she calls a nervous breakdown. Then she rediscovered improv and used it to find a path that fulfilled and grounded her, and they're happily married have two kids, and they're cute together. Yeah. But we can't all go out and sign up for our own sitcom on ABC or multiple movies with Melissa McCarthy. So what should normal people keep in mind? If they sign up for an improv class, improv makes you better listener, it is a technique that teaches you to observe to wait to be patient to take your moment. I think it's a life skill. It was it's been incredibly helpful to me in every aspect of my life. Just because it's a life skill teaches you to listen should better parent makes you better parent illicit, you're listening, you're observing you're you're just becoming more aware of the stuff around you just on the fly virtue being in the moment. And I think if people enjoy the experience of improv you've gotten something out of it because you've learned that spontaneity and being in the moment and listening are truly skills that you can use we both used to teach level one. It you see of loved loved teaching one because you get those people you get people who are not there to be big stars. They don't see it as a stepping-stone. They see it as like, I wouldn't want to loosen up a little. Yeah. You get what you get. Is. You get teachers on summer break. You get law students Biochemists you get divorced. Freshly divorced woman who want to shake things up little Daria. You get. No, it's great. I don't see a lot of freshly divorced guys. You see a lot of freshly you. Don't nice work there. All the the wow. Wow. That is the darkest thing said in your life. But you get these it's great because they're in there with the people who do have their eyes on the prize. They're in there with people who were you know, who are taking improv class at the behest of their agent. And they all kind of feed each other because you've got people with real world experience and people who are fresh out of an MFA program or whatever, and they're all kind of bumping up against each other and learning from each other. And I'm always kind of drawn to the people who, you know, conned their law firm into pain to this class, or, you know, people who are, you know, maybe have some sort of weird severance package that they're going to spend on improv rather than the people who are just like I am going to be on SNL. Get a real X men squad different skills. People who have different skills have the most to offer because they're going to do the most authentic and real an interesting scene about being in a lab being at the bar. You know, I mean the bar meaning the bar test not the bar bar bar, plenty of comedian actors know, very well how to drink. But it's I just think it's a life skill. And I think it's kinda good for. I mean, not to do a big adver improv. But I think it's a wonderful thing for people to. To dip their toes in. The hilarious world of depression is produced by American public media. Our producer is Chrissy peas, Christina. Lopez is our web and social media pay center. Kate Mussa's executive producer recording engineer for this episode was Steve Griffith technical director, Corey Schrapel. Our theme song was written and performed by retina Miller read has new album out. It's called the messenger just came out. Go listen to that. If you need help confidential help is available at the national suicide prevention lifeline, one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five it's free. It's twenty four hours a day seven days a week one eight hundred two seven three eighty two fifty five the larrys world of depression supported by health partners, and by make it okay dot org. Make it okay. Is a campaign to start conversations and stop the stigma around mental illnesses. Make it. Okay dot org has information that can help you and your loved ones starting a conversation on that topic. Can be awkward make it. Okay. Has tips on what to say, and what not to say stories of hope from people who've been there. You can take the pledge to make it. Okay at make it. Okay dot org. Hilarious. World dot org is our web home full archive of shows there you can send us mail via electric mail also known as Email wad T H W O D at American public media dot org. We're also on Twitter. Just search for us. You'll find us and come visit us on Facebook. A lot of great conversation there with your fellow Soid balls new shows being formed. It's good place to hang out on our next episode. She's depressed and she stars on the top animated show about animals who act mostly like people. Enter also depressed apart on Shirley's with us. I'm John Mel by now. This just. K. Say. Say something I don't.

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Cincy Jungle's Week 12 Giants at Bengals postgame show

Cincy Jungle

35:59 min | 8 months ago

Cincy Jungle's Week 12 Giants at Bengals postgame show

"Support for this. Podcast comes from jc. Penney so you made your list checked it twice and are looking for deals that are oh so nice you can count on jc penney to find everything you need to make your holiday memorable at all the best prices and the deals keep getting better with jc penney's cyber days when the insider scoop on our best offers stay tuned for a little inspiration. Plus learn how you can take an additional thirty five percents off your order. Joy comfort peace. Jc penney what's bengals. Man's anthony was since jungle dot com and the orange and black insider. Bengals podcasts happy. To have you with us. It feels for me personally like an eternity since i have taken the air have spoken about the bengals in all of that the last time i took the air. Unfortunately we were talking about the joe burrow injury and That obviously is continuing into this week. We've got more to talk about this week's and different stuff to talk about. Wanna give a little tip of the captain matt mimic and john sharon for Carrying the weight this week at it. Kinda take care of some things on the personal side of things and they the pre game show by narragansett beer in the mid week. Show that a handled in my absence. Appreciate those guys appreciate all of you for tuning in. Not only today but through those other shows that i mentioned as well again anthony. Costanza was cincy jungle dot com and the orange black inside our happened. Happy to be with you all despite the bengals falling to the new york giants nineteen to seventeen at paul brown stadium. There are a couple of different ways. You can look at this game. I think everybody could agree based on what was happening for both teams quarterback. It was an ugly game in the fact that neither team cracks twenty points pretty ugly game pretty ugly game to watch not a lot of offense not a lot of points and excuse me not not too much. Excitement in terms of firepower explosive. Plays that sort of thing. Aerob- grinder of a game. I think in some hands in in some points of view a lot of bengals fans sit here and look at this game and say hey. This was actually a little bit better than i thought it was going to be without joe burrow in the lineup. You know two point loss. The giants aren't a good team. But two point loss without your star without your star running back you know injuries all over the field turmoil. Supposedly in the locker room per reports. I thought that the wheels we're going to be falling off this thing and this may have been a real ugly want especially with brandon allen under center so you may actually feel good about the fact that hey maybe these guys didn't pack it in. Maybe these guys are backing zac taylor. At least the guys that are still they are playing on the field and getting playing time Maybe there's some disgruntled guys on the sideline that aren't getting the plane time. They think they deserve. But you know if you heard. The telecast today on fox chris spielman ago played linebacker at a very high level in the nfl for a ton of years kind of made. Note that this doesn't look like a team that is packing it up so to speak into. You know not. Packing it. Up for zac taylor and not calling it quits on the season with their franchise quarterback injured. And i guess you gotta kind of like some of that on the other hand familiar. Mistakes silly turnovers penalties at bad moments not enough points and yet another one possession loss for zac taylor company. It's pretty inexplicable at this point. As to how this team cannot pull out these one score wins pretty inexplicable and the way that they continue to lose these games. You know it. All of a sudden was nineteen to ten. It looked like the giants had the game wrapped up with a couple of minutes left. They got a first down well sudden holding penalty. It's getting called back. Bangles hold strong get a great punt. Return punt return for once from alex erickson. He made a number of bonehead plays as a punt returner but he gave the team a great punt return to set them up for a game. Winning field goal a game winning touchdown. And i play from scrimmage sack fumble game over so look there are a lot of. There are a lot of believe it or not. There are some positives to take away from today and and many of which an individual performances and we'll get to that just a second but and the fact that we kinda thought this was going to be a disaster in terms of a score the bengals may have had the potential to get blown out of their own building. That didn't happen and they fought pretty hard throughout the entire game especially with a depleted roster. But you still see what. Joe burrow managed to cover up in terms of roster deficiencies. When he was playing. You saw what his abilities were able to hide and make the team. Look a little bit better. Maybe it wasn't a sad thing to folks if you look at last week and you look at today. Granted you with joe burrow. This was a playoff team may have definitely would have been competitive and maybe start rolling off some wins at the end of the season here but i mean this last week definitely. You feel like you would have won. That game of joe burrow was healthy. This week for sure you you thought you would one that one. If you have a healthy joe burrow just two very winnable games all of a sudden you'd be looking at you know a four six in one record instead of a two eight and one record. And if you're feeling quite a bit different about your football team at that point so you know it's just unfortunate the The ripple effect that injury has had on this entire roster and and you see everything that joe burrow masked in in the you know when he was under center if you look there are a couple of things. One outstanding facet of of the game today was special teams randy bullock played pretty well You had the outstanding and record setting the longest play in bengals history. Brand wilson hundred three yard kickoff return touchdown congratulations to him. That was a very exciting play yet. Another great return late in the game. I mentioned alex erickson had some issues early. On letting balls you know. Go and get bad field position. But at the end there he made a big big punt return. Play to put the team in position to win so special. Teams was outstanding today in really. That's that's what i liked about today. Because you knew that the cincinnati bengals would need to have some of these special special teams plays. You need to have a defensive turnover. A pick six or something to help cope with the loss of joe burrow if you were going to try and win this game and they got. They did that. They got the special teams touchdown. They had a number of different returns. a lot of a lot of big plays on special teams. And you have to like that the linebackers and will pull up the tail of the tape here. Just a second but inappropriate weekend. Use the of the tape term. Right with the with the big fights last night Anyway if you look at what will look at the tale of the tape but the linebackers today were incredibly active for the cincinnati bengals. Incredibly active josh finds as probably the best game. I've seen josh. Vines play and bengals uniform. Logan wilson had a couple of nice place. Today at davis gather laid out in almost had a nice interception germain. Pratt was very active. Today and making a lot of nice tackles Day from the bengals linebackers today and by the way. If you're watching us live. I apologize for the the sun here. It's a it's shifting quite rapidly. I'm any different time zone than any of you. It's middle of the day for me here folks so i got the shot the sun shining on me here. I'm trying to avoid it. I apologize if i look a little shadowy but look at me. Great great game by the defense really. I mean nineteen points when you give up. Nineteen points with that side of the ball being pretty depleted. You're missing some important players there. And you don't have your your quarterback so you know that the offense isn't going to be scoring points you give nineteen points. That's not a bad day at the office. It's not a bad day at the office. Unfortunately a lack of pass rush and a lack of getting turnovers is continues to play. This team continues to play this team. They did have the one fumble recovery. Just the second of the entire season fumble recovery by von bell so that you know there are some there are definitely some issues but you have to say that special teams defense gave this team a chance to win a golden opportunity to win today and they did not. They did not capitalized. It not capitalize because of deficiencies on offense Rough day at the office for jona williams. He had a couple of of let-up sacks at the end there. he drew sample on. Jamal sheared initially. He got by sample sheared. Got by sample. And then he got by williams to force that final sack fumble. At the end there there was also a sack earlier. In the game jones lead up in a rough rough day at the office for him and you know up and down across the line in terms of overall performance. You know it just just kind of up and down day and that's kind of unfortunately what we've become accustomed to acquaintance. Spain was at left guard was playing pretty well and then had to move over to right guard out of holding penalty later in the game. He took over for alex redmond. Alex redmond left the game with a concussion and You know the rest is kind of history there. We'll get to the the numbers in just a second the stats and we can go over some of that. I wanna i wanna let people know in case they missed. Zack taylor's press conference. That immediately followed the one thousand nine hundred seventeen loss by the bengals at the hands of the new york football giants. He said when asked about brand allen to a big Tidbits here he that he did quote enough in terms of in terms of playing and his abilities on what he did what he showed. On sunday he quote enough. And jeff hobson and bengals dot com followed up with a question. Saying essentially is going to start next week. And zac taylor said yes. So we're going to expect to see more of brandon allen and this team is obviously especially now with joe burrow out of the lineup. The team being two eight one. They're going to be in roster evaluation. Vote at this point. They're going to see if brandon allen has what it takes in does enough to prove to them that he is the backup quarterback of the future not ryan finley. You can make argument. That today was a lot. More palatable to watch in terms of quarterback play by brandon allen instead of ryan failing. What we saw from this half from ryan finley last week against washington was atrocious but washington. Better pass defense and a really bad situation that just got thrown in. I mean both you got your emotions. Got to be all over the place and Just not a good situation for him. So it's all on number five there. But he looked pretty poor in his half of play. Last week they went with brandon today made it was better against there are still some force. Throws i will say this about brandon allen. He threw the touchdown late. Nice nice read. And play their to tee higgins. There were a couple of plays brandon. Allen had a couple of nice throws. That really could have made a difference in the team. Possibly coming out with a win here. Second half the first two drives the bengals. Have the ball you know. There's geo bernard out in the flat drops a third and one that would have been easy. Easy i down a catch. The geo bernard team captain makes his sleep inexplicably drops it A little bit later in the second half brandon allen seeing a pressure upfront. Throws a really nice ball to tyler boyd boyd. Let's get in on him and gets hit immediately in the ball of gets jarred loose. It's it's it's a play. You kinda think tyler boyd out tough catch but you've seen a make way more difficult catches you kind of think. Maybe that was one that you'd like to have back there. And that killed the drive. You know as. I mentioned a couple of penalties later in the game. Two that killed killed momentum and that was kind of the story of things a lot of a lot of similar situations at if you got some questions or something try and take some of these in these live chats whether you're joining us since he jungles facebook page whether joining us on the orange and black insider youtube channel. Or you happen to now be joining us on twitter where we're streaming there too. So if you've got a couple of questions may be all try and answer a couple of those as we go through some of the stats here. But i see here Yeah this was you know. David fuster says aged rain nothing again. Looked like he was sleep. Walking yeah i. I don't know i mean i. It's really difficult to explain. What's going on with aj green. I think there's a little bit of a tentative nature with potentially not wanting to accumulate another injury. They're you know some other facets there play. Obviously you know. Joe burrow being out in you know they're not being it. Aj green not being able to practice a lot with joe burrow. When he was available you know in the summer because of the covid stuff because a preseason. Because you know. Aj had an injury just not a lot of cohesion being built between those two. And now you're seeing a very lackluster year for major green and in our pre game show by narragansett beer. Not this week but the week prior against the steelers nazari against washington we noted that egypt greens career may be headed a little bit towards the way. That larry fitzgerald's is larry fitzgerald kinda had to become a different wide receiver instead of being that goto alpha dog guy You know he's kind of playing second fiddle there zone and still putting up a pretty consistent and nice career for himself. It's just that's kind of where his career is taken. These move more inside is a slot guy and we may. We may see that for me. Jay green whether that's with the cincinnati bengals next year or not i don't know but You know and i don't know what teams would be willing to pay him next year based on some of the stats and things we've seen on tape. You can toss men here. Why no john ross again. That's a mystery to us all year again. And i hope i'm saying your name right there. It's a mystery to us all. And i think now with joe burrow being out i mentioned this earlier. You kinda feel like this would have been roster evaluation mode time again for the for the bengals. Why not john. Ross out there and see what you got returns kick returns these jet sweeps. They keep running to tyler. Boy alex erickson that seems to be right up the alley of john. Ross either. he's just his head is not into football. He is not practicing. Well we're not. They're not throwing him under the bus publicly about that He's in the coaches doghouse. I will say this john. Ross was marvin. Lewis doghouse now appears to be in. Zac taylor doghouse. So i i don't. I always try and defend the player but when when two different coaching regimes still can't find a way to use this guy. Still don't sue them up when he's healthy You know i don't i don't i. I do think by the way. I do think john ross is does have a foot injury that he sustained a couple of weeks ago when they tried to do that. Corner wide receiver thing experiment that they tried to do so. he's probably still dealing with that but You know. I just feel like as the year goes on. If he does prove to be healthy you gotta get him out there at least see if you can get something with especially if you're gonna keep this coaching staff. We're going to keep this system. You're going to need to see john. Ross spits in it And you're going to need to see if he's he somebody that you're gonna keep around because look this. Nobody's really talking about this. I've said it a couple times though. The wide receiver group for the bengals next year is going to potentially be depleted. In terms of free agency. attrition. You've got john. Ross impending free agent you've got. Aj free agent. You've got alex. Erickson impending free agent. You got mike. Thomas impending free agent. you've got auden tate. A free agent after twenty one. And then you've got tyler boyd. For a couple of years there. So then got to higgins as well for a couple of years but mean there's is there that are set in and even i hate to say it's about aj green but all. Those names are replaceable. But you're going to with with other needs that you have on this roster wide receiver. All of a sudden becomes a pretty big priority. So you need to figure out. If you're gonna keep aj grain or john ross or both and they gotta get playing time they gotta get looks from quarterbacks gotta they gotta do that Let's let's keep going here what we'll do the tale of the tape in australia. Some stats in case. You have not seen some of these. We like to run through these. Ensure you that i'm anthony with cincy juggle dot com with some awesome weird lighting today. If you're joining your joining us via video whether it's on cincy jungles facebook or youtube. It's the sons. Doing some weird stuff in my house. Here i apologize. I'm looking very shadowy and mysterious but Anyway where it will be here a couple more minutes. He can get all of our stuff on. Itunes stitcher spotify. Google play megaphone iheartradio. Wherever you get your podcast dreaming where basically. They're the cincy. Jungle channel myself and john sharon do the orange and black insider matt mimic in his talk episodes. And you can also get a bogey and zim who the orange is. The new. Black podcast is well. All of that is available for your listening pleasure. Basically between office you. You have stuff every day of the week new stuff every day of the week whether it's video whether it's audio both you got stuff the week so check it out. We want the best of both worlds. We want a hybrid a smarter hybrid cloud approach. Ibm helps retailers. Manage supply chains with watson. Ai while predicting demands with ease the world is going hybrid with ibm visit. Ibm dot com slash hybrid cloud support for this podcast comes from cdw. Enciso modern modernisation. Today has the products you need to modernize your workplace like wi fi booster crystals what their metaphysical powers enhanced. Connectivity and spiritually awakened your internet of things at cdw. We get crystals. Won't modernize your network. You need cisco catalyst access points that are why by six compatible can help you improve. Reliability increased capacity and reduce latency cisco and it orchestration by cdw. People who get find out more cdw dot com slash cisco. Hey everybody it's lane welzer off. And i'm hosting a new podcast called built to last by american express where we will dive deep into the stories history and continued legacy of small businesses that shape american culture are debut season will focus on the lack owned small businesses. That need our support now. More than ever and each episode we feature the story of a black business trailblazer that has inspired a modern black. owned business. first step is kinky cole of atlanta's food truck turned restaurant celebrity vegan. We'll also chat with nathan mba the cutting edge designer behind the haniffah three d digital fashion show. Plus we'll check in with each array are modern day renaissance woman. We hope that it encourages all of our listeners to support these businesses as well as the black owned businesses in your own communities tune in for these amazing stories and others on spotify apple youtube. or wherever. You get your favorite podcasts. Let's go to the tale of the tape shall we. We're gonna pull up. This is the score rundown on. Nfl dot com. Your these are the giants side of the stats. If you look here on the right side of the screen that i am sharing daniel jones sixteen of twenty seven to thirteen left the game in the second half with a hamstring injury. And i think. I hate to say this. But you know the giants. I don't know how severe it was. He had his helmet and pads. Still on the sideline you can go the locker room. And he didn't get out of his football year so my assumption is that he if they needed him in emergency he would have still been able to play. But i also think maybe the giants felt that they may be wearing a little bit of control this game and they didn't need to rush him back. Who knows but you got colt. Mccoy come in at all. The old colt mccoy six of ten for thirty one yards didn't do very much a lot of stuff in the flat for colt. Mccoy wayne gelman. Who is getting a lot of touches because of saquon barkley season ending injury. Twenty four carries ninety four yards a touchdown. Three point nine yards per carry workmanlike. I guess effective but not overly exciting. Just grinding grinding. Dion lewis what woulda coulda shoulda had a huge game especially in the receiving department. A lot of easy misthrows dion lewis that would have potentially gone for touchdown first downs. That sort of thing you can see just. The two carries on ten yards will go to his receiving numbers in just a second you. Can you can see that Alfred morris forgot beck. I was on that team and still playing football for carries eight yards there. So they gotta you could see. They tried to run the ball quite a bit in the ball. Quite a bit evan. Engram what a day from room to fantastic catches on long balls six catches for one hundred and twenty nine yards in. The bengals still cannot figure out a way to cover a tight end. One of those receptions was against von bell and von bella ended up having a pretty good game. But again you keep putting vaughn bell in these deep deep mandy passing coverage situations in that is just not his strength as a football player. He is good. Near the line of scrimmage he is good in short intermediate passing areas. Where he doesn't have to move a ton in where he can kind of seek out the tackle diagnose the play and and make a play in short area of space when it's a long area of space he struggles in. That's been the case this year. And for some reason they keep putting von bell in situations in deep passing situations or man coverage in in kind of longer pass attempts and that is just not his strength just not as strength and they need to figure out what's going on their sterling. Shepard pretty effective day seven catches sixty four yards on eight targets. Golden tate was just harassed by mackenzie alexander. Today he got the best of them once but four catches thirty six yards on nine targets. Mackenzie alexander was was playing really great football today. I thought look here though. You see dion lewis one reception for seven yards on three targets to mrs it that you had there. Those were two big. Mrs dion lewis. He was open for quite a bit of space on those. There you go down here yet. Evan. ingram fumble that was lost. You know so von bell pick. That went up. And that was that led to a bengals field goal. There jamaal sheared forced fumble logan ryan a forced fumble in uh there were two. Those were both recovered there as well so The logan ryan one was an interesting one against drew sample wherein drew sample caught. The ball on kinda stood a little still because someone was grabbing his face mask. That didn't get called and there were a couple of other defensive. Pass interference penalties. That i thought could have been called on the giants at certain points in the game. They were not logan ryan. Jarred the ball loose and You know the rest is history. There he got the interception by nico. Layla and You know a lot of passes defense if you if you look here look here. Want one two three four five. Six seven passes defended defended by giants defenders today and a lot of them. Were in very tight. Spaces where brandon allen was trying to fit in passes that weren't really available They were just not available so they were. They were swarming an analyst of You see here. You got the one sacked by a sheared. The one sacked by leonard williams there so not a terrible day in terms of the bengals offensive line giving up sacks to the opposition but still not great one either Those those ended up costing them brandon. Here's brandon brandon allen's day seventeen of twenty nine thirty six a touchdown and interception so nothing real exciting they're manageable passes tried to give him high completion passes and you know. I think the giants defense was pretty. Well prepared for what brandon allen was maybe gonna show him not much on the ground Eight carries thirty two yards. For geo bernard john williams had the seven yard punt return a fake punt. Run for a first down. I was pretty exciting. I forgot to mention that in all of the good special teams areas. They are so good. Good play there. That kept the bengals in the game. And then of course you know four. Carry seven yard bagels not rush. Run the ball. And if you look. I mean gosh guys. The disparity of offensive plays here is just it's pretty astounding pretty astounding. Not the bengals. Didn't they only had three drives in the first half so they just did not have the ball very often a few three and out so they didn't have the ball very much. They were moving the ball. Very much a tee higgins five catches forty four yards and the touchdown caught five thrown to drew sample for for forty on five targets. And he did have that fumble. Geo bernard to catch seventeen yards on three targets. Tyler boyd rough day for him. Three catches fifteen yards on six targets. Yikes trayvon williams getting a mix a little bit. Thirteen yard reception Just kind of a lot of dink and dunk stuff the rest of the way. You look here They're the fumbles bell forced and recovered the one off ingram Look at the. I tweeted this allegation days. From josh binds mackenzie alexander combined. Five passes defended from those two in another from davis gather. I mentioned the great day from the bengals linebackers bell. ten total tackles including one for loss. Jessie bates seven tackles. Josh binds. seven tackles one for loss. Plus those two passes defended germain pratt. Eight tackles two tackles for loss. Jemaine pratt Leshan sims continues to struggle. I am really looking forward to the return of trae. Wayne's whenever that may be or android dairies phillips leshan sims unfortunately just continues to struggle in that. It's not helping the bengals pass. Defense sam hubbard. Seven total tackles including one for loss. Still having trouble getting to the passer does hubbard and really anyone else not. Kara lawson the alexander. Just the two tackles me. He was very active. I would say three three passes defended up here. Plus the two tackles really really active. Day from mckenzie alexandra. He was doing a lot of good stuff. Brian wilson. mvp of the day between playing defense. Having that kickoff return also made a nice tackle on the opening kickoff to so guy was doing a little bit of everything. It was awesome. Mike daniels was so close to having an interception imani bledsoe tipped went up and mike daniels kind of had one that he could have laid out for but he didn't see it until it was too late. You know margus hunt not not an overly effective day or not a big day on the stat sheet but hey for what the bengals signed him for and him being kind of a scrap heap guy in an emergency guy. He's given them a little bit at a lot. More than i thought he would He's in on a lot of plays. He had a pass deflection last week. You know. I've been pleased for the most part from what i've seen from sometimes because he's playing inside. He's got that immense height he can get out of position every once in a while getting kind of turned a little bit because he doesn't he doesn't have that lower squad your body but You know he's in there and he's he's i'm seeing a bit of a difference when he's in there so i personally have been kind of pleased from what he's given at least as an emergency rotational guy again. You don't you can't expect the world from that guy hit given his age and where he's at in his career and everything in what the bengals were using them for. But you know take what you can get. And he's giving them a little bit so gotta like that The rest just kind of a lot of a good day from logan wilson three tackles a tackle for loss. That was nice So you like that there too. And then you see the one of one. Two extra points from randy bullock Good day from kevin huber as well five points three inside the twenty and You know brian wilson. Jeez forty six yards per three kickoff returns Alex erickson at twenty nine yarder. The rest were just the rest of the punch. There were a little bit. Yikes they'll have the team stats up. They do not unfortunately so we can't go over some of that other stuff but that is where we're at with things right now and Cincinnati bengals are two eight and one right now and Unfortunately at the bottom looking up and That's that's where we're at right now and I've seen some not so complimentary things from certain people on which on sims. I will repeat them but i mean. Unfortunately that's that's words but hey like i said it depends on how you want to take this one. Either you can look at this and keep it as a spin it as a positive kind of looking at this and saying. Hey you know there. This was a little bit better performance than i expected from. A number of different players in a number of different aspects again. The bengals kind of reputation was dragged through the mud this week by a pretty scathing report about the coaching staff and some disconnect with them and players. I think everybody by now knows what report i'm referring to and You know so the fact that they came out nearly pulled off win. I guess you got to kind of be pleased about that one but again it's just a seven seventeen points and another loss and other one possession loss under zac taylor and it just. It gets tough to watch definitely gets tough tough to watch. And that's that's kind of the bottom line here. And i think he's four. What is he four. Twenty two and one as the bengals head coach right now in almost two seasons of football not very not very good another good question here from europe before we get on outta here. Do we need new scouts. I don't think you need new scouts. I think you need. I think you need more Positive commodity anthony get real. I know paul you you hate that. I even say anything positive. I i understand buddy I think the bengals need more scouts and more effective scouts. And i think they need to put less of that on the coaching staff. The coaches need to be intimately involved in the draft process in the scouting process. But they need to have a more robust scouting department. I've not been shy about saying that at all. I think the bengals need to there are two areas. The bengals need to address in my opinion. If if they're not gonna make coaching changes or be really proactive in free agency. Again or whatever. The whatever. the plan is for next season. i think they really need to look at two things. Number one is at scouting department's slash gm that whole operation in how they do things because there are way too many high mrs in the draft. There are away too many day. One day two mrs in recent years there are a lot of hits but there are a lot of lot of mrs and you know some of these picks from twenty seven twenty eighteen etc. They've really set this team back in two thousand fifteen that draft classes. Well really set team back a lot. So that's one area. And then i think they also need to address the and. I don't know exactly how you would do this. But the amount of injuries in the severity of them to important players really since twenty eighteen is staggering You've andy dalton. Missed the rest of two thousand eighteen. He you know you had Borough get injured this year. Dalton was injured in fifteen. I mean you have to do something with this medical staff training. So i don't know what you have to do it but you have to invest heavily into injury prevention and i again. I don't exactly know that's kind of a nebulous thing. But i gotta figure out something to not lose so many players important players throughout the course of the season. Injuries happen everywhere. Injuries happened everything. But that's that's just kind of the reality of it. So it's i don't know i don't know what again i don't have a specific way. You address that but you gotta you gotta find a way to invest in a better infrastructure there to try and prevent those because it is absolutely crippling to the team. The joe burrow thing in that hit. That's something different But there are just a lot of hamstring tweets foot tweaks ankles. You know a groins all these things in it. You can attribute it to the conditioning issue from not having a preseason and all that kind of stuff but you can't keep losing so many important players can't keep losing so many important players to injury and it happens to it seems to happen to the bengals more than many other teams in the league. But that's gonna do it. I think folks we went through a lot here and at least it was a little bit more enjoyable game in some respects than we thought. I think it's also it wasn't enjoyable game in a lot of respects to watch either but is what it is and we've got a few more to go before the conclusion of the season here and we really got to hope for progress. We really got to hope for some positive signs that we really got to hope that things start to move in the right direction. Otherwise you know many of you have already have them out but the pitchforks and torches will be coming out if no improvements are made and if it doesn't seem like a lot of changes will be made you know there's we'll see what happens. Thanks for tuning in everybody. We'll see you next time. I'm anthony costanza essentially jungle dot com. And you want your black insider. Join us monday for the new jump. Join us wednesday for a weekly show and throughout the week on cincy jungle dot com for all your news opinion analysis etc.

joe burrow bengals brandon allen zac taylor alex erickson aj green penney giants Joe burrow john sharon matt mimic ryan finley cincinnati bengals tyler boyd football von bell dion lewis Ross john ross randy bullock
Throughline Presents: Code Switch

Throughline

32:05 min | 1 year ago

Throughline Presents: Code Switch

"Hey everyone it's run and ROM team and we hope you hanging in there and everyone is safe and sound last week. You brought you an episode about the history of the US Census and it reminded our friends at another NPR podcast coats which are in the midst of a series that also examines the census. So it made sense. To share one of those episodes. It's a different facet of the census and who counts in America after the break coats which brings a story from the Cherokee Nation This message comes from. Npr sponsor capital one with capital one. A new savings account earns five times the national average. That's five times more savings toward that overdue home edition or maybe even an addition on that edition capital. One is helping you earn more towards your savings goals. This is banking reimagined. What's in your Wallet Capital One? Na member FDIC. What does it take to really make amends? And how should we navigate our digital spaces? I'm a new SUMMAR ODI each week on. Npr's Ted Radio Hour. We go on a journey with Ted Speakers. Who Help US answer. Some of life's biggest questions. Join us. Listen now. I'm Sharon Mudie sold Marashi and gene. Debbie in this is code switch from NPR. I didn't know who I was exactly. I didn't know where we started. You are Cherokee your grandfathers fought and gave their lives to save. Cherokee nation my family history is riddled with federal policy. Congressional actions right. I mean I see it. It's a story that I tell gene. The idea for this week's episode started here. The Cherokee nation has named delegate to the US House of Representatives for the first time ever a two hundred year old treaty with the US promises the Cherokee people representative and Congre. Cherokee nation would be allowed to appoint one member to the house. Remember this Being all over the news a few months ago the Cherokee nation as you just heard was appointing its first ever delegate to the US House of Representatives and it was a huge deal because this was a treaty right Cherokees had for more than one hundred and eighty years but didn't claim until this past fall. Americans ought to know that. Just because it's been one hundred and eighty years doesn't mean we've set back for one hundred eighty years. It Means. We have been suppressed and ripped apart during most of that time Own Long hoops which were telling stories about our and who counts in two thousand twenty. You can think of it as cova counter programming. But we think now's the perfect time to get acquainted because we're all going to have to pick up the pieces together this week. Our story is about the right to representation and almost two hundred year. Old Family feud and what both those things have to do with the trail of tears. Here's the principal chief of Cherokee nation. Chuck hoskin junior now as we gain our strength. Now as we hit our stride now as we look back at that document that rip US apart marched are people across the United States. Now you better believe it's a supreme law of the land and we're here to make sure the United States uphold its into the bargain. The document that chief Hoskin told me rip the Cherokee Nation. Apart is the same one that says Cherokees can have a delegate in the US House of Representatives. It's called the Treaty of mewat. Shoda naturally led to the forced removal of Turkey's from their homes in the south to Oklahoma. And it also led to the death of one fourth of all the Turkey people and today as the entire nation. The world really faces a new crisis. Chief Hoskin took time to remind his people that they've endured and survived so much already he wrote an OP. Ed asking Cherokees to draw on that resiliency to get through these times and to really know what he's getting at. It helps to understand the treaty of rich ODA because it's the Lynch pin to what Cherokee have had to endure over nearly two centuries twenty. Cherokee traders signed the treaty new shota going behind the backs of Chief. John Ross. His Second Chief George. Lowrey my fourth great grand uncle the Cherokee National Council on basically the whole tribe selling all of our land to the US government for five million dollars. This treaty is why there is a trail of tears. Why we everything. We knew why. We buried a fourth of our people in hostile territory. Why believe in Oklahoma and tribal housing e commodity cheese in have diabetes? This is my father was ripped from his family and sent to a boarding school why he never talks about our life before we got to Oklahoma and why I feel like a traitor because we keep betraying each other and we're not supposed to talk about it Delina duties not only talking about it. That's reading from her. One woman play her plan. Earth's a decades long grudge within Cherokee nation between two families the Ross's and the ridges over the Treaty of new agenda. I always joke that reduce and the Ross was were like the montagues and the capulets. We've been fighting for so long that people don't really know why but in Cherokee we we know why Mary. Catherine Nagel is also a playwright one with a different vantage point. When I grew up I didn't tell anyone I was orig- and when I first started telling people I was rage. I got a lot of shocked reactions. I mean it was almost like people. Look at me and say wow. I thought you were a good person after the break a new generation of Cherokee reexamined an old story. They've been told about who they are. Stay with US support for this podcast and the following message come from the Walton Family Foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at Walton Family Foundation Dot. Org Pay many here from the wild in the world science. Podcast for kids and families if you're looking for fun ways to educate and entertain your kid. We've got you covered five days a week on Mondays. Going to scientific adventure with wow in the world and Tuesdays through Fridays. Play along with our new game show too. What's in a while it's Alan the world from tinker cast in NPR's subscribe and listen now Jeanne Shaheen food switch part one history. Okay so the treaty. Newest SHOULDER GRANTS TURKEYS A delegate in the House of Representatives as you heard but it's also the same treaty that led to the trail of tears. It pit Cherokee against Cherokee the few Cherokees who reluctantly consented to removal against the majority who were adamantly against it. We'RE GONNA get to why that break happened. And why it still has not healed all these years later but first let's get our bearings with Julie. Read a historian at Penn State University and a citizen of the Turkey nation. Julie told me Cherokees did everything they could to stay on their land in the south. What's now Georgia Tennessee? North Carolina and Alabama the bulk of Cherokee people are unified against removal basically through eighteen. Thirty two what went down in eighteen thirty two supreme court decision. The Worcester v tortured decision comes down which essentially maintains the rights of the Cherokee nation. And says that the Turkey nation can maintain itself on its lands and it has the right to govern itself. This is a big moment for Cherokees. The Supreme Court rules that they have sovereignty Cherokees can have their own government and live on their own land. Mary Katherine heigl playwright and attorney specializing in sovereign rights of tribal governments calls this decision miraculous. It's almost like I carry that moment with me still somehow in my DNA. Even Hollywood couldn't make up something more miraculous. You've got a president who just winding national campaign on a platform of obliterating people and somehow you find solace in in the court okay so if the Supreme Court victory was such a miracle. Why did it lead to a Fisher in Turkey? Nation historian jewelry told me that has almost everything to do with who was president at the time. Andrew Jackson President trumps favorite He sends the signal that he has no intention of actually enforcing the Supreme Court decision. There's this famed quotes of him. Saying allegedly saying something like chief justice. John Marshall made his decision. Let him enforce it so basically the only way this ruling counts is if I back it up and I'm not going to This is all happening at a time when native Americans are being forced off their land by white settlers white settlers who have the backing of local governments Cherokees have fertile farmland in the they have land abundant with gold and land. The Supreme Court says belongs to them in President Andrew Jackson and his administration. As you just heard don't do a damn thing about it. So essentially there's a lawlessness playing out on the ground that every day people are experiencing that Turkey's can be robbed. They can be raped. They can be assaulted. And they have no recourse if they choose to remain in the southern states residing and so at that point Turkey. People are under mounting pressure. Three of the big names in Cherokee leadership fighting to stay on their land are the chief at the time John Ross Major Ridge a well respected Cherokee Warrior and statesman and his son John Ridge. These men are wealthy landowners. They're well educated. They have connections in Washington D. C. And they did everything in their power to get the US government to recognize them as quote. Unquote civilized. They were also slave owners which is definitely an episode unto itself is just not this but the reason why. I'm bringing all this up is because I'm trying to illustrate how the Ross's and the ridges were positioned before they got that huge Supreme Court win. They were fairly well positioned but things begin to unravel when the ridges start asking themselves a version of this question. Do we stay in the south. In a increasingly racialist south and become second class citizens or do we move west and maintain our sovereign integrity major ridge. John Ridge made the really difficult decision to move west and they did it behind the back of Cherokee chief John Ross. The ridges signed a removal treaty. President Andrew Jackson then signed into law. That's the Treaty of New Echarte. And that moment of betrayal. That moment right there is still fraught within. Cherokee nation because thousands of Cherokees died after that treaty was signed Cherokees died after they were forced from their homes and into prison camps to wait for removal and then more died on the death march over hundreds of miles from the south to Taloqan. Oklahoma pregnancies are not happening. That should have happened added to that. You've lost her elder. She's lost the people who can help. Put Your history in perspective and help mediate and remind you of of times that hard before and those are the people that were lost in removal. Your babies and your elders. So Shaheen John Ridge Major Ridge the two people who signed the treaty without the cheese approval. What happened to them? They also died but not on the trail of tears. They were shot and stabbed nokahoma by other Cherokees. It's not difficult to imagine. Cherokee people needing something to happen to make amends for this catastrophe. And you can't act out toward the federal government. I mean so in many ways this kind of internal violence is not just about being angry at each other. It's about being angry writ large but not being able to express yourself to the people that you're really angry so your turn on those you love part to the feud I think my generation is maybe the first that has really truly been able to have an actual conversation about healing those divides within Cherokee nation. That's Mary Catherine Nagel again. He's the attorney play. We heard from earlier. That's right. She's the one that called Worser v Georgia miraculous decision and she's a direct descendant of Major Ridge John Ridge. Her great great grandmother watched as her father was shot and stabbed forty times when she was a little girl. So that grief that anger that resentment that bitterness that trauma doesn't go away overnight or even a couple of generations and I grew up with my grandmother saying things like. Don't go back to tell Kwok. Kill you my father is A full blood Cherokee in an old speaker which means his first language is Cherokee. I always was curious about the trailer. Tears it was part of our history. My family never talked about dilemmas duties and actor and also a playwright whose ancestor was one of chief. John Ross's right hands. She told me growing up. She wasn't told the entire trail of tears story. I didn't know who I was exactly. I didn't know where we started. You grew up in Oklahoma. And you hear all these stories about creation but none of our creation sites are in Oklahoma there in North Carolina Georgia Tennessee and Alabama which is where the Cherokee nation West before the removal. When DID DYLAN LEARN? There was more to the story. She was in high school. She went to a small country school in Oklahoma and we were very lucky. That coach Parkin's was also a history teacher and he was also Cherokee he was the first person that opened my eyes that something had gone down. We knew how we Had Gotten to Oklahoma. We knew about President Jackson. But we didn't really know about the Treaty Party and that ultimate betrayal and deceit. And so when I learned this I was just I was floored. Honestly it was one of those moments where I felt so betrayed. Delano told me she felt betrayed and lost and so to be able to go back and find out where we were in who we were before we got to Oklahoma. It was something that I felt I needed to do. In order to understand myself my father so she went back to the South Delina in her. Dad traveled for six weeks from where their family was originally from in. What's now Murphy? North Carolina along the trail of tears to where they ended up in Oklahoma and they walked a lot of it. Like you said that. That's hundreds of miles. Well she wrote a one woman show about the experience called and so we walked and I had her read part of it where they make friends with this guy named Sam Sam's Cherokee but not enrolled and he's trying to learn more about who he is and where he's from. He's been studying in Tennessee and he offers to give Delano and her dad a tour of Red Clay Tennessee where Cherokee leaders were going back and forth with the US government to try and stop removal. Here's Delina playing Sam so the. Us government secretly moved negotiations from Red Clay New Coda and they didn't notify chief. Ross now after Ross. Discover the stretcher. You know he went home to home traveling thousands of miles collecting signatures for a petition denouncing the fraudulent treaty. Ross collected fifteen thousand five hundred sixty five signatures. The whole tribe rejected the treaty of new agenda but the US government was determined to move our people. This is the first time my father's hearing the Cherokee version of history not alternative facts from a young person of Cherokee descent in an official capacity. When my father was ams age he just graduated from Boarding School and enlisted in the army where they're only two boxes for ethnicity white or black. The government rendered him invisible until it only had no voice. Survival meant not talking about anything that happened and watching my dad. Light UP SAM speaks. I understand now why this trip is not about academic research or petty tribal politics. It's not about my insecurities either. It's about blood memory. Delano told me that trip made her rethink what it meant to be. Cherokee to see my father go to North Carolina and sit with the elders and have a conversation in his first language. I got to see him as he truly is. And what's been denied all these years and I always joke that along the trail. My father found home and I lost. My father was able to reconnect with everything that he lost and I was able to recognize spot was lost. It would start something like this Catherine. It's very important feed. Remember that you are Cherokee your grandfathers fought and gave their lives to save Cherokee nation. That's Mary Katherine. Heigl telling one of the many stories her grandma would share about their ancestors John Ridge and Major Ridge and remember the ridges where the people who supposedly sold out the Cherokees. That's right and this may not have been her exact words. 'cause I'm you know I'm an attorney now so I put things in attorney speak but even if these weren't her exact words as a Kid. I learned to respect and revere the Supreme Court because she would talk about how they took a case to the Supreme Court and they won and then she would always talk about how Andrew Jackson refused to enforce it. And that's why. The trail of tears happened so Mary Katherine Heigl had been hearing a very different version of the story. From a young age that her grandfather's the ridges were the ones who saved her people. Not the ones who sold them out. Yes she heard stories about how they were. Heroes not traders and how the real villain was president. Andrew Jackson growing up her family would take road trips to Georgia in Tennessee often. Making a pit stop at his grave. Yeah I think everyone in my family has spit or done. Some other Gesture towards that grave except me. You know maybe just because. I have chosen to write a play that says he is instead of that sort of gesture and I don't judge anyone who does that and I know plenty of Cherokees who have put a hood she also would play about. The relatives. Shells are play. But it's more focused on the worst or v Georgia decision. It's called sovereignty and it's about a ridge descendant who goes back to Oklahoma and ends up working for a Ross descendant okay so both of these women are playwrights both writing Turkey identity in Turkey history. I'm against each other. They do actually through their theater. Work and a few years ago Mary Katherine asked Elena to be in one of her plays. Here's Delina. She apologized to me for being descended. She was very up front. That this is who I am and I can understand. You WanNa work with me. And I'm sorry and I think that first impression of her made me understand that we can't keep holding grudges. Dissidents say in my grandmom was certainly say never apologize. You know we didn't do anything wrong but right at the end of the day the reality is is the treaty was signed in tears. Happened and I think there are a lot of people to blame for that. But my grandfather's signed that treaty and for the descendants of the folks who walked that trail. That trauma is immeasurable. So when I apologize. It's in recognition of what happened. I'm glad I didn't make that decision season for me to judge it but I'm very grateful that I was in that place to make that decision because I don't know what it would have done. That was our land. But it's also people and we always have to think about at what cost at the end of the day whether or not you agree with what the Ridge did? Let's just put that aside for a second and focus on the fact that we have a document that was signed by the president ratified by the Senate again. I know chief Ross. Tried to fight it but it was ratified in the Senate. And that means it's a supreme loftland and in that treaty were guaranteed things like a delegate in Congress my grandfather's negotiated that provision they were visionary and saw a day when nation would be sending a delegate to Congress. It's about time it's about time we need this Principal Chief of Cherokee nation is asking the US government to make good on that one hundred five year old promise of congressional delegate and we're GONNA MEET THE WOMAN. He appointed to do the job after this quick break. Harjo stay with this support for NPR comes from Newman's own foundation working to nourish the common good by donating all profits from Newman's own food products to charitable organizations that seek to make the world a better place. More information is available at Newman's own foundation dot org part three the treaty. Right when Charles? Junior took his oath of office this past August as the eighteenth elected principal chief of Cherokee nation. One of the very first actions that he wanted to take was to appoint a delegate to the house and then to rely on me as government relations director to move that forward. That's Kimberly T. She's the executive director of government relations for Cherokee nation. And so I'm jotting notes down and such and thinking about all that he's saying what it would take to get this accomplished And then he says I want to point you to be the delegate. So the person who's supposed to be working all this out what? Congress is also being asked to be the delegate. Did you say hold on Chief? I have to think this over a little bit more. You Okay I got this I got you. That was like the fastest answer. I've ever gotten to a question. She is very qualified gene. She was a staffer on the. I desk the Democrats created to reach out to native Americans and she was the first senior advisor to the congressional native American Caucus. She was a senior policy advisor on native issues for President Obama. Okay so Kim has all the Bona Fides. All of them she does. She really does but she told me a high school guidance counselor in Oklahoma told her to skip college because quote Indians dropout. She obviously didn't take that advice. Her parents are really proud of everything she's accomplished. We don't really know what she does. But we're proud of her sons. It's hard to policy work to people who just live their lives in. Don't recognize that their life is riddled with federal policy. Right I mean I see it. It's a story that I tell my family. History is riddled with Federal Policy Congressional actions from removal to the land allotment at my dagger upon as part of the federal government's way of breaking up communal landholdings of tribes and that was part of a policy and then Boarding school that my mom. My Mom and dad went to school. That's part of a policy to assimilate cultivate to discourage the speaking of the native language. Both my parents are Cherokee first language speakers and the boarding school experience is federal policy to this is what the topic of policy Kim is set to be a member of the house so I mean. Did she tell you what she wanted to do? Once she gets there she was prepared. She wants to make sure the federal government meets us. Obligations to Cherokee nation and a lot of that involves federal funding that has been set aside negotiated through treaties and various agreements. And this money is really important in times of crisis like the one. We're in right now. Appropriations is the dull policy term for this but chief. Hoskin told me it's anything but dull Gergi people Deserve a travel government. That believes that is a high priority. And we gotta make efforts to reach the goal of accountability on the part of the federal government to be clear gene. Kim T he will not have a vote in Congress to. I was just about to ask you this okay. So she doesn't have a vote. So she's like the nonvoting Congress members from American Samoa Guam and the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico in DC. While live yet yes so It seems like lots of places with Brown people with representatives in Congress who cannot vote that just very curious Accept all those delegates of other places full of Brown people. They're elected and Kim t he she's been appointed. Which is something chief? Hoskin told me worried house speaker. Nancy Pelosi she made the point that look. All of our members are elected now. The treaty as a as a explained D'Amato speaker is an agreement between two sovereigns we as a sovereign ought to be able to choose the manner and method in which we see our delegate. It's a unique seat. It's not even completely comparable with other delegates to Congress who are elected by individual voters so to bring this full circle to the theme of all our stories this month who we are and who counts in twenty twenty. I just want to stop and think about what chief Hoskin is saying. Here he's saying Cherokee nation is just that a nation that has its own government its own citizens and it negotiated for representation in Congress almost two hundred years ago so somebody would make sure. Those citizens counted jury Labor. Waiting all this time rate so. When do they finally hope to have Kim seated in Congress? Nobody wanted to give me a timeline. But they were hoping by around this time next year after the dust settles from the election. They would have her seated but now we have the corona virus pandemic to rights. So we shall see but Kim t told me it would be a historic move for the United States to honor this agreement. It made with Cherokees in the Treaty of New Shota we had so many citizens perish and a forced march from the east to the West and to have the United States step up and to fulfill its end of that agreement would be a small measure of justice. And that's our show. Please follow us on twitter. We're at NPR. Code switch. And please wash your hands and wash your hands. You can fall Serena Radio Mirage on twitter and me at G. E. D. E. Two one five. We want to hear from you our e mail coats which at NPR dot org subscribe to the podcast on NPR. One or wherever you get your pockets. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter. You should absolutely do that yes to NPR dot org slash coast which newsletter. The artwork for this episode is by we show you betray and nearly all the music you heard throughout the episode was provided by Laura Ordination. You can check out. We show you on instagram or on her website. Search for Reshow W. E. S. H. O. Y. O. T. you can hear and follow. Laura's work on band camp. Her last name is spelled O. R. T. M. A. N. And Her music has been giving us life this week things to. Gramley brewer for his notes and feedback on this episode. Also a big. Thank you to Rebecca Nagel Raymond or as Rosser Simon Moya Smith and Stacey leads for background. This episode was produced by just hung with help from Kamara diversion. You Sharon Leah Danila intern. Zion Lugo in Isabel. Rosario it was edited by Leah and Steve German. And of course we have to shut out the rest of our closer family. Karen Grigsby Bates Natalie Escobar Annella Johnson. I'm gene Debbie and I'm Shereen Mighty Saul Marashi busy oh peace.

Cherokee nation Cherokee United States John Ross Oklahoma Npr Turkey president President Andrew Jackson Congress Chuck hoskin Supreme Court government Tennessee US House of Representatives North Carolina Boarding School Principal Chief of Cherokee attorney Mary Katherine heigl
OITNB Episode 77: "The Return"

Cincy Jungle

43:47 min | 11 months ago

OITNB Episode 77: "The Return"

"Let's face it. The weeks are feeling really really long right now, we could all use a little distraction. So listen to the distraction podcast. Hosted by former deadspin writers drew Gary. David Roth the distraction is a new podcast about sports from defector stitcher. Each week the guys in their guests will break down what happened on and off the field whether it's NBA players getting testy on the court and Weird on instagram. Horrifying takes from sports talk radio that need to be eviscerated. Whatever the drama drew and Rothley ready to serve you the hot takes you need to stay distracted from well everything. Listen Subscribe to the distraction a defector podcast right now on stitcher apple podcasts spotify or your favorite podcast, APP? And while you're at it, head over to defector DOT COM to learn more about defector media and subscribe now for special prelaunch discounts. down. Take. Welcome to the orange new black podcast is hosted as Boogie. My co-host Zim was unable to make us so employees Salah today but we're here to talk about week one and one thing that I wanted to do is definitely do a preview of the bengals and chargers. Now I know that you guys know that we pretty much have the bengals insight, but I really wanted to get the chargers. So. I had the pleasure of speaking with a illustrated writer by the name of Fernando Ramirez. So thankfully, Fernando was able to stop by we were able to talk things bengals rush chargers. So I, hope you enjoy this and take a listen. Right. Welcome to the Orange is the new black podcast. I'm your host as Boogie joined by my co host Zim who days them. So what's up how you doing in a long time since we've asked Metcha here we are once again on. A Sunday. Week One thankless chargers what say you ace what's on your mind? Tell the People For. Me I think that this is a game kind of started to get excited about especially with things trending towards Joe Borough starting to be an MD captain. all things seem to be lining up in our favor. So I'm honestly Kinda upset that we have to wait until four o'clock on Sunday. We're not GONNA be there right at kickoff but I'm excited it's real interesting to see how things are going to go to weekend. It's been a while since we did last show where I think the last summit you did alive when together I think I was out somewhere. There's a little bit different is the first time that we've been live like in our studio recording areas. So a of people ask me hey, how come you don't know whatever we just got a crazy schedule world is crazy. So we are back in people wanted to is as to while we were on the subject of of the game. This Sunday is, would you think about the depth chart that has recently dropped on? A couple of days ago. Now, where that we're recording this on Wednesday evening he had any thoughts I personally thought it was interesting because the bengals have never in. Twitter is like the wild wild west whenever you tweet something apparently people had the challenge you on everything. But for me, the thing that's got to me is and I've been looking at the Bengals Depp sharks for years. Now, the thing that stuck out to me was that they came out with the nickel formation. So I've never seen them actually listed depth chart where they show who the nickel corner is. I've never seen them list one winning only have two linebackers spies. So for me, that was very interested in an intriguing. Are was going on there with that but it was interesting to see that they ended up doing that. So I don't know if that's a new thing. If got some media thing that's no. Zach wanted to put out there because when you look at different sites like pro football focus and stuff like that, they have different formations in different depth charts but it seemed like they did the nickel one whereas in the past we've seen them go with a four three, one So for me, it kind of threw me off because I'm like. What exactly are lay? Are. Is there a purpose behind this like obviously they ran a nickel the majority of last year they ran the fifty two through some three or four looks last year but it seems to me and this is just me going off of the vibes that I've gotten from Zach Taylor in from Luna from some of the players we interviewed on channel is it seems like they're hiding something in there may be some new wrinkles in the defense there may be some new wrinkles in the system man. When I said, some people are like Oh. We played it three four last year I know that. There's different wrinkles in different things that you can do where you can make something look like what you were doing last season, switch it up, and then that really throws off the offense. I mean NFL teams do that all the time. So I personally looked at it as okay That's pretty interesting. We've never done that before what were your thoughts on? I agree with a lot of things that you say if you think about that Taylor came. He's coming from a system where the offense is always taught to show you the same look almost kind of like a pitcher what pitch it you're going to hide the picks into it's actually let out drain. So that's the thing with the defense I think if you look at how the rams offices set up, everything everything is strategically set out to look the exact same way whether it's play action coming out the same exact formation or handle, toss whatever the exact same I think. They China, this same philosophy because they got so many working bodies of people when they originally started seeing. So many people that were four three and they had. A. Sex. The linebackers parts didn't. For people so I think they just say you know what we're GonNa do a hybrid version of owning stay. So then you get sean, Williams the like a rover linebacker notice different intricate parts going around. So moving forward to this year, I think they probably had some bigger plants were some more interesting pieces with power of frank because of him being a true five sack I. think they're probably a little bit more limited than what I think they probably wanted to but. In, in this kind of goes a Haywood I was. GonNa. Ask you next his. You pointed out to me Kelly. Kareem one Khalid Korean was drafted. That was the one guy like I don't see how you make the roster whatever. But if you look at the depth chart, he's like next step. I think one of the things that I'm looking at, get put in a nickel but I think they just did that one for a strategic standpoint but then. There's going to be so many different looks that I think they are really going to give the people where they are. They aren't going to be lined up the exact same to in same where I'm sitting, they're going to be showing you the same thing. In the in the reason why not because they didn't have to keep six linebackers works in the show you nickel because That's what they were anyway, but it weren't the fact that they kept all those linebackers day got some plans in. You got. You gotta think about W- Kim Davis gatekeepers role wasn't college is a position that doesn't even existed NFL. Because he's listed as. I mean, you might see him coming up the a just lined up like when we go to play Lamar Jackson I- -ticipant him, shadow them off. I. Anticipate a lot of different crazy things like that but I guess go back to the main question I was asking you. Is there anybody from a depth chart perspective like specifically a player I know John Ross a lot of people hit me and I have my own fillers online. John Ross will be the numbers whoever's but a lot of people I almost shot the MSN Whoa I thought hang is what they dragged them in the second row. Yes to me. I got a lot of feedback on that were. Were there any other ones that you? That was a great job Russ to me wasn't wasn't too surprised than just because if you've been following see Higgins, he really hasn't been playing he's been. himself and having some health issues. So I do I do wonder about the chemistry because borough kind of talked about. Him getting his chemistry down with Rosso I. Don't know if that was a red flag or does something to throw the other teams off that may be listening. Nets, maybe one thing that I'm worried about I mean I'm pretty sure we know that he's GonNa have chemistry with boy in Asia Green is Aj Green Dan shocked me though Sam John Roster. Anything that really shocked me one thing that I I wouldn't say shocked. But one thing that stood out to me that spoke volumes is the fact that billy prices and even listed as a backup at any of the positions he's only listed as a backup for the center position and that's a position that trae Hopkins really has a lot on Medani I think let me that a dingy like you said outperformed him shack Calhoun I'm Kinda. I I don't want to cut you off because you're in. Zone. But isn't it a very, very telling sign that shot cow home? I gotta did just picked up a waivers is going ahead of billy price at the guard position. Yet has nets very telling right there I don't know. WHAT THAT MEANS And then you look after him, you got Fred Johnson Fred. Johnson has made in three positions before they even put billy price there that speaks volumes. SACK. Tackle. Let's let's say you don't know what it means I'm gonNA. Tell you what it means that people not saying audience town than they say about John Roth Billy price is. The biggest bus, but the narrative from phases John Ross is the but. I think if you're GONNA call someone a bus on the same. I. Think you're right is definitely billy price like John, Rawson gave us two hundred receiving yards in one game like when has billie price ever had an amazing dame or you know some some pancakes or anything and you could argue that both of them have been hurt they both had injury issues a lot of them. Had their seasons in with injury issues. But Johnson, me has at least shown you that he's not a total bust like when you look back at the first three weeks of last season. That's evidence enough to say, Okay John Ruskin play. We can't say that about billy price like you can't I mean obviously he's a of lyman. So it's hard for people to see them unless you're watching the trenches while the game is on but literally like billy price never sticks out on your screen in a good way and you know it's nothing against billy price understand you know he may be. Watching this, there may be some Ohio state fans watching it but if you want us to change the tune on or you WanNa, just shed that bust label, you have to come out and you have to play in in this coaching staff I don't office that the game doesn't fit because he was a guy that was drafted by the previous regime I don't know what it is. I just know that he has not in my opinion lived up to the hype and I don't think anybody really has seen him really live up to the hype whereas with John Ross at least. Moving on to. Walmart say. Because I do read a couple of. This really really bothers me is somebody GonNa have to comment or tell me on twitter like what am I missing right has you just ran through stuff about John Ross John Ross has a season where eight sounds got through. Most of the season was injured first entire season everything like that. Never. beat out anybody billy prices only in consecutive starts maybe two or three times ever like so. He was a first round draft pick. Right. The narrative. For Job Ross. Is that he's a bus when every time he's healthy, he actually produces somewhat right. Not An excellent low to me. If you're GONNA draft a wide receiver in the first round inner just in the league like six eight years and actually play they're not a bus me like if they have any, it could be marginal success because that. Just doesn't make it. Look at look at Ottawa receivers they got drafted in Andrea. I'm looking at the boys raft light looking to receive traveller in all these guys ended up the league. Why isn't it? That in the commerce I'm looking at him billy towards put muscle and Price was hurting the I see nobody gives rough benefited doubt. But when it's billy price is somebody told me once I'm. Semi as State thing. It's not. It's. Thing. So it's not. Somebody that s from Ohio from Cincinnati and how hard they go for Ohio state players it's all. Thing. Because I mean taking it away from his price taking it away from billy price and just going to AJ hot. Remember what size? He was complete garbage but there were people that were upset that we got rid of Jayhawk or would not just be realistic about Aj hot because there's that Ohio state bias and I think that I've seen it in I can't say it for everyone. But there are people that I defended promote our Ohio state fans that have given billy price. You know excuses my cousin included I remember us to go in on billy price early like I'm Talkin. The. Rookie year and you know they were. Being too hard on Magna I don't have I'm Bengals Fan I, you know I, I like Ohio. State I'd be lying if I told you that I follow them as much as I follow the bingles, and so it doesn't matter what college you came from. If you get here, you're not up to par whether you play at the college that I cheer for are not. You're just not good. I mean there's no way around it. So I think like you said with billy price, there's definitely some bias towards him I think with John Ross. I think that takes certain players like and I think. That John Ross was a top ten pick to I think think. Billy prices still a first round draft pick like if your first draft pick cannot get on the depth chart somebody incorrectly just now. Say He's the number of or wide receiver no, no no no Sir he's listening is the number two hours and was just told you every single town midden when Marvin Lewis was in benching him like an idiot any Sundays ever light produce- or done anything like lined up. Teams. Scared to death of him in the only people that don't get it are. Uneducated or like Miss, educated bengals fan like. You. Other friends that don't like. Is A lazy narrative that due This. Autumn. steelers, dues. Roth coming out they love them. Now they're scared to death Ross. One thing is the one thing that you can't coach like, Hey, what's the kid they had marcus and they had the other do autumn news that was fast and they will always get past. It's like one time with the steelers, right? Like easy game. steelers fans understand that like when I talk to them in most of them consider him a bus but it's a lazy narrative that the media's perpetuated in the sense of Oh he's always hurt right. But if you play fantasy football or anything like last year like like the beginning of last year, the first of all of the NFL season Ross lead in every category, right? So. Like you could never be a busted me if you're injured that doesn't make you a bus the only people that got wake up and understand like how important is to the team are bengals fans like when they actually play have a coach that lines them up by down never been seen as a green on the side in Ross on the other side for Yada even think. Ross will never be a number one receiver what rose may never be a number two. But if he's option on your team, he going be in this league for a long time you cannot coast type of speed and our get it. If he gets her auditor COO, the amount of passes want to highlight. Yeah he's dropped some but I'll take the boom over the bust. We have every single time. You might give me one drop, but you do in a saying game he came back and called the Dan ball all the way into Seattle. SEATTLE. Sixty hour bomb right before handing that right after the drought if he's coach correctly enabled him in using a real free. He would eat there is no difference between him and Tyreek Hill skill. Wise for me like coming out of the League. Now, his aggressor then like that maybe not nine not be worth it and I guess maybe this. Hits me the wrong way because people always say that he's a bus but I'm like, listen listen this guy right here billy price. That's a bus because when he's healthy, he can't do anything. Thing I think were really makes people and I'm just GonNa play devil's advocate here because I think don Ross is going to have a solid season I think what really makes people view him as that is the top campaign now we can. We say. Is a first rounder, right but there's a different. There's a different set of expectations that are set up when you're a top ten pick and then you couple that with the fact, it's high. REQ-. Look where tyreek Hill Liz compared to John Ross like. Tony. Everything years though. Racing Round pick. If he was a second round pick I, don't think anybody's talking about them but you also did. You Pick John Ross over Patrick. Mahomes. Marshon lattimore. People got over at nine other teams eight hundred eighteen Dan Patrick mahomes either I gotta get over that whole. I mean I'm sorry. Right after you can't look at like, would you say Corey Davises a bus I think people will say or gave and core Davis is a bus he knows that but listen listen he might agree on a lot of different points. He can't stay healthy because it is frame I see them trying to get bigger anything like that. He may never ever work out but I'll tell you this banks fan. John Ross is healthy any plays in the NFL he's going to play in the NFL for another ten years because speed stays in the league by guys like the Sean Jackson stay in the League. So why people are saying I know he's only begun in when you go to and when he goes to. And when he goes to another team. All Put them in a situation like imagine him on cheese or team that has like a bunch of wire receivers and they don't me there's no pressure on in only. Sixty dollars a year in the eight hundred yards consistently, he can do that for the next eighteen years in his sleep. But people just don't understand that concept in a look at the top and like you said, look at all those other different things around it, which aren't important because I in. Spill milk number nine pigs on the board we picked the guy, I liked him he had to be standby if everybody was healthy around him AJ green boy everybody in the saints I think everybody will really really see the benefit of Ross but we don't have that and we gotta go by what we see. So I'm on everybody's side in in that standpoint that he can't stay healthy but if you couldn't pay. Their. Parents he'll. Unicorn. There's really a similar narrative between him and Mike Williams because Mike Williams ironically has struggled to stay healthy as well and he's had seasons where he's had you know up and down production similar to Ross and I just think that is I. Think people are looking at the top ten pick I. think if he was picked the twenty one or something like that I don't think people would would be on him, but he's he's not a bus by any means like billy price. Prices Way worse off than than John Ross and if you don't think that I don't know what to tell you like i. think like at Ross has season where he's able to stay healthy I think that this is GonNa be a big season for him, and then you also have to take into account. The fact like Zim has said the situation that he came into was not a good one not trying to make excuses for him but Marvin Lewis as I don't know if I can let that go to the show but player closer was that knows about the situation at Marvin Lewis did not want John Ross. He didn't want him there. Number two bad parent with him and Andy Dalton you know Andy's gone we can finally say any not the strongest arm John Ross superfast not a good mix to put them two together. He's under throwing AJ. Green. What do you think he's going to do to John Rob's so you got that situation now he's got. A better quarterback Joe Borough he's got a better coach. Zach Taylor obviously learn how to utilize the services last year and we'll continue this year on we're confident in it happening but you know although John Ross my ball out this year obviously I think we not writing on the wall debt next season he could be gone another guy that could also be gone as William Jackson. The third we can talk about that as well with Jalen Ramsey getting a twenty one, million dollar. A The market for cornerback is going to change and obviously the bengals have already pay trae Wayne's so even if William Jackson bows out, is this going to be a team that's going to retain homes and what are your opinions on that matter? Absolutely on Pam he's not getting to Jalen Ramsey money what he's GonNa get some good money because you got other guys. Like Hayward there's a lot of corners out there, but I think from a bengals perspective, we understand his potential and we understand what he could be if he hit the free agency class just like Byron. Jones just did he probably will be leading that that that that class I will have to see what other corners he's against, but he in my mind now Everything changes. You know next season or whatever. So the value of what Jalen Ramsey at twenty, one, per twenty, one, twenty, one per year guarantee you'd think it's fourteen million a year guarantee and sell for me Williams Jackson for me when taxable never be Jalen Ramsey in my mind whereas accent is really really really good and he's really a good number one corner. Jalen Ramsey in guys like Sherman of the world and stuff like that, and they're just a different tier. Could be at a at a very, very high level cracked the top fifty in the NFL but oh, never get selected Jalen Ramsey consecutive lockdown every single year in the league that's not him now to me. So I I don't think that when you were paying that way either way I will put out a bit right now. This is my heartache. The the the draft pick coming up this year is in the first round is a corner no matter what. Right right. I think as I think it's definitely going to be a corner I think. The the bad thing about the trade winds deal is that they spent so much at the position historically when they've had to corners they generally outside of Pacman Jones, which is a unique situation because he was older wasn't gonNA cost as much but I'm talking about the situations when they had Leon Jonathan Joseph when they've had those two corners there, they've always tended to pay one and let one walk. So I wonder what they're gonNa do with this especially like if AJ Greenbaum obviously want to retain him I'm not sure what that spells for William Jackson the Thera- I. Emma William, Jackson the Fan. But some of the statements early on that, we've kind of heard from the coaching staff in terms of talking him talking about him being more consistent in things like that have made me feel like there's somewhat down on him, but I would love to see them retain him. But I, think that is all based on how? He plays the season if he goes out and plays as a shutdown corner in some other team is willing to pay him. Let's just say eighteen million a year that wants to jump out of the window because they feel like they're a piece away with any overpaid get him. I think in that situation of bingos won't match in they'll let him walk. Yeah I agree. I agree. I mean going into that where we're still talking, you know semi depth chart in stuff when I was looking at a depth chart a lot of people who works apprising being starting corner right I. Guess I have a I wouldn't call it a cynical look on or on certain players but I look at body frames, body types and based on what I've seen in NFL somebody like John Ross in my mind will never play sixteen games in the NFL season in these guys are just big strong whatever everybody is hurt. If you guys don't follow us on instagram or twitter, please make sure you do as Boogie is new stripe city on twitter instagram on mine is Zim. INSTAGRAM. But when I post on Instagram I show stories because a lot of fans talk about injuries in Oh God we've got another person hurts raiwind a I'm showing people von Miller is a world all these different people going out for the whole year. Injuries happen. In there's very few players that actually make it through sixteen games in the season but most fans don't really look at that part of it. The one thing that does concern me about the cornerback position, which makes me know that base valued quarterback position very, very highly from the old regime to the New Jersey is that you can go get your first round corner next year and put the pressure input the levers on your sides dairy phillips although I believe in them I don't believe in his health like all gaze at he had coming off that buffalo game, the good part returns and all those games where he had a heavy influence on the game, he always came under those names. So I I don't look at him is a bus because he got hurt but I guess the expectations aren't there either but he's a very good corner. But if I'm thinking long term, just the way his body frame is now in a way that he is matched up to some of the other corners in our room I just don't see implant a full sixteen in that. Right is a little scary to me because the Banca that route starts to get really early thin at that. No. Think one thing that we have to kind of pump. The brakes on is that dairies phillips is just going be stood. There's definitely going to be a learning curve and you gotta think about what we had last season. It's now don't say this the wrong way I'm just saying I see a lot of people jumping on Darius Phillips hype train and it it really honestly is similar to William, Jackson the third except he didn't play anywhere as near as much as William Jackson. The third didn't twenty seventeen and William Jackson the third had a super elite twenty-seven similar to what areas Phillips at, but you have to remember that was. A, very small sample size. So as optimistic as I am on various Phillips, there's some concerns like Zim has raised with his health. You know he did get hurt several times last season, but you can't just go based off of that. I know we look at the PF scores and we're like, Oh, my guy was so amazing but look William. Jackson the third from two years ago and look at the two seasons after at like it is going to hit different if you're expecting that you know Keenan Allen isn't going to do anything against various Phillips do not go into the game thinking that just keep an open mind with. and. With that being said, we got transition to this gang. Keys to the game for you in terms of this charges game, how are you feeling about it? Do you feel like this is a winnable game? What are the match ups that you're looking at? What are your thoughts on the game? From a roster standpoint. I think our roster matches up pretty well I feel like this is as of every game that we ran into last year, we will always talk about the roster we're looking at. Like the days that most people highlight from the charges will be Melvin, Ingram and boasted when you pull up the PF from dunlap hovering and all these guys combined they're very very like they're they're not that much better. So there's a lot of different things that I look at where I just look on paper. That I feel like we match up very, very welcome. Now bengals coming into this as a three point underdog. Everybody, knows me including yourself knows that I am far from a home when it comes to predictions or anything like that but I fill in my heart-to-heart. Brain starting quarterback tyrod Taylor who is really more. So a game manager if you remember him in. Buffalo. Like I do whatever. He doesn't the same criticisms that are always hand for Andy. Dalton are saying criticisms that I have a Sarah is moving chains on third down if you ain't going to be no hero, everybody can't be wrestled Wilson. He's not going move. He's pay attention to third him. He rather towed away they go. Make them play in. For that. We could go the whole season. You could put up the whole thing right now you ain't gotta ask me. Who would it a match us on any these games coming up I'm, GONNA. Say I'M GONNA look on a sheet and I'm GonNa say who got the better quarterback and we got the better quarterback. Period so. And I'm GONNA do every. Area Week. It doesn't matter like people tell me about the take on common. It doesn't matter if you have changed if you ain't got a quarterback that can go get it. And I, say we'll. Excuse me. He's not an Italian quarterback. tyrod Taylor in knowing what I know what Derwin James Man out, who is the bread and butter the backbone in defense that's a big blow for them. They don't there might. Williams. or He's hobbled we're pretty healthy but we can. Get your predictions on the game whatever I wanNA talk about the before we close the show is the health report on Gino Atkinson the gain. That just came across earlier today. I would probably have to agree with you I think looking at this game when James being out Mike Williams is still a game time decision did participate in individual drills today for the charger. So it it is a possibility that we could see him. But when you talk about tyrod Taylor literally is like Andy Dalton solid quarterback could start in this league not a guy that's GonNa. Win The game though but unlike Andy Down, he will try to like not turn the ball over. So that's that's one thing I'm looking to see is, can we force a turnover against him? Obviously the the guy this game joy Bosa, you know one of the top players in the NFL. Now underrated not overrated like he's just a bee's and what Hamby and possibly on Bobby Hart honestly terrifies me. I don't want him getting shot seeing against against a Joe borough. If he could just walk away from this game with one sack is good with that. Let's not have them have a game where it's like one and a half to two sacks or something where he wrecks the game. But I think in all honesty, this is going to be a first game that they rely heavily on Joe Mixing. I think. A lot of people are sleeping on that I. Think they're. They will get a couple of passes from from, but you have to also remember how strong the chargers secondary is as well. Even with out my man Derwin James, you talk about their new signee over there with Chris Harris Junior, Guida Aj green himself had in his top five a few years ago you talk about Casey. Hey. We're really look at the corners if they have, and that's going to be a match up that I'm really looking at as our receivers versus air corners because we're four or five deep. Deep at least on the starting to surface. So they have some really good corners there but I think that the edge really goes to the bingles because number one joe boroughs plan in a game where he doesn't have to play in front of a crowd that could be a bad thing. But I think it's going to be a good thing for him that allows him to get play in, get his feet wet in able be able to kind of come in and and do what he wants to do. Right so I think joe? Borough is definitely going. To get things going and I think that this office is going to get things going and I think the defense is also GonNa play a vital role in this game against the chargers. So with that being said, I, think the keys are containing kidding Allen and neutralizing Joey Bosa those will win this game you look at their best to players their nose guys. So if you can do that, you can get Outta here with victory. I'm so when my prediction I'm just GonNa? Say A win I'm not gonNA say a scorer I'm just gonNA. Say bingles win. For for me, I just want to throw one more point to before we close this thing out. Somebody. To. Compensate. Boroughs not better than tyrod Taylor hasn't taking a snap just what I know like. Explain it like he's better than him already if you've seen a map practice or anything like that, just from a decision standpoint based on the years that seems rows Taylor so I didn't want to say that but the one thing that I I wanNA occurs bengals fans to look at this year and I want you to watch it so much closer. Derek. Going to be little instances like if you guys go back and go look at the Jaguars game that we had last year or They're they're going to be little instances. Where there is a game for the taking and we don't take you. There's going to be little is is not going to be that many games that like say we lose we lose the To like the Ravens or somebody like that because we just get blown out of the water I could see games like that for shorts. But in a close opposed game teams that whoop are s are teams that scoreline of points like period if you look at the cheese days or all of our blowouts or that, and when we play like teams that are good teams don't score points like the last year we absolutely hang with them. So this is the one thing for Zach Taylor. This is what we find out that Taylor is the whole entire year from a game plan standpoint. There's GonNa be little. Games, that JOE borough loses us. They might not even be a game where you could definitively say, Joe Borough was on a on a on a day when winning driving through interception and we lost the game because of it is GonNa be. Throughout the course of the game is going to be a lot of coaching things that you're gonNA notice that we're going to be questioning throughout the game or we're going to be applauding. How ever we get to the end of the game. Is, how, it's going to be all year I think they'll pressure. Taylor while the whole game. So from week one, I'm really looking forward to seeing that because like I said, those teams chargers stuff those are. Bengals don't have problems with people outside that are in this chat. Ravens. Fans, and come other people that don't follow. US We. Don't lose. Big Time we don't lose by a lot of points to teams that scored like a shitload appoint period like that never happens in in the eight games that we had that were with them once or last year those are all games that I with the job borough will probably win in if he didn't win all of them, you probably get six out of eight of those just on a strength of from a game management standpoint just making the smart decision in moving on third downs period in not giving the ball right back to the opposition a key points in a game that's not GonNa happen this. Year. So the focus is really going to be on that Tiller and that's the main thing I'm looking at like one the week four I'm no and I'm gonNA smell it. We're GONNA come over here and we're GONNA be talking about different decisions that he's made. The last point that I wanted to say before we close bad boy out is Gino Atkins dunlap Daniel, showing up on the injury report today on a Wednesday before football game is not good that does not happen. They were out there dressed and everything like that. But normally your older players they get arrested whatever you have any thoughts on ace. Talk to me off Friday they don't practice Friday Dan. I don't really care about Wednesday fantasy football. You know about Wednesday unless it's Thursday or Friday if we get the Friday and they're not practicing denied or not GonNa play but I think it's cap light like darning on the sands who I mean wh what reason would you have? You Know Atkins Practice for right now? So. So you can actually get acclimated like playing football right before. He's been playing football and they've been playing football for the past four weeks. So I mean you're still hitting the same people. You're still going against the same people I made some to me I think that is just smart to do because let's say for instance, Gino has a shoulder injury. You throw him out there and who gets AC AC joint sprain or something like that was what's the purpose like I'd rather not happen in the game that in practice where at least we get some snaps sadder Gino and versus him just being out of there. So to me, I'm not worried about it and to like I said Thursday Friday Friday he doesn't. Practice then I'll start worrying but I think right now one thing that I think Zach has shown at least from the limited practices that we've seen that he's not afraid to just let somebody sit out because I. Think he's Kinda show shop based off last year with Joanna going down Aj gone down that's just my daughter and I can't I can't say I'm not a doctor or anything like that but I think that he's just if it were me and I was a message wishing Gino's getting a little older he kinda regressed last year. That's why we're bringing in all these players around him I. Just wouldn't wouldn't make him practice until maybe Thursday. Friday. I'm with you too. I how about this I'm opposed to injury report every week Wednesday through Friday whatever. I, own Wednesday, your name is still on there for. Even last year. That's that's a real injury usually no no I. Definitely. A real. It's a real injury. Now, how serious like you sound like? Very few weeks that. I don't know I. was like, you say, let's see. If it is like you injury issued in obviously we're we're probably in trouble there and it does seem like you know they kinda hit the panic button assigned to defensive tackles immediately but I'm not going to sweat and say we get that. Now if we get there and he's not, he's not a hundred percent, not one hundred percent, but if he's not ready to go. It's not limited practice if it's not a full practice or something like that then I'm I'm going to be worried but even even with that, it's hard to say that I'll be worried because I don't know like Mike Daniels report to light I don't see them going into this game without Gino an Mike Daniels like one or two of them will have to play in. Worse if they played I think we'll still be we'll still be fine. I think they both they all play is just for us for for a pessimistic bengals fan that's always use the injury in it's been so positive lately. I'm just going I pose every week for the last four years like wait they but but I. Is Somebody still on the is not wrestling. Do you. Who Do you think has a better chance of plan might Williams, Jean Jackets Atkins I would say Gino Atkins 'cause my home so. Yeah Yeah my winning. A couple of weeks ago as well. So yeah, we'll have to see like you said it is definitely is something to take notice of for sure. But we'll have to see I, think with this was Marvin. Lewis. Like we know Marvin Lewis is going to do I can't predict was AC is GonNa do from year to year like it. Changed up but now I definitely hear where you're coming from like on a Wednesday we never see stuff like this. But if we bill Belichick, we probably would like each coach is different. I don't know. So that's something to monitor people keep on checking out, ACA got any closing thoughts for this week coming up or anything just in general let's just go get this dub. Who? Who? All of our shows on. On our on this pocket on this podcast network. Medically. Tall. Fifty jungle just look it up in the podcast or or spotify please make sure you follow leave us a review on their Mitch and me, and as that really really helps us out a lot like mentioned us give us a five star even if you think that the podcast such as did do it because it's just a cool thing to do support in your local food. Aid Indefinitely be sure to stop by them. Live this Sunday he'll be live around four. So pull up his instagram as underscore. One here psycho. Football. I'm a shut up this week. I'm. Going to try to set up unless I see something stupid. But I'm just saying I just want to watch the game I want to have like a whole bunch of comment that you just like you and me talking bengals and stuff. Ops We could talk transit and then people to. The communism underscore who on instagram is really really fun. I'll probably start up around like four o'clock four fifteen soccer talk whatever I'm GonNa say before the game was the game is on shown Huda Huda. Let's face it. 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The Orange and Black Insider Bengals podcast: Combining talents

