25 Burst results for "Joe Weisenthal"
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Why Is This Happening? with Chris Hayes
"Is a the whole thing in a sense of like this allows you to have an asset. That is money like that could transfer in a way in which no one knows about it and that is to me like the core value proposition is why bitcoin is not good for buying coffee. It's why it's good for buying an airbnb and paris. Because it's a and airbnb in paris as expensive as to slow it's pointless. I promise solved what it does. Solve the problem of transactions. You know it's still are still issues with it. You might want to convert into dollars at some point. You have and dad the exchange Date the regulations on the exchanges. Let's say you had a million dollars or the bitcoin and you wanted to sell them for cash on site like coin base or something like that they have to comply with know. Your customer anti-money money laundering regulations. Like scan your passport so issues certainly arise. It's not completely trivial but anyone who sorta like totally denies that it can be used to efficiently. Do things outside. Is the law. A like kinda dishonest. Yeah i think just on this l- sort of last point here. The other point of this right is that like you. You just airtouch touch on points of points of contact where you could just jack up the regulation right so like if this becomes a problem either for tax evasion or or for money laundering like like quin be has an ipo. Now right so these. Things are all subject to american financial regulation and if someone says oh look. I got a ten million dollar. A bitcoin bounty and now i would like dollars. You can just regulate it to say like you got to notify everyone. And it's like right at the end of the trump administration and it didn't happen It hasn't gone through yet but right. At the end of the trump administration the us treasury did propose some new regulations with the aim of greatly. Clamping down on how much you can transfer easily to private wallet or something like that. Essentially moved off the exchange. The regulation never on through in the industry is like fighting at sort of unclear what the administration is going to do. But this is like my point. Which is that. I do think the industry the bitcoin world is a little bit naive about the ease with which the government could severely curtail the monetary usefulness of the network if it were so motivated joe weisenthal is an editor at bloomberg digital. He's co anchor of. Would you miss on bloomberg tv. And the lots podcast joe. That was fantastic. Thank you so much. Thanks.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Why Is This Happening? with Chris Hayes
"With say oil so i think that they're the the analogy really. Does as you say it works for bitcoin to. There's no easy way to get access. So technically the way works with the miners. The miners make money two different ways. But every ten minutes another batch of transactions is cleared. It's not you know. Think of the internet is weak. Superfast bitcoin is not a fast at all. Transactions are cleared every ten minutes more or less in these called blocks and The the entities that process the transactions are the miners and the way they process them is essentially by solving these arbitrarily large computer problems and in addition to processing the transactions. If you successfully mind block it gets a little complicated but is essentially a race. So let's say i have. I'm a minor on my computer in your mind or on your computer. Were actually racing to sue. Who solves the problem i And whoever wins the race for each blog also get some amount of bitcoin. I think right now. It's six and actually every for years. The amount of new bitcoins goes down. So you successfully solve the problem. I if you successfully mind the block you get some fees from the transactions and you get a called a block reward where you get a few bitcoins yourself and their district. New ones come into the world every ten minutes but this competition between me and you and actually like thousands of other miners all around the world this competition. We're all expending electricity in order to get get. The coins is what keeps the network running and what maintains the scarcity. Gotcha that actually is helpful. The miners are actually doing two things at once in this competition. Which which. I never actually understood before. Gotcha that actually is very helpful. So they're they're clearing the transaction right because they're they're unlocking their unlocking. They're solving the crypto puzzle. Which is usually factoring. Very large numbers as i understand it. Which is incredibly computational intensive and so they're solving the crypto problem and then that clear that has two roles which clears that ledger then says okay. We're putting this new transaction onto the ledger that the public ledger. And you've now created six new bitcoins or whatever. Six and a half. Who are these people. Who are the miners. The miners are all over the world. And there's some china there's some in texas there's some upstate new york. They're everywhere and they're basically people who have access to specialized computer chips and people who have access to reasonable cost electricity and some of it is probably very dirty in Say china some of it might be very clean energy like say some people have access to like if you're by hydroelectric dam or something like that and so people who have the combination of these specialized computer in some access to cheap electricity wherever it is can become a minor period. Okay so this. The first version of this is bitcoin. And it's actually invented by someone.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Messari's Unqualified Opinions
"So I know that you can get attacked from all sides in case something perfectly right and capture all the nuance and the argument. That I've made for for most people will complain about coverage of his pithy Eh. Specific asset specific project Is basically boils down to two things one. If I don't understand it or we don't understand that your fault right. I'm sorry And to directionally. You should be looking for insights. Yes not for precision but for directionally accurate coverage because you are never going to as a third party narrator have like the omniscience of like a storyteller like you'd read a novel like you're you're you're there is no such thing as the the omniscient narrator when you're talking about journalism but if they can get fifty percent or seventy five percent of the way there you look for signal in general narratives and trends verses the specific pieces Is that the right way to think about our. Or how do you describe the media narrative cycles Take place typically around booms or scandals. It's a it's a good question. I mean one thing that I want to. I think it's important to really defend on the media side. Which is that you know. It's hard to criticize journalists too much for say like not getting something when they're plenty of examples of believers not getting something even with respect to Crypto and I think a good example figures like twenty thirteen market andriessen row op. Ed and deal book about Bitcoin. It was totally wrong. I mean it was all about how it's going to be a pay payroll two point. Oh and news getting like lower fees than and this was like lower fees than visa. Now no one at least in the BTC world actioning seriously like makes the case that the selling point of Bitcoin is that it's GonNa be like this. Lo Fi alternative to visa people who still believe that have gone joined their own calls but but on the BTC. So I feel like how. Can anyone really like criticize a journalist for quote? Not Getting it. When here's someone who's like literally one of the foremost public early advocates of Bitcoin? And not just that had been there in the early days of the Internet went up when they made the arena today cameras. And you know it's fine like people get things wrong but really getting like at. Here's what is one of the preeminent advocates of it and with more about like the fundamental mechanisms of the Internet and essentially described as a vision. That turned out to not be at all where it was going. So if you have people who are like core movers and shakers in the space sort of like you know and we could go through all kinds of Prognostications of visions for what it was going to do the different beam cycles of the theory of Bitcoin. That didn't turn out to be right so hard her to like fall journalist too much when even the people inside often don't nor is going but you know. I think like there are still within in the media. I think like they're still like cycles of learning more about different aspects. I think after twenty seventeen. A lot of the interest was about the degree to which institutional investors Once it became a thing of substantial size how they would invest in it. What are the tool? Set up that allow them to or the roadblocks to those are areas that I think people in the space we're interested. The media quickly identified as important questions and again like you said it's not everything is one hundred percent but directionally. Dow is an area in which a lot of the coverage more or less I thought tracked a lot of the interest From the people in the Space Bloomberg out of financial media I'd argue the best brand for that niche of coverage. And you can have two or at least should Bloomberg terminal you know as a platform that is that is the engine of the business yet because this asset class. Oh Volatile Yeah. It feels often not just u As a a a company but all financial media is almost always a lagging indicator. Right showed so like crypto will get covered in the peak of two thousand thirteen. It'll get covered in the peak of two thousand seventeen and then all of a sudden fall off the cliff right. It's kind of like it's a running joke and perhaps it's not fair because most other industries if you see something growing exponentially it's not it's not going through these massive peaks and valleys at least from a market standpoint When you think about like venture funded companies is generally like stepwise functions up This really does feel unique to. How do you help? People derive signal from all the noise. Yeah knowing that you're probably covering the news at either it's best for its worst and ready over stating one direction of the other And and maybe it's even price down. Yeah I mean you know like I think it's not quite as bad as you make it sound with media being a lagging indicator man. I was just thinking the other day. I like the counter example. Well I mean just you know I mean. That is a natural. I of course news has to happen first. Then people write about the news but you