7 Episode results for "John Grunsfeld"
Flight on MarsAn Interview with Smithsonians Ellen Stofan
"You're listening to the checks podcast. Brought to you. By editors across the aviation week network. This is now have access to special subscription office including a preferential rate aviation week and space technology. Podcast aviation week dot com to learn more. Hi and welcome to the aviation week. Check six podcast. I'm jen damasio the executive editor for defense and space. And i'm here with aviation weeks. Space editor irene. Clots and a very special guest ellen. Sto fan the under secretary for science and research at the smithsonian institution. Ellen comes here after leading the air and space museum and previously from nasa where. She helped plan to get humans to mars. But we're here today. Because of a really thrilling development. This morning nasa flew ingenuity. An aircraft for the first time on another planet in mars is very thin atmosphere. So i'm going to turn this over to irene. Who ensure has a lot of questions for ellen about this historic achievement. Thanks jen and welcome allan. This was all a very long time coming and I know that it's a significant step. For future. exploration of mars been likened to the ninety seven landing of the pathfinder mission with the prototype rover sojourner and we see what that led to colluding ingenuity is ride to mars ellen. Can you talk a little bit about as planetary scientists. what aerial abilities bring to the exploration table. Yeah well i. I will say on this day where. I'm still frankly just overcome by the immense this morning. It's i put this in an even broader context as having had responsibility for a while of caring for the nineteen. Three right flyer is. This is the first powered flight on another planet. Just let that blow your mind for a minute because this is huge historically and so it's really exciting so if we go to that fundamental level. Oh my gosh what we did on mars. It's incredibly exciting. But this idea of having multiple modes of mobility rovers or great especially when you want to go from rock to rock and analyze the composition. And we're looking for past life on mars. We really need that rover capability but you also want the ability to go longer distances more rapidly and you can only do that by air but mars is such a challenge because of that thin atmosphere but you know the ingenuity team. They show perseverance and ingenuity and they did it. This first flight lasted for thirty nine seconds. And i know that there's a series of flights to come on. What else do you think needs to be demonstrated before it would give nasa the confidence to go through with a proposal science laden mission or is just this first flight enough you know. I think what we really want to see us that ability of of this little helicopter to do reconnaissance because especially when you're thinking of humans on the surface of mars when you're thinking of wanting to note should i go over that ridge or should i go over the next ridge is we have data from orbit but really getting the details by being able to do reconnaissance so i'm looking forward to the flights of ingenuity that really demonstrates its ability to go out word. Do a little path finding just a demonstration unit. Perseverance isn't isn't relying on it. But i think that ability to be a recon aircraft is something that we are way. That's in the plans for ingenuity to demonstrate. And that will help us say had do. We use aerial mobility in the future on mars to help not robotic exploration but to help human exploration putting putting on your geolog- year planetary geologist hat for a moment. If you had the ability to fly somewhere on mars in take a look where would you wanna go. Well the regions we most want go or regions where we really don't want people right now and that's where we think there could be water close to the surface and there's a lot of places like that some of these Cracks that we've seen Along the side slopes of craters on mars that seemed to change seasonally where there's been some scientists who suggested that's because there's water close to the surface now. Why do we care about that. You know we think that. About three and a half to four billion years ago. The conditions on early mars were similar to the conditions on early earth. When life of all. So if life evolved on mars when morris became cold and radiated at the surface if mars life could have retreated underground following water as the water went underground so areas where water comes close to the surface is frankly where we don't wanna send humans in the future We really wanna go in recon those areas with this kind of technology with aerial Ability to say is there water close to the surface. Can we find that out. Before we even send a rover her human in that could contaminate it or maybe pick up a single celled organism. That we really don't want to pick up. Is there any particular aside. You're you're referring to the The recurring slope linear they are sal. Is there any other regions of mars. That would be interesting to take a look at from the air you know. There's so many that i can't even come. The interesting thing is There was actually a report that came out. I'm trying to think. I think it was two or three years ago. Where the scientific community actually came forward and said these zones where we think that. maybe humans shouldn't go Because there could be water close to the surface in the name of the report is a national academy. I study Those are all the areas and there are a lot of on mars which is really exciting. Because again while i'm someone who really thinks about how we have to go find fossil evidence of life on mars. The idea that there could still be extant or living. Life is something that's really exciting. Nasa has plans for the Dragonfly claude copter on them titan in the works. Even before this flight demo was was done. Why was this plight. Necessary to kind of get the technological maturation for morris craft when. There's this other one kind of going forward on. Titan the thing about morris's we dappling sunday us on humans tomorrow and that to me is is not an option so making sure. We have the robotic tools that humans can use in the future. This makes this technology demonstration more important and remember what that thin atmosphere on mars. This is a really hard place to fly said. This tech demo was really important. I'm actually a co investigator. On the dragonfly mission and titan is a whole nother story. because titan's atmosphere is actually slightly denser than the earth. Which makes it easier to fly but the fun thing for this. Is you know we have physics. And we obviously have experimented for decades and decades since nineteen ninety-three with human powered flight. But giving taking that physics to a different atmosphere. One that's really thin. One that slightly denser it really pushes our understanding of flight. And that's really exciting. On any level. With your this myth sonian. I believe that the mission of the smithsonian is to collect and disseminate knowledge on a very broad scale. What do you think about the pace of innovation now compared to when you were first starting off in your career and where does this. Amazing example of powered flight on mars today fit in in that whole continuum. Interesting say Being director the earned space museum helped me really put this in perspective. Because i think is a planetary scientist. You're so frustrated all the time. Because you're like. I want to get back to tighten in explore the seas on titan and really understand that limits of life in the solar system. I want to get back to venus and understand what venus can teach us about a planet that took such a different evolutionary path. And you wanna be everywhere all at once and in the pace seems really slow but going to the air and space museum and looking at what we accomplished from the nineteen three white flyer Took landing humans on the moon to now powered flight on mars. That's happened in an incredibly incredibly short amount of time. And that really hit me when she was telling me that his job at the apollo eleven launch was to escort charles lindbergh. And you're like wait a minute. What so the fact that all of this innovation has occurred in such a short time period really in the scope of of humanity. I think makes me take a breath. I'm i'm impatient to see boots on march. I wanna see that. First woman exploring in finding evidence of past life on mars but we are really moving forward in a huge credit. And i wanna make sure i get a shout out to me on her whole team at jpl. Because boy again you go back to those words. Perseverance in ingenuity that helicopter team at j. p. l. they pushed in pushed and at times. I was like. I don't know maybe this is too risky. John grunsfeld was a huge proponent of made this helicopter happen you know it really did take a team of people really innovating to make this happen and i love to see that goes back to the tradition of the wright flyer To see that kind of spirit. Well this helicopter isn't gonna get to hang in the smithsonian Is there anything that you couldn't think of. That would bring this chapter of the story of flight to people on earth in a tangible salient way. Like the museum does so many artifacts will you know. There's always the engineering model. That of course the air and space museum would love to have. But you know. I'm not gonna subtle for that because i want the original ingenuity helicopters sitting next to the wright flyer has pleased that the wright flyer fabric on it. There's no reason that a future human mission to the surface of mars can bring that back for the smithsonian in fact. I'm insisting on it. I've already told thomas zurbuchen listen. He hasn't said no. That's great ellen. I think you just made news jammed. Is there anything you wanted to ask. Well yeah a little bit. I mean. I just wanted to put this in the context of your work in planning for putting humans on mars. How does this help us get a little bit closer to reaching that goal. When i think of human exploration of mars i really think of humans and robots together for a long time people would have this. Why do we need to send humans robots but actually the power to me is humans working with robots on the surface every mission. We've been having tomorrow's over the last decade or so has been pushing technology on to get ready to send humans to mars and you see that on perseverance with moxy which is actually on taking carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in splitting the oxygen off. It's the first example of what we call in situ resource utilization. How do we learned to live off the land so to speak on mars on. It's got ingenuity again. A tool that future astronauts could use for reconnaissance so every mission that we have to mars. Now is testing technologies to get ready for humans to mars. And i'm optimistic. It's gonna happen. What's your best estimate of the day in. I've been covering space for thirty. Two years and mars was always just around the corner. You know i joke about. I think mars has been twenty years away since since i've been involved so yeah i agree with you. You know my frustration is it has been twenty years away. And frankly when you look at call of president kennedy's onto land humans on the surface of the moon. We were waiting for the behind technologically in being able to do that. Then we are in getting humans tomorrow face it. We didn't have space technologies. We did or how to land on the. We knew nothing. We actually know mars pretty well. We've been on the surface since nineteen seventy six We know how to do deep space navigation. Yes there are technological challenges no doubt but if we put our minds to it we could get to mars within ten to fifteen years. Could we afford it a different discussion. But i argue. We could be on the surface of mars easily within the next twenty years. It just gonna take the will to make it happen. What's your best argument for the case for humans to mars. Why go we explore for lots of reasons right. We explore for geopolitical reasons for going to the surface of the moon. Right now you hear a lot of talk about exploring for economic reasons you know. Is there benefit to private companies to explore. But i'm a scientist and so to me Exploration is is about knowledge about pushing the boundaries and when we think about the fact that there could be evidence of past life on mars that could represent a different origin of life. And we wanna ask questions like does it have aren a in dna. What can teach us about the fundamental nature of life. That doesn't take one sample. It takes hundreds of samples to understand not just did life evolve on. Moore's what complexity did it get to. What form that take. So that as geologist. I can tell you that means breaking open hundreds of rocks looking at hundreds of specimens and i argue. That's a discovery of profound importance in. It's going to take humans on the surface of mars to do it. Do you think that because there is now. Other countries china in particular that has a very seems very stable and very incremental steady build up of its technological abilities Do you think that that inev- it self is a reason to kinda go. The us efforts onward or do the international aspects of space exploration kind of take a second seat to the goals of science. You know there's no way we're going to get humans on the surface of morris without all hands on deck so that means international cooperation it needs public private partnerships. And so i don't look at it so much competition as i do opportunities for cooperation And certainly things like worrying about where other countries going in. And i do think it's important on a personal level that the us lead in space exploration. We always have and in my mind. We always should. It brings huge technological benefits back to this planet it brings jobs at brings economic benefit it pushes technology forward so we should continue to lead in space exploration but to get humans to mars stats can take international cooperation. And i i really think you should look at. The international space station is being a great model for how we should get humans to mars. thanks if we have a little more time. Nasa on Friday just announced this selection of spacex as its partner to develop a crew lunar lander. What kind of science on the moon are you interested in. Is this sort of new way of partnering with private sector. A model for mars exploration as well. I think. I think it's a really exciting thing. Yes i said it's gonna take. It's hard to go to mars as much as i said. Oh we could be ten to fifteen years away. It's going to take everybody. And we've seen how companies like spacex like blue origin. Really been pushing pushing pushing. That's great because that helps move us. Forward and i think that kind of partnership is certainly going to be Those kinda partnerships are going to be part of getting humans to mars for me. The most exciting work we're going to be doing at the moon is getting ready to go to mars. So it's how do we keep. Humans healthy in deep space radiation environment. Where you're subjected not just to solar radiation but to cosmic rays. that are much more harmful. How are we gonna do Remote from earth where houston is. We have a problem is no longer really an option. So are we going to use artificial intelligence to help support astronauts as we move out. Do we really understand how to keep our life support systems working for long periods of time. We're going to go out and test that at the moon. It's gonna move signs forward. It's going to move technology forward in. It's gonna get us ready to go to. Mars will thank you so much for joining us and for your enthusiasm Really infectious and this is such a momentous milestone that we were glad to share it with you And thank you to our listeners. For tuning in to this edition of the czech six podcast which is available for download on itunes. Google play and stitcher join us again next week. For another edition thank you.
Prof. Jack Burns, Professor of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences at the University of Colorado in Boulder
"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide edited content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do a companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense dot com and displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests at other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and i can be reached at gil at eappen dot info mike. Yesterday's a jack boone's who's a professor in the department of ece fisa goal in planetary sciences unto colorado boulder. He is also vice president images for academic affairs in blue sage for disuse system system. Jack while thank you. Joe is good to be with you. Thanks for doing this so you at your team. On deeply involved in the upcoming nasa missions to the moon including The designed to place radiofrequency absolutely on the far side of the moon and be kevin deemed really back there for almost fifty years. Now i know that china s landed. I was actually looking at some photographs that just gained today from From their lander. I israel in india. Almost got there but Fleas land properly. And so so. What's our interest. What's sudden interest in going back to the moon after fifty years. Yeah i don't know that. I would characterize as a sudden interest i think on the part of the science community and really the exploration community interest has been there for a while but what has changed in the last decade is the cost doing missions And the accessibility of the moon in this new era in which we have now. Private companies like spacex and like the blue origin company. Jeff bezos company They've put considerable private resources in developing new rockets of with reusability to lower the launch costs and also technology which was extreme in the nineteen sixties to try to get to the moon. All hannity vetted from scratch now is relatively straightforward at gill as you mentioned Even a small countries like israel Private companies have contracts with nasa to fly payloads. Now it's it's it's realizable to Envision going to the moon at a relatively modest cost certainly in comparison to the sixties and seventies. Yes so that's a. It's a very interesting phenomenon. Now it's it's almost like a business model question. Space is Blue blue horizon blue origin. Laura gin and that is another company. Lakers peterson things. Well lockheed you ally the united launch alliance which is the lockheed and boeing Company as well they all have these new generation of launch vehicles that are capable of going to so nasa in some sense outsourcing Some of the transportation right to so captain made a selection or are they going to do essentially multiple companies. Do it the the plan is to have monk multiple companies just like the commercial crew program To the space station there's boeing and spacex And for the case of the moon for the un crude landers that Landers that are just carrying payloads nasa has identified a out a dozen companies To be able to transport a payloads to the moon and at the same time. They're also undergoing competition right now. They selected three companies to design as part of a public private partnership the next generation of human landers. So that's the same. Mostly the same group that has spacex blue origin and the third one is is dynamic which is a company in huntsville alabama rate. So it's nassar's goal here is They are they going to take contracts from other other countries do send pedal to the moon in these companies. The the way this is working now is nasa is buying services so they're no longer buying rockets or landers which they will then own operate Instead the philosophy is To buy a ride for example a seat On a human land or or by space for a payload so these companies that are responsible for indemnifying Making sure they have a proper insurance for losses They take A bit of the risk and and then proceed along those lots now. What that means is that the companies then they own the intellectual property they owned landers they rockets they own the The other transportation devices. So that means they can sell seats. They can sell payloads to for example a european space agency Or the russian space agency or individual companies. That might want to puts a payload on the moon Investigation in this kind of a lower gravity environment so it's much more entrepreneurial than what we had before and it lowers the cost to the taxpayer for doing all these things by the artist program. Which is the new human programs. The moon the Recently released cost to get the first woman in the next man to the moon by twenty twenty four is a factor of ten less than the apollo program. Yeah it's interesting. I remember jack I was involved a little bit on the economic side of the next generation. Space legal program two thousand two thousand one two thousand two timeframe and this was a program was supposed to replace the shuttle and we did not go forward with it and i guess so. What was the arranged with the russian system to get their astronauts into space station. Yeah the the problem was that you might recall The shuttle accident that occurred in two thousand three And then president. George w bush declared that the shuttle really wasn't safe And that needed to be replaced and it took a while. We're still in the process of of fully replacing it. The last shuttle launch was twenty eleven If i remember correctly so in the meantime in order to get to the space station What we did is contract with the russians to use their soyuz spacecraft to go back and forth the space station so we. What we did is the buy seats. Those seats cost about seventy five or eighty million dollars so they weren't cheap but eventually got us back and forth. He said before we get the details of the Admission stack help philisophical question so way we have technology advancing the about conflict. Television's really taking off machines. Getting lot smarter What does sort of the basis for sending humans Could be not accomplished thing that human could do with machines if that's a good question i'm glad you answered that you ask that question because Excuse me i think what we're looking for now is is Really different mode for doing work on services like the moon or mars. Excuse me in that. We unlike apollo you had a single astronaut. Geologists such as astronaut harrison schmitt on all seventeen doing classic field geology. With a shovel to now advance unit twenty-first-century. We're gonna to do. Is i like to say we're going to bring Silicon valley with us to the moon. So we're going to bring advanced robotics. Be telly operated. That will use a machine. Learning artificial intelligence And will team with the astronauts so that they will these. These rovers advance scouting. They will identify interesting places and then the role of the astronaut is to make critical decisions on what to investigate What the samples. Look like i. i still think it's true. I've been told from my colleagues who are geologists stromer But who are uninsured. Scientists in that the difference for example between. Let's say the The curiosity rover on mars. And what it's been doing and having a human on mars that the work that the curiosity rover has done last seven years could be done in two days by geologists. a that's the difference and to also bring back. You know better selected samples and so forth. So there's no replacing humans and that's not going to happen anytime soon but you you do your point being. You only wanna use humans when you actually have to. Because their time is valuable and they're expensive and also Walking around even on the surface of the moon is dangerous. Because the you know the a space where the asian micrometeorites another possible dangerous but going into this new environment. I think what we're going to be able to do is reduced risk and improved efficiency. The i don't remember the numbers but a human Mission is about ten x the cost of a non human mission. Obviously the the efficiency and like you say what begin out of it different but guess on the cost side. It's about the fact of a magnitude different you know. That's hard to say because robots still are very limited in what they can do. They're just so many things that only humans can do is a little bit of apples and oranges but yet you're probably right that on the ballpark about a factor of ten. Maybe even more. But there's also much more than a factor of ten improvement in efficiency. So you know. Those costs will balance out and obviously the advantage of a human is You know they've been. The unexpected happens in michigan learning in As long as you have heard of data to teach a machine but then the unexpected happens machines. noel exactly. The rover gets stuck. It suffers a mechanical problem. That If you have a human there at least in the vicinity can help fix it. And move orders you know i think about for example servicing of the hubble space telescope and that was done five times by human astronauts and The astronauts such as john grunsfeld did to the servicing missions was very clear that the telescope could not have been repaired in upgraded by anything other than humans because the tab the complexity of the task the ability to be able to get in and To make repairs Make on the spot. Decisions just You know there was no replacing that so hopefully humans have a few more years of Do i think we've got many years to tell you the truth. I think it's going to be you know in reading some of the literature. I think it's going to be a quite a long time if ever that. We have truly Intelligent self aware machines can operate with the same decision making kick be very good at repetitive calculations outstanding job of there but You know making creative innovative entrepreneurial. Decisions were We're nowhere close to that yet So i do that. A multiple missions being planned An international collaboration so he's the first one that is supposed to take off as leave. Yeah artists is the new name for the human missions to the moon Artemis in greek mythology was the sister of apollo The twin sister of apollo. She's the goddess of the moon. So that's very appropriate. Since nasa has already declared bet up for that first landing which nasa has been planning for twenty twenty four would Would have that first woman in the next man on the surface the first expedition by humans to the moon in the twenty first century. So optimistic applaud. Its name the program programming program. Yeah exactly right so so andrade damasio multiple things going on And so do we have sort of a space station like that is going to orbit the out. Yeah in fact. That's honored design. And we'll be under construction in the next few years has called the gateway lunar gateway. And it's it's not like the space station in the sense of being gigantic And being really limited to that single orbit the gateway is really more of a spacecraft is going to have a pulse in system using a new generation of solar electric bad is ion propulsion That will be piloted for potential for optometry use in going to mars. I have just a couple of modules that will be there it will be a place where astronauts coming from the earth on on the orion spacecraft which is a it plus the space launch system is a heavy lift vehicle that will take astronauts the moon they will dock at the gateway and then they will get into a reusable lander go to the surface. Come back in that lander and then the next crew that comes in will do the same thing so you don't throw everything away like we did during hollow in the nineteen sixties again. The reusability idea is Is key to keeping the costs down so so it is more dealer so can't be attached as as alright right. Ds change in the future. Cab edge more against it. We can in fact The japanese space agency jaksa recently committed to fly a module And nasa has invited others such as the russian space agency to think about them attaching A module as well so it definitely is modular. That way you can add habitats you can add laboratories And can can grow over time. But it's also the the idea is that it's going to be long duration spaceflight and it's away way from the earth's magnetic field so you've got the full range environment of what you would have going to mars. So i think nasa all also looks at. This is a prototype of the vehicle that would be sent to mars. Lucchese david some Conversations yet again. Remember that To go to mars you would rather start off. Start off from the moon. Is that still thinking or that. Exchange i don't think that's been decided but there's this potential real advantages of a loon. First of all launching from the moon versus the earth requires much less thrust. What what we call delta the. That's the change in velocity to Get off there. Because there's only one sixth gravity on the moon and secondly if we're successful in mining water from the minute we know now there's considerable amount of water at the polls of the moon That's hydrogen and oxygen. We can convert that potentially into rocket fuel. You wouldn't have to bring that from earth so the costs associated with launching some could be substantially reduced in doing this from the moon versus from your so people are actively working that right now and seeing if that might be the way to go i of think that might end up being How missions to To mars or undertaking so under optimus Are there plans to actually create a habitat a big enough habitat for people to stave or extended period of time. So nasa has designs. And once again i should mention this is. This is all international Insa is involved. The european space agency is involved in providing a module for the service module for the orion. It also will be working on the gateway. The canadian space agency is providing the robotic arm And the same will be true on the surface The idea is that the first few missions will of just get started That first nation in twenty twenty four is planned to go to the south pole of moon. Will we've never been to before and look at the water. Ice situation there but Over time by the end of the decade the expectation is that will have multiple habitats. And we'll have people staying there for long periods of time like the arctic station. It's run by the national science foundation. The mcmurdo station as called in which you have a number of scientists come in and visit for anywhere from a few weeks to staying for year here so salama but when the next generation space program was in progress space. Too big big project. I would imagine spacex Others cab this business plan so what's the clamps time Do that The gay yes. So it'll be somewhere between three and five days to get from the earth and you're right about. The tourism spacex already has a fide a japanese businessman. If i remember correctly who has bought a A ride not the surface of the moon but to orbit the moon on a spacex vehicle. Sometime in a in a few years but the it'll be in a three to five days to get to the gateway and then Another day to get down to the surface. So i fully expect by the end of the decade especially given the accessibility to the moon by the private sector and by isa companies That they will be selling seats to wealthy individuals to spend a A summer holiday on the moon is so if the if the gateway is expandable perhaps Taxpayers can make some money nasa. Well it might be. Yeah but but once again this is. The transportation for the most part is probably not going to be through nasa but by these individual companies who own their own rockets their spacecraft and now they will sell seats to to wealthy tourists. yeah and so You you mentioned the european space agency. You mentioned the canadian space agency of so. Is this like the space station. A larger collaboration or those are the three major ones. Yeah it is and you're right. There are Oh gosh there's probably a dozen or so. Companies countries rather involved in the international space station and nasa envisions this much the same thing And i to. I order all the countries that are involved in. The international space station have been invited to become