20 Episode results for "John Mary"

Dr. John F Murray Speaks with Jeff DeForrest and Lesley Visser about Tiger Woods on FOX Sports Radio

Sports Psychology Podcast

07:50 min |

Dr. John F Murray Speaks with Jeff DeForrest and Lesley Visser about Tiger Woods on FOX Sports Radio

"Joining us right now is renowned sports psychologists out of West Palm Beach. This guy is quoted all over the place. I'm more often than you. I think at this point in time it just anytime. There's an issue they talked to Dr John Mary, and we're happy to have months. Six forty W F T L, Dr John how are you my friend real pleasure to share your microphone to you? Guys. Have the Mike? How's it going? Hey, you know, it's going well, and I'm seri- that you are phone has been ringing off the hook. Tell me what right now, do you think tiger is most concerned with and what should he be most concerned with a really tough time for golf. I have had a lot of calls. I mean, the whole empire has been shattered. And I don't really know if he's even thinking clearly right now, he's probably still in a state of shock. He's probably somewhere island. He purchased somewhere. Just you know, trying to get away from it all but eventually he's going to have to come back. And you know, what we keep hearing about over? And over again is off course off field issues. I mean, this is going on and on and think about Chris Henry's relationship issues when you talk about those things you gotta realize that impacts. Performance impacts, excuse me affects success this is much as anything else. So you really you really highlight. What goes on in sports when you see these kind of stores? Seriousness on John had been teasing Defoe here. But do you view this as it is a sexual addiction there now unconfirmed reports that he might be going to the meadows the sexual rehab facility in Arizona, or do you think that that he's just a young man with a lot of money and a lot of opportunity, and that cannot be classified as sexual addiction. Well, you know, it's hard for me to say exactly what's going on without seeing closely. However, I've heard from people that know him, well that, you know, we've played this thing about Tiger Woods being this incredibly great person. That's acquaint squeaky clean. I guess is the best way to put it. But most people who know him really well say he's just in LA kid, and he's very much a strict kid much more than we realize, unfortunately. So I think it's part of it is what anybody would do face with that opportunity as bad as that sounds as horrible as that sounds in. It is wrong. What he did? However, we also have to see that. We don't put these people up on a pedestal so high that it's it's. Part of our culture to do that that we drop them down immediately who's more psychotic right now. And I mean, it's interesting. I'm watching the golf channel. And literally, Dr John I thought I saw Don Carter dusting off a bowling ball. I mean, they they were the guys that made this, you know, huge blunder in terms of building Tiger Woods up to the point where he became the game of golf. I I don't know that he wasn't gonna become that anyway because of his overall ability at the game, and in fact that dominated but they pretty much put all their eggs in one basket here. I mean, how do these people recover? Well, I think there could be attempt to really vilify tight, which is probably not that unjustified. But in order to protect the game. They may try to say well that was just Tigers faults and so forth, but we do this all the time and sports sponsored this all the time. And I think we need to bring it out out in the media to show people. How ridiculous it is at times. Well with all that being said and everybody's concern. What is tiger going to do? It seems like we've seen scenarios like this before not exact circumstances. But even Magic Johnson. Sure who admitted to I don't know that he admitted to it. But those obviously had various infidelities while married contracted the HIV virus, and is now a beloved character. Nobody seems to remember any of that now. Now, we had the added thing where where you thought. Wow, this guy's got a deadly disease. So there was going to be some sympathy for him. But isn't it possible to Tiger Woods comes back in about a year returns admits that maybe had some problems says I wish you guys would just judge me as the man I am now, and and all is forgiven for the most part? Well, it's going to happen much sooner than that for tiger sanity. I think he needs to play golf. That's what he does. I think a really honest to goodness press conference. I mean, he's never going to be able to get complete forgiveness for this. But come out and say, look, you know, I made a mistake. I'm getting some help. I'm I'm seeing some people whatever and then to make some kind of comment about our society. I mean, we're we're we're doing things that hurt these people in let's say that he's not the one that's totally responsible for this. But to make some. Kind of statement that hey, guys, you know, stop building people up. So you can tear them down. That's what I would think he should do. Do you think along that line of what does it say about our society has our society? Now, come and anybody in the public is has got to realize that your reputation is only as good as the nearest cell phone. It's so true. I mean, everything now a post nine eleven is being in a Twitter tweeted and watch with with a cellphone camera. And I mean, we're really living in a huge fish bowl. And so in many ways, I think we're gonna slow adjust to that and become not more accepting of bad things that happen. But just more aware of that as a reality. I think is what's happening to Dr John Murray. Sports psychologist, the cell phone has become the modern day little blue dress. It just has. You don't wanna leave anything lying around? And you almost can't help it from a psychological standpoint. And this is a story that will undergo some analysis, and it's not uncommon in sport. But the Cincinnati Bengals our team that was having a very good season. They lost. Chris Henry to injury during the course of the year. They seem to have a genuine affection for a guy that was perceived to be someone of a bad guy. Especially prior to this season. It looked like he was turning his life around. How difficult is that? I mean, what kind of approach you always wonder how a team is going to react. We saw this with Yukon earlier this year, they're football team to a tragedy that occurs like that. So soon before they're about to go back on the playing field again depressing show today. Sorry, guys. Yeah. I mean, they aren't. Yeah. I think what you're gonna see you're going gonna see grieving at the individual level as well as at the team level. And so there's a natural process, especially when somebody young guys like that that that people go through when somebody passes away or is giving a terminal illness or something like that you have to just realize that it's going to be an adjustment. And hopefully, you know, they're they're already putting some kind of label or number on their jerseys to commemorate him into play in honor of him. And that's something that's always very healthy to do. And yet he he was perceived completely differently by his teammates than the media gave them credit for. Tiger scenario. Tell me what you think it says psychologically about all the women involved that they were not ashamed and wanted to keep quiet, but instead in their own minds hearts and souls thought this would be great to go public. I really don't know if they could think that Leslie, but maybe ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars for a media spot would be more of a motivating factor for that. It's just disgraceful. I mean in plus we've only seen what was fourteen people came out fourteen women came out, and there's probably that's just the tip of the iceberg, obviously. But right there, it's just it's a mess all around, and you know, noth- nothing we can say about that as good. Hopefully, there'll be something that people can take from this and realize that they need to work on their their relationships. Dr John what media outlets? Are you not currently featured on the great Rick Haro show? We've seen you. Quoted loaded magazines, worldwide publishing your theses on various things that go on psychologically in sport. You're all over the place. Well, no you and Leslie are my heroes. I'm still trying to you know, make it up the ladder here. And I enjoyed the Spanish the challenge. That's what life's all about. It's the it's the pursuit except pursuit of that national radio show some day that that that keeps me going. You know, if it takes fifty years, I'll do it or television show. I I love that pursue. That's what it's all about. It. Sounds good. Thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it you John sticker. Dr John Murray.

Dr John golf Tiger Woods Dr John Murray Chris Henry Dr John Mary Tigers Leslie West Palm Beach LA Mike Dr John I Twitter Magic Johnson John Cincinnati Bengals bowling Arizona
The Giants Try to Pick up the Pieces Following Pat's Exit

Boomer & Gio

18:49 min | 10 months ago

The Giants Try to Pick up the Pieces Following Pat's Exit

"All right here we go me bank studio the final day of Twenty Nineteen boomer age. Geo Show without G will be back on Thursday so I sit thin with boomer esiason until ten o'clock a lot to do today all revolving around the NFL. Of course we've got the news yesterday about Pat Shurmur. We heard John Mary yesterday. Stephen Stephen Tissue as well as Oh Adam gay spoke to we can talk some jets as well but it's going to be all football for the next four hours. Maybe some hockey too. You never know. Good morning good. Morning boomers greater and You know yesterday listening to John Mara talk about the giants and what he sees as the future of the giants. I thought he made a lot of sense for me. Now I'm not not a giant fan and I get tormented by giant fan friends. I get their tax. I get their anger. I get their frustration. Their embarrassment harassment. I I can't think of any more adjectives other than those three that. Describe the people in my life who loved the New York giants now. My Dad was huge giant. He loved love the giants. And that was back when they sucked back in the seventies and everything so you know it's interesting how I thought John Merrill laid it out yesterday and he said a lot of things that made a lot of sense to me but then again I've been in the building so I kinda understand what he's talking about as opposed to being like you know. I'm not in the ranger buildings. When the Rangers Rangers lose to the flyers? I get pissed I got angry. I get mad and I become basically you know. You can't even approach me for a good hour after the game because I see the game a certain way and it's through biased is. I'm very frustrated so I kind of look at the giants kind of thing. I kind of absorb all the giant fans in my life and I kind honestly. Okay guys let me see if I can figure this out and give you some sense of where they're going and the thing that John Mara talked about yesterday that nobody ever ever talks about. Everybody just thinks that a general manager and coach come in and they just sit in their seats and they accept everybody. That's underneath them. And the way that the a a particular team has done business well in this case. That's not the case. because when they hired Dave gettleman they told Dave gettleman. Not only. Do you have to a fixed a roster but you also have to fix the way that we do business underneath the football team and how we support the football team through through scouting through analytics through everything else. which the I guess? According to John Maher it sounds like the giants have gone through a major transformation in that regard over the last two years years and in the middle of all of that and and this is an issue and I even brought up. Yesterday is the health of one day gettleman and and combined with his age at does he have the energy to continue to do this and I'm sure obviously by what John Mara said. Yesterday that Dave Gettleman in his eyes does have the ability to do this and Dave gettleman get them in was a part of the giant family. That wants to super bowls so they wanna give him the time. The fix this whole thing. I feel now that in my heart that listening to John Mary yesterday that he did not want to fire Pat Shurmur now. This is just me speculating. I don't have any inside information. It's just meet listened to him talk and maybe it's the the fact that he hates firing people wanna fire people especially good people like Pat Shurmur and the rest of those coaches that put all the hard work and then when I read the reaction action from the players. And here's who ally manning is you let manning is the ultimate professional ally. Manning said how disappointed he was that at this. Coaching Staff got fired and this coaching staff was the coaching staff that was charged with moving on from him. That tells you all I need it tells me all. I need to know how good the coaching staff was. If Eli Manning is going to say stuff like that because he doesn't have to say that he can go out you know kicking and screaming if he really wanted to and he didn't do that and and then the other guy who I thought was amazing. This is why you have to love this guy and this is why giant fans should hope that this guy becomes what Dave get them and said he he w- he will become when he drafted him and Saquon Barkley and Saquon Barkley is an amazing amazing compliment to Pat Shurmur and his staff yesterday yesterday and I thought he stood above most in terms of his professionalism and how he handles himself and this is only two years in the NFL and this is after being injured most of this year and finally coming on at the end of the season when he got healthy. So your all I can tell you is that I understand now why John Marijuana to keep Dave gettleman. I totally totally get Jerry. I know giant fans are not happy about it. I think a majority of giant fans are unhappy about it but I think he is put in place to kind of fix the the problems that were there prior to him arriving. And I think he's right in the middle of that rebuild in so many different levels and he's GonNa have a big chance now because as you point out he's got all this money to spend and and he's GonNa have a big free agent year and more draft. You know high draft pick again. They'll pick fourth and he's been good with Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. It's been fine Slayton's been great. We've talked about him mm-hmm so we'll have that opportunity. I think I think you know the baker should should turn out and he'll be better next year too. I mean you would think and you just hope that would some of the pieces that he decided added to keep some of the some of the pieces that Jetson. Let's face it. Everybody doesn't think about those things. But I would say bringing in Zeitler getting ridden Olivier Vernon that that is like like A. That's a that's a win. That's a major win for the New York. Giants getting rid of SAQUON NOT SAQUON Barkley. Odell Beckham Junior was a win for the giants. Those sometimes did you win by subtraction and in those cases I believe that has been the case for the giants but they got to get through all of this. You know they they have to get on the other side side of the rebuild and rebuild essentially for me anyway. It started a year too late because they got the quarterback in year two of them in year one but I understand how dave was so so smitten with saquon Barkley plus. They wanted to give ally one final year to restock around him offensively and it didn't work okay. So since it doesn't work now they have to start over. That's exactly what this year was next year. I just hope I hope whoever it is that they bring in here whether it be Mike McCarthy Matt Role Jason Garrett if he does come Humphry from the Dallas Guy Somebody that is not going to lose sight of how important this this league is when it comes to Daniel Joe and everything you say is spot spot on. I have no issue with that anything you say what John Mara did say history in terms of why Pat Shurmur was. Let go after all the Nice things he said about him and all true probably. They didn't win enough to tell me about a rebuild. All you want and that's that's fair but again it's it's like repeating ourselves from yesterday you lose nine straight games and entire franchise record. Something's gotTa give and I do believe and I am on an island with as I do believe if they beat the eagles yesterday he still head coach. I really do which sounds ridiculous. Because you're talking about thirty two games. You might decision based on one but I think had. They won that game over the Eagles yesterday Sunday and had every chance to do it by the way I still don't head. Coach fumbled snap until a fumble fumble snapping and things got outta whack completely out of whack but if you listen to John Mara and you know part of what he said about Gettleman cattleman explains why he stays and he talked about him getting sick. And you WanNa give them another opportunity because he lost half the year battling cancer. It's right in the middle of the refill. Sure thing but if you're looking at the head coach you've got an angry. Let's be honest and very angry. Fan Base losing losing they four and twelve in another coach you again but stocked better with talent and younger and now with some experience you know there are there. Are Things in games you can point to that. Might tell you maybe Pat Shurmur not long for this as a head coach. Maybe he suited to be a coordinator because they lost games in puzzling fashion games. That were winnable. Whatever roster said pointed out the games nine in a row is it asking too much one eight now I understand that now? You're you're driving home yesterday and I am. Not What does not disagreeing with you. What I am saying however is that everybody wants to compare themselves like the steelers? The steelers win steelers have a culture. The steelers don't fire their coaches and they don't and they may have a bad year here there and by the way there are only four teams in the NFL that have had winning records over the last four consecutive years. Okay and obviously the Patriots are one of those teams. I'll find I think the Tennessee titans are one of those. Ah But they've been four years in a row they've been nine and seven right. You know so it's not like it's easy to win the NFL especially when you're going through a transition especially especially when you're asking a cow. Maria Sam Darnold. Abakar may feel a Josh Rosen. Even more Jackson got started on a a playoff bound on team late in the season and he took over because Joe FLACCO got hurt so a little bit different story there but you see what they did with Lamar Jackson this year. They turned the offense over to him. They made it about him and look where they are so now to me. The giants got to do the same thing for Daniel Jones. Just like the jets have tried to do the same thing for for Sam Darnold. That's why they brought in an offense coats so I would think you know Matt role is from here you know he. He had been a year with the giants coach Temple. He's down a Baylor. He's been very very successful at all those levels. I get all that stuff. I think he gets the whole New York. I am thing I can understand why he would be some of the local media favorites. That's that's that's certainly on his resume that would make me feel that way to Mike. McCarthy's a guy that obviously that you have to take seriously because of his success in Green Bay and the thing about Mike McCarthy you know he's a button guy you know he'll come in he'll do it the giant way and the interesting thing about him and I fill saying this yesterday off the I don't know if he said it on on the air but the thing about Mike McCarthy is he will run a practice where everybody is wearing the right clothing on the practice field. There's no individuals out during the practice though there's still that old western Pa way of doing things when it comes to football. which if you're a hockey guy there's A? There's a Canadian way of doing things. When you play hockey you like to have that little bit of culture that is in your locker room and all that kind of stuff? So let's think Mike McCarthy is so I would think that they'll obviously reach out to him and talk to him. A whole Josh mcdaniels things I think is a pipedream because and I don't WanNa make a big deal out of this but there are certain guys who are not GonNa WanNa come here and work with Dave Gettleman Miss. Just that's just the way it is because they see themselves as bigger than him or no more than him or want to bring somebody with them on the personnel side. That can now create the Patriot. Way Wherever Josh mcdaniels goes that's the thing and what is the Patriot way while it's not just on the practice field and in the football all field. It's it's the building of underneath the roster just like what is trying to do with the giants. John Mara was talking about yesterday. So that is I. Think a pipe dream. I think it would be more of a McCarthy or a Matt rule type of thing unless somebody else shakes loose that we can't think of or we're not thinking of right now but I would say that those two guys are probably the leaders in clubhouse and Eric Vietnamese name is popping up to you mentioned him yesterday as well. It's interesting show. Eric was a team mate of mine. I don't know if you knew that the jets now now the bengals my last year so he was using the backfield with me. cajanek Carter and Corden and Eric was like our third third down back. He was a special teams Maven and he would call out the past protections when he was on the phone with me before I would so he knows what's going on. He's Andy's right right hand man now out in Kansas City. Andy is obviously endorsing him. I talked to him about four weeks ago when I went up to go it of you Patrick Mahomes for the NFL today. And and I asked him about his. You know his experiences last year doing some interviews. He goes yeah. You know what I need to go in there and tell them what I want. Not what I think they WANNA here and I think that's what owners are looking for. They're looking for men that can stand up in front of fifty three guys and build leader have credibility and and Create a clear message and when things get Harry on the sidelines. You know panicked not gonNA ensue. Need A man's command. The room is what you need one hundred percent and and they're hard to find these days because of the group of men that you're actually are leading. It's a different group. It's different than we played back when we play. The coaches has had a little bit more control over us with the money that is being made today the guaranteed dollars the individuality of the player in today's world a little bit different to handle. It's a lot different. Social Media Aspect of fan has a big voice whether it's right or wrong. It's a fact that it's on their teams here. Teams teams read it. And you know the the mob mentality works a lot of cases and I think that's part of this too. I mean the you know the slings and arrows. Throwing a Pat Shurmur the last month month. Damn we're seeing well the giants ownership and happened to see what's happening Dave gettleman now too. You know. Now it's him but that will die down and once the draft. The Free Agency begins but shortly from the giant fan. Because you can't have another five win season. Are there for one season. It'd be better next year cycle. You're going to have three well. You have to now. Most likely the cowboys are going to join the redskins and the giants three teams changing coaches in the NFC. That's amazing and that's that is similar relate to that after they met the It wasn't like Oh yesterday and I guess he will. He's under contract for another week or so or two weeks. But I thought it was we I listen to him on his radio. Spots is a strain. Yeah I know and I know Stephen and Jerry Jones both canceled their radio spots right. So that that's a whole nother aspect down there. I look I think Jerry Jones sounds really and I read all these things about Jerry and his relationship with Jason. They've been together for over twenty years. And and Jerry has a very very high regard for Jason as a person when you listen to those players. Talk about Jason Garrett. It's the same way that the giant players talking about Pat Shurmur. So it's not like like I thought the giant players turned on Ben Ben mcadoo and the people in that building felt it and saw it and how to do something about it that that was not the case. I think this firing of Shurmur is more of a tissue side of the giants ledger. This is definitely were Steve Tisch. Now I said I'm going to get more involved to me this this. This is what this reeks of which is an interesting dynamic. Now because that's not been the case really coming Out and saying I want more involvement is interesting for John Mara now going forward how they divvy up the responsibility and what does that mean. Well is more say I e Aseel Aseel. He's going to Walmart. Say He's going to want to have more input and I think you know you probably has people in his life lamenting the fact that the giants now are. I'm I'm just putting words out there that I would think that somebody may say him. Your team's embarrassment. We've heard it. This is a disgrace giants Blah Blah. Meanwhile I mean you keep changing and changing and changing as the Knicks have proven. You'll never amount to anything so now hopefully again I say this every time I'm so sick and tired teams firing coaches around here and general managers. We give a guy two years and then next thing you know you've got to run them out of here. Well you know what would have needed to have done to avoid this if you will will kinda will Christopher Johnson. Did you know as their again to in to football team and talking with a lot of confidence after I think it was. Washington was the second one when they won back to back games with Daniel Jones and they felt real good about things while they lost a couple of games they're against good teams and then had the slide. They would have needed to Okinawa. And listen listen. He's our coach through twenty twenty. They didn't do that. And then things spiraled out of control Christopher Johnson Johnson we own the jets jets. Nobody's telling the Johnson family. What do you have co ownership of the giants and one size which has been quiet for for ever? Since they became partners. I guess on the football side of things now all of a sudden WANNA get involved and but that wasn't the case in October. We didn't hear them. Maybe it was. We didn't hear it. Someone could've said something in October when the slide was in progress. Yeah I think it all started when Steve Tisch won the award at the march of dimes. Luncheon that's one of the three weeks ago yes when it all Kinda started bubbling and all that other stuff so now that so now. That's in the mix now for giant fans. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing you know we'll have to wait. You can see all I know is that you have another guy. That's probably being influenced by people in his life. That are say he got to do something to you. Got To do something it's like. I I feel like Jim Dolan's life I feel like everybody's Jim Dolan's life is telling him you gotTa do this for the next. You GotTa do that for the next. And then he changes and moves course and fires. This guy brings in another guy and the next thing you know. The team sucks again. Let me ask you this though. Do you not believe that. Part of the problem Pat Shurmur had was past record past his track record as a head coach. Of course this is nine hundred ninety three and they also said September. Twenty three is going to be now known as Pat Shurmur Day because he was nine and twenty three in Cleveland and nine and twenty three in New York I know. Oh yes jerry. I know it's hard to action business but I could also make argument on the other side that when they hired Pat Shurmur you know they were coming out of the ugliness of the Eli. Manning gave Ben mcadoo thing and they wanted to give you live for some reason for some reason they wanted to give you lie another year. Okay which I thought. Okay you get it. That's why they spent all the money on the offensive line. That's why they drafted Saquon Barkley. That's why they kept Odell Beckham junior gave him a new contract. You know they wanted to load up. Forgive Eli is much of an opportunity to be successful as he possibly could with veteran players and play makers and you can't sit here and tell me two years ago when Pat Shurmur. I got here that that wasn't the case so he had inherited the job though he knew what he was getting himself into. I know I know these. All these coaches take the jobs knowing that eventually they're going to get fired eventually unless you're jeff unless you're Marvin Lewis bill ballot check. Mike Tomlin. You're not getting fired on toward finally goes fifteen sixteen seventeen years whatever in the case of valujet twenty years but I even he was fired prior to the success that he had up in New England but I. I don't know this this is A. It's a tough day because you don't like good people getting fired and I and I saw that on the face of John Mary yesterday understood understood. We got a lot to do including the Jetson Adam gays as which was a weird day in jetlag as they wrapped up their twenty nineteen. When isn't Weird Day in Shetland? That's a fair question and I don't have the answer to that.

giants Pat Shurmur John Mara Dave gettleman football NFL New York Mike McCarthy Eli Manning John Mary jets Saquon Barkley Matt Role Jason Garrett hockey Daniel Jones Jerry Jones Stephen Stephen Tissue Patriots Ben Ben mcadoo Odell Beckham
Finders Keepers: Real Law

Stuff You Should Know

42:34 min | 2 years ago

Finders Keepers: Real Law

"I'm Katie golden. I studied psychology and Evelyn Schnur biology at Harvard, and I pretend to be a bird on Twitter and my new podcast creature feature. We've you nature in man from a new perspective each episode asking a comedian to get inside the minds of animals, so we can explore the startling connections to human psychology, you'll find blood bands and treachery that make game of thrones seemed like a dumb show for babies. Join us every Wednesday and subscribe on apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome to stop. You should know from how stuff works dot com. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. And this is Steffi should know the finders keepers additions losers. Weep. Offers. Chuck. This is like this is an actual thing is such a child's fantasy like this law in some places. And while it doesn't actually state losers weeper think it's implied. Yeah. It's implicit in the law. The finder's keeper, but you lost it. So you you're legally obligated to weep in public. Yeah. And it's funny. Reading some of these examples it sounds like playground stuff. I'll say that. I'll get to some of these some of these examples of Mike man, that's not yours. Like come on give it up. Did you say that out loud to yourself? Oh, you're I did a couple of these. I was like man seriously. That's not your that's not your. I'm just a big Justice thing. You know? So. Yeah. Me too. It's when I see people acting like a big baby in saying like this money found in my wall this mind. No, it's not well, you would be a great arbitrator. Yeah. Get out of here. Yours you be like my ruling is this man years give it up. But no, let's start with John and Mary last not their real names. No, no. I guess that's worth pointing out. These are non ass- an anonymous husband and wife team from nor Cal. Yeah. Northern california. And they are anonymous because they didn't want a lot of attention, and they are still anonymous. We'll call him John Mary, and they are famous. Well, I guess they're not famous, but their cases a little famous because they found ten million dollars in our, you know, what could be ten million dollars in rare gold coins buried on their property that they own on a walk, and it's known as the saddle ridge hoard in February two thousand thirteen they found this these fourteen hundred gold coins that no one knows who they belong to how they got buried there. But they found them into a longtime sort of coming out with this. They did about as smart as you possibly can. Yeah. They didn't rush to the press or anything and say look what we found they took their time. Because I think they brightly knew that they were onto something. Pretty special. Yeah. So they were out walking on on their property put that away for later with their dog. And they notice I guess the site of a can coming out of the ground, and they went and dug it out and sure enough there was a bunch of gold coins. There whenever you see can coming out of the ground. I mean, that's your hope and wish that it's going to be filled with gold coins or jewels or something right yet, it never happens, and it actually happened to these people. And so they went back again, and again, and again, and they ended up pulling eight cans filled with gold coins, pure gold coins out of the ground on their property, and it became very apparent based on the state of preservation of the cans and the dates of the coins in the cans that somebody had buried this. No more recently than the very beginning of the twentieth century and probably sometime in the late nineteenth century. Yeah. And here's a hint if you ever happen. To unearth, a whatever a can or a glass jar something full of money buried on your property just keep digging that may be it. But maybe not. Yeah. I wondered like what kind of excavation they under tofu once they were like, oh, there's more there. I'm quite sure they cleared that ground. It's it's it's verified there's no more cans. So if you're talking actual money face value. It's about twenty seven grand. But because these are rare fines in great great condition. Most of most of these coins, they're thinking that it could be worth as many as as much as ten million bucks. So they're going to sell it or they have been and donate some of this money. And you know, it's nice that they're they're donating some of it. But it it really sort of opens up this question of, hey, what does the law say about finding something pure? Much less like on my property, right? The finders keepers law. Basically what you're talking about. That's really what it's called in case laws. The finder finders keepers laws or rules. It's right. So there is a lot going on here. These guys Jonah Mary owned the land that these coins were found on and that was a huge Mark in their favor. Oh, yeah. But they're in the United States. It really depends on what state you're in. What court you go to what judge you happen to pull the case on is? So all over the place in so piecemeal that it's it's really almost the luck of the draw. And there are more things that you can do to compound your case to make it more likely that the the thing is is yours. But really it comes down to who has the best claim on whatever is found. Yeah. Like, somebody could come forward still probably or could have come forward with John Marion said, wait a minute. That was my great great grand pappy Clark's land. And I'm sure he did not intend to Clark those gold coins. Right. So like we actually should have a claim as his family to to to take the stuff from you. And like that could go that could very legitimately go to court to be decided by judge. And again, like you said, it's who has the more legitimate claim what really helps them as like you said it was on their land. And that it's a super old. Right. Exactly. So the fact that it's very very old means that the person who buried them as probably dead may not even have any living heirs any longer. That's one thing. That is it's old. The second thing is that it's old, but it's also not necessarily archaeological. It's. It's money. So it's the gold coins. Are the definition of treasure what we've entered now is called treasure law. There's different types of things we'll see, but they're willing gone category of found property is called treasure. And what they found was treasure. It was a gold coin. It was very old, but it wasn't necessarily archaeological again it was on their property. And so had somebody come along and said my grandpar- Clark buried those back when my family owned this property that's ours. They would have acclaiming and pretty much anytime something valuable, especially ten million dollars valuable as found in the United States. It is automated going to get hammered out in court because the laws are so vague in piecemeal and arbitrary that it's going to going to be hammered out in court who has the bigger claim. But because John Mary found something that was old that was very by someone no one knows who buried it. And. That it was found on their property. They have a pretty good claim. Now, if you were gonna come and say, my grand peppy buried that. Your claim would be that was that belong to my family at one point in time. We think it's still does it just happen to be buried and forgotten or left on land that these people bought now, there's a pretty good chance that the court would say yes, but they bought the land in depending on what state you're in. That's that. If they own the land they owned everything on it. Yeah. Or the car with money in the trunk or the house with a super valuable painting varied in the attic, it's sort of all the same. And this is modern times this has been going on since the dawn of time when people would lose or berry something, and they've always had I think back then it was a little more cut and dried like an ancient Rome. If you found something like that half of it went to the emperor just sort of no, Evan's or buts, right? If in modern England, if you find something old in rare they say that belongs to the Queen. But here's here's like a good fee for you now handed over, and that's very very new. And that's kind of that represents the the new thinking in treasure law or found property law. Which is look we can't just let you keep the stuff that may have not just like monetary value, but actually like cultural values Welsh or like, so we need to have something to do with this. So England, just y or I should say the UK just said everything you find that is valuable or in teak an archaeological that belongs to the crown, but the crown is going to pay you market value. No questions asked right off the bat. So it's not finders keepers. But it's finders. Here's here's a bunch of money. You didn't have before for finding this and bring it into us and the point of this from the position of the crowd. Down or the UK government is that it encourages cooperation with archaeological archaeologists in historians to preserve cultural stuff rather than just having it sold out onto the the commercial market to private collectors because of finder keepers laws, and that's how it was before nineteen Ninety-six. Yeah. I mean, if if it's in the UK today, and you find something that is not an ancient gold coin. But if you just find let's say, you know, ten thousand pounds bundled together buried in your in your attic or on the street for that matter. I think you have to file paperwork at a police station, the owners twenty eight days to claim it. And then it's yours in the United States at varies from state to state and sometimes even county to county. But generally, it's sort of the same thing reported to the police they need to advertise the lost property for a week. And then wait about ninety. Days depending on where you are to see if anyone claims that. And then after that, they might say you can keep it. Yeah. But but maybe it just depends on where you are. That's that's like contemporary property that you found right? Yeah. Yeah. This is not like ancient gold coins. This is found a bundle of cold hard cash. So let's let's take a break. We'll take a detour into contemporary property because there are a whole other set of laws that are are kind of important to all right. Yes. Chuck you, and I have pretty decent voices. I guess sure. Yeah. They all we have to do is use those voices on Amazon music, and we can discover over fifty million songs and thousands of curated playlist and stations just by talking just by doing what we do normally which is flapping our gums. That's right. You can request popular music from a decade or even a specific year. Like, hey, I want to hear some sweet new way the eighties jams, and it's that easy. Yeah. And it works across all of your devices to you have some friends coming over tonight, just say play music for dinner party, and your device will say why are you talking like a robot? Are you making fun of me? It's right. And here's the goal as part. If you can't remember the name to a song, which happens to us all but you can't remember some of the lyrics. Just ask for the song that goes, blah, blah, blah lyrics or bomb Chippewa while. That's right, listening to music is never been more, natural simple and fun everybody. And right now new. Moore's can get three months for only ninety nine cents. Yeah. That's at Amazon music dot com. Renews automatically cancels anytime. Okay. Chuck. So like we said there's there's some categories for for property found property one of them is treasure where it's a straight up found eight cans of gold coins and its treasure some in the UK there's not really a distinction between that and say like archaeological artifacts at their virtually one in the same in the US because the the age of the country is young enough. There's a distinction between an archaeological artifact and say like treasure that's found bright. But then there's contemporary property where the person who owned it is probably still alive, if not there the first generation after them is still probably around and that that contemporary stuff is basically broken out into three subcategories. There's lost abandoned and missle. Laid property and depending on the status of the property. The finder may or may not get to keep it. And even that then it depends on where you are. Yes. So as far as those categories go abandoned property is something that they say is foresaken by previous owner who doesn't have any intention of coming back for it. So they abandoned they have abandoned it, can you imagine like how you would tell whether something's abandoned or not. I don't know. I mean, unless they literally leave a note saying, finders keepers. I don't want this anymore. Get this away from me. You know, what would it be like a big bag of cocaine that somebody left there like a can't do anymore really bad for me? I don't want this. I don't know. I don't know that is that is the one that is the most confusing for sure the other two are much more straightforward loss. Obviously is like the example. They gave is you've lost your engagement ring in the street. And clearly it's something that you want back, and maybe have tried to come back and find, but you have dropped it or lost it somehow. Right. And this mislaid is even more interesting because that is something that you intentionally put somewhere, but then kind of forgot it in another good example like you went to the Bank, and we're filling out your your form. And then oh my goodness. You've got a cell phone call and had to bolt. Oh quick. And you left that money on the counter that you wanted to deposit in the Bank that has mislaid because you clearly had an intention for it and were just way late or whatever. Right. So it's not technically loss because you put it somewhere on purpose. Yes. Whereas lost like, you drop something in a parking lot. You may not even know you're missing it at the time. Right or you can't find it. Right. Mislaid is just like you're no longer where you put that thing down. But you intended to do something with it. There was intent behind it. But forgot or something or you got called away. Yeah. And that that property mislaid property is supposed to be guarded by whoever owns the property. So in that case, it would be the Bank somebody from the banks you over there collect that money and just set it aside and be like that car will be back for this. Right. Which is it's funny because you know, the whole Lawson found box, you think that's just like a good Samaritan thing will really it's everybody's just covering their behinds legally speaking, I guess I see differently now. I'm a little more bitter because of so this era Zona cases, one of the ones where I got a little little peo-. Okay. A little bit. So this is a man died. He hid half a million dollars in cans ammo cans, munition cans in the walls and years later, the person who owned that house were doing some innovations outcome these cans, and they were like, oh my God. It's a half a million dollars. This is ours. So this man's daughters. They knew like dad loved to do stuff like this. He loved to hide things away. They they searched before they sold the house. They even searched, but obviously did not find these these cans stashed in the walls. And when this came out these daughters came forward, and we're like, you know, that's our money. That's our our, you know, should have gone to us in a will. But my cookie dad stash it in the wall again jerk, and these people fought them for that and said, no, finders keepers. It's in our wall. We bought this house. Well, so I mean, I can understand your IRA in your anger at. That's what I'm like as soon as someone step forward out of been like, oh, well, here's your money. Then like, this is your father's sure it doesn't belong to me. But what if you were like, actually, we've got a legitimate legal claim to this because depending on where they were and this is era Zona, but I mean, depending on the state when you buy property from somebody you buy the. Operti and everything on that property. Whether anyone knows it's they're not it belongs to you is the property owner, for example, Texas is huge on that huge on private property ownership so much so that if you own property in Texas, and there's an archaeological site on your property. That's yours. Bub-? You can set it on fire. You can turn it into a rec room. You can do whatever you want with that stuff. That's your property. That's how that's how Texas views private property rights. Right. So these people may have been like, well, we're from Texas. That's just how we do it in Texas. They had a legitimate claim to challenge. I get what you're saying. But they also may have felt like, hey, we bought this property and this came with the property. So this is our sorry that whole losers we purse thing, I think is what they were invoking. Yeah. I mean, that's clearly what they did. But what I'm saying? Is that is not a that's not cool. It's that money did not belong to them. They didn't work for it. They didn't buy it because the house because they thought there might be money in the walls. I understand if no one came forward than great. But as soon as these daughters come forward like that's their money. Do the right thing. That's what I say. I'm with you. There's no way challenge these daughters in court, right? You would have been finders. Nice guys. Losers you go. Well, it'd make sure you're not go through all the legal process of making sure that they are. They say they were in it all checked out. I wouldn't like it. They came knocking on my door witness go all right here. I would I would go through that process. And then say, well, okay. Then it's definitely your money. Would you like interview their cousins, it'd be like what kind of daughters were they were they good daughters or do they deserve this at the very least you're inviting a a heap of bad luck and karma upon your head. If you believe that kind of stuff sure it comes around because her on comes around. That's my motto. Well, that's another finders keepers losers. What goes around comes around? And then third everything I need to know. I learned in kindergarten or what about this guy in Georgia. The public defender talk about a jerk. Yes. There's no this guy had no legal standing whatsoever. Whether he was from Texas or anywhere. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't look them up to see what his name was. But in two thousand thirteen a public defender found a diamond ring, I guess an engagement ring that was worth something like ten ten thousand dollars and just put it in pocket and walked away with sling man what a. I mean, especially in engagement ring. Right. That's mine. Yup. What a jerk. No. I I agree. And he got in trouble for it from what I understand they when the person went back and said, I lost my engagement ring. At the target helped me the target said. Well, of course, we're going to help you calm down. Calm down. Peace brother, and they pulled up their surveillance videos and saw the public defender finding the ring in pocketing it, and they put a warrant out for the public defender's arrest for I think larceny, actually at the very least for not going to links to find the person. Who's ring it was not even links links. Pick up a phone. Or go into the target and be like, hey, I need to speak to a manager. Well, it's funny. It says one of the things that you can. And should do is like to do that. And go I give that diamond ring to the manager at target, and like, I would never do that. If it was something super valuable, I wouldn't trust. I wouldn't trust them. I would keep it under my own control and go to the cops just walk around with a gun drawn on everybody. Get that. I found somebody get back. It's my looking at her. You like, maybe I should just go ahead, and rob some place. Now, I got my gun out. And unprotected. You enter into a life of crime, totally inadvertent. It's a Justice thing again. Like, I don't want people should have stuff that is rightfully theirs not like up. Well, I just happened to get lucky today. Right. Won't get rich quick. Like what's wrong with this country? Yep fan, and I mean, I know you're right about the five hundred grand in the toaster oven. The diamond ring is even more cut and dry to me for sure. But that's yeah. This isn't a parking lot. And it was just lost. So yeah, there are certain things that you want to do if you find loss property that is contemporary. That's obviously lost the top Asli new and one of the first things you want to do is take it to the cops and say here, here's my name. And number in case somebody doesn't doesn't claim this. But I'm officially giving it to you the cops for safe keeping and then probably take out an ad in the paper or on Craigslist or both and then kick back and wait for the kudos in the praise for being a hero. Yeah. Or for that thing to be returned to you if no one claims it. Yep. Depending on where you are. I think like you said in the UK it's something like a a month in California. I saw hundred and twenty days of also seen ninety. Yeah. If you do all the right things and follow all the right steps. It can be yours free and clear not only free and clear like you're not going to be arrested free and clear where the person can come back and say, oh, you know. You know, I that was my ring if you are jerk, you can say, no, it's my ring now in the cops will be like, it's it's their ring. Now, they followed all the right moves. Yeah. They also recommend if it's something really really valuable. Maybe like get an attorney on the thing. Like, maybe one who would find the diamond ring and not return it, right? Exactly. He's a public defender to. That's what I don't get. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, if it was like, an entertainment, it would make much more sense. It would I guess but a public defenders like, well, I don't get paid. Now. This is a really thankless job. And I'm going to do something for myself for once in jail for doing something for themselves, and they needed a public defender. Yes. Ironically, should we take a break? Yeah. We're gonna take a break. Chuck, and then we are going to go under the sea. Yeah. We're things get really confusing. Hey, everybody. I tell you what your confidence in yourself is important, and sometimes one little change can make all the difference in hair club knows this. So they are inviting you to become a part of the hair club family to see how getting the most out of your hair can change your life. Yeah. Hair club understands everything you're going through all the emotions you're feeling the questions you have. And they understand because hair club is the leader in total hair solutions with the legacy of success for over forty years. Everybody knows hair club. Yeah. You can see for yourself. Just how powerful great hair can be by going to hair club dot com slash stuff today for a free hair analysis and a free take-home haircare kit. Yep. All valued at over three hundred dollars, by the way. That's right. That's hair club dot com slash stuff. For a free hair analysis and free haircare kit hair club dot com slash stuff. All right. So this is where things get super super convoluted. When you're talking about shipwrecks and literal treasure from like, you know, an ancient galleon. Or maybe not ancient let's say galleon. You know, it could be. Yes, we'll ancient times. They had. Oh, you know, the oldest intact. Shipwreck was recently found in the black seeded, you see it. Uh-huh. It's an ancient Greek ship. Okay. So ancient Greek. Yeah. That's how ancient it's not even Greek. It's rica. It's so ancient it's the kind that of deceased was lashed to when they were going past the sirens. It's like that kind of ship. It's that old right? Yeah. And it's fully in Texas laying on it side at the bottom of the black seats, just beautiful beautiful little shipwreck. That would be an ancient galleon. I guess you could call it. All right. So this is where like I don't even know how to talk about this almost because it's so convoluted because it can it can matter who's ship. It originally was it can matter what was on that ship. It can matter where the ship. Is now resting in whose waters, or if it's international waters or partially on one side or the other which is when it gets super confusing who the ship was leased from who was leased from who is in charge of because most of these aren't accidents. No that it is pointed out that sometimes like a scuba diver might find something like this. But usually it's an expedition looking for this stuff specifically. So who runs that or who's insurance companies have claim, and what international agreements are made. And it's just it's almost like it's so case by case there really is no rule. Yeah. If you thought Laham property was come looted under under sea archaeology property treasure property is just totally off the charts. So with that was one of the nerdy sentences. I've ever uttered. Yeah. I wrote an article years ago about undersea archaeology, and I did a lot of that research, then and it is just really like, basically what happens is. Wants something is found then everyone just lawyers up and starts fighting. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I think the reason why it's it's particularly convoluted in in contentious for the undersea treasure. Is that the treasures that? They're finding are just so I pop Ingley value that it's worth, you know, going to court for fifteen twenty years over billions of dollars in some cases. Yeah. There was a recalled the San Jose that was discovered in. It was announced in two thousand fifteen I'm not quite sure when Columbia discovered it, but it's off the coast of Cartagena, and until fifteen Colombian government came forward and said, we found the San Jose. I was a galleon. It was a galleon was sunk by the British three hundred years ago. It wasn't Greek. No, no, it was it was Spanish. But it was transporting gold silver gems from Peru back to Spain to to finance a war. It was loaded with with valuables. And they think that this wreck today the valuables aboard are worth between one and twelve billion dollars. This is not something that any one of these parties are countries is going to give up on. No, it's the kind of shipwreck. It's the kind of treasure that can actually affect world markets like the value of goods. On world markets above on land. Because this stuff has been under the scene out of the market for so long when it comes onto the market, it could actually depress the value of the of like gold because there's so much of it suddenly coming on the market. That's how rich this treasure is. Yeah. And it's funny here this article sent there is a UNESCO convention in two thousand one on underwater, cultural heritage findings that have best practices. They're not actually like, you know laws, and they're they're like we'd be happy to help out with us. But nobody's called this. So U N. Yeah. They'd P. They don't want them involve, basically, they're just like, no, we're gonna work it out with the lawyers. They're like, hey, thanks a lot. Just go sit over there until we call you pretty much. So the the San Jose has a lot of people arguing over for example. Spain is saying, well, it's a Spanish galleon give us our give us our money back. Colombia's like, yeah. It's in our coastal waters. That's our territorial waters. That belongs to us. Peru says yet you guys came in extracted that from our indigenous population expansion calling and that's one that doesn't come up very often. But you'd think it should especially in the new world stuff like that. That was our original stuff to begin with even never been on that boat. Ironically, they probably have the least claim to it, sadly. But there's there's I wonder though, if they'll get a portion of it, though, I think if they said, no, this is this is the thing this is legitimate. They could conceivably get cut in. But they're not going to get the whole thing. I don't think anybody's going to get the whole thing. Now, I green clear, so there's all these different groups arguing over it. And it's big of a mess as it is. It's actually not the biggest mess of a treasure found aboard a shipwreck. There's a ship called the Notre Dame deliverance. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. That was that. Thank forty miles off a Florida seventeen fifty five. I mean, one of just hundreds and hundreds of ship to to crash off the coast of Florida and US salvage company founded in two thousand two and this is the one that I was talking about it's partially it'll international waters partially as part of the Florida Keys, national marine sanctuary the Spaniards lease the ship from the French West Indies company. Right. And so they all have a claim. And then complicating this is the fact that in the United States nineteen eighty-seven we passed the abandoned shipwreck, which means all shipwrecks within US waters, which is what like three miles off of any of our coastlines. Yes. Our US properties. Is that? Right. Yep. So it's super convoluted. And that's actually the the territorial waters thing has kind of been the toughest. One or the the the the best claim that any country can lay on a ship is not our territorial waters. Customarily? That means that's yours. It's yours to deal with. But when the ship is in international waters, partially international wars, that's just a whole different ballgame. And even when something's in territorial waters like Spain's not gonna go away. Now, you know when two to three billion dollars is on the table. They're going to say, no, we're gonna use diplomats to press. You know, at least getting a portion of this France will do the same thing. And the Salvors are like, well, hey, wait a minute. This is this is ours. And actually at first Florida, Florida judge said, Yep. It's yours free and clear. Two to three billion dollar booty is yours. Take it put on this. I patch and this cool hat and go get it. Well, but you have to get Spain's permission to go. Get it. Right. Exactly. So Spain's can say. We wanna have something to do with this. But that's shipwreck act. The whole the whole reason why the United States is even involved is from that shipwreck tact Ninety-seven. It's very similar to that you k- act where basically says don't belongs us where the United States is in our territory waters. It belongs to us. But here's a significant portion of it usually like twenty five percent of it. And the point of that is to keep Salvors and treasure hunters interested enough that they're actually going out and Selva djing these archaeological sites, but they're doing it under the jurisdiction of the state or federal government, which says you've got to keep daily logs. You have to break the wreck site into strings of square meters. Yeah. You have to catalog everything you have to have a certified ARCHE all marine archaeologist, I'm board throughout the entire voyage. Overseeing this whole thing you gotta do it. Right. And we'll give you twenty five percent of what we can get for it. Which is. Stansel in some some cases. But it's not like treasure huntings like a cheap activity. It's a very expensive undertaking. Yes, it's a seriously expensive. And like, they don't just like these treasure hunting companies. Don't just go in there and say, hey, I think there's something there. Let's go grab it. They do all their research because it is so expensive to ensure as much as possible that they will have a claim to it in the end. Right. You know, they don't just go in there willy nilly and hopes that the courts will decide when them know for sure. But I mean, I think that's the probably of significant portion of the operating costs of treasure hunting outfit is the court costs and fees to get the two to get the rights to the treasurer. I would guess. Yeah. And in this case too. I'm sure France was like Florida judge like I don't care what you say. But Florida judges have a big in this. They're about as professional as you could get as far as as passing judgment on. Treasure claims for sunken ships, Florida has the most sunken ships of any state in the union something like six thousand ten thousand. It's crazy estimated shipwrecks. Yeah. From piracy hurricanes all this stuff. Florida's got it all so if you're gonna if you're looking for a judge who has experienced on ruling on a case like this Florida's probably your best bet don't go to Oklahoma. That'd be my. Gestion? That's just good advice all around, and it can also if you're a treasure hunter, not only can the court costs speak killer. You might be put in jail. There's a guy named Tommy Thompson, who's a very famous treasure hunter who found the wreck of the Edmund FitzGerald. No. Although man, there few wrecks fascinate me more than Memphis. Joe? I can just sit there and look at those eerie pictures of it all day long echina- just sing that song over and over. We shouldn't do that drive. You insane. No, he found the wreck of the SS Central America. Which is a steamer that went down in a hurricane off the coast of South Carolina in eighteen fifty seven with four hundred twenty five souls aboard and three tons of gold, and he found it, and he went in sold a bunch of stuff and didn't pays investors and a judge put him in jail in Ohio where he's been sitting since I think two thousand fifteen because he refuses to say, we're five hundred gold coins. From the wreck went he just won't say he said that he gave him to somebody and believes, but he can't remember who. That's really. What is lawyer head to tell the Washington Post as pretty funny? Yeah. I just be like somebody. And he can't remember who. Yeah. I mean, I I wish we could have been a little bit more like black and white about the shipwreck thing. But it's just it's so depends on the case. Yeah. You know? There is no solid rule. There's a couple of rules. There's one above ground where if you are caught digging on federal land, that's a felony. Yeah. And any stone tool found in the United States belong to the federal government automatically. Thanks. I would guess unless it's in Texas in which case the Texas authorities and the federal authorities would fight with one another over your right to own that stone tool. It's point. So I think that's about it. For finders keepers good. When I thought so too. If you know more about finders keepers, go find something and say, finders keepers and see what happens and then let us. No. And in the meantime, we're going to sit here and do listener mail. I'm gonna call this Stanford prison in prison experiment. Follow up angry follow. Yeah. You read this one. Hey, guys, just want to say thank you for your episode on ZIM bardo. I'm a cognitive psychologists have been teaching for years, and it makes me angry in a way have never been angry before you do your best to fact check and show that you're giving and she's not talking about our show, by the way, right Zimbardo. You do your best effect. Check in show, you're giving students reliable information. But then someone pulls crap like this against bardo and causes serious problems for us as teachers how did I handle this chapter this year? Well, number one, I taught it is normal as the text takes forever to be updated. And number two. I showed them the video ghost of Abbu grave emigrate Abba grave and had had them write about house. Embargo study predicted this would happen. And then three had. Them. All listen to your podcast now, they are all his angry as I am harshly me for doing that. But I wanted them to feel the effort they put into it. Go to waste, but I had a very interesting observation one class the, publicity and popularity of this study could it have actually created the distortion prison varmint and part at ABA grave through expectation. Oh, I see like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I guess so basically was embardo the actual Lucifer in his book having an effect not only in society as a whole and what we believe about humanity. But how we act we now live in his hell, then she says thanks again that is from Alison Deming from try-count tech temporarily insane with rate. It's right. I don't blame her. Yeah. That was that was a good episode. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Allison, thanks for writing him at the support. We agree with you wholeheartedly. Passion. It's not anger. That's right, man. Or maybe it's anger. I don't wanna know you feel man, Chuck, you're killing it. These days. So if you wanna get in touch, this, you can go to stiffy should know dot com and check out our social links. I'm at the Josh Clark way dot com, and we're all via Email at stuff podcast at how stuff works. Dot com. Baffles of other topics. How stuff works dot com. Hey, Matt I have yet to ride one of those birds scooters 'cause I hate those things see that does not surprise me at all Joel. But you know, I have been getting Instagram adds to give me to become a bird charter to join that gig economy. Oh, that's right. Just like Hoover folks are getting targeted to start side hustles to make an extra buck or even to try to make a career out of it. But should you? Do it not all side. Hustles are created equal exactly. Every week. We dive into practical money topics like this on a podcast. Listen subscribe to our show on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast. Just search for how to money.

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Research opens way to ending malaria

FT News

13:01 min | 1 year ago

Research opens way to ending malaria

"Capital? One is building a better Bank one that feels nothing like a typical Bank. It's why they've reimagined banking and built something completely different capital. One cafes. They offer checking accounts with no fees or minimums and savings accounts. With one of the best savings rates in America. This is banking reimagined with your needs in mind. Open an account today at any Capital One location or online at five minutes and experienced banking reimagined for yourself Capital One. What's in your wallet capital? One NA member FDIC, Michael Georgio. From the newsroom of the financial times. In london. I'm John Mary Brown the malaria parasite kills nearly half a million every year meshes them children under the age of five bednets insecticides on a new vaccine have all shown some potential to curb the disease. What if it could be virtually wiped out some early research using gene editing suggests this might be a real possibility Andrew Jack discusses the findings with crtv? Cookson our science editor and leading researcher Austin, but. So Clive tell us about the theory behind this new research as a background we need to remember. There are three very different sorts of organisms involved in transmitting malaria does us humans does the plasma. Jim parasite causes of the disease and the mosquitoes that spread the disease and all three have been targeted and all being targeted and attacking the mosquitoes. Which is what we're talking about. Today has an ancient history. Like draining marshes to stop them. Breeding and more recently in the twentieth century, poisoning them with nasty pesticides. The most recent approach is to use new gene editing technology and Austin Nobel to tell us more about it. And that makes very very precise changes in the mosquitos DNA far more precise than has been possible with the older genetic engineering recombinant DNA tech. Techniques and the various things you can do with that one is to basically crush the populations because they can no longer breed because then they don't get fertile aunt females. We can talk about that later or you can perhaps alter them said that they can no longer transmit the parasite then they'd still be mosquitoes buzzing around and biting, but they'd be harmless. So Austin you've been experimenting with crisper based gene drive at Imperial College. Tell us exactly how the approach works. Sure. So I was quite mentioned there's a couple of different approaches and were particularly focused on once we're we're trying to suppress or reduce the numbers of the particular species of ski does that transmit malaria, and we'd do that by targeting gene that's necessary for the females to develop properly and be able to reproduce. So we knockouts that gene using crisper base system. And it's gene drive. System, which means that that knock odes that disruption is able to spread you know, disproportionate way to the project, and so despite it causing a certain amount of sterility in the females that is still able to spread through a population. If you introduce it at a rare will over successive generations become quite common and gradually sterilize empire journalists or fraction of the female population. You're actually taking the newborn mosquito and doing some initial genetic manipulation in them, and then encouraging them to breed and spread. So to Connecticut engineer mosquito you inject DNA into a freshly laid egg. And then if that works, then you just sort of propagate from there, and so you're not having to do that all the time. But instead you are able to propagate that genetic change over successive generations in and then you would propagate in the field if we get to the point of releases so one of the findings been like so far with using this technique. Well, the most recent results from work that we've published our that we've been able to crash small cage populations of mosquitoes about six hundred mosquitos introducing this construct twenty five percents in the population. And then over either eight or eleven generations that gene spread through the population of actually all the females were sterile. And then there was no progeny in the next generation and generations. So that implies how much time in fact, and how practical to get that transfer in the wild with it's about a month or so per generation between three weeks a month, so less than a year, and is the result of that you get essentially sterile mosquitoes and the com- then reproduce, right? And so the population of those mosquitoes goes down and so malaria transmission goes down 'cause that's a direct function of the numbers of mosquitoes. Another other sorts of gene editing experiments taking place at the moment. Does other work also happening? Imperial college. That is trying to engineer the mosquitoes to be less able to transmit the parasite to interfere with the development of the parasite within the mosquito. Also, I should mention that the large part of the work. We're doing is in the lab of Andrea corr Santi at Imperial College. And so other working his life is to try to skew the sex ratio such that it's mostly male mosquitoes 'cause it's only the females that bite and transmit the disease. So if you can skew the population to be mostly males than that will reduce transmission thoughts about the relative merits of the different approaches. Well, at this point they're all worth following up. 'cause I'll show great potential. So we have done computer modeling of all of them. And if we can get them to work properly, they can be very effective. And so work is proceeding on all three of them. Probably the most recent success is the one imagined I which is the were on sterilizing the females. I mean, this is great the Barra. She experimental research. How long do you think before we might see something like this go to scale will? I think an important stage in that journey is something that's Austin mentioned. And that is very good reliable computer modeling of what this would actually mean out in the fields and Austin's been working with people at Oxford University on a grand computer modeling show. What would happen in working fast? So ever, I think it's a million square kilometers of sub Saharan Africa. And that shows that it would locally wipeout some populations, but it wouldn't completely make the species and awfully Gumby, I which is the one that causes trouble in Africa. It wouldn't completely make it extinct. So that will be necessary. They'll have to be international regulations because you can't restrict this to one country, you can probably restrict it to one continent Africa. Because the anopheles gambiae mosquitoes which caused the trouble in Africa, a different from the species that are active in Latin America, or in Asia, and this sort of crisper, gene editing is very species specific, but a hell of a lot of regulatory work will be needed on an international scale. So how long I mean Austin may have views, but it couldn't really be less than ten years. I'd have thought what do you think? Austin? Well, nobody's done this before. So there's not a well-worked pathway to be able to estimate. How long it's gonna take. We hope to be in a position where five years from now we would be able to put in an application to release one of these gene drive constructs in Africa that's helped to mystic. No. It can be less than that. That's sort of the target were aiming for how long then would take to go through the regulatory process. That's really is uncharted territory. I'm one of the issues. It's often raised isn't there about this sort of approached by some environmentalists, the potential unintended consequences destruction of a species, perhaps that can be a source of food for other animals in the food chain, for example, or maybe some other sort of mutation that could end up worse than the concentration. What's your thoughts on that? Well, it's very important to take these potential issues into consideration. And look at them closely on the issue of ecological effects. What we know at the moment suggests that an awfully Gabby is not a so-called Keith. Stone species in the density reduction numbers would have large cascading effects ramified affects through the system. They're very good transmitters of malaria because they'd be like biting people, and they live around people, particularly in rural context across Africa. And so they're Nisha if you want is the village, and so if you go away from people find other mosquitoes Beato find this particular species, so we don't think there's going to be cascading effects on the wider ecosystem in some places in east Africa bednets have been very good in really reducing the numbers of an awfully gambiae. And there haven't been reports of ecological consequences from that, it would still be nice to know more. And so we are doing so ecological work in Ghana to try and find out in more detail what it's an office Gambia, and in particular to see if there's anything for which that's a large fraction of their diet or to see if there's any plant for which it's particularly important pollinator. There's no. Handed out of the moment. But it'll be good to get data to look at that. Specifically, you will face environmental activists opposition throughout this process. I suspect at the last meeting of the United Nations convention on biodiversity loss, November Shamil shakes, though, a cools for a complete moratorium on this work from some of those groups the decision was not to have a moratorium. But the this work should take place with very stringent, national and international safety guidance at cetera. Do you think you can win over some of those opponents Austin undoubtedly there are things we need to look at more such as ecological consequences? But I think that people who are open to the evidence will be able to be convinced by that we have it. I think there will be some who are ideologically opposed to any sort of genetic modification and for which data is not an issue and that will. Always be the case. I think what is important is that to the extent possible the decisions here are made by those who are most likely to be affected, positively or negatively by the technology. And so that the decisions really ought to be made in Africa. And that was actually something that was voiced quite explicitly at that CBD meeting November that really we should not be having a blanket moratorium, but it should be up to countries decide on a case by case basis how best to proceed, but certainly a really important contribution with your work too, taxing a diseased remains one of the most heavy disease killers in the world Austin Burt thank live Cookson. Thank you very much. That was Andrew Jack talking to Clive Cookson our science editor and Austin bird, professor of evolutionary genetics at London's imperial coach. Thanks for listening. Remember, if you're not already a scribe would like to discover more F T content. You can find our latest subscription office of F T dot com. Ford's national offer. This is a message to all the accountants out there. If you are worried that a robot is going to take your job become a certified management accountant, you see we are only programmed to mine data and crunch numbers. You'll have control over the strategy and the decision making so become a CNA and robots like me will help you not hurt you unless we short-circuit then all bets are off the CNA certification. You've gotta earn it. Visit CNA certification dot org for details. Capital? One is building a better Bank one that feels nothing like a typical Bank. It's why they've reimagined banking and built something completely different capital. One cafes. They offer checking accounts with no fees or minimums and savings accounts. With one of the best savings rates in America. This is banking reimagined with your needs in mind. Open an account today at any Capital One location or online in five minutes and experienced banking. Reimagined for yourself Capital One. What's in your wallet capital? One NA member FDIC, Michael degeorge you.

Austin malaria Africa FDIC Andrew Jack Clive Cookson Imperial College America Africa london engineer John Mary Brown Austin Nobel editor Saharan Africa Michael Georgio Austin Imperial college Connecticut
That's Life PT 2

Talks with Chepe

53:49 min | Last month

That's Life PT 2

"Again. Ladies and gentlemen due to popular demand in studio. We have Dylan, Brown three instead of a be today we're GONNA discuss tiktok music and life again this is Part two. Stop. got. Decision Making. My man doing way sub, which you chepachet were here back again but we're going to do it right this time we didn't get hit by storms. We didn't lose power. So we're now back in studio live, you see the TV over there got young Jamie over here. Very happy herbal thanks for coming man. Thanks for up your schedule Albro I. Know You've been a busy man your hard magic in touch with also that's very true. I mean it's nothing personal but you know. You're busy. You're here making hit music. Making hit tic TACs. Hell. You I heard you the Voice of FM. I am the voice of Wfan. FM. So why don't you tell us about your new radio? GIG? Well I mean it's not really a radio GAG. It's just you know. A little thing little idea that we had and we turned it into a TIKTOK and it's been getting some traction. Going see them on my page. I'm a big talker and I do see them I love him. I'll give you that. I have a question for you that I've been dying to ask you that I have you now back here in studio, and we can actually dive into an award, but my phone died talked. What is the creative process behind her Tiktok the reason now, the reason why I ask this is because. You have. Well we're being both Prince Andrew lackner was tattoo drew and he has puts out. You great content you guys obviously get the trash interviews. So what are the steps that you're taking now to like? Breakthrough TIKTOK. Aspect of because it's so saturated right now we know with continental thing I appreciate that I can appreciate it because like anything else the more saturated, the more people are willing to listen. True. So. What goes behind him in. Well, the thing about Tiktok I probably downloaded like just like everybody to maybe like a year year and a half ago and I've been doing it. Every once in a while off and on I got a couple of videos something like two hundred K. people seeing it. which is great i. mean if you have something to promote great outlet to be on but the process of doing TACs, it's all about consistency I've noticed because I have another friend. Family friend. WHO has two million? And I asked him. Well, he's really fucking sexy. Sexy Guy. that. Boy. Exactly. Like straight up e boy, you know to the T. but. He told me something and so as to drew because tetras rising up, it's it's about consistency first and foremost. The content matters, but the consistency is very important because just the way the algorithm works. If you. Fall off for a month. You got kind of like rebuild your momentum doesn't make sense. Like any else music podcasts exactly. Exactly. And you know the process of doing talks I don't know I. I would say for anybody who wants to get into it I would just say make yourself laugh honestly like if something is funny to you. Just do it. You know you could follow the trends that shit that Shit's important to but. At the end of the day. Yeah. You. You should just be focusing on entertaining yourself because at the end of the day, if you find it funny. In the pool of Tiktok, which is at this point, the whole world has fucking Tiktok. SOMEBODY IS GONNA. Find Funny to You know what I mean. So it's like it's more about that. So are you worried at all with the upcoming Doomsday Day for tectonic? Not, really know are you are you? Are you. Are you going to start using say worst case scenario tiktok goes away obviously it's big platform for you right now with your music greer and everything going on. Do you make that transition to another platform like say instagram reels were they just came out? Do Use instagram at all I've dabbled in is still very new but I really feel like, yeah like you said, I've been following the news and stuff like that. They're talking about banning TIKTOK. And just like vine did like when vine died everybody migrated to something else you know what? I mean. So I feel like. With. Everything. There's an when there's an end something something else always takes its place. Right and that's kind of you just got to be up and aware of like. Okay. That's not working where can I put by energy merit not and I definitely feel I mean I was a big one guy obviously. You're saying is true because you can see all these like big vine guys like David Door break and all the to youtube after Dori Mascaro. Lily Pons. All these Jake Paul's Paul, not a big fan of them but. But they all moved over to Youtube. So obviously, that's the idea to mobile platforms and create a new one. Sadhana. You know it's it's good to get the perspective of your anti to try to make that transition. And I'll give you because I'm not. I was at one point making talks everybody. If you WANNA go look at them. Definitely check amount. Very funny. At don't shape as the TIKTOK as. I did make some Tiktok long haired to train them out. You might want to go see them once you get out by John Wick di- did here John Wick I looked like a the guy from. Shrek or I didn't hear that one here and there. It is what it is. You put yourself out there. But. I will say there's videos on there that that get these like tractions. That's like what the fuck like you don't understand it. You hear that new one with the empty be. Now actually. So it's it's like this rapper I've got an old what you want to call her from the girl from. I just like made this distract like they sampled that shit in severe I showed you earlier that girl going like empty the be emptied to be that one. That shit becomes. That's true. Yeah. See that's the thing I like it. It's of like a shot in the dark dude it's like rolling the dice. That's why I said be consistent with it because you don't know what people will attach to and turned into a viral sensation you don't really know. And I mean your best bet is to just actually drew gave me some words of wisdom. And I'll pass them onto the listeners right now listeners don't shape a. He said TIKTOK. Equated to this somebody who buys a lottery ticket once a month. And somebody who buys a lottery ticket every day. You have a better chance of winning the lottery if you buy one every day as opposed to once a month. So if you're posting Tiktok once a month as opposed to every day. The Guy? Who Post every day has more of a chance to go viral. Right you know what I mean. So it's like it's a really like that. I definitely hear you, and I guess that's that interests anything like people who make music videos on their absolutely. Obviously podcast is a big thing to like I mean I. Understand you idea making one one a day for like I was telling you four. There's a lot of behind the scene things go around when you make an episode. For me like as soon as I'm done recording this episode, it's back to. First of all Irene I try to pre book my people two weeks out and so I really know what's going on and that's our planning so. I give credit to all those. podcasters who do make an episode every day because. For what I do here and I'm looking at it and you know limited with to the research that I have. It's hard. I'll give tax and I also give it credit people may take every day first of all I don't understand. The creativity behind some of these things I wouldn't be able to do it. Like I I got creative at one point with like. Things here and there. But like you said, they weren't every day it was like every month or so. Hard stuff. Some. Things that like I would do back in the day like I'm getting back on my talk flow right now because it really at the end of the day dude like it's such a tool like it really isn't too like if you have something more to promote through that it's such a great tool to market yourself it's it's actually insane. But you know regardless of that fact just for fun. That's great too. But my advice would be like you get on a roll or some shit like you have one good idea make like ten videos day put him in his drafts, keep it going and then you can post for ten days straight. You know what I mean that's also true. Listen people. This is marketing one on one advice you're getting for free listening to the man from the Ma- The horse's mouth itself Dylan Brown with a three instead of a b because listen this man has wisdom and speaking of wisdom to and content house the music going The music, the music dude like there's a plethora of music that I haven't even released yet you know like. That same concept with the ten a day. I mean like you dry you. You do ten tectonic videos right? You have them in the bank. It's the same thing with music. You know like I have so much music I haven't released yet. It's in the process of getting mixed the master stuff. Well, in the beginning of the quarantine, you're doing new music Mondays Rice yes. So For New musicians out there and people were looking to put out the content. What was the you know? What made you want to start doing that it was like an inspiration from Kanye West's Good Friday type of thing where you just dropping things every Friday in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. because. I feel like. In today's market like back in the day music was what you could get in and you got what you got right and that was we didn't have the Internet we didn't have youtube. We didn't have spotify playlist and shit like that. So we had the radio, you are Bob. This is beyond my generation because we. Had Line wiring. fucking grew up in the stone. You had your favorite band and they drop an album maybe once every year or maybe once every two years and that's all you got and you live with that for a while. But with the Introduction of streaming and you know Youtube and such a oversaturation of just music in general. I think in today's market, it's more based on. Singles like it's more based on productivity and how consistent you are putting out great music. So the the whole new music Monday concept. Yeah like I did pull it. I did pull out of inspiration from Kanye Music Fridays. But the whole concept is based around like you know, I'm an artist. This is what I love to do. This is the music I make if you fuck with it, you fuck with it. If you don't, you don't that's fine but I'm going to give you something new every week I'm GonNa keep you enthralled like a new episode to TV show or something like that right and for all of you haven't heard music. I definitely recommend you to it my favorite song that you release was. At these changes these changes doesn't that it. So I played it for Young Jamie here on a car ride home like a couple of weeks ago. Had you feel about a young Jamie? Young Jimmy said it was fire. Thank you guys. We saw you know it's definitely worth listen and menu on because we N-. You were talking beforehand while we were getting up the system set up here. Doing her soundcheck. And the music nowadays just so. I don't know where you put like there's just no. So behind anymore outselling you like. We're talking about the grammy's and housing to lingerie on the way here. She got robbed from a grammy last year for best album. You can just from the first of all from the her first song she literally said. Man Child I have Jay. I don't want to screw it up. I don't WanNa fuck them up but it's like the rhyme motion behind it it's like. Why don't they make? You have granted you have good. Ours are putting stuff but like. Like billy, Irish one album of the year which her music was good for what it was. Worth. I'll give it that. But it wasn't like transcending the promos like, Oh, I felt that it's like hit me in the soul and you know a medic accused on Jamie. And You know what I mean like Nah I completely understand what you mean like because I, I mean I write lyrics so I pay attention to that. So, she literally says God Damn. Man Child You fucked me so good that I almost said I. Love You. Saying. That's how she opens up the. Right in the field, it makes you feel like damn as you right in the fields because even if you're not a girl and your dude like you can kind of appreciate because you're damn. Like we've all been there. The saying goes every man has screw three loves his life The one that. Broke. Your heart. The one that got away and then you settle with. So you know something like that's the type of music that were missing today at work. 'cause they gave me the odds because I'm the DJ. Here. Jay CHAPA H. You know when you listen to like. Or like. Michael, play or morass like these guys who make like these slower type music or even like blink one eighty to walk into where they put the emotion behind it. And like now it's like nothing. I I'm right there with you because. At the end of the, this is the way I look at it. I don't know if your listeners are familiar with a guy named Nikola Tesla. And Misadventure back in the day I hope you all know who it is. If you don't call up a history book, look them up Google Guy. But He said something very profound. He's like if you want to understand the university you have to think in terms of energy frequency and vibration. Okay and if you look at music in general, what is music in its purest form? Vibration. Frequency and it carries an energy with it. Okay and the way I think about music. Is that. Yeah. You put on a bomb as fucking beat a hard ass trap heat. It's GonNa make you move. It's GonNa make you feel something but the words behind that the words put too that beet. Are. They good or bad thing about it like the message behind that is the message all about F- like. Fuck bitches get money you know like. I don't even know what s pussy. That's a huge song. That's what I'm saying like use it like that has no like all right I got. Both. It has substance what is that? Like you lose that and I wish people would go back and like. Make like these small style tours and things like that like how John Mary does and things like that. It's actually funny because. Our producer here in his job I gotta give him credit just reminded me that at one point I was mean him work for you for your band He was fucking nine hours your marketing we helped you out. Chapter. It's today right. Yesterday it was yesterday where we were playing at the revolution and I have the video scenario of you playing there and granted we play for a crowd there for what you know for the location data was worth your son music was from reggae. It was a scream all night so. We may do what we we may do with. It was the bookings that we were getting right when you came back from California. But now they announced the revolutions closed. I. Know I saw boarded up the other day. It's close for good and like that's gone originally get that back and it said see that now like granted, we're in a Kobe era and things are on certain. All these small places and things that we were like enjoying going since he's musical bands go out and play. Now we have to rely on Youtube and we have to rely on these stations to put out that they want to put out of us going out and finding that local ban you how many people hit us up after we book that show for you guys a lot probably. Your music was Ronrico. Like even like the Nook, the I think it was called wanted. To. That's insane do so it's like such a losing. That's substance. I guess you WANNA call it no. Yeah. Like you said, we're losing that raw real stuff like the difference between. The difference between John Mayer and Cardi. B.. Just for instance I'm just pulling names. You know what I'm saying John Mayer is a home cooked meal and Cardi B.. Is fucking McDonalds that's that's the difference. Even though big MACs matched but. Master but what if your mom made you a big Mac from scratch with all the love and tenderness that a home cooked meal brings? That's GONNA hit different. That is also choose I would probably enjoy that big MAC more. John Mero down one of the best guitarist of all time the songwriters long all time hold his can live album, and in the one in Los Angeles has a unmatched the way he plays free fall in two. He owns that song like you say that that's not Tom Petty Song like. Tom Petty expert John Mary Joe. It's like these things that I wish like I guess because like we're getting the music out there and like billy obstacles, I'm using her the example because she's the biggest theme music right now. where she says, Oh, I see them I ruined my brother. Ride, the music, but you consider the contrast between these two because Fini's music is. More into the saw. And speaks volumes to what it's worth. Compares when she's making these radio hits. So I guess from the standpoint of us as an audience talking to you who you're you know. Made. Musician. Where you have a concrete background and a good foundation of where you're coming from like what goes behind the musician for these. Productions and like creativity of the songs. Well, I feel like a lot of the people you hear on the radio like I said before comparing it to food because I think that's a good a good. Way To think about it is like they're looking to make that money. God, bless them for wanting to be secure and all that stuff but. There's a lane that's pop and pop has always been the lane of like. Fast Food Easy to digest music that doesn't really make you feel it'll make you move for the moment but does it have any long lasting impression in your life? Probably not I mean for some people? Yeah and that's okay and that's great. But a lot of the people that are making really great music. Now, you don't hear them on the radio you have to search for them and I feel like honestly in the area of covid. It's Cove aside. But because of all this stuff US being trapped inside him without you know the things we're used to having like basketball and entertainment you know Blah. Blah Blah. It's really made us dive in inward and really think about like. What. You know what's bringing my life value like what has value? Intrinsic value that is long lasting like you said, like I can listen to John Mayer Song or make me feel the same way every time which is beautiful. You'll make me cry tears of joy and I can listen to some trap song. Don't make me hype for the moment. pre-game let's get up. Every MO- every. Style has its purpose in a way but. I don't know like, I really I really hope and pray that we get back to. Really, appreciating art for what it really is because music is an art form ultimate arts all type. Arts. Funny. You say that because it's Do US going back looking back at history and history repeat itself from all these things and we know that you know we can pretty much gauge history tends to repeat after every thirty forty years you know. It's been a while since we had it, and now that this is the first style pandemic that we've had since real bad one I guess you could say the Spanish flu and essential twenties, right? All right. I'll use an example. The latest one, do you think that this is going to lead us into the next great awakening renaissance? Dude like our and music and. Fucking Lang Shepherd, it's just going to explode and we're not going to understand you think this is our. I guess in a sense because we're going into twenty right granted we didn't have a world war did back in one hundred years ago. But do you think this is our volume of world war? I. Mean we're losing as many as we did during World War. One. You know what I mean. For for whatever you want believe the faction whatever that's put aside. But do you see this US leading into the next roaring twenty renaissance of? The first century, hundred, hundred, million percent because look. We've only had technology for so long like ten years feels like a long time, but it's really not right. One years. Let's say since two thousand, we went cell phones and the Internet was a baby. We're still in the baby stages of all that. And I feel like the one thing that people aren't they're aware of it but not to the point where they're fully utilizing it for what it is. Technology in and of itself is a tool, it's a tool to put yourself out there like what you guys are doing right now with the. PODCAST. Is is a beautiful thing that's something that twenty years ago you needed a you needed to be affiliate with a radio station to live, but you can do it in the comfort of your own space and the same thing with music. The same thing with all art forms and I feel like if people really focused on that, we are on the verge of a revolution we are on on the verge of a revolution, a renaissance of art in all. In, all types of forms you know what I'm saying like with film with music. With you know painting what? Whatever, whatever the medium. APPs by is just it's endless but if we have to utilize it, we have to realize what it is and use it for that purpose. Instead of just making dumb memes, but I love memes don't get me wrong. I mean means are themselves aren't art themselves like There's so much deeper. We can go with a I guess you can take the the memes as the nineteenth century. Satire. Political things that people were making news you don't make those are not WanNa. Make some unless you're looking at the New Yorker whatever it is. You know. But it's It makes you realise like you were saying like it's we're going to be going into next great awakening. You WanNa call eight hundred were. On the verge I don't know if you saw on last Friday on muster his I live of the nearly no I didn't. So I know we talked about last time. Scary. For All listen to my last episode, talked about conspiracies and things like that. Definitely GonNA listen to it but pretty much elon musk is inserting a chip into. Well, it's out there but he was making it better. He's reinventing it to a better substance in two dodgy. But. It's going to be going into your skull and the chip is attached to your brain directly into the nerve cells and releases signals into electrical pulses, and where if you suffering from dementia Alzheimer's or you're paralyzed from an injury or things like that where these. This chip can send these electrical pulses to the nerves that are damage to fix it. and. You can move forward and I get it for the medical purposes for right now, that's where it's going to be used that but ten years from now you know that's going to be used for something else where it's technology based enhanced. Yeah. Be and I think that's where we're going to start seeing the human race. Evolve into its next. Form where we now move, we transcend from that three dimensional. I N. Dimensions really thing about for dimensional being. into. The fifth mentioned be where we can now start seeing things in a higher aspect have a symbiotic relationship with technology. I was talking to my coworkers about and he's like, what do you mean by that? You think it's a perspective. We are dimensional beings, but we only see in two dimensions. And you say, what are you talking about I can see Biden like thing about perspective if I tell you look at that TV, you know like at that wall, right you know that's three dimensions behind because you can turn and see it. But when you're looking right at it, you're looking at it two dimensions. You only see the front of that stuff and like this technology is going to take us to the point where now we become that being that we were scared of that is going to come down and visit us. Kind of like interstellar type of thing I feel that I actually do. I don't know dude it's so it's so interesting to think about and yes, we are on that path to becoming almost. Basically, cyborgs where we're we're so integrated with technology where it's a piece of us. We're like, we you know. Pull on her ear lobe and we can access youtube you know what I mean like. But if you think about that. Now, because we're bound to our phones, yeah. People want to admit it or not, and there's really technology best buy. You can go actor I was actually looking at went to go by air pods. You can see that there's glasses like normal wearing glasses the helmet a thing in the back of the Lens thing that connects the ear, the bone part of the ear where you can listen to music I've seen. I've seen the so this smart technology and things like that where it's like. You know it's now internalize even the here in the studio we have it's all connected through a smart home. You know it's all used by the NASA where it's all controlled by Google. You let me ask you something. Do you think that that's the right road to go down to where who we're at a point in life as human beings to where we're so reliant on something that? Is essentially finite because the phone is GonNa die like. A computer only works if it's plugged in, is that make sense? I think it is because. Our lives are finite to begin with true. There's we will have a beginning, but we all have an end. Yeah. Nothing's GonNa last forever, and if you back in history where you'd think about, okay, let's go back to the eighteen hundreds right It was such a simple way of living where you just make a farm. You do this you that and you go buy your day. But all right. So now you move down to the eighteen eighties you know same same century. And now you have the train. The engine. Ten years later you have innovation you had we're going into the industrial revolution, right? So I think it's necessary as a as a livable being of higher intelligence in which we need to make this progression we will say, Oh, but what about you know we're just it's humid it's bound nature by it's I think it's part of any evolution. If you look at it, there's been research done where you can now see apes chimps moving into their next form of evolution. So crazy because I've I've read and so. Much is now they're grasping the idea of how to create tools and how to hunt with spears nobody show them. The studies are in the Congo and have no touch nobody and they're starting to slowly get into that. So it makes you think that are we the next neanderthals that were if we don't move with that technology, we're going to go extend because the end of those are a sub species of humans. Where we have to make that progression to become next form of humans. And Look. And when people look back at one hundred zero thing we are the neanderthals of this time. Yeah and we'll be like you know you know how we watch like ancient aliens and Shit Right Where that we'll be like ancient Chebbi Ancient Chapa and ancient delivered with a three. I feel you on that and I mean I just think. It has to be handled with with kid gloves on at this moment because. Technology can help but it can also hurt a lot. You know what I mean I know I was just talking about how technology is a beautiful tool if we realize it for that but at the same time. especially with like. The progression of AI and the progression of Things like neuro link. They'll become a point in history where like in the future where? You'll have people that fuck with the neuro link augmented humans Cyborg ask, and then you'll have people that deny it one hundred percent, and then that will create a divide. And it's just interesting. It's really interesting thing about like none of the Shit's happened yet obviously sauce balling. I really think we need to as a humanity as a collective, a human collective. 'cause we all fucking together, Bro like we're all on the same rock floating through space. We need to really think about because technologies beautiful thing and we can. Divert and go which and use it for whatever we want to use it for. We really need to have a conversation about that like what do we want to go? Where do we want to go next season? I can also cantor that and say that that's part of the human way of learning. Okay. Because think about it ended nineteen four a thirties late thirties. When started the Manhattan project, you know the nuclear program was made for the intentions of ending the war, the skill as much people as you possibly can. Right and we did it and changed the world forever. But the silver lining behind that was is that because of that nuclear program, we now have the technology that we're using today for our lives with nuclear program. We're not going to space in the sixties Yup we're not creating microwaves we're creating computers we're not creating cellphones recreating the Internet. So you know what I mean. I think that that's part of the life that we have to go through that hugh is human beings we have to go through the trial and error stage always true to understand where we're GONNA go as their next the next step below throw this. Little curveball. A little. curveball combing? That's all another topic. That's another episode three with Dylan Brown but anyway. Now Dude thing about this. Going back to what I was talking about. And if you haven't looked it up already Nikola Tesla, look into him very important This stupid plugging lightbulbs into the ground and they were lighting up. You know so. There's so much untapped knowledge that we have that we haven't. You know learn about you know what I mean like it's been hidden. In so many ways because let's be real. Let's be real on on Ebay. Okay. We are Ron real nothing's uncut and everybody already knows this but money makes the world. Go Round. One hundred, right? So, why would i? Why would I show you something? That's free. When I can show you something that I have to charge you for. Thing about that, that was the whole thing with Edison and Tesla Tesla's version of electricity was free. Edison's version wasn't. So that's why Edison is the victor in history. I can pretty much say that it's like our Modern Day Must Jeff Bezos. In a way elaborate a little bit about that. All right. So let me give you this point because Elon Musk sees technology as being granted he's a billionaire he makes money off his yeah. Know Capitals Tesla and everything else. But Elon Musk wants to make internet free for everybody when I agree with his Starlink program where he's physically using his own money's his money. Let me slow down on money where he sending these satellites into space to provide free Internet to all of these you know. These places that don't have it so they can get access to. What we have. For granted, now you have his counterpart where someone like Jeff Bezos was he wants to do the same thing but he wants to charge to do it. So you know you making already someone who's really worked two hundred billion dollars and making them worth three, hundred, billion I mean. So it's like their counterpart in this modern day era. That's actually a great point. That's actually a really great point and you know what? I believe at this point in history because of how How important it is to the human race as far as like Inter having Internet access, you have so much available knowledge to you to make you a more well rounded person. That's a beautiful thing. I think, why should be a human right at this point? It has successively you know what I mean. Yeah. Think about it. We didn't have Wifi look. You know how much of a shit show is like I guess going back to us when we roam interest because granted, we had Internet it was wired. We didn't have WIFI GOING UP UNTIL I. Style up imagine we were going to school right now. Do, we would go. Like believable this is fifteen years ago. You can even imagine how it is. Now now it's it's crazy because you just hit the nail on the head before. Talking about the industrial revolution history repeats itself we're in the technological revolution right now and it started in Ninety S. With the technology but. We're slowly creeping this you know but. You think that would affect the music industry and everything that to. A you know what I've seen videos where you have this guy flexing this creation he created and he's like this ai I could you know it could it can make a song and five minutes and it makes a song and it's pretty good. But I feel like us. As humans we thrive, and we we need human to human connection because. I feel like we don't truly understand it yet. But. To be honest like to divert for a second. Man Creating the computer man creating the Internet has literally just recreated the human brain. Hundred Essence S in a way. and. We don't even really realize that. So all this shit that we're doing of ourselves, we already have inward I believe. You know to the point where you know I mean I've. I. Dip in Dabble into a lot of different topics. I mean I've looked into like I I met this guy in California who? He went on a retreat in Peru and he did EMT. Joe? Rogan. Everyone knows I mean we're not copying. Just everybody knows. But DMC's a big proponent of his podcast and I've heard things that people say it's opening your third eye. Well, listen to this. This is what trip me out because he was like he did he did emt in a different form called Iowa Ska, where you drink it instead of just smoke it. So the effect is more conscious, you don't 'cause I heard when smoke them to you pass out and you go somewhere else and you come back in like five minutes whatever. But when you drink it, which is a ritual that has been done for millions of years will check that thousands of thousands of years. But. He went down he drank it with a group of people. Some of which have done it before. And he told me that he experienced almost like. telepathic. instances where the people that have done it before. Like he had thoughts that we're going through his head that were judgmental of the people he was with. Okay. After the experience the people came up to him and we're like we heard what you were thinking. and. We forgive you. So it's like we're so much more connected than we give ourselves credit for at for all of you listening don't know what GMT is. D. T. is a natural. Or synthetic. chemical in which your brain produces right before experiences death looking for it. So you can find like said in a natural state through plants or synthetically made through a laboratory. So people tend to take it to the experience that next level thinking for all you who don't know who it is, but that's crazy that you know that the experience and I don't know man. Interesting. Not. But I just think that. I feel like if we looked inward as a species. We would we would tap into things that we wouldn't even think are possible. You know what I mean instead of always looking outside of ourselves for the answer is no one hundred percent do you think where a? Multi planetary species. What do you mean like we could survive another planet? Well, do you think like in ten years were colonized Mars or the moon, I don't see why not I, see why not would you go? Plug it. Good Deal Brown. We're GONNA. Make to them to the moon or Mars. Only I would only go if it was already set up like I wouldn't be the first you know what? Would be. The first. Guy. I, feel, I would want to be one of the first to go up and let me tell you why telling me because it comes a moment where you can you know and this is gonNa Sound Cheesy as it is as you probably hear in like fucking movies and shit like that. You have that moment to be the first. Okay and I take this and I say movies because I was watching a movie hidden figures where you know. The. African. American ladies were the ones who have the calculations to help the men go to. Orbit the earth and come back the first ones. And she goes and fights the court case and she's like judge. Who are people remind you of? Would you be the one that typically refuses me? So I can go and get my masters or will you be the first that allows me to do it And I don't know if it's I don't know where it comes from, but you know. It would want to be hold on. Let me get you to the bureau. We ended up the beer we're diving deep. And I don't want to. You know it's like, do you want to be the I? Do I want to be the pioneer that led the way. For my next generations. To be to survive and seen things and experienced things or only the average Joe Shmoe that just. contemplated. But never actually did anything about it. You know what you're saying but you know it's crazy. Is that so many people live that life right now but their? Their aspirations and their dreams of being the first to do something are early. Sense. But. Yet, that's why we had to go. At, Earth. Okay. Okay. Now I feel to feel you too i. just feel like we have so much unfinished business on earth like we haven't even tapped into one hundred percent feel that and that's why you actually. GonNa. Make quick transition here. That you say, the aspect of. The average show life who don't want to go out there and do it. What do you have to say to those people man fucking do it too because you got one life Bro, I mean for all we know you have one in life. So you know what if you have any dreams aspirations and he gut feelings? That are driving you in another direction than you're currently living. Go for that because that gut feeling. For All intensive purposes is God himself speaking to you. You know what I mean. I've had so many gut feelings that have ignored and it's brought me pain. I've got feelings I've gone with and it's brought me joy. Does that make sense hundred percent you know? So it's like society has all these things all these boundaries they wanna put you in a box where like You know. You as an individual. Most people define themselves by Oh my God. What kind of movies do I like? What kind of shows do I watch on Netflix? What kind of music do I listen to? That's me but that's you. You know like you're putting a box. And you define yourself by that bias. But what you really doing is limiting yourself to that because human beings are so. infinite like I it's it's insane like we have so much potential. Every single one of always wants that the complacency. Of being comfortable where we are and we never really you know comfortability is the worst thing you can feel. As, a human being because what I truly believe is that You know. I. Know we're going really deep but this is talks which is about Cohen deep. We're as having a human experience pro. We're souls having a human experience while we're here we're here to enjoy. We're here to experience everything that life has to offer because life is a gift at the end of the day like. Anything we want we can have. In that way. If we. Believe that we deserve it in a way. You know what I'm saying like if you think if you have if you have some talent, right like let's go to music real quick you have some talent and everybody tells you like Oh you're actually magill. What are you doing with this talent like Blah Blah Blah Blah. You'll also have the people that are like, Oh that will never work will like go to go get a real job whatever. If your soul is telling you like, let me go for this one hundred percent even with guys like doing your podcast and stuff like. I feel like this is something I really want to do because it brings me joy. You know like it gives me a sense of fulfillment I it makes me feel like. Great every time I do it I feel like I'm working towards something. That's a beautiful thing going feeling because that feeling is going to bring you. Joy Plus you know what I'm saying. And that's truly how I feel because so many people fail because they doubt themselves. Being. Doubtful of oneself is the greatest sin of all time Matt and I'm a big proponent of that. I think that in life you. Want to take the risk of where you want to do, and we'll have that you know that dream and I don't want to ever want to hear someone say, Oh, I don't have a dream because we will have dreams as everybody's injuries. We will have a dream that we want to accomplish in life and we want to do. And it's. My biggest thing is about. Speaking things into existence hundred percent you know. Have you go about? Your Life and saying. You. Know this and this, and you want to know not being pessimistic because there's people who are really pessimistic and just bring you down. But you know you would want to know what you want and you have. You don't have the idea that that's what I want. That's where I'm going forward. Then what's the point of doing it? People ask why are you making it podcast? I didn't make this podcast for anybody else but for myself selfish is low but it's not selfish. Because, that's what's going to make me happy I enjoy doing this. Am I getting paid for it? Know How I put money at my own pockets to get the systems like this? Yes. Hi My partner would people to many things hundred percent but you know what? At the end of the day it's what I like to do and forever who wanted. To listen to it, fuck it listen to me if you don't want to listen to me don't exactly know if somebody wants to give me critical advice and say, Hey, you could do this this this is I'll listen to you because you know I'm not perfect and I acknowledged that I've heard things people gimme advice all the time and I fixed it. Where I wasn't week once where I am now, I feel like I'm one hundred percent better. And it's the things that you build but you have to know where you're heading the direction and people say, Oh, you just don't like. Doing this for the money no. I'm not really you know I'm doing it because it's something I've always wanted to do now if the money comes. Sure can make a living off of this. Sure like anything else like music whatever it is. But yet to at least try, and that's what I always try to tell people. It's like Yo. You did it. You know you made a big leap in you said fuck it I'm leaving New York and California I don't know how I'm. Obviously not by an airplane, but you said Fuck I'm GONNA to get there I'm gonNA figure it out. You know whatever it is. I'M GONNA figure it out fuck and I wish more people were like that because like you say we found his sense of complacency. And see unfortunately that work a lot. And it's heartbreaking because. I wish these people, would you know do more with our lives and? At this point because. I work in a marketing company whatever and we do manufacturing things inside and building and I see these people risk their lives coming from other countries because I'm not gonna lie them Madrid who work in his factory are. Immigrants Where they come from South America central wherever they come from excuse me they come from but they risk their lives to come here to live that dream. And you know people say, Oh, why are you not mean to them? I'm empathetic tourism. Give these guys such a hard time. Because, I was in their shoes at one point in my life where I moved here, my family with nothing. I was young granted. It wasn't my decision I was forced to come here but I saw my parents work hard for what they wanted in life and they still even even to me I. I had to learn English It wasn't something that was easy and I can't stand when people say oh, well, you got to be empathetic. No I get it because I've been in their shoes where. I know how it is to grow up and people look at you different because you're not from here. And I'm not talking about race and things like that because we live in a very diverse area. I went to high school with you. We were to say a football team it's very diverse but when people know that you're not from here, they look at you different. You know you're that foreign kissing business, but that it shouldn't stop you from doing what you WanNa do. It gives perspective fuck it. They don't think I can do it. Then I'm going to do it. You know people say, Oh, what's my dream granted? This is what I'm doing is one of my dream like in a public forum zipper my dream in life and I'll put it here on record with I or not up to me I mean, it's up to me, but there's has its hand to where I would love to one day run for office. I would love one day to be a congressman to be up there and trying to help people or a senator or whatever it is. I have legal things to go through I. see gets that because if it was was able to I would be doing it the because you know I'm not one hundred percent full American citizen I'm not ashamed of that. That's my life. That's me but I can't do it and I wish you know people would. Finally acknowledged their dream in life actually go free. There's nothing worse than you've seen it before where so has the talent and dry for it, but they don't do anything with it too, and that's the most heartbreaking. Anybody can see to another beautiful quote from Bronx Tale, because I know quoted it before feeding catch it. Sonny Sonny says himself Bro. The saddest thing in the world is wasted talent hundred percent you know and that's the thing like the only reason t talent goes wasted is because you let. Doubt Creep into the point where that becomes reality. You you. You look at yourself in a different way where it's like I'm not good enough. There's no possible way that I could elevate myself from a level of where I am right now to the level I want to be or where I can see myself being. And that's a sad thing. Bro, but. I think you know I'd go back to this one. This one quote it's actually from the Bible I'm not the biggest Christian in the world but I appreciate it for one thing before you talk about about. And Sophie there. It's being used to the Bible and people always say Oh Lacina. I always say this people even if you're not religious person, I would advise you to go out there and trailer every religion hundred because it's an eye opening and is another several awakening that you're trying to learn continue to. One of the greatest one of the greatest quotes I, I've ever heard. Everything, under the Sun has been done everything under the Sun has been done. So why can't you? Like? That's not part of the quote but everything under the Sun has been done. So My Response to that is so why can't you do it to? What I'm saying that's your own limited. Your limitations are set by you. Because nobody, you can let outside things affect you. If you choose two hundred percents, I'm a big proponent of that to, and you know what's funny. You say that because people say oh In America and twenty twenty. Being poor is a choice facts and people may not take that. I said and people might say, Oh, well, I was born disadvantaged. I was born. Bullshit. All right you. Born American citizen born in the United States of America in two thousand twenty. In the era of Internet technology up. Being a poor being poor as a choice because you have all the opportunity whether you coming from a system where the schools aren't the best you can go to a library. You can go to get the answer you can teach yourself these things straits will help you in life. You know it's like it wasn't the nineteen sixties record understand words little different where you were born disadvantaged to work harder to get where you are in life where you could sell shit on craigslist. Ebay or whatever let go you know what I mean like there's so many. There's so many avenues that's going back to before like. I'm holding a phone right now for the people listening I'm holding my phone I'm literally holding a super computer in my fucking hands I can can act. I. Can speak to anybody around the world I could talk to so many people. I can like take a picture of something I'm going to sell set a price and sell it to some guy five states away and that's money in my pocket. So what you're saying is very true and going back to my point before you need to be aware of that fact and utilize it for what it is and be grateful for it and Use It. You know what I mean that's that's really it. I have to pay. I'm back from taking a all right sorry about right there but we had a empty bowels. But. Continuing on that you know. You ended saying about creativity and ties back to the beginning we were saying you know it. All starts were look at these people on talk these kids you know they're gen Z.. They're growing into a where we didn't have that. We had smile space in facebook and but now there have on their phone now. This creativity that they didn't have before they have, and now they can make their lives off being social media influencers. It's it's insane. Because the opportunities that are available to us. Now, ten fifteen years ago were. On fathom if you told me fifteen years ago that you can be rich by making video of dancing. Yeah. I'd be like Stone Mountain. Your fucking. And fifteen years where we are right back in this room. In beautiful studio. Recording. Talks which EPA talks whichever pleasure. Thank you bro and I know you have a Plan tonight. So, this comes to the conclusion. Nice pause because I'm going to have you back people love and you're here, they'll have here in Utah. It's what I heard. So. Dylan. We are now coming to the end of this episode. That's life part two part. Dose to. What you WANNA say to the people what's going on in the world of Brown? What's going on the music? Where can people find you? Where can you reach out to you? And just let them know. All right. So. For All of you the don't know. I go by the name Dylan Brown with a three instead of a B.. And you can follow me on. Them at that name and also look up all of my music. On all streaming platforms under that name. Dylan Brown di Wai L. A. N. Three R O W N. Que. Secondly I WANNA say to everybody listening right now you are beautiful. You are infinite. You have so much potential just waiting to be tapped. Believe in yourself. and. See where it takes you because it'll take you. It'll take you a lot. It'll take you very far. To the moon back. To the Moon to Mars and back that's even for ago. And God, bless thank you for having me. I always a pleasure. Thank you Dylan. You are one of my great friends. We've known each other for a long time blood sweat cried together, tears so many to so it's good to have you here I appreciate you and everybody. Thank you for listening to two days episode. We are great to have you here I. Hope you're all staying safe during this covert era. You know where to find me you know what to do follow me on instagram at talks with Chebbi. Hit me up on twitter at the real don't. Follow me on facebook leave me poker comment at Willie Florez and of course, you know where to snap me at Willie Flora's sixty three. So everybody. Look out for this episode coming out Lee commonly. Paul's let the people know Dylan again. Thank you for being on. And Yeah Man. Will see where this month goes and how the year ends everybody. Oh. Yeah. But it's only getting better. It's only GonNa get better from here. Buddy if you follow have a dream, go follow it tell your loved ones you love them because I love you. So everybody see you next week.

