20 Episode results for "John Jansen"
What Should You Know About IT in Small Business Today?
"This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast is brought to you by dot store ever tried to find a domain name and gotten the message. Sorry that domain name is already taken. You're not alone seventy percent of name checks on the DOT com fail. But with DOT store, you get the domain you want. Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. My guest today is John Schramm he is the founder of the purple guys. They offer stress-free it for small business. Finally, PRO GUYS DOT COM. So John Thanks for joining me. So it's fun for me. You know. I as my listeners interviewed people all over the world been doing this for fifteen years. It's always fun for me to have a Kansas City in fellow Kansas City in on the show because I don't do it very often of and So you're just down. You're probably about twenty five minutes away for me today. So that's always fun in this in this virtual world we live in. So. I'm sure you know everyone's familiar with managed it but. What doesn't mean actually so so what's a typical if there is such a thing? Engagement. Look like for managed it at least for purple, guys. Typical engagement and we focused on the small and mid sized business. defined, that is. On the Land Twenty Employees Company on the high end. Employees. So that let's. Talk about managed it. That's what I'm talking about managing and in typically in arrangement would be. Have anybody that's it dedicated it staff. So we're the primary functions we serve the help desk so we answer the phone. And the something generally has which screen. We typically take care of it's not just that an users report is data backup security. Major systems are patched. Major things are getting monitored from a security and stability perspective. Instead the infrastructure side, the end user support side. It what's typically involved minister? So does anybody have like the box with a bunch of fans in a closet anymore those days of having your own network server on your location is that Dan? I would say that There's a lot of still out there. A lot of stuff has moved to the cloud. Of. Getting rid of those boxes that just collect us in depreciate festered car. But It the reason they're still out there is people made an investment there's a five to seven or so year life span before after replace it. Out of the software used to be tied to being inside your four walls. So the the line of business applications that can drive. The organizations, your you practice management software, and for a long time practice management software companies were dragging their heels mckinney base, and once they moved to the cloud at me possible a lot of the smaller businesses to move the rest of their stuff to the cloud. I mean in a way even if a business has sort of proprietary hold on why they keep that Amino way, they're really just stalling the inevitable aren't they? I mean there's there's absolutely no reason to have all that hardware onsite Zor. No no financially. Reliable region. There's not financial reason at all. There's a couple of specific cases where the functionaries and play. The. communicate with the manufacturing for four equipment. It's such a high speed, essentially the gigabit speed, which is hard wiring speed at the in order to put out McLeod and to have that kind of performance. If it's cost prohibited other than the manufacturing world, there's some also some health care applications and county that same thing for the general business. There is no reason to refresh your technical infrastructure your. been fully depreciated. Will and you talked about speed I mean. I'm getting three hundred megabytes a second wireless. That starts getting you know like out. That's not so bad, right. Just go. Yes, constraints are going on in. The future to. Are. So. What have we probably talked about the biggest ones but I will ask you what what are some kind of big changes or trends or things that you see in the in the it world as it relates to business Trainees. Continuation everything moving outside of the four walls and stuff that comes with it. Moving outside of the walls are things that. Wouldn't necessarily think are associated hits it's the security pieces it's the monitoring of it. It's how do you maintain who's actually responsible for the backup is just because you put it out in the cloud. A of people in for our it's backed up it's not unless you're in some. That's a service. It's a quick ask. So redundant or whatever. Yeah. Correct. So. So what has been the I didn't ask you this directly, but I'm just GONNA guess you've been in business twenty years. Nineteen years. Okay Tech. I area. So that was good guess by me but. What what's been your I mean is there when somebody when you're sitting across from a prospect that maybe they're talking to somebody else who says they do managed it. You know why? Why did they hire the purpose? You think I mean is there some sort of innovative difference that you've been able to bring? The biggest difference that we see in the marketplace and the reason people come to us it some version of of the phrase we feel like we've outgrown our guy. In the small business world and it's it's a function of the business kind of growing up. It's. My cousin sister's nephew took a computer class wants that's not guy I starting because that's what you can afford. Then, that person tends to hang around and as you get to a level of sophistication where you need predictable backups instability and you've got some compliance things wrapped around your business, you look for more professional approach. So those are the things that drive people to come to the parole guys. The thing that keeps our customers and actually causes our customers to talk about other. Other potential customers is the customer service, aspect and NA. Watch Saturday night live for a really long time. They used to have it skiff it guy on there would. Pretty much any social skills at all? He would sit down show someone decides. He'd sit down with keyboard. Exists still a lot of the world. So the thing that we do from a hiring perspective is we hire I four, the personality of customer service civil someone that that has an aptitude providing customer service that also happens to have technical skills. And and that reviews what sets US apart is how we hire the fact that we fairly profiling that we make it a big deal, our job postings. Want. To. Deal with people not. See stuff in order to be affected. and. I suspect as an IT. Persson it's pretty hard to have a lot of tolerance for somebody who has for the third time a messed up g mail account. It's probably it's probably pretty. Pretty exhausting at times I should. Did you turn it off on again? We've had those. Passwords. So We're recording this in the fall of twenty twenty. Obviously there's a global pandemic going on which has led to a lot of remote work from home that it's kind of new. Companies had everybody locked inside four walls and head all their security in four walls and had older devices checked in. You know now we're like go out there to the world and still be safe I mean what kind of issues or challenges or opportunities as a has created for you? The biggest opportunity was setting equal to work up to work from home when we support about six people right now. Pre Pre pandemic about six hundred of them were set up to work from home. Now, I'll six thousand of them are set up to work from. And what I would say from a from a business perspective. To, look for its company owned equipment that they're using. Down a lot better than, Oh, they're gonNA use the same laptop their kids trying to remove school on. which someone says more more security protections. Device. But YOU WANNA make sure you have control and it's it's even created all these new access points into your corporate system and whether those systems are still sitting inside of a building somewhere or their I cloud. As you send those folks out in their working remotely. Each one of those people and can log in tential security hole for somebody else to get into your network and I will say that the bad actors have a field day when it comes to any kind of crisis whether it's healthcare crisis or something else. Sometimes something as simple as well. It's tax in like, Oh, you can get an automatic return. If you just click here, will automatically deposit. Account. The IRS does not do that but people feel those types of things. And and we've seen just a massive. In Its fishing when they're trying to get your attention and give you to click on something accidentally in an email just a huge spike in Fisher. So, having a good spam filter. Making. Sure. That is in use no matter where your folks are having. It's Kinda. The seventies password policy that you know they actually have a complicated password. They do change every ninety days a recommendation. And the other piece, and this comes with almost every piece of cloud software out there. So few minor in cloud with email or your applications it's it's using two factor authentication, which is, is you've got your user ID and your password and the mets second factor is either something about you meaning like facial recognition, our thumbprint or it's something you have like your cell, Phone Code. The but though John In. ANYTHING RELATED TO SECURITY ADS. Pain in the rear factor. On purpose but. I think more and more people are getting used to that as well. Especially, you know most of the banks and investment firms and things like that just require it now so. You're in a regulated industry. You have have to have it and have had for a while. But it's Everybody has to have. At this point. So how big a risk through mobile devices present in in this because you know a lot of company people are you know they're using their mobile devices to check their email? Do you know everything in that may be advice that they just got yesterday? But. Was Not checked in through. Through anybody I mean. So is that one of the bigger sort of risk factors that companies have to? Control or or at least be aware of it is another opening in your corporate security. It's the head does create another potential Wayne for fat actor to get inside your network. That is probably. The most common, bring your own device everybody. Set them something on there and pits cope mobile device management. You can put software under the manages the corporate side of it. In a perfect world, you should. I will tell you it across our customer base. Hundred or so small businesses. Be I think we've or A. Mobile. Device management. So the risk is air the exposures a little less typically, you don't have the same access from your phone. Have the rest, your network, but a sophisticated. Hacker can use the phone to they get a little bit in Info and then turned out. To get into your actual network so In is another key point. So An acronym, this gotten a lot of play in this kind of transitioned to work from home is is you know it's been around for a long time, but it seems like it's popped up into the the nomenclature all of a sudden for small business in that's VPN's. So, what maybe briefly describe what that is and like do I need one? epsn's rain virtual private network. So think of dedicated connection between you and whatever else is on the other end that the private side of the virtual private network. And I would say that if you allow folks to regularly work from coffee shops. Or any other public Wifi, you absolutely need to use VPN if there most of the time we're from their home little less exposure because it's not technically public network. But if someone's using your corporate resources across a public network, you WANNA use that private connection because it'll shield at Davies. It's by definition it's encrypted. As, it goes across there and it's an easy user ID password to get onto that VPN in the first place. So. Let me ask you should every concern I mean every you know you think about all the people that work in coffee shops whether they're just entrepreneurs or a freelancer or what what not I mean. Should they be using one of these kind of VPN services that you can get? If. You're concerned about the stuff that's on your phone, which most people actually should be. But I mean but even like from a laptop to I mean. Yeah when you're when you're working from a laptop, you actually want to use VPN servers. and. That's something that you can get almost like an APP right? Services for and you know if you've got IT companies supporting your own direct one. Security of gets overlooked. That as more and more folks who have gone to worked for home. It tends to be more relaxed and less structured environment. So I think people just in the different mental state. When there and sometimes they're. More apt to click on something. And the ability just shout next door walk down the hall to verify isn't there anymore so We've seen a lot of people click on stuff they should. Now. Let's take a little break in here from sponsor a great ecommerce brand is one that is short memorable relevant. So when you see the DOT store domain Know that this website is an online store dot store domain tells people your website is an ecommerce store instantly associate your website with selling with dot store you get access to a huge pool of. Quality names, which means that you don't have to compromise on the brand name of your choice. Join close to half a million ECOMMERCE store owners like you that trust in US dot store domain. The domain name, for commerce visit. Get, dot store and find your e commerce store domain name today. So. Let's turn back to your company a little bit What's what's been I always like to ask entrepreneurs. It's what's been kind of your. Marketing. To in terms of success, I mean what's been the most? Successful way for you to get in front of new prospects to turn them into customers as surveyed any sort of formula or platform that stood out for you will the biggest thing in its Kenner company names were called the purple it's actually an accidental brand has through started calling the purpose is. and. So we started wearing purple shirts early on, which is why our customers started columnists, the purple guys, and we ran with it, and I will tell you that tree pandemic One of the things it works really well for us four or five people showing up all all in purple to an event creates a conversation. Without And the for us is just to get people to associate the color purple technical support. and. The next time there knowing with their technology, which is gonNA happen. Guarantee, you're going to be frustrated at some point in the very near future. We just want to be top of mind that people can the will turn out, reach out to Promo guys. Seeping out with the jet support so that the biggest thing for us as leveraging kind of the accidental brand that we have in the recently. Helping like like we put on a ton of free content working from home like what they can do from. Free tools to stay connected with zoom and everything else was try figure it out I. Mean a lot of consolidating those resources you put out kind of his public services service announcements has been huge for us. Nine Oh, you're not in the. Real estate, commercial real estate business but do you feel as though this move to work for home from home was gonNA. Have actually some percentage of people saying you know what? We don't need that office anymore. I think there's definite shrinkage in the office space it's going to be required going forward. Even for US I mean, we've got three different office suites. And I would cut it by third right now. We'll take I'd want to own a bunch of those buildings right now because I think there. I. Think. There are multi thousand person companies that are realizing that they can do this without. Without the space. So I, want to dive into some of the. Some people might actually look at like the works place. You know the Google cloud is maybe almost a competitor in some ways although they don't offer any they offer knows. No service necessarily. But which. So straight me out on that, would you say that the? No, that's an actual an integration partner for you that you would go in and actually help somebody set all that up as devolves or is that or do you actually can sell against them to like there's a more robust solution at dancers both driving as a why do I need you because it's from the on Macleod and? I don't have a clue turn Stefan Cobb please health and most of the businesses we work with have enough of a level of sophistication. Based on their needs of organizing the data making sure only turn people have access to certain things that security down again stepping Mardi talked about security stuff advice backups in management around that in. Your your staff is inevitably going to have the question of why is this so slow or I lost my password you still need help so Those are really kind of a collaborative platform for us in whether it's the Google workspace with the Microsoft three, sixty, five world. That's we've helped a lot of leverage those platforms really in the last couple of months here, and and that was the train we saw going before the. Hit and I, think the pandemic. Fast food everybody's adoption and. An ability to to walk to go there. At least five years if not a whole decade. De Fast. Forward a deduction and and really even those tools you know you get into the admin panel in their three hundred, seventy three settings that you could do. So it's almost like having somebody that goes no these what should do So. Definitely, so January tell people were they can find more about your service and I was GonNa ask you forgot you can work under like a subscription base almost don't eat. So. So people just keep you on retainer so to speak for when they have. Cracked yet we we are a month a month service. Typically ask thirty six month agreement. But we are we are also a fixed fee. So essentially, it's either headcount based or device based. So we are very logical. So from small business perspective, we are always very sensitive to you know people don't have unlimited resources. So we trying to the main very predictable models they know exactly what they're going to spend with us. Always find us a purple guys dot Com. So Just Israel or the color purple. Purple texts or pretty much anything. It's ever GONNA come? So. Did you get that? Did you get that? You are L. Long enough ago that it was available or did you have to once you decided you were going to be the purple guys did you have to? Buy that offer somebody purple guys. And accidents no still has gales. That question of what up with just being. A guy who's a midwest term guys West version of y'all. Not. A A. Ernest gender-neutral individualized. Will, drop. Thanks for taking the time to stop by the duct tape marketing podcast in hopefully will run into you so. When when we go out places again, Cypriots has great. Thank you.
How to Make Your Brand Unskippable
"Sepah sodas the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by S E, M, rush is our Goto SEO tool for doing audits for tracking position. And ranking for really getting ideas on how to get more organic traffic for our clients competitive intelligence back, links and things like that all the important SEO tools that you need for pay traffic social media PR. And of course, SEO check it out at SEM rush dot com for its lash partner forward slash duct tape marketing, and we'll have that in the show notes. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. My guest today is Jim cook role. He is an expert in online, marketing, and branding. Also an author of a book remain talk about today. He's written a few others as well, but we're going to focus on your journey to becoming unskillful. So Jim, thanks for joining me. It's great. To be here on your awesome podcast. So let's define the word unskilled. What are you trying to say there? Well, when I came up with the concept of unskillful, it was really about, you know, what it meant to me. And it's today's busy business world and society in general. It's a mindsets. You know what are you, an skip -able to yourself? Your family your friends, your customers. Right. And I really kinda make the argument in the book that, you know, the world has become skip -able. You know, DVR's allows the fast forward through the commercials and, you know, we're staring at our phones three, you know, an average of three hours a day kids are staring at their phones in average of nine and a half hours a day, and it's getting harder and harder to break through get yourself noticed. So when you become unskillful, you know, you do things like purposely attract lifetime customers, you, you just a different level of thinking of how to. Make yourself stand out in today's really complicated and busy world. So I I'm assuming most people think in and you've already mentioned, the context of business, but really you spend a lot of time in this talking about how people are skip -able and it's not you're not just talking about a brand or product, but that there's an element to life in general that, that needs to be applied to this unscripted. So how do we do that? Yeah. So that's why it's called journey to becoming on skip -able in your business life. And career. And when I started writing this book, I had just come off a really tumultuous point in my life. I made a huge mistake and I decided to get into local politics, and that I tell the story in the book, but boy, it almost destroyed my marriage. It almost destroyed my businesses and almost destroyed my finances, and that really caused me to change the way, I looked at my life on my business. On my relationships with friends and family. And of course, it also helped me learn, you know, how people think, and how people you know, by I mean, there's something about marketing yourself to people to their face, as opposed to, you know, just be a faceless brand on the internet. And when I went to thousands of doors in my neighborhood and talk to people about myself and my values, and my beliefs and actually communicated with people face to face. I really learned what it took to become unskillful to those people. And I don't wanna ruin the story in the book, but I won my first election and, you know, and then what happened after that became extremely difficult. And that's when it almost ruined everything for me. So that's really what it's all about. I actually spent the first couple years of my business doing a lot of political work marketing, for political campaigns and didn't take me very long to realize that I didn't want to be in that world. So I can't. Being on the other side being elected officials. Well, but the good news is you. You did not fail. You learnt right? I did learn, and it was a big learning lesson for me, and it really changed my perspective on business and life. And that's really what this book is. It's kind of a cross genre inspirational business book. There's a ton of business case studies and marketing studies and things like that in it, but it's all flown around the concept of what it is to be unskillful in, in those instances in marketing business. But also in your life in your career. So I can I can imagine some people and we're gonna get into this. So I'm going to give you the chance to defend this position. I imagined. Some people thinking okay become on skip -able by figuring out how to get more attention, maybe by being louder. And I'm not sure that that's actually what you're suggesting is it? No, actually, the first book, I wrote nine years ago. Attention was about that concept. But that was nine years ago, the world's changed. A little bit since then. Right. So attention argument that people make that it's harder and harder to get attention in one way. That's true. But that's really not what this book is about. It's it's about trying to get through all the distractions. Right. So I talk about stories about how, you know, college kids. Did you realize that college students, they don't watch Netflix or television shows or anything with the they do it with the close captioning on? And after ask, why is because they say why can retain more information because they're doing multiple things. I my kids, they don't watch TV they watch YouTube videos, and when they're watching the TV show, they're also watching a YouTube video and at the same time, they're chatting with friends on Instagram and unstaffed chat. And and you know, they got one ear bud. And it's frustrating as heck when I'm trying to watch the show with them, but in today's world where so distracted more than ever. And it's, it's not about attention. We don't. Have an attention problem. We just have a problem of getting people to pay attention long enough. So that when they do like our content, and they do like what we put out there than they will pay attention and, and, and consume it voraciously. That's true. It's like binge-watching. So once you find a show that's validated social proof. And everyone says you should watch this. And once you get into it, and watch it. You'll sit down and watch ten hours of its straights. So it's not an attention problem. It's a problem of trying to create content that people really want to pay attention to and it's funny. You mentioned that demographic of millennials and another kind of common thing that I'm seeing is, is if somebody does commercials or a commercial entertainment that is that is really good and really effective. I mean they'll eat that up as well. I mean they don't see it as advertising at that point, because it's so engaging. Yeah, it's absolutely true. I mean, create content. I mean, the books, not content. Marketing book content marketing still works traditional benefit based marketing tactic still work. You get your free shipping and your coupons and all that stuff. That's never going to go away the differences and today's skip -able world. You know, those things are expected. They expect you to have those things now, people want something more from you. They want, of course, they want great content, and they can spot the ads even the content marketing, like, hey, Jay and my white get my white paper, get with your Email, and I'll you know, they realize that I like to say it's like the movie Christmas story when ralphie gets a secret Dakota ring, and then finds out that the messages, drink more oval teen even the younger generations today. We've reached the point where people are like, okay. I get it. It's an ad, but I really need more from you, as a brand, and I need to understand why you're going to share same same beliefs with me because I want us to port you on that. At level. Now, I don't want to just do business with somebody who is just has good for shipping offer. I guess is the best way to say it. So what are some of the key attributes of an unstoppable business, and I don't mean to things they do. I mean, how would you know your businesses on skip -able? Well, obviously, if you're attracting lifetime customers, and I like to say purposely attracting lifetime customers, and one of the things I talk about in great depth in the book in part to the book is the belief driven buyers, and eat them in did a brand study about this last year where they talked about belief driven buyers, and their sixty four percents of consumers. Now, consider themselves to be believed driven buyers and a belief driven buyers, somebody who chooses to do business with or not do business with based upon shared belief. Okay and consumers, regular people. Now they used to trust politicians and governments. They don't anymore. They they're turned into brands who now share. There. Same beliefs. I talk the story, of course about Colin Kaepernick and Nike in there, and how they use capper Nick to, to share common belief with their belief driven buyers. I tell story in the book about a yeti coolers, who you know they got to kind of scuffle with a national organization, and their belief driven buyers turned on him and started blowing their coolers up with dynamite and shooting them with high-powered rifles. But, but here's what's interesting, the people who used to be their customers, who stopped buying from them. The other people who never knew about yeti started buying their product. So we talk about this Ola rising world that we're living in, and how people wanna share these beliefs, and I give ton occa- studies stories about how important it is because I always say this John, would you rather have one percent of the entire market or one hundred percent of half of it. Because there's a lot of people right now you're struggling business owner, and you're like, I don't know how to make payroll next month. I don't know how we're going to do this. We're gonna get by over the next six months. Well, guess what? Sometimes, you know, you don't have to take political stands, but customers want to know what you care about, and they're choosing to do business with people who share those values with them. And that could be the difference between you making payroll and that or that could be the difference between you, you know, having the best year ever, I always tell people you have to take a stand, but yet to Stanford, something exactly the way look at it. It's funny. I wanna go down this rabbit hole. Concede do, but I think that's a lot of fuel scratch your head. Don't understand house Trump how, how are people loyal to Trump out of people vote for him? You know there seems you know, the people that are on the side that, you know, we're not favor. I think of people fail to realize that he's not a politician. He's a brand for those folks. And I think that's why he gets. Away with things that, you know, other politicians would never get away with. And I think that's you know, I think that's the explanation for it is, is his fans or whatever you wanna call them. See him as a brand and not as politician. Well, that's why the entire part two of this book is called understanding today's consumer and polarized world. And there's a great quote in the beginning of that chapter and it says you will continue to suffer. If you have an emotional reaction to everything that is said to you chew powers sitting back and observing things with logic now the internet isn't sure who said that they either say it was Bruce Lee or Warren Buffett, but it's a really a great quote in. It's kinda good setup for the whole middle part of this book is exactly what you said understanding how people think is what you need to really get through your head in today's really tribal is world. Once you have an understanding of how your customers thing then you can market to them in a better scenario. So, so I'm again, I'm. I put myself in a position of, of a listener out there, because I get these questions all the time when I talked to. But what if I'm in this really boring business, you know, business, nobody talks about or even wants to talk about because they don't want people know that they're going to a psychiatrist or that, you know, they're, they're doing XYZ. I mean, how does the boring business make themselves on skip -able actually talk about that in the book, I did a great interview with our friend day? And you Davis is in speaker, amazing business person, and we talked about that, and we talked about an accounting firm. Right. And you know, he's he he brings up the great point. He's like the joyful experience, that they don't give me when I turned in my taxes is something that will not make me recommend my firm to somebody else. So somebody goes on social media, which happens million times day. Hey, who do you use for your county or your tax services? Well, there's two answers you can give the first one. Is I use XYZ tax and they're fine or you can give the other answer with which is oh, use x y x y z tax. They are the best tax company in the world. They come in. They pick up my tax information from me at my house. And then when it's done, they call me invite me to this breakfast at the place over on one hundred thirty street with those great pancakes, and they give me free breakfast, and they hand my tax stuff over like those joyful experiences that you create with a customer, even with, like a boring business. I mean accounting, it's a lot of people's boring. It's boring to me. I don't like to be my taxes in comedy, if even if you're a plumber, or accountant or whatever it's about creating joyful experiences for your customers, and those are going to be the things that they're going to talk about talk about Jay bears. Talk triggers book in there, when you when, when people have a joyful experience with you. That's when they talk about you, like J bear says with the cheesecake factory, you know, there's so many great examples. In the book about those types of things I think some of the over the last some of the, huge the biggest like blow up crazy businesses over the last decade, or so are people that have changed or disrupted what you call poor experience. I mean getting taxi and getting in a taxiing going from point A point B was a terrible experience field because they had to get the point a point be Uber completely disrupts that poor experience. And whether you like Uber or not today. I mean company went from nothing to really, really giant by disrupting a poor experience. So how do we how do we look at our market that way? Yeah, you're right about the disruption. You know, I mean I tell a lot of stories in the book about disruption from the angle of thinking differently about your business and how you can disrupt something with joyful experiences. And, and one basic conclusion, I come to is like, you know, why retails dying a lot of it. It's because people don't want to go to the store anymore. They don't wanna get in their car, and they don't wanna be bothered. You know why? Dealerships are not going to really be effective in the future because nobody wants to go to the car dealership and deal with the car salesperson with the clip on tie, trying to get a deal from their manager and three hours there and signing paperwork. That's why companies like carbon dot com are splitting because you go online. Find the car. You want get the financing then you have it delivered to the vending machine thing near your home, you drive over you put your token in and out pops your car, and he drive home. You don't have to deal with the salesperson you don't have to deal with all those not joy -able experiences. Right. Same thing with anything were Parker getting your glasses set to your home. You try them on figure out the one you liking send the rest of the ones back the other one that I really love is casper who does mattresses, so you don't have to go to a store to deal with the pushy mattress salesperson anymore. You can go to their dream res and there's no sales people in they're trying to sell. Anything they just want you to come and test out the mattress. Then you go back to the website figure out the mattress you want. Order it, they'll ship it to your house. Bring it put it into your room. You sleep on it for one hundred days. And if you don't like it all you have to do is literally call them. They'll come and pick it up and take it back and give you your money back. It's not like you have to take it to the post office and put a bunch of stamps on it. Right. I was those are pretty funny, mental image. So if just Rupp team this entire model, which is people don't want to be bothered with leaving their houses anymore. They don't wanna be bothered with all of these things that take time in and create so much pain for them. And unfortunately or fortunately, if you're a consumer, I mean, the more companies do that and disrupt those industries, the more just becomes an expectation that they are actually creating buyer behavior that, hey, if you're not, you know, that, that becomes like the minimum bar now if you're not doing that. That then, you know why would I even consider it because I've once I've had that experience. I start wanting it ever, don't it. Well that is, what Jeff Bezos is trained us to do. We now expect that we can go online, click a button and have something delivered to our home. And there's a company called enjoy technologies and basically what they do is, if you order an iphone, you can go to the apple story could go to your AT and T center, you could go to best buy, but what enjoy will do is, if you order the product, I phone online, they'll actually bring it to your house have trained expert bring it into your home. Sit down with you transfer all your files. Set it up for you and show you how to use it and it's all free. So, like, why would you want the other way? And so now we start demanding it. So if you're one of those companies out there that are still doing things the way they've always been done in our industry. I mean I speak, a lot of conferences for sometimes, you know, outdated business model. That we're still hanging on there, but they want to learn how to use the internet and things that people have been doing, and it's like, hey, you may not think that this is where it's going. But, you know, these other companies are being you have to you have to take notes, and you have to do it. So at the end of the book, you make an offer for people to write a book with you, what's that old? Yeah. You know, I'm I really love the concept of how to become on skip -able in pretty much any vertical or industry. So I'm looking for people who want to write know books with me in different industries, verticals. So if you're like the best Plummer in the world or, you know, goat herder in the world or accountant, and you're interested in writing some type of unskilled book with me, I just say, reach out to me, because I'd love to talk to you about it because I really think that the unskillful mindset, applies across pretty much any vertical. Once you understand what it is. You're trying to -ccomplish in how you wanna stand out and be different. It's just a matter of applying that to your industry. So that's my plan is to write a bunch of different books in different verticals that are going to help people, and, and the unstoppable inch is, is born. Jim where can more people find out about on skip -able, and you general, and maybe if they wanna write that book with you just go to be unskilled dot com. That's B on skip, -able dot com. And you get to my website and you can see everything there. And yeah, I really enjoyed writing this, John. This was the it's the best thing I've ever written and the most personal thing I've ever written. And I'm really proud of it. And I know that people are really going to enjoy it. So thank you for taking some time for lowering me tell people about it because I really respect your business your career and everything you've done, it means a lot to me. Thank you, Jim, in and your passion for this comes across, and this is more than a book, this ascends like a movement. So we'll have be unskilled dot com in the show notes. Appreciate you tune in Jim hopefully will run into you soon out there on the road. It's been my pleasure. John, thank you would get.
How to Become a More Mindful Person
"Is. Episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast is brought to you by Zephyr CMS. It's a modern cloud based CMS system that's licensed only to agencies. You can find them at Zephyr CMS dot com more about this later in the show. Hello welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast CZYZ. John Jansen, my guest today is ricky comment. He is in American stage hypnotists, motivational speaker, TV personality, and the author of leverage your mindset overcome limiting beliefs and amplify your life be less stressed. Be Happier. It'd be more mindful. There's a lot of promise in that subtitle. So thanks for joining. Actually my publisher said Ricky what all that I said yes I want all on there because I'm all about marketing and I want people to know this isn't just one book that's going to do one thing. It's multiple things and I wanna put you on the right path. So yes, I know there's a long tagline other this and there's nothing in there that people wouldn't want. So why not? Right. So out listeners may have heard me say that your hypnotised so explain how that how a hypnotist gets on my show because. This the first time I think I've ever had one but also has a hypnotist come to write a book about mindset. Yeah. He didn't know that you actually are have me on the show. That's the great thing here. What else do you need? I will wake up at two minutes and not remember any of this. Yeah, married. You know my career started as a young kid and I'm not going to bore you with the details but you know it's it's there's no overnight success here I wrote a very unique show in my teens because everybody was doing hypnosis the same way they were copycatting the same look this swinging watch I'm GonNa, put you wonder and I just like Whoa and I was blown away by this is not what it is, but you know like magicians were for years not a category the same but you know it is that stereotypical top hat and then of course you know and and it just this the spiral happen and then copy full came and then Doug Henning was also same realm and then we had we jump ahead and we got David Blaine doing stuff and he didn't look like a magician. You got you know Chris Angel and I had this vision of doing something and most people when they look at what I do. They don't really think of hypnotist. My hidden agenda John was to really educate people to a really simple technique of relaxation to remove fears and focus on one thing and make that one thing true to what's going on right now. Now, that's what happens in the show. So if it happens in the show to individuals on stage. Why can't we do this every day in our life? Why can't we become a better leader a better salesperson, a better friend, a better spouse, a better coach teacher what have you and I know that I'm just throwing stuff out there but it's so true because most of what we do and most of what we want to do. That decision is made between our ears. And so my job is to help people navigate those waters and and so when you ask me, how does a hypnotise get to be on the show? Is You know it's really lead with it most of the time and I'm so glad you did because it lets it gets get the elephant out of the room here. Yes. My training was a hypnotist, but my training was teaching people how to be hypnotised. You were ten and new join the circus, and that's a way more interesting story than you know most most of my guests let's just face. So tell me this. Did, this idea of of people's mindset? I I mean, did you discover that you know in like again I you wanted to be a star TV on the stage, right? That's what maybe started the journey. But then you made some discoveries about human beings. Maybe in doing this show I mean is is that how it evolved or did you really start from scratch and say you know what I? Can you know I can help people with their mindset. I had somewhat of that vision, but I will tell you it was the life learn journey in the the education even today that as I was doing this I was self discovering I was finding a better version of myself. I was figuring out how I can transcend this message. So yes, I. I. will say that I did have this this vision but now this vision is grown more than. You know I'm glad that it's grown more than I. expected in. You know what? Maybe that shows other people that you just kind of push yourself and and do things that are outside your comfort zone at times. Because that's where we learn. Better I think we're all I mean I think most of us are just experiencing life and we stumble into something. You know that because we were chasing stuff that seemed interesting to us, I, mean I think many entrepreneurs may in hindsight at least will tell you that's maybe how they got to where they are. I'm we've we've used the word mindset several times. You've used it several times. Is there a definition for that like how how do you make that in context of? A day to day that's a great question. But you know I think that's up to the individual. I mean I think everybody's mindset is unique to them. So when they? Have a great mindset. Go have a great mind be mindful and we use those words so cavalier like but. We have to understand and this is what I teach people a time. I want people to understand what your feelings, your emotions, those yours onum. But I I. Think it's a matter of look at this way. Your mindset is like software. It runs who you are John you get up in the morning John You. You look in the mirror and you say this is going to be a great day or this is horrible that depends on you and what your software says and you get to choose what that software do not the software, and that's where I think people get hung up on life even in business they they use their mindset or their excuses while they failed because they believe they were going to feel like my mind got the best of me really who's is it You know I just went ahead and all those oreo cookies. Well, you know I'll start my diet next week you know I could never be as rich successful as the guy down the street and listen I I'm not selling some magic bill here and I'm not gonNA. If you. If you think I'm GonNa tell you something I'm not going to disappoint you I will sell you something but I was sell you on yourself. That's the key I mean that's I know that sounds simple and people can't be that easy. But. You've been this world for how many years and some of the sometimes the simplest things. That you've experienced in your life in your teaching and your coaching and your service to your clients sometimes the simplest things. He No it's funny when you use the metaphor of software you know one of the things that I see happens lot of people is software is a program it is pre programmed to do certain things. And and those things are automated in a lot of ways in software and I think that that's in some ways. That's probably the negative aspects or I think the aspect most people come under the influence of is that. We almost get to the point where we're not making decisions anymore. We're. We're just like when this happens I do this. and. So so talk a little bit about this idea reprogram you eat the software because over lifetime our personalities who we are skills are traits are are a talent, becomes our software and it serves us at that moment but sometimes, it software like on our phones gets corrupted by thought or feeling an expression or even inexperience and when I say it's corrupted, it just might lead us in a direction that doesn't serve our purpose now. and. So if you don't allow that software to change if you don't allow that software an update like on our APPS, we were constantly updating those devices to make them work better and we will cover them. We put a protective case around him. We put a shield on him, but do we the same thing for ourselves? I mean. Listen I you and I can talk for an hour but we're not going to do that. The point is this I want people to realize is that the simplicity of? Step back and hit the pause button and maybe what's guiding you now isn't what you want it to be. And you you have a choice? So. I think you say that somewhere in the book that people create the reality and I don't think anybody would. Well some. People might. Might argue that but I think most people get that you know. What really hold us back. I mean I think if we fundamentally understand something I need to exercise I, need to eat better. I. Need All the things that hold people back Why don't we do them like why don't we just go buy another book? The tells us to say that we make a really good point. So let's let's add to that. Okay. So if you wanted to those things, I, need to do those things. Could you give me a structure that specific for you of how do those things? So if somebody wants to be more successful in business and they're driving, they're they're they're helping their clients, they're serving them with their customer service or product. To be more successful, couldn't come up with a plan a blueprint of of what you should be doing. And same thing with losing weight or even sleeping better being happier being. Most of us know what to do. So your question is what why don't we do it? Why why don't we? Well, because I think that we get in the way of our own success, we sabotage our success before we start based on whether we think. We can achieve it. If we don't think we can achieve something why try a why try because like losing weight which is too hard right now, start next week next week will never come. It will come, but you won't start. It's like a New Year's resolution. Why wait to start something because you're not you're giving yourself to roads a destination successor failure. So why even go there But. Even. So how do you do that? How you get out of the way of your own success I again, I'll go back and what I said you have to hit the pause button and sit in the audience of your life and look at the patterns and habits and things that you're doing. Really look at is that really helping you or is it hurting you? In you know. Just, that statement alone of of I like the idea of in your own audience because I think one of the challenges so many people have is that we're just going through life. You know we're just going through day to day we're not observing anything. You know a lot of. I think that even starting to witness how you respond how you react. You're you're negative thought your judgement you know even just that I think that's step number one is in it until you start seeing these things, you're never gonNA work on improve. Well, how often do people actually Record themselves giving a presentation, then go back and watch it before they actually give it. It's painful. Is it? Or are we just don't want to admit that maybe there's a better version of us that we can improve on it not. Yeah. Way Better Way to say it but I know. I've looked back at gone. Wow. Do I really do that directly jingle my coins in my pocket all it's to be I mean it's the only way to get better like but John you weren't aware of that unless you sat in the audience it's so true. It's so even when I work with executives on executive coaching platform speaking or even just leading a group of people, you know they're leading other people who is leading them. And how do we feed ourselves? Again there's so much going on in this world right now, and you can buy a thousand books on self help but none of them are gonNA help you. None of them are going to really make a difference in life and you can be really rich in a library of things. Unless you're open to change unless you're open a growing unless you realize self-discovery never ends and I'm not trying to be cliche and think of it every cliche I have but. There's something to be said for it. One of. My favorite things. And maybe you could set this up just I'll set it up in you. You finishes that you ask your readers audience members to name their. Three biggest assets and Generally, speaking you know like most of its maturity, maybe you could tell me something different. Well, you even when I'm doing the platform program before we even start once I get to know me and I say, hello and we go through this process I usually ask that question like in the book name, three of your most valuable assets that you have and they will know put it on a piece of paper then I'll ask them how much. Time do you give those assets you know if if you're if it's your brand new car, you're going to clean. You'RE GONNA put gas in it. Maybe in charge who knows your house you're GonNa Clean Whatever, and then even your portfolio's you can still try to manage and put some time into it. Okay. Fine. You can start adding those up. I'm not going to give you an audit, but you've got some time there for all those things. And then I asked him the question if move your most valuable asset to a separate column in the first. Three. And they look at me in, they're pondering and then John Moving right ahead I to stop and say listen this is kind of a trick question. Conduct, an example, the most valuable asset is even on the piece of paper nobody even questioned by that question. Most valuable asset is ourselves our own mindset and listen all the material things in our families and everything else are very important point and don't get me wrong. But without you, there's nothing. and. If you give time to all these other things in life, why aren't you giving time for yourself I mean really stopping and when people say well I I have hobbies and jog and I do this and I'm instagram and all this is my. I'm blogging. But do you really sit And and BE PRESENT And just do what we are. You know made to do is breathe for a moment. In start to again now, we're talking about what you brought up. Sitting the audience. Define the patterns and habits. Do they serve you now and if they do? Can you improve on them? It's a simple stuff folks but you know just a great reminder of just resetting updating your internal hard drive. You know what's funny though is. What you just described sitting in a really taking time for yourself. Right now for life people is one of the most stressful things can do. I mean you watch people sit down there like Oh. Yeah. Got A moment here I'm just GonNa sit here like instantly on the phone they gotTa have a distraction because sitting with their shots by themselves is scary right? Right. And it's it's. One of those things that you know you have to get past that moment and and feel what it's like or you will constantly you be looking for facebook it's crazy and you'll be living dreams of other people's pictures. You'll be living the life of somebody else, but to live your own life and and again I, I'm not trying to get on a soapbox here and I'm not trying to be a cheerleader here but my job has always been to help people open up doors within themselves because there's a lot of them and listen I'm not saying bring up feelings and this is not the supposed to be this. Great Warm Fuzzy moment. Now listen you know you even brought it up and I think everybody brings it up every single day in some shape or form why not be a better version of ourselves? Why not? Yeah. And I think that in in reading through the book, you're not really prescribing what that is. You know it's that's I mean I think that's the real key is is why not give yourself choices? As opposed to kind of saying, well, know this you know I'm poorer on this or that. So I'm destined to be that I. think that's the real key is not that's why that's why to me. It doesn't feel. So soapbox because it's basically just saying you know, let yourself go and be you know who I mean you get to choose and you know. Somebody else would choose something completely different. So I, think that's the positive side of it. Today content is everything. So our websites are really content management systems, but they've got to work like one. Check out for it is a modern cloud based CMS system. This licensed only two agencies really easy to use. It's very fast. Won't mess with your Seo really reduces the time and effort to to launch your clients websites beautiful themes. Just really fast profitable way to go. They include an agency services to really kind of make them your plug and play deb shop checkout Zephyr dot com that is e. p. h. y. r. CMS dot. com. If I'm sitting here thinking, okay they're talking about mindset grade. Okay. I need to I. Mean you actually have a kind of like fourteen days of of you know activities or things that sort of progressively you actually call them progressive jumps that you add on kind of and I think that that. That approach something that you found that you don't read a book and go yeah, I'm going to develop some new habits. It's almost like no take this work on this now go to So if somebody's listening in thinking okay, I, Wanna I wanNA dig into this a little more. What's the Path can look? That's a great question high level. So I I recently sent a book to a colleague of mine in in the first thing he said was I'll read it tonight or read it over the weekend I go. No, don't because. I have done I go no I. Don't think you understand what I'm saying that's not the premise of the book I don't want you to read the entire thing one night I want you to take glibly ten or fifteen minutes out of your day, and that's all I'm asking I. Know You're busy and I know you have a lot of responsibilities and I know there's your hours of work of change. I'm asking you ten fifteen minutes a day just to read one Chapter Day for the next fourteen days it's fourteen challenge. Oh. And by the way The challenge doesn't stop after fourteen days. I. Hope you create a pattern and habit after fourteen days that serves you well, and that you WANNA do the techniques and the exercises that I've shared with you in this book, and if they apply to you and you're seeing results after fourteen days. This won't be one of those half to do. It's going to be one of those I want to do, and I'm really passionate about this I really want you to know that this is not some flip of the switch whatever you WanNa do let's just start by hitting that pause button. Redirecting our mind and becoming aware of our best intentions. And let's make them our greatest accomplishments and let's not stop there. So. Speaking of not stopping there I know from our previous conversations that you actually have an APP. That is A. Companion to the book, but also than any extension isn't. This Overnight success was multiyear projects. So the APP released July of the twenty twenty and It is a a mobile APP available on Android and Ios that as you read the book, you are supported by each chapter by exercise and audio track within the the APP but you can't just download the APP and listen. You've got to have the book to unlock that section. Of course, there's information more on on other things from like sleeping better reducing stress if you really. Want. To dive in and deeper, and you know go into the mindset coaching. There's a series of mindset programs that somebody can subscribe to and and there's a library of content from losing weight to having more confidence in sales and customer service to overcoming the challenges of this year we we even just launched a new section in the APP for students to listen to to help them motivate themselves through test taking and challenges of virtual and face to face classes so. this is my world I'm a I'm constantly putting content. Yeah. The the APP is available now irs in Android in the book is available fully on. Amazon. and. Bookstores near bookstores near you and I saw the AMAS aglow barnes and nobles picked it up as well. So I'm pretty excited about all the different platforms. So. Let's give people just one taste you. You have issues as I said like the fourteen days you know you can have different. Skills, habits lessons. So I picked out one and maybe you could just give us a little teaser about the mindset Mac. You know we think of a magnet we think of what does it either attracts things to stick to or or repels the opposite and I think that that's one of the key premises behind leveraging your mindset the tire the book is understanding that you can either attract the positive things you know and let them stick and that becomes who you are because we all know people like that. We see people to store and the like that. So positive going to. Go Talk to them. I'm going to get out of the way and that's okay I'll get back in line and then there are people that literally are negative and you just run away from them and you want to be able to push the negativity away and I I know that seems like just a an analogy but it's so true we do this every day we are brain in our body can be a magnet and we can either attract the positive things. All the negative. But at the same time, we take the constructive thoughts what I call constructive auto thoughts or deconstruct auto thoughts, and in Mesh that together and I don't mean to get too complex there. But that's really just think of it that way just let's repel all the negativity negativity and that's attract. NEW SUGGESTIONS THAT GUIDE? US daily. So maybe putting you on the spot here An author when somebody says on page thirty six, you said this and I'm like, AH, wrote that two years ago. So obeys thirty six but but you end the chapters and I like books to do this with with something you call software updates and progressive jumps. They're kind of like here's what to do now or here's what you learned. So in in the mindset magnet, can you give us an example of like what would be a lesson or what would be an update in in in that? You know the coincides with that while we're on video so I can share I have my book right here not cheat, but I don't even have to cheat I'll actually just tell you. So you know again the words words I would say words are magic to receptive listener. and. John You. Know One of the things that I want people to do is be more conscious and aware of their thoughts meaning and I'm mindful I I'm careful about my words but I think it goes beyond that. I think we don't. Really set in, write down the words that we should be saying sometimes meaning. I can be successful. I am successful man that's a profound effect. I can or I am. And when in you'll see within the book I call these the I am statements. You know I am losing weight versus I can lose weight I am successful. I am happy I can't be happy I mean. Again I don't want to give people a choice I wanna give you direction and I think when you write these things down like a grocery list in people got to go to work. Now this isn't work. This is like structure. You're you're becoming a programmer I mean, this is pretty cool. Programming sounds hard. It's I don't know how to do software I don't know. How to write code you do let's let's write code for yourself right now and so what I want people to do these progressive Janis action steps at the end of the book at the end of each chapter is to literally start to learn how to write their own code and that's just the simplicity of what words are magic two year receptive listening device. Awesome. Thanks so much for drug buddy duct tape marketing podcast. You tell people where they can find of talk about the book but just maybe more information on you. Of course, my website Ricky Kelman dot com that's spelled R. I C. K. why K. L. M. O. N.? Dot Com you can look me up online all the information but of course, the the book is available on. Kindle like I. Said Barnes and Noble Bookstores Bookstores near you and also the mobile APP can be downloaded at your APP store whether it's Google play or the APP store for. Apple and listen I I'm one of those people and I think you know this already I answer emails I answer the posts if you follow me on social, media? it's it's me. It really is I pretty in the hundreds of emails a day. I will get to them. but I do respond personally still to this day. Working thanks so much hopefully will run into you next time we're out there on the road. Awesome. Thank you. My friend I appreciate you.