know I was thinking that I think Bloomberg is had. I think we've had a bitcoin prices on the terminal since at least twenty twelve. You know someone could've said in two thousand twelve Bloomberg just added Bitcoin to the terminal has got to be the top right like that would have been. I'm sure people pry even thought that or said that at the Times like they just dove in and then of course you know went crazy over the next five years. So it's not entirely lagging in that respect of course No-one in the mainstream was thinking about it in a day. One but throw the things I mean. There are twenty two thousand seventeen instructive because okay. There was a lot more coverage of bitcoin in media overall on especially in the second half of that year. But you know I think there was also a lot of coverage of the fact that the bunch of coins flying to the moon at that time that had no that had nothing that had no real Had No real use no prospect for US could not possibly live up to the claims that the developers had done and I was like quite a bit of coverage there so I think like you know you think about signal from the noise. Nobody knows whether tomorrow or the next year next week. Or whatever. It's GONNA go up or down. Certainly I don't think that's the most journalists. Don't do that as their job but likes sort of being able to help a reader distinguish between bowl how bitcoin is completely different from something like ripple is completely different from something like X. Is totally something that journalists are capable of doing in real time and frequently do so like like just from a price implant there is going to be a lag and prices drop people's interest and also draws investor interest. I mean it's not just you know it's I'm sure like at the same time in late. Twenty seventeen when the mainstream media start doing way. More crypto stories. I'm sure Actual like people have money A. There's probably like a one to one relationship between the price. The number of stories and then investors like to be getting into the should I be doing an allocation so everything is kind of like. Let's say you need ten impressions purchase decision so and and it goes back to that concept of how many cycles have you every big tension and ignored plenty for journalists to advil. You took really like. What is this project? What is what is the difference between x and Y and so if something comes along and it's a bitcoin but faster. Transactions and lower fees journalists are completely capable of tackling something like that and it's really important And I think it's important for any investors perspective investors or people just interested in the space for good reporting on like what all this stuff made because otherwise someone logs into their coin. Based on. Bitcoin's it you know a ten thousand. Bitcoin cash is whatever five hundred so it's cheaper and it's more fees or lower fees. That's an area in which I think you know explaining what this is. All about. Journalists are totally capable. What is your take on? Libra and all these central bank digital currencies. Because it seems to me that this is going to be maybe the bigger area of coverage for the foreseeable future when From when it comes to like a mainstream media narrative Stan sure because a government the size of China or the. Us US thinking about digitizing their currency is a bigger story than one hundred billion dollar asset. That does not really govern. And you can't speak to the derailment quite as clearly. I mean. I think solicit with libra. My best analogy that. Have come up with to describe. Lee Libra is essentially Android which the operating system that. Google developed which is like. How do you have this? How can you create a operating system that anyone can use any device maker? Can Use in foul. Tv's cars whatever that saw an open source Operating System designed to be very multi-platform like that am really existed prior to android. What libra is attempting to do and the reason? I called analogy is the analogy. Is You know there's all these different payment vehicles around the world so it's like you know here in the US we might use squarer Van. Mo or pay pal or whatever in China. They made us all you pay or something like that. There's impace Is a popular platform and parts of Africa and so forth. And don't speak to each other like I can't if you're on Ali Pie and I'm using. We're not going to be able to transact it don't speak to each other. There's no real prospect of them speak to each other because they're different banking systems and different regulatory systems overall and that creates an issue with all kinds of transactions. So what I see is like sort of the goal with libra is well. How can we create a universal platform essentially to bypass the inherent restrictions placed payments systems with each country? And the problem is and why? I guess I'm probably pretty skeptical of it in the end. It's like these restrictions exist for regulatory reasons related to banking laws and all these different countries. And the only way Lieber would really work is if regulators all around. The world suddenly decided that they were going to relax their rules simply because a company facebook came along and wanted to do payments on the block on a block chain or something that resembled blockchain. I don't really see that happening. I don't see why essentially it would be like regulatory arbitrage. Yep like here. We're creating something we're like. We're GONNA call a CRYPTO or we're GONNA talk about some new blockchain technology and give spiel about Remittances and Financial Inclusion. And so please like lettuce. Just do payments that. You haven't really allowed anyone else to do cross-border way. I don't really see workout. So that analogy China's digital currency would be IOS. Exactly something like that and I and the US is windows. Whatever but what Ni- with these no coin but I I think so there's a couple of different question with these central bank digital currency questions is a. I get why they're talking about it. It's not clear to me if the people within central banks around the world who are talking about promoting it have a clear idea in their own head. Why what they're seeking to accomplish. I haven't really negative interest rates L. But it's actually like it's ubiquitous surveillance a cryptocurrency Ubiquitous surveillance might be a plausible explanation for China's goal Or just say have already reserve currency reach as part of the dull rhetorician. The there's many geopolitical exit already with banks exist. And it's you know for the most part. The question is like what I think of like. Okay Central Bank digital currency. How does that different from other money which is already like more or less digital?.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Messari's Unqualified Opinions
"Over the last ten years never won basically. Any School of thought is disappointed with the pace of recovery. Lynn almost entirely on central banks to do the job by cutting rates. Qe negative rates all kinds of experiments in Japan by ETF. It doesn't do anything. That's like the crazy people. People put these charts of government balance sheet surging and the Fed now four trillion dollars of whatever and a Bank of Japan is this. It doesn't do anything like the crazy part is that I I I opened. It goes all these things have been. The effect is very little go. Currencies have not gotten wildly debased. Inflation hasn't taken off until again. I've seen yet right. There's always yet but I think that by law urge this sort of like failure of what seemed like kind of would be obvious governments as creating four trillion dollars worth of reserves. This got to do something. That's the kind of phenomenon that leads to You know that I think has opened the door to other other ways of thinking about how the economy works. Have you tracked these more or less along the same time period then because MT started to pick up steam in twenty ten twenty Levin Bitcoin? You know they've kind of it's almost like they both gone and same cycles yet. They really have you know there. There's something that only realized a few literally just thinking about this question because I've seen like people on twitter. That like posit that there is this sort of like inherent tension between MT in Bitcoin. I don't really I don't really buy it at all because you could certainly believe that Modern monetary theory offers a better framework for understanding a government finances and the domestic economy than mainstream models or any other unorthodox model. And you could simultaneously believe that. There is a lot of appetite for a decentralized currency that censorship free seizure free and so on so I don't really see the tension that other people claim there is but I will say one thing that I really think is similar about these two things and you know. One is a form of money in one school of thought. So they're hardly even compare because they're different but one thing that I think is actually similar and I think it's interesting that I haven't seen anyone else talk about is that both are fueled by two groups of people. One is the sort of like technical academic side and the other is sort of evangelists. So like you know you look at Bitcoin. And they're obviously people who liked to extremely technical work. They're working on the protocol. Organic is like lightning working on wallets and so forth. And they're you know that it's hard computer science. It's interesting computer science. And then you have the sort of Vanja List's who are on twitter. Who likes say the same thing over and over again in? Show it to their friends and so forth. That's fine but it's like it's a both sides. Kind of necessary right like they. The the shows wouldn't have anything to show and I say the term dearmer by whatever the the believers would have anything to promote if it weren't for the people doing the hard work and all that hard work on the computer science side wouldn't really go anywhere if it didn't have the people like Short Spreading The Gospel and I think the US dollar has the US military as people that are mean to you on the Internet. Yeah exactly and I think if you look at modern monetary theory. There's this one thing that I think separates it from other schools of thought. Which is that you have people in Departments around the world like doing serious work on all this stuff and then there is also this sort of like activist wing of the tears and people who are not academic economists but who really want to inject this message into the debate and the message they wanted to inject that the way we've been thinking about government finances is completely wrong. The language that we use to describe government finances has artificially