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Mary Powell Stepping Down as Green Mountain Power CEO

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:29:58 hr | 11 months ago

Mary Powell Stepping Down as Green Mountain Power CEO

"From Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Ramsey show on wd. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most most to you. Now here's your host. Dave Graham. Morning reminded his Monday. December the sixteenth. Two Thousand and nineteen and No one birthday at their shop Smith. Happy Birthday shop if you're listening. He's the former speaker of the house and an active attorney these days. I think you've round Vermont and and Anyway We have a good show lined up for you today the My first guest is going to be married Powell the outgoing CEO of Green Mountain power. She yeah departs at the end of the year having announce that I think last Back in September and We're GONNA be chatting with Mary. Big Transformation and energy in Vermont the last really Years that she's been at the helm of the state's major industrial Excuse me an investor owned utility and later on in the program program. We're going to have a visit from Robert Appel. He is the former defender General of the state of Vermont and former director of the state. Human Rights Commission Roberts always has been something of an iconic last a very thoughtful and interesting guy who May Have some things to say about the current situation and the he thinks longstanding situation at the women's prison in South Burlington the children in regional correctional facility which has been much in the news recently for unhappy reasons. So we'll be hearing from Robert Robert later on in the program but let's get right into it with Mary Powell my guest this morning for the first hour here Mary. Thanks for coming into the studio. Always a pleasure to see you and and we We are Intrigued by Your I. I I really want to get your thoughts on the overall arc of the development element of electrical energy in energy in general in the state of Vermont. Let's say you you've been at Green Mountain power about twenty one years so really the entire millennium so far and that a little bit yeah and a bit. Yeah exactly I started in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and And you you became. CEO In two thousand and seven was it what was announced late. Two Thousand and seven I became CEO in two thousand and eight. So most of the time. It'd be Jodi Return. There has been at the helm of Green Mountain power for the company. Some big changes Let's go through a couple of them one. You moved your headquarters. Yeah Yeah that was very early on after I joined Green Mountain power as you know back in the late nineties. There were some challenges. I actually I finished the interview process. I went on a little family vacation before I started and in the time I was gone on vacation the company got a really significant rate order in essence that put it on the verge of bankruptcy and that really became Don't waste a good crisis that really actually became The launching pad for complete and absolute transformation of the company and Yeah when I started hearted one of the reasons I turned the job down. Actually a couple of times is because the company was housed. This thing that was known at the time is the glass palace because it kind of was Bagan intimidating for a local Vermont Utility missiles in South Burlington South Burlington. Yeah it was a massive glass building and you're sort of like the classic a one thousand nine hundred eighty s or seventy suburban office park. Exactly I actually felt like when you drove up but looked a little bit too much like a college campus. To tell you the truth And and it was very you know you came into a stone lobby and you had to go stone stairs and get through to private secretaries to see the CEO who had a private bathroom private conference room. And as I said to him you realize you never have to see customers or people that work here right so we set about changing that together other actually way back in the late nineties so mu yeah sold that sold that building. That was the first big move that I did for the company to Not just just launch a cultural transformation but also a cost transformation. CEO It was really about dramatically reducing costs for customers so you move to Somewhat funkier place up in Colchester and I remember visiting up there a couple times and walking into noticing that Kind of reminded me of a newsroom. And it was you know. Newsrooms are typically wide open spaces where people are just working at open. Desks Center on a lot of a lot of spaces to escape The scrutiny it New Year Co workers or anything the And and that was sort of that kind of sending you actually If I recalled have I've worked at a at it in in this wide open space here absolutely you contrast that what I described when I when I interviewed and came to the company and and again we acquired it. Is You know Central Vermont Public Service. which was much the same way in terms of how they utilize space? And Yeah if you came to see us now it's it's not just wide open but it's colorful 'cause color translates to energy so it's colorful and I work actually at a standup table now. I don't even work at a stand up desk anymore table with the three other people so we really emphasize collaboration at open transparent Cost Effective. It's also really about not just being cost cost effective but also being low-carbon an incredibly sustainable and in what we do and now that is another big change you just mentioned that green power our has gone through. which is it's it's overall sort of structure you acquired central amount? That was later that was like what two thousand dollars that was after I had been and CEO for about Yes for years. I think I think you got it right. Two thousand twelve and Required and that on Vermont basis racist looked like kind of an unusual thing. Where typically when acquisitions happen in corporate America? It's a bigger company swelling up smaller company in terms of customer base. You smaller it was the smaller of the two companies. That's absolutely correct. Yeah it was a little bit of a David and Goliath story so but it was. It was all about really an extension attention of kind of where we started the conversation. You know the the reason that I I initially led the transformation of the company from a cultural perspective and a space perspective was his way back in the late nineties. It's because I was able with a team through that work to generate about eight million dollars a year in savings for customers which was not not an insignificant amount way back in the late ninety nine hundred ninety s and again. We saw the same opportunity in bringing together The two investor owned utilities in the state. And making them into one That was we like to say would be fast fun and effective for customers and really focused on being cost effective effective and and again as you know also a lot of efforts to also drive carbon out of the system being both our own internal operating systems as well as has the portfolio we provide Vermont irs. Well let's talk about carbon for a few minutes because obviously is a huge theme in the in in every discussion of energy these days days how to reduce the carbon footprint and energy production A big and it has been quite a bit of progress on that in the electric sector. it tell me a little bit about what what are the biggest steps that Green Mountain power and other utilities. GNP's middle leader so go ahead and take some credit here Home what what what steps. GNP taken on to say let's reduce our carbon footprint. Yeah we are. You're right we're really Pleased that we're at ninety percent carbon free right now in the portfolio. We provide for monitors as well as about sixty two percent renewable so That was because we launched a real vision and a plan around it right back in that two thousand and eight timeframe so I worked with The leadership team at that time to launch a vision around getting to a low cost low carbon incredibly reliable future for our customers simply because we're customer obsessed and we're not just obsessed obsessed with the planet were obsessed with our customers and our customers happen to care deeply about carbon about renewable energy. And so we really felt it was. It's time that we needed to step out and really take a leadership position on that so that has been y. We have really transformed the portfolio oil. Because we set out to do that with all the other amazing stakeholders in Vermont. That are important to any kind of transformation. So it's a what's that last ten percent of carbon. Why are you still any left? Well we operate in New England and we have we rely on some system. Power and New England is fueled a lot by a natural gas plants so as well as still some oil in the peekers etc so As but as you know the spring being with the team we launched a new and improved version so not just about going to a community home in business based energy system. Like we've been working on for years to make AAC Vermont more resilient in the face of climate change but also we launched that we wanna go to a one hundred percent renewable one hundred percent carbon-free by twenty twenty five even one hundred percent renewable by twenty thirty and so the team has already done a lot of work in that regard so so it means a lot of the classic changes that would you would expect. It's part of why That we did build Vermont's largest wind farm. You know that was a really important part of getting to cost effective renewable noble energy for Vermont. It's why we've also really embraced. You know very early on we were way ahead of the pack. Nationally embracing distributed solar We were way ahead of the national pack in Embracing I think in fact we still are way ahead of the national pack in terms of embracing storage so so all of these things are really key to creating this brand new energy system. That can be much more resilient Vermont and lower carbon what we have to talk about the wind a little bit because we still have bliss out there who are not completely happy and a loyal Up in the northeast kingdom you know and and their their complaints are. I think they have some legitimate complaints. Would you say to the to the folks who feel like their view. Shed has been unharmed and they're and they're being exploited for power it's going to Burlington in other more populated places right. Well the good. The News about the kingdom community wind farm is actually is being used by Vermont. Electric Cooperative and Green Mountain power. So it's actually serving to power. A lot of the northeast kingdom through Vermont Electric Cooperative and it serving a lot of Vermont. A lot of rural Vermont through Green Mountain Power and has been really good resource for Vermont. you know what I also would say is those concerns and those reasons are exactly why I met with the we had mm-hmm major meeting. I think there was over two hundred people at a meeting in Lowell where I was very clear with the with the town in that we would not build the project. If they didn't support it and in fact we insisted on a vote before we built the project and as you may or may not recall it was definitely supported it and and in fact a lot of you know and we also continue to to Survey our customers through this whole time to make sure sure that they supported it. Do you ever get at one hundred percent. I don't think so I don't I don't know again. What we've tried to do is be loving and receptive and hearing anybody and everybody who has concerns but at the same time not stop moving forward towards clean energy future that the vast majority are telling us they want? So it's a you know so I feel like I really when I go back. I and I've gone over a couple times in my head because perfect is always wonderful but we got as close to two perfect as you can get when you're doing being something of that significance. Someone told me years ago that the thing to think about here also is is that all energy production is I kind of ugly and and it's impactful on the environment whether it's building the road up the mountainside to get the wind our up there or or whether it's the you're worried about the bird populations i. I mean just in the one case of wind power but if you look at you know mountaintop removal for Koehler. Or if you look at I mean I've seen you know there's a Lotta pictures I float around still online other other remind Yankee nuclear plant. Nobody built that place for looks right. I mean that's you know. Aesthetically is not real charming and so All energy production. It seems is is. It's never been built for aesthetics and a and and that's just it's a cost of our our modern world isn't it. Yeah for sure I you know and again when you look at any kind of infrastructure projects you know you're always going to be balancing different impacts and I'm trying to do the best possible job you can. I mean that's what we tried to do. Is the best possible job we could at embracing on all the different perspectives in views and getting that project online and we did. I mean it was. It was on budget and on time. And it's you know has produced really good results for Vermont. We have a caller on the line. Sam from Willison. Good Morning Sam. Yes warning how you doing good. How are you good? I'm not I'm not a big Dan of industrial when. I do my own backyards if I had my own when station might not be bad that I controlled and that I'm not big on taking over the rich drive and I. I don't see us really pursuing in this state nuclear where We probably should back in the game Bill Gates pretty well. Invested in now and the third and fourth generation the fourth generation not only will eat its own waste now My understands and can you tell me you Many people died and killer Accidents in this country is supposed to win farms. People dying from either nuclear accidents or wind farms. Yes I I do have some staff Sam all well I think it's about fifteen hundred hundred and wind farms from our people. Dying wind farms workers falling off the towers. Or I don't get it. Well yeah quite a few. Were falling off the salaries Just last month two or something Using the land the the rotaries notaries grabbed them and pull them into machinery In the landers killing them also solar is the same scenario You know so you have people working heights. That are dying fallings putting these operations in place whereas Lucia they haven't haven't had a desk so As far as worker safety goes The you got to think Green Bay I oh I think People working in the green industry and would be more beneficial to them all right. Well thanks thanks for the call. Sam appreciate it. That's an interesting perspective there. Mary Green nuclear is interesting Point of people a lot of people make this point in about nuclear power is the is the is it's low-carbon A lot of people say no carbon and I want to ask a question about that which is based on some reading. I did a little maybe a year years ago. About the Paducah plan as it was known in Kentucky Process Nuclear Fuel for all the commercial reactors around the country. I think it closed in like twenty thirteen. Same Vermont. Yankee closed coincidentally the PADUCAH plant Supposedly had had a peak load of its own in other words use of Electricity of AH three thousand megawatts and I'm thinking Kentucky that electricity most likely came from coal. Is that fair a fair. I think that's a pretty good guess that there would be a significant amount there. So if you're going to fuel your nuclear plant with fuel from this processing plant in Kentucky it has a peak power load food of three thousand megawatts of coal fired electricity. That's not zero carbon. Is it I I'm not real familiar with that. Plant let me speak to the general question though nuclear energy you know a part of how we are ninety percent carbon free right now is because we have the contract with Seabrook Hampshire so We have when we launched our energy vision back in two thousand and eight again. It was about low-carbon cost effective active Movement to the future. We really felt it was important to embrace Nuclear Energy as this bridge towards an even greener cleaner cost effective future so you know We have always felt that it makes sense to leverage. Whatever resources are are available? I think at the same time back to sort of our discussion about building kingdom community wind or any other kind of generation site. I think it is always been a stretch for me to imagine that there is going to be any opportunity around nuclear in the United States. So I've never we've never even contemplated that aspect of it but we have contemplated very much. How do we leverage the resources that are available because Yes if you look at existing plants like the one were purchasing energy from it is it is pretty much zero carbon now. One big trend in the nuclear industry of course years ago was a lot of the plants which started out with forty year licenses. Senses wanted to go to sixty year licenses which Vermont Yankee got approved to do before it decided to close for economic reasons I was just reading something and actually us over the weekend where there's talk. Talk now of trying to go to eighty years operating period for nuclear power. Have you heard anything about Seabrook in this regard. No I haven't actually so thank you for that heads up. I mentioned mentioned but no we. We haven't I know that there is a lot of folks that feel like in this. You know really. We're we're in a planetary crisis and as I think most people realize is and That I think is making a lot of people challenge a lot of assumptions. They had around what resources we should use for. How long And really back to safety to make sure that it's all done in a safe way and you've never heard any statistics About fifteen hundred people being killed by wind power view or probably not. I mean you know Green Mountain power. You know safety is a huge focus of ours. We always talk about safety first last and always we have actually driven down our our are injury rates Significantly were leader in the country on our safety statistics And when we were building the plant no I was is not made aware of any statistic like Sam referenced but as always when people mention things like that. It's peaked my curiosity and I I will look into it. Yeah that's I mean. It is curious and one thing I am. I just on on the note of safety There've been so many changes in the electrical industry Over the past just a couple of decades of people forget that is that a big part of the core of it is those guys who go out In an ice storm and try to string wires backup so the year lights. Come back on folks. My Hat's off for my hat is absolutely off to these guys because they mostly men. I mean I know it's GonNa sexist say guys but You know it is are there. How many actually? What's the breakdown? In these days. There are a lot of. We've worked really hard to recruit some women to the line department. We have a couple of candidates. Actually the trump leased about now. But it's been you know it is A. It is a yet grueling physical job to your point and not one yet. We've seen a lot of women moving into but A lot of the utility leaders have been working together actually patty at Wack Led a meeting and a group group to talk about. How do we bring more women into this into the line department safety? You're right. Safety is huge in. It's not just during storms. It is really really really important And you know and again we try to drive that message all the time because they're working in terrible conditions to restore power but even even in day to day work It is it is a really pretty intense position they have and I have deep respect. Yeah and Actually that's probably with things. Most dangerous was absolutely beautiful outside. You think everything's totally cool and aesthetic hidden on sudden something bad happens. Let's go to John Wall and Waterbury another call prominent John Good morning morning. Have you heard anything about them. Building a solar farm on that flat Two miles south of Bolton Open flat two miles south of Bolton. Let's ask Mary Powell. What are we know? Yeah no I have not heard anything in particular relative to that what I mean as you might know Green Mountain Power As a company really doesn't own and operate much of of the solar that you see throughout out the state of Armand it's it's independent developers that do those projects so we could certainly follow up for you because if it's in our service territory we would be needing to work with them on interconnection so we can if you email me and you can email me right from our website. I can help you find out I think it would be an eyesore that One of the few remaining undeveloped fields and the solar panels would go right next to the road instead of setting back. So I think we're kind of me sore but that's my opinion right all right. Well thanks for the call. John appreciate it. Hey I I wanted to mention speed solar. Is this project that I I was intrigued. By visiting a couple of years ago down at Rutland he built a whole bunch of solar on on an old landfill down there. And then there's a couple of would look like tractor trailer a the trailer the tractor trailer full of batteries. Tell us about that. Yeah absolutely so. That was a very exciting project. It's still is. We built in a number of years ago and it was really about pairing solar end storage and about really appropriate or good land use so We had a landfill all site and we thought what a great place to do a solar project with some partners and to pair it with storage and apparent away where we can keep the what is used as the emergency shelter for Rutland we can keep it powered through any kind of Climatic event so it was also about dramatically improving resilient and so when you pair solar and storage you get a lot more energy out of it as you would guess and you can really have much more flexibility on when you use energy that comes from solar when you pair it was storage but it also provides this incredible resilience benefit for the city of Rutland. Already we're GONNA talk about storage on the home basis so we're GonNa talk about a whole bunch of other energy topics including I want to get into some discussion about storage in cars in after the break we're going to go to the bottom of we our CBS news about a minute from now and Here what's up by on the National News Front and and a couple of words from our sponsors. Mary Powell is my guess. She's the outgoing. CEO Of Green Mountain Power. She's been with the company twenty one years. CEO for the last twelve or so and we'll find out a little bit about what's next for Mary very powerful and all sorts of Also stuff to come here. The Dave Graham show as we continue into our second half hour very shortly folks so Stay with us. We'll be back with foreigners to moment. This is Jack from the Warren store. Wishing you all a happy and healthy holiday season in asking all of you you to shop local heat local and visit local. The days ahead are getting darker and it looks like winter is finally here. Give yourself a gift of stress. Free Life Life by shopping eating in visiting local visit your friends businesses and restaurants and support their passion in performance. I know that they would love to see you. You the warrants store where funky friendly and almost world-famous the Dave Ramsey show a wd. We are continuing in the second second half hour on this Monday morning program here on the Graham Show and my guess is Mary Powell. She is the CEO of Green Mountain power for much longer. Mary win is your final the day on the job. They're the end of December. So it's it's coming right around the corner you are you. Are you feel. Oh you know it. It's been been an interesting couple of months. I'm so attached to so many of the people that I've gotten to work with all over the state that I've gotten to know and hear about their families and unshared things and so There's a part of it. That's that you know. It's the people part you know when you make any big transition. I think in life whether it's moving or graduating or whatever whatever it's it's it's that part of it that's bittersweet You know otherwise I I am very very excited about the future and about all the things that we have going on already as a matter of fact because you may have heard that accompany I founded in nineteen ninety four that my husband has been the CEO of for the last decade Eh. Just got listed as one of Oprah's favorite things so yeah so my so really day one when I'm done agreement power. I'm I'm going to be working with My husband Mark Brooks was spot the dog. So yeah because we've had just phenomenal unbelievable sales growth as a result of that got. This wound escaped me. What spot the dog? Oh it's a well. When I came to Vermont Vermont? We had a couple of dogs and We got really nervous at night and during hunting season that we didn't we couldn't find anything to protect them and so I- designed really before there was anything there was nothing on the market that that was blaze orange so I designed little collars invests for dogs. Some and I went door to door all the different pet stores and The BURLINGTON willing to free press actually did a story on me with my dogs in these little reflective outfits and it was on the cover of the living section back in the nineties and then all of a sudden all the local stores wanted to wanted to have our things and so You know it's come a long way from from then and Marcus taking has taken it in a lot of Uh Amazing directions over the last decade but yeah it was very exciting so she chose his puppy plaid Bandanna and his reversible Bandanna from from our spot the dog collection sells dog. Yeah Stephen as a comedian tells a joke about sort of on the same theme involves spot remover. We won't go there. Okay sorry over there so anyway so I'm excited about the transition and I already have a something really fun and that I adore adore because we also we raise a lot of money for rescue through the company as well. That's that that is an interesting side side. Note that I was not aware of so you he learned. I learned that. This is a great thing about this program for me folks. Is that Nice. Consider myself so lucky to have this job because I learned all sorts of very interesting stuff here all the time on the Dave Ramsey show and w the FM and am. If it's half as fun for listeners. I think I'm doing okay. Hey a guy from Berlin is on the land. Good Morning Guy Dave and hi. Mary Dave thanks for having such an interesting guests on Right Yeah Mary coming okay. Well thank you Mary Rides. I'm actually not calling about nuclear But I am very interested in how she sees the future of Vermont's aunt of GNP's Joe Quebec contracts. There has been some talk about Perhaps not reaping some concern about environmental mental impact. And I'm wondering how she sees that playing out and also The what are the carbon ramifications of that. That's a great question guy. Thank you so much for bringing up Hydro Quebec and I think what we're GONNA do. Actually if it's okay is going to go back a little bit more to square one here and and ask basic questions about this. I think a lot of our listeners. Only vaguely aware that we get a lot of power from Canada Mary what percentage. EMP's power comes from each. It's it's lower actually way lower than it used to be so when I first came to the company The vast majority of the power was sourced through two places from Yankee and hydro-quebec right and so as we launched our vision way back in two thousand and eight to move to a much more renewable also diversified portfolio. So now how we you know we did. We were part of the renegotiation of a new contract with Hydro Quebec but it is much smaller percentage. I believe any of the current numbers about twenty four percent. And we're pretty late in the term of that contract now No no I know it still has a good. I would say a good decade left. Oh really okay. Yeah so no. It's and and you know really guy. Thanks for thanks for the question. And thanks for the the comment about your appreciating my being on the show You know as it relates to Hydro Quebec. I you know the reality is that most of the carbon is created when the dams are I created so so so the issue you know these are existing plants and so I would go right to what I said about the way. We've leveraged existing nuclear in my mind. You know we are in a planetary crisis from a global warming perspective and emissions are going the wrong way. They've actually as I was saying to Dave on break there. They're they're going the wrong way even in Vermont not because of the power portfolios actually the power portfolios are the only part of the Profile in Vermont that have gone the right anyway It is because of transportation and home heating principally that it's going The wrong way emissions are going the wrong way. So we firmly believe in embracing and leveraging every significant resource that has a very low carbon impact and in fact is a part of our contract with them we we have certification of the carbon footprint of the energy we buy from hydro back as a part of that contract. Now I we never that Back in the late eighties early nineties when these contracts were first week negotiated. There was a lot of concern For people who were allied with the with the cree Indians ends the native indigenous folks. Up there Worried about their their ancestral hunting lands and so on being being flooded by these big projects. A lot of concern back thin and then I think There was there was a fair amount of payments made to local folks living up in that area there that all seem to quiet. Hi it down for quite a number of years just recently. I've started here. Some maybe rekindled concerns of you. Oh I think there was recently. I think there was one story. So that could be an an and you have the history very correct Yeah there and again. Those issues were were very real and very significant and there was a lot of work done. Um You know for you know to reach some kind of Oh No compromise you know and again it it hearkens back to our conversation about kingdom community wind You know they're they're really the reality polity is society uses a lot of energy. And it is you know it is you're always balancing Different needs the different challenges and some that are very significant but they must all be faced. If we're GONNA make this transformation pretty fascinating stuff. I remember Speaking of the transformations this is. This is kind of remarkable. What if you look at the overall arc of history or even sort of human evolution here the electrification? I remember there was a national group. I'm trying to remember which one it was rated electrification as sort of the number one Technical Development Element of the twentieth century. Right around the year two thousand eighteen. They said what's the automobile as the airplane. Electrification was the number one technical development of of the twentieth century. And if you look at this it's kind of amazing to think that this whole business has really been thing for about one hundred years ears. Yeah it is and actually you remind me of one of my favorite speakers when we went to that that we had that meeting in Lowell with the town and end obviously anybody could come up in share. Whatever they wanted to an? Oh my gosh. I wish I could remember her name. But it was an elderly woman. came up to the microphone. GRA phone. And she dave. She talked about that very issue. She actually and in fact. I wasn't sure where she was going if she was going to be. In support of the project or against the project because what she Hearken back to was. She remembered the town meetings in Lowell about poles and wires coming to town and there were a lot of people opposed to it uh-huh and she talked about that and she talked about you know but electrification came and then for her it was a segue into why she was supportive of Kingdom community wind and because she saw it as much the same type of issue I it used to be called progress. Maybe it's still you know it's so the people are so sort of skeptical and cynical in his In this age as we enter the new millennium here. But I mean can you. Can you imagine I don't know one hundred years from now they're being somehow somehow some completely different form energy where ally I actually can't so I mean and that gets to a lot of the innovation and a lot of the work that we've done I mean as you know the companies binny's had just recognition after recognition from everything from fast company to regular utility media outlets about the work work that we've done the innovative work but it is very much I mean about seeing a future that is way more community home business energy system so I think particularly in rural America There is going to continue to be this evolution to smaller scale systems You know whether right now the the most obvious is the pairing of solar in storage. That you can do. And then you can make sure that your resilient through whatever climatic events happen and if you also also embraced what we're calling this sharing economy around energy so we're trying to take the same approach around as we think about local food and other local resources as we think about sharing those resources what we're able to do then as an electric company is drive down the carbon and the cost of the larger system for all all the other customers that we serve so I do think it's going to be a fascinating next century for sure Mary. I've heard talk that at some point in the not too distant future. There's going to be a wire going from my car to my house What's that about? Well I mean they're they're already is you know as we've moved towards it's strategic electrification. Thank goodness of transportation and home heating. Even though we have a lot further to go you already can have a sharing energy relationship with green mountain power. If your agreement power customer with your car and with your charger So that again you know. We're making sure that that the charging is happening happening in a way that's cost effective but you're right. The next wave that's been talked about for quite a while I will say is when we get to the day where truly it's super easy for consumers not just to have a charging relationship with with the utility or with the energy system that serving them but where they actually could power their home directly from their car so That is something that again. There's been a lot of talk of I Absolutely see that as one of the trends That will become more mainstream in the next ten years so we also have this this power wall unit that you folks are barking pretty heavily which people love in terms of what they do in the power goes out you can rely on these batteries in the basement. Yeah for sure I mean the the. It is such an amazing device both in terms of driving down carbon out of the system out of the energy system as well well as giving customers this incredible resilience. So we're finding customers really really value them. I in fact I have regular communications nations and customers some customers that I've gotten so close to that they want to know my new email when I'm leaving green mountain power because really because they become such Fans of the company because of the storage devices the power walls. So yeah it's been a great program and one that we're actively working with regulators now to make sure that it becomes a mainstream part of the service that Green Mountain power supplies customers so again it's a sharing it's in it's in a new sharing energy economy. Emme where if you have this in your home through our program We would be utilizing that energy to drive carbon out of the system by pulling from that. What device during peak days during times when energy is not just costly but very carbon laden in New England and then we also would be filling that storage device when it is the most economical time to take energy off the system? And what you as the customer get. is incredible reliability and resilience. I mean you literally don't even know Customers tell us I would never have even known I had an outage if I didn't get your text alerts saying I had an outage so yeah so they've really been fantastic. Pretty seamless it sounding. There's there's a And it seems as though so we're going to get to a place where the power wall which that's the Tesla battery pack. Model that as much in vogue these days will become. Can you tell me if I'm right about this. We will it become interchangeable with the electric car in the driveway in terms of being the backup storage for a house muscled so that I can. I rely either on my electric car or on right absolutely absolutely moving towards integrated energy system in the home is absolutely absolutely where everything is is moving towards in where we're really poised to help Vermont. That WanNa make that transition all right. Hey speaking of dealing with customers vary. Here's a tough one tough customer. He says wondering how Mary can justify receiving peer Wilson as the emails name wondering how Mary can justify receiving a two million billion two point one million dollar retirement package a one hundred thousand dollars a year. Bonus seems extreme on top of all the other benefits received. Just curious Peter. Thanks for the question Peter. you know the the interesting thing about this role is that I. I am in a position that that is pretty well compensated around the region and around the country You know the the actual package that's being talked about now is something that has had no great impact because it is something that has been accruing over you know a very long time. I've been with the company twenty one years and you know and so so it it it is what it is it is. It is a benefit that I was told I would have and that I'm receiving and that is comparable to do again the types of benefits of folks in this industry though I would say Probably a lot less than most a lot less. And in fact I think both both of my predecessors male predecessors received quite a lot more than that I you know who knows what what the capitalist system's GonNa pay people you look at some some of our professional athletes for instance. You gotta go. Wow have you how does somebody justify you know twenty five million bucks a year for pitching in a few baseball games. I don't know yeah one of those things. That is one thing that has been important to us. Though as long as we're on the topic because we are a benefit corporation and we were relayed delayed the first and I think still the only utility is Ben and Jerry said when they were there in the galaxy to embrace being benefit corporation. And as a part of that. Actually we've worked really hard dave to keep The compensation at the top significantly lower than our peers and look very very closely at the relationship between the frontline and the top line of the company. It's all relative sound high to some people here Vermont but maybe and a national conference of Utility. CEO's wouldn't be so let's go to couple are almost out of time here while John from Washington. Let's get John John. Jonah Donald Phones. Good morning more than how you guys doing. Well how are you doing John Excellent so I got two questions first question. What's the carbon footprint from the lithium minds in order to make the batteries and all this and then the second question is side the solar panels how this lays treated from from them? What's the plan to do with that? You know in twenty years when they actually You know their end of their lifespan. I'll hang up and listen and thank you okay. Thanks John Mary any thoughts. What's there yeah? Sure I mean you're absolutely correct there's a carbon footprint to just about everything And they're absolutely is as it relates to storage bridge and manufacturing and they're absolutely as as well related to solar certainly with the larger solar plants or with the solar projects Decommissioning thing is something that is dealt with as part of the of the process of the regulatory process. I seem to remember when we breathe. We emit carbon dioxide right. I think I remember that too. So just Yup. Living is a mammal here on Earth folks involves a carbon footprint that that seems to be the deal anyway. Thanks thanks for the call. We have another UH nope. Okay all right. I thought we had to. We only had one Mary I just a couple minutes ago here and I wanted to check in with you to find out what's next four. Mary Powell well as I said. I'm very excited because I have a job right away with my husband at spots spots a dog the dog. So I'll be. I'll be working on that and raising money for a dog rescue which is an issue. That's been near and dear to my heart. I won't go over the unemployment office anytime. No No I gather I won't and you know I have. Is You know I. I feel very fortunate in that I have had a lot of the opportunities. Come at me over the last couple of months and You know as I've said I just want to evaluate over the next few months where I see is the best place for my energy for my enthusiasm and for my desire to be useful to society and there has been some speculation out there just among among the chattering classes around Vermont that Mary Powell could make a good candidate for governor. What do you make of that? Well you know I I look at we. Have you know a very a popular governor in office now and I believe he's running again We have very very popular Folks in an office in Washington and you know and from my perspective The elected leaders. We have now are are doing a good job for Vermont so I would have to. I would have to see what the reason was for where I felt like I could be useful to Vermont. I who say this governor is doing enough on climate change for instance which is a big issue. I mean that's that's the thing for you right. Yeah for sure I have been very very passionate about I. I climate change for a very long time and in fact I'm proud of the work. We've done at Green Mountain power. I think that there is a lot of work that still needs to be done and can be done all right. Well Mary Powell WanNa thank you so much for joining me this morning here on the Dave grab show on Wd FM and am am. It's great talking with you and relations on your completing your tenure at Green Mountain power and good luck with your next steps. Thank you so much all right. We are fast approaching the top. Happy Hour here folks who are going to go to some CBS News. Get some words more sponsors and be back with more the Nave Graham show to follow barbells going to be stopped by a little later to talk to us about the problems at at the regional correctional facilities. Stay with us. Folks that's GonNa be a really interesting conversation This is Jack from the Warren store. Wishing you all a happy and healthy holiday season in asking all of you to shop local heat local and visit local the days ahead are getting darker and it looks like winter is finally here. Give yourself a gift of a stress free life by shopping eating in visiting local. Visit your friends. Businesses and restaurants and support their passion in performance. I know that they would love to see you the Warren store where funky friendly and almost this world famous. It's the Dave Graham Show on W. D. E. V. FM and am. We are back going into our second half hour around this Monday. December the nineteenth to I'm sorry December the sixteenth. Two thousand in one thousand nine hundred hundred kids fuse the day in the year we have a little period. Now we can open the phone lines. Let folks weigh in on whatever's on your mind out there. We have a little bit of a house. Vote on impeachment of President Trump. Coming up this weekend but you have any thoughts. That's out there. They'd like to share on that topic. Two four four one seven seven seven is the local number here in Waterbury one. Eight seven seven to nine one eight to five five is the toll. Free number can have Robert Appel. Stop by A little while he's going to be checking in with us this morning here on the Dave Graham Show and talking to us about his long-term view of what's been happening at the What used to be called the four CS back? I think it was back in. The day was a chicken hidden in Community Correctional Center. These days is chicken and regional correctional facility These days it also is used exclusively as a prison for women in Vermont and seven seven days about ten days ago now had its first of a of a bunch of stories. They've been running recently actually on problems at the women's prison in terms of Sexual Abuse Sexual misconduct by some members of the staff for now of folks are quick to point out that most members of the staff up there are are hard working and diligent folks who are not engaging in nefarious behaviors but You know takes one bad apple as they say and and so. We're We're we seven days has been covering the heck out of not only the problems at the women's prison there but also What appears to be? Maybe some awesome slowness to respond to earlier reports about these problems at the women's prison anyway. Long Story Short. Graham show is going to have a visit a little bit later this morning from Robert Britt Appel. He was for years. The director of the State Human Rights Commission earlier he was defender General involved in a lot of the folks who were going in and out of Vermont's what's correction system and Robert Appel has a really interesting perspective. On how state government treats people who have problems and he. We'll be visiting with us a little bit later in in this hour of the Dave Graham Show until then though There's just a ton of stuff going on out there in the news as always is it seems these days. is coming at us from all sorts of corners of politics and culture Let's go to culture for moment because there was a big story this This week is weekend about a What's become a bit of a cultural phenomenon? In the in the United States of America and I guess probably worldwide in the in recent decades and and. That's the the hallmark TV network they They were Running an ad involving being For a company called Zola and Zola. is a wedding planning company. They had an ad up that featured a A same sex couple of lesbian couple. who were getting married and I think there was some a kiss? That was exchanged on an ad that that came under fire from some DOC from a conservative groups from a conservative group and which complained to Hallmark and said you know you really shouldn't be running this stuff As an add on television and Hallmark said Oh gee okay well we'll pull the AD and boy that upset folks from the LGBTQ community And they were pretty much up in arms about it. reacting very negatively on twitter and elsewhere and social media to this this decision by the network that owns hallmark and sure enough Hallmark last evening reversed itself said. NO WE'RE GOING TO RESTORE THAT AD We're going to get back into good graces with this company. This client advertising client of ours called Zola The Wedding Planning Company and on they go And I'm just wondering wondering what what are folks think out there. I'm really curious to know what the listeners to the Dave grab show think was it Was it unwise to take the AD in the first place. Was it unwise to take the ad down once a conservative group. complained about it Was it unwise to put the ad back up now. which is the AD is apparently currently back up and Hallmark is pushing ahead here. And we're I'm really curious to know whether anybody out there has has any any concerns about that final indecision or look at it appears final now for the for the company t sale. Yeah let's go ahead and run this ad it's It is something that is really Created quite a bit of a quite a bit of news and controversy over the weekend. Just as sort of a something to think about. If you don't WanNa think about impeachment let's let's Let's try it that way Interesting story out of back into the political realm here. There's actually a Congress member of Congress from New Jersey who has been serving as a Democrat in the House of Representatives who is going to be changing his party to become a Republican. He is opposed to impeachment and There's a story I'm looking at here from CNN. Which says that much of the staff serving of this Freshman Congress from Congressman from New Jersey resigned on Sunday lawmakers preparing to switch the Republican Party Man's name is representative. Jeff van drew and I that's got to be a tough situation if you're an aide in a congressional office you're part of this team supporting an elected official PLO slash politician Who definitely is Steeped in a political party in most cases a member of Congress all of a sudden that member of you are most likely I would think someone who's a strong supporter of that The flavor of politics of this happened to be a democratic member of Congress from New Jersey so I would imagine five AIDS office would be strong Democrats themselves and interested in pursuing. The party's agenda and how all of a sudden the boss comes in to work one morning. Says Hey guys I guess what. I'm going to be a Republican from now on. That's it's gotta be weird And I'm sure it would be equally weird if the shoe were on the other foot if this were Republican members of Congress who suddenly announced. Hey guess what. I'M GOING TO BE A. I'm going to be a Democrat from now on now. Of course you know the famous case he earns Vermont is about Eighteen years ago Jim Jeffords us. Senator for Rod. who had been a Republican Publican? I decided that he wanted to become an independent and that that does seem less Less drastic than actually going all the way to the other party especially especially in this day and age of extremely polarized politics in America You make that half-measure guess might be easier for the staff to stay on on and say well you know. At least I don't have to sign up with the other guys but In this case Here we have these Aides to Democratic congressman who all of a sudden come into work one day and find out their boss is actually going to be a Republican. And Wow what does that will be like Anybody have any any thoughts out there. on The situation for these folks working in the Office of Representative Jeff Van drew from New Jersey. He's not a supporter of impeachment. He's he's been a Democrat and there's been talk actually in the In this whole discussion about impeachment the impeachment proceedings against President trump at the going to be a handful of Democrats who come from MM swing districts district perhaps this supported president trump in two thousand sixteen. And it's it's. It's probably tougher some of these some of these members to say I'm looking in my district a lot of my voters You know they voted for me. Obviously because I'm in Congress and a democratic member of Congress and yet my my district also voted for president trump and now my fellow Democrats in Congress want to impeach president trump. And what am I gonNA do. That's a that's got to be a tough spot for the individual member of Congress. Well this guy's answer answer families. I guess I'll just go be a Republican and and I just I don't know why that Maybe it's other people. Don't regard it as funny as I seem to. Give them blacking here. But that's got to be as I mentioned a tough spot for for his staff to be in and we'll see what whether they usually the Folks in those jobs ended up getting jobs in other congressional offices or something that That that whole system down there on Capitol Hill has has a way of absorbing people when they need to and the so that's an interesting development there. The the the house is GonNa vote. Apparently Wednesday The House Judiciary Committee just published a six hundred and some odd page Report Today This is the House Judiciary Committee supporting the impeachment of President Trump And of course this is this is really really a very very divisive issue. This is something which many many people are upset about that. The congress is pursuing this There are many many Democrats out there who feel like the congress would be neglecting its duties to not enforce Proper conduct by President of the United States. And that if it weren't impeaching the president would be falling volley down on the job. But the they're they're quite a number of folks who are upset about this development so It we have a caller in line and see. What's on the mind of Fred from Ismailia? Good Morning Fred I was the last guest you have the president of GMT and stuff. One of the things that you didn't touch on was was Talk about energy efficiency and stuff It people planet a maple tree or maybe a couple of oak trees on there's south east side and stuff they get their house shaded they would save energy and they might not be able to afford to the energy EFFICIENCY UPDATES dates and stuff but acorns are free a lot of places and they could save energy by just having a tree and if the planet Per Street on the north side cut down on the wind and safe energy gets a really interesting point and actually I have a little bit. Just a very very cursory surreal experience with something like this because a few years ago my wife and I got interested in putting solar panels on the roof of our house. We have a house with a roof that actually gets a lot of southern sun exposure and it seemed like it might be a coup nifty idea to put solar panels up there. However this roof is shaded as is the front of our house by two you big maple trees and and when we had a contractor come over and look at perhaps installing solar panels on our ruth? The first thing they said was well. You'RE GONNA have to cut down these maple trees and I said well first of all I didn't really want to cut down these maple trees because the trees struck me as really beautiful and living things and all that sort of stuff. And it's got a marker of our property and etcetera we're sentimental able trees the The the other thing about it was trees are actually absorb carbon so I wanted to know I said. Is there anybody who can do do the math for us to tell us if we install solar panels will save a certain amount of carbon output right But how much carbon intake take. Will we lose if we cut down these two maple trees and this company was not at all interested in advising us on that and I couldn't really only find anybody else to advise me on that so I said well. I think we're going to keep the trees. Thanks a lot see. They're by no no solar panels doors roof. That is very day long story stories short or maybe long story long Does is does that make sense. He Fred does that. Yeah yeah well you know. The carbon thing is is a whole `nother you know Plus to the whole thing that If we trapped carbon And like I said ACORNS are free. You know maple. There's lots of them around. If you ask your neighbors. Can I take a you know. Three four footer and stuff that it'll shade it in the summer our our fall and we'll be able to get solar game in the fall. Of course I'm not a botanist or anything but ACORNS I have more to do with oak trees and maple trees if I recall but yes. Yes no what's that so we got to keep our tree straight here for it. It is I mean I think you raise some interesting and I like your idea. Actually of the shade value value of the of the trees. Any tree able ogre. Anything else really On a sunny side of the house because You know a lot of what you WANNA do in the summertime. It's cool things off and there's nothing like a nice exchange treated you that you'll have a good day. Thanks for the call really appreciate it. Roger from Whistler is on the line good morning Roger Warning coming days just to answer your question about the solar panels Yep We installed panels on our house in two thousand seventeen and The company. We bought him from has a Web Page that we can monitor our production and curiously nothing there it also tells us Since two thousand seventeen the amount of carbon that we have shaved would plant seven hundred thirty thirty eight trees while seven hundred and thirty eight so you mean is sort of offset seven hundred thirty eight reasons that right correct. WHOA SO in other words my calculator I mean? I didn't do the calculation. I didn't really know how to do it. So it sounds like my to maple trees could come down and I put up solar panels and in terms of just a carbon impact. I'm I'm way ahead of the game exactly and we earned our last. Electric Bill was minus the sport dollars minus four dollars so they pay four dollars. Is that other works right. Well yeah basically I mean. We've got a huge credit built up already anyway but you know normally we end up paying like Seventeen dollars service charge every month and so on. But that's a heck of a lot lot better than looking at one hundred dollars electrical bill. I that is a heck of a lot better. You're right so that's a very interesting Roger. Thanks for the call. I appreciate that so The game folks I get to learn stuff on this program for my own use. There's something advantage there. Hey let's go to Fred in Newburgh Warning Fred Morning Shave Your House. You can save on painting quite a bit. Son is the worst thing for paint. And I discover with the shaded side of the House and painful. Who has been on the on the sunny side of the house? Yeah you know. That's actually another other good point Fred son son on paint is Mate you paint faster. That is for sure. I'll tell you what I grew up down the down the coast in Massachusetts Music and Sun and salt air. Now that's a combo little stripped the paint job right off your house in almost NOT-I'm so we've got to be. Those folks are frequently painting their houses. Down there hey fred Good point thanks for the call. All right Two four four one one seven seven seven one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and we have The holidays are coming up. And I'm wondering wondering if I'm sure a lot of folks had some family gatherings or or friends over that sort of stuff. This past weekend What are your favorite holiday traditions out out there? Good good stories to tell about And maybe a new twist on an old holiday tradition that would get us into Into the spirit of the holiday a season here I think a lot of people I talked to these days are kind of drag it around and go. Oh I gotTa another chore on My List To Take care of. I gotTa Make Mail my Christmas cards. And and it's I I'm not I'm not Not Sensing the spirit out there as much as I as much as I've seen maybe in years past or maybe I'm being Looking at it through rose. Colored glasses is and and just being Stahl gic or something but We Are we are only about what ten days or so from the From the Christmas holiday Coming right up of course Hanukkah Hanukkah. Actually he's a little later than sometimes is this year so it actually overlaps with Christmas. I think it goes from a couple of days a few days before to a few days after so all the next week will be In peak celebration in a lot of households and a lot of a lot of groups of friends and workplaces places it Cetera and Makes for should make for an exciting time of year. And I know it's also It adds to the to do list in a big way this time. I'm year so just try to relax folks and don't get don't get all stressed out two four four one seven seven. Seven is the toll free number here WD Ev one eight seven. I'm sorry two four four one seven seven. Seven is the local number. The toll free number is one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five five and The The let's see I was going to go back to the story about the about the census because this it's really an interesting thing where for whatever reason California's pushing very hard to have it. Folks participate in the census. Of course California has very large urge immigrant populations to the United States whether what kind of an impact that Ha- that ends up having on on Census numbers for California you. You can only imagine Texas though as well as another state that is on the southern border with the United States obviously and gets a lot of folks coming across that border immigrating into the United States are trying to and and Texas seems to be Taking a much less Proactive stance regarding trying to prepare itself for the census of coming in twenty twenty sets sets the US census of course Up there very actively hiring Folks to actually do the do the door to door survey surveys and go out in count. Count The people. This is something called for in the United States Constitution. Every ten years the United States is essentially supposed to check its population and with the census. Of course Can come any any number of different questions and the The sentence is a tournament in an important event. I mean it may. It may seem little routines. Just another big government bureaucratic thing but it also has huge impacts on things like How much it can have an impact on on things like your congressional Membership how many how many members of the US House estate ends up having so it's a It is a very very important thing. The the census Is something that some people are nervous about it. You don't want to be answering all these questions Other folks are saying I'll stepping up and participating so important decision upcoming for MM citizens of Vermont and of the United States. Here's an here's another interesting topic here. Rudy Giuliani. Has Been tweeting this weekend. He's been talking about his ongoing investigation. Apparently in the Ukraine and the He is is Pretty excited about what he's fighting over there. Here's a story which let's see is about Rudy. Giuliani says president. Donald trump trump's attorney dramatically teased and later shared information via twitter Sunday. He said he gathered from hundreds of hours of research. In what many of his supporters hope provides damning information about the Biden families alleged dealings with Ukraine after hundreds of hours of research. I have have garnered witnesses and documents which reveal the truth behind this impeachment which includes no wrongdoing by Donald Trump. Giuliani wrote in one tweet. He alleged evidence revealed that corruption in two thousand sixteen was so extensive. It was police duty to ask for. US Ukraine investigation impeachment. His part of cover up extortion bribery. And money-laundering goes beyond Biden's also DNC collusion with Ukraine to destroy candidate trump. This is all according according to Rudy Giuliani's tweets over the weekend. He's been over new crane and our man in Kiev has been Looking into all of this folks he also claimed in another tweet that the Democrats impeachment is intended to obstruct investigations of Obama era corruption. He followed that with a number of allegations including extortion bribery and DNC DNC collusion with Ukraine to destroy candidate trump boy. He's got some stuff there. Let's see it I I this is. This is pretty pretty exciting. Enticing and maybe he'll he'll come out with some real evidence of the that shows these charges and this wrongdoing by either side whether Republican or Democrat it needs to be brought out it needs to be investigated it needs to be punished where warranted. That's what I say anyway. So there you go. That's going to be an interesting thing. Maybe series developments involving Mr Giuliani and his investigation. He used to be a US prosecutor in the southern district of New York. I'm sure he's still has some investigative skills from that old job and maybe he's getting something so we'll have to see what he's got. Hey let's go to bottom of the hour break for some. CBS News when we come back. We're going to be talking. Robert Appel longtime defender General Human Services. I'm sorry Human Rights Commission chief here in Vermont about the a women's prison in South Burlington. We'll be back folks. This is Jack from the word store. Wishing you all a happy and healthy the holiday season in asking all of you to shop local heat local and visit local. The days ahead are getting darker and it looks like winter is finally here. Forgive yourself the gift of a stress free life by shopping eating in visiting local visit your friends businesses and restaurants and support their passion in performance. ormuz I know that they would love to see you. The warrants store where funky friendly almost world famous now back to the Nave Graham show off. WBZ FM and we are back to do the final half hour of today's program on this Monday December the nineteenth through December sixteenth. Eighteenth two thousand nineteen getting my numbers mixed up this morning. I must have dyslexia or something. This morning I'm not sure exactly what's going on but Shopping days between now and Christmas. That's true too That was the voice by the way folks of Robert Appel. He's my next guest. He comes into the comes into our studio this morning with a lot of experience in state government and more recently the last couple of years as a private attorney over the Burlington area but Robert was our defender General for while. Oh he was the executive director of the Human Rights Commission and You know a lot about State governments care and treatment for people who have problems and Robert Pal. Thanks so much for coming in this morning. Dave always a pleasure to be with you and you actually nominated yourself as a guest on the program the other day and I was. I was glad you did because I said Yeah I bet you. Robert has a lot to say on the topic at hand in the topic's been at hand should have been handled. Ah Anytime early in the last number of years but Seven days at a terrific piece. Paul Heintz does I guess on my program now. Twice in the past two weeks had a terrific piece a week ago Wednesday so almost two weeks ago now talking about Problems at the was now called the chicken regional correctional facility ability the only women's prison in Vermont involving sexual misconduct and drug abuse and and Sexual Harassment Sexual Female Correctional Staff as well sexual harassment of female correctional staff. As well as you put it. So are these problems. Problems new hell. No I shouldn't have C C regulated station here. Now Robert you're going to have to go as deep as you can go into the language right I I so I've been doing this work for over forty years started. There were less than four hundred inmates defined this work. This work is working with people who were charged or convicted with crime as well civil rights enforcement back and forth between those two endeavors. And you're an attorney by training. I well yeah by by learning. I didn't go to law school okay. I wasn't investigator. Yep and when I started there's an investigator This was before the regional correctional facility built. And we still had like county lockups. I remember going to Cherry Street and Saint John's Johnson and you could not tell the inmates kept from the keepers. They looked like they acted like dress. Delight I think is important in this conversation to understand and that promote Vermont you have family members inside cages than you had family members locking doors and there's prior relationships from schools good blood. There's bad blood so it's a complex situation We've come some from that. Of course we've expanded greatly when I started. There were ten female beds and they were. CC foresees it was one way And it was mostly asleep. People who women who had engaged in extremely serious violent crime not like it is today where most of the population there and you got to a high of twenty. I think down around one fifty now. is in for property crimes Their victims of sexual actual physical abuse and property crimes are used to support drug habits so We've come a long way and we have a lot more way to go so when I was an investigator in the office I I heard Mike Smith and I heard Paul's podcasts in preparation for coming in the problem that we have in the state is everything goes to the office and I consider TJ colleague and a friend but essentially. It's an impossible structure. I have free many years. Push the idea of office of Inspector General Where you have somebody who is separate separate from the chain of command who has undivided commitment to doing the right thing D- AG's office Let me tell you a little story. I was an investigator investigator in the office. Civil Rights Division in the early eighties and W- There was a female officer in one of the jails. I can't remember which one whose as Monaco among her male colleagues was torpedoed. Ted's I hope that doesn't get again. I gotta I gotTa caution you hear about The colorful language. We we are. It's not cable or still I can't even say but I can't even I can't even quote the president. Sometimes he talks about certain well well hey countries and and I can't use that word in any case that that was how she was known in the facility so she filed a complaint with the office in the suburbs division corrections refuse to cooperate with the investigation. We've heard about failure co-op with investigations of late Issued a subpoena. Go into court on one side of the room. It's an assistant attorney. General representing the Department of Corrections on the other side is an assistant attorney. General representing the supports division trying to do it statutory duty to investigate while we were in front of judge. Moore's leader became Justice Morse and to his credit. He's not GonNa do this. You know you both from the same law. I can't. It's a conflict. Yes that was one of the reasons. Human Rights Commission was created in the late eighties to have some more independent structure. It did to look into problems particularly problems sort of Put in place by state government. Right the Human Rights Commission which I was consecutive director up for twelve years before I retired in two thousand twelve quote retired island's state. I'm still working Has a lot of work. In feud feud staff They have jurisdiction. They can investigate complaints by state employees regarding discriminatory conduct including the colorful phone terms. I I I mentioned many others and they also have public accommodations jurisdiction. So I if if an inmate is being racially harassed being called the N.. Word or other forms of discrimination have jurisdiction they very limited staff they they And then there's the private bar so You know I I heard Secretary Smith talk about outside and in my forty plus years in this work. I can't remember a corrections commissioner. who was from the outside? It's always been with two exceptions They will they were being counters. No correctional experience. It's always been somebody who's come up through the ranks and I think it's very difficult because of as I said earlier with the allegiances in communities term awful hard to hold people you care about accountable. Structural problem some city police departments Burlington is working on us. have sort of civilian. Police Commission's review conduct by officers comes in. Come into question. Dave you spend a lot of time in State House. I can't tell you how many years such a proposal was made got nowhere right. There was a citizens advisory group that was continuously proposed corrections. Ahs and essentially the governor when you said no I think you remember that I do. Yes you're right When Rob Hoffman was commissioner? He had an internal advisory. The group had no power and was basically window-dressing so if we're going to get serious about this we need to empower an external organization with teeth and resources to address these problems example. We have an ethics commission in theory right. Yep It's a half time position Has has no authority so. I'm not suggesting we replicate that The only thing I would mention is there are certainly a number of Out Side prison experts. Who I think should be brought to bear to try to clean up this mess I did hear Mike. Smith mentioned that there are certainly established National experts well respected who we could reach out to an external review. I'll let you get a word in edgewise. Well what is your sense of The the prevalence of these problems at the women's prison in South Burlington versus the women's Women's prison Wherever they house inmates in with female inmates? Let's say in New Hampshire or Maine PR- example. I'm not so familiar with New Hampshire and Maine I. I know there are two female prisons in New York state I mean I. It's endemic to the power difference right. Yeah Yeah Do the you would have. You would have correction staff with a lot of power now. How they use it in whether they use it as? That's the question about over in new. I mean you know you have somebody locked. Adopt talk about a captive audience and vulnerable. And I've been you know people have said Gee said the present commissioner under the newest recycled secretary have all said this is known from the past. Here we are years later. Beating the wringing in your hands and saying Oh we have a problem so this outside Inspector General's office Presumably somebody who had a concern about Let's say drug drug drug use by a shift supervisor at which is one of the allegations whereas my seven days the The person could conceivably contact the Inspector Donald Office and say listen to you guys got to investigate this shift supervisor up here and And by the way the person is engaged in the following patterns of Sexual Joel Misconduct. Right right and all of that would be investigated and presumably. F- if need be prosecuted by this independent agency outside outside of the Department of corrections outside of the services this independent entity and it just occurred popped into my head the other day. They'd never really thought of it. This way before but When I was talking with Paul Heinsohn with I've maybe one of the listeners was on the phone I and I said you know the leading you can always do is call seven days call digger? I mean the media out there. Think about how I think. About the relative responsiveness of the corrections. Bureaucracy versus the seven days reporter it gets that call David Clarkin you back to your days. Statehouse visited the Senate Institutions Committee where there was long and tortured debate about inmate phone calls. Yes in order to call out you have to have a number approved by the administration And you can't. Yeah just pick up the phone call. Somebody understood. Yeah so I'm not sure that's a meaningful Wave addressing this problem and the they The other inherent problems retaliation you know. You're you're kept person if you're in that entire community whether your keep were were kept if you're a rat if your snitch life gets very very hard very quickly. That's that that is a that is a difficult Patrol point as well Robert Capelle my guest this morning for this last half hour of the Dave Ramsey show talking about institutional problems in our state government. We do have problems in certainly at the women's prison in South Burlington The rest of the questions system isn't perfect either and we can talk about that a little bit but and And we have this problem. The big problems at the Woodside Juvenile Correctional Facility we. I can't breath I I I just I mean really does concern me that That these kinds the institutions in state government which are really very important roles for the state government to be filling to run these institutions? Are they're not. They're not being run very well. It doesn't seem like are. These are these institutions Robert Appel or are they just impossible to run or is the state. I'm not stepping up and doing a good enough job of it. Or what are we missing here. Okay again in my view having all remedies being internal I think both with Mike and Paul talked about the grievance process as a dead end So people don't bother to us if there's not a meaningful external complaint plane crashes. There's no reason for people to come forward and stick their necks out subjected to retaliation if there's not a meaningful chance of receiving relief and that's the common thing all all of these institutions right. Absolutely all right. Let's go to Johnny Callous. John's on the line. Good Morning John. Yeah Yeah Hi Dave. Hi I'm well Just for an interesting folders closure rob Appel and I have worked on a few cases personnel all matters when I worked at. VCA representing correctional officers. So what I can verify where rob is saying in terms of retaliation is absolutely true but more to the point About having an independent entity to evaluate to review allegations. Such as. We're seeing right now. The problem at the office is they serve two masters they have an obligation statutory obligation to uphold the laws of the state and represent the the public interest and at the same time they have an obligation to represent the executive giving conflict. They will always represent the executive interests server those of the public. And it's not something that the attorneys want to do at the office. I've had private conversations time and again with them. I'm and they are feeling so conflicted. Many of less their jobs because of certain case case situations they've been placed in and they've left because they felt so bad about what they're required to do And that takes place With state per personnel actions representing Human Resources Agency. It's IT'S A it's an issue with Representative our mental Aga are where they will know that a and R's Either Blind I set a vial. L. Are metal violations or issued a permit illegally. And they will do nothing about it So so what I want to suggest is That it's it's walk past time that that office and its roles and responsibilities were split into that as rob suggested. We had a public advocate. A an elected not an appointed public office of public advocate and Inspector General and now let the AG's office represent the quote unquote state interest this and the executive which which is primary responsibility if you look at the statutory duties of the AG is to represent the state in all actions brought against it. Well and I've had that conversation with former system agee's and they say when push comes to shove if you look at the statute They their first obligation is to the executive and when he executive is not acting in the public interest there they represent the executive. We've seen that with five. We've seen that back in the dean days. It was really bad head over and over so I feel like I'm pretty. Well thank you for the call. I think really interesting perspective here because you've been around this for a while too right yeah So I'm fortunate position having a now introduce myself as a has been as opposed to never was so I left state government the end of two thousand in twelve and now I can speak freely without fear of retaliation against me And as you say I've been around a while unseen a lot so I feel fortunate that I'm still able to come forward and share my observations with you and your listeners. Yeah sure we. I'm glad you're able to do so as well. So the I mean I think the idea of setting up an independent entity is probably one one that the legislature may want to look at it and maybe finally be prompted to. Are you hearing anything about that. or their lawmakers no no again I have to refer back to the development of an ethics commission mission. pushbacks always been. We don't want more government. We don't have the money we don't we don't. We're not terribly interested. Which is unfortunate to me? The one dimension BEF- see we're reaching. The top of the hour is the issue of off loading by contract. These core governmental functions including custody of Inmates Mississippi but even worse than that is the mental health and medical contractors who are Holy Holy Unaccountable US representative gentlemen who worked for corrections monitoring contracts when when he tried to hold the contractors to the terms of the contract he went away they got so. That's a lot of money. And that's a lot of money going out of state. And I I just think we really need to rethink how we provide those services. I do think that there is a A tendency perhaps to want to you do the minimum and kind of throw the problem away not much of a constituency and right there about a lot of campaign contributions coming Out of our inmate blocks at the correctional facilities so And that's that just sets up a very tough institutional bias. I think if you ended up with a situation where you had an inspector general is elected officials. You described it. The attorney general then very well could be appointed by the governor. It's a statutory physician. Um It happens in other jurisdictions New Hampshire's like yeah the Attorney General's representing the Governor and the executive branch that at that point more more purely straightforwardly and simply blay. And maybe that would be the way to go and have the still have an elected position but it just have. It have a different where different label the other inherent conflict that John was talking about probation probation officers in both have to hold the person accountable if they violate conditions but at the same time they functioned as as an advocate and counselor to enhance inch rehabilitation. I've seen a lot of supervising officers troubled by that That's that's probably a topic for another show since we are running down. I'm sure for the last couple of minutes here. Robert Appel You know I don't know whether there is going to be any any year any serious turn here do you think there is. I hope so. I appreciate the work. That Paul's done and others and I know that. Paul hines continues to examine the issue I'm aware of a number of attorneys. who were speaking with women at the facility including me I appreciate your time uh-huh and I see I see diggers run stories I think it is a critical issue and I don't think it's going away. It's been a long time coming. We're we're finally shining a spotlight on and we should not kick the can down the road yet again. That's a little bit of mixed metaphor there but we'll we'll take because it definitely makes the point that we are in a in a at a time when you could actually Somebody could actually grab a hold of this situation and start to say. What is the change that is needed needed? It's it's becoming clearer that something needs to happen but we don't know exactly what yet. We are fast approaching the top of the hour here on the day of Graham Show and since it's the second hour of the program that means it's about over and we're going to be invited all the stay tuned with WBZ FM and am for common sense radio with Bill. Sarah I want to thank my guests. Asam Mary Powell was in earlier. CEO Remount in power for another couple of weeks Robert Appel and this last half hour here talking about these institutional problems in state government of of long standing and Robert. Thank you very much for coming. Thanks for having me and this is I think that a couple of worthwhile conversation this morning folks. I hope you you agree. Drop us a line here. The Graham show. WD In all of this find US online W. Dav radio DOT com. Follow the link today Graham Show and that's about it for us today have a great day everybody.

Vermont Green Mountain Power John Mary CEO Dave Graham Mary Powell Dave Ramsey Vermont. Green Mountain America GNP Lowell Central Vermont Public Service Robert Britt Appel Sam
Is it arrogant to say youre right? And many other questions

Cross Examined Official Podcast

49:18 min | 1 year ago

Is it arrogant to say youre right? And many other questions

"It does truth exists because you have faith. Does that make this book does god exist so when someone says there is no truth if you apply the claim to itself. What should you say is that true. They don't think christianity through their talked out of it. You know why because they've never been talked into cross examining skeptical and a._b._c.'s view welcome to cross examined with dr greg turek what makes love possible. That's one of the questions we're going to deal with today. In fact i've had so many guests on recent recent weeks including ravi zacharias and john lennox and michael heiser and others. I haven't been able to get too many your questions but we're going to try to get to some of your questions. You've emailed me at hello at cross examined dot o._r._g. Today here are some of the questions we're going to get to. I don't know if we'll get to all of them but this is what i've got lined up in the queue is love possible. If atheism is true unless you observe it directly a half to have faith to believe it why pray when all these these shootings keep happening doesn't appear like god's doing anything. How can we love america when it's when it's founders our founders america's founders were slave the owners and why do we say that the god of the bible is the ground of morality where we get that from is once saved always ways save true. What about those who fall away they make a profession as young people and you know by the time they hit twenty or twenty-five there atheists. What about them did we create god or did god create us and is it arrogant and pompous to say that you're right and everybody else who disagrees with you is wrong. Those are some of the questions i hope to get to today as i say we'll try and get to as many as we can and if you have a question you can send to hello at cross examined dot org. I got a nice kind of question. Slash <hes> series of comments from dan stevens who writes this frank we know morality is not possible without god building upon on that wouldn't love for any other reason be an inconsistent action for an atheist if we're all just moist robots could love even be love as we just be reacting not reasoning out of our choices in order to show love to others love what appear to fly in the face of atheism it is not not consistent with survival when we lay aside our needs and desires to attempt to meet those of another it may not be that important but i haven't haven't heard this pursuit by any apologists and i believe that it has some value as i'm sure that almost anyone we debate converse with with claim to love others but i do not not believe that they could logically justify doing so unless they were created by god well. There's a lot going on here. Stephen let me just mention a couple of things first of all if if we are moist robots as i've said so many times on this program as atheists in effect are admitting by their ideology of materialism if every we thought we have and every action we take is simply physics blind physics then not only is love not possible any moral choice is is impossible. Any argument isn't possible because we're not really following reason. We're not really really following morality. We're not really making gene choices either to be reasonable to be moral if everything is controlled by the laws of physics so the universal acid is really really is really atheist. Materialism it cuts to everything it. It destroys our ability to justify anything we think bank or anything we do so yes love would not exist if atheist materialism is true just like any choice wouldn't really exist. 'cause love is a choice to seek what's good in the person loved and of course that presupposes you have a choice it also presupposes what good is <music> and good wouldn't exist unless god existed not an objective way anyway so yes stephen. I think you're right about this. Love would not exist without god of course it wouldn't exist without some kind of plurality in the god head either why because if there was nothing created and god was purely monotheistic being then there'd be no one one to love and there would be no lover because there's nothing to love but in the trinity you have a lover a loved one in spirit of love so love existed prior prior to creation because god is a loving being himself within the trinity and the trinity of course we've talked about on this program before as a model for relationships nations ships if you will that in order to love somebody you have to be able to make a choice of course and you have to have a lover and a loved one and paul talks about the idea that i think gets into fijian's five or six that we ought to look at christ just as the head of our relationship particular relationship with our spouse and so this is <hes> this this can all be analogize from the trinity entity in any event digress there stephen goes on to say second thought the more i study apologize and reason though positions that people take and reason through positions nations that people take i consistently find myself going back to the origin of the universe. I find that every belief that a person has recipes on their world view of existence. Although most people are quite inconsistent stint yes true. He goes on to say as we converse our debate. Would i be writing and directing every conversion or conversation. I should say back that way in other other words to the cosmological argument well maybe in fact if you look acquaintances argument for god's arguments for god his five ways. Most of those arguments are variations nations on the cosmological argument that basically you're getting back to existence. Why does anything exist in fact leibnitz asked the question. If there is no god why does does anything exist or he said it this way. If there is no god if there is no god why is there something rather than nothing and and you in regular language you could say if there is no god. Why does anything exist. Why does anything exist. If there is no god ultimately you're back to two possibilities for the created world either mind gave rise to matter or matter gave rise to mind now. Matter itself had a beginning. We know that second thermodynamics shows us does that matter can exist. Eternally also matter is composed so there must be a composer to put it together if that is indeed the case and it seems to be matter is not ultimate mind is ultimate mind brought forth matter not the other way around so ultimate reality is a mind immaterial intellect elect. That's what we mean. When we say god now sometimes atheists will say well. There's no evidence for god now when they say that that. I don't want to come back and try and give them evidence. I want to ask them this question. First of all you could ask them. What do you mean by that. What do you mean by evidence. And what do you mean by. There's no evidence for god. How'd you come mm to that conclusion. You could go that route but i like to say this when they say there's no evidence for god i asked him. Why is there evidence for anything why they're evidence for anything. Why is there evidence. It's that two parts hydrogen in one part oxygen gives you water while you can do it over and over again and you can observe yeah. Why can you observe things. And why do you think that your your observations are telling you the truth about the world external to your skull the real world out there. You're making assumptions that this is a reasonable world and it consistent world that things operate right by certain cause and effect and that tomorrow if you put two part high hydrogen and one part oxygen together you'll get water again and it was the same way yesterday. You're assuming i mean this is a reasonable orderly world and that your mind is reasonable and it's put together in such a way that it can yield truth about the real world well. That's that's better explained by theism than by nothing. It's better explained by a mind than by nothing in fact our mind is made in the image of the great mind. So why is there evidence for anything because this is an orderly world and if there's if there's order in the world there must be an order and ultimate order a why does anything anything exists at all and b._y._u. Is it not just chaos if it did exist. It's not chaotic. The world has ordered to it as designed to it so there must be a designer diner. It seems that's the best or the inference to the best explanation he goes on to say and this is the question or stephen again to my correct. In asserting thirty. Every person has a faith position essentially that we're all religious if something is to be scientific doesn't have to be observable testable or duplicate or repeatable eatable you might say and let's say at this point no because forensic science can't observe necessarily and test something and repeat something eur j warner wallace and you're trying to find why this dead body has been discovered. Why is it dead. You can't go re resurrect the body go back in time and see what happened to it. You've got to use clues. You gotta use evidence. That's left behind to try and discover what happened now. That doesn't necessarily mean. It's a faith position. It means that we might be using certain principles to get at the past that we can't use by going into the laboratory and doing something repeatable over and covering over and over again. We'll get to it right after the break. You're listening to cross examine with frank turk on american family radio network. Our website is cross examined dot org. That's cross examined with a d. on the end of it dot org so check that out and get our app two words in the app store cross examined back in two minutes aw thank you for listening to cross examined podcast. This material is made available to you for free country. Who listeners like you if you wish to support support future podcast just go to craig's avid dot org and click on a donate button or simply used donate feature direct. Thanks you're listening to. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist on the american family radio network and the cross examined dot org podcast where you now have called it. I don't have enough. I don't have been a faith to be an atheist because more people understand the content than just cross examined so if you i haven't signed up for our app you need to do that two words in the app store cross examined and if you haven't signed up for this feed this tunesfeed go to. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. I do that and like that. Particular feed the other one. The one that just has a c. e. on it as of september i will no longer be updated. We're trying to migrate everybody to the one podcast because you can get this podcast in two places which really presents a problem because despite the fact that it a lot of people have seemed to be listening to this they're not all in one place which means it won't show up higher in the ratings which means fewer people will see it so if you don't mind moving over and subscribing to the i don't have enough faith to be an atheist version of this podcast it would be very helpful and thank you continually leave for putting up very positive reviews. I go up there and read them on occasion and i wanna thank you very much for doing that. Because it helps more people see this podcast as it's rated highly or when it's rated highly by a lot of people so so please do that for us. If you don't mind again it's called. I don't have enough faith to be atheist all right. Let's go back to stephen's question or dan. Dan stevens questions. Actually he was trying to say that. Does it have to be observable detestable a repeatable in order to be science no because there's forensic science out there so it's not a faith faith position when you say it looks like this particular body was murdered rather than say it was a it. The body died ride because of some sort of natural cause or it's. It's not repeatable to say if you're walking along the beach and you see john loves mary in the sand. It's not necessarily repeatable eatable to go back and witness john mary writing that in the sand but it is a good inference to the best explanation to say that whenever i see john loves mary or any message written in the sand. You know it has to be an intelligent being and that's what we do to get at the past. It's called the principle of uniformity that that causes in the past where like those in the present john loves. Mary requires an intelligent being right now. How then something like john loves mary in the past would also require an intelligent being in the past even though i wasn't there to witness it it's not completely a faith position to to say that when i say it had to have been a intelligent being john loves mary in the sand at some point to go. It's not entirely faith position because i have evidence right now that it requires an intelligent being to create something. John loves mary. Faith means without empirical proof oof empirical proof meaning. You're observing at the time okay but it's not a faith position to say that when we have evidence that the universe had a beginning that it requires a beginner it's not a faith position position to say that if john mary's in the sand and therefore it had to be an intelligent being we're using the principle of uniformity and the inference to the best explanation application to discover what caused a particular effect in the past rather than a direct repeatable observation. That's that's one very valuable kind kind of science remember. We've talked about it before their two kinds of science. There's empirical science you can repeat over and over again and then there's historical or you might say forensic science. You can't repeat it over and over again again. What you can use clues to discover what happened in the past and dan goes on to say that he's a chaplain for for nearly one hundred twenty five high school kids and he's been using our material as well as jim wallace's material william lane craig robby zachariah great coco and others and so oh he's very complimentary on the work that we're doing in these other apologists are doing so thank you so much dan for right and then hope that helps also want to write also i want to do with the question that lunar rights and lou writes in and says since these shootings have been happening more and more. How exactly does prayer help. I main people are dying in any way and sometimes i wonder if god will do anything at all. If we focus our prayers on situations like this well. Let me say this. <hes> these are tragic shootings as you know i mean any any time there's an innocent person who are who was killed inside or outside the womb. It's tragic and it's a good question. Can you ask luna but let me say this. We don't know if or how much god directly intervenes how many shootings or or evil events has he prevented through the persuasion of his holy spirit. There's no way of knowing because we don't have that kind of knowledge. If the the shootings have happened because of god intervening we would know they haven't happened right. Maybe god has through his persuasive. Holy spirit prevented a number of shootings not without taking over someone's free will he just somehow arranges events or his holy spirit goes to a person and prevents a shooting. He may be doing this repeatedly. We would know because the shootings haven't happened and since we only know what minuscule amount of what's going on and why and since every korea event and every decision ripples forward to affect billions of other events and decisions we are not in a position to say prayers are not working. We're not i mean we might also ask this question working. According to who standard or who or what outcome when we pray we pray trey god's will be done not necessarily our will be done. Are you saying it's god's will that that. People are shot. No no. I'm not saying it's god's will that. People are shot but it is god's will that he gives us free will so we can make moral choices. If god always prevented evil then we wouldn't really really be free and this wouldn't be a moral universe where love and redemption could exist because without free will we can't love and we can't be redeemed because there's nothing to be redeemed about if we're not if we're just robots. We don't need to be redeemed so this is a real moral universe and and for me anyway. The ripple effect is inside. I learned i think i was maybe reading something from william lane craig on this and it it really opened my mind signed to the you look at some of these tragic events and you go. How could any good come out this. There's no way we can see but that doesn't mean. God can't bring good out of it. I mean a tragic tragedy. Tragedy strikes whether somebody just dies naturally or somebody dies at the hands of evil we not might not be able to see any good coming out of it but through the ripple effect there could be great good coming out of it now and in the future maybe through the ripple effect an awful tragedy that occurs today ripples forward into the future. It brings forth a great evangelist who saves millions of people. You know five eight hundred years from now we we can't see that how many things occurred in the ancient past that are rippling forward today and helping to cause certain things we can't see bet all of us are products of the ripple effect think about if your parents never met you wouldn't be here. How did they meet well. There's a whole ton of things is that had to occur a whole number of events and decisions that had to happen for them to even meet and maybe they met as a result of the tragedy that happened in the past. We can't trace all that all we can do. Is we know that there's good out there in fact backlots question wise to evil very few people. Who is there good. Of course you wouldn't have evil unless you had good evil doesn't make any sense unless good exists because evil is a privation nation and good evilness like cancer if you take all the cancer out of a good body got a better body. Take all the body out of the cancer. You got nothing in other words. Evil doesn't exist on its own at only exist. Good exists exists so if you're going to say a shooting his evil and we all are then we have to assume good exists but good only exists. If god exists so we don't get rid of god by saying well he hasn't answered this prayer or he hasn't done things the way i wanted them to do where he hasn't stopped all evil in fact i remember way longtime ago is at michigan state and i had gone through a. I don't have enough faith being atheist presentation and i knew there was a militant atheist and the audience because he was he had a scowl gal on his face the whole two hour presentation and as soon as the q._n._a. started. I knew he was going to have to say something so there any questions. He shot his hand up. I said yes sir he said if there is a good god why doesn't he stop all the evil in the world. I said sir that is an excellent question. Maybe because if he did he he might start with you and me because we do evil every day you ever think about that. Whatever we complain about evil whenever complain about ourselves doing evil but we do evil every day where i was thinking about somebody. Stop stop her. If god wanted to stop all evil he could. He could just take away our free will he could. He could just kill us. All then evil would would go away but no this is a moral universe where you can make choices for good or for bad and in that sense love love can exist of course evil can exist as well god however can redeem it affect god promises to redeem it now. I gave him a much longer answer after that. I don't have time to get into it here but part of it had to do with the ripple effect and if you want to read more about that get the book stealing from god i will chapter on this stealing from from godoi atheist need god to make their case all right next question. How can we love america when its founders were slave owners. Well my friend dr michael brown who have had on this program. Several times before has a columnist week. It's called. I am not dreaming of a white america in lemay agree with what he says here he he says i believe it's an opportune time to denounce white nationalism. It is unamerican. It is unchristian deadly. America's greatness is not color based. It's not ethnically driven. America's greatness is derived from the vision of our founders of vision that was largely christian driven by biblical principles because of those principles the founders could right we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights among these are life liberty and happiness. These troops were not only self avenue to the extent that there was a benevolent unjust creator without him this entire sentence which forms the philosophical lynch pin of the declaration of independence. It's would disappear it is because of these biblically based principles that we were able to break free from the horrors of slavery and push back against the evils so segregation and it is based on these principles that we continue to fight against injustice oppression racism and whatever other evils remain present in our country but none of this has to do with skin color or ethnic origins instead it has to do with people coming together to live as americans not primarily europeans or asians living in america her africans living in america but simply as americans that means that white should not have a vision of a white america or blacks of black burke or hispanics of an hispanic america america. That's michael brown by the way in his it's over at stream dot org dot org why i am not dreaming of a white america. That's from michael brown. You can read the whole common of time to get into it here but let me agree with that and say this. The moral principles of our founding documents are sound and good good even if our behavior has always lived up to those sound and good moral principles. This is why when people say the country is evil because the founders had slaves. They're missing the point. All all countries and all people are evil. If you simply look at what their people do because we're all fallen and we all sin it's the ideals of our nation that are admirable and we should urge one another to live up to those ideals. What other nation has these ideals. Nobody protesting the flag. Therefore in my view is not the way to promote change the flag and the ideals it represents are not the problem. It's the behavior of certain people that don't live up to those ideals. That are the problem mm-hmm so if you wanna love america love the ideals america stands for but try and correct the bad behavior of all of oh boss. That's the way to make an improvement not to protest the flag all right. I'm frank turk back in just two minutes. Don't go away. Welcome back to cross examined with frank. Turk of the family. Radio network renamed this podcast. I radio program. I don't have enough faith to be easiest with frank. Turk website cross examined dot o._r._g. We were just before the break talking about america and and can we actually can we love america when its founders were slave owners but first of all most of the most of the founders knew slavery was wrong thomas jefferson the knew it was wrong even though he had slaves and i mean you can read about this if you want but all of us have behaved badly many times we behave badly every single day but that doesn't mean that the principles that we might believe leaving are bad same thing is true with the country what we put in our declaration of independence. Our constitution and many of our laws are good good moral principles yeah some way do have some bad laws. Now we are actually advocating evil in certain areas but generally going back to our founding. Our country is a country that stood for good and moral principles just and moral principles if you're going to say that the country's bad because they were bad people in it or we tolerate a certain amount of evil more than every country's evil every country's bad but our ideals deals are good. Our ideals are good practices true in in the bible. Let me look at jesus lineage. Look at the people in jesus bloodline. There are many evil people in jesus bloodline in fact. That's one of the ways i know. This is not a made up story. There's too many embarrassing details else. In the new and the old testament's i mean israel itself their their gold medal winners in sin right. I mean this is not an attractive picture. When you have the the people in the bloodline of the messiah actually exceeding exceeding what would be considered normal sin to olympic quality sin. I mean these people are murdering one another adultery and the king of israel committing adultery davis committing adultery and then killing the husband of bash sheba wanting commits adultery with i mean this is not a made up story. It's just telling the truth. That's why why we need a savior so i just find it. Odd people want to protest the country when in fact the country what it stands for is good even though we don't always live up to those standards so we have to continue to encourage one another to live up to those standards even if well let me put it another way we have to encourage one another live up to those standards but saying that the country is is founded on bad principles is fault. It's founded on principles. How can we love america. When it's people commit abortion in fact actually i would argue our founders were more moral than we were. Both slavery and abortion kevin are evil but an abortion. You're actually killing somebody now while our founders knew slavery was wrong. They practiced it anyway. We we know abortion is wrong. There's no no excuse anymore. I mean we know medically what's going on there there sonograms there's heartbeats but we we murder the unborn anyway and many of the people lecturing our country our so called pro abortion pro choice. They're lecturing our country that we're evil while they're advocating that we murderer unborn we should call out the people when they're not obeying the moral law when they're not obeying the principles of the country <hes> but some people have blood on their hands while they're doing that and they shouldn't be also wanna mention by the way that we're starting another version of. Y still don't have enough f._a. To be an atheist this september and if you want to take the entire course and take the premium version you're going to be live on the course with me <music> doering the zoom q._n._a. Sessions that's the advantage of the premium course. I think we're on together seven or eight times on zoom for an hour and a half q._n._a. Live q. and a. We'll see see one another. You can ask questions we can ask questions at one another to will learn from one another. That's the premium version of why still don't have enough faith to be atheist. Twelve week course starts in mid september. Go to cross examine dot org click on online courses if you want to be a part of that but sign up soon for the premium version because we only take so many students in there and once it's full it's full okay. You can take the basic version anytime you want it self paced but if you want to be part of the premium version and interact with me online via zoom video that take the the premium version of quickly sign up for it at cross examined dot or click on online courses also want to mention by the way this coming week <hes> the eleventh neck that's tomorrow throw saturday is tenth. That's today tomorrow the eleventh i'm going to be at abundant life christian church abundant life christian church in holbrook new york arc. That's out on long island all right eleven a._m. Service details are on our website next week. I'll be in l. j. georgia. That's about sixty miles else. North of atlanta thought it was closer but it's actually about sixty or so miles north of atlanta. Maybe a little bit further and it's not far from chattanooga tennessee either obey their saturday for the faith to be an atheist presentation. We'll have plenty of q._n._a.'s well from like ten to three. We have lunch right in the middle at noon and then the next day. I'll be at pleasant ah grove baptist church eljay georgia as well for their eleven a._m. Service all the details on our website cross examined dot org so check all that out out all right. Let me go to another question. This comes from j. p. j._p. Says i listen to your program. Whenever able to a here you often make assertions about christianity the atheism and morality. Hopefully they're not just assertions but there's arguments behind them. You say that morality comes from the god of the bible. Wondering what evidence do you have for that conclusion a good question. How did you conclude. The god of the bible is where morality comes from well. Let me put it this way. The the ground of morality is whoever is the wien who is all just all good all knowing all powerful etc now that being turns out to be the triune god of the bible. I'm not just asserting it. That's that's what the book. I don't have enough faith to be atheist. Goes through we started truth even believe in truth and we all we wind up that the fact that the bible is the word of god we go through twelve steps to do this or twelve points to do this so i don't have time to do it all here on the on the program but let me boil it down to four basic questions the four basic questions you need to investigate investigate to see if christianity is true are these dust truth exist does god exist are miracles possible and is the new testament telling us the truth about the resurrection direction because if the answer is yes to those four questions does truth exists god exists or miracles possible and is the new testament telling us the truth about the resurrection if the answer to those questions is aston market down christianity is true and the bible's true is a series of dominoes that falls after that okay time to go into it right now but but those are the four main questions that are further expounded upon or the argument is tighter through these twelve point point we have and i don't have enough faith to be an atheist but those are the four basic questions truth god miracles in the new testament now if you can show the truth exist that god exists that miracles are possible and jesus rose from the dead christianity's true because of jesus rose from the dead. Whatever jesus teaches because he's got. If he rose from the dead. He predicted and accomplish his own resurrection. Whatever jesus teaches his true jesus taught the entire old testaments word of god so if the new symmetry liable you get the old testament thrown in okay because jesus is our authority already here. Why do i believe in the authority of the old testament because jesus did. I just have a personal policy. If somebody rises from the dead i just believe whatever the guy says okay and he he promised the new testament his disciples or as apostles would write the new testament and the only writings we have from the apostles or people that knew the apostles are the twenty seven books in the new testament so that's why i think that the god of the bible is the ground of morality now. What does that mean it. It means that god's nature is good and his commands flow from his nature or you say well. Sometimes his commands chant what commands can change but the value behind the command can't change god doesn't change but his commands can change why because the situation changes just like our our parents might change commands with us but the value behind the command is the same so for example when you're a small child your parents gonna say stay out of the street. Why because your your parent aren't your parents love. You and they don't want you to get hurt. The command stay out of the street is an expression of love. When you hit eighteen your parents say get out on the street and get a job. The value is the same. The value is because they love you. They want you to be successful. They want you to get out and make a living. That's a good thing but the command is changed. So commands can change based on the situation but the value behind the command doesn't change love is the value behind hi both of those commands same thing is true with god god in the old testament had a certain situation going on and he had different commands in some respects not all the commands are different but but then he gets to the new testament. He says love one another as i have loved you. That's that's the one new command give you so. The point here is that someone has to be the ground of morality. If there is no god there is no ultimate right or wrong now. Is it possible that god exists but he's not the god of the bible bible yes yes that's possible but from looking at the evidence the god of the bible turns out to be the true god if he used to true god that he is the ground of morality now again. All the details are in the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist so if you wanna go further j._p. Can but check that out. If you will all right another question this comes from vinnie vinnie says frank my wife and i were discussing the concept of once saved always saved. Is it possible to lose your salvation. Imagine a teenager sincerely coming to god and accepting jesus as lord but later in his twenties becomes an atheist denies. God no longer believes or wishes to be christian when this guy dies does he go to heaven seems like a dilemma elemmann one hand no one can snatch him from his hand once you believe but can you willingly deny the gift. It seems god's nature to allow free choice or free will and choice voice. If you don't want to be with god he won't force you. I'd love to hear your perspective. He's reading the book and he's so far two hundred pages any likes the book okay now. Now chris obviously argue over this but there's a key phrase you have in here you say imagine teenagers sincerely coming to god and accepting the lord jesus visas but later becomes an atheist well the question is does he zero sincerely come to god well. That's a question if it's once saved always saved and he's an atheist now probably not. I guess he didn't come to faith fact how why do i say that. Once saved always say well. It seems to me this is what jesus teaches and john five twenty four. He says this this he says he who believes passed from death into life in other words. You get eternal life when you believe you don't get it. When you die you get it when you believe and if it's attornal by definition you can't lose it. How can you lose eternal life. It goes on forever right and it's not just an expression expression of endless time. It's actually equality jesus in his high priestly prayer prayer in john chapter seventeen says now this is eternal life that they may know you they meaning us the believers that would come that they may know you the father and jesus christ whom you've sent notice. She says this is eternal. Life is knowing god knowing the father through jesus christ eternal life. It's not a quantity it's quality and so it begs the question. When you say suppose he sincerely accepts god accepts christ maybe he hasn't i mean if once saved always saved is true he hasn't or he has accepted him and he's gonna come back later anyway. We'll finish this thought right. After the break baker listening to cross examine with frank turk and family radio network website cross examined dot org back in two minutes. If you find value into condo this podcast don't forget to follow us on facebook twitter and instagram where you can find more just i cross examined org worked frank terrific on the search also visit our website where we add videos articles and free resources. I i don't know if you notice ladies and gentlemen but we had a podcast last week. Radio program last week related to to joshua harris the former pastor and obviously christian who wrote the book. I kissed dating goodbye well. Apparently he kissed not only waiting goodbye. He kissed his wife goodbye their three children and kissed christianity goodbye well. Actually i hope he's still in his children's life and now he says look. I'm not a christian anymore and he's supporting l._g._b._t._q. Q plus behavior and we talked about this last week so i can't go into everything again. If you wanna listen to the podcast last week it's called leaving leaving christianity for sex in any event just this past week. He is on the christian post he went to a l._g._b._t._q. Hugh pride parade and put up a couple of pictures so he's gone from somebody who believed that it was this just proper to have sex within a marriage of a man and a woman to nat now actually promoting the sex sex outside of marriage and even homosexual sex outside of marriage and as we pointed out last time even if you leave the issues aside aside as to whether they're right or wrong he's changed his moral perspective like one hundred and eighty degrees here and my question is by. What standard are you now judging these certain moral behaviors as correct moral behaviors now. He hasn't commented much on this at all. That's so i i'm i'm not gonna comment any further. I'm just pointing out that if you're gonna say you were wrong as a christian before and now you're right with certain moral behaviors that you're now supporting that christian christian sexual morality does not support. You've now adopted a new standard. The question is where is that standard come from. Who is this standard. Are you going to say there's a god out there that says same sex behaviors right well. Who is this god. What evidence do you have forum otherwise. Everything's a matter of opinion so i just wanted to point that out and you need to pray for joshua harrison his family. I just wanted to point that out that he's now going to pride parades and say and now this is a good thing without implies. There's a standard outside of himself. What is that standard back to. One saved always saved. It's not just john five twenty four. I think romans eight seems to teach this once. You're called and you're justified. Then you're save same thing and if asians one so i would. I would say that if somebody appeared to be a believer at one point there's two possibilities it's not a believer now says not a believer now either a they weren't a believer truly they weren't sealed with the holy spirit as talks about it and if it's one or they were and they've just they haven't lost their justification now there they just lost their sanctification and at some point we're gonna come back or god may give them up and as paul talks about and i think it's in first corinthians five that god may take them out of this life right now so they don't go any further. They're still be saved but they'll be saved. As a man going through a fire gets through the a fire with just the clothes on his back no rewards at all so that's how i would answer that. There may be other arguments that people want to give that no. You're not always always saved once. You're saved. I actually think the arguments are better that for the reasons. I just gave them once. You're safe. You're always saved okay. If any hope that helps let we now go to a question from k. Drain who writes this hello frank. I've been witnessing to this older gentleman gentlemen for quite a long longtime today i asked him. Your question of christianity were true. Would you become a christian. He responded that no he would not because i was just going on the assumption. That christianity is true. I said no. I'm i'm not saying that. I'm just asking if it were true. Would you become a christian. He said no. He said that he would not believe that. Religions religions are true only that they are beliefs that people have because it gives them comfort or an answer to many questions in this confusing life. He says that it is very the arrogance and pompous of me to insist that my beliefs are the truth and everybody else is wrong. Who disagrees with me. I am at a loss as how to respond to this statement and as we like to debate back and forth. I know it's gonna come up again. I really appreciate it. If you give me a helpful answer for this i would also appreciate prayers for this man and he goes on okay. We got we should pray absolutely for this guy and i hope our listeners will as well but the key thing you need to know. I think i'm dealing with claims counterclaims to christianity the most important thing you need to know because i it's used over and over again is something that we call the roadrunner tactic tactic in the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and all it does. Is you apply the claim to itself so if somebody says there's no truth you're gonna say. Is that true. If somebody says all truth is relative you're going to say. Is that a relative truth. Somebody says that there are no absolutes you're going to say. Are you absolutely sure because that's an absolute loot right there in other words. It's a self defeating statement to say some of these things. I've just said it's also self defeating to say. I can't speak a word in english because i'm using english english to say it and it turns out that what this gentleman has uttered here. Katryn is a self defeating statement for example. He said he says that it is very arrogant again and pompous of me to insist that my belief so the truth and that everybody else is wrong disagrees with me all right if you turn the claim on itself then you want to ask him this question. Are you arrogant and pompous for insisting are the truth and everyone else is wrong disagrees with you because he's doing the same thing he's saying. He's right about religions and you're wrong. You're saying you're right about religions and he's wrong. He you think you're wrong for saying other. People are wrong in other words then. Why isn he wrong for saying. You're wrong. Call truth excludes. It's opposite timothy keller. Who you ought to follow on twitter has a recent tweet from few days. He says it is no more narrow to claim that one religion is right then declaim find your way to think about religions is right exactly what this guy's doing. He thinks he's right about religions well. How does he know he's right right and by the way truth is not pompous or arrogant pompous or arrogant are attributes of an attitude or let me put it another way. Someone can be pompous or arrogant but truth is not pompous arrogant. Pompous arrogant are adjectives or or descriptions of an attitude someone have might have and it might have nothing to do with whether they're they're right or wrong. I mean you can be pompous and arrogant and be wrong of course and you could be papas in arrogant and be right. You can be humble and kind and be wrong or you can be humble and kind and be right now obviously out of those four choices. What would what do you want to be. He wanted to be humble and kind didn't right but humble and kind are descriptions of an an attitude that the person has there are not descriptions or they're not adjectives of truth. Truth is truth people. May hey hold certain attitudes but truth doesn't it's true or not true regardless of what your attitude is about route it so yes sure people can be arrogant and pompous and be right. You don't wanna be wanna be right but you don't wanna be arrogant pompous. You want to be humble and kind now. If you have to choose you shouldn't have to choose. I was gonna say if you have to choose between being pompous and arrogant entr entr right. Would you rather have that or be humble and kind and wrong well. I'd rather have neither but truth is more important than anything because the truth earth will set you free. If you don't have the truth you're not going to be set. Free and jesus said the truth will set you free by the way what does that imply that implies that if you don't have the truth you're in bondage and you are you're in blonde bondage to your own sin and the own okay and your own consequences of that sent the consequences that will come if you don't have somebody else pay the price for you and that's what christianity is all about. It's all about redemption. Paradise lost in genesis is paradise regained in revelation. Everything in between is the story of redemption and if you don't have somebody to redeem you you're going to be lost. Even if you're kind in humble you're going to be lost. Even if your truth and arrogant you're gonna be lost. Even i should t._v. Pompous and arrogant. You're going to be lost. You have to have the truth and the truth will set you free so turn. The claim on itself katryn and and just ask him is he. Let me say one other thing too about this notice that in here he says it's a comfort that religions just about a comfort well. It might be just about a comfort but that doesn't mean it's false to say that religions are a certain religion is comfortable. It might be comfortable and true. They might be comfortable and faults again. Comfort is not a description of truth claim. It may be comforting comforting to the person but it may be true or false. It's independent of that. We might also say that. Atheism is comfortable or believing that any religion is true is comfortable. That's probably the most comfortable you can get there anyway. Yeah that's very comfortable. What is not true. Taking drugs may be comfortable but it will destroy you. Ultimately comfort is not necessarily a test for truth so atheism. It might be comfortable to people why because then they think well. There's not gonna be anybody to judge me. There's not going to be anybody that says. I have to live a certain way. I can live my own way and i'm convinced that many of the people that i talked to axiom convinced because they tell me when i asked them. If christianity were true would you become a christian and they say no. I know it's not the intellect in their way because if it were true and it was just an intellectual issue they would accept christianity would accept christ but they don't accept christ why they don't want to they don't want there to they. Don't want there to be god because they want to be god of their own lives. It's comfortable to say there's no god sometimes because then you get to be the boss you get to do what you wanna do. There's not going to be accountability you get to lie cheat and steal if you want to and nobody's ever going to hold you accountable certainly not in heaven and if they don't catch you here not here either so comfort isn't a test for right and wrong or true or false so i would make those points in a non pompous not arrogant way if you can just ask him questions katryn are you being pompous and arrogant and why do you think pompous and arrogant are are attributes of truth. They may be attributes of people who are professing truth but they're not the attributes of truth themselves so so i hope that helps gagarin and if you'd like to ask a question i'll try and get to it on the air. Just go to your email box type into low at cross examine dot org and and i'll try and get to it france great being with you. Don't forget this sunday. I'm going to be up in holbrook new york. At abundant life church you can see the details on our website and next week the the seventeenth and eighteenth of august. I'll be in l. a. j. georgia at a church. They're both saturday and sunday. Check the the website for details. We hope you got a lot of value added episode and you think our podcast needs to reach more people. Here's what you can do to help go to. I i two hundred type cross examined official podcast. Four words deserves more. Live is a five star rated. It'll take you less than five seconds. If you have a few more seconds because despair leaves a positive review the best reviews will feature on future episode. You can also listen on spotify stitcher in google play. God bless <music>.

