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Morning Joe 2/1/19 -- Cory Booker launches 2020 bid
Good morning and welcome to morning, Joe. It is Friday February first along with Joe William me, we have Donny Deutsch. Former aide to the George W Bush White House and state departments Elise. Jordan editor a commentary magazine and columnist at the New York Post John Doran says with us and the host of MSNBC's politics nation and president of the national action network, Reverend Al Sharpton is with us. We have a lot to get to this morning. President Trump calls the bipartisan talks on border security, quote, a waste of time. Two weeks from the deadline to reach a deal. The president also does damage control with his Intel chiefs blaming the reported riff on the media. Senate Republicans leader rebuke of President Trump over his plans to withdraw troops from Syria and Afghanistan as a new Pentagon report says ISIS could regain its territory territory in Syria within six two. Twelve months at seven AM, we expect another high profile democrat to officially enter the twenty twenty presidential race will bring you that breaking political news when it happens and at eight thirty AM, we will get the monthly jobs report, which could have an impact to the record thirty five day government shutdown. We'll talk about that. We'll get reports from the department of labor and the new York Stock Exchange also in the eight hour weeks pecked secretary of state and Mike Pompeo to announce the US will withdraw from a key nuclear arms treaty with Russia. Some experts worry that abandoning the agreement could lead to a new arms race. We'll go live to the State Department a lot, but we begin with President Trump labeling the bipartisan government funding and border security negotiations as a way to waste of time yesterday, the president told reporters that he would declare a national state of emergency. If there's no funding. For his border wall. Here is where the house speaker stand and where he stands exactly two weeks before the funding deadline. There's gonna be any more money in the end the legislation this replace for enhanced fencing Normandy fencing would work. Let them have that discussion could have done it differently about really I mean, I think what by having the shutdown. We've set the table for where we are. Now, if I didn't do the shutdown people would know that wouldn't understand the subject. Money. I would do I would do. This morning that there's not going to be a wall in the steel, but she did say she'd be open to other kinds of physical barriers would you accept that? No. Because if there's no wall doesn't work as she's just playing games. So if there's no wall, it doesn't work if you go to Tijuana, and you take down that wall. You will have so many people coming into our country that dancy Pelosi won't be begging for a wall. She'll be in for a wall. She will say Mr President, please, please give us a wall. I think dancy Pelosi is hurting our country very badly by doing what she's doing. And ultimately, I think I've set the table very nicely. I think people understand. Well, they understand Peter. They didn't know what was going on the southern border. Now, they know they had no idea the amount of crime the amount of drugs the amount of human trafficking, which can be stopped with a proper system. I've set the table. I've set the stage for doing what I'm going to do. We out. Yeah, I'm going to wait till the fifteenth. I think it's a waste of time. Yeah. I really say you set the table. He keeps saying that. He set this up perfectly. I mean, he doesn't realize it politically he's at the table. And he's whites for dinner. Tim himself is cooked the Republican party their numbers collapsed. Nobody believes him anymore. He's completely this is this is a disaster for the past three weeks. And here we go part two of it. And if you were a Republican on Capitol Hill, you've got to be sitting there thinking my God, how low is he going to drag this party? Joe I talked to some people on Capitol Hill Republicans yesterday their fierce that the president is taking this line. They know and they've now come out on Cameron said it again, and again shutdowns are bad. We do not want another shutdown, please Mr President stay in the sideline. Let us work with Nancy Pelosi. We can figure something out all read speaker Pelosi's, quote, again, this is pretty definitive. There's not going to be any wall money in the legislation that I I. For that. Democrats put out not only did not have any wall funding. It didn't mention a wall didn't mention a barrier of any kind of those speaker Pelosi did say we can do offense. If you want to call it a wall, go ahead. But there's not going to be wall money. President Trump tweeting Joe all morning yesterday. Go ahead. Yeah. Now, what's weird is again? He just goes back and forth. Republican on Capitol Hill. You've just got to be absolutely furious. Because now, suddenly he said, maybe it's not a wall, maybe it slapped a wall Zo wall. And maybe it's because he likes it wall. Rhymes with fall? It is the most it is continued bizarre behavior from. But the, but again, the group of people who end up losing in the end are the Republicans and how about the new rationale for the shutdown? We heard a few times yesterday for the president. It was an educational exercise. We shut down the government for thirty five days and kept paychecks away from federal employees because I want to educate people about the problem at the border. Now, they understand it. And now they'll be on my side. Unfortunately for him, the polls show just the opposite. He was tweeting about I think thirteen times yesterday before noon, he wrote a wall as a wall more troops being sent to the southern border. The wall is getting done one way or another warning of large caravans, and quote, all the evidence proof and caravans coming president also tweeted three separate caravans marching to our border. The numbers are tremendous to which congressman Eric swallow. Democrat responded, these caravans you see them in the room right now. Donny Pearson, president has learned exactly nothing thirty five days of the shutdown. He thinks it worked for him. You know, you listen to him this morning, and it's so easy to normalize this insanity. I if we just step back we this was not prison. Trump this -ociety else in one fell swoop said I had to educate people about this problem. So that's why I had to do this where in effect? We know statistically, it's the opposite that it's a twenty for immigration that there are no prayer rugs. There there are there are no duct tape women there. And then at the same time saying Nancy Pelosi, he's going to beg for a wall out of his mouth Nancy Pelosi is going to beg for this wall. This is the same day. I want to get to this later that he completely contradicts intelligent heads on on North Korea on ISIS, and and and the Senate rebuked him on f ghanistan and Syria, and so an aid for Saudi Arabia and their water Yemen. He's in an alternate reality. He's insane. I mean, we. About it. Because it is so unsettling, but if we were objective from this. We had not lived through twenty five months of it. You would say I'm not I'm not overstating these earth. He's out of his mind. I mean, he's literally out of his mind. And so it's it's absurd. Yeah. So river Nellie you like Donny like Meco like myself. We've all known Donald Trump for a long time, you probably not him longer than most of us. Do you recognize the guy even if even if there were things about him before that you felt horrid do you recognize the guy that you knew for twenty years sitting in these pictures rambling around talking and circles, it makes no sense? He just got handed the worst political defeat that any Republican presents been handed since since Watergate. And then he does his shutdown which destroys his poll numbers, even more. And here he is again just going in this bizarre loop. No, he he's actually deteriorated because we always knew he was a salesman. He would as Michael Bloomberg said play the conman most of his career, but now you've got two ways bizarre to actually when the Republicans are trying to blame the Democrats for the shutdown. He snatches ownership back yesterday. But saying no, I did it. So we. Could teach American public issue. So the whole argument that this was the Democrats being inflexible caused the shutdown. He just ripped up in shreds, which he would have read better than that twenty years ago. But the second part is the insensitively when he would meet with us. He would Fain like he cared a famed like he had some kind of sensitivity to say I reset the table. Would he literally took food off of federal workers tables is is really adding insult to injury here. I can't believe he even discuss a table when you're talking about federal workers that were literally out pawning the valuable so they could put food on the table. This is not even a conmmand kind of way of operating. His amended has lost. Yeah. I mean, everything he does jumping doors is self destructive. I mean, he's he keeps he keeps doing things at end up only hurting himself only hurting the Republican party. And at some point you do wonder in Wendo enough, Republican senators say, you know, what? Before our Bruegel rating goes down to fourteen percent mission co over and and have an intervention, but we we did actually see that on the Senate floor yesterday. I guess that was the start speaking out against is insane policies in Syria and Afghantistan. Okay. So I'm going to make a quick case for what Trump is doing not that. I'm a supporter of it. But you guys are talking about the shutdown and he's moving beyond the shutdown. What he setting the table for him. What he is talking about something table for his the declaration of the national emergency that will allow him to shift money over to at least make a cause medic show of building the wall. It is possible that Nancy Pelosi is overplaying her hand, which is to say in December. She agreed. They all greed to a five point seven billion dollar outlay for the wall. He shuts the government down because he decides it's not enough. He loses the shutdown and now she is playing Michael Corleone. Godfather. Partout saying to him. Here's my offer nothing and you'll swallow it, and I will humiliate you. Well, okay. That's an interesting political strategy. But as the year goes by and I'm not sure that the public thinks the wall is insane. That may be that it's not valuable or it's not worth it worth. But she is in fact, not negotiating with him on the wall. She's saying zero zip zilch nothing, and that is a change in her opinion from December. Now, I don't think that that necessarily means that she's going to lose this again. But it does allow him to make the claim that Democrats are not serious but for security, so I have to clear the national emergency. Now, John nobody's saying nobody is saying that any wall is insane. He did say that more right? She had was that was an honest era. Donald Trump's view of a huge wall from seat assign shining sea is not only immoral more importantly, it's stupid and it's ineffective. And if you talked to anybody on the border, they will tell you that it is stupid and it's ineffective. But but but not only are. But let's not let's not pretend here John that that poor for Donald Trump is just trying to find somebody that will negotiate with him in good faith. You know, they tried to go with him in good faith a year ago. He said around the table said the Dianne Feinstein, you guys you guys figure this out all sign whatever you figure out then they came up with a plan that included a wall and DACA. Then Stephen Miller sitting now we can't have this plan. Then they sent the vice president to the hill. And the vice president said, I'll tell you why you say one point seven we say five point seven, let's go to point five. Five he had a thorny to do that. Then the president takes that back at some point you go, you know, what fool me once? Shame on you. Connel's George W Bush would say don't fool again. That's where I think Mitch McConnell did something interesting with the searing Afghantistan resolution because if you think that that is happening, and I selection that is foolish. Trump screwed McConnell in December terribly right? And jeff. He's the Democrats on immigration reform. And he's done it repeatedly. Why do you deal with that guy you go? You know, what I'm not dealing with you. And you do this to go. I'm not dealing with you Donald Trump, what talk to Mitch McConnell, you stay out of the way. 'cause you've lied to me repeatedly. Like, all ios. I'm not wasting my time with you the presently United States. That's the problem. It doesn't say. Say. Who can't see sign? He has to sign legislation. I mean, I wish. Which is why now Elise? It is between Mitch McConnell and Z Pelosi and Mitch McConnell knows that and John thune knows that and the Republicans in the Senate no that because Donald Trump has acted so irrationally for so long. Well, I guess my response to what John was talking about would be that you can argue politically that Donald Trump looks like he is trying to shape, whereas the Democrats aren't so that's you're saying that can be Trump's argument now, but his actual what he's laying the groundwork for to declare a state of emergency because of this dire threat on the border. I allowing three weeks, and then you blaming it on politics as the reason not to declare national emergency while he might actually had this the wordy expensive thority of the executive how he weakened his legal position. Like, he always does simply by opening his mouth. But here again. Yeah. Again, here's the day traitor, and he's actually get Lindsey Graham and well at the end of the day, Lindsay Graham. Yeah. But he was just wandering around in an ideological keel. Wondering around in circles just going on my name. Is it doing? Hello. Where am I he's you have the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee that is in courage? Ing Donald Trump do unconstitutionally seized power. From the legislative branch. Yeah. How that he does not have? So hear me again is Donald Trump the day. Trader Donald Trump the guy that ends up embarrassing? Mitch mcconnell. Donald Trump the guy that ends up embarrassing John thune, Donald Trump, the guy that ends up embarrassing. The Senate Republicans who actually are still serious who actually still Cory Gardner who might actually like to win and twenty twenty. He's going to declare this emergency. The supreme court is going to overturn it is unconstitutional in because you take everything that Donald Trump is said, yeah, take everything that Donald Trump is done. You take the outlays of money over the last two years, you take that when the Republicans control of congress, you take the statistics of the border crossings over the past fifteen years, you take the drug drugs flowing into United States coming through ninety percent through legal ports of entry. This brain court will look at this and laugh and probably overturn it eight to one nine to nothing, and guess what? Then he Lindsey Graham, look like people really who words Ryan to seize. Illicit control for the executive branch by Donald Trump, then all a losing game. Well, and then there's this which when you think about the threat assessment hearing where the Intel chiefs put out there. They're got information on what are the biggest threats facing this nation? The Trump administration is planning another surge in the number of US troops, wait for it. Wait for it stationed along the southern border with Mexico, something that was not mentioned at all during that hearing. That's according to the House Armed Services committee chairman Adam Smith who revealed the uptake uptick in a letter to acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan, according to Smith more than thirty five hundred troops will be sent to the border bringing the number of active duty troops stationed there to five thousand defense officials have previously said more troops would be heading to the border. Starting in the middle of this month to build and reinforce about one hundred sixty miles of barb to or razor wire just one more thing really quick at the same time. We've also learned that the US border patrol agents made the largest fennel drug bust in that agency's history over the weekend. Right. Right. Okay. So it happened though at an era Zona port of entry officers found nearly six hundred and fifty pounds of legal drugs inside a tractor trailer being driven into the US by Mexican national. Okay. Willy two point what will handle the second story. I good for them. Great job. But what is approved? They all say they need more funding at legal towards of rate. They don't need gold wall with with Trump brand across the top of it. They need more money at these legal ports of entry to stop where the real drugs come into the United States that kill Americans. And then going back again to the story about sending. The border more troops are going to be in the border. It's nuts. Then in Syria an issue that every one of our Intel chiefs, and now the Pentagon is saying could lead to ISIS resurging and once again rebuilding their caliphat in Syria within the next six months. We'll first of all that seizure at the boy was huge. Those drugs have killed a lot of people almost thirty thousand people died fennel overdoses in this country last year. So that is a great job there. It did come through a port of entry. That's where all the research and analysis shows most ninety percent of those coming in through random places along the border. But to your other point you put those two stories side-by-side more troops thirty five hundred more troops data the Mexico border. The president wants the two thousand troops that we have in Syria out of there. There's something wrong with that when our threat assessment talks explicitly about Syria being the place where I could reconstitute itself and saying nothing. About the problem along the border. Yeah. Still ahead. We just mentioned that we're going to give a live report from the Pentagon on that warning that withdrawing from Syria could have ISIS regaining control of Syria within a year plus much more from that wide ranging New York Times interview, including why he claims the presidency is quote, one of the greatest losers of all time. But first, here's Bill Karen's. Check on the forecast Bill. Good morning to you. Joe emeka? We're watching that weather whiplash. Full swing temperatures of rebounded dramatically in the mid west. But it's still cold in areas of the northeast. We still have wind chill advisories even few wind chill warnings out there. Some of the coldest spots are in upstate New York negative thirteen wind chill and being where negative aid in Burlington. So it's not exactly warm in the Great Lakes. It's just not historically cold right now, we're at negative eight wind chill in Chicago. Remember two days ago is negative fifty to even Minneapolis that negative thirteen a lot better. So a lot of warnings have been drug and here comes the big warm up. So for today. It begins Texas. Colorado all the way into Montana. We're going to be fifty in Montana today that doesn't happen often. In the middle of the winter north Platte fifty nine notice, we're so chilly Chicago to New York, but this weekend, the warm Pacific air continues to surge in Saint Louis you from negative six the other day to sixty degrees on Saturday. Even Minneapolis will be thirty six on Sunday that warm spreads all the way to the east DC fifty five. There's a chance that New York City could be sixty on Tuesday. The only trouble will some weather over the weekend. A big storm coming into California late tonight all day, Saturday could get as much as four to seven inches of rain in southern California in the mountains, and that's going to mean mudslides into briefly possibly in those areas that had those big fires in the fall, Washington. DC little bit of light snow for your early this morning about a half an inch careful Dr especially up around Baltimore. We could see as much of an inch. All right, Donny. So your your brand expert you've worked for some of the largest corporations in America. I I'm trying to get my arms around this not. To understand on Trump because I under- I understand that there you can't you can't place logic to what he does. I've tried to understand Donald Trump's board of directors that being we'll call them, the Republican senators and the Republican leaders in the house who sit and they watch this man, they're their CEO. Let's just put it in format that you're you're used to a CEO who who in November had the worship lacking and the history Republicans had the worship lacking ever if you look at vote total in the history of America for any midterm election. They lost by more than any other party ever. They lost more seats than any time since Watergate, then this CEO decides he's going to double down on that strategy. And let's remember this strategy. Remember, the strategy going into that? Action was the fake caravans the fake border crisis. The fake need to send troops down to the border. Right. It failed. Historically, this is like from Coca-Cola new codes. Now, we're moving from new coke. It would be as if the board of directors in Atlanta, Georgia for Coca-Cola said and forgive me for saying this this morning. Hey, you know, what new coq didn't work? So we're going to add cat urine to. No, no, it's bad bad for Republicans. And so he's. No hell. Takeover talk about that. This. So it's it's ever been in history. The worst law since water gang. He's doubling down on the strategy. And now is and this is where can't and come. He's going my. He's going to continue going to the United States constitution. Right. And he's going to have the supreme court most likely overturn his decision unanimously. This is a board of directors that. I mean, they got to step in to save themselves. It's not you. Go ahead. It gives you enough to work with that. I can't help you really you kind of stole my new coq analogy because that is perfect. It's where I was going with sesame base. Well, I'm gonna get. Special coke with special cat. You're already got the ad on my head. Okay. I went to a now not gonna hundred okay, guys. Here's my pitch. I know the wall, I know the new coq didn't work this time. What I wanna bring in fluffy. Okay, fluffy when you mix fluffy and pluck his urine. That's good. A work is trust me. And that is about where we ought to be like bringing back wall now and say, okay, not only going to have the wall. We're gonna broader the wall that's gonna make the difference. Joe? I go back, and I it seems like a thin response. And it seems like a cheap shot, and it seems you got nothing else to say he's insane. There's no other. We sit here as five people here to people there. There are four smart people here there are two smart people and try and analyze it. And explain it. And by the hold on Danni. Again, I bring up an important point. You've known him for several decades Willie Meakin I've nine for decade Reverend AL's ninety for a couple of decades river Nel said everybody always knew he was a kind man. But we also knew that he was you know, Reverend now we also knew that when he made decisions they were decisions that were always based to help him. It was always about helping Donald Trump. Okay. Decisions that he's making. And that he is made. I I would suggest the best two years ourselves destructive politically, it is equivalent of self harm this. Why say Joe he's lost it because where is the in game for Donald Trump, would you know, we used to him manipulating maneuvering for his own self interest. But he when I lost it. I don't mean they should bring the white jackets it yet. Even though I do wonder whether he really sees caravans villa tonight in the residence at the White House. But I am saying there's no endgame there for him because he's not winning and he's deluding himself that he's winning politically while people are suffering. So even if you excuse his insensitively to the suffering of people, which no president of the United States should do. I don't even see where he thinks he's helping to build to brand of the business or whatever. Oh, he is seeking for Donald Trump. That's what I'm saying. He's lost it because he's I mean when you sitting around trying to put perfume on your in something. Missing here. Joe started to fame. Killing the Republican party forget self-destruction with nets out. He's destroying the party period. I just want to point out before move on Joe that as you are in your feline analogy, this is for our viewers off camera. The right Reverend Al Sharpton whispered a prayer for you, watch them. All right. Let's let's pray together. Often, you just don't know. Okay. John quick point. You know, Joe you said he had a terrible member. Right. That sixty two million votes cast, four Democrats, which means that Democrats only need four or five more mill four six four five six million more boats right to wait and twenty twenty which means here's the rational. Here's the rationale. He had one playbook. He no one thought he could win and twenty sixteen and he won. And he all he has to go on from now to twenty twenty is if I gen the base if I stir up conservative voters, and you know, Weitz who haven't graduated from high school and all of this. Maybe I can draw inside straight and win again. Because I he doesn't this is not his field, and he did something unprecedented. And what goes it his head? When things are bad is he says? I did this knowing thought I could I'm just going to keep doing it. And then maybe it'll work again because I don't know what this is. So John this is actually in your I said at time and again the greatest danger for any president entering the White House on that first day, not just as president. But every president you said it of Barack Obama actually you could say Jimmy Carter when all you here for two years three years five years is that you can never be elected president of the United States Jimmy Carter. You can't be elected president of the United States. You're a peanut farmer. Barack Obama your middle name Hussein you can never be Donald Trump. You're as any it. You're a reality TV host. And then you walk through those gates, and you were right. And the rest of the world was wrong. Then you are right, John. There are times often where you go back and you spend the next several years. Thank. Being on this mortis guy in this room. I'm the president. They're not all these smart guys. All these smart women told me for five years. I had no chance to ever be elected president United States where they they're outside. The gates. I'm inside the gates. So I do think that may be an explanation to to some degree. But you look at Bill Clinton who nobody said Bill Clinton could win. He gets thrashed and ninety four what did he do? He immediately responded and figured out how to keep Republicans back their hills for the next several years that is possibly the most maybe likely scenario. There's also you didn't wanna win you one. And you find yourself cornered by some one Vladimir Putin and everything you do is dictated from abroad could be it's only a thought we're gonna get to that Pentagon report after a quick break. We'll be right back. Now to that. New Pentagon report that details the consequences of President Trump's plan. Withdrawal of US troops from Syria. According to to US officials familiar with the draft of that report without continued military pressure. Isis could regain its territory in Syria within six to twelve months. In addition ISIS is intent on reconstituting, physical caliphate. So just what the terror group previously had in Mosul Iraq and in Raka, Syria. Let's bring in NBC news national security and military reporter Courtney Kuby according to good morning. It's good to see this. Of course, is why Defense Secretary Mattis resigned, effectively he didn't say explicitly. But that was the word inside that he could not stand by and watch this withdrawal from Syria, the president announced it just over a month ago. Now with this new report, what are the odds that President Trump changes mind, very low? If at all, I mean, I think right now what they're looking for the Syria. Withdrawal is it's going to be over. The course of the next few months, right? If everything continues to pay. Face all US troops will be out by mid spring. Or so with the last of the troops leaving from the south of garrison called tante, which is right along the border with near the border with Jordan, what's important about this report. It's not surprising that ISIS would try to reconstitute. They started out as a grill organization. They're clearly they've moved back into that place. We heard that in the worldwide threat assessment this week defense officials have been warning about that for some time that they'll likely go underground and then try to research, but what's particularly interesting here is that this report says that without continued pressure. So that would be pressure from the US military from coalition from Syrian democratic forces without that pressure there areas that are ungoverned in Syria and in Iraq, where the government's the Syrian government and the Iraqi government just won't be able to handle an ISIS resurgence. They won't have the resources or really the the interest in stopping them from retaking ground there and essentially. Building back some sort of a caliphate not in the level that we saw in Mosul Iraq and the early days when they were able to overtake these large towns, but being able to regain territory in and of itself would be pretty amazing, especially if they can do it in a matter of months Willie coordinator lease here, what are hearing from Pentagon sources and planners about the ability to prosecute the war on ISIS in Syria from Iraq. Well, very little right now, they're they're not talking a lot about the specifics of any kind of withdrawal. And then what would happen after the US troops? Leave one thing that we we've seen as the I like to call them the movers. You know, the additional US troops have moved into Syria to start taking out a quick moment that will lead to US troops leaving as well. So the number of troops in series actually up to three thousand which is the highest number we've ever seen or known about at least they haven't always been transparent with the total force there. But that's the highest level that we've seen since US troops. Went into their went into Syria several years ago. The big question now is will the US continue some sort of an air presence there after troops are gone on the ground. That's been a huge part of this campaign is the US and the coalition air pressure against ISIS the Syrian democratic forces, which is a largely Kurdish fighting force on the ground. Well, they're the ones who are really pushing their slogging out the miles there on the ground in Syria. They really are reliant on on a US air presence to help them. Breakway to help them four Japan against ISIS especial in the especially in these last few miles ISIS really down to this tiny little triangle in the middle Euphrates river valley of land that they're holding. But they're really reliant on US air power. What would be hard is after there's any if there's no US presence on the ground there. It really opens the US to a lot of liability to conduct airstrikes, if they're relying on a partner force on the ground to call them in just in the last three days of president has heard that ISIS is a threat from the heads of the Intel agencies now from this Pentagon report and from vote in the Senate led by Mitch McConnell, sixty two twenty three says ISIS remains of threat in Syrian Afghantistan. And will if we withdraw our troops from their NBC's, Courtney Kuby, thank you as always good talking to you and Johnny now, national political reporter for axios. Jonathan swan Jonathan good morning. You're looking at Tuesday's state of the union address. What's the president going to focus on when he finally gets up there after? Of a delay? Well, President Trump his advisors have been telling people that the speech will be uplifting. But of course, that is in the eye of the beholder. I don't know. This is going to be American cottage of January twenty seventeen version of uplifting. Or a new version? I expected he'll pick a big of a border security because that has been the issue that he's privately most animated oversee he's publicly projecting that but over the past week Trump has been in his phone calls in the morning and not time with advisers and friends he's been asking them how they think the government shutdown is playing for him politically. And he's also been asking them what he should do about Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. And of course, those three states that delivered in the presidency in two thousand sixteen but they turned on him in twenty eight. So I wouldn't be surprised if the calibrating messages to try and win back those voters that they lost to go to ask you about another note you've as. Looking at the concerns about twenty twenty for President Trump as you talk to his friends as we know he gets on the phone and talks to people outside the White House. Apparently, they're telling that Joe Biden poses the biggest threat to his presidency. Trump's advises his political advisors and other advisers that he seeks political advice from have long thought that Joe Biden would be the most challenging because they see Biden as as the candidate that is most likely to take from Trump those rust belt voters that he wanted twenty sixteen Trump himself doesn't actually whenever I read something that Trump is worried about a certain candidate. It doesn't quite ring true to my own reporting. Because Trump even privately has the same bluster that he does publicly he never in any of my reporting people who have never said to me that he's actually expressed concern or awareness that he has a vulnerability just noted where if that ever happened happened it may have happened. But just not my requ. Voting by the way, it looks like the president's going to get another big name democratic challenger and the twenty twenty race this morning. We'll tell you about that coming up Jonathan swan axios. Thanks so much Jonathan head did rod Rosenstein tell Donald Trump's attorneys that the president is not a target in the Muller probe of the president's lay. This claims about the rush investigation when morning Joe comes right back. Brings I am a candidate for the presidency of the United States. I tend to see Spence for truth. I'm sure you have been disappointed as I have been by the retreat from truth to sudden change in policy positions on the part of even are