Cincy Jungle

1:10:10 hr | 2 years ago

The Orange and Black Insider Bengals podcast: Combining talents

"Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the orange black insider bangles podcast, Anthony Kazan's at joined as usual by John. Sharon over in the the Queen city area. John. How are you, sir? I'm great. I'm in the room that I grew up with I get I get the vibe sometimes that our listeners don't think me as Bengals fan because I'm very negative lot. But as you can see behind me, those are just some juries. They got over the years the one the middle's customers this year on the back. So I I am in fact the Bengals fan case. Some people may not think of any I wouldn't pretty big one back in my my use. Yeah. While it's it's also a nice little shrine to your achievements is a is a kid is true. All the lily baseball calmer house team the youngest on that team. So I heard me nice while good to have you with us in John. It's it's basically the start of. I mean, it's one of the major events of the off here. The NFL combine is is sort of underway. Interviews teams were kind of arriving in Indianapolis last couple of days. News notes talk about their what we'll get to that along with some other news notes. Terms of Bengals coaching hires. We're gonna talk about the John Ross situation. We also have a question of the week, and we're gonna we're gonna kinda have a little bit of fun trion. It's been there's been a lot of drama with the Bengals in in such a with supposed to be kind of a quiet period of the calendar. So we're trying to have a little fun and have a discussion with you the listeners as well. And then we'll get to some listener questions at the end, you can get to us in the live YouTube chat with your questions throughout the entire show will get to those if you're joining us on since he juggled dot com. You can leave. Him in the comment thread there you did to get them to us on Twitter at Bengals OB. I or you could give us a caller shoot. A text will be taking texture out the show calls later in the show nine four nine five four to six two four one is the number. We're happy to have you with us in kind of before we get to the segment later in the show about the question of the week. Just in case, you you don't follow us on Twitter or you didn't see it. We asked a question about which. Which Bengals figurehead? You would like to see a documentary on. So whether that is one that's I mean, there's there's been a couple of documentaries recently that have been made whether that's a thirty for thirty or football life, or what ABC there are some interesting. Interesting people that I think we could choose from. We've already got a lot of responses so vote if it's if you haven't yet vote on Twitter at bingles OB that posts air, get Ashir information. And we'll we'll we'll talk about that a little bit John. Let's kick off the show though, with I guess, let's talk about the coaching hives last week at this time we were talking about how Lou in remote was basically the favorite. The favourite of who was left who had not said. No. And then low bowl a day or two later. It was officially announced that he was he is now the defensive coordinator for the Cincinnati Bengals he's been on the job for less than a week. And now he's at the scouting. Combine. I, you know, I don't want to rehash a bunch because we talked about him for a little while there. But I mean, I guess it's it's expected that he was the guy given some of what we had heard leading up to last week show. Are you feeling any better about it? Or is this kind of a settlement by Zack Taylor the Bengals? Yeah. In honestly, they hired. I was hired like Thursday like the day effort show back in January, then they hired everyone on Thursdays. Well, so the really helping the salad bad. But no. Why should my thoughts aren't really different with? In a room. Oh, I cannot say his name Brian or about it myself. It's going to be such a struggle like writing his name throughout the season. Am maroon. Oh, Anna room. Oh. Comes from Staten Island site, assuming I have some routes there. So no, but twenty nine years coaching experience last times defensive coordinator was with Miami for twelve weeks, but before them was in the early nineties with believe marine merchant academy. So it's been awhile since he kind of build his own defense. And that was always going to be a risk when you hire the very last offensive coordinator than fell. It's never going to be a slammed on from the beginning. But as we've talked about Email, it's really hard to judge coaching hires initially, especially when you have guys that without an experienced track record to the name await Philip's for someone like that. So at the very least positives are he's worked with Taylor before they have a good relationship that they had a Miami. So I think there's going to be that camaraderie, and that cohesion the by association with them, so they can establish some type of culture early on on both sides of the ball because he is by the fault segments important coach on the staff because tales handle offense. And there was going to have full control over defense in what the defense looks like who's on it. We it's far too early to know, and it kinda stinks. Her him that he had to really, you know, exceleron his evaluation of the full roster right before draft season really begins for a lot of these coaches now that they've reportedly hired their final two assistance on the defensive side of the ball in maybe a an a room had some hopefully had some input on that. But I think it's a I think it's a decent coach. And you know, if he turns out, well, great if he doesn't. Then maybe we'll be able to have the very least they'll be able to start looking a lot earlier in the calendar year for his replacement. Yeah. And you know, we mentioned this last week. There is a lot of a lot of inexperienced coaches. And or first time guys getting kind of promotions on the staff in remote one of them. You mentioned he was defensive coordinator. But it was at a. Small school at the college level. So obviously, that's you know, there's some worries there Jack Taylor himself for some code head coach. So there's experience on the staff quickly, you met, you looted to the fact that the Bengals basically hired two other assistance. One is Nick Eason former NFL player former Steelers player, and he's he's gonna be coaching the defensive line your thoughts on him. I the Bengals apparently wanted Aaron Henderson. And he said no or basically opted to go to the Rams, ironically. And now the Bengals have got a Eason in the fold for the defensive line. Yeah. So on the podcast Liska who has co host of of locked on Bengals he kind of luted to or he talked about Eason's track record. He play for the sealers for while under dick lebeau. And then he went to be Dickel those defensive line coach. Tennessee. That's where you spent most of his coaching Chris afar before he went to Austin P this past season. So he has a lot of experience working with the defense that dick lebeau runs. The like the old fashioned. Not yet three four defense. Obviously, you know, as the years have gone by LeBow has evolved as defense according to while. I kinda like that at higher in that sense where you know, the Steelers defense dominated the Bengals for a long time when they're at their peak, and they always had a good control of of defending the run, which is obviously something that the Bengals head alum issues within honestly, I liked the Bengals last offensive line. Coach shake Bernie thought he got the most out of Ryan glasco in the three three games that you play by five. He was making a nice step. I I like the the progress that car Lawson was showing under him. And you know, I like, Bernie, I think he brought some good things. And I think eastern having just retired from the NFL handful years ago experience under experienced a coordinators. I think this was assault higher for for when they made it in. You know, the defense line is. I think the fed a lot more comfortable about the defensive line in the season last year than than what we do now because there's more uncertainty, but I think eastern provides good coaching good and good just overall experience as a player to really get the most out of the guys there, and hopefully bringing some guys that provide qualities that they don't have right now, obviously familiar with north which is which is a big. Plus general interesting, though, mean Steelers guy ransom different defense concepts in the Bengals have traditionally run Marvin Lewis who they have on the roster. So gonna be interesting to see how that turns out. And then the bagels seem to be hiring tem Lukaku. I think he was was he from Mississippi State at Mississippi State, and he's gonna come in and being assistant here as well. Any thoughts on him? I know he's kind of a little bit of an unknown guys. Well, and so continue coaching trees, I believe he was with great Fianna for number of years with Rutgers. And it was with the Tampa. Buccaneers that was when she was there might have been a little bit after his time. But he was with the box. He was the forty Niners as defensive quality control. He's been largely just like a general defensive system, but most his work has been linebackers because that's the dominant in college in new dominated Colgate never made an apple creative. But he was actually born in Congo and graduate bachelor arts from Colgate. He's a very intelligent guys. Only thirty seven years old. I think also in his late thirty so containing the trend of no young guys kind of getting their feet wet still in in the coaching game. And coming back to the NFL. I think is gonna be good opportunity for him. Because honestly, he has like like, I don't wanna say the most free reign. But like his position group is going to experience. The most volatile changes with you know, guys coming on maybe guys coming in. Because honestly, the linebacking group shouldn't look anywhere close to it was in twenty teen. So I think he's going to have a decent of input on. What is going to be on the field for for that position group this year in I'm excited that we have some. Kind of brand new on the scene that can that can provide some like fresh innovative a coaching techniques. Yeah. So I mean, that's that's young innovative. That's kind of the name of the game with the Bengals staff this year, you know, whether it works out or not you gotta say, I guess kudos to them because they kind of set in their ways and things got stale. Now, they've really kinda redone a lot of different stuff in that. That comes with the the young the youth on the coaching staff. There's there Taylor and Duke Tobin kinda took they took the podium on Wednesday at the NFL. Combine there was a lot of interesting information one was specifically about a a certain player that was a recent top ten pick. We'll talk more about that a little bit. But you know, Taylor kinda talked about the fact that. Yeah, there there is a little bit of e-. It's either coaches he. Worked with or if he was not familiar with him or his never worked with him. You know, he basically he said, you know, they were people that he knew through people that he worked with type of as kind of an old boys club in some way or another for for Taylor in his coaching style. Yeah. And another point where I mean Tobin produce this nothing Taylor has gotten pretty good in short time as a head coach to contact in talked with the head coach Cam socks, not give away a lot of information. But Tubman clarify that Sean McVeigh did not get tailored the job. That was a point part of his thing expressed confidence in Tyler Boyd. Hopefully, they've kind of lose to a potential extension going forward, but mainly for for from tokens press conference because unfortunately, I think he got booted off the stage early because next after him was Kevin Colbert the Steelers GM, I guess everybody in Indianapolis talking. Antonio brown. But before he got off. I think he's talked a little bit about the twenty thousand quarterback class and something that has mean a lot of other Bengals stances that obviously they great quarterbacks, but they weren't interested in they weren't even considering taking a quarterback and twenty seventeen two thousand eighteen when guys like Patrick Mahomes. Shawn Watson the Mark Jackson. Even Josh Rosen were play for them. Now, he's talking about you know, he's evaluating between eighteen class. But says it's not very at the top. You didn't rule out taking a quarterback? And I think that's I think that's important to note because you know, they both Taylor Tobin expressed confidence on, you know, the usual of the sales time, but at least keeping that door open that possibility open that if the right guys there than they won't be afraid to take him to just improve the team any way that they can. I think you know, it's it's not much. But at the very least is not saying, you know, don't is confirmed. One hundred percents started for twenty teen urges any veteran for that matter if the door is open, that's all that we can ask I guess. Yeah. And there. Some other interesting comments about from Taylor saying adult is, you know, right fit. And he kind of said some similar things about Dalton that he said when he first got here, and he reiterates the fact that he likes what Dalton can do in his in his offense of system. So what you will see how true that is in other items are that he that he in do Tobin talked about. There. There was a couple of other. Couple of other things in there in terms of free agency. You know, they talked about Tyler I for Victorian talked about Tyler I for kind of said, yeah, we'll talk about him like the same thing. I said last year right executive, right? And it is the same exact situation because productive guy when he's air hurt missed most the season. So, you know. It's. There's that. And then I don't I don't know. You know, kinda was he was a little lukewarm. At least from the words in what I heard from him is a little lukewarm on dark as Denard coming back. I don't know if I read that differently than you did. But he kinda was like, wow, we'll see. Yeah. Also the birth. The. Like, I I guess he said what he wanted to say about situation without confirming anything, but it wasn't like any resounding Bota conference. Like, he's like a centerpiece of of anything. But you know, it's it's line season people call it smoke season, but it's really line season there. They're all incredible liars. We do our very best over that. Right. Right. Right. And you know, some of its coachspeak some of it's just you know, it is what it is. So but interesting comments on the less from both do Tobin and Zack Taylor, obviously, they're their scouting players at the NFL combine as are the coaches in this new staff that that is getting pieced together is down down in Indianapolis, looking at the prospects this year, and you know. We'll start hearing things as April comes around will start hearing things about how. In who the bangles are connected to in terms of rookie players guys. They're they're kinda gravitating to one other thing. I thought was interesting. It was you know, I it sounds like they're gonna we'll see I mean. Did you think that they're going to put more Tate emphasis on you know tape? Or the interview or do you think they've seen enough on tape from some of these guys that it's now more about meeting them talking to them? You know, it seems like Marvin Lewis staff really really was into the interview process at least from the outside looking in. Do you get the same vibe on from the staff, or is it too soon to tell offing in is a little bit too soon. But in general, I feel like most of those tendencies Louis kind of really escalated towards the later years Marvin was had a lot more experience under his bell. With with Taylor's of first time, head coaches learning what he saw from like McVeigh, I guess backpacking days Joe film that he might have a different process in general. But the combine is like the most important thing at the comments like the medical evaluations in just meeting the players in gained grip on who they are is people because at the end of the day, these are very expensive employees that that you're counting on as human beings to work onto your system into fit in your culture. Like, most of the jobs only, it's not like most of the jobs on these guys getting paid to to to do the thing that they're very good. At in most. I believe that most coaches will say that tape is king. And it's the number one thing that's important about it in on spectator say anything else, but as far as like, you know, catch a bottle shaking analytics in like handshake in Olympics that our old office language fogs in her head. And I'm not sure that that's exactly going to be rehashed. But I mean, I mean wh we'll start after like, you know, if if Taylor ends up here from more than a couple years will start to get a a notice on his his tendencies in the draft class will be very interesting to see from the start because we're in a good position. They have the second most picks in the draft in will will will start establishing what type of trend of what type of the players he gravitates towards. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up this. Another quick little bit of news. The Bengals were awarded three compensatory picks in the sixth round. I mean. Yeah. That that occurred since our last episode is while I mean, obviously this team needs depth. They need to replenish some positions. But. I don't know that three six round picks us all those is really gonna net yet a lot of impact players personally. But in and if you look at the track record under Marvin Lewis in the who they have used six round picks on it. It hasn't net very much in terms of Tom Brady's there. No, no. Will there might be one this year? That's always the the goal of this thing is to find find that that type of player. This is the origin. Black insider bagels podcast. He's john. Aaron Anthony Kazan's a you can get this show on itunes on Stitcher on Google play. So so on the megaphone platform that you could get it on YouTube and all of our stuff is on cincy, jumbled dot com. So subscribe to our channels download our material and. Yeah. We've got some interesting stuff coming up. I think over the next handful of weeks in terms of draft shows and combine shows and all that kind of stuff so stick with us. Listeners. This is Luke Thomas show hosted m finding if you like mixed martial arts and combat sports. You should check out our weekly show. The m a hour each Monday, we speak with the top athletes enemy from world. Champions two rising stars also bring you in-depth analysis on technique in our Monday morning, endless segment. We talked to some of the brightest minds in the game. Plus, we answer your questions regarding the latest news and headlines of the world of professional finding find us on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody to tell at and chief of the verge. I host podcast every week called the verge Hass. My friends Paul Miller debone, we've got a rotating cast of characters from our entire site, which is about technology, how it impacts culture, and how that is all a big cycle that causes us to have a wide variety of feelings that you can listen to every Friday we've done over three hundred and six years since avert has been around, but you'll need to listen to one the latest one to get caught up on everything. In tech news virtuous is on apple podcasts. Spotify everywhere else. You listen to podcasts. Check it out. So it is line season. At the combine were thirty two teams congregate in a giant hotel ballroom in Saint almost steakhouse, and basically they all fly to cover or lie within the media or say things that the media takes control one of those things. Maybe one of the biggest news pieces was our own generous and house ported that the Bengals were. Be in the process of beginning. To field offers for the twenty seventeen first round pick. Here are the facts in the situation. John Ross if the Bengals were to treat him would it would cost them a little bit north of five million dollars in dead money on Ross has seven touchdowns career. But only twenty one twenty one receptions. Overall the tape is not tremendous Ross the production is not there. And honestly, if the Bengals were to successfully trae John Ross, they might not get more than let's say a high day three pick. So when I came out when the the news first came out, the initial response was you know, is a stupid. Why would they why would they do such a thing? You know, John Ross is still twenty three twenty four years old. We haven't really seen at fully what he can do as best. But there is another side of this. And as as comes with a new head coach brings in most of his assistants. He has types that he likes at certain positions. And when valuing the roster he has his own perspective on you know, who kind of fits with the guys that we are established here that we are determined to build around and as a result sometimes the roster shakes up so to dismiss this rumor right off the bat even with do Tobin, heavenly the nine in Zack Taylor kind of. Nine as well. We can't I guess put completely across the table. Because there's also reports coming out today from ESPN's cats role that teams were enquiring about trading for rostering the season Bengals claimed that they weren't interested interested in that. So maybe this rumor was just the culmination of a few months in the making kind of leaked right at the time where these things sort of leak, but Anthony, you know, if if the Bengals were truly considering the trade John Ross is a good or a bad decision. It's bad decision on a number of different fronts. And if you wanna kinda be stock market guy about it. You know, it's it's buying high and selling low, and you know, I think there is other in you mentioned also that there's there's a pretty significant dead money hit if they got rid of him, especially for guy on his rookie contract. So. So in the Bengals our team that usually do not I think they are one of if not the lowest in terms of teams that carry dead money, currently, that's just the way they structured in. I think part of that is, you know, they don't guarantee as much money on contracts and all that kind of stuff, but for all of the bellyaching that I know I have done about the team in their lack of free agency, focus, at least they have kind of that where they can say, you know. Yeah, we have maybe we haven't done as much, but we're also never salary cap hell, which is never fun for for any team. So. Now granted that wouldn't that wouldn't do much in terms of putting them in salary cap help. Here's here's my thing with it. You have guys behind who are the top three receivers on the team aged Tyler boy, John Ross you have guys behind them that probably need to some need to be elevated. Somebody to probably be shed. I think I think Cody cores a guy that you probably need to sit here and say, well, maybe that's just not working. And there's there's some other guys in there. Maybe elevate Tate is more of a possession guy. Maybe that's he gets another shot. I don't know if he is in the mold of Taylor guy that might that may not be music to to something Xeres. But my thing is. We've seen players in in receivers in particular. Hell there is one this on the team last year that did it your three big jump. Tyler boyd. Nelson galore is another guy who ended up become same. Same kind of thing. I think marquees Lee a couple years ago in his third year down in Jacksonville. He ended up after struggling his first year or two he ended up coming up and becoming a decent decent player. Even other offense was terrible last year. But. My point is is there still a lot of untapped potential there. Still a lot of. I guess it's still to me. This should be an experiment type of year for Zack Taylor in that. He should be able to to even if it's for year. Have Andy Dalton have John Ross and use them in assistant would be like does this work. Now that doesn't mean you don't you don't bring in another wide receiver that doesn't mean you don't bring in another quarterback. I it's just. To me you've already experienced three straight losing seasons. You know, you've got some talented guys on this team. I would hate to just have them. Just really kinda dumpster fire the entire thing. Get rid of some of these guys. And then all of a sudden we're looking at three win season. What's what would be perceived as kind of a major regression from the last couple of seasons, which is saying something, and I think the John Ross deserves a chance in this type of pass happy offense. You know, they the. The Rams used guys Robert woods. Brandon cokes that can do some similar things in terms of speed. And all that kind of stuff that Ross can I think you I think Ross has been Ross is his own worst enemy in Cincinnati. But I think he hasn't made any. You know, he didn't make any friends with Marvin Lewis or anything like that. But also, I think there's been there were missed opportunities for big plays last year by antidote them. There were some some questionable play calls by Bill laser in terms of the fact that Ross. Yeah, you can go deep with him in. Yeah. You can shoot him deep. But there should also be a lot of yards after the catch title is call to him. And there is not. There has not been that easy pitcher catch get Dalton's confidence. Get Ross's confidence up early in a game. You know, maybe it's an eight yard play. But it's a screen and all of a sudden, you know at first down. You're you're looking at second to and it's a nice play. It's kind of things we go. Well, I like to see him get one shot in this offense. And I think that. Next year. If you try and trade him, if even if it doesn't really work out as well. If you try and train next year, you probably won't get that much lower of a pick than you would this year. I don't know I to me I I just think that it's he needs another year. You're in Cincinnati, the play devil's advocate because I know a lot of people like our us. But a lot of people from the start did not like the fit not only with Cincinnati in like Bilas offerings. But also with any belt, I was one of the I was one of the people that assume that because Ross played with Jake Browning in Washington Browning by large college of any Don, not not the greatest arm. You know, not the greatest philosophy kind of on the shortest side or whatever. But Ross produce fine him Washington with a limited quarterback Browning and just off off the face value. I would think that the transition from Brian to Don wouldn't be as bad as it is. But clearly Ross has not succeeded at all at once. With Don at the helm. I think he had the second highest uncatchable target rate of all guys targets over twenty yards. And I don't think that's coincidental would be considering any Dolan score thrown in the ball. So if this is a realization that two years in this guy, you know, were going to be committed to a quarterback liking dull, and this guy is not fitted to play with him into to succeed with him, and he's not gonna be able to fulfill its potential it is at the very least beneficial to open the possibility of making him expendable for an asset or you could find similar production because I think that's that's it's production against potential with Ross because the productions probably replaceable seven touchdowns is kind of a live for only twenty one catches. But at the end of the day twenty one receptions off fifty five targets, you can probably replace that in in some way, shape or form. But it's like if you get a fourth or fifth round pick or you're gonna get someone who has the potential to become what Ross can be. Go back to is Ross going to fulfill potential with Andy dawn or a quarterback like any thrown in ball. And that's like the the push and pull that going with. So I from that sense. I can understand why this trading make sense because if the Bengals do wanna win now into fans doing announcers Ike Taylor than getting the guy. It's better within on to be that third receiver in an offense. That's probably gonna be ninety percent eleven personnel through series on the field. It's not the worst thing in the world. Obviously in again, like going back to your stock example, this is like them buying on start up that just started at the IPO sina tank for unfortunately reasons out of control because I think we can agree that Ross does have his own issues. But most of these plaguing him weren't exactly his fault. So now you're selling him at a very low price in teams are going to pounce on that with a fifth or six maybe in the fourth round pick. And then potentially see that value rise up when you still in early twenties. So it's not a good deal on the service of the Bengals by understand some of the logic behind if if they wanna get this. Going fan came for an obscene tile, that's still pretty much in in the makings of being possible. I can understand it from that sense. But at the end of the day like they're not gonna get back nearly what they put in for offs. But it's also if they do end up making steel, which it still blew the up in the air. I can understand them. Just cutting losses on the player that unfortunately, they they just kinda see out is even beyond the fit with the offense. That's in place. He he he's probably going to be injury prone for most of us. Clearly, he hurt himself drain the forty yard dash if you can't maintain that lead athleticism without getting dinged up more times than not in becoming I guess the wide receivers of Tyler I for then that's that's unfortunate loss, you're gonna take on his evaluation in if they feel like this time is right to unload on him. Then there's at least that perspective or you can understand it. Yeah. There's other. I mean to play devil's advocate on my own argument here. Who knows what he's like in the locker room? Really? I mean, there could be some issues. Let's be his own like, you know, right? Yeah. I mean, there could have been some sort of issues there. I had heard some rumors that towards the end of last year that you know, he was kind of at odds with with the team. I thought basically that was a Marvin Lewis type of situation he and Marvin Lewis in. So so I kinda see some other factors. If if a high pick is offered like a second round pick or something then you go k will maybe we listened a little more intently, I don't see that being the case. But. I mean, I just I think it's worth giving him another shot in this in this in this new system in look, if if you were in this isn't really a great reason to say don't unload him. But if you were to trade him look at the draft the first round picks from twenty thirteen through. I mean, basically. Last year. Right. I mean, you had Tyler I for one Pro Bowl. But heard all the time dark has Denard decent slot guy. He's had some injuries here. And there, you know, that's the first round pick Cedric. Boy, he like, we know the deal there. William Jackson missed his entire first rookie season. He's been a pretty good player when he's been out. There didn't have an interception last year though. You know, you've got Ross, and then you've got really price last year who missed a good chunk in season. So you know, when you say kind of lays a fair, oh, you miss the Val. Normally, I'd say totally John I get it. But when when there's kind of track record of like a lot of hype picks with some issues. I mean, you you can't keep you can't with an on these types of things and not saying that all of those guys were whiffs 'cause they weren't. But I think they're they are more disappointing than I think we thought they would be I think that's a pretty fair statement. But like successful teams don't have like three consecutive first from pigs offering someone in one offseason in likelihood of all three guys bags like zero. That's exactly what is with the Dennard in a boy in that. That was like the start of like doubtful because if you're not active in free agency in you're likely on the draft, and then you have unfortunate. Mrs in the top of the draft. That's like it's inevitable that you're going to be unsuccessful. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, it these these kinds of picks kinda put the Bengals behind the eight ball. But. As you mentioned, John. I think. Kinda wanna ask this portion of of to you. Tobin and Taylor kinda just said now, we haven't even had in token was very fatty that we're not had discussions about John Ross. You also said this is a time for great lying. Do you believe that they have? I think let me just back up for second. One of the one of the initial sources was Tony Pauline who is a draft guy. He's got some, you know, he's got some good connections and all that kind of stuff. However, he was a guy couple years ago that floated the the rumor randomly that the Bengals we're gonna cut ties with Carlos Dunlap in that never came close to happening. He kind of floated this us one of the guys floating this out there as well. Obviously. In report also ran with it. But I mean, do you do you think that this was just like a random thing, or do you think that like you said maybe this was based on some calls received earlier? And now as kind of people are reconvening and being around each other. They're talking about it more. Do you think they really are set keeping John Ross based on what they said, I believe whenever any GM says we are not interested in doing this at all. It's because they haven't had an offer. That's even close to what? They want and I think that's honestly, the reality of any type of situation with this. And it could just be that they have simply not entertained any offer at all. But when you when they're usually when there is spoke there is fire not saying that's a hundred percent the time. But when you're talking about a player who is largely been unsuccessful in his first year in half of his rookie deal may not fit entirely with what the offense wants to do. You know, I it's not implausible for it to be untrue. But at I think a vast consensus came to the conclusion that Ross is not worth anything more than like a pig. Just outside the top one hundred. I just don't see the Bengals even looking at that. And that's essentially saying, yeah, we're not we're not doing this. And that's basically, I think were that statement could have come from. If not them just to tell the truth in on a sleep. I'm not I'm not distressing. I'm not I'm not saying, you know, you know, GM's, and coaches are just bad people. But I just don't trust. Most of the words that they say from this time of year. Yeah. Yeah. But for now, John. Ause from aids Bangkal. Hopefully, Jake's big leap in year. Three that that we we have seen Tyler boy make another guys make in the NFL. This is the orange black insider bagels podcast. I mean, he he's John cheer. You can get this show on itunes on Stitcher on Google play. It is also on the megaphone platform. You can also get our material on YouTube and all of it is on city juggle. Hello. I'm Spencer hall from Espy nation, and I wanna tell you about my new show. It seemed smart it's smart as a show about people doing things that for some reason or another same smart at the time. Those things might include doing a little cocaine and driving a bike up mountain or I don't know maybe racing one hundred miles per hour across the country in the middle of the night with no one's permission or even stealing a bat from an empire is room in a major league baseball park, check it out. And if you like it Tele friend, I'm Spencer hall. Don't do anything smart. John before we kicked off the kind of everything we've been talking about. We put out a tweet on our on our account Twitter account here about is a poll which team figure which figurehead would you wanna most watch a documentary on? So mean, there's thirty thirties is football life. There's all kinds of stuff we unfortunately because Twitter being what it is only allows for answers. So we kinda just went with like three major ones in other. Chad Johnson leads away by landslide fifty percent, boomer. Sizing with sixteen percent. Twenty five percent was for Anthony ios and nine percent was from other. We also got a couple of interesting answers all talk about those in a second. But who if you were to say, I wanna watch a documentary on this person this their life their time with the Bengals what they're about. Give me one one if you want, but some of the more intriguing names to you that you'd wanna watch documentary about so the obvious interest, Chad, but he's already had a full life. Yeah. So I I would be around too because I'm sure there's a lot more to say. So that's like the obvious answer. Because I like you just just saying like, okay who really guys just gravitated to you the most wound watching them who had just had the most involved in their lives. And honestly for the most part of the Bengals players had been pretty uninteresting, especially in this in this era. But I think beyond those answers, I would like to learn more about Ken Anderson, because I believe that you know, I think these by far one of the greatest hall of fame snubs, and I think that's a story worth telling. And just to get more context about how good he was in that era, and you can see on on some era justed statistics. He he was clearly the best best when he was playing. And maybe tell tell us about that I Super Bowl loss and just kind of how he was a part of those early or late seventies teams that kind of kind of establish the Bengals as as the beginning of illegitimate franchise. But just just to get to know more about him because I think there was a feature on him in the inquire since inquire last year about what he's doing now and how it's really care about the whole hall of fame thing. But he's one of the greatest players and in this franchise history. That's unfortunately, it's snubbed by the greatest, honor and pro football. And I think Bengals fans would be really interested in learning more about the person that he was because they already know because they're they're they're the few people that know that how great he was that at playing football. Yeah. Really good one. That was one that. I you know, I. Wavered back and forth. In terms of putting boomer or Ken Anderson on the poll, I put boomer just because he's just far more outgoing. You know, I think a lot more fans are just more familiar with him just because he's a more recent quarterback, and he's on CVS arm. You know, all kinds of platforms and really intriguing guy. So I you know, I put him there. Just a couple of other interesting answers here John that I thought was worth talking about Mike Donahue on Twitter and Chris Francis in the YouTube chats, Chris Henry, I thought that was that would be a very interesting one. Yeah. Real real Debbie real sad as well. Interesting. From Evan hill says David Pollock. Sinn interesting one. Jamie at on Twitter. Sam why I got a couple of those as well. Sam Wyche, obviously, very intriguing guy bagels history. So all those I would love to see. I mean, it depends on your definition of a bangel figure. I think Terrell Owens with the very interesting to see as well. Even those the Bengals for year one guy. I would really or you know, if you wanna kinda group together did just get forgot about a lot because it was such a bad air of Bengals football. But the Jeff Blake Carl Pickens Darnay, Scott groom. And for me, particularly Pickens is interesting because Pickens was a guy that. He was a an abrasive wide receiver. But he wasn't like the diva guys that he saw Moore late nineties early two thousand you know, that, you know, we're kind of the show men guys. I guess he was a guy that was at odds with ownership a lot because he hated losing. And he was a guy that I just didn't hear a lot from him. And I think part of that is the fact that nineteen ninety four ninety five ninety six he's there's not social media and all that kind of stuff. In. He just wasn't. I think he was very. Not. So he wasn't very much into talking a lot in the media in. He wasn't this look at me guy. But on the field. He was amazing. He was at the fastest guy. He wasn't you know, Calvin Johnson Bill, but he was he was a big guy. He made incredible catches. I I don't know. I just that group of guys I think would be very interesting to see hear their perspectives here. What they have to say about the Bengals in ownership. You know, I the those guys that are very interesting to me Darnay, Scott another guy that you know, he was he he was a little bit of a one trick pony in terms of a deep threat guy. But got he was fast, and he put up some decent numbers with the Bengals as well. So I was since I was your era in more than mine at honestly just thought of this. Now, would you say it's fair to say that Blake Pickens, Scott, that's real is like the value brand version of Culpeper Mawson Carter in Minnesota. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, I guess you could say that. I think. I think Minnesota had a little bit more because they also had they had Chris Carter that Randy moss. Nate Jake Reed. A lot of a lot of people forget about Jake Reed. And Jake Reed was a really really good football player. And what's what was crazy is? They had those three with Culpepper. They also had you know, ram Cunningham had a nice resurgence with them too. So it was like a crazy. Yeah. You know? It was Blake was a guy that didn't do. So great on the intermediate throws. But the short in the deep ball. He was just outstanding. He in Pickens head, you know, a couple of Pro Bowl seasons between both of them. And they just go overlooked so often because they were in an era that the team was just so bad. And I mean, you could you could go back and talk about what what could have been. I mean, you look at the fact that the Bengals basically had they moved onto Jeff Blake ahead Carl Pickens they had Darnay Scott than they invested. John Carter, and you're sitting here, and you go will that should have just been that that offense should have been able to take them places while we so, you know, what ca- Jonah Carver who by the way would also be very interesting knock meter watch. That would be another interesting to watch that would just came to me like that. But yeah, I mean just some of those guys that you know, we hear so much about the guys in the eighties because it's he went to Super Bowls. We hear about all the guys in the Martin Lewis air because they were more competitive than so for me. Those are those are couple couple of guys I would be interested to hear a bit more about we had a comment on the thread since he jungle by darkest deity, Mike Brown ha talking about used jockstrap. That was. The less. I hear from his mouth better. Yeah. I would I I would. I'd be fine about that one other one I thought, and I guess this has to do a good one from Sean Blankenship here. Corey Dillon Will Smith. Yes. Yeah. Will Smith Odell Thurman that would be a really interesting one Andrew Siler documentary on a way. He I don't know if you're serious or not, and I've probably pass on that one like tragedy one I would be interested in and even though he played for a number of different teams. But he spent I think the most of his career, and unfortunately, he made the news again this week is Adam Jones that might be just chronicling his life. Maybe his upbringing in all of his troubles. That might be an interesting one for me. I don't know about you. Yeah. Jones. It's more set like like, you're disappointed that this stuff happening. But at the same time, it's just sad that not only I'm Jones in rainy, Gregory, the traffic from a few years ago, he suspended again for for substance abuse. And I feel like a lot of people take the Josh Gordon route where they just assume that these guys are stupid, and they shouldn't have have these privileges that should. But I mean, whether it's addiction of drugs or alcohol like the serious stuff in unfortunately Jones appears to have happened again at the same time. You can't you can't Callum to produce for you for your team. But they're also humans in the undergo a lot of stress in whether it's Jones, Gregory or even like, Gordon. It's sad enough. I feel like we should probably have a little more empathy for those guys. Yeah. I mean, the the shame in in wanna get on a big soapboxes about it. But you know, I just I think that he would be an interesting guy for documentary back now. But you know, I. You're right in the fact that the shame of it for me is you know, he's in his mid thirties. He's got two girls at home. He's he's married. And he's it's one thing if you know kinda keep getting into trouble or, but it's the same kind of things the same venues the same situations. It's the same to me. It's it's like. I don't know. He's just not learning or he's just like you said, maybe is addicted to certain things, and I don't know, but not my place to judge. But it would be interesting, especially what happened in the Las Vegas situation that tragic situation years back hearing about that on my said that would make for some calling stuff. Thanks for everybody. And you could still vote the poll is open on Twitter. We just wanted to kind of have a little fun talk about some of the more interesting. Interesting people, there's some there's some more good ones here. John. Roger Moore says TJ zodda, it'd be a good one. The one says to Keough spikes would be good. Rusty Shackelford says Andrew Whitworth as I think that once. Yeah. That that's going to be in the making once he closes his career. I think that's I think they'll do a football. I on him. I'm sure. And so in good for him that he's been able to keep his career going any recently announced this week that he's gonna play again this year. So so good for him. Yeah. Right. And rusty follows it up like to see a doc on the two thousand five bangles. Yeah. There's a lot of characters on that both on the on the players side. And the coach side a lot of good stuff. But. For now the Bengals and they were very well done. Carson Palmer was it football life on him. They did one on Paul Brown, which I thought was very entertaining on cell that John. Yeah. That was really well done and they did one on on Ocho awhile ago. So you know, there's probably more coming up. Maybe Marvin maybe somebody else. I don't know. But you know, hopefully, they they spread the wealth a little bit in terms of making some of these documentaries. This is the orange black insider Bengals font cast. He's John Sharon, I'm Anthony Kazan's. We're going to get to some listener questions here in just a second. You can get get those to us via YouTube. We've already got a bunch teed up. So we're gonna try and get to as many as possible. You can get those to us in the live YouTube chat the comments right on Sissy jungle dot com. You can also get them to us on Twitter bagels, OB I or by texting or calling us nine for nine five four to six two four one. This show is available on I tunes on Stitcher of Google play on megaphone on YouTube in on cincy, jungle dot com. John. There's a a bunch of different ones. I could I could go with. I guess we can start with. Quickly on this when Frank from Virginia. What's the opinion of how the defense is going to be set up three four four three hybrid personnel. Changes that sort of thing I think that's kinda the question do Zhou or with the Bengals given the defensive coordinator situation who they brought in on defensive line as defensive line coach. So your your thoughts on that one? Yeah, they're going to be rushing. Four guys in dropping seven the coverage for seventy percents naps. Whether it's there in four down Lima three down linemen for the twenty something snaps in the game where people like to harp on their quote, unquote base, baggage is, but the defense isn't changed much. Hopefully, they were a little bit Longdon on their scheme a little bit with their linebackers in putting their positions like having attack it on things can change that much. But honestly, though. It is interesting how some assistance for the Bengals have experienced that three or four, and they could be more multiple and do a little bit more different things. But ultimately think it's gonna be pretty much the same. Yeah. I, you know, I think the Bengals will probably still do the nickel, you know, a lot of nickel stuff. And that that'll depends does this out just with the personnel on offense, usually dictates to them. We do have another call on the line. It is from Spencer from Cincinnati Spencer. Thanks for calling in. I know you tried to call him last week. And we missed you. What's on your mind tonight, buddy? On. I hope my question is outdated. I don't think it's been directly putts on. But I was very high of that killer higher on the change of the Bengals were having some concerns day. On the show. Ship or on for ending minded other people around the himself friends won't be more inclined to agree with him. And then you deal on. That is a great question. John your thoughts on that. I've got a couple of thoughts of my own on it. But your your thoughts on what Spencer's asking with Zack Taylor's staff of cronies. I guess for Carney's is like the perfect as it is. But I think it's a double edged sword Mun like you had that aspect of it were euro first time head coach in your with a bunch of guys that you work with in the past presumably, you're establishing workplace where you know, you're in the thority which challenge that much deserves running guys trust in hopefully there, you know. The they're going to be in a position where not only does he trust these guys they tell them the truth and to in order for him to make the most decision. He's gonna rely on on the love their input. But also the same time when you are the young for time head coach, then you're going to be one surrounded with guys too comfortable that you know, are going to buy into what what you're building as far as culture goes as far as the system goes. So I think kind of works both ways, and you kind of Kevin take the good with the bad me personally. There was some hires. That was really questioning is this guy. Just hiring him not based on his qualifications. But just with pass associations with them. Turn the guy six out to me most with that. But at the same time, I think there are some benefits with it. And is kinda just something that you got the you got to take with the bat against. Yeah. And it I mean that's kind of where I'm at with it as well. I I I see it and I go well young coach first time head coach. He's gotta have guys that he trusts in the room. He's gotta have guys who he thinks number one will be on the same page as him number. Number two, run the systems that he is familiar with and he wants to run and number three just having guys in the room that will give it to him real about certain players certain situations. Now, I spent brings out what what happens is when you when you bring in a bunch of guys to work under you that you're comfortable with there. There's the possibility of. Yeah. I mean, you're going to run stuff that everybody's on the same page in you know, it should be a potentially a well oiled machine, but you run the risk of just hiring. And I think this is maybe we're Spencer's coming from you run the risk. Maybe hiring a bunch of. Yes men. And I I don't that would not be good. And I not to say that everybody needs to call out. Zack Taylor anything like that. But if he's just kind of saying these things in dictating these certain things, obviously, he's the boss, but you know, I I'd like to think that he's hired guys to not really push back. But at least give there. Two cents and make it a valuable piece of two cents in you know, the other facet Spencer that I think goes into this all is the the carousel of the defensive coordinator situation. I think that has kind of turned a lot of people. Say turned a lot of people off. But it is the the positivity a lot of that has kind of dissipated when you're now six or seven coordinators down the pecking order at least, according to reports. Yeah. Well, thanks for calling again this week Spencer appreciated make make it a habit, buddy. Tippety? Yeah. Take it easy. Spencer paulhamus on the on the phone line there. We had another question from good friend Carlos Andrei. Oh, boy, I saw this one. Say it's a good one. But it's. Trading for Josh Rosen. I mean. There's talk that the cardinals are going to be hammered with Kylie Murray because of cliff Kingsbury and Steve time that GM they really liked Cuyler Murray. And even though you know, this is a new coach and even though last year's regime brought in Rosen. You know, they made move on. And try dangle Rosen out there for trade Rosen did not have a good rookie season. But that team was awful hot garbage. Yeah. So I guess your thoughts. Let's start with this. Your your thoughts last year on Rosen as a pro 'cause I didn't you were with us last year when we were kind of talking about some of these guys. So I'd like to get your thoughts on Rosen's professional outlook based on tape. You watch to him in things you saw about I didn't watch ton of Arizona. But I do know that the love line was nothing to write home, a balance hard to judge accorded a young quarterback of a first year starter think he started thirteen came in week three when Sam Bradford is playing awful predictably in the offensive line had no one besides maybe Mason, Colin center known at attack on a guard that was that was worth starting feels like starting for Alex Redmond's in Bobby hearts, soap he was having trouble. Not now like. Finding time to find guys open. But all really had a receiver was later this year in Christian Kirk kind stepped up towards later good chemistry with him. But overall like by far the worst off instantly that had no idea how to use David Johnson for mostly which is basically impossible when you think about it. But yeah, like rookie years for quarterbacks in large part or just they just kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things only very rarely rookie. Quarterback's like, bacon me. Russell wilson. Lighted up in the first year nets. Usually when the surrounded by great talent. Upfront offense line have great options on the outside and have a Nafis according to scheme, the kind works with them, but Rosen the prospect, and I I'm not exactly comfortable doing this. Because I don't like when people do this. When you compare Rosen top guys in this draft class. I I wouldn't say that he would be anywhere different in terms of in terms of rankings because he was a top three guy last year. Clearly, maybe top two that's where he would be it became this you're competing with Haskins Murray. So you're thinking you're getting. Like top quarterback prospect for the price of not even trading up for one which is what usually have to do. So in theory. I think I either having Rosen behind veteran like Dalton or putting him in you know, immediately. She'll still try to get his feet. Wet would be a pretty decent situation. Because he does have good receivers at least has more pieces on the offense line than you had to work with in Zona. Hopefully, you know, Zach how implements a a friendly system to ever is is quarterbacking his full roster and twenty nineteen, but like in general, I don't think they -sarily do considerably better considerably worse with Rosen compared to any doll and even more stylish. But there's raw town to like about Rosen. And I think he's a smart intelligent kid. That's going to be able to command a locker room, but when when you kinda hits his stride, and that's not happening yet. But it's it's a long term investment for Vangla's or any team to possibly make this happen. I wouldn't be completely against it at I do see the the flaws in it all but I like Rosanna a quarterback. Prospect and the Bengals do need to find someone eventually take over for all nothing. This is not the worst avenue to take. Yeah. I have a follow up question for you. But just real quick. My take on myself quite a bit of UCLA. The kid makes throws that are just. Wow, a beautiful. And there's times where you're like do you even care even care that you're on the field right now? And I think. You know, I think part of that was UCLA kind of earlier in his career was a decent team in towards the end. It really kinda they started to kind of fall apartment. He kinda I had some injury issues in that sort of thing, but he's got an arm. He can make a lot of a lot of throws. It's it's a consistency issue for me with with him. And. I, you know, I think I think the upside is is definitely there. And I think you know, we talked about with John Ross situation. It's the you know, you would then be potentially buying low on a guy if. The cardinals decided to go that route the follow question. I wanna have for you on. This is basically I mean, obviously the Bengals. Trading for Rosen is something that would be interesting. But obviously, there's there's a value aspect in it. There's dependent issue on you know, what would they be giving up? So what's what's kind of the maximum type of capital? You would be willing to give up probably this year for guy like Rosen right now, it's a lot of Arizona one eleventh role pick, and like I would probably start with like like like a couple days who picks because of what we saw from Rosen in this kind of like playing the whole negoti anything hopefully keeping their. But if it comes if I felt really comes to the pig thing. Okay. What what am I giving up? If I keep that pig. I get maybe a top to tackle in this draft class may beginning debit wiser best linebacker in this draft. But honestly, you know, fans have been saying that this team is in a position to win now. And it. To me personally. I it has to be if they want to go further than where they have in the past seventy years, they probably need someone a little more talented than any. I think Rosen can become that. And the that you have that quarterback in place in your system, the better. And honestly like, I if it costs overall pick, then that's I would strongly consider that might actually pulling the trigger. If it's if it's liberal pinky the rest of their picks and keep their future picks. Maybe if they have to give up like a future third or something like that. Maybe conditional. Yeah. Yes. I'm like that depending on how it happens, but like quarterback is the name of the game. And he's he still has four years left on his rookie deal for affordability that you can do you do more things with that cap space that you say dome or you keep doling, and you have, you know, dawn plan ahead of Rosen, and we just had that kind of bridge transitional thing because rose still twenty two years old. He's not completely ready to take over league by any means. So you know that liberal bed Levin overall. With definitely be on the table for me. If in coming to it I would heavily because it's a little high for me. But I mean that might be what it takes. So for what is what was looked at as premier quarterback in last year's draft. Last question will get out of here. John. It's a quick wine. I didn't get the name of this person. But it was a text coming in most important game on this on the schedule next season in why only God it's like February like wheeling. These teams are gonna look like, but. See they play the NFC west. They play the Rams in London. That's that's pretty damn. That's pretty important a tide less time in London to the Redskins fakes NFL, by the way. I was I was planning on going into that game. That's right. 'cause he went to the charges game less. Right. Did. Yeah. But the call seem I guess is a better place in the stuff up center. That's I think that's pretty important for for Taylor's new squad to go up against his old squad in I if you call primetime kicks off at six thirty year local time in London. But yeah, I think that's that's on the that's on the document portent Stobbe. See the Steelers games are always important NFC west to division AFC. They play the south maybe the east. I wanna say it's the east, but I'm not hundreds sure if obviously the patriots because like like they played the chiefs last year in the chiefs are going to be like the next best thing in the AFC. They failed that test miserably. So this any gaming the patriots important to kind of broader of where you are compared to the lean your conference. So that like those those two super teams in your biggest rival. So those are probably the four games ESE. You've got looks like NFC west and if east. Yeah. Two. Yeah. We. To me. I mean, obviously, the division games are always most important to me for the first time in Longtown. I'm gonna say the Browns game one of the breast or be the most important. I think the Steelers will be on the down swing based on all of the drama that they have. No that doesn't mean. They're gonna be terrible just think that they will not be a ten win team. Like usually are everybody in their mother is building up the Browns after what they did last year and Baker Mayfield. I would love to see them fall from grace. I saw a reporter today on Twitter saying he was gonna tell Freddie kitchens that he had the expectation that the Browns we're going to go twelve four next year. So to me, I think a lot of a lot of people are going this way. I think I don't think there's a lot of people who are long-term believers in the mar Jackson. I don't I don't think a lot of people are high on the Steelers based on all of the attrition. That's probably going to take place in some of their offense skill positions in the Bengals are in a major state of transition themselves. So they a lot of people think this is the Browns division to lose. So I on the enough. I'm going to say, whatever when you wanna pick. The Browns game is probably going to be very important next year. You know, it's it's division. It's conference all that stuff. So that's that's where I'd go. Thanks for all the questions tonight guys on a variety of different ways. We text we had tweets we had calls all that kind of stuff. We probably had some more on the live YouTube chat with is running up against time. So I apologize could get to those. But if you ever want to send those to us hit us up via Twitter or anything like that. You know, you send those are way. We'll try and get to those either on the show or indoor our mailbag feature that we do since jungle dot com. So appreciate all the feedback and everything you can get this show is I've said a couple of times on I tunes on Stitcher. Google play can get it on megaphone. It's also on YouTube and since he juggled com. We appreciate the sport. Any final thoughts before we get outta here. John Sharon, the John Ross. Rumors will not be the I live here. Just remember that. Everyone's everyone lies in their all better than you. Got. You got a you got a a guess as to what another one might be. We'll probably hear some free Tennessee stuff. We aren't we've already been been alled with perfect news from our buddy, Andy Furman. But I think that's probably never double. And we might hear that as free to see kind of approaches. But right now, they have like what fifty two mil they can add six million perfect. He's sucks. It seems like a no brainer. That would probably my producer. What happens to that? But other than that, maybe some other surprise cuts from some research, Dr when maybe like Jordan Willis, you know, sound like that I don't know because this is a whole new coaching staff, and they have a whole new opinions on players that they bring in. So it's gonna be interesting. What what what pops up and what's true? And what's not? Yeah. Man. Jordan Willett house guy. I was excited about he is just not done much of anything Schnell since two angles. Unfortunately, I don't really have too much of a final thought. But just letting our folks know our listeners know that will probably for the live broadcast will probably be in in my to John shared about this for his flexibility over the past couple of weeks. We probably will be recording Tuesday night next week, which actually timing wise is pretty well because it's closer to the conclusion of the combine. So we're gonna try and get maybe a guest or something like that on that was either. There or connected to the Bengals in some respect and talk to them about that. So. The show probably will be recorded Tuesday. I think I think what we greet upon. So we're just heads up on that. It'll in the stuff will show up on the feta little bit earlier. But we appreciate sport and subscribe to our channels and. Keep in touch with us. We to hear from guts grip shells. Thanks for everything takes John. Appreciate while. You're but. Right around the corner where we're talking about here here seal. So we'll get started here. This. He's going to be a lot. Thanks for listening. We'll see. My name is Spencer hall by name is Jason Kurt. My name is Ryan nanny, we combined. We form the shut full stran- keep telling you. This forecast is technically college football podcast. But it's also a show about care disaster regional grocery stores. We live Tennessee Batman homeowners associations bears in video games. Pittsburgh Batman, the hell of being trapped group, text unreliable legal advice. I mean, there's also some actual football discussion about coaches, having us contracts coaches making terrible decisions or coaches, saying really stupid things or the NC double A's saying released. Yeah, there's lots of stupid things in this big dome. Beautiful sport like time Arkansas decided to use captured feral hog as a mascot, and it escaped and it wound up killing seven rattlesnakes a pig and Kylie sometimes we talk about. Okay village. If you wanna take college football exactly seriously as it deserves to be taken come find us on apple podcasts Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts like this one this focused. It's not voltron unless it is Cam. Why?

Bengals trae John Ross John Ross Zack Taylor Marvin Lewis Twitter YouTube football Taylor Tobin NFL Tyler Boyd defensive coordinator Cincinnati Bengals Cincinnati Indianapolis Google Stitcher John Sharon Miami Steelers
OITNB Episode 89: "Ferrari's vs Civics"

Cincy Jungle

1:07:33 hr | 10 months ago

OITNB Episode 89: "Ferrari's vs Civics"