frank turk america john Stephen America john mary dan stevens paul holbrook new york twitter ravi zacharias leibnitz a._b._c. long island dr greg turek israel michigan
Podcast (12/31/19)

Boomer & Gio

2:19:19 hr | 10 months ago

Podcast (12/31/19)

"All right here we go me bank studio the final day of Twenty Nineteen boomer age. Geo Show without G will be back on Thursday so I sit thin with boomer esiason until ten o'clock a lot to do today all revolving around the NFL. Of course we've got the news yesterday about Pat Shurmur. We heard John Mary yesterday. Stephen Stephen Tissue as well as Oh Adam gay spoke to we can talk some jets as well but it's going to be all football for the next four hours. Maybe some hockey too. You never know. Good morning good. Morning boomers greater and You know yesterday listening to John Mara talk about the giants and what he sees as the future of the giants. I thought he made a lot of sense for me. Now I'm not not a giant fan and I get tormented by giant fan friends. I get their tax. I get their anger. I get their frustration. Their embarrassment harassment. I I can't think of any more adjectives other than those three that. Describe the people in my life who loved the New York giants now. My Dad was huge giant. He loved love the giants. And that was back when they sucked back in the seventies and everything so you know it's interesting how I thought John Merrill laid it out yesterday and he said a lot of things that made a lot of sense to me but then again I've been in the building so I kinda understand what he's talking about as opposed to being like you know. I'm not in the ranger buildings. When the Rangers Rangers lose to the flyers? I get pissed I got angry. I get mad and I become basically you know. You can't even approach me for a good hour after the game because I see the game a certain way and it's through biased is. I'm very frustrated so I kind of look at the giants kind of thing. I kind of absorb all the giant fans in my life and I kind honestly. Okay guys let me see if I can figure this out and give you some sense of where they're going and the thing that John Mara talked about yesterday that nobody ever ever talks about. Everybody just thinks that a general manager and coach come in and they just sit in their seats and they accept everybody. That's underneath them. And the way that the a a particular team has done business well in this case. That's not the case. because when they hired Dave gettleman they told Dave gettleman. Not only. Do you have to a fixed a roster but you also have to fix the way that we do business underneath the football team and how we support the football team through through scouting through analytics through everything else. which the I guess? According to John Maher it sounds like the giants have gone through a major transformation in that regard over the last two years years and in the middle of all of that and and this is an issue and I even brought up. Yesterday is the health of one day gettleman and and combined with his age at does he have the energy to continue to do this and I'm sure obviously by what John Mara said. Yesterday that Dave Gettleman in his eyes does have the ability to do this and Dave gettleman get them in was a part of the giant family. That wants to super bowls so they wanna give him the time. The fix this whole thing. I feel now that in my heart that listening to John Mary yesterday that he did not want to fire Pat Shurmur now. This is just me speculating. I don't have any inside information. It's just meet listened to him talk and maybe it's the the fact that he hates firing people wanna fire people especially good people like Pat Shurmur and the rest of those coaches that put all the hard work and then when I read the reaction action from the players. And here's who ally manning is you let manning is the ultimate professional ally. Manning said how disappointed he was that at this. Coaching Staff got fired and this coaching staff was the coaching staff that was charged with moving on from him. That tells you all I need it tells me all. I need to know how good the coaching staff was. If Eli Manning is going to say stuff like that because he doesn't have to say that he can go out you know kicking and screaming if he really wanted to and he didn't do that and and then the other guy who I thought was amazing. This is why you have to love this guy and this is why giant fans should hope that this guy becomes what Dave get them and said he he w- he will become when he drafted him and Saquon Barkley and Saquon Barkley is an amazing amazing compliment to Pat Shurmur and his staff yesterday yesterday and I thought he stood above most in terms of his professionalism and how he handles himself and this is only two years in the NFL and this is after being injured most of this year and finally coming on at the end of the season when he got healthy. So your all I can tell you is that I understand now why John Marijuana to keep Dave gettleman. I totally totally get Jerry. I know giant fans are not happy about it. I think a majority of giant fans are unhappy about it but I think he is put in place to kind of fix the the problems that were there prior to him arriving. And I think he's right in the middle of that rebuild in so many different levels and he's GonNa have a big chance now because as you point out he's got all this money to spend and and he's GonNa have a big free agent year and more draft. You know high draft pick again. They'll pick fourth and he's been good with Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. It's been fine Slayton's been great. We've talked about him mm-hmm so we'll have that opportunity. I think I think you know the baker should should turn out and he'll be better next year too. I mean you would think and you just hope that would some of the pieces that he decided added to keep some of the some of the pieces that Jetson. Let's face it. Everybody doesn't think about those things. But I would say bringing in Zeitler getting ridden Olivier Vernon that that is like like A. That's a that's a win. That's a major win for the New York. Giants getting rid of SAQUON NOT SAQUON Barkley. Odell Beckham Junior was a win for the giants. Those sometimes did you win by subtraction and in those cases I believe that has been the case for the giants but they got to get through all of this. You know they they have to get on the other side side of the rebuild and rebuild essentially for me anyway. It started a year too late because they got the quarterback in year two of them in year one but I understand how dave was so so smitten with saquon Barkley plus. They wanted to give ally one final year to restock around him offensively and it didn't work okay. So since it doesn't work now they have to start over. That's exactly what this year was next year. I just hope I hope whoever it is that they bring in here whether it be Mike McCarthy Matt Role Jason Garrett if he does come Humphry from the Dallas Guy Somebody that is not going to lose sight of how important this this league is when it comes to Daniel Joe and everything you say is spot spot on. I have no issue with that anything you say what John Mara did say history in terms of why Pat Shurmur was. Let go after all the Nice things he said about him and all true probably. They didn't win enough to tell me about a rebuild. All you want and that's that's fair but again it's it's like repeating ourselves from yesterday you lose nine straight games and entire franchise record. Something's gotTa give and I do believe and I am on an island with as I do believe if they beat the Eagles yesterday he still head coach. I really do which sounds ridiculous. Because you're talking about thirty two games. You might decision based on one but I think had. They won that game over the Eagles yesterday Sunday and had every chance to do it by the way I still don't head. Coach fumbled snap until a fumble fumble snapping and things got outta whack completely out of whack but if you listen to John Mara and you know part of what he said about gettleman gentleman explains why he stays and he talked about him getting sick. And you WanNa give them another opportunity because he lost half the year battling cancer. It's right in the middle of the refill. Sure thing but if you're looking at the head coach you've got an angry. Let's be honest and very angry. Fan Base losing losing they four and twelve. Here we go again in another coach you again but stocked better with talent and younger and now with some experience you know there are there. Are Things in games. You can point to that. Might tell you maybe Pat Shurmur not long for this as a head coach. Maybe he suited to be a coordinator because they lost games in puzzling fashion games. That were winnable. Whatever roster said pointed out the games nine in a row is it asking too much one eight now I understand that now? You're you're driving home yesterday and I am. Not What does not disagreeing with you. What I am saying however is that everybody wants to compare themselves like the steelers? The steelers win steelers have a culture. The steelers don't fire their coaches and they don't and they may have a bad year here there and by the way there are only four teams in the NFL that have had winning records over the last four consecutive years. Okay and obviously the Patriots are one of those teams. I'll find I think the Tennessee titans are one of those. Ah But they've been four years in a row they've been nine and seven right. You know so it's not like it's easy to win the NFL especially when you're going through a transition especially especially when you're asking a cow. Maria Sam Darnold. Abakar may feel a Josh Rosen. Even more Jackson got started on a a playoff bound on team late in the season and he took over because Joe FLACCO got hurt so a little bit different story there but you see what they did with Lamar Jackson this year. They turned the offense over to him. They made it about him and look where they are so now to me. The giants got to do the same thing for Daniel Jones. Just like the jets have tried to do the same thing for for Sam Darnold. That's why they brought in an offense coats so I would think you know Matt role is from here you know He. He had been a year with the giants coach Temple. He's down a Baylor. He's been very very successful at all those levels. I get all that stuff. I think he gets the whole New York. I am thing I can understand why he would be some of the local media favorites. That's that's that's certainly on his resume that would make me feel that way to Mike. McCarthy's a guy that obviously that you have to take seriously because of his success in Green Bay and the thing about Mike McCarthy you know he's a button guy you know he'll come in he'll do it the giant way and the interesting thing about him and I fill saying this yesterday off the I don't know if he said it on on the air but the thing about Mike McCarthy is he will run a practice where everybody is wearing the right clothing on the practice field. There's no individuals out during the practice though there's still that old western Pa way of doing things when it comes to football. which if you're a hockey guy there's A? There's a Canadian way of doing things. When you play hockey you like to have that little bit of culture that is in your locker room and all that kind of stuff? So let's think Mike McCarthy is so I would think that they'll obviously reach out to him and talk to him. A whole Josh mcdaniels things I think is a pipedream because and I don't WanNa make a big deal out of this but there are certain guys who are not GonNa WanNa come here and work with Dave Gettleman Miss. Just that's just the way it is because they see themselves as bigger than him or no more than him or want to bring somebody with them on the personnel side. That can now create the Patriot. Way Wherever Josh mcdaniels goes that's the thing and what is the Patriot way while it's not just on the practice field and in the football all field. It's it's the building of underneath the roster just like what is trying to do with the giants. John Mara was talking about yesterday. So that is I. Think a pipe dream. I think it would be more of a McCarthy or a Matt rule type of thing unless somebody else shakes loose that we can't think of or we're not thinking of right now but I would say that those two guys are probably the leaders in clubhouse and Eric Vietnamese name is popping up to you mentioned him yesterday as well. It's interesting show. Eric was a team mate of mine. I don't know if you knew that the jets now now the bengals my last year so he was using the backfield with me. cajanek Carter and Corden and Eric was like our third third down back. He was a special teams Maven and he would call out the past protections when he was on the phone with me before I would so he knows what's going on. He's Andy's right right hand man now out in Kansas City. Andy is obviously endorsing him. I talked to him about four weeks ago when I went up to go it of you Patrick Mahomes for the NFL today. And and I asked him about his. You know his experiences last year doing some interviews. He goes yeah. You know what I need to go in there and tell them what I want. Not what I think they WANNA here and I think that's what owners are looking for. They're looking for men that can stand up in front of fifty three guys and build leader have credibility and and Create a clear message and when things get Harry on the sidelines. You know panicked not gonNA ensue. Need A man's command. The room is what you need one hundred percent and and they're hard to find these days because of the group of men that you're actually are leading. It's a different group. It's different than we played back when we play. The coaches has had a little bit more control over us with the money that is being made today the guaranteed dollars the individuality of the player in today's world a little bit different to handle. It's a lot different. Social Media Aspect of fan has a big voice whether it's right or wrong. It's a fact that it's on their teams here. Teams teams read it. And you know the the mob mentality works a lot of cases and I think that's part of this too. I mean the you know the slings and arrows. Throwing a Pat Shurmur the last month month. Damn we're seeing well the giants ownership and happened to see what's happening Dave gettleman now too. You know. Now it's him but that will die down and once the draft. The Free Agency begins but shortly from the giant fan. Because you can't have another five win season. Are there for one season. It'd be better next year cycle. You're going to have three well. You have to now. Most likely the cowboys are going to join the redskins and the giants three teams changing coaches in the NFC. That's amazing and that's that is similar relate to that after they met the It wasn't like Oh yesterday and I guess he will. He's under contract for another week or so or two weeks. But I thought it was we I listen to him on his radio spots. It's a strain. Yeah I know and I know Stephen and Jerry Jones both canceled their radio spots right. So that that's a whole nother aspect down there. I look I think Jerry Jones sounds really and I read all these things about Jerry and his relationship with Jason. They've been together for over twenty years. And and Jerry has a very very high regard for Jason as a person when you listen to those players. Talk about Jason Garrett. It's the same way that the giant players talking about Pat Shurmur. So it's not like like I thought the giant players turned on Ben Ben mcadoo and the people in that building felt it and saw it and how to do something about it that that was not the case. I think this firing of Shurmur is more of a tissue side of the giants ledger. This is definitely were Steve Tisch. Now I said I'm going to get more involved to me this this. This is what this reeks of which is an interesting dynamic. Now because that's not been the case really coming Out and saying I want more involvement is interesting for John Mara now going forward how they divvy up the responsibility and what does that mean. Well is more say I e Aseel Aseel. He's going to Walmart. Say He's going to want to have more input and I think you know you probably has people in his life lamenting the fact that the giants now are. I'm I'm just putting words out there that I would think that somebody may say him. Your team's embarrassment. We've heard it. This is a disgrace the giants you know Blah Blah. Meanwhile I mean you keep changing and changing and changing as the Knicks have proven. You'll never amount to anything so now hopefully again I say this every time I'm so sick and tired teams firing coaches around here and general managers. We give a guy two years and then next thing you know you've got to run them out of here. Well you know what would have needed to have done to avoid this if you will will kinda will Christopher Johnson. Did you know as their again to in to football team and talking with a lot of confidence after I think it was. Washington was the second one when they won back to back games with Daniel Jones and they felt real good about things while they lost a couple of games they're against good teams and then had the slide. They would have needed to Okinawa. And listen listen. He's our coach through twenty twenty. They didn't do that. And then things spiraled out of control Christopher Johnson Johnson we own the jets jets. Nobody's telling the Johnson family. What do you have co ownership of the giants and one size which has been quiet for for ever? Since they became partners. I guess on the football side of things now all of a sudden WANNA get involved and but that wasn't the case in October. We didn't hear them. Maybe it was. We didn't hear it. Someone could've said something in October when the slide was in progress. Yeah I think it all started when Steve Tisch won the award at the march of dimes. Luncheon that's one of the three weeks ago yes when it all Kinda started bubbling and all that other stuff so now that so now. That's in the mix now for giant fans. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing you know we'll have to wait. You can see all I know is that you have another guy. That's probably being influenced by people in his life. That are say he got to do something to you. Got To do something it's like. I I feel like Jim Dolan's life I feel like everybody's Jim Dolan's life is telling him you gotTa do this for the next. You GotTa do that for the next. And then he changes and moves course and fires. This guy brings in another guy and the next thing you know. The team sucks again. Let me ask you this though. Do you not believe that. Part of the problem Pat Shurmur had was past record past his track record as a head coach. Of course this is nine hundred ninety three and they also said September. Twenty three is going to be now known as Pat Shurmur Day because he was nine and twenty three in Cleveland and nine and twenty three in New York I know. Oh yes jerry. I know it's hard to action business but I could also make argument on the other side that when they hired Pat Shurmur you know they were coming out of the ugliness of the Eli. Manning gave Ben mcadoo thing and they wanted to give you live for some reason for some reason they wanted to give you lie another year. Okay which I thought. Okay you get it. That's why they spent all the money on the offensive line. That's why they drafted Saquon Barkley. That's why they kept Odell Beckham Junior gave him a new contract. You know they wanted to load up. Forgive Eli as much of an opportunity to be successful as he possibly could with veteran players and play makers and you can't sit here and tell me two years ago when Pat Shurmur. I got here that that wasn't the case so he had inherited the job though he knew what he was getting himself into. I know I know these. All these coaches take the jobs knowing that eventually they're going to get fired eventually unless you're jeff unless you're Marvin Lewis bill ballot check. Mike Tomlin. You're not getting fired on toward finally goes fifteen sixteen seventeen years whatever in the case of valujet twenty years but I even he was fired prior to the success that he had up in New England but I. I don't know this this is A. It's a tough day because you don't like good people getting fired and I and I saw that on the face of John Mary yesterday understood understood. We got a lot to do including the Jetson Adam gays as which was a weird day in jetlag as they wrapped up their twenty nineteen. It's a weird day in Shetland. That's a fair question and I don't have the answer to that all right six twenty six the Fan and CBS. Sports Network G OUT UNTIL Thursday. So he said it was boomer until ten and sitting in for myself is one handsome Frisco precedent. Good morning guys how are you all right. We're doing great how you doing. I'm doing great well. I mean you saw US already this morning. Yeah but we're on the air now. It's the first time acknowledging each other on the show all right so I see that well good morning. Good morning good stuff so why bother apply all right. Thanks Chris exactly all right. So Dave Galvin survives. Obviously Pat Shurmur. Did Not a collaborative decision or agreement. At at least that's what they say publicly made by John and Steve Tisch announced on black Monday followed by the Mara press conference to explain. That decision could have done it earlier. I wanted to give them a chance. I held out. Hope quite frankly For quite some time hoping things would turn around. Obviously they did not the nine game losing streak mixed in in a foreign twelve record nine and twenty-three across the last two seasons as far as gettleman goes there happen to believe in Dave and I happen to believe in the changes that he's making here and I I think those are going to pay off. The pressure is on to improve. Things quickly goes no. The the batting average has got to increase going forward though both in the drafts and then free agency agency. I think both but specifically free agency because the line of questioning was about some of this is that they've had in Green Bay in free agency and their own impressed and Smith Smith and Smith and both of those guys had you know pro bowl type years for them and some would say this is Daria. Smith can even make the the the all pro roster and they're are usually not a big free agency team that and that's one of the reasons why they turn their season around and of course they have a hall of fame quarterback Tannehill error-free football this. We're speaking of which as far as draft in free agency goes Maris's. They've taken a hard look at their processes their turnover nor scouting area. We've completely changed our grading system in how great college player now if you recall get them in and basically mocked analytics like a year and a half ago with the fake typing on the keyboard and they were talking about running Baxendall so Sarah Whitson thoughts on that area deeper into analytics and technology than we've ever been before and that process is ongoing. See what gettleman thinks about that. When he this morning with the media and everybody else I mean you know? He's an throwback guy right right which is why it'll these. Yeah how do you think he comes off today. Do really giving you think he is. He's been very what's that combative you think. He's going to be combative smug sarcastic. Why is it going to change? snippy why is he going to change because they just went four and twelve and his coach just got five. Let me ask you a question man did did. Did they draft a quarterback in a running back that look like they're going to be like really really good players for a long time. Yes okay. Four and twelve. Hurry up those guys and a couple of years move money money around and did they have dead cap money as patrimony said after Sunday's game they thought they were a playoff team this year. They went they all think that Gio and I sat here. I said they'd be lucky to win. Five Games and they didn't they. Well we we knew what they were GONNA be snow. They are who they thought they. There you go nice job I disagree the late. Great Danny Green do you want to expound upon your disagreement oh I'm with you So there has been the NFC stunk. Yeah good point some still these still would have been in the mix of six games. I'm not saying nine ten really the cowboys with all that very much money spent and they only win eight games at that show like a dysfunctional French but if the giants siblings walking off the field in the super bowl the lead winning sucks planning answer both pretty cool yeah. I've watched most of them but they won six games and then in the mix. Isn't that kind of field. He's not fired. Yeah right put isn't false. Hope though no no because they're a young team with a young quarterback a young running back building when you lose games the way they lost again. I'm doing this everyday. Trent dilfer one said but the only game the great tragedy. They say one of my favorites of all time can't lose games in the NFL and still win. That's deep he's right. I got to think about that. Okay goes by about yesterday you did I. I think they had a pass this year because they made the move to Daniel Jones and the answer is no I think it speaks so the whole tanking narrative right can't games in the NFL to win. This was years ago. He said this meaning like you lose and you get the great draft pick in right in China. Okay okay moving on So you had some speculation about the mirror. Steve tisch dynamic especially pertaining to Shurmur fate. So marriage been more front and center for years now. That was the the case again yesterday. Has He handled the at the podium part of the press conference petition. He wasn't a tendency did speak to reporters and said that he'll be wrapping up his presence movement phone. We'll be here more physically but the opportunities John is spend with With each other in the same building or the same stadium with the same locker room they will increase. If it's now it's almost like he's back to you know. Keep an eye on things. You can't be trusted to do by yourself things. That's what it sounds like I. I didn't realize he has a football. I agree but added football background. Yeah well he's been spent a lot of time out on the West Coast oversea-chinese movie stuff. Yeah very well there. He's like walking away. The team's terrible five to six seasons with double digit losses. I'm going to have to come back and roll my sleeves up more involved here so you know I need to get in the movie business and see what's going on over there. Well maybe he starts struggling in the movie business. John merica could say that right right I guess I you know the thing is is that We all knew that there was major problems here two years ago but nobody has patients patients anymore. No again and I you and I are ranger fans right big time. What are we going through? And what have we gone for the last eight rebuild and I will say to Jerry's point at least our team is competitive and it's fun to watch very now it's frustrating. It's supposed to also also exciting. You don't just snap your finger and all of a sudden return to being a cup containing it. Takes time the ball and same thing. I could say about being a super bowl contender superbowl winner in the case of the John's because they have one super bowl you can flip much quicker though in the NFL as we see on A. You're out freeze absolutely well. I think if you get the right quarterback anything can happen. That's that's the one thing. And the giants have that they have that in spades now and they get the running back and they got some pretty good wide receivers. I Dunno ingram of turn into a player because he's oft injured hit ever could become a player and be the athlete that he is. You know maybe he can have an impact but I dunno whoever the next coach is inheriting a much better situation. I believe now than what Pat Shurmur inherited when he got here. IVC ABC anybody. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. The open locker room yesterday. Very likely I'm manning's funnel media availabilities giant and he finally said it out loud. This year really really sucked and no interest in returning. As Dan Jones is under study. I doubt it I doubt it. So you know a back. Up's not not real fun. And even though he feels he can still play retirement. Definitely on the things that option so I think I mean that's the that's the first ones to whether whether to WanNa continue to deploy or not and then go from there. He's he's asked him career man hundred sixty six touchdowns two hundred and forty four interceptions. He threw for over fifty seven thousand yards and his record is one hundred seventeen. Nineteen in one hundred seventy five eight and four in the postseason had those two unbelievable runs and played one of the greatest single games that they could quarterback has ever played and that was that championship game out in San Francisco. No question he got hit. Fifty Times competing took a beating. Couple breaks go the giants way. But that's where he lie to me cemented. His legacy is the giant quarterback. Was that particular game. I know the Super Bowl Games against the Patriots were huge. Mammoth that game. He just got absolutely waylaid and kept getting up kept getting up and let us team to victory is durability has been incredible and that's an even Payton said that now Payton said that's the thing I admire most says that he showed up for every game that he was supposed to. He will be thirty nine years old on Friday by the way giants already connected to know Jerry helping with this. I always forget. Is it Chris. Richard over chartres art thought so short interview. And then you've got eric. PM E they requested an interview with Chiefs Offensive Coordinator and obviously Matt Rule is now the hot name to the point where yesterday there was a report from the athletic which said the giants are rules. Dream job and that he'll have no problem working with cattleman whether or not that's true but other thing too who is that. There was an interesting report by Ian Rapoport of the NFL yesterday and after even credit for coming up with this one because it really made me think about this combination and that how does Don Wink Martindale the defense coordinator for the Ravens as the head coach and the offense coordinator would be Joe. Brady Joe Brady. Is the passing game coordinator ordinary for Lsu who was with the saints before he came to Lsu this year enjoy. Borough had this amazing season with this play. Caller down there in L.. She would be interesting watching those guys go against Clinton in the National Championship game but about Don Martindale and Joe Brady potential combination. There you go going Solo power duo some of these college things were starting to hear them. We'll see if anyone makes judge in that in Dallas I suppose doesn't excite me that would excite you would excite you Mike McCarthy I would I love Mike McCarthy then for we and we have not seen his name connected to the cowboys yeah. I'm not saying I don't even think you will be a little too much little too much of a resume for Jerry Garoppolo. Oh I'd love to hear the name Jim Harbaugh but I don't think that's I don't think he's Jerry brought in bill ourselves. Yes did a while ago. Yeah but he's but he did it and it worse got him on that private jet and he never left without remember. Remember that I do remember that I was on the NFL today. Yes you guys said. There's a report that Bill parcells is on Jerry Jones jet EH. Ames if he gets on that jet is on the jet he will be the next cowboys head coach. Exactly your report that was that was my whole Beningo immediately. Yes this can't be true and it was. It was now turn to the jets where the Adam Gay Spanish each Meta staredown continues. So we'll cover it from a couple of angles here. Because he kind of this. I mean is this really. Is this really. Like surreal the thing. Need to talk about the thing. It is such garbage thing. It's been a ping pong match for team right. I'm tying in with the LABIANCA actually knew what it meant to actually go out on the field in practice and be a leader as opposed to miss. Ota's it'd be late for meetings and things of that nature nature. Then maybe he would understand. Why Levian Bell may not be here next year but he doesn't understand that he just wants to charge up the jet fan for some? I don't know selfish reason I guess and create all these firestorms that don't even exist anyway. Go ahead I'm okay. Well here was the exchange on lady on bell that a lot of attention yesterday. He's under contract for three more years. You still tomorrow you can ask this show tomorrow. I'm not personal church personnel. So that again made it seem like not just say. Of course. He's under contract. Why wouldn't I WANNA back? Why why do that? Because they're you know you see his tweet as opposed the GEL gift. Yeah Yeah like why do that because there are things that happened internally that we don't know about yeah astle and shouldn't and pressure between coach and play airplane pressure. Then why do that I even if you're having a big battle at Sam Weiss back in the day and which we did okay and then you turn that if he was asked about. Would you like boomer size and back as is your quarterback next year. And he's like I don't talk to the law. He said that he did it. Because during the nineteen eighteen eighty seven strike. I was the player rip and Sam and I are like Oh okay. I mean publicly on the news in the newspapers on the sports talk radio show their seven hundred. W W the big one we were going at it for literally four weeks in. Here's the guy gave me his. No huddle offense said you're my guy and then for four weeks we were going at each other. It was amazing different. Though that's different. I mean with gays. You got the whole history of. Didn't I really want build a report. He didn't want them. Now you got them. The season wasn't great. Do you WANNA back. I'll talk to this guy. Yeah it did not make. It seem that just added fuel to the fire that whole narrative. I think back to that that nineteen eighty-seven strike man. Thank God social. Media wasn't around man. Thank God I mean it was insane so the stuff with bell again makes it seem like aces and the biggest fan. But then at the same time he was also later in the press conference complimentary three of bell and he has been throughout portions of the season and even spoke about the plan for him. Moving phone both were kind of like we'll be able to take a break and then when we come back we can. We can really the hone in on some of those things that maybe we miss. And apparently they met yesterday and they're going to take a look at Pittsburgh film and figure out what work with the steelers. So that's where it reverts back to. Is this really against bell thing or was it just because I happen to be the one asking that question ha brought out sleepiness from case so writes. It's the crap that he writes because he's basically being shut out over there. Bob Gates firing back passive aggressive way. Yeah but yeah but I think that the the jets have said enough enough already. We've had enough leaks around here for way too many years and would just and we know that this guy is doing everything you possibly can to undermine mind would ever. We're trying to do in the locker room. And we're going to shut him out and he's been shut out. And this is why he writes this fabricated BS and has this. I uh I believe a twitter account. He probably posed as Adam. Gay says we have this. Yeah this whole burner account situation which even some of the other members of the jet beater now all kind of poking fun at right so in that piece that many shed written whatever it was a week and a half ago about gays with the re doesn't care about the fans right you've referenced in that it re reference the fact that gas may or may not have burner account on twitter or someone in his family. Who's WHO's out kind of defending him sticking up for him when there's criticism or maybe there's a fan? Actually that actually does like or that right. And then yesterday in the press conference there was an exchange where my knees ask as do you have a twitter account. He said no do you. which obviously many stills and then at some point yesterday from this alleged burner account which goes goes by the name Wyatt which also happens to be the name of one of his sons says a burner academy outcomes a link to the latest Menendez story which was posed and presented the same way? It was on twitter. Account that was quickly deleted said Ed alleged burner account has since been deactivated. So so the the facts of what happened and we'll make an and I thought I'm presenting you. Fax Giving US facts. But you're taking us for the other writers that have covered the jets believe that burner account is not Adam Gates bird burner account but it's Benishi Mehta's burner account made to look like it's out of gas burner. I won't speak for the JOE this afternoon. Tell him wow. That's a whole nother situation. I'm just saying there has been some some fun poked at Amini who yesterday tweeted someday. This'll this will make great chapter in the book. He's always he's been around the jets forever. Hashtag Wyatt Self. I believe it's true. So so what do you think I mean you're around the jets. Come on what do you think. I think that there is a strong healthy rivalry that goes on with some of those that have covered the aww. That's not what I asked. What do you think I'm not an opinion? Exactly talk to Joe Duh. uh-huh yes sir. Mr Jet to ask those long questions. Remember this morning I was watching. I think Bruce Arians press conference. Someone's asking them just went on and on and on. Wow this must be what I sounded exactly was alright. So who's burner account is it is it Manila's burner account account to make it look like Adams burner account or is it Adams burner account to go. After many she opinion. I'll say this. Here's what I'm GonNa say to requisite because what I will say I do not believe for any second that Adam gazes involved in some sort of burner account to stick up for himself on twitter so then you believe that it is Manila's I believe that somebody somebody somebody it's not engaged Now I don't know but I don't think anyone connected to gain I'm GonNa say yes even though I can't believe it to be the case it's just it's too cold wild story it's to quits. Dental ended the same way as many Shas burner. Yeah all right so I find it hard to believe he would do that given from last week and then this the suck up job up to today I would say yeah I agree with you Jerry. I'm with you wild. Wild possible quickly outdoor you got the Browns and the Panthers Authors Obviously in the head coaching search. The redskins are expected to higher ground. Rivera's the leading men knew the browns. Did they defend kitchens. All get the hell out From yesterday Jarvis Landry. Why I'm just kidding? Jarvis Landry did not take any shots at Freddie Kitchens. He was like yeah. I think he came in he worked hard. He tried to put us in his is best situation but they asked him. What do you think you guys need? And a head coach moving forward and he hawked on leadership so I don't know if that's a direct shot kitchens John Mara harked onto right right but I think it's like hey we need someone to come in strong personality to you know to clean up this mess here is as you remember the name. Paul Depot Desta Art. So He's the analytics critic Scott Right out there in Cleveland for the browns and supposedly. He's going to have more input as to who they hire now. The interesting thing here is you know they. Dave love to have Josh mcdaniels with all that stuff and again. I don't see Josh mcdaniels going to work for John I'm Dorsey speculations. If he comes in Dorsey Nick Caserio come with McDowell. Nicotera could be somebody else. He's going to go somewhere somewhere right there because he was trying to Huston right and cats with With Bill Brian and and ballot check blocked. It yes so this is this is what goes on in the NFL right now everybody's scrambling to get to the guy that they want and hopefully you know what you really honestly hope for. Is You hope to sit down in the guy across the the way from you becomes like Mike Tomlin. Everybody wants that of course or guy that just absolutely have pekair but Mike Tomlin. It was the guy that you know. The the Rooney rule brought Mike Tomlin to the Pittsburgh steelers. Oddly enough the rule named after Mr Rooney out there in Pittsburgh but Mike Tomlin just blew them away his whole personality and they said that's the guy that we want protein blows us away every Tuesday he does. He's crazy but I think you have to be. Would it be crazy to be a coach in the NBA with that guy after the process once an answering the question and learning what they I don't know I e Serbia's a very interesting character. He got into it on the sideline with Kelsey and I asked him about that. Because I mean Kelsey good man like that. You're the head coach you get into do it. Like with the jalen Ramsey on the sideline. It's going to be all over the place. What else were mets lost? The Timber Wolves in overtime. Four out of five can not what happened with the Knicks. Apparently the warriors keeping your eyes. Good job six. Forty everyone because their practice facilities up in Westchester which is a crappy place into live and work because we spend most of your time. At least. That's what the report in the paper is today. Why crappy place toward drove deandre Jordan said ARETHA? Kevin Durant didn't come to the next to the practice facilities up there Greenberg which I think is beautiful. It is it not right around the corner but it is very nice yes a beautiful place other places. Great not around. Down here in Tribeca and Soho in the West village and they just get on the west side highway and go right up there. I don't know I think the basketball tend to spend a a lot more time with the practice facility. Then the the hockey players do but I know that supposedly was the one of the big things as to why Kevin Durant one with the nets because they're practically brand new. It's enormous state of the art the Knicks and the Rangers have a nice facility. But it's not brand you love that facility it's very nice awesome six forty in on the fan and CBS sports network. Thanks Chris we'll get to your calls coming up next second hour of the show. He taking kind of caught boomer and Geo CEO. On a Tuesday morning. Greco back on Thursday after a well-deserved vacations holidays calls in just a second eight seven seven three three seven sixty sixty six sixty six on the jets before we continue on with the cost to see the quotes from Quincy and non walk so I guess it's spinal stenosis yes And also I I don't know why signing about being fined again for missing is he wasn't but that's part of where I'm going I find it amazing that that he says he has not spoken to Adam Gheysens November. They don't usually the guys aren't around and when they are getting treatment they come in. They get their treatment. They legal home. That's pretty much the way it is. The coach is trying to coach a team. Now I was trying to explain on on Sunday and the NFL. Today I thought Mike Variable made one of the gutsy are moves of the year and save their season benching. The number two overall draft. Pick Marcus Mariota and going with a retread Ryan Taniela Ryan. Tannehill is paid off. I mean in a big way. So many of the numbers are off the charts and one of the best quarterbacks of the second half of the season and he's led his team to the playoffs. The point I was is making us. The coaches make a million decisions on the air. They're dealing with so many things you know. I I know intimately how difficult it can be goes. Frank Reich is home he goes I. I never knew knew the amount of the things that come across my desk from from everything from what you want the carpet locker on the look like what you want on the video boards awards. What kind of music you want played? What kind of offense running? This guy has a problem with this marriage at home. This one you know you know had somebody diners family and we. This one has the flu. This can't play for two weeks with a high ankle. Sprain I mean it goes on and on and on and on and it never stops and I don't think people realize just how involved the head coaches that's why sometimes they don't see each other especially if the guy is on long season ending I are. You may see him around every now and again but most guys you know basically the go back to where they came from or they're only they're when they're required to be there to get their treatment. Nash probably usually when the players either in meetings or out on the practice. I I don't know I guess I guess from my stamp I would think that the player more so than the coach would go out of his his way to go say hey at some point in the span of eight nine weeks just to walk into his office and be like hey coach doing bright. I just seems odd to me like walking around here. I'm not seeing journal for nine weeks. And it's a bigger facility. I get it. But you'd think he'd make a point just to say hello once in a while but I guess you could probably do it on the days off but the coach is really. We don't have any days off because the coaches don't it's kind of interesting the coaches doing double duty during the week. Believe it or not so. They're putting in the game plan for that specific team and meanwhile when they come back after practice I seen the practice tape and everything. The players leave the building now they start already working on the next game or so. They're kind of balancing Danzig. Both and then you're also dealing with the GM you're dealing with roster waivers and and pickups and signings and scouting outing and finding out who's going to be a free agent you're dealing with all this information and it does get to be a little bit overwhelming at times especially for the new head coaches. Yeah no doubt who learn on the job basically no question. Here's Charlie iran-contra kickoff the second hour with boomer and Jerry Up Charlie. Hey guys saw royal true. Joe and Evan will arguing yesterday that far one top ten all time. Not here I guess they were. I consumer. I'd like to get your opinion. I think those guys are out of their mind talking about a guy who retired with all numbers and the one that counts the most is the w he also had two or three. MVP's in there as well you know create around three in a row right so I know I hate these lists Charlie because you were were comparing errors and Auto Gremlin like ten championships and Sammy. Baugh was great and different yours. Roger Staubach you know in your eyes. I'm sure is one of the best but is it. Roger Staubach Troy Aikman very similar players and very similar success. Similar success I would from. I didn't see store back live from everything I saw saw that more of scrambling ability where Aikman which is a dead drop back passer on the most accurate passers era right. There's no question about that. I mean so I know were this list did not include drew brees no top ten part of the top ten and that is insane to me. That's insane But I wasn't a part of the voting I was part of the Blue Ribbon panel but I don't know how you can't you can't put him on the list. I it would be on the list before fun for me but doesn't matter I'm not gonNA argue about it. I mean I don't want it. It's the whole hog minute about the hall of fame. I never wanted disparage the guys who get in because they get in because they deserve to be in there and I believe every single one in the hall of fame deserves to be in there for the Great Har- Harry Carson all the way to Dan fouts but they but I also think that there are players that go overlooked time and again and I've and I've said it now for twelve years w. a fan that for me. It's Kenny Anderson and Joe Klecko and I'm like their resumes. Stand the test of time and you can ask any any player that ever played against those guys and I'm sure there are probably fifty guys like this that you know that I'm not talking but I know to these guys. I played against one. I played as a teammate. And watch the other. And so I know it's like when I played with Aeneas Williams. I knew that that guy was a hall of Famer. When I played with Anthony Munoz? I knew that guy I was a hall of Famer you just you just know it and those guys belong on that list. And they're not on that list and they get overlooked. Get once again. And they're we're GONNA have a fifteen person class this year. To celebrate the centennial of the NFL which is really disappointing. But that doesn't mean the fifteen people that are going in don't deserve to win win and it's also when I when you say guy comes up to short you're saying he's pretty damn special. He's just don't think he's all famous right. It's like you're you're insulting them some some way. Here's Mike and Merrick. Who boomer Jerry on the fan and CBS sports network mortar? Mike Hey guys how are you. What's happening I won't time listener I just wanted to make a gentleman point you know I. I don't get on them about the soldier Signing or any agency or any drastic moves. Because I feel like they're all craft shoots but what what did bother me is the way he interviewed. You know he would act like he was smarter than everybody else. And you know when you're left with a nine and whatever wack record and yeah you know you did the manning move and the back of move which was you know. You don't have to be in a football guy to know they were just stupid decision. I don't know how the Guy Retains his job. I don't understand I might come into question when you say stupid decision. What decision regarding Odell Beckham Jr was stupid? Well I mean I guess again. I'm not a dial then as you guys are but I mean signing him to all that giving them all that up for money and then trading him when the warning signs were clearly early there right. I mean you can say whatever you want about the draft picks but I mean it was pretty obvious. Wasn't it that that that he was going to be a problem for the culture. Also I think that you know. He was going into the fifth year of his contract like Aaron. Donald was and Odell Beckham junior at that time was one of the most explosive wide receivers and football and giant fans loved him. Giant kids were buying number thirteen jerseys all over the place remember that how do or he was to do. And you know they had had to sign him and if you remember that summer he basically back everything off from the previous nonsense saying all the right things because he was trying to get a contract out of the giants is the giants decided. Okay you know what we're going to give him the contract. They paid them and then he turned on him in the middle of that season on the interview and then right from at that point on it was like he did not want to play with Eli Manning anymore and he made it known and he basically took himself off the field late in the game after he got over. One thousand yards catching remember that the whole I I can to thing or whatever the hell it was so the giants knew going into the next year they had to move him so at least they traded and got something for him now. They had to eat some of the dead cap money which is what Pat Shurmur was talking about but like that thing changed in like four months. Everybody was happy when he signed the contract and if woman's Woman's later or three months later whatever it was he goes on. ESPN and now everybody's like you got to get rid of. So I mean like what are you supposed to do in a situation like that you have to stick to your conviction and and do you think you're supposed to do as opposed to listen to public opinion right so they did what they thought was right and that was signing him and keeping him John Marijuana to keep them in a giant uniform his whole career and unfortunately it didn't work out because Odell Beckham junior is a very unique and different personality and and they had to get rid of them now now of four months later they had to get rid of them. I would love to know though and I don't know any of the players and I'm not in the locker. I would love to know what the feeling was about him in that locker room. I think the party loved them. I think I think I do to wait outside. See it differently and those of us who are a little bit older agrees and even more differently because we can't believe leave that a guy that's making nine hundred million dollars is going to create this kind of problem in the locker room. We just can't fathom that thought process but but that's kids today. It's my question now more more enlightened than ever more you know they take risks they. They're they're more individuals. They're more about their brands. And they're they're they're more aggressive than ever before. I think a lot of that has to do with how the NBA players have created this partnership with the NBA owners. And now we're making upwards of forty million dollars a year no doubt. The money's changed everything I get it. Even you said it there on one hand you say you think the players love them but then we talk about the mess in the locker room. Like which is I. I think most of the players love them as a team probably loved hanging around. Odell love the whole thing. You know the swag all that kind of stuff love going out with him and probably lose a lot of fun to be the outer ring of that group. You know what I'm saying so But there's always a there's a big difference between Eli Manning at thirty six and Odell Beckham negotiating inching three. No Question Ode L. is one of the best players at his at one. Time was one of the best players at his position. Much like Antonio Brown was but both both of them. Just kind of imploded on them on the teams. They played for Brown more than Beckham. But yes I get your point. That interview completely sealed his fate Outta here. Well Brown's last us that Saturday that last week and the whole thing with Ben Ben initiated all of that and he set brown off because of a play play that happening instant Denver Broncos ben throws the interception and somehow says that Anti Antonio Brown ran the wrong route or randy to a high of around as opposed. Impose a fly route and it was crap venture never thrown it. And what's wrong to a defensive line writer God's sake so ben created that problem but and the avalanche continued and he couldn't help himself right. So you know the Pittsburgh steelers did with the giants did they decided to cut loose and eat the dead cap money which then impacts your team where the steelers. This year they lost their quarterback though. Yes you're right. I'm not arguing with you. But they also had had duck hodges playing quarterback and you can make the case. They did quite well with what they had been rothlisberger plays. I'm sure it will be but I'm just saying sang. That torpedoes your team. And that's the same thing that happened to the steelers happened to the giants they had these be curiel wide receivers who never ever woman. Who never win super bowls by the way? Never win super bowls. I can Baltimore goes to the Super Bowl like who's their big wide receiver. You're absolutely right. They're going to win because of their quarterback his plan. Do you think tyree kill and Kansas City's The deavere I don't I don't think he's. He's gotten no off the field and its been significant in trouble and I think he's toned down his act on the field. I think he's been. Yeah but he's not he's not Antonio he's not Odell he's not those types of guys guys so in terms of the Personality and distraction. He's trying to keep his head down instead of trouble off the field and just play football. Which means I again? It's not like you need to have this top and wide receiver to go to the Super Bowl. No we've learned that we know one hundred percent certain team right now on other teams. You don't need the eagles don't have it and they have one game and a lot of them and there's there's also the there's one guy in this league that I think right now stands head and shoulders above everybody else's wide receiver and that's Michael Tom. Tom Others or Julio Jones Michael Thomas for the resume share. Yeah the word on Michael Thomas is that he is like the first guy in the last guy out. He's working he he just wants to be great and he just wants to continue being great and setting records. And that's the type of thing that you hope you find when you draft these young men. That's the kind of like personal ownership that you want from your players boomer and Geo Gregory back on Thursday a lot to get to your calls at eight seven seven three three seven sixty six sixty eighty six but for now we hear the sounds of Monday crystal. Hi brought to you by two by London. visit the engagement experts at Americana Manhasset East Hampton and Westfield Field World Trade Center safe to say the giants have struggled mightily. Replace Tom Call Photo for two. With Ben macadear and Pat Shurmur. John Mara agrees criticism. You know we've we've failed twice in a row now and you have to keep working at it in Toronto flying the guy. That's all Shurmur fired yesterday. While Dave gettleman remains he is expected to meet the media sometime later this morning as far as filling their head coaching vacancy again. That there are some very attractive candidates out here who will have interest in this job and I believe we will get this already connected to Christopher Chardonnay. The Cowboys Eric Ame with the chiefs and Baylor head coach Matt Rule who worked on Coughlin Staff Back in twenty twelve New York City. Native giants are reportedly his dream job. However he says don't believe everything you read in here as far as him being connected to certain team that will say that? I'm talking to them and say that I already talked to them and it'll be ridiculous. Meanwhile I'm sitting right here with you guys like my son came up to me yesterday. She'll be his phone and says I heard your interview with this team. I said well if you find out what time that is let me know otherwise. We'll just go to practice you got. That was rule yesterday on Fox. Sports Radio Central Texas prepping his Baylor team for for tomorrow night. Sugar Bowl game against Georgia. He's gotTa be terribly frustrating when people are writing things about you and you can read them and see them and you know that there's no truth Through or it's news to you as you're reading about yourself like if you're Adam Gates and things are made up about your. Here's Steve Tissue was in attendance. Yesterday they didn't join mayor at the podium but he spoke with the media afterwards shutdown reports of conflict between he and mayor and making the decisions about Shurmur and gettleman everything and you and I read about friction difference of opinion. I didn't say Sean didn't say it. I read it but it's not true. So what was the Toronto a lot of big news right. So what was the HASHTAG victims. What was the process like? And we've been talking as partners for fifteen years. We talked about these issues starting weeks ago. Inside the locker room. Plenty of respected admirations for Pat Shurmur. saquon Barkley was said here. The new ones you know. We'll go. I like that word. Because you want to figure out one person but it wasn't all a little break update ping pong going on in the background. That for two thousand twenty. The giants dead Cap. Money is not that significant. Well not at the moment. Because they haven't made any cut shifts Janoris Jenkins right. Now is the only one with a three and a half million dollar dead cap hit So I mean that's that's you could live with that. I'd imagine there'll be some numbers added to that. I don't know if they'll be anyone for example. If they cut nate solar not gonNA cut needs. What's his situation for next? Yeah they're not going to cut them. I mean they're going to want him to play if he stinks. Why would they want him to get what Eric Eric Flower stunk here? And then all of a sudden. It's the best offensive lineman for the African redskins. That doesn't help. The giants doesn't calm down. Calm calm down. I don't know what's going to make everybody better next year way. Second Year quarterback who's is going to be more in tune to what the hell it means to be an NFL quarterback. Just like I said about Sam Darnold once he comes back and he figures it all out and he comes down everybody else will be better around him. I see so then. The jets and the giants should just not worry about their offensive line. The quarterbacks will be better and they'll figure it out and they'll be okay so out in Chicago they're saying the same things that we're saying here about these teams and Chicago put a lot of money into their offensive line. Last off season extended contracts and their offense of wine had are horrendous year. How long put on I we are and Mitch trubisky looked like crap Mitchell? trubisky is not a guy that is processing the field right. He's the ball when he's supposed to get rid of and he's helter skelter. He's running all over the replace and he can only handle so much of the offense. You know I don't think that that's going to be the case with Daniel Jones and Sam darnold moving forward. I think they'll continue to grow. Uh Mentally as well as physically mature and everybody around them. We'll be better so the quarterbacks yes have to put their left tackle in a better situation they gotta they gotTa know where to send the offense of pass protection. At the line of scrimmage. They gotta make sure they put them in the right run checks. They'RE GONNA make sure everybody understands what what the next play may be. I mean the on going on just going out there. Throwing the ball Jerry. You're dot says he was quarterback. All right let's be that guy where was where Zeh Giambi any Jose Giambi any ran his now. who were there mustache? Worse Jerry or Mike variable thoughts. What's Rogers fourteen there? At some of the questions worse not re- again Noko Mileti colletti bunch fake news. Whatever you WANNA call it? Yeah but yeah I mean the facial hair fifteen. Yeah I mean I know that was probably in at the time the mustache nineteen eighty eight. I don't remember based on the year. That's what I'm guessing. I've seen pictures of what my brother rather look like in one thousand nine hundred photographer told me to do very natural position again. Photographer told me to do that. All right. All right meantime Manning's last media gathering as a giant most likely Basically confirmed he'll be gone. Did Not enjoy the backup role unceremonious ending to his career rear in blue but he's not unceremonious focused on they not unceremonious meaning. The last two years of the way the employees well all right well okay unceremonious. It's like not he's not going out for riding out on the I'll use my white bronco. Reference guys hated a couple of weeks ago. You know it's it's not all I agree but in this case. That's what's going on scene for Philip rivers right now with the chargers who didn't even speak to the media yesterday here was Eli Committee. Great Eight Great Memories in in Laos and wins and celebrations to To worry about the time you know he's all good and he says he'll. AWW This family make a decision about his future speaking. FM Yeah yes out outside looking in. I'm not a giant when I've looked at Eli Manning. I've thought good quarterback too great runs not an all time great in my mind no not an all-time grade you agree with that. Yes for me. You know from a sentimentality standpoint as as a giant fan all these always have nothing but love for. But when I think of the all time great quarterbacks agreed no BA- game giving give it to me I want them out there. It give it. Give it to me baby way to break it. Down guys Each I'm sorry would you. Would you step aside I here we go. We're GONNA we're going to recall now go to a call millions and by the way no this. Yes if you play today make a thirty day. Notice that Sun sitting here with the thirty five million dollars thank you. Do you Wanna get your claim Mike. What's happened Mike? Good Morning. Happy New Year Gentlemen. Yeah what's going on just I just wanted to counter your point. boomer may perhaps on divas and making it to the Super Bowl winning super bowl of course you play even the Super Bowl Chris Collins. We're back me. He was not a diva. There's no way and Jerry. Rice was not a diva either until later on in his career what I would separate for at the what I mean by David at the end of your career he's playing and continues to play and they wanNA give them days off in practice doesn't WanNa show up and things in that not show up but you know what to take it easy. I always love Jerry Rice because I always thought that he was the greatest football player that I ever saw your. I mean he was a wide receiver. I was productive with the raiders. At the end yeah he was as an I. Don't consider him a diva no. I wouldn't either not at all right. So the divas or the guys that create the problems you know the guys that are you're doing dopey things on the field and don't be things off the field that kind of thing. What else you got Chris? That wasn't that wasn't the mic for me. Pack expecting no what else. Okay all right good Here's another exchange another Adam gays almost as awkward as this is right now Adam Gibson. Monique Mehta in Florin Park yesterday yesterday. At Your Day you don't listen to critical praise. That beats it. Do you have a twitter account. That monitor's I know you do chess match going on there. Right tell you if if he really is the one run and that he was gonNA sermonise. Well we know in stones that's been established is try and set up the coach. If in fact he's the one running it. Yes that's like a new level of Dushanbe like that is like giant. And I'm not GonNa say it but you are going. Yeah coconuts like isn't that almost a at not fireable guy. It's got two words just it's revoked a credential. If that is true and I'm not saying it is I can't believe it did last salaries article I would I based on what I see. I can believe that it would would be but I would hope not if they were found out it was if you're the jets. Don't you have to revoke the credential. I would but you know. Here's the thing I was telling Jerry off the air before four and I I meant to get get to it as that we in the media in this city are the worst enemy of these teams especially when they are obviously playing poorly and a lot of them happen to be playing poorly and we just absolutely pound away at the decisions that are made and like what's happening with munition. The jets right now. Now is really is about as unprofessional as he gets. And they finish zero six and two and he's talking about how Levian bells mistreated how Adam Gazes and care about jeff because he's so supposedly rich I mean. Are you kidding me. This is why what we're talking about and the problem we're talking about Ed but the problem is is that here's a guy that I can't get in doesn't have a source doesn't have anything. So let's just take potshots. Let's see what sticks what doesn't stay. Who cares what's accurate? When thought was half truths what's hearsay and also the WHO cares right? So and and how his Adam Gates postal run a football team when you have all this outside noise and the same for every other team around here and it's not just New York everywhere but it's ever. I hear these bad everywhere. I mean honestly even menu I do respect and has been there probably the longest right. Oh Yeah I'm in Canada. Yeah right right. And even when when he is writing something there's always a tangent negative negatively towards it. There's always some like You know the cynical Jackson Green and I I understand because it's all about winning and they haven't won a super bowl sixty nine. I I understand all that all I'm trying to point out. Is that we in the media us here. This radio station the other radio station. Asian in town. Everybody's got an opinion every social media opinion every podcast out there TV reporter. Maybe not Bruce. Pack he's the Hab but I will say that this is part of the problem of coming here. There's no accountability from all WHO's holding Menashe accountable for anything who holds US accountable when we say something stupid that we've actually written about in the pace sometimes contrary it does all the time but I you know what comes with this business because you you'd like that they we. We are giving opinions here. We're reacting to things that's our job. Yes these guys are supposed to be covering football. Sometimes the opinion is not based on proper facts. I have never heard of a reporter writing about a coach of any team talking about how that coach hates. It's fans but doesn't care because he's a he's rich. Maybe not not that extent but the business has changed where a lot of the beat reporters also are being asked to provide their opinion writing columns podcasts. You know you guys. I don't care about the opinions of fine. They can do whatever they want but they hide under the guise that they are actually reporting facts about the team when in actuality. That's not what's going on here attacking character using anonymous sources to do so it's a slippery slope and you may even be using a burner account well named after the coach's son. That's a whole new. New wrinkle coaches go to and the fact that by the way the fact now that you've dragged the coaches son's name individuals. I I mean again that to me is just. It's off limits out of bounds is stepping over the line. Let me point this out to be fair to both sides right. So let's say whoever for is was behind this account okay is not connected to Adam Gates or niche and sees this as a war going on between the two of them Right and say oh me really going to take this up. What would that surprise you? Nothing would surprise with the stuff that goes on on twitter. I mean Kevin. Kevin Durant was I. I don't for having a famous burn. The sixers executive right Colo- Batman Colangelo. Yeah terrible as far as Jamal Adams goes if you had the trade speculation all these accounts honestly I love garbage all the worst happy the new year. Twenty Twenty Jerry. I think he's he's not going to. He's good so on this note about people throwing stuff out there you keep accusing Jerry Jones with throwing that out there right so people are still talking about this because of the fact that he was maybe on the block and he got all upset and emotional. What was it in November? Whatever the heck the deadline was so now there's thought that maybe they'll revisit that in the off season and then try and move him gates was asked about that as far as I agree? I'm just for Joe. Douglas wasn't here was cases. Response has been one of the best players I've ever seen playing person. He's done nothing but work extremely hard fight through injury. Be there for his teammates. Make plays when we needed him to. He has been Hartselle Varghese so that would sound like A. No then is what you'd imagine. Why not I mean? He's he's he's one of their best players question for Joe Douglas Though maybe today yes. I don't know what time time he is supposed to speak today. I think gentlemen last I heard was supposed to be around eleven o'clock but they were running late yesterday. So we'll see me. I'm Robbie Anderson Itching to get two free agency. He said that he will not sign a new deal until he sees. What else is out there for him in the initial projections put him in the thirteen to fifteen million dollars per year range? That'll be an interesting decision for Douglas. To make guaranteed money. Yes well that's always the key to be a clause in there speaking of something stupid away from the field getting paid speaking the big money. How about your boy? Tremaine Johnson yesterday so complete free agent. Boss he's in year two of a five year. Seventy two and a half million dollar contract. He played in six games James. He landed on injured reserve and then yesterday on his way out the door stiff the media as well. Happy New Year's birthday January I dr ago although his played so right but it's the end of the year usually the IRA guys like Quincy we yesterday spoke and let you know. He hasn't spoken Adam Adam gays since the whole city with the fine. I know you're frustrated. But there's an example of dead money. I mean that's a big signing and that defense is performed above expectations this year because it was coached. Well I mean you. Can't you've been on Williams all year right right. He's been great and they also traded Leonard Williams. Great move right maybe a great move for the jets. Maybe not so much for the giants but the giants would get a compensatory pick if he doesn't resign with the giants so it's not like they really more most likely in the third round around depends on the contract right depending on the contract that he gets where he goes. So did you see yesterday. The dolphins moved on from their offensive offensive coordinator Patriots. Yes okay so yeah I mean he's with the pats ten years so floors brings him down. Fitzpatrick has a great year. You know as far as is there ranks. They weren't great but they decided to move on from him. Now they have. The word is out now about who the replacement is going to be the NFL network. Is Ian Rapoport. Tom Po Po Sarah. He won't take guests no think really old school at Pennington. No tall same first name then. Chad Chad not close. Not Saying I in close Chaz. Shane galleys time. honorees with you in the fliegelman alerted. The key will be sixty eight on Sunday at all. He looks older than he is. Coach the cowboys four hundred year old then and he was with the jets obviously see with Fitzpatrick as the OC and fifteen and sixteen. So apparently they're going to bring him in. He's going to run the spread. So you'll have fits if he resigns and then whatever young quarterback. They ended up with Brandon Marshal. Maybe they could. I'm Coughlan seventy-three anybody interview him. No I think he's done. I think he's done after. What just happened in Jacksonville with you know talking about? I mean the team's coach close. I understand. But what got him in trouble in Jacksonville trouble well you know because he was hard on the players about the fines he would. He would be doing the same thing as the coach for players. So it's not gonNA fly. He didn't WANNA stand for Jalen Ramsey putting his hands on Doug marrone and I don't blame them because no coach it ever have their hands touch. You know I mean nobody's touched by the player's that's that's that's crossing the line. I don't care unless of course a coach attacks a player for some reason which could happen like joey porter may go after somebody but yeah i Tom Coughlin's ways. Unfortunately I think it'll work anymore are not gonna work anymore as much as you like them. Respect Him and honor his legacy as a football coach. And somebody. Who's done just about everything in this league? It's unfortunate you mention marrone. He's meeting with ownership today. And Jerry Jones is apparently to meet with Gary and Steven Jones again and you had Seton Hall with the victory last night. Rutgers why they're playing caldwell great okay so they won and the nets lost in Minnesota at this stage of the Bryant get back to twelve ninety four forty nine for the scarlet knights. Lose to the Timberwolves Minnesota all three hockey local in action tonight. The rate cut it back Jerry. Palm Os continues out the air. Yes get the hell out of here. New Year's Eve happy holiday. Yes alive today but I felt like it was important to come in for one of us be year because of all the coaching changes. Michelle Michelle. And we'RE RIGHT SMACK DAB in the middle of it right now at the giants fans. You could tell still not happy happy. They want they wanna blow this whole thing up but just start over again but I do think they'll be happy if they get the right guy in and I think when you look at the list of coaching candidates I don't see one on the list. Maybe a Chris Rashard. Who the hell was this guy? But I think if you told me you ended up with Mike McCarthy as your head coach ended up with Matt rule is your head coach. I think John would rejoice the moments after that. That is announced announced. I really do. I think they would feel like all right now. We're headed in the right direction. I'm telling you we have it. Yeah the the giant Fan would love McCarthy because of his history where he came from Western. Pa a roots football on his blood and all that other stuff plus. They know that he has one. So that would be like Barry trots islanders. Yeah it's exactly exactly what it is. It's I'd say get get a guy that has a track record. That's an older guy that knows how to you know call plays and all that. Because that's what he'll do and he'll work with young quarterback much like he did did with Aaron Rodgers and he worked through the whole Brett. Farve thing I see that that would be perfect. The other thing would be mad matt role as a gruff New Yorker. That's what the as you heard him. Play his his cuts and he gets the whole thing around here. He's no joke at. I'm sure the players that played for Temple and the players a platform at Baylor. You know probably like them. No doubt you know and I know that Phil was telling US yesterday. These pretty good friends with the guy he said. Yeah he's GonNa make good head coach some day in the NFL and maybe this year may not be this year and if it is true that he told the jets. Look if I can't hire my own coaches not coming I liked. That was what you want. I I want a guy that is you know. Wants to have his hand in everything which Matt certainly has done at Temple and Baylor now come into the NFL's a little bit different but had a taste of it for a little. While under Tom Com. You live the life. All these guys know what they're doing. I believe that aside from a select few that may not and we've certainly highlighted them over the years most of these guys. Do you know what they're doing. And when they lay out a game plan they have an idea how it's going to succeed why it's not going to an ultimately comes down to the guys that are on the field to do it the problem with today A.. and which is why. I think a guy like McCarthy works better in terms of the giants is the giant fan wants an established coach. That's got a track record. He's got that Pat Shurmur did not have that as a head coach he did. There's a coordinator. He didn't as a head coach. When you have back to back years like he did the fan base going to react the way they react and then we're going to chain and his previous stint at the browns is no matter? How dysfunctional that franchise is is going to come into play to nine and twenty three of both places I you know I understand the reality of it all but I also understand listening to John? Mayer talk about Dave Gentleman and the reality of that aspect of two and the things that we don't see his fans and broadcasters. Here's a question. Kenan Ralway with boomer and Jerry on the fan and CBS sports sports network. What's up Ken bike? I was just wondering if somebody can help me figure out a little bit I. I'm very frustrated. Like these. These pain in the ass players never workout got you got all these millions and millions of dollars floating around and as a fan. I can't even afford to go to and I make a good living and I'm priced out of even going to a game and and these guys are just tossing around tens and tens of millions of dollars. Every team has players that fall under that line white umbrella yet is a wider Roy and a lot of teams a Lotta Leagues have players like that because it takes all types you know and and I've heard say a little bit in relation to the NFL awkward. You GotTa have dogs in there. You gotTa have a Richie Incognito go in there you know you gotTa have. I'm just trying to think who you know like a tough nasty pain in the neck. You know like a Ray Lewis. This is that kind of player. You know a guy that's going to just basically take the entire team and say look let's go kick some ass and he's going to be so like ingrained into the the The fabric of that franchise that people have to follow him because they'll perform and when he was at the top of his game. You know nobody was better. You need leaders. You need guys that are going to go out and do what they're paid to do. and to me. A great example of just collecting star players not working year after year is the Redskins wins. I mean you can look at every not every year because they I think they did win the division a couple times in the last ten twelve started with Albert hanes worth right. I mean you said Sanders Auburn Hanes. It's worth Josh. Norman Landon Collins. I mean all these guys that supposedly where these great players because they made a couple of pro ball ainsworth is a great day got. I paid huge money by Dan. Snyder and dysfunction of the redskins and the last ten years. It's been a disaster. And then you look at certain fan bases that want their teams to spend money on the big ticket players. It's gotTa work like the personalities have to Mesh for it to actually Take Place on the field. That's not always the case here. It has been hold on a longtime driven even too. So I'd love to be in Tucson I know Dave pretty good I'm the Guy My son's in the navy. boomer I boxed in over there at the headline is you pulled over a couple of years back He's in he's in Philadelphia and I just wanted you know talk about his giants jets. But I I gotta say Tennessee's GonNa the Patriots too and I liked the saints in the Ravens. I know you've been talking a lot of jets the giants center. I think even the niners are going to you. Know stay eight air but saints look like they should have been there last year and I think they get A. I'M GONNA put down. I'm going to laugh when next weekend. I'll put down that. They'll win it all probably be a long shot then the Ravens Ravens are nine. I think the ravens the chiefs and the niners are probably a little bit Lower odds ravens the overall fame. Then the saints. The saints are a good team though. Man Man Sean. Payton and drew brees. I think the packers are the I actually are Jay Jay talking about these odds driving in. Yeah I think the packers hackers or the value bet where you get good you get good odds on them right at least have one home game but you saw what happened. They have to go to San Francisco. You know oh down in Santa Clara where they play blast. Aaron Rodgers only three point ninety art blast but niners defensible banged up though too right I mean. It's not the same defense the first time around. I thought their defense against Seattle on Monday to Sunday night was a lot better than we the previous couple of weeks but even then they almost gave up the a game winning drive right because Russell Wilson's ridiculous. Yeah Russell Wilson is like the epitome of what you have to have as a quarterback in this league. Because he doesn't he has some good players players around him obviously got no running. That's why they had to bring back. Marshawn marshawn all this stuff offensive line was rebuilt a little bit but they were missing a couple of guys in the offensive line and somehow he kept if that game whether it was thirteen. Nothing and a half time and he had a chance to win the game and the ball get stopped at the one inch line noon. That's some game. Here's Aw man here is i. Don't know where to go here. Here's Ron in Florida. There's a good question for you all right answer what's up. Hey Good morning guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure boomer that rule. Yeah what the Hell is what the Hell is wrong with. Not Having a guy who wants to win and bring his own staff with him. I would have you yeah I agree with you. I mean one hundred percent of you. This just goes to show you that that that jet organization nobody in that organization. They should knows what the hell they're doing. For God's sakes I mean they really don't I really believe they don't care about winning. I really believe I don't buy running. I it's ball this is this is one of the things I don't get that I don't understand. I know there are people that don't like Adam gays for whatever reason whether it's the way calls plays or the way he speaks speaks in his press conferences or the hats that he wears whatever it is but if I were a jet Fan after one year I would say I want my coaches not going anywhere I want him. I'm the be successful. I want my team. The win there is a sense. This is strictly from a fans point of view. There is a sense that press conference conference means something. And I'll give you two examples right now. I know to to me. Is I know that but REX Ryan over fan base because of his persona at at the press conference kissing anybody's rings yes but also he answered questions. There was a personality to him. So when you come in and you WANNA act like bill ballot check. It works for ballot check because he wins every other year. It feels like if you're Adam gays all you're doing is making it harder on. Don't you understand what what's going on here. I mean there there are forces that are working against him in the public In the I I in the public that are in these newspapers are on this radio radio station where it just this. The cynicism the anger the our team sucks. We haven't won. I mean just over Ralph and over just like beat you over the head and this is why whoever the giants higher better be able to weather that part of it. And that's why it's such an important because I don't I think people thought Pat Shurmur could handle that part of it especially when you're losing losing is when you have to be able to and what are your friends. Think about your giant friends. Think about not his press conferences. Because they would tell you. He can't arrogant arrogant. That's my buddy. He's a great guy happened to my. Yeah Buddy Bruce cazalet here. You've got relies on. He got more and more annoyed more more condescending and one time he actually one of his press conferences on the phone from his office. Did he the penalty. What are you doing? He's doing his ways what he's doing but ended up getting fired after four years right. That's what happened Dylan and Rockin Rochman Rochman Donny. Don what's happening. Hey guys look I'm I'm a newspaper editor and run going and Looking Minnie's meadow that's true. I I think he'll be fired. Because you can't spoof your own story writing fake a character and then you put it in your own any any time that's ever happened. I know it's a column so it's a little lower standards than the news department. But any time that's happened in In the newspaper industry they fired the guy so I would expect at. That is what happened. He would be like. Oh I kind of feel like mini. She's like out on his own island like he does whatever he wants whenever he wants to do. It just does does it. Yeah but this I'm with I'm certainly with Dylan. Ice At revolt credential. But that's true. He island always has been. I have no fan state law. I don't want to pin it on any particular character but somebody made up a burner and then it got caught but what would turn on Friday. He would fire him like Jerry. Saying you know Geo Sucks. I should have got the job. Yes fired right. Yeah I I would agree in that sense. You should be fired one hundred percent but you know I can't really think I don't know man I don't know it just doesn't look right. It doesn't smell right but I just for me. There's no sense it's for Adam. Gays do anything here. Just coached a team. Give your press conferences and don't worry about it. Let him right the ridiculousness. You're right if some jet FAN wants to buy into into that crap then they're not on on your side anyway but the fan as we have learned with the giants play a part and they I mean look at what the fan. I'm trying what was the. Oh God the jet GM Isic Yeah. I mean Johnny Z. Got Fire granted history. He knew so well but he got fired. Because they were flying banners over the over the Facility and the the outcry from the fans did not afford him to finish that year so the fans like it or not have a big voice pointing. They do because their season isn't it. And so my point is when you're if you're Adam Gates you could be the greatest football coach of all time. I don't know that but I'll tell you that the jet fan that doesn't like him doesn't like the persona now you know it was amazing. Is that as a season ticket holder of the Rangers. When I got the letter that they were rebuilding the team in the middle of the season? Everley I you you know I understood it. It made me mad because I had paid full prices now for a sharp bottom of the barrel price team and I'm going going to catch ten games. Now that I'm watching all these young kids play or not work wiring young kids and I'm not gonNA even get a chance to see and I'm going to have to wait another year or two before they get here because we have the draft them and we have to acquire these other young assets from these other young From these other teams and when I was going to put them in uniform until the next year and we're not GONNA win next year which was last year because it was gonNA take that much time to get acclimated to the NHL and here we are near to of that or two and a half. I guess and I'm starting to see growth. I'm starting to see something and when you add a guy like Perrin who turns out to be one the better players in the league you can buy in as a ranger fan. You have competent people making the right decisions or you have but you also have that trust in the organization innovation. I trust new organization. I do because we had ten years of winning but although we didn't win the championship but we were in the class every year right and it was a great run and there was a lot of good players a lot of great players that came through here high character players. Everybody liked them and they have to make hard decisions and they're going to have to make some more hor decisions here coming coming in the next six weeks. Your point is valid but I don't think it correlates to the jets in a jet fan the Rangers. I know it's I know. They've won the Stanley Cup. Since ninety four I understand stand but they've been a good team every year with a chance and they've been the Stanley Cup finals. They played the Kings in the finals. The Jet Fan hasn't had that in a long time problem. The problem with the jets and and the giants is that they're caught in this cycle now of higher fire higher fire higher fire. And all I'm saying is that can we just give somebody the more than two years. Can we give some. I know we gave Todd Bowles four years and Mike mcalinden four years so there was some there was some patients there with that the jets have been more than the giants recently right but again here we are with the jets. It's only the first year Joe. Douglas hasn't really done anything yet. He's going to have a press conference today. Talking about out you know what the hopes and dreams are of of the franchise and where he feels like. He's going to have to try to improve the team and the same gettleman will say but get them in now is starting his third third year. He's gone through cancer. He drafted saquon Barkley. Daniel Jones man. That's pretty good. I to draft picks plus extra lawrence all right so it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing he traded Zeitler or is a good player. Man I don't care what anybody says. Now how appeal is going to miss next year because they killy's but you know he'll have to find a senator he'll have to find you know maybe I starting left tackle. Maybe move nate's older to right tackle. Maybe go to nate and say hey you know we paid you to be the left tackle. We'll get to the right tackle. Maybe take some money off the contract or whatever but these are all the things that he's going to have to go through right now and he'll try to explain it today. I hope becomes off good and I hope he says at the right way because I I just WANNA keep changing. Don't WanNa keep doing this every two years I it's it's mine. I mean the mets doing it. The Knicks do it but listen to it because of again they per day looms in new ways as I like. I like what the Nets Sean marks came here. He's the guy this is what we're doing but there's been progress while this ruining twelve next year next year they'll be if durant does come back next year will be they're Belco year but out But I still think that you know I don't see Do you see Kenny. Atkinson get invited anytime soon but But the nets have been progressing and getting better each year since he's been here and you believe in the model and what he's doing. I hope so I tell me. We'll coach should've stayed the I don't know Mike then Tony. I'll give you that one that's fair you know. But he couldn't deal with Carmelo which it comes down to player personnel. which comes comes down to you know? Jim Dolan thinking that he needed a star in the garden and they did win fifty five games the one year one year. I know veins success. Yes I understand but it's not like Carmelo wasn't a good player. He wasn't the last few years but when he got here he was. I mean it did work for a little while. It just fell apart very quickly and then go through the coaching carousel. And now you're in the hell that you're still in and they and the biggest problem with the Knicks. We're way off topic is they can't attract a star player player. Haven't been able to do it. And that's why Karl Anthony towns I would think for Knick fan is very appealing go get him via trade. But we're not just by the way we're not going off track queerest. Well we're talking about is front office decision making your consistency keeping people in place you know I would say that. WFAN believe it or not mark. Chernoff runoff has been here for what thirty years eight stability right. Yeah one of the reasons why the station has been as good as it's been is because it's program director knows who to put on the air for the most part more than yes so I would agree with that and then back to your original point head coaches if you have the fortitude in you have the belief in your head you've got to come out. And if John Mara who said yesterday it bothered him to a point to make this move because he really likes Shurmur and thinks if he had more should give them more time. Then that's why this Tisch move more than Merrill move. That's that's the fifty fifty partnership usually but Jia Saudis on vacation house back on Thursday. So I sit with blooms until ten am sitting in for me to my right is a bit of a state of the union from Giants Co owner. John Mary yesterday. After the giants of course announced the firing of head coach Pat Shurmur. First things. First there's plenty of blame to go around for this situation. We'll start at the top. So yes you can criticise me. All you want it would be warranted because it all starts at the time. One of the the reasons for shareholders ouster bill. There were so many games that I felt like. We should have one and we just didn't get the job done foreign twelve this season nine and twenty three across two years. That's three straight seasons with double digit losses. Now four out of five day. Get them survives for now he certainly added some key pieces but also some questionable moves along the we could have a difference of opinion about whether those were hits or misses through definitely have been some Mrs no question about it. I think that can happen to anybody. So what is his mission and now we need to win more games and Dave knows that. And that's GonNa be the challenge going forward to is the fact that they just haven't been relevant in December December November November right and that changes the equation to in terms of staying with this coach in particular her for an extra year or even two who knows. Yep So guy win more games which led to the obvious question how many I'm not going to quantify the number wins. I need to see but and we need to be able to put a better product on the field. That's all. He does want the job I really would. If I were a coach out there looking spot right now it's going to be a good spot. It's it's GonNa be you know. These kids grow up together is a lot of good young players here not enough. And they'll have to supplement some of these with some key free agency signings as off season. And but you have your young quarterback. That's what I believe is the most important thing and that's why this will be really attractive now whether or not you know it comes down to relationships ships with the GM. That's a whole nother story. But I would think because of what. Dana Jones has shown this year and the development of Daniel Jones under Pat Shurmur. The next coach going to be the lucky guy. That's going to inherit that. Well that's kind of what Shurmur had said on Sunday after the game and then Mar echoed that yesterday. got a terrific young quarterback we've got a young roster. We're the best cap space shape. We've been in many year and they will own the fourth overall pick in the draft some thoughts from Daniel Jones after he and his teammates mates got the news on Schumer's firing world of him. I have you know ultimate amount respect for for him as a coach and as a as a person and he knows they ultimately contributed to his demise. You know the players sure you know very very largely responsible for trout. This season's gone you know I think You know I certainly feel responsible now. He's got on his his numbers. Sixty fifty one percent he played in twelve games started sixty two percent of his passes through for over three thousand yards and had twenty four twelve in my day. That would be a great guy. Forget your forget day if you look at Eli numbers in four. He blew them out of the water. Did Yeah and we know that. So we've seen in this kid. Now he just has a little fumblitis yes. He's got to work on that and that's going to be something that whoever the next coach is is going to have to really just driving driving is man. You gotta put your hand on those ball you gotta hold on. You also had a big part of their problem to you. At a secondary that Antoine empathy engineers engine works Jenkins in it and at times looked like they didn't know what the hell they were doing. You had play Baker blue number of coverages a lot of young guys minds or secondary and we highlight it and talked. What about George Jenkins pulled up lame? Instead of trying to tackle it still part of the culture problem that that was still hanging over from the last group that was here. ooh That's the end up having him but isn't that on the last bit of dead money when this guy goes after somebody on twitter and uses the words the he used and shows no remorse is trying to explain himself because this is all before it though now but what. I'm saying that that but that's who the player is your coaching. They were talking about having quality talk. About how bad the defense was and the defense was not good. We know that but the secondary God destroyed inserting my point. Is You had a quarterback back that took over the Ranger Owen to that. Had I mean. He exceeded every expectation in his rookie. Year if they were the defense that the Seattle seahawks had when Russell so Wilson got there they would have gotten to the playoffs. That's how good this kid played right. And if guys like Bethesda and Jenkins played up to their capability they should have been better to and they didn't so Shurmur out and that obviously means and that's why we kept sims in between the two yesterday Social Jones will have to learn a new offense vents in year. Two just like Sam Darnold had to deal with with the jets and speaking of which. Here's Donald coming out of year. One in Adam Gates. There's still room to be more consistent but as a whole I felt like the back half of the season As an offense we really felt more comfortable in play. More consistent obviously led to part or a part of the reason they were able to go sixty two two in the second half lead bell will be looking for some more production in two thousand twenty. Assuming he's still here. Frustrating first season with the team career lows in almost every category he engaged spoke okay yesterday about making a plan for next year's one of those things that allows us to evaluate kind of what we did as an offense. Then I can go back to him and we can kind of talk through all that stuff when we get back in spring seeming he actually shows the. Ta's boomers pointed out season finishes ever carry over the next year. I I I think for young quarterbacks Ken so like this six listen to finish darnold progressing should have them in line to start right and he's GonNa come back in the same offense same coaching staff. There'll be some some wad similar players around him and things of that nature. Hopefully they'll add a few more. But you know I. It should be better next year Baker Mayfield took a step back. I think they didn't have the right head coach. Lamar Jackson took the step forward because they committed to him and he started to understand that offense and they played the strengths. Josh challenge improving because he was in the same offense and got his team to the playoffs. I could see that going on and winning in Houston by the way so so we'll see if bell is here. Same goes for Robbie Anderson who set to hit unrestricted. Free Agency was things that allows is very exciting on draft. You know in and not the tables turn you know kind of feel like the words in my hands attitude. Good for him right. Exactly the free agency and now the question is is somebody going to trust them with a lot of guaranteed money he says if he does resign with the jets will not be early. On in the process of Venice perspective move slide. Why would gluttonous you value truly could be early projections and the thirteen to fifteen million dollar per season? Range obviously is boomer pointed out last last hour all that would depend on the guaranteed money elsewhere you got the browns and panthers looking for a new head coach. Here was Cleveland. Whiteout Jarvis Landry yesterday after saying some nice things about the fired. Freddie kitchen structure Steve just leadership leadership. Josh mcdaniels. The hot name in that search enrich Mike McCarthy expected interview as well and the Redskins are expected to hire former panthers head coach Ron Rivera as their new leading. Man You still got some uncertainty surrounding Jason Garrett in Dallas. I met with Jerry Jones Monday. Those two along with executive VP. Stephen Jones reportedly expected to meet again. Today Dolphins moved on from offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea after just one one season. They are reportedly bringing Chan Gailey out of retirement for twenty twenty. He'll be sixty eight years old on Sunday. He actually recruited Brian Flora's when he was coming out of high school kidding. Yes us and then They faced each other quite a bit throughout the years in the AFC East Galley most recently. Of course the offensive coordinator for Todd Bowles with the jets in fifteen and sixteen and he also previously Veasley served as dolphins offensive coordinator way back from two thousand to two thousand one well traveled in the NFL for sure fresh off a fourteen and two regular season capturing the one seed seed in the AFC. John harbaugh points out. Many people were laughing at the Ravens during the off season they traded Joe FLACCO and turn to Lamar Jackson. It's okay you know. If you're not there laughing Gotcha. Your dreams aren't big enough so we've got big dreams big goals big ambitions big faith. Trust right yeah. That was not planned either. Just telling you what he said. Man Guys can manufacture things in their brain. Maybe it was beyond just the quarterback situation. Lauding them no for actually making the movin moving forward. Everybody the one thing I will not laughing but people wondered because he did say we're GonNa do things on offense that nobody's ever seen before okay. Yeah was that part of it. But put that old pertains to the quarterback yes and making a commitment to his skill set. Yes they did so. I don't think anybody you know he's going to probably get coach coach of the year. I would think you'll be coach. A lot of good candidates out there pretty bright but you know when you think of when I think coach of the year I they have a coach that basically weekly turned his entire team over to a different way of doing things and it it it manifested itself throughout the entire year I Mike Tomlin had you know had adjust or in the year and there was a point in time there where he did a unbelievable did the best job he would've had Sean Payton Teddy Bridgewater but obviously you could see that. They have a very good team around. Whoever the quarterback is going to be able? It could be Mike Gabel. Who made maybe? What is the decision of the year? Sean McDermott Yep he's another. Oh Cal Shanahan plenty candidate pointing to candidates but I think from start to finish if you ask me. I think harbaugh's the guy that really sticks out because they also lost CJ Moseley and they drafted all these guys the last couple of years and all these draft picks that they've hit on are all either on the offensive line or running down down the field as tight ends. And you WANNA talk about hitting free agency. Mark Ingram tremendous production in year one couple from College Football Florida Beach Areas Jameis Winston. I do have it. I was hoping I actually I have about four areas clips that I was GONNA fire in succession next hour. Right now carries clarinet. Play one or two the next All right see now. You're going to not going to find it. You'll be fine right so here was the one this is from yesterday because there was some stuff from Sunday as well which we didn't get to yesterday but this was yesterday yesterday. His season wrapup press conference. Wherever zero wants to ask about James Winston and I guess Winston yesterday at some point talking about his numbers used? I used the term Baldwin about described his performance ever by the way thirty three touchdowns thirty interstate and it was a pick six overtime to and the game that sealed the thirty six and he ended six and by the way areas has been very defensive. The wrong word. He's gone out of his way to support Winston throughout the a lot of them weren't his fault. He's doing a lot of great things. But you could tell in the post game Sunday it was just like Oh my God so this was yesterday. What people want to know about James's long-term future Potentially with Tampa Bay seems a good enough to win with another quarterback. Oh Yeah when we win we can definitely went with another. Because we're GONNA have a different couches at the end there where they were gonNA defense. Wow so yeah yeah Give me another quarterback. I'll be fine. Kill US yeah right kind of a game against Atlanta was kind of what his season's been it's amazing throws and just had some horrific news and ended up killing him in his defense. Their top three procedures were gone by the end of the year. Godwin Mike Evans. I think somebody interception. Oh listen I'm not. I actually took a dump. Maddening player. Couldn't believe it was that many maddening he's like from the old. AFL days for Jerry. I ever thirty be pissed. Let it let it rip and let it go. We'll get you a couple more areas next hour Couple of high pro- high profile high high profile prospects that have declared for the NFL draft Ohio State running back J K Dobbins and then Really the other day you had Oklahoma white out CD land but I didn't get to mention that yesterday NBA NBA. The Nets did lose to the Timber Wolves in Minnesota one twenty two to one fifteen at three straight losses now and four out of five for the nets not a good night. For Kenny. The Atkinson's we were lucky. lucky to get overtime quite honestly and Halftime I've I've felt like we're just not plan at a at a at a at high levels thirty six in defeat Shabazz Napier eight of his season-high twenty four in ot against his former team. The bucks improved to thirty and five. Hi They beat up the Bulls won twenty three one to defy. Yeah Sons of the Blazers One twenty to one Sixteen College hoops Seton Hall Nice. Win Over to Paul Seventy four sixties sports network who they were just showing highlights and Jared Allen threw a fastball at the The the hoop basic. He missed his target by five yards. The Easy Win for over Caldwell Ninety four forty nine tonight on the ice you got the devils hosting the Bruins. Islanders visit the capitals and the Rangers Begin A three-game Western Canadian the in swing there and Edmonton st against the oilers are Chris. Thanks very much to the fans. CBS sports now. Great Abbey Weather's but we've got breaking. News is powered by radio. Dot Com sports brought to you by the Mercedes. Sprinter Mercedes beds board. Take it away right. The redskins have agreed to a five year. Deal with Ron Rivera as their the next head coach as reported by Mike Silver of the NFL network and also being reported. Now that Mike McCarthy's come this weekend to meet with the New York giants. WFAN's breaking news powered by radio DOT COM sports and brought to you by the Mercedes Sprinter for Mercedes Benz and that's what every fan wants to hear. I think so josh. mcdaniels Chris Rashard and now Mike macari Mike McCarthy and I and I guess Matt Rule probably be in there somewhere online. I would imagine it's got a game by the way. Yeah he's GonNa he's GonNa Kabo. Although the ain't going to cove getting interviewing Ted. He sent his radio interview yesterday. That he's heard nothing right going to Kabul with his wife and kids okay okay and if they want if anybody wants to talk to him come find me and cobb his comment all right. Well that that could be able to difficult to deal with. I would think that if the New York giants call you you want to give you an interview to the head coach of the New York football giants you get off your ass and you come to New York and you meet with the marriage and the tissues. That's what you do. How do you think the president? This is one of thirty two man. You understand saying I do want to thirty. Yes thirty two teams one job. You also think this is probably leaked at Mike. McCarthy's coming here to help the press conference conference along today. Probably sued some of the questions. True that will be thrown Dave governments way but Dave's has strong guy. He'll handle it. I'm sure he'll be a little bit feisty the if you will I'm sure he'll also admit that he has made some bad decisions but at the same time while he'll have to admit those I hope he doesn't or they don't don't forget some of the decisions that he had to make that were unpopular that turned out to be the right decision. And that's why this morning to meet eleven o'clock why it's so interesting to me because is he didn't speak all year most GM's talk during the by lady didn't he didn't Sivas it really. Well I mean from from coaches standpoint a player's standpoint. I don't need to hear from the GM maybe the fans want to hear from them. That's fine but I think he tried to stay out of the way and hopefully he's healthy and hopefully that wasn't the reason why he didn't get involved and I think John Mara spoke yesterday pretty clearly about why I think he was his kept on I. I just think there's a happy happy meal you don't need to be the Jones family where you're talks. You talk twice a week right but I do think once in a season especially season that's gone completely awry. I think it's the right thing to do during the bi week. Well I mean to each their own and everybody's different just because the general manager owner of the Dallas Cowboys speaks five times. A week doesn't mean that everybody. He has supported that suit. Because some say that's too much and it is too much. I always feel like the managers in baseball. Talk Too much before game. He gives them for their money. Is Crazy crazy right. And he's twice a week Jerry's twice a week. I think it's Monday. And then Friday as well and Steven talks as well right and then if they need to get something out they'll tell Jane slater and then she'll put it out there. I suppose I like her too. She's just doing her job. Why do you keep bringing that up though? That happens about it but it really bothered. Because he did the same thing that the Seattle seahawks in regards to Earl Thomas the same thing same thing. Yeah but there was also mutual interests. Don't ever hear anybody about like Dallas players away that all of a sudden all these players are headed to Dallas but there was around the trade deadline. Would all you hear a rumors. But the jets weren't gonNA. We're GONNA Trade Jamal Adams unless the Dallas cowboys were so desperate and I put that was part of it. I mean I didn't I will say this that there's no way the Dallas cowboys. I was GonNa Resign Amari Cooper. I wouldn't but they can't have the money to do. He'll be a free agent wide receiver that will be available Byron Jones. A free free agent defensive back that will be a valuable players. I don't think they've got more than half the roster signed major issues. And you got to pay the quarterback. Even if it's the franchise Chai's tag. He's got to get paid for this year as well and Yeah Mark Cooper is last month of the season did himself no favors in terms of getting a big deal disappearing in big spots when they're being pulled off the field or taking himself off the field in Philadelphia on key third and fourth down suggestions on. Anyway I was telling you that before the break me and President Obama have in common right. And you know I'm pretty. I was pretty happy to see this. He tweeted yesterday that like one of his favorite shows is on prime on mine. Challenge you know and so it's fleabag binge fleabag the other day it was awesome. Here's your watch. If I have a little extra time I'll try to start bingeing a show here or there and I found this one and long behold I see yesterday he tweets out that or prime tweeted out that he must have said that he liked that show all right. I'm going to Nebraska for Thursday night right. Can you doubt you have private. Yes yeah download. These I need a Wi fi connection a I am assuming Anita Wi fi connection of course and that's fine you can have one on the plane right. I suppose but your promise me I will not disappoint. Just download them before you leave. That's what is needed. Why there you go all right? I'm I actually. I actually got it. I saw it on the plane going out to La okay. This is a new Disney movie. A new episode. It's not moving. It's a serious right and IT'S A it's A. It's a dark kind of funny comedy. Um and it's written by the Star actress and she created the whole thing and she directs it and she talks to you and the castle me with the amount uh-huh you have watching TV. Because I know that hold on timeout. A second timeout. Yes in this case. You're on an airplane. In a lot of cases you will come in. Hey guys did you see this. And you spent the previous afternoon watching seven episodes of it or eight episodes anytime you've got the NFL today. You've got your hockey team. You've got this. Yes the fact that you find the time fascinating that you play golf in the spring summer and fall and you binge watch shows right well when you're stuck on an airplane for six hours so it's a good thing to do this case. Ace Yes if you need a show to binge do bench fleabag and the other Real quick the other Kaminsky method. No the the three hour movie. What the Hell's the name Irishman worth it or not? Yeah it's worth it. Yeah definitely hours down. Well it depends on you're GONNA be stuck in an air. We'll just asking you it worth my time. If you if you if you like. The I thought Joe Patchy was awesome in the movie. I thought Al Pacino was awesome in the movie. Robert Deniro you know. So uh-huh miss an actor but the thing is a good movie I it just. It's a long sit down. We're not used to that. And then how about this the other day. AMC Had the godfather marathon earth on on. They thought so little godfather three not included. It went from one to one to remember. We gotTA play three. I'm not gonNA play play that which won the series one and two are like glitzy move no doubt but you gotta finish. It can't call it a marathon. Go One two one two and skipped three just watchfully bag and just keeping your cardinal years. Just let me know what you think is great all right Steven Fair port. St What's happening sporting gentlemen. Former first of all say you've got pulled other things in common with President Obama Your family man your class and you don't golf so I think there's some Arctic rich. He's very rich Jerry. There was a sixth man of the year. War for broadcasters. I think I'd like to nominate you every time every time you you called out and you step in you. Drain a few threes hit a nice perspective. So so thank you very much Dave. You're welcome so let's turn our attention to the Howard Hughes used benefit football. I'm glad miss together is finally coming out of hiding. I think today is about as important press conference for general managers. I can remember are former. I agree with Mary Hill. The conference really well yesterday. I thought the fact that he pointed to all the changes being made in kind of a shift towards analytics and The fact that detested having another fans in the stadium I got was great. I WANNA see some humility out of I don't need to hear him. Pollen Paul Schwartz son or Kim Jones sweet yeah I'd like to hear some responsibility for the firing of coach he's ever hired and he's gotta be open you know. He blasted athletics last year his arrogant way and he's got to be a little bit more open to that. What you got to look like a general manager? Another coach wants to work with. Don't you yeah I agree. I agree savings and I think you will. I think you will. It'd be it'd be somewhat contrived I don't but I also also know who he is. I Ki- that's part of. What makes him him? You know it's as Boston roots. And the way he fights back and he wants to let you know that he knows what he's doing and I'm he's been around the NFL long long time any knows how the inner workings of the giants work which is very important for the person who is occupying that chair. I I hope whoever he hires I hope he allows him to bring his staff. Unless of course there's something that they know about a staff member that they don't want a part of the giants so there's there's always that member brier. There's always that possibility as well too. He may say to Mike McCarthy. Who's your defense coordinator? He may say Jim has let they've got him in May know Jim has looked from another stop or for something else that he's not going to feel comfortable with having him as and I'm not saying that I know any of I'm just using this example that he may say to. You know Mike you know that's good but I can't. I can't have him in the building or for whatever whoever it may be so that also goes into part of the interview process. It's not just okay mic. You come on in and bring everybody with you. I need to know who you're bringing with view. Well I think they both need to be in lockstep with every move that's made. Yeah because you know there's another guy could have gotten in trouble like in another organization somewhere right now. We don't know no about that. Wants the press figure out who everybody is and then they start going into the backgrounds. You just never know what might be there and the giants don't want to be embarrassed. That's why you you have to go through a thorough interview process of every single Canon. Not just the head coach. But all the assistant coaches that he's GonNa WanNa bring with him or or maybe get them and has an idea of pairing Mike McCarthy with a certain quarterback coach or something that maybe Mike doesn't know or maybe doesn't I don't know one more Jimmy and Pompton lakes with boomer and Jerry. What's up Jim? Hey what's going on New Year. All right Jimmy. What's going on? How you doing Laura Giants Fan here? I think the giants if I like Matt Rule but I also like Mike McCarthy did you guys see that little Article about him a little video. We we showed it on the NFL today and so we know all about it. He's been working very hard. This offseason trying to stay in tune to the NFL. What's going on what's working? You know where where where their opportunities like. I said earlier Jimmy. I think for a guy like Mike McCarthy. The giants he'd loved the giants because the giants now are set up. It looks like to be good for the next few few years simply because they got the young quarterback of the future and got and we need someone to we need someone to get. This seem discipline. So if they can get a coach in there whether it be Matt rule or McCarthy or whoever may be if we can get these guys that we have disciplined right boomer Yup and then if it gets straight back in the draft come April to like like maybe seven or eight like those seems like Sandiego need to quarterback I think like you know we can trade back and just like stock up some more picks so we have more assets for the team and maybe get like Chris Harris from from Denver or a cloudy and Shaq Barrett. There's always there's so much money you can spend Jimmy. I mean and you know you may side one big free agent could it be Shaq Barrett and edge rusher but I don't think tank is going to let him go today beyond Clowney. He's been good for Seattle but he also has an injury concern around the knees which is not a good thing And you're talking about a big chunk of change for one of those edge rushers you know. I think here's the thing with the top floor pick. There's going to be a really good player sitting there and it's going to be at a position that they're going to desperately need either offensive line or or linebacker edge rusher. One of those guys is going to be there. And then that's going to be up to Dave gettleman to decide. Do I stay in that top five again and add a top player like like I already have the previous two years with the number two pick in a number six pick or do I trade ad there. Maybe down to seven eight or nine and still get a quality offense of Lineman or an edge rusher or defensive back and pick up a couple extra picks in the second round where maybe I can add to my defensive line. Well I will say a lot of confidence and get on making the picket four because because Saquon and Daniel Johns pretty good you one call that. You'RE GONNA WANNA take a break Bruce Philadelphia. What are you got? Hi thanks for taking my call. I love your show. I listen to a lot of the jets fans griping. I understand why they they've been griping but I look at the schedule and what happened this year in the NFL. And I see two teams that stand out coming from where they were early earlier in the season and peaking towards the end the Philadelphia Eagles and the New York jets. Both teams came through it toward the end of the season. I realized that the jets not GonNa make the playoffs. And that's a big disappointment for jetsons. I get it but you building towards something. There be appreciative of what you have. Bruce Thank you. Breast is not going to be at least. There's there's there's a nice common sense fan for I kind of liked that. I figured it was very nice. Chris Lopresti Thursday starts the new year year. WFAN that sits still question marks on the schedules here posted in the newsroom. Not here we know we. We all know what's he doing. He's often. It is New Year's Eve. I know there's no no no. This is one of those things like when the schedule came out I said Oh I black Monday for sure if you'd be here and then I said boom on Tuesday while the problem is as I was telling as I was telling Ceelo I now I two weeks. I'm going to have to take two days ago. Shoot that greatest super bowl commercials. Shell life all right yeah. It's a tough life but gives you another opportunity back in the seat that's right. Maybe glad. You Ma'am Glen. I asked you about you booked already. I was GONNA say I'm glad I asked Morales. It would have been night before. Hey can you be in for boomer. The next day I I mean what are you doing. Some podcast somewhere. No I had kids and another job but you know you multiple jobs this what I'm telling him but this is why so. I have to take those two. Today's Today's actually next year are these days but has two days that I just worked. Oh so in other words. Normally I would take these days off but I can't take these these two days off right 'cause earlier last year this year. I did this Super Bowl scrapers commercial. You're borrowing days so switching days. What I'm saying? Thanks so but I'd much rather be here black Monday right and also Tuesday because there's still a lot of stuff percolating in the NFL. The leftover from black Monday. Well we'll be here Thursday and Friday going into this wild card weekend with a lot of stuff still happening and I'm sure there'll be other firings by the time we get back here on Thursday and interviews. have us over the weekend. So Yeah Yeah Gio checks out. When he's not off? You think Shurmur was fired chilly. We're no he does check out because I know Spun out a little extreme. We'll know part of anything. Thanks to refresh right. You got on them for that. Well yeah but I but he did respond to something I said yesterday because he and I wanted to do something nice for our new midday we after noon shows whoever they may be wink Waddell. doodle talk we WanNa do something nice for their first days officially on air in those situations Thursday Yep of now. We're assuming why because I don't idea yeah you know you just can't say when mark announces it which is when you go to action. Wednesday announce it. Tomorrow's New Year's Day you do it Thursday then it's fine. I wanted to have it done for Thursday. I keep painted. Yeah maybe I was going to have so you might want to do that. You're not GONNA do that. You're going to get an edible arrangement or something close to get an edible. We're going to Amelia's for me. I was Gonna go across the street Jacques Torres whereas and had two big M. and M.'s or something. Well okay. They make their own chocolate. But you get micro. Chocolate microphones for them or something weird. You don't WanNa get those but I wanted to do something nice say. Hey you don't like twenty twenty. We're getting off to a good start let's go. What did you see Geez tweet from yesterday no so it says someone just texted this to me so yes so? It's actually the one in the kitchens so this is not specific to fan. Nothing to do with it. I don't want anything to do with those refrigerator. The by the way I have to refrigerator yes you do where is he. He's not in the control room right now. Pat Boils sales in the building so he knows all about the refrigerator. Go on on the doors open right now. He might be squatting on your couch as we speak anyway. Okay do you want me to read it. Posted it yeah so this is the this is in the communal refrigerators into we have radio. Stations here yes commissary good so so the note left in the fridge says you stole this for me last Sunday. It's taped to a bottle of like ice tea. Like these naturalized bottles. You stole this for me. Last Sunday may go ahead and steal it again but this ice tea might just be fifty percent urine. So Do you feel lucky. Whole very clear to me? I did not do this. Wasn't the first reply and the tweet You know it's not may okay because I don't even know where this refrigerator is. You've never gone down to the Gaza or have you. Where's the Commissar Commissar by the theater? Yes the why kitchen come on you know the performance studio performances a little kitchen. What is lending machines gene located based kitchen area? It's a great space for somebody with a guitar and that's about it l. in the performance. Do a live podcast. What Auto Arnold? That'd be fun live. Why does it have to be live? We'll bring people into watches through the podcast. Oh Okay I live audience. PODCAST sure boomer would come watch. Oh Yeah Yeah but anyway. That's where the commissaries is touched to that beautiful panoramic view of the House and the ad thing. We have been intendo game station. We Haven Evan Intendo game station yes we had a couple of years so that's where the note was left on the ice tea in the fridge. Might be your what else you got. Brought to Hubei the Raycatena auto group the Lexus December to remember sales event is here. Hurry in for great offers at raking electric. That note didn't come from the jets burner account. Maybe it did. Maybe it did a lot of interesting there on twitter yeah rabbit hole to go down People are basically taking taking the Wyatt. Whatever the twitter handle was it was why it's something which has now been shut down? Okay and somehow they have figured out the email that was attached to that twitter account and then the recovery recovery email address but not all of it just like certain characters but then they show you the asterix you can see how many characters so they're no it didn't a- and this particular person that reached out to me tied it back to someone who works in the jets. Pr Department but again. This is all very specula- speculative I'll tell you who the heck knows that was somebody in the jets PR department. I'd fire them. Well I think the booms I think the assumption there is that gays was having this person do the war in four him a farm armel. Just clean them out of their fire. The guy says we're changing things after we're just settling in you. Want to get rid of him. A raid bomb. All right so I know you guys mentioned the report. McCarthy Mike McCarthy will interview with the giants this weekend so now there's another one added to the mix unless you mentioned this as well in and you brought up the the combination earlier. Ian Rapoport Says Ravens Defensive Coordinator Wink Martindale has been requested by the giants to interview along with this Joe. Brady from mellish you so the giants are going to bring in all the big name candidates here. So you got McCarthy you've got that Combo you got mcdaniels you'd be enemy. You Got Chris Rashard and obviously you've got matt rule. He is prepping for tomorrow night. sugarbowl against Georgia Upfront. With his team about the rumors that are starting to source guys. If someone offers me twelve million dollars coach in which I do and it's like oh but that doesn't mean I'm doing something like people. Use The word interview in such a stupid way. I was rule on Fox sports radio in central Texas. Lot of likes for him. Like like this. You know the speaker Gary who that isn't that. CBS They had them at the Christmas party. I for CBS this year. CBS Sports. You have no idea anybody know if anybody's out there you know what I'm talking about. It sounds like there you go. We can look forward to that. and He's press conferences. I don't know I don't listen to spend no you listen to speaker. Yes he helps you speak yes. He's he's a motivational relationship. But it's more than that because it's like It's like finance advice and business advice and it'd be commands anybody in there guys. Come on Brian. What's that tell you? These guys have checked. I mean this is a big checked out. I can tell you that right now. Chris can Jerry in the morning. It's either the heavy metal death. Screw you know. Life sucks so it'll be get. It makes the motivational speaker. Even out one more from rule he added that he won't be rushing anywhere to interview getting on a plane the day after the game and I'm flying to Mexico with my my wife and kids. They're coming to. It's not like I'm like going back to Waco and meeting people like if I wanted to go do something else. I'd be like meetings eating so I'm going to be on the beach or at a Pool Alba with my wife and kids like just don't believe he's living. The Life at how many likes likes did a lot of lakes that were probably six or seven if not more so fleets tells me my ear. Schefter just tweeted. That rule has turned down the browns request so he wants no part of Baker Mayfield and and the situation in Cleveland Kabo yes he is turning down. NFL Head coaching. Because he's he likes that. Yeah great spot flon down there right thirty two jobs and but if your super successful in college you are the king of the campus. You make plenty of money that you will never are ever spend your your family's happy I would think it would take a special job like coming home to New York. Perhaps yes and that you wouldn't just jump at any of the one of thirty two. Don't want to you. You could look at look at it that way or you could also say men. This guy's GonNa be a pain in the ASS. You GotTa look at it that way even the for us not for us. I mean for the people he's working for he's going to be demanding he's GonNa want. I'm like I'm just there's A. There's a thing I would I would just say if an NFL. Coaching position is being offered to you for an interview. You gotta take it like. I'm thinking of all the other our guys out there that have been trying to get interviews and can't get interviews and now this guy is turning down interview with the browns. I'd say thanks ballsy. Or maybe he looks at the other candidates they're bringing in and figures out. I'm not I'm not a favorite there so let me focus my attention elsewhere. It'd be that way but you could. I don't know by the way Reporting on the beach. And I'm doing this on the beach like I'm going to be on the beach like this. Look you'll be able to reach like Mike Silver says the Ron Rivera deal is done with the redskins. Five years I for him in Washington and they're expected to either announce that or introduce him tomorrow couple more quickly from yesterday's giants pressure. Obviously Pat Shurmur out Dave gettleman remains. He's John Mara explained that it'd be a mistake to pull the plug on that after two years particularly when you consider that they've spent a good part of the first year fighting for his. What is a fair point Among marriage remarks at the podium letting everyone know about the advancements they've made in the front office to keep up with the times scouting turnover. You get a new grading system for college players deeper into adults than ever before plus this completely reorganized areas in our football operations. We've added a staff psychologist on a full-time basis so so basically just letting everyone all the prospective candidates know that they're not a dinosaur organization along and enjoy checked in Gary views. The man Okay Rosenberg Paul Rosenberg. Who who's going to produce midday show today? Says he knows all about fan. Okay apparently says he wants to buy the jets. All right see I would have thought you would have. I would've thought you agreed. I'm not into motivational speakers motivates motivational. There's more business than even more. So than which is to your point your alley. He basically you are for the way you're going about things. Oh Connecticut Steve Tisch present yesterday. Rumblings that he and Mara weren't necessarily on the same page as far as Sherman Shurmur and get them and go but her professional ones and domestic ones. But I feel we have a very good one and we always with some difference of Italians expressed and communicated we get to the same point something something this morning and I guess it's true. This is the only team in the NFL. That's got a split ownership. No other team has more than one When they say split ownership fifth visit every other team has a general partner at least and that partner like mark? Davis is in control of the team are there are a lot of investors right. The guy that's runs the team interesting. Tisch said. You can look for him to be more active in the very near future. AM involved. I would like to be more involved. I will become more evolved so going forward You don't twenty twenty after tomorrow a change a- As something he is telling you that I wanna be more involved now. Why would he want to be more because he's annoyed? With what the Hell's going. Yeah so he's not happy with the decisions that do you think. That's that's what I kind. I don't know Mr Tisch. Yes can they coexist now. They they have. They've just family. Is Their family family. Is it just one side has been in football all their life and the other side has been in Hollywood there right and real estate without data to my question I mean now all of a sudden he wants to be more involved in it was going to go to. The senior bowl is going to go scout guys and never forget when Dan Marino's said he was going to go take the player personnel job for the dolphins as Dan. You you'RE GONNA go to Mobile Alabama and Look Adam underwear and decide whether or not they have what it takes to be. NFL players. Yeah so he took the job and I'll never forget we did the work. We did the Super Bowl in Houston that year and so he takes the job and I said how you doing. How's mobile and he goes? It's raining it's overcast and I'm looking at guys in their underwear socks the Iro back and next thing you know he was back with the NFL. Today I mean it's not you gotta like Kit hit. Just do it from outside. You've got to be in on everything grinder you and you have to it and it is a grind and you have to love it. That's why guys like cattleman have lasted as long. Ah That's why guys like Joe. Douglas now are growing up into this business and job Joe. Douglas has been tutored by some of the best. GM's ever in the history. This League Ozzie. newsome being one of them and how he rose when being another So you hope that that all of that stuff is rubbed off on him. And he's going to bring that to the jets. That's it's what Christopher Johnson soap and for this with jet Fan should be open for and that's why they got him gaze was saying look. I don't have anything to do with personnel. That's the general manager's job and so we'll hear from him today as well yes and cattleman. Who apparently hasn't spoken since the second day of training camp five that runs about right? Yeah couple more from Bruce Arians quick hitters here on Jameis Winston who ended the the season with a pick six on Sunday against the Falcons and over time they lose that game his thirtieth interception of the season so this was from Sunday asked about that place specifically the from early from the last one sure looked like it was covered. That's kind of problem in general on just having to maybe they were trying to finish the season. Above five hundred they won they would have been nine and seven so A tough pill to swallow ended that way in particular to lose to lose the weight lost. Oh it smells. His basic possibly smell smell that way for a long time and then areas on Winston looking ahead to next season and will they they bring him back to his evaluation. There's so much good when you look at it so much good. And they're so much outright terrible to also it. Is it good enough. Do you think wait and see so a little different tune than it had been signed a few weeks prior true but he also knows that James is talking. What about like thirty million a year? Yeah that's a big part of the don't you do over five thousand years. I always say to you I get the whole market thing. Shouldn't thirty thirty five million dollars a year go to the top four or five guys. That's if just because you play the position and you happened to be in that spot you don't you don't deserve fit. Well teams have to spend a certain amount of money. There has to be a minimum amount. Spend four years and they all know every team. Every team knows out there that the that the League is driven the quarterback and that's what's going to sell season tickets and marketing and all that other serving right into the ground or driven right into the ground by the quarterback but that's why be as saying what he's saying about James Because James is they probably have already had some discussions. Sure and Jameson agents thinking you know we're going to be about thirty five million a year later mid or nice. Let me ask you blind question. No names no city no nothing. I have a quarterback. He threw three interceptions this year. I'm not valued in dollar. I don't think anybody else in the. NFL WOULD WANNA pay Jameis Winston any any amount even close to that. That's why I think he stays in. Ah Tampa maybe on a short term contract a two year deal bridge deal at worst franchise them can't they let him go to the market and then say yeah. Yeah you didn't get what you're looking for and then yeah teams stupid right. We'll see we've seen time and time again. I think if I were James Again I don't know the internal politics or whatever else is going going on there. I would want to stay there chair. There's also remember a lot of pressure on them. Probably guys like Shaq Barrett. They'RE GONNA WANNA sign some other guys that are having great years as as well and they do have great wide receiver. They have a good defense. Jason Pierre Paul came on late in the year. Good head coach and a good head. Coach quarterback question. You have to answer ask yourself. Do I make a trade for Andy Dalton and pay him sixteen million. Oh yeah but I like that better than James for thirty yeah. I don't think I don't think he's getting thirty. So Andy Dalton has one year left at sixteen point two million he does nothing. Sorry I know that but I do like them and I do respect him. I do believe he needs breath of fresh air clearly and I think that he's going to be a guy next year. That is going to try to do what Ryan Tannehill doing this year and the final year of a deal. Yeah exactly so and you put them on a good team and if he doesn't turn the ball over thirty dollars because Andy's not an interception I mean he you know occasionally he does but you know put them out there with those wide receivers right and you have be calling play their point. That actually could be a great mix down there and that also could get James the hell out of their nets lost the Minnesota soda beaten by the timber. Wolves one twenty to one fifteen God three straight losses four out of five for Brooklyn College hoops Seton Hall and Rutgers With Victories Hockey wise devils host. The bruins that's a one. PM game by the Way Devil's hockey network on radio. North Carolina down to the wire last. That's three points. Yes that's that's a good point. Yeah James Jones up there in new haven islanders capitals Rangers visit the oilers starter. three-game western Canadian swing for the blue shirts brings us to is the test of going out to western Canada's makes them hey okay moment of the day brought to you by Resorts World Casino in Queens with over sixty five hundred games this is how NYC roles. I mean we have on. We're GONNA play we'll see It is of course. It is New Year's Eve. Two Thousand Nineteen coming to an end. Might we see a new jerry. RECCO NEW IMPROVED JERRY. RECCO and twenty twenty perhaps not seven durant was first known for having a yes famous. Burn the sixers executive right right Columbus Colangelo. Yeah terrible is far as Jamal. Adams goes you had the trade speculation all these accounts honestly Ben Taylor's now garbage the worst happy holiday we have been new year. Different the twenty twenty any jerry. Very comfortable the way I am. Oh yeah he's he's not gonNA okay. He's good happy New Year. Boys see on the other side enjoy. Thanks nine forty eight on the fan and CBS sports. That work on the other side. We're going to get boomers. Greatest moments from two thousand nine hundred ninety rep or New Year's Eve get twenty squatty twenty. Geo Show what you got well. I love angry. Jerry cuts they're the best. Where's his Oh?