more courageous candidates. Then they sense to slightest possibility of victory they feel the need to curry favor of special interest groups that continue to impoverish our lives and distort our policies. But I do not I am responsible only to myself and to the people working my candidacy spent surely them, the first African American woman elected to congress talking about her store at nineteen seventy two presidential campaign critic said she wouldn't last six weeks. She ended up taking one hundred fifty two delegates to the democratic convention Chisholm served in the house from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen Eighty-three where she was a fierce advocate for women, whom she. Continues to inspire with lawmakers like Kamla Harris and Alexandria, akeso Cortes paying tribute to her Chisholm died in two thousand five at the age of eighty next year. The city of New York will erect a statue in her honor near where she grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and Reverend now Shirley Chisholm was the person that you chose to speak about on this first day of black history month, tell us why. Well, I think that Shirley Chisholm embodies a lot of what we're seeing on the political landscape today. She was the first African American woman to run for president the first African American woman elected in the congress. I was honored. I was seventeen years old, and I was one of the youth organizers for presidential campaign. What people don't understand is? She not only fought against the of the. The anti woman Sex's monogamous view in the broader society. She forwarded among black politicians that would not support. A because they say, I'm not supporting the woman, and they want George McGovern against it. In the primaries. She was very very determined for dignified team was unbought an unbiased, and that is why I think she has earned a place in history. It should in many ways raise because she taught women she taught blacks she taught the nation that you do not bow a coward to people that look down upon you because of your sex or because of your race. Shirley, Chisholm told us to to know out value, even before corroded, but surely said. As yet. Another woman inspired by Shirley Chisholm. Let's talk about another woman last week. It was inspired by Shirley Chisholm and her launch for the presence. Tom Lehrer us, right? Just right. She'd shows the anniversary the fortieth that averse to the day of Shirley Chisholm that now segment to announce that she was going to run. And I think that I could only think that surely as well as I got to know MRIs what we would call it because I was a kid. Was looking down proud and look at where coming hours having twenty thousand people at her announcement of all races. She has picked up that mantle and going forward where goes how far it goes. I don't know. But it is only a confirmation of that seed that Shirley Chisolm planted in nineteen seventy two is still growing. And no one is laughing. No one is shunning her Shirley Chisholm took the hits. Like Jackie Robinson whose hundred birthday was yesterday. Shirley was the Jackie Robinson of women black women. And now we're going to see if camera ariza's is Willie Mays Hank Aaron. John door. It's I I remember her as a child growing up in New York City. I'm reminded of the fact that. There were a lot of really interesting urban politicians in the seventies who did not conform to standard issue labels and positions. And Shirley Chisholm was one of these people who transcended I mean, while she was deep very much Representative of both her gender and Jerez. She was a formidable person in her own right at somebody without needing them. She was smart. She was incredibly sort of focused when she when she made these appearances that I saw on TV in New York, and and there were urban city politicians all over the country in the seventies. Who had this quality like they weren't? You just didn't put them in a box and say, well, she's for this group. And he's for that group. They were they were more interesting than that. Something that our politics lacks. Now people see much more homogenized than they did them. I read we talked in our last block that axios is reporting the President Trump is most concerned, or at least visor telling him he should be most concerned about Joe Biden. But you've brought up comma Harris may here from another big candidate sometime today. Cory Booker reportedly getting into the race. Elizabeth Warren looking at it. We have all these people, and they're all calling you before they get into the race in asking for your advice. What are you telling them about running against Donald Trump? I think that what they have to do is. I the first thing I ask all of them as why do you want to be president don't go by your political strategy? Go buy your vision you've have to give America of vision. Which is the opposite of what Trump is doing. Don't try to out Trump Trump give us a vision. Give us something to drive toward to bring us out of this kind of of atmosphere that we're in now where people are going. Day by day wondering what the country stands for and whether we're going to survive it. And that's the advice. I give them Joe Biden spoke at our national action that we're model king breakfast last week. I think he may run, but I think whoever gives the country of vision because this president has not been able to do you have a president that noon represents one thing at six o'clock represents the opposite. The bible says where the people perished without a vision. We have no vision visionary is going to win the White House. And it can't just be. I'm not Donald Trump is what you can't be anti Trump. Don't tell me what your guest jemmy what you saw. And tell me how I can get there. John dorrance. Thank you very much for being on this morning. Great conversation rubber now up. We have breaking political news Senator. Cory Booker of New Jersey is entering the growing twenty twenty democratic primary field. I believe that we can build a country where no one is forgotten. No one is left behind parents can put food on the table for their good paying jobs with good benefits and every neighborhood or criminal Justice system, keeps us safe instead of shuffling, more children into cages and coffins where we see the faces of our meters on television and feel cry not Shane it is not a matter of can we it's a matter of do. We have the collective will the American will. I believe we do together we will Shanna or common pain back into our common purpose together. America, we will rock. Raw? On Cory Booker. And I'm running for president of the United States of America. So he's in bullying. No, exploratory committee, no know, dipping your Toan. He's fully in Joe listening tour. No, nothing. Cory Booker running for president and twenty twenty Reverend Al. He's called you and asked you your thoughts. Why don't you give us give the rest of us? Your thoughts about what we should be looking for. As Corey Booker becomes the four hundred seventy third person decide they're going to sake, the democratic nomination present twenty twenty very valuable valuable nomination. Because I think most would suggest right now that whoever wins that wins the presidency. I think that he should not be on decimated. Corey I've known Corey came up fought his way into being a Rhodes scholar. Good went to Oxford. When no one thought he could do that given his background. He came in. When he returned to the states. He went and lived in norc lived in the projects ran for the city council. One ran for mayor against the status oughta. In the machine shop James who beat him. He came back again and beat the opponents became there and kept living in the project still to this day. So he has a story to tell of how he fought from the bottom and kept going. He knows the people on the ground. I think he's going to be a very interesting candidate. He's very braver charismatic. He's hard working not think is going to be a real battle. And I think that that is what the democrat party is going to need. Yeah. Gene. Gene Robinson for most of your professional career in life. Most of my professional career in life, most of L sharpens professional career in life running for president was a white man's game. And it was a big it was a big news story. It was a blurring news story. Let's have forty eight a wallman thinking about running for president. You just might win. A black man is talking about running for president. But of course, he could never win. Well, we start twenty twenty. With Elizabeth Warren with Kamla Harris with Cory Booker and actually. It seems pretty darn normal. You look it, of course, cures in Jila brand Hooghly Castro tolsey Gabbard. This is. Quite quite a changing landscape for America. And for American politics. It sure is I mean, you know, our president so far except Barack Obama had been white men. White men are definitely in the minority of the canned democratic candidates who announced so far I'll four hundred seventy three of them. You know, it'll be four hundred seventy four soon, you know, somebody else will jump in. It's it's it's it's it's a reflection of the changing country that the changing Democratic Party and the question for Cory Booker. I think in he'll go about defining. It is what lane is he going to be in? We have an increasingly crowded progressive lane in the democratic field. So far there there's who might jump in like Joe Biden who would occupy different lane. It's going to be a fascinating and. We're gonna have to staff up just just to cover just to keep track of the democratic candidates. But it's gonna be fascinating. Let them let them all fight it out. You know, I think it's I think it's good for the party. And it'll be a good definition moment. I think for the Democratic Party as it looks toward what? And you're right off to be victory rather. I think most Democrats agree. Exactly what gene Robinson said at the end there, which is that it's time to have a real fight for the nomination. Let's all get out there put our ideas out there and see who's worked best as a reaction to what happened last time where he had a coronation of Hillary Clinton without a conversation about who the candidates should be except for Bernie Sanders. But the question that gene pose is an interesting one, which is yes, it's good to have all these people in. But if you're Cory Booker, comma, Harris, Elizabeth Warren, how do you separate yourself and the other friendly in the Senate that shares up a lot of the same core ideas? How do you make yourself different than the gene raises a good question? The answer is. Is that you'd have to be authentic pot of what people are looking for as often Tissot? So you can't choose lane. You have to be what lane you already have been in. Otherwise, they're going to go in your background and say that's not who you really are. And I think that people that are running going to be defined by who they been not by how they cast themselves. Now. I mean, I talked to kids to today back in the day dining, I can talk to young people and tell them things they will Google you're talking to say that's not what you said fifty years ago revenue you in a world now where you're going to have to be finnick and represent what it is. So Corey can't choose lane. He's gonna have to go hard drive on the lane. He's always been same with cameras same Liz work, and that's the person that can win as the person they are. And that's the only way you're going to be speaking. Speaking of person is interesting when you when I looked at. Corey's tape to me that was just one on one. I mean, that's an issue that I think that a lot of Democrats that just kind of apple pie. And that's for the people. I think in rebel. I'm going to push back a little something you said in the earlier segment that it's about a vision, actually, Donald Trump had a very clear vision. And he's been very consistent make America white again. And we know the hate that he plays on. And I actually don't think it's going to be about vision. But I think it's going to be about strength and comfort food the personal brand not necessarily vote on issues. They and I think right now, you're going to need to str- why love about buying you going to need the strength. But you're also going to need comfort. I took a chance on those. And Biden is both of them is one other person that I would blow the whole field up that nobody talks about she's ever interested. Michelle Obama, can you imagine let me show up on that? Okay. Well, other than her. I think the strength and the comfort is Joe Biden, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris is vice president. Well, that would be a great ticket. I don't think Michelle Obama's it. But I think Biden I think any combination would be good. But they I have got to sell people agree with you on the accord, I still want vision. Even if I have a strong person, I want to know where they're going to bring me that was struck. How vague that announcing his first run, obviously. Right. But this is a politician with very fascinating personal story. Not at all reflected in in any way. And that video I mean Trump's announcement for president in June. Twentieth. Fifteen hate it or love it had a lot more policy content than that announcement new exactly with Donald Trump was going to run on. And he did. And now he governed on it. I can't really tell from this video what has differentiation is what is going to run on. What is being issues? He's sorry me. Corey Senator Booker just gonna meet with reporters this morning to. So we make hear more. That's just the first for that great point that will be the key. What is his message? And I didn't have a problem with video. Thought it was it was nice. And it was we we only showed you a short aversion of it. So you guys can go online and take a look at the long version. But I think the bigger issue is watching him come face to face with the porters answering questions as to what his message would be a lease. I have my gut is that this is another great add into a long list of really interesting candidates who have stories that hopefully with Corey as well matched their message, which we didn't have last time where we didn't have as many, and we had a coronation last time and our candidate, I speak for the Democrats. I know you don't did not have a message. I'm looking at all those folks, and I see story and message to most every face we just put up well, and you're going to have an election primary process where the grassroots voters are going to decide who prevails in that. Indeed. As you noted was the problem Lasco around. Also would add that I think that competencies going to be a very important trait. That voters are judging in this election, especially in the aftermath of the belong government shutdown in American history. They Donald Trump really manage to have a lot of success claiming that he was competent. But is his administration has shown anything. But and that they are unable to execute the very basics in running the government and running a foreign policy, quite frankly. So I think that looking at the track record of leadership, and of what these various candidates have actually been able to do and how they have affected change is going to be very important. Well, and also Joe I think leading into the next election foreign policy what each candidate's vision is what their track record and abilities are competency on. This is going to be so important because I don't even think we can see some of the damage at many levels that. Has been done to our State Department and to our foreign policy message around the world, and we're going to need someone in there. Who knows what he or she is doing? I mean to me, and I pray to God, Reverend Al to the people that are going to be deciding who is an ex president of the United States, competency matters. Yes. I like you. I want the vision because without vision that people are lost. I don't want to fancy slogan. I don't wanna guy or a woman who things one thing in the morning. And then says something else the next day. But but we have for some time. We've been electing leaders that really didn't know how Washington DC worked that really didn't know about the give and take that weren't up to the give and take didn't understand what. Well, let's just say what Bill Clinton than what LBJ and what Ronald Reagan understood it. Sometimes you had to roll up your sleeves. You had to get dirty, and you had to talk to people who weren't on your side you had to. Learn how to count the votes in. So vision is important, but I just wanted to follow up in have you underline it because I know, you know, it as well as anybody we need somebody that knows how to make Washington DC work. Again. No doubt about it division is the first step. But if you cannot execute the vision and manage the government while you moving toward that you will not achieve anything anyway. And you will only build up to a big letdown. You know, the bible even says that fair without works is dead thing to works. Requires someone that knows how to work. So I think people are going to look for the balance of someone that can give them hope give them a vision. But that has the managerial skills and track record that we know they know how to make Washington function for them. I wanna know you committed to me, but that you can deliver for me. Don't just make me feel good. Make me. Do good be good and be better. And we have not seen that in this administration. We don't need a continuation of that on the left. Having a leftist version of progressive version of incompetence is not progress that doesn't work and it confiscatory. You you bring up a really good point too. Just generalities aren't gonna work this year just being against Donald Trump's not gonna work this year. You have to have a vision, you need to tell people where you're gonna go. And I think it's really interesting. There's almost like a sliding scale. If you look at the top four or five people that are in the race right now. If you look at the senators who are in the race right now, you've got Elizabeth Warren. We know what she believes in. We know where she stands. She's lived her life fighting that fight for a long time Kamla Harris with her announcement. She made it very clear who she was what she stood for their obviously going to be be battles for based on what she did attorney general. That was not as progressivism. Sure. A lot of Democrats would have wanted her to be and also. You know, let's not a Cory Booker and Kirsten gillibrand, and you can take that down. We've seen it enough. Thank you. So on Cory Booker. You know, Corey we're not exactly sure exactly sure where he stands we've we've kit it around at times about him running out of burning buildings with a kitten in one hand and tweeting about the kitten. With his phone in the other hand, he's not as defined and then you take someone like kissing Jila brand. I think they're going to be it's going to be rocky road. She can certainly get past it. But it's gonna be rocky road because she made the transfer transformation from a conservative democrat in Dutchess county, New York to more progressive democratic Senator representing the entire state will Joe it's funny how the Trump era has kind of sort of washed away all sins of the past for Democrats are all against him. But it's it's factual describe Kristen gillibrand as a former tobacco lawyer who had an air rating from the NRA flop to account for that Cory Booker was a guy who defended Wall Street and private equity in very harsh terms that some Democrats are gonna remember he was also very close to Facebook with this philanthropy in Newark. So I think we're going to see as we get past the nice part of the primary. As candidates come out and had to Frenchie eight kind of less of the happy, talk and more differentiation. And of course, obviously, I'm sure Senator Booker has a binder full of politics proposals. That will come out in the coming weeks and months joke, and I just jumping for second. I think the most critical thing, and if you think about the seventy eight percent swing voters in the suburbs of of Virginia and the suburbs of Pennsylvania. I think to them the emotional decision is gonna come down to one rational thought who's gonna beat Trump? And I think that's the mechanism and I keep coming back to buy and we can talk all we want about vision. We all talk about policy and issues what what's going to that is the driving force. Gotta get gotta get that off the table. And I think that that kind of Trump's no put attendant eighty other logical discussion, and I think that is that litmus test right there, and that's why think Biden so far again, you know, what though. I think what I wonder about Joe Biden. And I said it about Hillary Clinton when she was at sixty percent and people who hate me and hate me right now because they were such Hillary supporters back in two thousand sixteen now still getting people, but I'm getting it on Twitter. They forget what a champion. I was of Hillary Clinton in two thousand eight and how much like her personally, and I've always liked her personally. And I still like her personally for me personally. That's okay. I like her I still want to write a book about that two thousand eight race true grit, said something before the two thousand sixteen campaign that I think may apply also to Joe Biden, which is Hillary Clinton was always she was always more. She was always more attractive as a potential presidential candidate than as a presidential candidate. And I'm not so sure we don't have the same thing with Joe Biden, you can go back and see the times Joe Biden's run for president of the United States before it's been tough, Joe Biden, I've said this to ran a hell of a race in two thousand eight he was great into the baits. He never moved the needle because he was running against history and two thousand twenty my God, that's twelve years later. He still may be running against his his time may have just passed. We don't know that. But I do know that there's this thought that Joe Biden boy Joe Biden could just get into the race. That would be it. Yeah. I love Joe Mika loves Joe love him. I just gotta say it's impossible not to love. Joe, right? I if he gets into that race mak- he's going to have to fight it out. Just like. Everybody else, and I'm not so sure that twenty twenty is Joe Biden's here. We'll see it's lightning in a bottle still ahead on morning. Joe President Trump yesterday said that in addition to quote, a lot of wall already being under construction, quote, we're finishing up design on certain areas. The most important areas the Rio Grande area in others. We are building a lot of wall. We'll bring in BC's Cal who recently returned from a trim. Well, we are building wall. We are building a lot of what does he say? I like purple like this guy. Now, honestly amazing. It's it's disturbing. That he just keeps regressing. No, any by cabinet secretaries saying we want wall when they're testifying. It's strange morning. Joe family Willie Geist here. If you like the long deep dive conversations on morning Joe every day. I think you will love my Sunday sit down podcast every week. A new extended unedited interview with another big star with names from Bill Murray. Jerry Seinfeld and Kevin Hart to Aina Garton. Claire Foy me lacunas? Mark wahlberg. Ryan Reynolds, Lenny Kravitz, and yes jaylo I could continue name dropping, but you get the idea. You can check out the free Sunday sit down podcast wherever you get yours.
MSNBC Morning Joe
Aired 10 months ago 204:33
JRE MMA Show #42 with Teddy Atlas
Ladies and gentlemen. I'm back Toronto. It's this weekend. We keep adding tickets and we added two more today to more two more tickets. Get them now, two hundred more. The other one sold out. So this is it. This brings total capacity up over ten thousand and it's a lot of fucking Toronto. People. We're gonna have fun excited. And if you didn't know at the Scotiabank arena, I know I'm annoying. Keep saying it, but I the last thing I want is one person to go to the Rico Coliseum right before the show and go, fuck and then have to make your way over the other place. So hopefully it doesn't happen. Okay. Okay. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by on it. Oh, n n IT we are total human optimization company and let me give you some personal details on what I use this weekend. All right. All week I've been hunting in Utah for wild elk. Anyone. Anyone say all that stuff. Okay. Done. Good one. 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Again, use the reward co, Joe Rogan, all one word, you'll get five bucks and five dollars will go to an absolutely amazing. 'cause Justin rents fight for the forgotten charity building wells for the pygmies in the Congo. My guest today is a real legend in the world of combat sports, a real legend in the world of boxing. He is a fantastic boxing trainer, and a fantastic commentator as well. Just an all around great human being. And I really, really enjoyed talking to him. So please give it up for the great empower ful teddy atlas. The Joe Rogan experience, joy. Podcast. Thanks for being here, man, I really appreciate it. Minutely. A minute later. Keep saying that stop make you guys did listen that anyone out there mad at you wants mad at anything. There's no real set time. You know, I, I gotta tell you since I now. So you're going to be on the podcast I had about one hundred people. Tell me to get you mad. They want you to rent gets every that we're firemen. Speech, you gave Tim Bradley. Everybody wants to start screaming and get mad. You get people hyped up. Oh, there's only an occasion flood, and I don't think the being occasion I, I'm looking at this stuff here. You got a nice place here by the way. And as making me think about the Denzel Washington movie, the equalize the first one where he was in with those Russian guys were like messed up guys, and he was trying to protect that girl. And he he's taught appointing the skulls and stuff at the guy's desk. You know. Yeah, he was pointing this stuff was trying to explain to the guy. Listen let this girl, you know, I'll give you nine thousand dollars, whatever was led her go to like fifteen years old and he he didn't wanna listen to them. And so he started had stuff like this with his skull on the people could see it right, but and he started pointing towards them and I, the guy didn't take the hint, you know the guy than couple minutes lady. He killed everybody in the room, but it's just looks exactly like the thing from that movie, the Denzel Washington where he yours had guns right there. There's this. Jamie pulled the scene. Oh, really? Yeah, I never saw that movie. Yeah. So you see like a scene where he thought pointing they, they might have taken this from here. I mean, they could have gotten it from from Mexico props, so they, they pointed, he pointed it all towards the guy to kind of one. A guy what was coming next but tens. Oh, that movie is probably the only good movie that ever came out of a terrible TV series. You remember the TV series equalizer. Remember the name, but I don't know that I ever really watched it. I was a fat sloppy, white guy driving a Jaguar that supposedly kicked everybody's ass and you'd watch and you'll get the fuck out of here with this movie. I didn't watch it. I heard show it was a dumb TV show that didn't make any sense. And when they turned it into a movie and Denzel Washington in it, and I'm like, what houses possible thing freaking out, not really, but like obsessive about that. So listen, man, you were, you just came back from the canal, triple defy, which was a phenomenal fight. That was a phenomenal fight. I really enjoyed that people exaggerate how good fights on nowadays, like of around. Everything's great. Yeah, together thing. If a pitch as one good year baseball, he's great. He's he's like the next sandy Colfax like people don't wait to see and and truly graded against things that were out of their era because you know, we're human like, hey, I was there. I reported on it has degraded fight, ever, and I think so. No, no. But do they. I think it was a really good fight. Yeah, but everything's relative, you know? And it depends on everything is influenced judgment of people influenced at least I see it in my feel for whatever that's worth. By what's around and how hungry they are like everybody bought the Paquito may, whether I fight because the fans will Hungary. Their imagination was like, there's no good fights, right? There's going to be a good fight. So. Their antiquated it. So you got him at the right time if it was the eighties and you had Lennon Duran Panella woulda gone Hagler Hagler you know, you hide Hearns. I mean, you had all these great Arron prior all these guys fighting each other, you probably couldn't have pulled off the the Mayweather Paquito thing that you pulled off and it turns out to be, you know, a bit of a, I don't wanna say scam, but I, it definitely was what it lived up to be wasn't that because backyard came into the fight injured. I don't believe it. I never saw any Lizama say, need to have an injury, but you you're going to tough business, you you win taekwondo and all that kind of fighting stuff in mammalian, whatever part of it, I'm probably not giving the proper understanding of what it was and and exactly what part of the fighting nudges them may on being too broad, but. I know you detail Cuando you did kickboxing. I know that your you national champion. When you were young, somebody showed me some about it so you, you do things when you're injured. I mean, like when a United injured, if your football play of your fight of your contact, tell me when unite engine like one is not something wrong, so I never saw proved going that bout of is there covering it for years? I never saw proof where he went store or he didn't for that hand, or he threw it in in a poor way or in less than high level way. I never saw that. So listen, I'm not in his body, you know, and I'm not a mind reader, but I didn't see it. But what I did see, I saw him and his trainer in the runway was more telling to me taking selfies because they had got paid of a few dollars to promote some kind of. A product where they sell fees attached to it. So I saw that to me that was more debilitating to see a guy before the biggest fight of his life where people will go crazy and going to break the paper view record and paying a hundred dollars for the frigging thing to see him taking a selfie when the mentalities should be a different place and normally isn't different place before you're about to walk that hundred yards to the ring where you might not come out of there. Right? It's always possible. You have to have that mentality. I thought that was more debilitating than anything I saw physically with what was supposed to be an arm injury. So to me, look to me, maybe it's over. It's fantasy was a money grab, but obviously. It was a bit of a money grab. They will beyond themselves. You know, one guy was retired. He came back foot, they would beyond the peak of their abilities in their career, and I just, I just didn't see. I didn't see that fight the purpose to it. Well, it happened about five. Six years late. Yeah, yeah. I just. I mean. What what. Everyone who gets in a ring they deserve to make as much money as they can. I never never say that if I got overpaid, never, I don't care. I never say that because I understand what it took to get to that point, and but you know, you can. You can play with things and you know you can. You can kind of lead people to things. And again, where we started with this conversation, you know, I, it's the time you around the the environment, what's not around, not just what's around, but what's not around. Right. You know, not that many great fights to be made right now. They're saying so triple g Cannella fight is important because there's not a lot of guys waiting in the wings. It's not like the old days of the nineteen eighties of the glory days of the welterweight and middleweight division. No, it's not an people. You know, they, they have a Thursday if you will to see something that the PR department can. Bring it can use the right material because they it has fight as that, obviously a marquee fighters with a name that they can build it and get the imagination of the people to say. There's going to be a great one. So when they see it and they pay hundred dollars eighty five thousand ninety five dollars, whatever the heck they're paying for the fight. And then it's a good fight will become a great fight because of all those elements. Because you know, I it's doing your time. You saw it, you committed to it, you sacrifice to pay that money. You sacrifice a fly there. And yeah. A really good fight becomes a a great time. Yeah, and and I don't think we separate that in our minds. I don't think, hey, who says we have to because right, it's about enjoyment. So if that, if that makes people happy, hey, that's part of that's part of what goes into the mix of entertainment. But I didn't see when I try to separate that being in the business. I didn't see it as you know, throw in Manila. I saw it as. A really good solid fight. And once again, unfortunately took away from it would controversy with the decision. Did you think the I thought the first decision was terrible. I thought triple g clearly won the fight. I thought the second decision arguable I saw this. This looks like a draw to me and it was an amazing fight. I mean, I gotta be honest because I mean that's supposed to be. And who do you think one I had won seventeen one, twelve and love people going to say for to fall off all week, long Pinella to win on ESPN on sports. And I was working. So I was twelve big, it's five out. So yeah, I, yeah. So I'm, you know, you've you start to. You mean you start to hear people's like you know some about fighting that had a closest. Maybe you don't wanna yell at yet. Seventeen twelve. But yeah, you'd still gotta yell it. Yeah, because that's what you believe. That's what you saw and. I still say it still yell it. That was they didn't give them credit for jabs like jabs don't count like. I'm not gonna pick out anybody because that's not really fad into when you have podium and they don't have a podium, but. Sometimes it is because they deserve it, but not not generally. And the judge's nowadays. I think that. They just give. I see too often that the almost go down the easy route. Like, you know, they just give it to who's aggressive for guys, walking forward guys punches. It's like they're favor guy, and it's more to that, and I understand it sport doesn't help itself. They don't make a clear criterion for, but it's supposed to be clean, hotter affect of punches because the separation of professional, boxing, amateur, boxing is you have to sell it. You have to make money, right. And you gotta put fannies in the seats so you wanna see guys get hurt. You wanna see guys impact guys. So it's the cleaner who hurts the guy more. It's clean. 