Flex Your Curiosity Muscle to Grow Your Business
"This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by gusto modern easy payroll benefits, for small businesses across the country, because your listener you get three months free. When you're on your first payroll find out at gusto dot com slash tape. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. My guest today is Diana candor. She is a keynote speaker innovation coach and co author of the book the curiosity muscle. How four simple questions can uncover powerful insights and exponential growth, so Diana. Thanks for joining me Tokay to be here. John, thank you so much. So I've been doing this show for about thirteen years. Hundreds and hundreds of episodes. And I do believe you are the first husband and wife team that I've now had on the ship. Your husband was on a few months ago. So it's a first while we like records. So I'm having. Mcandrew family. Thank you so much for the honor. So the book the curiosity muscle is written as a fable business fable, about institutionalising curiosity. So maybe set the plot force. Yeah. Lutely, I mean, the plot is what happens to most companies once they experience excess is they get really comfortable, very complacent, and they moved their curiosity. They start thinking that they know their customers better than the customers know themselves and what happens is you quickly lose touch with your customers, and start becoming irrelevant. And this happens frequently with large organizations when they find out that it is much harder to stay at the top than it was to get there soon. And you wrap it around a fictional character. That's yes, a Jim, I and so your previous book, I think you did the same thing. Maybe you don't have a lot of experience to answer this question. But I you know, I was once asked to write a fable of type of book on referrals, and I just I started the process and found it so much harder than just telling people what to do. I feel about nonfiction books, John, so I started writing fiction bucks. And I'm like, I can't really talk about my former clients, and what they went through because I've signed all these nondisclosures. But if I write a fiction book, I can talk about everybody and everything as long as it's a fictional story wink week. The characters in this book, do not represent anyone in real life. Right. Now they're in album, lots and lots of companies that have gone through very, very similar experiences. In fact, Jim Collins wrote a amazing book called how the mighty fall in which he described the same process, but much more scientific way and there's a very similar kind of loop. Two companies that go out of business. And this is like the fictional version of that listeners will business owners. I'm going to tell you one of the biggest problems with owning a business. Is that nobody promotes you to that position? You pretty much decide I'm going to do this thing. And now everybody thinks you should have all the answers, and I think a lot of small business owners feel like they have to have all the answers, and that sort of leads to not only shutting off curiosity, but whole heck of a lot of stress. So how is small business owner, do I get over that idea of feeling, like I have to have all the answers? Everybody's looking to me, why it's no different than most people who get. Voted to manager they got promoted because they had the right answer. And so they have to keep generating them. So in both of those cases, I will tell you that the most successful people ask much better question than they give answers. And they know that curiosities secret to unblocking exponentially, better answers than whatever. Their got initially says as one of those business owners took me of years. Dillard, people would come to me, and ask me, people who worked with me or trying to do a project for me. Would ask me question. I felt like I had to tell them what to do. In fact, I felt like that's what they want. I later learned that they actually didn't want the answer. They wanted me to say what would you do? Right. No. I mean, you can get so much further just by asking better questions. It's one of my things, you know, if you're satisfied with the results in any part of your life, what you need to do better questions, and you can significantly change them. Listen pack before questions. I'm gonna go over real fast. But I wanted to ask you questions Pacific to them. So they are, what am I blind spots and my IRA? Tising M I measuring the right thing. And how can you involve others to get what you want? So we'll tackle each of those the first one, what am I blind spots? It actually takes a degree of owner ability to even admit that you have those at Mesa. Most people think of their blind spots, they relate them to their like weaknesses. And so they're like, well, I know what I don't do. Well, I'm terrible at showing up on time or whatever, but blind spots are not your weaknesses, blind spots are things that you think you're doing well, but are actually, you know, impacting, your work, and so whatever problem, it is that you're trying to solve. If you're trying to understand your customers at are you always have line spots and what you think you know about them. So creating some kind of a process or systematising staying in touch, and understand your customers, even as they Volve and change that will help you not have blind spots that, you know, if you don't uncover them, you might get blindsided. One day by your customers is terribly practical to. I mean, how many people have created a product or service in vexes all up it went out to the market and mortar. Win. I don't need that what we thinking, and it's like the majority. Yeah. And so really great question. I am. I prioritizing number two, and boy, this one this one is so hard because, you know, people have that strategy meeting, come up with the nineteen things they need to get done this quarter. And you know, I think one of the best things that question, probably begs is what, what should we not be doing? I mean they never teach you what to not do as a manager, small business owner, and you cannot be busy and curious at the same time you cannot be busy and creative at the same time, you can hide busy and innovates state at the same time and we as a society are busier than ever before. And we're producing less than ever before. And one of the things about that idea of not like focusing on my pricing is you could make yourself busy. It's really easy to make yourself every busy. And so if you don't take I mean a couple years ago, I started the practice of taking two days a week, where I just don't do any appointments. No of these calls there. They're supposed to be my kind of focus time and made all the difference in the world. In terms of actually getting real important stuff done. Yeah. I think about my days as offense or defense and defense is like when I'm answering emails when I'm doing things that other people have asked me to do, and that's not when I'm creating valuable content creating work for my client, and that's often, right? That offense looked scores point. You're not gonna get to your goals on defense alone. Just by checking your Email. So I always think about my days like am I having the right proportion of offense to defense? 'cause list face it defense pays less than minimum wage usually. So I'm sorry for all the defensive people out. There is just the truth defense is not win championships in business is not for point now. All right. So the third one, and I think people really struggle this M I measuring the right thing. I mean, I know there's so many things I can measure how do I know figuring out the one that has impact, well, I think particularly useful to your, your life, teen people who'd decade marketing, and even small business owners like it's so, so alluring to measure where called vanity metric, and these are numbers that making feel good about the initiatives that you're taking like how many visits your website, how many people attended a conference like numbers that can only go up, but they are not related to any actual substantive valleys for your company. So how do you measure numbers that can actually look bad for you to know whether or not? You're actually going in the right direction or whether we should change course sometimes, though. And here's what I struggle was. Sometimes I find things that are kind of intangible, actually make. I mean they're they're, they're more the marker towards the fact that yeah, you're you're making progress. And I know that sounds because you, it's intangible. Right. You can't really put a spreadsheet around how many smiles we got today as something like that. I like two questions. I call failure metric so everybody has success metrics for their project, and those usually take a while to figure out whether you're gonna be successful or not. Failure MetroPCS, you can figure out much sooner, and that is asking yourself. How would I know if it's not working? And when would I know that and in that case you can measure the intangible, so, like if you have a h that you're giving and everybody on their cell phone? You know, like how do you know if it's not working, we'll people aren't requesting you to give other speeches or they're just not paying. Mention during your speech. So failure metrics can be are those in Pange things that you're talking about, and you can find them much sooner than looking at your business at the end of the year and figuring out if you pick the numbers everyone loves payday loving payroll provider? That's a little weird still small businesses across the country. Love running payroll with gusto, gusto, automatically files and pays your taxes. It's super easy to use, and you can add benefits and management tools to help take care of your team and keep your business safe. It's loyal. It's modern Hugh might fall in love yourself. Hey and has a listener you get three months free when you run your first payroll. So try demo test it out gusto dot com slash tape. That gusto dot com slash tape. Let's talk about failures since you keep mentioning it. You know, it's a hot topic right now in the startup world, and I'm sort of over it. I'm sort of sick of it, because I think a lot of people have have used it, as you know, the fail fast or figure out, you know, don't be afraid to fail. And I think that that's sort of a cop out. I, I'd like to turn it around and say figure out how to succeed obviously, if something doesn't work, it's teaching you something, but I'm sort of tired of the word failure. So. So there I think it's overrated I feel weigh way about entrepreneurship and innovation. You know, all these words, they, you look, I believe in the growth mindset, which has not yet been really corrupted, and that is no matter where you are today. You could always be better and you can't be better without take misteps, you know, like if I need somebody and we were talking about ice skating, and I have you ever fallen while ice skating? And they say no. I've never fallen it's amazing. I'm really quite good. Then I can definitively say, you are not good at I getting, if you've never fallen, right? Because you've been like hanging onto the not really like trying anything interesting. And that's how I feel about failure. Missteps there you have to have something that don't work out that pushing forward to learn better. But with that said, I believe in the concept of deliberate practice, which is not just like failing for failure. Your sake but figuring out your blind spots and what you need to improve that in order to increase the result of what you're working on. I know it's become sort of cliche to say, but, I mean, they're to me, there is no failures just learning moment for me. Let's right. That's just kind of a mindset that I'm never gonna stop doing what I'm doing, just hopefully taking in the feedback, and using it to get better takes a really long time for people to, to grass and feel that way. And I think that they're never gonna feel that way until they experience some success. And, and it you know, once you experience success in your life, you can always point to a pivotal failure in your life, that created it or stem from it. So like my first book was was a very successful books with a lot of copies and kicked up my speaking career, but I never would have started writing it if I didn't have a start up that was going for -able, and I was so. Oh, ashamed and embarrassed that I started journaling as a way to deal with my feeling around it. So, like I think every big success stems from some kind of failure. And we're just talking semantics at this point. It's really more like what you do with it. That really is. Right. Only matters. So I think we're on question before we haven't tackled yet. And this is actually my favorite because on the surface, it seems pretty simple. But if it gets more complex than that. How can you involve others to get what you want? And what I meant by the more complexity be pretty easy to say. Gabby team player give others credit but I think we're this question. Gets really hard is how can you how can you get others to hold you accountable as a business owner. I think that's you know, that's one of the biggest challenges, I have nobody to hold me accountable. And that would be a great way to get other people involved in helping me get what I want though. There's two parts to this question. The first. Exactly what you're talking about. And that is there's been researched on that. You know if you have a goal and you share that goal with somebody you care about your sixty five percent likely to reach that goal, which is the main thing. But if you set up a regular check in with that person where you're just doesn't how it's going and what you're planning to do next. You are ninety five percent likely to reach that goal, and that is the power of accountability on being able to reach whatever crazy dreams use that out for yourself. So that's kind of the first element and the second element of it is back to how everybody puts pressure on themselves to come up with the big ideas. Oftentimes when you involve other people and coming up with the ideas, they're going to have way, better ideas than you. And they're gonna feel an ownership stake in those ideas. So if you have small reach location, and you're trying to figure out how to get customers through the door rather than you yourself thinking about how. Do it. Have a meeting with your team? And just have them brainstorm. And sometimes they'll come up with crazy ideas and the work on their ideas in their off time, and feel really like that sense of ownership to execute on the much more than if you had come up with an idea and put it on them. I think that, that over time, particularly people just stop coming up with if they never get asked, or they never get involved. And so you kind of, you know, it's a vicious cycle, you kinda shut down the innovation that you could have. That's right. And they're closer to the customer oftentimes, the new are. So they're gonna have much better of opportunity, or insight into opportunities than you will. In addition to your writing in speaking, European casters. Well, yes, I am a brand new pack. So you're telling me and again, I'm not sure when people are listening to this. If you'll have new shows that you're publishing, but you don't. The premise for the show because I think, in addition to being credible useful, I think it's rather a rather intriguing idea of what you're doing in the course of writing this book, curiosity muscle, I gave myself crazy audacious goal. So one of the up lots was a character in the book was trying to do at ten minute clank, and I thought, well, I'll try it like I'm not gonna get it. But if I tried I can at least write about it in a much more realistic way. And at the time I do a one minute plank, ten minutes. Seemed completely ridiculous to me, and I started applying these things the principles that I teach organizations to myself and in four and a half months of struggling with it. But but sticking with it I didn't eleven and a half minute plank. And when I tasted that level of goal achievement I was like, oh my God. What can't I do? So sat down with a piece of paper and listed. Okay. Here all the things that I wanna fix about myself and I have. Confidence issues and I have anxiety that I struggle with, like forty nine different items of Corbeil it making eye contact. Terrible taking compliment every like I have insecurities about being a mom, so everything I wanna improve about myself as a professional, and then I use the podcast as a way to hold myself accountable to working on each of these things. So every week I talked to an expert who helped me uncover blind spots in those areas that I would never have guessed on my own, and try things that I never would thought to try and, you know, I've been having some very significant results. In addition to being a punt coast. It's sort of a self improvement project that you have somebody holding you accountable in some ways, I mean 'cause you're right through to the world, so it's awesome. I have this formula in my life giants, which is the scarier something is the more people I need to hold me accountable to it. So the more broadcasted so working on forty nine different things very. Scary for me and very vulnerable. So I just tried to tell many people as possible, so don't work of people. Find out more about you and your work and hopefully tune into the punk us. Yeah. They can find everything at Diana cantor dot com links to books, speaking in the podcast and the podcast is called professional a s which just means really professional. So they of means nothing hunt. Just that people ask me what it means. It means really, really professional. And so that's Diana candor Yar dot com, and we'll have it in the show notes as well. So Diana great book, the curiosity muscle. You have t shirt that I've tell people all the time that curiosity is my superpower and need to, I guess, needed T shirt from me, but I'm not sure I wanted to bring you one, I only have them in women cut, so I can offer them to your daughters, or your wife, John. I don't have a unisex version yet. So I have a story that it may or may not be true. I grew up with them. I have seven brothers and two sisters so ten ten of us, and my mom used to tell a story. And like I said, I have no idea if it's true or not. But when they would take us all somewhere. Dad would say you watch other nine in watch John and have very strong curiosity muscle. Well, I think that can only, you know, get you in trouble when you're young, but get you into a lot of opportunities as an adult credited with every the thirty year journey. I've been on is just bouncing from one thing. I'm curious about to another. So that's why the title of this book could treat me. So thank you for being curious about the book and for inviting me on the show, and there's the most fast paced interview I've ever done, but also the most exhilarating. So thank you so much. And we didn't mention this, but you're just down the street and king City, Missouri. So it's always fun to, to interview somebody in my hometown. Which I don't get to do. I know there's, there's a lot of authors lurking around to in the show is some listeners will recall saying, hopefully bump into you out there on the road and say it's probably more likely with you than. So thanks for joining us, Diana. And again, I will end it as I always do. Hopefully, I'll see you somewhere out there on the road. John Heke thin.
How to Thrive by Building a Community and a Strong Personal Brand
"This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing. Is brought to you by Clavijo Flavio helps brands build relationships across any distance delivering email marketing moments. Your customers will appreciate. Remember share in good times and bad. It's all driven by real time. E commerce data. You can make sure every interaction feels more personal when you have a three hundred sixty degree view of customer, the grows. Possibilities are endless visit, clavier dot com slash duct tape to schedule a demo. That's K. A. V. I. Y. O. dot com slash duct tape. Ellen welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. My guess today is Ramon. Ray He is a longtime entrepreneur author, speaker, founder and producer of smart hustle media. Latest book is called. Celebrity CEO how entrepreneurs can thrive by building a strong. Personal Brand Ramon. Welcome to the show Hey John! Thanks for having me man. It's great to be here great to be your friend of many many years and. I've learned reading many of your books your podcast. Thank you for the work that you do to our community. Thanks thanks so much and I gosh. We're probably going back about probably about fifteen years ago. When are you doing small business Big Event Events in New York. Two Thousand and six, the first one was I. I can't remember which one year at but early days early stage so pretty pretty crazy, pretty crazy, so let's talk a little bit about your latest MC celebrity CEO. Everybody wants to be a celebrity. CEO, don't they? So you know what? What does it take? You know beyond having a social media profile. To celebrities one. John is the proverbial Kim Kardashian Lebron James. Globally known presidents, etc. Everybody knows that definition, but I'm talking about. I think everybody can be a Ramon. A John a Lee or whatever to my point, these names meaning we all have our lanes very small living outside of my world. Nobody knows me. John Nobody probably knows you at your. You have a big name, but it's outside of certain worlds who knows John Absolutely and my encouragement to small business owners with this aspect of celebrity co? If you make pins with the right things at John's talked about for years, you could be the most well pen maker in your community, independent world or secondary geography. Maybe you're the best pen maker in Austin Texas, so the geography like plumbing. Or Industry. That's what that means. But there's some things that go with that. Though right I mean you're. You're using very sort of earth examples, the pen maker, but that pen maker has to have something that has people talking about them or s to have something have a point of view about pens. that. Nobody else has right I mean that's that's kind of the difference. It's not just a matter of making a better product or having a bigger company there there are certain elements that actually amplify that right correct and I think there's two parts of that. Is You know you the same thing? I'm? I live on social media and I think that not that you have to do zig ziglar. Ziglar didn't have social media, but I think media helped. Make it no excuses for the pen maker to do that the platform. who how you're telegraphing what you're doing, but to I'd say John Yet. The poppins sizzle. There was a time in my life and I. Recall going to the store. We see the no frills brand. Nobody wanted that at the time, the black and white looking pitches. So I think the pen maker right? You can't just depend maker, but if the pop sizzle make a difference, get people to notice you in be different, and then your marketing that in telegraphing that to the community and building I'd like say John I'm a firm Believer Nah. Some getting a smile before you get sale. Yeah. Yeah and I think I. Really liked the fact that you said you act locally or things smaller I. DO think a lot of people think. Oh i. just do this. You know I'm not I'm not one of those fancy people on TV. And I really think it. I think it I talked to business owners all the time. It's if you're going to be the choice if you're going to charge more. Than than your competitors, you know there's got to be that celebrity, or we might even call it authority or expertise. You know you've gotta be note. in a way and I think that that can be done in very small way, can't it? Absolutely I think that as you said expertise? Yes, you could be expert. No, you have to. We should be that in some way, but it could be. Everybody gets to know you as the guy or the guy who wears purple shoes. That's a little trite example, but that's kind of what it is. Authors are dozen. Yeah, ours, our dime! A dozen speakers, our dime a dozen. How can Ramon John? Whoever's listening to us? How can you make a difference and be more known that people will say Ha? We have a choice of two to three people. Let's pick johnny because his glasses look like Vinnie and of course, she's a nice person has great content. But but I want to reiterate that point a lot of times. The price goes down the list a little bit. You know that that if if it's like I, want that person or I've heard everybody's Byron that person or that person does something that just different you know. It's like even a product that we get hooked on. We'll pay a little more. Because that's that's you know speaking us is telling US historic? So you mentioned speaking and you mentioned books. Do. We need to have one of those if we're going to be one of these celebrity. Greek when my playbook I, think so I. Think there's about five things John that are important. Probably forget what the five or seven are but I think that you could be an average business owner. Let's go back to the. SNAPPLE, but will use it unless you can think of a better one I'm. The ten Baker I have my operations in my process. My business like everybody else and I believe a few things that are important I. Think a book helps a book for calling card. A Book I have one that you don't have one that means something to I'm a believer in having events. I think some sort of event whether to show like this in person which I won't get into now, but some sort of event is important. Three strong social media presence for I think you have you should. Should have some amount of third party a visibility in press whether it's the traditional. I've been on ox ABC. CNN or I'm on John John podcast. So I think that's four things like that. John as you're going up to tear being a celebrity CEO and I know you've done all those tears. I've done all of them. That's what it takes and sustained to be well known in the market, so I think yes, a book is a must. No, but I think it adds that authority that feather in the cap that's important on the journey of solidifying being the celebrity. Oh. Yeah I I suspect it doesn't mean. As much as it used to in some ways, because it's gotten so much easier to public so many, so many publishers are putting out books. But I still think for for the person who takes the time to pick up that book and read it now suddenly. They're having a conversation with you. The author and I think that goes a long way. Sort of the cachet of the book it's just it's like if somebody's GonNa take the time to read the book, they're going to have a deep dive in your mind. And, that's that's a pretty effective sales call. So. You and I we talked about when we started this. Known each other at least ten twelve fifteen years, but tell me a little bit about your path I know you've had numerous businesses your and sold a couple so. What was your path I think you're younger than me, but you've been doing years I'm almost fifty. So? What's what's kind of in your journey as? I was born in the Mid West to great parents small little town. You know cows, just a few feet away, probably not on a farm, but it'd mid West USA and but the the summary of the journey John Listen I was spent a number of years after I graduated from high school at the United Nations. which some people don't know I know you know. Spit up some time I. Think you know at the United? Nations and I was there for A. A number of years while they're John. I started two or three. My Company's small technology consulting business just me Solo business I dissolve that started my small business dot, com blog which I last year, but started that and that really started this entrepreneurial journey and I'm a reader. John Reading, your books duct tape marketing at some point of that. Journey Reading Inc magazine Entrepreneur I give credit just reading. And so being there until I was fired, John fired because I wasn't you. You have to get permission to be an entrepreneur at the N. I had permission was taken away bottom when I was fired or resigned. And that launched me into full-time entrepreneurship where I had to make it work today as you know my I, don't have clients like working directly. People think that, but my high gets make. My living is working with large brands to produce events and do a influence in marketing. So that's the summary People. Don't know how I make my living. Yeah, so so tell me a little bit about selling the blog did that go to somebody who is in the space or somebody that just wanted to have? Somebody in this makes me. This is somebody who you know who you know. Many people have their building platforms. They ten thirty blogs and get the Seo the traffic domain rain all those things that you know better than all of us, and so that's what it was. They approach me through mutual friend Ramon. was you like we would pay some cash to have this? And I said yes, so from because for me. John I really wanted to get as you know through smart hustle in the entrepreneurial space and for me. It's really about I've thought going to be big company acts, Margaret or Beach I. Say this lovingly Grand Cardona, so you know. What am I going to be one of these were. I'm happy being Ramon I got my little team I've we have a nice book of clients I reach a few thousand people every week, and I'm happy. L. Of a great life me and my wife can travel and I'm happy with that. So smart hustled my vehicle today to educate entrepreneurs and amplify. That's what I did. So Obviously, this is an audio. You go to the show notes. You're going to see a picture of Ramon and you're GONNA see. The remote is a beautiful black man and. An entrepreneur and so I'm GONNA. Give you the Marvin. Gaye question. What is going on right now? Here's what I think is going on John Nutshell. Clearly George Floyd was was killed, unjustly murdered by the police officer who put his knee on his neck. We know that right right right right, and I think what's going on John I think that the few things and obviously brief hard encapsulated a few words, but I think that there's a rage. A An anger by many in the black community and more white people were marching to others and more. That's highlighting the disparity between black and white in America. And again I'm not going to give a whole history lesson here, but as we all know Slavery Hundred Years, Jim Crow Laws, discrimination movies, putting blacks, and not so good light all these things it just causes discrimination we we may seem pretty good little video that shows of being John on race and they say Ramon you can start John. We're going to put weight on you and. Hold. You back a it. Out so I, think John. This has opened up a scab of American people seeing that video seeing the anger and I think now. Thankfully, it's called the dialogue because a lot of politics involved this side that side. Thinks the issue of people recognizing were all biased and a particular talking about Black America. Door, context, discrimination and bias, and how can we all be better? People more empathetic people to recognize that John has? Biases Ramon has biases. And how can we all work together to make that right especially talking about black lives today it's this focus today. How do We all do every day to kind of as it. Were that right as best we can. This podcast is brought to you by Clovio. The growth marketing platform most recommended by other business leaders in uncertain times, supporting your community and growing relationships with your customers as a strategy that will be appreciated, remembered and shared in good times and bad open. An empathetic communication with your customers is key email is and always will be one of the best channels for delivering these communications. visit, clovio. Dot Com slash duct tape to schedule a demo. That's K. L. A. V. I. Y. O. dot com slash duct tape. So I'm I'm interested as a longtime entrepreneur. Sure if you and maybe this'll be through the lens of the Rear View Mirror. Like behind you now in after thought do as an entrepreneur. Did you feel help? Have you ever felt held back? By or missed opportunities because you weren't Xyz yeah, it's an interesting question. I'll answer two ways in my wife has helped me actually see some things as we talked in the Green Room offline John I. do think there's a special DNA of entrepreneurs, so where I get punched in the face. I mean not notice it. I'll just be like okay. Let's keep moving because we are entrepreneurs you. Yeah so that's one I do want to recognize it because entrepreneur. We're special people, but yes, I. Think held back. I wouldn't say for me. Many have been so I can't speak for all black people in. Huge serious issue, but for me personally, yes, the things like going into the store. This happens often. John, especially, when I'm in my non speaker year. You know looking. or or things of that nature, and that's just a minor the smallest of thankfully because of how I grew up, my parents were etc. I haven't been on maybe more negative side of the law, but if I was then that's where things that happen to join floyd come out so the speaker discrimination for sure I've been given car keys John I was keynoting at an event in Brooklyn Golf Club. Begrudged the person John I. Don't think they woke up in the morning I'm a racist. They just going back to biases. He got it up as nice car I was standing the grass. Just looking rankles beautiful place, he can hit young man. How are you? Here's my keys and probably won't stay the whole time. Nice. But I'm like. Thank you, sir. Keys back. So, but but this this is I. Think the conversation that you and I could be friends, and and we're airing it. You know or in a hotel worker understanding again as you know you and I speak all over the world standing in hotels, just chilling in. Our bags. You know we'll meet you. Stop Stop, Stop Stop. Things like that both. And it's. You're saying in a funny way. It's a sad thing that that by those vices happened, but I think the point you made earlier. That has an entrepreneur. You you've may be developed a really good muscle for reframing. Those things of and you know other people either can't or don't have that luxury, and what's funny is and I am really trying to keep this about. A entrepreneurs, because that's my Lane I. Mean a you and I talked about I'd love to change the world, but you know. I've got like a certain amount of influence. And I think that as entrepreneurial white entrepreneurs, a lot of the same thing that I think is occurring to them is that they don't realize that goes on, because never happened to them. Right. Now, and and they were. You know they've been invited into the thing and know that nobody's ever made them Feld. Not Welcome and whatever you know goes on, and so I think that there's a learning from from both sides of that that can happen and I'm hoping. The dialogues like this many many more. That can come you know. We'll get people to just start actually. Realizing that this exists and can can start taking pass if I'm sure there's this happened to you because you have so many friends around. The country around the world that I'm sure a lot of people come to you and said Hey ramone. What can I do this How would you answer that? What what as an entrepreneur you know not let? Let's take all the other political stuff aside as an entrepreneur, you know. What are some things that that that? Business owners of any. Size shape and color. Could, and should be doing I think a few things. I think those who have employees. I think just the open week. Watcher employs not uncomfortable crazy way it could be private. It could be public and I leave that to. However you want business, reach listen. Thanks for being here. How can I help? How can I help? I would stop there because I can go on. But how can I help? I think that's one if you have employees as. I think as you and I kind of a team, but you know we're sitting in front of our home at our computers I. Think it's just being where you know what take duct tape marketing. Wow I've had five hundred guests in the past five years jobs, not a bad person. John but we have always. We go with those we now same. Thing the second thing I would say probably the best thing just in a simplest way. Let me just realize you know what I haven't talked to Jenny so long I so those are some things where and that we try to uplift others and I think that we're willing to check ourselves and the third thing. I'll say John and I heard. This is I've been exploring. My own conversations is that we're willing to listen? Sometimes I heard a friend of Mine Dana White Talk on an interview. She was at and I. Think she said sometimes people could justify see Johnny listen what you do, your journal wasn't so cool. Ramona didn't. I could be wrong, but it's okay for. Twenty four hours, and so you know. Yeah I could've said that better. In obviously you and I have a lot of trust. and. That takes time sometimes to develop, but you know I would. I would tell people you know. Especially you know a lot of just you know. I'm picking on US white people, but you know just unknowing. I. Mean You got just start having these conversations say Ramon, you know. What have I been doing wrong? Or what have I not noticed? Or who could you introduce me to? And just like? Let's get over it. Let's not make those uncomfortable conversations. She now let's let's just say hey. I want to do better. You want to do better. How can we do that? Attract? That's right. I think the other thing. Is that just as you said I think to? Just we're aware of it into into open other pools to. To be able to say listen I'm going to choose today to go do this. I'M GONNA. Choose today to go in this door. I'M GONNA choose to hang out with this group I'm GonNa Choose to ask these questions. I think that's another thing. I think it's very important. More people who are wear the more willing to have the conversation Oh and the other thing I would say especially to my white friends in particular I would say that. John's Greg Guy John here something by an idiot. Well are not to say. Listen Joe Whatever it is. That's not cool are you shouldn't do or whatever you know so I think that's. Dr He's not meeting political, but just that was we all SAR. If one office would have said listen, it's he. He passed out tickets. Take, let's go. Let's go with US I. It would have been different if they would have said nothing. So. Yeah Good Great Greg Grade Point all right so a. where do we go from here? Yeah, I think it's a big question. I think the. Coming upon those of us who are black, American or minority? As it were as it were I, think it's important for us to say yes. When you ask me, Ramon I love to talk. I could have said no, but no I. I have to say yes, and talk expect. To it each with people we trust you know we know have a good heart and I think three I would say that listen. John I think the number one thing. Let's all be more empathetic as entrepreneurs. Let's all be on. That were on the the groups were in. We're on the entrepreneur this to entrepreneur the small business this mob is that him listen. There's three of us here. Let me let me ask. Ramon. For referral. Maybe thought Ramon. Ramon listen. We're having a panel I'd love to get some other perspective. Can you guide me because I don't know Ramon I? Don't know and I want to do better. Yeah and I, and I think that's a really great point. Because you know, there are certain industries certain parts of the world. You know that that you you know you almost have to. Well, you do have to be intentional about bringing more diversity. I mean it's just a fact. And so you're right. I mean that's certainly something that I plan to do in listeners you can. You can expect that for me. long long-term, so ramone great catching up with you hopefully. next time we're we can all get out there on the road again. We can spend some time together. New Yorker wherever you are. You WanNa. Tell people can find out more about but you and what you're up to things and I appreciate one thing I did. Start at this education is is important for all of us, and if people want to check out Black Education Fund Dot Org Black Education Bundy dot org I be grateful, also personally remote dot, com, or smart, hustle dot com, but John has been great. Thank you for your leadership. Thanks for all you do and becks will be my friend man. Thank. Thank you so much for stopping by you. Take your.