giants NFL Pat Shurmur boomer Jerry jets football John Mara Dave gettleman Eli Manning WanNa Dave Daniel Jones Mike McCarthy Pittsburgh steelers Saquon Barkley New York Steve Tisch Josh mcdaniels Patriots hockey
S8E1: Winterfell | Game of Thrones

Binge Mode

2:03:40 hr | 1 year ago

S8E1: Winterfell | Game of Thrones

"Pink Inge mode is presented by bud line. Bud Light is all about bringing friends together. And we're wondering which unlikely pairs will team up this season. Seeing so many old friends and new friends come together. For example, this past episode, we saw cry and the woman in need of his medical ministrations who is tending to Bron. And I think that they would love to have a Bud Light together to discuss the medical issues that she has enjoy responsibly Twenty-one and up. Today's bridge road is brought to you by the all new BMW three series. Don't be driven by technology drive in the all new BMW three series is available with all the latest BMW innovations. But what you'll love about this vehicle? Can't be listener explained. In words. It has to be felt on the road. You think that Ray gall drove on can handle those turns we till you try BMW, so hurry. It's your local BMW center today and test drive the all new via. Mm w three series for yourself. The all new BMW three series. Don't be driven by technology drive. It BMW ultimate driving sheep. For the interruption. But the Queen detachments hurry, did she ask you to warn us. The binge mode contains adult content, you have get lonely. I am Pasha Toyota, gentlemen. Pardon? It's dealt content. Take within the end. Which go the queen's brothers made promises to you and broke a grace wants to rectify mistake. She was told me that Benjamin contain spoilers that was is doing not hers. Wren cream says he wants something she pays an advanced sending goals. So here's your payment binge mode. House into king. But you. You've always been. Gave up my crumbs. Anaemia not king north anymore. I'm not talking about the kingdom and all from talking about the king of the seven kingdoms. Yeah. To binge around Browns. Proudly part of the ringer podcast network. A Rubin executive editor of the ringer dot com. That's a great website guys. Oh, it's so good. Joining me today. Now that he's finish informing producer Isaac that he burnt his father and brother loops. It's ringer senior creative in your Maistre. Jason concepcion. Mel I offered to let them retain their lands and titles. If they've been the knee and told them they were welcome to listen to Benjamin game of thrones. Whether or not you wrote the dragon with us during our original sixty seven episode run. We're thrilled that you're here now, and we hope that you subscribe to this podcast on apple podcast Issur Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Please rate in views seven pointed star for reading five stars for Benjamin reviews. Please go ahead and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at bid underscore mode, aka the underscore and join our Facebook group, which is just for Benjamin fans, which is an excellent place to post your most recent brain stark me and please head over to the ring dot com slash shop to check out our brand new binge mode merch including not even a Maistre protect go said nights of summer. Teas. Bench logo. Dad, hats end a new crew neck sweatshirt ideal for pillow talk with your on last time. I'm binge above. We completed our season eight preview series and today, we're diving deep d- down into the season eight premiere after he listened to this be sure to check out all the other thrones offerings on various ringer platforms, including top the thrones with us and Chris Ryan alive on Twitter right after each game of thrones episode on Sunday nights. Ask the Maistre. Jason's column and ask them Easter live on Tuesdays. Hi zack. Ramen rally Makati's game of thrones pre-cap Ables preview pot every Friday and much more. As always speculation and spoiler warning. We will be going Deepa tells from the show in the books alike from this episode and the season and all the came before it. So keep your flaming swords handy. In case you need to incinerate any little lords. Because it's time to break down the last season premiere in game of thrones history season eight episode one winter, Phil. Now, we don't have time for all this. When I king has your plot points is marching on your podcast now. So let's offer up a brief refresher on what actually happened in the season. Eight premiere by taking a quick trip down our very own kings road in winter down and went to fell the grand targeting. Army? Dragon soaring overhead arrives at winter fell though northerners give them a frosty. Welcome and sonza. Grudgingly gives Danny's run of the castle. Brand breaks the wintry festivities by announcing that the will has fallen the debt is on the March the night. King has dragon John and signs a say, they'll make a standard winter fell and young Nigam back asked for more wagons or wagon transporters people from last hearth asking for wagons. Is the new promising your kids you'll be there for them later in the end, we need more wagons. Milady I'm allowed McLean. We Anamour crushingly confronts. John about bending the needed to Narus and her words clearly strike nerve. With the assemble lords of the north end the veil John says he did so in order to gain allies both in the bedroom. And on the battlefield alot. He doesn't say that. And better defend the north and Tyrians proclamation that Lancaster army four essentially the first time in history will be marching north to lend aid does not help John's case Tyrian subsequently needs Sohn's on a walkway above the art and she dunks on him for trusting the word of his sister, Susie ladder, and in the gods would by the heart tree aria beautifully reunites with John they talk about sonza Danny not getting along and aria back San's for looking out for the family down in king's landing assoc- learns of the debt of broken through the wall, you're UN's fleet carrying the golden company sales in sure she greets Harry Strickland. The leader of the seltzer group in the throne room. She's disappointed by the pointed lack of elephants. She's. Irate? She is passed. I gotta say never broke a contract. Are you sure because I signed one that said elephants? So. I was promised. Ample Lord of the rings comes you're on. Shit and earns an invite to search his chambers where they take a journey down the kings road to pound town. I was grasping for a crack in euphemism. But that'll do nicely. He announces his intention to put a prince, and sir sees belly in LeBron's will Braun is getting down with three ladies of the evening. When drops he gives broader wagon full of gold and a job murder. Tyrian Jamie with the very same crossbow Tyrian killed Taiwan with my no for Brown hair is a little more effort with what the sex. Why? This is not a relationship. This is like I'm here to relax spa day for. Just off the shore theon the small group of iron born board your ship and very easily for your of the. So easy. They just had to get by a few members of the cast of always, sunny and writer, Dave hill. And that was it that was all talk on the open sea. They agreed to separate Yara heading home to the iron islands theon. Heading to winter fell at winter fell Davos proposes deteriorated various The Danny and John Mary to unite. The kingdom what a wild idea. I love that. It's like we're too young single people with immense power that are like really attractive. How can we solve these problems of political? And so, but what can we do? I wonder what we should do. I like how the one guy who definitely has forgotten about his own marriage is the only one thinking about somebody else believable. But then as more immediate concerns as she gets after all she's getting the the milk for free. The old is the old saying goes as she gets word that her dragons aren't eating she and John go to see them. They mount up Danny on drogue on on radio and gopher joyride Ganji still waiting to mount up. Well, more on that later is forging dragon glass into weaponry, he crafts an axe for the hound and then aria shows up, and she it again injury pretty seriously for it. Wonderful flirting both having game for both not having any experience at all. I mean, Arianna is is owning it. Any other rich gas? He don't know that you haven't been around for years. Yeah. You're right. But I'm saying you're making a guest now. She tasks him with giving her. Giving her a sphere folks custom spear Danny ensure visit salmon the library roared him for saving jura's life. She discovers shock his last name is Charlie. She tells them the tough news that. Acute it your father and brother by Dragonfly. Sam despondent finds John in the crypts at which point he reveals to John the truth of his parentage here. It is the moment that so many of us have been waiting for by rights. Sam says John is the true king of west rose. And Sam has some thoughts about how to proceed those thoughts. Awesome white trees. The you know observation that maybe daddy. Up at last hearth Barrick and torment having fled east watch where they did nothing to check the advance of the night. King arrive at the feet of number where there is clearly benefit. All the numbers are gone. They run into Ed in the nightwatchman from castle black and they find poor it nailed to a wall in a spiral of body parts. A message from the night king. He turns into a white and they burn him tiny shrieking little bells for my dude. Netumbo? May you find the wagons? In life after life. And then back at winter fell. We are treated Hello to the best looking person in the history of the world. Wow. Fair to say Giora slinging off this again. Qand at yet, another rejection his life, never as the one person. Stanford Laura of all these years, finally. Revolt Qabli places him no in the friend zone from which he will never welcome, Jamie. Mallory Reuben's heart. I wanna be clear Giora looked great in this episode. But Santa best looking person in the world level great. He has that real capacity to look beautiful, while processing the fact that the Queen. He loves has massacred the family of the man who saved him, and he looked great do it. If folks he looked great. But he can't hear you because he's already slunk away while he's away. And again, he's welcome back. Anytime I have a tune for him because. Doing Doon Doon Doon Doon Doon Doon Doon. Jamie arrives on horseback. Hooded then reveals himself in his new salt and pepper beard. Great and locks eyes with Bradstock who you might. Remember? He pushed out of a dour window after brand saw him go in two parent. Jason. Yeah. Respect is how the young keep podcasts at a distance. So we don't remind them of an unpleasant truth, nothing less and that gives us this episode is big idea. So let's cut right to the core of it by sticking with the point yet defining theme of this episode is family ties. Let's start with John. And all that starting with John tales John Starks. John Danny and the dragons, and crucially, John and Sam, and of course, along awaited reveal to John of the truth of his parentage. John's parentage has been the beating heart of the story since the beginning, the propulsed mystery at the center of a story built on thematic pillars such as identity and destiny verse choice in legacy and consequences in the family, you choose and here at last after sixty seven episodes, and of course, years in John's life before the story began of him not knowing John discovers in this episode who he is and in the process he and the viewer forced to confront a defining question. Are we what someone else says we are or what we choose to be? And of course, Jon is such a marvel the character because he's always had to confront that question in some fashion even before. Learning that he's Leon on rig our son that he's gone Tarin sixth of his name right flared to the iron throne John group believing that he was a bastard who didn't belong. Never forget what you are tearing told John and the pilot the rest of the world will not where like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you that message is central to this tale, the cripples bastards and broken things ethos that unites the characters that we refer the most. It's also really hard advice to follow because it requires an inner strength that doesn't come easily to most John's insecurities and feelings of inadequacy were harder to scale for him than the wall. Those didn't leave him when he became Lord commander king in the north were the general for the living in the war against the dead is confidence bloomed, but his doubts always remained. And that makes him human makes him just like any of us. And when Sam speaks the truth allowed it lasts that all comes to the fore for John again before John finds himself in the crypts with Sam, though, he's part of the Royal procession arriving at winner, fil encapsulating so much. About the journey. He and the show and we as years have taken much of the season, eight debut mirror. The series first episode in John and Danny's winter fell rival is at once a mirror of the beginning with these characters on a reminder of how much has changed we glimpse the horde from the perspective of will winter town boy frantically trying to get a look he's a proxy for both. Brandon aria from pilot is Robert arrived aria running around trying to get a glimpse of these fabled people this stark soldier helmet flopping around on her head so precious the king slayer, the brand climbing is high as he could to spot the incoming throng. This isn't just a callback. It's also reminder that there are other people in this world beyond the characters in our story. And that for them these are historic times that are living through back in season. Three is the Blackfish in cat looked out from river runs windows. Brennan said it often covers me to think that even in wars darker stays in most places in the world. Absolutely. Nothing's happening. Something has certainly happening now. But that line and this young child's perspective reminds that while we've been on that wheel spinning alongside those who seek to maintain it and break it alike. Everything that's happening impacts of people who aren't even on the wagon. Let alone the wheel the winter town boys zips right by our who just like in the pilot is out among the people rather than aligned in the winter fil courtyard greeting party, we even get a wears line from John when he reaches the courtyard marrying cats inquiry from the pilot as the wintertime, boy passes her here, it cements just how much time has passed and just how much are characters. Roles have changed as of course, does what they're all looking at when Robert arrived in the pilot John wasn't even in the front row of the greeting party nor later at the main table for the feast now he's one of two primary figures in the Royal Kavak late Kingwell king who knelt but back to that in a minute next to his Queen man at the head of two armies riding under to dragons. It is an incredible representation of how. Much John's standing has changed. And that's before he or almost anyone else in the room learns that he's the air to the throne, and we shouldn't lose sight of that John's last name is in what's going to make him king. He did that himself on his own with his actions and his character that also on made him as king now, Danny and John or riding in resplendent in their furs, and they look regal look, right? This is the station with her mentor pie in Danny certainly believes that. Yup. Though, she didn't when she was growing up under the Saracens, cruel ignorant. Thumb and John never believed it and even wants others elevated him to positions of power he felt unworthy of that in a way, but the cloak fits them as have his crown and when aria first season her face is difficult to read there's a smile and a quick flash joy enduring, but John doesn't see her doesn't turn and her face shifts quickly to something that's harder to read is. Shame for caring. Maybe though unlikely. On their ensuing exchange is it worry over finding John in this new elements so focused on Danny Blind to the family literally standing at his side's, perhaps these reaction shots. These expressions are ever present. In this episode, always complex intertwined histories and futures playing out one glance at a time. John's first line of the episode is to Danny I wash you know that no much trust outside. It's a nice primer for the reveal to come in another illustration of John's issuing a decree without realizing that he's speaking about himself. He's of the north and four the north. Yes, he can choose north. Yes. But once the truth trickles out into the run at large. He will have to contend with the lords of the north and the Vale viewing him this way. However unfairly tarred, Gary and cannot be trusted ROY said to John and season seven he speaking of Danny then in that distrust saturates every encounter of Danny in this episode, but we have to keep in mind in light of who John's parents really are the north and the Vale. Road toward Robert's rebellion to remove Danny's father mad king from power they road because Aries brutalized Ricard and Brandon stark knits father and brother, they were because they believe that radar kidnapped and raped the on a stark, and though they'll learn soon that that wasn't true. It doesn't change the fact that they think it now and that thinking is clouded their view of the target areas. For decades when Danny's dragons screech overhead we can hear winter town resident shout be the gods. Protect us across the world. Danny's symbolized hope to many, but here she brings fear as much as hope aria looks delighted when she sees the dragons nice reminder that while she is full of northern pride. And she is remember her words when she killed the phrase, leave one wolf older because they believe that radar kidnapped and raped the on a stark, and though they'll learn soon that that wasn't true. It doesn't change the fact that they think it now and that thinking is clouded their view of the target areas. For decades when Danny's Reagan's screech overhead we can hear Winterton resident shout the gods. Protect us across the world. Danny's? Realized hope to many. But here she brings fear as much as hope aria looks delighted when she sees the dragons nice reminder that while she is full of northern pride. And she is remember her words when she killed the phrase, leave one wolf alive in the sheep or never safe. She's not biased against the tar garrisons as so many northerners are in season two during one of her many rich exchanges with Taiwan inherent hall. She spoke with all about Ramey, savannah, Egon, sister, wives, N, fellow dragon riders. She's a heroine of yours. I take it. Taiwan Astor after she praised for cinema as a great warrior. She was and she is aria is not going to abandon John when she learns who is. But as we see slightly later in this episode when they're reunited at last. She is going to play a crucial role in reminding him of what family meets her open mindedness about the target areas and her unmatched affection for John maker, really uniquely positioned to help him navigate all that. He's learned here though. She doesn't know what we know that the truth of who John is is screeching and soaring overhead flying into the north into the place where he grew up. The dragons arrival at winter fell is the halves of John's identity converging on each other. Just as so many of our characters are converging on this one place as the procession reaches the winner fell courtyard just as Roberts. Did we get more mirror images and more snapshots of change? There's a Lancaster in the carriage. Again, this time it's Tyrian. Not, sir. See signs is the lady of winter Phil now, not just some kids shushing her late arriving sister brand is there as well. Not flexing his muscles for Robert but waiting jaundice mountain and runs to him. His motion is palpably kisses brand on the head just as they did when they last parted in the second episode of season one when brain was still in a coma. John hurt from Sam that Brandon gone beyond the wall. But that was his last update before hearing by ravens growing season seven that brand was alive and home. Now seeing the baby brother he long thought dead. John is nearly brought to tears look at you. He exclaims your. Man almost brand says and John not understanding that brands referring to being the three eyed raven to not really being brand or even really being a human being anymore. Looks at him with sincere confusion and me Mabille. Another theme of the episode Johnson's a embrace really warmly though sounds issued ING death beams at Danny with her is the entire time and John introduces on Sundance, and it is just as fraught as all the promotional materials every shred of logic and character assessment that we've you're is possessed indicated that it would be John is reduces Santa's assist or which is perfectly sensible. But also really sweet it's word that unites them as kin ahead of John's Morphing sense of self, and he also introduces her also unsurprisingly as the lady of wonderful, and we can see right away here. The John does not intend to press his claim or fight to regain rule as king. Even after bending the knee. He gave winter fall Tucson's when he left, and he's going to let her keep it this subtle reminder here primes for how he's gonna respond to learning with the iron throne be his if you wanted it if you just reach out to take it the any issues some very canned prepared remarks as she delivered them with the appropriate sincerity. Sure, she's. She's. Signs channeling dead's words to Robert from season. One chokes out winter fellas years your grace. It's always none of a warmth that Ned had for his old friend back in the day. She looks all around the yard before saying. Just like no one's going to shoot. Her. No one's gonna take out. Where's that crossbow bolt? Giora warned about leader when signs of notes how inadequately provisioned the north is to feed all of these soldiers and dragons and asked what trangens even eat Danny says with some hallmark Zion. I whatever they want it's brash. It's amusing. But it's also a little scary. Danny is not going to beg to be loved. She's going to demand to be heard inside the hall. John tells Mr. Wilkins recall all nightwatchman to winner fell. This will be where the realm makes it stand. This also perhaps introduces another loophole for voiding having to reckon with the seeming lack of interest in how're y John left the night's watch. If the night's watch, basically doesn't exist. No one needs to ask John about it. We however remain convinced that the truth of his resurrection must surface at some point given that positions. John is either god-like figure to follow in worship or a man. Being to fear in his casual mentioned later in this episode of John surviving knife to the heart on the heels of barracks. Comments about John's resurrection season seven indicate that word maybe making its way around but forget being a God. For now. Johnny Stephen King as Liana more mind is happy to remind him with John Danny San's, a Brian and Tyrian quite a crew at the head table Liana p backs of Wilkins your grace by saying, but you're not are you left wing to fill king came back. I'm not even sure what you are now. Lord, nothing at all. He's like a nice guy. He's like he's like a guy all Jays. Like our good guy. He won the battle of vaster d-. Yeah. That's it. What would he like he looks is just a guy was in? He's just a dude. Great hair. Sure you've seen source. I mean, like, he's probably like Lord of the wild links. They'd call him if they wanted to be like Dicks about it. They'd be like, oh Lord of the fucking Wild Wings. Yeah. Tormented would give him some sort of tiny crow. Pecker king pecker king. John, of course, is not the first king in the north Neil torn stark became the king who knelt when he'd been the need to Egon and his dragons, but John's people aren't interested in warden ship in unity with the southern or some might say four and ruler. They want to be as rob put it a free and independent kingdom Liana and many others, including signs, of course, tried to stop John from heading south to meet with Danny in the first place. They warned him to heed what happened to Ricard Ned, and rob other northern rulers and leaders of house stark went south and died. John did not lose his head. But in this woman, we see that he really might have lost the thing that he cares. Most about the north until now, and so she tried to stop him from going Liana had been his biggest cheerleader. She's the one who sent the bear island knows no king. But the king of the north whose name is Sark note to stand us when he's recruiting Bannerman. She's the one who pledged arms to John and saunas clause. She's the one who after the battle of the bastards shamed. The other lords refused. The call she. The one who I called John her king despite him being a bastard to everyone. I don't care if he's a bastard Ned Stark's blood in his veins, essentially, John was legitimized by Liana Moremon for real though that happened totally. And now she's saying in front of all the assembled who it should be noted heartily agree with her that John that away from her and himself and the north that he failed to do the one thing she'd always honored most. And that he and sounds asked everyone to do stand behind the Starks now is Joan Susan response. That's not totally fair. True, refusing stanzas offer of legitimization back in season. Five was one of the hardest choices that John ever had make and being named king in the north as he says to Leon everyone else. Here was quote the honor of my life. John always wanted to be a stark always wanted north to embrace him as he had embraced it. But he truly believes the titles. Leadership power and politics Madhur less than staying alive. I had a choice. He says keep my crown or protect north. I chose the north the north despite the divisions at squabbles within it is a family. It's home to a different way of life. That other parts of west rose John's followers are accusing him of forgetting about that. And remember this is four they know who he really is. But he's doing it all for them. He's also doing it to live up to a vision of leadership that Ned passed down to him in his inescapable presence throughout this episode and indeed John's entire arc. John goes to visit the gods would a place we associate strongly with Ned and our earliest moments in this world, a place as well that we associate fully with being of the north Jon said, the watch watchwords in front of a heart tree. This place has meaning to him and to his family and always will no matter what his birth name is even their gods are wrong. Remember, John said, the we'll swap. What are they now of the womb? Even the wrong. Miss him. I know have great guy son, not so much. Tough pete. I grandson of this episode. Very very tougher has basically done Zo it like. Yeah. I mean when the great John said, your meat is bloodied. Tough. I don't know if he meant these severed limbs adorning the wall. Yeah. And very tough stuff or how somber are you finds him there and surprised him saying before he sends us her used to be taller? And again kit Harrington speak to your agent about getting dunked on like this constantly Bishop it lay you'd think they'd be like, all right. We have to limit it to like three short jokes a season episode. We. It's crazy. Really from aurea. The are your five even scum. The fuck down. Recall. How Robert greeted Ned you got fat. Their friendship was tested. But it was also for many years key part of the foundation of the realm, and ultimately proved stronger than any fears or threats are in John may be tested. But they'll surely stay true to each other in the books. They're the only two who looked like Ned while the other children all have Tully coloring that red hair, but in both book and show their best friends the closest of any of the children the bonded over what so many in the story in so many real life did feeling like outsiders. Sometimes the best way to not feel alone is to find someone else who does and give the gift of companionship to one another here, they banter a bit. There's a brief pause before they run into other's arms are jumping up. It's a mirror image of their farewell hug in season. One episode two when John gifted are in needle the sword that would help her forge so much of her identity. It's a wonderful moment, featuring smiles and tears like in the kind of unmistakably sincere affection that speaks to a true family bond. Didn't matter the John was a bastard and won't matter that he's gone tar Gary into aria. He's. Other sent to John she's his little sister. They want to protect each other now in each other's arms. They're able to unleash some of the purest truest emotion that their recent lives of allowed them to express not about emission. But about their humanity right on cue John mentions the sword you still have he says needle she replies. Have you ever used it? He asks once or twice she says. And this is quietly one of Saturn moments in the episode because in the most special relationships, whether it's a family relationship or friendship, you can pick up right where you left off. No matter how much time has passed. And while they are doing that in a way this exchanges. Reminder for both of them have how much of each other's lives. They've missed how much has happened to both though that the other wasn't there for couldn't be there for our you used that sort to protect yourself in a venture family, but also unleash Harz having needle with her meant in a way that she always had John and her family with her. It was the one. One thing that she couldn't get rid of him Bravo's, the one part of being aria stark that she couldn't leave behind in. It always showed from the first moment that he gave it her. The John understood who she really was and never wanted to try to convince her to be someone else. She never needed to say. That's not me, John. But hearing this. He knows intuitively that using needle means needing to use needle, which means facing something awful signs that whole John last season that he couldn't protect her to not try an aria doesn't need anyone to protect her. John wants to wants to protect them all that hug. This conversation is like stitching time itself together covering the distance of space that seem impassable, but that can't break their bond, which is what makes the ensuing exchange. So surprising, an old smelly rewarding John area where she was earlier saying that he could've used her helpless on aria who always love John best and butted heads with signs a most and who has recently as seizes seven was threatening to murder sons in cool. Those are my faces and here aria stands by sons aside. I love this. She doesn't like your Queen does she she asked. John sounds a thing she's smarter than everyone. John says and aria reply, she's smartest person I've ever met. And this is a fascinating dynamic in a really bold choice on the shore unders part, or it's not opposing John, but still having her advocate for sonza reinforces the need for John to comeback into the stark fold fully. And to think about how his choices impact the thing that he says he's fighting for most of all the north and life now, you're defending her John chuckles, you I'm defending our family aria says so is she and John replies that he's family to and as aria hugs him. She says don't forget that. They don't wanna push John away. They want to keep them close. But they want him to want that this is a key change ahead of the parenthood reveal not only reminder for us. John is a stark and always the. Count. But reminding him that this is his family and the name and blood don't matter as much as what's in your heart and your mind as he told theon in season seven, you don't have to choose John is a target area. And yes, but he's also a stark, this is his home. And this is his family is just that. He's welcoming some new members to his family too, much more on the history and mythology and ramifications of dragon writing later in today's episode, but in terms of processing the truth of his parentage. There's no greater assist. The one John got in this episode riding Ray gall dragon named for his father radar before John mounts up though, he and Danny Sharon alarming exchange on the grounds. When Danny broaches saunas clear dislike of her. She doesn't need to be my friend Danny says, but I am her Queen. If she can't respect me, Dun, Dun, Dun, the threat is left unsaid amid an interruption about how the dragons are on the eating eighteen goats eleven she barely even a bite. Sounds like a long on this is that. Eighteen goats gun. You get scared. I see ribs. Eighteen goats sheep when he sick. Exactly like my dad up. You come back later. I'll I'll leave it out. Okay. John can tell himself. It is fairly that daddy will be a good Queen. And that she's kind of just, but if she starts threatening his family, he will need to grapple with that reality. John isn't at all surprised by the reaction days getting in the north. He knows north, but the truth is he doesn't really know her. And he should be alarmed by what he's seeing here. It's hard to be alarmed when you're soaring through the air on a dragon and fucking down. Just Dicken down the Queen in front of a water feature though in minutes later, John walks with Danny to visit the dragons in their collection of burnt bones. Ragle peeks around John mush like drug on gave John the sniff seal of approval on dragonstar last season. Then Danny completely unconcerned by this uninterested in any way. And the fact that her dragon is like, yeah. I liked this guy. Cool. Tells John Reid. The dragon not in the way that they did on the boat. When they absolutely made it slap hours upon hours as Tyrian lurked outside. This is really a moment. We've been waiting a long time for yes. John riding a dragon and season eight in conjunction with him learning who he really is has been one most popular fan theories for some time. We were certain I mean, literally just had to happen miss. It had up Danny's contribution. However is she tells John to climb on as though she has no reason to doubt, whether this would work despite her not knowing that he has will Larry blood, and again, I will speak more or less than the citadel after an amusing. What if he doesn't want me to an early graceless climb aboard John grabs hold and Ray all takes flight clearly delighted to have a writer at last sweet little ragle kit kit Harrington, we should say almost two separated. One of his testicles during most filling of the saints. Lost a ball spoke, bravely, hint openly, bull gut coat. Like in the saddle or something. Anyway, later when John here's who he is. We can assume this experience is there at his mind, reinforcing the truth Johnson, just ride a dragon. He controlled one is one of two human beings in the world. Who have ridden? A dragon. Pretty big signifier there. Johnny. There's a subtle, but notable moment when John Ray gall veer off to the left at the end of the ride go to land, and Danny is like, oh, wait she has that moment of like. Oh, wait, where are they going? Yeah. As we learned in the game revealed special that posted after the episode of place where John used to hunt as a kid this apparently like five hundred miles away from the castle out for that. They've fly. And you can see the look of surprise on Danny's faces it's happening. She sees the John is not hanging on for dear life, but steering. Yup. That Fisher also included a line of dialogue after they dismount. That isn't featured in the final episode. He'll most seemed like he knew where I wanted to go. Danny is given ragle a writer and given John a dragon by accident. Wild one. If they remain United. This is a source of great strength and a great gift for their alliance. If a rift develops Danny is just diminished her strength by fifty percent. And handed the most powerful weapon in the known world to a man, she doesn't yet know bears the name tar Gary in a man, she doesn't yet realize could be a rival for the throne. In the meantime, though, all's well except for drogue on sniffing is disapproval as mom gets down by waterfall. Again, anyone who has pets is used to this behavior from drug you just get over it and get on with it. The cat of the dog giving looking they're actually board. Honestly. So just get on with it. Seen it all four, man. And now a quick break for word from our sponsor. These up sort of binge mode sprouts you buy to kill a Mockingbird Academy Award winning screenwriter and playwright Aaron Sorkin recently visited the rear discussing his long career with Bill Simmons. 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So you never miss the right moment to invest indeed, Robin Hood is giving listeners have Benjamin game of thrones a free stack like apple Ford or sprint to help you build your portfolio. Sign up at binge mode dot Robin, Hood dot com. And now back to binge mode. Back at the castle. John is at San's on her chambers. And we have to know that any true upset a truce dunning development in game of thrones history. The John San's interactions have become some of the best things on the show. There is something really heartening about John's seeking out signs like this going to consoled her, and it makes perfect sense on the one hand. Of course, you should be doing this. But it also feels like progress because they have not always been on the same page, and we will see that they are still not she has some bad news the cower in this guy. Fi glover. They'll be more to come. Globals dad behind how stock as we have thousands of years or until next Tuesday was Jon snow. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't see your call. My phone was off. It was on silent. I'm reminded of why we never like say when an article or podcast is publishing ahead of time. You know, you wanna be able to walk it back this fucking guy. First of all, I think about all they went through to like they went to his house and try to his late. He was such a dick such a fucking dick hamming and Hawkeye doesn't show up for the battle bastards has the get dunked on twice slightly autumn. More to fucking do anything waves it the shame of missing the haunted. Parenti forever is like a week. Yeah. And now the night you must send night kings, come in. And I guess he'd rather make his standard fucking weak ass. Deep would not which Yara took in like a minute yet. Deep would not like, no shade. It's as a fucking castle. It's like it's like wooden fence and a fucking hill of dirt, it sucks in the books in the show deep. Put Mont fucking sucks. I I hope that king goes there. He's gonna get a go there. Glover was as you will recall white displeased with John's decision to go south, and this result chose the tangible consequences of John's alliance Danny and the potential further ramifications once people learned that he's rig our son John quotes Glover's own words back to science at a note, his apocryphal, but San's is ready to challenge. John here. That's it. I will stand behind John snow. He said the king in the north. She's history. John, and she's not afraid to show it when he says that he told her he was going to get allies now, notably. As we've discussed many times on this podcast before without discussing it with signs before announcing his invented. That's the thing. It's like a told you I was going to Vegas. I didn't say when I called you from the core. You mentioned that I was going. And she replies here. You didn't tell me you were going to band in your crew let people in on that part? You gotta let people asandra is on top of it is usual here in this case. A crown is one and the same with family was identity was standing for north Jon replies. In the only way that he knows how I never wanted. A crown? He says this is so true to form a vintage reluctant hero moment for John. Who has we always say is well suited to rule because he doesn't want. It's precisely because he doesn't seek it out that he's the best man for it. As dome allures said to Harry, it is a curious thing, Harry, but perhaps those who are best suited power those who have never sought it those who like you have leadership thrust upon them and take up the mantle because they must and find their own surprised that they wear it. Well, this describes John fully. Yes. All he wanted. He said was to protect the north in his mind and in reality, make no mistake. He's done that better than anyone by bring soldiers and dragonstar north. They need the dragons on the soldiers. Yes, they're not winning without them. They're probably not wanting to everyone, but they're not winning without him. That is the point. To those opposed to Danny John has compromises word in his commitment to the north to John. He's fighting for family in life above all proving in sacrificing his crime that he cares about survival more than power as he said to Manson Danny than said to him their survival is more important than pride as Sam will soon note to John this isn't true for everyone. John sonza there without Danny. They don't send a chance. This is another notable contrast John never thinks that he's enough. Even when he is Danny always does John ask sadza if she has any faith in it. And she says she does it very tender moment between these two showing how much candor and respect as blossomed. She's not her father. He says in though saunas ensuing observation that Danny's much prettier and question about whether John Bentham Nita save the north of because he loves her ends seen the mad king comparison lingers because we have to wonder especially in light of what happens next, Danny and Giora, and my man is I don't know looking you've ration fit you besmirched him. Now, I get into my. Meyer. How handsome Jamie looks you. Call them out you call them, the most handsome man in the world. It's true. I stand by it. But I still love Giora. I can't believe once again for coming in second. Best the heart of the mother of dragons. Now, he's always number one. They had to the library to find Sam who is naturally buried in the scrolls reading up and Giora, very sweetly. Once introduced Danny the man who saved his life and the change starts very pleasantly with Danny praising salmon Sam smiling with such pride and Danny offering reward for a job well done and say, I'm asking for a pardon for stealing books, but the positive vibes melt is rapidly as flesh beneath dragon flame because when Sam nixed mentions the also stole sort his family sort and then mentions the name, Charlie and his father, Danny says not system. Randall again, Danny where your advisers. Sam asks, you know. Yeah. I do I met him and fanny. As we said on the thrones on Sunday night, really needs Gary from veep type of cyst here from the counselors because she should have been walking in and hearing your grace. This is Sam Walton Harley burnt his family live despite Tyrian telling you not too many times. Instead, she it's up saying that SAM's father refused to bend any the rest is implied and SAM's lip quivers. But because he Sammy tries to find a positive noting that at least now be able to return to horn hill. None of my brothers in charge is father. Remember had banished him. But dick on was kind. Dick, dick, we're con Addica on dick on. Here's the rub Danny burned. Dick on a live to stuff brother stood with your father. She says and Sam begins to weep. This faces shaking his lips are trembling and Giora looks really paint here. And it's worth remembering that Sam worked so hard to save Giora from the gray scale after learning his name learning. In other words, his father his family was it didn't matter that you're on his father had fallen out the Giora gone into exile after disgracing his family. And as he is said breaking his father's heart matter that Sam knew that bond still meant something and that knowing and Karen for GR met. No, Ian, caring for Jordan to Sam hated his father who she named him bullied him and cast him from his home, forcing him to take the black under threat of death. Sam brought Julie and little Sam to horn hill. Randall behave abhorrent Louis, clearly, it's not a reasonable to watch the scene and thin k Sam Louis his father TB sad about his brother's. Sure. But why would he really? We react this way. We would argue. However, the fact that Sam felt so uncharitably toward his father Meeks, his despair in this moment all the more impactful because it's not just SAM's bias or love speaking. It is his moral, compass his absolute sense of right and wrong. This was an evil thing. And SAM's response shows that it also shows the pool of family, no matter how dark things get Sam runs out. And who does he run across in the yard? But brand whose quit waiting for an old friend. Brand employers Sam tears and all go tell John now, it's time. Now Sam object saying that brand is his brother brand says he isn't this isn't a rejection of John's place in the family. It's reminder of brand separation from his humanity. And also a testament to the bond that salmon John built he trust you more than anyone brand says, and that's true. Sam is always been the one to help John cope and process, a new and often painful truth, nothing, of course, compares to this which in the most fitting fashion Sam shares in the winter folk Crips of bashing of stark them and family identity thing of John tilling willa finger you don't belong down in the books. John used to dream of the crypts where the old kings of winter would whisper to him that he wasn't a stark. And then he didn't belong these clues to John's parentage have been ever present at our tail, but John does belong REM Sansa believe it in John can keep believing it to and we find John beautifully fittingly in front of nets tomb where he's lighting candles. Remember the exchange that took place between signs on RNC's and seven. Seven in front of that very statue. It was the lamented the poor likeness of their father and signs and noted that everyone in new dad's face was dead were not aria said, and they still aren't neither John neither is brand. And no matter what John and the wider Rome learned they'll remain a family as long as they remained committed to doing. So as John told theon net is a part of him. Still no matter what that's true for John too and forever that is part of the stories lessons his essence hovering over every moment. Just as statue hovers over the scene Ned told John that he may not have his name, but he has his blood, and that's true way on stark blood. But even if it weren't true John would be stark because winter fell is his home in these people are strength so often in recent seasons, we've heard others or John himself compare onto net. Impreza more often to lament some stubborn attempted honor. John's a used neds named the north now neds name could be the thing that they use to try to tear him apart from the north, Jon here's Sam stumble. And he goes to them and they brace so warmly in wonderfully, but John can see SAM's tears, and Sam spares, no breath or feelings telling John exactly what Danny did. She executed my father and brother, he says they were her prisoner. She didn't tell you recall what she did tell him when she returned to dragon soon. I have fewer enemies today that I did yesterday must be chilling for John realized that SAM's father and brother were among those Danny so coolly referenced in that fashion. He looks disturbed as he gives Sam his sympathy. But also says that they have to win the war and winning. The war means aligning with Danny Sam asks if John would have done it and John says truly that he has executed men who disobeyed it. Yes. But he seems tortured as he saying it and Sam notes that John also spared men and acted mercy. Civilly John brought the wild south of the wall at the cost of eventually of his own life. He fired a narrow to end manse raiders misery instead of letting him burn when he was I supposed to drop his sword. He could not bed agreed Jonah's executed traders. Yes. But he has not viciously killed just because someone opposes him or fights. For the other side battle is not murder. It is essential that Sam is the one delivering all of this information to John because he's the most open heart in an open minded character in the story. He's also our avatar the reader and watchers avatar if Sam is responding this way to Danny AMIS worse opposed to be asking ourselves. If Danny is the mad Queen. And if she is what he division between her and John would mean, not only for them. But for the world John response to SAM's observation about sparing the Wild Wings by saying that he wasn't a king. But it's worth remembering that, the inference here that power changes, the choices that you make or the justification for making them is not what John actually. Believes recall his season one exchange with me, streaming about love being the death of duty, and the choice that Ned would make if forced to decide between honor and love John now is realizing what the answer to that question is. And at the time he said that Ned would do quote with ever was right. No matter what. And that's how John tries to act as well. Sam's response to John's line about not being king says chills down the spine. This is it at last. But you were you've always been and John says I gave up my crown Sam, I bent the knee. I'm not king in the north anymore. Not talking about the king of the north San replies. I'm talking about the king of the bloody seven kingdoms and John who'd been storming away and greedy fashion stops in his tracks upon hearing this and turns to face Sam Ned in Leon est tombs beside them the most poetic placement possible for the exchange Sam brutally writing Gilead of history here. I don't know. A year. Really? Absolutely Elision of. Oh gillies. Important research without which none of this would be Basel that Sam. Absolutely. And waved at the time. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it down. Says here that he and bran crack to the code. What are you talking about? John asks your mother was Liana stark, and John sucks in his breath. He almost laughs a little bit disbelieving -ly her statue looming and your father Sam says your real father was radar targe Aryan. You've never been a bastard your Egon tar Garin true heir to the iron throne as the show runner said on inside the episode. This is the most incendiary fact in the world of the story in light of today's theme is worth asking why we can espouse the virtues of the family you choose and we will continue to do. So but characters making choices like that is notable in the first place because it's uncommon in this world in west. There's more often than not blood dictates blood tells blood and birth order decide who you are you get to be what chances you have that isn't right. That is good. But it's the system that west rose operates under so the use of real and SAM's reveal is fascinating. Consider what's real our blood? Our word our choices Ned raise John Ned protected. John by honor. Liane his dime pledge knowing that as Sam says here Robert would have killed John Ned sacrifice this part of his honor. And some part of his familiar harmony with cat who loathed and resented. John is a symbol of her husband's trail Ned gave up a part of himself freely on John if that's not real fatherhood real family than what is. The wheat of John's real name Israel to them on a void. So as is the weight of what it means John charges at Sam like physically charges of him. And then barely above a whisper chokes out. My father was was honorable man I ever met you're saying he lied to me on my life. Yeah. Muchly. His response earlier to signs this is inches. John deflecting, his own feelings turning to Ned rather than confronting what's going on on the inside. But it's also valid what Ned stood for was a defining force in John's live and remained so still so having that called into question on Moore's him in some ways more than the truth of what he actually just hurt. Sam tells him the Ned did it to save him. Which is true. Think of Robert sending assassins after Danny or standing in this very crypt in the very first episode of this show and telling Ned that in his dreams. He kills rig. Our target Ryan John's biological father every night. But a weird thing to say, rob. Weirdo. You're the true king. Sam says here he gone target sixth of his name protector of the realm all of it and John backs up. He can't process it the is our Queen. He says in SAM's response is a a stunner. She shouldn't be that's treason. John says, but Sam is not backing down. And remember, unlike some northerners lords the veil who will struggle to trust John because he's a tar Garin. Sam is not taking issue with that part of who Danny is or with John's family name. He's taking issue with Danny's character. It's the truth. He says you gave up your crown deceive your people would she do the same? It certainly feels like the answer is a strong. No. Very very strong. No. It's really hard. No. You know, as she said to John beginning of seasons. Evan she lifted off the litany of things she has been through to get to this moment and sold like broodmare she'd been raped she's been assaulted. She's the left in the world innocent million different things. She is not giving up her crown at after all that maybe Danny can rediscover the sacrificial instinct that led her to once say my life to marry long ago when processing what cost she needed to pay in exchange for drugs life right now, though, she wants power what she sees as hers by right? And by right of what she's gone through John cares about daddy. But he doesn't care about those things. He just learned the truth about his parents. He's heard concerns about dating from both aria and Santa and he's flat out being encouraged by Sam his most trusted adviser at friend to reach out and grab the throw not because the throne matters to them. But because Sam doesn't think it's safe for Danny to have it. These are. Are all important conversations. But again man the night king is coming. What happened? Everybody's like look to his eyes. And now all of a sudden, it's like you see that waterfall though, my girlfriend. All right for we go on let's quickly but not too quickly it accustom segments. Sponsored by Oriole. Oreo is teamed up with game of thrones to create limited edition, packaging and cookies. Embossed with the Cigielski of three remaining contending houses as well. As symbol of the night. King. Hulo Oreo cookies are best enjoyed when dunked into milk. Who got dumped on this week? I'll tell you Tyrian, Lancaster, go absolutely shredded by and not limited to sonza the lords of the north the Lord's of the Vale, sir. Davos, Lord, various, kind of just everybody a dunk fest. Boom, boom, boom Tyrian in a dip you in milk trip. Like an Oreo cookie. You know who else? God don't on a little bit this episode. Johnny snow, Johnny Johnny snow sonza doing some dunking on on him as well. You know, did you do this for the north or did you do this because you have a crush? But really he got dunked on fiercely and publicly by little Liana more Mont you grace, but you're not are you thanks to Oreo and had Oreo dot com and pledge your field t to the house or night king of your choice in tune into game of thrones on Sundays on HBO. Let's chat about are you in the hound in aria and injury. This is a special aria episode simultaneously anchor in her in the roots of her stark identity and reminding us time, and again how much she's grown in recent seasons. We've caused wonder what growth really meant for our you know, does evolution have to mean. Despair does change half to isolation does purpose half demean violence season seven brought already home. But also put those worries under a microscope casting them in stark relief. This episode is such an effective return to form for the best version of aria at once inscrutable and clearly intention detached and thirsting after vengeance. Removed and fuelled by the love in her heart in part because it reminds us in her the family takes many forms. Yes. Her desire to avenge, her family sheep so much of her life. But so do the non Starks that she found herself with along the way, it's not an accident that her first loaded. Glimpse of John during the new army's arrival is closely followed by her seeing the hound and gantry to unlikely substitutes for familiar bonds in areas life for brow furrows, when she first sees the how'd she smiles softly when she first sees injury. John hound and Gandhari all in a row, these reminders of and pulls back toward different times in her life and phases of her identity recall, how aria for some both of them in the similarities and contrast that play she first sees the hound in the pilot when he arrives as part of Robert's cavalcade behind draft for whom he was sworn shield wearing the dog's head helm that was meant to spark fear. Now, he's laid bare of that pretense are for Sarg injury and a line of marchers and wagons as well this time, though, he was heading away from something not towards something leaving king's landing for life in the night's watch these book and renderings helped manifest this sense of time passing and people journeying both to a new part of the world end in this case back toward each other. We're finally treated to more than just a one-way glance leader in the episode aria visits the forge with over. Quest for injury and the hound us there as well retrieving, the acts the country crafted forum and just as the hound is insulting gantry. We and they hear aria before we see her leave him be. She says she's defending gantry just like she was when they last parted as Mel asandra stole him away for that Leach fuel. Both the hound again returned to look at her. And it is quite a moment. You could fairly argue that both of these reunions deserve their own room to breathe, but there's something really feeding about the first exchange between the hound and aria being rather brief and frosting may both need time to warm up and show how much they mean to each other the show nights us before. Of course that moment in season four when the hand tells aria what happened him as a boy and says, you think you're on your own remains one of the most stunningly vulnerable and moving moments in the show's run to characters hell, bent on always showing their toughness hound the first to say that hates his good a thing as any to keep person going and better than most revealing the pain beneath the persona think back as well to Arias faceless man training when she admitted to the week end to us and most importantly to herself that she had. Taken the hand off her kill list. She wanted him dead. But she didn't. She sounds confused. The wife said, yes, our air replied, she was is a key moment in that part of our is our before she goes back for needle four. She proudly says her name in her home allowed where we can go on believing that she knows who she is in the people who helped make her that way and the hound is unmistakably one of them as he told brand last season. He's not going to be one of the people who gets in her way. Maybe he can be one of the people who helps her find it the hound exits. And it's aria an gingery loon at last minus the other dozen Smith other keeping vats of molten dragon glass into their molds. She's reserved at first almost sad is the looking at him also means looking back and a long ago part of herself, and maybe toward a future that she will wants and fears. Always remember that aria told Ned and sees one that's not me. She doesn't want has never wanted to abide by the social norms of the realm. But that doesn't mean that she doesn't. Want to fuck? Sees me love. Arias reminded to John about the importance of families. Also reminder about the importance of fucking. Is also provider at the importance of love of having someone in something to fight for Genry can be that for her too. But love means attachment attachment means weakness, those are things that are has come to distance yourself from in her case coming back, home means rediscovering a certain part of herself. But it also means leaving other parts behind she complements. His axe work and tells him that he's gotten better seems almost nervous when he replies. Yeah. Thanks. So have you? I mean, you look good this fumbling journey never spoken to. This fumbling. Start is actually quite winning those familiar with nerves of being back in the presence of person you've often wondered about we can see that. They both felt that way about each other. And we can even though our it was ten or whatever. Yeah. You know? Yeah. We can see Grinstead. The wrestling changes. Well, you know, well grin the wisdom of grid. Finally. We could see that they both felt that way about each other. And we can see Ariz face that she's thinking about how happy she is to see him. But also how sad she was when he chose to leave that nervousness quickly gives way to some crackling electric flirting with a little stay close to the forge for warmth talk leading to Ganji asking isn't that a command lady stark fits your your replies? Don't call me that which leads to gander saying as you wish Milady, and this isn't at once heartening and gutting call back to their season three farewell, not their lesson. But their proper goodbye which preceded his capture when Gandhari express that he had chosen to say with the brotherhood because they were a family and more than that a family that chose to be together chose their leader her responses to this day, one of these shows boost perfect encapsulation of longing of the desire to choose someone to protect someone and to have that person. Choose. News and protect you too. I can be your family. She said, you wouldn't be my family. He replied, you'd be my lady they're both from people now than they were then Kendra didn't yet know the truth of who he was that. He was king Robert's sawn an aria, of course, knew who she was but had to make sure that none of the wrong people found out when Gandhari finally learned about his family ties he suffered. He was used aria spent years running away from her ties hiding changing before finally embracing them again. But for a while there they were safe with each other. And maybe they can't be again, it doesn't even have to be romantic though, it certainly seems like it's heading that way as Robert told net in the pilot. I have a son you have a daughter. And one of the great ironies of the story. The true signs of the passage of time and presence of change could be gathering aria fulfilling that statement by choosing team night. Not by anyone else telling them to she's already asked him to give her that spear. Hello she hands over peace far Schmidt. The drawing of what appears to be custom. Spear tipped dragging glass that can be separated in inserted. The item we see her wielding. We think in the season eight trailer up on the battlements and she asks if he can build it any and he asked why she needs it. She has a sword already. And as he learns here of Alaron steel dagger. I always knew you were just another rich girl. He says, you don't know any other richer, lls, your flies dripping with flirtation before sauntering away. She doesn't know that. You don't know that love it. It's right. But you don't know that you're guessing guess. In L quick break for a word from our sponsors. Speech is brought to you by saunas, the experts Sonos meticulously design ever speaker from the inside out combining best in class Wolfer and Twitter's with proprietary software. They work with renowned. Producers mixers end artists to ensure an immersive listening, experience and brilliant room fillings out soon as true play. It's the speaker tuning capability of the recording pros and the palm of your hands. Optimizing speaker sound for the unique acoustics of your room Sonos home theater. Also includes speech and harassment mode to clarify, the sound of the human voice. Perfect characters. Whispered the action. Simply turn it on and the Sonos. Never miss a minute of the story sodas works with all your streaming services and is easy to control what the Sonos app. Your TV remote airplay to your voice. An Amazon Alexa or touch him. So speakers and components. Work seamlessly together, making it easy to customize your sound system and expand when you're ready simply connects Sonos over wifi and enjoy listening in every room. I love my sub woofer it really makes those dragon roars, boom. You know, when we're watching a new game of thrones episode live on Sunday nights. Right. Getting ready to go out there and talk about it get you every word every word every whisper one day, hopefully, again, every wolf, ow. Saunas helps us do that. Go to calm or your sound system. Today. That's S O N S dot com. Bitch mode is also brought to you by policy genius time has habit. It does doesn't it? But if you have a mortgage kids, or anyone depending on your income, you have to spend some of that precious time kidding life insurance. If you need life insurance, but you don't want to spend a lot of time comparing life insurance policies give policy genius tried policy. Genius is easy way to buy life insurance online. Just two minutes. You can compare quotes from top Shire's and find your best Prentice. Once you apply the policy genius team will handle all the people were red tape, no commissions, no hidden fees. Just more time saved for you to listen to binge mode and policy genius doesn't just make life insurance easy. They also make it easy to find the right home insurance auto insurance or disability insurance. They're your one stop shop for financial protection. If you need life insurance. You're short on time head to policy genius dot com. And compare quotes is easy saves you money. It's fast. Follow genius spend less time comparing life insurance and more time doing literally anything else. Mode. Brand and humanity ends with brand star gazing enigmatically newly-arrived. Jamie, Lancaster, the man who pushed him out a window and put it on the road to becoming the three eyed raven strange to say, but I think we agree here. That of all the Starks brand will have the least issue have actions is literally was there to greet him like to make sure. To make sure he doesn't get stabbed to death by one hundred Starks. After all he in his own words is no longer brand stark. He's giving up that identity as the three eyed raven now his concerns are bigger than family feuds dynastic squabbles. Which raises the question. What exactly are those concerns? One of the weaknesses of the brand plotline which speaks to what we consider the shows lack of confidence with the stories fantasy elements is we don't understand what the three driven job is. Yep. What did blood raven do all those years under the where would routes? What is expected of Bram we here at binge mode of theory one which is looking kind of episode one we posit that the role of the three driven is to make sure that certain rifts and paradoxes in the timeline caused by past if such a thing can be said to actually exist three I'd ravens or what have used magical things that the children in the forested that all those irregularities remained in place. This would explain why it would be important for blood raven to take brand back to winner fell during the time. I'm of regard stark as soon as brand been touched by the night came Willis had already been made into Hoter therefore he'd been made by brand into hold Oregon. This theory is supported by brands concern with time early in the episode when Saez welcoming Danny to winter fil after pointed staring Danny's direction upon I laying eyes on her. He interrupts the round of introductions within small talk with. We don't have time. He says informing them at the walls fallen the night king rights Syrian which Danny is just like oh dope. Bizarre. How it very well throughout the episode brand spends most of his time in the art seemingly waiting for people. He stares strangely at Tyrian. After sadza tells the that she wants considered him the cleverest man she ever met. He's quote waiting for an old friend in the yard after SAM's counter with Danny. And he tells Sam that quote, it's time to tell John that old friend turns out to be Jamie arrives. The next day locking is of the brand so much of the iconography and structure of game of thrones revolves around cycles spy. Errol's the irregular seasons the Astrolabe in this show's opening credits, perhaps brands job is to make sure by nudging things along here. And there that those cycles keep running every time you've mentioned this in the last few weeks. It's seemed more and more compelling. I still don't want to be true. Because of what it would mean for the for agency and choice agree with that take still do if ran is moving people around the chessboard to play out of script. It's already written. That's tough wreck. I think that there's a way that it can be. He's just putting them into like a context where they then have to the actual action. Just kind of hoping that things work out that way by making sure that someone like makes a bus or something like that. But like, I agree with you. This is a delicate balance. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not a lot of time left to end that we don't have time for this line that you mentioned a minute ago. Really does feel like this meta commentary on the shows part. And like they're using Brown. Who is so weird that you just accept him lacking a certain social grace to again, excuse a rushed pacing. But again to return to the point you just made with fantasy elements in a story. You cannot do it. You cannot do that. There has to be time for that. There has to be time and an effort made to explain how the magic of play actually works. Similarly, when Sam explaining the truth, John, he says, I had high substance diary brand had whatever brand has. And it's funny as for laugh, but it's really concerning air hand weaving. The actual explanation of how brands magic works and with only five episodes left. It is essential essential the show embraces that information and our ability to understand absolutely have to understand with the three eyed raven job is we just need to understand like why. Why why was blood raven? They're all these years. Why was he so concerned about bringing brands specifically brand there to do the job? What is the actual job? We have to know cheering it's onset Tyrians now multi season long decision making slump can be if we're being arable chalked up to a honestly understandable reaction to finding himself in the position of hand to a Queen who would like nothing better than to wipe one of his family members off the map. Yes. Tyrians? Father Taiwan was awful. Tim is about to have him executed for a crime that both of them new Terry into document any fucked girlfriend. Yes, sir. He has been trying in various forms for essentially all of tears life to kill him. But family ties run deep. I think deeper than a person can be consciously aware of it is probably notable the Tyrians losing streak began in earnest when he found himself facing off against his family nearly all of his poor decisions with the exception of his reasonably disastrous deal with the wise masters for a seven-year moratorium on slavery awful, you guys. Keep doing it for seven years stems from his desire his stated desire to keep house lettuce from getting wiped off the map his decision to split the target reinforces rather than head straight for king's landing resulted in your own smashing of the dragon fleet. And capturing are who by the way was very four. Just go to king's landing and burn it down bad plan. The scheme to capture a white in order to convince to pause hostilities resulted in the loss of vice Irian's of the night, king and a plainly bad. Faith promise by sir. C to send troops to Danny John's eight like plainly, not what she was gonna do. Yes. Of course. And now his profound failure to read his audience. Norther lords who lost friends and family during the war of the five gangs, including those butchered in cowardly fashion at Taiwian Lancaster's red wedding led him to announce the ladder. Are we will be marching north to defend with fell as if that would be met with anything, but derision suspicion Nostitz like he thought they were going to be like, oh good. It's shocking. The hostility toward the tar Gary is obviously very real. But it's also very old. Yes. The hatred toward the Lancers is piping hot and fresh these people off neds head they killed, rob. But Tyrian despite his recent cold streak remains convinced as ever that. He is the one who knows what to say. And what to do that? He's the one who can fix it. I know he says, I know our people haven't been friends in the past. But we must fight either. Now or die. He's giving the John speech. Yeah. But John's already giving the John. It's not great from Lancaster. This will never land and certainly not one who's being openly mocked throughout the rest of the for believing his sister. When no one else does Tyrians ingenuity wit have often been on proud to split. But we have to remember that it's not that long ago that he said out loud, I'm new to strategy and in a moment like this. It shows Tyrian has already admitted that he wishes to avoid the destruction of house Lancaster to sir Sinoe lest after she accuses him of working with Danny toward that end in season. Seven quote, I am the one preventing that from happening to narrate didn't wanna debate negotiate. She didn't wanna bring you words. She wanted to bring you fire and blood until I advised her otherwise, I don't want to destroy our family. I'd never have if tearing was concerned about on new bloodshed. He could have perhaps advise daddy to hover her dragons over just the red. Keep just melt that to the ground lives would have been lost. Yes. But a decapitation strike would mean no sack. Of the city and few actual civilian lives lost. He is in his own words where these aware of it or not responding to the ties that bind him to house Lancaster, the family. He is always wanted to be a part of his greatest successes his term handed the king when he managed and actively took part in the defence of king's landing his escape from the eerie. We're accomplished because of his standing as a Lancaster and his desire to be accepted by Taiwan s we often talk about Tyrian in the context of the cripples bastards and broken things framing as an outsider light John who had to create his own identity beyond the one pressed upon him. And that still holds course, clearly, however, his feelings for his family are things that are beyond his control all doors are bastards in their father's is he told John and season one, and we should never forget that much of Tyrians character as that quote shows was formed as a reaction to his father's disdain in that to stand in Tyrians desire to turn it into acceptance and love or at least to just. Proved Taiwian wrong was like Tyrians lodestar in little wonder that without that he's kind of floundering yet when tearing catches up Asanga his one time wife remember that after his disaster showing winter falls hall signs. Now, clearly the senior partner in this relationship. The lady of winter fell effortlessly and commanded managing vast ecosystem of soldiers and supply lines. She makes no effort to hide her contempt for his rudderless nece or his weakness Daljit up. I really miserable affair. He says about the perp wedding. It had its moments. She response witheringly clear reference to Jeffrey's death by poison. And the fact that in that at least she could take satisfaction before. Tearing can even go speak to sonza. He has to get basically permission Royce who waits for Sanz not before departing. Remember as ROY said in season seven the knights of the Vale came to winter fell for son. Yes, now a little out of the picture and sweet Robin off guzzling breastmilk somewhere Nissen. Nissim? Target despite shooting arrows from like seven feet. She's truly control nine only at winter fell. But of all the veils stream -ly, powerful and formidable force in the room right now. A contrast to -tarian Jaren. Who has to find out secondhand that his Queen or John's legions and listen at the door while they fuck it's really tough. Tough times for Tyrian. Suns makes no effort to hide her disdain for Danny? When speaking deteriorate her hand. She's not afraid of what she thinks feels anymore. Tyrian sounds a both find themselves positions of power and influence, but since they parted Tyrian has regressed while San's, despite the horrors that she suffered has learned to believe in herself many underestimated, you Tyrian tells her most of them are dead. Now, he was never one of the people who underestimated her, and he isn't now, but she's worried that he's over estimating himself. She simply cannot believe that he thinks Hersi is being wild. When you say it out loud astonish, it's like crazy to hear with overt PD and her voice. She says I used to think you were the cleverest man alive, and for Tyrian of all people who once told John that he read so much because his mind is his weapon, and quote a mind needs books like a sword needs. A wet stone. This is the greatest possible slight you have to imagine. The Jamie, one of the first thing Jim going to say it is trial. Is she hired the golden company plant is stab you guys of the back, right? Syrians. Oh well. Equally. See, no pun intended, or Tyrians fellow advisors. Verisign devils after admiring the car stark citadel in the art one of the better schedules. Three move to winner falls walls to discuss how to solve the absolutely intractable problem of Danny's lack of support from the northern and a wild links to groups who strongly support John despite him bending the knee. What can they do? We've got these two single good-looking folks who obviously like each other. They've already been fucking. We need both of their parties to accept the other. What can we possibly what can we do? Tyrians response to Davos, noting that John brought peace the northern houses is frankly alarming it it's just like misses the point comply such a wide margin that it's actually crazy. Our Queen is grateful. What's this has nothing to do with then do them, and that is doubled his whole point you want? Loyalty says you'll have to earn it that, of course, is an exactly no no in Carthy shouted. I will take what is by with fired blood, and she's been true that promise ever since even in her most gracious moments as a liberator, which I mean, looking back in retrospect with the context, we have now, of course, she loves it. When people absolutely are fawning over her and own everything that's pretty great later in this episode. We're reminded of what happened to Randall dick on just to the people didn't immediately pledge. That loyalty, Danny? This is dangerous Donald whose credit understands it for Danny the strength of her family. Name is enough. It's birth rate. It's everything Davos knows that in the north all that name is a barrier to understanding here. It's about a way of life. And I did essence not name the night proposes in his words, a proposal again once upon a time teary and would have been the one it's so Jedi. He was when it came to Mercer and bringing doernen to unite the round this exact tactic is used before here. Davos says on the off chance that we survived the night king. What if the seven king those for once in their shit history were ruled by adjust woman honorable, man. But throughout much of this episode the question of whether Danny ease just or at least able to balance Justice and mercy take center stage and here tearing remarks on what handsome couple they make and not in the Ono. He loves her way that so much of the postseason seven speculation led us to anticipate there is a very different response. You overestimate our influence, he says, John generis don't wanna listen to lonely old men Varis what happened to you. Right. This please like for a chuckle a Tyrian objecting to being grouped in among the decrepit. But it's also alarming because it's true. Danny John aren't really famous for listening to their advisors as everyone who's ever tried to check Danny's worst impulses can tell you and his sons would say of John as well as the truth services in the great war comes to winter a witch forces will hold the greatest sway their own convictions. The trust that they place and others the pull of family ties or the. The thirst for survival above all now, of course, Dabo's doesn't know that he's suggesting and nephew get hitched. When that's clear, what will people say will. They balk unlikely Danny grew up believing she'd marry her brother Vai serious and some late incest, light, incest has been targe staple for years light to moderate to heavy gotta keep those dragon riding bloodlines pure folks, still it's worth considering the subtle shifts that this reveal will unearth now this adjusted amounts to saying that Danny should take Jonah's her king King Kong sort essentially once every knows who John is the equation will be John taking Danny as his Queen or them ruling as equals if everyone could be mature enough to embrace such a vision. But marriage isn't just about ego. It's about uniting families names kingdoms we've heard time and again throughout the show's run, you only make peace with your enemies as little finger said that's why it's called making peace. Yes. Taiwan said you don't need to make a formal alliances with people you trust who could you trust? Himself and his family alone that wound up being a fruitful way of thinking until it was a dangerous right now, Danny John aren't enemies, and they don't distrust each other. They're falling love, but the various forces at play in the story, including John drew name and everyone's respective ambitions and fears could change that even if it doesn't the premise holds marriage with lock in protections and commitments it would be what John wanted if Danny's in fact carrying his child, but if the people you trust most don't trust, Danny as marriage the way to solve that or impossible divide to bridge Tyrian, Davos embarrassed, don't just want to chat about marriage, though, they want to assess the existential nature of being tyranny says our Queen respects the wisdom of age, another Taiwian, Ian idea here, remember his signature exchange with Tom and in front of Jeffrey's rapidly decaying corpse wisdom makes good king, quote, a wise king news what he knows. And what he doesn't Taiwan said. But here there isn't positioning this trio's wisdom as an asset. He's put. It out there almost as a burden as a sign of their increased relevance. Of course, she does he says respect is how the young keep us at a distance. So we don't remind them of an unpleasant truth. What's that Tyrian asks embarrass says, nothing less? This is sad and powerful idea. Everything's fleeting. We work every day to fully actualized realize the truth of our own potential as well as our goals, but it fades we turn to dust and sodas, whatever we build. That's why the Taiwan's of the world are so obsessed with legacy. They wanna push back against that reality. It's what remains of you when you're gone Taiwan once told aria in game of thrones is at its best when all of the players, but especially the players on the side in the shadows. Think that way and act in an effort to pursue that ambition with former master plotters like Taiwan and little finger dead off the board and former master plotters league various interior in relegating themselves to the bleachers is. It's disheartening. It's also importantly, contrary to the idea of breaking the wheel of saying that something mattered more than the family name, something like equality. Fairness. Goodness, why fight for real change. If you don't believe it can last searching, you're on will those two your on been talking a lot of game talking loud about his prowess as a captain which. Okay, fair and in his telling his large cock for quite a while since his arrival in king's landing seven, he's been openly campaigning for the position of Royal impregnator dispersing, Lancaster. And finally after securing the allegiance of the golden company, delivering them to king's landing without the opens. She is furious, by the way when I was as rewatching season's finale. She's like urine graduate has gone to the golden company twenty thousand men, arches, cavalry and elephants. I believe she says an elephants I believe she was. Waiting for those elevates when she needs a contract lawyer. That is my tape. You say they've never broken a contract. But like she signed a contract for elephants, and they're not here. Yet, another round of rugged Yoshiko mixed with just the right amount of pleading and you're in God his wish, sir. She begrudgingly lets him smash. I'm going to put the Brinson your belly. He says on his way out after being dismissed one problem. He's a bit late as I told Jamie last season, she's already pregnant one theory, which we subscribe to here is that this encounter was designed by thirty two trick on into thinking he had done just what he boasted he would do give her child her reign as it is hangs by threat. She surrounded all sides, by enemies to the point that she's had to buy an army the golden company when she meets that army. It's an empty throne room. She's ruling over ghosts right now save it was known that her child was the product of incest with Jaime. The realm would never allow that trial to ascend to the throat when I was slightly more in control. She said she didn't care about that. But without Jamie buyer size. You can't pursue. That course, Lancers aren't the target areas. After all the euro on scheme, then is a means to safeguard to protect her unborn child and to keep your on in the fold. So that he can protect his air his name as he says Yara aboard his ship silence. We're family last grade was left in the world. Adding if I kill you who can I talk to I've got a crew full of music. It's lonely at C you mocking tormenting her, but there's something slightly sincere. There you're on is a Kim slayer madman without honor or civility, but he has iron born pride, and that's not much good. If they're no iron Bornes left. What happens when your family becomes your enemy? We're seeing that play out with both people in this new search year on relationship. You're tells you're on that he picked the losing side. And he says that if that proves true, he'll just sail back home. He has no actual oil data services. She is just one more pathway to power for him. And she smart enough to know that and thus to try to trick him into. Staying loyal. But also classic, sir. She fashion hubristic enough to wind up getting caught in her own scheme recall. The Blackfish is line to g me about how bargaining oath breakers like building on quicksand. That's what he's doing here yet as Tyrian feebly notes to signs up winter fell Sergia swimming to live for now. Just on the way he thinks yes, she wants to live to protect her child. But that's manifest in a very search e-last Rask fashion as vengeance. Sir is well aware of the dangers around her. She believes that will house Lancaster's enemies live. She and her child will never be safe. When Guibert tells her that the wall is fallen her response is schilling. Good. Wow. But after you're on begs her to hear how good he is in bed really needy. This is ease of the lottery, very very needy. Man. She must not be good at faking an orgasm. These like was a good. And when he leaves the last we see tears sources is her family has always been her anchor to humanity and now, but for her on born child, and this doesn't even account for the possibility of her miscarrying. She is alone. She's drinking so much wine. The other thing Sirs he brought on the Lancers team rival winter fellows, a pitch perfect note on which to end the episode another parallel to the pilot. Then he arrived in the golden armor that he was renowned for removing his golden home the to reveal his golden hair. Now, he's hooded sneaky in with the crowd on the other hand John invited. Everyone is breathing on the other get better security winner fell like it's pretty wild JV Lancaster, just wrote in and also recall aria and those two idiot guards from last season adult you wait right here. Goo, and then they turn around and she's gone. It's like what is happening around here. Now, he pulls off his hoods reveal a shock of dark hair and beard, dotted with grey, a nice visual representation of how he's moved away from his golden Lancaster routes Jamie's face when he sees brand is everything he's confronted right away with his past past when he did awful things for as he said then love for C for family. Jamie pushing brand out of the tower ended the pilot genie brand locking is in shock for Jamie. And yeah, I've been waiting three eyed raven for brand is perfect harmony, they're looking at each other across time Jamie's back in front of brand now because he's moved away from his family from from the ties at always made him worse. It never better. And he's moving toward the light as he has been and hopes to keep doing if those waiting inside the hall will let him you might have dodge something other than difficult questions. From the winter fell beasts interrogators, however like across ball bolt from Brian because while bronze trying to enjoy very lazy orgy with three kids landing and again, it's like a spa. Day for let him lay there. Cavern interrupts Eric. Dass murder. Jamie Tyrian for see another pilot callback, actually, featuring brothels and lens or family dynamics and sex position. He gives Braun the crossbow the chaffeur used to kill rise and the tearing USA kill Taiwan, noting that has quote, a keen sense of poetic Justice bronze reply that fucking family, sir. Sees long wanted Tyrian dead, but she fought for children nj me for so long. And now she's so broken that she sending Jamie's friend kill him will do his role in firing big crossbow at the doth Raqi in drogue on. Now seems quite forboding could takeout attempt gone wrong? A bolt fired astray hit Brin and Lee Jamie to finally kill fulfilling Vallon core prophecy. That's a scary possibility that seems real could Bron conversely prove loyal to the brothers revealing this plan to them and thus leading Jimmy to finally kill source e fulfilling Valentine. Prophecy Braun has always been honest about wanting the highest price for his services never hid that when he refused Tyrians request to be his championing. It's the mountain interior invoked their friendship bronze said, I I'm your friend. And when have you ever risked your life for me recall to in tearing asked whether Brown would kill baby without question. If that's without question. No, I'd ask how much well searches left him chestful goal. And he's still looking for that castle that wife bronze iconic introduction to Taiwan included, the lime you wouldn't know him about his own father. He doesn't have a famous name in the span of our story tearing Jamie, intern of the closest thing he's had two family brother's friends in addition to employers, but maybe bronze true tie. It's the mother's mercy that he finds each bag of gold the goal and company your history in the books. The golden company was founded by the supporters of house black fire cadet branch of how star gearing who having lost the first of the. Civil wars known as the black fire rebellions we're forced to flee to s shipped of their lands. Entitles the supporters of house black fire had no choice, but to sell their swords to earn a living their leader. In those early days was eager rivers known as bitter steal a bastard. Son of king gone the fourth. Tar Garin gore was a key supporters half, brother. David waters known as Damon black fire after king on gave him black fire. The sort of on the conquer wanting to keep support for the cause concentrated bitter steel founded the gold and company and they mmediately in a reputation for professionalism, which makes sense as they were castle trained in quipped nights and lords but remember former knights and lords which is how the golden company fits into our theme. We don't yet know how closely the show version of Harry, Strickland Hughes to the books homeless Harry. But if the goal and Comey's origins carryover being invited to west is just the opportunity that these men in the men who came before them have been dreaming of afro becoming mercenaries was never the end goal. Every contract. They took it fair. Famously honored was in service of one mission to return home to west rose to their ancestry lands and castles and keeps if this is the case in the show. Search has made a mistake on par with her arming of the faith militant in an attempt to buy off the high Sparrow, and what is her? She ever made a mistake. It's only every time you're on your relationship has always been fraught ura has always been everything. Yon wanted to be a formidable sea-captain respected by her men accepted by their father feared by their enemies fee on meanwhile, desperately wanted to belong anywhere when he was at winner fell he ingratiated himself. So the Starks to the point of calling rob my brother now, indulge his brother now and always always ready with a joke that made someone look smaller and made himself look better, his defining characteristic was his insecurity. He was not comfortable in his own skin and ironic. Treat considering what Ramsay Bolton would later due to him Yara me. In while knows who she is. And is utterly confident in that time and again the-an has caused yard disappointment and eggs, despite their differences your risk for life to attempt to rescue theon from the dread for the frightfully dangerous mission that took her and her men far from the sea in deep into enemy territory, but theon traumatized by torture, refused to leave his cage when you're on smashed into yards capital ship and season seven fee on fought bravely, but dove into the sea when you're on who was holding our prisoner over the screams of men dying. Taunton him theon, nearly comically easy fashion. We should note has rectified that. With only a handful of iron board and in perfect symmetrical fashion to how Yara lost her while getting down with Lara theon manages to board your ship while he's in the red keep kill his iron board, sailors rescue are offering no apology and pain with nothing but ahead, but and shame got off easy. He did. He's been getting off easy this whole time. Yes. I know he's been tortured the whole thing. I understand it. Again, we forget that he like killed and burned to children. Took like four sword. Strokes to behead Rodrick like true via mount of shitty things that he has done is wild Lewin Lewin, dead because of him. It's insane Sade. Later CR announces that. She's going back to checkoffs iron islands. They can't swim guys. It safe there. Because quote today's will need somewhere to retreat if they can't hold the north theon looking pained, declares his intention to take his redemption tour to winner fell after all the stocks once family to him as well finally net. They don't mock the night king and the children of the forest. We see then I king spiral symbol at last hearth seed of how somber before a little Ned got nailed to the wall between a bunch of mangled limbs he played a small but pivotal role and continuing to establish John's approach to leadership after John's decision to let the Wild Wings the wall and his ensuing assassination at the hands of his own men. He could have grown suspicious and closed off. But after the battle the bastards he still invited house on burn house car star back into the fold telling all of the assemble that he would not hold the child responsible for the sins of the parent. John in other words, was able to do what he will now need others to do both for his sake and for Danny's look beyond a family name put the past aside for the sake of the future when we reach. Last their tormentor, they're alive, and well, no mention for explanation for how they escape the crumbling wall. None but alas and they make their way through the carnage of blood bits. They come across Eddin co Steve AC he's got blue eyes, which by the way, say more aggressive towards Ed than they were towards the Nike. They were. Mm considerably. I've always had blue eyes Storman shots. And it's welcome levity amid the heaviness in the horror, and Ed and torments ensuing. Embraces one more stab shot of how drastically life in the ties the Biden west roasts of change. The Lord commander of the nights, washing the defacto head of the Wild Wings earned bracing brothers because they are brothers in the war against the dead bear gas, if they found anyone Ed brings them to the hall where number pin to the wall in the middle of the spiral Mita limbs the same Mark that we've seen time and again include it in the children of the far stones where they created the night. King. Barrick says it's a message from the night king. And we've seen symbols from the white walkers since the first episode of the show beyond the wall in the prologue as a fist of the first men in season two we've also seen these symbols from the children in the cave dragon stone. And again, those standing stones around the creation site theories abound, including a newly popular one about the visual symmetry between the spiral and the tar Garin Syjuco. But if. Spiral matches the pattern of the students were the Nike was made. We can't help. But wonder if it could be way communicating connection to his innocence family, his makers, the children of the forest, and thus perhaps a sign that he wants to be. A spiral indicates cycles patterns repetition. Could this be the answer to what the Nikes after? Maybe he needs a replacement. Could it be John who there could not be a more fitting end for them sacrificing himself? So that humanity can prevail. As net ember shrieks and barrack a lights the little white. And we see this symbol the night. King this symbol of ice on fire. It looks a little bit like spokes on oil. Well, Jason you've completely ruined horses for me. That's the power. I have you can make it up to me by semblance the conclave heading to the citadel to teach us everything we need to know about dragging writing. Drager anyhow, Reggie dragon. As any might say, no one knows if they can ride a drag until they ride drag John knew that he could ride a dragon on the boat. And now he really knows that he can write a drag it which raises some interesting questions Danny's political power and her legitimacy come from drags, John has bonded with radio that power has been deluded. So let's talk about the dragons dragons, aren't teamed in the traditional sense of the word. They're intelligent, obviously, immensely powerful. Dragged writing is therefore a relationship the tardy areas used to play dragon eggs in the cribs of their children, a foster the bond dragons can be controlled by verbal commands truecar's, but immaturity, they often seem to respond instinctively to their riders wishes once bonded. A dragon will not accept any other writer until they're human partner expires. They will however allow others on board as passengers as long as they're riders present the one writer rule carried over to the show Lor as some interesting implications of John. Is bonded to wriggle than Danny may have unwittingly given him away. Giving him away so tough for wild. And massively weakened herself in the process. And if so what a strange way for John's dragon writing career to begin as I noted in this week's estimator, quote, why doesn't Danny having no reason to suspect that John has Derian blood react to Ray galls. Acceptance of Danny's Wolverton tar, Gary history and lore as children living on the streets in Esso's, she and her brother Vai series had nothing to hold onto. But there are Gary and identity did Danny not realize that Regal's acceptance of John is a writer suggests that he could therefore have Gary and blood. She seemed perplexed drones interest in John on in season. Seven why not now that answer will have to wait. The orange of dragons themselves are shrouded in mystery, but they're rightly closely associated with Valeria Valerian alone could ride dragons with the power of dragons, they created the most powerful empire and the most advanced civilization the world had known. And then it was all wiped out by the doom almost all that is famously the target areas in their dragons escaped having relocated to drag stone a dozen years before the doom history. However tells us that a handful of Valerian individual dragon lords did survive in Tirosh lease citizens of those cities exultant at the end of Valerian oppression rioted and murdered the drag lords in their midst and their dragons in cohort dragon Lord, named orien- raised a militia thirty thousand strong flew off to lay claim to what remained of Leiria he and his dragons and his army were never seen. Again. Unlike in the show in the books targeting blood is likely not necessarily necessary factor in bonding with drag the target areas were one of several mobile dragon writing families of Larrea, the free cities of Esso's Bravo's accepted were all founded by Valerian colonists, the cultural and political elites of Atlantis those permitted to live within the walls of the section of the city known as the lenses can all trace their ancestry back to Valeria. The blood of overlay or runs very strong that people have lease who are renowned for their Valeri features. And surely there are numerous descendants of Larry dragon lords in Esso's all of them, theoretically capable of bonding with dragon the show runners have stated unequivocally that only targe areas can ride drag. It's in this world will there are numerous families with tar Gary lineage in west Rosa's, well house Baratheon was founded by Auras breath. Ian, a bastard brother of on the conquer Ganji, then good ostensibly ride a drag it when Dorn was brought into the realm, nearly two centuries after Aegon's conquest, the pack was sealed by the marriage of Merrin, Mortell Lord of sun, spear and prince of Dohrn and the Princess generis so many recycled names in this family, targeting younger, sister of king der, the second for house Martell, and even the sand snakes should be able to ride dragon's rest in peace. To those. To those notable names, how Celtic are claw. I'll in the storm has rumored to possess. Valerian steel axe house Valerian at of Larry on a legitimized bastard road the beautiful dragon see smoke during the time of the dance of dragons civil war, the Valerian of drift Mark were owners of a rich naval tradition. Probably many many many people descended from trysts between all of the above and the sex workers have workers servants who populate those aforementioned areas all of which is to say the town for dragon writing is quite possibly more common than anyone suspects. I mean, we're out there fucking. Mello is new just another rich girl. You don't know any other girls, maybe we can find some in the set. So let's head there to bathe in the light of the seven by sharing seven of our favorite, insights observations. From this episode lightning around style, you go first. Number one. Folks, it is simply put a coup rhyme. That goes with not in the season eight premiere AAC crime we last so ago st- does in season six episode three. Team fifteen episodes without him, the most obvious seamlessly to reintroduce into the story would have been to have sitting there waiting to greet John. And now when these each other John will have to tell him that he cheated on him with rain doll it. Also, it's not to fight in a fucking war. It's not cheating. If it's different species. So we have an already missed the window for those quiet moments, though, snuggles really catching up special effects supervisor job our told Huffington Post last year that ghost would be in season. Eight saying, quote, he's very present. And does some pretty cool things in season eight and David nutter who directed this episode? And also directing episodes to end four this season said in a retin-a, quote, I have to say that you will see dire wolf in season eight that's all I can say when will we see a dire wolf the battle of winner fell. You know that that's true number to suck with those new and fancy opening credits man when they hit immediately as soon as we saw the Ashra lab in the new credits crowd -able. It was great like our story. The map is now condensed focusing on the few locations currently matter we enter them out through the breach in the wall. Which is the first time we enter from that direction, very cool and chilling. We hit last hearth which sits on the spirals that match the simul eventually night kings left at side. We moved to winner fell. And then inside a winner. Phil cluding down into the crypts confirming yet again, the Crips are going to play a pivotal role in season eight, and we hit the red keep in Kingsland, and we go inside as well to the dragon skulls in the dungeons and then into the throne room where Lancaster lion hangs above the iron throne. The bans on the lab. Have also changed they so crucial scenes from history. Now that history comes from the iconic moments in the show's run in the world's history. Vice hearing in the night king bringing down the wall with the army of the dead below them. The lion of Lancaster tower of the twins and flayed men of Bolton massacring houses totally stark at the red wedding and Danny's dragons being born under. A red comet which gets those bleeding star prophecy juices flowing in if you haven't please Redan high Cuna with creators of this sequence at the rare dot com. Cribs number three the parallels between the season eight debut winter fell and the show's pilot winter's coming extend to the musical cues as well for John. Danny's arrival composer remained Djawadi crafted a variation. And update of the track the king's arrival, which I penned for Robert and sir sees winter fell entrance in season. One episode on four could Harry Strickland or someone else on the golden company have black fire one of the fabled and presumed loss Valerian steel swords of house targeted and perhaps the fabled sword this long was once held by Avon the conquer and it was passed from king to king through much of the target area. Rain until the year one eighty two in the reign of a on the unworthy when he awarded black fire to his bastard. Son Damon waters instead of his true, born, son and future. King dare on the second Daymond adopted the sword name to his own spinoff line house, black fire and rebel. The crown and when he died at the battle of red grass field, his half-brother eagle river's known as bitter steel picked up the blade and fled to the free cities swords known history stops with bitter steel, but seeing as he founded, the golden company Esso's might he have passed the sword down to eventually, Harry. You get a quick look at Harry's pommel in the premier and while it doesn't appear to match the descriptions of black fire looks pretty sassy. What do you think? I don't think he would carry it if he had it. But it would not surprise me. If they had it at it definitely would not surprise me. If they have some hidden west Rosie targeting slash Valerian lineage that they're keeping quiet about never five. We need to talk about John's no sex life just for a second year. Yeah. First of all our guy only does the deed either in front of waterfalls or on bodies of water. Don't hate. Good for him pattern here. Fucking hate. Listen if there could have sex on a ship. You would do it. True. It's a great point. At least yours words proved prophetic and the living have to flee after losing the battle and go to the iron islands or dragon stone or any island John will be surrounded by water and thus ready to roll seconds. Can we just marvel for moment at the absolutely hilarious of John saying to Davos on dragon sodas and seven that quote, there's no time for that that being sex. I saw the night king Davos, I looked into his eyes. This is in response to Davos, bringing up John's clear infatuation with Danny. But now. The Nike bridge the mall is on the March. I honestly get it. He's like, let's go. I'm happy for these kids. It's great support it. But this is just you know, it's worth pointing out these discrepancies. That's what happens happens you want to feel alive before. Yeah. Come on live a little bit. On a more serious note, the penchant for waterfall hookups raised as simultaneously sweet and worrying parallel to an earlier, romantic interludes and John's life Judd's first sexual encounter. Of course. Famously comes. With egret indicate in the north when he proves to be a prodigy at the Lord's kiss. Right. And after the various activities, they take a bath together because John smells bed. They both smell horrible. Again. She's like when was the last time you had a bath. They both smell fucking terrible. No question. No, both doubt. Disgusting. And that bath, whereas it it's front of a waterfall at which point eager says, quote, I don't ever wanna leave this cave. John snow not ever now after Danny jaundice mount, their dragons and move to go Cousy up in front of this waterfall, Danny says, we could stay thousand years. No, one would find us as this entire episode really reinforces these parallels these callback. They are all deliberate. John egret that low story warmed our hearts was a lot of fun. But that was a doomed love. So is this parallel a sign that John and Danny's love is doomed as well all of his doomed. Wow. Get it in while you can number six Danny worried that are dragging already getting tells John it's because they don't like the north. That's a common theme, photography and dragons, according to two thousand eighteen fire and blood a history of the dynasty when prince Jakarta's flew to winner. Phil on his dragon ver- max during the dance of dragons to negotiate with the Starks, quote, snow and ice cold ver- max ill tip, so the Princeton linger long among. The north men when good clean Alassane visited the wall with her husband king Jerash, she subsequently wrote in a letter thrice I flew silver wing, high above castle, black and thrice. I tried to take her north beyond the wall that every time she veered back south again fused to go. Never before has. She refused to take me where I wish to go. I laughed about it. When I came down against the black brothers would not realize anything was amiss, but it troubled me, then and it troubles me. Still it obviously works differently on the show because we saw dragons be on the wall and season seven with the pattern of dragging behavior and discomfort in the north persists. Our pals Zach cram and Riley Makati planet dive into this topic at length on this week's game of thrones pre capitals. So be sure to check that out number seven it. Appears it game of thrones has giving us the Ed Sheeran closure that we all need. God wall Braun is beginning his very lazy orgy the brothel workers carry out an exchange about the boys. They used to Faulk who burned during. Quote, boy, Eddie one of them says the Jinja another asks that's him the first one aka the poxy one says, and then continues came back with his face burned right off got no now, very tough break for our guy at Sharon. Jason. Yeah. I used to think you were the cleverest man alive. That's okay. Just as long as I had that title for a huge amount of time. So did this week's winner. Each episode. We're going to honor the person who played the game advance their cause some tangible way and this week winner of our champions person. Sonya stark jewel legend in an episode where many characters are struggling to grasp who they are what they should do or how to reconcile their desires with reality sauna is in control in command way that really stands out. She knows who she is. She knows where she is. She knows what she has to. She has the courage of her convictions. She trusts herself and others trust her because they see that may believe in perhaps, most notably. She is aren't Arias loyalty true testament to the faith that her resilience brings out in those around her. She casts relentless shade at Danny and mercilessly crushes dunks over Tyrian continuing her now proud winter fell balcony dunk fest tradition and walled on Cantieri. She liens and absolutely iconic jab about Joffrey Diana's on wedding Tyrian says last time we spoke with the chargers. Wedding miserable affair and sauna says it had its moments and s she's focused on practical concerns in addition to political ones like how are we going to feed all these soldiers and dragons guy. Guys. Weet? Where's everybody? Shitting? We talk about this. What is going on with the shit if only grin had lived. I know he needed to hold the gate, but granny was a master at digging the latrine. Yes, you really was San's also has the fortitude to question John while still supporting him, which is a really delicate balancing act it. Honestly, very few characters are able to navigate at this point shots this star while France, you gave up your crown to save this podcast. Would is cram are indispensable producer and researcher. Do the same. We hope you had as much fun today as we did the you're as excited as we are to continue this journey, and they will join us again next week for our episode on the as yet unnamed season eight episode two until then remember in Judas, always had blue eyes.