'em won't pack full punches, but it's not just thrown. It's not just aggression because aggression has to lead to something affective, affective aggression. So I, I saw for me to get it to that one seventeen one, twelve. I saw. Galop can on the outside control, reins control distance. You wanna use that silly word ring generalship because I have the time. I don't know what they're talking about. They say ring general. Like, what are you talking about? I just saw the way you judge what did where did you fit in ring generalship into that into your thinking? Because I'd like to know. But if it is ring generalship, he was controlling range who's controlling outside. He was keeping the shorter man on the outside. Catching went to jam, making him earn his way in making them pay a price to get in now was the other guy canal. In the other guy, landing the hod clean body shots that sometimes you don't get credit for. Yeah, he was like, I say on ESPN who's putting water in the basement, he definitely was, but. The Jeb didn't count, suddenly was suddenly in a universe where the jab of guide doesn't mean anything when we don't want it to mean anything when we want to give it to the aggressive guide to the to the guy trying, you know, trying to get in there. The question is, what's more important is a jab, more important or hook to the body? What what is more important than your to the body clean is more important more important. But if the Jeb outnumbers the hooks to the body through many rounds and the numbers of significant that it's greater then then you have to account for that. Right. So you think that people are watching. They're watching a couple of jabs and then one hook to the body and they count that one hook to the body better than they count the two jobs. And I don't have a problem with that because I can't it that way till if it's a good shot. Yeah, I'll because again our shot. Yeah, because that is what's going to drive people to the event right to the sport as the harder punches. So I have no problem with that, but of the jabs are twenty jabs. Right? And it's too body punches. Well, then I'm starting to save. We can't forget the jabs because the body punches got you attention and and you know, move chatty acetyl little bit maybe because for whatever reason. So I'm just saying that the criterion is not clean enough of for the judge sometimes. Well, it's even bigger mess and Emma may. And so a lot of the same judges, I think the problem with judging is the same bowl sports. He should have someone who has experience in the sport. I mean, they have to have a deep understanding and whether actually watching and that's not the case. I know it's not the case in boxing because a lot of the same judges from boxing also judge Emma may they don't know what they're talking about an MA and I don't think they know what they're talking about in boxing either. And that's a real travesty. It's a huge disservice to these professional athletes who literally are, as you said, risking everything as they step in there. There's a real good chance that they might not come out. I mean, it happens every so many fights a dies. This is just a fact in boxing and the fact to football too short 'em as well. We'll MA is plenty of problems. I mean, there's there's less deaths 'em may, but we're getting desk from wayans. We have a lot of extreme week, cutting issues in some of the small organizations, particular all of that stuff is legitimate. It's problem something that should be looked at just a shame that the judging is so poor and it's been this way for so long well to the boxing. I mean, you have a then I'm not saying is in a derogatory way and some ways. It's a good way, but you have a dictator running, you know, UFC but, but it's okay to have a dictate sometimes because at least you have rules that he had to have structure. Yeah. And you know, as long as they're not, you know, taking out in, I know you're saying and so-. Boxing has. Boxing has no real. Accountable knows strikes across the board. No, don't real. You know, lateral -struction conformity. Nothing unilateral because you have different states that have different commissions and you know the supposed to be tied together, but they will actively and there's no national commission is no body. There's no dictator. There's no saw. There's no, there's no NBA Commissioner. There's no NFL Commissioner. There's no MLB Commissioner that overlooks and polices whole sport and. There's no separation of. Church and state. So to speak, where the people making the money in the sport, a separated, truly separated from the people, supposedly administrating this. There's no separation, right? I mean, promoters actually, that are making money in have obviously a horse that running in the game. So to speak that night that they want that fight to win. They pay the judges and there's no, there's no again is no buffer. There's no separation where you can have promoters and managers that can actually go to the commission and say, we don't want these judges to judge. They can't say, put this judge in, but they cannot judge his out and commissions will listen to them. The alphabet organizations, corrupt they are. I mean, it's not teddy atlas Saint it. It's everybody's saying there's very few people are gonna say they're not corrupt. Well, the corrupt. I mean, if you're going to be honest about it and you're not, you don't have an agenda. You're free to say because you have an agenda, which a lot of people doing my business agenda. So they're not gonna say because part of it then are part of it. They they're friendly, were people that are part of it and they wanna have access. They wanna have relationships so they say away from it and they understand how the call should work. So they understand, you know is is in a smoky room was caused like the old days with Frankie Kabul was wanted things and you put an envelope. No, it's not that, but you might be paying thirty thousand dollars for an ad and at a convention for the WBAL the WBZ or the w IBM WB all whatever the heck they are. And you might be paying thirty thousand eight hundred. Wha- you, you know why you pay thirty thousand for that. I don't think that you just like to see your name and the ad in in the brochure. There's there was a purpose behind pain that, and so there's no. Again. You have the administrators of the sport, the commissions, and then you have outward organizations that get paid a sanction fee from the champion. So they want that champion to win. And so they get the sanctions and especially if he's a popular champion, so they so now you have. No body saying, well, the manage you can't talk to the sanctioned organization promoted can of course they can talk to them and say, I want my guys rated high. Of course they have access. So they have access to talking to somebody influencing somebody to move their guy up in the ratings, these honest ratings and they have access to tell it an organization. Well, you know, I like to push a mandatory. I like to push my guy to get the mandatory, which means of course that he's gonna fight him with a certain period of time. He's gotta fight to champion missing in MA. Yeah, that's absolutely missing them. You have all that stuff going on. And. Where is the? Where was the oversight? Yeah, whereas all of us, I was the police who is too right. Where's the line? Where. Because again, people making money, people running the sport, people making money, people administrating the sport. It's not supposed to blur the supposed to be separation. Now, if you know where to go. In europe. America United States too. But all to your with a lot of big fights who's just big fight with Joshua in London drew ninety thousand people which is good for the sport, and it's it's, it's incredible. But if you know where restaurants go to the night before, big fight, you will walk in a restaurant. I've been there. You will walk in a restaurant. I'm not gonna say something if I can't stand by it and you will see at the restaurant. So big table kind of like the, you know, not the last supper, but it's it's a big table and you will see all the officials at that table that are gonna work, the fight the next night and you will see the organizational heads, the heads of that sanctioning body and and the guys in charge the presence vice pheasants, supervises, judges referees, and guess who the host of the dinners the promoter someone with that. I mean. There's something greatly wrong with that. The host of the dens, big Bill. Obviously, there's a lot of people to good restaurant, the eating, all the best stuff, drinking a best wines and everything else. So it's a big Bill and it's being picked up by the promoter who wants a specific fighter to win that night, and he's got all he's got access to all the judges all the officials. All goes asional heads now. So I would say to the people that are listening out there that just to make the analogy that really, I think would hit home the New York Yankees. They're obviously universally known name and brand of organization, maybe the biggest of all time. So how about a New York, you go to the best front and the night before a World Series game, you. You walked into the restaurant and you saw all the Piran crew all the fficials that are in charge of the pirate for the World Series game sitting at a dinner hosted by the steinbrenners problem problem. Problem problem. Yeah, giant problem. Yeah. And it can't happen because there's a commission would never let that happen because the integrity, the credibility of sport would be down to tubes in one moment before you could finish your shrimp cocktail and put. So can't happen on check. Inbox happens all the time in boxing and. Just to look of impropriety is wrong. It should be wrong. It should be a baseball is should be. Football should be wrong, but it should be a more wrong in a sport where you risk so much. Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah, it's very, very good point. And I don't know how you would ever fix that. I mean, how would you have some universal oversight of the entire sport and how would you get everybody from the WBO w you know, WBZ they wouldn't know. They don't cannot because the president United States started Karen when there was a problem with baseball, he got. He got involved was about steroids though. Right? But it was a problem but was not a worship problem. I mean, it was a real problem, but it was more of a problem of they wanted to clean up the image because it's America's sport, and they had these people. Bears defense will going to leave the game a little bit, right? So it was a problem as a problem was impacting them. It was impacting listen. It was impacting the perception of the game which impacted the. The gates. What they're gonna make and ultimately the fan base, which of course impacts them financially. It impacts the country because of less people care about this sport. You're gonna see less and if you care about, you're going to be one of the people that are left out. So it was a problem and they, they can't. I don't. I'm going to be careful saying as, but not that careful, but because you have to say it, I don't think that they can much about the people in boxing. I don't think they're doing there. I just it's it's more of a dangerous dirty sports. Yeah, and the people that come into it and everything else, I'm gonna get into all the other stuff, then you could get into that, you know, so popular to get into some ways nowadays races. Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna get into that because. I don't wanna. I don't have definitive of things to show for that. I just know how I with a precise. It's not. It's not cherish the way baseball's cherish when is a big fight like canot, triple people get excited and lot of people by it, but it's not necessarily thought of as something that represents America and particularly canal triple g. You're talking to people that aren't American. The begin with, yes, yeah. And this history, boxing know that unfortunately, because I care about this points in my life. That it's? Yeah, it's got a reputation as being correct. And unfortunately, fortunately, unfortunately, like the part, the good part where the history goes back long father than any other sport, any other sport. I mean, it was the first sport in Olympics. It goes back further and it was the biggest port in this country bigger than baseball. At one time it was that big. I mean, you know, so. And now it's it's not and. It's too bad because and it's too bad that the kids that the young people, they don't have the ability to learn about those fighters. So special fighters that were special, they really want, and it was supposed for different reasons like like Jackie Robinson, especially, no, we don't have to go into why he was special, but nobody knows that Joe Louis, he was quiet and everything. But when he was in the army and it was, you know, segregation and all that crap going on. He he quietly uses position as heavyweight champ of the world to make sure that when he went to movies and they put him in the front row and he saw the blacks won't allowed to come in. He said, I'm not going in there and let's blacks can come in there when he went to other sort of events where the same kind of junk was going on. He very quietly but powerfully. Integrated things and said, we're going to make a change here. You you're not gonna have me and not have people that look like me, you know, kept out. So he and there were people I've read about it because I like reading about those things but history to see how we could be better and and where we've come from and. History of black families. You know, pull black families would would get hope from just saying, hey, lose did it. They would tell their kids, hey, Joe, listen, I don't wanna hear this. I don't wanna hear that. You can't do this to lose, did it, and so he was that important. That's that's the only point on making here. He was that. Freaking important that that history and the history of other fighters like him doesn't have to be black fighters, but that what they what they did, what they overcame, where they came from, who Benny Leonard one of the greatest Druze fighters of all time. It was a time when and it's still around on. Fortunately, there's a lot of anti-semitism, but there was a time where you know it was tough being a Jew and you growing up and he get caught a Kaik on ovum pronouncing, right, right. And you get cold all those kind of. I don't even know what the hell. It means. I know it's a bad name to call to, and and you had all that stuff going on. And Jews woman thought of being there with of moving towards banking in the they moving towards things will make money into later on. They started doing that, but they win the ghettos and they're trying to pull themselves out. And so at that ever during that time, the twenty two. Thirties. The truce was some of the best fighters because that was their way of getting out. But. There was there was another significance to be an Jewish fighter. That a lot of the kids they won't thought of as being tough. So they got picked on and thought of that. They're going to go more towards academic and other stuff. So there was a weakness perceived not true. None of the stuff Mark. Yeah, yeah. So now sudden Betty Lennon comes along when a sports, the biggest sport in the country, and he's the best free confide in a game and he combs his hair before he got a ring and he would come out without it being messed. And this was this guy was, I mean, he was. He was Michael Jordan. I mean before that stuff before Michael, join before Air Jordan before. I mean, this guy was on only tough on only a champion which obviously connected to be tough by itself, but it was. He was smart. He was who's cool. He had possessed. He was. A man and the would Jewish families. You don't hear about these stories, but the Jewish families I've read and I've heard from people where say, hey, don't let nobody pick on you, Benny. Leonard is the best fighter in the world. Choose tough. We're not just smart, but tough. Benny Leonard shows that so that kind of history, that kind of. Pulling of people up in many different ways. Not just economically out of poverty, but but emotionally mentally, because you can be in poverty mentally, you can be in the low place mentally, it doesn't have to be, you know, financially all the time. You know, you have holes in your shoes and women shirts that don't fit. No, it can be the way you feel about yourself that is without without territory with with without value. You have no value for yourself as a person. That's the worst poverty in the freaking world does not the lower than that, and Joe Louis and Benny Leonard, they will fight as they won't baseball players. They pulled people out of those places. They let people know they had value that their race had value. Their people had value, they had value and that should be known and you can. Go anywhere, and I'm glad you Ken because I love all sports. You could go anywhere. You can read about the greatness of the baseball players in greatness. Of course, NFL hasn't been around that long, but the greatness of those plays and the greatness of the NBA place. But where did the kids have a get to read into here and to see about the greatness of these people? These fighters nowhere very little, very little. It's not there why? Because again, I'm not going to get into craziness, but. The POWs that be the listen. It's not marketed properly. I get it doesn't have a commission so it doesn't take care of itself the way the u. of the greatness about why the u of c grew so much as they market themselves in a tremendous way. So there's nobody Boxing Day it takes care of itself exist because man against man. So it's always going to be there, but nobody's building, nobody's mocking no one's feeding them monster to make it bigger, and it's a plant that's in the corner of your office that doesn't get sun, doesn't get. But it still there. Right, right. It's still there. And what I'm saying is that. Cya I didn't wanna yelp because now probably happy, but. But, but it should be fed a little bit. It should be watered a little bit, but you know what? I just. Guys like you. Guys like you guys who have a deep appreciation for the history of sport guy, guys who have a deep appreciation of what it meant when Joe Louis beat maximally guys guys, who understand what it meant when Sugar Ray Robinson was the best fighter in the world, and everybody knew any pull up in a fucking pink Cadillac with beautiful suit on. And he any made elevated a, he elevated people in hall every but home. He had. He owned have Holum. He owned restaurants and stores, and Bobby shops and and everything and and you wanted to be there because that's where Sugar Ray Robinson game from. Yep, it was great. Yeah. I mean, it's a rich history that really does getting Nord. Let me tell you something I was smelling. You put up, you know, up of his. And that's what it's nice to talk about, which. Smelling was a helluva fighter. Joe Louis was the Brown bomb. It was coming up. It was undefeated and Schmeling had two great quote before the fight. You know, it's kind of like the Babe, Ruth thing that that really happened where he pointed out and then he hit, you know, those great stories, but. What's the real truth behind them? You know, we don't. We don't care. We don't care certain point. You know why? Because they let us feel good. They let US Dream about possibilities. We should all have puzzle Bility's to dream about, and they make somebody feel good because you know the Babe, Ruth one was connected to a sick kid. So I, it's a nice thing. It's where sports can be better than just sports than just somebody participating in. It can go beyond that agreed stronger than that and that some of the good stuff about it. And so sh- melding, the great story, he didn't point to the to the fence, but he said before the fight, I see something with the, that's my my, my trying to be an accent for the German, you know. But I sound more like Schultz from Hogan's heroes. I don't know why. Everytime you try to do something like with certain ethnic pronunciations. You sound like you. You go to one of those sitcoms go to one of those places, you know. And when I say somebody think my kid, I think my son said. You know, he had watched one of them and I think he said you sound like Sajjan shells like from Hogan's heroes, but and he said, I see something and what he saw was that Lewis would jab any would leave. You should never leave your head on on the right side because if you leave your head, you know you move your head to the right side. You in a path to the right hand, you should actually finish on the left side because then you outside the right hand. If all as the right in over here, it can hit you outside. Right? So he had a habit of and he had a great trainer. He had a habit though, at that point of leaving his head over and a right, so smelling source something as he said that he could into more right hand. You could time it over the gym. Now Schmeling was of the ilk. Of the level of the caliber wasn't just about talent. He could punch who's a good fighter, but it was a pro. What do I mean by that? A lot of guys were would hesitate a little bit same opening. They might see, but it was the Brown bomber was not going to be went out, so they hesitate, they will afraid normal people freight of that word. I mean, it's Dan without when alive so he they, they might see the same thing, but they woman at a pro level pro level is a guy that can do what he has to do and no motion to fear with doing. I mean, that's my simplest way of Webb's might not say that, but that's what I would say. So they might have seen the opening, but they would hesitate just enough and be gone. The goal close because it's it's, it's like life. It's moments, captured moment, lose a moment and but this guy was a pro. He, he didn't let that come in there and make them hesitate that that fear he control it. And if it open was their Bank who's going to tell the punch. So he did and he Trump lose a few times and you know, he, he won that fight and what round to stop them. I can't remember maybe maybe the ninth but was late night, but he had heard them. And Lewis was taken a beating. So. Louis Lee went on, he won no wall title and. He Braddock for the title Cinderella man, great movie. Yes. Mayb-. You know, he came from welfare to be in the world champion. That's the product story without getting into too much. So you lose beach Braddock and had to give a percentage, you know, Don King and our my nothing around then, but, but the people that told them what to around taught them how to take advantage of heights, told him how what options were before options will have known, you know. The Braddock I think I forget. But products manager basically made Lewis and his people agree to give them a percentage of his person for the rest of his career to get the fight what? Yeah. So I mean, you could obviously search shouldn't look into much percent. I don't know. I listen. I could say ten percent, but I don't wanna say definitively because I'm not positive, but but there was an understanding that you know you're not getting a fight otherwise, you won't get the fight now and listen. Like I said, you know, not great guys, but king in they, they had guys before them that taught them. Some of these moves, you know that woman so nice, but there's always our history of good in bed. Jor always who's good. Well, this to that. I know if there's like a shining star promoter out there trying to think about. So we so they go and they he, he wants to title. And of course the biggest Borden countries. So right, all the presses Dan and their Joe is champing wounds, not yet, not yet. What do you mean? Not yet? Just when the title not yet. That's why beat that man. He didn't have to say, is name not too. I beat them in. That's how much priority had and listen. He's the real deal because it has mind how can I be champion of guy, knock me out, right? So when that fight took place, I mean, you talk about a setting a stage. You know, the now days people said on the states a lot of pressure, you know, hey, I'm not saying it's not. I'm not saying it, but a lot of pressure and almost a lot of people looking a lot of people, you know, depending on stuff going on, you know. And I, you know, maybe. I got a headache, but toll Lewis had World War Two on horizon. The president of the United States call them up and you had Nazi Germany had a guy named Hitler that that is saying that he's got, you know, the master race, it's going to take over the world just starting that stuff. Not too far away from World War Two, and you got all that stuff permeating. In the air and you got Louis fighting a guy who of 'cause you know. Propaganda was started by the Germans. If you want. Almost to me almost invented that word because you had the propaganda minister, you had all these temple people with Hitler that will put out today the master vase that is that you have to just y'all win situation Olympics. Yeah. And now you had the biggest sport in the biggest country and a champion of that sport heavyweight champ, Joe Louis, and he's fighting the German fighter Schmeling the second time now for the title. And of course you had. Hedlund or his cycle fans while these people that will that job was to to promote it so to speak. And they come an as saying, we will show the world that was superior and there's no better way to show it that in a ring. And so Lewis has to. He's got. He's got a carry all this stuff. I mean, take about it and he's a black guy. A cut that that he's still can't go into certain places t- and he's got to carry the whole. He's got a Harry the whole country and not let them down in the president causal, and we don't know if there's a legendary story. We don't know if it's completely true, but supposedly the present quote m- said, Joe, you gotta win this one for the guys that that's that's one of the legends. I don't know if it's true, but I know that I'm sure he call. I'm sure he called him, and Lewis has to go into. Is going to Yankee Stadium outdoors. And in Times Square in New York, they used to have it set up where they would the radio because all the fight wgnradio back then and some of them on fights on TV on select cavalcade of sports and all that stuff. Either night fights but was was coming along, you know, just come along, but Radi was the thing. And so in Times Square, you had the radio speakers outdoors. You know, playing a fight pulled cast in the fight, so people out on the streets, they hear the radio and you know Joe loses walking into the ring and you know, and you got the Yankee Stadium, you've got to place full and you got the whole world of everything. I just described. The good, the bad, the evil, the ugly, everything. It's not a movie, it's real life and you got show Lewis and he gets another ring and he and nyah lates with all this pressure would would that he's got a save the basically the United States in the world from from looking like this ugly. Scorch and disease of the Nazi party is is going to take over the world is greater than us, and he's single singlehandedly has to prove that. And he, he goes in the United States guy one round with all that stuff hanging over them. I think that's the greatest single event in the history of the world. Pull that fighter, pull out, fight up and put it in the background. And I think that diet. When you talk about all the things that we're here to talk about about character, about talent about preservations, about resiliency about about caring about more than yourself about selflessness. About strength. When you talk about all those things that we try to say that we care about and that we sometimes look to to be very rarely can we be that. He was all that he was all of that and there it is right there. I mean, how does that? And he stalked guy. He stalked to guy and his punches was short and powerful, and he was the greatest finisher in the history of heavyweight, boxing, because when he hurts you, you didn't survive. He got ready. You put punches together and it was short and he was always in position. Look at his legs. He's always position you move. Forty takes a little step fall back to those punches is absolutely beautiful. If you wanted to teach young fighter punch correctly, Joe Louis, there's no better guy to watch the show, Utah. Did you see Joe what he did a little, no minute ago. Schmeling try to catch them with that same right hand. He had knocked out two years earlier. Go back. They just missed it, but he changed. He stepped out changed his distance this time. Because Jackie Blackbourne who's a great fighter, a black fighter. He was a training, a great training. Nobody hears about Jackie Blackburn what a great fighter. He was what a great trainee was and how he wasn't allowed to fight white fights. And he beat everybody cantaloupe took instead of lane head on the right like you did the first fight. He changed his range and he made that right hand miss, look, how calm us look, how communist look, how focused he is. It's beautiful and really ordinance of those punch. Look at that watches legs, Joe, what's what's, how he's always in position. What did we miss? What didn't you see? Go back side stone? No, the blinding jam that sets you don't see what the Jeb the Koi. With the right, so it right. What a beautiful sidestep to right after he lands a right hand. Notable looking at the greatest pitcher all time. What's what's way, finishes guy, what it's going to go to the body. That right into the body right hand to the head. Oh. That is so short and even when he's got the guy hurt, look at the guy look at phenomenal, phenomenal, and he did all that with everything. We just talked about the last twenty minutes hanging over him. Yeah. History that people don't talk. Doesn't that make you think a little bit doesn't Hank you feel something about us? Really? Yeah. Well, it's one of the reasons why I'm giants fan of the sport. Thank you. I mean that that alone in terms of like historical impact, I agree with you as one of the biggest moments in all of sports ever in life in life. You know what I like about oxen. I like a lot of things. I don't like I don't like the administrators. I ate them. I know there's a powerful word, but you know, not every single one of them, but I'm just saying, I, I hate their weakness. I eight cowardice, I do. I do because they sit outside the ring, a lot of them. You brought up a point. They should have had experienced one way or the other, and they've never ever had anybody punch. And I'm not saying to be a man, you gotta get punched. I'm not saying any of that stuff. It's being a man as a lot more than that, a lot more. No plenty of people get punched and then I met. But what I'm saying is that. You should understand what it feels to a person to put themselves on the line. To risk so much into risk, everything. To try to get their family in a better place. I think also they should be a fan and I don't think some of them are even fans, so they're not. And some of my night even like it wouldn't tell you that. Right, but they just do it for a job. Yeah, yeah. And what I'm saying is that. When you when I see these people that haven't been in that place, not everyone can be in that place. So again, I gotta be careful with that. If I'm going to be fair. But for them so easily to take something away from somebody see what's different for me, why I get passionate if you wanna use that word, people say teddy, you get a little crazy. If it happens in baseball and a guy beat out to Trump. Now you have cameras, so you didn't use half that, but a guy, you didn't have replay back in the day. A guy that happened a lot times guy was safe and calm out. You know what too bad. It's a shame, but you know what the next day is going to play the game again, and he's going to be able to make amends for that. He and his family, and he's got guaranteed contracts, and you know what? It's going to be okay. I mean was right. Wrong is never right. No, but you know what? In the mix, things we could overcome that. But now you take a fight same thing and the judge judges make a mistake maybe on purpose, whatever. But they make a bad mistake, the fight it can't go back the next day. Rectify that. The fighter doesn't have a guaranteed contract. He only has what he can make if he gets to that fight, that's it for that. Night because with that fight a goes, he don't go back to the dugout and then come out the next day and play again with the new uniform on. Now, he goes to the back on the line and boxing and has to take hundreds maybe thousands of punches to get back to that place. He was to earn the right to get closer to the exit in the business because everyone's trying to get to exit the trying to gain what they can gain, but their legacy, but for their families for themselves in many ways financially, you know, and and but also what's inside them that they that they have to prove something that they have to make it for all different personal reasons. And they close to doing that. And now they've forced because of some crook. Maybe it's an competences either corruption incompetence. Okay. But sometimes it's corruption and they have. To go all the way to the of the line then playing football game the next Sunday. Then I've played an NBA game two days later. And they got to take all those punches and hope hope. To get back to that place and you know what high seen it. I did twenty two years of ESPN, boxing of in with the SPN about twenty two. But I did like eighteen years. Whatever was fighting, I fights. We did a lot of title fights. Not too big names, not the canal oes. Not not to go off Ken's, not the Mayweather's guys that adventurous as much to even more because they didn't have millions of dollars and they got this shot and I watched them go rob. And I saw that they never got back there. That night was the right night for them. That particular night, everything worked. Everything was perfect. All that training. Hey, everything came together and they were beautiful. They were magnificent and they were freaking robbed. And it's wrong. It's really wrong. And that's what they do when they do that. But the glorious thing of if that's not too. Made up of a word sounds like glow of, but the beautiful thing about boxing. Is that with everything in the world. And I used his cliche terminology, but you know, would live being unfair