Great Reviews Provide Proof That You Keep Your Promises
"This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast is brought to you by less annoying crm. It's a simple contact and lead manager built from the ground up for small. Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape. Marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. I'm going to do a solo show. It's been a little while since I've done that I hear from lots of you that you enjoy the Selah shows. So let's do one today I'm GonNa talk about online reviews you know those little Google five star and facebook five star reviews that we all covered I mean this become a crucial part of marketing these days. I mean, let's face it. When we go to make a purchase, the presence of a lot of great reviews I think provides a layer of proof that that maybe that business is somebody we want to do business with. But often overlooked in my opinion. And the obsession for the five star reviews is the actual words used by the reviewer. See a five star review often implies that this is an ideal customer I mean they had the right problem you solved at wonderfully they had a great experience. Then they voluntarily turned to a third party review site like Google or facebook or yelp and told the world how great you're, and frankly some of those sites aren't that easy to navigate. So they had to put in a little work and. To me that's like referring your business to anyone who cares to read the reviews and of course. Total strangers now are reading those reviews and putting a lot of stock in them. Now. You want more ideal clients don't you? Well here's the real point I. WanNa make today. If you want more customers like like the ones that are leaving great views. Pay Very close attention to how those reviewers talk about your business, the words and phrases that show up repeatedly if you've got thirty or forty five star reviews, I can almost guarantee you that there are going to be some phrases and words that show up repeatedly and there's golden those phrases I mean it's essentially your best customers telling you over and over again exactly what it is that you do. That solves the real problem. They have and I've said this numerous times I mean nobody cares what we sell or the benefits or features. They want the problem solved, and that's what they end up talking about when they have a great experience. Let me give you couple of real life examples. This is from a local business. And frankly I just grabbed the first five reviews that showed up and. These are some of the things that repeated they came and worked as scheduled and cleaned up nicely after it was done. The guys showed up on time and did a wonderful job. In the past we have dealt with people who don't show up or do a professional job everything was cleaned up. Very well. Did you hear pattern in any of that. I mean frankly is probably not even clear to you in fact I know it's not clear to you what service that business actually provides but I, think the clues to how they provided. Are. Obvious if I were working with that business the core message for that businesses something they should put up Above the fold on their website. First thing you see is. We promised to show up when we say and we will clean up everything before we leave. So it turns out. This is a this business is a tree service. But you see the real problems they're solving for their ideal customers ones that leave reviews had a great experience. It's so few people in the home services industry are organized enough. To offer appointment times and often leave a mess behind maybe you've had that experience yourself. But for this business has so many others that I've worked with over the years. Reviews now can be seen as a strategic marketing asset as much as a vehicle for social proof. If you start mining those reviews. For Core Message. That can become a tool to help you attract even more ideal client I mean it. It just goes to reason that people who really want somebody show on time and clean up the jobsite are people that are going to be your ideal clients. They might pay more for those. So imagine if you're actually saying that screaming that the top of your lungs at everywhere you go, you're going to attract people who that's more important than saving a few hundred bucks here there. So, turn your reviews on Google or facebook or really any industry specific review site Every industry now has we all know about Google and facebook and Yelp, but pretty much every industry has some sort of grading. Sites and and just start carefully reading. Your positive reviews now. If, you have a few negative reviews. They can tell you lot as well, but that's not what we're looking for right now but don't ignore them. Now. As you review, start noticing words, phrases, themes patterns. That are repeated. Again this is your customer explaining the problems that your company actually solve for them. The things that others that you do that others don't I mean these are the words, phrases and themes that you need to start using your marketing message. Right now I mean sometimes you'll discover. That you're happy customers simply love your people or your approach, and that's don't discount power. This could be as a message. Now in some cases, you'll uncover a complete and creative core message hidden inside of a review. Give me an example. A few years ago we were working with a subscription based lawn mowing service and actually they were in the south. and so. The south of the southern united, states and so. It was kind of a year round thing I mean Mo-, your route. So it was a weekly we're going to show up. That's a subscription based thing. So. This company. By the way, you think a lawn mowing services, maybe not the most professional. type of outfit. But now they they were very professional. Did a great job that could be relied on to do what they promised. But we kept finding. That their ideal customer expressed this as experiencing a moment of joy in an otherwise hectic world. I mean that's Kind of magic right when. When you're, you're thinking this commodity based? Low Low profile kind of service. That that's that's actually providing joy so. You you'll find this all the time in. This may sound a little goofy to some of you know what your businesses but. We can we read this over and over again? They're reviews. that. Their these were word for word. Coming out and after calling through their reviews. We saw this like three times I just love coming home on Mowing Day. So these were busy professionals everybody in the house worked would come home and Wa the grass the yard just looked lovely. So. In addition to being very prompt and being reliable and being trustworthy and professional and communicating what they were doing. We. Changed their message entire message or their tire promised to. You'll love coming home on mowing day. So. Again I, think the idea there was the the this promise. kind of begging other prospects to wonder we'll Gosh I come. That's not true of my current service. So it's not always I mean, in some cases just very to the point we do this and you'll love it solves this problem we show up when we say we're going to that solves that problem but in other times, there can be creative elements to this as well. So this so you don't discount something if your customers are saying it over and over again, there's gotta be the probably is something very much to that. And now let's hear from our sponsor less annoying crm. It's simple contacted lead manager built from the ground up for small business you can manage your contacts, leads notes, calendar, do's and Moore's. All from one simple web APP less annoying CRM is focused on three core principles, simplicity affordability, and outstanding customer service, and as a benefit you're gonNA get sixty days of unlimited free trial so you could test it out every aspect of. Check out the link in the show notes at less annoying Sierra dot com slash low slash duct tape marketing. So thinking terms of using your reviews to develop a core message of difference. One that you know press the offers precisely what your ideal customer value. and. That's how you turn a review into a powerful marketing strategy but you can also use, and often we do this. We may find a handful of recurring themes. They might not make a great core message, but they actually might make a great topic for a blog post. They might. You might start working them into your Faq's if if people are experiencing some sort of sprott surprise or something, they didn't expect that's what they're often putting into their. Their reviews when they're talking about problems many cases. Email subject lines came imagine do you enjoy coming home on mowing day as the subject line I mean that's that's certainly fair game for that. Saddam. Don't you think of this as only one purpose I think ru culling over your views and pulling out themes and words and phrases. It's great for ad copy. It's great for your Google ads. You know if if you're running Google ads. There's probably a good chance that you should be McCullough through your reviews. To find good and bad things that you might actually put into your ads. So it's all about using the words of your ideal customers to attract more of the same and sometimes those words they're they're describing your service or they're describing what you do maybe in different ways than you would because after all year in the industry used industry jargon. So you know just just go through those spent some time. Every time you get one and analyze them or certainly if you've not done that. In the past, make it a project that you do to start thinking about? Your core strategic message that that again I I've said it about five times but Using the words that your ideal clients use is a great way to attract more audio clients now, one last. Now that you've got this review thing. I'm going to expand it a bit studying reviews is also an amazing for competitive research. Because your competitors good reviews, bad reviews you know we both they're they're you know negative and positive reviews, the kind of find themes in them as well. So, these can provide a sales advantage. So if if A competitor is getting. Repeatedly kind of negative reviews about some aspect of their business. That can be something that you would sell against It might also if they're getting great reviews, you might also think wow. All their customers are talking about timeliness or you know some little thing you know maybe we should. Either do a better job of that or maybe that's something we could communicate as well. So reviews. And the words that contain are much more than social proof. They're amazing content. And a path to better messaging in your marketing in general so That is it for day you know that I love those reviews if you WANNA turn to. I tunes or spotify or any of those places that you happen to listen to this podcast. I would love it. If you tell me what you think if you've been a longtime listener would love if you told me that always your feel free to write to me at John at duct tape marketing dot com. If you ever wanted to discuss marketing or anything I, talk about on this show. All right. That's all be well.
The Keys to Good Marketing for Hiring
"This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by. Wp boost dot net. If you care about speed and conversion and seo of your website or your clients websites than you'd better check out w. p. boost dot net. Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct. Tape marketing podcast. This is john jansen. My guest today is naked guja. He's a content creator brand marketer at job portrait's and he's also. The author of nate is learning newsletter by about and four professional. People people so nate to thanks for joining me. Thanks so much for having me this is. This is a great honour. So let's just start with. What are people people who are people. Yeah people people you know that that is now expanding i think. As like organizational culture is becoming more of a top of mind subject Especially with the world that we live in now. People are really thinking about how organizations treat their people And so. I think like you know this started as something that. Hr paid attention to trickle down to talent acquisition in recruiting and i think now across the board function leaders hiring managers and employees are are becoming. They're all people people it's just it's it's It's who we looked to when we're looking at the companies that we wanna work with and be part of like it's just there's a lot of pieces now to it so it's not just it's not just a rebranding of of hr right. I mean it. It's like you have a at the c. level. You have head of people right. I mean that that may be as you mentioned the word culture. I mean as may be seen as like hr is is a function still But the the head of people may be as is much more of a global kind of almost like. How are we doing kind of officer. You know it is. I just just to say to. I'm happy that. Hr is rebranding people. I think it's just like modern terminology. That just it i think. Hr has been boxed in to a to a role in a perception of that role for far too long. But you know. But if i look at like The things that i talk about the people who care about the things. I talk about The audience is pretty wide. And i've noticed that even even people in the product world in engineering and and you know roles that you wouldn't think normally care about this are really starting to like to pay attention to what's happening in on that side of the of the company so you wrote a you write frequently about but i picked up on read fairly recent posts using the term. Branding i wonder if you could. I know that big companies and small companies may look at those two things or though that that term in different ways But i wonder if there's first off you can unpack a little bit but also Maybe a let's talk about it a little bit in terms of maybe small businesses to yeah. Yeah sure and you're right. I think vary a little bit depending on the size and the maturity of the organization but But generally speaking. It's it's the perception that both employees and job candidates have of what it's like to work at your company and i think I think the most important thing to realize is that that perception exists regardless of what you do in there and now employer. Branding is an is an effort to to influence that perception and it's not to influence it in in a negative way or manipulative way. But it's really to to help position yourself as an employer of choice We can talk about ways to do that. But that's really what it comes down to. And i think that what thing i wanted to add to is that now. The employee side is extremely important. Because there's a lot of ways for us to talk and share and so employer branding for a long time was like. How do we market ourselves to candidates in. There has to be like close attention paid to. How do we market ourselves back to our employees as well because they are really the influencers that drive a lot of this ultimately am the harking back to the early days of social media when all these companies had social media policies. It's like it's like you had to go through legal to tweet of an it. Seems like those doors have been pretty much blown off. I mean that's a little bit of what you're alluding to is that there's lots of ways for people to shape the brand if you will he. Yes and there are still some antiquated policies. That have been reviewed in a long time. And i get messages from from people on especially on linked in which is where most active that say along the lines of. I wish i could do this right. But i'm handcuffed by my company and it makes me. It's mind boggling to me but But they do still exist. So when you when when you talk about branding period. Any kind of branding lead times. You're so right. I mean it is what the the collective market perceives not. What you put out there And and so is Is there an attempt by some detect this concept and say okay. What what do we want. You know the market to believe our brand our employer. You know. Branding is i mean. Is it possible. Do people get really tripped up. I guess as my main thing saying that they try to try to actually make it something that might not be yes And it's easy to do. It's easy to just show the shiny stuff the good side all all the great things. But there's an approach that i'm a big advocate. For which is this idea of attract and repel if you wanna think. Think of that way And you know a lot of this stuff has been around on the sales marketing side. It's just marketing right. Yeah it really wasn't employer. Branding is is. Let's say they've arrived late to the party. So this stuff is like trickling triclean employer branding. And it's one of these things where it's like especially depending on the types of candidates that you're looking to attract more senior level especially big they'll be s a mile away and they wanna know like what are what are the unique challenges. How does leadership think like what what is most relevant and relatable and they think it's really really important to push hard on the truth because volume when it comes down to volume for recruiting team. It's the enemy of recorded. it's just that you do. You actually don't want volume you want people who initially resonate with this with your message good and bad and one op themselves in because that leads to more productive conversations higher conversions. Now we're talking marketing again. You know it's like it but that's really the name of the game and so Positioning yourself as the fun. Whatever kind of organization just isn't working anymore. It's it's really now coming down to like real talk and that's what people are looking for so so i hear you kind of stay in the good and the bad particularly at a higher level. It's like what really are the challenges here. Not the not not the marketing speak. I mean where you know. Where might we fail is actually message that you can put it. Is you know one question that we ask when we're interviewing because a lot of the work that we do we actually get paid ask really good questions ultimately at turned that into content and One of our most favorite questions is When we're writing profiles on employees or leadership is fast forward. Two years in the organization is dead. Why did it fail. And that's a hard question but at the same time it draws out the things that are challenging right now and and you know you can really rally people around. That kind of stuff is there. There's there's somebody who can be extremely motivated by that and those are the people that you want and there's somebody who might take pause and go you know what like maybe i need a different type of company and i can go find that and that's that's actually Apart yeah the report. So where do you see. Companies typically. Get this wrong. I mean they've you know they've gone to a seminar workshop and comeback. You know fired up with this new idea of employer branding. Where do they immediately go wrong. Yeah well there's generally speaking they go wrong on execution. And when i mean by that is lack of and the reason for that is especially like you know the world. That i live in mostly. When it comes to employer. Branding is is startups. Usually mid mid stage will say like you know raised a couple rounds hired a good amount of people but even for younger organizations employer. Branding is usually led by a team of one or very few who are also managing a of different responsibilities. And so but going back to your original question about people people this usually falls on on the laugh at somebody of a people person it might be. The head of people might be the head of talent it might be somebody in recruiting ops. Who is just really passionate about. This raises their hands. Let me let me take this on and give it try. It's employer brand. He doesn't have the built in credibility in awareness that marketing has organizations whereas a cmo will have a team and resources and budget and all of stuff to bring it to life. That's what they do employer. Branding doesn't have that yet. Most organizations and so they'll get excited about the ideas but when it comes to execution everything stops because there just isn't the resources and frankly they're just they're typically isn't the skill set to do it yourself and now a word from our sponsor. The website has become the hub of your business but if that website loads slowly people visitors. They won't tolerate that. And guess what neither will google. It's becoming an increasingly important factor in ranking or websites. How fast your site loads if you want to find out if you've got an issue with this if you want find out to fix this checkout. Wpg boost dot net and see if they can help you identify how to make your site load faster. That's wp boost dot net so are- shorter just talking about good marketing for hiring or is it more than that. That's exactly what we're talking about. I mean really i. That's the way i see it is it's Yeah i it just touches a different side of the organization and you know what now even now with the way that buyers are thinking and paying attention to this stuff because we have so many options as right there's only a few companies that are just like the option for the most part. We have a lot of options. And so we're weighing in this this cultural dynamic in our decision making as buyers and so i think there is just a lot of a lot of overlap between the two now between employer branding and corporate branding. But but i do think that's really what it comes down to so this might be a hard question without like going with an apple or google. You know as the answer that everybody would know are. There's some people that you think are doing this. Well yeah there are give you a couple smaller organizations that do this really well. One is Buffer if million with buffer are you. I was going to ask you a question at them. Because i think they do some things really interesting interesting so you know buffer. I'll tell you when you go to somebody's website or their career site read one of their culture blogs and get them. That's something really special you. They do it through their copywriting. You can feel the energy you know what it's like to be part of that team. They talk a lot about their remote work policies. They talk about their compensation plans. They talk about everything and you. You read it and you go. Oh this is so refreshing and you get who they are. And i think it's just their dna something that they're they're contriving. It's just who they are so they they do a really wonderful job. There's a let me see a couple of other companies that are doing a really good job. Oh there's an organization called tax jar. Which is they're fully remote team. They're based out of boston. I mean their tax software. It's like nothing sexy whatsoever. But they've they've started doing a really good job of of just putting out like authentic content. You know things like that. They put a lot in a lot of emphasis into it in their small team too. So i wanna come back to both of those examples But do you find that companies are actually able. I mean this is always the question with marketing and in since we're sort of talking about marking anyway you know. How do you tie to roi. I'm sure that's a question. So many people get a lot of times you got under several levels of it attracts the best people that all those kinds of things like how do you get. Roi at that but if somebody somebody's saying you know should we. Should we put resources into this You know. I like a lot of people. What's the how measured at least. That's the golden question really. Here's how i think about it. We we can talk about qualitatively and quantitatively when it comes to numbers. There's really only usually a couple of things that matter. And there's a lot of breadcrumbs that lead to that happening I think when it comes to employer branding especially for like mid to early stage companies. It is a talent acquisition lever. It is designed to drive quality candidates measuring quality is very difficult. That's that's that's very like qualitative. But i think if you look at conversions to me conversions meaning a hire a new hire the equivalent to marketings revenue. If you're just gonna like grab one thing right and then but then from there. I'll tell you what i actually think is most powerful and this takes a little bit of time so i just gave the number the the number and but i think ultimately it is how is how is what you're creating resonating with with your audience and the people who actually have that information or the recruiters recruiters are the greatest asset to employer brandy. And i think whoever's leading this should have a recurring meeting with recruiters who are using this to help to try to attract candidates to hear what can searching what they care about. Most what questions they're asking over and over again take that feedback turn it in content test. It get the feedback from the recruiters and repeat it. Because that's how you start creating for your audience and then the then the other aspect of it. There's one more part to it is every time you create something for an external audience. I think you should share it across the organization internally because you know we talked earlier about some of these like these. Big roadblocks that employer branding has internally. The biggest one is just a pure lack of awareness. The is new terminology that like people in my circle understanding get excited about but outside of our little bubble. Most people are going like what is this stuff you know when you can show something to people outside of your bubble and get them excited about it that starts getting buy in and supporting people. Oh that's why we need this on. That's why it makes sense. Yeah i think you just described effective internal communications in a bit. Because i think that some of these great examples you used buffer saugus straight to them. I mean i think a lot of what they share externally was stuff that just bubbled up in staff meetings Let that whole salary conversation. I have to believe that they shared that internally before they ever decided to make it public down to the actual number that people were getting paid. And i think that they probably got so much buying internally that they own as a good idea to sheriff's largest of just guessing but yet nope. I think you're i think you're You're spot on with that. I mean. I think there's a huge opportunity to just like i mean we. We talked so much on zoom in record. Now there's there's so many opportunities to just hit record during meetings. You're going to talk about something that other people might care about and clip it and share it. That's the kind of stuff we're looking for now and we're really set up well to do that. It's like some creative thinking but it's content marketing you know that's what it so we're talking about here. Does it take to sometimes. There's a what guts sometimes too. Though i mean another yeah in other words i would think there would be some companies. It would think oh. I'm sure that there were people. That were very turned off by buffers sharing of their salaries. And think that's terrible. I would never want you know. I would never do that. I would never want my company. Do that Now i think as it turns out on the whole. They got more kudos than they did. You know somebody is saying negatives but but for a lot of companies isn't that isn't that the issues like we want to be more transparent but like adler scared to. Yes that's what it comes down to. It's a fear thing. i mean we. We push every one of our clients to be transparent about compensation like when they when they post a job description to give a range give a number whatever and hardly any of them do it. 'cause it's fear right. It's like it's fair thing but But the thing is is like. That's a very major box that we need to check in order to know. If this is even worth the time if i you know it conceptually but man the mindset is like yeah it does it. It absolutely takes guts. I think the salary ones are really easy to pick on because it also means that you have to actually have a rationale behind how those numbers were figured and you have to hopefully be fair and equitable in what you're doing or at least be able to justify why you're doing what you're doing. I mean that's the bigger conversation. Is i mean there was something i don't know if you saw it That came out. Madonna a couple of months ago. Maybe it was the founder of coin base their silicon valley startup. Did you happen to see that. I did not okay. He posted about their new policy of basically no politics at work. You know i mean. He laid his case out and it was like. Hey if employees don't like this. We have severance packages lined up but this is the policy moving forward. He took a really hard stance. And you know he got a lot of flack but 'cause like in silicon valley. That's like something you would really never talk about. But we got a lot of a lot of kudos to as a founder. But i mean that's an example of somebody really putting themselves out there and i think as a result they had like sixty or eighty employees that have left. And i'm not saying like what i it's not about. The messaging is just about somebody. Who's like saying this is who we are. This is what i stand for you know and Definitely draws a line in san. We'll i. I think that i mean again. I think what we're really talking about his authenticity. So that's really who you are. You know that. Don't hide it in same with you know. You said that you think it's in buffers dna. I would guess because that one singular blog posts probably got shared about twenty million times That that that actually generated revenue for them by being authentic is even if it generated some negative comments I'm i'm guessing. Not only did it attract people to them. It attracted customers. I mean i would imagine. This isn't the first time that you and i have talked about buffer. I mean there's so much value in in this like peer to peer sharing of of names. I mean really there is. It's like that's like you. You can't buy that level of brand awareness. it's really yeah. But but i think you know even if even if i don't agree with you i think it's pro. I would definitely agree with the citing on being authentic. If it makes me if it makes somebody mad. i'd rather have you tell the truth. A you know and i and i think that's what people ask why i think people can respect that And are looking for that. And i think we're you know we were inching closer and closer to a lot of people accepting it. Yeah yeah we are. And i think you're right. We accept that what we don't accept is when you tell us something one way and then we get in and realize that it's not forwards far worse. Yeah so nate. To tell people where they can find out more about Where wherever you wanna send people maybe to Natives learning or any other resources they might follow in the. Continue this discussion with the shirt. So i am very active. On linked in natives. Learning is my newsletter. That is a replica. Of what i post on linked in. I realized that Realize the many months ago that a lot of content just gets lost in the busy business of the feed and i wanted to give people who care about my stuff a more convenient way and so natives learning is on sub stack. Which is the place to find it or you can find me on lincoln. I'm pretty active. Every we'll have we'll have links in the show notes for those that Would like to continue to donate to late. Thanks for somebody. That's a fun conversation. And hopefully we'll run into each other someday when people get back out there on the road. All right thanks appreciate it.
Growing Your Business With Integrity and Kindness
"This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by bat dot. I oh the ai. Powered all in one. Lead generation solution that leverages top performing strategies from over twelve thousand campaigns including email. Social outreach paper click retargeting and sales hello and welcome to another episode of the duct. Tape marketing podcast. This is john jansen. My guest today. Is sarah santa crochet. She is setting out to change a marketing paradigm. That we're going to talk about today. And for twelve years. She was running a successful lincoln consulting business which i suspect inspired a great deal of the work that goes into the gentle marketing revolution. Grow your business your way with integrity and kindness. Sarah thanks for joining me all the way from switzerland. Thanks so much. John for having me and i'm looking at your backdrop in. It reminds me of switzerland a lot. 'cause you're up in the mountains you just shared earlier absolutely so you're calling this book somewhat of a movement make remaking marketing change the current hyphen paradigm. Let's start with. What are some of your favorite that's tabloids asses but what are some of your favorite ways that marketing is broken. The favorite rates. Like what i think of when mark when i say marketing is broken in is that i believe we have lost touch with the human connection that we went down the tech rabbit hole and everything got more automated and started using more and more attack in. I'm not saying let's get rid of tech not at all but leads. Use it in a way that also brings in the human connection so that's one way the other ways the marketing since we lost a human connection got more and more pushy because we are not really talking to a human face anymore talking to the crowds and so marketers got more and more arrogant daring in a way and so i kept feeling to me that it got more and more pushy and more i actually called this movement i e e free marketing as i felt like marketing the way it is today was contributing to this ever increasing level of anxiety so from the consumers or customers perspective because we are receiving on the receiving end. We're feel like the marketing that we see and receive makes us feel less than it makes us feel like something is wrong with us. It makes us feel is broken in us. Enzo the marketers. Here's the solution in. You're really not doing it so you need this. Also from the other end from the mark there's end. It felt like a increased anxiety because we are presented as marketer guru. That has all the answers and so we need to do a dot way so i. It's interesting there's no question that social media email or our technology certainly that have amplified some of this but in some ways. Hasn't this form of marketing. You go back fifty years magazines and radio then television. It seems it seems like marketing in general has always been about you. Buy this product and you'll have a great life. I again as i said. I think it's amplified now an omni present but it's it feels like that sort of mark type of marketing spin around forever. It has and i think also has changed. Is that the. The customer has changed where the marketing hasn't maybe or has amplified but on the other hand. The customer got more conscious and so there is a misfit almost with the marketing now that hasn't changed so much or if it has changed towards the worst in the customer on the other hand has developed and has become more conscious wants to contribute to doing something good in the world and not just by products the products sake. So it's almost like things grew apart even more. You know one of the things that. I'm not trying to let people off the hook necessarily but i work with a lot of business owners. That really they don't come to marketing. Knowing anything about it necessarily they started an accounting firm or plumbing contractors. And that's what they know but they they have to get customers. And i think to a large degree some people just fall prey to the idea of. That's what i see other people doing. And that's what i'm going to do a perfect example. You had a lincoln consulting business. Talk about copycat. There must get ten to twelve pitches a day that are all very similar for people trying to use linked in as a way to to get front of people. So what do you say to that person. That says i just. I'm just doing what i see. Other people doing yeah. And i was one of those always start with that. And i'm like i was one of those. And that's why i have this breakdown. That led to a breakthrough and made me realize there needs to be a way to make people understand that they can give themselves permission to do marketing in a way. That feels good in. If what they're seeing out there does not feel good like using the templates over and over again and just copy pasting is that does not feel good. Then give yourself permission and do it. Your way not starts with finding out while who are you. What are your values. And what are you most. Yeah what's most important to you. You one of the challenges. I see quite often. Is that some of the things that that we all say we hate. The you go to buy a twenty nine dollar product before you can actually get the twenty nine dollars product. You have to go through three levels of upsells of other types of things the social proof but those things that's become really popular. Now you go onto a website. Every three seconds several pop bill just spot this susie just bought. This had the problem with some of those things i think is that they work to some degree. Maybe eighty percent of the world hates them but the other twenty percent are converted because of them. And i think that's the real challenge for a lot of people. Is that while they wanna make the right choice. What's right for them. I should say they're also afraid of not being effective in their marketing. How do you get by that. I would actually challenge the statement. They work because i would do. They an depends. What kind of business you have. If it's a quick fix kind of business so meaning you're selling something that people only by once in then that's it. They're gone right then. Maybe it works because yes they get you clients right away but if you're building sustainable business maybe a service based business may be a business where that's based on memberships or recurring revenue. Then it's really that first interaction with you that matters a lot if you're getting a bunch of clients who are coming to you in anxiety and feeling like oh i got a this now because this offer is gonna end in three minutes and coming with this kind of fear based thinking danny might not work for you and i agree completely. I'm not saying that i would condone. I just think that fee see a lot. You see the people making a lot of money on facebook in places like that selling garbage but just in a very aggressive way. And i think that that's the part that that is a challenge for people's because they see it working as you said they're seeing people give money but is it could make sleep at night. I certainly could. But i think that's the real challenge for a lot of people is that they feel like that's the only thing that works and i think the reason we have. This conversation is to make them think and make them become aware maybe that maybe they've been doing things like myself. That didn't doesn't actually feel good for them. And then i invite them to think maybe there's another way and then i think that's the key ingredient so if you're going to boil down what would you say. Is the cord difference of the gentle marketing approach as opposed to some of the negative things. We've been talking about. Yeah what i realized that for gentle marketers really actually starts with going on this inner journey and figuring out first who you are and what your values are in architecture always told. Who's your avatar. who's your ideal client and we go and look outside for our success. Where i'm saying if you really want to have this great time with your ideal clients and feel like they're getting you and you are aligned. Then you need to actually go inside. I and figure out. Well who am i. What my values. What's my world you. What are my stories and then bring more of that into your marketing because naturally we're talking a lot about purpose based marketing. Now naturally you'll be bringing in some of that so you're y your purpose you bring that into your marketing again. If you're just going what's my purpose and then let me market around that. Then that's seeking the answer outside again. The real work is going inside and figuring out. Who am i and then you'll go to. What's my purpose in all of that. So since you started down that path you want to describe because you do have a framework of for what you're going gentle marketing so you want to lay out the framework steps. Yeah in the book. I talk about three steps. Basically or three jer yet. Three steps to a journey. And that takes you through a labyrinth and i have three rs and those are rumble rise and resonate and rumble. Is that rumbling is cool and what's my purpose why am i in business anyway. Am i here to hustle. Or do i have a bigger mission in this world so really going deep inside so that you can then market from within the second hour is rise. So that's when you stand in the middle of the labyrinth and really rise above all the others in really. Allow yourself to be different than to hear that voice. That says that's who i am. And that's how i am different from other people and then you go and bring that message you really bring your worldview back into the world and that's where resonate comes in and you start to resonate with your ideal clients actually also give yourself permission to not be liked by everyone. I think that's a big your message of. We don't always here. We always think marketing means. Oh i have to get as many as possible in everyone. It's not true. actually not. Yeah yeah i think most successful businesses realized that if they can tune their business for a very specific market they are also then at the same time. Saying here's who's not for me. And i think that's i think that's actually more compelling message it is certainly more attractive message to the people that you are trying to attract so in some ways are we re just trying to be more human or is it really more about being Empathetic in your marketing as well. Yeah it's being. I think by being empathetic. We are being more human. They go together. And i think it's also about really. Yeah that idea of bringing more view more of your stories so that you connect on a different level. You're not just connecting through a product but you're connecting to a common worldview common values. So that's really what what this gentle marketing is about. It's coming from within and then connecting on a deeper level. now let's hear a word from our sponsor. Do you owe more leads and faster with a small to medium sized business or a marketing agency. Band dot is the solution for you. It's an ai powered. All in one lead generation solution that leverages email social outreach. Paper click retargeting sales chat bots if your marketing agency or consultancy looking to scale your offering and client base. They even offer a white label. Solution that allows you to fully customize and sell the platform as your own service. Find out more sign up today at band dot. I look forward link in the show notes so you are choosing to to launch your book in and really maybe your entire practice on the book via kickstarter. You explain how that process works how it went for you. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that are interested in earn. Have seen other people doing it. And jerry south worked for you and maybe unpack that force. Yeah obviously i istat with that for awhile. I'm like how does a gentle marker a gentle book launch not happy and pushy and so this idea of the kickstarter came to me. And i thought it's a great way to get momentum and get people involved and we're always talking about get this hundred people who are really committed and start with those and that's really what i wanted to create with the kickstarter in iran that in in december of twenty twenty and it was great timing because it was the energy started to shift and people are like. Yeah we need more gentlemen the business world and so it was a great experience because i felt like i'm not just pushing my book out there. I'm really a creating a movement and so in the end. I got hundred and eleven people who are committed to that in so yeah. It was a great experience. I highly recommend it if you have yet. Whether it's a book or a product that you want to launch. I would also say don't expect millions. I had three thousand dollar goal. And we we funded that fully three days so that was great. But i think it's one thing to expect a three million dollar goal to to fund that within thirty days usually thirty days for the kickstarter but highly recommended yes. I'm glad you mentioned that. Because i think a lot of people do see the stories of course get all. The publicity are these. Somebody put up. Tina butter and jelly sandwich on kickstarter and raised ten million dollars in. I think people do need to realize that it could be something that that that can certainly be used with. Very modest goals. Can't exactly yeah. Yeah it's again even kickstarter. I was surprised because you hear good things about the kickstarter community in the founders. And and even there. I felt their overselling. They're staying again with those big stories in your leg. Oh my god. I don't know what to expect. Maybe i'll be like making on. No it's start small and then maybe if you run it ten times you'll get the big bucks so since you have the word revolution in the title of your book. What are your continued plans for turning this into a movement. Yeah maybe what. I also wanna share is why a revolution because sometimes people tell me why a revolution. It's not like it's something completely different and i think a it's because yeah we need to get back to it and so that's some in some way Revolutions get back to you empathy and kindness in the human connection but also it has to do partly with my upbringing. I grew up in a Hippie commune my parents and their and some friends spot an apartment building together. And so i grew up in this revolution. Revolutionary way to me that's also coming full circle and building really a community around the idea and not just yet putting a message out there. So it's it's really. I think we create change in a community. And that's my plan with the books. The i'm starting or have started last year. Community called the gentle business circle in. So that's helping us together with the book and whatever else you really be mindful of how do we now create this change. How do we bring more empathy and kindness to the business world into marketing so when she share with people where they can find out more about to your work with the invite people to circle in where they can find your book. Yes thank you said. The book is. I'm self publishing. So it's available on amazon. Just check for the gentle marketing revolution. You can also go over to my website that gentle marketing revolution dot com slash book or my main site at sarah's croce dot com. And if you hit forward slash circle then you can find out more about the gentle business. Circle also sarah. Thanks for joining us sir today in. Hopefully we'll run into each other. Someday when we get back out there on the road again yes thank you john. Thanks so much for having.