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Dirty 3 (Friday)

Mojo In The Morning

05:18 min | Last week

Dirty 3 (Friday)

"Hey, Mojo in the morning the Kroger are ex savings club powered by good Rx can provide discounts on thousand prescriptions. Members also have access to over hundred common generic prescriptions. Members save up to eighty five percent visit Kroger S C Dot Com ready to start saving with the. Kroger Rx savings. Club. Thirty. Really know how else to put it just what it is. Cardi B. was horny on her birthday and that's why she says she offset are back together. This is from an instagram life that she did yesterday Pharmacopoeia different. Really hard on your best friend and is really hard for haven't had an and then as people been saying dad took him back like a more materialistic I believe material things are not in the evenings nothing like no, and why I would want him from Reagan use your imagination as to what I had out there Cardi said, no shame. She just gotTa Miss Them. A lot of been harassed new will own been out of been sensitive with this. Bet. No, I'm just a crazy big one. Happy. The Nicks video wannabe up and they know. The again off again is weird at all for her age circle. His typically who young. John Mary earlene. Beverly are. We are definitely are reliant known different than. From fields. Yesterday ESPN's Schefter broke the news that the Atlanta Falcons you can stop playing by the way. Adam schefter broke the news that the Atlanta Falcons had closed their practice facility and paused all in person activities after the team received or new positive tests. Well, let's set the record straight on that one it turned out to be inaccurate. The Falcons did hit pause on operations but they did not have four positive tests. The team had won personnel member test positive. So the match up in Atlanta against the Vikings is still on as originally scheduled is that Sunday Joey Think I think is if you know, you're no. Nicki. menaj revealing her brand new babies gender. She is a proud mama to either way. She shared the sex of her new edition while raving about entering motherhood on instagram and she shared some sweet congratulatory messages that she had been receiving and some gifts and stuff. She said she is doing great. She's madly in love she said my my favorite litto. She spelled it like that too. My favorite little boy in the whole wide world. She also revealed she got a a handwritten card from beyond say that read welcome to Motherhood God, bless you and your family. Real Quick Kim Kardashian Jimmy Kimmel Tyler Perry Randall Park and Dax Shepard have all joined the voice cast for the paw troll animated movie. If you're a parent, this is a heads up I know lots of kids left Paul Patrol but the film is based on the animated nickelodeon series of the same name. We will get in theaters next August if all. Goes as planned, and lastly, there's a place called lash shells bakery. It's in hat borough Pennsylvania and cookies featuring the name and party color of candidate are sold so that people can quote unquote vote with their cookie purchased for the past three elections. Joey sales have accurately predicted who's going to win the presidency. This is Kathleen Koch L. She's the bakery's owner. Pennsylvania is such a hot state. That the area is like, okay. Well, I want my candidate to win on buying the so, of course, the question is what selling more this year read cookies or blue. Cookies. If the winner was chosen today from Cookie Poe Donald Trump has blown out water read cookie. It is and real quick speaking of the election lady Gaga yesterday staring and original song instructing people how to register to vote for the upcoming election. Hi, this is definitely German oughta otherwise known as Lady Gaga and I go to sing along about voting. Do. You Know How do I know. You Go. It's called. Turbo Vo Dot. Ahrq t you are. The Ot in done or are. You can see the full video on the dirty page at motive morning dot com. Celebrity dirt directly from the source seeds dirt on Mojo in the morning. When you're trying to expand your family and having a tough time doing it. The doctors at Michigan want to help their success rate for is pretty amazing. It's the highest in the entire state of Michigan people fly from all over the country to see Dr Shamma who was one of the pioneers of the procedure, and if you ask anyone who is a client of IVF, Michigan about their experience, they're going to tell you the same thing. These doctors and nurses have such a passion for what they do. They WanNa make you apparent as much as you want to be one get more info by texting the word baby to nine, five, five, zero, zero message and data rates apply.

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"Lincoln Conspirator" - Mary Surratt

Female Criminals

46:30 min | 2 years ago

"Lincoln Conspirator" - Mary Surratt

"Have you ever been in a life or death situation? What's it like to be in a position where your life hangs in the balance or to be the person responsible for freeing the innocent held captive on par, cast new show. Hostage will explore these complex heart pounding situations. Some with endings that went tragically wrong and others with miraculous reunifications subscribe now to hostage as our hosts go behind the scenes inside the world's most intense hostage negotiations and be sure to stay tuned to the end of this show for sneak peek of the first episode hostage premiers Thursday, October eighteenth with new episodes, every Thursday search hostage, wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe now. Due to the graphic nature of this criminals crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of conspiracy slavery and presidential assassination that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. America is a young and deeply patriotic country with impassioned citizens on both sides of the political divide. Even though that divide may seem deeper today than it ever has been. There was one period in history. When political differences actually split the country apart in the tunnel to the civil war America lost one of its most famous and beloved presidents. ABRAHAM LINCOLN was assassinated by confederate supporters only eleven days after the surrender of the south. While we've all heard of John Wilkes booth, the popular actor who shot Lincoln few know of Mary Surat the first woman ever executed by the US federal government. For her part in the Lincoln assassination was Mary a cold blooded co conspirator in the murder of president, or was she simply guilty of misplaced loyalties to her son. And his assassin friends. Picture a murderer, a gangster a thief. Did you picture a woman? We didn't think so. Society associates, men with dangerous crimes. But what happens when the perpetrator is female every week we examined the psychology motivations and atrocities of female criminals. Hi, I'm Sammy ni- and I'm Vanessa Richardson and you're listening to female criminals. Today will be exploring the life of Mary ceramic. One of the co, conspirators convicted of helping John Wilkes booth in his plot to assassinate president. ABRAHAM LINCOLN, if you wanna listen to any previous episodes, you can find them and all of park cast shows on your favorite podcast directory. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram as at par cast and on Twitter at par, cast network. Many of you have asked how you can help the show. If you enjoy the podcast, the best way to help us to leave us a five star review. During times of great strain decisions that would in times of peace, seem unthinkable. Start to seem reasonable. Like murdering a person you blame for the ills in your life. In the case of Mary Surat the person she grew to resent who she at least impart blamed for her family's woes was the president of the United States along with John Wilkes booth and several other men including her own son. She helped to plan and carry out the assassination of ABRAHAM LINCOLN today will dive into the life of Mary Surat before she became one of the most controversial women in American history. Next week will explore her role in the Lincoln assassination and the ensuing trial that caused Mary her life. While we obviously could never condone her actions, and it's difficult to truly dive into the psyche of a woman who lived over one hundred and fifty years ago. We'll try to understand how a mother widow and business owner could grow to resent the press. Didn't so much that she eventually conspired to murder him. Mary Surat was born Mary. Elizabeth Jenkins in may either eighteen twenty or eighteen twenty three. But for the purposes of this podcast, we're going to assume she was born in eighteen twenty three. She was born at probably one of the most exciting times in United States history only forty years after the American revolution had ended and just forty years before the civil war would tear the young country into by all accounts. Her childhood was relatively normal one for the time period. She and her two brothers grew up on their families, tobacco plantation, which was worked by slaves when their father died unexpectedly in eighteen twenty five. Mary's mother inherited the property from her husband and ran it with the help of her sons. The with isn't clear exactly how successful the plantation was. The family was doing well enough to afford to send Mary to the academy for young ladies. A Roman Catholic girls boarding school in a nearby town. When she turned twelve in eighteen thirty five. Even though both of Mary's parents -scribed at least in name to Protestantism. Catholic schools often offered higher quality educations than were available elsewhere at the time. The school and religion also seemed to speak to marry an away. Her parents lacks take on. Religion did not within two years of beginning, her education at the Catholic school fourteen year old. Mary had converted to Roman Catholicism. She chose Maria Eugenia as her baptism. UIL name. Mary would remain a practicing Catholic for the rest of her life. In eighteen thirty nine. The school closed and sixteen year old Mary was sent home to Waterloo Maryland where she met and began courting a twenty six year old man named John Harrison Surat. It was very common in the early eighteen hundreds for men to be on average five years older than their wives. While the age gap between Mary and John was a bit wider than average. There were bigger factors that made John an odd choice of partner. He was known to be a bit of a drinker and had already fathered a child out of wedlock before meeting Mary. This would have been a serious red flag in the early eighteen hundreds. He was also an orphan who had been raised by a wealthy couple from Washington DC. His adoptive parents had biological children of their own. So he didn't expect to inherit much if any money or land from them for Mary, the educated daughter of a plantation owner. This wasn't exactly marrying up. Regardless after a year of courting seventeen year old, Mary convinced John to convert to Catholicism. The couple married in a Catholic service in August eighteen forty for at least the first three years of their marriage from eighteen forty to eighteen forty three. The couple enjoyed a honeymoon period in their new home. John bought and worked a mill, which provided a decent income when Mary was eighteen. She gave birth to their first son, Isaac in eighteen forty one. Their daughter, Anna followed in eighteen forty three by eighteen forty three. John had amassed enough money to buy two hundred thirty six acres of land from his adoptive father. Later in the year, he was able to purchase an additional one hundred nineteen acres after his father's death. The land was situated right on the Washington DC Maryland border and should have provided the family with a hefty amount of equity and security. Unfortunately, the couple never seems to have done much with the property which is unusual. Considering John had experience working on his family's farm growing up and had been successfully operating a mill for at least three years. This may have had something to do with an inability to afford slaves. At that time. It was common practice to purchase sleeve workers for your land because there was simply too much work on a large farm for one person or even a small family to do. John Surat may have been waiting until he could afford slaves to work the land, but other obligations got in the way shortly after the birth of their third and final child. John junior in eighteen forty four. There was added pressure from John's aging, adoptive mother to help her run the family farm, which was located inside the borders of Washington DC. It's unclear if this land was attached to the land he had bought from his father. John Mary and the family moved in with John's mother in eighteen forty five. She died on the few months later, leaving the remainder of his family's lands farms and seven slaves to John. It's unclear why she chose John as the sole inheritor of the family's estate instead of dividing among the children. But it was surely convenient for John and Mary. Unfortunately, the sizeable inheritance didn't bring the family closer together. John had always been a drinker, but his drinking escalated obscenely while he tried to run the family's farm between eighteen forty five and eighteen fifty one, he accumulated more and more debts he couldn't pay. He grew angry and violent toward Marian their children in letters. John wrote to his friends. He openly blamed his wife for his debts and his failures as a farmer to escape John's drinking and temper Mary turned her focus to fundraising for the building. A church nearby John openly resented this activity. He had converted to Catholicism, but he didn't understand or appreciate Mary's devotion only about ten years into their marriage, things were already going downhill. It seemed only a matter of time before the couple would go their separate ways. In eighteen fifty one six years after Marian, John inherited the family estate smoke woke the Surat family in the dead of night, John Mary and their three children rushed outside as flames, began to engulf their home by morning. There was nothing left, but Ashish as they checked the slave quarters, they discovered that one of their seven slaves had disappeared during the night, possibly setting the blaze to distract from his escape with the families. Farm burned to the ground. There was no reason left for Mary to keep living with her abusive alcoholic husband. John moved to Virginia to work for the orange and Alexandria, railroad while twenty eight year old, Mary happily spirited her children away and moved in with one of her cousins near her family's plantation in Waterloo Maryland. John, however, couldn't let the new arrangement stand for long. It's unclear whether he genuinely wanted to reunite with his family or. If the public shame of losing his property and family spurred him into action. But by the end of eighteen fifty three just two years after the blaze, John was taking steps to restore his wealth and win Mary back. He purchased two hundred acres of land at the epicenter of county traffic and used it to build an inn and tavern. Anyone who wanted to travel north into Washington DC had to pass along the road through his property, ensuring the Inwood never want for customers. The property was a quick success, but still it wasn't enough to reassure thirty year old Mary that John had changed drunken ways. She didn't want to go back to him only to once again, endure his angry tantrums, but there were two problems. Firstly, Mary couldn't stay at her cousin's home for much longer with three young mouths to feed her family was simply too much of a burden for her friends and family to support. The second problem was that as a married woman in nineteenth century America, her legal rights began and ended with her marriage certificate. Before we get into this. Please note, Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she's done a lot. Out of research for the show. Thank Sammy a massive study conducted by the university of Wisconsin. Law school tells us that marriage in the nineteenth century was legally and socially much different from our idea of marriage today in the nineteenth century, when a man and woman entered into a marriage, they were seeing legally and culturally as a single entity with certain expectations and duties placed on them as a couple no matter how they decided to live within the marriage. Essentially, they were no longer to separate people, but an organization permanently recognized by the state and judges in law enforcement were encouraged to enforce those legal and cultural rules upon married couples. If married couples were found to be living apart, for example, the courts could order them to live together. Again, divorce was extremely expensive and difficult to obtain, especially since Mary was a Catholic and would require additional permission from the church to divorce. Her husband. John knew this and he knew. As long as Mary was his wife. He had a great deal of legal leverage over her. Mary tried to move back onto what remained of John's family's property instead of moving into the new tavern with him. But as the legal owner of the estate, John sold the land she was living on finally, forcing Mary and the children to move back in with him in December of eighteen fifty three Mary didn't know it yet. But this was a decision that would change American history. We'll get back to the Surat families reunion after a quick break. Are you ready for the newest show coming to the park cast network. It's called hostage, and it tells the complicated stories behind the world's most intense hostage negotiations. Hosts Carter and Irma examined tactics used by the FBI's crisis, negotiation unit world governments, and even hostages. Parents highlighting the moments where things went tragically wrong as well as techniques that miraculously saved lives. Each episode explores the negotiations hidden from the public eye and the complex webs of movement needed to extract hostages safely in these life or death circumstances checkout the trailer. Some criminals use guns. Some use explosives. The worst criminals us hostages. One wrong word one wrong move, and the hostages are dead. Hostage. The newest podcast from par cast tells electrifying crime stories, culminating in intense life or death negotiations don't wait subscribe to hostage. Now, wherever you listen to podcasts, Vanessa, and I have some exciting news for you starting. Now you can listen to female criminals episodes that are older than six months completely ad free exclusively on Stitcher premium. We're always looking for ways to improve the listener experience. We found an amazing partner in Stitcher to bring you episodes. Ad free, six months after they're released. Again, this will only affect episodes older than six months. Nothing else will change. We'll still be releasing new female criminals episodes where ever you listen to podcasts for a free month trial go to Stitcher, premium dot com. Slash par cast and use promo code par cast that's Stitcher, premium dot com. Slash. Par cast and use promo code podcast. Now back to the story. In December eighteen fifty three Mary Surat and her three children moved back in with her husband, John in his new tavern in outside Washington DC setting aside the underhanded manipulative, legal tactics. John used to lure his family back. He seems to have attempted to do right by them once they were living together again with the remaining money from the sale of his family's land. John surprised Mary on December sixth, eighteen fifty three by buying a four thousand dollar townhouse at six o four h. street in Washington DC. It was a pretty grand gesture on John's part, four thousand dollars in eighteen fifty. Three would be about a hundred and thirty thousand today. No small sum considering the fire had destroyed almost all of their wealth two years before in the beginning, they use the townhouse as a second home in part to show off their wealth and to establish themselves as socialites in DC's inner circles. But John told Mary that he eventually hoped to us. It as a boarding house to bring in another source of income in eighteen fifty four. John expanded the tavern on his land into a hotel, which he called Surat's hotel and installed a post office in the tavern. By the end of the year, his businesses had attracted at least twelve families to settle in the area allowing John to officially designate the little blurb as village, which he called Surat spill. John became Surat's villes first postmaster a position that was quite respectable in its time in the late eighteen hundreds people often gathered at post offices to gossip and play cards, and the new post offices proximity to the tavern and hotel insured more customers for those businesses to John and Mary Surat had positioned themselves right at the center of the growing community. Many of the customers that visited their businesses were pro slavery and advocated protecting the way of life for southern Americans, which the Surat's consider themselves to be in the ten years. Leading up to the civil war. The Suraj families properties surely became a hotbed of discussion about slavery state's rights and succession. John used some of the profits from his new businesses to send their children now between the ages of eleven and fourteen to Catholic boarding schools and obvious attempt to reassure thirty one year old Mary that he had changed his ways for good between eighteen fifty four eighteen fifty seven, John expanded his business ventures even further to include granaries stables and tobacco curing houses. Things were looking up for the Surat family. Unfortunately, the stress of the new businesses reintroduced the pressures that had driven John to drink heavily before now, thirty four year old. Mary often found him so drunk. He could barely be woken with John out of commission. The running of all of these businesses then fell to marry in the families. Six slaves. Mary was now responsible for running a hotel tavern boarding house and several other businesses while still keeping house and raising three children. In one lighter, Mary implored a local priest to help her negotiate the tuition at her children's boarding schools. In her own words, she told him quote, as you know, dear father, it will all have to come through and by my own management and quote, she was on her own with no help incite debts began to accumulate forcing John to sell half of his landholdings to pay them off. He also sold four of the remaining slaves for petty cash. An act that was quite embarrassing at the time in Maryland society. John's drinking became so bad that he was seen in their tavern day and night on drunken display for the entire town to see by eighteen fifty eight thirty five year old. Mary began reaching out to local priests to help her shake some sense into her husband. She told them in confidence that John was never sober anymore, and she was embarrassed to visit friends. Isolating her further from the community research conducted by the university of Texas at Austin, has shown that the suppression of emotion, particularly repeated or cultural suppressions or those tied to a sense of moral or social duty can build up over time leading to an increase in aggression and even motion outbursts. This is something scientists refer to as the ego depletion effect. The longer a person has to repress how they feel the bigger the resulting outburst may be. This might go along way toward explaining the inner workings of a woman. Like Mary Surat, who had a family to protect and children to raise her life was a constant struggle as she attempted to keep her family together and her husband's businesses afloat during a time of deep social unrest. The civil war didn't Secondly spring up overnight. It was the final result of decades of mistrust, fear and dissatisfaction across the United States as evidenced by her later crimes. Mary was surely feeling the pressure of her turbulent deeply divided cultural atmosphere in eighteen sixty John and Mary's daughter seventeen year old. Anna was nearly finished with education at Catholic boarding school and her sixteen year old son. John junior had enrolled in Saint Charles college. Mary was forced to auction off moorland to pay for their educations and to keep their townhouse in Washington DC. The constant upkeep of the family's empire without her husband's help was starting to exhaust Mary at thirty. Seven years old Mary was entering what was considered an advanced age for the time and her family's future worried her constantly, a bigger crisis was looming just beyond the horizon for the strained family. A young hopeful lawyer in Illinois was beginning to make political waves as he traveled to New York to speak about a new America without slavery. On may ninth eighteen sixty ABRAHAM LINCOLN received his first endorsement to run for president of the United States. He was elected and inaugurated less than a year. Later on March fourth eighteen sixty one as news, trickled south to Maryland. It sent shivers through the spines of many Marylanders who relied on unpaid slave labor to maintain their fortunes and businesses. Thirty seven year old, Mary Surat, and her family were slave owning confederate sympathizers or in her own words, southern through and through for most white southerners. The moral atrocity of slavery was outweighed by the apparent necessity of slave labor to maintain their economic system. From Mary's perspective, the anti-slavery Lincoln's victory threatened their entire way of life. It came at the worst possible time for the family when they were in dire financial straits down to two slaves and selling off pieces of land. To keep their businesses afloat. Only three days after Lincoln's inauguration on March. Seventh eighteen sixty one Mary's nineteen year old son, Isaac enlisted in the newly formed confederate army and moved to Texas eventually becoming a cavalryman and fighting on horseback. It was a decision that would fully thrust the rest of the Surat's into the southern 'cause transforming political opinion into a family wide personal crusade. It seems necessary at this point to acknowledge that children learn their racial biases and political leanings from their parents. In the case of the Surat's who over tely identified themselves as pro southern in the years leading up to the civil war. It's clear that the reinforcement of owning slaves and living with parents who raise them to favor. The south led to is decision to fight for the confederacy. A two thousand twelve study at Harvard found that children learn to favor the political beliefs in racism of their. Parents at as early as three or four years old. Previous research had suggested that racism takes hold in Atta leci-. But this new Harvard study suggests that racism in particular is a very straightforward bias for parents to pass down to their young children. Political beliefs, however, are more of a mixed bag. Separate studies carried out by Cambridge and Stanford Heff found that while growing up with political parents, turn children into adults that cared about politics. It didn't guarantee that those children would agree with their parents, politics. The researchers found that the children raised by politically active parents sought out political conversations when they later left home, any type of political conversations. No matter the viewpoint. Essentially, the kids went looking for the same type of conversations. They'd had it home regardless of the content. As a result, they often became more receptive to different ideologies and opinions. In fact, the researchers found that the more intensely. Parents tried to turn their children into political mini me's. The more likely their kids were to rebel against their ideologies after leaving home. However, in the nineteenth century families often continued to live together long after children had grown into adults opportunities for the Surat children to be exposed to different ideologies were rare. It was much easier for them to accept the confederate viewpoint. That Lincoln's election was a danger to their way of life a little over a month. After Lincoln's election on April twelfth, eighteen sixty one. The southern United States split from the north beginning. One of the bloodiest wars in American history. Maryland was considered a border state positioned on the border between northern and southern territory. Its strategic position. Next to Washington DC meant that despite the overwhelming majority of the state citizens being pro confederacy, the union forcibly prevented Maryland from seceding soldiers. Were encamped there throughout the duration of the war and Marylanders were often forced to swear loyalty oaths before they were allowed to shop in certain places or vote in mid-year elections, even suspicions of disloyalty to the union could lose them, their jobs and their property. So many in Maryland began aiding the south any discreet way they could by harboring confederate agents, passing letters back and forth, or providing information. They overheard Mary's tavern and hotel became a halfway stop for confederate agents, including Thomas Nelson, Conrad one of confederate president Jefferson Davis's personal spies. Some historians wonder of Mary knew about the people who pass through businesses, let alone spoke with them since very little of Mary's surviving correspondence suggests she was participating in the confederate cause, however, it's difficult to imagine that she could have remained oblivious to the confederate agents frequenting her business, and she was certainly aware. That her seventeen year old son, John junior left college to become a corier for the confederate secret service in July eighteen sixty one. He was essentially a smuggler moving back and forth across the secession lines with money supplies and messages. Shortly after that, three hundred union soldiers marched into Surat Ville union agents on the hunt for disloyal border state. Citizens came knocking on Mary's door despite investigations into her tavern and hotel. There scare tactics didn't seem to work. The confederate spy network remained intact in Surat Ville throughout the war. The pressures on Mary both politically and as a business owner would rise even further in August eighteen sixty two. When her husband John died from a stroke at the age of forty nine, John junior, succeeded him as postmaster of the serrato post office on September tenth eighteen sixty two only a few days later. The union agents return to. Camp out in ceramics Ville firing nearby post masters for disloyalty, John junior escape scrutiny for almost a year. Until he tried to apply for a job at the union department of war in August, eighteen sixty three, possibly as part of a confederate espionage scheme. His application, dragged his family's loyalties under federal scrutiny at precisely the wrong time. His name had previously come up on a list of potential confederate quarriers as he travelled between Maryland and Virginia. Often, this was just circumstantial evidence, but the mere suggestion of disloyalty was enough to lose him his position as postmaster for disloyalty in November, eighteen sixty three causing even more financial problems for the Surat family. John juniors, contributions to the family were humbled to selling vegetables by the roadside debts were piling up more of the family's slaves fled north. It's curious to note that at the start of the civil war, slavery was still legal in Maryland, even though it was technically a northern state. By the time ABRAHAM LINCOLN was inaugurated. Seven states had already seceded from the union. Lincoln ran on a platform that supported freezing the practice of slavery as it existed, but barred, further expansion, two new states. He hoped this compromise would appease the south while eventually allowing slavery to die out on its own. Of course, the south saw the policy as a compromise that would strangle their economy over a longer period of time instead of just beheading it quickly. And Mary's family and businesses were certainly feeling that pressure, especially as their slaves fled. The resentment, the family already felt for the union was growing. Mary began to wonder if Lincoln had never been elected, perhaps their lives might have never fallen so low, but it did nothing to dwell on regrets of the past. Instead Mary turned her attention to possibilities for the future a future without that meddlesome northern troublemaker, ABRAHAM LINCOLN. Then we'll take a closer look at Mary's plans after a quick break. Now back to the story by eighteen sixty four forty one year old, Mary, Sarah's family had been brought to the brink of financial ruin by her late husband's bad debts, the loss of John junior's position as postmaster and the civil war which sought to end the free slave labor. They depended on for their business and livelihood as the bloody civil war raged across swabs of the American east. Lincoln was also busy with his reelection campaign in eighteen sixty four, many on both sides of the Mason. Dixon line thought that the sheer brutality of the war would sway many voters to turn away from ABRAHAM LINCOLN that year. But the combined effect of the Union's victory in the battle of mobile bay in August eighteen sixty four and their capture of the city of Atlanta the next month secured Lincoln and. Support to win re-election a landslide victory on November eighth eighteen sixty four that same year Maryland declared slavery illegal. Finally, stripping the Surat family of its last unpaid laborers making it almost impossible to keep the various family businesses running and Surat's Ville. Mary began making plans on December. First eighteen sixty four. Mary moved her family and belongings out of Surat's Ville for good and into their townhouse in Washington d. c. she rented out her tavern and hotel to a former policeman named John Lloyd and began operating a boarding house out of her townhouse while she and her family still live there. On December twenty. Third eighteen sixty four. John Sarah junior met John Wilkes booth through their mutual friend. Doctor Samuel Mudd. All three men were sympathetic to the south's plight and booth like John junior was a member of the confederate secret service. John junior was soon pulled into booths plans to kidnap president, Lincoln booth hope to hold him ransom in exchange for the release of key confederate prisoners of war when booth and his co-conspirators needed a safe place to meet John junior, brought them home to marries boarding house. We should pause here to reiterate the controversy surrounding Mary Surat's role in the assassination of ABRAHAM LINCOLN, even today. Historians are still torn as to the extent of Mary's participation in the plot to kill Lincoln. Many people believe her an innocent bystander blind to the political rebellion that happened to be planned under her roof. Many. Others think that wall. She knew what was being discussed in her boardinghouse. She herself never played any major role in the murder of ABRAHAM LINCOLN. There are others, of course, who believes she knew and participated in everything. Historians, Kate Larsen, ROY Chamblee have noted that the choice to leave Surat Ville and moved to Washington DC was an unusual decision for Mary Surat to make since living in the city would have cost the family far more money than staying in Surat Ville. Other historians such as Jones. Conus have suggested that this proves Mary Surat's motivation for the move wasn't purely financial. But instead it was a strategic step in a confederate plot unfolding within the Surat household. Another piece of evidence suggesting Mary at least knew about the threat against the president occurred in January, eighteen sixty five while still working as a courier and spy for the confederates John junior transferred everything left to him after his father's death. To his mother's name, including titles and properties. If John junior had expressed plans to join the confederate army where his life would be endangered during battle, this decision might have made sense, but he had no intention of becoming a soldier. Instead, many historians believe he gave Mary his inheritance to protect her from a law that allows the government to seize the property and fortune of traitors. If they're arrested, there's no way of knowing whether Mary understood the implications of her sons transfer of property, but it's possible. She put it together and surmise that her son was in danger of being arrested for treason. Another unresolved matter is the peculiar nature of the tenants. Mary kept in her DC townhouse, Mary told friends and family. She would only accept border. She knew or recommendations from friends. She trusted. She could have done this to protect herself from union scrutiny since an untrustworthy border could reveal her confederate sympathies to the authorities, but many of the people she allowed to stay. In her house weren't just any southern sympathizers. They were friends, John junior made while working for the confederate secret service George at Surat and Lewis Powell both co conspirators, John Wilkes booth, and John Surat junior in their plot to kidnap Lincoln stayed in Mary's townhouse at various times throughout the winter and spring of eighteen sixty five. Another co conspirator David Herold also visited from meetings and while John Wilkes booth never lived in the townhouse, he visited frequently Mary's twenty two year old daughter. Anna was a numbered with booth. He was after all an enormously popular actor and celebrity at the time in an twist of fate, ABRAHAM LINCOLN was an enormous fan of booth as an actor and tried at various times to invite booth to the White House for dinner booth declined every time. He was too busy planning the kidnapping of his biggest fan. The plan to kidnap Lincoln stemmed from a recent decision by union general. Ulysses. S. grant to stop exchanging prisoners of war with the confederacy by denying the south, it's men. Eventually they would run out of soldiers when booth learned that Lincoln was going to attend to play at an area hospital on March seventeenth. Eighteen sixty five booth devised a plot to grab the president as he was leaving. It was not uncommon in the eighteen hundreds for presidents to travel without security. Booth believed he would simply be able to approach Lincoln stick a gun in his back and force him into a carriage. They could then use him as a bargaining chip to force the north to release southern prisoners in anticipation of the kidnapping, John junior, and the other co conspirators. Some of whom were living in Mary's boarding house at the time, hit supplies, weapons, and amunition in Mary's tavern in Surat Seville when March seventeenth finally came booth, hit by the play venue for hours poised to strike as Lincoln left in yet. Another odd twist of fate. However. Lincoln decided to skip the play to attend a ceremony at the national hotel where booth himself was living at the time, like ships passing in the night. The missed opportunity was a terrible blow to the conspirators. And then on April third eighteen sixty five, Robert Elise rendered the confederate army effectively ending the civil war for good all the booth. Mary and John juniors, hopes and dreams of a southern victory evaporated in a single day. Even worse Mary's oldest son, Isaac had been in Texas fighting for the confederates since the beginning of the war and Mary hadn't heard from him in months. There was no way of knowing if he had survived or whether confederate soldiers would be executed. Now that the war was over eight days later on April eleventh. Lincoln gave a speech at the White House both to celebrate the Union's victory and to announce his intentions to seek voting rights for freed black men across America. John Wilkes booth fumed. As he listened. He was furious that award that had cost an estimated six hundred twenty thousand lives was being celebrated as a victory for anyone standing in the crowd, watching the president speak booth turned to his co-conspirator. Lewis Powell and told him to shoot Lincoln dead on the spot. Powell refused afraid of the crowd's response. But boots wore that soon. He would run the president through psychologist and philosopher Eric from was among the first to coined the term group narcissism in which a person begins to identify so strongly with the group. He idealize is that he becomes aggressively protective of it to an obscene level. He is the group. So any resistance to what the group believes in is taken as a personal attack against him and all he holds dear irrational anger, hatred and violence against the groups perceived enemies seem justified. Exactly why booth grew so angry is debatable. Some historians believe booth originally chose to defend the south because of his fierce rivalry with his older brother, Edwin booth not to make light, but Edwin and John Wilkes booth were like the Hemsworth brothers of their age. Edwin booth was also an actor and by the eighteen sixties his star far out, shown that of his older brother, John research done by Nora to tone the booth families, letters and journals has revealed that the brothers were locked in a fierce battle against one another throughout their entire lives. As Edwin Starr rose. He became something of a poster boy for the union effort. When John's acting career stagnated in comparison to his brother, he committed to making a name for himself elsewhere in the confederacy. His personal narcissism eventually gave way to group narcissism. And eventually he brought John junior and Mary Surat into the fold of that narcissism. While Edwin was a star, John Wilkes booth was known to turn heads in a way few others could. He was a magnetic speaker and his rhetoric called others to listen. Other historians. However, note that booth was a white supremacist an entire war fought to end. The enslavement of African Americans might have been enough to fuel his group narcissism, and that of his co conspirators at the time. Many southern loyalists in the border states were looking for someone anyone to follow who captured the southern spirit. They feared. They had lost after Lincoln. Speech booth and Powell went to Mary's townhouse in the streets outside her door. Thousands of people were celebrating the defeat of the south and the end of the civil war. But the townhouses curtains were drawn tightly against the sun. Mary was in mourning devastated by the south's defeat and surrender that is until booth and Powell walked through the door. Booth gathered his co conspirators together and swore that there would be vengeance against the man. They blamed for the south's defeat the details of the conversation and whether or not Mary was involved in the meeting are unknown. What we do know is that John junior went north to New York to deliver messages to confederate agents while Mary hastened into her carriage and roads straight for her tavern in Surat Ville. She told her tenants that she was writing to Surat spill to collect a debt owed to her while in Surat Ville. However, she told John Lloyd, the policeman who was renting the tavern to get the family. Shooting irons ready to be picked up three days. Later on April fourteenth booth visited the theatre where the play our American cousin was performing and learned that ABRAHAM LINCOLN would attend that evening booth saw as the opportunity of a lifetime. He could finally correct the mistake he had made the month before when his kidnapping plot went awry booth left the theatre and went directly to marries DC townhouse. He spoke with her privately giving her a pair of Benach Yalies to take to her tavern and Surat's Ville booth also told his co, conspirators the details of his plan while he went to kill Lincoln at the theater, George at Surat would target vice president Andrew Johnson. While Lewis Powell struck out at secretary of State, William h Seward together, they could kill three high ranking officials in a single evening and throw the government into chaos Mary road back to Surat spill and drop the Benach yours. Off with John Lloyd repeating her request for him to get the shooting irons ready. There would be a death that night. And if all went according to booth and Mary's hopes the south might just rise again. Thanks again for tuning into female criminals. Next week, we'll see how Mary Surat earned her infamous position as the first woman ever executed by the US federal government. You can find more female criminals and all of our cast podcasts on apple podcasts, Stitcher, Google play, cast box tune in or your favorite podcast directory. Many of you have asked how to help the show and if you enjoy the show, the best way to help is to leave a five star review. We'll see you next time, female criminals was created by max Cutler is a production of Cutler media and is part of the park cast network. It is produced by Maxon, Ron Cutler sound design by Kerry Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul. Moller additional production assistance by Carly Madden and Maggie admire female criminals is written by Jordan trip here and stars. Sammy ni- and Vanessa Richardson. Thanks for listening. Don't forget that hostage debut on October eighteenth with new episodes, released every Thursday search hostage, wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe now as promised. Here's a brief sneak peek of the first episode of hostage on the kidnapping of Patty, Hearst, we hope you enjoy it and be sure to tell all your friends about it. Patricia. Hearst was trying to make sense of art history. She stared down at her textbook drying to ignore her fiance, Steve, who studied economics next to her on the sofa. She tried to shake the feeling that something wasn't right between them that she wasn't happy with her comfortable housewife, existence that she didn't have friends at Berkeley that she might not really love him focus. She thought midterms were coming soon. Steve answered the door before Patricia could warn him not to last week. She'd worried someone might be following her. You never knew it was a strange girl at the door. She was agitated. She'd hit a car in the garage into the complex and wanted to borrow the phone, angry and disgusted. Patricia went to the door. The dumb girl probably hit Patricia ze m. g. roadster she'd give her a piece of her. Two men burst into the house and the girl grabbed Patricia, be quiet and nobody'll get hurt. The girl pointed an automatic pistol at Patricia 's face before Patricia could scream. Again, one of the men was straddling her on the floor foods, pressed against the linoleum. She could hear Steve crying, take anything you want anything you want. He said, Patricia tried to get free, but the man yelled at her to keep her head down and gagged her intruders, blindfolded, Patricia, and dragged her to the door. Steve continued screaming in complete shock, Patricia, worry. They were stabbing him. She spit out her gag and screamed bloody murder praying. The neighbors would hear the neighbors heard, but the men hit Patricia in the head and dragged her outside. They threw her in the trunk of a car and drove off. It was approaching nine thirty PM on Monday February fourth, nineteen, seventy four and Patricia Campbell. Hearst had just been taken hostage.

John Mary Mary Surat John ABRAHAM LINCOLN Surat Washington DC John Wilkes Surat family United States president John Surat Mary Surat John junior Maryland America Vanessa Richardson confederate army Surat Ville murder
33: How to Generate Business No Matter the Product or Service with Pat Fenton

BiggerPockets Business Podcast

46:02 min | 11 months ago

33: How to Generate Business No Matter the Product or Service with Pat Fenton

"Welcome to the bigger pockets business. PODCAST show number thirty three so before you start thinking well if I had the money if I can just just let borrow that money will go bill burns so fast your how to spend if you don't have the process and distribution salesmanship out I Welcome to a real world. Mba from the school of hard knocks. Were entrepreneurs reveal what it really really takes to make it whether you're already in business or you're on your way there this show is for you. This is bigger pockets business How's it going everybody? I M J Scott I am your co host for the bigger markets business. PODCAST and I am here again this week with my beautiful beautiful co host. Mrs Carol Scott Today Carol out doing so great honey. Thank you so much. This time of year right is just so much fun. It's a challenge in business because people are focused on other things but at the same time people in general are excited. They're happy and it makes doing business. That much more our pleasure so it's a really great time to be doing great stuff. Yes I agree and we have a really great show for everybody today. We have a guy named Pat. Fenton here sure he is a CEO. He's a coach. He's a mentor. He's a marketing expert and he has a ton of great information to share with us today. A He is transparent about some of his huge failures early on in his career and how he turned those failures into major successes moving forward. He's got an amazing amazing outlook on life on business on sales on marketing. He teaches us how to overcome adversity and how to build our own successful businesses is it. It's just it's great from a mine. Chef said perspective from a tactical and and taking action perspective. PAT has just a ton of amazing being stuff to share with us. There is a ton of gold in this episode. And I'm positive you guys are GonNa love it so if you want to get more information about pat if you WANNA we get more information about the stuff we discussed in this episode you can check out our show notes at bigger pockets dot com slash Biz. Show thirty three. That's bigger bigger. POCKETS DOT com slash Biz. Show thirty three okay now without any further. Do let's jump into our discussion with Pat Fen. Let's welcome impact to the show. How you doing today Pat then tastic? How you guys doing today? Excellent we are so looking forward to talking with you. You have such a a great database such a great arsenal of knowledge in skills for new entrepreneurs in how to just make their business rock in we cannot wait to dig into all of the knowledge. Upset you have to offer so thank you so much for joining us. Well thanks for having me. I really appreciate that anything. I can do to help entrepreneurs I'm all about that so good to have good to be your good. Have you guys awesome awesome. Thank you so much pat. So let's go ahead and get started so pat like so many of our listeners on the show you've had your hand in real estate and you've also been an entrepreneur. You're that's a really great blend. So let's give our listeners a little bit of an idea of who you are and how you you you had this amazing journey to get where you are. Today it'd become the sales expert in entrepreneurial coach that you are. Yeah so I appreciate that. My my heart was always in athletics. I played sports in Nice School and Played College. Football really love the game of football and loved coach. You know once I got a football started coaching the little kids and that was prodded to become. I'm a schoolteacher and a football coach and after jumping up the other coach coaching was cars. And and look at that lifestyle. Mike Makes Fifteen grand a year for shift in about sixteen times or I can do something with coaching. And maybe put it into a professional earn money. I wanted to earn and do what I love to do cell so I was selling cellular. Telephones and guy referred to a business coach and I've always believed in coaching and development and he started started teaching me about leadership management about sally sales training sales skills and a a really took him and in saw some success with him and actually left to go to work with him and talk about entrepreneurship here. I am selling success and I have yet experienced any business. Success Straight Commission. No help offense just vibrate in in you know he would kill type thing so early on. I knew that I was an entrepreneur. I've always been attracted to situations situations or something was broke or didn't exist at all and I wanted to actually put myself in a situation to be the guy that could actually turn it around or make an influence on it. That's what I'm really driven by which I think all entrepreneurs would agree that you have to have that if you want to be an entrepreneur in about six years into mentoring with him I was given an opportunity cartoon to become a platform speaker which ideally ultimately is a little kid with something I always wanted to do but when you go to career day. You don't usually say motivational motivational speaker. Both that you talked to somebody about so. It's kind of interesting how that all happened. And then I was an independent contractor speaker in at that point really really. I had the life because I was in my mid twenties and too late twenties and I would go leave on a Tuesday on speak on Wednesday for four hours. Go to another city speak on Thursday for four hours in just made an incredible income doing that and again. I was an independent contractor speaker so I didn't have fulfillment. I went home when I was home. I was all when I was on the road. I was on the road in the great lifestyle especially for somebody in their in their late. Twenty S and behold. I started diving into was really the back end and and a really mattered a lot to me that whatever I was telling what whatever I was representing had had an impact. Somebody's lives I really cared about. The people and I didn't feel as though that the people that I was surrounded. By that we're actually doing the fulfillment of the things I was up there preaching. We're really doing a good enough job to provide the value that that I really expected wanted from those is so I decided to create my own company and create my own back end and in staff at in in do a seminar model in the real estate in the mortgage industry and away we went. We saw amazing success. Everything was predictable. Duplicate able we knew how many people had had to be contacted how may people it'd be fouled up with to see at least one hundred fifty people in every room. Then I did. Ninety six year does a lot and low. Behold everything's good big house lots of fancy cars boats and everything else and then inevitable happened happened where we literally thought. We are infallible real estate market crash. Pardon me for voice crack of battling a little sinus infections. I hope I sound okay. Okay Oh problem so in any in any way that was really the first experience for me a failure and I'm not talking about a little bit of failure. I'm talking about I. At that point. I had three kids in infant and literally the millions of dollars that we had acquired was all gone and we had to fire forty five employees building and walk out the door and at that moment really is really a defining moment. Where you I have two options you can scratch and claw your way out or you actually three options? You go get a job or you can just sit in a corner somewhere and be in. Play the victim enroll so it was time to just dig in and low behold there was some valuable things I learned along the way number one that was always trading hours as for dollars we never built a subscription based business. That was a big mistake. We never offered things to people that came to our seminars in purchase right so maybe they didn't have quite it kind of money for package a but you know they have enough money for package beat and get them going and we never did that just because we were we were making so much money that it it. We were not paying attention to the fact that we could be making a lot more in helping a lot more people than there was just being decisive. When you see the economy chef shaft I mean granted didn't take people by Storm? We weren't the only victims of that that meltdown but there is something that we could have seen much sooner. That would enable us to act. Doc You follow me so I wanNA step back because in your store you mentioned that you had a mentor. The kind of helped you get to the next level and I know a lot of people in our audience are very interested in how they can find a mentor. How they can find somebody who can help them get from wherever they are now to the next level or the next level or the next level? So what tips would you have for our audience our listeners for how to go about finding a mentor how how to go about vetting a mentor and making sure that the mentors enters right for you great question. There's an old saying that says when the student is ready to teach Will appear right and it comes from really Julie being in writing to be mentored and you will attract individual in your life. You know. Mentorship is not something that you ought to have. It's it's in my opinion an economic necessity to have in your life not just in business but in other areas of your life as well I I met my mentor in really a very short period of time that we knew that he was the right guy for me but the advice I would give the people. Is You know people want to help people. But when you have to really show how bad you want it to people because basically what I describes a mentor. Summit has specialized knowledge in the area. That you want to excel it. They've been there. They've done on that. They carry that wisdom. And you want access to that in people generally genuinely want to give back to entrepreneurs they want but they don't want to waste their time with somebody they don't believe they're gonNA they're gonNA do it. They're not asking. Follow up questions and just being digging deeper and deeper and deeper right and I like it when when I see young entrepreneurs or as they come up to me and say I've got a couple of questions for it. Would you mind you know. Tell me how you got here. What did you do so number? ONE IS V ready number to refer around two people that have that now. Who Do you know that that is really good at this and then call them and tell them your story and tell why you want to meet with? You'll know when you have the right one because that person will want to actually follow up with you in they're going to want to spend more time with you and in the seed themselves. They see themselves. Mike just you so if there are qualities about you that mentor looks and says that was me twenty years ago. They're going to take you into their way. That's excellent absolutely awesome. So at this this point you have decades of experience in sales many of our listeners are not only knew it sales but a lot of them are probably fearful of selling. They don't know how to sell. They're scared to approach somebody if you were to give some advice to people that are early in their entrepreneurial career people that don't have any expertise in selling but they can kind of get them moving in that in that direction and kind of get them started with sales. What are some of the tips you would give to somebody like that? Yeah great question first and foremost. I'm a baseball fan. And we go to COOPERSTOWN NEW YORK. There's statues of people that will remain in that building or or ever and those headers struck out bad out got out seven times in other words they hit a average of three hundred and and they made it to the hall of fame in there forever. Recognize that people have to understand. There's no even if you know. Five percent ten percent twenty percent thirty percents people do say yes. You who in the lion's share Dole that there's incredible wealth Delta really small numbers right now that being said that's Kinda personal development side side of things. That's the first thing I'll tell you. Stop listening to the radio. Stop watching politics dive into yourself. And if you're not sure preneurs don't don't do that. It's a huge mistake but if I were to help if I were advising in entrepreneur right now the very first thing I would do is say you have to start with your personal goals. What is your driving force? What really are you doing this for? Why so I would have them great goals and had them create a business plan and then that's in that plan and marketing plan there's gotta be systems and processes that got to be created okay whether it's online offline marketing traditional marketing? Whatever you decide you're going to? What is your marketing plan? Got To develop systems for that in within those systems. There's a thing called best practice. I've gotTA run. The system in the system is is GONNA first. Start with me running it in if I were to leave my company. I've got to go down that pathway myself first and then I can duplicate and get Outta my business in and and work on my business and have everybody else duplicate so you have to practice your words. That's the biggest thing I see. That people don't do in in sales in entrepreneurship is literally by yourself. Practice your phone script your objection handling your meeting presentation if it's online your online like sales photos video you can't practice it until you get it right you practice it until you get it wrong. That again pat. That's huge. Say That one more time. Did you know anybody can practice until they get something right but the best practice until they cannot get it wrong at huge. I and I've told all my employees over the years. Like you have to wrap this thing out so you know front words backwards left and right in the process of practicing that is the real money's made excelling on the football field by someplace Middle Linebacker for the institute I told Game Day is an expression of your preparation. Even just react on game that you just go when you have fun. It's the practice where the money's made where the successes I absolutely love that practice is where the money is made. What a great rate quote now want to step back a little bit? I WANNA go back to a discussion. We're having earlier where you talked about hall of Fame Baseball players and you mentioned that in baseball so you can literally fail seventy percent of the time you can get up to about seventy percent of the time in strikeout and you can still be one of the best on the planet and that's a really important point. Failure isn't about trying to avoid it at all cost it's really about taking it in stride and embracing it and we can be failures seventy percent of the time but still be the best in the world at what we do failure. Is that important to us entrepreneurs. Can you talk a little bit more about that. Absolutely there's a friend of mine name. Rag lives down there in Florida. Guys runs a company called rank. Makers he's coaching the industry to network marketing companies etc.. And I and I can share a story because he shares an online literally foreclosing on his home ten years ago today he makes hundreds income hundreds of two thousand dollars a month in income and you know and he said to myself when I was at my absolute rock bottom. I had that biggest challenge where I didn't know what I was GONNA do. Who I mean? My life was just literally falling apart around me he was. I'd made the decision that number one. I was GONNA do a video a day and number two to solicit at least ten nose day. I if I didn't get I was going to keep going. That's hardly get ten knows right. He said that really was the turning point in my life. I thought there was a great story. We had dinner together Naples not too long ago and he's just got a phenomenal business and you know he was a speaker like years ago and he had the talent but you know he just had to make a commitment to say you know. There's certain things are just GonNa get done and that failing if I just set my mind I've got. I'm going to actually look for failure. That tennis shifted his mindset a little bit so he didn't have the call reluctance anymore because US expecting failure and what he did was he. He kept a journal called the habit of self reflections. NASCAR my mentor taught. Is this as well. You ask yourself three questions on every call after every point what I do right what I do wrong. What am I gonNA do differently the next time or somebody through an objection at you and you just fumbled? You're wasting your really weren't ready ready for a great right down right away to overcome that objection. Prakash Akkas internalize it so the next time it comes up. It's wax off the karate kid. That's just so ready for it and you're like I got this covered and we're moving onto the next directly. Ardley that's brilliant. I think it's really cool. So Pat in your experience. What are some of the biggest mistakes? UC entrepreneurs make in regards to entrepreneurship and and what are some of the pitfalls that we as entrepreneurs really should try to avoid if at all possible. Well you're writing a business. I would say number one project low and sell high. Hi because I'm the eternal optimist I'd be like you know what we're GonNa do two million the first year that we're going to blow it out to the second week early. Do this ready to take a look at it right. You know. I would always make sure that when you write up proforma for your Biz. Always have a pro forma. What is the performance if you're listening? It's just basically numbers. What is what he project in terms the revenue we need project in terms of expenses and in particular? If you're just starting off those first three months look like you know. How do you keep the lights on and develop a little bit of traction so I would suggest make sure you have really conservative projections? Avoid that pitfall of trying to eternal optimist because we want to shoot high it. It's set low but sell high. You will number two a pitfall beat be really careful of partnerships many many times people get into partnerships. Just because because we'll be really fun to build a business with that person right there fun. It's a marriage and if you have common goals common beliefs in common interests even if you you do there's always going to be highs and lows in that Barrington. It's never ever ever GonNa be equal so many times people get involved with partnerships. Ah I believe me. I've had fifteen years just an incredible human being. Never ever look back and say it was the wrong decision to partner with a guy named Brian. Bailey is a really truly really good partner and it really worked for us. Okay but most of the time in my experiences in partnerships is that they fail so if you're going to partner make sure that they complement. Whatever it is you do? And they're bringing something to the team that can help accelerate the business. Not just there somebody you really really want to do it with as you know there. 'cause generally what it typically is logically for a lot of people that choose partnerships is a false sense of security. That they're we're GONNA get by being together. Have Somebody hold me Akaba. We'll do this together so just be mindful that okay pat so so much. Excellent a knowledge that you've you shared so far and I would love to summarise this if you had to pick from your experience three protests that people can do to consistently consistently sell more successfully no matter what their businesses. What would those pro tips be? Well answer that in two ways number one you gotta the have passion for what you're doing you have to really really have passion for what you're doing because if you don't you won't put in the time in when you really love what you do you don't mind mind spending time it late night when everybody goes to bed flipping that laptop back open and grinding a couple things out. That's needed to have to love what you do number two. You really have to. I think what problem with my solvent in really what. How can I solve that problem? Better than the competition curly is so you have to dive and find out what they're doing. And then you have to those two things will lead you to the creation of your unique value propositions and once you sake once you go to market the unique properties is not only will help you really really close better when you're in front of people after delivered so much value in that a person says yes. That sounds really good. But the other person's had kind of similar. And then you bring that billy clubs out at the end of that sales call those unique value propositions that is the slam dog and they didn't expect that when you deliver that it really really helps you close your sales and also those unique value propositions end up being the centerpiece centerpiece of all your market added. That Jay is that followed. The sales process note ever taught you the sales process here it is build rapport qualified. Who sent close in handle objections? Okay you have to build rapport because the qualify which is really the the art of selling sales are made loss. Now in the clothes were made in lost in the qualifying which is a sequence design of seat predetermined question. Should you're GonNa ask and the answer those questions you already know. You pulled them out of that consumer and that's an are four in that sequencing in the qualifies is based off. Where are you now? Where do you WANNA go? and that creates a gap. So if you ask questions I were you now who you using now. What's working? What's that working in? What is your selling? Listen carefully as I say this. That creates a chasm. It creates a gap in once. They said here. I'm here at I WANNA be point. Be Your job in the presentation in the close is to bridge that at and show how you're GonNa get them for point eight point better faster stronger than anybody else. Okay I can we. Can we step back a a little bit. Because I think this is really really important so you mentioned the sales process so number one. Can we go through each of these five just Just digging a little bit more for each one and and locked and get some more detail around what we can be doing so number one is building Rapport Brecht. So when you talk about building reports this something the thing that should necessarily be done face to face can I do it over email. What's what's the right mechanism to build a portion to be done at the same time? You're going to go after the sale. Should it be done on previous. I mean just give us a little bit of idea about what building rapport means to you. Well first of all nobody knows Zuri cares what you know until they know you care. We've heard that saying before right in report building is like in terms of eighty percent of whether they're going to work is determined based on your report building without right now. If you're calling a referral I always tell people if you get a referral to somebody. Take the time of the person's giving you that name to profile. Now what are they like. Do they have kids. What are the kids interested in right? So I'm writing this down because that's our report building stops. Hey John By name is Pat Stanton. You and I don't know each other but my friend Jimmy Smith suggested I give you a call and said you were looking to sell your house and I just want to give you a quick call me. I'll send you had three kids have played little league and Webster by kids do you. You know what I mean so you can. You can utilize that right out of the gate and Prince People's whilst out right that's a referral but regard this when you're on the phone did the depoyment though the little bit reporter there in get off the phone and do most of it in person in a traditional sound sets right. If you're cold calling you can't build report quit. You GotTa get get to the point. John James Patton. I'm giving you a call because such such good morning good type yes. Let me tell you why I'm calling you get ready to the point so you go through that initial contract and then once you hook them with your qualified questions. That's when you're able to come back later on when you're calling and build more for I was saying this the whole segment. We can do on cold calling the art of it. But you know there's a real art form to that but the same thing holds true and social media in online sales funnels you better build rapport and better qualify and bring up the qualified. The pain identify the problem with China. Saw and then show them how you're GonNa fix it right so report whore is just. It's absolutely critical because again the real art is in the qualifying. If you don't go to enough report they're not going to be honest. They mean withhold the answering a folk qualify secrets. Going you. Bill really good report them. They're really able. You're you're able to ask the tough question okay. So can you expand a little bit more when I think of qualify typically and I think a lot of people think this we think of qualifying. Our customers aren't potential customers before we ever contact them so we'll go out. We'll do some research and we'll say oh here's the list of people we want to contact because they meet the profile but it sounds like you're talking about qualifying while you're on the phone with them so when you use the we're qualified what exactly are you referring to. Can you give us a couple of examples there. And in qualifying again. It's it's on the phone as well as in person. Okay okay so for example you any house before and your day guys. Yes so if you walk into some of you got referred to and you're going to disaster okay. Awesome Sore and the house was flooded in Iran. Out of mine and running out of money there couple months late on their mortgage payment. And you commit there. What are you gonNA WANNA do? You'RE GONNA wind up build report because if you don't build report right there and they're not going to really be honest those qualified questions and you show that sincerety now. The qualify aside is Mary. I tell you I call this little transition crush. I maybe help you out. I might not be a couple of questions I prepared on those in five to ten midst. If I can help you if I can show you. How can't I'm going to tell you that to settle came with you? Yes great talk me about where things are at right now. You know. We're then you're going to ask her about the house were it's at what the situation. Where does she want to go? The financial side are backed up with the mortgage look like what percentage the the she all of it correct. And you're going to qualify out is opportunity to offer seven cents on the dollar to her brow. So this is basically your due. Diligence is your your determining whether this person is actually somebody worth continuing the process to try and sell to or whether they're not a not they don't fit the profile L. for your product or service and now's the time to just kind of exit the the discussion if they don't haul you never present so h stages he's a series of gains. So I used to tell teach my sales people. This remember appointment. New York City is actually manhasset. New York Long Island with a guy named Jeremy me and then we walk into this manufacturing firm and I asked a series qualify questions. Where you out with your salespeople production and all these things right and he was not cooperating? He wasn't answering hardly anything. So I just simply folded my brochure Bayat a notebook up and I said John you're not a problem. Virtually that we can help you out. I don't really understand the first clue about what your problems are. Challenges are the questions and the answers you gave me in. That's it's okay. Thank you very much your time. I literally get up. I go to shake his hand. He's like well well. Oh wait a minute. Where are you listen? Prescription without a diagnosis is malpractice. I have no idea how to help you. Because you're not answering these questions. If you answer these questions tell me honestly that you're hearing you if I it can get this information. I'll be able to to tell you whether I can help you does that. Make such you'd say yes as great. Then we're right back to the questions. The answer me walkout walkout big Sal right so you got to be willing to walk away. If they don't qualify because again presenting in Sally's not persuading is not. You're the best closer is now you're slick and everything else. You just got the magic words. The true concentrated sales approach is finding out. Where are you now? Where do you want to go and Kim? Well I do for living help. You get there so it's real simple. That's great that's great. Once mentioned to me something like it's real simple but something nothing else. What was that? It's it's simple but it's not easy Dakhla. It's simple but it's not easy to keep at it and perfect affect your art form and establish those routines in habits in practice and doing it over and over and over until you can't get it wrong show before we move onto all right guys. Real estate investing is known for a lot of thanks mainly making a very select group of people a whole lot of money but being an online online cutting edge experience is usually not one of those hallmarks. Well thanks to fundraise. That's no longer the case. fundraise is the future of real estate. Investing their revolutionary model is transforming the industry thanks to their software which cuts out the costly middleman and removes old market inefficiencies. fundraise delivers the kind of investing wresting. 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Our goal is efficient sales on the front end and happy customers on the back end and and our sponsor air call helps you achieve. Both air call is one hundred percent cloud based phone system that has helped thousands of sales and support teams. Stop wasting time time on the phone. Your customers don't want to call into a phone support line just to find themselves having to explain their issue over and over again multiple support people air call integrates with the most popular. CRM HELPDESK ECOMMERCE software solutions. Helping your team understand in log. Vital customer information on every call so your customers get their issues. Resolved solved more efficiently and your support. People spend fewer minutes on the phone which saves you money and on the sale side. Imagine how many more prospects your sales team could reach an imagine. And how many more leads you could convert when your phone system can instantly add prospect numbers to calling you can sink call notes to your crm and can automatically dial through a list of numbers back toback. That's just some of the benefits air-cooled provides and here's the best part you can get set up with a no risk seven-day free trial of air call in less than three minutes. No no credit card needed simply visit air call dot co slash. B P B like bigger pockets business. That's air call dot co slash slash beat P. B. to access your seven day free trial of air call. Okay so we're building reporter. Were qualifying the potential social customer next to present and I assume this is kind of the the longest piece of the of the sales process. Where basically you're you're trying to convince them that? This is the product of the service. That's right for that job and so so any any great tips or or just Just gold nuggets of what we should be doing. When we're presenting to the to the potential customer client presenting closing music? It's a crescendo. Aw Okay and you really have to start by adding just a really good little good value adds right in your presentation this summer I do for you. Then it just progressively gets better data give you an example if I were in a real estate setting again. That's just teaching permit. Here's what anybody gave me an example. I could go for any industry works exactly the same in the qualify. If I said John Mary outside and Pricing Commission. I want to talk about that socket now like I don't want to bring up price right away because I get in value outside of pricing commission. Talk me what is what are the qualities. Naturally you're looking for a real estate agent list your home three or four things that you want an half from you were real estate agent and they say things like mutations integrity assertiveness who wants to be. It's going to work hard right so if I got that earlier and I got out. What they they want from the house price wise and I got out urgency where they're at when what their next move is? I did a full qualify. When I got to the presentation I would simply say John and Mary one of the first things you said you wind up with strong communication? You send a couple of different times you've got you said a couple of waste what's important to you and bring on my laptop. I PAT PAT or by pits block. Aw I would say boo commitment communicate Jonah. Mary this is my commitment. To communicate is three and a half paragraphs August Simon. I the bottom. Here's my cell phone number. I here's my day and here's why I returned calls and says I'm going to contact you once week. Proactively let you know who's been through. The House with their feedback was answering questions. You may have right so you're supposed to do that. Not Great and then just down the line. So you're just presenting off the things they said were reported the qualify. The next thing you said you WANNA was integrity I want to show you this testimonial bubble global bow right. So when you're presenting all you're doing is linking the things they said they wanted them to qualify and telling them and showing them with the support collateral material the IPAD. Whatever how you're going to help them get their awesome and so you said that the present in the close kind of go hand in hand so oh you're you're not it's not a here's my presentation now? Let me ask you to buy although I'm sure there's that as well But that ask is kind of woven throughout throughout the presentation. Great salespeople closed people every step of the way got it with what's hideouts all right so John. Maher is this consistent with the type of communication you're looking for from Eurostat hosted agent yes great announce checked off the list. The next thing you said you WANNA was so along the way you know. I'm going to things they said they wanted. I'm showing them how I'M GONNA get. There are solved that problem and then tying down by saying is this satisfactory. What you're looking for what you want expect? Yes and I'm shaking my head like a penguin and do it next day. They're going to say yes right so when it comes to the close if they said yes everything before I get too and I'm just gonNA use this example stay with real estate. John and Mary assume for a second that pricing commission we agree to pot. Would there be any reason you would not utilize me and get things going today or would there be anything anything else. You would want outside prices mission. Are we on the same page with everything else. That's called a trial close now. I know going into the toughest part of the conversation conversation. You always do eloquently deliver on pricing commission and the main closed areas. So we're we're people think that the best salespeople people are the best closers the closes the easiest part because you've been closing them in Tang them down every step of the way and you did water to trial closes and that's why the. UV is important important because in essence when you get to the hardest part of the conversation which is typically what it costs. Or the price and commissioned Mr Right. You're ECM our and you see the physiology change. It's the then after that is when you bring up your UBP now. John so if you think about it infomercial price and they bring in testimonials right and then they do a massive price reduction and causes massive. Rush right after our Watson. This yeah well. There's a lot of psychology with that unit sales presentation and you added value. And that's why me by Crescendo. You've added value. You've tied them down every the way they said yes. That's good that's good. Yes that's good. Yes that's good and you don't Yes for Mental Then you brought up the toughest part. The price cost etc.. It's then then you bring in those unique value propositions and that's really the deal stealing governments close from there. Excellent excellent is so important to have those at the ready all the time. That goes back actor. Exactly what you said over and over keep practicing keep working on your semantics bill. That routine so that your unique value proposition is front and center at all time and you can weave throughout that conversation the station and closed that deal if they qualify if they said they have a problem in along the way they tied out. They told you they want you so. Sally is actually getting them to see in. Say yes I need this. I want this so it's really a direct opposite of the way most people taught about selling and this is a craft. It really is in their listening as we talk about a lot of things. If there's one skill you really need to hone all is your questioning Israelite of question take some money you earn import it into an avenue where it's going to create passive income for you. That is humongous Magas thing. Because businesses sales has runs and when you make them run. Don't spend that run. You don't need great cars. I had a porsche. I got got rid of it six months after bought. It hurt my back. It didn't make me happy the Chevy Silverado. That's what I drive now right basic I love it. Yep A- absolutely edge your expenses so that's one thing is put money into things are gonNA make you more of it and no capital is not the only solve our problems oops guys process and people are so before you start thinking. Well if I had the money if I can just let borrow money from somebody that money will go bill Burns so fast your head on spend if you don't have the process and distribution in salesmanship out I. Those are some fantastic tips. This has been tremendously insightful. But we are getting to at that point in the show where we're going to jump into the four more segment In this segment. We're GONNA ask you for quick questions and then at the end we're going to give you the opportunity to tell house a little bit more about where our listeners can find out about you and your business pat sound good absolutely okay. So let's jump into question number one. Can you tell us about about the worst job you ever had. And what lessons you learn from a to To kind of improve your success your success ability your success chats later in your career. Well I look at life as Lassen so I really don't know if I like some out and I've been pretty quick right so my first job actually some cell phones for a broker dealer which wasn't being company tiny little office and love cell phone technology with in house. Were just coming out at that time. It's one thousand nine hundred five in basically had no leadership not Iraq sales hit a phone book right. And you're giving a cell phone. Go make some money so I didn't really last but more I don't know six or seven months. Somebody gave no idea what I'm doing how to sell or who to talk to. You know have any direction at all. So the lesson I learned from there is made her wooden as you decide. You're going to do. Go make sure you find a good leader and good training and education surround yourself around the people that have that last excellent great lesson. Okay Pat we would like to know what was your defining moment when you realized I've I've got this entrepreneurial edge and I need to make something happen on my own well very early on. I mean I'll go back to when I was playing junior college football and I was getting recruited. My a lot of colleges wide shows the school there was oh and nine the year they were recruiting me right now. I knew that that to me I always wanted our own. Nine is attractive to me because because if I can go there and make them five hundred or seven hundred or forbidden. Make the playoffs a college man. I can make a difference but you know. Surely they're actors that cellphone job literally went in and I hired a hired one time and one percent a team of people pick through this one particular guy that I was a working with wanted me to work with him so success now I am not made probably more than a thousand dollars a month at that point in time and now I'm GonNa go out and talk to executives and South Success for straight commission know-how benefits. It's at that point time where I'm like I don't care I love this. This is what I do in my life. I'm going in and I was only twenty four years old. I made that decision and it was just an agreement best awesome. That's awesome okay. Question question number three what was your worst entrepreneurial moment what was the what was the worst thing that's happened in your entrepreneurial career. Oh it's just with my business partner in find out in the Florida in in saying you know what when I five back to Rochester. We're GONNA go in and fire. Every single one of our employees in shock lights locked the door. How fightback down here? We'll figure out what we're GONNA do. That was when you have kids especially that was the worst day business class. But it wasn't if you've Still focused on people. There's always a pearl now and that not to get too long with this. But we had coaches coaching clients. We had to fire the coaches. We decide clients have paid for coach fulfils contracts. So the worst part was he and I started to keep working alley. We we're not breaking money. Bringing jazz died. The bill of one of those people end up. Coaching basically asked me Pat. What would it take for you to come to turn my business route? I said while you're asking a lot of have to give up my company shut down yesterday on and say that number fantastic. I'll draw up a contract. Let's do it you know it was in that serving mentality that are in. My opinion is my creator lasting that new opportunity because Napoleon the polling hill set of passion. Thank you girl rich. Every scene of adversity adversity. You have there's a seat of its direct opposite so no one can ever take. You just stops just license dig lassen move on you know so we just got a little bit not have self pity self doubt yourselves zone. Does yourselves off excellent. That's a great pearl of wisdom to take from that. Okay Pat One more question. What is something along the way that you have splurged splurged on either personally or professionally? That was totally worth it. Well the poorest on that and I hated it so oh so I thought all these big things material things. Just don't impress want experiences. Do you know it really truly does I mean I'm all about family experiences. And so honestly you know from a business. Perspective really splurged data mining software to pull data off the computer. Thanks that's great. That is one thing that as we talked to so many people in the more entrepreneurs we talked to that common theme is absolutely a in every single time. None of us care about the material stuff anymore right. We've all realized that by by taking control of our own journey in our own time in our own day we we are totally able to prioritize what really matters and we truly realize that experiences are all that matter the staff whatever. It just doesn't matter as long as you're happy you're your healthy. Your kids are okay. All works itself out hundred percent guys. I I'm so excited and so happy here tonight. Okay let's jump into the more part of this of the four more. Tell our listeners where they can find out more about you more about your business and how they can connect with you. Yes so if you WanNa go to coach Pat Fenton on facebook and that's the way for me to talk to you if you want to hear what up with me and just kind of hear some of the things I do videos. I do go to coach Pat on facebook. I'd also go to wrap success dot com and so those are the two main places you wanNA check me out. FACEBOOK friend request me on facebook Patrick. Excellent Excellent Pat. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with our listeners. We really really appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for having made apologize for the boys. Hope we got today can hear me. Okay no problem fantastic. Thanks a million. Pat have a great day. So what did you think Mr Scott Mrs Scott you in calling me that in forever. Wow So loved that episode. Right there was so much golden there. There are two do things in particular that really stuck out. I the one about the analogy with the Baseball Hall of famers and how just batting three hundred. And they're in the hall of fame. So it's it's a great reminder that we don't have to set out to be perfect we just have to get out there and try it and secondly of course I absolutely love that gold nugget about. Don't practice until you get it right but instead practice until you cannot get it wrong that is just such an awesome mindset hat shift and really just emphasizes the importance of doing something over and over and over till it's just second nature to you and that you just have on the tip of your tongue the right way all the time you took the words right out of my mouth. I think the my favorite quote in this episode and probably one of my favorite quotes ever was exactly what you said. Don't practice until you get it right practice until you get it wrong. I mean that's just words to live by right there. A great awesome cool well. Are we ready to wrap up this week. Let's wrap it up baby aby Thank you everybody for listening. She's Carol I'm Jay L.. Go find a mentor. Grow Your Business convert some sales today. Hey everybody have a great day take.