"She. Welcome to the Orange is the new black podcast I'm your host as Boogie. My co-host Zim who they say, what's up hello world doing live QNA tonight. How's everybody feeling how you feeling as you got anything that you been sitting there distilling and brewing that you just WanNa leave out the show on tell everybody with the Yeah. I think I think before and you guys noticed. But before we always come on museum have conversations even after we end this strange, we always have conversations we saw each other all the time. Whether it's on the phone or not but we were just talking about certain things in in certain concepts and we were talking about Joe Borough and I was Kinda talking about. You guys comment is let me know what your thoughts were but I watched the interview with Joe Borough today sick away a couple of things. But the most notable thing that I took away is that it seemed like Joe Borough correct me if I'm wrong in the comments like I said, this is just the way that it is just my point of view. It seemed like he was Kinda subliminally Colin out certain players that may not practice hard. Me Not play are in basically said if you're not gonNA play hard then you know you're not gonNA play. So we were trying to wonder who exactly that that could be directed to but we were talking about this concept that Zam go ahead and introduce you guys. Also the chat is open for any QNA's. So be able to seems like I am jail agrees it saying, yes. Saying to me that that Joe Borough somebody out but we are doing a Q. and A.. So if you guys do want us to answer some questions definitely Missouri's as comments. As I'm talking to ace if you've got some that you just want me to go back on I'm just let me know which ones and I'm GonNa, go back on it but I appreciate everybody for checking us out the night. Please make sure you subscribe to ACE's channel is new stripe city currently right now we're doing this for mind tonight this is who days of you're listening to this on a podcast whether it be spotify whether it'd be apple please check us out on Youtube as well. But the concept that I was saying. I don't know I was just driving in my car to day. And I was driving today. My wife owns a BMW. She's had been. She's had a lot of good cars. I've had a lot of expensive cars to when I go to the shop to go get maintenance and different things like that. On the car when I bought these cars understood that I will have a lot of maintenance with. And because it I don't really aspire to have like a fancy car or really really nice car. I haven't really nice pickup truck now like and I have another back of car that I think is really nice. It gives me where I wanna go but I always revert back to like when my younger days when I did want really really fast cars when when I talk about sports. But when I got those cars, I knew that the what comes with the is A. Higher. You know amount of money spent on a monthly basis on a monthly basis, but on top of that. I have to spend money on a maintenance to make sure everything's running on all cylinders and some people are ready for that, and some people aren't when my wife goes to the thing she's blown away when they give her like a invoice for one hundred dollars for something breaks me a bought that car. Maintenance on whatever I did when I had a MAZIA whatever I'm not saying it's the to whatever I'm just giving you inside my mind when I bought that car I understood that there's GonNa be some things that I gotta do that other people might not like or things that I might not like and that's the price tag that comes with getting stuff like that to me I bring this. Up because John Ross represents that it's collectively I think because perceptions and because of maintenance is I have a theory that bengals fans don't like fast cars and when I say fast cars, I'm talking about on the football field and I'm not talking about John Rossi Spe- I'm just saying ultimately, they don't want the maintenance with it players like, oh, bj or Antonio, Tony Brown. If I'm the coach or. In this instance I made the tweet I said I hope. Tony O'Brien doesn't go to the Ravens. A gas told me like crazy. He's going to go to the Ravens and he's GonNa. Be Trashed. I said, are you serious? This dude is a hall of Famer and he's he's amazing. But the average fan probably thinks that because when you go down her Danna is so much stuff so much size stuff and most football fans just went. To play football, they don't WanNa hear about no off the stuff off the fills the no maintenance don't want to hear about no hey cases anything like that for me if I have good coach and in place if I have people around him that we're going to work with them the same way people work with mice. You know like y'all talking to them who they now like. Me Say years ago and I you know saying nobody would have ever thought abby right here. Right but people were around me. That was smart enough to point me in the right direction. To show me the proper way to carry guns. Instead of you know, say the way that I might have done it before whatever you know what I'm saying, all these different factors that people get in trouble for if you could put these players around the right people, then it will work. No AUBERGE wouldn't work here in no brown work because they don't have the stability in any other things like that to work around it, and also the front office doesn't want. Ferraris. Because they don't want the maintenance, they don't want the PR, they don't want nothing with it. There are coaches in place like Mike Tomlin of the world and Harbaugh's at that I. Think can handle any type of personality and that's why I. Think Tonio browns still go at Q. I don't want him to go to Ravens I. Think the average Fan Looks Obgyn says I, mean he's a crybaby. No, he's passionate. He's me on the field like the crazy outtakes that you are C- from me on a week to week basis imaginative ob. Jay. was in front of a computer be screaming and yell at me cursing people. Doing whatever that's all it is is just a whole bunch of a whole bunch of passion but the average fan from Ohio doesn't have aspirations a driving Ferrari. That's just. That's the easy way to put it. So I always get back four. You gotTa build up stability and you gotta whatever the difference is. I'm smart enough to know that I'm not the smartest person in the room sometimes And I'm not I don't know everything. So I'm willing to take your ideas and they say you're at is I'm willing to take your ideas. If you say, we need some big boys up front to make sure that my garage straight to make sure that my Ferrari don't scratch if you've got a mechanic over there that know how to work on this. So whatever then say bring 'em on some people sometimes are in the way and they don't allow that to happen. Sometimes players get in bad situations where they don't have good mechanics around them. If you put good mechanics around some of these cars they work. As a green two weeks ago was a Ferrari that's been running crazy for six seven years, and he finally has some blown tires and stuff for two years. Everybody turned on him. They went the maintenance. The same thing happened to Chad Ocho Cinco at the end of his tenure they didn't want the maintenance is to me it's a bengals thing. I could be wrong. But that's what happens when you have these high high. High. Volume players that require more attention and have a lot more passion earn inexpressive that way you gotTa Ferrari and his guy named Joe Borough will and I'm GonNa. Tell you right now like ace was telling me beforehand that where he said that press conference today better get used to it because Andy Dalton was a Honda civic for what now years right? He was a Honda Civic and that's cool for a lot of people. That's why we clashed with lovers. That's why I class loves I don't even know anything I dunno models about know how to civics Year's a good year. I never had a Honda Civic and that's not to say that that's not a good car is reliable. It can run a you know it's going to pull on time and anybody could work on it. You know what I mean, but I don't want you know. But that's why it takes a garage to make sure that you got good mechanics all over because the big boys that maybe Volkswagen's at a world maybe I don't connect with them, but I got a bunch of Willie Anderson's that could connect with them. Big Boys over there I got a bunch of TJ, who's Missouri's that can you know? Delivered a message over there you know to these different things sometimes, teams going get oh bj's like the giants and that are working on a Honda dealership and had a Ferrari sitting at a time and now know what to do with it. They ain't got no mechanics that work on it, and then you get them in these blown up situations everybody's looking at him like he's crazy but he didn't have the crew it same thing he goes to the browns. Who's this quarterback now like him that right crew and that's the. Thing. So people got to decide what do you want? What are you trying to drive because right now John Ross whether you like Ferraris and that is sitting in a garage and he's you know what people tell me online and you were saying, why do people ace was telling me what why do why do people hate John Ross so much I don't think they hate zero so much. They just don't want the maintenance of a Ferrari like saying I'm willing to go all out if I get three games, I'm a run I'm a run the shit out the pedals of a master gas I'm go past the cops and you can't stop me for three or four games and and I'll live with that because I, know I got backups and Michael Thomason and Ericsson and stuff like that. But the average Ohio citizen is not getting that concept they people pose the question to me they say well I mean we I mean he might get hurt. I mean you know every time, but he is though and he's sitting in a garage in for you to hit the pedal and turn the key you get value by him sitting there he's just getting older and shelf, and you look silly by trying to try to tell us that he hasn't had anything. Thank you for letting me say all of that as that was basically my concept and I don't know I'm not I'm not perfect. I might be off on some of this stuff. This is not about who's better or WHO's not but that's the whole concept of you know what I was saying. I WANNA drive Ferraris I want to hang out with Volkswagen's I WANNA hang out with everybody but I do you think about bengals sports you think about Ohio sports they haven't really had that many Ferraris in the teams that gets to the finish line like when the eagles alert. Asleep. The super bowl run into eagles had because their coach was a Ferrari and he was mashing the gas all every time they. Somebody hit the way while he was on it every time they needed to trae he was on it he ran ten deficient line the saying I don't know if you've seen Doug Peterson book but mazing read I forgot the name of it, but it's amazing but it's just going no limit to get what you want and living with the consequences of it. Later, some people love John Ross book because it didn't work out they fell out favour with it I still love that pick. I think it was one of the greatest in Cincinnati sports history just because of the concept like we will draft. We. But. If you going to run them, then it's a stupid stupid concept and you'll fall flat on your face. Year I think for me I I agree clearly I think to me you guys know that I'm not a huge guy I. I was cool with them taking him and stuff like that. When I wasn't cool with though is you look at any kind of situation like I think when we had Jackson here he talked about dairies Haywar Bay Right Darius Hayward. Bay was very similar. Ross was a guy that was fast was picked over Michael Crabtree of shot the world and like he say before he got there, it was pretty much everyone had given up on. Areas Haywar Bay right and when he got there, he was able to pull a solid season at him and to me I think you've seen that whether it's John Ross whether it's Darius Haywar Bay whether it's Bouchard Perriman with the Ravens like we've seen this story before. But when you look at a functioning enfranchise when you give that investment when you take that Nice pick, you have to play him in some capacity like when it's to the point that you're throwing and Mike Thomas. Alex Ericsson and you're only giving him once net even if you don't want to have Russell. You didn't have a preseason. You literally have nothing own film really to show them for Rossa's talent this year. So even if you wanted to trade him, you can't do that. To be in a gang the she were up twenty one zero. In another team is coming back and you just had absolutely no place Ross but you had trick plays in there. Everybody knows even if you would just put Ross for end around the flea fixer something. It will make sense it will put something on tape like you could have used him to have the arrogance to not play him not only him. Geno Atkins Carlos Dunlap to sit these guys completely on the bench to me says that you do not want to win and to me I. Think one analogy that that this always comes back to me like when I stay in college at Fam-, I was roommates with a guy that was fan who's a Philadelphia Eagles Fan right at the time. He was coming off of the Donovan mcnabb era they were going to the Mike Vick era. They were kind in the middle of that Mike Vick era right before they fell off. And I'm so glad that Zim brought up the Peterson and the first thing he said to me in this was like twenty eleven I was high right this was like right with Aj era and stuff like that a you know what he said to me he said the standards in. Cincinnati are so low that you guys are happy with simply making the playoffs who was like the Standards Philly we don't like that we're used to NFC like if you don't go to the NFC championship, we're going to get you out of there and that was when they were getting ready to get Andy. Reed editor and all of that, and at the Tom I just wanted to be like, yeah. Whatever do like we've been through whatever like we're we're accelerating because I grew up in an era where Marvin Lewis going eight eight that was like the Super Bowl. So insists he was right but I felt like are we got a new thing Mike Zimmer is defense we got something that we can build on and the funny thing is the eagles started to be bad. So when the eagles were bad I was like ripping hemlock Oughta Eagles are trashed like y'all fell off and this and that. And then you get to twenty fifteen the bingo still can't pull it off the best year that we've ever had. We still can't pull it off. We still can't win a playoff game and then look what happens. The team falls apart the Philadelphia Eagles go out revamped their team go through the chip Kelly earlier going get Doug Peterson and the next thing you know they're in the Super Bowl and they win a super bowl in the Cincinnati bengals are standing in the same Position and let's six to me to this day like we have to raise expectations I'm not trying to start a civil war within the bengals community talking about Zach, in this and that, but you have to you have to raise your expectations if you weren't satisfied with Marvin. Lewis. I'm not trying to say that you can't be understanding and give Zach a chance on the same program. We gave a chance when we want to games last season, we gave Zach a pass on that. We gave him a pass on all of that. We said, Okay Give Zach a chance to get his players in his young quarterback will see what happens. That is what's happening right now we're saying to happen and we're not getting the results that we need and the standard within the city is as natty has to raise to the point where you can't be afraid to go back to the nineties and stuff like that and just be satisfied with hamburger helper. Instead of going again, you're Lehman young and becoming a successful franchise and you have to build that culture and it has to be about winning and you can't be afraid to push the button on the canceled exact. Taylor. Era In going get somebody else you can't be mad to go and. Get a Ferrari like said as a head coach yet, Zach Taylor is going to be a young innovator. My let's cheap. That's a great value purchase that you make. Right that's not that's not public. That's not target. If you WANNA call target fancy like that's not that if you really WanNa do that you got to pay for that coach. If you want a bill belichick level if you want anyone that's just an up and coming coach, let's just say cow Shanahan, if Shanahan was out on the market, you're going to have to pay him like you're not going to be able to get away with. Not Spending Money, at that position and coaching in the quarterback position as Emma's pointed to in having those weapons like John Ross guys, they can only do those things in the NFL. There's a limited number of them you have to pay for it. Yeah I mean one hundred percent agree i. Just tried to. That when people the reason are brought this out is because. There are proven formulas where we have for home-grown talent like I'm still a believer in a lot of people turn. Duke Sober Duke Tobin as an example of homegrown. People within the system that. I think he's overachieved sometimes sometime he hasn't. You could go either way but that's the bengals type of concept like they're willing to. They're willing to die with just playing paying. A. Lesser Amount in hoping that they can walk off with. Results with with not paying the price for it. Paying the price for stuff sometimes isn't just money paying the price with stuff is giving up somewhat of ownership like so so some of the people that you were talking about like really really bright minds like Shanahan. He will come in and probably removed Tober. He would also want stock into like this is two thousand and twenty young minds are coming in and say I want I want stock in this program as well I wanNA know that even when I'm gone I'm still going to see a return of this like this is advanced football. Like days have taken a step up coaches don't want to just be a coach like they wanna have other different hands than the marketing. that. They WanNa have different things that they could do in the bengals aren't going to relinquish any of that. So who do you go get a young dude that doesn't really have any aspirations of any of that stuff I'm talking about he's just happy held that the NFL coach and put in that position and it's not his fault and I think he probably could be a good coach. He just wasn't ready at that he came in and he's still not ready. We see that every week. But. They gotta get Outta that people that are watching this in the you're sitting there right now you're thinking about Cincinnati sports and I raised that question my the only the only Ferrari that we had was Ocho Cinco. But at the end of it, I mean, you had other players that are really really good. But munos is is in a Ferrari. He's not he's not gonNA come out demand anything. He's not gonNA have any eggs or anything OCHO, CINCO is a Ferrari and to this day there's some people that I know that'd be like I couldn't stand the guy. You know they were like man every why don't you shut up interest play I'm like because everybody is not made up land that like some people got a little you know whatever. But that was the only person but they've never gone out and gone to go get a Ferrari either. So this off season when they went out and got the DJ readers of the world and different things like that I'm like cool but they still don't have the right mechanics and you still gotta have these these guys that you're paying top dollar for so that the whole garage is good. So we all work together on different is my concept. But. When you do get a Ferrari or you do get don Ross or somebody of that thing, you can't just turn your back on it when it doesn't go your way and you can't just. Just push it off like Oh, well, he always gets injured. So if you get your car the shot that it was in a car, your car was in a shot last week. Now you got your car back not driving your car this week because think you might get because you think it might break now now I'm GonNa, go run that same car. Got Me Seven touchdowns or thirty receptions that saying car got me five hundred yards in like six seven games would would an APP staff like? So. Dental like that, and they don't like this concept of like. People will make mistakes are going to be so boomer bus players. That's why you get AJ greer's it. World's who are hybrids that can balance out that locker room. You go get other guys like. Tyler boy or or T- Higgins maybe not as outspoken and you do those things to balance it out so that maybe John Ross isn't having a maybe he isn't having a good game. Do you say okay well, this might not be it for you John, but I still want you evolve watch what they're doing give them a target later on in a game. See come back to you fumble is John we come back to you next game right now you know what I'm saying but when you make an investment that high you can't give up on it because it sets your franchise back in when people. Don't like the Ross Bec- as much as I don't like the billy price bic is sense my franchise back when you don't play them or you don't have a role form. I've seen the run out a big jumbo pack is what brought Fridge Johnson infant to snaps it they could do that for billy price. I'd be just happy even though yeah, I think that I don't like billy. This these are all vestments for all of us. So you shitting on a player or saying that you, he's a washer whatever it doesn't do anything to advance US and that's That's the whole thing I wanna do to. Well, let's get off of that. You gotta you gotta come with something better. Do you have any? Do you have any thoughts on this past we? blowing twenty one point. That Zach. Taylor. Come into Cleveland and talk about what do you have anything that you think maybe translate. Or do you. Do you have any thoughts. I, think my thoughts are. is going to be hard for them to go into Cleveland and get a win based off of what I've seen from the injury report. I think a lot of people are really it when you were watching again at least when I was watching the game, the real turning point started when Joe Mixing went out of the game because they had perfect mix between A. J. Green talent boy t higgins and Joe Mixon. Joe makes them was getting yards against that coast defense, which is not easy like a lot of people average like two three yards per carry. So when Joe got a going, it really got the offense going in also paid attention to the inside the jungle podcast. This weekend ahead Jeff hops on and I, think that he says something that really stuck with me is that they have gotten away from running the ball. Look at the common denominator between the past two years. They have not run the ball. It wasn't until they got joe mixing going last year that they actually one game until we got jokes enrolling this year, it was in that game that we won, and I'm not a big guy that talks about correlations. But this is still the AFC north. I think Zach Taylor thinks he's in the NFC west or something like that, and this is the AFC north. You have to be able to run the ball and this team does not have an identity. This is. Two years. This is the second year in his crazy because I. have friends that were Zach. Taylor and they said all of these things last year and I was like Nah give him a Chaz valley we have to see play up with there were saying is true i. have to admit it. This team does not have an offensive identity. You can't tell whether they want to run the ball. You can't tell whether they want to pass the ball. It seems like that wants to pass the ball as much as possible and when you have a player like Joe. that. She just handed his deal to makes absolutely no sense not have him involved in the run game and if you're gonNA pass it, it needs to be something like the saints do but Kamara but you don't do that. So from Zach Taylor, I like to see I like seeing a lot of the creativity and stuff that he did but with Joe Mixon out of this game potentially which I personally think at this point I think he's added as damn 'cause he's really low key been hurt the last two games and if if William Jackson. Concussion Protocol and he's out this game and you're going against Oda Beckham Junior Jarvis Landry Hopkins I'm Kinda worried about that like seeing the players that I saw on the injury report for this week with the injuries that they have with the turmoil in the locker room that they have on that worries me like unless Baker. Mayfield. Comes out and just shits the bed and like throws three picks. I'm Kinda work. That bring a kid making making braincase. But for us and I haven't no mixing like Geos my guy I love Gio. He's one of my favorite players we saw last week Giovanni Bernardo is not Joe Mixing like you're not GonNa get an production from him. So like not having Joe Mixing, if I'm a seeing if under browns and I'm not trying to give them any plans or anything like that, like I would load the box because you're not gonna you're not well I wouldn't box I'm sorry I. Didn't even play to run like I wouldn't play it at all like for real. Honestly because it's not all being run game, I don't think they had a you're saying if you're if you're the BROWNS IF I'm Cleveland this light y'all have no run game without Joe Mixing like there's no threat biting on play actions. I'm not. I'm not doing any of that I'm focused on stopping your receivers and I'm probably going to try to blitz blitz some people as well. AT THEIR HAIR UTAH. Just now I almost feel like. You're at the Cross Rosie's. I'm definitely at the Cross rose I'm I'm just being real bro, like if we don't have like to me. Joe Mixing is the key to this offense. I think we've seen that like you have to get Joe Mixing going when I looked at that coach game when we were up twenty, one, zero. If you notice Joe Mixon was in a gang as soon as Joe Mixing goes out the game as soon as he gets that injury and they GIO and they're the run game is not existent, they start passing they. Start overthinking theirselves, and then the offense just loses steam because they couldn't balance that defense are to pass offense the run and when they had it, it was beautiful like it. They took off go up twenty four zero and it's like and I was talking to my cousin 'cause he was watching the news like Bro as soon as mixing and went out at a game, it's like everything stopped. It was like. The defense automatically could just concentrate on our receivers and stuff like that in play like that. The coach had never seen a run game like that like even when they went against Cleveland the last week, which Cleveland was supposed to have a number one like Joe Mixon was doing stuff against that defense. They had never seen like and you got to remember the year last season Joe Mixon toward him up Joe Mixing was about the charitable them again until he got hurt and when he left that game and came back even when he came back, it wasn't just saying it was like the energy was gone so if we're going to. Get a damn good I and somebody was talking to me of I I went back and watched it that boy. Do you remember this play where boy was he would have had a first down, but he backed up and then we did. Yeah was that was a really big play well, also the other thing I was saying the key component of US losing that game and I don't want to harp on that game too much but. It was just the. Use as that one in the past. I think they really didn't WanNa rent because they had a conscious effort. Excuse me they had a conscious effort of running the football in the first half and when I wash that, say they were running the football really way better than what I thought. We just had a short fill had a couple of things going in the wrong way, but had we been able to establish the running game in the SAGA HALF I? Think a lot of stuff wouldn't happen and I think you would eliminate that at the very least the opportunity of Philip rivers and that was the the one thing that I thought was the biggest problem like a game. But when I was asking you where you at the crossroads. The crossroads is where we were last year. We got to this point where we stopped wanting. Them to win football you almost like if Joe Mixing. Play. William Jackson doesn't play. You're pretty much conceding that you think that it's a ill in my I'm just always just been real like I don't WanNa. Lose like in the endymion situation I wanted to lose because I wanted a new quarterback right now we've got Joe. So right now I don't WanNa do I don't i. don't see us. I don't see us having a worse record in the jets. The jets are GonNa Own Sixteen let's be real the giants. They're probably GONNA finish before us the Jaguars. So I'm not really benefiting from a top five picks. So No, I don't want to lose but if I see that. You said what? You don't want to know what to lose, but if I'm looking at going into this game without Joe Mixon and Williams excellent author. Yeah we'RE GONNA lose like we saw what Leshan Sims did last week we saw with Darius Phillips did you got older Beckham Junior? You Got Jarvis Landry like Odell Beckham Junior, last game. I, think did that against William Jackson the third so I may if you put Phillips on owed Lbj I, mean. Is just like a saying like our defense is GonNa Start Lamar Jackson is just as a wide receiver. So for me like I can't definitively say without a our best potentially best offensive player outside of borough that we're gonNA come in in beat the browns as a four into team. The has a coaching staff that is more competent than ours that we don't have to major stars on Lineup I. Don't know I can't defend it. Ran A baby brown. All right. Let me rephrase the question if we if we play the steelers day, would you say that we're GonNa be the steelers? and. But Is the question. This is what I'm asking you. I. I'm not actually are you are do you think that we're going to beat the browns I don't WanNa. I don't Wanna I wanNA keep losing I WANNA win. All right. That's the main thing because I'm GonNa tell you this. You say there's a lot of people and is the reason why actually the question somebody might have said earlier on a jet. If you want the right if everybody wants this Guy Penn state pence as so well or what evidence do? Tackle you gotta get in the top five people that are posting it. Somebody just tagged me in a photo with Photoshop. Let Him in a Bengals Jersey, that's not happening in anybody wants him go tell your friends you gotta only win two or three games this year. That's the only way you're going to get because he's the best tackle. Right so that's what I'm asking you are you at the crossroads where because if you win five games or so you going to be picking like twelve thirteen, it's it's it's a rough. It's a rough place be A. so at some point, you gotta take that like we did we got cut across ours. We got to November of last year where we weren't take moat. Yeah I. Don't you gotTa say are you? Do you want to say. Or take. From from net sampling from from my standpoint on that was. You're going after a quarterback premium position, right? Like maybe if you needed a cornerback, maybe you needed as rusher maybe needed a quarterback like instant impact guys that are gonNA change your teen not saying that Penny couldn't change but there's not penny doesn't swing the pendulum for me whereas we could try to go out and sign a free agent tackle that's already established. But we. Have mole yet but say somebody start showing you a whole bunch of stuff and he's ruining people and let's say. Quitting, Nelson of left tackles. They would you jump in tank? Nah I mean I just don't think that you like you're looking at ten teams right now nine hundred, ten teams had one win like it's bad around the NFL like you're not getting a top five. If you win five games I think that you're probably like you said twelve or something like that. There's a lot of bad teams Atlanta. The giants Jacksonville Minnesota like you know it's not number nine drafted another job. And it's like whoever gets in that top like even if the jets get number one, right which I think they will I think they're going to own a sixteen. They're probably GONNA pick another quarterback. They'RE GONNA go out and get the care from Clemson and stuff like that like penny to me like, yes, he may be great and this and that we don't we. Don't know for sure if he is like if there's a guy out there like let's just say for lack of a better gear example I'm not saying that this is real but let's just say hypothetically, Tyron Smith is out there as a free agent. Are you really gonNA try to pick penny instead of taking him I'm taking Tyron Smith because he's a pro tackle. And I know what? I'm going to get like you you can't really guarantee that alignment is just GonNa be off the rip like you might get lucky here and there. But look at the look at the giants right now. Then they pick Andrew Thomas then they pick him in this out five. He hasn't play like within the bucks went out our brows went out. And got their guy, and he's playing better to him. So to me is a crap shoot for alignment Nah I'm not willing to to just see to season I wanna see some wins the only thing that would make me say if we lose, we get rid of that Taylor and we're going to bring in a good coach maybe but Nah I wanNA actually. Yeah. That's the scary part about winning was sale is I think that the the Honda Civics? In lovers of the world that will be enough for them. That's the scary part for me is that they will win this game and they will see stability in it and say, you know what here's carryover for that and I'll be like now I've seen like we all know if you stay here right now watching this show. In. The back of your mind that Taylor is is going to wake up tomorrow the day after that and be some jeans level coach and he's shown us how he has not already in. No happen that way. I'm here to tell you he might be a great coordinator for the. Whatever he might be a better. Hey, it goes down the line right. But as a right now in this very moment these next couple of years, he will not win you ring and we all know that. So you gotta identify are you just trying to go to play offs? Are you? Are you trying to get a ring because I do think eventually if they start with him a job heroes and then a address regency the same way they did this all season whatever I think he would he would play, but he ain't gonna out coach our ball eighty, three ballot check none of them none of them, and if you bay real, you need, you need to say like get him. You know we're really scares him. Worse than that we could do is lose oddities games. Let's say penny goes early in take in I've been hearing this they take Jamarcus Jomar chases not like we gotta protect Joe Borough we can't go out there and grab another receiver I've already been hearing people say let Aj's walk and get another receiver and as really just like taking the band aid off. Yeah. waddled like no I'm not doing that I. Don't and I told people this the year that we picked John Rocks it was nothing against John Roberts I was telling people we have anybody to replace Bigwig. he knows trash and I told my man moody this and he can vouch for as we got way that we know is trash Jake Fischer is trashed, and this is when people were talking about might Williams John Ross? It was right before that and I was like Bro we literally don't have offensive line it doesn't matter if you have a Randy Moss, they're like the quarterbacks never gonna be able to get the boss woman if you don't get him attack or something there, right we didn't do it. We Win I got John. Ross and honestly the biggest reason allege our Ross this. Period has not worked is because they don't have people to long enough for them to be able to make their routes and stuff like that. Like John Roscoe's she he's taken off if he goes to eagles, he's taken off if he goes anywhere else got out of. All he goes anywhere anywhere. He's taken off because those teams have invested in their offense salon. They have people there that know what they're doing and we'll have the line. Stay, strong enough for them to be able to compete these plays and I think that that's where bengals fans are missing. The point is we need to have offense alignment. We got to protect Oh borough look at what the coats did. The coach literally spent most of their draft capital protecting that because Andrew lucked was there they didn't do that and as a result of that, he got beat up yet they went to the playoffs they want some games, but Andrew was supposed to win the super. Bowl. Especially coming off of. What they did there in a way too late to invest in the line the bengals are really Andrew Luck in a situation. I'm not saying they're not be able to go out and get a wide receiver later, but you gotta at least been one or two picks on that line. One has to be a guard when it has to be a right he got us. Up Our whether you deal with that in free agency, whatever you gotTa do get the foundation right and then get the rest of the pieces. Why with that said I do think that there's a chance that John Ross could be traded to Philadelphia. That's just what of makes sense to me Philadelphia no receivers right now they just did something where they made flesh talks restructure his deal that could be allowed them to take on. contract. To me, you just gotTa get kid a chance like he's GonNa leave here all you guys that are doubting him I'm not the biggest Ross Fan. I'm just telling you as a logical football fan. He has talent. He has be you put him in offense where they're doing that like you said them at airs cardinals he's GonNa. Take off is going to happen, and then you're going to be upset in there you're going to be like, why don't we do that? What's going to happen but but I think It's certain players that I think work in a certain players that don't. Match it up with the personality of I listened to you all the people that are here. Tonight, I appreciate you more than anything because outside Ima- bubble like I'm all around people that I live a very fast life. So a lot of the concepts and things that people tell me or whatever. Like I okay. WHOA like that's why John Ross pick is like big like I. Love the pit because it's like less masks the gas let's go crazy right. But I learned a lesson in life with that is that as you say, you have to block, you have to be able to have. You have to win the churches. You GotTa understand where are we? We're going to AFC north like the browns are four two right now because even in the off season. They they did so much between them and the bills they did everything in the draft in the free agency, they go boca their line and do it on the defense. Aside, a free agency was Sheldon Richardson people like that Libya Verney. People like that that they both the churches you look at our churches I? Think we did the same thing in deepens right. But it's just so crazy that we got six starting defensive lineman that are just hurt and people will just kind of disregard that part in that's a big factor in this whole thing but move before. They got to put it all together though I just want people to understand that if you go get like a flashy player or something like that, there's a little bit more de that comes with it. Sometimes y'all got to be open to it because if you're not, you're going to be on Marvin Lewis. And just ruined his dues mind like. In a reason why I say that is because it. I all right listen the reason why I love Joe Borough as much as I do. In might not be paying attention to the some of the stuff that I show now but I showed it on twitter showed on the ground was the first thing Joe Borough did when he signed right he went and got a chain. You know who you know you know me I like chains I like ice I. Like big how I was just like I want cool stuff right people that have that type of like he has other aspirations I believe outside of football he has other demands that he wants he's not he's he is from Ohio but he's not A. With his mindset, he will roll out on you like Hugh Jackson. We did a huge accident interview. You know Ya gotta understand the makeup of people that don't think like everybody that's in your neighborhood i. don't think like a lot of people that we engage with every single day Joe Borough Imi I feel like I'm connected with him. We listen to the same music. We I like I like car choices. Choices, different things like that. Those things Kinda matter when he comes to a press conference at says some stuff imagine if this three years from now and maybe they aren't they aren't winning. We're past the honeymoon states you got one hundred and this is a dull gray hair like he's going to say some stuff that maybe you ready for dolphins is gonNA come out there and say every single generic thing known to man and he's just going to play football and then go to Bible study and for a lot of people that's what they want from their football player. This guy is going to be demanding people he's going to be demanding results. He's GonNa be People's neck. He might say some stuff that you don't like he might have new change that you don't like he might do a lot of different things that are outside the bubble that you live and right now it don't be surprised. We get past this honeymoon stage say we aren't winning any comes in he starts calling out people understand who this guy is. Owner reason why he's doing it is because he's super passionate about winning. And it has nothing else involved with it just because we don't have the saints face doesn't mean that we can't work together. He has a different taste than Wilshire accustomed to I'm giving young that warning right now you're going to see him at parties you going to see him on yachts you're going to see them with rappers. You're going to see him doing a lot of stuff that number fourteen never did. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't like football that doesn't mean that he doesn't Love Ohio it doesn't mean any of that. He has a different mindset than which are accustomed to. So, you better be ready for that. Part of that is if you don't give him what he wants the same way I am throughout my day, if you don't give me what I want in this battlefield that I'm living in life right now, I will move you right out the way and I'll keep on going on my same path 'cause I'm we'll get to the finish line. Some people aren't that demonstrative. Some people aren't that aggressive Andy was never that aggressive but the one thing that it does it makes everybody on on on on their on their toes like people would have their next. That are blocking going to be saying, I don't want Joe. Call. Me Out I. Don't want to be the person that is the person that got Joe hurt I don't to be for like he's going to be. He's like, say they lose this whole season he will call our Taylor he will name much. I. Like when he when he's not in the different in that press conference where he was like you know I wanted to score wanted to kick field goals are the rest of the game. I. Thought that was kind of a shot Zach as the way I took it. Because Zach chose to do the field go. Any might be because this is what's going to happen at the end of the day. He wants to win more than probably mostly most a lot of people been fans. He ain't even a bengals fan most people would have probably here right now most people listening right now been a fan longer than him, but he wants to win way more than you. And that's a that's a crazy pill to swallow. This guy is playing for your franchise and you better give him what he want and you better not try to say, oh, because he went to a party, he lost the game or whatever he's built different. He's going to work everybody going back that shit up. But at the same time you better give him what he wants. Let's get into some of these questions as. Did. You have any other thoughts on that before we get into these. The only other thing I wanna say is a lot of I heard somebody say economics and stuff like that like I have my Mba, the bengals can do what they need to do to still survive in Cincinnati like if they build a contender at this city will support they will have absolutely no problem with doing that because Ohio in Cincinnati more general you know when? You got. JP Morgan. You have all of these established businesses in Cincinnati instance ninety make money. So if they want to support the team, they can't support team. So if they put out a competitive team out there on the field or not obviously, it's a family organization all that we know that but he has to make an investment that will set the city on fire. Because just imagine if the bengals go to the playoffs winner gang do. You understand where their footprint is. It spans past I live in Florida. Now bengals fans out of town, Zim lives. In D. C. He sees bengals fans out there I mean, he's bingles fan himself. You go on a west coast. There's Bengals fans like there's Bengals fans all over here and it's just growing because of Joe Borough and when you have personalities Ferraris like that a lot of people were introduce for the Bengals by Johnson Light. Display ads now ho Ero that right happening you will constantly get coverage on ESPN if borough is playing good in the bengals winning, they will be on TV. Literally every single day nobody knew about the New England patriots really like that until they started winning, they're not in the biggest market they're not in New York in Chicago and not in La but they win and that's what you need to do in order to get to that level. Right. All right. We got a lot of people in here shot Joe Joe cya Hernandez. He says he's an organ I said Oregon I've been drinking specialty so. Bear with me people That's K J he's from New Jersey I. Am jail says he's a he's live in California I. Think Ross needs to go through. that. WAS MY I consider. I. Could See I'm going Allie boy get uncomfortable. Yeah I could see that's what I said forty nine and you got a genius coach. He's smarter. Hill. I think it works Let's go. Says how long till we is that Taylor as How long until we fires I from what I heard Jeff Hobson yesterday on his interview on inside the jungle. He said whenever we know we'll know I think for me. I feel like Mike Brown may give him the end of the season but of Joe Borough I think the steelers game martinet Marquette Game Down I. Know a lot of people talk about how might brown haze browser he does because of their ownership in the history. But of Joe Borough goes out and get sacked in the steelers game like ten times or gets hurt something like that that Taylor is gone. So I think I think within these next four weeks in excluding the bathroom net district will determine how long he's. He's there I'd probably say. Sixty forty percent I'd probably say this for forty sixty percent chance that he's fired during the season right now I'm leaning towards the sixty but have Joe Burgas her oh, that's probably ninety eight. He's editor. Okay I mean I think I was telling you this. They had a two loss stretch I. think his seat is super high and I said that right before the colts game because might we're on does not losing to the browns now if it's a close game, that's one thing but I really feel like it sees is like on fire if they get blown out by the Browns, the browns coming dogs by twenty something points. I think I feel like that's going to be the whole entire press conference because. I just think that's the whole thing but but like you said, the steelers game. That's a great measures because they're so good. I think losing to a team that Mike Brown doesn't like the rounds. He absolutely wants to kill the browns every single time we plan. Oh definitely or like getting embarrassed by team. That's like say we played the giants Sorta Redskins or something like that, and then we like lose bad. I. Think something like that. Is. The only way you could see him getting fire and season. Also says also, should we build our line through free agency or the draft? I think you gotTa do a mix of both I think from the right tackle position you go out and you get someone that is an established veteran I wanted Jack La. Find someone like that and go ahead and senator deal because it solidifies your line. When it comes to the guard the Bengals stoically don't like Pan Guards. So going to drafting gifts you one in guard is you can get a good guard in the second or third round light you can get one you need to guard. Yeah. I agree you definitely need to guard. So maybe you do sound one and free agency Larry were I mean we thought about it he lives around this area as. GotTa be a couple of different things if you're drafting in the top ten yes. Let's go get go get the tackle if it is penny right somebody like that. If your top five then you could do that but outside of that, we're talking about losing. Aj Green off the books potentially Gino Aga's dunlap guys like that Geo. You'll like four million audibles like you got a bunch of guys. I saw a figure where somebody was shown. They had like sixty, seven, thousand, a cap space it will put you in a position. To sign to sign absolutely the best tackle on the market aside from that, you go to the drab and you draft three offers alignment I don't care if the other two are seven six around pieces of them. You come to training camp an all out war, but you have to go to second round around something like that to get like a Gar- you not going to get too many tackles that are ready for. The NFL like right like. So just understand that when you go to look at the tackle position is going to be looking at developmental pieces and people like Adedeji that you're making later on like converting over something like that later in the draft. But early on if you are talking about starting office alignment, you're you're talking like top five top ten once you get out of that, you get those dicey guys that could. Be Day one slice day, two guys and all that crap like that. So to me, they gotta do the bills and the browns did go heavy heavy office Largo, get three in the draft. Go go sign the top tackle out there in probably signed an undrafted free like you going to go to the you're to go to Ota's have like an all out war all of these guys in guards in free agency aren't. That high compared to which you will be paying for the for the tackle position and open market. So they got to go against the grain of what you were just saying like they normally don't do that from the guard position. They normally don't sign DJ readers at world. So they need to go out and go SAN DJ reader in the guard position will probably running about eight, nine, ten, million dollars per in. If you were to say that in all season right now coming into this year everybody say hell yeah, that's a no brainer. Give it to me. But at the time you're it seemed like a big deal. So they went and got Russillo feel who who I did lie but. It's not a number I should have been Sandra around. Bound. For. The kids to me is is to get multiple and I'm a big proponent of getting extra debt at all of these different position. So you have options not. Debt death pieces. So Sean Williams of the world can be pissed at you because you're not playing them like I'm talking about guys that really like WanNa battle it out and is a team effort thing that miscommunication guys thinking they're going to have a bigger role and then you bring them on an you give them ten snaps. That's not that's not the same thing. All right next question. Fuses the quota the season is don't waste talent Andrew Siler. Says I hope I said that right Andrew or Sealer says, do you think that will be in jeopardy next week the browns blows out at home. I kind of answered that one. We need. Nando. Also says we need to assign Quinton Spain ace did a video earlier today on new Stripe Cities Youtube. So please check that out and get his thoughts on Quainton Spain someone asks later on it here. What is Spain's PF grade that was polling is slightly higher than Redman in is slightly higher than Michael Jordan. So it is and upgrade. This year hasn't been as good as his past but believe me it is an upgrade, but I will tell you this I. Think the staff says, no, we got our guys like what? What did what he Jim Turner say a couple of weeks ago. Oh we got all of our answers in house. So people were thinking that Spain is GonNa come across your screen with the dinner then I don't think so. But in all actuality, they should. I just think that they're preaching this this whole thing of cohesion, but they're the most non-cohesive. Guard tandem in the whole national football league. So it doesn't even make sense. Do you have any thoughts if people don't check out your video on Spain? I I. I. Don't think that they'll do I think that they should do. But the fact that he was cut I think that they would have to claim them and pay some of that money which are not going to do, and then if you're him like coming from that was on route to the playoffs in now you have your choice of picking a team. Why would you go to a one four on one team and he probably knows courting Lynn probably about Jim Turner wit corded gun he's probably not going to air guys don't get your. Right. Hey I. Part of me. Wants to seize that in his crew. Run with I said this in our last time that we had to show is that I want to evaluate all of the players because not playing the current guys right now, part of me just wants to enough maybe fail with some of the players that they believe in said that we could just move them out the way if they fell on it, they fall on their face. If you go and bring it all the like somebody new in your battling it out a little bit at practice or something like that. I think at least like a little bit of doubt or. Brings it. So that next year that some of these guys still hang on I. Think we've seen the last of like Sean Williams in. Some of these other guys just because by the time a new staff comes on there's nothing on tape is what I was saying last week in. So many. Questions that they get a Ah let's let's go through these really quick because we wrap this up de. Blade poll said these car analogies great. Appreciate that Blake road grace's Marvin Lewis was a better coach. The team will be five one right now, I. Don't agree with that. do you? Think, do you think do you guys think Taylor will be fired? Row has the best comment tonight. Why didn't we trade a six round pick for Trent Williams? Dan Shrinkage traded for like a third or fourth or something like that. I think it was a six bro I don't think he's wrong on that. It was low. It was super low. Four. Newark super-low. I'm GonNa fact checker right now. would've. I appreciate you guys for hanging around pick. Fifth Round pick that's nothing. Who Do. We pick in the fifth round issue y'all can't even say who picked fifth round here. Was it a dingy Hell. Because Bailey with nothing against the dentist, not taking a shot at him or anything but Trent Williams pro. Life Man Jay Jay Khuda. Paul J. Khuda says Tobin has drafted attend a bus since two thousand fifty. Don't say the Landing Macleod says one day I will be rich enough by the bengals and make us all one big happy fan base. So if you WANNA, just donate money to landed mccloud, so he could buy the bengals go right ahead Rum Royal Kareem. Now, we gotTA keep my boy that's my boy. It was eight nine, I believe the. Crash. He's been flat I'm not saying that because we brought him on that's my boy but he's been flashing light i. was going back and doing some film review like he's been he's been so close to get sex and that's one thing that pisses me off why plan Armani bledsoe over him like if you're not GonNa play done, let you need to play colleague Kareem. There's no reason that our money bledsoe should be getting more snaps in Kaluga rings. So yeah, definitely delivering I am jail says who they are want coaching our Ferrari, who is your coach that you want? I the Ferrari he's talking about I think he's talking about. Joe Borough. Who is our Ferrari? I think it's definitely drove borough no no I'm saying his question is who do you want coaching you can have. If I could have any coach coach. WHO WOULD IT BE? That's a great question once he said that. People started saying who I thought. You were going to say I like people are going to hate me for this. And as COU. I would go and get Jim harbaugh because Jim Harbaugh the forty niners to the super bowl and then when they got rid of him like they completely crowd. going. Jim Harbaugh he was Andrew. That Joe girl to go and get Jim Harbor I would I mean Jim Harbaugh. Thing I heard there. What did you do to get fire he? The GM. That's. The world three years ago I. Don't know if you guys check out daddy o mcdonagh I went on his show and we were talking about the search for like hires or something like that. This is. This is a year before Marvin Lewis got fire I. Think Jim, Harbaugh did he was I? Mean I'm sorry. Jim Right, no John Harbor John and the Ravens Won. Him Jim was having a hard time and Michigan. They were giving him a hard time whatever and I was like that was I I was like man that's the pick. We did a whole show about everything. I totally forgot about him he will be so amazing. See People like Eric B enemy is a Great Messenger 'cause that came up next. Is a great messenger to. A common ground with the players he played Lou I love him I don't know. About him like the more and more like watch him in our watched that she's Dan like just on the sideline stuff like that the more and more learn about him the more and more. It makes me be like I don't know that's a clear cut like candidate. It sounds good. Just like a what's Joe Brady right. It sounds good and I can't even really see you know but. Like you said. Jim Harbaugh. I'm hardware from Ohio from Toledo Ohio. Drake. Borough from Australia. Somebody said. Nah I mean Lincoln. I'm not big on? Fresh out there like I'm not unless like Zach Taylor Point O'Connor it's kind of Clinton. Is kind of cliff kingery ish. But I, I don't think like see the problem is. He knew he knew column Murray before he got the job. So he picked him collars has guy he's riding with right like that's just college like think about what Aj said when Joe Borough drafted he was like before he got draft he was like, yeah, he's nominated an air but that's college like NFL players NFL. Veterans that are in the League they're not GonNa really respect college coaches like that harbor has already proven at the next level and he can get to the Super Bowl. And stuff like that. So He's GonNa Command a ton of respect from these guys and I think the last thing that you want to do is bring another guy in like Lincoln Riley or Joe Boroughs gerbils coached that went to the panthers I can't recall his name you guys will probably say it in the chat I don't think you should do should go that route I think exempt said not the college coach out going get somebody establish Gogi Hara for me I'm GonNa tell you. I forgot somebody might have told me. There's a couple of years ago or something like that might have been daddy O as well. But one thing that the bengals need to do is you could sell me on volkswagens and civics and stuff like that all day you could go do it like I go look studied one of my other good. I really really like is the Jon Gruden buccaneers. You could sell me on a bunch of Light Subaru's Volvos and all that stuff like that if you give people. In the leadership pro like. Tobin. In the format that I'm saying is that you have to bill parcells the situation everywhere their bill parsoes goes he comes in and does a complete overhaul of everything in the whole entire building in equates winds everywhere he goes go look it up. It has to be somebody like that. That's trusted like if Joe Gibbs came and said these are all on my guys and I want to Do it. This way in this is how we're GONNA do it we're going to run the football. We're going to do this or we're going to run this game in this is it Kinda eluded like kind of go hand in hand what you were saying earlier in the program is that you just need a personality that knows how to formulate culture and not come to a podium and. Just, say it like you gotTa have somebody that really has done it by winning super bowls that knows what it takes to do it and doesn't because it has to kind of go hand in hand with the personalities of the city and stuff like that I don't think the fans John Ross could go thousand yards. But if you got hurt tomorrow, it just doesn't work with the city. Like that side we're player I think the new coach has to be somebody like like a like a gym horrible that comes in his own approach and is really like everybody just trust is decision making in it has to go all the way from the top to the bottom but Mike Brown isn't GonNa ever give us that he's never going to give us a situation where he's just. I'm I'm bill parcells will fire like the whole lunch lady in that thing like when they cut when he comes in the giants when he came in there, whatever everything must go like you know like that type of guy and that's the only way to culture could change the other thing that can that can swing a culture is at the quarterback position, the most important position and it starts with him. In. It starts with his demands and that's why in his four year tenure, the fans got to understand he's going to have a different voice and you'd better be behind him. His contract is about to expire this bengals who Jim Harbaugh's contract is expiring at the end of the season. So we're so This is everyone do. Here, we did the harbaugh stuff everybody out there twitter world y'all screaming Eric Enemy Mia as the first people on a Har- boss. Ray, if you not two birds with one stone talking you right now if you just so happen here this. Not, two BIRDS WITH ONE STONE harbor. Let him be the DM the defect Oji. Antics coach save you two for one. Don't have to pay a whole another gym area that took one. As he you know what's so crazy about him. He is crazy as hell ever heard him like a press conference and stuff. I. Love that imagine like. With Jim Harbaugh Joe Borough like this team like Ro. House is. Almost outta here guys I, think we I. Think we've done Somebody say where do you draft a corner? How do you feel about the cornerback? That's the last question on my answering. Would you feel about the ace woody? How do you want? What are you looking at the cornerback position? You have faith trains. Coming up I'm not, GONNA, speak on without you know I've talked to just casual football fans. They are not the biggest fans of tradewinds we'll have to see like maybe it might have been I can't see that though like he played under his emmer like we all know Zimmer, Co, Diaz Oh couldn't play like that under Zimmer I don't really have. Would just have to see like I'm not mad at him being a number two corner. But if you're telling me that William Jackson, the third is GonNa leave and he's GonNa be your number one corner then have an issue with that but we'll see we'll see what it is if that is the case, their plan is to try to go after. `certain Patrick's Tan son or something like that. Next year I can do that would be a mistake I think that she should retain William Jackson the third but we'll see what winds has. If he makes it back, I don't think he's making their back this season, but we'll see. I'm. So, thank you very much for checking us out people. Please hit the subscribe button on this bad boy here I appreciate you every day of your lives more than you could think of if you have friends and the people around you telling you hey, ish bengals fan because you tell them the eat shit and tell them said it and. That's all I wanted to say. This. But I want to apply everybody for sticking sticking through this thing honestly because this is GonNa be a rough season. But I don't think it lasts long because we got number nine at the helm as you got any closing thoughts that you want to say. Nah. Don't let your. Fan, ship like make you think that Jim Harbaugh is not a good coach. When he went to a super bowl like I don't WanNa hear that don't make. I O state fan of billy prices, not a bus over John Ross. But yeah, that's all I got. Thank you guys for for rock and with us we appreciate all the support can't wait to talk to you guys again. Who?

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The Forecast for D-Day

Weather Geeks

39:39 min | 2 years ago

The Forecast for D-Day

"On June six nine thousand nine hundred forty four more than one hundred sixty thousand allied forces stormed. The beaches of France during World War Two this day would be etched into the pillars of history as d day this year, as we remember the seventy fifth anniversary of landing on the beaches of Normandy. We look back at the forecast behind the mission. And how weather prompted one of the biggest scheduling changes in modern history today, we're joined by John Ross author of the forecast for d day and the weatherman behind I'ts greatest gamble. John, thank you for joining us on the weather geeks podcast Marshall, it's really great to see you again. Oh, it, it really isn't for those of you that have watched the weather, geeks TV show. You may remember John because we had him on talking about this, and he was such a popular guest and such an interesting guests. We wanted to have him back, and he reached out, and we were able to make this work, so. Really happy to have you actually in studio. We sometimes we are talking to someone remotely. But I'm I'm in the studio with John, and he such a fascinating guest. I wanted to start off a having you tell us a little bit about yourself in your fascination with history. Well, my interest Marshall has always been the intersection between natural history and by human history. And there is no time in history. That was more significant when weather played such a large role and human history. I mean getting to the none of the issue. If the invasion had failed all of western Europe would have gone communist. Can you imagine the impact that would have had all based on weather forecast? So you I mean it's interesting that you, you make such a provocative statement right out of the gate that the weather forecast. Was that important? Absolutely. Because all the men. All the women all the ships of the planes, all the trucks, all tanks, all the initial, all of the rations gathered there, staged in England and Scotland. Everything was loaded on the boats June four some of them are already sale, and Eisenhower has to postpone the weather forecast, or the, the invasion. The question in my mind, was how in the world did he know I wanna I want to we're going to Keith out on this topic for the next several several minutes in the podcast. But before we even get there, you've done a nice job of setting the stage. Can you just give the weather geeks listeners because we have a range of listeners in all ages? They may have a vision of wet weather forecasting is like today. But can you give a little context of just the weather forecasting in in the forties? I mean, then we didn't have the fancy models that we had today, perhaps tell us a little bit about the context for the forecast is and what they were using at that time. Imagine whether forecasting with no computers with no satellites. With no radar. They had thermometers ahead barometers they had by wet fingers held up in the wind. They had wind speed and direction indicators, and they could look out and they could see the percentage of cloud cover essentially, you know, a lot of these things recording devices. Pas they could actually have plots of how things are changing. But this is a sensually the same gear that a lot of us have our homes. That's what they were using. Exactly. And I think about this in a modern context John, and how easy it is for us today to pull up a geosynchronous, weather, satellite image and look at the current storm patterns and systems over Europe. I mean they didn't they didn't have that at all not at all. And, you know, at least half a dozen times during the day, maybe more, I go to the Weather Channel app on my phone, right? And. I look at what's coming down the pike because I wanna know they had no well the head no idea, but they did have an idea and part of the part of the back story fascinating about this is. Everybody knows about the Neg macoute this top secret German code while the way they broke that code was back in the early days of the war. They captured a couple of 'nigma machines and the Germans were still using the old international patterns for broadcasting weather data. Interesting. And so the people were able to see those patterns translate by the German word wetter Vetter, and they should all. This is a weather report. That's how they broke the code now. And so imagine in the weeks before d day, half a dozen weather ships in the North Atlantic. And then these poor guys who are flying bombers b seventeen largely on weather reconnaissance missions, all alone out of the north. Atlantic taking weather readings night, and they would fly different elevations. So they could sample of the weather using their flying different elevations in the same way that in modern weather forecasting. We use weather balloons. They're trying to get data at different levels of the atmosphere. Exactly. And the navy. He probably was using weather balloons, and the, the airman flying. If the plane went down there was no hope rescue, and occasionally German weather, aircraft and allied whether aircraft, flew together because these guys were meteorologist, and many of them knew each other before the war, and there were safety because if an American aircraft went down, they were pretty sure the Germans would alert the Germans that there was a downed aircraft share, share. Now, I want to take this time we're talking with John Ross, the author of the forecast for d day, which is a compelling. Fascinating story that we're gonna kinda get all into a little later. I'm going to actually talk to John about his book, and the weatherman man behind ice greatest gamble as well. Because I'm not as I've had a chance to read the forecast for D had a chance to take look at that one yet. So when it gets to incite, but I wanna get back to the the day. Tell us little bit about this group of meteorologist who were they in and, and we know their imports, but who were they? Well, the it's, it's really fascinating. There were actually three teams of meteorologists. There was the United States Air Force. There was the Royal Navy the admiralty, and then there was the British met office, which was sort of the civilian equivalent to our weather bureau. Yes. But the British met office did weather forecasting for the RIF. So it was under the air ministry, though. It was civilian. But all the guys in the medoff is, or suits and ties or turtlenecks. And so the Americans couldn't figure out who these guys were because there was no rank on their shoulders allow and no fruit salad on their chest. Wow. So that's, that's how we know who you are. Right. Sure. And I mean, was there conflicting information recommendations that each allied country had regarding the forecast. I remember something about that. Well, what's interesting is that? Western europe. England three thousand miles west of there, there's nothing but water. And so there method of weather forecasting was based on that still very murky field of atmospheric physics. Right. They were just learning that. And that was developed. A Norway, the Norwegian school, the we'll Bjork nece and those folks. Absolutely. And so that was just coming into vogue. Now, we've got the Americans okay. The Americans have got three thousand miles of land from the Atlantic to the Pacific. So when a storm comes shore in California, or Oregon contract it across the country. And so they were used to seeing the weather, and so therefore forecasting, what sort of empirical right where the British forecasting was very theoretical. And that set up conflict like you would not believe because all all the material most of the men. Where americans. And so the Americans modest souls that we are our show. You have to take our weather forecast. You know, it's interesting as I sit here and listen to you talk about this John even today as I think about the United States and, and are very good weather forecast that we have in the modern era where there are still challenges though, is on our west coast, because there's a large ocean to the west of the coast, and so we don't have as much data. We don't have as much weather balloon information. We have satellites and other things, but many of those large storms that come off the Pacific into the Pacific northwest and California. Sometimes they do create forecast, challenges, because you're in a date avoid to some degree because of that ocean to the west and that's exactly the situation we had with Europe precisely show. I mean. All the satellites, we have we pretty much know where the storm systems are, but the specifics of win and wear really hard to predict. Yeah. And so I, I don't envy, you guys Elliott. Well, you know, we're pretty good at what we do in ninety to ninety five percent. Accuracy, I believe, in the, you know, zero to three to five day range, at least but they're, they're still as, as I was talking about recently with Luigi, Lena, the head of the weather service, national weather service on another podcast episode there still uncertainty and what we do in there always will be, but. This uncertainty that we're talking about could have changed the course of history with this d forecast. How do we get to that June fifth date? Take a step back and go back into the different tech. Reused. Back in the WPA days in the nineteen thirties, there was a project to transcribe forty years of daily weather maps in for north for the northern hemisphere onto computer punch cards early IBM cards. And so that was done actually done in New Orleans. And from those cards, the chief forecaster for the allies, kind aimed Irving p creek believed you could put it. Well, produced weather maps, and he believed from those distort weather maps. He could predict whether anywhere in the world. Thirty days to sixty days in advance. Yes, I've heard the story as well there, there's some ethical issues that surround people now that try to do these deterministic sort day-to-day forecast thing, you know, months to two years. I mean, we can certainly do climate projection short-term climate thing using things like El Nino and some other signals at the large scale, but sort of the day-to-day forecast beyond about fourteen days, or so you're starting to get into the noise, they atmospheric system. Gets really if it's murky quite a bit. I mean even today even today stand the foundation of his philosophy was not bad called persistence for Kia. We still do some persistence forecasts in particular when they're large high pressure systems, and we seat, it's going to sit there for a while. Yeah. Today. Tomorrow's weather's we largely liked today's something changing. Absolutely. But what they didn't realize was a things were really change. And so explain to the listeners that by the difference between the Arctic high, and the Bermuda high. Yeah. Absolutely. Because, you know, we have a global circulation system. And one of the things that we teach in our basic meteorology class is sort of global circulation, and you've got this Hadley cell model Farrell cell and because of the circulation patterns on a rotating earth with a warmer, tropics and a colder poll, you have these pressure systems that set up you've got low pressure and you have high pressure. One of the reasons the world's desert's are located where they are about twenty thirty north twenty thirty south. She's got these large sub-tropical high that sit there in the air sinking. And so the Bermuda high if you will is one of those systems, they also govern how hurricanes move. The Arctic high up in the Arctic regions, the part of the different global circulation system. And so understanding the behavior of these highs and lows, and then you superimpose on that particularly certain parts of the year, these transient frontal systems, or what we call mid latitude cyclones that come through, and you get a very dynamic weather system show, you show picture the as ores high and the Arctic, and then they're rubbing against each other shared, and like big years. Yeah, and so what's rotating counterclockwise between them are these little gears? She's one of those little gears storm system here. And so those are the storm systems that bring us the rotten weather. Oh, sure that we have gradients in temperament because they're, they're, you know, these mid what we call mid latitude cyclones, essentially sort of synoptic in Moscow systems. We have gradients our differences in air masses because you've got the colder continental polar maritime polar air mass got this hotter, more moist air in the sort of sub tropical regions. They don't mix very well when they do they do it angrily. That's right. And so think about these cold pressures fronts, cold fronts. Swing across the North Atlantic, like beads on a neck. And then there was the front it originated in Manitoba and during that first week of June was working its way across the Atlantic, and the question was, when's it going to come hitting land and the invasion beaches? And, you know again as difficult as it was, then we still sometimes it's at challenge, because we have the best weather models in the world and the timing on frontal passages and the severity of the gradient between temperatures at least fronts, even our model sometimes struggle with that today, every time you hear about these, nor Easters along the on the northeast coast. And who's going to have the rain, snow? Is it gonna be raining in Washington DC, or is it going to be snowing in Washington, man? Oh man I lived in upper Ville Virginia for a number right? Outside of Washington. DC. And if the front passed a little bit further to the west, we got rain, right? If it was fifty miles to the east. We got thirty inches of snow in the backyard. Absolutely. And I lived in DC area even even here in the Atlanta area, we deal with that. Now I believe you live up in the North Carolina mountains now, so certain times year when it when you get a snow forecast, it's probably going to be snow. Well, and it's and the forecasting is fairly reliable. I mean, things twirl around in the mountains a little bit, but it's more a question of allegation. Absolutely. But here in Atlanta, for example, we deal with that. And the reason I'm setting that up is even an era of very good modern day weather forecasting, the precision, or the accuracy of where those frontal systems aren't a difference in the type of weather, the strength of the winds that all very much depends on these frontal systems, and where that mid-latitudes cycle on setting up, whether it's intensifying or not, whether it's moving certainly. So we arrive at this June fifth date originally. Let's go back a little. Bit further back back once Ness get back one step. Okay. So the reason why they had good weather forecasting. Where's the people who are taking the observations? Yes. And so imagine you're on a destroyer and you're steaming in circles in the North Atlantic. And it's your job to release the weather balloon to track it and to record its direction on a plane table. Right. And or your you're on the ground and you have to look outside and you have to measure accurately, the allocation of clouds here and there direction. It was the people who made the forecast. And that's what made the difference, they were dedicated. The Weather Channel is partnering with lands in to give you a chance to win some amazing gear three lucky winners will receive the new ultimate rain jacket that the Weather Channel meteorologist will be wearing during the upcoming hurricane season. So what are you waiting for? Enter for your chance to win at we love weather dot TV slash land in that we love weather dot TV slash land. And we are back on the weather geeks podcast. I'm Dr Marshall talk Marshall shepherd. I'm so excited about the conversation. I can't even speak. I'm really geeky. Just I mean, I've talked to John before and every time I talked to him. I learned something new. So I'm just I hope you since the same excitement that I have John Ross is the author of the forecast for d day, as well as the book and the weatherman behind greatest gamble. And we're, we're marching through this epic day because we're coming up on the seventy fifth anniversary of the landing on the beaches of Normandy, and the d day invasion, which actually changed the course of history. And we're, we're marching toward this June fifth day that was originally decided, but then, because of whether there was a chain. So pick up the story there, well and show everything's already to go. All the planes, the ships, you know all the supplies. But what was the one thing that all the admirals and the commanders at generals couldn't command the weather, the weather that was the one uncertain? Right. And so I- our forecast. Right. And so there are these teams of the Royal Navy and our air force, and the, the medoff each doing a slightly different forecast for the day. And so came down to one man James, Martin stag, who was ice chief meteorologist everybody hated stay. He was the consummate scientist he didn't give a damn about rank exactly he could care less about what service you were in. The only thing that was interesting to him was science. Right. And so, and he was a geophysicist his. His area of expertise, wasn't whether at all. Sure it was the earth's magnetic field as how did Eisenhower, come to trust stag, and this is another cool human part of the story. So when I didn't our and staggered, we're in the same headquarters before d day out of the air force base outside of London is in house, office was down the hall from stags Eisenhower, had a pass stags office, every day on the way to the war room, and so he would drop into stags office, and he'd sit down on a stool lean on a plotting table and say, well stag, what's the weather, just like that the same way he will be talking to his Barbara, Emily? Absolutely, what he was doing, which taking steely measures stag. Sure to find out whether he could trust this guy or not. Right. And so when stag stood up before Eisenhower, and Montgomery who was a land force. Commander Ramsey Puffer navy Lee Mallory for air. On June four and said. There's even though it's beautiful outside. We went hell of a storm is in Hauer. Believed him. All about that personal relationship. And I think that's important interesting. You know, one of the things I'm trying to do in sort of talking about this very important. Historical event is provide some contemporary context, you know, one of the things that there's been discussion about even contemporary context is, oh, we have weather on our apps now and we can get information, anytime we wanted about the weather on computers, but during these extreme events or during high impact events. People still say they want a trusted voice trusted human voice. Well, they do and, and behind all the technology, whether it was in nineteen forty four or whether it's today, what's going on in the mid west. It is people people on the ground. Exactly. And the other thing you know, the lesson for me and all of this is you really gotta trust science. Yes, I'm glad to hear you saying that because we are in an era where, you know, there are. I saw a study the other day published in the USA today on different science topics in what the scientists what percentage of scientists believe or understand that to be the case versus the public and there are large gaps between the scientists viewpoint on their science and what the public thinks. Well, I'm part of the problem is that scientists don't always agree. Yeah. I don't know why. Yeah, there's something called the fine typic- method and published repapered. And sometimes there's disagreement well as well there, should there should be discourse. But politics should enter into it. And that's a whole nother sucker. That's a whole different subject for different day. But I think this trust that we saw towards a colleague, really could have changed history. Oh, absolutely. If and if stag hadn't trusted the people that he was getting the information from on the American. Is, you know, it's easy to paint them with a bad brush, but stags deputy was a guy named Don Yates, and Don Yates was a pilot. And he was the one who worked with the Americans to get them to agree Stagg's forecast. And so the way this thing was set up with snag would give the weather, and then Yates standing next to stag would tell Eisenhower, and his commanders. What the weather forecast met? And so it wasn't stag who are saying, you can't go it, which tags saying this is what the weather's going to be and Yates saying, this is what it's going to do for the bombing missions and the landing on the beaches, and that sort of stuff. So what kind of weather was optimal? And what kind of ultimately changed the course of the forecast decision side? I, I'm curious about sort of what they would've wanted the what they were looking for I dearly, well, the optimum forecast. They called the d day minimums, where wind blowing onshore no stronger than eleven miles an hour and wind blowing offshore at seventeen miles an hour surf no higher than six eight feet because if who's any higher all those landing crafts would capsize and some of them did. And that's what I remember ride unbroken, cloud at eleven thousand feet. So the heavy bombers could see pretty well fifty percent cloud at five thousand feet, so the tactical bombers, the tank busters could get in and do their jobs and the heavy bombers at ten thousand feet. Could see spots where they could drop their bombs low tide. The Germans had planted all sorts of beach obstacles share, and they were convinced the Americans going to land at high tide, but he American said, hey, if we're going to clear, the beaches, we've got the land at low tide. And to find out what those obstacles were, they had frogmen the paddled to the beaches in collapsible kayaks believe this. Wow. And then when assure and map the obstacles verified, what they were seeing from the area photography. Wow. I think that's a something that many people may not realize, well, and those guys were also geologists and they were sampling the sands the find out whether they would support tanks awhile, and so it's dark at night, there's swimming ashore. The Germans are up there on the hills, and they don't this is sort of the, you know, the special forces type delicious special forces Brits. Yes. Did this major and so then there had to be moderate moon, not full moon, but they had to be some moonlight and they wanted to do it at dawn, they wanted to do it before the Germans were up and so. Fifty percent. Moonlight son just beginning to rise. That was the time for the invasion, while do you think that ultimately from your Lynn's at someone historian that has really sort of looked into this carefully? Do you think ultimately weather gave us an advantage or a disadvantage cave us, a huge advantage because the Germans had really good weather forecasting? And they knew that affront was coming. And so and everybody knows the story or some people know the story, the Rommel had gone to celebrate his wife's birthday leaving his headquarters. He commanded the Atlantic front, and the German generals commanding, the ponds IRS, we're all gathered in Reims. For wargames with fraud lines. I'm cells. And so they were they were engaging another sort of combat share the commanders were all away from the front because they thought the weather was going to be lousy and the allies, wouldn't possibly. Right. And so the question was in my mind, how did the how did Eisenhower stag. No. And it all comes down to a woman, postal clerk in an isolated village called black Saad point, which is about the furthest west northwest in Ireland. You can get well, and her job was to read barometer, and the through mama, ter- and air speed and look up and see the clouds and then report that to the Irish weather service. Now there was a secret treaty between Ireland which was neutral and England allied. Okay. And so the weather data collected in Ireland was fed into the allies system, but marines Tweety was the one who took those readings and confirmed the fact that the front had come through, and there was this lull for about thirty six hours behind it. Oh, wow. That, that's an interesting story there. So in addition to the forecast that changed history of the forecast for DJ. That's simple. Weather observations ship hit, weather observation. I mean, one of the things that really is emerging from this discussion is simple things that we as human beings, maybe overlook, sometimes trust a simple observation a simple point data point, absolutely, and trusting the science. And yeah you it keeps coming back to that. So can you speculate about? What would have happened had the forecast been wrong? Well, if the forecast to the two as the forecast could have been wrong, first of all, they could have gone on the night of four June, and landed on the fifth and during the storm. And so landing craft swamp are real advantage, was our air force. They couldn't bomb or strafe. Can you imagine? Right. And so the invasion would have failed right. The other thing that could have happened is that if the weather had been good all the ships are see the German see it, and they know what's coming and where it's going to hit. There's no question anymore about where the allies are going to invade an so Hitler would have authorized Rommel to move his ponders to the front, and the outcome would have been far different. The other thing that is fascinating about all this is two weeks after this little window was the fallback date for the invasion. The sixteenth seventeenth. Eighteenth of June. By that time. The allies put up all these advanced artificial harbours called Mulberries. Terrible storm. We're storm in forty years crosses a channel Rex all these artifice harbors. Can you imagine what would have happened to the invasion, if they had tried to go on that day that day? Wow. Yeah. I can't imagine that actually this is just so fast and fascinating to me. And, you know, one of the things that my, the producer of this particular episode Matt Reagan shutout to Matt Reagan did an extra job producing this episode of weather geeks. He he wanted me to ask you about the fourteenth weather squadron and had a chance to do that. About the fourteenth Vokes laughter. Okay. And so I moved to Asheville about four years ago right after I finished the book, and I knew the fourteenth weather squadron was there and the National Center NCDC the National Center for data, Medicaid, which they now call the National Center for environmental information used to be NCDC, and I was curious about how come they're there. Well back when the war started they wanted to get these folks out of Washington primarily, to free up office space for more important commands. And so they ended up in Asheville, and then right after World War Two all that WPA data from New Orleans was relocated in the grove. Arcade in downtown Ashland, because it was a great big empty space, the government, owns and so. So with all that data the air force weather wing headquartered. Now, the fourth fourteenth weather, squadron. That began to collect weather services in Asheville. Not only is the information services there. But now geospatial data's there. It's the greatest collection of American weather assets in the world. So people think about ashville, as being beer, shitty. It's not beer shitty as whether city. And we are back on the weather. Geeks podcast talking with John Rawson cisa fascinating discussion. I want to pick up on where we ended there because I actually have visited giving a talk there at what was in CDC and had a chance to meet some votes from that fourteenth weather squadron while I was there, and it was a fascinating visit that I had I, I was aware of that capability there. But I wanted to what did you to share it with the list now wanna pivot? And, you know, I wanna pivot to your books, but just before we leave that do you think these events shape the way we think about weather forecasting today? Anyways. I think it does to some degree. I think that people who have a little longer view of history, other than the last three days, right? Really understand this. I think that the thing that came out of this. The really influences history is what are they called? The grey warriors the great. Hata voyeurs. The grey berets the Graber, we've had them on TV show, right? The weather meteorologist, though, jump in special forces who jump in with a special forces special ops guys and do the weather. Yes. And they do the weather for tactical stuff. Yes. But all show that's absolutely critical for strategic sept-, both in the theater of operations. Yes. And internationally and I kind of suspect that had it not been for great weather forecast deta-, which proved that merit that might not be going on -absolutely. I think we've had talked to many sort of people from our US military, and our national security wing in. They, they talk about how critical weather climate information is to keeping us safe. I want to take opportunity to think those men and women of our armed services in general. Particularly those that are in the field of weather now let's talk. About your books to books, one want want to say, well, actually, that's a subtitle to the same book. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. I actually thought this was the same. I talked the way it's written here thought this was actually a second book. So let's talk about the book forecast for d day and the weatherman behind greatest Campbell. Well, the way I came to this was my father was an air force pilot instructor and World War Two and show. I was raised on a steady diet of military history. And I always wondered how did Eisenhower. No, right. And so and dad would take up in a small plane when he kept his license current flow around. So we sort of millier with weather stuff was always fascinated by weather. So flying by ones from Washington DC to Chicago. We passed up through a front, a small thunderheads, and I looked out, and I could see the lightning dancing within these thunder cells, and the woman sitting next to mean was frightened. And I said, wait a minute. Look at that it's beautiful, and she said, oh, I had no idea. That's right. Yeah. It's fascinating to sort of see nature in its in its sort of element there. And I think for many of us in the weather field, it's usually some type of immature event or memory that kinda got us into the field of weather as well. Where can people currently by this book? Well, the two things one is available through Amazon k and Barnes and noble. I think probably has it also I have a, a website. Okay. What's your website? D day forecast, one word, D, hyphen day forecast dot com. Okay. And so there's a summary of the book and I think an opportunity to buy it. I guess I'm not really great in promoting my book, and we'll, we'll certainly help you do that. And I wanna make sure I get a quick 'cause I've been spending all of this podcast saying this, if there are two books. The title of the book is the forecast for d day in the weather man behind ice, greatest gamble. Make sure you get that book. I don't want to let you leave before. I get your overall thoughts on the seventy fifth anniversary of the landing on the beaches of Normandy. What are your flexes a few years ago, close just before the seventieth anniversary? I took the ferry from Portsmouth over to France. And on board were some British vets who are going over. And but one of them told me the story about how he lated enormity headfirst. I fell over one of the chains on the railing. But then I walked into the American cemetery, and I saw that great statue with her arm soaring to the sky, and thought about all those soldiers, sailors, airman, nineteen to twenty three years old, who gave their lives to free northern Europe. I think about all the soldiers ever since and I think about the role that whether plays in their operations, you know as you as you talk about this. I reflect on a recent trip that my family and I took the new New Orleans we were down there for, I guess a bowl game, the university of Georgia BULLDOGS are playing the Texas longhorns. But while we were there, we had a chance to visit the World War, Two museum, which is quite good. I would say if you ever in New Orleans, and we watched the film, and very much featured the day, and I have to think after sent as I reflect their I one of the first thoughts that came to mind as my discussion with you on the role that weather played well, thanks Marshall. You're too kind. You know, when I think about this, I think about the interview that Eisenhower gave to Walter Cronkite back on the twentieth anniversary of d day. And when Cronkite ask him why did why were we successful Eisenhower's? Answer was. We had better weathermen. I think that's a great place to leave this weather podcast. I wanna thank John Ross for coming down from the beautiful, and cooler mountains of North Carolina, too hot. And steamy Atlanta, Georgia, the talk to us that they, thank you for joining us on Marshall, thanks very much for having really anytime. You're one of our favorite guests. Really appreciate it. And I wanna thank you, create you the listeners that are joining us routinely on the weather. Geeks podcast continue to join us and subscribe to the podcast on all the podcast outlets and we will talk to you next week. Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia. Thank you. Joining.

Eisenhower John John Ross Weather Channel Atlantic Normandy Europe New Orleans North Atlantic United States England Washington Marshall Royal Navy Don Yates France North Carolina Atlanta Dr Marshall shepherd
Deezer adds a dedicated podcast hub to their app

podnews

02:29 min | 1 year ago

Deezer adds a dedicated podcast hub to their app

"From Prague from our newsletter ipod News Dot net are announcing today the following John Ross from Troy and digital who technical partners for the Australian podcast rancor announced the SA SL conference in Prague that the Netherlands will launch a similar podcast rancor in twenty twenty and he also made this announcement on reserve patient. Every you may not know this is a one time only deal sitting inserted by we'll hear the music amp teaser has added a dedicated shows tab in their apple podcasts and other content including radio. It's now live in that. NPR UH has announced the news. Saturday edition of Daily News Program Up I. It starts this weekend of it by eight. Am Jet Blue a US. Airline has signed a deal with spotify for podcasts. It costs in their in flight. Entertainment System as the airlines exclusive podcast partner. The agreement will bring podcast from anchor. Gimblett podcast and spotify studios to to CPAC screens and you podcast network has been launched by thirty year old. Kurt Co media based in Malibu California podcast host transistor. It has a new web sites. They've also announced that they're supporting one percent for the planet. Giving one percent of sales to environmental nonprofits around the world on nineteen also has has a new website and has slightly tweaks logo. You'll see it in our gold supporters section and. We're grateful for the company for going gold this week. BBC sounds sounds has two point seven million weekly active users in the UK the BBC's Alison Winter announced to the Isaiah Conference in Prague. Yesterday and an arm and a leg a podcast about the true cost of healthcare in the US is a finalist for the true crime. Category of the discover pods awards as Dan. Wiseman the host says there are no police investigators or prosecutors in the story about the US healthcare system but quite a significant body. Count in podcast. podcast today. Thirty for thirty podcasts from. ESPN is back for a new season from November. The twelfth the season kicks off with a story about two of the most famous women in Sports. That's and that's the latest trauma. Newsletter called News Dot net.

Prague US spotify John Ross BBC apple ESPN partner NPR Kurt Co Netherlands California Sports Wiseman Alison Winter Dan UK one percent
Listener Questions: Marv's conservatism, 2019 draft options and time for Tate?

Cincy Jungle

23:49 min | 3 years ago

Listener Questions: Marv's conservatism, 2019 draft options and time for Tate?

"Uh-huh. We'll see what happens ever getting a call on the on the OB I line here John. So hang on one second. We'll get to that, but get point on the offensive line, the orange bike sadder. Who's this. Hanging in there, my friend how you doing. I'm just kinda hanging in there and they end up the difference between a gamble gamble at your more than twenty eight on your mind. Again, bird you might want to gamble, but on the forty yard and starting to have. The rest. Today you talking about that earlier, and then we are so frustrated with the Jayco. Because you're not gonna rest. Teams don't win. You don't our dog over memorable, vibrant frustration. It's a, it's a valid one, John, and we're going to, we're going to. We're gonna. We're getting a lot of calls here, so we're gonna. We're gonna get off, get off the air just a second here, but I do. I think it's valid one. I think as we mentioned, Marvin Lewis has in that game had opportunities to go for it in, you know, I can understand later in the game, maybe things are pretty tight. You know, you kinda say it, hey, let's look at the ball field position. It's raining, you know, we are at home all that kind of thing. My thing is I'm a big momentum guy. And as we mentioned here, you know, some people believe don't believe in in momentum being an actual thing in sports. I personally, I think it's a gigantic thing. I think it builds confidence and all of that. And I think that Marvin Lewis, you know, you get a fifty yard kick return to start the second half after you March down the field and scored a touchdown before the half, and then you sit on the ball and punnet. On a on a third shore. I think the deflate your football team I really do, and I think you lose the momentum that you gathered before before the the halftime gun in. And I think that's. Back bends Burke right. The ball back there. Turnovers numbers. You don't have competence one jar on the other genie already yard line to start the second half. I mean, the average owner in the NFL you better believe haven't worked with that coach on Monday morning, but evidently. Evidently, all this. No, I appreciate it on. We're gonna. We're gonna finish this question off. The appreciate you calling in great to hear from you as always others more. Definitely more to talk about here, but hopefully you enjoy the Sunday night football game. We'll be talking about the chiefs and just a little bigger. So definitely stay tuned for that reshaped the call, sir. You know, John. John on Lovie on John from Kentucky. He he makes he makes a great point in that, you know. The Bengals may have deflate, Marvin Lewis, Maeve deflated his team. By going that end you mentioned punts or kind of a form of turning over punts are basically forty sessions feebles our turnovers with a participation point. Touchdowns matters like turnovers. They said they're only fumbles their substance puzzle. Also part of turnovers might use the twenty eight yard punt. So it like in an era where analytics king the expected risk of just going for it on fourth in one, it's so monuments with lower than just giving the ball back to twenty yards down the field. So that that that that line of thinking is just so outdated, nothing perfectly encapsulates who Marvin Lewis coach in what totally in what what I wanted to get to was, you know your spend a second round, pick under quarterback, spent a first round pick on a center. You spend a first atop top five pick on wide receiver. For a second round. Pick on another wide receiver. Multiple second round picks on running backs. Granted, not everybody's on the field at this point, but you have invested a lot of draft capital at skill positions for these type of situations. And yet you punt just I don't get that. We've got another caller here. John Lena from good friend, Andrew Siler, Andrew. How are you sir? We're, we're, we're reeling from the loss the we're doing. All right. At the game. I don't really have question I wanted to say, I love you guys. I love the show and invest Bengals and wanted to be positive. I I really think don't be the envy this game on Sunday or touchdowns and for I'm calling right now. Okay. Well, that that was going with the next week. I, we love you back buddy pre sheet it. That's that's very flattering to together, but I will say this and I guess because you have. Because you've you've given us a little bit of Andy, Dalton, impressionable, get to your score impression score prediction in just a second, but just a harp on your point little bit about antidote and I did Samatha he's basically he's got fourteen touchdowns through six games so far this this year, it's puts them on pace for thirty seven touchdown passes this season who knows if he'll keep that up, but that will break his own franchise record for seasons, a single season passing touchdowns and. You know, I mean that says a lot all. He also surpassed bloomer assize in this last Sunday for. You know, passing yards as career patching bangle so quickly, Andrew and guts, mother calls before we do your prediction for Sunday. Fine at of more of. The horn, twenty one. I'm going man. I think what you stand up hopefully. All right, cool. Not play. Yeah. Well, thanks, Andrew. Will will get you off the air, but pre she ate, you call appreciate the comments in, you know, hopefully the next game you go to will be there will be a little bit better results. We've missed. We missed a couple of calls. I apologize if I missed your call, their callback will get here. Like I said, we wanna make this pretty listener heavy. We do have one going on any additional thoughts about Andy, Dalton, John with what Andrews had to say they're four hundred yards in four touchdowns enough to get past the home, so I'll take it, but do you think that's probably mom's gonna get as well, just two of the worst defenses in the NFL and on a Sunday night stage. If he does that, I think he'll answer or at least snuff out a lot of narratives because this is gonna be a shoe in might have a lot of long drives. But in the end it's going to be probably around seven hundred total guards of offense between two teams. So that's gonna be the forest at all really needs yet. Fortunately, I couldn't watch the the patriots chiefs game. And I, you know, luckily I was doing something kind of unique in fund myself Sunday night. But. It was. It was that score. We kind of my brother and I were together my, you know, we kinda kept her the score. Oh my God, this is crazy. You know, this is a obviously this, this, this has all the makings of shootout going forward. The Bengals deep passing defense is one of the worst league in the chiefs defense leave is the worse than league. So the, you know, that's Andy, Dalton, seventy Goodyear Petra Mahomes as having an outstanding year. So a lot to talk about their, we're gonna get to that. Just a second. We've got another call on the OBI line from our good friend Terrell Terrell. How are you sir? In their value. Obame of the visor. Feel like. Koshin as banks. And most things I think. While from days. That. In of. A marker dangling trae route of Marcus. Why? Why is that. Browne trading the women back like employers. Trent richardson. Yeah. Yeah, around Easter, that's. Sorry. Or like a straw or straw to attack. Well, it's, it's. It's not the craziest idea in the world. Get you off the air Terrell. I know my buddy John here is a is a is a good film guy draft guys. We'll talk about your question off the appreciates Colin in my friend. John, you know, I again, we're, I think we're giving up on John Ross a little too early in my opinion. Now, I think if we're talking this point next year early in the season before the trade deadline in John Ross still has yet to make an impact, then I think that's a viable conversation. I think we need to give him, you know, a skit, a full games, full your schedule lease to kinda see. And you know a year later trading a number nine overall pick for mid round pick. I don't know if that makes sense. It who knows if there's even demand out there at the at this point for him. So that's one thing. I do think drill has valid points with guard tackle tight end linebacker being the team's biggest needs your thoughts on both of his. Areas you brought up just have this conversation two weeks ago, feel like it. I get he he's is injury. Prone e e can't help. You may not be the extent, but you know, he, he runs, he pulls a muscle. He's out for to get it still twenty two years twenty two twenty two twenty three. His only has value to the often given time. We'd sad scars Scott contain on about that. Yeah, but definitely right. Tackle right guard any linebacker. Complaining space, definite needs for the Bengals in Dharma still need for the Bengals in if they give it of him. First, second or third on pick the odds of finding the guy who can do what he does when he's on the field, it's minimal. So I don't agree with it, but because of how much needed he is in the offense because the Miami game, I think it was noticeable in. I think it coulda had a love more success against the Steelers in the past with Russell field. So give him time like you're to not open to it, especially in a year where you've already. For cross going to be gone for a long time. You saw what Cody core did when John Ross wasn't on the field, Josh Malone who I was really big on as done nothing. It's basically the Tyler boy, eight rain show. So I think both yourself in our good friend, Joe good berry of showing some things on Twitter and whatnot to see to show at least what he does is a decoy when he brings his decoy on the field because of his speed. So I think he's still gotta say, hey, you know the Bengals if you say, if you if you match up AJ green Tyler Boyd John Ross as a trio wide receivers against much of the league. I think that's a top three top five trio in terms of overall talent in everything in this league. So I think they gotta leave that alone, especially with the I for injury, Croft injury in all of that. I, I totally agree with Terrell's assessment of needs, you know? And I, I wrote this in a postal cincy junk. I think. Man, you know that middle part of the defense, the linebackers, even some safety help. I mean, there's they still can't cover tight ends. Well, they can't cover Kenyan Drake headed receiving touchdown against him the week prior. They need those athletes in whether it's tweeter safety linebacker like Dion canon or Mike, who is at more barren, does for kind of the Rams. I mean, whether it's getting a guy like that, they need to have someone there. They have Bates but Bates is learning on the fly right now. They're, you know, I just think that. They need some of these guys and some of those types of guys in today's NFL. And I think that it was a it was like anonymous defense coordinators was on record saying today that the monitor defenses more focused on forcing turnovers than limiting yards because of the way the offense of the game as bald. So I understand that you know, every team gives a Blau chunk plays of the middle just just the way that offenses are operated now. But same time you still need to have play makers who can cover lots of ground over the middle of field. And that's something that they don't have. You know, for the longest time, we've been asking for them to get the space players, whether it's linebackers safeties that can cover a lot of ground from number the number from silent silent in. They just haven't been able to get that night in in to add on Israel's point. I also think that another player might be needed because during Williston shown really anything in frizz on that same Hubbard has been in the slash place easily show that he can produce pressure as well because. Sometimes it's, it's just car Lawson in Carlos still doing it all, and there's no one really binding forcing consistent pressure. I think Willis is kind of on the OSCE because he has dealer interest, but he hasn't really shown this is progress has richer. That was another guy I was excited about. You know, kinda reminds me back in gush what was a twenty twelve on the Bengals selected both Devon steel and brain Thompson thought, both those guys would be, you know, really good players for this Bengals defense in Thomson was okay. It is peak still. God bless him for everything. He's been through everything. I mean, I can understand why football took maybe back seat at times, but you know, you kinda hope that being a big what is the big ten defensive player of the year? At some point, say you kinda figured he had he had a bright future, but it is what it is. Where we've, we got a lot of questions. I apologize if we did get to everybody. We had other calls that we could get to. If you have some will continue to try and take some as we close up here. We're gonna. We're gonna talk about the chiefs to just a second. I do wanna talk about this though. John was a question we received on Twitter at Bengals OB from our good friend, Carlos Andre. It's there's two things. The Carlos Andre brought up. Of course, it's hashtag fire, Marvin time. He wants to get that to to go by role. We talked about Marvin quite a bit on this episode, but it's also out take time friend out, take Cody core dropped a ball that I mean, you can hand you yet. I don't think you could hand the ball off in a more perfect spot than the ball he dropped on third law. Yeah. I mean, inside it was lofted up nice right between the numbers in just absolutely drops it. Then there's another one tougher catch contested guide, head drops when it would have been another first down the the big one. Third down one that was, I mean, how stabs your Ganic and. I mean, you don't wanna crucify the guy because he's had limited opportunities as it is. So I mean. Difficult, but at the same time, big game, big situation. You know your numbers going to be called it simply because John Ross is out, you gotta step up, right? So now you have Tyler right for her Tyler Kroft her cores core in milona been ineffective. Now there's a lot of calling for out in Tate. Carlos Andre says. Do you think should have activated tape? One could argue easy prepared but come on worse than core who didn't catch a pass for almost two years. Abedi isn't kept him for reason. You like is size. I don't know. Yeah, and the rats, the Koran like on tape may not be refined as route running, but I have confidence that take at least box defenders at that point. It was like a simple post rattle over the Miho. Yeah, dead slow like it's not to twenty yards like a big play, like as a as a catch. The Tate for a statement is sleep in running for the Knox or on him. You know, that's a play that even I would expect him to make an assist, like if he can't get activated record who who's on the team mainly for special teams. But if he if if he's like as bad as they say in practice, like I kinda scared me, obviously, this avenue that we've been down before with young players on their Marvin Lewis who may be aren't as bad, like not in practice as the narrative may seem to be, but it's just it's just that you know. With Ross injured with struggles core that just haven't heard anything about details at all in practice in it is just hard to predict that changing in. So it happened because like with any more loose, Susan's just impossible to foretell what he's going to do in how his house going to build a team week to week just just from what we see in the past. But yeah, I definitely think that take, you know, he at this point, if Ross still unhealthy with accord showed at the very least Malone's time to get the targets. And if again, if he doesn't do well, then the app to turn the tape at that point because you have some receivers reasoning will use a along. So if I won cop replacement. Yeah. And you know, core was one of those guys height, weight, speed, you liked? You know, he didn't have a lot of college production, but you like what he put out there. He's a special teams guy that Marvin Lewis always covets at the back end of running back in wide receiver group. So that's why he made the team out in Tate still raw, but I would not. Surprised, especially if across remains out for Lyle. Obviously I for on our. Maybe John Ross missing wartime. I would not be surprised as season goes on. If you start seeing taping on the active list, I just now whether that means he's going to get a lot of passes way or whatever and take advantage of those opportunities. I don't know. But. I would not be surprised if down the road, especially with injuries and all that stuff. If outing Tate goes forward, we have a another listener question at segues nicely into the chiefs previ-. Thank you all for your calls, your texts, your comments in the YouTube chat, live YouTube Chet in Twitter, all of that and all of the kind comments that you always give us on this program. This is the origin black insider Bengals podcast, a part of Espy nations, national network where probably be part of that. You can get this program on itunes, you can get it on YouTube. You could get it on since he juggled dot com salsa. Also vailable on art nineteen. We're not on soundcloud anymore, but our Mateen in we're on, Stitcher were on Google play. I mentioned, I tunes and so number of different mediums check us out and we won't want you. If you're able to join us live, we have a live YouTube stream every week to show that is available honor. You. Two channels subscribe and get alerted to that, or we're on since juggle dot com every week as well. So you can check that out. We appreciate all the support. Obviously, there's been a lot of excitement with in. Some new faces around these parts because of what the Bengals have done this year as opposed to other years. And it's also good to hear from in see some of the old faces from longtime ago from the beginning of this program, showing up both on the phone lines, what hopefully we can talk about a win next week. He's drawn sharing on me at the Zanna get this program, how you can thanks for all of your support. Get all of the opinions, news analysis, updates in everything since jumbled up calm, and we'll see. We'll see next week and hopefully we're talking about a win day vogues. They're ready to tell at chief of the verge. I has podcast every week called the verge Hass. My friends, Paul Miller, indeed bone. We've got a rotating cast of characters from our entire site, which is about technology, how it impacts culture and how that is all a big cycle that causes us to have a wide variety of feelings that you can listen to. 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Bengals John Marvin Lewis John Ross chiefs NFL Twitter Andrew Siler Terrell Terrell football Carlos Andre Tate Jayco Andy YouTube Cody Josh Malone Dalton Trent richardson
Listener Questions: Depth charges, Dre's performance and Steel City drama queens

