20 Episode results for "John Gary"

#424 - Youth Pastor Returns vs. David Smalley

Dogma Debate

2:23:29 hr | 2 years ago

#424 - Youth Pastor Returns vs. David Smalley

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How can that help me save a here? You ask well listening. Could save a young person. You no for Maureen distress. It might be a family member a friend or even a young colleague. Look we know times can get tough for young people but we also know that having someone in their lives who really listens can make a difference. It's like this. Little supports. Jigsaw and Jigsaw supports us all by helping us to find ways to really listen and be the one good adult and young people's is lives. Go on be a big saver. It will cost you nothing. See Little dotty forward slash one good adult for more legal more for youth. Here's a little. Oh sample of what happened in the Patriots section of this show over at Patriots Dot com slash. David C smalley. You were so outraged at this idea. That one woman can decide to terminate one pregnancy before the baby has any feeling or awareness that is outrageous to you but God having forty to live children ripped apart by. Bears is totally justifiable. Because they call the Dude Dude Baldy. Please tell me you hear the absurdity in that comparison look at look at the quantity of lives that have not been able to be. It's a genocide. Oh you mean like the Passover meal the Grass Tyson not only listening to debate the guess and that must make me at least least fourth listener week four of the. NFL is here in. I have my picks for you for online dot. Ag Don't forget get to use your Promo Code podcast one at Bet online dot ag for your fifty percent sign up bonus again. It's podcast asked one to get a fifty percent sign up bonus at bet online dot. Ag You can always go to podcast. One sports net dot com. See All all the trash talk from all the different hosts as each week. We try to to line up what we think are going to be. Our top five picks. Here's mine if I get this right this week and I picked one of the close scores. which is something? We're doing behind the scenes here. If I'm one of the winners and I get all the games right. 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It love said you the most importantly unle it'll make you think from the podcast one studio in Beverly Hills California. This is done debate with David. Mid Slowly welcome to Dogma debate I am so happy this show is finally happening. We teased this. We talked about it a few weeks ago. I asked my guess if he would come. Come back to have this conversation. He's back today to make it happen. Now here's the deal. One hundred ninety nine episodes episodes ago. That's right are one hundred ninety nine episodes ago back in. Oh Wow what was it. February of two thousand sixteen more than three years ago. I had pastor Greg Lock on Dogma debate now that episode is out there. Most of my shows are in order to get every shot ever done. That's when you good a Patriot dot com slash David C smalley but a couple of episodes. We allowed to stay out on Youtube for free episode. Two twenty five is is one of those episodes got roughly twelve thousand views on Youtube And I left it out there for free because I just felt like it was a really important the conversation to leave out there for the public. It's about Bible contradictions. It's about you know pasture Greg. Lock making a challenge to atheist thing. No one has ever brought up a single contradiction every single word in the Bible perfect and he does his videos with such confidence. Confidence in such vigor That you know this this episode two twenty twenty-five of Dogma debate which you know it it really just shuts down. I believe most of his arguments most of his ideas and I went it back and spot checked that episode. I only listened to maybe five or six minutes of it. I pulled a clip that I wanNA play in a few minutes but I started doing that like an hour before the show and I briefly heard him say something like I hope this is the beginning of a friendship. We can continue to have more conversations. I'M GONNA look that up and I'll get back to you and I said to him. I really hope so to and from then on. He has not responded to my messages. I mean he responded to one email About Getting Josh Fierstein on the show But other than that. He continued his rhetoric. He continued to say that the Bible is perfect. And there's not a single atheists at ever shown him a problem in the Bible and it was. It was really disappointing that we did not get to continue that friendship I really wanted to. I was hoping he was being honest in that respect and I've reached out to multiple times asking him to come back on the show and do it again and he just will not have anything to do with me so if you see his videos if you see him making comments that an atheist has ever responded to this just just tell him to reach back out David Smalley. He's got my email address. He knows where on I'm on social media. He's got all my information and I'm still here. I'm available at all the things I was available before I've loved to have pastor locked back on the show but but last week or two three weeks ago we had a new guy step up to the plate and and be willing to be a part of that conversation and his name is pastor John Gary John. Welcome back to the debate. Hey how are we doing David. Thanks again Dan for having me man it'd be back it's it's good to have you back and I think my patrons have really enjoyed Not only our interaction but But your interaction with them over on our patriot. You've been really active in the comments there. I've tried to be it's been. It's been a lot of fun and I. I stayed out of the conversation for that reason. I read it all but I'm staying out of it because I don't want to jump into. This is their time to talk with you really so I I stay out of it but it looks. It looks like it's been a lot of fun for for everybody involved so i WanNa remind everyone that this episode is well is going going to have additional content behind the scenes. We're going to have an extended version of the show. All of the notes that I have on today's Bible contradictions that you've been asking me for for years. I have finally organized them into a document and I'm going to make this document available after this episode sewed four patrons you're also going to get this entire episode commercial free without any interruptions so if that's what you you want and a whole other extended version of the show with extra content do that now at Patriotair Dot com slash David Smalley and John. Our guest is is going to be engaging in comments on this one is well now first question I have for you. John is as you've been working through these these issues with my patrons I'm curious. Has everyone been respectful to you. Absolutely Yep they. They've been great. I really appreciate your patrons They ask hard hitting questions and try to come back with the hard hitting answers. It's been it's been a lot of fun talking with them and most of all the fact that they are respectful on that They're not just trying to argue with me and I'm not just trying to tell them. Hey you're going to hell so we're having a good time and I'm more than happy to do it again awesome. That's so cool. I'm looking at it now. It's like it's up to seventy nine comments just on that one post already back at it and that was just a couple of weeks ago. That looks like it was September. Twenty third that we launched that so we may go through some of that Throughout this conversation but do do you want to do. I'll let you pick. Do you WanNa talk about the the thing that they brought up that they were concerned about the most. Or do you want to just go ahead and dive in To how we left that last week on the temptation thing that you choose which way we go with this. But you're the boss boss. Okay since we talk about. I'm good either way since we talked about patriarch briefly Eh. There's a lot of comments a lot of things that need to be discussed there but let's touch on it. I the the idea that because we kind kind of avoided this. And when people saw youth pastor this is really the first thing they think about that you lead the lives of young of kids. and Ed what kept coming up in the in the Patriots comments is that my listeners patrons are concerned that you are indoctrinating kids and that. That's that's where things go from. Being sort of a basic conversation about we have different world views to you are affecting the minds of young people and they have to grow up and live in our modern world What was your big takeaway from that? Sort of interchange with the patrons Yep so I I'd love to speak to that in terms of indoctrination. What is the difference between an atheist and a Christian other than the fact I believe in God awed? And you don't or someone else who holds a different belief other than atheist to believes in a different God. Whether you talking about Islam whether you're talking about The different variants and Jehovah's Witness or whatever what is really the difference between an atheist and a Christian. What what? What's your thought on that? My thought is that an atheist teaches their kid how to think and a Christian teaches their kid. What to think okay so to me? Were teaching the same things. Though that the thing now in in terms of teaching about God we're obviously we differ for but in teaching about how to live your a humanist. I'm a Christian. I'm a youth pastor. We're teaching the same thing. I don't know what the people how people are seeing what I'm teaching in the comments. Were they mentioned indoctrination. Teaching them are. We'll let me because I feel like you just just kind of brushed over my answer there. John I yeah go. Atheist Atheist often teach our kids to analyze things. Ask for evidence. Vince To remain skeptical to not just accept authority because they are authority to respectfully push back on authority within reason Um before someone is followed. They must demonstrate that they are worthy of being followed that they are good thing to follow a good leader to follow And if someone makes claim that is somewhat extraordinary nature that they need to have extraordinary evidence to back up that claim so an atheist will not their kids about Jesus along with thor and Zeus intimidator and many other myths. We want them to know the stories that built our history but we also want them to navigate the Difference Between Reality and Myth Christians. Yeah for the most part. Do not show a strong history of teaching their children to be skeptical of claims. They do not teach their children to demand evidence. In fact we see this idea of lean on lean not on your own understanding in proverbs. We see this idea of trust the Bible trust in the Lord Seeking seeking information is what got us here with all of this death and destruction and cancer because e was eating eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil when she got busted seeking that that knowledge of good and evil is is. What got us in trouble and create all these bad things we have today so so it's a very very different idea? humanists are teaching our kids to be good because we don't have anybody looking out for us. Let's be good to one another the next episode. Next week I have someone on who is challenging humanism who called humanism selfish that it promotes individualism. Judaism that's the next person. I'm talking with an I can't wait to talk about humanism and a deeper light so I'm GonNa hold that conversation offer next week but the a Christian oftentimes and I know this because I was raised as a Christian. I was taught to be good. Because God's watching now. My mom mom broke that mold because my mom told me something that I don't think a lot of Christian parents do. My Mom said David several times. She mentioned me that God was watching watching. God was going to judge me and I was going to have a judgment day. In my whole life would play back in front of me with God watching and I will be held accountable and all of those fears. Were still instilled in me. Yeah but I got a little bit older. I remember her telling me David. Don't just do good because you won't because you don't want to get caught do good because because it's the good thing to do. That was the most basic loving humanistic principal. My mom ever gave me and that breaking out from our religion I think is what helped me but for you to say that Christians and atheists are teaching their kids the same things I say absolutely not. We are teaching our kids to be skeptical. Google and to analyze myth for what it is and how to think analytically. How to think skeptically about multiple things? Christians is are teaching their kids what to believe. This is what God did. He created it in six days. This is how God wants you to behave. This is how you know. If you feel this sway your broken. God's mad at you stop feeling that urge. That's not realistic. That's not based in science. The atheist teaches our kids science. Bheith based methods kids of instincts and biology in everything that we possibly can everything that we possibly can about the world so I think the way Christian atheist racer kids are completely different. I have to disagree with you. You made a statement you said. They teach their kids how to think not what to think. I do the same game with the kids on teaching. There's a there's a scripture in the Bible study to show yourself approved I consistently pushed that study show to show what you believe you have to believe in. I what I preach to you is not going to get you into heaven. Would I appreciate. You is not what you have to immediately take. It is true you need to study it out for yourself. You need to find your own personal revelation of Jesus Christ you need to find your own personal relation revelation of the Bible without on your own personal experience your own personal revelation. It absolutely means nothing John so I disagree in Clark quote at Verse Again. Show yourself approved. Study to show yourself approved. Yeah you know what that sounds like to me. That sounds like it's encouraging confirmation information bias. It says study to prove what you already believe is true. The atheist teaches their kid. Studied to see if what you believe is true or not. Study to see if you can falsify your belief. That's not what the Bible Teaching John. The Bible isn't saying study this to find find out if it's true or not it says study to show yourself approved meaning go seek evidence that already agrees with your preconceived notion. That's a confirmation mm bias and I do not teach my kid that no not in not in context. It doesn't mean that because it it doesn't say study the Bible to show yourself approved religiously. It's a study to show yourself approved and that can be attributed to all education that can be attributed to everything it does not reference that study that form the best of New Testament but the point of an investigation. The point of the point of a scientific inquiry or investigation should not be to prove yourself yourself right. It should be an unbiased. Look at truth to determine whether you're right or wrong meaning something can't even be. We addressed by science unless it has some form of falsify ability if there's no way to prove it wrong science really doesn't even want to deal with it. That's why there's not a ton of research on telepathic powers or ghosts or you know in in any of these things that have been. Your pet may be healthy but isn't well at loyal companion. 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At one of our fifty-five loyal companion stores or go online loyal companion dot COM debunked by James Randi over the last seven hundred fifty three years. It's this idea that that anybody who makes a claim that that we can't really test we don't deal with it but that line study to show yourself approved sure. Sounds like study to prove that. You're already already right in what you believe. And when you couple that with proverbs five which says lean not on your own understanding. I mean. It's kind of saying and read the Bible because what God is already telling you is true is true and you need to believe that so study. More of God's word to show that you're approved in what you already believe and that's not teaching skepticism. John you're taking this like I said kind of in the beginning I said had straight off the bat. We don't teach kids the same thing. Theologically based off what we believe. That wasn't what I was referring to in terms of when I asked you the question What are the similarities in between between what atheist teaches in what I'm teaching or a Christian teach? Well yeah a big part of the is teaching I'm teaching love that at its core. That's that's what I'm teaching. I'm saying you need to love everyone. You need to love your neighbor you need to love your parents. You need to love the homosexual. You need to love the enemy. The person that kicks you when you're down. You need to love them too. So at the core of what I'm teaching is love. And I think in terms of being a humanist you can agree with that teaching of love now like I said my grandma. My Foundation of that is found in the word of God yes and I use that but ultimately what am I teaching I am ultimately teaching love. Do you believe that a Christian should teach love the same way not based on the the Bible but teach love the same way that you should love everyone no matter what do you agree with that. No I don't think you should love everyone no matter what yeah. I don't think there's I think there's several people who don't deserve love that being a humanist is not just accepting accepting any and all human beings regardless of how horrible they are. There are people with disgusting behaviors. That just WANNA see the world burn that that I would never say I love that person. Right I. I wouldn't advocate. Well I guess it depends on how you would define love love and then we could be here for four and a half hours just talking about and again every time we anytime you speak in absolutes. My brain automatically goes to anomalies disprove that absolute. I'm not a fan of absolutes so I don't want to get caught up in that but for the most part yes teaching your kid to be good to other people in. I love humanity right on board with that but I think the core of the core of the core the core of wyan atheist teaches. That is is because we're all we have is other human beings. The core of why a Christian teaches that is because God said so. Okay so here here is the other side of it Based off your statement it. It's kind of like in our last debate. Where you said it may be true for you right or or we were talking about goodness and you say got mad then good for you? That may be true for you that you do not teach your child what to think but that is not the case for every atheist. I have Without giving names I have someone I know specifically that they are eightieths. They they they they they have no beliefs and what they would do is they would actually their kids. Okay they would come to church and these. These kids were given a Bible and this man would take their Bible from them and burn and throw it away and get rid of it. Wouldn't you say that is a form of indoctrination and like I said they may not be true for you. But to say that eighty s do not indoctrinate in terms of Sh- telling their children or or telling the people that they're teaching what to believe. I completely can disagree with that on personal experience. Well John John. This is going to be the danger if we're if we're if we're teetering back and forth between an overall concept and ideology and worldview versus anecdotal examples of anomalies homilies. There's GonNa be both sides of that. You're GONNA have Christian. I know Christians who when when a when their child says is mom is there a god she says. I don't know what you think. And that's really an atheist answer for the most part. That's how most atheist talked to our kids. Most Christians would not most colleges ages have course God is real and let me put you in Bible study immediately so Satan doesn't take over your black little soul That's part of the part of the issue there But you're talking about one in total example of an atheist burning a Bible okay. It is founded on the Christian side it including it. But they're gonNA waste but John I don't WanNa waste a lot of time on this show is about Bible contradictions. And I want to get into that but but just to briefly answer you. Indoctrination means teaching your kid that there is only one way to live and all other ways are wrong. Now that atheist that you're talking about which by the way I've literally met thousands of atheists. I don't personally know a single one who has little Bible on fire that sound like such an extreme most of them. Keep them in. Read them to prove Christians wrong using their own book. Why would we burn evidence against your belief being true? I don't this doesn't make any sense to me. This sounds like something really quick. When I said burn the Bible I I was not giving a literal? That was that was a figure of speech. I I was not saying literally. Burn it you throw it away. They would get rid of it. When I I wasn't talking? Literal Fire clarified okay. Well Look John. I've I've approached Christians before at a church who knew I was an atheist. I and I've held up the Bible and I've said can I go into that room. Where their kids were? I'll say can I go into that room and just read them scriptures from this book not a single Christian ever has allowed me to read the Bible to their kids. Why do you think that that is because there is stuff in that Bible that they do not want their kids to read children's bibles often leave out the grotesque things that God did the story of Second Kings where these two bears ripped forty two kids apart because they call Elijah Bald head? That's not in the Children's Bible like that. You know them literally ripping kids apart that that's not going to be in the Children's Bible so clearly. Christians also have a bias about letting their kids be exposed to certain acts of violence in the Bible right so one could make the argument that one can make the argument that this atheist doesn't want his kids exposed to a book that he feels like had a negative impact in his life and as their parent he could do that. And I'll even add. He can do that. And it still not indoctrination because there's a difference John in telling your kid that this world view is really bad but that other world views use might be OK meaning if you teach your kids. There's only one way to think this is the way to do it. This is the belief that's true in anybody else's wrong that is indoctrination and that's what. Christianity teaches kids. An atheist might say Christianity is is really poisonous. Islam is really poisonous but all of these native American beliefs all of these Buddhist beliefs. All of this spirituality in paganism paganism and wiccan could be possible. It's all open to you for you to decide but I do want you to know that I find this one particularly poisoning. I don't want you to read this one book that's not under the definition of indoctrination. It doesn't he's not withholding them to just one belief because he points out one. That's really bad Christianity. Janet does the opposite Christianity. Says there's one true God Jesus his son Jesus died for your sin so that you may enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And if you don't believe this yes you are going to burn and Health Return Ity. Islam is wrong. Hinduism is wrong. Native Americans are wrong. Atheists are wrong. That is indoctrinated John but by doing that he's still teaching his child what to think not how to think not necessarily to make their own three not allowing them to make their own free rejoice and no they believe in what they want John. I just established that. That's not what I did though John. Removing one option doesn't prevent all the others him saying one option of Christianity is bad doesn't mean the kid can't grow up to be Buddhist so that kids bode ill I agree. It's definitely based off their choice but trying to get rid of the option of even Christianity is still saying what to think no. It's it's saying you can't. I do not want you to think this I do not want you to believe this. This is off the table for you as far as I'm concerned as your parents Rock but that's not teaching a child what to think no because one could make the same argument that you're doing that with with pro. LGBT stuff. I mean would you let your kids sit down and read a book that had a gay couple in it. When he's five years old to be quite honest we wouldn't let our our our our children read about the history of America? Ju just because these are not things that kids understand yet war. Okay all right stop right there. That's it maybe. He just wants his kid to be twelve or thirteen years old before it gets into their head that God is damning people to eternity in Sikkim plagues on on people and making people's bowels fall out of them and You know allowing bears to rip kids into pieces. Maybe he just goes. That's not for my eight year old Will we'll deal with that when you're fourteen. He has every right in the world to do that. And that's not telling the kid what to think. I'M NOT GONNA keep hammering the same point on over and over I think of made my point. Removing one option Shen is an indoctrination John but Christianity Christianity removes all other options and says Christianity is the only answer. Please tell me you understand the difference between the two. Yes I do and just to make one final statement on this Not Having to do with the example I gave but in terms of what I am teaching my students. That's like I said foundationally twelve but I'm teaching. I'm teaching them everything that you would teach your kids not to don't don't steal. Don't lie if you get married. Stay faithful if you have kids train. 'em right teach them to be good. Teach them to help teach them to be certain servings and so of other people don't always take for yourself. That's what I'm reaching the youth pastor. That's what I'm teaching my kids. So when I get in the patron section I see people say. Oh you're you're you're you're you're teaching them all these things and you're you're indoctrinating them now. In terms of belief in terms of belief like all agree with it in terms of theological elements. Let's put in terms of what I am teaching them though the foundation be the Bible. Would I'm building on. That foundation is basic human decency. Okay I I think though that the foundation from which that comes is so important to the execution of those behaviors and I think if a kid is taught over and over to be good. Because somebody's watching. That is ultimately bad for their character as they get older under. I've always taught my daughter To be respectful and to be good because that person is another human being and you don't know what they've gone through that to me is much more powerful than God's watching and this is all gonNa be played back for you someday. It's very threatening. It's very much under duress. And by the way Teaching your kid and I saw this in one of the comments on Patriot on teaching your kids And they they got into the freewheel stuff a little bit. You know that if you don't believe believe what I'm telling you that I believe is true. You're going to burn in Hell Fraternity. One could argue that. That's not really free will because you're under duress and the analogy of us on the show before is I walk up to you and hand you the keys to my brand new car and I go. Hey John you can take the car. It's completely yours. Total free choice. You can just have it but I want you to know there is a bomb attached to the bottom of it and if you decide to drive off in it I'm GonNa push this little button on this remote and it's GonNa Explode. Do you have free will technically. Yeah I guess you could be suicidal and go get in the car and know that you're going to be blown to pieces in about twelve seconds But who's going to make that decision under the level of threat right if I flip that around and go. Here's the keys at his car and you go. I don't I don't want that car and pull out a nine millimeter and stick it to your forehead and I go take this car or I'm going to kill you right now. You'RE GONNA turn around and get in that car on and if you get in that car I look. He made a free. He made a total decision. He Muslim love my car. He loves my car so much. So this idea that we teach children from a very young age age that they are constantly under the threat of eternal damnation. And burning in Hell I think is child abuse. John I think it is abusive to teach children it is it is emotionally and psychologically abusive to induce. Psychosis isn't a child. By telling them there are evil demonic spirits interacting in their lives and they have to be afraid of these things they have to connect with God. These things are going to attack them in an afterlife if they don't do what they're told. This is very destructive behavior. It's very destructive to teach a child that and that's where people start getting a little where this isn't just a discussion anymore. They get a little irritated when they hear that kids are being taught they're going to burn for eternity if if they don't do what this God wants them to do. That's that's psychologically damaging to children. An atheist doesn't teach their children. There's some sort of big form of duress or big threat of fire or threat of explosion in exchange for bad behavior. That's the biggest difference. I gotcha well I if if you want a much you WanNa keep moving on this one. We can We can get into the foundation of what I'm talking about Biblical contradiction okay. Let's do it. Let's get into the Bible contradictions. And here's what I'm GONNA do. I'm GonNa Start with what we left on the last show which is does God tempt man and the big push there was James one thirteen says God does not tim to man yet. The tree of knowledge of evil the tree of good and evil the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden It's very tempting to man. I'm going to start there but I don't want your answer just yet. Here's what I'm GONNA do. We're GONNA take a very short short break and when we come back. John is going to answer the First Bible contradiction. James one thirteen does God tempt man or does he not remember this. Entire conversation can be heard without commercial interruptions at Patriotair Dot com slash David C smalley more dogma debate right after this for the lowest rates on the market for personal loans under ten K with no early repayment fees and eligibility approval in seconds try alone. That's fast unfair from on post money maybe for sprucing up the back garden upgrading. The wheels or the big family holiday. Whatever it's for with on plus money you know you're getting the lowest rate on the market for loans under ten K search on bus twenty loans to apply online or visit your local post office criteria terms and conditions apply new applications info correct as a first of all was twenty nineteen source see? PC humblest axes credit intermediary on Pavan card duck on post trading money as authorized as credit into meteoroid. CPI data trading card is regulated by the Central Bank. Lorient this week in the big saver. We've got something amazing that costs absolutely nothing listening. How can that help me save a here? You ask well listening. Could save a young person you know from worry and distress might be a family member a friend or even a young colleague. Look we know time can get so for young people but we also know that having someone on in their lives who really listens can make a difference. It's like this little supports. Jigsaw and Jigsaw supports us all by helping to find ways to really listen and be the one good adults Hilton. Young People's lives go on. Be a big saver. It will cost you nothing. See Little Dudley forward slash one good wrote for more legal more for youth. Don't worry whether you're in the righteous rate for the screeching left. You'll find something in this show to complain about. At least it's not hill. Welcome back to dog with a bait so glad you're still with us a can't wait for that answer from pastor. John I know a couple of weeks ago he was he was really caught up on it. 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If you don't mind before you answer your question could you read James One thirteen force. I'm sorry I didn't give you a chance to prep that But if you have a known right here perfect I figured you would if you would just read James One verse fourteen as well sure. Okay let no one say when he is tempted. I'm being tempted by God for God cannot. I'll be tempted by evil. And he himself does not tempt anyone but each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own. Must Okay all right. So what's your answer to this then because God didn't half the stick that tree in the middle of garden in the middle of the garden. Pardon but he he did. We had a win a perfect paradise. Everything's great. He put this one tree that looked like it was the most delicious looking fruit in the entire garden. It was very attractive to the eye. They were hungry. Why do you think God would do that? So the answer is actually found in the word that you even used perfection. God created everything. Good in the garden this. This there isn't We had a conversation about one point in God didn't put this wretched looking leafless tree the and the garden and off of its hanging just like a prune and he says don't eat it when God made everything he called it good everything even the tree of Knowledge Goodn- even hell but though even though it was made good hell hell not made for us first off hell was not created for us. Nobody said it's a part of creation. Right he made hell the same time we made everything else and then he called everything. Good so God believes Hell is good hell has to do with torment for the devil. So yes I in turn in terms of being an imprisonment for your greatest adversary. They've that would be a good thing whether we like. I'm sorry I'm sorry rejoice. I'm sorry I'm sorry. I'm confused by the timeline. Here did did did God have Satan or Lucifer at the time in heaven before he created Earth from what we believe the illogically. Yes okay so there was this other realm of heaven even when Earth did not exist. Yes and so there were there were already angels and there was already in in in Lucifer was already an angel in Lucifer turned against God and then God kicked him out of Heaven Right and Ben and banished him to hell which God had already created but it was empty. No he did not banish them to hell yet. Okay where really banish him to The the Earth the Bible says there is this formless empty and darkness was over the surface of the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And that that's where we enter into the story of creation but But but but but theological debate in whether or not okay so you John It. It just caught up on it but it matters for everything. We're about to talk about so stick with me here now first of all if it let me just give this explanation so that people know why I'm sticking to this. If if the timeline is earth did did not exist. And there's this realm of heaven and a loose an angel name Lucifer and then that that Angel Oh turns against God and then gets banished. The first question is where did he go. The second question question is because if he didn't if there was no earth there was doesn't make any sense for him to have to go to Earth when he got banished so it's confusing as to where Lucifer was banished. To and the second question is if Lucifer turned against God we already have evil in the world. We already have someone falling into transgression. So when the Bible later says eve I fell into transgression. Which is why women have to have a birth pains and everything everything else that exists? It's terrible it's all the woman's fault and we see through. We see throughout the Bible. Women are constantly blamed for that. She must be submissive to her husband. Because eve I fell into transgression and then Adam follow her because of women that we ended up in this situation women are blamed for all of it but Lucifer Lucifer. I fell into transgression and Lucifer was a Not to anthropomorphized. But he's obviously a male angel right so Lucifer. I fell into transgression. So according to that men should have to have very painful childbirth. So it's and also this whole idea of free will and evil things happening. There was already a serpent opened crawling around on this planet. Trying to trick eve or deceive eve if you will but the servant never actually lied. Servant told told the truth. God is the one who lied in that. But we'll get into that in a second because we're giving the creation story but from this perspective Eve ate from the tree wouldn't have even mattered because evil was already on the presence of the Earth God had already banished Lucifer to earth and he was here to help deceive even trick her into eating the fruit in the first place so free will already been established someone had already turned against God God someone had made a negative choice against God and then God plants the tree in the middle of the garden to tempt them to see what they're going to do. This evil serpent comes over and goes as yet do it do it do it do it do it. And then she makes a bad decision to eat it so before the fruit is ever eaten John. Multiple bad things are happening happening in heaven and earth. So it doesn't I'm trying to. I'm trying to follow your train of thought you can you. Can you clarify. Let me exactly what you're asking. I'm saying John that it's Eve's fault take that Lucifer show Lucifer chose to be bad against God allegedly before evil could have existed Lucifer. Was I falling into transgression by choosing against God and by getting kicked out. And then there's this little evil serpent slithering around Trying to talk eve into being bad and that in itself is manipulation relation so that would be considered bad because they're trying to get them to choose against God and then God puts the tree there to tempt her to test her to see if she is GonNa do it because he could have just not put the tree there and then when she does finally eat of it well that in itself is a bad decision and if she was made perfect to begin again with she wouldn't have chosen against God but she chose to go and break God's rule so before she actually bites the fruit the decision the sin if you will has already been committed because she decided to do it before she ate it so now we have Lucifer turning against God we have this evil serpent slithering around trying to manipulate people. We have this tree sitting here and then her decision to bite the fruit all before the fruit is ever bitten so four. At least I. Four bad things happened in the name of evil before the fruit was eaten yet when she finally finally eats the fruit. The Bible says the woman. I fell into transgression bringing evil into the world but in Isaiah Zia forty-five seven. We're told that God creates evil or calamity depending on your version. So I'm just wondering you to address this issue that evil had already existed before eve ever ate the fruit so my answer to that is just where there is good. There is evil. Oh you can't have one without the other so there's evil in heaven created when there's evil in Heaven Rhino I. I couldn't hear you. I'm sorry there's evil in heaven right now. Now you said where there's good there's evil John. Yes there's good in terms of the context next of what we're talking about in creation. No no no no no no no if if heaven has good right now and no evil then it's possible for that to happen on Earth then your statement where there's good there's evil is no. It's not logical. It's not always there. You don't always have to have good where there's evil in the context of the conversation dealing with creation dealing with eve dealing in with the serpent dealing with Lucifer's will choke to become prideful in and get thrown out of heaven. There was there was even represented in heaven then but there is not evil now know in terms of our earth where there is free. Will there's going to be those two options. Someone can be really. Hey good or someone can be really bad. Okay all right so did eve bring evil into the world or or no yes. Sorry I had to think about it for just a second. But how can you say say that Eve brought evil into the world when Lucifer before Eve and turned against God. Okay now I understand your question all right so in terms of Lucifer. The opportunity for evil existed assisted one hundred percent Lucifer Josie in terms of humanity. Something completely different happened in terms of Adam and eve when God created them it will. It was a perfect creation but evil is now entered the cosmos evil is now enter. I it is now a possibility which is why God had to put the tree there in the first place. That's why the tree had to be in the gardens because evil was already represented through the choice that Lucifer may okay. Hold on right there sir. Because you did answer one of my questions and now I understand where you're coming from. It's not that evil entered the world. It's that evil all entered mankind when you ate the fruit so I get that make sense. Check that off great explanation still Kinda a silly to me fairy tale land talking but I understand from that perspective. What you're getting at now? Even existed I apologize. I didn't I was trying. I understand what you're asking that up a little. I apologize on that. But that wasn't my intent. I wasn't trying to not answer you. I was just trying to figure out exactly exactly what I get. Here's the thing John. Here's the thing though John. We're almost an hour into this show. And we're only on the first contradiction so we were regatta. We can't do this this but this one is really important because it leads into the so I get I get what you're saying that it entered mankind right but when you fuck but when you follow that up and this is a an issue I haven't I want to listeners to to to grab hold of this moment because this happens a lot of times times conversations with with Christian family members they just will sometimes blow past a statement so confidently and there's never thought given to what John said. I'm just GonNa talk to the listener for a second with John. Just said was he made a good point that evil entered mankind when eve eight it okay fine. And then he goes just very briefly he just goes evil already existed in the cosmos. God had to put the tree there and then he just kept on talking skirt weight. Stop them when they say that. That makes no sense to me John. Because God what is in charge when you put prerequisites on God you take away his power. I can't can't just snap in. My oil is changed. I can't think about my oil being changed it changed. I have to get tools. I need those tools in order to screw the gas cap off in order to release the oil from the oil pan I have to have prerequisites because I'm not all powerful when you start to say things like evil already existed so God had to blank. You're saying God can't can't do something which goes back to the whole reason we met. Can God lift a rock to big firms. This was the whole point of our last conversation. Is that that analogy. Isn't silly. It proves the impossibility of an all-powerful being existing. And this is one of those things that you just slip right past me. Please tell me y you believe that because even exist in the World God had to tempt Adam and eve with this fruit he could have just left the fruit out of it. Because you know what John. I'm sorry I'm talking a lot but you know what Satan or Lucifer in heaven didn't have a tree. He he knew God existed and didn't have a tree to eat from yet still chose against God so the logic doesn't follow that Eve eve and Adam must have had some sort of tree to choose against God they could have just told him to piss off like Lucifer did so. Tell me again why it was necessary. And don't just state that it had to happen. Please explain why logically. God had to put this tree in in the Perfect Garden of Eden to tempt eve to see if she would do evil stuff. Okay so in that. The tree isn't really really the point point. We're trying to force here. It's not really what we're trying to make an impact on the point is free will and this goes back through our our last debate. The point is free. Will there had to be an opportunity to give in to free will and n James the very verse that we're talking about here. But each one is tempted when he carried away and enticed by his own lust. This is what's happening with the tree. This is what's happening with eve. This is what's going. On through her mind she was enticed to it to be enticed is not sent to be tempted is not sin to fall into the temptation. That is worth thin. Enters the mix so when she was enticed by her own lust. Having to do with this tree this would be option. That God shows for The the idea of free will you can't like I said you can't have good without evil in terms of talking about humanity in terms of talking about the creation. God put the tree in. It was the standard. There was one standard for evil one. It was disobedience. He wanted to see our our our our my creations go into a baby and so eve ate of the tree. and that's the disobedience. The only thing that was around in the garden and in this perfection was disobedience to direct word from God right brace and I typically will be enemy drive right so so tempted her he puts. That's not that's not him tempting that's her being enticed by her own lush. That's her being anti but she wouldn't have been but she wouldn't have been enticed if the fruit didn't look looks so delicious. God made the fruit look delicious on purpose to test her to see if she would disobey everything was delicious. Yeah that's that's that doesn't answer the question who going in the circle here in terms of Godmen everything good there. It wasn't and a wrinkly piece of fruit. Everything looked delicious. What was really what was really enticing? Her is the fact back of what the tree forgive her. But I'm GonNa read this is this is genesis three. I'm just got my Bible. Open Genesis three. This is after the creation has after in it already had mentioned in Genesis two. I know that that that That God put the tree of life in the middle and the tree of knowledge of good and evil genesis. Three says this now. The serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals. The Lord God had made he said to the woman. Did God really say you must not eat from the tree in the garden. I guess this hell let me let me go back to genesis tune in the end Talks about yeah just as we're not supposed either. Because God says in Genesis Two fifteen the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it and the Lord God commanded the man. You are free free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for when you eat from it you will certainly die quite a minute. I'm just something you actually said in the last debate you referenced that it said When you die that day and and that's actually correct? It says win you eat from it. You will certainly die when you eat from it. You will die died that implies that it happens in the same moment hold on let me let me stay on track here verse. Eighteen says the Lord. God said it's not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper oprah suitable. Your pet may be healthy but isn't well at loyal companion. We believe there's five pillars of pet wellness. It's not just about what they eat. or how much they run. It's about about creating an environment where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met the five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship and purpose when all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more. visit us at one of our fifty companion stores or go online at loyal companion dot com. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad News is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mow the lawn and give anybody noticed demote the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through through progressive and save on your car insurance which of course we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all stages situations will for him now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them. And whatever the man called each living creature that was its name so the man gave names to all the livestock the birds in the sky and all the wild animals but for Adam no suitable helper was found so the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep and while he was sleeping he took one of the man's ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then Lord God made a woman from the rib he taken out of the man he brought her to the man. The man said this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called called woman for she was taken out of man. So here we have Adam naming woman like he named all the other animals Sorry that is why a man leaves his father and mother and his united to his wife and they become one flesh adamant his wife were both naked and they felt no shame Now we get into genesis three now the problem. I have already with this. If you pay close attention to God never told Eve Steve not to eat from the fruit. He told Adam that before eve existed. Okay let's just be clear about that. Sounds a little unfair air. He told Adam the rule we get into genesis three. The serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals. The Lord God had made he said to the woman and did he said to the woman. Did God really say you must not eat from the tree in the garden the woman replied to the serpent. We may eat the fruit from the trees in the garden. But God did say you must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden and you must not touch it or you will die in the serpent said you will certainly not die for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened in. You will be like God knowing good and evil evil. We keep going back to knowledge. Keep in mind John at anytime during this God could have put a a little child in the garden and said don't kill that thing and if they chose to become murderers that could have been like. Okay you guys are going to be bad now. I'M GONNA rain rain down. You know damnation on your faces. It was just that a fruit was tasty looking. That's that's it's under. She committed some horrific. They it's not like they were like don't don't rape each other and then God shows up and Adams hands are tied up. And he's being forced to do things when God eve is terrible like they didn't you see what I'm saying. She didn't like Shit and smash a bunch of innocent animal to death. She didn't do anything horrific anyway at its foundation. Like I said it's not it's not about the fruit. It's about disobedience. Was told an idiot though keyboard there when God gave the command atom but we know based off the verse you just read. That Adam communicated the rule not because she's the one who quoted it to the surface right so she was really trusting Adam and believing him and maybe that's the problem. Here women have trusted rested men for too long anyway man he can make men can definitely make bad decisions. I have a theory. I have a definitive theory about What's happening here at the Garden of Eden? And if you actually scroll down and this this promise you this is definitely needed in this podcast. So it goes down it says Certain said to the woman you surely not die for. God knows that end of the day you abby open. You'll be like God knowing get an even when the woman saw this group is good and and not even the laptops off. Stop John John John. That's the part I was about to read and I WANNA be very methodical about it. I don't want you to blast through it at supersonic speed. Can you give me a second looking looking for something specific. Okay civic okay so I just wanted to say this. The fact that they were both naked the Bible actually says Adam was with her at the tree. My theory is that the the reason. Adam didn't like stop her. She was just mesmerized by the beauty of Her naked body that. That's that's my thought. So I wasn't I wasn't making a theological point. I was making a joke and when eve wanted to eat eat from the fruit Adam said Damn fine yes right here in genesis is what it says. What what do you what do you have? Yeah yeah the. DSP is definitely inspired inspired by Satan. No here we go. Okay here we go so we got you say this we got halfway there. I'm okay with it but it's true Okay you will certainly not die The serpent said to the woman for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil so this is disobedience but it's disobedience this obedience in the search for knowledge that's the underlying thing here. I think this is a much bigger picture of teaching. People do. Do not seek knowledge or it will have terrible results. Lean not on your own understanding trust in the Lord God this is creating sheep. That's it's all it is making people not think for themselves not seek knowledge outside of what they're told by authority and to keep people in line like Napoleon Bonaparte said Ed religion is great stuff keeping common people quiet and I think people do this with kids all the time because this is one of the First Bible stories. We are taught as Christian children her when the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye in also desirable for gaining wisdom. She took some an aide. It she gave some to her husband. who was with her and he ate it then? The eyes of both of them were opened and they realized realized they were naked so they sowed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves right there in Genesis. Three three six and three seven. That's where everything happens. Eve saw that. The fruit of the tree was good for food pleasing pleasing to the eye desirable for gaining wisdom. Listen something being pleasing to the eye good for food and gaining wisdom those are basic biological human instincts that got us here from an evolutionary perspective. Most animals will not eat food. That's really bad for them. Sure dogs are different. We made them they're GMO's essentially angelique but animals out nature like they're they're not eating poisonous plants and then vomiting and dying. They stay they could tell by colors they could tell by smells what's good and what's bad and if I were to spray some clorox bleach on your cheeseburger bigger. You're going to get it within three inches of your nose and throw it down and be like I'm not ingesting that smell we have a basic biological instinct to know what's good for our bodies so this is just an overlying story of. Don't don't trust your instincts. Don't seek wisdom. Don't go after things that are good food. Do what God says this is a mind control indoctrination tool of telling the people that what you feel is right is probably bad. Open Your Bible to see how to behave. All she did was trying to have some good food that would also bring her wisdom. We do that all the time when we take fish oils when we eat salmon when we have Sushi. It's good for the brain it's delicious and it's it's it's pleasing to the eye. She didn't do anything horrifically wrong. Other than God told her not to. So you know what back to this contradiction talk that we have to stay focused on when James one thirteen says God does not tempt man or he has never tempt anyone. You have to admit John that when God put this delicious looking fruit in that garden there is no other purpose but to tempt eve and see if she's going to disobey I I respectfully disagree with that because it comes back to we temp. We are tempted. That if not God doing it the temptations that we take now in this reality that we're living it it's not God bringing those temptations along where there is good there is hold on. Uh who who put the tree them. Dr Who put the tree. They're God okay. He didn't have to. Why did not put the tree? Their free will what to give the toys they're like. I said there was one law. Disobedience as we clarified provide the tree was there. They already had free. Will which always a free will know they already had free will not to choose a reject. Sure they could have in what way the same way Lucifer did in heaven without a tree. They could have said This is our garden. Now we're going to do whatever we want. They started ripping plants out of the ground. Saying we'RE NOT GONNA eat garbage. They could have thrown their middle fingers up. They could have thrown their middle fingers up to God and said you're not our boss. We're not why we refuse to mate and have children. Eve could have strangled Adam to death in his sleep sleep. Adam could have beaten eve in the first recorded case of spousal abuse. He could have murdered eve he she could have broken his ankle title. She could broken a stick off of a tree and whacked him in the head with it. That doesn't that doesn't that doesn't change the fact they didn't even know they were naked. Let alone any of those things that you named. How do you know that I know I know I know? It says that. They didn't know they were naked. But you're saying did not have knowledge knowledge of evil that there was no knowledge of evil. That's the whole point of. How can she be held accountable for disobeying because that is the only requirement God laid out? But she didn't have knowledge of evil. So how did she know she was disobeying because she was going against what God told her but she didn't have knowledge of image file. Even a child knows that but she didn't have knowledge of evil. So how can you hold her accountable for disobeying God odd. Because there's nobody out there that is taking a child who doesn't understand disobedience and doesn't understand evil and and hold them accountable for breaking a rule if the child knows they're doing bad yes there's usually consequences but what for example if a two year old looks you right in the eye and then pulls the dog's tail and it screams and you say no don't do that and it grabs dogs tell again and pulls it again right. The kid knows it's doing something it's not supposed to do. But if the KID Walks up sticks your taxes in his mouth in ruins a document or takes your taxes in throws it out of a window. He he doesn't understand what he's doing. He doesn't know the level of evil he's causing because he doesn't know evil right. It doesn't know taxes so I agree with you. No idea the level of evil that they were causing right but if a if a if a seventeen year old grab your taxes and threw them out the window. He knows exactly what he's doing but eve was in this child like state of not even knowing evil so how if she didn't know evil yet how would it have been possible for her to create the thought. I'm going to disobey the the the idea of disobedience. I would not be in there if she didn't know evil John that's why the serpent whether they're the surf the one that caused confusion. Not Eve made the decision. You've made the choice but the serpent's who caused confusion that's why he's in. This story always talked about right now. Is God Adam and Eve. We haven't mentioned the surface. The serpent was the agent of confusion in this in fact he confused her all throughout it from misquoting God too tempting in her even further her statement that she said is what Adam told her from the fruit of the trees in the garden. We eat from the fruit of the tree. It which is in the middle of the garden goddess said you shall not eat from it or touch it or you will die right there that is understanding of basic command right that is not an understanding of evil right so if she writes in in that moment she does not understand evil and God gave her a command so if she was truly perfect she would not dont have made the bad decision to believe the serpent over God she would have obeyed God one hundred percent which means when she you did decide to disobey she was already evil. She was already doing bad things before she ate the fruit. I heavily disagree. How can you get conversation with Jesus where we and some of the people in the comments? actually on Patriots made this reference that the reason I compared even Jesus is because there's a reason Jesus was called the second Adam As found in scripture he was perfect Adam was perfect. Adam fell eve fell l.. Temptation the fact that they were enticed by their own lust and the serpent was the agent of confusion that push them just a little bit further over the edge now. Oh you have. Jesus represented in the New Testament as the second Adam. And he's tempted in the exact same way by the exact same temperature and refuses in every away all right. He was tempted for forty days. Forty Nights John. Why why do you keep saying John? What do you say tempted by? Lust lust is a is a sexual desire. She just wanted wisdom and food. That's not it's not bad and I don't want any and if you teach your kids in your as a youth pastor if you're teaching your kids that seeking wisdom and food is lustful. I've a major problem of you being a youth pastor but that's what this Bible is teaching and that's what you keep calling it. She was tempted by her own own. Lust she was not tempted by lust. John she was tempted by God because God tested her free will. Oh by putting a tree in there making the food good look pleasing to the eye and for her to gain wisdom. That's all she was trying to do. And what is wrong with the woman seeking desirable food and in wisdom. There is nothing wrong with that so for God to say. Don't seek wisdom in eat good food but here's a tree that has exactly both of those things and it's right in the middle of garden within your reach. That is God tempting her John. How was it not tempting her I? It's not because and when when you're defining the last year you're you're defining it sexually I it's not defined sexually in this context whatsoever eight. That's what the word lost me. Lots of no. I'm sorry I'm sorry. Look up the word lost it is only having to do with a strong sexual desire. That's what the definition is. I don't know definition of lust. That is not about attraction action or sex. I just found one here. It's Kinda deep but it says lust could be a psychological force producing intense wanting or longing for an ob or circumstance fulfilling with emotion. Okay so there. There's there's a definite you're giving English definition what I do is I want to go back to. I guess someone could lust after power. I suppose or lust for money. Yeah I guess you could use it. So so what does she must inordinate ordinate desire lush. Okay so what what does she lusting after. Exactly Knowledge Infinite Wisdom. I don't I don't know that someone would say lusting resting for wisdom. That just doesn't seem like the right. Context used the word other than to make her sound worse than she was. Which I think is what you're trying to do but what what exactly do you believe? She was lusting after the fruit. That that's that's the whole point of it. Why is that bad eh? She wanted food and wisdom was that. Why is it so bad quite the presents disobedience to the one command God gay right and why did she have the opportunity opportunity to disobey? It didn't have to be a fruit but it could have been anything in terms of what you're saying so my question. My question is why. Why did what was your question is why did she have the opportunity to disobey them because God putting the tree there to tempt her it was to a test her obedience that's it? She's the one who approached. The three three didn't uproot itself and go to her but it didn't have to exist. Assist God God put the tree. They're God could have not put the tree there. You Listen Listen John John I I could I could put a law. I could buy a bunch of beer and unsticking the fridge and then tell my daughter. Hey I'm going to go. Do Stand up comedy show. I'm going to be gone all night. I'm going to get a hotel in Hollywood and I'm not coming back till tomorrow. Don't drink that beer. And then I could come home and see that the beer has been consumed and she would be tons of trouble trouble and she would have made the bad decision. It would be on her for making the wrong decision to drink alcohol but I would have to admit that attempted her that I put the beer there to test her obedience. I don't know why it's hard for you to just go. Yeah totally tested her and she failed. Okay we can move on but I would admit yes. I bought the beer. I had the bureau. You know what I could do if I don't want her to drink not make it so damn accessible. I could just not have beer in my house. And then if she goes out of her way to create other your pet may be healthy but isn't well loyal companion. We believe they're five pillars of pet wellness. It's not just about what they eat or how much they run. It's about creating an environment where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met. The five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship. An purpose when all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more visit us at one of our fifty five loyal companion stores or go online and loyal companion dot com. Your pet may be healthy but isn't well at loyal companion. We believe there are five pillars of pet wellness. It's not just about what they eat. or how much they run. It's about creating an environment where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met. The five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship and purpose. When all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more visit us at one of our fifty five loyal companion stores or go online loyal companion in dot com patients where she could receive alcohol? That's different. I didn't tempt her and she still made a bad decision. But if I had done it the first way I would not be denying that I tempted her. Because that's exactly what God did. He tested her will and James one thirteen. It says God is not tempted did anyone. It's command is not temptation you telling her not based off your own analogy telling her not to do something. That's not temptation and that's a command. You're completely missed defining terms here. No no no no no no no no no hold on John. I'm not mystifying anything. You're misunderstanding standing me. The order to not drink. The beer is not the temptation the buying the beer and having it in the house in the first place is the temptation. God God telling Eve. Don't eat from. The tree is not the temptation I never said that but God putting three God putting the tree in the garden. Is Tim Tation. He didn't have to make. That tree would be having the same conversation even if it wasn't a tree though that's the thing in in terms of your view it could've been Like you even said Hey. Don't kick the cute little puppy in the head but we'd still be having the same conversation visit command that she went and kicked the puppy in the head then same exact result no humidity no absolutely not no no no no no. And here's why you're wrong buddy. The puppy the whole purpose of the puppy would have been companionship. I want you to take care of this thing. I want you to love. This thing. Cuddle with his cute thing and feed it. It has another purpose right if she would have broken a stick off of a branch and beat Adam to death with it. I wouldn't say well God tempted by putting all these sticks everywhere. No because those trees were sustenance for Humanity Mandy. They had to be there in order for the fruit to form in order to feed humanity. She missed used something that was put there for a different purpose. She misused the the puppy that was put there for a different purpose. None of these other analogies apply John The reason the tree of knowledge of good and evil issue is it had no other purpose purpose. Other than to tempt Adam and eve the fruit was not supposed to be eaten but it was a right in the the center of the garden. The fruit didn't have to be delicious. It could have been disgusting but God intentionally made it delicious and made it look very pleasing coming to the I got. I got didn't have to allow the serpent to go talk to Eve but everything happens on earth does. According to God's Will God's more powerful than that serpent he could have not given the serpent the ability to talk but he made all of these things he made all of these things happen and put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the center of the garden. The only purpose of that a tree was to tempt eve and it worked and she failed the test and that's why we have tornadoes. It's it's an absurd concept to me but I don't understand why you can't just go. Yeah God put the tree there to test her because that's exactly what he did man. He put the tree there to test her. Why do you think he put the tree there? If you if you WANNA use the word test I'm I'm I'm actually fine with that. Were you WANNA use the word temptation. That's that's where we'll we'll disagree every time. What's the difference temptation? Temptation is not the same as a test. By definition. It's not the same. Okay explain that to me. Give me one second. Let me look it up. Well I I know I know that a test I mean I don't I don't look if I test you on your spelling. I'm not tempting you okay. Oh no I agree with so. They're not they're not exact synonyms but over in this situation. I think not not all testing. Okay let's talk. Let's look at Abraham. I think I think that'd be a good example. This this is a test. God gave to Abraham Stop Right there right there. No John No because his son already existed for a different purpose. This doesn't count. It's not analysis. You have to remember you have to remember look at the definition but the whole half the remember the goal purpose the whole purpose is tree was created was to see if eve would eat from it. That is temptation. He made the tree in the middle of the garden. He made the fruit delicious. How was that not tempting? Her every every tree in the garden was delicious. Look at the environment they lived in they lived in professor. You're just avoiding quitting. Your no no word on your voiding. Join you're just avoiding it. You're just avoiding the question when I said no I say no when when I said why did he have to make that one delicious. They were all delicious. That's a complete avoidance of my question. He didn't have to make the one that was going to create all this evil in the world also delicious but he did to tempt her because if the if the fruit was gross she would not eat. We're looking at delicious in terms of taste. She didn't know it. It tasted like it said it was pleasing. We're really looking at is pleasing to the eye. That's not that's not taste. That's the sense that confess. I know but it says it was when the woman saw suffering in terms of the environment that they lived in this perfection. Nobody listen to me. I personally personally now. It says when the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye and also desirable for gaining wisdom. She took some and ate it. That's it why did you. Why did God make? Why did God make the fruit good for food and pleasing to the eye and also desirable for gaining wisdom? Why did he make it so good if he wasn't tempting her? It's not an avoidance of the question. Everything was good by the definition given in scripture. God looked and saw and everything was good John Daly the John but but listen to me but all of the other fruit was edible. Why did he make unavoidable fruit also so taste good? He didn't even have to put the tree there. Why did he put the tree there? This is where we're back to pre well that that deficient that he used. I can't do this to implement. Free will doesn't really have an affect. Yeah the Tree Sherry had free will again. We're GONNA talking circles in. This is getting frustrating. Because you're you're not you're just not listening to me man. I don't know I don't know why we're having this breakdown. We normally have really good conversations. You're I think you're just locking in on this and refusing refusing using to take in what I'm saying she could have. She could have kicked in the nuts man. She could have broken a tree branch off and smacked him with it. She didn't have to have this delicious looking wisdom gaining fruit hanging in front of her face in the middle of the garden. That is temptation you so much more than a greater temptation to maintain perfection. Here's the thing. I think that one little verse in James One Thirteen if that verse did not say God has not tempted anyone. I think you would agree with me. One hundred percent. That God was tempting her but the problem is with your confirmation bias because this has to be the word of God you have to make this work in your worldview so you are locked in both of these things working looking at the same time. You're being so stubborn right now dude instead of just going yeah. James won't thirteen is wrong because God definitely tempted eve by making that fruit. Look so good but telling her she couldn't have it. That's definitely tempting if that I didn't say that I don't think you'd have a problem at all with admitting that God was testing in tempting her and use them some interchangeably but because James Thirteen says. God hasn't tempted anyone. It's forcing you to do. All these mental gymnastics to try to make both fit and it just doesn't and the listener listener can see right through it. Dude we just need to move on. I'm good fat. Fantastic here ear. I guess what we should touch on it. I forgot to mention this when we talked before the show John did you ever look into the aren't chariots thing about God being all powerful I did what was your takeaway on that one because the for for a quick for quick revisit You'd started with God being all powerful because it's all started with your tick tock saying that Can God make make a rock too big that he can't lift it if you haven't heard that episode go back and listen to what I don't know what episode number was. There's a couple of weeks ago. It's four twenty four twenty two. It's called all youth pastor versus David Smalley If you haven't heard that go back and listen to that one but we briefly talked about you said God was all powerful oil and then I quoted the verse forgot what it was now. judges was in judges was at one nineteen judges One nineteen yes sir. Okay so judges. One nineteen is where it says that there was a war and God was helping with the war but then the opposition brought out chariots of iron and God was unable to defeat them. Not what it says. But you're close okay. What does it say? He says he was unable to drive out the inhabitants of the valley because because they have they had chariots made of iron. If my memory serves me right I can look up the verse but I'm pretty sure that's what it says. Do you want to read it. I'll already quick. Go ahead because we just is going off. Memory's not gonNA help us. I don't think my pull it up here. You can start a few verses before because there's a there's a guy who's struggling. What is it soul? I believe I keep wanting to say saw. But then I get it mixed up with my versus Malachite when Saul is also doing it and then there's Jeff though who is in a battle and then he it makes a sacrifice for his. He sacrifices his daughter birth. You want me to start out I'm just doing it for memory man. I don't really know. Just go to judges one and maybe maybe fourteen or fifteen so we can understand. There's a battle going on and somebody's okay through and I think it's August August twenty. So here's what it says. Then it came about when she came to him that she persuaded him to lasker father for that correct. Let's see no this shouldn't be the Jeff. Yeah that's right that's right. That's AH fourteen. We can move on from that because speaking about something about let's start for seventeen okay. Then it's then Judah went with Simeon his brother and they struck the Canaanites nights living in the fast and utterly destroyed it. Oh it was new to the city. Was it's Judah than Jude. Okay go ahead get utterly destroyed it so the name of the city was called hormone and Judah took Gaza with the territory and Ascalon this territory and Eltron with its territory. Now the Lord was with you too and they took possession on the hill country. All right hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on. I'm sorry I'm sorry you were just about to say it. Essentially it says the Lord was with him so God is is helping Judah takeover violently takeover these lands this whole conflict a Palestinian Israeli conflict thing. That's been going on for thousands of years. A lot of it is based and things like this I have been ordained by God to take the land you live in. I've talked to God. God told me that's mine. The people living there the go but God talk to me and told me this land was mine and that's how literally millions of people have been slaughtered for two thousand years. That's what's happening and we see Biblical evidence here that God is approving of and helping with taking over land so back up just a couple of verses. Try not to read so fast speak really really quickly and it's going to be hard for people because you said Gaza. It took me a second to understand. You didn't say God so lowdown just yeah and and go ahead all right. So and Judah took Gaza as a with its territory and Ascalon with its territory and Akron with its territory. Now the Lord was with Judah and they took possession of the hill country but could not drive out the inhabitants but in the valley because they had iron chariots then they gave Hebron Kayla says Moses at promised and he drove out from there. The three sons of knock. Yeah that's what I said by memory. They could not drive out the inhabitants of Deloitte because God could not drive them out. That's not what it says. It says they speaking of the people not speaking of it says God was with him and they took the evidence but they could know John No man come Yvonne Dude. Don't do this again. Let's start back over at seventeen start. Bekker's have so the story we see here is that Judah is okay for your Christian people listening. I'm going to say some things you haven't you've heard them before Judah kicking ass and taking names bom. That's my town boom. That's my town poem phone. That's my town God is with him. The Lord is with Judah what does this mean the means that God and Judah are together her kicking ass and taking over territories but they run into a problem. They can't drive out the inhabitants of the valley why God in Judah cannot together even cannot defeat the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of iron. How can you interpret interpret that any other way okay? So that's actually it's really easy but it's GonNa it's GonNa take. Can you go to a few texts for me. Do you have a Bible in front of me. Yes ready to go and I can. I can read. I can read some to that that way. We can just kind of follow along. Okay what go ahead all right. So so if you actually read on passages one nineteen just literally just the next Couple of paragraphs you see an entire or segment where they stop taking over territory. Not that not not that They didn't try. Why but it is goes into this entire list of how they were unable to drive them out? They're unable to get them out of the La- not just not just in this situation and but also in not one and it's really hard for the for the lay person to read because it's all just names of tribes it's like Zevulun the Canaanites acco seed on it gets really really. Yes Helga Affect Rehab. I see a lot of people getting into this. And being like Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and the skipping it. 'cause it's there's a lot here but I'm I'm not sure how that ties in to God failing to defeat chariots of iron judges one nineteen nowhere. So I'm I'm getting there. I promise I'm all right so we need to understand right now is what's happening is a competitive campaign. All Right Judah is going on this this campaign to go through the promised land this has been happening for centuries Were God promised them this. Land the land flowing with milk and honey from the Egyptians. It's all of this so this campaign is finally taking place and what we see is actually we see it in Joshua. 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You only have five minutes a day. you want to do it right before you go to bed like I do. You want to do it in the morning when I wake up there. Meditations for everyone and this is such a great idea because it's a marketplace of different styles of meditation. Are you spiritual so we got that. Are you secular science based we got that to. Do you. Just want a little bit of motivation to help focus for the day. That's there to imagine. If every every single musical artist had their own APP you had to go. Listen to Taylor swift on the Taylor swift APP and you had to go listen to to to Um Madonna on her own APP and you had to listen to Jay Z by downloading. That one kind of is the case. Imagine if every single artist you had had their own APP. No you the GO-TO tunes you go to spotify. You go to the individual APPs to hear all of the music. That's what simple habit is like. You've downloaded meditation after before and deleted it. Because it wasn't for you you. This APP is for you because there's GonNa be a way to meditate that you're going to like simple habit dot com slash David to get that offer do it now. Now all right buddy did you find it. Yeah I got it all right so you go to judge to for me and so I'm one. Oh six thirty six. I have two in front of me now. This is going to be. I'm GonNa make this short and concise as I can for your listeners but this is super important all right because generation really what you see in judges one. Nineteen is prophesied about by Moses in numbers by Joshua in Joshua. Your pet may be healthy but is it well loyal companion. We believe there are five pillars of wellness. It's not just about what they eat. or how much they run. It's about creating an environment where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met. The five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship. Purpose when all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more visit us at one of our fifty five loyal companion stores or go online loyal Companion Canyon Dot Com. How do you keep your family healthy this season when it feels like everyone around? You is getting sick. I used them to call. Its drug free and scientifically tested to help. Support your immunity. Sam McCall has the power of black elderberry in every purple bottle. It comes in tablet Syrup chewables or my kids favorite the great tasting acing Gumy's so this cold and flu season support your family's immunity with Samba. Call Black elderberry. It's the only one I trust for my family and best of all my kids love it too. Well these are both that precede the book of judges and then it is also confirmed later on by David in the psalms. Could you judge to from me all read from numbers while you're doing that so imagine numbers okay. So number thirty three fifty five says this. I'M GONNA start a little bit fifty four you shall inherit the land by according to your families to the larger. You should give more inheritance into the smaller. You should give less inherit wherever the lot falls and then it goes down but if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you then shall come about that those whom you let remain of them will become as pricks in your eyes and thorns in your sides. Maywood trouble you in the the land in which you live. So that's number thirty. Three fifty five and we know numbers was written by Moses. Now hold on look at Judge Care for Joshua you gotta sit when when you say we know. That numbers was written by Moses. Okay we believe I want you to take. I want you to take a side note more and more. Rabbinical scholars are now acknowledging that Moses probably didn't even exist in these are rabbis who are scholars of the Torah Tanakh ancient Jewish culture. As well as documents it is more and more becoming widely believed that Moses was a fictional character given to represent certain ideas so we may need to dive into that in a future episode. But I try not to say anything in an interrupt you until you come out with you know a a solid statement or an absolute. I just want to hit the brakes on that for a moment. Have you taken can not go back another time. We do not know that Moses did anything no. You're you're very good at that. I that's why I enjoy having these conversations with you. Oh so thank you so all right so I took a note of it all right so go ahead. I'm GonNa GonNa read Joshua here's what it says. This is reinforcing. The book of numbers know with certainty. That the Lord your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you but they will be a snare trap to you with on your side. The thornier is until you perish from off this good land which the Lord your God has given. Now go ahead and read judges to from me and I'll I'll tell you where to stop and you'll see where I'm getting. You'll see what I'm getting. I'm going to start at the beginning. Yes yes okay the angel of very fast okay. Angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to bulk him and said I brought you up out of Egypt and lead you into the land. I and I swore to give your ancestors I said I will never break my covenant with you and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land but you shall break down on their altars yet. You have disobeyed me. Why have you done this? And I've also said I will not drive them out before you. They will become traps for you. And they're God's odds will become snares to you when the angel of the Lord had spoken these things to all the Israelites. The people wept aloud. There you go there you can stop right there all right. So well says didn't offer just one nineteen now that we've we've we've read all these things and I'm going to read this one final one in Psalm. One zero six and it says it says this so you have this whole campaign that is happening in the book of judges having to do with Judah and having to do with the other tribes taking over the land of Canaan it's an entire campaign against this land. It's a war. Now here's where you get reference to what's happening during this war because there's a lot of cities that were conquered before this one that we're speaking of with the Iron Chariots. We know. I don't have it in front of me right now. We know oh in Joshua Joshua actually references to the people. Hey don't be afraid of these people because they have aren't sure he's making a speech he's kind of doing like an Aragon Oregon thing and Lord of the Rings. It is not this day right. So he's making the speech that people don't be afraid of them because they have iron theories and so this visit the distinction in Psalm. One or six thirty six. We gain context. Actually what happened in numbers in Joshua and judges and it says this speaking of this exact same people they did not destroy the people's as the Lord commanded them but they mingle with the nation's and adopted their customs. They worship their bridles which became a snare to have. They sacrificed their sons and their daughters. To false gods they shed innocent blood and this is talking about the people of Israel in context the blood of their sons and daughters whom I sacrificed to idols of Canaan and the land was desecrated by their blood therefore the Lord was angry with his people and a port. What is inheritance he gave them into the hands of the nations and their foes ruled over them their enemies oppress them and subjected them to power and then it goes on so having to do the judges one nineteen we are not saying that God could not defeat iron chariots? It says that God was with them. The Lord's with them. But there is a huge huge difference scripturally and textually where God was with them and God fighting for them any single illustration in the Bible where it says God fought for them. They were victorious. But wh when they when it says God was with them that does not mean he was fighting fighting for them to secure them and ultimate victory. Because what started to happen was they did these exact same things in psalm. One Oh six. They were in this campaign. Worshipping Idols intermarrying with the people of Canaan sacrificing their sons and daughters shutting all this blood and so when it comes to judges one nineteen having to do with iron shares. This this is where God stopped fighting for them. And then all of these scriptures that we've read where these nations and numbers and Joshua and judges these nations are going to be a thorn in your side died and what you read in Judges Chapter Two is where the Angel of the Lord Confirms What he's doing and why they're not taking these lands anymore by force and what's going to happen afterwards now and do even kind of went into it later on in what's happening in the modern day is the fact that people that they were called hall to destroy and call the takeout did not happen and therefore they become a thorn in their sides throughout time. Here's that as my Anthony Well let me tell you why fails I commend you on the attempt. Let me tell you why it fails. It does not say that they that they were unable to take out the people from the plains Because God's stopped fighting it doesn't say they were unable to take out the The people of the valley because God refused to help or that. There was a moral reason why God did not want them to win. The word says they were unable to drive. The people from the plains wins because they had chariots fitted with iron. The reason for the loss is because they had chariots fitted fitted with iron which means these people were too tough for Judah and the Lord. I'll read it all together right right now. The Lord was with the men of Judah they took possession of the hill country but they were unable to drive drive the people from the plains because they had chariots fitted with iron. Everything else you're talking about is fine to add to it it but this one specific Group of people from the plains in some versions say the valley they could not not defeat them because they had chariots fitted with iron. I think your arguments still fall short the that. That's that's where we disagree like in judges to where that you read were says therefore I have also said I will not drive them out before you they will become thorns in your side and their gods will be but that's that's And we said that. But that's after this. Yeah this this is in judge to right so after after he gets beaten by chariots of Iron Lee Lee later. Says I'm not going to help you do this anymore. Oh no he didn't get beaten by chariots of iron. God uses our abilities in order to fight as well. It's it's not a robotic so look at the story of David and Goliath for example. You have a little boy who maybe twelve thirteen years old I. It's up for debate. You have the little boy going against over nine foot giant. His spear was bigger than David. David went with the Lord. And guess what God used his ability in order to defeat the giant when the people of Israel started falling into these sense and started worshiping these gods and sacrificing all this mess when that happened. God's says all right now you find in your own ability belt now you can go to war on your own. I'm with you. You're my people but I'm not fighting for you anymore. And that's what's confirmed armed in judges to and like. I said right after all John John. I know we're just making the same argument yard made and I just don't I don't have the time for it. I think we've both centerpiece piece. I'll let the listener decide. I think your your answer falls short. If there's a Christian who already believes What what you believe? They're gonNA find your answer more convincing. I hope they look at it a little deeper and realize the verse. The verse clearly says the Lord was with the men of Judah they could not drive out the inhabitants of the planes lanes because they had chariots fitted with iron. It's simple cut and dried for me. I'll let the listener decide from there. I WANNA get into some more Bible contradictions before we run out of time and move into the Patriots portion of the show. there's a very simple one that I tossed out to Greg Lock and I WANNA I wanNA toss it with you now and before I do. I'm actually GONNA play a little bit of audio of something that I actually said to greg locked as one of the few things the only thing I actually pulled from today's show from the show today when I was getting ready for this So let me ask you before I do this. What what do you do? Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God yes and is it. Is it the total complete word of God Define for me Are there mistakes when your definition of complete Is Are there mistakes in the original text no in English translations thousands. Oh okay all right. So let's do this. I'll take a super short break. We're GONNA they come right back and we're going to dive into this audio that I'm GonNa play to you that I played for Greg Lock and I want you to respond to his will more dogma debate right after this welcome back to Dogma debate just before the break. I was teasing this clip. That I was GONNA play here. It is for you. This is what happened. Spend A little over three years ago fourteen sixteen sixteen and not yet a little over three years ago whenever I had this conversation precision with pastor. Greg Locke when talking about the Bible being the word of God. Here's what I said to him and I felt like I couldn't say it any better than this. So here we go. So let's go and get started. You mentioned in the video that the Bible has seven hundred ninety one thousand three hundred twenty eight words now. The first thing I want to bring up to you is the Christian website. Never thirsty dot org counted as eight hundred seven thousand three sixty one united fellowship outreach. Dot Com says at seven seven hundred eighty three thousand one. Thirty seven Good News Media Bible Study reports seven hundred seventy four thousand seven hundred forty six words so with things like the Catholic Bible including the Apocrypha containing seventy three books the Protestant Bible having sixty six with one hundred and fourteen different versions of the Bible. That all hold the primary title title of Holy Bible to begin this whole conversation by asking which Bible do you claim to be perfect. And how do you know that's the one I love the way. That's worded very concise. It's right to the point before the break. John said he didn't really see it as perfect. He thinks the original one was which can bring up some other historical issues to have John. What is your take on what I just said to pastor lock? What was his his response to that? Just curious do you. He said he was a King James Guy but he never really confirmed firmed as to how he knew that was the right one he just felt like that was the one that was the closest to the original. All right. So we're we're we're going. Now is the difference between an air and sea and inspiration In terms terms of the original text like I said that's that is the the perfect version we we. We don't have the perfect version. We do not have the original autographs or the original man. Well we'll hold on hold on hold on we do have we have some but they're fragments and this is part yet. This is part of the problem problem and I think I think this is the reason why we're we're able to have a conversation about contradictions. Because some of the some of the fragments are just the size of a credit card. Like there are just a few sentences there are some issues where there are some instances wherein we only have one word align. And the scribe. I would read the top paragraph. They would get to this one thing where there was only a only one word in a line and they would read the next paragraph and they would just fill in what they thought the rest of the line was. This happened multiple times and then we have issues. We have copies of the book where it shows where a scribe made a correction direction or made a change and then a supervisor of a like a supervising editor wrote in the margin You Nave Save. Don't change the text as k. n. a. i. v. e. you idiot or you imbecile. Don't don't change this text. And and so. What do you know what manuscript that was taken from? I know you know what I have it for. You know what I would love to do what I would love to do is for you to listen into a David Fitzgerald's book his Audio Book that we produced together because we talk about that in detail not only in reading the book but then at the end and we do a thirty minute audio interview I asked him a bunch of questions as we were producing the audio book and we play that interview at the end of the audiobook so even if you buy the book you're not going to get that version of it That book is called a believers called Jesus Missing in Action M. Y. T. H. I. N. G.. Jesus Jesus Missing in action Or it could be ten Christian miss that show Jesus never existed all. I'll call Dave. I'll find out where that specific references and I'll point you to it. You can make a note you can listen to it. You can read it. You can see the pictures of it because I think we actually attached a pdf with the audio book so you can still see the versions of the credit card size scripts that we have and he really breaks a lot of this down he super into the history of the Bible so we can get into that later But the idea is that we can say Matthew wrote this. We don't know that a guy named Matthew wrote it in fact in the Bible it's call. It says the Gospel according to Matthew so these were stories that were passed down and Matthew was given us you know we were given the name Matthew as the author right so we do know there are different versions today. One hundred and fourteen to be exact. We know that there were forty three different the authors who who are listed as authors of the Bible We know that it was written over three different languages. None of which new they were all writing getting a Something that would all be canonized one day and we know what was written over a period of sixteen hundred years. I mean you could look at our culture and how much it's changed in twenty years news or forty years as it relates to say gay marriage or in the last ten years as it relates to marijuana use or in the last last forty to fifty years and then as it relates to how women are treated in our society or the last hundred years as it relates to medicine improving. You can imagine what kind of of cultural change would happen over. Sixteen Hundred Years in all of this has captured in this book written by forty three different people. And then we have like I said the Catholic Catholic Apocrypha Aquifer which adds books to the Bible. So whenever you say the Bible is the word of God which one are you talking about. We're talking the original original tax. What was given to the original writers? That's well that doesn't as sorry that doesn't exist. There is no first Bible. There are oh I don't know I completely agree okay. 'cause I think a lot of people especially kids listening if they were to hear you say that they would go. Oh yeah the original one. That's the one but there's not one that there are there are clumps of texts. There are missing pieces. Some of it looked burn earns. Some of it were just old We scribes bill every single Bible that we have today it was created by people. Oh doing our best guesswork as to what the original authors were trying to convey. We don't everything from the Council of Nigh on is is basically some sort of political decision to go. This committee of Human Beings decides that this is going in the Canon. Well that's not God's word that's the Council Council of Nice Cia's Word you know had had had constantine not existed. It might look a little different right so people were pushing for different parts of the Bible to be entered there were battles over the trinity. There were battles over what versus would go in which ones would be withheld. It came down to a committee voting so to now hold this book and say this is the word of God is like well you know I it. It would be like calling our constitution. The word of God. We'll doesn't that depend on who the people were at that time and what culture was going on and how they felt like voting in that day and who transcribed and then how they translated you know what I mean it. Just it just seems so convoluted by human beings and complicated by potential mistakes and contradictions. Don't really know for sure. Which version is the one that we go? This is the one to live by. I'm going to read a statement net. Now are you familiar with the Chicago statement. Yes us go ahead okay. So I'm GonNa read just a piece of it I'm not GonNa read the whole statement Dougie. Yeah we will. We'll have some people people fall asleep in. Your bed may be healthy but is it well. Loyal companion we believe. They're five pillars of wellness. It's not just about what they eat. or how much they they run. It's about creating an environment where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met. The five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship. Ship and purpose when all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more visit us at one of our fifty five loyal companion stores or go online at Royal Companion Dot Com. Your pet may be healthy but is it well at loyal companion. We believe they're five pillars pet wellness. It's not just about what they eat. or how much they run. It's about creating an environment where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met. The five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship inch ship and purpose when all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more visit us at one of our fifty five loyal companion stores or go online and royal companion dot com. That's why because I have a very soothing that you're like all right so holy scripture being God's own word written by man prepared and Super Superintendent by his Holy Spirit is infallible divine authority in all matters upon which touches it is believed as God's instruction in all that it affirms uh-huh Betas God's commanded and all that requires embraced his pledge and all that it promises being wholly and verbally God given scripture is without air and fault in all its teaching no less than what it states about God acting in creation about events of the world history and about its own literally origin under my own writing under todd. Then it's witness to God's saving grace in individualize so that that was to give context of what's happening here a bunch of evangelical theologians and scholars got together other and were discussing this exact topic in terms of biblical guaranteeing inspiration and this is one of the whole statements incredible. If you're the Christian that's listening and Wants a really good Well idea of how we can describe this. I would definitely go check out the Chicago states in. Here's a little history. Okay okay but again that those are the that the whole the whole point of this statement is it was developed by about about two hundred evangelical leaders at a conference in the seventies so again just a bunch of guys got together and decided that this was the statement on an errand city the same mm statement denies science outright. The same Chicago statement. Talks about how They completely deny what they call. Hall scientism and naturalism. They deny evolution. They does they deny relativism. They deny humanism secular humanism. They deny anything anything having to do that. Even the scientific hypothesis could be clear about evolutionary biology. So take what you will from the statement but but it was just a huge group of Evangelicals at a conference that were trying to clear up the story on in Erin see and I don't know that they're statement even did it But take it with a grain of salt because they are demonstrably wrong about multiple statements in the Chicago statement. And if you ever wanted to come on and have a discussion about evolution and biology I could show you in hopefully crack this armor that you hold up up with the Chicago statement by saying look. It's very clear that they're completely demonstrably wrong about this. Does that change the way you view the Chicago statement and then we would would go from there but I agree with the statement as an errand by any by any means without without error. And what they're asserting by at all it's not it's I'm not saying it's the word of God and this needs to be the statement for all I say it's a good description of trying to understand something as is broad in spectrum as scripture. I think it's pretty. It's pretty clear though John. Anything that involves a human being has the potential of fallability period. Any surgery could go wrong even though Oh that doctor has been doing that surgery for forty years any mathematician who's been a PhD for twenty five years in a professor of mathematics at the most prestigious university could make a mistake in an equation. Any any car manufacturer WHO's been making cars since nineteen o seven and has long beautiful track record of just great sales and everything they could still put out a faulty product that requires recall no matter how the greatest actors in the world have blooper reels sales. We are people. People are eligible so the moment God goes. I have had this incredibly important message that I wanNA bestow upon mankind for how to behave how to treat one another in how to operate in their daily lives but I'm not gonNa just give them the text. I'm going to inspire them a little bit here. A little bit there in three different languages over sixteen nine hundred years with forty three different people. I'm going to let them sort it out with thousands of different scribes and then have to translate it in multiple languages because they all speak different languages because of my whole Tower of Babel incident I'm just GonNa let them figure it out and hope there's not any mistakes that doesn't sound like like a very effective way to communicate such an important message. Don't you think that if he is the most powerful intelligent being in the universe did he have a little better way of transmitting that message to his important chosen little creatures other than letting fallible people tell other fallible people people what to do and what not to do I mean if we're all centers and we're all fallible and we're all broken and we're all living in a fallible Fallen world how. How could I possibly trust another sinful fallible human being to tell me an interpretation of this supposedly perfect scripture when dealing when dealing with the subject of an errand see? I think it's incredible. The fact of the I love the quote that says the Bible is the annual that is worn out many hammers. This thing has been poked prodded at for generations and generations and generations generations and yet it still retained the fact that there's a scripture my father in law who's actually he passed he passed away in February but ah he was a pastor and everything every every single Sunday morning whenever he got up to preach he would say scripture the grass withers the flowers fade paid. But God's word stands forever the fact that this document is still around today and wasn't destroyed completely completely throughout history the fact that it still is the best seller of any book in history the fact that it uses humanity all throughout these generations in order to convey the same message over and over and over in all of these different languages and and then all of its teachings is one of the most miraculous I it is you cannot call that in my world the obviously it's a miracle that it still retains the exact same Concept the foundations the fake. Will you find errors in the English versions. Yes you will you find contradictions. That can't be reconciled. Possibly it depends. It depends on where you get into the versions but I do not believe there are contradictions. That cannot be reconciled based off the word of God God will hold on. You're getting too far so the first thing I want to deal with is what you just said that. It's it's amazing that it's held on this long right. I guess is what you're getting at Um Yeah I mean I mean name name another historical document that can even be compared to it and you won't find one. Oh I don't think so you know I I think you definitely can There are there are Chinese documents. There are Egypt documents that have that have was still l.. Withstood the test of time. I think the reason. There's no doubt that the Bible has lasted a long time. That's a matter of fact but I don't think I think it's a lasting. Because of its truth I think it's lasted because of Christian adaptability to different cultures Violence from the Crusades Zaid's indoctrination of children making them fear challenging the word Teaching things like we talked about at the beginning of the show. That seeking wisdom is a bad thing making kids fear under the threat of Hell and damnation. Should they prove anything thing in this Bible wrong. They're going to burn fraternity. I think those those are reasons why it's still prevalent. I think that that the reason why the Bible and Christianity are still so powerful are the exact same reasons. Islam is still very powerful in our world. It's not because house it's true John. It's because people are terrified to challenge it because of consequences it's still relevant even for today the fact that it was written fifteen th centuries ago. It's still relevant for things that are happening today. Like I. I the fact that I can still preach the fact that I can still talk to. My students or pastors can get on Sunday mornings all over the nation nation. All over the world get up and go and be missionaries or evangelist. Or whatever the fact that they can preach this word and it still has relevance for what what is happening even in this culture. We're living in right. Now is nothing short of a miracle. Nothing sure it's nothing short of supernatural supernatural. Oh I think it's I think it's very short of that. I think it has much more to do with indoctrinating a kid to be terrified to challenge it and That by the time the kid is old enough. I think I think teaching a kid that God made the world in six days and created all the animals in their current form when they're three four five six and seven years old makes aches ninth grade biology class very difficult on that kid and when that kid gets made fun of for raising his hand and going but lions can't be related to cheat is because God made them as different kinds and When that gets laughed at because he doesn't understand SPEC- ation because because he was withheld evolutionary facts from his Christian parents that then makes him angry at the secular world because he's picked on right and so then it becomes an US versus them and he falls even harder into the Christian mindset and then it becomes a battle More and more information is available. I think the the Internet is where religion goes to die. I think as as as Ron White said in his stand up Ron. Why don't you the from from Blue Blue Collar comedy? He's he's he's a comedian from Texas him. Maybe he's the one always worthy. Yeah he's he's Jeff Foxworthy's buddy the one that always has the glass astle whiskey in the cigar on stage I think he's at the COM. He's at the comedy store all the time. He's a great dude. He's taller than you think he is. By the way he's a big guy but he's he's got a joke that where he goes he said my son can look up anything on his own he goes. He's constantly just Google and stuff you smartest kid I know he goes. He goes when I was a kid. I just believe what my mom told me. He said she'd say something like Four thousand years ago an old man and name Noah built a giant boat and put all the animals in it and it rained. And God's sake and thank God saved all the animals in those boat and I just believed her he. Could you tell the kids something like that. Today they pull out their phone. Click Click Bullshit. And it's so funny and I know you don't probably appreciate the joke but it's funny that information nation is so readily available to people to be able to fact check things and look into things and to run contradictions against this. I could even right now. Open my laptop open a browser and look the original Hebrew word for this or for that and you and I can have a discussion on the original Hebrew without speaking the language right so yeah in information is so readily available. These conversations are getting easier and easier to have from my point of view and I think they're getting more difficult for people people on your side to be able to to be able to defend this kind of thing So I don't think it's a miracle. I think that fear has driven people for a long time to believe what they are told old because they are under threat of hell and damnation and the less people believe in hell the more liberal ideas become and I don't mean politically I I mean. The less stringent ideas are withheld or held onto in the Bible. The more people are less likely to believe in hell. They're less likely to have that fear. They're less likely to pass that on to their children and I think religion is slowly going away. It's GonNa take several generations but I think it's still happening. Let's dive into some brief life to some actual contradictions. That's what they clicked on his show for and we've given them like two hours of this. Let's let's let's get into the nuts and bolts of this. I want to hear your take on. This isn't just contradiction. That's also problems with the Bible I WanNa talk about this contradiction. Is Jesus the same as God in John. Ten thirty he says I and my father are one but in other verses he says the father is greater than I separating himself from God I want to talk to you about a lodger cursing those forty two children simply for calling him baldy and then God since two female bears to rip apart heart these kids. This is second king's to twenty three Kings to twenty. Yeah you don't have to make the notes right now. I'm just I'm letting listeners know what we're GONNA continue talking about on okay and also on the question of whether or not the stone was rolled away from the tomb of Jesus which is also very important because because I if the stone was already rolled away then someone could have taken the body of Jesus and now we're told that he miraculously woke up in the Senate to Heaven Matthew who twenty eight twelve. Yeah Matthew Twenty sorry twenty eight one through to Says that the stone was placed with already in place when they arrived in the the angel. Rolled it back but in Mark Sixteen four it said the stone had already been rolled away before they got there and this is backed up by Luke Twenty any four by John Twenty I'm going to ask you about that one and also there's a woman they Michael in the Bible one verse says she had no children another verse says she had five children and again. It's on. She had no children to a certain point and then she had five children the versus said she had none at said she had none until the day of her death and then another verse says that she had five kids. I think it's a very blatant error. Also WanNA find out if there's an unforgivable sin because mark says That there is unforgivable. Sin and John Says Jesus forgave all sins no exceptions mentioned so. I WanNa talk talk about that and so much more. We're going to do it at Patriotair Dot com slash David C smalley. If you want to continue this conversation John. Thank you so much for being a part of this. We're going to continue. And you'RE GONNA comments section of patriotic as well right yet. I will awesome more all your questions. I I am excited to talk to you guys. It was fun last time. I think it'll be fun this time. Awesome very cool row. We're going to continue this right now. Everybody else please drive like you know each other. Your your pet may be healthy but is it well at loyal companion. We believe they're five pillars of pet wellness. It's not just about what they eat or how much they run. It's about creating an environment were your pets. Physical and emotional needs are met the five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship and purpose when in all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more visit us. At one of our fifty-five loyal companion stores or go online at Royal Companion Dot Com. Your pet may be healthy but isn't well at loyal companion. We believe they're five pillars of pet wellness. It's not just about what they eat or how much they run. It's about creating an environment. Airman where your pets physical and emotional needs are all met the five pillars are nourishment play comfort companionship and purpose when all five or in place your pet becomes the best version of themselves to learn more. visit us at one of our fifty five loyal companion stores or go online at loyal companion dot com.