because I don't like to use that because because sometimes people nowadays for me, they, there's too many excuses out there there. Really, there's too many damn excuses. You're in this country. You got a chance to do some where you don't have in other places, but. Having said that he can feel like life's not fast. Sometimes, especially when you think about some of the things we just talked about in a day that's gone now, it's not there no more, but day of Lewis and all those kind of people life wasn't fat. That really, they really had a right to use that saying nowadays. I don't think people have white black, purple. They don't have a right to say that to the extent that they did back that not to the extent. No, no, they don't. They really Liz other things wrong of their messed up people still out there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But sometimes it's too easy to use that. Yes, it's just too easy. I agree. So, but there was a time when life too often was on fat ruthlessly. Yeah, really on fan ruthlessly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And when life was unfair, boxing around to make it fair, I tell you how. On one given night. If you worked hard enough if you dream big enough. If you were tough enough and you made yourself tough enough is sacrificed enough. He became polish than savvy enough and. And technically. Equipped to do things that you had any learn those things, and you just works yourself to the bowl. No matter way you came from the matter part of the world, no matter who your parents were, no matter what your poverty level may have been may not have been no matter what you had. Would you didn't have the might of what people had told you didn't tell you. All of that. If you made yourself and took advantage of that opportunity. Got yourself. Ready. You ready to be h-have. Like a champion. You get in that ring on one given night and make the world fair. And have you hand lifted recall champion of the world that makes boxes special. And that's what these judges don't get. That kids awaiting to hear that and they're give everything. You know, you hear too much crap where I would die for that people that would die for that. So people in our times in this world in his country, and you use the right world word, you know, tragically, whatever powerful word you just use ruthlessly. Yeah. Yeah. There were people because that word, because the reality of the actions attached to that world where. If you told them, listen, you, you got you. You're gonna have to die, you know, after this, but you'll get to have this. Your hand will be lifted. You will be called champion the world. All your people will see it and people you want to see it and yourself. But you're dying afterwards. I would give you that people would sign on. That's how important that was. That's what that stood for. And then you get judges that. Have no conception of that. I don't mean put. No, I'm saying they have to have a complete conception of it, but no feeling of what we're talking about. I think they're like DMV workers. That's what I think. I think there's a bunch of them that are real good, but a lot of them are just like people that are just taking government job. That's what I think. I think it's a travesty that they're not removed. That's what I think when whenever I go to a UFC and like I said, a lot of the same judges, and I see some of these these scores. I wanna take my fuck in headset off and throw it into the cage and scream and flip over the table, and you just cut it. Take a deep breath and calm yourself down because there's nothing you can do in these athletic emissions have kicked kept people on for whatever reason and you watching a bad decision. You watch someone who trained for eight ten weeks for this one particular frightened years and years to get to that position and the getting fucked and the getting fucked because someone just sucks at their job and they don't care and this person they, they're going to be there two months from now at another fight and. There's nothing you can do about it, and I don't understand it. I don't understand how the Commission's let the slide. I don't know how difficult is to fire. These people would approve, they're incompetent, but I do know that especially with with, I guess it's probably true with both boxing MMA their countless fans out there do a far better job. Countless countless people that have experience in fighting countless people that have a deep appreciation and understanding of what's actually going on inside the fight, and these people don't get those jobs and instead the same fools continue to give piss poor decisions or corrupt decisions. I mean, whoever that woman was. There's Mench people's names, but there's been some decisions. There's been some horrific decision with the may, whether you're talking about the Mayweather Cannella the woman that had draw. Yes. What I know. I know it name, but I'm not going to say her name either because she was also involved in another one. Was it Tony Brown? I think many Paco, yes. She was involved in a couple. Yeah, couple, at least two. So being being responsible. Why was she still there right. Cicely. Why she she's still there, why? Yeah. Why was he still being right? We're not talking about neurosurgeon sick twin, really? Right. We're talking about a job. There's a lot of people that could do it. I'm not saying it's an easy job, but I'm saying there's a lot of people that are have a real understanding of boxing that would've done a way better job. I mean, somebody runs a Bank. They're not your Bank teller the next week. Exactly exactly. Well, out of all the promoters today is golden boy, the best at least Oscar de LA Hoya. Bernard Hopkins legit world champion fighters. I mean, they have a but they're tach to. They got one to strengthen gonna weakness, that weaknesses that touched really attached at the hip to one their solar system. So to speak, has one son and son is called canal Cannella disappears tomorrow, and they're fucked. Happy. They got some problems, but listen hayman's out there. You know, he PBC, you know, he came along. He just signed a deal from what I read. I think I'm saying the numbers right? Where FOX gave him fifty million dollars for four year deal to put fights out there and he's probably got the best stable of fighters. I mean, he's a, he's got, the guy has been fighting to guy was, I think was one of the best guys Thurman, but you know, he's got who I really loved guys, a beast. My son loves them Spence, Earl, Spencer, yes, he's a beast. I mean, the guy I like inside and out what do I mean by that? I mean, yeah, he truly believes that he should fight all the best. He truly believes he's the best. He truly believes he's going to get to you. You know what I mean? And any fights that way, and he's a great guy like he's a guy, he's a good guy, so it's it's ticket. Yeah. And so it makes a better. Yeah, he's got a big smile. Yeah. Yeah. It's better Terence. Crawford is another one giant fan. And so I mean, havens got a lot of he's also got wilder heavyweight, but one of the champs, whatever that is, but while technically got a lot of problems put, he's one thing that's not a problem and. Confidence, one other thing. Oh, my goodness. Aw. It's bit about hamlet's right in fucking my right. Oh my goodness. He. Listen fucker knocked out everybody and he, he hit two Ortiz's fight was very interesting. He was her TS. Shape and still every might help them a little. But he was in bed shade and but boy, oh boy, Bill, you know, I say a lot of times he had that eraser, you know, I remember I remember was it's not a great memory, but as a kid, somehow I wound up in a Catholic school for a minute and those nuns. They, they should have been fighters. They will mean they will mean I think they will little twisted some of them, but not gonna go to, they will Lou. They will mean, but they had no problem hitting you head with that black racer like you won't pay bang and it was hard. It was like, I don't fly. Yeah. And he has that a racer. That's the point he has rates aware band believe, but it's so good as his speak. Come, take it lands technique bed, pound Shylock, lock, boom. Really. He lands people go flying. I mean, giant heavyweight either in terms of what he is still he's long, yes. And he's tall and looked those arms. He is long. If he could hit you. Well, so's Tyson fury, and that's one of the things that makes this very, very interesting ties with that. Saying, styles make fights. That's going to be this fight. That's going to be the whole Tyson fury is a mother fucker. Well, he could move. Yes, not only six, seven or whatever. The hell is bigger. Yeah, six eight. Long, but he can move each phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody forgot to heavyweight because he moves around like a lightweight. Yeah, and that could be a problem. Yeah, until he gets hit also talks tremendous shit until he gets hit. Then then things change. Yeah, but I al- always used to say when I was doing, I would always say. And I, of course, I wouldn't say if I didn't have belief in the proof of it in my mind, at least that punches abortion than I made. Yeah, you're born or you're going to be a punch that rival just and I'll tell you some funny because you put it up about him being, you know, he's not a big, you know. He's not that prototypical big. Husky, you know, in a wedge doubt Joshua. Yeah, he's not that right, but I'll tell you when I was trying to fight his when I was young and I was taking them to smokers in the Bronx to get experience every week, tough places in the South Bronx, and we'll take them to these unsanctioned fights just to get an experienced and if I didn't know the fighter, see, I I'm responsible for these kids back then I'm like their parent and that trust me, some of them didn't have parents, but the ones that did they will trust me to this kid. They didn't always going to South Bronx where where I remember one time Abon a cough from somebody didn't have to good enough call. It was the publisher of the newspaper, the catskill Daily Mail, and and I've come to his name the publisher and I bought his station wagon. I didn't have a copy enough to take the kids and has leave, and he says, it's not taking place where they'd like rob hubcaps. So something and I was like. No, because I didn't think I was lying because to me, they wrote the whole car. So so no, because he lifted it hub caps, right? So I said, no. So I get in the first thing I do the, you know, underneath to l. for people don't notice to train subway train and I on the neat and and that was you talk about life growing quick, you in one night, it was like leave Weeden chapters of a book. You went to different things and you learn to things about yourself and about what's there what you don't see and you haven't been around, but it's there and it's good to know it's there different life devante and I'm down the South Bronx and and first thing I did, I went to MRs Santos, who was the father? One of my kids, I went to ball cross streets MRs central my over there. Gotcha. And my come out and all the batteries of the cause on, except mine. Quite often and but my call was good. It's the Santos and his crew made sure that nobody took my battery and so we were good. So I was looking for the kids because I did what I had to do, but it was a scary place was tough place, and the kids grew up fast. It was treat flights and it was often door that was meant to be three flights because you had time to think during those flights the first flight, quite frankly, you saw syringes. Sometimes kids didn't know about his kids will catskill New York. They're really syringes. And then the next flight you know, you smoke your because people were there. They went up there and they were, you know, going to bathroom doing whatever and shooting up, whatever it smell. But then by time you get to hurt flight. He started to hit noise started to hear salsa, music. And you, you could smell them. They were cooking all the Spanish specialties, the the five bananas, the the meat with the potato in the middle. Palatis and all that, you know, remember the names but all the dividend. And of course a lot of a lot of it a ball, but that's how they kept. That's how they pay the rent for the gym because they would do these small caps twice a month. You know, there was a smoke every week in New York every people had to know where they were, but they will every week and Leah, they won't sanction. There was no doctrine. Listen, I'm going out there and saying, yeah, that don't sound too good. I got you, but we made it good. Yeah, we made a good. We made sure we took care. We've we've made. I know we're still dangerous. It was still the, but you wanna know something. A kid drinking a bottle of vodka day was pretty frigging dangerous. Okay. I had some idiot one time. I was trying to get money for my foundation, and I was explaining to him and he was a political guy, and I was explaining to him when he goes, but you got breakdown richer, Boxing Day. Like I, I was trying to like you when you wanna troll your headset. When you see these? I was like trying to control myself. I'm trying to talk to. I supposed to talk the right guy. Wait guy. I'm going to get money for my foundation that helps these people. Right? So I'm trying to talk to them. And I'm saying. Get brain damage from being out in the street and getting with a pipe to get by because there's the people I'm helping to get brain damage Shaam from doing crack. Do you get brain damage? I did have a kid who drank a bottle of vodka now when he gave to to my program in Dacian that we've run for two years. He's been announced for years. He's been clean. He's back with family was living on the streets. He was were gangs. And when he got into boxing in one of our programs, he he stopped on that, but he was drinking a bottle vodka. Yeahs true fifteen year Lao people say teddy Eddie drink. Yeah, but he was, how do you do it because you have a lot of pain may be whatever whatever. But yeah, he was. And so I said to the guy was trying not to get into an argument, but I was like. Boxing causes brain damaged, but I'm taking guys away. Kids said the alternative is the bottle of the crack, the needle, the pipe on the head or maybe the pipe on else's head where they caused vein damage to someone else. Maybe unfortunately, you one day walking out your house. What about that brain damage that your way of told me know that your way of not giving me what I'm asking for to say that on you think it out a little bit more want to think it out a little and give me a better, excuse one at least understand what would. Yeah, there's a reason why we're doing this. So these kids we would go, we will go the South Bronx and. These kids would walk. You know, like I said, they woke up two steps by time that door opened up and and again, this is how they paid the rent by selling -lica- by charging tree dollars to get in. And selling food and a place would be packed packed. And when the Elwyn by you talk about utopia, we talk a little bit about pressure about, you know what pressure does to you. It can form you could destroy you but perform. You can make you realize what you capable of. You know the greatest thing about what box does for somebody makes them no teddy what is box do for you? Well, jab, you know, you condition you take care of your temple, your body or that stuff. Yes. Sounds good. Teddy gives one thing the box does for and let you know. You could depend on yourself. Let's kid know that he can like himself. We don't know. You can like himself and depend on himself. These gets so. Was it rough? It was rough so way into place and he has no doctor. Here we had no sanctioning organization. We've made own fights. But there was a danger, but I just told you the other dangers. This was taken them in replacing those other dangers, those taking them away from the, you know what? It was. The only positive thing in naval for these kids. It really was was a rough. Yeah. Spots. But I just talked about life is rough. So as these people rougher so it was an alternative to violence people say teddy thought about Boggs of, no, because if you angry which these kids are, if they don't learn to lose that anger, they never become anything boxing because they walk in and get hit. They learned that they control their anger. They could put it somewhere. They learn that take can control themselves. They can depend on themselves to be something positive. So I would take these kids and we will go there and we would only white kids in the place. And they love those. There were funny, the guy who ran Nelson Cuevas he, he's a great guy, but you know, I look at carried a gun in his holster an in his belt felt because he knew could be rough. I mean, I leave pot out to the parents when I was taking them that the proprietor of the place you know has gone in every once in a while he opens his jacket, make sure people remember that he has. Yeah. All right. But they looked out for you. They the kids. I know. I know it sounds contrary, I get it contradictory, but it was these kids. They learn so much about themselves and we protect looked at. We'd looked and when it came time to make the matches the point I was making about wild on, you talked about being long about Sally jump over the place. It's great. But above I, oh, I learned. 'cause told me this, but you have to learn yourself. You see, you have to be in it 'cause told me about it, but that's only part of it. He always told me teddy became would skinny wiry guys. They the greatest punches. Was thinking, you know, this steady greatest punches. He never told me why. Let me figure it out. I saw it. I saw what he get him. Yeah, you know what I mean earns here, but I know why now leverage. Yeah, talk talk, whatever you call. And so anyway. So here we are. And if you saw the guy you knew who to match with, but if you didn't see the guy. You had to pend on other things who's the coach? Certain coaches had no good fight. Certain culture that good size. Another coach does. He have a good relies honest sea lion? Does he have. Does he have opinion that is good or does he just say things? So I'd have to go through all that. If I didn't know the guy, I wouldn't put my kid in with the guy. I was sure what he was sure and was hard because everyone was lying. There was like a cold. Zoll connected to line unfortunately, but but everyone looking for their kid. Like if you said, I give you an exempt because we get who the matchmaker was. I became the matchmaker. With, you know, in the place all-spanish black, but no, Somme me the matchmaker. You'd be the matchmaker. A lot of the people didn't speak English. So you know, we figured out we get there. So I've either. So you make a column the name of the fighter? The weight? Yeah. So you your way, you know, that's one thing you see it. Okay. That's only truth. The rest of it. Got dicey. Okay. How many fights? Most important thing? Most of Borton thing, how many fights zero. Everyone in this place. Got zero phase. Now said, nobody got fighting place even doing this for years. Okay. Here's two code zero fights men's two or three. One, two or three fights meant six to ten. God forbid anyone ever said they had five, six fights anywhere from twenty five to one hundred. Real real. This is the world that I lived in for five six years, took them every five every drove down to the Bronx and got the smoker every week. And so you figured out the cold after a while but responsible for these kids. So you want it every tengible thing you could have. So again, if I wasn't sure how let's guy was lying that he was lying little extra. I would I go to Nelson, you know, this guy, no, but talk to Pablo talk that hell. You know, the guy? No, yeah. He's stay away from no fight, you know, because I'm not taking a chance. But then when you get to the point where you don't really know. Then I would to instincts, come alive, protecting your kid. It's your kit at your kid is much as it's paternally. It's your kid. I remember one time I went up to the guy. I couldn't get enough envel-. I went up to the guy. Would Nelson as an interpreter because he didn't speak English. I said, listen, I know what we do here while I'm telling us about put my kid in with to get beat up if it's fads fat, but not putting them in with a kid that's thirty forty fives. My kid, legitimate legitimately has two fights. I'm telling you. I know we don't do that here, but I'm telling you that's what he's got. If your kids got forty, tell me just tell me and say no fight, and, and I'll shake your hand and that's it, but good. So he kept he stood to story. So we get close in thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking and I'm watching a guy warm up. 'cause always told me what's the guy warm what's up. I watching warm up by about. Bye. Bye. That. This. I mean, I'm pretty good trainer and even without fights, I think I teach them technically what they need to know before they get. But this guy was beyond. I mean, this was Sugar Ray Robinson. So I go back to Nelson. I supreme over here again, ten minutes before the fight. So bring them over again, coal or a little bit of an attitude. So right. Everyone's got attitudes. His business. Is it. Listen. One more time. Just wanna tell you not threatening you. But I have to tell you this. You told me he's got no fights, whatever to them. When the bell rings, if you got over on me. I was wrong, you'll right soon as the buildings. I'm going to see it. I'm gonna know it. There's not new can say afterwards to say to explain it, unknow it and I'll stop the fight if I have to because I'll protect my kid. Right after I do that, I'll be coming over to you. That's gonna say. So please please for you for me, please. If it's if it's if it's what I'm saying, please just just tell Nelson you don't have to tell me just tell Nelson when I leave here. That we're not gonna fight. Now's and came back to me four minutes tree minutes to win his latest said. He said, no, thank you. Tell them. Thank you. Tell them. Thank you. That's the world we lived in that we gotta done. We gotta done though. Joe we did. We really did, and thank God that someone like you was able to understand that there is a big difference and that you can. You know these guys at sandbag like that. It's very, very common and yeah, and see, they think the gaining something because you know what I mean is just wanna Faulk somebody. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but let me tell you. So my kids, I mean, like when when we first thought fighting, they had bungled trumpsters high. I, I mean, my kids had never seen. I didn't see bungled drums, what am I saying. But they were this high Bongo and they win the ring. They only came out when when when we got ready to fight and play Bongos and you know, great music. I mean, really, it was, you know, but you know what? When him and that bangel music and you're in the ring and you're talking to the kidney corner and they're outside now with the bungles and plane of boggles. And you talk. That's an atmosphere. Yeah, that's different. That's real experience experience. That's life experience. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's not taught in the classroom and and my kids have to six years of that because that's about how long did it. And I was up to seven years training for cost. So. I'm telling you my kids grew up. They go to, they go on to be pros and did they go on to be Olympic now, but they took that and they used it to be better at what they did into to have the confidence to do things they might not have had the confidence to do without that experience. I got a couple of them that are state troopers. I got a couple of that. Teach us in high school. I got a, you know, all different things. A couple of college that that the nobody knew in the history of their family ever went beyond high school and they went to college and they were kind of told you never gonna go to. They went to college and I, I would like to believe it had something to do with that. You know? And I lot of people asking you who was your great because I Tyson to that, you know, he was, he became on. And I remember it was funny because when I put it down, like I said, everyone lied about the experience, but you know, they lied about everything, but I would put down the, you know, the the age and everything else all the stuff for what it was worth. You had to have something to try to believe in vita, then figure it out from there. So Tyson when I first had him, he was one hundred ninety pounds, not the muzzle twelve years old. Okay, that's what it was, but that's what he was. I mean, that's what God may so free. So I go down and I put I fight nobody seen Tyson nobody's ever saying, but twelve years old zero phase. Okay. Now you go to, you lie more than. You, you learn a lot from us. Thanks. That's a complimentary. I think knows and that's a compliment. I mean I'd take as it is right, right. I'm not like twelve years ago, hundred ninety pounds. Please. Please. Please. Now's, I'm not lying. Okay. He's twelve years old. It's going to be thirteen soon, but he's technically twelve years older gay. Comer. I said, I make you feel better. Put down seventy. Thank you. Now you tell the truth. I said. That said. But I knew what I what I saw. I fought a seventeen year old. I wasn't gonna fight. Notorious. That was gonna happen. Right? And plus I get arrested for murder. So what was he like physically mentally, weak, but physically, what do I mean? Mentally weak? Not week for the average guy, but before fighter. He's still have remnants. He's still had residual. Stuff from his upbringing. Listen, you know the truth about the guy. I mean, you healed, but he used to hide in between abandoned building walls in Brownsville was a rough place. No doubt about it did have a follow, whatever the model of whatever and he he used to hide between walls to not get picked on. And I believe when you do that, you never get outside of that wall to a certain extent, you're always hiding all for the rest of your life that might believe teddy. Would he talking about became everywhere. Champs, people think he's great. It's. I don't have his record in front of me and is gonna blow some people crazy. But what are you gonna do. I don't have his record. That's just say, we're going to make an arbitrary number because you man's gonna pull it up. But let's just say it's fifty and six. I was say, five, fifty five, but whatever. I think is record. Truly, if you're going to be this when truly in life with anything. But if we're truly truly in an absolute world which we don't live in, but I would say he's all five. Now everybody's everyone who's listening to you think it's just like, let me get what Teddy's drinking. Like I don't see him. Drinking buddy. Probably had some before he came in. To me of fight is not a fight into this resistance to there's something to overcome something to overcome. Otherwise, just an athletic venture, it's an exhibition. I think life is that I think the you don't know of a lawyer's Eloy into into some overcoming courtroom. Something goes all. Okay. I, I know he's a lawyer. I know he went to, I get it. Nobody to tell that, but he ain't a lawyer. He ain't that until everything goes on. The judge draws crap out and he's, he is aft so to speak, and he figures and he still handles it. Then he's a lawyer. A doctor's not adopt into. He opens up his kid a kid just like he's got it home and auto resume bleeding all over the place. And it's not in a textbook. It's not an official textbook and he got to do it. He got a figure it out, and he got then he's a doctor that he's a surgeon at that level. You you're not. You are not in a fight. I look, I, I admit I acquaint life to fight. I do. You're not in a fight. And so this pressure resistance overcoming something. Otherwise, it's just an exhibition. Tyson's talent was so great. His physical ability, his talent was so overwhelming. Just like somebody intellect to some bodies, charisma, whatever beauty until it came to something else, but his talent was so superior that the other stuff never got tested. He was blown guys out and he had never got tested if there was anything in the Wales, so to speak. Was anything inside you never knew, and then five times whatever the real records five times there was resistance. Five times it became a real fight. Five times there was something to overcome, and he failed five times who was only in fights in his life and he's owned five. I'm sorry, Sal, graves, because we know my history with them. Right. My my, my capable of damn Newman. Yeah, but I can honestly tell you. That I. I, I try to be better than that. That that I've called many fights with people knew corn. I couldn't stand him. I had no respect for them. But if they if they did a good job in a corner to fight it, I talked to about them like they were Ray all cell. Like they will address Sunday because that's what it was supposed to be. That's all. And it selfish because I don't want I wanna have, I wanna know and I want my kids to know that I can be better than that. That that it's it's about. It's about the cold of of the profession. It's about you. It's about you believe in that, would you say is. Should be honest. It should be what you believe it shouldn't be tainted or or influenced by less things that that it does represent you does represent, family does represent where you came from. It does stay, you know you, you're blurted out for those five minutes or maybe two hours on ESPN, but it stays so we can go back to it. You could go back to it. How do you feel about it? Does mean? So it really does. And so I'm only saying that because I would say about somebody else in the way that I calibrate things the way that I evaluate things that I don't think that you know crap about somebody and to the tested. You don't know the friend, you know, know if they're good wife. You don't know if the girlfriend, you don't know crap, you think you do but into their really tested, you don't really know and Tyson when he got tested when he had overcome some when when he didn't run them over, like like one of those big monster trucks running over Volkswagen because he was a monster truck Volkswagen's. Yeah, he was. Yeah, was. And was he wanted to greatest punchers oil? Yeah, yes. Could he punched from either side of the plate like Mickey Mantle, the greatest switch hitter? Was he that in buy? Yes, he could punch evenly great with the hand from either side. Was he all those things? Yes. Was. He is great. Intimidators sunny, listen. Yes. Was a great finisher like Joe lose to a certain extent. Yes. But it wasn't a great fighter. Because great fighters when the fight came to them. They found a way to do what they had to do. He found a way to disappear. They found the way to show up. Yes, show up. He found the way to go and not show up. And look, you go talk to psychiatry and you go all the reasons why the hiding between wall when he was a kid. Yeah, that's part of it. I tell, you know the point of it. To be that not to be the power puncher not to be the aggressor, not to be just those things to be tightened to be the Viking. To be the samurai to be the warrior to be those things has to be inside you. You have to believe it. You know, a lot of times people lie in life to certain place. You can't lie. You know, sometimes we say that the rings of truth, you know, it sounds good and all that, but it is because just just like another places in life too. When the moment comes. For those kind of serious things. You have to feel like that you say that you're the conqueror ags ended the great y'all, those things I okay, word. Sounds great. Makes good sound bites. Probably bring more people to the TV, but when the moment comes and you didn't intimidate the guy that didn't work. Okay. We all try to a certain extent. Right? Probably. Yeah, I'm sure you've looked at guys certain ways when you were younger and you'd purposely looked at them in a way to invoke a certain. Kind of action. Certain kind of result from them. Just just look at them in a real serious way that you hope that we can them. Yeah, and, but because I know your background, you will prepare to what came after that, but some people Aren some people aren't. And Tyson wasn't as great as he was. I just said it. He's great guys that hate me for today, your hero, whatever your favorite guy, he's great. Just not great and his area. And when that moment comes. You have to. That's where the truth matters. You have to believe. That you really that guy at if your guy that listen, he was convicted. So I think it's fair that rape somebody, okay. Now, listen, I wasn't Inara Rome and I don't know allow people. Okay. But it was convicted or but I know enough people in the business that there was a lot of the bad things that he did that it just not things that that you would probably want to hang around with somebody if you know if you have way decent human being that he did double week things. Okay, weekdays. So when you do wreak things and you know you did though, and I don't know what bump just saying you do week things and you know they will week things and now you gotta do strong thing. How do you become strong when you know that you did those week things? And you know, that's really you, and you got a guy across way from your name Vanda Holly field. That doesn't give a shit about how hard you punch doesn't give a crap about what a finish. Your does a give crap about how fast you put your punches together. He wants to find you're going to have to make him a belief, but by doing it. At doing in a difficult place because he's gonna make it difficult because he ain't gonna cooperate. When that happens, you gotta feel like that person and when you don't feel like that person. You got a problem. And as what happened wasn't a matter when he bit his ear was a matter that hungry was the savage and he was from the suit, stop the crap. As a way to get out. Because he knew he wasn't that guy. When you're not that guy, guess what you have a great talent of recognized when somebody is. As great his talent. He can recognize when somebody is recognized that the Holyfield was. And I was his way to get out. And he did. So that's why. Again, it's our grapes. It's really not because I'm more selfish than that. I really do care about. My reputation is and whether or not I've been honest about things I say, doesn't mean I'm right, but means I believe it. I do care about that. I do. And so it's not. That doesn't mean I'm right, but means I have a reason to believe on my for the way of live from what I've seen. What of experienced in the business, the human condition. How strong it could be and how we can be. And. He