Making Brands More Human
"Welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing. Podcast this is john jansen. My guest today is jacqueline lieberman. She's a former managing partner in the head of strategy for story worldwide and the founder of brand crew does so i guess we're gonna talk about brands today so jacqueline thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. John so i always like to get kind of to deeper than the tagline. Shall we say when. I talked to people about branding. One of the things said that you are talking about is making human pudding purpose into practice. I'd love it if you would take that beyond the tekla. Oh sure why. I mean i think one of the things one of my goals is really when i say i wanna make brands more human as when i think about brands. Brands are really people's introduction and their way to interact with companies. So that's what a brand is to people so the more human that that brand is the better that interactions going to be so all the beloved brands that are out there. Those are the ones that really just behave like a human being conscious. They have a point of view. They have a soul so so i think that's that's what i try and help my clients to do but they're also probably telltale signs are also able to communicate that effectively and deliver on it effectively and people experience that it's not enough to just have that soul as it exactly exactly have to practice what you preach. You can't just say they cannot just be nice phrase on the lobby wall. You actually have to walk the walk. So i work with a lot of small business owners and have over the years and if i mentioned the sometimes called the b word. Because they're they're almost like. Oh i don't have a brand. That's nice for big product. Companies in my contention is every business has a brand. Because it's it's really just the collective perception of the people that you come into contact with good bad or indifferent so so where do you fall on companies kind of ignoring that idea. Well i mean. I think even even those owners their brands their personal brand snus walking around embodying. So so even if it's their company and just because they might have a business name doesn't mean that they're not a brand because they're associated with when they when somebody here's the name of that company somebody is going to have a gut feeling about that that company and so whether it's the the person's the founder's name on the wall or it happens to be a name that you just made up that has to resonate with people and So you have to really pay attention to that and have some care and attention to branding even small. So i want to get into some specifics but i will tell you this time of year. A lot of people are watching. football Nfl fan at all but Playoff season a lot of people are at end of all. The ads are insurance. Companies that are basically communicating a brand. That has nothing to do with their product to progressive geico. Even state farm seems seems to be. The trend with insurance companies is is create personality. So we don't have to talk about products people don't really wanna buy anyway so so talk a little bit about that as ineffective approach is it for everyone. Well i mean. I think so taking a chance. Just for an example. That's that's a tough. That's a tough market to be in right so talk about like a low interest category. We're not talking about automobiles that people look forward to having that purchase when that when our time comes so so taking that tact is is smart for insurance because they have to associate their brand with something that's positive because for insurance the flip side of insurance that you don't want to need it so the flip side is that there's some sort of disaster that has happened to you so they wanna make it a positive feeling and i think that that's exactly why all of those brands are taking the tax that they are but that said. I think that that's a lesson a of brands can can take. It doesn't matter lot of as you mentioned before all a small business. And i'm not a big brand but i think it doesn't matter what category you're in you can still create a brand around what you're doing because that has to resonate with people. That's the only way that you're going to be able to connect with people is is by doing that. I think particularly today there's so many channels and ways to reach consumers that take a lot of that's happened. I think brands and a lot of cases what go back twenty thirty forty years ago. I know you weren't around but it but for some of the brand was kind of the personality of your advertising. A lot of ways was was the brand. But now you go on you. Look at google reviews. They talk about rusty. The technician that came to their house did an amazing job in all of a sudden. That's the brand. So how how do you. How do you suggested Deal rather own word address the fact that there are so many channels and so much of the the brand in a lot of ways is certainly out of our control. Yeah and i think. Well i mean i know that martin new meyer famous author of the bragg gap he he basically says a brand is not what you say it is. It's what everybody else says. it has end. So that's really that's really what our brand is so looking at those reviews and that's the best social listening that a brand can do by the way is That's the best consumer insight. But i think in looking at brands. I usually the quickest one of the quick tools that i always give to any client and even on social media my social media feeds is saying if you think about a brand in terms of three spheres of legged think of a ben diagram of you have mind you have heart you have conscience and it's thinking about a brand is like in their mind. What's their point of view in the conscience. What's the sole. How do you want to be remembered in the heart. Is what are your non-negotiable beliefs. So insane those things in in when you're talking about and how to deal with reviews it's the reviews fit under one of those things right so it's like in our branch should respond is really about that. So if you're always thinking in the realm of that you have kind of those three facets of the brand it really dimensional is it and it gives you latitude to dial things up and down as you need to so you can still be agile and respond so it doesn't have to be just. Here's the advertising line it's like well. No what's our point of view about this or know. How do we help these people who are having the same problem in these reviews and so. I think it's just like an easy construct that people can really wrap their heads around. Even if they know nothing about branding marketing. I just kinda give that to them as a as a framework and it starts to lead people even non marketers down to a place of is How how do i think about my brand is conscience. And so got so you start getting into. What would the brand new yesterday right. we could use. That is the decision making. We need to get the result bands. Exactly that so when somebody calls you in. And i know that you i. I know that it's very common for a brands to have a marketing agency. That is really doing a lot of the tactics. A lot of the execution and they will typically sometimes call in a an outside or third party brand. Strategist what's generally going. A is about a five part question which generally going on when that happens. And then what's your process than for adding or i think used the word excavating as a as a as part of the process. So walk me through. What's going on when somebody finally does add. And then what do you do to try to turn the ship. Yeah well i mean a lot of times so unfortunately what happens is and i don't know why maybe you can tell me why in your opinion i'd love to hear what you think about it is. I don't know why. But there's when management there seems to be a change of management and it doesn't matter really what the level is but it's typically the senior level. They feel like they need to completely blow up the brand and start over and put their own point of view and their spin on it for the sake of doing something new and relevant. And i'm not saying that that being new relevant in in having a new marketing point of view is is the wrong way to go. Because usually there's a change in leadership there is a need for that change. But the the part that i that i always find so surprising is that they come in with no regard to the history of the brand the origin story of the brand so whether that origin was five years ago or fifty years ago or hundred years ago it doesn't matter every brand started for some reason it was some somebody thought of it. For reason there was a value there. So typically what happens is i've gotten called in now more more than i can count for that scenario where there's a change of a change. Of course. the rest of the team doesn't agree. The senior management wants to go in one direction. But then there's legacy people who feel like that they're that it's in their gut that it doesn't feel right and the need somebody. They need like a a third party to come in to just kind of almost do brand therapy to understand so the the excavating part is me. Talking to the ceo or the cmo and finding out. So tell me exactly. Why is it that you think that this part of the brand needs to change and very often. Those are the conversations. That's when i start pulling out really the reasons why because the reasons that there are titillating is actually not at all. And so when i start going in and asking those questions will tell me why and tell me a little bit more about that. And then i also will interview the other stakeholders the people who perhaps have been on board for a while. And i start to kind of marry those two worlds together and and that's really the beginning of the new brand foundation so it doesn't mean that we're forgetting the origin story and it doesn't mean that all we're talking about his legacy suck. It just means that we're creating a new foundation starting from a fresh place that has everybody's input at the table accents. Yeah absolutely but you could see the you could see the pressure. The internal pressure of the cmo just got fired. The move is not going to make any headway. By saying we're just gonna keep going down this path right to bring in kind of their ownership sort of a weird question but since we're talking about companies. What rule is politics internally. Play in and the mess that gets made. Yeah a lot It's a huge role. And i think a lot of a lot of my role i end up playing is i am the facilitator and i'm bringing all these worlds together in a way that allows them to all speak their mind in a safe place and an. I'm the one. So if i'm the one that's coming up the insight and playing back what i heard. Then there isn't. There are no enemies made because they can't argue really with me because it's like well. I'm saying well. This is what i heard. And so that's so i become like the facilitator the therapist the marriage counselor bringing everybody together but at the same point. I'm also constantly asking questions to mind while. Why and tell me more about that when you say your values are your trusted brand by the way everybody says. They're trusted brand. But tell me exactly why you think that. So that's really a lot of what my role is is to help. Get away from those politics and just kind of asked the right questions. How often do you get the chance to go deeper than marketing. So into sales into service into pretty much every facet because it's all part of the brand whether people people say it or not so how. How often do you get that opportunity. While when i do workshops i specifically asked for the attendees in the workshops to be all representatives from and i ask for give me somebody from sales gimme somebody from. Rnd somebody who sits customer service. I don't want all marketing people in that room. So i say if we have to make this a two part process than. Let's do it. But i do not want to have all marketing people in the room. Because because to your point a brand is made up of all different facets. It's not just with the marketing team. Trims up so i need to understand the points of view and very often a lot of that insight comes from the people not in the marketing department comes from the people on the frontlines of their people who are thinking about the brand and different ways. Referrals rarely happen. Because of good market and yet most businesses a significant part of their business comes by way of referral. Because somebody had a great experience up up because they saw a fun. add Do you have any examples that you don't necessarily have to use a concrete examples but jenny where a typical gaps happen and and almost like there's no internal communication in that's creating a bad experience. Yeah well i mean there's there's one where there's a a human legacy founder person who either no longer with the company and the company is struggling with how to tell that story so some struggle with do we tell it at all or some are struggling with. How do we tell it and then tell it in a new way. There's so that's That's typical problem. That that i tend to to face with with clients another is they. They have a really great mission statement and all of the players are all kind of singing out of the same hymn book so to speak except they don't know what to do with it so don't know like they know why they're there and they're really jazzed about working there but they don't have like that that statement that actually because it it tends to be mission also very long typically as opposed to like a purpose statement which could be very condensed in pithy. And you can remember it so really. The recall is really how people start to embody in their everyday. Life can remember what your mission is. Then it's like it's probably too long and wordy and you probably need to revisit it but the other part of it is taking that purpose into practice and and that really is going right down to at the hr level of like you need to put your purpose in your job postings. Make sure you're hiring the right culture. You need to put it in your performance reviews that everybody needs to be accountable for living the purpose and embodying it in your everyday jobs because if if you don't bring it down to that level than it really is just a nice statement and lobby yes interesting. I think they're growing consensus among organizations. That internal communications is actually work. Maybe starts yes so. You're cracking me a little bit about whether what you've seen or maybe how you sort of advise people on that. Yeah i mean. I think it's really because i mean i think it's the it's how people think about marketing. So people just think that marketing is this advertising box that you need to check in order to sell stuff but at the same point. It's really having a group of evangelist. Who believe in it inside. So that's why. When i talk about i came from the world of brand storytelling and of course i believe in brand storytelling but i also really started to think about and started my consulting around brand truth because no one can argue with. What's true so if you could really really believe it and believe it on the inside inside the walls. That's how the marketing really starts. Because then people are excited to be at work. They feel well compensated. They feel well respected and and it doesn't matter whether you're part of the marketing team. You are marketing for that company. Because you're happy being there so you're creating evangelists inside the walls and that's the first step of marketing right there while it's it's it's painful. Almost two cds companies that transparency is one of our core values in generally not transparency. That's she's my. I really think. That's the biggest disconnect is people. Sit around and come up with what should sound good. Rather than what like you said. What is yeah exactly. I mean it's very amina night. I could see why it happens. Because businesses they're myopically focused on the task at hand right in front of them and they're trying to just get through with a need to get through especially right now. Everybody is having a hard time in in all different ways but but you to at least be in the regular practice of going thirty thousand feet once in a while once a quarter once a year at least and start to look at your brand from that level and say. How're we really living. Our purpose isn't really trickling down. Is it something that we need to reevaluate. however we creating this world for the consumer. That's something that they wanna be in as opposed to us just selling messages. Twenty twenty one is still going to be your where i think. People are reeling from twenty twenty and so is there. Is there a message of trends or behaviors or things that people need to be aware of looking for of doing more of or doing less of or is it still. Is it really just a matter of beach ruin. Stay the course i mean. It's definitely be true. Stay the course. I mean for sure. What the pandemic has highlighted is really highlighted. The brands who did not if it were not already purpose driven it really highlighted the brand who were struggling with that. So it's like if you already know that and that's already part of your marketing then it's your ahead of the game and the reason why is because consumers are really out there. And they're looking for. They're looking for something like they're looking for a little glimmer of hope and optimism and that's what brands and companies give each other. And so if you're just giving platitudes and you're not really doing anything of substance than consumers are really going to look at that and they're making their choices. Because of that. And i think the brands were winning right. Now are the ones that are are really doing things that are that are real and not just marketing. Because they're trying to just hang on and survive they're meaningful in some way to their customers. Good way to look at so you have a podcast as well Called to tell people what they could expect if they tuned in sure of so. I've been told that it's Npr like in terms of in terms of the format. And i liked to have guests on. Who either have a great brand story to tell so. If it's a new up and coming brand or even a legacy brand. I liked to have brands on. Who have an authentic story and beginning that they wanna share and try to dissect that in a way that i extract insights that really if you're a planner if you're a creative designer Account person if you're listening to it you can apply those insights directly to your work. That's really what i'm trying to do is give people kind of like a marketing insights. One one that if you need if you have twenty minutes in your day and you wanna listen you can listen to that and extract and apply to your work also so you were told people were they can find out more about the brand crew. And you're listening. Yeah a so you can go to Dub dub dub brand crow dot com and on. There's a link to uncooked apple. Spotify anywhere you get to podcast but but yeah you can find everything. There on brand crude dot com awesome jacqueline pleasure spending time with us this afternoon and hopefully we can run into each other when we're back out there on the road wouldn't that be nice. That'd be great thanks so much.
How to Have a Successful Consulting Practice During Uncertainty
"This episode of the Duct Tape Marketing. Is brought to you by Clavijo. Flavio helps brands build relationships across any distance delivering email marketing moments. Your customers will appreciate. Remember share in good times and bad. It's all driven by real time. E commerce data. You can make sure every interaction feels more personal when you have a three hundred sixty degree view of customer, the grows. Possibilities are endless visit, clavier dot com slash duct tape to schedule a demo. That's K. A.. V. I. Y. O. Dot, com slash duct tape. Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen my guest. Today is Michael's the Persky. He is the CEO of consulting success author of a book by the same name consulting success as well as elite consulting, Mine and today we're GonNa talk about a New Book Act Now how successful consultants thrived during chaos and uncertainty so Michael? Thanks for joining. Joining me edge on a real pleasure to be with you so I signed a contract a couple of months ago for my next book, which is going to come out in the spring of two thousand twenty one so you had a little different path for act now obviously chaos and uncertainty was going on, and so you wrote a book about chaos and uncertainty was at. Three week process of a different way to write a book. Yeah I mean it's It was about by tuna three weeks from concept to by selling it and putting it out there. Has. Really, we move quickly. The way that I always approach things is not to try and attain perfection because I don't think it's possible, but rather to take action and so imperfect action and rallied the troops of six volumes in space that I knew. People like Joe Conroy off and Rita McGrath and Martin Lindstrom and John Willow Dory, Clark, and interviewed them about what they saw going on in the marketplace I had my own beliefs and what we were sharing with with clients, but I want here what some others were thinking as well and so we took those interviews in best practices and turned into a book to really help and support consultants all around the world and all different industries on what they can do now not only to magin survive, but but really set themselves up to thrive. And you know it's interesting. Of course there's been a lot of. A lot of people have kind of come into this space because they're trying to support their clients, their relationships and you know talk about what what can we do now? You know I'm struck by the fact that so much of it is what we should be doing all the time. Hundred era, and not so much like. Oh, now we need to do this now. We need to get closer to our customers. You know and I think sometimes. We get a little complacent. And so some of that happens, but that's you know. Even even I'll just share some of your strategy focus on opportunities instead of setbacks I. think that's great, entrepreneurial advice, no matter. No matter what you know focused on value creation on gratitude I mean. Obviously. You? Get this sort of shock and it's a great reminder, isn't it? I, think it is and. Really what this time has done for so many of us, giving US perspective and Often you business. People are found to be just working in their business rather than working on their business, and so I think the opportunity comes from what's going on in the world. Right now is that it's the world is slow down a little bit We all have a little more time to to breathe into. Think many of us have been in situations where we've been isolated by choice or otherwise, and so we have to kind of just things a little bit differently so as we have more time to think we can. Look at ways that we can just do things differently. And when we're just so busy working today in our businesses, those things know those kind fundamentals often get pushed to the side when you're trying to find some new technology or new opportunity, and so really these these basics are are as you mentioned. These are principles. These are things we should always be. Be Doing, but even more time like now, because so many are not doing anything. They're waiting for this to pass. They're hoping that somehow things will get better and they'll try and restart. They're not seeing is that if they just wait, it'll be harder for them to restart and so those that act now those that take action and look for ways to. Serve more value for their clients. Plant Seeds Right now for their business that can benefit them into the future really will repos rewards. One observation that I've made just in the folks that I've spoken with his who seemed to be people falling into camps, unfortunately, there certainly are businesses that were in the wrong place. Wrong time I mean they're you know they're hanging on? If if if they are you know, just you know. There's no question that that certain businesses got wiped out, but there are a lot of businesses i. see that that had very strong. Followings had very strong, were very community oriented? They had raving fans. in a lot of those businesses are seem to be saying. Now's the time to actually cement that relationship. Now's the time to actually do more as opposed to do less even as as hard as that sounds, I read an article from the two thousand nine recession in it was in Forbes or business review I think they said the companies that actually in the downturn kept their people invested in their people as opposed to cutting back. You know every dime. They could ones that actually came out better well, that's I mean. We brought onto new people into into our team in the last. Month and a half or so I feel like I'm working more at least kind of higher level of of intensity that I typically would because we're spending a lot more time with our clients, and it's not that we don't spend time with them before, but we've just added on additional things. Your more office hours more one one call I spent one Saturday morning for a walk in my neighborhood because it was allowed and there's no. No not people calling clients into say how're you doing? How's your family? And so I think this is the opportunity just to create more valuable relationships, not the time to ought to try and sell more right now. All of there is an opportunity for that. Because people are still buying, some people think no one's buying his people buying but this is the time to really just look at how you can add value for those. Those around you and so yes I am I feel that I'm working more? were investing more overdoing it because to me, businesses not short term game. It's not about how can you get rich quickly and you go lie on a beach? This is about creating value serving making an impact, and if you're committed to that for the long term than plant those seeds right now when the stock market went down, you know middle of. Of March while people were freaking out and wondering how much lower it could go, I was buying and I was buying because I've seen this before I. Know What happens, and that doesn't mean that it won't go down again in my nocco down even further than where it was, but I'm confident that when you look at history, right? There are some things that do repeat themselves. This is a cycle. is a terrible time main. Had found that lost their lives and it's it's sad, and that's tragic, but This is not a time to sit back and wait. This is time to look at. How can you add value? What opportunities are there around you and then to make the most of them? And I. Think one of the things that is probably not being said enough is is there's so many people change is a hard thing for a lot of people, and they really resist it, and so they don't do things that, maybe even in their best interest. You know because Oh don't. I'm comfortable. Right and I think that when you have this massive sort of upheaval, there's so many people now ready to say okay. I need to re imagine you know what I've been doing and I i. think there's opportunity in that. No matter what you're doing because there's so people that. That are willing now to do something that they were not willing to do six months ago. There's an illustration that we have in the book and it's a pair of glasses. and you know every day we all. We all have the stopped to make the same decision. It's you know. Are we gonNA look at and focus on the positive things in our lives? Today it'd be grateful, or are we going to be negative and try and find what's wrong with every situation every day we put on those those those lenses. And so that image in the illustration of the book really signifies that there's two kinds of people right now. You can choose to use this as an excuse not to do anything like Sam. Nothing's GonNa work. No one's buying you take action, or you can look at this and go. Will I'm GONNA, make the most of this Maybe I've been working in the corporate world for for many years and I'm and I would want to go off and get into the world of consulting or start a business or whatever it might be, and we've seen many people. Reach US doing that exact thing because they finally realized that you know stable nine to five job or the situation they were in. Really wasn't what they wanted, and so for some people this is this is a wakeup. Call and I think that if you are that kind of person where you're willing to find opportunities to focus on the positive to look at every situation, go okay. What can I do to make this? You know what I want it. want to be an just that side of it, and there's plenty of opportunity now more than has been. You know in quite some time. Unite both work with consultants and we've. We're talking off the air. We've seen a real uptick in interest in. Just what you described people saying what maybe now's the time, but one of the questions that that. Obviously. People want to start a business. They want to get customers. I think businesses that are stabled at half customers have found that okay, there is there is a ability to kind of do more to innovate, but what are you? What are you telling people now that want to start that business. You know because the environment for maybe going out. And networking and. Doing some of the things that we might do to get new business as a startup has got a little tougher. What are you telling? Those folks yeah I would agree with that. I think it's you know selling right now and making offers is not as easy as it was or not as call acceptable as it would have been three or four months ago. But where I, an amazing opportunity for people right now is to build their platform to start to position themselves as the Authority and expert that they wanna be seen. To focus on getting clear. Who is the ideal client that it really WANNA serve. How do I want to help them? What is the message that I want to put in front of them, and then to consistently provide value to those people so that even though they may not be buying in the next week or the next month when they are ready to buy when the time is right on the first person that they think about and everyone can do that and this is. Is a great opportunity to give to provide a lot of value to serve. We have one client in the medical space who you know working with different healthcare institutions. They're very busy, they're. They're buying a lot. Because they need a lot of help. they went. They went in with initial offer, just kind of work pro bono. It wasn't about hey. How can extract money from us? How can I serve you? How can add value very quickly? That healthcare association said to them listen. What you're doing with us is really great. We'd more help. you know in recognizing this knockin me for free, so help me put together a contract where we can engage you. In A in a paid program asks letter into a project for them. We had another client in the compensation and benefits space and they went in. There typical offer wasn't really getting much traction. Because at a higher price point, they've now lower that price point, but that doesn't mean that they're working the same on of hours or time for less money, it reduced extracted what they typically would have provided, so they're now doing less work right less intense, less involvement, but a lower price point, so it's still profitable for them, but by doing the by being flexible by finding. Of the same kind of offering or price point as they always would have been by kind of moving downstream. They were able to find, and now they have a lot of opportunity. They're making a lot of sales so as long as you're flexible, and you're open as long guitar, look us as with a long-term mindset, I think there's plenty of great opportunities to to come but the main thing is that you don't wait. You don't go no one's buying right now. I'm just GONNA. See how things pan out, and all may be considered. Know months down the road. Do it now. Because the season you plans today with people. and You keep nurturing and watering them and taking care of those scenes. They're going to turn to the know beautiful apple trees that will give you a fruit for hundreds of years, I think someone said an apple tree can take three or four years to actually bear bear edible fruit, but once you have it right, it'll. It'll last many years for you into the future, and and create a lot of wealth, so now's the time to be to be doing that. This podcast is brought to you by Cleo the growth marketing platform most recommended by other business leaders in uncertain time, supporting your community and growing relationships with your customers as a strategy that will be appreciated, remembered and shared in good times and bad, open and empathetic communication with your customers. Email is and always will be one of the best channels for delivering these communications. Visit Clovio, dot com slash duct tape to schedule a demo. That's K. L. A. V. I.. Y. O. dot com slash duct tape. So a lot of of authors speakers consultants have looked at this and said Gosh. My my kind of traditional path to revenue gone away, but there's virtual opportunities, so you're gonNA see a flood of flood over the next six months of people, creating courses and membership programs and. even doing just virtual paid events. How do you? How do you see people I mean? In many cases those folks should have had those other revenue streams. Prior to this, but how do you now see not just falling in for for somebody WHO's considering that? How do you just not fall into the heard? You know of people that are doing it. How do you? How do you stand out now? Because I think the bar is just going to get higher and higher edge, you start having Google's and facebook's and all those kind of companies coming into the virtual content, production and vents space. You know it's going to. It's going to raise the bar thing. Yeah I mean I'm less interested in the format and a much more interested in the value, and what I mean by that is as long as you stay focused and get clear through conversation and validation as to what is the real problem that your ideal client wants to solve? Then then you can come up with a creative unique format to address that specific problem so rather than to say I'm going to create a course, because other people are creating a course on i. put it out there. Trying get people to buy it hard sale, but if you folks on having conversations with real ideal buyers that are meaningful deep, you identify what is. Is the problem they have. What is the vow? They want? You know what what's what a success look for them. Then you can figure out. We'll okay she. We deliver that through a course through a series of online workshops. Should it be a webinar actually spoke to climb before jumping on with you here. John, who's in the mining, space and He's looking at also. How can he create more leverage in what he's doing? And so that isn't you know? Typically he would have gone onsite different place in the world working with these large mining companies well, that's not happening right now, but what he can still do as he can provide. The very kind of that, you would. Virtually he can look at how we can turn that into advisory Retainer type of ongoing work he can look at maybe. How does he do some training and workshops for those clients? But it's not about starting with just the format. It's more starting bouquet. What is a real problem? They're looking to solve and when you when you. You lead with that then. I think you connect better with the buyers because buyers then don't see you as just another person that has a course they see you as a person that really wants understand their business and has a solution that is right for them. Yeah, absolutely so. Do you think there are any you take any tactics in the marketing world that? That are maybe gonNA. Come out of this, you know. We started talking about the virtual meetings and things that they use. It will come out of this little stick. We'll certainly not me idea of of Webinars, but I think webinars on a smaller scale meaning. It's almost like A. Mini workshops that you can do live I think that's a really interesting opportunity. Where whether it's just one to one, or it's inviting a small group of people onto a little workshop that would look like a labrador, but it's same as you, and I can see each other right. Now's where recording us It would be zoom call where you have four six eight ten people, and it allows you to still be very intimate with those people I. Think I think that as a format to to engage people will really work and I think. I do believe we'll get back to networking I. Think we're going to be able to physically shake hands if we really want to and hopefully sanitized, but you know I think that those days will come back. It'll take some time. But to me, yeah, there's a on the technology side. That's where I see it. I'm not really seeing any new tactics and I think that's because I don't just focus so much on cactus Johnny I know you and I. We've been in this world for you know kind of this game of consulting helping others for for quite some time we've seen a lot of tactics love technologies, a lot of fads and trends come and go, but the entity it's about the fundamentals and to me. Those fundamentals haven't really changed. They probably won't change so much. Some of the delivery mechanism mechanisms might I spend more time focusing on on the fundamentals, and I do on the mechanisms. I think that I think that one of the I. Totally agree with you on that small kind of workshop thing because I think all of a sudden. You've got a whole bunch of behavior that's been created of people saying Oh. You know what? I can go on here for six hours. In as long as it's engaging as long as there's breakout rooms or some of the stuff that makes it breaks it up for me. You know this format works and I so I I would agree with you I think there's GonNa. Be Some some sort of repackaging of delivery. If you will on a lot of those things, let's talk a little bit about fees Do you see? Have you seen an upheaval in fees? Have you seen a real downward pressure on fees? Juries what what your take is on that. Yeah, both both ways so I think the main. The key thing here in the book is flexibility meaning that you know if your standard, let's just call it fifty thousand. I think it's wise for every console right now to look at what would an offer that would be five thousand. What would that look like? And then likewise what what? What would a half a million dollar offer look like so don't just think that okay. Just because we're in a time of of uncertainty and chaos, it means you have to reduce your feats that. That might make sense, but it also might make sense for you to look at. How can I create higher levels of intimacy and engagement and work more closely with with a certain group of people where I'm charging significantly more because the successful entrepreneur or or business, owner or people that are truly committed to to seeing a result their problem time, it's not money. Right you know people I think like you. John A little bit more. If we're going to get the result, we want sooner. Rather I don't want to necessarily read through a whole. You know big thing if I can. Just someone can use give me what I. What I what I need to know if I can pay a mentor or coach ever to get the help that I need to me, that's more valuable and so I think having that in considering what does a higher value higher price point offer, look like what is the lower value lower price plan looked like gives you more more breadth, but more opportunity to to have people connect and and find something that works for them, and just again. One thing to really of the distinction is if you do look. Look a lower price offer that should not be at the expense of your profitability. You need to look at again. Apply the eighty twenty concept and kind of rule that twenty percent of what you do you know provides eighty percent of the output. So what can you do? REMOVE INEFFICIENCIES I? Think now more than ever is a really great time to look at our businesses, and and we're doing and remove things that are inefficient so that we make our systems, we make our businesses make our process and make teams more efficient, more effective, and therefore you. If you're doing a lower priced offering the profitability on it, either remains the same or increases for you. Yeah ee, one of the past I've been advising people quite frankly is now might be a time to do less. So instead of chasing the you know the thousand different. You know shiny objects you know focusing on the sixth that actually make you money and do a better job there, because then you're going to attract a better client who you know is going to actually become a referral source, and and the bottom line is. You'RE GONNA actually. Get good at producing results for that client. As opposed to just chasing anybody who says they might pay. I think that this is a really great principle that going back. We said earlier we should be applying at all times, but we need a time like this to actually. Analyze a little bit and go. Yeah I get like why don't have ten different offerings, and you know where that all come from I've observed over the years John. Many people believe that you need to add to to scaler to grow right like more more helps you. In fact, less is more and complexity doesn't scale, and so we always see growth not through addition, but rather through subtraction. What can you take away? That is going to simplify your business, your offering your message, and in almost all cases that creates a better result. Awesome. When I go, can people find your latest book in just find out about the work you do their consulting success. Yeah, thanks much so act now available on Amazon. Kindle payback and also on audible, but if you want a free copy of digital book, you can go to consulting success dot com forward slash act now and there you can get a free copy of the full book in Digital Form or of course, the link us well to Amazon. Audible kind of stuff. You prefer one of those formats, but we're trying to make feels we can make an impact. Help people out until you get that for free like. Thanks for something by the podcasts, Michael and hopefully. WE'LL! Be Able to run into each other out there on the road when we can do that again while hike mountain or saying soon.
How to Update Your Website Policy When Laws Change
How to Optimize Your Work Performance
"This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by bat. Dot i o. The ai powered all in one lead generation solution that leverages top performing strategies from over twelve thousand campaigns including email social outreach paper click retargeting and sales chat bots hello welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is john jansen. My guest today is clare kamar. She helps busy professionals optimize their performance. She is a media. Contributor on productivity organization and work life integration. So i guess we're gonna talk about some pretty awesome stuff today. Welcome glare thank you. It seems to be universally relevant to whether you're an employee or an entrepreneur. I talked to both unkind of situations. So i i see a lot of of people writing about talking about speaking about this topic and it seems like it comes down to a lot of accent habits. Would you say that that is accurate or is that really just a very short way to to try to describe a very much more complex process. Well i think to to land on the right habits take some work and sometimes we're not there yet because we have to do some mindset shifting and beyond habits i liked to elevate them to rituals and the reason i choose ritual is because i think it brings a sense of honor to what we're doing what we're choosing to do rather than feeling like. I should do this or i should do that. I like to up level. The whole rudder around it yes so so. People should be a in the new year dependent when you're listening to this. I'm going to take a weight. Loss ritual it just makes it sound so so much kinder doesn't it. I hope so. There should be i think is a sense of needs to be a sense of and how our treating ourselves and then the things we do for other people too so i don't care if it's laundry or managing your crm effectively. This is all about respecting ourselves. What we can give to the world and then respecting our clients and trying to to give a service that we can be proud of. So let's start with what are some of the with regard to productivity. What are some of the biggest productivity killers. What how do people get bad habits. Right oh my gosh now. There's a lot of reasons things go sideways. I mean a lot of people will point the finger to technology. But i mean you know before they electronic age came about you would have had parents scolding. Their kids. Were having their nose in for too long. So we're we always have an appetite for other information we're curious being's right and so the the challenge with technology though is we've never had. We never had books kind of knock on our consciousness and say hey come back to me right now. We have technology. That's designed to be intrusive. I think when i signed up bird squad cast what we're on here. Do you allow notifications. No no i don't do you want them to know where i am. No so i think one of the biggest things can do to be effective in in holding true to priorities which work all its own to set our to set some boundaries of what comes in and doing our best to gracefully defend. Those boundaries is art. Just just this morning. My wife and i were having coffee chatting. She said oh. Will you order the sing on amazon. Then like twenty five minutes later. I was like oh where we still here talking to take. It sucks in. I was a something that took me about a minute because amazon makes it so easy to do Turned into a twenty minute thing. I think that. I mean is the answer to just find ways to limit our access to this. Technology is like a drug. There's a couple of strategies. I think one is to be very intentional about when you wait in the other is to interrupt yourself because it is designed to pull you and look at forbes as a as a communication news channel the number of pop-ups. They're interrupting their own article. Who the hope to derail you and keep you on the page longer and so you have to be you have to say it's like like anybody older knows you go into another room and you forget what you got there you end you go into a new browser window. Why did i come here. In the first place right could have been an intention. It's maybe even right that intention down to give yourself a reminder to say. I was here to actually answer the question that somebody sent me about my business and facebook to look at the latest notification which is where your is designed to go because there's a little icon reminding you. There's something new for you there and it's like candy and it could be a dopamine hit either so you i know get hired by individuals or to to coach individuals as well as teams. I mean do you have a bit of a like intervention sort of mode that that you start with kind of what. What does that process. Look like when you hire a coach to help you be more productive. And it's a good question because a lot of people will bring me in and they wanna talk symptoms right away. And i do because i meet the client where they are. And we dive into whatever's pressing. I think that's really important but what often happens is we have deeper discussions. And than learned about the context of their business environment. perhaps their physical space. Perhaps what's happening at home and that whole work life integration piece actually comes to bear so the last client. I work with to set. I'm not. I'm not getting the right things done at work. I'm not. I'm not getting enough done in a day. That's a big common of. I feel like i've been busy yet. I don't have anything to show for it. And so ultimately we ended up going backwards. And i combine three aspects icon. Combine all the productivity knowledge and best practices that. I've studied and bring that to bear. I also take some performance aspects so weight loss sleep movement all of that That has a lot to and making sure you show up at your best to be able to contribute. And then any executive coach will understand life. Coaching as a piece as well. And how you sculpture life is really important. And i like the word sculpt because it's as much as what you add as what you might need to take away so so. Do you have some routines. That and obviously but i suspect at least you try to get people to individualize their approach but are there some kind of common almost templates for how you would plan your day. You know how you would start your day that they're going to get you going right well. There's a few things that i think needs to be anchors in the day and i won't tell you where you should place them what i do recommend one. And if you can to ninety minute sessions to allow deep work so these are focused periods of work where the the the barriers are up. the notifications are off. Your phone is on silent. There's a sign on your door that says. Don't disturb me unless you're bleeding. There's there's some very clear indications and if you're working with a team you've let your team no these are i protected hours and after that i'm available and i have opened office hours and i wanted the engaging with you so i think the twenty four seven availability always on been is eroded the fact that we need to preserve our ability to get as new car would say deep work done so to me. It almost comes online. I m my most productive when i sat and evaluate priorities. Because you know. I have for years made my list every day of all the things i want to do. And it's really easy owes like. I'm going to do those three because i'm do those easy. No sweat right in. But important too. So but when i come in and i said you know what i'm only writing three things down if i get those three things done i've had a great day and but again i takes discipline of because a lot of times those things that are important. Maybe that true and we are. We are compelled by our interest. Nine nova things i liked to do. There's so to answer that question. The first one is. I like to up level our interest in the things that don't feel fine. Oh if it is either sometimes refer procrastinating because it's too complex and we need to figure how to break down just a know where to start to get comfortable with that the no the next first best step and then the other pieces of it's boring. How do you add some energy to it through playing a music track in the background. Setting yourself a timer to finding an accountability partner to go okay. I'm working on something boring. You're working on something boring to. Let's see how much we can get done. We'll check back in fifteen minutes. So there's some tricks to do that The other thing though is to is to sort of see if you can reframe it to be something again that that you understand the why the connection to why this is important than you can up level your commitment to it. I find when i have a long project A working on a book. Or something. I do i kind of go into a very loose. A pomodoro methods of the twenty five minutes and then my timer goes off. And then i take a and it it. Does i find the debt really helps. I don't find that works on a normal day but it really helps me. When i know i've got six seven hour stretch to do. That's a neat. So i think it's an interesting one to play with. Yeah it's twenty five minutes and then and then a break. I worry if it's something like writing and you need longer than twenty five minutes or you're in some really juicy staff at might pull you out so use it. Use it when it's going to serve you for sure. That's that's powerful. Let's hear a word from our sponsor. Do you want more leads and faster whether you own a small to medium sized business or marketing agency. Band dot is is the solution for you. It's an ai powered. All in one lead generation solution that leverages email social outreach. Paper click retargeting sales chat bots if your marketing agency or consultancy looking to scale your offering and client base. They even offer a white label. Solution that allows you to fully customize and sell the platform your own service. Find out more sign up today at bent dot. Oh look forward link in the show notes so in preparing for this interview i took a look at your bio and you point to a love of science as late new to this place so help me understand well. I my undergrad. Degree was a bachelor of science and biology and after high school. I i love languages. I loved. I loved a lot of different topics but science was the one that pulled me forward biology in particular and of course after Biology i realized i wasn't going to med school and i wasn't going to be teaching in a typical teaching environment. I find that. That's what i'm doing a lot of now and i wasn't going to work in a lab coat people too much and so then i studied business. My fell in love with business and marketing. So it's taken me actually a long while to circle back to science. But i find now when i'm sharing the best practices around focus or distraction or self discipline There's a lot of signs that i don. I mean the fact that you can be more productive after taking a walk outside in nature than if you sat at your desk the fact that lick videos kittens actually does something good to the brain is kind of fun to find out so when you get somebody to maybe change some of the things that are holding them back at them to be more productive. What are some of the surprising benefits That that you find that come from somebody feeling more productive. Because it's it's not just about getting the work done. I think that not getting the work done causes a lot of stress for self people. So have you. Have you discovered a some some benefits. That seem to be universal. I think it's pervasive. It's beyond the work because if you can fill productive at work and Just take some joy in that. There's an up leveling of satisfaction that spills over then into your personal life the to set boundaries at work in and get things done in the container has saved marriages. You know and -uilt family lives. That people are not no longer regretting so i think i think that's probably the most profound piece for me. If somebody can can skulk the work life that they want that it's a big piece of the actual whole life that they want and they can give attention to the other important areas of life which can often be overlooked. So i'ma kind of a creature of habit. I have a lot of rituals that i do all the time. In fact i sometimes have to push myself out of them. Because i can be to ritualistic but everybody's routine got really shaken up this year. A lot of people never worked at home are now working at home. And they've never home schooled and they're doing that too. So what does that really. i mean what. What sort of medicine now for trying to get some sense of normalcy back in that cyclone. Yeah will you hit on on in march when this head i thought. Oh my gosh. I've been working from home for about twenty years and counting people on. So how would i take the two things and on my website right now as a lot of free information if you just look claire kumar dot com slash work from home. And there's a lot of free information interviews and so on and a free download that talks about exactly to that question but what. I want to summarize it and is to say that. I want you to think about having a home team right and so we've got work teams. We we hear about that all the time. But you have a home team and you you wanna on the same page about the experience you trying to create a family and what your vision for this experiences that you're going to get through together. Then i want you to look at the capability. And if you've got kids those capabilities are changing like every few months. They can do more and more and more right so capability look at capacity. And that's everybody's ability to take on different things that's going to be affected by the amount of stress that they're under and other whatever else happens right because life keeps happening no matter no matter what and you look at all that before you choose commitments and when you take on those commitments you look at them as a team and say. How do we tackle this yet. I'm i'm sure that that Some people have had to just realize have to go some things right now not try to you know. Do it all right now because it's usually so much right. Yeah i talk about a extreme sport. The only one i play the extreme self compassion. Yeah so how has twenty twenty chains or maybe hinted that it hasn't that much has twenty twenty. Change the way you work. It has a little bit. Because i used to go to corporate locations to do speeches in person and there is certainly a lot of energy that comes back from working with people and presents. So i've taken my business online. My media tours are now online. I do all my tv segments here from my from my desk Which is pretty great. And incorporate b-roll so. I'm becoming more of an av team producer as well. Like any any speaker presenters. So that's changed but it's also been a up leveled My interest and understanding of how to get this kind of connection and how to foster that with people in a virtual space. So i come back feeling fulfilled after work and i much prefer a workshop. Environment were talking to people still rather than a webinar which is the monologue. So i'm all about conversation that's that's my preferred method of of doing anything so we talked a little bit about what people have had to do. Because they're forced into a different situation those people Let's hope are going to go back to what was in office. What should they take back with. What did they learn this year. Or what do you hope they learned this year. They actually take back with them and and incorporated into maybe what they've been while. I hope that it's given everybody an opportunity to take some time to reflect on what's important i mean i love greg. Mccowan the title of his book essentially and that was my word for twenty twenty. It's all of a sudden. You have to get clear on what's really critical volume and critically important. You've just gone down into super lockdown. Good starting on after christmas here. And you're like whoa what's essential and and so we have to know what that is and i think to know what that is it it requires and this is why i loved your book to the self-reliant entrepreneur. This that we don't pause enough. We don't stop and actually tune in before were invited to leinen and so i think we can be much more effective. I mean i talk about the biggest. Productivity gap is if you actually want to be over here but all your energy is taking you in the opposite direction right. So that is the biggest productivity thief there is so i'm gonna let you close out with two six. What are what are a handful can be too can be three your best productivity tips for twenty twenty one in then of course tell us where people can find out more about you in your work. Oh thank you one of the things that In coaching hundreds of people over the past few years that i think is often missing is making appointments with oneself in their calendar right so we make appointments with everybody else but when we look at i call at our daily roadmap. That's going to guide you through your day and that focus. Five of top five things to do in the day will be what you do imminently but having that roadmap it also serves as your journal if you're if you're honest about whether you did go to the gym or whether you did have a a a book writing session or whether you did meet your targets you and if you color it you really have a very quickly quick to understand both plan and record of what you've done so that's the thing one of the one of the things that people if they haven't done it Is game changing a lot of people so cal. You mentioned cal newport. He has a planner a daily planner of it's based on on deep work and one of the things that i've done for a long time. I know he's really talk about. This is plan your week. Not just your days especially. If you know you're trying to think. Oh i have this thing on thursday. I better spend some time thinking about it on wednesday kind of thing. And that's That's been really meaningful for me. Yeah the week is a long enough timeframe to fit in all the different areas of life and and the different projects are working on to and it. So i i have. There's a piece of work in an e book. I have called The lifetime management playbook so instead of time management. I like to think of lifetime management. So we're taking this bird's eye view of of how are planning things and definitely it's thinking about the time in chunks of a week so you get your exercise in your. May you nurturing your relationships. Who making sure you have time to play. You're developing as a person. There are different aspects. That i think you need to have fulfilled person and if we think about them over a week it's extremely powerful. We'll have to check out cows planner. That sounds great of an and then tell us where people can find out more about your work and maybe acquire this book that you've referenced Thank you so it's claire. Kumar dot com. And just so you get clarified right. There's no third is so it's c. L. a. r. e. and kumar's like harold and kumar ku and they are so clear kumar dot com and there is a products page in the book is there and you'll also see a bit of outline of the book that i'm forty five thousand words into and john after our discussion a few days ago. I'm really motivated to turn this into three many books actually so that the productivity methodology gets out there and people can start benefiting from that to also so. We'll put lincoln the show notes cinde clara. Thanks so much for stopping by hopefully will run into you when the next time. I'm in toronto. We're all having the road again. Yeah let's hope so. Hope it's not too far away.