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#526 - Youth Pastor's Last Show

Dogma Debate

2:12:52 hr | 6 months ago

#526 - Youth Pastor's Last Show

"I'm neil degrasse tyson. Adam corolla gillette. Not only listening. I'm the guess and tell her. I listen and i am the fourth listener and that must make me at least the fourth listener to keep our three listeners. Coming back we must be doing something right. And if you're the fourth listener we thank you for the support. You can get every episode with no ads at patriot dot com slash david smalley and take advantage of your listeners. Status organised david smalley for slander with a world divided. It's time to resurrect nuance and remember the importance of conversation. He's an actor. He's a comedian and he'll make you think this is david c smalley so excited to be with a brand new network star. Burn's gullible look them up. Go check it out. Look them up. I'm excited to be a part of the network and try to subscribe to the show where you're gonna find it more freely available things like i tunes things like spotify things like you know. Google play some of the smaller pod catchers that we call some of the smaller one off clients. They're doing this thing. Now where they download the show and then re uploaded which is called re hosting and then everyone else that listens through that app. I don't get credit for the download and so my advertisers can't see that i'm reaching those people are gonna stop allowing the show on some of the smaller platforms because they're re hosting the show so We're having to clamp down on that so make sure you're on one of the major ones right something like spotify tunes Star burns you know has something directly use that Or google play something massive on android. But i i was looking it up. And i've were on like forty something different podcast apps and a lot of them are re hosting which means the downloads are accounting. And i i can't. I can't operate under these conditions. People trying to do that or better yet. Just go snatching up on on its patriots. Dot com slash. David smalley. i would love to have your support over there my guest today. This is bittersweet for me because I guess he's retiring i. I don't know how this is happening. But he's informed me that this will be the last podcast he does. I don't know if it means just with me or in general but let me go ahead and bring him on a join me. In welcoming youth. Pastor john gary back for his eighth appearance. I believe right eight. Show john yes. That's it man. We're we're here for it so a full. It is not it is not just with you it is it is just in general and so when i say like final episode i would more so say final debate right if ever. You wanna bring me on just to like talk about my love for nickelodeon shameless plug we. We could do something like that. This is going to be my final debate for a good while. Maybe like thirty years in the future when you're sixty and have dementia all come back on the show and shame. Then you'll have a chance. Sounds so. I don't want to get into the reasons why yet Save that. because i haven't i've only three things. I want to talk to you about today and i want to do them in a certain order. I i wanna do first. I wanna talk about ravi zacharias and his ministries and the recent stuff. That because i know he was a huge impact on your belief system and now there are these massive allegations. The allegations were investigated and confirmed. And now there's this heartbreaking story. I want to talk about that. I've been want move in to cancel culture which you and i have had this sort of circle of atheist friends that that we know like the tarte guys. You know the atheist roundtable pasta mike. Ause murders sheds steve atheist. All these guys. I love those guys. They're they're great. They're entertaining And it's it's it's fun to watch some of their clips and qna's and you know. I consider those guys friends and and seeing what happened with you with them on tiktok where things kind of went sideways. Because of a video you did. I want to get into that Get your opinions on that. And then finally we can wrap up with. Why this is your last podcast. So at some point we're going to do the rest on patriots. But i'll figure out maybe we'll get an hour or so in and then we'll have to have to go to patriots for the rest but i am curious as to why this is your last show. What else going on. So let's just let's dive in first to the ravi zacharias peace because You know most people who who follow apologetic closely definitely know who he is. He's you know he was world. Famous has multimillion dollar ministry. It's z. I m do they say like ours. Zimmer are z. Ministries arzi i m. Okay yeah that's okay If it was a radio station it would be. You're listening to our zim. You know so. That's kind of what i was thinking. And i know there are some Like radio stations affiliated with him. His his ministry was just massive. So yeah so. I tell me. the impact ravi himself had on you and and your faith so ravi was just He was a brilliant apologised in terms of what he did. But now we find out who he was. And what he did are two entirely. Different people With two entirely different messages to spread and so ravi was another apologist. There's a lot of apologised. I really enjoy listening to Talk like j warner wallace one. I really like him. I like frank. Couric i like. I like ravi zacharias. Now i could care less And sean mcdowell josh mcdowell some some of the really the the main guys out there and there's some up and coming guys too but yes there are some things in ways that he put stuff like you can find all sorts of videos on youtube where a christian apologist destroys snarky atheist. Or something like that. And usually you're going to get a couple videos of ravi pop up. We debated and debated dawkins debated sam harris. We have a of friends in common So there was something that happened a few years ago. Where ravi was accused of sexual misconduct while he was alive and his ministry fought back against that in one some legal battle. Do you know the details of their. So yes i do the. I was not in apologetic. so again. i just blame you entirely for my my love for apologetic because it drove me to study right your your tough questions your hard questions. Things that i never really examined drove me to study harder than i ever have. It drove me to question things which is very good thing. Some people look at me as christians and they say. Oh you have to be careful when you when you start questioning things and i think that is the most foolish thing. We could say Because i don't believe faith is blind and so i. I think it is massively important that we do question things. And i made a video just not too long ago. Actually about There was a girl who she made a video on talk and she was basically saying. I am going to go on a religious journey. I don't wanna be the girl who's a christian just because she was raised in a christian family and indoctrinated into it and i- stitched her video and i said yes. Absolutely what you need to do is you need to set your beliefs on fire. Because here's the thing david as christian. I want to talk to people and i want to talk to people of other religions specifically not just atheist but people of other religions and how do i get them to understand that. My religion is true right. This is a huge conversation that you have. And i i. I don't wanna talk forever but do you have anything you want to say on that. This is a huge conversation that atheists have will. there's all these different religions in the world. Why is yours the correct religion. And i really pondered that question. And so if. I'm having a conversation with a muslim than i want to be able to tell that muslim. Here's what you need to do. Set your beliefs on fire if you do that and your beliefs burned down. Let them burn in ashes. But if you do that. And they're still standing is true than than believe. It is true so expect people of other religions to do that. I cannot expect that from them. If i am unwilling to do it myself. I know that there's a burning question with the atheist listening right now on how you reconcile that with proverbs three five. Lean not on your own understanding. We often take data go. God doesn't want you to question things he doesn't want you to lean on your own understanding you want you to trust in the lord your god and that's kind of the antithesis of thinking for yourself the antithesis of freethinking. So how do you reconcile telling other christians to burn their beliefs to the ground while also maintaining that. Lean not on your own understanding in the bible. Yeah so we also have the recognition of not just that passage that you're referencing but we also have the recognition of verse that it was one of the first verses you ever quoted to me so when we were on the phone and we were talking and i was like okay. Who are you atheist man. And actually referenced that your i'm not gonna obviously put the whole thing out there but i referenced that your phone number has the number six right on purpose and yeah and we we had a we had a fun conversation about you actually referenced to me a scripture be ready to give a defense be ready to give a reason for the hope that you have first peter so we can also talk about the versus has study to show yourself approved. It's not just studied. The bible study in general. Study to show yourself approved so saying lean not on your own understanding but in always acknowledge christ or acknowledged the lord hill direct pat. I guess atheists though atheist listen to that and go yeah you know ask your questions but your understanding of it you know if you start to decide for yourself or you start to realize for yourself that something is unbelievable. There's always a bible verse to fall back on. That says all questions will be answered in the endless. Just you know. Trust in the lord your god and lean not on your own understanding. So if something's confusing to the christian it's sort of encouraged to give up on thinking and just lean on god for the understanding instead of yourself so let me do something because in this will come into play in We get into the topic of why this is my final debater. My final podcast. In goodness way I really want to have a conversation with you as real as possible. I want to have a conversation with you. As best as i possibly can so i am going to tend to the best of my ability that it is just you and i talking and that there is no audience. Yeah i do. I do notice a difference. And and maybe we'll switch the order up and do you know ravi now and then we'll get into the last podcast before we move into the cancel culture and patriot Maybe that's a better way to do it. Because i know the listeners are going to be just dying to know. What's going on there. But i will say just now i do notice a huge difference in in talking with you on the show versus are several phone calls. We have we just sit and chat for forty five minutes to our while. You're supposed to be working and clearly not and by the way we're still working side note side note just listener. Oh yeah go ahead say so john. So john We'll we'll have his airpods in in his phone in his pocket while he's working and he works at a place where he runs a register and customers. Yeah you sell Sell t-shirts and in john will take a customer. I'll be the middle of talking. And i'll just i'll just go. How how will this be all for. You awesome and i realized he can't respond to me. But i know we can hear me because the airpods around and so i just start messing with him in his ear. I've said crazy things to make him laugh in the middle of dealing with the customer. But my my more recent favorite thing to do is to give him codewords to slip into conversation and i just the other day we were yesterday. We're talking i said I said Work the word slippery into the conversation and he didn't say anything. I was like john. The code word is slippery. You have to see slippery in the middle of the conversation. And so he's he. What did you say you handed someone a sticker. You better onto that sticks. It's slippery gotta stickers slippery as any sense and then someone else came up. And i was work. Your code word is alligator. You have to work through an alligator into the conversation and do you remember what you said. It was something about it being cold outside or something. Yeah i it was cold. It was cold up there. But i said here we have. We have Beaches we have the sun. We have alligators. Yes so. I made it happen here one. The first time. The first time i did that you were doing something that i was trying to talk to. So that wasn't even a that moment. There was a time. I was working with a customer. And you were just saying something in my ear and layer may starting to crack up. I remember what it was. I just remembered what it was. You had told me before the customer sorta talking to you. You had told me about an inappropriate t shirt. That's in the shop. And i started quoting that shirt to you while you were standing there with his person. It's it's like an adult joke on a shirt so yeah about Something about baiting a hook and being a master at it right now yes. Yeah it was exactly that. So yes and so. I started just saying that over and over and i hear you start to laugh and the person's like this guy must be losing his mind. Yes so anyway so anyway. I don't get too far off from Ravi ravi story because we can get into the last podcast peace leader but go ahead and get onto your college stuff and then we can come back ravi but all all i was going to say was that i want this. I want this conversation to be like. It is shown. I wanted to be a as As how do i say I had a word in my head. But it's gonna end ganic as real inorganic. Yeah that's that's a good way to put it so I'm going to do exactly what i would do. If i was on the phone with ramona. Pull up the scripture so in proverbs three is the one you're voting right trust in the lord with all your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight okay and it goes on. Do not be wise in your own eyes. Fear the lord of turn away from evil dealing body refreshment for your bill and let me say let me just say we often tie that to the garden of eden and how the name of the tree was the knowledge of good and evil in the entire story is the serpent is saying if you eat of the fruit you will have knowledge of good and evil. You'll have the same knowledge that god does. You'll be like god and so. I think the metaphor that we often tie at least the atheist debaters will tie. Lean not on your own understanding in proverbs. Three five with genesis. And say you know seeking knowledge was the ultimate sin that caused everything evil to happen because eve wanted to know things so she ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and so seeking knowledge is what made everything bad happened and the bible says lean not on your own understanding so it seems to encourage you to not think for yourself. I think that's just horrible. Exegesis of the text. I think in regards to talking about trusting in the lord with all your heart leaning not on your own understanding point number one. It has nothing to do within. The context of the passage has nothing to do with the garden of eden. You you're kind of creating atheists sermon and you know. John john john. I have to stop you john. john. John this is not korea by atheist We heard these from christians when we were christians and when we had questions we were sort of you know smacked on the hand. I remember the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Is what got us in this mess. Proverbs three five says. Lean not on your own. Understanding the devil is a deceiver after all. So you bringing those science books into your house is going to create this. This evil spirit Pat robertson's telling us we need to go bless hoodies that we get from goodwill because demons can live in them and then if you bring science books and harry potter and other things into your house. This is how the lord creeps in so a lot of people listening right now. Were christians at one point and they were these verses were used against them by believers who are in leadership. This is not something that atheists created out of thin air. Well those those believers right as we're gonna talk about women especially when we get into contact with ravi zacharias People can take the word. They can take scripture and they can apply their own meaning to it. That doesn't mean that's what it means. Go right so just because someone says. Hey here's what this means. Listen up little indoctrinated human That's that's not the case there's plenty of times especially in my recent study where i've just been listening to a pastor preaching. I'm just like no that. That's that's that's not the context that's not that's not what it means and so the same applies here when we're looking at the psalms under understand we're looking at proverbs. We're looking at very poetic language. There's of things that david said there's tons of things that solomon said and whatever writers were also existent within this. There's tons of things that they said that are not meant to be taken in a literal sense. How it's applied and how it's has preached by someone else that's on them and that's on they're looking at the con context and basically just ignoring. There's tons of poetic things in there. So it's not the point in what i'm saying. This is being applied to meaning and connected to the tree and we should not think for ourselves. It goes against the literally everything having to do with scripture in terms of study in terms of Like blind getting away. From blind faith. So john i really want to get back on ravi zacharias but that's fine over. This is my last chance to debate with you. So i don't want to let this go. This is bigger than just the garden of eden. This is bigger than just proverbs. It's in deuteronomy saying you shall not put your lord god to the test deuteronomy six sixteen Do with understanding just respect to. It's not so much about understanding. It's that if if you start to test or challenge your beliefs or you start to challenge the scripture right. These verses are used against you these verses like proverbs three five and the genesis story and deuteronomy sixteen and even in matthew. I think it's jesus that says you shall not put your lord god to the test Romans to twelve talks about it as well Not not being transformed by. What is it heresy or your your interpretation of heresy or whatever the in front of me and even james says that you know god does not tempt man. Well i if if i'm having challenges and then a preacher comes to me and says something like you know Lean not on your own understanding proverbs three five or flips over to you know Many false prophets will be out there but do not test. God bless flip. The first john four. And let's isaiah say do not put the lord to the test there's tons of versus that you can bounce back and forth from that can be used against a thinking person who is challenging. You know Scripture or saying how do we know we can trust paul or how do we know peter's trustworthy or how do we know who actually wrote matthew. Was it a person named matthew or is this anonymous author as you start to dig deep as a believer while you're in the faith which i was by the way in many many of my listeners. Were to those verses in that idea that you're not supposed to think for yourself hammered into your head and those of us who fight through it and continue to challenge it typically come out of the faith and then we are used as examples right. Especially if you're in like jehovah's witnesses see he let the devil into his heart. He started thinking for himself. He started using science as his new religion. And then we're sort of cast out or people don't wanna talk to us and we're not invited to the cookout anymore and separated from family members all because in it all starts at the center. Core of we were thinking for ourselves. We were challenging god. we were challenging scripture. We didn't understand something so we pushed back. We raised our hand too many times in bible. Study and we're asked to leave. Like i get atheist after eight years after atheist writing me saying i was asking questions and i was told to shut up. I was kicked out a bible study. I was told not to come to sunday school. This is a does repetitive things. those are just pat. Churches bad people like him. We also have versus like proverbs. Three thirteen blessed is the one who finds wisdom and the one who gets understanding in proverbs for seven the beginning of wisdom. Is this get wisdom and whatever you get get insight so this is talking about contractually what we're actually doing is we are specifically searching out wisdom. Okay there's another one and i'm sure we should. We should have an argument. We should have an argument where all we do is respond to each other with bible verses. I think that would be a fun thing to do. Because now i'm doing. Second corinthians five says walk by faith not by sight and we could just keep going back. Of course that's part of my problem with the bible. Is it so contradictory. But i think the bible repeatedly tells you the faith is more important than your works. And i think there are. There are good arguments to be out on both sides. Just like when. Adam came on the show and you guys both had bible verses backing up your position. I think this is the same thing. I think the here. You can make a good case with bible verses that you're supposed to think that you're supposed to be thoughtful that you're supposed to think things through and then i can lay out another. You know bunch of verses. I'm sure open bible dot info has a whole. You know how. That's what i had had to tabs open on open open bible dot info and it was like one hundred bible verses about free will and hundred bible verses about predestination and you guys both had both had. Yeah i pulled it up right now. Yeah open bible dot info One hundred bible verses about testing god. And there's there's a ton of them there's more than one hundred i think i can just keep. Its assam. that second corinthians it's isaiah its job it's romans it's titus it's hebrews it's revelation at salm again. Matthew romans philippians hebrews. It just goes on and on and on about you. Agreement in terms of that The bible does contain errors and contradictions. I do not believe that the bible is in eric. Okay i i. I do not believe that there are not issues within it especially when you start getting into some of the chapters. A better added in later. Manuscripts like john chapter eight and all of these different things. When you start getting into those things you see okay. These were added later. These are not original. These are so like that Mark sixteen when when that's added in and you have the verse that comes in where it says. handle snakes and scorpions won't be harmed and now we have people literally in churches holding snakes and getting bit in the neck. I don't know if you ever saw that video. Oh no there was a that reality star died from that the guy that was leading that that service dot literally died from it they had a whole tv show about believers who played with snakes. I think it was in kentucky and the guy died from it so a bit in the neck. Snakes you bid and so There are problems. I do not believe. Scripture is an errand. But i believe it's infallible in. Its message to give truth. So what i mean by that is it's not going to fail in its pursuit for people Which which it doesn't so i wanna say is In problems twenty five to it is the glory of god to conceal a matter but it is the glory of kings to search out in matter so there there are plenty of scriptures and that's where context comes in so desperately because i know atheist sick of hearing the word context but own. My gosh context matters if i say to you. Hey this this actually this. This goes on the video that we talk about. Robbie if i say to you i shot a dog in the face today and it made me smile right. You're gonna look at me like i'm a horrible person. You're gonna look at me like a mobile individual. Oh my gosh. She shot a dog in the face. And then you smiled about. But now i'm going to tell you the context of it. Now i'm gonna tell you that the dog was trying to attack my daughter and before it reached its target. I shot it in the face in. It made me happy that my daughter was saying. There is a context to scripture. There is a context to the psalms. There's a context to the proverbs. There's a context to all of these things in who is being spoken to. Who is speaking. Is it relevant for just that culture is it meant to be applied for today all of these things matter because when you take something out of context you lose. It's true meeting took the ever shoot a dog and smile. Never speak to you again. You monster it was attack attack a baby girl. Still reason to smile at argue about something else later. Let me explain the to the people really quick before while we were recording. Just trying to get the mic check. My daughter was like You don't you don't have to explain it and specifically david said. I sounded like that. While i was on the toilet so we were doing soundcheck and yeah i hear your daughter back. They're going she was getting. I don't know if this is. This is what it sounds like being youth pastor. John's daughter could you imagine coming home every day. You realize that's my dad that that sound should replace the smallest by the frustration chamber. I listened monica. Get royalties from it. All allow it. I'm gonna keep it loaded. In case i needed. So when put this over here you start to frustrate the listener. I will i will. I will pull. I promise you guys will get frustrated. Here in a little wasn't even upset. Actually she was just playing and talking to you and then that sound came out of nowhere. I was like. That's great and you just happen to be record and so it's not so on ravi so So so christianity. Today i'm gonna read a few Sections from the christianity today report. It says a twelve page report released thursday ravi zacharias international ministries confirms abuse by zacharias at day spas he owned in atlanta and uncovers five additional victims in the us as well as evidence of sexual abuse in thailand india and malaysia even a limited review of zachariah old devices guessing phones revealed contacts for more than two hundred massage therapists in the united states and asia and hundreds of images of young women including some that showed the women naked zacharias solicited and received photos up until a few months before his death. In may of twenty twenty at age seventy four zacharias used tens of thousands of dollars of ministry funds dedicated to quote humanitarian efforts to pay four massage therapists providing them housing schooling and monthly support for extended periods of time. According to investigators one woman told the investigators quote after he arranged for the ministry to provide me with financial support. He required sex from me. She referred to that as rape. She then said zachariah quote made her pray with him to thank god. Thank god for the opportunity. They both received and as well as other victims called her his reward for living a life of service to god and finally the report says that zachariah warned the women and this one particular fellow believer of course that if she ever spoke out against him or told anybody what he was doing she would personally be responsible for millions of souls or last to hell when his reputation was damaged. Oh my goodness. I mean so you know this is not. I don't know that this is the time for atheist. Dance on the grave of ravi zacharias and be like Christians we told you we win. You're stupid that's not it but what it does do. And i think i mentioned this to you in one of our private phone calls. What would it what it does do. Is it sort of brings to light the dangers of blindly following a quote man of god right or thinking someone has a direct line to god. An can can have that sort of power now. Of course that okay. So atheists can of course abused power. It happens all the time. i'm sure i think. Donald trump is an atheist and probably the worst example of it People can abuse power despite being an atheist. They don't always you know. Atheism and morality don't always running in in in in hand to hand. sorry. I got distracted by message. No you're fine but but but but at the same time hold on but at the same time this idea that if you if you tell anybody thousands of people will go to hell eighth. Theus can't do that. So what i'm saying. Is that christian. Women specifically are are of course you know. They are just as susceptible as atheists. Women are in every other area that atheist women are but it's like christianity offers this level of. I'm a man of god. I have this power. You submit to men. I'm the head of the church you should submit to me and yada yada yada sort of comes with this. I am a man. I am more powerful sort of mentality that there no doctrine of atheism or humanism that teaches women that they should stay subservient or quiet or anything like that around a man so it does bring an extra of i think danger for women in the in in christian ministries to be abused in this sense. Because there's this extra layer of power that christianity brings with it. Well i disagree because it doesn't really matter the tactics of the manipulation that they're everyone has tactics that they could use to manipulate someone right so at odds use an example right. Because you have you have a podcast. You have tactics that you could use to manipulate someone. Obviously you never would that. I do not have access to right you. You could manipulate someone through Grooming them on your podcast or grooming them through messaging or anything like that let. Let's look at money for example. And i think this is a really good explanation of this just because religion offers another tactic of manipulation does not inherently mean. Religion is back right. Didn't say the respect. I didn't say that. I said i said women who believe in that are are are susceptible to an extra line of abuse that it's just an but it's just an extra line of abuse Like i said it for someone who's rich right. They have an extra line of abuse. Been a poor person happy because they can use their money to manipulate. And that's actually what ravi even continued to do as you read through article you see that he used money he used ministry money specifically to do this Not just his own funds. He took it out of the ministry and gave it to these therapists and gave it to these massage people and said here. I'll help you financially. I'll help you help you with your bills. And he's using ministry funds for this. So i i think it is a really key point that we have to remember just because there is another way that christians can manipulate over eight years. It's the same way as someone who has money can manipulate over someone who doesn't have money The the number of manipulation tactics doesn't really change anything personally right. Even it's wrong no matter what and i do not want anyone. I do not want any christian. I don't want any atheist to get the idea that i am defending robbie zachariah. Meet be clear what he did. He is a fred deter her. He is a calculated manipulative serial rapist. Okay is that clear enough. Grant absolutely move on all right so in that though. I am defending that. You made a statement that said Women putting trust in pastors or women putting trust in people and you gave it like a negative connotation. There are people that trust me. There're people that call me when they need help because m trustworthy but just because it comes down to that old saying a bad apple spoils the bunch right. It does not mean that people can still put trust in their pastors. That's that's the only distinction i wanna make. It does not mean people cannot put trust in their pastors does not allow people cannot put trust in leaders of faith but you have also got to be super careful one thing i never ever do. I am never alone with teenage girl. I'm a youth pastor. I am never alone with a teenage girl. If i am the only one here before you service and a girl walks in i walk out because there has got to be accountability and that is something that the ministry of ours he i m failed on because of their trust in their leader and that is something ravi fail. Yeah and like i said they successfully defended him in a suit a few years ago and they address that in the extended twelve page report. If anyone wants to see this. Just google ravi zacharias. And then it's it's our av i Ravi zacharias and then christianity today. It'll be the first one that comes up. They have a link right there in the in the verse sentence. It says eight hundred page report. There's a link there not just pulled it up. And there's the twelve page report from february ninth twenty twenty one and they do honestly they do a great job of saying we were wrong we. We're sorry were very very sorry that we did this. We put a lot of trust in human. We shouldn't have and took full responsibility. They they really did. They really did it. That's good yeah but you know an another of is within the investigation. Okay in this. This is a super important parts of this article within the investigation. The investigator said we have no evidence at all that anyone in ours. The i am knew about the sexual behavior. That is a really important part to this. Because i do not want people starting to get the idea that ours. Ein is just some sort of prostitution rate right. They don't clearly say within their investigation. No one knew no. There is no evidence that anyone but let me so. Let me defend what i said originally because i think this is still a very important point as to why i care what people believe why i care about women leaving the ministry and i think every woman should leave the ministry. Here's why it's because anything that you could say right now. If you could give any examples of things atheists have done or could do to manipulate someone under them. were a woman. Let's just be clear. We know that sexual assault manipulation goes both ways on the on the gender spectrum and multiple ways on the gender spectrum But we know that the majority of offenders are male. So let's just be real about that. It's usually men doing it women. So let's just talk in those terms for now so so so anything that you could say well. An atheist could do this. An atheist with power could do this to an atheist. Woman anything that you say could also be with christians right so any any say could still do this with religion not to Will hold on. Let me hold on. Hold on hold on. No no no no not an not an atheist woman. My point is that christian women have this especially in fundamentalist christianity. They have this certain belief in god right that threat of hell for example that that ravi obviously used quite often as stated in many of his victim. Impact statements that i've read. They all say the same thing that he threatened me with thousands of souls. Going to hell and it would be my fault. There's no one person that said. No no no no it says as with others and had there are individual victim impact stinks. Okay yeah and and there. There are individual victim impact statements. Some of the women went on youtube and read their own victim. Impact statement publicly. So you're you can go see from the actual victims themselves. That this was a common thing that he used where he said A lot of people will go to hell. If you ruin my reputation. Are you going to be able to sleep at night. You'll be personally responsible for sending people to hell so well now something like john. Let me finish that. That concept would not work with an atheist woman. She would not be concerned with sending people to hell right. That would never be. Obviously that's there'll be just as bound not because of hell. Well not because of hell so here. Here's the here's what i mean right. There is never. So they're there this. It is a statistical impossibility that ravi sat down with a woman and says have sex with me or millions of people are gonna go to hell. It doesn't make sense okay. What ravi did was he groomed. Women okay so that that is the first starting point. Ravi zacharias groomed women right john. There's john this is your answering around the whole thing. The whole point. There's an added layer for christian women who believe one that men are the house hall into the sexual not to fall into to the rape culture. Any any tactic innately the any tactic. An atheist could use it would work on an atheist. woman would also could also work on a christian woman. My whole point is that christian women have an added layer of manipulation because they believe people could go to hell where they believe that men should be head of the household. They are taught to be submissive by the word of god but it is only a layer of manipulation in terms of telling someone okay that. That's that's the distinction that needs to be made it only or layer of manipulation in terms of telling my point here john is that the culture and christianity is that women should submit. Women should be submissive. Women should should remain quiet. That is over. That is an overarching issue within within christianity that the man is the head of the household. And now what do you say. As far as a man being the head of a ministry and your husband is looking up to this man and that man comes to you and starts touching you and groping you inappropriately. Okay you have all the same power dynamics that you can have an atheist organization or just completely secular just a religious just you know a rockstar and abandoned in a road or or a ceo at a at a tech company and a secretary or vice president right you can have that power dynamic anywhere. My point is that the christian belief fosters modesty. It fostered submissiveness in women and fosters. This idea that she could send souls to hell. And those atheist or secular people wouldn't have that added layer of manipulation. That's all. I'm trying to say so. The added layer manipulation. And this is the only distinction. I'm trying to make what you're saying. The added layer of manipulation has to do with not actually being abused but telling about your abuser. That's the i know. no. I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. Because i think that that concept grooming process. I understand my point. Is that you know my daughter growing up as an atheist has never looked at men as being closer to god or more important than women or able to reach some level of a position in life or a milk hazardous priesthood she. She's always viewed males as equals to her and so it it's a different culture john. It's a completely different mindset. When she looks at a man she sees him as a male counterpart that can also compete with that. She can challenge his authority and he can challenge her authority and the best ideas are going to win out but in the christian culture. It doesn't work that way. The christian culture in general the man will not be challenged by a woman and he has the bible back him up. I would not say in general There are still sects of christianity. Out there that requires missus. Submissiveness out of whiz out of winning but the majority of catholicism protestantism when you start getting into orthodox denominations you get more of that. I would not let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. You have a daughter yes issue. Will she ever be able allowed to grow up and hold the position that you hold at your church. Yes so you're pentecostal and you allow women to hold positions of authority over men correct oca- because so this this again. This goes to the context of shooting the dog. This is super important. Who is paul talking to. When he says these church of corinth. What is the context that who is the message given to church a coined right. This this is the whole point about shooting the dog when you look at the context it is given from a cultural perspective. It is getting given in a letter to waste specific church having to do with things that were happening in the church and not say huge distinction. So i ever so. Whatever he said in his writings that women are that men are the head of the household was that also just for the church of corinth or was that speaking for god no so when it comes to the household right when it comes to the household. I believe that men are the why the same guy that said. It said it right whenever he said that men were also the head of the church and that women should not speak. It's all this is all coming from the same source. So you're saying that part is still for this time so there there's two different distinctions though there's one in talking to a church specifically and then there's one talking about the role of of marriage there's one talking and it goes back to the story of creation right adam was created i right but couldn't your wife or your daughter say yeah. Yeah but that was for those people back. Then he was speaking directly to the romans he wrote that in a letter to the romans or he wrote that to timothy in second timothy. Two eleven speaking about these people or he was talking to the church of print. In first corinthians fourteen it was all very specific screw. Yeah it's not just paul. Though we we see this all throughout the design of men and women through through scripture in terms of the family. The family is a very important distinction churches. One distinction in the family is another distinction. Right so right. So right there. John right there. You're you're you're you're proving my point for me. It's all about the design from a very young age. Young women in christianity are taught that men hold a certain level of authority that they will never obtain ever because they are a man they have special ordination special contact with god they are seen as the head of the household and that is ordained by god and so they are lifted up. So yes a man. In a christian household tends to have more power more authority and more control than a man in an atheist household just in general So here's here's the distinction. Though having to do with like l- let me give you an example of my wife. And i right. I have only ever used my quote unquote authority over her. One time. okay with the movie. Is the moving story to georgia Moving to florida flow. Sorry from georgia to florida right. Yeah from georgia to florida. Have i told this story. Yeah because we we were talking about how you were a dominant male I think on the first episode. No this wasn't the first episode by any means. Oh i've lost. I've lost count. Clearly even i even got out on episode with the wrong number in not knowing how what do we do see and this is why. I think this is important. What do we do in terms of A situation that arises to where both parties are against each other's opinions they have differing opinions on the situation. How is there ever a point of compromise or reason if they completely disagree coup in that relationship. Do we just completely dissolve the relationship because we can agree on. Now we've we've had this conversation. Look it's about the ideas winning out it's about being open and having communication it's about a log. It's about persuasive argument. In convincing it's also about giving a little uncompromising and doing things out of larry but nobody should ever be like well. I'm pulling my penis card. You don't get a say anymore. We're moving to florida like that that that would never fly in an atheist relationship. And that's my point. John that's my entire point is that christianity breeds a culture of male superiority throughout the bible throughout the context and even in sunday school for children. They are always being taught that women are different. Women are unclean. Women are lower than women are less than so yeah. I think it's pretty fair to say it would be a little easier for a male in a church setting to manipulate women into a sexual abuse situation. Then a man who doesn't have that culture in that power in a secular organization not to say they can't do it because they do. There's just an added layer. And i don't wanna keep talking in circles here but i think it's pretty clear that christianity throughout history has multiple different periods of abuse and abuse of power and sexual abuse. And keeping those people quiet under the guise. Of god's watching this is your punishment. I had someone on this show one time. Tell me that. She was sexually assaulted in a closet and as it was happening. The male who was in charge was telling her this was her punishment for being bad or for wearing a certain type of clothing or not coming to so now you still when she was just a person of course it is of course it is but it's but this weapon of christianity is being used to control because women women it is when women are raised in a culture from a very young age that they should be less than submissive to men it does breed the culture were that type of thing can run rampant. Just so this were. I set up about money so when you say. Christianity is a weapon in this way right. You're making a very very absolute statement. That christianity is a weapon. But i go back to my money. Example money is not evil. Inherently money can be used for someone just like ravi did he can use money to groom someone. He can use money in order to gain their trust and give them nice things. Money can be used for evil but money itself is not iraq. But we talk. Someone takes something in uses as easy manipulation does not make a weapon. Okay fine but when you become an atheist you remove christianity as a potential weapon that can be used against you because not a seattle atheists evil people fine but not a single atheist woman could be convinced to keep her mouth shut about an abuser for the threat of hell or because of some submissive bible text. But you also you lose things in the process right so in christianity being used as a manipulation. Do you lose that. Yeah but you also lose the benefits of christianity as well. Really say what i said. What would that be. What's the benefit of christianity that you don't get with humanism. Let's say community. Yeah there's yeah i agree. But there's plenty of communities that exist without religion exist but there's tons of people that aren't partaking in and there are eight their tons of communities of people who gather and help each other don't even mention religion and i wouldn't call that an atheist community but no but an atheist and you have had community within a church for most of your life right. You're no sister owens over you know brother so and so and everything like that young you become an atheist you leave the church and then if you more seclude yourself you're not. You're not going out with groups of people multiple times a week like you did when you were going to. Church community is a very important thing. Yeah yes. I completely agree that there are atheist groups that there are atheist communities that the giants size for you. It's not worth it sometimes. Okay it's just not worth it and that community can become really superficial the second you start to appear less than a perfect christian and let me tell you. I have had hundreds literally. Hundreds of phone calls over the years from pastors preachers christians. Priests you name it. Who will be going through something in life and they will call me to be an ear. Because they can't call any of their christian friends for fear of judgement for fear of gossiping in the church for fear of for fear of losing their job as a preacher because their wife is leaving them. I had one night of drinking. And i hadn't drank and twenty six years but i drink one night now. My wife was leaving me. And i'm gonna lose my preaching job. And what do i. Why did you call me what you is there. Somebody man 'cause. I know you're not going to judge me. Help me out. Those types of things have happened for years john. So yeah you have community if you wanna you know bring a casserole and have play and go to the lake and have an easter egg hunt but when it really counts when you really need somebody to step up and be there for you and see your humanity that christian community will judge the hell out of you and you know it. People are just judgmental in general it does again. It's just not. It's not exclusive to the christian community riot. So let's let's say you're you work at a business right and you're working at this business and you do something wrong and you do not want your coworkers to find out so you call someone who's just not involved in in the situation. Yeah that's that's a very common thing. She'll just humanity that you do not want to involve anyone with any type of situation because people themselves are judgmental. Christians are judgmental and those. I hate that perspective of christianity. That all we are judgy i hate it i hate i hate it i hate it i hate it and i can't i can't help all i can do is be the best christian i possibly can be and i can be loving like jesus was i can sit there with the center and break bread like if you came to town you center i would i would sit down i would eat with you. We'd have a great time. Sure pasta mike from tar. He's coming here. He's gonna do an interview with me that he that he wants to put up just as christian and stuff he's going to be doing that I in later next month or something like that. I'm going to break bread with him. If an atheist walks into my church. I want to be the type of christian that says. Ask any questions you want. I tell my kids all the time. Don't just take my word for it. Please look at it for yourself. Understand it for yourself. They are now morally culpable. Whether or not they are going to take my words just believe them or whether or not they are actually going to look at it. But i try and be the best christian i can be and i am training others to be the best christians that they can. That's what i'm doing as a youth pastor. I'm saying search it out. Figure it out love people in that. That is the key right sure. There are bad christians. There are bad atheists but i. It's it's just you want to be the best atheist you can be. You want the best human being that you can be. I wanna be the best human being. I can be and i believe that christianity makes me into the best human being i can. Yes see my. My atheism is just an opinion on a single thing. It's not the whole of my character. It doesn't make me good. It doesn't make me bad. It doesn't have anything to do with who i am as person my i said humanity right you you wanted to. Humanism is is is predicated on the atheism right. I don't believe there's a a higher power out there watching over me so my goodness comes from a different place and honestly to be frank with you. I think that your goodness comes from the same place. My goodness comes from you've just been taught to attributed to a higher power when really the goodness comes from within yourself. Goodness comes from the goodness that my goodness comes from britain. The moral law on your shoe. That no no suck as i get my morals from god you can suck it. What a great you blind john. No i don't. I think the evidence there is that your god behaves terribly immorally even according to christian moral standards so for him to behave the way he does throughout the throughout the old testament. And then that's where we're supposed to get on morality from it just doesn't compute that something can behave in such a way that is so anti moral or or immoral and then tell me that he is the source of morality when he's pegging the scales just charge of immorality. According to the scale he allegedly gave me. It's counterintuitive and it doesn't make any it doesn't make any sense that he would be that however humanism in itself treating people with respect and dignity and equality which we're gonna get into In the cancer me. Like jesus command. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. No because that commandments existed way before jesus ever did if he did exist at all that commandment was around for years at that commandment wasn't it wasn't called a command but people were loving each other and respecting each other year thousands of years before jesus ever walked so let me just trying to act like he created. The idea of love is just absurd. People were respecting each other. And loving each other before jesus ever existed so so in. One of my quotes is saying that that that morality came from the bible is like saying words came from a dictionary both only recorded what already existed within us. We use the words first and then the book goes. Hey we should record. That people were already loving each other. Jesus isn't some brilliant guy who thought of love for the first time. Okay okay. i've got to address something you said. Okay i know we said we're doing three topics but we're on like no. I can't believe you're defending ravi zacharias. This isn't crests. Yod up okay. Wow let me ask you one question. Okay because you just said something if he existed at all that just and let me ask you one question. Who is the most influential impactful recognized. History person through all of human history of hitler. Wrong the answer. The answer is jesus right. I didn't even think i i'll give you. I'll give you the answer. Okay literally most. Okay hold on s. Megan asked me note. Ask me again. i'll get it right this. You're no nope. You're still gonna say hiller. I swear i won't say i'm going to get it right this time. Try again okay. Who is the most influential reputable notable person throughout all of history. Jon bon jovi. Gosh darn it. I think truthfully though i thought jeez jesus is the answer right. He has acted human history in such a way religion. It's not going anywhere. Christianity is not going anywhere to say what is it. That's not what the internet has to say a believe. It's a declining pretty fast with each generation. Okay decline declining you re. Do you really think just outta here. Do you really think that one day will. You'll live in an on an earth without chris. I don't know that. I will live here to see it but the pew research surveys are definitely showing That the the older a person is the more likely they are to be religious. Younger generations are letting go of religion They're also able to google things with machines in their in their pockets. The eight year olds are not necessarily on board with that at this time And the more information we have the less likely we are to believe. Someone's bullshit so we're able to fact check more quickly The internet is more available. And i think people are just embracing one another. They're being more progressive. they're loving one another. They're less judgy they're welcoming you know of lgbtq. I and it just seems like we're moving away from the divisiveness and the old stories and fables of talking animals. I think we're we're evolving out of the need for religion in general as a human's normal atheist trope if if if god is possible. Miracles are possible. God is possible therefore miracles are possible period anyway so for the math lesson. I appreciate them. Yeah no that's philosophy for you so you i'm telling you you turned me into this. It's your fault that i i know how to actually form a sentence with talking to an atheist. Now yeah not necessarily a coherent one just yet but yet you got the sentence cart down so but my my point is when someone an atheist tells me that jesus didn't exist or they don't think that jesus existed. I don't know if we if we currently look. I said i said but your. Here's here's the thing you're saying that about a human being that if he didn't exist then a myth is the most notable person in human history well so currently. Let's just say well. Let's just say this so. Christianity has absolutely been the dominating force of almost all cultures in terms of majority of the ovulation dude. You live in him. You live in american. You're staring at your own belly button. I would not say that at all there are. There are more muslims on this planet than there are christians so timeout with that christianity their largest sure. There are no there aren't there aren't there is a rise in islamic faith but there are not more muslims than there are christians. Not even close. Not even gosh get your facts together next time before we can talk to me in two thousand seventeen. There were two billion muslims in the world. what does that mean for christianity. How many it's about the same one point nine one point eight. It varies from year to year. But they're they're they're just about neck and neck. Sometimes there are more. Muslims sometimes more christians in this year. It says one point eight billion muslims. Two point two billion christians. Okay so currently i'm right. No this was to. This is october two thousand eighteen. It varies so much. I thought you just said this year this year that i was looking at on the screen this year. He told me what is twenty twenty. One say i don't know we haven't counted yet because we're not done with the year yet. I don't know. I guess we'll tell twenty. Twenty about twenty twenty alluded way. There are more non-christians. In the world than there are christians in the world. We've got we've got a little over seven and a half billion people in only two billion her christians on any given year. So i wouldn't say it's dominant. You know it's dominant in this country So yeah i mean. I don't know. What are we arguing about that. What's the point i owe about. Jesus maybe not existing. Here's the thing at least. Here's here's the thing. Yes there was a guy yes there. There were tons of people who went by. It was a very common name. It'd be like being named josh or daniel david today. It's very john. It's very common to have that name. So yeah could it have been based on someone that had that name. Sure i could have been Piece together through multiple people one guy did something kinda cool and other guy did something kind of cool and it evolved over time to being this this deified overtime. Sure so could there have been a guy walking around that people referred to in a name that we would translate an english and say jesus sure yeah but this individual person in the bible walking on water turning water into wine rubbing mud and guys. I and spitting on him to cure his blindness. I don't know that we have evidence to that guy was really here and i don't know in fact. The text read very good evidence. That guy was really hear ya whether or not you believe. He performed the supernatural. Let let let's see two point. Say let's take all the supernatural out of the gospels. You still have the testimony of who jesus was was it. S not him who know. It's still no. It's i'm 'cause then you can just point to a random guy on the street that went by yeshua and say see there. A guy named issue in claim to be the messiah and was crucified. By polonius of in there were tons of people who claim to be the messiah. Oh no apple oneal tionna a okay. So listen if you want to have a debate if you want if you want to have a debate on the historical jesus you're not allowed to say this is your last podcast. So yeah you know. That's it so let's just let's just move back in to ravi and enwrap that up with get into The last podcast piece of it so What has that done anything. I guess to your faith. Because you know what i've seen on youtube from all the christians covering this. They're like this to my faith. 'cause there's nothing ravi said that other apologists and i in terms of studying the bible in studying the christian fake. There's nothing that ravi said that. is just astronomically some sort of miraculous vision or anything like that you saying the same things. It's just apologised can put things in different ways so before before this happened before the scandal came out even before the allegations a few years ago that he was successfully defended in the now. They're saying he should not have been defended. He was wrong then to even before all of that came out. Would you have told me and be honest here. John god's watching yeah sure. Would you have told me that. That ravi zacharias had special communication with god No more than i have that any of us have or that you in ravi. You're just that special. No i think bible says seek me and you'll find me if you seek me with all your heart. I commute so communication is two ways. I believe that. God communicates with me Not in an audible booming voice. But it's going to be you'll you'll like this and this is not any meant to be sacrilege but this is literally the way i think of it. It's like the urge to p okay. Speaking of which means you take a break soon go ahead. That's honestly how i like it. So when i'm praying about something or when. I know that there is something god wants me to do. It is so clear to me like it in the way when you to be really bad you the urge comes on your and you're like oh my gosh i have to pee and so you recognize this urge within you and then you act on it so when i know that it is to just you just drove. There's media somewhere was getting a little sleepy and then you do play that. They shook up a little while driving down the road. Hopefully you didn't cause an accident okay. So and that's really what it is to me. It's this indescribable recognition and urge in order to do something was nation is so so do you believe god was communicating directly with ravi and inspiring him to lead this ministry. No it so. If you would've asked me prior. I would say yes based on allah. Now i say no okay but you would have said yes based on what i would say yes. Just based off of the appearance that was given to the public case trustworthy and everything like that yes so it's important to acknowledge then that the appearance of godliness and holiness can exist within a void of an evil human being absolutely and even says that in scripture. You're like basically quoting scripture right now. What beware of those they have a form of godliness but deny the power and you also recognize that when someone gets to heaven. They'll say lord. Did we not do these things in your name. We not cast out demons. Do we not heal the sick. And he looks at them and says behold i never knew. That's not talking about atheist. Talking about christian it's matthew seven twenty one. Yes oh i it's it's it's that recognition of Yeah that's all it is. It's a form of godliness it. It's a it's a shadow. That is false. Decided better david so he then just got really good at scripture Lied with everything. He was doing manipulated. People but somehow still Like i guess. I'm trying to figure out how. Why god this arbiter of morality that you hold him up as why god would allow Someone to carry his his mantra for seventy four years apart you know a crew millions and millions of dollars in his name have millions of followers and fans around the world and use that power to sexually abuse women for who knows how many years this went on because the ultimate message of the scripture is the gospel of christ right. God can use evil people to accomplish greater purpose but that power but that power that he gained. Using god's name is what gave him the power to do the abusing and to not get caught. No that's not. We gave him the power to not get caught that's the ministries fault for not holding him accountable knowing the multiple who said on john you said earlier that that their fear of hell or their fear of sending those people to hell is what kept his victims quiet. Oh yeah that's what kept his victims quiet but the fact that he was able to do this at all lays on the shoulders of the ministry right so it within my church right. I my cell phone okay. It has It is completely paid for by the church. Because it's my business phone. It's what all my students call me on. It's how i use it for ministry. I use it for personal. But they do that. To hold me accountable. So if ever they wanted to pull my search history or poll my records or pull something to make sure got it. They have that ability to hold me accountable right. He did not have that. The ministry allowed him to have multiple cell phones. They allowed him to have his own wireless network for security reasons. Like it's all in the article can. How how misstep. How many misteps they took. In terms of holding them accountable. The ministry and so is the ministry at fault for not finding ways to put a stop to robbie's behaviour They didn't know about it until after he was dead it's the ministries fault for not holding him accountable allowing him to get it like. Did you read the article. Hold on. I'm getting to something very specific. Yeah okay go ahead. What what was your so. If so the ministry you do hold the ministry accountable. For not holding him accountable. You think the ministry has -solutely so then mid even hold himself accountable to that. They mentioned right so the ministry has some culpability even in what happened to these young women because they didn't do what they could within their power to stop it court well not within their power to stop it but to to allow it to even begin within s- not putting safeguards for their ministry leaders. Okay could god have stopped it. Yes do you hold him to the same standard of having culpability in these women being harmed because he knew about it he was watching and he allowed it to continue. That's far worse than what the ministry did right. Do you sell it. God accountable so this this goes into the problem of evil right. That's that's basically what you're getting at. The question is why you would hold human beings to the standard right and say that they are. They are culpable and accountable. If they knew anything and they are even killed culpable even when they didn't know because they didn't put practices into place to make sure they could no and check up on the literal founder of their organization. They have some culpability. But according to your same belief john god was in the room during the rape got allowed ravi to use his name to gain the power got allowed ravi to use the threat of hell to keep his victims quiet and sat in the room during the sexual assaults and rape and did nothing and you think he has a higher morality than the two of us so when it comes to god's morality when it comes to the question of evil we have to. I answer the question. I know i had to tell you we going here. We have to. I answer the question of. Why is it immoral from an atheist perspective. No we don't. We don't have to talk about that from an atheist perspective. And we don't need it to be dragged into an atheist versus christian debate. I'm a christian. Now you're a christian. We are both christians. We are both a part of our z. I am we both get our morals from god. We would both hold the board Accountable if they knew this was going on and covered up for ravi. And now i'm looking at you as a fellow christian where we have christian values. And i'm saying if. I was in the room. I would have stopped it. If you were in the room you would have stopped it. If we had seen video as board members of it happening we would have stopped it. If we have seen pictures or text messages we would have stopped it. Godsall every single bit of it and did nothing. I as an nothing that atheists have to say has anything to do with this. This is about christian values christian morality and the christian god being in the room during the abuse of power from a christian man of god and he does nothing. The board of directors should be held accountable. You say the same about god so here. Here is very simple but complex. Answer right within reality. That god controls. He knows the future as well right. We are first. Debate was about the omnipotence. Omniscience omnipresence of god right and we actually went into something subjects. Because god knows the future. There's a recognized. There's a wreck Recognization record breaking speeds. We are able to recognize within scripture recognition. He's looking for thank you so much. Okay there's a recognition within scripture that. God works all things together for the good. He looks at hosea at a certain point. And says if. I told you what i was doing. You wouldn't even believe me. So there is a greater good. That comes out suffering. There is a greater good. That comes out of evil that is. That is my answer. Us being as christians were not god. We do not know what happens in the future. We don't know what's going to happen in the next ten minutes. Let me ask you a question now. You didn't answer mine john. I'm asking if you hold god accountable to the same standard. No i can't. I don't have the power to hold gynecologist. Sure you like. I do i sure you do. I can say this. God if he was in the room while it was happening in his omnipresence and chose to do nothing bound it. That is not a god that i deem worthy of my worship and i refuse to thout. That's not accountability. I refuse the worst sure. That's what i mean by accountability. I if i if i if i'm following somebody on twitter and they're constantly saying misogynous shit i can follow them and i'm saying i'm not going to be a part of that. I'm not gonna re tweet. I'm gonna about their comedy album. I'm going to go a different direction. I'm not going to be a part of that lunacy right so that's the that's the thing you will still you know you know that god is omnipresent. That means you know that. God was in the room while ravi was doing this and allowed his name to be used to do these things and get the money and people were tricked into giving money that they thought was for the ministry and ravi ravi was using money to buy women things and then tell them they owed him sex for it. So god was allowing ravi to use his name and used the ministry money and allow thousands of people to be duped into giving millions even duped into giving lousy and then sat in the room and watched it and then sat in the room and watched it. And you were looking at the god that sitting next to ravi. Who's raping a woman in. You're going someday. I'm gonna get to bow to that guy because there is a greater good in just. It's like the analogy that Prejudice chan uses with the rope and the little red line. This life is so so short compared to what he turned is so the the fact the only thing i recognized and it's consistent with scripture is that god allows evil for a greater it is consistent throughout all of scripture everywhere. You look at joseph being sold into slavery by his brothers. But what did it do in the end we would say. Oh my gosh. Look at what god did he is there he is. He is in the desert with all these brothers. They threw their brother and tool well then they took his coat. They put lambs blood on it. I'm playing atheist right now. Really quick god is allowing all of this to happen then. They pulled them out of the wizards. Your hat on sideways is your hat on side. That's that's your clavell. Best atheists your best. Atheists hat is on sideways. And you're talking to really dumb voice because that's how we all look Yeah so all right here. It is okay. So here's my voice. Alright so god allowed all these things. He allowed joseph to be taken out of the well soul into slavery. He allowed him to be thrown into prison. He allowed all of these things. He's just standing in the room. But what did it do. It saved all of egypt in the end and he literally says what god what mandate meant for evil. God has made for good. There is a recognition of what god knows in is going to happen in the future of a greater good that is going to come about by allowing evil thing. So god consistent scripts so god is not all powerful no. He is all powerful than he wouldn't need this evil shit to happen for the good to be created out of it. He could just skip right to the rood with free will is. It doesn't matter if he if it doesn't matter. If god is all powerful it doesn't matter if we have free will or not he could make that whatever that good thing is whatever the good thing is he could make that happen without women being raped while he's in the room and i would love to know what i would love to know john hold on. I would love to know what good is going to come. What greater good is going to happen that required multiple women to be raped by ravi zacharias. So i i can't answer that i'm not god so if you were to ask me the question john what john what good is going to come out of joseph being thrown into a well and sold into slavery in egypt and thrown in prison for something he didn't even do. I can't answer what's going to happen. I'm not god so my answer in that moment would just be like i have no idea. Okay then we see the finish up the story and we can see in all we'd see tons of people's lives we can see in my life that my mom was mentally insane. I hate my life. I was kicked all these different schools. And i'm saying god why screaming at the sky so angry and so rebellious but now i recognize that my pain led to my purpose dot is what is the key and my point is led. My point is if god cannot deliver you to that purpose without a mentally insane mother or without women being raped. He's not worth worshiping because he doesn't take away free will doesn't take it no he. He's not he's not power he's not a powerful god. If wires free will he could. He could absolutely do what you're saying but he would also take man's free will and in doing so john it's not required. If he was all powerful he could find a way to make these things happen without the evil. Okay so if i don't have the ability to listen. I don't have the ability to jump over my studio. I literally cannot do it. But but i have free will right okay. So some things could be taken off the table. I could walk out of the building. I could be on the building. I can't fly over it so so there are limitations on alright. You don't have will find free. Well i've heard. I've heard christian come on this show. I i've heard of christian come on the show and do a pretty good job explaining to you that we don't have free will using bible verses by the way but i'll let them go listen to that my point where i debated. Yeah let it that one. My my point is andrew. If you're listening. I thought it was. It was adamant i lord. I'm so sorry adam. I'm sorry you said andrew earlier didn't you. Yeah knows. Adam did adam. I'm so sorry. I should know that it's the first name in the bible all right. So here's the question. I want to ask you so i answer. I answered your question to the best of my ability to not want you now. I want to ask you a question okay. So let's say that you have knowledge of everything in the future. So you're still a christian. Okay let's say you're a christian all right you have knowledge of the entire future. Okay you know that you know who's going to heaven you know who's going to hell okay. Okay okay so let's say now. A lot of my view comes from mullen perspectively. Let's say you are standing in the room of one of ravi. Zachariah says victims okay. You're just you're hiding in the closet. You know that if you stop that that more people will go to. How do you do it. Okay so i. I simply this wynonna anything about this reality anything. Even if it's one thing would you change even one thing about this reality. If you knew more people would go to hell because of it. I am because my eyes out hold on. I'm flat out rejecting the premise of your question. And here's why here's why here's here's why that question is complete bullshit. It's because what you're doing is you're giving me the knowledge that god allegedly has without the power that god's got allegedly has if you wanna make compare apples to apples and say i have all of the powers of god and i can. I can do anything. I'm unlimited power. You damn right. I stopped that. Because i could also stop those people from going to hell john. You can't handcuff god when it's convenient for you and then makes the all powerful when it when it helps your bible make sense salon. Let's let's let's say you're for a second okay. I'm fine with doing okay. So my view from molin ism is just very simply this okay. I lean more mullah mystic in terms of the reality that exists is the best possible world. This is the best possible that as long as we have as long as mitch. Mcconnell exists as long as mitch. Mcconnell exists. I don't believe we have the best possible world so again i again reject your premise. If i'm if i'm god and i can stop that and stop people from going to hell. Yes i stop it because there's no justification for a woman being raped in order for something good to happen. If i'm all powerful i can skip the rape e parts and get right to the good shit so in terms of is a finnish just nor what you said for a second term symbolism. It's the perspective of the best possible world scenario where the most amount of people with free will still being intact. Complete free will in terms of actions that can be classified as good actions and evil actions jumping over. A building is neither good nor evil. Right that that free will is pointless. Okay jumping off a bridge or being able to fly. That is neither good nor evil but there can definitely be evil in flying just like there can be good so moral actions that are defined by good and evil actions okay and that is where free will resides my friend within the best possible world knowing who with three will will choose good and who will choose evil knowing that the most amount of people under this best possible world the most amount of people will go to heaven and the least amount of people will go to help breath under the scenario. When you say knowing. You're implying that i can't change it. Are you taking the power from god that he has the ability to change it or does he know it but can also change the future so within within this perspective of molen azam God knows it but does not actualize it but can he change it Not without it being the best possible world. But he will but he can make a better possible world because he's unlimited in his powers to say anything less is to say god is not all-powerful. Thank god donald power. I'm simply asked than your analogy. Fail than your analogy fails to do what i'm gonna do to you. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna do exactly that next time. You asked me a question. i'm going to be like. I reject your premise John i've i've i've answered. I've answered every question you've ever asked me in eight episodes but when you try to back me into a corner where i i asked john let me finish. Let me finish. I can't hear when both of us talk. So it back into. And i see this so frequently with christians whenever whenever god Whatever they're praying. It's always about god being all powerful. It's about god. Granting something amazing god making a miracle happen anytime there's a. There's a a miracle in the bible in eighth theus go. This doesn't make logical sense. You go anything's possible. With god. i remember talking to my mom. One time about the impossibilities of a global flood from a scientific perspective and that god only save the land dwelling animals but if that much water really fell into the ocean the balance would be so thrown off that a lot of the ocean life would have died as well and she said god can make a whale live in a tree if he wanted to so. This idea that god has all of these. Endless powers is constantly used as arguments for christians to make all these things make sense that otherwise would never make sense right. That's always used but then when the problem of evil comes up and there's this issue of why didn't god do something then guys wanna handcuff him and say well free will. We're allowed to reject him. We're allowed to do. Were allowed to do bad things. In fact these bad things have to happen for some one off distant unknowable future. Great thing that's going to happen. That's beyond our knowledge. At least we really hope that's the case. Otherwise this is a bunch of bullshit so it has to be the case that you hope something great is gonna come out of multiple rapes in order for you to still worship god who washed rapes and did nothing about it. Mullin ism has nothing to do with this. It's a basic concept of decent humanity and you holding a ministry accountable but looking the other way when god does the same thing that a ministry did that. You would require accountability for you. Give god the ministry. The ministry is not the creator of the universe and that and that's the difference between us you being the creator of the universe does not give you a free pass to treat so entity like garbage with three will and no evil as so. Let's say you're god how you create a world which street free will but no evil. Do you believe there's free will in heaven to an extent. Yeah do you believe. There's you do you believe there's evil in heaven no there you go god's already created it so within that and i've i've talked about this before but it's in the same way we have free will now to go outside and eat dog poop. I i have the free will have the free. I could walk outside like a grab me. A big handful shoved in my face like chocolate right. I do not do it okay. I don't know of human beings that it if you do. You might need mental health. I have the free will to do it. That's the same. That's the same with heaven from my best possible understanding. of course. I'm not god so i could be wrong on this but for my best understanding mr same with heaven in saying bit there is free will in heaven but that sin itself is like the dog poop outside right now sitting in the yard. Could i choose to do it. Yes but it is so disgusting to me that i never would that exactly. That's exactly how earth could have been created rape could have been so disgusting no human with ever want to choose it. Free will and lack of evil could exist if you believe in heaven. I don't agree. You just agreed with me that a place exists right. now we're free will and the lack of evil exist so with with in heaven though again We also have the concept of free in a different plane. Okay no no no. It's not that whatever. Whatever got created there he could have created here. You just you just asked me without even possible which give me an example. How could you have a world. i just did heaven. He could have made that right here on earth done but he in heaven all evil people are gone. That's why they're in heaven. Well not necessarily you still have free will because you can choose against god because in your belief lucifer digest that right. He chose scott. So how you get. The heaven is you. Choose god here and so you'll choose him then. No i'm saying this could have been an exact replica. This could be heaven right here. You're born into it and rape is like eating dog poop. It is so disgusting. You never want to do it even though you technically could you. It never happens done same with same with childhood. Cancer are not there. That's the thing okay. There are people that are alive on this planet that could go out and eat dog poop. The they're the ones who go to hell. Okay okay. that's that's the difference. Okay the the good people are already in heaven. That's the differentiation there. The evil people are in held. The good people are in heaven if the evil people were in heaven then we then. I don't think heaven would be shocker. Without eaker what if he only created good people No they're evil is quite apparent in terms of good people in. Yeah but he could. He could have chosen not to make evil people because god created evil in the first place as a forty five seven. So i have no problem with god being the creator of evil. My perspective is pretty simple. The moment god creates anything outside of himself. Evil as possible that that's what he was not possible in heaven. No i'm saying from like creation narrative passage got his evil but evil is not possible in heaven right. Well i would say. Evil is possible in heaven if were consistent with scripture in terms of what state needed okay but but but but lucifer didn't go around and do anything bad in heaven. His only real problem was he chose to leave. Have there's nothing there's nothing worse then saying you wanna be god that that's like okay. That's fine but he didn't hurt anybody. Nobody else in heaven was hurt because of what lucifer did write her concept in terms of spiritual angelic beings. So it could be that here so you still. You still have loose free. Will you still have the ability to say i wanted. You could still. You can always leave you jump to your own little planet and be satan. You could leave but you can't. You can't rape no six year olds. Get cancer here. That's how it could be john. We don't have to watch a man abuse his power and rape young women. If i were god at the very least that would be one of the rules. Glad you're not gonna well. It's weird to me that you wanna live in a in a place where rape can run rampant as opposed to a world created by an atheist where that was off the table. It's mind blowing to me. No i don't. I'm not saying i don. I don't think that world is actualized. That and that's where we're gonna go in circles. It could be. Let's move into why this is really list is moving to why. This is your last debate Because i've got. I've got to save charlie. Can i say something. Did christians about ravi shoe and and the atheists Just close out the robby subject Do not defend him. There were christians right. Now i've seen posting. Oh we're all sinners Lana jones a lot of that. Yeah don't do that. Judge night less useful judged. I am talking specifically to the christians right now. If you're listening do not defend this. They're like mike winger. I i encourage christians. Go onto youtube and watch. Mike winger's latest episode that he did on rodney. He literally collected all of his books. He said here are his books. Here are the trash that is that is the understanding we need to have just way concept no way and they're also christians saying yeah. I have to push back on that because you said he hasn't said anything differently than any other christian apologists said so. Why was he lifted up as this great mind and apologetic before based on what he said and now that you know what he was doing behind closed doors. You're willing to throw all that away. yeah entirely. But he was speaking god's word they'll right. No no no no so here. Here's a big difference okay. could hitler say i love you too much to his wife. That doesn't mean. I would ever just because hitler could say something. Good doesn't mean. I would ever Advocate to read hitler's books or any books were left after he burned them all that. That's the thing once you do something evil. I don't we shouldn't care about your material. Just because you have propensity in order to say something good who you are and the character that you have is in conflict an ultimate contradiction with what you have written. And so i can't trust you. Sure in. yeah. No i agree. I was pushing back for the christians in the comments. The same reason that we don't you know the cosby show is no longer running right. It's the same same idea. Okay and this is the other thing i wanna say. Michael winger said this and loved it. It is so true. Don't you dare say there is no evidence for this. Don't you dare say. There is no evidence for this christians. Listen to me if you mike winger said this. I'm going to repeat him and giving giving him credit for this. If you dare say you were a christian and you believe in the evidence for the resurrection but you deny the evidence for this then you also need to deny the evidence for the resurrection because it's very very similar and not just similar is there's photographs. There's text messages. There's a whole digital age of evidence that we have in terms of this so do not say that there's no evidence for this or else also jumped also pleased denied the resurrection. Because you are just. You're being dumb. Okay to my christians. I love you guys. We can not support this. We cannot we cannot still uplift him. We cannot uses material. There is a very clear thing. Like i said i encourage. Go watch is episode. I want to be clear that i that that just denying the resurrection doesn't make someone just like all right. Let's move into The this being your last podcast. And then we'll go into the patriots section and we'll get into the cancel culture sort of issue you had with our atheist friend group because of tiktok posted which i'm gonna play. I have the audio of it And we're going to get into that in the patriot on version because it got really sticky but Yeah why you know you. You called me one day and just started telling me this is going to be your last show or actually. You didn't wanna do it anymore. And i said let's at least do one more about why you're not going to do another one. And it's why. I don't want to do podcast. Podcasts yeah yeah and so your reasoning kinda made sense to me But i'll you know. I'll just hand it over to you and let you explain what you mean and we'll go from there. Why do you not want to do these types of anymore so yeah ultimately. Because i'm just i'm sick of the intellectual chess match the intellectual gladiator match and the who has the better script It's not a search for truth. It's not even a conversation Surrounded by truth there are these elements that exist. Like i've definitely fallen into it tonight. Where i said one thing i want to just have a conversation. I definitely i already. You can see it. Listeners paid attention. You can see the switch where i started debating you david instead of conversation with you You can see the switch in the things. And that's why i call it intellectual chess match right. It's the recognition of. I'm already looking for your to moves ahead for me to give my response. And i don't like that. I don't like those types of conversations. And i don't like that there and the reason i call it that's why i call an intellectual chess matches because i'm thinking about my opponents next move and i'm trying to be to moves ahead so that i can have the better script and how be better arguments. I don't like this. i don't like it. i don't like it. i don't like it soon. The reason i call it an intellectual gladiator match because there's an audience that's calling out for blood of one of the fighters. They're not really looking for truth either. They're just they really. They want to cheer their fighter on like an may fight. So there are atheists better. Just cheering you on right now and they want you to pulverize me and there are christians that are cheering me on and they want me to pull barrage you and so i don't wanna be a part of that I don't wanna be a part of that environment. So i actually have convert meaningful conversations. One on one with someone. there's no audience. It's just me and that person really really trying to understand the perspective. And there's not these preconceived ideas of someone is listening to me talking and it's going to be out on the internet forever and I to word my way my work. I have to phrase my sentences in such a way to where. I'm making sure i'm not giving them ammunition against right. Why and i've done not just a few. I've done debates on tart. I've done debates with other atheists noon. I've been challenged to debates by tons tons of tons of different people and i've done them but ultimately it just becomes who has the better script and i don't like it i think doing wrong. I'm seriously no no. No that's your. If that's the way it feels to you. I think you're doing it wrong. i certainly understand that I guess it's a. It's sort of a mitigating fear of being judged later. Probably more so by your own christians right Because you and i can have this sort of debate back and forth and then When we finish you know not just you you. Christians are gonna win even even have hold on one side. I don't like it well again. I i think you're doing it wrong. I i think those those people that you say you're out for blood Are very few and far between. And i think they are going through a phase. I think that all of us through phase at one point or that's what they want is blood and typically for the atheist anyway. It's a recently deconverting atheists within a couple of years or so that wants to see religion destroyed and the pastor mocked and made fun of because they're very angry and we even refer to that as an angry atheist face then some maturity sort of comes in and we really enjoy thorough discussion I can't say that. I think two or three moves ahead. I may think a couple of questions ahead as i begin a line of questioning but well you have your script too much like you have had these conversations so many times right. Yes part of it. Is you know when. I present an argument or i present a perspective you already have a default response for that perspective san jose starting to develop those two. Yes sometimes but that doesn't mean that. I'm not open to exploring a new idea like for example when i said there are more muslims than christians in the world. And you said it's not even close. Are you crazy. I opened a tab on my computer. And i looked up and if it would have been there are one million muslims in the world and two point two billion christians. I would have immediately said. You're completely right. I was wrong. And i would have left that in the podcast so i don't consider this conversation a debate in fact that was one of the driving forces behind changing the name of this podcast from dogma debate to just the david c smalley podcast is. Because i didn't want it to be viewed that way. I didn't want it to be so contentious i wanted to be a fun. Lighthearted sometimes comedy laced discussion about skepticism. On certain objects on certain topics on certain crystals uncertain ouija boards. Let's let's dive in and say what's your belief. Can we make fun of it a little bit. Can you make fun of mine. And can we move forward with the discussion and find truth. So i think this this discussion is about truth. John it very much is now. I think the problem here is you. Don't hear from the people who were interested in truth for the most part you're getting you're either getting shit. From the torch tax. I talked to agnostics. Agnostics are the ones that i find to be the most looking for truth right christians. They want to confirm their bias. Atheists want to confirm their bias. Agnostics more so just wanna say certain. John the reason i have a problem with how you worded. That is is most atheists vast majority. And i'm talking ninety percent here of atheists who were having these conversations with you challenged their own bias years ago faced that music had that very uncomfortable feeling went face to face with their own biogas and broke out of that and became atheists. So for you to than say you just want to confirm your atheist. Bias is infuriating to people because they were strong enough to face it head on be honest about the questions. They had be honest about the doubts. They had and move forward even though they were extremely uncomfortable and likely lost relationships. Lost that community. You talked about earlier damaged relationships with moms and dads and brothers and sisters and bosses and we made that step because the truth was so important to us so for you to say the atheist so for you then you can say that atheist are interested in truth when they're listening to this or i'm not interested in truth if i'm having the conversation and all i'm doing is following a script and trying to confirm my own bias is completely missing the point of what we've actually been through so just because you had a bias in one thing doesn't mean you don't have a bias to what you currently believes we're human smell. Humans are very bias little fleshy things. Right let me ask you this. Let me ask you this if if so we just. The super bowl was not too long ago and the tampa bay buccaneers beat the chiefs. And if you were to say no. The the chiefs won the super bowl. Would it be fair to say that. We both have a bias. The my bias is that the buccaneers wound your biases at the chiefs. One i would say you're so that's an objective thing right. Basically based on based on what reality right. Yeah it's yeah. It's based on reality of actually happened right based on empiricism based on the facts of reality based on what we know not on what we can't know yet so in regards to God you're agnostic. Atheist right right you say that god could exist some version of god not the christian. I'm not saying. I'm not saying christian. Vert user you say that god could exist right. A god could exist okay. That's fine but so you're still you still have a coalition of Uncertainty in who won the super bowl at it the analogy is not it's not cohesive close and again i wasn't going apples to apples there. I was just trying to find out. You would still consider that a bias. So no because there's a clear winner and i don't think atheism is the clear winner at all. Well but atheism is a eight amendment eight as an eighth well because eighth is not a. Let me get this out because this is really important distinction here. It is the clear winner. If you're going by the same standards of empiricism positive ism what's proven to be true in reality what we can see touch. Smell hear the things that we know are right here in front of us especially if you were once in a believing family or in a believing organization and fought your way through crushed questions and challenged her own bias lost some relationships and came out on the other side in your search for truth to then be told by someone who still in the belief that you're not interested in truth is incredibly offensive. That's their problem I'm not trying to not trying to rude. But like when a when a christian of becomes a muslim or muslim becomes a christian right. They could say the same thing about that. Sure exactly you. So they're they're they're it's from one bias to the neth. It's just psychology tells. Us humans are biased. No matter what. But but john regardless of 'cause you also gain new information ri- sure but be that becomes and you're you're so from the perspective of like If you were just day one eight guest okay. I have come to a point where i no longer believe in god right and you asked me Some of your questions. Hey i read this in in the bible and whatnot and you were challenged by an apologist on day. One of being an atheist right. You might have had some questions answered from a more objective. You know john this. Is you speaking on a topic that you've never experienced and i don't mean to be rude but honestly you know nothing about the experience of coming from christianity into being an atheist Oh no i'm not. I'm not pretending that's just complete misunderstanding. That's just not a presupposition in an analogy. That already makes you. The winner is bias in and of itself will know i again. It wasn't an analogy. I was trying to find out if one person's thought was based on observable reality and the other person's thought was based on something in their head basically on a full extreme. So that's where we disagree. I believe still is observed reality that that's not where the whole yeah but nothing inside but nothing in. The scientific fields of study would agree with you that that the metaphysics can be tested or that god could exist. Or it's not even saving falsifiable scientific claim that god exists. in fact i could have you in thirty. I even have you. But i could even have you and thirty other christians in my studio and if you guys talked long enough you would disagree with every single one of them about at least one attribute of god in order to all agree and get into the same building you have to be very generic about what god is the more specific you get and more than about his political decisions and about his concepts of hell and his concepts on free will and why or why not he would stop rapes. At some point you guys would start disagreeing and do the same. No you can't thirty yesica and no. You can't get thirty in a room. No not about atheism to disagree about reality. Not about eight theism. That's where you're wrong. These are not two sides of the same coin. Atheism is a simple question is a simple answer to one single question. Do you believe there enough evidence to believe in do you. Do you think there's sufficient evidence to believe in a god the answers. Now that's it. It's either yes or no and if i don't know do you believe based on the knowledge you have. I'm lacking a belief an agnostic atheist. It's over we're not going to disagree about the properties of god that doesn't exist so why so when right so when christians tried to flip a coin and say you hey we both have beliefs. Hey we both have biopsies. Hey we we are not two sides of the same coin you may be the other side of a muslim coin jewish coin and could argue with them about tenets and rituals and beliefs and supernatural. Atheism is outside of all of that. It doesn't play those games so you think you think you're just completely free from what science says about psychology. No and i didn't say i was and i didn't say i was. I didn't say i was free of all bias. I never addressed that. Well i'm saying it's not the same you can't just when you throw it out and say well i have a bias and i'm arguing. You have a bias you're arguing. You've accepted a new bias instead of your these are not. These are not equal biopsies. When i was younger. Yes i think i had a biased a. I had a bias. Because of what. I was taught in indoctrinated with as a child it took me years to fight through that and then i came on the other side and found reality for what i could prove touch and know. And what. Science can falsify. And i can look back at my old system and god. I was really biased toward what my mom taught me as a child and i came out of that so to now look at me and go. Yeah you're bias toward what empiricism reality positive ism putting my hands on something. Something being scientifically sound that. I'm not ashamed of that being my bias. But it's not to say it's exactly the same as someone believing in an invisible floating being that that's not. We're not on to on to planes of x. We're on two different planes of existence at that point ultimately that that's where we disagree. I believe that the itself makes more sense coming from god. Then random unguided chaotic chance and an accident in calling it. Random chaotic chance in an accident is just presuppose no it's just presupposing that it didn't happen trillions and trillions and trillions of times and failed. I mean it's just it's just still accidental. It doesn't it doesn't matter how many times in happened or didn't happen. it's still accidental. We'll also over the amount you give a sentence to the universe in saying up. Didn't get right gotta try again. No it's not a sentient. It's just it's not about right. Romley saying it's right because i'm biased toward humanity being here. It's only right for me. That's what i'm right. There are still answers to questions. That i don't believe science will ever have sure okay is an In terms of the origin of these things. And that's that's where it comes down to. Why christians go to cosmology and good mccallum cosmological arguments or go to the argument from contingency or whatever argument you want to say right again descript de scripted things but to me even the scripted thing just because it's scripted doesn't mean it doesn't make sense well the position that information and intelligence in Consciousness comes from something with Intelligence and consciousness makes more sense to me than iraq fell into. This primordial soup. More john that just that that right there we just signed from jive makes no sense me john that what you just said that what you just said is a christian formed argument on christian websites that misunderstand what origin arguments actual teach now. Here's what the origin argument teaches. Foundationally life from non life period. I don the raw just as much dear. You believe in life from non-life no that's it that's naturalism says that all things come naturally so life comes from something not living. That makes no sense to me. Well hold on but the but the question is scientists deal with is. How did life begin. Let's let's look into it. Let's study let's see we look live could have come from another planet. We don't know what we say. Is i don't know the christian says i know exactly what happens and i talked to him every single night and he agrees with all of my political views. That's what i mean. When i say are not on the on the same plane of existence. We sure call it. I have a biased toward reality and being able to say. I don't know the john you keep talking right in the middle of my point. I have a bias toward. I have a bias argument. I can can you tell us well. I've gotten more argumentative in terms. Like if you take the first episode of us talking together. I was like really respectful and quiet. And let you talk and stuff now. I'm just very argumentative. I'm sorry. I think you so. So your idea of what this is. I think is a misunderstanding. Honest assessment of this. I think the reason you're getting out overwhelmed and upset is you're not happy with who you become during that conversations because you were trying to win but it well and i do not think it is possible to say when you enter into a debate with someone. You're not trying to win. Well i don't. I don't consider this a debate though but it is right. I mean it. It's a discussion to me. It's a discussion and debate. I it's a discussion that is also beneficial for the listen debate. It's a it's a discussion that is beneficial for other people listening. If if you're also if you if you're only goal is to change my mind and to not be ripped to shreds by christians in the comments then. I think you're doing it wrong because what this show has done for eleven years to this point. John has been inspire people to go have their congress. John you interrupted me again. And you talk over again. Let me finish. This show has done for eleven years as it inspired other people to go have conversations that are otherwise difficult conversations that they can have in a respectful manner with people they had not talked to previously. Or were afraid to broach the topic with so regardless of what side of the aisle. They're on or somewhere in the middle or who knows it's about inspiring conversations going all. I can take a little piece of what david said here. And i like john response to this but i think it fails on this piece. Let me go ask my christian friend. The question david asked and see if he gives the same answer. John does and it inspires dialogue and it requires respectful dialog at that. That's really what i wanna do. The show oh and i fully believe you but when you have a christian on or someone from a different religion or someone from Someone who's not an atheist right and if you're not talking about politics you meet the criteria for a debate. A debate is simply this by definition formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly in which opposing arguments are put forward. That's all a debate a debate. It doesn't just wrong. No of course. It's right because formal debates. Don't include things like this. This is not formal. Nothing about mrs. I played this as you were making fun of atheists in a stupid atheist voice with your imaginary hat on sideways. what formal. What world are you think we're in. It's still warble though. It's not no it's not. I'm about to stop this conversation to go to the bathroom and come back and talk to you about cancel culture in play a clip of you saying something that pissed off a lot of atheists. This is not a debate. John and it's why i changed the name the show i want people to have conversations on this show and if they make a statement like you did with ravi zacharias for example. I'm gonna push back but having a disagreement in the middle of a discussion does not automatically qualified as a debate. So let let me give an i. i swear tar. If you're listening. I love you guys. Okay i i really do. But i just for this conversation. I have to use this as an example. Have you seen debate recently on guitar. Channel david Sadly no have not had time. I recording moving to this new network recording episodes and saving them. So i've been doing way more episodes than i'm supposed to and then starting the network Joining the network delayed a little bit. So i have all these backup shows. And i've been slammed with that plus auditions and other stuff. So no i. i haven't But i would love to. I liked the channel. Yeah and and and i know you do the When they have a debate. I love what they do. Because it's so honest. Right in terms of vague they. They are so honest in terms of how they structure it right. So what they've been doing recently and i i love it they. They presented as like a boxing match. They literally have okay. The opening statements are called round one and then before round two. They'll have like this video play of a boxing match happening. And they'll talk about okay between a christian and ninety s. They'll say who do you think one round one. I don't like that at all i. Yeah i it's i wouldn't do. I think that is the most honest way to do it in terms of debate channel. And that's what they say. Okay then okay then separated. They are debate channel. They're not. It's not the same as my podcast being for open discussion. Yeah and like. I said in no way. Am i trying to put put them down. I love that. I think that is the most honest thing to do. And they have given the wins so to speak at the end of the debate. They've given them to christians and they've given him to atheists they say okay round threes up. Who do you. who do you think one. And they'll talk amongst themselves. Well even the atheist will say. I gotta give the the arguments that were presented in the way they presented The chris the christian take this. Okay right and i think that is a very honest way and doing it because no matter how much someone says they're not in it to win it whenever they do a debate whether it's formal or not right because all All debates are not formal like we can debate so john. Are you using me. Are you accusing me of being dishonest by wanting to have conversations on the show and secretly. I just want to win and destroy my opponent. No it's not what she said at all what it sounds like you're saying like at least they're being honest and calling it that when this is you of course want to win this. I've said repeatedly said repeatedly. I don't want to win. I want to inspire conversation and you're like well they're honest about it. Sounds like you're making that inference. So i just wanna give you an opportunity to address it. No i'm not. I'm not making that inference at all okay. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm not trying to make that inference ozone about my feelings. It's about understanding what my shows about. Yeah i'm not comparing their show in your show. They are things and they have different purposes. But even though your show is not It's not a debate but it is a show in which debate happens right. Okay fine we are. So i'm i'm i'm trying to figure out the why you don't want to engage in any more. I feel like your approach of making this into. I've got a win. Sort of shut you down from listening to someone right like i'm talking to you. Even right now in the middle of me still talking just immediately start chiming in with something like i feel like you just. You're you're just thinking about what you're going to say next. And how that's going to be viewed so you got to word it. The right way and that really shuts down communication. If that's the way you're approaching it. And i can understand that getting really frustrating for you. Yeah so i. I don't like what i become coming. So because like i said from the intellectual chess match analogy that i'm trying to think to moves ahead. I don't like that i do that. I don't like the the discussion if it was just that i don't like it. I don't like the gladiator match perspective of doing it for an audience. But we'll have a conversation with someone i like. I like our conversations on the podcast. But i like our conversations when we're just wanna one and we talk on the phone which we do. Do you know what i wanna say. I've noticed something when we're talking on the phone and we get into a little bit of a religious discussion. You actually stop. And think when i say something and consider and consider my words way more than when you record when we're on the show you just immediately bounced back with something and it's like there's no. There's no reflection no stopping reflect. Yes my tell us to stop and reflect if you remember right. And then you got molly forced couple. Remember on a couple episodes. Oh yeah you got mocked by that youtuber for stopping thinking and you were like. Oh yeah no more. No more thinking. I'm just going to blast you with other words. It doesn't matter if they make sense so that guy. I'm gonna blame him for you. Quitting this whole thing. I i mean i don't know yeah. Well he he. He never wanted to have a discussion with me. And you know who you are. And i know his listeners. Listen to this podcast. Because they have gone in the comment section. I don't care any okay. I i reached out to him so many times to have a discussion about this and he refused every time. And i'm gonna call you a coward for it okay. I'm done all right so so let's let's see what i told you whenever we got started. Remember that i had a hard stop Like eight minutes away from that. So i'm going to push back a little bit. I'm going to push that back a little bit. Let's end this. Let's move on and talk about the cancel culture video. You did where you said some very offensive albeit arrogant tone things on tiktok and got banned tiktok for it Well we have the video. I'm gonna play the video so the listeners will at least have audio of what you said And we'll get into the ideas. Why i don't know how long will be able to go but I would like people to join us For the rest of this conversation On patriots patriots dot com slash david c smalley and this video. Also got you into trouble with some of the tar is right. There was sort of this. You called it a hate train or hate chain. That was it then did it. Okay no no no so there are. The target guys are more my writer die. okay Like they they they know i. I have differing than them. But they still call me friend there there there. I'm not going to get too much into it. Because i'm going to have a phone conversation with them on this as well at that goes more out to that audience but they can also all on that conversation. Push them over here and they can listen to this as well. So it's not want to make that clear distinction like the tarte guys actually issued me of. How an apology directly. Which is unnecessary. Yeah but then when people hear what you actually said and then they hear that those guys apologize to you. They're going to be pissed at those guys. So there's going to be more context on the patron version of the show. Go sign up. If you're not already supporting patriots dot com slash david c smalley. If you're not coming over there with us to jump in the comments section please at least drive like you know each other.