involved with the gateway And so as i mentioned several have accepted with With enthusiasms others are still keeping that around and take a quick break jack. Benny come back to talk about the radio. Frequency of savitri on the far side of the more that you're designing you bet sounds good. This is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations bit leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. You like to sponsor this podcast. Please reach out to in full at scientific sense dot com back Jack you're talking about upcoming missions to the moon Some of the manned mission some of some of the technology that you're sending up there there is a gateway bridges like the space station but attested propulsion its zone. Sorta are based entity source. And it's more dealer things could be attached to it. That may be subject is imploding. Creating that a launchpad so to speak to go to mars perhaps habitats that a large announced a mining for water mighty for hydrogen and other things and so he the program is called autonomous. So could be portal light program and underneath optimists. There are various things being planned right. So what are the The primary objectives all of those radius approved betas projects. I should say under under optimus. Yeah we'll go. let me let me start off by just looking at the difference with The apollo program because the apollo program ended fairly abruptly once the political goals were reached and it was never Really a sustainable program so Nasa and i think all of the governmental space agencies are looking for is for arsonist to be the beginning of a sustained presence on the moon and in space and using the moon as a stepping stone for human and robotic exploration of the solar system including getting the mars so the philosophy of artists is really quite different. So you're there the stay So you need to figure out how to live off the land. So that does mean as you're saying mining's water being able to grow crops being able to manufacture Equipments the habitats themselves from the From the of the regular or the soil material so using the the kind of advanced manufacturing capability three d. printing Electrolysis so that's a really different approach. And it means that what will be worked on is not just get there but a flag in the ground rather in full of soil and return on instead it means You know how do you figure out how to be there for the long haul so that means than learning how to to excavate how to build How to really maintain a life in a in a certain sense of independence. Part of the reason you want to do all that is because that's exactly what's going to be necessary for marce because mars is so far away That right away in the first human mission. They're gonna have to do all of those things so let's figure it out on the moon. I where we're still only three to five days away. Delino know. I guess we should know by now. Is the one reasonably mineral-rich just like the old. Yeah it is. It's in. It's in a different location But the the The soil the regular. If you will they don't have the same kind of iron And nicole Deposits all of the These these materials of magnesium lumina m- are in the soil and so you have to do some processing to extract that but the techniques are well in hand to be able to do that So everything from paving roads to building habitats are Are possible and must be made doable. Because that's what we're going to have to do on on mars as well. Yes so that is that is clearly philosophically really really different things. So we will excavate Vivo refined materials. We will create components as manufacturer. Actually create a craft. That could then take off tomorrow so well maybe components a bat and once again the the idea of of doing that in the nineteen sixties was real science fiction That just was not possible. As part of the reason you know a luna program wasn't maintained today this is fact. this is As i said earlier all of the technologies developed by a silicon valley and beyond our We're going to take all of that to the moon with us in utilize it. Yes that goes into the cost. Like you mentioned jackson who i think understood. That currently artist program in today's dollars is about one tenth of the Yes so the apollo program was about two hundred and fifty billion dollars. and nasa administrator bridenstine has requested twenty five billion dollars of through twenty twenty four. So that's not all in one year but distributed out to do that first mission to the moon and it may the the the majority of tosses we've already invested in the new rockets in the orion spacecraft so it is in For example building the the new human rated landers and and the gateway in the infrastructure and hogan countries. I know that china india israel russia All are interested halted their plans. Fake dollars I think overall You know they. They fit very well again. The the collaborations. We've had internationally with the international space station bode well for a business future. Because we've already figured out how to do this out of share resources. Make sure that interfaces are common and that electronics work in the different environments. So that's That's well underway the one country for political reasons that we don't work with the. Us is china at this point. But you know who knows that might change in the next decade as well and I i i understand that most of the water is on the far side. The side that we cannot see what most of a sex ed pulse and so some of it is accessible like This viper mission. That nasr's going to send to the south pole in advance of the artemis human landing It is a close enough to the nearside that they'll be direct radio communication from the south pole to the earth and so so is optimised focus is going to be on the far side No not necessarily because there's Interesting places to go to on the near side and the polls Certainly the far side is that's unexplored territory and the far side has a very interesting geological feature has something called the south pole pagan basin which is the largest deepest oldest impact crater that we know of in the The inner solar system and scientists are really eager to get in there and to sample a vat location. Because it's going to tell us about the early history of formation of the moon but also the formation of the earth any other benefits Such as lower Anything like that on the floor. Not low radiation but the other benefit is that. It's it's quiet. it's radio quiet. On the far side of the moon so from the earth we are limited in being able to do observations below. Roughly one hundred megahertz or eighty megahertz so in other words below the fm and that's due to the earth. Honest fear which absorbs some of the radio radiation and refracted But it's also do radio frequency interference and so there's a whole portion of the universe at radio frequencies that we've been unable to probe from the earth but going to the far side where it's radio quiet. There is no i honest. Fear around the moon for the first time we're gonna open up on entirely new Epoch to investigate the very early universe has of That's pretty interesting. So you have a project A radio frequency. Originally that is being planned there. So from smarty perspective jackson eh. Fog i understand that You know the the mvp sort of clear and eighty thousand years from From a big bang so this is posed that honey dinosaur expo. Yeah that's that's that's that's curricula stab. That's the beginning of what's called the dark ages of the early universe so the universe at that point is transparent but there are no stars. No galaxies yet. They're still collapsing formation. A stage so the dark ages is filled with neutral. Hydrogen and that hydrogen radiates at low frequency. So below one hundred megahertz and it will allow us to probe the physics of that early universe. So be able to test more thoroughly models of cosmology inflation and also the early stages of star formation to be able to look at time periods that we can't get to with the hubble space telescope or even the upcoming james webb space telescope. So so this is the era. As a photon says. kate At eighty thousand years and before before stars formed beacon actually see using Something like hubble telescope or something along those lines it's the time there is just dark and it just hydrogen. Yes that's right. So there's a big gap in our understanding of the universe from this Roughly four hundred thousand years after the big bang that you mentioned the cosmic microwave background the start of the dark ages until The hubble space telescope begins the probe. And that's about. Oh i would say a half to three quarters of a billion years. So there's a huge gap all of this interesting physics and astrophysics of happening objects. Collapsing forming the first stars. Those stars coming together to produce the first galaxies and the only way we can the only way we know to be able to sample it is using that neutral. Hydrogen emission and looking at what the impact on the hydrogen is from formation of those those stars and galaxies. So it's a unique way of of probing the early universe in the moon. The far side of the moon is the only place we can do. This and so that measurements would be just just spectrum. Well they would initially using just a single single die. Poll telescopes We can look at the global signal looking at the spectrum but then with time what we want to do. Is the bill on a ray a radio telescopes on the far side that will give us some spatial resolution. So we'll be able to map out The the density fluctuations of the neutral hydrogen in the early universe and Tell us much more about those first stars and galaxies and also the the early cosmology. So what we want to do is we. We start off with just single antennas on the on the surface of the far side in work towards building these race. Eventually having maybe a hundred thousand. I pull antennas on the far side and so so so jack Do we have some expectations of other things like from stat at modern so could be either confirm more potential object some of the weekend. Yeah in particular. What we wanna do is really wanna test the standard model of cosmology and in particular. Is there any missing physics. And there's some indication from recent observations that dark matter may be playing an unexpected role in cooling The neutral hydrogen and that means that the characteristics of the dark matter this is kind of non gravitational interaction the characteristics of that dark matter quite different than what we thought. So these experiments actually could be a way of probing the dark in the universe. Which as you know makes up some ninety plus percent of the mass in the universe and right now we don't really know what to absolutely that is a that's a. That's an embarrassment to both of physics in the astrophysics community is the dominant form of mass in the universe and we've not been able to detect it from the ground only indirect detections from astrophysics observations. And so. is it possible for us to see some sort of timelines. Oh how that changed and that might give us some ideas. Dogmatic might have played a role in in formation. It could it could and how it might have also a affected the evolution of the universe in many ways that we don't anticipate Some of these models of give dark matter a small electronic charge fraction of an electron that allows Than interactions with matter. That again would be quite surprising. So what what we what. We inevitably do gill as anytime. We turn on a new telescope particularly at a new wave. The history has been we learn something new and surprising. And i think that we very much expect that to happen when we turn on our first radio telescope through far in the next few years. And this sounds like a really big Thing jackson you said thousand so these dipoto Yeah that's eventually. I mean we start off small. As i mentioned. We start off with a single on antenna in next year. Our first radio telescope is going to fly to the moon with one of these small companies. That i mentioned to you that nasa has contracted bring payloads. This is a company called intuitive machines out of houston they're gonna bring Our radio telescope initially is going to be on the the near side and then a few years later that's going to be followed by a mission on the far side so we get this going And then hopefully. By the end of the decade where able to put down on initial array bet We'll have a hundred or so of these dipoto antennas to get started. And then we just the nice thing about these arrays of radio telescopes. We can just build them over time. Maybe even manufacturer the In tennis from the lunar a stockpile of material. I was about to say what you need is some sort of senseless locating. Yes exactly because when you're doing thousands of these things You just generate them and then put them on a rover and rover takes them out and ossets. You don't necessarily need humans to To do that. And so watch document gore. What what would be sort of the avia that you might core for this this whole entire so. It really is hitting a couple of areas of scientific interest so I would both referred to them as sort of our cosmic so cozma logically. It's trying to understand the very first stars and galaxies that were created in the universe that eventually led to our milky way into our son. So you know proving howley we get there. The other thing that we can do this array the other goal is going to be looking at nearby exo planets and there were probing radio frequencies a different aspect of habitability that is do these planets have a magnetic field and we know in the case of the earth the magnetic field is really important for life because it shields us from all of the harmful a space radiation coming from the sun as well as from supernova remnants and material supernova. That happened outside the milky way. So with these radio frequencies we can actually and an initial array will have the sensitivity necessary to determine In looking at these nearby exoplanets which are being discovered daily with whether or not they have magnetic fields and therefore are they good targets for a poor habitability that's interesting so the Declared hundred aches planets that have been discovered. One attribute beacon assigned to them is whether they have magnetic magnet field. This fit in the filling the gap in the in doing this at radio. Frequencies is the only way of that we can do it. And the radio frequencies are very low. They're below the ionospheric cutoff. So once again is one of these things that you absolutely must do. This from the far side of the moon is is magnetic field if necessary conditions or have it delivered. That's a really good question. I think this is actively debated in the community We know it's absolutely essential for life on earth because If you look. In contrast to mars mars had a magnetic field early on for probably the first few billion years but then its core cool the magnetic field shutdown and as a result the atmosphere of mars which once allowed liquid water on the surface thinned out Over time and so today mars has been transformed into a desert planet It's really hard to imagine any form of life certainly on the surface in a be some Some microbial life in the in the sub service. So here that's a good example of lesson. If you will of you know how a planet change dramatically From time that it initially had a magnetic field today in which it has no global magnetic feel so is it. is it radiation that it is it. is you have a solar wind. The sole wind which blows from the sun it. It contains a mass and velocity and so it's very effective at stripping atmospheres. It didn't strip the earth's atmosphere because once again the magnetic field deflects the solar wind which is made up of charged particles and so just the flex around the magnetic steel leaves our atmosphere alone the solar wind. You know in the case of of mars that that space radiation just goes right to the surface of mars these days and that's not true. If that was true in the earth. We wouldn't be here yet so Just jack i. I don't know much about this but it just wanted to get your perspective so They're not some Some hypotheses around planets around whitewater swift wasps They are not. That hard survey can be closer but then You know the radiation could be too high. So if fi find a planet that disclose but as beatty high magnetic field it might still been considered to be in could and that's the kind of of trade-offs as you want look at so many of the nearby stars are these red dwarf stars. They're they're also called indoor stars. They're cooler than the sun They're smaller. They also seem the flare a good bit and habitable zone where water would exist is closer to those stars as well so i think folks are worried that that environment might not allow a life to exist on those planets unless you did have a fairly strong magnetic field so yes the kind of thing that you'd want to look at and look for and investigate and we'll have the capability doing that in just a few years with a radio array on this is. This is an exciting thing jack Log of different objectives. It's going to be a process. A long term process From economic investment perspective substantial more efficient than the the missions that we have the l. cloud in the past so so given all of that In conclusion jackie look forward. Say five years ten years what your expectations may be be in. Five years and bear will be ten years. Yeah i think we'll be on our way back to the moon with humans and five years. I'm not sure we're going to get there Quite that time. But i confident that certainly By years after that will have other return of human astronauts to the moon. I also expect them a good bit of of scientific infrastructure to grow up on the moon. Not only out radio ray that we were talking about in radio. Telescopes but other scientific infrastructure is going to investigate the geology of the moon understand in different locations mining water ice turning into fuel Mining of materials on the moon so By the end of the decade. In ten years i expect to see a thriving scientific and Really in industrial entrepreneurial community that has risen excellent. Yeah good luck with the good lipid today and thanks so much. You're welcome countless pleasure. Thank you this is a scientific sense. Podcast providing unscripted conversations leading academics and researchers on brighty of topics. If you like to sponsor this podcast please reach out to info. At scientific sense dot com.
Our Window to the Stars
"So we all know what. It's like to wander outside and look up at the night sky on a clear night when you can see all of the stars perfectly. It's so easy to feel small. It makes you wonder what's out there beyond what we can see. The Hubble Space Telescope has helped us answer that question over the last thirty years revealing. That reality is often stranger-than-fiction. We've seen births and deaths of stars and we've found answers to questions. We never even thought to ask before. We've learned all of this incredible detail by looking back in time. Hubble is like a time machine in the sense that we can look farther and farther out into the universe at these fainter and fainter more distant galaxies. And by doing that. We're really looking back in time because it has taken time for that light to get to us from these stars and galaxies. That's Jennifer Wiseman. She's the senior project scientist for Hubble and says that the telescope is achieving more than scientists originally expected Hubble has recently contributed to the determination that the expansion of the universe is in fact accelerating. That was unexpected. Hubble has become the pioneering telescope and analyzing the atmospheres of EXO planets. Hubble has found the likely presence of water an moons around other planets using interesting innovative techniques. That was really not something. Hubbell was originally designed for so we're using Hubble now for kinds of science. We did not originally anticipate an after all this time. The discoveries we get from Hubble everyday are still knocking us back telling us more about the nature of our universe and its origins but Hubbell's journey to the stars was a difficult one. So how did it succeed? Welcome to NASA's curious universe. I'm Pattie Boyd. And in this episode. We're exploring a truly iconic NASA mission the Hubble Space Telescope our window to the stars. This is the story of how NASA put a telescope in space decades before the Hubble Space Telescope was even a possibility. The idea of looking beyond our own atmosphere was at the forefront astronomy back then most astronomers believed that the universe consisted of just one galaxy our own. Milky Way then Edwin Hubble came along and changed everything from a mountaintop near Los Angeles. He appeared up at the night sky with a ground based telescope the Hooker Telescope. Which at the time was the largest one in the world. That's when he spotted something. Amazing THE FUZZY OBJECTS. He noted in our sky. We're actually other galaxies and most of these galaxy spotted. Look like they were moving away from each other Edwin. Hubble was one of the pioneers that determined that our universe is in fact expanding. Galaxies seem to be moving apart from each other along with that stretching of space but we couldn't quite discern the rate of that expansion. It's a very difficult measurement. So the Hubble Space Telescope was able to contribute to a really higher precision measurement of that expansion rate by measuring more carefully the distances of these galaxies and correlating that with other measurements of their apparent velocities and giving us an expansion rate that was much more refined than anything ever before Edwin discoveries made scientists wonder if we could see all that coming from a ground based telescope. What would happen if we sent one above are murky atmosphere German scientists? Herman Ober dreamed of what we might learn if we could look at the heavens with an Astronomical Telescope in orbit unhindered by the shielding see of atmosphere that blankets the earth think of the discoveries. We would make the clear vision of the Universe. We would have echoing over vision. Astronomer Lyman Spitzer outlined the details for how to make it all work in an academic paper that would really set the stage for Hubble NASA. Set out on an adventure to place a telescope in space. This telescope would discover things that would revolutionize the way we think of our place in space. Here's what the Great Astronomer Carl Sagan had to say about this bold experiment. Space Telescope is in a way a little like Galileo's first telescope wherever? Galileo pointed his telescope. He made major new discoveries. Look at the moon. Mountains and craters look at Saturn rings. Milky Way refunded is littered of stars every one of these discoveries things that people had not known before. I think it's going to be very similar with the space. Telescope will illuminate celestial objects that we know about it discover celestial objects never before guessed it will provide insights into the most important questions such as diller evolution such as the search for planets going around other stars and grin this cosmological questions of the origin nature and fate of the universe based telescopes music kind of Grin intellectual adventure for all of us which will cast light just on the cosmos but also on ourselves. The telescope was built at Lockheed Martin in California with Nasr's Marshall Space Flight Center overseeing the telescope's construction. It was named after Edwin Hubble who paved the way for granted discovery but actually getting a telescope. The size of a school bus into space is difficult as you might. That's where the space shuttle Discovery comes in NASA space shuttles were designed to carry and deploy spacecraft likable with the space shuttle Discovery. Nasa astronauts would deploy Hubble at the edge of space in low earth orbit and returned safely to Earth. Nasa design the telescope to fit snugly inside shuttle Discovery which carried and released this precious cargo into space the shuttle Discovery Cape Canaveral launch. Tomorrow morning. It may be the most ambitious eagerly-awaited mission in the history of the Shuttle Program on board a giant telescope that will define our view of the universe when it launched in nineteen ninety. Hubble Space Telescope was only designed to last fifteen years in two thousand. Twenty telescopes celebrates its thirtieth birthday and hobble is still as powerful as ever. Hubble makes discoveries twenty four hours a day it's up there orbiting the earth and it goes around the Earth about once every ninety minutes. And so you know that's Michelle Taller. An astronomer and science communicator at NASA GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER IN GREENBELT MARYLAND. Goddard is home to Hubble's Mission Control Bubble Space Telescope. Is something that that just changed? Everything I think people now have this view. We know what to space look like. And they don't even realize that what they're thinking of is something. Hubble images brought to our culture to our imagination. She's right when you close your eyes and imagine space you probably picture stars beautiful colors and a sheer vastness the images that pop into your head are probably star studded and full of the colorful clouds of nebulous. That's because the pictures taken by the Hubble Space Telescope are the clearest and closest we've ever come to looking at our universe they've fundamentally shaped how we think of space and from space. Hubble can see a lot. Here's one way of looking at it. Imagine going to a piano concert and the musician sits down and can only played three notes around. Middle C. That's the amount of light we can see here on earth. Then there's a whole spectrum of light. Our eyes aren't sensitive to and that's where Hubble comes in hoboken see in multiple wavelengths of light like infrared and ultraviolet so Hubble's view would sound a lot more like a symphony NASA made a huge push in the years leading up to Hubble's launch to promote the revolutionary telescopes efforts. Nasa promised the public that this project would lead to important discoveries answers after all. This was the culmination of decades of work and research not to mention the financial and emotional investments riding on this mission on April Twenty Fourth Nineteen Ninety. The telescope launched one and liftoff of the space shuttle Discovery with the Hubble Space Telescope Window on the universe on Earth Mission control monitor the deployment carefully. They knew it was at stake. And this is Hubble telescope control in Greenbelt We have been given the go ahead to begin. Commanding release of the Ford lashes which hold the solar arrays in place during lunch. When the discovery crew set out to deploy the telescope. They were under a lot of pressure after all. Hubbell was set to be the greatest astronomical advancement since late picked up a telescope but something went wrong of course when Hubble finally got up and everybody was really excited there. Wasn't this amazing sense of deflation. When they opened up the telescope light went through it and they realize the images were out of focus and they were out of focus because the curvature of the mirror was wrong so I mean this was just an incredible mistake and people have been making very accurate telescope mirrors for a long time and the fact that all of a sudden up in space. What we're GONNA do now. You know this this. Incredibly valuable instrument was launched. There was this this tremendous problem. The first pictures that NASA saw here on Earth where fuzzy and distorted and it was all because of an incredibly small almost undetectable aberration a tiny error from when the mirror was constructed. Hubbell's vision was blurry but the telescope was still technically doing its job. At least as far as astronomers like Michelle were concerned the spectograph graphs still worked. Just fine. The images were out of focus. But all of the data you know the really detailed data about the universe was still coming in through these spectroscopy instruments so For for for people specifically doing my science hubbell started working beautifully. We were making incredible discoveries but of course we wanted to get those clear images to see the universe without the distortions of the atmosphere to see at beautifully beautifully. Clear from the beginning. Hubbell was designed to work hand in hand with the Space Shuttle Program. Nasa had anticipated that Hubbell would need to be modified and expected to send astronauts to do so in the coming years. What was not anticipated? Was that the first images coming from the Hubble Space Telescope. Were quite disappointing. There was obviously a problem telescope system. Conclusion we've come to from that as there's a significant collaboration appears to be president the optics and the optical telescope the Mirror on Hubbell had been ground beautifully but to a slightly incorrect formula. And this had not been caught in testing. This incredible idea was raised. The why don't we fix it? And then this is one of the Grand Adventures of NASA NASA set out on a daring rescue mission to save the Hubble Space Telescope. And they came up with a very insightful solution. Basically in some sense it's been described as putting glasses on Hubbell. These glasses were actually an instrument which was designed to correct. Hubbell's flaw a team of astronauts were prepared to service the telescope in Space. That we are inspired. We are ready. Let's go thanks. Sounds like a good plan and ever good morning. They made an instrument that actually corrected the light as before it went into the cameras took out the wrong curvature was I let girl all of a sudden snapped into beautiful beautiful focus. Everything was gorgeous so it is one of the most amazing happy endings in the history of science in the history of technology. Hubble servicing missions didn't stop with its initial rescue over the years. Hubble has been service Multiple Times John Grunsfeld is one of the astronauts who helped keep Hubbell in top shape for me as an astronomer going out in a spacesuit and working on the Hubble is just the ultimate experience. There's nothing cooler. How will it isn't incredible icon of science and so to me? It was the holy grail of being an astronaut. John worked on three repair missions to the telescope. Earning the nickname Hubbell's keeper from publications like The New York Times. I was expecting You know the wonders of space and the beauty of the earth. What surprised me the most was that I kind of discovered my humanity. You know being in a tight crew working together as a team with hundreds thousands of folks on the ground That there's really nothing. I think that that humans can't achieve if we work together as a team and if we have good challenges things that are worth doing. We can do almost anything. We know so much about our universe now because of people like John People who were watchful stewards of the telescope and who dedicated themselves to its success. Hummel has lasted a lot longer than we expected. We thought last ten or fifteen years if we were lucky but thanks to the series of astronauts servicing missions over the years. The telescope has been refreshed over and over again with repaired instruments and new batteries and gyroscopes and things like that refreshed new instruments as well and that has made the telescope. Basically brand new more or less every time we've done servicing mission and that's kept it at the forefront of scientific discovery to get a look at the outstanding imagery from the Hubble Space Telescope visit NASA dot Gov Slash Hubble. You can also follow the telescope on social media at NASA Hubble. This is NASA curious universe. The curious universe team includes Elizabeth. Tammy and Michaela Cosby. Our executive producer is Katie Atkinson. Special thanks to the Hubble Space Telescope team. If you're enjoying curious universe consider leaving a review on your podcast APP or tweeting about the show at NASA and in the next episode astronaut. Nick Haig takes us to an underwater training ground.