created has lettuce. Too Bad decisions That That we didn't need to make trade offs that we didn't need to make premature austerity. That didn't need to happen and so forth. And that's a that's really been important because I think that the MTA project is not satisfied with just writing obscure articles in academic journals that nobody wants to read. It wants to change the debate. And you don't see that with other schools of thought like so like you know neoclassical economics. New Keynesian economics which is kind of like what most central bankers and stuff are. There is not some ground game of true believers in like sort of view of economics. That someone like Ben Bernanke E had Which is Who is like you know? Pumping like pro. Brunetti procure memes on twitter. Dr Chief you know. Could people think are getting so weird but by and large that sort of That sort of Bifurcation between the academic work and ideological work is Sort of distinct with them. Too and Kind of also paralleled in where we've seen bitcoin come from. I would say so there. There is this sort of weird parallel. About how these two things post crisis in the space where people were seeking something new questioning what they had been told. Most of them have sort of emerged as these up. You know major phenomena. Do you cover anything else personally. so it seems that Bitcoin. Maybe because it's followed this a parallel path mt and kind of acro narratives. Because it's the biggest. Yeah you know because you can very easily label it like digital goal. Rier whatever peer to peer currency It's relatively simple and it fits broader markets narratives. They're gonNA cover day-to-day basis which is important as the rest of the industry. So niche right. A theory is a fifteen billion dollar market CAP. That's a small to mid cap stock as moving on a day-to-day basis yet. You have to balance because you have the experience with Bitcoin radio that this could explode right. How how how do you spend your time studying the everything else? I mean you afford to kind of wait and get knowledgeable like once. There is a spike. It's a mix I mean because like obviously crypto overall. It's still a relatively narrow slice of what I have the capacity to cover. It's sort of like I kind of have to wait and see all right. Is this becoming a real thing? like. I've spent a look I feel. Look I mean prion you under says like they totally get any of this stuff is kinda lying. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on bitcoin's role in the ecosystem what the project is therefore fortunately like I know people who are a lot smarter than me and I'm like what the heck is going on with. You know tap root or Schnorr and I had that explained to me ten times I still. I always forget what it is like. You know some new like multi transactions. Whatever and I try to do the same when I hear about like a theory or I tried. I know people are getting excited about you. Know Defy and therion back Stable clients until I've people are like what's going on with this and then like my ability to generate to actually like Divan on things like really starts to trail off after that but You now anonymous trolls who like DM with me that. If I see some weird like scandal breaking out in the crypto world that I don't understand that I could say like you find similar real quickly to film in but most of that is not even for my report. I just for my own curiosity and I think there is a general impression that the media will only cover crypto airs a massive spike a massive dump or some type of scandal or or Salacious headline yeah. Is that fair or does it just seem like that? How how do you think about covering? Yeah this asset class Because it I in my eyes the positives are slow and steady. The negatives are sharp right. Yeah it's really complex. It's really complicated for a few reasons and one of the things that in a there are so many what I would call either like outright scammers or Polite scammers or defacto scammers in the space. He'll like the obviously there's tons of like Ponzi schemes in Exit Scams and several cure theft. Right so we know all that but then there's also a lot of like defacto scams by which I mean people pumping promoting some aspect of crypto currency. Because it sounds cool and the idea is really bad but they want to sound the yeah in. The problem is from the media. Perspective is that there. Aren't that many people who just like have the intimate familiarity. Kind of weird things like there are a lot of people in the media who are still because it's so new different. Don't have the familiarity sniff out like what's real what's actually substantial. What's just vaporware? What's just someone is trying to sound cool. So that is like a big `asymmetry another really big one. Is that because of like? Maybe it's like the weird like sort of a cult lake aspect of it. I mean even when you introduced me. Your tried like flip one day. Hopefully guy fully flip over and it is a real thing you hear it. It's like wall streeters. Gone to Crypto. Whatever it is there are not that many people in the world that I've come across. Who are both really into covering the space really know about it. Who Haven't flipped. It's like if you're like someone's going interested in it then it's like everyone like kind of like flips over into that world and so you. Kinda have this weird like evaporative. Cooling effect where the the people who are interested in it or get assigned to cover it It takes them a while to become familiar with it. And you know it doesn't fit into neatly into any existing asset classes You know it was a digital. Gold is a reasonable analogy. But obviously it's not airtight because all kinds of differences and it's not really a commodity. No Gold can get turned into jewelry but Clinton get turned into anything. So it's decent but it's not a great analogy. I don't think it just a commodity it's kind of a currency to I have an. I think that it's kind of like a maybe. It should be covered by real estate people but Lisa. Platypus is harder from Boston capital. So there's all kinds of challenges and I think they'll get better over time and I think like the mainstream media coverage of it has gotten a lot better over time and continue to do so but to your initial question you know. Hopefully the fastest periods of new learning will be during the sharp runup and sharper down. Because that's what draws people in like. I said the beginning markets is what goes up down. Markets is a line that goes up and down and when things aren't moving. Then I think interest stagnates and then when things move fast one direction suddenly people are more so the process. So you're flipped. Price is what like forty thousand fifty thousand coin desk is like lead anchor right something like that. That's where somewhere the bid is where it's still we're still yeah exactly right. Let's talk about how the narrative actually get shaped. Yeah because I I that some conversation because I've been on both sides of the day. I'm an analyst independently. I don't I'm not near as deep as I was when I was doing this full time day to day. Twenty thirteen twenty four teams. You know and the industry has gotten so much bigger to even for me. It's impossible to keep up and this is our whole company right. Emma sorry at our our whole focus. I've run coined as well..
Why The Rise of Passive Investing Might Be Distorting The Market
"Hello and welcome to another episode of the odd lots podcast. I'm Tracy alloway and I'm Joe Weisenthal. So Joe I tweeted something recently early and It provoked a large response on social media. It's weird how that happens right. You tweeted something that provoked a response. I I find it very hard to believe. I know it's outrageous but I was talking about. Have you heard of the fire of movement. Yes vaguely like I am familiar with it. It's has to do with people Retiring early right. Yeah so it's fire as an F. R. E. and it stands for financial independence retire early and the basic idea is you can save a lot of money and if you invest it wisely you can retire at an early age like in your thirties and supposedly it's it can work out for for. Even normal people are people on normal normal salaries. We're not talking about really wealthy people and the thing that I always find really interesting about. It is when you go and read about how people are actually investing investing that money so that they can retire early. They're almost all talking about doing it themselves. And be through passive investments events like. ATS right exactly right. So people think they live frugally. They they work for several years. They live frugally. But but then they sort of have this confidence that historical returns that we've seen in stock and bond markets throughout the world will always be there for them in the future and so they just put a bunch of money in passive. ETF's or you know it passive ish ETF's and then they count on that existing for the rest of their lives and then they do something. I don't know they go on. Read it or tweet for the next from thirty five until that's right and the reason I find. This wasn't so bad to me to be honest I would be. I would do that if I if I had confidence. You can see the going up for sure but the reason I find it so interesting. From a market perspective is to me it hits upon like a number for a very very important themes but really it hits upon this question of whether or not the fire movement can exist without the bull market that we've seen for the last ten years right like it's very easy to say dump all your money in something like You know a vanguard total stock market. ETF and just watch it soar. When that's the thing that's been happening for years and years and years? Well I'll say two things. One is certainly raises. The question about whether this subculture can continue to exist but it also raises another question about people who aren't in that subculture but in a way have defacto in fact he'll bought into because this mantra that we've gotten from Sort of the media and fund management industry is okay. Most people aren't saying you should try to retire at thirty five or forty but this idea never try to time. The market never pick individual stocks. Just have a broad diversified provide basket of ETF that you may be rebalanced every once in a while has become so intense and extreme and everyone's being pushed to invest like that so even if you are one one of the fire people on read it it still raises the question. Of how much is everyone else who is not planning on per se. Retiring early. Essentially bought into Olis' extreme version of the same story absolutely and you'll see a lot of the investment advice set. The fire people talk about is actually very very similar to advice