was a strong guys you ever gonna see, but he was his week, a person as you ever gonna find. Intense, but I see what you're saying in terms of, you're judging it by the highest enters possible. You're judging it in comparison to other champions. You're judging you. Yeah, of course. Well, you look at guys who are known for incredible heart and their ability to come like Diego Corrales. Dale Corrales in some of those wars when you would would steal? Yes, that was one of the greatest fights. Volta farsm credible greatest fight of Mickey ward atro- Gary, the first one. Second. Third, I I hunt believable. Unbelievable. I mean, if you wanna go back, if you wanna go back for the most people will know this, but Bobby cone was involved in on fourthly, paid the price. Okay. Yes. But Bobby cone in the seventies eighties. He was involved in those five every other day, just kidding. But he was invite Winnie of those fight. Yeah. And unfortunately, you don't know about Bobby Cohen. You talk to somebody again, like the baseball thing you talk about the average bobby's call thous that. Who the hell's that unfortunately is the guy would know his name anymore. But he's a pretty special guy. He was pretty damn tough. Tougher than most people. There's guys that unfortunately relied on that toughness, right? Yeah. Like when you when it comes to guys known for incredible chins. That can be a detriment. Yes, and it can be. That's all you have. Do you think that's 'cause put it this way because just because you want me to be a great trainer. So 'cause she's always be with me all you know saying and 'cause would say day. Too tough guys. Got you. Now, what's tough to prerequisite to be in a fight. You better be tough, but what level it's all levels degrees. I got you. But how specials being tough? Because if you're fighting should be tough. I got you. I'm listening. So you got to tough guys. But one of them is smart. Taught. Developed. That's him. He's tougher now. That's how he explained tougher because he's smart. Yeah, tough and smart. He he goes from here. He's here because he's not just dependent only on toughness. So he's tougher than this guy. Right? Because you don't have to depend on just that right. You might not even have to get to it. It's das- reserve. It's always data call on like an army you call on, you need it. Right. But he's not dependent just on that. Isn't that the balanced though is knowing that you have it knowing that you have it and they're, they did see what you just said. Yeah, you have to know that you're it. Yeah. Tyson didn't know he was it. We ever met that probably knocked me and say whatever I don't. It's okay. And so again, I it's okay. Well, there's certain people that you can't question and Vanda Holyfield is one of those people. That's why that fight was so fascinating because of feel was he is a one hundred percent warrior. Well, you had to write nickname. Most of them don't. Most of them don't have the right fight nickname in whatever they do. Right real, the real deal. He was the real deal. Yeah. And why small heavyweights wanna know why. I mean trace it back 'cause always told me this, but I learned it in eight lay on my own too, but trace it back to the parents trace it back to the background tracer trace it back to all that stuff, trace it back. He did. He didn't live up to something he didn't face something he didn't do. Whatever was that was he had a mother that he talked about a few times and I'm event of not saying exact, but, but it's it's there. That and a great model, obviously. But she they had the crop and Georgia was Lanta of whatever suburb of children. And she is different age, different time down south and all that had a little, I guess, a little shack in back with a thing called twitches switch switches. I'm sorry. I'm twitch. Switches. And. She basically had different size switches, you know, short ones, long ones, medium ones, the pendant on the occasion. And when he didn't live up to what he had to tell the truth, whatever be accountable k.. Face what he had to face, whatever she had a switch for him. And you know what. EDEM it formed him because he face things. Tyson Tyson, on the other hand, listen, did he ask for it? No. You didn't ask for that upbringing. I get it, but I know people have that upbringing in. They get to a point they can make a left. Turn that writer as your ability. I think there's also the the overwhelming hype and celebrity involved in Mike Tyson is prime. It was probably so difficult for him to even understand himself. Yeah, but but what he did understand and I'm good. You said that. Backwards what he did on what he did understand. Was there was a way out of and alert there was no way out. You know, oppose away. You know what I mean? For sure somebody would come and pay. Yeah, and he did a lot of things before he became champion, and somebody was always there with a check of cash, whatever, and would absolve him from it would would not have to face what he did. Right. And there was a switch that of face and that's what made him what it made him. And that's what allow Tyson part of would move out Tyson. You look, you make your own choices in point life, so it's not make too many excuses, but it is part of it that that he was formed by what he was allowed to do when he shouldn't have been allowed to do those things. That was one of the issues that you had with cost, right? Yeah. The you felt like cost was ignoring his own principles and teaching because this guy was so special. Yeah, and was getting older and cuss recognize he didn't have much time left in this guy had a legitimate shot being a world champion because everything in his Yuna, everything in the world of boxing success and everything is great. He was special costs all live. He didn't get married for reason because he was married to boxing. He said that it wouldn't been fair. I mean, this was a different guy that boxing, his whole everything. Life was box and lessons connected to boxing everything and principles, boxing, and. So there's a, you know. There's a guy that his whole, he'll you use that word legacy, but really has whole systens was boxing. And for him, it was heavyweight champs. He had Floyd Patterson, youngest heavyweight. Champ of that was caused that was wasn't about lightweights. Listen. He had lightweights. He had wealth Wade sells a tour. Yeah, Jose toys, light heavyweight champion. Exactly, right. He had other guys too, but it was the heavyweight champion of the world because it was around where we talked about before. When box was the biggest board bigger than baseball, and it was the heavyweight. Champ of the world was Babe, Ruth. Came out Seattle and that, and you'll going to say that before you leave this earth that you have a chance to have it other heavyweight champ that might be the best could be one of the best of and could break Paterson's record, which was part of the plan. Part of the plan when cuss was alive, you're gonna break Patterson's, he broke it. He became the youngest heavyweight champion. And so when you float that out there, if you will and Tempe guy with that, even a great guy like, 'cause some things are going to be pushed to the site and he things yeah compromise. And he did. Do you think if he didn't do that Tyson would have been a different person. I'm going to use his words. That was told to me by crate, promoted Maki, Duffy passed away. It was close to, Jim Jacobs was close to cause and he was up there sometimes after I left and all that, and Mickey wanted me to train fighters and he was a great promoter Mickey. He had great saints. He was a very witty guy, but he was a shop Guy. Fawkes was his life to and he ran everything in London with three partners. One of them was offices stay who own Wembley stadium. So they were powerful. They ran everything. They were the cartel in London back in those days. He told me. That before caused died that 'cause hit said some nice things about teddy atlas. But he said and looks. I know there's a danger that this can be convenient. You know what I mean? Self-serving crap. Sometimes you gotta trust whatever. I was told by Mickey that he said that. Teddy atlas was right away was wrong, who's going to get in the way of the possibility of making a great fighter. If he did things his way, as far as the disciplining in whatever. In other words, whether he left it like that. So I don't know. So I know what I think it meant that Tyson wouldn't have been around of did the discipline that he would have laughed. I don't know because I don't know that he had those options because he was award of the state. And you know he was coming out of obviously a criminal situation who's coming out of two detention center called trion about side of thirty miles outside all buzney you know. So I don't know that he but basically that if teddy did it his way he was right, but he was wrong because it would have ruined the Basel voting for great fighter, and I could let that happen. So I don't think that's, I don't know if it's true. Actually. I don't know. You know what I was about to say. I don't think that's true. Because of course it's me right. I want to make myself feel good. So I wanna say you could have the best boat world who could have maybe a better person all within the realm of a better person right boundaries, right there were no boundaries. Maybe they would have those boundaries would have made a difference. Right. And you still would have to talent you so talent wasn't going to dissipate because of the discipline. You know that you put on them as human being that wasn't going to change, but 'cause because saying that it wasn't going to happen, maybe lose them, maybe goes to someone else at a certain point as development. Maybe that's what he meant. I don't know what you had that with Shannon kids. Chen Briggs? Yes. Shannon brings came from Brownsville when he was. I had him as a young, you know, developing pro, we got to point, oh, you also have that situation with him. You felt like he wasn't one hundred percent in. He wasn't doing the things you wanted him to do. He was. He was lacking in a certain amount of discipline. In or it was distracted in a certain amount of ways that bothered you to the point. We didn't wanna work with them anymore. It wasn't committed. I didn't think completely, but he was a smart kid. Take Hewlett kit talented, talented, very talented smart. You know, he knew how to market himself at the dread logs, and he made them all, and you know nobody was doing that back then. That he could punch. It was. Look good, you know? Yeah. But his real commitment, I didn't think because and maybe in the two twos credit, he had other. He was smart and he thought of other things, but. He never really bought in. That is the end all boxing, that that that was the complete. I don't wanna use just. Average same standard word commitment, right? Like what? The figures that sometimes like commitment, but. More than commitment. He said, all the right things because they had investors and they had different people instead of bad thing. Everyone they, if you wanted enough, you draw those kind of things to his credit. He deserved it. He did something to bring investors and people to back them. But he got so used to say what they needed to hear. That he never knew what he needed to hear. He never. He what he needed to hear him believe was that I'm really going to do it. He he got so good at selling it that he never got good buying it. He never really. He just taught that right has trained and to. Right is trained to our falloff to comes to track to comes to a stop, but it is going to come to a stop and I'm not saying everyone can have that confidence. Everyone can have that believe. I'm not saying that, but you have to get it somewhere sometime. He didn't believe that the train was really going here. He believed that it was just going to go to a place where it was going to be better that way was and that that herreid as long buddy. He's not committed to stay on it when when when attorneys come up and it gets a little fast, he he's, he doesn't believe that he's really gonna get there. He believes that would not. I turn second turn. Third turn, whatever on rails comes. That's gonna be it, but it's going to be took them better place that he was at it, earned them, some money got him some things and and it was good, but he never really. There's that word committed, but he never really believed and a lot of people don't. They. I find their way along the way, but he never believed that what he told the people around them that he was going to be. He never believed that his personality was too good. His personality was to shop. He, he, he, he, he could say, all the right things and became easier to say the right things then to believe the right thing. Does that make sense? It does make sense this uncompromising psychology of combat sports, uncompromising philosophy. Is this something that you got from causes something you inherently understood from working closely with these guys and taking these smokers in the South Bronx? Who where does this come from? Just ro honesty seen it all. Listen. The comes from again, you don't wanna be corny, but comes from living turn way life, seeing things, traveling through thing, has part of it. Definitely. But the the articulation of it. The blueprint a map of to seeing of visualization of on paper comes from 'cause who's a genius? He was DeVos's world. The theory of it. That's the better way the theory of it comes from. 'cause the living the doing of it comes from my father. I had a father that most box and people don't come from. Although Pereira did great Mexican fighter, but he came from something like that. He was his. He wanted to be a lawyer actually, but anyway, and you'd think Mexico you think he came from the, you know, the dirt flaws and stuff, which a lot of guys come from and you know, they pull themselves and that's part of the obviously the motivation, but. My father was a doctor who was a GP practice five years, STAN on New York again from the Bronx sat on. He founded two hospitals. He built house for twenty two beds in it was called Sunnyside. Some. I don't know if that stuff even existed in Google back then. But anyway, Sunnyside hospital, and he built a so that. Whole people listened, but he built his so poor people. He was. He grew up very poor. He, he just he wasn't that kind of always because he just he built his hospital. So that. The less of people with less could get hospital camp because back in those days, there were no HMO's. Was Noah? Bama care? There was no, you know whether you think it's good. It's bad. It said it doesn't matter. There was nothing. He wound up in a clinic may be you unless you had a doctor that that took care and he was and all the doctors. He wasn't the only one, but he was the one only one I knew and he founded Sunnyside hospital for twenty two beds in lesson about twenty five years and to the verrazano bridge was built. The city put the highway in there as changed that obviously connected Brooklyn sat down, didn't have to take ferryboat and he. The city board from and anyone in found doctors hospital with sixty other doctors. But he was original founder, heaven guy named Dr Tim poem senior. He found doctors, which is a big hospital at thirty years. It was a big hospital, but so he was a guy that. He didn't waste time. Tell me out a live and all that stuff. The only thing I remember was say some doing. Was I mean, and then I watched them as a kid. He was my hero. I mean, I like Mickey Mantle and I like Joe Louis all those things and just like any other kid. But if I had a here, I didn't know what a hero was a mug gonna make believe I knew, but I know now what it's supposed to mean. Right? So he was my heel. And I just. I watched him. You know when. I went in his room one time when he graduated NYU they didn't have money. So he had to get scholarship. He had to get help from different thing, whatever they had to do, but he got, he went, ten, y, you medical school and why you undergrad and any intern to Bellevue which that's he wasn't a big talk. But he told me he did tell me when you graduated Bellevue, you ready for anything. So later in my life, I took that as to sell Funk's. You graduated to South Bronx smokers, you ready for anything. You learned that you're ready for anything. You learn how to match make you ready. You learn how to be a training. You're ready for everything. So he. In, oh, he, he came. He did not door one when he was. It was in turning Bellevue young guy. You know, apparently he saved some obese woman's life that had a heart attack in the street. He dragged dragged off the street, whatever. You never get the whole story, but he saved a life and. He developed a hernia at grew into a double hernia, and my father was a kind of guy. He didn't let anything into few his patients as work. He didn't take time to get it. So he carried it for thirty years and he finally got, you know, and so become a double her. I know hernias now they do the machinate do laze in there. But in those days it was a more serious thing who's evasive surgery. It was different. It was and it was painful apparently. And I did not going to so young kid, you know, very young by so remember, and it was a mirror here and he was over there. News bed in the mirror was here. So I opened the door. I didn't hock sugar knocked obviously, and I saw he was bent over in pain. I mean, I recognize and he was wearing the thing. I had no idea. It was like. I didn't know what the figures that, but it was probably not probably need you again to giving the proper pronunciation. Thank you for, but it was trust. I think it was talk as guts. Yeah, yeah. It was leather was things like, and I was like, I don't know what the figures that you know and I, but I could see was in pain, and he had this thing on and he got mad. Told me to get out and. For the rest of my young life. I knew there was some wrong. I knew he was in pain every day and he never showed it. He never uses cues. He worked every day including Sunday. Has office house would joke because of it said on the thing, you know four thirty. He stayed to nine thirty because he didn't leave the last patient left and most more and paying them. You know he, he took the patients that other doctors didn't take took all the Medicare, Medicaid, whatever was whatever the right one is basically welfare. He took all of them and you know he made the, he had the biggest practice on Steinem, maybe the biggest New York. So all the all the all the drug salesman. They, they all migrated to his place. You wanna get his account. Doc to sell the new stuff to sell the drugs to sell the pills, and he used them. He didn't hide it, but he made. He made them give them Utah amount of samples. You know why? Because his patients couldn't afford to fill the prescriptions. So we would give him the free samples. I used always wonder what the free quality in our house. You open up a closet. There was like things fallen on you. You know, the pills and stuff like what is and, but it was so he could give it to them. So they didn't have to prescription because they didn't. Again, there was none of those things that pay for your prescriptions that they do today and they couldn't afford it. They couldn't afford to go to him, but he charged them tree dollars, five dollars. Whatever, whatever was that they could afford and you know, he made money. I mean, he was a doctor, but he didn't make the money that other doctors will making. But he was a real doctor of eight for me at least, and, but more importantly, he didn't talk about it. He did it and he every day he was in pain later on a little older, but it was still a young teenager. I saw him put a white pill under his tongue. I didn't know what the freak that was I later on I found out it was nitro that has hardwood, put skip beats, but he's still didn't say a word didn't talk about it. You know if he didn't have a son who thought he was his hero, he I wouldn't have known because I looked at everything he did. And you know he, he did house calls. He did house calls to his eighty years old, charging five dollars, whatever nothing he had patients that could not get to an emergency room. They didn't have the ability to get there. They didn't have a car. They wouldn't shape where they couldn't get their couldn't take a bus, whatever. But so he did house calls and pays when he died. They all said, hey, sometimes you have to wait to one in the morning, but he got there. That was the thing he always got to. He always delivered. And with all those things that I knew was you know, his kid. He never used it made an excuse. And he was a fighter. You know, in in own way, he was to, you know, he was the best fighter of his sore and he didn't talk about it. He didn't articulate it. You know, he didn't wax poetic about it, like costed cause was a great man. But he did it that he did right in front of my face. And. And it stayed with me. You know, I didn't understand a lot of two. I got older. But then suddenly I understood all of it. So if somebody says, hey. You know, I can't do this because you know last night my girlfriend, my wife yelled at me and she caught me with a girl. She did. I mean, I don't wanna hear it. I don't wanna hear it. And listen was, of course to me to in some ways. It's not perfect because when my father died, I went to, I went to the funeral and then I went to gym Antonio body and listen. I probably shouldn't. A lot of people would probably say he can't live your life that way by what people say, I get it, but I'm just saying I'm aware of it. All right. A lot of people said, you shouldn't went to the gym. My father, we lost her kid. He was five years old and I wasn't going to say this because I don't know how some people say, but if it is it is right. So you could take away. You wanna take. I know the kind of Manny was, but. You talked about commitment, absolute limits. You talked about certain things, right? Maybe this explain some of it. We had little Todd. He was all brother. He was born with with problems whose retarded you don't use that word anymore. But those days it was okay to use that word. That's what he was a guy. Now, of course, you say that it was impaired not the Liam pad, whatever. Okay, so beautiful kid. I remember. I was old. I was the oldest. He was very loving. I remember used to jump into my arms when I come home. So I know he was very trusting because I would walk up two steps and he jumped from the steps if I didn't catch them, obviously would have fell. So as part of his condition. But it was part of his loving and his his trust. So when he was five years old, he had to get surgery. He had a problem was hot soaping hawsers we opened on resulted in story back then. Right. And where did he get out of racing? Yeah, he did in my father's hospital, but father did not perform the surgery. Of course. You're not going to do that, but it was. There was few searches might have been five, whatever was. And. My mother was the opposite here. My father was owned, Gary Jewish background. You know, he had no father. He died young, his mother, they were very poor. My mother grew up poor to she was Irish Irish Catholic. Defend mix and my father didn't have time for religion. Why time for that time for living of healing people. So he led pe- put up Catholic was up to my mother. And. So he. They were different. They would. The opposites. Mother was beautiful, who's miss Staten? Island mother didn't let her father died. Also young. Her mother was tough Irish woman, and she my grandma. She, she did not allow from winning Mr.. Now's you're supposed to go to obviously to Miss America. She wouldn't let it go. I'd say right out. She thought that was a horse like like, you go, do you know? Even though she wanted, she led that was cute, but now you're gonna go Miss America. You're gonna go, no, we're not. She said, no, you're not doing it. And she had a chance to go and try out for the rock cats which most people out there know what they are. The dance group in. Radio City Music. Oh, no, that's for those people to know. So too is beautiful and she had a great personality and she's she love social life, and sue was the end TIs of my father and a lot of ways. And I guess opposites attract. And if you wanna make a movie out of it, she was sick. He. She wasn't getting better and my father was in hospital. He was in his patient was in his room, whatever, whatever he became a doctor and help to get better. She had a form of Titus. I can the days when you didn't get it from needles only. He could get it from eating a bad clam, whatever. I dunno, whatever it is a mugging to tell you because I don't know for sure, but and she was very sick and anyway, he he took care of and they got married, fell in love and all that stuff. So you know. Just. My father was. Like I said, my father was he, he was dedicated to to that life. But the thing that he did that I started to say, and I want to give that background guess, but. My my, my mother was very emotional. My father's a doctor. He hit his emotions. And when Todd one for surgery, he died on the operating table. He had told my mother, my father, never lied. He told the risk, but my mother wanna believe was wanna believe my mother said, you said he would be okay. You know, he didn't say that put you know. But of course, my mother, my father was high too. You know, made her better can't make your son better. So he died. We all got split up. I live with a on cold that was single, and it was a very handsome guy just so we had girlfriends coming in and out all the time. And you know, he was, you know, he was John good looking guy and like to go out and I wind up sitting in a ball weight and form. I get a lot of bags of potato chips. A lot of cokes you know, he finally come back. I have eight cokes in front of me. Maybe ten. You know, and we got split over. My mother was sleeping in a cemetery. She had a nervous breakdown. You know, she got himself together, she overcame it, but. Never forgave him. At. You know, she was. I always in the easy things to Irish course and all that stuff. But you know, she drank. But. She. She's a great woman, but you know, she was tragically hurt. And you know everyone copes with things differently and she, it was it was difficult and that day with all of what I just described. Again, I'm always afraid to say it, but you say because it it's part of it, right. Maybe it explains maybe maybe some people ordered against when I say this, but he got a phone call that day on his answering service, you didn't have pages. In those days. He had an answering service. He told them to call them. When he had requests for house calls to in the morning as a kid. I used to hear the phone ring who is two in the morning. I started getting dressed. I came out and I was on the stairs waiting to gull. A, he looked at me, what were you doing? I'm going. No, you're not get back in the mall. You know, sometimes you let me go with them and. Anyway, this day obviously was a different day, and those of his patient has patients daughter had trialed who's very, very sick. She did not know that has the mother knew, but the daughter in no, that his son died that day that is son was buried that they should say. So she call. He went and did house call. On a day that is, you know. That son, God Perry. You know, that's tough. But that was what you know. That's what has you know that's what his. So when people tell me that they can't keep a commitment because this happened, it doesn't go with me. That's all. And that day after bury my father, I went to the gym. And I train Michael Moore. Because I was, you know, that's what I was doing. That was my talk. Character. Real character. I mean, what it is it is, but whatever it is. That's true. You know, call it whatever, name, whatever noise you wanna make. Does not a lot of people like that explains a lot. Explains a lot about your unyielding. Understanding and appreciation of real commitment. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's, that's that's. And it's almost don't have a choice because. To not. Listen, you just do it, but to not follow that. In some ways. It's, it's like you're not honoring your father. Because you fathers leave you certain things, you know, they leave you, you know something in the well, maybe they leave you whatever. They might leave your special trinket of something that you always remember call a little thing, whatever. But they leave you something. If you fortunate enough to have fun. When on that, everyone is I get it, but when they leave you that. You got to. Got a Chevy shit. You should. And that's what he left me. So to be, it's not that I'm a good guy or bad guy, all great guy, or let's anything I'm not. I'm not any of that, but. A loyal to that because. You should be loyal to that. That makes sense. I mean, you know, loyal to that idea loyal to that living loyal to that, that. That stance that he took and living his life, that belief that you know. Principle of living whatever you wanna call code of whatever you all those words that make, you know, sound better, but. I would feel that I. Not doing it that way. When you look to have a man, that kind of taught you what he torture without talking too much and might be the greatest teacher is by seeing right. Examples of it. But if you don't honor that. Then you not own your father. What he stood for. And at the end of the day, I was pissed because. For everything that he did. There's not. There's no, I know that sounds foolish, but there's no statue of him. And so. For me, this should be something. Because he did it as whole life. You know, we all have moments of. Of light of moments of. Where we maybe worry about what's what's dad when we're gone and where we're going, and maybe we change and I've seen it. I've seen with friends, I get it. I understand, but where we start trying to live differently because we, we start wondering about what's coming next when we're gone, that whatever you know, but what's there. And so we start thinking about that a little bit. Maybe I've seen people influenced by that. I have you have to, I'm sure. And he was influenced by that. It was just what he was. It was that his whole life. And the only thing that I can think, because I try to put pieces together a little bit of what he how he got that way and. All I know from people when he died, patients come up to you the great and they wanna tell you something, you know and they, they told me, you know that they will pull on on the neighborhood and everything of neighborhood Camaron his heart down by the water in Staten Island rough place, you know, and. They told me that his mother was a tough woman. Cedar of tough woman and they was three sons, you know, and Ridgely from they won't born. They were born here, but you, they will from from Europe, you know, and they had a just, you had to be what the mother. The mother told them what they had to be. She told each one, what you're going to be. The oldest was my father, like I was the oldest and Eugene, you're going to be all too danced. He became an orthodontist ferry success. Reynolds, you're going to be an engineer Boeing aircraft, unbelievably successful, lived in Seattle Feodor the oldest favorite and all you're not supposed to have a favorite, but it's real right. You have. It's. You're going to be a doctor. My oldest son, you're going to be a doctor. He wanted to be a Bill. You wanted to build. He did both. He built over one hundred fifty thousand stand on. He built and things and fuck. Did he do that? He did it as he was a doctor. How did they have the time he ball yet contractor, you know, guy that did, but he he did that because that was his passion. Well, he did not smarter than him. She was smarter than anyone. He was supposed to be a doctor. He was one of the greatest diagnostic doctors ever. I know it's my father. I know the whole thing I get it, but he really was you walked in new, what was wrong with you? There's a great again. We don't know the bay thing. We don't know the complete truth to it, but there's a great legendary story that guy walked in. He had been to mayo clinic. He had been to John Hopkins. He had been everywhere was dying. That's all they know who's dying, losing weight, falling apart, dying, and nobody could diagnose. He walked into this place where you had to wait five hours to see him because of line was out the door because was had all. The poor people, and it was cigarette burns on all the rugs. And she was like, where am I? But when you got home, you knew where you are, and he went, is somebody sent them? They went there and my father may all the patients leave, and he gave himself into section. That's the legendary story. And I asked him about it and I, it was a name. I couldn't tell you the name, whatever. He laid it real simple. He said, because he knew I watched movies and we all watched movies, and we all all things from different times. And he said back in those days, it would have been called leprosy with some kind of cancer. An against it was contagious part to whatever, and he got everyone other office and he diagnosed the guy game selfish shot. Give himself shot. Yeah. Yeah. To, I guess, I guess so, I guess so. I mean, that's the story, right? And. He said to me, the only definitive thing I know about that story and it was a main of you know, some, but was that. I bragged to my form, you're smarter than all these other doctors. And he said no amount. And I said, would you found that these other place. Big hospital, big problem. I'm not a big hospital. Pig hospitals, bigger problems. So what do you mean they have to do things fast and would lodge numbers? I don't. So they have to. It has to make sense something stole make sense. So he told me he said, so there's particularly, they're smarter than me. They knew the characteristics of the, they knew the symptoms. They knew that it fit in here, but that hadn't been around for forty years in continental United States, whatever you said to me, but I remember it was something like that. It hadn't been around for forty. Maybe it was sixty, but whatever it hadn't been around. So they move right past that because they, they have to go is a big hospital. They gotta go quick. They'll have to. He says. It didn't make sense to them because it wasn't around forty years, but he says, if it is almost like walks, talk quacks like a duck, maybe it's doc, so he just stayed. He could stay with that. They couldn't stay with that. And he stayed with news right. And. He did a lot of things like that. He was famous for that. He was famous for people coming from Brooklyn coming from an ad and coming over there to see this diagnostic genius in this little basement office with people up of out the