20 Episode results for "Jocelyn"

515 Beyond Ever After; Catherine Weissenberg and Jocelyn Montanaro

Mindfulness Mode

30:26 min | 11 months ago

515 Beyond Ever After; Catherine Weissenberg and Jocelyn Montanaro

"Mindfulness mode five hundred fifteen. The reality that we know on this earth isn't really all that there is that there's something much more an it's an integral part of our everyday lives which we I don't think really live like it is mindful tribe. I'm sure that every one of us has struggled with daft with letting go with this whole notion of how do we move forward at one point in our life or more and that's what our interview today is about our interview. Today is with two women who have written of phenomenal book called beyond ever after and I have to tell you I picked up his book and it just pulled me and to the point that I was fascinated and couldn't put it down until I was finished. The book is phenomenal. And you can go to beyond ever after dot com and check out that website. But with me today I have the authors Catherine Wisenberg and Jocelyn Montenero and this is going to be a fascinating fascinating discussion. I'm sure of it but I'll start with you catherine. What does mindfulness mean to you? Well you know. Mindfulness I now is a very frequent term. That's bantered about Ri- So for me I'M GONNA Kinda go back to this idea of well. Of course obviously it means being judgment tree it means you know not being reactive those sorts of things leaving space to listen with your heart in our book we talk about heart to heart communication so. I think mindfulness is really dropping into the heart center and syncing from there rather than being you know. I think mindfulness is a misnomer in the label. Because mindfulness is this idea that you know you have to drop mind your draw that art at the chattering nattery line in order to drop into some other place so for me? Mindfulness is is more no mine concept than it is mindful so right and Joslin. This book is about you. It's about your husband and of course it's about Catherine but Jocelyn what does mindfulness mean to you? Well Catherine said very eloquently for me it just means being really intentioned about by thoughts and my words and my actions and that's actually changed for me a lot with this whole experience that was laid out in the book because before this I was probably the least Michael Carson you would know and Catherine probably sticker and tell you that would be screw Book he kind of got the review and I just really didn't think much what I said what I thought really how my actions affecting other people that myself and since then this whole experience. I'm just much more aware and more attention and I guess that's why would be for me right and you are lawyer and your husband a lawyer as well and you just came across as yeah. That was very clear in the book that you are a fairly skeptical person and what changed all that now. I kind of know because I I read the book but what changed all that for you. That part near the beginning of the book where everything seemed to take a right hand. Turn well as you said. I was skeptical and for your listeners. What I was skeptical about is just you know the presence of a higher power of a god of everything? That isn't something I can touch. Feel see eat drink. You Know I. I was very much in the physical kind of a person and so when I was my sister had encouraged me to do this writing with Catherine. I didn't really want to do that because one I didn't believe that she could do it too. I was so mad at God as it was that I didn't really want to have anything to do with 'cause he was killing my husband. And my in my mom. You Might WanNa hit that back note of. What was the situation Kevin? Your husband was in a coma Invading topic yesterday skeptics. Now when you have an experience like this and maybe you should talk about a little more as you just can't deny that that it's all there you know that the reality that we know on this earth isn't really all that there is that there's something much more and it's an integral pardon of our everyday lives which we. I don't think we really live like it is right right. And Mindful tribe all share a little bit of back information about Jocelyn and about Catherine Jocelyn spent most of her life in California and like I said she became a lawyer and she worked for many years as a lawyer working with divorced couples. And you know criminal defendants and that kind of thing and then you've already heard. Her husband drew a health condition. Ended UP IN A coma. And that's when Catherine Kinda stepped into the picture and Catherine has been sharing her unique ability to communicate and dialogue with God and with deceased people and with coma patients for decades. So that's what happened in this book is she was able to communicate with Kevin Joscelyn's husband who was in a coma and it became very clear that that was really life. Changing how that communication happened and as a reader. You're able to really make it very clear that this was not just some sort of fictional situation that you would come up with but yet it was like real true situation and Katherine. How did that happen? How were you able to make that clear to your readers that this was actually a real situation. That was happening. Well we had the advantage of going through this experience in real time and my gift is that I write not like I'm completely president. I don't go anywhere I know. It sounds Kinda strange but I right so we had all of that dialogue. We had the writings there. Six complete writings in the book. And we had those so we live the experience too so it wasn't really that difficult to convey it because we had. Ns matter fact. We actually recorded the sessions which I never do except for that first one so but basically we tell. The STORY IS A FOUR-PART NARRATIVE. I provide spiritual overlay. Kinda talk about my gift. Jocelyn provides what Kevin's condition was in her fears and then Kevin using through. My gift provides his vantage point while in a coma while dying while after death and then we have the god of peace that comes into so I think that that's why you sense the realness. We tried to really capture that as a way. If we were telling you bruce were sitting with you telling you the story. So we didn't have to make anything up Jocelyn always says will. Her part was easy. I do the more spiritual level. You know context of that. But you know like she said if you if you live the story you know the story you can tell the story right and Jocelyn have you communicated with Kevin recently and if you have. I'm very interested to know what that was like. You know I haven't recently but since he's this we started this. I think there's like fifty two writings so done them over the years and you can only get six in the book and we could make the book too long. But since the book's been done I've had mall dozens of conversations with him communications. I should say and you know for me being a single parent you know. My youngest son had just turned thirteen when he kept wing. Kevin died and as he was growing up is now almost twenty. You know I was able to talk with him about things that were happening with children and so I didn't really feel like I was going at it alone. Still and as you know from the book you know it's very specific you know what the people who are deceased know what you're doing and what you're up to and even things like and I think it's the book like when my son wanted to pick up the guitar but signed him up for guitar lessons that I bought him as a teenage sized Martin. Guitar Martin's are really below the tires and then the next writing I had Kevin says I'm so happy will kicked up guitar which she left a play and I'm really happy bottom of Martin because yeah you gotta start out with a really good instrument and that's a perfect size for him so specific so you don't really feel like the relationship is over when you can still have those Right yeah so you still feel his presence though on a day-to-day basis. Is that true? Yeah and in the book I talk about like sign from him from like spurlock getting assigned from him. And I get an and Catherine. It's that the divine safer necessities. That's a really important thing for people to be aware of And I get science from him all the time often. They're squirrel involved but often it's things like I'm in the car and I'm driving thinking about him and I have the radio on New People. Don't really listen to the radio. These days by the radio on Van Morrison Brown eyed girl comes on which is the saw. Healy said made him think of me. Because I was as Brown girl or a James Taylor Song we love James Taylor or just things that he just sends me these signs or an having coffee with some friends were talking about him. And then this butterfly Beautiful Purple Butterfly Cripples my favorite color twenty minutes it just flits around the table lands on my shoulder lands on my friend. Shoulders sits on the table and stayed the whole time. We were there and then left when we left in the next writing. You Know He. He said the butterfly. What's your favorite color? Did you notice you know so? We're getting these signs all the time as is in the book in Catherine speaking more right so yeah catharine. Can you tell us a little bit more about these sicker necessities that you are able to help people see well? I think that we all have them. So it's not about helping people see it's about helping people not dismiss what experience Transfat to the mindfulness bright we're so bombarded so other focus so are tensions flittering here there and everywhere and then we have these minds that will we haven't experienced the sense making machines. WanNa put it through the Plato Machine and say it means this and so when we're talking about signs we're talking about things like you smelled your grandmother's curfew and she's been gone for ten years or various different kinds of things. You know your grandma your brother loved. Cardinals are the cardinal burder you know and then the cardinals common sit at your window and stare at you like the Squirrel Story. It can be the whole gamut. You know for some people at it mean it's very individualized but it's something you recognize as an association with your departed love what and instead of dismissing that you go like. Oh Wow. That's so weird. I think whenever we going what's that that's strange and but we feel our heart letter a little bit and we're we know that there's something on about that and and and we we associate with that person the person that's gone instead to dismiss his own crazy. That's just a coincidence. That's nothing that we allow ourselves to have that experience because our loved ones are reaching out and trying to touch us in the ways that they are you know and surely all of us have had those experiences we have on our website and opportunity for people to share their stories and we're getting flooded with people sharing their stories because they're like when I was a vendor. I've never told anybody. So people are coming out of the woodwork. Because everybody's had that experience so it's when you have that experience wonder or grace that you associate or love you just you're scared and you feel all the sudden you feel your deceased mother's presence saying it's okay. Sometimes you hear like their voice in your head and so instead of shoving that away and dismissing it you just say thank you you all go to gratitude and the more you widened to that the more. You're going to have those experiences what I believe and know in my own experience the more that I am just being opened the open hand the open palm. The more things can come so it's not it's not a how to as much is. It is owning your truth owning your own experience and trusting yourself and the person you love. 'cause we're all connected through? The portal of our hearts is my belief and my experience. Right and mindful tribe. You can share those stories at the website beyond ever after dot COM. So do check that out if you have a story but once you read this book. I'm sure you'll want to share a story. Jocelyn now on the flip side of this I wanna ask already back just to let you know that William Woody rates it I I I send something back. So far. That's cool. That's really cool. Jocelyn you've talked so much about how connected you feel to Kevin. Let's talk about the other side about letting go year continuing to live your life. You're on earth and it's important to be able to have that balance. Isn't it about letting go but still feeling his presence? Can you address that for us? Yes at least the beginning. It's weird because since I had communication with him after he died even though he wasn't really here I didn't really feel you know like he was gone. And in fact after my husband died and I was still doing these writings. My son came to me my teenager and he said you know I kind of feel like you're cheating and it's not fair because not everybody gets this opportunity and I. He felt like it was preventing me from letting go and moving on because most people so final and it wasn't you know final for me although Kevin in all the writing since he's died as always encouraged me to move on and live my life in a lot of especially after the first year or two still was you know wanting me to get out of the house and start engaging again in life because I hold myself up for so long and so that was in the beginning hard. I think I don't I didn't really start like the process is most people would go through it earlier on. But then you get to a point and you you feel just call because you know you're always there always with you and you don't need to talk to them all the time because you know that they love you. You know that they're waiting for you. You know you're going to be together again. And that gives you the freedom or at least knee to go ahead and live this life as it should be lipped you know. Have you moved forward to another relationship or to another marriage or anything like that or have you even thought about you know I I did date. Somebody was probably more than four years. Paid for it half years after he died and it was a really good experience to you know. Kinda get back out there. But I'm GonNa always feel married to Kevin I. I still wear his wedding ring. singer and I was just in fact texting my son because I was having trouble. Getting my married name added to my driver's license. Because I didn't I didn't change my social security card or getting off topic but the DMV's like we'll just take his name off. And I was like no. I'm married you don't get it. Even though he said I'm I'm still married so it is. It is kind of a weird dynamic us right Catherine. I'm I'm just curious. Do you help people like this. On a weekly monthly basis to communicate with either people in Comas or people that have passed. You know with some regularity. It's not like I have a single out. I worked by referral only I by that I mean somebody who knows me And now with the book launch in the book out. We're just focusing on that. So I'm not doing any sessions for people but yeah I mean. I've been doing this for thirty two years so I've done hundreds of these kinds of things and just this week you know help to friends to referrals from people who you know because sadly people are dying and actually an you know this there is also the God section in the book so the deceased in coma. Writings are very small fraction of the kind of war. I do in general I mean but yeah it's very helpful for people so right. Yeah yeah it must be all. I can tell from the book that it must be very helpful for people. Yeah so let's talk more about the gods side of it because most well maybe not most but a lot of people may think it's either God or it's you know someone who is communicating with somebody who has died. You know what I mean like. They don't see the connect try so share with us. What that connection is so for me but God energy for lack of a better way to describe that in if you know. We make strong point in the book or I do. I'm using the term God but I don't care if people say it's higher power. I mean whatever. It is to people They can just substitute that were Kus. God tends to be charged for some people but in that aspect that energy. Just call it. Universal Love Alright. Or whatever I feel like we're all energy and we're all sitting in a very porous reality and for whatever reason I can put my hand in and pull that out. The God energy meets the person in these writings. They always have an introduction which is a theme for the rioting. And you see in the book you can get that it's very metaphorical. It's beautiful language and it just goes to the heart of it. We could talk for example we talk about. What is mindfulness? And we could have a symposium on that we could talk a lot about it or we could just stay God. What do you say? Mindfulness and get some sort of Analogy or metaphor that really encompasses a heart. The heart of something in a much deeper way. That makes you go okay. I've got I'm thinking of a person that. I did a writing for in a in the introduction. It says you wear your wounds like a growl now. That's pretty study. If you take that image what does it mean to wear your wounds like Crou- right? It makes you really look. That'S PRETTY STARK. And say WHOA. Oh my Gosh I am in my victimhood all the time I and you know there is no and I how did that. I'm such a great victimized. Even got a crown of victim. Good and it. Lets people shift from that energy that they may be holding in a way So the God portions of the writing are that way they just go straight to the heart of the matter and let you grasp these difficult concepts or behavioral patterns or whatever and and be able to see them for what they are enough to release them. So I don't know if that answers what you Jocelyn I wanna ask you this. I know that at the beginning of the book. You didn't consider yourself a religious person and you certainly were not a believer in any of the kind of things that that Catherine did. How is that change? Do you consider yourself kind of a religious person now or a believer in different kinds of things. Obviously you are believer in different kinds of things in your then but can you address that. Yes you know I still speak spiritual I don't and you know for me. It's still a foreign language foreign language to me but it's it's because I think but I go to church. It was funny. When Kevin was alive he was always trying to get to go to church. Sometimes we'd go. Sometimes you wouldn't and I am I now. I feel horrible but I can go with every single time but it was really his thing not mine through this experience knowing that there is a god the decare just a transition you know. I don't subscribe to a regular religion or anything because it's just so much more expensive than that. You know what Kevin said through Catherine and this is in the book when he got to heaven he just said this is just so much more than what I thought it would be that all my years of studying and he was always was reading spiritual texts. Always you know just very interested in an would meet with someone every week to talk about it and you know. I don't subscribe to anything regularly and I still don't speak spiritual but I know that I'm just held in such big loving armpits falling. I don't I don't have to do any of that. You know I'm good right. You D BE WHO? You are well as we move forward. I'm going to ask you five. Quick answer questions if that's okay and I'm just going to kind of bounce back and forth between the two of you so the first question is this and I'll ask I'll ask Catherine. Who is one person who has influenced mindfulness in your life? Well I say I'm unlike Dustin. I love workshops spiritual you know I get me to an all day retreat in. I'm in my happened spot for sure when I you know. This gift presented itself also at that time. I don't know if you've ever heard of Eugene Galvin bio spirituality. I don't know if you've ever heard of it but it was something that was a psychiatrist or psychologist presented and it was this idea that you. Kinda do an inventory of your feelings states. This is probably pre political. Mindfulness this is like a precursor and I would say the work that were has been very influential because it led me into this and there's website bio spiritual thought Oregon. So I would say that was very influential and of course you can't have had all the experiences I've had when I do my thing. I am knitted endless state. Which to me is mindfulness. I'm not running my agenda. I'm just in receptivity. The second question is this. How is mindfulness affected your emotions? Jocelyn and and I might say how have things changed in your life as far as your emotions are concerned since this first experience happened. That's outlined in the book. Well it's actually been great for me because before this. Apparently I was much more of a control freak than I am now. And there's Catherine making her faith is that we don't worry like I used to. I don't stress the small stuff. I don't stress a lot of the big stuff and I'm so much calmer than I used to be an I you know funny i. I don't really see it because I felt like always like this but my friends my family have just noticed this huge difference in me and I really think it's because I feel loved and I feel safe and I think before all this especially when Kevin was sick for those years even before that I don't think I ever really just felt safe inside myself. You know what I mean. I guess that's the best way to describe it. I just I feel safer and so I feel calmer and less worried and able to let things go and not have to always micromanage. Everything is it's really not important. Jocelyn. I'M GONNA ask you second question here and that is breathing. Is breathing a bigger part of your life like I'm talking about like deep breathing or noticing? You're breathing it. Has It changed since this experience now but now that you said that. I'm going to be thinking about all the time just interested in that and I WANNA ask you Catherine if you could recommend a book somehow related to mindfulness or any of this topic. What would it be other than beyond ever after? Which close today. Unfortunately I thought about this and I have detached retina have. I don't read because I sys is season image five times larger than the other one so. I don't read a lot but I do go to a lot of workshops and then there's person we're in Santa Barbara who's were I really love who I think is amazing in her name's rattling whining and she's got a book called. I think it's called artwork and she's Buddhist and she is amazing and her work is amazing and so I go in. Hab these experiences because I can't read you know. My brain just can't process that way anymore since by accident. So could you repeat the name of that Book One More Time? I think it's called hard work. I look it up I will look in its rattling. Weinberger in I think it's W. E. I. N. G. E. R. And her I wanNA look it up. Is I definitely want you? She is amazing amazing and I think she was a psycho anyway. I'll get link for you because I don't WanNa be talking out of school and I'll put that link into our show notes at Mile Dot Com. Oh yeah she is. I mean I go to her daylong retreats in. She is incredible. Her husband is also. He's a palliative care. Doctor and well he's used from England so it's not Anyway I'll look it up but anyway they are doing amazing work and definitely something to check out definitely I think it's hard work so you might WanNa ask Jocelyn questionable That Dawson Are there any APPS which help you to be more focused or more centered any apps you would recommend at all you know so funny? You should ask that because I am not someone who would ever do anything like that but I did. I did ten percent that APP. That's you know I can't go to sleep or something. I'll do their little guided meditation some time. So but that's the only one. I've gotten a friend of mine. Another lawyer recommended it to me. And that's what I can say. Have you heard of that one out? Have ten percent yes. Oh her. Book is Radical A. R. A. H. A. D. H. U. E. Wininger in the book's title is hard. Work the path of self compassion. Okay so benign that right. Thanks for sharing their well. It's been fascinating to talk to both of you. It really has and like I said I enjoyed the book very much beyond ever after such a powerful book well written and just pulls you right in so mindful tribe. I recommended beyond ever after and you can go to beyond ever after dot com and Catherine and Johnson. Thank you so much for both jumping on this call today. Thanks for having my pleasure all the best to you by now

Catherine Jocelyn Montenero Kevin Joscelyn coma Catherine Kinda Catherine Wisenberg Van Morrison Brown Catherine Jocelyn Joslin Ri Cardinals Guitar Martin Michael Carson Katherine bruce spurlock Healy president Transfat
Priscilla and Jocelyn Simon Share a Moment of Truth

Ponderings from the Perch

29:42 min | 8 months ago

Priscilla and Jocelyn Simon Share a Moment of Truth

"Welcome to ponderings from the purge today I have with me Jocelyn Simon. We've had a good time Connecting with each other around the world we talk on link Dental Jocelyn will welcome to ponderings from the verge. Finally thank you. I know it's been a long time coming but I'm super excited to be here. I have to say is my very first podcast appearance. So I'm excited got if I'm new to the podcast but not due to the stage we see you around the world getting some good quality time telling people what's what. Yeah yeah definitely Send Yeah quite quite a bit of time around the industry ten years back. So it's It's fun but it's also fun doing that. The podcast what we're GONNA get to more people but Jocelyn Simon is the senior VP. And she's the head of client services at NAILBITER and they. If you don't know who nailbiter is they really at. The core of things are helping brands. Unlock the shopper. Insights and really helping people capture that powerful moment. It happens so tell us a little bit before we get going just about your role at nailbiter. And what's so interesting going on over there right now? Yeah thanks. So it's it's been a pretty fast. Here is seven months so I joined later in show lie And it's been an awesome time because the offering like you said it's it's pretty exciting. Pretty unique qualitative in that. Were able to understand that moment of truth right at point of purchase. Is You know US observing that behavior in the moment that it's happening but we're doing it at quantitative scale and not so it really is is studying our platform in our approach apart. Because we're able to really and truly scale behavioral research so you know behavioral big Buzzword right now and it has been for for the past decade. I'd say Sack my my career in the behavioral sciences. For many years I was afraid. You Sir Someone Research for eight years so exciting to to bring my career to the next level and taking you know that in the moment. Purchase decision that we're able to observe through our mobile APP and quantify that night. It's been an exciting time getting the platform and the application out to the industry And really opening up those insights in the moment of truth. Yeah and you talk sometimes with me about this concept of quote. I'm using air quotes on podcast. Right now real behavior so and we've talked about this a lot in market research. What's the difference of reported behavior and actual real behavior reported emotions and real emotions? And things like this. So tell us a little bit about that concept of real behaviour as you as you observe it at Nailbiter yes still. Real behavior is observed in its most natural for right like I think this industry would blow wide open if we were able to passively observe and understand what humans were doing at all times. That's obviously not feasible or in alignment with any of the privacy contracts yet issues there but We're getting very close by observing so shoppers in their most natural state. So let me just back up you a little Bit Howard. Doing not yeah. So we're recruiting shoppers. That are going on intended shopping trips so through our mobile APP we invite people to download the APP and we asked him a couple of questions. Such as like. What's on your shopping list next on going to the store? So they're telling us what categories that there's GonNa be going to the store for if we're doing a project for chips for example and somebody says that they're going to be chipped than we invite them to take a short video of the show. The next time that they go to that trip so narrow telling us that they're going to the store we're not sending them on a mission and when they get there we're giving them very light instructions to take video of that purchase transaction and it's all happening through the mobile device men as you know the mobile devices like an extra appendage humans at this point so we have to Google glasses. We tested all sorts of mechanisms. And then we said wait mobile devices. Most natural things for people to use and video to write like video is how we communicate today. Facetime skype youtube people were just used to making videos talking Through experiences with our capturing real your right not faster. Got Me most excited about coming in the later die. We aren't relying on recalls behavior. We all know that the human brain is very unreliable and even projected behavior. What we say is not always what we're GONNA do so getting in that moment of truth so exciting to me and then bring. Our clients is so exciting for them and on the way that we're able to scale that and apply that the discussions. It's just it's been really fun marriage in terms of answering questions using bill behavior right because I can keep telling you all I want that. I'M GONNA buy this Louis Vuitton bag because it's a good investment but we all know is because people are vain so out there without example but yeah and and just a a good example to like private-label right privately. Is this huge competitor. For All of our our clients brand you get to the store you intend to buy. You know your name brand the chips for example but then you reach for for the cheaper private-label they have good flavors. They have a good branding now. So there's a lot of switching behavior happening in the moment and none of that is is predictable and none of that is really something that You know you can kind of plan for it right that that's happening in the moment. That's all happening at this show. Which drawing people into Miki's decisions ally that's happening in the moment though? It's super important that we're getting into that moment when you come from you come from system one research so. I don't have to tell you this could also be subconscious and so when I leave the store. I may think that I bought the name brand. So if you ask me now to self report. Oh Yeah I had every intention of the brand. I think I brought the name brand but actually might system went into just a automatic drive and I didn't and that that happens all the time it's sub-conscious and even private-label are are kind of quick copycatting. These name brands so that they are pinned against each other more closely so that people grab for the the option that looks like the name brand but might just be cheaper right so like and the great thing about video is that we observe thought and we could hear people saying. Oh I'm I'm buying lays but they're actually grabbing for something else. It's kind of crazy to see that happen but video evidence hard to to go. Yeah so it's nice to have lush at data well. I didn't know if you knew this about me. But my degree is actually in cultural anthropology. So talking about observing behavior. Yeah so I totally know where you're going with this but I would love to hear from your perspective. You kind of hinted at it a little bit before that. If we really could passively observe the consumer the data would be so rich and just so amazing. Now we get these little snippets of being able to do it through your platform but tell me exactly how those methodologies that you're talking about this passive Observation how would these methodologies really revolutionized the insights industry? That's what you alluded to a little bit. Yeah I mean if you think about dated Thing in out there for example on a new product launch accompany spent so much time and money and energy into concept testing. Come innovating coming up with this idea of packaging price point go to market strategy and finally out there right. The ton of time spent to get a product out there. And what do we do? We wait for sales data. Say Dot dot how you determine whether your products GonNa be successful and not you know is is a good indicator doing well If you're not doing well to you'll you'll know through sales data but understand why greatly dot dot the blackbox that that I think were able to open and and let our clients peak and to say what is going on in the store. It's a jungle out there and there's so much that can be going on but you product launches. A ton of money goes into that to understand why that product launch might be successful or not. What are the challenges that we might need to overcome? That's the type of insight that that were able to Irvine because the the the instructions are are light and they're they're very top line right like they've indicated that they're going to the store for that category where able to observe if they naturally even notice your product right not to be a huge huge issue. If if you're not getting noticed she can't get purchased. So are you not getting noticed because of placement on show is there you know a need for more education or marketing Is it adjacency is to who you're sitting next to your your colors blending in with with the the neighbors that you're sitting next to on shelf all these things. We can test and understand just by letting shoppers shop range that they know that they're making a video but beyond that they have no idea what we're looking for. They're just going in there to make their purchase decisions so right by being a possible were really able to revolutionize how for example new product launches might be You know you done. In the market and the insights that can be provided at the speed that we can provide them right. So You keep saying you know the shelf space and being sat in adjacent to some this is why I I highly recommend having only ugly friends. Because you're you look like the best one on the shelf. It's not working out for all these gorgeous friends but so you've talked about the shelf. Life and there is a lot of conversation obviously in consumer packaged goods about the end cap about you know the the placement. I level all these things but I wanted to point out Interesting conversation you. I had a while back that. It's not just the the Experience on the shelf in the store but that you were also able to work with companies to help them see the customer making the decision even online. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah so obviously. Ecommerce loading environment Lots of people are shopping online and getting their groceries delivered or they're doing online grocery. Pickup is all these new ways to shop. And it's totally disrupted our environment. Which is great right? Change needs to be disruptive and I think you know these. These companies that are are supporting online bursary pickup and delivery or are getting it right To be able to visualize that companies have been used to being available in brick and mortar only in in in the past few years. It's exploded and we do research and research a lot at nailbiter. Were seeing these trends up all the time with online shopping. Just going through the roof. So no news air right. Everyone down but understanding that environment is totally another black box to talk to clients all the time. Just have no clue how their category is now the gated online. What search terms today US do? Do they go in type in oreo? Or are they just looking for cookies? Like what is how is that. What does that pass to the purchase? Look like And where can we have intercepted? Make that shopping experience. Better for them. where should we be present on the category page? You know getting that data to to help drive those conversations with retailers around the search term best optimized. For Brand the category and then of course the whole fulfillment experience. That's a complete Jungle on it. Oh Bill we've actually help. Our clients and deserve the fulfillment process at home when somebody gets their groceries delivered when they picked him up at the store using video were able to observe their satisfaction with that experience but also any gaps in in that profits. Because it's new. It's all just exploding tap Yourself so Yes something we can capture recapture the mobile device screen tablet desktop. And then as they're making those decisions there narrating so we're getting into the the whys behind the by law. I love how you're talking about. Data as something that we use to drive meaningful conversations with the client and then they want to drive meaningful changes whether that's an a launch or that's in you know an situation all the way. Down like you mentioned even the fulfillment experienced you're looking to help them Fix those gaps. But you and I talked a little bit about this concept of data that is helping them take action but you have a little bit of a funny pet peeve about the word actionable so tell me about that. Let's kind of break down this market research. Funny pet peeve. Yes it will all talk to. The action will ray or else we you know. Clients when it commissioned projects. They WANNA learn something they want to be able to take a reporter at Ernst and then do something by Think. Actionability has gone a little blown out of proportion. I think it is sometimes misused. I would say I think in the error of short termism. That's been exploding recently and I think things like Mark Pritchard from pg announcing that you know the digital spend doesn't do as much as they thought it is like there's all this pressure around action delivering action and results in. It's been I think used in the past few years almost like an fear a threatening fashion that every incident has to lead to action and I agree but action doesn't have to always the Answering specific question right action can be Foundational Research. It can be discovery or nation or can even lead to the next question. But I think there's just a lot of pressure on on marketing departments and insights department to always know what's next after a research report and not I think Just kind of high expectations. I I do think that our industry should be held to high expectations but incisive discovery right. It's not always GONNA lead to the question that we need to answer right now. Just might bring us to the next step and I think we we should be more accepting forgiving of that process that new sites limitation cross as. It's not necessarily Afghans are asking answer right. And I think with more innovative methodologies that keep popping up they've starting to illuminate the consumer and the shopper experience and not just going to lead to more and more questions and that's okay right. It's it's it's a question leading to another question. I think is a beautiful thing and I think we should just appreciate that more and not always feel like we need to seek an inside report and run and go do something there you know and but that also poses a challenge timing right. Everyone's always under crunch time line. So I know everything I say is like a perfect world but my little pet peeves. Okay this is. This is my podcast in. This is my podcast. We can have our perfect world just when we're creating it. Let's take a short break. Teams are getting smaller. But you still have to get your research infield if only you could partner with global expert to be an extension of your team without the extra overhead look no further gazelle global provides the ad hoc services. You need when you need visit. Global DOT COM to learn more about how we can handle global sampling. Field Management Data Collection. Our team is ready to lend our expertise to complete projects to your specification visit. Gazelle global DOT com today. You know I kind of wonder if like as you were talking it makes me think about how we have really more embrace. This concept to the consumers path to purchase is not one two three four five. It's not you came from system one. They certainly understand. There's not a logical you know A step journey to picking up your product. People are more complicated than that and I think that approach to Also to market research. You know whether it's an acknowledgment of the iterative approach or maybe even the more approach where it needs to be seen always as enlightening is this enlightening us. In anyway are we getting value or meaning out of it? That's also embracing this idea that while the path purchases not just this logical step process also the path to understanding consumer behavior could not possibly be linear like that either right. Yeah things don't happen. In a vacuum more adoptive to the fact that like technology and media has just allowed us to be so much more Diana humans certainly consumers right like there's so much of able to us to educate ourselves so many new smaller brands during the space. It was a long time ago that there was only a couple of brands in every category. Now it's like you can't keep up with the the new smaller Kind of Funky are trendier. Brands that are launching their own things. So it's a complex landscape. His think you're right like we. We just don't know how consumers act not at all linear. Yeah at all I think. That's why innovative approaches and platforms. Like nailbiter make this process that much more interesting because we're really getting closer and closer to the human behavior itself not farther from it and you know you. Just don't feel that kind of sense of just total removal and objectivity when you're watching those videos of someone shopping. You feel like a part of it. Yeah and that's like that's what I love so much about. The past seven months is that we love that but when we get the show our clients it's so rewarding. It's it's a again opening up a box and just observing their their consumers and shoppers in the real world and if exciting for them. I'm seeing them on video. We have clients that will watch every single video that we have on a dashboard. And that's not. Even our finals. Liberal our final deliverable is like a full powerpoint report with metrics data and action and like we. We have this video dashboard. That comes with it where they can see all the videos. But there's like one hundred fifty to two hundred videos projects and we will have clients wash every single one just because it's so I think fine also fascinating and insightful for them to watch them and then they bring those video to their retailers and really starts to accomplish right You know they get to build their relationships with their with their customers as well which is definitely important for category management shopper insights to to build those relationships sales and everything kind of mutually beneficial for for both parties had seen it puts the human back into the whole mix here. No this was a human who looked at your products so this isn't just a report. The human should have never gone anywhere to right. There's a lot of automation going on a lot of human. I think Human at the center of it. So that's one of your pet peeves and I think it's funny and I like talking about it with you. Because then other people walk up and we started talking about it and I think it's always good to keep that conversation going in the industry one of my pet peeves kind of standing outside of the. Mr World is that the a lot of 'em are companies. I work with. They cannot divulge who they work with. And it is. I mean this is really across the board and I think what's interesting is that you know here. I'm you know own a marketing agency and we constantly get say who we work with and who we work for and so I always feel that. Mr Firms are at this. You know this competitive disadvantage because most often than not they have to stay silent on the matter but this is not always true with platforms and technologies like yours. So do you have any insider information about why that is case well so we of course have restrictions as well they help God Jax and confidentiality agreements with look quite difficult of any market research firm? That that don't want to disclose their relationship with any company And that's true across the board right. That's that's always gonNA be Heard of you know. Legal Agreements I think what we see at biter. Is that people want to talk about the work. They're doing with us because they're using a truly unique approach and they want to showcase that And not something that you know. We're obviously credibly excited about but to see their excitement to want to speak with us at conferences to tell their story to show the industry. Hey look at this approach and the answers that we got From observing our shoppers our consumers. It's very very rewarding for both of us and I think that's something that when I got here I was pretty flora to see the amount of interest in wanting to get on stage and talk to their peers. Talk to the industry about what they're doing and You know I think in terms of the industry at setting a new bar right. It's it's new innovative methodologies. Keep popping up like the stuff that we should continue to showcase at the industry because You know setting new viruses. It's saying hey this is what we're doing what's next right. So you keep kind of increasing the the amount of innovations non dot. That's exciting for us but also our clients. Yeah I love hearing it when you co present with someone else because I do think it gives a great data science approach and then it really gives a minute for the the end client state but this was the problem. This was the you know emerging in the persistent problem that we just could not get unstuck about and so this is how we were able to get unstuck and I think the two sides of it to me really make it a much better presentation. I think that we all learn from that kind of a process. Yeah and I would also add that. Think Industry again. If any market research agency of you are true partner and your flexible and creative and you design and build approaches around their questions if it's more and more perfect for them every time so that ability to custom consultancy that ability to stand inflex platform around specific questions that has been really powerful for us but our clients especially because they come with a question and will we will use the platform in design. Something around it. Now we have you know. Applications that are off the shelf more or less but the beauty of the properties that we can be really flexible so dot allows us to be partners dot allows us to be consultants with them to answer very specific questions and provides obviously very quick answers. Well I feel Jocelyn with your bachelor's in psychology my bachelor's in cultural anthropology in your masters in marketing I think we take over the world. I think we can understand what humans are doing. A lot of human understanding background WASHER will hand to end with a little bit of a humanizing piece on our podcast. A little bit about what you're reading. And what's influencing you right now. So do you have a blog or a book that you're reading right now that you'd like to share with us so yes so my husband got me into a to. You have to read it. You have to read it. I picked it up and like this looks like one of those cheesy like airport books. One of those books you find in the drugstore and called Rich Dad Poor Dad classic classic. The cover needs a bit of work again because it was totally turned me off but it has totally changed the way I think about money and in how to invest in financial freedom and it's written from a very like edgy approach In the eighties. His so it's just very interesting costing about how read been tie in society to go to school. Good Education. Get a good job. Save all your money and that just totally the book totally flipside that on his head and it was awesome. Awesome read and it. It's totally changed the way we think about money so and I write about the cover. The nine hundred eighty two called and they want their quarterback the author. It'd be somewhere else. So this is your first time being interviewed on a podcast. But do you listen to any podcast out a medium that you enjoy? I mean I. I came into the podcast. World like many others did through serial so value. My favorite podcasts is just. It was such an intriguing story and very well done. I listen to the happy. Mr Pack passed and that has really great content ponderings from the perch of course content is actually enjoyed taking your episodes But I keep it pretty. Like industry focused. Do Okay Yeah. That's really interesting. If you like cereal that did you listen to s town. Yep I the other. Oh Gosh game changers game changers so a Lotta Times. I asked what people's favorite APPS are. Do you have an APP that you just love? Go to on your phone yet so it has to be my white noise out. I the sound machine ever since I was in college. And the party's going around on all the time I had to sleep with a fan on. I got used to that stuff to that. And then my whole life. I've slept with with a sound machine hotels. I remember the first time we went to the hotel Michael. God I don't have my sound machine. I could not sleep so when I found the white noise F changed my life. I've got a little different question for you and I haven't asked this to my other interviewees before but do you recall. What was the last APP? You just deleted off your phone. I ask this because this is human behavior and it is interesting. We talk all the time about finding a way to you. Know get a products and services in front of clients and get them to choose them. But it's I find it. Kinda curious maybe to start asking those of us in the field you know winded. We willfully not choose a client. You know a service or product and I thought an APP is an interesting way to talk about that. Do you remember one that you downloaded and then you actually deleted it so it's funny in this actually ties back into rich dad poor dad but my husband and I. We bought a task La last year so excited to have it husband just fascinated with the print technology. It was very exciting to have and then we read rich at that and we sold it and that means that we deleted the entire car was controlled. Your APP Something that we We ended up getting rid of it. Was You know expensive? Investment for sure But no longer need the APP so that is not. My phone is so is the. I'm going to stick with this question. It's a good behavior in. Its good consumer science question but it's also just a good like emotional kind of question to says we're making these decisions and you know maybe. Tesla would like to have watched you delete it and make that decision cruciate. Well I want you to connect with Jocelyn and you can hear from here. What an expert she is and also just the. It's exciting to her. You know to be getting closer and closer to the humans that we're trying to study when we're looking at a consumer and behavior Research so Jocelyn Simon you can find her online and sees a senior. Vp like I said of nail biter. And that's all one word a L. B I t. e. r. For those of you who listen across the world. I am going to spell her name for you. It's Jocelyn J. O. C. E. L. Y. N. In her last name assignment. S I M O n make sure you connect with her on Lincoln. That's where I talked with her. Say Hi and feel free to ask our question but Jocelyn thank you so much for coming on ponderings from the perch and just enlightening us with just really some of this curiosity in the passion and the drive that you have for these video moments and the real in the moment the real behavior that's happening for the humans in this world. It was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. This was a ton of fun on combat. I had the opportunity to talk with you. So thank you again possum from all of us here at Little Bird Marketing and have a great day. Dan Happy Marketing.