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Ep. 230: A Difficult Conversation

MeatEater Podcast

1:55:19 hr | 1 year ago

Ep. 230: A Difficult Conversation

"We're out on the road. Film meter onyx hunt is one of the most important pieces of hunting year. We have used not only that I use it damned here every day and my personal life whether out trap. Beavers Hunt Mushrooms. Even just trying to find a spot to do a little preseason shooting, it combines detailed land ownership GPS functionality that works without cell service. Use your way out in the woods on next. has you covered cost less than a box of shells or a tank of gas used onyx hunt at? The scout new locations ensure you're on the right side of public land. Private Land Boundaries Save offline maps for use when cell service isn't available and more this time of year I'm often using next scout new spots for the upcoming hunting season in my home state and across the country. I also use the sharing feature to send maps to my body's and help get our film crew on the right spot. Go to on X. MAPS DOT com slash hunt. Now get yourself set up for the season. Used Code. Meat Eater. To receive twenty percent off your first premium or elite membership. That's www dot on x maps dot com slash hunt on x maps. com slash on. Everybody. Sound weird because we're coming into summertime, but you gotta think ahead to fall yet to start planning out your gear for what's coming up because you cannot be the kind of person, the sort of knucklehead who like scurries out scrambles to get his. His or her gear put together all of a sudden last minute, and it has a bunch of stuff that's not tested. It does fit right. Whatever like you gotta play I play the year long game and the yearlong gear game. I'm always doing stuff anyway, but. I got a big hunt coming up the September big float trip for Moose right? That's gear heavy trip. You WanNa. Have your stuff dialed I? Always keep my stuff dialed, and if you WANNA get dialed now. Start getting squared away for this fall. FIRSTLIGHT DOT COM and check out all the kinds of apparel. If you watch us, watch meter net flicks. That's the stuff we run around and first light gear I have been using it for many years. They were one of the very first companies to have our back when we started out meter. They supported, our mission supported our message from day one now we're all one big family. Go to first light. Start stocking up some things you gotTA. Check out there. I'm always talking about the competitive coffees. They're phenomenal right now. The hottest thing there you gotta check out Zip off Long Johns, so you can get the kiln. You can get boot top, which is like a long John that doesn't go all the way down to your ankle. It comes to the top of your boot or are you still get full length long johns when I zip off their Marino. Some Merino wool they don't start stink. And when you got your Bhutan and you got your pants on, and you've got your Lj's on and you start getting hot. All you do, you don't take you. Don't touch you boots. Take your boots off. You drop. Down your angles real quick. And then just. One zipper down the right side zipper down the left side and your long johns come right off later at night starts getting cold. Touch your boots. You don't take your boots off. You don't take your pants off. You drop them down your ankles Zits. Same noises and you got your long Johns back on first light DOT COM. You have to get some. Pause first light. They care a bunch about conservation there in there all the time doing great work when you check out, you'll have the option to donate a buck or two to a variety great conservation groups. Hell going there and give some money to the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership Rum board member. It's a nonprofit supporting hunters and anglers on conservation issues, first light dot com, the best company out there making hunting apparel great people. They put their money where their mouth is on conservation. Go support. Thank you. This is the media podcast culminating? You shirtless severely vote bitten in my case underwear listening. PODCAST. You can't predict anything. Presented by on ex-husband creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters download the hunt APP from the I tunes or Google. Play store, nor you stand with Onyx. Okay Room, map. You're finally here now at long last sighting. WE'RE GONNA get we're. GonNa. Get to you big time, but we often talk about just some juvenile stuff. Before get rolling, get to it, but just in any comments. You got all right. Need to catch him of the Onyx, things I haven't talked with antibodies for real. We haven't talked about Out Film and DASS boat. Season Two dose boat. That's right. I wanted to call it dose boat. I didn't come up with that that someone shut you down well. Josh Pristine came up with that because he's super good at name and stuff. He's good at making long sentences, but he's very good at at very short things so. I thought it was great. That season to daas boat would become dose boat, but I've been educated on the fact that you can't just name a show something new because people don't find it right, so I'm thinking. Daas Boat Season Two dose boat. You were out filming. Season dose maybe. No to keep it shorter. No, no, you don't like that How did it go I? Mean were you excited about it? I was very excited. Yeah, I maintained my excitement, too. But we we had some tough fishing. We had fun building I never. To the boat, we did not have toughest. Yeah, and as I left. I told the crew. You will now have tough fish. Not because you because what you're going to do? Yeah I don't know I. Don't know why you cast that. Cloud of pets is pessimism. Now and then in think we're going to do that own cash that hatch. In the dark yeah. What we would do is. Get swarmed by unbelievable amounts of biting insects. An here fish now and then, and you spend a lot of time trying in the DART to get your back cast untangled from the IRS. Is See. I've got more skills than that so I didn't have that problem. What they're trying to do is there is a bug called the heck's Gina and it's a giant may fight. Stand huge sons of bitches, almost two inches on top of the water. mean it literally looks like a little sailboat going down the water and they're very attracted to your garage door. The white. Light. On your garage, you'll wake up one summer day and all of a sudden. They're all over your yard light and somehow stuck to your garage door I remember that from being a youngster there when the Hash on certain years when it it can be very very thick and it will. Congregate under the lights and ours told actually that they'll. They'll end up on the sidewalk underneath the lights because they think that's the surface of the water. There was a reflection there. Oh, but they were saying or. Some of those northern Michigan towns. Over again. Yes so the light is reflecting on the sidewalk, right? That's where it's hitting, and so even though the light might sort of attract them. That they're seeing that sort shining surface that's under the light in the darkness. All around whether you like my garage door, yeah! Even though they must've thought the water. Was Vertical. Gone. Too many tiny little. Continue they can be so thick that they'll bring out the snowplows to skewed off the bugs off sidewalks God yeah. Is it stink, too? I'm guessing has got to be some sort of. It wasn't that thick when I was, there didn't get to experience that I was happy. Stories of cars crashing, yeah! From the slickness. that. Room and I grew up there there twenty years I. Never saw any of this shit. That's loud. Never saw any of these things happen. I grew up telling people that they happen. You're doing other things after ten PM. See that's the thing it only comes off like like thirty minutes after dark and Northern Michigan at the end of June. I mean literally you're out there at ten thirty and you're like God I can still see you know twilight in the sky, and once it got completely dark this it's like eleven, and then finally your shining the light on the water and there you go, you can really. Starting to float down the river twelve, and in the right conditions, it brings up a lot of the fashion, a lot of the big fish, and some of these rivers. These fish can intake like I forget what it is like forty fifty percent of their annual. Dietary intake annual calories in like a week or two when they get to feed on these giant bugs right so very important food source and unfortunately me. We got hammered with like. Thirty six hours of rain and the temperature went from like high of ninety to a high of like fifty five. And it just made the trout soak. They just went to the bottom and went Mer. Put a pouty face on and didn't want to do anything, so we were China everything. I mean we were throwing. You know spinners in Repola's and the only thing I didn't throw was a as a night crawler. I probably should have but the last day we. Changed, gears and went out to a lake. Where where is known to be some good small mouth fishing. We call them small mouth. On your flight whole. No No, no, I was going full Matt Elliott and we're just trying to catch fish, yeah. The boat, so the boat for the boat for dose boat is about that I knew all through growing up. Yeah, my one of my fishing mentors down the lake for me. guy named John Gary. Had! He. He bought this boat the year before I was born. He bought a nineteen seventy-three, and it still has all the registration stickers on. Going back to seventy, no, because like. You buy them and blocks a year as the first one accounts for seventy three, and then paces all down the side of the boat, and it's it's like in four your increments, or however they do the registration. Stickers are still all on there. When he died, we got his boat. And it sat and my mom's poll or outside. My Mom's Pole Barn for twenty years. Then we refurbished the boat and that's our new fish. It's very seaworthy vessel with that transom. Read on and the new engine on. It was I was glad we had to take the engine off because we were floating down a river. which is like you know, part of the fun of this show is that you're going to take a boat? It's not meant to float down the river. Take engine off of it and then. Because of the way the boats shaved and the way you row about down river, you go down backwards. You're still looking forwards, but the boat itself is oriented. Where pictures the current, you WanNa have the ability to not go the speed of the current right. Yeah, so the current slipping under the curvature of the bowel right. It was tricky to row. It's such a narrow beam on that Bo that made the or seem very heavy because he had much more shaft of the or outside of the or lockers inside. We got it done. We figured it out. It was fun. Just hoping the whole time I was thinking like is John Area Looking down from the heavens. Thinking like this is cool that you guys. Okay. He wasn't a centric dude. John Gary. He didn't understand why shirts collars. And he would cut the collars office collared shirts. Instead of t shirt he had all the shirts removed the collar because I don't know why it's there. I don't either and so he would just cut it off and one time I was added protection he m. He was old, and I was at his house and he told me he needed. He wanted to just have a little bit easier time with money. And he said I will sell you this house and everything in it. He said right down to my shoes for seventy five thousand dollars. The the catch being I live here till I die. And! That would have been a very. Very, smart financial move for me to have made, but I just dismissed it an inlay. Realize what a miss that was how? Ya Outta made a lot of money. Yeah, you probably can't buy garage on that Lake for seventy five thousand dollars more became residential happened to the place. Oh. Doctor bought. and fix it all up and changed tore down. His fish tore down fish shed. Let his boat launch. Go to ship What's funny? Is this guy? My brother's a doctor. But. In one day meet him or walking down the beach in my brother has nothing but a pair of cutoff denim shorts. And just looks like you know something. The cat dragged in and so we get to this guy's plays. An eccentric dude he's. He doesn't play by the rules. Whatever the rules are, he doesn't. He doesn't even know what they are but We? Get there and re meet the sky. It's like Oh. This has got about John Kerry's house and Tom John Uh grown up in and around the house and the guy introduce himself as whatever like Dr Young you know. My brother goes well. I'm Dr Annella. Talk Is. What's? Funny. A true. We'll talk more about dose later I don't WanNa waste your time I. Know I'm here I. How did you have the name? Are you eat well? It's actually short for roulette. Russian roulette APP like literally on your mom. Dad. Totally and there's no story I wish there was a story. Yes, Roulette royal the game. was. Sick Roulette, Lake in. Russian roulette. There's also the game. Roulette both games were just a financial version of Russia. Both Games of chance. But I wish it was a story, but there wasn't a story always asked my mom like so. Why did you because you know when your kid? No one you know, people say oh, that's such a pretty name, but as I got older people were like so did your parents gamble ally today? I mean these business meetings and like. My name became the punchline. Well because I don't always want to be a punchline. A crazy. Get sick of. A great story I would go for it because there's no story I just feel like wom like people were kind of let down, you know. They anticipate that I'm GonNa talk about some Wild Vegas. Conception. Night win you in a game of Roulette. Do you twenty three me to find out down might be like. Well there is definitely some narrative there but. But Yeah I just you know. Ru came together for me around like my mid twenties, and just just feel really solid like being like a two syllable name Rue, map. So. Great now have you ever met another Rua Roulette map? There s even weirder. On because real is like French first street, and then lastly map to peace so I'll have grown into the street Matt navigational name, so it works goes good branding a lot of symbolism. They're definitely. I WANNA. Ask You one more question for my main questions before I set the table. Your Dad was a cowboy. Yeah, he considered himself cowboy for sure I'm definitely the first generation Californian. My Dad came from Texas. his dad was a cattle rancher. And you know it's something. I totally took for granted and didn't really come to understand that there were so many people like my dad who came from the south, but the thing that was really unique about my dad is that he brought along in a really active way love for the outdoors, and so even though you know, my parents came to Oakland, and as many African, Americans did between. The. World War Two through the early seventies he in. He had a place in Oakland, but he wanted to have a place where he could pursue his outdoor passions, so we had this ranch with about fifteen acres when I was little, and we had cows, pigs and. That was you know his his his place where he got his life together, but I read somewhere. You being embarrassed. At a dead, he had dead pigs hanging. Yes, because we'd bring that stuff back to Oakland, you know and like. The garage would be open and there'd be you know animals hanging and Asian. In the garage and the bus would pass by and I'd be mortified. But, but yeah, I mean it was really I. It's one of the things you just don't realize how special it was to have that really unique background Even you know for me and Oakland to be able to have those connection points, both you know in an urban setting, but also you know to be able to be in a wild place and in a family. Family that truly valued hunting and fishing and harvesting all kinds of things, and it's been a big wonderful journey through my work to help bring those things back to more people and the recreate those opportunities for more people. You know so that we can you know just help? People get their lives together and help people get more connected to what's really real about nature. You know what ones up. Making. This! Said like to set the scene. There's there's a part about this conversation that makes me uncomfortable. Because we're GONNA talk about like we're going to talk about race. Okay, and we talking about Afro outdoors and so door after alter I'm sorry. I'll. People do that all time to. Of. A. Abra calls main eater all the time. A! GROWING UP K. I grew up in in a very like strictly white setting for the most part. And the thing that you were taught to strive for was like total color blindness. That was sort of the Northstar. And it would be that you would never set would be like did it would just be the thing you would never ever do the? You would sit with someone and say Your black. How how does how do you feel about this? That would be like Shit. You never do that even even though to be honest with you. The only thing in your head is like. Super Aware Yeah. You're thinking. Talking to I'm talking to a bike woman. I don't WanNA, mess up. What she might have a totally different world view, but don't ask. Don't ask because we're all colorblind. Right and I'm still a little bit stuck in that. Yeah, well, you're going to have to get over it in this conversation because I want you to. See me. It's not complicated like it's okay to have different. It's okay it'd be like. I'm talking to a white dude. No I'm talking to somebody who loves the outdoors and I wanted to connect on that. How do we get there? How do we get there to talk about? How do we get their words? Let Me Cutty nursing chair. We're starting to whip files yesterday. WHO believes been on the phone with the presidency of TR CPI? Yeah and I'll tell them like. I was giving them like what I recognize is a problem because we were trying to you on a long time ago, but we got derailed by covert. And I was like. I hope I. Mean You knew you were scheduled but I'm like I. Hope I feel now that it's become like a thing where it's like a forced conversation. When would have before Ben like more natural, but now everybody's hackles are up I now, and now you're. By talking about something you get crucified, crucified did not talk. Some people are gonNA. Be pissed that you're not talking about race. You're going to be pissed about race. Oh, now you're interested in S. and. We're just glad she's coming on, but. Really I mean I think it's important that people know our or origin story here like I, actually reached out to your team last fall and I reached out because I'd senior show and actually I had heard about your podcast well before that I was with some colleagues who I work with on the Board for the Wilderness Society and you know we're just sitting at you. Know this. And we're talking about you know podcasts that we all listened to. Inevitably we get to that conversation. Like what are you listening to? Because it's a way of getting to know people go and someone told me that I should listen to meat eater and it was with this disclaimer. Right, but it was like with this disclaimer. It's like yeah, but it's really cool. It's not like just about you know. Just zero type of people who you know, Hunt and fish and I'm like well. Look I'm already with it. You know so I'm I'm definitely just interested just because I'm interested in that topic, and but with my background so I listened to your show, and then I saw that you had a show on Netflix course and I watched that, and and I realize we had so much common language and so much common language that was really about. Helping people understand their possibilities of being in the world and understanding wildlife, more and living in harmony with it, but as a way to to connect with other people across difference, and that resonated so deeply with me, that I thought about writing you for a couple of weeks until I actually did and I just I sent one of those you know emails. Via your contact us. Link on your I. Mean You know? Yeah Yeah you. Send it off into the night. You know you have no idea who's GonNa read it. If someone will read, it gets it. Lands in their emits a lot of emails, photos of mangled fingers. Yeah, all kinds of. Because I'm the recipient of of those kinds of emails like people write us for all kinds of reasons to partner with us to. Pour their souls out to us to talk about race. All kinds of attack you. Know. We've been very fortunate. That may change after this call. Interview. But I think that for some reason and I have I have some suspicions about what that reason is is because outdoor Afro is so forward in its love story in. It's love story about community, and it's love story about nature, and that's what I really got from your work, and that connected deeply with I felt the values that we have without Raffarin that which I grew up with so I reached out in a real human responded and said Hey. Hey I'd love to talk to you on the phone and hear more about what you're thinking. And I didn't have a goal. I just wanted. I just wanted to connect and I wanted you to see like hey, I see you and and we'll see where the ripples go, and that that began last fall, and then we had our plans to do a Turkey. Hunt together is right. I forgot about that. Yeah, WE'RE GONNA. Go Turkey on IT, yeah! That we should, and so we already had that plan for April. And then the whole shelter in place happened, and then I got you know everybody you know couldn't do anything during that time and so this was really our first opportunity. And we may hate to interrupt I'm going to, but it's actually going to work out in your favor because we're always planning to take you. I didn't quite know the zone very well, and it took me quite a while to figure it out now. We did end up killing a Turkey in the general area later. Okay, if you come back next year, I've got a dial. Okay, okay, I'll be ready. So I think it's important that people know that this was one initiated by me. To this. Had you know a timeframe that that began in advance of all of the? Kinda shit show. We're living through right now. yet I'm grateful, and that's how I felt as soon as pandemic hit. As soon as the whole sweep of black lives matter really kind of landed upon us as a country I just felt so grateful to be doing work that feels in a lot of ways more urgent than ever before when the shelter in place happened and I saw. Saw people getting outside and getting into parks. I mean I saw kids on bicycles and on rollerblades and I saw families out in nature. I saw our parks be overwhelmed, but because I think that people had this this primal bonus that they needed to connect with nature for their healing in that moment, while you wouldn't be able to go to a restaurant or a movie theater, people knew. They knew they had nature, and so we began just making sure that folks knew that we were there for them. We were there for families, and we were also there to help. People recognize that nature is not necessarily in a place where you go and drive to, but it's all around you. It's your windowsill like I was just like. You know in the beginning of the shelter in place I looked outside, and I saw my lazy pit bull laying on the grass like she always does. I saw you know the blue scrubs Jay, coming through like it always does and I just again grounded myself to take my cue for how to be at this time in. That's like nature. And that's that's where I keep going back to in this time and I think right now. I think about outdoor Afro, and just my whole. Reason for being with outdoor Afro is really about how I can help through this work. More people come and ground and I. Think People are looking for that right now. Explain the explain the mission of outdoor Afro, but then also tell me what you're going to tell me about when I said. that. The North Star of total color blindness convinced me that that's not north star anymore. Well outdoor Afro is very different questions. Yeah, yeah, and I. Got I got you okay? I'm tracking. So outdoor Afro celebrates. And inspires black people to reconnect to the outdoors and reconnect is a really intentional word that I use because as I kind of move through the journey of developing outdoor Afro you know that was born in social media. I had a personal blog and I started talking about growing up wild, and all the things that I used to do in the outdoors, and what happened was that there were folks who responded back to me and this is back in the first wave of social media, so the algorithms are all nice and flat. You didn't have to pay to play and you could literally I did from my kitchen table. Have this very intimate conversation about all the things that I loved? Loved about being in the outdoors, and about my family traditions in the outdoors and people responded back, and there like you're telling my story. This is my life to men. That's when I realized that we had a visual representation problem that we didn't see people who look like me or like. My Dad like my dad loved nature. He's loved wildlife. He'd never would have called himself a conservationist environmentalist ever because that was just not where he took his cues from, he took his cues from his dad, who got it from his dad, and so on and so forth, and so it's really been for outdoor Afro our effort to really help restore that sense of outdoor leadership and knowledge back to the home. I really want people to have their nature swagger, but you go out, and you know how to be how to live what to harvest what to set aside what to leave behind for poison. You know like what like how to really understand nature and not think about nature someplace that you have to drive to and access through a parking lot and just be comfortable and. And be comfortable and respectful. You know at the end of the day, so I had a lot of experiences through outdoor Afro and connecting with people from all over all all walks of life from children to elders, and eventually people wanted to find communities of folks to get outside with, so we started what we call the outdoor. Afro Leadership Team and for me this. This was really disruptive because I didn't go for the wildlife biologist or you know the Eagle Scout, the the people who we traditionally think of as the experts in the outdoors I went instead for the real estate broker, or the the preschool teacher, or the accountant, the attorney and then we even had military vets. WHO said Hey I love nature and I wanNA. WanNa share what I love about nature where I live with others in my community and Si- brought those folks together, and we trained, and and really learn from one another about risk management of course and trip, planning and logistics, but also things like you know how to tell our story in a different way how to use you know in harness, social media and other. Mediums where we weren't present right now where we could move the needle on lifting up this other vision of how people who look like me could be out in nature, strong, beautiful, and free and It's really been phenomenal how that's grown now we have you know that started off as a group of about eleven people who said Yes to being out draft leader in every year. You know we've grown incrementally just taking the time to really learn about what we're doing and why we're doing it and not getting bigger just to be bigger, you know like vanity metrics mean nothing to me, you know 'cause I see a lot of people being. Being big and being wrong, you know or being unwieldy, and so we just grew incrementally our team and this class that we have this year's about ninety men and women from thirty states, and we have a participation network about forty thousand people, and they get out with us, and they hike, and they bike in the camp, and they bird, and do all kinds of things, and one of the things I want to continue to move the needle on is as people get more comfortable being in the outdoors you know. How can we talk more about sustainable hunting and fishing and helping people really round out their experiences in the outdoors and I'm. relearning a lot of those skills right alongside them as my parents have have passed away you know several years now you know you really need a community of people around you to pursue some of these activities that you know as you described, take a long time and take a lot of hands and a lot of equipment and and so the the on ramp is pretty steep when you start talking about some sportsman's activities, so I'm looking forward to building more community, deliberate community around that as well. The mentors are hard to come by they are. You can build like a you know and that's what I'm. Right I'm hoping we'll do like really create. I've been calling it the B side of outdoor. Afro Outdoor after dark or maybe before sun up where we're, you know deliberately building community and I've had some great conversations with California, fish and wildlife. To come up with ways that we actually start folks, you know at the phase of getting there you know hunter certifications, and then moving them through the fall early winter to duck hunt you know, and a big feast at the end, and really bring people through the continuum of good education, good conservation, ethic harvesting seasonably, but also like getting there. At the end, so, what does the water participation rates? Like I know that we have ninety percent for for fishing a lot better hunting is ninety ten male female. Three percent. African American. You know it depends on. What do you know the rates? And also I mean you know you Kinda. Get to this question that I get asked a lot like it's the. Why don't you know black people do Blah Blah Blah and I? Think it really has to do with who you're hanging around with What you're you're. Your geographic area is because you definitely see for instance in the south. You know proportions. I really look at not like be. Finite amounts in this big pie of how many people are doing an activity? I always measure like in proportion to people's population and their opportunity right so if you have like a big population in an area of black people then you're gonNA probably have higher rates of participation in all kinds of things, all kinds of outdoor activities especially if those. Access points are near where people live and I liked. UNPACK those statistics a little bit. We'll shoot me with the well. There's zero zero point. One percent of black people go to Yosemite. I'm like well well well, well, wait. Is that like all of nature, or is that like one park that is about four hours from where people live, and I think about you know just the lives of busy working families you know on the weekends you may or may not have time off to go and drive someplace where you've never been to do things you've never done before with people you've never met I. Mean that's there's so many big asks in that, and so that's why I whenever people choose to come out with US I. Always Start by thanking them, you know. Thank you for saying Yes to first of all getting up from your warm bed on. A Sunday morning maybe before the sun comes up. Thanks for saying Yes to that. Thanks for getting in your car and finding this place because we know navigation is a huge challenge for people especially when you get out into remote areas, and then you know for trying something never done before around people who you don't know because. I've been there, I've been in the embarrassed one. Where everyone's got the skill and and I don't or you know the physical abilities and I i. don't you know and so we spend a lot of time helping people to get prepared and to feel confident, and then once they're they're. They're supported. You know they don't have to feel like they're the only one in the group. You know who has to know things and we don't. Have a competitive atmosphere. You know where you got to. You know, have the biggest. Go the fastest bag the tallest. In order to feel successful and so when it comes to being seen now, I think it's really important that we really see each other and I think that when we really take the time to see each other, I think it opens the door for greater understanding and empathy, and reveals the core of the love story of what outdoor Afros really about I want you to see that I stand on the shoulders of you know black people who you know made away out of no way quite frankly who learned how to live off the land sometimes under duress, but sometimes of their own choosing and they did it in A. A really powerful and beautiful way, and that there's so much. That's when I think about America and I think about you know the ways that there's just these intertwined histories I think it's important to recognize that we have all been in this thing together for a long time, and even if we didn't live in a neighborhood you know, were you were necessarily integrated. I think the effect on the overall culture the foods we eat. The music we listen to is undeniably intersectional in the way that we've been in relationship in a in a deliberate way for forever and so I. Think it's something to be celebrated. Victory avoided. And I think that we can We can look at difference and not look at difference from Ohio Arkell. Point, view and I think that that's where you know. We ended up in these slippery slope that if you notice it then. Then somehow you're positioning. And some people do. Let's be real, but I think that through some people do what I think. Senator Hierarchy Yeah, I think the some people do, and I think that you know is something that that we all manage, but again I go back to this work as an opportunity to really free ourselves of those `Isms and those judgments can somehow cloud our our way of getting to know one another. You know one of the things that I say and I'm saying it more and more frequently, and you know when I go out into nature. You know the trees don't know that I am black. You know the birds are gonNA. Sing no matter how much money is in my bank account. And! The flowers are gonNA Bloom. No matter what my gender is or my political party. And so I feel like nature really gives us this broad platform to be, but also to understand one another like when I was I was in the Arctic refuge with some friends and We had just landed just beyond. The Brooks range on the Shilla River. We're. GonNa. We're GONNA. Paddle down to the ocean, and just when we landed, we had seen like this whole like biblical heard of Porcupine Caribou. We were just mesmerized. I'd never seen that many. You know Caribou any Caribou but that many. Many hearts beating altogether. Yeah I am you can't like. You can't be the same after seeing that so after that had happened. We're just kinda standing there stunned and. You know really mesmerized by just being in that landscape and having that experience. A bear POPs up and camp. And you know. Either I honestly it was it was it was terrifying. It was shocking and there were some people who you know do what humans like to do, sometimes with charismatic mega-fauna, and that's reason think go away, bear, you don't WanNa. Be Here, bear clap clap clap. Young the bear spray got deployed, and all that and I'm like standing behind a raft. You know as if that was gonNA make a difference, and my knees are all shaken, and you know, and just literally no more than a minute, or so, because the the just looked at curiously, it was not aggressive at all. And it just took a whiff of that. You know that Arctic air and just disappeared in the landscape. And That was a moment where i. Had A hard reset of my humanity I realized that I was in. That bears wild and I. think that there's this perception as humans that we are in in. We are at cause in the wild and it just reordered things for me in the right way that I was not at the top of the food chain first off. And had that bear decided to enjoy any of us for takeout that that wild would continue to lumber on without any regard for its human passengers, and that you know that was just another of many lessons that I've learned in this work that while I'm leading people and helping people to get outside. I'm also sharing my revelations and my experiences to really help deepen. Understanding about what it means to be in relationship with the wild, and how you know that bear, you know, we may not be you know at at 'cause in that moment, but we have a responsibility to help protect you know where that bear lives, and to be with that bear in a way that's responsible for it to be able to stick around. Did. You know that refinancing your credit card balances can lower your interest rate and save you money, and you don't have to be a financial expert to. Get a fixed rate credit card consolidation loan from light stream, and you could save thousands in interest rates start at five point nine five percent APR with auto pay an excellent credit lower than the average credit card interest rate of over nineteen percents, APR get a loan from five thousand dollars to a hundred thousand dollars, and there are absolutely no fees. The application is one hundred percent online. Online and you can even get your money in your bank account as soon as the day you apply. 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And how can different activities like? How can there be sort of racial bias toward different activities? Yeah, that's a great. Have you read them? Jeff read read the unbearable lightness of being by Kunar of Milan Kundera. Longtime ago has lots is kind of this condemnation of communism, but in the unbearable lightness of being a guy and his girlfriend, and the writer gets into WANNA prayed goes by like she grew up in. Communist Czechoslovakia I think Kim grow communist Czechoslovakia. When she sees a parade. Means something very different very different. When the other person sees a pre, that's right right when the celebration and another one is, a holy shit was amazing to sort of American fourth of July S. And imagine like. Oh, Shit, yeah, here's the commies. Take off their military. The word parade takes of the different and I read the singing in this. I think as you I can't remember it. was you or someone else talk, but some abroad up. Swimming Yep. And pools like the historically to be pools. It would just flat out. Say like no black people could swim in this pool. Absolutely absolutely so here and now we have an you linked to yeah. Drowning rates today, and this is an interesting way people to begin to see a little bit of what we're talking about. Yeah, I mean it's. It's no like. No fantasy. You know that there was a time in a not too distant past. When there were pools and beaches and public areas, you know and. The public property now public property public beaches, I think there was a bloody summer in Chicago where there were you know people getting beaten for for China access the shoreline there have been beaches everywhere where there has been restricted or excluded You know parts where black people could not be. There have been public pools. Where black people were not allowed? And so the consequence of that. Is that today we have a drowning rate of black children who are drowning five times, the rate of black or white peers ages five through nineteen. So you know? The Public Health consequence that your grandmother or your mother wasn't able to learn how to swim and. Develop a relationship with water is still felt today. And so. In response to that one of the things that outdoor Afro set out to do last year was to award swimmer ships, and so we set out to get as many babies in the water as we could and. I wanted to you know. Get about seventy swimmers ships out. I call them swimmer ships. Basically they're swim scholarships for for lessons. and. We were able to with the support of a lot of folks. Get nearly two hundred of those swimmer ships together and the reason. Why is because if a child doesn't know how to swim? They're not gonNA ease into a TIPI Kayak. They're not GONNA put a poll in a Lazy Lake. and. They're not gonNA give a damn about plastic in the ocean. So it's not just about people's lives being saved. It's about that being such a like cornerstone skill that until we can get people comfortable with water. They're just not gonNA be able to pursue a wide variety of outdoor recreation. Activities less fishing and I just remember I was about ten years ago before outdoor Afro really was a thing, and I had gone out with a bunch of friends, and we had rented a Catamaran in the Caribbean Ocean and. And I thought I was really come. I'd I'd swim all my life and our host had swam as well, but most of the people who were on that Cameron. I don't think they really understood what they're getting into. And when the water became really choppy, even though people had their pf on, people were terrified in that moment. And they couldn't enjoy it, you know some people got sick I mean it was it was a disaster, but had those people had comfort and a feeling of of even you know just steadiness around water. It would have been a totally different experience, and so that's one of the reasons why outdoor Afro exists is because we are responding to some of historical barriers. Barriers that were real while also celebrating the fact that people did persist in learning how to swim learning how to be in nature, folks like my dad, for instance, and so were you know trying to remedy some of the past while also lifting up some of the figures in our history? who were every bit? The wilderness leaders I think often times about. Harriet, Tubman you know we don't think about her as a wilderness leader. But how did she get? People moving across state lines in the cover of night. And not know nature. Not No. Not Not no. The sound of you know the birds. That may Cher warning you know or where to. Stop and and and eat, or what can you harvest from the landscape? Like how? How could she done that? Without Nature Knowledge for for me, she you know embodies away that we can look at people in our history in a different way. You know rebrand if you will, but really you know look at history of African in Black Americans. in an empowered way, you know versus ones that. Only needs saving. A interesting when you look at American history. Is The rapid. Like, the rapid read recent urban ization Asian of blacks. That, if you go back a couple of hundred years. I mean outside of their own choosing, but because they were. Your ancestors owned by people and we're told what to do and where? Like intrinsically tied to nature. Without even like an option to not be tied to nature both like working in agriculture. Living in L. situations with no running water. Even like share cropping and things where you're working the soil and you're sort of what you eat is directly dependent on what you do with your own hands. And then the and then in the reconstruction era, like after the end of the civil war the that. The. These people who were like really connected to the season's and natural systems for Nido to find work into escape, persecution went and cities to get manufacturing jobs right, and it's funny. How should a funny just interesting? How in a couple generations are like even our associations? WOULD BE they. Like cities. Right as that was like a natural order of things, and we lose sight of sort of like the factors that led the demographics social logical factors that led people to be where they are in a way that in a very short period of time we look, and there's assumption like that's how you like it. Right and it's wrong. And that's in its in its disruption. Absolutely because you know I, I read Isabel where Wilkerson book, though warmth of other suns, and it talks about in painful detail. How people? Had Basically. Black people refugees in this country and jumped on on trains, and and didn't get off until the train ran out in places like Chicago and new. York and Oakland in Los Angeles and created, and my my folks were a part of that that wave of that great migration, and it was really I mean when I think a lot about their beginnings like they. They did. What's called hot. Bedding Where they work in the shipyards as a family you know uncles, and and you know kin all shift doing shift work. Yeah, doing shift work, and also sleeping in shifts in the same beds. Like so you know. The bed always stayed hot. and just think about like the grit and the tenacity of people to you know, leave what what they loved. You know to create something new, and and even those new places not being you know welcome place for them to be necessarily, but you're right in that you know we are not. We speaking. We are not more than a couple of generations away from that knowledge that connection that knowing this with nature and I feel like that's a huge job that outdoor Afro you know is responsible for, and that is it's not talking about the absence of the presence of and how it's always been there. How if you look at you? Know like all of the ways that black people have been in this country. We have been everywhere doing everything and. And if even if you don't see it in a magazine, or if it's if you don't see the representation in a particular club organization, it doesn't mean that it it doesn't exist, and so that's you know that's that's a huge part of the work is to tell a new narrative, and to tell a narrative that again is empowered, and really helps us to find a way to. We may not ever get back to those those places where we are completely. and. There's some parts of it. You know as you as you pointed out we don't want. That's what I wanted to ask next because. As I said that after I said that I realized sort of like a missing, my logic would be that. Let's say you're. You know you're a slave, and you're supposed to build the Egyptian Pharaoh's tomb right and so you're forced to learn to be a stonemason and you build these. Of. Human engineering that will be celebrated right for thousands of years. Does that person who was in slave to build King Tut's tomb. Look and be like now. That was the life right I learned stone masonry by God I was good at it, or is it just the? please. Don't invite me to be nostalgic about my agrarian background exactly because I happen to be there like under force of a whip. That's right so I'm not going to get like all. Sentimental about living close to the land. Exactly it's gotta be tricky well for a lot of people like you go back. CAN YOU WANNA? People go back and you maybe over embellish. Accentuate. Your hardships because it creates this personal narrative But, that's a whole that level it is, it is and again. That's why I stay. I stay grounded in new narrative creation. Going back in in your family history and recognizing how you've been empowered doesn't negate the bad stuff, right? How do we take things that that actually could be in service of a better life right now and create something new for ourselves is what I think are ask is. Because I'm. I you know as much as I appreciate the ways that that that folks have had historical context doesn't mean I need to go back to those places in every way, but I think that sometimes in our effort to distance ourselves from those bad things. We throw away the good stuff, too. And, so how do we because for instance for some people living you know in the country or you know learning about you know or being engaged with our food? Ways may feel backwards right. It may feel like a lack of progress, and so what I what I hope to do through this work is to really help. Lift up the those skills, those abilities and your quality of life. As actually progressive and a way that you can live longer, you know, be be healthier, and find more joy in connection. So is there any? Is there any sentimentality? For Nature. Is it all like? Is it. Is there any language of returning to, or is it all framed? As there's this thing out there? That, we haven't engaged in in it's beautiful. and. Let's go find out about it. For for the folks in our community. Let's also recognize that. The outdoors And Nature Wild remote nature. Has Not always been regarded as a safe place. For Black Bodies I. Remember I was I was about ten years old and I was like watching a special about. Civil rights movements, and you know the whole kind of a timeline of various events happening, which honestly don't feel a lot different than the life than what we're living through right now and there was the. There was the story of Emmett till you know, and then for for those who don't know until was you know Chicago, boy, and what people? Did when they moved to northern cities may still had family living in the south. They would send their children to the south for the summertime, so that parents could work and for various reasons to maintain those familial connections, and so he like. Emmett till so he'd gone in the North Yeah. He was he was. He was visiting his southern relatives and You know. Got was misunderstood and ended up brutally. He didn't have A. He, Addressed, yeah, a white woman without the appropriate deference. Yeah, what with which was fatal for for for Ya and he's a boy. To death and tied him to a piece of milk, women threw him off a bridge, so so what happened? Hearing that story and seeing how you know his. His mom wanted to have an open casket so that the world could see what had happened to her boy, the brutality of it I was you know I was. I was shocked and I remember going right to my dad. After seeing that and I had asked him you know 'cause he lived in Texas all of his life and I asked him I was like you know. Do you know of anyone who's been lynched? And he just leveled with me, he said. All the time. And that helped me to get president. A really young age that there's been a disruption of a feeling of safety and belonging that exists in generational memory. You know if your dad or if your grandfather can tell you. Firsthand stories and accounts of those types of things happening and who you know, still hold those fears of something happening to you, you know we send outdoor Afro sent you know folks on all kinds of different adventures whether it be Whitney or Kilimanjaro and I can't tell you that when those expeditioners go out, you know just the real fear and concern that those families have for the safety of those folks. For and I think that's something that you know we we. Some groups can take for granted that you can go out and you can feel okay, and you might worry about wildlife to some extent if you're not experienced with it, but for black people. It's about being worried about other humans. I. Was I was talking to writer one time who wrote a piece of bow being? About being black and being afraid to be on public lands. And I called him to ask him what like. What he meant. Right. I wanted him to back it up like what he meant when he said that. I could see that someone would say. Let's say someone said I have concerns of being out in the woods I'm public land and getting shot by one hundred. And we could go and look in the news and see if we can find like. Oh, here's a case were guy. Happened Year or two ago? Someone like Mr, a woman walking her dog. For Dear John so we could go find instances that would substantiate or not says I'm afraid to grizzlies and be like. Let's dig into this right. Is, being. Afraid of grizzlies warranted or not now they might still be like yeah. I get it statistically. It won't happen, but I'm still afraid of him. Yeah, but I want to understand like the fear of public lands. Yeah, I don't know if it's public lands I think it's just the fear of just being out. You know in places where you know there's not anybody places. We don't feel defensible I wanNA. Keep. Let's be clear here when it comes to. Incidents of racism rarely. Do you ever get the proof? And really rarely. Do you need it? To be validated in the case of violent physical safety and violent crime. Yeah, would we know these? So here's here's how we address it in our organization, because it comes up pretty frequently for us, and we're not out here. Yeah, we're not out here. You know publicizing our stat and things like that and we don't need to know for it to be valid right if someone you know tells me that they are confronted by a group of. Of people who want to know why you're there, you know what what what are you doing? How long are you going to be here? You know that's not really friendly and inviting angle right, and so those are the kinds of things that are really tough to help. People understand that just the unwelcoming peace can be enough of of a barrier for people who you know are already coming in with a lot of again a lot of historical narrative. Things that you know we've been. We've grown up knowing about and so when you go out to a place and people are confronting your very reason for being in a place that alone is is problematic, and those are the kinds of barriers that we have to push through in our work. I've personally experienced. It and I've got tremendous nature swagger. I go out and I don't feel ever that I. Don't belong in Public Lands, but I've absolutely encountered people who asked me a few too many questions to prove that you know I belong here and I'm not a Trespasser here and I think it gets back to this idea that. I think this is kind of traditional mindset that public lands belong to certain people you know, and that even human humans as a whole you know, don't belong in true wilderness and I think there's just a bigger conversation we have to have. You know around just this idea of humans belonging in nature, and how we can exist with nature, generally speaking but I think that when it comes to communities that have not one felt historically have known. Known historically that they're not welcomed Nan, and and that that things have happened in the woods, and there are statistics about that I mean from I believe eighteen, seventy, seven through nineteen fifty. There were forty four hundred instances of people being Lynch men women children shot main, and these are all, and this is just what we know you know so not everything gets reported not everything you know, make the front pages but it. It doesn't make it less true and so again. This is why the work I do feel so relevant because I want people to be able to come out in groups often times. People don't want to traipse out into the outdoors by themselves. They want to go out and groups of people to help them not only learn, but importantly to feel safe, and if people can continue to go out again and again which they do, you. You know very much. See like the work we do is like you know almost training wheels. If you will you know for people to get out and go, wow, okay. I know where to go I know how to get there. I know where to park. I know I'll be okay there and so there's there's there's a lot of work to do around welcoming, and then there's this other thing that happens though, and it's over welcoming. Like, Hey, how're you doing? Tour Guide. I walked me through. Walk me through what it feels like to be overwhelmed. just just what I said. You know where people are encroaching on your space. You and they're WANNA like. You know maybe. I don't know like. There's a great a really great video that you should watch, and your viewers could probably pull it up on Funnier die. It's Blair underwood and he has a spoof called black hiker. And basically, he's experiencing the whole range of what happens as a black man in the outdoors right everything from you know the white woman jogger who suddenly turns around and runs away because she is afraid of pursuit to the Park Ranger. You know who's basically been following you the whole time and then gets you at the trail head and says you need to sign the guest book and. And he's like. Why do I have to sign the guest book? Because you're a rule that I have to sign the guest book, and then at the end you know they break down. They said well. You know we just never seen. A black hiker is my first time I just. We just need to know that you were here. You know and so. That's what I mean by over welcoming. Wanted to like I almost want defend the over, welcome or because. Like does the at some point, does it like? Is there room for intention? I think that you know if you're aware like I've heard that because of the things that have gone on in this country yet. I've heard that black people often feel uncomfortable an unwelcome. In certain places. and. I don't want to contribute to that. Shit Yep so I. Don't want to also not acknowledged another person's presence. You can, lest it be misconstrued as hostility so in their head is like. I won't be a good person. I want to remedy a wrong, but then there are shitty actor. Yeah, you know. I think people put too much on it. Just just be with other people. I'm trying to be an apologist for the person who's like in their mind. I will not let this. I will not add to this, but when you encounter the tenth of those people. It's a lot like okay all right. We're welcome. Okay like let me let me enjoy. My can't fire here. Our explain explain like a thing that like a way that that would happen to somebody. As animals okay, we we human animals. We sort of like become. Trained, and what's what we see like? Right we become. We just like subliminally. See Things and when you come trained what we're. What we know is around US A. Point when I traveled to other countries like in America. I could see a person walking down the street. And I have a sense of what like when someone walks by my house like that person is exercising right. That person looks like they're racing home for some reason that person looks like. They're biking to the office. I don't deliberately deconstruct it but whatever it's like. There's a guy that bike helmet not sue on the shoulder I. Don't know I never even get into it. I just know boy go to other countries and we're driving down the road, some faraway land another continent. It bothers me that everyone walking down the street. My cues in a Mike I. Don't know like I. Don't know what they're doing. And, even laugh about our inability. To tell like what is up with people. You know because all your. Mind if you see me out here with hiking boots, okay, let me finish my story. Okay so. If you, if I so my entire life or let's say someone spent their entire life in. An area where all they've ever seen walking. Down a trail in the woods would be like that dude's hunting. That woman's walking her dog the woman with the Subaru outback, in the like the. Nylon hat in wraparound shades in jogging is like an exercise fanatic and build these things in your head without thinking about it, and then you see a person like you see A. Person of another you see a black I other race. You've never seen there. You the. There's a trigger. Were you like it doesn't fit into what I'm accustomed to, and I could see how it would. How would bring a bow and someone like a need? Make sense of it. And see that's exactly why we really have to lift up different representation. This is again. This is a representation problem, because if you don't see people who look like me in the glossy pages of the magazine, or you know you know out an in an empowered way, then yeah, you are going to be startled and perhaps disrupted in in terms of your perception. Startled but disrupted. Yeah, where you're then because you can't. You don't passively make sense of it. So, then you're you. Put in this position of trying to actively make sense of it. Yeah, I'm laying it all out for yeah yeah. Comfortable, but I'm certainly lay out. You know like Leo. Like how are like power heads were yeah, and I just I just you know again i. go back to you know. Sometimes. We over think shit. To like. You're paid over. I mean what I mean by that is you know Kim people just be you know and just say hey, you know whatever whatever the norm of communication is forgiven, place and just leave it at that you know because the idea that somehow you know you or you know the example that you gave you know has to be responsible for creating my experience is in its in and of itself disempowering. You Know I. Mean it's my. Man This isn't not the job that person and I just feel like I. Don't take it as my job. Okay I. Don't take it as my job. I'm not do good jokes, but. It's like I take it as a moment where. All the things that end your head that you don't calculate yeah. Okay. On the subject of just encountering an unexpected face, yeah, an unexpected body, yeah! All the things you don't take account for. In, maybe it's like. Maybe it's an an inherited. Racism that you can't get rid of. Whatever is stuck in your head when you? A person you don't know you're forced to then be like. How would it be? How would it be that they're here? Not Antagonistic, but it sticks like it just sticks you kind of wonder like what are the circumstances of the individual? Yeah, live here. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, I'm telling you that kind of interest in intrigue to be on the other side of that. Is Not fun in this not welcomed I it to like I mean not that. I'm anywhere near that, but don't like. I have been in situations in my life where you are aware of your presence, and it sucks to live like that all the time. Yeah, on public lands, and that's why I mean again. This is why the work is so important because we have to lift up and really work through this perception that has been fed to us that simply not true of who belongs in the outdoors because I want. The thing is people. Ask me all the time. You're like okay. What like what are you really working toward here? Right? And when you say I'm working toward I get it because. Like. How do you say that elevator? Not An elevator, but You know reef interaction. Well, it's been consistent, and that is you know I mean we've learned a lot of things over the years, but I think your question really gets to. You know what the goal is here. You know 'cause when the work is done. There's not going to be some big. You're done and there's the parade. Down Main Street and you know. Organization. Kind of parade mind you. It's not you know that big big moment it is really that quiet moment. Right in that moment when we look up. When that guy that you just described or that woman or whoever looks up? and. They're seeing people who look like me out. Recreating enjoying the outdoors. In proportion to their population and their opportunity. And it's no big deal and you don't go the faulk right I mean. I'll give you a concrete example since I know you like concrete examples. Comfortable theoretical, that's alright. Go back around. LET'S DANCE SO I. Think a lot about and you're old enough to remember this to know this. Live through this trajectory to like a roughly the same age right? Yeah, so like when we were little, I rarely get to say that to people so I'm going to say. Yeah really. A little kids at the same time right, but usually it's like what I was a little kid, you know. but I was little. You little. I'm sure you remember like you could smoke cigarettes everywhere. You could smoke them in the bank. You could smoke on a train. You can smoke them in the restaurant, smoking or nonsmoking. You could smoke. You could smoke. Airplanes in the back of the. Nowadays this love Ashtrays. So, So like you could smoke everywhere. It was not even thing it was. It was something that no one questioned. You know there were people who probably were individually bothered by it, but generally in the culture it was just something that was accommodated and then over time. It became began to be not okay in certain places. And then it got to the point where you really couldn't smoke anywhere and now started. Take pity on smokers like out in the rain. You know you can't even smoke. You can't even smoke cigarettes in front like within twenty feet of building now right, but think about where we started. And think about how it took a whole generation to really shift how we think about tobacco how we think about smoking how we think about you know the appropriateness of it as well as greater awareness of the health consequences of that that were always there, but it took a lot of. PULLEYS and levers and organizations and PR, and you know a lot of different ways that folks worked together to create that shift, and so that's one of the reasons why I. Want to be on this show. That's one of the reasons why you know one big reason why outdoor Afro is because we have to be a part of those police in levers that tells a different narrative and gets us to that ordinary moment where black people again can be outside, enjoying the outdoors, being strong, beautiful and free, not people who have to be rescued from the hood in order to have some kind of conversion experience in the outdoors because that's been. That's been the predominant narrative right like people like I'll tell them wilderness therapy, and I'll tell ya intercity kids out to the. So here's the narrative right. It's Even when I tell people what I do, sometimes their response is like the opposite of what I do. You know it's like Oh. Ru is so great what you're doing for the poor black children in. Your your rescuing yeah! A weekend out hiking. Yeah, exactly and then they're going to become conservationists after that will go home and. Tell, their families, and then you know the whole family is GonNa. Michael Leila sit with that for a second and think about what really happens. What happens is that you have provided everything for this young person. You know worthy no matter what, but you provide everything the gear the equipment. The you know the where to go the how to do you have isolated them from their family in delivering this experience there just out with peers, but they're not with their family, and then they go, and they have some kind of experience that is will absolutely be memorable, and there's a lot of narrative. Of, people having like these breakdowns and breakthroughs, or some kind of you know evangelical experience in the in the outdoors, and then these kids. Are are believed to be changed and then they'll have this this long lifelong value of protecting and loving the outdoors. And what I see, get get played actually gets played out as these kids go home and their families may or may not be interested in what that experience was. And the KID has no way of getting back to that experience without you, your organization and so there's no chance for that repeated experience and you and I both know that it's not the one time experience. It's the lifelong experience that usually starts in your home and happens again and again and again when you get to learn lessons, and you get to fail, and you get to be successful, and you get the whole range of experience, and that is what creates this passion. That's love the sense of the need. Need to advocate and protect and be a part of that equation, but it's not the one time backpacking trip and I think that we missed a really big opportunity you know I think as long as we're looking at communities that as as needing to be saved or needing to be rescued. Then we are tapping. We're not tapping into the full breadth of communities, a empowered selves, and that you know there are people like me. You know who are professionals and people who are leaders of of of our organization. They're all. You know busy working professionals of all kinds of backgrounds, and they you know, bring a or canary nece to the potential for who can be an expert in these experiences, and then we're in our communities, doing these experiences, and so we can do them over and over and over and over again, and they not be episodic. You know and a photo for the newsletter. So that's. So again. We're just to kind of get back to your question. I'm so glad you asked about like the. 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Maybe people who've always use hand-me-downs and they finally WANNA to go get a new rifle, and they know that their rifles out of date doesn't shoot great. And what should they do, so? He finally address this question in a very permanent serious way, and we have come out working with Wetherby with the wetherby vanguard meat eater addition. We designed this rifle with rather be to create what I think is one of the best hunting guns on the market indefinitely for the money is the Goni should get accurate, durable affordable just straight up cool. Has Everything, that I personally love and hunting rig long with some bad ass custom details including number two contour spiral fluted barrel, which is just like a gorgeous, cool thing, Sarah, code coding, it's got a Monte, monte-carlo polymer stock an awesome camel pattern. It's got a meter grave. Hinge floor plate. This is a rifle. It looks in shoots like a costume rifle, but it's at a decent price. It's a gun I am proud to bring people, and it really solve that question about how to get Max value at a reasonable price and get a gun. You're going to have a long time. At wetherby DOT COM or go to your local sportsman's warehouse store. You don't go into Sportsman's warehouse y'all do man so one of my favorite sporting goods stores great expertise on the part of the people that work there. And they stock for local activities. You go in there. You find the stuff you need for where you're at, and you can go there now. Check it out. The weather vanguard meat eater. Dot Com. Before you got. Your is now talking about a thing another thing he had read that you were talking about the birding. Picnicking conundrum. You mentioned how. To GET PEOPLE INVOLVED OH, yeah! You have two very different responses. If you, if you set up sort of a day of burning out at X. Location, and like nobody calls you. Nobody writes in like. And then you say well, we're going to go out to the same location and have a picnic, and that also everybody comes because I guess it's just more approachable and you just happen to have along with you. You're spotting scope and some binoculars achieve the same burling birds. The intention is is still met like whatever it was like. People just like were like doesn't grab them to go birding. Yeah, well, first of all I got to crops, props for digging into the crates, because that like I that interview I did like. Eight years ago. Excel. Yeah like deep into the crate. Criminals are Joe. Yeah, well I mean it's still true. I mean it's an evergreen. Issue where people you gotta pay attention to people and ask them what they want, right and people. I'll tell you the thing that got a lot of people. Initially with us is that people just want to meet other people? They just wanted to meet other people with similar interests, and so when you create opportunities for people to connect with people then there's all kinds of magic. Open and so it's absolutely true I love you know watching wildlife watching birds I. don't really consider myself a bird. Her per se just because it kind of. kind of gets us to a very narrow point in my mind, and I want us to highly specialized. Yeah, and I. You know I, I. Mean I never cannot notice a bird. Let's put it that way but my tracking a meticulous life list or anything like that. I can't say that I do, but I think it's really important for people to notice birds, also, because noticing birds and other wildlife really puts you in tune with the rhythms of of where you are, and and and the health of those places and I know I love going to Lake Merritt in Oakland which is the oldest wildlife sanctuary in the country And, it's also a fine place to have a cookout and I grew up as a little girl, going to places like Lake Mary with wildlife all around us, but not necessarily the focus of why people go there, but you you appreciate it right and you know it's important that and there are people indeed who bring the bread crumbs and buy seed, and really engage with wildlife there, but what I like to do is is exactly that like find a way that people are open to getting outside, and even like hiking like to say that you know you want people to go for a hike that sets up a lot of expectations that people about skill difficulty. Hardship. You know and so sometimes I always say, let's go for a stroll. You know like just even just shifting like how you talk about things opens the door wider for people to feel like okay. I can do that and so when I say okay, let's have you know a cookout. people show up for that because you know, people love food, and people love people and and. Get it and get it. I can imagine how this will go. Yeah, but if you might call the birding, people might think it's some kind of you know very finite educational. Thing that's happening or that. They have to come in with a certain amount of knowledge or bring binoculars, or or whatever, and so by eliminating those things you know, and getting people to just show up and I have the spotting scope, and I have the bird guides and a chance to talk to people about the migration of these birds, and and and also one of the things I love to do. With outdoor Afro is to talk about just migration histories of black people as we mentioned earlier sooner. Sooner arose, and how we can learn, and and really connect in with the migration of wildlife, similar to the migration of people and thinking about like you know, what are you? What what what do you need during? You Know The Times that you are. People have traveled, you know. What did they need to be sustained What do they need to feel safe and and talk about? Also you know those same birds that were around. You know who are who are flying from Alaska along the Pacific flyway. so it's a really fun way to connect people into a conversation that's not just about this purely academic exercise, but one that is really about belonging and connecting and noticing and I've been really thrilled to see the ways that people have really on, and and we've got people in our community. Who who who say their Burgers we? We have you know really robust number of people who just you know have embraced wildlife, observation and engagement but you gotta meet people where they are. Do you Do you ever pitch people on it like? Do you ever encounter someone who says no interest man, no interest. And do you like cool I respect at or do you then go like? Oh? But hear me out. Okay, so the conversation for people usually go something like. I'll tell people what I do. and. They'll say wow my camping now like hiking and like okay all right well I mean. Do you you like to fish? Well Yeah. You Know Me and my dad. There's a story you know there's always going to be like a breakthrough story that you can connect with. That relates to something that people are already doing another thing that people do. Is tailgate. Like if you ask me like tailgate is like day camp like. tailgating like at a game. Yeah, that's Day Camp I mean if you look at all the equipment that people buy, it's the same equipment that people buy when they're going camping. You know complete sometimes the tent like you know the. Everything like everything is very. You know primitive in those environments with. Rarely, any running water cooler with is yeah. Yeah I mean. Exactly so you know so getting people to just see the things that they're already doing as outdoors because I think that the other problem we've had, is it? There has been this representation that there's the right way. There's like there are. There are the best ways to be in the outdoors, and then there's ways to be in the outdoors that don't really matter as much and again. Again I look at how you know. Especially busy working families stressed communities and the idea that someone can find leisure in an experience like dangling off. The side of a mountain is ludicrous. You know like instead you know people who have recreational time if they have the ability to take time off because a lot of people work through weekends or they work in the evening, times. WHAT THEY WANNA do probably do a cookout, or maybe you know, connect with you know some of their friends and go fishing, and not do some of these really high adrenaline far away activities, and so that's been a really important part of our work. And when I did a poll early, we had just enough of a sample size. Asking people like what's in the way for you like how? How can we help solve? Some of the ways of of you know getting you outdoors if you're not already and Gear and equipment was huge. People just did they were lost about you know what do I need or what do I already have that it can be you know re purposed for outdoor experiences, and you know as you know quite a lot. You already have that. You don't have to go and buy where to go what to do. fears and perceptions fears of not only of course wildlife, but also of other people not feeling welcome, but the number one reason was time. Zora! And here here's the thing it wasn't that. There's not enough time, but it was the perception that you needed a lot of time in order to get out and so if you can't go to Yosemite for a week, then you those accounts. Right so so that's what we set out to do was to help create opportunities for people to get out in nature in chunks of time, and so we started doing like these like You know these hiking happy hours. You know where people might spend time like in a bar or you know something after work between work and going home, but instead invite them to go out and the nature with us. creates opportunities on a weekend. That took more no more than two hours from start to finish. Finish so that you still could go and participate in the soccer practice or take care, grandma, go to church, or whatever and so you know, we really are meeting people and especially busy working families in the point of their need in order to open the door to access, and then we can take people along a continuum to do more things. You know things to take more time, but by then we've. We've established trust and we've also established a way for people to feel more comfortable. Do you. Do you play Do, you ever play a numbers game about a representation in sort of like the industry of the outdoors or the the nonprofit like the non industry of the outdoors, do you? Do you look and think like man? It would be great if we could get to some level of parody. Yeah, or is it more interested in individual experiences? And you and you're not using a metric of totality. Yeah, I think when you start playing the color by numbers game, it's dangerous I. Think You I. Don't you know I'd? Rather I. Don't play the color by numbers meaning like we gotTa Have X. number again I go back to. Looking like America. Let's let's start there. Let's look. Let's be proportionate at least right by gender by raise, but also really looking at where people live like I don't expect to see a big population represented of of of people who look like me in places where we don't even live right, know and so or where when I look at for example places near Oakland where there's like tons of beautiful hiking trails when you go on, those trails. Population of people who were there. Yeah and so I expect you know where people live and proves to be true that where people live, and where is accessible to people, they are I think it's really important, however that the industries that are associated with the outdoors do a better job of representing that reality. and I think that's what we don't see enough of, and that's when you know. Again are our beginnings in working? Working with the outdoor industry years ago, there are very few folks who looked like me who were on the show floors and really talking about representation in this way I'm really proud to say that they've come a long way but again I'm I'm looking for representation that actually feels realistic and represent that actually does represent the realities of what people do versus it being just a marketing strategy. I think. Representation I I think questioned I want to know. Where they make you feel 'cause we noticed I. Don't know how many years ago Brandon we love and use a lot mountain house. dehydrated food products e familiar. And their packaging has always had a group of people camping and sort of though historically. That's the painting. Members like Oh and then it went to. Million years it was like packer like in the Pacific northwest like a PM, but they change the packaging and also and there's a picture. Of A very diverse looking group of people I think there's I can't remember exactly now. Human One woman, yeah version of Asian descent, yeah, and black person. The man's. GLAC right so when you see that. Like great applause for you or like. You know when I do I look at the company's leadership. That's what I look at. That tells me the real story. Is that right? WHO's represented? Yeah? Sweet Who's on your board? This board. Who's WHO's NECE- sweet? Because I believe that. Equity and representation starts with design and not with optics. You. Know just because you hired a model you know to be on. The cover of your product doesn't mean that you really stand for, and that's one of the reasons why you know. We're really thoughtful about the partners that we have as part of our partnership portfolio, because I really WanNa know what you're doing. When no one's looking, you know and and I also want to make sure that. that. We have a reciprocal relationship where we can learn from you and you can learn from us. You know it's not just a you're gonNA. Pick our brain for diversity, equity and inclusion, because we have so much more to offer than that, you know. We have a network of just super brilliant people who come with their own expertise that continue to help sh- shape outdoor afro. That is also. Able, to move into some of these organizations like the thing that's really made me so happy. It inspired to see so many people who become outdoor Afro leaders get awakened to a whole industry of professional opportunity that they didn't even know existed. You know and so and we're talking about not entry level professionals. We're talking about mid career. People who are able to pivot some good education and experience into these fields, and and get good jobs and jobs that have influenced and so I really care a lot about you know, what's the holistic way that a company or a nonprofit organization is showing up and I know that if you've got folks who are really at the helm of decision, making then I'll have a lot more confidence in the authenticity of those efforts. I, have a thing in my. No, I don't WanNa. Read I'll tell you I have. No, that's not well. Articulated, says fear of cynicism around inclusion. And what I meant when I wrote that is that. I don't like look at our own company okay. I'm aware in my head. I'm aware that we've built a company that is. Equal? Fifth about fifty percent female about fifty percent male, it might be a little bit offered. It's like remarkably better. Than the industries that we work okay so I look at that and I feel proud about that, but then I think. You'd want someone. You're forced into a conversation about this about gender, equity. You're forced new conversation. I don't like the feeling. Of Needing to say OH, no look! To. See. Oh! is a woman right because like? I Want I run the I don't want to risk. Making her feel trivialized or making her feel like an emblem, right? Or that she's not qualified. Yeah, so it's like the winds up being really hard like. I I see it I. Acknowledge it I'm proud of it, but I'm afraid to start. Applying numbers to all this shit, less people, all of a sudden start looking around the room. Be like why. Why am I here? My here because you run around counting all this shit up in your head, yeah! And you're shooting for some and I'm like part of this master plan like that what I'm doing. Your was here because I'm. Kicking, ass at work and I on the flipside. Tell me like explain to me like how? I deal with that. How do they deal with that like well? I think one of the things that challenges us right now. Especially in this time is that people I call thirsty for diversity. People just want it just. Because it's emblematic. You know and I and you can reassure man you can tell like when it's now got a, they got. A gun to their head, but like they feel. Pressured like yeah. Yeah Yeah and you know we're really thoughtful. Can Smell. Being a grant deliverable like a mile away. You know because yeah, you know people want the picture they want you know they want us to explain grant deliverable well for some not for profit organizations. You know they're. They have mandates through their funding streams to commit to diversity equity and inclusion right and that might mean that might mean that. You need to make sure that your programs have representation outreach actual engagement. Engagement of certain demographics and their folks who reach out to us, routinely you know we wanNA partner with you and for us, you know partnership means a few different things. Right partner may mean like you've got something already baked in. You just want to invite us to be a part of that thing that we didn't necessarily have a part in creating, but we're invited, and then the photo get snapped and. It looks like it's diverse right, but it wasn't really thought partnership involved. It was just kind of more of an optical exercise. Another version of partnership is when you know. Two or more groups get together and think about something that makes sense for them. All participate in. That feels a lot better, and then the third is just outright sponsorship like we. You know we love what you're doing. We want to give you support to keep moving in the direction that you're moving in. And so I think optics. No, no optics that people really want to support what you're doing. Don't necessarily need the center themselves visually in in. In a way that validates its success. So I, think to your question though I think it always boils down relationships, right and people even online. No, you've experiences to like people know when you're authentic and when you're not. And, so I really want to encourage us all to get in better relationship with each other you know. I feel thankful like I'm on board right now with the Wilderness Society and we've been in relationship with each other for over a decade, and it started with them, just seeing me saying my work, and using their platforms to share what I was already doing that in co it. They're like. Hey, this is what she's doing, and we want to recognize her all the way to helping us with some office space in DC and then. Then now I'm on their Governing Council, but it was like a long time for me to feel like, and I get asked to join boards all the time. You can tell that you're on the normal path to a board member. Yeah, right did not just someone a related. There's a courtship there is and so I think that the same thing is has to be true in our workplaces where we really need to get different sectors in the same room together and one of the goals that I have for outdoor Afro, you know. In this conversation obviously is is a is a little piece of this, but we have to get out of the the same conversations with the same people and mix things up and get into other sectors where they may be a little further along in some of these areas that we care about, but also it gives us some exposure to different ideas, and and and really helps us to do a better job of network, we weaving and be able to have access to other resources that we wouldn't otherwise be able to like I feel at times. You know that insularity makes its feels like a pond. That's overfished right? It's just like. It's it's the people going back to the same people the same conversations. It's the same people on the same panel discussions, and I'm just like I'm done I wanNA make new friends I. WanNa go to different places. I WANNA learn how other? People in sectors or doing things, and and take those new ideas back home and create a sense of real innovation. Do you feel like you get. When you talk about the pod being overfished, do you feel like you get a lot of calls that come from superficial? Internet searches, yeah, definitely I mean I'm sure that we probably pop up on the first page of you know putting in just a few select keywords and I think it takes people a while to get to know who we are and. And the nuanced way that we show up that you know informs the best partnerships you know and and good partnerships. They just have for us. They've taken time. We have a lot of people right now. Who were coming on board? You know and I'm not deducting points for timing by any means because I think we got to start someplace, but. I do want people to know that we're not interested in just getting a check, you know we're not interested in you. Know being a social media, mention or putting them on our social media. We're really looking for people who we can go out for a beer with and talk about stuff and really get to know, and and really innovate, and think about you know new ways of addressing old problems, and again it really comes down to relationships and I always say that. Change only happens at the speed of relationships. You know so all of all the folks are out here trying to. Rush Kids and communities to the altar of conservation you know in a in a single grant year or a single program are just not not gonna get it right. and I think we've got a really really respect that we're you know. Where people connecting to people people connecting with places, and the more we understand about people and places, and take the time to really get to know those places. The will land in a really solid place where we can build from there. Room Up. How can people find you? Outdoor Afro across all the platforms Love to hear from. People love to hear how we can be in relationship with each other. The. I'm pretty confident. Lao People be real annoyed that they had listen to us have a difficult conversation. They don't want that, but a lot of people will Hopefully labile reach out to you well I. Think a lot of people are GonNa WanNa know what they can do more than just reaching out. And what would you say if I was just like? You know, it'd be really interested in doing something with outdoor Afro. I. Think you know we're in a really interesting time in our country right now. Where people are, they're wanting to find like where the pathways the lanes that feel relevant to them. you know so obviously? People in the outdoor spaces are coming to US versus from other industries but I just would invite people to start with checking us out and really getting to know outdoor Afro online before. Coming to us with this thing that they already have baked in that. They want us to do with them. I think the people who take the time to get to know because we're not going anywhere. You know there's no like. You know deadline here for people to connect with us, so take time where this all goes. I gotta get in before it goes away I mean we're we're not going anywhere. We're we're solid. We've been around for ten years. KNOWS CON. That's interesting point you know, and and for me it's been really important to build a professional organization that is responsive to people who want to. To connect with us, we've got a great team of folks who we can connect them with. So if it's a program, I've got a great program director. Who could you know? Get into conversation with people and find out if there's something of mutual benefit there, people can donate to us I mean we're not for profit organization and we need resources to to maintain that. That high level of professional delivery that we do for everyone, and then we invite people to get outside with us. You know always like to say that you don't have to have an Afro to be a part of outdoor Afro so if you believe there's going to be a stupid question and I've made that a goal of my life to not think that it just. Just go ahead and ask that was. I was going to ask like tavern. Afro to join now. No, I mean we, we really welcome everybody who believes in what we're doing right, so if you believe in what we're doing, and you WANNA be a part of that, you know we welcome in so if you were having an event like me and Janas showed up. Off. You'd have a ball and we want to get kicked out oh God. No, no, no I mean you know. Here's the thing about outdoor Afro. That's been great you know, and that is specificity has been universal. We could have been called. People of Color and the outdoors. and that's like everybody in nobody, and sometimes sometimes in our reach to try and include everybody in everything we. We can get lost in that and I think because we have been so focused in our network outreach and engagement that people can see exactly where we are on a map in their relationship, you know either close or further away from it, but they know you know there's a definite dot on the map and that kind of specificity I have found has made our message feel more accessible and universal to more people, and because people get that people sometimes choose to come out with us and sometimes they say you know what you guys need to have some space to work some stuff out and I don't have to. Her myself in those spaces, but as far as like the welcoming piece you know when we have our our annual training. You know that obviously comes up. You know people want to know You know if if you know, they need to be a certain way. And we always say that everyone is welcome and You know we have multi racial families, and all kinds of folks you know who bring you know all kinds of. De's and geographies and economic classes, so we're. We're really happy to be an open door for people who are behind what we're doing. Well thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me hopes the people come find you. I'm sure and I hope some people come find you. You'RE GONNA. You're GONNA fish tomorrow. I'm looking forward to that. We're going to eat fish tonight I'm loving that idea. What kind of I WANNA. Know what am I miss well from from? From my trip for Daas Boat Season Two dose boat I brought home. A Bunch Lake trout fillets. Should those good men? Mostly smoking it. Was I was GONNA smoke them. But then we fell in love with eating them grill one left, and then I put some Turkey wild, Turkey, breast and Brian. And want to have people were hours. Cook Yams because I. Don't have to put off. Forget about them Nice Yeah I. Think. It's nice, but it's just lays now. I. Work and I brought. You guys something to. brought us some Cherry Jam. Then I made last month. So so, if you have maybe some ice, cream or something, no kids into it. Okay I will see later. You'll brody. We'll see you tomorrow. They can remark to it. Thank you bye.

Oakland Onyx TA Turkey John Chicago China John Gary Bhutan Johns Google Theodore Roosevelt Conservatio Moose Michigan Matt Elliott
#439 - Youth Pastor 4 vs. David Smalley