Cincy Jungle

20:41 min | 3 years ago

Listener Questions: Depth charges, Dre's performance and Steel City drama queens

"Uh-huh. We've got a ton of questions coming up here that have come down the pike, and I'm going to try and blend some of them together. This is a text from our good friend Tyrrell. He's east called the program a couple of times and it's good to hear from him. He texted in a little bit ago. Basically, it was. It was kind of a question a comment, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna add something else that I've been asked a lot about this week onto this. He says, he's very happy. He says, I just love how the first and second the first second. Third guys are stepping up in Marvin are playing talent over some of the band's. I think he's talking not only about the draft picks this year, but he's also talking about, you know, the deaths in terms of I, I drink second second-string third-string. So talk about that. But I also wanna talk on the flip side. There's been some kind of polarity in terms of John Ross. He, you know, nice, nice game, I guess in the first. First week ahead of touchdown, catch this weekend, another catch, but he had a carry for minus yards. You know, he don't still don't seem to be on the same page in terms of routes and all of that. They can't connect on a regular basis. Is this still hate. Talk about the death, but also talking about in terms of Ross, is this, hey, this is still essentially his rookie year. Let's be patients, or is this like, hey drops and all that stuff that might be part of his game. Over starters link the reason why the angles suffered so much. Because drag classes in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen flat out weren't good. So there's complaints about, you know, they're playing that's of young guys. Young guys weren't exactly when came out on sixteen class the entire class, sands Cody court guest looks really good for what they do. Twenty seventeen is looking at same way and now Tony eighteen look the same way too. So the talent isn't is the younger part of the roster in that's basically was playing. That's the different mentality in the past. Now they moved down for veterans, but they're definitely more line on young guys because the young guys are finally starting to step up in there. Actually good players not like the the other crap. That drafted from fourteen to twenty fifteen in with Ross as part of the twice him in class. I think he still, he still, he still not all the way there. I guess in terms of trusting his hands as he had those drop is using training camp, be strategies in preseason. And now he's having just some lack of. Overall confidence in just catch with his hands and he hasn't gotten the most cleanest targets from Dalton on some of those slate routes and whatnot. But I still think that he's just not all the way there in terms of his confidence level in terms of his Italian in things like that. His really have a lot of targets in the first place because of how will green void in in their in their titans play so far. So even even without Ross, the offense is still moving roads. I think that's a good reason to kinda still buy into the offense because Ross hasn't produced. They still have put up, you know, almost sixty points or over sixty points of in the first game. So the Rossi's are so concerning because they do exist a still having some issues with hands, but it's a long season. And you know, he's definitely a better place right now. It was last year. Let's pause. Yon, I think I think as the season progressed, this is still a young team in a lot of different areas. You know, I think they intend weeded act. You know, they shed a lot of veteran guys, this offseason Chris acre, Georgia loca Brandon will still. The list goes on and on and to gate to give way for. Say Michael Johnson, but Michael Johnson back, but the gave the gave the chance to in luckily unfortunately, it was because of an injury mostly to Michael Johnson. But Sam Hubbard community played very well had far more snaps, Thursday night. He played well. So you got you gotta like you gotta like the death, especially wide receiver, Ross Ross withstanding, notwithstanding because he's got the potential, but Tyler Boyd is stepping up big time aged green. The fumbles are really bothering me, but he's got four touchdowns in two games. So whatever. You know, it's like, okay, so you gotta like some of the death in in some areas on his team that may be lacked a little bit of it last year or if they had it, it didn't really always come to the surface. You gotta like that a little bit. Another one. That's just kind of a general question that we've been talking about. I meant to talk talk about this in the opener and I don't think we did and if we did, I'm sorry, it's been a long week. I am dog tire, but I wanna I wanna talk about the relishing in the Steelers drama. I don't think we really talk too much about it. 'cause we got onto the Mike Mitchell thing. We got some case. You haven't noticed the Steelers are zero one in one very, very easily could have been a one-two with a loss to the Browns and the opening week, and. They lose this week to the Kansas City Chiefs defense really let them down. Antonio Brown has been a drama Queen, especially since this loss against the chiefs on Sunday, not only kind of making some obscure tweets and kind of pounding that day on Sunday, but did not show up to something on Tuesday. He didn't show up to film workouts or whatever. Then you've got the Levy on bell drama and the offense of Wyman. Talking about that. My my question here is of course I think as as Bengals fans worse it you're gone. Yeah, we gotta get. Finally, they get the case to the drama, right? But we've seen the Bengals have those problems even though they have talent and either they get to the playoffs and they fail or they have high expectations in they fail, you know, member the Adam Jones, all that kind of stuff. Are the Steelers? I mean, I, I would guess they are better well equipped to handle this stuff in to be successful, but even for them and their organization is this too much for them to handle. I'm sitting here imports. The the Kermit. Live action firma cornets you. It spends acid because I think something that a lot of things fans, no, but maybe the Mashal perspective knows Mike Tomlin's not the greatest amazing is talent, and we've seen that from guys in his early years to know with with the drug charges will not. Now he's out partying, Florida. You know, from the team with his name in lights in the club in Tony Brown's, threatening reporters, not amount know causing trouble on Twitter, not Shuna beatings. Ben is still Ben is counted. The flicking blame the offense. Coordinator is under fire. They're winless. They're facing a Tampa Bay Buccaneers team. That's lighting, the world on fire it. It's all great. And we have seen in the past that they have been able to overcome some stuff as the season goes on because they are talented team in for the most part, they have a solid coaching staff around Tomlin to kind of compensate for his lack issues. But this was a year that you know the more knowledgeable. People predicted that we would see regression from the Steelers and were not someplace aggression will take multiple avenues. Sometimes this happens to be your team falls apart from multiple cancer cells, infecting everybody else, and you have a host body. Mike Tomlin is not able to counteract with with any proper medicine. So yeah, the Bengals of old they would have these issues that obviously Morgan loses enacted more cultural change. They have some on the field issues of birth, but completely besides the point from these specific issues, but it's great in this is about as good of start that you can hope if you aren't famous. We are. Yeah. I mean, you look at. Gosh, let's go. Let's go back to the millennium the turn of the millennium to two thousand. Right? That's one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen. Sixteen seventeen eighteen years right in not including what's happened so far. So twenty two thousand three two thousand two point. Seventeen. Excuse me. The Steelers have not made the playoffs not made the playoffs in a span of eighteen years one two three four five six times. So if they've been in their twelve of eighteen times and guess what. Only one time of those six. They have a losing record. They were six, ten, two thousand. There were nine and seven and didn't make it two thousand six eight, Nate and didn't make it by the way the knock the Bengals out of the playoffs that year on overtime. A, I think it was in overtime, miss by shamed ram or something like that. Two thousand nine didn't make it. They were nine and seven. Thirteen twelve and thirteen eight. So even when they're not making the playoffs sale right there. That's with cower Tomlin they, I despise. Almost literally everything about that franchise in their fan base, but I respect the hell out of what they do in how they win. They win win when big games and they went today, their physical, they win. So that's why I think we can see here early in the season go bagels or to right and the Steelers are winless in a mess. How many times have we seen do lateness season. They put a run together, get guys back in all of a sudden, you know, things are different. We've seen at a ton of times. I mean, I can go back to the five season where the Steelers weren't even going to make the playoffs. They had a late run them, obviously the Bengals face them, they injure Carson's ni, blah, blah, blah. They go on win the Super Bowl that year. I mean, so. I wouldn't count him. I guess the point is don't count them out, be happy about it right now. It doesn't look great for them right now. I think you know some of their best players are disgruntled in and other other good players are disgruntled at their best players. So they're, they're kind of mess right now, but don't be surprised if about midseason the figure stuff out and they go on a little run, maybe even at the Bengals expensive. Fortunately, because that's what they do that that's the Steelers in. That's what they do. So interesting stuff going on with the Steelers. We're gonna get outta here in just a second John. We had just let's let's go with maybe maybe to at least one more quick tax Sam, Texas us saying huge fan of the program takes him. Texaco couple of questions, but we already talked about one of them. So let's talk about he wanted to know about Drake, her Patrick's place so far. I kind of mentioned it as a roller coaster who's been some good, some bad, some bad calls against him. I saw a dropped interception last Thursday that could've again, I believe that led to a raven score so that changed the game of it. I think at this point Dray his a number two corner. He's pretty good at it, and that's the ceiling because he's gonna give some frustrating stuff, but he's got the height. He's got the wink. He's disrupt he you could tell. He annoys receivers, you know that you noise because he's, he gets his long arms in there and jams. You could tell annoys them, but there are times where he just like an inch away from big play or I think we mentioned last year at the end part last year. He was basically the most defensive player of the NFL from twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen. So there's good and there's bad and tell you just by the way, there is some very good if you go on Twitter, he he had a very cool pre-game thing on on Thursday football where he was at a retirement home dancing to some old school snoop in Dr Drey with some ninety five year old ladies very, very cool. And that's the kind of Steffi gotta love. But as a player ups and downs your take on it, you're that you're the film guy, your your take on him so far in. Two weeks in the season attorneys, right? Like I don't know why, like he's quote, unquote number two corner, but leave him on one side. So teams, if they have a brain mesh of their best receiver who can just destroy among any any kind of route where dress turn his turns back the ball, he's very susceptible to giving a catch because you just has absolutely. I mean zero ball skills. The man cannot catch him ball. That's why the difference back. But the, there's a certain definite difference between Jackson in terms of feeling the route, staying overseers hit bought it and feeling. You know, when that pass is gonna come in at the top of that route in Jackson's able to turn his head around mega plan ball, Dray just kinda panics focuses on the receiver, and then he puts hands too late. And that's exactly what happened with touch. It was quote unquote, great coverage, but it was also a pervy example of horrendous all skills. So he was always in the corner who is best that you know, facing the ball time. But he's also extremely suspect, double moves off coverage. So it's like the, you know, what is the lesser to each year. So he who makes hill has good place in terms of staying with Ernie arouses long as he can turn his head and also have some biting double news and maybe some some unfortunate Hanes. He plays in that one dropped interceptions. He interfered with John with the receiver more than interviewed on the one that he got called pass interference, still it. He's such inconsistent in down player that you take the go with the bad in hope that the the team doesn't have the best receiver against him for most of the game. Because again, he doesn't fall wound Jackson's ball around the top cornerback. Jerry Dray is there on the left side of the defense. He goes up against us up against the dark, has Denard has had a pretty nice start to the season. He's had a couple of of issues in terms of some place being made on him. But I thought he played pretty decent last week in, you know, he's been. He's been doing doing some stuff. Guys getting calls and getting all kinds of stuff. Enforcing we're just we're just running real long. We started a little later than we wanted in running long hair, so we gotta get outta here. I'm just gonna get out of here with one final question that will do our final thoughts. Get out of your John getting kinda spin on this. This was from somebody North Dakota says day from North Dakota, and it goes back to something I said earlier in the show about Andy, Dalton in his thirty one touchdowns nine interceptions under Bill laser. Basically this this texture said, what do you think about being third touchdown passes in the last sixteen gains also very high in quarterback rating. Averaging three touchdowns game. So far in two games, your thoughts on his play, not only under laser we talked to. We talked a little bit about the. Is he is this sustainable is this is this Dalton in laser relationship is at Golding something kinda like what he knew had words sustainable. And for the most part, he is going to be lights out for the majority of the or should we still expect those Andy games, those bad, Dalton games or battery begins going forward, even though he seems to be very comfortable in this system? Yes, I just don't know the moment because we can expect as bed games for him against common opponents of like we mentioned earlier that whole narrative up silence head, and now it's against that are against uncommon punts of worry about. But again, launching state that you don't play that much, you know, they don't. There aren't as prepare fusilade individual opponent. So it was just who he plays that was really indicative of how he was going to play the now. We don't really have that metric support. Enough. So having played on, we tweet basis is just really depends on if the protection stands up. Laser continues doing what he's doing. What he's doing is is something great in something that we saw from Hugh so isn't sustainable point where he will keep on his pace, throw for only like eighty interceptions for touchdowns. No, I think he'll he'll be on slightly lesser pace than what he was going to finish within twenty fifteen. And that was still with very high has rain. Also very high adjusted yards for tempts long. He's not getting sax on those demons in terms of his internal clock won't be shoe. Longest receivers are getting separation quickly where can get the ball out that that will still be good thing to do. As long as receivers don't know, drop dead from injuries. Everything's going right. And as longest thing stay the same. I don't see drastically drop in terms of the fishing, see, but again, the seasons, long teams will adjust. Maybe the ravens will come back with the different game planning. And getting more rattled early on. So it's it is, I guess, just laying seat but elected language things or say in in in terms of Dalton laser, there's, there's been good. There's been mostly very good, but there's been some. What I mean by that is. Slow start against Indy. Then you kinda say, if you wanna call second half adjustments or whatever. Some nice nice things there. Yes. Defensive touchdown, basically is the game, but started playing better in the second half opposite deal on Thursday night off to a red hot start, and then kinda crawl into a shell on the second half which allowed the ravens to to come back a bit. So that worries me a little bit. But I like the dispersal of the passes. You know, I mean, he hit Zometa Kroft anti-fur last week he hid geo. He hit Joe mixing. He hit Tyler boy aged greenie, John Ross last week. I mean a lot. I think nine guys caught passes last week which was against the ravens, which was awesome. A dirt dispersable pretty well on the first week as well. So I like that. So yes, aged green had his three touchdown catches, but it's not. Not, you know, fifteen catches for, it's not all AJ aging aging. There's there's other stuff and other contributors going on, and I liked that AJ yes is the focal point of this offense in passing. Offense should go through him, but obviously they've got I for back and kind of pitch count. You've got some other talented guys, boy stepping up big time. So you gotta kinda like a lot of what's what's kinda going on there and a lot of the the dispersal of passes going on there. So that's going to do it in terms of listener questions. Tonight, we appreciate all that you can get in touch with this program of live every week via YouTube on the on the chat. We were live every week. You can also get us in the cincy juggled chat or on our orange black insider phone line text or call. We didn't take we just text, but we appreciate it. We're kinda short on time in, we appreciate all the questions. You can also get this program tune soundcloud. YouTube Stitcher in the Google play app. In all of our stuff is on cincy juggled dot com. We appreciate all the support all of this description.

John Ross Steelers Dalton Bengals Mike Tomlin Jerry Dray Twitter ravens Tony Brown Jackson Sam Hubbard chiefs Ross Ross Tyrrell Marvin YouTube Andy Michael Johnson Antonio Brown Florida
I Am Mother (2019) | Grant Sputore

The Qwipster Film Review Podcast

09:32 min | 2 years ago

I Am Mother (2019) | Grant Sputore

"Hi. Welcome to the quick, Stor film, review podcast. My name is Vince, Leo. I'm the author of the film review website, quips, stir dot net bite. You to check out over four thousand of my written reviews. I've been doing film reviews since nineteen Ninety-six and courage to check them all out at my website, quick, stir dot net. Q W, I S, T E, R dot net. While you there. I do. Also, encourage you to check out my other podcast called around the world in eighties movies covering, of course, films of the nineteen eighties, including movies that influence the film. I'm going to be reviewing today on this podcast. Today's film is called. I am it's a movie that play that Sundance earlier in the year, twenty nineteen and is now currently streaming on Netflix. It's a science fiction, film that has elements of, I guess, many other Sean res-, but primarily, it's a science fiction film. It is not rated, but I would probably rated PG. Thirteen it does have violence and brief instance of strong language the run time is an hour and fifty three minutes. Clara regard is the main star. Hilary swank also appears in the supporting role. Rose Byrne provides her voice here, Luke hawker provides his body. The director is grants Batori, and the screenplay credited to Michael Lloyd. Green? I am mother is pretty thoughtful very taught science fiction thriller comes from director grants, Batori, who along with his screenwriter, Michael Lloyd, green concocted, this very futuristic tale with the more modest budget in mind, given that this would be their first produced film, the setting is limited primarily, to a single location with a tiny selection of actors, but the technical specs and the feel of the scope of IM other still remains very large given the commitment to excellent technical design, especially in the sleek and very fluid. Look of mother and believable Seth work Clara regard plays a young teenager, that we only hear referred to as daughter by Ma. Mother mother has this Android body played in the reportedly very heavy about ninety five pounds, practical effects, suit by Luke hawker, who would also act? He recited the lines by mother that would eventually be voiced over in post mother has a very soothing woman's voice mothers finished voice, as mentioned provided by rose Byrne. We soon come to learn that mother is an artificial intelligence robot that works within this facility that is raising children in order to learn how to properly nurture them to adulthood for the purpose of one day, perhaps repopulating, a contaminated earth lies outside of their safe enclosure in this post apocalyptic tale daughter, though, for now is the only living human within the facility. Although mother says that her family, which is this collection of thousands of human embryos that are currently being kept on tap, they can be born and raised using this quick station technology that we see daughter produced from when the time comes so much more to the. Story than that, but this is a movie that is built on reveals that I will not give and that's especially crucial. If you want to enjoy the movie, primarily, the first time that you see it, as with many science fiction films, much of the story within mother recipe on this underlying social commentary, that's meant as a mirror reflection on things going on within our own society. In this tale. The opposite of what's going on today in the world of artificial intelligence takes place in front of our eyes in this film, just as we in real life or concerned about how to develop and train us artificial intelligence to make for a benefit to society trying to erase off laws within the artificial intelligence, this story kind of flips that on its end makes artificial intelligence the determinant of the kind of humans that need research and development before we are released into the world to populated again, this also delves into what it takes to be a good parent. We try to train our children to be better selves, while also trying to learn to be better. Her parents. Although unlike mother, we don't get to perform any do overs with our own children. We have to do our best to get things right. The first time around with technology and artificial intelligence becoming more and more useful in helping us in our day-to-day tasks. I guess it's only a matter of time before that technology is used to provide much of the Karen education, that our children may need in order for them to become their best selves or so we think as I mentioned in my cast list. And if you take a look at least one of the posters, there's a point where we're going to meet someone else into this initial two part, story, two hander, and that someone is played by Hilary swank as this is a film, that is decidedly resting on reveals to propel much of the suspense within its story. I will say no more about how and why her character gets involved other than to pay the directors. Batori respect for the way that the film is able to break out in its tone to encompass a variety of different genres. And also in the way that the perspectives are constantly shifting to the point where we wonder. How the conflicts that emerged will ultimately resolve and whether we can feel any comfort in any of the directions, things could potentially go from there. Now aspects of mother will remind you of other films. In the John Ross, most notably two thousand one space odyssey right off the bat in its questioning of whether leaving our lives in the hands of artificial intelligence is a scary thing. It's probably Clinton stepmother's face contains an element. That is very reminiscent of how a more recent film to which I am other sometime similar to I feel as ten Cloverfield lane in which people are stuck in a bunker fearing that the world is contaminated outside, never quite knowing, whether that threat is real. Or they're in more imminent danger from what happens in the safe haven that they seem to be trapped within there are shades of the films of really Scott and James Cameron that touch upon artificial intelligence, specifically blade runner, the Terminator alien and aliens, those end up making it into the mix, although not necessarily in the most obvious ways that. You would expect it takes these question on, whether sentient artificial intelligence power structure can be protective, or destructive force, really into the greatest of areas. Finally, some players of the popular console and PC game portal are going to notice several similarities between the characters and events that occur within I m mother and the components within the game itself now, taking Terminator alien into account, those two examples show, how much can be done with very modest budget, which I am mother. Most certainly uses judiciously in the best of ways as well. Strong affects work here from weta workshop both in terms of the practical effects of mother and the elements that come into play as well. They've blend very seamlessly together, especially in the way that mothers, look and movement, considered both. It's comforting qualities the voice in the instructed demeanor. But also there's an intimidation there in terms of mothers size and ability to be swift. When need be while I mother, never quite. Achieves the lasting heights of its revolutionary sources of inspiration within science fiction films. I do think that it remains a well done of Aleutian of these stories competently told it's very well acted and then very nicely thought out in a suspenseful and provocative way by the end of IM other, I think we end up questioning how we can make the perfect eight I if we as humans as the creators are inherently flawed just as we the creators, teachers of our children are also flawed if a source of artificial intelligence where ever exist on this notion of the betterment of humanity as a species, how would it proceed to make an imperfect world run by imperfect humans a perfect place where we need? No longer fear. Our worst impulses in instincts, I am mother pushes this question to the limit within its story with this answer. That is both thoughtfully philosophical and shockingly terrifying to consider I really enjoyed I am mother enough to give it three stars out of four three. Ars on my scale means I do think that this is worth recommending for people who, like this kind of movie if you're a big fan of science fiction films. Certainly, you're gonna get a lot of mileage out of I m mother. And if you really enjoy those movies that I mentioned, to, which it owes inspiration, Terminator blade runner alien aliens. These are the movies that I grew up on as well as the filmmakers here. There are a lot of things too like here as well a very strong three stars. I think if I watch it again, perhaps, I might even kick it up to three and a half stars if it holds up for right now this is one of those borderline calls. So I'm gonna give it the lowest of the two grades that I wanted to give it and give it a three star rating for now. It's on Netflix. So at the very least you should give it a try. If you already subscribed to the service. I do think that for a lot of people, it's going to be worth the watch thanks. Everyone listening hope that you enjoy this review. If you have your own thoughts on mother, and you want to express them to me, you can find my contact information on my website that quick, stir dot net. Q W, P, S, T, E, R dot net until next time off. You enjoy your time. Anytime you get to go to the movies, or you're just catching a really intense, and thought provoking, film, that is streaming to your home on a streaming service like this one.

Hilary swank Rose Byrne Netflix director Luke hawker Clara Vince Sean res Michael Lloyd Sundance Karen education Leo Batori Batori Ma Clinton John Ross
OBI: Listener Questions Live (7/24)

Cincy Jungle

35:09 min | 1 year ago

OBI: Listener Questions Live (7/24)

"Take. It's listener questions live on the orange black insider bengals podcast. It's been a little while since we've done this episode, but we are back answering your questions. The questions burning holes in your minds about the Cincinnati bengals. We will give our quote unquote. And commentary on what we feel are the best answers to give you all for the questions about the Cincinnati. Bengals that you may have as they are gearing up for training camp, I. Am Costanza joined his always by John Sheeran John. How you doing buddy, it's been. It's been a couple of days since I've seen you, but you're still looking great. My friend Amanda Miss Yes yeah. It's opening day in Cincinnati and I spent it hassling with Hiccup of delivering my router to my apartment that I have not moved in yet so took an hour of my day being UDF shake, so netted out like a net positive I would say. Okay well. Hopefully you got that sorted out I've had my own adventures with. Fedex recently in the form of Wow, there's a specific sporting apparel company that I've had a little trouble with getting some packages. It's been a little. But a lengthy before I got my some of my packages, I'm still waiting on one but I know there's the Cova crisis I know there's a lot going on, so I'm being trying to be patient, but like you John. If I've had some frustrations there, but we will be getting to your questions. We've already got a few teed up. Given to us on twitter. You can get those to us whether it's at. BENGALS OB at John Double Underscore Sharon at CJ. Anthony see you. I will be monitoring those we have live chats going in the youtube and facebook accounts whether it's the Ob Youtube or the cincy junk will facebook accounts will be getting those. we have a call and text line, nine, four, nine, five, four, two, six, two, four, one, so get those over to us in. Get on the air. We have comments thread on Cincy jungle. There is a post there that you can leave questions if that's the way to do it. We also have an email. Account the OB. INSIDER DOT COM that will be monitoring, so get us. Those questions will get to as many as we can will be. Be Here for about twenty minutes or so and get to as many as possible so John I guess we will start. Let's start with our friend. The Bangle at the bangle four on twitter. He's the guy by the way that is has started a fantasy football league. Where in the winnings are are going to Joe Boroughs Hunger Relief Fund, so if you have some questions about that, you want to get involved in. Maybe do some things that are charitable. Charitable at the Bengal and the number four on twitter. Why is it? The bengals don't do videos like other teams do in terms of hyping their fans showing all the rookies coming into the building, and do you think we get some sort of video series on training camp slimmer to the way the reds did truth be told? John did not see the reds video per se as we sit here today. Kind of had some things going on I will. Will say this Cincinnati bengals this off season have seemingly stepped up their social media game in general Now where it was prior to this off-season was Yikes I shouldn't talk. I'm not the biggest social media Guy Myself, but I will say they've made vast improvements. They have done some hyper videos but I still think they're a little behind the curve as opposed to some other NFL teams. Wouldn't you say so is? Is this question referring to like? Filming Joe Borough Walking in the stadium. after-effects everything like putting on twitter. I, think that's part of it just just I. Think a lot of consistent. You know maybe him putting on the helmet in or like you know you've seen the one where he's in the garb, and then he puts on the helmet, and it turns into bengals. Someone created that one. That was pretty cool. you know I think what he's saying is. This is a very exciting off-season. There really isn't a lot for a lot of people to do. Because they're either out of work for load all that kind of stuff, so they may be paying more attention to this kind of stuff, and it's just easy to criticize the Bengals so. I think that's maybe word stemming from I WANNA put words in his mouth, but maybe I guess just more on a consistent basis rather than just right after the draft and just showing up to drainage. Right I think. Fans want anything right now. Because training camp isn't going to start for actual training camp like the practice and stuff slugger to start until mid August so players are just now reporting I think. Fans want anything that they get right now. Though like you said last year, we had a schedule released being displayed by the mascot who Dave Sterling around Cincinnati scooter on our Brazier Yeah. Yeah So. The bengals are fifteen years behind on basically everything so. It is kind of goes with that territory, so they're catching up and I think. We all want some things change in that regard but I. May. Maybe we get something now. That is like a rookie. That's marketable in ways that they haven't had a long time, so does everyone Berisha's of the have ten cameras on him and they'll release video i. don't know I am not not the expert to comments on this. Though I would I would assume that you know once. These guys are a practice particularly. When you have a number, one overall pick will be seeing a lot more hype videos, but. Hey give give the people what they want. I guess is is what the bengals saying. Where do you WANNA go next? Jesse Ambler facebook comment section sexists tell me to pull Paul. Shirt I can only take off the shirt. I can't actually pull on the layer so unfortunate for that both let's stick with the The Youtube comment section here Chad Hellier from facebook is asking what positions the bengals go. Pick up after waivers or guests when they're eligible to pick up. Somebody from waivers that depends on what the roster looks like. When that happens right now, they have to cut down a handful of guys to get to the proposed eighty man roster limit another. Another eighty four injuries will happen in training camp monitor ones hopefully at at the most They're really deep right now at office line, Defensive Line and linebackers, just in the sense of just general bodies, the only have five safety's seven running backs think eight or nine wide receiver so depend on who gets hurt. That's of what happened last year. When a lot of running backs went down, they ended up signing some p Ryan I. Think Leroy Reynolds off of waivers at linebacker so depending on how this increase look when that time comes specifically. Pertaining to how injuries kind of affect those groups, but you know I think in general you like the more offensive line town, but I think they're going to wait and see how those guys progressed at least in the early parts of training camp. There was an another question that we received that kind of piggybacks off that, so we'll kind of double team this question. Let's say somehow we ate decided to add an offensive line via free agency. I know I know we won't. which would you rather guys go? Sign the best offensive guard on the markets, the best right tackle and cut heart signed the best left tackle moved to. To the right and still cut heart, while sounds like cutting heart is what loopy really wants at on twitter at VP thirty one. I think a lot of people right now are just kind of disenchanted with bobby heart or Robbie Fart as John. Affectionately calls him in light of a lot of different reasons, not just on field play. There are a lot of things to. Not. The bobbies kept fans at arm's length this off season to put it nicely so and he's not keeping defenders at an arm's length suited their those good so. You know kind of playing into the last question and Luca here. What would you say is the best route for the Bengals? Get the best offensive guard and leave the tackle situation alone or get a tackling either move Jonah, or you know. Get a right tackle in and Joan at left, tackle and supplant the right, tackle spot or leave it as it is list both physicians. I think you're confident. Just rolling out, Joanna left tackle. See what happens this year. You have a lot invested in him to see what happens. You have to unknowns really a guard. You have someone you think is GonNa Progress Michael Jordan so many things going to revitalize his career. Xavier Sufi low. In you're essentially putting all your all your eggs in the basket of Fred Johnson be now. Bobby heart attack. If that doesn't happen, then you have a genus whole I right tackle in. That's probably where you would look. I rival spots more important than the right art sponsorships value, there's a how it can affect the offenses as a whole unfortunately just now a lot of. Able bodies to pick up at that spot because everyone. More teams looking for right cycles than the than there are teams that have established starters at that position. It's the bat position to have a glaring. They've had a glaring older for the past couple years now I don't WanNa. Move Jonah necessarily WANNA. See how he does add. At one of the two positions that he's been at for his entire career, other left or right tackle, stick them in a spot and see where it goes I wouldn't mind than picking a guard because again. They were town there but I think with the situation right now is if Fred. Johnson doesn't progress the way that we all want him to progress than that's probably That's where they should dress it. I I agree and I think that. For me, there was a point where I'm like you know you may. If you're the Bengals, you may want to look at a a more true left tackle and maybe move Jona with this opposed shorter arms to right, tackle, and and try that out, but my my thing is. The bengals were such a mess on the offensive line, particularly at left tackle. Last year there were so many musical chairs of moving guys in and out. You've now got a rookie quarterback, a franchise quarterback, a young quarterback that while he, one of his best assets is is mental fortitude in his mental strength as a quarterback the last. Last thing you WanNa do is create chaos on the offensive line move guys around all over the place in swap guys out particularly in season and create a potential disastrous situation, so leave Jonah left. Maybe if you think you can find a right, tackle improvement whether that is Fred Johnson whether that is someone that ends up being late. Cut Out. There do that you know. The bengals have collected a lot of guards over the over the past couple of off seasons, and you know I don't if there is one out there, that is a huge huge upgrade than you may want to look at that, but. For me. I think it's Kinda like you know if there's a tackle out there, that seems to be a moderate to large improvement at the rights. Right tackle spot even if that means over Fred Johnson that do that otherwise. Let's try and keep some continuity and see what you got particularly with John at left tackle. Where do you WANNA go next John? I think we got a text from Antonio and we're GONNA. Answer right now. Do you think Geo Bernard will be cut, and are there any updates on potential contract extensions for Joe Mixing and William Jackson Third I guess the the first part I think it's possible. I wouldn't say it's probable or likely in any regard I think they value his years leadership and his ability to supplement snaps mixed takes off I want I want to see what the roles are in this offense. Thank you have a gallic Nixon. Who can be very much. What Clyde there were slur was Elsie Office last year guy who doesn't really do well blocking, but can be slid out wide use as receiver using the in the type. Type of packages that borough, and that often succeeded at last year, and then you have go taking on the rest of the rolls when he can still be uses receivers well, the pro. The I guess the whole Genesis for this is that there's a lot of that running back room and also comes with you know. Is it really smart to extend mixing when you have all this talented worth just smart? Give mixing the money now and in cut. Bernardin money that you save to the pain Nixon. I mean they can survive regardless of what route that they'd take with this but I. Don't think that Bernard's getting cut unless he just proves to be so much worse than what he has in the past use. As, long as we don't see that like a severe regression, though of his abilities in his production, I think he's spots, state safe regardless of what they do with Nixon and with William Jackson. I think plan is for them to have him play out in his contract here in try to earn another Dr Ready to give him A. Another extension until he proves to stay healthy. At least return somewhat that formed, we saw two two thousand seventeen. Short answer for me, do I think geo? Bernard will be cut no contract extension for mixing Yes, contract extension for William Jackson the third, no quickly on Geo this the one thing we talked about on Wednesday's show the eighty player limit. It's going to be interesting to see how it affects a position group like running back to you still go with four running backs at that position group beyond Williams by the way was just interviewed by Co host along with Daddy Owen, Hoji, this week's. That pretty entertaining interview there on the Audio podcast late. But. He's in the mix. You've still got Rodney Anderson. Is he a pop guy of his knee injury and that way? You kind of got some flexibility because of the lower roster count I. Don't I don't know exactly what they're going to be doing. I know Geo. Bernard was captain last year for a reason I think you know he's just a guy that they value in and rightfully so so I don't see him being like you said John It's possible, not probable and my estimation I think mixing gets done William Jackson Falls. Falls in that John Ross camp a bit to me the injuries you've seen the flashes of greatness, not so much from Ross but you've seen the flashes of greatness from William Jackson just can't stay. Healthy just can't be consistent and he's in a contract year, so you've got guys kind of like the J. Green situation, John Ross and now William Jackson there are a lot of guys that have a lot to prove this year to see if they're gonNA stick with the Bengals, long-term, but good question from Antonio there let's. Go with. An email from Sam with the week. Tight end core the bengals have. Why don't they try and do a one year deal with Jordan Reed will Jordan reads been injured a lot. I think he's had a lot of concussion issues. If I'm not mistaken, I haven't done a lot of research on, but I think he's had a lot of injuries, a lot of talent and he's had quite a bit of success in this league, but I think that the injury issue, and unless it's something super affordable, and unless the bengals either show that sample hasn't made the leap. Shrek and others are doing on the back end of that position group. I don't think that this is really a scenario. They WANNA explore I think they're ready to go with CJ on and. drew sample as top guys. A again like the bengals are really need to cut down on players right now. That they're in a position to sign. Sown hasn't played since aged. Green Played Two thousand eighteen. I think with Reid. He's the guy that you want in. The facility s for the least amount of time possible. If you're so desperate that if they're if they're tied in, group looks even worse decimated by injuries. If you so months sampler, stinking it up in the middle of the season, and read is still out there, and he's maintaining this health and he's putting. Putting in training work in whatever if you're in the middle of season and you need to tighten would be the worst said he had to give your call right now and training camp when you're having him practice for a couple weeks before the season begins convenient more opportunity to get her a note, really need them until until you do actually need some type of injection talent I think Stay away, around the course with the guys that you have. I agree, and before we get to the next question. John will choose your just WanNa. Remind everybody that this is the orange black insider. Bengals podcast one of the podcast in the great. Since the jungle podcast channel a top forty I tunes podcast channels so Check out our material. Check out the material. Sorry, if I spit when I speak where. John Cheering mood lights is one of the Co host with Daddy O Hoji. They've a lot of high profile. Bengals guests as on the show recently, so check out that podcast. You can also check out Matt Mix Chalk Talk. He's put up some great film review. Posts on our youtube channel as well that that can be found on Cincy, jungle, dot com, and then you can also get. Orange is the new black podcast from ACM. So check out all those shows how you can and get the shows on itunes stitcher spotify Google. Play Megaphone Youtube Iheartradio all that good stuff. Hey, I'm Ariel. Dome Ross the host of a podcast called reset from VOX DOT COM. Every week we tackle stories that deal with how technology and science are reshaping our lives. You know there's been a lot of scrutiny over the years about the power that these companies have. We tell stories about the new worlds we are now finding ourselves in like going to a music concert video game minecraft since the pandemic has happened, has become the go to hub for these kind of virtual music, festivals and stories about how certain technologies are being used to exert power over US I'm on the other end of the street closer to the cops, and they just start firing directly at me, so they fired tear gas. Are. I tell those stories, because no matter how chaotic things get, we still have a chance to learn and change the systems. We've created for the better. Listen to reset every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe, so you miss a beat. Later nerds. John where we go next, Oh man, it's been like two and a half months since the draft were still getting questions about that Yes moss, Chris Hubbard is asking is Moscow. Get Cut Robert. O'Brien is asking if we would pick up. Why my opinion on him as not change, don't think our opinions on him at changed in unless he becomes something completely different and provides something that the titans that they have now don't have there's just I. Don't see the value him other than just him being Joe. Boroughs personal assistant doesn't make any sense to me. I don't yeah, I don't see it either. Unless again there is something an injury that occurs to somebody significant at that position group and of the guys at the bottom end of that position group. Just do not. Do not show! Enough that they are NFL caliber, tight ends, and oddly enough retirement Jordan a former Washington football club member and Now Moss, who I believe, is also with Washington now as an undrafted free agent, so we're talking about Washington tight ends. Laura, I guess, but yeah I i. don't really see it happening, and by the way Zach Taylor's offense when he when he was helping out in L. A. With McVeigh. That was not a heavily featured. That was not a tight end heavy type of offense afterthoughts unless doors kiddle there. You shouldn't be prioritizing Guinea's nate tenants as possible right, so we've got a call on the line coming in here. Let's see who it is. I. Think I know who it is. Is the orange black insider listener questions live who's? The tyrrell I thought it. Was You buddy how you doing? How you doing. It's been a while. My friend everything going all right. And Save! Everything going all right I know. We trying to keep playing over here you know had he is, but I just wanted to say They they knocked it out the park with your though and. I really believe in job era. I just hope AJ. Do beyond dairy fitzgerald to retire here and those. In a thing about it though is like, and we pay down and makes me. we all know John Ross. Hang on making because of the money by. Big earing by anxious money, but Jackson might not make me. And I just want to say. I'm so glad about this vine back. A cooler in in ain't fun at least you guys. Run around and tackle and I. Just to say is a chance and she was pay play. Colony is with the lion is unless go all I will? Thanks throughout thanks for checking him and we'll We'll talk about your comments off the air we'll. We'll see next episode. When we answer some more questions happy to have you back. To your out y'all band gap the Bash as you want y'all know y'all stand up, gentleman. Thanks man I don't know about that. Talk to our friends and family. They may say otherwise but appreciate. Good friend Tyrrell you know. The. There's a lot there too I the two nuggets out of there that I took John Number. One is about John Ross I think he terrell kind of said yeah, he's. He's gone after this year regardless I'd like to get your thoughts on that i. kind of think that that probably is the case regardless of how much he he balls out this year. I don't know but I just think that there's maybe. A little, too, if the decision comes down to green, and Ross and they both played well this year. I think green probably. Is the one they choose, and then the second part is as we sit here. You know three about three months after the draft is completed. Are you still that as excited as you were in April about the prospect of this class? I Love Terrell because he just talks to Sylvan's his mind without new. We create questions for them exactly exactly. It's the best the best type of scenario. I'm still really confident about this class. I think it was good from start. It's good looking back now. Of course, it's silly to judge draft classes after right after the happier just three months after they happen, I think it put themselves in a great position to handle the receiver core. Going forward the see what they can do with green after this year I think this communications, both sides to get the deal done I think they put himself in great position to let. Let Ross play out to see what his value is at the end of this year. If he gets hurt again, there's there's an avenue for him to come back, but if you balls out them, they have a chance to you know, have test the market and maybe get a compensatory pick back. Because maybe they just don't trust them to do it again. It stay healthy, but with this class I think you add three linebackers who provide you coverage abilities Nath lettuces and the juice didn't have systems. They're going to have four new linebackers make the week. Week on roster four linebackers on the week. What roster and total last year I mean software, and this is not something at the bengals exhibit very very consistently, but credit is due were credited this. Do you know I I like again starting to draft without with the emphasis on offense, obviously going with borough, but complimenting with the second most valuable position on offense receiver that he can grow with that was smart. The linebacker style barbecue can provide value king conventionally become starters on this defense, even if you don't need three starting linebackers on the field at. At the same time, obviously, there's reservations about how they handle the offensive line, but they're throwing all our eggs in this basket with mostly baseless hope, and maybe some maybe some heads roll. If things don't work out, and maybe they do work out, just procreate proclaimed, be geniuses sell with the way that they handled it with the draft I think you can still look back on it with confidence that four or five years down the line, some of the most these players continue to be on the team and be impactful members of the team there. I think that the pressure on Lewin room which even get this. Defense to be averages. Here is is up there I mean there were five that I can count high profile acquisitions via free agency or the draft at linebacker. You talk about the three and the draft, and then you talk about Austin Colegio and Josh binds in free agency I mean they weren't messing around the So you know now, maybe not all those guys make the team mean. Maybe they all do when they don't. They're not active or see playing time at the same time. I mean that's a big overhaul of one position, group and You know I think the the pressure is on anti-roma with all these new pieces to at least another young and their new faces I think they're the pressures on their to at least get the defense to be somewhat respectable where we going next John will be here another couple of minutes before we get out of here account and make. Make this, a two part question, because Brennan, Jacobson and facebook says asking for our predictions for record, and we also got a question on twitter from bengals. John Great Name He's asking if the season last season was played a thousand times. How many wins with Bengals have gone on average so for for starters? What do you want? You want to stick with your record prediction that we made may or do you think you're going a another way with well, I. I struggle to remember a little bit of what exactly what I had I. Think I had about I think I had seventy nine I think. Yeah, you know I'm still comfortable with that and I. Still Think you know given the I think. The playoff bracket expands this year for an extra team per conference. So that could even at seven to nine, it could have the bengals at least late in the season sniffing the postseason not making it. You know I think they'll. They'll sniff five hundred. I think that there are a couple of different ways of thought for me. In terms of the record for the bengals one is, they'll start slow and and hot, because many new faces and the way that the the preseason is going to be played out. Can Be played out. They may need some time to get their feet under him. Part of me also look at the schedule and sees the difficult part of of the beginning easy part of the middle difficult, and so maybe it's the middle stretch that they show some growth and the more difficult parts of the schedule. They stumbled, but I still think you know if you have seven wins and I think seven wins. Has You feel pretty decent about the direction of the team if they're pretty competitive? A lot of games last year where they lost games by one possession, or you know nine point something very manageable scores, and that was with team that was decimated by injury, a rookie head coach, and that offseason was also a mess for a variety of reasons, so I think if you get seven wins. You're feeling pretty good about the direction of this team and I've told people I think they'll be scrappy this year. But Twenty one twenty two out. I landed on six. I think we went through the schedule. I have no reason to really change right now. Other than just looking at the schedule, maybe flipping back and forth frequent a couple of games six to seven is about the range that would predict with fourth earns vision I. Don't know, but I. don't see them topping the Ravens I don't see them winning more than two or three games than division. That's largely going to dictate what the record is going to be that. They don't play just they don't. They? Cup scheduled this by being the worst. There's. Coming from in the worst team, the NFL s year still played teams like the Texans and the cowboys and I think the colts swallow should be on on the rise again like. The divisions. Toughen itself the town of the game out of like I. Don't see them winning more than four or five of those though I against six. Winston is progress last year and specifically when looking at last year, they once you games, the only ones you games, but they lost a game in close games. We've been over the counts. Callistus teams who are that unluckily that unlucky in close games of one year typically bounce back from an overall standpoint, improving from to win six wins a still a four-game improvement. That's that's still trending in the right direction, even if it's not at the eight. Eight or nine win mark everything. Most fans are looking forward to seeing this year so I think if they if they played that season thousand times again, they're not going to be over nate more more than one hundred times. The simulation so I think on average four five, but then you don't get the first overall pick. You don't get Joe Borough and you don't have an opportunity to make the twenty twenties the decade for the Bengals, so I i. think it was it was unfortunately very unlucky, but turned out to be a positive for the long run in terms of what they got. So, before we get to, we gotTA. We gotTA. Get Mike Mike Don his question here, good buddy, donahue, good friend of the program, and for all of us on twitter, talking about John's legendary stashes almost almost as Legend Areas Ken Anderson's of the nineteen seventies and eighties. Who by the way Kennison was on this program? Go check out that interview. Ni- shameless plug by me there. there. How many women do you have to fight off John? 'CAUSE? That's DASH A lot. Donahue's wondering a lot of them in I purposely shaved like the entire beard, and kept the stash four one K. Anderson was on I, was hoping he would give me some props for for the growth of it, but honestly I'm just going to speak on skinc goes. Be Frank, my must. must ask my beer grow at different like lanes in terms in progressions, and how they grow so I, don't want my beard to be like long like a guess after a weeks, but when a shave on mustaches takes longer to grow back, I think I need to join like one of the year clubs to like scented oils to make sure that the growth a consistent rate. Rate, but this is unfortunately the end product of how I have to shave my beard to make sure this even and and full of the time. I won't be public next time, so I don't mind if a few hundred people on facebook call me island. Then call me a seventies porn star, but that's just the way it goes. I would mention by the way so. GonNa offer up one more and then. If you've got some more that you see that you may want to get you before we get on Outta here, this is from Mike Holbrooke. Actually asked us this on Wednesday wasn't really kind of part and parcel of what we were talking about that that night, but I I told him that we would answer this on our listener, question segment and is how does it work? Work if draft picks aren't signed, and or if they shut down the season prior to them signing what happens to them I so, this is kind of unprecedented waters I will say this that is we sit here and Friday afternoon. The bengals have signed. Five of their seven draft picks unfortunately the two that have not signed her their top picks, Joe Borough and t higgins, but the rest of the group has so. I think they still hold on SMS players, but I don't know if they re enter the I don't know how that would work. at my assumption is, they'd probably make up some some rules based on this unprecedented situation. This isn't necessarily a contract holdout by the players. It's just been able to come to the facility out there's. been able to do it. From a very general amateur understanding of how this works, I believe team still has the rights to the players regardless if they sign or don't sign. I don't know what the deadline is for those rights to be expired, but I can't imagine a pandemic shutting down the NFL and their ability to play games would expire those rights under normal circumstances where it may under like how much time passes I think as long as like it. It's it's under this situation. I think they will continue to hold onto their rights. I don't think they would. Would re enter the draft. I think their rights would just be extended I certain peer time until they have the chance to sign workout that situation that sells so. I don't think these players go onto the waiver wire, so become regis, I, think the rights would still be held on to the teams themselves I i. agree with that added I. think like I said I think that The League would probably come up with some sort of you know. Rules with that based on this being just such a different situation than a normal contract holdout, not playing for that team type thing it's it's so. Any others you want to get you before we hop on out of here. John Yeah We had one from Jake underscore NFL. It's a new name haven't seen in a while How are you? I mean Jake is the host of the Law Bengals podcasts in about a month ago. I asked him how he was on his listener questions. Honestly, it was just. That was when in the beginning of June when things were looking pretty bleak in America and I just I. It's like you know we do these listener actions mostly about football, but it's never really just. Let any personal questions and I appreciate Jake kind of returning the favor. I'm okay enough I. It's weather's Nice moving in a couple of days. Getting everything sorted out for that, but thanks to move really fast, but things are starting to feel a little bit more normal, especially talking about football and football returning, but there's always just. Know. What's going to happen next? That will derail everything. That's kind of in the back of my mind, and maybe your mind Anthony as well, but I'm hanging in there. I'm doing good. I'm I'm okay. As could be better could be worse. I think I've you know there's? been some ups and downs and a lot of different respects of life right now, but I'm doing okay, I hope all of our listeners are doing okay hope jake is doing okay, even though he didn't really pointedly direct that question specifically to me I think that was a question too John. I don't know where he I'm not seeing it in the live chat, but. At any rate just because he added me on twitter, doesn't he? Doesn't? He doesn't WanNa know how you doing. Okay. Okay? Well, that's good. but we appreciate Jake checking checking in with us. Jake is a good good friend of this program in a good friend of You know his. His show is a great show. As well for the Bengals podcast network, he is locked. He hosts locked on Bengals with James Routine so obviously You know that's a great program as well so appreciate him. Checking in I guess John had to take off. They're not sure exactly what happened. But at any rate we are going to get out of here again. You can get this show and the other shows along all on the CINCY jungle podcast network. This show the orange black insider. Matt Mimics Chalk Talk. Sorry if I spit when I speak with John Daddy, O and Hoji. Or just a new black with ACM. All of those are available wherever you get your podcasts whether it's the respective youtube channels for each one of those programs or I tune stitcher. spotify Google play megaphone IHEART radio. Since jungle DOT COM. All of those platforms have the audio available for all of these shows so. Go can thanks for tuning and everybody hopefully hopefully. Some for some of your work days ending. Maybe you've started happy hour for some of you. Maybe you're just getting through lunch, but hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see next time.

Bengals John Sheeran John twitter NFL Cincinnati bengals facebook John Ross William Jackson Cincinnati BENGALS youtube Jonah Fred Johnson WanNa ACM Anthony football Fedex Joe Borough
716: Trail of Tears

This American Life

1:01:24 hr | 11 months ago

716: Trail of Tears

"Support for this American life comes from Sitka salmon shares a community supported fishery delivering seasonal shares of traceable sushi grade wild Alaskan, seafood learn about their small boat fleet, fine recipes and order at Sitka salmon shares. Dot Com. Support for this American life comes from indeed indeed can help you find great candidates. So you can focus on hiring the right person for a special offer visit indeed dot com slash American terms and conditions apply offer valid through. September. Thirtieth. Lucien Trescott tries to explain how he's related Thomas Jefferson he says, okay, he's seventy-three. He used to visit a great grandmother who used to visit her great grandfather. Thomas Jefferson's grandson. So there was only when I was growing up I visited my great grandmother. There was only one dead person between me and Jefferson. Lucian was a boy in the early nineteen fifties just six or seven years old when we visit family and Charlottesville sometimes, they would drop them off with his brother at Monticello Jefferson's home. Who says it was before the place had been remade for tourists like it is today basically visitors who pay maybe a dollar and walk through the House. You know my great aunt, they treated the place like like it was still the family home and. We had the run of the points. We used to fill our pockets full of pebbles from the walkways up there and go up on the second floor and third floor replace and crawl out windows onto this parapets center up on. Top of Monticello and drop pebbles on the tour or walking around the house. And Very. A social behavior. And and you're. Probably the only person you'll ever talk to your life that's actually jumped on Thomas Jefferson's bed. I mean we we would play on the bed. We go through that little doorway up the stairs into the closet, which is above the. And sit up there in the closet and one tourists came through the room. We'd stick our faces out of the window up there. Say boop and. Scare them. Hide their. Adult supervision at all no, they'll supervision at all. We went through all the bedrooms stuff a fair, and then of course, we play down in a basement rooms. And then of course, what they call the dependencies, which were the slave rooms that run under the two wings that Ronald out from shallow itself. You'll be decades before the slave quarters are part of the Monticello tour says, these are just empty rooms under the house. No furniture anything else in them. He and his brother would explore in run around. Off Play. Seek seeker whatever little boys did. It's amazing to me that the degree to which it felt like a family home. Did it feel the way to you as a kid? You know I have to tell you that all of this stuff. In my family was just taken for granted. These days of course, nothing about the legacies of the founding fathers has taken for granted. Does this week especially committee appointed by the Mayor of Washington DC COR, removing, relocating or contextualising. Monuments to slave owning founding fathers including the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument, which by the way, the mayor doesn't actually have jurisdiction over. Meanwhile the President of course has put his arms around this issue right after he began his reelection campaign, he gave his speech at Mount Rushmore to make sure that he does not want to remove any monuments, rename any buildings or military bases. But this great great. Great. Whatever it is direct descendant of Thomas Jefferson Lucian Truscott he's got special perspective on this. He led the charge to convince all the other white descendants of Thomas. Jefferson, to other black descendants of Thomas, Jefferson and their official family association. The black family members, of course, trace back to Jefferson and Sally hemmings wanted to be slaved. Vision thinks that everybody needs to get real about the slave owning past of some the founding fathers. Like how do you feel about people taking down monuments of Thomas Jefferson I fact they ought to be taken now. I think that the Great Thomas. Jefferson's Monticello and I think it's an appropriate monument because it actually puts Jefferson's life. In context it puts his sleeve owning as part of his life and in context if you visit Monticello today, you get to see where the slaves lived. You'll be shown where Sally hemmings his brother John Did Woodwork in Jefferson's bedroom and study, and so forth slaves. Place. I never heard it as Milton Nice. When I was growing up but it's talked about today the history of Monticello at this point is about half Jefferson history half slave history i. think that's appropriate. As a memorial. It it tells the story of the whole man. Just the. This sort of God like Thomas Jefferson Win Wall been raised to venerate. What are we supposed to do with the shameful parts of America's past? Is being talked about so much today. Back in the early days of our radio show in the late nineties whatever contributor Sarah vowed to destroy that took that on in this very vivid and complicated way she said out on the road where sister. To visit the site of a historic tragedy when then about part of their own family hundred, sixty years before that. And we wanted to replay it this holiday weekend 'cause the questions that it addresses things that it is obsessed with are all so much more talked about today than twenty two years ago when she did that story. From WBZ Chicago this American Life. I'm IRA glass. We take a road trip into history today. Stay with us. Serve Alan her sister amy were born in Eastern Oklahoma Mo called Indian territory before statehood. The tourist Iranians and SASA where it begins. The enrolled citizens of the Cherokee nation like the parents, which as here is important to the story. Here's the opening line of service story from Nineteen Ninety Eight. Being at least a little Cherokee in northeastern. is about as rare and remarkable as being Michael Jordan fan in. CHICAGO. Who isn't? Guessing I don't need to explain that Antique One Thousand Nine Hundred Sports referenced many of you. But I do have one note before we play the rest of the story and it's about the word engine. Sarah asked me to point at anyone hearing this today that her grandfather was born in Indian territory before statehood and he used the word engine as term of affection is never derogatory. Okay. So picking up. Serious. It goes without saying that my twin sister amy is to accept that I have dark eyes dark hair and she's a blue eyed blond and so our grandfather nicknamed me engine and her Swede. Here's Amy's take on all of this I must point out that while my sister and I don't really look like we sound almost exactly alike a hint for listening to this story I'm usually the grouchy one. Here's amy I. Mean those roles were assigned to us you know Indian and Swede because of the way we looked, but it was also more like the things we were told about ourselves and. You know she was the one who was given the Cherokee language book and I was the one who was always told how much alike I was to our Swedish grandmother and I think. I was probably you know six or seven or something before I realized that I was Cherokee too. We're a little French and Scottish and English and seminole to typical American Mutt. But the Cherokee in Swedish sides of the family were the only genealogies. Anyone knew anything about here's what we knew about ourselves. Ellis Island. Trail of tears. And I think to a kid trail of tears the Cherokees forced March from the East to Oklahoma where we were born seemed enormously more interesting just as a name. Even the smallest. What tears mean and I think in my earliest understanding of where I came from I pictured myself descended from a long line of weeper with bloodshot eyes. The trail of tears between eighteen, thirty, eight and thirty nine, the US Army wrenched sixteen thousand people from their homes rounded them up in store cades and marched them across the country. Four thousand died. Every summer when we were children, our parents would drive us to a place about half an hour from where we lived called Jolla Geology, which is the Cherokee word for Cherokee. Shall ideas the Tribes Cultural Center? There's a recreated village museum, and this was our favorite part, an amphitheater which staged a dramatic recreation of the trail of tears. Every summer we watched chief John Ross try like mad to save the Cherokee, land back east we saw his hothead rival stand wadey rage off to the civil war. We especially loved the death of the Phoenix, a noisy Magenta let interpretive dance in which the bird would die only to rise again. Programs or brochures and Sarah was kind of in charge of them and sometimes she'd let me look at them. She had a whole little file and You know we would look through them and It was. I did take it to heart. It was a story that was really Tragic I have sort of reverent feeling towards it and I think it's because of this play because this play was so serious and and told such a detailed story that It kind of took this place of significance like it was really important and it really mattered. Here's the measure of how important the amphitheater show was to amy our father and our grandfather used to show photographs of Cherokee leaders in books. But even now when I imagined stand eighty I picture the actor Jolla Ghee. So all my life I knew I wouldn't exist but for the trail of tears and it struck me as a little silly that most of the things I knew about it were based on an amphitheater drama I haven't seen for nearly twenty years. At first I thought I'd read some books about it which I did, but then I wanted to see it feel it know how long track it was I wanted it to be real. I enlisted amy perhaps she'd like to do all the driving. A historical tragedy in five fourteen hour days behind the wheel who could pass that up. And so I fly from Chicago she from. Montana. In one spring morning, we find ourselves in a rental car on our way to northwestern Georgia, the homeland of the Cherokee before they were shoved out to. The place, the trail of tears begins. The. Cherokee. Territory once encompassed most of present day Tennessee and Kentucky as well as parts of Alabama Georgia Virginia and the Carolinas. Even. Before contact with the Europeans in fifteen forty, there were a pro democratic society. They built these enormous council houses big enough to fit the entire tribe inside. So everyone could participate in tribal decisions. Were barely on the road in our when we spot them. In jains, ceramic ones three feet tall at a shack on the side of the road amy drives past them. We do a double take and we don't even discuss whether or not to stop. She just backs up immediately and parks. Are you of native American descent. Mexico. Texas. In. Texas. What brought you to Calhoun Georgia the work. The A little. Indians. He sailing her of the Kitschy teepee toting plains Indians. which are probably a lot easier to sell than the stereotypical image of a Cherokee attired outta woman tromping through the trail of tears in rags who wants that as a lawn ornament. Who who buys the some statues, these Indian statutes people here from cal him around Georgia. People here on Order Love Indians. Well, after they got rid of them. You tell the truth there. and. The. Cherokee. Especially, the mixed bloods were always your nerdy overachiever bookish sort of tribal in the early nineteenth century they launched a series of initiatives directly imitating the new American republic. In one decade, they created a written language started a free press, ratified a constitution and founded a capital city. New showed was that capital. Now. It stands in the middle of nowhere a Georgia state park with a handful of buildings across from a golf course. and. Now we. New Jota was founded in eighteen twenty five to call at the Cherokee version of Washington. DC is entirely applicable given the form of government, the tribe established there. They ratified a constitution based on that of the United States dividing into legislative judicial and executive branches its preamble begins. We the representatives of the people of the Cherokee nation in convention assembled in order to establish justice, insure tranquility, promote our common welfare and secure to ourselves and our posterity the blessings of liberty. Unlike Washington new, which is cool and quiet in green site manager David Gomez showed us around the grounds in aiming are were unprepared for the loveliness of the place for its calm lushness its fragrance everywhere honeysuckle was in bloom. I like it here it's Nice it's Peaceful and it's right for the. For the. Atmosphere is right for what was going on in the story that we tell here. It's a story that's sad and a lot of ways but it was a lot of great things happening with the Cherokee nation. The Cherokee along with the other southeastern tribes who suffered removal to Oklahoma the chickasaw, the creek, the choctaw, the seminole, or one of the so called Five civilized tribes. It was in eighteen twenty, two that the Cherokee hero sequoia developed. Now for bet inventing the soul written language of any North American tribe. Only six years later, Cherokee editor Elias booed not founded the Cherokee Phoenix, a bilingual English, Cherokee newspaper published it new Shoda. Many Cherokee especially, the mixed bloods practice Christianity, and because many of these lived as civilized southern gentlemen of the early nineteenth century, they owned prospering plantations, which meant they owned black slaves. More than any other native American tribe, the Cherokees adopted the Religious Cultural and political ideals of the United States. Partly as a means to self preservation. Becoming more like the Americans they hoped to coexist with this new nation that was growing up around them. They weren't allowed to. Georgia settlers wanted their land and third gold which was discovered near new showed in eighteen, twenty nine. On they really progressing so fast at this time period. The printing operation was going with their newspaper here. Things are. Moving so fast for for short while here, it looked very promising because of the old and the big demand for land. The fate had already been really sealed for him in earlier years. Tribal allowed Christian missionaries to live and work among them and to teach children English. The most beloved of these was the Presbyterian Samuel Worcester who built a two story house at New Chiodo which functioned as a post office school and rooming house. It's still there and David Gomez walks us through. Steve. Stamps here your whole. The state of Georgia. Which of all the southern states treated the Cherokee with the most hostility passed a number of alarming laws in the eighteen twenties and thirties undermining the sovereignty of the nation. One of these laws required white settlers within the boundaries of the nation to obtain a permit from the state of Georgia. Samuel. Worcester. Refused to apply for such a permit arguing that he had the permission of the Cherokee to live on their lands and that should suffice. Georgia arrested Worcester and imprisoned him for four years. Worcester appeal to the Supreme Court and the case Worcester versus Georgia became a great victory for the tribe. The court under Chief Justice John. Marshall ruled that the Cherokee nation was just that a sovereign nation within the borders of the US and therefore beholding only to the federal government I e not under the jurisdiction of Georgia state laws and Jerky nation was lady you know they thought all right the highest court in the land of the United States you know this government that we're trying to copy. they've ruled in our favorites is going to be good of course, Andrew Jackson who was pro removal from the early years he had campaigned on that issue. decided he wasn't going to back the Supreme Court ruling. Think about that. That means. Jackson is violating his own oath of office to uphold the constitution. Anyway, the state of Georgia was thrilled when Jackson thumbed his nose at the court and immediately dispatched teams to survey the Cherokee lands for a land lottery soon, white settlers arrived here. They show up two years later in eighteen, thirty four. With Land Lottery Deed and with Georgia soldiers saying you know I've got this land from the lottery get off of it. When small constitutional violation that was part of the land grab Georgia's seized the Cherokee printing press. So they couldn't publicize their cause and win political support in states north. The tribe was divided about what to do stay in fight or demand cash for the land and head. West. no-one exploited the split more than Andrew Jackson. And no-one annoyed Jackson liked principal chief John Ross. Ross was a Jeffersonian figure in almost every since a founding father of the Cherokee nation in its modern legal form he preached liberty while owning slaves. An educated gentleman planter he was cheap from eighteen, twenty, seven to eighteen, sixty six. In his later years, he corresponded with Abraham Lincoln. In his early years, he was such a believer in the inherent justice of the American system that he lobbied relentlessly in Washington DC believing that once the congress and the president understood that the Cherokee were a virtuous sibling republic that they treat the tribe fairly as equals. Once, the state of Georgia began visiting the Cherokee and John Ross among them Ross wrote treated like dogs we find ourselves fugitives vagrants in strangers in our own country. The vast majority of the tribe wanted to stay put and supported Ross around two hundred men including Phoenix editor. Elias. Booed not in his brother Stan Wadey a hundred in tribe of sixteen thousand mad at Buddha. Knots House in New Shoda and signed a treaty with the US government. They had no authority to do this. Called the Treaty of new at Shoda, it relinquish all Cherokee lands east of the Mississippi in exchange for land in the West. They figure Georgia was already seizing Cherokee land. This might be the only way the Cherokee could get something for it. John Ross whom the Georgia militia arrested so that he could not protest was stunned. He accused the Treaty Party of treason. The rest of the sixteen thousand Cherokee signed a petition calling the treaty invalid and illegal. Congress ratified the treaty by only one vote despite impassioned pleas on behalf of the Cherokee by senators Henry Clay Davy Crockett. The tribe was given three years to remove themselves to the West. Now. We're standing at the site of Elias booed nuts house where the infamous newest showed a treaty was signed. Spring of thirty eight rolled around about right now and nobody was going anywhere Georgia and federal government thought they were going to have some problems and you had about seven thousand foods come in forcibly removed the Cherokees from their farm from their houses and. Initially rounded up and what Ramona's force or stock AIDS, and then moved up into eastern Tennessee and northeastern Alabama to three immigration depots where they were then transferred. Then moved out on the trail tears, everybody knows. So Teddy pay this is the starting point for the trail of tears for the individual trick Jarecki's really started at their front door wherever they were rounded up from. Amy and I want to step on this patch of grass where the treaty was signed but we hesitate. It's not a grave Gomez tells us but that's what it feels like. We tiptoe onto it this profane ground. Then we tiptoe away. Perhaps. We should be embarrassed by certain discrepancies between our trail of tears, and there's we're week where decadent where Americans, which means road trip history buffs one minute Amnesia tax the next we want to remember except when we want to forget. We register at the Chattanooga Choo Choo the Chatanooga. Chew it's a hotel. Now, a gloriously hokey beautifully restored Holiday Inn in which the lobby is the ornate dome of the old train station in the rooms are turn of the century rail cars parked out on the tracks we're in giggles the entire night for the simple reason that the phrase Choo Choo is completely addictive. We try to work it into every sentence. What should we do for dinner stay here at the Chew Chew we end up going out for barbecue saying this is good but I can't wait to get back to the chew. We watch the X. Files in our train car commenting is it just me or is this show even better in the chew chew I send email from my laptop just so that I can right greetings from the Chattanooga Choo. Choo exclamation point number of times. I just said Chu Chu seven number choose fourteen. Day To. Sadly, we check out of the chew and drive across town to Ross's landing. It used to be where John Ross is ferry service carried people across the Tennessee River but in eighteen thirty, eight, it was one of the starting points for the water route of the trail of tears. I stand on the sand and read a weathered historical marker. Established about eighteen sixteen by John, Ross some three, hundred seventy yards east of this point. It consisted of a ferry warehouse in landing Cherokee parties left from the landing for the West in eighteen thirty eight. The. Same year the growing community took the name Chattanooga and I'm sure there's no connection all between those two points. That sounds so nice. The left for the West. By Wia. I haven't mentioned that Ross's landing also functions as Chattanooga's tourist center up the hill from the river is the gigantic Tennessee. And an eye mex theater the place is crawling with tourists a crowd. So generic indistinguishable from one another they swirled around says a single t shirt. A. Hundred Sixty years ago thousands of Cherokees came through this site. In the summer they were forced onto boats faced heat exhaustion in a drought that stranded them without water to drink in the fall they headed west by foot eventually trudging barefoot blizzards either way they died of starvation, dysentery, diarrhea and fatigue a quarter of the tribe was gone. And here in the shadow of the aquarium, the trail of tears is remembered by a series of quotations from disgruntled native Americans carved into a concrete plaza. One of the citations from a Cherokee named dragging canoe is from seventeen, seventy six, the white men have almost surrounded. US. Leaving US only a little spot of ground to stand upon and it seems to be their intention to destroy us as a nation. Could. Call. Wrong, we're moving diagonally across the sidewalk. Andrew Jackson in eighteen twenty, it is high time to do away with the farce of trading with Indian tribes as separate nations will step on that one. The sidewalks there are symbolic of A. Broken promises. You making that up. No, it says right here some of the papers are cracked to symbolize the broken promises made to the Indians. Most Americans have had this experience. Most of us can name things. Our country has done that we find shameful from the travesties. Everybody agrees were wrong the Japanese internment camps or the late date of slavery's abolition two murkier partisan arguments about. Abortion or the NOLA gay. World History has been a bloody business from the get go but the nausea where suffering standing on the broken promises at Ross's landing is peculiar to a democracy because in democracy we're all responsible for everything government does. This is the letter from. Ralph Waldo. Emerson to President Martin Van Buren in eighteen thirty eight. A crime is projected that confounds our understandings by its magnitude, a crime that really deprives us as well as the Cherokee of country for how could we call the conspiracy that should crush these poor Indians, our government or the land that was cursed by their parting and dying imprecations our country anymore you sir will bring down the renown chair in which you sit into infamy if your seal is set to this instrument of perfidy and the name, this nation hitherto, the sweet omen of religion and liberty will stink to the world. and. The Path, end. With a quotation from an unknown survivor of the trail of tears who said. Longtime we travel on way to new land people feel bad when they leave old nation women's cry and make sad Wales children and many men and all looked sad like when friends die but they say nothing and just put heads down and keep on go towards West many days passed and people die very much. We bury close bike trail. That last passage especially the part about win friends die brings us to tears and we just stand there looking off towards the Tennessee brokenhearted. Meanwhile. There are little kids literally walking over these words playing on them making noise having fun. We sorta hate them for a second. We ask a teacher WHO's with a group of fourth graders why she isn't talking to them about Cherokee, history and she says normally she would but it's the end of the school year and this trip is they're rewarded for being good. It sounds reasonable. I asked him. If she thinks these kids should share our sadness. Well I think it's a sad story. It's like. Me It's hurt like the Holocaust just you don't have to be Jewish to think that that's definitely a sad. Part of history and I think the trail of tears is. You know. America's version of genocide and. Really, it started right over there. You look like you're about to hit something. Still. I can't take my eyes off those children I envy them I. WanNa join them I'm an I. Max Person I had been to a Nymex theater just weeks before. I wanted to come on this trip to get a feel for this trail that made us. But standing here at Ross's landing, it hits me how crazy that is suddenly the only thing I get out of it is rage. Why should we keep going? No. I don't know why I don't know why we're here. I seriously don't like I. Know It's an interesting story and yes, we are always interested in our past but I don't eat sometimes I wonder what good comes to that I don't. I don't think it makes me like more contented person at all fact I think I feel really haunted by all of this and I feel very kind of way down by the pain and part of me thinks this whole thing is is a mistake. and. And maybe I, feel more knowing about it but I I mean it's not like this is a story where the more you know the better your fee you'll feel just the opposite the more I learned the worst I feel and the like more hatred I feel towards this country that I still love and therefore the more conflicted. And like just most like I just feel like all this anger it everything in their standing they said it's like stupid aquarium building like talking to Coast Guard guys they're like. Now. There's a collider. and. I mean I I don't know. Now. I. Just feel like, Whoa. I feel worse. I feel worse. There are only so many hours a human being can stomach unfocused dread I was tired and confused and depressed I needed the kind of respite that can only come from focused resentment in the trail of tears saga. If there's one person you're allowed to hate, it's Andrew Jackson the architect of the Indian removal policy. And since the trail of tears pass through Nashville Anyway, we stop at his plantation the hermitage. Sarah values sister into the enemy's bedroom. That's in a minute from Chicago public radio when our. Program continues. Support for this American life comes from Sitka salmon shares a community supported fishery delivering seasonal shares of traceable sushi grade wild Alaskan seafood as a member receive a share of their harvest fish and crustaceans responsibly caught by their collective of small boat fishermen. It's meticulously handled for fresh from the ocean flavor delivered free to your door, meet their fleet access recipes and. 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It's American Life America's Today a program about the past and what to make of the past we continue with the story of Sarah Vow and her sister amy who are retracing the path of the trail of tears they have just arrived if for the break at the home of the president responsible for the trail somebody they hate and attend to keep hating Andrew Jackson Who incidentally is when president trumps favorite presidents? President trump place Jackson's portrait in the Oval Office he spoke it Jackson's home to commemorate the Two hundred fiftieth anniversary of Jackson's birth. In that speech called Jackson is a people's president like himself out for the common man somebody who defied the political class of his day. It was during the revolution, the Jackson I confronted and defied an arrogant elite. Does that sound familiar to you. Wonder. Why they keep talking about trump and Jackson Jackson and trump. I know the feeling, Andrew. So Out earlier that today's program was first broadcast in nineteen ninety eight. In the year since Jeremy visited Jackson's home, they've updated the exhibits. The museum there includes exhibits on slaves and native American removals, Jackson enacted. There's an audio toward the focuses entirely on the slave people who've there. Again from our original story. Here CERVO. The House and museum or close to the public. When we arrived because of astonishing tornado damage part of me wanted to destroy Andrew Jackson everything he represented seeing all those hacked up trees made me feel like someone had beaten me to the punch. A? God look at it the whole the trees are down. The wrath of God. And side there's no display mentioning Indian removal because remarkably there is no display about Jackson's presidency caroline bracket showed us around the house, a call antebellum mansion that looks like a cross between Graceland and terra. Unfortunately from my spite spree I liked carol and bracket I felt bad for like she would point into the library and say Jackson subscribed to a lot of newspapers forest death and I'd say was one of them the Cherokee Phoenix she wasn't sure she wanted to show off the mansions painstaking restoration. All of the rams that have original wallpaper. All of the paper was conserved and had to be cleaned with a a racer, the size of a pencil or ice or. So that was quite an undertaking. Portrait of Jackson was finished nine days before his death I don't think he he shows. The wear and tear of his life in that portrait the one over the he looks like he's sticking his head at a car. Wasn't worrying about is here much better. Caroline guides has passed the flower garden planted by Jackson's wife Rachel, and into the family graveyard. There are a few piddly headstones and one Greco Roman monstrosity with an obelisk rising from the center. Which one of these graces jacks? Designed for Rachel. And left dream for himself. And these are other family members. I pull a book out of my backpack a book with the Subtitle Andrew, Jackson in the subjugation of the American. Indian. Caroline, and amy exchange a worried look. Well so I'm Stan I'm standing here on them. I'm standing here on Andrew. Jackson's great when they're part of me as a person of partly Cherokee descent that wouldn't mind dancing on it. You know. Like. There's a letter that Jackson. Jackson wrote in about the the the removal of the southeastern tribes and. This is his opinion on the on the southeastern tribes leaving their land. Doubtless. It will be painful to leave the graves of their fathers but what do they more than our ancestors did more than our children are doing to better their condition in an unknown land? Our forefathers left all. That was dear in earthly objects, our children by thousands yearly leave the land of their birth to seek new homes in distant regions, and then it ends Can it be cruel in the government win by events which it cannot control the Indian made discontent in his ancient home to purchase his lands, give him a new and extensive territory to pay the expense of his removal and support him a year in his new abode. How many thousands of our own people would gladly embrace the? Of removing to the West on such conditions. In there something. Or something nutty about old Hickory in this passage. You know just the fact that that that he just thinks. Multo. Compare. that. Of Indians from their land with the opportunity of his generation you know to just go out west. You think I mean, what do you make of that? Can you help me understand that mindset? Probably not I mean the interesting thing about that era was that. That they really felt that they were preserving This is how they justified in their own minds. was that they were actually preserved that this was inevitable. It was sort of the early thought of manifest destiny that it was inevitable that this would happen Interestingly to me is they never seem to think that we were going to settle the country all the way to the West all the way to California. So if they just kept moving everybody further away, that would suddenly get to a point where there wasn't gonNA be any settlement which of course didn't happen. We drive on into Kentucky towards Hopkinsville when the trail of tears pass through southern Kentucky in December eighteen, thirty, eight, a traveler from Maine happened upon a group of Cherokees. He wrote we found them in the forest by a roadside camped for the night under a severe fall of rain accompanied by heavy wind canvas for a shield against the clemency of the weather and the cold wet ground for resting place after the fatigue if the day they spent the night. Several were then quite ill and an aging man. We were then informed within the last struggles of death even aged females apparently ready to drop into the grave for traveling with heavy burdens attached to the back. On the sometimes frozen ground and the sometimes muddy streets with no covering for the feet except for what nature had given them. We learned from the inhabitants on the road where the Indians pass that they buried fourteen or fifteen at every stopping place. A. John his wife died in a place like this. In winter of pneumonia she had one blanket to protect herself from the weather and she gave it to a sick child during a sleet storm. There's more it gets worse. I always knew the Cherokee owned slaves that they own them in the east and that they own them in the West only in the course of this road trip. Did it occur to me that the slaves got to Indian territory in the same manner as their masters on the trail of tears? Can you imagine as being a slave wasn't bad enough to be a slave to a tortured Indian made to walk halfway across the continent? They three Hopkinsville. We stopped here because it was on the map but pulling into town, we saw signs for a trail of tears memorial park we didn't know about. Seem like a good idea to go there. were. Netflix bother you. Can. You. Tell me about what the origin of this places and why. Why there's a park here and It came about. Hopkinsville was a stop. Along the way on the trail of tears. And the Cherokee. Camped here they were here for a week or so. While they were here to of their chiefs died. And they're buried up on the hillside. She start here uh-huh and walk up to the grave area. There are three bronze plaques on one of the Post. The last one just before you know the gray area tells you about the two chiefs, White Path and fly Smith. The plaque near the grave says that White Path was one of the Cherokee who fought under Andrew. Jackson in eighteen fourteen at the battle of Horseshoe. Bend Jackson even gave White Path Watch for his bravery. In that battle Cherokee saved Jackson's life which hints at the level of Jackson's betrayal. The tribe had a Cherokee not saved his life then White Path and fly Smith not be buried here beneath our feet. The graves are up on a little hill. You can hear the highway down below, but still it serene. Up until this moment, all the grades along the trail had been metaphorical all through Tennessee amion I kept saying we're driving over graves driving over graves, but even then we just imagined them there under the black top off in the woods. But here, the skeleton suddenly had faces specific stories the graves were real. It. took the Cherokee about six months to walk to Oklahoma. We're doing it in five days. Every ten minutes we cover the same amount of ground they covered in day. We drive with the sun in our eyes on back roads through Kentucky, we duck into a remote section, downstate Illinois, Chicago, and fear to tread. A. Plaque Marxist spot where thousands of Cherokee camped unable to cross the Mississippi because of floating ice we cross it in under a minute. I know we're going fast, but it doesn't feel fast. We plod through most of Missouri stopping it yet another trail of tears state park. There's actually a name for what we're doing. It's called heritage tourism. which sounds so grand like it's going to be one freak in a piff any after another. But after a while we just read the signs without even getting out of the car at the end of every day, we fall into our motel beds wrecked. Day Four in the morning we plow through Arkansas, we get to Fayetteville in the afternoon we have lunch with two old roommates of mine, Brad and Lonnie who takes us to a little trail of tears marker next to a high school parking lot. That looks like On this site in the summer of eighteen, thirty, nine camped one thousand Cherokees men, women and children and route to their signs facing semi circular arrangement of Boulders. Anyone who's ever been to high school would recognize it immediately as the place students go to sneak cigarettes or get stoned. And once again, it's striking. Have the two American tendencies exists side by side to remember our past and to completely ignore it and have fun. Like it how we treat all our national holidays don't we mourn the dead on Memorial Day with volleyball and Sunscreen don't we the people commemorate the fourth of July by setting, meet and bottle rockets on fire which makes a lot of sense when you remember that a phrase is weird and whimsical as the pursuit of happiness sits right there in the second sentence of the founding document of the country. Burn. The most happiness I find on the trip is when we're in the car and I can glare the Chuck Berry taped by brought. We drive the trail where thousands died and I listened to the music and think what are we supposed to do with the grisly past? I feel a righteous anger and bitterness about every historical fact what the American nation did to the Cherokee. But at the same time I'm an entirely American creature. I'm in love with this song in the country that gave birth to it. had. To be. Back at all. Listening to back in the USA while driving the trail of tears I, turn it over and over in my head, it's a good country. It's a bad country good country bad country. And of course, it's both. Oklahoma native America. I don't remember the scientists say that you. Know. I think didn't they used to say Oklahoma's okay. It's about right to It's OK. Across, the state line were in the western Cherokee nation and the maddening thing. The heartbreaking cruel sad cold fact is that northeastern Oklahoma looks exactly like northwestern Georgia same old trees same old grassy farmland. The Cherokee walked all this way crossed rivers, suffered blizzards, buried their dead in all for what? The same old land they left. We breeze through Taloqan the Cherokee capital even though the trail of tears officially stopped there, our trail won't be over until we get to our hometown brags. It's about twenty minutes away and we plan on spending the evening with our aunts and uncles there. Funded. owns. I wanted to talk to my uncle Johnny, my mother's brother. Seventy four he's my oldest living relative I. Asked him about his great grandfather Peter Parson who came to Oklahoma on the trail of tears. Twelve year old. And he was he he grew up here from twelve years old and he was a stonemason. and. Some of his work is still around Taloqan. You're going up to the. To the village tomorrow you'll see to two big columns in he bit him. He built those he be. He helped build those two columns. She's built that right after they came up here. I didn't know that the columns he's talking about and there are actually three instead of two are the great symbols of the Cherokee nation in the West for years I've had an old photograph of them stuck on my refrigerator door. They're all. That's left of the remains of the Cherokee female seminary, the very first public school for Girls, west of the Mississippi which my great grandmother attended. Everything about the journey until now has been a little world historical hearing. Dr Ancestor helped build the columns. The first I felt an actual familial connection to the story. I asked Jonah about our family and the Cherokee presence in Oklahoma. I asked him a lot of off topic questions about his service in World War. Two. Mainly, because I was dying to I was never allowed to ask him about it when I was a kid. And then I asked him a mundane reporter Lee question about whether he thinks the state of Oklahoma has done a good job educating its students about American Indian history. He says, yes then jumps into a non sequitur about his own education that I haven't been able to stop thinking about cents hard. You wish that I could've. Maybe, went to school a lot more. I, know. Education. And that was one of my big. At But when I was growing up, took everybody to make to make a living. To work. Holy got a master degree in education I got to third grade. Kyoto that. Third. Grade. Third Grade. Duke. is about third or fourth grade we didn't get no education. So What you learn. You. Can't afford to forget you know. On this trip I've been so wrapped up in all the stories of all the deaths on the trail of tears sitting there listening to my ask what if I realized that there are lots of ways that lives are pummeled by history. If the trail of tears is a glacier that inched its way west. My uncle is one of the boulders deposited when it stopped, he had to work the farm and then came the dust bowl and then came the war. All these historical forces board down on him, but he did not break. Compared to him compared to the people we descend from I, am free of history. I'm so free of history I have to get in a car and drive seven states to find it. Good to to. To to know to know where you from say to no warring poor you beginning is. It really probably don't amount all that much. Only two one. Has. Nothing to do with you getting out here doing your, what are we gonNA do tomorrow or we to from now but at least if you WANNA look back. You can look back maybe on this trip and say, well was down in the area there you know and for some of my ancestors originated from you know. Day Five Shyla G. Here Ramona's saying. You remember this. Don't you? Mean, we came here once a year. THOSE COLLINS A lot smaller than I remember. Remember them just being these? Arrows into the sky. They can't be more than what twenty feet tall. Towers. Look. Now at this is the amphitheater entrance. Oh. Here's where you get your program. Appear. and. Intercept. Statue Sequoia. Over there where the Phoenix would rise again. Over there over there isn't that down there on the right? That's where Armor stanway would like he was always throwing a fit. there. Really. Unfortunately. Due to loss of funding the drama hair Jolla g be performed this summer. Amy and I sit in the chairs where we first learned about the trail of tears talk about our trip or experiences were different. She minored in native American Studies in College. She not only owns a copy of black elk speaks she could quote from it and for her the trip was about empathy you know I've been like pretty close tear sometimes just thinking about. The pain or whatever like what the kids must have been thinking like. When we were driving just kept imagine like you know the kids sing, where are we going? Where are we going he? No like what is happening? I guess I've been sort of thinking about what it really must been. Like. I've been thinking about those kids too but the person I identify with most in this history is John Ross, the principal chief during the trail of tears. Because, he was caught between the two nations. He believed in the possibilities of the American constitution enough to make sure the Cherokee had one two he believed in the liberties, the declaration of independence promises and the civil rights the constitution ensures and when the US betrayed, not only the Cherokee but its own creed I would guess that John Ross was not only angry not only outraged not only confused I would guess that John Ross was a little broken hearted. Because that's how I feel. I've been experiencing the trail of tears not as Cherokee but as an American. John Ridge one of the signers of the Treaty of Newest Shoda. Once prophesized Cherokee blood if not destroyed will wind its courses in beings of fair complexions who will read that their ancestors became civilized under the frowns of misfortunes and the causes of their enemies. He was talking about people like my sister and me. The story of the trail of tears like the story of America is as complicated as our Cherokee Swedish. Scottish. English French seminal. Family Tree. Just as our blood will never be pure, the trail of tears will never make sense. Zero she put a version of the story about the trail of tears in her book take the Cannoli stories from the new world. But in the years since she told the story on the radio, she has written a number of surprising funny books retelling some very grim American history. The wordy shipmates by PURITANS buckle. If he had had the Brooklyn Hawaii bunkered assassination vacation, do just Google and see what I'm talking about. On. As program is produced by Julie Snyder and Myself Nancy Updike v Spiegel senior editor for the show Paul Tough Jimmy Editors for today's show jacket. Marquee. Rocklin and concierge series. Al But up to now from Pat Hanover in Soviet Lima's additional help on this rerun by Emmanuel Berry nor guild Diane Wounded Matsumoto Stone Nelson in that tyranny. Especial. Thanks today to Ben. Lloyd Schweitzer Inbred Summerhill Pat and Jenny Powell and Sarah Sister Amy. Lucian Truscott the fourth who you heard the beginning of the show talking about Monticello is a columnist at Salon read about monuments to Jefferson for the New York Times, this American life is delivered to public radio stations by PR asks the Public Radio Exchange, our website, this American Life Dot Org we listen to any of are over seven hundred programs for absolutely free sport for this American life comes from Sitka Salmon. Chairs the community supported fishery delivering seasonal shares of traceable Sushi, grade, wild Alaskan seafood, and more about their small boat fleet find recipes an order at Sitka salmon shares, dot com slash tesol. Thanks? As. PROGRAMS CO-FOUNDER MISTERI amount here today is hearing our program from Chattanooga an ASS. Is it just me or is this show even better in the Chew Chew? Glass back next week with more stories of this American Lion. Next the podcast this American. Life. In a world where a virus spreads across the country and movie theaters are closed. One radio show decides to go where radio has never gone before. To the movies. There's really a style of narration I am not suited for. We're bringing you stories of films. I am confident you have not heard of gooding in nineteen sixty about pandemic. That is the exact opposite of the pandemic we're living through right now. Night. Next week on the podcast or your local public radio station.