NAILBITER Jocelyn Simon Jocelyn US partner Sack Louis Vuitton senior VP La Jocelyn J. O. C. E. L. Y. N. Gazelle global DOT Little Bird Marketing Google bill Howard Miki Facetime
086 - Rebecca Love is a Skinemax star who loves horror movies, video games, and podcasting

Unstructured

50:49 min | 2 years ago

086 - Rebecca Love is a Skinemax star who loves horror movies, video games, and podcasting

"On structure, happy Halloween. I'm recording a little bit of an intro because today's guest is a bit of a departure. Now, you know that I don't like to enter the guests before the guest comes on. But I am making an exception. In this case I wanted to warn everybody that there's a little bit of a dull language in here. Not too much, but some F bombs do get dropped. And we are talking about adult subject. Today's guest is Rebecca love a Rebecca love is famous for doing water finally known as a skin Amax movies. Those are the movies that involve a little bit of nudity little bit of sex late night on television. She's also a huge horror fan and actually her life was shaped by late night television with the schlocky horrors in this crazy skin Amax. She's a perfect treat for a holiday such as Halloween your past. She's been a stripper, and she is currently comedian, a gamer a podcast or. Adult theme shows and a gamer themed podcast called horror makes me happy fits writing. With the holiday. We get to learn some things like where does she feel more vulnerable on stage as a stripper or on stage doing comedy? How does she feel better profession? How does she start as a podcast and who are heard fluence? It may surprise you next show. We'll be back to normal. But I hope you guys enjoy Rebecca love he everybody today. We have a real treat a little bit ago. A really sin episode with Jocelyn stone Jocelyn stone has a show on the adult film star network. And she works for another lady net is Rebecca love today. We have Rebecca love. Hi there. I don't know if she I wouldn't say she works for me. We kinda like work together. She completes me. Okay. So you're cohorts. Yes. That's what we are co hosts and cohorts you guys work on each other show, right cohorts. Whatever you wanna call it. That's what we are. Sounds like a Jocelyn term right there. Yeah. We're partners on a lot of different things. Okay. Now, you have a history that is. More in line. I had to learn things from Jocelyn that she is more in defense while she does porn her primary thing is fed. Whereas you are more I guess on the porn site or the adult films 'cause I'm lazy fetish. Well, it's so intense, and there's mine fucking, and you have to mentally get to know someone and explore those adventures when it's straight to the point when it comes to pornography now on the note, though, I think you're most well known for is finally called skin Amax shows, which as a teenager a mini scene agers through the eighties ninety so late night television, primarily Cinemax and Showtime, and those aren't really full porn. Now. They're not full porn. It's softcore humping. The guy wears a sock, and I wear this patch over my my vagina, and we're just bumping ugliest. Okay. So now, you really have you done more of that than actual porn or do you just do both? I I did both at one point I filled in for some it couldn't show up, and I happen to live close in for since I showed up for that job. It just kind of snowballed into so many more with the skin Amax stuff with directors. They really enjoyed my work ethics and might cheesy acting so I can memorize dialogue. So it helped I was doing both at one point. And then I settled down this is like twelve years ago. I settled down and it was a compromise in our relationship. He could not handle a penis vagina so compromised where I didn't have lose my identity, and I could still be in the industry. I just couldn't do hardcore poured. Okay. Okay. Well, you probably. Got a lot of satisfaction out of it. You seem to really enjoy comedy here. Even doing stand up comedy. Hey, do I like to make people laugh and the skin Amax movies tended to be silly? I know you don't you? Don't take yourself seriously. And that's the best part. It was just so much fun being on those sets. Nobody thought they were this amazing Oscar winning actor. It was a nice community to be in will while. I was thinking about this interview. I was considering there. I'm like could you consider skater tone does spree? Yes. A new tone. Just breaking it in. Let's consider innomax movies to be dinner theater with babies at dinner theater. I don't know if there's much of a plot. It is so bad the movies are so bad, but they're like Colt movies. You know, you watch them because they're so bad. And you watch them to relieve pressure down there. I get it. And I and I'm okay with that. Because I understand what I'm doing. But I had so much fun doing it. And it just. It kept me relevant to there was more exposure with the skin Amax movies than just the hardcore that was on vivid in wicked. Sure. Well, you have a full IMDB page and present some no the skin. Amac stuff is all sag oriented. Correct. God now. No, those movies are that the budget is so low it's almost like having no budget. No, it's not union at all or sag. I think if you're in union, you can't even work for the companies that I worked for because they they go rogue on a lot of them. We should him in three days. And I'm telling you, it's sixteen hour days intense. What's interesting? So to continue on the camp line. You're also a huge fan of horror movies. Hello. Did you see my shirt? It's Friday yet. Okay. Is that your new podcast? The what is it makes me? Happy makes me happy is just an extension of my twitch platform. I have a stream team that I do twitch Tuesdays, and that channels dedicated to horror. So I'll take the audio out of roundtable discussion when my stream team on either sambas or we just started it. So it's it's just my guilty. Pleasure. I I love podcasting. And it's just one of my side things 'cause horror is my hobby. And that's what makes twitched channel is. And then I just took the audio from our discussion there in spliced it into a podcast because not everybody has time to. To watch a video or make them aware of the twitch channel. So they can come and join our community. Olympic sense and also podcast zeal to multitasking things. So they drive into work listening to it or anything else and you love for horror. I think I'm guessing that you love the heyday of horror like a Halloween Friday the thirteenth street the the stuff that I grew up with. Yeah. Keep going. Wet now. I'm actually I love. Spent a all those interestingly, though, the skin IMAX movies could be playing back to back with one of the horror films because yes, some of those movies are scary. Yeah. Clean in the timeslot is it's an interesting juxtaposition. If the if you think about a lot of your life could be watched overnight after ten o'clock pm June. I never thought about that. But you're absolutely right. The only thing left is doing an infomercial. Well, you might have done some of those do reads on your podcast, and yet we have sponsors here. And there while I have shake a, you know, I bought a lot of shit. I bought a lot of shit at three o'clock in the morning like shake way in an Admiral are and a God thinking, yes, this will solve my problem. Oh, it's a dust collector. I yeah. You know, my dying wish though is to be in a hormone me. So I don't care if I'm the Bimbo killed in the first scene. It's just my bucket list challenge. It should be a believe in their I'm guessing you have connection somewhere. I'm guests. If I went out there and and put the word out shore. Oh, I'm doing it. There you go. Speaking of which I think you were doing a movie or are doing a movie Frank in Stein. It's untidy right now because O H B O started at not leasing anymore of the skin Amax and all that. So I have that sitting on the side burner 'cause I don't wanna make something that can't be sold or just, you know distributed. So we're going to put that on the side burner or maybe we'll make animation. I don't know. 'cause animations pretty strong right now like, Rick and Morty family guy. I mean, there's so many American dad speaking of animation. That's voiceover. I talked to Jocelyn on the side. And I wanted till you too. Just a thought ahead. Current hot trend in podcast audio is audio drama. Have you thought about doing audio Roddick as a podcast? I'll I I gotta read pretty right? I'm a horrible reader. I know, but you could gripped it in where to tell a play as true you're talking about like old school back in the day. Where people listen to the radio like watching TV that concept. Yeah. No. That sounds beautiful. But I have read I just read four Magawam gonna get his name wrong. Christopher I wanna say client Christopher Klein, and it was a short horror story. I had to do so many do-overs 'cause I recorded a my end. So he has no idea I was just getting frustrated with five pages of dialogue. And I'm just like oh my God. Can I not I just for some reason my head at once come out one way when I know I need to like say the sentence this way, maybe because you're used to memorizing lines versus reading lines. It was a struggle. A true struggle. Okay. Well, but I like this. I like talking to you right now, I'm the fly. Well, that's cool. And I mean, obviously, if it's not comfortable, it's not going to be a high priority. Now, your path was I think you said that your way Tra or you went from college to waiting to performing do you undiscovered out? Well, I was a waitress my mom owned a diner very longtime ago, and then oh, wages cocktail wages. Sorry. I'm like where the fuck was a waitress. All I could think was I was in. I was an elementary. Yeah. I was cocktail waitress, and then I saw a future one night on stage. Well, I was cocktail wages. I snowballed to the stripper because that makes a lot more money, and then I saw future. And I'm like, how do you do that? And then I, you know, I don't want you see. What do you mean a headliner at a strip club? It's a person that usually does movies or wins a lot of different contests. So they're well known around the around the United States, or now that we have the internet could just be internet based and basically can draw crowd in. So they're the headliner and they come in three or four days like from Thursday to Sunday performing special almost like showgirls style shows with elaborate, costumes, I saw that. And I was like, you know, what I wouldn't mind doing that. So to do that you had to get infamous. So I set up a there's a lull in the middle. There's like a two year low because I had a child, and then I went out to LA, and I booked an interview with playboy and hustler and then Larry Flint took me. And I before I was in Florida. I was in Florida than I. I went to Houston for a little bit. And then I moved out to LA thinking I had to live out there to prove, you know, work in that industry because that's where all the jobs were. And there was great opportunities because I would've never got the skin Amax if I didn't live down the road. And then it just kept steroid stereotypical. It just kept on going down that that progression. And then I eventually featured in that work. You know longer feature cry. No, I I don't it just kind of fizzled out. I don't know something happened to my age it, and it fizzled out, and I was making more money webcam camping and staying home, and it could be with my family. So I kind of shows that over going out on the road, you know, three weeks out of the month than just staying home and being domesticated. We'll make sense one thing that I find Roenick is a feature in stripping them as the reverse of a feature in comedy as in. Yeah, you're right because the features the middle act. Right and a feature. But if each are is a headliner in in strip world, right? So it's kinda reverse because the fee, you're right. I never thought about it never thought about it like that. But it's it's funny. I talked to comedians on my. Yeah, I've had line at a strip club. And that's one question. I actually had for you. And I'm going to jump back your history to but you've done both stand up and you've done stripping personally think they're very similar, and I'm curious as to which one has made you feel truly more vulnerable. And or exposed stand up Dont'a. I it is so much easier. Take your clothes off and feel the music than it is to recite words back to the audience in do the dance because that is a gift and a rhythm in such a structured world that who you have to it's science up there. It's science, and it's truly hard, and you're bearing your soul and your words have to mean, something and you have to cut off that fat just feeling the music and taking off your clothes. My God, you know, that came easy, but bearing your soul up there with words. That hurts. I thought them might be the case I wonder too, if it seems ironic, but you're in more of a place of power stripping. I think so I think so son about movies man, they make people happy. So either way I'm still like making people happy. I'm just trying to keep my clothes on injust made that will make a lot of people happy. At least at home. I'm getting older. Now, you don't wanna see this shit dropped that is a concern to like porn and stripping things. Like that for beautiful women. Do you consider it to be kind of a trap because in many ways it is easy money on? I don't think it's a trap. I think has a short shelf life, but you can take that opportunity in education and be behind the camera and do other things there's other facets off the entertainment industry. So you don't have to be in front of the camera. You just gotta find more skill. So on your road of being pretty or or all that maintenance to make you look a certain way, you need to advance your skills and pick. Everybody's brain get to know the crew get to know the director, see if you can pay for them. So you can learn that job. Just I love learning. I love figure. Things out because I know it's inevitable change. And it's going to happen is this why you enjoy or so tight. I just loved that bitch Mia. She is so amazing like I just wanna marry her. Well, they're just trying to marry she completes me. She's everything. I've never slept with the bitch. But I love her so much. She's we just work because she described doing really describe doing everything said being a PA holding the camera down underneath when women are out to get off. And and offering to work and do things for free on the set being the person to go pick up a performer at the airport because I can drive a car and things like that it. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Yet. But I just yeah. Dammit, Jocelyn you stole it you still at you were there. I I actually stole it. My bad. But yeah. And I love technology, and technology changes so fast. So I've just learned to evolve I've heard I think you mentioned that you are doing Kim work in the late nineties or something when the buffer rate was twenty five frames per minute. So. Sorry. I forgot we're back casting at him. Like, we're on video at the same time. I was just showing them what it's like in twenty five frames per minute. Excruciating. It was like a foot almost like a flip book, but a fled after it rains money back then it rained money. Now, what what are some of these revenue streams because I find that fascinating. And you seem to be one who's really always looking for the next car to get on. That is so me, I always am. I'm trying to see what the next best thing is and try to get there right before it peaks. So I can enjoy the high when it rains because I was there in the late nineties and early two thousands. When the internet was exploding. I remember age verification. I was charging people a dollar just to make everybody charge dollar to see minute es, and and that just sitting back into an age verification. I was making five grand a month. So I know it was just mad. So we try to find the next best thing and ride that train. I do webcam phone. Yeah. Phone phone sex still around people. Some people are intimidated by the webcam, so and it's convenient because you don't have to be makeup ready do have to have a vivid imagination, but you can take it anywhere. I can't always be acceptable on Cam. What else is there? There's a have to look I have my store my site. I take pictures, I do Snapchat premium only fans, I mean, all these eggs add up to a nice piece of pie at the end of the month. I think fascinating than you are very happy to look for the next thing. And you seem to be genuinely delighted to find the next thing. Like, it's the discovery process. I do it because I get bored fast. And I I don't know if I have ADD, but I'm gonna claim it. All right. I'm just like, squirrel. I just want the next thing. I wish I could just and I have with podcasting where I just focus in on one thing and try to get really good at it. But the problem is something over here is moving, and then I turn my head and onto the next thing. But podcasting has I have stayed focused because they do absolutely love it now comedy on the other hand. I love writing. I love participating online with certain communities. I fucking hey, standing up there on that stage. Hate it I- Drennan or more of a writer than I didn't know as a writer. But yeah, I find it vary. A it's my then I mean, there are stand up performers in their comedic writers, and some of the most brilliant comic minds or in the writers. Why thank you. I wish I could be oh my gosh. I wish I could be in the writer's room and sit around the table. That's where the money is too. But I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. I might never be there. But I enjoy it. But going up on that stage. It's just such a process. I can do the dance. I can do the whole rhythm and all that choreograph structured, but I dread it a dreaded to a point where I'm just I can't wait to get off sage and when I get off stage IV such an adrenaline rush. And I'm just so ready to go, socialize how about hosting? Do you feel the same way? They're hosting different base. State doesn't bother me because I feel like I'm with the people like I don't have to even though it's still structured, but it's a it's a different beast. It's I'm the ringmaster. Now, I can you know, play with the audience is there any anniversaries birthdays and just go off the fly. But I know it's easier to be a feature washingto- easier. I you'll only have to show up and you do your set, and then you're done and an MC I think is a lot harder because. They have to there's a science to the audience, and if somebody just bombed you gotta bring that audience back to zero or your next performer, or if somebody is really good within you gotta get the other person out on stage. There's a dance to that too. But the seams with your mindset that may be you'd be suited for that. Because there's there's mechanics ally that and you seem to be very very focused on on behind the scenes and the structure you said structure six times in the unstructured blood test. I think every time they say sure people you have to drink. It's a rule now. So I I find that fascinating. Because I think that you are a very mentally into behind the scenes and facilitating the creation of it like you might be a great event creator or coordinator. I believe you even run one with a triplex on karaoke right idea. That one's not as. It's a hot mess, but it has a little structure. See right there. Grabby drinks, grab your drinks. It's a little bit organized. It's super simple. I just have to put the ads out. We have a guest of honor at midnight. We do giveaways, but there's nothing it. It's not a show. It's an adult industry networking, but they're still point eight. I'm trying to avoid that word. I think it's great because we're we're finding things out in to me the best shows are if there's something that we can discover about ourselves or where you at their psychologist. A bartender. No, no. I sample the goods exactly what you're jinking toys. Unfortunately, right now, it's PA's and Leili. It's got that after taste. I can't runner. And I hated them always can stand them. And for some reason one day I had one after a really hard run when I was really peak training, I draw eight pounds in a run. Oh, and I hit the IP in tasted like lemonade on the hottest day you've ever had. And it just this mixed suddenly clicked in my brain. And that was the worst thing that ever could have because beer is very fattening. But I'm a beer drinker myself. So I get it. My favorite is two hundred fifty calories of bottle. Ooh. Yes. The betcha it tastes great. It does at dogs and you'll love the name. That's raging bitch raging beds. Damn that's probably like joslin essence in it. That's why you like it though. There you go. There you go. Oh my goodness. No. Since podcast almost seems to be your I'm going to say anchor. But maybe maybe that's your most stable platform and everything else is kind of launching off of it or somehow tied to it. What what brought you into it. How'd you discover it? I did radio back in two thousand two or three I filled in for somebody believe it or not Cindy Crawford. The porn star. Not be. Yeah. And the thing as she could use that name because it was really her name. So desist letter did not work on porn-star. Cindy crawford. So I started filling in for her at K, sex radio and wanka STS. He ran the show, and I was the co host, and I absolutely loved it. I didn't get paid a lot. But it was something. I really enjoyed. We had a lot. We have lots of fun. There was also video I was probably blurry back in that day 'cause it was the early two thousand and we had a live chat room, and it was very interactive. And it was to our show that I did for about four or five years, and then that business fell apart when they sold it. I I was lost for a couple years because it wasn't around. Didn't. I started using now live. It was a broadcasting software online, China, you're out that and then I think that went away to it that didn't work then Katie Morgan needed a co host, and she was podcasting and Lang podcasting. Okay. So I went in and we did a a weekly show. And when was this was two thousand eleven two thousand twelve. Yeah. And it was. Ving sex Kate, Katie Morgan. So I was like, oh, this podcasting things. Pretty neat. Will then she stopped doing her show. And I was like all right. You know, what I'm just gonna learn about podcasting and see if I could do it, and it was trying to bring it back to the case ex days. And then I realized we'll that's bad. That's prehistoric. That's not gonna work. Once I started learning about podcasting. And then it was all this technology based and I just got in there, and I just ate it up because I loved learning about it. And I loved why this were to NIST it in and how you should have your quit -ment and what to use at that time. It was up in the air about what servers to use like Lipson or pod bean, and and they told you to put it on feed burner just in case. So I was like back in that part. Ohio PR forty four hundred dollar, right? I know your sources. Are you talking about gosh, I started with what was his name? I don't listen to him anymore. But with raisins. Cliff raven cliff ravens craft and then I started listened to Dave on podcast as school podcasting or just interviewed Dave a couple of weeks ago out at tipped everyone. Check out the Dave Jackson interview said there you go. I started listening to him. And they kinda like I knew who day was talking about when he was picking on. Yeah. Cliff? So I was going back and forth, and it was taking nuggets from him and then taking nuggets from class, and and putting it all together. And then I would look online for other things to learn. But I enjoy you've took out at now for than six seven years new ice started at two thousand fourteen or maybe two thousand thirteen so Katie to. Oh, yeah. We Katie my bad. I wasn't thinking about Katie. I thought you meant learning it. I just had to show up, Katie. Yeah. Yes. Six years into podcasting. What would have you? What have you learned? Or what are your thoughts on the podcast industry because I'm starting to really try to drag the out of different podcasters, especially the Dave Jackson's James Cridland who've I've had on what they see as the industry how it is growing your thoughts. It's not going away because you can multitask with the podcast the thing with YouTube in all is you have to watch the video a lot of times when I'm learning programs. The video helps the visual does. But with a podcast, I can be commuting their free. Some people do make money with crowd sourcing like patriot and have sponsors and stuff and people listen to the commercials because it helps us podcasters with our equipment with giving you our time and putting these shows together because it's not just an hour or two. It's it takes a whole. Week to put a really good show together at sometimes I even have titles of future shows for later on that I'm just thinking of but you can listen to them anywhere for free. You don't have to pay. In fact, I haven't listened to my radio. I don't know. And it when my radio got stolen. I just never bought another one. I just listened to my podcast not mine. Personally. I listened to tons of other ones. And I'm not that air again. Anyway, I grasp Jesus sorry. My bad. I my radio got stolen. So I didn't listen to it. My daughter bought me a radio for Christmas. I still don't listen. But the good thing, it's bluetooth. So now, I can hear it throughout the car. And I just don't know how radio stations are going to survive or satellite. True phone that. I can't stand listening to radio in Moore's not only that. I don't it physically annoys me. Oh god. You got another commercial of God, you get another call back. Yes. I know that we've been listening that we're talking to such such guest. I'm in here for twenty minutes. Yeah. We're all with Bubba. Why? Because people are just tuning in all the time with podcast, you know, you don't have to call backs. You don't have to check. It's you don't have to say what time it is or it cetera. The interrupts because most people who listen start at point A and the end point be. He has good thing about podcasts. You can stop to income right back to where he left off the radio, you might miss it. Because you have to do something then you often do or something happens or you're the drive through and they get the order. Register whatever it's going real time. And there's no going back now in podcasts are magical for that if very magical, and I enjoy them say learn a lot from them so early on who are some of your podcast in rape grove, right? Those two of one let me just I still have the ones Rick Roberts school of hold on. Let me just open them up 'cause I'm horrible with titles. We went over this earlier right with names. Let me just open it where the hell is my body gas. Stop there. Rick Roberts school of laughs that trains you in the comedy world, the business and all I listen to hot breath once in awhile, I listen to a lot like stream key, which is learning about twitch because I twitch on Tuesdays. So I just wanna be up to date on that. I love the identity. I know he's going through a struggle right now. He was my roommate Adam on coast movement. Tell Becca listens to him. Sorry about his relationship. Daniels daniels. Really good guy. He inducted Dave Jackson into the hall of fame while we are there. So I watched them do that. Yeah. I I enjoy I actually I enjoyed him over cliff, and Dave, Dave. But I I really enjoyed the data one. It's funny. I would agree with you on that. But I didn't I actually me. It took me like three or four shows to realize I kinda like this guy better. Yeah. He's got a vocal tone. That's different. And it isn't something normally suited to. But then I sorta got used to it. And then I liked the show actually better than the other ones. Well, I like the nuggets that come from it I like the nuggets. So if you give me really good information, I'll keep listening. But you're right. It does have to do with the voice lot of times. And it's nothing against them. It's just it's what you're in tune to and one of my new favorites said Jocelyn stone turned me onto and I can't stop listening to it is gosh, why does structure, of course. No. Cast. Oh my God. You how did you know that you know, Eric? I hard on. Gosh. Not. No. That's why isn't it. Oh, sorry. I'm not trying to play. I'm trying to go to handle on the law, and basically he takes like three minute calls, and he's just you. I listen to some of your show, and I think she was going on about him. So I started saying the most. Abrasive lawyer out there. He's like judge Judy. And I listened to these. But you're learning a lot too. But he has a lot of sarcasm when I know how to read him now where you might think it's true. But it's not, but yeah, I enjoyed him on the plane flight. So that's cool. It's that's one of those that I think that having a distinct voice or method is a way to stand out. It was his method. Yeah. It was definitely as method. And so now you because you look, but your voice your voice is very hypnotic. Very calm. And I feel like I'm meditating right now. Okay. Good at phone sags. Just oh fall asleep to. Attic. It's just it's a trans. Speaking of actually, speaking of anything. It's a subject change quick diversion. In public, and when you're running events, I'm always wondering about certain things like you had mentioned any event that you are doing Jocelyn, and you guys were talking about you had to be really circumspect in how you were describing things, and I could hear your tone actually change while you're saying, I gotta be, you know, while you were thinking, I'm assuming be careful here because they're very real security concerns. Let creeps out there. Oh, like, stockers and stuff you or we're people potentially. Sure. But that could you could be weird people anywhere any job. I don't know. I mean, I've had people that are persistent and they get our. They mix it up between fan, and friend, and I've had that happen. But usually I nip it in the bud. I haven't had anything to scary. I I've heard horror stories from other people. I'm my mouth is pretty abrasive. Not as not like Jocelyn stones. But. I I don't give them that fantasy that we could be dating because I'm pretty blunt that I am in a relationship because I'm afraid if I even though a broke the fantasy for Rebecca love, I have to because if you might think you have a chance, and they don't want you to think that sure, but I like to indulge in the fantasies. I like to play once cool, and it's one of you say that none of brace of Johnson's, don't maybe I'm wired weird. But I find it amusing. I don't think of either of us abrasive at all. You might be pushing playing. I'm sorry. It's like it being abrasive. Take that away straddling. She's gonna take you a ride. She has no filter like I- pussyfoot around it and make sure everything's heart and rainbows and your glitter. And but her she comes in like earth salon in little mermaid and just boom. Now public of I'm curious about one thing. I'm sure that you get recognized in public. Okay. What I'm curious has there ever been a time that you're recognized in public by shall we say a male part of a couple, and you could tell that you recognized in public by the male part but east actively trying to not recognize you. I'm a belived. I'm oblivious to those situations like I I live in a bubble. But there was this one time I was at the bar with my parents. And I I think we just ordered around or whatever. And and this guy that grew up in my hometown comes over and he sits. Did he say, yeah, he sat on my mom's lab like he wasn't all the way on her. But Sarah, do you know, I have seen your daughter naked. And I am just thank God. I told my parents, right. So they already got filled. And and I'm just like, I am so sorry mom, and he was just wasted in drunk. And he he we grew up together. I didn't know him that. Well, but at the same time, I guess my parents knew better than I did, and my parents just blew it off. But yeah that happen or and then at the airport in somebody's came up to me, and they actually taught me on the shoulder. And was like are you Rebecca love like? Yes. Sh- don't tell anyone, you know. Because I know what everybody. Nobody dirtiness my shame. So at that. It's happened a few times the red hair. Oh, there's another one. Now that we're on there. I was gambling at red rock, and I have really bright red hair, especially when it's straight out of the box that day, and we were we were playing blackjack or no not blackjack. I'm sorry. Like matters. We are playing we're gambling three card poker? And this guy comes over any recognize me. I guess the hair kinda bam. And it was during the peak of my career say comes goes, excuse me. Are you back love? Now, the whole table we've been gambling for an hour altogether. Right. I've been a voiding. What do you do for a living? I try to avoid that like the plague it's one of my pet peas when people gum. So what do you do for a living? Oh fuck. Well, literally, yes, I try to avoid that in say everything, but the actress part. So I'm like, yes, why signed his napkin, and then well, I stepped away from the table, and I signed his napkin, then he went away, but I came back to the table, and they were just like are you somebody famous, and I just like maybe infamous famous now and who are young. I do those B movies that you see on lake late night. I didn't wanna tell them. I take Pena's than my vagina haven't done anal yet. But I'm looking into it. I I didn't wanna do that. I I can be uncomfortable comfortable for people. But I could see the husband's looking at me gone. She's talking about exotic stuff she Roddick. Rata? I know it I did notice those looks. Them extents. Yeah. This to me the skin amac. So probably was in a way great to have because you could direct that was the level. I don't think anybody should have to be embarrassed by doing whatever they do people work for living. They just went through that with the Cosby actor, Gregory forgot his name. They saw him at trader Joe's. He was on Cosby show at somebody so much. Trader Joe's the cashier, and there they took pictures of only look at this. He was on the Cosby show. No, he's, you know, bagging groceries at trader Joe's. And fortunately the backlash. So he has a job is that what you're saying? Good him. Exactly. And fortunately, the backlash went against the people who are trying to shame him trolls. Yeah. His work house one form of work better or more honorable than another former work out, there you very noble. To be a cashier after you've had one of those jobs where you can lose sight and think your your special and all that. So I I applaud him for that. I'm never barest about what I do. I'm more. I don't wanna put normies in an uncomfortable situation. Okay. Or let alone defend myself 'cause this mama bear bites. And I tell you like when my aunt found out that I did porn and all that. She's like did your boyfriend make you do it. I'm like, are you kidding me? No, I told him I was going to do it. And he had an option to stay or leave. It was my decision and it's hard. It was hard for my aunt to wrap her brain around that to pimped out was a camp easy with relationships. All the time, though, is it or was it it. It's a struggle. But there's a communication that you have to keep up. It's I'm gonna say on an individual basis every relationships different. So I can't tell somebody. It's gonna work because I don't know their dynamics I was wondering if you faced issues in the past with covert contracts, and by that I mean, you would meet somebody you think, oh, you know, we're talking having a good time or whatever. And in his mind, he's thinking, oh, I paid for drinks for you. For the pests release you're gonna sleep with me because while you do porn anyway, did you ever run into any of those type of situations where you didn't make any kind of contractors? And you're just all I'm doing this. I'm having a good time. But he has ideas and plans for you that you never knew you have well usually fuck on the first day anyway, so my bad, but I think it's harder to sleep with the porn star has a big fat. Check at the end of it to drinks are not gonna work now. Fire Gucci purrs. I'm gonna say you're getting. Laid. Yeah. Porn stars. Don't think that way. In fact, their job is to have sex. That's probably the last thing they're thinking about unless they're nymphomaniac. And then more power to help you survive and get the shirt from what I've read and seen and Mitch and Johnson to to me, the I would never want to be on a porn set. Yes. Boring excruciating thing in the world to see how the sausage don't wanna now. I mean definite appointed it. Well, we make the sausage. It's so boring to lose its glamour the sparkle because it is very clinical. When you're on that set, it's a business and its ran as such. I'm sure that your spend half your time cramp in a weird position. Because the cameras got to be one way or another and for the guy. I could I could never imagine them. He to route. But how in the hell would you keep it up through? I hell all the. Some girls didn't help in between cuts and stuff you are on your own. And you just jerk it off over in the corner. But I would stay there and be like all right? What do you like because we're going to keep this shit go? And because as soon as they get those cameras readjusted, and we're onto f p two which is fuck position to. I. Because think about it. You don't want to be there all day. So let's get that seen go. And and I don't wanna break bake break the chemistry because I'm enjoying myself. I want it to go work day. Plus the recommend you for other jobs. It's a great calling card. Oh, okay. To call back Jocelyn. I know that she works at that too. Because they're like each other spirit animal, right? We are. I told you I think by a certain age if we're both not married. I think we're just gonna go to the chapel it could be drive through. I don't care on the coach may have you both on says like shoot, and I spoil this or not. But just to be careful or get it out there. How did you guys meet their mutual friend kid dynamite? Kid dynamite. Kept on trying to introduce us. She was his porn mom. So he would go to her whenever you had problems and she'd help amounts situation. And now, we're just a tight unit family. She he kept on trying to get us together. We whenever we just never then I needed a guest. I didn't have a co host for this one place. There was there was another place that I was right after the podcast thing of Katie. There was this two month spurts at this other place that was looking for a radio host. So I need a code. They want me to run my own show. So I need a co host she actually filled in 'cause my guest didn't show up. And then you know, how it just hits you that? This is my missing piece because she would have so much information in different perspective said agreeing with me, she would go. Oh, no think of it this way. And it was it was it was not a no. But but it was still a yes. And built off of it. But she educated may push. She's a dominatrix here. We got don't film starring dominatrix, and I'm not thinking at that level. So we answer a lot of each other's questions that we. Think the listener would be asking it was beautiful dynamic. I I found her and not gonna let that one go. Well, that's cool. I think with a two of us, but you know, it's like a one plus one equals three. Yeah. All right. I'll take it. Put that one in my pocket. So that's what happened in them. When I started doing the podcast, I was going to put her on a separate show. So we could have more shows on adult film star network. And again, co host don't show up. We started working together. I'm like fuck it. I'll be your co host. And you'd be might mine Cassuto such a neat situation before start wrapping things up worse adult film, star network going. What's coming up? I well, that's where we put Egede Kate educational educational. Adult industry sexuality podcast like she teaches about fetish. I teach about the adult industry. We have another one porn coffee on that network that teaches. Interviews is more interview based about company owners and they pick their brains. So it's a very education educational place to go. If you're trying to learn about the industry or the community awesome. So that's the business end outbreak in then how to get things in. You're seeing how to live the lifestyle or how to deal situations as they come up. Yep. That's exactly at. That's what we do. And it's just fun. There's a lot of comedy involved. It just happens naturally naturally. But their structure, and you'll get a lot of nuggets out of it. Structure. Drank everybody drank and what's coming up next. Rebecca love. Only God agai Jocelyn. I are gonna put together a comedy show here in Las Vegas. But that's all I can tell you right now or have to kill you. 'cause we are just laying out the format noise. I'm very excited about that. Because I do like producing local them that gives everybody a reason to start following you, and where can they find? If they're not falling me by now. Shame on, you know, I'm just kidding. Who the fuck is that bitch? Rebekka love everywhere. Everywhere. We you could find me I'm on the first page, Google, just look up Rebecca love you. Can't miss me. Okay. What's your favorite platform on the Twitter Facebook? What did you say the Twitter? Did you say that? I'm not old I'm old view. But. I'm sure we're in the same age back it we're in there. The my favorite platform. Probably Twitter Twitter everybody at least vol her on Twitter, and you will be Rebecca left triple Exxon Twitter, and you'll be educated edge gate, this white trash horror will educate you. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for let me listening to your voice. Eric. No, tonight's adventure into the unknown. Shut. And since. It's SARS and frenzy from the SARS proof podcast. If you're familiar the podcast has a guest every episode treat people like actors comedians, author viable exports authors, martial arts experts, basically, a whole gamut of bad as people. Yes. You could check out all episodes on all the podcast, but arms IT's spreaker, Fisher, Google play music. Iheart radio. Yeah. Chickasaw on all this media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all the things so at such a free. Yep. Check it out early. Hope you joy it by later fuckers.