Dogma Debate

2:50:37 hr | 1 year ago

#439 - Youth Pastor 4 vs. David Smalley

"Access to over sixteen hundred hours of commercial free content by supporting the show at Patriotair Dot com slash. David C smalley. What you're about to hear me upset you or or both but most importantly it will make you think from Los Angeles California? This is done with David. Smalley to welcome to Dogwood Abate. You know I've I've found myself really digging into building relationships ships and continuing conversations with similar people as some of you may be split on this. I haven't had a single negative comment about bringing back the same guest few times in a row except for those of you who want to fistfight Jeremiah. But I'll say I'll say that From a lot of you out there and I can't believe I haven't thought about this before now initial for for ten years that most of you you have these types of conversations with like the same person or a two or three people in your family in this goes on for years right and sometimes it goes. It goes on for Thanksgiving and you never talk again and so part of what what drives me to do. The show is continuing to inspire you to have the conversation so I kind of liked this idea of bringing back the same folks almost as a project right Does if they moved to see if you move to see if you learn anything so that you can hear how this overall conversation tends to go and today's no different different. Yes I did three shows in a row for the first time ever with the same person with Jeremiah. We did part one two and three Today I've back with our friend. The youth pastor pasture now coming up soon John Christie is going to be joining me I am the process of scheduling a couple of new guests People who have gone over to David Cease Volley DOT COM. Don't forget get to see David. SEE SMALL DOT com and click be a guest fill up at forms. You WanNa be on the show and I have had a few Christians recently say they would like to talk to me so we're putting them on the schedule. Those are coming in the next week or so and I also I'm going to be doing some you know. The political season is really ramping up. I've got tons of opinions on this stuff If you follow me on twitter you've already seen some of it but I'm going to dive deep in sort of do some but I used to call smalley shorts like fifteen to thirty minute episodes of just me. Going off about whatever's happening with the impeachment the The debates the Bernie Elizabeth thing The diversity issue you mean all of it. I'm constantly ranting about. I'm going to start recording those putting those on for Patriots. If you WANNA get that content go oh sign up now. It's probably going to be. I'm GonNa go ahead and tell you. Now if you're going to sign up for the for the upgraded tier of the seven dollar tear because the five bucks gets you all the shows with commercials. Seven dollar gets you the no commercials all the content. Plus all of the archives and I will say for the five dollar you yeah get like eighty five to close to ninety percent of the archives. There's already a bunch of stuff there but I just can't guarantee all archives because some of the shows were for the seven dollars only so I'm going to put it that dollar level if you WANNA have if you wanna hear all of those political rats in my topics opinions on some of the things that are happening even even how the debates are run. How the questions are worded to certain people when they're not worried that way to the other candidate has? It's so bizarre it's not I'm not conspiracy Chrissy about it but it seems that certain people have definitely selected their candidates already and are being very manipulative manipulative. Go with how they're how they're operating which surprises politics that happens on both sides of the Irish get it but if you're interested in my opinion on that stuff goes support in Beijing on it is patriots dot com slash. David Smalley now usually. When I talked to my guest we go on for hours? So I'M GONNA go ahead and get started. Let's jump into it. Please welcome my guest. John Gary Youth Pastor. John How are you. Hey Hey what's up man. It's good to have you back to show. How are you? I'm good man. I'm good. I'm still claiming the climbing out of this head cold that I had during the holidays But Yeah So what I found really interesting about human is your willingness First of all to continue the conversation and your understanding of my goals and your willingness to continue to participate and then also your willingness to look at evidence. I mean when I I saw you on to talk like turn your hat sideways and make fun of of Make Fun of atheists. I thought this me and this guy are gonNA butthead. I mean he's he's GonNa come on. He's going to be condescending. He's not gonNA listen. He's GonNa talk over me and you were everything opposite of that. I was completely wrong in my assessment and You turn out to be really cool really open to evidence and now you're like spending hours and hours each week studying evolution Shen and you're not doing it from just a Christian perspective. You're looking at what Christians have to say and then you're also texting me going. Hey what do you say to this argument. And where do you get this information. And what's the best website for this and I gotTa tell you man. I want to listen to know that is regardless of how you come out on the end. That is the key the you are asking someone on the other side of the aisle. What their opinion is where they're getting their evidence from why they believe what they believe and I commend you on that I appreciate and I'm looking forward to this conversation by the way John has given me permission to release some personal text messages between the two of us about about evolution? We just sit and text each other for hours about evolution and I'm going to be sharing those with patrons so yet another reason to go. Sign up there but Jonah John. I just want to let you know I really admire your your thirst for the knowledge willing to To track things down and the fact that you're looking so deeply into the stuff because when we first talking you hadn't hardly budged on evolution so start off. I want you to know that I appreciate you. Where do you stand now on this stuff but thank you? Yeah I I I can also say that My assessment of you was totally wrong. I I totally I. I think I had At least six or seven in sleepless nights before our very first debate. Because I knew it was coming and I had no idea what to expect from an ats of all people and So so do I. I would definitely buy assessment of you as well and I understand not all atheists are just horrible individuals that WanNa make fun of Christians was and so on and so forth but that isn't easy Easy thing to see easy thing to look at especially in Christian culture like To be on this this is something I found interesting. I before before I ever talked with you. I watched the movie. God's not dead right and and this was a major her media representation of an atheist and I. I've had atheist friends before and I never looked at them in the same way that that professor her on that movie was portrayed and I went back and watched it again just not too long ago and I really do not like the way they portrayed the professor on that I I think they made him look very unintelligent. I think and if there's one thing about you David did you are not unintelligent. You might be wrong but you're not unintelligent I I didn't really like the way they representative in the way. They showed The atheist arguing against this high school kid in how they showed him like threatening him getting nose to nose with him in the hallway away and in the elevator and stuff like that. I'm like I don't think that would happen. A real life situation and of atheist where he goes Why do you hate God? Why you hate God and been Apia says because he took everything for me? And then it's like that Gotcha moment in God's not dead where he said how. Hate something if it doesn't exist so I kind of watched that movie with you is to be honest. Based off my atheistic assessment says. Well Man I gotTa tell you John. I didn't know that that means the world to me and I just want I really want to listen to pause for a moment and think about this for those of you who have followed our conversations and have been there for all of these. These talks stop and think if that street epistemology guide the John talked to had been his only interaction he might not be saying that. About God's not dead because it might fit in line with it if someone's making fun of you texting and typing the things that I was typing and then making a video that's chopped up. Just showing him look like he doesn't know the answers things. I mean. That could be a very different conversation conversation right now but the fact that John have been respectful to one another listen to one another and developed a friendship. It's caused him to go. Hey that Christian movie movie that I once thought was perfectly representing both worldviews. I realize is being unfair to atheists and that's a huge huge and I really appreciate that and I gotTa tell you as an atheist who watched that movie. That was my biggest problem and I think most people who who are listening if they watched that movie. That's their biggest biggest problem that they made the atheist seem like he acknowledged God existed and was angry at him which doesn't make any sense. It misrepresents sends many of our positions and very much made us look aggressive nasty mean which a lot of Christian circles. Try to paint us to be because the idea is if you don't have God you don't have morality so atheists are therefore nasty mean terrible people who don't care about anybody but themselves and then when they portray us that we in that movie movie it's really disgusting feeling. It doesn't feel like an honest conversation and so I really appreciate you saying that I can agree with that. Yeah not not something we we have discussed before it. All those something I I was thinking about maybe about two weeks ago or so when I was really mowing that over her but well cool so appreciate our seasons like I said we talk. We talk all the time and I appreciate your willingness especially like the fact that you're a big name actor texting a lowly civilian like me man you're stepping into now man you. Are you the name actor. Yeah Hey someday we'll see you got the you've got the is for it and the face you know. Well maybe I think you could aspire greatly to be a A convict and like like a prison for a movie I. I would love to see that. That's all they have written. No Man I'm telling you what you don't know them three foot seven so you you see that this is a tiny tiny kidding. But I'm really short and I can't ever be that intimidating back. There's no way you're three percents I'm on now do I have to. I have to wear a life jacket and hot tub. It's it's crazy we need flutie's here's the thing I've gone to an audition before for other was the father in a family and they were like. Yeah Yeah you'RE GONNA be. The burglar faces just to to burglary. Oh Man I could see home alone all over your mug. Yeah that's pretty much. Yeah so I'm uh-huh keep getting the bad guy roles you know so yeah. I'm sure that's not 'cause you're an atheist it's just you got the look miss the face. Yeah he adds definitely the face so speaking of The view changing as it did for God's not dead where yeah where'd Doug. Where did you stand just a little bit of background for the listener? Where did you stand on evolution? The first time we talked our back when you made that video on talk that I found around. And where are you now Kinda taking briefly through the journey and then we'll take it from there. Yeah that's not too hard at all When we first talked I was one hundred percent younger creationist I was completely against evolution as a even a possibility. Because I did not know about I I was completely four young I I did not know that there were so many old earth creationist and I did not know that there were so many theistic evolutionist and so the fact that I found people that hold my exact same worldview looking at the scientific evidence going okay this is undeniable but it still doesn't compromise Biblical accuracy. That is where man my ears perked up. 'cause I'm like wait a second. Here's one thing I do not ever want someone to be able to say about me. I do not want anyone to be able to say to me that I was indoctrinated. Which means basically basically to not challenge your beliefs to to uncritically look at your beliefs and hold it Just as that and so I I do not want. I want someone ever look at me like I was indoctrinated to the point. I never at least tested the other side at least never tested The theory of evolution solution honestly. I never tested all these All these different things that I've been looking at Dealing with my own faith dealing with older dealing with evolution and so now I am completely open to possibility within my worldview. I'm not open. I I believe everything can be rationalized scripturally. I think we've we've seen that over and over and over with me that that's not going anywhere so I said this on other too so you guys out there that are like leaning in listening. They're still not hope of Apia. Stick Pastor John on but there there definitely hope for me being accepting as possibly together Lucien EST or possibly on old earth creationist. Okay I appreciate all that Now one thing you said that I know the listener pump the brakes on and probably yelled at you for him to go. Is You said that essentially I'm going to paraphrase back to you but that it it is possible to marry all of this together and for theistic evolution to be true. It's possible you're not. You're not there yet. But you're you're seeing ways that it could happen happen in a way that does not threaten the information from the Bible. And let me just ask you. Do you mean that because the only way I could see that happening is if you take the position that everything in the Bible that contradicts known science should be explained as Hyperbole Lee Metaphor or parables or poems. Even if that's if that's your position I'm fine with moving on. Is that kind of where you're order that no actually not not not necessarily I believe you can find those elements in scripture so so it is not dishonest to look at scripture and say that there's a possibility of being metaphorical and hyperbole But then then you get into a lot of a lot of different issues and we could talk for ever on that but like you see the representation in a Metaphors and poems and Talk that within scripture all over the place from genesis to revelation and so in terms of the scientific department where we're talking about evolution and things like that. I don't think it would be dishonest in the least to look at they at least as a possibility of being hyperbole. Okay awesome That's cool now. Do you think it's possible that some people were inspired by God. They were speaking in as a as a profit they were spreading the word of God and then other times they would also right when they were not inspired by God and were incorrect about certain things and that still got passed on. Give me give me an example So Paul let's say were. Maybe he was correct about certain aspects of God's existence or Jesus resurrection or something along those lines and God is real and Jesus resurrected and then other times. Paul was writing As sort of a politician who didn't really think women should have authority and so he wrote women should have no authority over man. Women should not speak in the church they should remain silent for woman has a question she should go home and ask her husband's it shameful for women to speak in church. Women need to submit to men. Men should be the head of household in in God really didn't inspire any of that stuff is and again. Don't dive into that one specifically I'm saying. Is it possible that at one time. He was writing as a prophet and then He. It was established entrusted as profit and then other times he wrote and was not necessarily speaking forgotten was wrong on something else so here is my understanding of things like that is. When Paul was writing he wasn't writing under the I dea that he was rioting the New Testament And what would become the New Testament in our English versions. He was writing letters to churches. He was writing letters letters to people. So I can't really speak for I can't really speak for Paul's motivation. I can't really speak for I. I guess. How would I say this in terms of inspiration which we've talked about heavily in terms of what was originally written down and given the apostles and given to the disciples? I believe God had a hand in everything having having to do a scripture that everything that teaches and everything that it affirms as truth but not necessarily every single every single word down to does and ends and so on and so forth But it does not contradict and what it teaches them. Well it affirms as what will through look look let me get some low hanging fruit here for example. Hey I'm andy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor-blades most brands were overpriced over designed and out of touch. At Harry's our approach is simple. Here's our secret. We make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest honest prices for as low as two dollars. Each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy. Things like buyer world-class German Blade Factory. Obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering offering a hundred percent quality guarantee millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them and if you're not we hope you give us a try with this special offer get a Harry starter. Set with a five Blade Razor waited handle shave gel and a travel cover all for just three bucks plus free shipping just go to Harrys DOT COM Enter five thousand at checkout. That's Harrys Dot com code. Five thousand enjoy off the top of my head. There's two things I can think of without dyke diving into it or researching and again I can't I guess were recording. We could stop and Google some things things and come back and talk about it but the two things that atheist talking about all the time especially in the twitter verse and Facebook and all the battles back and forth to the memes that make fun of Christianity there are two basic things One is that rabbits chew their cud. The Bible says at the rabbits chew their cud. They do not and another one. Another verse CL- where it classifies bats as birds and bats are not birds clearly right so whatever you whatever you come across things in the Bible that are not scientific you can throw in the talking donkey along with that. Say a man and a dog. A conversation Belong had the conversation on the road to Damascus. Anytime the Bible able says something and make some sort of statement by bats are birds with rabbits to their cod or that Amanda dungannon conversation. Those are blatantly scientifically inaccurate. So kind of my question is the people who wrote those verses wrote those things down. Are you willing to say they were wrong about that. That part of the Bible is wrong but that person wasn't speaking for God. In that moment they were speaking as a fallible human being and it got published in the same book or or is there some other other explanation for why that's going to be accepted by you so that's where we got into. I think our second debate where I said did very clearly that in terms of English translations I think there are I believe I even said thousands of errors and different contradictions and so on. But I don't think we can necessarily speak to the original manuscripts on what they said or what they didn't say Like I said in terms of has being birds or rabbits chewing cud that is not a teaching That the Bible is representing. You'll never you'll never see a pastor and I I I honestly I've never heard that argument makes I'd have to look at the scriptures. I wrote down. Look at those later and we can talk talk about birds in a bats and rabbits a different time but the the thing is I don't know exactly what the original manuscript said so for me to say that just because our English versions might have some some things mixed up you also have versus in there like in job where it's a scientific statement where he says he hangs the Earth Earth on nothing. This is not something at that time period that they could have understood culturally. It was actually understood that Earth around that time period was on the back of some type of great animal and stuff like that and so you also have a scientific scripture there that it's it's it's it's stating something that was culturally unaccepted and it stating something that is scientifically correct that the earth is is free floating space obviously not floating in one position but the fact that The rotation around the sun and everything having to do with that how's the earth it hanging on nothing and so and there are a lot of different scientific scriptures that I don't have in front of me right now I could let me let me let me let me stop you there. Because I'm just GonNa all I know is essentially it's Leviticus Okay on the bad thing again. I don't want to dive into these specifics and debates were just getting. We're just laying a foundation to talk about evolution because the Bible title is not a very Science Savvy Book and We have overwhelming evidence to support evolution. And so when you said in the beginning of the conversation patients you're not open to becoming an atheist at all. You're not open to the Bible being wrong about it. I'm trying to figure out exactly why you would close yourself off to it or why. Oh you hold the Bible in such regard when it comes to science because there there are some really basic minor errors that if it were in fact inspired by the creator of the universe. It shouldn't have these types of basic scientific errors in it and one big one is. It's it's Leviticus. Eleven for anyone wanting to Google it. The belichick is eleven. Thirteen hundred nineteen. All it says is these are all the birds that you're not supposed to eat because their unclean and it goes on listing like an eagle of vulture all these different OBE raven an owl and it lists bats in there as a bird that you're not supposed to eat now now this is this is where this is the same book where people get that men and men should not be married. This is this is very important because whenever you say well. That's not a teaching. What kind of is it again? I don't know anybody who wants to eat bat. But it's a teaching that they are an unclean bird. And if this book is going to be regarded as God's laws lyrical laws in commands on how to behave this. Is God speaking with the. What's that what was that? Oh so that's how it's eleven thirteen. Nineteen Leviticus eleven bachelor. And it's it's just listening notes. Okay I appreciate it the idea is if this book is giving us a book of laws to follow but it's incorrect in its guidance. It's it's just proof that a fallible human wrote this not inspired by an all knowing God because if an all all knowing God was putting these rules down for humanity he wouldn't make a silly mistake like including bats as part of birds right and if you go well they you know the people at that time you know it was a thing that flew around in the Chicago one and looked at it. There was no way for you to tell that was a flying rodent instead of a you know instead of a bird. There's no way to tell the difference that I was with hold on. Then why do we trust these people with our eternity. Why do we trust these people with WHO can get married and who you know that their blood shall be upon their heads and we should stone these people to death for falling in love with one another what why why why? Why are certain aspects of this book Vikas taken so seriously when it's clearly wrong about something so simple that literally fourth graders now okay? So let's let's let's just entertain something. I guess from my point because I've I've never really looked at description but I'm just thinking about it in the moment her and in terms of God giving these laws out to the childrens children of Israel They don't know they. They did not know what we know scientifically typically today about about bass being birds right with. Would you agree with that Yeah obviously I mean some of them may have. They haven't wrote the whoever wrote this. They see something flying and they very well may classify it as bird. Maybe the fact that God put the law in that way is to say okay not not necessarily calling a bird but saying if you as Israelites as a people recognize that bat as a bird I don't want to just name all the bird and then you go eat a bat and you die so I if I had had to do with the cultural understanding of them thinking bats were birds at that time. Just because they flip That's just that literally me spitballing. Off The top in my head. I'm looking at that as a possibility I get what I'm talking about here. Is the this this whole this whole the whole the whole chapter eleven. Eleven of Leviticus is about clean and unclean food. What you're allowed to eat what you're not allowed to eat and it could just list them? Don't eat all this stuff list. All this stuff right. These don't eat these but it goes a step further in it classifies things in certain ways and by the way this leviticus eleven is the same place where you're gonNA find that. The rabbits chew their cud. It's dividing animals up by saying that you can eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that choose cut that she was cut. So they're they're saying you can eat the rabbit in certain circumstances and they're saying that you can't eat this type of animal if it's not this here are birds here. The hear the birds you can eat unclean birds that you should stay away from the whole point here is that the Bible is scientifically wrong in its classification Asian of rabbits chewing cod and birds being a bats being birds and look scientists. Get stuff wrong. But then they go back and correct it. They make improvements. They will make a hypothesis. They'll test it and go. I was wrong about my hypothesis. Here's here's the here's the reality of it in seventeen years later somebody else comes along and goes actually. Your high politics was correct. You messed up in your experiment because I just did it again. I corrected Jim. Steak and I got the The hypothesis you put forth cool. That's why we update things up updates books and professors Go back to school or or get recertified or Stay up to date in research in order to teach new things in their in their classes. This is why Education is ongoing because we're constantly finding new information but this two thousand year old book that tells us that bats or birds and the rabbits chew. They're caught in a donkey. A man had a conversation in that. The Sun froze in the sky for several hours. At a time. These are things that there is a firmament firmament above us. That's a hard firm dome that is built above us. That we know is not there. These things that there's waters above above the heavens look. It's wrong on science after science exercise after science. It's clearly wrong on topic after topic. Make dealing with science so for you to hold up the Bible and go. I'M GONNA take this book versus all of the information we have in actual science about evolution. I go dude. You're not being fair right off the jump if you're giving the Bible credibility as a science book and you're you're putting it. It's not even close to the same weight class. I mean you're asking. You know a super heavyweight to fight an amateur featherweight. It doesn't make any sense right not even close to the same category so that that's my challenge for you right now is. Why do you hold the Bible in such high regard as as it pertains to science when clearly? It is blatantly wrong on so many scientific assertions though I don't I don't think like I said there's a lot of examples that you can give on why you think it's wrong scientifically but there's a lot of examples I can give on why it's accurate scientifically and that that's where we're going to go ahead. Most of all look like how how. How would you respond to the one I kind of laid out? It's IT'S A job. Twenty six seven specifically where he says he hangs the earth on nothing by said culturally at a time where it was more so understood understood that it was on the back of some gray animal and that it wasn't just free floating in space at a time. They didn't have telescopes at a time. They they didn't have. Oh No I think misunderstanding i. I have no problem with the Bible being right about some things I'd be very clear. Clear is a matter of fact. I used to butt heads with aren raw. When he was on my show he would? He would grab the mic and he would say everything in the Bible is wrong and I would go no dude he would say everything in. The Bible is immoral that I would push back. I love our into death. Respect what he does. I love his videos videos. I think he's a wonderful person. You know in front of a camera and outside but I- butted heads with him a lot because I think there are plenty of things in the Bible that are correct correct. There are things in the bag of Gita that are correct. There are things in the Koran. That are correct. There are names of locations in stories about places rather the story is true or not the place exists. There are comments about foods and certain plants that grew in certain areas. We can go verify that they said that the certain peoples lived in these places and we can find pottery in those locations. No that they did live there. We can say there was a city here and then we go move some Santa rounding. Oh my God. There's there's places where people used to sleep here so so that is not an issue for me that the Bible is correct about something and by the way. It's a very poetic thing that that one that one particular ones very poetic that it's it's nothing but even if that same Bible also tells us that it's four corners of the earth. It also says that Jesus rose in sight of all men in order for him to raise inside of all men the earth would have to be flat because for everybody to see him at one time he would have to be risen above. Everyone's heads it didn't it didn't factor in actively not not. Actually I'll push back on that one a little bit In this day and age I disagree because if in the last days is when Jesus is going to return we now live in an age of cell phones. Now live in an age of the Internet. Living at in that type of that type of thing in terms of Jesus appearing forum and again I don't know what scripture you're looking at I don't have but In in terms of that that is not at all something that would be out of the ordinary if Jesus were to appear in the sky tomorrow and it were caught on camera right everyone in the world would know about it and it would all be because of this one little handheld device that we have in our hands call the cellphone and because of the Internet and because of how media publicizes things So fast across the world By understanding was that he was passed hints that he ascended in sight of all men. I'd have to find it. I thought it was axed. I'm not sure. So that's why we're GONNA make this up we go. Yeah that's right. That's kind of a stretch though to talk about digital technology. I mean come on what what I'm getting at here is that I have no problem with the Bible. We'll be right about something if it says that there's a city location or the IT talks about the location of Jerusalem and we go find it there or whatever or Nazareth. Ah Okay let's that's fine. I don't think everything I don't even like hold on. It's not the thing go ahead. I don't think everything in the Bible is wrong. But that's not the issue when you try to prop the Bible up up as a formidable opponent against modern observable repeatable testable falsifiable science and empirical evidence. The two are in nowhere near the same weight class class. And if you're pointing to a verse that says God hung the Earth on nothing. I mean you really grasping at straws here. But that's that is not that's a that's a drop in the bucket. The Bible happened to get something right and you know I mean it's it doesn't make much sense to hold that up as evidence against the mountain of scientific evidence that we have in the modern day world right and again. I need you to tell me why you hold because look if you want to just say you're right David. The Bible's not I don't hold it up. It shouldn't be compared equally with modern day science. I'll move on but I don't WanNa entering this discussion pretending that the two are equal. I believe they are. I believe everything. known scientifically can be rationalized biblically. Okay what we just talked about one so that doesn't make any sense John. Bats are not birds the Bible says has the bats are birds. How can your statement be true like well like we said before? There are a lot of cultural thing that we we know during those times and our culture doesn't matter sorry John The culture doesn't matter there's a there's an incorrect scientific statement that classifies flying rodents as birds. That's wrong because it's listing medical. Its listing out medical dangers. The reason they're cleaning 'cause they will actually cost crock crossed one. If you eat. That doesn't matter. They are not good for you. It doesn't matter if the if like I said it in what I said if the Israelite saw the bats as a bird just because it flew like a bird and it looked like a bird and that is how they classified it as a bird. Founder says he he includes back into the the the bird family just so they understand it it is not to be eaten. No no he could say here the rodents. You don't eat as well don't eat. Rats don't eat squirrels in by the way. Donate to flying. Rodents the BAT. There's no way I'm accepting that as plausible. The Bible is flat out scientifically wrong about this and I you can try to stretch aged. But there's there's really no way they're going to make this work. And what about the firmament but what I what I would all all milly what I'd have to do is I'd have to look at it beyond a surface level and I'd have to actually do me a favor making no make a note and we'll go off your notes on the next show in. We'll go down each one of my challenges and we'll see what you come up with. I don't want to pressure you wanted to Earth. Rabbits Chew Cud. Yeah as what I have is okay. I've Read I've read the Chew Cud when before they go they kind of stretch. What could means to try to make it? Make sense in that time. And I'm not satisfied with it. Let's move onto the firmament the firmament is said to be this solid solid dome or kind of a roof encapsulating the world and that's what the actual word meaning meant. And as a matter of fact I got into this deep discussion with Frank Zindler specifically about the fireman. When I was writing my book and he was talking about the original language? And that that word firmament actually meant a firm hard surface that you could go bang with a hammer And it's it's in Genesis. One one six through eight and it's clearly like we can shoot a satellite. We can shoot rockets. We Fly through the heavens on a regular basis. What does it mean? It's clearly wrong that we are encapsulated by some sort of solid dome. It's just wrong. How do you reconcile reconcile that one? Well again that's something I'm GonNa have to look at specifically to give a genuine answer but where I'm looking right now is actually in I'm looking in genesis seven because I'm I'm thinking that that in that somewhere talks about It talks about that firmament and it talks about it when the flood happened everything breaking the open and I. I don't have the exact scripture right in front of okay again. I have to be one. I look into John. I'll tell you I had no plan on what I was GonNa Talk to you about and we were GonNa talk about evolution even asked me before. I don't know what we'll we'll figure it out on the music starts. That's that's how we do our shows but the reality is whatever you start off to show saying. I am not open to the Bible being wrong about something everything can be justified with within within the within the biblical context or Biblical context. And then you say that you put science on equal footing with the Bible. You kinda stopped me in my tracks and I gotta go hold on the Bible Dude. The the Bible's nowhere near scientifically correct enough to even be presented at a seventh grade. Science Fair I mean it's wrong about so much there's no way it can compete in a world where we have the technology to to to sin things too literal Mars. That's digging up soil in Mars in analyzing it and the telling us what it's made of and communicating with robots on Mars. That were moving. I mean we are so far advanced man. The Bible able thinks that the Bible that the moon is alight. It's not light it's not. It's not a source of illumination. It is a reflection of the sun on science knows that the Bible was wrong about it. There are just so many things that the Bible is wrong about that I I can't I don't know man. Am I what I what I what I'd like to do. I think it would be a really fun episode at some point in the future to You bring all of you bring all of your things that you think. The Bible is scientifically incorrect about and I could bring all the things that I think. The Bible scientifically correct about and not just assed things that like finding cities that existed but things that they couldn't have known at that time period which there are a ton of them and that that's where you can also enter into To dealing with prophecy and stuff like that. But I'm fine with the noting. Yeah I'm fine with that. I'm fine fine with that. But here's the thing though I I'm I'm good with the green disagree for right now. I think it'd be really fun to have that type of soda and we can text about it and for for sure for sure. But here's here's the thing I want to be very clear about. I've said it before but I wanna make sure you really. You really get what I'm saying here you tell you could list fifty do things that the Bible is correct about in science and then I can go. Yeah but it also so said that the sun rises and sets instead of the earth rotating and also says the moon is alight. It says rabbits chew their cod. It says bats or birds it said a donkey and a man had a conversation and said the son frozen the sky for several hours now the dog and the man having conversation and I actually believe that's a different topic. We'll get to that in a minute All that stuff. I'M GONNA say dude even if you find several things that that the Bible got right right scientifically the fact that it's so blatantly wrong on very basic things that school children no. I'm sorry that's going to discount you from being quote unquote equal to anything in real science. I don't unless SUV. Yeah go ahead unless you completely classify all these mistakes as human error and I. I mean that's a K.. Human error I even then. You can't classify science but if you make it all metaphor you may. It's going to take ridiculous. Amounts of mental gymnastics to try to explain away all of the scientific errors in the Bible and tried to put on par with empirical evidence that we know for sure. I mean you're talking about out. People who have built rockets flown human beings to a moon landed them and brought them back sit robots to Mars and uncured thousands of diseases in. You're going yet but this book that says that bats or birds is equal to the knowledge. We have in science. That's just that's a pretty far stretch. I mean in your mind. You're looking at it from the perspective of you know all the things that you think are scientifically weekly Inaccurate I can only look at the ones you show me as of right now. So that's why said we'd probably have to have this conversation at a later time and you need to bring bring your arsenal and We can talk about it prior to the show so I think it may be a good idea. I think maybe a good idea to just send you one at the time and you just go hash that one thing out and then we get back to it and I'm fine with this. I mean you you do that and you can send it. You can post it on the Patriots or whatever you WanNa do like if you permission to post our tax so all right cool so I'm so with all that said what. What would it take for you to say that that accept evolution and acknowledged that the Bible is wrong? That you've said you're not open to it but I mean I think you are to some degree. What what would you have to find for you to completely shift gears? Here's your not necessarily become an atheist but back off of the are you asking. What percentage David? I'm not I'm not L. presented. I'm just saying what would it take. What seems really familiar? Well I would like to learn what bar because if your bar is you know outrageous and that means you're not really open to conversation so that's the reason for asking that is where where in a realistic world. What would you have to see because you could tell me right now? David what what would it take for you. God comes down right in front of me and that necessarily might not be the case. I mean if I actually thought I was seeing God right in front of me. I would assume I was hallucinating. I would I would have to check my own reality. I would have to think of my dreaming. It wouldn't be an immediate whatever EM- plus there are lots of illusionists in lots of illusions Asians pranks and you just never know what's going on. So I would have to be very specific about what it would take so I wanNA know from you. What what would it take for you to accept evolution evolution and say okay I believe in God and I believe God started the prospects of evolution but the Bible is wrong about creation? What would that take nick? So that actually kind of Interesting question that I was asking right before we got on the phone. But the thing I would have C- I mean in terms in terms and become a becoming someone who follows theistic evolution. I mean I'm open to I am open to scientific evidence. Let me just stay. Is that right off the Bat I am open to. I'm not saying scientists perfect. I've seen multiple occasions where science CORRECTS itself up and we say that's a good thing right that they're that they're willing to to make adjustments and follow the evidence and so We we kind of had a little bit of a conversation about that. Whole idea is when I was talking about the your remember the conversation we were? We were texting about the The vestigial whale pelvis. Yes right so you have these ideas that are Like for example to the listener knows what I'm talking about the whale pelvis the the bone that A lot of science books a lot of text books books that are in our school system. They they say that that bone is completely digital and it is a remnant of evolutionary process. And then you have science coming out now all that actually says and this is actually the Smithsonian I sent you the article two Smithsonian says wait a second. This isn't vestigial but you have kids who are in school sitting learning learning from teacher that this bone inside. The whale is a remnant of a leg bone when and that it's completely useless and then you have new science that comes out and says it's not the schedule it's actually very significant in will reproduction. And so which. which evidence do you follow? But but No I'm open to scientific evidence. I'm open to look at it. I'm open to read it I I. I'm open to believe it but it it's all I don't know where that journey is going to take me ultimately it's it's it's a journey for a reason it's a journey. I'm on that I'm willing to look into these things but whether I totally agree with theistic evolution and I. I guess that would be my kind of counter question for you is so what if ever Lucien is right. So what if The Earth is billions of years old. So what if all all of this why do you still. Why do you still discount guard? I guess wait. What would be my question? Connect those two questions together. I said even if evolution is completely right even if the world old is billions of years old why do you have to take God out of the equation. Why can't he still not be a possibility? Why does it have have to be Agnostic Atheism or eight years all way just because science points to a process that God could've used you okay A couple of things are on the whale thing real quick the Smithsonian Website that you sent me in the in the subtitle. The headline it says hips. Don't lie well. Pelvic pelvic bones are not vestigial but instead evolved to help the marine mammals maneuver better during sex but then in the article it says it may have evolved for that reason so so for one thing. I don't know that I haven't seen any peer reviewed Science papers published on this. I haven't I didn't dive into it to confirm fact check this Smithsonian which is pretty credible but They say that Eh. If you read the actual article it'll say they think that this may have happened. And it may be this and it may have helped the maneuver during sex but it also so is possible. They don't say this but keep this in mind. It's possible that they were vestigial and are now being used for a different purpose and it may also be possible. That science was wrong about it. Being vigilant in fact maybe it did evolve on its own. It's okay with me. That doesn't discount the overall mountain of evidence. It just doesn't these are. These are minor things that if it is wrong. That is being corrected. And that's that's what I love about science. That's what most scientists do love about. It is that it can be corrected. The same is not not true with your Bible if your Bible is wrong about something you can't go updated. You have to stretch and do gymnastics to try your best us to make it make sense and take notes and go back later and come back with the story and you know look into what other apologists have said about it. And that's why I think think this show has been so effective at deconverting. People is people. Listen to the answers. Given by Christian apologists have very basic questions. And I let I let the answer come back. It's never good enough because you can't go back and update your book. So I think the fact that this is the Smithsonian Sonian is saying this may be of mistake this may have been wrong and they're correcting. It is actually proof that science stays up to date with truth and the Bible can't keep up because nobody's willing to go back and update the Bible in every time somebody tries to book of Mormon Jehovah's Witnesses they get called a Colt in pushed aside. So let me just start with that. I think that this could be wrong. It could be official. It still could be affected for another purpose. This is not in my opinion a mark against evolution that we should stop teaching that this is vestigial digital schools. All of a sudden I think more research needs to be done and we may never know and maybe they teach both maybe they say this could be vestigial for years. Scientists thought it was and now the whales are using it. Are they re using something that was vestigial or was it never vigil in the first place. What do you think kids? That's the proper way to deal with this. But it doesn't mean that that we're corrupting young minds. Indoctrinating them if we teach them that it spits digital it still could be this is one Smithsonian article and I see that it's got some citations and we they dig through and click around. It doesn't really change anything about the overall scope of evolution to answer your question but why reject garden were you worded it. I will say that you called me an agnostic atheist and I've called myself that which means means technically technically a being you that you would probably refer to as God could be part of the solution highly unlikely but your God the Bible God. There's no way not if evolution is true not if the Bible is true because the two are completely contradictory For the reasons I said earlier. The basic scientific errors in the Bible lead me to believe that the Bible doesn't hold a lot of credibility when it comes to speaking on science and Truth and if the book is wrong about bats being birds and rabbits chewing their cud and the sun stopping in the middle of the sky in the Red Sea partying. The I mean things that are knowingly. Impossible then I'm not really going to believe it when it tells me something. Extraordinary like this dead person came back to live and walked across cross water. I mean that's already an unbelievable story but when it's brought in from something but has been clearly wrong multiple times on basic things that fourth graders. No you're really pushing it to give me to believe an extraordinary claim from something that can't get basic scientific facts right. If it was right about everything else it would still be hard to believe that this the Jewish guy died and then came back to life and then ascended upward into heaven. I still have a million more questions. Where did he go to disintegrate? Is Heaven another planet if he you would have Gopro on what would we have seen where where did he go. What does it mean? He ascended to heaven. There's nothing up there. It's black space. What are you talking about but what if it was right about everything else? It would still be hard to believe but you would have a lot more credibility in your book but the fact that it's wrong and wrong and wrong about so much. It's really hard to trust that when it says to believe in God and whenever it says God God will keep you from all harm in Psalms one twenty-one seven and then we see people dying of cancer and being killed in wars and stabbing each other is ridiculous wars and fights and explosions and tornadoes and hurricanes and earthquakes and fires. And I'm going. God said he would keep us from all harm and he's clearly I'm not That's another reason to not believe. And it's not necessarily a rejection of your specific God God as it is when we see the natural processes of how these things operate he becomes irrelevant. John we we we don't there's no need to prop up a being once you pull the curtain back in the land of Oz and you see the guy pulling sticks and he says pay no attention engine to the man behind the curtain. We can't unsee him right once you see him. There is no longer a reason to believe in Oz as a a spiritual figure. It's all a facade. Pay No attention to the man behind the curtain. So that's really my argument for that. John is that once we see how it works six and we see species and we can watch it happen in real time with guppies which will get into in a moment and when you see the natural changing of habitat and you see tornadoes and hurricanes. And there's no reason to invoke God or magic whenever ever you see the weather causing things you excuse me you see the introduction of predators into an environment. Changing the way pray operates operates. Even the color of their scales of the color of their skin can change based on these things so I just don't see a reason to invoke God because adding gone to those equations it just GonNa add thousands of more questions. It doesn't give us answers. Well I mean you you you you went over a lot of information there but the the thing that signs still is not answering we talked a little bit about this in the text messaging as well is the start at all biogenesis right this this idea that life comes from non life and consciousness. Business comes from something that is non conscious That is where I would. I would say you definitely Regardless of what natural processes you believe in regardless regardless of evolution is true regardless if all of these things you mentioned you still L. Somehow have to answer the question and I don't believe it will ever ever find a scientific answer is where or did life come from not trying to Straw man and I'm not trying to change the subject. I'm looking at this from the perspective of we say all this happens and we say all of this is observable servicable and and we have this evidence we have this fax and so on so forth but looking at the very start of what you're calling fact and the very start. This is the biggest issue for me. Is this idea that life comes from something. Non Living and consciousness comes from something non conscious. And then you get into. That's where you get into the moral argument. That's where you get into the issue of at what point At what point did we call it. Empathy Chrissy at what point when we look at Jaguar tackling antelope. We don't call that murder right and we we. We understand that but at one point in the evolutionary development element when when we got to a point we said okay. Now this is wrong were animals and now rape is wrong and now murderers wrong and now And like I said. ABS Comeback to that is just empty when when we began to empathize with other human being but empathy is not grounds for morality based off this. This John Dacia Line of evolution. Let me address take time here. Yeah Dr had definitely I definitely want to get into empathy because I definitely definitely think that's an evidence of evolution. I mean take a take a bone away from a dog. You're gonNA tell he he's going to react in a way that he believes he's being treated unfairly. Have you ever seen the capuchin monkeys on the grapes. The fairness experiment. I'm going to send it to your quick and we're GonNa Watch it together. It's it is it is actually if you want to search it up but I'm all right cool so just type in the capuchin monkey Fairness experiment are the heck. Do you spell capuchin. C U C H. I N Capuchin K. C.. Yes H. I.. Yes it's just capital and then Chin monkey fairness experiment. Ah Yes now. Don't click the video yet. There's one that's there's one that's We can watch the whole. It's watch the one that's two minutes and forty four seconds but don't don't click it yet. Okay forty four seconds. Yeah that's what I have. What do you have? I see one that Oh okay I see. There's another another one. That's two fifty four equal pay for monkeys. Have you seen that one. It's the same one because that guy in the sweater is the one who's in charge of the experiment. Okay okay do you see the one that says equal pay for monkeys right two minutes fifty four seconds. We're going to watch that but don't click it yet before we watch this. I Want I. I want to address what you said about. What you said was biogenesis now? biogenesis is and I'm going to be very clear for the listener. biogenesis this is getting life from life. biogenesis is what we refer to in scientific conversations about about the theory that life came from inorganic matter and how that could have happened. And I I really really in. This is whenever people patriotic and see our Our conversations you're going to see a moment where you asked me about this and I just say let's talk about it later. Because and the reason for that is because it's a distraction. It's it's almost a gotcha moment for evolution and it's not anything evolution ever pretended to prove so asking me in an evolutionary conversation to provide evidence of what started it all is no no. I'm not I'm not asking for evidence of what started it. All the question that you asked me was phased around. Why would we? You still need God if I say all of the stuff they well that is so that that's where I was inserting. That is the fact that life from non life so there are a lot of things going on in that type of conversation. It's known as what's what's called the God of the gaps arguments that if the Christian can't answer I answer it. We Fill in God in the gap and go. God did it. Because we don't know the answer and that's just intellectually dishonest to me. I think that not knowing is okay and looking to become telling you there are tons of scientists who are getting really close to showing that we can do it and this is not something that is as far off uterus. We are on the cusp of showing how maybe with the right set of chemicals and maybe a lightning strike or heat heat or something that something may be possible to be some sort of bacteria or fungus that could start to grow and become life. And it's coming. They're getting close and I don't know the answer to it I can't tell you. Scientists haven't figured doubt exactly how it is that is not the end but that is not evidence for God in the slightest. It's it's just not This to me is almost like you know we're at a murder trial and I'm the prosecutor and I'm going and you're the you're the defense attorney and I'm going John Your client left blood on the scene. His DNA is all over the knife. The knife that we found at his apartment is the same knife used on the scene. And I've got tons and tons of evidence. You're lacking an alibi for where your client was that night and I've got this is guy dead to rights. He's guilty. He did this in you. Stand up and go look. He made sandwiches for his daughter. He he bought his mother Mother's Day presence. He Changed Oil for his neighbor. That doesn't sound like a murderer to me. That's kind of our discussion discussion right now. And people are GonNA think we're talking past one another but in reality I'm going. There is flat out evidence that we have solid evidence of evolution. And the things that you're pointing to are really about evolution right so the reason I want to have a biogenesis genesis as a conversation at a different time. Christians may be listening and going yeah. You can't answer that question. That's why I don't WanNa talk about it. Well no I don't think first of all either of us are qualified to talk about it. It's a very deep dive area of science. I would like to get a specialist on and maybe I can have John on and with a specialist and we can question him together him or her together and It's just not time for that conversation Asian because they're baby steps within this conversation and John is moving toward accepting the scientific evidence of evolution. So I want want to continue on with evolution once. He fully accepts the facts of evolution. Then we can get into how interesting it is and how close we are. How far back can we go is willing to go back to just humanoid evolution? is He willing to go all the way back into some sort of microbial evolution evolution Does he is. He going to differentiate or try to distinct between macro and micro evolution. These are all parts of the balloon. Conversation biogenesis is a separate Britt Science. It is not I get that it was the start of you. Know the the origin of species evolution. I get it but it's not. It's not a part of the same debate because I don't know scientists don't know and not knowing is not evidence against evolution because I promise you if we did find a way to get life from non life. Ninety Ninety. Five percent of the Christians in America would stay Christians and they would say yeah. Yeah well you you can. You can believe that you came from microbes and bacteria. But I'm not God made me. It's not going to change much right so let's let's dive into evolution. And then once you accept that will move into a biogenesis awesome. I'll have a specialist on the show. Okay okay so to two minutes fifty. Four seconds I'm GONNA play it. Play Yours on commute. Because I'm going to play this for the listener is well. It's equal pay for monkeys here. We go we did is we. Put Two capuchin monkeys side by side and if you give both of them cucumber for the task. The two monkey side-by-side perfectly willing to do this twenty five times in a row. You give them grapes as a far better food Then you create inequity between them so she gives a rock to us. That's the task and we give her a piece of cucumber and she eats it the other one needs to give a rock to us. And that's what she does she gets a grape and the other one sees that too the other ones saw saw the great gets again cucumber deposit. I'M GONNA pause it by the juicy that John My Internet fighting me. Oh I am. Oh No yeah I appearing era the end of the video but I'm only at like fifteen seconds. Oh okay okay. I'll let you finish this so as you're as you're watching it I'm gonNA explain what's happening so so they give one monkey Th they have to do a task which is give them a rock. And if they give the researcher a rock the researcher gives her acute number happens again on the other side but the other monkey a great which is considered a better treat. The other muggy does the task again and gets a cucumber again and throws throws the cucumber back at the researcher. It's leak shoved up your posit posit when it gets to the part where the monkey throws the cucumber yet. I just saw okay all right now Boston so so clearly the monkey was okay with the cucumber in the beginning they ate the cucumber. Just just fine but but whatever the monkey saw that the other monkey was rewarded with a better treat. They knew that they weren't being treated unfairly now. But this is A. This is where my mind went as soon as you said. Empathy stealing fairness fairness and I'm guessing that as a Christian. Your idea is at some point. All these animals do things and it's not about morals or right and wrong. It's just about instincts and behavior but humans know the difference between right or wrong because God instilled that in us. And I'm telling you this shows shows I believe that monkeys do have a sense of fairness right and wrong and they know that it's not right. If there there were no grapes there. Those monkeys would be doing these tasks no problem but the fact that one monkey got paid better than another monkey that pissed I some monkey off. And they do feel that they've been slighted they do feel they've been treated unfairly and it's it's some. I'm very basic form of ethical dilemma. This is not right. I did this task for you. You gave him more stuff than you gave me me. And then not just refusing to eat the cucumber literally sticking his arm out of the tube and throwing it back at the researcher. That's hilarious delirious. But don't you think that has an element of conditioning to it. As well as the these are these are these are monkeys that I would assume live in this type of research facility. That they received these types of treats and they can recognize. They can recognize when they're being treated unfairly based off the conditioning conditioning. How long they'd been there elements like that of course so you take two monkeys out of the wild and you do the same experiment? I would be interested in seeing back because in this like I said you have more so For lack of better terminology if circus monkeys monkeys that know what what expected of them and knows what they get in return so it's a form of conditioning. Where then you take two monkeys out in the wild you have that same reaction? That's what I would be curious about. well. That's the point and the they're doing it in this controlled environment for that reason. Not that's not That's not instinctual behavior. But that's trained behavior in terms of video. Well no no no no. It's not trained. It's not they're not trained to throw the cucumber on cue. This is a scientific experiment in which okay they are they. They are given task and they're given treats to perform tasks and if the researcher only had cucumbers they're and was only giving cucumbers to each one. It wouldn't be a problem. It's the fact that he took a great or that. The the researcher sure I believe I believe it's a woman she. She took a A grape and handed it to the other monkey and then the other monkey was was refusing being to eat the cucumber so it it's not conditioning to the point of training them to do it. It's more so they know that grapes are better her and they don't WanNa be treated unfairly and I think that's the point out and I'll tell you and I will tell you I will tell you though this does happen in the wild it happens with chimpanzees who were even closer to humans in evolution chimpanzees if if a chimp is caught stealing food or taking something from someone because they use tools as you know they use though use a rock rock to break open something and they find their favorite rock in. They used that same rock over and over to break things open. It would be like having a hammer or a knife they they wedge orrock down in between stuff and crack it open. I mean they use tools. They use long sticks to put down into trees to get ants out. pull the stick out. It's got aunts all over it and then they suck the ants off like a like a lollipop. They use tools all the time. If a chimp walks over takes that stick out of another chimp's hand runaway or takes the rock a fight breaks out that champ will be thrown out of the truth and have to live on its own because that type of behavior is not tolerated. They cheat on their spouses. They mate with with one chip or or the main chip may mate with multiple women as as sort of a Harem multiple female chimps. And then these other male chimps will sneak off off into the woods with one of the females in they will mate and they do it looking around because they don't want to get caught. There is a sense of sneaky. Sneaky sleekness there is a sense of morality. There's a sense of. I'm doing something wrong. I'm going to get hit. I'm GONNA get hurt. He's going to attack us if he sees US doing this right. It's also a sense sense of if you're doing something wrong you're getting booted out. You're getting kicked out of the group because what you're doing is not good for our overall society so you're not allowed to participate you don't get the protections that come with living in a group if you can't behave properly if we're going to run around taking the rocks and taking the sticks away from people you don't belong in the group and that in a sense is a sense of very basic primate ethics so. That would be an interesting question. Why is adultery wrong in terms of them sneaking off with another another monkeys partner? Well I think it's the same reason. Why why most humans believe it's wrong I think it's about From a scientific diffic- perspective You WanNa pass down your jeans and so if you were mating with a female and you see another male mating that female he's he's implanting his sperm inside of her to create his is babies instead of yours and We have a very strong desire to pass down genetic information and so if if you come along and try to mate eight with one of my females. Maybe your seat is going to connect instead of mine and I'M GONNA be raising your baby instead of my own. I mean zebras have the same. Everything's zebras male. Zebras will attack of seen it. There's there's footage of this happening. A male zebra running up to a female. Oh who has God I don't know the name of a baby zebra slipping my aunt. I don't remember I'm a little zebra And he'll he grabs it by the head. Insert shaking it to break its neck and kill it. Because if he kills her baby eh she goes back into heat so he he wants to pass down his genetic information and he doesn't want this young to grow grow up and be competition so he kills it terrible right but it's all in this desire. It's all in this desire to pass down genetic information so was humans. It's a little more advanced but the primal instinct is still there that that basic idea of. I don't want you mating with anyone else because I want our genetic information to be what we pass on not that other dude adults really so is adultery adultery. Morally wrong okay. So you're asking my personal opinion. I think this is a subjective thing. I think there are some ethics that our objective I think there are objective moral truths and we can get into that if we were having a discussion about morality but I think this is subjective. I think if adultery is wrong it is wrong because you're lying and being dishonest with your partner but if your partner says to you Yeah I don't mind you having sex with other people and I'll have sex with other people in will be open but we'll have a live together. There's nothing morally wrong about that because both people have decided needed to share a life together both knowing that the others are are open now that tends to come with what's called negotiations or agreements. Were they say yes but you know we will always. We'll always use protection when we do something outside out of a relationship and then he goes off and doesn't use use protection that's wrong and I think that's wrong because you're breaking agreement you're breaking a promise if the agreements not there to do that and you don't then it's not that's not the case so for me it comes down to integrity and honesty now if you get married and you stand there and promised to be monogamous and promise your partner that you're going to be faithful bowl and then you go off and have sex with somebody else. I do believe that's wrong but not because of the sex necessarily. It's because you are lying to someone making them. I believe you someone that you're not and the going behind their back and doing things that you you promised you wouldn't do so it becomes wrong because of the dishonesty. Not because sex with multiple people is inherently bad if everyone's on the same page and they all agree or if a husband and wife want to have another woman join them in all three of them have sex all adults and if they all consent it's fine. It's about the dishonesty I think. When it comes to right or wrong of adultery so while we were talking about that it made me think of a talk I saw today? Oh my Gosh David. So my Gosh Okay were you back on your own page. Oh my gosh that one so at scrolling view Tick Tock I ran into just one of those things. That's enough Internet for the day. You know what I'm saying frazier. There's a trend going on talk right now and if you get on it at all you'll probably see it pretty quick and you turn going on right now. Where a girl found out that testicles have taste buds? So you literally have these guys on tip talk you obviously show anything can take docket is pretty. PJ AJ but You literally guys on talks taking food out of their refrigerator and putting a camera and then dipping themselves in there and then you see them like this look of amazement and I. It's it's you can google it. I guess testicles have taste buds. I don't know why I was thinking. I I guess I was thinking about during the adultery side of things but fun fun fact You know where I'm going going with Adam. Sorry I mean we got you asked me about adultery. And then you've got right into testicles having taste buds. I don't know where your mind is at right now. We'll have to deal with that later. This confound factual need to Google yourself to believe from buzzfeed number one is that human testicles have taste buds in them not only that but but there are taste receptors all over your body including the stomach the lungs and gut and scientists are still studying. Why they're there got this one guy out of his bridge and you see in the video he just like you do not bag for and he then screams? I can't taste it but I can feel it in I I I just hope we're not putting stuff back in the fridge. That's what I'm hoping hoping I totally agree with you that that is. I'm sorry it's all right. I don't even remember what we needed a break. It's okay here's the thing here's the thing I want to go into now are because I wonder if you have any questions for me as far as evolution goes. I'm not a specialist on it but I've had specialists on over the years and I've learned a lot a lot and I can. I can kind of help direct or push things in one way or another one thing that I will reveal that you asked me. overtaxed is I think I think it was the last thing where we kind of stopped. How'd you put it? You said I want you to name a specific topic. Would you say something about the. Oh here it is. What is your most compelling argument for naturalistic evolution solution with a specific example? I lost on that one because I wanted to kind of trying to evolution. Such broad broad subject like my mind is being torn in twenty different directions Because you have to understand. I was home schooled. I homeschool to with Christian curriculum so I don't even know basic evolution like this and this is a complete Brand new journey for me in terms of looking at it as a possibility and so I'm I'm starting from scratch and that's kind of where I'm at so if anyone if any the listeners are Wondering man this guy doesn't know anything about evolution. You would be core rack. I don't and I'm learning and I'm excited to learn. It's it's it's a very interesting subject and I'm looking at Real scientists on atheist side of the spectrum and younger creationist and older with creationist and S.. And everything in between so the man I really appreciate you saying that and I as soon as you as soon as I read your question one thing popped into my head my immediate answer but I thought let me let me think about it because as any atheist listening knows when a Christian then asks a question like that you're you're that's a real opportunity to have a real conversation about fax blacks and I didn't want to blow it. I didn't WanNA screw that up and give you something that you could immediately shoot down or say all that silly row. That doesn't prove this so I was like this is a a real opportunity to give him my most solid example of evolution. Because you didn't ask for an argument you said The question is what is your most compelling argument you said what is your most compelling argument for naturalistic evolution with a specific example. What area of science that makes evolution undeniable to you? If you could only pick one example what would you choose and I. I've thought about it for several days. I mean that was quite a while ago and I'm sticking with my original answer. I think it's really solid Richard Dawkins in his book. The greatest show on Earth cited specific example from John Engler and when I had the the first opportunity I had to sit with with Richard in and talking so not this most recent episode but the one before that where I had Richard on. I told him about this. I told him this was one of the most impactful moments of the book for me. And I've I've now talked about this in my conversation with Christian. I don't know that I've ever got into it on. Air May have but simply put. It's an and by the way if you look John Engler if you look into this experiment and You'll find more information than than than Dawkins covers it his book. But here's the here's the gist of it. Okay here's the simple part. Keep in mind find that guppies have a much shorter life span than humans okay So with animals like this that have shorter lifespans. We can watch cycles of life Over weeks and months that would be years or hundreds of years to humans right. You see what I'm saying yes okay so guppies are good. He's a good example because of that. Here's I just found something online that I actually gonna read instead of explaining it and if I feel like it's not doing a good job I'll chiming because I haven't read this yet but Here we go. John and Laura University of California has conducted experiments with the Guppies of Trinidad that clearly show selection action at work. Here's the scenario female guppies prefer colorful males for mating purposes. Now stop there. How do they they know that? You can observe it. You can put Colorful males and Dole males in a tank or pond and dump a bunch of females Dell's in and see what happens the colorful males were mating more often and creating more offspring which were making more colorful males overall okay. here's the thing. Predatory fish also prefer colorful males but for a less complimentary purpose. It says here a source of food. That's easy to spot. Some portions of of the streams were guppies live have fewer predators than others in the locations where there were fewer predators. The males had more colors. There's not surprisingly males in locations where there are far. More predators tend to be less colorful when Dr Engler are transferred predatory fish into the regions that had brightly colored male guppies selection rapidly Acted to produce a population of duller males this demonstrates that persistent with variation with population provides the raw material for rapid rapid resolution when environmental conditions change. So let's say you look at guppies and go out guppies look a certain way. They're all very bright and we've got a thousand bright guppies and a few Dole ones you for the most part guppies a really bright. Why is that? I think you would acknowledge even in your position today that bright males get more meeting then doll meals because it's more impressive. It's more flashy so females start in fine fine. You know are attracted to the brighter males and that passes on genes of other brighter. Children Gordon Right. So you end up with a pond full of bright males but then when you put predators into that situation you find that the predators are looking for flashy stuff to eat so who's surviving. The details are swimming past the predators and not being eaten so over time the flashy male start being eaten her and the Dole males get more mating so over time I am. You have females now mating more often with Dole males instead of bright meals because their genetic information is more likely to be passed on so by watching cycles of guppy evolution. You can see natural selection having a change in how guppies look within a specific area because it's about adapting to one's environment in this is a perfect example of evolution. Not being a straight line. It's not like we're you're done. Humans evolved from apes our book. We're finished or were still apes but where we evolved through monkeys and everything else and now we got to the apex and we're the top. No we're we're we're not. We're constantly adapting to a changing environment and I think vis example with John Engler is undeniable observable proof roof of natural selection at the very least John it it's showing how Introducing predators into an environment environment can change the biological makeup of a fish. Now that's an environment or an An adaption change change that has a direct reflect on the changing of one's DNA. It's changing the way it looks. Maybe slight but it's still having being an impact on it. What do you think I mean? I think that is a a a a experiment based talk of micro evolution where. I don't think there are many Christians at all but say small changes over time can't happen But I don't think that's a very good example of macro evolution because you you're still getting guppies from guppies but Macro evolution says You're you're getting You're getting dinosaurs are birds from dinosaurs. you're getting all of these different different species of animal from a completely separate species. I mean that. That's just my thoughts on that. I I will definitely look into it. I have guppies of Trinidad selection at work and a little thing handsome fish. But you're the But I think that that's a good example of micro evolution but I don't see how that would support macaroni. Dilution species to species. There's actually something I watched. That was pretty interesting where I can't remember the name of scientists Yvan head talk but this is not a Christian whatsoever he's actually a a dinosaur scientists and he goes out and finds his own dinosaur bones and he actually called out a lot of scientists just because they have They say they have intermediate fossils right. Fossils where one change into into another and change to another change to another and you have all these representations of different representations of the same species and what he actually found John was really interesting. Was this this isn't about the guppies but well hold on July. I'm John John. Yeah I'm concerned that we're going to get too far pasture micro macro distinction without me addressing it. So can you hold off on that story and let me address that I owe. We'll let this macro microbe. This is kind of what I'm talking about. Yeah go ahead. There is no difference micro and macro evolution solution. Those terms are not used within evolutionary science. Those are Christian terms us is to try to distinguish changes within a species versus species micro and macaroni. acker of Lucien are not distinguished as different types of evolution within evolutionary biology. What you're calling? What you're calling micro? Evolution is just smaller changes that we can see and then you will say micro and macro evolution that is just changes that take longer A longer period of time An animal becomes a new species when it can no longer mate and create offspring that is viable to continue creating right so if if two Species can mate and have a baby but that baby can't continue to produce other species or their offspring than there there are separate species right. So that's why we have Lions and tigers. Now they can make and they do. You can have a lighter but that lighter is incapable of creating offspring. When when Rachel Nanan Brown was on the show was the as the science rip? I miss her so much She would be great right now in this conversation but we used to thing called. The civic test was what we nicknamed tamed. It and I actually looked up her blog and founded other some missing images. It's very old what she would do. John is we have the person on the show. Scroll through and talk about kinds. Because because answers in Genesis the whole Ken Ham crew. They would always talk about kinds. The cat kind the kind of this other stuff. That's not a real thing. Either kind is not a scientific classification. That is a Ken Ham creationist type classification pretending to be science it's just the biblical classification as well. Right right not scientific. Would you not classify anything. As a kind and science there are multiple different classifications. None one of them are kind there are like I think. That's that's a little bit of an unfair assessment. How so the Bible existed long before scientific terminology took a just because scientific terminology doesn't state different types of animals kinds doesn't mean that Kinds are scientifically accurate. Just because of the terminology not matching up to something thousands of years old that makes sense yes. That's the point on the the Bible predated scientific terminology. And that's all that when you're talking about what kinds of animals that's all were getting into you. We're not talking about anything scientific. We're talking about turn out but we are but we are and what what you just said is exactly right. The Bible it was way before scientific terminology. Scientific terminology is not just words. That were made up how things are able to interbreeding or not. Inter breed is what determines their name and their classification. And what what family. They're a part of okay. So as Rachel depicted in this blog. She says a lion and a tiger are both the same cat kind they are able to inter breed a horse and a donkey are also seen as the same horse kind. As far as Ken Ham in the Bible or concerned they are able to the interbred but a wolf and a Fox or coyote in an African wild dog are all seen as the same dog kind in the Bible and according to Ken Ham but they are not able to enter breed. You can't have a a coyote a fox or a a Fox in a wild title dog or a of a wolf and Fox. They can't make offspring so it. It makes no sense scientifically for for the Bible to classify both a wolf and a Fox as a dog kind because the the evolution has to be so long in between the two so of a Fox and a wolf are can't they can't interbreeding they can't make another species. I mean sorry another another animal. So your point about the Bible being so old that it's before animal classification is exactly my point. That's that's why it can't be a part of this conversation it's not scientific. It can't in other words you can't say no God gave us one type of dog August. Then every dog came from that. That's just not that's just not the way evolution works. That's not anything that we understand evolution to be says that everything came from one dog kind. Those words are even in the the nomenclature of science the word kind isn't used micro micro and macro evolution are not used these changes over time in species yet so so joe just to clarify In terms of kind of the these rebuttals. I've been giving because because I'm studying this. Each rebuttal is not necessarily my wholehearted belief. Okay because then I would say I'm not being being if I said it was my wholehearted belief that I wouldn't be saying that. I'm not open to theistic evolution right. You're an and I should've clarified at the beginning I should in the beginning. This show is is much less of a debate and much more of an exploration of the two of us together. Because I haven't and I'm sure I've said things incorrectly today. Maybe maybe I'm wrong. Species Asian Yeah. I'm fine with that 'cause but I didn't want this conversation to to go too far off without happening because you're so willing to learn you're so willing to look into this and I think what I'm GonNa do is send you this link even though some images or missing Rachel still going to help us from from beyond Her days on Dogma debate and if she wants to be a part of this conversation be more than happy to reach back out and have her on the show unless does she got a baby now she stays very busy. But I'm GonNa send you this link actually GonNa texting out now. Let's let's talk about something if the exact same subject but could it's a theistic evolution evolution perspective that's evolution. I just got your link so if if ever solution is true and everything is scientifically accurate and everything like that. The Bible's bill does not does not deny that necessarily like I said if you if you're putting it in context because in Genesis one verse twenty four says then God said let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind and it was so god made the beast of the earth after their kind and the Cadillac after their kind and everything that creeps on the ground. After its kind God saw that it was good so in that I found ended extremely interesting. Biblically got it. Starts out that verse with let the Earth Bring forth living creatures from a theistic evolutionary perspective. It's not saying God proofed dogs and cats and cattle and and everything into existence but it actually words it in the way of let the earth bring or which is a an argument four four evolution being true from a biblical perspective. That's a good point. I've actually never heard of. I've never heard that argument before. That's interesting and it said that. Actually in in the way of dealing with meditation as well it actually says Let the earth bring forth Alexey the the problem is the problem. I have with it off the top of my head. If I'm remembering correctly it says it all happens right in though and and that Adam named every animal that was there so it it doesn't. It does kind of seem more happening when you harbor kind if you ever kind i. It's not naming every species of animal in existence. Today it's naming every kind that existed originally back. That is how I take that scripture. It's not like he had to name. Every single animal that exists today in the question more so dry the foundational animals that exist during K.. But hold on now. We have to stop and ask. How long ago was that in your opinion Nyan because if you're a now does this is what I was telling you along time ago? Jonah longtime ago when we first started talking and I brought up the age of the Earth. And you gotta Seattle know about that and I'm like these are these are all Caen said you were worried about me bringing up evolution. These are all connected just like a biogenesis as eventually connected to evolution and and we have to have that conversation at some point the these are all interconnected from a biblical perspective. If you're if you're willing to to save perhaps because you're you're essentially saying that the Bible is okay with some sort of the evolution. I say that it's not really for the most part because specifically about Adam and Eve There have never been just just to hominids that existed there's always been hundreds or thousands in various groups throughout. I can deal with that two hundred fifty thousand dollars human evolution but yeah so okay. This is where the Christians are GonNa Scream at me But this is actually something. I was two or before our debate started. I really was kind of digging into the genesis account. 'cause I knew I knew we go there especially with the topic of conversation action and I had an interesting thought. What is yes and like I said this Christians are GonNa Scream at me? What what if it's simply the pages are out of order in terms of the way we put together the campus? I'm listening okay. Yeah I figured here's would put up. I'm leaning in Manam here. I've never heard this before. Do it. Well neither have I. That's why I found some really for radical stuff here your sound John. Your sounds go they. What's your sound is going wonky on me? I lost you for a minute. Oh can you hear me. Yes I think maybe you have speaker or something. Yeah you've been on speaker speakers hold on Mike And oh no no. You're right. I think you covered up the Mike for a second. You're good okay. All right so I'm looking at it from the perspective. Of what if the way we put the cannon together is in terms of some of the pages could be out of order from the okay they were originally written thousands and thousands of years ago. So I'm looking at it from the perspective of this idea And and this is a Mary. Fresh idea literally. It's only something I thought about two. Oh how long three hours ago Whenever we I originally said we're GONNA start talking but and I'll try to make it grief? What if and this is a big? What if what? If when God created the earth the very first thing he did was create the Garden of Eden next he created Animals for the Garden of Eden any created Adam and he created things. And you have these two people represented as the foundation humans for mankind and then you can actually say that The fall happen. I and eight and three acknowledged evil and all that good stuff and then you actually go over to genesis one instead of moving forward but switching genesis two and three and genesis one to an extent where it goes into the days of creation. And I actually. I'm trying to make this short because I could I can really ramble on this but the possibility of of later on you see where all just read it to make much more sense. So it says. In the beginning God created bans and the earth the earth was formless and emptied art service to God was moving over the surface of the water so one thing that's really impacted me is and the fact that there's water already on the earth before the days of creation ever begin. That was something when was water created that I was starting to ask questions on if genesis one one and one to literally says it's weird. Oh God was moving over the surface the waters when water created as an element As opposed to the rescue things that were created. Because you look at it and you never never see where water was created but you only see were water were separated. Are you following me. Oh yeah that's been an issue for a long time. Okay Okay so you have. You have this idea. But then you go over to genesis two and it says this this is the account of of the heavens and the earth when they were created in the day the Lord God made Earth and Heaven and says this now no Shrub of the field field was yet in the earth and no plans to the field had yet sprouted for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth and there was no man to cultivate bait the ground. Now this presents a problem with genesis one because you where plans were created. Aided I think on day three and man was not created until day six riot yup also by the way the sun had not yet been created and the sun is necessary for plants through photosynthesis. Okay so good. So we have this represented no Shrub of the field is yet in the earth and then it goes down and it says then the Lord God for man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils missiles the breath of life and man became a living being the Lord. God planted a garden toward the East and Eden and there he placed the man man whom he had formed around the Lord. God caused all right. Let right let me let me pause right there. That is the plants. That's the place. Ace where The Bible can't be right if evolution is true because we know that man was not formed that way we know that manny volved from early apes over two hundred fifty thousand years. There are multiple the links. There are multiple fossils to prove this. There's multiple stages as I've sent you the link to talk origins dot Org. You can see the bones of Australopithecus Pithecophaga. Forensics you can see Multiple different stages of of of different beings different different things using using tools. Sort of making progress to where we are today the fact that we share ninety eight point nine percent of our DNA with modern chimpanzees. We can see we're cousins and where we split off millions of years ago We know that we came that. The human beings came through Evolution in fact were still classified as one of the five great apes. From from a from a scientific classification. Human beings are still apes we didn't come from apes we are related to apes through revolution family tree. Not a straight line We didn't turn into humans from monkeys would all distant cousins over a split period of several million years. So that's one huge red flag that the Bible is scientifically wrong man was not just boom created created in his current form out of dirt with God breathing into his nostrils We we came from other other apes like us. And that's that's something I'm studying. I'm studying We've talked about neanderthal. DNA and Stuff of that nature and and the the famous image where it has the the line starting at monkey ending it man. What was it called? It's called something so ugly. It's like the march march of mankind. I don't remember I don't know the name of just see it all the time on t shirts I like it so I it's I I can't remember the name of it but so that's something I'm looking at but In regards to this getting back to kind of where I was going you you have this part. Where the Lord God formed man out of the ground and then put him in the garden of actually says he planted a garden to the east and he's set him and now I started asking myself self the question? What is that's actually what happened? I would have the very first thing that God did was said. No plant on the Earth but in genesis one you have where plans are on this and then man is created but what if these are switched is kind of where my thought process started going. What if God actually created eaten? I put a garden. You've Adam you have eased represented you have have the fall of man and then after the fall of man is when you actually get into genesis one And there's actually there's a scripture in Jeremiah. So the earth was formless void that that is a Hebrew word Toho Babo who and you can actually look at where when you read it in Hebrew and actually says it became formless and void informed. Boy There's like a desolation wilderness. Type deal well well. My question would be. The fall of man doesn't happen until there are multiple people on Earth in Genesis. Two and they're sitting going on and craziness happening and fights and all this other stuff so that that would have to be more than just a few pages out out of order for that to be correct. Well no the ball of man was at with the with the tree of knowledge. Good so this genesis three. Then that's even further three correct. Yeah so then. The net means again. There'd be a lot of things out of order for this to be right now. Just a couple pages John. This is massive. I mean there would be. That means the pool business. I use that. It's it's just something I'm looking at but I feel like we're about to look like that that that serial killer who has all the yarn on his wall in appointing different. I this than this than that. All the attacks in the pictures and I see this being leading into absurdity but I appreciate the way you're thinking I mean it's it's interesting that you're that you're trying to figure it all out this way. I just bailed on Yup. Okay so you you have. Basically the garden of Eden is how I'm I'm separated. You have the separation between the garden of Eden and then the creation of the rest of the earth In Genesis one one in Genesis. One two uh or not wanting sorry in genesis two genesis three you have the creation of Man Adam and Eve represented you have the garden of Eden. You have the trees you have the serpent and you have the fall all right there. Now here is what's interesting in Genesis. One verse two it has those words formless and void and and I wanna read something to you and we're going to go a little further inscription. Okay this is where this interesting to me in the book of Jeremiah. Maya says this the there was only one other time in the entire Bible that those two words `to who Volvo who were or put together one time that's it and it's Jeremiah. Four and I looked on earth and behold it was formless and void into the heavens and they had no like I looked on the mountains and the hold they were quaking and all the hills moved to and fro I looked and behold there was no man all the birds the heavens had fled I looked and behold the fruitful land was a wilderness and all of the cities were pulled down before the Lord and before his fierce anger. This this is what's interesting for thus says the Lord the whole land shall be a desolation yet I will not execute a complete destruction for this the earth. I Sean Warning the heavens above be dark because I've spoken. I have purposed and I will not change my mind nor will I turn from going back to Genesis. One now we see were. Those words are used. The earth was formless and void so the Prophet Jeremiah. He's not having a vision of the future. His most prophets did what he's actually. Witnessing is very possibly the past. He's looking at something that happened. Looking event where the earth became like I setting Hebrew it says became formless and void and darkness was over the surface of the deed. And it's weird moving through the waters so I'm sorry no no I'm following. I got you. So far. Okay so injure injure mind you have that represented where I believe the Prophet Jeremiah. We're seeing a vision of what happened. to the earned after the fall of man whatever we're says the Lord and his fierce anger started asking my question. Okay if he's looking at the earth when it was formless and void so who Volvo who based on genesis one that I have to ask the question what is God angry about what what would make God angry. At a point when the world is formless and void and stuff like that so then you go into the genesis account and you see the fall of man. What are the fall of man is what made got angry? And then he says for this reason the Earth and the heavens will mourn born and that word actually means go into mourning the same way someone would mourn the death like in a funeral or something like that They will put on Sakwa. It would be covered in darkness. Workmates right so for this. The Heavens and the earth will mourn and because I've purpose I'm not change my mind taxation and then later on you get to this point the earth being formless and void bark serves the deep and then you have this whole second account of creation. Should you have were gods have led to be light and there was like got satellite was good separated from darkness. And you have these examples of all of these things being created you see the plants. Now this is the difference. This is the main difference. In between these passages genesis two genesis three deal strictly with the garden of Eden and and it says directly that the rest of the rest of the Earth was just a desolate wilderness. Right but in genesis one. Now you see where God is. There's actually dealing with the entire earth and not does the Garden of Eden. And that's why you get into scripture's where said God called the Dry Land Earth and and the gathering the waters he called Seas and God saw that it was good. And then. Here's this here's those words again. Then God said let the earth sprout vegetation plants yielding seed fruit fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them and it was so so again. This is another representation of possible feast evolution were were. The Earth is bringing these things for and it's not necessarily happening in a twenty four hour day period As I'm sure you've heard like like Hugh Ross talk about right so then what you're saying. Okay no I'm following you and look. This is about baby steps so if this puts you one step closer as as far as the evolution. I'm all for it I don't want to discourage you from it. But my my question would be whenever it talks about the in Genesis one where it does give the day by day account a you know when you now willing to just say poetry and back away and it was just a it was just poetic. Didn't literally mean day by day. I'M SAYING THERE'S A. There's a possibility of it being poetic based off the wording how each part says then God in terms of genesis one directly not talking about Adam Adam and Eve not talking about the Garden of Eden Talking About Surfing but dealing with this account in Genesis Having making having been made sense to the person writing the book of Genesis which a lot of people believe was Moses There's a there's a possibility that this this part is poetic in terms of how these days kind of Came out not as twenty four hour days but as periods of time because because of things like let the earth bring forth that could have been guess what millions of years who knows how long how long it took well bill in creatures say this. We're talked about those again. That could have done. Yeah I think I think it's very easy to to get into the idea that the genesis one his poetry and. I think this is an easy fix for you in your step because it it's genesis one. It's definitely literary okay definitely literary but it's illiterate rece- tack the way it's written. It's actually known as a high style and the high style is one of the artistic devices that that would be used in poetry. So it's used in other things too you know but again it wasn't written. It was not written as a historical account it was not like the the structure structure of the original. Text is not the same as people of that time would say. I walked down the street and I saw a pond and I got a fish out of the pond on and I ate that with my family. It was not written in that same way. It was definitely written in a style in which it was structured in a way that was for entertainment. TAIN -ment right whether it's you can still have a true story written this way but this was not written in the structure of the time to be historical account at I call it poetry. But it's it's like a literary stylistic sort of a choice that was written for to read and enjoy not document history at that makes sense. Yeah and it from that perspective. I can see where people say that It is poetry and it is that stylistic writing because then you also have the representation of in this account atom man himself was not created until day six. How would he know what was said? Five days prior exactly. Well look it would be like I've given this example on the show before but it would be like you know you you marrying your wife and Let's say you go to get married on. I don't know at the very end of the first year you've known each other right and so you write this beautiful poem and you call it three sixty five to be artistic and you're like on day one. Your Eyes met mine on Day. A two we exchanged phone numbers on day. Three and then you write this beautiful story and you like on Day forty. We kissed on Day. This you know and then we held hands and then so you know on day three sixty five. It's an honor to Marietta to make you my wife. Some of those could have been true. Maybe you did kiss on day. Forty for the first time. And maybe you did you know whatever but it doesn't mean that literally everything happened on those days. Exactly you're being poetic to tell overall all that you fell in love but not in somebody finds this you know in in two thousand years and they start debating whether or not you locked eyes on day one you you know what I mean or or did they kiss on day forty. I don't know I'm going to have a religion that says they did. You have religious as they didn't and let's just kill each over over over a piece of land because I think they kissed on they forty and you think they didn't you know it's just that's essentially what I think is happening genesis. I I think it was very clear that it was meant to be Literary or poetic in some way and people are getting so caught up. People have gotten so caught up in being historically accurate when it's just not written as has a historical account. Yeah and I think that is a possibility and this is where we get into this. Entire thing. Kind of came from is how we can and get Diversity among human population and still have biblical accuracy in terms of this scripture. So if you have so if you have this time line that I've laid out as the possibility of Stuff not being put in the Canon in the order it was necessarily early done then. You have the representation of formless Earth desolate wilderness type deal the garden of Eden being created man man being put in the garden Man Falling in the garden and Falling Into Sin God with his fierce anger sending the earth into a period of mourning and to a period read of darkness. And that's found in Jeremiah. And then in genesis one you go back to the section where it goes into you The earth being formless and void and then God reigniting the spark of creation so speech. But this is when you get into really interesting passage that brings me to. The biodiversity is when it says this then God said let us make man in our image according to our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky over the catalina overall the never every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. God created hated man in his own image in the image of god He created him male and female he created them God blessed them and God said to them be fruitful fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it rule over the fish of the sea the birds in the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth and God set up behold I give you every plants and so on so forth every beast of the sky giving you everything that's all. He made the hold of his good. So if you have Adam and eve in the fall of man happened prior and you have this representation in genesis one were God then created the entire earth and then not only created the entire earth but also created male and female in the same instance in that same scripture injustices one twenty seven and not only did he create them then he tells them to go fill the earth and subdue you were with Adam and eve he placed them in the garden of Eden directly and the rest of the Earth did not have trump or plant or seed bearing approve. It sounds to me John like it. It sounds like you're talking yourself right into allusion the number one that you're talking it sounds like you're talking yourself right into theistic evolution and number two like I said I'm looking at it as a possibility. Would he have to look at it. Biblically you know. I think you're I think you're making the right moves and the right thought process and I don't want to discourage that I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but oh I know from where from where you are. I think it's a great move. That's what that's my position on this. I think that I don't I don't want to shut down what you're saying hanging and drive you back into a quarter. I like the steps that you're taking I think that in order to get 'cause you're diving really really deep into all of this and I'm glad you're thinking about it but again if you go back to and you said you're going to look into it so I don't want to beat you up over it. But the the very concept of God breathing life and making may not have dust and breathing life into his nostrils. We know that's not the case because the fossil record so you don't really have to dive deep into this and make this huge theory in this big shift Because we know that we evolved through route through apes and I think the fact that the Bible does not connect that and tell us that that we evolved through Early Hominids the left part of part of what reduces the credibility of being able to trust it. But I'm I think the other thing that you're doing which is why I don't WanNa stop you from thinking this way is you're also sort of finding more and more errors with the Bible now before you jump on that. Let me say what. Let me explain what I mean by that. You're fine maybe things are out of order. This creates a problem with this. This would this is fine except the other verse says this and that's a problem and that type of thinking John I'm I'm GonNa tell you that's that's where it all started for me. That's where it all started for. Most people listening. Who are atheists is? We're like no. I'm Christian but I don't like the idea that my friend on the streets streets going to hell let me look into that or I'm Christian but I'm in ninth grade biology class and it doesn't make any sense that we came from apes if God created man August and everybody starts somewhere and goes. That doesn't really make sense to me. And then the wheels start turning it's that desire for truth that desire for from making things make sense is ultimately leads to atheism. And so I don't want to scare you but Something I'm holding out hope because I want you to be like me. You have the thought process of a skeptic you do in people may disagree with me because you're willing to stretch and say maybe this maybe that and you're not willing to. I'm telling you I'll argue against them every day. I disagree with some of your reasoning. But your your passion for searching for the truth is is the kind of passion that Just about every atheist I know Had At least had when they were doing with religion leads into politics. They don't know they they don't always keep that Passion for truth but For the most part you have you. Have you have the the frame of mind of a skeptic and I really appreciate talk about you so I'm looking forward to see what goes in in terms of in terms of skepticism about about God I don't have any. I guess you could say in terms of skepticism about evolution as a possibility and it being reinforced the Biblical Blackie I. I'm fine without so then. Let me ask you this so whatever we get to something like like because I think you do I think thank you do have skepticism about God and I'm GonNa push back on that a little bit and I realized it was a self assessment but I could be wrong about your own assessment of your own belief and and I say that because whenever we talk about human evolution in the Bible being wrong about that. You're like I'll I'll have to look into that awesome and then we talk talk about the the problems of the Bible when it comes to science with the bats the the rabbits and the the sun stopping in the air. And you're like okay. I'll make a note. I'll make a note. I'll make a note all of those things the whole point as an atheist and I'll just show. Oh you all my cards John. The whole point of this is to show you why as an atheist when I was a Christian how I started losing losing faith in the Bible I not God not Jesus it was. I found time after time after time I it couldn't trust this book. It would lead me in one direction. I would think I had the truth in that one. Find Another Bible verse. That would slap me in the face and I'd go well hell. This can't be true if that's true. Which one is it? And I'd make a little note and go have. This thing is really frustrating to follow in. Just like you're finding right now. If you can mix up all the pages ages and change the order it would make more sense. Well how is it that an all knowing creator of the universe divinely inspired valued this allegedly perfect book that is starting to show some cracks and some wear and tear and some problems and some pages out of order and some misogyny me and some you know it goes line by line by line. We're like God I got to defend this. Got To defend that. And there's a crack crack in that and I just kept making note after note after note of things that didn't add up or things that were contradictory or things that were anti scientific or that didn't line up with what I knew to be in reality and I just talked to professors vessel now. That's what my whole book is about my whole journey of going the baptize atheist. For those who want to go. Grab the Audio Book. I that's what it's about that's what it was for. Me Is the credibility of the Bible so that Oh yeah that's right you you read it. That's that's where it all started for me and so I see you in the very early stages of even though you say you're not a skeptic when it comes to God I think that Dude God is in the Bible. We get our ideas of God from the Bible. People may claim to have spiritual experiences and everything else but it's all referenced and based on the God that they learn about in the Bible in a step by I step you start unraveling that this book is not some sort of holy divined inspired perfect book of eternity but instead instead a book that was sort of peace peace together from fishermen and riders and countless anonymous scribes and it has errors in it and things are out of order and it doesn't really tell the truth about several aspects of science slowly but surely I think you will find that at the Bible has credibility issues. And then you'll be like like can't trust it for sure on human evolution and I have a huge fossil record to show that I can't trust it says it just just made man out of dust while the fossil record doesn't suggest that and we see the evidence in line by line. We'll plants weren't even here yet but it says he's in the garden Donovan and that's the kind of talked about in your only in Genesis. This is so many problems just in genesis. You can move on to different parts of James and James is GonNa say you know the whole thing about tempting man. It just keeps growing and growing and growing of challenging by ability in my home I know but my whole point is eventually with all of these problems in the Bible. I think I think you are skeptic. I think at some point you may be ninety nine point nine nine percent but there is a small part of you. I think that realizes that it's possible for you to come out the other side and go. I can't defend this book anymore. There are too so many problems. No because and I. I'm just kind of keep pushing back but the you mentioned personal experience. I've had personal experiences. That reinforced my favorite stronger. Then hard almost anything I've had personal experiences with demons. I've had personal experiences with. We talked about the healing on the last episode With a friend of mine who broke his foot and he was in horrible pain and in an instant. That pain was gone A lot of people on that episode. They questioned me and the Patriots action about that. That whole thing. But it's it's it's something that happens something something that have we ever did. Not Have we ever talked about Zia. Have we ever talked about your experience with demons. No The let's get into that for the Patriots. Here's what I wanted to be. Here's what I WANNA do. I'm really interested in that. I want to know how that happened but I'll say to John that things happen to people a lot that they don't understand but but if you have been and I'm gonNA use the I word and I know you don't like it but you were indoctrinated into the faith. As a child. You were taught that this was the truth. That was the only truth. And you're not necessarily encouraged to question and as a child that is the definition of indoctrination being told that you'll worldview is the only worldview view now that you're breaking out of that and looking at other possibilities that's awesome but you were indoctrinated as a child to think that that was is the only truth so when these things happened to you as an adult you were always looking at your experiences through. ooh The eyes of someone who was indoctrinated into the faith to believe a certain type of reality that my daughter has never even considered possibility so when something would happen to her something would fall off the wall something she would always go. Oh maybe the blue that or maybe I didn't put it up good enough. She would never even consider. Maybe a demon telling me not to put that there. Maybe God is against that picture like it was just not a part of her framework. So you have to allege allege that as things like that. Okay I WANNA get into that but I just wanted to say that before. Removed over the patriarch portion of the show. That's what that's definitely a thing to consider. Is that everything that has happened or that. You've dreamed or that you've of experience or that you've seen that you've experienced wide awake whatever. It's all under the understanding of this being your reality that God was not a possibility. He was known. Proven fact for you so you just have to keep in mind that that was your mindset at the time of these experiences. Oh yeah I understand and let me. Let me say this in terms of my skepticism. I am not skeptic of God's existence I've seen too many things I've been I I've it's IT'S I. I don't want to quote distributor from the perspective of The scripture where it says the pool in his heart says says there is no dry that. That's that's used to as a weapon against a lot and I don't think it should be used as a weapon I think I think it actually should be extended as an olive branch in a Lotta ways but and I and I. I'm trying to figure out the best way to say this to where I can clearly convey what I'm trying to Assert here it's not just because of my personal experiences. It's because I have seen time and time again. God change lives instantaneously and drastically. I'm not just talking about things that have happened to me but I'm talking about looking at someone wanted who was a drug addict. Meth head messed up. Everything going wrong in life come to an altar then never trust touch drugs again. The fact that I've seen people come to an altar of cool were dealing with pornography who dealing with alcoholism who were dealing in with You name it. I've seen so many people changed by the power of God in a way that it's just undeniable undeniable and it can't be chalked up to an experience when someone who would who was done drugs for the last ten years no longer have the desire dyer and never goes through withdrawal. It can't it can't be choked up the luck and that's not scientific and that's not medical. That's something spiritual and dumping on a spiritual virtu level well as far as the withdrawal things in my life I get that and as far as the withdrawal thing goes I was with you up until then He. Here's the deal. I don't know if that happened or not. I don't believe so it just depends on the level of addiction. Depends on the drug. Depends on a lot of things whether or not they're going to have withdrawal symptoms or how severe those withdrawal symptoms would be or if they would even tell you about those withdrawal symptoms but there are also tons of it here but John You have to understand that that there are thousands of Muslims that will tell you the exact same thing that they found on believers those nonbelievers I accepted Mohammed accepted law and no longer had alcoholism and no longer had a math problem. There are people who do the same thing with various parts of Christianity. That you would disagree with and I mean hard core fundamentalists you know young earth. creationism women women. Know your place you would say the same you'd like. I don't agree with everything they say but and they'll tell you. Hey I know my faith is right because there's been people come here and they've been addicted to drugs and then they come to the altar and then they're healed. Guess what there are tons of nonreligious people. There are are Hindus. Jews there are atheists who have those addictions and overcome them without your version of Christianity. Without your God they do it through Islam or they do it through nothing. They do it through sheer sheer willpower of of their own. I mean I know people who say they quit smoking cigarettes because the power of Christ compelled them to stop and he took away their desire to smoke and I am someone who smoked and then I saw my child walk through. She was thirteen months old. And she I was smoking in the living room. I've never smoked in the same room with her but I was smoking in the living room and she was. She was in the in the bedroom she got up from a nap and walked. Got Into my living room and broke this cloud of smoke and I thought I'm a terrible father. I can't believe I'm smoking in my house where my daughter can breathe it then. My next thought was if I don't want her to breathe it in. Why am I bring it in? And don't I want to be around longer for more of her life. I two cigarettes in my pack stepped on my back Porch. I smoked both of them. Because I didn't want to have the temptation of having them. And I I I never smoked again. Then my daughter's now she's getting close to turning sixteen. I my willpower. took away my desire to smoke cigarettes just here recently. A few months ago I quit drinking Monster Energy Drinks I was drinking the white sugar. Free Monster Ultras and I was doing two. You're three a day for almost ten years. John that was a full on addiction. I couldn't function in the morning without having an just always justified like I duNNo. It's like my coffee Obvi- and then around lunchtime start crashing. We'll have to have one after lunch. I can't go to sleep at two o'clock noon and I would down another one around seven o'clock. Hey do you WANNA go bowling. You WanNa go hang out. I'm too you tired. Drink a monster. Let's go I quit. I was doing comedy I got really sick. I thought it was going to throw up on stage. I was backstage between shows literally vomiting. And then I went why AM I. It's got to be the monsters. I'm not GonNa do this stuff to my myself anymore and my willpower. Oh power overcame that. I haven't had a monster energy drink since November. I think it was fifteen only remember that because I was in Kansas City doing a show when I quit it. And I'm that willpower did that. No God needed no Christ necessary. No miracle involved so secular people can very well overcome addictions and things like that. They can turn their lives around and I get it I. It's not that I don't believe you. I believe you that these people turned their lives around but that just that's just it John. I think their belief gave them the strength drink to turn it around. Still no spirituality needed. Their belief in that spirituality was strong enough to turn their lives around whether God exists or not. I think they did that. And I want them to have the credit for turning their own lives around his secular people do it all the time. I am without God so to say that he's the way to get it. Done just doesn't fit within reality. Let let me ask this question question. Why do you think Christianity is the number one conversion religion in in terms of converting other religions to them? What what is your take on that the fact that there there's not another religion in the world that converts as many people as Christianity that that is easily and not just because the majority you're talking about Muslims thousands upon thousands of Muslims convert each year to Christianity and leave the Koran? And leave the idea of our. You're and leave the idea of Muhammad and embraced. Jesus why is Christianity the most compelling religion in your in your opinion why Christianity the most compelling religion to bring people to a point of conversion against everything and every religion that they were indoctrinated into I tried to Google it real quick as you were talking. I don't know for sure that's true. was talking about version rate. Yes I'll I'll I'll assume it's true for the policies sir. Okay it sounds right. I could see that I can see Islam being a close second if not I But I think I think it would be fairly simple. I think that if that is the case first of all actually push back a little and say I believe that atheism them while it's not a religion A lack of a religion is growing faster than any faith at all. I think people are losing faith at a much faster faster rate than any religion is growing and I think the PE- research studies by back that up. I I'd like to look at those numbers. Okay that's that's that's some pretty intense numbers. You have to be in terms of billions of Christians. No Norman by not saying I'm not saying actually from wikipedia and I know what Kapiti has its problems according to Twenty fifteen believers in Christ from a Muslim background a global global sense of study estimates ten point two million Muslim converts to Christianity around the world convert into Christianity have also been well-documented documented reports estimate that hundreds of thousands of Muslims convert to Christianity annually. Okay My my Ju just why do you think that's happened just in terms of dealing with Muslims and Christianity. It is not it is not happening. The other way around eight or Christians are not converted to Muslims. Even close even in the ballpark at the same rate. Okay I just sent you an article Michael and we'll deal with it later. from National Geographic That's called the world's was most most popular. It's one of those things that covers. The world's newest major religion is no religion and this is from a twenty sixteen it shows galloping includes a p research and it's a a national geographic dot com shows that that secularism is outgrowing all other religions. But again it's not a pissing matter LE. Let's just assume that what you're saying is right that out of converting to an actual religion because atheism is not no religion not religion so out of the conversion rates to a religion. I would say that there are a few reasons why that would be the case. If it is in fact I would say more than anything. It's a fear of hell and I would say If you look at where those conversions happen. I'm not trying to insult anyone. This is statistical data from Census and from Pew Research. You can directly correlate religion with a lack of education. This is an intelligence this access to information access to science access to higher levels of education occasion the more education one receives the less likely they are to be religious. You Trust your track that all the start with fourth grade education -CATION fifth grade education dropping out of junior high dropping out of high school extremely high religious rates. Someone with a bachelor's degree is less likely to be religious religious of someone who dropped out of high school. Someone with a masters degree is less likely to be religious. And that person with the bachelor's degree and it goes all the way up to PhD in it's all shows a correlation so lack of opportunity lack of education rural areas. People who work on farms people who aren't really a part of a big booming society tend to be more religious people who are in highly populated areas like Tokyo or California or New York York where there's a lot of money access to education And Access to information Internet laptops Wifi they tend to be able to Google things. More have more access to information. Tend to be less religious so I would say that we have to pay attention to where that's happening and that I think people with missing information and a lack of education are more likely to be tricked into believing something. That's not true so I don't think that someone if you're going to go into the argument that billions of people believing something is somehow evidence that it's true. Do We then have to. You have to acknowledge why Islam has almost the same amount of people Christianity so it. It's a `bout adaptation. It's about fear it's about control over a society it's about ain't getting people in their vulnerable the whole idea of the good news club Though they flat out say that getting kids kids between the four fourteen window is when you need to get them while they're vulnerable and trying to understand how information works. They try to sneak into public schools as a motivational ovation will speaking situation. And then start preaching to children and telling them they're GONNA go to hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ and they get that conversion so a lot of times it's sneaky tactics. It's preying on people who are vulnerable. I can tell you how many funerals I've been to where a person would get up there and say if you ever Wanna see your uncle again or your grandmother mother again. You'll convert to Christianity and stop being a non believer. They attacked people when they're vulnerable and they tend to attack people who are in positions where they're lacking information are lacking education. And I think that's the reason. Christianity has grown. It's it's a corporate machine that goes after the right people for numbers and that's that's really it. I mean Mormons do the same thing. Mormons go back and baptize people who were dead in rebaptized by proxy an add those add those people to their numbers to try to seem like the largest religion in the world. I it's a it's shady and I think their practices of growth do do not have anything to do with how true their doctrines so to me here. Here's kind of how I classified I classify as has Who has the strongest God? 'cause a lot of people they asked the question well there How many thousand religions that have existed over human history? Why is your God the true God right? Well if you really break it down. Thousands of religions may have existed and also thousands dead You get to roughly twelve to fifteen primarily Primary religions that still exist in terms of the world religions and three three of those Well actually two of the three of those have to do with primarily the same God in terms of Judaism Islam and Christianity even though they call theirs Allah and callers. y'All way well A lot a lot just means God. Yeah exactly that's my point is the Koran you deal with Jesus specifically as kind of what I'm saying so out of those twelve to fifteen religions that are still primary and still in existence. You have three of those religions that deal primarily with With Jesus Judaism it rejects. Jesus unless you're a messianic Jew but if you're Orthodox you obviously you reject Jesus Christianity is embalm even though it doesn't believe Jesus is more powerful than Mohammed it still deals with Jesus so you have the primary religions that still exist and you have the points of reference that three of them deal with the same Characters I guess if you want classified that way. I don't want to really say in that way but dealing with the same deity and I find that extremely interesting from the perspective of like I said who has the strongest God throughout all of human history. Three my God has won every contest in terms of challenging his deity challenging Wa nine like like what what what what does he won. What do you mean he's won every contest? He's not a real he's one of the. We're one of the oldest religions as well as Hinduism and wisdom in terms of organized is religion is older than Judaism and Christianity. But you have this this representation All these religions that have died out. Why is Christianity not diet wise? You deism not died out. Wise Islam not died out all dealing with the same deity eighty to an extent what I mean by winning every contest is he's not been defeated. Then I don't believe he ever will I What I believe is long? I'm sorry I don't understand. I don't understand your point here. I that at link I just sent you as an example I would say that is a massive loss for your God. The fact that secularism that no religion is growing is becoming the largest religion the largest religious belief The fact that nobody people we're just falling off people are realizing that some of the assertions aren't true that the Bible isn't credible people are not like that. I don't understand how you can say that you got is winning every time I I really don't get it in the Bible. The Bible said that was going to happen so that that's in a way how it's nice to winning. The Bible says very clearly that John Basically I mean generally I mean I know I mean listen that would be like me Goin'. Hey Man I'm GonNa Levitated to the studio tomorrow. Now haters haters are going to say it's fake but trust me I'm GonNa Levitated and then you don't see it and I post evidence of me levitating online and when people go that's fake. I saw the bullshit. You'RE GONNA go. David said people were going to say he was faking it. That doesn't lend credibility ready to me. Actually levitating it just means I knew people were going to call bullshit on my bullshit. Don't make that do not accurate at the time that was written by that is that is opposite. You have people that died for your people that are still dying report. And I'm not saying and the suicide bomber way I. I'm talking giving their lives willingly. In terms of in terms of martyrs we have missionaries I'm a part of the assembly of God. We have missionaries in every almost every single country in the world. Lemon we have multiple. Put it to you like they just pull something up. Hold on just real quick. I'm just curious. A quick thought experiment. Because we're supposed to be moving into the Patriots section to talk about the demons. I'm really curious about that. according to several sources according to several sources more than twenty thousand Americans every year convert to Islam in the UK. It's an estimated that five thousand two eight hundred people convert to Islam every year the total number of converts without throughout the whole UK is about one hundred thousand France. It's between four thousand to seven thousand and convert to Islam in Germany. More than four more than four thousand Germans convert every year in Russia. It's about ten thousand in Singapore about five hundred in Ireland. It's roughly forty eight thousand in Spain. It's two to four thousand. All of these are conversions versions to Islam every single year. So I would ask you why are thousands and thousands of people from all over the world converting to Islam every year. Well that's still not dealing with the millions that are converting to Christianity doesn't matter I'm not having a pissing that why there can in terms of why they're converting I I mean I don't know I'd have to ask them genuine. I'm like why do you think that is why would thousands of people be converting to Islam every year very possibly because they're becoming skeptics so they seek out something else. I don't understand being skeptic for being if you're being a skeptic of Christianity makes no sense to join Islam because Christianity Me Islam came about the Bible's what four to six hundred years older than than the Koran. So the it makes no sense Some some verses in the Koran ripped directly from scripture Islam is like a copycat religion of Christianity. Christianity was definitely I so I would someone become a skeptic of Christianity and then start believing in something that was a copy of something they were just a skeptic of. I'm GonNa need a better answer out of either. I mean I I would say there's multiple reasons there's there's ill information there's You can you can like I said it is how hard to put in our group of people. I understand your point. Yeah okay good I wanna read this part From from a regular website that says Oh. CBN It's a fact that Islam is growing rapidly in the West. The United States alone in the in the United States alone. The number of Muslims has risen dramatically from about ten thousand nine thousand nine hundred to three million in Nineteen ninety-one some authorities say it's up to a four and a half million. Most of this growth is due to recent immigration and the high birth rate of Muslims. They average about five children per family In the US majority are African American. A third of all Muslims according to most authorities but there have also been significant. Numbers of anglos blows to convert as well many of them well educated so we would we would have to address that and again. I don't really need an answer and you got my point. The point is if are you if you research No it was. CBN The the the point was and again. It's it's back to that same analogy of me saying here's all this evidence of the killer and you go. Yeah but he was a really nice guy and made sandwiches for his daughter. If if if you are leaning on people converting to Christianity has evidence of it being true you then need to justify why thousands of other people are converting to Islam when you go well. Christianity has more. It's not about that. Has Nothing to do with what has more. If thousands of people converting thing is evidence of it being true then thousands of people converting to Islam has to be evidence that Islam is true. And I know you're not willing to accept that so then that's not really evidence of Christianity being true it's more evidence. It's more evidence for being true. We asked me why while he's people converting the answer is that that you're serving as wha as here's the fact that it's true but more so here is a an idea to think about it validity. There I think you're saying the same thing thinking about its validity versus evidence that it's true you're saying the same thing with different words. John the point is if it's true for Christianity. It's true for Islam and if Islam can grow and have thousands of converts and still be false else. The same is true for Christianity. It could be having millions of converts and still be wrong. Same is true for secularism. It could still be wrong. Even though tons of people are bailing from religion. I'm willing to admit that. Let's do the one thing. One final thing I want to say on this issue and then we can get into the Patriots is you. Were saying the reason a lot of people people convert because of fear of hell and in my experience as a pastor and what I've seen it is actually the opposite. It is it is not fear of how I I know. You might have an idea that all preachers do is go around and preach about hell all the time. But that's just not true. There's there's many more pastors in this day and age in this modern day and age that that are tickling ears as the Bible describes they are. They're they're looking for a what we call the Prosperity Gospel and they are preaching to make people feel good rather than telling them the truth Appel rather than like one big example of that is Joel stay at. I'm sure you've heard of him. Oh yeah okay so yeah Joel. osteen is is one one of the pastors heavily seen as a Prosperity Gospel preacher. I don't think ever never ever met Christian. Who Likes Joel Stein? Like if you're listening out there and you're a fan of Jolo Stein right into me so that I know you exist because everybody I talked to goes makes me sick sick oh I cringe. Every time smiles big dumb teeth. I hate that. He takes advantage of people and takes all their money. He's the guy in Houston has he's huge the million dollar churches and whenever there is a flood. He refused to open his doors to let people in who needed places to stay. That was that that made a lot lot of news in Texas and a lot of Christians who aren't Get Joel Osteen. Listen I have nothing against I have nothing against the guy personally I I a lot of Christians take it way too far with them key. He's doing what works for him at the business but New Church isn't meant to be a business right. Jesus of Jesus were around. Today he would flip over Jolo Steen's entire church as a possibility. Yeah all right well we get into that end. Spend hours just on that conversation and I really don't want to hate my job so I'm going to move this into your story Lori and your interaction with demons. I'm really looking forward to this conversation But we're GONNA do it for the people who support the show over it. Patriots dot com slash. David C smalley. Everybody else please drive like you know each other. Hey I'm andy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades. Most brands winds were overpriced over designed out of touch. At Harry's our approach is simple cures are secret we make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars. Each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like by a world class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering one hundred percent quality guarantee. 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How to Grow and Monetize Your Social Media Channels with Zach Benson

Entrepreneur on FIRE

25:13 min | 2 weeks ago

How to Grow and Monetize Your Social Media Channels with Zach Benson

"Lights that spark fire nation jail d. Here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the hub spot podcast network with great shows like my first million today will be focusing on how to grow and monetize your social media channels to drop these value bombs. I have brought zach benson. Do fire studios. Zach is the founder of assisted graham and instagram growth agency that's helped influencers and fortune. Five hundred companies accrue millions of new followers on instagram dubbed. The influencers secret weapon by entrepreneur magazine zach founded instagram to empower influencers such as les brown's yours truly jail d russell brunson and companies such as click funnels to connect with their target audience and cut through the noise throughout his career. He shared the stages with powerhouses such as tony. Robbins sylvester stallone. Greg dame john gary and many more today fire nation we will be talking about how to make your social media. Content go viral some growth acts. Today we're talking today growth hacks that will work to grow your social media. We're gonna talk about creating a funnel to generate leads for your business and leveraging your following so that you can connect with anyone into a lot more when we get back from thinking. Our sponsors organic specializes in creating delicious superfood blends including my favorite organic green juice powered by herbs and mushrooms. That literally help you adapt to the stress in your life and today you can get twenty percents off your order. Just visit organic by dot com slash fire. That's o. r. g. a. n. Ifi dot com slash fire and use code fire at checkout for twenty. Percents off your order zack. Say what's up to fire nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey what's up. Fire nation this zach benson. Here super excited be here. So if i could share one piece of advice like one thing that most people disagree with that Has made me super successful. It would just be like you know. Time is money right. Because i think a lot of people think that You know in order to make money you have to spend money. But that's not always the case I think that the more time that you put into something the more time that you can spend reading books and learning from mentors the more time you can shave off your learning curve to help you reach the top and so that's one piece of advice i would share one thing. I'll jump in here. Fire nation shares. Then i know zach for a number of years now. He's spoken to multiple congresses together. We've worked together as you heard about the introduction and one thing that i've always admired about zach that's a lot of people don't or won't do is make the ask like zach as bold brother like he will make the ask he will come out. He will make an ask and he will keep asking until he gets a definitive. No like if somebody puts you off. And they're like. Oh well maybe not right now. Don't take that as a now. Keep coming back to that person until they slam door in your face because you never know when the right time it's going to be and until you get the door your face. There's always an opportunity and just one of those opportunities can help you explode your growth and again i've seen. He's active that time and time again with his company and with his business and everything that he does. And it's just a great trait that i know is propelled him over the years. So fire nation. Make the ask and as i mentioned today. We're talking about how to grow and monetize your social media channels fire nation and i wanted to start by talking about this word viral because we hear viral a lot and a lot of people think that viral is out of reach for them in the social media world. Like if they can't do some cute dance on talk. They don't think they're ever going to get many lakes reviews or shares. How can we zach. The average human being make our social media content go viral with great content. Comes more girls and you know. I think everybody's trying to go vile but they're just like you know how like what do i do and i think nowadays on social media people show people what they want to show her show people nothing at all and i think the more that you show the more that you're vulnerable the more that you're authentic real and raw like people will really resonate with that type of message because they're like okay like the skies a real person like he's gone through some of the same things that i'm going through right now you know. He's he's super successful now. So i think it's talking about a time. Where maybe you lost your biggest deal or you got fired from a job or talking about your pains in gains like lessons that you've learned from mistakes that you've made in time them back into businesses really the way to go viral on social media nowadays so when i really want to make sure that your understanding here fire nation is the you need to be vulnerable. You need to be real. You need to be raw and some things that zach was talking about actually brought something up for me and listen. Cover your ears fire nation. If you're a little sensitive to sensitive things. But i'm gonna tell you a real story right now. That's a lot of people have heard about and it's not the first time it's been referenced online for sure because it actually has been used as quite a good case example of a bunch of times. There is this female trainer and she was doing everything she could to break in like. She just couldn't figure out why she wasn't able to break in but the reality was she was just doing what everybody else is doing. Just do thirty seconds of planks do depths. Do this do that. And so she wasn't really having any kind of unique offering and so nothing was going viral for her. Nothing was clicking. Nothing was connecting with an audience and then one day when she was recording a video. She peter pants. She literally peed her pants while she was recording the video and she almost like immediately took it off like live and like went off in a recent video but then she's like wait a second. I have this problem. And i know other women and of course some men do as well but specifically she knew a lot of women that had this problem as well. She's like what if i'm just real raw authentic and just show that yeah. This is embarrassing but this does happen. And now i'm going to shift and i want to focus on helping you. Make sure this doesn't happen to you in public because there is a ton of people who would never go to the gym because they were terrified of this happening in public but she shifted her business to focus on that one thing by exercising certain muscles and other movements and things along these lines and she went viral and she crushed it by doing that. One thing because she was vulnerable she was real and she was raw. So don't be afraid to be those things fire nation. That's what's going to get you to that next level now. Let's talk about growth. Acts this talk about strategies like this is something that you're always keeping your finger on the pulse on zach. What is going on right now today. As far as growth acts and strategies to grow our social media has changed right like a lot of these platforms like organic growth is really hard to do. No right you can't just simply post and grow but what. I think that is still really working really really well. And we'll continue to work while For years to come is what. I call the kind of semi organic growth which are called engagement groups so it's basically a network right of influencers celebrities that are in your niche all liking commenting on your content several times throughout the day. And that helps you get more exposure in get your contests seeing known in her everywhere. So let me tell you this like the the engagement groups algorithm has changed right slow in a few years ago like all all that would matter. It's like getting a bunch of likes in a short window of time in people had all of these. You know Spots in services to do that but now instagram's algorithms are so smart that they can detect automation and sacre. So if you're using box or soccer you should stop using that recount get compromised shutdown instead use engagement groups do it manually. And you'll get your content seen in heard everywhere in finance and this is why you want to learn from the best and you want to study the best and you want to consume content from the best because these are the individuals like zach for instagram. Who are keeping their finger on the pulse. We're seeing as things change. I mean we just had this huge affiliate lodge not too long ago and right before the launch started everything changed when it came to facebook ads because of some apple updates and guess what it was the people who had the pros on their team that had the experts that we're following consuming the right content that quickly shifted and didn't even see a blip in fact they were benefiting more because the people that weren't able to make that shift were left way behind wayne the dust. They went from being competition to not even existing in that space. So you need to be listening and learning about these growth acts in these strategies to grow your social media and before we take a break. Let's talk about another one another growth or strategy that you've seen that's right now. When it comes to overall social media. I see a lot of people going to live with the big influencers celebrity and that driving a ton of traffic and followers to that person's page so it's figuring out a way to get your foot in the door to peak interest You know from a celebrity or influence that has the massive following in the same industry niches. You and offering them something the value and doing the trade right say like hey in exchange for you know like i. I've noticed this. You always talk about this this that right. I really love your content. I really love when you talked about this learnt x. When i watched this video. And so i would say that if you can figure out a product or service that could help them excel in expand on dirk career their reach in and do a trade like in exchange for life on their feed. That's the best way to grow nowadays. And that's one of the best ways and i found that i've been growing by finding the right people to connect with doing these trees doing these exchanges getting in front of the right people which is another reason. Why in podcasting fire nation. I spend one day per month being guest on twenty other podcasts. Because that's like the instagram version of exchanging posts or story takeovers etc. Is me being on other podcasts. Because guess what. I know that every single person that's hearing my voice as a guest on a podcast is listening to a podcast and if i can impress them or add value to the world that i could potentially in my call to action of checking on entrepreneurs on fire get them as he subscriber to my show as well so we have a lot of awesome. This upcoming fire nation. And we're going to be actually offering you a pretty cool opportunity via zach because he loves fire nation so stick around till the end and right. Now we'll take a break to thank our sponsors all around the world. Tech companies are innovating and driving returns for investors. Our crowd analyzes companies across the global private market selecting those with the greatest growth potential. Them brings them to you from personalized medicine to cybersecurity to robotics to quantum computing and more in state of the art. Labs started garages and anywhere in between our crowd is identifying innovators so you can invest. When growth potential is greatest early our kraus's accredited investors have already invested over one billion dollars in growing companies in many of their members have benefited from the forty six. Ipo or sale exits of their investments. Now you can truly diversify your portfolio by investing early in innovative private market companies at our crowd joined the fastest growing venture capital investment community at our crowd dot com slash fire. That's oh you are cro wd dot com slash fire. Our crowd dot com slash fire zach. We're back in. How can we create a funnel and generate leads for our business on instagram. Because here's a problem. A lot of people are getting a lot of likes. they're getting a lot of shares or getting some comments interaction some engagement. But that's where it ends. It's just like it just dries up right there like a desert raindrop but we need is a funnel so that when we generate these leads were actually generating real business. What does that look like. People are thinking of moving scrolling so fast rate so you have to be able to pique their interest and catch survey interest in a couple of seconds right. They see your content. You know like show you love leave a comment and maybe even hit the fall button so as soon as they land on your page you wanna make sure that your profile and is optimized so you have a really amazing headshot photo that super clear that maybe shows like what you do so if you like your speaker your offer like space. It shows that you're in front of you know. Hundreds of people speak in traveling all over the world. And you want to have very clear description of what you do and how you can help people with And then the second most important thing is to have a called action with the link that you can put on your bio so on my profile zach. Vaca- i've say. Hey learn how child the world for free and you know downer. So when people click on that link it brings them to my forbes article which is like instant street credibility like social proof. Okay exacts like the real deal he's been featured on forbes. The whole article is about how millennials use instagram to travel the world for free at the bottom of the article. I was allowed to put a free guide. And and basically that when people click on that free guide to facebook chat bot. It's like hey that you wanted to free guide. What's the best email redo. I send it to type in their email boom. It's on its way. So i'm building my email lists. I'm building my facebook chats bought subscribers which has like very high open rates and then my second question to them as a. I see that she love to free guide. By the way. I love free to join my mic. Free facebook group. And you're going to marry you know this this and that and you know it's all for free do you want it. Yes or no. And i get about. Yeah like forty fifty people just from the simple funnel of mine wanting in my facebook group every single day in so it's it's the process of multiple exposures and when people have like five to eight positive exposures where they're learning something getting something a value than you can go live in. The facebook group relied on instagram. Offer them some more free stuff and that with the call to action on your webinar inviting them. You know on a exclusive amazing trip to the maldives. So that's that's my fun on. That's high get people signed up for my now dives masterminds retreats and experiences all through this simple funnel in fire nation. That's what i want you to think about is creating a funnel legs just talked about. You know again. Like i do. I'll use my example on podcasting. Just give a different perspective is when you hear me at the end of this podcast promote free podcasts. Course to you. And i'm saying hey this is a free podcasting course teach you how to create and grow your podcast people. It'd be like oh. I wanna learn how to podcast for free. That will take them to this. Free course i deliver massive value. I give them me free. Podcasts masterclass which is hour long. And then at the end of that masterclass i pitch podcasters paradise and that funnel is always working in the background. So you need to have a process like this. No matter what platform you are on so that when you generate leads you have a funnel to generate business for your business now. Let's talk about leveraging are following connecting with people because relationships is huge you know the quote unquote sliding into somebody's diem. Is like a popular phrase these days at just frankly works. I've connected with some huge people just by sending them a dm. I mean i'm on peleton as like there's no way if i send a. Dm to my peleton instructor that they'll get back to me boom like within an hour. I'm like what's this is crazy. She's like you can literally connect with anyone if you go about it the right way. So let's talk some chatter about this zach leveraging our following and connecting with anyone give us some examples and you know maybe some fun stories numbers matter so the more numbers the more that you have on your social media profiles the bigger more influential powerful people. You'll be able to connect with so it's really easy. Reis like shortfall. Is we have a like when people when you. Dm people like celebrities are influencers are super successful entrepreneurs that you want to connect with maybe partner with and do some business with you have to send them. What's called a dm direct message and that goes into their inbox. Now what happens is you know they have the top requests in. They have all request in. So you want to land on the talk requests so the more followers that you have on instagram. You're going to have a better chance of landing at the top request. They're actually going to see that message. Out of the hundreds or thousands of messages that people send them you know every week so it's really important to grow your following number two. It's really important to get that blue check on instagram. Because when you have that blue check it unlocks bunch of benefits and also put you at the top of their inbox which can then get the noticed by you. Get them to read your message. Get them to hop. On a call. And i dislike to share this quick story about high high connected with this guy named jay park And got his company to grow to hire my company to grow some of the accounts and not this guy you signed by. Jay z rock nation. Only asian american hip hopper to be signed by his label. It's really cool. And you know at the time he had like three million followers. I think is almost six million now but i. I wanted to connect with them. Because i was born in korea. I was adopted by my cranston iowa. I went back to south. Korea found my birth mom. Ten years ago in so i wanted to learn about the culture learn language in also work with some awesome korean clients. And so this was like my dream client. And so how i went about it was. I'd message him. I messed everybody that Those in his crew. No-one replied no one answered. And then i finally found his. Dj in you know. He only had eighty thousand followers. And i was like. Hey you know. I i love your work. Love what you guys are doing. How about if. I grow your instagram for free. To over one hundred thousand followers no charge no cost and and i did that for a year and they love to results hints. You know then he. He started paying me for stuff more projects and one thing led to another. And you know it's it's cool how you can build relationships with celebrities just through a d. n. just through instagram and that really changed my life. I mean fire nation. This is one thing that i really want you to be understanding from. What zaka sharing here is that one of these opportunities one of these stories one of these things turning into a reality can change your life. It can change. The trajectory can change the direction. It can change the momentum. It can open up all new kinds of opportunities. i mean there's like three or four inflection. Points that i can point back to with entrepreneurs on fire that could have had me go left or right and left would have been me pod fading and never continuing the podcast and rights was the path that i chose fortunately just because of a few inflection points that led me to what i am today. This entrepreneurs on fire podcasts. Over one hundred million listens over million listens per month over twenty million dollars in total revenue like this is these inflection points all because of a few decisions that i made to take action just like i shared earlier. What i admire about zach. He makes the ask he takes action so that fire nation. They're ready. i mean these are action takers. You have some really cool things for fire nation. You have some services some products some knowledge some more content where they can really take everything that you're talking about here today to the next level. Take some time here. Talk about what you can offer my audience fire nation. I'm excited about this. Because you know social media has changed my life and social media's like just the way to grow in monetize your products and services and get your name in services out there to the world and so i've founded this company. It's called a sister graham so stink of a sister grand as like your own personal team. That's doing everything for you. Creating your contents content management posting for you five days a week doing these engagement groups doing these To get you see known in heard everywhere on instagram online. And it's it's done free service agency. Remind team handles everything for you. The content the social media goes riding the captions basically port pulling all of these stories from you and creating content for you doing everything. And that's that's what we do at assist grip so we just get people known everywhere online all. Replace and yeah. It's it's it's really fun. It's really cool. And so what do you specifically have for fire nation. Here i mean we're going to have a url assisted graham dot com slash. Fire going to a page going to list out a bunch of opportunities talk a little bit about that. We'll have a few different services available And you know basically will have a growth in content package growth engagement package and you just basically have to decide how fast you grow. So the more follows. You have the more people you can connect with the more Features that you can own lock on instagram. If you have over ten thousand followers you can also put links in your instagram stories. In instagram's stories has over six hundred million active users using it every single day. So it's another feature that you can unlock when you have ten thousand followers and it's just another way that you can monetize your instagram account. Sell your products and services so will be offering a few different packages that you can choose from and everything is hands off. You really don't have to do much at all. My team handles it. All fire nation. Check out all of this awesomeness over at assisted graham dot com slash fire. That's assessed a. S. t. graham assist a gram dot com slash fire. Zac what's the one takeaway you wanna make sure fire. Nation really gets from everything that we chatted about here today and then anything else you wanna share. And then we'll say goodbye on social media you can show people you wanna show or not show them anything at all. Just don't be afraid to put yourself out there. don't be afraid to just Speak up to post to say something online. Because you never know who's gonna who's listening and just that one story that you posted at one post that you posted on instagram could really change. Somebody's life so i'd encourage everyone to just put out content be real vulnerable rock with your content and start changing lives on social media start. Changing lies fire nation. Because why else are you listening to this white house. Are you on this earth. Wow so are you going to be doing what you're doing putting in all this hard work. Assist graham dot com slash fire. Check it out see. What's there zach and his team can help you do all the above varnish near the average of the five people you spend the most time with you've been hanging out with 'zibi and jail today so keep up the heat and head over to eofire.com if you type zack z. A. c. h. In the search bar his shown us beijing pop up with everything that we've been talking about here today. Fire nation zach. Thank you for sharing your truth. Knowledge value bombs with fire nation for that we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey fire nation. Today's value bomb content was brought to you by zak and fire nation over the last decade. I've interviewed more than three thousand of the world's most successful entrepreneurs and i've created a revolutionary seventeen. Step road map to your financial freedom in fulfillment. I put it all into my first. Traditionally published book the common path to uncommon success. Personally endorsed by seth godin. In mr gary vein. Nurture chuck the common path to success is the step by step guidance that you need fire nation to achieve the lifestyle of your dreams so visit uncommon success book dot com today. A catch on the flipside organic specializes in creating delicious superfood blends including my favorite organic by green juice powered by herbs and mushrooms. That literally help you adapt to the stress in your life and today you can get twenty percents off your order. Just visit organic by dot com slash fire. That's o. r. g. a. n. Ifi dot com slash fire and use code fire at checkout for twenty percents off your order.