Long-Haul, Self-Reliant Entrepreneurship w/ John Jantsch [RED 285]
"This is the red podcast thread. Podcast the marketing podcast for experts. David hooper here. If you've got a message that you want to spread you've got a book a podcast a blog alive of it that you want to attract people to this. Is the podcast for you. The marketing podcast for experts. You reach your audience. Expanded and deliver content. That connects all of my life. I have done my own thing when it comes to making money. I've talked about my gun. Show business when. I was a kid to businesses. Really the first business. This made the initial money. Is that when a gun. Show come to town and there were plenty of them. Because i grew up in nashville tennessee and my uncle and my grandfather were involved in the business of guns now like arms dealers but they will go around. Area gun shows and wheel and deal. Maybe they would have a booth full of guns and ammunition buy low sell high big flea market for gun enthusiasts and what i would do is show up at these places. Usually it would be on a weekend. I would show up twice. I would show up during the load in. And i would show up when everything was over i would help these guys unpacked. Their trailers vans cars. Whatever they had like a gun. Bellhop and i would make tips for that and then when it was done there was anything leftover out help. Pack up tells making money before. And i was making money after the show during the show. What i would do is. I would go spend that money. Buy low and selling high just like my relatives did wasn't buying guns. I was maybe twelve years old when i started this. What i would do is our by knives or are by throwing stars or that kind of stuff you know bad ass stuff for a kid and that would take it to school and sell for more money so i buy these cheap chinese knockoffs of like what they call a rambo knife like a big hunting knife. Sometimes they'll call them survival knives. Probably i don't know six or seven inch blade a handle that you would unscrew inside had like matches or compass or i don't know a saw one of those chains. You taken cut down a tree anyway. Survival knife i'll buy low and sell high. So i'm somebody who was always seen the opportunity of doing that taking something that you've got the other people want and sometimes it's literally just taking it from one place to the other. It's taken it from nashville to memphis for example if your guitar teacher say experts arrived with suitcase. Oh nashville guitars in nashville. You couldn't get somebody to sign you. If you were on fire but in memphis cattlemen our learners nashville sound okay and vice versa. You have that as an expert. It's something that you take for granted something that's all around you. You take it somewhere else. You can make more money with it. You bring personality with it. You bring a point of view with it. You basically make yourself a celebrity. Who's delivering that message. You will make more money. I've been doing this a long time. And i'm not talking about going back to the gun show when i was twelve years old. My real company that started in nineteen ninety-five. Now twenty five plus years in and i do think this sometimes i think to myself. Can i really keep this up. Am i going to keep doing this. Another twenty five years. I'm not gonna die with my boots on. I've got ideas still. But i know what it takes to do them. Now when i was in my twenties nineteen ninety five. I'll just jump into things. I started the second largest music business conference in the country over pizza. Like oh yeah. Let's do it next thing. I know i've got this big conference that i own. I think about things a little bit more before. I jump into them last year. I got a book by john jan. It's called the self reliant entrepreneur three hundred sixty six daily meditations to feed your soul and grow your business. I got it because again. I think about these things. I'm not gonna keep this up. What a what the next twenty. Five years to look like. Is it going to be different than the previous twenty five years or how is it going to be the same thought. Well daily exercises. That might be helpful for me to get clear on what it is that i want to do the next twenty five years. I had known of the author. John gaunt's from the late nineties. I'd actually had a program of his called duct tape marketing. So i finished it up. Three hundred sixty six daily meditations and. I got together with john to talk about his longevity to talk about this. We call self reliance. And if self reliant entrepreneur and a lot of things related to this. We talked about sticking with something. We talked about the point of view. That i'm talking about because that's going to get you more. Money talked about spreading your message in different mediums. The mission evolution of an expert business. He had something pretty similar to what i did. One on one then group and now he's doing licensing. We talked about licensing being impatient. We talked about the process of writing a book. You as somebody who is an expert and has an expert business. I think you're going to find this very interesting. I'm bringing twenty five years of perspective into this john twelve years before me. He's got thirty seven years at this point. Quick has up for. I play it for you. There are a few audio issues that we ran into when we recorded this. I'm not sure what was going on. Sometimes do remote recording things happen. It's not great. It's such important content. Though and i know you hear this a lot when you hear disclaimers like this will hope you'll forgive me. The audio is not that great. But that's the truth. This is a guy he's been around for a long time. He's got some great information. I hope you'll stick it out. Here's my conversation with john. Janse we i heard about you. The first time in the late nineties. I bought something called duct tape marketing in came in a three ring. Binder came with. Cd's back when we used to use cds. You'd probably be a check for two. I may have. And i thought that would be an interesting for this talk with you. You've got a book called. Self reliant entrepreneur which i went through last year three hundred and sixty six because of leap year. Three hundred sixty six exercises. I went through the whole thing. When i saw you had done that. We got to talk to john. Once i'm done with this. And i wanna talk about his self reliance and his longevity really. I've been around for a while to. You've been around. And i wanna keep being around a thought. I'd get some wisdom from you because our listeners do as well so let's talk about how things were back. Then just a quick minute or two on that you were self publishing your information via the three ring binder and yeah as you alluded to him in not only did we not have e commerce. We didn't really have the internet. I started my mind marketing consulting practice. i think i'm coming up on thirty seven years. You know a lot of people. I just hustled work and did whatever of the real plan but at at some point i decided i really loved working with small business owners but they were really tough to work with and so i said Create a way where i could just instead of making it up every time you walk in and say here's what i'm gonna do. Here's what you're gonna do. Here's what it costs you on it. And to my surprise it was very well received because you'll marketing was getting more frustrating at least getting more complicated for small businesses so somebody kind of preaching marketing as a system was sort of music to their ears and i documented that created it almost like a product and so i had to give it a name i call duct tape marketing to be more brand sounding. This people were starting to just dip their toe in the water online. Until i started just publishing information about what i was doing when that Twenty five years later turned into actually my seventh book and a network of independent marketing consultants around the world. That license maya system in my approach to to small business marketing in the i had a podcast since about two thousand and five. I think i'm on episode. Three thousand something so just just keep plugging along with this same point of view that marketing marketing assistant. Do you think that it is easier to make a name for yourself now or was it easier back then because on one hand it's easier than to put out a book on the other hand it seems like because it's easier than ever. There are a lot of books. There are a lot of consultants there. A lot of pop. I'd love to know your thoughts on how you've managed to make a name for yourself and how you're continuing to evolve because it's one thing to have a name for yourself but it's another thing to keep it for as long as you have. I think it's gotten a lot harder. Just for the reasons you said because the barrier to entry is so low in a lot of ways. I mean anybody can publish a book. It's not saying it's not a good book. I've just saying it really used to. There was a barrier to being invited in some ways to to write a book There are billions of blogs. When i started mine in two thousand three there there. Were you know two dozen again. I think that fighting through the clutter now has made it much harder and consequently. I think that's why you see you know. I was able to claim the space small business marketing while today. That's very large space So i think you see a lot of people that are succeeding. You're coming up with an angle coming up with the nisha baby or they are coming up with a point of view that really differentiates them. I would say that a foreign approach anything. That's been the key to any success that i've had is that instead of jumping on this platform this new tactic. It was really a point of view. That i have said now. Six billion times marketing is a system it starts strategy before tactics and crazy as that sounds at still sort of unique about in the world of small business in the world of marketing consulting. I think that's the real key is is have a point of view that differentiates you because the tactics will come and go. What did you get personality. Because it's one thing to have the point of view and the system if you will and also good good name. I mean duct tape market. It was a great name. I'm sure that's what caught my eye. Because i was like. Yeah i feel like. I'm ivory in this thing but at the same time like these days i think about instagram and even podcasting. There were a lot of guys back in the time that we're talking about in the turn of the century here that they were good at writing but they did not translate well when they had to be more exposed to video podcasting. Did you have thoughts on that about bringing your own personality in and how much of it that you do bring in. I mean. I guess there's theater where we we all see people that are you know bringing this larger than life personality which may or may not be authentic or true to them but it sells. I think the thing that sells is long as you can find your tribe find. Your people is authenticity. I think that's the only thing. That's my only voice has been. Hey i'm a. I'm a guy from the midwest who thinks about you know practical ways to do things and i think that i've never at least attempted to never waver from just being who i am but also carry deeply about the people that i serve and what i'm doing. I love the attitude just to showing up consistently having the system sticking to what works. I think a lot of the competition that you face probably has the flashy stuff like. Hey this is the latest thing this is going to solve your problem. And i think it's easy to get caught up in shiny object syndrome. Have you ever thought about doing that. Have you ever been distracted by shiny objects when it comes to changing your message or even the tactics that you use to promote your message. I suppose i've i have But but certainly not intentionally. I i really maybe doesn't sell as well in some circles. Some younger folks coming up for some of the all online all digital folks that are tackling the latest tek tucker clubhouse or whatever it may be right you know i've never i mean i still feel like a who i serve is is True small businesses. And so. i'm never gonna go out there. In fact i you know we have a network of consultants and frankly final think that what we have to offer is going to actually be good for them. I won't take their money. My mission is to serve as many small businesses as possible not to necessarily get rich. I'm never gonna promised somebody that if they follow me or they use what i use or do what i say to do that. They're going to get rich. And unfortunately there will always be a market for people who wanna get rich quick and so it's good to see some of that That still sold today. It was sold thirty years ago. It just came in a magazine ad or game in a twelve page sales letter that you got in the mail right that latest sorta hustle will be with silky. Anytime i suppose. Let's talk about your evolution expert because it sounds like you were doing one on one work and moved into what i call. One dominion publishing is the first couple of steps. Absolutely i mean my very first thing was was just you know what he need. I can do that. That was my business model. I think a lot of people start out like that. And then as you allude to. I can only scale that so far and i never really had the vision of i'm going to have a seventy five percent digital agency your agency of any type. I always kinda liked to stay. Lean and be able to do what i wanted to do and choose who i wanted to work with so to me that the path of being able to end sell products in i mean i had courses before they were goal and so to be able to do some of that stuff just seemed to me like the perfect way to control my own build a larger footprint impact more people without necessarily having to take on your managing a large organization. How did it transitioned in into licensing your content so that other people could. I guess they're scaling for you. They're going out and doing that. One on one work. It sounds like but distribution model really allowed me to impact you know ten twenty thirty times the amount of of businesses by kind of transferring my knowledge in my approach to to other people So they could do it simultaneously but it kinda came accidentally. I mean what i created was course was a. Here's how to do it. Here's a system and obviously it's evolved as marketing channels have evolved in new platforms. Come up but that approach was something that was very package of all you know maybe in the back of my mind somewhere. I said i needed to start this network. But i actually just started hearing from people who said hey. We want to do what you're doing and so i said okay. Then i'm gonna create this network. I work with a lot of podcasters and one that i have noticed. Is that a lot of them. Become podcast consultants rather quickly and it sounds like. That's the opportunity there if you earn a situation like that where somebody is saying like. Oh how can i do what you do or they are trying to do what you do. You're able to license them. I guess the content that they use for training the content that they use for workshops for live speaking. Yeah that's absolutely how we started but it really what's been fun about. This is that really only an aspect of it. I mean we do call it licensing. But it's really more of a network. It's almost like a membership organization. Now as well because of the folks in our network together they collaborate we do live events. It's more than a training or a licensing their lot of those kinds of things out there but this is all of that with community. I'm going to try to break down to understand. So they are going out and they are spreading the word of john. John's yes and no. I mean it's really the duck tape marketing system. Okay so they are. Using a methodology and in some cases heavily branded in other cases you know in the brandings in the background. Because they want it to be. It's a tool set that they happen is but there's no question. Our approach is a huge differentiator yet. Well that shows the fact that i think they're selling john john that that shows that i associate you with duct tape marketing so much. You've done a good job of branding that because you're the duct tape guy. When i actually saw it self reliant entrepreneur. I said well that's that's interesting. That's a step for this guy. Because i'm so used to your brand when you read this though you see that there's a connection to what you're talking about because it is entrepreneurship. It is i guess helping entrepreneurs and helping small business owners to survive or even thrive to make more money and to handle their marketing. Because i think the self reliance is a huge part of it. the title borrows heavily from ralph waldo. Emerson's essays self reliance. His brand self reliance was really more about trusting yourself so thoroughly that you were actually able to rather than go it alone. You're actually able to be empathetic and extend trust that. Everybody else was kind of in their own on their own path. But that we're all connected. All humans all living creatures are connected in this big bowl of soup ryan holidays a good friend of mine. Who is kind of taken on the mantle of stoicism in our generation. At least a of writing. And i kinda kid say that stoicism as opposed to transcendental More roche than Transit battle is of anyway but the book you know. I actually take work from the transit. Donald's which was a period in american history in the mid nineteenth century. I have writings from many many authors. That people would recognize because we read their work in school emerson. Thoreau mark twain louisa may alcott. That band of literature really speaks to me. And so i wanted to capture curated and then every day i give sort of with journey and then give you a question every day and so. This book is my sixth book. All mayor the books were very squarely. Marketing books squarely two I wanted to write a a y to book that kind of reflected my personal journey. And let's face it probably a lot of my personal belief. Come out here. Although i'm not. I'm not preaching her shoving anything down anybody's throat. I just know that for me. A great deal of my journey has been one of personal development. That's actually one of the best things about being an entrepreneurs. I think it's it's still one of the greatest personal or self development programs ever created if you go to work on yourself and ultimately i think that that's a real key to building a business it brings you joy while i was just going to say that i think that because i went self employed i was in my mid twenties when i just stand anymore so i was like. I'm on my own. And i think now at forty eight years old. I've learned so much from the process of uh twenty. Five years that i would never have had the opportunity to think that the self-reliant entrepreneur one of the reasons that i got it i push up against that stuff every day. I think people think that it's going to get easier and not there's not enough to it but it is something that i have to wonder about like. Can i keep this up. I'm curious if you also could. You've been thirty seven years. She said yes. Do you push up against that as well. If have you found it ever gets easy a couple of things to answer that question. I really love what i do. And i think that that's certainly helps me. There have been times. I felt a little stock. I felt a little like uh things You know are dragging. But i kinda liked the chase. I'm insatiably curious by nature. And so i love new things. I love figuring out when some new platform comes along. You know how it might apply fit in in into my work. So i think that that those two aspects probably don't make this a drudgery. I mean i'm sixty years old and still loving what i'm doing. Yeah i'm less and less involved in the day to day of our organization but to some degree. I'll continue to do something for a many many years. I wouldn't say that necessarily gets easier. It evolved changes one of the things that i tried to bring through in this book. Because it's a calendar. Its daily book is that i organized the themes in the content actually around the the metaphor seasons and obviously in a calendar book. That's metaphors kind of there. For the taking. I feel like i've experienced many seasons. And you know it's not like an annual thing you know. It's i can point to five or six times throughout my career where something big occurred. Either that that sort of forced to change or that i a new season you know came that presented a new opportunity and i think like a lot of the traditional seasons at least in the northern hemisphere. You've got your kind of spring where things look really you know. They're they're signing. they're happening and then summer comes along and us it's like. Hey you know what i think. I've got this figured out. This go work of and then fall comes in the leaves. Start falling off young. And that's that's been what i've experienced. It's like now okay. We've got some momentum but now like the problems are starting to show up. I can't keep you know my arms around everything anymore. But one of the things that we know from nature is that those leaves fallen off. The trees are planning seat. I just think that are more. Those kind of cycles of that happened in the longevity rather than just some sort of straight linear path. I'm curious about this personal season that you talked about. You said five or six times. And i've certainly have had them them still having them in usually goes like this. He usually goes kind of like you said. I think i've got this figured out and get comfortable for a little bit and maybe spend a little too much money and then turns out. I don't have it figured out. Like i thought but what i do understand. I love how you you've explained it that i've been added long enough. I know that it goes up and it goes down and then i'm going to be okay. What are those elements that you faced along. You're thirty seven years of doing this. If there is an aspect that gets easier you start trusting the process. I do know that early. On when i i got this opportunity to chase. It is going to happen in than it did. And i was sad eyed failed. That didn't work and then you start realizing that like something. Even better is around the corner right. Had you taken that one thing. This other thing wouldn't have been available. And so i think you you start relaxing and going okay. That wasn't meant to happen. I guess what what's supposed to happen and some people may be. Call it intuition. But you know i think you start relaxing. A little bit to end can leading the things you can control be president letting go of the things. You can't control one of things i've found. Is that when. I pushed you hard. It almost always backfires. There's a tennessee to force things. I think that when. I look at myself as an entrepreneur in my twenties. I'm like i just didn't want to work for somebody else. I just wanted to do what i was doing. But it's much more different. Now that i've got a family and a bigger house and in some ways i'm scared of losing something and in other ways i feel like i'm easing into it. I feel all of. It's a blessing. I'm so glad you're saying what you're saying though. It's that you still like it. You're still engaged in it. You've got the ability to focus on what you want and let the day to day be handled by other people and it still entertaining but you can be still scary the same time so. I'm glad you're acknowledging that as well. So one of the things i've experienced is most entrepreneurs are very impatient and just as you lou to lighthouse. We want things to move fast. We want that deal. You know one of the things that. I think that i've developed over time is actually recognize even when i'm procrastinating. Or when i'm stuck. Sometimes it's because i don't want to take the next move sometimes because i should and i think that kind of getting in touch with of the waiting for the right moment i can't tell you how many times even in book ideas my last book. I signed a contract about a will until eight march. I twenty twenty About two weeks later. The country went into lockdown. For the first time. And i have no idea what i was going to write about now. Fortunately a when it's your seventh book. Publishers aren't as concerned about how what you're going to write about just may trusted you. Hey i'm john jansen gimme a deal and they trusted you to come up with the topic. I had a one page. Here's what i'm thinking about. But i will tell you that it changed dramatically. Yeah the book you start. It's never the book you finish right well in in this case particularly because it was hard for me to get started because everything was colored by what was going on at omen in in my business with my clients and network. Didn't wanna ride a marketing in the time of covert book. I didn't want it to come out that way. What did occur is not what i thought it was going to be But i'm i'm really. I'm really proud of of the the book and what i think is going to be an innovation in at least in my body of work When it comes to marketing so the book ultimate marketing engine. That's coming out soon. Can we talk about your book process. That's about eighteen months. It sounds like from the time you sign the contract to the time available. Is that pretty standard. You know it still is which is a a little frustrating. Because i don't think it should take that long that's been about the cycle For n. I actually write my books pretty quickly. Some people take two years to write a book. I mean i. I take four or five months to ride out to actually turn the manuscript in than the publisher takes a year to. I will say that. My last book. The self reliant entrepreneur a widely credited on about six months after i started so that that was my fast experienced business publisher maybe they understand nonfiction authors a little bit better and sometimes as publishers get set on how many books they wanna put out in what can a window and so sometimes they put things off because shurmur fall. He's not ready in april them. They're going to wait till september. That comes. yeah. We're tim fares is coming out that week. We've made her do so. He can sell all his copies. Well i i did see amanda First book is coming out to the same day as my next book come. She was the poet laureate. That kind of wild people at the yeah. That's going to be hard to get press that week. But you're in a long-term guaranteed were. They have moved her pub data gear. Oh yeah you know. I was in the music business for so long and i remember one time. This is back probably around when i was Ordering your duct tape marketing binder. We had an album to release. And we got behind the spice girls or something in the manufacturing. This said no sorry listen. It's going to be another three weeks because we've got to do twenty million spice girls records and there was nothing you could do about it. We don't have that anymore. Fortunately we've got on demand we've got some other options for print. It still is not easy with so much noise as you alluded to. I love it that you can knock out a book and forty five months. Think that's just incredible. You talk about being focused on writing everybody listening to this. Podcast is expert some sense and we've all heard that that you need to do a book you need to deal book. It's not easy. My last one took four and a half years. It wasn't because i was working on it every day. But a lot of it with the delays that you mentioned of just having to take a step back but it sounds like if you're doing four or five months that you pretty focused during that time couple of things particularly if you have a traditional publishing deal. I mean you sign a contract that gave you some money and then they tell you when the books do and there's all kinds of penalties if you don't turn the book i don't know if they're gonna enforce video Contract sure so. That's a deadline. You know so that A lot of people at gets off their but pretty fast. The other thing too is you know. I don't write research books per se. I don't go out do all kinds of interviews and all of research have a big study going or something for my books. I you know. Essentially right based on. What i've experiencing so i guess that's research in some forms. Yeah time in the game research sense. I'm just writing. Here's what i did you try. It might work for you too. I mean that's yeah that's it comes down to in. Some cases is on constantly developing things from my work. And then i just write about. You've self-published at least one book that i'm aware of. I self published a book. That i thought was just going to be too much of a niche topic Seo for growth. Right what i wanted to do is demystify. it's not it's not a technical. Seo book it's really more of a marketers handbook for seo. I just see so much Under the banner of seo. That is almost intentionally confusing. And so i'm gonna do break it down and say look if you're going to hire an seo person which in some cases you know certain industries certain types of businesses certainly. Need that at least know what you're buying was really kinda my Attempt in that book is self publishing is actually great for something like seo because it does change a lot that's end you have to get it out quickly. Why not sell published some of these other books. Talk about the pros and cons and why you decided to continue to deal with traditional publishing even though self publishing obviously you know how to do with the biggest thing that having publisher like harpercollins or widely thomas nelson portfolio published. A couple of my books is. There's no question. There's an element still of cachet whether it's true or not that that's supposedly a stamp of credibility right along with that comes or built-in distributions. They obviously also handled the editing. The cover design the copy. Editing and the Those are all things that as you alluded to can be done now. You can hire all of that out. I just chosen to continue to publish books that way for a lot of what i see the conveniences but also cachet of coming from one of those publishers as well. You know the bottom line is no matter how you publish a great deal of the sales are going to be on the author. At least the first. I think it's steph code. That said the first ten thousand copies of the book. Are you everything. After that is is really on the the market and and the publishers distribution. And i think there's a lot of truth to that with the exception of i mean is it always sometimes study books that just go crazy sales. And you look at you really. You know what. What attention i i had somebody on my podcast. Recently this written a book on on gratitude a lovely book just she had no. I mean she came out of nowhere. She's a she's a psychiatrist psychologist and does work with with folks. You know on on helping them kind of gain more self confidence. She's wrote this book on gratitude. And i don't know oprah or somebody founded gun hurt absolutely blew up in. it's out couple hundred on amazon. You know now for a couple months writing. I think though just to wrap the book topic though with her with you. It's time in the game if you are. They're working one on one with clients or if you were there for years and years in this stuff that is going to be a book that connects so much better because getting we used to say is good marketing only makes things fail faster member voice still worry about the opening weekend for a movie and if it wasn't good and once the word got out your movies dead but everybody would go there that opening weekend if it was hyped and we we don't with amazon reviews and everything else it seems like everybody's got a platform to talk your book up or tell people how bad it is and people both. It's funny it seems like it. Maybe this is an age old thing but it seems like of late pre covid at least when we used to go to movies. I would always worry. When i'd see this big named movie running a whole bunch of ads and it's like oh crap. This must not have fared well in the previews because the irving with those names stars in it should do just fine on its own. Yeah they're desperate to make that money back quickly or it actually gets out. Yeah i love what you're doing. I think that one of the biggest takeaways is that you to show up every day and you have for thirty seven years. And that's how. I found out about self reliant entrepreneur on even. Remember where i heard you talking about it. But i knew the name john janssen's okay. I knew from your reputation and from duck tape marketing in the referral book. That you have. I'm gonna do it. Because i think this would be a fun experiment for me to go through. I think that's a huge lesson. Just keep showing up and eventually you become legendary. I certainly saw that in the music industry ups and downs. And nobody will book you in the downturn and the next thing you know. You're a legend. I think is entrepreneurs. We go through that one of the reasons. I think people hire you. You show up you've been here. They know you're going to be here so there's something to be said about that when it comes to be an expert and being an entrepreneur. There's no question. Consistency is a big part of it. But i don't just show because i'm a glutton amina show really i love it i love what i. I can't think of a time where i've gone through a an extended period thinking It's monday and i think that's obviously what helps and i'm okay as it sounds i. I'm i'm very connected to who i'm helping. I'd love small business owners. I really believe in the idea of them being true. American heroes were white heroes but but certainly the hero of pretty much every economy whether it's election year. Not i believe that to be true and so You know if. I can help a small business owner get their business going into effect. Get their life back in some cases than you know. That's what makes me that so much that that That i think wraps it up in such a nice bow and just you're thankful for you. You seize the opportunity and you see the opportunity as well that not. Everybody gets to do what we do. Which is doing what you want to do. And if anybody's working job or maybe you're working a job right now. You know how awful that can be. I'm just thankful not to have to do that. That's enough for me. Yeah amen. John thank you so much. It's duct tape marquee not duct tape with a k. e. t. a. p. e. marketing dot com and john john's on amazon. There's some great books there that right. There is a great lesson for entrepreneurs to look at the difference between the self publishing books that you've done the difference between the major publishers that you've done and just see what longevity looks like and all of that is available to us gotta go john. Thank you for being here on bread. It's my pleasure. That's it the conversation with john. Janse definitely take a look at the books he has done. Take a look at his website. Duct tape marketing. If you need a good template from somebody. Who's been in the expert business. For a while. I think john is an excellent one. He sticks to what he knows he sticks to what he does. He's not flashy he shows up every day. And i've seen this in so many different industries that i've worked in certainly the entertainment industry. It's very easy to go with what he called the shiny object syndrome going for. What shiny going for the next big thing. It doesn't work you do. What brought you to the table. The axe from the seventies might have had a disco record. Carly simon talking to you seriously call. Simon etta disco rocard. She not a disco artist. She's a singer songwriter. Kiss had a disco record and then nineties hairband skid row head runs records warrant grunge records. Think about that when it comes to your business. Do your thing if you keep showing up. You will outlast all the trends all the fads. You'll be known for something very specific and you're going to have success with it so check out what john is doing. it's exactly that duct tape marketing. Look at his books on amazon. You want more from me. Read podcast dot com slash subscribes where to get it red like the color. Rfid podcasts dot com slash subscribe. Thanks so much for listening. And i'll see on the next episode.