PAT PAT football Pat Fenton John Mike John Mary partner Mrs Carol Scott Pat Fen Nice School and Played College Football facebook bill Burns baseball reporter Florida sales training Lassen
8 Trivia Questions on Supernatural

Trivia With Budds

12:34 min | 1 year ago

8 Trivia Questions on Supernatural

"It's eight trivia questions on the hit CW show supernatural which has been on TV for I think one hundred and fifty years let's jump into. This is trivia would buds. Be and welcome to another episode of the trivia with buds podcast. I'm your host. Ryan buds. Thanks for checking out the show and giving it a listen on this beautiful day. It is sunny. It is perfect temperature. And it is back to live in California. I love it so much, and I hope your weather is getting nicer wherever you listen to the show at unless you listen in Antarctica. I'm sure I got a few listeners there right there some archaeologists or something up there doing some kind of dig and they're cold. They're like, let's listen to something fun that we can play out loud together with in this freezing blizzard. And you put on the trivial buds podcast and shout out to you guys. Also shout out to my friend, Arteta eighty five who left a nice five star review. He said love the podcast or she. I'm not exactly sure who are Tatum is love the podcast five stars. Awesome. To have a daily podcast. Ryan does a great job. And usually keeps it short and sweet and doesn't ramble too much like other podcasts. Keep up the good work. Thanks are Tatum. Eighty-five hope you like the shoutout on today's episode. If you wanna get shout out to all the time, you can always join my patriot page. That's the biggest coolest way to support this show. We got a little army of thirty people and that is growing rapidly. So if you want to throw a few bucks, my way, I will throw a few rewards your way, I have a whole stack of Disney Pixar, postcards here, and that's the three dollar tier? So if you want one of those male to I don't even right on the postcard, I send you a postcard that you can then send to somebody else or you could frame it or collected or whatever you want to do and got Toy Story. I got cars, I got brave. I got Wally all the Pixar favorites in this little. Stack. So that's one of the tears. Check it out over on patriot dot com slash trivia. With buds this week. There's not too many crazy things going on in my life except a few private parties. And as always tons of bingo and trivia on the daily, and you can see all those trivial locations. And bingo locations at trivia with buds dot com, click on the locations tab, and you can't see where you can play with me live all around town. Shoutout to listener. And patriot subscriber Meghan Acuna who join me last night for bingo at a place called highbrow, which is a real DIVY bar in upland, California. And we do bingo there on Mondays from ten thirty to twelve thirty. And it's usually the same group of people who like drinking and playing bingo on Monday nights, but Meghan jumped in with all her friends and family and said, hey, I didn't even know you're going to be here. And I said here's some bonus. Bingo cards for being a patriot subscriber. So that's how it works. If I see out in the field. Oh, wanna buy drinks? I'm gonna be a bonus stuff. I'm gonna give you prizes out of the trunk of my car. It's a real treat, and you're gonna love it speaking treats, I have a very cool idea for something that dispenses treats. And that's all I'm gonna say, but that will be in months to come probably midsummer. I think I'm gonna try a really cool idea that literally popped into my head yesterday and have been pitching it to people nonstop on the phone, and to my friends, my family, anyone who will listen, and everybody's like that it's a pretty cool idea. And that's not always the case, sometimes people go, but what about the whatever? But so far no detractors yet. So I think I'm onto something, and you guys will be the first snow the podcast listeners because it is kind of podcast -i in the stale e pop culture related, so maybe you will actually be part of making this thing thing. That's all I'm gonna say for now. But I think it's going to be cool. All right. Today's episode is about the TV show supernatural show. I've never seen one frame of except maybe in a bar while hosting or something and it was on with. No sound. But I got eight questions for you. This is from a website called useful, trivia dot com. And I like the layout of this website. It's very simple. Nice website. I would like to recreate this website with my own trivia questions at some point and have this huge database that people can go to and maybe I'll do that near future. Get some more hits on the old website by having a bunch of trivia questions people can pull from but we're going to jump into eight questions on supernatural trivia and just a second. This was picked by another patriot subscriber named Sarah guest, and maybe cerebral be a guest on the podcast over the phone in the near future. We're gonna supernatural questions right now. Here we go. Here we go with some super natural trivia questions. These are going to be multiple choice. We'll see how you do on this quiz number one for supernatural. What language do the angels on supernatural speak? Do they speak death? Rocky furbish Naveh or an ocean. Again, those choices what of the languages that. The what is the language of the angels on supernatural, speak is it death? Rocky furbish navy or an ocean? Question. Number two. What is Crowley's nickname for Sam Winchester is it? Batman, moose, squirrel or thumper. Number two. What is Crowley's nickname for Sam Winchester, his Batman, moose, squirrel or thumper? Question. Number three what eighties rockstar is possessed by Lucifer in season. Twelve of supernatural is that as he is born Rick Springfield, Jon, Bon Jovi or Madonna. I hope it's all those are great Joyce's Ozzy. Rick, Springfield, Jon, Bon Jovi, or Madonna. Question number four who are Sam and dean's parents is at Bobby and Alan Winchester, John and Mary Winchester Samuel and Dina or Deanna Winchester or Jerry and an Winchester, Bob and Ellen John Mary, salmon Deanna or Jerry and an who are Sam and dean's. Parents. Question. Number five. What was the title of the show originally going to be was it? Brothers grimm. The Winchesters hunters or unnatural brothers rim, the Winchesters, hunters or unnatural. Questionable six what angel wrote the word of God, tablets is that Optimus prime Balfas are Semaj real or Mediterranean number six what angel wrote the word of God's tablets that Optimus prime Balthasar Symantec drill or Mediterranean. Question seven, what hunter married aware wolf named bass is that Rufus Turner, Garth FitzGerald, the fourth Benny LA fit or Gordon Walker who married a werewolf named best Rufus Garth Benny or Gordon. And question number eight in Scooby natural season. Thirteen episode sixteen who makes out with Velma. Is it Charlie? Sam dean or Casteel. Number eight in Scooby natural season. Thirteen episode sixteen who makes out with Velma to Charlie Sam, dean or Casteel? All right. My neighbor has started a motorcycle, which means that's the end of the questions, and we're going to jump into the answers as soon as he turns it off. All right. The motorcycle has left my block and we're back with the answers to supernatural trivia question. Number one. What language do the angels in supernatural speak? You said death. Rocky furbish navy or a notion the angels and supernatural speak a no chin, but to most humans, it just sounds like a very high pitched shriek now like I mentioned in the inter I've never seen this show. But it does make me kind of want to watch it because I liked Buffy back in the day and a little bit of angel. And I feel like this is kind of in the same wheelhouse. Right. I gotta watch this. Although you gotta dedicate like two full weeks year life to watch all the episodes. And I don't know if I can do that. But one of these days, I'll watch at least a season, and Riverdale I wanna watch Riverdale because as a huge fan is a kid, and I don't know show looked pretty cool number two. What is Crowley's nicknamed? Sam Winchester was a Batman, moose, squirrel or thumper Crowley often. Call Sam moose in dean, squirrel motion score. Will I imagine a rocky and bowl winkle reference? Number three, what eighties rockstar is possessed by Lucifer and season twelve of supernatural, man. I wish it was Jon Bon Jovi, he was in a movie called vampires. Low smart does. So I could see him doing something like this. But it was actually Rick Springfield in Mamma Mia season. Twelve episode twelve Lucifer takes over the body of washed up rockstar. Vince, Vincent played by Rick Springfield. They probably could have just named him. Rick, Springfield, number four who are salmon dean's. Parents Bobby and Ellen Winchester, John and Mary Sam Indiana, or Jerry and the answers were John and Mary Winchester after Mary was killed by the demon as L John Winchester became one hunter and raised his two sons to fight the supernatural number five. What was the title of the show originally going to be on natural was the answer? So I had the choices of brothers Grimm Winchester's, hunters and unnatural originally show is going to be called unnatural. And it was about a reporter. Going around researching urban legends and writing about them in his column. It had nothing to do with the Winchester brothers. That's interesting. Number six what angel wrote the word of God, tablets was that Optimus prime probably not belt czar Samantha drill or metro on the metro on who wrote those word of God, tablets, according to the demon tablet. He is an archangel but metro on himself claims to be an angel from the secretarial division number seven two more to go. What hunter married aware wolf name best? That was Garth FitzGerald the fourth after being turned into a werewolf. He joins a pack of where wolves that peacefully coexist with humans mostly and married one named best and number eight and Scooby natural season. Thirteen episode sixteen who makes out with Velma. It was Sam says dean spends the hop chasing after Daphne, but it is Sam who finally lack slips with Velma and not seeing this episode. I'm wondering are these characters would just names of the Scooby characters or is it some sort of Scooby crossover? I would love to see it. Maybe I should start with this episode from season thirteen all right guys. Those are your eight questions for supernatural trivia, I hope he had fun playing along if you're a fan of this show, or maybe if you're not a fan of the show, you wanna start watching it like I do if you're fan of this podcast hit subscribe on your device, new get new episodes every single day. This is the first episode you've ever listened to. Maybe you searched supernatural trivia, and this popped up, and you're listening to it in your life. Hey, this was pretty cool. You can go back and check out four hundred other episodes in our feed and earlier this week. We did one call the best picture Oscar winners we did twenty five questions on green things for Saint Patrick's Day the day. After Saint Patrick's Day, we did five questions on famous Patrick's, and we have a huge huge library of topics. We've done anything you can think of we probably done it or will do it in the near future. If you want to support the show again, always go to patriot dot com slash trivia. With buds to see all the cool goodies. You can get the Renan stimpy offer still going till March thirty. I if you like funk, pop, collectibles checkout our doors set, you can see a video of me pimping and out over on. Ryan buds on Instagram. Follow me for updates and videos and pictures of fun. Pop culture stuff there. Thank you guys so much for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. We'll see you tomorrow for more trivia with buds. Cheers.

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Teen Podcast Episode 57  Discipleship for Disciples

Magnify Him Together

14:27 min | 6 months ago

Teen Podcast Episode 57 Discipleship for Disciples

"Hello everyone. This is brother. Caleb Osborne with episode number fifty seven of the magnify him together podcast. This week I'm very excited. To share with you. The beginning of a new series titled Discipleship for Disciples. If your experience is anything like mine there are times when life is a disciple of Jesus is challenging. Perhaps you find yourself so caught up in your own plans and the business of daily life that you lose focus on the example. Jesus set for us and the imminence of his return sometimes. It's difficult struggle to try to control our wayward spirit. The impulses of the flesh can be so hard to deny. Maybe you just can't seem to shake feelings of guilt from past mistakes or ongoing sin. Perhaps we struggle with pride allowing our Scheldt selfishness or ambition to get in the way of serving others sometimes. Our greatest enemy is the pull of the world and we find ourselves reluctant to get off the fence and truly commit our lives to Christ at other times perhaps struggle with doubt and we struggled to believe in the promises of God. Whatever your particular areas of weakness are. I think it's fair to say that we all could use a little help in our discipleship while the premise of this series is that the best way to learn how to be a better disciple is to study the lives of the first disciples whom Jesus called to follow him all the issues that I just mentioned that we struggle with in the twenty first century had to be dealt with way back in the first century by the little band of Galileo's who would end up becoming the apostles whom we read about in the New Testament God willing. We planned to spend time with Andrew With Philip with Matthew with John. Peter Judas and Thomas the next eight weeks and as you get to know this group of disciples. I hope that we will be able to relate to their struggles to find inspiration in their example and draw encouragement from the way Jesus worked in their lives. But before we start looking at each of the Individual Disciples. I'd like in this first episode to think about a question that's fundamental to this study and that is why did Jesus choose to call disciples? We take it for granted because we've learned about since Sunday School. But he didn't need to and yet he did. He chose twelve men who accompanied him throughout his ministry. Why well the ballad gives us two primary reasons. And they both stated in Mark's account of the call the twelve apostles and marked up to three I fourteen which reads and Jesus ordained twelve that they should be with him and that he might send them to preach you see. She's wanted people whom he could enlist to spread his gospel message throughout the world. But there was also a more personal reason and it's found at the beginning said he ordained twelve that they should be with him. You say yes. Jesus wanted laborers to help him preach but he also wanted disciples. Who would be with him? You see Jesus was looking for companionship. Who's looking for people who would be with him throughout his ministry? But what kind of relationship was Jesus looking for in the people who chose to be with a well in John? Fifteen near the end of his ministry. Jesus gives us a window into his relationship with his disciples. This is in the upper room soon after the last supper on the night before Jesus was crucified and he reflects on his relationship with his disciples in John. Fifteen I fifteen. Jesus says henceforth call you not servants for the servant Noah not what his Lord deal with but I have called you friends for all things that I have heard of my father. I have made known to you. Jesus is explaining here that he didn't see disciples servants or students or someone who would remain aloof distant from Jesus saw his disciples as his closest friends people who relied on people whom he shared everything with which is pretty remarkable. Well if that's what. Jesus how Jesus saw his disciples what what was required of them. What is being a friend of Jesus or disciple visas? Look like while the previous I tells us Jesus says in Verse Fourteen. Er My friends if you do whatever. I commend you so being a friend of Jesus means that we have to follow Jesus. Teaching requires a committed life of obedience. But how widely does this apply? Who exactly gets to be a friend of Jesus was it? Just a privilege title reserved only for his closest disciples. Well if we look back one more verse to John Fifteen Thirteen which is perhaps the most iconic statement about friendship of all time we find out a piece of information that gives us a hint as to who it is that Jesus is willing to call his friend John Fifteen Verse Thirteen Says Greater Love Hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends. Let I tells us that willingly giving up your life for someone else is the ultimate expression of love. It's the ultimate proof of friendship and so this first reveals a few things. Firstly it tells us how Jesus feels about his friends. He loves them to the most. It also tells us that those whom he died are people whom he considers to be his friends. Greater love has no mandate that a man lay down his life for his friends so his friends of those for whom he laid down his life so to find out who that is we have to look at some other passages a great place to start is John. Three Verse Sixteen which we know well and John. Three for sixteen. She's has just said that. Just like Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness to give life to those who are stung by bitten by the serpent just like that the son of man would also be lifted up and then he says for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that whoever believes on him would not perish so the people for whom Christ died were the world anyone who believed on him. The wonders invitation to be one of Jesus. Friends is open to everyone to anyone who comes to Jesus sees him on the Cross and all that it represents and believes in him in the saving name of Jesus Christ but you know when Jesus laid down his life for his friends on that cross outside of Jerusalem. Some nine thousand nine hundred. Ninety years ago he was not just thinking about those disciples who me already had when he was laying down his life for his friends. It wasn't just Peter James John Mary Magdalene Salami and those whom he knew at the time he was also doing it for you and me. He did for anyone who would believe on him. Perhaps it seems hard to grads around the idea that Jesus died on the cross. Who's thinking about you who's thinking he was doing it for me but it's true and we can see the proof of that in. John Chapter Seventeen John. Seventeen records the longest prayer that we have from Jesus Lips and it was spoken just a few hours. After Jesus talked to the disciples about being his friends in John. Fifteen at the beginning of Jesus prayer John Seventeen. Jesus says this is life eternal that they might know the the only true God and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent so right at the beginning. We were told that in order to obtain the eternal life that Jesus died to give us. It's imperative that we know him and that we know God but does it mean to know Jesus into no God does just mean to know some facts about them. I suggest it's a lot more than that. You See. We're talking about knowing someone. We often use it in the sense of getting to know someone thinking about the people who you know best. Probably your family and your friends. You know people who you're friends with don't you? Well if we look through this chapter John Seventeen. Jesus spends the majority of his prayer praying on the behalf of his twelve disciples. And if you read his entire prayer you get real sense of the love and care with which he talks to God about his friends no time to read it but I could summarize it by saying that intersection. Jesus praised that God would take care of his disciples through his name. He prays that the disciples would be one with each other and with him and with God like he and God are United. He also praised at those disciples would have the same joy in their hearts that he did. He praised that God would keep them from the evil. He praised the garbage sanctify them or make them holy through his truth. It's remarkable that right before his death when he could have been focusing on strengthening himself for the COMING ORDEAL. Jesus took the time to pray to God on behalf of his disciples. He cares so much about them and he wants so much regard to complete the work that he began in them but in verse twenty of John. Seventeen the direction of his prayer shifts. She's a stops talking about. His disciples is current disciples and he starts talking about a different group and now we have the proof that as he faced the cross. Jesus was thinking about you and me. He says in Verse Twenty of John. Seventeen neither pray for these alone but for them also which shall believe on me through their word that they all may be one as Thou father are in me and I in the that they also may be one in us. The world may believe that Thou has sent me so Jesus extends his prayer from his current disciples to apply to everyone from any subsequent age. Who would end up believing on him? He said I'm not just praying for these disciples but I'm praying for everyone who will believe on me through their word through their witness so when Jesus went to the cross it was to lay his life down for his friends but most of those friends people who he had not yet met because they even alive yet. I find that quite remarkable and this is why I believe learning that learning about the disciples. He's such powerful study as brothers and sisters. In Christ we are modern day disciples. But it's not very often that we actually stopped to think and to realize that being a disciple means having the son of God as your friend but this concept is not unique to the New Testament. In fact the one passage. I WanNa talk to you about that. Speaks about being a friend of Jesus is actually in the Old Testament. It's in Song of Solomon Chapter. Five in this section the bride in the story who of course represents the faithful of the Ecclesia has just listed detailed description of why she loves the groom the beloved which of course is Jesus and at the end of her list. She sums it up with these words she says of the groom. He is altogether lovely. This is my beloved and this is my friend because the bride of Christ sees her. Groom Jesus as friend. That's the relationship that we can have with Jesus when we enter into a covenant relationship with him. How amazing is that we get to be friends with the judge of all the earth with the one who will determine our eternity at the judgment seat but perhaps the idea of being a friend of Jesus is hard to pin down. What does it mean? It's difficult to know what that looks for us like for US practically. How do we live? As one of Jesus's disciples what is required of those who want to be his friends? How does Jesus work with or interact with us? The best way to answer this question is to look at the record that we have his relationship with his twelve disciples to put ourselves in their sandals. So that we can find out how we can become better friends. Better Disciples of the Logistics Christ. And that is our goal. Godwilling with this podcast series. So I'm looking very much forward to getting to know Jesus with you. A little better. Throughout the experiences of seven of his closest disciples in the coming weeks the end of each episode. I'm hoping to summarize the most important lesson of this podcast of each episode in one statement about Jesus Christ and hopefully each week. That statement can be something that you think about and throughout the week. And this week's lesson is that you can be a friend of Jesus that's offer today. Come BACK NEXT WEEK. For discipleship for disciples part to when we will take a look at the first disciple who followed Jesus Andrew

Jesus John Chapter John Seventeen John Fifteen Verse Peter James John Mary Magdalen Caleb Osborne Sunday School US Moses Jerusalem Mark Peter Judas Galileo Noah Andrew Philip Thomas Matthew
Devil's Cub

Heyer Today

1:11:23 hr | 8 months ago

Devil's Cub

"Previously on here today. Basically. I Love Air because I just love being in that world but I think technically she is extraordinarily good and she's really was studying from that point of view well, we can all learn a lot from what she does as you start with fixing If fluffy clouds somewhere with the world's great writers on it. Unquestionably has I don't think you ties hair on it. There is always at the heart of a hair, the question of kind of man and a woman work it out so that they can make a partnership. And Welcome, to, force episode of Hair. Today. The podcast in which we try to solve the mystery of why rights as usual his books have been adapted for the screen. We also tried to convert near Rita's to work along the way. This week's victim. Amin recipient about benevolence. Is Halliburton. He's the basis in my band, Scott stallings and he's never ready to handle. Hallowed will be reading Devil's cub and I can't wait to discuss it with them. As ever there will be spoilers. So bear that in mind. And this week, we have the most special of special guests I told myself I wouldn't embarrassed by being unprofessional. So without any gushing whatsoever and the minimum of fanfare Mr Stephen Fry will return refute. Yes that. Because we love him so much. We'll be sprinkling a bit of fry throughout the series to do download episode stick at your dose. But I his best to tell us a little bit about what was up to at the time. She was writing this week's Book Devil's Cup. In Nineteen Twenty Six Georgia hair is only twenty four years old newlywed and still reeling from the death of her beloved father. Between the publication of these old shades. First, real blockbuster and it sequel Devil's Cub and ninety, thirty two. We're looking at a period of just six years. It's a time of great change while British women older than thirty had the votes since nineteen. Eighteen. Until Nineteen Twenty Eight Women Age Twenty one also getting that right? Georgia was twenty six at the time and whether she liked it or not. She was leading her on charge free quality she and taken on financial responsibility for her mother and her two brothers, and it was going to continue to be a difficult time financially for everyone. Walla, ten years of the Great Depression will looming Georgette family seemed unaffected for the moment at least. George it's workers. It set a solid foundation for her future longevity bestselling author. This included ever expanding audience in the US Australia New Zealand South Africa and Canada. And just as well. However she's still grappling with her role as the main breadwinner in the family. Adding to the financial uncertainty, Ronald is about to embark on an assortment of contrast in correze trying everything from mining sports retail. Wall, they knew each other for five years before their marriage Ronald actually spent most of that time ruled working in Russia and Africa long before their engagement. And Ninety twenty-six just over a year since their marriage he was about to leave England and go back to Africa this time as an independent prospector seeking his fortune in the tin mines in Tanganyika. These old shades is published in October nineteen, twenty, six, six months after the general strike, which caused disruption to transport and industry including pipes, applause publishing, and newspaper advertising. Yet, Georgette spoke cells unaffected and she is rewarded with her first best Selah. It has been suggested that this is one reason she was absolutely adamant throughout her career that personal publicity was an unnecessary. Also, during this period, a handful of talented women making detective fiction respectable. That's according to her biographer Jane. Aching Hodge. These writers included Agatha Christie Dorothy l size and Margaret Allingham another young over also published in Nineteen twenty-three at only nineteen years of age. It was Allingham who said that mystery Rogers. In the late nineteen twenties and early thirties were refugees from a world in emotional chaos. As if to make manifest this thing in December Donnie twenty-six their superstar Agatha Christie Disappears for eleven days instigating search involving more than one thousand policemen and hundreds of civilians. I wonder what your jet made this peculiar event. In any case? It's doubtful. If she even heard the news, she spent that Christmas and New Year on a passenger ship bounds east Africa to reunite with Ronald. Traveling alone just her sealy him terrier Roddy for company for the next year Georgette Ronald in mining compound in Tanganyika a colony under British control since the end of first world. War. This. is their opportunity for adventure. But. You do wonder how you're going to keep her composure her clothes pressed on her massive waves intact living in hot made out of bamboo with a roof of elephant cross with lions, leopards and rhinos roaming freely outside. There's only one of the European and Georgette is the only woman. She has her tiny dog Roddy company while Ronald is away at work. Spotlight Oscillation and basic living conditions. It's probably Georgette must relax time. This is pure freedom away from the kids the dog hair in England in this totally alien landscape. She writes four novels pen in hand paper balanced precariously on me dressed in hockey shorts and shirt she revels in the African heat. There are safaris to attend walks as well as the occasional, rather hair-raising rising encounter with local wildlife in her own backyard. What time you say you'll be returning to. Darling. S. thiede. Right. Time I was. Driving copy with you. Goodbye. Ice. Forget something. That's me my rifle Georgetti a blasted in the camp. How terribly? Exciting Off. Tossing on coat of her pajamas chojet Russia's after her husband they're not twenty yards from house to the left is a large black rhino moving slowly through the Camp Mr jv oats all his warily his gun raised above his head. Sniffing the Rhino it's as if to say. Gauge I see nothing for me to do here. It could have been with I've seen those creatures moving like a tank crashing through the undergrowth paper. No. Marching through the Rhino tracks by yourself for right door that. We now have very different ideas about rhino hunting coming from south, Africa, myself I feel very strongly about the poaching and hunting endangered wildlife. However to short jets and Ronald at this time and fearing for their lives, it would have seemed like a thrilling adventure which she wrote about in her article, the horned beast of Africa this fear. Despite these unusual divisions, this is a period of abundant APP put for Ronald. It is a time of great promise. A new career ahead in a fortune to be made. For Georgette welcome escape from the overwhelming grief of her father's death. She writes Helen a modern novel. It's outpouring of grief suggests a close autobiographical. But Ronald did not strike it locking in Tanganyika. After just a year in. Africa the couple travel back to London and arrive one week after the publication of Helen. It's not long before running secures a new position this time in the lead mines of Macedonia. Georgia joins him there, and once again living in spas conditions albeit with a logic ex. Pat. British. Community than in Africa. Much, less beautiful. At least here there are a cocktail parties and dinners to divert her and with London library membership reinstated she has a ready supply of books posted up to pour over as research. But in one thousand, nine, hundred, thirty back briefly in London before moving to the countryside of Sussex. The period that started with the death of George it's filed sadly also ends with another death. Ronald's father falls under a tube training London. It's ruled suicide by the car, but that verdict is fiercely rejected by Georgette and Ronald. In the six years between nineteen, twenty, six and nineteen thirty, two George Ronald have lived in properties in Africa Macedonia at London and Sussex. Ralph has had four jobs. Georgia does publish Titan ovals, mainly, histories and Rye manses as well as first murder mystery footsteps in the dock. Three of four contemporary novels were written in this time. Georgia will eventually have all of them suppressed from future publication. Quote. To Louisa Calendar of Heinemann forget all about instead of. Hostile Helen Baron Cohen they aren't for this and they stick I want them to be buried in decent oblivion. Georgia and returned to London in one, thousand, nine, hundred, thirty. It is time to stop the next phase of their adventure together. In one hundred, thirty, two, son, Richard George Rouge da is born on exactly the same day as footsteps in the dock is released. Get another novel that George tries to suppress later in her life ever her harshest critic she couldn't suffered the idea of a sub-standard book there. There are as always with Georgette financial pressures. She enrolled the pain rent on properties for themselves and also for Georgette mother. Added to this neither of them like to skimp on clothes food from forums and now the creature comforts. Soon is forced to sell the film rights. Simon. The cold hot to Fox Film But unless it's a deal that never transpired is. The personal turmoil Georgette and her family of survived is about to be put to the test by world events. The Great Depression is upon them and the Second World War is looming what will the future hold for Georgette and her family? Most people's favourite juno kindness. Great ones these old shades and Devil's cup. and. Now, here's held him discussing Devil's cub with me. Remember I'm trying to convert people who've never has work or even in case any romance. This could backfire. High Hallard how are you doing? I'm good. Thanks. In Code Code London, it's Great. Can you tell me who you are and what you do on I'm a kind of a Tuta school at the moment. And currently getting ready to teach training. Were you aware of Georgia his work before I appreciate this podcast known also, we had a nice conversation about why she hasn't been selected for TV I was like she's will keep out. So then you told me to book I did he obeyed my decree Good. Have you read any Jane Liston who she's often compared to? Li I need to kind of embarrassing to admit that I think. But yeah. You're in charge of molding young minds I mean to smoke. Expressing their feelings rubbish. Well I personally think that it this is science that your life will be twenty five percent improved. If you read Johnson's all of her works immediately. Garfield. Average. Up Statistics. Ahead. Not Ready of facing them any fact serve I mean. Yeah probably will be better if reach Johnston but. I must science is a bit Shakey. I will admit that. Of you'll yourself. As a science to follow along kind of conducting my experiments in terms of George, his can trying to get people to come round to the idea that cheats almost as good as journalists in what we preconceptions about the book I was expecting a kind of sweeping remembrance book. Weather man is a very much gentleman talk through and the woman is kind of like the phony kind of standard bull connor was written in time about how women bays and I guess I was kind of faces up to some extent with some of the characters but on the main characters very different. Now, I mean, have you seen Jane Austen at -TATIONS Nah? We had pardoned prejudices Ovidio I was younger by may be rather what's just People guns thing. So No, I haven't really seen adaptations. So we fairly say that this is very much the opposite of what you'd normally pick up to read. This isn't looking good for my conversion school cod. Okay. So I just want to interject here describe halibut. He's about the same age as the hero book the Makia. Fidel. This. Is going to embarrass him but he's quite suny to a bit of a modern version of a classic. Hey, here are the marquee however one of his wildest characters. So I thought it would be amazing to see any parallels between Hallard and his literary equivalent. Regularly oven say many but I mean the one thing we did have in common was I. mean he likes to jewel and kill people on the rags. I guess he's very funding killing people. Yeah. I have been known to get out and shoot someone in a bar I've been at so. At the least provocation I've noticed that about e. Very tempered life. My father was exactly the same as well. The United Shallow people to right right right to true. So that's why they call you Halid Fists Ham. Is that where that name comes from your. Said and my also driver fast I'm hoping hills to. FIRST DIFFERENCE, Teen Fidel Hero Halid. Held writer by not a carriage or horse. Do you ever have any races on your bike amongst your friends you place bets on who can get to say stuck. NEWINGTON. Coca. Really amongst my friends, I'll see strangers on my bike and I'll give them a dying look I'm a now. No, it's time to get ready to race. At is united legal street racing scene of London with the with the pushbikes. Pretty dangerous you know dangerous guys. Yeah. Some tells me Halladay using a tiny bit of creative license. What about any kind of gambling you like an Aficionado of Poker Carol anything like that I used to sports but then like I was so bad it just gave up immediately. You kinda feel you have an inside game like, ooh, I know was going to happen here and then that person loses or gets knocked out really badly more that like why. Waste money on this. So now I don't gamble. Second, difference Halid does not gamble. That's well, that's a big difference. I think that seems like it's quite a big part of their lives, the young men of that time. So Johnson, class it in his eighteen eighteen book, the code of Health and longevity. That Games of chance were quote attended with much mischief both to the games tests themselves to society. Passing laws to discourage gambling didn't seem to help much. Sinclair or games of chance caused quote I don a Steph and debauchery amongst what he calls the lower orders unquote among the higher have occasion the sudden desolation and ruin of. Respectable families. End An abandoned prostitution of every principle of honor and virtue. Something tells me this guy wasn't very popular party's. Both sixes could take quite and games like back rat wist and has it. Has. Heroes will often be found indulging in these vices at gentlemen's clubs such as bottles, Brooks, and whites. And it seems to be like very tied up with Annette doesn't it kind of? A sense of honour amongst your mates. No not all. There is no on amongst the tool. Yeah. It seems like a very weird concept that is already old. Now I mentioned a moment in the first chapter in which del Shoots Highwayman and leaves him on the side of the road. As introductions go. It's pretty spectacular. But how does the concept of honor fit into this? Feel like that would never happen amongst my friends if someone accused of chasing that, it'd be like, okay that's your opinion. That's your opinion, and then we would just kind leave her that whenever stroke down or anything like that. I guess it has happened in many other cycles I think my sock less aggressive the not. Have you ever had to anybody any kind of fight or advised that was like Alex when I was in year seven that throwdown with him scrap what was it about I? Think he cou my momma bitch similarity. Fidel is also very close to his mother. He only feisty orphan from these old shades grass grounds for beating. So we had to fight next of. How old were you? I was about eleven twelve right? Would you say you evenly matched all? With bigger than him so nine. Stools what proudest moment? And I have no listened stanton ready. But I bet you never insulted anyone else's mother after that. I think he sold in my mother after that as well as like Komo done this already widens. In that early at time, there wasn't many as like a really coherent police force. I guess the Honor Code was the only way that they could get justice. So I, suppose when someone is accusing you of some cheating, it would be quite a big deal if you were to have jewel, who would you ask to be your second to come along with you in the early morning hours you might check that the weapons that you've chosen. And also what weapon would use? My Limited on weapon I can choose by era don't have to choose one from not anything. It can even be offended to see. You can have like save if you want. But how many places you have to take like ten was probably the standard but I don't know. I. Suppose. It depends on the a show nothing that we pretty good at that range gadgets. It'd dad winner. Do you know how to use a shotgun? In what ways personality wise. Do you think that you are similar to Fidel the main character? Very little he just so perfect in every way from his personality anyone I guess some kind of tool like him other than that I mean he's very a terrible was women. He's given all soldiers family econoline loves his mother as well to convert creepy extent. So I think you take to each other. This podcast is all about me trying to win people around to the pleasures of hair. So we weren't be delving too deeply into the murky aspects of Adel Psychology. Right now anyway. Instead we crack on with the book. Once again, there will be spoilers. So look away now if you don't want to hit all about the plots of Devil's Cub. I. We discussed the opening scene in which Fidel's on his way to- bowl. Rushing along L. as usual breakneck speed. A couple of high women stop the carriage one of whom. Fidel sort of shoots in the head. At point blank. Range. But what was HAL attraction to this unsettling event? It was good good opening I was like, what is this guy needs business? And he did mean business so good where this is completely blowing my expectations I'd like a typical romance way you feel that the narrator is going along with everybody and she does kind. She's always got the slice of huma going on or the slice of commentary, and in this case, she has these to coachman it. One of them's new I. He's complaining about how fast they is like we're GonNa die he's going so fast and yet cushman's like this is nephew. And then when the when he shoots the Highwayman and they're kind of going. His. Are. In, the road my Lord do we leave him like that and he's like, of course do you think I'm GonNa, take into the bowl with me but there was a part of me i. was I mean I I, love her stuff I kind of enjoy a lot of things about the book, but I must admit this was. His brains are one thorough. She's mentioned brains on the road in this romance. What did you think about that? Yeah that's Kinda like one of like two or three in the book when I was a bit like what does he just write that? Yeah I wasn't expecting brains the road. But then I like once he's already blown. That's at Austin. Yukon of it follows up there would be somewhere under glad she's told US hours. So what happens then? Gets the ball I'm assuming then they find out, he's got some brains, the road and a matronly people are like but what was the young lady is going to a bowl? They will see rains in the word may do it. That's where you get a bit of exposition dot e once he gets the pool he stops being mysterious 'cause we get his name it's that he's the monarchy of Fidel and he's the son of guys also being very notorious the duke of Avon who data. Find out his quite significant role and kind of the only person that seems to exert any fear of a terms of like what his opinion is on on his actions. Otherwise, he doesn't care what anybody thinks. So that's where you get older backstory, his aunt fanny and you meet his cousin Juliana. What do you think about Juliana because she sometimes does this she'll put two contrasting feminine types in the same book Jillian sort of represents the kind of what you would think of the typical romantic. And Hair actually is is subtly commenting on that throughout the book it's a big theme on what is Real Romance and what is what people like to think of as remnants. A lot of times she comes to the conclusion that real romance is this kind of understanding humid that people have between each other. But what do you think about the too feminine examples John Mary Chat Net memory like learn what? She wants is Congress to be with for feet on for a man to be really mean to her mistreat are essentially which I thought was a bit questionable kind of thing and then I guess Miss China she's really good. But as he kinda just does apologize for does too sir. I thought she was strong character the most of it and she is pretty good but then she does kind of like. It was my fault. He kidnapped me and slap me in the face because I was being bad. It's like what the fuck Utopia Rosary. But. It's interesting because I think she does a very realistic idea of of who yes. But she still loves him basically she's in love with him before this happens. So she kind of makes a lot of excuses when however she talked to him in spite of what she knows are his floors she doesn't Momentus is him in a weird way. Please do not not still at the ball in the beginning of the book. One funny thing is well was on finance complaining to a friend of his father's huge avenue. Do you remember him from these old shades? Devil's cub is seen as a sort of sequel to that book. She talks about the what she's that. He's always having because he's got every form of Isis Fidel guy according to her you know he's always getting to Jules he's always. Whatever mischief a young man does as kid up to get an she says orgies and he orgies funny and she goes Oggi's you pray do not ask mole. I wonder if they meant real orgies because you know sometimes these books they talk about people making love like they went on the corner and made love and I don't like I think making a full on sex but obviously, it's not that I think it's like kissing an canoed lingo. To ask about this is like a Giuliano someone else I'm gonNA bring onto pretty badly. So the developments of the fast to dances and when I came to an end, he took her off two convenient cover made intoxicating. Loved her. That's what has repenting sex or the thing I don't think it is I think it's like maybe making out at. Makes me real innocent till something because I, mean they talking about orgies early on so maybe Okay. So next we meet his mother Leonie. And they're concerned because there's a rumor going around that he's become mixed up. This seemed to be totally okay with him messing around with these women's prostitute type people. But the fact that he's started going around with someone who they refer to US bourgeoisie that really upsets them because that will be scandalous. So anyway, then you get introduced to marry the heroine. St Louis Turnpike. Remember little with Mary Cana human her. Now she wins that goes nuts or not gusty, but he's he's one of the. Toughest Years Vidal I think isn't it? Because she's very straight laced and intelligent on she enjoys intellectual pursuits as to her sister who is very much in our guys not. Severe is gorgeous but dim gold. POSH SPA that didn't she and so the mother was from the sort of lower class and he was a disgraced his family by marrying her mom her uncle is so giles China. Yeah. He's a big general and he paid for her to go to. Among just displays of her because all she is concerned with is getting them married off and it seems to her that this she wasted her opportunity. She could of mit like important families and things like that. She's chosen to come and live with a modernist which I think kind of speaks to her character. She didn't just decide to go and live in a posh will that she could have yup. Because, she doesn't have the money. So I think that the implication is if she if she made an effort, she could have ingratiated herself with her uncle and gone and live with him. Maybe it seems to be a sense in which she feels like it's at ut to look after the household the mothers quite frivolousness always overspending she's always having to borrow money from her brother and they're always spending money on Sofia Sofia's gown so that she can try and attract the piston she. She mentions Marianne Elizabeth Gunning who. At this famous, a pair of Irish. Twins from the Georgian era hugh rose from being quite put to to marrying very very well, she's not as beautiful as her sisters but kind of like if she made a bit of effort, she could she could really do make something on the opportunities. She's had short they kind of make a lot of fun of the mother and Sophie, but it was a very real consent women just had to marry. Well, it is. The predominant concern stays the I guess that's like A. Thing I didn't really concerned about much because I just hated the entire time. These guys are horrible I despise them. I guess if that is like a real concern getting married off, that may be married to Celtics one by searing intellect. She says she wants to marry for love. The love thing seems to be important for her but that does seem to be something that the mother to be like an extravagance. She that is Mary. Had Common Sense to and what man wanted the plainly metro fact when he could enjoy Sophie as delicious volley. So to recap the son of the Duke and Duchess of Evan Makia Fidel as cup, not only for the accessors of his father but for his own wild habits as he's paying court to a middle class girl Sophia challenger, he also participates in a rather impromptu jill, the outcome of which forces him to leave the country. He intends to bring Sophia with him as his mistress. But her straitlaced system airy has no intention of allowing her sister to be ruined. Okay. So let's move onto the scene where del He's drinking and gambling and he's the bank. So what what did you think of that scene as rigging issues guy? Yeah I thought it was. I like Mr Common Law as he doesn't need. Missed a common is Juliana. MARLINS squeeze. She's Fidel's cousin a right little mix. One of the fun things about this noble is the contrast between her and Mary are sensible heroin and Fidel and Frederick Common. Fidel is impetuous and passionate and Mr Communist solid and conservative though Frederick is well born genteel. He's not a ton and so John is having trouble convincing her mother Fidel's on lady. Funny to let them become engaged. Naturally she's hatched a plan to get Frederick invited to Paris and she wants Fidel to help. Is it Mr Coleman as I pronounce. It common I've been calling in common. Name because like he's GonNa come and Balsa Mr. Coleman accidentally named again but if this. Makes Sense I. Don't think he is common I. think he does come from a good family they just not that well off I think influential he comes out as a kind of an interesting character because initially I just as a bit of you'd read when you first meet him thinks he's just a bit of a Saif any very serious as well. On the confidence of adults car to do does Mary's I think because he's very very, very moral to the point of boringness in a sense I didn't i. Think he's a good. Actually touched on a very, very important seem that she brings up by the end, which is that on paper Mr Coleman and Mary should be perfect for each other who just like Juliana and Fidel Because, they're these kinds of romantic characters. But in actual fact, Fidel detests female that's always cook koetting and being flirty and manipulative. He's drawn to marry straightforward honesty and commonsense opposites attract saying almost word too. So that one. I like it. When he goes, you know he's getting ready drug, but he's he's really commandments. They make almost like virtue of the fact that he gets plastic, but he still took lean control. They find out that he's supposed to be doing this race that he's been talking about and they are just like what you've been drinking all night will become my loved one mocked Fidel drive bist drunk asking I caught people are still using using that excuse even back then he does drive people as the evidence that I mean if I drive drunk on my bike normally not that that. Good. What's the outcome of this? This shooting calls the sky pisses him off chism cheating. You're teach definitely treat it, and then he's on my honor, shoot you with my gun. If you call me a tease again, it goes again than they have a dual is the common who selects pistols emotional no one wants to be the second of disqualify 'cause they both tried to talk him devoting that he's a fool to do it because the marquee obviously recently slain someone any Scott a reputation for being really good with his pistol and also he proves that he's good even in his drunken say. Hey shoots. It looks like he's just shut the mirror but didn't notice that one of the three candles that let has has been unlit. So he space shot flame of the canned. Good. And that's kind of their way of measuring whether he's up to the task. So they have the Joel, he gets shot and. Goes home does details race Oh, doses right has the list face meantime I'm GonNa, get back his father's already really pissed off. He's like come on dude you're supposed to be keeping a straight listed. The interesting thing is is that he hasn't even wish a petition he used to before he met Fidel smother be like nine satanic sky because he he had this terrible reputation but but it's mullet he's annoyed than that. He's being a bit. It's the demand that he's doing things he's ages thinks like missing around the bourgeoisie go it's like one too many things that's kind of causing him annoyance. So he tells them to exile himself to France for awhile what's the worst parental rebuke Eve had? Off My friend's mum to buy a man, is like those big Chris Respect Ninety S, and that was pretty So they like that's ridiculous at knows grounded for a long time for that. That doesn't seem to have bad goes pre time being like I would Yoyo like my friends one was to my parents what was your child during his Munster? They didn't exile you to another country does that the bombs from Egypt overseas alike rebukes when I was very young where light you got the? Kind. Of thing which I guess West than like exile other than that. Yet. Nothing too bad. I was going to get child laughing. So it's it is interesting. How much palace of executive people by not doing very much. It's just reputation that makes his son just seems to be, but he obeys him only person that he sort of like, okay. Fine I've got to go but he plans on doing. His thing before it's right Yep to take sophie with him at the. Yeah basically disgrace Business because he doesn't intend to marry her at all. He just wants to take her as his mistress basically and Paris most. Well I. Don't know if they would have considered it. Then those days I think it seems to be like a common practice for young men at that time. But then he has a genius idea of leaving her notes. House hoping he gets the UNDIS- waiting outside her house eleven oversee. Someone else. The Hell if falls into MARY'S HANDS INSTEAD OF SAFINA's hands because just as Miss Mischa she just wants to take his place and mimic copper but a meme say that they had come hoping houses the in order to make adult to stop loving socialist. Hut I think that was the main thing was I think she wanted to pay the vulgar that he's completely put off and he he never has anything to do with sister again because she wants to protect her in in that way she feels very bad about it in terms of like hunting he sort of asks are you in love with him and she says I like him very well, I do not mean to have anyone very much I'm. Sure, there's more comfortable if one doesn't. So that sort of set to mind risks that she's not because she has office realized she's attracted to him, and so she's kind of questioning her motives for doing this and it's sort of a mind at rest when a sisters clearly you know she doesn't care who he is. She just wants to to kind of bag keen Mary dons a disguise and goes with Fidel intending to reveal herself once the hub. To brave thing to do considering anticipates being left stranded when Fidel realizes he's been duped. However when they end up in a new haven in and she attempts to Booze Fidel into thinking she and her sister cooked up a plan to punish him for intending to make sophia his mistress instead of making an honest woman of her. It doesn't go to plan. The Dell in fact, abducts Marianne a fit of Pique telling her she can just as well take Safina's place. So what did you think about the scene in new haven in the pub where she kind of reveals herself to him pretty horrible as Wesley Again I was kind of like a kind of light it before that it was a bit of also but at the same time, he killed guy in the caravan because he was trying to rob him he killed guy because he's like coming Msci. But then this time he's like I'm GonNa get you drunk. nine. I'm going to France because the Mike you. It's tall thing about how ungoverned temper and he gets so angry that she's done this that he decides he's GonNa punish share by dragging her sort of almost forcing her like not almas forcing her to be his mistress. You're under storm reputation England Tony Won. I. Think the most disturbing bit was where he sort of puts his hand around his throat. Any kind of squeezes annoy how strong he is. Yeah I'm a man do what I want. Yeah I think. There is a lot of undercurrent in a lot of these romance where it's very popular to have this kind of dominant male thing or had to accept that in the book to enjoy the rest of knows that a book that is the thing I think you have to. Appreciate these somewhat dated elements in in order to enjoy. But I still like the fact that she was very much in command of us up once she dropped the ball get thing very soon she can't help herself. She just falls back into her normal character. There's a moment where everything changes though she's naked gun while they've been driving along. This is when they reach France though and that's where everything changes because up until that point he has seen his he he still believe she's doesn't believe her. That, she was really trying to save his sister because he thinks she sort of playing at being coy when an actual fact she knows the school and she wanted this to happen all along I. think that's kind of the thing that's supposed to mitigate the fact that he is entry abducted because in his mind, this is what she wanted. She wanted to oust and sort of get in bed with with the marquee. I mean it doesn't make it any better way did, but that's his kind of thinking. He was advancing towards hat. She brought right hand from behind and level the pistol. Stand where you are. She said if you come one step nearer I, shoot you down. He stopped short where did you get that thing? He demanded. Out of your coaching Johnson, is it loaded? I don't know said Miss Chattanooga incurably truthful. He began to laugh again and walked forward. Shoot then invited and we shall know for I'm coming several steps narrow my lady. Miss China saw that he meant it jeter is and resolutely pull the trigger. There was a deafening report and the Marquis went staggering back. You recovered in a moment. It was loaded. He said cooling. Miss Challenges is flew up. She saw the Dow. was feeling his left arm above the elbow and dismay she watched a red stained grow up on his sleeve. She dropped the pistol and a hand went up to her cheek. What have I done she cried Have I hurt you badly. He was laughing again but quite differently now as though he were really amused. You've heard told plan songs war more than you've had me. He answered. Ms Challenge said guiltily. I am sorry. I did not know it would make such a stir. House is began to twinkle. You've spoil his beautiful sal and you spoiled my no less beautiful coach. I know said Miss China hanging ahead but after all it was your fault she said with Spirit you told me to do it. I may have told you to do it, but I can't say I thought that you would reside his law chip. You shouldn't have come any nearer she said severity obviously, you agreed it began to strip off his coat. I make you my compliments I. Know of only one other woman would have had the courage to pull that trigger. Who is she inquired? Miss John My mother. Come, and bind up your handiwork. I'm spoiling Oakland songs carpet. Miss Channel came promptly took the handkerchief he held out there. Are you sure. It's not serious. She has anxiously it bleeds dreadfully. Quite. Your I observed that the sight of blood don't turn you queasy. I am not such a fool as China began to roll up his sleeve. I feel the laces ruin my lot. Am I hurting you not at all said be doubt likely This challenor made a pat of a road handkerchief and bound the wound up tight with my lords. Thank you. He said when this operation was over now, if you will help me to put my coat on again, we will talk. Do. Think you better put it adds channel no doubt fully perhaps it may start to bleed again. My good girl, it's the various scratch. Said Down I. Was Afraid I'd kill you confided Miss Jonah Grin. You're not a good enough shut my air. He struggled into his coat and then pull a chair to the fire Saddam he said. She hesitated he drew one of his own pistols from his pocket and gave it to. Shoot maybe that next time he recommended, you'll find it easier. She sat down but though she smiled a voice was serious when Johnson. If I shoot again, it had better be myself. She said. He leaned forward and took the pistol away from her. In that case, I'll keep it. and that's what makes him like he sees this bravery that she has analysts cruised him that that's far. She doesn't want to have his attention forced on her and from that moment on, he's like Oh bugger and even says the national take lead to inform your mom, the members of your parent and sister are neither those of persons of quality and those are virtuous females. You up on the other hand off apparently thermos and gently bread. And Continue to legit with a flash of anger it is not my custom duct respectable young females. I did not want you to abduct me this challenge pointed out I am very sorry for your mistake and I fear that my own conduct may have been partially to blame. Your conduct said, the mark was crushing was damnable. The man as you assumed at new haven were those of the various trollop. Your whole escapade was rash wanton and judged if I had used my writing the school you as I promised. You would have had no more than your justice sets. Miss Chana at very straight in our chair and look steadfastly down into her lap. I could not think of any other way to keep Safai say from you she said in a small voice. Of course I see now that it was madness. She swallowed something in our throat. I never thought that you would take me instead. You out a little. Replied Democracy irritably. I may be a little fool retorted John Matab spitted, but at least I meant it for the best. While as you odd, you met nothing but wicked mischief right from the start you try to ruin fire and when I would not let you, you ruined me instead. I quit me said he lordship goalie I don't ruin patterns of your quality. If you call me a respectable young female again, my Lord you will induce fit of the vapors in me interrupted Miss China with a spirited. If. You had discovered my respectability earlier it would have been the better for both of us. It would indeed he agreed. Miss China hunted for handkerchief and blue. Her little knows divinely. It was a big action. In, her place afire would have made play with wet eyelashes. Further, survive would never have committed herself to sniff. Miss China undoubtedly sniffed. Lord Fidel whom Feminine Tears the VET UNMOVED? With. touched. And like why do people deserve to be adopted if they're less respectable less that straight to he's Very strange ranger morals this mammoth thing. Yeah I don't know how much of business she she really really is to research has stopped. So she was very very, very key into the time and the customs and the way people thought about these types of things. So it's interesting because we're looking at a through to a double land looking at it through the lens of someone who's writing in the sort of twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and then she's looking at it through regency is. Writer. Marinus. In an article for tour DOT COM talks about the difficulties of reconciling Fidel's terrible behavior with his romantic hero status. Murderer. Alcoholic. Drunken carcass driver abductor, and rape of women. And yet. I find myself liking. Him. Even as I know. I really really. Really. Shouldn't. Mary continues. Fidel. is undoubtedly the worst of a bad boys that turned out to be heroes and is even worse in some of her bad boys who would turn out to be well, bad boys. But his real redemption begins when he recognizes the qualities of Mary China. Sarah Wendell off of everything I know about Love I learned from Romance Novels Expands on this point addressing the issue of class in her review of Devil's cub for the smart bitches trashy books website. Quote. The questions of what is nobility and who has it, and why create the underpinnings of this novel. Nobility to hair as equality not determined by both status by by character. In. The beginning Mary has more nobility than the marquee, and while he's a much higher social status, he has to become worthy of her moreover Mary's nobility is a product of own generosity and bravery as well as for intellect and transcends her own status as well as the negative influences of her very shallow sister and her ambitious selfish mother. So of Adele now faces a quandary with Mary refusing to marry him because she knows he's offering to save their reputations and gunshot wound to contend with. What now he falls into either I think through not properly tracing the wind is he's like Oh tis scratch. Then the investors obviously she has three M. so app starts on the cheese seasick and eastbound looking to half. But now it's ton around as she's after him an he's sending Dr Way and then she's saying, no, don't come in and everyone seems very kind of amazed that she's actually commanding Bedell in that way. You'll see him in a societal light. Yeah. Exactly. What is quite lovely that she says it's. Of Her thing about what Israel Romance I mean to marry. One of the most romantic things that he does for her is to give her a like a bucket to Pukhan when she's when she's really sick on the way over your she. So grateful for for that bucket and for him sort of looking after her and forcing her to drink some brandy when she's really out of it, and that's of kindness. Soul consideration is the thing that that really deepens her affection for him and also, and he for her when it comes to how she's takes charge of your slightly the maternal edge to it because you. Know She's looking off damn and she's almost sort of tricking him into taking stuff because you know she'll make him some gruel and sanded it up the servant. He'll tell them to get away with that girl, but then she comes in and she'll well, I did make it by hand for you but I guess we don't even want to try it. That's fine and she kind of walked towards the door and then you'll be like she's incessant rattling and give me the spoon oqail it. Yeah. Yeah. The homer tunnel thing is quite like a strong theme that runs through his any any he seems to respect his parents. It's GonNa be like through being like his patterns can you really get into and have a relationship with this possible? So You like the some really funny moments between him and her, and we'll say like when when the doctors there my Lord said amongst the things that he did not propose to burn the doctor with the details of his genealogy. He consigned the doctor, all his works severly and comprehensively described to hell and finished up his ethic speech by pungent and criticism of the whole race of Leeches. She's really good with that kind of human portraying these characters and how they attacked, and some of the joys of the book are between him and Mary with any of declare that you like. So Much Mary oversight by for on-the-spot, the book is by his Handy is talking to him about all the previous charge these ads. Like this positive. Toughest but he had a bummbly large hands. Fred had. So that slows you laughing out loud that thought was hilarious 'cause it's not good anything to do with the plot. It's just for enjoyment purposes. The book and he literally his ballet tens runs through all his previous MAZDAS and their physical imperfections hit to put sodas in in the in the stockings of one guy to make his cough Muslims look good. That's just imagining having imagine how he to put Salt Daniel. Pants to give yourself some on the idea rec- guys. We'd all these like in every way and has no lead fatty the makes his job easier which I think is really nice. Speak like the exchanges between him in Mary though as well and I think that they start showing its in those exchanges that he started seeing this she brings a totally different side in him. You know he goes are not in the least afraid of what I may do to are you not at the moment says she admits it. But when you when you have broached your second bottle, I owned some qualms and he says, let me inform you that I am not considered dangerous until the third watch I'll. Problem is. Able. See Mike She's His mistress only GonNa have some things going on says you're telling saying that knowledge will be disgraced? Yeah. I guess you to marry anyone lacking his solution is to marry her I think because he feels these honor bound to marry him because he likes her is well. Why does she object to that scene as how she's acknowledged that she has she's actually love with him. She feels a has father would disprove be the his mother will disapprove I think see that she doesn't want to him at equals. Up in the middle because she feels like she's not worthy of him their social status is not equal. The Georgia power's he realizes that she is actually a school friend of his cousin Julian isn't it? And so he decides that he's GonNa he's GonNa take to Juliana and then they're gonNA pretend that she's being Giuliana this whole time. She's also going to go to Paris to meet Mr Chairman and get married with him I. Think She's been told she's not to see him. She's been exiled to France by mother and unbeknownst to on Fannie Mr Komen followed her to France and they are pursuing their relationships there. So if Adele goes off to the bull, he needs to Yana and bring her back to to see Mary and do not agrees to do this. Do you think that that would be plain sailing from the Fidel's GonNa Find A. Pasta somewhere in that time, it was very difficult. But there's a spoke in the wheel. Mary doesn't want to marry Fidel because she thinks he's proposing out of guilt and because she's fallen in love with him, this idea is intolerable. Also Komen. Juliana having a problem to when they got their. And Juliana they. She's GonNa worry that he's not being forced enough not going getting intriguing like United Damsel. Should be a strong man. He should be able to stop face every now and then and he's like you know everybody would do any of that. So. Make me. She's she's very happy that. Let's face it Juliana is a bit of an idiot. Already much for each other but I know I have to. Avoid. But until you realize that actually what what he secretly wants is someone who's going to be the sort of typical what are considered feminine stereotypes of being like we kinda clinging to him which Mary doesn't isn't you know she doesn't do that she's strong and kind of quite commonsensical. Later, Mary loons the Truth About Mr Common which is that as he puts it for all his prosaic bearing, each church to love with the romantic, which would fidel a very figure ferment quite lacked. June. This is why she's quite problematical character I mean that co traders very charming and quite bubbly in frivolous. She's very strong willed in this instance, she wants what she wants. She doesn't realize that by flooding with other people she she wants him to come in like be dominant and kind of start fight with the other guy. She thinks someone like Fidel but actually she wants someone more like. Man. There's something in her that recognizes that he's a good honorable guy and I suppose that speaks to something better at her character than perhaps she exhibits but it's very difficult because she is such a flat and she such a Brat I think you know. Maybe. She could could not have made love with someone politician goes. Having A, we'll never know we'll never know I. Guess whenever she wants him to accompany policy he doesn't want to go. He's very jealous of her cousin, the Duke Divall May, and he says I don't want you to go there because he's going to be there and I'm tired of flirting with him. So it just to please me do me the solid at don't go. That is like a red rag to a bull and she's just like he caught. Tell me what do even if she wants him to. which I find really confused. It must be really exhausting. comic ridiculousness right now doesn't. He goes to the House Mr Common that is not Fidel and Mary's they're reading a book by the fire and he's kind of like West Juliana. She's a ooh. She wants to the Party with you didn't she Well Clinton not around. They have a big thing yet. The they talk more about how situation he's story file because he knows it all can be very dish I'd say that's an accurate ten then. Going to the Juliana and that's gang and then each house Yuliana. got is she doesn't see what she's doing. She's GonNa lose common, which is pretty far catches her in the of being made love to as you mentioned truncating love to buy the the other guy I like the fact that he says to have you ever been to bowl know of a small room where you can be quite alone. And she's like, no never. So, she's obviously a goalie. Gets up to lots of hijinks. So then Komen rucksack and he sees no luckily not making love to the development but canoodling flirting with him. And he's kind of pissed off understandably but they have this massive bust where they just really goes escalates very quick. Doesn't it? You're just seems strangely they're going to listen to Franz, and then in about two seconds decide they don't want to be. Liberal up not any that. Yeah they they're insulted each other so. He's like I never realized was such a shallow person and she's kind of like. My family thinks you're nobody. Nobody with the brain that. What he was a ninety S. Really scorched the attorney. For someone is supposed to be so logical he makes this really drastic decision immediately after that decides to ask Mary to marry him the most run away. So He's like Oh this is the only way you can get out your predicament. I'm a nice man I'll be nice. He doesn't really want to do it but he's he knows. Baby banks chivalrous as well like he sees that she's in this predicament where enhance mind she's terrified of Adel and she wants to escape his clutches doesn't WanNa. Marry him. So he feels like he'll be doing the noble thing by saving this young woman from a lifetime of whatever abuse. which is undesirable in circumstances at the same time he's so angry in her I think it's an act of desperation. I'm it's really cheeky as well because the Dell has told him that he has located a pasta in. Dijon. And he's like well, Vidal Ready told me he knows of a pasta. We might as well use that. She assists Gimme nights think about it in the next day they. While Carlos is happening in London this is when the only end is. On. Local. Yes. Rip It on like going off to. This whole mention of Dijon gas, kind of united site. But what's in Dijon? Those are good. He was really funny. I. Kind of wish that he'd been in more of it because he's such a good character I love that whole riff I was just a genius comedy thing 'cause basically his mother and Andrew Pitt, sit off to to Franz to try and avoid the scandal and help Adele covered up before his father finds out. There were terrified of this father his he seems to you know. So they go to defense or they can find out the lady Juliana Infidel have gone in pursuit of the to renovate AIDS going to on repeats dislike why John Leoni is like what stop hopping doesn't matter why they've gone to design. That's that's where we going into town people go there. Was Really. Good. He just took on the ridiculous characters but like. With the wine and stuff he's he's not he's just a bit. It's just funny how he doesn't really care about any of the other stuff that's going on. But how does the climax down who quit two carriages pursuing the reluctant, patrolman's. and. They're all heading to dijon. So Giuliana. Doll discover that those two run away. And then they set off to chase them. They've already go ahead, stop then On the foster. Foster's mind alive even heads off to them as well. Then yeah. So this is another big thing about how you realize that the doll and areas to be scuttled and Komen and the other person's together. So Colin's writing one carriage and he's going. and Mary's like speed up speed up speed up. Whereas dollars getting rid when he lost, and then John is trying to slow down because she can't deal with it and buy a nice nice one as well. And also Marikana takes control of the times when she because she sits, she can speak better French than Ken and he actually finds the fact that she's not falling into a fit of vapors and. Funds have been annoy. He wants to be able to be the sort of the big man who can comfort her. You wants to be able to enjoy this. Action of saving her, but she doesn't give him the. She doesn't give him this enjoyment. She's a very commonsensical. It would seem silly to her to kind of wasted time by. Two will into the debate because whereas fanny being jolted Ronald, the coach of adults is just like God you're awful you know what I mean. We just stopped five minutes. So I'm rattling around and she she she has a huge tension on the side of the road and I thought that was quite amusing as well. You can always going to say that Mr Clemens less progressive. Doll fools very strong women who Isn't afraid to tell them what to do whereas? Communist. Bray as you said, he just wants to be with someone who look to him to be the MOM. Yeah. Asked mythical creature. said. They get to this pub where they gonNA wait for the cost to to come and visit them. Monday on, they will converge. So Leeann Rupa before Leeann report arrive Julian swords because they've decided to pretend that they've already been married so that so that that will then obviously not have any reason to carry on pursuing her but of course, it backfires because of his legendary Tampa. Is Like I. said, we'RE GONNA we're, GONNA fight to the death now. Okay I miss the Communist very much. He doesn't down because these special equals. Ability. had. These like Komo. GonNa I'm GonNa take this funding for nothing. But that's still five anyway. The point you as a reader realize that actually the Dell it's it's moved from being something that he feels bound to do marrying Mary to being something that that actually he's an now he's realized now that she's the one for him, and the fact that she is now married to this guy who basically stole her out is. Is just maddening to him and the two women in the room act very differently. Juliana very much cowering and the. Manufacturing and that sets them cower behind the table Mary's very much turn break it up. So she runs in the middle with. chopped. got. So what are you just? Stop. There she pours a jug of water over them that doesn't help. That was quite money. Grows up more or less that makes him look even sexier who got. Western moist fighting. Spasm on and and. Then she got. When she got stops very brave of the united. I think she sees that they so angry that one of them is. Most likely common is GONNA DIE And so she decides to to risk in life by just running in trying to throw a coat of the sorts but in doing so she gets stabbed by the Dow in the shoulder not bad I feel like any other book she would have died at this point and that would have been like a really tragic story. A CAUTIONARY TALE That doesn't happen on. It gets better as I get MSA I. thought that was quite cool. I. Thought in her as a character I. It did slightly annoy me though when off they've kind of resolved issue 'cause they admit at that point that's not married. Infidel consciousness grabs her in his arms because she's kind of swing a bit because of this being stabbed. Yes well, I don't think it was a terrible wind, but he's kind of like. Saying my love my love kind of thing and she she's I would have thought of that point. She'd be like, okay, he does love me. It's okay for me to kind of go it will these hesitations have been instead of doing that once Leoni ripped arrive who she over his talking about Oh because risky him from this Bush was e- She once again, bug is often runs away and you kind of think to yourself isn't she definitely could have given him the benefit of the doubt about point I mean at least let him explain some things she has. I guess I have to walk in the actual devil. The yeah which I thought I. Mean I didn't think it was a mazing coincidence that he happened to be. At the pub that she ends up, she hops on this kind of stagecoach was something your she's only got a little bit of money and she says, how far does this go? I'll go that far and then she's trying to get a Roman on in this in they basically see her but dragged state they're kind of like telling you hook. You has. To calm, it's your talk round. would be in French. Accent because they would be there. Let Disease. Get. Out Those tariffs? Embarrassing. Those charm What's his name? The JUKU? She needs to do grabble who is yeah he helps it again run he invites Cincinnati hesitant she's just not get this and then they get talking and she tells him the whole story in which she's also very critical of the type of carrots the Japan is. Apart I I think. They kind of guests who it was. Yeah. The very beginning so it's going to be has not I think that's part of the enjoyment of the scene that because I think you as the read know that he's kind of actually skillfully getting eliciting information from her and she doesn't realize she just knows that he's a friend of her uncles. That's what his excuses to get her to confide in him. Yeah. You can go to see his expectations of what's happening of like he hasn't been was happens always out some things about his. Son's done and then when she kind of goes against some of that, eat very surprised one bit way saying, yeah, she shot him not GonNa thing and he's like while you're very strong character and I think at that point, he kind of through hearing the story he become comes I love on must be happy as well. This one point where she says if you know how to manage him, you can do it. You know he's just a cell keep away basically essentially he kind of policies that she's the one who will. To grow up of it, which again, little bit troubling in terms of those maternal overtones anyway I liked the moment she says Lloyd Fidel forced me to go on board his yacht and carried me too deep. The gentleman felt was quizzing glass and raised it through it. He surveyed Miss China may I ask what his lordships tactics in quiet I feel an almost overwhelming interest in the methods of daylight abduction employed by the Martin. Both good so that she tells him like you wanted to. Nicely. Yeah. Now she tells her the whole story bussed in. So He's like Oh oh my God Dad. Thing then they have like a whole like, oh, my God will dumb told told the Skyway, the whole story and his his dad. says. Very like Larry Woods resolves itself very well. I think basically she's expecting him to be like get out of my sight to discussing pushes the but he actually says you know I think that you you're you're GonNa be good for him again. I. I liked the fact that. He says, I have no doubt. I shall be weak enough to come on your return when you get back from Italy. He's talking about the honeymoon basically allowing bacteria and his eyes rested for an instant on Miss China, icomfort myself with their inflection that your wife will possibly be able to curb your desire. I admitted natural one for the most part to exterminate you'll. You're. Quite. Amazing. Like that's how. That's how lax ar that kind of thing. But so did you did you find that it was a satisfying ending? Was I. Guess Quite Standard ending happy ending 'cause Komen and Jalen F resolve their issues while having to like a I'll be more of a downside distress sneak a man. And I feel like they can out of it more resolution tool also theon mother. That she's just abandoning the out, but his wigs gone looks off the bit to some extent. I'm not that troubled by that in the sense that I feel like she's the kind of person you can take rich will look after them but you don't imagine that they'll spend much time hanging out with. Will and because they've been such like you said, sort of horrible you don't really mind that the not really part of the action. But yeah, I know what you mean. You wonder what happened to that maybe. So so what was your opinion like a general overview? Did you enjoy the experience of being introduced to Jordan hair and would you look at for any the? Didn't do these parents. It wasn't a particularly meaningful slash makes me think about much things afterwards kind of book, but it was an enjoyable read like a couple of weeks island road I mean I kind of desire to read the one about the and the other one. Now, who is good android could I call you convert Georgette hair or we probably have more than one book but I, did like style, it was written I didn't like kind of a low the message throughout the book which is like. Anti Women. I suppose it depends what you think the messages because it's kind of conflicting in some ways I think it is be a strong woman stand up. Kind thing. But on the other hand, the guy that she falls full has separate deep flaws in his character which quite difficult. For one read, it's become. Yeah. But then also making excuses for him and she does that when she's extended so his I just like saying leave wasn't his folks like adopted to me and tried to try to light you make me like maybe drink alcohol and gotten a boat I actually I was being really bad as well. I guess that's like I have been fab than she doesn't really have an ability to kwait actions with kind of religious reactions. Identifying kind of pretending to be someone is the same thing is like drugging someone on abducting them i. mean he was wrong. He does acknowledge that he is wrong to have tried to abduct a heat he himself talks about. Things I did to her were really terrible for respectable young female. But then again again, you are right in saying if she wasn't quite respectable the. Short life discarded by. So it's GonNa be like, but then it. Wasn't that big thing I think the humid throughout cutting through kind of helps to mitigate some of those problematic elements because she is always commenting and laughing at those traits in people and the the social stratification did actually enjoy the book. So non trying to be like Asakusa the. Yeah account use a concert. A. I. Hope you enjoy during our discussion of Devil's Cub. I had so much fun check into it about his alter EGO Fidel. So far, it's to convert out of three. What are your thoughts on the book get in touch via twitter and facebook accounts let us know. Next week will be speaking to author Jane Holland and Literary Agent Allison, Bonomi, about their lifelong love of. Hey It's a Fab chat. So don't be a gush smuggled juvenile subscribed. Don't Miss It. This episode was recorded produced an edited by me ceremony Tucson with production writing research help from base keen, and we'll dow from a reality for production support. Mike. Scott, game tons of emotional and editing assistance. Michael Mandela's edited recorded best bits and he did a marvelous job. Thanks also to Geraldine Elliott tweet of and everyone who supported me in creating this work. Thanks susie buttress in particular and the podcast community lodge foreign valuable support, and advice. Ms Accused in this episode is from amateurs. One just album to one as well as Jerome Alexandra's luscious message to bears tunes. Original music was composed especially for cost by me and Tom Chad. Fantastic voice tone include Sarah, Golden Helen Davidge and Korean crunchy. Putting contact info about them in the Shurmur. Thanks to audible extract from the audiovisual Devil's cub great by Michael. So, valuable at audible dot com to buy. Comments and take part in our discussions media where at fabled cases on instagram. That fable undisclosed gazes on twitter. Remember to rate review and subscribe can't tell you how much it helps more indie companies like us to throw. Today is a fable Jesus production.