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Ep 08: Growth, Top-Notch Marketing and Never Giving Up with Jason Portnoy

Elevate Others

30:11 min | 1 year ago

Ep 08: Growth, Top-Notch Marketing and Never Giving Up with Jason Portnoy

"Here's a question to think about. How do we turn our chaos into? Our pain into power. How do we break free from our own mental prisons and regain our identity, and that's the million dollar question and this podcast will give the answers. My name is Mary or race, and this is elevate others of the movement. Welcome everybody to another episode of elevate others the Movement with myself Mareo race today. We have a very special guest. Today we have the founder of true rivalry clothing brand, also the founder and CEO of J. Port Media Digital Marketing, agency and the host of the fastly growing podcast perfectly mentor, this gentleman as the host of perfectly mentored, has been featured in many publications such as Entrepreneur Inc magazine buzzfeed Yahoo Finance NBC ABC. CBS Fox and that's just to name a few, and he has also worked with businesses all over the world. He has been mentored by coached for and interviewed by such influencers as Damon John Gary Vena Chuck Frank Kern Tim. Bird And many more, so it is my pleasure to welcome to elevate others. The Movement Jason Portnoy Jason Thank you very much for being on. It is such an absolute pleasure so happy to be here, and being on the other side of things on the other side of the of hearing I usually read the BIOS of the people, not having them read to me, but I'm just GonNa take one clip and send it to my mom. I did not read that I actually did a memorize it because I've been following you for a very long time and meeting you in November and finding out the vast knowledge that you had and learning. Learning, I am computer illiterate. You have taught me an awful lot, and that's what elevate others is all about but I I really want to start by talking about true rivalry. This is a great story to me. You put a lot of branding into true rivalry, but more importantly, it was the marketing. This brand was sold in two hundred and fifty stores across north, America, but what was so compelling about the story was the fact that you use such incredible marketing strategies. It actually caught the attention of shark. Tanks Own Damon. John which is very impressive share with us. What were those marketing strategies? That would catch the attention of someone. Someone like Damon John So one is the combination of the tactics we used for the brand in order to position ourselves, and it's another of my personal marking that I didn't order outreach to Damon so it wasn't just. The brand caught fire and Ayman John Side. We were strategic. How did it so I read a book by David John I think it was called the brand within inside. He says he likes helping young entrepreneurs mentoring helping entrepreneurs on my great I'm starting a clothing company. This is awesome. I'm a young entrepreneur. Maybe help mentor me and I think Shark tank of just started a right before, so I went. Went on twitter, instagram didn't exist yet. I went on twitter and I was like hey, you like helping young entrepreneurs I'm a young entrepreneur getting started with love your help. Obviously, he didn't reply, but then I kept going I kept you know showcasing a little bit of true rivalry mixing in with some of the stuff. He was saying about how to build a brand, so it's actually showing that was listening to him a little bit, and then here and there i. go back and be like. Hey, you like helping entrepreneurs I. Love Your help. And finally he messaged me. He said he tweeted back. which was a great day. Damon John Dot Com because I reached out to him. I said. How do I reach you? How do I get this? And he wrote Daymond John? Dot Com and I'm like Oh awesome. We're going to go to his website. It was not a phone number on the website. There was no contact information. It was like the biggest blow off awesome. And I was like so excited that he responded to me, and so I was like okay. Great I don't see where to reach out to you on here doesn't work. No response kept doing it for maybe another month. Then it got a private message from him. Direct message from Demon Jaundice is awesome I. opened it up. It says Damon John Dot Com and I couldn't reply to him because he didn't follow me back, so there was no way to reply was. was like another blow McCabe going until finally I scored the meeting, and I think it was his assistant time was hey, where based on like Montreal. He's like okay. Can you be in New, York in next week I said one hundred percent went to new. York I think I was just getting over mono at the time even and I went worked out great. One of my best friends is getting married in new. Jersey so worked out and I was like. The meeting in that kind of how we got it, and then sent some samples, and he sent a tweet out saying seeing this branch who Robbie pop-up reminds me of the cult following Fubu had which Kinda just solidifies things in our books a little bit. It's an amazing story, but you didn't stop the adversity of continuing to reach out. Hymn was unbelievable, but you did get that first meeting. You got that first meeting. You show it up to that first meeting, but you almost blew that I. Meet share that with our listeners. They understand that you cannot give up, and you have to be as resourceful as possible to make sure if you do get that opportunity do. Do not let it slip out of your hands. Yes, so I got the meeting. I remember staying at a Buddy's house in new. York I took a cab to the Empire State Building 'cause Damon's on I, think the sixty seventh floor, super excited of so nervous walk there with like samples in my hand like a bag, and in my notepad, and also ready to soak it in and I, get security desk, sincerety, see I, mean even todman story. It kind of brings back like Damon. John I was so excited, but the security guys like all right typed it in like what's your name I tell him he's a cool. I. Need some x sure no problem. I'm like I. Left my wallet in the cat, so mom gone I. Don't have my wallet. He's like look I can't let you up. I can't give you a badge unless you have it, he goes. Is there someone do that? You know in the office that could come down about unlike Damon so. I'm like. That's the only person that that had any interaction with so I had my phone I was e mailing. His assistant actually knew his had since. No one responded to me. I always like to be like fifteen minutes early to a meeting, and that time was slowly winding down to meantime I. Remember was like a minute before like this. Guy's not going to let me into his office five minutes late. How serious do I look so unprofessional? They're trying to call everyone in the office worse time for their system to go take a lunch break. No one's answering the phones in there. I'm wondering this has gone meetings over and then. I hear the guy say okay. Someone's coming down to get you and I'm like okay. We're good and then John came back. John Johnny it's this is the guy that's here for you. I'm like. Oh God and I get in the elevator like I'm so sorry. This is not how I wanted to start things, and he couldn't have been nicer and he's like also embarrassed to. Say Look at least remember you now. Yeah, the fool that lost his wallet. There you go and. That was his mind forever of course. So and it worked I. Mean he remembered me every time the next couple of times. He's like you have your wallet on You I guess. He's remind you make sure you bring your wallet next meeting. He's like. Make sure you got everything you need to come up. Here I'm not coming down again. Like so turned into a joke. And then that turned into an amazing amazing opportunity for me. We met it also tumbled to an amazing friendship, not just the fact that he meant to you, but you guys have a friendship, and that's what. Of It I think everything happens for a reason for getting the wall. It happened for reason. I think on my third meeting with him I was one of his last meetings, and I had a flight coming back home again. Story that I never really told anywhere so like this is one of the first place I'm telling. The story I had a flight back home, and he came in on running a little bit late. But if you're willing to stay, we go grab dinner or with your order dinner in here and we can chat and like maybe I'm like. I can I got flacco. Actually like. Now thinking it I'm like how stupid are you? You're the worst businessman the worst the worst person like capitalize on opportunities like what's wrong with you pay the two hundred dollars to change your by tomorrow like this guy is going to have dinner with you. I'm sorry I got. He's like all right, so let's do half an hour. And then he said something to me which this it worked at even better. He's like Hey, man. I don't usually do this, but I feel bad. That I got cut short a little bit. Here's my cell phone number is like this my personal cell phone number call me. When you're back, home will finish the conversation on Skype, and now I have a cell phone number so obviously I don't abuse it, but with that turn into holidays. Happy holiday on his birthday happy birthday. Just messages like that and now I have this interaction with them that no one had even had dinner with him. It would turn into a meeting and dealing with the system to get the knicks needing now I have that instant connection, so it worked out. Everything happens for a reason, so let let's pivot. to Jay work, I mean you're obsessed with marketing. Everybody knows that everybody knows everybody follows you. You are obsessed with marketing and the marketing strategies what you've done for your clients and for businesses, not just with awareness and bringing them to the forefront, so people recognize who they are, but you've used specific marketing strategies where you were able to bring multiple businesses across seven figures and profitability multiple businesses to multiple six figures in profitability. When you look at a different type of agency that comes to you for your. Your help and for your expertise. Do you look at what type of agency you want to work for or do you take a specific strategy for the type of agency or for the type of company you're working for? We don't really do much work with other agencies it. It's more direct with the Klein unless we're. What's called white labeling another agency, but for the client. Yeah, we, I mean. We tend to look for people who have what's called proof of concept, especially being paid media a needed good. Your mom, liking the product your sister buying it. Your friend told you if you gave him one for free, he would use it like it's not sales. That doesn't mean anything markings very hard. Building businesses very very hard driven invest money in these platforms to make sure that you have your sales offer selfishly I like winning, so I only WanNa work with companies that have that because it puts us in a better position to get them. Them results? VERSUS NACH getting results. I always liked the cap ourselves on the back and say we're. We're getting good results, but also for them right I don't want people putting money into something. It's a lot harder. We have to prove out your systems for you I. mean one out of nine nine and ten offers pretty much fail so if we're the ones proving that out views costly if you're GONNA hire an agency to do that. Ethically I don't feel that's right unless they're wanting to grow and invest in building their brand in their image out there. Then that's fine, but if they want you know paid media facebook ads for example results. We tend to look for people have that proven sales offer already? Speaking of it you. As an entrepreneur and I want I. Want to listen to really understand that bringing people on who truly have that mentality of elevating others is really what this show is all about, and you truly do exemplify that. In the midst at the height of the pandemic, you put out an awesome post with social proof about why facebook ads at that time, you were very bullish on and I love using more bullish I come from the financial world. My background but you were bullish on, and you took advantage of that because you want to see people to continue to scale because a lot were pulling back. What was it in your vision that you saw the facebook ads? We're GONNA work more at that particular time people were at. At home right, everyone was so. You had a mix a perfect storm. What I call a perfect storm in now that perfect storm pretty much gone I mean it's still pretty good, but cost of don up, but it was a perfect storm. Every advertiser was cutting their budget. What happens when people cut their budget competition? goes down so you're not paying as much to advertise so if you're not paying as much to advertise, and I didn't the logic of business owners like so competition is going down which. Which means you can now get your ad and your message out there for cheaper and everyone's at home, so that tension on these platforms all time high right by because everyone's on-the-spot from their home all day. They're scrolling. They have nothing to do. There's no work no distracting. Everyone's on these up on social media is at an all time. High usage and costs are at like a two year low I. Mean you triple down on that? That's you look at that spread. You triple down you, don't you don't? Don't just say okay. We're GONNA keep advertising going you triple down and one of our clients did they average forty five thousand dollars a month in sales before the pandemic, they hit six hundred thousand last month in sales four hundred thousand a month before they tripled down their advertising budget in got better results because it was cheaper for myself. I started doing perfectly mentored live on facebook. The results are have been better than any podcasts ever put out because I understood attentions. Their people are there. Give them something. It's incredible because you saw that. And you had the foresight to see what was there, but that type of immense them to give to your clients, not only during the pandemic day make money whether able to help their clients, which came from you, but you think about how they scaled afterwards, and once it started opening up again and everybody. You know started getting out there. And, speaking a perfectly your mentor, it's the podcast blown me away. It really has between Tim Story who I absolutely love. I love listening to him. We aligned with our with our message You know the founder of Click Finals Russell Brunson which a lot of our listeners would know. You had the CEO of CHIAPPA fight. I mean huge bulletproof coffee. I mean here's a guy I love this because he's like me, he wants to live forever, but it's so diversified and to have Gary Banner Chuck's brand director on you don't look for one niche. Niche. You're looking to bring everything together and I think that that's what makes your podcast so amazing and why? I want to promote that podcast because my job again is to elevate others and bring the people on where other people can go, they can listen to and get that foresight. What is it like? How do you pick and choose because you have? There's so many different niches in there, but they all have one common element share that with us. What is it that you think about when you want to have a guest on whether? Whether or not to have them on, honestly, it's selfish. I started perfectly mentored. Because you know Gary Chalk. He was one of the first people on the podcast was on, because he told me to start a podcast and annoyed him. same thing with Damon Johnny Lloyd Him until he said you're not gonNA stop arguing I, said no, and he's like do twenty episodes I'll come up and that's the reason. Why started the podcast I wanted an hour with Gary and if I ask anyone for an hour of their time, they would say no, but I. I realized something very quickly. Few ask someone for an hour to pick their brain. No one's going to give you the our U. S. for half an hour to them. They'll give you an hour. Everyone likes talking about themselves, so just reframe the question. I don't WanNa. Pick your brain on the interview on an interview on my podcast and also mean people have time for you as they're being interviewed and guess what that interview is. I'm asking every question I would have asked if I had that. Pick your brain session with the exactly exactly. It turned into me so everyone's like well. How do you focus? What questions do you want from the listeners and everything and and I mean this I love the people who pay attention. Listen to the PODCAST. Think the reason why it's had the feedback. It's head is because I. don't really care what the Listeners Wanna ask your question. Don't mean anything and I'm asking questions that they all have, but no one's asking them. They don't have the weight. Ask them so every podcast I listen to these guys are the same the same question, same thing over and over and over I. Don't need that I'm interview. Be I! Know the answers that could just watch. Watch one in your youtube videos I. Don't need to ask it again so I asked question that you haven't answered yet or things that are important to things that I want to know and I realized that when I asked the questions I wanNA, know chances are people have the same exact questions as you and they want to know the exact same thing to and I think they're a bit more tactical, but perfectly. It was supposed to be a book I. Wanted To follow four people in four core areas of life around for a week, and then write a book on how I became a better business person or how I became a better person. person so the four business for like sales marketing mind, said and health and wellness, so I was gonNA fall a four top people around. No one's giving me a week of around realized that really early on like what's the next best thing? I'll interview everyone, and then it's really just how to become better. It's it's business, but I think most people focus on one thing, marketing or sales, or whatever to be a really good business. You have to encompass everything absolutely, and you know you brought up a really good point because to me everything out of conversation. Yes, I'm asking you questions, but we're having a conversation because we want our listeners to understand that. That we're real. We're authentic. We're not here to sell ourselves. We're here to show them ideas on how they can get out there and they can start building a business. They could start finding their passion finding that clarity, and that comes out of people like you and I just sharing our stories. My story is not your store your stories, not my story, but we have a common goal, and that common goal is to make everybody to elevate them, so they can turn around and elevate others and I think I think that's very important, and you know as a coach and as a speaker. You and I had a lot of conversations where I've said. Jason You just had too much knowledge and I. Don't say that in a way where you're the best thing since sliced bread. It's the way you deliver the knowledge. You deliver knowledge to to someone like myself. Who was tech illiterate? You coached me along the Tech Platform I'm tech illiterate, but yet whatever question I throw you. AH, Bam. You just came back with the answer. Where do you see yourself going into coaching space? Because I would love to see you be able to share that what you've shared with me and I've told you you should be sharing that with a lot more people. Where do you see yourself going with that? Yeah, so you know during the pandemic. Put out a post at the start of it saying I know a lot of businesses have been impacted or affected by this I'm GonNa Give Away Three coaching sessions, and our no pitch, nothing just few need help pivoting I. Think Marketing Online. If you need any questions, let's just call in and do. It ended up doing fifteen calls because I did the first three. AM absolutely loved. You know I run an agency. We have clients I love working with clients loved the agency work. Love with that's doing. Something about looking someone in the eyes and seeing them media impact that you're having on them and washing them grow and watch them yet. There and I fell in love with it, so I remember. We share similar mentors and coaches like Akbar for example and talking to be like absolutely love this like this great well, listen to yourself. And I was like okay cool. I'm going to start putting out more posts going to start putting out more content about helping people and people started reaching out to me. I'm like by the way if you're interested in doing this. I'm offering coaching. And because just starting in all this I don't even know what the charge, because I'm just trying to evaluate my time and but I love helping some trying to mix and match and see I still have to run an agency so I can't do everything, but let me put out a couple of feelers in and just charging I have a feeling end up charging more than this, but commonly. Took on a few coaching clients in and just love it. I absolutely love it. So where do I? See this I absolutely. Use that word a lot love the coaching space and the consulting space. I feel like I'm going to pull myself out of the agency. A lot more the agency doesn't need me to run it like so much on unlike a granular I still need to be there as a day to day co, but I think my time's going to be better spent helping other people who maybe can't afford. An agency or being need other areas aside from marketing in order to help the business on. To me, that's amazing. I mean me I like my coaching I coach people to get them on a path to freedom and happiness. There are a lot of people that are really stuck in life. They believe that the life they're living is the only life they can live you sharing your message you sharing your knowledge with these individuals WanNa grow that business. That's incredible. WHO's Your Idea Avatar for coaching? Such a good question. I'm still dialing that in right now. I think I'm learning a lot. By the people I'm talking to right now and seeing that not the right fit and I'm paying attention to a lot of people who aren't the right fit for are the right fit in order to craft it. I'm still learning of who that is at the moment, but I'm going to be truthfully on. I'm still trying to figure that out you know. I'm still in the attitude that I love. Love chatting with anyone so anyone who wants to anyone who wants to grow up I. WanNa have a conversation with you and see if I can help you. At the same time I'm completely transparent and honest. If I do not believe that could help you buy do not believe that could bring any value to you. I will not take one sent from you and the same way if I charge you and you don't think I'm adding value. Just tell me anytime I. Don't believe in being paid. Paid without delivering value, you know what you just said I. Think is fantastic because there look there are a lot of coaches out there who are not true coaches because they'll just coach coach. I tell people all the time I've been through a lot of stages in my life. My story I've been through a lot of pain I've been through a lot of suffering a lot of failures a lot of struggles if I haven't been through that stage and someone needs help their our for them to. To someone else who I know can help them. I'm not going to sit there and make believe. I took to me to be true coach. You've had to experience what others are going through. The growing pains look know there's three types of people in this world is the people who and I've done this through research, the amount of people there are people who just don't believe they can be helped. There are people who had gotten to that one stage where they will take that plunge or Or we'll take that risk, but the first failure of the first obstacle they hit. They revert right back to their comfort zone, and there's people like you who you're just. GonNa no matter what you're just gonNA. Keep going because the path is what you're after and to continuously stay on that journey, no failures gonNA stop you know obstacles in a stop. You know struggles gonNA. Stop you. You are going to keep going and I. Think it's very inspirational, and like I said the listeners right now hearing. Hearing it and hearing you talk and hearing you being so forthcoming invulnerable I think it's absolutely fantastic. So how do people reach Jason Portnoy people as there are going to need you? They're going to need you to help whether it's growing your business or whether it's coaching them on the right mindset in growing business. We know it's tough. We know entrepreneur suffer way suffer from depression her from loneliness whatever it may be. How do people reach out to Jason Port in order to get the help that? That you can provide I'm super accessible so across all social media channels I'm at chase important on instagram on twitter facebook I am Jason facebook.com Jason Deport. Media Dot Com you can find me and respond like people. I'm super. Super test focused. People were accessible to me so I always made a point to be accessible to others, but I think one of the things you just said is is super important about you. Know Your coaching career and something I really like about you in that. That I seen you that I'm trying to bring into myself as I think, outgrow coach. I think you get to a certain level. You know if you WANNA make six figures. You find a someone who's done it, but if you're going to someone who's done six figures in our learn how to make eight figures. It's always the time he can't coach. She can't cope. She can't coach You my goal because I'm a serial learner like you Michael. Is that I never want anyone to outgrow me? If I start with you and you're going from from five to six figures right, cool six, seven cool, but now I need to get to the next level, so that I could help you come with me to the next level, so we can keep this relationship going i. don't want anyone. I Yeah I believe in everything you said ethically handing someone off. If you don't believe you could help them, but I. don't WanNa hand anyone off. I want that journey together with people. So I think it's constantly bettering yourself like a see you doing a tremendous amount of respect for I appreciate that a you know the reason I say hand up there. There are some people who come to me and you know there'll be four or five stages where they're having true problems with which I can help them, but there's one that I have not been there so I don't coach from my head coach from my heart and my soul because the. The mind the heart and the soul have to be correlated for you to really be delivering the value. It's necessary and being vulnerables possible, and you know sharing my story is where it takes people when they share their story with me. I JUST WANNA. Make sure that that's the person I am going to be able to help to put on that path the freedom in happiness, so those are absolutely awesome points, and you know Jason I can't thank you enough for being on absolutely always a pleasure talking with you. I look forward to working with you a lot more. I think he'd be fantastic with the coaching You've already shown yourself. Yourself a successful and you know talking about constantly growing I mean I think people know I always. I always advertise it I by six new books every six weeks, and I go and search them out whether it's in mindset, health and Wellness Ju just read Books Psycho Cybernetics, and it is. We have to learn every day. We can't stop our growth, and that's another message that you know I. Want to get out to the listeners every single day. Listen PODCASTS, read books. Reach out to your mentor. I reach out to you and people would in our mentorship program and I ask. What would you do in this situation then I take. Take it and I? Try to apply it to myself and I think that's what makes this brotherhood and sisterhood of entrepreneurship so special because we're never going to let one another fall down like we're GONNA. Lean up against each other to make sure that we're all successful. Because if we're successful, we know how many people out there in the world we are making successful and putting them on the path of freedom. You're smart, Mario, so you're smart, because most entrepreneurs don't get that, you know it's predicated on. If you're successful, that means one less person to be successful in my because you took that successful spot, so we're running out of successful. Successful spots for people so Mary just got to meet ten million dollars Oh now I won't make ten million dollars, so they start heating on you and there's jealousy, and they don't root for you and they get offered their, and there's all these feelings, but the thing I learned is like there is a way more money out there than people realize there's way more success out there than people realize one person getting it right or wrong, you could like them them, but it has zero impact zero zero zero impact on your on your success. Absolutely I call them fraud preneurs and I call them for preneurs because they're out for themselves I don't. Don't believe any entrepreneur an entrepreneur suppose be changing the world. There's no way you could change the world if you're only changing yours. My goal I mean my dream, my passion, my purpose is to change as many lives as possible that includes entrepreneurs. The entrepreneurs reach out to me because their stock because they're lonely because they're you know as brilliant as they are. They're going to have those dark times. We're no different than the person working in a nine to five who wants to get at ninety five? Where the same person we have the same feelings, we have the same problems. The same struggles the same mental thoughts that go through our. Our heads and we have to fight every day, but it's the way we react to it. I mean I I remember you know it could be. We could go back five six years ago. When I hit a failure, an obstacle struggle, I reacted differently more so on the negative side now when it happens, I see as opportunity I embrace it and I accept it, and if I could just get more people to do that I, could take. We live in such a divided world, make it united world by bringing the people of Entrepreneurship that true entrepreneurs and I know who they are, I know the people around you who truly want to? To help who want support me? I know that if I helped them, they're going to turn around and help somebody else. And that's the ripple effect that we need in this world right now because we have to lift people up and we have to elevate others so again. My friend absolutely awesome. I mean just fantastic always talking to you, but to be able to have this conversation like we always have an allow the listeners to really so-called this in I think it's absolutely fantastic, and I know they got a lot of value out of what you had to say, so i WanNa thank you very much. I WANNA. Thank the listeners. And you know this episode of elevate others the movement. I have to say really fantastic and being able to do this with you was an absolute pleasure, and you bring a lot of joy into my life, and I know that if somebody to lean on your always there so I can't thank you enough for all the value adds at listens today. Me To thank you for everything you've done for me and for having me on here, so no thanks needed I mean I should be thanking you, so thank you for having and for our listeners, thank you again for listening to this episode of elevators, the Movement with Mario Race, and we look forward to seeing you guys next week. Have a great day, everybody. If you learned anything from this episode. To make sure you share with a friend. Leave Review and subscribe. You. Don't ever Miss Another episode of elevate others the Movement!

Daymond John Damon Damon John Gary Vena Chuck Fra twitter facebook Jason Portnoy York founder Damon John Dot Com John I instagram Jason Ayman John Side America NBC CBS Fox founder and CEO knicks Empire State Building
Big Blue Big Board: SB Nation NFL Writers' Mock, Pick 17

Big Blue View

28:11 min | 2 years ago

Big Blue Big Board: SB Nation NFL Writers' Mock, Pick 17

"Uh-huh. The big big board podcast. I am Dan position and joint here back. Chris phlegm? Chris how're you doing today? Well, good for now. We'll see how we're doing. After despite cats drops the good state. So here we're coming with another kind of bonus edition where we are diving into a breaking down what happened in the SP nation NFL writers mock draft, we gave you an episode for that earlier this week or last week. I don't even remember at this point one of those two you have listened to it where nation polls all their their team writers. They do a mock draft because the giants have two first round picks. We are doing this again. So Ed had these six overall pick like the giants do if you listened to that episode. You know, the giants picks Devon white linebacker out of LSU. We are back now for the seventeenth pick. And we will just update you very quick on. What has happened? To this point. So over the first six zero quick it was Zona with collar Murray San Francisco with Nick Bosa the jets Josh Allen Oakland with Williams Tampa Bay with at all over the giants. Ed took Devon white since then Jacksonville took twain Haskins seventh. The Detroit Lions took Brian burns edge from Florida state at eight buffalo to TJ Hopkinton tight end from Iowa at nine Denver. Took a true walk quarterback for Missouri at ten Cincinnati to Devin Bush linebacker from Michigan at eleven at twelve. Green Bay Montas wet edge, Mississippi State, thirteen Miami. One Taylor ofensive tackle from Florida. The fourteen Atlanta Falcons, Jona Williams ofensive tackle from Alabama. Fifteen Washington to clone feral edge from Clemson at sixteen. Carolina took Andre Dillard, authentic tackle. From Washington state. So at seventeen Ed had pick and took Reshad Gary edge from Michigan Brinkley. I'm insulted by this. I we have both talked several times about how the giants picking Rashawn Gary was almost a worse case scenario. It behind the scenes Ed had asked me a few times. He said he was leaning really hard toward staking, Gary. And I told him don't do it. Give him several other options that in my opinion would be in much better picks and he took airy anyway. So here we have talked about Gary few times. And he is interesting. It seems the NFL does like him he is super athletic. That is something you can see occasionally on tape. It's something that was tested and proven at the combine at Gary killed the combine he came in fourth in his edge class in spark. Again, just say what spark is every time. We bring it up. Although most of you probably know by now just a composite score of all the testing from the combined. In improv as Rashawn Gary came in be ninety fifth percentile among NFL, Ed rushers. He is a big, dude. Six four came in about two seventy seven between two seventy to eighty which is a bigger guy for the edge at Michigan. He played some edge. She played some and the interior that goes into his evaluation. But when we break down Gerry there is not a whole lot of production. And that's kind of the problem. And that's the disconnect on what Gary is as a prospect. So sports info solutions Gary head a pressure rate of twelve point five percent that is fifteenth among this draft class, which is now great going by just raw sadistics Yumi had three and a half sacks seven and a half tackles for loss. Only nine runs. Stuff's look at some of the other. Guys in the strap like Josh Allen had twenty four run. Stuff's colin. Farrell had twenty three O'Brien burnt had sixteen and a half a Brian birds had fourteen and a half tackles for loss. Farrell had nineteen and a half to wash Allen had twenty one and a half tackles for loss. So these guys who are getting way more production. And the disconnect for Gerry is as much as the athleticism is there and people like that in our trying to project that it just doesn't show up on the field. Yeah. And there's a couple reasons for that the I e he is ridiculous linear athlete like in a straight line. And this does show up on film. And it's basically his entire game out of the blocks. He is legitimately explosive. You showed that with four five eight forty thirty eight inch vertical jump ten foot broad jump. Those are all ridiculous numbers for a player his size promise. He. Has very little bend. And he can't corner. His three cone. Was a seven point two six which only lands him in the forty second percentile of edge rushers. Everything else is his broad jump at seventy six. Percentile vertical jump is ninety. I is forty yard dash was ninety four th percentile. So he just doesn't have that ability to turn the corner. Like the other guys do and also his hand usage is just not there. He his hands are basically blunt instruments and his pass rush plan is explode blocks either try to run past offense of tackle in which case he suddenly has to corner which he can't really do or just bull over them. And that didn't really work all that often. Yeah. It just he leaves you with with so much to be desired on the field. You just watch him, and you were rarely there's like a flash play, but just not nearly enough consistency for you to really be excited by what he brings. And it's a lot more projection and afford a team to draft dairy high. They're going to have to be very confident in their coaching and their development in order for him to be worth that high pick to football outsiders came out with their sexier projection, which is basically how just how they project et rushers. Gary came in as the number five, edge, rusher and similar historical. Prospects of for Gary were. Frank, lark. And Mark his hunt. Those are two very different players Francorp eventually did turn into pretty productive pass rusher for Seattle. And that might maybe give you some hope for Gary, but it took quite a little bit to develop into that role. And he was behind some pretty good pass rushers when he came in. So he was a third or fourth pass rusher at best when he started and now has turned into the number one guy after the the APRIL's and the Michael Bennett's weren't in Seattle anymore, but he turned into a good guy. Right as his rookie deal expired, and that second contract is is coming markets hunt was a super raw athletic guy, who never totally clicked. But he was also a second round pick. Never totally clicked in Cincinnati. He's gotten better. But is now in Indianapolis. It took him a second team too. To get there. So you of have to wonder how long it's would you take for Jerry? If you put him on the giants right now, he's going to have to be forced to start and be pushed into a pretty big role early. Just because the depth chart is his very bare. And then you have to wonder with Gary a question, I have with him is when do you stop calling a guy raw because that's that's the term that gets thrown around with these guys who don't totally have the technique to be consistent pass rushers on a play to play basis. And I think that's the case for Gary right now people are considering him raw in there's you can have this similar store cO prospects to a mortgage Hon I've seen some comparison. So like Ziggy Ansah who was similar coming out. But those are guys who were relatively new to football when they. They started playing in college research on Gary was like the top recruit when he was recruited to Michigan, and Gary has a long history of being this guy with upside. So for him to not have developed yet in college, and then you still kind of waiting for him to have to develop at the NFL level and wait for everything to you quick. And for his traits to match and catch up with his athleticism, and that is that would be very worrying for me. Yeah. Definitely ups Lutely and Lancer line at feld come made the NFL comparison to Ziggy Ansah. And again, basically said, you know, he's got all these traits. But he's lacking development, but Gary is not like Ziggy Otto who had just started playing football. When he. Went to BYU. He's not like JP who had just started playing football. I think the year before he went to south Florida and south Florida is not Michigan. Erie had was the top defensive player in New Jersey in twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen he was as you said the top recruit in the class twenty sixteen. He is not new to the game. And it's not like he got bad coaching at Michigan chase innovators anything, but raw and I would say he's two or three times the pass rusher. That Gary is at he doesn't have anything light Gary's tools, so for Gary to have experience at the position and all these tools, but no production is concerning. You figure he would at least have to out athlete college tackles more than three times. Yeah. That's one of the biggest concerns is that the. Athleticism didn't even translate. I think we talk about a guy like we've talked about quite a bit. Like, Ben Begnaud you from TCU. He I think he did a interview with pro football focus, and he he explained that when he was at TCU, they were very just scheme dependent didn't get a lot of positional coaching. So he didn't really learn a lot of pass rush moves, but he has that at the lettuces and that one against opposing offenses enough where he was able to create pressure. He was able to get to the quarterback and just rely on that athletes. Gary didn't even win enough with that athleticism. And you would think if he's a super athlete like that would take over occasionally. And it just didn't do that often enough. No. And I just brought up Gary's game. Log and he did not produce against the best competition half a tackle. A loss against Notre Dame. A tackle for loss and a sack western Michigan nothing against southern Methodist to tackles for loss against Nebraska, Anna sack, nothing northwestern nothing against Penn State half a tackle for a loss against Rutgers one and a half tackles for loss and weren't a half Sack's against Indiana and a tackle for loss against Ohio State. Yeah, there's a lot left to be desired game. And I think it will another part of it is we talked about tweeden's in. How that is more of a good thing. Now when you knew can play two things, but I think for for Gary, it's possibly tween her in in the negative sense. Where at around two eighty he wasn't really able to handle enough pass rush production from the edge. But he also wasn't able to hold up when he was placed on the interior at Michigan that he. Played occasionally. So it's going to be a balancing act in for any team to draft him highly. They're going to have to be very confident in their developmental plan and very confident in how they decide to use him and where they place him on the line because he hasn't really just shown the ability to win anywhere on the field consistently. No. And that was the other thing I said to Ed Ed wanted to get an edge rusher to basically, replace Libya Vernon and I told him I do not believe that John Gary is an edge. Just at all. I think he is pretty much locked into having to be a five technique or a three technique in nickel packages, which is. Basically what the Annapolis has done with mortgage hunt. But it like hunt. It will probably take him a while to just be able to do that and play on as an interior defensive linemen every down that it's an alien position things happen at a different speed. It's going to take a different type of strength yet. It is end end if you project him to edge, especially in giant scheme. No, I don't think it's difficult for a rusher. Who's used to having his hand in the ground to stand up, but Gary was lined up in three point stance. Ninety nine point one percent of the time for Michigan per sports Pollution's he rushed ninety seven percent of the time. So that's that's all he's going to do on pass nap is rush the passer. And I think when you look at how this this particular draft ended up I think this ended up being. At least at seventeen kind of worst case scenario for the giants. And then when you work reflect on it kind of makes me sad or even more on the Devon white pick. Because you have had one of those better pass rushers there at six and then try to figure out how to fill in round that at seventeen because you know, after Devon white goes, Brian burns goes at eight months waco's at twelve of feral goes at fifteen and then also the tackles where you could have also gone here. They all go in that span was John Taylor at thirteen Jody Williams of fourteen hundred Dillard at sixteen. So after the white paper you just trying to get a playmaker. Which is what Ed said he was doing the board does not fall in a way that made that pick. Now, look better afterward. And really if you're still sit on an edge. Then Gary is almost. Your only option at this point. But there are a couple of players where you could have gone elsewhere, and then maybe circled back to f-. And I think that's what I would have done in this situation. Gone for say a cornerback. I probably would have taken, greedy Williams here. Short up an outside corner debt that coverage better. And then maybe like doubled up in even the second or third bound or the second and fourth third and fourth and just taking multiple shots at athletic edge rushers who were productive. You know, you could take a swing in in the second or third where Ben Donahue even max Crosby out of eastern Michigan. He's a guy who had better much better pressure rate than Gary and was fifth in spark. You could have had like a Jordan braille for'de who is at of Oklahoma state. He had a thirteen point one percent pressure rate. So that was a. Better than Gary. And he was he was sixth in orders right behind Crosby and Gary. So I think that probably could have been a better overall away to attack this if it if the board came down to this way, try to assure up the secondary have better coverage. Take the pressure off that edge rush little bit. And then take a multiple swings at address later in the draft yet. Definitely I like that strategy. I had actually recommend Byron Murphy the corner out of Washington. I'm a little bit higher on Murphy than greedy Williams. But I think that. I think if you have the with the right scheming, you could you almost can't go wrong there than in the second round may be get a guy like Zack Allen out of Boston polish or Charles knee who out of Texas. And then again like you said down the draft. You get headband you just in Holland out of Oregon, Christian Miller out of Alabama. There are a lot of different ways could have gone and. Probably gotten better value with a much much much lower chance of a bust happening and just to play what if at could've taken Brian burns or Montas sweat or even Colin Farrell at six overall that would have kept Devon white on the board. Who if Cincinnati wanted linebacker? They probably would have picked him and that could have dropped Devon Bush to seventeenth overall. And honestly, I I am ninety nine percent. Sure. At this point that I'm going to have Devon bushes. My LB one, and I think he fits better in the giants defense. He's a more instinctive player, and a better athlete than Devon white to me that would have been a much better way to go. I also probably would have looked seriously at a bradberry that centered NC state and just really shown up the middle of the offense of line. Yeah. That's a possibility. I still. I think I probably would have gone corner. I think greedy, I think probably would have been the best overall and most impactful pick their, but yet this is now just kind of an exercise in seeing what it can happen depending on where the giants go at six, and if they do want that edge rusher because pass rushers are going to be valuable in. There are going to be a lot of teams trying to grab pass rushers. They pass it on at six and their on air. Don't really get someone who can rush the passer like I've in gossip pursued. I suggested taking all of her is there over you put him on the defensive line. He's still going to be able to rush the passer. I know we said Devon white Cam wits but still that was only like twenty four percent of his pass naps. You want someone doing much more than that? If you are trying to. Disrupt the quarterback. So if pass there at six which in reality, it does not appear they are going to. But if they do in the do something like take a Devon white or just any anyone else? Besides pets rusher in with how the draft balls. There might not be anyone worthy at at seventeen. And that's the dilemma the giants are going to have. There is a decent amount of top tier talent here. But there's going to be a lot of teams looking at that same top to your talent. So even with three quarterbacks dawn, there's there's that run on the edge rushers and the offensive tackles. And that's really where the giants are the weakest on the Rosser right now, they have plenty of host to fill. So if you do get someone like Devon white innovation dairy, those are those are feeling. Holes so pretty much anyone the giants going to draft. It's probably going to play a significant role in twenty nine thousand nine just because of how the roster is set up. A but do you have a super high bus potential right now with the six of bro? Pick just being an off ball linebacker. Whether he's going to be able to produce where the of the six overall pick and high bust potential in the seventeenth pick of a super athletic guy who just has not been able to put his development together for production. So for a draft that kind of needs to set the giants up for the next couple years. That's that's a pretty alarming way to do it. It is we have said a few times and has said that this draft basically needs to be a home run for the giants. They have a lot of holes to fill and frankly, a lot of a lot of those holes they made themselves they could have gotten away with adding maybe a later round day two or very early three pass rusher if they kept a Laverne him. But now they don't have a proven pass rusher on the roster to just picking players who definitely pass the eye test. But have that bust potential? It's it is a big risk. Yeah. It is a no no prospects or are one hundred percent certainty. There's potential with literally everyone and even guys like as someone like, hey, Margus hunt was a bus at one point. And then kind of circle back and became a productive player in that's for another teams. So there's a potential for the. Development to be there. But for the giants right now when they have to be building a core of what is going to come over the next couple years. And that's what they have shaped this draft to become also almost has to become it because of what they have done on the NFL roster right now. And you don't wanna go to safe, and I'm not sure if that's even possible where you're limiting upside because you're too scared to bust, and I almost think that's kind of what they talk themselves into with quarterback last year and possibly with quarterback this year. But just in this case, those are two very risky picks. And and you really have to be confident in in how you are going to develop and deploy those players of for that to work out and be a what sets up defense for the long-term. Yeah. I I'm not sure how much more there is to add. We've covered ready much everything. Yeah. I think so I think it's just it's a good look of what could potentially happen. If the giants go defense defense with these two picks, depending on the players and the position I'm not even sure if they hit it out of the ballpark on those two picks. Hell good. The defense is going to be based on how many holes there still are on that roster. So it's definitely going to be just an interesting exercise of how this Rosser is going to continue to be built, especially when they are still things in place where they are trying to steal win as many games as they can they have not fully committed to a rebuilt. So there are still enough places where they are saying they're trying to compete. So how these two draft picks go is going to greatly influence that so we will be back on Monday talking. Some actual news. We're going to break out throwing shepherd deal on Monday, hopefully between now and then the actual details of that contractor went to come out. So we have a better idea of what the actual contract looks like and what that outlook is we're just going to wait for the entire deal to out before we really break that down and what it means for the giants shepherd and the offense and everything that goes around that. So you can find this podcast wherever you get your podcast. He's written a view if you have not that helped us out, greatly, info or work on view dot com. Fo review on Twitter at big blue view you follow big view on Instagram at big underscored underscore review. Follow me on Twitter at Dan possessor Cathal, Chris on Twitter at raptor K. I thank you for listening. And we will talk to you again. Hello. It's me Ashleigh Carmen nine Caitlyn too. And we are the hosts of the virgin podcast. Why'd you push that button. It's a show that asked hard weird occasionally dumb questions about how your tiny tech decisions impact your social life. So we're asking questions like how do you choose your skin tone emoji? And why do you delete your tweets every episode? We talked to both users and experts to get to the bottom of these questions that were confronted with every day. Check it out scribe too wide you push that button on apple podcasts, Stitcher Spotify or anywhere else. You love to podcasts. My name is Spencer hall by name is Jason Kerr. My name is Ryan nanny, we combined. We form the shutdown full stride. Keep telling you novel from the set now focused technically college football podcast. But it's also a show about on care disaster regional grocery stores. We live Tennessee Batman homeowners associations bears in video games. Pittsburgh Batman the hell of being transferred a group, text unreliable legal advice. 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Rep. John Garamendi & Malcolm Nance "The technical term is insurrection"

Stephanie Miller's Happy Hour Podcast

38:03 min | 8 months ago

Rep. John Garamendi & Malcolm Nance "The technical term is insurrection"

"Yeah fucking happy. Hour everybody it's typhoid mary and the typhoid twins crystal boy. This we're soldiering on so are happy hours for right now. They're going to be us saying suck a lot talking about the fucking week that we just had that we can't say fuck on the show about it then some highlights from our regular parking show. Yes because we all have to be remote because we mentioned we all have called bowls. Yeah doesn't it happens. Yeah so right so we. We are a all doing the show remotely so obviously happy hour. No one's been able to come near us for months and now nobody can literally. We are all the boys and girls in plastic bubbles. Now we're going to infect them facetime. I would like. I would like to roll out onto the beach in my bubble and kiss someone through that plastic like john travolta did in in that c-. Oh me too fantastic. Yeah i would twenty contained. Who am i thinking of the hot girl. That could someone's real bubble thinking. I'll think of it i don't know talking or are you talking about the the jig jillian hall movie bubble boy. Oh that could be what i'm talking about. Critics say participate to say. It's a cream works experiencing sedition insurrection on top of a pandemic in your me actually house govan one in three people in los angeles have covert and one two people on the stephanie miller. Show staff have copen. So we're doing our part numbers up greg right but we've been talking. All the bodies. Leaking out of our asked does not. We have for your happy hour. Pleasure this week of representative. John gary mendy. We have someone that was fucking. They're the one of the people on the phone. Maybe calling their family to say goodbye. That's hearing rioters. That's hearing gunshots. We have right someone who was there. We had malcolm nance who. Obviously everybody is talking to on. Tv in terms of being terrified about what. The fuck is going to happen for the inauguration. I'm more nervous than you guys are. But i'm fucking nervous about this inauguration like it's i get they're trying to root out in a white supremacist and people that were involved in the military and the police. But guess what. It's fucking wednesday. It's in five days. I'm i i've been during the show. I wonder i have news on. So i can see what's going on looking at these scenes of troops and military patrols around washington. Dc looks like something. Out of like an apocalyptic film. It's like the town is deserted. All your military vehicles. They were cutting state capitals. Were they're putting up chain link fence around the capital buildings. Donald trump has done until america joins us. This is the america that he's left us talking about work to do we. We just you know in god. Bless joe biden. Oh my god it was so boring. I just saw best sleep. I've had in a while. I was like oh slam. That's actually going to work. It's going to help people and others details and competences. How was it only thank you. That happened this week so initially called. We have joanne morley called. Because you know lily. Tomlin called in comedy airstrike and seventy miller joanne. Worley calling you lily. Tomlin just called me and said that you wanted to use that travis and then over the next four years ago bored boredom i couldn't use it. I mean god. Seriously i apologize. I've said fuck way too many times. I've been holding in it. I don't even have my box up here. Can't even have my box. And so i just. I'm sorry fucked could be honky Cock sucker. My point is off my box next week though this is going to be simulated fifteen years the next five days right. It's just so harrowing John fagel says it's going to be the last days of nixon meets the blessed seen scarface. I mean chase us. What is it. I just you know. There's gonna be a big finale and terrified. I mean we've we've got the intelligence point to this sunday the seventeenth hugh day so. That was the day that they were saying that they were going to be protests. Also taking consideration that. Monday's luther king day if they're wanting a race war that one day for them. Yeah do something. So i think Sunday monday are going to be too. Perilous stays past business and twenty. Twenty-nine got coleman so. I can't smell shift of the actual shit that they should over our capital and our democracy and can't smell shan't iago of shit travis article taste or smell it so just enjoy it enjoy representative john carroll many malcolm nance insist have a fucking happy happy hour america. Impeached did make some history this week. Twice and fees visit good dirty Happy hour seventy miles per hour. Do not turkey dirty. A bad dirty bacteria virus which is why the new deal shop dot com exists to clean up your dirty dirty little life. it's Listen you can get the clean bone wand you can get the clean phone griots. You can disinfect your phone all your small objects with the union or the clean vol one is the battery lasts forever and you can take it with you everywhere and everything. Keep it in the little side pocket in the door of your car and and you could just want everything like if you go through a drive through wanda little bag. You have no idea what those right i do. Packages and amazon stuff and the groceries and tablet. it writes everything Take that sucker with you. And right now. They have the real deal k. And ninety five respirator masks. Were finding out. There is a difference in what kind of mass we're gonna is. We're gonna have to strap in man we're going to be in this for a while right now. The new deal shop has fda authorized and ninety. Five respirator masks. The real deal anti labeling. They are attested right here. In the us of a and they are in stock they should for free the new deal of dot com. You verified authenticated fda authorizes paying ninety five immediately to your home or business. Then you deal shop dot com. Get it like the new deal. The freight did the whatever dot com. All right a lot to get to our as we speak obviously on the floor debating impeachment in just a little bit breaking news. We can talk to the congressman about this but Jason crowe was on cnn this morning. And he said they're looking at options for censoring impossibly motion for merger taylor green promoting conspiracy theories. Good good. that would be the in on congress the also featured refusing to wear a mask and also one of the people i believe probably freaking out about having to go through a metal detector. Do the kids have to do to get into school. And that we have to get on the plane and the they after the capital was overrun by lunatics. They objected to having to go through a metal. I'm yes because freedoms in stock right yes by okay Our friend representative john. Candy joins us now on a very very busy day in. We appreciate it. Hey representative her screwed to be with you. Stephanie sounds like you've got a small riot going on your side. Oh it's just called the morning show so goffin's speaking of grace state of california. We've got two of our own representing eric swallow and ted lieu around the house impeachment managers this time around so Yeah california right well. it's it is a very necessary responsibly. They have and carry it out in good form and order other tragedy. Is that we. We're here to do this again for a very very important reason. Obviously it's the president. We've had four years of it and finally. It has broken out in full on insurrection. So we have to do our duty to protect the love from that. I'm sorry starting with the delay representative yet. Don't you love how they seem to make like. This is fun for us. Like anybody wants to impeach this president twice I mean it just in there. He is again as usual Taking no responsibility asked for the hundredth time for the hundred impeachable offense. Do you take any responsibility. No of course not. It was a perfect stateman. Everybody says it was a you know which is. Obviously i mean at this point. I think it's a danger to even play his comments in any form don't you oh absolutely Danger that he is created for four years and recently with the call to his supporters come to washington. It's going to be wild. He spent a month and a half rallying his troops telling to come to washington forty thousand or more and then assembled on the south lawn of the capitol the clips he then incited them to mob violence to attack the capital to stop the constitutional process of certifying. The election plain and simple. It was an insurrection. There was an attempted coup It re- and people died. A congress was the capital of the citadel. Symbol of our democracy around the world was Invaded stormed trashed and the police and others beaten with american flags of all. Thanks my aunt. The thing that among the many things that disturbed me several of them tore down the american flag and put up the trump like. Yeah that was that was ever presented. I've been saying that all week. That was the that was emerge. That the jarred nathan. My head is them. You saw the american flag going down. The trunk flag being raised exactly So we have to take action to do nothing and many of our republican colleagues are my friends and i'm going. Don't you guys understand. Don't you understand what what is it. Riskier this is the democracy and and don't tell me we're going to divide the country further which is basically this there Talking points on the floor is all. We're going to divide the country. Not trump has been four years dividing four five years. If you count the campaigns five years dividing the country He specialized in that. And if you wanna bring this country back together again a deal with the bully if you don't if you let a bully continue to bully you you're gonna find yourself forever more on the ground You'll learn exactly right. You're exactly right. They the argument is don't let's not make the bullies any matter and i. That's not how we do it. In america. you said it. Best representative on twitter. You said these events are a dark stain on our nation's history. We must act quickly to protect the future of our democracy. We can't we have to draw a line in the sand historic with. This is just not okay that no we do not just move on from this in america do we well. We're going to edge on the granite stones of this capital that a president can take any action to stop the third the first branch of government. The congressmen doing its constitutional responsibilities. That's what we're going to act not a line in the sand but looking to etch onto granted that the president of the united states cannot incite a mob to override the constitutional duties and obligations of it first branch of government the branch that people the house of representatives and the senate. So it's not a line in the sand. That's what we're gonna do today. We're going to impeach this president and what we're finding is that republicans are coming to their senses understanding the Of not trying the president successfully in the senate carrying out the indictment the house will put for today and the trial i believe will ultimately be successful in the senate and this man will be forever. More prohibited from any office in the united states. Thank you and represented isn't it. Isn't it a testament to you know to real courage and leadership that you guys just went ahead with this. Even he'll never get convicted in the senate. We'll look what's happening now. Look what's happening now. Because democrats showed courage and you know Moved forward with this Who cares at this point why. I'm sure you never thought you would hear liz. Cheney say there has never been a greater betrayal by president of the united states of his office and his oath to the constitution She told members of her caucus. The impeachment vote will be about a conscience on in that she is in leadership. This actually is a big deal. Mitch mcconnell doing it for his own purposes sang it will make it easier to purge trump from his party who he blames for losing senate which is true at this point representative who cares white. People join us for their own. Self interest or america's self interest. It is a obviously becoming bipartisan. Though isn't it well definitely is. I'm not surprised and cheney we've worked very very closely on your services for four. I almost six years now and She's she is a Straight arrow she. She knows right from wrong. She knows what the constitution isn't she's acting on it and whatever reasons the senate is coming along i think. Republicans are tired of being badgered retired of being of living in fear that a tweet will come out in the morning and terminate their career and They know actually more than the democrats. The the totalitarian dictatorship tendencies of the trump. Because they've lived with it. They've suffered under and i hundred inclusion. They can they can do away with it. They could put because they were they. Were in those rooms with you under the threat from the exact same mob represented. Where were you during this. And what was it like well. Because of covid a limited number of members of both democrats and republicans were allowed in the chamber. At one time. I was in the second group And i was preparing to come to the floor when all hell up and never got past my office so over in the house office buildings so i didn't get to the floor. I count myself fortunate. That i was not among my colleagues who terrorized Who were at serious physical risk and serious risk of death But nonetheless of us whether we were on the floor or not live through a very traumatic situation where we were targeted. The vice president was targeted. Certainly the speaker was targeted. The number one and two people in line to succeed the president Had they succeeded and they were they. This mob was attempting to get to both the vice president and the speaker to end the line of succession. This comes right out of Out of the history of Kings and queens where they did everything they could to terminate the succession. So here we are here. We are with An opportunity to stand up for america to stand up for democracy to make it clear that the president cannot incite bob to Overcome the constitutional responsibilities of the congress of the united states and so we will impeach him today. And i believe in the next two three weeks or perhaps laundering the future donald john trump will be convicted by the senate and barred from any public office in the future. He will lose his pension. he will lose his Secret service Protection details and he will be forever shamed in the history of america by the way. Thank you You tweeted exhorting. My friend and colleague representative paul on supporting w dangles bill to find representatives confused to wear masks in the capitol representative. I was saying earlier on the show. I don't think i've ever been so mad. Watching that. footage other republicans smirking laughing and refusing masks when while trapped with their colleagues during this mob. Riots and now three of your colleagues have coverted. I it is i mean. Donald trump has made this whole party in some ways. Just awful and selfish. I'm sorry i don't know how else to put it. Refusing to go through metal detectors refusing to wear masks It just i just party. I does need to be purged of some of these people Particularly the ones that helped incite this riot was certainly there are You know. I have this vision. Every time i think about what went on in the trump rally have this vision of mo brooks of alabama standing there before that audience rallying them inciting them. And then saying we've gotta go kick ass Well the asked. That needs to be kicked. His out of the congress of the united states clearly was inciting insurrection and slowly moved from the congress of the united states. There are a couple of others that are on the edge with regard to the rally to with regard to mask wearing. I mean how stupid. How stupid can you be not now because it is raging everywhere and then a mask. We'll help keep you safe and keep somebody else. If factor infected and it's it's it's a total irresponsibility and stupidity But hey maybe that's what they are irresponsible stupid. Yeah well representative. Thanks for fighting the good fight for us out here in california just for the nation in general. It's a you guys will be recorded in history as the good guys and we thank you for your service. Well thank you for Making all of these issues Available to the public knowledge now youtube. Thanks representative you know kids. I know they say this. Presidency is the only one that has not really aged the president. He's the same orange monster he always was. It's aged us though. It's all of us so we need tools to combat it and we have flexible wing. And because i'm sorry we like the new yorkers but the as we say on the west coast or as they said. Because i i'm just saying i it's aged now. We're living through an insurrection. We're still an endemic rights. Do you have your own different personal. Wtn face i do now. I i can't. I know what you have. The islet really can't even anymore face. A hunter can take all of that. Writes even when you smile when you feel. Hope you're like oh crow's-feet now wrinkles under eye bags crows feet. I'm telling you the pictures of the tv commercials you see. They're actually not lou. They're real totally real. I every morning. I look in the mirror. Unlike all i'm jay. I think this works in like a minute or something. I do it right under my eyes. And there you go. I still get the you look you know. They may have inched up from thirty five on twitter. Uptake it try it. See what i'm talking about. Six application trial pack. Only fourteen. Ninety five free shipping. Go to be you y. P. lx dot com slash voices or. Call them at eight hundred six eight five one two nine to say the code voices free shipping thirty day money back guarantee. You've got nothing to lose graded wrinkles fine lines and under eye bags. That is being a y. P. l. x. dot com slash voices or eight hundred. Six eight five one two nine two and the code voices at checkout. Good morning. Welcome those getting ready for your congressional testimony. Of course on i would assume subject is terrorism but specifically white supremacy terrorism. Well i think the technical term that we're gonna be using. Today is insurrection. Yes in now. Missed and believe me. I have a lot to say about it. Because as i will announce on the stephanie miller show. I wrote a book about this over the last six months. And i will give you the working title. The working title was they want to kill americans. Thank you all to line up once at once. One at a time and kiss malcolm nance's ass for being right about everything and and and trying to sound the alarm. Knock everything you've talked about. I mean and again they don't know exactly what you're going to say the black congressional caucus here in a few minutes but first of all why. Why was the head of the fbi or the acting. Attorney general out at this press conference yesterday. What did you think of this this press conference. I actually prefer that it was done that way. Bring the eye of sour on over to You know to To to find out as they go to destroy the ring You know just send them some low level minions make it look like at street level arrests but in fact they are laying the groundwork for sedition seditionists conspiracy and based on what the us said donald trump junior's whole family or donald trump's whole family. Every person who spoke at that rally help organize that rally including people like charlie kirk who eighty buses to go up there still point in here yesterday. We played the audio sebastian gorka yesterday. Charlie kirks event two weeks ago right outlined the event. And that's where. Charlie was recruiting people to come to this call so a subset land into coup. They had a plan to throw this into the states to actually just give certain to subvert democracy malcolm and so yesterday you're right the wording they as the fbi is working with us attorneys offices across the country. Crux of those being in dc will get significant felony cases tied to sedition and conspiracy. So that wording. And i think other wording they use your right does go to. This is going up higher. Fry. it is and let me tell you there as you know. I monitor right wing Communications and their organizational host communication channels their structures and i started writing this book six months ago and i swore i'd never want to write another trump book But i felt that. I had to write this particular book because it was about how they were turning into not just a some of them as terrorists upcoming coming they were creating an insurgency a political insurgency and a paramilitary insurgency. And in fact. I wrote that You know That if button had lost the proud boys the oath keepers the blue always they would have become an unofficial of paramilitary of the trump campaign. They would have become the brown shirts. But now that biden has one they are going underground. They are sort of like saddam hussein's insurgents the saddam fedayeen at some point. Here and the reason that i've shied away from the use of the word terrorist though feel free to use it as rhetorically as possible if you feel you were terrorized and that i've stuck to insurrectionist was the attack last week. Right after the stephanie miller. Show where we talked about. This was in insurrection in uprising. A violent uprising against the united states. Where they're moving to now is a long term war round war against the united states and that's an insurgency and what's gonna come at insurgency as a political arm where trump in all of his minions keep trying to destabilise de-legitimize the biden administration then paramilitary action and mob action and finally and most likely quickly terrorist attacks by local. My said this yesterday is we. This is obviously a critical terrifying period and the inauguration being a particular target. But i said we're going to deal with this long after that. But i i heard you on. Tv joy reed s. Yesterday i mean a lot of us are saying why not what this totally inside. Why not make it totally virtual. I mean i. I keep saying i get like oh. We can't make it look like we're scared of terrorist like counterpoint. Who cares i. You seem to say that you were confidence. Even though we obviously there were elements of military and police. Were involved in this Insurrection tell us. Your feelings about about the inauguration. Obviously the fbi is warning about a wild things is warning allowed a lot of things they discovered discuss some of the terrorist tactics. One of the things they i haven't heard about is the potential of indirect fire. Which is what we call mortars. It's propane tanks that'll be lobbed in there just as distractions and guard against everything. But i feel very confident. Now that You know to that the capital will be secure. It'll be event free thing of. Oh i've read that. There are seventeen pro-trump groups that are putting permit applications. They are blanket. Lee all being denied. And i'm going to be having a discussion with the the mayor of washington. Dc browser soon to be governor. Muriel bowser i hope. I hope ya and we're going to be discussing security of there so it's pretty secure in this city right now however i just want to give a warning out to our rattling extremists friends. Many who monitored the stephanie miller show while they're crying in their cups. You know there was an analogy. That admiral yamamoto the commander of japanese forces made when he attacked pearl harbor and all of his battle. Commanders are just exuberant. And we're ready for the next fight and yamamoto said all we have done here was awaken a sleeping giant. Yeah that is what these right-wingers have done. If you've watched videos people are shutting them down at the airport sharing when they're being kicked off of airplanes shaming them psychologically damaging them by calling them terrorists in vanilla. Isis is how you can all contribute to the recalibration of this. They are an hour. One-step step closer to secessionist. So now i have a distinct feeling what it must have been like in philadelphia after the south tried to break away but these people are living amongst us. They are in every society there there. Probably some of your neighbors stephanie. Even family you know or on that lane live on you know. These are the people who defiantly still have the trump signs outside. Stop this deal sides. They need to be brought to account if they wrote. They supported it and we talked to frank. Lenzi yesterday You know we've obviously talked about the need. For domestic terrorism laws on a but extremes are using channels on the encrypted communication act telegram now to go for violence against government officials on inauguration. Day with some extreme assuring knowledge of how to make conceal and us homemade guns and bombs. I i'm not telling you. I know. I'm just telling our listeners. The messages are being posted in telegram. Chat rooms where white supremacist contents has been freely. Shared for months chatter on these channels has increased since obviously they've been kicked off of other platforms. So this is a dubai based service that does little moderation of its content. So you know. Frank talked about like part of this going underground now. We can't monitor as closely right. Yes enough and franson. Fbi counterintelligence guy an nsa signals intelligence guy so for me. Would i prefer what we call channelization of enemy command and control and that's where you knocked. Dow all their little news like parlor and twitter and you move them to one on channel where they think. There's secur- okay. As now i love monitoring people because yeah not lie when they communicate with each other generally when they're posing stuff. They think that they have a secure vehicle to plot conspiracy. The fbi might want to inform them. That telegram is a foreign national based platform which the government has the right to monitor at any time. Even if they're american citizens on there they can get warrants and will be essentially a kolding and for all these people that are going to get arrested and they'll come as you are a terrifying on twitter form as well. You said forward extremist views or using the capital attack to recruit new members and you said evidence is revealing that murder cells in capturing kill teams. Were in that mob. They're wanting politicians. It talked to us about that for a minute. Really think we need to popularize the phrase murder cells okay. Murder cell is a terrorist organization or body of people who flow in with mobs or the street or whatever is happening and they are an organized team who will go in there and look for victims victims capture and kill teams or the same thing. You know these guys. This mob went in there they had zip ties. They had all of their military equipment by the way. These were the proud boys. The boo-boys oath keepers by the hundreds repair. Their oath keepers shirts. All of these people are paramilitaries and they intended to kidnap capture and kill many of the members of congress it would have been a bloodbath and it would have been a bloodbath. Because dan capitol hill police would have had to have gone to full-scale open warfare which means everybody off hundreds. So some of some of this. We can count on their stupidity. Tweeted alexander is investing to planning the attack on the us and naming his co-conspirators. Some of whom were congresspeople right. I mean these people so stupid. Because they're proud of what they did. olly alexander. is this alexander otmar. I think his name is far east as right wing extremists And he was there. He had said that he had met and was communicating with three congress. Many name them all in a video. Facebook post out there and now i just carbon copied into the fbi with everybody else. I mean this the way he's been hiding. Yeah yeah i know as all. Cowards are so speaking of the fbi so obviously this story the day before the riot riot. The fbi office in virginia issued an explicit internal warning that extremists replant preparing to travel to washington to commit violence and war. This is an internal document right. The washington post gothic contradicts them saying they had no intelligence indicating any pro-trump protests planned to do harm a situational information report. You know what that is approved for release the day before the. Us capitol riot painted a dire portrait of dangerous plans including individuals. Sharing a map of the complex is tunnels possible rally points for conspirators to meet right. We read this. This read. that said be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass laking doors being kicked in blood from their blm and antifa slave soldiers being spilled get stop calling it a march or rally or protest go. They're ready for war. We get our president or we die what we're gonna find out about it. I mean there's a lot of cover your ass going on right now right about who warned about what what s happened here. One thing about intelligence we can develop it we can collected we can disseminate it. But as the old cia saying is you can develop intel. But you can't you can't make them think we give to the consumer. Unfortunately the consumer was the person who was leading the insurrection. Yeah so if five. There was limited security at the capitol. It was just a regular day watch. Normally they would have all three watch. Sections there twenty three hundred tops fifty day just agents stage near the capital. The work deployed in time to to help. They were just waiting there. Well you know a lot of that happens when you think. White people are benign and that this is the president's supporters and they are no different than in iowa high school tour group. How you see it. It's been exposed. You have your insurrectionist. These are the enemies of the united states. Now shame when you see them. Now go home and go long but you have said and i heard you say it again yesterday on. Tv the military will not be involved in this The joint chiefs on obviously reminded american forces yesterday oath to defend the constitution and use some pretty strong language about it. So you remain confident about that. Correct that letter yesterday will become one of the most historic documents in us. Military district equal to george washington. Maybe a little less but similar to george washington's newburgh address when he stopped the army from rebelling in the american revolution. That was a call to arms my favorite part. He says we stand against insurrectionist and sedition fam-. Okay just put it on the table. Y'all they ain't gonna stand for this all right you heard alongside your second priority congress. Now go testify to congress. Thank you for your number one priority. Loved you out for happy hour but Listen kids you can't. We cannot tell you enough to be safe. We travis and i all got covid just being trying to be really really saving. It is going to be with us for a while. We're in a brutal epicenter out here in california. There are new strains rights. Ms more contagious. You've got to get all your tools. You gotta get you clean phone. You clean bowled wind your k. And ninety five respirator masks your hand sanitizer. They have it all at the new deal shop dot com and at one of the things. We're learning right. We're new at this. We've we've got a free telehealth with after doom every week but you you made. You can't do that so listen to us. You need the real masks whereas running some master better than others and the the new deal shop has the fda authorize k and ninety. Five masks with anti-fraud laboring every single package. You can check it right out verified on the website. They are tested right here in the us. They provide the most significant level of protection. If you're going anywhere. We don't right. Chris we you don't kind of gotten it at a supermarket at a gas station. I could've gotten at a shop. I could have gotten at the airport. I don't know it's a the point. Is you have got to get the real deal masks if you're going out anywhere. The new deal shop verified authenticated. Fda authorize can ninety five masks. Do it now and trying to panic you now. The top dot com the new deal south dot com.