The Ins and Outs of Marketing Automation
"This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by gusto modern easy payroll benefits, for small businesses across the country. Because your listener you get three months free. When you're on your first payroll. Find out a gusto dot com slash tape. Elon, welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. My guest today is Jason van, boom. He is the CEO and founder of the Sierra and marketing automation, platform, known as active campaign, and we're gonna talk about how CRM and how relationship building and how Email marketing and marketing automation, have changed for the better and Jason's gonna talk about some of the things they are doing there and active campaign. So Jason, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me looking forward to it. So, you know marketing automation's been with us for a while. And it certainly was a real boon. I think for a lot of folks that were, were at least attempting to. You know, kinda helped drive the funnel or drive people down the funnel, or whatever the term that they used for it. But it's, it's really not that personal or at least in the traditional way, I think a lot of people found a lot of ways to abuse it. Let's put it that way. So what does your on on marketing automation space, general right now? Yeah. I think if you look in, in the past at started from a good place saving time maybe personalized experiences and whatnot. But ultimately, the focus has been so much on kind of the time savings, replacing humans as much as possible. And that leads to experiences that are less than I deal. Also as an industry, we always talk about personalization. We talk about highly personalized to the contact level. But then when we look at what you can build within Mark out emission platforms. Oftentimes personalization doesn't mean personalization by the individual. It means a grouping of people or a segment of people. Getting these unique experiences. So that makes them not actually that unique at all. Because there's so many other contacts customers going through that same workflow. Well, and I think there's no question that at least the you know, you go to the conferences today and everybody's talking about personalization personalization. And I think that I think for some people it's not gonna be on. Hey, I name here's my Email. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that that's the nut. We have to crack isn't it? I mean it's great talk about personalization. But how do we do it? I started the show off talking about customer experience, automating and predictive sending. So let's just lay that out. I mean, how does that work that's any different than designing campaigns so to speak? Sure. Yeah. And I think there's those two focuses that's the bringing humans a threat time, and then functionally that, that, that can be developed. Predictive? Sunday's a good example of that where instead of thinking about messaging that's delivered. At the same time for a group of individuals really learning from the contact level when is the best time and not just win is the best time to open. But when is the best time for someone to be willing or open to respond to than gauge from the brand? Let me stop. You're at there because I just want to clarify that. So how would how would. So let's say we send out. You know, we have this list, we think they all care about the same thing or they care about the same product and we send him in the mail or something explains. A new offering I mean, how would then timing be changed? Would it be changed based on the behavior that how they interacted or didn't interact, or what they did would would actually automatically sort of put them in another timing? Yes. So couple of things if you don't know a lot about them than we have to go to baseline ideas that have been done in the past of just like overall time zone over. Hall characteristic compared to other context, that's kind of follow the same attributes and whatnot. But then, as you get a better understanding of that individual of the timing should change in so predictive, sending is very much about a message going out, right? But where we're going with that, as well as not just like in terms of message, but think about predictively figuring out the optimal time for sales are up to reach out so really finding that blend of like automation, human touch, because timing plays such a key role with most any sales process also post sale process of getting some actually see value out of whatever you're selling. So another things very common is, is, we'll have an e book, it has great promise. Great message if people wanna get it, but just because they downloaded that I mean doesn't necessarily mean I mean they, they were solving a different problem. They were in a different stage of their, their journey, or searching I mean, how do we then take the sinking and say, okay? Let's add what we think they need in terms of content. I mean, how do we actually? So not just send different timing. But maybe different content together. Is that part of kind of the new norm? Yeah. No, I think that's something that has been talked about for years and years and years. And it's autumn Ellie fallen into the idea, just like us split testing or something like that, right. Split us down. Emails is nothing. New split testing within automation. Workflow is something we've had for quite some time and some others have started grow their own versions of that. But ultimately, that still is trying to figure out like one solution that's gonna work well for everyone or for for a group or for a segment of context. When in reality, what we should be thinking about is within that content of the message whether the Email, whether it be on another channel determining based on that individual contact, what type of content would work. Best did not necessarily try. Find the number one winner across a variety of options so doing that for messaging is very much. That's kind of where we're spending a bunch of time right now. And then also taking the concepts, and fundamentals of like split testing actual workflows, but doing that in a way where it's not split testing to some singular end-result, but actually finding the right paths in the right content by the individual contact. And so the -plication if we're gonna use the word automation, here is that I'm not just sitting here with a giant spreadsheet of all my split tests, and plugging in data, and then redirecting or remiss Aji, the, the idea, here is that there's an automation aspect of that. Exactly. Yeah. And that there's an intelligence built in where to try to create those like right now, it's very static experiences that you have to try to create create these personalized, you know, workflows. Instead of having to build out, you know, thousands tens of thousands of workflows to try to get that granularity personalization that trust compete enabled within a platform, you get there faster for those that aren't familiar with the, the back end workings of active campaign of they, they use something they call automations to where you can kind of drag a drop, you know, do this, then do that, if they do this do that. So how with that really really brief explanation how how is now? How is the artificial intelligence that's being built into your the decision making process has that changed that kind of drag drop approach? Yes. So the protests, still there it just provides that's the general theme of direction. Meaning a good way of thinking about automation is just thinking about a flow chart, you, you have a stop start with your flow chart. That's typically the trigger something happens to create the automation. And then you have a sequence of like you said, and then the only time you have actually. Different experiences would be if you have like if an else's like if an action occurs, do something, otherwise go down at different path. That's how you create that like tree looking situation with closer. Right. So taking that, but making the actual paths very by the contact in the independent timing between those actions. Whether it be sunny a message or wins, optimal time to get sales or customer success involved. And then also within the Constancia Personalizing, the paths you're Personalizing, factual content. You're Personalizing, the timing creating a really going from a static experience that everyone sort of, you know, hits, all those check boxes at the same time with the same content to something that is far more dynamic and individual to individual contact. And so then is the software platform merely making recommendations to me, as the user that, hey, we're seeing this, or, or this format of content is getting. All the play you ought to move this direction. Or is it just on making those alterations for me? Yeah. So we believe that nobody would really trust it out of the box if it was just like we're gonna make all the decisions for you. So instead of that, like, you still know, your business more than anyone else at the end of the day, probably know your customer, probably, you know what will probably work when the other. So allowing you to kind of set that up and then shoes. As you gain more and more confidence with the platform, what you want allow the platform to play around with. So whether it be the timing us backed or if you want to you, like the idea, personalized content. You don't necessarily want to split test it, and you wanted to actually be a little bit more dynamic by the contact allowing you to sort of enable these different pieces, as you gain more and more trust, now we're also working on ways, where we can make suggestions things that maybe are not thought up today, or maybe you have automations that are currently running in. We're seeing something with the data that just, you know, maybe you haven't analyzed quite yet. Or just something that may not make sense outside of what the date actually tells and just start for some of those recommendations. But still allowing that allowing business owner that marketer to choose to opt in on some those things eventually the idea is it should not like a true platform, a true platform, that's focused on CNN sodomy Shen shouldn't feel like a tool. It should feel more like a business partner to feel like it's actually adding value enabling you to do more everyone loves payday, but loving payroll provider. That's a little weird still small businesses across the country. Love running payroll with gusto, gusto, automatically files and pays your taxes, it super easy to use, and you could add benefits and management tools to help take care of your team and keep your business safe. It's loyal. It's mater Hugh might fall in love yourself. Hey. And as a listener, you get three months free when you run your first payroll. So try demo tested out gusto, da. Dot com slash tape. That's gusto dot com slash tape. So one of the things that I think. A lot of business owners struggle with obviously, as you know, you hear about a platform like this, and you think, oh, this is great is going to do all the work for me. But analogy. If we don't set our businesses or lead capture processes up on the front end. Right. I mean it's probably not going to collect anything that you could do anything with. So what are some best practices, for say routing and segmenting and capturing somebody enough data about somebody so that we can kind of understand what bucket to put them in even? Yeah. So couple of things I would say one air on capturing more data than you may even think you need right now by having that captured. And having that captured historically allows you to actually be able to do something in the future. The other thing I would spend a lot of time not so much thinking about tactically. How you're gonna cause a conversion or how you're gonna cause actions, take place. But what are those key pieces? Like, what are those key conversions that you care about sometimes it's obvious? Like it's actually purchasing the product or whatnot. But then with your own, like inside knowledge into, like going back to like, you know, your business more than anyone else, or any other platform from different. You know, vantage point what are those influencers you'd think that may assist along the way like what are those key points where someone starts to find value in whatnot, and that isn't always like a quantitative sort of thinking oftentimes, it's much more qualitative in the way of you just think something has some sort of a weight to it. We're also they start seeing the value. They become a little bit more hooked with the product or service. You're offering when you start figuring out what those are done, you can build out, more tactical execution as to how do you drive more of that behavior? And how Dr. Ultimately to that conversion. But do not thinking about those if you're not thinking about the key conversion events. You're really just going to start with quite a bit. And there's nothing that can really help is everything has to work to summon goal. Yeah. I think one of the things that, that I've always struggled with, frankly, is I have I have a couple of very unique segments. And if I ns listeners probably gonna say, yeah, you're not doing this, but I have they need very different messages. But it's not always obvious who they are. I know that sounds really vague. But, but, you know how hard is it in that kind of initial? Hey, here's a piece of content that you found, you know really compelling. You wanted to me, your Email address. But now I wanna know who you are. And in common wisdom is hey, just get the Email address and don't put any more friction up, but by taking that path, I'm also not learning how to serve them. So, yeah, so help me out, what's, what's the what's the best practice for should wants somebody gives that. And they get the content shoe immediately. Go to asking them to, to sort of self identify. I think it's a couple of things one, I do believe in the less as more up front to get the process going. So maybe you just start with Email address, based on that ideal your first couple of pieces of content. I messages, going out have some clear, like, like if it's actual content. That's enabling something, there's a couple different varieties in there. So based on gauge -ment with that you can classify and don't just treat it as, like there's a link click or something like that. Now, you know that someone is something you can you could maybe take or something to that contact. You have a general understanding, but then trying to find different ways. Just basically profiling of as they take more action over time to get something either from the action or them to fill something out additionally in the future. But it also goes back to just kind of testing overall deserves the what content are they interested in which I think, a lot of people focus on the how do they actually like to consume the content, which I think, more people need to focus on sooner than later, and that could be simple as like a some people like to consume heavy content. I like more cliffnote style. In a bunch of different similar types of variations. But I think that piece focusing on both at the same time in small iterative, not trying to get it all at once is probably the best password. So let some, let's outline just kind of a very typical use case. It's a really common these days to have a an indoctrination series. So somebody is new to you. They come in. They say hey like what you're doing here? I wanna get this checklist. Get on your list, you know, start getting stuff from you. And then we kind of we kinda drip out, typically been written as an automation, you know, maybe we put two days or three days between each and we drip out what we think will be useful information in a sequence of maybe over forty five or sixty days they should know assuming they read it all a lot more about how would how would that very common practice be changed in a. A cx`se automation predictive, sending way sharper. So for one instead of having a single piece of content each step of the way ultimately having the -bility have multiple versions, but not testing for a single source of truth. So as you have a better understanding of both what types of content, they're looking to consume but how they wanna consume it, it can start Personalizing to that behavior judicially that there's different types of people for consuming the content in maybe different levels of maturity, if you will, or want for consumption in terms of timing, so based on interaction based on if we start grouping things up based on attributes that are known prior, even if they're anonymous attributes such as like a pages, they visited sources things like that to possibly accelerate that entire process. You're talking about put to do both of those things at more of a individual level. Instead of just trying to get like the one overall. And I think that's the theme of where things are going in the future's, all too often in the past. We've really tried to optimize for this one overall workflow this one overall like drip, set of emails that overall is the best relieving a lot on the table by really having to just focus on the overall instead of thinking about it at a more personal level. So the typical sort of person that actually is very engaged ready to solve their problem. They wouldn't consume the content in five days, instead of five weeks would get that experience because they demonstrated that behavior. Yes, but then alternately you know, at the end of the day, try and get all of this tied to like going back to those, those key pieces that you know that are going to drivers for conversions. Absolute your actual conversions as well. Because at the end of the day, that's what we should be. Optimizing four is those knowing sort. Sort of events or transformative moments where she converting yes. So it's just a matter of, of how we deliver them to that event. Exactly. So what's in the future? Then I know we're talking about stuff that is new and still wrapping their heads around. But I'm guessing that you've roadmap an evolution of this even. Yeah. So quite a bit. And then all of your ball, there's, there's a lot more to do with timing when you start thinking about when humans are involved in any form of process, the timing, so critical, whether it be a phone, call or reach outs and whatnot. So really digging into that further, the content piece, we're just sort of scratching the surface of we're, we're, we're investing quite a bit into that right now making a truly personalized content. We're not just testing to a single end result. But really the best of variation and trying to get predictive content across channels as well. Not just stick to judge. Email, and then there's the these these the concept of life dynamic routing. And so, like, we have, you know as marketers create these funnels and whatnot that you've been describing and they're not like you know, normally just thought up of from nothing there to point like it's while thought a been doing these for quite a while. And so allowing marketers create a couple of these dynamically placing context down them. But not necessarily testing for the single answer. But finding the optimal one after that it's very much about how do we take all these practices and provide predictions provide ideas so seen all the data's all the movement doing the personalization whatnot. We should be able to predict more and more. So even as we start off as a marketer, using platform you should be able to give guidance as to like, here's something. Here's a recipe for sequence of events that we think would improve sales by acts or save in a why number of hours building off. How do you make more and more of these productions in how you actually follow up with the outcome? That's alternately. We're, we're looking to go. Of course, it means you have to pay attention to what's actually going on behind the scenes, doesn't it? And yeah, I mean that sort of physicians, but sort of not. It's not a matter of setting these things up. If you're not going to analyze them and. Learn from them, then, you know, probably won't get nearly as much out of them. So Jason new people can find all they want about active campaign at active campaign dot com. Are you this is June of twenty nineteen so depend upon when people are listening? Are you doing conferences, or any kind of roadshow or anything that people need to know about? Yeah, sure I'm at a couple of things in upcoming months. I think traction is the next conference will be at otherwise, we have we're doing over two hundred marketing events this year throughout the world. Where we're really talking about marketing strategy and whatnot, and helping people grow their business that can be found at active campaign dot com, events dot com slash ovens and other than that anyone wanted to reach out it can always be reached that Jason active campaign dot com. They hopefully will run into next time on up in the Chicago area. Sounds good. I.
Getting Salespeople and Prospects on the Same Side
"Hey this episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by Rev dot com. We do all of our transcriptions here on the duct tape marketing podcast using Rev dot com. And I'm gonna give you a special offer just a bit. Hello. And welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen my guest today is Ian open. He is a leading authority on excel rating business growth in sales. He's also the co author of the bestselling book same side selling how integrity and collaboration drive extraordinary. Also for sellers and buyers. So in welcome to the show, John thanks for having me back. So let's just get the title out there. They're allowed to sales books lava sales methodologies what does same side selling can bring that's new to the world of sales. It's it's really a modern approach. If you think about it almost every sales book that's ever been written. Either uses a gay meadow. For or a battle metaphor. And in a game. You have a winner loser in a battle. The loser dies. And then we wonder why we have this adversarial position between Byron seller, and the model that we put forth and same side. Selling is a puzzle metaphor that says look with your client. You have you have a bag with with puzzles in it or puzzle? They have a bag with puzzle pieces in it, unless we sit down side by side at a table and put our put our piece on the table. We don't know whether or not we have a fit, so it's not about persuasion or coercion. You can't coerce somebody. If they're puzzle pieces, don't fit your puzzle. And so it's much more even handed. It's not a beauty pageant pick me pick me. It's more. Do I have something that's value for you. And can I help you better than somebody else? And if so we have something to talk about and if not be worth our time. So I'm picturing the person who. Got their quota for this quarter. Who's listening to the show saying, yeah? But yeah. But I sure right. I mean, so how do you? How do you get that person to think because this is this is probably a long-term approach? Right. I mean, you're saying there are times when you have to say we shouldn't be together we shouldn't play together. So how do you get that person who's being driven to make a number? Well, so here's the interesting part. We have always case studies in the second issue the same side selling that profile companies that cheap extraordinary growth while actually pursuing fewer opportunities so old school was hey sales numbers game. You just have to make so many phone calls and our protest. It's not about if you recognize that it's not about persuasion coercion. It's about finding the best fit. Then instead of just saying I wanna speak to anybody with a pulse. You say, you know, what these are the three problems that business as a business? We are really good at solving. And if I can find people who are facing those challen. Ages. I've got a pretty good chance of captured their attention, and these are problems that are significant enough they're likely to spend money to solve them as opposed to the old school was let me get anybody with a with a pulse. And now that I've got them with a pulse. Let's hope that maybe I can get into slip into a coma and they'll accidentally sign a contract. And it's just you know, it's just a it's it's it's a futile way to go about trying to grow your business. So in many cases, it's about narrowing your focus rather than broadening your focus. I've been saying for years that I think a lot of times the company that can explain or communicate the problem. The best is probably the one that's gonna get invited. But what about I mean? I do also. No like, I get calls all the time. I have a broken website come out and fix it. All that's sort of the problem. But it's not the real. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of times our clients. Don't know what the real problem is. They just know where it hurts. So how do we define where it hurts in a way that ties back to what we can do to bring value? Well, so for example, let's say that somebody let's say someone offers IT services to law firms. So they can say, well, you know, we we help businesses that have problems with their services. And the problem is everybody does IT services going to say the same thing. But what's actually going to move the needle for the law firm? Well, what's really gonna move them leading dealer for law firm is once they recognize that they're losing billable time. Once they realize that their issues are impacting their ability to attract and retain younger, younger associates. They want and need to grow and has been planning. It's it's understanding that they might be impacted firms reputation when things don't go. Well, so I wouldn't say fix IT issues. I if I was them I would say, well, our clients come to us. This is something we refer to in the in the book is the same side pitch. Our clients come to us when they're facing one of two or three major problems as a law firm one is that they're having issues it's causing Liz billable work in billable time. So their partners and socio get frustrated because we're spending time on something. And then it gets lost. They have to recreate the second thing that causes all of a sudden they now missed deadlines potentially could lose those clients longer term. And the third thing is that men. Because IT issues. There the newer and younger associates are trying to attract say man, you guys aren't relevant. How come I can't just access the stuff anywhere anytime? That's what we're looking for. So for the right firms. They tell us that we've got a solution that streamlines all that. So there's problems go away. But the way we approach it, man. It's not the right fit for every firm. So I don't get. No if we can help you. But if that's what you're facing, I'm happy to learn more to see if we might be able to help and the whole idea is that at no point in my really talking about the technology. In fact, it's still relevant. Right. I mean, if you could fix those problems. I don't really care exactly if my solution was I fifteen hundred gerbils and a back room you'd have to questions one is show me twenty other firms are getting results from that. And the second is is it legal. Right. And if if both those pass muster you'd be like, dude, you don't even want to know how we solved it. But I t- is humming. So what are the kind of core foundational elements of this? Book or your approach is this idea of finding impact together. So you wanna unpack that idea? So the idea finding impact is that we used to have this notion of always be closing your ABC made famous by Alec Baldwin and Glengarry Glen Ross, so always be closing. Instead, we wanna think about finding impact together. Meaning if let's say use the same example, if someone law from said, oh, we have issues. Well, yeah. But is that really causing enough angst in your firm to make it worth solving this? So what we're trying to do is uncover is that issue driving of impact is an important of to solve to make it worth our time to help them find a solution because there are some things that people face that are kind of nuisance, but they're never gonna spend money to try and fix them. And the most frustrating thing in a business is when somebody appears to be interested and you spend weeks. Or months working with them, and you lose to a non decision, and they say that we're gonna stick with what we have. And you think why did I waste my time with these people? So finding impact together is is a series of questions that we asked to figure out is this problem likely something that they'll spend money to solve. So I can hear like Baldwin. Sit down coffees for people who find back together. So anyway, so one of the one of the fact you're dedicating entire chapter this this idea of finding people are sufficiently motivated to invest in a solution. Because I think it's really easy to find people that are leaking oil that part's actually pretty easy. But how do we find the difference between those people that clearly need us to help them in the ones that are motivated to invest in solution. Well, so it's simple questions. It's things like so someone says, yes, we're having this this IT issue. And you say so what happens if you don't solve that? And what you're trying to do is be curious to see if they can convince you the problem is really worth solving. So too often. What happens is someone says, oh, I'd like to solve issues and people come back in the forecast it at ninety percent because someone said, oh, they contacted about issues. But if you ask the question, well, so what happens if you don't solve it? Nothing that's been going on for years and deal. Okay. So that's the that's that's a big challenge that if you don't address if you don't have these sorts of questions, you can be chasing rainbows all day long. So you know, you're talking before about what is the person who's got a quota deal with. Well, the reality is that person's got a quota MS recognize that you what if they could double their growth rate, while pursuing forty percent fewer opportunities, and we have cases accompanies who have done that. So it's just about narrowing your focus to the people who matter the most and having a method for doing it because candidly the way most people evaluate a good business meeting today doesn't really give good insight, and it's kinda funny. How people do it with again. I go back to my example, happens to me every day people. Call us and say, yeah, we need a new website because Olin's really, you know out today outdated. But you know, we're not probably going to pay that much for. Because we don't really get any leads from it. Anyway, you just want to go. Well know why you don't get any lease from it. But you know, it's it's that's one of those cases where I'd rather not even I'd not rather not pursue that person. Because even if we because I think the, of course, a lot of the folks you deal with our sales, folks. And sometimes they, you know, once the contract signed they walk out the door, but you know, sell in my world where maybe we are going to actually deliver as well. The the worst thing we can do is sign a client who doesn't have the proper motivation because they're going to be in the, but well and keep mind what you could do is when that person calls up, you could say, you know, so when people call us, they usually looking for solution at one of three levels at the basic level is, hey, look, we know exactly what we want with our new website. We just want someone to be able to execute exactly what we want. And that's we call the effective level. The next level. We call this the enhanced level the enhance level of someone who's going to introduce some new ideas to you new concepts some new technologies to. To bring your website to the next level at the highest levels. What we call the engage level. This is where somebody is tied in with your business goals and objectives and were recommend digital marketing strategies that can help chief those results that are measurable in repeatable. So which level you looking for we call those in my world, build grow and ignite. Yeah. What you just described? So so the idea is that then what you're doing saying? Well, so what are you looking for because guess what the person just wants build? Probably doesn't matter. The person's wants a -ffective may not be your ideal client. They may be great for somebody else. Just not for you. This episode of the duct tape marketing podcast is brought to you by Rev dot com. There are so many ridiculously valuable reasons to order transcriptions. You can write entire blog posts could write an entire book by just speaking it and having Rev put together a transcript that you can then just bring on home. I mean, if you wanna record a meeting. So that you have notes again over and over there are so many good reasons if you just want to take notes when you're listening to something, and you just want to record those notes and get it. It's it's amazing. What the reasons you can find for doing this and Rev gets those transcripts as I said, they do our podcast. They get those transcripts back to you. Lightning fast. And I'm going to give you free trial offer. If you go to Rev dot com slash blog slash DT M that'll be in the show notes to but you're going to get one hundred dollars coupon to try them out. And I suggest you do it. So another significant changes in the world of selling is that because the buyer in a lot of cases has access to a lot of information. Some of it's really good some misleading, but nonetheless, they feel like oughta cases are pretty educated. So how salesperson now bring their value? Up by teaching. Well, so so there's a couple of concepts behind us a lot of it comes down to helping the client understand not only what the other impacts could be to their business of not solving this. But also how other people may be seeing results that may or may not resonate with them. And so if we can give people a structure for these meetings, it works really, well, I said what happens is storage is somebody comes out of a meeting, and we've all heard the sales rep is excited about meeting. All John the best meeting. We'd scheduled to talk for only fifteen minutes in the meeting lasted four an hour and all my God. And the two of us man, we got together. And we just clicked we connected. It was amazing. It was magical and we've already agreed that next week. We've already set up a time to meet again. And the problem with that is that it would be a fantastic way. To summarize a good meeting if it had been set up on an online dating site, but it's not a good way to evaluate a good business meeting. And so one of the things we added to same side selling this notion of something we call the same side quadrants and on the same side quadrants the ideas that it's a method for taking notes in meeting. So we can have mutual understanding with our client about what might be important ideas on a blank sheet of paper, which are vertical line down the center page horizontal line across it creating four quadrants in the upper left. We take notes about the issue that they were interested in talking about. And that might start by just saying, hey, wouldn't spires you meet with us today. Johnny. We're we're we're just thinking about getting a new website. Okay. You might ask questions like how long this going on? What have you tried in the past? What's working? What isn't great? And then we asked this question that says. So what happens if you don't solve that? And now we move from taking those in the upper left quadrant of issue. Now, we move over to impact and importance which is the upper right quadrant. And that's where we're trying to quantify the impact that organization of not solving the problem and also trying to cover how important is compared to other things on their plate. So we'll get information about that. Then. With two knowledge. I know that you use speak about this as well that just because you pass money doesn't mean that successful. So what can we measure together? What are the tangible results that would be meaningful? So that we know we're successful. Because at the end of the project, I wanna have a high five moment with you. I wanna make sure that you and I both agree that it's high five worthy. So what does that look like and that's in the lower left quadrant and then the lower right quadrant. We take notes about who else might need to be involved. And of course, sales people have been asked or have been taught to ask the worst question on the planet about who else is to be involved because ask a question like well, who's the decision maker we as that question? It's kind of like saying, John, I realized that company wouldn't possibly entrust this to you. So who is the decision maker to Chris incident adversarial attention instead of but what if instead they said, so John who else would have an opinion about the impact of the organization who else most directly impacted by this problem, and who else would have an opinion about how we measure this and who. I think we're totally crazy for measuring. The things you, and I already discussed who might chime in the eleventh hour, we haven't heard from before because our people in companies that may maybe don't have to approve a deal, but they can circulate. Right. Exactly. So so those people to know who they are. And then and then ask a simple question, which says so what's the best way for us to include those people in a way, it's comfortable for you. And so now, what we have is we have this this sheet of paper that we we actually produce these journals of people can use these same side quad internals, and the ideas that people getting notes and all these quads in the end, you have what amounts to a concise business case for that client that determines whether this makes sense to move forward or not yet. And I'm guessing you also advise I know that I'm sitting here thinking if I was going to go through that process. I would make sure that that was a proposal as well that we agreed on on these things, and that's absolute it's what we call. Concise business case, there's a whole template format for it that we tell people. So this what you send the client afterwards, which is all their words. So it talked very little about your solution. Talks almost exclusively about here's what you shared with me. And the funny part is that the client will often say, you know, we had never thought about it that way before. But man, you guys totally get us. This is awesome. We can't wait to move forward. So you've already provided value, maybe more. So than anybody else tried to sell them anything. Exactly. So in terms of educating them, you've now helped them understand why this problem is worth solving. Now, keep mine you educated them using their own information. But now they walk away. Here's the thing. They've just convinced you this really serious issue and guess who else they can then segments themselves. You know, what's interesting when you talk about that impact, you know, sometimes you get somebody's see the impact of growth revenue and profit and whatnot. But we were relying small business owners. They're getting the life sucked out of them. And if they could solve a marketing. You know, maybe they could actually sleep better at night. And I think we could sometimes we underestimate the value of those intangible things that have impact. Absolutely. I mean, people who are wealth managers, for example there most of their message because they can't guarantee a return for people. I mean, they're precluded from even talking about returns. But what they can do is say look people come to us because they're just today. They don't feel like they have a plan. So it gives them a lot of angst. They're looking for peace of mind. They want to know that they have a plan laid out that they can count on rely on and Jesus so zero to ten how do you feel your position for that today? And it's like, oh, I don't know like a five. Okay. Why five well? And now like the waterworks start. Well, because I can't do this. I can't do that. I'm not sure if my kids are going to be able to go to college level. Okay. Now, you got a real conversation. So one of the things that I've certainly discovered over time doing this. You know, I have no problem asking hard questions now because the opposite is terrible. But somebody starting out sometimes, you know, they they may not feel the posture to be able to get in a conversation about impact with somebody. Because hey, I'm just there actually here, sell you Z. Do I have permission to to ask about impact? Do I'm just I'm suggesting that that's probably a problem that people feel is that well, so here's the thing. If I if I tell somebody your job is going there and sell the stuff whether people need it or not then then I've just created my own problem. If I say, your job is determined, first and foremost, these people have a problem with solving. And you can be totally transparent with the client and say, look, we just don't know whether or not this is going to have enough of an impact for you to make it worthwhile. And if this problem is significant enough to make it worth solving. So I just want to ask you some questions because last we want you to do is spend money, and and by something that isn't worthwhile for you. And that should right off the bat. Let somebody put their sort of you know, sh salesperson shield up down. Right. Exactly because it's referred to as the same site. Pitch falls, this model of entice disarm and discover so in that example, before when I said, well, gee, our clients law firms come to us on their face in these issues notice that after I described the problems that we solve with great results. I said, but, you know, not everyone we talk to the right fit for how we solve that. And it allows someone to say, oh, you're not like all those sales people who just swear that. Oh, yes, we have. We we have the perfect solution for you. What's your problem? Again. You know, it's it's. It's kind of like if a surgeon came to you and said, hey, John, listen, I get you a great deal like next Tuesday for this tennis, elbow surgery. You know, like, why don't they have tennis elbow? Okay. What if I discounted it? What what if I can get on money and senators day, and it's like, but I don't think I've tennis elbow. What if we did both arms for the same price? It's like, dude. I don't think I have the condition that you treat. What if I get your spouse involved too? It's like, you know, it just that's what it feels like it's awful. But one of the things that you're saying in not saying it's implied. But I think it's worth reminding people is I think we have to we have to have a good handle on what it is that. We're actually good at what problem we solve the right situation. You know, I know again after years and years and years of doing this, you know, within five minutes or so I can sort of say, yeah. This is gonna be a good fit or not or we can really help this person or we can't. And I think that you know that comes over. Time. But I think that that's something that people really have to spend some time wrapping their head around. You know, a client. That's not a good fit is probably not gonna be profitable is probably gonna turn into a tractor. You know at some point. Sure. So you know, how do people simple question? But I think, you know, how do you advise that people get a real handle on on what they're good at solving. Well, it's it's it's funny say that the it's one of the most challenging questions asked people sauce Saucedo. So give me one of the problems that you solve and most often their response is description of their service. So for example, if I if I said to someone and it wouldn't be on your team because you people your team understands this. But if I said to somebody who did digital marketing, so what problems do you solve? But we we build websites and social media campaigns get I don't I don't think that's a problem. That sounds like a service that you offer. What problem does that solve? And so the the example that I give people is using term a buddy of mine, Bob Lennon coin called an elevator rant. So the idea. The elevator rant being the upside. Down version of the elevator pitch is that you got an elevator. The doors are about to close right before they close someone six their arm in the door spring open to people represent your ideal. Client, get on the elevator with you the doors close. What would they be complained in one another about something that when you hear it, you think man, we can solve that anybody else? In fact, they're lucky to be on the elevator with us because we can really help them. And so if you put yourself in that context, they're not going to say, oh, you know, I need a digital marketing firm 'cause I Google digital marketing and nothing came up. That's that's not going to happen. But they might say man, I'm sick and tired of spending all this money on advertising marketing, but it's not affecting how many people walk through the door. How many people buy our products or? I'm tired of spending money on stuff. But I'm not sure which stuff is working which visit. So I feel like we may be spending money in areas that don't matter and not spend enough in areas that do make a difference. So you tell people where they can find out more about your work and same side selling, and you've mentioned a couple tools, and I think you have those on your website as well. Absolutely. So if you visit same side selling dot com, you'll hear all about the buck. And there's the bonus material in case studies and the like, and then I'm impossible not to find on on social media online at Ian Altman. So it's Ian dot com and undecided recession media platform. It's Ian Altman. Thanks for joining us. And hopefully, we'll see you out there on the road or maybe somewhere in the midwest. Even soon enough, let's hope so John take care.
RHOC: Beach Blanket Sting-0
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We are selling tickets for the twenty one grubbier wolves the golden crappy on january twenty first live and streaming to you. We've got a lot of really great funny special guests lot of bravo people going to be there. It's going to be in a mason time guy so get your ticket links over at watcher. Crap dot com. That's also where you will find links to the ballots. You can make your voice heard twenty to twenty one k on the kind of vote in that matters. Yeah it's gonna be super super fun. You definitely do not want miss it. i'm excited. it's a week as a week. Away is so You know time is running out soon. Get on it. That is going to be saen and today. We have the real housewives of orange county season. Oh i know the big season finale for orange county A lot of a lot of exciting stuff happened And it starts with shannon and atta line setting a table And so he petting archie because Sophie is going to be heading off to college. So so shannon has decided to Make last dinner. So she goes into the kitchen to check on the ribs. Because when you think of shannon madore you think this is a woman who makes ribs. You know so. It's like i know like you know. Like i know ronnie you're in the land of ribs austin texas but can they really compared shannon by doors ribs. I mean just look as someone who's always been trying to lose weight since i came out I've always been very annoyed by ribs. Just because when you're thin you can see ribs. You know. I've never seen my ribs like for all i know i don't even have ribs. You know so. I've just always been very triggered by ribs. So that's what i'm feeling. And then i had to remind myself i've closed the old her and it's a whole new world now and i'm going to be okay with ribs. I'll be okay on tv. Well i'll tell you who else with them shannon herself. She opens up her oven. And smoke comes out. And it's another one of those moments where shannon shows just how wacky she has burn my face of the ribs smoky. Wow i'm i'm so happy i'm so happy my hope you enjoy these ribs which are being served to you by freddie krueger k. At oh wow. Wow you know what i am sick of. I'm sick of hearing about waco texas kay. I'm sick of it and you know why. Because i've been watching a lot of hgtv this weekend or last weekend And you know those people from waco. That chip and joanna are on like twenty shows now and now. They're going to have their own network chip and joanna something or other. Shut up. joanna at this is all they do. They go well. What's and he acts like an asshole all the time just like. Oh there's a big man boy you know there's the big man like no you're controlling person and you're trying to hide it with your hijinks and we could see right through them but yeah so back to ribs so shannon's like well. John and i have is amazing when you can go through a rough time with someone and then he oh from fat. That's good and you know what. That's what john jansen. I have mcguire. You really are in love because now you're saying both of his name's yeah exactly and he sounds like he should be a local newsman. By the way. I'm john jansen. And here's the five o'clock cocktail one. Refresh her so just glad they got that in because they might be six and she's like well drink. I can't believe you said something about okay. I'll have pellegrino because i'm not alcoholic. I need to pellegrino the gut to hit making it and hers is a huge like pint. Glass they keep showing him drinking cocktails ever since like that. Rumor was brought to light and episode to ago. They just always cut the him drinking cocktails. It's hilarious well. They propelled toast to. Don't i'm so proud of me for raising you and you've overcome so many obstacles that your father gave you you missed. You didn't have a problem. Which was gorgeous hat. You didn't have a that ball. Which i was so classy at and she didn't have a graduation rock and roll at so god i thought for me. I mean you didn't have a lot of things. You didn't have a father who was present because he cheated on me and by extension our entire family You didn't have grace. That comes with a father who doesn't pose naked on instagram. There's that to you and you didn't have picky gumbel sin ruining chapter of your life so hey wait to watch from sidelines. So sees she tells us sophie. Let's be honest. it's the most similar to me. She yeah she's so beautiful. She's had so many hardships. She wears dresses with puffy sleeves. How god yes. Sophia's the most is the one who's the most like me. She has a positive attitude and is smiling all the time. I mean if that's not shannon. Before i is it mike. Do i have a positive attitude. Negative thoughts. I'm flight so sophie. What are you most excited about for school. And she's like a fresh start on. Sorry sophie go ahead a fresh start. That is a very thoughtful answer. So wow wow gosh goodness said it better myself so could you say it any better know. Is it something that i might say. Yes and the twins you guys went to the same school. Did you even know each other. Not maybe went to the same bar that includes alcohol. I shouldn't have said. Let me take a three three that we went to the same debutante ball but we went to the same. I mean i remember when i was a youngster and i went to the prom. Oh sophie you don't have that well you know. You have to her experiences. I have prom and your experience was getting. Your mother. Almost killed by corona virus. So that bad you have that memory thankfully at least you have the experience of not doing laundry while your mother was dying and letting archie poop. I love you remember that day. You'll always remember. You won't have a song you'll just have the song you listen to instead of doing chores. Do that one more time and the next celebration will be eating self as ramps hop friday. Speaking of what did my daily meet arrive now so then we had our daily. We are dealing. Meanwhile this is actually tuesday's daily meat so now we transition to a new scene. I don't know if you noticed this. But like the editors on the show are clearly board because they just went back to their second grade toolbox. We just see like Like a wide shot of mountains or warlike newport beach or something den like four different boxes sort of like grow on the screen with people doing things they like grow become big boxes and then they become a little boxes again. It was like that one effect in the final cut. Sweet that never gets used like. Let's use it today. The us every single one of them today. It was so funny like it's the season finale. Let's us every transition in the final cut. Tool do we have the star. Wipe ready star white star. Wipe the this like. What do you call the one where everything's scrolling by you horizontally it's called like i think it's a push i think no when there's when there's a bunch of postcards one of those turney things and you turn the thing around with called yeah like turntable. Yeah or young thinking why are you talking about. Are you tell you like a box slide. Where the screen was making the people. I was really venetia. I was hoping for a venetian blinds transition. That's a classic. That's a good one We do it to go to emily's house. And like i'm going to have a beach party. You know what we're going to spray paint bottles because on a party planner as well as a lawyer. Yeah they decide to resurrect this old story again also parties so we see her like with her kids car but all craft. She makes all these invitations and then she has literally applied everything to these invitations. And when there's like one piece of glitter left to be put onto them. Gina shows up. She's like han. Hi and. Shane opens the door. And she's like you. Look good shane his. I didn't look good before a recovery circle on honor guard order. But kind did he say. I've missed accepting of covid recoveries so Sick only going one win. New england with jack hamman. She's basically becoming the lady from all in the family. The mom yeah. I'll the way the invitations with decorated the way. The call six five hundred square feet of space. So emily like all. How does i like this beautiful beach. Party with low. Tables pillows will put messages in bottles. I'm a party planner and she hard getting. It's really hard getting that vision live in orange county by the beach. People do that all the time. So gina offers to help. But everything's done so they go outside choi on the they start gossiping about shannon. And emily's like wool. You know. I heard from kelly. And she's mad at you because i heard that salmon smelt at you because you didn't check in on her off gina's like only go wait. What and before we go too far down this path. I just want to point out that as they walked outside. Emily called back to shane and said when the water boils you need to put the chicken in it. What boiled chicken are they making for dinner right now. This is not sound good. I'm glad you're a party planner. Not caterer 'cause yeah. Yeah i mean i know people boil chicken to shred it but like i feel like nowadays like the new thing is roasted chicken to shred it. Like people. Realize as more flavor rusting. Anyway i'm just concerned about that boiled chicken. That boiled chicken. Emlyn shane or making yeah But would e broiled chicken doesn't sound like ought to get home and make boiled chicken for shane. No seasoning just watering chicken. His favorite So genus like apple. I had this conversation with shannon which she told me. All these things about sean and hubbard relationship and how. She doesn't feel good about it. Like i don't understand what she wants. Quo every fifteen minutes. You know what. I call it ten times today in. It's like everything's perfect and then you get to that one call everything's tad rebel and then the next it's perfect. Forget it's driving me crazy. Yeah i'm starting to think that shannon might be a high maintenance friend. I don't know if you get that. Sense ronnie yeah So yeah basically shannon is always calling any. She's manic either. Everything is terrible and you're worried about her or then she's fine. She's mad at you for even bringing up that she had me. Problems is a genus. Like yes she never calls me. Ask out why i'm doing. Yeah and she's like she's like no one relationships with shannon have tendency to be one sided and even that one soy. I'm doing bad i mean. Why is she mad at me. so emily's like yeah. She's told me that things are good with her guys while shakin why she mad at me. It's clear she doesn't give a shit about me. Yeah pretty much. I mean this is like the ongoing story. I mean i hate to say that tamara's right because and we see tara being like you never come may patch but yes shannon we like recurring thing where people are saying that shannon calls like every half hour and every time she calls she's like a little bit drunker which is has a little more drama going on you know Ping pong it. kelly. And rick sowell also. Yeah yeah ping-pong over that yeah. I don't like losing your so. This is the biggest twist he basically is like. I think that we should have a small ceremony that's meaningful and then we'll have a big party when it's right to travel and kelly. I think that's the right thing to do. And like how is this a thirty second lake flavor moment for for the rest of the seed and it's an entire story arc. Cynthia bailey can't even come to this resolution as quickly as these. How is it that kelly and rick are able to figure this out before the transition music has even faded out at the scene. Yeah kelly tells us. I was married twice before and now i know that i need someone who are mostly physically loves me. The what is it with how sweat like this is the second housewives show. We were talking about salt lake city earlier in the week. Thank everyone socked that they should get married to somebody that they love. I know like what the hell kind of alternate universe is. It's like wow. I learned something. I should really marry for love egmont. Because someone's six foot tall or rich. Yeah congrats so i'll learn something so kelly is talking about. How elizabeth invited bronwyn to this party. That they're going to be that that emily is putting together. The bronwyn never responded and so kelly like sober rollins different. I mean i don't recognize. She's angry she was volatile. And i don't wanna play in the dirt only play the doors gross which is hilarious coming from kelley. And it's like it's this hilarious. Kelly saying stay off your phone So kelly's like yeah. I haven't even talked to her and like see. You guys aren't close anymore. See really you still like her. Like i would work how we talk like. She was a good time. Sally is that the second time she said that. Good time sally this season. I'm like i've never even heard of this phrase. Good time sally. Is that a thing. i'm gonna look it up. This is a good time valley. We're good time. We're saying it on salt lake city because good time girl but there is a song called good time sally. Nineteen seventy two. So there you go. We learned something. And rick by the way is the voice of reason. And he's like well. Maybe you should talk to her and find out like an seller. What's bothering you about her behavior. Ooh ooh i just don't think she's authentic and he gets your authentic making your authentic into like something sexual cheesy. I know so now. Elizabeth is going to finally meet with a psychotherapist. So this woman comes over to elizabeth house and She elizabeth is saying like. Oh my divorce was cryonic like my childhood off everything because it hurts so much. Aw yeah and she's like you know. I just tend to laugh things off or look at it and the doctor's like actually that's a really good coping skill laughing. You know it's good and abattoir was so bad right now. How can you ought. And so then they start talking about the trauma that she endured as a child and the sexual trauma and you know. I'm not gonna obviously make fun of that. Super sad and elizabeth is like you know basically if i am honest with people. They don't believe me. Anyway you know. And then how am i supposed to just say like hi. I'm elizabeth. i was molested. Like i don't want to be honest with people and she's like well. Yeah it's not safe to say that right when you meet somebody and elizabeth's like yeah but then they call you a liar because they don't know you you know it's like you're not opening up to them. Yeah and she says that when she was young she was told that she was like she could never raising down anything about what was going on. Otherwise you'd be in trouble and so she lived in deep fear that she would lose her family. You know ya and all this is really sad and staff. But i don't think that you have to be like hi my name us elizabeth and this is my childhood trauma to people. Were getting on you because you were telling so many lies about other things to know so you don't have to do that either. So exactly elizabeth. Well i'm aware though. And i just don't know how not to be a weirdo. And she's like well what what would what does what does the real user black. It's like i don't know. I don't know i just feel like deep terms out. Just be a little unbelievable hypocritical on forgot unprepared my mom pedal or did that shroud with the sentence there. I don't know but i'm dancing with hats. You're onto something. I don't know but a scrim just came down behind so i think these backup dancers. Come through your during this entire session. So then we go over to the beach party which is being thrown at elizabeth's house and the brother is a yeah. The brother is going to be the bartender and Elizabeth getting her makeup don. Emily comes in to say. Hi and staff and elizabeth shows her a text from bronwyn. Gore's coming anita talked bronwyn. Because i wrote her today. I said the day i was thinking of you. Were diop's thinking of your heart. The other day. I sent it said that we're par- i say you know you have a photo suit with team. I came even didn't even say anything and then the next day takes back doing. Thank my house. Unbelievable hypocritical if i show mushroom health win is basically acting like she's really carrying on camera but when the cameras aren't there she's like. Why is this bitch texting me. Yeah pretty much. And it's like it's very obnoxious. Okay like that's the thing that will always be the b that will always get me onto someone side like we utech that someone and they didn't tax back at an appropriate time and there were cold to you and you know they were acting like they were going to be warm to you. Dad has bullshit okay. bullsh- app. Emily gives her the benefit of the doubt. So maybe she was just being sarcastic because look she interpreted as you. You know just saying it all came together. I mean you know like if somebody texted me that i would say why also like gave them older showers. And i did all this. Got it organized. Which is correct. I don't know why she's she's being theater but yeah that's that's a stretch. Elizabeth add nice tax. You know so now. We go over to kelly doing a machine chiro and then shot in is getting her midsection taped up by priscilla one of the great hanger honors of the bravo. Universe she goes. She's like luke she goes from from franchise to franchise doing from the east coast. Yeah priscilla does kyle. Priscilla does shannon. Priscilla does new jersey people everywhere anywhere. There's a bravo camera. Priscilla in still of so she's getting taped up and she's like well. Let's be clear. I have the covid sixteen. I need more than my three spinks. Remiss yeah so they base space spatially priscilla's like duct taping her like her intestines against her light backbone and then we go over to bronwyn and so very excited for the party and she tells us again that she's going to live her life the way she wants to. You know which as we said. Last week is kind of hilarious. Because she's doing everything that she was so mad about her mom doing the past the past season and a half so now she's doing it so sorry and she's getting her sexy. Look on for the party. I'm gonna make changes in my life. And so she tried on her for sorry and gets naked. You now like fritz on her dress and she's like you know what being around. Shari made me realize something is lacking with sean. And she's like this is hot right shari's haha and stars like. Oh my god hot. Look at your boobs. And then she's like yeah. It's hot and saen watson he goes. Wow looking hot. And she's like she like fully ignores him. I felt so bad for is just being so meet and then she goes when sean walks into the room. It's clear that he's not welcome. I'm like okay bronwyn. I have been like. I've been feel supportive of her journey. I think that i've i've been really appreciative. That she's been. I feel very open about the alcoholism and what's been going on but like well. She's acting like a teenager. She's like a teenager phase right now but she is acting like a teenager and she isn't a teenager face and that's an annoying as the and now it's just getting it's too much it's too much on. I have been the one who'd been like. No you've been the one who's like a brahmin up in like no no no but now this was just like it's just now just like It's just you know some of us. Some of us were in were in school musicals and still plays and we were. We recognize this behavior. I not just being an asshole and you just want this guy to keep paying for your life while you treat him like shit and that's not cool and you can say you're redefining your marriage all you want to fuck can redefine it in your own apartment that you're paying for you know that's what i say. This is just like laying with her possible girlfriend on the bed. Being addict to him you know and then she tells she tells sorry. I'm so over everyone but you know it's like it's like she is the person that you were friends with an eighth grade and ninth grade over the summer. They like they like hung out with like older kids or they went to like. They went down to the city then met like really cool people and they like or they know a cool new ban. And you're like okay here. We are this is where this is where we're at in the journey and they are like really annoying about it. 