153: Hubble Trouble
"Welcome to lift off from your friends at really. Fm lift off as a fortnightly show. Where you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the latest news about space and related subjects. My name is steven. Hackett joined always on my coast. Mr jason snell hallows steven how are you. I'm good jason. How are you good so much happening in space and we are back Apologize to those. Who who just are staring hitting refresh on their podcast player waiting for lift off to come up every two weeks apologies. That were a couple of days late. We can't always record on and release on tuesdays and in fact. I'm just going to say it right here. Our next episode will also be a little late. It will be releasing Two weeks from a friday the sixteenth. Yes of july. So don't just keep hitting refresh on those tuesdays. I'm sorry but we won't. We won't be there. It's a summer summer summer space. Spe sure some are space right. Not nobody's doing that right in podcasts. I don't think so most summer events. Now we've got a lot to get through Including a very long preflight checklists. We had so many things in fact friends that i got a note from stephen earlier today. There's like i'm kicking. This went out to our tumbler. Just lift podcast out space by the way you can see links that we drop over there. We had so much didn't all fit. So so there's a story. About how the spacex. His neighbors are angry at it. That's all the tumbler so enjoy. That's right and they're going to Maybe do a starship over to launch this. True they might. They're they're talking about it they want to so we'll check back in with space x but we got lots of other things going on. Why don't we kick our prefect. Preflight checklists into gear. Yes tell me about space laundry kick when they're up kick them when they're down now. That's a sorry that's a song. Dirty laundry is done henley song from the early eighties anyway. Dirty laundry and space dirty laundry and space also shameless brand marketing in space but also science. And that's why. I thought it was worth talking about it so a laundry detergent. It's tied tied makes me. Itchy does make you edgy. I use all free. I use i use. Let's talk about laundry. Detergent here on our space podcast. Because that's what this segment is about. I use the odorless hypoallergenic laundry detergent. Same and i was staying with my mom in phoenix and she had smelly detergent. And i use the smelly detergent and i was like i feel like when once i got the close out of the dryer i i felt like i needed to put the back in the washing machine. 'cause they're all like smelling like i don't know what tied i guess it makes me break out like travel and like airbnb hosts uses tied than i usually have to run things back through the washing machine. Yeah wash the sheets and stuff because itchy. And it's weird. That's why they make the the hypoallergenic Detergent is for this reason anyway. So now that we've run tied down and said tied. It makes stephen itchy. Let me tell you what tides doing with nasa. This is a great story. I know that it's shameless. Marketing but it actually lead to some really interesting places. So tied has a deal with nasa. They're going to build a clothes cleaning system for space. All right. and you're you're saying to yourself do they not already have this ability and the answer is no. They don't currently astronauts like put on their clothes and they take them off but then they wear them again and then they take them off and then they were an after. They've worn them a few times and they're really dirty and smelly and stained because their stuff flying all around in zero g right so you gotta get lots of stains right things just like blobs or flying at you. Once they're done in there too dirty they put them they bag them up and presumably they go back on. One of these cargo returns to earth. I don't think they eject them to burn up in earth's atmosphere but but it a hundred and sixty pounds of clothing per crew member per year sent to the international space station. Wow and that's a lot and it costs a lot of money because every pound costs and so yeah close in space are disposable people gross and so this will obviously be a bigger problem on deep space missions. Because when you're going to mars or even hanging out on the moon it's even more trouble or impossible to carry that many sets of shirts with you. Obviously there are some other issues here. Water is limited in space. All of it gets purified back into drinking water. There's it's a closed system closed loop so this tide project. They have apparently formulated a new detergent. That degrades to the point that it can be used in the closed loop system and the washing water will be able to be purified back into good drinking water while also having that detergent get bad smells and stains and stuff out of clothes. So they're going to experiment with that. The article i read didn't say sort of like how they're going to do this. I imagine it's going to be something where there's like a bag that you put it in and and kinda squish squish the close around like because there's not hardware. They said they're actually investigating the possibility of building a washer dryer combo kind of system for close but but the story says that would be for martian or lunar gravity. Like they're feeling. Is that zero g. It's probably not having a washing machine. Zero g is probably a bad idea but that they could do it on the moon or mars But so i don't know the details of how they're going to do this on the iss but The idea there is that they will They'll try this with some astronaut close. They're also going to try some off the shelf tied stuff and do some experiments to see if like things like wipes and pens that are not full on the washing machine detergent can help lengthen the life of astronaut close. So obviously it's a publicity stunt by tied but at the same time as we as we learned actually during the early space missions sometimes companies to try this stuff out learn some lessons that they can then apply back to their products either practically or because they can say well. We tested it in space and it's good marketing. Who knows what the truth is here but like the fact is this is actually an issue because one hundred and sixty pounds of clothing per crew member per year is. That has a real cost plus. I think there's also the cost to the astronauts of the fact that they all stink. Let's hear it to clean that laundry in space. Although think about it you get you work really hard. You become an astronaut. You get to go to the international space station and then you gotta do laundry The worst schuyler in the relay members discord found. It's it's one of those nasa pages like its first oracle purposes when it was written but it talks about laundry at international space station and the picture of the space station is very small Susan older article but talking about how. Yeah kind of what. Your options are in cooley. It's a problem for a long time now. So they yeah. Sometimes they apparently shuttle it back to earth. Sometimes they just ejected. There are these like garbage missions that come back to earth but they're also the garbage missions that don't so who knows where it goes Although this page also says sometimes they could use it to as sort of soil to grow plants gross. Yeah anyway that's my dirty laundry updates. Stephen i'm glad we were able to clean that up. I talking about star liner and our liner. Remember star liner. What's happening with that. Every time we talk about star liner. I forget and then i'm shocked that it's first demo flight was in december twenty nineteen. It was that long ago. But if you'll remember that didn't go very well. They had a lot of software issues with the star liner itself. It wasn't able to get where needed to go. Nasa and boeing have been working since then to correct those issues and it looks like they're getting very close so the star liners second uncrowded dim of flight Has been fueled so the capsules already. It's expected to launch july thirtieth. So just a few weeks away. It'll be made it to its atlas five rocket before that launch. It will have a week long mission to the international space station and the goal here is to do all of this correctly without those issues that came up in the first demo flight. And if they're able to meet all those goals then they'll be able to move forward. One step closer to crude flight. Boeing is finally getting back on the horse with commercial crew. Good at last at long last. I i do wonder if this had not been a pandemic year. This would have happened sooner. I would have to imagine that slowed some of that collaboration down. But i'm glad they've got it over the finish line and nasa says they're They're very happy with the progress that has been made there. So i'm i'm i'm expecting this to be a a smooth flight for for the star liner. This time yeah. I hope so. I sure hope so. It's been a long time coming. But i hope they finally made it work. Yeah and it'll bring commercial crew up to its goal of having two providers right. Now it's just been spacex just going to be an embarrassment of riches but that's That's okay it's good. That's what we want that way. If there's a problem with either one you got the other one which is sort of where we where we've been up to now so yeah that's good. I let me give you a another space provider. Update it's It's virgin orbit. We don't talk a lot about but this is the system where a seven forty seven flies into the ocean and then launches a rocket into space by dropping it off of its wing interesting. It is so they just had their second successful launch They put seven cubesats into orbit. They have a seven forty seven with the name cosmic girl and it took off from the spaceport in mojave. California flew out to the pacific. Coast dropped the launcher one. It fired off the first stage oriented itself for space headed out. You know drop. The first stage went to the second stage got to orbit launch the satellites great. So that's too successful launches virgin orbit. The question is sort of now. What because space launch has become a very competitive business Also virgin orbit has invested a billion dollars to get to this point of having a small launcher And as a comparison like electron has reached this point with about one hundred million so and spacex spent about one hundred million to get a falcon one up and running which is comparable kind of rocket to this so they put in a lot of money However there is an interesting twist here which is because it's the airplane based thing. They can launch from anywhere in the world so they can take the plane anywhere and they they can take their ground support equipment anywhere They're already planning a launch from guam launch from england and apparently they are talking to other countries as well whether that's enough to make this a viable business model who knows things are changing so fast in the space launch game. I guess we'll see but this is an interesting kind of a. It's a victory for virgin orbit because they've really made these two launches now and it really says that they've got a viable launcher and it doesn't look like the launched from the ground. The idea here by the way is just why. Do you fly up on a plane. It's like well higher. You fly the plane. The thinner the not only is it shorter to get the space. But it's thinner the air so you the the amount of fuel that you need to get into orbit last and so it can be more economical that way. So we'll see what happens with original but today are they are kind of up and running now with their launch program. Yeah so you could have whatever your cargo is staged around the world in a way that right. Now you've got haul it to florida or across the ocean right. That's the trade off right is like what's the cost of taking the plane. And the and their ground equipment to you in england versus taking your satellite that you built in england and sending it to florida or to gaetana for to be launched right and then presumably you could also do polar orbits where you went up to up toward the you know some some airport toward the north pole and launched them from their like their lots of of. That's their that's their thing. That's their value. Proposition really is. We can launch from anywhere very cool. I was excited to see this happen. It's been a long time coming for them. Yeah it's just it's a very different kind of kind of launch. Yeah yeah it is. It's like oh it's the plane. Oh there's a rocket strapped to the bottom of it tucked up under the wing and then there's there's actually a shot as it's launching where you can see the airplane kind of like in the background kinda headed off and as as it goes up into space pretty great. I wanna talk about blue origin for second. We know that their i crewed flight is coming up at scheduled. July twentieth is jeff bezos. And his brother and there were two other seats. One has gone to an unnamed highest bidder or they had that auction but the fourth seat was named today and i. I was so excited to see this. So wally funk is an eighty two year old woman she was part of the mercury thirteen group which is a group of women who underwent the same testing as the original mercury seven astronauts. Of course were all all men. But these women didn't get a chance to fly. In those early days of nasa in fact it would be a couple of decades Before a woman astronaut from nasa would fly but while he had had a unbelievable flying career. There's a quote in this article flying Almost twenty thousand hours and saying basically if there's a license for i have had that license and can fly it and she has been named to that fourth seat for blue origins i crewed flight. So she wasn't able to to be part of the mercury program but is going to have some time in zero g Thanks to blue origin. And i just i think it's really awesome. Yeah i think this also shows jeff basis awareness of space history. You know the importance of symbolism in something like this to give her the ability to to go into space It's pretty great like you don't have to do this. But this is a really nice symbolic gesture. I would say and reading interviews with her she is. She's excited about it. She i don't think she she doesn't seem stressed about it. I mean someone like this stressed about flying on a new vehicle right. This is what they do so yeah it is really cool and yeah basis Announced it on on instagram. And we still don't know the the unnamed buyer that auction being twenty eight million dollars got a little rich for us here on the liftoff guest. Alas i know we just. They don't use title blue origin. Because you scope and go down. So i could have done it tied at two. The previous story tied it. Let's move on okay. tell me about hungry. Black holes They're they're more exciting than hungry. Hungry hippos they are bigger so this is a gravitational wave astronomy update. And the whole life of lift-off. We've been talking about the lie. Go and virgo. The gravitational wave observatories have ushered in this brand new era of astronomy where you use gravitational waves disturbances in space time to detect gravitational events in the universe and they have spotted a whole bunch of interesting things even in these early days black holes merging neutron stars merging but. They recently spotted something that they've never seen before and a happened twice. it's the combo platter. It's a black hole and a neutron star merging. Which you know. They've been talking about this for a long time but the whole point here is that we never seen it. We've never had evidence of it actually happening. And now they spotted at the first one they spotted. It's a black hole with about nine times. The math of the mass of the sun nine solar masses an a neutron star with about one and a half solar masses And then ten days later they saw another pair of the same black hole plus neutron star in a different part of the universe. Little bit lighter less mass than the first pair but pretty close so again confirming things that have been long theorized but nothing that we actually had seen before and value of. This is one informs us about what kind of binary star systems might exist all around the universe. It raises questions about why we haven't seen any of these mergers in our own galaxy. And the more of these we see the more we can generalize about these events in when they occur so having seen two of them as great. It'll be even better when we see ten twenty and fifty and one hundred because it gives us a much better idea of the population of these objects and how these events how frequently these events happen and what their masses are in all of those things so it's a great first step. It's always good for science when you see something that has been predicted for a long time. But you've never actually had evidence for it happening and ligon virgo have really paid off in terms of providing the receipts for this stuff. One hundred percent. I remember when we first talked about it. It was still before the time that some of those results had come out. We're talking about like what. Yeah it was a wild wild idea. What if we dixon tunnels with some beams and we think see wait and see if the universe wiggles like really and it totally works turns out wiggles more than we thought. Yeah exactly all right so we got a couple of topics today but you went. Oh people about our friends over at clockwise. Yeah just a really quick break to tell you about another show here real fm. It's clockwise. dan morning. I invented this show. I left a few years ago. But it is still powering on and i really love the format of it. So it's dan moore and in my sergeant. They bring two guests every week and They cover four technology topics in thirty minutes. It's a really nice short fast paced. Podcast where you get some quick hits about four topics of interest in the technology world from a diverse pool of tech professionals again to new guests every week. So check it out. It's fun it's not going to take two hours of your time every week to listen to. It is always thirty minutes or less. Go to really dot fm slash clockwise just search for clockwise wherever you get your podcast and Yet tell him. I sent you you. They won't hear you 'cause you'll be talking to your podcast app and it doesn't work that way but tell him i sent you anyway all right so we've been talking a lot about the chinese space program over the last several months with their new rover on mars and their new space station. What's going on lots lots going on. So the first. There's the jurong rover on the surface of mars. It's set back some amazing video. It did we got the public posting of the video downloads from zhengrong over the last couple of weeks Just like perseverance. There's some video of entry descent and landing which is very impressive. it's always interesting to see a spaceship Come into into an atmosphere and land on a planet especially an alien planet. There's also some sound from a microphone on the descent and some sound of the microphone as as it rolls off its platform that it landed on and in what i think is a very clever development and i'm sure there are some good reasons for including be able to kind of observe what's happening on the the wheels of the rover but it's also a lot of good pictures. Come out of it. They dropped a remote camera when Sharron was close to the landing platform. And then it kind of moved back so that could get in like a a a selfie Sort of or. I guess it really is. The video is kind of a third party now so it's not really a selfie anymore. Video cameras taking a picture of the lander and the rover together And there's also some really great clothes video. As the as the treads roll along on the lander and i think that's really nice from a Engineering perspective that they get to look at that and see. Like how the. How the treads fair on martian soil. And one. that looks like so. It's pretty great though to get we. We see a lot of selfish on mars But this is by dropping this little remote camera. They get to do some Angles that we haven't seen So much because it's from a third party kind of radioing back the picture. It's like a webcam. Basically the there's one shot in here where the rover is turning all of its wheels and so all them face the camera so imagine a checking on the wheels but also just making sure that all the movement is you know everything's working as expected And as a bonus you get this really cool footage that you can share with the world of like look at our thing on mars. I mean that shot of driving over the camera and driving away is really really inspiring. Right i i saw that thought. Well that's enough reason to drop that camera there just just that shot let alone the information. They're going to get back. There's there's somebody. jpl who see. I told you we should've put a drop droppable camera on like all right. Had dragged the gopro right on the surface of mars. Yeah seriously so other. Other news. Three chinese astronauts docked with the space station. They're the first visitors to china's space station module. They're going to be there for three months. It's going to be talking about doing laundry and space. They gotta do testing and setup the unpack all the flat pack furniture. And you know. I think there's some solar panels to deploy in like. There's a lot of work that they have to do for three months. Getting this thing kind of up to speed. Because they're the. I guess at the space station. They're going to be eight more launches required to build out the whole thing. A china says that they should be able to do it by the end of twenty twenty two. that's pretty fast and And quite a contrast how long it took to symbol the ss. Which i'll grant you as a more ambitious thing but still Building a whole space station a couple years Not bad it actually made me wonder what it would cost to build the iss now or a new version of the iss now. I assume that launches are way cheaper. Especially if you're not a building it all around the shuttle program right but you also don't have a space shuttle to kinda build it by being there with its own Robotic arm and stuff you would need to instead kind of let the modules get up there and then like the chinese are doing attach the astronauts and have them do some spacewalks and sort of like. I think it might be more of a construction challenge. But i wonder about that like would it be. Would it be faster and cheaper to build. Something like ezra rebuild iss today versus the way that it was originally conceived given what is available to launch. And what the cost of launches are or today or in the future where you have things like the later blocks of the s. and you have starship and gateway as a space station that's going to be built in lunar space. That is an example of this. But it's just if if i assess assess isn't gonna last like even the people wanted to last it. It's it's been up there a very long time and it's going to start being beyond its useful life and the question is what happens next and if there is a lower orbit space station that that happens next. What is that going to cost. And i would imagine that we could do away more efficiently than the iss. Yeah one thing. The shuttle did provide is crew housing. Deering all that or in stages early stages. If the i wasn't big enough you could stay in the shuttle and the shuttle itself as a construction implement but with gateway and others. You know them. And there's even i mean all the different versions of artists. There was even discussion of. Maybe they'll be two launches. And orion with crew will be on the ls and falcon heavy or starship will carry components right. I mean it. You have more flexibility now but maybe across different vehicles. That's a really interesting thing to think about. And then i had another side thought which again not really related to the chinese space station as much as just a aside thought I wonder when we talk about the shuttle being decommissioned all that i wonder if there should be a program and i wonder if nasa has gone back and forth on this or not or whether they've just dismissed it or or whether there's a commercial opportunity here but if we don't have a vehicle like the shuttle and we want to do something that used to require the shuttle what capability have we lost and should we be putting some investment in getting that capability back and i think about something like building things in space and repairing things in space like could. Should there be a you know. Like commercial crew and commercial cargo. Should there be like a commercial eda module a commercial repair truck kind of thing because like we talk about a hubble space telescope. And you're going to talk in a little bit about. The trouble is going on. With the hubble like there was that last hubble servicing mission and hobbles pretty old again it may be that that no amount of servicing is going to keep it running but it may be that it could run for another decade or two. If it was serviced they did the last hubble servicing mission with the shuttle and it was very much like this is it because the shuttle's being decommissioned and we have no other way to service the hubble and i think well okay what what about that though could we not make an effort so that we have a way for astronauts if not robots if we can't do robot repair which would be another way to go can we have astronauts and send them to hubble or send them to james webb which i know is going to be way out there but like it feels to me like There should be more discussion of that. Which is without a space shuttle. How do we let people fix stuff in space and have we lost capability that we're gonna regret 'cause you can't. It can't all be robotically repaired especially the further away from earth you get because the lag becomes too great the radio lag or is there a combination where you send people out. But they've got access to robotic tool so there's sort of staying inside and steering it. I don't know it's just another thought. I had because i find it. I still find it a little uncomfortable. That hubble can never be repaired again and james webb space telescope cannot be repaired if something happens to it because we don't seem to have the ability to send astronauts to an orbiting place and have them get out and fix things right there because that was sort of a that was the space shuttle's job anyway one more thing about chinese space program before we get to hubble which is there was a press conference with the secretary general of the china national space administration. china doesn't talk about the stuff that often but they listed a bunch of future objectives. I thought i'd throw him into this segment. There are planning three new chung a missions to the moon including a sample return and a south pole mission. They're they're working on a near. Earth asteroid sample return mission. They're working on a mars sample. Return so it's not just sort of the us and its partners but china's also working on a mars sample return mission. They're talking about the end of the decade for that one and they're talking about doing jupiter probe which would sounds like launch around twenty thirty and among the proposals for that mission includes a lander that would land on the the jovian moon callisto. So they've got a lot of ambition in their In their space program and that's sort of what is public right now. Yeah a lot of ambition and and so far there yeah. We talked about the issues with the chinese space agency. A lot not to read recap all of those but in terms of mission objectives. They seem very capable in terms of of what they want an candy. Yeah and there's a lot of geopolitics involved here The role of russia. Who is said that they're working with china on a bunch of things but they're still working with the us on the iss. And what's really going on with the russian space program which is not very well funded. Although they are launching a an iss module of all things that they've been working on for a very long time that will be their science module. A russian owned science module but like what their role is and what the competition is and the fact that there is a law that prevents nasa working with the chinese government on space is interesting and was an bill nelson. The administrator of nasa said that he supported the law which was kind of interesting. It was not like we'll follow the law. Which was i. Think what. I've heard from other previous people at nasa but but more than that sort of i support the law which is interesting so i don't know something to keep watching. Chinese ambitions in space are great and growing Let's have hubble since. I mentioned hubble teased hubble for awhile There's there's hubbell but is it in trouble. There is trouble ohno so this started actually a couple of weeks ago Back on june thirteenth the payload computer on the hubble space telescope halted operation. And then the next day the team went to go restarted and failed to restart properly This means that the space telescope is in safe mode. This payload computer is it is a nasa standard spacecraft computer and s c one built back in the eighties and as you would imagine. Everything is fully redundant on this. There's a fully redundant second computer with all of its associated hardware so if something happens on orbit can be switched over to that backup computer. What's going on here is. It seems like one of the computer's memory. Modules may be the issue basically bad ram in that scenario with the team would do is stay on the primary computer and moved to one of the backup memory modules and so there are two computers primary and backup and there are four memory modules. Each computer has a primary and backup memory module so this at this point on the thirteenth in the days after that didn't look like it was it was going to need a full boot up of the second computer to switch over to the different memory module. And you would be good to go whether it's computer does is basically take the data coming off of the instruments and translates it Where it can be sent back to earth. It also is responsible for receiving instructions from or so. It's the communication link basically. It's the brain of the of the space telescope. Unfortunately switching to that backup memory module didn't fix the issue that was attempted on the sixteenth. But that actually failed to complete and it seems like there may be something more central going on. It would be unlikely that both the primary and backup memory module would would have failed you know effectively at the at the same time And so on the around the twenty third or so about a week ago the team went to go turn on the backup computer actually for the first time. Ever and space. Hubble has has since launched run on that first payload computer but dab. The backup computer showed the same issues. Display the same issues where it could not talk read or write from its own to memory modules. And so that gives the team reason to look at other components. Having all of these failed in the same way would be highly highly unusual. And they're looking at things like The power supply into the computers looking at the command unit science data four matter which is a component of the space telescope the sits basically in between the instruments and the computer and if that thing is freaking out or causing errors or giving bad data to the computers maybe there in some sort of state. They can't do what they're supposed to do. So this is ongoing as of this recording hopefully whatever it is can be found and addressed from the ground. There's a lot of redundancy built into these systems but definitely i think a good reminder that the hubble is not new as got some some real real age on it. I was really concerned about this. But saw tweet from john grunsfeld who is a former astronaut and was the lead for science at nasa as an associate administrator and his tweet. Is the team working on hubbell. Recovery are masters of engineering and very cautious. I'm optimistic that they will succeed. So i took that as you know the idea here is. They're trying to figure this stuff out like they're they're they're not gonna they know how fragile this is 'cause you know you can't send somebody up there to write plug. It in. Unplug unplugged back in press the restart button and all of that. So they're just taking it taking it slow but it is scary to think that this could be the end but hopefully hopefully not especially since we can't fix it right like i said earlier but it is going to fail at some point but i think everybody's hoping that we'll get a lot more time out of hubble. Yeah hopefully so that. Those teams are working hard to get get this resolved so hopefully we can come back with good news next episode up so that it's been since two thousand nine that that the hubble was last serviced. So that's how long they replaced a whole bunch of stuff to hope that it would actually at the time. They hoped that it would allow for some overlap with the james webb telescope. So it's lasted a long time. It's not it's not entirely hubbell's problem that it hasn't overlapped with james webb. It's been twelve years since at servicing mission. So hopefully it'll keep on going. And we'll get the james webb up there and They will be able to do a real kind of baton pass in space. They're not actually near each other. But you know what. I mean symbolically call it. A relay doesn't sound right I think that. I think that does jason. I think that's it. I think we've done enough damage for this one. That's right you can't find links to the stories. We spoke about on the website at relay dot fm slash liftoff slash. One fifty three. Who while you're there you can send us an email with feedback or follow up. You can become a member and support liftoff directly. Thank you all of you. Who are members of lift. Offer other rela- shows you can find us online. Jason is on twitter as j snell and you can find me there as i s h until our next fortnight jason. Say good bye. Bye everybody bye.