Us malcolm nance senate donald trump stephanie miller congress Tomlin jillian hall copen John gary mendy joanne morley miller joanne John fagel washington Jason crowe taylor green representative john goffin fbi
Inside Supercars - Show 350 - Dylan O'Keeffe

Inside Supercars

22:31 min | Last month

Inside Supercars - Show 350 - Dylan O'Keeffe

"Savings starts with internet and wireless from xfinity because when you get xfinity internet and add mobile you can save up to four hundred dollars. A year on wireless enjoy fast. Reliable internet at home and nationwide five g. on the go included at no extra cost get expanding internet and mobile together and ask how to get an eligible five g. phone on us and for a limited time three hundred dollars back. Don't miss out go to expanding dot com slash start saving. Call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store today. Restrictions apply saving space on optimize pricing. Actual savings may vary. Todays nine twin. One with the girls turns into a bottle. But you need your brunch. The next day then pick up or fraud. I worked drinks. Were you done with a lady cao with expensive tools at the pub. This pickup miss out on the fun. Get a pickup simply book on our app. And we'll pick you up to drive you and your car harm to drivers arrive. One drives you home in your car. And the other driver follows. Download the pickup at today. That's pk up and wake up. Worry-free jacob rockpile david reynolds. You're listening to inside. Sue because from the rice treks across the strahl yet he is inside a welcome doing tippecanoe johnny talking pragnell. We're joined by a man who's coming back back and coming back to because case. Welcome back to great dave in another drive now. It is tried to get a second shot at the bathurst. One thousand lage really Excited and Yeah it was a great chance to get my debut shot at last year. Greg college underarm gotten. I'm thought with that said that she is different. Urine in she. The second seat we Jacobson cassini really on greg for that opportunity from them and looking forward to use strength from last year and capitalize on by a. You're gonna get a tick night beforehand. But it must be fortunate because it's gone that them you obviously know gary john iowan came a little bit. You'd be looking forward to an opportunity to at least spend the rights weekend with them. Yeah greg domain with what's happening now shows a bit of moving parts hoop planetary united a few days and days and be really bad for Obviously the ri- during the preparation Especially from mexico. So would have said that. I was fortunate enough at towns though. I spend a lotta time with the change in garbage and you know a few things like that. The familiar faces and build up in connection with john gary in particular looking forward to yeah having a rice lake with them. We don't sell yourself. Hey i know is going to be cranking up again soon. I think they're saying down. Meeting in september lined up. Yeah correct. I mean and toffee first because You know we rise on a reduced calendar and todd to get the rounds in now with a few of the k. teams main situated in sydney. We are aiming to rice mid-september however you know we won't have any of these south wales. I think it's a bit unlikely. We'll go ahead. But i really hope it does because in particular with mikei australia we had a few problems getting the now It looks like we've kept. We've made the car and fixed a few of the monitor or shoes. I'm looking forward to getting back the series as well. Now we spike. I would've made it basketball. Marimba traveling device simmons binds. And you know you drive. I think you had display rice's it goes that correct. Yeah that is correct. But some as well and i was just more of a demonstration in the navy next season we'll be able to do a championship round the track. I say the rice meeting at taco before baynes of the track. It's a wonderful amphitheater. Or something like he'd never write that imagine. Yeah correct odd. Never seen until. I there Burying garrett was a table of tasmania and began. Because my support down there but really Talked to track forgot there. And i wasn't sure what to expect it the trash Got a little bit of everything. Some harris corners and Quite treat a up together especially in from but I remember when they had been much fear. Isis from up on the hill. And it's amazing. The view you get just looking at on the track like as a Fan of viewing spectacular. It's one track. He got to rice at in australia. But before that you are rising and you had the opportunity to do at least one round of the tci. The season the world championship correct So that was another good thing the from boss. Ya was difficult not doing much pricings. Try getting along quite. Why would the guy that Ministered in our arbor in switzerland and mo- talking back and forth and when moving district lockdown in victoria. Thought you know what There's not cheating and get out of there and he told me the best in In waco too. So i thought this is my chance to get out of the tested. Them and Going to do in The first rights of the season for them which was at circuited soda in. Nah that was fantastic. Opportunity in one now Grossly but still something to go back and possibly do championship. I mean don't make any will identify as many doing of essays away to your in australia so i think he fought to get over there. The gripe to show that from our championship in australia there is popped ways to go overseas and it has been an interesting opportunity that you've had. But where is the in game for dylan. Oh now after covered have you your motorsport racing goals yet. Good question at some so tricky now as a rising driver in australia because say there's only said amount of seats in sued because and we'll with bob to rise in sitcoms fulltime but Making that a reality is Quite a challenge but it's definitely not impossible And it's not off the gods but often going onto say's law shared on definitely opened up. You know another Wealth man something that really sparked another interest and especially while young. I think it'd be nice to get over to europe and give that at crackpot to make that Work as well as a tricky thing. But i wouldn't say some impossible. Ada side something in europe or something in australia fulltime these. What on mean poll but It's hard you know. Dr phil get lost. 'cause you've sort of lost two years of of learning and i'll be career. It's such a an early. I yeah it's a tricky one and gary jacobson another victorian. Did you have much experience racing against him. As you're coming up through the ranks together to be honest I think the only time. I've ever iced against gary was was lost. Your bathroom i remember. I started I started the rice. And gary was brought behind me and that was the only real bad ever had with him to be honest I think it'd be great working together. And i respect what he's done and he's a good career out of it and i'm sure he's got along create a guy yet so Yeah i'm looking forward to welcoming him. But previously i haven't had a lot to do with him in the rice in world. And what about t- mutant. He'll be engineer across the baptist weekend. Now i'm i've spent a lotta time with this. I definitely now that so confirmed unlocked in all be making the effort to speak to them and yeah get all the preparations on the way while before we get that. So do you approach going to australia's biggest rice. We've minimal to no testing in a car that you're not overly familiar with exactly. I mean there's a lot of us in that position last year and The good thing we've baptist as you get a lot of practice you know seven sessions in the late up so you know you do get some valuable malls. But we've been said you've got to be on. The pace tried to ivy jus. You're doing running through the test. Plan that the chains wanna do when you get good feedback and Obviously get the car in the window. Come rice day and thinking about qualifying for the main driver and So many factors but lost you. I felt comfortable Really quickly just by. You know having a car driver specific sessions as well. I don't have the added pressure from having all mind job as track either. So i really enjoyed stations and the k. Ones and getting you up to speed real quick Yeah i mean if that comes down to that again this year. I'll know what to expect your vein to back there a number of times at least once in the tci maybe. Yeah tabatha st- Once in the season but also being fortunate enough to do quite a number of passes twelve hours and my super to there and you know some career cup stuff to Now i feel yeah while in shirley confident at the mountain and still going to have of that respect for the joint because Yet still quite daunting but if you trade it rod And yeah go out at the rot. Wie it's Yeah it rewards you. That was equally tying respect to the fact that they're blind corners and there are a lot of places you can get yourself in trouble very quickly. having done twelve hours you've had good stints in the cow which is important thing to get you comfortable can you. You feel what you can do that in the commodore with gary. Yeah for sure. Well and truly i mean once it comes to rise stein you lock in his lungs stains sort of becomes. You know Second nature because you've done all the preparation to get to that point and at that time just about hitting the amok is and trying to be as consistent as possible to get back to the late. Dr so When that time comes you feel super comfortable. It's just about being composed and thinking about the end goal which is getting the cod of that loss skin. Color being the hunt to get a result so Yeah those is tall vows. Obame so valuable Especially you know with that. In fact is being around foster. 'cause which keeps you aware and also The fun of sodden dock as well as always been a good one and it always helps with your Yeah trek knowledge. Sade feeding you and gary. I think he'd be a bit bigger in the top. And you but you'd be about the same is all different. Yeah correct we're about the same hot Actually i haven't sat and he's sitting position to say How that will work. But we've not said as a second drave diner to do as much as a job as a mind dravis are you so just just got to suck it up and do the best that you can weave the little intricacies. Even if they dined severe you just have to look through it and thinking. I want you on the job and he just gonna suck it out If there's a few things that quite bad you can make a couple of small chinese. But with that. Said gary and i are pretty similar haunt. So i think i should slide into you pretty comfortably and it'd be able to get on with the job and of course there's always that chance so that you can actually have to do a devastating to a war Because of the why site because those sort of things that you act may prepared for doing long country. Yes the show. I think we saw that a couple was it last year. Actually with team side and scott mclaughlin where they didn't want him in the car for that amount of time but ended up falling that y that he had to do an extra stint and by the end of it he looked so you could be fit enough to go to this and even though the not before he mono plan that strategy. You've always going to be ready for the china and especially at bathurst anything can happen and As a driver you expect the unexpected side. Probably prepared to do most insen if you die mall. I guess that's not such a bad thing though in day. I'm sure you've been a a what euro the back. There is many years so when you say that anything can happen and as they and it usually does For sure usually does the mountain stars. Anything out you and avon says ultimately by the mountain chooses who wants to win to very hard to forget that time. When rice was red flagged and everyone sat around for an hour or so and white to race out. I mean stored rates on and obviously it did have an 'cause they were chinese made on qasr change right. Yes the show. I mean The seventy stories about isn't there and that's what you don't know what to expect and expect the unexpected si- It will go into it with an open mind. And i think if what he can finish inside the top ten garin on i think that'd be fantastic and You've got to be a real list at the end of the day. And i think that's what where more than capable of doing and we go about doing the right things in the late up and over the rice Yeah i'd like to say well. This will be a second ba'athist dylan it's actually a third supercar race in two thousand. Nineteen you drive for garry. Rogers at surface yet great. I certainly want to get that guy. That was A well and knowing that i was telling jumping qualifying united twenty minutes before the session. was quite intense and didn't give me a lot of time to think about it but thankfully i had a bit of experience around gold coast previously and yeah Forever thankful to gary for giving me that chance and decided that i drive one of his super in the mangum. Which is quite cool for me. Because i still work for them full time and have a great relationship with those Those people and especially gary so Yeah it's funny how. It's my third soup todd and Quite a funny story how that one come about but Yeah god dot experience onto my about to and yeah. I think it will help me. Come back to when you look at that and the situation around at you. You obviously knew richie and you knew what was going on with him. Did you know coming into that sunday morning or actually sunday afternoon. That you'd be in the car or there was even a chance. Feared being the cop. Now definitely not. I mean i've got to Tremendous about respect for richie. He's done Personally with his career. And i got along with richie Quite well so There's not a hard feelings there but my knew something was unfolding in late ups. The rice weekend An entire wake and wasn't one hundred percent and show Upward to take my homework to to the wake him. Because i was going up there to Job coach one of my friends incur out so it was at the event anyway And i had my helmet. They had bought Tell me come to some. you know. There's definitely nar chance whatsoever that i'll be driving this car because those way of Couple of days late into it but Yeah obviously something happened on the sunday morning and then Barry rogers code me and said if you go home and i said actually died. I left it at the apartment. Because i didn't think i'd made it so i had to get and someone from the team to grab that and then yeah. The rest is history. Are i It was planned but it sort of wasn't because Obviously i wanna richer to drive the car. Because he's the main drive but Yeah i mean channel. Things unfolded there And of course. It's interesting that richie will be on the grade with you at the bathurst one thousand. Nothing's going will get terry on With the burst bald concert. i think they're A bit disappointed because it looks like i might not be able to get across from us it onto to test some in the late office viral site. I think it's handed quite a lot of people's preparations for these rights but I guess we'll just see what happens. Well it has a fascinating twelve months for you. And i'm interested in seeing how all the series can work out a why negotiating through covered because we probably have another eighteen months of uncertainty to negotiate here in australia. Yeah now we I mean we're world sick of hearing it. But it's the reality and it's our living now in charlotte. I think is going to be open to the change. Trying to find the positives. Which i think we're doing but Yeah the uncertainties not great. So we're just to push through and persevere and hopefully i mean writings Definitely not number one thing but if we can get back pricing certainly enjoyable frost the Live and the you work fulltime. For what what your main job. There the lockdown at the moment. Or are you. You're in the same. And i will go to work. Yeah correct so i've Worked for garry rogers. Since the started twenty nine when i rise the dunlop super too series for him and That was more about learning the soupy qasr and working on nine to understand how it works I'm certainly not a mechanic. But i did enjoy that season. We're gonna mind car and Building up the great report with the tame but since then I've gone into a more office by role and i'm doing oli on purchasing and pots ordering so that role sort of Suits me better as a person. And i definitely enjoy that role and How i play with the team site. I still get along with everyone Exceptionally well and I enjoy my on this. I album so working fulltime at the moment. I guess we're not sort of essentially what we do for under that gray area bane. i mechanics workshops. I we can continue to go to work. Which gets me out of the house which dry full and this is still happening in the background at jerem wisdom boss amro's joining us You know in the last few weeks to a month Yeah and it's good but having a bit of a race structure in a raid. Think of how we go about right but I think if we can get back pricing and taste the obvious she. We'll be able to Bill to a solid into the year and then Certainly twenty twenty two will be massive rossa jerem detachment series. And the at five thousand. Have you thought that. I haven't thought to guy down that direction to be honest. I've never driven a oil about certainly not looking that out. I'd love to drive one of those base around the track But for the main time I don't think that's the career pas. I'm going down but i certainly have a lot of respect for those cards there Quite cool but yet he wants to remain in that series anytime soon. I think that will thank you very much. Still cave joining us on inside because we look forward to get jammed with you. I mentioned that might be winston privately. You'll get threat In september maybe we'll see down there. Thank you for joining us inside civic yet. Thank you so much. Rob email for the gaza person. Kids inside soup macau's produced by thunder media shooting next on for more or locking the podcast on your mobile device. Search inside supercars. The views expressed on inside supercars including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network thunder media. Will sport radio. Any publication will ray broadcast of the show without the expressed written permission of funding. Media is strictly prohibited. Switching to gyco is a good idea especially when you consider everything first off gyco makes it easy to switch. They have licensed agents available twenty four seven online or over the phone. If it's so easy you might start thinking everything is easy even big wave surfing and it's not as actually quite difficult. Well if you switch to geico you could save hundreds on car insurance and you could keep saving by bundling your motorcycle. Bow and rv plus your home renter's insurance but saving money might lead you to make some questionable purchases like a twenty foot feather boa and do you know how hard it is to clean a twenty foot. Feather boa well. They do have an industry leading mobile app. You can use to pay your bill. Filer manage a claim or add. A new driver when life gets a little easier. Makes it you confident and you start calling everyone. Ace your better well. Geico has a ninety seven percent customer satisfaction rating and has been saving people money for eighty five years. It's hard to beat that switch to geico. It's obviously a good idea. Switching to gyco is a good idea especially when you consider everything first off gyco makes it easy to switch. 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australia gary jacob rockpile david reynolds Greg college Jacobson cassini gary john iowan john gary tci gary jacobson greg xfinity richie rice lake Obame dylan Marimba scott mclaughlin rice
#478 - Youth Pastor 6 vs. David C. Smalley

Dogma Debate

1:33:23 hr | 1 year ago

#478 - Youth Pastor 6 vs. David C. Smalley

"Skip the commercials and get extra-long shows with behind the scenes access at Patriot dot com slash. David see smalley. For more than ten years, he's built a reputation of exploring beliefs and changing lives. And with today's division, it's time to resurrect nuance. And Bring, back. The Art of conversation. They'll make you laugh. He may upset you. But most importantly. He'll make you think. From Los Angeles California this is David C smalley. Welcome to our cast. Quick Reminder. that. The end of August will be the last opportunity to join Patriot on at the five dollar account. So literally August thirty first ad midnight that's being cut off September. First, the lowest account will be seven dollars on the Patriots. So get in while you can. There's only about two and a half weeks left. I would love to have your support over there before the price change. So we'll do that. It's patriots dot com slash David C smelly Don't even really need to do an introduction here. This guy's basically co host at this point I. Think. But I'm GONNA go with. Its number nine number, eight number. Six and a half five point seven, eight, three of the youth pastor join me in welcoming my friend and Youth Pastor John Gary. Back. To the show, it's a man. WHAT'S UP Glad. To. Be. Back. Good to have women all all the heathens. Be a light in the darkness you know. Hey. You're the one walking around in a lightning storm right now I wouldn't be I actually. I'm in my car right now. So yeah when we first started this call. I'm like we're fine. There was a massive. Flash of lightning I mean just like I pushed me into my car. I fear. God How about that? Well, we didn't. We knew that going into it. What you've been up to many stay in safe staying away from Rona doing all that social distancing stuff. What's what's been going on with you and your family? Yeah well, I'm in Florida as you know now Florida, is pretty toasty In. Regards to this thing. So pretty pretty hot zone, but other than that. I? It's. It's it is what it is to be quite honest. It just kind of adjusting to the new normal. What Rhone has brought to the United States and brought to everyone's lives so. relearning how to live but doing it in different ways it's weird man. We're definitely living in very bizarre times. One hundred percent quick quick political side note before we get into our our our typical discussion. Literally I think maybe an hour, maybe ninety minutes before we started recording this. Joe Biden. Kamala Harris as his running mate. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it helps them get hurts him. What's going on there I? I think if Kamala Harris is able to be his interpreter for every debate in every time, he has ever in front of a camera. He's got a lot better shots 'cause no one knows what that manage saying not even him. God. What does it say with for? He can with her income. And she can speak for him kind of like Faeroes of old and Egypt you know I gotta say that will give him a much better shot. I. GotTa Say I'm fine with that the be honest with you I'm not opposed to that. I am and what does it say? Deal honestly think trump is going to win this election. I think he is really I think he is because what you have is an interesting dichotomy you have this idea of. you have everyone that is four trump enthusiastically for trump right. But then on the other side of the aisle, you have people that are not really enthusiastic for Joe Biden they are just into. Against from right but there is not a he does not have a foundational support underneath him to where people are like yeah Joe Biden for president. So I think because of that even though. On, the left side of the aisle you have more of a disdain for trump and Joe Biden is the lesser of two evils type thing. Trump has a bakes. Into the asteroid going to go out and vote for him. That's what happened in two thousand sixteen people were not enthusiastic about Hillary but trump's base was really strong and even though three million people more three more, million, three, million more people voted for Hillary trump won because of the electoral college now. I do think we have. A. Concern with that happening again and I say that because. We're really depending on at this point is young people like on the liberal side right where we're depending on young people to step up the ones who have been protesting the ones who have been demonstrating. The ones who have been saying you know enough is enough I'm tired of this that passion has lasted a very long time since the death of George. Floyd. and. Commentators including myself. I've said if that energy can just hold up till November will be fine. But now, we're talking about mail in ballots. Whole generation of young, people. And I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say this. who have literally never mailed anything in their lives. are going to be, having to vote. Who have never voted a lot of a lot of whom have never voted or mailed anything in their lives are now going to have to navigate both at the same time and and then we're going to have to trust the process afterwards right and So I think that's a that's a big. A big uphill battle that we're facing on the left and I think I honestly think that. The enthusiastic. The level of enthusiasm of anti-trump. I think is actually stronger than any enthusiasm four Biden. And I think it's going to help us. I think it's going to help liberals or those on the left. And I see I. See them will help but in in regards to who do I think will win and who who do I think has the stronger base I think is definitely definitely trump will you can help us with that. You could just vote for Biden and. Turn. On voting for. Well. I'll be completely honest. Well, at some point when the election gets closer, I'll have you back and we'll specifically talk about politics and we'll get to the bottom of that. We'll try to figure out who you're GONNA vote for. Because I look at it and I just go. Yeah. I. Get in Buenos Not. My Choice Biden's not the Guy Biden's not. Super, Sharp, as he was I, get it I all the complaints that are flying. I'm not I'm just gonNA accept him go. Yeah. I know, and here's the thing. Here's how bad your guy is. Even as terrible as Biden is as a candidate, he is still fifty times better than Donald. Trump if you look at all the terrible things, trump has done and so what does that say about the right that even when the left puts up, it's probably weakest candidate and you know the last five elections were He's still better poised to win than the incumbent. I just think Donald Trump turned so many people off with his nastiness with his insults and I think more and more Christians to tight back to the focus for today are being turned off by his attitude they're going look even if I will survive. Here's what I will say in A. In a small light of coming to trump's defense. Is Him. Every second of every day. whereas. In I think within political parties especially within ideas and all these different things. Policies and whatnot. You see politicians constantly change. their minds. They constantly changed their positions on subjects. They step over themselves and they kind of put themselves out there as who. More. So who that they think the president should be trump is just trump. Every second of every day, he has consistently himself whether that'd be good weather that beat that he is he is. Very Real I'll put it that way. Yeah. But he's a real moron like he's kicked constantly contradicts himself like he's he he he contradicts doctors concert. He'll. He'll do something like like when when he he looked at the camera and said something ridiculous about an investigating Joe Biden and then later they were like, Hey, didn't you directly show a quid pro quo? In that and then he's like. His his White House spokesperson came out. He was kidding and then they put Mike in front of trump ago where you kidding he goes I don't kid. Wait. So now he's he he'll just say it and then later go i. didn't I didn't say that or not. It's not what I said that that that's your interpretation. It is constantly spin, Spin Spin Spin in the White House, which is why there's incredible turnover, which is why people in concept I completely agree again, just kind of kind of writing to the defense a little bit. One thing I will say is no one is more interviewed or in front of more cameras than the president of the United States and I. Think. This can go for anyone I. It doesn't matter if it's trump right now or if it's a Democratic candidate down the down the road when you are interviewed and when you are asked questions and when you're drilled as much as the police is you are eventually undoubtedly going to say stupid things you are undoubtedly eventually going to contradict yourself something. You said maybe two years ago that you have no idea the or even remember that you said you're going to say something two years later that it's going to contradict. Or even within the next day. I. Think that's a fact John You could say that about any president in history, you can say that about me podcast or probably things that we could take hours of you talking to me and put two sentences back to back and say this doesn't really jive with that and I get I get that that you're spot on when it comes to that. Especially me talking. To this microphone for ten years, you could definitely take things I've said, and put them up against each other and call them contradictions without context and some of the stuff I've just been wrong about and some of the stuff I've changed my mind about and that's a part of human growth that happens. But Donald Trump at the problem is trump does not admit when he's wrong. Where there's a patchwork. We're doing. We could say something and come back to it and say, Oh yeah. Okay. I said that whoops my back. Interview and his interview with that guy when he was kept pulling out the charts recently I it's so embarrassing and trump goes. If you look at some of the numbers were lower than the world and the Guy Goes Oh. Yeah. I saw goes lower than the world. What does that mean? Just just at it look at what at the books at the documents books? What books just read them read what it was. So weird like trump is clearly out of his element and it's like a fish out of water it's very bizarre to watch so he doesn't just make a statement and then later get. And then say something that's sort of contradicts what he said he is flat out wrong. So much the Washington Post has counted twenty thousand false or misleading statements, and it's just bizarre and again I plan on talking to you about this today. Let's move on but let's dedicate an episode. Let's. Let's put some time looking into it and dedicated episode 'cause I'm I'm curious that you're on the fence. So I want I want to explore that on another episode for sure especially as we get closer to the next ninety days to this election. I'm glad it's finally going to be over I. Mean Wolf Twenty, two months I am I am so excited like I, enjoy washing fights, David, I enjoy watching boxing fights like when Manny Pacquiao came back and he was gonNA fight. Floyd Mayweather and that was like this huge fight did you watch that one? Didn't I didn't care about those two guys But yeah. I know I know There's a fight coming up between Mike Tyson and Dude Oh shoot Roy Jones Junior. It's coming out of Roy Jones Junior. I'm all over that one that one. I I can't wait. Yeah. So so there's like these these fights that people get excited or maybe like wwe type fights or you'll see whatever but man I cannot tell you how excited I am and how much I'm going to cringe for the debates between Biden and trump no, it is going to be. Fun. They're going to make sketches on that on Saturday night live for years to come. These debates that are coming up are going to be so. It's GonNa it's GonNa be like watching. Have you ever seen like like an old like barely with it grant great GRANDPA Babysit Fourth Grade His fourth grander like great grandson and the great grandson is just talk so much smack and not making any sense and GRANDPA's trying to figure out what's going on and he doesn't really know what's going on. That's going to be happening and trump is going to be throwing out the dumbest insults of of of a playground and Joe Biden's going to have to keep keep up with what's going on and try to respond without. But I'm telling you they're both loose. I am convinced there's going to be some sort before those debates are over there is going to be some sort of threat of physical violence between one of the candidates. Hey, I. WanNa. Go back, boy. They've already did you already talked about that? Yeah I. Like during I'm just ready for it to happen face to face. I tweeted the other day horrible for our country. But Gosh, it's GonNa. Be Good Entertainment. I tweeted the other day that I said something along the lines of this may be the first election in history where the challenger literally punching the incumbent in the face helped him get elected. That's what this feels like. On, talk today did you see what Robin Williams said business six years ago when Biden was vice president right now I didn't years ago. He's talking about him in a comedy show and I guess that I guess the anniversary of his death is like six years ago either some sometime this week right? So I. saw this on. Tiktok and Robin Williams is on there. He's like Joe Biden says things that even people with direct just go no. It. He has this whole little bit on Tiktok Oj by. Do you. Want to get off. it was it's horrible but funny let's see. All right. Well. Speaking of horrible but funny videos. Let's talk about your Tiktok. Okay. I'm I'm here I'm here for it. So first of all, did you I know you listened to the episode that I mentioned you in with any Abani from TIKTOK. You done of a video liberty every time I hear my name. You you did a video responding to her and you heard me then sort of. kind of push back a little and have a fun fruitful debate conversation with any on homosexuality in the Bible and how she's saying that it it it doesn't even condemn homosexuality, and by the way I've seen new videos come out since then on her Tiktok of her saying that God has no gender that gender was created by by humans so that She's a gas we were created in his image, but and so what are your thoughts on her on her worldview and how that show went? Yeah. Any I. think she's a very intelligent young woman i. also I think she's wrong I think she applies more liberal type scholarships regarding. Rounding comes to her own conclusions rather than the conclusions of experts and theologians and Biblical scholars that Actually, Oh, I don't know do that for a job. and so by coming those. Those ankeny own conclusions or by attributing attributing these ideas to more of a liberal scholarship that just matches more her own ideology she loses meaning that's. That's my. My take on it by a buying your own opinions and trying to find that matches your opinion based off your bias. Then you're not really looking for truth at that point, you're looking affirm your bias. Okay? Yeah I mean I might have to set up a debate between the two of you. On this topic and I would just moderate because it's been a weird position on this issue on them. I'm in a weird position has issue because theologically like belief wise I'm closer to her she she acknowledges some sort of I guess you sort of dea stick but doesn't ascribe to the Christian God specifically she talks she's very much on the left. So know ideologically and politically I lean. More towards her side. But then when she starts saying God doesn't have a gender and that homosexuality is not condemned in the Bible I'm way more on your side where I'm going no I. I'm pretty clear that it is against it and I think it is very clear than it is against it and that it's very clear that God is a man or at least a scribe, a male gender. and that men are given preferential treatment in the Bible, and if we start to say that God doesn't have a gender or the gender isn't really something that should be addressed on the side of religion then atheist start to lose their teeth in the argument that women are treated differently by. God right. So or the yeah. That gauls doing this patriarch treat. God doesn't I would agree with her on that one the homosexuality point I emphatically disagree on the idea that God does not have gender I think I actually more agree on that because if we're going strictly off Biblical concept, the Bible refers to God is spirit You anthropomorphized the of him being called father and these human characteristics applied to said God because the male figures, the more authoritative one within scripture. So I mean I would agree with her on that but there were some other things I I think I saw the video that you talked about some other things that I did not. Well. I mean look the they capitalize the agent he they never capitalized the essence she. He's called Father Multiple Times our father in heaven there's all sorts of. I guess. Blatant references to him being male. So I. Guess. It would depend on what we consider to be the general we talking biological no does he have a physical body? No unless you're mormon than he totally does You know I, think it's pretty clear that the Bible refers to God as as a male. So how can say how how can you say that he's he's the father in heaven and then he's the father of Jesus in that he's the father of all these things and you say he when you refer to God but didn't say he doesn't have a gender. I would I would like I said I would say an anthropomorphic terms. Just the the attributing human characteristics to. something. So since the mail is the The. Within scripture as more authoritative is the stronger one is the. One that makes the decisions and I think we actually talked about that and one of our previous debates. Because of that you're going to in order to you're you're not just going to say it right within within scripture within the authors you're not if you believe that God exists which obviously we know the people who wrote scripture believed God existed, right? Is You're going to write that you're going to give honor to the D.. You're GONNA to give honor to the one you serve and so in. You're not going to call it. You're not going to call it a what you're going to anthropomorphic going to apply some sort of gender to it even though definition, it would be genderless. Yeah I once referred to God as it in my book or in some blog before I wrote my book. And a pastor in Texas did a two day sermon. On my top ten reasons for atheism it's actually the first ever episode of Dogma Debate. the two, thousand, twelve version. none of the episodes are still existing from two thousand and ten to two, thousand twelve. But the very the the earliest episode you can go find of this show. they he he it's called ten top ten reasons I'm atheist I think I added an eleven. But He did two days with a sermons on that and when I referred to God is it during one of my just off the cuff remarks I was kind of thinking of God that way and in no gender-based but like a supreme being and then I, said it he focused so hard on that that I was being disrespectful that I was looking at God as though he was a dog at I was he was nothing objectify God I mean he got so offended by that do you feel the same way when people say God doesn't have a gender and? To say that if I were to say it or. I mean this guy was a church of Christ. You know speaking in tongues type guy. So maybe just a different belief system, I don't know. Yeah. No. No I wouldn't whatsoever because you're an atheist I'm not going to expect you to live by the same standard that I live by I'm not gonNA expect you to follow the word of God in the same way I saw the word of God or the ideas of Christianity or anything like that because you emphatically. Say you're an unbeliever. So why would I hold you to those standards of call about it? I. Mean. It does really it doesn't faze me now if you were like, I'm a Christian God's in it. Now, we could have a conversation but yes you like, say you personally or anyone who puts title atheist I'm not going to. I'm not. GonNa Freak out about. Have you ever heard atheist don't have no songs by Steve Martin. I have not I'm I'm going to share this with the world right now. I. I. Just looked with US whenever we talk we start bringing out music videos. Man The one I brought. The evolution yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well because all I was thinking as you were talking is I was thinking yeah. But the H. He is always lower cased whenever I whenever I write about God and the G. is always lower case as well. And that's one of the lyrics I think the is always lower case but Steve Martin I believe is an atheist. And made a song making fun of atheists saying eight theus don't have no songs and he's got a wonderful band that's called Steve Martin Steep. Canyon Rangers. and. They're phenomenal and I want to be playing movie no, no, no no, it's a band that he's in he's he's a musician. and Steve. Martin from cheaper by the dozen yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Steve Martin. Comedian of a no, no no. The comedian. And I'M GONNA play this clip right here. I don't know I think this is on Letterman from way back in twenty eleven. Religious people have such beautiful music and art. And Atheist really have nothing. Until now. This is the entire atheist hymnal right here. He's only one sheet of paper. A little song called atheists don't have no song. Christians. Hey. Pages hymns and pages on. as that you or the Jews that is has the rock of ages rock of ages eighty. Just sing the blues. Romantics. Cleared Lou again saying he is risen but no one. voted. To Rhoda to godless. substantial. Four AP there's no good news low never see song say didn't their song they have a rule he is always lower. As. Always. Thought CANTATA CANTATA Luther. Christmas, trees eight saw that up to Nada Nada. Have Sundays free. been. Say same thing to sing to heaven not. The books roles numerology is can only. Count to seven. Have, rock and roll. Atheist. There's no good news. They'll never see us song. In their song they have a rule. He is always lower case. Is. s tone have no. Recent the. Pages and pages. Again spoiler the. Or the fact is. The Rock of ages. Eighty Just saying the Blues Catholics, dress up for mass and listen to gory and chance eighty years just take a pass lots football in there Pam. Paul and they're under A. A. you. Stone Have No. Man That's great. The harmony was good I'll give it. Extremely, talented. Yeah. Another really they're. Playing that I was thinking there is have you ever heard of Tim Hawkins Yeah Oh yea. There's there's several. There's several atheist songs out there several Tim Mention is massively popular. He's probably one of the only super famous atheists I've never had on my show I need. And I have a friend who's friends with him. I should totally reach out to get him on the show. But ten minutes. With, who tim mention? No. Okay. Yeah. Well, you should look him up I'm not he's a comedian no Sam Hawkins He. Actually he has this bit for people who haven't listened to him. He has this This strong where he talks about these atheists, megachurches or something like that. I and play them on the show before gives you guys a whole bunch of worship songs. He's like what are they sing atheists church it yeah. Yeah. No, it's good and I. I played it on the show before and So. Wrong about so much. But. Let's get into the idea of atheism being a worldview. I WanNa play you WANNA play one of your tech talks. I think somebody tagged me or you tagged me and I opened it up and I go. John, we gotta get you back on the schedule. Is this the one I said that to unthanked so if you don't follow him, it's what is it bought Blah. Bought by blood three sixteen right on TIKTOK. Yep. Here's what you had to say about unbelievable being taught and therefore being a belief. Atheists No, you don't have no songs with strap into this one. And see how you would respond to this woman who is now a born again Christian were she says that she was raised atheist therefore, her parents taught her to lack a belief in God, and if atheism is exactly that it's not a world view, it's not a belief atheism is simply the lack of belief in God. That's what many of my atheist friends say than atheists. I have a question for you if atheists parents. Instill. In their children to lack belief in God that Sheild will now believe that there is no god because they have been raised to lack belief in God correct such as the woman in this example was raised atheist. But now we have a problem. Now atheism is not simply the lack of belief in a God because you have put that lack of belief imposed it on your children and therefore turned it into a world. Was Okay so Do, you want to say any more about that. You don't have the time limit that you have your. The Javelin Tiktok do you WanNa? Do you explain that? Anymore or why that's cool I mean yeah. That just if it just comes down to the idea is if you are raised intentionally to lack belief in God? Then when that Xiao grows up, they will not just have atheism as a lack of belief but now it will be their worldview because they were raised that way. Yeah. I mean that that's that's basically what I'm trying to say in that video. Based off that specific example, I don't have a problem with that. Like you're you're you're cadence there seems like it's a Gotcha moment for atheists and I'm going. What's I've always called atheism a worldview. Why is that? Why is that a problem? Do you. But do you consider a belief? Yeah to be the same as a worldview. not necessarily I think it does depend on context but the interesting thing about that video is I had atheists. Emphatically disagree with me and my comments section. because. I. Mean. One thing you know about me David Ever, since I met you, I, have surrounded myself with this I call it the I it's it's it's where I get my milk the cow that I go to get my milk for for my content dollars. we we can talk about that in a little bit. Yeah I am. I even told you on thinking about changing what The majority of my contents going to be but. Yeah in regards to that I. IF I'm scrolling through TIKTOK and see an atheist, it's an immediate follow It's not even way with Christians because sometimes I'll see some really dumb Christians on their no offense but they say really really dumb stuff If, you're if you're one of the Christians I, I'm also. Now, I'm surprised you and I've actually never talked about this but like the Christians that run up. and. Like let me play for you and like prey on talk that annoys me to know that. So that's an immediate scroll. Anytime I, see that I just come in. Matthew six, five through six and I just leave it there and you believe how many Christians like that comment and say Amen and praise God and they're not even going to read what the hell the verses, which is sort of mocking the people who do the public prayer and can be able to are gonNA. Think you're a Christian just going through the comments I know. Man of God. Yeah. I know as a matter of fact, a woman posted the other day something about don't you ever judge anybody don't judge people in my comments there will be no judgment here I'm a woman of God I'm a woman of the Bible you will not judge people in my comments and I come into John Seven twenty four which is the only Bible verse that Says Pass Righteous Judgment. Just don't do it based on looks which tells people to pass judgment on one another and tons of Christians are liking the covenant saying Ayman Unlike. Go read the Bible I. Just, read it like stop pretending to believe something you haven't read. But anyway back on your on your, we'll say, just let me address the context of that based off how you're taking how it actually should be taken when you actually look at that word judgments. I it's talking about. More of a final judgment it's like saying me coming up to you and saying, you are hell I'm not the judge I don't get to say that me saying. Man. You. Really need to get better style that is not the judgment that that scripture is talking. It is it is specifically saying you cannot pass judgment or pass righteous judgments on someone you're not got. You don't get that authorities. So No, no, no no, you're. You're the opposite you're exactly wrong there John. says. Don't judge by appearances but judge with righteous judgment like saying look beneath the surface like. In some versions actually say that if I recall, it says look beneath the surface and judge with righteousness or judge one another righteously get does say to pass righteous judgment. Just don't do it based on appearances. Oh, I'm thinking of the wrong scripture. I'm sorry. Yeah you're you're you're a hundred percent right I I was thinking about the scripture where he talks about judge lets you be Josh right right and that's one. That's what that's what I was defending your right on that what you're right also. So anyway. Let's get back into this idea that atheism can't be a world. What are the atheist saying to you? What what I'm getting here is that they're afraid. and. A lot of new atheists are afraid to go down this road and I was at first to until I got more balanced in my worldview in my ability to defend it. They're so afraid of the word belief. because they think that if they admit that atheism is a worldview, then they have to admit to somehow having faith and I have no problem. I have no problem at all telling you atheism is my worldview, but it's not my belief and I can. I can easily demonstrate that with common sense which I believe would completely make your video a moot point. But before I do that tell me what the atheists are saying in your comments what are they? Exactly? So afraid of with atheism being their worldview. It they are afraid of comparison just kind of like you're saying they are. Very I in me. Myself, with ads, I have a ton of them that see my videos probably twenty five percents of my followers. I have like fifteen thousand followers probably twenty, five percent of them are obvious because I follow them, they follow me back have great friends. There's some atheists known as the Tart Boys. The Atheist Roundtable they have the Youtube Channel if you're an atheist. Yeah definitely go check them out. They just hit one case strivers and like. Of. A couple months, which is youtube. Wise. That's actually pretty good and they're using tiktok kind of that platform but. In developing these relationships though the ones that I've really close relationship, they don't come into my comment section and start fights. It's more. So the ones that I don't have as good relationships with and so because that comparison is being made so they say Christianity is a world. Being Jewish is a world. and they're they're kind of comparing it with belief. Because I say atheism is a world I think like you said, they are afraid of that comparison because then the next step that Christian might take it's not it's not a step that I take. It's not something I even agree with is where someone says atheism is a religion I disagree with that statement but Yeah. So they'll come in my comments section then they'll fight for it not being a worldview they'll go into All sorts of things in my simple point in this is that atheism can be a world view. I have not made up my mind entirely whether atheism all encompassing is the world I'm still I I've really gotten into philosophy and I'm trying to study that and. they based off philosophy. One thing I can say is that. They do not see it as a world view from I've seen. Now what they do is they are. They they definitely make the differentiation between atheist and agnostic atheist. They think that is something more cultural, but it does not make sense philosophically. In in certain things like that. And they're coming in my comments section and they're just they will fight tooth and nail that atheism is not a worldview and can't be a world view that you can't teach unbelievable and all these different things and I disagree. But like I said, the point of that video is to illustrate that atheism can the A worldview? Okay So so let me put the let let me let me put this to bed because I don't want atheist to run away from that conversation and I know one atheist to to get into the mud fighting with someone in the comments section on whether or not atheism is a worldview. Remember. And I'm not just talking to you John. I'm talking to all the atheists listening right now who want to have these types of debates with people as one of the old guys in this movement now I guess. A world view is just how you view life. It's just a philosophy or A. I think the definition is, let me pulled up here. The definition of a world view is a particular philosophy or conception of the world. So. It's just how you view the world So. Lacking a belief in God. Means that you're living your life as though there is no god. But that's not the same thing as asserting a positive position that you know there is no God and you have evidence that you can't show for it. Therefore, requiring faith to fill in the gaps What you're saying is you haven't had seen enough evidence to warrant belief in God. So you are eight theistic and that's usually driven because of skepticism. So you have your skepticism and that leads to atheism and. Your belief if that comes into anything can start to be something that you could positively assert such as humanism now, I can tell you. I do not believe in a God but I won't say I believe no God exists because it seems to me that when one asserts a positive belief, you should probably have ever no proof right and so I don't have the proof that there is no god but I can give you strong arguments against the evidence provided for the Christian. Deity. So I can say I don't have enough sufficient evidence to warrant my positive belief. So my worldview is as though there is no god. And I live my life as though there is no god while remaining open to evidence at all times. Now, my belief can be that humanist ethics is superior to Christian ethics or humanist morality or living life as humanist as a humanist is superior to living a life as a Christian. Now that I'm comfortable with saying positively and then we can have a whole debate and I can put evidence forward to show that I think humanist morals and ethics are superior to Christian morals and ethics. Mostly because it's adaptable, it's changeable it's not immutable. It doesn't come from one single source but adapts with societies and grows so. I. Think Mind My has shown. Tennis I'm sorry. But I WANNA say this quote from someone who I loved dearly I haven't talked to him in years. He moved all the way across the country and started a new life But for anyone out there who has not heard of Jerry Dewitt I strongly recommend you go look up his book. He has a book called hope after faith he was a pastor for twenty five years and became an atheist he was the first. What they call graduate of the clergy project, which helps those in the ministry come out of of the ministry by finding them a new line of work if they're unbelievers and I had the honour of doing his audiobook took nine days to do it and and we laughed we cried a we got extremely close as friends and I just think very highly of him. He still has very much that southern preacher charm he came from pentecostal background and is now atheist. His quote, his most famous quote and I remember it because we printed on t shirts for him at one point. Is What he would say is skepticism is my nature. Free. Thought is my methodology. Agnostic schism is my conclusion. Atheism is my. Opinion. Humanitarianism is my motivation. Now none of those say that is my world view, but this is the ideological worldview of the vast majority of atheist not to say, every eight years is humanitarian not to say, every atheist is a skeptic, right? The the white nationalist I had on on a previous episode is a perfect example of someone who went back and forth between Atheism in Christianity without any skepticism whatsoever. So I I wouldn't I wouldn't apply that to him but atheism is more of an opinion based on what you do know. Driven by the nature of skepticism using the methodology of free thought and at the end of the day, if that develops a world view and you live your life and view the world as if there is no God until you have further evidence than eight theism can be called a worldview but humanism is what's driving the belief and none of that at all requires faith or for atheism to be called A. Or religion. So you can enter into that conversation without feeling like you have to now defend atheism as some kind of belief or proof or indoctrination. Yep and one other thing. I. Would add to that I'm actually reading a book right now called born believers. Have you heard of it? No, I have not. Okay. It goes into the developmental psychology and actually now it is written by a Christian okay. How percents but he also has a PhD at Oxford I it. You could. You can definitely see within the book from my perspective you can see certain bias kind of pop out your and then but the science itself is still intact. And this is something interesting I would like to share your opinion on this regarding this kind of subject. Is. Children. From what we see and what we see in the developmental psychology. Children are actually born. More. So with a predisposition. To the existence of a god or gods or deities some kind sure then they are to natural. Of Phenomenon. Or. Natural. Explanation Yup. And I I could explain. Can explain that very. So throughout throughout nature anytime you look at mammals. Especially those who are born and then within minutes are walking in our. At danger for being eaten. Look at, let's say a deer for example or antelope. Those things pop out and a giraffe another example they pop out and within minutes they have to stand up and. Go stuff trying to eat us. Let's get moving right. So through biology in through. The vast majority of mammals? Have this predisposition, this inborn innate instinct. To Recognize An imprint on something like itself. Now they don't have mirrors. They don't know what they look like necessarily. But this idea that what I pop out and I look up and I see a big version of me I connect to that. This is why the GIRAFFE goes to it's mother as opposed to running towards the prey. This is why ducklings can imprint on on someone who's taking care of them and as the person as the as the ten year old walks around the house, the ducklings then follow as the ten year old is their mother. there's this inborn instinct to go something that is like me but bigger and powerful I need that for security. You don't have to train a two year old. To run to his father at the sound of thunder. He's just going to naturally do that for protection. So this idea that there is something like me that is out there in bigger and stronger has been an has been in our genetic makeup for millions of years throughout evolution. So the fact that we've gotten to the point of a civilized society yet, we still have these these lingering instincts to reach out for something bigger and stronger than ourselves. That look like us makes perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective that doesn't bother me one bed, but it's up to us. Well, it actually goes deeper than that though. It goes it goes deeper than just the recognition of a sentient or conscious agent that like like you said running to daddy you whenever the thunder scares. It goes beyond that the science actually goes deeper even with inanimate objects right. So they're they're they're multiple studies done where they bring a bunch of children that are preschoolers or experiments that they do with even like one year olds two year olds. And they see which things makes more sense to the child. So, for example, within the teleological side of things. Okay the. Creation has a creator. They ask the child where does amounts income from they leave it open they leave it open ended. They say outed a mountain get here. How did this? Why is this rock sharp? they do it with animals they do with the color for like on a polar bear and they do it with all of these things and what is so interesting is that this has nothing to do with running to a stronger force stronger agent. They are simply looking at the natural world and there is an immediate connection that there is a supernatural explanation more. So and like I said, it's not a specific God it's not like they say, Oh, the Christian God exists as a one year older. They're even the science tobacco up, but there is something there to where they are able to recognize. Even at an extremely extremely young age that the world is not just designed accidentally, but they feel like the world has purpose. So for example, if they were asked that, why is a raw shark? They would say. So that animals don't sit on it. Now. This is a this is more of the preschool level vise Iraq sharp to animals don't sit on it. So they're attributing. A. Purposeful reason for the rock being sharked. Simply naturally sharp through different different things that it's been through through the impact into. Iraq and how it was made into Iraq. There's this idea of there's a purpose for this. Why? Why is the son there why is the mountain and they ask these type of open ended questions and these kids these little tiny kids within this developmental psychology are giving purpose. And meaning to nature more than just applying it to an agent. They're saying there's a reason it's your and that's not something that is taught. That is not something that we can attribute to biology or evolution. These are things that children are looking at on hold on hold they are able to recognize. How can you say that's not something we can attribute to evolution. I think I would say that falls perfectly aligned with what I was saying, what what yet may go deeper, but I'm talking about where the instinct comes from. And by the way that was one of my reasons. By top. Ten reasons for atheism when I quoted my daughter actually she was think Oh. Yes. I could look up a quote I. Know What's out there she was four. I think maybe five years old and she was in the car. And I asked her where the stars came from. And she goes the moon made the stars. And I said within word of the moon come from and she goes Daddy. The Moon, the boss nobody made the moon. And and I quoted this in my I, think this is actually even in my book if I remember correctly I don't know for made it or not. I think he did and I say. That this is the. This is the mind of a child. To not understand that the moon is the tiniest things she's actually even looking at but because of her perspective and lack of information, the moon looks to be big and powerful to her, and if that's the ideology that Christians Hook their wagon to I say take care of yourself like go ahead with that because that's not anything intellectually sound at all. You can't just look from your perspective and go. I mean this is the mind of a four year old saying because it looks bigger to me, it must be the boss. That very much matches, the the Christian mindset and I think in my my reasons I said, it should it would be embarrassing to hold on to the mindset of a four year old as your worldview as an adult you should know better you should know to change perspective to to check the validity of your reality. Right. So maybe look through telescopes, but you need to study the size of the moon versus the size of the stars see if there's anything in the moon that has the ability to create those things we're better than that just because toddlers are born with this this concept that something has purpose that is not evidence for God that's evidence for evolution that were seeking. Were seeking truth and we want to know why things happen and why things operate the way they do. That's just a critical thinker trying to be critical thinking with with with limited information resources. That's not evidence bill I think that falls apart. I I think that entirely falls apart for the reason. I would agree with you if every adult grew out of that idea, right we're working and we're able most of. Most of us do we're working on it? That's that's not they. Most of you do there is there is. Religion is far more saturated the world than atheism. It's fall off by by a very, very long margin. No. Though lacking, I'm not making an argument from will ovulation or anything like that. But John, it's important to note that lacking religion is the fastest growing quote unquote religious group under Pew Research I. Know You know that? There is not. Baptist or Catholics or anyone else it's growing faster than the nonreligious community. So it's taking a long time but the accessibility to information and discussions like this and podcasts in people being able to fact, check the Bible and find out the history of the Bible you somebody. John Someone on Tiktok just day commented on something I'd commented on and said. Of course called me a clown and a Karen. Because that's what happens on tectonic I was a clown in a Karen and they said. The people who wrote the Bible were following Jesus around you caring. Clown face clown face clown phase ha ha read the Bible Idiot joke joke ha ha laughing stock clown face like making fun of me as though I don't know this fact that doesn't exist that the people who wrote the Bible followed Jesus around you as a Christian and educated Christian. No that is false. Yet there is this belief that the people who wrote the Bible followed Jesus around yeah. That's what I thought when I was thirteen to like this kid probably is right but you've gotta go you gotTa go further than what you were. What you were taught in your junior high Bible study class. But. But that's that's the thing people. Like like I said maybe maybe growing I don't necessarily speak that I think it definitely is I. I haven't seen the research personally I will for the sake of this discussion I will take your word on it shooting the you can shoot me the sources later on we get off the phone but sure in regard to. The growth of Christianity growth of Islam or some other religion right there growing to. Okay. So it's not like one day atheism is going to take over the entire world religion has been here since the beginning and I would posit. Now obviously this this can't be this. This is just a statement, but I would posit that. Religion is going to be here until and asteroid destroys the earth or what whatever happens. Right? This idea that religion is going somewhere is not going anywhere and this idea that critical thinking cannot exist and it's just kind of what I got from your statement is more so that to believe that there is a creator of the Moon Right and that the moon isn't just Baier when looking at science and looking all these things to believe in that what. We're actually saying that was critical thinking comes in and once you're able to learn about science and what you're able now you can get rid of God and you can you can give natural explanation and I don't think that's true at all because you still have atheists converting to other religions and you still have people who are who know the exact same thing is you? Are Maybe. Raised to think critically maybe they are raised to look at science and evolution and all of these things but they are still changing their mind and conversions are still happening to where it does not matter and we cannot just say, oh, it's just th they they. They're thinking Christians. Children they just think there's this this big sky data, your whatever, and Gosh I hate it when atheist say that's one. All right anyway. But this idea that saying critical thinking. And not having enough information is childlike and therefore kind of this comparison that other religions or Christianity or whatever. They are child like because they don't have enough information is just demonstratively false. There are some very, very, very, very intelligent people in the world that have all information that's still come to the decision that there is a god or gods that exist and so I that's why I think that that reasoning it just completely falls apart. We'll let there is still this idea and like for example, we'll will come in my talk and say. God's like Santa Claus the tooth or all of these things, right? But the problem is adults grow out of that. They recognize that the parents put the presents underneath the tree they recognize that the parents of the money underneath a pillow, and so what happens is they see that evidence and they grow out of it in the same way with God, they're not growing out of that. It's actually the opposite. It's not the opposite. Here's what I want to say. I've said for a long time that eight theism. Or that atheists should never think that they are always automatically smarter than Christian. So that's definitely not my my position. there are plenty know I'm smarter than you. So. Yeah. That's why you have such a giant Tiktok following that you. You. WanNa you WanNa, play you WANNA play I i. heard your. Little Weird. Battle Rap I. Just I'm sorry. I'm not as talented that I can't drum on thing with. Them on a counter with pen it comes it comes with intelligence. Okay. It's critical that critical thinking that allows me to do that. You know it's Here's the thing. I don't think that atheists automatically smarter. However. There is a reason I think that ninety three percent. Of. Scientists. Are Atheist or. Agnostic. I do think there is a reason that statistically the more educated a person gets the less likely. They are to believe in religion and conversely. The. The less education. A person has the more religious they're likely to be. When you go to rural parts of Georgia, where the dropout rate is extremely high in high school and a very low number of people go to college the religiosity is through the roof whereas you go to a place like Japan or New York or very well educated city where people are the vast almost everybody graduates high school and fifty to sixty percent of people go onto. College and those people get Masters degrees and then PhD's the more educated. A person gets the lower. The religion will be in that area. That's just a fact of statistics. So it's not an alum Rico interesting about what we were talking about. Well, let me finish this though it's not to say individually right I know plenty of atheist who have figured out the whole God thing but. Said something that probably couldn't put on the show. It's an old southern saying about not knowing something else from a hole in the ground but. There are eight theorists who have figured out the God thing but I would not consider them a skeptic I've talked atheist who believed they can summon rainbows. I'm not kidding I've talked to eighty to believe they see and talk and communicate shortage. They must think they're Leprechaun's with there you go dead people like they think they can actually can actually talk to people I've I've talked to I mean I've I've talked to atheists who who believe they can manifest themselves to other dimensions. Okay. So just being an atheist. Isn't. Doesn't automatically come with with critical thinking. However, I think those people are outliers and I think the hard core believers with PhD's are also outliers because across the board, the more education, a person receives the more information they have the less likely they are to believe. Furthermore and the final piece of this is this is not just Christianity and this is not just in America when you look throughout history. Everything that was a mysterious had got assigned to it. Zeus Poseidon damage after the Greek Goddess of agriculture. They thought she was responsible for growing the plants. They didn't understand enriched soil or environments or temperatures, or how much water needed to go on look at Athena Apollo look at Africa. Look, at Horace. decided that a son was dragged through the sky by a god in a chariot. Anything that we didn't understand we ascribe to God as the 'cause it was the god of the gaps and time after time after time John More time goes by more information is found out and the solution is natural. Every single time I'm not saying most of the time I'm saying one hundred percent of the gods that you know for a fact do not exist is because there is a natural explanation for what's happening. So you're an sense urine atheist to you're an atheist to all of these other gods anyone who believes there's a God polling, the Sun Across Ricky Jarvis me you are eight theistic to that. You are. It's not Jarvis yes. One hundred percent anyway. So what into Rick it's To to Ricky. To Ricky Spoil the guy on iron man no right. To Ricky's point. I'm just an atheist to one more. God, you're holding onto that last one. That that science has completely gotten rid of at least in your opinion. You apply the god of the gaps in to to. To to sort of Appeal to a toddler mindset and go. Yeah. But these little two year olds had this inkling that there's bigger purpose. Okay. But the theoretical physicists know better. So if you want to strap your wagon to the toddlers by all means go for but don't pretend to have intellectual. You know an intellectual superiority over over people who have studied this stuff for years and obtained PhD's in it when you're latching your logic to that of a toddler because those of us who grow up and study the science we know better and we do grow out of it. So I would say that. From my position. This. This idea that I'm not just latching onto a toddler. Okay. I'm not just saying because the toddler says. So now that's because that's how I feel. But it is interesting that todd those that are not tosses automatically give purpose to life. Just, absolute I can't think of I'm trying to say a word right now Gosh. It starts with an I David Help me I'm not sure what you're getting it. There's there's a word I'm. Thinking of, but I can't say. It it's. What whatever? Implying isn't it? Again I can't say my vocabulary is broken, right? There we go. Intrinsic value and intrinsic purpose. I knew I would come to me but they they ascribe intrinsic value and intrinsic purpose even though they have not been taught it. That is where now what's interesting is along with this study You see that kind of like we were talking about atheism. And how it can become a world view if you're taught unbeliev right or critical thinking or whatever you wanna say. In the same way. When those ideas or abandoned usually, it has taught it is not A. It is not natural for a child. To think about natural explanation. What do you think? It means for someone to teach their child atheism I'm really curious from your Christian perspective what that looks like to you. Oh I mean. I would just say to teach filed that there is no god. If I'm not. I'm not saying that all atheist do that by anything but yeah. But if in the phrasing of the question, I would say the teacher child but there is no god how. What what does that look like to teach your child at? There is no God because I am I'm going to be honest with you. My daughter's an atheist she sixteen. I, know. Gosh I've probably met. In person over a thousand atheists, I'm guessing maybe more. Hell, I probably met a thousand at one convention. So maybe a few thousand in person for. Hundreds and hundreds of people I've talked to multiple times. About their. Kids. I've given talks about parenting as an atheist. I've had people. I've done voiceovers for audio books about secular parenting. I've I've talked with child psychologists who are also atheists. And as anecdotal as it may be for my perspective. As an atheist in this movement who has this voice that have listened to hundreds of people talk back to me over over these headphones. I have literally never in my life heard any atheist. Say it that way. I teach my child there is no god. In fact okay. In fact what typically happens is I'll say So what do you say to your kid when they say mom do you believe in God? Almost, unanimously, the answer is. I don't know what do you think? Because what the atheist community or skeptic community. Prides itself on. Is Teaching children how to think. Not What to think. Where KRISTAL Christian indoctrination specifically says, this is what happened. Here's who did it here's WHO's watching you here's who's responsible for good and bad in your life. Here's what you must say repeat after me as Bill Burr says, say what we say when we say it, it's chance it's it's here's the creation. Here's the year. Here's the life. Here's what God wants. Here's what Jesus said here's. What you better believe before you die, here's what's going to happen to you after you die the atheist looks at the kid and goes what do you think what makes sense to you? We what? Let's read a little history about it and we're sitting down with our kids at three four and five years old reading science books teaching them about scientists teaching them about Jesus Reading Bible Stories. Every atheist I personally talked to about this, including me read atheist read Bible stories to their kids. But also taught them stories of Thor and Zeus and Denver and native American gods and we talked to them about belief and we ask them their opinions because we want them to think critically and learn how to think were as Christians tell children exactly what to think exactly what to believe in what torture will come after them if they don't do what they're told. Okay so You things. First off, let me deal with this statement. We teach our kids how to think not what to think. All right. I disagree. From. This from from this perspective. You indirectly. Teach. Your kids to believe what you believe. Or lack thereof. Whether. You sit them down and say honey. We'll. Jimmy. There is no God for whether. You say, let's learn about this or let's learn about this subject or what's learn about why the moon exists it does not matter. If a parent is a cop. They never sit down with their kids and say. All right. Listen you need to be a cop. There is something that is just Kids pay attention. and. You are indirectly maybe not directly. Maybe there are cases of direct saying okay. Hey, there is no god I know some Nas dictate nasty. TIKTOK where I would not doubt it in the least if they sit their kids down and try to show them that there is no show them that there is no god and tell them there isn't better not leaving God. I would not doubt I am not saying it happens but with nonstick atheist, I would not doubt. They are completely against the even intellectual honesty of there being possibility of listen I. GotTa Tell You I don't know who you're talking to or talking about I've never had anyone like that. Apart of any community I've ever been speaking to I've I've had debates with over semantics over belief and knowledge with certain eighth easiest who say they know there is no god versus believing there is no. God. In that belief or knowledge a subset of belief and we get into these philosophical discussions that I just don't even care about diving into because it just it just irritating to me but I think that they they use it to to skew reality sometimes but even those folks. I've been with them with their children. Some of them were at one time co-hosts on my show and I've seen them interact with their kids and ask their kids questions about their belief now I don't understand what the point is here because I think what we're ultimately going to get down to his indoctrination. And indoctrination is teaching a person. To think uncritically of their beliefs. Yeah. Yeah to. Accept something as the only possible truth. And I've never seen an atheist do that I've seen atheist say you know what? I missed as a kid is access to knowledge I was told you was never you've never met a enough. I didn't say that I said that when they talk to their kids from what I've seen, they still want their kids to think critically they don't teach there. I don't don't don't. I'm not. I'm not saying for every atheist and the world where every nostitz. I'm saying there are people I personally know on Tiktok. The I know how militant and how angry they are but you don't want homer stations with their kids, John. You don't know how they're till. You're right it's and so I and I even said that I did not say was the fact that this happened right but the point I would not doubt it. The point here is I don't know of a single atheist. Even. Who has spoken publicly about it at all who has indoctrinated their child to D-, demand them to never believe in any God or to to to. Believe, in quote Unquote Atheism as a belief or as unchecked or as uncritically. Doesn't that doesn't seem to happen I've never seen it. I've never heard of it. It seems to be like an attack from the Christians will say we do it but I've never seen anybody do it just. To not say. Christians. Will say Oh eight an evolutionist believed a snake can become your friend. There are Straw in on Christian websites about what atheist believe which I appreciate you coming directly to the source and talking to atheists about it because you'll find that the majority of Christian websites who talk about atheism are either. Intel. Intentionally. Lying or or just. So uneducated on it that they make up and fill in the gaps of what they think atheist believe without being honest about the actually theus worldview But the point here is atheist for the most part that I've seen do not indoctrinate their kids while Christians not only indoctrinate their own children try to indoctrinate. Erin and even have groups like the good news club who has what they call the four fourteen window. We gotta get into those public schools. We gotta get them between four and fourteen during the early developmental stages, and we gotta get them while they're young so that they believe it as a part of their core value system. So indoctrination is a part. Of the very motivation of Christianity and for atheists, we're not indoctrinating our kids. We want our kids to be immune from indoctrination. So we teach them to think critically show them multiple different religious beliefs and to challenge authority respectfully because that's how you gain progress in life we don't want our kids to be yeah, and I never was saying that ATS Just directly doctor like I said I I was giving some examples of some people that I know personally that it would not surprise me just because I am that's that's totally making a judgment but I'm just saying I'm not saying it as fact, the point I was making is that your beliefs or your lack of beliefs whether you have sat down with your daughter or not and said there is no god. Lifestyle you live. Has told her that whether you sat her down? Well I mean I. Think this idea that belief like the this idea of teach my child how to think not what to think no because your children watch you. If you're an atheist, your children watch you. Watch the video a couple of days ago pendulum. And he was talking about raising an atheist family. It's actually on Youtube five minute clip. Rating atheist. Family. And his five-year-old. one of her friends said Oh my God. And this five year old looks at the other kid and says. God does not exist right? Where did she get that? It's not necessarily because pendulum sat them down and said, that's but children pay attention to the beliefs of their parents or lack thereof. Yeah. So and therefore what Mommy and daddy do I wanna do to some of your an atheist you may be teaching your child what to think they stop your own beliefs no John come on. That's. Horse Shit you know that his horse shit listen we as parents are supposed to lead our kids down the Beth best possible path that we can. That's just the way it works. If you're a hunter and fisherman and you want to teach your kid to live off the land, you don't sit them down and say you need to live off the land but you. Take them with you and you go hunting, teach them how to skin a fish and you you you. You take him fishing and all that other stuff and yes, they become like you on some level it will. What are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to do? Ship our kids off to Christian camp for the first six years of their life like. What do you expect I? Don't understand what the point of all of this is. Yes. We're going to pass down our world's best practices to our children, but that is nowhere near in doctrine a belief like Christianity does. So I don't even know your eyes I never said it was. So what you're playing never that it was my point, my point simply is that. You are indirectly still teaching your children, what to believe based off what they see from the. That's my only point. I'm not saying you're indoctrinating them I'm not telling you that you're directly sitting them down. I. Am saying that Your Children Watch you. They recognize that they listened to your language. That's how they learn how to make your whether it's English or whether it's Mandarin or whatever they learn how to speak your language and that five year old in that video that looked at her friend and said, there is no God pendulum head Now she she got she got that from us. She must have heard that there is no god of course that's that five year olds belief that there is no God did not come on her own. Ability to reason or ability to look at the natural world and apply natural explanation that beliefs that there is no god. Tame because I heard mummy and daddy sake. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that I. that's perfectly fine. Still. That's still how they are. They're taught what to think through the lives of their they're not taught what to think. What they're doing is they're learning to ask questions they're learning to think critically and their parents are showing them best practices and I just I don't know anybody who would ever apologize for that like that. That's perfectly fine but a five year old just saying there is no God or God doesn't exist that's just her inability I mean, she's only five I mean she's not going to be able to articulate critical thinking at that age and by the way that girl you're talking about is. Gone She's twelve or thirteen now. Maybe even a little bit older. Video Yeah yeah she. So now if you were to sit down and talk about it, I don't know that she would say that. So it would depend on the wording, but it seems it just seems like such a stretch. It's almost like your video was sort of trying to collect atheism as though it was some sort of belief in that people were taught to be atheists and then I don't really know where you're going with it like at the end of the day. Yeah I mean my daughter was also a Dallas Cowboy Fan because we grew up in Texas or in the Dallas area. Yeah. Exactly. What I mean I mean that's perfect and I mostly had fords growing up I would have. Had A ford. Pickup. Bayada Ford Mustang I. had cars that that I that I liked ended fords but my daughter today at a corvette and goes that's what you should have data. Nice. Car and I'm like it's a corvette. She's like so that's what you need to get. There's also a period in the kids lives where they want to be the exact opposite of their parents were they wanNA rebel students and there's a whole field of psychology that I ended that I actually studied in college, which is. You're supposed to let your kids Blake break the rules. I should've I should've no warning here to let the kids go away for a minute but this idea that had follow every single rule that you put out they become you. And you've got to let your child. respectfully challenge authority respectfully being the keyword respectively challenge authority because if they're allowed to challenge you if they're allowed to say why because those of us who grew up in religious household, you know what answer you got for why say it with me? It's because I said. So everybody knows that that's the answer in religious households in many nonreligious households I'll be honest with you after the word why comes an explanation will why is that? Because if we focus on critical thinking, what we do is we say I want you to know why making this decision. So you can make a better decision in the future. I know that my job is apparent is to teach you how to live without me. So if I can teach you how I am parenting, you can parent yourself earlier and better with my guidance and eventually you won't need. Yeah at all and I can die. Happy Right that to me is a successful parent. So this idea that that we teach our kids what to think no, no, no, no, we lead. By example, our kids are typically going to end up us and when our kids challenge US and want to go to. Church. The majority of atheist let our kids go to church. Shackling, right and and yes it'd be absolutely clear on that I am not saying in any way that this is the case for all atheists that have ever existed never will exist on the planet that just through your Unbeliev, your child is automatically going to be a kiss. That's not what I'm saying but I'm saying in the same way you use the Dallas cowboys you live in Texas, right? No no you live in California live late for new now no Texas. Okay. So yeah, you said the Dallas Cowboys. All right. So in that analogy, I think that's a perfect explanation is that interesting full of teaching her how to think or what to think just based off of her environment? No No. It's not it's a teaching her what to think. It's her just on her own following in my footsteps wanting to be like Dad. That's not the same. Thing. That is no it's not John that is not that is nowhere near look me just being a fan of the Dallas cowboys and my daughter wanting to bond with me also liking the Dallas Cowboys is nowhere near you sitting your daughter down and telling her if she doesn't pray like this or if she doesn't worship God, she's going to burn a lake of fire for eternity. That is teaching him not to think though I'm not I'm not making a comparison of Christianity I agree with you indoctrination completely exist Christian you're in a other religions or other churches or whatever you want to say I'm not disagreeing with that point whatsoever. That's not what I do in my household in any way but more than likely my daughter is going to. Be a Christian just based off the environment she's lived on if she chooses something different if she becomes an atheist, you can have on the Co host and albeit cheerleader fourth I don't I'm not saying that I'm not willing to teach my daughter how to think critically but the environment that she grows up in is going to present based off the developmental psychology. It is going to give her predispositions to believe a certain way to where she didn't necessarily choose her environment has chosen for her, and if as parents we create that environment then by default in a way or innocence, we have chosen that for them or. You teach your kid critical thinking. and. For lack of a better term, they see bullshit bullshit. Right that's an and that happens that. Absolutely. There, there are plenty of atheists that have Christian kids. There are plenty of Christians have atheist kids is not necessarily going to stick throughout their life. At a point I agree with you there is going to be a point where they examine their own reasoning. They examined their logic and their own beliefs, but there is for a period of time this predisposition to believe a certain way. And they may never. They may never escape that predisposition. They may never escape that belief that they grew up with and that's where indoctrination comes in. Okay. So as long as it were clear that atheist are not participating in indoctrinating their kids, it sounded like that's what you were You know never never once said eighty indoctrinating their kids. I was simply challenging the statement how to think not what to say because I think there there is still a way I. Don't think it's I i. think it is completely unavoidable that there are certain aspects of the way our children's brains develop that there is in some way something that we have talked them on what to think and not how you. Bowl and it's not necessarily a negative. No I think it is though here's here's why I'm GonNa push back one more time before we move off this topic feels like talking in circles. As much as my daughter grew up with me being afford guy her favourite car is a Chevrolet. Corvette. as much as my daughter grew up being a cowboy fan with me. We move to la she gets a boyfriend who was from Philadelphia and she came home one day in a Philadelphia. Eagles, hoodie Now, anyone who knows anything about the NFL you know that the cowboys and the Eagles are about as Hateful rivalries you can get hateful rival love. The Eagles they're. They're like most of the team are Christians I figured. But. She. She walked in the House one day with with an eagles hoodie on. And outside like. Non My house you don't. And it was, of course I was I was joking with her but there was this moment where I'm like you know what? Why does my daughter feel comfortable? Coming home in an Eagles Jersey knowing how much I hate the Eagles Why would my daughter feel comfortable asking me to go to church with one of Christian friends. Why would my daughter feel comfortable in pointing out that she thinks corvettes are way sexier than mustangs why? Because While she knows the way I live and she knows my opinions. And she saw me live that way. She was always comfortable thinking for herself. She was always comfortable thinking critically challenging authority and disagreeing with Dad. I don't think many Christians. Grow up comfortably. Challenging their parents on a damn thing. Especially, not religion or I don't think you can make that general of state. I. Out of eight schools David. Well I shoot you. My parents. You were bad I'm talking about on religion and I John. Oh Man. I'm going to open my inbox up to hundreds of emails and I welcome them because I will I will forward every single one to John if you guys want me to. People who are atheists now? Who will tell you? They had to hide the fact that they were challenging religion. They had to hide their skepticism. There are people, John I will promise you. There are people right now listening to this conversation in ear buds. and. They cannot let the people that they can see in their own house right now. No they are hearing this conversation from an atheist podcast host. The people who will turn their phones like click click their phones to black and put it in their pockets and put their ear buds on and cook dinner with their Christian mom or pretend to be reading a book a Christian Book. While they're listening to my podcast, they have to hide their inquisition into religion they have to hide questioning and scepticism from the Christian family members even all the way up to college level students because if If they're Christian parents found out that they were challenging religious beliefs they would stop paying for their college John. I know personally at least. One or two people. In their wrong listen for their thirties John. That fear. Telling their mother that they are in Eighth East will break the family apart. This is what Christian indoctrination does and you do not see that from the atheist side of things and when I tell you I, don't like it I desperately don't like it when I see my daughter wear something from. Philadelphia. Eagles I, know it's silly. I know that I liked the cowboys because I was born in Texas and raised by cowboy fans that they don't really mean anything in those cowboys. By the way, they will trade to those eagles in a heartbeat if the eagles will pay them more money, those players don't give a damn about that star on their head. It's a job to them. So what are the fans take it so seriously? Right, I know that it's silly. But always allowed my daughter to challenge me respectfully in think for herself and for the most part I don't think Christian kids get that same opportunity and so when we say Teach our kids how to think not what to think broadly, that's what we mean but this is to the listener right now, send me a message, send me an email. Go to my website David vs swelling dot com click the contact warm fill it out does it have to be long but give us a quick story of how you felt. As a Christian, you felt afraid to let your parents know you doubting religion? And I can promise you. I know my daughter's never felt this way. To say she had a question about Christianity or she wanted to go to church with a friend. I've let her go every single time. She's ever asked me to. She's asked to stay the night at a Christians House on purpose because the person wanted to have Bible study and I said Okay and I warned the parrot I said she's going to ask a lot of questions. This okay. Questions. Welcome. All right. Fine and I let him go I I let her go. Atheists kids for the most part are not damned for questioning are not shamed for doubting. But, in Christian households, it happens quite often. and. That's what's I wasn't that wouldn't just say Christian I would say religion. I agree you're you're a hundred percent religion religious household. I would say you're right I completely agree with that state right? You're right. You're right. You're right. So it wouldn't you say it's better then to raise your kid with more critical thinking and less shaming for questioning. No I completely agree i. Condemn every parent like I I've known people that. They, they they've done things like that where they're just like they've kicked their kids out of the House for Being homosexual or or something like that, and those are the people I go to just like. You're not a Christian that's that's not how this thing works I think people abuse. The Bible I think people. Abuse Christianity Look at the Crusades. The Crusades or people that they were doing stuff in the name of God and it's just false. It's just wrong. It's not what Christianity is supposed to be so that I WANNA get into that with you next I, Wanna I wanNA tap into this I wanna get your take on these types of things I. Want to get your take on when cry don't answer yet when Christians have a seventeen, eighteen year old kid who says that they're gay or says that they don't want to go to church anymore or that they don't believe anymore I want to know what your advice is to Christians out there listening. And I've had multiple questions on the show were asked that question and I've got a plethora of answers and I also just for fun WanNa get your take on the anti-massacre episode. I just did I wanNA see we`re On all of that, if you're not gonNA, follow us for the rest of this conversation at Patriot Dot com slash David C smalley at least go watch his tick. Docs. It's bought by blood three, sixteen everybody else drive like you know each other we're headed over to patriots dot com slash David C smalley right now.

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Bethesda Showcase, Quakecon Canceled - Kinda Funny Games Daily 04.01.20