given to people generally generally when it comes to their 401k's and stuff like that passive is supposed to be cheaper. It's supposed to be much better. But what if there's a downside to passive of investing we've spoken about active versus passive on the podcast before but we haven't done that much on how passive investing might actually be changing the the way the market functions. No absolutely and it's such an important question given as we've been talking about how many people have portfolios in which the only action they do is just add to the same basket of three or four. ATF's every single month working lives. It's been fantastic since the crisis with incredible rally in stocks and bonds simultaneously but as they say Past performance no guarantee of future returns. This is true all all right. Well I'm happy to say that we have the perfect person to talk about this today. our guest is Mike Greene. He's the chief strategist and portfolio manager over at Logica a capital investors. Mike thanks for being on. Thank you for having me so I guess my first question is. How did you get interested in at this? Particular area examining the impact of passive investing on the broader market. Is that something that you are observing in your sort of day job. Well the way I think of my day job is to really try to understand the market structure. I'm not a traitor in the traditional sense wasn't trained on a prop desk or anything else and so you know I've always managed to make money by trying to figure out. Actually what people are being forced to do. What is the incentive structure? That's causing people to do what I think is fundamentally irrational rather than just saying. Hey they're crazy using stupid and this eventually stop the opportunity to dig in and understand. Actually the incentive structures that have been created the restraint requirements requirements for people to engage in certain transactions whether it's from a regulatory framework or whether that's from a an institutional framework basically built into their Prospectus this ultimately that can create the opportunity to identify trades that you think are irrational and have the potential to break as that behavior is brought to its logical extreme. That's how I stumbled onto this stuff. So what are in your view. The big structural trends or the big structural impositions on individual investors or pension refund or any other entity. That has a lot of money that are all causing people to sort of invest in the same way right now one of the big the key ideas here. So there's a couple of Keith. Things the first is is that the growth of passive investing has has been well documented right and the narrative behind the outperformance fundamentally built around the work of of Bill Sharpe. who was the father of of the sharp ratio The cap M Formula Etcetera His paper in Nineteen ninety-one called the arithmetic of active management management. Is this analysis that we've all heard that says fundamentally passive investors by definition are only matching the active investors in terms of their overall allocation. And so the difference is just GonNa it'd be fees which means that the active managers underperform. Everyone accepts this Today because we've seen the evidence of the outperformance of passive but very few people take time to go back and actually look at the construction of the problem. The assumptions that existed under that the assumptions are just absurd right so in in the definition of what a passive investor is according to Bill. Sharpe is that pass. Investors hold all the securities on the market. How do they get in? That's magic out of the get out. That's also magic. They never transact right the minute they transact they ceased to be passive investors and as we know passing vehicles or feeling with billions and billions of dollars of inflows on a daily and weekly basis there in the market transacting. They are the single largest trans actors actors. By far and as a result they have to be influencing the market they cannot be passive the fundamental premise on which this whole idea is built is flawed right. The second thing that has happened though is because passive investing has grown so large and so powerful. The resources to engage in lobbying efforts to institutionalize passive within the framework has expanded dramatically. Most people have a cursory familiarity with things like 401k plans. IRA's vast majority of Americans have some exposure go through their employer to these plans. Those rules have changed over the years. Through the lobbying efforts of passive players vanguard and Blackrock to inculcate passive of strategies into these vehicles under the premise that this is the best possible vehicle for the vast majority of Americans to invest in and it had the effect of creating this crowding crowding that is further accelerated the performance of the benchmarks that these are ultimately tied to Oman. Sorry there's so much just in the first a couple of minutes That I find really really fascinating. Oh why don't we go back to the first point. which is this idea that? When we're evaluating the performance silence of passive versus active where not actually taking into account the way that passive can influence the market? So how are you seeing passive investing actually impact the market. Now we're seeing it in a couple of different ways right One is that we're seeing a distinct performance advantage that is being created for those securities that are in indices that are being invested into by passive investors. This is fairly well studied phenomenon in terms of the dynamic. What's called index inclusion? So we have one off events in which we can look at securities that have been put into an index or have been injected from a widely traded index. And we see either. There is a distinct and permanent shift in the valuation the price levels associated with those securities. Mrs Well Documented Academic Literature with the literature editor has not studied is the dynamic of the continued inclusion the continued flow of capital and that becomes a harder problem because suddenly they're on par with all of the other constituents students in the index and they're all experiencing it all right so I I gave a speech several years ago in which I compared it to the David Foster Wallace. This is water right. The medium him in which we're actually participating as being skewed by the behavior of these passive flows.
Saudi Aramco to Raise $25.6 Billion in Biggest I.P.O. Ever
"Yeah Saudi Aramco its initial public offering pricing at the top of the range that makes it the biggest IPO ever at twenty five point six billion dollars beating Ali Baba back in twenty fourteen which is twenty five billion even so you know just goes to show you that even at a time when energy stocks are really struggling you know our Aramco man it's finally to get this done the Saudi government more the point is to get this done and it wasn't a total trade dollar valuation but one tool one point seven trillion not bad but it's amazing it Joe weisenthal what you can do in terms of raising money when you basically go to a bunch of super rich people and say Hey bud you're going to buy some of this site yeah right yeah my thought one point seven trillion dollars you know I as soon as I saw that number and I hate to be cynical because that's not my style but I saw that number and I took a sheet of paper and I ripped off the corner and I said if someone buys this little piece of paper for me for a dollar then the big piece of paper be worth a thousand dollar yeah that is essentially what that means because if you just sell this tiny slice and you basically set the price because some of it is bought by other countries who may have other motives besides Kerr monetary reasons to buy some are bull bought a lot by the domestic rich and is this tiny slice and it doesn't actually float in global markets in any meaningful way you know that number may we need to be difficult I PL on several different levels and we and we know that going
Global stocks eke out gains on flickering trade hopes
"But first let's set the business week and gender the boys are here Joe weisenthal markets editor for blood work and the co host of what you miss that's coming up at four PM all three time NBA TV and Dave Wilson are stocks editor the author of the chart and stock of the day with us throughout the show Joe want to start with you it obviously was a busy weekend yeah headline Weiss and so you come in on a day like today today you sort of see a more positive traits certainly more positive than what we saw on Friday what do you make of the news for what people were extremely confused this morning because there was trump saying that the Chinese had called him China didn't confirm that then someone who Chinese media figures at there there were calls but they're very low level of technical trunk came back and said they were the highest level by and large I don't think people really believe trump that being said the fact that he was saying it I think people interpreted to be a little bit he wants to get something done and I think it is there is a point of market volatility that curbs him and so you even so last night I thought was interesting he tweeted sick by the way when you look at my stock market performance you just heard from the election and not inauguration day which I read is him being a little anxious about the market volatility in remember on Friday during a selloff he joked about the volatility is like this is because I said the molten is jumping on the president's right which was funny but also kind of indicated that like I laughed but it was like I don't really care but then by Sunday night he was like and check kind of care and so there is a point where the stock market does sort of seem to curb his impulses a little bit so we're now we've not pull back about five percent more than five percent of the Dow and the S. and P. from their high stable so come on in on the trade what does it tell you kind of about the health of the market and how the market is reacting tweet by tweet if you well well I mean we're see what we've seen now for a couple weeks in August in training does tend to slow down you've you've gotten past the second quarter results there isn't much left as far as that's concerned you know the dollar store chains dollar general dollar tree and a few others this week but things are pretty well set as far as that goes analysts looking for third quarter decline in S. and P. five hundred profit we won't really get much were read on that for another month and a half or so the new growth that they're expecting contraction there as well not an outbreak contraction but slower growth you know more like three four percent so that's