Bonus Bugle - Swine Flu, Kerala, Adverts
"Bugle audio newspaper for Visual World. Buglers and welcome to bugle issue. Four thousand one hundred fifty three some episode II for our bike it's stump Andy's sman and we are having a week off full blown bugling this week because I if I talk about the Vars for a week. I'm hoping it will just go away. Be Lost weeks live bugle? Livestream live over on my so much that it cut into my writing time for this week's show and see because it was written in the stalls has indeed all things if you have a powerful enough telescope. That's what a bundle of audio newspap- Peres delights. We have for you. Instead we have classic material from the Bugle Archives Cody from another dimension. Courtesy of all parallel universe system caused the loss post lies about a premium voluntary subscribers and more bits from last week's live show and because it is still lockdown another quiz. Yes before we join Alice. Fraser the post to find out what has been going on here but also elsewhere Because you all loved the bugle excessive multiple choice quiz so much lost week I'm giving you even more quicktime this week. Now some of you might not like it cusack and you say but these are less excessively multiple choice and they are also on the sainted holy issue of sports now in the last few weeks. I've co hosted a couple of live charity. Sports quizzes online for the wonderful muscular dystrophy. Uk charity to them. If you can in the second of these quizzes Loss Week. They made the mistake of allowing me to settle round of questions. Of course if I had known me better they would have been fully aware that I cannot be trusted with this level of responsibility in case you did not take part in that cuisine. Statistically it is almost one hundred percent certain that you did not take part in that quiz. You'll receive all five questions from my sporting curiosities round interspersed through this week's sub episode Roger Answers down on a literal or metaphorical piece of paper. And I'll give you the correct answers at the end of today's show. All of these questions have a genuine factual provable. Truthful answer honest question one. We'll know the Olympics is the absolute pinnacle of Sports. Unless you prefer other sports and also that some of the sports in the Olympics are completely not ridiculous mentioning now sports. You know who you are drunk. Roman what might anyway question one in sporting curiosities quiz which of the following has never been an event at the Summer Olympics. A ICE HOCKEY B. Halsey long jump see whacking people with sticks de military patrol a sculpture F- cricket all G Shooting Pigeons until that date. So that's question one. Do think about that. All the on says will come at the end of the case and whilst you think about your to question one. Let's hear a couple of choice chunks from the last post. The daily work imaginative wonder with which Alice? Fraser has been regaling at least two parallel universes throughout this year. A couple of excerpts for you now featuring alleged mutiny and will anderson your ad section now because sometimes it's hard to feel like you have a legacy but buying stuff is as good. A channel to immortality is anything else and this episode of the podcast is brought to you by a whole glass of water. Just kidding half a glass of water whether you're an optimist or pessimist be a half a glass of water kind of person reduce spillage and increase satisfaction with half glass of water half a glass all class and a new novel is out by self published Romance Maven and online Bestseller Dancy Lagarde. The Dragon Look the Dragon. Lords ladies the fifteenth in La God's groundbreaking fantasy romance detective Thriller Series with a Supernatural Twist. Bolivian is a ruthless mercenary. The bastard son of the Dragon King proving himself to his estranged father by running merchant caravans through the wild desert wastes of the blighted quadrant. He's dragging cunning says him well in the cutthroat trade cities of Sir the woman but his human half cut help hungering for more settled life and a maiden of his own cell. Alexandra is an orphaned. Hilo of one of the recently demolished which tribes traveling across the blighted quadrant to claim her inheritance from her aunt. The sexy sinister feminist witch crane trained as an assassin on SPEC by wondering assassin who was adopted by her which tribe Selig's Andhra prefers to use her skills for healing. But sometimes it goes just got to become a whirlwind of graceful death when her caravan is set upon in the desert by phonetics seeking. The death of the witch Queen's air. She's the only survivor which is basically the opposite of what the fanatics would going for protected by a magic amulet. She's all alone in the desert with nowhere to go until Balenciaga's caravan picks her up and saves her life lengthy broodingly reluctant to bring on a useless extra mouth in his economically. Viable caravan but sell Alexandra. Sandra promises to exchange healing and assassination services for passage through the desert. She wants to be annoyed by his mercenary ruthlessness but she's drawn to his brooding masculinity and he's unusually high temperature when he falls ill from aware when he falls ill from a rare blighted quadrant dragon. Fever she uncovers his dragon secret and draws him back from the brink of death with the only cure from dragon fever which is having sex. They should when they reach the trade cities of Sorrento but Valenciennes Dragon has bonded with Alexander and he promises to protect her on her way to a feminist. Which aren't what will happen to their burgeoning romance when he finds out that Selig. Sandra is the which Queens Air Will the sinister feminist witch queen ever accept such a manly dragon. Man as Selig Zana's consort. Who Will they assess an along the way how many pages can seen take find out in the Dragon? Lords lady available now only by the light of the desert mood and that's had section for today a lost post. Now it's time for your top feature section in the weekend magazine. Top Feature Section. Meet and results in your. I'll meet correspondent was happening in the world of the meat while meets has been affected by The Corona virus outbreak as much as Any other form of food are people still still eating it. not easing and I going to stop Stop eating it and Meet of course. It's been interesting times of meat. The meat industry's been under a lot of pressure to to Well I mean. Animals getting increasingly irritated by being the victims of the meets are the meat industry supporters in the in the human communities. Let you know kind of alternatives vegan meat or Vegetables as is also known But southern meat industry has been fighting for survival in I had a big coup this week when the Queen who is of course patron of the British animals association alongside many other. Things didn't of read messages to the nation on just sat at a table napkin tucked into a color wolfing down a plate of chicken nuggets with a big loved. Royal Hands Whilst boiling the camera. Before saying go so could and wiping away a squish of catch out from Chin Cushy keeps a bottle in her crown. The crown camouflage is a bottle of Ketchup. Which is an old royal tradition? It used to be flag blood. Which the Mongols always keeping the crown just in case To fake their own death escaping actually assassinated back in the olden times. I'm so Meat is Well having to adapt to changed global economy people change parties still no news on an official relaxation the various religious laws on mates regarding the slaughter preparation gobbling of of meat. I am hearing on Rumors however the leaders of least three of the world's top religions are in official discussions with The renowned diety who of course runs various apparently competing franchises like the ruthless entrepreneur. He's always been and there are rumors are. I'm hearing that the Almighty may soon say he is quote not actually that fast any more about people eating things that were dodgy thousands of years ago in a hot climate so This could be an exciting development. Four four four meet in particular disappointingly. However this won't be backdated so of still got hell of law. Bacon sandwiches to account for clearly a lot of arguments about meet ethics Around at the moment and The pendulum swinging back. Because for a long time there's been The idea that you try to make farming a little more humane and kind to the animals but is now swinging back in favour of brutally intensive battery farming and life lifetime of cruelty to these animals. Because then if you think about it we'll have to happen to an animal to become a meat. I. I'm not entirely sure of the process and the a key of it. That's not really. Oh Oh no holidays. So many ought don't think about it So the thing is if you intentionally fell from creatures In horrible conditions. Then the Abitur actually become a sweet release from suffering rather than if you if you abide by animal welfare and you get a lovely live gambling around in the fields and then suddenly we off you. Go Hello Mr Bulk on. That has a harrowingly abrupt and merciless curtailing of a lovely existence. Which is in many ways worse? Would you say Shivani not probably no no? So you know this. As with any ethical argument that there are many many many many sides to that stats multi-facetted Coin Lost Post. Now it's time for your top story. Your top story today. Advertising News. We'll Bradenton your advertising correspondent. What's happening in the world of advertising right now? I must correct you there. Ls unfortunately while you were going to those ads. And I'd why you're absolutely one of the leading podcast when it comes to integration of advertising into the point constantly. Remind you very much in the industry for that The more ads the bed. That's what we say but I've actually taken that time to rebrand myself as the Ad Sassan so I am now officially the ads. And that is the only way I can be referred to for the rest of the You can never miss a branding opportunity. And you've got to be the first person there to register that domain and that is actually very appropriate to what we're gonNA talk about heat to dialyse because these being saying at the moment you talk about half a glass of water. Well we more your commitment to the all the properties Papa Glass of water in fact when you started I talking about half a glass of water. I was working on the full glass of water account and they did not think that that would be rocked by your advertisements. At the time people were like. Why would somebody have half a glass of water when you can have a full glass of water but then suddenly clauses of water full glasses of water? We saw a messy drop in people drinking full glasses of water and we thought well. Maybe it's just people with bigger glasses drinking the same amount of water but it was not it. Was people drinking half a glass of water and we were actually GONNA start a smear campaign against you to take you down to say you anti the coronavirus. Because Hoffa gloss awarded was clearly not enough to wash your hands for twenty seconds. We literally had a file on you full of your do but unfortunately was in a USB thumb drive and then someone dropped that usb thumb drive into half a glass of water. I heard. Of course I couldn't speak directly to that. That would have nothing to do with me personally. Just the spokesperson Okay today's advertising us. That's what I'm here to tell you about. Today's advertising well. Today's Advertising News. Is that the stock markets are falling and some predicted a tough talk for advertising. But I'm he to tell you to take stock markets. How full approach now. Lsu Nov Climb Mount Everest many times. I've been to the top. The summited Mt Everest more times than any other human being The last climbed Everest like climbed with activated clinch. And I'll tell you a secret I like to climb with people who was substantially shorter the me because that way when I reached the summit I still have a slightly bitter view and that makes me feel powerful. Funny Story Peyton do it. But I convinced him. We will shooting something for the final series of game of thrones. He was pretty mad when he folded solo the final series. And it wasn't in day but I was happy because I'd managed to do a deal with the produce and starbucks to sleep in a Coffee Cup and all the way to the bank a want revealed the size of the deal did there but let's say was Vinci. Sorry why I tell you that stories. One Day pated deeply climbed on the shoulders Sherpa and he was higher than me and in that moment I saw listen for the world that sometimes by small because they can stand on the shoulder of giants so this is the time for the advertising industry. This is the time for us. In the advertising industry to lane in when it comes to a pandemic. It's all about timing. You've got to know what to immediately stockpile you've gotTa know and for me it was Ip intellectual property. That's what you've gotTA stockpile immediately. I immediately trademark advertising terms. Where all in this together in these difficult times and I also got in these troubled times in these challenging times and in these uncertain times I did miss out on unprecedented but in my defence it was an unprecedented rush on unprecedented. Do Subscribe to the lost post for a daily dose of Phrase Irian Phraseology and other worldly wonders time now for question to in all sporting curiosities quiz the night to February nineteen sixty three. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that. That was a day the Boeing seven. Two seven made its first flight or you might be more likely to know that if you are a rocket scientist you much picked it up in background reading butts on that Day Ninety. February one thousand nine hundred sixty. Something happened in a men's five nations rugby match not happening any men's five or six nations match ever since what was that thing was a a nil nil. Draw be the referee came from the home country There was an Irish referee at the loss of matter. Home-country referee and I five or six nations game. See a drop goal when you have to the ball on the ground kicking out over the posts. scored full points since being reduced to three was it. D- All fall starting props for those unfamiliar with rugby. They are the so. We say sizable gentlemen. Who generally don't move. At high-speed bought can wrestle rhinoceros ground. All four of those starting props scored a try this. The last time that happened. Was it a the last time? They had shirts fee skins in an international rugby match Both teams turned up With shirts having running the wash to kind of light green color answer they played shirts against skins all F. It was the last time a live animal was used as the bowl. A small water called Ian from Dublin. Zoo was the unlucky creature on that occasion after certain protests and injuries. That's tradition who's quietly shelved so that's question to what do you think about your answer to question two. Let's go back in time now. as you would know if you are a student of history history is full of history repeating history and whilst the virus that has been having the shit out of everything. This year is a new. An unusually crafty diseases like it had been existence evidence. Pandora got peckish and peaked her lunchbox all those years ago and back in issue. Seventy two of the bugle eleven salting years ago would you believe John. Oliver and I reported exclusively on another bout of Viral Shenanigans Thompson. This week old McDonald pig now. Oh McDonald's Day yes it swine flu in this emergency vehicle to injected straight into the as an antidote. But it's not exactly not an antidote data. Pigs Andy so longer approval player in the news have taken center stage this week as threatened to wipe out the human right. We can't say we weren't warned on George. Joulwan always said that they were snout little Boston's two legs. Good forelegs bad. He pretty much wrote a whole book. About how you keep an eye on pigs. At least that's what I took from it. I'm pretty sure we. Several masterpiece was based around the thesis. Never Trust a pig as are relative relatively criminally underappreciated English exam. Yup It's H One n one back or swine flu or pig flu or piggy flu or at you to give it. Its various different names spreading. I'm a concern around the World John but also spreading delights across Israel and the Jewish world. Were just like me. They've all spent most of the week punch in the out saying say your rights all along Dotty dotty animals. The has been control coal. The virus initially. It was called swine flu then pink flu than of Mexican flip. Choose to the port connection again. This virus was not culture the AU called novel flew for reasons. Best known to themselves and France even opted to call it. North American flew off site Frenchies. That is just lazy outdated anti-americanism you cannot be a standard French flu. But then called. Freedom flew over here so soccer well a bomber calls it h one n one influenza. I. He's always had a way with words so poetic so uplifting we'll hear some of the headlines from the pipes this week maxine no And looking at the pictures all the veterans wandering around Mosques Seco and no sir pandemic odium. Those clearly weren't headlines but I could have beaten US important thing but the end of the week the World Health Organization itself. I announced that it would stop using the term swine flu to prevent confusion over the danger posed by pigs a spokesman said rather than cooling this. We're going to stay the technical scientific name. H One n one influenza right now. Is this in response to potential pig. Vigilante attacks other gangs roaming the streets are not looking for white. Would pigs farmers doing drive-by shootings tractors on farms spraying the side of stories with bullets a Wednesday Egypt? started slaughtering. It's roughly three hundred thousand pigs. Despite soins explicitly saying that the virus was not passed on by eating pork. Not a good time and they put a stop developing a pretty convincing cow impression in the next few days. He's to be honest even if there was a risk. Eighteen pink jealousies. I Love Bacon. Andy I don't guess of never before really had a barometer to gauge. Just how much viking? But now do all of so much. I'm willing to risk death. I want to play bike and roulette with every joint. Yeah the flu kicked off like so many things in Mexico and also so many things from Mexico. It has now sneaked across the border into America. Do well shall we. Won't you? Paul Saltzman Paul. Limbaugh you looking. For a high profile provocative talk show ever hear court few gaps in the DORIC. That's a yellow card. Well I've ahead. John People have been reacting with similar concern at the certain prospect of Paisley wiping out humanity. In fact just yesterday. I should've gone my local supermarket standing next to the bike encounter and booing for about half an hour. So I think you might want hades. I Talk Cool joke you. Hi My wife's been fairly for a couple of days so she went to the doctor influenza. Well did it voice. Her to seek professional medical opinion but in the end was her own choice. Pig flu how dare you say that about my wife No? She got the train racing such unusual areas. I think thanks Mike. I'll take that as a compliment. Well I'm pretty sure it wasn't one lead. The world is on pandemic level face five. Now that doesn't sound too bad until the scale only goes up to face six. That is one a from the highest level available which would indicate I full pandemic but still not a pandemic not a pandemic now. It's been hard to accurately judge exactly how many cases of swine flu. They're all due to the fact that everyone the cuff now thinks they've got it. It's been a great week for panicked overreactions reactions on Wednesday. The whol kind that far from the more than one hundred fifty one flu deaths that in fact being officially on seven people have been quick to point the swine. Flu Finger anyone he mike. The mistake of dying in the low seventies Terry died. I think it was swine flu. What are you talking about Terry was hit by a bus on the sworn flew? Probably got in first then. The bus got involved. Facts always on the subway this week. Which incidentally was noticeably restful and Agai coughed a woman opposite nervously. Put a handkerchief over mouth the soldiers and said L. Lady. I don't have pig flu. I don't think she was fully convinced. Also he might have had take flu but he also didn't have any social skills is one of the symptoms. Apparently our over. There you go. That was nothing next to will happen to Baltimore. International Airport when an inbound flight from Mexico radioed ahead that two passengers on board had suspected swine. Flu Apparently had fevers sick to their stomachs. The fire rescue departments ambulances scrambled to make the plane on the runway but after careful examination as the two men had just had too much to drink drunk. Cal One everybody. We have got to come down. He's one of the symptoms of swarm. Flew stinking tecate singing Lebombo itself of Your Voice. Because I'll come down with a spotless. One flew in a karaoke balls. So how much should we be? Panicking the World Health Organization current advises I level five flop which is still well short of the top level six screaming hysterical frenzy but more serious than their level for frown. The level five flap. Requests People's take speculative and useless precautions like wearing a home made mask cancelling holidays to countries beginning with them and praying and also to call an ambulance whenever they feel an unscheduled itch. In Britain The government claims it has enough The Tamiflu vaccines to treat eighty percent of the population. Oh now sounds like a Guy. National Guy with musical chairs. Well jody say that. Well that is basically England covered. Some of you know. According to the famously non-existent British constitution medicine. This distributed strictly by alphabetical order of country. I'm sorry wiles is not looking good for you but flu was largely Monica with nothing on yours. Pig flu has already infected a good many people around the world. I guess he's tells us the pigs atop the birds and the big result in the battle in the farmyard. They're bragging rights for team. Pull this station on. The most important thing to do is not to mention the nine thousand nine hundred influence or epidemic. That killed two tons of money people as the first World War and affect around half of the world's population. Because it was just go on most of those people would have been dead by now anyway. So let's brought over it as if it never happened. Well also if you're going to attach your country to the flu and the YOU'VE GOTTA go Spanish maximizing body near after the Spanish. Do not mess around. Hoping does rice. John is a question is what is the point of viruses. Yup I just don't seem to have anything positive to contribute to me. Artists don't see why they don't just go for themselves that just little invisible terrorists to me and not changing more Wesley's to do anything about it. Like cannot be seen to negotiate with viruses so they should not treat anyone. We have to stand up for ourselves as Muhammad Ali modest set. If he'd been fighting for a well title you flew. He had a way with words as well. Eleven years ago. Now when things like normality and sport still existed sport did he say yes. It's quick question three now. What's unusual double sporting feet links? The following four Sportsman Rugby League legend and Human Bulldozer. Lesley Vainikolo New Zealand crooked Martin Donnelly score a double century at Lord's in a test match in nineteen forty nine. No less another rugby player. Halloween's premiership winning. Hyun from Granite Immovable Leviathan Flanker Maury Fa'asavalu and the Welsh Rugby Union scrum-half on Second World War Hero Morris Turnbull what links those for Spoils Plaza I. They all had both sibling. And a spouse who also played international sport be each of them made his international debut and his final international appearance on his birthday. See All played for England at one sport but against England in another sport de all's at a national record during a match only to see teammate surpass it before the end of that match Oh e all of them both discovered a new chemical element and had an affair with a member of the royal family and or a KGB agent. Never touch pure volume with your bare hands. It is lethally radioactive. And why did modern? Donnelly never play international cricket. Again after nine hundred and forty-nine perhaps augur or even Princess Margaret could explain moving on. Now we're going back in time once more but just a week back in time. This time to the live Bugle livestream live with Alice. And Kumar and here are some more choice mates from that Carol has been a notable success story in in many ways and particularly in this this This crisis some things in large part. It's Health Minister K J shy larger. Who is a former science teacher? And she's been role more successful than other people who've been trying to control avars So it sounds having a former science teacher involved is better than having a Often sacked for dishonesty former journalist or former cereal bankrupt. Tv Mega toolan proud sexual assault fan. There must be something in that. There's a small sample size. We can't drool conclusion but it tells me more about the The Carolina has been so much more successful than Britain for example the Mullaly family. What's up groups have been in permanent meltdown? This week is absolutely astonishing. Stuff I've got to be real with you. It has been a spicy couple of years for sub with mind background. Because obviously I'm a British man so I spent the last few years watching by country do the geopolitical equivalent of shitting. It's pans and they're not cleaning itself up the instead. Doing some very vigorous squat thrusts and my family is from India. And that's a country that is currently run by government who claimed to be incredibly Hindu and yet when it comes to the nation's Muslim population they seem to have no problem in having series breath however my family. Add it comes from. The State of Carolina says small state in the south of the country although small needs to be in context of a country with a billion people because character is a small state and house. Thirty five million people in it okay. So but it started an amazing job of handling this boy and partly. That's because a few years ago the state was exposed to the Nipah virus which was a a really virulent pandemic that and so the infrastructure that was put in place then has actually served them pretty well but a lot of it as you say is coming down to the health minister. Kk Shyla Because she acted very proactively in January when the first cases were coming through the news from China Jackson Berry very decisively a put in place policies track and trace and four months later at Carol only has fit five hundred twenty four cases of Covid Nineteen with four debts and SOFA. No community transmission so just to put that in context. I is a state of thirty five million people. Gdp per capita of two thousand. Two hundred if you compare that to the UK it is. I believe this is a scientific term. A lot better. I think that yeah. I think I'm pronouncing pornography of those victories right and they control room. They instructed the medical in the fourteen districts to do the same and by the time the first case of Roy they had such sophisticated track and trace measures in place the case that arrived fire flight from Wuhan they. They already knew that it was arriving. Essentially so it's absolutely astonishing stuff and should cake Charlotte sixty three year old health minister and has attracted a lot of new nicknames in recent weeks including the corona virus slayer which is a buffy review. I think we're all looking for my favorite one rockstar. Health Minister and I cannot tell the extent to which most care shit of all time prides itself on having extremely high literacy rate is obsessed with science. I very much the black sheep not just of my family but my family's entire home state smack buying in the middle of careless personal brand that the closest thing we could produce to a rock star is an incredibly smart and successful health minister so from reading between the lines. You're saying that's Advanced preparation cool-headed decision. Making and you take the advice to Test Track and trace Mister is slightly better than ignoring official recommendations and not acting on report. Saying you've got your unprepared for this kind of crisis. Yeah it's it's it's actually a lot better than Shaking hands the bare minimum. If people who have rotavirus let's remember. The handshake was the minimum almost like anything else. I'm just remind to give Boris Johnson's track record and his number but he definitely shook hands and also it's better than pursuing a policy of touching horses at Cheltenham believed into hoping to another light. People lifetime live in June and also a bugle live quiz best. Keep them separate. I found an on the subjects of quizzes as question. Four on its own. Cricket universally acknowledged as the greatest thing in the universe. Mike quick question for you. Buglers engine cricketer Sunil vowel on did what but without also doing what so. He did a thing without doing another thing. That's usually associated with doing that thing. So did he play every single match for an entire season for Delhi in the Indian Ranji trophy competition without ever once batting or bowling. And if you're not follower of cricket just take a guess while those all is it be. He's the only player to have scored a first class century without hitting a single boundary. Ninety three singles. Tutus and a three see. He won the World Cup but never played international cricket in his entire career day he was out of a match in an international game in which he was actually playing. He came on as a substitute fielder took three catches to them. One handed Dr. It had run out with a throw from the boundary for the final hour rails for many of you. These just sounds Or E E captain India without existing on India's first tour of England in the nineteen thirties those disputes between the different cricketing authorities from the different states and cities of India. Who could agree on who should be a leader of the team? So compromise was reached whereby a fictional batsman was invented to be the official captain so always at A. B. C. D. or e. And in fact we're going straight onto our final question question five baseball for our American listeners. Now inundate an alibi. School founded in two thousand and three Chicago Cubs Fan. Steve Bartman leant over from his seat to try to catch what he thought. Sorry from triggering. Some of you hear what he thought was going to be a foul ball hit by Florida. Marlins Luis Castio but succeeded only into flynn from the grasp of cubs field emotions. Alu- the game turned the cubs. Who'd been on the brink of making the world series for the first time since nineteen forty-five lost then lost the deciding game seven and the chance of glory and Bartmans? Bolt being sport was horrifically scapegoated. That's why we love but what became with a fight full bowl that bomb and tried to catch a it was costing in bronze casing and presented as a memento to mollins coach. Jack mckeon off days team went onto win the world series be. It was blown up in a ceremonial explosion. The remnants might into PASTA SOULS SEE. It was fed to a Rhinoceros Chicago Zoo cubs fans paid one hundred dollars a ticket to watch the curse bull guzzled down by their local dumb od. It was taken into spice by Chicago Ball. Nasa astronaut John Grunsfeld. Who then threw it away into orbit on a space walk to suckle the world in internal shy time for you to finalize your responses to the quiz. I'll give you the correct answers in just a few minutes time off the some lies about our premium level voluntary subscribers to join him gouging. The bugle podcasts. Dot Com and click the donate by stem recently woke up with a new theory in his head about the planet Saturn. He thinks that the reason it has its trademark. Rings is not as many have assumed because it is an alien. Ufo biding his time before moving down to Earth to destroy no as many of also assumed rennick approved Brennan Sunhat. The satin used to wear as a planet in the early days of solar system was much closer to the sun but in fact because the ancient Roman God Saturn Walter known swimmer who needed rings to keep him. Afloat marks excitement abated when he remedy Neptune named after the Roman? The see also has rings surrounding. Shaw is another planetary mythology and he thinks Jupiter got his famous red spot from where it was published by. Its furious wife planet. Juno out of the latest in a string of infidelities with Jupiter's moons prompting Juno to lash out big Joe and then leave the solar system for good. Juno is last heard of circling a star in a nearby other galaxy with other planetary dati's who have also escaped controlling relationships. Santana hero has been studying. The bronte sisters and dining halls San has not only confirmed the literary siblings. Full surname was in fact breath. Gumri a not as some had suspected you but also that they were responsible for the name of the renowned dinosaur the Brontosaurus due to the structure of their novels which tended to start quite small scale than expand to a massive oversize middle and nine taper off gradually to a minimalist ending. Ricardo Villain is fascinated by the British government's so-called Cobra meetings crucial discussions of important matters that some prime ministers can be turned to if they're in the right mode a not too busy wondering how many children they've Gotten Cobra is according to official accounts an acronym ICAL of Cabinet Office Briefing Room. A but record. I was convinced that it is inferred so called because at one meeting the conservative pair and London two thousand twelve official Nebuchadnezzar Co formerly known as Olympic. Fifteen hundred meter champion Sebastian. Coe Jokingly wore a bra over his pinstripe suit and quips that he hoped it would help him keep abreast of the situation and finally Chris. Bostitch spent eight years learning to play keyboards with just one thing in mind so that he could go to his local garden centre with Harpsichord station. It next to some bright pink flowers and start playing a selection of early eighteenth century prelude and Fuchs until someone came up to him and said what on Earth. Are you doing and he reply back to the future? It was worth reminisces Chris. The manager of the gardens law so hard. He gave everyone in the shop. Free trial ended. This week's lies just time before we go for the answers to our sports quiz question. One which of the following has never been an event. At the Summer Olympics correct answer was D- military patrol a military patrol has however been an event at the Winter Olympics similar to biathlon involving cross country skiing and shooting wearing backpacks and our think hunting down a rogue enemy unit Imagine if Liam Neeson was turned into a sport. Ice Hockey was in fact event at the Nineteen Twenty Summer Olympics in Antwerp. The World Tilles no coming to sentence after of the First World War Horse. Long jump nine thousand nine hundred and Paris bring not back. Whacking people with sticks in a single was part of the fencing program in the ninety four games. Instant Louis Sculpture will art contest. Were part of many of the early modern Olympic Games. In Fact Paul. Gauguin son picked up a bronze in sculpture in nineteen twenty four fact. That is a fact log. I'm very getting is lockdown. As might be actually shows a genuine genuine facts on bought make sculpture sport again Cricket England Writing Champions from one thousand nine hundred Olympics in Paris and pigeon shooting also nineteen hundred water games. That must have been question to what happened to the last time. In an Ireland England Sur five nations game on the ninety seven hundred sixty three. The answer was a a Nel draw. Question three will unusual double feet links. Leslie Vinik Martin Donnelly Maury Fossa in Morris Tumblr. It was see they played four England in one sport and against England in another If you want the full details try the Internet Question for Indian CRICKETER. Sunil thousand did what without doing what that was see? He won the World Cup but never played international sport. He was picked as a member of India's squad in nineteen ninety-three for the Cricket World Cup and never played for neo. Four wasn't picked during the tournament. I was never selected again. Bit Harsh on the part of the Indian selectors and finally question five what happened to the Bodman Bowl from two thousand and three Wallace Cubs Fans. Pulido needs to be reminded it was blown up and made into pasta sauce. Not Maybe continue tons sports in into food. This is an exciting new dimension for all humanity. This good might lockdown a hell of a lot more entertaining. I'm going to cook some spoilt Rights if you've got all five writes in the style prize. Which is the right to tune in to next week's issue of the Bugle? In fact all you can have a on me. Don't forget to subscribe to the Lost Post and keep your ear to the ground or indeed to this podcast for details on the next life you'll livestream show on the bugle live close. Hopefully we will do in June until next week goodbye.