Kinda Funny Games Daily

1:08:58 hr | 1 year ago

Bethesda Showcase, Quakecon Canceled - Kinda Funny Games Daily 04.01.20

"What's up everybody? Welcome to kind of funny games. Daily for Wednesday April first twenty twenty. I'm one of Your House Greg Miller alongside the rogue one at Gary Widow. I'm back baby Gary What happened. Your hair shaved it off. Why because I don't give a fuck anymore. Nobody cares anymore. I've actually I've wanted to do it for a long time but I've always thought about if it looks bad. There's a meeting I don't have to explain myself but you know we leaving age right now. Where no one gives a flying fuck about anything right now. Sure so why not give it a try and I gotTa tell you like? I'm like how long how long's it been this way for about a week? I think I have to shave every couple of days to stop it from coming back in but I keep it trying to keep it all the way down. Keeping this is this is it. I'm there's no going back this never growing your hair. This is it. This is the new. Look -rageous I I like I did your hair you look and you look good by the way Greg Miller. I don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable. You own everything you've convinced me to keep in. That's fine that's fine. I'm not trying to win you over. I'm just I think when you see in the flesh upland we're able to get back together new able to see it and touch it and smell it and experience it for yourself. You get better. I don't know here's the big question. I was the first 'cause you're going to with it. Lex Luther or Uncle Fester who over? I haven't I haven't gone any I haven't had any Uncle comments did get law. Lex Luthor and I did I kid. I was very pleased. I got a lot of Compliments on like the geometrically pusher of my head. I was worried I have like weird dense and novels and things underneath their hurts It's actually like almost like this geometrically perfect hemisphere. I've said for years ever perfect skull. Who knows hiding my light under a Bushel? Can you on the other thing? Is You know. I increasingly bad bolt spot in the back of my head. I really love started to feel very self conscious about in recent years. Didn't like it so I basically just nuked the site from orbit. Sure it's the only way to be sure but now do you have this weird thing where it has the because you can't go outside that much either so like is it one tan spot in Whitehead. No it's awesome. It's like you you tell me. Full like getting. Yeah now Kevin asking you to take your headphones down like do one of these things like taking them forge in his show your symmetric Jordi La Jolla on the. Yeah I WANNA make fun of metrically perfect head. I'm telling you Kevin is cute. This file me. You remember that movie limitless where he takes that pill that makes him limitless huber the equivalent light instead of taking a pill of shaved my head and remember that limitless was a movie only you and I saw and then somehow got made into a TV series as well. Bradley Cooper showed up on for an episode. That was I remember that because it was in the same universe. It wasn't like it was crazy. Digressing I'm thinking about doing the show from home by the way Greg because I can see the twitter chat. I've got the twitter chat open. Don't get distracted. I know how you are shiny things all right but give also here with me problem. I get you an IPAD with the twitter chat. Once WE GO BACK TO THE OFFICE. You never upcoming so. I don't know he's he's never brought up remember. He's the one who wants to paper still. He doesn't want he doesn't want any of the technological things the real thing. I can see not piece of paper. Kevin can't fuck that up if he gives me gives me an IPAD or a laptop. It's GonNa go go Kevin about it. It's all gone Klavan a piece of paper number times. We have lots to talk about today including not doing its traditional showcase. You get a bunch of games cheap and it's April fool's Day so don't believe God damn thing you read because this is kind of funny games daily each every week Dan variety of platforms we flat for his platforms. We run you through the video game news. No you like that. Be Part of the show. Patriots dot com slash. Kind of funny games. You can ask us your questions. Give us your comments. Leave your concerns and of course squat up however the most important thing over a patriot dot com slash. Kind of Funny Games is your ability to get the show ad free and get it with that big post show. We do each and every day however if you have no bus toss our way and support us. It's no big deal. You can watch the show for free over on twitch dot TV slash kind of funny games. You can do a special job while you're there. If anything wrong you need to Kinda funny dot com slash Yoron and tell us what we screw up as we screw it up. Plus if you're on twitch remember you probably have Amazon Prime. You have a free thirty day subscription. It would love it if you gave it to us. Kind of funny games. However if none of that works for you you can still watch the show on YouTube dot com slash kind of funny games risk dot Com and listen on Papa services around the globe each and every weekday gotta say Your Hands Looking. Good thank you. I just gotTa Cut. I don't know if you noticed. How did YOU CUT YOUTUBE DOT com slash? Kind of funny. You can come watch my wife. Cut Her for the first time she did on the PODCAST available now youtube dot com slash kind. I'm thinking about going over to their house and getting a cut to having you come over this thing now. It's one or two people fine as we're fine. You know what I mean. I don't even. I don't even want to know what you're getting to during the day. You know what I mean. You're don't even lie to me. Tell me you're not interacting with the people I know you you're over with people. The people have been. I've heard hammers all over the place. We're not touching. There's no looking involved. There's none I wish I could believe what I doubt. You've hired a contractor and have not liked him once a housekeeping for you yesterday boss baby bear coordinated a persona five royal livestream on twitch. It turned into Acuna Alabama Persona Five. You can check it out right now. The archive YouTube dot com slash. Kind of funny games breaking news for you. You're irregularly scheduled programming. We have cool. Friends will return Friday and the guest will be Troy Baker. If you WANNA get your questions in for Mr Troy basic you who I know right you can head over to you to earn a Patriot dot com slash kind of funny and put in your questions now just like people. Patriot producers went to a Patriot dot com slash. Kind of funny games in support US last month. That's right April. I knew month Producers this month's Kinda Games daily producers are Mohammed Mohammed. Moma AL tribesmen the Predator. And of course blackjack. Today we're brought to you by animal crossing mornings on twitch dot TV slash geary widow Gary. We'll tell you about that later for now. Let's begin the show with what is and forever will be a rope report. Did it did the dude? That time for some knitted Baker's dozen. Gary we start with sad news. I mean not sat in the way of like many sad stories are happening but in our little video game world sadnesses. Bethesda saying that. There's no showcase in June and no quake con- We'll start with. Pete hines of course friend of the show is we have friends is up as well in very enlightening where he talks about. What they're tinkering around with for their upcoming either showcase even those ninety three but you know exactly what. I'm talking about P. tweeted this morning. Given the challenges we're facing do the pandemic. We will not host the digital showcase in June. We've lots of exciting things to share with share about our games and look forward to telling you more in the coming months then that was followed up with a statement on quake con from Software Mbatha software to all our friends in the quake community. Quaco has always been a special event for us and you a time when we gather together to play. Games and bill bonds that for some have lasted a quarter century. Now in recent weeks we spend a Lotta time discussing how we might still move forward with quickcam this year particularly given that it's the twenty fifth year of the event however with all the with all the logistical changes. I apologize and uncertainties we currently face to cove in nineteen pandemic. We've made the difficult decision to cancel the quake on the health and safety of our employees. Volunteers vendors sponsors. An players will always be our top priority and in these times it felt wrong to be talking about a gathering when Ga- gathering is the last thing. Any of us should be doing right now. While we don't know what the state of the pandemic will be this August. We do know it will not be possible to compete complete the work and planning with our partners vendors volunteers in others that is required to make Khanna success. We thank you all especially the volunteers for all of your work in building and supporting this event year after year we hope to work with you to come up with other ways to celebrate the spirit of quake this August and we look forward to return of this amazing event next year until then be safe. Look after each other in play games. Peace love and rockets in software it software and Bethesda soft works Gary. What's your initial reaction about these? Sorry to see that quite content be happening. But of course it's inevitable at this point any large gathering the waiting for the other shoe to drop anymore like the shoes of old dropped. When when is the announcement going to be allowed? Anybody like twenty four hours ago. It was going. Gee I show. Her quite con is going to happen. Like everybody knows it wasn't going to happen. It was just a question of when they were gonNA make the formal announcement sack is a great event. We went we having this year in terms of the Bethesda Showcase Greg Yeah It seems like they could have done a lot of companies in the absence of a going to be doing which is pivot to some kind of digital version of that event. Why do you think they're not doing that? That's an interesting question and I think the answer. Is that what we've already talked about so much but again what I've and I don't even I'm not trying to. Greg was right thing but the ripples on this right of not knowing sure. Let's think about the event. Fine but what is the logistical time line? What are the structures for getting these games done? How have they all been impacted? Yeah you can come out and still do this. But if you'RE GONNA come out in every game is going to be like. Here's half of what we wanted to show you from Tokyo ghost wire. It didn't because of the work from home they didn't finish the cinematic or this and we don't know when it's coming out and it's like right now. I think the way pete phrases it right like we've lots of exciting things to about our games and look forward to telling you more in the coming months to me. What this speaks to is the best case. Scenario for our Games is the handle him game by game in that. Is that when we have ghost wire locked into whatever milestone it needed to be Abbas presentation you know when we wanna tell when we actually know now the ramifications of this? We have a release date for death. Loop when whatever's going on with falls seventy six whatever's going on with a star field. I think you'll get those just as drops. Now that actually speak to what's going on because I think the biggest problem we've always had with E. Three ripe is companies coming out in over promising. And that's worked before because you know your team you know the schedule even if you push date that's no big deal. It's a brave new world here right. It's terrifying and you don't know what this work from home. A strategy everyone has moved to is going to have in terms of PRUSSIAN pipelines. Right and I. I don't WanNA sound terribly cynical. I'm going to anyway. I wonder if Bethesda consider this like an opportunity to dodge a bit of a bullet like the public public. Reputation is so bad right. Now based on you know the full out seventy six debacle and various other things that that the decisions choices have made in recent months a really angered consumers. I wonder if not doing a public event right now. They almost consider that like I said like they dodged a bullet like do they really want to be going in front of the public right now. 'cause it's Kinda hard for Pete. Hines taught how to get up and go. Hey everybody everything's great and to kind of do the the thing that they do when we kind of know that everything in the in the pathetic God is not great right now. Well I mean yes and no I think that would I think when we talk about their weakness right. It's seventy six and I think with waste landers coming out knock on wood next week or I'm starting next month. Got Party coming out this month in just a few weeks right after being delayed already you wonder if they were to nail that that would give them a high. No you you. I think we're talking at a very. I think we're talking about it as people who are in the Shit every day talking about Bethesda or whatever and what's going on but it is important to think if you're a consumer right. You're coming off do maternal one of the best rated games of the year right. Yeah that's true that everybody loved it if in granted keep to keep in mind waistline. Here's what's supposed to be spall right last year. If that comes out it doesn't fix five seventy six. 'cause he falls seventy six is not the fallout people. Want people wanted a single payer fault. They didn't get it. But if it comes out and delivers is revamping. The main question is dropping in actual. Npc's inquest lines in romance options. And stuff like that comes out and gives them. Hey this is the New Vision for fall at seventy six in. Its well received by both. The people who are still play falls six in than the people who bought it and want to play more like myself that be another one of like. Hey like I was thinking of it from messing conference where it would be peed on stage. It would be so do. Maternal was great. Let's look at some deal. See we have four. I'm making that up this ball. Seventy six you know it's been another. It's been another year for fall at seventy six. Last year we came out. We said all right up. We didn't do it for you. Know a fall out. I wasn't super well received. And like its massaging the PR MESSAGE. Right and then having something big to do it like. I don't think they're anywhere. Bethesda person not personality. But does this image isn't nearly I think it's tarnished as somebody like ea right. I know even that's apples and oranges. Because he as been fucked from the get but I mean like specifically with anthem where like anthem steal. When that comes up just gets beaten to death and there's always anthem death watches and Yadda Yadda falls. Seventy six is very much like yeah. It was broken this fuck. It launched what they've done a bunch to it and play with it sound for me as obvious anymore. It was like the fucking one that really fucked everything up like the analogy is a good one like Bethesda and by way right to triple A. List developers right to the two developers that between the brought them some about all time favorite games who both coincidentally at the same time roughly the same time with anthem with flat sending two very very big public flops veteran. Yeah yeah totally shit the bed and now they're trying to dig themselves out of that hole anthem. You know the completely rebuilding it. I think that that's great. I hope that they have a noman skies style redemption narrative. Love to see that and I hope that can do the same with full that seventy six but right now they're in a hall there in a Pr Hall. Sure and when when Pete was on friends. This is something we talked at length about. You know the last time he had come on rusty now. I want to say it. It was basically two and a half years since his last appearance in his last appearance was another one on one with me for a games gas and it was literally like having this conversation. About how only shipment but fezzet can do no wrong right. You're on this upswing. Your your you've made the statement that you are one of the big publishers. You need need three conference in all these different things in the we have cool friends with. Pete was very much a different tenor of like. Aren't you guys got knocked in the dirt and like how do you pick yourself up from that in having really frank answers for all those things? When even when I tried to massage like FAW seventy six? He's like you. You can stop. It wasn't good. I watched that interview and he seemed very kind of unrepentant on. I know that wasn't very well received in some quarters. Some people felt that he made matters worse with with some of the ways that he communicated Bethesda permit position again. That's that's all just noise. Ultimately what matters is the gangs? Can they fix the Games? And I hope it says the conflicts. Full out seventy six. I think in terms of this particular issue talking about why why not go to a digital event any any Bethesda event whether it's digital or in front of people right now they would have to do two things one is. They have to address the elephant in the room. They have to be a bit contrite. About full out seventy sixers. They have been in the positive. I look here are the moves that we're making to fix it and hopefully try and turn that ship around but also look forward and say hey look. We just had a big hit with doom. It's all and he has some other great stuff. We have coming out of and try to get people to look forward rather than focusing on the mess. They're in right now so I if that's an opportunity for them wondering why the not doing what everyone else is doing which is at least to a digital event. They could go borrow those cardboard cutouts remarks. Ernie you know an put him in the front with Mystery Science Theater and and have you know. Todd hines a sorry. I'm Pete Hines I taught Howard Stab behind the digital podium. Or whatever they could do that they've made a strategic decision not to. I just think it's the realization that they will not be June showcase ready. I think this is thrown enough off in terms of trailers in terms of vertical slices in terms of and again to the point. Even we're talking about you know it was a news story earlier and it will be question later on that like you know what was it either. The beginning. It was the beginning of this week. Right Monday I read the news story about like final. Fantasy might be coming early to Australia in Europe because of this right because the pyrite in square was very much like. Hey we don't know we WANNA make sure people get this in these territories. This is the best chance of getting it and yesterday people got their copies right. It wasn't like no one knows how any of this actually works. Feels like in terms of what this world is anymore and so I think this is them being like. What do we get out there and say like do it? We don't want to just do trailers. We WanNa have hard facts and you don't know if you you're not worried about the game being delayed are like are you manufacturing this? The same way are there. Is there a backup on that? What in now. I'm totally one hundred percent out there on A. I don't know anything I'm just saying but in conversations is A. Ps five an xbox series x going to be delayed or they're gonNA be fewer of them. Both those things I mean could clearly influence you in what you're GONNA do with your game if you're if death loop is a next. Gen game like Shit. Fuck do we need to hold off? Because they're not gonNA calls. I mean current of ours is obviously upended. Everything and again just sticking with the Bethesda presentation if you're saying that they don't think they would have been ready for June. Did Corona virus conveniently provide them some covering because a currency? We can't do it but if current of ours had never happened and they still wouldn't have been ready and they said well. We're not going to showcase eat three let we do every year. That seems like that would have thrown up more of a flag wouldn't it? Oh totally. Yeah but I don't think that's what we're dealing with. I mean it could be your. It could be a convenient excuse of like this. This fell through. The Falcons is going to be weak year for conference. Oh well this is happening great. I think it's more likely though. That's just like every working home now. They don't have the right timelines. And who's doing what and what's GonNa be ready in. What about release dates and where it will fuck as counsel to put on like. I think there's just so much ambiguity right now that it's just the best case scenario for a lot of people to sit there and still like to the point of what he's saying in his statement right still do things still like. Hey we're going do have something for deathly by filling here. They do a trailer. They do a drop. They do something maybe they do. Smaller Bethesda showcases where it is. What's Iran Pete Hines? I'm here with the developer. Whoever they're going to say about their game I don't know it's a new world gary do we. I mean I I have not really been following the Games News as much as I would. Because there's obviously so much other news in the world to keep on top of it and a lot of animal crossing. Thank thank God for that game. That game should be covered by health. Insurance it really has become so important to the mental sanity in my house Do we have any more clarity on what this new digital three is gonNA look like or are we still going to go? That was the big thing yesterday where games com was able to come out and be like. Hey James Caan is happening from these dates. Even if it's just digital showcase Monday nights gonna be opening night live. We are locked in ready. There will be a games. Come no matter what. And it's like okay. Oh that's a really great messaging. Hayy three who cancelled his show three weeks ago. Do anything more to say about your show. That's supposed to be served. This is just the skull. The I'm hearing behind the scenes. Yeah is that they're they're they're flailing around and a lot of the media outlets who are exposed a lot of the big media outlets have to build their plans around what is going to be right. Scheduling Times logistics. My understanding is that the media outlets are not hearing the information they need to know from the essay in order to be ready to cover this event properly and that's communication issue of ESPN. I don't know what the fuck they're doing. That's been proven time and time again. That right now. When do they banned you exactly right? I'm not afraid to say it. Everybody all right no. I think it's multiple things on threes front and I think it's Interesting case of games com yesterday versus three today where because Games com is showing that they have plan they have ideas they still have a structure. I think people are going to be more willing to work within their rules whereas Ese going. Oh shucks there's no he three anymore. Suddenly everyone both publishers developers. And press like you're talking about these outlets that make money off it. I think also look at each other and go away. Why the fuck do we need that like? Do you do you think. Think that if I if I'm Jan and like right now the biggest question that could be answered so easily and hopefully behind closed doors for a site like a janitor. Whoever who's working on big old shows right is Microsoft winter. You doing yours you doing something. But that's just off the board now Nintendo like everybody holds to their normal time slots for their direction. Press conferences in there all be digital. Obviously also then I G N two Wednesday Thursday. If they really want to go that hard sit there and plan shows that are nine. Am to five PM. Right that our SKYPE INTERVIEWS. Like this with debs debs doing their own demos putting all that stuff up there and then what what is. GonNa have any kind of an exclusive range that gene or anybody? Any of us we have to worry. I think the media outlets are doing in the absence of any messaging from the just working directly with the publishers develop goes you can trust the ES. I it's kind of coordinate. Any of this stuff so they just going straight to the source. Yes one hundred percent in that it'd be fascinated digital three. Looks like it's GonNa be fascinating to save at least number two on the Roper report continuing on with. Obviously all these are probably code related. Wbz'S GONNA start seeming matches and having superstars commentating this girl over at Gamespot ww two K twenty and some of the brands most iconic wrestlers are coming together to entertain you during your Cova a twenty or your corona virus cove in nineteen quarantine. The Debbie Dream match. Menia event will simulate matches between some of the biggest wrestlers in history and will have commentary from real. Wbz Superstars to back it. Up Airing April second at ten. Am Pacific Time on WBZ's platforms as well as youtube twitter twitter and facebook. Wwe Dream match. Menial will consist of six simulated matches. Roman reigns versus the rock with commentary from Jimi Nj Russo. Sasha banks versus Trish stratus with commentary from Sasha banks and Bailey John Versus Hulk with commentary from our truth and Drake Maverick Seth rollins versus ric flair with commentary from Johnny Gargano. And Adam Cole Charlotte Flavors Beth. Phoenix commentary from both wrestlers. And then Goldberg. Verse Biggie. With commentary from Biggie and Kofi Kingston the kids screaming outside or on Mayan alongside ww network and its own platforms. You'll be able to watch the event up down down social media platforms up down down it. This is my favorite line because I think they missed a step here up up down. Down is the gaming channel run by Xavier Woods otherwise known as Debbie. Wb superstar Xavier Woods. Nice Austin creed otherwise but it doesn't matter I'm having fun. This is one of the normal ones of how the world tries to shift to deal with this in having your games. Play a part in it. Obviously we've seen this with the NHL. We've seen this with the NBA. Phoenix Suns infamously now playing out their season on twitch and having fun with that or simulated games at least. I put this one here. 'cause adding it's cool right. I think it's a cool way. Article Wrestling is in a very weird spot. As the world but to do these matches then have real wrestler. Sit there and talk over the simulations that seems like an idea I think the wwe has quite rightly over. The years earned itself a very very mixed reputation. But I think that they've had to say the least carried. I think I think they've handled this fairly well. The the The Empty Stadium matches the day to actually kind of like eerily cool in a weird way. I don't know if you saw John Cena during his whole thing in promos. I'm definitely GONNA I'M GONNA get signed backup to the network for Wrestlemainia because I want to watch that because when you if you're like any athlete or you like a wwe superstar when you're in the arena. You're feeding off the energy of the crowd right so to be able to do that without any of the crab. It's just like address wrestling. It's weird but they've done great so that worked while doing kind of the virtual version of the sport the NBA have done that with some success. We've seen other sports. Doing the current of ours is. It's a terrible terrible situation. That rule living through right now but they have been bright spots as we see light lifelines away humanity. Finds that technology finds a way to to Kinda keep things ticking over e even even in a weird way then they're not using. Wwe Twenty Twenty. Though they they are they. Are they fix that game yet? Because it's not enough to where they're not afraid to show it. That's the thing. They're watching their comedy. I don't obviously I know nothing about it there commentating over simulated matches so you would hope that they when. Trish stratus goes through the floor and starts flailing around comments on that. That would be great. Yeah I would assume these are going to be very These will be cherry-picked match. Also I don't know how much patch since that that launch. That was obviously a piece of garbage. Oh yeah terrible number. Three here on The rope report more cove updates. These are covert quick hits. Are you ready Gary Woulda? I'm ready I. We have more on UBISOFT initiative from yesterday This is from Logan planted. I John Gary yesterday on the show. I talked a bit about how Ghost recon breakpoint was doing this. Friend Pass and some free trials and my question to Enron was. Why are more at the skulking in the background is cracking me up so yeah listen to you and try and try? Scooby Doo behind you. Gary Says Hi from Games. Sorry she makes an appearance on the kind of funny podcast haircut. Yes it was Enron. I was talking about the fact that ghost recon doing this. F retrial. This free pass and I was asking. Why aren't more games doing this right and Iran tossed out? He's like Oh yeah. Raymond is kind of free to. I missed this story that I guess pop yesterday. Logan Plant wrote it up while we were off air so I just want to read. These forecast expected but about it. Okay you off announced it will provide a month long series of free game trials discounts in other offers to support people staying home during the Kobe. Nineteen outbreak the promotion begins with Rayman legends. Which is available to download and keep for free beginning today? March thirty first until April third. The game is free through you play and is available to download with no cost on. Pc ubisoft said that offers from other popular franchises. Such as just dance an assassin's creed will be announced later in April on ubisoft website as for free trials us off is currently offering trials of. Ghost RECON breakpoint trials rising the crew to ghost recon wild lands and the division with many trials available on consoles in addition to PC. So number one. I WanNa talk about to give you the full picture that story because I didn't have it yesterday but number two awesome to see their expanding to so many things. I have to imagine. Gary you're GONNA see a lot more games. Do this during this downtime right. I hope I hope so. I hope. I hope that this doesn't last. So long. That we that we need to see lots of companies doing it th th th. This is a sooner rather than later. And in the meantime yeah. There's a positive this nice to be positive about a story right now. I this is. This is a nice move by the companies can afford to do it. Why not everyone stuck at home? We we've seen all the metrics that game he's GonNa like seventy five percent people at home that playing games. They want stuff to play now. Everyone's got a massive backlog. You know exactly what games out up to play. So they're looking for new things to play. Not everyone can afford to splash the cash on games right now especially times for everyone right now so I was talking about yesterday. I'd like to see this. I hope people follow it. I hope more of the Games people are already connected especially as we talk about these ripples right in that it probably won't like April seems like it's going to be the tipping point and then beyond that will be out how many things are delayed. I hope you see Games. That are that your games a service. Fortnight Borderlands. Dc UNIVERSE AMMOS warcraft. Already seen some of them as pointed out yesterday but more of them do the double. Xp Here's something else you know. Keep you coming back reason. It's a positive move. It's good. Pr For the company's. Why not do it? GonNa say something that you'll you'll you'll never hear me say on this on this on this show. Well Don corporations playing well done corporations number two in your Kobe crickets rockstars donating five percent of in Game Rib Honest. Here comes their statement. The ROCKSTAR Games community is at the center of everything we do. We love seeing players immersed exploration of our virtual worlds in connecting with each other through them as our teams navigate. These difficult times. We see our local communities across North America the U. K. India and beyond being deeply affected small businesses close their doors and communities who rely on government provided support that they cannot access are struggling. The road ahead will be challenging. We WanNA do. We want to help where we can't starting April first and continuing through the end of May five percent of our revenue from purchases in our online games. Gte Online and read dead online will be donated to cove. In nineteen relief efforts. These funds will be used to help local communities and businesses struggling with the impacts of coq nineteen both directly and by supporting some of the amazing organizations who are on the ground helping those affected by the crisis crisis as things progress. We will share more on these efforts. Thank you for your support. And we wish you and your family's health and safety the Rockstar Rockstar. Games team again. Good on them right gary well done rockstar. I mean some. I argue the the I I don't want to sound ungrateful but some argue. That five percent is pretty like why not? Why not a little bit more? You know these companies make so much money but look rockstar makes so much money selling all this digital content Five percent is probably. I never tell us the numbers that I probably works out to be a decent chunk of money. Yeah I it's always that thing where I think it's always. The grass is always greener from the other side. Where you look at that. They do more and I mean maybe they could but I'm sure they've also run the numbers. I'm sure they've they also have a team of people to take care of right employees. Take care of. And what are the hits going to be like? We're talking about on our own right of like you know okay. Well IF PATRIOTS GONNA go down will live. But what does that look like again? It's not even worried about what the number is right now. How much you're making on digital goods. It is the thing of cool more people at home playing but are more people at home spending as well or is it just going to be them getting on doing things you know? I think it's good. I think it's good again. The the people are saying well. Why isn't it more excited? They could they could have just sat there and done nothing but they chose to do something. The only benefit to them is like a nice little. Pr Hit maybe. Maybe a few more people by their deals awesome. It's going to help help fights code. Nineteen they need to do this but they did. I'm not I'm not going to be one of these people that finds the negative and everything. I'm GonNa say this was a positive move by Rockstar. Good for them. I hope every penny of that five percent goes toward helping people affected by this Speaking of helping people affected by this. There's a cove in one thousand nine humble bundle bundle. This is Chris Rea. Gm a new humble bundle just went up today. And it is a doozy. It comes with forty four games. A documentary series twenty-six Books Comics audiobooks plus a free month of humble choice for new members. The games include bottom classics hollow night under tail into the breach. In more on the book side you get volumes of comics like locking key the Boys Saga Bucking Saga folks. That's late awesome criminal in spawn. If purchased separately the total would come to over one thousand dollars. But all you need to pay is thirty dollars. Plus one hundred percent of the proceeds go to organizations helping fight Kobe. Nineteen that's an amazing bundle. Where is that again? That's humble bundle. That's incredible isn't double fine doing something as well. I think that they announced doing something maybe doing them. They probably the knowing them. They definitely have. But I don't have any information I saw Tim tweet something about it yesterday. What CHECK TWITTER COUNCIL? See what they're up to as well because I think a bunch of their old games together in a bundle okay. You're going to charity flashy wrong. I'll take your yeah you're wrong. Let's let's get a confirmation on that speaking of things coming in from your wrong. This is Breaking News Gary so I'm GonNa put this number four now moving into number five Rt X. has officially tweeted. We have not finalized all the details to announce but the news is out. Architects Austin is moving to Labor Day weekend. September fifth. Through the Seventh Twenty Twenty we will offer refunds and your current purchase badge will be valid for the rescheduled event all. Et details will be coming soon. The safety of our attendees staff and everyone involved in the event continues to be our top priority. We will update on the enhanced cleaning and other measures that will implement it at RT X. So I know that was popping off in your wrong. I saw go through the chat as well. There you go but even then Gary do you. Do you believe September fifth will be back doing live events? I that's what I was thinking while you were reading. Let's let's let's let's talk knock on wood. Let's just hope that the we're out of the woods by September. Yeah we can have these kind of events again. Yeah I mean. How far off do you think because I was hearing on the news today right California's supposed to make an announcement about school years today. Right if this was actually made yesterday school year is done. There's no one's going to school the school year and You know we we. It's it's GonNa be a what we're we haven't hit bottom yet you know it's GonNa get was I I've said it. Sometimes ammoniac hearing what the experts are saying. It's going to continue to get worse. I think you know as they said yesterday the next few weeks. I think I'm going to be absolutely appalling. And all we can do. Is that the lie remaining states Florida. Wake the fuck up. What are you doing? Where's your show to replace order? Why why are people still crowding into churches and restaurants and on the beaches you? You'RE GONNA fucking wipe out your state. What Ron Sanchez? Wake the fuck up and closes down now before you kill half your fucking population California has a flat curve than most others right now. Because we're staying when doing the things that people are asking us to do the remaining states that haven't yet done that. Needs to fucking wake up and stay home and if they do that maybe maybe by September. We'll be talking about what a crazy time. We all lived through. But if we don't God God only knows. Yeah Yeah Redo your stay home in kind of funny Kasha Wrong Annabel. Nato biologist. Has it finds deal during Kobe. Nineteen battle your social isolation doldrums while helping. International Kobe relief efforts with this incredible humble. Bundle over one thousand dollars of game. Software shows in e-books there. I think when we read so I think it's time promoting the one. We just did a chat right now and it's apparently that double fine. Some of the double twist bundle the Humble Bonnie you referred to and also the CIA is telling me that the shelter in place to stay home. Would've Florida has now been announced happening. Why we're on the air so well done Florida better late than never crossing the finish line when you can. I said Weldon corporations in world on Florida in the second you know we live in crazy times. Greg Wasn't insane times to be alive or an hour gay. What is doing this And then finally on the Roper important number five we have some April fool's updates. The aren't April Fools Day jobs. No I hate the worst year for this but hey shout out to the people for the most part I would say you haven't seen the normal stuff I glanced at. Iga Today and Gamespot. I surely saying gene. I glanced GM. Because I looked at gamespot. I digress. Gene usually a April fools day thing. I looked at that and see it. I didn't see them trying to do anything goofy. It seems like my twitter feed has mostly been not goofy however people are doing updates for their games to celebrate the holiday. Here we go pokemon go. This is from cabinet gamespot. April has arrived in the antics kicking off a month with a new event in Boca Mongo the tricky pokemon event underway for a limited time and introduces a new Gen. Five Pokemon to the game as well as a couple of new shiny forms until ten PM local time on April seventh pokemon that specialize in mini mini cry such as Volt Orb Ditto Sudoku and foon. Goose will appear wild more than often. You also have a chance finding shiny versions of sue wound do and in this event overwatch cracking me up man. I try while I'm trying to give you the best. I can't fucking God. Damn Su Su comes into an audio clip of that. That's fucking great. New Sued Doodoo over watches adding googly. Eyes this overwatch is always provided a steady stream of free updates and add limited. Tha that ad limited time events and new characters but the latest may be the greatest yet. An April fool's Day update to the game appears to be keep all the regular game playing systems intact but adds a little something special to each character googly eyes. Yes like the plastic. Is You get from the craft store? Finding this is an interesting one combining both this story and the one before it Gary. A totally accurate battle simulator wants you to pay for bugs developer landfall. T- behind totally accurate battle. Simulator has done the unthinkable today in shift a buggy deal see with the team being completely aware of how terrible content is all these known ship. Ables make totally accurate battle simulator game known for his groundbreaking physics engine in realistic simulations. Completely unplayable for its rabid player base landfall developers behind the wildly successful totally accurate. Bazzi Miller have released today. Their annual April fool's spoof which historically has been there moment to release the majority of their games or mods and last year for a whole a whole damn game incredibly popular totally total body simulator. Which hasn't families who are formula players? But most importantly for every copy of the deals he stole every copy of the DLC sold on steam and the EPA game store half the proceeds will be going to doctors without borders through throughout April. First Twenty twenty it will become available for free so it totally goofy patch for the hardcore here right if people who want to break their game but then also it's going to be free you have to pay for it after the fact but if you did pay for it. You're supporting Doctors Without Borders. So we'll circle cool enough idea. You know what I mean. Yeah I think a lot of people were kind of dreading April. Fool's gags this. I mean we do every year right because they were always there just lame. I dread April first because the pranks and the and the they're not they're usually not that great and this year. I know a lot of people took a second look at whether or not they wanted to do the mountains. So is the question. People are going to be more or less in the mood for this kind of Tomfoolery. With everything the world is going through right now. You know it's one day some silly gags. It's not you know it's it's not the end of the world But I I just outside of all of the current of our stuff I would. I would be perfectly happy to see that tradition. Come to an end. That'd be. We don't have a sense of humor Greg. But because I do and I recognize when things aren't funny that's why I'm Kevin's comedy advisor. He's comedy mental. It's because I know I know I didn't realize he had this. Oh yeah he's coming. He's The bug thing. It's it's because the but blood related the plug thing that the sonic costumes. The cats along cats the plug. None of that stuff would have happened if it wasn't for me. Some of the greatest kind of funny comedy highlights in the past year. All down to me you know. I don't like reading the chapter in the show. But King Franchise eighty-eight says Gary Wood is the funniest man alive and I think you can put that on a shirt and sell that he. He's not wrong. Usually you should do it kind of funny t shirt that that would be a top seller for you greg. Gary what is the funniest man alive? Yeah that would be a top seller. I guarantee it if only because all by hundreds of them Greg I would I would definitely I would probably I would probably ask Joey to send me one of those for free but you know bind would be no. I wouldn't buy it and I'll see you. This is one of the working from home things. Would you buy it? Let's see we got going on who you call it now remember. They can't hear you gary. Who are you calling? They came here you. Who were you calling? This is Greg Miller. Not Picking up whoever smart but also there sleeping. I'm trying to call Andy. But he sleeps all day long. And he goes light streams I know he does and he sleeps but I wanted to make the shirt you got utah. Afraid it's GONNA be like Andy Cortez's Greg Miller. You're on kind of Funny Games daily with Gary wooded. But you won't be able to hear them. We Andy You can talk to you. But he doesn't understand he knew. We need you to get to work on a shirt that says Gary widow is the funniest man alive because we think people would buy that kind of dot com slash store. And then we don't have to give Gary money because we just came up with it on our own properties so if you can come up with a good design for remember he's bald now shaved his head if you're GONNA put any actual gate with stuff in there. That's something this could go on on my bullhead. Gary says you can put it on his bald head then. That'd be like a way to do it. So yeah actually. Honestly if you have any of the jared art leftover just take off the beard glasses and you're good to go. I love you. Someone in the chat just suggested that we should Some some proceeds from the sale of that could go to cover nineteen as well which actually remember remember Andy is selling his own shirt Hit the first ever nitro rifle shirt very successful. Good friendy yeah. I don't have the link in front. Go to his go to Andy's twitter because I know he has it up. There's probably as pin tweet because he's smart twitter dot com slash maximum cortes. It is not his pin tweet. You scroll down there girl now. He's got it there. Oh here it is go to bonfire dot com slash nitro rifle. That's B. O. N. F. I R. E. dot com slash nitro rifle. Only nitrites shirt ever made? Ambi says his goal was to sell fifty nitro rifle shirts and donate all the money to give directly to benefit families impacted by cove in nineteen They've already sold two hundred thirty six. This is on March twenty eighth a lot more at the waiter. T shirt will easily outsell that. I'll make you that guarantee right now even have to buy them. Okay good. That's what I that's what I dear Gary Yes. I'm excited to see what this t shirt looks like. But that t shirts gonNA take so long to get made if I wanted something. More immediate say came to the MOM and grop shops. Where would I go the complete list of up and coming software as listed by the kind of Funny Games daily show hosts each and every weekday do do do how sorry Kevin? I didn't see her slack right there so I'm assuming it was. What do you want me to? Do you want me to do the ad thing before he what. What are you talking about what they let me? Send the link. Oh don't say the slack. Notifications Papa daily screen. It doesn't matter you know what I mean. I just wanted to pull up the Andes thing. Like since it's why don't I- dot com slash Nitra rifle at so many steps? You know what I mean. It's really not going to do today so while you do that on. Nitro rival out today lost artifacts golden island xbox one totally reliable delivery service on playstation four xbox one switch in and see whoo room. Ps four and switch stimuli on PC stacks on stax stax on PC easy puzzle. Bridges on P. C. Zeno PC call of duty mobile's new season started. It's called Steel Legion grip. Combat racing launches a surprise virtual reality update for windows. Pc then new dates for you. A TARARE has sold more than thirty million copies They've discounted game to fifty percent on steam until April Third Skate. Bird has been delayed until twenty twenty one as I read the terrarium thing. That should abandon deals apologize. I failed you. That was actually both deals. The Day terrarium has sold more than thirty million copies. It's discounted fifty percents team until April third another deal. The date set. Macy says Green man gaming currently has on sale a bunch of Bethesda Games including elder scrolls fall out Wolfenstein doom in way more. Psn's spring sale is going on right now. Discounting a bunch of video games. But you get days gone for twenty bucks and then playstation plus officially official finally remembered got leaked awhile back playstation plus for April here in north. America is uncharted for in dirt. Rally two point. Oh and Charlie was a nice one home I got one. That's the thing too is if you were on the ball and you've got The collection you know have every- uncharted game minus the veto. There you go you got everything you need and the veto one doesn't count. It does count. It was really good. Actually Golden Business. A lot of fun. Don't be like that all right. Go be like that Gary. You're better than that all right. Did you like me making fun of PC? Just don't do it make fun of Pc because this is the best camera remember when Gary's new PC broke for like rogue leaks out to be cabinet turned out to be a stock power button which was very easily fixed. And it's not been a problem since right right but it wasn't what I mean. Remember whatever river. He's like I don't need anymore. I'm going to do after this. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA go play. Duma turn resolutions and frame rates across but but but to make my point. Just pretend that I was going to do this. I'M GONNA go play due to maternal at frame rates and resolutions. The maybe maybe the playstation six dream about. I doubt your monitors even that good. Yeah exactly just say that right now. sound for reader mail. And we're not going to bring attention to this thing that you had me pull up. I've brought it attention to it multiple times. It's their people know they understand what's fun you fuck you indeed. Kevin. How don't fuck you remember. You can ride into patriots dot com slash kind of funny games with your questions. Comments concerns everything out of the game son but more importantly you get the show. Ad Free speaking of ADS. Greg Way. This episode Games daily is brought to you by animal crossing mornings on twitch dot TV slash. Gary would tell me all about crossing mornings. Well you know how much we will have. Animal Crossing avoided that game. Come out at the right time. It's it's a soothing balm that has helped many of us cope with the stress that we're going through right now. The whole family loves animal crossing. I've always liked Dynamo crossing but this is the first one that's really really good. Its teeth into me. So I've started a regular morning stream nine. Am Pacific time for one hour. At least every day twitch dot TV slash Gary with a I play animal crossing new horizons With with all my friends and it's a great way for me to start. They get sets me up for the day in a positive mood. If you come join me in the chat a planet crossing every morning at nine it might it might do the same for you succumb come join. The party comes to the island of Kawai and I think you will vary very much. Enjoy a starting a mornings with the best part of Waking. Up is soldiers in your cup. That's that's that's the old and the new version is the best part of Waking Up is watching Gary run around and oil and digging up fossils and complaining about fish so two things on number one PO. Show you're GonNa talk to me more about animal crossing because we haven't talked talked about animal crossing the right and then number two is homework for people who watched the show on Patriots obviously This week there was no official sponsor. So I've been doing goofy stuff Right every episode right. I've been having cool Greg. Not cut them out because they're not real ads. There's a horsing around do are you fine with that. Let me know Patriot people. I'll check the picture on page. I also just want to say right greg. I should not have to chat up because it's just annoying me. Someone just said Carey's aware of the fact that the new generation consoles will be faster than a PC. That's the dumbest fucking shit in my life. I better they're going to turn on. What is a P. C? What's that other specs? Pc How long has a piece of string? That's the dumbest Shit I've ever heard in my life and I guarantee you right now. The xbox series acts which I'm very excited about on the playstation five ain't GonNa be fucking files to the MY PC. If you're telling me what's in a playstation five is going to be a fucking off. I want what your smoking because you are fucking on the good stuff. That's a fucking joke. My PC will crush everything. That series. X playbill shitty will eat it and Shit in little console sized chunks. That is what my pc would do. So whoever suddenly he's I'm not gonNA name you don't WanNa share forgotten who you already but the idea that the new consoles will be faster than a PC is at least a dozen different ways. That ever in my life back to you greg biologist right seeing the patriots dot com slash. Kind of funny games. It says happy with a Wednesday Greg and Gary so when square annex said Australians would get their copies of final fantasy seven remake early. I didn't expect them to be two weeks before release yesterday. A lot of Australians were streaming final fantasy seven remake on twitch zero repercussions and it got me. Thinking should the general public beheld to embargo timelines if they get the game early should twitch me enforcing these timelines with the developers to help not let things leak early or is this just one of those rare times because of how she the world is that we should just let people chat about it even though even people who are under embargo but are currently playing the game finally. Is there any word on your end about if the embargo will be moved because the quick shift in the landscape with the general public gave copies early while? Y'All are still tied to a timetable on talking about it by August. Thank you for writing in. I think it's this is a multifaceted thing there's two different camps in things here number one at the long long short. T T L DR. This is such a once in a lifetime hopefully occurrence. This is so fucking weird that I don't think you can be mad or punish anybody about what's going on here right now Yeah Kovin sucks. Being locked in your house sucks to go. See your friends socks and the fact that this is fucked up video game pipeline and some people get early in some people. Don't have to wait to the regular date that sucks but it is just how it is on this one. That's not going to solve anything for anybody but whatever you know you make this thing. I've heard nothing about the review embargo for final fantasy seven remake being rematch or Ping remastered being moved You know I don't i. It is weird. Obviously like we do have it. We are playing it like. I think we're allowed to say that much. 'cause you're not supposed to hide your pin activity but it is that thing like okay cool. I don't know what that does for reviews in honestly and even for me like as the CEO kind of funny making shark contents great like it. I've seen happened and it's like oh man that does suck. I don't think it's GonNa if it the problem here becomes now. If you were to move the review embargo for final fantasy seven because of this you are going against what the embargo is in place for. You want it to be fair that everybody gets to review at the same time you want everybody to have the same deadline gets exclusive. You don't want people rushing it which would insert pinion. You also want that. Pr OF HEY BAM. The game is out every. Here's the game is. Here's the embargo from influences. You want trying to now verbally. Say that or send out your emails and change all that that is another huge fucking headache pipeline. Where think on this one use square just has to bite down and take it and be like all right cool. Australian Lada Europe. Have it early in the they're gonNA GO STREAM IT? Yeah and like could you reach out to twitch and do a bunch of stuff sure but even that rarely goes the way you want that usually is a PR fiasco that blows up in people's faces. I think they did the best they could and clearly not. It's impossible to have it work. But when they did say they were doing this they were like. Hey please don't stream this please. Don't ruin it for people. But people are jerks and not even jerks. Some of them are in a position of I'm a streamer and I have a relaxed. This game so yeah. I'm GonNa take this opportunity. They're not doing anything wrong. That is the there's the you can ask somebody not to do something like that but once you have the game you've paid for the game you're GonNa do what you WanNa do it same way. I feel honestly when Games are sold early that. I don't think it's weird that I think twitched. It's weird publishers. In which can work on that and be handed hand if they can't stream this time or this happens like that's weird. It's the same way of like how how weird it is about streaming persona like. It's just weird stuff gary I just don't care. This doesn't even crack the top one million things I care about. This is what I've talked about all week right where it's like. We have this video game show where we talk about very specific video game things but two steps away from it. It's like who the fuck cares like me. You're right and I come to it with this is against this issue and we care about video games and we talk about video games on this show at the same time going through what we're going through right now it's hard to separate that from the broader context and it does put things in perspective. It makes you realize that a lot of the stuff that we talk about on shows like this is fucking sir trivial like. It's in the in the broad scheme of things. It's really not that important. It's again games are important to us and we love but little things like this whether review. Bagua happens this week or next who gives a fuck. I don't that's what it's gotTa be right now. I I understand it sucks. 'cause you wait for that game. We've talked about this at length wanting to break the news. But yes that's how it's gotTa be Gary no-one's wrote into for squad up. We have a new patriot. Post up obviously It's April now and so there was one in there but it was a little too like just come to a channel like I'm not going to do that. So get in with your squad ups and stuff pay DOT COM SLASH. Kinda Funny Games kind of funny gifts. Then we don't have required reading but now we do and what is this is GonNa be interesting. It's required homework. I obviously have been hosting this show but sixteen minutes ago while we are alive. The One and only Jason Schreier Kentucky posted this sources. Despite huge sales borderlands. Three developers are getting stiffed on bonuses. I'm going to read to you. The first domino read a little bit. And I'll jump around but like this is something that night. I'm assuming we know it. Just it's required reading and we'll go from there. I don't know if it's news. Let's go the video game. Borderlands three was a big sale success when it launched last fall according to its publisher two K which described it as a billion dollar global brand. That's why it was shocking to employees gearbox the developer of the game when the studio CEO Randy Pitchford told them yesterday that they would not receive the significant royalty bonuses. They expected employees at the studio will get small bonus checks but nothing close to the tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands that many expected this account is based on conversations with six people close to gearbox all speaking anonymously because they were not authorized. Talk about what happened. Some said it was crushing news that has ended their financial plans for the future. Give I don't WanNa read the entire story because it's required reading. They have a common in here from gearbox. I'm going to read that. But this is all homer free. That's breaking to me as I read it too because it talks about what the pay structure is here. A fascinating fast. Jason Tries Work. Go read it. Actually go read it those first two graphs and what I'm already glancing at look like a fucked up situation. Everyone should go read what was the what was the rationale given by. Gearbox for not paying bonuses. That borland's didn't perform as well. There's a lot of giving all right ladies and gentlemen fucking. We're reading the entire article. We're just going to read to you all right. I'm down Gary Right now. I'm going to look at it as you look at it. We can just listen to my dulcet tones. I struggled fee words. Normal people don't gearbox based in Plano Texas offers employees offers its employees below She's got it wrong greatest Frisco Texas. This is why I'm reading it. No plano says he Frisco Texas where are you what graphics paragraph? Oh It's actually been updated because no it says he let me refresh. My definitely says Plano Texas. You're right. It did get refreshed okay. Gary don't be like that so you I'm getting. I'm getting the cabin correcting go. Fuck Yourself. That's what the article said. Gearbox based in Frisco Texas offers its employees below average salaries for the video game industry according to more than a dozen former gearbox staff who have spoken to over the years to make up for that the city offers something unique profit sharing royalties from all the developers games are split sixty forty with sixty percent going back into the company and its owners. While forty percent is distributed to employees in the form of quarterly bonuses. This system has been in place since gearboxes inception and when the company has big hits it can be lucrative when twenty massive borderlands two came out many gearbox workers a made enough money to buy houses a fact the studio often touted while recruiting new employees since then however gearboxes been struggling failing to find much financial success with flops like Alien Colonia Claudia Marines in two thousand thirteen in battle in two thousand sixteen as a result quarterly bonuses have been smaller in recent years in twenty twenty that was supposed to change several gearbox employees told guitar that company Management Promise Them Six figure bonuses following the launch of Borderlands. Three more years. They've been with the company. The largest check this vision of financial success helped gearboxes developers get through many long nights and weekends working on the game then in a meeting yesterday. Gearbox boss Randy Pitchford told employees that borderlands three bonus checks would be significantly lower than they hoped. According to three people who were present he said the game had been more expensive than expected. The company had grown significantly larger than it had been in the past parentheses. It now operates a second studio Comeback ended and that their sales projections had been off base. The game it sold well quote. We expect lifetime unit sales to be a record for the series said Strauss's L. Nick CEO of two K. Parent company take two on an earnings call on February but it costs way too much to make one. Large factor was technology. I I'm sorry. One large factor was a technology swap midway through development from unreal. Engine three to unreal engine. Four Which added a great deal of time to the project in addition before gearbox receive any royalties for publisher two K borderlands. Three we have to recoup not just the games entire budget around ninety five million dollars but also the budget for all the downloadable content for some closer to one hundred and forty million dollars. Thanks to a contract. The two companies had signed Pitchford also told gearbox developers that if they weren't happy with the royalty system they were welcomed quip according to those who were in the meeting he did not attribute the diminished bonuses to the corona virus pandemic which has led economic officer. Which has led to economic uncertainty and pay cuts in many other fields? He did say he hoped to get money. He did say he hoped to get more money to employees. As an advance from two K on future royalties when asked for comment gearbox in over the following statement Borderlands Three Represents incredible value to gamers and incredible achievement by the team of gearbox software. Our studios talent led and we believe strongly in everyone's sharing in profitability the talent at gearbox enjoys participation in the upside of our games to our knowledge the most generous royalty system AAA GAMING AAA. Since this program began gearbox talent has earned over one hundred million dollars in royalties bonuses above and beyond traditional compensation in the most recent pay period gearbox talent enjoyed news that borderlands in the most recent pay period gearbox talent enjoyed news borland's three having earned revenue exceeding the largest investment. Ever made by the company into a single video game had officially become a profitable game and the tail and a gearbox that participates the Rosie bonus system has now earned their first royalty bonus on that Prophet additionally. A forecast update was given. This is still a statement. Additionally a forecast update was given to the town gearbox that participates in the royalty bonus to set expectations for the coming quarters gearbox a private company that does not issue forward looking statements to the Public. But we do practice transparency with our own family. Then it's more. This is about all the trouble they had last year. Obviously with the lawsuit One of the it was taking a twelve million dollar bonus in two thousand sixteen starting a borderlands. Three the bonus didn't the bonus did exist. According to people's knowledge it happened but it came out of the companies sixty percent enough the forty percent that are meant to go to things still. Yesterday's news combined with word of pitchers hefty bonus has upset a number of gearbox employees. Some of whom say they expect an exodus in the near future. Those who made financial plans based on the expectations set by the company's management may now find themselves in tough spots gearbox which is privately owned has ebben seeking to go public. According to people familiar with the company plans. It remains to see how this news will impact that I talk for a long time. There's already but I did what you wanted. We read through. I officially retract my good corporations statement from earlier in the show. What do you make of this greg? This fucking sucks. Are you kidding me the thing about it? Because I'm Gary and I go on the record quite often with this. I'm a fucking Moron and I didn't go to business school so for me. The disconnect becomes. Why wait why? Wait this long to tell everybody that they're not getting the show. This is like fucking Christmas vacation with Chevy Chase right like why? Wait till the moment where these people think. They're about to get these giant checks to be like. Hey you're not going to get these giant checks because you're talking about one hundred and forty million dollars of production. How much it costs here. This contract they signed with two K. Like I'm not sitting here going. Oh Man Clearly. They have the money like clearly. Something went wrong along the way. But that didn't ever got communicated to people who are busting their acids in working doing crunch and everything else. I'll read this the first time at first blush issue with you so sorry if I'm misinterpreting something here that is like what the fuck. Why wait that long to tell them because again back the Chevy Chase analogy? I'm sure there are people that are like I'm going to buy a house when this comes. I can't wait to see what this you're seeing. That's this week's like lifetime unit sales to be a record of the series like you're walking away from that information with or that that statement and what you're seeing out there right like we're about to fucking make a killing on this in the not too kit make a killing fucking sucks then to have this let me. I'm scrolling back here right. Yeah Oh it's up here right this yeah Pitchford also told gearbox developers. They weren't happy with the royalties system. They were welcomed quit. What kind of fucking statement is that? If you're delivering this news you're crushing these people's dreams you're giving your delivering bad news period. Yeah if you if the bad news is justified not in a way that like whatever gearbox screwing over their comp their people because they're screwing over there people are Randy took all the money or whatever if it's just that hey guys let's talk brass tacks here like this is how much the game cost to make this much. This contractor does. This is what we actually have right now because the art of the statement and talk about them. The game is finally profitable right. We've turned the corner. We've made more than one hundred and forty million and I'm not a business person. I'm not including marketing. I'm not what we've made more than that so now it's time to start giving up these things. I guess that'd be bad news and you would deliver that in. I would personally deliver it as fast as possible. Was I knew the information and then I would be supersensitive. Everyone hearing that at no point would I be like? Hey kinda funny. It's the end of the year. I know we promised you all bonuses and it turns out. This year's bonus is only ten dollars and we don't we don't make one ten dollars and you know I know that's not what you guys were expecting. But if you don't like it you can quit. You don't like it fuck off your fucking wrestling villain visnic marine walk out of the arena. Not exactly the best time to quit your job. Either Greg no not at all. Yeah exactly. That's another great point too. Greg. I WANT. I'm trying to make sense of here. Is the disconnect between the trousdale statement where he said we fully expect this to be like the most lucrative borderlands game? And I know I'll be. I know I will be in Chadema labeled by the way of course like we host the borderland sharing this break news us too so you take everything we say with a grain of salt. I say this is a completely fucking shitty situation. I would never fucking talked to somebody like this when I was giving bad news. If Rabies said what he said here according to these people however to your point about right quote we expect lifetime unit sales to be a record for the series end quote. Zomig that this information to me doesn't make that untrue. If if if this information holds in it is the fact that this game was way too fucking expensive especially with the Quebec team. It's one hundred forty La lifetime sales can still be the most. You're the best selling Baudouin's of all time but Portland costs remarkably less to make. That's math right that I'm not good. But that's MAC that says. Oh Well Yeah. The checks be the way they should be now again. Row Lifetime unit sales means that if he will keep buying moorlands. If from what this says here right you know we've turned the corner in it is it is profitable now so people are. GonNa have now earned their first royalty check on that profit again. That's first royalty. That's not last from the way I understand this rideshare. It would be that this would keep coming however what I'm reading here from Jason's as usual great reporting is that this is the first check in. Its way less than what people thought it was going to be right. Yeah and so for me. There's two major problems here. Number one not warning people ahead of time in explaining to them. Like Hey I I've offices are. People talk to each other. I hey everybody we've heard the scuttle but that you think you're about to buy a dodge viper with this money and maybe that's on your ear you're GonNa fucking dodge dot instead eight hundred dollars. We heard that this is what it's going to be in this. It's not gonna be that at first. You know what I mean. We project we do this. This is the thing like we have this. Aggressive deal see playing. We hope we keep bringing people in like that. There's two things I mean overall. This fucking sucks. This is terrible from what it reads in from what you're saying. It sounds like they're going to get there could get there whatever but then it's tone deaf statement from Randy. That's true of. Yeah if you're happy with the system you're walking to quit Go from ninety three thousand nine hundred and twelve thousand base price of several different models. I mean houses in Frisco Texas. They're cheap to yes true. Please gentlemen this is kind of Funny Games daily. I remember poche editing. You can catch on patriots dot com slash. Kinda Funny Games where you give us your questions. Comments concerns everything under the video. Game Son then you can watch US record. The show live twits dot TV slash. Kind of funny games. You can watch it later. Youtube dot com slash. Kind of funny games you can. Watch ON RESTRICT DOT COM. You can listen to podcast services around click. Click the globe tomorrow. So it's going to be blessing and Tim than Friday. Also blessing. That's right. There was an audible in there. Now that we got Troyon we have friends and something recording later on that day. You gotta you gotta you gotTa be out there. If YOU'RE NOT MAKING MOVES. Gary you're standing still thank you so much we love you. Miller did you do. You're wrong an income. Okay just making sure. I'm glad no keep me honest gap. We did so much where we were putting it in as we went you know what I mean so a lot of people were no. No no I hear you burden dot Tara. Dat Dat Dat. Dat Pat Agnosio. Row House writes in and says Gary is wrong. The next generation of consoles will be faster than P C because you have to spend hours. Updating your BIOS oh no. Let's get a moral word of sustained people. I might BIOS wants. It's true untrue. I had to do that but I mean don't you have to update fucking consoles. These consoles are becoming more like PC's with all the problems and technical becoming more and more to be slipping consoles consoles used to have an argument in this area when you slapped in a cartridge press the power button and you were off. You went now. It's up to up. We'll take this. We Love You. We appreciate you. We hope we see over there until next time disturb you.

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The Timely Agitation of Run the Jewels

Popcast

1:05:50 hr | 1 year ago

The Timely Agitation of Run the Jewels

"Welcome to the new. York Times podcast. Your having great merch helps to of Music News and criticism. I'm your host John Gary Monica? Back hit your. Store. They promised education, but renovate test scores prediction print. Population Go Louis. Lowest the poets. Every day on the news aches a pre. Cop Takata man like me to my voice. There hasn't been. A whole lot of music that has arisen from this particular, political and social moment. That's felt completely poignant, you know. We talked about low baby a couple of weeks ago. Who? Kind of had that perfect intersection of genuine popularity, and also speaking to the current moment. There's also plenty of other songs had been released that on a smaller scale have been really effective. But there was something specific about the most recent. Run the jewels record which came out a month ago where it felt like arrived. At almost like a you know I don't believe in things like this, but almost preordained moment. Obviously, the record had been done for a while before came out. It'd been recorded in a different moment, but. In listening to Archie J four. And in going back into the run the Jewish catalogue, what's very clear is that the America that everybody is very clearly living in now and actually has been living in for quite some time. Even if there is have been a little bit covered to it, this is the America that run. The jewels have been rapping about and thinking about for years now this is a bat remains skeptical of government institutions concerned with police violence. This is a group made of people who are angry, frustrated and effective and run the jewels four. Is Maybe the best distillation of that while connecting broader social in. Narratives chew personal revelations and we haven't really talked about around the jewels on podcast I. Don't think we have at least and so a wanted to try to take a long view of how we arrived at a moment. Where run the jewels LP killer Mike. To middle aged rappers. Have made the record at feels like as close to a soundtrack of the current. Political moment as anybody at the beginning of the episode, we were listening to walking in the snow. That's off RT J. for this is. This is one of many great killer. Mike vs on this album in really does the work of connecting. Personal narrative has to go stomach concerns, and this is something that comes up a lot and we're gonNA talk about on this week's episode, so in order to kind of talk about run the jewels, and the whole history of how we arrived at this moment, a wanted to bring in somebody who has been paying attention from the very beginning and written very sharply and. About this group, no stranger to pop cash Sheldon Pierces here, Sheldon. What's really good? How are you man yes? Yes, yes. I guess now I can officially say I feel like it got has rhymer. That's right. Put It on you. Put It on your resume on your twitter bio. Right. That's right. Thank you for having me I. AM happy to be back so first of all showed him before we get into the jewels, the gun in the fist. Two things one I do want to say up front I had a challenging week with scheduling last week in. You are nothing. Decent and kind about the mini scheduling changes, so thank you for that I wanted to say that publicly appreciate that. Thank you, thank you humble, thank you. Very true, not everybody would be so gracious. Second thing is before again before we get to on the jewels. You have an announcement or you've already announced, but you have a thing that you're working on. You're working on a book you WanNa just tell the people quickly. What's coming? Yes, Next year to commemorate the Fiftieth Birthday of two bucks a Gore. I am releasing an oral history Simon and Schuster really excited about it, it has. Has Been a blast to work on so far and I can't wait for people to read it, and it's of his whole life his whole life. We are going through interviewing just about anybody we can find who is willing to talk about their relationship to him. Share stories, not just about his life and his art, but also about his impact because I mean as we're seeing now. He still remains a vital figure. Two moments low. Yes. Oh, yeah, so it feels not just because of these anniversaries come also next year is the twenty-fifth anniversary of his death, but I've just been seeing interviews from him. Pop Up everywhere, hearing his music everywhere, and his message is still seem so vital to moments like these, so it just feels like a great time to sort of speak about his broader impact. Look whatever book you're working on, we talked. Talked about it, but I'm glad about pot because I do think not only is policy relevant in this particular cultural and social moment, but the way that was relevant in his cultural and social moment has some parallels to the way run the jewels and specifically killer Mike is so poignant in this moment, so there is a thread that bridges your two projects were release your main project in your project? For the for the next forty five minutes he right. So. Tell me a little bit about your history with run the jewels before you wrote this review, you put view. It's an eight point three. It's the best new music, but tell me what you came in the door with because I want to eventually get to what I came in the door with. Its confessional, mode. So tell me what you came in the door with a vis-a-vis lpn and killer Mike. Yes, so I I got into lp through fantastic damage, just the early death jug, stuff or predessor stuff getting into him at Deaf Jackson going back through company flow. And then I'm going to date myself a little bit here I'm I'm younger than a lot of people think I got into killer mice crew. Through the KRYPTONITE record for bull. I thought you. I thought you were going to say. Run the jewel to. I I I I I remember hearing Kryptonite on the radio and that was my first insurance to killer Mike. Even though I wasn't outcast fan, I did know about him as this sort of outlier, he was like he was like sort of this big boy hanger on. It seemed to a young me at I knew he could rap right off the bat, but carry-ons ity sort of hadn't peaked, and then I sort of started falling him. Him through the pledge series, the pledge album series that he did. It was like a trilogy of Records I think the third one is sort of the most political the bunch where he starts to turn the corner into being the killer Mike of run the jewels, and then I was always more of an l. p.. Fan than a killer. Mike Fan and it's sort of crossed the threshold for me with rap music the record that. Produced for him through the William Street label that is sort of overseen by adults when Programmer Jason Demarco, and it's sort of all came together for killer. Mike on that record, and not fully produced by LP. Yes, yeah, we should play something off-the-record because I haven't listened to that record in a minute. Reagan I think reality. Let's listen to a little bit of Reagan and just for context this twenty twelve. Pre Run the jewels, but kind of Proto. Run the jewels, absolutely, Reagan. Rap Music produced by the end of the way. Like number twelve months old enough to understand this change for. Declared the war on drugs like a war on terror. It really was the police temperatures well, mostly black. But they call us and Laos on what they think only triggers. Here they doubtfuls on that criteria and make with beat up. We hit diamonds watches. Take drugs. They pick our pockets. I guess at the privilege of. The profit but to reaganomics prison term the. See late in two thousand twelve when this record came out, I, remember being struck by. At you don't WanNa I. Don't WanNa say the word fresh for either of its connotations I. don't want to say the word fresh in the nineteen eighty-six connotation and I don't WanNa say fresh in the kind of here's a new thing connotation of right. It was some other irrigation of that it was basically a striking record by two people who arrived at a point in their talents were they were not concerned with any broader narrative killer Mike was going to make the best killer Mike Record that he can make Lp. P. was going. Going to produce the best killer Mike, Record, that he could produce, but it did not seem to be really in conversation with a lot of things right? Yeah, absolutely I think one thing that's sort of interesting about that record is that it seemed like a turning point for both artists in more ways than one killer Mike had sort of jest gone through the whole major label situation where he was signed to ti through grand, hustle records He was trying to play the game and it didn't work out and then LP. His his label went on hiatus a close friend to him. He lost a basically I interviewed him earlier this year, and he told me that everything that could have gone wrong in his life went wrong at that moment, and this is the late `oughts two thousand nine, and then through this mutual friend at adult swim. They are connected and a lot of people see. See, these two guys as an odd couple like I. don't agree with that, but a lot of people see them as a couple, and so they meet up at this crossroads moment for both of them and killer Mike has said this many times he said, as soon as L. P. produced this record for him. He knew they were going to be a group. Group. He said he didn't WANNA. Work with anybody else. That wasn't lb, and you can't blame him. It was like this. You can hear it clicking almost immediately. An LP doesn't rap at all on that record, but that production just brought something out of killer Mike that we hadn't seen in his earlier records and he is really. It's really just a whole bunch of. Of things coming together at the perfect moment, because here's this guy he has nothing to lose. Is Producer has nothing to lose and he is wrapping like he's never rap before, and that's really the the crossroads moment for run the jewels because they decide only a few years later that they're just going to go it together the rest of the way we should. Is. At this moment lp production right so as someone that kind of was there in a CO tempering temporariness way with the backpack underground of the mid to late nineties in new. York I remember hearing company flow for the first time probably was the indelible sees records. Probably the record I urge I but I remember hearing company flow and thinking and they have to remember. This is ninety, seven, ninety, six, ninety seven. What's happening in ninety, six, ninety seven is big name that Boyd Yeah Major Glossy Radio New York rap that is. Beginning what we now understand to be. Probably the second set of steps to wards, the full hip hop vacation of hop music. Sort of following Dr. Dre, in the chronic and whatnot, so all that stuff is happening and I remember at the time. You really had to make a choice. You got to be like. Well I'm on that team or I'm on. I'm now on this team. Which company flow raucous records have to shells vinyl still in my own longest. which contain any number of strange twelve inch records from that era that may or may not be worth money in Japan on discards I don't know. So that was a choice and I remember I worked at a magazine called trace at that time, and we would have these kinds of ideological battles between the two halves of the magazine editorial staff, one half, being super super bad boy like this is the future and the. Super back back like this is just not like. They just completely rejected that stuff. Company flow were in many ways, the style and sound definer of that counter narrative and the counter narrative. It's not as if both of these narratives were had equal weight in the world. This is like you know a hundred to one in terms of fan base thousand, a thousand to one hundred thousand to One But company flow production is acidic. It's you know it's Scabbard it's chaotic. It's you know it's like it's like industrial machinery, just collapsing on itself, and if you take that run through co flow records into LP Solo stuff into killer Mike Rap Music, which is probably the most buoyant. In my mind, I always thought of that as like one continuous counter narrative, and how strange it would be, if that ever intersected with any kind of centrist narrative. That's how I remember feeling at the time, and that's one of the really interesting thing about run the jewels right is that they are. Guys who have sort of existed on the fringes of the rap world I mean the concept of underground seem so foreign now to people who have just like the ability to stream all of the history of music on their phones, but that really was such a big thing this moment. In mid to late nineties New York and those company flow records, they just sound so dark in his beats, our mutating they sound distortion alien from diff-. They sound like they're from a different world than the bad boy that was popping off. They sound like they exist in a different New York, and also it's interesting as they sound like a different world from the stuff. That kind of immediately was happening even. Even if you listen to the rest, the raucous up and company was brief-, briefly raucous affiliated, but if you listen to the rest of the raucous stuff, we're talking black star. You know most deaf solar record. Farrell much solo record. Absolutely listen to that stuff and you're like company. Flow makes these guys like bad boy records. It makes most deaf sound like he's on. Bad boy made how live salad on backward. So let's just for context. Just so people get what's happening. Fun crusher, plus which is the expanded version of Fun crusher EP, which is vinyl, only a believe right funkhouser plus does not exist on streaming. I looked earlier today. I don't know if it's samples I. Don't know if it's LP. Not having the rights I. It's a very messy thing with this record. He only recently put all the deaf chuck stuff onto streaming. I'm sure we'll be able to find this somewhere. If not, you know in my house. This is the first the first on on funk rusher, plus this is called bad such example just to get a on. Get A vibe you get get a hard at. Let's listen to co flow. Service! People Act as fresh negative thirty below wind chill, factor counteracts. Helpless action it. Hapless, flinching supersonics lead. Says Translates into. To Watch the whole situation practices supposedly like regulate exposed way. Okay, so now that you've been Cairo practically realigned from this company flow record. Are you have a sense of what L. P. was doing? And how there's nods to industrial music? He's a crate digger, but he's digging in different crates. He's techniques. But he's is referenced. Ballots are unusual by the time he gets to rap music with killer Mike. He has smooth out some of this. Kind of maintaining I think some texture, but there's a little more bounce Luma rhythm forward in the later records. Yeah, absolutely, it sounds weird to. They are more understanding of pop music, but there is something that is definitely more accessible about them and I feel like. Maybe that's a product of just the stuff that he did in two thousand and four on high water, just like the more experimental stuff, even as he started working on like I'll sleep when you're dead and when he did his own record in two thousand. Thousand, twelve cancer for cure. Those records seemed to be sort of tinkering with the idea that his music didn't have to be all abrasive like it didn't have to punish you the entire time and he he is definitely working that I think maybe part of it in dealing with killer. Mike is sort of trying to court, maybe knowing that a rapper killer Mike whose voice. Voice it's it's just slaps you across the face. It does so much of the work that he doesn't need to be as up in your grill. As he was previously and I really think that in this process of producing, he's produced for other people obviously before, but this sort of idea of stepping outside his purview in producing for somebody that maybe people wouldn't expect him to. To produce for caused him to sort of rethink what his beats could be in what they can do and on rap music. They're just a little punchier they they hit a little bit different, and I think it really is the start of this change in sound that allows them to become the group that they become the one that could chart on the billboard two hundred. And also you know this is the thing about killer. Mike is a rapper that's different from. LP himself as rapper when he's producing for himself big just. Company. Killer Mike Is. He is a dense rapper, but he has an in the pocket rapper, and there was something about the lyrical kind of experimentation of the late ninety s into the early two thousands. That was almost a little bit anti pocket. It was different from what was happening on the West. Coast of West. Coast was like very melodic at a lot of inherent. There's a lot of almost like breathing exercises within the complex flows. Something that was happening in New York in Ninety, seven, Ninety, eight, ninety nine was kind of like. We're just GONNA Kinda vom all over. And it was I think from a production perspective. It didn't encourage space. It didn't encourage room for a rapid arrived like in a classic sense and I think by the time by the time we arrive at rap music eventually are TJ the original run the jewels rutger. LP has squeezed some of that old instinct out of his system. We all grow up. I, don't right like I used to write for the village voice in two thousand. Like we all those sentences, I look back now and I'm just like I just I just I. Don't even know what they mean us. You know we all. We all age out of our youthful impulsive tendencies. But also Mike is a rapper who I think. If you're in the room with him, you probably want to give him the bounce that works in tandem with his natural vocal patterns. It's a great point in the lot of those nineties records. They're sort of a fidgety. Miss an almost anxiousness to the flows. It's a lot of how many words can you pack into the frame type? Energy and killer Mike does have this same technicians approach, but he does like to let the beat breathe, and he will ride the foul. Yeah, exactly. Exactly from the South I mean that's the thing. It's a fundamentally different thing. You know so much of the music that I imagine inspired killer Mike MMA. Wrapping Perspective was probably a little bit slower. A little bit more melodic, driven I haven't gone back and listen to every killer. Mike Solo thing in the last week, or so in anticipation of, but I've got imagine a lot of his writing approach. Maybe even was like double timing on a slower beat, so that means you have these kinds of spaces and you're sort of. Chomping at the bit on top of those spaces, so that's probably where some of his understanding pattern comes from yeah, I think even about the record that comes immediately to mind to me is his one sort of breakout single moment early in his career, the Adidas record there's not a lot of just like flipping dip big little bit Arash Sorta. I know. I know there's definitely this sort of growth group. Find The groove and let that groove carry you type of mentality with him as rapper for sure, and he's carries that into this this run the jewels era even has his wraps, get more and more technical in this sort of sparring match that he has going back and forth with be on these records dat super interesting I'm so glad you said. said that okay, so let's pivot okay, and just a sidebar quickly I was watching the Ebro in Rosenberg interview with run the jewels from the other day and Mike says how much he dislikes the all day I dream about sex record in a very lack in a very classic rappers, first sellout, single kind of way reminding me of when I saw daylight soil perform at Wellesley College in ninety five. And they played me myself. And I and their intro to the song is we hate this song. We hate this song. which I understand, they did at very many concerts over very many years. Anyway, Mike. You're entitled. You're entitled day. That's on. It's all good, but I'm glad you talked about him on stepping up the intensity, so let's since we're going chronologically. Let's just jump into the first run. The jewels record and let's listen to a song on there. That I think kind of sets the tone for a lot of what's the common. That's DD F H. They. Stop. Power and they off the postal. Back. Boy! A looking pay. Day We looking at. Home. Say, baby, on seeing. Day! On my child until the rap about this both murder your black. Crossover book when you. Get something, and now you understand the definition of. Peaks. Radic. Spanish Dad. It's. Between tour cancellations lost creative gigs and shrinking ad revenue. The covid nineteen crisis is making it clear that the system supporting creative people is broken patriotic offers a better way we help creators makeup lost revenue and build a more sustainable income source, but offering monthly membership to their fans intern fans get access to exclusive community premium contents and the chance to become active participants in the work. They love checkout. Patriot DOT COM now and help change the way art valued. So this. Run the jewels record when I went back to listen to. It again holds up way better than I remember. That's an I'll just own up to that. I remember feeling a little anxiety about run the jewels in the early. Years is twenty, thirteen, twenty, hundred I remember feeling a little anxiety about run the jewels, because as you know as a critic, right, you wanna be kind of like relentlessly focused on novelty innovation forward thing gang, and I have always tried to gut. Check Myself Against Nostalgia, and you know that thing where like certain sometimes I'll talk to. People of my generation was a little bit older than your generation and people just be like. Like only only WANNA. Talk about Gra Zelda. You know and I'm like yes. I totally understand like result is good, but let us not get confused about that. Being the center of what's happening right now. There's one other thing that's happening right now, but so I was probably a little overly skeptical of run the jewels and this is just a good lesson for me and hopefully others to even be skeptical of my sculpture since. Because when I went back to this record recently, I was like discuss slaps. This is good. Yes, it's sort of interesting that you say that. Because I to my first impulse when this record was announced was why not just do rap music to essentially like? It's like if if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just just go back to that well and do that again because it works so well. I wasn't sure how these two would work as emcees. emcees sharing space so often we see two guys wrapped together, and it's just the chemistry is not there, and you can so easily be undone by that lack of chemistry, even when you have two great wrappers in sharing space together I, always like to think about this record sort of as the mix tape that precedes their album. It was definitely marketed as their debut album, but this record to me feels like them sort of getting acquainted with one another. Another as partners in sort of working out the kinks I think it's a great record going back. It's still holds up, but I still think they're building to this sort of colossal punch that is run the Gills to, and you can hear them sort of feeling each other out. It's like Oh, there's this little dance going on like I don't WanNa step on his toes I want him to get the space debris i. want the space to breathe can. Can I do certain things on the this? These songs that I would do on my own songs, because even though they do share some broader thematic similarities in their music. They do have very different ways of coming at them. If you'RE GONNA make a group right if it's not gonna be LP producing killer Mike, if you are a group, what is the ideology of the group? Why does the exist right right exactly and I think if you were? Seventeen. With another seventeen year old making that choice, that's a different question, but if you're in your thirties, making that choice, there probably should be a reason that you do this thing that makes sense and part of the reason I wanted to play. Is I. Think part of the reason is in a song like this which talks about? Police issues and brutal. You know it directly engages with the themes that obviously are not new to hip hop, but certainly are not at the forefront of the genre at that particular moment, so I think part of part of them as you say, feeling each other out is not just a rhythm thing, it's not just a cadence thing. It's not just a pattern thing. It's a thematic thing. It's what do we have to say that makes sense saying it side by side. And what are we have to say? That makes sense when we together say it out to the world, I should also just briefly I want to shout somebody out 'cause. Royals, been on my mind, and probably if I had not been doing the pop smoke story from a couple weeks ago, I probably would have written something about the record, but I just. That week ended up being very very crazy, but I wanNA shout out a listeners names won- he lives in Nashville and he wrote a very long email to the podcasting mail address and got me thinking about this again. It made me realize we come back to it for sure. Even though it was on the list I had to fast. Track it so out to you. Thank you for your note. You know I just thank you want. One is the reason for me Sheldon to be on the phone today. We appreciate you one. Thank you real real big spit! Get to circle back here. This is a decision. That, too. I don't WanNa. Say Middle Middle Ages. I try to be generational ambiguous myself. I don't know what Middle Ages exactly, but two men on the lower end of their middle age years making a choice, and and this is what they chose so again to circle back to when this first came out. To me, this felt a little niche, potentially a little nostalgic and I'm talking like bomb squad era nostalgic because I think we're going to locate what lp his sort of Qadri of of producers do. It's very much bomb squad influenced absolutely, and it made me as someone who is also on on the younger edge of Middle Age at that time. Think okay I'm glad. I like this I think I also have not mistaking this for like. Drake Drake is drake is what's happening right now? This something that feels very. This feels like a fringe thing. And it turns out obviously drinks very popular, but I was wrong about this being a French so just owning up to. It. I mean it's hard to believe or see this. This project does novel when there's so much history immediately packed into it right like here. Are these guys? It's as you said like these guys started this project. When let's be fair, a lot of rappers going out at this age like they're. They're investing in the. Robbers are done. It's just it's just the the fact of the matter, and so it's hard to be like Oh. This thing is going to work when there's so much riding on on you guys sort of rising above not only the expectations of of ageism, but also just these massive solo catalogs that you guys have created in different spheres of the rap underground, and so you've got all of these different perceptions looming, and you have to fight all of them, and that's really one of the impressive things about. Run the jewels as a unit. Is that they took this big gamble and they said. Everybody really. That's a lot of their records are big, everybody energy, and and they warn out. It says rainy. This is something that we don't talk about enough I. Think Think vis-a-vis. Run the jewels specific moment in arc of their rise which is. You know as someone who is paying attention to the ways that the Internet was changing distribution methods, letting people with less formal fewer former records connections break in much more easily through out the two thousand into the twenty tens we tend to think of the Internet as being a space that is freeing and liberating for the youngest creators it's it's. It's basically like Oh, in the nineties you add have a friend who had a friend who could pass your tape to somebody who works somewhere and you would have to you know just kind of really really struggle at these kind of small concerts to kind of insure way towards some kind of notoriety. And we think the Internet is like Oh now you can just like have one song. It's the most famous person in America. which is all true. But the Internet as pipeline is not necessarily totally geared towards a young age there for everybody, and so run the jewels. One kind of becomes a case study in how Internet distribution and awareness can function for a group that is not necessarily trying to reach teenagers. It's trying to reach other middle aged people who are also on the Internet is a parallel thing that's happening. It's just something that bears mentioning because I think it's important for us to understand that. You and I and critics like us. We're constantly kind of like itching away at soundcloud or youtube or whatever Tiktok just be like Oh. What's a? What's a weird small thing that's happening? That could become a big thing could become really interesting. and. Here's something that's happening. Basically in plain sight. It's like people probably dowling this record at their day jobs, you know. And functioning in a very different way, yeah, it's sort of interesting to think about sort of this record is released just on the cusp of Lake, odd future mania and a lot of people credit that hm with changing the way that people think about using the Internet to connect with fans and it's there's definitely it's I. Remember being on twitter at the time and killer Mike just sort of like tweeting in real time. What was going on with the album him being like a? A Eh the album is done. And then they announced that it was going to be released one day, and then a few days before he gets on twitter, WE'RE GONNA release it tomorrow, and then it's released for free, and anybody can download it, and there is. It's definitely true that they are connecting with their audience the same way that these young up and coming kids grow up on the Internet are connecting were there's it is a certain level of savvy that plays into it. And it's still early. I mean again I want to reemphasize. Thirteen? This is not twenty twenty. When every record is free to everybody, obviously, there are streaming services, but there is something in that era twenty twenty thirteen rap music run the jewels first edition. About like we're GONNA. Release It for free. It's like a little bit of a I. Don't want to say defeat, but it's like a little bit of a concession. It's like we're not really like. Maybe we can sell this. Maybe we can't sell it. Who can say? It had a little bit of that had a little bit of that energy not to say that you know look maybe behind. Behind the scenes they're. They're like marketing genius and they totally understood in there like we're GonNa, follow the radiohead and nine inch nails path and look. Maybe that's all the case, or maybe it was like. Hey, we made this thing. We're GONNA throw in the world. Prayers up and see what happens I never got the sense that there was a p. r. machine behind the record. It's like the. The songs that I was hearing from the record they were released through blogs. This was like blogs were still thing why? You're like you're seeing the senior Meyer blog. I don't know who needs to hear this, but our P. to your blonde. You're seeing anybody's blogs. You're downloading directly from blogs. Just loose MP. Threes everywhere and now. was definitely the sense that they were just like like the mix tape economy hadn't vanished yet. People were still like going on Dat piff and releasing official mix tapes, and it was definitely this sense that they were sort of tapping in to the old head like the old hip Hashtag hip hop ed aspect of that of that community. They're like. Oh, we're just going to release this for three and whoever needs to ear hears it like whatever deaf, jugs! needs to hear it can can download it. There was definitely this sort of wait and see approach to releasing it. Now, we should probably pivot to run the jewels to which again I gotta be honest man I did not know run the to was pitchforks number one album of twenty four deed. Until this this exact moment, deny so so I guess I guess it's safe to say that. Between Two thousand thirteen and twenty fourteen everybody kind of arrived at the party, not to say the pitchfork as late Basque because it's not, but I'm just saying God forbid me for quoting from wikipedia page. He's upside down. But like there's a section on the wikipedia page were on the jewels to. That's just year end lists. To Billboard. Number, two complex. Complex number one. Number two. The Rolling Stone One spin one stereo gum one vibe to the wire eight. So, what happened between run the jewels one run the jewels to. They were able to connect with the the middle, the middle part of the slim shady in the middle part of their ven diagram. Over the course of that year I remember, they started doing shows together. They started to appear as a unit, and I think people who initially were skeptical like you in the initial going, those people were sort of one over in the course of the following months I do remember the record sort of steadily building steam on the Internet, just being out there and and fan sort of anticipating the next record and the thing about the next record. It is just such a crazy step up from the first record. It's they the production value is. Is Higher. It's way punch year. It's like the two of them are in their bag together. They started filling out the process, and it's like all of a sudden they it's like they had a little brainstorm session, and they're like checking off the the the things that they both agree on and the things that they disagree on, and it's like all right. We're going to everything that we agree on here. We're GONNA. Hit this, and then we're going to save you all this other stuff that that we hate and it's really just this colossal. Middle fingers up record, and they just go off in tandem and I. Think I think finally for a lot of people. It sort of made sense and this is why I say that these two artists aren't as far off as people like to believe is because there's there was always this sort of odd couple narrative going on between the two of them, but I like to think of them as there's this meme of like to bodybuilders like clasping hands, one's black one's white and it's like this person. Whatever on one side whatever thing on the other side? The hand clasping is like the where they meet in the middle, and it's like so you have lp sort of this this underground impresario at deaf jokes, and then you have killer Mike. This dungeon family acolyte an hanger on, and I feel like the sort of the principles of those two groups are as dissimilar as people wanted to believe they were, and so over the course of that year. You're starting to see these two. These two basis converge in shared interest, and then all of a sudden. It's like well run. The jewels represents this meeting of the minds best of both worlds China situation. Wow, that's okay. We'll watch the throne this Wabi. Anti through this. This is just destroy the throne. Burn the throne. This is the burn the throne. We listen to something off of run. The jewels to I'll tell you what we're not gonNA listen. To we'RE NOT GONNA, listen to not because not good. We're not gonNA. Listen to love again economic back which the record. Boo, not because it's not great people talking about the baby got sex raps. Run the scholes. Rather. Jules was doing. I'm just saying is very blush is a blush inducing record, but we're not going to listen to that. Let's listen to you. Oh, my darling! Don't cry off the tale. Rich I compass it. It was all smoke. Pekar. Face PK with. Don't business 'cause your I? Wrap Up. By putting. These guys teach my hair. Meeting. A. Let's feed through. Run the jewelry. Because I do WANNA. Get to the current record you know. Run the jewels. Three is to me probably the most of all the records including the current one. It's probably the most I don't necessarily mean this in a positive way although I do think it's a very good record. It's probably the most ambitious of all the run the jewels record it probably tries the most things. Yeah, absolutely that record sort of was recorded in the under the shadow of trumpism. It's the the the trump empire was looming large, and so I get given the sort of. Of Run the jewels to I mean there's a record there's there's a lot of. Masters, energy on rituals to already and so it seemed like they had they were given this mandate to be the voice of that moment and I'm not sure they were quite ready for it. Some of it in retrospect feels a bit forced like. They weren't sure that they were ready to take on that mantle. It's one thing to be like. Tear down when. When it's like your own agenda, and it's reflecting your immediate politics this other thing when this crowd this throng of fans as being like we need you to represent this moment, because then you're speaking for them to and I feel like under the pressure of of under the weight of that they they sort of buckled a little bit. It feels like they're weary. From having to to bear that mantle, but I do still love that record a lot, if feels like the forgotten record of the three, I remember listening to run the jewels three and trying to figure out what it marked was. I don't know if this is the right term. But if it marked a pivot towards quote, unquote maturity like it was going to be like we are going to leave some of the kind of the Fritzy -ness of these first two records were going to leave that behind, or we're going to kind of temper that some way. It felt like. I mean I don't listen to nineteen seventies. Rocks I'm in a masters. Felt like the Kinda like that Al, the AOR, the album oriented rock version of run the jewels, and that's not to say that there's not frisky Ns and punching s or intensity in just it seemed like it was a little bit bigger and grander in scale and I. Think I think you're right in the sense that? Even though it really good on its own I'm not sure totally plays to their strengths. Yeah, there's like sort of this slapstick quality of two friends like bantering on the early to run the jewels records that is sort of missing from run the jewels three where they sort of flake. Sit Down, and they put on their suits, and they and they get serious business time on run the jewels three, and that doesn't really play to their sort of weed smoking elder statesman energy. Let's fund record off relatively fine off of the three. Let's wasn't a call to German brundage. To able. Kids Cook. Whom by. Buckle Up Trooper Pat. Is So cute. Air. From. The ground opportunities here looking to face talk anybody there. Please! Tell me how near. Show in retrospect I think even the street came out I. Think I maybe even said like this is a step forward. This is a better record than one and two I. Don't know that I feel that anymore. I think in the moment kind of depending what you wanted from them. It could feel that way, but I don't think i. feel that anymore and I. think part of that is because of. Frankly run the jewels four, which is very. So it kind of realized, OH, the run! The four feels like a little bit of a recalibration post. Run the jewels three. Yeah, absolutely so talk me through your take on four. Yeah, run the jewels. Ford's me I talked to LP at the top of the year before I heard the record, and he one thing that he kept repeating was that they were trying? Trying to meet what they called their EP MD guidelines. They felt like EP. MD had released four classic records in a row, and each of them sort of got weirder over the course of the run, but over that time they also stayed true to who they were and it. It really does feel like a sort of back to basics. Record the fourth go round. Pick getting back to what really makes run. The jewels work with makes it interesting. What makes it fun? But also there's this sort of throwback mentality to it speaking to the classic EST in each of them, because they really young guys that love rap music like they love Rosen and that's something you can't say about all rappers they. They really do love the. Like beyond just wrapping, they love listening to it. It's like embedded in their DNA, and so there's this record feels like an attempt to honor that it's an Oam honest to the classic records that they love, and also what they think that they bring to. That serves storied lineage and I love I love the idea of doing lake, the the out of sight record like getting that mutated weird. It's funky enough sample, and then putting two chains on it like that. That's such a that's such a leg bridging the gap kind of moment where it's like a lot of people see two chains as. Fun Loving Ball, trap artists, but he's been Barin out the last three years, and he is in their age group in sort of does speak to a lot of the things that they represent as well, and he's sounding a bit of a you know a social and political awakening himself in the last two or three years. Yeah, definitely with the rapper go to league-record and this verse on out of sight, the very very good verse, and are those three songs right near the top of this record that all reference older rap records. Obviously LA LA which I'm not gonNA play, 'cause I. It's a little. It's a little too fun. Yeah Samples Greg Nice from Dewick, which is a big gangstar smooth record from the nineties. Go listen to that. It's just a perfect record is tremendous perfect record so then there's Woah they're out of sight and then the song which is called Holy. Great Name. The the opening flow is basically a broken language flows move the gambler. This is a record. We want to talk about not dating yourself. I sell. Visit record that I used to. I used to play on my college radio. Show all the profile twelve inch constantly. This is like one of my five. Go to records when I was like I. Need to kind of turn it up a little bit like I need to energy. To play broken language, all the time could probably still rap eighty percent of it. You know unprompted. That is I. Think my my first blog when there were blogs in the one point, zero point old blogs. I was called broken language. That's how seriously I took that song so here Mike kind of go in with a little bit of that flow was very exciting for me. Kind of. Touch me a special place I was very very. Stall Joe Wow that. Abbas. ME. And I'm a person. Again tries to reject nostalgia, but when you're GonNa hit me this much in my sweet spot. It's hard for me I'm just I'm just putty at that point you know. But. I do think it's telling that like. Mid Nineties, it's funky enough his earlier than that. It's early ninety s broken languages like mid to the end of the mid nineties. Matter be all like argumentative about golden era, but there's like just a specific kind of. Wrap ideologue for whom that is a special type, and it's nice to hear them locate themselves in that tradition, which is obvious, it's just evident from their work always, but but hear them overtly locate themselves. Nat Tradition, but not. Beholding to it and part of the reason I didn't WanNa. Play la La like it's a little too beholden to that moment i. think with these other songs do and we should. I guess we didn't play any of these like. Let's play out of sight just so you can kind of hear the collision of that older approach with their approach. Let's play the part about site that kind of goes into the. Red Of The product of poverty coolers as seeing you just WANNA peas. Tracks, like whole plane ride role raised. I get a text. STAY SAFE TAKES BACKUP MR behold sooner weight came from. Some great assist to win. Eight eight. To thank teletronics. And then another thing that this record does, and this is later in the record. But like there's the record the has Zach Lowe Rocca. Who's WHO's been on. The records before and Ferrall and ferrall. Out here, talking about slave masters, posing on your dollar is kind of like this kind of like. You mentioned dystopia before I could dystopia being Neptune's beat. Great. Basically made a one point Oh Neptune's beat for ferrall and filtered it kind of threw Sifi. That! That's all his sort of incredible. It's incredible about the dude who was REP and billionaire boys club a few days ago, talking that exact time anti-capitalism like tear gas hair down the one percenters. But that's like a testament to I think not only how effective the message of run the jewels is, it's a it's A. It's a commentary on our particular, political and cultural moment for sure, but it also says that run. The jewels is successful enough that someone like ferrall is going to get out of his comfort space and get on a record like this. Yeah, absolutely, it's funny because you talk about killer might be in Dungeon family affiliate the last time I remember him doing something like this. This was for another Dungeon family affiliate future on the move that dope record and it's like. He just literally becomes the person that this record needs, and he it's it's rick. Future at that time was sort of just stepping into his major label huge popstar moment at that time, and it's sort of interesting to consider. Run the jewels. These guys who have never been that having enough cachet to get parole to be that same person on their record. We do not come here to malign for route. Row with someone. If you go back to the skateboard P, you know the mix tape. They my mind mix tape. There's all this stuff with ferrall wrapping. Where especially because was kind of like proximate to the clips you know he. He had layers in variations on his approach, so it's not that it was never there something. His flexibility was never there, but it is striking like look. It's twenty twenty. Anybody, who is paying attention knows what is happening in the country right now you could choose to tap in and talk about it or you choose to not to happen and I think it's noteworthy. That ferrall makes a choice to tap in here Oh. Yeah, absolutely, I, think it's telling we talk about maturity. It's sort of telling of where a lot of people are in this. In this social moment, there's sort of reckoning with a lot of. Of things that they would not have been reckoning with even four or five years ago and it sort of speaks to how run. The jewels are representative of this moment, a lot of the things that killer Mike and LP have settled on I think the of the biggest thematic similarities that they shared going back to the starting from the jewels. Is this idea that you sort of cannot trust your government? The government is like inherently assistant. To sort of abuse and misuse you and that they can get a guy like Hurrell to come on their record and do something like this sort of speaks to the build the clout that they have built up on this platform. Really that's what it speaks to you and I think this record is even in being less explicitly. Political I think than run the jewels three sort of. Of Hits the touch points a little bit harder like I think about pulling the pin I think about a few words from the firing squad, which the that's such an epic closer. It's like not even directly about politics, but it's just too. Rappers sorta speaking to what is important to them. If they were to sort of go out guns, blazing and sort of in that moment of. Speaking to their loved ones in and sort of standing on their platforms, they get deeper into those issues than they did at any point. Three, I believe I'm glad that you arrived at that. Because that's actually where I wanted to go out was a few words. The firing squad especially the part where killer. Mike is Rapping about his mother's death and. When you think of company flow, you think of L. P. Solo. You think of rap. The Rap Music Record think of the early runs jewels record you're thinking about. Anxiety you're thinking about destruction you're thinking about regal is you're thinking about all these kind of things that feel jagged right and. The thing that you have to remember about both l. p. n. killer Mike is these are people with tremendous emotional acuity and I think what you see on this record in a couple places and especially here ease. Using the structural innovations, the nostalgia minded structural innovations of run the jewels. But honed in on this kind of emotional truth, because as you say, run the jewels, three is being made in anticipation of the trump era. And now you have a record that's made fully absorbed in it, and what striking is even though they talk about systemic issues, even though they talk about larger structural anti-government stuff as always, there are moments here. That are so keenly focused on the personal and discolor Mike. Verse is to Me Healthy, reminder of the emotional intensity that is possible, even through these kinds of fractured times and fractured approaches. Yeah, I've that framing is everything. It's so much easier to relate to somebody who is. Is speaking, from their direct perspective I think about the the record. Where are the line in that song where killer? Mike is talking about his wife and and sort of feeling, feeling her pain. He's like he for all these other records. He sort of standing on his soapbox, and preaching to the masses about what is wrong with the evil empire, and then in this song he steps off and he's like well. She's like she does not want to see me die over the. Giant. She needs a husband, not a martyr outcome. Yeah, absolutely the writing in there so complex and layered. Because from that moment he sort of goes into his history as somebody who grew up in Atlanta, just bribing the Marta I remember his such a keen detail, just like having an empty twenty two and his front pocket in a brave starter in the braves Jackie. Yeah. Try to make it out, but as a baby father is much harder, it's just like these these lines about him. Specifically the way that this sort of systematic injustice has affected him and those around him, and his fighting it the way that that has affected the people around him, and that was so much more powerful than a lot of his like opaque statements about sort of killing cops are killing masters to tie this all together, obviously one of Of the things that has happened in the last three or four weeks was killer. Mike speaking alongside the mayor of Atlanta. It was sort of at the peak of the unrest. I think it was the day after the young people were tasers by Atlanta police, just one of the most horrific horrific of video scenes from the last few weeks and one of the things that he talks about a lot in that in that speech is being from Atlanta. Atlanta being very different from being from say a city in the north or the north. West or California a lot of the Authority figures I think killer Mike's father was a police officer. Yeah his dad was so a lot of this sort of authority figures that people are kind of like pushing back in in his upbringing were also black. It wasn't a a sort clean like white people are the police it that dynamic was not as clean as it may be in other places and his personal tug of war. The thing that we have to remember. Even as turmoil is still kind of gripping the country, everybody is experiencing an individual tug of war premised upon their circumstances, and what I think he does. Look LP's. He's very good on this record very very good. Biting Killer Mike is exceptional on this record for connecting those threads from the global, the spiritual and the personal bringing back to personal narrative, and showing how all of these stomach things shape the personal narrative how the personal narrative shows the view on these systemic. Systemic issues yet. Killer Mike is definitely doing a lot of the heavy lifting, as far as sort of the activism is concerned on this album, and probably throughout the group's career. He's probably done more of the heavy lifting. I think Mike has sort of pushed lp in that direction a little bit, but on this record you can really hear it I I do think his his rapping on his records is always GonNa be a little bit more radical than his sort of railroad politics, which is fine sure. You! Mean wrappers or people agitating hunker? Just disclaimer for those who've never heard rap music four. Times to say they say are not accurate, but yeah I do think that it's sort of really powerful. How He? He gets deeper into his own four. Browning his own experience on this record and sort of talking about how the world at large has affected him and his directly in those in his immediate line of sight. It's way less personal to talk generally about the way that. That the evil empire disenfranchises the masses, even when those things are true, it's hard to those are abstract concepts that are hard to sort of wrap the mind around and get invested in emotionally, but when the rallying, they're good to kind of rally crowd at a show. You know that they're. They're catchy in a way, but what he's doing right here is is a different thing. Yeah. What's really powerful is how the way that he connects his personal experience to that broader narrative. He doesn't lose sight of that broader narrative. He's just connecting those dots I mean at the end of the closing record. He sort of gets into like who he speaking to, and it's like the do gooders that the no gooders abused and the truth tellers that. That were tied to the whipping post in the stream, true left hanging from trees, so it's not like he's forgotten about these people, and and about the annals of history, and about all these black bodies that have been left for dead. He's just thinking specifically about his place within that larger narrative and I think doing that makes this record hit that much harder. While on that note, Sheldon I appreciate you coming through for this disquisition on the last fifteen years, twenty years of underground rap culture and The bedrock upon which run the jewels has been has been annoying did so. Let's listen to fewer the firing squad. Thanks, thanks for having me. It'd be allow him. I told you have a disdain, a fortune and fight, but the presence ought to place in never abstain from in pain with my mother transitioned to another play now sitting on the plane. Hold on to try hard, but to just couldn't. Be Two years. Probably never be the site there see. What not to make myself go insane? It's the lean. You'RE GONNA lean on before we go just an abbreviated. JC CRIBS and we talk a lot about history on podcast in the importance of preservation of history and. kind of seeking things out, not just absorbing kind of what's been processed through the Internet and kind of force, fed down social media pipelines, but if actively seeking something. Something that I bought recently. It's like it's mildly embarrassing I'm just GonNa. Just it's just mildly embarrassing, but it brings a smile to my face when I look at it. In Big Fan of the show American pickers, which is on the history channel Mike and Frank Robbie Danielle. No, you know the big Fan of American pickers. Obviously sometimes I'm watching the show and I don't really understand you know the thing that they dig up or why it has value, and but it, but it reminds me of an impulse that I myself have, and that many of my friends have and is actually GonNa be the subject of a of a subsequent episode of op gas hopefully later this summer. But that that impulse to Earth, and what a have is a American pickers Mike Wolfe bobblehead. There are other bobbleheads here I'm not a huge bobblehead collector, but there are other bobbleheads here. I might have mentioned. There's a Mac dre one is all wall one. There's single playing one but I have a Mike Wolf. American pickers bobblehead important I. don't have the frank hopefully. Get a Franklin soon. Just like a good reminder to keep seeking things out even if it's a little bit hard, that's our show. Thanks Sheldon for calling in. Every podcast ever y times dot com slash podcast. Email us at podcast and ny times dot. com like one get on the facebook group. Get involved in. Those conversations chatted up. Subscribe pop gas. Anyway. You get your audio content. Apple podcasts spotify, etc. Our producer is patriotic from head stepper media. We will be back next week. I did not see that at all. We all have dark corners. That's pretty dark John. I appreciate that.