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A Podcast by Any Other Name

Stuff Mom Never Told You

35:17 min | 1 year ago

A Podcast by Any Other Name

"Instead of an ad today we wanted to talk to you about a podcast that we think you might enjoy called family secrets which is produced by Dylan Super Producer Dylan. When Danny Shapira whimsically took a DNA test she was shocked by the results sore. She'd been told about who she wasn't where she came from simply hasn't been true. It turns out that she was the family secret. Oh so Danny launched a hit podcast family secrets which attracted millions of listeners in the first season because as it turns out just about every family has ecus Chris Liberating empowering and hopeful these stories will make you think about your own family and whole new way lutheranism scribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is anti fans the Mantha I welcome to stuff never told you production of iheartradio's how Stepford today we're talking about out name name yes. He's I love your the fries. I totally bought it. which is why everybody's like? I don't think the she's talking about on a really good actor. She's not at all all an act. Everyone speaking of acting y'all got to watch any premier movie called any in the city. Yes it was delightful thank you. I really appreciate the support. Everybody came out because I was so nervous. Yeah you didn't up. I was really I was nervous for you. There was a couple of things like oh no. It was funny because everyone was they would turn and look at me. Try Not to look at you and I would think further was so great job. Thank you thank you producer Paul. Yes yes maybe one day. It'll be available double why maybe okay well. I don't make any money from Youtube. I guess I'll just get it out to the public. That's let people see your work. I I need them to craftsmanship. Thank you because there's so much craft woman that Shit. I'm sorry craftmanship Jeez anyway. We're talking about. There is a point in that movie where one of the other characters is named. Danny and she says I asked her out. She spells it right like and I say well. I spell it Ludovic differently. We're going to get into that a little bit later but one of our most popular and controversial episodes ever since I've been on and I think probably ever was a women taking their significant others typically husbands last name so we wanted to revisit this this but this time talk about given names and family names and why it's so rare to have a woman with the suffix like a junior and the whole reason we're doing this is because one night I couldn't sleep and got to thinking about i Robert Downey junior and then other juniors and then there are no women news episode ooh. Yes and the short answer is the Patriarchy obviously right and before a lot of you right in angrily about why you chose your child's name. These are generalizations. There is research or not here to judge anybody. Name your child as you see fit right. We loud it. Yes that's feminists the choices what matters but we did want to discuss why society at large still views women and all things feminine even in names aims as lesser and there have been a few new stories about this lately after Serena Williams named her daughter Alexis Junior after the child's father Alexis this is Orelon who is the founder of read it there are a whole sections on mum's net about how to name your daughter after to the father when Nigel Lawson named his daughter Jello that's a great example father's first and last name a hard to imagine the inverse boy named after his mother Ed with her last name celebrities do have a lot of sway over naming practices Dakota and Shirley Shirley Temple Dakota fanning were more masculine names before the first famous people bearing that name were women and then it kind of shifted and they became more coded as Feminine Ryan Ryan Reynolds and Blake lively named their daughter James and Mula COONASS and Ashton Kutcher daughter is named Wyatt and then they're the gender neutral names like Paris Chris and apple and Blue Ivy etc.. I do appreciate the creativity sure I was named after my dad's mother but through a series of adoptions. I'm not sure what her last name name was so I'm not technically junior. I think it was great. It was not reese. which is my current last name right? I what I always say when Ascott to spell it yes like the candy I appreciate that and I actually have two names my Korean name in my American name. I sort of claim both for me. Keeping my original name was an important way. I'm trying to keep my origins and remember them but also have my crew and family name as my American Middle Name family name is Lee and that's my middle name now. You guys know so so much about me. I'm not will say I typically get called. Sam A lot which I do like because it's not automatically assumed to be female as because I wasn't sure if you liked being uncalled fan yeah so typically I find out which I think is a whole different thing people who are closest to me. Call Me Samantha. They don't actually shorten it and then people people who are not as close or maybe met later in life. Call Me Sam so and I like it. I'll just fine. When I was a kid. I wanted a name like that. That was feminine its full form right but masculine in its shortened form are gender neutral actually had roommates where our names all equal to be like. San Damn Joe something something like where it was all sounding very not masculine necessarily but at least new neutral right and no one else like yeah guess who's in there you'll never uh-huh Voshel unless you come and meet and then if you know us so but I'm also a person who's collected a lot of nicknames over my career of of my life and I would love to look into there's probably not any research about this but nick naming practices in different countries and among different genders right that works. I was GONNA say that the older generation I had several call me automatically saved me Davis junior so don't know they just like take something that's familiar from their past place in on sure yeah a lot of people. Just call me at all. That's a famous I junior. I I have a nickname for our producer. Andrew and he does not love it. Did you always have a nickname but this is the the best one. It's it's so long ago keeps growing every time my friends later asking about like what was it again. Eh changes established. I've got the core but I I keep adding to it. I'm not going to say because I think into the engine company before we get into the longer answer other than just the Patriarchy is why this whole naming thing with juniors and all that exist assist the main difference between junior and something like the second is someone with the junior suspects is named after someone still living typically the father while the second can't is usually not the father but the grandfather or uncle women typically don't get suffixes because of the common practice of taking the husband's last name after marriage so it was a very short the answer to this question. I kept me up at night but we did expound upon it a lot. George Foreman is an exception is opposed because all five of his kids are named after for them and I think the first one is junior and then they're like second third fourth. There was a commercial with him. Having all of his children around right confusion of his name came out or something because the way they're all that and I like how will and Jada Pinkett Smith Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith did it which they switched up the the daughter and the signs willow yes and Jaden yeah to me for a long long time to figure out who who was whom because it was not typical right obviously it was a variation not exactly the same but I appreciate that I did not know that until you minutes ago. Ooh when you told me because I knew their names just never put together really yes. I never put it together. I don't know and I I did WANNA. Put at the top here before we get into this. The names can be really powerful. They can shape how people see is and how we see ourselves a lot of our entertainment knowing a name gives hugh power over someone whether it's something like Rumpelstiltskin or a demon possessing you and you need to know their name is probably possessing girl because periods. That's my that's my theory right always about periods that one. I think that's I think it's also how they do the naming naming ceremonies in several different places. I think that makes it a pretty significant like this. You know with the monarch they make it a big deal. This is so easy they'd have to names should do lineage all about it but yeah. It's a powerful ordeal. Celebration Research has shown that liking your name can increase productivity self esteem and happiness it can impact your overall mental health and self perception and I know for me. I hated my name name for a long long time. I tried to change it. When I was nine years old. I went to the court and like get out of here. Young Young girl you. You actually went to court. I asked how I could do it and they said you can't unless your parents are on board because it was yeah I really they didn't like it. I wanted to change it to Gloria so I would have had a very different life and that's the power of a name glory indeed and and I do think it caused me to have low self esteem when I was in school because so many people mispronounced it commented on it or asked me if I was sure that's how I spelled it right. Yeah naming people can also be powerful. I've never named a person but I have named pets and it fell really important. I know it sounds on the same level but it did feel important like I was mapping out my dogs entire life. Well yeah actually growing up. I never named things because to me. It was a mental mental block but they were. GonNa Exist in continued exists could not link that too yeah because it gives it the real psychos late. I couldn't link that into being permanent therefore they didn't get a name. Kinda like in breakfast at Tiffany's name for to never names. The cat is just big SLOB. I think she calls listen or big slob fat. She's a Slob because she's like he's not owned by anyone. He doesn't belong to anyone. He's free and for me. That was the opposite but then as I got older then I realized Oh yeah naming thinks it'd be fun which is like peaches coach pleasant. She has a very significant name. It's talking yell at her properly. I name all kinds of things like my car has a name enid eleanor. I can't do that either. I always saw when enid eleanor meter endo and I'll share for I will. She's been my car since two thousand. I A lot of people do that. They put the significance on there because there's a deeper meaning and and that's why for me I never could get attached to things like that so it didn't make sense right now. Weird weird another thing that's weird is when I was dating during ring my dating days I used to say someone's name more frequently as a flirting technique and now I really don't know if it was successful just weird. I don't know I think there's a power to that especially especially if you say their name in a flirty manner or lightly knows once you make it ten syllables long in touch them touch. There's some insignificance to that okay there there are things like the US not in the dating world where we attach certain expectations two names names are associated associated with social status and aspirations. I know there was that a couple years ago that thing that came out that said your name might influence your occupation also I was looking through the names on that list and they are largely male names studies have also found that when it comes to politicians Americans I prefer candidates with similar names of course I'm sure that has to do with like memory factor as well. Bob Just Happy Bob. I'm not really sure I'm some Barbara. This is a fun name. I don't know about I don't think okay so also think of the racism and sexism inherent in hiring practices. We've all all heard about the studies that found that candidates with a name code has more traditionally black on a resume is less likely to be picked up for the job as opposed to more traditional Western white right name and I know that's also significant for people who are if any heritage if it's a difficult name to pronounce. They're going to change it altogether. So maybe a traditional Chinese name or traditional Korean name is going to change it into Philip right so and we will come back to that a little bit towards the end or another another fact the fact that women with more masculine sounding names are more likely to find success in male dominated careers a study found this to be true among judges and South Carolina where female judges as with names coded as more masculine have better chances of success as compared to their counterparts with more feminine names. This is called the Porsche hypothesis after a female character character from Shakespeare's the merchant of Venice in order to appear before the court. She disguised herself as mail. If we look at authors it's not uncommon for women come into use a male pen name or us not to be illegally. It's a bit more difficult now and I know because I looked into it briefly or their initials as JK rollings was advised to do you to not scare off young boys from a book written by a lead he right then she also change have a pen name for her murder mystery that was not or was it murder mystery yeah yeah they're murder mystery. Robert Kale brace enough last name but yes she did historically the practice of taking more masculine names has been acceptable and trendy for women. This is not not a new thing at all in fact some names that were once traditionally masculine became coded Feminine After Enough Women for the name Ashley Shannon Shannon are great examples and finally enough. One of the only site suggesting girls names for boys includes those names so it's all a recycled over the past decade the practice of giving girls boys names has been an overwhelming trend and also hyper masculine names. They're on the arise to like. Jack was an example. I saw J J X X. Oh Yeah Yeah but giving a boy a feminine name not so much at all in twenty seventeen two of the most popular boys names. Noah and James were given to about one hundred and seventy girls each the top ten popular girls names were given to as little as six boys as low as six points and that's the top ten giving a girl boy's name is seen as bucking gender norms but the traits a lot of parents are after when choosing a masculine name for a girl our strength or the cool factor and and desirable traits because masculinity in itself is desirable. This isn't say it can't be empowering girls at all. Um uh-huh. We've already said we like it right. I would've liked to but the fact that a boy's name is inherently better. That's the problem it's all well and good for girls to be associated with masculinity while still being feminine but for boys being associated with femininity is a definite negative this this is another example of a higher status group not wanting to take on anything from a lower status group in those those are actual terms that come up in this conversation and we have talked about this a handful of episodes actually in our final girls episode and the discussion around how the final girl not uncommonly has a masculine codename voted name or a gender neutral kind of name or in our video games episode and the practice of using a male or gender neutral screen name to avoid harassment something. I definitely currently did and what's still harassed so I know she's making sense it. one study found a connection between boys given more traditionally. Feminine Names Experiencing more difficulties at school and I mean it's kind of a joke parents to be running through the possible rhymes I an influx of a potential bad name so dude names good eighty names. That's a big thing parents to be will not tell people their names so they don't hear other people's judgment that's true in the beginning I can. I can relate to that vary on a very minor level. I reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where he's dating dating the woman and he doesn't name and she gives them a hint. She says can you imagine how tough it was growing up with a name that rhymes with stuff like a female body parts and he spent in so long trying to get it not to the very end. He's Doloresa name so another foul on another another. The study found that while women with gender neutral names were seen as more masculine boys with gender neutral names were seen as more feminine than another study suggested that girls with gender neutral names were more likely to take advanced. I GNAT inside the author of the website baby. Naming wizard received angry letters from parents who named their son Riley after she listed the name under both boys boys and girls section so she got angry letters from parents who named their son Riley saying those name for girls. I love the name Riley to you think as gender neutral now I guess I have. I have a cousin named Riley anyway. We have a lot more for you in in this whole name game but first we're gonNA pause quick break for word from our sponsor. Let me tell you about Pete who loved hockey and always wanted to play in the NHL Pete played since he was three and begged his mom to let him stay on the ice by some nights he even slept in his hockey skates. Pete practiced and practiced until one day when he was forty seven. Pete realized he just wasn't that good so he threw his skates in the trash but then you heard how Geico proud partner of the NHL good save money on car insurance so he switched and saved saved a bunch. It all worked out and we're back. Thank you sponsor there. Okay the longer answer to this whole question that I originally started with wire there. No Juniors female juniors it is throughout our history naming. Someone has been practical. It's been a practical thing I a family name to identify you as part of a tribe a tribe of people who had cactus tick by you and would protect you and then given name to separate you from the rest of your family sometimes boys in ancient Rome. That name was simply a number Bert. How what birth order were you for girls born in ancient Rome though their names often contained descriptions since they shared the feminine form of the Family Name often and minus the given name for example General Scipio Africanus. His family name was cornelius so his daughters got the names Cornelia Afrikaner Major and Cornelia Cornelia Africana minor big Cornelia in Little Melia. These are largely birth order names but then parents started naming children generation generation only after ancestors promotes cultures this followed patron NYMEX names coming from the father. Take Vladimir Putin his middle name translates. It's two son of Vladimir so he's Ladimir son of ladder. Beer and girls names were often derived from their father's names as well religious names were also huge. I know at one point. I can't remember the statistics but it was shocking. How many women were named Mary. It was a huge thing especially in Europe rip. There are several men named Francis Francis and John was the big one it was John Mary Jo Natural. Oh MHM well naming after the mother and the mother side however has historically become uncommon some with their mother's name in the eighteen hundreds often bastards yeah so they might not know who the father or he might not be in the picture. We don't claim him yeah. I guess even if you think about the practice in some countries of taking the last names of both the father and the mother is it still boils down to the names of two men the father's family name and the maternal grandfather and as the importance of family and religion has diminished names have become more a matter of taste which is nice. Yes there are of course exceptions to the rule here a few famous ones starting big Achilles Achilles as frequently went by son of status his mother the sea goddess probably because she was a goddess. His Dad was just the dude like he he was a higher fire up dude but uses a dude so we think of it as a power structure the goddess outranks human but human man outranks human woman of course then there's Nancy antsy Sinatra. She sometimes goes by Nancy Sinatra Junior. She's the daughter Frank Sinatra and Nancy Bravado Sinatra is still feels kind of more like it should be to her father though because her mother took her father's last name but maybe that's just that's just me then there's an Eleanor Roosevelt junior president. FDR's firstborn the only daughter and legal documents and frequently was referred to as the second and her mother senior child prodigy and author of in fourteen ninety two Columbus sailed the ocean blue winifred. Sackville stoning junior was named for her mother whom she toured with and then fragrance designer. Carolina Herrera Junior is named after her mother the fashion designer and then Dorothy folded the broadcast journalist made her daughter a junior another perhaps obvious obvious example we should mention is the real family where you have someone like. Elizabeth the Second Royal Blood Family Line being everything and then as I was researching with this it was fun just to hear about the phonetics of sound being feminine and Masculine and according to one study names that start with a hard fi domes are or as defined by definition dot COM any other perceptual distinct units of sound in a specified language that distinguish one word from another are more likely used for boys or Mel names while the softer phonemes so names are place where the feminine names as in Fact Sound Gender Association was the strongest and those who most highly endorsed that stereotype of men being tough and when women as being tender. I like the US and the in India I remember my friend group growing up we all we had a moment where we realize almost all of our names ended in avowal sound like the era and that's a pretty big one for right encoded name right we do have even more name stuff but but first we have one more quick break for sponsor. Hey listeners. We have another podcast session. We think it's one you really enjoy. It's called the outcast. The outcast is a weekly show exploring queer inquiry adjacent topics as they pertain into politics pop culture fashion relationships money and so much more is hosted out magazines friend. Toronto each episode deep dives into one theme or topic some I'm tight timely news others more evergreen and expands on out magazine's reporting each episode ends with the week in gay or week for short segment a wrap up of the week's guest yes news featuring a rotating cast of out staffers and other notable voices season one. We'll be twelve episodes and launched on July eighteenth tune into the outcast out magazine's first podcast cast you can listen to it on apple podcasts or on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcast and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Another aspect we wanted to discuss is changing your name as a transgender person changing your name is a harrowing arduous process and the law varies by state and by country but in the US it frequently involves going to probate court Pingu fee so not accessible for everyone being a resident of a state for a certain time period printing a notification in a newspaper also usually with a fee. You have to do that to announce the name at least a month in advance and giving the court or reason for the name change. If all that successful next steps involved changing your name with the Social Security Office on your license on your passport on websites at the bank with your landlord utility companies if you have any student loans and then beyond that changing your name there's a chance person is helpful for job applications or when meeting new folks as we discussed for better or worse we assign gender two names pretty frequently and a name can change how people see you. It is often one of the first public steps of transitioning not all trans people change sometimes out of choice because they already have a gentle neutral name aamer. Maybe it's not that important to them and sometimes out of fear or lack of resources it can and often does take years to legally change your name and the Gender Markers Kherson documents not to mention many of those documents don't have an option for non-conforming right and also wanted to mention dead naming as well. This is calling a trans person the name they had prior to through the transition. Don't do this now choosing a name and having people calling you by the name. It's hugely important. Validating stub is more truthful representation to call someone by their dead names even if you're talking about them prior to the transition is really disrespectful hurtful and can cause a lot of anxiety this boy endow and when it comes to police reporting violence against Trans people in using the incorrect names or pronouns impacts data which impacts funding and attention also just again to reiterate how difficult it is to actually be able to change the name yeah. They earned this yeah so this is who they are and I did want to say for anyone who's listening to this and thinking about about doing it but does not have the funds or resources or maybe overwhelmed. There are definitely nonprofits out there that specialize in this right right so go check that out if you have. I'm assuming you would have you know more than I talk about it but I did want to also there are people that do support you and and and I don't think people realize how significant of a process this was and I say this as a person who I when I changed my name. I'd illegally change the name from the Korean name to my by American name. It was significant because it felt like I belonged to a family right so I can't imagine filling like you've been mislabeled all your life and not be able to beetroot who you are and then being able to actually do it and for people to ignore that yeah how painful that is and just feeling accepted into a community because already they feel ostracized. This is with everything else. They already have to go through. It and I think the validates a small thing you can do. We as we as allies can do. It's not that big of a deal. Don't be a jerk jerk. Speaking of Jerks Donald Trump was elected. There was a panic to rush to change names on passports in the Trans Community to reflect gender identity before he took office stripped away protections around Trans and gender non conforming people because he's doing that. Yep when Caitlyn Jenner came out as transgender transgender the name and spelling variations thereof caitlyn plummeted in popularity so that shows just how far we have to come as a society society right another important conversation around names and naming names in black communities as we mentioned at the top there have been studies demonstrating job candidates with black sounding names and I say that with quotes are less likely to get the position even given qualifications that are the same up until the nineteen sixties. Anglo American names were the go-to Formosa Oh some African American children but in the seventies with the rise of the black power movement that change it was a way for black folks to differentiate from white people and it was a sign of resistance roots the book and resulting miniseries played a large role in this as well plenty of folks stuck to Anglo American names and these days the most popular names for blind children. Are aaliyah Gabrielle Real Kiera Cameron Jordan Nathan and plenty and plan to Sopa of white children don't have traditional Anglo American names apple and and just say it's a pretty overt example of racism unusual name for black folks are punch lines unusual names were white folks could easily be politician yeah a lot of our politicians if you think about it have very nontraditional name right and then you also have to look at and just being in the Chris System the racist idea behind the name is is actually a big part of the judicial system and I've seen it and I can attest to it and it's horrible and even just having to sit and review kids people who automatically automatically assume things with the name and with the conversation why the parent do this to them but just all of that it does and it's unfortunate that these these maybe historical names for them or generational names or something that they wanted to variation like many white entertainers today they get dean for and it is unfortunate that it says as a part of that we have to look at and consider why it happens yeah and I would love to come back in a future episode and bringing people on who can talk more about this on a related note. I did want to briefly touch on the process of anglicizing names which can and has been very harmful of violent active erasure of other other cultures for example Christian names for native Americans and African slaves and when I was in China a lot of students would introduce themselves with their Chinese name and their English name and they would tell me sometimes they would forget their English name. They respond to a Qassam. Sometimes they said they change like depending until it was called like they had to hear it called a few times and these English names are frequently chosen by teachers particularly English teachers in China and I I was thinking about this and I suppose I did have a French name. Spanish German Amo Mander name when I took those classes but they were only used in class not outside of it fifty the percent of Chinese students keep their English name when enrolling in schools outside of China I had a good friend from Taiwan and high school and I was offensively ignorant of the fact that she had Cantonese Sneeze name and an English name which she later changed her English name because she didn't feel any connection to it. a lot of Chinese given names are are words. I believe leave. My students gave me one. I hope they weren't just lying to me but I believe it meant some terrible candidate tattoo that yeah I know but in the US that's less common giving these kind of like word names and can lead to judgments also English. Naming Conventions are confusing confusing some words or names and some It's it's it's come up in our politics. Bill suggested that Chinese Americans adopt English names like bills have come up because they're they are a two confusing also pointing out the English name typically means White. Oh yes name but I did want to say some people when I was researching surging this. don't think it's a big deal or they. Don't they kind of like Louisville. Don't is it like I said for me. When I changed my name or my name was changed it was about fitting in of course I go back as an adult looking back on the shame factor of trying to be white yeah so it's kind of that both of trying to figure figure out who you are and trying to fit in so if you're accepted into community it feels nice but also sometimes. It's just really difficult to try to tell everyone how to pronounce your name really frustrating so it's just like you just call me just told me Mary Jane Doe I don't care whatever well and I was reading about why this is and it essentially Elliott's because business ard love to talk about that more to and I also would love to come back and talk about naming in native American communities. You know these because something else I was thinking about in this episode is when I I worked in on Australia for a while and I worked with indigenous communities in Australia and I got to see a couple of their naming ceremonies and they also gave me a name which I also know. I know what that meant because I was. I was there to document help document. Their gorge did feel like they chose it for me and it felt really powerful and this is how they see you. This is how you're GONNA fit into this community in just given the opportunity to witness that so there's a lot to talk about with me. What's in a name what's in the Oh apparently I ah apparently and we'd love to hear from you. Listeners any thoughts you have on names and experiences you have with names. If you've got any the interesting names in your life you can email us at steph media mom stuff at Iheartmedia dot com you can find us on twitter at mom's stuff podcast or on instagram at stuff. I'm never told you thanks as always to our super producer. Nickname withheld reports and the things to you for listening Steph Steph told you is the prediction of iheartradio's how stuff works for more podcast from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows and not GonNa talk to you a things. I slept for days and he's done. Hey Hey and you come on and sing with you. My Name is Danny Shapiro and I'm the host of family secrets secrets a podcast about the secrets kept from US secrets. We keep from others and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Family secrets is a show where you can hear powerful stories of heartbreak healing and hope wasn't a season to a family secrets on apple podcasts the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcasts

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David Spade, Cody Ko & Noel Miller, Dana White, and The Rainforest Cafe

KFC Radio

2:06:30 hr | 1 year ago

David Spade, Cody Ko & Noel Miller, Dana White, and The Rainforest Cafe

"It's another addition of K._F._C.. Radio brought to you by SEATGEEK. We got a big week of Barstool socializing coming up because John Mayors in town. I think a bunch of people go into the John Mayer Concert Really Yep. I'm sure if you want to go you can grab yourself. Tickets at seatgeek wanted be invited. Everything go pop punk has invited John Mary. I do care about John. I'm not going to make myself. That's crazy well. We're not social so I've been working on that. I haven't yeah I don't Oh we're going to talk about you in a second but he wanted to go by John. You WanNa go buy a ticket to pop punk at Mackay. He's a maybe they're on seek because with Zeki does is they had tickets available for every single type of live entertainment music sports parts comedy acting musicals all of it onshore you. Maybe even get some case you radio. Tickets live on sneaky. Maybe the secondary market action for us. Our next show is August fourteenth we did another Solo can't get in twenty four hours so maybe if you listen you. Probably I want you to come if you bought a ticket but you probably could make some money off that on the secondary pink because see Kika it's full transparency in the marketplace and you can find out how much if you WanNa make some money you can see the demand is is Jack up the price. Make a nice profit or if you're looking to buy tickets you can find people unloading. You can get the best price possible because it's full transparency. Also you can get ten dollars off when you use Promo Code K._F._C. so download the free seekie gap go to settings Etta Promo Code K._F._C. for ten dollars <music> often. Maybe we should do that. We we got a few cops. Oh there you go. Anybody really wants Craig Carton Shit Bro Gibran. Are you just sitting now. It's posture. What's your shirt? It is wild. Yes barstool goal dot com slash. K._F._C. looks like a bowling shirt. I've been wearing pretty nice search lately. This is not a you shirt. Will you mean this is like a Dan shirt. That's a big catch short sleeve button up which is just definitely a dancer answered but then it's like that's a dancer man. I don't think so sure I bought it with these. These are the worst thing about having nice shirts what it can't wear them a lot like I everytime awared that because they stand now title shirt because I wear like every other week people like you'd only wear that says more about this shirt that says about me you just remember it because so fucking does feel like you wear like three times a week right because I did last week. I had that black and white shirt. I can't wear that until like August awesome sure when I was a kid in like like middle school and high school I used to have like a Monday outfit because my role is accused like you can't wear it like twice in the same week. When you're younger so I would like? I wanted to wear it so bad. So I think Monday I can wear my. I like blue shirts. Whatever the fuck it was it was like Monday was cool outfit day because you don't want to repeat but now as you're older it's more than a week it takes especially when you're on camera and things and then people see you're on camera? You know what it probably. They're probably not wrong because you probably like. We probably released an interview a week later that you wore that shirt. Oh and it looks like you were wearing it yesterday. You know what I mean so they're probably it totally does for the fans. Feel like you wear like three times a week. Release I did. I put the easiest seizure in the back of my closets everywhere that all time the one that shirt twice since I bought it now three times listen. Don't let the fuck in decide we gotta you gotTa. I bought sixty six different shirts like this and so I think I'm GonNa go one of this style per week but where like so then then it's like I'd say you've wanted the market and go six days in a row then fucking. They're comfy their flow either nice shirts. They're stylish. It's not a you shirt. It's a make sure you don't ever wear button if it's fucking stylish so it's insured. It's a bowling shirt cooler last shirt therefore me shirt what is it. What is it like a we on there? I don't know what I'm GONNA say. It's the sun and the ocean and the beach hieroglyphics. It's pretty cool this hieroglyphic seven you. Are you know obviously is to me when you talk about that was definitely a cave to me. Glick Glick that is the goal of cave skin has a very American southwest. I appeal Pueblo as you're bowling. It's not sure by the way I'm drinking orange juice. I saw that was going to talk about that. Why you ever like remember somethings like super fire like I haven't had orange juice in ten years? I I drink orange juice pretty regular. I drink orange juice. I drink the orange juice glass of milk yeah well. I mean milk like my McDowell's people there so weird that I drink milk well you know he he's a legitimate poile. He'll he'll drink milk and eat kraft singles and potato chips as a snack. It's disgusting but he'll crush milk because he's throwing anymore. Kito life shut up Brendan so people in his office have been working out a bit and being healthy Tommy and yeah everyone's Kinda got a little thing going on right Tommy Frankie. You better not be ready to throw some shade right now because you're leading the charge of like beings new person walk. You know that's not what I'm doing. I look I encourage you to better yourself if you're GONNA if you WANNA do it go ahead but the funny thing is when people people eat healthy for like a week and then this is universal universal. This isn't any specific to anybody in the office referencing significant since it's just it's going to be an expert. It's so funny. I'll be like you'll get pretty good. It's like what I've been doing that seven in less than walk into work yeah AH appropriate fucking what you've been doing lose some weight I got it's not reinventing the wheel and the number of calories coming in is not as high as doing how you lose some weight instead of going to lunch at McDonalds getting salads six hundred calorie difference Prince. I'm aware thank you very much I detail. I know how weight loss you know what else I don't need by the way if you're sick that's fine. Just tell me you're sick. I don't know the details of people be like Oh. Something didn't agree with me like it's is coming out of both ends. It's fine. I know how sick work you missed work with six different at work what you want the sympathy and you want that you're like. That's why I was out. It's so hard I did it. I was thinking when you're sick. Oh you're hurt or you do not have a great day and it's affecting your work all of them yeah. It was affecting your work. It's such a delicate balance because I wasn't even when I fucked up my back last week or two weeks or whatever that was I was like I was walking to work a house like this sucks. I go in like walking like it hurts then as you get him really laying it on thick isn't he. If I go and walk in fine he was fucking line. He's wanted the sleep in this morning yeah so you're always like or nobody even fucking cares and they're not looking at you but that's cafeteria syndrome where everyone's looking at the point is like if someone were yesterday I was sick. It's like okay fine. I really don't you feel like you're like all right. I need to tell them so. They think I wasn't just taking off like exactly what you just described but in reality it's just like I don't Care Janice whatever coming out of bullying even if you don't shooting and puking even if you don't care you care because it will be gossip like God doesn't mean you care about it and it goes on the walking walking fucking fine and it'll it happens. It happens here. I imagine it happens happens. Every gossip is just human nature worse I really do oh. I think somebody average place we are too because I think everyone is. You know what it is. You know what it is. Here is true gossip. What you just said about gossip is the case for the rest of the world? It's like this job sucks so fucking much. Let's talk about you know the Dickhead and his and his divorce over you know what I mean like. Let's let's gossip because we just need something to do. Here is a pretty fun place. We've all we're all pretty busy or I don't know we're busy least so when you're gossiping it's actually militias like let's talk about this person behind their back because there's there's a million other ways. Entertain yourself here so if you're gossiping here he's doing right put on the T._v.. Play Video Games Watch a movie. Don't even come. Just stay home. The people that I know I'm going to go to work because I want to talk about this guy and whether or not he was really sick and I'm look I'm guilty to I've done it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not wrong. I'll fog and gossip but anyway. I like to Orange Juice but I love this book right show. We're on fire. I don't know I don't know where that came. You know what I'm saying like you have had orange juice a lot recently so it's hard for me to think of something. I don't know what you have not had recently but like I opened up the fridge and I saw some by the way shout out to simply orange because Tropicana had a lockdown that market for like my entire life I mean I don't know I simply orange. Come around maybe five years by more like twenty but in my mind is like five zero Tropicana and I'm still Tropicana guy but I saw that it wasn't like I look at simply orange and I'm like oh no way the sexy bottle female form the why very sexy yeah. It's a hot product. What is it Coca Cola product? That's that makes perfect sense. Goal is probably sprinkling some fucking some addictive drug and they I mean the headline says Coca Cola simply oranges anything but yeah. That's what I was GONNA say. This is probably or issues is sneaky like the worst thing for you and everyone's like Oh. It's like it's good for you. It's a giant sugar and I just had a full Solo Cup of it but God damn cold cold less orange juice off that reminds me of the simply orange is anything but reminds me a union watch parks and REC but there's I've seen in parks in Iraq. I'm actually getting sick referencing it so we can just get all of your parks and rec references out so we could never do this again. Thanks it's basically Leslie visit you know she's a politician and she's. I think it's fatburger. No of Hamburgers are replaced Montebourg ponds Burger and boy Nikki and it's just like well. If you want a child size they put up like the biggest thing ever now yes. It's the size of an average child besides going through. It's like your water has six hundred calories in well. If you want Diawara zero that has only one hundred calories like everything's just like lying about. What's actually this is the way the world works fucking crazy about? I was thinking about that today. With the I was I was a I was like coordinated and I was just watching the molar stuff into following online and people were talking about just doing quotes. It's so weird to watch it and see how he says it and then you read it and transfer however is again. It's not new breaking news here but it's so fascinating Howley. If I read something that I watched something it's so incredibly different and then you think about how many people over event are like will not be seeing it and look at eight A._M.. On a Tuesday or whatever today is Wednesday eight A._M.. On a Wednesday most people aren't fucking watch now. It's just so wild. I say this all the time about stuff about the borstal effect act where I'm like. You know we always say give it a shot. Give it a listen. Read us then make your opinion. They're not GonNa do that and which I can't too yeah I did it with Logan Pause arguing with people all day Logan Paul who by the way he garnered us a billion impressions. Yes I don't know literally means people girl burly and she goes through. She scours the Internet all the time for anybody. WHO's writing about US anytime we're mentioned and I'll be honest it's like never so we went from zero to a billion because awoken Paul? Can you so what that means yeah so. I don't know how she she like. We know how many hits we get. You know I could show you on our blog. How many hits a if I write had an article about Logan Paul? It gets like fifty thousand clicks for two thousand impressions. I don't know how she does it. She has her own system. I'm sure you can look at like some blogs will put up like reading your local publicity Afghan outgassing like that where you get. which is I mean? I'm sure that's for this exact reason for P._R.. People so she went through and like entertainment tonight wrote about us and like the only one I remember was entertainment tonight Yahoo People people so she added all those up and in under twenty four hours at I'm sure it's over a billion but when we spoke to shit it had eight hundred ninety two million impressions of articles saying like Logan Paul was on K._A._B._C. Aradio emotional sports and said X._Y._Z. so when people were like why would you have on your show like call anybody on me buddy. That's why we had Kathy Griffin. I am not I to me. It ended up being I don't co-signed Kathy Griffin. I would cosign Logan Paul but I don't think of this is like when people say re tweets or not an endorsement coming on my show doesn't necessarily mean it like now ninety nine point nine percent of the time it's friendly. It's someone who is in our in our wheelhouse in our demo. They want promotion ocean. We want to get to talk. It's all copacetic but I will gladly. I loved having Kathy Griffin on. I think it's something that we totally lack barstool is. Let's have some discussion. Let's have some disagreement. Let's have some some arguing debate because compelling. It's interesting and intriguing. It's not super rare for we're essentially a late night. Show whereas I talk about current topics and then you have a p._r.. And we have fun we we try and be different. It's not just like so tell us about set and we try to be cookie cutter right but the whole system is one of like mutual benefit. I feel like terrestrial radio is much more like there's controversy like you have to go on and it's like face. The music almost no one's facing the music here. You just choose not to go on on the show. That's why I don't title Kathy. Griffin was thinking and I'm happy she did it. I'm sure she's like faulk. Why did I do that but I was? I was very happy to have have it on and Logan. Paul was kind of the same way except that I ended up eating like this dude. He's just he's in your face which I understand like most people the wrong way very bombastic and energetic and he definitely is a little naive with his whole life is awesome but when it comes down to is he's rich and successful people don't like if I was ready to twenty four public lifestyles absolutely and so rose people the wrong way but ends up bring this back to my point was I kept saying to people like everyone who tweeted us listened to the interview was like Oh shit I hated him and now I don't there's a lot of people who are like no fuck that guy and I'm not even and a waste of breath saying you should listen to the interview I because they don't want they're not gonna but but I will say everything that people say about Logan Paul other people say about arsenal so it all sounds like it's been articles. If you read those comments and just be like I don't know why you would associate associated with this guy. He's trash. He's bringing you down like that. Is something verbatim that Desmond said like word for word. That's a great point. They're like well. He's he's rude. He's like in your face he he's trash but you know even go out of their way to make like a metaphor deadspin. We'll say barstools sports for if you don't know is for Frat boys who were brought up in a culture of misogyny and like to drink bleach just stupid shit that doesn't even make any sense. That's what these comments say about Logan further there were tons of people who just replied suicide for us and it was like that is isis skinny jeans <hes> like you're just taking people like they just literally say that decide succeeding. That's what they're doing. Suicide forest and it's like yeah that is the thing that happened. I don't think anybody could you imagine being a Barstool Fan and writing people off for like single incidents and I got so I take that personally because like the amount of people who probably would or have written me off in the same way for my shit. It's like if you're a fan of my show and you Kinda stuck with me through my shit. How can you write somebody else off for their one incident so that always personally bothers me but if you're a fan in general trust us? That's what I was saying like if you stuck with me and you're down with me and you and people like I'm a huge fan of us in every episode. It's like then you should know that I wouldn't put someone on the show like we put Kathy on and we were like. We don't like you know so either like you or we're GonNa tell you if we don't so there are a few people that would say I gave a shot. He's still kind of annoying because you know he's so good you yeah. If you WanNa tell me bother is annoying sure if you WanNa tell me I had a buddy whose he's you know I don't know thirty late thirties to kids miserable wife miserable life and he was like infuriated by the life is dope thing and I had a bunch of people being the pokemon thing was very funny Logan Logan. Maybe a little coaching for Logan. If you're going to go around talking about how wise you are and how much wisdom you have to impart. Don't use the pokemon reference so all that can you can tell me yeah. He's a young kid fine but anybody who would be like he's trashed because because what he went to the suicide forest like I understand what you and if you don't want to be on video when you're dead he didn't if he you didn't have the minion hat on doing any bathroom. I have to tell him yeah. I mean it's they make a whole spectacle of it and like it or not. The suicide forest is now like a an attraction a haunted thing. It's not like a place of reverence and all that it's like a Wacky fucking place on earth and he went and did a wacky blog there but find even if you don't like that to to write someone off based on that and then someone else said to me well the differences. You guys are likable no you you just like us. We're not likeable. Most people hate us. You personally like us. You personally seem to not like Logan Ball but it sounds like you didn't even give him a fucking shop and but like I said I don't expect you to give them a shot either so it's just one of those things. If you want to hate hate but at least recognize recognize that you are blindly hating you know I know when I'm blindly hitting I used to hate Paul and I would tell you it's because he was twenty one and making millions of dollars yeah I think I posted a blog about I forgot about I think it was reminded. After the someone tweeted me my brought sixty minutes thing I wrote a blog faulk this and in fairness to me it was fair when I at least my I haven't read the blog I was pre or post <hes> dead the seven s but it was was in the sixty minutes thing he's filming a vine ad for Dunkin donuts and he got two hundred fifty thousand dollars for that. Yes bought this right. I The fair fair from me fair from him to make two hundred thousand dollars and yes the the reason why people hate Logan Ball and Jake Paul and basically all youtubers is because they're rich and successful if they were not you would just be like those are some weird idiots who make dumb youtube videos but when you make money in your successful everyone goes faulk that and that is fair but you at least have to acknowledge college. That's why you're doing anything about her dead. Nobody cares about the suicide forest that is just the reason the AMMO and the evidence your lackey latching onto in order to hate on a guy because he's making way more money than you ever could fact what's really good. What's really good with the office episode of the Office Right now? It's brought to you by. Let go let it go can hold it back anymore. Let go Larry Echo. Okay there. You say let Ooh Anyway. I definitely could if it's like a plane. That's why it's hard to perform. I give people you could. I know that song like front to back if it's on but if you put like an instrumental on I would like goof it up a couple of Eric's and Shit I could I could right the Goddamn Song. I don't remember what part guns let go is the best place to sell your stuff that you might not need your space anymore. Let's face it if it's just old and you don't want it if you're selling stuff locally. It's the easiest way to do it. It's a mobile marketplace that lets you move stuff and gain access the stuff that you might not otherwise have so. Let's say you're moving and you want to just rather than move all your stuff. If you want to offload it you can sell it. Let's say that you moving into a place and you want to find something on the cheap furniture or some place to furnish your new apartment with you can do that. You're moving into school out of school. If you're newlyweds. If your parents moving downsizing whatever may be if you're having a life change and you want to get rid of stuff or acquire it let go is the easiest way to do it along with the most affordable and I gotta move these sneakers dude. How many times have you got so I'm actually going to do so? I'm I'm restarting kicks in the office and I think I'm going to do like a fifty fifty or something like that. Come up with a Hashtag and do like a new pair of shoes every day but I don't know how many but I think it's like seventy five but I need. I was eighty two. I don't know how was your shooting. Maybe you've said let's do this. Guess how many pair of sneakers I have in honor of let go and whoever gets it correct tweeted at me to caves radio. Actually it's in a room I mentioned and that will randomly pick someone who got the right thing and we'll give you three tweet at Lecco Hashtag live and Lecco guessed the number of shoes that I have what could be a tie-breaker there yeah yeah yeah tweet the number of shoes. I have an favorite pair something like that and we'll do a randomly. We'll randomly select and I'll I'll give you a person. Here's what a deal so. I'M GONNA go sell someone. Let go and I'm going to give whoever guesses how many pairs of sneakers I have because I need more space. Now you know what I did. I told you I was GONNA go buy those fear God mocks because the Joe Manganiello and I did it those are coming. They're almost here and I got no spot for them. So I got at least unload one pair so let go if you want to do you got extra sneakers or stuff and you want to unload it download the APP start buying and selling today and tweet at US Hashtag live and let go at let go guess how many pairs of sneakers this idiot over here has time for the office who and what do we got Johnny. Okay let's see here. I'M GONNA number one from people in the office me boy so feeling yourself yeah yeah so last night Mike Trout or two nights ago now. Mike Trout had a hose from Centerfield to keep it a one nothing game. He threw out Max Muncie. I believe at the dish and it it made me remember because I forget occasionally. If any remember that I truly think I said it's the best buy in sports. People got upset because that's what they're outfield assists yes. I don't feel I think is one of the more beautiful place in sports. I would ask you. What you find? What you think would be better well? What are we saying beautiful? We saying exciting best I think I think it's one of the I'll say coolest. I find it so cool because so beautiful when the thing usually is like it's such a weird way. It's a rarity because once once the book is out on New People don't run on you. You know what I mean if you absolute cannon but then the highlights occur when it's like like well I'm not I wouldn't run on him ordinarily but I'm definitely going to be safe now. This was in the gap so I'm good and that's when the true beauty strikes I mean there's as far as exciting as I understand the things where it's like must watch position Asian player pitching. It's not beautiful but I get gassed up for it because it's actually one of the weird in a weird way. It is also this position player. Pitching actually is beautiful because it actually usually ends up okay position player imagine how I hate it why it's been ruined for me by twitter. Wow I mean that's twitter is they do like ler so glad it but I mean they do it but it's not what I mean. Isn't it weird like you would think that people would hang like ten on the I and it doesn't usually happen well. Let's get out of the inning like two to three runs Max. There's a lot of runs for any not you think about a fucking I mean and that's like Max. Sometimes they just get through the they're just sitting there throwing sixty mile an hour like e V pitches and the guys you know it's like this is so fucking dumb that like these guys can't even get hits when the guy pitching sucks even more so than people on twitter ruining it it was actually there was it was yankees raise. I'm I must say about four years ago. Yankees like ten and the broader position player and I guess like for some reason I woke up in the morning thought he was a super together of like Yankees to swinging out of their shoes and he five five hundred foot bombs. I guess if I wasn't same situation I would do that but it's the Yankees so I hated it just like they were happy and it happy Gilmore like crow hops fucking teeing off on Bosley Europe ten. Let's get the Fuck Ati. I wasn't like doing these reports that Jesus Christ remember. Do you remember when A-rod hit the pitch. It was one of the best things ever they'll do. K. was really working on that his pitch he had like the bugs bunny one and he snaps it and it was like an A.. Rod like cockpit and then realize you like any like reset and just ham like nine hundred feet it was unbelievable. I what's ruins twitter's ruined ruined <hes> Fat Guy Touchdowns for me Fag. I thought John Yeah that's the same thing they put like. The Siren that most beautiful exciting plays in you know my dad's is which I think is crazy. What's maybe it's because I just don't like him? Kickoff while kickoff returns does any kickoff. That's I mean that's the worst thing in sports he he says. It's the most exciting playing sports. I think that's crazy. He must be kickoff return. No He'd be like when we go to games. He's like all right. Pick someone just watch them He. He loves doing this to me. He you like doesn't let me watch a fucking game. Yeah sorry when I was a kid it stars during hockey we like he would give me a player to watch on this whole shift and then like quiz me online where it was a pain in the ass but he would do it during kickoff. Pick a player watch him and it was just like most of the time they just rinsing yeah. Hey man that was awesome. That's terrible kickoff. Return is electric. The A A missed field goal return is unbelievable kick six. That's that's like you know one fairly regular John. I'm not a not a hockey guy but what about when they pull the goalie goalies crazy <hes>. It's always very intense very sunny. It's very it's usually just during playoffs because they're eighty two games of the year. It's not not exciting regular season but it just doesn't compare when juxtaposed with an empty net because it's like you're you're probably you're losing so it's sort of like a play of desperation so you probably have a lot of negative feelings whether to like and I'm so negative that like I- hockey's hockey's a tough sport because like soccer where there are so few goal scored where like when you you go down at least it's me I was actually saying during the when we were talking with blues fans where they'd be down in the series but it gets out over my I go down a goal. I'm like adult series. Nothing and like those fucking simple folk over in Missouri next game sucks triples triples or good. I two thirds of Dope Yep I there is good but you know what both of those double steal. Those are getting very rare like the running game is so dead hit and run when it works a double steals fun. I think third or terms awesome I triple. I think are so fun but I I'm giving that credit to the outfield assist fear yeah now you also gotta be. I've always had like we watched raise for a long time with the mets who was leading the league in triples most often when you if you like you know if it's a ball off the wall that rolls away and you get a triple whatever when you just like hit it to the gap and you get three that's sick yeah or was it was a Fernando Totti's junior some of the other day like tagged up from second scored like some shit like that wheels wheels in baseball is kind of like a dying thing so when you see someone when Billy Hamilton. Tim was doing wacky Shit for a little bit there when you can affect the game. That's why I like the feeling I I think that could get interesting. This isn't a play but I like when there's a guy on third and they still shift so. There's nobody here and the guy. It's just like even if I step off. I don't know what you just run at him yet. I would say as far as a general thing that happens in a basketball game when when like when someone goes like Steph curry and they're just like four five trips down the court three ball every time there was you can't stop them. It's like actually N._B._A.. Jim Is real life now. You know I think it was why in the finals game five or whatever that was like that was just like this cannot be stop. It was on the other day. It was like you know we're not gonNA. Let's see him for a while. So here's a member of clay or whatever it was and it was closed thirty seven point quarter yeah it it was and he always the full thing it was an absolute show. He does it with like four dribbles. The extra special when Reggie Miller dropped twenty five on the Nixon a quarter. You couldn't not all of it. You just like every honestly touches anymore twenty-five right right right then then that's what I'm saying. I was just like basically like the last time I wash basket the era just like I. I don't understand how he can't Miss Right now. Everything was going hoops fucking ocean so that Barstool sports get ass. Let us know what those are all good things. I'm sticking with mine. Well Yeah I mean that's the right answer answer. That's why I'm trying to come up with this stuff. The Penalty Schott could be brought up to the <hes>. I don't think the penalty kick in soccer deserves it because I think a penalty save is a big deal apparently save it but it's so hockey shootout unless you go not jail she olympics that became legendary but otherwise it's pretty like but like I think like a playoff or something like that yeah yeah yeah but apparently shot is up there. The crowd kind of tents and that's I think the goalie wins most of that time I think like a good a good player is usually like thirty forty percent of the time. They'll score so that's exciting one. I didn't walk off home run to it was always going to be walking king for me. What's up on the office? <hes> <hes> hubs this has been a thing hub started and on the Internet helps. This'll the working shoes off because he said the movie theater movie theater was his he says take first of all not only is the movie discussing for other people. It's gross for you like the movie theater sticky and food. He's doing some come. The newer ones with carpeted legs up kind of not walking around. I remember back in the day when you went to a movie and it was like you could potentially become like Pompeii there. You're just get stuck for me to the ground we used to go to when we were kids. We would either go to the Whitestone mm cinema in Queens Queens like right by the way Stonebridge or the Bay Plaza Multiplex. It was the fucking hood man like not only would you maybe get shot. There was like probably needles drugs dogs on the floor. Remember the Shooting Bay. We weren't allowed to go anywhere because someone got shot and then Whitestone like burn down or some shit or there was a shooting there as well. What do you like it was like what's which movie theater? Can we go very exciting new rock open. They're like look. There's we're not gonNA have a movie theater and Yeah because the other movie theaters had been eliminated and those animals were probably run around barefoot the whole time hubs you discussing weasel. It's here's your answer nowhere. No that's that is here fucking shoes on man. You cannot take your shoes off unless you're at home yes I don't. I don't care how long a flight is <hes>. I don't care how long you can do. I think you said this out he'll he'll out and we keep keep that fucking because your toes are where it gets weird and grace so keep toes in the like when you go to someone's house so this is Chicago's a bit about this like take your shoes off. Fuck you man yeah. I don't care about your carpet. I don't care you just got the floors clean or adults. I'm not going to sleep. I'm not like I'm not Japanese not Chinese. I'M GONNA leave my goddamn shoes on. It's that if you if you're inviting someone to your house and you are shoes off house that has to be pre agreed upon the invitation. Put me show up at your door and you said. Can you take your shoes when you see them. Put them in a cubby or something like that. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA leave my fucking shoes on and I'm GonNa put him on the fucking table with it. You don't want them on a table have a higher table. Make sure I lose. I lose blood flow to my legs. Put Him on the floor but if you got a local heavy table by feet by shoes could walk around New York City are going on the table yeah. Somebody said that when Dave feet were up like all the New York City grossness I'm like I don't know we're not eating off the fucking radio table. Fuck Up. Where does hub say you can put your feet up? I mean He. He said he just said she was off the movie theater. I expanded their but I'm saying what are some other plane movie theater where else people taking their shoes off a better be it people I mean cases walk on this guy off his bare does it when it rains. He wears boots and then walks on bear for the rest of the day that is really because I'm not sure barefoot so mom leaving wet march all over the place so casey was high as shit she was Oh yes they were filming pop punk and they made her just like do a bunch of Bong riffs really high P of all people. It's very funny to watch him his his his jeans jeans are like underneath his shoes around like a little kid well. I had boots on today. Okay Pete Mr Fucking like most judgmental like we're professional. Don't talk to me. Don't look at me. Don't do anything weird out of the ordinary. Mr Pete you're going to walk around with tootsie is out. It's it's crazy and people make the argument. It's more comfortable. It's fucking naked when I'm in. I'm in public. I'm in society. No kidding hands work yeah when I'm doing it. I don't see my shoes my clothes on because the most comfortable for me in my own home that's the phrase that's when you get to be comfortable not out in civilization for the it's more important to me to be looked at as a valuable member of society a normal person then and this will be confidential. Let my dog's breath. That's that's the most comfortable sales people around me now going what the fuck is wrong with as comfortable as you are. Your feet are externally internally. You should be walking around going. Oh my God. I can't believe everyone's probably fucking looking at me because I have my bare feet out. What the fuck do you want so the more important than your feet being comfortable? Is Your own fucking worth self worth fucking Casey was barefoot. Nothing never next up next up. Let's see what we got here. I'M GONNA yeah I'm GonNa make a dealer stories on this one. Who would you like beach activities or rainforest cafe? I gotta go for Cafe because I know this is coming. From Tommy smokes. I saw I saw his tweet. It said Fuck you got me Goddamn as the doors close and she just snuck a middle finger and Tommy said he's never eating anywhere other than the rainforest cafe ever again. What when did he go one here? I don't know because I've never been you've never he's got John. I had never heard of it until you like six months ago. Whatever first of all you nailed that it was six months? But where did he go to rainforest cafe well. Didn't you go recently. I went to one in Chicago New York. No no I I mean it's got to be one in New York. Now says there's one in Edison New Jersey where the where were they rough and rowdy was that recent was was he down there. I don't think he was there. No No <hes> be honest. I think I would hate it. You'd hate it if you went for dinner. It's Niagara Falls in Niagara Falls New York New York state. Oh what do you mean Ah. We're not doing that one the unit yeah you hate if you ever dinner but when I went it was the four of us for like at Eleven A._M.. Okay and we went for drinks ram when your next drink is one of those things it's doing anything. That's a a little bit weird. We're used to have to agree. We're over fun and he goes for go. Let's have fun. What's the John Taffer rule you go for like two thunder strike better when it's blue which is mine which is great because I like things that have like a set time you know Thomasson these three but as we all know the I mean when we get Tommy that sort it was so funny Oh yeah yeah let me see if we can get him real quick all right so we'll have to find a break my pop my rainforest Cafe Cherry Somehow? I don't know where it's Oh so that's where he was originally oh right okay that makes sense city boys and the caddy girls not getting late okay. Let's get into what we also have two interviews three interviews three interviews. We Got David Spade who is an O._G.. Of Hollywood comedy Pussy Kodeco and Noel Miller who are also I mean right there Logan Paul as one of the most dominant forces on Youtube today so huge week for case radio in the Youtube Realm so he and Noel do that's cringe and they'd make a whole bunch of videos they did answer the Internet and sat down for interview with us and we got a few quick minutes. It's with Dana White the most powerful commissioner and all sports the best visuals worth so let's get to voicemails I they are brought to you by Ali. Your dogs health is as important as your health as that was going to say that's my dog okay. I've been to the to the vet way more than if something's wrong with you. You know you're back right. If they're like your backs her he'd be like I don't know Rosa dirt on it and I'll just go to work right. If someone told you your dog had like a herniated disk and when suffering and pain you'd be like here's five five thousand dollars surgery right so your dog's health is just as important if not more than you and all the other humans in your life so you gotTa make sure that their dog that the dog food is up to par Ali puts dogs. I they vet formulated recipes. He's fully transparent ingredients. They make sure that you give your dog the healthiest food possible they make fresh meals for dogs with real ingredients that even people can eat so you know maybe you can get a little snack yourself customize. Oh He's all natural no preservatives. I'm sure all these foods delicious knocking me the first night of eating dog. I was GonNa say if you haven't if you haven't popped some kibble nibbled on a bone. I'll sit down with your dog like Sundays for the cubs. Oh I'll eat that sure her well. That sounds like it's ice cream yeah yeah I mean thanks go to my Ali L.. E. Dot Com answer a few questions about their dog. Know exactly what kind is how big is all that stuff and they will make recipes designed. I four your dog personally and they'll ship preportion meals to you so get the perfect portions with the perfect ingredients for your pop. Five million meals and counting shipping is free and if your dog doesn't like the meal you got a money back guarantee go to my Ali dot COM <hes> slash tri slash K._F._c. get sixty percent off your first box sixty percents of diesel discount so you've got to deal with that Wacky U._R._l.. That's the price you pay my Ali dot com slash tri slash K._F._c. a._F._C.. Get a free bag of treats and sixty percents off your dogs first meal before so I real quick before we get into voicemails is wanted address. We were a tax conversation last night here addressing and it is just so fucking sometimes Z.. You just realize how weird this job is and we were texting last night about the someone tweeted us me showing you by Holy Shit. I forgot about that. It's such a weird job. I've forgotten my pants off my totally forgot about. I can't believe it was so much worse than seeing your Dick. If you just showed me your Dick Dick you're just showed me like your pubic area just like that whole whole pubic bone and you're Gandalf the grey. PUGH was ready ready. I it's not that it was it was ginger and it was Greville. It's not ginger anyway. That's how sports you just forget. Forget showing your coworkers back that that was not even a dog. It's not the highlight of your day. It's not it's not a story of the day it's something you completely forget until a stranger on the Internet tells you and the picture a bit like blurred out borstal dot com slash gave see if you want to see like you don't want to necessarily see fights as cubes but you WanNa see like our reaction and the way fights was so proud of himself. Ah We've got a special appearance before we do voicemails. Tommy smokes is GonNa come in the studio. Yes okay. Tommy just texted me back. Come on and your name came up because we were just discussing the rainforest cafe. Which Moore was that your first time now? I've never been I had been there when I was younger. I'm sure but this is the first time I can consciously remember you went in Yeah. Okay see I never been they sound no place to eat breakfast on the Atlantic city boardwalk unbelievable walk like a mile and the half Toronto find some eggs couldn't do it so settled on the rainforest cafe they also have breakfast but I was blown away with the atmosphere painfully video. That's what he said. He's like. You're not gonNA like the food but you go for a few drinks. You hit a couple of thunder strikes. You're good to go yeah. I got three thunder strikes got its every half hour right there right before thunder strike re-timing and then two more it was unbelievable. I love rainforests in general I find that fascinating I love the sounds of the bird gone no but I had a dream trip for you. That's why do it's terrible. I think he would always say these things about survivor and now the rainforests horrible settings for what's the place in the botanical gardens they have like <hes> exhibit of dollars and I went there as a field trip in like fourth grade. I was blown away. I love I always loved the stats about the rain. The rain does not touch the ground. You know what I mean and there's there's like fifty billion unknown species that we haven't figured out yet they could make up that stats on the rainforest. I believe all of them yeah the bugs and stuff. I wouldn't want to go but if you could get me like a rainfall basically the rainforest restaurant replicates so your name popped up and then I remembered you telling this story yesterday that was just it was it was shocking. It was a staggering loads me in the bathroom because we went to the bathroom and I bought the Tommy Lawton about them. I know about using the bathroom every two that's why I said Tommy. I think we're on the same cycle and he's a norm on the same cycles. Everyone because it's time he's off like Oh man. We're on the same cycle cycles like no. You're not special. I thought we sit next to each other. I thought maybe we think he'll but the period John Tubby. I remembered recently. It's it's not a big deal next time because he went to London just wasn't even like Edwin founded this weekend. We're not right next to each other person between us. It's pretty close yeah. I don't know what you're saying like. Didn't you don't talk he didn't tell you it was like okay you bad and the London this week I love it. I think that's the kind of decimate you want. It was going to walk up in the middle of the day like okay tap. You and bill came along rather narcissistic to be honest. I'm interested in your lifetime. Well going going forward well. I wasn't until I heard this story. Tommy I mean Tommy. Tommy was assaulted. I don't think I was sexually assaulted. I don't think I was assaulted so John was asked me about my bladder and I said that and I want to clarify. Apparently there's a John Mullany joke brought who we he went to get xanax prescription and he told people at frequent urination and he ended up getting a prostate exam. I think key stole that experience for me. Interest proves that what I'm saying is correct in that urologists do just give surprise prostate so I was in. I was just about to go to college so it was like August two thousand fourteen penal like twenty times a day by the way I thought this was recent so I'm a little bit happier that it was no. I was eighteen so it was like I was going to fifteen to twenty. Have you been tested diabetes eighteen to twenty this just a little footnote. My goalie in high school used to get off the ice all time during practiced go piss and eventually are you gotta stay on the ice man with practice. You have to have goalies shoot on. We can't just have one goalie goalies. Eventually one of us isn't coaches was like Google Texas diabetes the only reason you're no <music> super skinny crazy skinny and turns out he had diabetes so maybe that's something to look into that tested in many times. It's crazy yeah. It's still pretty up there but so I I was about to go to college like it's probably get this checked out your oldest and he was like all right. Maybe like peanut cop like that and he was like putting my you know whatever like sort of normal stuff like that place a dentist he was like you know. Pull your pants down. Turn around around my head. I was like that's why he was so. This is where I I can understand if you said it's a surprise prostate exam meaning. I thought I was going to pee in a cup and at the end of the day they ended up putting the finger my but you were still surprised even at at this point where they said pull your pants down and turn around and then you didn't make your of your popped into my head that's happening eighteen time and I always thought like prostate exams. I'd heard about like oh you go. When you're fifty colonoscopy schedule it ahead of time spent bringing on you so obviously my guard was when my pants were down down guards and then yeah you just put his finger my ass? I guess he was looped up. I don't really can't describe it. I feel feel like you would really know yeah so it's impossible. It's not impossible you know and yeah he was in there running around trying to make small ties I also what are you studying. We're going to school and I remember just like being speech. I couldn't talk now is not like we're not making small. Talk with your finger my ass I would I actually. I don't think it's crazy to not be surprised. If I even pants down boy down turn around something's going in your asshole at eighteen definitely didn't know like prostates affected urination. There's no way what's in my ass affects I'm often I._p.. And so I'd be like all right. He's probably going to play with my nuts from behind. I've they actually again. Tommy thought would be in my mind I'd be like I don't know what's GonNa Happen here. I'm pretty exposed at the moment but I was anything right. Giving your prostate thought I definitely you are assaulted because there's probably some sort of generic protocol where you say like now relax in about a week now come back. We'll give you a prostate exam. You schedule it I didn't I didn't know it gets sprung on you. Remember about this which they should be saying. I'm about to enter Hugh now. Yeah it's just a warning. He asked permission with women. You're in the middle of being intimate with U._S.. Version of people you're already in in the doctor like if you go look for a Sonogram the doctor's always a little cold say something so you know it's coming and that's when you absolutely no is coming poor little eighteen year old Tommy you gotta let them know he's about to get finger fucked in the by. No I agree I mean it wasn't a pleasant experience but then ended up getting a pill and AH I took it for a few years. It helped a little and then I just I didn't feel like going back there. We're back today. I I love that Tommy where he's just like yeah. I got bored. I didn't feel like going to C._V._S. every month so I stopped taking my medicine. That's basically yeah every minute. I'm pretty lazy and I know you're talking about but if the alternative is being twenty times a day it's also like there was nothing wrong. He's like you. Don't have anything really wrong with you. You just Peel Pete's Fun Man Twenty Times a day. I don't know compete twenty P P pretty often. I don't think today by P pretty often but it's like planes or a bitch going about when you are drinking like everyone must be like fifty times a night yeah worse but if I don't break the seal for a little bit could be okay and then there will be random times where like three hours and haven't paid and I'll be like really proud of myself. Well for yesterday was a really bad day. I don't know why there's good days and bad well. Well <hes> good luck with that Tommy. Thanks keep keep things out of your voicemails. What are we got? What's up guys <hes> so one of my friends was telling the story <HES> did you discuss from Italy from visiting her family? <hes> so it was all second cousin and she said she was hanging out with his one cousin the entire time like three years younger than her <hes> they together on the beach all the time come on and on the last night they I am on the beach smoking and having a conversation and he leaned in and said can I kiss you know she immediately gets up and leave and doesn't talk to them for the remaining like six hours that she's there <hes> Tom but this got us into a heated debate over. What's worse your cousin asking the kiss you or your cousin just straight out kissing oh asking for sure asking because that means that there's some acknowledgement arrangement that there's something going on here straight up kissing? Maybe maybe he didn't know you're related. Maybe your shit face. Maybe you're confused. Asking is kind of like hey. I know we're cousins but you want to do this anyway. askings worse way worse <music>. I mean granted. If you ask a woman they might disagree could send sucks fucking kissed me just do it. I don't want you to ask just stick your tongue. Gone Down My fucking. Throw whether I resist or not I I I. I don't ask before kissing unless you do it like a joke like if there's a reason the cutesy formally asking right you know what I mean. It's look I think every guy owes our entire game. Love Life Whatever to hitch and ninety ten is what you do you go go ninety. You let them that's. That's where the agreement comes. Speaking is odd but it gets a lot a lot more odd when you're related. I was GONNA say Barry Talking cousin second cousin. That's close like my my second cousins. They are like my real cousins like their way closer but I don't. I don't have breakdowns cousins so you you mop tick technically. I'm sure your parents cousins kids what we're talking about. I don't I don't even know if I know my parents cousins. My family's not that close. I have no idea my parents cousins. I think it's one of those things like your second. Cousin could be like an estranged never see them or like. I don't know we are much much closer with my second cousins the random friends who are cousins. You know what I mean like. Dad's friends kids and stuff like that but they're not really you know when people cousin is a cousin. This cousin is a it's a real fluid. It's like this shirt. It's flowing blowy fake cousins then hang out with you before I was five. That's that's ever been in the bath tub together. Then we're cousins but this is like they're probably distant because she's over in Italy like she. You shouldn't live on the is that par to European fucking normal European year fucking sick Weirdo and that's that's if I go hang out with my fucking Irish cousins which don't exist go make and they start kissing me and my guy by expected this. I signed up for this. The Mo my passport stamped the the Irish are weird bunch true Irish what you need you need. You need to be being Irish. It's like you got to like cut it cocaine. You got to cut it a little bit. Pure Irish is bad news. You gotTa have a little leg a little German. Maybe even a little talion. You got to cut it otherwise it's too strong. Otherwise is too much you get the pure pure white hits you too hard same thing with being fully Irish too drunk or too violent. You're probably ugly. You gotta mix it in a little bit perfect preferably cut it cut it with some buck in Latin America. Eh you cut it with Scottish it might as well be blocking cut gutters with some Cuban. That's the way I like to. It's okay as the by the Colt Nebraska <hes> I don't know how many times longtime listener <hes> but recently started talking to this girl and I feel like I know fight dancer on this foul on take on it <hes> but dr talking to this girl and <hes> come to find out. She's a conspiracy theorist like she doesn't believe the nine eleven <hes> was actually a plane like she believes it was bombs and like some wild other shit along those lines with like all sorts of conspiracy theories in like. Should I still talk to or like. is she crazy. ooh What like I duNNo. Give me your thoughts now. You can't do it. No I mean I thought he was going to say like aliens or something like that. That's not even conspiracy Bro. You just have a brain thinking and also gonNA run around being like you know <music> are are there Dana their nuclear because if you have sometimes literally if you can have fun with conspiracy theories. That's one thing where you like yeah. We'll talk about a little joke. We can have basically any topic with life we can. We have fun with it if it's something you genuinely believe a you have a hard patching and can't discuss it can't get made fun of four. Whatever if you truly believe nine eleven didn't happen? Nine eleven was an inside job or whatever it is you know jet fuel can't melt steel beam the stupidest thing in the history of the world if you actually believe that stuff but you're nestle but you're too stupid to just be with yeah but I think some things are more valid. I'm trying to think of an example but like I mean I think the government does like shady shit like and there are some instances where I'd be like yeah. Something's going on there. That's fine. The government does Shady Shit is conspiracy theory. That's also just like yeah. That's how I if I were. If you were to give me like you know there's fun ones and then there's you know O._J.'s son actually committed the murder right but if you were to tell me that like <hes>. I don't know the government like I don't believe in this one. The government created aides or something like that. I think there probably are some circumstances where if I were to find one that I believed in. I wouldn't become like a freak about it but I would be like no. I actually believe that yet and that's okay too but if you're agree like the government security crack that's also true but the like. I'm not going to fight you about it. If you're annoying Reggie was a crack dealer. That's funny play that clip of him. After he got shot you ever see the clippers giving the speech balloon pops and he goes miss me yeah so I mean he doesn't miss a beat. He doesn't jump. He doesn't like you. GotTa be so fucking Cocky to not after being shot to not jump and just have a joke on deck check awesome conspiracy theory that was planned that just because he was so calm with it. That's my conspiracy I agree if you are like yelling and protesting and you're ever out with a bullhorn and signs of that urine astle if you believe any any of the really wacky ones like that nine eleven was a real like if you if I ever meet someone who's a sandy hook shooter. I'll I'll legit fight you punch you. I was driving home from home from a blackout tour and I was driving through Connecticut and ended up driving through Sandy Hook. It's so fucking eerie even just dry like newtown and it was like even that was war is different. This is really really creepy. Alex Jones owns and those guys anybody who gives parents a hard time. You're just as bad as the fucking shooters disgusting so anybody who's like that. You're a bad person anybody who's just annoying about some of the more like wacky ones. I defecate tolerate you as a romantic successions so we appreciate a girl who might be like the mom J._F._k.. Big Girls don't usually think theories are guiding. Girls are usually they don't care too dumb for it if I if if I if I can ban through with you about a little <hes> some aliens it's a mob stuff. I'd appreciate that don't think that we went to the moon where are people but I mean even that you want to have a discussion about how it's a little a bit ridiculous to think that in nineteen sixty nine we've blasted off into space and shot apart a fucking lunar lander and locked up with it in orbit and then blasted to the moon and then land I mean that's pretty hard to believe considering like I don't know we can't even get Internet and this office it just saying there's a discussion to be had next. Boys Mound gave the fight to percents A._B._C. Super. I'm thirty years old now and I collect like baseball cards. I love it. <hes> and I have a girl over. I keep my baseball cards like now played some of the more expensive ones and expensive. I don't know if hide that or something I should just keep out there and be like hey my -partment and whatever but you know as I'm getting older and starting to try to get into a relationship. Is this something I should hide for like the first six months or <hes>. What do you guys think about that <music> but I'm judging by your face? I don't vote hiding your fucking okay well. I think high from your girlfriend. I don't hide them from. I don't fuck. I'm not gonNA steal. You got the cars man. Oh no no. He's talking about girls else but at first he was like. Should I keep them in a safe place. I think that I missed you that oh I forgot. The girls came in it's like should I even have to say hi to them. From the girl I mean I think just I think it's weird to have them out if they're like if you have like a montage of them or like one single like framed picture wants to have a shrine. Let's say you have like a wall of fame in case you radio or like on your coffee table. You just have on a stand Ken Griffey junior rookie card. I think that's weird. I I think so. I think it's a little bit closer to have a man cave type of thing but if you just have like some sports memorabilia and that's like this is my sports memorabilia. That's one thing if you just have like baseball cards all over your apartment. That's I think that's I think that's weird. I think it all depends on how you act with them. Yes I agree so I think you have like my dad has had collects ticket stubs a great business idea about that because it's tickets ups don't tell people not gonNa tell him and he has he has is like basically like there's a lot of them now because if you know a championship happens he has all of them all the Games you went through that year in a frame and then like a picture probably after party or something okay so he has. It's like a bunch of stuff like that and he's that's cool. If you're like don't touch don't touch your forty year old virgin and you're a Weirdo. It's Kinda like we were just having the conspiracy theories. How serious you take it I think I have you know I write that one down that one's free? I have my sneakers. I don't like put one of these. People have like the drop boxes and Shit where they were on display but like if you go in my bedroom there's a big fucking shelf with a ton of sneakers. I I'm sure there are people there are probably similar people think collecting in baseball cards and having a lot of sneakers for children so I could see a girl being like I don't like that but also I'm not going to go through the trouble of hiding them. Yeah I guess cool just be normal about I have I think I wanNA talk to you. WanNa play with play that you want to look at it and that's fine. I'M NOT GONNA fuck Roy. I'M GONNA have Indiana Jones. booby-traps set up if you are allowed to touch it or like look at it then fucking hydrocare. Put It away. Don't don't have people in touch. I'll say this. I actually think it will go a longer way. If you were just confident about it like this guy is clearly like nervous about his collection if you were just if you brought to go about your apartment and there's a bunch of fucking cards it's again within reason don't be a Weirdo like fo- virgin but if she was like what's this and you were just like baseball so I've had him since I was a little kid and I still do it. Keep it moving and it's just like that's something that I do. That's something that I like and I am not even going to act like it's weird. I think girls that will be more attractive than if you're like never mind to worry about conference if you're just like because then it can become very interesting. She learns a lot about you. Talk about your childhood. We game cards. It can be a very good jumping off point. If you're like. I find baseball part. It's really cool especially like fucking scarlet letter fucking baseball cards hide your flesh Niger Rubber Pussy. I had my on myself next episode. How'd you introduce your rubber pussy to your girlfriends relationship? And how how would you do that. How would you just be like vibrate and you don't need it? Vibrated can add something to the game. What what am I going to go in one with her? One with what if you don't live together or it's long distance or something like yeah or what if what if you're single you have one and then you meet a girl and it's just like would you just throw it out or would you like rubber pushy at home. I wouldn't address it until it was found baseball last voicemail and we'll get into David Speight last west melody is brought to you by Ziprecruiter. Ziprecruiter is the best way to find premium candidates quality candidates to fill all your job needs ziprecruiter has changed the game because in the past you used to go to like I don't know other websites and you would have to seek out the people and find the right matches and matchup job description with their resume and all that Ziprecruiter does all that for you it takes all of the scans all the resumes finds all candidates it matches to your job description and your job need and automatically provides the best possible candidates for you in just twenty four hours actually as a matter of fact for two five employers <unk> who post on Ziprecruiter find a quality candidate within the first day so if you're starting a blog you're starting a story of some sort of new idea and you need to fill any sort of openings. Ziprecruiter is the easiest the way to do it. SMART fast simple go to ziprecruiter dot com slash K._F._C.. They always say to me. Make sure you spell out K._F._C. and there's literally only one way to say k._F._C.. ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash cook. It's it's K. A. Y.. E. S. E. Right again. Go to ziprecruiter dot com slash K._F._C. start trying out ziprecruiter for free right now smartest way to hire K._F._C. B._C.. <hes> I was just talking to someone about how God awful it is to try to ask a girl out or just get their number or whatever the gym <hes> you know 'cause. I talked to people at the gym. I just you know Kinda. Go in. Do you work out and leave the there's really no way to not awkwardly approach someone at the gymnasts now but I was wondering what is the worst social situation or just like environment. You ask someone out pretty much anything other than to Jim because I really can't think of anything else pretty tough gyms impossible Jim. You can't ask them to follow him. I actually in the gym might is either impossible or it's like a layup but it's like ninety nine to one because I think if it's like I mean I don't know Jim Person but I could see a scenario where it actually plays that. You're both like the gym people. Let's say you're on the same schedule and you see the person like every fucking time eventually. That's actually going to be the the easy way for you to go the gym. If you see someone that often you can look I see all the time. I did it with. Geo downstairs where I said look to you. I'm in here time. Get this out. I said Hey man I'm in your all time by the way I'm John Yeah and he said what's up getting over the myself a little disappointing but was this gio dancers popular. He's got it yeah. I mean the gym is I think people always assume it's like that during the middle of a set or something like that like don't go up to a girl and she's running on the treadmill but if you're leaving the gym at the same time like fuck yeah yeah well that's where I would just follow them home the chloroform out wait outside so you have to go bar after go to that Bar <hes> throw rocks at their window. I think the worst in the gym I think is work. There were so many pitfalls works easy like what did they drink Bam well. That's different than getting their number. You know what I mean like like you. Do it enough eventually become friends number five. I think we're I think works works the only place I've ever met people really yeah but I think that when you are officially saying give me your number or let's let's do something that is breaking the work wall that can be awkward and dangerous improperly so that you shouldn't do yeah. It's a work thing. The work thing is more the big picture. The gym thing is like literally. What do I say? When do I go up to him? How do I do it and work? You'll have a lot opportunities to but the awkwardness of being like you're basically like read between the lines. I'm saying that we're co workers but I KINDA WANNA fuck. You like that could be awkward. Public transportation is everyone has a train girl. It's like it's cripplingly scary to go up to them because everyone in Italy or tough anyplace outside of a bar re period it I actually think in a bar has now become the most awkward because everybody is already there to meet up with intimidate. You know it's like they're by themselves but trust me. They're not they're on the phone with date. They're about to meet. Bars are now like the lower are hard because you are now competing competing with the most entertaining thing in the world the it's not U.. Verse Fucking Nothing University God. They've newspaper that well that's why the bar used to work every single one of us to work because everybody goes to the bar to get laid so it's just like hey if you walk through the door you're or at least acknowledging that you're here well. You might be there to be with friends but you're here to either. Meet someone hook up or you know whatever you're there to drink to have fun. You're there to socialize right and then it was like okay now that you're in here what the Games on T._V.. Maybe but other than that there's nothing to do so you might as well talk to this guy now. The Bar is just the agreed upon place to meet your online date and if it's not that you're just on your phone the whole time. Go Away from me. I'm on my I'm on instagram. It used to be like all right. I'll just it's been a long time since I was in the bar like in social setting trying to meet people but isn't it still when you go there you were to walk up someone and say hey what's up. That would be more acceptable than almost any other place yeah like if you were just like in a park and you just walked up to someone's like hey. How are you doing to a girl in the park especially if the sun's going down say running fear or literally if it's dark out in your park you're getting raped and you will be what I learned from N._B._C.? What happens to the park at night? What's it suggesting suggesting in the dark but any other place I'm not saying you you run it? Has It in a bar. It has gotten more awkward like the bar used to be the spot now. It's it's a little bit harder. Also what do you need to ask people out when there's tender and I was GONNA say Lineman just go on the Internet get laid on the Internet like the rest of the world now I I've always I've turned down now or not used it now out of fear for someone seeing my game or something like that but even before four barstool was the thing where it was like Ooh baby someone would tweet this or whatever I still refrained from it just because the stigma attached to it and we got we got to get the mental health stigma out of the way I but then once we cracked Congress we gotta get to meet people online out of the way I think it's probably pretty much gone and you're the only one left I mean I live with. Somebody told me joined riot the one for like claims people whatever and I was like I don't really want to do that. It's kind of Dushi but like she made me sign up and now they won't like except me and now I'm like now. I'm taking it personal well. It takes a while like the whole thing is review you to make sure your qualified or whatever but like. How long does it take you famous? Check the Daily Mail. Check the London newspapers motherfucker. I actually really liked that did newspapers that. Maybe why I'm not getting. Maybe that's what they're finding. Maybe they didn't check the London newspapers Mobile Falker occur say across the pond. Let's go talk to David Spade. How about that? David Spade Google Emmy's in the newspaper so am I mean they've stayed around the same level. This interview with David Spade is brought to you by the Barstool sports store. It's Christmas in July began a fifty percent off sale half off all the viva items do me a favor go by the Sherpa Hoodie not only is it warm. Not only is a fire not only is it perfect for those nights where you're coming off the beach and the Sun's going down or there's a storm rolling in and it gets a little bit chilly a little bit cozy or you're riding on the boat and it's Wendy. We need a Hoodie. It's also a perfect for the fall once the weather turns and I'm also close to the bonus so please go ahead and if you're interested arrested in a Hoodie by the Black Sherpa Hoodie all other products the black server as in fact I have to buy one. I think I think I lost my you do stolen good damn girl girls in fact die your own Hoodie. Don't steal it from the guy you're fucking because it's two two thousand eight thousand nine hundred and you are now fog independent woman. You could buy your own hoodies out stealing the fact that lady's still do this. I'm GonNa Start Stealing your shit but the problem is it. Doesn't you know we can't benefit. They can wear pants. I was Gonna say go see your favorite song. I feel my hurry. I'm aware that Thong go the Barstool sports store all John Stop. All everything is all fifty percent off. Go get that Trinidad and Tobago tie-dyed shirts that everybody loves so much. What what are you want? When you push you get hit all the bump my shit stuff i? I haven't won in drought. I need a bonus so viva go to the store dot Barstool sports dot com everything fifty percent off David Spade. Let's talk to him K._A._B._C. radio featuring a Hollywood and comedy. Oh Gee yeah. I think I was actually surprised. How young you are you in this forever? I guess like look you look young as hell but I'm just like how long I've known the name David Spade. I was fifty one. How many how many fifty one fifty five fifty five still very I asked you I would? I would have guessed like the sixty was yesterday birthday. Yeah no it wasn't that was and I had I did like I always dress. I forgot to get you like a president or something yeah A._M.. And balanced fucking game usually quick charge it on taking care of these darth vader. Oh those cameras yeah. Why am I seeing all these cameras? I've never seen in my life because because we're a bigger operation places crap man you got the new show lights out have cameras apparently though what does this show about anything and everything and nothing all the same we just talk about whatever we're we're the first I literally. What do you want me? I was thinking what would I talk about Oh. Are you kidding me man. This shit is storytelling. I feel like you've got stern. You say went on and on. I couldn't shut up. Are you like that like you get yourself in trouble. Well Stern is fun because you know you. You can say whatever you want. It's one of those. This one's probably saying yeah we we try to replicate that run around you do like Kiss F._M.. You used to do radio for movies and for you know your stand up and then you can never swear my act is clean honestly because really I could never swear so why bother because as I go on Letterman and go do that bit. I can't do this and you go fuck so now it's easier because more realistic to talk like people talk and you've got your crowd is eight to nine year old dudes back against the wall aluminum fine your point benchwarmer. They're mostly on bars. Yeah I was GONNA say 'cause you've been more active instagram than anybody. I jump on jump in. I feel like you would get yourself in trouble telling stories just because of you know I feel you. Don't want the body troubleshoot and you go. I started one of their boy. What am I can't think ahead? Forget that it's that and then it's a new world of comedy where you have to say the right things and you. Everyone has to pull from the same eight jokes or you're going to get your career stopped me to see <hes> Seinfeld the with Eddie Murphy Today on community he just Seinfeld had a conversation where he was just saying guys like us me meeting him and Eddie we find the humor in absolutely everything and you have to understand that it might be offensive to you but our brains are just programmed to find the funny and no matter how dark or how tragic it is but I think you're right. Is that like that doesn't fly anymore. I might be the case for you and other comedians but it just used to have to just be as rough and edgy as you can to do jokes. No one's doing so if you hear. Someone did something thing about some horrible situation that happened in this. You don't have to laugh but you go all right. At least he's trying or if you could mind something funny that or you're just taking a subject. No one's talked but it's too dirty or it's too offensive in some way. I'm all for that but if you're not allowed to do that then comedy dies off. It's too hard you don't want to see the same Joe Watch sitcoms everyone so that they can only pull the same sort of similar jokes that you know it's funny because you make fun of you know skinny people. You can't make fun of fat people along the way yeah you told them you WANNA. White guys can't make fun of black everything about Chad. You never have like a Daiquan like here's what the pool you know what career lock over just because like even instagram becky. It's all why I mean that's the funniest part because the last game fightback we've got going on. I feel like yeah I I would I would I would vote for everybody or nobody say anything and and make fun of everybody without it. Being on the under thing is that you hate everybody. It's not really what it was. It was just funny to make everybody intent and so the fight at a joke on you know old Hollywood minute about Sarah Palin or something they might say oh. You're a woman hater like it's not just is a joke funnier not now you have two levels now. You're like Oh. I shouldn't do this because the oh they might think I mean <hes> and then even on my own show. We have a great job and I go wait a second. You know sorry I he is at work. It just doesn't seem like we're sort of council. So you know what I'm saying. Is that it just it's getting harder out there and at the time started show is I'm like what am I doing fortunate for having come up when you did 'cause you or would you kind of resent not resent. What do you wish the access is much easier now? It's so much easier to get big because of well we can have an opinion but also brick and instagram stories just because in between a movie or show show in your minds working. It's an extra way to go. I can just if I think something I can do right now. Now Finley gives a shit is doesn't matter I'd throw it out there and then people either watching they don't but at least I get to kill that in the day where we used to Oh. What am I going on Letterman next? Oh this'll be too old yeah but now now the downside is there used to be you know thirty critics in the country so if you had movie come out you get shit on one day and that was it now. It's a constant stream of never ending millions of people that just sit back at home ago. They watch me. I don't know if fuck that guy was my phone. Hey spayed. Aren't you so you get a lot of hate. I don't get a really loved than hated if you had to pick. I would say that I'm almost there yeah. There's not much other than I think the bigger you get the quicker you get they jump on or you know if you were around big and popular before social media. Do you think it's it's. I think the time this shit on me was passed like S._N._l.. I would have been a great time to shoot on some about back then they were but now it's looked back upon I think in a nice way which is great. I love being part of that era. I love being a part of that cast where people could say that was a good time diamond and I'm in the mix with all those great guys that that's the funniest thing I mean have things in your career. Even people saying buy buy back then you go. <hes> people get sick of that. I go well. I mean the whole idea of getting on your kid. Is I get one of those. Things people do on us now they say lot or whatever and to get stumble into one and then you go fuck. I got I'm in one. This is like all of S._N._l.. Coming true you mentioned all those guys who's most autists if you had to put a gun yod right now who's most Algebra Shit I mean they're also good in different ways. Even gone to your head spade. I think I need the actual gun to my head. Honestly this we would say I think we'd probably save Farley. We would all just because so much potential to keep going and doing that so many times he could fallen down. I wish he was here because we were just bust his vase because that's that was the fun as far he would love. It always want us to make fun of always wants to shit on thinks it's out it was so hilarious but <hes> everybody I mean but look how successful Adamus all the stuff. You don't see what movie together. He's got to put cast together that makes accents. You never think about it but his Co.. That works but all the ways you can do it wrong the music the editing this. There's so many ways I've done movies it start off good. Get worse as you go. You like what's happening. This is the cast oh and then they edited it weird. You just start good and you can go back easily if everyone doesn't do their job along the way and there's some people that are great at that. Somebody let are great off of S._N._l.. Did T._V. shows rock one time after all this shook out. Did we ever know I'd be the stand of Guy you're the T._v.. Guy Adams Movie Guy Never no one had any idea of any of it. You know so you had to guess you wouldn't Iraquis. You're saying like all these years later. That's kind of how I mean. It's quite at least paid. You're on T._V.. Lot Adams moves rocks known for Stanton. You got it all covered really. That's that's Great Hollywood we I would love to. I love still doing stand up and almost because it's hard you know it's hard to get out there and same thing doing it with guys that are you see new guys at the store and I'm like fuck. This guy's good. I mean unreal Hungary there. Yeah and you just see what they're doing when you go. It's like a football we can watch it differently. I can see to jokes ago okay. He's good one. Joe Could Be a fluke nope. That's the second one good Steve because it does make you you can watch one. Come and go home right differently because you're like the stuff I was thinking. It's too weird and he goes nope. Go do it because that's what they want. You can't do be more surprising be more unpredictable be more whatever over and then it helps you get good. I feel like you've adapted. Well even just seeing how active you are on the Graham. Oh yeah up with because I know for myself especially with the crew run with and like I'm sure you guys get together and you do. GROWNUPS and it's like all you guys are onset. You've all killed. You've all successful. You have a good time and you it probably is easy to kind of rest on your laurels and not like stay hungry and adapt but I feel like you have evolved for. Yeah I try. I mean that instagram was sort of a fun accident. The jump I didn't jump up on facebook and then twitter I okay I don't know and then instagram. I go fuck. I gotta get on one of these because they weren't going away the only tweets or not oh he'll what he'll do it as speed twitter but it's hard because I think girls sound anti women. I think girls were like twitter. Wasn't that fun you know but then what's interim you take picture yourself all day done Oh. What's that one okay? Guess what you got. A million dollars sounds easy to me. Do you think funny is if you see a girl walking down the street and then she's <hes> you know and guys like hey you're hot and she's like yeah and then like nice button sexy and then like this is so horrifying they get home post a picture themselves in every communist like you're so fucking hot that I think yes clean so cool lobue you get down to the Instagram D._M.'s I have you. I feel like it's it's equivalent of dating someone in a bar. What is walking up to a stranger at all strangers people think Borrego? It's worse in a bar. Yeah you get shit on in-person right better for both parties. It's easier for me to handle the rejection. You feel safe because you if you see a girl in a bar twitter tap tap. When was the last time I went over and bought a table label girls a drink like that one? Is that happening twenty years I don't do that. Do you think monetarily why your your your love life was pretty well publicized. Do you think if you're doing it in like the social media era and the era in the T._M._Z. era it would have been it's it's hotter worst it. It would have been easier 'cause easier for people now to if I don't run into someone nothing happens I have to see them somewhere and that's the way it used to be so if you see someone like the these girls all my pervert friends because as you know my feet in that like page or the Mike with magnifying glass search all these dogs in sports and all the dumb stuff skateboarding but then there's all these babes come up because I've got these creep friends like they're like uh like carpet bombing every model in the world you look at it and you see one and if you're drunk all one time issues that are you up. What am I fucking talking about who they are where she's like? Yeah I mean Yugoslavia lobby at noon. WanNa go sailing. I'm like Oh boy were in the valley so I didn't know what was going on and and but it a Baltic Sea it is tempting you see it right. There and it's literally like you could go say hi you drop in a couple of you up germs time. He knows what he's doors. When you like you're you're putting your dating? You're on you're texting or paragraph and she's so bored. All you need to be as a reverend is go yo Yo and they're like right over to the house. He gave me three <hes>. I feel like there's something there like it's always less as more disinterested. Don't care yeah. I'm telling you what that could be a T._v.. Show premise right there when you're drunk. You're let me just fill them. I'm not answering. You are good at this game well. They don't always if I've ever deemed jammed in the past. It's to say a joke. I don't ever go give it up. You know what I mean. There's guys 'cause girls will merely show there for doing her off screen shotted and they say <hes> this Guy <hes> they've told me guys that are famous that have done <hes> boy and what they've said I go if you just joke he we all get what's going on. You're tapping him on the shoulder and if they if they're not into it <hes> they're not into it so but I don't and you don't get mad. You don't take it further. It's all fun and Games because you don't want everything I've ever done. In this world. You picture screen shot right. That's where you send in the tender stuff or anything like that because the same reason I'm like I look I know my game is is not good with my bad my chubby friend that's not why the fuck was I mean I haven't why are you kidding me. Just sewer bombed by friend now. I was looking right at you and pointed at you and said I have a friend. That's fat and some people like him too because he didn't need to be. Oh I think I rewarded wrong. It keeps games coming out <hes> put back in the thing and spit it out again. No he was he was no he was actually overweight. You're just you're fine but he was never getting any action and then he goes. You don't tend Ras and I go. I any told me I can't do that and he goes you should because I wasn't seeing anyone for like a long time then he goes full can pop three girls in his shorts this week. I'm like what he was nailing right and left. After I go on he goes you just say like Kamal. Could what is this thing going to be an angel investor in that billion dollar company say and then the girls about six years then they finally got ten is just for Hook Yeah that was day one they finally together. I wind up having sex these guys so I never had that so. It was always like more hype with me but date date here and there but it was it wasn't like I think my buddy probably does way better so is the new line of need to wrap the new <hes> July twenty ninth. Is that why you know. I don't know why that thousand nine key lights out lights out. Is Mondays Com central after the daily show what I was actually. I was doing a lot of comedy central watching this weekend. What's the show about? I thought you you know commercials that just you in the desert. I know we'll put new ones on this week. where it's more they should show clips because we did some tests shows with people? It's basically a panel show so let's say I do a monologue then I come out with three always comedian so funny people I think Keighley's on that first week or Isla Fisher but it's always funny people like Comedians and we just take subjects shit on a make fun of co- not political really just more like Hollywood. Maybe some sports don't WanNa step on you gain but <hes> you know whatever just this bunny sports that are relatable because it's not just like only. Do you know what I mean. You got easiest kind if there's a sports story to spoon feed it but we can still shit on that. I should not think shitting on things David Spade. I'll give review review of Godzilla grammar game of thrones. I started watching game with those three shows for the end the whole match give a full review of I think it's good or not nothing who's this guy makes no sense. It's a movie or something <unk> but that I'll just try to do stuff that's kind of unique to me or my point of view my sense of humor and just that's a whole show. It's not going to be that much different than other shows but you either have to think I'm funny or not and then I'll have these guys trying to be funny just good time killer Taylor. Check it out well. Hopefully they'll be funny and they're usually pretty good. We have a lot of good comics in the store coming. You know guys you know. They're just come on to jokes. We make fun of it and make fun of each other so easy. peasy man's now rocket science Monday July twenty ninth on Comedy Central Lights. It's out with David Spade. Thanks a lot appreciate it guys. It's good to finally be making fun of me but I I mean that that David Spade is I was. I was gassed up to talk to him. He's like he's an important guy to me because like he he is just I liked it very much. We actually talked about that beforehand. Everyone's Rula. I know it will Davis paid whatsoever. I I don't know enough about I didn't enough but just the mere fact of to me when you look at someone who was has always surrounded by Farley Sandler talking about that last night it was a reasonable says rock yeah right yeah so at one point. He threw me for a loop. I was thinking was it though rock and he's also like he'd be cool enough that you'd be hanging out with Dwayne Johnson but he just actually meant rock Chris like he he's either. There's only there's only a few reasons why you could be down with cruise like that right. One is like you're just as talented as they are so he's in to like. You're the FUN party guy. They always around awesome three like he's the guy who's bringing the checks to the party also awesome like the every every reason why you would be hanging out with the legends of comedy makes you a legend in your own writing so he's been doing it. He's fifty five now. He's he's been thirty. Whatever your career so I mean he came in here like just very Kelly wouldn't guess he's a Michigan Yeah V._C._A.? Long long hair well at some point. When you're you know thirty years in you become tally? He was just like yeah whatever dickhead whatever you fucking borstal Douche bags. There's some people do that. It's annoying that somebody will do that. I'm like all right Kodeco Noel Miller these guys now I argued. I was blue in the face about Logan Paul but I understand that the way he does things and some of the attitude and whatever he brings can rub people the wrong way gives the YouTube Butch Youtube that Stigma Cody Cohen Noel Miller are like the polar opposite yeah. I called me anti EU Anti Youtube youtubers. They just happen to be on Youtube. They happen to fucking dominate it but there are a little bit older. The as you'll hear in the interview they had regular jobs so they're coming from a much more regular regular lifestyle and very well stand up. Comedian Code is just a youtube guy and they were really just a youtube millionaire just what just so give them a listen. Give them a shot because these guys are interesting. Dude what went sultry with it was cracking issue boy shape four five on five. Let's go stock my Mama and a face. Ah Cody Cody Miller Youtube sensations turned podcast powerhouse. Now you're on now. You're live on stage. Yeah we're doing it. You know I'm just wondering what do you think I'm going to let the frosted tip tip shiner like it. I like the look and how we doing boys good. How you doing doing all right? You know knock over several bottles of water. Ask Ten A._M.. East Coast Time but you're on west coast time so it's even fucking worse so we reached the stage where it's like any career ten. This is late. That is a good. That's a good sign at ten. Okay yeah you're on West. Coast is even worse. I I'm getting introduced to your whole world okay and in a weird way. It's kind of similar to what we do in a sense. It's like you find weird. Shit on the Internet went on it. I actually since following guys it's it's more stressful you guys tell me things I hate that I didn't even know existed so much energy that about like these Catholic girls that's talking. That's that's really our goal. It's a we don't want to make people laugh. We want people. It's very stressful. It's like I'm not even cool enough to know who to hate anymore. Now I know now I know but I mean we you know you're just doing it in youtube form but I've seen a lot of the same videos that you guys have looked at and we will. We'll just write about it or you. Guys obviously do it on Youtube and so really it's just about finding all the all the fucked up stuff on the Internet you drink and by the way that looks like you're doing like whiskey edible. It's just cold brew. He's getting started. Take Whole Plastic Cup of Hennessy someone post on their instagram story. It was like you can't drink all day. If you don't start in the morning this is a great great mantra live by but yeah anyway so the I mean finding the Internet is a deep deep dark place and I feel like you're finding the deepest darkest of it so because you're diving in there and get your hands there any man. Thanks Susan never ending a surplus of what the WHO let you have a computer are you. You guys kind of like puts us. Are you guys like do you consider yourself like the bad boys of Youtube randomly tubers is that was more like the bad boys of the Internet the whole the whole eloping. We'll go tag team matches. You WanNa man sells papers on winters get to say we're the real bad boys the blog nerds youtubers. That'd be a good match. The bad boys will be the naughty boys. Oh sure about that. That's a whole different thing you'll be in a whole different industry. which by the way we were just watching watching your video actually talking on the podcast? You were watching the video of the girl on the escalator. Oh Yeah Oh yeah oh yeah okay that's. That's can't call that girl that girl you have to know that girl's name check Eh if I'm to quit my girls that you didn't even Adrian Adrian. He's doing league to be fair to them like she's facing the wrong way. I still know more identifiable more recognizable face upside. We'll do the annoy beyond saying I could tell recognized by this spray. That's how I know that he's covering a lot of ground in her car. Whatever I follow her on snapchat for awhile and I ended up unfolding because it was just her blown Uber driver what if you are? I'm considering justify Adriana. I'm going to drive around. I'M GONNA check decline. Decline decline until age picks me up man really does Oh yeah she'll just she'll blow like anybody on site. You guys should get involved with that so all I need to blow youtuber today. We go just moved to New York off chance we have to like. I I'll check out I would. I don't follow her on twitter because Wallo because like people get notifications like Oh look who Pfizer's following that but I'll like twice a day I'll go and spend much time. Go and root should not she'll be like Yo. I'm going tomorrow land or whatever festivals recently need fifty guys to meet up for like blow. 'em Vessel Guy I my new thing is like the holy grail and I'm just GonNa make that my uber driver. I don't really get Lord. I think we could make this yeah. I think we'll just hang out every show blow you start Uber driving just during festivals vessels Komo double up yeah exactly yeah. That's two birds one stone it'll happen. Maybe a couple of times that weekend we do here. You're a law green. There's a standard Monday ten A._M.. Picture her like squirting getting into a car crash Wednesday when the priest comes around like the leaf. It got very really that real doesn't like toys league that we've got to get it down. That's fine but yeah it'll it'll quit. God Damn all right. I like making fun of us into early then. It's a little late for that. Let's fucking eggs from this one in two zero one hundred appetizing festival. What's it's the <hes>? What do you think like the weirdest? What's the worst of that's cringe? WHO's the one that stuck with you the most that you're just like what the fuck man you know man? Everyone is mostly cool who wasn't cool. It was only like the girl to find so like really and the that's the that's to be expected those type of people. They can't take a joke on the girl from the U.. One was like not please Oh yeah uh-huh yeah like made merch with the phrases to try and like Oh yeah unbothered they were right. That's the way to do. It doesn't bother me. I'M GONNA put it on a shirt like her. Boyfriend did like the the salty shit. He's like pay my bills okay man all right. You Got Backlash Four. It was the Paul's right I mean that's that's why I think he. He's a bad boy. You're a bully locum falls on our flight here yeah. We're doing like the whole Youtube circuit today worked out that way. Do you guys want stick around have a fistfight. Ah He's a huge dude. He's a big boy. You walked dude that but you know seeing them. In person the it's always different I expect actually on the opposite. Whenever never I meet someone different but mostly entertainers usually tiny? They're they're smaller than what are you saying. Is that why Jack the chairs. The fuck is going on microphones. Ah San Francisco real fast have you have you guys like dabbled with Tik. Tok yet talk. I feel like is the holy grail of cringe. I mean person on there right now. There's some there's some bleak shit on in fact. I don't even know the other side of it. The only only a couple of guys here fuck with Tik Tok and all they do is show you the bleak shit yeah. It just seems like a hopeless abyss of gross. Oh Yeah I was on like there's some twitter account called curse. Take talks or something like that where it's like someone like the worst of the worst and posts them and it's like I can't even believe that people exists and they're willingly like let me film this. put it out. This is good. This is the construction Russian workers make traps axe military horny. Guys are trying to get it in all the time man like you know. The top had dudes with Samurai swords in writing that with you know it's like the Milady dudes grew up just physically but everything else is reading thousand whatever the fuck I feel I feel tick. Tock just hasn't reached the coast yeah yeah. It's just straight middle vine was like a liberal elite coast thing. Take take talks. The MAGA- of it really is missing three teeth have like one sister who still lives with you. Baby don't fucker but she lives with adult who lives with his sister. Everything with is very yeah there America. <hes> and then just like teenage girls range dynamic yeah but so you guys both starting buying pretty much yeah I mean I I started doing. He didn't do vine longer than I was. Actually a stand up just did vine like a wreck on stage all the time. I'm so yeah yeah yeah and that was just like I mean quick flash in the Pan but if you got in right place right time and obviously led to much things obviously yeah yeah I mean I definitely have to thank for everything that's been happening but were you both software engineers. Oh really yeah normal. Miserable is for nine to five huge difference. Oh Yeah I think that's what I attribute my work ethic yeah doing comedy and stuff now. We're able to do so much shit. I'm like it's because we came from the conventional formula just like right just like you know grinding or whatever it's I mean even like when Shit gets bad stressful controversial here. I'm like whatever because it could be way exactly yeah already big on on Youtube vine kicked it no restarting scared it was brutal for me because that was like I'm Canadian right and so like that was around the time where I applied for my visa to be like an entertainer fulltime and so like wind basically died right when I got visa so I had to quit being an engineer then I was like so I went from like having this great salary two zero pretty much and having to restart on Youtube and like it wasn't working for a long time we I I was blogging three times a week. He was posting videos together basically basically every day of the week and it just wasn't like nothing was happening. What made it work was radio or one had found like that job robot videos house yeah and then I just sent it to him? He said we should make a video on this. Both of you guys acting like you wouldn't give that a whirl. I bought one invented it. It's actually mean Mary Jo robot money. That's kicks so so you have kind of not everything thank but a huge piece of the success of the blowjob robot yeah pretty much Americans their whole careers I would say we owed today so that his you guys what like overnight like ten times views or whatever you're used to and then all of a sudden it wasn't like overnight but it was like Oh shit like that was solid and then it was just like do it again do it again and then it got a bit attraction and <hes> wants to start doing that. Then one thing led to another crazy he had started podcast and I didn't episode and their wells figures star gas and then now we're here. I guess it's a vile yeah. Everything's from that like we start. Make music then we started doing live stuff and <hes> it's been is all live stuff now. That's what we're going to promote gang and you guys have fucking girls on tour with you. You guys are Youtube. Star modern rock girls on they gave me a direct line at all times here pay health surveillance so tiny Miyang is the podcast which you also now do onstage shows more like stand standup shades of everything we do so that's what I was going to ask you a scripted act or is it just shooting. It's more scripted but like we leave room for yeah. Definitely it's wild. We just we've had a couple years. We've been doing some live shows but really back on it for the first time I'm about to do it consistently and it just feels like it's kind of like the wild west where it's like there for the taking so you're not quite a stand up comedian. You're not gonNA podcast. You're somewhere in between you're doing hybrid but people are coming out. It's wild scene. Yeah I mean I think the crowd were part. Artist is the best way is the most entertaining like every show have like something weird or on sodium even smile. He's just like fuck your haircut uh-huh Damn you look like Shit. Our audience was so ugly. Do you feel like you're trying to figure out how just how famous Amos you guys are are you. I mean in certain circles. Obviously it's a huge deal. We kind of feel a little bit with the blog world but then outside of nobody there's people who have no fucking idea who you are. Are you like in that world or do. Are you like people all all over the place no you at this point it's getting I don't know it's it's recently. It's been like everywhere we go. It'll be people it's a good feeling so you know you don't sound right yeah. I mean ego boost. I fucking picture. That actually answered my question. Is that at the point where you're like fuck. I don't WanNa take another picture picture. Only recently has gotten to the point where people are like coming up like at dinner and shit like that gets annoying like jamming their phones on our faces with people that are already on facetime time being like hey can you say out of my friend. That's that's the only point where I'm like a little bit like this hawks but other than that. It's always like now for sure. So have you developed the because we we our world is very small but in the same thing happens. Have you dealt with the six cents where you can just feel someone behind. You got a camera on me right. Now I mean it. It varies like I think like the age definitely dictates what they're going to do like if they're younger they. They're <hes> not subtle at all. I mean you in the starbucks dog. Good look this way you see like the fucking I had the best one on the other day we had we had this terrible bit and is do just comes out to me and our buddy spock over eating lunch just broad daylight much corporate people hanging around. He's like I got so much fucking come in my ass. WHOA good to meet you just walked right into a huge fan of my favorite bit uh-huh somebody just tied? That's something while ninety five percent of everyone is is super cold or super nice so does does the age difference like you guys are what twenty eight twenty nine and one but yeah I feel you know your demo probably skews pretty low but now it's eighteen eighteen to twenty four all right. That's pretty standard yeah a lot of college kids yeah. That's the bulk of it but then like we definitely have a good chunk outliers. We have like I mean it's like when you're like sixteen to wash like C._K._y.. And like assholes asshole cool yeah if people like dad but then we'll have doozer straight up like forty coworkers will show my four year old right here podcast podcast skew more male and like a little bit older and then Youtube skews a little bit younger so like we'll get everything like we'll. We'll get like senior. Citizens Life support do blood transfusions the show well man. It sounds like you guys are doing good you covering all your bases aces. The tiny meet gang is is what kind of the musical group slash podcast last live performers your bad boys of the Internet this little bad boys. We're talking to you. We appreciate you boys coming through. We're about to go answer some questions from the Internet. If you don't mind we'll get we're with it. Go follow on Youtube. Listen to podcasts by some tickets the whole nine yeah guys. Thank you all right big. Thank you to the that's cringe tiny meet gang guys. It's interesting to see like the two different sides of Youtube. You know like we said the Anti Youtube youtubers. They're not the what's up guys. All up in your family tried had to do that. Yeah I never did that right. We tried to have like I don't know I can't I can't do it. I can't do it in my book Bro. Yeah he's drawing beautiful posts book. It's fucked up it is interesting though because like we did try to dabble in in the world of blogging and I said as much in the interview you have to be active and do stuff in order to really have like a consistent because otherwise you can do have live but it's trust just behind the scenes but unless you're very active or constantly coming up with material the blog world is tough and that's where I think everyone is always what's up you do but those guys have found a way to be like they just sit in front of the computer. They do Internet stuff and they talk about it. It's amazing. It's that's that's what is the most relatable millionaire really but k hats off to them for just finding a way to do what everyone else does but doing it in a very unique unique enough way that everyone's like. I want to watch them. Do we all do that. We all just sit around the Internet going. Oh my God you see that video so fucking cringe-worthy were the they just get millions of dollars to fucking speaking millions of dollars we go now talk to the man with many millions of dollars is the best the best come mich- in the Game Dana White we're talking can U._S._c. to forty and all things m._M._a.. Bob Fox about the join us. Let's talk to commission. What's up Dana? Everybody how we doing man. I'm great how are you. I'm good. It's Kevin John and we got your boy Robbie Fox here where this is well. What's what's up Dana? So we got to forty is upon us this weekend. You're and we got we got Max Holloway versus Frankie Edgar in the main event featherweight title fight hell of a fight but we were more curious about how come you have not done the bottle cap challenge seeing as how the guy in the fight this weekend is the one who made that such a sensation everybody else in the world has done it where is Uncle Vinas bottled county Alan and you're the marketing guru I I need. I need I need. I think I saw some Samurai in that office with your tour I need. I need a Samurai slice off a bottle cap I think I I don't know if it's not really my thing. Ah I'll tell you why it's not anyone's thing I think I tried. It probably two weeks ago my back still not right so it's probably smart for doing that but you throw a sword at it. See what happens. Is that something though if your book your backup imagine what it's going to do to me take you are in far better shape that I so you you probably got a better shot than I do as the as the marketing guru like he says though when you see something like that go viral and you realize it's one of your guys who are just kind of did it on a whim and now all of a sudden it's Oh U._f._c. exposure and you got a guy you know getting into the getting a lot more eyeballs than you ordinarily would. Is that something where you are just seeing dollar signs and you're like Ka Ching no not really but it but it's cool. I think that you know one of the things about mixed martial arts and about our athletes is they all have these different personalities. They're all unique and interesting and different than their own ways and I think that our our fighters do a lot of fun things on social media <hes> there's a Lotta people in the sport while so unfortunately in the fighting world there was some some horrible tragic news in the boxing world and I know that Bob was explain to me. How you're you are kind of thinking about diving into a boxing promotion yourself if you were involved in a situation like that? How do you think you would handle it? I've always thought about that. When you're in the business? It's something that you obviously have to think about and that's why we go okay so overboard on medical you know we always make sure that everybody's healthy before during and after about and we go so incredibly overboard on on medical <hes> and and it makes the sport a lot safer <hes> but one of the things I would like to say when when something like that happens it reverberates throughout the entire industry when when I say industry I mean fighting period. Everybody feels it and you know everybody. They can't even explain to you where everybody goes and how you feel when something like that happens to such a young talented guy and much respect to buddy mcgirt for his corner work and begging egging him to stop that fight that was a tough scene to watch it. Really you know it's not envious of anybody in the corner position when when something like that is going on because it's kind of a lose lose either way but yeah <hes> he did his best there for sure definitely Dana a lot of guys pushing like that to please stop the fight begging him. Stop the flight and you know it's like buddy mcgirt news crazy. It's a very very powerful very powerful thing. I'm actually posted on that today with props to buddy yet definitely dentists Robbie on the brighter side of things. Your birthday is coming up this weekend. I wanted to ask you bad writer Selena. It's definitely Brady thirty five this year Dana I would imagine a guy like yourself has had some crazy birthdays. So have you ever had one of those crazy celebrity birthday parties that has a guest list where you're just blown away by the names on it shack and all those guys I would say my fortieth birthday was like that my fortieth birthday was pretty crazy. Stone Temple pilots played at my birthday. I was getting with that question Stone Temple pilots I how how does that even unfolded day like is that a favor or is a paid thing or is it just like yeah. We're we're all boys. We'll just do a set for you know my my wife put together my fortieth birthday and it was incredible with surprise and she's totally got me surprised me. I had no idea you know I thought we were GonNa go to dinner or something. Some of the usual suspects would be there but <hes> the level this party was and it was so bad ass right up to Joe Rogan going up on stage and giving giving a speech and then introducing Stone Temple pilots because I shouldn't even say they didn't have a stage they had it was all you know cartons off so it didn't even look like we're in a ballroom didn't even know there was a stage there and all of a sudden the curtain dropping Joe Rogan goes don't apply with Pas oh man fucking and credit. I mean that's that's pretty tough to talk before. He died. Yeah I mean that is that's going to go down in history but I'm looking at the other celebrity birthdays from July twenty and it looks like soldier boy also shares a birthday with EU Osha along with Lori Laughlin a couple of people who've been that's all listen to people. I think we're literally in jail right talk. If you WANNA have yourself birthday though you know maybe maybe get them out and get yourself a time man hello vitriol. It should be a hell of a fight this weekend. Though we appreciate you call an end on it. Take up too much time as you are the busiest best and doc. Would you say I said you were today. Would you say so. I don't know I I don't know listen. When you look at everybody? Everybody's shift on Adele. I wouldn't take Adele job no matter what what they're paying them. No I wouldn't want forty Mil man forty year gave it shifted that guy has to go through on a daily basis and you know all the different you know egos and personalities personalities that he has to deal with on so many different levels from players to owners <hes> two G._M.'s its job man. Oh yeah like you don't know anything about Managing Egos Dana onto Conor McGregor Aviv and yeah you you know anything about that. I Love I love this sport. I love what I do and I can't even imagine not doing this and <hes> you know so when I talk about other leagues I I don't know the daily ship that they go through so for me to judge them. I care but the fact that you even that thank you. I appreciate it and I think you were out of silver but like you'll call us up and you'll say fuck. I don't fucking life you. Are you know you know exactly how to appeal to the to the regular guy hi out there so I'm going to give you the edge humility for not taking it. That just makes me want to give it to you more. You know exactly what you're doing you son of a bitch. You know we appreciate it man. Everybody's GonNa make sure they get the paper you this weekend and we'll talk to you soon man. Thanks guys you too all right. Thank you Dana White as well our third guest today unfortunately right after we were done said he wanted to fight Habib is like dream fight would've been a great legacy he called it was as soon as we hung up the phone with them went over. Are there on my twitter and you knew you know Dan away. We'll have some bomb ass quote for whoever he just did the next phone hitter with solid I mean I don't know if there's a bomb I mean it's just so good yeah. I got ozzy like after that interview I went and sat added my desk and I was like He. He's the commissioner of a Billion Dollar Company and he'll gap bucket. I don't give a shit awesome awesome. He like challenges like Oscar de la Hoya to a fight and he's fucking stuff in Rosella lockers with US says he won't take fucking Roger Goodell's job all the money in the world. I mean that that I wanted to basically say that's a testament to one thing and one thing only how rich you are take a Arthur Brough the just so I think what he is he's such a a bastion for authenticity where I think that almost that gives me hope for us and for Barcelona company I it's just so someone who's been lucky in that doesn't agree successful but people like him so much because he's real. He's just like you always my language. I say Fuck Fuck Yeah granted. It's violence boards that they've used for. There's no way you can do that with their silver came out and said fuck you would be right and he's done it in a way where he's kind of grandfathered in. It's not like he doesn't make a stink about it either. He's not gonNA. You're not gonNA have a quote of him saying I don't on censor myself. I say whatever I want. Does it and there's really but I really do think what matters is. Nobody is ever going to consider. Emma may be like a role model organization like the kids shouldn't and probably aren't watching it and so I was GonNa to say that I stopped myself because I I may gyms. I probably have all over the place kids fight yeah but it's not super duper mainstream but I mean kids do it it. It's always been a thing you know like. The kid gets bullied techs boxer yeah so you know you're not gonNA kids aren't tuning into the midnight pay-per-view. Do you think are but as you be that they're not going to be a role model. They probably are but it's not a it's not accepted that way so he gets away with wherever you want does it in a very authentic and charming manner so all right. I think so Dana put it on the table. It would break it would break like the Spanish announcer's table W._w._f.. Smashing it what happened here Dan. I put the Dick on it. It's positive for his birthday. He's gotTa Hey oh yeah no not even on stages just like fuck you. Thank you actually look at what you see <music> <music> her.