block, like the waiting for McDonald's or pizza, and. And it costs less to McDonald's to a certain extent, you know, because if didn't have money in charge, like I said, but he but he may money of course, but he didn't make the money of the and he was tell you great story. To be to have a nursing home. Maybe this explains the best to have a nursing home. You had to have open on stand on, guess anywhere in New York. You had to have a doctor who was signed on as the medical director. The problem was they couldn't pay because the nursing homes won't really make money. So you just had to have a doctor would be they're not of really wanted to do it. So my father was of medical director and just just bear with me. I'm going to say of eight nursing homes might have been five might have been nine. So I would go with them on house calls. That's how I hung out with him. So I go with the money and homes. So of course he didn't get paid. He was directed, but he figured if he was that, he never told me this, but I think it's okay to say it. He figured if I'm going to be there, I'm gonna go see the patients. I'm not. So he didn't have to, but he went once a week and he went into each nursing home and I went with him when I was with him and he saw the patients. So there's one day we go win and he's like. He he gets treated like royalty. I mean, he comes in staff comes running from all the nurse stays. They all come on. You know, maybe feel good. I was like, well, I'm with demand, so I'm following him around going down the hallway. He's very humble. He really truly is that word is overused. But this guy was beyond like the rector thing would go this way. The needle of is ridiculous. He get mad if you said some good about so. They will come. Hey, you have to chart. Yeah, come on. So he's looking at the charts to change his medicine, give them one hundred mil. You know, the typical stuff that I know from watching Dr Kildare. Right. So. He's looking, you know, and he's doing saying he's going on around how old I was, but young ten. Levin. Oh, so found all of a sudden is woman. Do you ever see? I dunno jumping around with these things you ever see the movie was that comedy guide that was around back then and he said, like pride of Frankenstein and he del Brooks? Yeah, it was what it has movies and a brighter Frankenstein. The white hairs like, yeah, this woman was the bride of Frankenstein. She comes running out and she's the shelf and she was like, have nude and gown was fallen off, and she's an older lady and her white hair was like that. And she comes and she's yelling, incoherent screaming, and they jump and they jump on start putting straps around, I guess, like the old white code, I guess. And apparently she was tied up to a bed. You know, obviously back knows they didn't know how to deal with the now people the way you know as a whole different thing. I mean, we're talking years ago and so they had a tied up and she got loose and her gown was falling off and sees. And so they jump on Tyner and I'm watching as woman get mugged. In a nursing home than my father's. The medical director of and all of a sudden, said legal, and he's still looking into charts. He's not like. Hey. Legal, but it's okay. She's fine. She'll be all right. She calmed down. She was a little nuts, but. Right, right. Yeah, that's that's. Yeah, that's okay. It's realistic and. She comes over to my father and he's right. And he's starts walk. She starts phone. I'm a kid, so I can't figure it all out the way could later. Right, but she comes his assistant basically she's found him around and she he's going to room to room and she's, I think he gave if I remember correctly, he gave like the the thing that you right on billboard, you know, the thing, yeah, clipboard to hold. So she's home clipboard and she's looking like she's making believe she's reading stuff and and I'm like, looking at the scene like, you know, but I'm a kid like I haven't seen all the movies yet that I can compare that this is this is out there. You know what I mean? This is freaking nuts and she'd found around looking at the thing. And I think she's like Zion. Yeah, yes. And he's going and he's, he's basically not even paying attention. Every once in a while, let me have to and he's and all of a sudden. And this is the part again, just like the other thing I think about leaving it out, but if I leave it out, it's not too story. It's not too story because I left it like that. It's a beautiful story. But this is a beautiful story in insultingly because is what it is. It's real. He's in fun of my mother was I described as who was gorgeous, beautiful woman that light good things like father could give a crap. My father had ink-stained exploding in his white shirt pockets. My mother would go crazy. He went to k. mart on remember, k on. He went to KMart and bought his all shoes for four ninety nine each maybe three ninety plastic shoes, and my mother was buying him leather shoes. He never worn them if he knew what she paid for me would win nuts. Waste waste for what was his that was him. So he's got these planets shoes, and you know, he's the inks blow up in his pockets and everything else. And my mother would always get upset, always mad. Why do you wear those shoes? I, but he that's so he's walking in front of and over sudden everything changes. The woman goes. He's not a doctor. She she flipped on them. Can you imagine this? She after being so great to her. He's not a barely gets attention still walking. He's not a doctor rybody. He's got holes in his shoes. I looked on foot goes up. He's got a whole new shoes socks, ticking out of shoe. She was right. It's gotta hold us figure shoe and his plastic shoe. He doesn't care. She, he can't be talked. He's got hold on his shoes. Now he turns around. He looks at a. I'll never forget this. He pats her on ahead says, you're not so crazy. Pats on ahead just like this at nine demeaning way. Like I think you know what I mean? Right. Really touched on a head and said, you're not not so crazy. Turn around, took the billboard Cup Walkin. She didn't say in other word. Wow. My mother was freaking embarrassed and mad because I told her story when I got home. And of course he would never tell it. And I said, you know, you know, I said, like a kid would say, all right, and others ladies, you know, he's got holes all my. You know, these is right good meeting. Well, that makes just this your description, your understanding of your father makes so much sense. So much sense of who you are while while your principles are so rigid, why you're intolerant of any poll shit makes so much sense. As a fight trainer, and as a guy who understands fighters as a commentator makes so much sense that you, you have this just unyielding need for one hundred percent commitment. Yeah. I mean. Listen, doesn't make me better person anything to say. I don't have tolerance for the BS. Right, because I know to be s right. You know, I say to we've, we will run in these gyms. For twenty two years. I've listened when he died. I started to Dr foundation. Again, there was no statue. Okay. So I really, I, I went to supreme court judge who's a friend on Staten on because I used to be in front of the judge as when I was young and a bad way and because I got myself in a little trouble stupid. You know, I got to right place. That's what counts, I think, and but I always got a kick out of it that I hang out with the judge and I didn't have to be the court to do it. You know? And I didn't have to be standing in front of my be on the side of like. So. Got a few people together, and I started the dog that was found eighteen to twenty two years ago. And we've grown, you know, quite a bit, but just little grassroots thing. But if it's grown, we'd probably give away in real help. We have one paid person and one office says, fourteen hundred a month. That's it. So noted ministry caused other than those. And that's it. Nobody could salaries just one person and all the money goes to says the cases and we probably give away. Six hundred thousand seven hundred thousand a year, but direct help. We don't. We don't give to the, you know, we don't give module dives. We don't give it to them. We don't give it to direct patient. Again, Red Cross. We give it directly. We've we, they come to us now because we're out there to extent where people all know but they come to us. They have a kid. Selva palsy needs a certain bike by 'cause fifteen hundred dollars. Bang, boom, got the bike. We we got another baby needs a machine that circulates blood and his legs twenty twenty-five bang got obviously we, we make sure it's legitimate. We research it. We do that. We have a board. We make sure drill. We do make sure it really Israel because you do get people take advantage a little bit. But. And we do it. We act on it because my father never made people feel less when they will pour over and they needed something that was the greatest thing he did. He never made them lose more than they lost ready. Their integrity. Never never. Never. Never made them feel he, he didn't talk. I remember one time it was Christmas Eve when it was hanging out. I was a kid I was in. I was my father's office because I wanted to be with them, and it was Christmas even was late. And we was still in the office. Woman remembers was Spanish woman. She came in, she has six kids and and she was nervous. And I remember watching how nervous she was. I was like even always young like she's really nervous and I found out I learned about human behavior learned about what it was and I'm watching too and sure enough. She was getting ready when the last kid got taken care of. She was gonna dot out of this. She didn't have money and the poor woman. She was she. She had to take care of kids. She didn't want to do that, but she was going to run out of there. Because she did not have money and he recognized leading and I didn't know what it was. So I'm not gonna say, I thought I was smart, but I recognize something all this motion is nervousness at. It wasn't normal. He recognized it all and before he got the last kid so he wouldn't embarrass her. So she wouldn't run out of there and do that to a self and lose something more than she lost ready. He said, this one's on me. And the nervousness went away. She said, there's no charge today. He said, there's no charge today, and I don't know. She spoke English, but she understood it. He made her understand it and there was no charts today. And soon as he said that everything changed, everything changed. She was nervous who was in looking at doors and. She cried. And she left when she left. The place was packed because that was his office and over sudden he's talked to himself a little bit just just for a second. I mean, he didn't do on, you know, but he just likes. It wasn't like that. You know, I wasn't thinking. Of course, he wasn't taking. He didn't know what was Christmas Eve, bright. So he turns to me and he gives me a mission job. He opened the takes out his any gives me a fifty dollar Bill. He says, go find that she's probably on a bus stop. I ran out that door like I was given a greatest mission in the world. Hi felt so proud. I could. I ran. I knew where the bus stop was. I was going to run all of them, but she was at the first one down on bay street. Right around the corner down block two blocks, and I, she's there and sure enough they, she is unopposed. I went up twice at the doctor gives you. You know to look at it, she, you know, she she, she was shocked, but she started crying. But I felt so good because like I felt like it was bought of it. You know? Yeah. And so I started this phone Dacian and I said, you know, I needed help. I said, look. We're going to do what he did. No red tape, no losing of pride. People that fall through the cracks. That's my father. He was. He was. He had a PHD in that all the people fell through the cracks to more. I said, we're gonna take him the ones you know much good this great organization, but to people out there, no nine a bad way, but did you know like eighty? Something percent goes to administrative costs and like four percent goes to research. These people don't need research their life. They've told me that I know it. I recognize it, you know what? They need the need a wheelchair. You know, they need a handicapped ramp, you know what they need that cancer medication paid for, you know what? They need the utilities to be kept on when they're being shut off because they can't afford, you know what they need. They need the back rent paid because someone got sick and one of the people working there had to quit the job and they were going to be put into a shelter with six kids. So we pay the back rent. We paid the utility costs. We pay the cancel medics. We put the wheelchair ramp up. And we do those. That's what we do and research part of their life. It's great. That's hope it comes. So we could close all these places down and I'll close mine down. I, but. Right now they don't need research. They need that they need help for their way of life now for the quality of life for that kid now. So that's what we do. How could someone donate to this? They want to deduct that was said, I'm real bad on website stuff. I'm like caveman, but it's the donkey outlets foundation w. WWW dot atlas foundation dot com dot com. Yeah. And. Seven eight nine eight. I'm sorry. It's okay. Someone eight nine eight seven three seven one person's there. It is. That's it. We got it up there one more time with the phone number. Seven eight nine eight seven three seven, seven eight nine eight, seven, seven. And so don't at list foundation dot com. There donate. I'm sold. Thank you. Your this is a beautiful conversation man in not just about boxing and. I think this this, like I said it, it speaks much to who you are and why you who you are and why you won't tolerate any bullshit. Yeah, it's like when you seen a guy like that, it's kinda thank excess. Are you still working with fighters? You know, it's funny. No. Was the word too few minutes ago too if you Mets? I'm saying few minutes foot into a week ago, maybe less maybe five days ago. I've, I've decided to train a fighter. He's gonna fight for the world light heavyweight title, December first against the second hottest punch in boxing. Unfortunately, he wasn't and it's going to be. I think it's on Showtime, I think even know because I didn't even find those details when they asked me to train them. I, I was saying, no. And my kids said that at least give it a chance. So flew out to where he is in Oxnard California to meet him. His name is Oleg Zahn. He's a, he's a Ukrainian Olexander. Vos IQ. I learned that you don't pronounce the g. that's votes, but it starts with g. he fifteen in all twelve guys fighting the second puncher in boxing donors to Stevenson in Montreal way. Oh. It's a tough fight. They asked me if I would train them at first. Like I said, I would say no Tony things the hardest puncher and box wild while the old times say he hit you on top of the head and Frank she ankles. That's hard. And Donna Stevenson is a hell of a punch is the second hottest punching boxing tan south pole on top of it. And when I flew out talks to, I said, if I'm gonna say, I'm either going to say, no, my kids asked me not to. So I said, then I gotta fly out and I gotta meet them. And when we had lunch him in managed to, you know, anyway and sitting with them, I don't know what they fish. Sure. You know the managed I knew full on of business, but for sure you don't know to, you know, and I wanted to try to find out. So that thinking was like, you know, you hit a find out things probably tomorrow in the gym, and plus we watch tape. So those are the things. So I said, to might out, I said, well, I'm here to see one thing I. If you're a decent person and they will, you know they would like that sounds, you know, maybe different, you know, because you know, but I said, I just went off your perfect. I don't wanna be around bad people. Right? I just wanna be round and there's been people out there. I'm sure it's the way it is, but I, I don't wanna be around bad people. I never did, but now I definitely don't wanna be if I'm gonna spend two months. It's not easy in camp. I wanna be round. So when I feel good about being around. And so that's the first thing. The second thing is too, I think I can help them. That was the second thing. Yeah. And can you be helped so when you go to talk to something like that, do you watch a move you family? First thing I want, I wound up meeting his family's got three young kids, and he's a husband and of course, and I see decent person and then my watch film and. I see a guy that has ideas that need to be attitude that I think that's the best what is I that good ideas technically, but they need to be advanced. They need to be added to posed polish attitu-. Yes, yeah. Taken down the road a little and. I see a guy who behaves like a fighter. That's where it starts for me. Besides being decent person, he behaves like a fight. He got hurt. He got dropped into fight EPA fighter. You have to be able to to be fighting. You have to be a fighter, right? And. Well, you would know that better the most. So he. And there's one problem every fight he gets hit at least once really clean. You can't do that with this guy, right? He gets hit more than once, but he gets hit clean. You know, I one time I to fight when I was trying to Bradley actually was, I said, you religious yet. I am my own way. I said, listen, I'm not into that. I'm say, I'm just using it as an example. My way of say I said, I was brought up a Catholic, forget have the things they told me, but I remember about they used to teach, you've probably pronouncing run. I'm gonna need you help again, but venial sins and Moto since the renew or the little ones you can live with. You don't go and see the guy that's read the mortar ones. You got a problem. I said, the way you box you've you making moral sense vino since only in crap, you're making more to one's getting hit, clean on blocked. Clean, solid punches that sometimes you don't even see like the provider. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. So I said that's going to be corrected, right? So we corrected. So how do you correct something like that? You know what it is. Right? You have to know what it is. You have to see why is getting it, but you gotta change and you gonna change technique. Everything does rules you gotta its life. When you work with garlic, then you only have two months. How much change can you affect in two months? I work with the right reels fight and and he couldn't stand in front of the guy any went out and he moved around the guy in, you know, we were fortunate, right? We did. Okay. We made some changes, but I mean things like I give you example, rules, rules, rules, simple things like, where do you troll punch from? I, yeah guy, you know, don't Jair from there because of your to close. It could time you right hand. Everyone heard jabar's to beginning of things Jeffords to the, you know, it leads to good things. It's a great punch yet is it's terrible punch. It's a, it's a horrible punch of Detroit the wrong distance. You told from a little too close bang. You get who right in no way you throw punches from left toki to eleven. He got right. Angled provide the, he didn't. All he knew was he got hit, but he didn't know why you through. The left took confront right hand is their foam get on a side, troll punches from certain positions, not allowed to throw punches unless there from the right position. Now you have to. 'cause tell me you have to call over and over and over and over again to they can't do it wrong if they wanted to. It's going to become a habit. You're not thinking about it where it's a habit and that takes a lot of work, and that takes understanding what it is, and it takes a lot of work. You gotta be on them every and it takes guy that can put his eagle in the pocket. It's why you wanna know do. I have a good guy here, so I have a decent guy because you're a guy who's already made it to a certain level without you he has. And now you told them this things that he don't know. So he's got to be willing to be able to accept that. And. One of the things I like people that aren't selfish and local selfish to a certain degree, but against degrees, how tough all your degrees. All fight is tough to grease out the how selfish all you to grease run and. The whole understanding was I would go to Oxnard fate weeks, you know, to train them, but maybe I don't wanna go, but I'll go wherever I dig. It gives to fight of the best chance to win the weather to zone. But the main thing why go there. He's got three young kids. I'm not in a rocky movie. I don't wanna take them away from those kids for those eight weeks. Right. That's not good. So how many? So I took two weeks to decide to them. He kept calling to manage up. He's a good kid. He is and he kept calling Amana Trump and saying, did you hear yet? And of course he hadn't. So he's thinking like a good person all like I should say good part. He's like a person that wants to get what he wants to get. But at the same time, here's where the good part comes to know the self less part. He says, if I have to go to New York, go to New York, a lot of fighters don't do that. They want help, but they wanted on their terms. Right. He said, if I have to go to New York, go to New York, I have to go to Montreal the Montreal. Please tell them that that that spoke to me that I had this kid that selfless to, to that extent was training him before. I don't know the name, but it was a, you know, these guys fifteen at all, but but he felt like when you know when he got dropped in a fight back to the Jim of mealy that should be dealt with, you know. Right? But it was back to just basic training again rather than that specific, you know, doesn't mean that the guys are good. Does me it just that he everyone deals with things differently. That's all. I mean, it doesn't make me this or that, but I just can do way I to it and I do it. I look at film when I went to see my had couple pages written out already on things. I saw on film that he does that that he would have to correct. And the one thing that he has to connect for this fight. We'll be good if you don't get hit. I mean, that'd be a temp good thing. But the one really thing is you can't keep coming back in front of the guy at a certain this is giving them a shot at you can punch like that. And that's one thing. He always winds. Localized right back in front of the guy, and there's gotta be allowed options other places to go. Right. You know, I joke around, I, I used to, you know, different examples of different analyses, say listen, well, you had a mother, grandmother had somebody when you will grow up told you don't hang out on the corner. Right, right. Yeah. Why? Because nothing good can happen. Right. Don't hang out in front of the guy, right? Nothing good can happen. So we go from there. You know, it's a lot more two weeks English. Well, yeah, he does. He's a small guys computer for family, and like I said, it's so when do you start because December is we said, number. I sources to fight. I have to make it to. I have. It's going to be an eight or seven week camp. I, I'm trying to feel. I'm trying to find out by asking him questions how quickly the body gets shape, because I know sounds funny to average out there, but if it's a week too long, it could be bad. Yeah. So you know, you don't so, and he's over trained in his career? Yeah. So I wanted fry to try. It's not an exact science to have a feel for to be seven weeks. You monitor their heart rate rescue, right? I have. So we have that stuff that we do that right to see. The rain when they wake up? Yes, but you know what? I depend on. I'm not gonna stay in BS you? I depend on my I right more than any three CM song down seem struggling. The trick is to not get their right to try not to get and we'll see. What do you do? You tell them to take a few days, but I try to see it before seat. What what I mean is. We had a hard day training. I will just automatically give them a light day. You'll maybe off the next day. Right? And like a lot of people won't because they're afraid you gotta work gotta work. Right? And I learned not to be afraid of that right to. So if I see he had a real, he looked great. You know what take off to mall or you sure take off tomorrow, so we don't get their right to try to kind of like my father like preventive citizen, new way of thinking though in such a smart way thinking because for the longest time, everybody just wanted to be tough. Yeah, there's wanted to work harder, but you gotta work smarter? Yeah, you do less is more, you know that Sam, but sometime it really is sometimes sometimes sometimes not because some people are fucking lazy and they're looking for that easy way out. You have to gauge to see Jeff to know what you gotta. You know what I mean? And sometimes the real disciplined driven guys are their own worst enemy in that regard has pushed too far. Yes, this kid has been again. I'm not here to say it was, but the kid has been in that place. Right? And. That's why they're coming to me and get it. I'm no better than anyone, but I will understand that. So when you're when you're saying seven weeks or eight weeks, so either one it's going to be. So my first day it's going to be a Monday. So the first day in camp in Oxnard will either be October eighth or Tober fifteenth. October represent eight weeks topa fifteen seven weeks. And that would mean I would fly in on a Saturday, get myself settled Sunday. Watch tape with him. An then start Monday with a structured schedule. You know, with the ability to change it anytime because again, the I you see, you know, I remember years ago I was trained to fight his up in around forty years. I've been Gleason when I moved on Gleason, you know, many years ago, thirty, whatever was maybe more thirty five. So Gleason was in Manhattan. It's in Brooklyn. I'll put it was a man. It was. The place, you know, and it was to blogs from as gone was kind of cool, you know? So I'm training and I remember I was the first guy then bragging. But I mean, just I, I would make my guys drink water and he time guys guys not because they knew it from scientific advances other than it was passed down to them, it was taboo. It was just passed down to them, don't drink water. It makes you weak. You know, you gotta be tough, don't drink. So I was making my guys not only Trink water drink a half a gallon. I mean drink a lot of water. So I remember some of the old times with they'd like talking about me. They'd be like to fix this. Don't drink what don't follow what he's doing. Because some of the fighting was guy, drink water water and no, to give you cramps it make you, you get, you know, don't give you cramps. Drink a large amount. Very cold in there. Yeah, you could. But no, if we hydrate you, it allows you to stay strong. Try to drive a call. 'cause the desert with no water in the radiator. You might have a problem you might? Yeah, and, but I'm telling you, I'm not. So I was afraid now, but I'm saying that that place the thing was nobody drank water, spit it out, and I was making my guys drink and right in front of you know that what was the difference. I knew by learning, I knew my father, my father. Talked about the importance of water for, you know, he was proud. I was training. He thought it was going to be a warrior. I went a little different, but he was proud that it's so he would talk to me like, like, I just got it to us Moses, if that makes sense. I just, I knew I knew the water is health. I knew it was important that you had to rehydrate yourself in. Yeah, you had to my father had thing with border to my father would make my father volved in my training in different ways. Like if my fight was feeling a little weak or he had a cut and he was healing from the cut by father would say, set him down the ocean, what that would not take an fake, put him in the ocean. I said, all right, let go the ocean, let them soak his his scar. Whatever you know is let them soak it in the ocean and don't go to clear out that might not be good. But that won't. That might not. He'll you, but. But change might change. You might be green when you come out. Got going on with the whole, but no. But so no, he would tell me series way, said said he send you fighter. If he's a little of you needs to be revitalised a little set them to the ocean. Let's women ocean. It'll be a son and let them. So whatever cuts. Yellen notion and of AVI happens to swallow a one. That's okay because no one wanted to swallow seawater, right? The worst thing in the world by father said it's okay, not the worst thing. So one day I guess I got around to asking him why he was so into semi-finals to the ocean. And he told me, is he just that's how my father would say things. He would just tell me things and that's why I would learn. And he just said to me, oceans, will life came from all life on our started in the ocean microcosm, whatever you wanna call. It didn't get into technical stuff, but he said it started in the ocean and came out onto land. He says, opposite. Senator of salt in all blood is the exact same presents purse cubic inch q. begins. You know, whatever was just saying, probably not close to what he said. But close enough is the sacked amount Cuba gins says it is in the ocean. We come from the ocean. All life comes from the ocean. Go back to where life came from. That was enough for me. My father was telling me anything. My father told me that was it. So I said, all right. So a matter of fact, he told me still, I remember I was going out with a girl that that had a little baby that had Blake's and he told me he said, had he was serious. He wouldn't say highs, but he said, send it down. He had a condominium and they wanna beach, and he said, send it down and Daytona Beach, let it stay there for the summer and Leto boy, be notion in the sun vitamin a vitamin David. I didn't know that and industry and his legs out. Yeah, his legs get straight. They won't crazy. But you know, it was a cook knits. His legs could straight, and he was right because fiber Neo show by being in the sun vitamin a. and d healthy, of course, I guess part of it was the swimming and part of it was too, and part of it was the sun, but it was strain as likes. Now. Look, did he need them to the point where you had to put braces? No, but was there was a slight issue was the initial? Yeah. Was a dramatic. No. But to buddy, say work? Yeah, was a right and, yeah, you know, but we just think of braces obviously, and but yeah, and it would he'll he would say, let the cut Cohen he-. Ocean assault, water heels, the cut it will heal the cut a lot of fighters used to soak their face and Brian. Yeah. Well, Joe facial, yeah. Did that really keep you your skin? Tough. In protected from cuts, or is that old wives? I think that that's a little bit of that old stuff where we don't know, right, but they believed it. So you know, he's smell like a pickle when he was. When he was on with you, get hungry, and then he hits you left. What about other controversial training methods like weightlifting for the longest time we start taboo taboo? I o Holyfield Mackie Shilstone. Yeah, Mackey Shilstone's training Holyfield moving him from cruiser way to a heavyweight. True. And he was very light heavyweight. The beginning right crews away. Yeah, we really essentially was and they just pack some meat on them my go Spinks with yet. That's right. Michael. Spinks was really the first when he fought Larry home. Yes. Yeah. Mackie Shilstone worked with Holyfield after that. Right? Yeah. Listen and Gleason. I'm to go back to lease the epicenter of, yeah, to place. No water, no weights. Right. I got. I've used to have my fighters to weights if I felt. If I felt that a fight wasn't physically strong enough, I put him on weight program, but I do it myself. I would know strength coaches back then, but but just a commonsense program has three days a week, you know, eat protein. Of course, you have to replenish yourself with the proper diet that stuff, but and do it at the right time in between the training way. You're not killing overtraining. Right? You know, go sparring tire. That's right, right. You know, have the separation of workouts, but if I had a slightly built guy that I thought two things and the second one is one, we're probably a little that you wouldn't would normally connect to it. But the first thing was thought he could physically be stronger. Not that he had to be fighting inside, but when he did fight inside because that's face. If you fighter, you're gonna wind up in rural quarters. You are even though you say, well, I'm gonna live on the outside. Okay. Until that day that the guy slips jabbing now you live in the inside, you ready to live on the inside for a minute. So. So I believe that so I would make my guys to weights if I would physically could get help and improvement in those areas. But I also did it for the psychological reason. I felt that it's all psychological battle. It's seventy five percent psychological mental, and you have to do anything. You can to help to fight her in that area. Anything anything, grab anything that's does something floating over your head. I'll grab it anything and the mental part. If if you make them feel stronger, hippie, stronger. If that's something that that just gives them a little, I Olga more confidence and belief. Now, listen, here's the, here's the catch, twenty two. Maybe you don't want the guy fighting inside maybe his style, his makeup to fight. I get you because of the smart guys out there listening. I'm sure there are. They're gonna think that before I said it. Yeah, I still wanna feel strong. Okay. I'm not gonna make. I'm not gonna make a guy that should box. Like Panella wiggle was a box like Miami alley. I'm not gonna let them Mike fight. Like Jake lamotta. I, I'm okay with that, but I want them to feel stronger, fun of what kind of weightlifting. Jim do. Because your, do you have a background in lifting weights yourself? No, no. Other than I played football, so I was around it and and I I've been around Jim's my life and fitness people my life. So I understand the Playa metrics. I understood all the advancements all the new stuff that came out the band's to, you know, the, hey, listen, you gotta remember there was a guy named Charles atlas that that started with resistance training, who he was somebody kicked sand in his face comic book, right? And you know, I don't know if it was related or not, but but you know, he did is metrics. I believed in isometrics I did is metrics for the whole camp with, but Michael moral for the Holyfield fight, believe it or not really? Yeah, I used to put my hand