Rebecca love Jocelyn Katie Morgan nuggets Dave Jackson Rick Roberts Twitter Amax Jocelyn stone Jocelyn stone director Roddick Eric Oscar LA Cinemax SARS Google writer
The Payoff When Customers are the Center of Everything for Marketing and Sales

OC Talk Radio

22:57 min | 1 year ago

The Payoff When Customers are the Center of Everything for Marketing and Sales

"I welcome once again I wish I had this a few years ago I've been running sales and marketing several different companies Jocelyn welcome thank you for having me we've heard a lot from pundits in the past the customer should be the center of everything for marketing and sales yeah absolutely I mean I can really go to the founding story to really get there in that allocated was ended via marketer who really went to solve her own problem and that has meant that the customer almost leads the company in not management it probably starts here with the S. l. m. a radio show and the man who has put it all together keeps it alive and growing all the really did go to to solve our own problems so marketers have this amazing responsibility for growth in a company and they have this amazing sort of accountable today but before we start that I think it's important that people understand more about allocating other than what I just said in the introduction can you give us a couple rundown of what the company does and why it's important to marketers today also how it pertains to this art and science of Customer Loyalty Ornaments Management that enables workers to plant strategically invest with purpose measure the performance sober activities and ultimately maximize marketing impact on sales accessibility Arabia when they can listen to it anytime that they feel like isn't that great isn't social media wonder why I appreciate that you have your device in the room there and also fall yes I am did it was a great program I raised up to Joson talk more about this issue of the customer being the center of everything so there's and revenue she oversees sales and customer success teams at our kids allocate is a marketing platform recognized leader in Marketing Equipmet this eleven years we've had five hundred twenty eight episodes in twelve thousand six hundred and six listeners in this week the show is also available through two years at the customer is why you're in business at low and why they're important what we should do about everybody wants to tell us what we should do about it now you agree I'm doing their job but they don't really have the tools to do it they've really been kind of left out of really being able to have the tools to run their business around the amount of investment amount of money that they're spending to get this done and what they're being held accountable for the the kind of measurement that's responsible for yeah exactly exactly there's a world outside of just the CRM system and marketing becoming an insanely complex job with tons of specialization and regular show we could say I'm always excited about all the shows but Jocelyn Brown comes doing this I listen to her on sales pipeline radio when she did Osho there the art science mission and how the customer really ends up at the center of that is that we believe so strongly that those marketers have an important job and we WANNA make sure they can do it you have every tool to be really confident about how they're investing how they're supporting the company's growth and what they should be doing next we need to make sure that they really have all the information available to discuss this today but you're gonNA take a lot further just a concept for more than idea that that passes a quickly at a conference keynote when somebody stands up and so oh company goals making sure they're always spending in the right way to actually grow that company and then they need to be able to optimize it's not a static Kinda function title where program today is the payoff when customers of the center of everything for marketing and Sales Jocelyn Brown is the senior vice president custom Dean Stewart went to go and solve it so right from the beginning if you're very fortunate coming in as a customer leader sort of later in the in the game of this more that they can make those big bats big decisions to actually fulfil that growth mandate that they've been given something besides the crm system. Yeah I'm not wearing is a special Reagan had today so I don't know maybe he's not feeling over mere hey jim you're actually doing stuff every day that probably involves a change in the way that you're executing your marketing and aligning with maybe what your sales strategy is so we really WanNa make sure that they half we're about one hundred twenty people pretty good very good the question is how do we get beyond the pablum sitting at conferences and started talking to you a minute minute you said her name did you hear that the background yeah EXAC CLINT IT AK say way I'm excited today about this so just to get everybody talking the same language and doing the same stuff is seat unto itself so we're really there to help that CMO marketing leadership lands with those goals then actually managed investment with real purpose make sure they're spending every dollar and the best and most efficient and effective way possible against the real I need that it was already really there they built the product for the customer they listen to the customer everything they're doing is in service of the customer and they re he said we have the run marketing platform and it really is about making sure that marketers have the right tool set to be able to plan well in a line sort of the the best and most efficient and effective way possible not really comes right from the very beginning of the company where somebody who had that problem being our CEO quits it's of customer loyalty community advocacy and more than she was on there with Matt Heinz all year so go invert we added that show your his side look at customer is the center of everything so they don't tell you how to do it they don't tell you how you ingrain this is a philosophy and how you change the culture of your company and you're going to help the student can highlight this amazing journey that you've partnered with this person to go on that's memorable and that's not just memorable to the outside of your company itself anybody who has an Alexa APP simply has to choose he'll go up in the APP chooses skill and Games search for US elevate and go ahead and choose so there needs to be a unifying place the great thing about sort of marketing and not go to market motion of failing is that nothing is better no point in having a company if you can't serve somebody so really what we're doing is trying to make sure we're serving that audience those marketers in the best way that we is a real culture piece and I do think it largely comes from the top companies are complex ecosystems everybody's got their role to play for that than a story than a really good story and there's no better story than one that has a hero so if you really start looking at your opportunity get everybody run in the same direction and then give every individual market a real confidence in what they're doing and that they're doing the right thing all the time and for us that's a real find accomplishing goals if you're always telling customer stories if you're always grounding the thing that you're trying to do around achieving the really no or we really know and understand that customer and an immense amount of empathy and for me that's such a gift and also just a bit obvious there's sort of we can and that's not just our tool that's also the way we organize around them that's the way we talk to them that's the way we help them in their careers how many people does the company me too when you're actually selling to new folks otherwise it's memorable inside your company so to help you have a common language to help you align around what you're doing the center of everything for sales and marketing culture change what is how do you do it how does somebody take it and make a reality yeah I do get into actual integration this attitude in crispy will talked about this in a brand new podcast that he's got on Wednesdays are channels oh come or solving the problem that your customer has it means that everybody's got that in mind when they're doing it and it gives you a language very much want anybody in our company to feel a personal relationship with our customers to know them as best we can and that's everything I'm from the data that's available to them to the way we have company meetings and highlight them just to the way that we operate and talk about as you drive your go to market motions to drive the growth of your company as being dependent on having not amazing story that you can tell that others can relate to and the problems we're trying to solve there's lots of different strategies for that but it really starts with the intent that we are all here to serve and to serve that the customer and so we have to know them and we have to be able to understand what they're trying to accomplish and then everything we do has to be about driving towards what you're describing is something that either needs to be done or the sort of supporting material needs to be there because those Catherine and Christine had been working in marketing and and knowing those people in those problems it just everything they did it all started there and being startup you're really reliant on those interesting so which one of them when she hired people stood up and look these people in the face and gathered together road and said I don't know if you know why you're here bye bye okay let's dig at the market so they get millions of dollars the higher people they go to market nobody wants to buy this kind of comes back to how do you make the customer a company in our tool always leads with the story of how it was founded and those companies and those people really even that took early that's customer service the phone radio channel then he talked about also how people just create in a vacuum create oh some of the product and they get five on his own way that it will help a customer just doesn't really resonate it is about the team you build around you you do have to have it front and center of your values always present in our narrative but then absolutely you have to hire people that believe that and I think at this point our company almost kind of as an organiser Oh a two and marketing you're here to communicated and if you all are on board in this everybody from customer service on down if you're not on board quit lead this show people that take a bet on you so you stay close to them if you're smart you need to continue to invest in the relationship you have with especially those early the goal will you got a twin leadership companies are don't you this is very unusual Christine and Catherine very more Jackson those that don't 'cause you'd have a hard time really getting everybody to rally around you if they can't understand what you're trying to do this and if you can't articulated in the folks that take a gamble on you and they've really just never lost that mentality so there's a little bit of leading by example in the way that they talk about is that they serve there's certainly lots of strategies have to come from the top but it does grow organically if if you repeat it if you put it at the center of your values and Mer inside the company as much as you possibly can both for the customer so that they're getting what they need but also for the teens to really be able to have a relationship with who it is men if you operationalize it I want everybody to know our customers so I make as much data out feelable about them as a can where are they on their journey what are they trying to accomplish is the internal people we look at the whole kind of ecosystem of people that sat make our companies successful

Jocelyn Reagan eleven years two years
Jocelyn K. Glei: Letting Go Isnt Easy

Hurry Slowly

20:02 min | 1 year ago

Jocelyn K. Glei: Letting Go Isnt Easy

"This episode is brought to you by harvest. Harvest is a simple and intuitive time tracking tool. That helps you end your team. Hold yourself accountable onto your biggest priorities. Harvest makes it easy for teams to see how they're spending their time so that they can keep their projects on track get paid faster and and us every hour in the day more effectively to make the most of your time visit get harvest dot com slash. Hurry slowly early to start a free trial today and get fifty percent off your first month. That's get harvest dot com slash. Hurry slowly for fifty percent off off I'm Jocelyn K. Glide and this is hurry slowly a podcast about pacing yourself right explore how you can find more comfort and clarity through the simple act of slowing down. If you're dedicated listener you'll perhaps already noted that I just changed the way I describe the show most notably removing the word productivity from the tagline line at the top and this season actually opens with a bit of confession. But how I'm changing about how the show is changing. And why I've always been a strong believer in pulling back the curtain to show the inner workings of how stuff gets made because personally I always find it deeply comforting to know the people who are making cool stuff that dig or screwing things up a wrestling with demons and doubting themselves so today. I'm starting this new new season with a bit of a back story on how I got here in hopes that sharing my weird imperfect idiosyncratic journey will be of some help to you on yours. Now if you read my newsletter you'll know that as of the end of last season the future of this podcast was unclear. I knew I didn't want to continue talking about the same topics in the same way but I wasn't sure what the way forward was numerous conversations last season including those with Debbie Millman Rob Walker and Jenny Odell touched on the relatively new phenomenon of the personal brand. This idea that we have to create a stable persona that stands for certain things in this world fueled by personal websites freelancers looking to stand out and social media NIA personas looking to build a following and once that persona is created our primary job is to feed and maintain it and much of the talk in these conversations. I just mentioned was about how constraining even deadening this phenomenon. Is this idea that we somehow have to maintain our personal brand hand so it seemed ironic that by the end of season. Two of hurry slowly. I was finding myself in the position of having created a personal brand. That now felt constraining. I didn't continue doing the same things for another season. And it felt sad to abandon something that I've worked so hard to create but I also wasn't sure if the podcast could morph and change and expand to encompass something new. I wasn't even sure what that something new would be. But after about four or five months of reflection I've decided that there is more room for expansion but before we tell you about that. I have to rewind and give you some context. This podcast originally arose from and has since carried me through a very transformative period in my life. One that is still unfolding as as we speak. If your regular listener you may recall me talking about a rather dramatic accident. I had in July of twenty seventeen just as I was pulling the first episodes sewed of this podcast together. I was attending a music. Show my friends gallery space and after taking a small hit off of a vaporizer that yes contain gene marijuana. I felt suddenly lightheaded and I passed out unfortunately chose a very bad location to pass out and ended up splitting open my Chin and rearranging quite a few of my teeth. I look perfectly fine now but it took many stitches a lot of visits to an oral surgeon and three root canals to get everything anything fixed up. This was the beginning of my midlife crisis now. I'm sure you've heard the term midlife crisis before but what you may or may not know. Oh is that it refers to a very specific astrological moment which happens for about two to three years to everyone in their early forties side note. I'm really into astrology. Part of my season three brief is to stop hiding these aspects of myself but more on that in a moment so anyway because I'm into astrology legit. I knew that my midlife crisis on the horizon and I was actually looking forward to it. There were a lot of things I felt. I wanted to change in my life and this once in a lifetime time to to three year window seemed like the time to do it. We usually think of the word crisis is being negative and it certainly can be but it's usually also so the prelude to arriving at a major turning point and unfortunately you don't get to that turning point without the crisis so here. I was excited for my midlife crisis and picturing it as this sort of portal two dramatic transformation that I would get to step into for two or three years and I knew that it was supposed to begin in July two thousand seventeen and then one week into July. I had this dramatic accident where I fell on my face since then the running joke with my brother her has become that I tripped on my way into the portal. So now I've been walking through this portal for a little over two years and making some fairly major changes in my life. And if you've been listening to this podcast for awhile you've heard some my reflections along the way and I should add here that I've really appreciated your support when I wrote about the the future of this podcast being uncertain many of you took it upon yourselves to write me very kind and thoughtful notes of support though thank you. It's such a comfort to know that someone honest listening out there but anyway the funny thing about change and actively pursuing it which. I'm sure you know already. Is that it never unfolds quite like you think it. Will you get on the roller coaster ride by which I mean. You quit your job or you go through a break-up or maybe just go on an extended meditation retreat and you think you know how things are going to turn out but at some point the roller coaster zooms around a band and goes into a dark tunnel and all of the sudden things start to turn turn out a little different than you expected not necessarily in a bad way just different. I've always been an incredibly achievement oriented ED person so it might not be surprising to learn that. I thought that my roller coaster ride through this little portable of transformation would result in me being able to accomplish something something. Something I had felt had been putting off for a good twenty years now when I was in college. I didn't MFA screenwriting program. And ever since I've had a vision Asian of an alternate universe where I'm writing scripts and making movies and I've written scripts since then and I've made an untold amount of notes for ideas and possible scripts ups when I originally wrote the first draft of this episode. I was sitting at my desk with a huge stack of mole. Skin journals behind me which contain these notes. They stretch all the way back to college college. I also have a close friend who directs films and we've literally been trying to make something together for almost ten years and a few months ago. I thought that moment had and finally arrived. I had finished creating and launching my new online course reset. I was taking a summer break from this podcast and I had planned a nineteen eighteen day retreat for myself where I wouldn't be on email the internet or anything else. Nothing was standing in my way. I felt I could finally do this thing. I've been and telling myself I wanted to do. For twenty years. I could see the outcome on the horizon and then my rollercoaster took a sharp turn into that dark tunnel that I mentioned earlier. Ultimately we go on journeys and make these big bold life changes. I think because we WANNA find. Find some kind of clarity. Maybe even a sense of wholeness. I think I started this podcast in some sense to find clarity around what makes a good life. And its technology technology addled speed obsessed world that we live in. I quit drinking my forty second birthday to find clarity and I went on this. Nineteen David treat by myself off to find clarity but the interesting thing about clarity at least initially is that it's really uncomfortable when you set aside all the the distractions and entertainment. We have so close at hand whether that's an addiction. Like drinking or drugs a pension for checking your instagram feet or your email every five five minutes or just binging on Netflix every night. When you set those distractions aside and you start to see what's really going on? It's not necessarily pleasant. Isn't for me. That dark tunnel ended up being kind of lengthy Karma review followed by extremely uncomfortable series of confrontations with what Carleen calls the shadow self. It was sort of like one of those carnival rides where you go through a haunted house in every few minutes the ride jerks to a stop and something scary he POPs out except it's something scary from your past. I thought to finding clarity was about the future but it turns out it was about doing a deep excavation nation of my past so that I could let go of some things I didn't need to be carrying around anymore guilt neuroses and even creative ambitions so I ended up spending a lot of twenty nineteen on that creaky roller coaster slowly wheeling through the past being confronted with these sort of painful Karmic vignettes. Let's I'd be sailing through life. And all of the sudden the ride would screech to a stop an outward pop this realization of how cruel it been past relationship. How many false is promises I'd made broken someone's heart and I would sit and stew in that for a while reflecting on how I could be in relationships in a more conscious way? Hey the future and what even wanted out of a relationship in the first place and what does it mean to be a loving person and then after a certain amount of somewhat agonizing processing the ride would move on and I go back to my life until it jerked to a stop again with some horrible new vignette this time about all of the occasions when I had been a bully or done something deliberately to make someone uncomfortable or the next time as I had to confront some serious health. Both problems related to my throat and my voice. No big deal just a core part of my work identity as of course. That's how you and I are communicating right now. Well then I decided to move to the woods upstate and that opened up a whole other can of worms anyway. You get the gist. All of these. He's unconscious fears in a row sees just kept bubbling up to the surface for examination stuff that I wasn't conscious of the past so they just played out his actions that I took Hook but didn't fully understand as young says of the shadow that which we do not bring to. Consciousness appears in our lives as fate. And I'm finding this new clarity and consciousness seeking turned out to be a lot more uncomfortable than I had imagined at least initially sort of like when your foot falls asleep and you try to wake it up eventually. You have a full range of motion again but that initial awakening involves a kind kind of strange tinguely pain but once I emerged from that dark tunnel of Karmic review. Something interesting happened. And you'll remember as I headed out my nineteen day retreat. I thought it was going to write a screenplay. I thought I was going to do this thing that I had been wanting to do for twenty years while surprise I did not do it because I realize this desire to do this other thing to write the screenplay had been making me feel bad about myself for twenty years that I was using this creative ambition for the future as a tool to make me feel dissatisfied with whatever I was was actually doing. Forget about this book I rode or that course I made or this podcast. I created. I would only feel fully realized realized when I finally did this other thing over there in the future when I wrote that screenplay in the minute that I realized that that I have been using using this creative ambition to write the screenplay is some kind of horrible cattle prod that constantly made me feel guilty. I was able to let go because I didn't want to continue to actively create a situation. Where would ever I was doing right now would always feel less than what's more I realized that that script I had been making notes on for years and years wasn't even in line with my values anymore because so much changed while the plot construct was really clever in a way the ultimate goal is to pull the rug out from underneath the viewer in the end in a way that would create a feeling ling of hopelessness and mistrust? In other words it was very anti healing and I don't really want to spend years years and years laboring to create a piece of art that makes people feel bad. We've got enough things on hand to give us anxiety now the describing this might make make it sound easy like it was no big deal to give up this creative ambition. I had for twenty years. But that's certainly not the case. It was incredibly difficult and I played all those mental bargain games that I'm sure you're familiar with where you're like if I stop wanting this thing or if I really let go of this thing then once I do that that means I get to have it. Right letting go isn't easy as Christine Downing writes in her wonderful book the goddess the truth that will give us back a lost part of ourselves is also the one that takes away a south to which we have been deeply attached. Now there might also be another group of you listening who just thinks. This sounds a little bit sat this idea of letting go of a big big long standing artistic ambition but let me tell you. It was such a huge relief more like taking off a hair shirt. Then leading a dream die because the thing is I realized how much I had changed over the twenty years during which I was continuing to cling to this old ambition ambition and that in the interim I had developed skills and talents and interests that I had never anticipated and as a result my work in this world in the way that I could best serve was also different than I had anticipated disappointing but in a way that was exhilarating. If there's one core question of this podcast it is probably what is enough. And I don't just mean in terms of productivity. I mean it in every sense what is enough personally and creatively and spiritually because is when we recognize what is enough and let go of the rest like of all of those ambitions for more than and only then can we expand for the first time in my life. I decided to let the thing. I'm working on right now. Be Enough and unexpectedly. That's what's going to allow the purview of the show and my personal brand such as it is to expand for season three. I've decided as one of my mentors likes to say to finally come out of the spiritual closet by which I mean some of my more four out their interests like energy healing and psychedelics and astrology which have previously been tucked away. Backstage will be coming into play this season as I said earlier. This show has always been about something bigger than just productivity for me. It's about making sense of how to navigate work work and life and relationships in a meaningful way amidst the backdrop of a world that's filled with uncertainty and that's obsessed with officiency and speed and we're technology is constantly changing the game in terms of what's expected us. It's a lot to deal with so this season. Avi Diving into a series of themes that feel particularly urgent to me as we go hurtling into this unknown future themes like self image transformation intuition boundaries and affects how we think about ourselves elves how we make positive change how we tap into our creative wisdom how we protect our time and energy and what values might we use to guide us in this process. I'll be continuing with the same rhythm as last season with a new episode releasing every other week and doing a mix of short short episodes like this one with longer interviews but the whole thing will get a little bit looser freer and more expansive. I'm hoping for conversations that are more intimate and improvisational and authentic. But we'll see how it all unfolds and the coming months I'll also have some exciting announcements about some new projects putting out into the world. I'm hard at work scheming on a big new event to invite you to twenty twenty and I'm also building out a new business around my raking practice called the light heart project which will be operating out of New York City so more soon on those items in the meantime heads up that I'll be opening registration for my online course reset starting again in mid December with the four week program kicking off in early January. Sorry just in time to help you make good on all those New Year's resolutions if you're not already familiar with reset its unique online course. That will teach teach you how to work in a way. That's intentional energizing. And inspiring to learn more or be notified when registration opens. You can sign up for the newsletter just letter at Reset Hyphen course dot com. That's reset hyphen. COURSE DOT com. I'll be back again in two weeks. The the first interview of season three with a person who is very near and dear to my heart until then thanks for listening and remember to. Hurry slowly.

Jocelyn K. Glide New York City Debbie Millman Rob Walker marijuana instagram Jenny Odell Netflix Carleen David Hook Christine Downing twenty years fifty percent three years nineteen eighteen day five five minutes forty second nineteen day
Mellow Beats and Ultra Violence