the backdrop and really I mean you just say get bounced around from day to day with with all the back and forth on trade and interest rates and whatever else you care to name but it doesn't necessarily suggest the market has a whole lot of direction here I will they say though I mean this is something I was talking about last week then you know you look at smaller companies and in effect they want for a bear market in the second half of last year and the S. and P. five hundred barely skirted one if you look at the twenty percent decline as sorry a reference point so you know what it is really hard to say definitively that we're still in a bull market here in what was seen lately calls into question even more and Joe we're gonna get into this later on in the show I mean what do you take away from the G. seven especially easy trying to assimilate everything that's coming into the news desk both from France from our colleagues and Washington and even from our colleagues around the world what what's been the sort of the big take away and leave out the tweets about the lives okay that's yeah you know there's a good good I think there's a few different things but I think as we've seen with previous sort of multi lateral meetings of heads of state it's always kind of like the trunk plus six show yeah right Hey is sort of how I think about it he tends to like you know he turns on the charm a little bit it's a weird Trumpy in Sharm that's not conventional yeah we always talk about how good his relationship is with though right and Trudeau intimate Cronin then you read these stories afterwards about how horrified right one was any so obviously we're we're the interesting thing about this one is all these other countries feel like they're kind of at the whim of his moves especially on the economy because everyone's gonna get affected Germany is affected by the trade war you heard Boris Johnson saying you know we would prefer trade peace to be honest even other heather ally so I think there is this sort of five right now where his actions particularly on the economy a really leaving them all feeling kind of a helpless and vulnerable and just sort of hoping he'll change course in some way but I don't know if that system well there's one thing that you need to know today at this Monday on it's been a busy Monday already day what would it be that's a heck of a question now let's say delay fresh off about deal making is alive and well yeah I like that I mean because you got this thirteen and point four billion dollar deal on the drug industry this arises treatment taz well owned by Celgene being solved and Jan so cell gene can combine with Bristol Myers and all the stocks are up to seven inches is looking like a win win win your time at some of the biggest gains in the S. and P. five hundred Celgene Bristol Myers ends and all of more than two and a half percent they can't say that for all the deals that are out there there are a couple you know smaller companies making transactions that are going over so well but you know you still got things going on couple little low energy company shall produces out of Colorado get together and their shares pop yes how about PVC energy which is up sixty percent S. R. C. energy up more than ten and a half percent so you still got that even at the time you know when you ordinarily would be thinking about the dog days of August yeah dog days indeed Joe weisenthal anything else top of mind for you for the to get on with your day you know I just there's a headline that just moved biggest monthly drop for ten year yields in slash house in fifteen it's so I think that's pretty pretty extraordinary way to put a cap on put a cap on what we've seen just this incredible bid it feels like it's slowing down a little bit but ma'am yeah that's not even over yet it's been it's been quite a few weeks sleeping I was sick from afar newspapers going online to do stuff all right why isn't all thank you so much they will send him back
Why President Trump's Move Against Huawei Is Such A Big Deal
"And welcome to another episode of the odd lots podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal my co-host, Tracy Alloway. She's off. She couldn't make today's episode. It's kind of an emergency last minute episode though, because we wanted to do something very timely with just the right guest. Obviously the trade tensions with China continuing to ratchet up and it's really becoming less and less, I would say about the trade deficit, and some of these classical topics that we think of in a trade war, and much more about this sort of brewing technology. Cold War is people are putting it and the moves that the Trump administration has taken against some of China's big tech companies today. I'm going to be speaking on the subject with a previous odd lots guest going to be talking with Dan Wong. He's a technology analyst at Gav Cal. Dragon nommik. He's also a. Bloomberg opinion columnist which is very cool. You might recall we spoke to Dan awhile ago, about the China twenty twenty-five initiative, the endeavor on the part of the Chinese government really sort of build its own domestic leadership, and all these big tech areas. So, Dan, is really the perfect person to discuss these new developments with wanted to get him on wanted to get his perspective on the latest development. So without further ado, I want to bring in Dan, Dan Wong. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks a lot, Joe. So obviously pretty pretty interesting moved we've seen over the last few weeks, very serious ratcheting up in the trade war talks as President Trump has moved to really put the pressure on wall way. Major Chinese tech giant, what are you describe to us to start? What is wall way? What is their significance in the global or in the? Chinese tech ecosystem, where did they come from? How did they become so important? So I think hallway is the most important technology company in China, and it has a few major business lines. I think the chew most important ones are it's smartphone business, and then it's on network equipment business. So as a matter of comparison, a hallway sold about, as many smartphones as apple did a last year, although much profits, but it is a major seller smartphones around the world on not just in China, but also in southeast Asia. A now, increasingly in Europe the other major business line it has is network infrastructure.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Bloomberg Radio New York
"Let's bring Joe Weisenthal markets editor at Bloomberg Wilson stocks that are at Bloomberg news were squeezed guys. So just quickly Joe. What's caught your attention in the markets today? Very similar to Monday and Tuesday with the lack of action for the main indices, some interesting stock moves, obviously video games getting clobbered snap bouncing nicely. But overall, this is some quiet going on the volatility front and just a little bit lower. Dave Wilson, right? Does video game makers front and center Electronic Arts results. Disappointing that stocks down thirteen percent. Take two interactive there. Alec ones. Oh, good. They're down even more fourteen and a half percent activision blizzard where they. A ten percent. Plus declines, well, also advertisers agencies. You got the numbers out of France's Publicis that didn't go over. So well, so INTERPOL economic com are also weighing on the S and P five hundred Dave Wilson, stocks editor for Bloomberg. He'll be back with us a little bit later on Joe Weisenthal markets editor heading off to TV. What you missed coming up at four PM. Thank you so much guys for the short thoughts. All right. Let's get a check on the national news headlines for that were over to Martin Takara. He's our Bloomberg ninety nine one studio in the nation's capital. Hi martin. Hello. Carol won't Virginia is now awash in political scandal as another top democratic officeholder emits. He once wore black face in college. It's Virginia attorney general, Mark herring. Just last week called on governor. Ralph Northam to resign after racist photo was discovered on his medical school yearbook. Page Virginia Senator Mark Warner. A democrat was asked about the cascading revelations.
Global stocks sell off as tech tumbles
"So is this kind of free launch that investors were getting extra return without taking any extra risks. And now we're really getting the backside of that same phenomenon the relentless sewing concerning. I think is that if you look at say end of October positioning, it didn't look like a washout by all accounts. Investors were still over exposed to many of these names like Facebook and Amazon and apple and so forth. So even though the selling was really intense. It didn't exactly scream capitulation or some sort of evening out. So what are people actually saying about the tech stocks is it just a momentum play in reverse now? Because if you look at the fundamentals people are still saying that earnings are going to be like thirty one percent more for next year for tech. The funny thing with these things because yes, like there is the momentum aspect, but once the stock start to decline suddenly people see. They didn't see in a different light. It's like when the lights come on and the club and suddenly things don't look as good. And you see the stains all over the place and people talk about slowing sales or regulatory risk. Suddenly price has that affected making the same assets, look fundamentally less appealing. I like that analogy when the lights go on in the club. I've never experienced that. All right. Thank you. Joe weisenthal? Let's bring in our guest Mikio commodity is executive director over at L, G, T, capital partners and Mckee. I'm curious just to get your thoughts on the recent row, especially what we've seen in Japanese equities because you actually have Japanese equities as a conviction by correct? Yes. Well, we are on the buy side. So we don't necessarily people. What to do what we have Japan is one of the markets where we are overweight and this route even though of course, it's very intense. At least my take would be that. It's a normal correction. That'll sorted. Itself out in due time that goes for the SNP as well. The sell off that we saw in October was a two standard deviation. Sell of if you look at history going back to nineteen fifty two thirds of the cases of not more of the market has recovered. One two three months later it trended higher. So I don't think it's going to be different. Mikio? Ultimately, this is a question of whether the contagion is gonna hit some of the stocks. And some of the indexes in Asia, we have another chart in our library. Go for our clients telling a story, of course of the rally in danger of being in Iran in Asia already being endangered Asia Pacific index failing to break through a key people that she technical level. How worried are you given how soon after the October volatility took place? Well, it's a setback, of course. But you know, it's never a straight our very rarely a straight line up. I would say for Asia or the