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Detective Story

Dateline NBC

1:24:31 hr | 11 months ago

Detective Story

"I'm Lester Holt tonight. On dateline a murder mystery that was ice cold until detectives discovered a trail leading uncomfortably hillbilly close to home. She was the star when she one of a kind he opens the door and sees his wife. She'd obviously been killed here in chalk. It can't be real what happened. Why were you heard? The burglary theory was pleased to everybody's favourite conspiracy Baresi theory. That cops covers other cops. You're out of your mind. I just came to the conclusion that was never going to be solved. A bite swab up had been collected by the coroner's office. There should be. DNA turns out. She was bitten by a woman we started with the family. We worked out that moment. That call never never forget it. That changed everything. Pierce Josh Markowitz win detective stories in December nineteen eighty five for many families. Atypical Christmas the Rasmusen family of Tucson Arizona. It would be a Christmas of firsts and lasts. It was the first Christmas for twenty eight year old Sherry Rasmusen and John Rotten as husband husband and wife was also a time to celebrate the first child of the next generation. Sheri's Knees Rachel First Christmas. I was told that I had chicken pox so it was not very comfortable and the only person who can make me happy was my aunt Sherry. It's Rachel and her younger sister. Jessica only know their aunt sherry through videos photos stories. Their family told them why. Why wouldn't you take her from such a young age from a very loving family that MRS hair greatly? Rachel's Joel's first. Christmas back in Nineteen eighty-five was also her aunt cherries last Christmas on earth. 'twas it and to see her and then at the same time it hurts and it makes me angry because I feel like why isn't she here. Why did someone have to take away? The mystery of what happened to Sherry Rasmusen would take more than two decades to solve while her family waited with a hole in their hearts uh Teresa was so close to her sister sharing. She often called her while on her. Ten Am break. Mike on that Monday Monday morning in February nineteen eighty six and her secretary said she was homesick so I called her at home after that Sherri didn't pick up and when Theresa's phone rang late that night it wasn't sherry returning call answered the phone. She Killed Doc. I sat up screened bed. Not just killed murdered in her own home. The third sister Connie was next to get the call. It was close to midnight by the time I I heard that I started screaming. Shocked and sleep deprived. The Rasmusen family met up but the L. A. Airport and then they went straight to. LAPD's Van Nuys Station. Were sure he's case was being handled. The police tell you what happened. I believe believe at that time. They told my parents that that she was a fight in her home and had been chide. Her injuries were extensive Disturbing journalist Matt McGaw. They wrote a book about the investigation. John Carey's husband came home from work that night around around six. PM and went upstairs and discover charities body when police got to the scene. They found video and stereo equipment stat. Just inside the front door as if someone is in the act of burglarizing and suddenly discover the homeowner is home and there's a confrontation tation and it goes sideways. Jon and Sherry had been married just three months by all accounts. John was distraught that at night. Too distraught apparently to break the news to share his family. He didn't call you to tell you jerry been murdered. He didn't call you. They even call your parents instead. John had his dad call. Sheri's parents tell me that Sherry had been murdered and so I told his dad. I WanNa talk to John. And he said John doesn't feel like talking Sheri's family says when when they finally met with John at the. Lapd Van Nuys Station the day after the murder he still wasn't talking. I thought his behavior was odd that he was more concerned about himself than about Sherry also. Well naturally I'd questions because he he had first hand information because he found Jerry he wouldn't talk to us Odd But he did speak with detectives. John what is your wife's name Sheri. She's a nurse Director of Nursing Glendale Adventist Hospital. Awesome everything going so you John John. The mayor believe the murder happened sometime between seven thirty and ten. AM and. John seem to have an alibi for that time. He said he'd left early that morning for Work Anti said sure it was a week then but still in bed. Seven Twenty S. I got to work about candidate. The detective asked him point blank. Your wife did you okay very good. John Even agreed sixteen days after the murder to take a polygraph. The graph he sat and he was asked questions. It was recorded in the detectives notes as inconclusive because he was too emotional ocean all series entire family was shattered and it was only going to get worse when we return. Turn inside. What seem like a very happy marriage? Don't over her so that always made me feel good and later the trail goes cold. They were GONNA take a psychic out to see if they could figure out what went on and In nineteen eighteen eighty six Los Angeles saw a spike in murders driven mostly by the intersection of drugs and gangs. We have continue shootings poets just a war zone by year's end. Eight hundred thirty four people in the city of La would die at the hands of another. It was close to a record the murder of Sherri Rasmusen that February was number one hundred thirty eight except that doesn't quite tell the story eight because in death as in life Sherry seemed to stand out from the crowd Sherry was the middle child of three three daughters. She was smart athletic and Tom by age. Sixteen she was six feet. Her sisters say Suri's enthusiasm for life swept up their whole family. She always wished I would've never learned how to snow ski except for. She drug us all to Taus New Mexico to learn how to snow ski and she would push everybody else to do better. Yes even now that she's gone. I think she forces me to be a better person. They're still living up to that standard. Oh Heck Yeah. From the very beginning Sherry set the bar high in kindergarten. She was advanced to the place where the teacher would just use her as an assistant. Five years old yes sure. He went on to skip to grant and Edward Nursing School in Southern California at Sixteen. It didn't it. Seem like there was nothing she could not do. And not just do be great at. Yeah well she couldn't so so there's Sherry had considered medical school but even at sixteen she knew a nurse's hours would be more family friendly because another goal of hers was having a husband and kids. dissing your dad wanted her to become a doctor Yes yes he did then she resisted that yes. No one told her what to do. Even including your parents. Her parents thought Los Angeles was a dangerous place. And we're worried about Sherry living there. They also knew they had had no say in that either so they helped her by a condo in a gated complex with secure parking sherry. Couldn't say no to that. She could be stubborn in some ways ways but what stroker's sisters share. He's compansion when she would lose a patient. I could tell when she come home how it affected her. She definitely didn't have this emotional wall between herself. She was taking care of our now. She was right there with them by twenty six. She was a nursing supervisor. At twenty seven seven Sherry had fast tracked the Hospital Management as a manager. She was excellent. Jim Goldberg was Sherry's colleague and for a while her roommate. I can remember staff saying you know when you go to Sheri's office even if there's a problem you always come out feeling better about yourself for a manager it really is. Jesus Sheri's life was good a happy single twenty-something and then Sherry met the one she had gone to a party and came back talking about this guy and you know she was sort spent and and he was tall which was important. I mean when you're there's somebody who's very confident and very tall. There aren't a lot of men who don't feel intimidated. The toll man's name name was John Rotten and he seemed as smitten as Sherry and he's tall. He's ambitious. He was an engineer. They enjoyed running playing tennis. Still still. He's taken off all the boxes. Yes and she was clearly of this guy you can tell. From the way she was talking she was happy she was happy. I mean Sherry and John and look gorgeous together. I think they've made a very stunning couple dote over her. So that always made me feel good November. Twenty third in Nineteen eighty-five a little over a year. After they met John Carey married. Algae and Johnson. Antastic if you look at the wedding pictures you can see. My assessors is how excited and happy John Sherry sunup house in her secure Condo Sister Teresa and her husband visited the newlyweds. It's one sunny. La Sunday three months after the wedding when went on a short walk and they were walking in front of us and holding hands and talking gene and they didn't have a care in the world now has it was a good day. It was in fact the last good day twenty four four hours later she rasmusen would be dead. Coming up three rounds were fired. All of them were heads gets bullets and a bite. Mark and her left inner forearm. It was very obvious. It wasn't just small impressions. They were red and raw when Dateline Continues Continues UH LAPD homicide detective. Rob Bob knows the Rasmusen case as well as anybody now retired above agreed to walk us through it from the perspective of the original detectives who arrived on the scene that first night John Rutten returns home after Tur- A day of work and the door is ajar which alarms him he opens the door looks inside and sees his wife Sherri Very Rasmussen. She's lying on her back in the middle of the living room wearing essentially what he had left her wearing that morning when he went to work He went over and checked her orange. It obviously been killed when the police. I arrived They removed John from the scene. The detective in charge back then was a senior homicide guy named lyle. Mayor Player now retired. He's not talking with us. He's the one who spoke with John Rotten the night of the murder and began the search for Sheri's killer art killers. Has she had any problems at work. Her worst tough every day. She's got a hard job. No but I mean if she had any problems sounds unusual. She's very problems with an ex-boyfriend or are you an ex girlfriend. John's grief along with his work work. Alum I seem to rule him out as the killer have used a pretty good judge of character. Certain absolutely nothing to do with this it to understand how the murder unfolded. It helps to know the layout of John Kerry's Condo tall and narrow. The the first floor is the living room. The second floor is the kitchen dining area and the third floor the bedrooms the original investigating detectives believed the attacks started on the second floor where evidence indicated to gunshots were fired. There were two holes through a curtain and then through a sliding glass door that led out into the parking area of the the town home. The original detectives thought the two rounds were Mrs assists and that a fight ensued down the stairs into the living room area. It was here on the first floor where Sherry Rasmusen last minutes were spent in a brutal and bloody fight for her life. Whoever attacked share used almost anything as a weapon even vase that was smashed over her head in the blunt force trauma Injuries were particularly disturbing The right side of her face her I was swollen and blackened. She was actually Pistol whipped possibly times. A Stereo speaker was had fallen. Down was very near her head. There was a finger to fingernails near the front door and clothesline or small thin rope Also near the front door of the apartment at some point Sherry was bitten on her left. Inner enter forearm It was very obvious wasn't just small impressions. They were red and raw when the the original detectives noticed that she sustained that bite mark to her left forearm. It gave them the knowledge that this was an up close and personal fight. The fight only came to an end when Sherry Rasmusen was shot while she was down on the ground. Three rounds were fired. All of them were hits while she was down on the first floor. Low on the wall in the entry way investigators found what seemed to be Sheri's bloody handprint hand. Bread of Sherry's on the wall is so haunting thing leaving. That print is probably one of the last things he did on this Earth yes. The original detectives also noted what to them appeared to be a major clue. There were some stereo components that had been removed from an entertainment center. As if someone were going to pick up all the items that they gathered and leave the apartment there was a drawer that was pulled off from a table in between two sitting chairs in the living room and that had been dumped cherries purse and car a brand new BMW. Three eight thousand nine. Hi We're missing the whole tableau convinced. Those nineteen eighty-six detectives but this was a heist that had gone south. They walked in. They saw what appeared to be a burglary. And so that's what they ran with. Mayor was so certain it began as a burglary. He even shared his theory with John the the night of the murder. I believe Your House was burglarized today sometime before ten. Am I believe they got in your front door by prying the front door. I believe they were trying to steal your stereo on visual except Sherry had called in sick that day and when the burglars were taking the Stereo Equipment they knocked down one of the shelves and they knocked over one of the speakers and that those noises from inside the apartment alerted Sherry. She came downstairs to confront the burglars when she did. The struggle ensued. One burglar left taking their car. The second one fought plot killed Sherry in the living room area and then not having that car went down into the sub basement. Parking area steals your car and steals her car to leave the the location while bulletin went out for Sheri's BMW crime scene. Investigators diligently comb through the house in search of evidence. Photos were taken blood samples collected and fingerprints dusted they even collected saliva from the bite. Wound on Sheri's arm remember. This was nineteen eighty-six before DNA testing change law enforcement based on the science of the day. If they could get a blood typing from it it would be a big step in Identifying or at least in assisting to identify a suspect later on Mir believed the apartment was rich with evidence pointing to a botched burglary so much so even boasted the John they would sue fine. The killers Kish these offers. Are this person to me or very successful very very successful and and sure enough just weeks. Later mayor was convinced he was closing in on. Sherry's murderers coming up. The woman had returned and her apartment and a surprise to men inside. Detectives thought it was the same burglars who killed Sherri Sherri friend thought. Police were completely league on the wrong track. When you heard that burglary theory it makes sense? Dan There's only one person here knows what Cherry wasn't a wife Shiri Four days after Sherry Rasmusen murder came a very difficult buckled. Good Bon John was a mess. His color was just ashen his hands. Were just shaking. You know if he had been a patient I would have expected him to go into cardiac arrest did pull himself together enough to say a few words by just want to thank you all for coming in. I want you to know that Sherry was the best professional in the world. She was the best wife that anybody could ever have and she was the best sister daughter she wanted to make everybody happy. I was still in this state of shock. But one of the things that did get through my The fog was the number of people that love Sherry and respected her. It was overwhelming. How many people were there? There's a ripple effect for murder. No one can anticipate how deep the loss will cut. Until you're seeing through your own tears. I was a nurse I I had always dealt with grief. I had to give people the clothing of their beloved after they had died. But I'd never known grief like this. I had no now. I realize until this happened over the weeks after Sherry died as family and friends learned how to live without her detectives locked onto what they thought was a crucial new lead. Another burglary in Sherry's neighborhood. Just a couple of blocks away. A woman had returned to her apartment. Surprise to men inside one ram pastor the second pointing the gun at her two detectives. This seemed like the same scenario. They believed had and Linda Sheri's murder. It's not a giant leap to think. These are the same guys no not at all not with the proximity the time of Day And basically the same AMMO. Detective Law Mayor held a press conference. We have obtained fingerprints in the crimes. We are of the opinion at this point that the suspects may be illegal aliens. He came with police sketches of the two suspects. He thought what were responsible for. Both crimes are Los Angeles station. Another detectives asked the public to call. Van Is police with any any information that might solve this case before the gunmen strike again. The detectives seems certain they were Oughta something Sheri's friend Jane was was not assure you lived in that Condo for three years. Yes you never worried about safety now. I never did no it. It felt very safe when so you heard the burglary theory it makes sense. You know my theory is she came down to feed. The cat went into the kitchen if it had been burglars who were in the living room the way the condo setup. They could've just leaned against that. One Wall waited until she was around the corner in the kitchen and walked right out the front door without her seeing exactly and that's what burglars do they don't want to confront people writer. Matt McGrath points out. These burglars didn't seem to know what they were doing. If you're looking for valuables are you gonNA look in a junk drawer and the living room bedroom. Yes where Sherry. How did you already box that was undisturbed? Her person taken but two men founded before nightfall the day of the murder and gave it to a neighbor the missing BMW showed up within in two weeks. That car was discovered by an officer who was driving past it and was alert and recognized that matches the description. Nazism take some job. Shop laughed with the keys in the ignition. Series family gave the police other leads such as a nurse at the hospital where Sherry worked after being passed over for promotion. The nurse started harassing Sherry C.. Wouldn't give her the job. I know that that she he had this curiosity walker out her car for a period of time because of the harassment at work. That's a little ominous but she stuck to her guns and sharing. That was the cops never followed up on that nurse or on the other woman. The family told them about this one. An ex-girlfriend of John's Sherry told her dad. The woman would just show up sometimes seemingly out of nowhere nells didn't know the ex girlfriend's maim and anyway detective seemed uninterested instead. They kept looking for the burglars but they didn't find them and before too long. The case Lisa Sherri Rasmussen began to go very cold coming. Our family had a hard time existing as a family way again loved ones looking for answers. After fifteen years. Will they finally get one. I saw that a bite swab had been collected by the coroner's office with that Swab there should be DNA when dateline containers mm-hmm LAPD detective. Lyle mayor in his team kept searching but not finding a homicidal burglars they were convinced had killed Cherry Raza. They were going to take a psychic out to to to see if they could figure out what went on. I thought Oh. That's odd psychic. Okay you probably predicted this. This book the psychic didn't sense anything that moved the case forward with the investigation stalled a murders ripple effect continued. Our family had a hard time. Existing has a family again properly. I mean 'cause we were missing that part sharing Sharing one of their last intact moments. was that Christmas when Baby Rachel was the focus. On all the attention of your baby rut increase share. There would never be a baby. Rutten for Sherry John Sherry was gone leaving behind a long series of those ripples a murder can spawn. The loss of my aunt Sherry has impacted my entire tire life. We were always had a sense of needing to protect ourselves and to be safe killer was still out there and her family had no answers. Maybe time would make the difference and maybe it wouldn't in one thousand nine hundred ninety one five years after Sheri's murder Detective Mayor Retired and the case was passed onto new detectives. Working the homicide desk in van is along with their parents Sherry very sisters. Connie and Theresa went back again to Van Nuys Station to meet them. They put us in interrogation room and they came in the weather. Little skinny folder about this big. The family soon realized these new detectives didn't have anything new to offer. Detective mayor was gone on by the but the theory was still. There's a burglary and somehow turn it over murder right. They did meet with us but it was also more of a it was like a show. He's dead nails cope by trying to solve the case himself as a father you. He had felt a responsibility to protect her. And the the only way that in her death he could protect her was to find out who killed her he would constantly re dissect the information that we knew in nineteen ninety-three. Now's read about something new forensic. DNA testing nels Rasmussen reading about DNA and the advances that that's brought to criminology offers to pay for DNA testing the department says no correct. Unfortunately it's not something that our department is is going to accept it's just not the way the quote unquote business end of the department works and so no. DNA testing was done. The rasmussens sponsons went on living their lives without that missing piece was a loss. Felt all the way down to the youngest generation including Sherry's other niece Jessica everytime I would succeed in something my mother my grandfather would remind me about how I must have got my athletic build from my aunt. Cherry and really feeling that not having the opportunity to bond with her over that commonality of things it was very sad more years passed then in two thousand one fifteen years after Sherry was killed a detective supervisor with the LAPD proposed a new unit. That would harness new technologies to analyze bullets fingerprints. And the new thing nels and ask about the NA we we had six to nine thousand unsolved murders of the city of Los Angeles cliff. Shepherd is now retired. He was one of the first six detectives. What's in that new open unsolved unit as you're going through those cases you come up on the case of Sherry Rasmusen yes nineteen ninety-six martyr? Not solved correct. What made you include that? In the cases you submit it with her case. I saw that a bite swab had been collected by the coroner's office. That's okay with that Swab. There should be DNA. That is if shepard could find the swamp. The coroner's office said they didn't have it. I checked with our evidence room. They didn't have it. I looked at our property reports. It's not booked. How could that happen? Incompetence that avalon. Yes shepherd showed us the note he wrote to remind himself back then to follow up on the missing swap as is it happened Jennifer Francis criminalist in the LAPD crime lab saw his note and set out the fine that Swab herself which she did hit. The envelope was torn. The writing was faded but the tube containing the swab was still there and intact. Now we have A swap and suddenly. You're in business. Well he thinks cold cases are not the priority in the crime lab. Today's murders are it. Took took about a year before Francis called shepherd with the results of the DNA test and the finding when it did come was a major surprise. She she called me and said hey this is unknown females DNA That is not what I was expecting because the theory had been these were two the male burglars correct but now turns out. She was bitten by a woman. A woman that changed the police theory but only a little given even the violence at the crime scene. Shepherd did not see it as a woman acting along I believed that okay. There's a woman and then there's a map up Sherri had been clubbed from behind knocked down or unconscious and then somebody stood over her and shot just like the original case. Detective Shepherd Shepherd thought it had to be a burglary turn. Violent Sheri's family had always doubted that theory but none of their concerns made it into the official case file known as the murder book when I look at that murder book. was there anything in it and suggested you. The original detectives have been going on there on trial now so now shepherd started looking for male female burglar teams but he didn't get very far a serial killer on the loose in south. La took priority. When I came into the next day I had learned that I'm now going to go to a task force to try to catch this guy? This has nothing to do with the murderers era asmus. No now no except that. I'm now told that all my other murders. I'm not supposed to work on and cliff. Shepherd says he never reached Out to the Rasmin since I did want to build up their hopes crushed. He also didn't think the family would have any useful information because they lived so far away away. My belief was living in Arizona. They didn't know day-to-day things going on their daughters Life but you would have been wrong about. That would have been very wrong. The murder book was shipped back to Van Nuys Station where it sat on the shelf for a few more years until yet another detective picked it up and found the key. Not that unlocked a mystery coming up a new detective for me. Everything changed with that blood on that stereo equipment and a new theory of a crime or was the mangle not the burglary and super bowl Sunday. A two thousand nine. LAPD homicide detective. Jim Not all spent the day like millions of other Americans watching the game with a houseful of friends and and a fridge full of beer super bowl. Sunday is like a holiday to me. So we were. We're having a good time late. which left not all beat and Leery? I League dragged himself at a work the following morning commit early o dark thirty and I was tired of it was the perfect data cup of coffee and then do some reading in two thousand nine not all work homicide out of the Lapd Van Nuys Station. We're Sherri Rasmussen's murder investigation began. That's not all randomly waded into it. That hung over Monday morning. Dateline has been covering this case for ten years. We spoke with not all in two thousand twelve. was there a point where the department just kind of give up on this case repeatedly we we closed it in nineteen eighty six closed in nineteen ninety-three. We closed it in nineteen ninety nine we close it again in two thousand and five at that point. It sat on a shelf in two thousand eight. It was sent to US Archives Archive meeting deep storage. A death sentence for the Rasmusen case before that happened. Though it's not all had to give the murder books one last read it was four books thick four volumes deep. Not all knew nothing about the Rasmusen in case before that day but midway through volume one he was hooked taken in by Sherry Rasmusen strength and tenacity as she fought for life life and death struggle Sherry is doing whatever she can do to get out of that house or get help everything not all red and saw fit the narrative errative that this was a burglary that had turned horribly violent. At least that's what he thought until he noticed a peculiar detail in Mayer's Year's report that stereo equipment police found stack near the door of the CONDO had blown on it Sheri's blood that was noted but never ever closely photographed for me. Everything changed with that lot on that stereo equipment to not all that meant cherries attacker or attackers move the stereo to the entry entry way after got bloody after the fight not before as the original theory went meaning that maybe this wasn't simply a burglary. read the gone off the rails. She's dead or dying and if you wanted that stereo equipment you had every opportunity in the world to walk out the door with it. Why Stack and leave it? At that point you start to draw the conclusion that murder was the main goal. Not The burglary all began to think the original investigation was was seriously flawed. His supervisor detective raw bob came to think so as well I think the original detectives there were some oversights Especially in the area of interviews but if you assume that Sherry is simply the victim of burglary them her past her other relationships Asian ships. What's going on with her husband? None of that matters now. It doesn't if if you're focused if you're that sure that it was a burglary the rest of that doesn't play. Bob also had a problem with the collection of evidence that blood on the Stereo. For example in the middle of it was a fingerprint unfortunately it was never recovered. The never gets lifted never gets tested. no-one lifted it. No one tested at no one book the Stereo Component into evidence It was lost for time but not all also paid attention to what looked like ligature marks around Sheri's wrists it appeared. The suspect suspects brought that ligature into the home to restrain a potential victim. That doesn't really sound like a burglary does not sound like a burglary as far as allen. Bob were concerned. The whole burglary gone wrong. Theory that investigators had worked for the past twenty. Three years was no longer viable. So then what what. They didn't have an alternate theory until not all got to this entry in the murder book a lab report not all had never seen before for that DNA profile taken from the saliva found in the bite. Mark on Sheri's arm. We had a woman responsible or involved with this crime. Dr When Detective Cliff Shepherd had seen that report four years earlier he started looking for a male female burglar team and got nowhere now with his new theory of the crime. Jim Not all went in another direction. He started looking for a lone female killer. You're a woman who the reason to target Sherry Rasmusen only once you debunk burglary theory. And you have a female L.. DNA profile now this case becomes manageable now becomes a matter of time coming up. Who Wanted Sheri he dead? We had five women that we felt were close to Sherry and perhaps some of them may have had a motive the hormones and later a top secret investigation. We made a determination along each other. We'd never say her name when dateline continues. True crime is my passion. If you're listening to the show I'm guessing you can relate but sometimes even I need the occasional break and when I'm looking for a mental pallet cleanser my go-to refresher is best fiends. Best best fiends is a five star rated mobile puzzle game and it only took me a couple of minutes of playing to figure out where all those five star ratings are coming from. It's fun it's challenging the gameplay changes every once in a while I'm already level thirty five and it has stayed exciting the entire time I've been playing. You can play off line too so best. Beans is great for travel on a plane train. Aim Wherever you find yourself. All of my upcoming holiday travel is definitely going to be a lot more manageable knowing. I have this superfund game in my pocket to pass the time. Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters with best beans. Trust me with over a hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best fiends for free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best means Returning to our story. That told me that she killed killed. Four two decades police were convinced newlywed Sherri. Rasmussen was murdered by two male burglars. Her injuries were extensive The killer left behind a valuable clue a bite. Mark Bite Swab had been collected by the coroner's office with that Swab there should be. DNA Eh but that was years before DNA could be tested. When it finally was a surprise we had a woman responsible or involved with this crime with with new evidence? Detectives arrive at a new theory and started looking for a new suspect and everything changed from there. Assess Specht very close to home. We referred to her only as number five. Nobody would ever know who she was here again. Is Josh Michael Woods. After studying the murder order books. Detective Jim not all was convinced. Jerry Rasmusen was not killed by random murders but by someone who wanted it to look like a burglary. And what's more that. Killer was a woman that alters the entire course of what we have to do with a new perspective. Not all detective rob Bob and two more Amazon detective started working the Rasmusen investigation together. As if it were fresh off the blotter. We I started looking at the bite. Mark the Blunt force trauma in addition to the gunshots and the the setup of the apartment and it occurred to us that this might be a more personal murder situation for that type of violence to occur which meant taking a new and much tougher. Look at Sherry's his family and friends. you start inward outward. That's homicide one on one. You know we. We tend to harm the ones that we know. And you start asking who benefited or who gained from Sherry's death absolutely which is a question you ask in every homicide investigation absolutely wanted that person dead standard operating operating procedure. They didn't do that back in. Eighty six doesn't appear saucer so not. All in Bob flagged all the women mentioned over the course of the Rasmusen investigation nation and just like that. The list of persons of interest had shrunk to a number low enough to be counted on one hand. We had five women and that we felt were close to Sherry that would have had access to share an perhaps at least some of them may have had a motive the hammer the first two. The list Sheri's mom and her sister Theresa who were both more than happy to cooperate if it meant the case was really being reopened. It was my parents were so excited I mean I. Someone finally actively listening not surprisingly her sister's sister's and mother's DNA did not match that of Sherry's killer next on the list woman number three Sheri's friend and former Roommate Jane Goldberg. The detective came to our house. And my husband said Oh. She's at work and he said Oh I don't WanNa bother her there and my husband said no go. She'd love to see you. She wants to move this investigation along and he showed up at my work. Can I gave him a sample gene to was eliminated. which brought brought not all in Bob to woman number four someone Sherry sisters at mentioned back in Nineteen eighty-six Washer nurse that had worked for Sherry restless? She He'd been passed over for a promotion soon after Sherry said she started receiving obscene phone calls at work and later. Her car was keyed in the A hospital parking lot. There were things that were done at the hospital that actually caused Sherry to make a complaint which their internal security investigated indicated. There was a female profile. And now we had a motive workplace jealousy workplace issue look good suspect a viable option. Yesser not all in Butler and the nurse was now living near San Francisco so they asked for an assist from the local sheriff's department to do a surreptitious DNA DNA run for us which basically we used to call it a dumpster dive. They obtained some items from her trash. Sent him to the lab. For comparison breath. They waited a week for the results and it was not a match her so that left woman number five. An ex girlfriend of Sherry's husband. John John Rodman. None of the family suspicions about her were mentioned in the murder book. Jim Not all only learned of her. When he first called Cherry's parents appearance nails was upset with me and he was very animated? It was sort of like a detective. Where have you been for last two decades? I have explained this to your organization. I've explained this to your investigators and Why are we having this conversation now? And he laid out in alarming scenario alarming doing how he'd been explaining to the LAPD that he had a person of interest somebody that needed to be spoken to. We'll woman had been involved in a dating relationship with John. Forehead told us what he told the original detectives way in the beginning when the murder first occurred that John had an ex girlfriend that had issue with Sherry but he he didn't know her name so not all in. BUB contacted John Rotten to help fill in the blanks. Rawdon confirmed there was a woman he sort of dated while while Ucla and continue to see on and off until his marriage. The woman's name Stephanie. Lazarus it was a name that didn't mean anything into the detectives until rotten told them what Lazarus did for a living the last he knew she was employed by the Los Angeles Police Department. Did you check to see if she was still employed that night night and I turned to a moment. I'll never forget I turn it on the members of the unit and I said check name for me in the directory and he the Access the Lapd Directory and explain to me that she was currently a detective. Neal EP and you thought total. We're not in Kansas anymore. Change everything coming up. Never in my life that I think this would happen. A most unlikely suspect. Her reputation within department was stellar. Uh Stephanie Lazarus a well respected Los Angeles police officer for twenty. Six years was now at the center of a cold case murder investigation. You probably not become a homicide investigator because you wanted to investigate other police officers never in my life that I think this would happen. She was one of us that said detective. Not all on his team had a job Abdu beginning with digging into Lazarus's background she'd come on the force in the early nineteen eighties part of a wave of female officers it began joining the lapd after a court order. Required the department to hire more women. What was it like to be a woman on the LAPD BECO- oh well it was? It was not easy in nineteen ninety-three Nina Acosta graduated from the Los Angeles Police Academy and started it as a probationary officer at Hollywood station for me. It was a perfect kind of a job. But you couldn't go into it blindly. There was a culture that women didn't belong in law enforcement so for the most part you had to prove yourself over and over again every day every month to whoever you were working with so it wasn't easy But it was worth it. Hollywood station is where she got to know another female COP Stephanie. Lazarus Stephanie was a lot lot like me we like the Camaraderie We liked the everyday was different. Something New the excitement losers grew up in southern California the oldest of three children in nineteen seventy eight. She started college at Ucla where she joined the JV basketball team. Jon Rotten was a year ahead of her. They were door mates and became friends a lot of their friends at UCLA. Knew that Stephanie Wanted Senator relationship with John and that he didn't feel as strongly about her as she dead about him after graduation Lazarus made what was at the time an unusual unusual choice joining the lapd. So there's like a pattern of all women. Don't do that women. Don't play team. Sports seventies is that. That's what I'm GonNa do women. Don't become police officer. She could have chosen any courier. I mean there's an aspect of I'm gonNA prove you wrong. That seems seems to animate a lot of her life choices from adolescence into adulthood. She brought her basketball skills to the. Lapd Women's team would would you like on the basketball court competitive very competitive. She was aggressive. She was a very good athlete Somebody I admired. She was Very lean pretty tall and took her fitness very seriously according to her friend. Nina Lazarus always presented well in uniform. She was very sharpened appearance. She always looked perfect right down to her special bulletproof vest. The ones that were issued. Were pretty pretty much a Unisex and especially especially for women we look like a sack of potatoes and I'm so she. She bought her own best at her own expense. which at that time was a lot of money? Several hundred dollars and look like a million bucks. Men were interested but Nina says her friend didn't seem interested in dating guys on the force. She never really talked about her relationships and I didn't get the sense from her that her personal life was going with it. She wanted it to but nothing specific after a year at Hollywood Hollywood station. Lazarus moved to a less hectic division in the San Fernando Valley called Devonshire. That's where she was working when John Mary Sherry in November nineteen eighty five and when Sherry was murdered three months later in the years that followed Lazarus rose through the ranks at the LAPD from patrol officer to detective. She set her mind on doing something and and she achieved here she is alongside them him. Police Chief Daryl Gates in nineteen eighty nine while working on the anti-drug project dare the department They would send officers into schools to teach about anti-drug message so that's really sort of make sure the public face of the department in some places. Oh yeah her reputation within the department was stellar. She was chosen to work at internal affairs investigating other officers accused of wrongdoing or corruption. And in two thousand six Chemo cushy assignment when she was moved to the Lapd's art theft unit where she settled into the prime of her career. That's how rider later Matt Mikhalkov. I met detective. Stephanie Lazarus in the spring of two thousand eight I was working a writer for law and order on NBC. And and read that the LAPD had the only art theft detectives fulltime in the country. I sat down with Stephanie and her partner at the time I an interview them Stephanie. SDP H. L. Z. A. R. US. Stephanie Anthony was very cordial even helpful museum. Where the stolen nights you like? Five or six an armed Barbie takeover the LAPD has had on earth detail since the seventies eighties and it was one detective who sorta kept that unit going for a long time. And I think he Brought Stephanie N Sorta to groom her to take over from him when he retired so She was in a pretty pretty plump position. who personal personal life was in a great place to in Nineteen ninety-six Lazarus had married another? LAPD detective and they adopted a baby daughter both at home and on the job. Stephanie Lazarus his life had never seen better then came the winter of two thousand nine and unbeknownst to this high-achieving she was now the focus of a murdering instigation. One that would have to be done in secret. You don't get to choose your suspects you don't get to choose your victims but you can choose to solve the case and that's what we tried to do coming up was I'd say she took Sheri's has been still interested in Stephanie. Why did vacationed together? That's GonNa make you sort of lean forward a little bit dateline continues For more onto decades Stephanie Lazarus had worked her way up through the ranks of the. LAPD even made a name for herself a couple of times but by two thousand it was a nine when four. LAPD homicide detectives. Working in secret. Spoke of Lazarus. It was only in code. We made a determination along the other. We'd never say her name. We referred to her only as as number five number five number five. Nobody would ever know who she was. Because because Stephanie Lazarus was the fifth and by now only remaining person of interest in a homicide investigation conducted by members of her very own police department so it would protect the integrity of the investigation. And if she was not involved The nobody would ever know about it. The four detectives were mindful. Mindful that Lazarus had many friends on the force her husband also. LAPD detective worked in the same building. They did we were GONNA work behind in closed doors where we're going to work. After hours. We would never leave a paper trail of what we were doing. The new team in Van Nuys did something Sheri's family he said. The original detectives didn't do they listen to family and France. That's how the new detectives learned that before her death Sherry. I told her father she was being followed by a woman dressed as a boy she said she has is. I can see right through you. Sherry also told her father about a woman. John knew from college a woman she said had appeared uninvited inside inside her home. She was sitting at her dining room table and she heard a noise and she looked up and and and there was John's ex-girlfriend in the house standing there in the living room and she got up and she told her to get out and Sherry told her friend Jane how John's Ex had confronted her at the hospital where she worked she. You told me that that John's ex girlfriend had come to her office and said I just want you to know all that if this marriage doesn't work out I'm going to be waiting to pick up the pieces she said she was dressed. Provocatively like to show off her our favor. It seemed as if the only person who didn't have a story about John I'm rotten's ex-girlfriend was John Rotten. There was nothing in the police records from Nineteen eighty-six that indicated Cherry's husband at mentioned any suspicions about Stephanie. Lazarus detectives to the contrary ex-boyfriend or you an ex girlfriend he was specifically asked if share. You had any problem with an ex boyfriend. And or if she he had a problem with an ex girlfriend and he emphatically answered notable those questions and so in two thousand nine twenty three years after Sheri's murder murder. The detectives breathing new life into this case were eager to ask some old questions of John Rotten. They sat him down for an interview interview. This fish John told them how he lazarus met in the dorms at UCLA. Right now at first they were just friends. I don't remember US ever being fully intimate till after I graduated so it just sort of evolved twenty explained the relationship very clearly. It wasn't like we were good. Boy Friend girlfriend was just always understanding and we were friends. And that's where it was going to be today. We'd probably call it friends with benefits between us being a dating relationship but it was. It was stronger close rich next year now is part of the problem. Frankly no problem. He says became clear after his engagement to Sherry. That's when rutten says he got a call from a devastated. Stephanie Lazarus who insisted assistant on seeing him. It was very clear that she was trying to tell me. She really wanted to be not long long after Sherry came home from work upset and told him about Lazarus confronting her at the hospital. I was so in love with Sherry. You know she h she was the one very out of it that after their. You know there's GonNa be no contact with Stephanie. So then why didn't John Mention any the police in one thousand nine hundred six well. John told the new detectives he did mention it. They said Hey. We got a bite mark here and anatomy a female. You know I said you know I gotTa Talk to you about Stephanie. And I told him that she went to go see Sherry. Give Him Stephanie. Lazarus yeah I gave him the name. I said. She's a police officer. John said he didn't tell the original detectives about how sharing thought she was being followed. or how Lazarus had shown up at the House House for one simple reason. John said he didn't know those things that happened sharing sharing anything this with me. He said her dad never told him. Either nells new the things you told me you do. I WANNA go punch in the mouth and say why. Talk to me about this. This whole but Sherry sisters. Say It was John who had held back information. They say that when he spoke with detectives detectives in eighty six. He downplayed his relationship with Stephanie. He tried to protect himself by sort of diverting and the information about Stephanie wasn't disclosed disclosed one hundred percent. They say that if John had told the whole the truth from the beginning this case would've gone differently. You hold John Responsible for what he didn't do what he didn't absolutely absolutely he didn't behave as a husband that loved Sherry should have behaved the also wonder uh. Why didn't John Cut off his relationship with Stephanie? Lazarus he should have been frank with her instead of leading her on and kept putting fuel to the fire in his two thousand nine interview. John said he even followed up with police about Lazarus and there was one note in the case. Chronology made nearly two years after Sheri's murder John. Rotten called verified. Stephanie Lazarus P. P O was former girlfriend answered. This is not going anywhere. Maybe that's why just a couple of years. After after his wife's murder he reached out the Stephanie. Lazarus again even met up with her in Hawaii. Down Stephanie Lazarus and John Renton and I'm going on vacation together to Hawaii that's gotTa make you sort of sit up and lean forward a little bit. Yes yeah we wanted to ask John Rotten what he remembers telling the original investigators about his relationship with Stephanie Lazarus but he declined to speak with us in these two thousand nine interview with detectives Rutten Seen Certain Lazarus had nothing to do with Sheri's murder dollar. She did this or not last year his was. I'd say maybe John Rutten was right eight. Maybe Stephanie Lazarus had nothing to do with Sherry Rasmusen death and maybe he was wrong. There was one sure way to find out coming up Stephanie. Lazarus is asked to help interrogate a suspect back only to discover. She's the suspect. I'm a killer. I mean. Come on if you have high cholesterol you're not alone. It affects more than one hundred million Americans but while it may be common it can be very serious serious. It's a major risk factor for heart disease the number one cause of death in the US well healthy lifestyle. Choices can help to manage high cholesterol. That's often not enough you. You may have heard of statins a type of medication. That's proven to be both safe and effective in the treatment of high cholesterol there are multiple STATIN options available. And it's important to know that they're not all the same so if you have high cholesterol and are experiencing any challenges with your medication. Talk to your doctor because there may be another one that is more right for. Are you check out. Take cholesterol to heart. Dot Com a great educational resource from the folks at COA pharmaceuticals. That helps make all of this easy to understand. As with all medications side effects can occur with statin. Use If you have specific questions or concerns about taking your statton remember that your doctor is always the best source for information mation answers checkout cholesterol to heart dot com and talk to your doctor about finding the right. Staten for you. The woman who killed Sherry Rasmusen in one thousand nine hundred six and thankfully left a little bit of herself behind in a bite mark on the victim. Detectives had a DNA profile of the killer and now they had a prime suspect their own colleague at the Lapd Stephanie Lazarus would her DNA match the sample kept on ice. All those years ears in late May two thousand nine a specialized. LAPD surveillance unit was sent to watch Lazarus's every move in order to collect some discarded. The way I said this is the last-ditch we have exhausted every other lead every other suspect. The surveillance surveillance team followed. Lazarus enter daughter to a costco where she ordered a soft drink and they watched drink it. watched her walk over and throw the Empty Cup in a garbage. Can't they recovered that cup and Straw off that trash went to the DNA lab for comparison with the swamp from Sheri's arm arm to DNA samples separated by twenty three years. If they were a match it could mean solving a cold case murder. If not the case would likely go back to collecting dust on a shelf. forty-eight hours after the samples went out for testing detective. Rob Bob Cell Phone rang and he said just to let you know it's a match and just like that you guys all the twenty three year old murder. Yeah kind of hard to believe. The next step was to interview. Stephanie Lazarus she had no idea she was even under investigation and she still had her badge and gun which made the prospect of questioning her. A little nerve wracking. You'd be have three detectives with each with a gun. And the the the potential for disaster was very high and they didn't want it to end in someone being shot. Deputy District Attorney Shannon in presby joined the investigation wants the DNA results on Lazarus came back so they use this ruse. They essentially played on her vanity. They said Hey we've got this guy. Were investigating them and he says he knows something about art theft but we don't know anything about art theft. Will you come down and help us. And she said sure and always down in jail division a place where firearms are not allowed unarmed and unsuspecting. Stephanie Lazarus didn't realize she was being recorded by camera hidden in a briefcase bone numerous Stephanie. Benton know that they had already put all the pieces together to me. No she is dead to rights before she even walked in. The detectives told Lazarus. Her name had come up in connection with a case involving someone from her past. Jon Gruden Johnny Rotten run rugby. I went to school with serving your relationship ship or anything that developed between you guys he dated. You know I mean it wasn't a whole about relating to and his wife for. How long did you guys date? Why are you? This is something I mean. I was about art. Can I don't understand why you're talking about some guy dated a million years ago. You know what happened to his wife. I know she got that killed. Stephanie Lazarus seemed uncomfortable and vague in her answers especially when detectives asked about Sherry Rasmusen. Thank Shelly Sherry. I don't you know like I said it's been so many years at first. Lazarus seem to have trouble remembering whether she never met or spoken with Sherry. I may have you know. I may have talk to her if she did talk to her. She said that meeting might have taken place at a hospital. I think she will get a hospital somewhere and yeah I may. You've met her at a hospital. I may talk to her once or twice. Why speak with Sherry? Lazarus said it could have been to tell Sherry. John I may have gone say. Hey you know what he knows. What if he beating new bothering me And so I'm thinking give we had a conversation about that One or two. Maybe you could have been three. She made admissions having to do with the meeting eating at the hospital. which up until that time was really truly it was hearsay and now? You Have Stephanie. Actually admitting yeah I did go see her boss. And so you've got admissions. That really advanced. The case Lazarus had now placed herself at the the hospital with Sherry as many as three times confirming the story Sherry had told her friend Jane and she didn't rule out having been to the CONDO. We either I don't think I don't i. Don't they know oh party. While Lazarus admitted to meeting being with Sherry or maybe meeting with her she somehow couldn't say whether sings at gotten fight with her father. Did you ever do get out with her. I don't think so. I mean you remember that right. That would be pretty. I would think so most of us can remember without not much difficulty. The number of fistfights. We've had over the course of our lives. Not So easy for Stephanie. Lazarus doesn't sound familiar. You mean would seem so. I followed there so so get getting jump single key. I fought with her so I must kill them and I mean come on about forty five minutes into the interview it seemed reality was sinking him as a criminal suspect. Then you know I. I got a problem with with that now. You're accusing me of this. Is that what you're saying coming up closing in. But why so many missteps was plays the everybody's favourite conspiracy theory that cops cover for other hubs no matter what your when dateline continues and we're trying to what happened. LAPD detective Stephanie. Stephanie Lazarus had been grilled for more than an hour by members of her own department. I don't even know that I live. It looked to us like she thought she was going to be able to talk her way out of that interview. At some point Lazarus seemed to realize all that talking wasn't knocking Huntington. I'd probably talk to lawyer. I 'cause I know how stuff works. Okay don't get your. I have been doing this long time. But she elects to end the interview and stand up and walk out and so once she walked out. She was greeted by other members of the Los Angeles Police Department who plays eastern handcuffs. Brought her back in crazy she was read her rights and she declined to talk from that point on. Okay he he doesn't have the right to remain silent understand. The arrest came as welcome news to the Rasmussens was joyous day. There were other emotions as well now for more than two decades. Sheri's family had harbored suspicions about the. LAPD did you police. We're GONNA solve this no no. You had no confidence in them. Right from the beginning because you didn't buy the burglaries earlier because they didn't seem to be listening to you. I came to the conclusion in my life that it was never going to be solved. They cared to solve it. They become convinced that detectives back in eighty six were set on proving that Burglars Killed Sharing Sharing while ignoring evidence and witnesses. That might lead elsewhere. You lived in that Condo for couple of years with Sherry and you knew her and you knew her relationship with John. You'd seen it begin. You knew that neighborhood and what it was like to live there. How long until police came to speak with you? Never they never did. They never never never. I kept waiting. I kept thinking well. They'll do their job you know they're working on this really really back. Then Sheri's family says it was impossible to tell my mom had Wow the mayor's business card that he had given her and said call anytime and we'll update. My Mom wore. That card is frayed. She's handled handled it so many times calling and getting no information cure is dead. Nells told me that. Detectives ignored his tips from day. One I I told the place that they should look into John's ex girlfriend. Did you tell the detectives the John's ex girlfriend was a member of the LAPD. That's How I identified her? I said John ex-girlfriend that's an lapd. You didn't know that. I did nor name. And they said what the trouble with us. WHO's you've been watching too much? TV Remember John Rotten also said he told detective mayor his ex girlfriend. Stephanie Lazarus was with the LAPD kind kind of that as a detective that should like. Make your ears perk up. If you're investigating this case I'm thinking you WanNa talk with Stephanie. Lazarus one one because she's on your job and carrying the same bed you are and you can say. Hey you know this Guy John Rotten. What do you know about him when you know about the two of them and that marriage and you know now how did they get along and also like what was your relationship with them? Cracked people get tunnel vision of course even seasoned detectives -tective can get so hung up on one theory that they ignore others. Father believed something else was going on. Why do you think it was the detectives? Detectives didn't look at John's ex girlfriend. I think it was because she was a police off service. Why can't that just be sloppy? Police work why does that have to be a cover up why I can't that be just sort of tunnel vision and a rush to judgment. They're more intelligent than that. You GotTa give them more credit than that. Well maybe not the very first interview he conducted with John Rotten suggests detective. Lyle mayor was already convinced. Burglars Killed Charing Mayor Even ensured that theory with John the not of the murder. I believe your house was burglarized today for ten remember. This is long before before there was any talk of John's ex girlfriend. There's a couple of possibilities here. Matinee Gough author of the book. The Lazarus files took a hard look at the investigation. He says there's no simple explanation for what went wrong at one. End of the spectrum is incompetence. It's and the other end of the spectrum is is will cover up right so it's somewhere along this spectrum. Does that makes sense to you. That they would have started instantly covering up or deliberately looking away from somebody who they only knew as a fellow member of Eh you just said covering up or deliberately looking away covering up makes it sound like there's something active is required of those detectives to cover. There's something up cover up. Doesn't require anything. Active a cover up requires refusing to investigate. What is obvious? Es You have a responsibility to investigate while mayor did not respond to our request for an interview. He has previously denied that there was any cover up and says the Rasmusen family never asked him to investigate. John's ex girlfriend cliff shepherd the cold case detective. Who took took over the investigation in two thousand five and who also pursued the burglary theory completely rejects the idea that there was a cover-up passive breath or otherwise? Is there any way you would have looked away from a murder case involving a fellow police officer know why. What motivation relation? Well this place to everybody's favourite conspiracy theory that cops cover for other cops no matter what you're out of your mind shepherd it says if he really wanted to engage in thorough cover-up he could have just dumped the murder books and stopped working on the case. That would have not been a problem. It just don't include it in the case away. Throw it in the trash Take it with me. Throw down the freeway shepherd concedes. He does have second thoughts. What's about how he investigated the Rasmusen case? Oh I do lots of regrets. I suspect had I talked to John Rutten again. He would have told me about his relationship. Relationship with Stephanie. Lazarus officially the. LAPD declined our request for comment on this case. It looked like they had worked the case hard but in the wrong direction prosecutor Shannon presby acknowledges there may have been mistakes in Nineteen eighty-six Buddy says once he not all I'm Bob saw all the evidence pointing to Stephanie. Lazarus they followed it regardless of the badge she wore. Our focus was the evidence who does that show was the killer and trying to bring that killer to justice even if it meant putting a cop on trial for murder coming up. Sheri's husband makes a painful admission. I didn't know that until the trial through. You're not that charitable that hurt and February sixteen two thousand twelve more than a quarter century after Sherri Rasmussen's is murder the trial of Stephanie Lazarus began. The prosecution made an overwhelming case. The day Sherry Rasmusen was murdered. Stephanie Lazarus was off work and had no alibi Lazarus's DNA was in the bite. Mark on Sherry's are the bullets that killed Sherry. Were the type abused by LAPD officers at the time and Lazarus reported her guns stolen shortly after the murder. It's that combination nation of all the evidence together. And who does that point too. So we have only one person in the world basically that we were able to determine had any motive to to harm Sherri Rasmussen. And that was Stephanie Lazarus. There was evidence of that motive. Written in Lazarus's vary on hand. When police searched her home home? They found a six hundred page journal. Buried deep in the mundane details of her early years on the force there were some telling references is to John. Rotten like this passage from eight months before the murder. I really didn't feel like working. I found out that John is getting married. I was very depressed. This is very bad. Lie concentration was negative Tan. We knew from her journal. That she was fixated on John that she wanted wanted. John also found during the search of Lazarus's house this photo she took in college of a sleeping John. Rotten the writing on the back doc reads I snuck in at one. Am and to the picture. Lazarus held out of this photo for more than thirty years. The prosecution called called the focus of her affection to the witness. Stand twenty six years after his wife. Sheri's murder John Rutten told the jury sharing came to him. mm-hmm after Lazarus confronted her hospital. And then he admitted there was. Something else when Lazarus call him devastated about the engagement government. He went to her place. John said all the witness stand that they end up having sex that night. That's why sure he was so upset. After the hospital visit Lazarus told her she and John had sex so he truthfully Lee said I told her yes. I had slept with Lazarus after we got engaged. It was a horrible mistake. I love you Sherry. Don't love Lazarus. Please don't let that mistake of mind. Derail our plans. I want to go forward with our marriage and they talked basically all night long and Sherry forgave him. It was all painful for Sherry sisters to hear a year. I didn't know that until the trial and I heard that. Come out of his mouth you want somebody to go to way you sleep with them really defense. Yep you're not that charitable that hurt. You've Lazarus did kill Sherry though. She never did claim her prize. John Rotten after the murder. The prosecutor told the jury that didn't mean Lazarus stop thinking about jaw a search warrant of her home and devices told that story and we found that she was doing internet searches for John. Rutten even ten fifteen years later. Stephanie Lazarus did not testify at her trial nope we may never know. Exactly what sequence of events led the violence on that particular February Day. Maybe Lazarus was sneaking into the CONDO. thinking she'd be alone and was surprised to find Sherry there or maybe Lazarus plan to kidnap Sherry. That would explain the rope found at the scene. Jury didn't need to answer those questions. They only needed to answer one then. Stephanie Lazarus Kill Sherri Rasmussen. Didn't take them long to the side. We the jury in above entitled Action. Find The defendant Stephanie. Eileen Lazarus Chris guilty of the crime of murder of Sherri Rasmussen W Lazarus was sentenced to twenty seven years to life. John Rotten spoke at the sentencing. A hearing and the fact that Sherry's death occurred because she met and married me brings me to my knees thirty three years. After Sherry's death the the questions remain and so does the pain Ingram along this tour I am. I'm angry read that they didn't treat people better that they didn't listen to us. The other side of that is God. Waited long enough for us is to really be able to prove that she did it and then put her in prison away from those people that she loves. Although she's still got a better deal than Sherry dead in fact act. It's a better deal than you might have expected because of her lengthy service to the LAPD. Stephanie Lazarus continues to receive her department pension attention. Even though she's locked up it comes to just under seventy two thousand dollars a year Sherry Sisters easters focus on keeping her memory alive. I see it in my daughters and I see it in my grandkids. She sure yes. It gives you comfort sort to know that twos carrying on. She's a dedicated nurse. She cared for people tape leader. She she was such a people person in was so kind. I think that's a big part of my life and my family's life trying to help others and be there for them. Sweden decades after that last Christmas baby. Rachel still feels are Anson brace and always felt that. She's washing watching over us that you can talk to her whenever she is there with. You loves you. And that's all for this edition of Dateline. We'll see you again next Friday at ten nine central and of course I'll see you each weeknight for NBC nightly Lee News. I'm Lester Holt for all of us at N._B._C.. News good night.

John Mary Sherry Linda Sheri murder Sherry Rasmusen John John Sherry John Sherry burglary Sherry Los Angeles Police Department Stephanie Lazarus John Rotten Los Angeles Jerry Rasmusen Stephanie Jim Goldberg John Rutten Cherry Raza John's Sherry officer Mark Bite Swab
Unbelievable

Pop Culturing

1:12:23 hr | 1 year ago

Unbelievable

"My name's Todd Mrs Campaign going back to another episode of Pop culturing where we talk about pop culture we talk about movies. TV shows we talk about music difficult and uncomfortable wording I would say sobering yeah horrifying yeah sad signed this And they called it I think they called I can't remember what they called it but just go into just go into this show surprise for writing about this story they wrote it for Propublica and the Marshall Project and it was called an unbelievable story of Rape they in the store they connected Murray's case which is the kind of the heart of this show with the investigation of rapist by two right and I were able to sit down and watch every single episode altogether and it was a very rewarding experience I agree complicated Yes it is complicated and just to kind of give you a little background about it so real quick yes so if somebody hasn't seen it had all the elements that are meaningful to me in regards to watching television show right and so taught this is less of movie fiction that you WanNa be excited to the end you and more about a telling a true story if you guys are like big little lies to but more like the first season you know what I mean and this This show called unbelievable came out on Netflix about a week and a half ago go and literally the day it came out I was on twitter and everyone was tweeting about it and then I read what it was about and detectives to female detective so in the story that they wrote for Propublica they they interwoven just like they did for the TV show and then the it's a good one even though we already did it's next week but two weeks sweetie two weeks but we had to do this series because every once in a while led by the same people who wrote the article and titled It a false report I guess it's being republished is unbelievable and they expanded the story so the reason why I'm saying this is he's comes along and it's very rare I would say the last time that I felt like a series was really impacting was stranger things because allies big little lies yeah sense that article came out the the story the story has been retold twice once on this American Life and if you listen to this American life on podcast you nhs in it that can be very uncomfortable and can bring back a lot for people but there's also a sense of that it's being handled respectfully when you're watching Marie story not always but there's a sense of hopefulness in it that I think is worth is heavy really heavy yes so trigger warnings maybe I think that from what I've heard especially if you're choosing to watch it I know that a lot of sexual assault survivors were very triggered by it but not triggered how do I say this yes triggered especially the first episode and there's many c okay because this was originally the story was told by two writers T Christian Miller and Karen Armstrong in two thousand sixteen they wanna put they only like what is it ten episodes todd that they keep up there at a time yeah they're they're not easy to go back in the archives they're not but if you go to their website you can in the show they probably shouldn't listen to this podcast well I think it's a true story story but if you want to enjoy it without spoiling how it goes a show notes Olympics yes I listened to the first three episodes of it and it has the real people in it to a whole series on this America's Okay and then they also book was created So yes trigger warning okay all right so why don't you just play that opening all right do you want to set it up or no no okay so let's start to be goal isn't go watch the eight episodes and then come back and I'm a little torn about that and this is why all right let me explain this part and I'm a little torn about saying this is like all for drama just about this Netflix series correct I knew this story already I knew what happened I knew who was in it before I even watched it I knew how it was going to lay out and it didn't to keep it from being really incredibly moving and so I just wanted to say that I and the other thing is there's pro the content the watching of it and again everyone has to decide for themselves I mean we recommend things but then if you go into your like this is more pain enjoyment absolutely jump out but I wanted to go home and they just kept asking the same question over and over again how come your story doesn't add up how can people don't believe you todd where you're like part of holding your attention is being unsure about how it unfolds I get it and maybe watch it first but to me I rarely for the assault she told me everything that happened. Honey you need to be more specific this is hard but I need to ask you some questions about what happened shore Hersher and the reason why it's the hardest one to watch is it is it opens with this girl Marie who's the actress who plays her Caitlyn Denver I think when the police officer comes to ask her her story he basically like half kneels down is not there's nothing very soothing about the situation into the first one and I would say everything in that trailer is from episode one wouldn't you say yes if you had to choose out of these eight episodes the hardest one to watch is the first one four and it's very empty empty shallow what's the word just business like even though somebody his her name she was in the movie book Smart She is amazing seriously if like the three women who like lead this show don't get that there's not a lot of comfort in the moment for somebody who's just been victimized in such a way very litigious problem is as after she cites this whole story again which is really traumatic so it's like putting her through the trauma again then the detectives arrived and they say tell us the story again and she's like again which happens all the time there's a lot of like not there's not thoughtfulness about pretty positive that it happened pretty positive or positive all right so that's just a real clip from one at three or four trailers so that's just about thirty six after before he saw episode two was that when I think most people who see episode one including myself you look at it and you're like that's really the way things are done I was ed nominations but we'll get into that leader so it opens with her sitting on the floor covered in a blanket and the police have been called because she talking about when someone is just experienced a trauma their memory is not clear this is a something that people don't understand unless aid gene but when I was watching the toddlers probably annoying because I was pointing out a lot of things that are difficult right off the bat number one that feel he asks her to share everything that happened and he doesn't really take notes about it you know there's not a lot of there is she has been raped and so it starts out with her having to tell a police officer her story and I'm going to get I'm not going to do this with every single scene experienced trauma or be they'd been educated or work with people who have experienced a trauma or they've read enough to understand that this happens when you're experienced all the time most all the time I I've worked with sexual assault survivors for the majority of my career I've worked in a hospital and you see how this is the mind and body that keep us safe in that moment for example in this experience that Marie had she actually disagree playing that scene where she's happy at the beach yes and I didn't know that until you just said that just now and I also because I re watched this in preparation for this experience for time the day that she was raped and let me tell you everybody this is going to be a team throughout this whole show and everything that todd the How this story is told on film so beautifully done because they actually said the director was like how do we get into her mind and associated in the wallet was happening which is something she was able to learn how to do as a she was raised in the foster care system and abuse and abused in a lot of things assaulted and that's what children do they pull themselves out of the situation mentally and it is a protection of our brain so we don't have to go through the maybe we should have her tell this story once get all the information to happen so the whatever the beat cop she says the be cut I than the detective comes in and then Rama in the moment the unfortunate part though is part of our body and mind did go through the trauma so we still have to deal with it eventually but in that moment we can only take so much you see like these snapshots of her playing in the ocean because that's where she's allowing her mind to go so this is a real thing we'll do it because I always wondered why they kept structure that's put into place and it becomes very normalized to us where we we look at that structure and we're like what else did we want him to do right what else is there that you could do then so in this moment when Marie is being raped she's able to disassociate thus can you understand why when someone is questioning you about what did he say what did he do happen to her so she was able to I think she calls it turning off a switch you which a lot of people do where she was able to disassociate pull away from what was happening to her and in experiencing a trauma it be rape or someone is holding you up or mugging you or carjacking you or your house has been broken into there is a lot of things that happen in show everyone that she's disassociating because that's easy to do when you're reading the story and the PROPUBLICA article 'cause she can say I detached from the experience but that's what she did I looked no I don't know and if you're being traumatized at the moment God only knows what you're recognizing what you're not recognizing and I love that you said it's different for everybody because one of the things after the police station the detective the exact same question a third time and then last night lastly but then she has to write everything down she has still refused to relive is that they the details get very confusing like what color is did he have do you really think I'm paying attention to what looks at a picture of herself? She remembers herself happy in the beach this is what I worked with a lot of children unfortunately are used to who were molested when they were young or or you know sex I was just assaulted they're acting as if the writing a parking ticket and that's it is that there is a this is just part of the job thing and this is what todd and I were able to talk about are- need to know I just WanNa go once more sorry we need it for Eric Berry told you everything and sure I don't it's confusing around understanding trauma and understanding what trauma looks like in the moment a week later a year later like it's not simply who had to deal with Harvey Weinstein and their stories and how it went down is so similar there's just so much in the ethers right now show I notice that while she was being assaulted I don't know if I should say assaulted or raped like assaulted is too soft a word she washes being raped she we who were the ones who broke the story about Harvey Weinstein in Two Thousand Sixteen and it is all about their experiences with talking to sexual assault survivors by humanize him and he you know if we become like friends in the moment I'm putting then in air quotes and this is I actually have in front of me at the very same time the she becomes hyper what time was it twelve thirty two what color weather is is blue because she became very laser focused you because she realized that too Sir God and this happened for me I do try men's group and we did a virtual meeting which means we all are looking at each other on a zoom call and my friend who set up the call yes it is true this is for for us guys I feel like women are like Yup Yup and guys including myself like all the details one thing I I think we've probably all know is that everybody deals with trauma differently and the way a lot of people deal with trauma revive she had to pay close attention to him and she had to talk to him and she had to act like they were friends and this is what a lot of rape survivors due to is a lot of guys thinking that Oh this is by women for women about rape I don't need to watch this I don't need to hear about it I don't need to see anything and the actual vision series through the eyes of the victims rather than the perpetrator so to that end I guess a public service announcement I could see the topic of the discussion was reading Sonoma Miller's letter that she wrote to Brock Turner Who's the Stanford swimmer listening to this instead of watching the game on Thursday night watch this and talk to your buddies about it because it's absolutely mystic and unfortunately and this is I'm going to you know you can see the movie but this this show this Netflix series was written by women and it was directed by a woman and the stars are all women so what we're finally seeing is a movie or the next she wasn't a she wasn't there all of it and I mean intellectually life you would think that like you would have be hyper conscious who was convicted of three felonies and the judge gave brock three months six months and he was out in three months so it was a really sobering experience for me too read this as the father of three daughters it was sobering experience for me to be on the call with these ten other men who were experiencing a lot of the same things I am and unquestioned in such a way that isn't very comforting to her and doesn't allow her to remember everything that happened or say it in a coherent way ah she saw a picture of you know four by six picture of herself at the beach and I didn't pick that up the first viewing and they're like oh that's where she got that from so this is why the that they demonstrated to us as where Marie associated and you know had to kind of bring herself back together the the next victim that were introduced to an episode two the thing I said to todd after that one is that because I've worked with so many women who've been assaulted is that I know that usually the questioning by the police officers this show unbelievable is on the air a new book came out and it came out last week I I think I got it the day it came out and it's by Jodi Kantor and meg meg trauma informed means understanding what this person in front of you is actually going through and that sometimes they're going to get mentally sidetracked sometimes they are gonNA shut down sometimes they may and your sons and your sons teen age appropriate because it's Ta you know it's explicit heavy or guys if I it's just for me it's in the air and I just hope that the women that are listening to this please invite your partners if your partner happens to be a husband that because it gives me an opportunity to say the man who sexually assaulted her because all we do is say she's a victim and he's a Stanford swimmer and it's the man who act as if this is in Detroit to humanize day show knows her perpetrator exactly because they're like this is the only way I I will survive it if it who served a man who's sexually assaulted her yes the man who sexually edges that's a quick way so people can recognize who were talking and I appreciate you and I was like Whoa it was so obviously fully broken we're like let's get in the car I was like how you doing I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine we get in the car either get out of a situation or get into a place where we can actually help ourselves so this is like a same as the example that I was giving before about discipline she didn't have any emotion she didn't cry she didn't scream and she didn't really even feel the pain until forty five minutes later till you got there author whom she came in walked in her hand was completely detached from her arm hanging off her arm and she said mom I think I did something the story I mean everything that happens to Marie basically just to summarize so we can you guys can see the difference is not only is Marie one is I assaulted when someone first experiences something that traumatic they are not going to be sobbing now here's the thing if they are even if it's well intended it's not always trauma informed and it's not always that empathetic trauma informed I mean you're explaining that right but that means the reason I'm pointing that out that's what our body and our mind does to us it's called shock and it allows us to be able to get our act together not even have any emotion sometimes their face does not match what's going on in which we can all understand this okay if in again trauma essential and I feel like we should I don't know if you're done with the first episode but I feel like we should roll into the difference between the way the two different sets of detectives talk about it but go ahead me something ten years later so they do have tears because it's coming up as an old memory but in the moment is a very different experience so she not being trauma informed as deeper than this experience that I'm going to share but it can give us a glimpse when my daughter broke her wrist several years back I was in the that this happened to Marie because Marie is often attention seeking and she's making an assumption that Marie is being attention seeking because Marie didn't cry and Marie to get sheets because they obviously the police had to take all of her bedsheets and everything because of what happened to her and Marie is kind of like you know running so well I was watching that scene one hundred percent understanding why she would want her old sheets she wants things to go back to normal and this foster mother not being a typical person she's shown some behaviors where she wants attention as most teenagers do at one time or another in their lives so the store and she's really focused on getting a certain set of sheets that she wants because they're the sheets she had before and she's mad that they're not there and this foster mother it is they basically decide that her story is not an I'm putting this in air quotes holding up and they questioned her as if she is the perpetrator it's like that's how they're supposed to go they got us these difficult questions they gotta say that you're going to go to the hospital and get all these horrifying tests that they have to do I mean there's not a lot of understanding it's not a trauma informed inquiry that way because when I first saw first episode on like Oh yeah that looks like that's the way the investigations go Kohler is this man has like how am I supposed to remember that and that's even an everyday laying a everyday occurrence welcome past the street like Oh did you notice what color is were episode one but basically they start to get different information because her foster mother's especially one of 'em Judith Judith Judith thinks it's weird shares her story she's kind of like you know they're asking her a lot of questions it's not a very empathetic questioning detached then I'm jumping ahead INDAC- we've seen where when you get questioned in such a way where you start to change your story worth and in the central park five you know when they see us so the story gets turned around marinas told to recant because then she starts thinking maybe she dreamed it and this we've seen this in like making a murderer they don't like basically put play horrible theme music may come in they're trying to make everyone human but the other foster mother takes her shopping here's the thing most of the women that I talked to at least now used to in the hospital talk to people in the moment but now they're telling where basically they're they're saying to you you can leave if you tell us this so Marie just wanted to get out of there and this is the last thing uh-huh that's somehow wanting the same sheets is indicative that it didn't really happen this is all crap this is in this is what happens so final part of episode one well I absolutely you know what there's no way we're going to go back and forth between episode one and all the rest of the episodes because what happened episode one is the center of the asssociation our body and mind loves US so much they won't let us feel all that pain at wants and I'm saying they like their different entities I'm just trying to make so win that's fine too that's not a I'm not saying that there's only one way that it's going to look what I'm saying is it's okay if they're not I can't think of the other foster mother who the both of these women love her by the way the one thing they do very well in this show is they don't even though there are people that you're so frustrated with they don't vilify is not trusting of authority figures because of her history and that is where this whole story began so okay all right so episode two so episode to its so move over you guys probably already know this because you see in the series but now we're in Colorado another person has been victimized the exact same way so there's a different the female detective that is interviewing the victim and these are just a few clips and the idea is to notice the difference between what you heard in that trailer dance with being able to shut off her emotions and she turns them off do you remember the scene She's crying and then all of a sudden you hear the music on and she just turns off her emotions is annoyed by that she because she why would she want the same sheets if she was attacked in those sheets and see this is where we start to get in our own head and we think we understand other people's we talk about Netflix series we are today so for those of you guys were hoping to hear about saint almost fire we push that back a few a few weeks Matej I'm fine let me know if that decision changes sometimes pain can sneak up on you right here and say to close out episode one so todd moved up so to she does the flipping the switch where she decides she has great expense we are originally played Marie questioned versus how this girl question injured physically would you like to see a paramedic now they she's like can I go now so they think oh see she really did lie where really what she did she wants to get out of dodge he wants to get out of there because she does not trust that she's not trust them she his remember they do the flashbacks of when she like is the birthday k. all that yes and she's dancing at the Party must mean that she was lying sweetie here's the other ones refer you right with you would like to ask you some questions Alf and this detective notices that and walks over to her and starts this conversation and as you can tell just by her what do you WanNa say anything about that sweetie all I'll say is just kind of setting the tone just the fact that this girl who has been victimized is kind of standing alone by her so busy out here would you be comfortable talking in my car yeah must be okay good that's me right here all right so we're going to fast forward ask you so many questions but there's a reason for it and what she's able to do is explain why she's doing what she's doing and also checks in with her about how she has that's when people tend to remember the most and so she lets her know so that's why I'm asking you now because it can feel really intrusive right after you've been victimized to have somebody I wanNA talk to you about physical evidence every rate has three crime scenes the location of the assault thorough exam of your body but would you be comfortable with me trying to collect DNA evidence from your face now it connects connects with her in a way like it's not just about me trying to get information I am trying to see you as a human asks about her boyfriend detectives in episode one is the fact that neither of those detectives had had training in trauma don't being trauma informed and only one the body of the attacker and the body of the victim each of them can offer up important information now the hospital will do this is very helpful amber the level of detail you're able to remember gives me a lot to work with thank you for that didn't get to hear this clip but she says to her right when they get in the car we have found that we need to have this conversation right away after the trauma I am I figured it mattered you're right it does so she has absorbing her face but just the way that she presents that you're about to get examined at the hospital compared to the first episode wing gives her like there's a moment where you know amber in this scene actually talks about Chicago and that's her home and the detective says while do you miss home even though we told you not to I mean of course do you know roughly what time it was twelve thirty two assaults prior to this one with Marie so he didn't have a lot of experience now I'm not letting them off the hook I'm just saying that's very common that we think you know these these guys were homicide detectives and they get moved into this division with rape figuring it's the same it's not and this woman this detective has a lot of experience with of them he had been like on the sexual assault unit for like he's he had only prosecuted or what would you call it like investigated too sexual so it's night and day that's all well she explains to her why it's necessary why why do we do this she also says tour you guys being and making sure she's feeling okay and let me say one more thing as you're getting to the next part John One thing that makes it a little easier to not vilify the the second episode a try so you can empathize and understand something that we were never taught and see the difference and what a difference it makes or that person it's just like todd said it's such a stark contrast do you want to move on from up so to well what else say in episode two sexual assault and if I could snap my fingers and have anybody watch this it would be Detectives who do this when they get in her car she's taking amber to the hospital and there is this thing that she has on her dash that says here I am do you remember that it was Bible verse because She's a very Christian woman and it's this Bible verse that she loves about you know who will be the protectors and who will show up every night she's so good acting wise want her on your team you do and one of my favorite parts that we didn't pull up is in you know first of all men should see the first episode the first twenty minutes of the second episode and if you don't like it after that don't do it but just the first episode and and the first twenty minutes we go now she's in the car no that's everything once he realized he was gone what did you do then one is that I'm first of all because we get introduced to this detective played by I think her name is merit weaver it's w. e. v. e. r. Iraq's but she's so good I said too tight as we were kind of watching a scene to get ready for the show I'm like I miss her I miss seeing her and her belief system and why she believes you know why she does what she does it's I really liked that moment there's a lot of moments of her for people in need and so she she has the quote on her dash that says here I am you know I will show up so it gives you a sense of understanding about her a little bit of a detour but there's another part in episode four we wanted to play and there is this young man who they think might know something about in the car by herself that gives you remember that I think episode by when she's singing in the car I loved that humanizer and then how she stops he is doing things wrong of course doesn't have anything to do with this rape so basically there is a kid from the college who comes in and says I saw this flyer about women drunk take them into the bedroom and have sex with them and then a few minutes later the same detective she says so all of these crimes these these these rapes that have been occurring and then this is what happens one more thing before todd places Sir and I I I'm not sure if it's pronounce weather or weaver on but she's won emmys already todd nurse Jackie and I never watched that somebody raping women and he said and I think I know who's doing it and she says and he says this guy from our school we have watched him clip is that he does have a previous record of a woman accusing him of rape and she ends up deciding not to press this rape and she's questioning turns out he has nothing to do with that but he's just like this I don't know well we need to set it up even more tell me about you know more about you seeing him rape women and this kid's like no no I didn't say rape she goes win you take a woman and get her drunk doc and take advantage of her while she's unconscious that is rape and even for that moment there's a lot of teaching in this in this series where are you starting to realize deep brings up or he brings up that there was a history with him being charged Ardi know that this kid from school does not make the best choices with women okay he's been assaulting them so then they bring him in to see if he's connected detective divall so what's this about abruptly how you can go from like you're having joy and you're like remembering a good thing and then you get back into the moment of course you saw the Mazda exactly it was is amazing so this is what consent means if you didn't know already so this guy this kid really thinks it's his it I don't know if his buddy but this kid he knows from school so we what was wrong about her it's all in there we hooked up the one time and when she really Loyd which was what just you know getting the wrong girl came in to turn this kid in because they knew that he had a history with assaulting women getting them hammered and assaulting them and it was kind of a known thing and so lessens to that kid yes that's the bystander moment exactly somebody coming in and saying we know a guy who does this look I didn't do anything anybody and that's not me saying that's you guys golden pd not really what the department said was that it could much in there so much so let's start with the fact that the reason I wanted to give you the background the fact that another kid someone he knew a guy opposite of what you're used to hearing interrogators or inquiries detective because it's usually like two guys drinking coffee good cop bad cop ones he's asking questions and instead of agreeing with him or like allowing him to say something without it being questioned like you know that's is that was all it was going to be just I'd say she just kind of went off often what way there's status to being victim which is bullshit because there are real victims out there and when you go around saying charges and so in this discussion that they're having what is what do you call this not investigate when someone this question inquiry inquiry she off what other accusations there been against you none why did somebody say something about what 'cause that thing sophomore year got resolved what thing that the accused of all kinds of crazy stuff like what else you made you said all kinds of crazy with an I and I don't even like that word sexual assault survivors I have worked with an all I know that they carry around is pain fear you have been victimized when you have and it just makes it harder for those people who really do need out then guys like me normal guys end up getting girl made up about me you can see God totally cleared up I was really grateful to you guys for seeing you for whatever made stuff up happens all the time now girls making all these claims it's a thing including their partner including their children this is not something people want as a status this is one of the worst things that could ever happen to a woman and pursue the case because the victim didn't want to press charges because it was bullshit do I need to be here all right there's so much the you know again we always have to say this todd and I do a lot of shows about send parenting radio a lot of shows about assault and you know this crime say for anybody who believes that who really walks around believing that their status and being a victim I can't tell you how many sexual assault victims I have worked is somewhere between what they say now to eight percent that is no different than somebody who walks into report their car being stolen so important we have to start breaking down these belief systems that are so ingrained in maybe taught to us through stories and through the media and start okay and the part that there's so many pieces to that drives me crazy but the part that just makes me cringe and roll my eyes and punch my fist through things any victim man or woman boy or girl or anything in between feels like there's no way to ever get back what somebody who says that they were mugged somebody says that they were carjacked there's no difference typically like they're so when we walk around sound believing that women make these things up because they want to be a victim so they get status from it this is why these shows king at what's really happening and obviously she is able to continue that questioning of him because she's not going to buy what he's selling goes way hopefully it gets lighter and you learn how to deal with a little bit better but you never go back to where you were the language that's often used and I think that's what girls do nowadays they just make up shit about us and there is some kind of status in being a victim and all I can you can have post traumatic growth that's you know this is not a hopeless thing but the idea that this is something that women would things I envy sometimes post traumatic stress disorder and they tryin hide it from people the best they can sometimes including their husband sometime time and there is the statistic of there being false accusation yeah what am I trying to say like a false report and if this were to ever happen to anybody I loved this can't be fixed even if you catch the bad guy it does like it never a we've discussed this before on the show there's a difference between moving on and moving forward some people think that moving on is about you're just GonNa for you are going to be able to maintain your emotional and mental health you have to find a way to process through it talk about it and deal with it so you could integrate it get it move on it happened it's over that can never happen you're going to have to figure out how to integrate this situation what happened do you being victimized if you you think oh she and her boyfriend she's GonNa you know she'