DISGRACELAND

44:13 min | 1 year ago

Mellow Beats and Ultra Violence

"Welcome. Welcome. Welcome back to the Bob left sets podcast. That's right. We're back with all new episodes with your favourite musicians, comedians promoters, and behind the scenes people just like my newsletter. Were I analyse the issues I'm going to go deep with the guests. So if you want to know what's going on in the entertainment industry, you've got a tune into the Bob left sets podcast on the iheartradio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Hey, guys disgrace land is back in your podcast feeds and soon to be on a stage near you. That's right. I'm bringing the podcast live Boston on may tenth Denver may twenty fifth San Francisco June twenty first to twenty third for cluster fest. Good a disgrace slam. Pau dot com slash tour to buy tickets for more info. That's disgrace land pod dot com slash tour for tickets in. Now, let's get into the show. Disgrace land is a production of I heart radio, double Elvis media. The stories about hip. Hop star XXX ten tests Yonne are insane. He be the so mate to near death bludgeoned, his pregnant girlfriend and incited riots from the stage during his life shows. He was born into violence informed by it. It was there for him. When nothing when nobody was there for him. He was alone despite his growing fame or perhaps because of it unable to get a grip on his life a life that was mysteriously cut short a life that began in ended in violence, and that produced great music along the way. That music. You heard the top of the show that wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from mellow Tron called Louis mellow bolero B K one I played you that loop because I can't afford the rights to psycho by post Malone. And why would I play that specific slice of imagine minor to cheese? Could I Ford it because that was the number one song in America on June eighteenth thousand eighteen in that was the day that XXX ten Pacione went on a shopping spree that turned deadly. But ultimately, freed him from a world of intense, loneliness and pain. On this episode psycho cheese, ultraviolet XXX ten Tassio. I'm Jay Brennan. This disgrace. Jail. It makes crazy Jace on for a new this. His father taught him this at a young age. It was probably the most important thing. He taught him in jail. If you're not careful crazy will rub off on you. And no matter what you think of your fellow prisoners. No matter how close you become too. You're always alone. Joe sure technically this was in jail. It was a juvenile detention center, but just say called it as he saw young jail. He was sixteen and had one of the longest rap sheets. Have any of the kids in lockup? He was in for a year on a gun possession charge. But everyone who knew him knew that more charges would eventually be handed down to young Jace. He had that complete lack of shit's to give menace bleeding out of the corners of his squinty is an utter lack of respect. And almost every one of his mannerisms Jace was a punk high school dropout. But young jail wasn't all bad. He met ski there aka ski mask the slump. God birth name. Stokely Gobert Jace ski became fast friends, watched each other's backs vibe on hip hop. They talked about making music together on the outside like ski or ski mask the slump. God Jace had an MC name as well. XXX ten Tassio or unknown temptation. And at this moment ski was trying to protect XXX invest Yonne aka ex from being subjected to some punks on known tation. There's a Perv on the block who's into fresh meat in young jail. So mates were rotated every two weeks. So Xs time in the barrel was about to come up. His new Silmi was the creep ski warned him about Beck sat on his stared at his magazine, his new cellmate stood against the wall. His head seemingly off somewhere else. But his is starting back toward X, whatever he thought X wasn't paying attention. And this went on for days whenever they're alone in the cell pissed off tension building a taking time. X told one of the guards you this do better recognized who's fucking with I'll keep to myself. I leave him alone. But if he comes up me wrong, I'm gonna fucking kill no joke. His dad was right crazy. It rubbed off on that night. After the warning to the guard X built is purvie. Roommates is nearing again. I casually glancing in his direction then unable to break his gaze at Texas crotch. Fuck this X leap that Abed snatched the Perv by the throat slammed him hard into the wall. The self grabbing his crotch and squeezed him into submission his lips inches away from his cellmates face. He spat out who do you think you are all the Perv? Could say was no, no, no ex- pulled his hand off to crotch and need him in the nuts. His cellmate fell to the ground. Excellent full has Manian devil a world fury of fists and kicks as you proceeded to beat the desire out of his would be sexual sailing. He lost himself. He was beyond the moment. Somewhere else transported by the violence. Suddenly he was six years old again back home with his mom. His dad was in lockup again as he had been for most of Xs young life, one of his mom's boyfriends attacking humbly her with his vis and his kicks dragging her about their tiny apartment by the hair yelling incomprehensively zero humanity. It was horrifying little Jessie. But he was determined to do something about it. He grabbed a shot glass from the floor wreckage from the recent melee and charged full. Steam ahead at his mom's boyfriend, he dove Adam and began stabbing. His mom's attacker all over in the violent act of bravery worked. His mom's boyfriend hip quick and split. It taught young Jace lesson violence is effective it works. It's a means to an end when the world won't listen, stab it in the side of the gut with a shard of glass from a broken bottle of Saint is. Back in the now in cell Xs assailant now as victims listening listening to the sounds of ex- grunting between a hail of fists and feet. The thought of stabbing his mom's attacker had an even more keyed up. You is not in controlling more. He was gone as he administered the beating my drifted further back in the past the memory stunk of Dake weeds, sweat melancholy. Hugh's back on the streets. He was raised up on in the ghetto that they called the four way just south of Florida north of absolutely nowhere. His mom took care of him as best. She could back them constantly reminding him how pretty encouraging him to get gold teeth. Build up his grill from a young age, his mom was full of advice. She's the one who told him that. If necessary he could hit a woman, but he had to be a gentleman about putting his hands on a girl was only allowed after giving her a warning, stop, whatever she was doing was knowing this notion jive with his early experiences with violence means to an end x was learning. He's also starting to learn something more acceptable music members of extended family and courage to explore this passion, it was clear from young age that he was obsessively music. So on signed him up for school and church choir an extra for what? But eventually he was kicked out for physically attacking other chorus member over a small slight. And it wasn't unlike the beating us now laying onto his cellmate relentless lined rage in the cell X furious punching kicking screaming don't fucking touch me. Nobody can touch don't fucking touch me. Nobody can touch. Ex- grab the mangled mess of body in the floor still growing drag his cellmate lip the bed. The bloody jumpsuit slid wet along the hard floor when he got under the bed expletive is victims blood matted at head by the back of the scalp and started positioning his face into a bite position over the edge of the steel bed. Friend open your mouth, mother fucker open. It ex going to curb stomp the purse desk, and that moment the cell doors open and the guards rushed in saving Xs victim from X ultimately ex from himself just in the nicotine a lifetime. Violent self-preservation have been unleashed onto this bloody. Pulp of a kid offer looking at X wrong way. And the dude was gurney to the ER, but at least as John was still tach to his skull. An ex would not be adding a murder charge to his already too long rap. She as the guards restored order exit on his bunk appearing somewhat disoriented. He looked up at them shaking his head. I told you I told you was all he said. The guards the guards threw into solitary for the night X murked while being hauled off for one precious evening. He'd be a piece after days getting fucked by so mate, the alone. Time was welcome. This was solitude not solitary. In artists never long long drives empty houses solitary confinement. It doesn't matter in artists has their thoughts. Their ideas their art to keep them company in solitary confinement ex could work the beats rhymes. He had become obsessed with this head all night long. He and ski we'd be out a few months and X knew that that would be his time. He'd really be able to pursue his music gain recognition and escape the street to school street to prison pipeline, he was half, right? Once released from juvie X realized something freedom was lonely almost like jail, obviously, not as bad. But now that he's a little bit older on the outside. The more reality set in the more. It seemed like there was only one constant in this life. Loneliness. You come into this world the same way you go out alone is fuck. Ex- hustled worked on his music to keep his mind in the right place. The recognition didn't come 'til he dropped his first soundcloud track. Vice city early two thousand fourteen several EP's followed over the next year, including his first collaboration with ski Xs dark moody beats and unfiltered Rives one over a passionate following. He was stoked. He had what most artists never find an audience, and because of it he seemed less alone. There are others other kids you felt left behind by the real world, even they were born just like X touring time when it was a given that if you were a kid you were going to have the internet Jack into your veins twenty four seven the supposedly be connected, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, the father son, and the Holy Ghost of generation, Z constant engagement constant Ed v constant desire a sea of like minded peers swipe away. But so hard to form a real connection with. Life was complicated and social media recognition in a burgeoning career. Couldn't raise an entire childhood of violence in the glass Xs career group, and so did the pressure. So we dealt with the only way knew how through violence his rap. She grew right alongside star through his music X became a mirrors, new fans, loneliness and pain his music had meaning the views listens to likes the shares. They all piled up and soon the money started to pile up to but it was angels. Not in the same way as crime dangerous emotionally, existential X felt a growing void inside of him a nine issue the only music scratch the solution went like this get sad. Get high fuck around with logic. Make be get sad again, get high again, write some lyrics record vocal mix over give the track Dame export the file to an MP three host the song online, and let the internet dudes thing. Make him a star it works until it didn't because his ex soon found out the internet is a fucking black hole. Just like the whole inside him. He was trying to fill one hole with another ex knew the truth about the internet better than anyone that it's an abyss. He knew that when you stare into that abyss stares back you and it's scary as fuck like any other fear ex- experienced. He thought he could fight it. He knew the perspective he ripped in his music because you need, but universal he could feel it in the first crackles of recognition. He touched a nerve after life of loneliness violence as music was his chance to connect to feel the warmth of belonging. Fuck fear x dove into the void had. I. On Instagram Jocelyn floors booming follower count newer as at real Jocelyn. Most of our internet followers are back home in Ohio. But she was in the south now lost in the swampy flatlands of Florida with its sticky air and starlit nights. She was alone in the back seat of a strange car staring out the window being driven somewhere. She didn't know by two men. She didn't know, and they didn't know her either the two men were talking in the front ignoring Jocelyn making plans to get high eat some Jimmy Johns once they took care of her later when asked by police Justin had said anything to them before the incident, all they could remember was her muttering to herself and her breath lesson learned. They zip through the dead, Florida air Jocelyn. Always hated the quiet, but what she wouldn't do now to be back in a quiet bedroom in Ohio one good thing about the quiet. She thought was it had a way of making the sound of her Instagram. Notifications all the more exciting when they ring out on her phone loud and exhilarating in the dead. Silence of her parents house just a couple of weeks before she was just another teen girl sitting on her bed of sess through their phone staring into the void she'd exhausted her feed having scroll down repeatedly for the past ninety minutes at I totally gauged casually liking this commenting on that balancing in another profile. She was newly interested in a cage Nally deeming friends, even knew people she'd maybe like to get to know. This was serious stuff. The DM the direct message a high wire act on Instagram. Sure, go ahead and send a message to that person. But if they don't respond dead. There's no coming. Back from the other person's is Jocelyn was careful with who she reached out to social media politics were the only politics in scary stuff. Don't get Cobb begging. The void stare back. Because that would mean, you were totally. For Jocelyn and Spiring Instagram model from conservative religious family. Social media was a lifeline of conduit to imagine life of better life in Instagram was a portal, reassured her there were other people like her out there, and that she wasn't all by herself. Nothing made her feel more alone. Unreturned direct message. Conversely, nothing made her feel more alive. Solicited direct message from someone interesting, particularly someone interesting with a lot of followers and someone just like that reached out one thousand miles across the globe. Voi-? Here's a rapper from Florida not much older than her, but he was hitting critical mass on soundcloud way faster than she was on Instagram. He just got not a juvie was still on parole. She had a troubled past just like him his online presence felt raw and unfiltered. She felt Ron unfiltered all the time. But this guy by comparison was an expose nerve. And she was quickly obsessed. His name on soundcloud was XXX ten tests Yonne, and that's exactly what appealed the Jocelyn. He was an unknown temptation in just a few days started texting back and forth, even got on Skype and FaceTime together. He was looking the launch clothing line. He. He thought she could model form had he just slid into her GM's for sex and business there talks didn't feel transactional tour. They had a real connection. Didn't they started chatting so much so fast when he offered to buyer played ticket to come stay with him in Florida? She gave the phone to mom. So he could ask her permission as she was only sixteen after all a mob didn't know much about the internet. She knew her daughter knew how unhappy she wasn't Ohio. She had been cutting herself and threatening suicide since the age twelve maybe a few days in the sunny south with their new, quote, unquote, friend would help besides her friend was asking permission, so polite. What was the worst that can happen, but Joscelyn's dreams wilted fast in the Florida heat X kept her at an apartment with a second. You know, you could be a model to check names. Zoey who conveniently never mentioned a Johnson neither girls. Happy about it by the end of her first week in their bag seven grand. Cash Xs pay for his most recent live shows had gone missing from his room, he and his entourage place. The two girls in separate rooms in grilled them. Like cops seeking confession both of them denied, the theft accused the other and we're ready to fight it out situation was heated, and whatever might happen next wouldn't go over well with Xs parole officer, something had to give fuck this X get rid of both girls. So here she was in a place. She didn't belong being told. She didn't belong kicked out in the back seat of Xs boys ship box rattling down the road on route to wherever they decided she should be two. Members of Xs crew pulled into a Hampton inn they booked a room. What was the plan? She wondered was ex- going to buy a ticket home without giving any information within an hour of arriving Xs dudes split to get high. Apparently, there was no plan at all. But it was clear to Jocelyn ex. She had just been a thing prop in object. His boys. Treating her like contraband at a stash house after two weeks of sudden intense connection last techs accent Jocelyn was to tell her that she couldn't stay with him anymore. She felt more low now than she ever did back in her room in Ohio, isolated staring aimlessly at her phone life was cruel lesson learned time. When one of Xs boys return later Jocelyn was in the bathroom. The door was locked lights were on blazed out of his mind that dude didn't think twice about it before he passed out on the hotel bed when you woke the next morning to piss he found that the bathroom door was still locked and the lights were still on Jocelyn was shit. He banged on the door yell opened up. I try to piss my pants nothing being some more nothing on the other side. He called the front office by the time the maintenance man showed up at the key the bathroom door Xs dude knew what was waiting for them on the other side. Joscelyn floors dead body. The sixteen year old had taken her own life. There's a no red. I always get let down maybe because I expect so much from people who don't give a fuck about me, the no then ended with the haunting line. Well, at least I know who I am. When x her the news. He was shook in a haze Tacoma week to address the situation. The only way knew how like connecting twos fans through Snapchat and confessional video. There was this girl. I basically flew down model. Model much great girl. Beautiful girl, wonderful personality showed no signs of depression whatsoever. What she flew down here in an unexplained way she killed herself when she came down here. It was a devastating situation to deal with basically got on her address her and her family of because I haven't been able to obviously contact him. Personally. I'm on here. Pay my condolences. Whatever grief X really felt publicly. He appeared to give short shrift pretty soon use turing while Joscelyn's family was left with nothing but questions, but there's no denying that. This extremely disturbing sequence of events. Let the genuine impact on x his first album seventeen came out a few months later. It would feature to tracks inspired by the tragic death Jocelyn Flora's revenge in another title, simply Jocelyn Florus both were incredibly raw in pain foil. And in unsettling move the key art for the song revenge was a copy of Jocelyn suicide note itself horrifying as it was exit transformed an unthinkable tragedy into something relatable. He had taken life threatening loneliness and transformed it into a connection with his audience online. And when they listen to the track late at night alone in their room staring into their phones. They like Jocelyn before them knew that they weren't alone. We'll be right back after this word were were RAFI is are the everyday slats for life on the go there. Silence. Comfortable and go with everything from yoga pants to dresses and skirts. They've quickly become a most loved gotta have them brand. Thanks to their wide range of colors and patterns with new ones luncheon constantly, and there's zero break in period since Rossi's crafted using three D knitting techniques and hand assembly there seamless design means right out of the box comfort. Best of all they're made from recycled plastic water bottles. That's right over twenty five million water bottles have been diverted from landfills to make these gorgeous and sustainable shoes. Another major bonus. They're fully machine washable. So your pair will be fresh and ready every laundry day, plus Rossi's, always come with free shipping and free returns and exchanges. There's no risk. And no reason not to try you'll quickly. Discover why BuzzFeed called them there. Forever shoes. Check out all the amazing styles available right now at Rossi's dot com slash iheart, comfort style and sustainability. These are the shoes you've been waiting for head to Roth dot com. That's our T H Y S dot com slash iheart today. Hello. It's been an Emery from WVU ours podcast, endless thread. Oh, you don't know us totally fair. We don't technically know yet either. But we do know you have excellent taste in podcasts. Humble suggestion continue your winning streak and add endless thread to your podcast rotation. It's hosted by yours truly and each episode dives into the vast ecosystem of online communities called read. It we tell stories that are ripping surprising funny. Sometimes all three like a sandwich made out of a firecracker a VO constrictor and a clown. Okay. Now who would eat a sandwich like that. I mean anyone after listening to our show. Okay, buddy subscribed. Endless thread wherever you get your podcast or listen via the computer. We just secretly installed in your cranium. What nothing fi? One month at the Jocelyn Flora's took her life XXX ten Tassio to stage at the observatory in San Diego song had begun performing wasn't on any album yet. What is legion of downhearted diehards already knew it. Well enough to sing along x wore sandals. Bright red basketball shorts in a hoodie dressed like a slob pulling it off as only nineteen year old. Can he had that gray sweatpants look on lock ex? But one on the stage the other of the monitor wedge in front of him. He looked creed. In Connie Idi, owns spotlight Kurd TAT's. He held Mike gently who's sensitive tough guy vibe that his fans couldn't resist self-loathing opening verse was about to head then from out of nowhere. Some dude came bombing across stage, leptin veer came down hard on x with a full body flying sucker punching his clenched fist connected. Straight onto Xs right temple with the fuck just happened for an instant the crowd was in shock X went down like brick out code who the hell just knocked the star attraction live on stage crowded. No, they went Abe ship flooded stage. Xs crew members of some other entre immediately in bare knuckle brawl who the fuck worthies dudes, obviously they were with the stage. Dive bomber a security member used as burly body to shield Xs limb form and tried clearing lane to carry the unconscious wrapper off stage the brawl quickly escalated into a knife fight screens rose up from the audience near stage. Right someone who just been stuck with a long blade, chaos everywhere. The tech crew is in the mix. Now trying to remove gear from the stage and getting caught up in the melee mic. Stands were weaponized. PA equipment was trashed the audience morphed into part Friday night under the lights fight fans. Part camera crew multiple fans captured the whole incident on their phones an Xs fans who followed every be close. Online knew who the attacking crew was on. This started chanting. Fuck rob stone. Fuck rob stone fucked rob stone. Rob stone was a local rapper who had been feuding with Xs crew since back in April, and he skis started talking shit about him after sharing a Bill in LA, adding to the insanity of it all exit prerecorded backing track complete with vocals and moody guitar from revenge kept pumping out over the venue sound system, providing a first person soundtrack to his own beatdown wild. Exit. Come a long way from his skis days back and young jail in some ways in another ways. He was right back where we started Gulf in violence. He spent three years building, a rabid fan base on soundcloud was solo tracks in EP collapses ski, but soundcloud doesn't pay crime does. So while he built his fan base. He paid the bills of the series of home invasions, robbing was serious. Business ex was busted back in November the following March. He pled no contest to robbery and battery charges and now he was on probation for six years. Probation or not Xs rise seemed unstoppable any wanted to make the leap from gangster to mogul. Adam twenty two is now as manager ASEP rocky was tweeting about him. He had a girlfriend to Geneva somebody picked up at a show, but a girlfriend on the less. A who's trying to straighten out easier said than done Drake that Canadian after school special take him home to your parents pretty boy that middle of the road Rama source of mediocrity released a new song KMT, and when he did Xs online army freaked the fuck out Drake was ripping off excess flow or so went their gut reactions Twitter. Detectives showed the Drake just started following Exxon. Twitter a month before came t hit hip hop. Youtubers mashed up the two tracks to expose Drake. As a rip off artists might be a coincidence. But that dude Drake at a bad history. Tweeted preference, Drake straight up stealing XXX, ten Tassio flow and dead. A f- tweeted Tamale Exposito pissed you could have murdered Drake in a radio interview. He called it. A quote, unquote, bitch move and said Drake wasn't a man. The beef drove a ton of online engagement, and there was a fever pitch surrounding ex his fans were legion. And the buzz wasn't just about a new potential voice of generation if it like more than that. Because X wasn't their voice Xs more than that he was their bloodstream Xs fans returning out to be violent as him because crazy rubs off on you, the knife fights on stage were bad, but Xs fans were likely to riot any given show a performance in Miami. That April turned into a full fledged bra with police X punched a fan in the face in Salt Lake City and California he beat another fan in the head with his microphone in Tampa. A crowd two and a half times the venue's capacity took to the streets after thirties cancelled a show for public safety, the mob became a ri-. Chased Xs cars at left block streets, enchanted fuck no over and over exit survived his childhood and built a hip hop career by living his life as an expose nerve. Like a brain cell. He could fire the chemically. Pure message of his music across the abyss across the synapse of the internet and light up all the other brains around him his audience and pretty soon he has the whole hive mind has fan base on fire, and they're were setting venues afire with violence and turn. But no matter how much action stirred up. No matter how connection generated X still felt loan. The guilded cage of fame turned out to be like that night back in young in jail with the Perv to x fame was like being trapped in the so with that vacant stare. It was a constant paranoid issue that no amount of art or expression could fill he felt hollowed out emptied. The void followed him wherever he went now constantly threatening to consume him. And there was no escape. It was at his worst. When. Alone or private moments with his girl Geneva. She met exit a show the previous may within a couple of weeks. She moved in with him at his Miami apartment. But there was no world wind. Romance was a runaway elevator drop into a living. Hell yes, that's a trigger warning for some seriously. Fucked up abusive is about to be depicted. So skip ahead. A couple of minutes if you wanna skip out on hearing some truly bar Barrick shit. According to Geneva's testimony eventual deposition for domestic violence charges within two weeks of living together ex confronted her with a barbecue. Fork? And a wire grow cleaning brush and told her she had a choice. She didn't have to deal with both violent instruments, but she did have to choose one or him to fucker with. She shook with fear. Heck's leaning close Byan stroking the fork longer inter thought. Geneva past that for making your choice. Within a couple of months and moved to Orlando expert and the killer nearly every day one ninety her Geneva humming along to another hipsters verse in jealous rage. He head butted. Her threw her into the bath tub jumped on top of her beat her senseless, then forced her head under the faucet and began waterboarding. XXX ten Tassio straight uncut evil. For a few months after Landau things got better. But only because ex was in jail awaiting court date on the robbery charges Geneva, try to scape- into Texas and living with friends there while she had the chance, but ultimately she fell back to Florida and get sucked back into the circle of Xs entourage. Once got on probation, the choking the coat hanger whippings the threatened stabbings with knives and broken bottles. It all started up again. In fact, there were two things that may Geneva's situation worse than ever now. Number one, while experts in jail, she slept with another man. Number two. That fall amongst the beatings and the chaos exca- Geneva pregnant when you get the news that she was pregnant his nuclear meltdown reaction to this new information was so vile, so depraved that resulted in more criminal charges battery of a pregnant woman and false imprisonment arrested again, but to ex-. The worst part wasn't the long arm of law. He cared about that about as much as you really cared about Geneva. The worst part was the controversy the followed because feting to cut short the one thing that gave Xs sense of purpose it threaten to cut them off from his fans for good a reality that will leave XXX ten Tassio utterly completely. Geneva told Xu's going to have his baby at the beginning of October two thousand sixteen so on that afternoon XXX ten tests Tessier loss ever loving shit at first use chill calm before the storm style. Hang on the bed next to her. She broke the news. He told her to get up. He got up and began pacing around the room. Then he flew into a rage screaming yelling demanding to know everything about her sleeping with someone else. While he was in jail and threatened to kill her and the baby if she lied, obviously, reminding him that she told him everything, and this is sorry and solve anything X escalated quickly to fists and elbows to her face headbutts strangulation all to the point where when he dragged her into the bathroom this time. She couldn't recognize the face in the mirror. Her life is safe. The moment by the return of their other housemates members of Xs crew put enough of check on his inner chaos. Heavy stop. Beating her while they were around Geneva. Beg than the litter. Go to the hospital, but acts newer face would be the end of his parole. So he and his boys disguised her hoodie and sunglasses Stiller phone drove to different apartment where they keep your stashed interlocking key while she healed up. They kept Geneva prisoner for two full days. There are bars on the windows an ex chilling in the living room on his computer telling her that if she was smart stick by until she had the money to take care of self or she didn't up homeless. Geneva decided fuck it made her scape while claiming she was going to make XM meal. She opened the refrigerator door to block herself from his site. A mad dash for the hallway Geneva sprinted away from the complex. Sure, the X would be in hot pursuit. She convinced by standard a letter use their phone. She can only remember one number ex-boyfriend. She gets safely to a police station in filed charges X was arrested. The same day the strange tale of kidnapping and gasoline was a lot for the mainstream music industry to swallow Xs career ascent converged with times up to movements and yet here was America's latest hip, hop sensation accused of doing things to women as bad or worse than anything in the misogynistic lyrics of the gangsta rap era of decades past fifteen years earlier, Eminem dark fantasies of murdering his wife and song had shocked the nation. But now, the suppose it woke jen's e millennial fan base of the accused XXX ten Tassio. Outright refused to believe the charges against him. It got weirder. Despite the charges of physical abuse Xs online army of fans up voted him to the coveted people's choice. Lot XL two thousand seventeen freshman class issue. This was a big deal, however, XL, readers and other music at to'real sites. Questioned of ex should be celebrated complex refused to reviews first full album pitchfork spent their review of gazing into their naval about whether or not it was morally okayed, listen to XXX ten Tassio despite all of this Exide multimillion dollar deal with Caroline records. What he was on. Well, if XXX ten Tassio taking rocket ride to start him than that rocket was now burning up upon reentry, the charges the criticism, the looming prison sentence, the potential loss of his career, it intensified, the void the man who just say on for a head become the man who caught all the crazy. The rubbed off on them. The man who was raised up in violence. The man he was deep down had. Now been pushed out into the public and XXX ten Tassio could not handle it his albums, charting, and Kendrick. Lamar was even boosting it on Twitter, but deep down ex had never felt so alone. But assembler he was desperate to feel in control again and the trial over his domestic abuse against Geneva was delayed, but it loomed like the ghost of Jocelyn Florus. When accent is attorney submitted an affidavit signed by Geneva to court claiming that she wanted to drop the case and stop cooperating with prosecutors. The judge smelled arap. It took no time to figure out exit done it again threatened Geneva manipulated her into signing this job of document, suddenly Xs facing even more charges for witness tampering. And now potentially decades maybe the rest of his life in prison, and yet the void needed to be fed. And now signed to Caroline records, the recording industry machine needed to be fed to Xs lawyers got him out of jail by agreeing to house arrest and then after a few months even got his house arrest listed, so we could go on tour his second album, titled was just a question. Mark debuted at the number one spot on the billboard. Two hundred char beating out Metallica the Black Panther. Soundtrack logic migos. All on the same week making XXX ten tests. Yonne the first soundcloud rapper to have the number one record in the country. But the success was only more isolating. It was more. Attention more judgment, Moore haters. One morning in June of two thousand eighteen x posted a live stream from his car. Let's say the worst thing comes to worse and fucking die tragic death or some shit, and I'm not able to see out, my jeans, I at least want to know that the kids perceive. My message it were able to make something of cells and do not let you depress you make you pain is a sign of progress. Will you feel pain? There is progress. I feel so much and to a degree. I wanna feel that pain. I wanna always feel attached he stumbled over his words, semi answers pleased. That's that's all I wanna say. There were no answers X retreated further into himself, but it was too late too late for privacy too late for reason. In the spring of two thousand eighteen Xs Instagram account blasted out several messages in a row pouring gasoline. He's long simmering beef with Drake most incendiary claim was a message that simply said Fenwick kills me. I was champagne pappy streaks GM. The message went on to say, I'm snitching almost immediately afterward excavated, the posts and cleaned his account been hacked, then in may push a t released as mmediately infamous distract against the story of added-on which had cover art Drake and black face and in which push lyrically exposed drink for keeping a secret lovechild on the DL. Rumors swirled that exit found out about this earlier digging of dirt for his own beef with Drake told push Tiba. As some reproach the internet did with internet does best lost fucking mind going down rabbit holes. And search a secret codes hid means the high mind read Lear Drake's look live, you won't be expected. Ship capital goes the slide said I put that shit behind this. But I lied in. Drake's most recent single before Xs previously mentioned streams, titled I'm upset included lyrics SMS triple X. That's the only time shoop below the neck, and then just one week after his last live video XXX ten Tassio was dead. On june. Eighteenth ex had a stash of cash on like, usual, Louis Vuitton bag. He was out on a spending spree at the motorcycle shop in Deerfield Beach, Florida. He was sitting in his car when two men rolled up next to one wearing red mask and shot him straight in the chest. They reach through the window to steal shit and drove off no Jocelyn Geneva. Go down with no ski masks to rider, dive X died as feared alone. Was it a simple robbery, but was nabbing the bag just to cover for vast hip hop conspiracy. In the words of XXX ten contests on semi answers, please. But of course, he was asking the internet where for every answer. There are thousand new questions and the truth inevitably gets lost in the shuffle. The void finally consumed XXX ten Tassio X artist X the crazy violent thug and despicable abusive human that he was ex- meted to be alone to create to feel safe to connect to the void. So he pushed the people in his life away until all that was left was death. What a disgrace. I'm Jay Brennan in this screen. Screen. This episode at his Graceland its musical score theme song written by me. Jake, Brent disgrace as mixed and engineered by Sean Halen. Who also helps score this episode digital music score elements by Ryan spreaker are admitting was written and recorded by Ian Kennedy. This episode was co written by Taylor Benson and edited by Pat Healy disgrace and is produced by myself for double Elvis via in partnership with iheartradio. Sources for this episode are available on my website as are the sources for all. That's WWW dot this Graceland pod dot com. That's where you can find all info on disgrace. And including all of our new merch, new t shirts more zombie Elvis pins posters, stickers and more get order the website and bang on that merge, but if you'd like to win a free obvious vivid design season three poster head over to apple podcasts in the review for disgrace. Lynn jump on social media review disgrace with the hashtags Skype to disgrace. That's the winters on the next episode, which is coming your way on April thirtieth and his on aiming wine house last week's winners at TJ will fifty eight keeps doing that hammer and a coda Haney hit me up via the website and claim your free posters. Everyone else. Thanks for listening and for spreading the word talked me on Instagram and Twitter at Scripps land pod. And find had Facebook dot com slash disgrace land, pop finally if you'd like tickets to the live show on may tenth that Sinclair, you got about ten minutes before they sell out this show is going to sell out this week so head over to disgrace pod dot com slash toward a buy tickets now, and hopefully I'll see you in person in a couple of weeks until that role. He's a bad, man. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome back to the Bob left sets podcast. That's right. We're back with all new episodes with your favourite musicians, comedians promoters, and behind the scenes people just like my newsletter where I analyse the issues I'm gonna go deep with the guests. So if you want to know what's going on in the entertainment industry, you've got a tune into the Bob left sets podcast on the iheartradio app. Apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to your podcast.

Geneva Jocelyn Florida ski Lear Drake Twitter Jace Jocelyn Geneva robbery Bob iheartradio soundcloud Ohio Apple Jay Brennan Yonne Jocelyn Florus America
Jocelyn K. Glei