Cosmic Queries Hubble Space Telescope
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Just like you to turn great ideas into something real. So maybe you should head to squarespace dot com slash stop for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch us the offer Code Star Talk to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that squarespace dot com slash star. Talk Offer Code Star Talk. Welcome to star. Talk your place in the Universe. Where Science and pop culture collide? Dr Talk Begins Right now. This is star talk. I'm your host. Neil degrasse Tyson your personal astrophysicists and I got with me check nights. Yuck Yuck in the house he'll Brisa cosmic queries edition absolutely. And we're celebrating thirty years of the Hubble Space Telescope how thirty was launched in Nineteen Ninety April. Look at that. Yeah and we're talking across someone right here. I know Edwin would leave so so we have Jennifer Jennifer welcome. Thank you first time visiting. It's wonderful we go way back but your first time. So it's long overdue. And I I get your pedigree here. Senior project scientist for the Hubble Space Telescope at the Nasser Goddard Was the full guards because we have. We have got here. We have absolutely steady. Yeah we have a Goddard Institute for space guys got her got around it so you got around so the Goddard space flight center in Greenbelt Maryland right outside of Washington. Dc and you're primarily sponsor for Making sure is as scientifically productive as possible. Wow and sure enough. That's what it has been. We're GONNA get into that. Yeah there's an and your professionally. Which would you say is your your cosmic especially interested in how stars continue to form in interstellar clouds so pictures from hobble with stuff with the clouds. That's her well personally. Not Exactly. This is called inflation. You know there are people all over the world studying different aspects of how stars and Planetary Systems around them presumably are continuing to form But it's in the right place to be fed APPS. We're just We're we're blessed to be fed with all this new information from the Hubble Space Telescope and also telescopes all kinds of other telescopes in space and on the ground. We use them all together in complementary. Fashion Layer the information to put it together and get a a career. I see it a better picture. Exactly I think of it like a Symphony Orchestra that conductors pulling out some parts of the music from the trumpets and some from the percussion and some from the violins and so forth. But all together it gives you the full piece of music. So astronomers use some information from the Hubble Space Telescope some from other space telescopes some from telescopes on the ground. They all have some different niece. You know they they get some different colors or parts of the wavelengths spectrum or a different types of fields of view and precision and we use all that together to answer the questions we have about galaxies or stars or planets or whatever. We're interested in so tell me you don't just happen to be at the Goddard Space Flight Center. That's where Hubbell's controlled. The Hubble Space Telescope Control Room is yes at the NASA Goddard Spaceflight Center. Then what's that Hubbell building on the campus of Johns Hopkins at Johns Hopkins? We have the Space Telescope Science Institute. Which is a wonderful place with hundreds of scientists and other specialists who work with us at Goddard to help us manage the daily science operations of Hubble to help with the selections of which proposals that are sent in from around the world. Actually get the time on the Hubble telescope and people think much about that took the data just show up right but somebody had to do an American idol version though. I need hub. The next big show coming the Fox. I need help. Show me your proposal right right. That's that's a really good analogy but it's not done quite the way it's done in terms of the TV shows what's done is that scientists around the world will write a written proposal for why they want to use the Hubble Space Telescope. Why are the observations? They WANNA do so important to advance science. And why do they need the Hubble Space Telescope to do that? Okay fine for time on rights. You don't you don't WanNa waste I think this is true for the allocation committee. They're not going to give you time for a proposal that you could do on a ground based telescope because the base may Celsius so expensive and so precious every moment of observing time so you have to make the case. Why is it important that we use this precious time with the Hubble telescope to observe this particular galaxy or this particular EXO planetary system? And why do we need? The Hubble telescope or the particular instruments on Hubble to do that and that goes through a pretty stringent peer review process. We have specialists come in and review all the proposals and rank them and and the end basically one in four one in five get Time on the Hubble Space Telescope American idol is one in five A little a little less than that. So you better. If applying for winning America probably are probably not although I should add that. We're pretty good about storing this data so once the observations are done with Hubble the the data are put in an archive that's easily accessible and so scientists around the world often go into that archive pull out data. That's already there but they can use it for something else and in fact about half of the results. The peer reviewed published science discoveries in results coming from Hubble now are based on data that scientists have taken out of that archives. So if you if you use the telescope then everything that you glean from using it is now open source. So it's been on that I think is it better. No no no. Because it's I had my own motives rights for observing that part of the sky right but may be you have another thing. You could extract from the day that I haven't thought of yet right. That's exactly right proprietary. Well there is for some types of observation. Now that's all I care about. Who gets who gets proprietor. There's some types of proposals where the proposing team you Mike. This is Michael now. Nobody owns anything in the universe. Personally but We're going some of that. Some of the proposals. The proposing team gets a few months of time to do what they actually propose to do it. Well because we want them to have the time to do it. Well and then the data gets put in this archive and then is open to everyone and so and there are other types of observations that are Generally done like big surveys and things that the. Let's say the director of the Space Telescope Science Institute. Desai's would be a good general purpose use of Hubble and that data immediately goes into public Purview so so it can be immediately used by scientists around the world but anybody in the public can reach the archive. We also have an image gallery that I think is probably of more interest to most general people in the in the science interested public and that You can find it Our websites NASA dot gov slash Hubble bubble site dot org but these have the images that the things that you really think about when you think of Hubble's galaxies or desktop screensavers interesting. That's where you go. And that's just all free to anyone around the world to use and enjoy and and that's something. I'm very proud of about the Hubble mission is that we've made all of this data and all of these images free for anyone around the world firing every. Thank you before we get to the questions. I got one more one more inquiry here. So is it still true that the director can just say? Here's a good idea. Everyone will benefit. Let's just do this. It's not going through the telescope allocation committee. Okay so it's a director's discretionary time. Does that still exist? It does so that the director of the Space Telescope Science Institute. Who currently has? Dr Kenneth Sim. Bok can has a certain allocation of of time with Hubble each year that They can use for what they think is the most some scientific purpose that might not come through sort of the general competitive process with with scientists around the world. And usually this time is done is used for. Let's say a kind of big survey or a general purpose observation that will be of use to people for many years to come Could could it be used for something? That's a little quirky little Albert Bell Quirky. You would have to have a great deal of trust in that director when that alias. All right well let me assure you that we take great care in choosing the directors space telescopes excellent one. I'm going to a couple of these that I think are particularly noteworthy political appointees took the the current Institute Space Telescope Science Institute director. Dr Ken Simba has very wisely allocated director's discretionary time to do a lot of observations in the ultraviolet part of the spectrum looking at stars and star forming regions that that radiate light in this high energy frequency range. Well why is that well? That's because Hubble is really the only general purpose telescope right now that can see in the ultraviolet and you have to be above the earth's atmosphere to see in the ultraviolet because of the filtering effects of the atmosphere for less resort laforge. Well exact but this is. This is important to get this data and get it in the archive all we can and then we can use it for many years to come. There's another director's discretionary project that I think is really noteworthy. This came from years ago. Previous director Dr Bob Williams used his director's discretionary time to just point off in a direction of space. Where there weren't very many nearby stars to drown out the image and just collected light. For many crazy Celeste. Pretty dark over there. Look there off. Some people did push back on this and said this is a very valuable time on this telescope. There it's a lot of competition. Why would you quote Unquote Waste Your Director's discretionary? Time this way because director there you go but basically it was You know let's look and see. We think there are probably some faint galaxies that will pick up by just integrating light receiving light for four days at it but we weren't sure after several days of doing this the result was this image that's now iconic contains thousands of little smudges of light. They are all galaxies. It's called the Hubble deep field and we've done some subsequent ones call like the ultra deep one of the most famous images. It certainly my favorite. Yeah and but it really showed US visually what we may have suspected already just from the the physics and the in the cosmological theories but that our universe is filled with galaxies and they come in many different shapes and sizes. And of course the intriguing thing about getting these fields is that you're seeing all these galaxies in one picture but of course the ones that are actually farther away. You're seeing them as they were farther back in time. So if you can somehow tease out which of those galaxies are closer to us and which of them and that imager farther away and compare their their differences are they different in their morphology. Are they different in composition? Sometimes you need other telescopes to get that information. Why does this look like zero? You can see how galaxies have changed over time? So it's it's a true time machine that you can now see. Visually in Hubble really set the foundation for this kind of pictorial study of galaxy evolution. And and. I think it's just a wonderful accomplishment that but that was based on a a very wise But brave use of Director's discretionary. Time with the Hubbard with naysayers all along and also wants the Hubble sort of pitches tent right there right other telescopes can say I can now get different kinds of information from the same the same point out just probably one of the most observed spots on the Sky Right. We have other positions on the sky. Also that have been observed in these kind of deep field ways using different kinds of telescopes Sandra x Ray Observatory or sales-fever telescopes on the ground in all of these telescopes have different capabilities. And so they compliment. Hubble and are giving us a tremendous understanding of how the universe has changed over time. That's really cool. All right very very proud of how much time we have in the second time for a couple Stewart a members I yes. We do a Patriot member for haying fans get their questions. I support US ON PATRIOTIC. And quite frankly were easily but you brought to you by Chuck. Nice Star Talk Radio Anyway This is Sherry Lynn. S K She says Dr Tyson Doctor. Weisman and Hey Chuck is not what she said. Yes he goes. What are two or three discoveries that lay persons like myself can reference when talking to others about the band tastic contributions Hubble has given us right? Now all I can say is it took some really pretty pictures of some stuff and I need better ammo for those of us not literate in astrophysics three lovely questions science care with that. Well I'M NOT GONNA rank rank order because there's a lot of between but no one else has to know but I would say there are some profound Discoveries in in different realms of astrophysics that Hubble has really made a groundbreaking if you will or space breaking if you will a contribution I like James Duh. He's breaking I think the one of the first things. Hubble did was to confirm that there are in fact supermassive black holes in the cores of galaxies. There were it was theorized that that was the case perhaps but one of the first observations Hubble did was to Look at the core of another galaxy M Eighty-seven for example is is one of these other galaxies. That we knew was kind of active. We could see that there was like a high speed jet coming out of the core but we weren't sure what was causing these these types of things. Hubble looked at another external galaxy and saw that the gas moving around the core of that galaxy was moving very fast and so when you have something orbiting very fast but you don't know what it's orbiting you can pretty easily calculate what the mass of that material is based on the distance from the core that the material is moving in its velocity and the only thing that could be that massive in such a small volume had to be a supermassive black hole so hubbell then became what we call our supermassive black hole finder because with subsequent instruments on Hubble we actually looked at the cores of lots of other galaxies and confirmed over and over again that supermassive black holes are often if not always perhaps in the cores of galaxies. What what what went on an implied but not stated there isn't you needed Hubble to do that because Hubble has very high resolution telescopes as just a smudge and. You can't find something so close to the Chinese center exactly. Yeah that's that's a point that needs to be made. The reason humble is there at all is because we put it above the atmosphere. The atmosphere has a blurring effect on light coming through and even filters out some types of light. So Hubble being above the atmosphere gives us very high resolution observations exactly and that's why We were able to use Hubble to just to discern this gas right around the cores of other galaxies on on one side. It seemed to be moving away from us very fast. That would be the. The red shifted a gas and on the other side of the center of this. All those galaxies. We'd see stuff that appeared to be moving toward us very fast. Blue Shifted Light. And so you can tell that the material is orbiting very fast and from that calculate that the only thing that would create orbits. That fast would be a lot of mass convinced an very small volume and the only thing that answers that question massive black hole. So let me ask you when you as you talk about. This process media comes to my mind is the process. How long does something like this? Or is it that you are doing mathematical interpretation or making extrapolations from a period of time that you're looking out the the Information that your resources what take just the whole yet. Discovery Discovery and observations deal proposal to promise paper right. How long does that take? Well I have to say it all depends so so an observation depending on what you're doing like I mentioned that deep field took several days of observations others. If it's something bright if it's just one pointing you can do it. Maybe in an hour or two. Oh but then you need to go through some processing time for the data comes down but it needs some data processing You know in that case usually we can get images out if they're just simple snapshots within a few days. Wow but if you're doing scientific analysis like you're you're doing a proposal to answer. Some questions that requires quite a lot of analysis may be comparisons with data from other telescopes. These kinds of things that can take months or a year Sometimes even years so it just depends on the complexity of the question. That's being asked. And that's be in the data how the data are being used and then you submit. The paper gets peer reviewed. Okay all right then. Maybe they want adjustments to it lands. You didn't dot your eye or crush. Not then you do that. Satisfy the the the reviewer then it gets accepted for publication then it gets scheduled right and so that that adds a chunk of time. It's the end there as well but see now. Have we got to wrap it up right? I know but now I got another question which is and we'll come on. I got adults. Dan has got a real quick real quick. I gotta ask so with that being said considering the process has anyone looked for something right and then peer review finds no no no but then something even better was found from the information. Well sure I found found from the press. I don't I can't call mistake. What do you call have time to answer your question? Okay all right. We'll come back all right. I'll give you remember after Britain Star. Talk. 'cause Macquarie's Hubbell's thirtieth anniversary died today a broken back. Macquarie's thirtieth anniversary edition. We last left off with chuck in the middle of question. What happens if whatever issues of first proposed research paper confronts right they they they discover something even better right about the peer review. Says Oh no. That's not the case. And then they find something like wow viewers or they're both either why anybody goes what they missed. They missed something and then they go. Oh my goodness I just want to know if that ever happened. Like I'm I have a thing for that. Gillette like radio character me like die cut design and goes wait. I can say well who do like I love that. Okay Okay let me try part of that so again. The these observations typically go through to peer reviews. One is to get the time to use Hubbell in the first place. So so that means that the they generally had a pretty good idea of why these observations would be useful. And then there's the second one the after they've done the analysis of the data and they submit their analysis to the the professional journal of what they think they found and true enough. The journals can actually say You know we don't actually think this is this is right or profound and maybe choose not to publish it or but usually they do. What's interesting now? But what's interesting? Is that that data that may have been used for the initial proposers purposes is now available for other researchers to us and as we discussed about the archaic they can pull that data and find something that the original proposal didn't even think of this data and that has happened quite a lot. Let me tell you why because the whole research and the reason is because Hubble has been around so long thirty years now often taking sometimes repeated observations of the same areas in the sky for different purposes We can now look back and see things that have changed over time which is very interesting. In particular in our solar system looking back at images of let's say Jupiter overtime year after year after year. And then starting to compare these images and saying well as we look back at this data that maybe even taken for different purposes in earlier years but we can see trends. Let's say that big a great red spot on Jupiter. It's a big storm but as we look over. The decades officials know Jupiter's red spot. Okay come right so you know you can stay with the lingo under the fans. We're trying to make it clear. The great is is there but it is red tape Eh. It is shrinking as we look at this damages year after year after year. It's like well. This storm is changing. It's changing in color. It's getting smaller. We see new storms. Cropping up So this is one of the benefits of having a telescope operating so long and being able to look back in that archive at data. That may have been taken for some other purpose but then stringing it all together and we see how things have changed are changing over time. Did you find the monolith in the red spot next rescue? Uh undetectable. Okay Ashley now. I'm seeing a conspiracy. All Right Robert. Weaver from Patriot wants to know this. What does the most interesting Explained thing we have observed with Hubble. Is there something that astrophysicist are still trying to work out love at Hubble who Robert Weaver Robert Weaver Waco Robert? You're you have impressed. The rooms Robert. That's a terrific question and A couple of things come to mind. Hubble is observing a lot of effects of what we call dark matter and so we can't really see dark matter and we don't know what it is it's a mystery but Hubble can see where it is because it's distributed pretty heavily In these clusters of galaxies. We can see the galaxies. But we know there's a lot more stuff in there because Hubble sees was called lenzing of light coming from behind those clusters of galaxies. That's traveling through that cluster. And it gets distorted it gets magnified and stretched out and sew background galaxies. Look Kinda strange when they come through these regions and we can because of that. We can map out where the dark matter is. But it's still a mystery as to what actually is and even more mysterious is something we call dark energy because this is a surprise we were looking at. We've been for all all Hubbell's mission we've been measuring very carefully the expansion rate of the universe. That was one of the original goals of hobble but just a few years ago original reasons why it was named Hubble well exactly so discovered the expanding universe exactly. If this telescope was GONNA go all in on that you might smoke. Name it after the guy who put it on? So Hubble was one of the first goals of Hubble was to measure better the rate of the expansion of the universe. We expected that as we were became better able to look at more distant galaxies which is looking back at time and measuring the expansion rate at that time and comparing it to the expansion rate in the current epoch that we would see that the expansion rate of the universe has been slowing down. That was the expectation because gravity. Basically trying to pull things together and PR perhaps slowdown this expansion. The surprise in recent years was that by comparing Hubble observations with also told observations from good telescopes on the ground and looking at the difference between the expansion rate in the distant universe meaning far in the past with the expansion rate in our current epoch. That the universe expansion rate has has actually in recent epochs meaning in recent billions of years. been getting faster. It's accelerating it for it was first decelerating and now it's accelerating We don't know what's causing that. Hubbell's a big player in this in this discovery. It's not the only player but it's a big player. And so now this is a whole new enterprise in astrophysics is trying to understand. What is it that could be accelerating? The expansion of universe will get better with age. That's all all right. Tackle a billion years. You look looking better. That's right that's right. Look at that all right. Cool man all right. So let's go to Cameron Kessler from facebook says does Hubbell have any sufficient technology to keep up with the needs of today's understanding of the universe? And Will there ever be telescope with a three hundred sixty panoramic view like Google Street maps? It's pretty cool. That's that's the measure through cosmic discovery. Discovery is will we have a google cosmos maps Google Street maps and I know the Mars Rovers? Do This pitchers But would it make more sense to have this sort of thing instead of falling back on the now this is good Donald Shade? Here the excuse. We have to look in the right places as they used to say in Seti. I'm trying to understand the question. Is it in other words. If let's look everywhere instead of in places we think we want to find something exactly because we might discover something looking for otherwise basically saying like Google maps like. I really want to go to three fifty nine mainstream. But what's that over there? Oh my God that coffee shop. Let's good all right. So this is a very good question and we need both because we want to be able to see everything in the sky and we have survey telescopes that are designed to do just that to have big fields of view and to survey the entire sky often for a particular reason so right now for example we have the tests satellite that serving the sky but looking specifically for stars that may have planetary systems around them in our nearby neighborhoods of a follow on to Kepler. I think so. Yeah through that The transiting exoplanet survey satellite. I think I I'm going to have to remove myself but but anyway the the idea of tests is to do just that survey survey of I think there's a there's a telescope Being designed for the ground. The large synoptic survey telescope. The whole idea of this is to do. The whole sky survey very frequently. So it's a good idea. However when you're doing that you're not getting the precision on small fields of you that you can get with telescopes like Hubble so it depends on your the purposes at large if you really want a high angular resolution precision high sensitivity observations of something That's a different goal than doing a whole sky survey and we sort of need. Both of this is the best way this works is if you're doing whole sky surveys and then if you find something that you'd really like more detail about then. You hone in with some other telescope do that. Hubble is really not good for these whole sky services It's much better for pointing and getting much higher angular closer. My my favorite example. This is the Orion Nebula I love. The Orion region of the sky is a very famous constellation I did my own doctoral. Research on on star formation in this region of the sky the closest star forming region to us. It's the closest region of massive star formation stars bigger than our sun but they lied at these massive stars when once they form their so powerful they ionized the surrounding gas. You get these beautiful Nebula so the Orion nebulous famous. Hubble can peer into that. Oh you know maybe varied energy of the Orion Nebula wasn't told me what he knew. How would you know hold? I was born in Arkansas. Listen this current climate. Let's go with the Arkansas. So anyway I. I love the Hubble image of the Orion Nebula because it does give you that great detail you can see massive stars. You can see the colors. But you don't get the big field of view that you can get with other telescopes Gotcha Gotcha next all right here. We go This is hold wig at thunder storm on twitter. And he says or she says Or they say if I want to be correct. What person says this is possible to get through this check? I know once I start thinking about it. I'm like well that can't be right. Okay here we got. What are the projects that you think will be the most important for this current decades? So we're in the twenties. Now what's going to happen between twenty and thirty that is the speed worked Hubble? We'd be able to contribute in this decade or they just say what are the projects of course talking about telescopes but they say what are the projects? Well that's a terrific question and hobble is poised to be a major player in these astrophysics discoveries in the coming decade. So one of them I've already mentioned is kind of getting a better grip on this idea that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. How's that why is that? And how is that working? So exactly and so. Telescopes like Hubble will be working In concert with other observatories the wide field infrared space telescope or D. W. I is a telescope idea. That's being developed in Right now that will be a large again. One of these big fields of you. That can kind of give us a better sense of how galaxies are distributed and how they've been come distributed over time and that's related to dark matter and dark energy for Miami. Listen W I retooled decommissioned military telescope right. We took a telescope. That had another purpose. And now we're re re envisioning it To do this kind of study big big surveys of in the infrared help reduce the cost ultimately. It was the idea. No retooling things has. Its own complicate. It is going to be a terrific telescope I by the name of the game I think for the coming decade is Is Complementary Cooperative Work? Let me tell you? One of my favorites is that hobble is being used in compliment with probes that we're sending out to other planets planets in our solar system and we get much more information this way then we would buy just Hubble alone or just the probe alone for example the Juno Prob- that's editor right now is getting all kinds of information about Jupiter's magnetic field and gravitational field and hobble was back here orbiting the earth looking at Jupiter and Hubble has the unique ability to see ultraviolet light coming from the Auroras the the magnetic poles of Jupiter and those are dancing around relevant to what's happening with the magnetic fields around Jupiter Juno is measuring in situ there so this cooperative work gives us a lot better understanding of these magnetic fields and what what's happening on Jupiter and and even his moons than we could. It's not it's not an after the fact conjoining of Dana in situ beautiful. I love him to cry for doing things cooperatively with Hubble Another example in just the recent past was when the new horizons probe Went Past Pluto goes unmentioned here. We don't oh well. Pluto is still there and he's doing fact just because you're not taking poodles called I'll make an exception. Does beautiful and Homo was used as new horizons on his way out there. Hubbell was used to find other undiscovered moons around Pluto and to help New Horizons Helpless Chartered. A good course for new horizons and even to help new horizons to know what objects to look at beyond Pluto. So these are things that I think are. Examples of how Hubble and other telescopes are going to be used