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Little Caesars with John Ross Bowie

Doughboys

1:39:46 hr | 2 years ago

Little Caesars with John Ross Bowie

"This is a head gum podcast. I was not tired physically. No. The only tired. I was was tired of giving in writing in her autobiography my story. This is Rosa Parks, characterized her pivotal refusal to surrender her bus seat to a white passenger in nineteen fifty five the daughter of two former slaves the stand parks. Took by refusing to stand tipped over a domino. That led to the Montgomery bus boycott and the eventual abolition of Jim crow laws in the American South, while her one woman, sit in may have been spontaneous parks ner has been Raymond a military, Barbara and organizer in the city's labor movement had previously spent close to two decades as activists in the fight for racial Justice. And the true sacrifice of parks. Protest is not seen merely an arrest. But in the lifetime of hardship that followed parks in her husband, both lost their jobs and unemployable in Alabama and besieged by death threats left their home in Montgomery to resettle in Detroit. Parks would work for congressman John Conyers in a string of social Justice organizations making little money in the process. Her husband's life was tragically cut short by throat cancer in nineteen seventy seven she was brutally attacked in her own home in nineteen ninety four and subsequently developed a Menchaca and in the years before death in two thousand five she was destitute and threatened with Vic for non-payment of rent. But that would remain merely a threat do the efforts of another famous detroiter who paid parks rent out of his own pocket. Mike Illitch who along with his wife Marian had opened a pizzeria nearby garden city in nineteen Fifty-nine ignoring the delivery trend in focusing on carry out pizza targeted at the value conscious. Consumer within a decade the illegit had fifty franchise locations in nineteen Seventy-nine. They introduced a two for one deal promoted with the on the no slogan pizza pizza uttered by it's animated big nose. Toga clad mascot who speared pies. In the end of his pile. The chain would grow over five thousand locations over the next three decades enriching Illitch to where he could purchase. Both the Detroit Red Wings. And the Detroit Tigers and launch charitable initiatives to feed disaster victims and employees veterans illegit financials. Abortive Rosa Parks wasn't revealed until after his own death in two thousand seventeen a secret of modesty that sharply. Contrast with the egomania and greed of chain pizza rival Papa John Schneider, of course, a billionaire donating a tiny fraction of his income is not equivalent to the actions of a woman who risked ruined to defy GRA Gatien decency. Does not compare to heroism but Illitch used his status to help us civil rights trailblazer. Live outer life with some degree of dignity, and in that small way as parks did in her historic way, made the country a fair place this week on Doboy shows Little Caesars. Welcome to Doboy the podcast about chain restaurants. I'm Nick wider alongside my co host Ted Bundy the spoon man, Mike, Mitchell, like bundt cake like bundt cake, but like Ted Bundy, the notorious serial because you are the Ted Bundy one. What you're saying because of demeanor, and my appearance that I'm kind of a Ted Bundy like like just proved by point with your response. Yours wants back. I you don't look too much like who's what's your? Previously a dead ringer for Jeffrey Dahmer, oh, you're Dahmer was a lot of people agreed with. I definitely have like a guess as being nice taking said, no Dahmer. That was courtesy of at Jeremy wear me W H E R E me, and he writes because of all the cakes. He's killed obviously. So that's his logic for the Ted Bundy. Oh, thanks for clearing it up. We did our hands help through that one. If you haven't until late museum of the show rose spoon at gmaiLcom is the address we talked about this that we don't like the we don't like how the Netflix thing. People. Like Ted bundy's snack. We don't like. Yeah. We hate that. We hate that. He's looking Liska. This guy who killed several women is looking like an snack. Yeah. We don't we do not rats. We don't like this. We that's gotta stop right. I mean, he has bay though, we agree. He's bay. We do agree that Ted Bundy is back, but I can't go as far as as a snack. Right. Wait. No other way around Suri's. I just don't like any of that that whole world around it as weird, right? It's weird. Yeah. But I mean like, yes. But all that aside, but you do know that he knew how to lay the pipe, right? Oh well. We're not going to release this episode. But sounds like. All these to our guests. Not doesn't really care about that. You've got a great yesterday. New fantastic. Normally the case on this podcast you need to stop saying. It's an insult to the book. They should be better. Step it up. Matt koala? Nick, I got a little first of all God. We were just sharing common experiences that we've both had right now. I want to look the other way as I do this. I apologize. To spoon nation. And here we go. Here's a drop. On guy. There's a lot of his drop is fucked up. Wow. What? What is going on? This is per singer helper singer fucked up. Fucked up even more Mitch is you for not prescreening that we started to play. And then it got too loud. And then we didn't do it couldn't give it a full listen before you put it on here. It was shampoo or simple, but the fuck cap and their use a you assign to to percents which was wrong shampoo. Blur. It wasn't per singer shampoo. You gotta get some new blood in the drop game. These guys are getting they're getting lazy the resting on their laurels improve their fucked up. First of all, we're not gonna do another job. Visit. That's the last one mino-. No, we're not gonna do other one. Because that one was right. We'll keep that one in. There's the beginning of it sounded nice. Yeah. It ended the way they all do you saying your neck shampooed? They're really comes hard at ya in the Twitter comments, and it's kind of nice little shot and Freud to feel it to hear him fail their poorly. Edited drop shampooed ler step it up more like a sham poodle Lur because that drop was a sham. Well, ran he's going to be embarrassed. He's fucking roasted. Mitch you mentioned our guest or thrilled to have Mirin actor and comedian from speechless and the big bang theory. John Ross Bowie is here. Hi, john. Hi guy. Thank you for being here. Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. This is great. We're sorry about the first five minutes. I've never seen anyone sitting in the guest chair look more confuse. No, I've heard the drops before. I just was I had a levels issue at the same issue. I was just very baffled, and I agree. Eight total sham. He's going to be hurting. That's rough. Yeah. It's it's after a come on. About you grew up in New York City as my understanding that is true. How what was it like in your era because it's the best food city in America. I think that in arguably what we're what was your what were eating habits in the city growing up. I know like like in our in our era. It was more a lot more at home. We read a lot more home prepared meals. What was the case in the city when you're grown up? Are you sitting error like that? It's very sterile me. Okay. I've just never heard you say that era. What did you think I was saying no, I was just saying the the entire thing of his are ehre, whatever just where of a similar generation? Yes. Who you and me all of us. Yeah. No shit. That's what I'm saying. Like ten years older than you guys them in significantly older than different. Yeah. I think that's what I was confused by there's a larger gap between us and use song than us, and you the very other direction. Very few song is Beuys is basically baby's day out. Out. He waddled into the waddled into the podcast. And the does great. He strikes me as very very young. He's very, by the way, Mitch you haven't you haven't RSVP songs bar mitzvah yet. That's coming out who is their theme. It's. Nervous energy. I love it. I. Lived in midtown Manhattan. So we there were there were chain restaurants, but not as many sort of it was the seventies and eighties. When I was growing up. It was sort of pre gentrification of that neighborhood and Disney hadn't bought out time square yet. So it was still like seventy it was all grind houses. And rape and porn theaters. And I was not allowed on that stretch of land. That's really free reign. I was on forty four th between ninth and tenth and the deuce is forty second between seventh and eighth. So you'll note that is three or four blocks and. All the way up until the age eighteen my parents were just like that. You do not go on that block man, a lot of wiggles lot of wiggle room. You do not go on that block. And I was like all right. That's that's fair. You know, you've asked for one city block that I can't go. And also, I'm not a huge rush to go on that block. Yeah. In hindsight. I regret it just because I have seen like crazy kung FU. Triple features with people on angel dust around me, which would have been kind of fascinating that feels like a road traveled. But yeah, we would eat in the neighborhood. There was a lot of the house kitchens always been really good food neighborhood. So there's a lot of good Italian. There was a there was some good pizza. There was great Chinese on like Cheney's whether things like Mexican here in LA one of the things where like the tiniest shittiest home the wall near probably gonna be. Okay. You know, you're probably you're probably going to leave. They're pretty cited. Right. It's just a really safe bet in New York City the way it isn't quite in L. L A, but are Mexican food and sushi's really good. So you know, you accept it for what it is. And not for what it isn't Mike. I there's there's some things about that. Like, what's the place down here? The god. Now, I can't remember anything. I'm scared for whatever reason why what's the place down here talk. Let's talk. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Just going by where are you pointed house of pies Yuccas, Starbucks, the the it's it's beaten the saps coffeehouse. God. I can't believe I got it. Have you been snaps before? I haven't it's so good. And it was on Jonathan goals. Listen that is that was one of those places that was just like it's a hole in the wall and it works out. But I agree with you that you can go to another place. It's a hole in wall out here. And then it's complete trash in. It is it is sometimes it's kind of a kind of crap shape. The it was we didn't eat out a ton rate. But we when we did. There were there were a lot of good options down that neighborhood is gotten a lot more expensive. But it's still terrific for restaurants. It's a great little stretch of food ninth avenue as a food festival every may, or at least they used to until recently, and twenty blocks all the restaurants come out with booths and sell their wares. And it's really it's this incredible. It's near kind of its best, you know, outed and fill. But it's also like all of his Greek food and everybody descends upon the neighborhood. I'm boss donation, but I New York rules. I like New York, I think it's a fun place. Oh, that's very generous view. Yeah. We don't hear that from a lot of pasta. That's very Jenner New York is it's a cool. It's a cool city. Nick, my bike New York less than I thinking, your fingernails into your palm. While you say that. To do that. I I'm sympathetic ear travails here. And he didn't say you like the Yankees. That's I don't like the Yankees, nor do I for that matter. That's fine. Are you? All right. Hell, yeah. We're like I mean, where it's New York is like it is it's a it's a it's where brothers. But we do have love for each other. When it comes down for it. I mean, Boston's gotta rivalry pretty much every city, right? It's just an inferiority complex already pieces shit about being from Boston this. I don't have heard data in front of me. But people from Boston talk about being from Boston. Maybe more than people from New York talk about being from New York. And I will say this also is that a lot of the time. They're not from Boston. That's which is very frustrating. I mean, I'm not either from Quincy from its own city. It's its own city. I at least a Nick is Nick is smiling big time right now. No you own. You mentioned the Quincy thing Quincy all the time. But also Quincy is right there. Right. Like, there's so many people from like western like there is close to New York as they are to Boston here is my question in my wife is from the north shore of Massachusetts swamps get oh, yeah. And she always says Boston, and I was make fun of her for that. She is not from Boston. She is a town. That is so small it doesn't have a mayor. It has select men. Blew my fucking mind. Provincial. I am the most provincial like New Yorker you've ever met. Like, I don't understand. How small towns work at all? We'll talk a little bit about the one where we both lived briefly. But the idea of town being so small I didn't have a fucking mayor. Jess. Fold me having grown up with like Ed Koch the most famous mayor in the world. We didn't have at select men, by the way, I beat really picture the guys from the crucible. That's what I got in my head. That's the five white guys of the crucible. They probably will or the descendents of our of the metro, I guess, it's a work of fiction. So there's a direct line for those characters. And Arthur Miller play you know, what we're saying. Yeah. The Dobie pedantic piece of shit. That's my whole game. Here's my question is Quincy on the T. Yes. Then that's the thing that appears to be the thing where people will cut you a little slack. If you were on the greater Boston rapid transit system. People allow you to say. I'm from Boston. I have to take has to drive to wonderland. Oh, okay. That's her nearest east out. And what is that is that what is what is wonderland is? That is that like the purple liners end of the blue line. Oh, all right. It's near. Is it right near revere? Am I read about that just pass revere? Because that's where my sister would drop me off when I was come back from New Hampshire. She dropped me off at wonderland. I'd take the tea in there wasn't a dog track. Right there. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know too much about anything. I'm a cell. Sure. Boy. And then in town, you know, the sad thing for me. I love Boston so much. I never got to got to live there because I didn't I went to school, right? Where else I mean? I think to get to live in the in the city ever get kinda stolen valor on your part ground wearing that Boston merch everywhere. The Boston Strong's constantly. I I'm Quincy is next to Dorchester. And and then south the and and so it is and that it's the it's one over. Yeah. But I also say that I'm from Quincy. You're very you're very open about that. I go for I will say when I went to school. It's funny thing when I came out here to like I've said this to Nick before so often like Chicago guys will be like Chicago guy. I love him like he's one. And then like with the Boston person they're like bustle bustling off. I like you. You might be an asshole there's a huge chance that you're I don't like you. That's so funny when I meet people from New York out here from New York City, and that's a whole. Distinct boroughs, right? Oh, yeah. I know there are five very distinct boroughs, and they are delineated as and they name every one of them in the film Gotti who John Travolta. I will say this. I have to see I hear it's just you just need to see it. Then areas called the deuce. They want be not anymore. But it was that was nickname in the explains the show the deuce. There you go. Yeah. That's hasn't been revealed in what I've seen. So far of the has it. For granted. You can actually see the block I grew up in the opening credits event show. No way, you're gonna watch it more of a forty four th between ninth and tenth in the opening credits of the deuce and my wife sits on the couch next because that's where your parents decided to raise you. That's where your parents in their infinite. Wisdom said we show raise our only child are single air. We will raise here. Was it was it a tough? The fucking seventies in the west forties. I was three blocks from Times Square. Crazy. That's that's so just because even just thinking of growing up in Boston in the eighties in like there was the combat zone on a couple of places that were bad. All right. Where's the comments at Dorchester? Help us out here. Close to your school in colleges. Now, it's in Dino bus in. Well, it's right downtown on the corner of the comments of and boylston if you went down into Chinatown till like downtown crossing the whole area was the combat crazy to go to to be your. I said I wanted to go to Emerson. My dad looked on a map and was like oh fuck. No that's in the combat zone. And let's just go look at it. But it's all mayor Menino came in Mersin bought up all those buildings and made it into their campus cleaned it up. Let me just used to be really rough in Boston right now still is a little rough sometimes streets that you don't necessarily want to be on late at night interesting. But it's it's relatively safe walking. I mean, it's kind of like I mean, how New York except. Yeah. Some areas it's a city you have to walk like, you know, you can't just like walk around like an idiot. You have to know that you're going like be aware of your surrounding contact. Yeah. Still there in the Commons at night can get a little hairy. Obviously means like. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Let me just say I want to say that once said you can't just walk around like an idiot, Nick smile. Then start staring at. Of course, I walked around boss-like immediate pass that low doing let me let me just say that like hearing you guys talk about this hyper specific Boston geography. It must be how most of our listeners feel hearing us talk about Star Wars planets. Would we want to catch chic and Dagoba an end door? People are just like oh well with the fuck these nerds going on about. You definitely don't wanna be Mustafar. Well, what is most that? Vader's? That's that's in the Alaba three. Yep. Okay. You don't wanna be on Mustafar? You don't want to be out on far late at night. It can be it can be pretty rough place today with all that lava generally speaking. The lava is it and then Darth Vader took up a home there. He he in great schools. MU far you. In thirty seconds. There will be a red bubble shirt. Says thanks to that reference. Someone on T public's gonna go buck wild with that. And now it stands for marvel universe. Anyways. It's the same difference. Nick. If you ask me their marvel movies now. Borrow Sade against the modern Star Wars. That's right. We're not going to spend the next night discussing this whole thread here because I remember being a boy in Boston. And being like, oh, this is a city in this is nerve racking in scarier, whatever. And I can't imagine. What's like seventies? New York isn't just he's your in just blocks and blocks that are nothing. And it was scary. I won't say it took me years to realize how how I have a mild low key PTSD from growing up there and no disrespect to my parents, they meant well. And there is something kind of cool about being able to say I grew up in New York, then, but yeah, we home to find our house ransacked twice docks. Docs, got mugged a few times where I was fourteen. I don't recommend that. There are other grislier stories about things that happened to friends of mine that would really drag down this podcast bet. She's and so, yeah, it was it's it was a very he's a strange place, man. It was a really really strange place. This was Ford to New York drop dead. The city was in dire financial straits. Yeah. Can I ask? Can I ask what we're question about this late is it is truly in it? I mean, the I know the answer already. But I'm saying like does that does add character to a city? Right. I mean, I know it's not a good thing to have to have people, you know, living in bad areas and not living below the poverty line, and and crime and murdered and murder and crime. I'm saying I'm saying like they're people now, though, when they talk about New York, they're like, whatever, it's Disney fi, or whatever, I don't know. Well, I if I don't know whose middle class and living in New York. Yeah. Nyum possible to be middle class in that city the the pendulum swung so far. Because that now like, yeah. This gritty dirty areas. Now, Eminem store only frequented by tourists. It's like even a lot of the a lot of the local establishments in New York. A lot of the beloved local businesses have been driven out. Now, it's like a chase Bank or a or you know, a Jimmy Johns. Is corporate America better than the way thing is I don't know. I mean that is of course, it's better than murder. I guess right. But isn't it probably better than you know, there's there was a little pocket after Giuliani gets credit for cleaning Times Square, which is entirely accurate. Time square was was falling apart just because the free market said a we have home video. Now, you do not have to go to a room full of strangers and look at pornography album. So those eaters all closed very quickly. They actually still prefers that method. Doing my best to keep them afloat. Good for you. Good for you. There's the appealingly retro about that. But now is very clear thing of just the free market will not sustain this closing. And all these empty old theaters there, and I kind of wish they'd sold it to somebody maybe a little smaller than Disney or sold off chunks of it rather than. Doc, it it really changed the change time square. You really did change. It just set the shock wave throughout the entire city. Yeah. And now, I've got people who are getting priced out of Ridgewood, queens, which is a two trains and a bus while town that's crazy about mass places where like live out there when I was growing up know, they were they were the hinterlands they were still New York City, but they were way the hell out there. And I know people who are having trouble who were looking at rents in LA because yes, they are cheaper than living in New York and made imagine those theaters when you first buy what they'll probably like giant, spider webs. They were giants brighter, but they were also like old vaudeville houses too. So you had these incredible old aside from whatever gross jokes. You wanna make about the floor. They were these incredible old like perceive neom houses that had wings space, and all this cool stuff and a couple of turned into legitimate theaters. That's eight and a couple of them were like kind of the kept the exteriors turned and gutted them and turn them into multiplexes or a Chili's. There's a few places there's three actual like theater theaters on the block, right? I don't know. I mean, I feel like I wish it wasn't such an all or nothing proposition. Yeah. The transformation of New York. Yeah. I really wish there had been a slightly gentler transition, no more murder, but then also still middle class families. Yes. So couple of small businesses here. And there wouldn't kill you gotta be a way for us to have less crime. But also, you know, we can keep the occasional mom and pop coffee. Shop open. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. That's a it's also speaking of which when you went to college you went up to you move away from New York City. Yes. And you went to apply. That we both went to college. Great transition by me was good. Thank you fine. Yeah. I went to I went to ethica because I wanted I wanted something that would maybe you felt the same way. I wanted something that would be very funny you mentioned Emmerson I got into Emerson went and they had a great program, and I didn't get into a ton of school. So it wasn't like sifting through a ton of offers regular fall or this spring, but Emmerson felt like well if I go to Boston that's another big city. Yeah. I should really try and see what it's like to live somewhere small. Yeah. I did. I did feel similar that. I was like, oh, this will be fun. This'll be very college e and then I don't know if I regretted I mean like once it starts snowing in October or something then it's your. Brutal. And they last almost the entire year. It's really crazy the year before I graduated. They were snow at the graduation in. May. There was the my freshman year. There were snow at the graduation may as well. It's insane. Nikki would absolutely hate it. I w-. Yeah. I can't. I mean, I'm not like a coal lifelong, southern California. And so I do not take the cold. Well, like, I feel like we were just in. And I mentioned this on the shell. But we were just in Saskatoon. Saskatchewan for recent live that should be out in the field by now. And yeah, I felt like I was walking in a walk in freezer. It was like it was so and it wasn't even as cold as it gets there. It gets colder. It gets much colder. It was negative. It was like negative forty today. Like the in the last year. So that's like central Canada. Right. That must have been crazy. And imagine what that's like. But you would you you'd get up in the morning, shower, you go to your eight AM class and your hair would freeze. Oh, yeah. For sure you're here would freeze would show up with frozen hair for your eight AM intra to poetry with. Kevin Murphy who I think is still teaching there. Oh, yeah. The guy from mystery science theater that would have been awesome, right? Like Jack Nicholson frozen at the end of the shining frozen. It would would have an actual icicle. Banging against your forehead, your light. Light reading hitter, wreck key and Sylvia Plath. It was intense, man. Yeah. So windows up. There was was very bad to a win kills you. Because it comes off the lake and it hits us right at the top of that hill. Yeah. It was. You know? It's funny. I it's such a weird town. It's so it's such a progressive community. They have their own. This is always so hard to explain I'm going to need somebody to help me out here. They have their own currency. Okay. Yeah. Called Ithaca hours. Yeah. Which you can use in local businesses city. This. This pity has its own currency. Yes. They I think the name of the maybe has changed. Okay. But but yes, they they did to Clinton money local and to keep it in invested in the smaller businesses that are in that town. There was a McDonald's on the Commons. When I was there. But that was it as far as downtown Ithaca goes there. No other. That's crazy. Because that that I think that maybe had closed, but there is that is something that's changed. I want I want their recently. There was like a subway on the com-. Really there used to be nothing. There used to be just all locally owned restaurants. And there's a comic book shop down there, and there were record shops, and in the McDonald's, it was kind of an outlier, but they were open really early. So you had like, you know, if you happen to be on the comments like six AM someplace, we'll get you a Cup of coffee or I don't know if I ever saw the at six AM, actually, I wrote crew. So I actually did. That's true. You're an early riser for that would kill when I would wake up at like five AM and then go to bed at like nine. Don't you have to do that for like because you you're an actor? Don't you have to do that for an early? Sometimes. Yeah belly. How often are you up for like at the crack it on a couple times a week? Yeah. Couple times a week. What is your team when you're up that early? And you're you're going to set and it's like five or six AM. I it's really weird because I don't consider myself a morning person. I do. You love having Olympic boulevard to myself for I'm gonna have to go over to century city to shoot and that can be a hike and that if I have a normal person's call of nine AM, that's an hour. Minimum. That's an hour. And that's an hour with ways taking me on these dangerous left turns through like Chevy at hills or whatever that stresses me out I driving and like when I have to make a fucking unprotected left turn and one of these apps did give me the extra four minutes. And they'll let me take a major street with a protected left. Turn. What are you doing to me? You stressing me out yelling at the ways. Go strike the ways ghost. I am. They waste doesn't care. If I live or die. That's that's that's that's why that's why the that is why it's ghost cause ways was the guy who's on killed. Well, it's dark dark history. The yes, six AM. Call is awesome. AM call I leave at like five forty four an I teleport there. It's great. That is that is the that is the one thing that rules about the six AM call there's. Yeah. It's it's you'd never see the city like that. It's insane. It's funny. Most we have huge chunks of our crew that live deep valley or the beach cities and the most like oh God. That's how do you? Oh god. No, you're here. First year. First in last out crew members on an issue. You have a fifteen minute commute. Either direction. Does not matter people coming up from Manhattan beach, can do I can do it in this like under twenty. It's insane provided their their first thing, which they have to be then they're all set damage thing. My thing with early warning. I wonder how you feel about this with early very early mornings in Nick being onset, or whatever you get this. I love to eat. I don't like to eat early in the morning insurance. Do it. I my my first meal is usually at lunch because it will upset my stomach if it's just if it's like if I'm up at five AM. Or something like that. I usually don't like to eat our bar and a Cup of coffee. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. And then I just eat the casing. My ledge comes in eight. I've been doing lately is a do the AM banana. That's all that's my little bit of fuel. Very millions. 'cause I'm like grew despicably franchise and all the millions. You think that's why I'm picking an it's not for that. Just you dick is I'm aware. Thirty nine thirty eight thirty nine thirty eight. Okay. I know about Nixon there's a while there. I thought it was ironic. No, no. It's pretty it's free genuine. Yeah. I don't I don't dislike the minions. There are a lot of I have children after. All right. I enjoy the odd million. Sure that if you've been to evolve into the three ride at universal. Yeah. It's notes you have notes looking holy shit. No. I actually is not what you want it to be like despicable me minion mayhem. What I would say is that I just find like three d dark right experience a little it gives a little motion sickness and so like in terms of spending time with my minion friends. I dunno like a physical ride where I could go on a track and sort of like wave it. I'm like, maybe like even to something gentle. You a small world style monsters Inc. Experience the adventure like the Winnie the Pooh ride at Disneyland. Something where you know. You're you're seeing some physical three d models of them that just might be fun. You done. I just did this for the first time the other day done the transformers ride at universal. Yes. I've done it. It's exhausting. It is it's a lot. It is a lot. Yeah. I actually had to close my eyes and tell myself it wasn't happening for a moment or two. It's a it's a it's your on attrac- moving. And also it is like three d really good three. Right. Did you find the all spark though, there also? Alls Mark is that is what it's about all about the osbournes. You get Ebner fighting over the all spark, and you're you're a transformer into your arms that come out, and it's a whole thing. And but yeah, the all spark is like the macguffin that triggers the entire ride, and this is red con macguffin into all spark at this point. Term it is it was a different man than I was before. I took the transformers. There's there are people who are changed coming off. The my metabolism is different. I don't process grief the way, I should I'm I'm just a very different man having done the transformers three d ride you parked Honda fit at the curb, and then it turned into you. It was like, oh, man. It's loud. There. You get eaten by a big robot? Monce you get sucked into its mouth. And yes it happens because Maggie sucks you her mouth to in this mistrial. Daij Maggie gets mutated. She she becomes very big. Is she wanders into something at the nuclear plant. She's not his grandpa Simpson. Sweet asleep. That's right. That's a good script the the Simpsons ride by Matt Warburton? I believe I was. Yeah. Warburton? Yeah. He's he's he rules. There's there's a lot of good jokes in that. Right. And it has a lot of the same. But that's more like a California. What is it? Soaring, california. Yes, right. I'm gonna go up, and there's some movement, certainly, but it's not three D, And you can kinda convince yourself that it's not happening happening, which I struggled with with the transformers. I was getting devoured by car. There's at one great thing where you go through an office building. Yes. That's that is kind of amazing now rules, I think with all those rides. They kinda like fade like the Simpsons ride is like faded. And that's only just like. Is that what you mean? I'm saying like, yeah. Like like the screen like looks like faded and in not as good anymore. I'm sure the screen has some wear and tear. And I also heard that was like this was a big Roger Ebert crusade is that he talked about the bulb that was used for rejection. A lotta times they just like they'd run it for so long well past the point where it would had dimmed. And so a lot of a lot of hitters and just the pig which is look dim because this was back when they used film projectors because they just weren't replacing it because it was expensive to do. So that could be a similar sort. It could be what it is. Yeah. Back quickly. Yes, please. I want to hear some of your favorite spots to eaten. Ithaca good question. Are you a shortstop deli person, occasionally, usually I love shortstop person was good? What was the place that just had a car drive into it? A few years ago on the corner of the Commons. You song? What what place? Did you drive your car into ale house? Mahogany grille. Mahogany, grille lines. What are you doing? What? Sorry. Okay. Bye. Happened through the options of what could've been it was it was the place where it was literally the bottom of the hill. And if you were coming down the hill coming down ninety six oh any looked at that restaurant. But the only matter of time before someone loses control of their brains and eventually happened. And it wasn't like it wasn't on purpose thing, you know, a car lost control and drove into it. And but that was a really kind of cute little place for good people watching there. There was a place called. Oh god. What was the pizza place? There was a decent like kind of New York style. Pizza place called serve an end. Wait Napoli's was Napalese. They have great wings Napoli's Napoli still there Natalie still there is is it the it's like off the Commons Napoli's is still there. Oh, good. That was really that was like a nice slightly not quite just we're gonna grab a slice just a notch above that place. It is college town bagels was very reliable bolivars up which was actually a deli. That would do my band played there. A couple of times my senior year. What was the other place? My father went to Colgate. Which is in handled. Oh, yeah. I bet Aaron half away and he used to and he'd get shit faced at the chapter house. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I never really went to the house that much, but that's like a famous one great. And as I said, they didn't drink in college. But they made their own root beer ginger ale. Yes. Brew house, but they also made soft drinks that were really good. Yeah. I I wrote against I wrote against Colgate. I wrote crew against and I was just thinking of how that sounds like the Dushi est thing on earth. You know, why you're off the hook. And you're probably gonna be able to my senate's because. Yes, the crew guys were not great who was worse than the crew guys. God they had their own house at the base of the south hill. When I was there. More family house lacrosse team. Bingo. The fucking lacks guys. Oh, worst people in the world there are there are a few crew guys. I like, but I didn't I didn't. I didn't I didn't fit in with fit in really with anyone is the truth are never have never will or most places physically. Why would you can't you can't shame for that show where you're all about chain restaurants washed all of US House several Little Caesars pizzas. And you're gonna shame. Mike. Yeah. This is true. You're right. I should do that last gimmick. It is stick you are selling out the entire conceit of the podcast Anchalee fucking monster. Tell freshman is the Addams family house at the bottom. Yeah. Not freshman before the internet, especially. That was really house. Cool the shot up here. Fucking didn't. Beautiful Torian like, and it's really gorgeous look at Israel. Cool. They say that because they say that it was like the first how was Hollywood before. There was Hollywood. There was film production. Yes. We're also what a like if if they chose to have Hollywood indicate would have been the worst decision different south three weeks where you can be outside there. And they're here probably about like three channels still now because no one would have gotten they go up there and be like, I'm not going to be an entertainment. This is too cold. I'm out of here and sucks, but rod Serling was was the he taught at he was a professor at for. And he they they hold his archives. The rod sterling archives up there. Spooky Helmick scary. Who was? A year ahead of me. But I didn't know him was David boreanaz. Oh, yes. Yeah. This was in ninety two I didn't know him modems himself. But it was my he wasn't the the dish Anelka was bones. Say this having played a suspect on the show. He David boreanaz. Not. Oh that bone of the characters. That's the whole thing. CCA's Pounder also. That's right. I got a chance to speak to her about it. I have other ethica limbs. I've I've spoken to who have gone onto any daily. I know is there with my okay daily was my years. It was in ninety two. Okay. And a guy named Terry Jin who was a big New York guy back in the late nineties. He was they were all those are the guys who were like, you should try this. I know them my career in no uncertain terms of entertainment. Professor, I just feel bad that really fell off. I'm the I'm the new I'm like the gremlins to your guys trembling swan. Now, there's a lot of Broadway guys who came out of your not no one's blaming you for the decline. There's a lot of guys. Did you ever go to loose woods and ethic which have the cashew chilly over there? And yeah, the cash you Chilean, arguably the most famous sharing restaurant in the country, they cookbook, it's pretty famous that's been in like eighty printing famous restaurant, Nick how is this cashew Chile? Is it get not bad? It's not bad. Yeah. I've dealt with some because I've I haven't countered a number of vegetating Chili's. And and it is a dish that I felt like the vegetarian version of never found one. That's quite satisfying. No, listen, you got to go in there, knowing it's cashew chill, and it will not fool you. Yeah. It's for what it is. It's like a Hertie vegetarians do. And that's one thing about. One of the good things benefit for me was that it kinda opened my eyes about fish sharing cuisine. Tried a lot more tofu for the first time in Africa. It's because on the one hand it such a progressive hippie town, and it's so spiritual and you can buy so many dream catcher's in so many locations in that town, and there's the one hand, and I've made the shirt before it's true, the one hand we like my God what a gorgeous progressive utopia and on the other hand you like put some shoes on your enemies Ziam. There's this incredible one hundred percent, and you I think we're allowed to have that sort of push poll of like, this is great. Jessica shower. And then also then you drop in a drop of of Brohi baseball hat wearing college guys, which I looked like when I went there. But there's a lot of that as well. I saw an extra layer of because I studied to be an English teacher, and I did my student teaching Ithaca high. Oh, so I went the reason I was on the Commons at six AM a bunch my senior years because I was up at the crack to get to school by eight and bummed a ride with a drive yet. I've grew up in New York City allies and a girl named Jessica used to give me a ride to Ithaca high school because we were both teaching English arriving. There would get there early for the kids got there. So I saw this huge and highs fascinating was you had? Farmers kids, and you had Carl Sagan's kids in the same class. Cross son had just graduated the year before man and. Two sections of tenth grade two sections of twelfth grade lit, and it was it was really interesting because there were some really beautiful posh parts of Africa and the resort really shitty. Parts of Africa. And there were there was public housing down near down near the not the lake, but the creek couple of little I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Where the railroad track is literally there was another side of the track to ethica. And so I got to see and I remember like like walking home with a bunch of kids one day just because we were all headed in the same direction. And I was like well, not technically teacher, and we are hope for all walk with these kids for a little while they were living in like really really run down homes in part in parts of that. I had never let it only driven through. So it was a really interesting eclectic place, and it kind of slowed my heart rate in a way that I needed. Yeah. From coming from New York City, it really did kind of like, you know, I still had all this sort of weird misdirected anger and stuff. But it was it calmed me down in a way that I think a an urban university wouldn't have. Yeah. Commodore gummy more angry. I wanna read the opposite effect on you. It makes me wanna move to like, I gotta go like a small cold weather town for a few years. I got a dead get out of by by red of being inside, southern California. You're you're you're southern California bubble Nick, they know what I can recommend having visited if you want California's Ithaca Santa Cruz. Oh, yeah. About Santa Cruz was that accrues even to Santa Cruz five from Santa Cruz. Definitely right. There's something very, and it is a. It's a college college town. It's a big college town like a huge part of the economy, Jordan Morris, Jesse thorn, both Santa Cruz alone. That's right. We talked about it. I did their podcasts. Actually, we talked about. The comparisons towns, and there is something very laid back yet still, but not like Venice, California laid back like, you know, Hermosa beach laid back laidback intellectualism is what I think you would you would thrive in whiter. And I think Santa Cruz have that in common, but you have none of these snow issues. Yeah. Have you go the time? I was probably hate you. I got a question for you. Carl Sagan's was his was his son like a bully amazing. He was a kid get fit giving kids wedgies fantastic. Oh my God. You know what? Let's. Let's read the. Yeah. Carl Sagan kid vicious virulent misogynists and just really stuff being to a locker. And I was a student teacher. What the fuck? What the fuck? Remember starts now. If we're going to ever going to bring up topics from ten minutes ago to say a joke who've been sitting on can I do the same. Yeah. Hey, your dad went to Colgate university. What he major influencing. Good stuff straughn, very very strong out as you. Can you guys? You know, Nick, my father is no longer with us. But I will mic. What the hell? I apologize. You. Make this phony joke about his dad as coaching your team when it happened. Okay. Was that true? I knew I know it's only. I can't help but bring a party down. Sometimes it really is before the dead. Dad card is a very fun card to play. I my dad is dead as well. It's it's just a very it's a fun card to play due to you a lot to the ecosystem around. So roughly so glee. Just a seismic shift in the room. Hey, Nikki nowadays, you could probably major in flopping anyways. The other flaw, the dancer kids do port tents. Just rubbed his eyes. He's continuing to rub his eyes. This is a visual medium, but he is rubbing his eyes. A man who is like at the end of his rope. The negotiating table as as as little surface areas. There is I is it's massive as hands are still getting a good rub in there. I was a baris- those very Barish by that joke. So then you you went down to the you went back to New York City after ethica, dad. Yeah. And and you're you stay there for years before you came out here to LA I was in. I was in New York for another eight years. Yeah. I moved back, and I went back to teach for one year old high school, actually, which was exhausting and. It might have been maybe if I'd taken a break and God grad school and then gone back. But I was twenty two years old, right? Looked about eighteen and a bunch of teachers new me there are a couple of students who are on the six year plan who are like dude, you're my gym class. That's great nuts. You should tell people that man, that's bad that reflects poorly on you. You don't tell people. Yes. I did that for eight year. I was a long-term Saab, and they they weren't able to offer a full-time position. And I didn't like it wasn't a, you know security is gonna show you out. I was like, listen, I'm gonna go at peace. This is I'm technically being laid off. But it's really fine. I'm okay, I'm exhausted. I need to figure out what I'm doing. And then. Yeah. Just like there was the band, and there was temping. And there was kind of all this twentysomething stuff before. All those guys talked me into taking improv. Oh, no way. Okay. Cool. So I keep saying I got a question for you. Relax, right. New York City. I mean, they claim to have the best pizza in the world. Are you are you? Are you big pizza person was and are you like a New York slice guy? You can't be beat raise famous raise. Or whatever the million raise. There's a million raise. I've been I've been to the actual good raise before. And it was good. It was plenty of raised that suck. Yeah. There are plenty of raised its second the idea that you I mean, I am the painting that like bad pizzas still going to be pretty good. Even if you remember Rogan's. Oh, yeah. Rugged sucked. Yeah. We're still in a pinch. It would do it worked. Yeah. Yeah. Rogan's was this chain not to change just went off place on right off campus, and they did incredible business because you could get. Pie enforce mall, Pepsi's for five bucks. And it was basically like was it like a convenience store gas station. Like, it's it's like, yeah. It was very much. But it was it wasn't bad. It wasn't terribly. Not good. But it was not good. Well, not really wasn't prickly spicy it had. No it was. It was just a pizza like food would bring and took no time at all. And he didn't have to go all the way down the hill, and it was cheaper than Domino's. Yeah. Yeah. And it was it would and Napoli's didn't deliver. And it was a whole thing. So. Yeah Rogan's, but so Rogan's got me through untold late nights at that place. There are crappy raise in New York. But there's a great places. There was a place. It was called it's gone now. Anyway, there's a place right near central park that my mom, and I used to go to all the time that it was like a buck fifty first Lysenko. And that was really that was a great deal even in the eighties. Right. John's pizza on bleeker the brick oven place. Okay. That's really good. That's a really good kind of sit down. They don't do slices. But that's a really good sit down plays pizza box further down on bleeker for just a simple slice thing. Places in the west village. And then if you get over to little Italy, of course, you're in really safe hands all those places are really reliable. I've never I've never had like besides going to that. Like, the original raise or whatever I've never had like the the best of New York City pizza failing Mormon, and even when I've gone over there and done whatever del close marathon, or whatever I just have never. And I know that Connecticut has a couple big. Spots on the list, right, Nick. We went to a place in Arizona. That is is ranked one of the best pizza spots pizzeria, Bianco Janka. Young. I can't remember maybe pizza. It might be pizza Bianco. I dunno for the guy's name is just is just Bianco. That's what's called you'd think at some like fancy Italian word that means like, you know, like beautiful pizza or something like that. But now Bianco which is his name. But they probably mean something if you go back to maybe. We'll take a break way back aboard Doboy. Welcome back to Doboy us, our guest, John Ross Bowie. A native New Yorker are chain a pizza chain Little Caesars based in Detroit, originally, John. So we're talking about pizza a little bit before the break. Detroit style pizza, which is one of the ones that we had here. Let's take a step back even further from that. You have never had Little Caesars before this is your first time. This was my first time. Yes, what is your what was your overall assessment? Because you've had a bunch of imagine a your share of chain pizza and your life. The great slices you had grown up in New York overall assessment right now. No, I'm I'm curious like how like how did it compare versus? You got the Domino's pizza Hut's the Papa John's of the world. Did you did you find it like in that sort of ranged at anything separated? Well, all all chain pizza's going to have what appears to be an extra layer of grease. Yes, uses preservative or something. I don't know why it's there. But so given that it's going to be very greasy. It. The crust is thinner which I prefer. Yes. Yorker than your average, Domino's your average Pizza Hut. And that puts it in a little higher in my estimation. That a lot of those other chains I have to say interact for for a thin crust. I agree with that Domino's like, especially if you get just the regular plain, Domino's pizza can be almost tough. Sometimes it's it can be tough to get through inclined to agree. Yeah. Although as much as I like, Domino's we gentleman owes for what it's worth it did best Little Caesars among the many other combatants in last year. Save Thomas Cup. Munch madness. The tournament of champions in one one pizza when the pizza competition won the slices. Right. But I think I think that Little Caesars is is quite good. And I like it quite a bit. I'm a fan, and I will say that this is a big thing. Let's start with this is the thing that kind of transformed a Little Caesars, or at least exceleron their trajectory, and sort of reinvigorated the chain was in two thousand four inch. Reduced the hot and ready pizza there. Five dollar full pizza. That's just like you walk in there. And it's just ready to go. You can walk out with it and five seconds and from that point for that at a whole bunch of locations. They got over five thousand nationwide right now, they really they really kind of exploded there because they were like the most value conscious of the major pizza chains the hot and ready cheese. We got. Which by the way, it's is huge. Pizza. Nobody would know. But no, I'm saying I'm saying just the idea of having five dollar five dollar pizza that you can get any. You have got like, maybe you've got a family, and you're trying to feed them on a budget. The idea that you get one or two of those and have enough food is ten dollars. Families. Yeah, he's not. I think the hot and ready cheese is and you know, it only comes at a couple of varieties. But I think the hot and ready is a good pizza. I think it's very solid like rightly. I think definitely taking price factor into the the the the amount costs into it, especially right. It's it's good. Yeah. It was solid. It was solid chain pizza. It had a just a little again chain. So we're gonna have a super kick to it. But it had a little bit of a little spice to it. And it was nice. It was thin layer of grease that made it a little crunchy on the bottom, which I don't necessarily mind. Yeah. Finished crust. I kind of want to talk about the other ones we ordered though the hot and ready all due respect to the hot and ready and the wonders that it's doing yes. Or the working class? I I wanna I some very interesting. We got we got some weird. We'll get into this lecture. But Mitch was real quick your assessment of the hot and ready. I like I thought it was a good. It's basic like you guys are saying basic slice. But it was it was good absolutely gets the job done. Nothing objectionable with it. I would compare it favorably. I think the Costco is better Cosco pizza's better but same sort of. Yeah. I'd rather have a Costco slice. But really? Here's my thing. Is that I liked the Costco slice over on the custom. But they're almost feels like there's too much going. It's very doughy. And that's what you have to consider about the Costco pizza, but like the like at that similar price point. And you know, like, I it's just something that you can there's very filling on a budget, and is very like very kind of down the Middle East pizza. I think it absolutely accomplishes a similar thing. But rank them as you see him. Yeah. Let's talk about these other pies. The thin crust veggie. So this is a green peppers onions, mushrooms black olives and. Talion seasoning. What do they call it? They call that the tavern cut when they've got like the into rectangles, whatever that is the pub cut. It is a and this one is like if you haven't had their thin crust. It's similar to the Domino's thin crust. Just like that sort of wafer thin. Like with these square ones that you get the middle portions that don't have any at all. And you get the edge pieces. There'll lacrosse tier Abou it what you think of this one a little mild and the thing about a chain restaurant giving you vegetables on their pizzas. So they're not going to be the freshest for. Sure. Absolutely. They do thing though, with with their veggie option is that it's mostly all of the hall. Mushrooms? What was what were the other vampires maybe some peppers? And hey, you know, I mean, I love all. And maybe some our listeners out there also love olives hashtag, I'm Popeye new. You're going to do that you place the cod. I knew it was coming. But you know, I like, but it is like the dominant element of this. And if you don't like that, I'm a Wimpy for sure. Take him a Wimpy if you'd prefer cheeseburger on Tuesday that your friend paid for to some black olives. The the the the I like the green peppers on it. Nice quantity green peppers, some good Christmas doing realize that you're kinda like Popeye Natalie's kinda like olive oil, and I'm like Bluto. Except you also don't have power where you eat spinach and turn strong now, I get spinach and diarrhea. Which is a power to itself. Don't sell yourself. Yeah. I mean, this one's not the most I guess what it comes down to with with your vegetarian and you're eating at a chain pizzeria. Do I want the veggie or do? I want the cheese because those are pretty much interested. It wasn't that. Like, you're not gonna get the. Heavy for a reason. I think I think so so bad they're going to go. Yeah. I. Yeah. I it was it was fine. It was a solid, you know, a solid little vegetarian option. Yeah. I also think too that Italian seasoning, however, much they're using it. They're they're laying it on a little light. I didn't really taste the difference there versus the other one seasoning wise. Fair the deep deep dish. Okay. Three Meech treat. Yeah. And here we're getting their branding a little bit. There's a lot of the pizza pizza thing. Which was a. Remember that? I mean, you guys you guys remember the Little Caesars ads. No. I mean, they're still air. They're still airing. Yeah. But they've always had the same sort of tone, the sort of offbeat sort of, you know, ironic surreal tone that I like I've always enjoyed them. I've always found them very very entertaining. I was gonna say this for my wrap up. But I might as well do it. Now. There's no other the Noida has gone. There's no other pizza mascot that we can ru pizza mass yet who's the other pump John we both don't like Papa John just a bad, man. Sox two. I'm sorry. That is not good. I honestly, I'm not letting my my confirmation ballot bias, or my politics cloud that he makes shitty pee one forked. It. I mean, it was pretty are less. Experience was pretty unpleasant. See little Caesar Caesar's. He's the he's the the only he's the only one there is unless you're counting. The the frozen pizza mascots. You wanna throw in the red baron in and we'll come on, mama. Celeste thought is this left and the Tony's pizza shit list here with momma so ask the fucking, mama. Celeste almost conic frozen milk. I know. Sinn your Stouffer. Mama. Celeste is a sweet old Italian lady. Talk. You've never I mean, maybe back in the eighties. There was a commercial with mama. Celeste zero recollection. Yes. If consumer of television at the time, I know. Any presented Gatien, mama. Celeste signed for me picture on the box is eludes me tireless, I know. She's basically Livia soprano, but. Personality disorder killer. CGI ready for that last creepy. But yeah, I always liked the marketing and pizza pizza was part of it, you know, and that sort of because a lot of their branding has things doubled up. And this is one of them the deep deep dish three Meech, treat a Detroit style. Deep dish pizza with pepperoni sausage bacon. This is what I was going to ask we're coming back from break. John Detroit style pizza. How do you have an opinion on that? I normally don't dig the midwestern deep dish though interest. So it's toppings to toppings for me put the right topping on it. I'm gonna eat it. But it's not something I seek out for some reason. I really like the. I just feel like you're going to get more flavor. If you've got a thinner crust. I got you. I it becomes it becomes very bready. There's there's you have to have a big base of dough to make the work. I do I think I enjoyed that. I have to say the three meets I dug it. I remember the first time these commercials were on for these things in Harris whittles, our our old friend was like that looks good as hell I'm going to get it. Yeah. And he got any brought it up to his house. And I try to piece and I was like this is really good. It's really good. It's it's like I was like that's show. I'm shocked like I saw this commercials. Like that looks good. I wonder if it would taste as good as I think, and I try and I was like it tastes just like how I thought it would quickly like, yes. Like paid off immediately. That is very satisfying. It was it was it was it was one of the first time that I feel like that's ever happened. And I liked that square style a little bit more than Chicago deep dish. I think that it's not there's not as much going. There's Mitch you're saying this like a week in front of our show. Chicago live. You're going to be pilloried when you were there working your Boston Celtics at. The Chicago Reggie out on a rail. That's still that's like almost like hockey rink pizza or something that the deep dish square. Gotcha. It's still substantial, but it's not like Chicago like where eat one slice. I mean, this is that thing Casaroli. Yes. This this will fill you up. But it's it's it's still feels really good way that might be my beef with with deep dish. And I say this with the safe knowledge that them not going to Chicago with you. It's Passarelli where. Yeah. I. Always felt that about you. Thank you for saying that I feel like Casaroli is exactly might be with with the midwestern deep dishes. He's gonna be so proud of this wordsmith thing. I just said I didn't. I don't think I've coined calling cata casserole like thing, it's the first time. I've I appreciate it. I will take the brace. This is based on. There's Buddy's pizza in Detroit. Yes. Which is which is great. Which is basically the same thing. These the square deep dish. Right. I will say that, you know, this is a place that originated in Detroit. And so I think they're trying to honor their, you know, their heritage a little bit with offering this. And I think it is a good execution of it. I've said this on the podcast before wholefoods specifically there three sixty five brand has a very good Detroit style pizza you ever want like a value slice. You know, I think that's a that's a really really good option. But this is like, and this is not quite that level of quality. It's also quite a bit cheaper. Even though the three sixty five one is still like, you know, like, relatively inexpensive. This is this is this is definitely more of a budget option. But this is still good. This is a good chain execution of a Detroit style pizza, and I say that someone who's never been Detroit. And may never go to Detroit. Probably not you probably will never go. I've been to Detroit have not had the pizza enjoyed it. Yeah. It's quite nice. But the by me, no authentic Detroit to compare it to I enjoyed what we had. It's pretty it. Does pretty well being buddies is amazing. But it does really it does it does a really really great job by the Smith of anything the Smith of wordsmith. I can have something like that too. Right. We'll come. You're rubbing your eyes. Again. This is something they're Smith. I smith. Forge is. Six Allegra nightmare. Got jealous of your compliment. That's all I can say to you very fond of you. Thank you, very fun to go back a little bit with Nick. But I'm very very fond of you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Can we get to the headliner of our of our course? Yes. That you guys sent me the menu. And I honestly don't know that I've ever looked at a little Caesar menu. And this one leap out at me because it combined two things that I love very much. And I think did so with a great deal of panache. So this is one I agree. Yes. This is one that is. It's offered only occasionally this is back. Maybe just for a limited time. There mcrib it's been off the menu. I think since twenty fifteen. Very very recent return. And we and it was such like it was enough of an event when they brought it back, and I it was kind of a soft launch of it. They sort of like a brought it back without announcing it and what do granted at nothing. Does you think soft launch just maybe? What are you? What are you picturing with soft launching? I swear why would that make you laugh, you know, who's talking right now the crew team? The crew team issues right now, Mike, you're better than this, man. I just feel like Natalie maybe has witnessed a few. Okay. Jesus. She my friend Nick Wijers on the day. Even workout anatomically. Work. So the pretzel crust pepperoni, we tested that the stuffed version of this which has cheese stuff to exterior with our buddy. Ryan mehari. Recent boys double episode. This is just the it's not vanilla flavored. But it's the vanilla the regular pretzel crust pepperoni read the menu description, a large buttery, soft flavored. I'll take a large buttery flavored soft. Pretzel crust pizza with creamy cheddar cheese. The fuck it's gonna keep all these takes in. It has the cream each has a creamy cheddar cheese sauce in the description is that on the pizza. Yes. So they have the sauce on the pizza is not in the cross mozzarella monster cheese. If you have the stuff crust, there is cheese within the the pretzel cross. But that's what I'm saying is like was this cheese sauce presence spread on the on the pizza? Okay. So let's going on. I didn't know there's no tomato sauce on that sauce. There's no mariner on there. There's nothing. There's no tomato product on the pizza. We're the I can't stop thinking about it. It's really it's really good. It's crazy when I doubled up on. Yeah. I had one of everything, but I had two of the council, and I can't stop thinking about it. It's so it's so it's very very very good. It's it's everything I like about pizza, and then it's on a pretzel. I love it so much. We were saying that this is this is this is a meal not for slugs because it's very salty. Right. We were saying that. I have not I'm not going to quench my thirst until the weekend. I'm sure I'm not I feel like a piece of beef jerky right now. But I I am I regret nothing. I did you like the factor because I think the facade factor. Use on your really turned off by that salt factor. Too salty for you saw salty for you song, very salty. But I you know, part of the journey. You know, listen pretzel right in the name, you're going to spec to certain baseline of salt. I think and man I was. I was there for it. I agree. I agree. A hundred percent, I it's very very very good. We were we said this Nick, this is the sort of thing that if you bring this to a Super Bowl party. You're a hero hero. You were the your Europe. There. You are a hero matter who wins on the screen. You have won the party bring to if you brought two or three these two because it doesn't even have to be the main dishes, grabbing it's it's it's really bring them to a brisk there. It's phenomenal. So good. So that getting brisk. What was what was your theme of your bar mitzvah again nervous? So yeah, we had we talked about this with Mary a little bit. And he brought it you know, he was he was pointing out how the salt is not just on the crust. It's on the pizza itself. It's on the slice. So there's aggressively salty to like salt like salt a lot. And I think this is this is just a fucking us. This this formulation on the show. This is a home run. This is like the this is such a fucking well done gimmick pizza. I had to have the fact that it was tomato sauce. Loose less. Made a sauce lists pointed out to me. I didn't miss it. You don't miss it. It's it's it's it's it's hard to it's. So it has such a great flavor to it that you you it just does it just goes over your head. It was so much else going on with the three cheeses, remember Oni? And that pretzel crossed man. I that the sauce was an afterthought. No biggie. I'll also say on the crust. I think they do a great job of not making it to pretzel Lee, particularly the the actual under side of the pizza part underside of the slice part because the basis of the pie Brett one. Sometimes I feel like pretzel buns oftentimes are just too crusty and pretzel lead to hammered too hard yet. But this one had a good softness rest off chew equality of the Pressel. Yeah. Yeah. Delightful and the principles are too thick to go through. No pretzel as thick as those brussel bunk right for a grid. Yeah. This is this was the clear winner of the bunch. We also had the some crazy bread breadsticks with butter and garlic sprinkled with. Masan cheese had a little bit of marinara dipping sauce, which you guys may. Or may not have taken advantage of what you saw. Can we get a quick inventory of the other dipping sauces? We had over there. And we had like the creamy, garlic. We had the jalapeno cheese. Right. Oh, sure. Sure ranch dressing and a buffalo ranch and Mitch you shot that buffalo ranch, right? Shots of the buffalo like shooter shot at like liquors back. God. After you guys. Go. Misha's houseman the crazy bread. I feel like every breadsticks feel similarly to garlic knots to why bother like why just have. I'd rather have another slice of pizza than than some crazy Brad or or make really good garlic bread. Yes. Yes. You got gotta be dynamite. Yeah. It's all pretty cardboard eight to my taste this field. This feels like leftover dough that they just it's an the price. Like, you know, they they they make the pizza. They they create the pizza crust. They have this leftover dough they turn it into into breadsticks like candy nerds. Yes. Yeah. It's just it's it's extra. It's we write this off as a law. So we could try to like, it's a thing. It's they're they're outcasts there. Oh, they're nerds great seller. That's what I feel like with crazy breadsticks, and and ever friend buddy of mine from Mike Falloon, he's actually from Syracuse. But he went with me, and he was drummer in my band who dome master at Pizza Hut, which is. All tied. And he he said, yes, absolutely. What we think it is? It's just it's excess crust. That's all it is. That makes scammed. Yeah. Little insider Intel. Hey, he's the dome Astor where the DOE boys. He's technically our boss. He would love it. He would love checker to it would be great kick back to the dome Astor needs to six points. The. Yeah. I think that I mean, if you're gonna call it crazy bread do something to it. It's not it's crazy in the way that like how mean you're being right now. No, I I love the Little Caesars it, this is crazy in the way that like you're like, a, you know, your friend at the offices like like people were under saying, I'm weird. And it's just like all right. How Little Caesars a part of this? Joe like, what do you want them to do you want to poor chocolate on it? Well, how do you want to? I just mean like do something a little bit more. It doesn't have to be outlandish. It doesn't have to be like inedible, but do little little extra a little a little make little spike. You want to just be called the bread. He'd be called regular Brent. All right fair enough. I I guess I get it this breads not being fifty one fifty two what I'm saying. Caesar wings. We also had oven roasted you have to remember that the places called Little Caesars. And this isn't like a Caesar flavoring. These are just they're straight up wings traditionally season oven roasted wings is how they described them forgettable for me a wing. It was it was I saw sign it, which is my bad. I probably should've sauced it up. I probably should try that Hannah opinion, but they had there. I will say that jalapeno cheese sauce. I think is like I don't love it. It's it's movie theater caliber, really great cheese sauce, the garlic dipping sauces, pretty good their ranches, very solid. But yeah, some of the some there's hidden miss. I thought it was like they kind of has like soggy kind of chewy wing like like all the dominoes are every other wing that gets delivered. Yeah. Very tiny most small very small, but I will say that. Yeah. Which kind of is like man, I must have been a small chicken or a young chicken or something. I don't know. Yeah. They're deal of chickens possible. Possibly these chickens are having bad lives. That's what you feel your tastes for sure. But, but I I will say that it didn't have the taste of it wasn't like sometimes you can buy into those, and they like will taste almost metallic or something. Right. And they'll they'll be very I've had some dominos buffalo wings make me feel sick as soon as I bite into it. And these aren't like that they tasted. Okay. Just kind of not great the great. Yeah. They're not great. But not great. I would I would skip them. I would say don't get them. I don't think there's any reason unless you let someone is demanding wings and Little Caesars as the chain of choice. De refusing to do carbs. You would have to eat like thirty of those wings. I feel like they're small even full order is not a meal for one person. It's they are they're very very modest. And that's the full did. I miss anything. That's the full roster of of items. We had we had the we had the four pizzas we had some slices of we had the crazy bread and the and the and the wings, and that's most of what Little Caesars offers. The only thing we missed mitch's the extra most bestest actually most best is we didn't do which we've eaten we ate at last year for the pizza tournament. We did. And it's good. And it basically like here's about thing. It's really good. We should've got we should've gotten you. What what is it? That is extra and most bestest about it. There's more cheese on it. More top more toppings. Duly cheese. Topping when when our buddy, Mike Hanford, and I were working together on a a writer's room last year. So less year. The no like last year, we we went to a Little Caesars, and he asked the woman working there. How the extra bestest was. And she was like it's too much for me. And I think that is the assessment of some people just like little overloaded bridge. Too far interesting, right. I disagree with her big time. But well, yeah. For Mike Mitchell, more is more when it comes to. You saw laughed at that. One. He covered his. I'm not gonna hurt you. He knows you're not the one who signs his paychecks. Paychecks. That I mean vouchers for classes at all, right? Well, let's get to our final thoughts on Little Caesars. So Barry, here's how this will work will each go around give sort of a closing argument, if you will reference to this chain, and then give it a rating from zero to five forks, your guest, we will begin with you. Okay. You know, I. I think you get a lot of bang for your buck with these guys. I appreciate it. The crust work. Oh, yeah. I there's one. Five blocks from my house. Maybe. Wow. That I've never set foot in and you know, in a pinch that might change. Now, this this might be a place that I go to. I can't I got come short of five right? For because I'm really just talking about how obsessed I am. With this limited time offer of the price. Oh crash shore. You know? So that does keep me from going all in on Little Caesars. But a solid four four four. That's great score. Very good score. Especially from someone with a lot of experience eaten pizza. Mike mitchell. Your turn. Pizza pizza, Nick the chain. So nice. It says it twice. Hot. Get back to work on those is for. Yeah. What am I feel like this is Michigan's last show? I was gonna try to make some joker earlier about how you should be a. You should become the guy at brisk the memorial saying should be a Moyle timeout that you call them, brisk. Take our prisoners. I understand you're from. My wife is from there are Jews in Boston I pronounce it like the ice the ice tea Lipton. I see. A ceremonial circumcision themed iced tea brand. Yeah. The chain. So nice you say twice lick up. I didn't have Little Caesars. There was just none in Quincy. I I didn't get to experience it, and I'm sad. I always I always liked it. I always liked the little Caesar guy. He had a big speier and his pizza would flip over and it would go through. And there were a lot of fun the pizza pizza deal came around. Not only is he not only one of the only maybe the only pizza chain mascots. He's one of the last mascots in general. It's jail Ronald's, gone McDonald. They phased out not gone gone. Right. I mean, he'll be seen him in a commercial and forever yours. Yeah. I hadn't thought about it. But yeah, he's all ups elite. Yeah. Mascots are gone rate. This place still got Little Caesars. He's still going. It's great. I he's a fun little guy. The pizza's great the whole concept of of of taking out. I like that. I do. I I appreciate that. That you go in and you grab the. And it's it's it's old fashioned. I do wish that there was some delivery service because I would probably get Little Caesars more. If there was that's a thing. We we. I'm glad you brought up because that's the thing. We did not touch on. And that is a key differentiator in a bad way for a Little Caesars not liver. You have to pick it up point. You have to pick it up. Good point is that most near a pretty authentic pizza place run by an New Yorker place called village pizza. Oh god. Allow village? Probably one of the best LA villages kid, and they do deliver. So that really might not get. I mean, I might not get down to three for that. Oh my God. No, fractions or just three. You can do you can do you three and a half because I'm feeling generous right now. But I hadn't realized that they don't deliver that route. That really kinda screws the pooch for me because now I've got two choices that are almost equidistant from my house, right? I mean, how do I mean come on? This is Jake's I feel like I'm in Julius Caesar. Now, Nick, this is traumatic. This is a do. I know what Julius Caesar about not really, it's it's a one Shakespeare work that I don't really know that well, but. Just one one one up on King, John and winter's tale winters. I ns that's your that's your shit. I say I try to read winter's tale every night before I go to bed. I I can't believe that. I just did this you can do three point seven five two. If you want. Didn't work. Here's the here's what's going on you bitch likes Little Caesars. We have at the four four threshold. It's the golden plagued there as you're eligible for something called the. That's okay. I the not being able to pick. That's huge. It's a big. It's a big big factor. Big part of this chain. I kind of appreciate it in a way. And then also it is a pain, and I would get it. If it was delivery those pizzas would be. They would be great. Yeah. Get a few of those things delivered. I like it a lot though, I think the price point is great. I think that there is a factor with Little Caesars. It's better than you than you think it is which I think is was works in its favor. Sure. Partly because it's so cheap main. Yeah. Yeah. But but it's a chain. I didn't have grown up. But I kind of I not that I needed it. But but but I kind of wish I did. I think it's kind of I think it's pretty great. I'm gonna go four four and a quarter four quarter forks. I that's interesting. I I do keep thinking about what you said earlier we are taping. This just a few days before the shoe per bowl comment you made about bringing in a couple of those pretzel pies to a Super Bowl party. Yeah. How you would be canonized for such a thing. Yeah. It's not gonna happen. I'll say this. It wouldn't happen with Domino's certainly wouldn't happen with pub, John there's not an equivalent pizza you get bringing him reaction. But then again, it is a limited time offering four four four. Works and one time for Mike Mitchell. Spoon man, I love Little Caesars. I think it's a great chain. I think the Mike Illitch who's the late owner of Little Caesars co founded it with his with his wife. A by all accounts, a good man, a charitable, man. Famously paid Rosa Parks is rent for a decade when she was destitute really continue to live in to intern her apartment through. Back up to a four how. I'm back up to four. An incredible. I had no idea that an incredible story. It is, you know, the day world with with a where so many of the the CEO's of these companies are just capitalist monsters. They're parodies guys like Andy Posner the guy who is too corrupt to be even the the labor secretary for Donald Trump. It's there are occasionally some bright lights. And I think this guy was was one of them. I now this is like a Shakespeare play that ends happily. Mid summer's night dream. Happy one. Yeah. Good work. You said that like you are solving puzzle on wheel of fortune. I I really liked their food. I think it's great. I liked it. It's a great value. I think it's a great way to you know, to to feed your family or feed yourself on a budget. And and I think it's good quality and think it's right up there with the other the other chains in its in its class, and in a sense, it's kind of its own price category. Because there really isn't another chain. That's as cheap. And that has it just like ready available isn't like the gimmick where you have to take it home and bake it in your own or whatever, right. I will say that this is a. Pizzas. What to get their their sides in and to some degree there dips and certainly their wings. I think our forget -able disposable. But pizza's great. What am I fucking around? This is a five four chain. The club. Now, I go to low it's golden plate club. It's sitting pretty Bowie. I appreciate you ret conning your score. And then ret conning it again that was the correct place truly roller coaster. It really was I'm sorry. I didn't mean to drag you through it like that. But I want to bring a little element of suspense to the end of the podcast year. I sweaty this is like how feel during the Super Bowl. Oh, man that was a review of Little Caesars. It's now time for the return of a beloved segment. I've got a slice of pie and Mitch and Bowie must divine a series of clues to guess what? It is the winner keeps the pie. The loser goes home empty stomached. This is in this guy. I started seeing in pie which one is in this guy baked pastry that was Casey history, which and Mitchell our guest, we're giving their best try guessing Vissel type with this. Boy, this'll be the type of this. Now, you said you you said you coached Nick for a few. Voice in tap. Yeah. Predator. So you're when you see, you know, you see the end results swell with pride, man. I well with fried. You could also hear the karaoke version of the track under this one. Here's the thing. It's hard to find karaoke Trump songs that don't have backing vocals a lot of the time. So if you're gonna do version, it's still you're still kinda singing over 'em. But whatever it's fine. It works for harmony reasons. I'm so here's what we're going to quickly ask place is there a place in New York City. We were you the best place you slice of pie in New York City. Oh, gosh. I was gonna ask you diners because I love I'm a big fan of cats is I know that that's just you know, I know cats. Yeah. Because his old school Delhi its own thing. You know, they're. The west way diner is open twenty four hours that's on ninth and forty fourth and it's around the corner from what used to be the improv in New York. Okay. And it is allegedly the diner where Larry David and Jerry, Seinfeld stout. What Seinfeld was going to be with the TV show. It was going to be. But it's it's a big diner that like all diners a little overpriced. But they do have a they make their own desserts on the premises, and you can get supply their westward diner, forty fourth and ninth. Oh, great. Well, that's a that's a great wrec. And so here's all this will work, you'll each get turns you'll get a turn with getting increasingly more obvious clue. So it'll start very obscure. And I always by the way, it will. Eventually MRs great record in in pie in the sky. It will eventually get more and more obvious. You have to lifelines you have the smell test. You can take a blind smell of lined with of this guy that I have in the this white paper bag right here. And you could also ask Emma our engineer for. Her advice. So about your art best you get to choose. If you go first or second and keep in mind. The first clue is the most obscure everyone makes me do the first clue, and I always lose what Nick is trying to say. But you you you can take you can go ahead and gamble and take the the first clue the first shot at first clue. The first clue I don't expect this is going to go. Well, but I feel like mixing it up to see. Let's okay. Wow. I kind of anticipated Mitch getting the first clue. So this is this might be despite actually be tougher for you. We'll see here we go. Donkey Kong's gun that fires in spurts shares an attribute with this sweet pie. I know it. You know, the pie or, you know, the, I think I know I think I know the pie donkey Kong's gun that fires in spurts shares. An attribute with this sweet pie. Now, keep in mind you have to lifelines you can get take the smell test. Take a with. And you can ask 'em are engineer the smell test. Okay. Now, he's going to use the smell test lifeline and going to go ahead and open this up close my eyes. Yeah. Yeah. You should probably close your eyes container. What does the system you got going? I. Breathe it in Mitch. I can't tell if your eyes are open or closed. All right. I already know what it is. What do you? What do you think? It is John is chocolate cream pie. It is a cream pie. However chocolate cream pie is incorrect. Use clue your your first clue as to eat. You knew that. I didn't even know that. I would know this. I didn't know thirty. I mean, I mean, I know you have a thing with Don King Kong does seem kind of engineered for your field. I'm just like this is you have to know a very specific lyric. But I guess a Mitch just has the entire decay sixty four rap committed to memory, but we'll see we'll see if you note for real. Here's your second clue. Also in the world of pop culture, the professor might fashion the main ingredient into a radio instead of a creamy pie. Yes. I I knew what the whole time a coconut cream pie. Mitch you have one for the first time. Oh. Wow. Was going to be my guess, I know Donkey Kong suits coconuts out of his guy forgotten that. I didn't know too much about Shakespeare, I know a lot about Donkey Kong interesting. Let's compare wedding rings. The. The music I've ever said that was. Coconut cream pie? Mitch this is yours to keep fucking shares. Basel will always do you can have the coconut cream pie. Please take it. I've already a lot of pizza pie. So please I want you to take the pie. Really? Yes. But you you just one for the first time he made a he made a clue about about a Donkey Kong gun who else knows that besides me? It was I should've known for your specific expertise. This was that was to ease. We I would love for you to have the coconut cream pie. What a nice gesture I accept your generous. Helen, thank you for that. That's really sweet of you, of course. Wow. It's just out. Spice is roused by good work shit. Yeah. That's beautiful about. Yeah. It's a good looking inside. Honestly, I don't know that I've had. Prices really reliable. Very right, really reliable. We we we we we said that quite a bit. That's locally. I do like pie hole into by hope. I think piles good to Pyan burger out and Pasadena's good. He tried that place by legend docking insane. And I also think that is maybe the I think that might be my favorite my favorite L A burger. Wow, really mini mini driver gets their truck occasionally for the casting. Jan. Wow. Yeah. And like, it's you know, it's a food truck for set. You know, you get a thing you, can you can just get this thing. Right. Burger and a slice apply. And that's that's it. You know? That's really solid. Let's you some that don't always patriot money and get the truck out for Palmer. Stan I was going to that we could hijack the track. If he just gives us word, it can be an inside job can take that truck. That was by in this guy. Just like a restaurant, we've all your feedback. Let's over the feedback. Today's E mail comes to us from at Tom whole twenty Tom Wright's, T O M H O L L twenty you know, how you pronounce it. I apologize. If I make your last name love the pod. I was wondering what foods you like to have on a camping trip. Nick as a former boy scout myself I have fond memories of lots of different meals around the campfire, including peach cobbler Chile or the classic s'mores. I'm sure Mitch has some camping stories from growing up in Quincy. Anyway, keep up the good work further. Brigade motherfuckers does she think Mincy is still forest? I don't understand that. I maybe just thinks you went on some camp outs. Bow growing up in the city. Did you did you did you do much camping as I went? I would go I went to summer camp. And I went Connecticut and Massachusetts, and we did some over over open flame things. Actually eaten like like that hardcore stuff you can get at Ari. I it's like the dehydrate beef stroganoff in. Oh, yeah. I've had that. Oh, man. It really is something to cooking something yourself. No matter how weird and preservative. It is over an open fire where eight will taste better. Right. You know, there's that sense of accomplishment. I sure I've never I feel like what am I thinking that you put it mean you put when you makes more as you put it into tin foil. But then also what else campfire do you put in a tin foil fish, maybe? Yeah. Maybe it was fish that way. I'm trying I'm trying to think I I wouldn't care when I was very little and then I went to like camp Burgess which was a which was a summer camp. And there was cabins wasn't really like would you? But mostly s'mores hut dogs on a put hot dog on a stick and roasted over the fire, but nothing nothing too substantial. Yeah, maybe beans, even is the closest thing that I've like Cain of beings in the in the Bush Cain of Bush's beans and the pit or something like that is oddly satisfying the. Eating food out of a can because it's one of the only time you'll do that unless you're like, a, you know, really played up the bachelor thing, and I would say that those people who have to play up the bats are like just eating straight from a can know saying that can of chef boyardee you'll that's like the bachelor move in Iran com. It's not like what people actually do reality. I will say that. It's how we know this character. She has really needs to find somebody. Picked up a t shirt off the floor sniffed it and put it on drug putting onto anyway. I here's the thing. I actually have had developed some food of versions because I hated boy scouts and hated camping so much that when we'd have peach cobbler was one of them and another one was chicken cacciatore made in a Dutch oven that I was just like man, I just like I don't like these foods because I associated them with going on camping trips. It didn't want to do. I wanted to be at home playing Nintendo. And so like, yeah, I hate so much about these trips. I didn't like a lot of other kids. I didn't like being I like I didn't like getting bug bites. I think like being dirty. I don't like being away from home. I definitely had like issues with like like a using the bathroom. Like, you know what I mean? You know, what I mean, you must have been everyone's favourite camper. I was pretty high up in the ranks at boy scouts. I climb the ladder. I was senior patrol leader at one point and troops twenty nine. I was the head cheese is the troupe named for what AG were. That's a paramilitary organization. You know in the event of the local police force. Check me on this. The local police force is taken out of commission. The boy scouts can be called into active duty to defend the United States. Yeah. That's I mean, that's like a produced a blacklist script, but someone has I'm sure the scouts taking over the local combat. I will say that. But however hot cocoa. That's why expert hot cocoa out on a camper on a campout around a fire. That's that's that's not a cold weather guy. Hawk Coco's, the best cabinet snowy. It is it is a delightful context for that. So that would like my answer. But yeah, let us know your camping eats. Mitch you got a pitch for camping hashtag camping eat out. No. Hashtag eating out. Boy. Okay, wholesome. Can you can you put your lips? Or the hashtag. Design flaw. If you have a question or comment about the world of chain restaurants. Eugenia Musset, always podcast g mount calmer leaves a voice mail at eight three zero that's eight three zero four six three six eight four four, and they get the Doboy double our weekly bonus episode joined the golden or platinum plate club at patriot dot com slash Doboy. John Ross Bowie. Thank you for being with here and being being with us here to be with here being with here. I was about to say something sincere, which is why stumbled over our I've known I've known you like you mentioned a long time very early on when I was involved with the gate theatre. You mentioned you were the coach of my herald team improv team, and I just feel like I learned like so much from you. And I really feel like oh, yeah. A lot and I do for as cynical as an about my career and the finding shitty station in life. I'm at I I have been able to make a living writing comedy, which was my dream and I- tribute that partly to to what I learned for us. Thank you so much. Well, I think you came in with a lot of raw gifts. And I think you've got a great career with a lot of really cool credits. I guess Doboy us don't boys, double or episodes. I guess it on Gabor's podcast. Dirtiest get show in LA. Two thousand seven came in third. You do the the monster. Fuck that's right, dude. Honestly, I this is a little inside. But if it was only skeletal or that would be enough. How much do know how much I love. I've told you how much I love the skeletal roast. I'm glad I did that bit before every one was filming everything on iphones. That would have been something. I'd like to be up on you got your all time. Good lord. If I if they had some of my early improv shows from the late nineties I and career. You're you're early nineties improv shows are like my shows now. I hope no one's recording. This episode of Doboy. Do you have anything you'd like to plug it? Please watch speechless. It's a really funny show. It's funnier than you think. It's going to be. We've amazing rain rice. We have listen, here's all I can say about our show and our comedy, cried honor Valentine's Day episode guest. Our eighty Pepe tone boom on Betsy roles. He rules done on our Valentine's Day episode. It's gorgeous he's Huda himself. One of the best. You're one of the best. Thank you so much for making time for us, really appreciate checkout speechless. And hey, that'll do it for the soda dope. Boys until next time for the spoon, man. Mike mitchell. I'm Nick Weicker. Do you have any anything else you'd like to say that we cause to bury your head in your hands me? No. I thought you were gonna say something nice to me for a second L. Hell, no. Happy eaten. Hey spoon nation. Hey burger brigade. Catch boys live in your town, provided you live in one of the following areas. Chicago Illinois on March first Huntsville, Alabama on April tenth and Nashville, Tennessee on April eleven wow. For tickets and info, go to head gum dot com slash live. Go do it baby. That was a hit. That was a hit podcast.