Design Matters with Debbie Millman

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Jocelyn K. Glei

"They don't even really like the phrase south help. But I do think that people need help. This is designed matters, but Debbie Noma from design observer dot com. Fourteen years. Now give you talking with his owners and other creative people about what they do. They got to be who they are. And what they're thinking about and working on this episode. Jocelyn cake lied talks about how the internet can lead to burnout. That's what's so problematic about the digital spaces it assumes like an infinite capacity. Here's deborah. I'd like to thank two of the patrons that helped make design matters possible is your team designing an app from scratch rethinking the look and feel of your brand may be taking on something massive like transforming your brand's entire customer journey. Well, don't do it. The old way passing. Numberless one off comes through endless emails. Instead, do it all in one place. Do it in a Doobie XT now for free with the new starter plan? Adobe exte- combines the ability to both design prototype and share in a single solution. It's combination of creativity and productivity let's your team's eliminate bottlenecks and simplify workflows. They can now create an interactive prototype, and then share it with teammates and reviewers in a single place. It keeps up with today's creative demand. Hands by letting your team work when and where they want across windows IOS, the web and more adobe exte- has helped big brands change the way they create and review. Prototypes. At a large scale. So don't do it. The old way. Use adobe X. Stay the design platform for the future. Available today for free for more information. Visit XT dot adobe dot com today, wicks dot com, puts the creative power of building dynamic web sites. Back into the hands of designers as anyone who has spent time in a whizzy wig platform knows what you see is it necessarily. Always what you get on the flip side for some. It's far too easy to get lost in code and lose the forest for the trees, wicks dot com. Allows you to find your own personal sweet spot and take control of your site would their drag and drop. Editor hundreds of advanced design features such as retina, ready image galleries. Custom font sets HD video and parallel scrolling effects and even service hassle-free coating for robust websites and with wicks dot com. You have total control of your web design like never before. So join wicks his brilliant community of designers artists and creatives at large around the world for free and ask yourself. What will you create today? According to Jocelyn K glide, we are living in an age of distraction, Email social media and the ever quickening news cycle are taking a huge toll on our productivity. Our creativity even on our happiness, but we are not hopeless here. Joscelyn's books and articles her podcast and a new online class aimed to show us the light at the end of our digital tunnels and lead us back out into the open air Jocelyn cake lie. Welcome to design matters. Thanks for having me W Joscelyn's several years ago. You did a Reddit ask me anything. And in it you offer to share what you would do if you found yourself confronted by one hundred duck sized horses. I was shocked no-one took you up on it. So let's. Find out here. Now, what would you do if you found yourself confronted by one hundred duck sized horses? Oh, that's not the opening question. I was expecting. We always like to keep our guests on their toes design matters. I think I would just lay down on the ground and really embrace that wave of duck sized horses nor duck sized horses. Ponies? I mean, I don't know. I mean, a normal ponies are different size. But it actually reminds me I was on the beach one time at the Cape. You know, it was in the summer and all of the sudden this like little army of Jack Russell terriers appeared without an owner. They were shepherded by a large greyhound like no human insight, and there were like four of them, and they were like eight weeks old, and they just ran up to me on my beach towel. And I was like am I in heaven like what is this? Did you go with them all home? You take them with you and your bag. We just kind of you know, we were together for a little while then their owner was, you know, distant half mile down the beach emerged. But that immediately I had a vision of that of that moment of kind of pure joy. So I think I'd be into it as a fellow podcast there. What were you anticipating my first question was going to be? Well, knowing your podcast. I was definitely anticipating having something that I said quoted back at me, which I'm sure is yet to hap-. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Buckle up. Well, give him motivated and seemingly on top of the game. You are today. I think some people would be surprised tiller. Learn the growing up you had of Peter Pan syndrome. You never thought about what you wanted to be. When you grew up because she would too busy climbing trees, you really never wanted to grow up. Why is that? I think I remember my childhood and particularly my early childhood. I think you know, from when I was a little kid until I was maybe five I lived in Virginia. And we were pretty rural Virginia so outside of our house. There was like this huge hill down into all of these beautiful woods was kind of a different time. Then in terms of the freedom that you could have as a child, you know, there wasn't all of this technology and cell phones, of course, tiny children don't have cell phones anyways. But also some do. But also, you didn't get the sort of news of what had you know, the has sort of all the horrible things that were happening to people all over the world. And so you should have much more sheltered. Right. I was just kind of running around in very carefree. I think and you know, I think as we get older a lot of that carefree nece tends to fall away and to to go back to that technology thing. I was touching on earlier. I was having a long. Conversation with a friend the other day kind of about that like can you as a parent or even as a child have that kind of care freeness anymore since we're discussing your early sense of play in the outdoors and random animals sort of crossing your path? I'm wondering if you could tell us about a defining moment in your early life a time when a stag you came across one day as a child and what happened when that when you encountered that stack will. So that was in Virginia when I was running around in the woods as enough and does and was was by myself. I think that's the other thing is that you know, just being able to I was thinking recently someone prompted me to do this meditation that was about childhood memories. And so many of my memories, I was alone. But not in a bad way, you know, but kind of loan walking around the woods, or you know, playing on the front porch something like that. But I'm one of them. I was. Back. I think I was headed back from hanging out with my neighbor friend, Brad Adams. I think it was five. So, you know, I'm not very big now little little person. And yeah, just knows strolling along. And there was just this huge. You know, stag that was normally, you know, Antlers and everything and it was just like this amazing. Majestic moment. But I was also really scared. You know, and as a just the sheer size of something like that, you know. But yeah, it's just one of those kind of little like special moments, you know, from your childhood that really stays with you just kind of the majesty of nature and also when you experience the majesty of nature, I think quite often. I mean, I literally was very small at that time. But it makes you feel small in like a good way. You know? Yes. Yes. Your mom was a teacher. But you've said that if she had grown up in your generation, she would have been an artist given her drying and painting skills, can you tell us a bit about her. Catch books and the impact they had on you. Yeah. We'll so she had these sketchbooks that she used to keep under her bed, and you know, near a kid you'd love to like go get into someone stuff. If you can you know, and so things under the bed. Right. Your mom had sketchbooks out to tell you what my very racy. So. Yeah, I don't know if she showed them to me or I just found them later, but she was really good at at drawing people drawing their faces which is actually quite difficult like sort of one of the I've always felt like one of the more difficult aspects of drawings capturing someone's face, and I don't know why. But I used to just like go in there, and you know, pull them out from under the bed and just kind of look at them. And I think also it was maybe it was interesting to me because it allowed me to see sort of a different side of her because she's from a different generation. And at that time, you know, there just wasn't. The all of the resources that we have now to build, you know, a career or a business around our creativity in some way, I think she had wanted to go to art school. But her my father got married fairly young not for that. But you know, I think she was like twenty one an end up pursuing a career in teaching instead. But it always kind of felt like there was a sort of artistic soul about her. And that was always something that she wanted to pursue. And you know, she's still does in her in her free time. And I think she she really past that kind of visual art, gene onto my brother. I got more of the more of the writing gene than the the hand eye coordination good hand eye coordination for sports, but not for number art. Meanwhile, you said that your dad nuclear engineer was extremely Taipei an overachiever intensely driven and motivated and giving these attributes of your parents, it seems like you're. A really good example of the perfect ven diagram of of Mr. and MRs Glaive and how Jocelyn popped out. Would you agree? Maybe. So I mean, yeah, I've never I've never thought about about why? But I think that's absolutely true. I think so much of the work that I do now is really sometimes I recall myself, like a recovering Taipei, you know, is about kind of recognizing that I have been in this very like over achieving ambitious perfectionist mindset and trying to figure out how to turn down the volume on that and be able to be a little bit more grounded and a little bit more present because all of that stuff, right? Kinda takes you out of the present moment and into the future right super future focused, and that's always a part of me. Like, you can't get you can't just get rid of it. But you know, trying to find the balance I want to stay in the past for a few more minutes in one interview. I read you describe to. Two key moments in your life that seemingly couldn't be more opposite seeing the stag in the rural woods of Lynchburg Virginia. And then the day your family got their first computer bring us back to that moment. I mean, it was I think I was about fifteen maybe one teenager for sure got our first computer. I don't remember exactly what happened on that day. But what I ended up doing was making Zine with it. And that was back when it was like really crappy clip, our, you know, type thing. Yeah. But I got really into it. And so I used to I design the Zine and on and on what it was like, what was the name of it. It was called crisp. And I had a matching tee shirt with like the masthead on it with like a drawing of women smoking a cigarette that I still have my brother while I was digging around in his stuff secretly. So I used to wear my t shirt, I would make the Zine. And I mean, I had like a little crew of like writers up my school, and you know, like essays poetry like music or is all the classic like teen Zine stuff, and then I would go. So this is really a precursor to the ninety nine you magazine that you made sure Lee is you had staff students working for you. This is incredible. No, it's pretty funny because so I I would print it out. And then I would my dad would take me to work, and I would make copies of that. And then we went my parents helped me we've like staple them together when I would wear my little shirt, and I would like pass them out at school. And then I had a good friend. Actually, we had a falling out. And then he started a warring Zine. The name of that. I think it was current. I think it's called spitting image actually these naming. And then he tried to steal some of my writers very nine. Oh, two hundred. Virginia. No, no, no. This was by this time. I was living outside of Houston, Texas. And clearly we're now now what were you hoping to do at that point in your life? What were you envisioning your future might be? What did you want to be as you got older? I don't know. I mean, I think always, you know, been a voracious reader since I don't, you know, since I learned how to read basically, I read every night before bed, generally speaking, and I've done that since I was probably nine or ten so reading writing, and then obviously kind of visine publishing as always sort of been in the mix, and I think as I've gotten older, it's really not even so much about writing per se as just like disseminating ideas, you know, thinking about things and digesting them, and then trying to sort of disseminate ideas, and I think really just give people some war context that provides some sort of comfort to them after high school you into Boston University where you studied French and American literature and screenwriting you graduated in nineteen ninety nine we planning on becoming a filmmaker. I definitely did. And. Still do have screenwriting editions. I have ever since then been writing screenplays on the side is done everything else that program, I actually like snuck into so I was undergrad, but I somehow finagled my way into the MFA screenwriting program. So I was able to just one. Finagle their way into different program. I don't will. It wasn't different. It was just like so I just got to take the main writing class like the actual MFA students had to do all this other stuff. But I just took the two it was like two years of one year long writing classes, you write a feature film. And then you write a feature adaptation, and I was in this weird honors program. That's a bit like the gallatin program at NYU, you got to kind of design your own major. So I think I don't know I talked to, you know, the head of the program, and I was like I really wanna take the screenwriting class. Like, what do you think? And then I talked to the professor, and I don't know, maybe I smooth talk to or something like that. But anyway, yeah, that's been an ongoing theme for me. So I learned have like notebooks notebooks of screenplays. And I am working right now actually short film with a friend of mine who is also the person who shot the videos for this course, that I just opened registration for and we have been good friends and sort of talking about working on. In various film projects for years and years and years. So yeah, you intern at MIT press, and from what I understand that impacted your view of the then current state of publishing is that. Correct. Well, so I worked at two different places at MIT. I worked at the MIT press, and like very junior role and at that time they actually had some of the best design book design that was happening. I don't know if you remember kind of that period during the time mural Cooper was there. Probably I wasn't old enough to like know anyone's name of who is doing the cool stuff. But I would imagine Sal, unlike zone books and some stuff like that. But so I was there, and then I actually worked at this separate office called the publishing services bureau, which was you'll actually find really interesting. It was an office that was specifically set up to help all of the different departments of MIT like unify their branding because people were doing completely. Terrible and ugly and mismatching stuff. And so it was this sort of like special design ops type of unit, but that led to my first job at an interactive web design firm would kind of lead me into the online space, and that that place that I worked at this small that was when it was called interactive design back in the day that was actually in this place in Maynard Massachusetts told mill outside of Boston where a lot of the pre dot bomb companies like monster dot com had set up shop. And so we were working in the space, and I got laid off actually when the dot bomb happened, and in this space like all these companies were going under and you just started see like discarded office, furniture and stuff, and it got kinda grim. But so that really got me into the the sort of online space, which was pretty I think formative after you were laid off you moved to New York City. Where you began volunteering for the cultural website flavor pill in its early days. Now from what I understand volunteering means. You a working for free. How did you find them in? What did you think about working there for free? We'll so that I found them through. It was my previous boss at this interactive design firm, you know, she was like we're still really close friends just sort of like want to lay me off. They like cried when they laid me off. And anyway, so we stayed in touch. And she was like, oh, I know this I got this Email newsletter flavor pellets. Awesome. Like, you should check it out. And I was trying I was doing like freelance copy writing, and, you know, stuff of that nature and just kind of trying to figure out what I was doing in New York. So I think I just got in touch with them. And they were like, yeah, we could use some help. And I mean, it was just these two guys. And it was just like very improvisational. I think kind of at that point. Yes. Voluntarily a couple of hours for free. It wasn't like, you know, slave labor or something like that. But then eventually evolved into. To me being their first fulltime employees and for people who don't have context flavor pill still exists at that time. It was kind of part of this sort of like new rise of Email, newsletters, that was also at the time that like daily candy was really popular. And so this kind of dating and exactly that kind of wave of disseminating information, and they were kind of like a super curated sort of like, you know, time out type of cultural listings after that experience. I understand you went west to work for a music website. But things didn't go exactly as planned. And you said this about the experience after five years, I got offered a job in LA to make a not so cool music website. Really cool. I was offered more salary than I'd ever made it sounded like a great plan. But it turned out not to be what I hit anticipated. What what? Wrong. Well, so I had been working at flavor pilfer think about five years on and so two gone from one employee me to about thirty. I think I was managing a team of twenty five people with a global editor by the time you left. I was the global editor who quite a title. You know, it was one of the things we were kind of like, I think I've done everything I can do here. And it's time to move on. And the CEO of this company artists direct at the time, which was a sprawling music website. But like very like not good looking, you know, kind of like I love what you've done with flavor pill. You know, I want to overhaul this website. And I was like great. And I think because the foam can action I was like moving to LA like kind of into it like, let's check it out. But what happened was that, you know, the rest of the crew was like not on board with the CEO's plan to overhaul the site. You know, it was just one of those situations, and it was like a very corporate. It wasn't big. But it was a very corporate feeling company. And then the guy the the one guy I was working for who wasn't directly. This wasn't the CEO. I think quit two months after I got there something the guy who I did like. And so it was just one of those things where you know, you kind of get one presentation of what's going to happen. And then you get in there. And you're like, oh, this is completely different. But it was great because I was only there for ten months, and then I ended up quitting. And I ended up moving back to New York because I was very lonely in L A and was also in a relationship with someone in New York. But I'm really glad that I did it because I learned a couple of things which were one that I didn't like working in a corporate environment that I really liked working and either on my own or in a startup environment like environments where you have a lot of autonomy and a lot of freedom to just you know, mixed off and put it out there. And no one's trying to kind of like, you don't have to checkered sessions through you know, big chain of people and also that doing work that was meaningful to me with so much more important than making money. And it wasn't even like that much money that I was making. There was just like more money than I'd ever made before. So, you know, those two pieces of information of about thirty at the time that was incredibly valuable to have just learned that and, you know, ten months is in a very long time to like learn this very important lesson about you know, that kind of guides the rest of your career. So I think the definitely a failure on one level. But I mean, that's what's great about failing is it's very informational, especially when you're young I left my very first job which actually liked to great deal. But was intimidated by the people that were better than me. I was making very little money. It was really hard to live. I got a job, and this is back in the early eighties for ten thousand dollars more than I was making which essentially doubling my salary, and it wasn't a good job. It was good money for me. But I knew even before I got there that I'd. Made a mistake. And I remember the last day at my that that first job, and I remember going home back to my apartment my fourth floor tenement walkup going into my bedroom. Getting into my bed fully clothed, pulling the blankets over my head and crying because I knew I had made a bad decision. And I had and it was a year of being miserable in this job that I hated there is something to be said for a balance between making enough money to survive and having some semblance of happiness with whatever it is you're doing, but you don't learn that to later you came back to New York and met Scott Belsky, tell us you hit it off right off the bed. Scott was putting together this site called behinds and to take us back to that experience. Take us back to the beginnings of this sort of John Lennon, Paul McCartney esque type relationship. Well, when I met Scott, it would have been two thousand eight Behan was well underway. That point I think it was founded in two thousand six and I met Scott because I've actually helping I was back in New York, and I was like doing some aditorial consulting again kind of like okay figuring out. My next move type of thing in front of mine and asked me to interview Scott. And so I took him up on and we really hit it off and some stuff happened in between, but cut to a couple months later, and it turned out that Scott had gotten the book deal for his first book making ideas happen. And I was at the time gas what working on a screenplay, and I was like I'm having trouble finishing the screenplay. Like, maybe if a work on the spoke with this guy about like making ideas happen like learn some stuff that's going to help me finish this. I had at that point, you know, a sort of extensive background in editing and publishing as well. And so Scott. Is like here like CEO of a startup that's eating up all of his time. But he also has to get together this book manuscript in and do it for the first time in part of it was a lot of interviews. So he asked me to kind of come on sort of a kind of like a show runner, you know, helping him like coordinate. The interviews, and you know, just sounding board like kind of first line of defense editor to like keep them on track. The book came out at degrade. And we were kind of like, okay. What are we gonna like we really like working together? Like what's going to happen now? And before we got to that point. I think the book released in April of two thousand nine beheads how the I ninety nine you conference which was and it was actually called ninety nine percent right until tell us why it was based on the Thomas Edison, quote genius is one percent inspiration and ninety nine percent, perspiration. And it was really about kind of pushing back on this idea. You know, there's tons of kind of information and conferences and talks around creative. Vity, but they were all really focused on inspiration. Right. And the idea was you know, what like having ideas is not the hard part. You know, follow bizzare, easy exactly following through on. Those ideas is like the thing that we all struggle with right? And so the conference was really about that idea. Like, let's get people to talk about the hard stuff. Let's get them to talk about the like nitty gritty stuff that they don't usually talk about not the sort of Pat story of overnight success. And so I tended the first conference, and I did some sessions with Scott which were around like the book and stuff like that. It was originally put together by Jerry Chow. Who later started the peace conference and Michael Carr. Jennifer corn. Who later founded skill share Michael was at Behan Jerry was like doing her own thing. But came on just for the conference anyway, long story short Michael ended up moving on from began soon after that the conference in really resonated with people in me got we're kind of wrapping up our book projects. And so I was consulting with editorial league because we decided basically that we wanted to spin ninety nine you off into like a larger brand the percentage went to you for university. Will there that's later? I'll tell you, okay. Jumping ahead. But yeah, so we decided, you know, to kind of spin it out into a larger brand that was actually this thing called the BI Han's magazine, which was inside Behan, which was sort of this nascent almost ninety nine you. But so anyway, Michael ended up leaving. And then we were developing this bigger project, and Scott was like, do you want to come on and lead it, and so, you know, basically came on to lead the website is we built the website into this resource interviews articles tips later, the videos from the conference, and then the conference and then later, you know, book series that I did and the switch to ninety nine you actually happened. It would have been. I'm not sure what year it was two thousand ten or twenty eleven was when Occupy Wall street happened. And so basically our brand got occupied. We're literally we have these giant ninety nine nine and a percent that we used to put on stage at the conference. We're literally like packing them up to carry them to go to the conference, which we would have been like April or mayor of each year. We had an office on Broadway. And so hold that time. And there was actually an Occupy Wall street March that happens, so we're like carrying are ninety nine percents. There's literally people on the street below chanting. We are the ninety nine percent. And it was like, okay. We have a branding problem. Like, we're gonna do something about this. And so then later became ninety nine you because it was kind of like, well, this is you know, it's sort of been taken away from us. This is this is the people's brand. Now now is it true that when you realize you working for a how to website you became horrified? Well, not how to is certain point. I was like oh my God. I I run a self help website. But then the the next thought was, but it helps people so there's no way for me to say that I'm not in the sort of self helps base so to speak, but I really strongly sort of don't identify with the mood of a lot of everything in the realm of south help. I don't even really like the phrase south help. But I do think that people need help. It's interesting because it's self help. But it's not help that. You're you're providing yourself you're getting it from someone else. It doesn't really work as a precise precisely. But I think my problem with the space is that the thing that's so messed up about so much of the self help advice that we read that we just sort of soak up all around us is that it makes you feel bad about yourself. It doesn't make you feel good about yourself. It makes you feel like you're not doing enough. It makes you feel like you have to work harder. You have to you could be optimizing your productivity. He says, you know, or you should be hustling or side hustling, you have to hustle during the day. Now, you have to side, exactly. And you know, all this stuff. It's very like is very this like aggressive this Taipei this over achieving type of mentality, and it just creates a lot of anxiety. Right. It doesn't help. It doesn't help you feel better about. Anything it just makes you feel worse about yourself. And I really don't want to create anything that does that, you know. So it's it's really about kind of trying to provide stuff that's useful to people, but that has a very different. I think mood and flavor to so there, you are you are running the conference and the magazine and the website, and you're writing bestselling books and spearheading all sorts of brilliance, and this is what you have written. I was intoxicated with my own productivity. I got wildly ambitious and decided to three times my workload. Adding multiple massive new projects of my own devising to an already intensive work schedule by the end of that year. I had produced a shit ton of incredible things. But I was burnt out husks of a person you'd get home from work have a beer order food than watch. Netflix repeat, you're neglecting, your girlfriend and your friends Dawson. My question is this. How did? Did you make this realization that you were burnt out and needed to do something about it? When you're in that mode of overproduction, it's incredibly hard to see anything objectively. We'll so to give a little back story on that. So that was twenty thirteen and I was at ninety nine you. And we were at the point where there are a couple of things happening. We had decided to expand the conference. So we took it from about four hundred people to the time Senator by thousands people at Lincoln center, so, you know, more than double the size, huge, venue, etc. Etc. And then also that year I decided to add on another event, which was the single the pop up school, which was really fun three day event. But that we produced on twice as fast as the conference on half the budget. And then that was also the year that I began publishing this book series that I made and we actually published two of the books in the first six months one book to coincide with the first conference and the second book to coincide with the pop up school and you've published books before. So you know, that you know. Publishing. A book alone is like a huge push. So anyway, all these things are happening. And I think as the it was about two weeks out from the second book publishing and doing this other event. And I remember calling my brother on the phone, and I think I just started. I just started weeping. And if you're in this overworked state, sometimes you cry I think just like for release. It's not because like anything's particularly upsetting or maybe you're anxious. But it's literally just a form of release in the same way. That laughter is. And he was like what how can I help you and it was like semi packet. I just went get like something good in the mail. And so he sent me this package. It was one of those beautiful things I've ever received at had this image that he had made my brother's an artist. And it was this little postcard. Well, he hadn't made the image. It was a print out of this image from zipper skied point, the Antognoni movie, the one in the desert where the pickup truck is on fire, and there's this huge plume of smoke. And then there's sort of like, you know, hot woman with like long hair just like standing like looking at the blaze then on the back. It said it was a little note from him. And it said I've created this machine. It's like a new art project. And what happens is you like feed in some information about you. And then it feeds out an image that like is your feature, and like this is the image. I got well. And then he gave me a deck of tarot cards. And I was like looking at that. And I was like I really think I do want to set everything on fire. Like that sounds like a really good idea. And so I think you know, kind of having that like moment where you're like. Wow. I could just look like I could just light all this on fire. It would feel really good. It's kind of like what does that? What does that mean? Well, what did it mean? Because you did try to cut back. I did try to cut back. But I want to finish one part of the story, which is funny, which is that I was also like an what's who's this woman with long hair? And at this time, I very short hair. Now, we are five years later, I have long hair. And I think I lit it on fire. So it was you. But if a good brother, I have a brother, so what changed was the? Yeah. Well, will you cut back a bid you didn't you didn't cut back everything right away? He didn't just burn it down. I didn't just burn it down. No. I mean, a couple of things happens that was also the year. So the end of that year be hands was acquired by Dobie. Just of course, you know, significantly larger company that works at a very different pace and begins really like maintained its kind of autonomy in the start up culture. But you know, it was sort of an also an opportunity to slow down a little bit. I just said like, I'm not gonna you know, not gonna take on this level of things anymore. And also, you know, this this book series and stuff like I'd already gotten through this kind of a wave, or at least most of a wave of like things that I had that I had committed to you know, it's not about getting rid of things. It's about examining. How many things you're saying? Yes to and how many things you're taking on. On. And I ended up staying up behinds for probably there for maybe a year and a half after that or so, but then I ended up leaving and just kind of you know, finally sort of going out on my own not going to another job. And I think that period was really when I served began like kind of reflecting and thinking about okay, like, how am I gonna rebuild myself and my life and my career in a way that is going to be essentially more sustainable and not going to get to the state in the future room. Like, I late everything on fire. You wrote this about the six months after I began trying to slow down for six months after I slow down. I woke up with a strange buzzing sensation my body throwing with energy stuck in a rhythm after years of overwork. My body was continuing to release the excess amount of adrenaline that. They had previously needed to get through the day. It became clear that I needed to do more than just work less head. To rehabilitate, my mind and body and shed years of bullshit and bad habits. So take you thirty months to get over this at which point you went to an acupuncturist, you saw therapist a trainer a life. Coach osaman Iraqi Hiller. From all the things that you did to try to get back to yourself, can you identify one that you feel was the most crucial. Yeah. Well, so I I went to see the shaman. It was two thousand fourteen and I went on. And I want us good journey, but just in like a one on one setting and this was a little bit before it's become increasingly popular, Michael Polin room. You know bestselling book about that'll do it. Right. But so it was a little bit more. Like, what am I getting into you know, at that? At that point. Because I didn't know I there was one person who I had met who had recommended this person to me and said, okay. This is a good person. Like, I had great experienced. You know, go do this. I went to see her. And the interesting thing was, you know, many people go journeys many people have different experiences. People envisions, you know, some people go flying through space my experience was that afterwards. I didn't have any anxiety for about three weeks. It was just like what is that? Like, it's mazing. I can't imagine. It's absolutely incredible. And. What? And so it came back. I'd like to have an anxiety free. Our right. It's it's amazing. And so it came back eventually three weeks later. But what was so transformative about that experience was it? It just allowed me to recognize that the exile was something separate for me that wasn't part of my identity. Like, I thought that I was an anxious person. Like, I thought that was part of my dentistry. And so I realized that it wasn't part of my done at it was a layer that I myself was adding, you know, like an ingredient that I was adding into the recipe or maybe a byproduct of the ingredients that I was like stirring into my life. Then, you know, the kind of subsequent time after that just became a, you know, in it's something I'm still doing kind of thinking about okay? How can I get back to that place and a new, but knowing that it is possible to get back to that place? You know, and. Yeah. I mean, I think just having really incredible to have those moments where you know, you just it's not that you like don't have worries, but it's just that they sort of pop up and you're like, well, you know, I can't do anything about that. Or you know, we'll do this about that. And then you just kind of move on, you know, and you're not cycling. Well, worry is such an interesting thing because it really doesn't do anything other than distract you from what you can't control. We're when you quit this big job where you doing so much the books the conference, the website, the magazine, we you scare did you think who am I without this work? I wasn't scared. I'm always like excited to do the next thing. Like, I'm always very like no regrets. Let's move forward. But what was really challenging? And I think this is challenging anytime. You move on from any, you know, it was very deeply identified with that job. You know, I got to do a lot of incredible things got to create a lot of incredible things. I worked with an amazing group of people. Right. And so all of that was all that structure was gone. All this relationships were gone early. You know, still know some of those people that you know, what I'm saying. But I think what is so hard is figuring out. It takes a while to separate what you want from what that old you wanted. You know? So I would say it took me at least a year or two to kind of pull apart those threads into say, oh, this is part of me that still has this. It's like almost like this some momentum from the old job. Right. Like, these were the ideas, and the, you know, ambitions, and the focus that I happen this job, and it, and it has some mental that has to run out. You can't stop it. Right. And so you kind of have to let that momentum spool out, and then you can kind of get in there and be like, okay. Like, this is something like that used to be part of that job. But maybe it wasn't something that I personally aspire to or interested in kind of pull those threads apart and start to really figure that out. But I think that's a long that's a long process when you left did you have a sense of what was you've wanted to do next. Or was it going to be something where you will go into allow sort of the universe or your own intentions to manifest slowly? I think the time I wanted to write a book about. Careers. I have this whole like massive thing mapped out and kept trying to do it. And then I was like I don't like I just couldn't get into it. Even though like intellectually, I was like I'm going to do this. And so the book that I wrote about E mail, which is still funny to me that I wrote a book about Email, actually, I wrote it as just sort of like an exercise like I was like, well, you know, have some stuff to say about this like let me just I'm just gonna like like doing scales or something. I was like let me just get into. This is a very good book for our listeners. It's called unsubscribe actually have some questions about the book that this might be a good time. Yeah. No. It is a good book. But it's very specific. Right. And I tend to like to have a much broader lens than that book sort of represents. But it's interesting like, I, you know, I still say like, oh, it's kind of funny that I wrote that book, but what that book did for me was that many many things one of them was it got me to do more public speaking and to become comfortable with public speaking. Which was. You know to become comfortable with public speaking as a really magical and wonderful thing, very useful in life. Also removes a lot of anxiety from things in it also helped me connect with a lot of a lot of people who would become helpful kind of later on or play a role later on in my life. So I think it's kind of never know what's gonna come out of these things unsubscribe takes on the age of distraction by focusing on Email, and as you told one interviewer, what do we do as creative? People living in a world that seems increasingly designed to sabotage the focus necessary to produce great work. How did we get here as creative people? So completely over dependent on technology. Well, I think specifically when you're talking about creative people one of the things that makes us creative is something that I read this really funny study that had a good term for it. It was called leaky attention. And basically what that means is often not being fully focused, but being a little bit permeable right to what's going on around you. Right. And that's how you know, you notice that little thing maybe that someone else would notice or you get that little hit of inspiration. Right. But it's it's as idea of are also, even if you talk about it in terms of the big five personality traits society of openness right being open to things coming in. But we're really in this in this moment where this idea of openness is deeply problematic for getting any work done. Right. And you know, obviously, you know, track it back specifically to things like. The open plan office. But I think we live in this moment where we have so many different technologies that are pulling us in different directions. And also the just allow so many people access to us. Right. And so if you're in this open state is deeply problematic. I think about it the sort of metaphor that I like to use is thinking about having a physical self and a digital self right? And so you have this physical self, which is you know, you and your body and you have twenty four hours in a day. And you know, you have hard kind of limits your time and your physical energy. But now, we have this digital self right in this digital self is basically like, let's look at it like a collection of inboxes, right? Your Email inbox in your Lincoln, boxer Twitter, dams and your Instagram messages and all of these things, right? And those in boxes have an infinite capacity. I never like Email units like. Debbie's busy like daddy. Can't take on any more like an bounces back to me. Right. That doesn't happen. It's just infinite it goes on forever. Right. And so that's what's so problematic about the digital spaces it assumes like an infinite capacity. And so that really has shifted the onus of the responsibility of setting boundaries on to us, and I think setting boundaries and saying no is difficult for anyone. But I think it's in direct conflict with some of the things that make you a really good creative person, which is this openness, right? And so I think a lot of people who are in that space find it incredibly difficult to make a practice of setting boundaries and to make a practice of setting. No. But which is something that really is just a requirement of existing in the world today, if you actually want to stay focused on the things that matter you combating these issues seem to dovetail perfectly into. The need for the new class that you've just launched its called reset a lot of successful writers often say that they wrote the book that they wanted to read for this project. Did you invent the course that you wish had been around to help you when you needed it? You know, I wouldn't. I mean, maybe. I wouldn't put it that way. But yes, I mean, so I think going back to what I was saying earlier right about this idea of kind of self help industry, and even a lot of the advice that we receive being very kind of toxic. I think that the the kind of whole idea around reset was I was super conscious in everything I did an in particularly in the language to make it feel like there's nothing wrong with you. Right. It's not there's anything wrong with you. It's just that you maybe need to actually it's all about kind of getting back into yourself and getting back in touch with your body. I think technology really pulls us out of our bodies. And so really like kind of getting back into your body. Understanding what the natural rhythms of your energy are. So that you can learn how to align your work with that. And also, it's a lot about like context. So some of the stuff that I'm. Talking about now. Like, I feel like it's such a comfort to people in such a help to understand like, oh, this is what the context is. Right. Like, the rise of remote working like the sort of collapse of any type of hierarchy, right? This idea that I can completely work for myself. Okay. Great. That's amazing. That's empowering. But would it also means is like the onus of responsibility of managing everything is like on you now. Right. Like, you don't have a manager to help you. You don't have a very structured work environment. You know, you don't have these boundaries that used to be created for you. Right. Which is liberating. But it also means that then you have to learn how to set those boundaries. And if you're a person who has a problem with boundaries or saying, no, right? You're doomed when I think an and I think that like people just feel like it's a personal shortcoming. But when you can kind of provide some context and say, no, no, no, this is happening to all of us, and like here, this is why it's happening to us. All of us. And okay, like, here's how we can think about it. And then here's some strategies we use because a lot of what happens with so much of the advice that we get is. It's out of context is just like an it's sort of like, okay. If you like process your Email this way, like that's going to solve all your problems and sorta like well for like, how does this fit into the big picture? You know? Yeah. Also, the Email is a microcosm of all the problems. We have with any addictive technologic precisely precisely. Yeah. That was actually what I said about unsubscribe is like, that's why Email is interesting to me because if you can master your relationship with Email, you know, those skills extend to to everything else. But so I totally didn't answer your question about reset, really. Well, why did you decide to to make this class in the first place? What what gave you the motivation to do this? We'll so I think you know, when I was talking about right when I left ninety nine you and pulling out those threads like what matters to me. And what matters, you know, what was just part of that job. But when I was, you know, in that job, all I was doing was interview. Doing people and writing about and studying like what makes creative people productive, and what helps them build incredible careers inside this incredible. Like font of you know, just sort of knowledge and research from doing all of that work. And so that was kind of a ninety nine UP's. But then I also had this journey that I had gone on right to like recover from burn out and integrate these other layers, I think of like sort of consciousness and thinking about being present and thinking about being more on your body. And also just thinking about like this idea of. Taking a much more gentle sort of forgiving attitude towards ourselves. And how we think about our productivity, and how that actually freeze things up and helps you kind of let go of anxiety and helps you actually kind of move through your day and much more calm and confident and also productive manner. And so it was really like figuring out. Okay. How do we use these things? How do I take all the stuff? That's literally like core research about what makes people productive. And then how do I take the stuff about like, okay? How do we like figure out how to not be anxious? And how do we figure out how to be more present? And how do we figure out how to be back in our bodies? And then take those two things and fuse them together into something. That was like, okay. How do we how do we really do this? Like we live in a world where? Yeah, we want to be creative. And we want to be productive. But also, we don't wanna go insane. You know, and we don't want to burn out. And so that was really like, okay. Let's pull these. Strands together and create something that's going to help people be able to make that transformation than I made. Do you feel that creative? People are more apt to burn out than other types of disciplines. I don't know that I would say they're more apt to burn out. But I think they're more apt to have problems setting boundaries. So maybe by the you know, as an extension of that that might sort of be sort of a natural byproduct. You've said that slowing down makes you more productive. It's not what people want to hear. But it's true. Can you elaborate on how that works? Well, it's what my entire podcast is about. So we might need like six hundred hours you something to do it. I think what it is is that when you are constantly speeding along, right? When you're constantly in this rush. A couple of different things happen you become incredibly reactive. Right. And so when you become incredibly reactive what happens is you begin to be controlled by other people's priorities. Right. All of these emails and tax and things that we were talking about. They're just they're going to keep coming into your life. Right. What happens when you slow down is that you're able to pull back, right? And you're able to see the big picture, and you're able to think about your priorities, and then you're able to act and make decisions based on those priorities when you are going fast, and you're constantly kind of over busy you end up having a kind of tunnel vision. And this is really great book called scarcity that they talk about the Sen. it's. These two researchers, and they looked at two things actually they looked at money scarcity, and they looked at times scarcity, and when you're living in a state of constant time, scarcity or money scarcity, but time scarcity is probably more relevant to most people listening you get into this state of tunnel vision. And what happens is it makes you less forward thinking it makes you less controlled and makes you less insightful. Because you're just all you can do is react, right? All you can do is think about the next thing. But if you think about the skills that you need to be a good creative. Right. You need to be forward thinking you need to be able to be controlled. So that you can kind of manage what you need to do. Right. And obviously you need to be insightful. Right. And so all those are all the things they get peeled away. When you're kind of zooming forward and just taking things on taking things off, and you know, reacting and reacting and reacting there's so many things. One can talk about in this context. But I think that's the biggest one is that you just really get into this tunnel vision reactive mode. And you know, guess what? Here you are technology is happy to tell you what to do with your time. But like, do you want someone else to tell you what to do with your time or do you wanna tell yourself? What to do? You know? Do you want to set the priorities from cultural anthropological point of view? When did you see busy as a badge come to? Figure into the way we see the notion of how we spend our time. I mean, I think I feel like there was probably a moment about like some are between ten and five and ten years ago that I think we were really, and I think it was that first rush right of the smartphone of technology. Right. The smartphone is the thing that changed everything. Right. This idea that then your work could follow you around. Right. That's absolutely changed. Everything about the way that we work in the way that we feel you know, because we have this thing that can kind of always bring everyone else into our lives. So I feel like it was really like a couple of years after we got smartphones. You know, you're kinda intoxicated. Like, this is amazing. You know, like, I literally remember when I was at flavor Paul watching the video introduction for the first iphone, you know, and they're like going in tapping things and zooming and we were like well. This is amazing. You know? So I think we got to this point where we were like. Yeah. This busy as good like. Yeah. And then I think we're really arriving at that point. Now where we're like is busy good. Like, I think maybe I'm a little too busy. You know? I frequently ask people when I give talks who feels like they work, really hard. You know, raise your hand. Almost everyone never really raises her hand say, okay. How many of you could keep working at this pace for the next five ten years all the hands? Go down almost no maybe one or two, you know, like really over Jeevan types when keep their hand up. And I think we're all feeling that, you know, we're starting to get to that, you know, moment, you know, in like the movie sequence where it's kind of like. Wait. Okay. Wait is this working like what's going on? You know, you start to kind of like rewind and start to think about like reframing things a little bit. And I think we're at that moment where we're like. Okay. I know I can't sustain this. But like people don't know what to do, you know, because it's also like this is how we live. This is how we live in. And this is who we've become and we're so immersed in that speed that t- to change that or shift added in any way, seems terrifying in October two thousand seventeen you launched your podcast. Hurry, slowly, you've done thirty seven episodes to date in one episode. You posed a question that I've been obsessed with ever since you ask who were you without the doing, and I've been thinking about that ever since hell long. Did it take you to find out? And how would you answer that question? So this question came from the shaman who I referred to earlier. Right. That was actually on that. I subsequently for years later went back to see her this summer. So on the on the occasional my forty first birthday. But the first time that I seen her when I had that feeling of no anxiety. She had asked me who are you without the doing? And I was like what are you talking about like? What and probably similar to your reaction about it. And then I I why we did not get to an answer. Like, I was just like, I don't know. But it stuck with me. But by the time that I went back to see her for years later. I had forgotten about this question. And I was like oh here. She is with it again. But this time we were actually able to get to the answer. And it's interesting because a lot of people have listened to that episode, and they're kind of have the same reaction. They're kind of like a God. I don't know and says there are two things that she told me to kind of that we're able to help me think about it the I was thinking about like, okay. If you weren't, you know, Debbie Melman with all of your career trappings, like if you you know, were a bus driver. You were a lawyer you were a waitress in a diner. Like, what's the thing? That would be you know, kind of the essence that you would bring like it didn't doesn't matter. What you do like wherever you were. Right. Any type of job? So that's one way to think about it. And the other thing is just thinking about like. He know yourself as as a small child right as this kind of untouched being right and someone who doesn't have him, visions, right? Like someone who's not trying to achieve anything yet. Like if you can picture yourself. Hopefully, there was a moment in life. You know, where you were in that state where you weren't like just thinking about what you wanted to achieve you know? And what was super productivity is worse for value. Yeah. What was your essence than you know, who were you? And as we were doing this exercise. I'd like very clear picture like I had a specific image of the specific photo that I have of myself, and I was like looking at that person and like thinking about that little person. So my answer ended up being lighthearted like that. That was kind of my thing that I bring and you, and I know each other, and you know, you know, that sort of like being I think playful and kind of poking, but like trying to like also like I think bring. Something to light. You know is kind of a core sort of quality of mine in any kind of situation. And yeah, so that was that was where I ended up with which like felt like the right thing for me. But it's something different for everyone in what's interesting is when people. Have followed up with me, I've gotten a number of emails and conversation with people about it. They all seem scared about what they'll find. Well, then it forces you to potentially consider alternative ways of being right? But my thought is that what you'll find is actually something quite beautiful that it's peeling away those layers of kind of anxiety and Bishen, and man and just finding that like little core. You know, that was like what you were like when you were like four five, and you were like that open care free trusting little person. So reset is four weeks you breakdown how to reclaim your intention in week. One had a reclaim your energy and week to had to reclaim your boundaries in week three and how to reclaim your ideas in week four. Does it help a person understand who they are without all the doing? Well, part of the program of reset the the core part is these video lessons, right, especially twelve video lessons, but they're also accompanied by these meditations for anyone who the course opened yesterday in for anyone who signed up, actually, they just got the first meditation today, and the meditations are really the piece of it. That's actually about kind of like opening up space the first meditation, for instance, is actually a lot about self talk. So how do you talk to yourself in your head? And I give some people some sort of specific prompts and things to think about like are you talking to yourself in this way? Like, you know, could you maybe think about you know, just observe that? And maybe, you know, think about this because I think the so much of this doing in this idea of cheating and this pressure that we put on ourselves. It comes from that internal voice, right? There's like this. I think for some of us. There's almost like. Kind of hectoring. Not enough. I'm not good enough. Right. And so it's so those meditations are very much about, you know, they're not explicitly about self talk all of them the first one is. But it's it's about kind of starting to think about and observe how you are internally driving yourself, and how you're framing things the distinction that I make and go back to what I was talking about earlier with a lot of the sort of productivity advice that we receive. It's all like action oriented, right? So it's like things you can do or how to do something to get more done. Right. And I cover that. In recently. We talk about actions when you talk about like, how to align your energy with the natural rhythms of your body, for instance, or how to align your attention with you actually say that productivity is really about what you don't do it. That's like a complete revelation. Innings still thinking that. But what I was going to say is you have this one piece which is actions, and that's what almost everything that we intake focused on. But then there's also mindset, right and mindset is to actions or how you do your work. In mindset is how you frame your work, and how you frame your work impacts your mood, it impacts, your motivation in an impacts how you feel, but we never talk about that part the mindset part. And so a lot of reset in particular, some of the meditations or about like how to really shift that mindset because right? It's really a matter of perspective. Can you examples of of how you can reframe that? Well, so one thing that I've been doing recently is thinking about how much in my head. I say you need to do this right in your head constantly. Okay. Got I need to do this by Friday. I need to do this. And this this I need to need to I need to I need to write. And every time I do that. That I try to think about okay like how could I rephrase like in? It's like, right. It's it's not like, I'm in control. It's like there's a second hardy here. He's like you need to do this. Right. Which is like, then I'm like, okay. Like, I guess I'll do it. Right. And it's very like anxiety producing type of relationship at type of self talk. So I think about how can I reframe this? So that I'm owning this thing is there way that I could reframe this. So that actually want to do the thing or if I really can't reframe it like, can I let it go. Or should. I be saying no to the thing or how you know. And so that's just like a tiny shift like every time us curious self saying, I need to do this think about okay, we're like how can I rephrase that? So that I'm actually owning that thought, and as something that I want to do, and that starts to make you really conscious of the things you really don't want to do. And it also starts making conscious of like a more gentle way of framing things. So that you can actually get into it. You know, and it might be that. Like, you know, to give a very practical example, like let's say, I was editing something, and when I'm editing when I'm like, I need to edit this. I'm like going to do it onscreen on my computer, and I'm going to be hunched over it and feel kind of physically gross and wake up and like a zombie state. You know, a couple of hours later like pick my head up. But if I like print it out, and, you know, grab a pan, and I go like sit on my sofa, and I put like some music on and I'm still doing the editing. But like I'm in this like totally different modality where I'm like. Yeah. Like, I'm kind of into doing this. Now, you know, it has just framing right? It's just like, oh, I decided to do it this way not that way. And this is the thing that makes me really enjoy the process. Whereas if I'd done this other way, it wouldn't have enjoy the process at all. Because I think we're so focused on these outcomes in these achievements that we forget about the process, but the processes ninety nine percent of it. Right. And if you don't enjoy the process, and you're just kind of you're not really, you know, there's so much more that you could be doing to really be enjoying the work that you're making. Eve said that when you're working on something you ponder hell, you want your audience to feel is there. A single universal feeling that you want people to take away from reset comfort. I think comfort in their own skin comfort in their own world view. You know, it's funny because I think when people sign up for it. They're probably not like that's what I'm gonna take it from this is sort of a funny thing, I think, yes. Comfort in their own skin. But I think also like comfort like, okay? Like, I understand why felt compelled to work this way. And I also like I can see like, I see you know, what happened with technology. I see what happened with society. Like, I see why I was working in that way. But because now I see why that happened. I can see this other avenue over here that I can also take and it's like, oh my God. Like, I could make a right turn. I could take this exit off the highway and like be driving, you know, on the scenic route on the superhighway than I'm on right now. You know? And so just to have that feeling that you have more options, and that you have more control, and that there's a different way of doing things, and I think all of that adds up to a feeling of really deep comfort. Hopefully, just me have one last question for you that I can't imagine that you're not expecting at the end of your podcast. Hurry, slowly US every guests to set of questions among them this one. How do you define creativity in ten words or less? So, you know, I have to ask you Jocelyn, heavy you define creativity in ten words or less. I'm actually and I'm just saying Mr. totally own up to where I got this answer. This is an answer that someone gave me which I think is amazing who gave it to you Kim chambers. Okay. The amazing marathon swimmer. It's just self expression. Joscelyn K glomming, thank you for helping us make better sense of our time in this crazy world and thank you for joining today onto towbar. You can find out more about Jocelyn cake lion. J K glide that spill G L E dot com. You can listen to her Pence had curry slowly dot co boron tunes, and you can register for reset at reset, hyphen course dot com. This is the fourteenth year. I've been doing design matters. And like did thank you for listening. And remember we can talk about making a difference. We can make a difference or we can do both. I'm Debbie millman. And I look forward to talking with you again soon. For more information about design matters or to subscribe your newsletter. Go to Debbie millman dot com. If you love this podcast, please consider contributing to our drip, Kickstarter community members. Get early access to the podcast transcripts of every interview. Invitations to live interviews QNA sessions with guests and a brand new annual magazine, you can learn more about this at D dot rip slash Debbie slash millman. That's d dot rip slash Debbie dash millman. And if you really like this podcast, please write a review in the I tunes store and linked to the podcast on social media. Design matters is produced by Curtis FOX productions the show is published exclusively by design observer dot com and recorded that the school of visual arts masters in branding program in New York City, the editor in chief of design matters media is accurate Pettit. And the art director is Emily. Wiley, generous support for design matters media is provided by adobe XT and. Knicks dot com.