here and I used to make him push against. My hand, but ways that we can push to, I would design all kinds of different exercises in ways to do it where I just gave him resistance with my own body, sometimes push against my shoulder right, put, you know, be careful the joint. She won't strain in all common sense stuff. Yeah, but so we, this is something that you thought of yourself, you were trying to figure out how to do it and then you just implemented it. Yeah. Yeah, this is something that Michael Moore man when he was a light heavyweight was a murderous puncher Margaret's boy. Oh boy, he was dangerous. He was so scary, but though it seemed like the way cut was too brutal. Yeah, it was brutal and he was terrifying. Light heavyweight? Yeah, he was forgot about him. They forgot about him as a light heavyweight, knocked everyone out just murder. He went to distance with anybody. He was murdering. He was really something. Yeah. And I heavyweight. I southwest Champa pole time. I is that true. Wow. Wow. Yeah, better. Be true. I've been saying this, I didn't know. Yeah, no, he was it. Good person. Very good guy. Yeah, he's like all of us. We get lost and we get short fused all of us, but he's a good. You know you go to your not good, right? Yeah, he, he's you wanna. Hear crazy thing. Some people might. I hope they don't. Whatever. I hope they don't take too long way. But anyway. It's meant to be the good way. I have a friend of every close friend. I hate politicians, I think the phony, but I have one that's he makes a living politician, but he don't live as a politician. That makes right and said, he's both presidents that his name is Jimmy hall and probably go crazy his. But anyway, so. Okay, a little crazy anyway. That's why we get along. But he's a good man and like my father was born to be a doctor. He was his mother, knew it. He was born to be. I don't want us to politicians seems like a dirty where I leader. Yeah, leader a care of people. All right. A public servant, maybe whatever. But anyway. So he's the bowl president of San. And the, he really does things. Anyway, we're close and he just gave his ninety four thousand dollars for the foundation like a week ago he does that finds the money. And you know, he knows always says, is the greatest complementing goes. I know it's. I know where it's going and. Thank you says to me, what do you take me for? Thank you. I can't help these people without you get all the help. We two fundraisers and we do things. We do a big dinner thousand people week before thanksgiving. When we have people like Tony danza and Phil Simms and Bill Parcells used to come. He don't come no more. You don't leave Florida anymore, but but you know, we, I mean, Patrick Ewing. Tha Campbell Matombo. I mean, we're blessed. We're blessed voc- Peres. She loves. She loves me. I mean, we blessed brand demolished from the giants last year they come and they allow me to have a successful because they come and they don't get a sense because nobody gets sent. And so with all that in with Jimmy. So anyway, I have these things that I just say sometimes. So he caught me one time, but I was just saying it, I. Didn't realize that it was going to register because it just some, you know. So I just said. Do people bed. So he's a why. I said. Because what you say said, no, it's it's, you know, words to live by people bad. So I've choke by people bad. So he said, what do you mean? I said, people bad. He said, put you help your in the business. I said, there's good people too. So anyway, about a month ago, two months ago, whatever he comes up to me says, you gotta take them out of my mind. I know I know it, but for what what matter? He said. Would you permission? I wanna take domain, which I barely know what that means. Copyright the the phrase people bad and. If I told you I wanted to start a business with you and me and approach these. Some of the proceeds will go to the foundation with so shards do, and you have these different things. So to stall stalled people bed. Resiliency, good people, bad forgiveness, good people, bad, be better. People bad pox, good. People bad, you know, redemption, good people, bad. That's be, you know, whatever. But the whole idea is to be unapologetic and to say, we got a problem. I don't know if you wanna say where tilting point, but we got a problem at my social genius. No, am I Saint? No, but I got kids. I care about what the world is. You know, maybe I didn't have kids still care. And I have grandchildren are two of the beautiful and in a what slop people out there I'm not polish is about saying that there's a lot of great people. There's more good people, but it's join a battleline. A line of resistance really where I want to call people out on it. I wanna remind us that we could be better. I wanna remind us. People, bad selfishness worse, and I just want to to. He bought my attention to it because I use that phrase so frequently when I was mad and he said, that's turn your mad into something better teddy. That's that's because I know what you stand for. I know that's why give you what I give you twenty two years. So people bed, but they're good. They're good. That's remind people that we need to be good. That's remind people that's call them on a crap. That's frigging say, hey, we gotta be better. We gotta care about the right things. We gotta stop getting caught up in our crap, you know, and we gotta be stronger. People bed. Don't be week, you know. But in other words, using it to to. Remind people that sometimes we're going into bed direction. We are look at the world. Look at that. You know, when I was flying was reading the New York Post. Do you know people think I'm weak something, but I didn't wanna read some of the stories about some of these kids got killed those story. A parent that someone at a hospital in Manhattan that decided to slice up a bunch of infants, just ran to the hallway of his place was for Chinese immigrants that they go to this place when they're young mothers, where they think it's a safe haven for the children to be there for like a month. And so their infants, today's old five days old ten days old and enroll in it was all Chinese immigrants and all in their these babies. And this woman walks in there with a knife and start. Stabbing these kids now, listen, I know a lot of people say teddy psychotic. That's different. I yes, yes, yes, it's evil. Yeah. Does evil in the world? Yeah, but I'm just I'm just call to arms. I'm not the guy, but I'm just saying to my small way call to arms that. We can be better that just remind people that in our what we have so much promise the so much to be. Grateful for in this country particular in the world, but not always. And we have so much here that's be better of people bad that help them be better. That's lead the way to be better. That's that's take a stance. So we're going to, I don't know how the fick we're gonna do it, but. Start this company people, but then we're gonna have all these inspirational if you will, what all these positive, positive, positive. Things to say that to remind you that in all you could be anything you want to be. You know that old saying, you could be anything you want to be. But some people choose to be bad that's to be better. And so we're gonna do some. Some of the proceeds go. I don't know how the frequent, probably whatever's gonna, but we're going to figure it out. He's going to do it all because I, I only know boxing. I think you know more than that, listen teddy, this has been three hours Lou by jumping. Sorry, it was great. Really appreciate you being here, man. Wow. I know it's actually a little bit more than three hours and thanks. Beautiful. Thanks. Really, really appreciate you tell you gentlemen, thank you, everybody for tuning into the show, and thanks to our sponsors. Thank you to on it. Go NIT, use the code word Rogan, and you'll save ten percent of any and all supplements. Thank you to my all time. Favorite underwear. I'm wearing them right now. Jamie back me off that checkered flag up finished. I got a checkered flag, but the finish line bitch. Anyway, you, you can get for anybody that's listened to this podcast. Any first time purchasers when you purchase me undies you get fifteen percent off and free shipping? Yes, fifty percent off your first pair free shipping and a one hundred percent satisfaction guarantee. If you don't think they're the best mother fucking underwear you've ever had. They give you your money back to send them in. Yes, they're also cool shit like socks they've socks to anyway me on these dot com for slash Rogan. That's me on these dot com. Ford slash Rogan fifteen percent off your first pair, free shipping and one hundred percent satisfaction guaranteed me undies dot com. Slash Rogan and last, but most certainly not least. Thank you so much to the cash app. A wonderful company. Does doing so much not just to help people in a better and more interesting way interact with your money buy and sell bitcoin direct, download, or deposit your paycheck, right into your app, and swiping the cash card at stores and using cash boost to save money. Not only all those cool things. But also when you download the cash-strapped for free in the app store or Google play market, use the reward code, Joe Rogan, you're going to get five dollars and the cash apple send five dollars to Justin rents fight for the forgotten charity to build wells for the pygmies in the Congo. We can't go wrong folks literally. Okay, thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thanks tune in pre sheet. Fuck out of you. Nice to be back. Okay. See you soon. Bye.
The Joe Rogan Experience
Aired Last month 62:51
Morning Joe 1/11/19
Morning Joe supported by the almond board of California, did you know almonds grow in shell protected by a whole on a tree all of which are put to use with a goal of zero waste by twenty twenty five. Researchers are exploring new uses for these co products, including strengthening recycled, plastics, creating fuel brewing, beer and more. Learn more at almondsustainability dot org. Prosecutors say Trump directed it legal hush money to two women when during the campaign, I would say Mexico's going to pay for it. Obviously, I never said this, and I never meant to go to write out a check. They may even write a check by the time. They see what. Paul Manafort with Jerry polling data from your campaign with rock with. No, I didn't know think about nothing about it. So he denied knowing about these stormy Daniels payoff. Prosecutors say he did no he denied saying Mexico would cut a check for the border wall. But he did say that. And he denies knowing Paul Manafort wishing sharing data with a Russia linked associate we're going to leave. That fact check to Bob Muller. Good morning and welcome to morning, Joe. It is Friday January eleventh along with Joe Willie and me we have national fares analyst for NBC news and MSNBC and co host and executive producer of Showtime's, the circus, John Heilmann, Republicans strategist and MSNBC political analyst Susan Dell Percy, oh and Republican communication strategist. And MSNBC political contributor, Rick. Tyler is with us as well. Joe this shutdown it continues, its it's getting painful people were getting paychecks today with a big fat zero on them. And I'll tell you what the government shutdown is an important story. We're. Gonna be talking about that at length this morning, but I don't want any of us to lose sight of what's happening at the same time. What simultaneously unfolding right before our very eyes? We're watching the continued political ideological and moral collapse of mild party, the Republican party and make no mistake. Donald Trump's governing immorality and a morality is the engine. That's driving this collapse and has been driving this collapse for some time, but his Republican allies on Capitol Hill and in powerful positions across America are too eager and too willing to be his accomplices take the new Republican, chairman of the judiciary committee, South Carolina's Lindsey Graham. Now, I've known Lindsey for years we came in together in congress and nineteen ninety four and Lindsey was always considered to be one of the most genial reasonable and measured members of congress as a presidential candidate in two thousand sixteen. He routinely warned us. Of the moral ride that the election of Donald Trump as the party's nominee would bring to the Republican party. And he said that unhinged Manhattan developer would destroy the GOP if he were elected. Well, Lindsey was right. Then put now he's one of the administration's leading henchmen in hatching plots to run roughshod over our nation's traditions, and to turn the Republican party into a rudderless unprincipled collection of many me, Donald Trump's can you believe that Lindsey Graham a guy who along with me throughout the nineteen ninety s Chaffee, add the power of checks and balances, then of course. Then against Bill Clinton. We always talked about article one and the constitution is being constitutionalists will now that same Lindsey Graham. Who actually follow? John McCain's lead for so long is actually the Republican who's using his position as Senate chairman of the judiciary committee to encourage Donald Trump to declare a national emergency and illegally seize article one powers if he doesn't get his way on the border wall. Think about that for a second, and it is illegal. It will be overturned by the supreme court of the United States. And if Lindsay doesn't know that then he really shouldn't even be in congress. It's that obvious the courts will overturn this. Because in the midst of the kind of negotiations that Donald Trump's going through with Nancy Pelosi. It's a first time that this spoiled pampered brat who inherited two hundred million dollars from his father, and then blew through it. That brat has now grown up to be president of the United States. And then his seventy two seventy three. I don't know. How old is he Seventy-three? I'll tell you yesterday who. But anyway, this is first time anybody's ever stood up to him. And you know, what that's called that's called Madison democracy, and it's been the norm. This constitutional Republic for two hundred forty years, and that's just been a balance between two co equal branches of government. But Lindsay says it's not going Donald sway. So let's just to clear national emergency. We can rob money that kind, of course from people that are suffering in Puerto Rico. We can rob money from people who are suffering in California. We can rob money from our military men and women even though the armed services, chairman is said that would be deplorable. It is truly deplorable. And if that's not bad enough. I will Republican congressman Steve king. A man who has long shared a mutual admiration with Donald Trump spoke his truth and unashamedly declaring himself a white supremacist now in days past Kim would have immediately been censored and removed from the Republican conference. But at Donald Trump's GOP, they're just pro forma press releases and tweets of rebuked because in reality, oh king is doing seizes Mirroring, the president's views after that deadly March in Charlottesville and this morning. Steve king remains a member in good standing of the house and the Republican party. You know, I could go on. But you know, we only have three hours every morning conservatives like. Me can only now watch and wait in horror to see the awful legacy in the moral destruction that Donald Trump is going to have on the party that I want slugged and that he hijacked to win the White House. I can't tell you this today. Trump is leading this horror show. But you know, who I hold accountable Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Steve king and all the Republicans on Capitol Hill that are ducking their heads. They are the co conspirators complicit by their action or more importantly by their silence. The party of Lincoln and the party of Reagan. They're suffering through a massive moral collapse. It is sad, and it is dangerous for this country. And I believe it is the beginning of the end of my old party Willie. Jo well said, and I think there are a lot of people conservatives not the ones you've talked about there but conservatives out in public life yesterday writers and thinkers who have come out both against the president declaring a national emergency which you can use to threaten to do. And again, Steve king prominent conservatives withdrawing their support in fact, donating to the candidate who's announced a primary run against Steve king. So it's not happening in Washington. The Capitol Hill in that building. And you listed all the names. But there are people like you and many other conservatives who are standing up against what they've seen over the last couple of days. Let's get right into this though. Joe is meek a mentioned today is the first miss payday for federal workers and contractors who were either furloughed or not being paid in the partial government shut. Down a standoff that has now entered day twenty one and joins the December nineteen ninety-five into January of ninety six shutdown as the longest in history yesterday protests across the country, including in Washington, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Kentucky, Dallas and Ogden Utah. Or the Internal Revenue Service is one of the largest employers in that area and three quarters of the workforce is furloughed. The head of the FBI agents association said nearly five thousand special agents intelligence analysts attorneys and professional staff are currently furloughed resulting in reduced staffing for what they call critical functions that support field operations there were a few more Republican defections as the house approved to appropriations bills Thursday, twelve Republicans vote to vote with the democrat to reopen the transportation department and housing and urban development while ten voted defend agriculture programs, like food stamps, and the FDA which has suspended some food inspections. The administration as I mentioned has begun laying the groundwork for a declaration of national emergency to bypass congress to fund the border wall. It's certain to be challenged in court, but it is shutdown exit plan that would let President Trump claimed victory on his campaign pledge in order to sign a Bill to reopen. The government President Trump said yesterday he is leaning toward that national emergency. I have the right to player a national emergency. The lawyers have so advise me I'm not prepared to do that yet. What am I have to? I will if this doesn't work out. Probably I will. No, I would say definitely. So Joe I'll let you tackle that one. Also, just want to spring on NBC news and others reporting that the president is looking at diverting funds disaster relief funds from places like California after the wildfires places. Like, Notre Rico, Florida across the country money that's going to rebuild those places toward now building the wall, building the wall and John Heilemann. Donald Trump says he's got the legal authority for it. I don't know what lawyers us talking to it is there's no doubt the nineteen seventy six act is very broad. But there's also no doubt that Donald Trump never understand that when he thinks out loud and says if I don't get my way in political Nagoya. She ations I'll just clear national emergency. That does not fall under the act and one seriously doubts that have Harry Truman couldn't compel the still industry to not strike at the time of war. Donald Trump will not be able to declare a national emergency because he's not getting his way with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Courts will chew that. And spit that out and people like Lindsey Graham will look like idiots. Well, let's hope. I joi- your lawyer, although a simple country, lawyers you often say, but I'm not so dumb country lawyer. So I so I I hope that you're right. It would seem that if you thought about the precedent. You thought about the history. The site Truman that there's a good cause to be hopeful that if the president does go ahead with this that the courts will stop him, as you know, the, you know, the courts have changed over time. And so I would I'm hopeful equally hopeful that we'll never have to test that that the test the courts on this matter. I mean, look, I think all the things you said earlier and the analysis all strike me as right in kind of obvious way that we're seeing the route of the Republican party and we're seeing Trump abuses power. If he goes ahead with this in the way, you suggest, but I just take it a little bit further in this sense. All of the things that all the things that are bad about the notion of declaring a national emergency in this context are are problematic in the extreme. But they're all the more. So over the fact that the entire thing is built on a gargantuan lie, which is not merely as usurping power not merely as diverting would. He would he be usurping his power going beyond the constitution going beyond? Slative mandate and diverting funds from things where there actually are people suffering as you pointed out, Puerto Rico, California, the places, but the whole thing is would be predicated on the notion that there is a national emergency on the border. When of course, there's not and that when you start to see John when you start to see an executive that's critical. Yeah. I mean that's critical because because Donald Trump, I guess doesn't understand what his lawyers? I guess don't understand is. Yes, the supreme court deals with with the law and interpreting the law, they also deal with facts are fact patterns that go along to every case, they apply the laws of the facts. Donald Trump will say there's an emergency at the border. Oh, what's the emergency? All the heroin coming across well, Mr President ninety percent, you can art. They'd say say say to the solicitor General, Sir. Ninety percent of the drugs that are coming across are coming through legal boards of entering. So it no that's not relevant though. We'll we'll we gotta caravan criminal. No, you don't have a caravan coming up, Mr.. Solicitor general that that actually was just a farce to help Donald Trump get elected and you'll stop talking about it the day after so that's not much of an emergency. Welcome. They immigrants illegal immigrants are streaming gross the border at record rates. Well, no, actually, the fact show that they're at twenty year low right now, you're exactly right, John. The fact patterns the fact patterns do not support any ruling that that would uphold an emergency declaration. It will not happen. There's only one emergency. Joe right now Donald Trump's life, and it's not a national emergency and armored suit the border, it's a political emergency. And I'll I'll just say that when you see a chief executive invoking a totally made up national emergency in order to actually try to solve a political emergency. And in that case in this context, divert resources invoke this national emergency and potentially be deploying the military in its service. You are seeing the actions of an autocrat that is a that is the behavior that if you saw it in a third world country. You would we have in many third world countries. You would say, well, that's the guy who runs the junta. That's the guy who runs the dictatorship who is who's instituting who's instituting martial law in the streets because his regime is crumbling. That's what we've seen this before. And that's what you'd be seeing in this context. Something very much parallel to that. And that's why it's so disturbing and Mika that's what many people are saying. Now that when we see if we see the collapse of democracy this country over time if we see the rise of autocrats in the United States of America it won't be by somebody bringing tanks across the fourteenth street bridge. It won't be by by a Hutu seizing television and radio stations. It will be by the continue erosion chipping Madison democracy of checks and balances. As of the seizing of oracle. One powers the running over of the power of a free and independent judiciary all for the expansion of an imperial presidency. That's where Donald Trump is trying to take America right now. And emeka. That's why we're seeing some conservatives actually speak up and speak out for good. And just pointing out as bring it back down to ten feet versus ten thousand feet. There are people getting paychecks today with zero on them for working two weeks. Conservatives not in lockstep you're talking about behind the president gel to clearing a national emergency for the wall. The Wall Street Journal editorial board writes this morning that it would strain the limits of his executive authority. He did that the editors of the national review. Call it. Another unwelcome step in America's long March toward unilateral government by the executives. Eric Erickson tweeted when the next democratic president. Declares a national -mergency over gun violence and takes executive actions to Kerr tail gun purchases. You can think the people urging Donald Trump to do the same with regards to the border, Texas, congressman MAC Thornberry, the top Republican on the House Armed Services committee said I am opposed to using national defense funds for anything else and several prominent Republican senators spoke publicly against the idea. I don't wanna see a declaration of national emergency. I think that's a an action that would be taken in the most extreme circumstances advise against that as a bad precedent? Even if the president's got thority to do what advice against it? Tomorrow, the national security emergency might be climate change. So let's seize the fossil fuel plants or something. Susan Dell purse, yo. There obviously are some people were speaking out, but I just want to step back and imagine the thoughts of people who live in Puerto Rico who have family. They're hearing the president potentially moving disaster relief funds from places like Puerto Rico to build his wall that most people don't want. I mean, this is incredible. At this point the way, he's running over people with a lack of care or humanity. And he shown over and over that he doesn't have that humanity. And there is a real crisis at the border one that he created their parents and children's still separated there are people who are not being processed properly because at a point of entry Lee seeking amnesty legally because this president wants to lessen the amount of judges there as a deterrent. So people are basically in these horrible camps. There is a crisis for for millions now Americans who will because of those eight hundred. Thousand people who will not be getting paychecks today. And I just can't help to think that every time. There's people involved the president just shows he has no heart. He has no empathy and to how men's point he's absolutely right. The president is creating a has a political emergency in his trying to find using the national emergency is a way to get himself out of it. And I hope more and more Republicans do speak out about it and join a lawsuit. If he does do it because the one thing that I find so shocking or all these members of CONGRESS Republicans who are willing to see their most important thing that they have which is their influences a legislative leader to the president. It's just it goes to Joe's earlier point about why the publican party is just falling apart because you have a bunch of people who are throwing away their principles and not willing to stand up for what's right? They're just trying to avoid a primary. They seating their power on Capitol Hill, there seating our power there seating trae article one power there seating constitutional power. They're undermining this constitutional Republic, and the checks and balances that have kept us going for over two hundred and forty years, and Rick I wanna follow up on a point that Erik Erikson made yesterday on Twitter that John. Hi, almonds made that that other people have been making that is as it's all about precedence. If if Donald Trump can declare a national emergency on a phony issue where the facts don't even back him up. Then what happens that a democrat gets elected in twenty twenty and there's another mass shooting at a high school and we're seeing images of children being carried out of their classrooms out of their biology classes out of their English classes with bullet holes. All over them. What would stop a democratic president from declaring a national -mergency and seizing military style. Weapons. What would stop the next democratic president from shutting down coal power plants? Like Marco Rubio said because of the national emergency the imminent threat of climate change. What would stop the chief executive from declaring that the supreme court was was packed illegally by Mitch McConnell? So we're going to have to expand the supreme court from nine members to twelve members immediately. What would stop that? It's a rhetorical question. Go hoping a moving Joe that we would never elect a democrat or Republican ever again who would use declaring anational -mergency for political purposes. And the reason, you know, it's political is because what he's saying is I will I'm contemplating declaring it a national -mergency. So that's the first giveaway. I'm. Contemplating over several days of national -mergency. But it's contingent upon what Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer do right? So the circumstances which national emergency would come about where the president would would rightfully declared a national emergency would have nothing to do with what the leaders of the opposition party are whether they're going to do it or not do it. I'm glad John holliman. Brought it up. I hesitate to bring it up at nine of them firm ground. This is a step toward martial law. That seems rather extreme and I don't think the clearing national emergency is declaring martial law. But it does it brings us in that direction, and that's a very dangerous precedent. And so I asked my fellow conservatives and Trump supporters who who support what Trump wants to do on the border, and by the way, Democrats share that same as far as I can tell I don't know anybody doesn't want border security. The question is whether a wall works and the president has broken a fundamental promise. Which is he? Said Mexico pay for the wall. He said that they were going to write a check he did actually say that. But here's he goes further. And he says that I'm going get Mexico now, the pay wall pay for the wall indirectly through a great trade deal. So first of all the trade deal isn't even an acted. It has to be it has to be ratified by the Canadian government, the Mexican government and the United States government before it can be an inactive. But let's give him the benefit of the del. Let's suppose that it is an acted and the and there's no provision in it to provide any money for the wall. But let's suppose it grows the economy, which conservatives are we believe it, we grow the economy more revenue comes into the government, right? All that revenue that comes into the government. That's American taxpayer money. That's not Mexican money. So what Donald Trump would have his supporters believe is not only are we going to pay for the wall up front with a five point seven billion. He wants now we would pay for twice, and Joe I just want to bring this all back to why we're here as we sit here tomorrow, it will be the longest reach tomorrow night. When we will at this point will be the longest shutdown in government history as we're talking about being on the brink of the declaration of a national emergency over manufactured crisis. Remember why we're here was less than a month ago? There were reports all over the place, including on the cover the New York Times, it said, the president was great a walk away from his border wall that he said he just didn't think he'd get it done. He saw that he heard from people like, Sean, Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. He heard from Ann Coulter. Who said if the president doesn't get his wall he will be quote joke. President who scammed the American people. This is a reaction to criticism. He heard from conservative some conservatives. And now here we are on the brink of what he believes is a national emergency after he had a deal. It's a great point after he had a deal that Republicans and Democrats come together on and he right read on right? They were ready to move forward. And then he heard from Rush Limbaugh an and Coulter. And so here we are. All this time later and make the impact. Oh, my Lord the impact it's not only having those employees. But even if Donald Trump and Republicans wanted to look at this cynically the impact it's having on their approval ratings, just devastating and imagine if he does declared national emergency, and that struck down by the court, imagine how bad that's going to look for him because the court will lay out in black and white why this is not a national emergency. And also how the president can't say I'm gonna declare national -mergency if I don't get my way in the Goshi Atienza's. This is a guy that wrote the art of the deal. I mean, this is more like the art of the steal. He's trying to steal this issue away. By declaring a national emergency meek. It's not going to happen. If he does it the chords will strike him back again. That's another huge exercise in branding for him. It's disturbing here. This is just a couple of miles from here from where? This is a tunnel. This is the second tunnel that we have located. This is an area that we actually have wall. Seems seems like they were learning something there about the wall that was tunnels actually the wall. Mr President just letting you know in public during your own dog and pony show with your department of homeland security director, right there that your wall ideas, really stupid. Yup. That was a round table discussion with border officials yesterday who actually know how things work there. President Trump being shown that tunnels had been dug under already existing walls Trump made several carefully orchestrated appearances at the border that one didn't go very well aimed at dramatizing what he calls a crisis surrounded by border agents and contraband, including at that roundtable discussion with just mentioned where sees stacks of heroin meth guns and cash were prominently displayed yet as the New York Times points out quote that display of drugs weapons, and cash was mainly the product of law enforcement action stopping criminal. At international bridges were most drugs are smuggled and conventional ports of entry law enforcement officials boasted of apprehending criminals who had built a tunnel. The money was taken from a suspect who had