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30:41 min | 11 months ago

OBI: NFL Week 1 Chargers at Bengals postgame show

"Paneth Offense Dak Prescott here WANNA spend Sunday afternoons with your favorite teams and players switch to direct TV and get NFL Sunday ticket included at no extra cost. I'm talking every live out of market game every Sunday no matter where you live. So switch to direct TV, to get the twenty twenty, NFL Sunday ticket season included at no extra cost call one, eight, hundred, DIRECTTV market games only requires choice patch above minimum seventy, four, ninety, nine a month before discounts prices higher secondary regional sorts Vietnam Ninety nine a month applies twenty four month agreements, activation other fees, terms, and restrictions apply. Everyone. Welcome to widen. Bengals. Chartered Post game show I'm Anthony from, the orange, and black. JUMBLED DOT COM I hope you are all doing well despite the result that we saw today. With the bengals losing to the chargers sixteen to thirteen unfortunately, the Cincinnati Bengals, they had it within grasp either a tie or a win. They had it within their grasp and some old Daemon some old familiar Cincinnati bengals demons came back around and the bengals fall to own one. A loss to start off the JOE era. There's a lot to get to. We'll be here for a handful of minutes and if you're watching US live or if you're watching after the fact that you for checking out our show thank you for also looking at check checking out our pre show with Matt Mimic John Sharon Myself We we kind of did a little experiment there and We thought it was we had a lot of fun. We a lot of fun with the pre-game show. Hopefully, you did as well a little bit more relaxed than some of our other. Shows that we have just Kinda tailgating with you all. So hopefully you enjoy that but. A lot of things to get to in terms of the bengals loss today. So let's let's talk about missed opportunities. Okay. And when you when you look at missed opportunities surprisingly enough, Joe Borough was one of those people that headlined missed opportunities or critical mistakes. You Look Joe Mixing a guy who hasn't fumbled since his rookie year and twenty. Lost a fumble, a critical part of the game and you had to know if joe mixing that, they were going to ride this week week one, no preseason rookie quarterback coming off a new contract extension. You're going to get the ball quite a bit and it rained earlier in the day. So the turf was a little slippery especially in the first part of the game you knew you were GonNa get the ball often I'm sure that that was part of the game plan in fumbles happened. We know that it rarely happens with Joe Mixing, but unfortunately, it came a fumble, a rare fumble came at the. Worst possible time. And never come a good times but came at a bad time bengals defense ended up holding strong. They only held held the charge to field goal there Mistakes Joe. BOROUGH MISSED A WIDE-OPEN AJ Green on third down for a possible touchdown pass. That was not a good sign. You can. You can go either way on the throat. John Ross. I kind of blame John Ross bitcoin than Joe Borough on on that play that happened a couple of days before the missed green touchdown slightly maybe overthrown by John Ross but not really much of effort in terms of you kind of try to basket catch thing and not extend. So and that was just one of. Many mistakes John Ross made he had a bobble at the end of the game. Luckily, it didn't really end up costing them but at the time it loomed large also had a false start. Just seems that John Ross is not getting as much as we want him to it seems that John Ross is not going to ever get it at least not with Cincinnati bengals. I know it's only one game Gary James go mean I know I know I know so you know I I'm with you there but there are familiar mistakes that keep popping up from familiar players and You GotTa, you gotta point the finger and say you know these are glaring problems and their recurring problems and you have to you know you have to try and do what you can to fix it. So. John Ross. Obviously Point Randy bullock inexplicable. What happened there at the end He got kicked a fifty yard field goal clutch field goal another forty three yard field goal clutch field goal game on the line thirty, one yard chip shot field goal and just pulls it right He did you know supposedly injure himself on the play don't know the severity of don't exactly what happened there So maybe maybe you know in his kicking motion, there was an injury that occurred that caused him to miss the field goal but. There are some decisions there that call into question for Zach Taylor and company yet seven seconds left. Did you WANNA do one quick play with Joe Borough. Do you want the ball and Joe Boroughs hands who was heating up towards the end of the game there. Or do you want in your kickers foot to tie the game? I don't know I think I would've liked to have seen one maybe fade pass something like that one. Quick. Out Pass that sort of thing Look Job jober missed a couple of passes today the shovel pass that was an interception that was a critical critical mistake rookie mistake. We've seen that from all kinds of different quarterbacks both on the bengals and not on the Bengals so. You can. You can point to to Joe Borough making some rookie mistakes but. If you if you also want to go on the positives which we will get to more of those in just a second if on the positives, Joe Borough showed the Joe Borough Gene. If you will at the end of the game where he came up, clutch was making plays dispersing the ball well to a number of different targets, hitting big third down plays and moving the ball and really should have had the game winning touchdown to Aj Green. You look at that by the way that played. Were degreen is called for offensive pass interference at the end of the game there he did extend the arm. He did push off Casey Hayward however, that was a play that was five yards out. And the rule states at least to my knowledge that five yards in wide receivers can jostle and you know use a bit more hand movement or shoving against defensive backs than they can down the field with defensive backs on wide receivers. There is more physicality that is allowed within five yards than. What is not allowed down the field so That penalty itself was questionable there were you know a penalty? By Jesse Bates and it was offset to with Keenan Allen where they kind of bunk bunkbeds at one point. You know you can kinda say you know Keenan Allen that lowered his head that caused Jessie Bates to hit him in the head So Tough Day for the referees and look we we said this on the pre-game. We said this on the orange black insider. This week is going to be a sloppy game was GONNA be an ugly game and hey. The rest didn't have preseason either so they're kind of playing catch up a little bit as it is in there was going to be some frustrating calls and unfortunately a couple of them went against the bengals this week can't can also say you know. Unfortunately can also go through the negatives without mentioning Bobby Hart bobby hard drive alone had a false start and A. Allow the sack by Joey Bosa. There were other times where he was allowing a lot of big hits on Joe Borough a couple of which I was. Praying that jober was going to get up because some of them were very, very big hits and I was I was a little surprised to see kind of Joe pop back up off the turf pretty quickly there because some of them look pretty. Pretty intense There were a couple of big. You know nice moments from Bobby Hardy clean things up towards the end of the game. There was a unfortunately it seemed as if drew tranquil the defensive back slash linebacker for the chargers it seemed as if he had a very significant invariably injury on a block that Bobby Hart was putting on him had nothing to do with Bobby Hart. Doing anything dirty unfortunately tranquil slipped. Bobby. Hart put put a nice block on him but unfortunately, it seemed as if ju tranquil. Suffered a pretty significant injury there. So that's that's not good but there were some. Bright spots from Bobby. Harper, there was some very significant issues at right tackle and really many of the spots in the offensive line Joan Williams played very well I thought or at least pretty well trae Hopkins had a couple of Nice moments. But really it's the spots that we were all worried about the guard, the to guard spots and the right tackle spot. Those are major major issues and Joe, borough took way too many hits. Yes. Joe Borough did quarterback draws Joe Borough ran the ball scrambled around and and that's what he does. He ad libs in the pocket. That's what he does to avoid pressure but the offensive line is still A significant concern going forward for the Cincinnati? Bengals and those are some of the major negatives that we saw today. Unfortunately to. This. These signs that I mentioned the Miss Touchdown Pass to John Ross touchdown pass to Aj Greens settling for field goals the You know the the false starts on your own home turf, which by the way, there is no crowd noise. the fumble by Joe Mixing, which rarely occurs these are mistakes on your home turf in the second half. When you know you're going to get the ball quite frequently in yes. I God bless him Joe was trying to make plays because there was not much running room all day for him I. Think he only had sixty nine yards on the ground. I understand that he's trying to make something happen, and he was trying to make a play and unfortunately the ball just scored it out but. You. Got It. You gotta hang onto the football close game second half you never fumble and You know you're gonNA get the ball. You gotta hang onto it John Ross just a myriad of issues again you know. and. You kinda were hoping that the ball would be spread out a bit more tyler. Boyd was relatively quiet had a couple of nice catches late to extend the drives especially on the final drive nothing from Auden tate nothing for t higgins. That's okay. Because Aj Green maybe gave you a little bit more than you than you thought at least for some folks you know so. You were. Kinda. Hoping for a little bit more from some of these players. But you know the coaches I think are also trying to get their feet under them. A bit more here I'm Anthony Costanzo with CINCY JUNGLE DOT COM and the orange black insider. This is the post game show. Thank you for joining us the Bengals lose to the chargers sixteen to thirteen and unfortunately You know they follow in one and it just seems that the losing continues even in the Joe Borough era, the losing continues in. What what really bothered me guys and Gals was the. What we were hoping for with Joe Borough was a bit more of the clutch gene and while he showed it at the end there at the end of the game. The. The. The team and some of the familiar characters did not exude that same gene. Mentioned Ross and bullock and company. They just didn't come up big like they should have so. Fortunately, the bengals fall to own one. Now on the good side, the defense played very well I thought now they didn't Garner any turnovers which was kind of a bummer when you're going against tyrod Taylor, a marginal starter in the NFL and you know the chargers didn't really have a ton of explosive plays a couple of big passes here and there to Hunter Henry Mike Williams made a couple of Nice plays, but overall Josh binds played his butt off. Jessie Bates incredible game by Jesse Bates William Jackson played really well saw a lot of Nice stuff from the defensive line without Gino. Atkins minimal big plays on the ground minimal big place through the air now. What what you have to ask yourself is, was it the bengals defense improving was the chargers offense that was a little stagnant with tyrod Taylor under center was a little bit of both I'd probably say it's it's the latter You know maybe a little bit of a mixed bag there. It's also the fact that it's week one and no preseason and so really. what what does this game tell us about either team what does this tell us about either team I don't really know you know to me the chargers were not very impressive. There were a lot of things I as we know Melvin Ingram Joey. Bosa. are fantastic football players fantastic edge players that was cemented. outside of those guys, you know Mike Williams and Keenan. Allen. Very good players was quiet. Thanks to William Jackson who I mentioned had a good good game and Jesse basis. Well, Mike Williams had a couple of big catches but I mean there are some talent on that roster but overall, it was a bit. I was a little underwhelmed with what I thought from the chargers. Now, if you're a charger fan, you look at the bengals and say, okay while I was underwhelmed from for by Joe. Bureau, I was underwhelmed by Joe Mixing and the supposed vaunted bengals offense So I see both sides of the argument there. So but my point is I don't really know where to gauge where both of these teams are. At this point I don't I don't know. Exactly. HOW TO GRASP Where these teams are. What I will say is some of the things we saw. Today in terms of mistakes and players who made the mistakes. And Agree justness of errors all of that. It is very. Reminiscent of week one last year with the seahawks where you had a game in grasp against a team that you thought was pretty good and you had a game that you you think should have. And you didn't pull it out and and what you're left with is a Lotta Kota would should as right mike if if's John Ross catches that touchdown pass obey J. Green tea catches that touchdown pass I enjoy borough doesn't overthrow if the the penalty isn't called against Aj Green at the end of the game if randy bullock doesn't pull the the kick, you know it's a lot of ifs and and e kind of you're kind of left with. A lot of questions you're left with more questions than answers at this point. But continuing on with the positives, you know the bengals defense played really well without Gino Atkins Marcus Bailey was an active but. The linebackers especially, Josh binds dramane Pratt played very very well, very well, I thought limited a lot of the damage and Again, you'd like to think it's because of the acquisitions in the in the new faces on that side of the ball that made the difference but while it is that I think it's also the fact that. You know. That the chargers weren't really showing all that much either so. We'll we'll see what goes what happens with defense going forward. But for now, it looks like there's at least at a minimum marginal improvement. Thanks to the new faces there by the way, one of the new faces Dj Reader was carted off the field at some point He did it was only cramps thankfully and he did return to the game. So it appears that he will be okay. If you joined us for the pre-game show with Bengal Jim, foster he was. Telling us that he ran into Troy Blackburn of all people this morning on a on a morning jog as he was setting up his drive tailgate in downtown and it sounds like genome. Atkins may be a fifty fifty for Thursday night and if he doesn't play Thursday night, he should play the following week. We can take that a little bit with a grain of salt because you know who knows how much they're going to divulge this point but that's That's kind of where things are at with Gene-o Atkins Mike Daniels played admirable in his absence. I thought Mike Daniels played pretty wild DJ reader played pretty well like I said, most of the defense played pretty well, Darius Phillips had his ups and downs had a couple of pass breakups. I believe in also had a couple of completions to Mike Williams couple of penalties against him as well. So there are a lot of There's a lot of ups and downs dairy slopes, but for the most part, the defense showed vast improvement. Might my worry for the offense going forward with the Cincinnati Bangles we're the dry spell's that we saw this this game, we saw a massive dry spell's throughout the second quarter through parts of the third quarter Joe Borough still doesn't have a passing touchdown to his name. He ran the ball in the end zone is a great play, ran the ball into the end zone and You know he's he coulda Woulda Shoulda had a touchdown at the end of the game there to J. Green but despite it all and him I I would assume he would admit that he is he did not play his best game. The I would think that there's gotta be some hope that's at least inspired based on what we saw the end of the game and the fact that he was really in a groove at the end of the game and it was at, it was crunch time and essentially the bengals had the game to either Thai or lose at the end there. So you know you gotta be encouraged at least a little bit despite the weird play where he shoveled passed for an interception that was a little channeling gusts Garad or John Kitten a love it there but You have to be at least a little bit encouraged wasn't the explosive plays weren't they're both because of other because the poor protection because of drops or a couple of throws by borough himself but at the end of the day he had team in position to tie or win the game, which is what you want at your quarterback, and he really had the game there and some circumstances out of his control at the end of the game the Bengals to lose the game here. You know. The big question going forward year. He'll be here for a handful of minutes. Thanks for everybody for tuning and we've got a lot of viewers and I appreciate the appreciate the feedback we share comments and you guys are the live listeners. Chatting with each other and everything that's awesome the. The question that we have to go forward with now as we look at Cincinnati bengals. Very. Well, could've would've should've been one. No. I mentioned the the game last year against Seattle and what that game was. What the Bengals did what they did not do. In how they barely lost that game and when we came away from that game, we thought, Hey, you know this isn't far off as we think new coach hasn't played playing inspired football the defenses. Okay. You know that sort of thing and we know we know now as we look back that the defense was awful and we know now that the quarterback play with subpar beat from Andy Dalton or Ryan Finley we know now that the offensive line struggled massively and that just a very good team. Given the day finished two and fourteen, and then landed with the number one overall pick what I don't know. Is What. Bengals team is going. To. Is this bengals team going to be that same type of Bengals team going forward was because we know we week one is a mixed bag. We know that week one doesn't really tell us every single thing that we. Think, we know. Wins and losses don't tell the Tale You know teams are still trying to find their way, create their their game plans, etc.. And we don't know exactly what's what's ahead for the Cincinnati Bengals we don't know exactly. What this team will look like from week to week we we think that there's marked improvement. But. If you look back at that Seattle game, the defense played pretty well against goods seahawks defensive that point defense collapse arrest the way Andy Dalton John. Ross had great games. That week. They kind of both collapsed the rest of the way. This week. Another game that was easily within grasp to win to try to put it to overtime whatever. Bengals do not take advantage very familiar mistakes and very bengals like issues. Reared their ugly heads and now we're kind of left with. Are The bengals. Closer. To the twenty nineteen bengals and this was just a weird week one and they're still far off or have they made those changes and actually the the changes to the roster that's that have been needed. And actually, there are a lot closer to getting their feet under them getting into a groove. They're a young team they're team in transition, and as we hit more of the middle and late parts of the season, it's a team that's going to put wins together. That's that's the question we have to ask ourselves we Again, not an overwhelming. Performance by Joe Borough in terms of the positive but. When it came down to the crunch time the clutch time, and when you need a quarterback to make plays, Joe. Borough stepped up the rest of the team did not. That was the case last year. Again. Defense played well, we went last year defense played well, we when this year rest of last year, they did not play well who what's going to happen here. You think DJ. Readers fine. We're going to get Sean Williams back probably pretty soon you're GONNA get Gino Atkins back pretty soon. You'd like to think that this team's GonNa continue to play pretty well on defense. But. You know when you when you look at what we one? tells us in does not tell us and when you look at what? Happened last year after week one, it does beg the question as to what? What do the twenty twenty what does the twenty twenty season look like the for the Cincinnati? Bengals. What does the other fifteen games ahead looked like for the for the Cincinnati Bengals in terms of outlook and how they're going to perform how the respective units are going to perform. You also have to wonder what's ahead for some of these guys I mentioned that struggled today. How long are there leashes? How Long Leash for Bobby, Hart? How long is the leash for John Ross? How long is the leash for Randy bullet. Unfortunately. For for the kicker position, they don't really have many. Contingency, plans in place there at right tackle at least they have Fred Johnson maybe Fred Johnson steps in next game. As a starter or if there's continued issues there who knows the bengals have more. Wide Receiver talent behind John Ross. Nobody. Has the speed John Ross as though that's behind him. Nobody name and hell as speed John Rouse has. So that is going to be you know a speed is something you cannot coach, but you gotta be able to catch the ball. You gotta be able to come up with grabs at Clutch Times in the game and John Ross says unfortunately, a guy that I was very high on the bengals drafted him. Unfortunately is a guy that has shown that he has been unreliable at best. Up and yes I. See Robert Roy foresman say Jona was abused today will continue to be Joan. Williams played very well today, and if you go back and look at the tape, he was moving guys out of the way trae Hopkins played very well today. The bengals have two very good lineman offensive. Lineman. Unfortunately they have three. At best average to not very good linemen that the other three spots and they need to figure that out needed to figure that out quickly and yes eight, six, two, five, zero. Are We zero pass rush? It was sickening. Yes. pass rush was limited today. Is is a bit mobile. He can move around a little bit and avoid the rush. If you join US Wednesday ben baby from ESPN, joins us on the program. He noted that the pass rush begins and ends with gene-o Atkins Gino Atkins Commands Attention Gino Atkins even when he commands attention or one on ones. He makes plays or he frees up others to get pressure Kara Lawson had some pressures, but as it has always been. Carlsen's career are loss in gets pressures. He does not bring down the quarterback pressures are great. It's a great statistic it really is. But at some point you got it, you also gotta combined that with some Saks and you know met yardage losses on defense and Kara. Lawson, just really hasn't done that very much in his career Sam Hubbard had a couple of Nice plays I. I know he had a nice play on tyrod Taylor in a rpo but you know again getting to the quarterback That's an unfortunate part today but the defense, overall, the defense did more than enough to keep this this game winnable and it was not on the defense really to to blame here. The only thing here that can say the bengals focused so much on the basics on defense tackling. Gap Responsibility and edge play and all of that. That they need to start netting turnovers and when you're Maya's to even even in this game, even if they would've won this game, they would have been not minus two in the turnover margin in just can't you can't win a lot of games at way So the defense does need to make more turnovers, but they did more than enough today to keep this game winnable manageable, etc.. What's ahead for Cincinnati Bengals? The bengals play on a short week here they face a Cleveland BROWNS team in Cleveland. is coming off a terrible loss to Baltimore Baker. Mayfield. Played pretty poorly the entire browns team did not play well, Odell Beckham had minimal impact You know again, a team with a lot of hype and a lot of talent, but it just isn't. Putting it together. On the field they're not. Cohesive as a team, they're not putting it together Part of me is saying you know I I, I'm a little bit envious of You know some of the town with the browns have accumulated in terms of their roster talent. But part of me also says, you know, I'm I'm pretty. I'm far more content with the bengals situation right now, as we head into week two into this game, then I am with if I were a browns fan because the browns have continued to disappoint. You. On one hand you like to think that the browns may be are coming into this game. You know division rivalry game in got something to prove home opener primetime television. So there's there's that aspect. But at the same time, they really got really got handed to him today by the Baltimore Ravens in Baltimore and You know if the bengals continue to play the way they did on defense and if Joe Borough ride similar this late game momentum into this week, you know Joe Borough doesn't like to lose because he rarely ever. Did in high school college anywhere he never really loses so to go and play in the pros and lose his first game. Really. On circumstances that were largely out of his control. You know he's GonNa come back with a vengeance there too. So should be very interesting game on Thursday just as I. Sit here right now I'm inclined to think that the Bengals have a pretty good chance of winning that game but again it's. It's the little things about the bengals whether it's under Zach Taylor whether it's under Marvin Lewis whether it's Who Carson Palmer quarterback whether it's Andy Dalton to quarterback Joe Borough. Clutch moments and these these doing the little things well. The bengals did not do that once again today and it's kind of been a trademark of the franchise. I said this before I was very interested to see how Joe Borough would perform these first two games particularly. At the end of this game which he showed me a lot on that final drive. But also primetime television division rival on the road for his second game. These first two games you don't WanNA great quarterbacks career on on his first two games, per se but these first two games going to tell me a lot. About Joe Borough, his career is DNA is a quarterback and. You know what? What we should expect going forward. I've seen a lot of. Comments that are basically saying they're frustrated but. I, you know it's one game. It's just a you know it was out of out of control. It's you know. meriden investing I ASSUME THAT'S A. Assume a business account maybe it sucked but will be fine. If bullock is healthy enough they're not going to change this week. You know I've seen a lot of different comments. So you know there there are a lot of different ways to take this result but the. Fact of the matter is the bengals are on one and you know. It was heartbreaking loss but you know there are a lot of positives to take from this from this game but a lot of negatives as well. We're going to get on your again I'm Anthony Costanza with the orange black insider bengals podcast, and since he jumped without com thanks for joining me on the post game show. Thanks for joining us on the pre-game show is. Brought to you by inherited beer there's my son yelling at you by the way, and we do have a couple of winners from some giveaways from the pre-game show and we'll contact you directly on that. Thanks everybody have a great rest of your weekend and we'll see you throughout the week podcast and. Free Game Show leading up to Thursday night football bengals going to Cleveland based browns. Thanks.

Bengals Joe Borough Cincinnati Bengals bengals John Ross joe chargers Joe Mixing Aj Green Gino Atkins Randy bullock football Cincinnati NFL Joe Borough browns Andy Dalton Bobby Hart Mike Williams Zach Taylor
10/20/20 - Mo Egger & Paul Dehner Jr Talk All Things Bengals and Their Coaching Staff

Mo Egger

41:09 min | 10 months ago

10/20/20 - Mo Egger & Paul Dehner Jr Talk All Things Bengals and Their Coaching Staff

"Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability. Investment. Our new investment product offers competitive returns, no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. Make the reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy. Reliability investment to find out more go online to reliability investment DOT COM. That's reliability investment dot com. This is Paul Dana Junior and Mo Egger in studio. Talking all things, bengals in general NFL topics on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station. Never, go good afternoon my name's molecular and you're listening to ESPN fifteen thirty thanks so much for doing. So we're glad you're here we are loaded today we have in studio with his for the our. Our Friend Call Dana Junior, he just celebrated his forty. Happy Birthday to you it's good to be old He covers the bengals for the. Which? Involves not just what he writes. He says, singles podcast is here that podcast Crown, Paul dealer and J Morrison. And of course, he could read his work as well at the athletic dot com or just do even better than that. Get the APP subscribing you're you're GonNa go what's I'm not even sure where to start. There is. Where do you start? I don't know where to start I. Don't know if an hour is going to be enough I. Don't we're. Where would you like to start how about we start with Genome Carlos let's start with Gina and Carlos I mean I I sort of. Feels like where we've we've reached this point. With this right and we've seen this. I wrote about this today it's the all my underlying theme being it's time to move on Let's not let this this charade type stuff. Go on all year. We have seen this before we saw this last year. Yes. We saw the cordy Glenn thing what what went better last year No no there with bear with me here. What went better last year cordy Glenn or Preston Brown. They moved on from Preston Brown midseason and the defense seemed stop making his many bad mistakes and things seem to kind of it was that move was credited by the way for the defense getting itself together a little bit To cordy Glenn situation lingered there was a suspension. There was all kind of wondering what's going on at some point he played and he had to be benched in it was. It was just this thing that hovered over unnecessarily. That made you wonder your question everybody yeah. Which one would better be when you know it's over in with Carlson Gino at I. Think we've reached that it's over. Yeah. Yeah like we don't need to hang on trying to recreate two thousand fifteen again players who aren't effective anymore that's it's over it's over in they and they know everyone knows that their contracts suggest that it's over we know the end of the year I mean it certainly looks like both of those guys you know you're. Sean Williams up AJ Green is up. There's these we talk we've been talking about the Marvin vets last couple of weeks the the the leftovers and sort of the faction they are on this team. Everybody knows that that move on his coming and so why delay the inevitable for there to be more circus? Moore? Look at me instagram lives more more of complaining in the locker remorse everyone else of I assume I lease. There's few people bought in their unlock I think there is a pretty large portion of this team that still does care about winning here. Still does think they can win here has invested themselves in winning here in some way shape or form. And to have people who? Arguably aren't. As much sorely expressing that opinion. Still around in infecting that does no good. It hinders any chance you still have of pulling out of this rebuild abyss that you're in So why not just say look he's able to trade them probably not. I don't know who is trying to take on contracts like that I don't know who's trying who looks at that production is like Gimme that. Right? Right. So when we talked with the bengals and trades before fine feel like trades not going to happen in probably won't than just cut them just be like you know it's sad that things have to end this way. No one wants to put for the best of everyone. Do you really need unproductive sub package snaps from these guys at this point you know what? Just? Trot out more. Checks, notes, Amani bledsoe including Corinne. But. You know at a certain point like. Just, try something else because I. Don't know that there's good coming is that going to happen? No, I don't. Know, but it's what should happen. I feel like for for years you and I've talked about this. We've been chasing this happy ending at some point you have to stop chasing a happy ending. Yeah. It didn't end happily with Andy Dalton. Last night's performance notwithstanding everybody's okay franchises fine. It's not going to end well with Gino and Carlo's it's not going to end with those going out of those two guys going out in a blaze of glory whether leading the team to some sort of franchise defining victory or legacy ceiling win. What's the point of continuing to do this with either of those guys. But along with that question, there's two others that I have. One is between you and J. Morrison what was the discussion about who had to watch the Carlos Dunlap instagram. Jay described in his piece in the athletic by writing quote, the video drew approximately three thousand viewers and mostly featured dunlap eating chips and shouting out acquaintances including some teammates as they appeared on screen with their comments. Yeah Bobby Hart showed up at one point. That's cool. That was probably the most entertaining th the reaction of everyone else to bobby art weighing in was. Fairly entertaining. I, we both were he it. He took it on himself Douglas. Heart or good I dropped into out of curiosity and I had to drop out after a little bit. I was just I. I don't really understand what's happening here and I'm just GonNa. Say. Goodbye. So. So that was that's pretty much all it was. Okay. So then the other question for me which is more important is. You can't go back in time and undo the contracts extensions that gave on the same day to Jean. Carlos you can't go back in time and undo the decision to continue to make Aj green part of this team in Aj played well on Sunday against Indianapolis and at some point between four o'clock you and I will actually talk about that game as much as I might not want to but not moving forward. Is there a lesson moving forward for this franchise in a League where it seems to me that the best and most well run teams are not constantly clinging to revisiting the past clinging to what happened four? Or five years prior they're willing to move on before a player, his expiration date sometimes even while that players still has something left in the tank and not interest unless interested in what they already did and I'm more interested in what they're gonNA? Do moving forward with guys who are old and have no plays being on the team and avoiding getting to a spot where you're having to do what they're doing right now with Carlos and gene. There is a danger whenever you move on from someone who you believed to be too old that you end up looking like the Bengals do with Andrew Whitworth that is one in. Twenty Yeah Right. At a certain point, you have to be willing to take those hits and obviously they have and they've been beaten up for as they should. Draft Better, and hope people don't talk about it as much and fortunately around here it's still lingers. Just gotTa Stop Investing and older guys in thirty plus year old I. Mean we I've been talking about this for two years about how at one point five of their top six cap it's all guys thirty plus no one has a team like that. Right? Especially, not one that just hired a new coach is trying to rebuild. Yeah. It's it's it's crazy and so the the idea of always hanging on him believing that that you're going to get some return to prime from players and pay them accordingly in their thirties just never make sense. It's happened far too often around here. Invest and I will say the way they spent. This past season hasn't paid off mostly due to injury was was the is the right model invest in guys in their prime and pay overpay someone who's twenty five as opposed to overpaying someone who's if you're you're going to overpay spots everyone does at some position or some spot of need or wherever it hits you at some point. Let that be someone who's in the middle of their best years or their best years are yet to come holding onto and there's loyalty here and you. I think some people treasure the loyalty. And it's obviously there is a significant amount of it that is to a fault and that. I think you've seen that whittled itself down a little bit in recent years. It has to happen more certain point. You've just gotTa have more they have to do a better job. Of understanding how to properly value their players not have this. This dow commitment. In sentiment that you feel like you owe them more and that I think plays into a number of different areas in its biting them right now you mentioned Andrew Whitworth and I remember at the time talking about not the time but but when it was abundantly clear that Andrew still had plenty left in the tank with the La Rams that first season and I said, okay, the bengals. Here they made a mistake. They made a calculated mistake. Here Andrew, Whitworth is defying the odds. He is still a very productive player in his mid thirties. I hope this mistake if that's how you WANNA put it, I hope this mistake is in a vacuum. Let's not let this affect other decisions said something that I think is is important because it's easy right now it's easy right now to go Gino shouldn't be here Carlos shouldn't be here they should have moved on from Aj Green. It also, you have applied the same logic in March of two, thousand, sixteen or two, thousand, seventeen Andrew Whitworth allow as in his mid thirties. He's not going to continue to be the kind of player he has been. He's certainly not going to get any better. He has defied the odds bengals played the odds there to me can't do it both ways you can't continue to criticize them for just letting Whitworth get away. You can criticize them for failing to replace him. You could criticize them for the way he decision Jake Fisher, all the different ways they've tried to replace. Andrew Whitworth and make the offensive line. What it was in two, thousand fifteen but you I am willing to let players thrive elsewhere. If it means there's not a blanket policy but if it means that there is a pretty much refusal to sign guys who are no longer productive to huge deals that reverberate for years I'm willing to let a player get away and be good somewhere else it. It's easy to say oh? Yeah. So am I but you're not with Andrew Whitworth. Yes exactly I think you have to realize that sometimes it will end up like that and you just come to terms with it because most of the time it won't and. The between the problem is you know you compound things? When you have the to two problems that have created this mess. And there's and we haven't even gotten into the coaching staff yet and I'm sure I'm sure we will. But. There's there's two problems that compound. This it is if you're GONNA have those issues and you're GonNa do that well, your first round picks better be good. The guys you draft to eventually replace them better. Be Good. You cannot. You certainly can't have both are. That's how you end up in this stretch that they're in where you. Pay, the wrong, guys, your your top cap hits are not giving you much your top five to ten capital and this team are giving them very little. There's a few exceptions obviously, but they're giving you very little and your first round picks in recent years are giving you very little that combination is debilitating in every way shape and form no matter who's running the show no matter who whatever like those two things together are what put you in this situation and there's other factors to not making the best out of that situation. But that is the absolute core of this. And it goes back to ownership the front office and everything. Obviously. It is sixteen minutes after four o'clock Paul. Dana Junior goes on twitter at Dana Junior. He covers the bengals for the athletic among the other people we have to talk about today S Al. Golden. We're going to spend time today talking about Al Golden. Really wake up this morning. Thinking we'd be doing that, but we're going to talk about Al Golden. More on Zach Taylor in the current locker room dynamic and we'll revisit Sunday's game against the colts as much as I really don't want to. Get to between now and four o'clock I'm here till six a lot to get to between now, and then it's seventeen after three I'm apology energy in from the athletic is here this is ESPN fifteen. Thirty. Cincinnati sport station. Three this is ESPN fifteen thirty. pollinator juniors. From the athletic. Off. Air All the stuff I have asked you. There's there's no natural place to start is do you think Zach Taylor? You alluded a lot of guys on this team, the majority still invested in what they're doing winning and all that stuff and I think a lot of folks have watched what's happening and they go well, he's losing the team. He's losing the locker room he's losing the roster. Unless interested in whether that's happening now and I'm more concerned about the climate that he is going to be dealing with and that we're going to be talking about. If the BENGALS lose to Cleveland Tennessee and then after the by the Pittsburgh steelers and instead of one four and one, we are talking about one, seven and one. I know in the second half of the season, they have the rest of the NFC, east which the bengals should be I put it on twitter last they should be Dallas Washington and the giants but who knows the Miami Dolphins. Now, we'll have to attack Vilo they've turned things over to him at quarterback, and so that's that's a winnable game. Houston's winnable game there are winnable games but. For a thing for a program that that already seems to be kind of unraveling a little bit I wonder about the death spiral we will be talking about F- and it's a big if although you can't convince me, they're going to beat the titans steelers made big if if this team is sitting there one, seven and one. I know I despise must win game concept I cannot stand the idea of it. But you wonder for this staff as it's currently constituted. If Cleveland is not that I? Mean, how is it not I mean because you're talking about? there. I mean to think that you're going to go be Tennessee your Pittsburgh I mean there's no team in this league that chiefs the chiefs that you feel confident. They could go through that. No definitely feel like they can win one. Does those teams are very good and we know the history in. Pittsburgh. So. You're talking about that. You're talking about by weeks involved where there's always the opportunity to see potential change whatever I mean. At some point. You have to have a win. You have to have winds to prove what you're doing. It has legs it Caz, traction. It is not just talk. They have. It's sort of what I wrote coming out of Sunday. This close. Twenty one nothing Joe Jober looking good Aj. Green Tea Higgins. Jessie Bates progress all of these things that you can hear about it and you can spin in a vacuum are great and in a vacuum, you could sell those and and there's even stuff to believe believing there. But when it's been so repetitive. Over the course of selling this close and talking about where you're in. If you you're now at the point where if you're not turning in wins. I don't think anybody can buy it anymore correct even the most patient organization in professional sports is going to have a hard time buying as the only ammo have left because progress people can see Joe boroughs good. Yes. They people can see he's good i. think you can see the progress is gonNA come. It's coming. That's great and this staff deserves credit for sure certainly and and I think people can see some of the things happening but there's just There's no way to. Sell To anybody if you can't. The only thing that you have to do and the only option. That you you you can't sell this close. You can't sell played well but lost you can't sell any of that. Anymore. You're Outta those your your hold you have no more cards left with this close written on them. That work. So you know. Sunday you got. You got to find a way the browns That's that's just all there. Those find yourself in a situation where it's going to be a lot of questions and answers that I don't think anybody wants to have or have to answer. I read a tweet from a lease. Jesse. who used to work for channel five that she is hearing that Al Golden. You might remember is the the the coach temple coach at Miami he's The linebackers coach of this team I. Remember Him because when he was the head coach and college, he dressed like he was a manager at Ruby Tuesday's. is on the staff as the linebackers coach is probably casual fans who didn't know that he is now going to take over the calling the plays on third down. I Lisa's very well connected replugged and this is i. mean she everything she says is is incredibly credit why she's a great job. Yeah I mean. We if you go back to Paul Guenther under Mike Zimmer. And even when he was linebackers coach. He Mike Zimmer who defensive one of the best defense coaches of our generation right in charge of the blitz packets blitz packages a lot of third-down staff passage. That's the type stuff that leases referring to hear. They're talking about golden and and it's I. Think you see I don't I don't know specifically the dynamic I don't know exactly how long it's been going on what that entails. We'll find out more. But you know you vets not totally uncommon it certainly nothing that we haven't even seen here before for there to be people who specialize in that on your staff now as far as calling plays again, that gets into the specifics of it that I don't know specifically. So I, you know that type of thing can happen necessarily not be indirect indictment it can it can be. The trade deadline is two weeks from today. We discussed AJ Green last week you and I have talked about Gino Atkins and Carlos dunlap today the name John Ross's come up where the report was this morning that he had asked for a deal I'll be completely honest with you nothing against John Ross. At all I'm excited for him to not be here anymore because he has the New York Knicks of NFL player. The time that we spend talking about him is not proportionate to his relevance that's coming from a die hard knicks fan. By the way the time we spend on John Ross is proportionate to his relevance to the team. He dressed on Sunday. I didn't remember him being in the game he had one snap one snap. He he's he's not relevant to what they're doing. They're making that abundantly. Clear. Why not flip him for something? There has to be something to flip for. It's fine to request a trade someone has to be willing to trade for you. And everybody has the same tape. I. Don't know if they're at least with John in comparison to some of the others there is a hope there there is a hey, maybe there's some untapped. Right first rounder ninth overall pig or to tune. Yeah and all of. Fit for him issues lack of confidence all of this up by the way to staffs change of scenery. Yeah. That's the thing for me. This is to staff multiple coordinators, multiple position coaches, multiple dynamics here the it's this is John. This is John Ross is on John Raw. Yes. I wasn't willing to say that two years ago I'm willing to say now. John Ross had started the first they were they were giving John. Ross snaps I who games. And went poorly, you're you don't know how long your opportunities are going to be in this league especially when a team does continue to give them win healthy. The last couple of years win healthy John Ross has been out there. And we we haven't seen much. There was the two game stretch. To Open last year. That's that's what we have on John. Ross's four years right now is one two game stretch where he made some big place for you. I will I will hear people. Most notably somebody who used to work in the room across from me. We're getting on the show and the five o'clock hour because with John Ross in the news you gotTa Call James But. He's not the only person who I've I've seen right this or or here say this but he's got to find the right situation. The right situation is on the US Olympic. Track. Team. Let's that's the right situation. This is not about situation. Right. Correct correct me if. There is more there is more to playing football than running fast, and I would say, certainly, there's more to playing receiver than running fast catching big part Catching the ball big part of it, running the right routes, understanding the route concerts all the time big part of it. So t higgins, we always were John Ross can take the top off defense I watched he higgins do it on Sunday. I'm good I got my take the top off defense guide. You have to have that threatened to guy who can execute it looked like literally at the game when t higgins caught that pass I said cool. Now we don't need John Ross. Yes. Running running four to is great. Playing fast is a different thing and that has just you know it hasn't always added up there I. don't I don't know how much more you need to see if some team. Feels like, well, let's just take a fast guy and see what we can do with it and is willing to give up anything I'm pretty positive. The bengals will say, yes, I just don't know that there's any and maybe there is maybe there's some team that looks at it and says, I'm telling you we can make it happen and we need it. We need that if there is then then good I I don't see the bengals turning down an offer because it's not good enough. Twenty eight minutes away from four o'clock ob something else I didn't think I would be doing until Sunday at about three forty five was launching into a segment by bringing up the name Somali J. P. But we'll do that. When we come back, he's Paul Data. Jenner he's till four you and I told six ALLEGRA ESPN fifteen. Thirty. Cincinnati sport. Station we continue with Paul Dana Junior and Mo Egger in studio talking all bengals and General NFL topics on Espn Fifteen Thirty Cincinnati sports station twenty three away from four. Don't forget game. One of the world series airs on ESPN Fifteen thirty tonight at eight o'clock raise dodgers game on this even first pitch around eight thirty live on ESPN fifteen. called. Energy from the athletic is here until four. Covers the Bengals, the athletic dot com you can read them. So third and one game hanging in the balance there down by point you got all these weapons the go to guys J. P. Ryan. Yeah. The floors. I so I don't defend it. Can't to find that I'm not I just just screaming at you now. Extreme I'm not. Said anything yet. This. I'll just I'll say. I. I don't necessarily have as big of a problem with it as everyone else I mean I'm not here I'm not defending I'm not defending. Okay. I I. DO think it's like it's sort of like running a qb sneak there. It's like. Can you get? Can you get a little just a little bit with this at least surprise factor of shoving it in there that said, there's so many other options and actual qb snake. which. Joe Mixing. Pretty good. Or if you if you WANNA throw it I'm I'm in favor of. Hammer and it twice. You know give it to number twenty, eight a couple of times and see what happens. I. I probably. You know. You don't. There's nothing to like about it I. Mean I get that? He's he's the fullback in that spot. Okay. So if you're GONNA run a fullback dive, it's going to go to somebody who probably hasn't touched the ball much. He's he's got he's a former running back. So you don't think he's totally inept, but the does does plays just. You're also running like. Where you're running right behind Bobby Houghton Alex Redman. So it's so to recap. It's IT'S AP Ryan behind Alex Redman, and Bobby Hart for. In a massive spot. Yeah. I mean, it's not much dice. Guy third-down than randy bullock can't beat the guy in fourth round made a fifty five yard field goal in the game and he's been fine reliable kicker but if if I'm going third and. Then fourth and one I'm not trying to field goal you. Yeah and it's tough because you know bullock had has made a I mean he hadn't missed. He hadn't missed since the game against the chargers and but it's forty eight and I just you and it it does give you the lead. You know there's a lot. There's a lot to it there. But I agree with you I. Think if if that's the move, just slam it in there twice. Tried to play aggressive mean you get killed for it if you don't get it but you know that's the game I mean, that's that's part of the deal. In terms of the dynamic of the coaching staff. Zach Taylor is the feels like the walls are closing in on him. And you get some folks that go look it's. It's too early to judge them. You gotta give them a chance gotta give them a chance to to have all his own guys all the fine whatever. But. Him coming back to be the head coach in two thousand and twenty one doesn't mean he has to come back and be the head coach and have all the responsibilities that he has right now. Could you see a scenario in which Zach is the head coach and twenty one but this team has a different play caller who's not already working for the for this organization. I don't. I mean I think. y'All use more now. I just I mean anything is possible but I feel like. So much. Of why you hired Zach Taylor's because you think he is going to be a very good offensive coach. And develop and Joe Borough and I mean look you can't do it any better if that's what you cared about was having. As, far as hire some young quarterback. Guru type right is what you're trying to do. You're trying to follow that model and then get a number one overall pick and let them work together and build something. That's the idea now whether it's working or not we talked about but I'm saying that the concept is there. So the idea that you would then. Take the legs out front of the person who is working directly with said quarterback. I don't understand. If that's what you're doing that I just think you blow the whole thing up I mean I think you you just move on completely refer you. Take that part away for the last thing I would I would take away parsley. Do. You see a joe borough playing well I. Mean I think. It's the reason you have any hope we Janai played. GimMe Hope today you know just something right let's talk. Let's try to find where the hopeless you gotta start with the way job rose plane and what he can do for you. Especially, a guy that you think should take a big jump in year two is most quarterbacks. Do you know it's like the somebody tweeted this to me could. The bengals, the two thousand Twenty Bengals be the twenty one, thousand nine cardinals as you watched Monday night football last night they had the first round pick last year they went five, ten and one they seem to figure things out late in the year. Murray take another step. Yeah. You got the young offensive head coach. Could you could I don't? I don't know. But if you're building hope you're hope lies in Jonesboro and it has to start there. So whatever's best for him and I don't think what will be best for him would be. Chopping that connection out immediately unless you were blowing the whole thing right I it's just I wouldn't do that specifically and then still have. Zach Taylor here is the guy and everything else. So the part here that I have written down to ask you if the bengals would hire Hugh Jackson to be the offense coordinator just don't go down that road I don't think we don't don't want to spend if you're. If you're good at Higher Hugh Jackson. Job So he stops doing podcasts and radio shows. Some of the higher coach something. Here but. Don't. Go down that road I mean I know what are we going down the Hugh Jackson. I probably wouldn't put huge accident in as Zach Taylor offensive coordinator I. Don't see something says, I don't see that relationship. Okay Cross Cross that you WanNa talk about Andy Dalton on Monday night football night speaking of that game against the cardinals. Yeah. It's unfortunate putting that on Andy Dallas is awful. Yeah. Ezekiel Elegant Ezekiel. Elliott. Can't hang onto the football. Their defense is atrocious. Joe should have his way with that team onto some of the thirteenth and the game kind of got out of hand relatively early. So I mean antidotes not the guy who's going to bring you back from down twenty three. So I felt bad for Andy. But. Yeah I mean it's it's easy narratives to play into right I mean and it's fair I mean. He's stinks and Primetime Primetime I get. He played like a backup quarterback last night he is. A backup quarterback it's OK across those two things. It's quarter to four on Allegra. He's Paul Dana Junior more on the bengals still ahead on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station well called energy to just convinced the bengals are GonNa. Win On Sunday. -gratulations on doing that Eddie mean to I know you talked about this in detail on the podcast here that podcast growling with Jay Morrison last eleven teams blow a twenty one lead of one the following week. Yeah Jay Jay Jay's got stats Jj to, mind-blowing stats. He often doesn't tell me before he has these always blown away when he he'll track down. But yeah, he had this set of. Teams are ninety, five and one the last time they had twenty one point first leads. Out of one, it wasn't three zero coming into this past weekend. I mean it's just. Brutal. But. The last eleven teams that had a twenty one point first half lead and blew it. All one the next week eleven. Oh, how `bout that goes on Sunday at home dogs forget three and a half points. The browns were just absolutely pounded by the steelers on Sunday might be case keenum playing quarterback for them. They're not very good probably overconfident because they beat the bengals pretty good at home in week two birth. Battle of Ohio Storm. Yeah I mean you can. I mean you certainly can see it. You certainly could see it. Yeah. I'm convinced. It wasn't meant to be convincing, but that's that's what it is. So all of all of this stuff is is circling around this team and we're all smitten with with Joe Borough and understandably. So and you know you were talking about looking for for reasons to be hopeful look no further than number nine. I think it would be interesting. To be inside his head as he's taking mental notes of what's going on with this team from its inability to win to what some of the players are doing to what some guys are tweeting to. What people are excuse me saying writing about the team. We go back to the winter when folks were making the borough, why would you want to come to Cincinnati? Why would you wanNA play there and I thought people embarrass themselves in in talking about that. But to me this is this is a relevant conversation, not whether or not he would want to come to Cincinnati as the number one overall pick but are there going to be forced to drive him? From Cincinnati now this assumes a couple of things that he is going to be in a position where he can hit free agency and have the rest of the NFL trying to sign them right that he's that good of a player but there's there is a part of me that wonders. What what kind of mental notes is he taking about the environment that surrounds him and what might those notes mean for his willingness to eventually signed a second contract I know it's way early to be talking about that. It goes without saying. But all this stuff eventually does add up and we have seen players including a quarterback who got to a point where the dysfunction became too much for them to want to be part of Joe Borough has to be looking at the situation taking stock of what's going on and I wonder how that could impact things down. And Mind, you hear this never experienced anything remotely like this. In fact, he's only experienced. The exact opposite places where winning is all that happens they're winning is beyond the expectation. It's just the every day standard that continually happened Ohio state Lsu even what he did. Athens high school now when he was a standard before Joe Borough and Athens I've having Seen some of that after going. No, you I know that always wasn't. But. But the point being though he's only been around the exact opposite of this into it finding a way to win here. And winning championship or heck making the Super Bowl here. What I will say would be the greatest accomplishment of his career and I, saw every bit of fifteen last year with Lsu because you're just you're asked to do so much more. And take. Place somewhere. It's never been mentally as a concept right now and that's But you have to be thinking can is that how big of a challenge is this insurmountable i? You know I mean you're. Going through your head when you see what is happening around you absolutely i. I would love to know what's going on I. Don't think we do I. Think I think Joe. Boroughs overly confident. Probably believes he can do it. But It's the most important thing that we don't know is is what I think about all this. Yes. I he's not going to tell you nor should he tell you but that whether or not Zach Taylor is here next year what whether or not Luana Room owes coaching the defense whether or not Al Godin. Insists on wearing a time the sideline when he's calling these third down packages that were so excited about none of that stuff really matters that much. What does matter is what Joe Borough Mix of the US that seems to be enveloping franchise yet again that he had to have be warned about I mean all that conversation was based on the bengals being this picture of at times dysfunction and chaos and granted there have been many times where I've defended at going look I know. I watched it with the jets. I watched with the Browns I've seen it in Oakland and places like that. This has been a franchise that at times has been credited and. So, for being really well run at the same time, it does feel like over the last couple of years going back to since before Zach Taylor like. Locker Room Culture what's happening with veteran players players being pissed off other issues sort of bubbling to the surface when the losing snowballs. that. That's been a part of this franchise for a little while now I'm sure Joe Borough knows that the fact it's happening him happening in front of him is that's not encouraging. You have to have. The young core with Joe Borough leading the way of that be the ones. To set the record straight to be the ones to. For lack of a better term fight anybody that wants to do it differently and and that is that is Joe Borough and it's all these these young guys whether it's Jesse Bateson Sam Hubbard and all these guys that are part of the new that you have to have that that has to be what von but these guys you brought in that our leaders von bell reader and we hear so much about the type of leaders Josh binds the type they will be and can be take ownership of it. You have to have that in some capacity if it continues to feel disjointed than than you have no hope you know I don't know. What that means for anybody going forward. But it feels like that's the thing that's that's missing right now and it goes back to where we started this conversation just cleared out give those guys the chance to be those guys at the various what else you got to lose more games? Yes. Let's go in a damn game. Win Again. Don't WanNa Damn game on Sunday that's where I am right now and you've convinced me they will so. I, appreciate you doing that? was certainly not my objective. I really thought that's the last thing that would come out of this hour. You've revived my passion for this game on Sunday. We just sat here through one of the most like. Negative forty five minutes and I came out of it convincing you something good was going to win on Sunday and. then. There's GonNa. Be a lot of see see. He's not a Shula most. So I'm excited. I'm excited and now thank you for. That's what brought you here. Check some enthusiasm and optimism into the proceedings did not anticipate. That's where this I just don't get the ball of odd J. P. Ron. Gain hanging in the balance look at your roster look at whatever the thing that Zach Taylor is holding during the game look at that pick anybody but him literally anybody but him and I'll be happy. I would have enjoyed. Drew sample being involved just for you on that play I would have enjoyed that there was a second in ten runner in that game or couple of mine were there were a couple a couple of them would you like to have there was a situation of the game last night were Andy Dalton trailing by twenty five points handed off on second and fifteen. As somebody who last night was rooting for Ami to football game in prime time even then I lost my mind. All right Paul thanks so much. You can read them in the athletic here that podcast growling is the podcast he does with Jay Morrison to make sure you're following him on twitter at Paul Dinner Junior couple minutes away from four o'clock. Still Ahead, a lot more on the bengals have to react to the news of Nick being the new. President of baseball operations for the reds nipple will be on our show next week we're excited for that. That'll be on Tuesday of next week. So some look forward to Paul here in crawl on the phone that'd be fun and look fickle from earlier today, his football team is getting set to go to Dallas to take on SMU. You'll hear the best of today's press conference with of UC head coach coming up at four, forty, five on. ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station. Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment. Our new investment product offers competitive returns, no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. Make the reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy, reliability investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com that's reliability investment dot com.

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Case 159: James Craig Anderson