Mike LP America twitter Mike Record New York Sheldon Pierces WanNa L. P. Music News Producer Cop Takata Mike Fan Mike kind John Gary Monica York Times Archie J Gore Laos Mike Solo
EP 142 Jabari Butler Somebody Out There Needs Your Gift

Dark Horse Entrepreneur

1:05:04 hr | 7 months ago

EP 142 Jabari Butler Somebody Out There Needs Your Gift

"Why is it important to get your idea or gift out into the marketplace. Stay tuned and find out okay. Here's the question chris. How are we dark darkhorse. You know the ones everyone is betting against the ones they don't expect to win place or even show on the track and they'll even on us we talk about. How do we show the world. Our greatness in triumph come on. That's the question. This podcast will give you the answers. This is the dark force entrepreneur. Name stacey bregman. What is up. What is my dark arts friends and family. Welcome back to your weekly dose of holding yourself to a higher standard learning. I'm your darkhorse host. Tracy brickman and you will that. My friend is infinitely more important. You are driven entrepreneur or one in the making either way you're here because you're ready to start restart kickstart start leveling up with some great marketing personal or business results in order to build that beautiful business of yours into the mpr absolutely deserves to be who who. Yeah another big episode today today. Jabari butler shares so many amazing gems about being that bumblebee. That did not know he could not fly as one of the importance of holding yourself to a higher standard while providing an amazing product to a tribe of important folks. That many would just overlook. Plus i'm gonna let you in a next week's guest who has been mentored by coach for an interviewed people like damon. John gary vein or check ryan deiss. Frank kern randi zuckerberg and many many more so as per usual the dark. Horse corrals are chock full of personal business and marketing g. o. l. d. spilling from every corner of the dark horse entrepreneur. H q. so let's get to the starting gates and go all right my darkhorse friends who family. Today's guest jabari butler now. I am personally super excited about this interview. Because i have known jabari for gosh a decade and a half hour. We're gaining ourselves here right but you don't want to hear about me right. You're here because you want to hear about the man that's all about technology innovation and we'll see these are two things that a compass just about everything that jabari does where the he's ministering. Teaching speaking are developing plans for started. Businesses jabari is always looking for innovative ways to use the data and detect. That lives all around us to improve lives and community dubarry on the forbes technology council. He's a co founder of sign. One news as well as being part of the team that was awarded the us department of health and human services twenty nineteen adoption excellence award in the category of media social media and public awareness. Jabari was also a a man amongst men when it come to three ten north toastmasters back in the day. I'm sure we'll chat a little bit about that gentleman mile fringe bar butler jabari. Welcome to the dark horse entrepreneur. S thank you so much tracy thank you. Thank you who he talk about. Oh that's me. Oh my god. It was as funny as i was going back. Through the judo. Prep for this for this. Our chat together. I was like wow is killing. You have done some stuff since we were what we were talking about. It was like twelve at least nineteen ninety nine. You just popped up a picture of a ceremony with a table topics contests. Yeah we are in toastmasters. Together jabari actually had to remind me that i was his mentor. That's right back in the day. And i can tell you you know for anyone who's ever considering Engaging in public speaking toastmasters is definitely one of those programs. You know and. I'm sure it's all about the club right. We were lucky enough to have this amazing a troop of folks to help us along our public. Speaking journey in. I got to watch jabari really blossom. He started off in a little quiet first and then brock i think about six months in there was no stopping. This man right jabari. I really thank you. You know carbon timeout to come hang out with us. I wanna i wanna shut up a minute you know and you know how much i can talk right. You can talk. I'm going to undertake glenda you. That's what we gotta loss elope. Exactly right exactly right. Who's actually good that we repaired up together back in But i i actually. I want to show up here. Let you take the mic in kind of share. Your story noah. What's brought you to where you are. You're good bad ugly and then you know. Tell me why you love doing what you do so much. Sure i'll be. I'll say a few words about that. I'm debarred butler appreciate you. Come on your show. I was extremely thankful in humboldt when reached out to me about this house. Awhile with definitely. Tracy anything i would have to do that now. I had an unusual background actually was not that good initially in math in acknowledging things like that i really didn't have much interest in anything to do with with these kinds of things initially as a child and and so as i progressed through school i began to pick up. The ideas of math would have went to college. I was looking for a major. And i happen to come across a book in it was pasco. Ask him and it looked like english. I said what does this and this guy said well. It's a programming language books program. I little bit of exposure to it in elementary school and just a little bit in elementary school. We just contest things like that makes them that left that that had no idea that there's any relation to math at all. I got the college struggled through the Program book took a liking to it. And then some years later i began to get good at it and so i actually asked my professor time round my junior so as said what is different. Why are the somebody math majors in technology technology classes. Some tickets technology. I'm taking classes Remember before i could not do math class clown in high school for math. I just does not. You're having loppy. When i was not out most unlikeliest person be in that space but like tech so much that i take some. You asked him later on so i had to take linear algebra discrete algebra abstract. What have to take all these math classes and wild math people in my classes. He says you didn't know. I said it know what he said. He didn't know about math. Technologists will know about heck but understand. What do you mean. Wh what is it that. I did not know you didn't know that. Math is the closest thing. Math major is closest thing to computer science. Beijing said no grudge did tell me and then i looked up at only two courses away from having a minor again because they didn't tell me how the bobi who did not he could flat. You're not supposed to but never taught him. So that was me. I was at bumblebee and later on a credit really being able to break into more experience with technology unfortunately a to the ronald me mayor it was it was doctrine mcnair when he passed away is it actually opened the door for people like me because there is ronal image there a post baccalaureate achievement aram and that was where i got my start at every time i see a shuttle go up. Every time i see you with spacex Recently recovered that a couple days ago. Every time i see something like that. I'm always painful. Humbling reminded that it was because of someone like the way for somebody like me and and it was that program that gave me the exposure to at that time working with the number one Virtual reality team the world at the i is called our driving simulator team the time now. It's called the national driveability. I got a chance to get on that as my first project and get a chance to work with other projects system early exposure to radio shack at radio shack. I got my first exposure to something. Not some guy doesn't give a manager at a gave me some exposure to radio shack. He had these. These stores registered expos. You can added lower going as a kid. But i had as a foundation I never realized that that would be see. That was planning years ago from some guy who decided. Hey you know combined go bus a hotdog from you. Something standing around the store a little bit and elegant news and that those were seeds were planted early on that later on sprout in college and later on down the pathway into this program which gave me more experience That led to injure nose and then call loves or you right after that. The bill. More of that as a business. I'm shirley Cola and since that time of in healthcare technology for a number of years almost two decades now and also in the vertical of higher it higher education. In where i. That's where i got my introduction to into cloud technology where we took the seminary Mama minister is well. I went to the seminary at itc. Well while i was there. When i graduated i came back in a useful. Might technology experience to help my school mood to the next level in technology and so we we introduce them to the cloud technology and it was the first managed the first abc you seminary habits full in the cloud and this is back in toy eleven and so this cloud was still being developed. Marriage earns that in in. So that's how. That's how i got into the cloud technology anyway so those are some things that that i was able to do years before in in humble when i think about the forbes technology and the vhs awards like that. I'm always wrong. Good people been around with good people. My business partner karen graham. She's she's amazing to me. I'm very thankful for her. And she and. I worked together last four years now for five years now on this this is news program Herff addicting years of emmy award winning production talent in my years. Picking twenty technology Put that together to create this organization saw and so we use allow the cloud. We use quite a bit of there and bank. There's more about that later. But i think that's kind of how it happened cranky right and i think it's kinda cool that You know i. It's kinda of cool. I think so many times there are folks out there that are are struggling with a topic right and that topic for you as you were talking about was math or you know maybe for someone else. It's you know english or history or whatever it is but because you weren't aware a way you were aware that you know math was not my jake. I just it's not my thing right right but okay. I'm going here to this information tech. It seems kinda cool. I can live with that and come to find out. There's a whole lot of mass in there. And i know right but because you hadn't made that connection you're like hey this is cool. I'm rockin it and not been two classes away from a math minor. And i really kind of comes back to that. That quote you said you know no one told the bumblebee. He couldn't fly. And you're like i'm just going for it man. I'm doing this thing. I think if we can get more of that out to folks just like dude i get it. You're struggling not everyone's a dancer. I but i'm not it right. You see right you see. There's a funny story here just for a second. So jafari. I worked both work at coca cola back in the ninety s and backed in coal. Used to have these awesome holiday party. You know and they would ran out like the whole world congress center a good portion of it right and there would be a band and food and entertainment you know and then you go on for awhile and there were people like what their is. Elton john we had the four tops as there. Once you know we had the b fifty. Two's anyway so. I have no problem being in front of a crowd and i have an so i was out there and they were playing some awesome song and i was just doing messing and i did it. In such countries he dance. And so as as a running across the stage in doing like the john travolta sliding on my knees get up and do a dance thing. All that to to wind up say was we had a great time. I get it. And this was a friday night when this happened friday or saturday night. I get into work on monday morning. In sitting on my desk in an envelope is a picture of me like in the middle of a dance pose. And i'm like. Oh my god video proof somewhere but anyway all that to say we. We had some good days. But i i was coming back to. I was coming back around to to the bumblebee. I think so many times we fight these fears and we don't face them and you and i we. We fought a lot of those fears when it comes to public speaking and it's not just standing in front of a crowd right. It's learning how to say the things we want to say all the things that go with it. If we adjust can help teach people how to face those fears in in a great way then. Yeah who knows what's going to happen because if you hadn't have fought that math fear yes this organization you're at now and i do want to talk about more. Might not be here yet right. Sure i'm sure your partner that you're working with now would have found. Somebody happened but it wouldn't have been you know one. Little decision can change our whole life. But i do want to go into this in when i first thought about you. Who do i want to bring on the show. I was going through all my own names. And you happen to pop back up on my radar on lincoln and i saw this sign one news. Yeah my oh. That's kind of cool. What does that all of that. And i read what you wrote about it and then i went over and checked it out at your website like okay. This is super cool. And i thought it was really neat My wife is. She's a special ed teacher. Oh i can definitely. I can totally vibe listeners. Reaching out to those that have challenges. Whatever the challenges are yes seeing or walking her talking as you know. We all need to come together. We're we're all one big people. But again i'm going to shut up because i want you to share with everyone. What sign one news is doing in your house came to fruition in in why it's so important absolutely well might again a partnership tell you best in terms of the the initial revelation that she had allowed her to walk away from from a stellar award. Winning amazing career and on television in monday. Runner show wraps he'll tell you the story probably get care on apps thinks she can but but essentially she had a revelation in iran guides. Don't in in in aleve started a a network station for new news for the deaf and hard of hearing are differing And so then she shared some that with me out resonated with it so together. We try to figure out how do we. How do we take all this technology. deduction work in. She's done without done. How do we make them in shape. It in a way that works handsome. We prayed a team and that team in the you know talking through the whole process ended up partnering with cnn from a standpoint and that was major major slurring so now we take information like bad news. We get from cnn. Whatever you see on tv we have access to the same content and we make it accessible to if aren't here and recently were making a lot more content accessible to different hearing work with more people with disabilities defying the could be a wheelchair that could be anything between in so we realized that we not good disabilities. We think of it as different ability and and just different able in day. I mean they are we you know we all right and and so we don't look at it as them in us. We look at as is working on this together. So we take this news and information put it in format. That's in american. Sign language and american silent which is not same as english. Many people think that oh caption capsule. Captioned is not the same. Right as america's aisling matter of fact. If you wrote emerge silent you probably would think it was some sort of our griffiths. It's a different type of language all by itself it's visual language and so a verbal language visual links to different things and so we do our best educate people about that and as we bring about more awareness than people began to say. Oh well maybe there's a different way that we start getting news and information and making it more accessible and so we do that everyday. Use cloud technology will use a mix of technology matter of fact. I'm in studio here but most if not all of our staff are somewhere else. There's somewhere else their homes or in their own studios or somewhere else reducing the news. In every day we have a distribute cloud base workforce that come together producing news and they go about their business. End you won't see him. Did not anywhere here in the studio nice. And so that's just the way that we operate so just just for the layman which is me You're yours. You're still down in the atlanta area. Aren't yes i am. It's outstanding which probably made the the cnn connection a lot easier being the home territory. Down here right yeah. So you're taking the the would just use them for the example you're take their news content and then you're turning around in flipping it into a modality that someone who's having difficulty seeing or hearing can now consume that content and stay up-to-date away everything that's going on. I know exactly when we were chatting before. I hit a before we started our our actual interview. Here you're talking about you know whether it's the presidential debate. It's not we're not just talking about you know. Hey you know. Here's what's going on in his holiness right or there's a storm coming your way. We're talking about real news year as for people that they're just as interested as i am right. You're just and that's just like me. Say is just as interested as tracy is so whoever that the folks that are consuming your content. They wanna know who who you what art with. That person for president is running for what their platform is over there so they can go make their votes because their votes is like. You're saying we're all together. They're both just as important as minor. Yours or anybody else's right that's right and you bring any big point because that's one of the things we've been doing a lot more of last. Several weeks actually is helping. Good on virtual excel aecom accessible. Virtually vince eighty that. But it's it's the idea of making like how halls in voting voting instructions things like that available so that they understand what their rights are. And that's the thing is what happens. Unfortunately there's not a lot of reinforcement outside of our broadcasts get that information rights oftentimes with the only person the only group they give them that information and there's nothing night estates there's other countries that we have absolutely reached so there's about fifty different countries that are broadcast around the world and and they don't fully understand asl but it's better than nothing and so so they'll read the transcripts Provide transportation people everyday. And you'd never missed the broadcast we've been in business so the thing is is that there's people that depend larsen on what we produce because like you're right it wanna know was happening not two weeks ago. It want to see something when you get one of things that that can. It'd be early on. She was like. I want to get it on everybody else. It's and we've done things like we've done things we're a wedding. We broadcast for hours and hours all asl. You've done things with mercedes. Benz stadium in starbucks. Breaking starbucks story is going to be coming out with amazon. This a couple a couple of weeks twin. That's actually know won't a couple of days are a couple of days and we were able to chime in on the things that amazon donors story. There's a movie coming out at the question and so it's it's about someone lost their buster hearing installment experiences the deaf world. But the point is is that we're we're doing. We can to bring these kinds of issues to light and the truth is we have seen many more organizations more or less move in that direction. You starting to see now. More candidates have translators. When you see right when you see people with the emergency broadcast with kobe updates you see more people translating remember. There was a time when when karen was Now we're sitting the studio known trampling anything we're getting lack fees and we're calling and calling and saying hey. Can you put a translator out the someone to interpret this right when it or they were there was one. It will always cook the interpreter off. And so we said you know what we're gonna do it and so i really credit her for really thinking through getting more turpin come turps. Guinea worm turkeys involve to be able to get this message out there and and there are deaf interpreters near interpreters Different types interpreter for. And we just want to have the platform to be able to to give this audience. What they deserve will. We all deserve Access to information like everybody else. And so i think that part of my role has been as business and technology finding ways to to to to push it out air in a way that is is is accessible. We have apt nosso on amazon or google apple tv apple watch we will play where all these different channels right now. I i'm just. I've got my curiosity peak talking about that so In in in the news world. Let's stick with news just for a minute. So new story comes out. Is there a delay between the time that the news story is shared by like a cnn. And the time that your Your viewers would be seeing it. It depends sometimes some feeds are our live and they'll happen as fast as you see it on television okay. There has been if they're seeing on our website. Okay times when there is a delay depending upon the type of story it just depends on who is available at gotcha to be able to push it out because it has what kind of regulations they have. Yeah stragetic room territories. Because there's times both you have all cases where we get it as fast or we get it a low delay but it'll be the same information excellent and the other thing that popped in my head while you're while you're sharing was You know being in in so many countries outside the united states. Proper right I know. asl isn't universal. I know there are. There's other versions of sign language in other countries. So do do it. I mean Getting it getting. what you're getting is is top notch. Right tubs yes. Three thumbs up for that one but is there are you. Are you looking at long term plans for bringing in additional. Yes where i guess you call it. Esl or whatever it may be for european countries. I'm sure certain difficult. There's there's indian sign language in the mexican sign language in the spanish sign language. And there's all types of silent which is out it is british sign language via sale disliked. Ereck so we do have plans were working on on. Isil your national sign. That's probably the next next major things will not with that. That's and then and then other ones is time was on but we've mentioned to the public that i associate that we're looking at this. I'm excited for you. This is the kind of thing that you know. It changes for me. I think it changes lives because like we were saying we're getting you. I say we like it's me right. You're getting you're getting valuable information into the hands of people that probably before you were either. Were relying on other people that can here in c- in trying to change that communication. And i think the challenge in that and you know. I don't want to insert my opinion here. No it's my show your show you what i think. One one of the challenges with that is even if i'm taking something from a newspaper or a new show. I'm watching the risk is. I'm going to insert my opinion writing the translation. Right which is not good or bad. It just is you know. So if i'm saying well yeah. A mr biden is doing great and mr trump is doing great. You know. i'm going to say something about one of them right. I'm going to have an opinion one side or the other and trying to keep it current given the fact that we're still waiting for the election. This is true. So i mean i think that's the challenge whereas if they have a a channel like yours where they can go and see someone just sharing the information. They can form their own opinions. Just like anyone should be able to do. Now listen to the dark horse entrepreneur. Podcast you're tracy. That is one of the things that i'm so excited about that part. 'cause that is something we truly brought us owes on again. I go back to karen again in from her background. Like bachchan technology businesses tight. She makes sure the journalism stike elsewhere. Things that we pride ourselves on and that is making sure that we don't influence you. Don't push our opinion into the broadcast and one of the things that we do have as code of ethics that are anchors go by all members of death. Most of our staff is deaths over. Half of our staff is deaf actually Editors anchors in so so so we have that genuine And we do have those conversations. Maverick they're gonna have later on this evening. we do. Have the debrief sessions sessions. We talk about. Make sure that no careful with how you're presenting Stays right in Because he understands this is a visual language mannerisms make a difference at compact mixed interesting things that we talk about in postmaster. There it is. It is much more important in in these visual languages. I contact the way. United your head way you use your facial expressions all these things making very big difference. So if someone does impose their opinion. It's something that you gotta be. careful of. Our folks are trained by profession. And so we avoid those types of situations and and we pay attention to the mannerisms an all the types of non verbal communication because they Depend on nonverbal communication to communicate. And so it's very but we do keep that journalistic integrity. Which is what really sets us apart from any other organizations out. There's other news organizations who cared to death in hard of hearing and we applaud them but one of the things that that continues to allow us to be sort of head above others in the sense is that journalistic integrity is that journalistic professionalism that comes in play especially when it comes to bates in politics you get border. Interpreters also That we have very high standard that we that we stand by in week Greater we do stand by those standards and we do prosales being in that space. Not in an arrogant says but in a way that we want to promote responsibility. It's possible journalism. Not trying to impose opinion and it is hot topic. It does come up absolutely. I mean i i My my wife and i are avid followers of. I think more so this year. You're right the the president The presidential race has been. It's been a bit different especially coming coming out of the cote. Yeah right especially coming out of the covert experience right. And i think this whole past what eight months now right almost eight months six months have really flip things on their ear inn. And i'm i'm really talking beyond just who you pick for president. I mean we're talking about some of the Senatorial committees that are going on. You know where you've got the facebook's new twitter's google's going in front of these committees gone. Hey are you. should you be doing that. Yes or no. I mean right. There's a lot of things going on under the surface and you gotta be informed and there's there's a lot of data and a lot of information and You and i applaud you for sharing the information in a journal an even journalistic manner right I think i think that's not just awesome. But it's it's missing in many other journalistic channels. We've come a you know. I know i. I'm just a little older than you think this little to know five twelve years. Whatever cook playing right. But i can think back when i was a kid when your source of information it was the news right. Everyone was checking out. Mom and dad like six o'clock bam. You're watching walter cronkite or whoever it was in your municipality and then there was the newspapers for me in southern california. Was the la times you know. There's the atlanta journal constitution. You know the new york times wherever you happen to be right And backed in right. Reporters prided themselves and delivering that information that they saw the whether they agreed with it. Or not right. Yeah that's the. They brought that to the people. Saying i disagree with this. You know and so. They delivered it with that message. Hey i disagree with a. Here's what i saw right. But i think over time and i'm i'm trying i don't wanna make this all about politics in journalism but just fact that you you made the statement that hold yourself to that to that level really speaks to what you're trying to do this on or behind it in. I certainly applaud a huge efforts. Thank you so much again. Are our group increase. A because that's it's a constant over. Here is a constant thing. We see it all the time. We see it everywhere. Was that a at opinion. Or was that really. What how you can't really tell in algorithms changed things around they gotta dish sorta they want to see those things logical standpoint to. I've seen how the happens. In and again you're right. I think that it is going to be more important especially now going forward because people are making decision making life decisions right ossetia's information and there's going to be a lot more automation behind these things. They're gonna find more ways they've been technologist. New whatever will find more ways to get more information out there. But i like to think that there will continue to be places in spaces where we are able to provide something that people can make the decision making avid on either sway. You one way or the other. Here's information and you can go figure it out so you have a mind you can use it see and this is what of the things that always resonated with with you. My friend jabari is you. Were like this way back in the day. You like that now. It's like hey you and i. We don't have to agree on everything right. We agree on a lot of things. I know that we've had lots of chats. But the thing is. I can still have a chat with you and say. Hey this is what i think. And you'd be like okay. That's cool you. You can think that. I'm not going to think that that's europeans different than mine and we can walk away. Still having a monica respect for one another and then come back together the next day the next week at the next postmaster meeting everything's fine. It's not like oh well. He likes that thing over there. No it's we're all we're all to get raw we right. Yes but we're all different at the same time that's correct and i think there's the magic right there right. Is that all right. We're all a little bit different so you're doing some cool. Things are any any any cool things on the horizon. You can share colby's on horizon share. I know you've got all kinds of things on the horizon like top secret. I can only imagine right. We do we do there yet. I wish assured is there's some people there there's content that we are coming out with that. Really wish i could share with you yet signed india but i think there's something else that i hadn't okay so there is well there's event coming up in december the first and we're going to be helping with this this virtual event. It's a fundraiser. that's coming up. Sco is one sponsors and organization. The organizations called synergies work. Oh someone who's gonna be providing we're providing the management behind it ends can be allowed cool. Thank people on there and Is going to be a big deal. there's gonna be some wine tasting cheese and things like that virtually so we're going to manage that and then i think there are. There's yes there's a couple of days we rolling out terms of building our broadcast making it much more. What can say we're gonna. We're gonna expand it quite a bit over the next couple of months and so you'll be seeing more of that in other words. We'll have more on our platform on naps. Things like that more coming out. So but you're there is. There is really cool. I wish i could tell you. I think no i get it. I i figured there. I figured give me like a week a week. Frog akkad probably pushed out. Because what next. I i tell you what wisdom allow. When's this this is going to be going. I probably in about four six weeks. There's going to be a some time. Okay cool so. I said his mustache. Okay okay so let me share what you can get in trouble weeks. Yeah it has six weeks now absolutely okay. Thank you because Now we have content that we're going to be converting which is from a nba talent nba end. That is like really major and so we'll probably released like next week or so. But but but he is is that this is an unprecedented thing because We have this and we're gonna make accessible and it's something that i think it's a bit of experiment it really is but i think that is. Nba players and retire player will be able to convert a form. That was already out there in the snyder farm out to the public. That's not like news. That s out there. It's open to the public job but but the translation of it. Something i'm able to do in that's really cool. Because we think that once we get that kind of content out out there will be our platform exclusive. And i think that will be on our platforming in air platform exclusively. Sure and i think that's a major major step for for our group in for the Are different community have had a level professionals Next to us in there is a movie. Coming out at amazon is pushing in its Is coming out in a couple of days. It'll be hitting the theaters in limited release in atlanta two days. And there's an interview that i can say this much can't say who but we did get a chance to interview one of their key. People and the interview will be made available. Ooh is available now is available now. It's either available out was going to be available next air so our hands. We got a chance to interview one of the one of the main characters in this movie night. And so we think that's going to be it's called the What is the name of that. Movie is called the sound of sound a sound of metal. So is coming out in two days in theaters and it will be in the in december. It'll be out oliver amazon. And so these cool products. We had a chance to connect with amazon studio to to work with that. That was really cool experience. And so i think we will look forward to doing other things. But we'll have a chat session or it'll be a sound table around 'til but a sound table. I have a cup of our are deaf staff talk about or chat or communicate with each other regarding what they thought about about this This movie in big. It'll be interesting session. that's gonna become of mystic. So that's gonna cool think and this is just an. I'm just. I could sit here and talk about this but i think one of the things that's piqued my interest is in in you being the tech guy might be able to give me some insight. Sure sure you think that the tech is they're almost there to enable your core clients right your core audience to watch. I'll call it. Say here's a great example. I'm cruising through my social media and i see this video. Maybe it's whoever it's in somebody and they're talking right and there's no there's no subtitles you think. Technology is going to be there now or soon for someone to say you know. I clicked this button here in some. Asl person will pop up in or maybe it's a computer generated aso. I don't know i'm just. I'm just thinking of so many ideas that you could be taken this. It's like are we there yet or is there still some limitations. That are keeping that right. So there's lots of technology in that space. There are some technologies that do convert what people are saying that. Real-time apps we can talk to see the the caption come across the screen. So that i've seen those. Yeah but when it comes to anything. I think you're right. There is a Are some steps that have we taken make that more accessible because it's very difficult language to end so. Mit's mother organizations have have made great tips folks in other countries and a theme. Arkansas there was trying to find ways to to grain that apple technology to life. Nice way. there's so many nuances with language. It makes good challenge so there are a number of companies that are working toys now. Nice to be able to be in that mix help bringing about of course it vote i. It's funny and here. Here's what here's what really brought it to mind so. Obviously it wasn't this year but i went to go see the The show hamilton live down in chicago. Might my daughter's huge hamilton fan. And when they came by we went to go see them in one of the time we were there watching him down down toward the front was people then had asl translators. Okay okay and And what was amazing is like you're in when you were telling the story earlier. I didn't want to interrupt you. You could watch the person that was doing two translation in their face told half the story yet right so they're using their hands and do all the things in their arms and their bodies but their face you know was telling the you know the sorrow and anger in the habit. I mean just like they again. I'm going to loop back to our toastmasters days writer. It's that that this here is a communication. And i'm waving my hand in front of my face for those. That are just listening to this on a podcast sweater. But your face hell much of a story that you know. If you're just listening to the words or are just looking at the fingers making awards right. Then you're missing half the story so that's where i was thinking. Oh my god could go there. But there's so many new like you said nuances and i can see how it could be very very difficult. And yes they'll get there. I what possible absolutely. Yeah i mean again. There are some places where they've had some automated anchors. I've seen that in some asian countries and that's been out really interesting technology there and there are some other technology that follows a hand move knitted allows someone signing to be able to convert that into english. Some of the language is out there in so so is definitely there and there's number of again companies organizations that are really trying to push to make the like to be able to be in that mix so we talk about it. I talked. I talked about as often. And that's been we like to be able to do the meantime. We think that were working on other kinds of of ethnological advances. Because right now we're really pushing the limits of technology to do a we do. I mean it's not like anything out. There is readily available for us to just do we do to work around that. We have developed in in in prostitutes. We've had to put in place. The work around technology that is largely hearing base is hearing culture based technology. So she'll tell you i've had come up with solutions that don't really work elsewhere. But but they have the work for us for us to do we do so so even the basic things that we use right now is not geared toward the work we do so we have our own processes we have to enforce onto it to to make our brackets sweden. So we're dealing with basic alone. Something that can help translate what we're doing so that that was one of the things that we discover early on was that amount biases a have a program background technology background in my own understanding. I never had of course in in more. Morehouse college course at talked me about how we make. This work for hard Short alimony other courses out there that really do that intentionally sure program. That's being for instance. I think went to we use. If you don't have audio in it in you plug audio. It does the air. Hey something's wrong. You don't have your audio plug dan. Well that makes sense if you're hearing what if he not here. I don't need audio error. Right but i know that that's how we've been hot young trained that way in. So those has a issues that i would like to bring to the forefront in asked more or less encouraged programmers in cursing naasi industry to think different about how we develop the technology instead of being an afterthought retrofit it could by going into the fleet vague about the inclusively rather this. Don't make the assumptions. That just because i have headphones on means i can hear any goes to streaming platforms in the same way. Although i think there's some that making those changes but district platforms are challenged in. We're in that as now. Where virtual streaming everyone has do it in sao. Now we're finding that will push limits that we've had we've had put together to string it all the elements that think that ultimately. Yes there's some lab somewhere has got some really cool. See and i like to be part of making it. Come out nice looking out for that but you know the main thing is that we do our best to make things work absolutely. We still produce magic over there now. I'm gonna say this. You mentioned one thing. I do want to say do want you to understand is that none of this has happened. Easily challenges in anything a with light say is that anything dealing with this type of otniel effort now started a couple of different businesses for and anna was like to have to go territory. This in this one was fully on chart like there is no one even now that they did we look around and and we we have no the model after we didn't know who to who to pattern after we could pick up a book or google payne to see what we're doing on my gosh right and for many things continues to be that way. The ones we got into that space. We said okay. Let's despite innovating less just create but that has has a big price that we've had to pay and and it has been lots of challenges has been lots of heartache. A lot of pain. A lot of toil love tears. So i don't want you or your audience to think that it was just all we just walked in. Does all these things just happen. Because that's how it always right. No it was it was it was it was many unknowns. There are many unknowns. Many uncertainties there were many mistakes. There are many challenges. There are many times we had inquired about what we're doing ask questions. There were many people that didn't think that we could last this long. We were attacked quite a bit daily. A trolls were trolling the like everybody. But you're right happens right and so we. We had lots of things take place in. We realized that we had to believe enough to know that. Whatever we're doing is good and if we just stay stay focused and we could just leave long ourselves in know that you know worst says of god before it could be against in. We have a strong background. We believe strongly in the power faith and faith envisioned a really. What what ten us to drive us forward. Is that vision of something better. The vision of making another person dreams come alive. I think we get encourage. We see there's one do people in may be quarter rico or one or two people some distant land we've never heard of this country is on this list. We'd heard of somebody out there. That has a dream that it has a chance to say. Wait a minute. I could do that to. Maybe i'm the only one here. But maybe i'm the only one death need to get this thing started and i think that would drives us Particular is to know that. There's somebody out there. That's getting this in their in their spirit in the somebody out there waiting for us to have Waiting for us to come and make something happen saying now that day i think i i think what you're doing first off. What you and your team your whole crew right. You're carrying build something really unique and you're really like you're i think you're you're getting two zero people all over the world who are getting information and on tent that they didn't have access to or easy access to before and that's for me that's changing lives and if you can change in you've heard me say this and speeches way back in the day if what i say changes one person one degree. My job here is done. That's exactly you know. And so. I think what you're doing is obsolete near changing far more than one degree and i'm going to be singing your praises but ideally no and i want to be mindful of your time because ozzy you you got playing gigs and things going on and you're an hour ahead of me so you really rocketed by hanging out with me this late at night you did share that you had an offer for the audience. Oh oh oh yeah we we have offered with is so we could certainly provide. We do have a subscription okay subscriptions to our broadcast but i think i do want to work something out where your viewers your listeners can get a these we can give up Remember so can give them a whole this year. Anyone The broadcast on our dime for the rest of the year with the skin that they can they can check it out. Hug co yeah. We'll work out. The logistics of aten would lead into the show notes for everybody know that would be awesome. Good thome and they can wash on roku. Tv were checking out the checkout the magic that that my man bari and karen graham have created jabari. Like i said. I wanted to be mindful of your time and i appreciate. You really sincerely my friend hanging out for so long and again man i. I applaud the amazing things that you guys have created for all our friends out there that are that are in need of it. Matter of fact will make ninety days. I'll give him three ninety days. This air it is say a man create magic right there right and we'll be sure to Will will connect in. We'll figure out how to get that code in there and i'll drop it into this show buddy any parting words of wisdom from you jabari Dream big big aetna was told me by a number of one of my. He people Gentleman from you can grow rich in Liked choice in noble hill. We know in big nick. Nick is is one of the things that i promise. Because dennis kimbrough's who is the person that should many years ago while i was at coca cola and i had no idea that would i would in a position to impact people's lives like this and i think that if anyone would air to drain than indefinitely do it and go for your dreams though form because you have to believe in yourself. Don't wait anybody to to validate away for any bytes. Tell you one way or the other. And i think that is funny talking to you if you talk to me. Two months ago. I have different spurred for some fresh fresh in out into this other space that you know we've been able to to be in terms of helping people not just different here people but it's also organizations that that a service Advocacy are for our population of Say i think that working with organizations like gao the george advocacy organization office and other organizations like that these organizations that care about unity. Working with and i think that us being Think that for us to be able to dream. Big also takes solid partner. Thanks good people that you trust in people that you can depend on to be there to support you. I think that we must continue. Especially in this age. This provides some inspiration provided inspiration. Go for your dreams. Your goals be shaking by. Don't worry about the fear they feel the fear and do it anyway. yes sir. it's not fair as you all would teach us and tell us the fear will go away is that you learn how to manage it better. And i think that riga's optima all the time in that resonated with me to this day is go away Situation where can manage it better. So i think thank god for in a bank. I think my church rayo khokar church got a research out to them as well and my wife is well. They only in in my daughter mirror because these of cornerstone people. That are in my life that i cannot do without disclosing network this chart. Absolutely people is not just mean Way of doing things. But i realized that there are people who are putting our path for in. I think that if we air to only drink. But if there's one thing i would say to do out the most important anything of had to say she never remember anything i said in a minimalist do this and that is write it down. Write it l. Date next to it and think about it and dream on it in visualize in you know. Hit that exact date Scratched out right another date. It's your day to keep going to get there and we'll see at the was you know that would do abe inch dry. I i totally hear you about Getting those butterflies to fly in formation. Right they're not going to go away. You've just got to get those butterflies to fly. Oak master has spoken roy. Thanks so much for hanging out. This man i definitely appreciate your time. User been has been obliged all right so you have it my friends my man jabari butler man. I've known him for such a long time and he still amazing to this day All right so let me share some thoughts. I came away with thought number one. be the bumblebee. That doesn't know you can fly. Yeah stop giving into all those things that scare you or that. You do not think you're able to do be the bumblebee that doesn't know can't fly in just start flapping damn wings davar shares. How you know. He wasn't doing well in math in his early days in school so in college he chose a computer science major and he excelled at it but he kept wondering why he kept finding math majors in computer classes. Come to find out at the end of the end of the day. He was two classes away from having a minor in math even throw. He did not do well in math in his early days. Stop focusing on what it is you could not do yesterday or even yesteryear start focusing on what it is. You have a passion floor in kit even better at it. Pick up a book. Get a course get a coach topic that lights you up inside and become the mestre you go from young. Lean to paddle on tonight to jet. I master on the topic so that you can best serve your tribe as only you can. And here's the next thing inside that remember. You don't have to be the master before you start serving your tribe. Take on your journey with you that way. You both grow all right thought number two. Who should you join forces with to magnify both of your missions. Jabari and his business partner. Karen both had completely different skill. Sets both had matched passions as jabari said he quote make sure the tech is tight and his business partner karen make sure the journalism is tight unquote see taking these two completely different passions and put it into gather in a project to service. Their tribe has created business that they both can be very proud of so the question becomes what on your entrepreneurial journey is holding you back from that next level of service to your tribe. Do you know of someone that has a high amount of passion in that very area but if so perhaps you to she joined forces and create a win win situation for both of you. I mean l. Jet he think about it. You're really creating a win win win you win. Your partner wins and more importantly those you serve win and isn't at the end of the day is not what it's all about thought number three. Hold yourself to a higher standard when you're out there in the true fashion of service you're going to have to hold yourself and those under your command to a higher standard after all your tribe is looking t you for input to you for information and to you for answers so give it to them but give it to them honestly if you find something that works view but you don't like person behind the product okay. Tell them look. This product works great. But i'm not a fan of person x. Because of this or because of that be open in honest about are and what you stand for and what you don't stand for the won't stand for if person x. stands for something you don't believe in them perhaps it. Will you be better served to find an alternate solution for said product so that you can share that with your tribe while still being true to who you are which is hugely important and i say that because you know like not too long ago i was following someone and you could say i looked up to them in their area of expertise and they had some negative things to say publicly about a popular funnel product in the online space. And they didn't just say it once they sit at a number of times and then shortly afterwards after they made these statements i went into one of their funnels and found out there using the very product that they were publicly bashing. Do you think this had an impact on how they how i saw them going forward. Yeah you bet there. Bibi did right. And if you can take your reputation and his thought up against a wall like that and let it bashed into in pieces. That's cool but he's thing. Ill take you a lifetime to build your reputation but you can lose it in five seconds. If you're not not mindful and in alignment with who you are one hundred percent of the time. And i'm not coming at you with a grown. I've changed now. That's not the angang coming at you from right have grown and you've changed then tell them. Hey i look used to see it this way now. I see it this way and get that but when you to say hey. Here's how i see it in. I dislike this and all sudden. This thing that you said you disliked shows up in your content in your products into your services. Now you're no longer congruent. And you wanna hold yourself to that higher standard right and finally thought number four get energized by the vision of bringing someone else's dream to life mickey money awesome. Don't get it twisted. i'm all about. I've had money and i haven't had money and life is quite a bit easier with some money to be sure. And i. i'm not gonna you know. Pull no punches in that one. But if that your sole purpose than i doubt my friend. This is the podcast for you. My dark friends and family are far. More focused on serving their tribe in the money comes as a result of that right helping their tribe bring their passions and their visions and their dreams to life. But do that you need your gift. They need your gift. Your tribe needs your gift so stand up take the first step or take the next step to get your gift out there because after all someone out there needs your gift in order to bring their dream to life so get out there and help that one person changed their life by one degree all right. My dark arts friends have family. What inspiring ideas or tips or thoughts resonated with you. Whatever they were right take some time today and put them in the action. Go out there run your race. Get your results income. Let me hear about them. I am seriously no joke. Email me at tracy at dark horse. Schooling share the tips or ideas that you came away with how you put an action and what results you gained as a result. And then i. I probably even bring you on the show so you can share it with the rest of our friends and family now on next week's interview episode. My guest is jason portnoy. now he's the host of the perfectly mentor. Pot guests jason's also been featured in forbes inc magazine entrepreneur buzzfeed yahoo finance nbc. Abc cbs fox. The list goes on and on and on. He has worked with business owners. All over the world and jason's gonna to stop by and drop some his amazing entrepreneurial knowledge. So you're not gonna wanna miss this episode speaking of missing episodes. I know you wanna keep getting all these valuable tips and inspirational stories from this podcast guests. I'm lucky enough to bring on so please go on down. There hit that subscribe button. Wire there go ahead and leave us a five star right. Some kind words in the review heck even tell me some constructive criticism. Maybe some guests. You'd love to hear onto the show and of course do not keep all this. Entrepreneurial g. o. l. d. alter yourself share the podcast with other entrepreneurs and business owners. They you know we'll get value from it and with that. I'm gonna leave you as i always do. Think successfully and take action. Thank you for listening to the dark horse entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for tuning in and check us out at. Www dot darkhorse schooling dot com. My name is tracey bregman.

jabari cnn jabari butler stacey bregman Tracy brickman Jabari butler John gary ryan deiss randi zuckerberg forbes technology council us department of health and hu butler jabari karen graham tracy bobi amazon ronal shirley Cola Herff jafari
A Bowl of Soul A Mixed Stew of Soul Music Broadcast - 08-28-2020

A Bowl of Soul A Mixed Stew of Soul Music

1:07:53 hr | 1 year ago

A Bowl of Soul A Mixed Stew of Soul Music Broadcast - 08-28-2020

"The days are getting shorter and you can feel it in the air. Yes. It's that time of year, Pumpkin is finally back at Dunkin. It's the cozy. You've been craving all summer long now in Your Cup at Dunkin, pick up all of your pumpkin favorites like the signature pumpkin spice ice Latte, or a Pumpkin iced coffee and bakery items like pumpkin doughnuts and muffins sip into something comfortable to celebrate the start of cozy season. Use the Dunkin APP for contactless ordering America runs on Dunkin. You reach the right place, a destination called soul. It's the Biro Nex you-know-what snacks it. Bowl of soul a mix to of so museum A. Hi this is Bernadette Cooper from the group climax and you're listening to a bowl of soul a mix of music in slapped me because I know I'm looking good. please. Don't. Don't. Know. But. You now. In the back. The back. The way. About the news Tom. The ponds. And the. All send you to the. Don't leave. A. Off. And the and the can stick. Not. ME. And this is a bowl of soul had to give you some classic rhythm and Blues from Nineteen Hundred Fifty three from Mr Floyd Dixon was born February. Eighth Nineteen, twenty nine and he died July twenty, six, two, thousand and six and he played rhythm and Blues Texas. Blues West, Coast Blues, and he was a pianist and a singer and he was active from one, thousand, nine, hundred, forty, nine to two, thousand six and you know this man he was when he grew up, he was fluent. Spy Blues Gospel, and Jazz and country music, his family moved to Los Angeles California in one thousand, nine, hundred, forty, two, and miss. The Floyd Dixon met the legendary Charles Brown who had an influence on his music you know Floyd Dixon was called. Mr Magnificent and he was signed to a recording contract with modern records in one thousand, nine, hundred, forty, nine, specializing in jump blues and sexualize songs like Red Cherries wine wine wine too much. Jelly Roll and baby. Let's go down to the woods. That's funny both Dallas Blues and Mississippi Blues is credited to Floyd. Dixon. Trio which reached the billboard rb chart and nine, thousand, nine, hundred, forty, nine as the sad journey blues issue by peacock records and nineteen fifty, this gentleman Mr Floyd Dixon and nineteen ninety three received a pioneer award from the rhythm and Blues Foundation and you know what? We celebrate missed the Floyd Dixon given us the beginnings of not only rock and roll, but before rock and roll. Rhythm and Blues, and this is a bowl of soul and we got come at you with another classic way back in the day from nine, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, six, the nobles talking about who's been writing my mu and this is a bowl of Seoul. This is your man Jay most in your listening to soul music at its best a bowl of soul mix stew of soul music. Way, over known. Mood Neil. Food. got. Out Get. Then My. My. I like my friend. got. Eastern bull. Bad News. Bad Bad. Most. have ruined on a dog is back. It'd be a hard if you got A. Had Bad. In this down on a new. Back Man. Mad. WHO's been mine? Who's been Bob Mueller? You know a lot of these classic rb songs have hidden meetings, but this song was from one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, six from the nobles talk about who's been riding my meal that was on Sapphire records back in Nineteen fifty-six, and this is a bowl of so a mix to of so music. This is professor not love coming at you once again, bringing us some classic soul and new Ram Be right here on a bowl of soul coming up next spring and use some classic Detroit. Detroit so from Steve Mancha. Talking Abou did my Baby Hall and this is a bowl of soul. Hi there. This is kathy cousins. If you WANNA listen to classic soul an independent army be music you reach the right place, a bowl of soul, a mixed stew of soul music. Pro. Streets. Paid. Makes me. Back. No. would. Our. Did Not be called Baby I. Give it to him Steve. Did my baby call love that that song on Wheels Ville. Was a forty five and was done in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty five but just to tell you. About Steve Mancha he was Clyde Darnell Wilson? He was from while Hala. A Wall Hall South Carolina and he was born December twenty fifth on Christmas nineteen, forty five and he died January eighth two thousand eleven in Detroit Michigan and you know Steve Mancha was really a underrated soul singer I consider considering that and I've heard his voice before I knew he was doing forty five singles in Detroit you know he used to. Also do songs under his name Clyde Wilson when he was first signed with Harvey Fuqua and he recorded the single. Just, too much to hope for, and you know then he got with Don Davis and he basically recorded for as Steve Mancha and nine, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, six, he changes name and he recorded on groups Ville. Records from Detroit but one. Particular Group that I heard his voice in is in the Holly Dosier Holland? Produce Group on hot wax and invictus label. One hundred proof aged in Seoul and he was. The lead vocalist along the Joe Stubbs and Eddie holiday he was also in the group eighth. Day AS WELL AND WE CELEBRATE MR Steve Mancha which I feel you gotta to some his forty fives he had this Song call Monday through Thursday, a love like yours, you know he has some classic classic arm besides that were. Great he also that I remember his voice on when he was with one hundred age proof age in Seoul. One man's leftover is another man feast driveway ninety day freeze. I'd rather fight the switch everything good is bad and don't scratch where don't it and this is a bowl of soul celebrating the legacy. Of Mr. Steve, Mancha coming up next got some more classic soul this group was discovered by. Was Describing by Otis redding and they did a single like a philly soul single. That was distributed on stacks records. The epsilon is talking about the echo and this is a bowl of soul. Law. Is Away. You. Left me. Oh. Wow ME. Shoot. Me makes them. Look. We not. and. Be Back. See. You just that. Win. A minute. WHOA. Got To drop a bomb on at one. God Y. You know what? This is what's so great about. Classic Soul because what you find out. That the people that were in these groups went on to be very accomplished. Either singers or Songwriters, and this particular group. The EPP salons contain Lloyd parks who was a falsetto singer in the original Harold Melvin and the blue notes gene McFadden of McFadden and whitehead that wrote ain't no stopping us now and also wrote songs for Melba Moore and many more Villi Soul label of Philadelphia. International records and John Whitehead all three of these singers were in this group, the EPP salons and they went on two different past gene McFadden and John Whitehead wide head team together the right someone do greatest classic rb songs for PR and Lloyd Parks went on to become part of Harold Melvin and the blue notes, and this is a bowl. So I love that song. Baby the Echo Wolf got to give you some of that classic soul and coming up next. I'm still going to keep you on the stax label coming up next on the volt record label one of the baddest southern doo-wop groups to come out of the south the mad lads talking about whatever hurts you this single also came out in thousand, nine, hundred, and sixty eight. Nine hundred sixty eight was a great year for some classic soul. Here audible of Seoul the man laughs talking about whatever her chew and this is a bowl of soul. Hi. My name is Andy Stokes and you listen to a bowl of soul. A mix of so busy. In your. where? Out of. ood. Breaks Ma. ooh. Smile La. To outside. Sweden. Wait a smile. To. Let. I. Men's. You. Me To. Whatever her she babe. I love it. Classic. Soul from the mad last. You know. There are no living members of of the mad last the last remaining living member John Gary? Williams he died. In two thousand and nineteen in May two, thousand, nineteen at the age of seventy three. But the original members of the mad lads were John Gary Williams Julius Screen William Brown Robert Philip Sam Nelson Quincy billips junior and Darryl. Grand Berry and the group was formed that Booker T. Washington High School in Memphis Tennessee USA in you know they were originally called the emeralds but changed their name because there was another group that had that name and at the suggestion of stacks employees Miss Dini Parker. She said. CHANGE IT and recognition of local disc, Jockey Ruben, mad lad. Washington and you know they they're I recorded stacks single nine, hundred, sixty four was called the sidewalk sidewalk served, which was written by Isaac Hayes. Under the name pseudonym of Ed Lee which was not a hit, but the second record. They had don't have to shop around rose to number eleven on the billboard rb chart and number ninety three on the pop chart you know but they followed up with I want someone these are the classic Grinders Green Light Basement type thing I want a girl. Patch my heart was a little more upbeat, but they were all armed be hits in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, six, you know. But they they're career ended but am one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, two but John. Gary Williams. Continuing on that stacks and recorded a solo. Then late on, he reformed a new version of the Matlab, in one, thousand, nine, hundred four, and they had a album call madison ever in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, we celebrate. The mad last who I thought was underrated. Vocal group right here on a bull of soul what bring up a nice joint from James Brown because you know. James Brown. was off charts you know in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, nine had this song called so prized. Part. One and part two has some great break beats in it. Well got to give it to you right here. So pride is this is. A bowl pool of saw, this is your man Jay most in your listening to soul music at its best a bowl of soul mixed to of soul music. and. A. Bill. Do Kill it. Ha-. Give. Killa FRIG. Oh. GotTa. Give a blast for that. Yeah. Wow that was the killer break beep on that you know. Classic. James. Brown. You know what can I tell you man? He's just a man. That's that was instrumental written by James Brown and and Alfred Ellis, which was pee wee Ellis, and recorded by James Brown, his band it was released as a two part single in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, nine and charted number thirty, three R&B from the album. So pride the instrumentals and you need to know why unit you need to listen to a bowl of so. Music from fifty fifty, fifty, a little bit of the sixty sixty sixty thrown in with similar seventy, seven, seventy mix well with the with the bring to boil the ninety. s just a judge of the future future. That's our recipe for a bowl of soul. So here on a bull. So we want to celebrate one of our armed be legends who just passed away on August twenty second two, thousand twenty by the name of dwayne Julius Rogers and you know he was known for the tender Acoustic Piano Ballads say you love me which was the charting single from his nine hundred and seventy-five RCA album and you know in his beginning days he was known for playing funk and on one of my previous podcasts, I have played a funk single that he did from nineteen seventy, three on shelter records call Dj, Rajas? And you know the song that was killer. Woo that was killed called bailout but right here on a bullet. So we celebrate the legacy Mr, DJ Rogers and we're GONNA play for you. Say You love me and this is a bowl of soul. You this this to. Of Service. ME. I'm the one. Your Eyes See. Me You need. Down inside. You. See. See. I WANNA. Hear you say. You. Will Never. Do. Sometime. Can. Bob. God. Yes. Giving you some classics Oh from DJ Rogers Talking about, say you love me like I say the he passed away on August Twenty Second Twenty Twenty at the age of seventy, two and. You know Natalie Cole covered this song. It was the first single from her album called snowfall on the Sahara which was released in June of nineteen ninety. Nine. And we celebrate DJ Rogers and we got to play something that he did with Renee Spearman that came out in two thousand thirteen talking about wove to. And this is a bowl of soul. South. Being so Where is my guy? Scenes much better. Revelation. What? To who believe? Have turned. Around From. S. been. Capi meant? Ah. Ah. Bullshit. Sleep and slumber. One. That is beautiful. This is a Gospel single that he did with renee spearman fact they did to cuts together called another way. This is on Rene Spearman's album from two, thousand, twelve, two, thousand, thirteen and we celebrate DJ Rogers and you know the guy I felt was very underrated. He was a vocalist Piano Player Saint Gospel, Funk R&B ballots, you name it. The guy was very stellar. We love you DJ the celebrate you and we celebrate you right here on a bowl of soul. Coming, up next. Again some more classic soul from these ladies from Tau in the seventies mid seventy s this single was written by Pam Sawyer, who was also the CO writer of Love Hangover which Kinda came out around the same time. Love Hangover Nineteen, seventy, seven time is flying I remember that these ladies I call them pre in vogue high energy talking about you can turn me off right in the middle turn me on. This is a bowl of Solo. You're listlessness to. This. A. Vis. Can't? In In. Gang. De. That's. Teens. Style. The. New. York. Make. Almost. Events. and. You. Told you. A Stock. Stay. Flat. She Paddington. Classic Oh from one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, six, seventy, seven you know a high energy were from Pasadena California and they consisted of Michelle Martin Linda. And Sisters. Vanessa and Barbara Mitchell in December two, thousand and twelve. We Lost Linda Howard. She passed away in Los Angeles But you know at that time early in that year, she had announced that she was working on her first solo album and she issued. A Nice single call I'm not mad at you. You know and you know we celebrate high energy and Linda how're and you know that was a hot single you know actually they say that high energy never landed another hit in either solo pop top. They were discovered by Berry Gordy sister Gwen Gordy and they were signed to Motown nineteen seventy six. He's celebrate high energy right here on a bullet soul and now we go play. New Music. From CIBO from south. Africa, talking about as the seasons change in. This is a bowl of soul. Take it. Is Known. As the seasons change. One your. Eggs. To The stars I come in Just. Crass. Task We. Talk. And that no. CAUSAL BE? As the seasons. I love you. In some pray. The seasons and As you walk by. Feel. And he took. The stars I come in now? Does bramble. Crossed. Yes Sure. that. Will. Be. As the seasons change. Stasi's. Slow. Turn. The season's junior. One. To Man. To. The stars. Gas He. How? We. As. The season's. ONATE. To. Come. Thank you. Answer. Great. Giving you some new music from Cibo from Eastern Cape of South Africa her name is Siebel Si soul. MMA SESA whe. And she began singing in the choir it eight six and you know she taught herself how to play the piano and you know this music. Performs as Afro Soul Rb Housing Music or any John Mara. ooh, that expresses a positive outlook on life. Make sure you support. CBO. This is offer her solo debut album called breaking dawn. You can purchase this single as the seasons change on. Amazon. Dot Com so support. SIEBU. Coming up next we got some new music from Taiwan talking about available baby and this is a bowl. All of soul. ooh. Akin to the. JAGS and. Now. To move onto action. In can I get this? No. Income. I can get you. A. final. Loved. The. Baby. China. Kazoo. Saying you need someone has gone love. Benetton's. Had Get name. I'm men. I. AM. With. final. Blow. ooh. ooh. As you. Hi planes the. Next to me because mine says. No. Good me. To, know. Is. Bad. Man. Give you. Has Been. With. that. Support. My Man Taiwan talking about available baby make sure you get that single and I'm going to leave you with. A. Gentleman is a gospel singer, but I thought this song was pretty hot. It's called how we used to be. From David Livingston just came out and twenty nineteen right here on a bowl of soul. To. Thousand. All these. Loose, surging blue unitive. Remember. The Swedes. You. Remember. We used to be. Good No one knew would ask. Bad All the time. WHO Remember. We used to be. To Go. Home. It's hard to. Only. And my be bird. And Me? Are Being. To be. Good. All the we. We used to. All the time. Remember. We. I like that. I like that. That's David Livingston make sure you go to his website www dot David Livingston, alive V. I. Gent. L. E. V. I N. G. S. T. O. N. that US THAT IS ON RECORD SCOTT WWW dot l. o. r. e.. D. S. records, DOT COM, and this is the end of a bowl of soul. Hope you enjoyed this segment of the bowl make make make sure you catch up with a bowl of soul by going to my website www dot abol sold dot com make sure you catch up with the bowl of saw on the progressive radio. Network www prn DOT FM as six. PM. Eastern. Standard Time Three PM Pacific make sure you catch up with the ball of so on live three sixty, five getting nonstop. So music including the PODCAST and a couple of talk shows like love sex and. Relationships with the professor and professor. T love right. Hit me up on g mail at a bowl of soul edge email dot com definitely follow me on facebook a bowl them soul a mixed stew of so music also, you can follow me on Instagram at a bowl of. So we're actually at professor PRI with t love. Make sure you go to youtube check out my interview that I had with Mike nap O of mine dog TV where I was talking about the history of so music and I also did an interview last week was Santiago Ramona's who was young man neck's brother. Very accomplished he. Also does musical composition. He's a musician and he interviewed me on soul music spirituality the whole nine waiting for him to post up those links I'll let you know but definitely, you can check out the interview with Mike Napoli was a lot of fun. Check. It out. My Dog TV on, Youtube okay. Check. It out. Professor T, love China make some. Moves make sure you support a abolish soul. You can support US support independent media by going to Patriot. PA T. R. E. O. N. DOT COM slash a bowl of salt. Support this is a labor of love and I love bringing you music from back in the days thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, nine to the president but support independent media definitely. Okay. We Love You I. Love You and we will be back with another episode of a Bola. So I'm going to celebrate the legacy of Mr Stevie. Wonder I. Hope you enjoyed it be safe out there. You know we're coming to come into the end of August. Do you believe that been home six months? Praying that this covert is hope over please vocal. I don't care who you vote for just vote exercise. Your right to vote. You know what I'm saying and and you know because that's a power full Gif that we all have been given. Okay. Definitely. Make sure you protect yourself and love one one another check on your neighbors especially the elderly you know we celebrate our elderly on. As. Well, my mother and father both elder people in their eighties loved to the death. You know what? I'm saying but check on your neighbors. Okay. But tune in next week and you're listening to a bowl of saw. You'RE LISTENING TO A. New to Medicare start. Now, go to my healthpolicy dot. Com to learn about some of the top rated Medicare advantage plans in your area including plans for zero dollars a month in plan premiums low out of pocket cost and expensive provider networks. If you're thinking about a Medicare advantage plan, my healthpolicy dot com is a great place to go to find a plan that meets your needs learn more about your options even talk with a licensed insurance agent, my health policy dot Com. If, you have an unpaid debt to the IRS that you can't pay. Please hear this special notice specially approved irs relief programs designed to aid delinquent taxpayers are now in effect that can significantly improve your financial situation depending on your circumstances, you may qualify to have your tax problem resolved in your favor and may even have your back taxes reduced by thousands or eliminated. Entirely, a relief hotline has been established by community tax for you to call and see if you qualify at eight hundred, three Oh five. Sixty seven sixty two if you owe the irs back, taxes that you can't afford to pay, don't let the irs trick you into thinking. You have no way out our highly accredited tax professionals will let you know what you qualify for and how much you can save. We may be able to stop all Liens garnishments levies and save you thousands call and see if you qualify for this taxpayer relief at eight, hundred, three, oh, five, sixty, seven, sixty, two, that's eight, hundred, three, zero, five, sixty, seven, sixty, two.

Mr Floyd Dixon Seoul MR Steve Mancha dwayne Julius Rogers Detroit professor Jay Bob Mueller US IRS Renee Spearman Dunkin James Brown Los Angeles California Blues Foundation Texas Cibo Taiwan China David Livingston
Wednesday, November 6, 2019

Westwood One Daily News Flash Briefing

07:56 min | 2 years ago

Wednesday, November 6, 2019

"From Washington DC. This is Westwood. One Daily News for Wednesday November six twenty nineteen. I'm Christopher crews a surprise in in Kentucky's race for Governor. Yesterday and Democrats got their wish in Virginia correspondent Bob Costantini reports account over the head by less than six thousand votes less than four four tenths of a percent. Ninety Bashir declared victory in Kentucky's governor race. It's a message that says our elections don't have to be about right versus there's left they are still about right versus wrong unofficial close win made incumbent Matt Bevin declined to concede president trump. It rallied for Bevin Monday night. Eighty Bashir's father. Steve Bashir was a governor who embraced obamacare in a red state expanding Medicaid. Part of Bevan's unpopularity was who's due to significant rollbacks of the program Democratic Party chairman. Tom Perez was in Louisville for the Bashir celebration. Emphasizing healthcare was a key issue. I worked very closely with Steve. When I was labor secretary he built one of the best healthcare exchanges in the country and in the category of if it ain't broke break breakaway Democrats will especially to Kentucky result is a measure of the nation's political temperature regarding president trump? Who held a rally early in Lexington Monday night? Republicans are likely to blame incumbent Matt Bevin as a flawed candidate trump campaign statement declared. The president dragged Bevan over the finish line to a better than expected showing. We are not conceding this race by any stretch but Kentucky's attorney general. Anybody here is a Democrat. Apparently headed to the governor's mansion but my expectation is that he will honor the election that was held tonight then he will help us make. This transition led by booming. More blue leaning suburbs. burbs Virginia has gone all democrats. Both the Commonwealth's House of delegates and Senate have sworn to democratic control. All statewide offices are held by dams. Mississippi's governor's race. It was closer than expected and by closer we mean Republican Lieutenant Governor Tate Reeves beat State Attorney General. Jim Hood by less than ten percent and Mississippi is that read up Costantini Washington an American diplomat close to president. Trump has updated his testimony in the house impeachment investigation as a result of what he's calling refreshed. Memory correspondent Linda. Kenyon has the story the US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sunland has elevated his role in the impeachment pro by revising his earlier testimony saying he now believes there was a quid. Pro Quo. More specifically says President Trump withheld US military ag Ukraine in an effort to secure investigations into the two thousand sixteen election and the president's political adversaries. Sunland also testified that he now remembers. I delivering that quid. Pro Quo message to an age. Ukrainian President Cube using the word quid pro quo. But the accurate word here is bribery and extortion representative John. Gary Mundane a member of the House Armed Services Committee says when Sunlen. I testified to house investigators on October seventeenth. He denied knowing of a quid. Pro Quo for military aid to the Ukraine but he submitted a letter Monday revising his testimony saying his memory had been refreshed very simple perjury. He was headed towards a perjury charge edge and probable conviction. Andy his career in jail. Someone's revised testimony came shortly before the transcripts from his deposition were released to the public. Also released was the deposition of former special envoy to Ukraine. Kurt Volker Volcker said President. Trump's lawyer rudy. Giuliani was at the president's direction. Pushing hard for the Ukrainian president to issue a statement that Ukraine would investigate Democrats in the two thousand sixteen presidential election and the Biden family family with Joe Biden being a political rival in the upcoming presidential election. The deposition shows Volker did not think it was proper to pressure a foreign government to investigate agape US citizens for political reasons. Senator Bob Menendez agrees Redo not condition aid for political purposes. The ranking Democrat macron on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee ads. The president had no right to hold up that aid after it was approved by Congress. The president abused his power and was willing willing to extort the Ukrainian president to the tune of nearly four hundred million dollars or does the aid of the United States had voted for in the congress in a bipartisan way to give give Ukraine to do what to defend itself against Russia. Linda Kenyon Washington the investigation continues into the brutal murder of nine members of an American family including including two babies in northern Mexico reportedly by members of a drug cartel correspondent Jim rupe reports. It's unclear why this is really unthinkable. Utah well senator. Mitt Romney talking about the three women and six children killed Sunday in the Mexican state of Nora across the Arizona border the group all members of the same family and of a fundamentalist medalist sect of the Church of Jesus. Christ latter-day Saints. Were writing in three cars. When they were stopped by a group of heavily armed men they were shot then their bullet ridden cars set on fire? Liar nine of the seventeen cars perished including twins six month old babies and four other children other kids in the group's five but were wounded. President Trump tweeted that a war or must be waged against the drug cartels in Mexico and pledged support and help to Mexico to do it tweeting that the cartels have gotten too big and too powerful and it will take an army eight to defeat an army. Romney agree he says Mexico has to really Knuckle down and go after some of these cartels and and stop this this escalating level of violence escalating being. It is Mexico's Department of Security and citizen protection beefed up security in the area including the National Guard because of quote disappearance and aggression toward several people. End Quote. Mexico's president thanked but declined president. Trump's offer for military help saying it's up to Mexico to deal with the incident. Jim Roope Los Angeles and this late late word criminal investigators in northern Mexico. Now say a suspect has been arrested in is under investigation in connection with a slaughter. The MOMA State Agency for Criminal Investigation says the suspect was founded a town at the border with Arizona. Holding two hostages gagged and tied inside a vehicle. The man arrested in connection with the mass shooting. That left two people dead at Texas am Commerce Homecoming Party in. Greenville was arrested in his now. Released correspondent Clayton Neville says the Hunt County howdy sheriff's Office didn't have enough evidence to hold the man that they had assured citizens was the quote right guy. Brandon Reagan's has maintained his innocence since his arrest friends and family of pushed for his release which came after nine days in custody. Gonzales Attorney Andrew. Wilkerson says the thirties rushed to make an arrest in the high profile case. I I think that the sheriff's office dot that they signed the community within arrests after his release Gonzales shared a letter he wrote in jail said Lord. I know you've put me too many tests and obstacles in my life and I have have overcame not so I do the same with this test. No other arrests have been made in the shooting. Clayton Neville Dallas. At and T. has been fined sixty million dollars misleading customers demerge about it's unlimited data plans correspondent. Joe Ramsey has that it settles the Government's allegation that it misled customers of unlimited data plans by slowing down service for heavy users. The Federal Trade Commission says that. At and T.. Will automatically provide partial refunds to customers. Who signed up for unlimited wireless plans before twenty eleven the FTC at and T.? In two thousand fourteen for not clearly letting customers know that they use a certain amount of data. The company would slow their speed so much. Their web browsing was almost impossible. It said that. At and T.. Had throttled at least three point point five million customers today. The company's website says

president President Trump Steve Bashir Kentucky Mexico Matt Bevin Ukraine US Virginia Linda Kenyon Washington Trump Mississippi Mitt Romney Washington Westwood Lieutenant Governor Tate Reeve Congress Attorney Daily News Arizona
Appeals Court hears arguments to repeal Obamacare; Health coverage for millions of Americans at stake, Democrats call for resignation of Acosta amid outrage over his role in Epstein's non-prosecution deal

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer

39:04 min | 2 years ago

Appeals Court hears arguments to repeal Obamacare; Health coverage for millions of Americans at stake, Democrats call for resignation of Acosta amid outrage over his role in Epstein's non-prosecution deal

"Wc thrill ride that will change forever some sundays nine pm on cnn tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses visit xeni today at xeni dot com slash cnn happening now standing by him president trump defends labor secretary alex wisconsin is under fire overseeing a secret deal you after turning a decade ago that deal dave multimillionaire jeffrey epstein lenient sentence for sex charges we see now facing new charges and that's continuing joe biden is the latest top democrat to demand that acosta resigned healthcare hearing an appeals court wraps up a major hearing on the future of obama care two out of three judges raise serious doubts about the very foundation of the law could their ultimate decision caused millions of americans still lose healthcare coverage subpoena dumped the house judiciary committee boxer ray good brand number of current and former trump aide preparing subpoenas residential son in law jared kushner former attorney general jeff sessions had other will they fly as unleashing the uk resident trump attacks britain's ambassador to the united states calling him a very stupid guy after leak diplomatic communiques revealed critical remarks by bath fitter and now britain's foreign secretary jumps them calling the president's been back unacceptable adderall i'm wolf blitzer you're in the situation room he's cnn breaking news breaking news a federal appeals court wraps up a hearing on the trump administration back challenge to obama care and two of the three judges suggests they may favor striking down be entire healthcare law that could be millions of americans could lose coverage also tonight president trump is defending labor secretary alex as our says he's facing demands that he step down a constant attorney a decade ago when he cut his secret plea deal from multimillionaire jeffrey epstein who face sex charges and now with epstein facing new charges for allegedly running a sex trafficking networks and abusing underage girls presidential candidate joe biden becomes the latest top democrats demanded a cost to resign president trump says the cost of doing a great fantastic job but says the matter must be looked at closely speaker democratic presidential candidate senator amy klobuchar along with congressman john gary mandy correspondence of analysts full coverage of today's top stories let's begin with our chief white house correspondent jim acosta jim member of the trump cabinet is under fire right now first controversial actions in a previous job what's really he certainly is will president trump is stepping up to the fed is labor secretary who is facing calls to resign over his handling of the jeffrey epstein case resident says secretary alex acosta is doing a fantastic job mr trump also tried to distance himself from epstein in the oval office earlier today after once describing him as a terrific guy like him very much tonight president trump appears to be standing by his battle labor secretary alex costa at least for now i can tell you that for two and a half years he's been just an excellent secretary of labor he's done a fantastic job lower resident appeared to diminish their cost his role as a federal prosecutor and a two thousand eight plea agreement multimillionaire jeffrey epstein was facing new charges of running a child sex ring in florida that includes accusations of abusing teenage girls i do hear that there were a lot of people involved in that decision not just him i can only say this from what i know a and what i do know is that he's been a great really great secretary of labor the rest of it will have to look at laughter look at it very carefully the president also downplayed his own relationship with well i knew him like everybody in palm beach no among people in palm beach knew him he was eight fixture in palm beach a i had a falling out with them a long time ago i don't think i've spoken to in fifteen years i wasn't a fan so a i feel very badly actually for secretary acosta because i've known him as being somebody that works so hard and has done such a good job i feel very badly about that whole situation but that's not the whole story back in two thousand two the president told new york magazine i've known jeffer fifteen years terrific guy he's a lot of fun to be what it is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as i do and many of them are on the younger side no doubt about it jeffrey enjoys his social life democrats democrats are accusing the secretary of shielding obscene firm a tougher sentence i am calling on secretary acosta to resign it is now impossible for anyone have confidence in secretary acosta's ability to leave the department of labor if he refuses to resign president trump should fire him try staff secretary accosted tweeted his own defense saying the crimes committed by epstein are horrific and i am pleased at new york prosecutors are moving forward with a case based on new evidence republicans say they're awaiting more information there's nothing new there we didn't know before he was confirmed by the senate as to secretary acosta's continuous service serves at the pleasure of the president and i'm trying to defer to the frozen to make that decision the president is continuing to lash out at britain's ambassador ws kim derek overs recently exposed sharp criticism of mr trump who is still railing against prime minister theresa may's handling of brexit the president tweeted the wacky ambassador that the uk foisted upon united states is not someone we're thrilled with a very stupid guy i told theresa may had to do that deal but she went her own foolish way was unable to get it done disaster think people have meddling is turned out you this right now even those controversies regarding secretary costa end the british ambassador crucial debate played out on an appeals court of appeals court earlier in the day over the future of obama care the republican appointed judges on that appeals court suggested that obama care which protects people with preexisting conditions may no longer be constitutional after president trump angie opiate lawmakers stripped out the individual mandate from that law all of that means another critical obama care case could be heading back to the supreme court just in time for the twenty twenty election wolf that could be rather explosives i jim acosta and that the white house thank you the house judiciary committee meanwhile is planning to launch a wave of subpoenas her current and former trump administration officials let's go live to her congressional correspondent phil mattingly on capitol hill ville whether you're learning a wolf house democrats are laying the groundwork to escalate investigations on two fronts first immigration policy the house judiciary committee will vote on thursday to allow first subpoenas related to the trump administration's border policies including the very controversial a very problematic and democratic guys out and sit family separation policy they're asking andy giving me authority to the chairman jerry nadler to subpoena documents an witness testimony related internal deliberations at the house that policy came to be and what the president's role anna's top administration officials role were in the formulation of that policy the second issue is on the long running judiciary committee investigation into potential obstruction by president trump now you'll remember wolf the beginning of this congress house judiciary committee requested documents from eighty one individuals related to that investigation of sent out a handful of subpoenas now they will authorize at least subpoenas on at least twelve more former trump administration officials for people in the trump orbit that will include so the first time someone in the family orbit of precedent trump jared kushner resident trump's son in law as well as former chief of staff john kelly former attorney general jeff sessions and others what's also notable here wolf is they will also be targeting potential subpoenas for people who were not in the white house including american media inc chairman david pecker corey lewandowski the former trump campaign chair a campaign manager why that's important is this the white house there's obviously been very firm and not allowing anything that might run into executive privilege allows during testimony be allowed to be turned over to the committee those individuals never served in the white house that may open the door to democrats actually getting some of the information that up to this point they have been stonewalled on again it is up to the committee chairman jerry nadler in terms of when he will actually issue those subpoenas but on thursday house democrats will certainly laid the groundwork for that to occur and again it's an escalation on two more fun and miri out of investigations going on on capitol hill immigration an obstruction the judiciary committee is targeting both again on thursday will clear escalation though you're absolutely right phil mattingly on capitol hill thank you for joining us now democratic congressman john gary mandy of california he's a member of the house armed services committee congressman thanks for coming in today here on leah alex a cost of the labor secretary do you believe he should resign because of what he did or didn't do more than a decade ago when he was us attorney in south florida never should have been appointed he had a bad wreck could even before he was confirmed we knew much of this now we know more he ought to be fired what if he doesn't resign at what if the president decides not to fire up let's stay on the job what happens now i think there's grounds for impeachment he condemned piece along with any other federal employee it's happened before that very often but here's where i could just terrible what he did in that case a is unconscionable and why did he do it that question has been answered but it'd be great to have the answer why did they allow this guy to get away with what is just a horrible crime there were what i think a lot of eight a democratic senators voted to confirm him as secretary of labor variety you think they did a major blunder they made a mistake you never should have been nominated in first place never should have been confirmed there were enough information to really question of what was going on any adds to a very very long list of corrupted and the incompetent individuals in the president's cabinet during his confirmation hearings and democrats and republicans could ask any questions is they want it only one senator democrat tim kaine of virginia ask any questions at all about jeffrey epstein in the case of that a that a acosta handled more than a decade ago every center where where where was the vetting on the part of the usa obviously it wasn't good enough obviously there are senators you're gonna have the answer that question as a member of the house representatives not the answer it it's but those senators dancer democrat and republican alike but i just wanna be precise if the president doesn't fire on that and if he doesn't resign you want the house of representatives the launch impeachment proceedings against the costa i think there's grounds for that yes so he answer is yes all right let's move on to talk about another a growing rift right now that has developed in the president united states in v united kingdom over those late diplomatic cables sent by the british ambassador to the united states the president's a says in those cables basser says the trump administration was clumsy and in up the president's this morning he responded the best there is a very stupid guy a pop this for a and he went he called him a wacky at what point what is urinalysis this this this this going well the president's always had trouble with the truth saying the truth himself and when the truth is told he doesn't like the fact of the matter is he a bastard did exactly what the ambassador supposed to do he's supposed they give honest evaluation forthright evaluation to his superiors in the foreign office in london any did the fact that those memos honest as they are correct as they are i were leaked well that's an embarrassment to the precedent not to the foreign office and not to the embassador who did what you're supposed to embassador kim derek how he's been in washington number three and a half years or so almost four years he's very well known in washington i dunno if you know about have you met him i have met him i don't know well but i've met him in their various of opportunities that occurred here would you call him very stupid at a pompous full is none of those things the president yes because because he's very well known in washington very well plugged in and you gotta any diplomatic receptions dinners or events at the british embassy here in washington up on massachusetts avenue not only the third democrats the republicans but very often their representatives from the white house and the trump administration were more than happy to attend but as i said a moment ago the president has a problem with the truth he cannot speak the truth himself and you cannot handle anybody that speaks the truth to him that's a well known fact andy embassador spoke the truth this administration's incompetent this administration is in chaos this administration has all kinds of troubles an ambassador simply told the foreign office in london the truth so how do you repair the strain that has developed a in usa british relations right now changed the prime minister changed the precedent is is being changed correct in the united kingdom the president's he's still got a while to go in and you know there's a very strong possibility he could get reelected will make sure that doesn't happen this man cannot leave this nation any longer here's totally destroyed are a diplomatic relations around the world he's taken on our allies he's taken on nato and he's done his darndest to really destroy those relationships those critical allies and just cannot disrespect are allies over and over again and expect to be able to accomplish anything in this world but that's what the president has done and it's time for him to leave the election is probably the way in which that will happen so you you don't see a serious the impeachment process beginning for the president's in this first term we don't know there are a lot of smoke smoke everywhere mostly every coming out of his family coming from every which direction is there a fire beneath it there's evidence sat there is this that lead to impeachment who knows what's gonna happen in the next couple of months but it is a growing conflagration going on with this administration may very well happen but at the moment when not there but even if he's impeached in the house of representatives of the two votes in the senate convicted actually remove him from office so he's gonna run for reelection probably show but then we don't know do it without richard nixon is gonna run for reelection didn't happen why because it turns out there was a raging fire fire in the administration my guess is there's a raging fire in this administration will this president's survived that impeachment not likely who who among all the twenty three twenty four democratic presidential candidates who is best from your perspective perspective right now congressman sullied that fight against the frozen mean the fight for impeachment don't know if they'll they'll fight to get elected president of the united states in defeat donald trump in november of twenty twenty at the moment is the leader in the polls mr biden so you that is not someone you're supporting i am not yet supporting one or another but he clearly asli he clearly has been experience aunt at the moment his best position what do you think of out of the house judiciary committee going had a and a subpoena maybe about a dozen or so current and former trump administration officials you could see the names over there a they they wanna come over and testify what is that all about it's all about this administration stonewalling and totally ignoring the constitutional authority that they house of representatives and the senate has oversee an to have oversight over the administration they're stonewalling not only within the white house but now within most every one of the departments that is simply wrong that is not the way this nation were set up gration of succeeding in that stonewalling of at least for now one more reason the precedent it has to go this is constitutional democracy this is not another talk crecy this is not a nation run by a single person who's going demanded it'd be his way even now he's disrespecting the supreme court shows are democracy are under way of governing here is at risk given z forward they are taught to be authority and the way in which the president president wants to literally set himself up as king congressman thanks for coming in thank you up next top democrats are demanding the resignation of labor secretary alex acosta who has a u us attorney oversaw sleazy over alleged sexual predator multimillionaire jeffrey epstein more than a decade ago i speak with presidential candidate amy klobuchar char that's not remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash cnn in the wake of the latest sex trafficking charges against the wealthy businessmen jeffrey epstein prominent democrats are calling for the resignation of the labor secretary alex acosta who was a federal prosecutor negotiated a very lenient cdot with epstein back in two thousand eight one of those democrats senator and presidential candidate amy klobuchar charles joining us right now senator thanks so much for joining us while she released a statement earlier today calling us secretary accosted resigned in light of these arrest but the details on cost us involvement in this plea deal they were revealed by the miami herald basically part of the journalistic investigation it was all publish late last year why did you and so many others wafer to arrest this week before decided to push for his resignation you know i didn't vote for sex are costa debate again west so i think that was part of it a number of us had opposed him from the very beginning is this being one of the reasons says you know senator kaine had asked him about this at the hearing but i think there's been many new developments even since that hearing of the first thing was they federal district court came out and said that that agreement that he'd made west epsteins lawyer a that violated the law i know as a former prosecutor that you consult with victims sometimes you have plea agreement but the law both state and federal i'd say that you need to consult with victims of that didn't happen in this case so that was a violation and the other thing that's happened was just the gruesome details in the gory details but we all learned yesterday where they actually still found photos according to news reports of young women and when we step back and look at this well we jury member through all of the political discussions about this these were young girls these were fourteen year old these are prostitutes caesar actually victims their victims of sex trafficking ring he was trying to get some epstein scene was to get others and that's why a major concern over the labor secretary who had some jurisdiction over human trafficking i would be involved in making a deal like this at least four dollars looks like president trump is sticking with secretary across the president's saying junior great great job is labor secretary if the president refuses to fire him if acosta refuses to resign what should lawmakers do not well there's several alternate as a we could they have a hearing and forced him to come subpoena him to come i would hope that see i would hope the judiciary committee would do that in the senate and not just the democratic committee in the house but i would hope we would have a hearing if he would refused to leave and then you go from there as you get more evidence there's also of course in investigation going on of of of looking at they ethical background here and if there was a violation of justice department rules you mentioned the judiciary committee the senate judiciary committee chairman lindsey graham says he wants to wait until the justice department issues a full scale report on a cost us handling of the case before he makes a decision i think if you disagree with senator gram i do simply because they evidence here is clear out of a federal district court already 'em as well is what we've seen from they indictments in the last few days but again i would hope the center grand would have such a caring if it goes up far if he's still in place and we get the investigation but i think he could do it before we complete investigation you trust the justice department to investigate this plea deal gonna cost to help the goshi eight were jeffrey epstein a decade or so ago and not completely i just hope they would have career people looking at this they have a reason to wanna uphold the highest standards of the justice department given that it is usa attorney that work through this justice department of course here out of new york state that actually brought these charges these are federal charges and so you know the hope is the justice department on does the right thing but given what we've seen with attorney general bar even this week where he's backpedaling on a director muller's need to testify 'em we never know what they're going to cause a bar attorney general bill bar he suggested yesterday at least he would recuse himself from part of this jeffrey epstein case because the law firm they used to work for was involved here no direct involvement but the law formerly worked for one point before becoming attorney journal was involved shooting he recused himself from all aspects of this 'em yes i think that he should given his involvement in that he other law firm had represented him in the past but my point was a bigger one is that you have a justice department that's often done things that i think are inconsistent with the law including a how they handled the muller report it's not just far of you're democratic colleagues in the senate the voting to confirm a dollar cost of labor secretary for the most part they're standing by their decision at least for now what's your message to you're democratic colleagues who still support secretary across i think this is a matter of timing i i think that some people would allow this investigation and then others just believe it's very clear what went on here and the secret deal made behind closed doors for me as someone who i was one of the leaders on the human trafficking legislation as a former prosecutor prosecutor i just think these kinds of deals have gone on for too long were victims don't know about it where you think of the victims don't matter because they're fourteen year old but no one's ever gonna meet well now the whole country is meeting these victims are very quickly if but he doesn't resign if he's not fired should the house judiciary committee the house of representatives begin impeachment procedures against the labor secretary and that is something that's gonna be up to speaker pelosi in the house and you've seen them i'd take actions and before when it comes to the subpoenas they pushed i have director muller testify they got that and so that's something that could consider about i hope right now that he does the right thing step so senator klobuchar thanks so much for joining us it was great to be on well thank you still ahead an australian speaking speaking out after he was detained by north korea accused of being a spy then abruptly for eight bringing out the right sheets can take your sleep and style to the next level with boll and branch upgrade has never been more affordable every set is crafted from one hundred percent organic cotton they get softer and softer over time that's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three us presidents have boll and branch sheets try them for thirty nights and if you don't love them send them back for a full refund go to bollandbranch dot com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets plus free shipping with promo code cnn to spelled b o l l andbranch dot com that's bollandbranch dot com promo code cnn to just a short while ago a former vice president joe biden joining the list of prominent democrats calling for the resignation of alex the cost of the labor secretary back in two thousand eight cost it was a federal prosecutor he negotiating aleni asleep dealer with sex offender jeffrey epstein enough places do sex trafficking charges involving teenage girls let's ask her political and legal experts first the discuss this and more and gloria borger in the oval office today the president tried to distance himself from a upstream despite his past praised many many years ago for him he also defended alex the cost of listen to this i feel very badly actually for secretary acosta because i've known him as being somebody that works so hard and has done such a good job i feel very badly about that whole situation what do you make of the president's comments well he didn't come out and say i feel very badly about the whole situation an i don't want him to go anywhere an i think he should remain in my cabinet he did not do that what he said was i kind of feel bad for the guy an distancing himself from epstein is no surprise they always distances himself from people who are in trouble he did it with paul manafort he did it with michael cohen and the list goes the list goes on and on so i think it was kind of a half hearted endorsement of a costa but not up a full one yeah those numbers were those were i think that when we hear president trump say i feel badly for him in a and then you hear kellyanne conway the counselor to the president say resident trump only met alex costa two and a half years ago for the very first time it seems just strike a strike me ear as the president's doesn't know exactly where he's gonna go with this so he's gonna keep a safe distance for now and i think that's where they are white house aides believe that this is going to be president trump called once he he gets a feel for where the media narrative is about alex the cost and he seemed to give credence to the idea that this will bad for him my feeling he said i feel bad for him he thinks this is a bad scandal for alex costa even as he tried to diminish the seriousness of it by saying oh it was fifteen years ago twenty years ago nother those things are true it was eleven years ago and i and i think that the seriousness of what accosted did is pretty well known that the plea deal with something that is being widely criticised so you know president trump those things at the same time partly because he's china by tied in france i think outlets to a lot of these details that were contained in you as attorney for the southern district of new york and the charges filed against the cost of yesterday they were known late last year thanks to the miami herald investigative reporter yeah so there's a lot of hypocrisy going around here right i mean this was litigated to a certain extent during his his hearings but the fact that there are new federal charges has just brought everything back a lot of the the the uglier details are in some of the details are new firm what the from the from the raid on his his home so you know it's not just trump it's democrats to who decided to you know knowing a lot of these details who'd eight democrats in the senate and a who voted to make that confirmation to to confirm him so they're gonna have to answer questions is well trump and they certainly will end review us attorney in the southern district of new york says in a slight it somebody investigative reporting by the miami herald in these charges in this indictment against epstein up it's would tell me if it's unusual though that the corruption unit in the southern district of new york the public corruption unit is handling this as opposed to a sex crimes you also is unusual see the public corruption unit involves a federal officials have warned people not reading too much into it we don't yet have explanation the public corruption unit investigates allegations against a public officials elected officials were allegations of official misconduct upstream is not appropriate she's on a public official so one possibility and were speculating is there might be an unindicted co conspirator that falls in that category we also know because there are questions about the nature of this plea deal by alex acosta when he was a federal prosecutor if the southern district of new york with looking into allegations were leaders in the handling of that agreement that might be something that would fall within a sort of unity jurisdiction and you know at this point it's it's it's at the white house and doesn't know know what the southern district has or what they're looking into or who they're looking into so they they have no choice right now but it's kinda hold back an end see how this plays out a little bit unless the president's not happy with him anyway i could just say right sorry and that's kind of maybe the x factor here is that there's not a sense at all costs have a ton of support in the white house people who are bolstering him in the face of all of this so if the coverage turn south it could get really bad for him pretty quickly quickly and the white house has been getting lip service to some kind of review of a costa's behavior there's not really much evidence that that's happening what is being reviewed as president trump is watching the news coverage and he's trying to make sure that this is something that is worth weathering for him i suspect you're bunch of nervous people out there were worried about additional indictments coming down the road everybody's standby lots more right after this hi everyone it's poppy harlow in this week's episode of boss filed an exclusive interview with google ceo sundar pichai his remarkable story growing up in india with little access to technology the landing the top jobs at google the job he never raised his hand for the first time google response to news of a possible antitrust investigation of the company and lawmakers calls to break up big tech button his pledge to do more to curb the spread of misinformation and hate on you to we sat down with him at google datta center in prior oklahoma where the company is adding hundreds of jobs as it invests across the midwest subscribed abbas files today and listen to our exclusive interview with google ceo sundar pichai the doctor that politically legal experts we got some breaking news and susan let me get your reaction a federal judge in new york has just said the justice department cannot repeat cannot swap out his legal team in the census citizenship question case the judge writing the defendants provide no reasons let alone feathers factory reasons for the substitution of council potentially significant development it's been significantly saw deal jay making this very around move attempting to sort of completely changed their their legal team last minute they ac l u which litigating against them objected and said no under the rules you have to provide an actual reason for changing council and that's exactly what this judge is saying now the interesting thing will be a deal jay now goes back and attempt offered justification one of those sort of speculations was the reason why they had just switch legal teams was because the career prosecutors said we don't believe you legally defensible strategy moving forward on were not willing to litigate this anymore now if they do submit that reason it will have to be near you can't lie to the court and so if they decide to move forward and make this change change were gonna see the real reason for it i mean it could also be the these lawyers who made this argument before the court cannot go back and say never mind us roberts already sent their argument with contrived but they can't go back and say what i told you about the deadline and everything is not true how could how could you had including the fact that by by insisting on pushing this forward despite the fact that the other members of his administration did not want to yeah now president trump is really harming institutional credibility of two there were public statements abby by me attorney general of the united states bill bar by the commerce secretary wilbur ross wilbur ross the wilbur ross they made public statements the day before saying they were accepting the supreme court decision and we're not going to include on the cross studio the circus course should there be a question about citizenship right and the change in strategy was entirely because president trump decided she wanted that question put on there and so it's actually left the justice department trying come up with a legally justified justifiable strategy in order to get the question on there and those lawyers who now before we go back onto this case had to go to a judge the very next day and say we really don't know what's going on here we're gonna try to find out as quickly as we can but apparently were moving forward with adding the citizenship question it's just put everyone in a really difficult position here and i think the as they go forward they're gonna even a struggle to provide that reasoning to the lawyers which is basically they change their mind entirely because of the wins have another setback at least for now for the president really wants the citizenship question ask this part of this when he's when he starts his standby rid of a lot more on this all the breaking news right after this with an australian suzy freed from north korean custody is hardly denying claims he was engaged in espionage brian todd has been looking into this for some wind will tonight that young man alex ugliest calling situation sad saying he was only a student in north korea not a spy a key questions and i did the fatal case of american student otto warmbier spoke the north koreans into letting young australian go alex sigli was in the grip of kim jong loons regime detained for about a week then deported at accused of being a spy tonight the twenty nine year old australian student denies the accusation tweeting that the charge is quote pretty obviously false alex single is very lucky to have come out on harmed and alive sigli had been a student debt pyongyang's kim il some university studying literature he ran a tour company mp on yeah he was a racist blogger posting pictures of his experience seeing sites in visiting restaurants in north korea and he wrote six columns about food and fashioned for the publication in k news which the regime cited alex sigli was spared the final outcome of otto warmbier the american student convicted victims of stealing a propaganda signed from a hotel in pyongyang warmbier was put on trial detained for year and a half and ended up in a vegetative state of course the last thing perhaps the regime's once on the car circumstances is another tragedy on par with what happened to otto warmbier another otto warmbier case could deal a deadly blow to the regime's at tends to sanitize its own image envy eyes of international public opinion resident trump said kim jong hoon told him he felt very bad about the warmbier he tells me that he didn't know about it and i will take him at his word another possible difference between the warmbier and sigli cases experts say sickly spying charges actually less serious in the highs of kim's regime then what warmbier was accused of doing auto was accused of having committed the ultimate crime enough runs to the very honor and dignity of the supreme indian leader he attempted to take away just steal a poster allegedly inscribed with the words of the great envy elite that's worse than spy absolutely will that is water since fine warriors parents have kept his case in the headline by trying to collect on a five hundred million dollar judgment against against north korea for their son's death their target north korea second largest ship the wise honest now in usa custody on allegations of evading sanctions the warriors have filed a claim on the vessel analysts say it's possible but why is honest this could be awarded to the warm beers them sold for the only such a fraction of that five hundred million dollars will kim jong hoon ever pay a price would really hurt her auto warmbier step it's hard to see how there will be any major financial payout they would agree or becomes held today in the future i think the most likely scenario that will occur is north korea's price the price we pay it will be reputation all animals by filing this claim on the cargo ship whether they win any money or not what the warriors could also be after here is to send a message a message to people like alex similarly to people like their own son but whatever romantic ideas they have about visiting north korea whatever diplomatic overture is going on right now but this regime is still very very dangerous to deal with both are brian thank you brian todd reporting coming up we'll have more on the breaking news a federal judge in new york has just ruled the justice department here in washington chance which is legal team in the court fight adding a citizenship question on next year's view west sensors are you interested in learning how great companies grow download the mark tech podcast amar tech podcast cast tells the stories of real world marketers who use technology to generate growth and achieve business in career success from advertising to software service to data getting brands authentically integrated the content performs better than tv advertising typical life span of an article about twenty four to thirty six hours before reaching out the right person the right message in a clear call an action that it's just a matter of timing ready to learn the secrets of technology driven marketing download the martin tech podcast just search martin m a r t e c h wherever you download your podcasts are you interested in learning how enterprise scale companies drive organic traffic to increase their online visibility than download the voices of search podcast from the heart of silicon valley here search metrics inc ceo jordan kuni as he delivers actionable insights howdy data to navigate the ever changing landscape of google apple amazon the voices of search podcast arm search engine marketers and business analysts with the latest news and insights they need to nephew ever changing landscape of search engine optimization

labor britain uk attorney jared kushner house judiciary committee obama joe biden jeffrey epstein dave cnn cnn wolf blitzer adderall president secretary united states jeff sessions acosta
362: Super Naturalists Edition

The Scathing Atheist

1:00:00 hr | 1 year ago

362: Super Naturalists Edition

"Warning this episode would make elmo fate. This week's episode of the scathing atheist is brought to you by the infant coffin for the antitax parent on the go told you so's told you so's maybe you should have googled and now the skating atheist my name is Natalie and I live in Lincoln get Nebraska home of the devil hands if my degree in the policy taught me anything. It's that one. He can't get a job in anthropology and two we we did. In fact you fall from filthy monkey men. It's Thursday Edge January twenty third and it's measure your feet day so so Go ahead and take Quentin Tarantino up on that offer. I guess as well. Hey I'm no illusions Me La Bosnich He then right and and from measles friendly New Jersey. Got Dan Georgia. This is the scaling atheist. This week's episode trump is ready to make America pray again coach. Dave wants the Duchess of Sussex to Meg's it through a separate door and it'll turn out that Australia was just on fire fire for Jesus this whole time but I the diatribe. When it was in my twenties I had a job for a while as a fry? Fry Cook at Applebee's and the job fucking sucked but the boss was pretty cool. I worked the morning shift and if we got all our prep work done before the restaurant opened he would look the the other way up. The kitchen crew went out back and smoke a couple joints before the ones rush started. He was pretty cool but not noticing it. If we maybe took a meal home at the end of our shifts once in a while but Dan this dude named Jack started working there and he fucked it up for everybody right he he would like make it look like as prep work was done and then spend an an hour outside smoking blunts. He'd take home a lunged at consistent twenty-seven chicken strips in four orders of fries and we kept telling him he was going to ruin his ship for all of us. But the asshole wouldn't listen and pretty soon. We had a cook Tequila Lime chicken sober all damn afternoon and I only mention this because having been privy to those failed interventions with Jack back I recognize and appreciate the tone of recent warning from ministry watch about the disturbing trend of evangelical charity organizations pretending to be churches for the purposes of Taxation Nation underneath. It's thin veil of solicitude and moral apprehension or the unmistakable tones of don't fuck this up for the rest of us so the piece I'm talking about here is an op Ed by Warren Cole. Smith the head of Ministry Watch titled Win at Church is not a church and basically it highlights. The increasing number of institutions is that we're nonprofits for the purposes of taxation a few years ago and suddenly big game churches under trump's watch the main difference between those two designations of course is the annual form. Ninety it's basically a tax return a nonprofit organization that's publicly available it forces nonprofits to declare their income and their expenses including a breakdown of their administrative appease and their salaries. But if you're designated as a church rather than a nonprofit you don't have to file that shit or anything like it you know and and if you WanNa beat charitable and give Ministry watch the benefit of the doubt you can commend this piece for bringing this problem to the fore in such a way that it would end up getting discussed in the New York Times and the Washington Post. But if you're less lenient in your interpretation you might notice the way it tries to hijack the conversation really sure it points out the problem but this is a problem. That's been pointed pointed out before it also arms the offenders with plenty of bullshit plausible deniability for example it tries to heap a little blame on secular groups who have publicized is the charitable donations of prominent people to their own detriment rate like I think about founded Mozilla then got pushed out when his donations to proposition eight came to light and and in Smith's view that's a quote despicable practice engaged in by unscrupulous bullies. You know 'cause how dare people publicly associate you with your self and citing this. Excuse he points out that many of these groups are probably changed their designation so that they can you know. Keep their bigotry. Funded privately privately. So it's our. It is bad as that excuses. It's not even control. The IRS has already been over backwards to make sure big at groups can keep their donors. Names private he also needs to justify the continued ability to churches to hide their own finances. One way or the other. And here's the best he can do quote. Churches have leadership and members who live the in community with each other. Almost all donors come from within that community whatever. Transparency and accountability are necessary will be provided by the rules and structures of the church. The government has no business interfering in churches internal affairs and quote and yes that is just a long series of non sequiturs followed by not not appoint followed by the exclamation of drunken sovereign citizen at a Dui checkpoint but it also ignores the fact that ten percent of the Church's account for fifty percent of the the church attendance. Because Chris can't even make up bad arguments without lying. But I'll be damned if both of those flimsy ass defenses weren't dutifully parroted in all the mainstream articles that I saw that referenced. This piece and talked about this problem. Right but the real impetus for all this shows up at the bottom of speed and surprise surprise. It's got nothing to do with his genuine concern. In from America's philanthropists is the fact that a mainstream candidate for president dared to broach the subject of making churches. Play by the same fucking rules as all the other other nonprofits and that has them terrified right so people like Warren Cole. Smith go out and bluster up in about. How very concerned that they are? That people are taking advantage of this otherwise very reasonable tax benefit as a smokescreen will never bothering to justify the damn thing in the first place. Look when Christians come out from any fucking wear and fight for this they know. Gooden fucking wealth primarily fighting for Jolo steen's mansion Cref flow dollars plane and John Gray's wife's car right. They're not even fighting to keep money. They get to keep the money either way. They're fighting for the right to lie about that money later. And there is no honest reason to fight for that. They're talking with special youth. Were within joining me for headlines Tonight or the blood sweat to my tears. Heat then right knee ally Bosnich fellas. Are you ready to excrete. What goes up? Noah must come down. Oh Wow okay do you also shit tears. I thought it was. It's just me. What make them tear house? It's a reference to a sweet blood sweat and tears song spinning wheel how nailing see. I thought you were throwing growing those things into the air. Okay I am Keats. In our own it was National Religious Freedom Freedom Day last week so donald trump celebrated by making a big announcement that he's making a new rule to protect the rights of every kid in to pray in school because he's an idiot and we already have that and Christian people got super excited because they're idiots and somehow they didn't know right yes at this point. He's promising them the inside of a pot in every pot hot and they're cheering wildly next. I'm going to give back the guns that Obama took right and just to be clear stories about Donald Trump so it's definitely worse than just benign signs to biddy. He didn't manage to hit that lofty goal of benign bid. And that's because the still allowed to pray directive was accompanied by some other rules and guidance. Memos that actually will have an effect and they're going to funnel government money into religion so bad stuff too obviously but all the Christian people had definitely stopped paying attention after that first part about the praying that they already had and started legally spite praying right in our atheist. Atheist faces big win for them. Yeah no we'll all be way fucked if one of them things you know using a prayer in schools to pray for more Prayers in schools. Yeah so so far again. School praying thing. It's giant pile of nothing but that didn't stop trump. I'm from inviting a bunch of Christian kids to the Oval Office for his weird theatrical like ribbon. Cutting Ceremony Moni to commemorate the nothing and kids were allegedly victims of. You know all the atheists teachers who walk around around school slapping bibles out of kids hands on their faces lasting Gitmo dump step atheism music to drown out there praying and torture and all that stuff so apparently for just the price of a cup of coffee a day. You can. A prayer starved Christian kid in America. America's Magin the as now they like they pick a fly officer white kids face and put it on a black kids face. There we go. Yeah yeah he might as well have invited Covington Catholic on the grounds that if you freeze halfway through a Tomahawk Chop you're basically praying. You gotta gotTa catch him on the downswing. You're being negative yeah. Christians are being persecuted by one native American guy at a parade rate right and of course. Don&#