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Beautiful job goes. Yeah well i had a vision. Okay you're not via you know what i mean. I don't see any gentlemen with wine bottles on their head. Doing so you with your. Is this the little beads party. I tramped on of so. Kelly comes over the you know. Elizabeth comes everybody's gathering bronwyn comes over and gold glitter mask and everyone's quiet like bromley third and everybody just kind of gets quiet and they sit around and promised just looking around like she does not want to be there. She's she's giving up the energy of like. I'm just going through so much right now. She's doing that thing. And if you notice that one thing that braman has been doing lately is that It's something. I ate and over exaggerated so if someone says are you having a bad day you'd be like yeah or yeah. Yeah but she goes. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah if you're yeah is requiring that much oxygen out of your body you should stop saying yeah just saving much. Just say data. Elizabeth tries to make conversation. Your hair looks great on you know when i texted you the other day. I was impressed with you. I wouldn't be in a smart aleck. I was saying. You were believable stock. I mean i can't even get my boyfriend and my dog in the same picture and bromwich just looks at her and see us I run a tight ship. Thanks thanks y'all gonna take ship. You know so brom so then brahmins like i have my guard up because i thought we had a beautiful moment and then now i'm realizing it wasn't real okay. I guess we'll have to wait to find out what that is. So then here comes shannon. John walks in and causing. Ooh ooh and shannon is santa brings gifts that she was going to give them an arrowhead in their face masks with funny sayings on them. And elizabeth says i my brother said the richest bitch. Newport ronco central richest bench in new powered. I love ed. I'm gonna stripe this with the penis and give it to give it to poor people. Thank you saying. Thank you so much. Emily's is very fun. Emily and gina's is sad or depressing. Show shannon's is an amiga. Kelly's is foot-and-mouth and broad ones is cheers. Too good choices. Yeah so it gets kinda quiet again in kelly's like i love this cheese so they all go decent photo booth staff and d- shots. Emily starts screaming. Shows shows who knew cheers to not dying from cova ed and so they are. They're still by the way like adolescents. House do not actually on the beach but they are now going to migrate over to the beach and they are not allowed to bring alcohol on the beach and brazil. You guys now to see how i live. Let's go come on like oh okay. So they start going down to the beach and elizabeth and kelly are talking and elizabeth like you know someone told me. This is not my place. But i've heard that song left and bromwich been living with a woman and kelly and just walk up there. She is just talking about you. Ooh and then someone's like how long has been out and then someone else responds. They didn't put it out here until we were coming out. Who some people are coming out coming out new that phrase problem coming out. Your kelly's sister used asshole self in this. She's like you don't like sushi. Bronwin from him. Because i eat roughing hs which is hilarious. Kelly goes yeah but you like to smell. I'm sure you're used to. It is so obnoxious that it's hilarious. I mean then so like it's just like not even pretending to be polite. She's just she's always kelly assists like i'm going to start a fight with bronwyn and that's it. I'm just going to be a complete asshole prominent and go for it for the season finale party so problem. That's brewed kelly. Just where he's supposed to just she's like. I don't think it's possible for her but she goes lower. I just can't anymore. it's kelly. i'm what what do you expect. This is what she does emily. Shannon gene are walking together. And emily's like you know Shannon bronwyn tells me lot of things about your relationship like she tells me about things in newport about john being an alcoholic and being some golf tournament whereas he was so drunk his dad how to come gut also add vision and included a beach. So we're halfway there. Yeah as a challenge like what what what what are you fucking kidding me. Let me tell you something audience when you start to create lies around about someone you should do a little bit of research which crack me up because they all got mad brolin for actually doing research. And she's like a few episodes she lives like i'm going to do the research before. Spread the rumors now shoe research. Not only does john mutt play golf. He doesn't like to watch it so you didn't because he does not play out. I don't think he plays golf. You play golf to even even though each who was the span who this mana my house. I can prove you wrong. Because john jansen news five doesn't even have a hobby he was actually a little see monkey He was a piece of foam. That was in a plastic pill. Would you put the plastic pill in water. It grew into jump jansen news. Five thank you. Maybe she meant that jon jansen. Oh i know what it was. If not that jon jansen was playing golf and was so drunk to be removed. He was driving a volkswagen golf and was drunk. So that's the worst that's happening anyway. Have an updated. So emily's like We'll earl had some conversations you know. And then we see the conversation of brahma saying you know at just. I think he's drinking too much and gene is like well the bottom line with me. Is it my it. Like when i was talking about it. It was like coming from a place that concern. I'll really well. If she were so concerned he could have picked up the phone and called me gina. I did call you know after seven minutes. Not fifteen and she was like well. What am i supposed to stay to say you know. Like i don't i don't wanna over set my boundaries or whatever and shannon's like who says sometimes when you vote oh so much shannon shannon says that. She's like she's like well. You could say okay you know. Sometimes event at comes a lot comes out a lot worse than it is like. Sometimes if i say john johnson is alcoholic. Who has a drinking problem. And i don't know what to do with him and i'm so sad on the inside. I'm so sad. Pastor spending is no problem sending everyone taking everything so seriously author and emily's like it's worse than that like it gets dark. You know like you say it's all full and he treats her terribly in that. Your kids don't like him. I mean that's bad sham and you know and then when we ask you about leader you try and make it sound like it's perfect and shannon cries to us. She's like yeah. Well i i drank night. That i didn't think i was going to see my boyfriend again and i call someone. I thought i could tend to. Who when when. I said that the kids don't like john. I was of course referring to the little baby goats that we saw at the petting zoo. Who try to nip at his fingers. That baby can't though the kids the kids in like him. I'm not talking about my children. We have a perfect household. Sold that somehow corona virus into it. But it's perfect. It's perfect around someone. Twenty four seven. It can be difficult. So did we have issues. And i think everyone did let me just say. I think my marriage was so bad. That i didn't think i could get him anything that in the bickering started. I was just devastated. West a perfect fairy tale. Angie thing well listen. Oh sorry go ahead sure i thought able to get meet every single day having the tangents and come to find out one pandemic leader. You can't get me every single day and it was devastating. It was devastating cornishman. Wednesday was turned into rib wednesday all of the sudden. That's what i was gonna crown. Suddenly i'm here on camera pretending like i like ribs and i ain't ribs. You know what. I call a good daily meet. New daily meet pheasants are. Oh my god santa. all relationships are messy. That's okay sorry. I wear i hard my sleeve so then back with kelly and bronwyn analysts. Kelly's like so how's roman. Oh she's doing amazing she's doing really great really kaz. Gina made it. Seemed like she was in bad shape and then we see a clip of bronwyn telling them that rohan has been really bad in quarantine but they're ocd. Going from four to its end and kelly cycle. Yeah so why. Do you talk about how she's doing with some people in that with others. It's like you pick and choose. It's like wishy washy and like one. Minute is one way about you and the other day about you in. Kelly is getting her cell phone so her voice starting to get into like special place that she has everything spending place basically impersonation but all the time. it's like. Yeah exactly as brahmin like how we talk all the time but she really gets like that when she's mad. Yeah i'd so problems like well. Why don't you actually talk to me. You never call me do you want me. It's like it's an easily all of a sudden but like high and as lee and it's like probably will i don't i don't anyone. Yeah i've just housing like the. I have one person i hang out with exclusively and that's it y- you're that you you don't even make any sense you make any fans are well. Then why don't you ask me you you things and the girls. The other girls arrive at the table. And kelly still yelling. So you're you know what i mean. God i don't oh for the love of god there's no alcohol problems like ask me an open. Ask me and so like well. Elizabeth told me that she really felt like she can do with you and then she talked to you a big long text and only say thanks so that bravo and goes well. Did you tell them that. You call me a liar. And i was using my children when i called to check up on you and because no it's like okay so there is kinda funny because like we're just like i was like. Wow what a bitch bronwyn is that she was such a bitch doing that. Elizabeth just trying to reach out to. And i think elizabeth is crazy but at least she's trying to be nice but then come to find out that elizabeth was just being nasty to bronwyn to or at least. This is where i'm at this point. You need to know more about this conversation. Because it doesn't make sense. She says yeah. Yeah you called me a liar and said. I was using my children when i called to check up on. Says she did call to check up on her and mouse when elizabeth said this like where did this. She did and he says well. I have made some comments about bronwyn children that were probably inappropriate undeniable unforgettable critical but i also see that she's on these trips of the and the kids are at home alone and she's just travel here and there and everywhere i was like. Oh then there's that too but then we have one month earlier in there at the lake house. So i wasn't sure if this happened before the scene with bronwyn that was all touchy feely or after but kelly's like she needs to say over their daughter. I mean she's in miami and then she's an aspen and elizabeth is saying yeah. Feel terrible for those kids. I mean should put him through alcoholism announced putting them throw by demand. Yeah and elizabeth saying that. She went through the same thing with with her with her her family and her sister. So that's why she was triggered by watching brahmins or go all over the place while her kids are at home trying to probably pick up. The pieces of what's happening and brown was like well. You know what i have boundaries. And so i took a step back from the friendship and i she tells us i was there for you and i was glad for their free. I was glad i was there for you in that moment. But i feel a little us. And a little to sal but the timeline. I'm still confused by like. Did elizabeth stayed say this stuff before after. I don't know who side to be on right now. It sounds like they're kind of both being astles to each other and talk like normal human beings stuff would actually be very manageable. Yeah like i get it. But they can't yeah. Well it's when you're in it. I guess but then In that time where brown was being really nice to elizabeth. She like elizabeth. She was like working against elizabeth that whole time as she was just my story trauma scene and then i think went back to not like incur again. Yes and emily by the way. Let's give some credit. Emily who spends this entire episode. Just pitting people against each other just say like she said this about you and new said just about her. She said this. Because then emily as gina's like when you dug up dirt on elizabeth and emily turns the shot and then goes yeah she told elizabeth that you're the one who wanted her to get the information and china's like what she does she a w sound symphony. She's like well what wh- which looks left and right very urgently the sound so funny. So elizabeth's like yeah. She said she planted the seed. And brown was like gas shannon's little mafia boss. She drops little bits. Like you know her. Emo is for me to do the dirty work so her hands clean and chance. I told her that. I went on a hike with gina. And you guys said everything doesn't add up. And i said i don't know i said things don't add up things don't add. I don't know maybe maybe she doesn't own her own house. I don't know maybe. Your house is sad and depressing. I i would never say that but yet but maybe someone said it. I would never say that. And it's like well you said what is the rumor in town and i said she's my full of shit and elizabeth goes well. Maybe i've seen to you but it's my true thing smart true no not your truth. There's there's that truth and the truth. I hate when people say it's my truth. Now it's the truth the k. And emlyn just goes. I think there's a level of compulsive lying that's embedded in you and you don't even know you're doing it in your here here here here. You're and i can't even connect the dots. Well that's there's a reason for that. Because i know when i was in natia you know they told us. Part of our programming is that you know. The truth has to be tricky. You know as someone who spent decades in in the jungle training apes to speak sign language. I really didn't have. The communication skills are needed to deal with a bunch of newport betas. That's jin goodall. Ma'am okay as ronald reagan's forma pushing assistance. There are so many hot metal secrets. I just had to be careful not to say too much. So sometimes comes off as lion. But it's just selective information the do think it's easier being the woman who invented post its. It's not we'll tell you that when. I created cosmopolitan magazine. I said this is finally a magazine for the truth That helen gurley brown. I think so cal calicoes give her some slack and she was like a law. Kelly therapy now and i'm going to try strain. My brain is going to be more normal ladies here And what a. What are we talking about. So shannon's oh then elizabeth goes and shane. You're okay and you know what i was going to do for your birthday. You know what i was going to do when you were in arrowhead but you couldn't come off the covid. I was going to happen. Fits neil come to your birthday party aimed of that. We just accused you of being a compulsive liar but this sounds like it's probably true. I i can't believe it. I been neil. I mean you don't have to call him. No that's that's no crew. How i don't call now to. How is this is this is this new number. You just get this phone disarranged right. And he's like who. I've had this phone for eleven years. Ernie like elizabeth. When someone says you compulsively lie all the time you don't realize do it like don't follow it up with a blatant compulsive lie. And he goes who looking for. That's the question and he goes nope that is so representative of elizabeth overall. But you know what honestly. I don't even know who vince. Neal is kelly's heroes talking about bronwyn and again just like every. Every time it's supposed to be honest bronwyn questioned. She shuts me like what's going on with your girlfriend what's going on with you and your husband. You won't talk about it to show us the liberty and emily's like all like this what's going on with you and shawn and problems like Now is in a bad place. Yeah did she know off of its. Yeah yeah getting sober has been really hard on our marriage and we have had an enabling relationship and were codependent and she kinko adult. Let his what we want to know. A you in love was shoe wine. Are you in love with savary. I love her. i'll k. While you know. I seldom anything. Let me try. Let me try. Do you love shari. Yes you want to be with shawn. No is coming to my next birthday party. Probably not. But i'm still exploited nanna. Now this is how we have to say. Do you like vince. Neal yeah yeah. Yeah yeah so. Emily is like okay. Is this girl. Sherry is causing problems in your marriage right. She's well there's big things happening. And i'm not really sure what's going on so it's not that i'm not telling you kelly. There's really big shit going on in my life. And i don't have an answer and sonnen. I've talked about what was happening. And we have a commitment to work on our marriage. I mean he's my life partner. Am i love him. No he knows how i feel. Is he accepting now like okay. So you're just cheating on your husband right in front of his face like what the fuck happening there. And so emily is i. I you know like you know like Like what does surveys like. Well what does shawn needs. Probably not sherry right and brahmins like well. I need her right now. And i'm like well if you make a commitment to make things work with sean. Why aren't you telling sherry. you can't be here. Twenty four seven right. And it's kind of funny to me because brahmins like but i need her. I need her. I need her. I need her. And broand is so mad at sean for being codependent with her right like her thing is like sean enabled me and i think she has a lot of built up resentment about that and she feels like they were very codependent engineered like live her own life but all she's doing is just being codependent with sherry instead. Yeah true and emily's like well you made a commitment to working things out with sawn. Why aren't you telling sherry. I what you said. You can't be here. Twenty four seven because i need her and she goes. But don't you think that selfish and not addressing songs means from one hundred percent. But i kind of need to be selfish right now okay. You're an asshole that's it. I'm sorry you wouldn't be. You wouldn't be acting like this. If sean was poor your ass would have been outta there by now. You're like sitting around. I think who says it later. When they're like well she just wants to keep living her lifestyle and do whatever she like. What what were those renewal of vows like yes. I've out for you to keep paying the bills. I completely agree with this. I think this is bullshit like you can have whatever kind of new age relationship you want to. But your husband is obviously hurt. And you're bringing your girlfriend around like twenty four seven while telling him your your reasoning for that is because he won't get off the phone like i think like in of shit you're doing wrong in a relationship You're winning on that. Yeah i mean i. I don't know about like like the if the motivations are on like this level of like well i'm gonna keep him around to pay the bills. They may may not be. I'm not sure. But i do think that she is a self professed selfish stage right now but just because you admit that you're gonna sell for stage does not mean that it makes it more pleasant for anyone else and it's pretty i think she's doing some obnoxious things now. Yeah she's being a dick so emily is like well. Every decision bronwyn makes life is about bronwyn and i guess the vowel renewable shit was continued to pay the bill. So i can live the same lifestyle. But i'm going to be with my girlfriend which is beyond selfish and she goes so. Is there like an end point where you don't need to be very anymore because you said you need a right now. So does that end at some point. You go back to sean. And she's like well. I'm in no rest to figure that out. yeah and she's like you know She's like in a few months or not like she's like she's like it's not a few months like it's not gonna be easy but but it's what makes me happy. And then at this point gina basically shuts it down. Because she's like i'm sick. She passes this a selfish. We're not we're not gonna make any inroads just goes it makes you happy. It makes you happy. Which is her way of saying and done not talking about this anymore. Because you're being unreasonable. They're not listening to us. And there's no point in discussing us so and emily get up to go. Pee and elizabeth is like you know what let's talk about. What a skinny bitches over here saying. 'look insane and skinny bitch and shannon's like sell property it Someone said On social media that you hate newport beach. And i'd like to know why is that and brahmins. Oh well because of all the trump supporters on the beach. It's really hard living in a conservative town and picky made that choice. You made go leaves leave. Oh go yeah. if you don't like newport beach and don't dumpy. If people were you here and kelly kelly tells us you can get into your van with eight people like the ozarks and you and you can drive out the laguna west. Hollywood or wherever your people are ya. And i just want to be a beacon of light for other liberals. And i'm like i can't believe we are wedging in one last like poorly poorly conducted political discussion from orange county. I don't think there's nothing wrong just like living in san francisco hippies and drug users in greeley able and promise. I'm not moving my family just because you tell me to. It's not this black and white kelly. His limb barikot. You can have different points of view. There's a whole state about people who like potatoes goal there. My favorite thing is when people argue that you can have a different point of view in an attempt to shut you up from what you're trying to say are you can have a different point of view in a different town. Yeah i just that count if you abc point of view dude over there that's freedom. Yes so kelley blue and brahmins like unless they're are different from yours. Kelly you never shut the fuck up and us. Whoa wow. wow this season finale. so i'm going do a jazz hands above my head so elizabeth is live while the reason why i think everyone is offers. Because you post you post like don't don't judge love kitchen happiness. And then you come at every war and what's going on with that. that's undeniable. Believable hypocritical scrimmage from. I'm not coming after anybody right now. Right now and kelly goes. Why are you so intolerant. Sabrina kelly smashing everything about her. Because she's scared everything about me because she's scared and i'm standing up to her. I'm sober. i'm strong. And i'm smart and those are three things that she just doesn't know how to handle mike. No she is annoyed by you. Just can't handle being annoyed very well. Yeah and she's like. Let me just be me. And i'll worry about my own shit and san jose. Can i change the subject. I'm wearing tape. I am wearing day so she starts rolling on the row Ground trying to make it like wacky time again. And then there's awkward procession of husbands who come filtering into the scene. Starting with sean. Who is just like. he's like. Hi ladies as totally oblivious the fact that they just had this entire conversation brahmins talking about how like basically nothing's working and she's being selfish right now and she needs charity. More than sean. Let me have john. Johnson his coming in oblivious to the fact. They're all talking about him having a drinking problem. And they're all just like just wafting in slowly as so bizarre. Yeah i can't believe shannon didn't go after bronwyn about spreading that rumor about john the gov i was surprised. Actually yeah wondering if that's true because this we remind you wouldn't come up with that. Yeah and then shane comes. It reminded me like the end of big business. You know when all walking through the lobby of the plaza and each one of the ladies has like a man. Who's there for them like. Hey let's went on like we should be playing some steve winwood right now. Yeah so saying kemp zana's starts. Cracking jones is ankle al. I don't want to hug anybody. I haven't seen the results at risk for kelly though. Because you want it on this and then there's like Emily falls over the instagram share. And they're just like it's just like now. It's like fun times like sisterhood. Everyone's happy and then we hear the music that plays at the end of every season which is like my favorite music. It's like that melancholy sort of happy because over but sort of sad because we know like these people have tragic loss as like to renew noon. Something like that and that means that like we're gonna get our big end of season wrapup. You know the So we have cheers to brown win for being six months sober and brahmins like Oh i'm sorry. I think gena she trailing lucky to be where i am and like honestly my twenty twenty is still better than my twenty nine teen. Emily still in a tiny house and has taught her children how to use the swiffer. Sweeper bronwyn say her marriage and saying yeah yeah. She's like she's She's like bronwyn is an amazing mom. A good friend and a big old lesbian. I like women and it's beautiful. This is the real me. And i'm going back to college and then emily and elizabeth is now being honest we have thou- and elizabeth is. I've always been all don't understand me. Elizabeth has ended the season as the head over the basketball association of america. Where she goes. Tanner town find towns of basketball players for free play for universities. Jimmy in our haven't show much shacks rod. Now we actually get hot and sweaty and then it turns out that the people from fire brought by swept back to labs and guess what cured corona virus. And you know shannon went through cova and we went through that together that mental bought to me. You know i'm excited about a new. Friendship was shannon and china's. I'm just. I'm just excited to be happy. I have three amazing boy friend. Who's committed and now i knew rip wednesday which should work out. I mean if we can get through rough patches we can get through anything. It's a gift. And i'm lucky to have that. I would say it's as important as my senior prom. Oh i'm so. Sorry sophie kelly. You finally found someone who puts up with you and get you and that's not easy to do. Yeah twenty twenty. It's been awful year. And i feel horrible for you. Guys suckers awesome for me. I look forward to rick's dick all day. Long born again boating and a sleigh kelly as taking photos of rick and rick is saying oh yeah. None of the trump's sewed up to her beats wedding And emily i've your new and have learned the family's important and relationships are important And then shane goes and forget. The fact that i didn't die one last coal of snow Trying on an epa up. And that's it. We're out of here with cheers to twenty twenty one well Because the reunions of next we'll see how those go. Yeah so they made it through that season as a weird weird ass season. Thank you virus. Yeah it's a weird season but you know glad they showed up you know showed up and did it. They are essential workers basically anywhere they were showing up to work when only essential workers were supposed to be going. And you know to people like us. They are essential workers. So thank you guys and i'm glad that bravo kept it appropriate episode length. That was it was like if it had gone on a on any longer it would have been. It would have been really hard but we just. We ended it just where it needed needed to be ended. And now we got our reunions and And then that's that yup while we should have you everybody. Thanks so much for being with us the season and go get your tickets for the twenty twenty one crappy awards january twenty first six. Pm pacific pm eastern. Get them at watch. Crap dot com and don't forget to vote absolutely. We'll talk to you talk to on the next episode. Love your goings by watch. Crap ins would like to thank its premium sponsor saint thing like alison king ashley shabani. She don't take no baloney. She's not just sheila. She's a dan yellow iddles. Let's run some errands with emily. Aaron aaron mcnicholas. She don't miss no trick lists of under weber jamie. She has no less namie. Zip some scratch with jessica tracks. Jesse an okay. She's a little bit looney junie. she's always supplying. It's kelly ryan higher than hi rez. She's lauren peres. Megan you can't have a burger. Without the bird you don't touch the nikki mortgage lateras imax us. Cui ritchie de bay area batches batches and are super premium sponsors. Nancy's season desisto. Better than to bouli. It's and julie. Let's give them a kesse austin and marissa. Somebody get us ten c. of betsy. Md we're taking the gold with brenda silva can't have a meal without the emily sides we will. We will run a rockland. You the incredible edible matthews sisters. Let's go on a bender. With lauren vendor no one makes us feel well like cap meena coochie coochie coo. Give them hell miss noel shannon out of a cannon anthony. Let's get racy with miss. Stacy let's take off with tamla plan. She knows shrinking violet detroit are.
How to Embrace a Competitors Mindset to Grow Your Business
"This episode is brought to you by dot site domains. If you're looking to build a great website for Your Business, you can find a short and meaningful domain name on the dot site domain extension to register visit www dot, get dot site. That's S.. T. E. and use the code self reliance to get up to a fifty percent. Discount on your purchase. Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen and my guest today is Jake Thompson. He is a professional speaker and the chief encouragement officer at compete every day, a globally retail brand that has started in two thousand eleven by selling t shirts out of the trunk of his car. He's also written a book called compete every day the not so secret to winning at work and life so welcome to the show Jay. Thanks for having me John Excited to be here. Are you tired of people telling you talking about you sound t shirts out the trunk of your car. No, no, usually the line. Get more often, the is. Jake from state farm. Do you wear Khakis often on am? That one's Kinda done me done me over, but yeah I know the the t shirt one you know. I did for for a few years and then I just kind of say. Hey was part of the story in an the idea that you do whatever it takes when you get going right business world. Right so so let's explain that t shirt. Regardless of where he sold it it. It it had a specific message in a specific brand. Yeah I was honestly doing marketing consulting I was helping with basic go to market strategies for local companies as a consultant. Really three years two thousand eight finished Grad school and couldn't get a job to save my essentially not even best buy was hiring part time so I spent a handful of years doing that as a consultant in had the idea that I wanted to rebrand wanted to do something bigger than just my name, and in didn't think I really wanted to do marketing consulting forever and started tinkering with ideas of encouraging people at this message of pursuing greatness in every area of your life compete every day, ultimately became that catchphrase that can grew out of it that everyone started to be attracted to connect with. Until at the time. I had six to eight months of trying to fit this brand message into three or four projects. That didn't work. My best friend is a fan of the T shirt company. Life is good out of Boston the little stick figure guy. Ironically stick figures. Name is genetic right? Yeah, so he he challenged me with this idea to try something outside of my comfort zone. Try something new and apparel that I did not have any experience with and so I decided why not the last three number four would printing compete every day on shirts? Put them in boxes in the trunk of My car sold them behind a Jim in Dallas, Oldham, it races and events before I can honestly afford to buy a booth at the expo at pull up and walk around with a bag, talking to people in selling them out of it, so that that was the very beginning of the brand. So. I mean a lot of people who bought the shirt got shirt. Right I. Mean that was that was yeah. That was it, but but was there a sense that they were joining a community by having that message. Ultimately, that's what it built in a way. Isn't it yet yet? You know at the time. It really wasn't that thinking my focus was. How do we become the next Nike the next Lou? That was where I was focused at the beginning in really over the. First couple of years getting out talking to people seeing how people would respond to this saying. I compete for X.. Y. And Z. in this person's competing for ABC. Everybody had different things that they were striving for that. As I started to see those story, hear those stories connect those dots we saw that are competitive advantage. WAS THAT BRAND MESSAGE? How do we tell our brand story? How do we build a community around that? And so after a couple of years of selling t shirts in it growing we really kind of shifted gears. Thanks to conversation with one of our mutual friends Chris Brogan around a few different ideas on the community side, and so I, started heavily investing into. How do we pour into? People build people build just kind of community up and give them this rally cry for their life that Hey I'm I'm going to show up in compete every day? And that's ultimately as you can imagine. What through some gasoline on the fire to help us grow as a brand for the last nine years. So what do you call it the not so secret secret? because. Honestly, in fact, told you hey. These are the six to seven choices that if you made them consistently every day, you'd be like everyone knows that everyone knows that you have to work hard. Everyone knows you have to be consistent and do your best end, but I think a lot of times we overlook it. We overlook the importance of the little things done consistently well, and so that was kind of the. The the play on the title is I'm not telling you anything new. This isn't some magic potion solution. That's going to solve your problem. This is actually just a reinforcement of probably things you've heard most of your life and putting it hopefully in a way and told with different stories in format it starts to click with you perhaps in a New Light, the importance of that choice in this case the seven choices. So. Let's say you woke somebody up to the idea You've certainly by this point. Gathered some stories of people that that have talked about a simple or not so secret as this might be. It's made a difference. Yet I I would say that the biggest drawback is is the application piece of it or the biggest sessions. A benefit has been the application piece in that people that have been around our brand, even and even the community up for years by into the message. They believe in it. They were just looking for new ways to apply to maybe ways that would work for them, and into one of our chapters is around embracing the process, and it's about honestly tracking your work scoring yourself on a daily basis evaluating learning where you need to pivot. Pivot what you need to keep doing in tracking which I think a lot of times, even as business owners, we fail to track certain metrics, and we're not able to evaluate if we need to keep going down that path, or we need to pivot and so this getting the emails. Especially, the early reviews in feedback on the book has been people actually putting into practice discounts have three yards and a cloud of dust, which is not anything new, but it's essentially tackling your three most important objectives every single day in scoring yourself based off of that. You're not going to get everything done on the to do list. You're not gonNA be able to achieve every single goal in a day or even a week, but it helps you to continue moving the ball little by little down the field all the way to the end zone. It is there potential for people to misinterpret the message, so you know this idea of compete every day? I, like I love to go into these like co working spaces for entrepreneurs, and they've got like signs up. That say never never ever give up. You know sometimes you need to I. Mean sometimes you need to decide? This I'm attached to the wrong thing here. So. Is there a challenge you know because like that whole grind and hustle. So, that's so pervasive in entrepreneurs. Sometimes. That gets under my skin. I. You know I'm with you. Despite the fact, my phrase is probably one of the ones. It's misinterpreted when I go sick the thing I have to always address up front. Is I know there's people in the room that love competition in? They see that phrase in there like a man, and there's a large or senator like I don't like sports. I don't like to beat someone else. I'm worn out constantly looking at all these people any defeat. Until our brand and really the message I try to hammer home. All the time is the importance of flipping that script and saying this isn't about you versus me. This isn't about you versus anyone else but yourself. How are you going to show up just a little bit better today? How are you going to be more present? A you know be more focused in your work less distracted today than you. You were yesterday and so when we talk about competing every day, it's a me versus me mindset that I feel is a lot more rejuvenating because you're pushing yourself. You're seeing what you can do. Learn things about yourself versus the comparison game when you're always trying to compete against others, you just turn out and you. You feel just like you talked about that. Hustle and grind every day just worn out. Yet could 'cause I. think unfortunately the sort of. You know knee jerk reaction to competition for me to win. Somebody has to lose yet I think that that's I think that's the part that some. Certainly some people struggle with like you said. Some people are energized by that, but other people like. Hey, we can. We can all win by just following what Archer does That's the that's the tougher message to to maybe communicate. Sometimes it is in, and that's the one that we want to. To Hammer home with because comparison will drain you and one of the chapters in the book, specifically around the idea of leadership is helping others. Rising tide raises all ships. So how are we investing to help? Others change their perspective on competition, so they're not burning themselves out, but there instead constantly just asking. How can I show up better today for team? My customers, my family and just inch by inch percent every day. Raise the bar. So. I saw a picture of the other day of Michael, Jordan, wearing one of your shirts on that. I would have loved that. Had it been on the last dance documentary? That wouldn't. That was the ideal branding? I laugh about you know the Miller lite. Guys had to be watching that when there's the the locker room scene in. They're all sitting around the perfect angle of can every one of those executives like snap picture? Simple. You did actually I. Mean You have had some influencers pickup? Your your your shirts in. That obviously didn't hurt the brand or maybe the message. Yeah, you know it. They have it we. We've really grown well within the baseball community. Just because that sport is such a one that you know the locker rooms, talk and the minor league guys are moving around and a number of baseball. Agents have jumped behind the brand. Quite a few in the Kansas City System as well for your team. There locally and that's been fine, but the fun thing I tell people when they ask about that. Is You know hey, so and so on this TV shows Warner shirt or you know these athletes have worn your shirt and I laugh and I said well. You know those feel good. It's cool to see that, but in terms of what is done for the brand, the micro influencers. influencers have actually done more people that have you know? A thousand, two thousand and three thousand followers, but are really engaged with their audience does have done tremendously better in terms of helping us move more products and introduce more people to the brand Then you ever think some of the celebrities do in I, think business under sometimes we forget that we love the feel good. Pat On the back of a big name wearing our product or talking about us. You know at the end of the day. How many products removing in people's hands in a lot of times? It's going smaller. It's it's turning down our focus a little bit to the influencers that are huge benefit. To us, and they have been really over the last nine years of really helping. Get that message out. Have you ever tried looking for a domain name. Chances are that the first few options you tried were not available, and you're not alone. I mean over sixty five percent of domain name searches actually fail because you know all good domain names are already taken. That's not necessarily true in fact I, got myself self reliance dot site where I talk about my book, the Self Reliant Entrepreneur and share content to help people become self reliant in their entrepreneurial journey. You too, can get your very own dot site domain for as low as a dollar ninety nine visit www dot, get dot, s it e or click the link in the. Description on the show notes page search for your unique dot site domain and use the code self reliance to get fifty percent off your domain purchase. So obviously, there's a lot of We talked about entrepreneurs in this idea of competition and and. Clearly. Athletes? That's always you know part of their DNA. How how much is your message turned to for the mental game? You know of competition at every level. Yeah it. It really has more so than I expected them. When I started you know a lot of it i. don't like the idea of of really heavily pushing being a mindset coach for lack of a better word, I still think it has a stigma outside of maybe a locker room with certain certified professionals but a lot of the work I do from a leadership perspective with one on one clients or with teams is around just helping reframe that mindset in a look at it more of leadership development. Because how we see ourselves as leaders, how show up as leaders refrains perspective in really it's not massive changes overnight we talk about. How do you work at like any other muscle? If you're going to get out and go, run a marathon, you're gonNA start with a small training program year to run a half mile the first day or a mile on your slowly going to build just like you would training. Physical Sense in the gym works the same way in this sense. What is the one to two things? We can add to our habits and scheduled this week in little by little, build up over time to where you work that muscle I just like you would anyone in a physical sense. I think one of the challenging things for entrepreneurs and a lot of people who've done it for any amount of time. Don't realize sometimes. I think it's physically demanding frankly but it certainly certainly mentally draining and demanding. And I think that youngblood used the word reframing because it's one, I use all the time in the context of entrepreneurs because I I think that's probably one of the. Biggest skills of survival. Is reframing, you know. We get knocked down so many times. You know the reason you get up to compete every day. is because you're able to reframe. What that getting knocked down was here to teach you? And I think that that's a that's A. I think that's the most resilient entrepreneurs. That's what they're capable of doing and I think that's probably the of your message. It is in NFL like as as you very well. Just shared their, and can attest to entrepreneurship is a rollercoaster, and without the right perspective, or with the right reframing of certain situations and opportunities are missed opportunities. You're gonNA feel everyday like you're on a roller coaster. and you're going up and going down going up in that. Yo Yo effect can mentally wear you out. And it's really easy for us a lot of times to get distracted by things that aren't as important in the business. Things of that are outside of our control, and so the better we are at refocusing reframing certain situations in looking at them as learning opportunities, the better were able to show up and compete because we're not. Losing Focus Energy just willpower even to everything outside of our control that I can personally attest to has happened in in. It happens pretty quickly in a business sense, because you're probably running a million miles an hour with your hand in a million different things, and so it's the constant training of tighten the focus focus on what I'm. GonNa do today. Don't get worn out or too distracted by what a week two weeks ten weeks ahead. But worry about how you're GONNA, show up in competing wind today, and then one day after another you get the results you crave because of the work you do each and every single day. Have you done any work We're schools I'm thinking even the down to like the junior high level with this message. Yes, so junior highs about as young as I would prefer to go. Having spoken to those audiences, highschools do really well. I have quite a few high schools actually this past year in this upcoming year that I'll be speaking to a college. Athletics programs obviously are very natural transition and then sales teams, business associations, business owners have a message works well, but the kids is. We just modified a little bit. You know the phrases in the book. I had a very corporate book written I in. It just wasn't working in I got asked to speak to big brothers. Big Sisters of North Texas rechange my entire keynote around catchphrases for kids, and as I was looking at us at Oh. This is actually the book, and so the message is work well all the way down. From the adults all the way down into the junior high because it's, it's short catchy things that you can remember if you can just remember a phrase can hopefully remember to do it as well which helps process of of adding those habits and making those right choices. I mean how much of of this is 'cause. You're right. I mean there's only so much raw is gonNA. Take you somewhere right. So how much of this is about forming new habits, or is it just awakening? The NOT, so secret secrets! I would say it's a good mix. You know there's there's a little motivation in there, but more often they're. A handful of the chapters are around here's things. You need to be aware of the importance of effort, sometimes over talent, the importance of intentionally choosing who you surround yourself with who your friends who your social circles who you know, go to from a mentor ship standpoint. Who are you learning from a, but then we additionally give the application of like. Here's how to do this on a daily basis. Here's the actionable takeaway. For embracing the process scoring yourself every week, and then at the end of every chapter we include. Here's what this looks like this chapter concepts in your business. Here's what it looks like with your career, your health and fitness in your life so that you start to see the parallels of here's what they talked about. They mentioned in the chapter, but then here's a very specific correlation of. Of. You know when it talks about doing your best every time. What does this look like in your career setting? That's making sure you're showing up early you're you know you're being proactive with certain projects and work. You'RE NOT GONNA. Mail it end because you feel like the job is beneath you or you don't really. WanNa work on that project and so we're very intentional with that because. As, you know you know raw raw only takes you so far. You need to see sometimes examples that you can directly relate to or application that you can immediately put into practice, and that's where you start to see the career the life the work change is putting those little things into practice. So, if coaching is not really on the horizon for you than than what's next for? Compete exit. Yes, so next book to which I feel is a little bit crazy but yeah the speaking in book two. Similar to I think a lot of people. When you're writing at first book, you get ideas for new ones, and they don't quite work, or or you're filling too much area, and not enough in the others so I have a nice evernote document with probably three to four different books set in their different kinda phrases and concepts. We want to run with so now that we've finished recording the audio book in in getting ready for a new little podcast project ourselves. A book to is is in progress being outlined as we speak. Right, so how can somebody find out not just about the book, but maybe about the community in general because I know one of the things that I've heard you talk about is that? When you develop this kind of community, it's given you the ability to to not only travel, but to have other people in the communities that are in other cities that they're actually supporting each other's goals, and and you know holding each other accountable. Yeah, that's that's been. The really good part is asking in who needs to be held accountable for getting people connected. Connected because a lot of times, we feel you know if we're not connecting with other people, maybe online or outside of our immediate circle that sometimes we're the only ones struggling with certain challenge is I know your listeners can relate to. If you're the only business owner you know sometimes with who you go to talk to about certain challenges initiation, you fill all an. An ice isolation of the best place to connect with us is compete every day. Dot Com. You'll see a link not only to the book, but to the facebook community get connected there Get on our email list where we send out just a weekly email with usually in actionable, take away in a quick lesson as well as links out to the podcast or Or some other things like that, but compete everyday dot. com is the perfect hub, and then if anyone is active on social media, you can find compete every day on any of those channels in I. Do run those accounts as you can always pop over, say hi and happy to answer any questions about what we talked about today or anything you see there onsite. Awesome, we'll have those links in the show notes so jake thanks so much for stopping by and hopefully will run into you when we get back out there on the road against someday thanks John.