cooperative cooperatively in the coming years to give us a lot more information than we could from any observatory alone wasn't also emission. I have a memory. We're there was a probe to an asteroid where it dropped a projectile which were then kick up asteroid dust and then collect with no with in a direction and an Azimuths at an angle so that was Hubble that would then be able to see through the dust and get a spectrum. That was the idea. Yes so it was. It kicked up dust. It was observed by quite a few telescopes telescope. I would have to You know to look into the details of what was found but I thought that was a really nifty idea. It was another example of a okay. I'll do this. Yeah cosmic collaborators. Yeah Brilliant idea to rob a projectile kick up the dust and then look through what through it with ground based telescopes or or so. Yeah Yeah I got a smart. Thank you good. I the case. No one's told you. Wow really smart man NASA people who do so we're GONNA wind. Could I add one thing? I Miss Check if I did not bring a huge topic of interest for the coming decade. Which is the whole topic of exit plan and saw and this is where telescopes. We'll be working very co-operatively We didn't even know back when I was in graduate school. If there were planets orbiting other stars stars other than our sun now because of telescopes on the ground and telescopes Kepler in space we know of thousands of star systems that have planets and so now we can presume that most stars have at least one planet. Hubble will be being used in the coming decade to do more analysis of the atmospheres of these exoplanets. Complementing work from a telescopes like test. That's looking around for nearby. Systems have planets and mine. Then there's the hand to Hobble to analyze this. Yes also the James Webb Space Telescope that will be launched in twenty twenty one will be looking at exit planetary systems in the infrared part of the spectrum and that will complement. Hubble's observations of these extra planetary systems. Hubble can see a little in the infrared but mostly in visible and ultraviolet light and. So we'll be getting this wonderful suite of information by using Hubble and complement with other telescopes about the nature of EXO planets. Excellent just think about I. You GotTa know that it exists. Then you have that catalog and now you go in with a whole other layer of questions right and then that might open other questions. You didn't even know to ask at the previous round so let me take this. Now you're saying well I wouldn't want to the atmosphere of the planet. You're not happy just knowing. There's a planet rare day when that was a banner headline there's a planet right right. So what a luxury to even have that ability to make that measurement gotta take a break when we come back. We'll finish out our thirtieth anniversary costs. Macquarie's on hey guys. It's time for Patriots. Shout out to the following Patriots Patrons Alejandra Salinas and Adam Cook. Thank you so much without you. We couldn't make this trek across the cosmos. And for those of you listening. Who would like your own Patriot? Shout out go to Patriot DOT COM SLASH STAR. Talk Radio and support us back. Jennifer Wiseman from the Goddard Base Flight Center in Greenbelt Maryland Greenbelt Maryland right outside of DC. I've been. There is a huge campus. I mean it's it's and it's like it's got engineers and scientists working in harmony. Nice select as as sharks linked to look at that toys crazy. I just saw story on Broadway revival. Yeah so Chuck. More yes here. We go This is from Lewis. I'm sorry. The force choked podcasts. Okay I don't know what that is but from instagram. Hey Neil and Jennifer. What is the plan for? Hubble as its final photo and win will that be was the life span of Hubble? How long how long can this go on? Well that's a great question you know. Hubble was was launched back in one thousand nine hundred ninety from the space shuttle and it was designed to be continually replenished with the space shuttle missions which we did for for a lot longer than we originally expected so we're not servicing it anymore because the space shuttle program is is over. We're now building a new future spacecrafts force. Yeah so we've got what we've got with humble but Hubbell's working very well the last astronaut servicing mission. We did back in two thousand and nine was very successful and they've left the telescope. The astronauts went up and put in some new science instruments and repaired some other instruments and some in some other equipment on the telescope. It's a satellite orbiting. The Earth and Hubbell is doing very well right now today graffiti on it because they're the last ones there susie was here if they did. They didn't tell me but up question. Disturbs really no question. And if they did they tell me where I will give them some central look. I want you to know out there that I did not have that. Look in all I have to wait. I will tell you that. One of the astronauts John Grunsfeld who is an astronomer himself brought with him a friend of Star Talk. He's been on several he brought with him. A model of Galileo's telescope and so up there on the space shuttle during the last servicing mission. We had this marvelous juxtaposition of this model of Galileo's telescope from four hundred years ago souls go out the window of the cockpit of the shuttle you could see the Hubble Space Telescope and so it was just a wonderful visual of how the progress of engineering and curiosity and optics all work together to give us a running understanding curious as all get out of. Nobody's pave dear. Just go back to the KS ARRAYED IDEAS. But you have to have the ideas to get people to donate the money together. I didn't quite into your question. So Hubble is Is working very well and so we don't really have an end date of Hublin mind. The kind of stated NASA position now as long as Hubble is being scientifically productive we'll keep operating it and it looks like just from looking at the health of the gyroscopes and the batteries and the science instruments that will be able to get good science from Hubble for probably through the end of this decade. And maybe even be on and and that's great because we want it to be operating while other. Telescopes are also operating with complementary capabilities. The James Webb Space Telescope Should launch in twenty twenty one and it will be a fabulous space telescope tuned into infrared wavelengths of light and so in the infrared you can appear at galaxies that are coming. They're very distant in space and time. Their light is getting red shifted as it travels through expanding space to get two and Hubbell can't see that far into the infrared spectrum of light so sub conceived very distant galaxies but the web will see galaxies even a little bit farther back in space and time. We're gonNA precise something you just said because I it's remarkable to me. Yeah all right. So we are seeing infrared light from galaxies in the early universe. Who in the early universe were emitting visible right okay? Violent and that all red shifted over to the infrared part that the change would telescope is tuned to see is right so we're folding in that knowledge of the universe right to nab those galaxies right when they're being born right. I I like to put it this way. The universe we think at least the universe that that we know and love started about thirteen point. Eight billion years ago and Hubble is seeing all the way back right now to baby galaxies from within that first point eight of the thirteen point eight billion year history of the universe and the web will see even closer to the beginning of the universe within a few hundred million years of the beginning of the universe as basically infant galaxies with the universe. Crowning as well awesome. Oh my God. The baby is coming in second up truck. This is a little too graphic. Let's think a little late listing toddlers. Alright because what? These telescopes are seeing are the first after the first gasa formed from the first atoms. Which I from the from the first subatomic particles you finally get enough gas to form stars and the stars and gas Coalitions if you will are what we call the first pro galaxies and that's as far back that's what the Web Telescope. We'll be seeing in overtime. These these little baby. Galaxies began to merge together and form bigger galaxies and these grew over cosmic time into the galaxies. We know and love today like our own Milky Way which is the product of several mergers over time right and has been any recent collisions that we have seen a galaxy takes a long time for galaxies to actually merge but Hubble actually that's one of the one of the wonderful discoveries of the Hubble Space Telescope is that merging is common in was more common in the early universe so with Hubble. We've looked out into distant space looking back in time. And we've seen quite a few cases where galaxies are either in the process of merging or they've already merged and that merging process creates distortions in the shapes of these galaxies because of the tidal pools and the gravitational polls And it's quite interesting. We believe that our own Milky Way is set to merge with our nearest neighbour big spiral grand spiral the Andromeda And we're on a head on collision course that's something. Hubble helped us Find did axelrod so sky was going to look a lot different in a few billion years right but it won't be for quite a long time. Billions of you are right there right the With with the future here Team Fourth Site Observatory wants to know this. Hi Neal Jennifer Chuck Would it be possible if NASA ends funding for Hobble or It comes to its regular end. Someone like Elon. Musk could buy the rights to the scope and sent his own repair missions thereby now owning telescope because we are seeing that right we are seeing why we are seeing the commercialization of space. We're seeing more Collaboration between the public and private sector with respect to Mrs Space. So what? What's the feasibility at this? Is it for sale. It is not for sale yet billionaires. Everything's for sale. The Current plan is will operate Hubble for as many years as it is scientifically productive. And then when it's not No longer providing a good science It will cease to function eventually. Will need to either pushed the satellite itself either to a higher orbit we call it a parking orbit or orioles helped direct it safely into the ocean Well I don't know exactly where But as a private company involvement. We don't have any official plans for that right now but let me tell you. There's a lot of energetic discussions out there so You know stay tuned for that idea if it's hub's going plunk hobble in the Pacific Ward. Someone can buy it. I think let somebody buy it right and continue to receive permission. Let me let me add this though. Astronomers think about this very hard all the time. What's the best kind of facility to have to do the kinds of astrophysics? We WanNa do and there comes a point such as came point with my own car recently where you have to decide. Is it worth it to put a lot of money into continuing to refurbish something? That's decades old as they call it nickel and dime exactly or is it better to build something fresh using newer technology. So you know Hubbell's not in that situation we we hope. Hubble will be operating for much of the next decade and beyond but at some point the decision will need to be made as to whether the kinds of capabilities that Hubble does could be better done with a new telescope and in fact. There's some wonderful concepts being developed right now for Hubble follow. On's fantastic art. Neil told me make this one right for you for you because this is a personal question for you Dr And this is from Brett Shara and Bradshaw from instagram says. What is your favorite Hubble discovery by the way? I'm a huge fan. Thanks for all that you do. So this is somebody who follows you know. What is your favorite Hubble? Anything I'll slip into my favorite Hubble discovery. It doesn't sound flashy but is actually looking at things like the ultra deep field and finding out that galaxies themselves change in amazing ways over billions of years and Hubbell being the time machine. That is we can actually map out by looking at distant galaxies and comparing them to nearby ones how they changed. Ultra field is even deeper than the original concept once they got the deep field swagger right. Let's do this again okay. Deeper field and then One one image that I just love. It's it's nothing special if you will but it's just a beautiful galaxy doesn't have a beautiful name. Nbc Thirteen O nine. I just think is a gorgeous spiral. So those of you listening to this go out and Google thirteen o nine humble and you'll see a beautiful spiral with some interesting galaxies in the background if you call it on your phone. Nbc Four Eight hundred nine. It'll answer Beautiful Nebula. I'm holding one now. Nbc told me a picture of one. Gus Actually It was on a cat's collar N. G. C. Three six zero three thirty six. Oh three NBC thirty six. Oh three as someone Google Image Hubble in the name you'll see this cluster of newly formed stars surrounded by beautiful ionized gas kind of purpose Nebula and to me this just shows great beauty in the universe and how our telescopes are enabling us to see these kinds of beautiful active regions that we haven't been able to see in such detail before in human history and this inspires all kinds of things even beyond science. Art Science Philosophy All kinds of things are inspired by the observations. We can do with Hubble and other telescopes today and I'm grateful for that so thank you for your comments. I just looked up and G C thirteen thousand nine and Apple Os. You guys the money. Why because this is what comes up on my computer. The Hubble image and now it's it's it's not it's it they don't want any money because all of our images are freely available to anyone and so I don't already pay for it. We pay our tax dollars. Pay In that case Apple owes me much. You can fight that out with them. Are we going to land this plane right so Jennifer? You have any concluding reflective thoughts beyond what you have the electric thoughts you've already shared. I think that The Hubble Space Telescope has shown how we can use as human humanity. We can use technology to do something that not only enhances our scientific understanding of nature and but also gives us a sense of unity. There are people all over the world from every nation that are excited about the Hubble Space Telescope. And what we're seeing and it gives us. I think I hope a sense of unity as citizens of earth that were part of a magnificent an inspiring universe something to look up at and be inspired by and to keep our sights. Our spirits high I think the Strana me inspires all kinds of positive positive And that asteroid deeper deeper thought of the beauty in philosophy and theology and art and music and all of these things are part of what it means to be human. So keep looking up. I'd say somebody just now. You GotTa let her in the book at Yup Bro. Not Dock Jennifer. You just took us out. Chance for Wiseman ending star. Talk for me all right. We'll catch you on the next round if you're stuck at home feeling isolated or worried about the state of things we hear a better helper encouraging you to take a mental health. Break when you can if you need a little help getting started on one of your own here. A few ideas guys. We've been home for awhile now. Yeah it's pretty common to feel a little isolated worried about the state of things right now and we hear on the podcast and the people better help really want to encourage everyone to take a mental health. Break when they can. I've been doing A little project. Nothing too big something that I can accomplish in one day. It sort of feeds my soul to start something and be able to see it through and finish it and it can be the smallest thing like you know that drawer in your kitchen. That is the catch all drawer. That just everything just falls in that drawer. I organized that drawer. You guys. It made my heart feel good. It made yeah. I don't know how to explain it but it was the small thing that I did and it. It got me sort of out of my head and in my body a little bit. Well we also want to point out the folks at better help better help offers online professional counselors who can help if you are wanting to reach out and speak with someone you can talk to a licensed online therapist and find some relief. Some communication some connection. You can get affordable professional. Help when you want it wherever you our listeners. Get ten percent off their first month with the Discount Code. Stitcher get help today. Go to better help dot com slash stitcher.
516: Mike Massimino | Unlocking Science Secrets with an Unlikely Spaceman
"Special thanks to hyundai for sponsoring this episode. Coming up next on the jordan harbinger show. I believe we live in a paradise. I believe a very very lucky to be here. We need to take care of it. But i think we're very very fortunate to imagine what happened. Would look like but i can't imagine anything being more beautiful than our planet and they do think we live in a paradise and we should really treasure every moment that we get to be on this planet. Welcome to the show. I'm jordan harbinger on the jordan harbinger. Show we because the stories secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people we have in depth conversations with people at the top of their game. Astronauts entrepreneurs spies and psychologists. Even the occasional emmy nominated comedian national security advisor or economic hitman. Each episode turns our guests wisdom into practical advice that you can use to build a deeper understanding of how the world works and become a better critical thinker. If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about it. We now have episodes starter packs. These are collections of your favorite episodes organized by popular topics. That'll help new listeners. Get a taste of everything we do here on the show. So if you're you're trying to get somebody else into the show. Just go to jordan harbinger dot com slash start and that is a great place to get a sample of what we do instead of just diving into the feed for some people that might be a little bit overwhelming but either way i always appreciate when you share the show with others. Please go ahead and do that. And take advantage of those starter. Packs again jordan harbinger dot com slash start. Today we're talking with astronaut. Mike mass in me. No you listen to this episode. If you wanna learn why assembling a team around you is crucial for success. Why it's important to take small deliberate steps in the right direction for the sake of your own. Happiness andrew legacy and how stay focused on the task at hand in the face of disaster by thinking like an astronaut and learn. Why even astronauts have imposter syndrome. Also he's got some great stories about screwing up multimillion dollar missions in space slash. Almost dying and space. If you're wondering how. I managed to book all these great authors thinkers and creators every single week. It is because of my network. And i'm teaching you how to build your network for free over at jordan harbinger dot com slash course and by the way most of the guests on our show they subscribe to the course. They contribute to the course. Come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong now. Here's mike massimo first of all you've spent a lot of time and space of five hundred and seventy hours in forty seven minutes and that includes thirty hours and four minutes of spacewalking at some point. Do you wake up in the morning and go wait a minute. Where am i realize. I'm in space. I'm still in space right now. This is real we when you're in space after of course i'm sure you wake up at home sometimes and think oh good. I'm not on the hubble. I can go get a cheeseburger right. But while you're in space do you just never forget that you're actually all the way up there. Because of the whole setup and the weightlessness and you know having a velcro pillow strapped your head etcetera. No i mean it's just like wake up in a hotel room where you're not used to you. Wake up so expect to receive your home your regular bedroom in you wake up you realize that. I like that first night you realize that will wear those kind of eerie feeling. Were just like you get when you're waking up in a stranger. Learn words never deep sleeping remember. We are so it was the first funds waking up. I guess the first day. I night or so but then after a while you know what would you there and you wake up in looks familiar and you come home when you wake up at home and it looks familiar like ready to float out of bed. Now we'll work in both directions. I guess when wake up in the morning generally the first thing i noticed his okay. I i got a cat on my head or something like that or you know. It's a little warm in the room. When you're in space. It seems like there would be a completely different set of considerations. I mean you're not just floating around up there obviously you're strapped something and whatnot book when you wake up. What's kind of the first thing that you notice when you're in space is it. The weightlessness is at the temperature. What is it your first gut like. Wow that was quick night. I need more arrests. You know just like a regular night sort a time to get up already. But then you're like okay. There's gonna be a fun day or an interesting day for me on the space shuttle with more like a slumber party so you have your crewmates around you in their sleeping bags in the same room to wake up everybody else and you see who's up In you know you kind of go through the routine getting out of your sleeping bag enrolling routine kind of becomes pretty important. I guess because you have to get your stuff out of the way on the shuttle we have a little crew cab in your a little personal recorders asleep in space station they do. They have their own personal area there that they can sleep in in. Close the door but in in the space shuttle is more like slumber party. So how close are you to the next game gal aside right next to you i mean. Do you have any personal space whatsoever on personal spain. Their analytic role in iran. Kind of around the wall. Run someone a on. I was on the soil. Just kinda scattered around a gavin knocking into each other necessarily each other. But you're fairly close to wake up and see. Everybody seems sleeping bags out. Who's in the bathroom. And that kinda thin out in. Start your day usually take you sleep asking. Put that away by the little kit. So a little bag of stuff that i had no my sleep kit and sleep mask and whatever else needed for the my pillow ha. I was cold and socks murphy. Warm so you've got your sleep kit. Are you basically care. Beaner kind of into the wall of the shuttle because otherwise i feel like you could wake up and you just have your head you know. Write in someone else's personal space. Are you you end up floating over to the bathroom or something in the middle of the night or banging your head on some. your bedroll. Sleeping bag has hooks. Various little hooks not carabiners but like easy quick release hooks in. There's different things you can hook it to on the space shuttle. There's things that you can receive the hook and so you can't put the sleeping bag to the ceiling or hook asleep in bed to the wall and you floated side of at your inside a sleeping bag. You are floating but you don't float away you'll stay attached to the wall but you're still nonetheless floating hovering kind of over the wall and ceiling wherever it is your seen enough float away. Bang your head. Wake up your friends gonna stay in one area but you disclosed in that one areas. Who's your sleeping bag is secure. Got it. I mean of course when we're little we learn about astronaut ice cream and that's pretty much it and then of course one kid says how do they go to the bathroom. And that's kind of the end of the space lesson at least in the eighties. So i'm still not even sure how that works. I mean. I think the one thing that i have in common with astronauts is occasionally during a really long show. I too need into a bottle. But i think you probably have a little bit more of an excuse so the first time you sign up for the astronaut program essentially and i know it's not as simple as that. I mean in the book you go over just repeated defeats and setbacks from your eyesight to your phd thesis and things like that. I mean there's no set path to becoming an astronaut to what every little kid sub ten years old things when they say they want to be a space man astronaut. There's no application process. You don't upload your resumes someplace and then go to school for this and then end up repairing the hubble. It's more of a convoluted process. Tell us though. What was the thought process going into this. I mean what makes somebody want to be an astronaut. And then actually freaking do it. I mean there is a there's an application you don't sign up you said your fly and there is an application that you can fill out now. It's online. I use a typewriter for mind but after you've been in school and so on it's there's no straight path it's actually right. You follow something that you're interested in studying what you're interested in school. Do currier whatever that seems to me. Things just kind of opened up and happenings take opportunities but the thing you can do is you can keep applying. And so. that's what i did. But i think it's important i had to learn that you're not guaranteed you're gonna get in and is no one set path and the path that's good for someone else's not going to be good for you in the path that's not going to work for somebody else some jobs that are kind of like you know there is sort of like a pattern to it. Some of the test pilots for example. That was more traditional pathway. Become a high-performance aircraft pilot in the military test pilots. And you have that credential. At that point that you can be considered to be an astronaut. You know you've done those things to be a test pilot astronaut pilot astronaut. But even that doesn't have a straight path layers different backgrounds each one of those pilots too but particularly when you get into the civilian ranks and some of the of the military occupations other than pilot. It's kind of whatever works for. There's no said after doing that. But as far as what makes someone want to do you know for me. It was a little boy dream of wanting to walk in space wanting to walk on the moon. Like neil armstrong did. When i was six years old. I saw those guys walk on the moon and add. Got me interested. I thought this was a great thing. They were doing in the coolest thing that anybody could do. These guys were super rockstars. They were the coolest guys on the planet. I want it to be like them but quickly realized i wasn't like them when i started getting older. I wasn't going to be one of these military test. Pilots just wasn't chameleon i of gave up on the dream. Anything could happen. And then when the shuttle program came around. When i was senior college the movie the right stuff came out and i went and see that saw about the original seven astronauts and that started to rekindle my green the wonder of space and then a cool again but then i started finding out more about it. Shuttle program began in nineteen eighty one. When i shuttle eight selected the first group were shuttle astronauts in nineteen seventy eight. I was done with college in got interested again. Throats this movie. That i so i started reading about the astronauts who they were found out that they weren't all military test pilots. They were women and people of color. Different ethnic backgrounds and civilians and it wasn't just a military test pilots who are doing this say longer and they were still a big part of it of course but military test pilots but it was all types of people who are becoming astronauts too much different than who i was. I thought and i never really thought it could actually do it really. But i thought we try and i wasn't that crazy. I needed to get some experience to make myself even eligible to be considered. And even if i got the eligibility where i was qualified to be. Nash i miss a minimum education experience qualifications. And you still fighting bill. It's thousands and thousands of people wanna do this and just a handful get selected. I thought maybe you know maybe it could work out and it's not maybe by trying to do that. I i would lead me to stop nelson the space program gaming the ambition chugging more education that i really passionate about which was the space program and i realized that that's really what i was interested in all along. I could never do it. I thought well maybe can't become an astronaut. Do something in space program for career. I started taking steps toward that in the big step. I took to working for a couple years for ibm after college. I left my job and went back to school and went to graduate school at might when i got my master's degree that's when i started getting the credentials to be eligible to meet the minimum qualifications. And that's when i started applying now. At what point were you working at. Ibm. 