Turkey's Markets Plunge Into the Unknown After U.S. Sanctions
"It filed for bankruptcy protection from its creditors and Turkish markets plunging today deeper into the. Wild on president at. Sanctions imposed by the United States, its NATO ally of added to, the cross currents buffeting investors they of already, been despairing policymakers failure to contain inflation, and stem the slide in the lira under. Pressure from president one to bolster growth recapping. US equities, higher across the board with the s&p up. Fourteen of five tenths of one percent I'm Charlie Pellett and that is. A Bloomberg business flash Thank you very much Charlie Pellett art it's, time to bring in, Joe Weisenthal our markets editor for Bloomberg news, also co host of what you miss yes. Every weekday every trading, day three. Thirty PM Wall Street time, only on Bloomberg television and you can follow Joe on Twitter at the stalwart also joining us in studios Dave Wilson Bloomberg stocks editor and you can follow Dave on Twitter at the one Dave all, right Joe Weisenthal post Federal Reserve meeting no change in interest. Rates for the United States but a change of interest rates for. The United Kingdom from the Bank of England is, that relevant to what, you're, looking at today I mean the thing is about the Bank of England is that it really. Only affects the, UK when we talk about central banks Having an influence on global market is usually the via we and the b.. O. j. and the fed, but I still think it's interesting that the. Bank of England hiked not. Because it's gonna, have any ripple effects outside of outside. Of the market there but because for. Whatever reason central bankers seemed to really like hiking rates and the proof. Of, that is that it's hard to imagine that the UK's risk of overheating the economy decelerating they're facing a potentially big shock and they still went ahead with it anyway. But why, did they do it they do it because they were concerned about inflationary, pressures. Because of, the devaluation of the pound maybe it's very compelling there's like a little bit of, inflation but it's already trending down there was some point there was some talk before. That they needed to hike because they didn't hike? Some other, time they were expected to hike and now they need to show some credibility I don't really get that so you know I think central banker. Just like to hike they can? Okay we can pass on that I guess all right I really believe I've every let's bring. The one Dave in. Here David Wilson stocks editor for Bloomberg, news has the hike had. Any impact on the. Stock markets here in the states you wanna talk about what's going on in stocks look at. Across the pie you're looking, at apple and tesla right mean apple becoming. The first US could apple. And tesla again Yesterday was Day NASDAQ is up one and a. Quarter percent the NASDAQ is up more than ninety six, points? Today right and apple is read the forefront. Of that this is the first US company to cross a trillion dollars in. Market value and when you look at the way that the stock has, moved up it doesn't look like it's going to be a one, day wonder which is what. You saw November two thousand seven when petrochina's started trading in Shanghai and got above the trillion dollars four day while apple is the largest stock in, the? NASDAQ right, I mean it accounts for something like eight and a half percent of the total. NASDAQ waiting so when apple moves the NASDAQ's gonna, move well. That's true a bear. In mind you go back and look at how this stock. Has done it is been, up all but two years since two thousand three I mean it's not something. That just sort of happened all at once and you can argue whether, the reaction to the earnings that came out earlier this week me, justifies the latest move in. That said there were definitely some pluses in the numbers and we know that apple has a history of introducing models in September which is the last, month? Of their, fiscal year so that's something to look forward to and when you put it all. Together this history making day not only for apple, but also. For the US market. And you mentioned tesla certainly the story there is very different. This is a company that's, never made money a company that day Oh no it's not. I mean even Amazon, was in that situation once upon a. Time but taste certainly make a whole lot of money these days Years, later I mean you know you had to wait for it right yeah the point is though they've never made a profit they'd been using up cash, and you know this story is they didn't use up as. Much cast last quarter is analysts were looking for only seven hundred and forty million dollars and that. Was enough to send Tesla's shares on a roll so that's sort of where that company is. And musk is starting to sound more like a CEO not like he did three months ago when he was berating analysts on his quarterly conference call so you got. Tesla up fourteen and a half percent at the moment it it, does kind of show, you that, it, doesn't, take much. Sometimes to, get investors excited and when you get sort of a, few points to focus on you see the results Joe is Is apple. The best stock ever and his tesla are we being old fashioned in saying that test is. Gonna make money no I don't think we're being I mean I don't know what the best ever is I think there probably are stocks that have had better returns. In shorter periods of time Netflix comes to mind if we're just, thinking about the century, so far You know Apple's one trillion is a really high number Breathtaking story as for tesla look I think what got investors excited yesterday was partly the indication and the promise of positive, cash flow going forward and prophets that big said a they've had predictions in the past about this stuff that I think disappointed. Investors in the end and be they gotta, hit it and so I think that sort. Of shows you know. There is a limit to it quick question for you Joe Weisenthal you're going to. Buy any new apple, product that comes out in September you're on your phone you probably will because. I, think I'll be up for. A, new phone, at yeah you got an apple now yeah Yeah. Yeah No I have like the seven. Or, whatever no, Dave Wilson. Just curious I also had. The seven I was thinking about buying one, last year. Skipped it I'll think a whole lot hard harder about buying one this year Bob every I'm not even going. As, pigeons yeah I figured you it's tried. And true. My, friend, yeah But. It's Feed bill Rooftops still cheaper than I guess. It is thanks very much Joe Weisenthal co host of what Jim is check. It out, Bloomberg television three thirty PM Wall. Street time and, of course Dave Wilson Bloomberg stocks columnist David e dwilson Bloomberg. Dot net sign up for his daily free. Email newsletter now let's go to. Our ninety nine one studios in Washington DC where Martin dicara has world the, national headlines Martin thanks him happening. Right now top White House officials are describing plans to safeguard the midterm elections from. Foreign interference the administration's been criticized for not. Doing more stay tuned to Bloomberg radio for more on this. Developing story the, massive wildfire northern California grew overnight fueled, by wind the blaze in and around the city of reading now covers two hundred. Square miles Cal. Fire director Ken Pimlot says an army. Of firefighters thirteen thousand strong is working to contain it and other blazes across the state over twenty seven thousand Firefighters on the fire lines throughout the western United States so almost half of. Those are right here in California wildfires are also scorching hundreds of square miles. In Oregon, more than eleven hundred people likely. Died after hurricane, Maria hit Puerto Rico far more than the official death count. Of sixty four Penn State university study is. The second such review to make. Clear President Trump initially underestimated the tragedy when he compared it favorably to the, aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in two. Thousand five this new report suggests nearly seven hundred of the deaths occurred during two. Months when much of Puerto Rico had no. Electricity Republican hopes for a quick confirmation of supreme court nominee. Brett Cavanaugh might, be over the national archive says won't, be able to complete its review of nearly a million documents regarding Kavanagh's time in. The.
Charlie Pellett, Joe Weisenthal and Texas discussed on Bloomberg Markets
"Strengthen biotech shares following reports that biogen's alzheimer's drug showed positive results in a large clinical trial that stock right now biogen up seventeen point nine percent the dollar extending losses treasuries climbing as investors assess a mixed jobs report and the impact with that escalating trade rift with china job gains so of two hundred thirteen thousand topped projections the jobless rate now at four percent wages missed forecasts it was a mixed report that c stevenson is an economics professor at the university of michigan she also served as chief economist that the labor department and on bloomberg surveillance this morning she told us it's all about the quality of jobs the issue about getting more americans employed really isn't about the unemployment rate down lower it's about bringing more people into the labor market but i think the thing that did you hear from your listeners that the average person or belief is that they don't have the job they necessarily want or they don't have the hours they want or they're not able to use their skills appropriately and certainly a topic we'll have more on coming up today here on bloomberg markets sonos filing for a us ipo as the wireless speaker pioneer giving a gears up to take on increasing competition from amazon google and apple sonos based in santa barbara the ten year down one thirty seconds yield now two point eight three percent gold down three tenths of one percent twelve fifty four ounce west texas intermediate crude up one percent seventy three sixty six per barrel of wti again recapping here equities higher snp up twenty four up nine tenths of one percent i'm charlie pellett and that is a bloomberg business flash post fourth of july charlie pellett indeed you deserve a break i gotta break i had fun what a great week anyway totally pot thank you so much you're listening to bloomberg markets carol massar in our bloomberg eleven three s studio let's bring in our team joe weisenthal market center at.