overstated visa. Steph wrote guy for the Atlantic James fellows in his latest PC dives into three main points to remember amid the ongoing government shutdown James, this is just a wonderful piece. I I it's it's exactly what Americans the type of peace Americans need to read. And maybe it's just the southern Baptist in me. But all preachers stick to three points. And they start out by telling you what those three points are then they preach. And then they give you the three points again at the end. But now, this is wonderful you break it down to three realities that and then tell people if they want to hear more read on unfortunately when the servant was going. I had to stay in the pew. So I just get points and leave but I wanted to read on here. And I want to I want to. I is sort with reality too. Because I think it's so easy to forget that for two years, Donald Trump and his Republican party had an absolute monopoly over Washington, DC, all all the levers of power. And yet they never once made a serious move to fund this wall. Exactly. And you can contrast that with the things it was clear that the president and his congressional Jordi in both houses really cared about. Because there's of the things they would do anything to pass we had not that one go that Brett Kavanagh confirmations. As you recall. We had the tax cut that went through. We had the Neal Gorsuch confirmation. Those you could tell really really mattered to the powers and controlling everything to make them happen by contrast during that same time. There was never any effort to get this wolf funded to have the kind of emergency or crisis talk. We're having now. So that was one just sort of market test of did this really matter. No, it didn't matter to them when they had the power to do something about it. And it's just become a political embarrassment as you were saying before because Donald Trump has been ridiculed by some of his right wing opponents, and and to your point commentary, magazines, Noah Roth, and pointed out a few examples of how conservative Republicans not only. Didn't go along with the wall plan, but actually were hostile to it Senator John Cornyn stood next to President Trump yesterday less than two years ago. We told CNN, quote, I don't think we're just going to be able to solve border security with a physical barrier because people can come under as Mika was saying around it and threw it Lindsey Graham now asking the president declared national -mergency at the border, spins billions on the wall. But in March of twenty seventeen Graham said the border wall has probably not as smart investment. And also last year the Wall Street Journal found no Republican lawmakers. No, Republican lawmakers from southwest borders Seitz who supported Trump's funding requests to start the construction of the wall in July twenty seventeen thousand dodge to vote on funding. The wall two months later USA to survey USA today survey found that less than a quarter of congressional Republicans would endorse border wall funding, and James I actually could go on and on and on. On there. So many examples of that hostility, but we don't have to go back to two years ago. Your first point I think is equally effective, which is hey, let's just go back a week or two they were fine. Just a week or two keeping the government open. Yes. You go back actually to December eighteenth. And that's when all the newspapers reported that on a voice vote where there was no no sort of recorded opposition the entire Senate under Mitch McConnell had passed the kind of clean funding Bill that we're talking about. Now, the said, okay, let's keep the rest of the government going, and we'll worry about the wall later on. And Senator John Cornyn of Texas was saying we have every indication the president is behind this. And so December eighteenth that was the state of play December nineteenth is when and colder. Rush Limbaugh, Steve Doocy. The Fox News apparatus apparatus start saying, oh, what a concession what a cave in. This man is joker. This man is weak. And so it was not anything that change in realities. Just this mockery of whether. Donald Trump was a strong leader that was the ternan policy. And James, it's Willie Geist. The president reportedly has been encouraged to use the term crisis again, and again, so that he can walk himself up to calling this a national emergency. You've studied a lot of presidents over the years, you know, history. Well, what are your concerns about a precedent? If the president doesn't fact go down that road and declare national emergency. There have been many progressives and Democrats online facetiously some, but some just rhetorically saying great. So we'll do that for climate change. We'll do that for gun action. What are your concerns? If the president does do that. I think all the discussion you've had so far. There's our points out that if this were taken seriously the dangers that would lead to in a way, the worst obligation implication is that Trump is doing this cynically assuming that this is a way out of a box canyon these in. Now, if he assumes that a crisis or emergency declaration would be then stopped by the court. That's a way out for him. You can say to his base while I. Tried really hard. Just one of the quick point. If I if I can if you compare the make believe of the Genesis of this crisis with the real effect. It's having right now on hundreds of thousands of families and on businesses and on science and on air, traffic control and on the securities and Exchange Commission. I don't recall anything in my long repertory experience or the contrast between real world harm. And this fantasize shadowboxing motivation has been historically this Jimmy in here. I ask you this question. We, you know, a close observer of these matters. And this is a topic of great interest on this show. I mean, the moral rot and ideological rod in the Republican party has this is not the first time we've seen it. We've watched it happened over on the fold over the last two years, and you could argue with actually was the thing that gave rise to Trump in the first place. But is it not the case? I've always thought that as bad as they are at some point the political calculations come into play if you're on the hill and there's going to. Art to be cost. Usually, it's the cost the political costs associated with a shutdown the drive people to the table. What is it right now about this Republican party that makes it not just thrall to Trump, but seemingly immune to the normal laws of political physics that at and political self interest that drive people to the table kind of regardless of of what else is going on. I think that is the question that historians fifty years from now it'll be wondering about in alarmed way about this era, but it just is a sunshine mid that if Mitch McConnell and his colleagues were feeling uncomfortable enough about this. They could obviously change it. They can re pass them resolution. They did three weeks ago. So there is something about McConnell, and the people around him that make them think that it's better to stay on this ship as it heads unknown destinations. But it is at the cost of people who are not being paid and the rest of the country. So that's a long way of saying. I don't know. I share your question. James I want you to get to your third point because it's equally important. Tell tell us the third point. So my third point is that there really is not any crisis except number one the political one for Trump. And of course, the humanitarian crisis the people who are being trapped by this. I I did my long cover story for the Atlantic about the border in nineteen eighty three, you know, during Ronald Reagan's first term, and I was traveling all around the border, and even then you had the idea of fences and certain populated areas. You had other parts of the border that were too big defense. You had you know, he'll copters you had sensors that have evolved and compared from that time to this the border has become more under control. You ask anybody who lives near the border who follows these movements over the last decade has become a more stable more manageable more less weld west situation than before. And as you pointed out the things seized by the cops and displayed we're at airports and bridges. So if Trump wanted a fantasy world Trump could say look how well things are going under. Me, you know, crossings or going down that branches are going down. So the the objective situation of the border is not a crisis. The crisis is a political one James final question. I just want you to reflect actually on what's happened since you worked like Dr Brzezinski for Jimmy Carter. President Carter was the first to declare a national emergencies based on the seventy six act, and he used it very sparingly. In fact, only in response to very dramatic events in Iran of you, what do you share some of our concerns that whether it's a Republican president or a democratic president the continue eroding of article one powers poses a real threat door constitutional Republic, certainly and there's been a chronic low grade version of this for decades, which is what I called Atlantic article the chicken hawk phenomenon. Congress never won. To take responsibility for proving military action. So they of seed this the president more and more. But these stepwise functions of saying, okay, I'm going to aggregate this and that power that's been a danger for two hundred plus years in a more cute one. Now, I can say that the Carter administration deliberated so carefully with its Justice officials in which national security officials, and it civic officials saying if we do this what will it mean for our success over next successor for removed? I think most presidents were their different political views and their different inclinations have said this is a serious step. We may be taking you don't get the sense that Stephen Miller and Trump or having that conversation now. All right James follows. Thank you very much. People should check out his latest book our towns of one hundred thousand mile journey into the heart of America. Absolutely. Coming up. All right. Welcome back to morning, Joe. It is Friday January eleventh along with Joe Willie and me we have national affairs analyst for NBC news and MSNBC John Hellman MSNBC contributor. Mike barnicle is with us and joining the conversation democratic Senator come LA Harris of California. She has do books out the truths. We hold and American Journey and children's books. Superheroes are everywhere. I love it. Welcome to the show on board. You we we want to talk to you about twenty twenty politics. But first, let's talk about the issue at hand in Washington with so many federal employees getting paychecks today with a big fat zero on them. What is it gonna take to end this shutdown? What's it gonna take to push Mitch McConnell over the edge, and perhaps get them to cut a deal? And if the president cuts a deal on on dreamers. A strong one would that be a way to ending the shutdown? Well, I make. Let's let's put all of this in context. Right. The the president at this point is holding the American people hostage over his vanity project. That's what's happening. And this is a crisis of his own making. I I find it. Outrageous. And it would be fascinating if it weren't potentially so destructive to sit back and think that he's talking about issuing an emergency order of over a crisis of his own making the crisis. Here is that we have a president. And I'd states was putting politics above the needs of the American public. And and that's where we are. And I hope that all of us who have taken an oath to act on behalf of the people we represent with step up and step up and speak out on behalf of the American people. We are talking about the TSA people who are responsible for paying attention to national security and making sure that we are safe. We are talking about FBI agents who are furloughed. We are talking about people who have dedicated their lives to working on behalf of the American people in the interest of public safety. So the irony here is that this president is talking about a wall as because this is going to keep out so-called terrace, which we know is not true. In the interest of public safety when each day is choking, the very people who are responsible for actually making sure that we have public safety everyday as Americans. It's gracious Democrats, an ex should Democrats and Republicans at this point be meeting on their own should be they tried to find a way around the president. Can there be some unity, and at least agreeing that crisis is a word that's being misused and this shutdown has to end, I think, you're exactly right. The United States. Congress should recognize the crisis that actually is at play right now, which is a crisis of leadership, and whether there is a void in a vacuum in particular. Then we should be compelled to step up. No question. There's no question. So Senator this is actually more specific problem for you and your state because the New York Times is reporting this morning that President Trump is looking and asking if he can divert emergency funds away from your state recovery for from the wildfires in northern California to take thirteen point nine billion dollars allocated for hurricane in wildfire relief and have the army corps of engineers, take that money and use it along the. Order. What's your reaction to that idea? Again. It's outrageous. And it's really it's it's it's sad to be honest with you, and I say this because I've traveled to Puerto Rico after that island was devastated by natural disaster. I went to paradise California. And I met with the families. The fires were still the smoke. You could it was in the air, and I met with these families who will never be able to return to a home. They only knew I met with firefighters when I was in paradise, California. Who as they were fighting fires knew that their homes had burned down. This is these are the real stories behind this political manipulation that is happening, and it is absolutely irresponsible. And it is not only irresponsible, and we can sit back and talk and drink our coffee about oh, this is outrageous. It's actually harmful on a daily basis to real people who have a right to believe that their government and its leaders will act in their best interest and not in their selfish interests. And that's what's happening. And it's a it's a farce. It's a farce because this is all happening in the so-called interest of public safety. Well, what about first responders? What about people whose lives have been devastated by natural disasters? They should be are concerned. Not to mention the fact that you wanna talk about throwing around five billion dollars. The American public would live to love to see those five billion dollars put into building up roads and bridges that are falling apart. Into money that we need to to infuse a system that maybe would would allow for the first time affordable childcare for working families. There's a lot we can do with five billion dollars instead of a vanity project. Let's be constructive than we've identified the problem. We know who it's hurting right now. Those paychecks won't go out today. What's the way out of this? We've asked a number of your colleagues over the last few days, the president says five point seven billion dollars or bust. I'm not moving your democratic colleagues Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer said you're not getting five point seven billion dollars in most Democrats, and progressives would agree with that position. So how do we get out of this? Up. We have to speak up. So I'm going to give you as an example, something that just comes to mind when this administration created a policy of ripping babies from their mothers and fathers arms. People spoke up and put the pressure on the administration saying this is not reflective of our values of our mores. And what we want to see in terms of the role of our country when it comes to people most in need people have to speak up. There is power in that there is power in elected members of the United States, Congress speaking up in the interest of their constituency and the American public about Republicans. I'm talking about every Republican senators put pressure on the president. He might buckle on the five point seven billion. I think that that. Yes. I do. I do I do believe that my Republican colleagues are respected by their constituents. I do believe that all of us in a position of elected leadership, the people who elected us, and even those who didn't look to us to give them some idea of what's going on with their government, and they pay attention. When we tell them what's happening. And when we are honest with them, and when we speak truth, and they listen, and this is still a democracy Willie. This is still a democracy. And I do believe the people's will and their voice will be respected, but we have to encourage it. And that's that's the responsibility of a leader. This is what's going on guys? Let me tell you what's going on behind the scenes there is that rhetoric. And then there's what's really happening. And there are some Republicans who were star. Going to speak up. Others like Lindsey Graham has we pointed out earlier encouraging the president to declare national emergency long overdue. Hey, Senator let's talk about a national crisis in Los Angeles. A potential teaches strike nine hundred schools has been delayed until Monday eighty percent of the children in those schools live in poverty on Santa part of the element of the debate over potential strike is the cost of healthcare for teachers some teachers receive lifetime health benefits along with this. Spouses, the cost is enormous. So this is not just Los Angeles. This is all over the country the national crisis that no president. At least President Trump is not address from the Oval Office is the rising cost of healthcare. Eighty percent of children in one school district living in poverty, that's not unusual with like no shot for your future or the future that had. That's right. What are we going to do? Well, you know, I think that part of what we have to acknowledge is a very uncomfortable truth, which is that we are a society that pretends to care about education, but not so much the education of other people's children. And we need to be honest about that we have allowed our public education system to actress. To your point. I am a beneficiary of public education when I was in public schools and elementary school in California. It was ranked as one of the highest in the country because we were putting the resources into supporting our teachers in recognizing their value and paying them commensurate with their value. We were putting resources into the classroom knowing that that is going to be the best indication of what our future will look like in terms of our economic health in terms of our standing in the world and we've fallen short, and it has to be a policy priority on a national level to your point as well as on a state level on a local level to be how do you explain the difference between race and class the argument in schools about how some kids make it and some kids don't is a long conversation. You wanna sit back I'm happy to have it. There's a lot to talk about on both pieces in both are absolutely relevant to what we see as outcomes and also not only outcomes, but will. What yet what we actually are putting into the system. I'll I'll credit former governor Jerry Brown, and I'm a huge fan of the current governor Gavin Newsom, but Jerry Brown actually a few years ago created a system in California where even local control, and in particular changing the factors that we consider in terms of what we put in terms of resources into school district factoring, for example, the number of children who are in the school district who are in the foster care system, factoring, for example, the household income of those families and zip codes, I'm going to tell you might got me we can get into some real detail here. I think so much public policy would be better. If we started to really factor in zip codes. In terms of how we distribute resources and the beauty of it. I'm really going to get into detail, which I talked about in my book is also that right now in terms of public policy in our country that we can get into that level of detail because we also have the technology that allows us to collect large amounts of data that's called big data and analyze it. In a way that we could be so much more effective with the distribution of limited resources, and I would start with public education Joep nam come. First of all we want to talk about your book. Ruling I make side. Can't way. On the show because you wanna talk about both books. That's been waiting for months and months. Good. And superheroes or everywhere unless they're women. All it's always wanted to talk about that said, we're going to talk about that in a second. This Joe, I'm ready think. We're talking about it in the second. I question is there's been an awful lot of talk about you running for president. How how close are you to making that decision? I don't think it said. Okay. Well, then hurt shy. Just. Look we care really night his transactions not working we care too much. But okay, that's fine. Okay. We'll take the pain and continue through more importantly, I want to ask you though, if you decide to run for president. I want to ask you the Roger Mudd question that he asks to Ted Kennedy that Ted Kennedy couldn't answer really his presidency from day one. And that is why would you want to be president? Because I believe our country wants and needs leadership that provides a vision of the future of our country in which everyone can see themselves in which everyone can see themselves. And so let's start from that. And then think about what we need to do to speak to all of the people of our country to ensure that we see them to understand. We don't need to accept false choices in terms of how we approach public policy. I'm a career prosecutor, I've spent my entire life in almost focused on public safety. We can do that and also focused on issues like what we need to do to build a healthy economy. We need to also recognize that right now, we aren't an inflection point not only in the history of this country. But the world, you know, there's been so much focus, especially among the political pundits start island about, you know, the significance of twenty sixteen and what would have been different certainly a lot would have been different. But what would not have changed is that we are still a world globe? That is in the midst of an. Industrial revolution. Will you're seeing. Ascending and descending economies. We are seeing shifting populations for a variety of reason reasons, including what we need to talk more about which is climate change. There was so much change happening in the world. And for the question, I think for us as a country is where do we want to be in this moment? And where do we want to be in the near future, and we need to claim our position, and we need to start thinking about that. And that involves thinking about what are we doing to prepare the workforce for the jobs of the twenty first century? What are we thinking about in terms of recognising that some people will applaud China for its efficiency and effectiveness, and maybe even point to it as the new model of economic power. But one of the things we have always prided ourselves on and is a source of our strength as we have been in economic power that understands that Kannan should coexist with an equal commitment to human rights and a quality and freedoms these are the issues that are being presented to. Our country today. So let me think about but I can touch. And. I'm just gonna get to that. Because that's really why your hair. I just wanna fuck up on this last question. And then we're going to get. You know for those of us that have been following this before too long and been connected to Washington for four too long. And we saw the forty second president impeached. We saw the forty third president come in. And he campaigned as UniteR not a divider, and in fact, and you talk to people in Texas, George W Bush worked very well with Democrats in Texas, Barack Obama the forty fourth president had that remarkable speech in Boston when he said, I don't see a red America. I don't see a blue America. Icy one America, and then of course, another eight years of of divisive divisive presidency, not blaming Bush are Obama. I'm just saying they couldn't figure out a way to crack that code. And of course, now, we have Donald Trump if you run for president, and you were the forty sixth president, how do you bring this country together? So. So people. In Tuscaloosa, Alabama, or are in into pecans and think that you were there president every bit as much as somebody on the Upper West side of Manhattan, or in San Francisco, so it has to be because one knows in their core in their being in their soul, and in their heart that the vast majority of us as Americans have so much more in common than one separate sense. You have to know that, you know, it's an interesting thing. There's there's inference that in a in a in a place where there is a diverse. There's diversity in diverse populations. There is some suggestion that where there is diversity. We cannot achieve unity think of it almost as a mathematical formula. Right. Diversity cannot equal unity. Well, I was suggested and actually propose at different mathematical formula diversity plus x equals unity, and the X is commonality. We will remain a diverse country. That's part of our strength and beauty to your point the origin. The story of origin of Topeka Kansas versus Manhattan is very different industries that that rose and empower those communities are very different not to mention what we could talk about in terms of racial diversity class. Diversity all of those other things we are diverse by nature, and that is a source of our strength. It is a mistake. However to suggest that in that diversity. We don't have incredible common priorities and values, and here's how I think about it. As an example when people wake up at three o'clock in the morning, or you can call it the witching hour in the middle of the night with that thing that's been weighing on them when they wake up in a cold, sweat when the vast majority of us wake up thinking that thought it is never through the lens of the party with which were registered to vote. It is never through the lens of some demographic upholster put us in and for the vast majority of us when we wake up thinking that thought it has to do with one of just a very few things are personal health. The health of our children our parents for so many Americans. Can I get a job keep a job pay the bills by the end of the month? The vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us, and we have to reject these powerful voices that are trying to so hate and division among us. And I believe the way to do it is to recognize the truth about who we really on and to speak to that truth. Well, that's a perfect segue to book the truths. We hold think talking about. This is actually at a time where the truce is is being put in question every day on the president United States much of the book is framed around your mother and your story. How much of your story prepares you for public service to think especially at perhaps even the highest level of it. So thank you. And you I think most of us appreciate the impact that our parents have had on our lives. And I in particular, my mother, you see a picture of my parents when they were married. My mother had a very profound impact on who. I am and she was all of five feet tall. But you would have thought she was seven feet tall. Her whole goal in life. She was a breast cancer researcher was to raise her two daughters and end breast cancer. And I was raised in a community of people who who lived and believed and taught us that your life has to be on one level or another and service of others. And the critical point about how I was raised as that that to be clear that this is not about a charitable pursuit. You don't do it. Just because oh, I have a little extra to give. So I'm gonna just dole it out at art lovely and wonderful because I'm so benevolent and give a little bit of what I have to get. No. I was raised within understanding that it's a duty daughter of immigrants. Yes. And that it is a duty that we each have to each other. And that in many ways formed my life, I chose with that kind of calling if you will or with that spirit to go to law school. I wanted to be lawyer. I my. Arrows growing up with Thurgood Marshall and all those folks. And and then I decided to become a prosecutor because I believed that there were vulnerable and voiceless people who deserve to have a voice in that system. And also because I hoped from within the system to do what I could in terms of reforming the criminal Justice system, so Heilmann so. I'm gonna ask you a question. That's not directly about the book. But did you read the book, I read art, I apply? Sped read through this thing index. Right. That was very quick. Right. So there is a there is an index. Like, you have to look and see if you names not in it people won't read it looked. I looked to. Thirty seven times in the book. So it's worth reading. Here's my question is the woman who wrote this book is sits on the Senate Judiciary committee next week is we're going to begin the process of confirming. A new attorney general who has written some things as a private citizens expressing a lot of skepticism doubt criticism of the special counsel someone who's not been meeting with a lot of your democratic colleagues. I don't know if you've met with him or not. But tell me what your attitude is. I know you're not going to say you're going to prejudge it. But just what are the kinds of questions you want to ask him in? What do you think your your your recommendation your vote for his confirmation or not what are the things on which that will turn? One I to your point point of the question and all that we know just as a public matter. I am interested in knowing what he believes we're the incentives for his nomination to be the next attorney general of the United States. Did he believe that it was important for him to write letters about special counsel? And if that's the case that's troubling. And I worry about that. Because as a former attorney general of the state of California, and is again, someone who's focused on these issues Mike for most of my career. I would hope that the motivation would be to do the work of Justice to make sure that that it would be important for me sitting on the Senate Judiciary committee to make sure that that he is motivated by the right inappropriate interest to lead the United States Department of Justice. So those are part of my concerns. I'm also going to be curious frankly about his position on what the department of Justice has done in the last two years under this administration. And because there are so many big things and. Stories that pop every day. I think we've lost sight of what quietly is happening in this administration in so many of its agencies, including the department of Justice intend to focus on that as well full up super-quick on one thing, which is do you think that if he gets confirmed, which is likely to given the party, the nature, the partisans split in the Senate, do you think there's a case on the base of what we know already for him to recuse himself from managing the Muller. I there's a good argument to be made that he should recuse himself. Yes. Senator Harris before we let you go. I want to just ask you again. I know you're not going to be clear candidacy here we got to. Let's be clear your kin. We'd be happy. Oh, special got you might run last night. I understand he got there. But let me just ask you as a we can speak hypothetically. But if you were to run for president, what would be your posture to President Trump is there is this kind of debate inside the Democratic Party about how you handle up. No one questions that you could handle them. We've watched your career. We bought question James Komi, and Jeff Sessions, and rod Rosenstein, and very public settings. But this new class of Democrats who've come in have gone with a full frontal posture. You know, the language we've heard from from certain members as well. But we've sent that. Also, let's not forget the language we've heard from longstanding members in the last twenty four hours. Yes without question without question. But we watched sorta I'm thinking back to the two thousand sixteen campaign Marco Rubio sort of tried to play Donald Trump's game and use insults, and those kind of things and it just didn't work. What would be your posture to a President Trump policy is an entirely different question. We know where your disagreements are there. But how would you handle them? Would you fight him retort? Would you use the kind of language we've heard in the last few days? Candidly, my focus would be if I were going to run would not be Donald Trump, you'll be the voters and the people of our country they deserve. I believe to hear from anyone who wants to be a leader. They deserve to hear from any one of us who puts ourselves out there how we are going to be relevant to their lives. And I believe that should be the focus of the conversation. And to the extent that it would invariably bring up what the administration has done or not done. Of course that is relevant. But I believe that the motivation for the conversation and the focus of the conversation should be. How are we or whether we are relevant in the lives of people who are living everyday who expected should trust that their government is thinking of them and not of ourselves. So that would be my motivation. All right, Senator Kamala, Harris, it's great to have you on the show. Thank you so much obeying on. Thank you. The new books to books are the truths. We'll and American Journey there. A children's books. Superheroes are everywhere. Thanks very much. We have been much more. You're watching morning, Jim. We will be right back morning. Joe? Willie Geist here. If you like the long deep dive conversations on morning Joe every day. I think you will love my Sunday sit down podcast every week. A new extended unedited interview with another big star with names from Bill Murray. Jerry Seinfeld, and Kevin Hart to China Garton. Claire Foy me lacunas? Mark wahlberg. Ryan Reynolds, Lenny Kravitz, and yes jaylo I could continue name dropping, but you get the idea. You can check out the free Sunday sit down podcast wherever you get yours.
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