'cause that was the safe choice it's earlier in the book and finally someone that you worked sits down and says what are you doing here. Man you gotta get outta here like save yourself. What would you say to someone working a job right now. That they think is just suffocating. And they made the save choice i mean. Do you recommend that people always go for it or do you think there's a place for playing it safe. Now you gotta go for. You have to be honest with yourself about what you're really interested in for me. It turned out that that wasn't the worst thing for me to do was a couple years after college in work. Because if i would've went to grad school right away. I wasn't really into the space right out of college. I think that was part of the issue. Getting college educations great thing. And i had a good college education under my belt. At that point but grad school. I felt anyway was a little bit more specialized than that you know. Now you have your basic education. You get an undergrad. But now she's gonna go to grad school. I thought i needed a better idea of what it is. I really wanted to do in. So what i did. Is i decided to put grad school on hold and work and think about it so that was useful time but it became evident that a couple of years that was enough and it was time to get going now. I see this in a lot of people with close friends and family members to go through this at. They're unhappy with what they're doing. And sometimes you're unhappy. I think in your job for different reasons. Sometimes you just feel like you know you don't want people to work within just not a right fit for you're not doing that is meaningful to you or passionate about it. You know. in my case. I felt that a great job in had good people to work with and i could see myself doing it but i just wanted more. I wanted to feel like what i was doing was really important to me not that it had to be imports. Everybody but i didn't think what i was doing. There was the thing that i was passionate about. And i thought it was a good job in a good way to earn a living. And you part of a great team. When i was working before i went to grad school. It wasn't my passion. And i wanted to be part of the space program and in order to be part of the spoke. I had to make a change and i was going to have to leave new york. Go somewhere else to school and would be the best thing for me. And that's why with him. I d i was able to get in there but finding get it went somewhere else but i think that it's important to be honest with yourself. You don't have to jump off a cliff if you're not doing what you want but you do have to take steps in that direction. I think it's important to start taking steps and it'll open up opportunities for you. What i like what. I was an undergrad. In what i started to read about. Inside interesting was his idea of human factors of people controlling machines and how to design the interface whether it's a cockpit your car console or computer program or whatever such that people can interact with it effectively and what i got really interested. In was robotics of human controlled manipulators and robots working in space in wendy use the robot wendy's person what's the right combination of that and i found that to be really interesting and there was an adviser i had that i found out a professor that became visor time. Shirt and up at mit who on a lot of research in this area for controlling robots in space and in nuclear environment started handling nuclear material on the nineteen fifties and sixties and also undersea submersibles. That would find the titanic and so on he he worked with that. How do you control those vehicles how to people control things can operate them and i found out to be really really interesting. And that's what. I was able to find a niche in something that i could study in graduate school that i found interesting. Also add apple ability to nasa and space program and you mentioned about you know having people who cared about me. Were always these mentors whether it was a teacher and family fender neighbor. Whatever coming in at the right time helped me out and give me a nudge. Does getting jim mcdonald. Who work with. After i was a junior in college. Work with them at an engineering company on long island called sperry and this was my first big real engineering job where i had to wear tied working so on you know. I think he saw something in me. Just happy doing what i was doing. And maybe you know. The traditional engineering job at a big company might be okay for me. But i needed to be in the right area and and i wasn't really interested necessarily just being an engineer. Wanted to do something that they thought had more meaning to it. And for me. What i was most interested in was ended up being the space program and i kept in touch still see him as taiji mccall's mentor my whole life for me in very good friend. He was a guy to try to shake me out of it when i was working after college. Saying you might wanna think about what you're doing you need to move on with what you really love and take those steps before it gets to a. Yeah i mean you mentioned in the book as well you only have one life you to spend it doing something that matters and i think it sounds like that spurs you on quite a bit when you were sitting doing engineering internships things that weren't really floating your boat. It seems like you wanted to live by that and thought. Look life's too short to waste sitting in front of his. Pc designing user. Interfaces is useful. Is that might be you wanted to be on the front. Lines factor wasn't even during user interfaces. I was working as an assistant engineer putting systems together which was fine. But it's more of me. I want to be involved space program. And i think that The point is that you the most important thing you can do with your life is what you do with your life and how you're gonna spend that time and you pay for that. It's not money when i was looking at going to grad school there. Was this cost associated with it. You know it was going to be a cost that i would have to stop working where i had a real job. Rose making pretty good money right out of college so now going back to school. I was going to give that up. In addition to that i was going to have to figure out a way to pay for school and eventually i was lucky. I got nasa fellowships to help me pay. I was hardly making anything right. It was making a little bit of money was covering my tuition and small stipend so really was not making money in my twenties that was worth spent. My time in my twenties was predominantly spent in school. Where you're paying for the privilege as opposed to getting paid to do something. And i remember thinking about that. He was going to be these years of my other friends. Were out there making money and you know doing that but some money cost with going back to school. But i think the costs for me of not doing that was higher because i was gonna pay for it with my life and that i would not be able to pursue what i wanted to pursue in life unless i made that change. I felt and you know. I wasn't sure that this was exactly the right way to go. And there were other ways to try. But i thought at least going and getting a master's degree at a place like mit was a good idea and was something i felt like. I really should do and wanted to do. And if i didn't do it i'd always regret it. I think that's the way you look at things. Not in dollars and sense but in how you gonna spend your time on the planet you know. How do i wanna spend these next couple of years. I just wanna we worried about making money. Do i wanna do something. That i think is really important to me and the up to go in and get a graduate education. Mit was extraordinary. To be there on those types of people learning things. I learned being totally involved in learning about technology and engineering. And what was going on. it's baseball. Grandma be surrounded by people who felt the same way was just extraordinary experience. And were you thinking about legacy at time in the book you say. I don't wanna tell my children how to live life. I want to show them. Were you thinking legacy or were you just thinking all right. I need to do something important for myself or did you have a wider perspective on this. Do you have a longer timeline in mind. Why don't think it's both. I wanted to be a happy person in your happy pair. Eventually everyone wants kids to be happy to pursue their dreams. And so on. And i think the best way to do that to happen to show them how to do it and add an extraordinary life or death. What you want is not impossible. It might be difficult to attain. I think that happiness in that part of your life and your professionalize is attained by at least try and at least like you feel like you're doing something. There appeared of years when i was in graduate. School and beyond those trying to become an astronaut was twelve time. I thought that. I wanted to try to pursue this after got out of college in nineteen eighty four until the time i was picked in nineteen ninety-six and those twelve years were pretty much filled with this journey of trying to get to nasa as an astronaut does a long time twelve years should be following pursuing something and. It wasn't just the idea that if i don't make it it's not worth it. I don't think that was it. I think it's more like police. I'm trite and it might not work out. But i wanna try and i don't wanna give up in. That's what i thought. The important thing was and if you do that as long as i was doing that giving it my best shot or at least trying to give it my best shot that i felt satisfied and it may not work out for other reasons. You never know. Why do will or won't and mike not but i certainly was going to give it my best shot. And he knows his interesting. Because even though i wasn't an astronaut i didn't think truthfully that i would ever make it. At least i knew. I was putting my best foot forward and try. And that's what we would want for kids but it's also important for me. I was doing it for me. Because i really wanted to do it. And the thought of not trying was on thinkable but at the same point i wanted to set a good example in that regard. At least you know trying to pursue something that's important yun is no reason to settle. You hinted on this earlier as well. And i saw this in the book said i never achieved anything on my own. People have always pushed me to be the best version of myself. And i thought this was really interesting and important because of course you get everywhere with the team. But there's also this myth especially in the united states or the west. I should say in general of this kind of self made man the guy who's just pulling it all together on his own kind of john wayne figure and it seems like that was not the case for you. You had a team together to help with your recollecting. How your buddies are tearing apart thesis almost for sport at this point in college. There's no benefit for them. They're just kind of enjoying watching you squirm here and you realize that if you work hard and get help from good friends you can do pretty much anything it sounds like you had the opposite of bootstrap do it all myself attitude. Yeah i think that people learn or successful in different ways and they weren't tortured me just to see me squirm. They were helping me. I asked him to help me prepare for my doctoral exams. And i did it for other people to you grill each other and quiz each other. 'cause it's better to do that amongst friends and prepare for when the professors get they. Would they were helping me and they really did a good job in getting me ready. I think that for me. What i found was that i was more of a team guy more of a team player where i enjoyed. Try to bring out the best in other people and having them try to bring out the best in me and the concept of team even in a situation where you try to get a phd which is seen as an individual accomplishment. Guy didn't necessarily see it that way. I felt as a lot of support. That was that i needed from my friend for my lab mates and from my professors and for my adviser and so on help me and they were there to help me and i try to help other people but i think that you know the sense of doing it all on your own. I think that that's outdated. I don't know when that ever existed. But you gotta need help. You need a team around you to be really successful. you know. Life is a team game. You're not going to be successful on your own. And so i think when you have success you need to think about it right yes you know. I worked hard. I deserve what happened. Maybe i deserve that. But there's usually plenty of credit to go around and you need to be grateful for the help. You're listening to the jordan harbinger. Show with our guest. mike massimino. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by optimize irs. Jen's been struggling with leg cramps. But she noticed a big difference when she started taking magnesium magnesium breakthrough by by optimize. Irs is an organic full spectrum. Magnesium supplement that includes seven unique forms of magnesium one but whatever by optimize have five star reviews. Saying i'd give it one hundred stars if i could within one month of use and one from daily struggles with restless legs constipation and poor sleep to know struggles with any of that so it sounds dramatic. It sounds like magnesium makes you poop. But i'll tell you those leg cramps they go right away. Please do not run to the store. And just by the first magnesium supplement you find most magnesium supplements use the to cheapo synthetic forms. They're not full spectrum. they won't fix magnesium deficiency or help you sleep better. probably they're seven. Unique forms of magnesium magnesium breakthrough has all of them. Just take two capsules before you go to bed and see how much more rested you feel when you wake up for an exclusive offer for our listeners. Good imag breakthrough dot com slash jordan and use jordan. Tendering checkout to save ten percent. This episode is also sponsored by better help online therapy. Many people think therapy is for crazy. People are weak people. Don't you find it interesting that people don't think twice to seek medical health for health related problems but think that seeking help for emotional issues. Some sort of weird sign of weakness. I don't understand that. Let's be honest. How much easier is it to just grab the closest pint of ice cream. Drink your sorrows away. Pretend like our problems. Don't even exist. It takes a heck of a lot of strength to face problems and ask for help but better help. Counseling makes it so easy frigging easy. You fill out a questionnaire you get matched with your counselor under forty eight hours video sessions phone sessions unlimited messages with your therapist all from the comfort of your own home. You don't have to drive you don't have to park. You'd have to read dwell magazine in the waiting room. Everything you share is confidential. If for any reason you're unhappy with your counselor you can request a new one anytime. No additional charge our listeners. Get ten percent off your first month at better help dot com slash jordan visit better h e l p dot com slash jordan and join over. One million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced better health professional. This episode is sponsored in part by hyundai hyundai questioned everything to create the best tucson ever every inch of the all new tucson has been completely reimagined resulting in an suv loaded with available innovations. Both inside and out from designed to technology to safety every aspect of the tucson has been improved upon hyundai's digital key allows you to transform your smartphone into a spare key which is so convenient. Because if you're like me can never find your keys your wallet. It's one less thing to remember. Led daytime running lights there. Stylishly hidden within the cascading front grill making them invisible when not in use set multiple user profiles in case. You share your car with other people. I love that i can happen. And have the seat mirrors climate control. Radio presets all personalized. Just for me plus a ten and a quarter inch full touch infotainment screen with a blind spot view monitor which is a great safety feature especially when merging the suv has been completely redesigned. Inside and out to create the best tucson ever learn more at hyundai dot com. I feel like i should say that. In a breathy voice learn more at hyundai dot com and now back to mike on the jordan. Harbinger show at mit. It's a smart kid olympics. The best of the best you mentioned in the book and then there was me regular guy from long island. It sounds like what we call imposter syndrome. Which is essentially. I'm the guy that slip through the cracks. What am i doing here. Is that something that you still feel that way. Sometimes i mean. Did you even have that up there. You're with this amazing all-star team did you still have second thoughts like maybe i'm the the wringer here when i was at mit. I felt like over my head here legally smart guys. I think a lot of them you know out of the men and women up. There felt the same way. You know what's going on here. I think i probably felt it more than most though. I think it just did get the sense that they did in the astronaut program too. I felt like strange at times. I felt like you know these guys are so tremendous. He's been women so tremendous. What am i doing among some here but at the same point you know i felt like i did have something to contribute in there. Were things that. I could do well and they just wanted to do well. I wanted to be a part of the team. I wanted to do the best. I could just worked really hard. But i always felt like particularly thinking. Mit with the level of brain power. They have up there. I wasn't your typical. It fell like whatever that means. You know i. I really had to work hard to keep up. What was your first thought when you saw the fueled rocket. i mean. You've been to the rocket before you got in of course. What were your thoughts when you saw this thing. Fueled up ready to go and you're walking in. I mean there's gotta be some heavy duty emotional stuff going on when you're about to actually get in and take off and leave earth. We also read about in the book. There is that you get out to the wash pattern. The rocket is fueled. I haven't been around the field space shuttle before his Burn off of the cryogenic fuel. Smoking it looks like smoking vapor going into the air and it's making these ungodly noises and it looked like it was alive. It looks like a beast like an actual beasts alive and thought that went through my mind was. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea but it was too late by that. Point is time to get on get on a spaceship and let's take our. Let's roll the dice on this one but it really isn't very intimidating and to get this space to go from zero to seventeen thousand five hundred miles. An hour and a half minutes to get to orbit requires an extreme amount of power and he's huge powerful machine. The biggest most powerful machines ever bill. He's beasts take us away from your the power that is harnessing. There is really something that i you know. We try to control it but it is right on the edge of in controllability just in its other power. It's amazing that people can build machines that can do that. It just really is just incredible that we can build anything that powerful. But we do do you think about the safety factor or death when you're going up there or are you just too focused on the game too excited. This is the moment i thought i thought about. You know what might happen safety. You do the best you can train to operate safely. Make sure you check everything and make sure you check the other guy and the other guy checks you very open to making sure that you don't make a fatal error and everything is just the way it's supposed to be. You have all the people on the ground in you are trained on in such a way. That would be safe so that if you do make a mistake or something is not quite right that you or someone else will be able to catch because you'll help them see what's going on and come to the conclusion through something wrong. That could be a safety problem. See wanted to be very vigilant about what's going on and help those around. You be vigilant with you and so we're trying to do that. And so the safety part of it. I knew we would try to do the best. We could move you say this possible but you also know that there's that uncontrollable factor with this is because you're doing something that is so dangerous that even if you operate safely and everyone does their job that just the nature of what you're doing can overcome that and it could be a bad day so i certainly thought about you know what the consequences were in what could happen. Tried to be ready for it. I guess if that to happen but thought about more ahead of time and particularly in the weeks prior before that i thought about it about what might happen not worried about business trying to appreciate the life. I had that if something did happen. That whatever's left behind was in his best shape as could be. And then once you get out there especially on the launch bed your different thinking about something is usually a lot worse than doing it. And i found out there was something i was scared about or even up to this day so nervous about or something that worries me thinking about it is always much much worse than actually doing. It is actually doing taking action. Action is always better than inaction if you weren't about something that's going to happen in the future like a space launch. Well you can try to prepare and study and do all that just the basic nervousness. Worry about it if something bad happening. There's really nothing you can do about that. But then when you get into it and you're going through the checklist it's not as scary at that point but thinking about it was always worse. Yeah i can see that. I watched the clip from the big bang theory. Where you're going up in space. I don't know if it's a so us or something. There's a russian guy and there's howard wallets and it's like this is the moment we're doing it and and wallets goes. I actually have very mixed feelings. Guy say i love this but that's ignition. I love this part goes to russia. Gave me too and then wallet his. I rather fairly mixed feelings. All the writers in the show so saying but the right has come up in the lines for us. Of course it is brilliant at some level. Because i was thinking i don't know if i would say i love this part because you know at some point i don't know what all those jeez feel like or the fact that there's just massive amounts of explosions and fireballs underneath and we're about to hurt off into space. I think i would be extremely nervous. Then again you've trained for this. You're excited there's probably so much adrenaline going that i don't know what you're feeling at that point. I don't know if you can't feel anything. It seems like they kind of thing that would just make you go numb. Are you a natural thrill secret though. Is that something that you've always had your blood. No i'm not. I'm not so i wouldn't say something like i was acting when i said i love this bar. That was acting here in the big bang theory. Television show that. I did where we launched but no. I'm not a thrill seeker so my friends were especially my test pilot friends day. Like doing some extreme stuff. But no i never was an extreme. Sports thrill seeker kind of jumping out of airplane. Let's go ahead and withing with simple up the mountain and see what happens kinda guy. I was a little more conservative than that used to doing that. Sort of stuff. I think i was out of my comfort zone a lot as an astronaut but it was sense in what we were doing in our training to build up the experience in the confidence. We need it in case something did go wrong on the day that we can react appropriately. So yeah for me. It was really fun. It was a great experience. I'm talking about the real shuttle flight spaceflight in the big bang theory. But the real one you know for me. It was fairly exciting both in a fun also in a kind of a nervousness. Sort of way as well. It's a lot of intensity and fairly stressful as well. You know that was something. I had to learn how to deal with. Yeah i mean you've said in the book no matter how bad things are you can always make them worse. Which when i heard that i thought what kind of attitude is that and then i realize actually that's perfect because you realize that you can only focus on the things that you can control. What does that phrase mean for you in terms of training in terms of your life. Because it's a little counterintuitive like. Oh my gosh. Thanks for the vote of confidence massimo. I can always make it even worse than it is now. Thanks for the reminder figures reported. i don't think it's a bad thing to remember. I think it's a good thing to remember. Is that. We tend to make things worse than they really are. When something happens whatever it might be you break something you try to fix something and you break it. You know you're like well that's a paying now. I've got to do something extra. What the tendency is that. I find is that you make one mistake in and you're like oh jeez down going to have to spend ten minutes to fix that. I don't want to spend those ten minutes. Let me rush through this and make that time and then by rushing you break something else which now you not just going to be ten minutes. But it's now it's another fifteen on top of that. Whatever might happen and you just make it worse and worse and so generally the first mistake however bad it might be isn't game over in might be all right is very rare. That one mistake ends the game. That was bad but let me contain it. Let me not make it worse. We had this happened but things can get worse. So for example in what i found when i was training and what i found in space. Was that if you make a mistake. So you break something which i did. Actually you make a mistake and all of a sudden you've created this problem as bad as it might seem. It could get worse right now. You know at some point if you're working on something and it's broken maybe only part of what you're working on his broken not the entire piece of equipment and you could lose your tools. This is what i was thinking of during my spacewalks that i made a mistake but i could really make this worse if i made a mistake and all of a sudden hooked myself and i start off into space and they got to come get me now made it a lot worse because i was nervous or not thinking because i made a mistake or if i made more mistakes and i lost tools for example losing a tool. That's gonna help me fix this problem now. I've made it worse all right so i've made this mistake. I don't wanna make it any worse. Let me try to obtain it in where it is right now. It's not great but it could always get worse. And i think that's what we forget and when we rush and we try to make up for the mistake we made. We don't keep a cool head and we make it worse than we've got even a bigger problem with deals. You're referring to repairing the hubble telescope. I which is you stated is essentially brain surgery in space. And you you end up with a strip screw which a strips grew in space at first. I thought oh you stripped grew. I hope this isn't going to be the whole story. And then i realized well you strip to screw in space. You can't really dig your fingernail under their grab a screwdriver. From a toolbox in hammered. The thing off a i don't know seventy six million dollars something something telescope with a piece on it that you can't get another one unless you go down to north america and grab one which is not an option. Tell us about that. Harnessed that almost foiled the entire mission because that was kind of a brilliant little example of something that if it happened anywhere else in the world so what in the fact that it happens in space killed you and destroyed the mission and possibly the whole hobble telescope. The harness floats off. And you had to jump up and get it. But that's fine. If you're in albuquerque. To get a jump up and grab something it's not fine when you jumping could actually catapult you into the abyss of nothingness was interesting. What happened was that was on my first base walker. My second mission for me. It was a cable harness. We call it a cable that needed to be hooked up to deliver power to this instrument that had a power supply that had failed but we had a workaround where we were going to hook this power harness to it and put it to another supply and so on and this cable i was going to have good access to it even was going to be the big repair. What's going to happen today. After by the other team the other team spacewalkers but the space walk mike good point on i would do that day gave us good access to hook up this cable for these guys better than they were going to have tomorrow when we rotated the telescope in a different direction by job was to help them out. You get ahead for for the next day and hook this thing up and was a cable. That always put two hooks on everything that i use just in case one hook came undone the item would float away on me but this one was different because i only have one hook available was gonna put it on that and then go straight into the telescope and install it but what happened is i was getting this harness. We were having trouble with the gyroscopes through installing. And i was told to go to the back of the space over and grab a new gyroscope. Backup gyroscope till we weren't playing news and therefore it's kind of tucked away in the back and around to the front of the telescope where we were working so i had this cable. I mean just with this one hook. We kind of flop and off the side of me as i went all the way to the back to get this gyroscope in and they came all the way to the front handed it off and somewhere. I must have done something to bump that one hook and i put my waist other into the handrail on the telescope. And as just kind of getting myself set. I see this. Harness harnesses cable focused my head and up away from me very slowly and it was about to launch itself away from us and it's interesting when i went through my mind very quickly at that moment. Was we only have one of those. I knew we only had one. So i knew if we lost it my friends. Have you ever paid the instrument the next day but they did wasn't gonna work without this cable so new deaths only when we have the next thing i knew was that there was star trek recovers which was very very delicate. We're right above my head and this thing was floating right past though. So if i left for it if i left for this thing i could hit those records but i also knew from my habits that had a waste around the handrail at the front of the telescope. And a waste at meant that i had a leash and that if i went and grabbed his thing if i let go to grab it that my leash would prevent me from hitting those star trackers and we're prevent me from launching myself into space. So i knew. I would probably be okay. And so i felt split-second. I made this decision. So i was gonna take that chance and try to grab this thing. 'cause i thought it'd be okay and sure enough. That was the case. I kind of pushed myself up a little bit to grab this thing and then i had to tug from my way to pull me back down to. Where was it worked out fine. If i did not know all those things i could have created a a much worse of a problem by launching myself into space. A smashing into the star trackers when it going to try to get this cable but it worked out in no one really noticed. There's relief that you didn't kill yourself but there's probably also got to be some relief like i think i got away with that and nobody has to know unless i choose to tell them about this right. What was funny is when we're working on the right payload bay in the guys inside you take turns when you go out and spacewalk the two teams but the team inside is looking outside reading you to checklist and looking over your shoulder. They see the. That's going on. So john grunsfeld my buddies inside and i think he said mass before you could really get the words out. I heard him start. Watch your head watch. You know it was over. It was over that quick. And no one said anything you know. And i have a helmet camera on and i know that everyone underground is watch. But no one's saying we just kept going after we got back and we were home for about a week or so. We had a debrief spacewalking debrief and we went through that. And no one said anything to me. You know about it at all no almost forgot about it and then tomasz gonzalez torres. Who was our lead flight controller for spacewalking. The flight controller guy. That had helped train us alone. This young lady Kristy hanson the two of them worked as a team to moscow's the senior guy and he was leading the debrief and ask all the questions work and he was looking at. He was in the front room. Control center during spacewalks very intimately involved got to know him very well. Good friends with him. He pulls me aside after walking out at a debrief arrested outside the building. And he comes to ask you something and the name. His harness was the pie haunt us. It was a. pi was the after. I think it's power interface extension hornets. We call it the pie and he comes up. Meaning like know very quietly. Goes what happened with the pie. He what do you mean. 