[ANALYSIS] How South Africa is tightening its tobacco rules
"Thousand before twenty twenty the city's health department says hiking the price has shown to prevent people from starting to smoke scientists in hawaii wondering what the killer way volcano will do next the volcano continues to use lava through cracks in the ground but the crater has been quiet since wednesday daily eruptions of ash and volcanic rock of shaken loose tons of rocks inside i'm barton necker this is bloomberg daybreak weekend our global look ahead at the top stories for investors in the coming week i'm bob moon in new york let's get you ready for the week ahead on wall street and joining us sees bloomberg markets reporter danny burger and joe weisenthal head of the americas news desk for bloomberg news welcome to you.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"I of course we're going to subscribe to that of course we're going to read that newsletter whatever it is yeah because of the grand scheme of things people are dealing with you know insane amal amman so you came into this world um during the dotcom crash uh we are now living in the glorious crypto age uh what do you think like the next big story like what do you think we're going to be talking about when we redo this interview in five years that's going to be the less so hard absolutely or what are you what personal i give you if the if they just said hey you know all this generalizing it's a little too broad we want you to go in for the next year on like this a udf and i'm like dedicate your myers to one thing mean what what's the most exciting thing going on right now i'm gonna just put crypto side begin it really is a fascinating world but it's almost like i feel like it'd be cheating okay and other personnel decrypt yeah the other response i'd say look i think the the global economy is a period of change right now most of the world was operating sub potential for many years pretty high unemployment in europe pretty high unemployment in the us lots to pools of untapped labor in the developing world there were sort of brought into the global economy it's at least possible that that's about to change unemployment rate is pretty low in the us it's coming down pretty dramatically in europe the developing world probably doesn't have is much sir.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Figure it out and bloomberg is like i kinda compared to if you're in some markets it's kind of like if you're into chocolate and got to work and willy wonka struck affect because it's just this whole world of linking screens you have a boomer terminal your house oh i have it on my g a amaya laptop as like software elia africa it's not a thorough term ciller is a real terminal that he has hardware and a special keyboard but you can also it's called bloomberg anywhere you can also run the course software in any computer but it's kind of like when you go into that world it's this a world in pure imagination like i wanna like look up what rubber prices are doing in vietnam yeah to the second and i just type it in in its there and then it blinking on my screen and then i have another window open and they are tracking interest rates and have another window open and whatever it is it's you could create this whole world where you're just sort of basically in the markets and then also and bloomberg is like the smartest people at lake there's no because there's so many people there who are experts in things is an unparalleled like oh i want to talk to someone about s deal today soast i you know so between this sort of technological aspect and the people around it he really really interested in markets there's no better place to be i hadn't really thought about this before but it's one of the few nieces in media and journalism that's definitely not going away like there will be markets the markets will move money and therefore gaby like people who are gonna pay for coverage of those markets it that's the thing it's like there's a lot of money at stake yeah all this in a lot of people have a lot on the lion yeah and so there is an incredible demand for expertise and people who can convey information deliver information and if you're good at that in order bloomberg or anywhere else for the amount of money it that is at stake media as could be a very small expense for these people.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"That finance twitter would be until and one of the reasons i think that as my goal is that if finance twitter people are into it or like it that means there is a lot of people in the world of financial like at because i think that's ike day sort of the people on twitter who for whatever reason to could tweet probably um are a decently representative audience of a lot of people who for whatever similar interest but similar interests but work prohibition yeah we're for ovation's it yeah so i thought that was a good way to approach it so and i think part of that is guests i think we've had a lot of guests on the show that prior to this show would have never gone a tv people that i basically discovered through twitter who were not maybe like lake that sort of legacy financial voices that yeah been watching when i was in high school and stuff like that we should not to say that you know we talk to them too but i it's a mix we've introduced a bunch of new voices twitter is of your visual people are always tweeting charts and stuff like that so is really important to do is show that was charred heavy and it's you know it's wonky is nerdy yeah and in a so when we talk about things like inflation and the jobs report or what's happening in cryptocurrencies like i think it's a very important that even know sometimes we only have a short period of time do you really get down into the muck and even end so there's a limit on in a television a conversation how deep you can go some ties because time is fine i would not like this where we can have a credit extremely long conversation that can breathe but you just have to be really strategic and say you know i want to move it detailed pretty fast with ilich when you're bringing on people who may have never been itv and maylike have like cantankerous online personalities like is it a kind of a curveball situation where you don't like you don't doubt of the person sits down relieve and who they are yeah that's happened is exciting and dyke.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Live i'll be will say i cohosted a cable tv show and says i cannot i dislike i have to say yes to this so when and i love it i mean coercing a ninety minute are the show saurav at thirty minutes now ninety minutes it's basically like night a pretty big jump yet sort of expanded overtime than when to an hour and enough schedule changes but um to me the greatest thing in life whether it's professionally or just an socializing friends relationships whatever is just someone a great conversation i just think it's just the best way to if you have a really good conversation with some one is the best and other people all the time i like wanna start podcasts and they'll they'll pay oh we're going to have like all this found sound absolutely must people just want to like m hear a great conversation most people's a format they're familiar with is to people expressing themselves in concert with some rhythm and take all the best things in life like great memories so many of them are like you just talked to sort of yours right and so on a daily tv show of course you know you can't we don't talk to guess for an hour at a time but every single day without fail yeah there are people on the show that i'm really excited to talk about and to talk about one of my favorite subjects markets and economics every single day and so dhs you're on set and there's a camera there there's a little bit of acting involved because you have to sort of learn a few mechanics of how to talk to the camera and stuff like that and sometimes you have to read headlines but every day you get dili's have a couple really interesting conversations they should great it's awesome so just five days a week yeah all right so that means you're on air for seven and a half hours weah yeah so just blake by the laws of probability like are you hitting point three like i have no idea what this person's talking about i feel an islander for peril he wasn't asked they don't ever three weeks so the good news.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Tens magazine profil which covers much of that but so you road this way and then you jumped off it now you're on tv and particularly on kind of a tv web if station the plays on the website it's like a totally different format you can't use any of your riots trek like what is it like trying to reinvent that kind of newness in presentation format tone it's been an amazing experience i mean i never thought that i wanted to do tv if you'd asked man four or five years ago about financial tv abucha and hours yana is how i used to consume media when i was in high school all yeah and i didn't think it was the wave of the future and hours a hardcore digital partisan as like no this is the future but i just tell you like how i ended up going to bloomberg enduring tv so um as like two thousand fourteen i'd been it be i almost six years and i was like starting to feel a little bit tired in now getting up early hey i had some moments b i was getting very big and established or i would like see someone in the elevator and i'm like oh did you start and they'd be like i've been here nine months and if i down like i'm really like losing iraq terrible manager efforts are like otto victory thoroughly bad when i'm still enjoying it yeah and then up bloomberg came along in a gesture angle who's not advice was at bloomberg and he came to me and he pitched me on this job which would be sort of half doing digital stuff and cohosted a tv show and i it it was a very difficult decision to go because i love beyond i still do but i started thing as i if i don't say yes to this then i can never say yes to anything again because when else am i gonna get a chance on life to cohost the tv shall even if it's terrible and i'm terrible added and it's canceled after three months and everyone thinks it's awful like for the rest of by.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Analysts report yeah all these analysts are in some ways reporting blind uh they don't have to sell anything that i have to get pages of your eyeballs but they also don't have that feedback of what our people actually interested in terms of what their writing well they did they get in some sense 'cause you they get calls from their trail rizon they gate activity but i mean that's more of the anecdotal like magazinestyle people loved my new yorker story rapel centrust like suhail mail it i love it dress seven postcards about it but i i think what you're getting at is totally right in the sense that if you used it instant data feedback smartly you do better stuff yeah can use that to do great stuff so it's not like oh we're just gonna go for traffic it'll be cheap but we need the traffic it's like if you really look at what's resonating you could say if i really digging here there's an audience for this and then i can hammer away at it and she could use it to really improve the core journalist one i think about it also in terms of like the present day um cryptocurrencies a great example of who's who's driving the ship here rally are the topics that make great narratives in that make people wanna click like cryptocurrencies in some ways becoming bigger business stories because they have a virology in their narrative which eventually as a feedback loop the drives the market like yeah i think crypt joe i think is really exactly as you describe ended funny it iran's we of sort of two thousand eight two thousand nine you know i use that metaphor the clearing in the woods yet nobody knows what the heck any of mrs yeah even the smartest people in the space they're just guessing yeah mean there's noone whose there's no crypto expert in the world maybe all the technical side like people who you know.