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1865: Jocelyn The Scammer

The Black Guy Who Tips Podcast

2:16:32 hr | 2 years ago

1865: Jocelyn The Scammer

"I listened to the black guy who tips cast because rive and care in our hot thought, I came up he'd on the dick cubic as guy inches as we want to put like a tree it guy. Lease on the shit, bang bang this pussy t kief with the day clown under dignity. Ten feet ladder. Timothy, I love the d that's my favorite letter. My news and your phone taking up your data data. My cakes Scott fat or by using comb as the batter. Hey, welcome to the blackout tells podcast your host rod air care. What the hell is that? I listen to goose that sound like, okay, she sound like it to be go hard on their. Yes. I like that sound goose. Yes. By girl cupcake with two ks. But I don't agree. On the three guy leaves on the thing. Keith climbing, donate meters. I loved the flavor. Picking up you'll get that usually come down to your Telhami won't disappoint the punishment. If you missed the dick appointment copy. Copy only call you take. One eighty. Dick. This covered. Either take cover. Like, those wait, you can take a cruise on your neck 'till legal bruise. So that's song. That's great workout music. This don't ride I liked it. How across it to be out here on title. Just like seeing what is saying, you know. Let me click on this and see what is this look interesting 'cause I click random thing. You know, what I'm saying mostly veal having a lot of trap music recommended to me. I mean, I do a lot of trap music automakers end up in jail. So I got a bad track record trap music this y bien group. Yeah. That are niggers of I actually liked them. Do wanna end up in hospital. Right. It's like what? The man y'all. Stay safe. I was like wait now and disappointed me to even notice on a lie. They sounded so convincing and then to see him in the hospital yoked up like no, they took his chain too. So like you can't even pretend that it's not a slap in the face. You all now, he's straight like they took your chain and Amy kill you, Dale and bragging divided on the internet. Right. Like, you said that you let the chocolate Spurs got to chain back though. I saw that today. I'm saying dignity back though. Right. And also like Jay prints got the chain back. So it's really like your daddy. Got. Not no visit him young, man. I hope they okay, man. I really think the street vows things overrated Nate, they shouldn't, you know. I hope they stay safe anywhere nine out here prison, but at the same time, it's like ham, man, they actually chain back guy because they just felt bad for you or something anyway. And now think he'd wonderful with either. Now, apparently, not everybody always tried to downplay the slow roll like all maybe he is wonderful. But it don't seem like I want everything stopped. He or the p hang out with the ones, and I know that can be the same. I mean, it's not it's the same. Just do it matter. Don't might have. I know you don't out and nobody goes on respect him. And at the end of the day. That's all fucking. It's like if you was a killer. But did you respect me, then I'm the Killa to right? This what I'm saying? They don't even matter to me like I just know not the folk with that do because apparently things get done do by why wait to why wait to find out. Is what I'm saying? But actually you bitch. You'll man the ones don't kill me. Exactly. That's right. Do. Witness. We you seem to be holding pain in video, right? Like you. I'm just glad be I randomly accused the people. They didn't do. Don't know saying negative. Can't get you text. Filling like everybody bothering, right? Like if he really read like you have a notice killers like that don't be on like, Twitter and Facebook and shit. No. They don't be like like going out to everybody for everything. Like, I heard this Nicotera crews got a problem I pick and choose their battles. You know, you just disappear. Like didn't. We'll know what happened. You just won't no longer exists. No, no. Definitely seemed to be putting it out there. That is a problem. If I if some things don't happen. This definitely going to be a problem. So I mean, you know, which is have to have to battle. Anyway, there's a blackout you can find us on Stitcher. Paramedics to blackout was five star reviews. The official web another show is an unofficial sport. But about bullet ball extreme today's podcast actually brought to you by t public dot com. T public dot com. Make a fine all kinds of stuff t shirts, gear mugs. No books sweaters. New shirts Atta hoodie, and we have a new design out our desire. You may have seen it as the show art for yesterday. Y'all want hitting on put it on T shirt. And I wanted to wait until they announced that everything was on sale, and it's actually a better sale than normal. They now have thirteen dollars t shirts on the site on the sale is only for the next like three or four days. So if you listen to. On my voice right now. You know, you've been willing to get one today the twentieth. 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And you guys know we love to do that. We have just in here who is still a faithful fan or the Walking Dead at all this time before we get into the recap. Just and what you've been thinking about this season just in general, so far I overall still seasons this show. People that don't like it. Don't watch what's wrong with you. You've improved this season from last season. You still about the same. I guess still good. I enjoy last season. So I guess too. I'm one of those people who came to it late because I didn't enjoy the first few episodes when it came out. And then I ended up binge-watching it, and they didn't change what they were doing. Right. Kind of remained consistent is just the I finally caught on to what they were doing. And they and they do the thing that I enjoy about most shows is that they take time to try to tell you a story and don't rush it. And if you can dig that that you can get with this show, and they do this thing. I like what other shows, and you're not talking about on the show is good always disappear because they run out of deals, right? Well, this is a show that they have time to take their time. So yeah, I enjoy a full store is not rushed. And I enjoyed it. So that means I can get more and more of your really been enjoying this season. That's one of my favorite seasons. Actually, which is weird because I wouldn't have thought that. Before you know, like nowadays. It's like there to be like shit ain't good. No more. Whatever y'all try, you know, but it's actually been better to me than the last three or four seasons. And I think it's because they switched that show runner. Right. And she's just been murdering like she's like, she sped up the pace just a little bit as she stopped being redundant on certain things. And then certain things got gamble was doing. She's not doing this. So far this season. I don't know if you realize we haven't had one episode of that like hour and a half extended Walking Dead like everything is just like our our five minutes, and those up souls to just be a bunch of fucking commercials right on the whole time and not Miller the instead of doing some two times like shows the audience like, oh, they're trapped. There's no way out. They'll be like no do it three times. So they really know they trap him. Like, we didn't need to see that third time. Nothing changed and they they hadn't teased us with. Any like would did this person down the show, which they did they used they used to do a lot of it. They well after Glenn they started doing a little bit more. Like we'll they weren't today who arrive is he day. They don't do that anymore at all learn from that lesson like they be like they like at the end even with Rick ended episode as I know he alive. Oh, you ain't gotta worry about it. All sees. He's alive. You just don't know where he's at. All right. Well, cool. Sounds like just enjoy the care. I know you've been we talk every week about it. But I know you want to chime in. Yes, I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed this season a lot. I think this particular episode one of my favorite episodes of the season, particularly the last two seasons and something else to piggyback on a conversation. Y'all been having something else. I enjoy that. The new show runner is doing a lot of shit happened offscreen. So somebody has the decision to make or somebody has constantly they bring it up should happen offscreen, and we'll be come back onscreen. It's resolved the decision is made everybody doing what the fuck they won't to. I don't have to episodes of being drawn out. And and people I in and and longshots staring in each other faces, and and and just a lot of filler a lot of the filler is glum, which is what I really liked, and I think that the pace of the stories has increased like eight moves. Quicker. And I am okay. Within moving this pace. I think before it was before last season. It was they had points. Let's get to this point or let's get to this place. And then instead a writing a story line to actually smoothly transition new there. It was okay, rented episodes. We got twenty seven episodes. Let's do a of with Michelle Rick going and doing nothing, but it don't move to you you wasted my time. This is not moving anything along. And I think prior to prior to the past two seasons. They did a lot of that in my opinion, which for a lot of people I could see them. Stop watts. Stop watching the show because like, okay, you got ten episodes unit. Bring up Tina Tina will have it a split it and you got three or four episodes of nothing moving. And so for me this season has this past Tuesday have been the best 'cause they stopped at full of Bush. It we moving along we telling. You too because I think people have questions, and I don't have to wait as long for the questions because some of the questions they act as the now in the past we wouldn't had to wait to next season to get some of the answers that I know we're going to tell you this season. So question do do they have different people that direct each episode, but they have the same writers. No, they change writers and directors all the time. So I think maybe that's what's keeping it fresh to this like, well, we gotta keep this thing moving because this is the thing I want to with this so get out. And so maybe that's what helps keep it fresh and move along. Because this is what I wanted from true blood, and and the true blue started out really strong. And then they messed it up by doing too. I don't know what happened to trueblue why they couldn't sustain it. Because they have all like, this is this is the show about ambi- true. But was a show about vampires where like e could let you imagine fairies anything. And they had unlimited potential. They messed it up and it passed just and they've had different. The different writes a lot of this was show runner. Like the person that actually makes the decision in order to shows go like desk, the person that kinda did extent did that slow moving stuff before. Because you do have different writers before, but you have a different slow a show one. Or so that's the person is cut. This out. Speed is not gonna cover this shit. Ain't then. Like the kind of chopping a lot of of the shows somebody said in a chat that the last two are like directed by black women. And then the last episode was co written Bob black on myself. I mean, according to on DVD sorry. So I mean to be to the Wiki. That's right. So maybe that's what it is. Nicole Brown episode why she a real fan. I'm surprised even as a Walker surprised. They hadn't had been like guess true. Also prize? Maybe maybe too much. All right. Let's get into this week's recap. Cash have a funky ass remix issue. Right. Put your hair. Killing Nissan like migos. Add lives and shit. I know I'll take the wreath. But yes, so it's upper so fourteen of season nine it's called scars directed by Millicent Shelton written by Corey read and Vivian see TSE. And it went down in the raises four point five seven. But you know, you can't really know is good until you watch it because it start up lack woman. Of course, also it was back in the number one trending topic on Sunday night, which has been for years. So I don't know what that means. I like once again Twitter versus real life baffles. The fuck outta me. Maybe they got they got a lot of silent watchers. Maybe like me like I'm just watching and join, but yeah. But I mean, I'm talking about Twitter though, like so these people that know, how many people technically the rating say watched it, you know, and then we have Twitter, which is everybody talking about it slum house number one trend I'll say night, but also at the same time it was like lower rated than the week before. I have no fucking idea. What what it means? The black people. Why? It was almost shown maybe that's what routine, but we didn't know she was going to be on that tissue on their true. And also, I in my opinion, I think because of what happened and the way to happened. It kind of made it trend could people to all my gosh, what has happened. It was like, well, what are y'all talking about? Actually, probably made them jump on the hashtag to find out what they were talking about people people do watch show that thing is even though the ratings kind of go up and down me and talked about it people are still tarring this so game of thrones. Ain't there. So it is number one. Because game of thrones is so people are still watch or to take a while you have to download it. Correct. So I'm saying people watched it live live tweeted to the number one hash because you said record it numbers don't show. All right, right. The Nilsson his lower the hashtag was higher. I don't know. So I'm not I'm not trying to solve the mystery. I'm just saying it's interesting. We don't we don't. Have to come up with the solution right here to why was that way? We don't really people talking about it. I'm glad people talking about it. But when I looked at the raiders, I thought it was going to be like, oh jump because it was it was not just I guess the people that watched it talked about it more. Anyway. So we have only two things talk about Alexandria in the past. Okay. Fuck them kids or at Alexandria in the future. Then the present. I think what I'm gonna do is pass. I just because it relates back to the present. Because as moments you can't talk about in the president without confronting what he did in the past, correct? So opens we get a cold opening of a montage of machine searching the riverbank looking for Rick size. Rick that 'cause we know last time we saw him he fell into the river at the division blew up, and then he got helicopter. Oh, yeah. The bridge will he got helicoptered out. But you know, Michelle know that so she's looking for this. Fuck it, and it's obvious washed up on the beach and she's killing them. And she's also. Like they show like it's overtime. Like, I she's out there. She looks normal. Then they show a later. She's like very pregnant like she'll Chelsea Clinton out there. The Muslim rally gut full Rick. Yeah. Gut fuller. I wonder if she knew she was pregnant. We're by Rick when he got blown up at that. Bree. I don't think she knew. Okay. Yeah. 'cause they don't really explicitly show it as she. She never tells him, you know, they just pull the goalie. I guess she's like leave it in. So she finds a over rested gun and a dirt. And it's Rick's going. And then she takes us saying good and cleans it off and put it in a box for Judah. But before she does that she had to go to her built for awhile because she was going back to the river as she was caring reeks. I think it was just more of a science. She was like growing accustomed to the fact that she wasn't going to find him, and it was time to move on. So virtually we see our base and put it in a box of Judith. And one time she kills kinda look like, Rick when when she turned it over it wasn't Rick. So at that point. I'm like, oh, she's really just searching for closure at this point. Like, she like this. He's hoping to find the ambi-. That is Rick to kill it and realize what I know. What happened right? Oh, would you say because you know, it went from hopefully, he's alive to probably did. And which will make sense because his Rick, and he ain't came back to come to our vendor yet, you're thinking survivor, eight months, six months later have a long she was pregnant right back while now these days, so yeah, she's out there by self and then Darryl comes out of the woods. And they have a little conversation about him. Maybe coming back to Alexandria. He's like, nah. The also says you kinda pregnant to be out here. So you ain't gonna be out here long. It's gonna be me by myself. And she was like, yeah. But you're going to be okay being alone. And he said yes in the asked her what she going to be. Okay. She said, I'm not. And I thought that was poignant because it reminded me of win the prison black. They fought the governor in the prison, basically blew up and Michelle try to go it on her own again. She tied them zombies. Tour was walking. And then she couldn't take it. And she ended up she cutting out Carl and Rick and shake. She killed autumn zombies. I love episode almost shown basically 'cause this is the only the second time they've done it yet. And they both was about her and some white woman. That don't wanna listen and just want to do. And thank they know this and want to do this one wasn't about the white woman. You know, at the end they made it about you. Okay. That's not a woman. But yes. Out girl. Aren't they all white women? Though, all of the same attitude stars stars earlier today at speak tour managers. So then Michelle retires home, and finds that there's some kids who need help in Alexandria. And they add the gate, and she also were like one of them's injured in grown, ask her friend Jocelyn who she recognized. She's I just. Joscelyn's like, hey, girl. Hey, Jocelyn this play Baga routine, a Wesley who was on true, blood and queens sugar bay as we call it. You know, what media when I saw her. I was like so they couldn't find a role, but let me Daniels. Right. As one is another extra on this episode too. Busy on the hundred they'd be like, she got time. Come on one. One crew can handle this week or two right? So yeah, it was it was cool in retainer. They're like I recognize that mmediately acting school. Bad way. Diet is Nick. A little like when whenever they do those those act out scenes and CPR training. Gotta be hurt. I can't feel my home. But as soon as Michelle. Shoot. That is the wrong one. I mean, it was like this. Yeah. Know official black girl come rotary songs of they see. She was like, oh, they could come in which we know what about security, I security. What about the three questions? What questions right? No question. It remind you the person how you see your homeboy at McDonald's. Oh, I know. We get me today children's we're getting big Macs right show, right here you at the door the calls. I know we getting their free tonight. I know we gin extra apple pie. This is Charles before at meal. So she led him in let Jocelyn. Oh, man. And only way this could have been better as much as I love Tina Wesley. I will admit it. They could've cast is better. If it would have been Johnson leaned her. No be letting living. Bisher still alone on the beach. Probably Demet now as anybody your hair. They can you know, give me some of that. What about you look able I'll about Pasa pass. I know you can come pray over this pussy. So there. She led them in and they started taking care of the injuries of her. But she Jocelyn so fucked up, but she's she won't laid out. She won't like just let them take care of her in the firm. She starts stumbling out like I got I gotta go. They need me in Charlotte grabs about shows like who needs. You was do you need as she's like, they need me. The kids is like tell me what you need our help. Now ever minds me of when you were talking to few weeks ago about the little kid that went out on his own trying to save somebody. Everybody was Henry everybody was against hammer. Just I got this. That's my show was going regardless whether the antibodies her and that she was going to get kids. That's another example like you talked about like how to show they all go out and do what they feel like doing. I mean, I group is I group man. I think one of the things interesting about it is between watching the audience react to the group. The audience is so conservative in scared that they don't believe in competence of our group at this point because model goin- is nobody knows who they fucking with. When they can what I group our group. Don't look as dangerous as other groups. They are more dangerous. They survive way. More bitcoin hearts, Carole, go here. Oh, no problem light Henry is one thing. Henry got their got himself tracked and beat up or not as oh you have to worry about her getting found and cracked up side ahead in the middle of nowhere. Like, you're not gonna have that problem. I mean, you say that we have the rest of the show. I mean, I mean under normal circumstances. Okay. Well, Henry doesn't normally get tired of and beat up. Is it just happens every once in a while care? No on what you on that. Okay. Well, he showed little stick out the after the lessons occurs. Right. You got to also be crazy to will the power of the Stig. Also, you wanna learn from bullshitting for out of our crazy if I'm allowed to use a stick. I wanna learn from the clear clear, we'll take care everything. Are you learning to to? I dunno more. I know all I know is clear had it had it. Popping. Okay. We're more a bakery. Was back every time when it's move as as you could go like he will take care anybody. Anything moving him during the civil rights era. He was on that net turn away. He was killed him off. I guess he was like the babies he'll clear who really should've been Dr green book. Are you paying it to all your shows? Jesus that fried chicken though. So they end up. Like going out to look in this location for these kids that Jocelyn and group is like responsible for some of the kids that came with a little older like teens. So the teens went with Michelle and a big crew from Alexandra. And they're like, oh, yeah, we used to hide in this building. So the rest of the kids might be in here. And then one of the kids jumped up of it and the white I mean, Jean was all like points for dexterity. That's very innovative, my friend and all this shit as the kid like opened the door inside they found diagrams to like skin and kill. Not just deer. Rabbit was. And. Inside. They find the kids and the kids all come out. And later, we see the kids like around a camp fire back at Alexandria. To say, they're roasting all kinds of food because apparently us kids we? They do a little light chairs another coin. Yup. Come with through. Oh lie. Oh, this is this what this is like people will be like, why would you trust these kids? He starting cage. You don't know they everybody else gives over the fact they came with deer and rabbit like it's hard to turn. It's like shit man hungry. We have live. You'll see a lot of meat plant. But here's right. Who's not trust in a group will the kids? I mean, unless they wearing hoodies. Right. These kids didn't fit the description that description. They're very multicultural keys. They were not hit thugging the of khakis on pants pulled up all the way, no sagging. So the kids are sitting around a campfire and roasting animals and playing the silent game like the quiet game shit and gay is having with him and all this stuff. And it's like a cool moment and airman Shona actually looking at the group. And they're like man, I I was Rick was here to seat is because Rick would love to see this establish the inside again and these kids getting to be kids and areas. Like, yeah, I'm sure he's thinks he's looking down wherever he is. And masonic what? And he was like, oh, I didn't mean to like that. I like, I'm not trying to say, he did, you know that she said, it's okay. And there she goes into the kitchen and Jocelyn in like doing dishes shit. And that's when I realize some time must've passed. Mhm ally. Whatever happened Tom was passed enough for Jocelyn to be like in the kids to be ingratiated into the community. You know, because if I felt like it was out of same night. Obviously it wasn't. Okay. So then at the Jocelyn and Michelle talk of Michelle was like Joscelyn's, like, well, you know, you're going to keep going out there looking for your man and showers. I why would you say that she's like I could see that look in your face. It's like we was in college, and you had to petition to get some shit done, and they signed a petition, and blah, blah, blah. And you didn't give up on finding me. And that was at the fifteen years and Michelle is like I'm just so glad to have you here because we been through some real shit. You know, like, my momma died and. You know, like college and stuff in like seeing you at all this time. You know, it's just gives me hope so more time passes in one morning, Massoni, all the payers Alexandria. Because apparently her house was sleepover house are going to Joscelyn's house because apparently her houses sleepover house, they was up early to get kids. Now, I know a lot of parents lie to drop their kids off on that day care. Stay tonight. They don't be over the first thing in one and you'd be having them down. Right. But I think you get your kids. Called ongoing about it. Right off our joke, actually like yoki. Okay. Right. Why is this in Zepa, right? There was like we need to get our kids. And maybe it is different. You won't get kid earliest possible. Thank you wanna break 'cause you spend so much time trying to hover over them. Violence peace one of to zombie. Eat. Everybody is like, maybe we should just go ahead and get them. Now. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's wait, you know. So they go get the babies go to get the babies, they go in the house and nobody's did babies are all gone everybody on the kids have been abducted in plain sight. Yes, they have. They go check the pantry looking for the kids. The pantry is empty is foot. All the food all the food go and outside somebody got killed. We don't know who this dude is let's walked up on them. Yeah. I love this gamble. Okay. Fancher? I said, okay. No new for is no for his either. All right Jocelyn this Scammell. That's your favorite could never right. Right. And then after they see he got stabbed ahead. I see footprint on those push prince of the tiny. Bloodies footprints and they were leaning towards the sewer. About the thing is a king hand lift us or. So no Jocelyn or maybe a couple of teams got together lifted the sewer great and slid the fuck up in there, and oh, no. We can't tell you about it. So. That day going with the with the kids like, you know, of course, like that means you go there only is like we going after them and all I was little surprised though. 'cause Darryl Michelle go by themselves. And I was kind of expecting it to be like more people from the town because it is kids to they say pregnant black woman and Errol they say head of security top-flight cop. Okay. No. Waas Endo the people they all those people look like they had left the gate year. And I think that them leaving. They was like, oh, this is something that we can do this. This is going to be something where we're going gonna eat a lot of people to help us like we go get the kids to come right back child. And that's very nice. But of a motherfucker kit kidding all the kids in the town. I'll be suspicious of any of the parents. It's like y'all Hanley. I'll be good. I'm gonna stay here because these green, especially when they showed up I wanted y'all y'all see like tight, there's some kids that might want. Not wanna see my pregnant asked. I ate by myself. I'm not saying she can't go. Well, how you going to say about her? That's it. She didn't wait for them to get dressed. Maybe maybe shoes. Imagine be like I need to get dressed. Right behind you. Michelle, daryl. It gets all last always leading the black woman. Do all the guy they read it. You don't have to get ready. They buy turned around him already going. Falem shown Darrow. Stay ready. I mean, she's like you said he is the head of security. So they would that's the job. So then. She talked to Darrow because you need to take a break you out here mad pregnant, and we buy sells like man pregnant like I see you helping from like she she put a mega shame. I see is about to burst. I'm like, you ain't got twin Rix up being you. Just showed the flight of women. Even you know, she don't get to relax inn while pregnant like the other one she even an ugly was renting the little town. But you know, the other thing too much show might have feel obligated to be like, no, we're going to go get her because I'm the one that invited her into detail. She was kinda my responded. Everybody else. Go get your little friend and children, which I still don't understand. But okay. Y'all trying to make it make sense. But it's never gonna make sense. I can't be straight this from a man who has kids that he don't take. I don't have any kids. So just go put that out there. But yeah. So one time I just in a mall with his family. This is me. I'm not gonna put your busy. One of my other families. So then they sit down to take a break. And then she explains how close that Jocelyn and she were back like. Right reporters E pack as she's also like. I let my guard down because I wanted my best. I wanted my friend bag, you know, in, you know, because of that I let her slide on without asking three questions of checking out the group, you know, back. I forgot to mention back during the campfire scene. Jocelyn said the only they didn't have any adults that made it in their group only kids right as she said because adults just break and Michelle let us live which in hindsight shows choose kicking myself 'cause Judy was missing issues. I don't even know fucking thin. They just break. I've been with a dose to Hosie park. You don't just all those don't just break in the kids. Make it. Correct. She broke right. So Michelle's domes across a kid called a PJ and Pete got got them night. Turned around like oh Vigia, June ran off. I wanna talk to you PJ. Let's let's beat it. I'm out of here. You're that's the one thing too. When that happened. I sit shown you you never act off emotion like this. What the fuck are you doing doesn't? They it was all emotions because her whole thing for leaving Judith lie. She's like I'm going to get her back. No matter what. And one thing about any emergencies. You let a pocket populist happen. The most dangerous people are people with your new. They will fuck you up over them. Got them kids. Rick eater, nigga neck out come home doing a whole damn commercial while ago say I think that was heard responding like that. And I'm like what you doing? That's the first time we see her genuine like here for Judah OC really does love the show because prior to that. We'd never really saw her. Would you like this always babysitting? That's not true. She's rare Jude if we see her sitting down like we think lips are spending time with Judah, you can spend time with them. But to be like, a lose your mind because they going. Yes. I I didn't think that of her out by just keeping his other Negga kid. He he died. No, I guess I'll the doctor. I got older see we're about we watching the same show because I, you know, over the time even was small I've seen her spend time, we've Judah redid you to, you know, take you about the I mean, we must be two separate show. So I guess maybe I've been filled the parent enrolls because she let do to hang out with Neagh and all the time. She's never around like you see her one or two times. It's like the weekend that babysit is. He is. And then be like what about all day? Then everybody just raising Yuki you I mean, this kinda why just and his my problematic lease phase. Because like this. I disagree 'cause responsibility increased to say it for me. I was the first time I recognized her being like, oh, she really cares about this child because she lost like all normally her reasonable since kicking in. And she's like she's more diplomatic which he didn't. Ran in like, yeah. I mean, I'm cared on. This is actually, but yeah, that's the first time you notice what can I say? Okay. Okay. Because I say we're not watching the same show 'cause I seen her. It's been many times with her and and around her and talking to her and like they have shown Kanda over the years, the the relationship so and you have to tune in the only issue trying to get Judith, which is her only connection with Rick because calls dead you have her thinking. Okay. I really hope my best friend didn't as runoff with these children. You know, even though that's the reality of. And I think she knows us the reality of it. But she also has that blind already knew because he said it went Jocelyn once sought a footprint. I don't think those kids for prince Joscelyn for France. Okay. Because she said, oh, no Jocelyn charts. What have you done? Okay. She knew it could only house missing. What I mean, technically, it could have been killed Jocelyn in Iran off or something like that Jocelyn somehow getting kidnap she knew from the footprints right away. Like Jocelyn killed their man. Okay. Okay. Like, she got my baby. Okay. I thought when the keys they do. The na na na from the the way she was talking during the footprints, but this is our spot in PJ. PJ grandma Madejski. Hey, put that down. 'fridgerator? Gut down. What's you pay? Have you got at this? Now choose. Pita PJ got got got forty three four point four forty. Darrelle comes in behind. I was wondering why the foot Darus late. He was out tracking something, I guess. Oh, no. Basically, they get inside. They get into a hallway and children all standing there shit lily looking like children going right with knives. Michelle trying to negotiate with him. Now did love the way they shot this scene because they showed it from Daryl's perspective where he walked into the hallway and just like he was apprised the see Michelle confronted with a wall of children, right? So. Where my kids drop. Tell me. What are the kids shoot use the aero to shoot Darryl in the shoulder because they know how to hit didn't hear Tim deer who owed ask kid. Yeah. That's the one. I don't like the tween. He likes seven-team. He barely made the cut for the kids like jostling right to kill him. So like what happens when the kids get to old? This are Kelly. Let them go kill them. I don't understand. So then the. Mcdonnell is knocked out by one of the kids, and they wake up tied to a pipe in a room. What our gagged and the children are branding them. I'll legit thought they was gonna skin skin them because you know, the last time, and they showed group tied up. They was getting cut up but the net. Remember that was getting on here bashing the net cut, and they was going to be fed to the group that was eating people terminus terminus. So I'll probably not the last time I grew in Totta. But I just like what this. So I thought it was I thought this is what they was about to do like oh. They couldn't live in society because they really had to eat regular food and go to school new kid really hated school. That's an interesting way to take that skidding the I guess we did see the skinning the deer diagrams. So maybe we just didn't see skimming humans diagram. Yeah. I practice deer. And then we do pregnant black women next, Daryl. I mean that is how size goes in Americans not hard to lean at any right Todd up. They wake up and the kids are embarrassed trying to loosen themselves from the ropes. The whole time. Yeah. Because these kids obviously can't tie too tight. And they don't know the DALE'S like, look, I fully living Disney his name could. But it takes time to work itself free, correct? Take a hot iron from the fire like you, Brandon the cow, right? This the wish out classes like Zepa. I hope not Joscelyn's overseeing all this strong. Oh, man. There gets brand. I got your wife beat on steel, man. Yes, somebody Joe has with five hundred degree hot, Mitzi. How cool you're going to be. Stressing does have any time to look and. Two children are capable of anything. You can tell the truth. Was scared like the Chadha was directing Mitchell. Dron? I don't know that they were scared. She was directing the kids. They were. I seem more indoctrinated like a coat then they scared of her. Okay. It was just like she's crazy. And she runs the group. So she's like, we brand people we kill people. We like, you know, this is what we do. So she's talking to Michelle whose mouth is tied up. Help them become because they can't be soft. Not. Not like. She says where is she? And indicates go to brave Michelle. Here's the thing. I kept thinking, oh, what are the rules for Jocelyn? Like doesn't McDonnell Taylor. We have a child inside of her or she likes. So well that she's like, listen, I believe in late term abortions. Like, I'm I'm basically like the nightmare. Donald Trump is from in about abortion, Jocelyn, light, loosen. The baby is borrowed show. Fuck you got a bunch of bikers your babies her group already. She's she got white babies like she's just like babies making the model. I'm just apprised. She wouldn't be like, well, let's. Yeah. Why not let the let Michelle carry the baby to term if it was all about making the baby's providers e pack the way that we came. And I think that she got these children from actually going like killing their parents in. But I did children his mind now, which also which also was weird to me because it's like like I do keep wondering what a fuck are these kids from that? None of them are like, this is crazy. You know what I mean? Like, we're like what our parents all ready dead. And she just been like taking offers some she's been going everybody town kidnapping the kids like what age are the case. He's kidnapping how come none of 'em. Miss home than my sad today. Mom years gone like is wild. I mean, I guess it's so much turnover here parents in Zepa 'cause tending Judy van got her birthday or she by Jocelyn and show the same person. Oh, mommy. Mom, cut her hair different. Well, anyway, mom, what we know. Now, are we hang out with kids all day and bringing the people start early they all look alike. Control. Don't let it control you. They they branded a pregnant lady he got too much joy added. It. The one that did the brand the hill that thing on just a little too long. So and that lane those cars they had on their back that we have seen like early into season. You see see like shown dare take off their shirts. And you see like these marks on their backs and also plans to episode was titled scars it should have been called brands though to come on. Okay. Scars. But what I think one of the things I was interested in about that is. What is stars that can undermine what the fuck? Do you do when it's kids 'cause I'm going to this point is like killing another doubt for being ads on z pack during shit like you that can crazy. You gotta go with kids like Kate. I just go I killed seventeen kids. And it's okay, right. If I wanna kill these little because right now, they just Brandon me. But is really they fall or that the father doesn't woman brainwash them stuff like that. And it ain't like Curro because Carol has the keyed up into past you know, she's had to make this this hard decision. She AAC hitter. Yeah. Book Decatur, right? I'm saying seventeen kids, caring. I'll think picking up putting down here. I'm saying one crazy kid. Okay. I get Carol spend a lot of time working with the kids. Everything. Enrolled spores out Lizzy own light Lizzy kill me, an in Lizzy had to go. Like it wasn't. It wasn't like she was like I'm gonna kill this kid. Michelle to me. I'm like, I just can't think way out of the situation where these kids get. I'm like now, you might have to kill. So anyway, they Sean wakes up at the brand and she passed out Daryl's already await he choking out kid home tying him up. And that would make you pass out the kid. Listen, I got some candy pocket. You can't go ahead and tell them on stand Darrow trick the kid, oh he had to take decade walked up on him. And Dale puck nobody's feed itself. Or my guess is. There was loosening. We saw him loosening. The roads though. So he just got loose and he their kid. Yup. We saw at work in his hands. Like Angela king is doing so fucking good this year like the other. So like before this. I feel like that would have been a five minute seen him figuring out how to get his hands out of this shit this when they just showed us like they're all his Batman. He started working get loose ten minutes ago. So we cut ten minutes in the future, y'all know, we don't gotta show. You got losing knock. This little forgo side hit and choked him out. We just saw Michelle awake. He already over to do like crooked. And then he wakes gives Michelle lose gives her pipe. And it was like we gotta go find the kids more screen time. You can keep stuff moving. Yeah. So they go to look for the kids and split up basically Ambra show has a metal pipe of weapon. And. Girl Jocelyn goals for Cobra commander because they walk in the hallway she's like spread out. Let's let's more of them might be more Comey as then they masala. She's like they both blues get him. And then she's like a the kids like have entire plan for this. She's like two other kids lead them out of the school. Lock the school which they did with a chain lot. They did they fire drills. Right. Come on kids are. Okay. She was like, okay, keys getting permission. Right. It was like, okay. And then she had two of the kids that was. Two of the kids that was what her one had Michelle sword. And I had a knife was I all right, y'all attack her and she was like I'm going to get away. Does he ran away? Damn the fucking sue villain. Sign a new toys and was like have it like the kid's name was lying. This was this other thing too when she ran away. I said what how she survived as long. She came fight in Zepa US point have to kill somebody. Right. And you saying look he is do your dirty work. Why are you running? Like, it wasn't like she checked on the kids. We like hope my kids. Okay. She was like no do hits me. One goodbye. Like, I hope you have hail hydra. His dollars like damn what brainwash in Vern glass. Army of kids would be doping z pack. If you was leading the army because eighteen stupid, the no better for, you know, saying like an adult my ask you a question. Right. Wait. Why would we do that we might keel, but the kids just gonna be like she say run through our wall? But yeah, it was real bad. So yes, she runs off and leave the kids to fight Michelle. And this is a pretty gruesome fight, man. Like the episode had already been trying enough. But. This fight will was out the hook. I'll try to fast forward to it. That's Darrell choking out that kid, by the way. Yeah. Okay. Chuck it out the kid. Well, let me get to the hallway fight. What Jocelyn day? Around here is. Yeah. Had them blow. Whistle everything they blew the whistle qualified drill. Jazz Malysz thick and the kids on her kids. She's better off you live in the past chasing a ghost Judas with me. Payers feels. Juta is running out here. Like, they was having fun. Hafer? Mommy goes through real, right? Tell me doing who told you to do it. That's what happened. Update doesn't have with Jocelyn. Sees why are you take my kids to like the demons told me to do it? Okay. So then we had this intense fight with two kids. You know, what's next? Chill. Cure more. Marcotte kill kill. I'm mark. Apparently that brand councils the Mark now, I don't know why hill the kids didn't just kill them when they don't hung up. My what was the point? But okay. Now for some reason the older dad was not about that life. I don't know what she was way out. Our wait. Listen ready. She got moved by Michelle so easily like he was. So like only give baggage those the thing I liked about it. They made it like, oh, this isn't a fighting the key. Right. Yes. This is what would happen. Why would we why would we concern until we got to they're sick? And. Some show gonna reach down to get her sore. But the thing is is that the feet of the other kid that got knife. Know, it's like, oh, no baby smarter than this doing. So the kid kicked disorder knocked out away with one hand in the on the belly. I mean, this was brutal ever. So I'm like she on miscarry in the middle. I know she had RJ. But I'm like was he a premature baby was like she miscarried in the middle of this hallway. What the fuck is a lot of stress. It made me think she does somebody else to replace right? Like, obviously hooky they make it. But I guess, you know, but females I guess. Live. She made it somehow. But yes, so the kid cut, sir. And then she reaches deep into the depths of Africa to use our primal African American mother scream raid and scare the shit. I didn't white kids and they worked like they had Weber's. She starts creaming. They ran out of the. Rain. She picked up a switch. Obviously the doors lot. So then it gets worse out. So has it go out the side of and what is Darrel during this old? Chilly. They split up action balls taking his time catching up. Doc only hit with a two phone coming down dog. I'll I wouldn't a juice. Jim X Dougie was going on here chainsaw massacres. This everybody was calling TRITON teases caris. Shit on the bet twice with the with the word. Three times. Meanwhile, Massana sees taking all the Alexandrian kids into a trailer. I'll be honest, I had a flashback from fried. I'm with you there. It's like, I don't know why this world star. I don't know. But I was like, ooh. From. Going to be a baby get. So to have them the league that's going to even if action. Yeah, did tariff all tariff all down at the Michelle data in the leg and locking all the two girls tear. Absolutely, so. Yeah. Jocelyn falls noble noble. In what she falls to the ground of Michelle. And of course, finishes the deal and kills Mitch. Just to you today. Black on black crime so much for a reconciliation, you know, conflict resolution Z pot. That's what happened man start trying to take kids. So then she stabs her to death. Yeah. Acting. The trailer. And shown basically is the face. She's like to the rest of the kids like look now. Yeah. I need to stay out of ground, folks. Business on the killed your mama. Yes. He told young come back. I'll be safe stabbed almost in my stomach on pregnant, and you need to go read a book right outta kill my best friend kids is like where you're gonna to get some us to. You can come back out, exactly. We'll take care of you know. Over children the rest of you with me. So I guess he next up because he owed enough. By the way, he immediately got trip when he did this. But Josh would kill all the key is no baby resource. People are resource. Okay. Yeah. I don't even understand why he wanted to kill out of kids like what they do that may have been her playing 'cause she didn't know who was gonna come. Remember? She said I'm sorry had to be used. So she figured out. Somebody would product comforters jewelry. I'll tell you what she said. I'm sorry. I had to be UC, man. I'm sorry. I didn't know it was gonna be you that I stole these kids from and I'm sorry. It was you. But I I still kids. That's what I do baby. So then. I guess he feel like is unlimited kids. I hear he might not know. I don't I don't know. But so she ends up killing all them kids, and we'll get a cool montage of her in the past in the present killings. Armies were hurt in the past killing the kids. So they can so they don't actually show her really like killing the kids always cut away to show like her killing zombie. But it's right where to slice to kill the kid and the internet's a loss day. My listen she killed fuck out kids, though, they give trying to migrant folks business. State out of this. That's what good parenthood with teach. Okay. Go stand in the corner. Pair tend to Jocelyn was doing right. Just just kill everything that you don't like. And teaching manners Judith. So they basically is one key left. And she's li-. And Michelle was like don't like that. Kids job is to go into the trailer. Kill all the Alexandrian kids and Michelle like don't do it. And I'll know just the active sheila's seeing all her other friends get you the girl look here. It was like, you know, what designing worth it. But whatever happened. He ran away. I wonder what made her run away to like 'cause she clearly was down for the suicide pact one. I in my opinion. I understand what Roger was saying about. This is the same is little girl to boy or didn't say, I don't think he's not PJ. I think it was many things. This was the one that she told her to stay strong when she branded Michelle Wright until that's why I think that she was younger like a younger part. So she fought on instructions, but you could kinda tell she was scared, and I don't even think she even killed anybody before. So the thing was like, okay everybody that is dead. Now, I'm not going here. Kiedis kids. I don't always have to strip to. I've never done this before. So I want to kill me some running to these kids she had been playing with two. She like, I'm sure it was even harder for her than maybe that tween. Who was like? Yeah. They just fucking annoying kids. Like, my little brother lows, those might this was somebody. She was playing high go, see quit, right? You know, your parents probably would ahead you in this bath to take pigeons with the, you know, why does she was doing with these kids? I see it being hard to be like Ireland, and hopefully, I know Judah younger, but hopefully Judah kicked back, then that's what it would have been dope. This show her running things she going to do them as you to talk on whatever she do too. We'll for Ayers. Yeah. That would have been different. The do it that way. I I like the way they did it though like the kid runs off and Judah comes outside of the. Outside of trailer. She sees Michelle covered in blood. And there's a moment where it's like a pause, and I can't tell if this was shown thinking Dedaye indoctrinate, you are you crazy to it was Michelle hoping like, I hope you don't understand what's going on. And I just killed all these little kids to save. You thought it was the letter. Yeah. And I thought she also looked like she when she walked away this. She was trying to lie. Don't look, right. Like like, you would when us young and your parents don't want you to see a sex scene. Right. And so then they get back to Alexandria. And all the kids get United reunited with families who didn't go out to get to other show. All okay. She came bleeding from the stomach pregnant with all your kids into is why she can veto shit. And better motherfucker were Daryl showed up latest hail like the cops and every action movie. What happened? I just kill all the kids by myself. We'll never speak this again. Thanks. So that's the end of the past to the present. This should be kinda short, actually. Michelle sees air walking tours her because I think Michelle is worried about the fair. So she seems to be constantly looking out the window monitoring stuff. She didn't go to the fair with everybody. I figured out. She wouldn't go. Yeah. So she leaves out the house tells you to keep playing with the kids and they plan on a bike. And she says. What's going on air? Why are you coming over here? He's like Darryl is at the gate. She's like why you ain't let him in say 'cause he's not alone. She goes as easy company is Henry Connie who thinks she's cool with and then Lydia who she ain't cool which she like what she doing. Right hull. Right. Darryl says Henry's heart you closes. I wouldn't come. We had no other choice Amazon is lie. But what Lydia and Henry Henry says she's with us so quick question. And maybe I missed it. But how does she know Lydia because she went there when they kept you like her face wishy washy there. Head to mask terrorists interrogated there. They was they were down interrogating when she was in jail. Then Shonen them went back over initially. There were also shown a master at the stone was doing. What if fires you on the wild thinking Darrow? Did it once they got back to jail. Yeah. Now, see I was the proc- recognized clean. I thought she would have been like who the hell is this new girl without oh, that's Lydia member week catcher her she. Oh, she show. Okay. Tonight's don't she? Right. She got some new clothes. Okay, girl. I didn't even know you. That's the boost. So yeah, here is like she would us air says we can't trust them songs like. Yeah. But I do trust Darrow y'all could come in. So they I'm like yoed Aaron really switched fast. He went from. Let's all be one to come together as communities, and Jesus we you right? We need a fair. I'm gonna talk to Michelle to my y'all kill Jesus. Fuck everybody. Nobody can come in. I don't know ya. I know three hours when I don't know her. So y'all stay outside like what happened with this? The second buoy don't like is one. And I agree with you network. Just as one of those things where he's like, look I have tried to go out there. I had to hope and every time I hope we get yanked away. That's why I'm a single data right now. I'm good, y'all. Right. You don't want that? Don't like what Michelle they could go to the fair she had to come to him. Like, I'm gonna let him go. And he was like for real because I was shut this Dan, write a single parent. I guess it differs. I. We don't we had went through the, adoption and everything. And now, I'm standing here with the bag alone. No. So they're here gets is the Lydia conference him. He's over there. You know, hurting Michelle's watching it. And so is. A thicker is Paula the savior with the Nick tattoo. Host of real comfortable. And it's like she never was a sell out. She's she over there like van John's, right? Yes. She's like, I all the way. It's like, I never was a democrat. I wanna counseling everything not just on the back. Okay factor. Alexandria. You guys are so good. You don't take enough credit? You really don't. So. Yeah. And it's too because is where Neagle is it. You know what I mean? Like, he's there you in the first one. I wonder how long she try to free me. And I'll do something and note never did. He would never had a Boston. You any light? I was like like fuck perilous. Yeah. You never worked for nobody. You'll be like they did they look I get a check every you think it was the militant face. Did it the first mill face or the segue army after look at Paula like policy? I don't want to be one of these wives. They gotta fuck this nigga. So I'm gonna be killing people form it's just a job because either this fucking. You know, maybe maybe not in the mic text. You know, he like so what you're trying to do trying to get some of this. And he was like, I don't know. Got you say you don't wanna be a Lieutenant. No. So anyway, here we get stitched up and Darryl says the plan is to go to the Canedo matters. They just stopping to get here, and we stitched up, but he knows they can't stay 'cause you know, the whispers will be add to them, and he know Carol he's gotta get care. Yeah. I I I'll be more concerned with Karen was right? We don't get there before the streetlights come down. We have problems going to be hit with us. We didn't see last week. I asked air was where is hitting right this what you don't want. Okay. We saw when they say when she say them from terminus as she put in charge of Henry and watching out for so he's like, we're going into kingdom, necks and. Sounds like that's a good idea. Y'all get out of here. Bye. Bye. Glad they stop mom. They stop in. You know, she was like me at Christmas. I got a movie y'all have a good one. Make it a heavy. Okay. I'm gonna go watch some NFL games. This bar, y'all. Have a good one. Thank you come through. So then Aaron. Onuma michelle. Michelle tales, Laura to keep an eye on Lydia and Connie tells sign language, I would do it again. I would save Lydia again. Amazon was like that's good for you. Keep on living a little girl. Oh, but in because now she knows where at least two of the properties are right at this point. Well, that's the thing. She don't necessarily. I mean, Lydia knows was doesn't necessarily mean a whispers now. But if you don't trust somebody you basically feel like the whisperers. No, right. Like, if I don't trust you, even if you know, really you really aren't talking to them. I still I don't know. Okay. But they do know they seem them go in the whispers. No violets. Andrea. You didn't do the two. He's walking up on the side. When I got there. And they was like we got to alpha. Does it end of the episode and that is kingdom which I just watched episode? Okay. Because you gotta think even 'cause you also know that even if she's not telling them like this the weaknesses that I observe they keep regard here. They're tracking them, and they may show up and be like we killing everybody. 