Casefile True Crime

1:19:25 hr | 10 months ago

Case 159: James Craig Anderson

"You'll home tells your story whether you're not lava across collector or just love a well curated space article is here with paces that hope you showcase your personal style. With designs crafted from Solid Woods touchable textures and a refund color Palette. Articles latest collection makes it easy to create a home that feels uniquely like you. Articles team of designers focuses on beautifully made paces, quality materials, and durable construction. They had dedicated to a modern aesthetic of mid-century, Scandinavian industrial, and Bohemian designs. Case balls composer Andrew wanted to update the decor in time and was instantly in love with the online user experience of article. The website was easy to navigate and they had such a variety of beautiful well made furniture to choose from. Injured chose some rugs to throw for his house and loves have the paces compliment. He's home furnishings. Articles offering listeners, of case, ball fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more. GO TO DICLE DOT com slash case file and the discount will automatically be applied at checkout. That's article. Dot Com slash case file to get fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more. Air episodes do serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any anytime, you need support please across the central FA suggested found number confidential support place show nights for this episode on your APP or an hour it. In the early hours, of Sunday, June twenty, six, two, thousand eleven, James Anderson who went by his middle name of Craig found himself in a predicament. He had locked his case inside his car. It was a setback the happy go lucky forty, seven year old African American man wasn't prepared for. Chri had gone out alone the previous evening as he's husband of Eighteen Years James was rusted onto work and not shift over the weekend. Our Zolia James had phoned craig to remind him to stop packing for their upcoming trip to Chicago in celebration of Craig's forty eighth birthday in five days tone. Deaf Cole ended with the men telling one another I love you. Craig's orange, Chevy Avalanche was parked in a lot of the Metro win a budget hotel in his home city of Jackson, Mississippi. Located near the intersection of highway eighty in the city's west, the lot was relatively small with round two dozen angled parking spots split into two near Avon rose. A Wendy's fast food restaurant was located on its northern Boorda with winding on and off ramps for the interstate twenty highway to the south. The law was partially framed with small tree line nature strips and access to the aced via frontiers road and to the West from the busy thoroughfare Avella Avenue. Shortly after full forty-five Im as Craig assess these options a what Jeb Cherokee v carrying four occupants and to the parking lot. Too, young occasion man got out of the vehicle and approached Craig who explained his dilemma. He asked the pair. If they had a coat hanger, he could use to try Jimmy the lock in his car door. The men moved back and forth dead Jay and Craig's CAA engaging Craig in conversation while seemingly looking for an autumn that could be of assistance. Fifteen minutes light up a dock green Ford F to fifty pickup truck carrying three occupants drove into the COP hawk before leaving via the LS avenue exit. The two men who were hoping crag go back into the Jape and followed the food. Moments light off by vehicles returned and stopped in close vicinity to wear Craig was waiting by his car. The two men who had assisted cry go Gola emerged from that Jape and joined by the driver of the Ford a young what Glum head blue eyed. He called cry a racist slur and yoed. Get away from white truck. Suddenly one of the men from the Jape punched Craig in the face knocking him to the ground. The driver of the Ford then straddled Craig and proceeded to hit him repeatedly around the head while casting and shouting racial abuse. The remaining passengers of the group's two vehicles watched on as the assailants spent the next three and a half minutes bathing. Craig. Afterwards. He stalled crags mobile phone wallet and Wedding Ring Before Jumping back into the driver's sade of the Ford. As the JAPE. Drive away one of its passengers Yoda. What Pale? In response, the driver of the Ford raised his fist in the air and yelled back. What. Pale. As the Ford pulled out of the parking lot. That's headlights. So luminated Craig stumbling along the edge of LS avenue just to the right of the exit. The. Drove us towards him mansard the curb and rainy Nova. The fords occupants yelled more racial abuse you out of the window as the vehicle sped away. The State of Mississippi is located in America's deep South bordered by Louisiana Alabama and Arkansas. During the eighteen hundreds, black slaves were used to tend to the farming land that was signed by Mississippi's watt citizens, and by eighteen sixty, they slaves accounted for fifty five percent of the state's population. The state was so heavily invested in slavery that Rice became a dominant theme of Mississippi's politics. On. Nine eighteen sixty one Mississippi declared secession from the union and became one of America's original confederate states. In the declaration, slavery was referred to as quite the greatest material interest of the world. In April that same year the ongoing controversy between the southern and northern states over of the enslavement of black table gave rise to the American civil war. A variety, thousand mississippians Ford in the war. Many of whom, when, motivated by fear of losing what supremacy. During this time, the majority of Mississippi's black population wearing slave tend to living on plantations. Many had been forced there by ship or overland fired the domestic slave trade. In, eighteen sixty five when the confederacy was defeated and the civil war ended slavery was abolished by the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution with Mississippi. Bang one of the few states that voted against the amendment. Five years later, Mississippi rejoined the US union but the state continued to face intense interracial conflict and was center stage during the Civil Rights Movement of the Mid Twentieth. Century. This was most evident in the state capital city. Jackson. Known as the city with Saul Jackson is renowned for its music architecture museums, historic cultural districts, performing arts, and vibrant nightlife. However luck. The rest of Mississippi. The city has a dock and complex history when it comes to racial inequality. Between Eighteen, seventy, seven and nineteen fifty, twenty, two people were lynched in Jackson's hinds county more than anywhere else in the state. In nineteen fifty four, the federal government's forced end to segregation resulted in Jackson becoming more racially diverse. This prompted many what people to move away from the city rendering some neighborhoods of Jackson, almost exclusively black. One of the most infamous hate crimes that occurred in Mississippi was the nineteen, fifty, five murder of fourteen year old Emmett till a black teenager who allegedly wolf whistled at a white woman. In retaliation for this perceived slot to white men kidnapped and killed, and before dumping his buddy into the Hatschi. River. An old what jury acquitted men even though they later admitted to the Murtaugh. Another rice fueled incident occurred in nineteen, sixty, four when to nineteen year old black. Man Charles Moore and Henry. Day were murdered by members of the White supremacist tight group the Ku Klux. Klan. In the Mississippi town of Roxy. Charles and tannery would todd to trae Bayton and then dumped in the Mississippi River to drown. That same year a gang of Ku Klux klansmen that included several police, officers abducted and murdered one black man. James Chaney and to what Jewish men Andrew Goodman and Michael Shmona in Shelby County because they were trying to help black people registered to vote. During the nineteen sixties several serious crimes were committed against civil rights activists by SUPREMACISTS and racist aggression was constant. In nineteen sixty, three civil rights activist Medgar Evers was shot outside his time by a member of the Ku Klux Klan which caused national outrage and was pivotal to the passing of the civil. Rights Act the following year. From, nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety. Jackson's what population dropped to forty three percent and by two thousand what paypal accounted for just over a quarter of the city's population. Although that number showed a slight increase by two thousand eleven racially motivated crimes committed by what paypal against the city's black citizens remained prevalent. Cry. Gissin had lived in Jackson Mississippi Fa most the visa doll. He was originally from Holmes County and was primarily raised by his mother after his father died. Craig one of four children with an older sister and two younger brothers. He grew up to become a content courteous. person who was particularly caring towards children and the elderly. He's defining Veja was what he sees the Barbara Cold. He's grand piano smile. As a young man Craig moved seventy. Mile Seth to Jackson Wearing nineteen ninety-three at the age of thirty. He was introduced to James another African American man. James later told journalists Dow Samah from buzzfeed news that by the end of the first day, the pad full lung for one another. The cautious and organized the James Kept Craig in check while Craig's warm and easy going personality allowed James to loosen up a little. On a number of occasions James Surprise Craig with trips to cities locked Chicago New Orleans and Miami. The the couple were more comfortable being affectionate in public unlocking Jackson. When members of the L. J. Take you walk immunity often faced discrimination. Five us into their relationship James and Craig aboard a house in Jackson. James wasn't initially Kane on the property as he thought, it was ugly. Craig its potential and spent the next few years turning it into one time. He put in new flooring painted the walls, renovated the kitchen and planted a garden full of flowers. Cry Goal. So picked out all of the furniture and decorated the house with plush green carpet and paintings of. The. Couple were active churchgoers had the first hard Park Missionary Baptist? Church where Craig's sang tenor in the Choir Two Thousand Four Craig, and James had been together for eleven years and two knew they wanted to spend the rest of their lives together. At the time Mississippi didn't recognize same sex marriage. So they hold a private ceremony in new, Orleans where they exchanged vows in drains. Months. Mudslide Craig was offered a job as a production technician had a Nissen vehicle manufacturing plant in Canton, roughly twenty miles north of Jackson. Craig was thrilled as the position was higher paid than his previous job and to James Light Atoll to buzzfeed news that he reacted by quite. Jumping around smiling, it was the best diabetes live. The Kabul celebrated with a trip to Memphis Tennessee. In two, thousand, seven, the situation arose within James's extended family that resulted in a relative knitting to ray home. Then you born baby boy. James was IGA to adopt the Craig wasn't sure that were ready for the responsibility. They decided to proceed with the adoption and Craig immediately embraced to the role of a devoted father. He loved spoiling their adopted son with chocolates and toys. James the latest stated. Those were the years when we were like this is it we're going to lock out life. We both got good jobs. We were living real comfortable. We had everything we wanted. We go to church we go to work we pay taxes and come home to family. That's all he can ask for. In the only Allah is, of Sunday June twenty, six, two, thousand, eleven nine one one received a call from a woman Jackson's metro win just off Hawaii. Eighty. She had just witnessed dock Green Ford pickup truck run over a black man in the motels parking lot. The perpetrators who were identified as being young and to what we're also heard hurling racial abuse at the victim. When police arrived at the Metro win, they found several law right people gathered around a severely injured and unresponsive Craig Anderson on the curb of LS, avenue just outside the COP. Hawk. Craig was rushed to hospital, but he's injuries, Wes Avi, and the situation dire. He's attack is would divided between two vehicles, the Ford used in the hit and run and a what J. SUV. Both 'cause will witness the driving past the lot immediately after the attack while they're passages pointed and aloft. Police bed onto the interstate twenty where the Ford was lost sawed at traveling, aced and up to the vehicle. As they pulled up so added. Oversaw locked ause with the draw a young man with blond hair and blue eyes. The officer noted. He had this blank stare about him. It was chilling like a cold hearted look. I'll never forget that look. The draw was ordered to pull over and to provide his driver's license which identified him has nineteen year old. Darrell deadman. Though two female passengers in his truck seventeen-year-old, she'll be rigid and eighteen year old Sarah, graves. All three teams acted lock. They had no idea why the Palais said pulled them over with the deadman's domain a- akin to someone on their way home after an uneventful day. Shelby Richard same to think the hall law deal was a joke while Sarah Graves appeared uncomfortable as though she was pod of something she didn't want to be involved with. The police inspected the fords exterior and found blood and brain matter on the right side of the front bumper. Lighted that morning James returned to the home he shit with Craig. Anderson. After finishing his graveyard shift that the airplane parts factory where he worked. He quickly discovered that he's husband was an hyme and the next thing he knew police officers were knocking at the door. They revealed that Craig had bane in an accident I've not. James. Asked to go see him. The offices informed him that it wouldn't be possible as Craig had been killed. Darrell deadman shelby rigid. Sarah Graves would taken into custody interviewed separately. Deadman tell police that Craig Anderson had jumped in front of his truck while Richards who was deadman's go friend loft, which was brought into the interview room. In. Contrast Sarah, graves appeared in shock and to his crying. Once, she had settled shade detailed the laid up to the incident. On the nod of Saturday June, twenty, five graves and several dozen other, you were celebrating a birthday in a field near the village of pocket around thirty miles southeast of Jackson. Died engaged in underage drinking around a bonfire until the potty reached its conclusion at full fifth day nine am. Ten potty Kaoh is then made a plan to make up at a gas station in Brandon a predominantly white neighborhood on the outskirts of Jackson with the majority of the youths lived. At the gas station, the group discussed going to Jackson, which was a short drive west. Three partygoers colder not and went home while the remaining seven committed to the trip. Twenty three year old William Montgomery drove eighteen year olds, John Ross and John Lilac and twenty year old Dylan Law in he's what? Jeep Cherokee? SUV. Darrell deadman took Sarah Graves and shelby reaches in his Green Ford F to fifty pickup truck. During the drive into Jackson deadman and the girls received a coal from the Jape. Occupants informing them that they were parked in the lot next to the metro win on LS year. Sarah Graves claimed that when they arrive Ross and blaylock with talking to a black man in the motos carpark. Deadman then confronted demand and the pig got into a physical altercation. After the fought, the dead men returned to the Ford and referred to demand using racist terminology. Graves told detectives. We started pulling out and the guy was walking towards us and deadman just stepped on it. The Gos- slipped under the car and then I freaked out and I'll wayne into Locke's shock. Couldn't breathe couldn't say anything I didn't know what to do. Always scared. Afterwards deadman Cold Montgomery to brag about what he had done. The two groups then rake in vain de nearby McDonald's restaurant went dead men laugh as he surveyed the front bumper of his car. Off To six hours at the police station, Sarah. Graves was released without charge as was show be richards. Graves was picked up by her mother Mary who later described her daughter seeming scared to death. She had Sarah admitted into hospital believing that she was suicidal. In the meantime a remorseless Darrell deadman was formerly charged with Craig gained essenes murder. He posted the required fifteen percent of his fifty thousand dollar bond securing his release pending trial. Police obtained say TV footage from a security camera that I've alert the LS avenue entrance to the car park. By his vehicles were filmed entering the law though only the Ford remained in view. Although the physical assault on Craig Anderson occurred off camera multiple figures could be saying moving in and out of frame between the fought and the to 'cause. Before leaving one figure believed to be Darrell deadman was captured punching a fist in the air and was other heard by security God yelling what Paola? Aven Noah trae partly obscured the area where Craig was run over deadman's Ford could be saying steering up onto the curb and behind the tray before rising up I've is something and back down again. One office said. It sent chills just watching the say say you couldn't believe it. Diane. Craig. Into Send Down Lock Dog Detectives soon learned that the assault was instigated by teenager John, Ross. After arriving at the car park Ross and fellow J. Passenger John Blaylock had approached Craig as he tried to access he's locked car. Die He pretended to help. Lead to turn on Craig once a deadman arrived. Ross Black and deadman and confronted Craig -together. Dead men referred to Crag using racial SLA and yelled get away from what truck. Ross through the first punch before deadman continued the attack. As a result John Ross was also charged with Craig's murder. Discharge was ultimately reduced to simple assault after Ross's attorney successfully argued that his client had left in Jape before the fatal hit and run took place. Ross paid. He's five thousand dollars bond and was released. The apparent rice bass motive for Craig's murder developed further as the investigation continued. Sarah. Graves had told detectives that Darryl deadman was racist has she had heard him once say that he can't stand black people. For the more witnesses had I ever heard dead Ben, and others Yelling Racial Abuse Craig referred to him in a derogatory manner and chant the racist slogan what Paola immediately after the attack. However the US involved remained tight lipped when questioned about their interactions with Craig and to their reasons for being in Jackson that gnawed. John Ross is attorney claimed that the group had gone to Jackson to buy alcohol and to not to harass or assault anyone. Despite days assertions, investigators sought to present the case as a hate crime, but there wasn't enough evidence for the district attorney to proceed down that path. News of Craig Anderson's Murdoch outraged Jackson's black community prompting them to rate yet the Civil Rights Attorney Jedi Ellen's the second. Owens worked for the Southern Poverty Law Santa a not for profit organization known for taking legal action against what supremacists and other extremist groups. In an effort to establish that the crime was racially motivated owens hired a private investigator to conduct an independent inquiry into Craig's death. Middle aged what Mayo was tactically chosen for the task as hey would be able to circulate easily within the communities where the suspects lived. The peon discovered that the seven youths present for Craig's murder along with several others had visited Jackson on multiple occasions to conduct what they had called hunting. The process involved searching the city for vulnerable black paypal to harass and attack. The investigate also discovered that Darryl Dedman. Had gives who belonged to what supremacist groups. Jd Owens, shared the findings with the FBI and five days after Craig's murder they opened an investigation of their own. They found out that a few weeks prior to Craig's death Darrell deadman had been robbed by a black. Man. This supported the belief that the hit and run had been any intentional act by deadman luckily motivated by revenge. Craig. Ganda funeral was held six days after his death had his own parish the first Hyde Park Baptist. As requested by the Anderson Family, disservice focused on celebrating Craig's life rather than the brutal nature of death and there was no mention of hey or Ranga. Craig Sista Bob Ross spoke of her brother's love cooking. He sense a fashion and he's huma. She called his death on timely and chose not to speak out against those responsible. Pasta. Bryan Richardson and he seventeen year old son Jordan with to the few what people in attendance? Jordan attended brandon high school with Darrell deadman and had endured two years of violent bullying at his hands partly because he had black friends. Earlier that year deadman had been arrested and convicted of misdemeanor harassment against Jordan and was on probation at the time of Craig's murder. On July sixth two, thousand eleven Darrell deadman was called back to court for a bond revocation hearing. The prosecution when now confidently calling the murder of Craig Anderson a hate crime. Often presenting the evidence that supported that position. The prosecution put forward that deadman had left the party in the early hours of June twenty six with the intention of going in search of a black person to attack. DEADMAN's attorney rejected as allegations, but the judge was satisfied with the evidence presented and deadman's bond was increased from fifty thousand dollars to white hundred thousand dollars. Unable to secure the payment deadman was placed in police custody two white trial. By, this stage deceased ATV footage from the metro in parking lot had been leaked to the press and broadcast on televised news reports throughout the country. As a result, deadman was oscillated in jail for he's aimed safety. Main Wall. The assistant police chief told CNN reporters that Craig's death was an isolated incident and deny that the attack was pod of biggest story. CNN also spoke with the Jordan. Richardson. The teenager deadman had been previously convicted of harassing. Jordan. said that deadman. had a look of no conscience and carry it around this backpack of hatred. Jordan's father passed Bryan Richardson told CNN. Had Warranty saw about deadman's volatility and had been worried that deadman might go as far as to kill Jordan. Pastor Richardson had told the police that was painfully clear that deadman was going to win just Salman. Severely all possibly kill someone. Other Brandon Hall school students told CNN that deadman and he's friends bullied what classmates who had black friends and use the racist language in real life and online. Hey had protested at school when Barack Obama was elected America's first African American President and referred to him using racist insults on social. Media. According to the students school administrators mostly looked the other way racial hatred and bullying intensified. When CNN contacted, Brandon high administrators a spokesperson told them that the school bullying very seriously and had no record of any incidents involving dead men. A foam a friend revealed that deadman and his group were referred to as the Brandon boys and one nine fa going out at naught to target black individuals. Ken Johnson the manager of a service station in Brandon deadman and he's friends off and hung out told San An. That same to like every word that came out of their mouth was the N. word. Ken Once told the group to mind their behavior after he is the heard, them say that black people were taking over the town. Ken told San An. Deadman, made it well known that he didn't like a gay or black paypal. He told about Jackson being a predominantly black city and said, he's parents grew up and moved away because of old as Blackpool. Many brandon locals were outraged that the Tan was being accused of racism and told reporters that they didn't view cry again Dawson's death as a hate crime. While they agreed that deadman had violated the law they didn't believe he targeted Craig because of ease rice. A white senior from brandon high told the Jackson free press that the residents of Brandon were very down to worth and that she was worried Craig's death would reflect poorly on them. Quote. Brandon is one of the top places to live in the country. There is nothing bad about brandon. It's a shame that crime happened. deadman's youngest sister told The New York Times. Wedges country and whoever comes here we welcome everybody. This whole thing is getting blown out of proportion. DEADMAN's uncle described his nephew as good boy from a happy go lucky family who got involved with the wrong crowd. A relative of John Ross deadman's co-accused took to facebook to say that Ross wasn't a murderer but had fallen victim to trial by media and was suffering from quote. Reverse racism. Another facebook user echoed this sentiment rubbing. If this was the other way around and a black guy ran over a white boy that would not be a hate crime. Baseless rumors spread around Brandon that Craig's death was drug related prompting Michael Beasley the what president of Jackson State University's Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of colored, paypal to speak. Yeah. Michael who was a reformed racist himself stated. It's much easier for ranking canny to blame the black man then take responsibility for this crime. Right now, the problem is in their churches, homes and schools. This doesn't have anything to do with a drug deal gone bad. They are looking for an excuse to make themselves feel better. Gerald rose founder of the new water national human rights. Organization. said that the situation could be used to provoke a level headed discussions about race relations. Quite. When I saw the video or shed teas. That could have been may or it could have been my son's. We, want to call for a healing process and at the same time we are aware racism is still alive. I can't believe stuff like this is going on in the year two thousand eleven. On. August fourteen two thousand eleven more than five hundred people including clergyman elected officials and supporters of all races gathered at the new. Horizon. Church. In Jackson to march against racial injustice. T shirts were distributed amongst the protesters printed with the slogan. City. They marched through. Jackson singing. We shall Iva come and this little lot of mine before gathering in the Metro Wing Cop. For a candle light vigil. Rabbi Valerie Cohen told the attendees. We are here to unify and to tate yourselves and our children and everyone out there that love is a better way to live. Here to get beyond hatred. Craig's husband James was in too much emotional pain to attend the vigil. He told buzzfeed news that following the murder. He had purchased a gun in fear that Craig's attack is would also come him. He blamed himself for not being with cry on the not he was killed saying. Off should've Bain there I always protected him. And that was my job. James Lost Faith, and stopped going to church to work instead spending his days crying in bed with the lots off and the curtains drawn. As a result, the couples full year old adopted son went to live with the James's mother. James avoided the news as he didn't want to say this, say footage of Craig's death. One afternoon James was driving his adopted son to his mother's house when he said. You can't go that way. That's where dead men killed Craig Stunned James looked around and realized that they were passing the metro. Wing. Car Park. He asked his son how he knew what happened there to which the child responded. Soared on TV. Almost two months after cry Janssen's death Daryl deadman's murder charge was upgraded to capital murder. Under Mississippi Law, a capital murder charge arises wed. the circumstances of an unlawful killing includes one of the prescribed list of aggravating factors. The relevant aggravating factor in the cry again to sink case was the Craig had been killed during the commission of a robbery as deadman had stolen his phone wallet and Wedding Ring. If convicted of capital murder, there was the possibility that deadman would face the death penalty. For online SELLA's handling Lodging Fox voters can quickly become overwhelming especially around the holidays. How UK, track of who gets what which carry US should you use? Are you getting the best rights? That's why case files choices ship station DOT. COM, they take the hassle out of holidays shipping ship station helps online sellers get orders out quickly, save money on shipping costs and Cape customers happy. 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While they're they harassed the black individuals whom they perceived to be homeless or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. As they believed, these targets would be less likely to resist or report their attacks to police. Investigators. uncovered four separate incidents involving some of the youths present during Craig Anderson attack. On, one occasion, Darrell Deadman John Ross in Joan Lilac William Montgomery John Ross's brother twenty year old Robert Ross and twenty year old Jonathan Gas camp drive into Jackson armed with a handgun. The group Fan intoxicated black man alone near a golf course and Bateman until he begged ferries loss. Gas Campbell size threatened to shoot the man. On another occasion deadman Lilac Montgomery and the Ross brothers would driving through Jackson when they spotted a black male pedestrian near a gas station. Robert Ross who was driving Montgomery's Jape accelerated in the direction of the man and neely ran him down. Witnesses said that if the man hadn't moved, he would've been hit. Another time blalock Montgomery, the Ross brothers, and Shelby Richards lured a black man into believing they wanted to buy drugs but instead blaylock punched him in the face. The full incident involved Lilac and Montgomery along with Dylan Butler who was also present on the nod of Craig's murder twenty one year old. Joseph. Dominic and an unnamed fifth person. Together they hold be bottles of black pedestrians causing one man to fall to the ground. They also stopped sporting goods store and purchase the slingshot. Then took turns shooting medal ball bearing said any black people dying counted, including those who are visibly ped- and attain age boy riding his boss ICAL. The FBI also, Ray interviewed Sarah Graves. The teenage girl who had been riding in Darrell deadman's Ford at the time of Craig Anderson's murder. Graves had previously provided the police with a summary of events leading up to the killing but admitted to the FBI are that she had been lying about her on the night and had withheld information. She now admitted to being one of the main driving forces behind recruiting partygoers to take the hunting trip into Jackson that not. Shea along with the Darrell deadman shall be rigid and just lack had encouraged others to join them for a trip into Jeff, Rica to quote faulk with some black people. Are blaylock also gathered up empty glass bottles from the Potty to use as projectiles. ESPN concluded that although the seven individuals who went into Jackson in the early hours of Sunday June twenty six must not of had a specific plan to kill they definitely intended to harm or harass. Montgomery had driven Jape into the city while Black Butler and John Ross threw bottles that black the distributions. When they sputtered Craig Anderson. Stranded by he's locked car they perceived him as being drunk. After. Finding Dead Men's group to tell them to come to the parking lot black and Roy surprised cry Kanda the guys of offering assistance. They converse with Craig in order to stole the situation until dead men, graves, and Richards arrived in the Ford. Breaches. Her boyfriend deadman to assault Craig. Ross through the initial punch before deadman continued the assault which left Craig severely batted but alive. Deadman then got back in his car and drive over Craig while he and his girlfriend shotted racial abuse out the window it remained unclear which of the youth in the Jape I yelled out what Palo but it was dead men who repeated the Chan. all-star covered that the racial violence carried out by the young offenders was well known. In Brandon, in fact, dozens of what pains from the area knew about the group's actions that they did nothing to stop them. On September six two thousand eleven craig. Anderson's family filed a civil wrongful death suit against the Darrell deadman John Ross Sarah Graves Shelby Rigid William Montgomery Dylan bought La, and John Lilac. The suit alleged that while low seven of the kids weren't directly responsible for assaulting and killing. Craig they were role negligent because they didn't try to stop the attack, provide any assistance to Craig or call the police. Craig's mother and siblings who were listed as plaintiffs stated, they would forever be deprived of Craig's comfort services, financial support, and companionship. Given that Mississippi didn't acknowledge same sex marriage at the time. James was unable to join the family civil claim as hey wasn't considered to have any legal standing in the matter. While awaiting trial Darrell deadman penned a letter to his youngest sister. In it he claimed that he had committed himself to Jesus and warned her to stay away from trouble. He blamed his actions on alcohol and he's Friendship Group rubbing Ding. Must so called friends got me in here. As dead men's capital murder arraignment of. Craig Sister Barbara wrote a letter to the district attorney on behalf of her family requesting that the death penalty be taken off the table. Share explained that the Andersons were opposed to capital punishment in pot because of their Christian beliefs and because of its historic association against Papal of Kala. The let us stated. Those responsible. For Craig's death not only ended the law of talented and wonderful man they. You also have caused del Finley unspeakable pain and Greif. Bud L. Loss will not be lessened by the state taking the life of another. As Coretta Scott King cited in explaining her opposition to the death penalty. Enabled Dade is not redeemed by naval aide of retaliation. Executing Craig's killers will not help balance the sky. On September twenty one, two, thousand eleven dead men entered a plea of not guilty and was ordered to remain in custody until his trial commenced early the following year. In the months leading up to the event a dispute again, Iva whether Dead Ben should be tried in Jackson. The prosecution wanted the trial to be held where the crime occurred as the jury pool would be predominantly black. The deadman's lawyers wanted to move it to another jurisdiction with Elijah what population. The debate came to an abrupt end when on March twenty one, two, thousand, twelve Darrell deadman pleaded guilty to the charge of capital murder. Hey delivered pre pads steinman in which he apologized to the Anderson family and ask for their forgiveness. Quote. I take full responsibility for my actions on that not. A did a very malicious thing for no reason. Deadman told the court that he was a changed man who had found religion since his arrest and said. I was young and dumb ignorant and full of hatred. Autos to go down the wrong path. Craig's sister Barbara delivered a statement to the court on behalf of her family that. Red. Days last few months of Bain very difficult. We cried we wept we reminisced about a beloved brother Craig a loss suck and not even explain. Craig was a big hearted person. One Who loved his fellow man? Caring family oriented and a big sense of humor. My brother Craig would give you the shirt off of his back. Way, the Anderson family praying for racial reconciliation, not only in Mississippi but all over this land and country. We approaching that the defendant deadman and he's family. Fond Pace. Under Mississippi Law, a defendant can be given a sentence if their actions of fanned to bay a hate. Crime. Presiding Judge Jeff a wheel did exactly that sentencing Darrell deadman to two life sentences to be served concurrently. Judge Wheel stated. Mr deadman having heard your admissions the very wolves of this court s Croix out, for justice. You have admitted killing a man simply because of he's rice. You'll prejudice has brought shame upon you and place the great stain on the State of Mississippi. Whatever excuse you may offer for what you have done. Forget that. There is no excuse you can offer to the family of Mr Anderson or to your fellow Mississippians who have to try to reconcile the horrible damage you have caused. All the hard work we have done to move fast date forward has gained by you a stain which will take years to fade. Addressing the Anderson Family. Directly. Judge Wheel then said No that mississippians think about this senseless crime, the way you think about it. With all her troubled past the state of Mississippi stands with you today and condemns this despicable crime and says, there is no excuse for this. After the sentencing, the district attorney of Jackson said he expected further charges be placed against a dead men with more arrests today. Quote. This is just the beginning. That same day, Darrell deadman and John Ross and Dylan. Butler will charged with one can of conspiracy and one of committing crimes in violation of the Federal Hate Crimes Prevention. Act of two, thousand nine. These charges were in relation today history of racially motivated crime including the murder of cry again Tueson. Old Three young men denied being racist all being raised have a hatred of African Americans. Regardless, the next day of March twenty, two, two, thousand, twelve, they age pleaded guilty mocking the first time that the hate crimes prevention act had never been used in a case where the defendant's actions. In a victim's death. They appeared in court for sentencing in February two thousand fifteen threes and seven months soft out. Craig. Anderson's murder. Judge. Carlton Raves the Second Black Federal Judge in Mississippi's history presided. James prepared a statement to be read on his behalf during proceedings as hey still couldn't bear to speak publicly about he's husband's murder. It read. You will don't have a clue what you have really done to my family in committing this terrible crime. James Craig Anderson was a great man he was a man who loved his family and was a great provider to ask son and me. We had a great life and we miss him so much. Since he's death at lives have been turned upside down. James spoke of the detrimental impact Craig's murder had on his own mental health. He's inability to work and the challenges he he had since face does a single parent. My heart gets so heavy at times because I feel like a Valya because I couldn't keep up the things. Craig did Farrah's. We were always there for each other we supported each other and we can find at HR. I wish none of you would ever say daylight again, there is no room on earth for people lock you. Judge Carlton Raves delivered a long and powerful sentencing speech that touched on the state's troubled past with lynchings and racial injustice. Quote. On, June twenty six, two, thousand eleven, four days short of his forty ninth birthday. The blood of James Craig. Anderson was added to Mississippi soil. New Generations have attempted to pull Mississippi from the abyss of moral depravity in which at once. So proudly flounder in. Despite much progress and the efforts of the new generations, these three defendants before me today. They ended their co-conspirators ripped off the scab of the healing scars of Mississippi causing her to bleed again. Dairies up. No doubt that in view of the court, the victims were targeted because of their race. The simple fact is that what turned these children into criminal defendants was their joint decision to act on? Racial Hatred. In the eyes of these defendants and their co-conspirators, the victims would doom that birth. That genetic makeup made them targets. On top of the two lots sentences, Darrell deadman had received for the state capital murder charge judge raves sentenced him to an additional fifty years in prison. He's federal hate crimes. deadman would I say he's fifty year sentence in federal prison and then be moved to a state facility to serve out he's to love sentences. John Ross who had instigated the unprovoked attack on Craig was given eighteen years and four months imprisonment. Dylan Butler who was present, but didn't participate was sentenced to seven years. Acting Assistant Attorney General Vanita Gupta said that they sentences proved that the Department of Justice would vigorously pursue individuals who committed racially motivated assaults and would. Cast a broad net to ensure that all who commit such acts a brought to justice. William Montgomery who had driven the Jape on the night of Craig, gained a since murder and had also participated in other hunting expeditions was also charged with one can of conspiracy to commit a high crime and one can of committing high-crime. Hey. was sentenced to whiting years and to nine months in prison. Jonathan Gas camp who participated in the Gulf course attack and made threats to kill was also charged with one can of conspiracy and one can of committing crimes. Hey was sentenced to four years. Hey one of three people charged for their participation in the racist gang but was not present for Craig. Anderson's murder. Another, who was not present for Craig's Murdoch. Joseph Dominic, struck a deal to waive the grand jury and dot men and in return claimed guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit a hate crime. Hey was sentenced to four years. Judge, Colton, raves acknowledged the courts belief that if it wasn't for Craig and distance death, the youth would have returned to Jackson to continue their mission to harm. The remaining members of the Rice's gang and John Blaylock Shelby Richards and Sarah Graves where aged charged with committing a high crime against Craig? Anderson which carried a possible off sentence. They along with the John Ross Perot site charged with willfully conspiring to cause bodily harm to African Americans in Jackson. Blaylock and Robert Ross also received charges for the attacks leading up to Craig's murder including for carrying a firearm. Shelby Richards and Sarah bribes faced additional charges for enlisting others to commit hate crimes, and in the case of graves FA lying to the FBI to conceal the fact that the crime was racially motivated. Lilac Robert, Ross Richards, and graves. So I did drunken judgment, youthful foolishness and P. pressure from Darrell deadman for their participation in the attacks. They age pleaded not guilty and were laced on a one hundred, thousand dollar unsecured bond pending trial. However. Several months light off old four changed their plays to guilty. PRYATTA sentencing Sarah Graves as mother Mary right to the court asking for leniency saying that she didn't raise her daughter to bear racist. On Benign to Mary Sarah had already written to the court decided that her racist abuse had formed during her childhood as her mother frequently used tight full racist language jet home. Mary was questioned in court about the content of her daughters let up. But she remained in denial insisting she raised her children Rod. Judge Henry Wing Ghei. said that graves couldn't make the excuse that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time because she was in the place she wanted to bay being the person she wanted to bay. But just didn't want to get. Cool. Craig System Barbara addressed the graves and richards saying. You sat watched encouraged and rallied around as my brother was beaten. You'll thirst for the blood of innocent African, American caused you to pull more fuel on the fire. Craig's husband James who had miceli stayed silent during the court proceedings told the young women. You. Text that everyone that not but you couldn't call nine one one. You are as much to blame as you feed bane behind the wheel. You'll babies yourselves but I feel, sorry for you. You knew what you were doing. Shelby Richards was sentenced to eight years and Sarah. Graves would serve five. Speaking outside of court graves his mother Mary said, she believed that presiding judge Henry Wing. Ghei was racist and should be taken off the bench. Graves, his attorney grade saying. Always dealing with a black judge who was showing racial hatred towards what? Hey was being racist. Everybody's racist on convinced of that. Sometimes they know it sometimes I don't know it. In response judgments commented to the New York Times quite. This notion of reverse discrimination is one that has plagued racial progress. The term usually signifies apathy for the riots bestowed upon African Americans. Robots already enjoyed by most whites. During John Black sentencing hearing Pasta Bryan Richardson testified on his behalf telling the court that Lilac lacked a great deal of self esteem and wanted to fit in. Pasta Richardson claimed that black had been bullied by the group and finally joined to them in order to survive adding that at least three Danes had taken their own lives off the being bullied by the group? Blalock read a statement directed Craig. Anderson's since family saying that he wanted to make amends in any way he could and asked for their forgiveness. Judge Wing Wasn't convinced that blalock had shown any real remorse and fully expected that he dhillon himself with the racist groups once in prison. He urged Lilac to prove he sincerity by ray building his character before sentencing him to twenty years. I days. Later Ross who was not present on the night Craig was murdered but had participated in the other attacks was sentenced to ten years. In addition to the wrongful death suit filed by Craig's family to Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department prosecuted arrested Shutian case against the seven defendants. The full most prominent members of the group Darrell deadman John Ross. John Butler and William Montgomery were ordered to pay a collective amount of eight hundred and forty thousand dollars in restitution to craigslist state. The amount was based on an estimate of Craig's lost future earnings and was intended to ease the financial burden on his family. De Outcome of the families civil lawsuit he's done nine. On June thirty two, thousand fifteen on what would have been Craig's fifty second birthday Jackson CD Cancel Pasta High Crimes Ordinance requiring training and adequate resources to help local law enforcement accurately report and document high crimes committed in the city. The ordinance required that an annual report bay provided to the city cancel regarding the occurrence of hate crimes in. Jackson. that. Jackson's annual report stated there were thirty six hi groups operating in Mississippi. The Metro win was in an area of Jackson troubled by drug use and sex work, and there was speculation that the motel may have played a rolling Craig's attack. Metro. Win Zona Hovel Patel said that the media had unfairly characterized his business. He told the Jackson free press that he's motel provided a service to low income families who had trouble funding affordable housing in the area. The Metro wind was the first business coming off the interstate twenty, the highway used by Darrell deadman and William Montgomery to draw from Brandon t Jackson. The district attorney of Jackson theorized that Craig would have been the first vulnerable black person that deadman and group came across. It was purely an opportunistic attack and had Craig Ben Elsewhere the group would have targeted someone else. Val Patel denied rumors that he had sold the say say TV footage of Craig's Moda to say an that said that without it. There would have been no evidence that it was a racially motivated hate crime. Quite. I fully believe in the right course and there is not one penny that was involved other than the money that is killed me from a business point view. A local councilmen cold for the motel to be permanently closed, labeling it a public nuisance. Unable to recover from the negative publicity, the Metro in permanently closed in two thousand seventeen. On June thirty, two, thousand, twenty on what would have been. Craig's fifty seventh birthday Mississippi Pasta Law to remove the confederate emblem from the state flag. It was the last night in the US to retain the confederate emblem a popular amongst the white supremacists that represents the war to uphold slavery. At Commission is developing a new flag design that includes the phrase in God. We trust with Mississippi scheduled to vote on the new design in November two thousand twenty. Since he's husband's murder. James has worked to break the debut rooted bigotry that insulted the crime but teaching their adoptive son not to judge people based on the color of skin. Foam victim of Darrell deadman Jordan Richardson told the Jackson free press that hey, didn't want the actions of his former bully to bolster recycle stereotypes intentions in his community. Choir. Stereo. That any way you going Jackson. You better. Be Looking at the your Shoda and in brandon any you go you going to find a rednecks The only way that can happen his through a response of love for one community to the other. Of those convicted for the Jackson Rice attacks very few have spoken publicly about their crimes. John Ross was willing to provide a comment buzz fake news for price. Joseph Doc told the publication. Right now in society where in the most volatile times with racism, but I've changed its Bena different experience in prison. Most of the black guys in here know what mean for but I still love me. William Montgomery refused to take any personal responsibility for cry again descends death and finally felt sorry for himself. Quote. Lost my freedom family and everything else for a crime I didn't commit. As of July Two Thousand Twenty Dylan Bat La Joseph, Dominic Jonathan Gas Camp and Sarah Graves of served that time and bane released from prison while the others remained behind Baas. Darrell deadman is the only one of the ten people involved in the Jackson Rice attacks who never expected to Bay relased. When sentencing deadman in two thousand, fifteen judge cotton raves said. Hate comes in all shapes, sizes, colors, and from this case, we know it comes in different sexes and Daij is. A toxic mix of Alcohol Foolishness and Don adulterated hatred caused today's young people to resurrect the nightmarish specter of lynchings into Lynch mobs from the Mississippi Way long to forget. They proud they came ready to hurt. They used the dangerous weapons. They targeted the wake they recruited and encouraged others to join in the coordinated chaos and they boasted about the shameful activity. Like, a lynching. As young folk going out to Jeff Rica was lucky con of allow outing. That was funny to them. An excursion which culminated in the death of innocent African American James Craig Anderson. On June twenty, six, two, thousand eleven. The Fun, and did. What is so disturbing? So shocking so numbing is that these Hans were perpetrated by our children. Students who live among US educated in public schools in our providence Kademi. Students who played a football. Lined up on the same side of the scrimmage line with black mates. AVERAGE STUDENTS AND ON STUDENTS Kids who worked during school and in the summers kids who now had full time jobs and some of whom were. Raven. Unemployed. Some were pursuing higher education and the court believes Daiei H had dreams to Bashir. These children went from two parent homes and some of whom were the children of divorced parents and yes some even raised by a single parent. No doubt that y'all had a loving parents and loving families. What could transform these young adults into the violent creatures? They're big dumb saw. It was nothing the victims did. They were not championing any cause political social economic. Nothing that I did. Not, a wolf whistle not supposed to crime. Nothing, day did.

James Surprise Craig Darrell deadman Saul Jackson Craig Anderson deadman murder Mississippi James Craig James Craig Anderson fords Sarah Graves Jackson John Ross Darrell deadman shelby US FBI Craig Sister Barbara Shelby Richards Jape
The Supreme Court | The Cherokee Cases | 2

American History Tellers

46:28 min | 9 months ago

The Supreme Court | The Cherokee Cases | 2

"Maginness eighteen twenty nine sweltering late August. Day In new Toyota capital of the Cherokee nation. You're setting type for the newest issue of the Cherokee Phoenix the only newspaper in America with stories in both English and Cherokee. Also, the only newspaper advocating for Cherokee land rights. Glancing out the window. The whole town of New Jota is laid out in front of you stores. A city hall houses a bustling town of Cherokee people, but the governor of Georgia would like nothing more than to see it demolished to become instead home for white settlers. It's enough to make your blood boil. As you look up from your typesetting, you see a man on a horse approaching fast clip. It's your boss, the editor of the Phoenix Elias. Buddha no. He rushes into the office number to your desk How much of that front page do you have set on just about done while we'll have to clear some space towards the top they found gold. Nearly, drop the Netherlanders in your hands on the floor gold where Ward Creek rumors are flying around like wildfire land prices are doubling people jumping all over themselves get in and pan. Gold turning up on Cherokee land should be wonderful news, but you both know the reality is anything but white settlers in their politicians have been ratcheting up a fight against your people for nearly thirty years. Now, the discovery of gold will only make them hungrier for your land chief Robert and the counselor going to have to address this. He means the Cherokee National Council, the governing body of the Cherokee Nation Council building is right down the road. What will the council be able to do? I'm not sure but what I do know is that the Cherokee have rights in the United States, we signed treaties to ensure our sovereignty. US past honor them even against one of its own states. So if we have to go to Washington to press our case, then that's what we're going to have to do. Nothing good has come from the American government not their treaties not their politicians ally suddenly turns on his face hot with anger. What would you do that? Start a war against the entire state of Georgia? No. Of course not we don't have the numbers. We don't have the military we would lose exactly. So when your backs against the wall, what you do you negotiate. There's no arguing with Elias when he gets like this. So you turn away looking back out the window Elias has always had faith in the American government. You've never been sure why all they've done is break their promises that he's right but people don't have many options but negotiations take trust and faith you just hope that allies booed knows faith isn't as placed. American tellers sponsored by trailblazers have you ever wondered how some industries developed into what they are today? How did NETFLIX's overtake the home video market? How did we move towards the privatization of space travel bestselling author and veteran journalists were is it takes you on a journey through the INS and outs of the disruptions that shaped entire industries in trailblazers with Walter Isaacson. A podcast from Dell Technologies get the full history of everything from agriculture to fashion including the untold stories from key players, industry experts, and academics. In the upcoming season, Walter will explore the evolution of the workplace from cubicles to open offices to remote work and possibly back to cubicles again because of Covid nineteen here. About the emergence of eastport with input from Philadelphia, fusion overwatch player Funny Astro entering. It's fifth season. Trailblazers is a history buffs gold mine listened to the first four seasons of trailblazers with Walter. Isaacson now anywhere you get your podcast. Moore more about the show at Dell technologies dot com slash trailblazers American, history tellers sponsored by the capital one Walmart rewards card with the capital one Walmart rewards card. You'll earn unlimited five percent back at Walmart Online. You'll also earn two percent in Walmart stores at restaurants and on travel and one percent everywhere else when you want all that, you need the capital one Walmart rewards card. What's in your wallet turned and exclusions apply capital one NA. From wondering I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American history tellers our history your story. In the first three decades of the eighteen hundreds, the United States expanded rapidly the population tripled from five to fifteen million and the nation's territory kept pace growing threefold with the purchase of the Louisiana territory and the acquisition of Florida construction of canals, turnpikes, and railroads improved transportation, and spurred the economy. But for native Americans in the East, all this growth threatened their very existence with millions of acres of prime farmland and forests. The Cherokee nation found their rights slowly being eroded by the neighboring state of Georgia to make matters worse, the federal government and the president refused to intervene. But the Cherokee had one last option pursuing case against the state of Georgia in federal court historically, legal trees had outlined the relationship between the Cherokee and the United States but even these legally binding agreements were open to different interpretations. Cherokee leaders would stand their ground in the only branch of government left to them the Supreme Court in two separate cases, Cherokee nation versus Georgia, and Worcester versus Georgia. The court would render decisions that would determine the future of an entire civilization. This episode to the Cherokee cases. By the late eighteen, twenty's. Rush, in western Georgia was the latest development to put pressure on the Cherokee People White Southerners were hungry not just for gold, but the promise of Western expansion. There was money to be made in land speculation and the Cherokee were some the last tribe standing in the way. Up. and down the east coast of North America white settlers first French and Spanish. Than English had made deals with native tribes they traded with them established communities and learn how to survive the harsh winters as the settlers grew in number. They intensified their fighting with the neighboring tribes forcing native Americans. Further into the western portion of the North American continent, all the while white settlers called native Americans savages, and characterize them as primitive creating myth of racial inferiority that laid the groundwork for white aggression. By the nineteenth century, white businessmen and landowners in the United States looked to the government to help drive out tribal communities and the government obliged by offering cash buyouts to native tribes would relocate and applying pressure to those who remained. But in the state of Georgia. The Cherokee were not leaving fast enough for the settlers and the states politicians were doing their best to speed things along. For young Cherokee man named Elias Buono. His twenty six years had been spent an anticipation of a confrontation like this Putin O- lived with his wife and children in the town of new showed the capital of the Cherokee nation. Their residents walked wide streets and slapped and large frame houses. They ran farms and plantations some of them maintained by enslaved. Labor, at the center of town stood a courthouse and a two story council building with glass windows and brick chimneys. The new tribal government, the Cherokee National Council met in this building, and from there, it oversaw territory the covered a vast swath of land stretching up into the southern Appalachian Mountains. The majority of Cherokee around seventeen thousand people still lived in other mountain towns and villages across one hundred, fifty miles of trails. These settlements were more remote, more inaccessible and more traditional women, how powerful leadership roles and communities were matrilineal. Though tribal law and social behavior had once differed from place to place. Now, the central council a new Toyota. Helped settle disputes and kept up lines of communication within the Cherokee community. Just, like new a charter allies Buddha No. Himself was symbolic of the changes Cherokee, people had undergone in the nineteenth century. Born in eighteen. Oh, to to a prominent mixed race family he'd been christened gala Geena wate and nicknamed buck his father was Cherokee and his mother had European and Cherokee heritage like his cousins and others in the tribe with high social standing Bach was sent north to be educated to a Christian missionary school in Cornwall Connecticut. Their buck met an aging former congressman named Elias Bhutto the elder Buddha no took an interest in buck an urge the young. Cherokee. To adopt his name Bach accepted and for the rest of his life was known as Elias Cornelius Buddha. No. Returning to new a photo in his early twenties Budanov found a tribal leadership that was changing into a national council. Political leaders were being chosen and constitution was about to be formed. The Cherokee were forming their own modern independent government. A new written language or celebrity had been recently developed by a Cherokee linguist named sequoia for the first time. The Cherokee could record their spoken words on paper Buddha no work to get this new celebrate set into typeface but the tribes leaders decided it wasn't enough to just develop a written language. The government needed a way to communicate with a tribal community and the outside world in other words, they needed a newspaper. The tribal council agreed and sent Bruno out with other men, his age men like his cousin, John Rich and his brother stand wate. They would set off into the northeastern states to raise money for the newspaper and to promote the cause of Cherokee sovereignty. Young eager and well-spoken Lionel was about to go on tour. Imagine this eighteen twenty six in the city of Philadelphia you're in the vast reception hall next door to the First Presbyterian church, your member of the American. Board. Of Commissioners of foreign missions a group that has helped spur the cause of native rights in the United. States. You've just attended a lecture from a young Cherokee named Elias Budanov Akali Ligi through the crowd wanting to meet the guest of honor. You cross throngs of people and our lead over to a small group of Cherokee. Buna looked young when you saw him speak but he looks even younger this close Mr Buddha. No, it's a pleasure to meet you and you sir. It's a pleasure to meet anyone who is interested in the cause of. Sovereignty. Buddha no meets your eye with an unwavering gaze. In close a white starched collar standing stiff around his neck nearby you see other men like him members of the Cherokee delegation he followed through glance. Those are my friends Mr Waddy Mr. Ridge Mr Hicks. They're also young. Group of Revolutionary Children still their ideas are just as radical as the abolitionists you like their clock. So Mr, Bruno did they help you write your speech? No I wrote that myself. But they've helped me formulate those ideas Mr Bruno in your speech you talked of a successful assimilation with white culture. I've leaned my words were I'm an Indian my kindred are Indians my father is sleeping in the grave are Indians but I am not as my father's were broader means and nobler influences have fallen over me. Nobler influences. Some might say you're calling your own tribesmen primitive they would be wrong. That is exactly what I'm finding against. The Cherokee people are evolving improving ourselves just as whites or evolving, improve it. And there's no reason why these evolutions can't happen together. But what about members of your tribe who aren't here do they agree with these ideas they would agree that we need to strengthen our ties to the American government. That when you negotiate you WanNa do so from the best possible position. Sound Very. Politic, or are you going to run for Congress allies laughs? For which sees Georgia Tennessee. They both hate us they hate our independence, they hate our sovereignty. Now, it's up to the United States to formally recognize our independence. No, catches someone else's. But finishes his thought. Then wants the chair here independent a one percent. You got to say you were impressed with boy. You move along through the crowd and head for the donation box. It's clear to anyone who reads a paper that an ill wind is blowing for these poor people. Chara imagine what it's like to have your freedom stripped away I bit but you can try and you can also make your money to a little extra work as well. In his speech, which he published entitled an address to the whites allies Buddha no called out the racism inherent in native removal policies. He also articulated a vision of a historical timeline in which Cherokee people were not stuck in the past not primitive as their detractors claim but moving forward. Buddha, no had a deep love for his people, but he was also strongly influenced by his Christian missionary education and notions of racial hierarchy and progression. The Cherokee were surrounded by country with a strong military and history of warfare with native people they were under tremendous pressure to prove that they were civilized that they could live up to the American ideals of society. So for Elias Buono it was vital that the Cherokee show they were evolving and reinventing themselves in meaningful ways. Buddha no speaking tour took him up and down the East Coast to Charleston. Boston and Philadelphia. He was able to raise the fifteen hundred dollars. A took to purchase a printing press and have it installed in a new show to office. The first issue the Cherokee Phoenix debuted in February eighteen, twenty eight Budanov was its editor and subscription spread to all the cities he had visited. The Phoenix fast became a weekly chronicle of Cherokee self determination and the nation struggles against the state of Georgia and the US Congress. Meanwhile, Cherokee leaders had finished formalizing a style of government they felt would make negotiations with the US federal government more authoritative. By, eighteen twenty seven, the Cherokee had declared themselves a constitutional republic committee rule was replaced by National Council which oversaw legislative body and a court system. They elected John Ross to be their principal chief at thirty eight years old at already been negotiating with leaders in Washington for more than ten years, he'd rejected previous offers of settlement money for relocation. A former soldier Ross was now committed to nonviolence and he worked to placate the more hawkish members of his council. Like Elias Buddha John Ross had to bridge both the old and new definitions what it meant to be a Cherokee Ross had fought alongside white settlers against the French during the war of eighteen twelve, he operated a plantation run by slave labor and he'd made enough money to build several houses in an area Cherokee territory that he'd named Ross's landing prosperous educated, and politically connected Ross envision a future for his people living right alongside their white neighbors in Tennessee and Georgia. Still Chief Ross made sure the tribe held fast to core chair, he values which are written into their new constitution foremost amongst these was that Cherokee land was not owned by any one person but common property to the entire nation over decades there people had ceded vast tracts of land to the US federal government. Now, there would be no more land for sale at all. Ross, took a delegation party through the northeast, handing out copies of the Cherokee Phoenix and trying to sway progressive settlers in their favor. The Cherokee became a cost lab among progressive churches and publications. But then in eighteen, twenty, eight, the election of Andrew Jackson to the US presidency sent a shockwave through the progressive and Cherokee. Communities Jackson was the first candidate of the newly formed Democratic Party. He won election on a platform that advocated the removal of native people from their lands and the continuation of slavery in the south. The new president announced to Congress his immediate intention to remove all native peoples to the West. This came as no surprise to anyone who'd followed Jackson's career battling native tribes during the war of eighteen twelve or the land deals he'd made after the war helping sell forty, five, thousand acres, of Concord, Native Terry in Tennessee to white settlers. Emboldened by Jackson's election and the discovery of gold on. Cherokee land legislators in the state of Georgia quickly sought to try and break the Cherokee nation apart i. they passed a resolution declaring land and title rights to ten million acres. Of Cherokee territory the measure nullified. Laws and customs and made all white people on Cherokee land subject to Georgia law. It also declared the Cherokee to be second class citizens lacking the rights of whites including the right to testify against white people in court. Then Georgia authorized a volunteer militia called the Georgia Guard under the guise of a peacekeeping force, the guard patrol, Cherokee land, and physically intimidated Cherokee people. These strategies aim to force the Cherokee to relocate West Georgia new. The Federal Government had set lands aside and Oklahoma for several times some tribes had already relocated. George hope that perhaps with enough force, the Cherokee would join them. Facing these developments chief John Ross advised the National Council not to panic. He argued that the Cherokee nation possessed valid trees for their land with the United States government. Georgia was only one St. Hold fast to the place you were raised Ross told the council in the winter of eighteen twenty eight. If you all unite together and be of one mind, there is no danger of our rights being taken away from us. Ross felt it was long pastime for the US federal government to help the Cherokee people or at the least interested against aggressive states like Georgia. He had faith in the American system and its promises. He had a plan force the government's hand he was going to use white settlers tactics against them. He was going to hire a lawyer. American, his retailers is sponsored by Amazon Alexa set a timer for fifty four seconds fifty four seconds starting. 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But Hurry this offer ends October thirty first after which turn my jack-o-lanterns off for a whole `nother year Amazon dot com slash tellers. American history tellers is sponsored by Monday dot Com. If you listen to this podcast all the way through the credits and you should I tell a joke at the end of every episode then you'll know that it takes a lot of people to make this show writers, researchers, producers, the comedy writers who provide me with my end of show jokes. Teams much bigger than me and there's a lot of room for error. The key is communication. Monday dot COM is an easy to use flexible and visual teamwork platform beautifully designed to manage any team organization or process online. You can improve coordination between teams of any size in any industry anywhere that work is done through fashion, which is everywhere plan manage and track everything. Your team is working on with scores of integrations with tools you or to use like g mail or dropbox. Better by being in one centralized place visible to everyone who needs to see it. So if you want your team to be more effective than ever visit Monday dot Com for your free two week trial. Eighteen twenty nine the Cherokee face threats on multiple fronts, a hostile governor Georgia and aggressive US president in. Andrew Jackson an congress full of members who wanted the Cherokee gone from the eastern seaboard. Chief John Ross, and the Cherokee National Council could feel the door closing upon them. Their options appear to be just to either relocate West or stay on their land and submit to the punishment of Georgia state. Law. But Ross and his allies saw a third option by taking their case for land ownership and sovereignty to the US. Supreme Court, perhaps a ruling woodland in their favor. To do this, they engaged the services of a lawyer named. William. WIRT wirt had argued many cases before the Supreme Court over the years and with his shock bushy hair, he was a familiar face amongst a small circle of nationally prominent lawyers. But also work had to qualities that recommended him to the Cherokee people. I, he was sympathetic to their cost and second President Jackson had just forced him to resign a twelve year post as attorney general to the United States. were, had little doubt as to his new clients claims of sovereignty he and his team began pouring over previous cases, involving property and treaties. For centuries, the Cherokee people had lived across the vast land surrounding the southern Appalachian Mountain Range. Spanish explorers wrote of encountering them in the fifteen hundreds more than one hundred years later, French and English settlers had begun to trade with him by the mid seventeen hundreds the chair, he reforming military alliances with British. But with the strength of the American colonies growing, this would be the wrong side choose. After the American Revolutionary War, the Cherokee signed a peace treaty with a newly independent colonies permitting the Cherokee to retain their land in Georgia and two more treaties. The United States promised it would protect Cherokee land and guarantee its boundaries congress ratified these agreements in seventeen ninety three effectively sealing them with a stamp of the US federal government. These assurances were further backed by the US Constitution which called treaties, the Supreme Law of the land. So William were thought he had his case and he had it in the government's own handwriting. But the state of Georgia had its own federally backed claims to Cherokee Land. In eighteen O to just nine years after Congress, ratified the Cherokee Agreements Georgia cut a deal with the US government giving up some of its landholdings in exchange for a promise under the terms of the deal the federal government gained Georgia territory that would become the future states of Alabama and Mississippi. In return the federal government promised to help Georgia acquire all native territory from the Cherokee and other tribes as soon as they can be peaceably obtained upon reasonable. It was this tension that was the heart of the matter. The US government had made a deal with a state that directly contradicted a previous deal it had made with the Cherokee nation. From his office in Baltimore Worth wrote a backchannel letter to chief. Justice John Marshall laying out the ground for the case he'd like to bring on behalf of the Cherokee people were did not yet have a plaintiff, but he had the basic idea of his strategy through a friend and intermediary ask Marshall whether he'd given unofficial opinion on the prospects of such a case. But before Marshall could reply the US Congress passed legislation called the Indian removal act it was a formal declaration of the government's intention to take the lands of native tribes and move those tribes west of the Mississippi River written in the language of a business deal, he gave the president broad powers to push native residents off their land and create new enforceable boundaries for their lands in the West. The bill was a culmination of President Jackson's harsh policies and he heard Lee signed it on May twentieth eighteen thirty. Soon after chief justice, Marshall responded in a letter to William wirt I have followed the debate in Congress with deep interest and have wished most sincerely the both executive and legislative departments had thought differently on the subject. Chief. Justice, morsels latter did not offer any advice about words legal strategy, but he implied that if the core did hear such a case, Marshall sympathies would lie with Cherokee. Then in the fall of eighteen thirty, a Cherokee man named George corn. Tassell was charged with the murder of another Cherokee man in Cherokee territory tassels trial and conviction took place in Gainesville county Georgia outside the jurisdiction of the Cherokee. Nation. So here was the kind of plaintiff that William Work and the Cherokee had been looking for were to Po Tassell conviction directly to the Supreme Court on the grounds that Georgia had no standing to convict a member of the Cherokee nation. Chief Justice Marshall accepted the appeal and ordered Georgia to show cause but ignoring this order Georgia pushed forward with tassels execution and he was hanged in Gainesville Town Square on Christmas Eve. William Word then sued the state directly the case Cherokee nation versus Georgia appeared before the Supreme Court in March eighteen thirty one only three months later arguing before the nine justices were trying to prove that as a foreign nation the Cherokee had the right to sue the state of Georgia and that the Supreme Court had the power to grant an injunction against the state's anti native laws. Were reason that the courts should and could defend Cherokee rights to both their land and their independent government Georgia did not bother to send council to represent the state. So wirt argued unopposed. Shirley were felt this would be the moment in which Cherokee sovereignty could be ruled upon. But it wasn't in his opinion Marshall wrote that the chair he did not technically constitute a foreign nation inventing a new legal status for them. Marshall, call the Cherokee a domestic dependent nation in a seven to two ruling. He concluded that the court had no jurisdiction to make a decision. It was a devastating blow for the Cherokee. What a glimmer of hope remained in his opinion marshal speculated that the question of right to Cherokee lands might perhaps be decided by the court in a proper case with proper parties. Much, like marshals letter to William. Word, this was an implied imitation one that read try again, find different kind of case. and very soon after a tense showdown in Georgia, would provide an opportunity to do just that. Maginness eighteen, thirty, one, one of those insufferably hot days that makes you curse the state of Georgia for simply existing growing up. You heard stories about how the state used to be a penal colony, a debtor's prison for misfits and men who stowed away on the mayflower. You imagine prisoners breaking rocks in the hot sun strangely made you shiver that would never be you. You would never find yourself on the wrong side of the law. And here you are a member of the George Guard militia sweating and swatting at flies with a dozen other men listening to a Cherokee congregation singing the altar call I gotTa Tell You I've never had to arrest preacher before. You glance over at Lonnie a fellow guardsman he thinks he's a wit, but he knows when to keep his mouth shut. That's not the preacher were arresting. Lonnie frowns but this Wester Fella I read he's a preacher. Now he's not a preacher he's a missionary. Lonnie look slightly confused but this Worcester Fella, he's a missionary without his white man's license or or whatever. State of Georgia has white men need a license to live on Cherokee land and Worcester didn't get his while I think we stand to bring a couple of those Cherokee to jail along with him. Whoever is we're not here to arrest any Turkey people and why not they're here illegal to anything keep a lid on it Lonnie. Just ahead, your captain looks restless he keeps glancing around you don't blame him feel strange to be standing here near a church in a clearing by the woods waiting for someone else's church to let out to then begin unrest. As a service finishes, the congregants began to slowly exit the building. They're all Cherokee wearing clothes just like you'd wear to a Sunday Service One by one, they stop in their tracks. Gets to where the people inside can't come out because the doorways blocked they look scared and you understand why? A dozen armed men outside their church. Captain calls out to them. We're here for Samuel, Worcester. We have a warrant for his arrest under orders from the state of Georgia. And that's when you see him shaggy dark hair slicked back like he's one of them. You. Guess that away he is one of them. You move forward holding the shackles out. So whispered can see them intern. He holds out his wrists. Saying nothing like he knew coming. You fasten his wrists and lead him towards the way for a split second. You wonder if the Lord really is on this man's side. But it isn't your place guess about such things God's law and man's law are two different things. All, you have to use force the latter. Samuel Worcester had known something like this was coming just three months before Georgia passed a law prohibiting white men from residing in the Cherokee territory without first obtaining a license the thirty three old wooster had no license and did not seek or apply for one. He'd already lived in new charter with his wife and family for six years. Worcester was a vocal advocate for Cherokee independece. He'd helped Elias Buddha create the Cherokee Phoenix newspaper, and as the postmaster of Newest Shota was made sure the copies were sent to cities all over the northeast. Worcester. Along with a laser, Butler and seven other missionaries deliberately courted arrest to help bring the question of Cherokee independence before the Supreme Court. Once Georgia Governor Wilson Lumpkin realized this he had the men set free lumpkin was a newly elected governor, but he followed the same mandate as his predecessors pressured the Cherokee by all means available. But once lung can release them from Jail Samuel Worcester and allies Butler still refuse to leave Cherokee land and raged governor Lumpkin had worcester removed from his position as postmaster and arrested again. For good measure he also rearrested Butler. The two missionaries were sentenced to four years of hard labor in a Georgia jail? The rearrest of the two missionaries was a strategic mistake for Lumpkin. Here it lasts was the case that William weren't, and the Cherokee had been waiting for like he had with Corn Tassell were took over representation for the Worcester case and filed a notice to appear in the supreme. Court? Unwittingly. Governor Lumpkin had backed himself into a corner unlike tassell his two prisoners were white. He couldn't execute them just to get them out of the way, but he couldn't release them from jail either for Lumpkin and his Georgia constituents. This was a matter of states rights above all else. But for Word Worcester in the Cherokee, this case was about defending the right to exist as they had for generations on the Northern American continent. They were going to defend that right in the highest court in the nation, even taking on the state of Georgia and the president. Isn't it fantastic just all inspiring that inside of you at the very center of every one of the cells that makes up your body is a small piece of the entire history of humanity. That goes back generation after generation after generation generation to you and me and everyone on the planet are close in related. But what was the journey from then to now and what is your place in it trace your part of the story with ancestry and ancestry DNA. An ancestry. DNA test tells you where your ancestors are from and ancestries billions of records and millions of family trees lets you discover their personal stories you could find a famous relative or perhaps a photo of. Your great grandmother as a little girl then trace the paths of your recent ancestors and learn how and why your family move from place to place around the world. It's easy to start making discoveries with ancestry, grab an ancestry DNA kit and start a free trial to amplify your discoveries with ancestries. Billions of records start exploring your family story today had to ancestry dot com slash tellers to get your ancestry DNA kit and start your free trial. That's ancestry dot com slash tellers. Over, three days in February eighteen, thirty to the Supreme Court heard arguments in the case of wister versus Georgia with the fate of the Cherokee nation on the line. Once again, Georgia refused to appear but the pressure surrounding the case where even more intense than those the previous year. The whole country was watching everyone had an opinion, the pro Jackson Democrats and their boosters cried foul to the whole proceedings. State matters should be handled in the state. They argued not by federal usurpation as Georgia Governor Lumpkin put. Meanwhile Cherokee chief John Ross went on tour of the northeast pressing for his tribes, rights and encouraging congressional action in new charter. Fresh issues of the Cherokee Phoenix flew off Elias Buddha printing press. In Washington William worked and his Co. counsel presented their argument to the Supreme Court on the broadest possible grants just as in the Korn Tassell appeal word argued that Georgia did not have the legal authority to arrest someone on Cherokee land. He also contended that the Supreme Court had the power to issue a writ of error forcing the release of Samuel. Worcester Analyzer Butler from prison. In less than two weeks chief justice, John Marshall. Delivered the court's opinion. It was a powerful rebuke to Georgia. Marsa. So wrote, the Cherokee nation is a distinct community occupying own territory in which the laws of Georgia can have no force and which the citizens of Georgia have no right to enter. But with the assent of the Cherokee themselves, the act of the state of Georgia under which the plaintiff was in error prosecuted is consequently void. Marsh continued that Worcester had been arrested while under the guardianship of treaties guaranteeing the country in which he resided and that wister was convicted under a law repugnant to the constitution. The court ruled in favor not just a western Butler but Cherokee independence itself in a slight modification from its ruling the year before the court ruled that the Cherokee, a separate political entity could not be regulated by any individual state. Only the federal government had the authority to make trees and it's treaties with Cherokee nation had to be respected going even further. The Supreme Court. Declared all Georgia's laws in regards to native people were unconstitutional. News of the decision was greeted with feasts and dances shorter in Washington and enthusiastic Cherokee delegation already in town for the ruling was invited to meet with Associate Supreme Court Justice John McLean. The clean had ruled in the Cherokees Favor. But he told the delegation to pass on a warning chief John Ross do not expect this decision to change anything. mcleans fellow associate. Justice Joseph story much in a letter to his wife following the Worcester decision. He wrote Georgia is full of anger and violence. Probably she will resist the execution of judgment and if she does I, do not believe the president will interfere. It is one thing for the Supreme Court to rule in favor of the charity was another thing entirely for the ruling to be enforced. Worcester and Butler the plaintiffs still sat in a Georgia jail and there was no way the governor Lumpkin would release them. If he did it was possible that the whole architecture of his states Cherokee policies would collapse in addition President Jackson support was emphatic. It was clear that would be no action from Washington forcing the state to comply. So the state of Georgia did nothing, it refuse even to publicly record its refusal in the minutes of its legislative sessions. Governor Lumpkin made sure nothing was put in writing. Another state lawmaker promised that the Supreme Court Judgment would be resisted with George and promptitude and spirit. It would never be accepted until Georgia was made a howling wilderness. Throughout all of this worcester and Butler continued to sit in jail the language there through the summer of eighteen, thirty two and through Andrew Jackson's re election that November they were finally set free in the spring of eighteen thirty three when it became politically expedient for governor. Lumpkin to do so. The two missionaries had helped prove legal case for Cherokee independence the supreme court before the Cherokee nation, it looked increasingly like nothing had been accomplished. Still, chief Ross would not give up he and members of the national. Council continued to lobby the US Congress and to bring circuit court cases against state laws in Alabama and Tennessee undaunted Ross continued to believe in the US court system to trust that there would be a way to legally protect his nation and his land, but some members of his nation didn't feel the same way. Elias Buddha no had been on tour raising funds for his newspaper. When he heard about the Supreme Court decision in Worcester Be Georgia after realizing that the decision would not be enforced. Budanov shows his priorities. His concern was no longer with Cherokee sovereignty but with preserving the culture of Cherokee people no matter where they lived removal was inevitable. He felt and fighting it was useless. So Buddha no began to pen articles in the Cherokee Phoenix to make his case these new article suggested that if a new treaty with the US government could be signed the Cherokee could at least secure more money and better terms in exchange for giving up their land. These views aligned with a small faction of the Cherokee Council that call themselves the Treaty Party. But chief John Ross and the majority of the council refused any talk of compromise or negotiation to negotiate any type of removal policy, which surely end in disaster they thought the Cherokee Council condemned the pro treaty newspaper articles and Buddha no soon resigned his position as the paper's editor. The Phoenix contained publish with chief Ross's cousin taking over the editorship and as it had from the start, the paper continued to make the case for Cherokee independence. Hopes for that 'cause dimmed over the next two years as the Cherokee Council grew bitterly divided over just how to negotiate if at all with the US government. The Cherokee people and their hopes for retaining their land in Georgia running out of time. Imagine imagining June eighteen, thirty four, you're standing inside the office of the Cherokee Phoenix. Or what used to be the Cherokee Phoenix metal printing press sits in the corner gathering dust. Across, the room your husband is attempting to fit one more back issue the newspaper into a large Satchel. He's run this paper for two years since Elias Bugno resigned. But now the council doesn't have the funds to print anymore hair can I give you a hand? I don't need a hand a guy. It's clear. The SATCHEL will not hold one more piece of anything. But he has more faith than you. Continue to force the last copy inside until he rips it. Why don't you just sit down take a breath Your husband doesn't scream. It doesn't. Yeah. He puts a Satchel down on the table and walks outside. So you heave the Satchel over your shoulder and follow now. You husband sits on a small set of stairs leading up to the office. The Phoenix done. We're not GONNA make it. On the newspaper isn't the only thing that's failing the town of new. To, they are still and quiet many people moved further into the hills and those who remain. All they see is confusion aggression from Georgia settlers. Your husband looks past you towards the Empty Town Square in the distance, you hear the sound of a hammer against would house going up what used to be the sound of Cherokee prosperity is now more than likely man from Georgia building a house on your people's land one ounce are we GONNA do? We'll do whatever the council says. Your husband's is narrow anger. So we stay because the council tells us to. What the council tells us to leave do we leave? We stayed only to watch everything die around US white family has already living my brother John's. Georgia's lotteries filling our land with settlers. We cannot find them. I really thought it omits. Delegations the white lawyer, those cases in Washington, we proved our independence we want in a white court, the highest court in their nation. We're still negotiating and we're still losing. You can't argue with this. The fact remains your people are being forced from your land. You make a vow then there to make sure that your family and your people survived this horror which fear that for the moment, things are going to get much much worse before they get any better if at all. You put your arm around your husband's shoulder and tried to comfort him for now. It's all you can do. The. Cherokee Phoenix, continued to publish until the summer of eighteen thirty four. During this time, the federal government and the state of Georgia began dismantling the town of New Itch Ota Cherokee were evicted from their properties. A land lottery was established to put white families into the empty homes and businesses those Cherokee who remained held onto their land and property as long as they could. In eighteen thirty, five Elias Buddha. No and members of the Treaty Party began secretly negotiating with delegates sent from Washington led by John Ridge Cherokee cousin of Dino's these talks were kept from the rest of the tribe and even chief John Ross under Cherokee, laws of treason members of the treaty party could be charged as traitors. In December of eighteen thirty five this Treaty Party signed an agreement with the US government in alliance. Buddha knows new show too home twenty signatures was all took to see the entirety of Cherokee territory in exchange they received five million dollars and vague assurances that the government would provide a school fund and Stock. Investments for the nation. Nevertheless these twenty signatures supposedly representing approximately seventeen thousand Cherokee were sent hastily to Washington despite the protests of chief. John Ross and the entirety of the Cherokee National Council who maintained the Treaty Party had no authority to negotiate on behalf the tribe. The US Senate approved the Treaty of new charter by a single vote. The treaty required the removal of all eastern Cherokee to the West within two years. But with nearly all of the Cherokee people resisting the US military was required to force their removal to the West along with members of the seminal choctaw chickasaw and Muskogee tribes, thousands of Cherokee families tracked through harsh weather and forbidding conditions. Some four thousand Cherokee nearly a quarter of their total population died along the way including the wife of chief John Ross who was buried in an unmarked grave. The journey was named noodle Sunni the trail of tears. Chief John Ross had gone to the Supreme Court in the hope that the American judiciary would protect the Cherokee nation's independence and despite a ruling in their favor, the Cherokee were still driven from their lands by the United States government. There was a limit to the power of the judiciary. Its decisions were only paper and its power would come from the commitment of society to follow the rule of law. Questions about federal. Authority over individual states would continue to appear before the court for years to come. But soon, a civil war would engulf the nation and the Supreme Court would have a central role in determining who would be considered a full citizen and who would be excluded. On the next episode of American history tellers and early civil rights group in new, Orleans seeks to challenge a new segregation long what begins with one man refusing to leave a train car will result in a Supreme Court case with lasting constitutional repercussions from wondering this episode to of Supreme Court landmarks can history tellers if you like our show, please give us a five star rating and review and we should tell your friends. I also have two other podcasting line American scandal in American elections wiki game subscribe on Apple podcasts spotify the wondering APP or wherever you're listening right now join wondering plus in the wondering to listen at free, you'll also find some links and offers from sponsors. In the episode notes supporting, them helps us keep offering our shows for free. Another way you can support the show is by filling out a small survey of wondering dot com slash survey. You can also find us an me on twitter and facebook follow the show at eight h tellers I'm at Lindsey. Graham. Thank you for more information on Cherokee removal and the Supreme Court. We recommend the chair he cases by Norgren American history tellers hosted edited and produced by me Lindsey Graham for airship audio editing by molly balk sound design by Derek Barron's this episode is written by George Docker edited by Maria our executive losers are jenny lower, Beckmann, and Marshall looting created a Hernan Lopez for wondering. What would you do? If something happened that changed your life forever Something that called into question everything you've ever known I've felt her hand move my hair off the side of my neck and in one swift motion she flipped my throat. I'm witnesses. I have a PhD in social psychology and a single question has fascinated me for over a decade. What happens when we come face to face with the unknown and are plunged into a completely new reality? I could feel these entities definitely wasn't human wrapped around my torso from behind. 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Cherokee Cherokee Land Georgia Cherokee National Council United States Cherokee Phoenix Supreme Court American government Elias Buddha Cherokee Cherokee Nation Council Cherokee Ross president Cherokee community Congress John Ross Cherokee Cherokee Phoenix newspaper President Jackson Worcester
9/28/20 - The Tony & Mo Football Show