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"It is what it is i will say furthermore geico you talked about you mentioned the evolution from when you start as an aggregate her we started aggregate until we did a lot more ridgeon all stuff i totally stand up our work uh probably did have some fake that retrospect i'm embarrassed of or that was stupid or i exhibited poor judgement but i'm proud of the body of work yet i wrote there and i think a lot of people who either are still there came through there are genuinely proud of the reporting they did and so i think at the end the trade off between sort of quality or editorial vision versed numbers tends not to be in the outcome is not that bad you know in an wall street you hear that phrase longterm greedy where you're not get us sort of try to make the most all the time on every single trade you on establish good report customers whatever and then a longterm pays off it was certainly that mentality i mean we sacrifice page views or whatever because there are things that don't help the brand and we have to make decisions were business insider so yup we can't do stories that have nothing to do with business or if we do we can't do them too often and so you you make sacrifices here and there and it just sort of you navigate it and i think it's uh a lot of people thought it was going to be the end of journalism that digital outlets turned out rats on thing else was the end of like that this traffic driven mindset was good destroy all this media you look at like all these publications that were pretty steady obsessed they've all done great stuff gawker did fantastic stephanie they had a culture that was very traffic driven buzzfeed as extraordinary journalism they're they've have a culture that very focused on growing and displaying the page view count on every story so i guess in theory there is a problem but in practice a lot of these players have done great stuff while i was curious almost the other direction which is so you brought up the.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Maja and and you know it became a much bigger thing that i could have ever guest a two thousand eight by a long shot and it turned out to open up all kinds of doors for me so in retrospect it was certainly it had that asymmetrical aspect of a start open at work very well but i didn't really think of myself as making some big bad i didn't have some other obvious thing i wasn't and i didn't have some really cushy job lined up heads the wall street journal or something that i said no too so i thought several times that we might not make it in the early years it was hard and the advertising market was terrible in two thousand nine two thousand ten because the economy so i certainly thought it was plausible that we're gonna all lose our jobs but i wasn't twoway what do you think in retrospect about guiding editorial policy in that kind of a start at bien like sinker swam like give the people what they want like the numbers don't yeah i kinda matter like it was certainly the dominant thing at the time and then there was this other through the owner magazine thing i am which as we know what the audience wants better than they do and we're not going to like subject us to use user testing like they test movies i haven't really ever talked to someone who that was a big part of their editorial vision yeah no we were late traffic was really important and that drove a lot of editorial decision so i'll say a few things door entities that launched around the same time that business insider did yep we are the founders had editors made a point of oh we are projecting an air of we're above this yeah and some of them even took shots at us and they're sort of snooty towards eyes and stuff like that they did for the most part did not thrive as well so it's great to sort of have that stance is also good to have a job at to work and to be able to hire more people and create jobs and stuff like that so i i.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Had to stock market one of my best friends in high school his dad had a small portfolio management company uh did a little sort of like i guess you've got intern worked for them but i never thought even a college or anything that that would be a career like i didn't even know what eight financial career was or anything i can at no people who were on wall street or who worked in hedge funds or investment bank says living in vermont of the time so i was always interested in the serve markets but it never occurred to me that like i would somehow end up having a career following dominant with him what was the first step towards that career it was between i graduated college at two thousand two never really didn't start writing about finance until two thousand eight really so i as i get a bunch of two random stuff i out my first job out of college was as a substitute teacher and austin independent school district i made sandwiches at a food coop and austin is like a hippie food cops i made like barbecue tofu and hamas sandwiches and some it's a though was like my first job but eventually like i was there for like a year and a half out of college and i started getting a little board yeah high texas it is very hot as asserted down and it just so happens that friend from a high school that i met who have worked for he was actually opening up a little office in new york to do research and i kind of begged him for a job yala need to get out of austin and this you seem like a chance to do a fresh start and you sort of after cajoling him and browbeating he hired me so i moved to a new york in two thousand four yeah for some reason i thought you came to new york to the newly musical theater so oh yeah so that's the other 'cause i memory once i was insulting musical theater and i was like oh wow wait i think joe's hindley's all i was i was wasn't extra wasn't offended because the most musicals are terrible so that's the other aspect so my.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Tweeting and reading blog post would ever actually worked out very well for covering market it's not really strange that something like financial reporting a something that drives the speed of media the reason why abel printed newspaper then put them on ships to other continents as ever and was trying to get financial information a beat faster than ever on allison that that's a really common theme but for you to end up a person wearing a suit talking about business on tv what was the first time you were like i should create some reporting or media about the world of wall street or finance i'll start off by saying it's weird every day still putting on a suit every day i put on a tie it never feels normal i always cut a laugh like this is ridiculous and if anyone sees old pictures of beyond the internet when i had a beard and really longhaired if entering some western sure is still weird to me like that's who i am you know i was are used to live in austin texas yeah people from austin texas i think there's a stereotype about how they look like slackers and how they dress and all of it i sort of i fit bed stereotype for awhile i'd say what bright austin the first list it was really simple i hated cold weather and i went down there for college and i had her cool things and i like country music is just a i just want to go there and i didn't have any idea like what i wanted to do i never thought i would get into journalism or anything like that when i was in high school uh my final years of high school were the peak years of the dotcom bubble and that was just really cool like everyone liz into the markets in those days you just a national phenomenon everyone seemed to be getting rich and i was no better than anyone else had sort of succumbing to the mania and just like oh this is a great deal world rugby red chin we're going to have peace because the cold war's over and there's nothing bad looming on the horizon at all and everything's going to be awesome i got.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Aw don't do that you just make it with mel champ you send out the email newsletter people jump straight from the melts him newsletter to a milch him page as guys have figured out onestopshop all right now here's aaron with joe weisenthal welcome joe weisenthal thank you you just got off the air yes are you i was like i feel like i was watching you live on tv wireless prepping for the show which was like one cup of coffee ago that's exactly correct i was a on tv on out bloomberg tv till five pm in the name mmediately gotten the subway and came right here to talk with you i want to talk about how you ended up tottering about the markets on tv think it's a fairly unusual path there but uh starting in the present like what do you do every day on tv so a big portion of my job i cohosted tv show on bloomberg tv it's the the daily market close show it's called what you miss yes i have a to host scarlett food and julia chatterly and for ninety minutes we talk about the key markets in economic stories of the day plus big picture stuff that may not necessarily be on the news that day so we might have academic economists on talking about their work on forecasting inflation aura asset valuation techniques or just other things we had a interesting conversation the other day about um the alaska general fund which is a sort of clause a universal basic income and so we like to mix in daily market moves and i am obsessed with to the minute moves i love watching bonds tick and stocks tick and currencies and all that stuff and i watch it minute by minute on my uh terminal i'm a bloomberg terminal but i also like having a big picture com.
"joe weisenthal" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"How many were episodes you think we need to do before we can turn it over to them gyll be ready series he's he's looking niedecker um this week on the show i talked to joe weisenthal who started off as one of the people who got business insider off the ground he is now on tv on bloomberg um he's really interesting person i can't really think of that many people like him um he's really obsessed with financial markets in the like manusha of everything that's happening all over weird business tes stories um but he's like a guy on tv with a suit and a tie talking but he is very much not that in first and so a really really interesting interview at from now mistaken he was also a journalist who was profiled by the new york times but there is a there is a profile of him in the new york times magazine that's kind of about how he like works all the time and gets up extremely early and like is the first person to like tweet out the jobs numbers when they earliest and that kind of thing that prevails actually a good if you feel like you're like reading some in for less new it's a good place to pick up uh this interview from i think one of my wife specimens highschools mary to joe he edwin that article came out i think it was like a little bit of a thing for her because the whole like point of the stories like this man does nothing but work literally nothing heaven for the morning and this has it all live ed they've for and i was a little bit of a weird experience i hear that a are that uh this show is brought to you as always by mail champ if you're getting up before everyone else to sound out an email newsletter for your project uh they are a great way to do they got all kinds of new tools over there and malcolm oh yeah man oh yeah a little marketing automation yahya you know about that and uh they have a thing now we can make landing pages i this is something i really like his it's actually weirdly hard to make a onepage internet site you know like i'll say you're selling a single product you have to go through the entire like rigor.