'cause 'cause i just sorta think foot by your head you went up and what the hell happened. What was that. You didn't want to ask so embarrassed me or whatever he notices. We just kept going so he didn't notice but i think he's one of the few people that noticed what happened and it could have been a real problem to thing would have floated away. It would have been a real problem. But i snatched it before anyone could really notice except with tomasz. It's funny because when we think about space you know we all watch all these movies and we think okay if you accidentally launched yourself away. You're probably tied to a bunch of different things. Or if we've really watched a lotta of we just figure oh there's a way they can maneuver and then grab him but not really right. I mean if you float the direction you're not supposed to float that's it. Yeah we always have a safety tether rod. So safety tethers eighty five feet so if you get that far away eighty five feet for a long way to beef and we've had some astronauts we'll get to see a blooper reel don't let this happen to you which saw mash have launched themselves doing a tool chase and they never get the tool. Once the thing gets away it's you're not going to be able to control yourself that accurately get it or you're gonna do is launch yourself somewhere and create another problem and you know try to wheel yourself back in like a fish having a few times. Not all the time very rarely but still enough times. There's a blooper reel that you can see these things whether he's ask made these mistakes. Well i think the really the bigger danger for me. There is if i were damaged to tell us go because i was in a very delicate area the telescope and by launching myself. I could have hit it. But i tell you what i saw. That power harness floating away from them more than just a harness. I saw the future of astronomy floating away and it wasn't going to let that happen. You know it was a little bit risky. But i figured it was worth the risk at some point. You're thinking i'm gonna look pretty bad if we go back in. The debrief is so what happened. Was we were really close. Everybody got up there. Fine and then mass. Let the pie harness. Go don't know what he was thinking. And then we couldn't repair it right right. I'd be to blame yet. My name would be on all the trying to be books for the reason why we don't know the age of the universe. Exactly do mike massimo's gross negligence. We have no idea what this galaxy looks like. Is that blooper reel available anywhere in the public domain because that sounds class. Yeah i don't know Where you get a copy of that probably not on vhs. You'd have to dig through the archives and it's probably not worth the effort. It's more of a training tool than it is. Sound like a blooper. Reel on america's favorite videos. You'd probably find it very boring actually but for astronauts. It's pretty cool. This is the jordan harbinger show with our guest. Mike mass amino. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by chilly technology. I used to struggle to sleep at night. Because i tend to run warm. I think a lot of us do on top of the fact. It's frigging hot. These days i thrash around and toss and turn. There's baby next to me. There's wife next to me. I can't get cool enough to sleep. The chilly pad made a huge difference for me. The bed feels cool. Like you just got in stays cool all night long one of the most important parts of staying healthy obviously as the quality of your sleep. 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Harbinger dot com slash deals. And that's where you'll find all the codes all those special. url's promo codes. Please consider supporting those who support this. Show don't forget we've got worksheets for many episodes. This one is no exception. If you want some of the drills and exercises talked about during the show those are all in one easy place and that link is also in the show notes at jordan dot com slash podcast and now for the rest of my conversation with mike massimino producer. Jason was asking if there's a simulator at nasa to try and replicate the launch. Or if every time you launch. It's the first time you felt that stuff. Because you simulate pretty much everything but it seems like the launch would have to be broken down into parts. Like maybe you can simulate the gravity but not all the controls. Is there something. That's just like the inside of that shuttle and tries to simulate the feeling that you're gonna get there is but you're right. I mean what you do it in pieces. But there's no way to get the power launch. You need just can't do so what we do. Is we have a emotion base simulator where we practice launches. And you know you tilt back and you move up hydraulics moving around and shake but it cannot replicate that violence on the ground system impossible and then for the g. forces we do a simulator ride. We do a centrifuge. Ride is a centrifuge at brooks air force base in san antonio that we ride that set our future and we go we get the g. profile for eight and a half minutes really what it is with the jesus that the major part of that is the last two and a half minutes of the launch from six to eight and a half minutes that two and a half minutes you get about three gs on your body you know they spend you out and give the geez golden up and then you get to those sustained three. Jeez so you can feel what they're like on your body we get more geez not the most. He's i've ever taken in our airplane. T thirty eight so we fly we get up to six or seven g's but those are only for like a split second a second or two a couple of seconds you might get that amount of g force here for two and a half minutes. That's kinda long for that matter. You know three jesus not that much us three times your body weight pushing down on you. So it's like you're on your back and you've got a pile of bricks. Your chest is the feeling jays with all the other things to worry about and think about it that time. He's got to of you sitting on you like a schoolyard bully. Basically at that point right. Yeah that's not so bad actually it just it okay you know. Just wait until this is over. She had as much to do. It's kind of take it. Yeah i guess you're thinking all right. This is a little uncomfortable. Guess i'll wait until i'm weightless witnessing the miracles of right it's not the worst thing but you know like okay. You happy when it's all. Yeah sure you're up there repairing the telescope or doing any kind of space walk. Which by the way you've got over thirty hours of spacewalking so think about just being out in the fastness of space looking at the earth hanging out with multi multi super expensive dollar equipment. That's super delicate fragile. And you're thinking about the consequences of a tear in the suit at one point in the book. How do you even decide what to worry about. When pretty much everything up there is lethal. I think it's you don't want to worry about anything. You want to have confidence in your suit and just go about your work but you also want to be very careful you just want to operate very safely you know wanna cowboy anything it'd be cavalier about the way you moving around to doing things because that leads to trouble you just turn into this sort of motive operating where you try to be very professional very precise everything you say that comes out of your mouth you want to be very very precise about what you're doing what you're reporting what you're asking every time you move you're moving with purpose you're always know where you are you're not gonna lose anything you're not gonna lose yourself you know exactly what you say is you know where everything is very piece of equipment everything is on you have have this total consciousness what you're doing and in that way you know you're operating in a very efficient way that will give you the best chance of being successful but also a very safe way to give you the best chance to come back inside and you have to trust the equipment that it's gonna work when you get into your space suit and you seal yourself in there you got help from you friends and buddies checking everything and you got people on the ground watching making sure things going okay but they can and you try to operate very safely but still even with that at the end of my second spacewalk i found out there was a slight tear in my glove and if it was something that we had noticed that the beginning of spacewalker anywhere before then it would have probably create us to terminate the spacewalk but because it happened toward the end and we were coming in anyway. There's really not much we can do about it but luckily it didn't affect anything that day except make me realize that a little bit closer to the edge. I wanted to get one. Yeah no kidding. i'm the suit. It seems like if you accidentally made a little tear in. What are these things made out of. That can kind of accidentally happens. There's a lot that can actually go wrong with the suit and i you can't just throw some duct tape on it and go out there anyway. No the thing you want. Prevent from being compromised is the inner bladder of suit. 'cause the suit has seven layers to it including layer of kevlar. The part that is more vulnerable is the gloves because gloves. Don't have that layer. Kevlar you know. 'cause you can't be too stiff and the kevlar just texts mainly from an impact and so in other parts of the suit but the glove gets a lot of wear and tear and so the material bunny outside which is pretty tough can get worn down over time and it's a little cut develop. It could cut the outer layer now. I still had a lot of layers inside protecting man. I still had the bladder on the inside. But as you start wearing through those layers you start exposing more critical layer so the outer layers. You can take a cut in and survive. But what you've done it you start exposing and it's the pressure bladder rubbery pressure bladder inside. That keeps your pressure. Keeps air the atmosphere inside of you suit intact. You can take a hit or cut or scratch in the material on the outside as long as it protects the pressure bladder. But when we've been send to my cases that we had gone through the outer layers and that we were going to get closer to that pressure bladder and that's why it would have been a situation where you'd have to stop today have been discovered earlier data and so right before you're about to leave the shuttle and go on a spacewalk. Are you kind of nervous at this point or are you thinking man. I'm already in space hike. We're already here. Let's just do this to me. Was abused difference going outside the spaceship. And it's kind of like you're in a room sort of you're in this room. You know inside of your cabin. You're on the ground and then you're in space but you're in space but you still say the cabin. You've gone far away in the cabinet. You still inside being in an airplane. Now you still inside the airplanes flying around and when you looking through. The window of the spaceship is kind of like looking at the fish aquarium looking through a window. Windy go outside out in space now. I really felt like i was outside was in space and it wasn't looking inside of his room through a window anymore. I was looking anywhere. What is really nothing around you. I mean even when you're outside on earth guy you know you see stars you know you have the sky above you or clouds when you're out in spades. There's nothing they're just stars you know just openness this idea. I really felt like i was outside. I really like a space. Man was a much different feeling of being inside of the cabinet and much more beautiful view as well and you can look anywhere you want and you could really experience the brightness of the sun in the darkness of the when you're not in the sun and you can feel the temperature changes and you can look out and see things without being constrained by a window into stars and in turn your head and look at the earth and the altitude rerouted hubbell's one hundred miles higher than station with the space station applies. It was at the ceiling of where the shuttle could find you a curb the planet you can see there around nisa which is extraordinarily. How clear are the stars without the atmosphere. That must've just been a total game changer. I mean you're already looking at pictures of space. You're looking at the stars a lot. I would imagine as a kid and then you're there. There's nothing between you and those things. They're perfect points of light. So the reason stars twenty on the ground is because the light comes through the atmosphere and gets a bit distorted any twinkle but there's no twinkling perfect points of like when you get above the atmosphere and you see them directly. You're not any closer to them. But they're just a lot clearer. You can see different colors in the sars. And they don't twinkle agencies perfect points of light everywhere. What about space sickness. I wondered. you're in a boat. You're going back and forth. Get a little seasick. Is there space sickness or is that not a concern space sickness for sure after up my first day in space. I was over by my second day and my second flight. I wasn't affected at all but my very first danes in space. I was motion sick and it was so kind of okay. I got everything done but at the end of that day right before bed by tried to drink some water and it came right back up and i wasn't feeling well. I was happy to go to bed. That i get a good trust and we got the next morning so much better. But it's a conflict of your sensory inputs. Vestibular system is an earth when you're moving around in a boat or car to get motion sick kids because they might be listed particularly if you're looking at a if you're trying to read something in your eyes are telling you you perfectly still and your is being accelerated bounced up and down on a car or a boat or whatever. That's what lisa sea sickness motion sickness in space. Sure you're a stimulus system which works gravity is not moving at all is telling you perfectly still moving around your eyes. Say moving in that leads to the same sort of effect and what happens is the brain gets smart about this and eventually will stop listening to the distributor system. Because it's not working any longer and then you find and then you don't get sick anymore. It's amazing how the human body can adapt to space just within a few days. I mean that's so impressive. The brain is an amazing thing and the whole system. Our body is able to do some amazing things and getting ready. Repairing the hubble saving humanity the future of humanity right the special forces of nasa over here six hundred and fifty grand in our is emission cost. But you still gotta be doing some horsing around up there. What was the most fun you had. And i'm not talking about the. It was really rewarding. Saving the hubble program. What's the fun stuff that you guys are doing up there. Especially when the missions are over. And you're decompressing looking out the window listening to music and just taking in that extraordinary view with something. I can do forever for me. That was the best way to decompress. And just enjoy the time up. Dirt enjoy the view. Bagnis -nificant are you able to stay. Clean up their physically or is it just kind of like wipe your armpits with a wet nap and way to get back to earth. It's pretty good. It's just like taking a sponge bath. You have a liquid soap that you use and waterless shampoo and you don't really have running water for a shower but you able to take a sponge bath and say fairly clean. But you're ready for a shower when you get back for sure. Yeah i bet. There's certainly a lack of water. I mean that stuff is heavy. And you're bringing plenty of it in your body as you said in the book. Today's coffee is tomorrow's coffee right. So yeah that's the way. It is on the space station. It's recycled on the shuttle. We had fuel cells generated water as a byproduct of the power that they generated but space station. Yeah they recycle All the water so to taste coffees tomatoes. Coffee what does it feel like to readjust to earth after land. I mean what did you do. I and what did you miss most in space. Besides of course your family. I miss of course as you said my family and friends and i miss things like just going baseball game. I was looking forward to that. Baseball season was starting both of my flights the spring and was looking forward to that pizza afforded just grabbing a pizza and just watching. Tv and veg out and people just being around a lot of people just being around normal sort of normal stuff. I think that when we landed a few days after landed my son is a swimmer and he was on a local neighborhood. Swim team in the swim meets. Were on saturdays and all the parents would be. They're sitting in their lawn. Chairs under you know under these kind of tent like structures and getting the kids ready and it was always a crowd of people you know just a lot of kids and a lot of parents and coaches and you know all this activity with swim meets. Lots of people. And i really enjoyed those things. And that's what i miss being around. A lot of people had a big family. Your community event for me was something. I look forward to swim. Meets look to going to baseball games in eating pizza using real sleeping in a normal bet. Yeah i can imagine sleeping in a bed that you won't float off or away from probably in taking a nice little shower as well. What was the strangest thing about readjusting back to our as you mentioned at one point you dropped a bag of groceries because you just let it go in mid air. Stay there you kind of forget where you get used to it. You know space just float and stuff and he gets back to earth and that doesn't work as well. It doesn't work at all and yes. I had that experience where i was taking. A bag of groceries added a car and where to put him so just reached back. And we'll put it up high and let go like was gonna float right there and of course. It just crashed the ground but like bang. Gravity is terrible. And i think also. You're so focused on the mission and you focused on the mission in training and get ready for it and and executing it being up there and then all of a sudden it's over this thing you've been thinking about for years is now over and it's time to figure out know what to do next so in some ways know it's fun stuff you don't spend time with your family and do that but it's life on earth is a lot stuff in life in space. I think because you have more decisions to make and you have more options you have to deal with a lot more than you do in space and space. It seems to be more regimented spectacular. And it's fun in new and different than you get back to earth and you've got to mow the lawn and fix the car and it's a lot tougher. It's not as much fun. How did being in space change you. What sort of lasting after effects do you have from the up. There i think for me. The one is that dreams come true something a little kid. Something i thought would never happen and he was talking to you now. I can't believe that actually got a chance to do it. So dreams really do come true. It's possible to have an extraordinary life. And the other thing is just the beauty of the described. The book and a few different passages but one where is. Ap the planet from the spacewalk. Especially you'd see the round of the planet and look and turn your head and see the stars and just the beauty of it. In one moment. When i pause and i thought this would be the view from heaven if you could look down from heaven. This is what you say. They just dwelled on that for a moment in the cinema self. Now that that that's not right such more beautiful the net. This is what happened. Look like i believe. We live in a paradise. I believe a very very lucky to be here. We need to take care of it. But i think we're very very fortunate to imagine what happened. Would look like but i can't imagine anything being more beautiful than our planet and they do think we live in a paradise and we should really treasure every moment that we get to be on this planet. Beautifully said and it's amazing you've done so much for the future of space exploration just the hubble repair itself which was By the way if you're thinking about grabbing this book definitely do even if not just for the very end where you're performing this space brain surgery on the hubble and the answer to the problem was ripped the handle off using sure brute strength really funny stuff and really really great book. What do you think of spacex virgin galactic and companies like that privatizing space travel. I think it's our future. We've been waiting. I think ever since the government got involved with sending people back in space back in the early nineteen sixties and and apollo program. You know there's always been this talk of. What is it gonna open up. You know when. It's like aircraft when aeroplanes were i designed it was just a few them in military applications and the government used them as military tools and for other reasons. They develop them. The government primarily did and now we have thriving commercial airline industry. Where every second. We have a plane taking off going somewhere. There's gonna be a long time since we have a spaceship every second taking off. But i think we're finally at the point now and where we can have people fly in space as a profitable business. Space has been profitable with launch systems and satellites and communications and the things that we have with satellites but now it looks like a space travel for people which is ultimately what i think most people are interested in and get a chance to go is now. I think going to become more and more possible. And it's only because of the efforts of the private sector like spacex virgin galactic. Blue origin is another one. Jeff as those company an ear making incredible strides and do some great things in a blue origin is making rocket motors at nasa is going to be buying. They're just great companies. I think and these visionary entrepreneurial leaders are also space nuts thank goodness and they are willing to take the risk in putting that initial capital that you need to get this thing going to take that risk to see if we can open up space to the masses. I think it's going to happen besides just sending tourist up for some fun. I think what's going to happen is because they'll be developing these things systems. These rocket ships propulsion systems. I think that's how we're going to get tomorrow. I don't think it's going to be a government program even governments together going to mars. I think it's gonna be that. I think it will be that. I think you're going to be these private companies that are going to help us get there too. I think it's going to be truly a great effort between different countries. Handy's private companies to get us to mars. So i think it's great it's exciting. It's opened up opportunities for people interested in working in the space back. When i was a kid who was basically nassau one of the really big companies that nasa contract directly. And now it's still that but it's also these private companies and some of my smartest students. I teach at columbia so my students and smartest kids in our country going to work. Who interested in the space program or working for spacex and virgin galactic and blue origin and these other companies. So i think it's a great opportunity for those they can be entrepreneurial and they can explore space and they can do some really exciting things. But i think we're opening up new golden age and i think it's here i think it might be maybe just a couple of years away and a little bit. You're longer than what we had expected. But that's nothing compared to the lasting effects. It'll have over the decades to come. Would you go to mars. If given the opportunity. Yeah i'm not going to be given the opportunity. But if i was given the opportunity i would go. Yes right i figured. Are you just saying that. Because you know you're not gonna get the opportunity to see like yeah. Why not know if. I really had a chance to go on a mission to mars. I'd go but i'm getting too old man. I think it's gonna be a great mission when it happens. But i think you're gonna wanna come back. I think you know there's no credibility to these one in particular that of saying it's a one way trip and you know people are applying goal preposterous. The i think we are gonna go but it's going to be returned trip and it's going to be done the right way and when that happens five years from now but maybe not too far along. You know we'll see. I must get some real interest in making it happen soon. So you know hopefully will happen before too much longer but no absolutely serious financial opportunity to go there. I would hear that. Ilan bring mass with you so me up man. Well thanks for being here mass. We are really honored to speak with you today. Really appreciate it well. It's on his mind. I really appreciate your interest and thanks for sticking with me for so long and appreciate you read the book and hope whoever does read it enjoys it and appreciate conversation thanks. I've got some thoughts on this episode but before we get into that the sample of my interview with astrophysicist neil degrasse tyson we talk about why an interest in science serves every field of expertise from law to art what our education should ideally train. Us for here's a quick. Look inside walt whitman. When i heard that learning astronomer when the proofs the figures were arranged in columns. Before me when i was shown the charts and diagrams to add to and measure them when i heard the astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the room how soon unaccountable i became tired and sick to rising and gliding. I wondered off by myself into the mystical moist. Air and some time to time looked up in perfect. Silence is the same. Curiosity has a kid. But i just haven't had it since childhood. You don't have to maintain it. You just have to make sure nothing interferes with it so the counterpart to this would be sir lyric. Why ruin what something looks like by describing it with words. I can see fully with my is you just get in the way i'd rather my mind flowed freely as a gaze upon something of interest that have the writer step in between me and then interpose is her own interpretation. You don't know the stocks that you're not happy. Keeps me awake is wondering what questions i don't yet know to ask because they would only become available to me after we discover what dark matter. Dark energy is man because think about the fact that we even know how to ask that question. That's almost half the way there. But i wanna know the question. That i can't know yet. What is the profound level of ignorance that one manifest after. We answer the profound questions. We've been smart enough to pose for more including how science denial has gained a global foothold. What it'll take for the us to get to mars before china and why it's dangerous for people to claim. The earth is flat. Checkout episode three twenty seven of the jordan harbinger show with neil degrasse tyson. My impressions of this conversation might mess amino really freaking cool. But he's a super friendly guy. He's really really The guy you want representing the space program. I think he's been on the big bang theory six times. That doesn't hurt. He's done thirty plus hours of spacewalking. That's just the stuff outside of the space shuttle. That's a long time to be walking around in space literally. Plus he's done five hundred fifty hours or more at this point of just space time in general. That is an incredible feat. He's an incredible person. And you know. It's funny. Because i was going to ask him. He's a pretty tall guy. I was gonna ask him to do the math on his size. And calculate the cost of sending him to space versus sending somebody else who's average size or even small and see if he could justify his performance in light of that extra cost. But i'll tell you. His height made imperfect for spacewalking. I learned that from the book. And you you have to be big for a spacewalk because you get more leverage a short guys average guys. We don't actually get that so unfortunately even in the infant fastness of space size matters. It's unfair. I highly recommend the book as well especially the audio version. Because he reads it himself and the passion is just really really. It comes through in the book. I loved it and if you enjoy this. Don't forget to thank us on twitter. We'll have that linked in the show notes as well links to the book's always in the show notes. Please do use our website links. If you buy the book it helps support the show worksheets in the show notes transcripts in the show notes. I'm at jordan harbinger on both twitter and instagram. Or you can hit me on linked in. I'm teaching you how to connect with people and manage relationships using the same system software and tiny habits that i use in real life every single day over at our six minute. Networking course the courses. Free your credit card. I'm not telling you anything. Just go to jordan. Harbinger dot com slash. Course when i'm doing teaching you how to dig the well before you get thirsty. And most of the guests on the show. They subscribe to the chorus or contribute to the course or both. So come join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. This show is created in association with podcast. One my team is jen. Harbinger jason anderson robert. Fogerty milly ocampo. Ian baird josh ballard and gabriel mizrahi. Remember we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends when he finds something useful or interesting. If you know somebody who's interested in space travel exploration high stress leadership situations share this episode with them. I hope you find something interesting in every episode of this podcast. So please share the show with those you care about. In the meantime do your best to apply what you hear on the show and leave everything and everyone better than you found him. That's right. I'm changing it up. Folks all right another podcast. I can always recommend my friend. Dr emily morris. Is she a doctor. Now that's amazing. 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