Why All Business Owners Should Become Authors
"Domain name is critical to ensuring the success of your small business, but it's got a little harder. But now, you can choose dot US domain to help your business. Stand out. Reserve your dot US web address today. Go to launch with dot US and use my promo code podcast for my special offer. Hello and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen my guest today is Dan journal. He is a, publicity and marketing expert and author of about a dozen books, including one we're gonna talk about today. Write your book in a flash. So Dan, thanks for joining me. Hey, a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, John. So I find myself my listeners probably getting tired of this by reminiscing these days about healthy old days. And folks that have been doing this as long as I have. And I think you, and I probably I bumped paths maybe close to twenty years ago around your service that I think still is around the difficulty PR leads you remember that? Yeah. I it still isn't it's still helping a lot of people. We've a lot more imitators now, which is fine. Every business has imitators. And that's cool proves the concept. And I also forces me to be more creative and saying what else can I do to help more people. And that's why sites right. My new book, which is called right in your book flash. Yeah. We're gonna we're definitely talk about that. But let's let's just I talk about books in general and writing books in general, I wrote my first I don't think I wrote my first book till two thousand six you wrote years, but ten years before that maybe on a topic that. You know, it was just getting started internet marketing. So what what what's for you? What's changed about book writing? I mean, it was it was hard sort of flogging work back. Then a lot of stuff's come along. That's made it easier. Hasn't h sure has back then there was no such thing. Really a self publishing was if you're self publishing was very long expensive difficult today. Mo- many books are self published and it's pretty easy. You just write your ball show your book around to other people to get some thoughts of back as well. But the actual printing processes pretty easy. Go to kindle direct publishing which is part of Amazon, and you upload your book. And bingo, you're in business. No, you hire a artist on five or to cover for you. Maybe a higher someone on five or to lay out the book for you. So looks a little bit better than than what words can do and your business when I self I wish my first book was really nineteen ninety one. It costs thousands and thousands of dollars. And then when my first commercially published book, what was done to book, your referring to the online marketing Hamburg, which was one of the first books market on the internet twenty five years ago, a traditional publisher handled that and of course, then thousands and thousands of dollars for proofreading and copy editing and publishing and printing and distribution warehouse, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, anyone can write a book really fast getting online and start making money and helping people. So here's a question. I do get a lot since you talked about self published versus the traditional publisher is there. I mean is there one way that you should go? Is there one better another do? They have pros and cons curious. How you answer that when people ask you sure can take about an hour answering it, but I hear here's a short answer if you can build your house yourself where you can hire general contractor. A lot of money. It'll be done a lot faster. But you have to shoulder all the burdens yourself, the copying the proof reading the layout. The ISP numbers loading times on Bubba, blah, blah, blah, you can you can do all that. And you can do it really really fast. So if you're purposes to get your book out fast have the big business cards yourself to help you stand out from everyone else. Themselves publishing is definitely the way to go. If you are so lucky to get an offer from publisher who wanted to print your book, and publish your book. It will probably take them about two years to get an into their production cycle. So if you wanna make an impact fast, self publishing still the way to go. And if you're very successful at you will attract a publisher who put it into their wishing cycle. Yeah. I just for context, I'm just finishing up or just finished turned in my main strip for my six book, and I signed the contract for that book last July turned it in may I and it's going to drop to return seconds. So that's. That's a real today. Time line still for the traditional publisher. Right. That's that's not bad six months is not that. And if they, and they publish it, then they're shouldering the cost of printing, proofreading copy editing, and all the other things. So you have to be brilliant, which is good. Well, you know, I'm sure thing, Dan. So that's. That's what no problem with that. So so here's the big question. And of course, and they used to be people would sit around and literary rooms and think not everybody should write a book. But you're suggesting that every business owner, let's let's stay in that category. Because that's my listeners are generally sh-. Do you would you go as far saying every business owner should have at least thing about about? Definitely I just worked with a one of my clients who owns a h back company in Ohio, and he wanted to to stand out from the crowd, and it's a really good book. And it's a book that can make him stand out from all the other competitors who have good jobs good recommendations. And everyone on this call has has the same thing we both onto good schools. We'll have clients recommendations. So how's the prospect going to separate one from another? It might be because you're the person who wrote a book and a person who writes a book his an expert there the knowledge. Expert, and if you give your book away at networking meeting or breakfast meeting, or you are more proactive and send it out to your top five prospects. They will keep the book forever. Be on their book shelves that will stand as a silent sales person for you for a long time until they're ready to say, you know, I didn't h system I met a guy that networking session. He wrote a book an orange. Oh, there it is. And bingo, you get the job. So that's why every business person needs a book to stand out from the crowd. And I'm glad you used H vaccine example, because I think, you know, it's getting harder and harder stand out as a marketing consultant with the book, you know, there are a lot of fields that that are pretty crowded with that. But the real opportunity is in those industries where people go no h back contractor has a book, you know, that stupid. I mean, that's the real opportunity, isn't it? It is. And and you're right in saying that for marketing consultant or a coach or lots of other businesses, everyone has a book. So if you don't have a book, then you are not even at the starting gate, you're not gonna be taking seriously because everyone else does have that entry level requirements of book. So I'm let's just stay on the H fach person. Just for grins, I work with H books and trying to get them to to even give me an idea for a blog post, sometimes is hard. I mean, how do you coach people again? I I know the answer is obvious. But a lot of people don't get this. I mean, how do you coach people in the fact that they do have the information? They you know, they their stuff that they know that people would want to write about. I mean, how do you get that out? I'm sure there are a couple of ways. I you have to realize the only reason someone will buy a book any book or read a book any books is because they have a problem, and they need to solve it. So you should serve they your prospects. And say what is your biggest problem? And then you have a chapter that talked about those a problems, and you show them to be show them rather that you are the trusted leader who's been there and done that who can take them from mess to success because you've done that. And you've proven that with your book, you know, love sharing tips resources were small business owners and one of them is you've got to choose the right web address for your business, and it's gotten harder all the good names are gone, but you can take short relevant dot US web address, and maybe come up with the best possible name for your business while it's still a valuable. I want you to reserve your dot US web address today. So I've arranged a special offer for my listeners. Register your dot US domain for just a dollar forty nine for you. Plus, you get free website builder and hosting services for six months so to go get my special offer go to. Launch with dot US and use my promo code podcast. That's. Launch with dot US promo code podcast. How far do you think up like that that they're not angling for the New York Times bestseller list as you called it? It's a great business card. It's marketing brochure almost so how far does a person that rights book with that objective in mind go in in terms of selling what they do. I mean is it do educate educate educate, you hope they call you or educate, and then say, call me, you do bulk you educate, but people are suddenly learning that they that that they know like entrust you and the last chapter can very much be call to action that says, okay, if you're in it you need by help here. Here's how I help people. You can even have one sheets that are advertised in the back of the book that are real direct calls action. Like like like a page on your website. So people can take action because you know, think about it. If you're a reader, you don't know that the authors actually doing. The work. They think that the author is a writer. They don't know that they're actually the provider of those services you they don't make logical connection. You do. I do we think they do. They don't. So you have to tell them that. Yes. You can install their heating system. Yes. You can install swimming pools. You can be their dentists. So yeah, you you have to be over. But during the writing we'll go to you, you can subtly pepper your stores by saying when I consulted with this company, or when I installed this deck for in the subdivision, blah, blah, blah. Then people say, oh, yeah. He installs decks and subdivision. So their ways to do it that are subtle and affective. So if I'm sitting there thinking, okay, this sounds like a good idea. But like what's involved in this? I mean, what are the steps really that that somebody needs to at least count on either doing themselves or hiring somebody to do. Well, those are two great options. And I do work with people who don't have the time or energy or -bility to write books themselves. I would walk through that process. But for someone who would like to themselves, you know, some people like to write and some people don't like, right. If you don't like to write don't for an office podcast because you can dictate your book. Fact, you may be doing twenty minute sessions at the rotary club talking about how to choose the dentist or foot four and beleaguered or hiring a realtor or selling your home or all those other ideas, we'll report that and then give it to a transcriber and jokes. They're automated transcription services on the internet now, and then give it to an editor. And they'll turn it into readable material for you. But really think about the eight problems that your potential audience has and those become the H after's in your book. The first chapter is an overview chapter that tells your story who you are the struggles you've had how you came to success in the field. You are today, and what people are gonna learn by reading this book. The then you use the eight problems that you're solving. And then the last chapters the call to action chapter that's it ten chapters. Twenty thousand words, two thousand words per chapter is like a very long blog post. Anyone can do this. I love that you say. Of that about recording too. Because for some people that's just a lot easier in terms of them formulating their thoughts. But I'll tell you I can talk a hundred fifty words a minute. I can type forty five fifty on a good day. So it's just a lot faster. And I would be remiss if I did note that one of sponsors are show is Rev dot com, which is awesome transcriptions IRS. All right. You call yourself a book coach, or at least that's one of your titles. What does a book coach actually do to help? Somebody get a book written. We do a number of great things, we're cheerleader accountability partner. And we're also editor. So the coaching service can help you write the outline right? Your marketing materials that you focused on what your book should be about. When you hit those inevitable dips as we all do for writer's block, and whatever that in the the coach access your cheerleader your accountability partner to get you back back in the groove. And they'll give you feedback on your writing and any other questions you have about the publishing industry. There's also some colder content development editor, which is something. I did for the age that guy 'cause he only I, and it's copied has said, you know, you really need developmental editor. And what she meant by that. Was you told the same story three times in three different factors? You told this story and really didn't make the point that you thought it would make the whole chapter on this topic. But your stories really don't mess, and you need more formation you make these assertions, but you need to testify so they act as your editor, and you and your friend to guide you in the right direction. Saying no, here's what your book really needs. So some development lenders just give a review of a first draft and say chapter by chapter. Here's what's good. Here's what needs work, and they're done with it other developments letters, actually work with you more hand in hand do that first over you. But then they work with you to make sure that bring it up to that level that is expected to make it a professional book. And of course, most people are aware of previous and copy editors, and that's the lower level work to honest because that's the nitty gritty looking for type, bows, and grammar and punctuation and all that stuff. That's still very less than you need to do. They don't care what you said. This is long as you said it, right? It's going to look at that. Like there's a period at the end of the they're happy. And that's what you just described is pretty typical of the traditional publising model. You know, you have that overarching person that wants to make sure the narrative runs through the book in the right way. And the, you know, the the reader gets kind of the the impact delivered, and then you've got that person looking for inconsistencies throughout and then you've got as you said the person that's looking for Typos, and and and commas and cynical. So it really, you know, a lot of people underestimate how much editing I suppose goes into a woman book it really does take village. To write a book because if you read a book by yourself, I it could be good, but to has better than what? So having someone look over your shoulder and say, hey, you're this story goes onto long or you don't have enough stories or you need the ticks tobacco your claims here or you have too many statistics, you're gonna bore people to death. You lose perspective. And that's where the developmental editor comes in and saves your butt. So really favorite headline. It seems of the internet marketing folks is to to say, you know, I'm going to reveal the one number one secret nobody in the industry wants you to know that's like a hook to like really bring people in. So what's the number one secret that book authors won't don't want you to? We'll book authors want you to know everything. And that may be the problem. No one wants to read the encyclopedia about your topic. Today's reader wants to pick up a book when they get on a plane in New York and finish it by the time. They waned in Los Angeles. If not before so books are getting smaller. Easier to read a lot of cartoons images things that make the world just easier to understand. So I think the problem that a lot of people have tried a book because they go after cover everything about this industry, and the answer really is no goes back to those eight problems that your prospects have. So they come to know like entrust you. So they want to hire you so in the title of your book, which is right? Your book at a flash I wanna just get a sense of listening. What's a flash mate? I mean, what if I've got the book, and I've got a reasonable. You know handle on you know, what the topic should be whatnot. What's in a flash? From from the time. I, you know, maybe contact you or from the time that I start writing to to the whole publishing out there. People can buy it. Now. Great question, it's different for different people because of number of question that I get on my forums is I don't have time to write a book. I have kids I have worked. I this. I. That love of law. I think it's your fifteen minutes a day to write a book, you can write a book in four months in fifteen minutes a day. You can write about two hundred and fifty words so four days, you have a thousand words, and you twenty thousand words for book. Do the math yourself if you can call it out fifteen minutes a day by waking up earlier by going to sleep later by taking fifteen minutes of your lunch hour by not watching television for fifteen minutes, any of those things you can write a book in three to four months. And if I were your coach saying thing, I it just it can be done that ask. Because again, folks only need to be about two hundred twenty thousand to twenty five thousand words, so it's a whole different world today that when good to great was being published, which is way more words, so you can get by with doing less and have more impact. Well, and I, and I think a lot of people underestimate their very few people sitting around in their robe, you know, writing books. I mean, most people write books, you know, when they're done with their day job. So. Most of the books that you see out there written in that in that fashion. They're they're not people sitting around writing books for four months in their in their writing cabin in the mountains. So where can people find out more about not only write your book and flash boot about the work that you're doing where would you send people? Thank you. I believe in consistent branding. So write your book in a flash is the name of my book. It seemed by website. It's like Facebook page, it's YouTube channel lots of questions from people, and we answer them through YouTube. So write your book and a flash dot com. We'll take you to all of those places. Awesome. Damn thanks for something by you're still in the Minneapolis area. Is that right? Yes. I am. Awesome. Well, it was great catching up with you. And really important topic. Everybody should write a book, and they should write it in a flash. I think that sounds awesome. So flee will bump into you won't be ten years or so before the next time we chat, that'd be great. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I p healthier your listeners.
The Secrets to Impactful Speaking
"Did the right domain name is critical to ensuring the success of your small business, but it's got a little harder? But now you can choose dot US domain to help your business. Stand out reserve your dot US web address today. Go to launch with dot US and use my promo code podcast for my special offer. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the duct tape marketing podcast. This is John Jansen. My guest today is Alison Shapira, she's CEO, and founder of global public speaking of communication training firm, and she's also the author of speak with impact, how to command the room and influence other. So Allison, thanks for joining me. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. So I'm gonna ask you a seemingly silly question, but I'd like to hear you frame this who needs to speak with impact. Everyone in one word my, my idea in the book is that every single day you have an opportunity to speak with impact, whether you're at a parent teacher conference, or whether you're sitting next to someone on an airplane, who might potentially fund your next venture we never know who were talking to and every day we have this opportunity to make an impact swim. Sure. So of your work, particularly when it comes around to say, working with you, and that's going to cost somebody fee, and they're trying to judge the ROI on, on this main. How do I get somebody realize, maybe what not speaking with him pact is costing them? Usually someone comes to me, because something has happened. That is not good. Let's say bomb presentation or they didn't win business that they were hoping to win. And they realize that it's their communication. That's the prob. Them, or perhaps that it because of their communication skills, the real value of what they do is not coming through. And so usually by the time they get to me, they've already realized there's a problem, and they're taking steps to fix that problem. It's usually the case, right? We have to admit there's a problem forever going to seek a solution to 'cause 'cause I suspect a heck of a lot of people out there that have risen to see. Oh, ranks or, or leadership ranks in big companies in the end, they are really holding themselves back or holding the impact back because they either assume they don't need this help, or they just don't bother to get it right. And my business model is based on finding the people who already realized they have a problem as opposed to going up to someone and trying to convince them, there's a problem that they don't see that's much harder sell. And luckily there plenty of people who recognize they need help, and that's the kind of inward-looking leader that I wanna work with. So what are the? Challenges. I'm sure for a lot of folks that are realize that and they they're coming for help. His public speaking makes people nervous. And, and frankly, I do a fair amount of public speaking, and I can't say I certainly suffer from getting nervous the same way used to. But I think one of the real tricks is probably getting over looking nervous, when you're trying to have impact, how do you help people through that whole fear component everybody? Feels nervous before they speak in public. And this could be having an important job interview with one or two. Other people or could be standing on stage. Addressing huge crowd, regardless, everyone get some degree of nervousness, or feel some degree of nervousness. And the goal is not to completely eradicate that, fear. That's nearly impossible and unproductive the goal is to help you overcome that fear and harness it to create a positive energy that you have when you give. The speech or go in for the interview or for that presentation or pitch. So the techniques that I use start with trying to find the source of that nervousness. But are the what are the variables that you can control are your nervous because you don't know who's going to be in the room to the room early and start to meet people? Are you nervous? You're gonna forget what you're gonna say, we'll prepare particular type of bullet points that you can bring with you and easily us if you lose your place. So the more you can control the variables the more comfortable you feel. And then when you add to that reading techniques, Alexei Shen techniques that I learned as an opera singer, then you can start to use those to calm the nerves to some extent, and then, again, harness that energy in a positive way of doing this show for almost fifteen years now and you're only the second former opera singer of had on the show. I'm not the first. Oh, maybe are actually. I don't I'd have to rack my brain. But I think you may indeed be the first former opera singer that I've had my show. So I you know, I know the, the quality of our connection even though it is pretty pretty good. It's still analog digital and whatnot. Or I'd have you sing some? Yeah. Like, the, the, the sound of not optimal for an operatic performance right now, nor have I warmed up for such performance. So maybe we can provide a link to video of me performing, we will, I promise listeners, go to our show notes, and you're gonna find a link to that among other things that we discussed. So in your work curious, how you fold in on this, obviously, in creating a speech or speaking with impact, there certainly is the content and there's delivery. So how much of it is that how much is the content how much is the delivery? There is no specific. Break town in terms of which is more important than the other. There are figures that are often cited those figures are usually wrong. And so it really depends on who the audiences that you're speaking to and are they going to resonate more with the content or the delivery of that content. As a general rule, we need both the lack of one cannot be made up for by an abundance of the other. So if you have really powerful content that you've crafted in a way that's clear concise, and compelling? And you do liver it in a way that's engaging and authentic, and confident, that's when you have an impact a positive impact on others, and you can't compromise on either one, you need both his Lameda different way in your experience. What people generally need more help with content or delivery, both. I it's really. Both are people who need help with the messaging, they ramble they can't get to the point. They are unable to clearly articulate what they do or the value of what they do. And then they're others who have a clear value proposition. But they mumble it to the floor instead of looking in the eyes of their audience, or their voice is so scratchy because they don't know how to project and they don't know how to protect their voice, that it's sounds like their words are falling into the back of their throat. And so we don't get the full power of those words. I people need both some people need more than more one than the other, but it's such a solid breakdown of both or it's entering to create this clear, and concise speech. Is there a roadmap? Is there a template for what needs to be an it or what boxes need to be checked? If I'm trying to figure out okay, how do I do this? Yes. And the book, I outline of particular road. Math that you can use in a short amount of time that starts with asking yourself a series of three questions, who's your audience? What's your goal and most fundamentally y you and by why you, I don't mean why are you qualified? Where did you go to school? What PHD you have by? Why you. I mean why do you care? What you sense of purpose in your work. What are you proud of in your work? And when you can respond to that question and answer into your speech or presentation or into the introduction of your pitch. Then all of a sudden you connect with people on a much more personal, much more authentic level, and no matter how professional the situation we're in. We're human beings, connecting with other human beings. And we have to bring our authentic self to that relationship with what you just went along way towards answering the fear question too, because I find that a lot of speakers just getting started the fears based in there looking at me. You know, I have to perform, and I think that where you really get over that as when you just what you mentioned, there's, you know, how my here to serve, what do they need to hear. That's going to help them in. So when you turn the focus on kind of serve. Being the, the audience, whoever the audience is or how big is I think that I think a lot of individuals that really kind of takes away the fear, because it's it changes the dynamic completely exactly it reduces the fear, because it reminds you that you're not just getting up to look good or show off or show, how many how much, you know, you're getting up in the service of others in the service of a mission that has others in mind and not trust yourself. And we may, we may not like to be the center of attention or were not, our idea is the center of attention or audiences the center of attention. And once we reframe the purpose of speaking, as not to show off, but to serve others. Then all of a sudden that sense of mission overrides, our fear and makes us stand tall, and animates, our body, and our language in a way that engages the audience. So what we find is the right content. And the right mindset drive, the right delivery, you love. Shirt tips, resources with small business owners, and one of them is, you've got to choose the right web address for your business, and it's gotten harder. All the good names are gone, but you can take short relevant dot US web address, and maybe come up with the best possible name for your business while it's still available and you'd be in pretty good company with some big hitters, like zoom dot US. Mastercard dot US. I want you to reserve your dot US web address today. So I've arranged a special offer for my listeners. Register your dot US domain for just a dollar forty nine for you. Plus, you get free website builder and hosting services for six months. So to get my special offer go to launch with dot US and use my promo code podcast. That's launch with dot US promo code podcast. So when it comes to the. The performance or delivery aspects of it. What are some of the really common things that you see? So many people do that they need to clean up. I see a lot of people who don't recognize the power of their voice. And this is something I'm particularly sensitive to as a singer and by voice. I mean, the physical voice, they don't take care of their ways there at a loud networking event the night before they lose their voice, and then they wake up early and chug coffee and the, the caffeine is drying out their throats. So I don't get enough people recognize the power of their voice and the fact that their voices, an instrument that needs care and nurturing. And a lot of what I write about in the book, and a lot of what I teach is about how to care for that voice, and then how do use breathing and breath, support to project, your voice, so that it reaches every single person in the audience, and it's not about creating a false performers voice, that's different than your. Day to day speaking voice. It's about finding your most powerful natural voice, and making sure it's the, the natural voice that goes on stage, not the nervous, second guessing voice, which is what we hear instead when I network with a lot of professional speakers in professional speakers that are getting paid ten fifteen twenty thousand dollars for it performance quite often will actually hire an employee, a vocal coach just for many of the reasons talking about exactly, but it's not only professional speakers who need this. When we think of the fact that every single day we have an opportunity to have an impact through our voice, whether on a conference, call a phone call a pitch a difficult conversation because of that because we use our voice every day, then we have to care for it every day, and more and more of us, regardless of what industry were in our flying on airplanes taking the train. Rain. We are always on the road, and that takes a toll on our physical body, which takes a toll on our ability than to speak and to have an impact. And so we all need to recognize it. Whether or not we get paid for speaking. We all need to take care of our voice commotion or know that this is sort of reliant on how high the stakes are. But, but for a presentation that you've got a lot riding on. Let's say how much is rehearsal. A part of the rehearsal is a significant part of it. And there are different ways of rehearsing, and I talk about six different ways of rehearsing in the book. It's not simply about reading the spe, the speech over and over and over again and memorizing it. That's not what I want people to do. There's the process of reading it out loud to make sure it sounds good to your ear, and you can pronounce it comfortably, and then there's reducing. To bullet points so that you don't have a script in front of you. You have bullet points that you can clearly refer to if you need to there's practicing in front of other people to make sure it has the intended effect, and you see other people's reaction, and then are unique methods that I recommend such as mental rehearsal, where you sit down close your eyes focused on your breathing and then visualize the presentation word for word in your mind and visualize it going. Well, and that's such a powerful way of practicing because it tricks your mind into feeling like you've already given the speech successfully, so you're building repetition, which builds your confidence. So there are different ways of rehearsal, and I recommend people choose at least three methods of rehearsing, according to the speech and the audience, you're in the DC, IRS guessing you work with maybe more politicians than some sweet coaches, my Ronin. You're wrong. Actually don't want. Okay. I thought you just might because of your fair assumption, but actually, I'm passionate about politics and more passionate about individual businesses. Having an ability to make impact in their own way. And so I love work with business and with the nonprofit sector and all different sectors. But I don't work as much in politics and less. I, I know people running for office, and they ask for my council in the point my starting trek was. I was going to just get your opinion is, is there, something that, you know, really good, polish politician who speaks a lot? Typically can have a lot of impact in a lot of influence. Is there anything that you see that, that the business owner could learn from sort of the kind of I that's on, you know, politicians so often? And that was that was the point of my question, but you may not have an opinion on that. I do actually based on why I do or don't work in politics. I what politicians do really well as they focus in on cour- messages. And they repeat those messages, and they stay on message. And that's something that a business, owner of any size business needs to keep in mind. What are the three main messages, that I wanna keep repeating because whatever I say, becomes the talking points of my company that my employees will use that will determine what our clients say. So this idea of, of having clear, concise messaging and staying on point is very important for business. Owners where I don't want them to sound like your stereotypical politician is in this, this sense of overly polished in authentic, delivery style, which is something that politicians are challenged by how do you come across as genuine authentic, and not overly perfect, and polished. And so for the business owner, I want them to know. It's okay to make a few mistakes while you're speaking to have a few OEMs, and is, it's okay to lose your place. As long as you bring your offense itself to the speech or presentation, which is what the the question why you helps you achieve. And that's something that we don't see as much of, but I wish we could in politicians. So you mentioned OEMs and us, there's an app for that. I understand, there are several there's one in particular or a couple actually that I really like there's one particular app called or rye that you can use to practice your fillers. And get feedback and they have great interactive exercises. That will help you reduce the use of and is and other fillers like kinda and sorta or minimize IRS like just or I think that's a great practice tool. There's another app called like so that also helps you connect with your identify your fillers and start to remove them. Those are two that I really like and use personally with my for myself, and that my clients will use as well. I really didn't think that I use them that much until I started getting recorded and then I was like holy mackerel. A huge does a lot more than I thought I did. And so, I think a lot of people probably so from that, what yourself videoed in all of a sudden, you will maybe horrified. But, but realize that there's, there's things that, that you do instinctively. That's right. And there's nothing wrong with one or two fillers share. They're, they're, they're genuine. They happened. Nothing on that. The challenge is when you have still have the that they undermine your credibility, and your thority. So if every other word is or so it looks like your making your message as you go. The content could be perfectly credible, but too many fillers will make you appear unprepared. And so that's why we want to be aware of them. We don't often hear them when we're doing when we're speaking them, which is why you hearing yourself on a recording is what it takes to prompt, her awareness of them, you mentioned breathing as well. And a lot of people probably don't consider that aspect of speaking, because I mean we all breathe, right? But I again going back to my experience. I remember when I first started that was a serious issue. I'd get about briefs the way through making a point, and go only guy that I have to get a breath it here to pass out. And I think a lot. People underestimate, how important that aspect is. How do you start recognizing that and working on, that breathing is critical? And as you said, it's something that we all know is important, and we do instinctively, which is a good thing that challenge is when we get nervous, the first thing that goes is our breathing. We stop breathing where we constrict our breathing, which means were were holding ourselves back from getting the nourishment that we need to relax ourselves and keep going. So the breathing techniques that I use are to help you use breathing, a very intentional way to relax to calm down to center yourself before speech or presentation, and that the phrase I use with people all the time is called paws and brief. Pause and breathe is what you do before you given a presentation. When you have forty other things on your mind, and all these unanswered emails, and employee's asking you questions that you don't have the. To house and breathe, and then that's what you do in the moment when somebody asks you a question, you didn't anticipate where you lose your place. Pause and breathe and then keep going. And that's also what you do before you let all the fillers come out pause and breathe, and then you'll reduce the USA fillers. Sounds like good life advice. Anyway. Exactly, it is. So, so you have a great number of resources related to the book on your website, and it is Alison Shapiro dot com, and we'll have links to the resources. But do you wanna tell people where they can find out more about your coaching working obviously about speak with impact? Absolutely. The the website. I'm sharing with people is speak with impact book dot com. And that takes you to a very specific page on site where people can sign up for a free. Download of a chapter of the book watch video about the book. And also learn more about all of the ancillary services. Awesome. Thanks for joining us. And hopefully, I'll see you someday out there on the roads. Thank you so much for the pleasure. Talking to you, John.
55 minutes and 24 seconds of backyard audio
"Uh-huh this hour of muted tranquility is brought to you by home field apparel the world's most comfortable maker of comfortable clothing field apparel boasting shirts of all shapes for people of all sizes adorned with dozens of the coolest college sports logos of all time homefield apparel soon to be joined by the most studious stately and stoic of brands. The michigan wolverines. Why not sit down to rest in a snow embankment with a nine hundred page book about the battle of the bulge warmed to the core of your being by a home field apparel michigan. Wolverines sweatshirt with offer code full cast. You can receive twenty percent off your first of many orders at home field apparel. That's home field apparel the only clothing choice for michigan men of all genders. I look at my. And i say we are physically superior to this football team. And they can't stand and go toe to toe against so i'm challenging each. And every one of you to go out there lockup with the guy across the new and beat him into submission. Because i think we are physically to this team of minnesota's got on the field right now. We'll go and find out. If that i was i was at i liked. I'm ready to go. did i fire you you did. I don't even wanna throw it to commercial break kind of fired myself up and up way. Too old for unite both are pick. We're gonna take five minutes have have have a nice team and we'll come back at the end of the half coach but could only for one snap tavern explained to me when you're down that many points you don't return a kickoff. I hope that's a rhetorical question. Because i don't have a clue pay et clearly retorted. I don't understand that. That's to make a plane when corseted i i i don't i don't understand being cautious. When you're down you're struggled when you're more than double good time. Look at this. I think the score. Because i remember dan that plane that goes up in the air but if that ball touches on a gym in his hand touches out of bounds before the ball breaks plane. It's not a touch. I agree. I think the ball was right over the top of the pylon. When then it's going to be like you said it really really close out where we are is where we always are when it comes to replay. You gotta start with the call on the field and nicole call on the field his a touchdown we gotta see. No question is in is out about. The question is where is football when that hand touches out about i don't think they could overturn. They can't overturn. I think i think if he ruled them at the one inch line. Guess couldn't overturn that. They'll say my. I heard grow. Yes i believe. They can't overtake can. Yes no yes. They wouldn't do that to michigan. They should because. I think i agree with you. I think was a touchstone. I don't you gotta have definitive proof. Dover turn to call on the field indisputable video evidence. That's what it's supposed to be. And i don't think they've got it in this overturned his they'd have to put the nose of the football to witches from the goal line. I don't you haven't seen enough to overturn it. don't you dare. Will he dared. That's the question. I don't have an answer to your question. Then i gave up and early. You were going well covered. I'm trying to call a game here. Who cares if. I'm you're asking me this rhetorical question but he cares about the game. Do it's i two minutes inside one. Thirty seven thousand nine hundred more mission. Jimmy is not wearing khakis. No he's not. He's wearing blue. I don't know if he's got a rain suit on or or an extra layer you think. This is a trend. Well let's talk about above my pay grade. I'd that's good. I'm sure twitter verse will be mortgage backed. It tries to get it to his running back. Pots it's incomplete. It'll be second fifty with a minute to play this game fast enough. My wife informs me that. He's wearing lululemon pants. Now that i gotta tell you. That's something i wouldn't have no. Well i can guarantee you. I am not wearing lululemon pants and neither are you. I know i. I got the big tall catalog out. Are you sure that yes second fifteen. Who's wearing you know. Who's where john jansen and doug cards wearing khakis no. He's wearing corduroys tacky. Corduroy johnson is wearing the official. Jim harbaugh khaki pants. I'm surprised autograph mogo. Don't show me. I don't And owner turn. This is of the installed during the store. Maybe deputy all the stress all those women come back teeth. No no last off. It'll be food elevator. I talked to tell ya.