Mo Egger

1:52:51 hr | 10 months ago

9/28/20 - The Tony & Mo Football Show

"Hi I'M CARLA? You might remember me from top chef or Netflix's crazy delicious. My life has been nothing short of a series of twists and turns, but through the successes hand the adversity I always lean into my personal motto. Say Yes to everything life throws your way. In my new podcast Sega's with Carla Hall I'm sitting down with some of the most inspiring celebrity personalities as we explore their challenges and how they got to their. Yes. In the first episode out chat with Kristen. Bell about everything from how she faces a working mom in Hollywood in the public eye to the liberation. We can feel when we just admit that sometimes we just don't know and there's even more great moments to come with interviews with Billy Porter, Martha Stewart Gretchen Rubin, and many more subscribed to say, yes with Carla Hall on Apple Podcasts spotify or listen at free on the wondering APP. Wondering. Feel the story the. Cincinnati bengals play here. This facebook bet rivers sportsbook Tony Football, show live from twin peaks in Westchester brought to you in part by on her technologies visit encore. Dante Miami Valley Gaming get ready to get lucky at Miami Valley Gaming Stone Statements Bring your dream kitchen to light stone statements dot Com. An. Exco plumbing. Average Joe Goal Knicks, Go Superior Honda Superior Honda Store Dot Com simply, superior. Hard Rock. Casino. Get in the game or State Bank. You're at home with US Life Center changing lives through organ and tissue donation are carriers your global transportation provider visit. Dot Com today and flight bent rivers your hometown sportsbook visit bet rivers dot com. This is Cincinnati's ESPN. Fifteen thirty the official home of the bengals get out added the Bet River sportsbook Tonio football show live at twin peaks and less gesture we are brought to you by Bet rivers your hometown sportsbook bet rivers dot com Mo- Agar and Tony Pike were posted up at twin peaks and Westchester is a week three Twenty Football Sean Nice of you to make it. Yeah. Appreciate. Paul Tanner Junior for filling in for you last week as you you wait months and months and months and months for the football season to start, and then our football guy goes on vacation. I thought a week away would would be refreshing for this bengals team wiggle. I would be great for the team itself was wrong yes. They feed off a lot of my energy and. Refreshing view help yesterday maybe they do it is here on the north part of Cincinnati brutal outside but it's nice and dry inside the beer cold thriller code and this is an awesome place we are thrilled to be here so and easy to get to write off I seventy five the Union Center, Boulevard exit we're minutes away not even minutes seconds away from the exit. So come on out we are here toll six awesome place great Monday night football matchup tonight so you can watch the game here. Going outside they're going to fire doing outside and the reds are in the playoffs. Noon on Wednesday I can think of nothing better taking a long lunch maybe cutting out half day post up here a twin peaks watched the reds you're good to go. I'm GONNA, just not show up for since he three sixty. Wednesday. It'd be a wise decision for you. Eight eight. This is a great sports. Week. Eight Baseball Playoff Games on Wednesday four tomorrow in the American league great Monday night or tonight NBA finals begin the Stanley Cup final will be decided this week sufferers, Jaguars Sunday and a week to get ready for this massive showdown at Paul Brown stadium between the Jaguars and the Bengals who did not lose yesterday man tie yes. Took Marvin Lewis ninety-one Games to get his first high. So I could. Take that Zach Taylor nineteen. Yeah. There's there's a thousand different things and I guess we've got to start with the offensive line I'm looking at twitter. Here's Act Taylor's press conference is a happening right now and we'll have that will air that for you a little bit later on he is not made an announcement about who's GonNa play Right Guard for the bengals he doesn't matter here's here's the problem. We're getting. Ready for game four. We're not a quarter of the way through the season and already unto the point that well, you could play this guy at right guard billy price could come off the bench we can reinsert him Alex. Alex Redmond pull him off the practice squad. We give Fred Johnson a chance to play right tack. It doesn't matter right? That's the issue it. There's there's no magic potion we knew coming into this season. This offensive line was gonNA stink. We know three games in their even worse than we but that's the problem and and you know there are some teams like the bears today Trubisky foals like they're waiting on a quarterback we're waiting on a right guard decision going. To sleep doesn't matter but the, but here's the issue because you just admitted to knowing right now that going into the year, the offensive line was going to be an issue I knew they were going to be an issue. I've watched them the last four years. Yes. The issue becomes that in free agency. This organization said I'll we're good. The issue becomes in the draft for five rounds. This organization said, now we're good the issue becomes. The. Trade market or Williams who voted a captain for a team that went to the Super Bowl last year they traded a third round pick this year and a fifth last year to get Trent Williams they sat. In the trademark it to and they said, well, we're not doubling down with tripling quadrupling down the guys we have in this room. Well, those guys. Feel Bobby Fred Johnson. Billy price. I already know the answer to them and I'll give Joan Williams pass because it's his third game but the rest of the guys are, are we expecting by some magical potion for Bobby Hart? Overnight get better. He is what he is in the NFL already right. So you go through all of these different things and you say, okay, well. This is an organization that knew they were by all accounts. They knew right away they were taking Jonesboro number one. So they had ample time to say, okay what's the game plan here? So we can protect our investment what's the game plan so that the guy that's going to be a quarterback the next decade. is going to be safe and so far that game plan is on pace for seventy five sacks this year. That game plan of Philadelphia defense that had four combined sacks against the Washington the football team in Washington. And the rams who by the way the rams going into the season had the twenty fifth ranked offensive line. There had four combined eight yesterday. Jonesboro takes eighteen hits, and now we're left here wondering. Okay. Let's game four what. What what can they do because if joe blow goes to the course of a season like this one, he won't go to the course of a season because you saw a small taste yesterday of worst case scenario. WORST CASE SCENARIO IS GONNA come with the offensive line isn't you said to me yesterday you texted insert. Of the hit that knocked borough out of the game momentarily that that should be the poster that should be for the off season that should be the poster for the draft. But but this to me, here's the thing we knew coming into the season, the offensive line and was probably not going to be good. But that's that's not an isolated one year boy. You know what? They lost this player from last year's or this guy end of the season and he got hurt during the off season I see I see people that say all the time. You know in Cincinnati they don't care about the offensive line or they just. That's not a priority in Cincinnati. You know if it wasn't I would be more encouraged than I am right now if it's not a priority, all you have to do is decide let's make it a priority. The bengals have made it a priority. They used their first two picks in two thousand fifteen offensive lineman neither are here they use their first round draft choice in two thousand, eighteen. I'm sorry two, thousand, two, thousand eighteen billy price pool on an offensive lineman. They took the twelfth overall pick in that same draft and traded it for an offensive line right? They use their first round pick in two thousand, nineteen on an offensive lineman. Offense of lime initiation free. Agency they gave Bobby Hart, a contract extension. We knew that was a terrible move, but it's still something they did the troubling thing for me is they've actually been trying to fix the offensive line for years and they have failed to a degree that as bad as we thought, this line might be we couldn't have imagined before the season started. That's the troubling thing. So now the same people that have in in getting this offensive line rebuilt charge, they're in charge of of of filthiness missing moving forward. Yes. So that would be the next question then is at this point, what do you do to send a message? because. If I'm the organization. And we want to be here ten years and he's already getting hit like this. When did you want to send Joe Borough matches. Okay look. I. Know It's bad right now but this isn't gonNA fly going forward. We're going to get this fixed you have to send some type of message And if you can't send a message and if you can't do it based on the guys, you've draft and filled in, then you better have a coach. That knows how to scheme around bad offensive line. Because let's face it. We went into the year. We said the same thing well, that offensive line's going to be tested against. Bosa Ingram and then you've got myles Garrett. We didn't talk about the Eagles Defensive Front now because no one in the NFL is. So now we sit here today. Okay. So either someone has to be accountable and answer for these change has to be made or you've got to do a better job of scheming around bad offensive line and so far. There over to because the bengals haven't shown the ability to say we're making a change and surely Zach Taylor at this point hasn't shown that he can scheme around offense flying because they're scheming like he's got a top ten offensive line. Yep We're just we're just going to drop Joe Burrow back on a five step drop and let him hitting the pocket. When the Bengals are good, which obviously, it's been a while Duke Tobin gets a lot of credit right in fact that's all I hear is boy you know what do he doesn't have the title of GM but he's making all the moves you know nobody ever wants to credit the family nobody ever wants to credit owners which find Tobin has had his successes but boys as much as we punched away a Marvin Lewis and as much as we're going to wonder how much Zach Taylor needs to win this game on Sunday. Duke. Tobin has been in charge of a lot of things that have not worked out and you could say to me well, wait a minute moe. You're the guy that was thrilled about the money they spent on Free Agency on defense and I was and I still am glad they overhauled that side of the ball and I think some of the work they did pay dividends yesterday but Roku. But but on that, how much were you happy about the guys they got or how much were you happy that they spent the money? It's that. As. Anything. But a a Duke Tobin, selected defense was in a position where they had no choice but to overhaul it via free agency, which perhaps left them unable to fill holes left by players the Duke Tobin drafted and acquired on the offensive line. So all right now, the Meat Shield of Marvin Lewis has gone it's all about Duke Tobin when the Bengals are good. Oh, what a great personnel Guy Duke Tobin is fine. But not only did we have offensive lineman they drafted recently that either aren't helping or awful yesterday you add to it the fact that their first round pick from two thousand seventeen not even good enough to address yesterday that that's a major issue. You have the Bobby Hart decision, you have a series of things and this is why In the off season, it was okay. The offensive line might not be very good but don't get that fixed. They had to fix all this other stuff I Duke Tobin knows how to fix it offensive line. Are we sure no Jim Turner. Knows how to coach an offensive line? No, or are we sure Zach Taylor knows how to have whatever heels republic offensive line with this offensive line I don't think so no. So all that adds up to at some point Joe, borough going either. Hey I don't WanNa do this anymore and what's my escape or Joe Borough Cam play. Now we're watching Ryan Finley play quarterback, and the problem is is you don't want to create the environment like Joe Borough Right now after games I just WanNa say this bundled soundbites not watching Ryan Finley play quarterback no I, I was beautiful day yesterday Ryan Finley tried onto the field I said to my family. If this lasts more than three or four planes during a go do something else we're done watching Ryan. Finley play quarterback. It will and you can. You can be mad at compared like there's a reason David. Corden last in the NFL there's reason. Andrew. Luck retired early from the NFL. And there's a reason that quarterback play a long time in the NFL got to protect yourself. Yeah. In right now, Joe Borough, his post game yesterday said that he's got to be responsible for making one or two guys. Miss Three said is I gotta do better make one or two guys mess and that's not your job. Your job is to read the defense going on Downfield in what's happening so Again it is. It's negligent Turner can't do it to tobin can do it right now Zach Taylor can't do right now. So the answer becomes where do you go from here because? We're three games into the season. And we have more questions already than we even could imagine we had and none of those questions around you'll borough. No, that's the crazy thing. Three Games in. Let's see what Joe Borough is. Joe Exceeded. Every expectation is I'm smitten with jober. Yes. Two main point everyone that watches him is not just sort of bengals level, but on a national level. But when you watch what's around him, you understand why leading up to the draft everyone was picking apart the bengals and the organization. Why? Because of how these first three weeks of played out this team is this team is good enough on paper to be two and one easily right now. This team on paper going into yesterday without a doubt head a better man for man roster. I said on twitter after the game and it was to illustrate that I thought every other area on the team was fine. The defense was not infallible, but they were good enough thought for the most part to win the game. We'll talk about Lou Anna remote getting to at the end of the first half joe borough was fantastic their skill guys minus a handful dudes. Still Guys did enough to win the football game. That team is a whole is being saddled by an offensive line, which is inept. And this was supposed to be a season where okay. Well, you know what by the end of it you're gonNA feel good about a handful of pieces on the offensive line that all you're going to have to do this coming off season, go and get this guy going address this position. I'm now looking at what feels like a two three year project to get the offensive line to what it wasn't two thousand fifteen that because the thing I don't want an okay offensively right I want a great offense. But what's the issue with that is that we circled right now because of what sense of urgency because of a rookie quarterback on a rookie correctly deal We have since spent a large amount of money on defense, and then we invested a large amount of money into Joe Mixon. WHO's a back that we'll talk about later that doesn't play on third down in some crazy way. and. They were also looking at a lower expected cap next year. And all those things together and the you can't just change an offensive line overnight. What do you do to capitalize in show Jonesboro like, Hey, we're going to get this right for you. Because right now he says all the right things. What's Joe Borough thinking in his mind? Because I went through one game like that. And the Sugar Bowl against Florida it was miserable. He's already gone through three three NFL games wiz your. Alaska. He took he took a hit yesterday that honestly and squarely some people don't get up from in the NFL right and some people their careers are never the same after something like that and he bounced back up from it. How many times are you willing to risk him getting hit like that again? Yeah. You'd get hit eighteen times. I mean I now to the point that that's that's the visual that I'm dreading and look there's there's a degree of risk with every truck back. There's a degree of risk with every every I I understand all that but. The Snapshot Divis- that I am dreading is the one of Joe Borough. Being carted off being helped off the field. Sitting on the sidelines looking dazed being told, the Joe Borough is not going to return wh what whatever whatever it is. Right And then this this whole thing, all this positive momentum ops going the in the problem with yesterday, and now that people ask me this course of wins got sacked eight times in a game this year. And when you watch that game and watch people talk about it for those sacks were on Carson Wentz holding the ball too long not getting what they want to do. Joe Berle yesterday was trying to get the ball out quick. He couldn't even take three step drop. It's a four-man rush. There's not exotic blitzes not it's is one on one getting beat in if that's the case. then. It's not Joe Borough Joe Borough didn't have the ability extent. There could have been twelve tax yesterday in a game. He saved the offensive line on multiple occasions. You cannot rely on that being the game plan going forward or it's not going to be a long game plan. There were two plays in the game that stick in my craw more than any other. I'm going to ask you about both great. When we come back, it's twenty minutes after three o'clock where twin peaks in Westchester here till six o'clock. Every Monday Adnan. So make plans at some point this season the come on out and join us, and again, if you're looking for a place to post up after work have a cold one and if you're north of town West Chester Area Sharonville, easy to get to Union Center exit is seventy. Five. Twin peaks in Westchester home the Vet River sportsbook Tony Mauro football show on ESPN Fifteen Thirty Cincinnati sport station. Twenty Six after three twenty football show rivers Tony Romo football show from twin peaks. West Chester. ESPN fifteen thirty here till six o'clock at twin peaks. You know that there are a few things that stick in my crawl more know. A running play being called on second and long. This year mathematics of dictates it's a terrible decision sometimes, it may work sometimes, you might get a a an eight yard run on second intend to set you up third and short. You got a better chance of screen going for forty two and the average NFL run play is. Slightly for your. So on average best case you're going to do is third and six. Means average. There's a lot of times where you're going to end up with thirty, seven, thirty, eight, thirty, nine, thirty, ten to thirteen longer. Okay fine. But the one that drought drove me nuts yesterday bengals take the lead and get the ball back with Sean Sims. A beautiful play intercepts a pass at phillies forty four yard line borough goes to work three straight completions were now at phillies thirteen yard line philly on their heels. On their heels, you have a chance to go up eight. Maybe. Not entirely make them one dimensional but to me, it would have put. It would've put Philly in that offense and Carson Wentz even more on their heels second intend from phillies thirteen after an incompletion. Run play from that point forward. Stuff run play by the way just from that point forward. Happened Maddening makes a field goal you go up by four but enormous missed opportunity bullock would kick a field goal later on, but we know how the game ended from that point vote. From that moment nothing went, right yeah. So to me the play that game hinged on. Second ten run play first of all, I'm. Static now that every second long if I get on twitter it because now a thing with you and you have to love that every second long yeah. Guy. tweet look it's going to happen at some point they're going to hand it to mix in on second and ten. He's going to run for thirty six yards I. Just I will. It's I'm never going to be a fan of it ever ever going to be a fan of a run planned second in ten second eight or longer you pass second ten especially in the red zone should be a double fine. Yes. Can't do it especially the way Joe Boroughs plane spread 'em out lead Joe Bora, go to work that. Look. You can either you can. Also, you can go back to the first drive of the game now. You get extra days to prepare because you played on Thursday and your first to design run plays go pretty well Joe Mixing gashes and you set yourself up with a third and too early in the game. And that's the tiny decide to pass. So passing when you should be running running when you should be passing seems to have everything backwards right now. But to your point Oh, you're gonNA mention the punt on fourth midfield we'll really setting the tone. Lewis used to get crucified for that by me Yeah. Setting the tone. Setting the tone off a bye week doing Zach. Team. That that has minimal guys plane, right? Like it's not like. It's not like you're playing. The Kansas City chiefs and you got him on the fifteen. If you don't get it, they're gonNA go right down and score him some faith in your Defense Lena if we get a fourth in shortly, we're going for it. Offense punched in if not defense has our back. that. Should be the mentality. And until you're on on the second long runs. The hardest playing football at any level is third and long. Defense whole playbook is open the edge Russia's donut to worry about a run. They just pin their ears back. Guess what third long is even tougher on when you're offensive line is abysmal when you've given up the most sacks in the NFL third long not ideal third and four hey, Joe Borough can use his feet. Joe Mixing can get a swing pass. We can run a drawl and a short pass where it comes out of your hand is in the in the equation many times if they get stop the third down late in the game. To. Aj Green. If it's third four. It's a first down. Can't live on on certain seven because Joe Borough can't take a drop at that point, right? So Not only is it manning to run on second long when you have an offensive line? That's as bad as the bengals you're doing nothing but setting joe borough up for more hits. More scrambles and maybe even some more design rollouts whether receivers. Hug each other on the side. That call to me. So they tried run play second long, and then it's third what third and two they roll borough to the right Berlin. Greener both in that one side. And the. Boy Greener both on the right side neither guy can get separation both guys are on top of each other. All all Aj's going to do is put his foot in the ground and turn up field. He do that at this point or cut the other way. It's a good question. We'll talk more about him. Here's the other one that drove me nuts captain luana room. Oh, they call timeout. It's its second rush Kim. Sorry, it's a thirty eight. With less than twenty seconds to go twenty one seconds to go actually from the bengals twenty nine yard. Guess Cincinnati is just scored. And you've you've got a chance to go into the locker room with a lead hold onto a field goal that's going to be ten to nine philly gets the ball coming out. So you're trying to sign the momentum. The bengals are lined up and Zach Taylor calls a timeout. Philly has. None. Zero, it's third and eight. All you have to do is give them a completion in front of you in front of the stick. Heck. Even if they get a first down line find, they're not in the end zone it's still they've got the ball, the twenty one yard line they've got a scramble do anything but call yeah what. Oh did which is basically designed a defense that allows greg ward a chance to run down the right sideline after getting bumped at the line of scrimmage. By, himself down the right sideline and that's an easy throat even for a guy like Carson Award was prolific in college. He didn't. He didn't play receiver in college explain to me what Luella join there and the crazy thing when you point out how this is set up thirty eight. So you could say, okay, we want to come up a little bit because if they get a short pass and get out of bounds, they can now take a couple of shots at the end zone. Deliver five yard it's still fourth-down fine. So they're kicking. Zero timeouts dot much time on the clock. All you have to do because the NFL the clock does not stop. All you have to do is keep the ball in front of you and tackle. If you do that at any point on the field, they take a field goal. It's ten to nine for some reason. One of the first times I can remember they show man press on the outside and they bring the safety down the box to show blitz and I'm like, what? What are we doing like every other time in this? Anyway right I usually hate it. Now there's no timeouts last play before the half. And they try to bluff a blitz and the safeties late getting back outside and Greg Ward walks in it's the easiest throw Carson Winston make. That's what you talked about it a time out I mean literally any other often outcome would have been fine. Is there any fine but is there no one other on the on the staff? That's like? Let's just keep them in front of us here. Keep him in front. They have no timeouts keep everything in front of you and instead we said, well, let's dial this one up right like what what's the outcome you want Carson? wentz gets confused and checks the ball down. Throws it away like what are you looking for in that situation? If it's a regular third down the course of a game. Fine. That's great. Try to confuse them not in the red zone. When you literally give up the one thing you couldn't do. But go back to that whole dry because it's what losing teams in the NFL do randy bullock kicks the ball out of bounds. Trying to pin amon the corner on the kickoff. Can we not just kick the ball into the endzone returns kicks anymore anyway. So you have all the momentum you score. Yeah. Kick it out of bounds. Let them come down and score that in a in a small bubble is why the Bengals or? Football team because they don't do plays that winning teams, you don't even think twice about. Yeah. If that's that's Kansas City, give up a ten yard pass your feel go unit ten, nine at half. Done it. Or you don't even worry. That they had a chance to put their heads together and say, okay dairies Phillips he's going to do you're going gonNA come up you're gonNA bump, Greg Ward, and then you're gonNA. Let him go let them go and then you're gonNA stand there and do nothing yup look. Zone it. It's almost like an safety is going to be too far out to come back and it's almost like at the end of games when A. Defender will come up to the flats and let a guy go behind him. Are you not just preaching? Not Huddle in a timeout? Yeah. Nothing behind you nothing behind if they catch in front of you, you make a tackle. We're good. Don't let anyone behind you. Unbelievable it again, losing football teams make those plays. The Butt Fumble to losing football team in the jets why they do that right you don't see winning teams doing stupid stuff. We see that every day twenty, four minutes away from four o'clock Tony Pike Malaita were here at twin peaks and Westchester. The Bet rivers sportsbook Tony and Mo- football show bengals tying yesterday the Philadelphia Eagles Twenty three twenty, three, their fourth tie since two, thousand, eight second against Philli. All of them against NFC teams Washington in London in two thousand sixteen also tied if you're ever. Carolina Panthers in two, thousand, fourteen game that Mike nugent failed to win with a field goal at the gun. A lot more to get to will turn our sights to the game on Sunday against the Jacksonville Jaguars and get to what it means for. Zach Taylor but we've gotta talk about the way. The dominoes are wide receiver this week four. Four wow, we have thirteen more games to go. It was interesting when the offense got going yesterday was kind of absent from the proceedings. Outside of John Ross outside of John Ross who didn't play great separation though six feet on the sideline. General. It's always fun to make fun of John. Ross. We'll do some of that as well. Twin peaks in Westchester pet- river sportsbook Tony, and Mo- football show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati. Sport station. Sixty away from four, this is the Ben River, sportsbook, Tony, and Mo- football show twin peaks of West Chester here till six o'clock we are here every single month from three until six civic can't be here today make plants at some point This season to come on, got a break in the weather get a break. If you're waiting at home for the rain to stop to get in your car to come here, you now come on up. I got news for you. The rain has not stopped. It is slowed. It's slowed I mean visibly yet it has slowed better it is. It is better than it was. So we'll see you soon. We'll see how beer is ice cold. Yes. You had a burger had a burger was gray mitigate the billionaire Bacon Burger, I usually get at four o'clock. So sort of my cute is changing things up waitress. Go ahead and bring that. I want to get to a question that you asked me to air coming up at four o'clock about this offense and then. This game on Sunday is immense for Zach. Taylor. But. Before we get to. The wide receiver position which continues to be really interesting for this team. I've got some good news. People keep saying the Bengals don't care about their offense. We. Go Are you ready? Yes. The bengals today signed guard Keaton Sutherland Oh from the practice squad. And they have waived guard Shack Calhoun. You might be going wait a minute shack Calhoun. That's a really cool name who the hell is that. He joined the bengals right before the opener got off waivers from Miami he did not dress for game one. He was inactive. He was active for the last two games, but he did not play. So how bad do you have to be if you're Shack Calhoun? You can't get a rep on this team. What what I'm reading about Kiefer Sutherland to which is good as that the dolphins parted ways with them. If you look what we're doing here, Sutherland and Calhoun both were with the dolphins. Yeah. They got calhoun from Miami and then Sutherland from my you know there are teams that try to emulate what the Patriots doing stuff Taylor wasn't Miami for a while it's like you know what? Let's keep an eye on these dolphins guys hang around the practice squad and bring him here. But we don't is he starting starting this week he right but. Tonight He. Sounds Joke Berle. WHO WHO's? Going to tell me we had made a trade or something. It was interesting to me when the bengals offense Kinda got going yesterday. I tweeted that Berlin Tyler buoyed it seemed to me for the first time all year long it clicked the they started to cook. You saw in the red zone t higgins was a big part of what they did and then to me should be his role. Yeah. All right. So An actual tangible contribution from t higgins. On tape is made a beautiful catch on the sideline yesterday by the way, t higgins numbers are even better if they count the catch that he made were borough spin out of trouble. He's on the right sideline the officials ultimately got it right but. Teased Day was. This close to being even a little bit better. Statistically AJ Green was not entirely absent from when did yesterday but when the offense got going AJ was noticeably APPs. Here with Paul Dana Junior last week when they targeted him thirteen times and he only had three receptions Aj said last week look I'm paraphrasing him here. I'm coming off injury I didn't play last year still learning the offense Gimme some time. I'm not sure this team has time. What do you of the relative lack of production from AJ Green if it was Just timing things, I would be okay with. But. It's separation. It's route running and stuff that he's done for his whole life and five catches for thirty six yard yesterday the catch number zone catch and run with AJ great nod catches hero Watson tackle not getting separation, and you could say that for a lot of the receivers outside of Tyler Boyd. No doubt. This team downplayed. John Ross and. Aj Green barely practicing in the preseason. Held AJ green out of. scrimmages when he wanted to practice and go. And they said, it wasn't a big deal. I, think it's a huge deal. And I think when you watch red zone one on one jump going to contain instead of Aj Green I think that shows you're joe boroughs out with his level of comfort and by the way I'm okay with yes with those guys to. Look at this. Now, you mentioned the play yesterday where it didn't look like he could just cutting accelerate out of it. Anytime, you watch him on a route he he's not bursting. He looks at the route he looks extremely slow. And, he's like when he gets up off the ground, he looks slow you hold your breath when he gets tackled I wrote down. The only thing I've Aj Green is, is this roster as the new norm? I mean. Zach Taylor while not throwing age green under the bus was asked about some of the stuff and. You have to pay better attention to detail that tells me that the third down late in the game. Maybe AJ. Greens should have been at seven or eight yards but got pushed a four and next thing you know you're punt the ball away. The place that you wouldn't expect AJ Green to. To make you expect him to be sharp areas of the game. To me for a guy that's making eighteen million dollars right now and you're getting zero production from that. That's alarming because let's face it buoyed has stepped up. Higgins looks great on tate has shown flashes in now outside of Aj Green Mike Thomas has your guy instead of John Ross. What does that say for now John Ross Yeah what is it safe for not just the Aged. Green's been the pro's pro here in Cincinnati. He's everything to Cincinnati. He's wanting another deal. Could you imagine anyone paying him right now? No it confirms the bengals position being the right one, which is we're not handing this guy a blank check, but you mentioned John Ross now you and I talked extensively about John Ross after they drafted him and the idea was we can integrate this guy at a position of strength and then. In three or four years he will be the new AJ green that doesn't mean Aj can't be on the team but by then he's going to be an older aging player perhaps not as productive but John Ross as a top ten pick, you know what he's he's going to be the He's going to be the new AJ Green. He's going to be beating teams downfield. He'll be the number one target. Aj's career. We didn't see all the injuries. We didn't see him missing an entire year but okay, there's been a lack of production from Aj a drop in production, which is what happens when you're thirty two, it gets amplified by the fact that yesterday in a critical game. Your first round pick from twenty seventeen draft the guy who by now was supposed to be in a way replacing Aj. Green. Wasn't even actifed. Yeah. What does the problem does this team not have the ability to do right now on offense throw the ball downfield what was John drafted to do throw it on top off to denounce so a swinging Amiss John Rawson look honestly after watching yesterday with Auden t higgins might Thomas Tyler Boyden Aj does does Jon? Ross dress for another game this year great question last week the odd man out was odd and take this this week obviously John Rawson somebody's Gonna Wait gives you more audited. I can use them effectively as tight end I can use them as a possession guy I could use them red zone. Frankly, frankly audited he's a better football player right now John Inasmuch as much as the physical side, the mental side as well. I watch John Ross get hit in the shoulder. Yeah. With a crossing route because he didn't look hot right. So that tells me mentally he doesn't have a full understanding of what's going on in the backfield either audited is a better football player John, Ross, John Ross might. Be, a better athlete he might be faster he most certainly is audited is a better football player Mike Thomas. A Better football player AJ goes without saying buoyed Duh. T Higgins is a those guys are better players than John Wrong with that being said, there are teams in the NFL that would take a flyer on a on a deep. There you go. Flip give me your backup guard for John Ross. Legitimately how about how about a linemen that can do both play some guard play some tax he's just a he's affiliated type of guy. Can Be Solid. I'll take him for John. Ross let's do it right now. We have no use for this receiver who is a former first round pick you have no commitment beyond this season s give me who's our worst linemen yes. Second. Julia. Worst actor who are worst active linemen. Yes. In you dealing I don't care what position it is. Give me your worst fat guy to Sean Wotton deep threat yes. As the Andre Hockey, it can worse. John Roscoe's and he thrived what's good for him. Fine. But I've got a former first round pick who has soap in neath everybody else on the depth chart that in a must win game frankly I think that kind of was yesterday we're benching him for dudes like Mike Thomas yes. For Guy for seventh around like Auden. Incredible. So if you have no use for them on Game Day and you're stacked and loaded at this position, which is all I keep hearing you suck on the offensive line. John Ross for a fat dude. Your worst offensive Lineman for our worst receiver Yup deal deal. Let's make it happen. Eight minutes away from four o'clock. Tony. Asked me a question off air about the bengals offense that I will pose to him. I'm not sure if that makes a Lotta Sense. Yeah. You asked me a question I'll ask you but we'll do it for the purposes of framing. It to the audience and we've got to talk about this game on Sunday what it means for Zach Taylor will go around the NFL. We gotTA talk, Joe Mixing To. We've got to talk about Joe, mixing and his role on this. If you don't remember he signed forty million dollar deal, we will also get to something that I really like about this defense. We've got to talk about the bear game on Saturday, and even though we both have some time to talk about it between now and Wednesday, few minutes on the red. Yes. Layoffs. One of the most Cathartic only baseball show. That's one of the most Cathartic moments I've had as a Cincinnati sports fan on Friday night in a long while all of that between now and six o'clock it's the rivers sportsbook Tonio football show from twin peaks in Westchester on Espn Fifteen. Thirty Cincinnati Sport Station. This facebook bet rivers sportsbook Tony Mo- football show live from twin peaks in Westchester brought to you in part by encore technologies visit encore Dante Miami Valley. Gaming Jedi. Ready to get lucky at Miami Valley Gaming Stone Statements. Bring your dream kitchen to light stone statements. Dot Com. Knicks go plumbing. Don't go to the average Joe Cole. Go Superior. Superior Honda. STORE DOT COM Simply Superior Hard Rock Casino game for State Bank. You're at home with US Life Center changing lives through organ and Tissue Donation Orinoco Carriers. Your Global Transportation Provider visit our LLC DOT com today, and by Bent Rivers your hometown sportsbook visit bet rivers dot com. It's CINCINNATI ESPN fifteen thirty the official home of Bengals. We got our number two. It's the river sportsbook. Tony and Mel Football Show live at twin peaks in Westchester. We just got beers beer and their to they're big and they're cold and they're good like a slush. These guys do advertise like having the coldest draft beer now. That is not false advertising. You got the big one this week to I did get the big one this week. I got the big one two weeks ago week one you've got the baby beer. I did they got you said it should have come with a toy? I got the adult here not that not that there's a such thing as a kids beer. But you don't serve kids here. Beer list serve your kid food. For, dinner with the family. But no, you're you're not. Juniors going to get a cold one but you can. Easy to get to is Seventy Five Union Center Boulevard Exit I get the wings for the first time. Okay. They're on their way. Okay. I got the Burger, the first two billion billionaire Bacon Burger decided to switch things up a little bit gone wings. A more of a bone in guy. But when you're doing a show like go homeless so we'll see how they are have high expectations. Pro's pro pro's pro. That's you. The bengals lose yesterday twenty, three to twenty three and that's how I look at it. They all. Tied United that could be the tiebreaker that gets them in the playoffs. This year could be the idea is to win Football Games Zach. Taylor has done it twice. He's GonNa win this one on on Sunday? winning. Culture has to involve winning at some point. Sometimes I do that to see if anyone the crowd actually listens because I said the bengals in the playoffs this year and no one really started laughing. So let's let me ask a question somewhat rhetorically that you asked me that I did not have an answer to I often hear analysts former players. People who. Come off as sounding really smart about football. They always talk about teams offensive identity Oh. Yeah. You asked me. And I could not give you an answer. What is the Bengals? Offensive identity since I couldn't give you an answer because I don't know what it is. I know what they're offense of identity is, is I get a sense of what it's supposed to be. Right yeah. But I don't know what it is. Do you that's the problem that's why I posed that question to you. Because Zach Taylor is now one season and three games in and I don't know the bengals offensive identity under Zach Taylor. Look across some of the best teams in the NFL. They, all have their own identity. What's the Ravens Punch in the mouth run? I play action with Lamar chiefs, UPTEMPO push the ball down the field dudes streaking all of a lot of pressure on the defense lot of speed a lot of adjustments the Tennessee. Titans. We're GONNA run the ball forty times at you. We're going to set up the bears will set up plaques rely on our defense. Go. Across the best teams Seattle this year finally understood it. We're not going to try to be balanced let Russell Wilson of Wilson go play. Yeah. Like every. Patriots have remade their offense of identity offline. What is it now run run the ball. Every good team that competes. For the postseason has an identity in the NFL. And a year and three games in I still don't know Zach Taylor's identity because. We're going to run first team. Okay. Well, then joe mixing gets more than seventeen carries. Hey, we're going to be UPTEMPO. Team. Okay, well, then play UPTEMPO. The New Orleans Saints, what they quick hitters all the way down the field running back out of the backfield. Okay let's use that. Bengals don't have one. Well, we want to throw the ball more down the field. We'd like to get the ball in Joe's hands. We'd like to move the ball move the pocket. One established. Joe. Mix. What is your identity? In. That that to me is more alarming than. Hastens Zach Taylor's last. UC's now to twenty one and two calling plays. He's ten and one in one possession games. Okay. Wills your stats. Let's go back to two thousand, sixteen you and I were both there for every single snap of Zach Taylor's one season that you see and he walked into a situation that situation that program was already starting to dip. The two thousand fifteen season was a massive disappointment certainly relative to what the expectations were before the season. In Twenty Sixteen, he inherits Gunner Kiel. There were some issues with Gunnar those are well established. And by the end of the year, nobody cared who's Taylor was it was all got to move on from Tommytucker, Ville right but you were on the sideline for every game I was in the broadcast booth for every game I remember that season well. I don't recall thinking. Here's what the bearcats are offensive. Here's what they do. Really. Well, I recall often thinking why is so boring? This is maddening I mean you have conversation maddening in an era of especially in college in an era of major offense of creativity where teams on a weekly basis? Are you inventing stuff really creative our offense looks like it's from Nineteen forty-six Zach was the offensive that year now they have the horses not really but to that point, the American wasn't what the American is today not even close. So you're playing against lesser opponents. Yeah. It's been a move the ball. So I remember. You and I talked about this year and a half ago in the bank they weren't sure they weren't losing shoot-outs at UC. They weren't scoring at the end of that year. No, they were awful. Yes and the situation was, what was the personnel was not great but I remember having conversations with have conversations with Jim Kelly. going. You know in an era in college football that is defined by creativity. This is anything but right Zach was the offensive coordinator that year. Okay fine. He comes here he's calling the plays. This is his offense right he's going to do everything calling plays and coach and the team still not sure that's not a little bit too much for a guy who's never been a head coach before but okay Zach. This offense opposed to be. An even at full strength even if they had a good offensive line, I'm not sure what the identity of Zach Taylor offense is right? That's kind of a problem, a year and a quarter of the season but then we're into his tenure but here's the from Zach Taylor for the most part to my understanding was hired because he's coming from the rams right. Although his office is right down the hall from Sean McVeigh, we'll just wait oh vetting process way to go duke I've watched three Rams Games as time vetting the coaching go find offensive lineman. Yeah, I've watched all three rams games this year. Yeah I've watched all three Bengals Zach Taylor is not Sean McVeigh. Sean mcvay is a offensive genius. You mean. So hiring the guy who was like getting coffee for Sean mcvay wasn't the right now working and then there's the excuses, right? Well, those teams have more weapons. Okay. The Rams. Off The rams twenty-fifth best offensive line going into this year the chargers thirty Seattle Twenty eight. The bears one twenty to Atlanta Twenty four all teams that are putting up points. With bad offensive line. So the offensive line is not an excuse. You can game plan you can scheme even when even when Joe? Borough completes passes. When this have an easy completion now it's it's a tight window throwing minutes a catch a tackle. And then, and then we're scheming. Drew Sample Block a defensive end like those or coaching effort. Separation creative design bad matchups the second long runs, the third passes, and this was a game where you had an extra days to prepare. Yeah. So. I understand offensive. Line is an issue. But when you look at teams across the NFL, one could argue that the bengals skill guys. Are. As talented as those top teams in the NFL Joe Nixon Tyler Boyd Aj Green Tea Higgins on that whole company. You could argue skill wise competes with anybody. Tony. They have first of all the offense line issued Zach. Is He in charge of coaching the offensive line? No but he stood on the table The guy he had to have was Jim Turner. Zach. Needs. Jim Questionable Resume Trust me he's my guy. He's my guy he's my God. Okay. Well, how's that working out for us and what we do? Well, let's overlook everything from Jim Turner. So if you wanted to say well, last year, he was handcuff handcuff because Andy Dalton stinks job boroughs done anything Joe Birds Been. Fine. Who Job Joe Borough is going to be an absolute Star, you have it wide receiver. You have a guy who up until a couple of years ago was putting together a borderline hall of fame career. You're paying eighteen million dollars to John. Ross. Say What you want about that dude former top ten pick t higgins in another year at wide receivers the first round pick tyler, Boyd Second Second Round pick who they just gave. Forty eight, million dollars to their heavily invested at wide receiver Joe Mixon as a top. Would you say eight running back? Yes. They certainly paid them to be, yes. Giovanni Bernard's a former second round pick the team teams given a second contract to there's there's a lot of coaches who would love to say who would love to go years one and two certainly year to. Work with put it as simply right now, if you if you told any coach minus four five in the NFL right now hey, would you want to come in and take Joe Borough? Yes every single one of them outside of hard ball Andy Reid. Probably Pete Carroll and who else If. You're if you're if I'm giving you here's what Joe Boroughs done with the worst offensive line and football and no scheme around him I'm GonNa Give Him Joe Mixing Aj Green Tyler Boyd I'm GonNa give you all those guys and let you get creative coaches would line up to say this is the job I want there has been a lot of weirdness with Josh mcdaniels Indy was going to hire them then they got called cough at the last second the felt like he was going clean going to get a Cleveland didn't happen the Denver era was chequered. But if Josh mcdaniels let it be known I WANNA come back to the NFL. And I WANNA be he's in the come back into your head coach in the NFL. And? I'm looking for a place to go. And you said to him. All right man here's what's going to happen right now you can coach Joe Borough, an old Aj green but still AJ Graham. Here's Tyler Boyd quintessential number two wide receiver who by the way was great yesterday quintessential number two wide receiver who's being paid like a really good number two wide receiver. You're going to give you t higgins how well we'll give you John Ross to and get Joe Mixon and Giovanni Bernard Kit. Can you can you make do with that? You don't have a good offensive line, but can you make do with that? I'd be willing to go. Yeah. Yes. Look I want to coach those group of. quarterback who the ramps guys Cooper Cup. Yeah. Tobacco deaths WHO's running back by committee committee yes. Good. Gracious. Just just look at these teams that are scoring a lot of points and you can say you know what got it right They got it right and we're sitting here after giving a coach which is crazy sports right now we gave a head coach a free pass only to win season When when he was the head coach and the play call for the first time? Yes. have. Total pass first job we also gave a pass because he didn't climb the coaching hierarchy. He was under Sean McVeigh. He was on the right staff at the right time. You know what that guy's tabbed as the next genius we've got to have the pass expires at four PM on Sunday we will talk about it next. It's the Vet River sportsbook Tony in Mo- football show live from twin peaks in Westchester Amoah. He's Tony Pike. My wings are here. Eat those. Zach. Taylor. Eighteen minutes after four o'clock. This is Espn Fifteen Thirty Cincinnati sport station. Corporation presents football in the nanny brought to you in part by Papa John's pizza on ESPN fifteen, thirty, the official home of the bengals. Pet Rivers Tony Romo football show ESPN. Fifteen thirty. Words. Speaks Westchester by the way. Confirmed good with boneless win to. Those are strong the onion which had tapped into yet. We look at those those are we've yet to have a bad meal. There is no such thing as an average onion rings. Yeah. They're either greater awful. I have not had one yet but based on my experience with the wings leading toward great boom you never go to a place like the entering Zor Okay How's the food? That's all right. That's. The boneless wings were phenomenal. Beers, an average temp foods. All right. Going their beer is beer and great food. So you refer to the pass that Zach Taylor got last year and. I absolutely am on board with giving him a pass for less season I am absolutely on board with. Okay rookie quarterback I three games. A lots being settled with his team. It's hard to expect major results. They need to win this game on Sunday three point favorites against the Jacksonville Jaguars team that was not very good on Thursday night football. They've they've stripped apart the roster. The players themselves certainly aren't tanking, but it kind of feels like the front office is. They've had three close calls, three winnable games certainly yesterday was winnable. They should have won it. I would say the same thing about the chargers they were in a position to be in a position to win against Cleveland. They've got to win this game on Sunday if you if you want to. If you want to sell that Zach Taylor thing on people at some point, winds are needed he they need to win on. Sunday. It's crazy that four games into a season or no one expected the bengals would go to the playoffs we're talking about a must win. Because you would think like, okay improve five, six wins this year. Yeah. But the way they've played in the first three and the way that the Games have been coached and managed it is one hundred percent. They situation right now where you have to beat the Jacksonville Jaguars? If you come out in because what? What's what's always said about Zach Taylor and it's crazy to me. Well, he hasn't lost. He hasn't lost the locker room, the guys who are playing hard for him. To ride with him and I said often last year. Look these guys are nine Clare Right in quit. Okay but that's one thing. But what's happening on the field is the next thing. Jacksonville is a bad football team. That's this is another team who bengals skill guys better on paper the bengals roster should beat this team. You certainly are aren't scared of Jacksonville's defense collapse Campbell's gone. Jalen Ramsey is gone. But you sit here and you say, okay if if they lose this and you got, you still got to play the Ravens and steelers four times. Got To play the titans which. You gotta play the colts in their offensive line and what they can do in the running game. The Titans Derrick Henry running at a thousand like. The time. You have to show some sort of life now Ross you could arguably go into the by without a win. Yeah. And if you do that and you're questioning that. Is there any realm of possibilities you pull the plug on? Zach Taylor. because. Any other year if any domes a quarterback this year. I. Get it. This was supposed to be going in all right Zach. Taylor. Here's Joe Borough here's Joe Nixon. Here's the receiving core that we've upgraded with t higgins. Here's all of this stuff. Go do what you're supposed to do, which is what? Running offense offense of Guru if you can't do it to this point, you're not going do it and with a rookie quarterback on a rookie deal where you can be aggressive and spend elsewhere you're the small window to capitalize and like we talked about. Coaches would line up. To coach a once in a lifetime type town like Joe Borough, you have to, you have to call it a must win Sunday we said before the season. Awesome that the win-loss expectation reasonably was six and ten. Yeah Right. Six wins. That's that's a that's a that's a leap. It's not enough obviously, but but for for this season. Six and ten. Lose on Sunday you've gone through the first quarter of the season against beatable teams. Yes. Without winning a football game three, one, two, and two I then got to get to six. So to get to six wins I, gotTa Finish six, thousand six and you mentioned who they haven't played yet. Right I am going to assume that best case best case. They get one of the Games against Pittsburgh and Baltimore Best. One. Two of the best defense right and that's the best case you win one. So. Let's say you do. Let's say then you've got to win five. Of the other eight games. Right. I don't think this team is good enough to do that. For a thousand different reasons. This is an immensely huge game for if the idea is. You know we want. We want everybody to rally around Zach he's the guy at some point he and his franchise have to start showing results. I've set it off them. This is not a team that started from scratch. They spend on a rebuild, not a rebuild they spend a lot of money in in free agency. Their roster is fifteenth in the NFL in youth. So middle of the pack, they ever roster of dudes are on their second NFL contracts. They acquired players who fit the profile of what you're looking for in free agency. They decided to bring Aj greenback they decided to bring Carlos Dunlap they decided to extend Joe Mixing. Say which one about the composition of the offensive line they double down on these guys. Your win loss total is a referendum on the work. You're doing the a Front Office and coaching staff. To a degree, I'll give him a pass on the first three games. But against a team that is begging to be beat your favorite to win for whatever that's worth. You gotTA start to show some progress that means winning on Sunday and you mentioned progress. That's what you and I talked about. Deciding how the season goes right? Because we said it's not so much a win loss total for us. It's how the performs and improves they're not improving right now. They're not getting better and we're seeing the same stuff we saw last year. So if there's not a big jump in your and you're looking and say look yesterday, you're telling me that this team had an extra two days to prepare and that was the game plan. Yeah. Against a team decimated by injuries that that was your game plan. You can throw out speculation you could throw whatever the stats are. Right now there are ten in one in one possession games. Zach Taylor has yet to win a one possession game. He's ten of 'EM. They tie yesterday nate for they should've lost really botched the end of that game. And dating back to those games that we talked about as a play caller his last five at UC in the NFL he's to twenty, one and two. So. Those. are numbers those are real. That's not that's not let me speculate onto this. Those are actual numbers of what they've done to produce. Yeah. At some point that has to turn and if it doesn't turn against a team in Jacksonville who is openly tanking. Then how do you? How do you go in to this team and say, Hey, we're trying to win. Yeah. By the end of the year, we both said by the end of the year, we want to walk away from the season feeling like you know what the Bengals got their quarterback to me the precincts. I know they got their quarterback I know it joe boroughs the guy you know that I know that anybody in this bar knows Joe Borough the guy yes I wanna feel like at the end of the season you know what they got their coach. As of right now. I don't know. But. If I'm sitting here a week from today. and. I. Watched them lose to a team that might be the worst in the League And now we're Ofri and one yikes. What what am I supposed to point to right because I'll I'll give people that get mad at me for bringing this up go. Okay fine. You could tell me that it's not fair to Zach. Well, he didn't have a quarterback and he didn't have a roster and he didn't okay. What can I point to to suggest he's the guy. If he is, let's see we got it's always weird with ties to seventeen and. One. Through Twenty Games. What am I supposed to point to? What what what what what is the success that I'm supposed to point to and for a guy that has no track record and not that if they went on Sunday to one eighty and go is that clearly is the guy? But there's less of a chance of me saying that they lose on Sunday because there's less of a chance of winning enough games for me to say that if we lose on Sunday, you know what? What's crazy about the guy in that locker room right now Andy Dalton was fine staying quiet Joe Borough won't know Jonesboro. He's been adamant. I WanNa win a championship here. This isn't a rebuild guess what if you're just trotting the same stuff out there week-to-week guess who's not going to be around when his contract comes up Joe Burrow because the guy just wants to win. And when he's getting beat up and he's getting beat up and there's no easy throws in the scheme just isn't bear guess what. No matter what you're going to throw out there joe boroughs not going to be a part of it twenty-seven away from five o'clock. He's Tony polycom Allegra it the river sportsbook Tony and Mo- football show were posted up at twin peaks and Westchester until. Six o'clock, we have so much more that we have to talk about we have to get to who the first coach in the NFL to be fired is going to be. Those sweepstakes are getting hotter. We have a possibly great Monday night football game. This evening, we got a lot of stuff happening around the NFL who's the Monday night game a year or two ago. That lived up to the hype Ranson. Rams and chief justice no yes. Taylor. Yes. There's genius that game. That's what I want tonight to be live up to the hype. Yeah. I think fifty to forty nine I have a question about that game that we're GonNa get to and the bearcats out to us. I like some of what I saw on, Saturday? I got a major question. We'll get to all that. Between now and six Bent River Sports Book Tony and Mo-. Football. Show twin peaks. Westchester Espn Fifteen Thirty Cincinnati sports station. You've been listening to football manetti presented by Rdi Corporation on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the bengals. Sportsbook Tony Romo football show live at twin peaks Westchester. One bengals roster move today the team signing guard Keaton Sutherland from the practice squad to the active roster and waving guards Shack Calhoun I. Guess You saw this on twitter Ben baby of ESPN tweeted they. They were doing an interview session with the offensive coordinator, Brian? Callaghan. Asking him about shack. The. Shack Hal who news came that should tell you how much. Claiming these coaches are really talking about right now. Let me talk to you about this guy that's now not on the roster. Very. Good. Meanwhile, we are prepping for the reds and braves on Wednesday game. One of their national league wildcard series against Atlanta. We'll talk a ton about that series starting tomorrow couple of other things really quickly if you looking for the mark stoops radio show that will air it six tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty Kentucky coming off a season opening loss auburn Monday night football also Amazon Espn fifteen thirty tonight a good one between Kansas City and Baltimore. You see bearcats ranked number fifteenth in both Major College football polls the river sportsbook Tony and football show is brought to in part by Hawksworth blood centers, hawksworth donors, save lives, who will you save as well as Murphy Help Mercy Health Orthopedics, and Sports Medicine of caring for Athletes Across Cincinnati for more for Mercy Health Orthopedics and sports medicine. Here's Tony. Much appreciate mode time now in our show to spend a few minutes getting our injury questions answered today. And movie four, we'll be joined by Dr Matt Bosom for Mercy Health find out more about your injury concerns or questions at mercy dot com got to Buzzer and what's going on buddy and just enjoying the fall and looking forward to what I hope is a continually injury-free and successful fall sports and then winter sports season. This is this is The time of the year where it starts to all kind of set in, we get playoff baseball. The reds are a part of it. You get high school football with the temperature starting to change. This is this is a good sports time of the year today I wanted to spend a few minutes talking about something that I really never had to worry about. Because when you when you don't play for long stretches of time, you don't have to worry about load management, but we got the NBA final starting. We got the football season. Now getting into the heart of it high school season's coming to an end. You see it all different sports talk to me just a little bit about a load management and and how you go about handling this type of stuff. Well. I think we have to to address load management looking at it from sort three different sets of eyes right as a fan we look at it and we hate it because it means that our favorite player may not be participating. As a coach or a player you look at it as an occasional necessary evil. And as a as a sports medicine provider whether your doctor athletic trainer, you look at it is the best way you can. You can sometimes keep your athletes participating for longer. So nobody wants to buy a ticket and find out that Lebron play that night nobody wants to turn on the TV and say, don't understand why my favorite player isn't playing. But by the same token nobody ever wants to say. Well here's my favorite player and he's injured and I don't get to see him for three months or this is my favorite team in our best players out and now our postseason is wrecked. And so we have to understand is that there's really a number of different ways to manage things but essentially what we're talking about all of our athletes have climbed to the top of some mountain. And we want him to walk along the summit and we don't want him to fall off the cliff. And that's what we're doing with load management intentionally pull them back from the edge. So they can continue to walk along that summit instead of taking one extra step. And fallen down the hill when when you look at the physicality of and certainly look at the NBA and you look at Major, League baseball is it just a time for the body to reset because the volume of games in? So many days is just so great and no sports that I look at load management in baseball and basketball and say man, those are those are guys at the highest level, our bodies they're putting so much stress on their bodies. So I see that but then I also see in the NFL as a way to okay this players getting older he needs to recharge so. Is it more of a of just that quick reset and allow their bodies to properly. He'll. Well I. Think it's it's it is that exactly like you said, we have to ever reset, but we're we're sometimes managing to different types of injuries. We have some guys who have chronic problems guys are at the end of their career and maybe they have knee arthritis. So they have shoulder arthritis and if they don't get those veteran days off is what they call them in the NFL veteran rest day than the load across their body and going to be able to handle what they need to do on Sunday. On the other hand you sometimes have injuries that are more acute that you just have to heal through. But then the third thing you have is what we would call an acute on chronic. So you have a guy who's got some arthritis rightists and then he got banged up and it's swollen and you gotta manage that one. So you have to look at the different type of injury, but a really good way to look at it. Is that one day off my by you several weeks of participation whereas continuing to practice or even participate at a high level on that one day may cost you months. So it's really an investment that the coaches are making and what we have at our disposal in two thousand twenty, which we didn't have you know even two thousand ten or certainly before that are are devices that help you monitor the load. And FC Cincinnati on professional soccer level. We know how many how many well you know because it's it's soccer. How many kilometers these guys ran right over the course of a game how fast they did it how quickly they can accelerate how quickly they decelerate and then we can manage that. We check their heart rate to say, Hey, are they recovering from that? Whereas their heart rate stain really elevated, which tells us maybe they say they feel fine. But if their heart rate doesn't come back down, we can say their body's not responding appropriately and they do that certainly in the NBA and they do it in the NFL as well. You know in in in baseball were sort of accustomed to the idea that the pitchers get rest. Right, but on the other hand, we think every other player should be cal ripken curly haired, right? You can't you gotta be kidding me all they did was stand there for eight hours. How do they possibly need rest? I mean you and I know if you go stand somewhere for four or five hours, you might be a little sore. and. These guys are doing it over the course of of. Barely two and a half months playing sixty games traveling all over the traveling all over the Midwest and trying to get that done and so these athletic trainers and strengthened performance coaches have to do a really good job and our job is fans is to recognize that. It may frustrate us on an individual night to not see a player participate but when they can play at the highest level all the way through it makes sense i. mean certainly nobody's complaining that we get to watch Lebron Anthony Davis in the NBA finals on Wednesday that's awesome and we'd all be pissed off if Lebron was so fatigued and he was injured that he wouldn't plan nobody enjoyed last year's NBA Lebron didn't play. I I think to the main point of it in the NFL. That's what practices you see. All we practice the injury report in the guys just get arrest day. So you can load manage in the NFL and not have it make an impact on the game NBA Mlb don't have that because of the type of seasons that they play. Dr Bosom appreciated as always whether it is FC Cincinnati Bengals or on the field at high school you're a busy man especially this type of the time of the year. Appreciate you taking some time today appreciate having me Tony. You have a great week. Thank you. Take Care bye-bye. Bosom mercy health in your injury questions answered for more go to mercy DOT COM. Are Tony. Thanks so much. We thank Mercy Health Orthopedics and Sports Medicine Brennaman and Jones on baseball a couple minutes away, and then we have a full hour to get to not only yesterday's game but. It's talking about the NFL as a whole and spend a few minutes on the bearcats as well. It's the Bet River sportsbook Tony and football show from twin peaks in Westchester Espn Fifteen Thirty Cincinnati sport station from Dan Hoard and Dave Lapham Tony, Pike, and Mo. Egger nobody covers the bengals like Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the orange and black. This these bet rivers sportsbook Tony and Mo- football. Live from twin peaks in Westchester brought to you in part by encore technologies visit encore Don Tech Miami Valley Gaming, ready to get lucky at Miami Valley Gaming Stone Statements Bring your dream kitchen to light stone statements dot Com Knicks go plumbing don't go to the average Joe Comex Gold Superior Honda Superior Honda Store Dot Com Simply Superior Hard Rock Casino get in the game I state bank. You're at home with US Life Center changing lives through organ and tissue donation. Carriers your global transportation. Provider. visit. Our LLC DOT com today and bent rivers your hometown sportsbook visit. Vet. Rivers Dot Gov. This is Cincinnati Espn fifteen thirty the official home of the bengals. Remember sportsbook. Tony about football show where a twin peaks. Westchester hanging out every single Monday the last hour of the show if. You're out about I seventy five north of town. We are right off the Union Center Boulevard exit merely seconds away seconds you can have if you're like approaching exit right now, you can have an extraordinarily cold beer in your hands right meal within minutes because meal and we're here every Monday. So if not today maybe next Monday. Yes or the week after that, maybe we'll be celebrating a win a week from today, and if you're if you're someone now that you know Saturday or Friday texts me and says, Hey, I'm coming up Monday. Yeah. Don't be the guy that backs out you get this often when you do this. Often when I had that happen to me today. Yeah. I'M NOT GONNA make it. Sorry. Just you know it that you do run into data lot in when you do shows out at places like this just be upfront show up nobody nobody ever said man I wish I wouldn't have hung out at twin peaks though man I was terrible stopping by there today. Yeah. Had A really bad time. Had they have beer? Twenty I really sort of irrelevant to the whole what proceeding what else are you doing on a Monday correct? It's right. It's the start of the week storage it up. Don't know what's going to be a fun week. Yeah. To be a fun sportsweek reds in the playoffs obviously, you can post up here on Wednesday and. Watch a lot of sporting events on Wednesday. There's eight Major League Baseball Games on Wednesday, four tomorrow reds, and braves Wednesday at noon. And you can post up for the Monday night football game as well. This evening chiefs and Ravens which I expect to be. A heck of a lot better than the bengals are gonNA play on. Sunday. That better than that game better than the Thursday night broncos jets this week. It's going to be fantastic tonight. Lakers Wednesday yes. Start Your Day here. Finish your day here. Camp can't beat that. Let's Talk about chiefs and and Ravens kyw. We like. Wagering he'll talking about wagers. Successful at it if I, if I gave you in the AFC a choice. You can have Baltimore in Kansas City. Or the field. Who Take Baltimore Kansas City Two hands down. Maybe if it's different off season, I'll change it up but those two teams had the least amount of turnover. They were fantastic last year. Tonight's game is crazy to me because feel like the Ravens did more to get better in the offseason like Edwards Hilar- falls in the laps of the chiefs. Watching the chiefs against the chargers they struggled up front. Yeah and Baltimore just goes out and gets collapse Campbell. They get Dobbins in the draft. Another year of Lamar. Jackson I'm interested to see how this game goes tonight because for two weeks now. The Ravens late in the game because they're up by so much. They just kind of run the clock out I am highly highly interested to see where these two teams right tonight. Well, and you know we have a new playoff format of the NFL this year seven teams per conference. Make It. So this this this game tonight could decide. who gets the top seed and that's the only team that gets a by not only do you get home field throughout your the only team that doesn't have to play in your conference on wild card weekend. So this has possibly enormous postseason if. And if you're a fan of the Pittsburgh steelers. And you know, I, guess by extension the Bengals as well. If we want to pretend the bengals have a chance to win the division but we do because they tied. If you're a fan of the steelers three and they're to a great start, really kind of feels like nobody's talking about him. Yeah. But if you want to win the division obviously have. A couple of head to head opportunities Baltimore's not GonNa lose often this is a chance for them. This is a huge opportunity for the steelers but the storylines like Patrick Mahomes five Oh and one when an underdog against the spread. Yeah. I think I think basically I think the line three and a half because it's in Baltimore and the Baltimore Has Justin Tucker. But Man I. I want to see what the chiefs do bounce back from the offensive line struggles and you know what's fun to watch with the chiefs is that they will. Schematically, they will change from last week to this week and actually better at their deficiency. I want to see Lamar Jackson in a close game I want to see him make some pressure throws and as always. I want to take the lock of the night, which was Travis Kelsey getting over five and a half catches and a touchdown at plus one fifteen easy I like both easy money I like both those Kelsey six catches one. Oh, to touch all right I could give you one of these two teams for the rest of the season Tampa Bay Oh, or New England oh Man. I'll take. Tampa Bay. Now, the only worry is that Godwin now at the hamstring issue headed concussion issue. And I don't know if I would have said. Seen for Ned have a strong game the week before I think they have enough defensively those strong and they did something crazy as well. Once they got Brady, they made upgrades on the offensive line. I do I'll give it to the Patriots because a lot of people questioned cannot work there and they have lost so many weapons they have a true identity now on offense. Good for them. Yeah Eileen, I lean your way. I'm not sure what the Patriots. Are Doing. Has Legs in terms of them being a legitimate contender and I kind of by Josh Allen hype to you. So I'm not sure that the Patriots are the best team in their own division. The NFC. South is a mess. which takes us to which which currently struggling team who? Would you be more willing to wager on making the postseason? The saints who lose in Prime Time again, last night to Aaron Rodgers who has been unbelievable so far. Or the cowboys I'm not gonNA take it away from the saints for losing last night because Rogers been great I'll take the cowboys and that's tough because you could argue the cowboys should be oh and three if not for Falcons meltdown, right but man I, just look at the weapons on Dallas. Offense. If that defense can just be. Average at best Dallas is going to score with people. Alice has not played a division game. The Eagles are bad. The giants are bad. The Washington football team is bad. Yes. So I still feel like Dallas can to eight or nine wins. Tampa Carolina's improved. New Orleans I duNNo. New Orleans I feel like New England or New Orleans in trouble did we have another one? We were going to get you. If you're if I could sell you right now the bears three zero to make the playoffs or the Texans at Owen three. You going. Bears are turning things over to nick foles. Yes. To make the playoffs. I would take the bears to Texans have had a nightmare start to watch. But there's an awful offseason. Yeah. If a bonehead for coach who somehow finds ways to make the playoffs us do that and you still have to Shawn Watson. Yeah. I the thing is like everybody in the NFC west. Good. None of those other divisions under the packers are off to a great start none of those other divisions. Really do anything no. The bears get the ten wins. The could I don't think they will. Houston okay, I'll take Houston in that. I coach to be fired it's got to be gazed. But think about Quinn Dan Atlanta let it could be three Atlanta's had A. Winning probability percentage in each of their three games ninety one percent in their favor. And they've lost. And they lost me sixteen parlor yesterday. So Dan coined the Falcons both dead to me. I have to look and see when both teams buys are dead to me. WHO's buys I don't care. Who whichever which assuming they don't have the same week whichever teams by his first. That's if it's okay. To be gay or Quinn Yeah you didn't. You didn't give me your pick tonight. I Lean Baltimore I don't love it. I think if from a from a pure gambling standpoint, I think this screams sort of do it in game. I'm GONNA, kind of hope. That Baltimore gets ahead I'm getting points with Kansas. City if I do it now the three and a half. So you want that live and maybe live I if Baltimore goes ahead and maybe even up by ten and nothing I'd get. Lives but I like the Travis Kelsey catches over five and a half Travis Kelsey score touchdown plus one fifteen dabble in Lamar Jackson with a rushing touchdown as well. Yeah. By that big game. But I'm with you, I liked that live live betting Baltimore go up ten or fourteen nothing make a lot of money by taking the chiefs live. Did you follow with the same amount of intrigue that I did the big showdown between Randy Bullock and Jacob? Kelly yesterday now that gave me life during the game watching your tweets. I mean, those guys you WanNa talk about haymakers being thrown in the law of the national. Football League. Yeah. You think mahomes and Lamar is going to go back and forth. Jake Elliott, Randy bullock yesterday back and forth tit for tat really sort of who give the edge to bullock had a kick that went out of bounds. Exactly Jake Elliott knows how to kick the ball back of the end. Yeah both were fine with their field goal tries and PhD's but bullock had really ended up being a critical mistake in the game. The kick out balance after the bengals go ten six, you're saying randy bullock lost us a second game w just say Oh boy. did He grant as watching the game with my wife yesterday? And Randy bullock charges out onto the field and she asked me she's like. What position does he played like? Kickers got a single digit number look at him. She's like look that Gutty looks like you might we try them at right tackle of why not? There was a shot of him late in the game yesterday I think when you were tweeting that he was pacing the. Cage Tiger I thought he was limping. It looked like he had a little bit of a limp I thought he was about to cry on TV again. So couple of Doug Peterson questions I, tweeted this as well. I'm a big proponent of this move. I come back the first time. I ever really made a big deal about this was the Hail Mary. Game. Bengals in Baltimore. Don't the Green Hail. Mary touchdown. Itself pulls them down to within down one. And I tweeted that day, this is twenty fourteen gopher. And my simple rationale there was a the defense is on its heels there. There's sort of a shock factor, right? Like the game is over throw a hail. Mary don't let yourself at the mercy of the coin toss don't give the ball to the other team. You have a chance to win the game right now go and do it. If I'm, an eagles fan today. I'm upset. The Doug Peterson when they score the touchdown doesn't go for it and I tweeted I go look. If I'm. If I have. A Chance of me losing the coin toss and borough gets the ball and he scores a touchdown I don't get it back. I can't live with that. I can live with the bengals defense which I thought. We have to talk about this did a lot of really good things yesterday I put this defense on its heels. They've just lost the lead I'm going for. I'm going for the win there I don't want. I. Don't want the game to come down to a coin toss. To ensure that I have the ball with a chance to win and I don't want to give borough chance to beat me. I'm going for the win their one hundred percent. And that is about a mentality and setting a message. And you do both of those things by going for it probably would have just dialed up a carson wentz drawl and walked in the end zone. So we don't know how to keep a quarterback in the pocket in big time of the game but I'm with you like if you're philly. How confident would you be to go seventy yards on a drive right when your offense is decimated with injury? No. Weapons Left, right? Yes. Go Win. And then we're not sitting here talking about two and one. No. Ameri the head more ammo for Jack Taylor on four thousand two. He should have gone forty fourth and to should stop running the second ten. But if I'm an eagles fan today because they didn't win the game and look their division is exceptionally winnable if they improved a one and to hunt yes. In that division, they need to be a with in that situation. I, think the right place to go for two and go for the. Win from more. There's a chance go do it. It's seventeen minutes after five o'clock Tony Pike Mo Egger Tony. Romo football show the rivers sportsbook Tony Mo- football show we're hanging out twin peaks in Westchester. All right. Still Ahead, we'll revisit some of the stuff we talked about with what the bengals couldn't yesterday, which is basically block for Joe Borough and as frustrating as yesterday was. Disillusioned as we are with some of the stuff happening on offense. I actually saw something I really liked on. We'll get to that we get to the Joe Mixing Search. Party. Till we'll do the Joe Mixing search as well. When we come back Bet rivers sportsbook tonio football show twin peaks in Westchester Espn. Fifteen thirty, Cincinnati sports station. Is Football brought to you in part by CME, pipeline and Sura Repair and by Skyline Chili on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the bengals. His our server. She gave us coasters getting our beer's she signed the coasters. Yeah. How about that? First Class? You really can't. I touch, you don't get it other points. By the weight which just occurred to me you said this to me that I am now I am to Zach, Taylor running the football on second and ten. What. James Repeat is to John Ross catching the ball can be an active. Yes. Because he james is the John Ross Guy. He is the you just told me off air. He is. He is going down with that ship. It's a rough day for James. He I haven't talked James since before the season started. To big time for me anymore. Yeah. Yeah you know he's with us is forgotten came from but. I mean, he's the John Ross Guy. He is still clinging to that. Yeah. Still just YEP. Grasping onto needs to be put in better situations was alone that he used needs needs to go find a new line of work correct. Go Go run track a new situation for you. Go Run the one, hundred yard, dash the problem with that is like yesterday when the bengals would run on second ten by the time I could get my phone in tweet. Yeah. I had already seen like six tweets issue about it. So means that when he when they run a second ten. I Dan they're gonNA, blow you up on twitter it'll happen and trust me I. Hope it works I do if you keep doing it enough at zero point yes. He's going to break off a forty yard run for a touchdown or something that's all well I'm here for you. But it's Do you think that the the disdain that some people have for John Ross is less about him and more about the disdain that people have for James could be it could be. The Guy. He's loyal man he's loyal. He is not going down with that. He's he I should say he is could have jumped ship he's not bailing. Yup He's not turning on him. He's not doing a one eighty. Every guy need someone like that in their corner. So let's say John Ross is playing for another team next year, which strikes me as a distinct possibility. Gone like sports illustrated, you watch watch him have a big game against the bengals. Game over what do you make of the utilization of? Joe Mixon. Joe Mixing Yeah running back funny. You should ask Joe Mixing the forty eight, million dollar man. When when the organization at some point got together and discussed Joe Mixon. You and I discussed if you're gonNA, pay a running back that much money. His utilization rate needs to go way up right right. GotTa find more ways to get him touches. There were games last year, he had single digit touches. and. So when you see four years and you see forty, eight, million dollars for a player. Okay he's GonNa ride them. They're going to they're going to give him the type of touches that you would expect they player like that to get and be used like Derrick Henry or Kamara Christian, McCaffrey or someone like that. Instead in a game yesterday, what I think is funny here it wasn't twenty one nothing. Wasn't twenty eight to three. The bengals were either winning or within a possession of winning the whole game. Get Seventeen carries. He was used twice in the passing game. For a guy that got forty, eight, million dollars and the most. Passes was productive? Yes and one of the most frustrating thing about Joe. Mixing. If you watch if it's third down and long he's off the field. And James. Did A podcast today James made the point of that was the case you should assigned devante Freeman for a lot less money. That's a good point and May Giovanni Bernardo third down back. You're paying a guy forty-eight, million dollars to play to downs. Which means okay either he can't play on third down. Because, he can't pick up blocks or they don't think he's good enough in the passing game yet, and either of those things would signify maybe don't pay him forty eight million dollars I was on the I was on the side of pay the man. I thought you pay Joe Mixing, you pair them with Joe Borough. But if you're going to pay him forty, eight million to give them seventeen carries in two targets. No. I'm out I, want take that I want to take that back because the way he's being utilized as not being utilized like you're paying him to be utilized question this may be a really stupid question. If. You WanNa. Take more shots Downfield, Is One way to do that having some sort of play action dimension to your offense? Yes. which they don't do right action. Max Protecting they have a two main route they sort of weirdly did it on the past Joe Mixing the gain yardage where it was just a quick screens quick stranger but he did sort of turned to Joe Yeah. I'm not even sure Joe made the right step, but he's he's. Not Joe. Wasn't play action, but it did for a brief second I think perhaps give the illusion that this was going to be a run play but this is not a big part of their offense. Yeah. So perhaps if you are a a a more and I hate to say more dedicated to the run because that means even more runs on second ten. But if you're if you're committed to running the football and then maybe even more effective running the ball which acquired the offense line to do its part, you could then run more play action and push on the field push down the field mark correct or move the. Pocket Mike connecting the right dots move the pocket because dropping straight back in the pocket you're not GonNa have time to throw down the field. That's a reality of the bengals right now. Right I. Wish I had the for me because I saw it. I was walking out the door today Aaron Rodgers on play action passes and moving the pocket. Yes. Completing an insane amount of passes and they do it a ton. Yes. Jared Dolphin in the rams, do it a ton and that's likely because they're the twenty fifth ranked offensive line in the NFL. Demanding thing and I said this earlier the Bengals game plan you would think they have a top ten offensive line. They don't move the pocket they don't run a ton of play action. They don't screen like if you're getting ready to play the Bengals as a defensive Lineman, you're ready to rush up the field as fast as you can. You would think the bengals would counter with three or four screens a game, and they don't I just I just don't know what goes into the mind of the game planning right now with how the bengals run things and a lot of that has to do with helping out Joe, which would be giving Joe Mixing the ball or using him in play action football. I will I will look this up there. Are there are People who chart sort of things I? How many times would you guess the day in three games plus overtime? Yeah. How many times would you guess they`ve Run Plaques Four. Maybe fifteen twenty. Yeah, I was GONNA say in the fifteen I mean it should be like double that. Yeah. because. When you now granted when you roll out, you can't have two receivers holding each other. I'm telling you most a buddy of mine. Texted me after that play and said I don't understand our offense they did that twice. But the one roll out of the were successful Boyd and green are basically shadowing each other. and Aj can't get free and again like all he's gotTa do. The guy covering him, his flat-footed Yup all he's got to put one foot in the ground and just go in any direction. Run run, run run run west I'm more surprised toward the quarterback. I'd with how good Joe. Borough has been extending the play that they haven't been able to hit the ball down the field. Yeah. Because the defensive to cover a lot longer. And it's like I. Don't know if you can't get separation or what but it's unbelievable that as long as he's pleasure developing that more guys aren't coming over like we saw t higgins yesterday he i'll tell you what and we've sort of glossed over today for obvious reasons he showed a lot of toughness. And do just fun to watch. Yeah, he is. He's everything I thought he was going to be. What a game yet he's natural. He's a leader. It seems effortless when he's moving out of the pocket innovating this stuff and again, no preseason games he's he's good right now and he's still in what should be preseason football. If. We could get him any help. I mean. The scary thing for me is he's he feels like one of those once in A. Decade or two decades types talent. Like a Mahomes or like Lamar? Jackson. What both of those teams do though for him for their quarterbacks, they built around him Baltimore change their whole system and went all in on the Mark Jackson the chiefs and what they do, when all in on Patrick Mahomes, the bengals draft Joe Borough, and just sat around and said I will be all right. We're good. We don't need anything else. that. That to me is maddening as a Bengal fan on how you can sit around and just not improve at your worst position on the offensive side of the ball when you take the number one overall pick and by all intensive purposes as soon as they got the pick, the knew who it was. said that right there was never any thought. So you had all that time to, okay. What linemen we want to focus on and they said, no, no, no to free agency, a trade or the draft. And now when they doubled down on that now, who's accountable who has to answer the questions now when the offensive line is as bad We just go about. We'll just stay quiet right that's the issue but Joe Boroughs. Fantastic. All Right as advertised I am going to continue to be positive. because. There is an area, the team that I I'm encouraged by. The positive I really do you do and we'll get to the positives and the negatives from the bearcats game on. Saturday Cincinnati beating army. Gained against the USF. The bearcats bearcats who beat a top twenty, five opponent dropped in the polls. Dropped in one of the perspect- Cincinnati Reds said it best? Yeah. I really thrilled about those shirts and then I saw like there's respect Saint Louis Milwaukee got that was like A. That might be our thing and then I realized that Nah not not in Manford Ball. Not. Even. Five thirty, he's Tony Pike Komo Eggert sportsbook plutonium. Oh football show live from twin peaks and Westchester on. ESPN FIFTEEN THIRTY CINCINNATI SPORTS STATION You've been listening to football in the ninety brought to you in part by with rivers sportsbook on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the bengals. Twenty five from six river sportsbook Tony Romo football show twin peaks unless gesture by the way the Mark Steyn, show coming up at six. On Espn fifteen thirty Monday night football on ESPN fifteen thirty as well chiefs. And the Baltimore Ravens were hanging out twin peaks Westchester. We hear every single Monday for the Tony and Mo- show. We'll. We'll jump back into the bengals he got asked on twitter Real Quick Bobby Harder Cedric Oh boy he would you take right now. To do why block block for who play right tackle for the bengals? Yes. Or you get oh boy, he bobby heart or randy bullock at right tackle randy bullock deal because either he could block the guy or it would be funnier watching him get destroyed then. Right true. Would you also have them kick? Absolutely. So let's say let's like hard he book. Let's say it's like thirty nine and the dude just runs them over and sack borough. But now it's fourth down they could still kick a field goal in does he peal himself up off the turf to? Go this attempt to feel S. let's talk about the bearcats before we jump back into the bengals. Twenty four to ten victory over army. That is an army team that is proficient at running the football in the bearcats. I thought did a pretty good job. The triple option is something they should be prepared for because navy is a regular on their schedule. and. Frankly, they frankly they armies offense scored three points. This defense is going to be really good and maybe they weren't tested that much by their first two opponents but I still think we believe that they're going to be hard to throw against us and they got dudes on their defense who could start for a lot of schools in the American CIA fast like watching them on tv up defenses. They've speed everywhere what I think held a lot of us back in getting really deep into the conversations about undefeated season. Conference Championship and possibly in the College Football playoff which. I gotta be honest with you now that the big ten and. PAC twelve, we're GONNA come back. Just think is is even more of a pipe dream but. I've stopped short of all that because I'm not sure that in the hard games. When and if they need big time throws from Desmond Ritter. Yep. They're going to be able to get them He. Does wasn't terrible on Saturday. But he had some really bad moments either where he missed wide open receivers, I mean why open dues? They have a upgraded the talent at that position and yet they haven't really been able to expand what we thought. They could do the picky through was a bad boss especially in the first half, there were a bunch of really. On, the pitch on the option is a bad decision the decision on the pitch which against the team to practices that I'm not sure why you're against the option to versus option. I like Dez a lot. He's won a lot of games but when they're playing UCF by the way with Dylan Gabriel looked fantastic on Saturday and Gabriel throws four touchdown passes over four hundred yards. I just don't know the can win a tool. Yeah, he's. He's won eleven games in his first two years and you can't take any of that from how he's been fine. He's also been the beneficiary of some really good defenses and he's been the beneficiary of Michael, Warren Joe Zaida Guevara who are too unreal security blankets their NFL type type players. And for years now does Ritter has kind of been asked to manage the game. He's one game stolen under one hundred yards. He's one games with his legs at some point this year you're going to have to win by outscoring team as good as the defense is. Whether IT'S SMU or Memphis or UCF, you have to outscore a team in for. Rob or not even the outscore them. You're down fourteen ten or something like that. Right? The game no timeouts does has to make throws. I have doubts that he's able to make. It's one thing to miss a receiver to a game, but it's the times when he does third lung, which would move the chains. Guys Open down the field which would be a touchdown. That takes drives away and that takes points away and when you play the best teams in the League. Zero margin for error for that. So look this this was made at at Camp this year does Ritter looked the part. It was also made it camp that because Ben Brian got time last year and was capable that the leash shouldn't be in probably isn't as long as you're debtor. So. I think there's a little bit more pressure than we think on desert right now and I think he's either going to respond welcome that or he's going to start pressing a little bit but. With an improved American athletic conference and dreams of going to a place that this team has never gone, you can't miss the throws at you missed on Saturday and expect to be there as good as that defense is as good and another, you look thirty five Russia's for sixty nine yards that's not gonna get it like the previous years they just run the ball for two fifty. If you can't do that, you got to be able to make the throws and does has to do that I wouldn't mind this week against us you USF. For them to give Ben Brian Plan series. Not to where it's like Dez looking over his shoulder like you'd better do something this drive. But like I drive of the second quarter, we're going to give Benadryl and opportunity. So, it's not a pressure thing but start giving Ben Bryant does start because. This team's GonNa go undefeated at some point, ben is going to have to make some big plays and. As a passer. Not hasn't made passes to help win games. But as a passer, I think we if you've watched as game in game out and you and I have you and I would have said two years ago he's still developing as a quarterback. Yes. Last year it was he's developing as a passer. This is not supposed to be for the team itself if the goals are going to be realized. It's not as much about development for Desmond. Ridder as a college passer and therein lies I wrote a thing with Justin Williams that was three thousand words in at the crux of what I wrote about was. I just I sit on my hands a little bit about him I I love Desmond. You talk about a good dude winner good kid winter at all the good things you could say. To injury last later injury tough guy and yeah maybe they're better enough at wide receiver that it's going to bring out more in him and it's a two games sample size but I watched before you see played I watched ucf, and let's face it whether it's in the regular season when they play down there or possibly in a conference championship game. If you're clinging to the idea, this team's GonNa go undefeated you might have to beat them twice now your defense may take care of tailing a Dylan Gabriel they had to wide receivers go over one hundred yards. He was throwing the ball all over the place maybe Ecu is not that good. But. You have to beat that team with that quarterback, which could mean that either in a critical situation or over the game as a whole, your QB has to be up to whatever dealing Gabriel does. I just don't know if has can do that Yup gotTA. GotTa gotta be able to clear up the the the MRS, and you've got to run the ball more but look sold all across college football this week good teams losing two teams that they should have beat the bearcats win a game they're supposed to win and you can't take that away they're. Starting to American Athletic Conference would much rather talk about this. Then some of the issues after a win and. Hope hopefully, they still play a game on Saturday USF had to pause activities last week because of Notre Dame's a Kobe outbreak. But but yeah, there's this season is going to be judged by how do they do against UCF, SMU and possibly meant. And that's putting a lot on does. So all right from bengals standpoint I will say this we've crushed him but the offensive line, a lot of offensive stuff. Granted I was Lu-. Ruma wouldn't have gotten cute at the end of the first half yesterday and felt like the secondary in particular late in the game was on its heels. But on the guy that usually complains about linebacker. I didn't like it when I saw against Cleveland because they couldn't tackle Kareem. Hundred Chubb Space. Logan. Wilson gets a pick yesterday. I saw McCain Davis gator that I like a lot from the linebacking group that I like I see a unit that has more speed. I like what Davis gaither did to bounce back because the ball wince Mr Sanders down the line. Where he went right around Justice gaither improved and they tried to go back to that point. He noted it well get the linebackers look faster. Now, there hasn't been a ton of times where they've been asked to make a play one on one in space like you'll see against the Baltimore Ravens and those type teams but as far as an athletic standpoint, they jump out more so than they did last year. I'm with you on the the linebacking unit that Carlson had really good game yesterday. I thought he flew around on defensive line and again. You can't pick apart what the defense did because those another winning performance from the defense they played three games. Defense has done enough twice to win. Offense has it helped the Carson Wentz. Thanks yeah really. But as a whole I didn't have many gripes, and again I'm the Guy I've now turned complaining about the middle of the field and the lack of speed at linebacker. It's now running the ball on second and ten. There's always be something that I. Now that you've said, this Robinson's GonNa have like two hundred. All perpetual effort is GonNa like. WHO's caught a touchdown is not made a huge impact for the Jaguars Oh wait till this other. I. For nine catches one, hundred, four yards to. Running meetings this week like Maroon sit down. I. Got this. and Jay Gruden as well. Man Tyler for. Girls. You know what? We'll talk about this a little bit later for the Bengals pre game show Gardner Minhsiu. We Watch, timid ECU. And I thought guy, this guy's pretty good. Yeah. I. Didn't have him as a weekend the week out starting quarterback in the NFL. nope. He's got the whole feel about them. The vibe that he gives off like he's trying too hard but. He's making plays. Yeah. He's giving him chances to win if tyler I for scores like the game winning touchdown. Against the Bengals at Paul Brown stadium. Yeah It'll be it'll be that, and then the bengals have a chance to go back down and score and we'll run really cool. Offensive Formation drew sample blocks of defensive end in the end comes around and sacks borough in the game the thing drew sample. Yes. Your sample has proven to be what we were told. He couldn't be which I thought. He was going to have a bigger role in the passing game well, yes but like we were told this guys, you can't catch passes he's proven to be when they use them a pretty competent pass catcher. Can't block anybody block I thought that was a scream. Hey. Let the guy go and then turn around it was like what? Yeah. Then they showed the them like old our tackles can't do the job. So instead of helping, we just go one on one I remember that night they drafted him how many times I got pat on the head on. He'll be he'll be fees a fine blocker. Wu, there are youth football coaches. That come into a situation and camp block like in youth football. You see like another guy on the defense it's like big. Yeah. So you just double team him can we just double team a defensive end? Chip. With the running back or the tight end. But you know what? Paul Dana wrote a really good piece after the first game it's sort of illustrated the push poll right? Because if what's borough good at seeing guys downfield identifying going through progressions younger to the ball quickly five. Wide Right but five wives means five guys in the block. Those five guys were blocking a very good. That's what do you do but that's the maddening. Draft, Joe Borough, and you even did research visited with Lsu took some of their playbook. If you know all of that and you know what may job or a really good was five-man protection wouldn't you do something to shore up your five-man protection? You would like that that's what's so maddening to me. It's like well, we gotta run more five-man. Let's bring bobby hardback to run. That blends Joe of the lsu playbook had the second and ten runs. I didn't see that I did I saw like Clyde Edwards Hilar-. Out of the backfield on how many second and ten runs and they haven't Lsu last. I need to chart. It's twelve away from all the music song. That's show's over all. We couldn't get enough in for a three hour show to discuss the bengals please please be Jacksonville Ross. We're doing a six hour show next Monday you're doing. Next Monday. No I'll be drinking here for six hours. Sounds good. Tony is back for cincy three, six four. They stopped serving ten it'll road out. Yeah figure it out the reds, Indians Bengals, Brown bear cats, and Buckeyes all playing kickoff watch. Mike DeWine. Let's go figure it out. Let's Go Kentucky. They're serving tollway bien is open to like three on. Let's make it happen. Slept these businesses do they're doing? He's listening right now. I'm sure he is we have to go. Tomorrow we're at. that. Wow. We just wanted to stay open later. The bengals the Jaguars that's all I'm it's all million we do have to go on the mark stoops show is coming up next. Tony since he three sixty at noon. We are loaded with baseball stuff tomorrow at three or five getting set for threads. We hope you join US listen tomorrow because I'm sure you won't be on. Wednesday. Sixty to one or what's the rest has been the rivers sportsbook Tony Romo football show from twin, beach in Westchester on ESPN two two. Hi I'm Carla Hall you might remember me from top chef or Netflix's crazy delicious. My life has been nothing short of a series of twists and turns, but through the successes hand the adversity I always leaned into my personal motto. Say. Yes to everything life throws your way. In my new podcast say, yes with Carla Hall I'm sitting down with some of the most inspiring celebrity personalities as we explore the challenges and how they got to their. Yes. In the first episode out chat with Kristen Bell about everything from how she faces being a working mom in. Hollywood. In the public eye to the liberation, we can feel when we just admit that sometimes we just don't know and there's even more great moments to come with interviews with Billy Porter Martha Stewart Gretchen Rubin and many more subscribe to say yes with Carla Hall on Apple podcasts spotify or listen at free on the wondering APP. Wondering feel the story.

Zach Taylor bengals football NFL Joe Borough Cincinnati Bengals Joe John Ross Westchester Joe Mixing Guy Duke Tobin Aj Green twitter Marvin Lewis Cincinnati bengals Thomas Tyler Boyden Aj ESPN Joe Mixon Carson Wentz