'cause I know my daughter was well, I'm getting that. Ooh. Bad john. I'm sorry. It's okay. It's okay. I'm just I'm just want to get it. Thank you forget. Thank you clever. -cation this. Why I watch it twice because legit like this. 'cause Lord knows. I want these motherfuckers Email to me about no God down. I'll Email yet at Rahm over. So then she then air comes up and says like, basically, we we try stay trail back through the woods, and we cleaned up as much of a pattern. We can't. But you know, they still could find their way here. So we need to get them to fuck out of here. And, you know, Michelle like, of course, like. Nigger? Fuck you dollars on like, he she can go like we problems. And so then we get the scene where? Henriot sitting on a poet and his leg stitched up and hear things Louis kind of growth, there's his leg wound. And then Lydia touches it as like, you know, don't look that bad to me. That's that's when I knew I was like get your as back to world class boy about this life does not for you. Why? Because he thought that was gross. I had living the life of Morgan in the stick. It's going to be a lot more like it yet. If they've me it was just like I thought he was out of his element because he left her dirty ass touches wound. I'm like trying to get reinfected run. Like this. I look. She has I'm juice all line. She touching land touch Oleg. Still learn how to wash their hands properly. Right. I just got introducing soap, what are you doing? Playa. I showering years. This even use the stove where she wanted other people probably nutshell. Russia dish Ray? Why? Dick that whole. Masao came over, and basically Lydia the top that fathers give people that take out. They dot com. You know, it'd be a lot easier. If you just wasn't hit she tried to accept this. And this the second time he walked on. Oh. What does the hand? Yeah. Well, he can't wait for a long time. Well, he registering for her in the woods that black mamas retain win, bro. Try to stay. Hold on. Oh, man. You a kid? You you. You're a kid trying to do that. You're like it's time for her to leave. Like, I got homework. Anyway, you know, how it is baby. But really it's like, I gotta go. Her choice 'cause I'm nice because I show my ads is gonna be a problem a real life. You've made light let me take this bag for you. Take it too low right now with that the mall. It's time for your company to go. Hey. Hey, I got an earlier day on it. And so it's like we both want to leave. Sunday mean I to. Thank you. Now here is thanking her for letting everybody go to the fair. I love Michelle sponsor here. All this. Not all this. If I would have known this. I wouldn't have like you are problematic. Is idaho. Italy better when she was captive ahead. Oh, we're on people hate the week. So look better this whatever y'all say, I don't think this episode. She acted so good. The week felt like our hair doesn't I knew she was in his own down. She acted. And I haven't thought was about how bad is league is another leave actors bringing out what I don't care. To try to put. Cameraman's zoom in. Booted with you to protect place flat cameraman things, I'm not proud of. Things. I'm not proud of forget I calls. I've mentioned that had the suit that one thousand like listen, can you get a different angle. Try to cameraman keep zooming on his own, right? Say over you got the camera annual phone out. Like, why are you double recording the Caesar need to get a new replace Cameron? I'm going I'm in the union. You can't get rid of. Tre people. Risk others. Hasn't been easy. Just what I do. Pace. Easier. The only life. Add to risk was my home. Music. I could just. Walkaway? And take all the risk with. That's somehow can make everyone else say. That wouldn't be so hard. Think about that. That was the kindest version of bitch. Keel sale aren't Jesus Christ shown that was all bloody then walked away that was like miss March. You like this person? They don't like oh. Taking maybe if you just leave and never come back like, it's all everybody's problems. Now, I have met miss mar. So I don't know that she would before to that cold. But it's close. It's right. It's right. I can't say I can't confirm. She wouldn't be that way. Probably like despite a bit too nice all the way to get a better reception as you better have a gift in here. Right. Sear miss Morrow tonight. Why not just kill yourself? Just save everybody. The problems. Why you had to kill your mama too. The disagree with Q not kill mop. Not mom. I don't. Yes. Out of this vertebral voice. For her activists. But is good. Yes. Good to Karen doesn't mean impression like once every three thousand episodes. I know right. Kaby afraid to fail care. Okay. So ties jokes don't work. Sometimes they do. So then and the thing is she should've told her I love his real. Ota better than me. Just right. Now you now you just showing up. No. But then. Yes. Why don't you just kill yourself? And she's like, nah, I'm not, you know, like a okay, Shelley and then. The crew lease Darrell Henry, Lydia and Connie they go they going out of the kingdom and before they leave. There's a small scene with Judith Darrow sit. Now about a water having a conversation. It's a real simple conversation where she basically jittered express she would like to help. And she and Darryl's. I you really don't know like keeping you RJ safe. Your mom is right. That's the that's the main thing we need to do and Judah is like, no it isn't. I mean, not just keeping us safe. But I heard stories by we save is in one and we could do that again. And there's her out of stories like what it cost us and all that stuff. And she says what would my dad do? And then Darryl didn't say that. She said, yeah, that's what I thought. I say God damn this kid is good. Like, that's the part while say this kid is Michelle daughter because my shows a lawyer should be legally putting these negative. He's like these bad situations where they. I can't answer. Like well. You change go to your room. Away where you like disrespected me, right? It's not disrespectful, but it's just the truth which likely because like I'm trying to school you supposed to be a little kid that I can school like, you know. You make you do. I can make all right whichever way. I'll put in the kid's figuring it out. Like, not bullshit. So the Michelle RJ Judah sit down for dinner and Judah satiate hungry wants to go to her room early. And Michelle says. You know? Yeah. You can go to your own put your food go to be. Melts too. When she was like like like when she was twin with food eat it. I was like look such a mom moment. I do my I enjoyed seeing like Liga demaim right there. Like, it's the little things like that. What trying to humanize? The people that we know some song co killed. So they do goes to a room shale goes to bed. She Michelle goes Bache wakes up in the middle of the night, we see scar her back though, she got from the and she goes Judas room says, hey. We used to talk, you know. And the reason she wants to is because I believe her and Darryl had a conversation when Daryl and then were leaving and Darryl toe Tobin show like, you know, Judas not just a kid, right? Like, you gotta talk to her about stuff and Machel's. I just wanted to stay a kid and Darryl's like, but that's that's that's a gym. Not just look you got there of and Judith at that time, this is before dinner and bedtime to was out like at night, waving them goodbye. 'cause she wanna help Amazon's like will. I'm just trying to help her stay a child. So that we don't have to do that. And Darryl told you shown at that time you say you should tell her about shit. We went through back in the day 'cause she don't know McDonald's. Like, nah, she's not just kid is Rick's dollar. Like have. Over the close. It was closer before. So then was shown shown like I say goes to a room at night over the door Judah famous sleep in bed the house before no not once now, I know he was fast and say. Look here that was stupid though. I was thinking about not Judas Nabal when the when she was small I calm myself running away. So I got on my big wheel and rolled down the street. Mom and said, I know you come back I'll way right here to get it. That's not really the sneaking out. The ice Niko. But I call quote, unquote, call muster runaway kind of like, dude if dealer rate, we're about you, Justin. I know you as fast day. I definitely got caught. Everytime. I like how you up right now. Like just magically woke up at this particular everytime. You'll be like man, they can almost be no US me gotta yell like your bedroom. Or what would you doing? I'll both. I have climbed out the window before. And I also tried to be quiet going at the front door which. Worse idea both of them just here. I've never done it. I I was always afraid because I don't know. It's like. Mama's. They just had he sits like something they've spent on housing, right? Just sydell. And be like, oh, some paint. Right. This thing, you know, you get caught well Judah snuck out Amazon's first instinct is not to like run out after whatever. She actually goes to see Negus. Because you know, she knows that you'd have goes down. There Thompson from time to time. We've seen her seat her sneaking down there. She told her not to talk to me. But we heard argument, which is you chain. So why can't he change? So I'm gonna be talking to him and Michelle really couldn't even kinda mandate. Because you know, she's still Rick and lorries and change out the now most any five so I like to speak to your manager and managers needing so I'm gonna go speak to him. So. Yeah. Negus down his sale waiting doing nothing. Really? I mean. That nickel. This is better than getting chased by dollars and three connect- water and throwing up. So I am good in the spiel down arena some Tallahassee coats or some come on to do push bulking up like he'd been. A lot of a lot of muscle way. There's no way if he if he really was imprisoned. He should have been bulking up doing calisthenics. Yeah. Let me get to a leader. How do you ever get to be charged that that work at right? Skip forward to where Neagh and Michelle talking pay. Just got the whole thing from dinner and everything. It was good to see them in the same room talking in the past things they've been in the same room, and it's been real good. Yeah. She came in mad as hell. That was when she got to the room realized she wasn't in there. She had a house coat to a black, mama. Hair pulled up. Has you down here today just curious or after the damn question? Not since yesterday. What the hell does he talk to you about? Anyway. Now, you gears. For someone who wants to be helpful doing pretty shit job of it. Nothing really Chih-chia specifics homework. Sometimes other times how much she misses her own Darrel. She likes hearing stories about her gone. So you feed goal. Ship should smoke out. The bullshit. Let her know that she's just as much bad ass. Carl was. How he got into the sanctuary shot up a bunch of my men. Dear old dead in just lice my job dealer. They're all stores. Michelle, they are Nuder you tell her these things why. Because you know, that I haven't because you're trying to earn some sort of trust with her something that you can use my. You like hearing yourself talk. We have that in common. The point is she comes down. They're mad as hell. He couldn't get a word out. I also notice he wasn't doing it thing. He liked to do. He played a game. See how much information you really know? Yeah. He don't know anything. But he makes you think he no at all. Like, I think he's got to. I'm just going to be truthful. I think he tried to start with their game. And then she taught him. You know, what, you know, voted the windows. I don't know. What's next this time around the turn to sign light off in this bitch? Like, okay, look, I don't know. Also, I noticed it was morning. So I'm assuming that she woke up early in the morning to check on. Of and then by the time, she got the knee, and it was like, Don or whatever. But yes, it was. Then they is he had to stop playing them because she stopped playing. Because I straight with her. And maybe if you did that and you'd be talking to her right now instead of multi vice second time right from me off. So it was interesting though, is the ain't Rome. No, he not like he'd a windy Williams of the Alexandria telling you, man, it's not that Wendy be lying. No saying she'd be right watch show yesterday. Not watch her show. I notice word be I watch that show was good singers made a confessional show. I mean, we talked about it on the show. She confessed that she was on drugs and RIA or she was getting outdraws and going to rehab might man you went from talking about the news being news. I wonder if people are gonna polish is because everybody was accusing husband domestic violence during their time. I mean that don't mean not. Technically what? So I don't think they will apologize. What have you ever seen? Anybody apologize? I'll be honest internet. Make up a live is rod allowed just make sense. No, I believe it. So in believe it all right, shoot straight. Really? Did you tell them what you did to Glenn? To abraham. I didn't think so he's been on us with her. She has questions and I answer them. So yeah, she's heard those stories too. You're not letting new people in. She thinks that things she'd be like harles how they should be in the letter. You don't get to talk to me about Carl. And you definitely don't get to tell me what's wants field. She is author. Exactly, right. She is your daughter. So she has her own ideas about how things should be. Heating, come down here because you're curious you came down here because you have no idea where she is. Maybe she's off petting a horse or maybe she is exactly like her mother, and she is not taking she lying down. Goes back home. And she finds a no in a box of music a gun. The gun is go and notice I gotta go help. You can't stop me. Man. So Judah is gone to hell Darrow, Henry county and a Lydia get to Canedo and the conversation that her and Negus have them was really deep because decomposition they have a now as a compensation in Neagh in Canada won't to have the first time, but she didn't wanna hit that. He was like need to talk to you. Tell truth does washy down here talking to me, and she didn't wanna hit and her sumptuous that you just trying to paint yourself as good guy. And he was no I told her everything a good bet in ugly light, you know, your daughter. She not gonna take no bullshit. I just told her the truth. And like you said if you were talking to her she wouldn't be asking me questions and believe to believe the true because I don't think need afraid like what else they going to do to. Right. So you know, I and it also does give him a chance to take the Truman belie the reason. I did it was this or I was wrong about blank or. You know, I was out of my mind crazy, or whatever I also think too when she originally woke up and saw Judah for near. She didn't immediately go out searching for because she didn't think she was leaving the area. She thought maybe she just went to like some space within the area and now, but then at the talking to Neagh nothing Neagle like, oh, okay. So she going going. Yeah. I think he I think she must've spent some time between that and searching the area like like you wanna spend outside the house. But yeah. Like, not outside, Alex. Andrea and league have been like the last place. She checked there'd be like Woosh she down here. And that's why I think it turned from like like you say like the wee hours that heirloom one until like oh this now. Yeah. Because like like, I say it likes. He woke up in the morning, maybe she couldn't sleep or some and let me go talk to and it was kinda dark, and then she's talking to Neagle. And it's kinda like, you know. So anyway, she does go out on. Horse. She finds. Judas bike it parked out in the middle of the other. The some grass or something. She gets out. There's a group is obvious. She kills out. His army's this is a cool special fake because it's a montage her killing them kids mixed up with her killing the president. So it's key is in the past her and the president chop chop chop chop shop. Finally, we see Judas standing by herself. There's like threes left. She's chopping up. Business right now, you're little girls. Get busy with store like she killed three or whatever. And then once ambi- she'd forgotten stick sticking a and Michelle distracted her and grabbed Judah, and she's like, mom e hell hell, and it was kind of a moment. That reminds you that as much as they made you like this great fighter and action person on his show. She still a kid still needs shown correct and Cheryl comes over and saves her, but due to cut on the hand not like to turn into a Walker, but she's got a little cut. And after she saves her. You know, is is just opposed to splash back of Michelle saving Judah, which he was a kid from that crazy ass kids. So she she tends to the wound. And they have a conversation about what just happened. Like, you know. Can I thought? I was too late. Thought. Changed? Moss? Getting like you. Because compliant. All it was. And this moment is poignant because one deny grey areas just acting her as she was seven different machines in this episode. But. This is moment of realization that McDonald's. Like, oh, you remembered that when you were a kid I've been operating time. I'm a letter via kid I'm gonna protect it from this world, right Judah. Remember her killing on them look kids like she was never a kid. That's the only reason she comply when she do. She know. I'm like to kill to kill. Remember bitchy was crazy. Draw sword. It would nice to the whole time. I remember they made it all seem like a game. So we went with. She was. They all are. You did. Time. I thought you bar. I hope to didn't. And you never said anything after that first year. It may decide. What I've done at home. To understand because you didn't go. So how how do we here right now? Friends need our help to that's important. Here's. He said, here's. Cursed me 'cause you love me. And I love he ought to in loving. Someone means doing whatever it takes to them safe. Right. She is operatives. We stopped loving, Carol. Mackey Carole king. San Antonio almost outlook your. Wow. Forget if you that way. Feel every time just to say not like. Kicking me out. But. So what did you think about her her talk with Michelle? Thought it was needed an eye opening. What'd you think about talk with Michelle? I liked it because it goes to show the Darrow and Necas, right? Like, she's not a normal child like her childhood was squashed, you might as well be truthful. Witter? Tele was let her make own decisions. Keep her in the loop and keeper inform. I think moving forward I'm not going to go until everything, but she ain't gonna leave at loop human very truthful with her. So here's what I think. I think it's interesting job. Both appreciate the start. Because this shit Harry Reid talking about, but because he not a little girl with a good in a store. People be hating are Harry. But here we got the same point. Which is we got gotta operate with some compassion. That's the only thing that separates us can savage groups. So we gotta do better in everybody's likes fucking and refer take fuck. Your me. The peace jet, you pizza mother fucking shit. He Di hope you get eating here. We saying the same fucking shit. It's saying got down point it ain't deeper. A look here saying the same thing. But some of our being a little girl that changes everything 'cause the blood Rick Grimes, I guess that makes you act stupid about it. But call saying the same shit and now this little girl saying the saints yet. But we're Henry say, oh, he got a Di okay. So. It was a good talk. It was needed from shown don't mean that. We don't that Jude of not knowing and I don't necessarily feel the same way. But good I've never I've never heard anyone right in to tell us how to die. She getting on got them nerves. She stupid. Show always sound to the next session. I just wanted to make sure they couldn't hear your point making. So that only my point of view got across chat room. We are allowed to get at you care and back to the screen. But yeah, I just think that in general. Judah makes the same points as Henry, but somehow she gets a pass. And I don't know what's wrong with y'all. Why why does that get to be thing that she can do or not? We're not Harry. White women of privilege. Yeah. I guess it is white women privilege goes the chat room never says anything. They don't write in about Jud. If not once also maybe they feel like can handle herself when she got to. And maybe she got better parenting. I'm gonna take one kidnapping. And when do been making terrible life. Oh, like who Harry? He has. Has a tragic, but I'm just saying this because he always. Just because he's been wrong before don't make them wrong. Every time a broken clock. You know what I'm saying? You got one right out of all of this credit score bay rose. Are you telling me supposedly, you go pay via this all saying, I understand what somebody's saying to people saying the same thing, I could tell saying so. So then after that talk they go back and let. Of they go. I mean, they go back to Alexandria. Michelle takes Judah Takhar gray. And Michelle says she made a promise to Rick that never bury another child that's by. And then Rick was gone. She was Lawson Judah laws. She was scared. And after that scare with the kids. That's when all the group decided we let nobody in Alexandria, Alexandria, only take out exander. Fuck everybody else and they make America great again Bill that while. Terrible while I mean, we saw how easy right Nagin get out. And then later Michelle missed it hit does. She was right. And they need to protect the people. They love all the people. They love it. We will. And they go get a van with the roof cut off that is that is being driven by horse care like horses, which is a way to ride in Z pock kinda like that. I mean, you got to steer very style. And so they say. They stop it in on the side of the road. They see Henry his crew there. And that's why I want to ride the kindle, and they like all streets you decided let us come and they hop in. And they go to kingdom and underway in the kingdom. We see twos. Arby's and they stop at the gate, and they watch the wagon roll into kingdoms gates. It is like we must have alpha. So now outra knows where the kingdom it will not kingdom is and where the fair is. And so I I'm feeling like these last two episodes. I'll be a lot of deaths going to be a mother fucking bloodbath. Sephardi? Yeah. So just in a long time to get to to what it was going to like why was walking so slow. I mean, they were walking in Michelle no going by her. So I mean, no, I don't think the whole day and without okay. Get your data while you know, across Charlotte. And I take my car I'm gonna catch pretty soon. And I'll probably get your address. You're not acting stupid. And also when the bridge went out that made a big difference on that it kind of got they can't go straight anymore. Everybody has to go around. And that was the big thing. And that's why Rick was pushing on having a bridge Dan to keep the pathway open with the shortest distance. Ryan sound like they never went back to work on a brunette that shit either. I know what they say fuck, y'all. She could have him. By this is walk catch the bus when they might see came from us true. And also with them zombie spotting them if they would have went by foot. I guarantee you they wouldn't have been spotted because you know, Darryl ain't going to be out there. Come and do the front. I mean, everybody may have went to the front door anyway. But I think that it wouldn't have been as easier to spot. That's probably a good point. So we did get a lot of emails is weak. Dave rice in David. No Ruffin says children of the jiffy popcorn. Oh, hello. Rodney care nigga. This is my first time. Right. And then I couldn't let this episode go without hold on. Let me strength this down. I got too big. I couldn't let this episode go without right? Then Walking Dead has done this year. Kid kill him, Barbara this one was crazy whole squad a murderous children. That can't get on the roller coasters without an adult. I I was hyped as shit. Tara. But then I was immediately upset because I realized that she wasn't in the president. So I knew she was about to get some fuck shit function without saying to black women I say one I'm going to be evil got watch quitting sugar. No, no who rise around desire apocalypse with a bunch of kids. Have you ever travelled anything more than one with the kid? The. Have you ever traveled anything more than a why would a kid imagine? How many times you had to say don't make me put his carriage over sich is down. All you'll kiss. Well behaved probably could use their brand new the bathroom again. I don't listen. I don't want kids, I Brando. So you ain't gonna get in trouble. But once or twice come on. I love the moment with Michelle and Michelle and Darryl on the swing set, especially the foreshadow another whispers where he makes a comment about people in mass. Yeah, he was like some people so evil down to the course like they wearing a mask, and I'm like, ooh message. And I know mcdonagh's a soldier, but she don't she don't sit are pregnant Ashdown somewhere. Yes. She was super pregnant, man. Why would house dangerous? I learned a moment. When Michelle Darryl on the sweat on the swing set, especially this say, I can't believe that Brandon down those kids all of the corn ask here's those children the Coronets kids out here heating up rod ours. Like jiffy stole pop popcorn. I can't believe her friend would do her like that. It goes to show. You can't trust anybody in Zepa one day to helping you through the death of your mother. And a next stealing your kids and fry you like baking. Anyway, I'm looking forward to what these last two episodes having store, I know ALP about the flex shit low you recaps, and I can't wait for them thrown. Come back. Sincerely, David, no refuge. Thank you. Because I wanted to have Darrow things. Well, no dare knows. How LARs to group is now. But other people don't really know how large the whisper our group, and Dan when you add zombies today group like this. They have problem. And and we know the king dome of this. They got there and got knows supplies, right? Bassem in college. The highway me, you know, saying we know they don't want to smoke, and it's fight me. And brought today house a little light. And I know yet before but. Yeah. Like Alzheimer's about album. I guess they may have been hurricane names. They were talking about before may have been them. Yeah. We yeah. No, all those Shakespearean groups of walkers. Those hurts could've been that could have been them as well. We have no idea. What's happening with this year? They blend in so easily to you know, every day, we can take two or three us and all of a sudden hundred of us, then we mashed with somebody as they say, you know. It was thousands of us Walking Dead scars by cans wag five to five says. So Michelle Jocelyn quickly went from girls trip to Nino and g money. In my my sister's Kepa, maybe this season should be retitled parents, and in z pack, who's the most effective Deepak mom, Michelle Jocelyn, alpha them, farts other Loda pie, y'all killing it. Let's see I think you Carol. Say jostling. Gotcha. Okay. Jocelyn guy is vote. You could say Carol, you know. You know, she killed like kill like jazz group of saviors, and Henry didn't even know what happened that night. But I think my vote would probably be for air. Vote. We never see Gracie causing no problems, chilling even lead always follows directions. Right. No, no sense. But that's the same. But see I like Joscelyn's jostling. She's trade them to kill and willing to kill themselves. What she goes scape to fight another day. Yeah. Just don't like kids kill the kids that you can't control. Like like, I don't trust control. They might turn. You feel like she was like Johnson would have kept living. She had about two more years. I said, no, you mom, right? We all got knives. You should never gave us. All you. Like you. Mark the me she raised when preceding pretty good, right? True. True. She got my the one that say kill out of other kids. You said Johnson done. Don't want raise them. Good. Okay. Here's your words against you. All. I just be remembering what you say. Good because she raise them crazy. Like, all right. You said Johnson done that. Greg rice in fuck them keys. Hey, rod care Grigg here. I wanted to Email about Sunday's episode of Walking Dead darkest blackest episode. I've seen in a while. And when I say black is I mean, the last time we seen to black women on the screen at the same time on the show. So I m Sean, right? Don't forget new hair. Boo. The one we got the natural this on the city council in Alexandria. But yeah, not not a lot of media rose. If you know what I mean, I think we've seen ability together yet. Woo laura. We miss you Sasha. Anyway, let's get this out the way one this episode. I allow maybe understand why you caring always say yada won't children fucked them kids. Michelle, mowed them. Mowed down. Kids like a pistol shopper trying to get around children with a Costco car. I loved the horde. She killed a fuck item. She didn't even want to you know, that's our group. Sir. They can't show our group be like fuck yadi. He's got no don't make me. I killed obvious kids know, what to do this once turban kids, someone need to take her a pistol her hat and ground her you'd think Laurie Laughlin would was paired the way, she just defies logic. Do whatever the fuck. Yeah. Bribe her way into no college. Speaking of Judah, what of alpha is taking Judith shown releases Neaga to go. They know on her. This is something to show needs. Because I can't see Michelle. I can't see Michelle doing it. Even at the murder in the little rascals. You didn't think about that? But it could be a weapon you man, you'd be killing people go out. No. Makes them happy. They saw hill the cat now. The way the way they tried to make a relying does he just not like we can Doty water? Different. What is it that also kinda pampered? This one is thirty right. That's true. This is unfil- to the Philistines out here. I got a good one going back to my prison sale. We'll get book unlimited books come on over here. Using books have civilized conversation. I get to hear all the juicy gossip from my window to seven. I gotta go, right? I gotta go back to myself just to see him in a row Zito. Go ahead, babe. I'm missing my favorite show next episode kinda paper, right? Like each show say what I want you. He may intro intro songs to the different shows. Prison window, right? You know, his favorite show. What we needed a debate today's stepdaddy up, and he'd be looking out there and gave me, but Sean on the light from heaven low. Oh me. Oh, eight million almost. Number. Number four for the love of guy. Please don't kill Connie. I went RAI about how he feels about liking the character only for them to kill kill them. Yeah. I love me some tiny narrow got good chemistry to they kill county. Avi. Hurt kinda older woman got their babies. This Connie is the one that can't she's can't here. She is so fine and pretty nice. She kills. Yes. She would kill down. Downside. Explain to me what the downside is. Anyway until next week is cannery. And I hope that's guard is infected. But, but but you'd have had a scarred as week to Josse would you cut on you? They get to the same thing. Henry and wants to save Lydia and take them to candle secures say, thanks cuter. It happens did. Oh, wow. Okay. Maybe maybe here is a look Yuda. He might could get away with it. But he not. Nagy ninja says hey this episode was good. She caught it the piper Z park. Not the arc. Kelly version, you soon as vicious guard disgust me, it was a story before R Kelly was Vinit, y'all. Yeah. This is why we call upon five. He calls himself that actually is nasty ass. Hey. What? This episode. Ocala joke. So. Wow. All right. Maybe you should just beat it. Hey this episode is good. It was. Yes. Just and just leave him alone. Okay. Go to one place. Yeah. You do that good career? Coming to trying to be starting some guest stars. This is thriller. Just come on. Day and night look at how about that. Okay. This is tap dancing machine. Let it go. This was good. It was a little predictable for me. They put a lot of clues out there for the audience to get what went down. But the way Michelle ju the connected. The air was great also really let a message of how our kids are resilient often understand more than we get credit for this resonated with me because I was struggling with how or if I should tell my daughter about into the Zealand shooting, but I know as a Muslim parent I'd rather her hear about it for me. There's someone at school correct at what Darryl said about Judas not being just any kid was true. With a lot of kids today. They see an experience so much. So that idea of keeping them innocent really sows more like keeping them ignorant. Yup. Times you appearance do that for themselves is less about the keys. It becomes you send yourself and something about your child like you, you know, you literally do because you're actually stripping your child of making the choice of. Whatever they want to do with information that you give them and the thing is yes, you do need to depending on the age of your child, you might bring down in different ways, but Choudhry comprehend they see people said they see the people on TV that you know, they go to school. They have friends from different backgrounds like like this stuff impacts them. Whether you wanted to a not like, you say, you read that come from you, then the come from somebody else that ain't gonna tell them the truth nor care about the the mental health or the safety of your child after they tell them this because you can tell children things then just let a lot on a respond to it. And I mean, look like the facts that it has on those kids those Kuroda parents try to show them where everything like, they don't function wellness society. They have a lot of social like hangups and stuff they always doing inappropriate things. Like, this is really what happened with Justin. You know, a lot of people here to show every week. And they'd be like what's wrong with him. So you think that when there was saying that you know, that he wasn't saying that really could be anybody because a little bit of Shane a little bit of Rick a little bit everybody. I just know Billy not there was not Rick's lowered. So that's all. Come on. Man, y'all get it together fears. I do get where John was coming from shutting. Everybody down her baby was stolen by the pied piper. MP to pay the moment. I saw that scene where the kid had go. I knew she was gonna have to kill them. All damn. Yeah. Isn't it by the way, that's one of those times with that mystery delivered? They set that up. I have we do the seasons. Like what the fuck these exits me why why did her Darryl talking about it? Like why the fuck don't? She talked to anyone from other communities, and then it's like, oh, that's a really good reason. If you almost all the kids, we might stop let about career. So you don't think something else might have happened? Just you know that was enough. That's because I think after that what happens is I mean, it makes sense without even having to tell me the rest of the story, right? Alexandria shuts. Everything down we no longer fucking when nobody outside. These gates is about us and our kids putting kids in danger. Make people extremely paranoid and like over. Overprotective? So I think if you wanna say what they did when rational. Yes. 'cause I kid was it was involved in protecting our kids. So now, I can see that keep in mind over those years must shown kept that saying energy. But not everybody else did that even makes sense that people will to be like, maybe we was wrong to do that like hilltop was still out. There. Keenum is still out there. We should be community as communities, we you becoming together airman and terror and the -tarian leaving behind it like, it makes so much sense. I hope they don't even have they really don't have to go back and show that work to me for me to be like, nah that is a ripple from this. You know what I mean? So to me, it's perfectly without having to do like, you know, more explanation. So he says Narvik ninja ima- says. However, I don't see why she had to set out the kingdom and hilltop. That's the only thing. I don't feel like they explained. Very well. What would you getting kidnapped had to do with shutting out folks, you already know and trust? We'll see one of the things I was thinking with that. Is you can't control to other communities? So who the fuck are? They let near are. They policies the same hours. Right. I don't want my kid going there. If let people in we not let nobody in no new friends, so deficit, you know, not to mention traveling the road, you run into one of these groups, I just became afraid of their safety. And because their community is a self reliant community. It was easier for them as opposed to like when they need it shit. Alexander hilltop, y'all got greens. You know, like Limbaugh Cup of sugar me why hearing letting everybody right and you look Alexander now in this the fucking light. It's the Palisades. Okay. Like this boardwalk? That's probably why don't like it is down. They wouldn't know what to do with it. Right. Clean water. So then. Right. What's the three account on the? So then Megan needing he aim. He never leave right? But it made a nice jail. He ended jail on the good part of town. There may his how they treat the crew. But oh, and then the other thing you can skip an over Mont. She knew Jocelyn, right? So to her as like, you know, what if wanted people from hilltop or came through what they was just crazy like some happened. And they they went crazy, and we didn't know and to her it felt like a dub across like, I understand in real life. Y'all know people stupid about religion day. Stay religion throw the kids out there. Everything is in this case for the kids, if it logically institition gli doesn't that make sense? You have articles that contrary to it. People feel like I feel safer even Persson than losing. I feel safer as long as I feel safer. I'm going to do the actions they make me feel safe while also keep in mind, the other people that weren't betray about eight one day best closest friends. They did soften. It was much channel in charter security that held that shit up. Like, I don't care. So it wasn't even like the whole community agree where her like they didn't really and in the whispers game. And a lot of them was I actually you got a point. But even still they went to the fair, but she also is the one I could see south into because they didn't have to go get this here. Right. That's it. They didn't have to kill someone that they. Fran right. Didn't hear those keys went to a lot of trauma, and is one of those things when you go through that. And everybody has has had something even in your thirties and forties and fifties spring back from a child that lily scars you and sometimes you wonder why you respond to certain way because you're going back to that moment. And trust me somebody that has killed a lot of kids. It's hard to go. You never the same after that. Now I killed him on the basketball court. But it don't matter. It's all of saying to me. I can't wait. Oh, a she says, but I feel like there's more to pack their when it comes to everyone else. I guess black sister. Don't mean a damn thing film showing me saying what about friends I can't wait for the next episode? I'm wondering if Michelle talk with Lydia is foreshadowing her talking about out out her mom, taking her mom, but I would rather see carryovers alpha and versus Darrel and Michelle. Versus better beta Sino, what was Henry complained about having a scar on his legs. So book the fuck up. Henry was his character this whiny when he was a kid glove y'all mind true because Jace that about Judas he got a scar. On her hand, she was complaining to mom, and she said, isn't it going to turn to a scar? And Masan was like it probably won't. But she didn't say. No, scar Amami needed it. He he didn't say either. Nah. Wow. Oh, are just Jesus Qarase I want. Okay. I'll starting to question. Your love for him. You know, this guy named Michael last name Jackson used to love children. Look similar to here is will they were a little younger. I don't think it's right. You're where. You could take my. About fantasies day. Doughnut run Nebiat Tareq writes in. Hi, guys at hate nez Uriel Jones routine us walk in Wesley. She and deny had instant chemistry of people who chose. It'd be friends that are people who just ended up stuck together. I really enjoy learning more about whom showers for the Madonna Jocelyn went to Howard were they? Ak as a delta. Or you know, they definitely was autists 'cause AKA's have type they were. Vince right upon them. What did I do? Gonna play coy. Okay. I I'm just doing my show. Do it. Why people would take it personal? Of. So yeah, they were both probably vegans. That were crystal rock the other before it was cool. I think they might have been so hotels. They got them dreads. Listen breath of the now. They was listening to they was watching. It was joint. We love John's watching love. I could see also enjoy seeing tonight evil kids in this episode have happy healthy children as a huge indicator success of community because is stacked the kids they were celebrating Halloween. So there was time for leisure activities thing everybody dresses up his army over our. They also have supplies to us for a while as data just needs, which is huge Kasit an people have been homeless most of the series. Also, notice Alexandria has an inner outer entrance gate, so they spend a lot in a couple of years after the war with the savior's baby bought Michelle was a door. But stressed me out. People were mad that only Daryll Sean when the kids are soon there were multiple search parties Daryl Michelle found the children of the corn. Because there is a tracker and Darryl. Michelle have history searching together 'cause they talked about looking for the governor for months that makes sense per se. That's I've never had heard that perspective. But that makes a lot of sense. Maybe everybody was searching this episode. Was a nice throwback about the nature DNS friendship other than call. There were two. They would have to love Rick the most mega day re the day. Rick comes back and Michelle has him that fucking gun. Yes. Oh my God. I can't wait piece start. I'm Egede her giving him a child support view. I think he give McCain is carrying you give angel one MO season it is. And after by Andrew Lincoln gotta start thinking about coming back, man. I know he like it. He was tired of being living Australia, and there's so much better. I feel I should at least consider mascot down. No more. What does he doing himself nine away? I went back to live in Australia because he just tired of being away from his family ten months year for ten years. I don't really couldn't come on. Now. Erica. I mean, that's why he firm there. You know, what I'm saying to him? He's used to that shit. He's managers. I ain't saying what poisonous snakes. Spiders and dogs. I get it might you know, that is not the right. Hi. Could they might okay caused enough? The first one sounded more like British getting your UK. He not from the UK from Australia. Okay. Yeah. So no, not right exit. Just in just it. They thought it was from the UK. No, you sound like, Twenty-one savage. As far as while tonal Avezzano like. The last one he writes, well, you know, this is going to be about Iraq. And just in this episode was so epic. I loved it so much it actually made me follow lower Judah little maybe do this. Maybe Rix at the art because shame we'll have been Michelle side and never let people in again. Just like Henry, I loved it. When McDonald killed those kids they had to go. My only complaint was there. I love him resell much. Let's see how finally turn around on here. Say Henry wouldn't wanted to nothing here? We must I think he must not going up. You know, it's good to see mature them live. What what lies in this room? So you gotta hit. She got a history. Look, see, I read the Email. She loves hearing. And she's finally come around on him. And it's good to see that. She you finally soft it, and, you know, people don't need to have take the hatred with him all the way to the. Style growth. That's what we call. It. We count it. Call that growth. Just go. Whereas bit mm what I read. What I read. Was passed faster. Right. Listen to make a better walk past. What does that mean? Take. What does that mean you how past? Past winters that mean? By I'm her past. That's that's that's why. Yes. But love it. She's welcome all ya'll worker hurt to the fold. Why did I do that to your bosom? Why did I do that? Tell me to do. What are you looking forward to next week? Anything surprise me fair? See was going to happen at the fair. What would it be next week or the fair beautiful? Got two weeks to finish the preview for next week showed a lot of alpha and then them in the woods. So it seemed like they attack the fair or there or they got my shown in them out in the woods somehow, but you know to. Yeah, I could see them to up. They took her daughter. So I don't know. I can't wait for the fair. I guess I want to see a movie I wanna see what movie they're gonna watch. Going to be like is it? Zombie three green book, hopefully. You know what I'm saying? Like is it going to be LA La Land? What what what they picking up being? I like to see green book, and I think Henry should be the one to pick the movie green book. No this one looks like a good move. Thank you. Give me moonlighted. Okay. All right. That's fine. Give me the favorites of the it's going to be it's going to be a whole bunch. I want my daughter. That's not him. So OB KiKi in the movie theater life show enough. How any one y'all in? It. Didn't y'all circus come down here? And the pants. No. Come on baby for the is. No kiss. My dirty feet stink. Show. No. A woman cut off her own hand with a circular saw to cash in on insurance policy. Police say. A woman at her family. I've gone to great list to cash in on the shirts claims. Wow. She was gonna cut her family in on. Yes. The woman who was not named her right hand people. Okay. Well, right. The woman who was not named apparently use a circus outta cut off her hand. Now, here's the thing. They say she used a circle. Lice? Yeah. You might need them on this on you might add to know my thing for this is like, so we're her job does she get severance? Severance pay. I know you don't wanna walk in what your handout, but. I guess some of it had to twenty one euro was helped by her relatives hoped to get about four hundred and fifty thousand dollars in sheri- money. I was going to be. People do a lot for slice of the park here. She is apparently. Affair got into digital three thousand three hundred dollars a month for from the policy. The the monthly payments are expected to last for ten years. Okay. Now, they decrease at to the first decade. The woman has said she was cutting tree branches, which he cut off a left hand interest family members left it behind when they rushed to the hospital to make sure doctors would not be able to attack reattach it. They really got. Oh, we've got we're not. So we're supposed to bring with us. Listen, I would lose my hand. If you're wanting to test him happens to people by accident chick known I should on purpose. Sheri- at what point did they that? They work their way up to the hand. Like, she does she start on like just want finger, and they was like, nah, we gotta do the hand cover. What did it compromise started? You know, what I mean what they'd like let's start at the elbow, right? As he was like a finger. No they've made at the wrist. And then like how did they get to the hospital without the hand? I mean, you can't show up empty handed. The woman. Did the hair was covered by police and doctors were able to back on. And so Natta hand sitting out there for a while. It's not fresh where they did. So back on think it worked. They said it's go back. Just sitting on networking, good luck meal. Right. Jack off hand. The isn't it having Jay where police said a family is taken out five different insurance policies before the incident. Right. That's one of the first things they look into when you do that. You know? Right. Good. A Roger was joking. But you know, I increase both our policies shit like that. And now, I am not as. Almost increase. Start bringing my own water. I'm saying I'm saying snapped. Everybody went up. I this woman. Very good. Do I know Twitter go, I know, I know very well. She goes to court. She changed the store at our severely beaten up for years. I think every episode snap. What fits news? Is kind of forever picked him with name. Okay. Actually, the mar deputy appear behind us. Got us the one we went to the bar and show Kerry. Yes, not. Wow ing. Yes. Turn black and white grace. Yes. Ars go past the smile and go to. So how dangerous and murderous. They was. But I'll law where were before I got cutting trying to pick our own photo murder photo. What was cut off? Let's see. Not an insurance made money was paid. However since policies said they discovered the fraud in time just like a hand she plays the eight years in jail convicted of insurance fraud. I really got a hand tool. You know? I was surprised he really hadn't told on the rest of the film was like she just going to take this on. All right. I don't know. I saw what you did that. So I wonder his hands you put on the bible once you gotta testify quit. Mel you put your limit here or the bible. I this one is not when Yanna. Can I just put my head say weady reattached a ham either? Talking to other hands. She got two hands. Well, anyway, I think we're pretty even handed about this story. Fair minded. Let's go ahead and get out of here guys. Thank you so much. Everybody listening. Just you know what? Thank you for being here. This time, man. Wow. Wow. Wow. I'm not gonna let me back at your house again. I did a terrible job with this show. I apologize. I see Jocelyn. It could be worse. We go way back. You have killed me. Children. So we doing good doing. All right. We'll be back so schedule we actually are doing Bazi below early Friday. We'll be starting at nine AM set at ten AM. So get your feedback in late feedback. Of course, we will just probably miss it during the middle. Joe like a lot of unique is always do. And then also me bossy our record in our this too much on Sunday afternoon, tentatively she's done with book area days. And I think she should be able to like do the recapped with me. So we'll be recapping the last two episodes. I have not watched you. I like the wait till about the last minute and. What else? Oh, saturday. We're doing episode of music, my brain. I think it was the neighbor of show with Allegra and. Why am I drawing a blank on? It's already my Marianna Jesus Christ. I'm doing too much chic. I can't keep up Lake Mary. I know we doing. Mariah Carey themed episode about our great hit. So I know just it with those short that was a really are we doing are we going? Just gonna listeners you met them everything that's a really really shape. Yeah. You did. I don't know by the owner. Reach out to some people see day Viking back. Art. Maybe they have. I actually Hugh. Like, I love love. What's what's what's the one? Go. Butterfly, Honey, Honey, go along with older bass. Join a lot Favara love me somewhere. I love TV show Nike. All right. We'll see you guys later to next time. I love you. Love y'all.

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"Rogue Secretary of State" Jocelyn Benson

Alyssa Milano: Sorry Not Sorry

48:10 min | 8 months ago

"Rogue Secretary of State" Jocelyn Benson

"Hello podcast people. Are you subscribe to spotify yet? I am and I love it so much. Spotify has a huge catalog of my favorite podcasts. On every topic including mine. When you download spotify you can follow your favorite podcast so you never miss an episode. Premium users can download episodes. Listen to offline wherever you are and you can easily share what you're listening to with your friends on instagram. How cool is that so if you haven't done so already be sure to the spotify APP search for Illicit Milano? Sorry not sorry on spotify or browse podcasts. In Your Library Tab also make sure to follow me so you never miss an episode. Hi I'm Melissa Milano and this is sorry not sorry do. In two thousand eighteen Jocelyn Benson was elected as secretary of state in Michigan. It was part of a historic sweep. Where women were also elected to the governorship and to the Attorney General's office then the corona virus hit and Donald Trump went on the warpath personally attacking governor. Whitmer as she fought to get her citizens access to needed medical equipment. Well now he's also attack. Jocelyn calling her a rogue secretary of state for her plan to make sure all Michigan voters can apply to get an absentee ballot. This fall keeping them safe from the virus and ensuring everyone has a chance to vote. Jocelyn joined us to talk about the monumental importance of voting rights in the age of trump and the corona virus. This year we saw the. You're the woman. Two Point Gretchen. Whitmer Dana Nessel Jocelyn Benson Debbie Stamina and the list goes secretary of state of the Great State of Michigan. Four four my duties to invest in my abilities regard. Help me guys. The Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson says. She sees nothing wrong with paper ballots. Secretary of state says the voter absentee ballot. Applications are great way for voters to vote in coming elections without risking their. How ahead of a planned visit to Michigan Tomorrow? President trump is targeting the leaders of the state on twitter president trump on Wednesday threatened to withhold federal funding to Michigan after the state announced that all of the states registered. Voters would receive applications for absentee ballots in the mail this year. Benton Secretary of State of Michigan on fighting every day to ensure that every voice is heard and every vote is counted. Sorry not sorry first of all. Thank you so much for doing this. I really really appreciate it. It's interesting because you have a job that I don't think a lot of people fully grasp what you do as secretary of State in Michigan. You're responsible for overseeing elections. But can you give my listeners? Really an overview of what that entails. And just broadly what? The job secretaryastate position in most states overseas democracy and that means everything from money in politics and regulating promoting disclosure of bat to the actual act of casting a ballot and making sure those votes are counted accurately protecting the security of the process. Anything that goes into ensuring that our democracy runs well flows lows through each state secretary of State and from your perspective. What is the biggest threat to our democracy? And you can do that. Broadly but you can also do that in Michigan. Well Yeah I always say that. A healthy democracy requires an engaged. An informed electorate and so in that way biggest threat is disengaged and misinformed electorate. I think you need both. You need everyone. Voting particular especially systems of underrepresented communities whose voices has historically been at the table and decisions. That are made them. But you also need to to be informed about all the aspects of an issue that they can make independent decisions about what's best for them. We're having our communities so to me really. You need people. Running the system secretaries of state and we need elected representatives who all kind of flow into that any neighbouring and encourage engagement and Commission. Of course the media as well but if you poke short on either of those two metrics those two pieces than democracy is threatened and. I think that's some of what we are seeing today where you have in some cases. Low turnout or disengagement or feeling of apathy or. My vote doesn't matter. My voice doesn't matter which is the exact opposite of which real and democracy or people not having access to accurate information about the decisions that are being made note decision makers that are making them can hold them accountable. We here and we've heard a lot about Michigan this cycle. So what makes it so important in this election besides the Electoral College? And how did it become a battleground? These chicken is a collection of voters that really reflects the entire country in many ways certainly in the Midwest and you've got a very diverse population we've got the largest concentrations for example Arab American voters in the country. We've got strong urban areas with unique stories and history like Detroit and Flint and high levels of communities of color growing Tino population and then a lot of the state is very rural. And so the racial demographics. The economic demographics -cation you have also right next to Detroit. One of the wealthiest per capita community in the country and they got in some ways integregation and many of the problems that afflict and having the country historically are reflected in Michigan. There's a great thing I saw when I personally hear when Michigan accuses the whole country gets a cold that in some ways is a bellwether state. Her a lot of different things is that because of the people because of history because of the community that can indicate how rest of the country like feeling going and attention on our state certainly over the past ten years when it comes to presidential elections. Really underscored that. Well let's talk about November. I want a really sort of dive into what the plan is. Now that the pandemic changed everything. Because I feel like we're going to all be looking to you and to Michigan to sort of figure this out because you you are a battleground state. So what are the plans? How do we ensure that people are going to be able to vote confident that you really? In this age moment of uncertainty. There are two things that are absolutely certain. Bertha guards are elections in Michigan and many other states won the election. In November will happen. It will happen on time will happen on schedule and to citizens in Michigan and many other states will have a right to participate in that election from their home. Coming to you from the Robertson League voting booth here my dining room table. This is Dave. He's at home in Seattle Washington. Dave's done a lot of reporting on. What he says is a simple solution to how America can vote during the pandemic Chins of millions of people in America by mail now every election and it's fine. Washington is one of the few states that runs its entire election through the mail voting by got to walk into the two thousand. We everyone who done food by mail. Basically works by taking two important elements of voting verifying your identity and filling out the ballot and moving them from a polling place to your home or the ballot gets mailed a weeks before the election. They will not have to choose between her health and right to vote which is critical in ensuring back at this moment of historical election. Possibly the most significant election in our lifetime that every citizen knows exactly how to vote and doesn't worry that in casting they're risking their health so armee work really over the next five and a half months or how many weeks are left until November election. Which is coming out of quite quickly is to make sure that every citizen feels confident in the process knows exactly how to ensure their ballots. Catchy counting it there heard and if they are engaged if not even more so than ever before in using the power vote. To hold elected officials accountable. You said before and I agree with you that I feel like a lot of at least the younger generations feel that their voice and their vote does not make a difference. And it's always been hard to get out certain votes. How are we going to do this when there is a pandemic? I know it's going to happen. I know it has to happen. I know it's going to happen on time. I just can't wrap my head around unless you know by some miracle. Mcconnell wakes up and decides you know what everybody should be allowed to vote from home. That's what we're GonNa do this election cycle Howard secretaries of state. Who are leading the way. Alex Padilla in California. Were to implement program where every voter in the state will get balancing automatically. You've got that same. That's been in place for many years in Oregon and Washington champions Guy Secretaries it's actually both sides of the aisle because one of the other really important aspect of this officers. We administered democracy. We make sure everybody is hurt. It's not a heart condition and oftentimes uses that in the past. But that said. I think secretaries of state that either working with my colleagues around the country are working overtime in the vast majority of states to ensure every citizen has that preserved right by mail in Michigan. We've got this unique story. Because in two thousand eighteen voters voted overwhelmingly to amend our constitution to create a right to vote by mail as well as many other things like automatic voter registration and the ability to register to vote on election day. So really what it comes down to in my view is making sure. One voting is a very personal thing so making sure citizens essentially have choices on how to exercise their vote that they're well informed about how the exercise those choices and that one of those choices is the ability to vote without having to leave your home. And so you know in Michigan will working to make that a reality to build that infrastructure. Because there's many pieces to it. But it essentially requires and enables every citizen to be fully informed on that ability to have heard any continent that their vote will be counted if they receive their ballot and return it through the mail without ever leaving home. And I think we've already seen trump trying to Italian The idea of Malin voting as being something that can be hacked or that is wall neural president. Donald trump on Wednesday lashed out to states seeking to embrace mail in voting. Breaking Michigan Sends Absentee Ballots to seven point seven million people ahead of the primaries and general election this was done illegally and without authorization by a rogue secretary of state. I will ask to hold up funding to Michigan if they want to go down. This voter fraud. Pass those tweet from the president. What would you say to someone? That was listening to the podcast right now. Where they're like but I heard that it's not safe to vote when people actually if he does. You said vote by mail. Then they will question it. Piracy is clear. I think to me the is it two things we know they're going to be in. This election. Cycle efforts chew confused citizens about their rights. It's a different form voter suppression. But it's one in which we doubt our ability to vote. We don't be the sanctity of our whole and when you have lawmakers or leaders sowing the seeds of doubt based on false information it is one of those great guts. Democracy. It is heartbreaking. It is one of the saddest things for me to see people taking advantage and be uncertainty right now by the way policy of down in that said you always have to look at the motivation. Sometimes it's motivated for very political agendas and often times. You have to look at the data. The data shows is that where people vote when it's convenient to do so and more people when you wrote my mouth. We just had an election actually on local elections and we enabled ninety nine percent of the electorate to vote by mail. Mailing everyone an application to request their ballots. You sent them. Ninety nine percent of the vote in that elections by mail and turn out secretary of State Jocelyn Benson is doing what we hope. Many of you were doing today voted. There's still time to vote polls are open until eight o'clock you can show up. I if you've already been registered to vote show up at your local precinct. If you're not registered to vote there so time bring your residency verification to your local clerk and you can register to vote and cast her ballot right. Thousands of Michiganders cast their votes in yesterday's election. The first of its kind in the midst of a pandemic on a conference call with reporters Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson said. The turnout was historic. We have seen the vast majority of upwards of eighty or ninety percent of those voting today have voted by mail. The number of absentee ballots rose over ninety to ninety nine percent of all votes cast. Yesterday's turnout set a record for elections to a whopping twenty five percent double the average. The data across the board shows turnout increases. More people. Vote when they can go by mail and remorse people vote. Whoever HAS POWER INCREASE UNCERTAINTY FOR RETAIN? Our go right question mark and flag because but at the long as thing. I think it's more worried about what happened. More people vote than anything else. That's lying most common. But how do those comments change what you do? Is it more about a campaign of awareness? How do you fight it? That's so many of these issues that we're facing because of this man. I don't know how we fight attacks on elections and voting rights. So how does it change what you to? Beauty of democracy is that it's a team sport and secretaries of state election administrators. Play a key role and making sure that the trains run on time that people get their about their counted accurately and did that works but voters have a responsibility to an opportunity to engage their community to get people where accuracy gotta facts. Truth is one of the ways in which social media can be bluffing. We've also seen it used to sow seeds of doubt in information quite effectively. I see it as refund already but we all have to ensure that we know not just how to vote but they were informed as well and we can't necessarily farm out the duty of being influenced voters we have to embrace that responsibility thousand and nude around the. I think that's important part of it. Democracy is also more than just about moaning that is a key aspect of it but it your own sport. It's one in which stay engaged in spreading awareness about Lille facts is twenty four seven and then not just one day every four years when we tested the presidency. It's a Lotta work. And if we don't do have people writing power who don't reflect willow country and the majority of the electoral call of life and many other things changed impact and long. If you haven't heard about anchor. Let me tell you a little bit about it. It is the easiest way to make a podcast. I've just joined and I can't tell you how much I love it. And here's a few reasons why it's free. It's super easy to create and record podcasts. Right from your computer. Literally anyone can do it. Anchor handles all of the distribution. All you have to do is record or upload your podcast and they send it out to spotify and apple podcasts and everywhere else and get this anchor can help you get paid for podcasting without any minimum listener number. Everything you need to make. Your podcast is in one place at anchor. Download the free anchor APP or go to anchor dot. Fm to get started. I would think it's gotta be super important to be impartial right when administering elections. And then you get these partisan attacks from the other party I mean. Does that affect how you do? Your job is it difficult for you to stay. Neutrally work throughout my career has been around civil rights. I started my career in Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama and it was really like the penetration. Kalama in the early stages. There's just graduated from college where I was in those Lucas. Great commitment of the freedom fighters you come before us to ensure that every vote counted. And so for me. That's where my source of inspiration confront. Those who came before us to ensure democracy works in the fight for every citizen's voice. And now what this is about for me? I have a belief that he can get everyone at the table in voting and engaging informed better decisions emerge history teaches us so my focus has been on that and I think that's what you want from someone administering election. What I've I don't know in this job is how important is to talk to the community. The people aren't talking to and by that I mean even in partner election cycle both sides often times. We'll just talk or message to the communities. They know vote likely to vote and oftentimes low income communities places where people are not voting in high numbers. They don't get Kennedy. Does it. In their issues are concerned aren't really part of them. They just want to be able to put two hundred table and take care of their kids. Make sure there can drink safe water. Meanwhile the Democrats actress Eliza Milano made campaign stops who's Gretchen Whitmer Garland Gilchrist stubby stab at other local candidates. I caught up with her after their stop in grand rapids at teamsters four. Oh six and asked why of all places she chose to come here honestly when the opportunity arose? I thought it would be a great opportunity. I because I've never been to Michigan but second because I'm pretty angry about what happened in Flint. June thirty centers have become partisan issues. But they're really not real like what matters for community. Anyone can support that. Well I think that's true with all of the issues that we've seen wind up politicizing every family. Yeah and it's really about. How can we make lives better for those around us and one of the things I've done in my job is identified a community the lowest turnout? We actually moved into one hundred neighbourhoods in our state that have in November two thousand eight ten percent people voted consistently load turn out these opportunities that are often neglected. I was in decision making authority on both sides and I'm been going there just talking to them listening and saying how can we better serve you now? One hundred three things vast majority are in Detroit forty of them memory in Detroit twenty of them with and you also see this pattern of neglect where people are voting in their communities. Don't get the investment resources that you having conversations about that has been roaming firing in part because they're expecting could listen and not be welcome because I don't necessarily look like those new members of the community. I wouldn't be tested in thinking you know. How can I create a space for people are talking about how we can do a better job for them? What I found. Indies stations has been not a single person has said you're not from here. Everyone has said thank you for coming. Yeah single-person instead. I don't vote because I don't think matters Everyone has said. I don't vote because I can't. I have a criminal history which say in Michigan. You can her God criminal history. So that's and then people like you're kidding and then and then. I don't know who to vote for because I don't know anything about the candidates I don't know how to get the precinct. I don't know how to do all these things. Government wants to do in order to vote. So we've been focusing map but I have to say it's been really inspiring the shape. We can make it more accessible and convenient every community for every season we will see more people engaged in vote in and I think our country will be better than us all. Let me ask you this. Do you think that the federal government should have a larger role in national elections? I mean it seems like there's so many problems on state levels right. The hanging Chads in two thousand Florida the North Carolina Gerrymandering the election machine problems in Georgia. I don't know if every secretary of State is able to stay neutral or do their job as well as you do do to. We need some kind of federal government has had an important role to play historically on particular with creating a baseline for what our democracy should be like for every citizen now making sure that no one's discriminated against our Constitution has been amended more times around expanding the franchise than any other one reason. I. The federal government has had this historical critical role to play in protecting everyone's right to vote and ensuring no one else can to discrimination of any kind. That was locked. Their voice would be heard. The Voting Rights Act which is the reason. I became a lawyer because I wanted to enforce the that is a great example of that. It's been in recent years as the battle over. Lockerbie has taken national tone has but that's not the the government in recent years. I think has advocated a bit its responsibility to ensure every voter has an equal access to vote. And there's many reasons why that is and why that has happened. I think it's important role. The federal government has to play and additionally and providing funding for safe including cutting euro to administer elections. During Kovin Michigan Secretary Jocelyn Benson had undertaken a completely lawful routine and in fact laudatory move you send out under Michigan Law absentee ballot applications to the voters of her State. Being so that those voters do not have to go to the polls in the fall possibly miss pandemic if they do not want the president then falsely claimed this was done illegally and without authorization by a rogue secretary straight. He then list threatened to hold up funding to Michigan. If they want to go down this voter fraud path. I'm dumbfounded that this is controversial especially because there are Democratic. Republican secretaries of state are doing. Just what we're doing here in Michigan so I'd like to see the Federal Government Plan Porton role I know. There's many individuals congressman John Lewis in federal government. Who would say the same has been pushing for that and the lack of that type of moral wordings in the federal government in support of democracy. It's part of what turned our democracy today. But that's an advocate the state to state critical role to play as well route laboratory democracy again a partnership a team effort every player needs to play their role. The thing that keeps me up at night is election security. Because I mean it's just coming from everywhere. We've got external agitators. We've got internal bad actors. We have unregulated companies making voting machines. We can't audit pack with ease. So how are you securing? Election my background. I used to run a law school. I was the dean of a law school before I became secretary of State and my instinct is always like get the smartest people in the room. Let THEM DISAGREE IN. Work it out but bring all of the smart ideas the table and use that to inform what you do and so. I created a task force on election security of on my election to basically bring all these national experts including those in federal government to Michigan to give us all the ideas all the suggestion all areas for improvement and how to plan particularly in our elections. And we've got different pieces that were implementing that plan but it really comes down to two things carrying our elections is one about making sure the infrastructure secure making sure machine can't be hack so to address that we're doing post-election on it risk limiting on it to ensure every paper ballot. We have paper ballots in Michigan. That's critical paper. Ballots are then on to make sure. The machines are counting them accurately example we have various other pieces of our infrastructure. Securing our registry databases. So they can't be hacked so we focused on that and are working with know again leading national computer scientists and others to test systems the ahead of emerging threats and all that second piece of election security though is really in partnership with voters so much about elections security is not just about hacking system is also about hacking the minds of voters. So that they you see when you valuing the US Senate committee mound the Russian influence in their twenty sixteen election. It's about showing people doubt in our democracy in the sanctity of the process along the electorate and using that to division and cause problems in the sanctity of the process so we all have a responsibility as citizens to fight against efforts to misinform voters about their rights about the process and to take various different forms but to be active engaged critical thinkers in the information. We're getting and passing on and at the same per campaigns and not leaders as well so our efforts on election security really focus on those two things and educated me empowering listens to fight back against deceptive practices such critical is protecting the infrastructure system itself with so much going on. What do you think is the biggest risk to this election? Day home or don't vote because they feel they can't they? Shouldn't it's unsafe me. The biggest concern I have and what we're working every day to fight against. We want every citizen in Michigan and beyond to know that and have full faith that they can exercise their right to vote this fall and can do so with faith in our democratic institutions. It feels like a lot it is. I mean he intentionally was set up to acquire all of us to play a role and every Iraq. And so that is if you D and also it's challenge so in all these issues fighting back on elections security making sure that the November election is an accurate reflection of the will of citizens of our country. All of that you know gay gets down to all of the other. Look there's learning right back didn't happen because Lyndon Johnson said no we need Federal Law. It happened because demanded equality inference went to Mississippi and registered voters and showed that courage. Not that is what our democracy really is about. It's about its people and the secretary level it named Nicole to play and I think it's much rather use it to towards partisan and using it towards like engaging everyone outing and in our democracy actually took off twenty secretaries of state to film five months into my tenure. 'cause I was like this is what we're about guys this. Is You know proper the bridge so much of the work that we do in about enabling our systems to be a conduit for the electric's voice voters voice. But we can't do that in my voters. Believe in it believe in the system as well and sixty exerciser vote and demand and times when withheld her oppressed and we do better and tight with them against depression and other thing I mean. Honestly it's why I got politically active because what in two thousand to Al Gore. I was so completely horrified and it was the first moment in my life where I was like. Oh maybe can't be trusted and I promised myself that I would do everything I could. And within my power to help people to vote. And that's when I started driving people to the polls two thousand four. That's when I started driving people to the polls because of what happened in two thousand so identifying thousand votes our country's history so Chris in one state yeah other pieces of this to me is that so much of our history and who we are as a nation as defined by win the election and when that comes down to failures and the system of democracy for whatever reason then our history is defined by things. That aren't accurate. People gain power in a way that is not what the majority of people were mean. We see this in two thousand sixteen much. Our country has changed a response to chronic buyers. So much is decided by an election and I know we feel some times at one. Vote doesn't matter four votes or their householder which I didn't define who we are as a nation and we're seeing what happens when people don't oftentimes people electing the don't reflect the country. I want to switch gears and talk about some of the recent events in Michigan. You've had some I mean. It appears terrifying things happening. They're armed men storming the State House demanding. The governor reopen the state despite overwhelming scientific consensus to the contrary. What is up with that? What's happening. Who are able. It's heartbreaking to see actually when we have a governor who has brought together people are very movies the business community all over the state to inform her decision making should make very clear. Data driven decision in someone is a reflection of misinformation citizens are one in terms of what spurs someone to oppose it this information that they're hearing from different sources that we can be about. Parvin those sources come from a high levels or power. But it's sort of spurred on by permission it was politicize political and partisan agenda. That's not necessarily about the health of our state or communities or families and I think first and foremost I'm so honored to be working alongside governor. Who has been sped fast in continuing to do? What's best for everyone even those who seek to do harm and it's a reflection of good leadership certainly and when you again without being friend history. The decisions that are often made are ones that we make as leaders when they're unpopular right. And and you just hope that everyone power to make decisions and affect us all do. What's right now with popular politics and certainly in times like he'd more important so it's been scary early. It's unnerving days that it's happened winner and you know people with on storming the Capitol building and he just think what is this. What are we become the racial dynamics? Of course well he had was a car doing just sort of see the privilege of a community that have that reaction the communities of caller would have. And you know. Everything's up in Georgia with Aubrey. Martyn Amick to and just real elevations of the issues of criminal justice. And then you always there. You know. I think everyone in our state regardless of your party affiliation should be able to denounce violence in our capital. Yeah we haven't had that. Well that's because we don't have a leader at the highest level. That is able to do that. Yeah leader that was. Put there by an election right. So that's why there's when we have an election coming out. There's all the more reason to ensure winner hurt in the political arena the proper way but yeah so it's been Gosh. I mean even just this week. There was a vote illegal opinion by the Attorney General. The capital condition outlaw firearms and the capital declined to do so. Even people leveraging threats against elected office holders and it's time agreeing fighting and certainty to have that exacerbated by this type of behavior it just really disappointing that all around and I think moments of crisis you can either try to bring up the best. They can bring out the worst. Yeah and I think we all the Jones have a choice that we can make. And certainly what? We're all looking seen great leadership. We're also seeing some the worst behavior that we can see in society. Well and I think that a lot of it is stemming from this lack of coordinated effort in the beginning. It's like wear masks. Don't wear masks. Please don't wear masks your today. We're GONNA wear masks and when it's something as simple as protecting yourself with a mask and that message gets botched and there's no federal guidelines for reopening even though everyone's talking about reopening I think there is no real sort of begin of truth that we can trust. I think fouts using the best job he possibly can be doing in the CDC. I mean we. We heard a few weeks ago that the CDC guidelines and trump is editing them right now but states are already opening up. Wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of blanket guidelines? Were all on the same page? Because I mean as far as I know. We don't have barriers protecting us from other states that are opening where the pandemic is growing at a friend who is the other day and packing my driving through different states and I decide. Don't get out of your car and that state I live in Detroit and even just this morning I learned of our colleague former state. Senator more heard who passed away colonel virus and there's been significant racial disparities in. Detroit in other places in terms of WHO's been affected by this but certainly in communities of Color African American communities have been highly affected across the country. From what reasons because it is being the task force on this in Michigan and elsewhere but losing someone or losing many people to this virus versus not knowing anyone who was affected by it for multiple reasons and therefore being more susceptible to not leaving things that need to protect yourself and the restrictions are good reason for your own good health and my deputy secretary state income landlords attorney Emberley from time he's African American sixties and his experience with this forest. He lost so many people who knows his of big whisper. Portion impact had yet community different. Any experience at somewhere in the world can be might have based on who they know and who's going to factor that plays a little too in front of more reflection of our society and how race connected we are that we can't know or feel compassion towards those teaming would be another place but his experience is very different and also taking. He feeds the disparity the impact on the loss in the buyer viruses. Are you totally overwhelmed and stressed all the time? And Are you having trouble? Sleeping focusing or relaxing. Well if the answer is yes a joined the club and be you have to check out? Tm soft white noise sleep. Sounds podcast. Okay this hour long. Podcast is made to help you. Get rid of distractions reduce stress. Relax and get better sleep. You can listen to the sounds of nature white noise relaxing music and so much more so check out the TM. Soft white noise sleep. Sounds podcast on spotify or wherever you? Listen to your favorite podcast. The thing that I've been thinking about is. How do we come out of this better than we went into this Because it is such a reflection of every failing that we have that is in place that is not in place and when you look at the success that other countries have had in preventing the amount of deaths that we have. It is incredibly heartbreaking to me one of the things that all of those countries or a lot of those countries have in common is. They're all run by women and since two thousand eighteen election Michigan's top elected offices are now all held by women whether it's governor attorney. General Secretary of state or Senator Michigan Selected Democratic Woman for State Wide Office on Tuesdays ballot nationally. More women will serve in Congress than ever before political analyst. Dave Giulio says it comes as no surprise me. Too Movement is without a doubt out in front. I'm wondering do you think that that changes? How estate is run. I know that the fact that I get to work with attorney. General and governor in Chief Justice the import who we have some shared experiences. There's all of our gender and other things that we're all their unique people that it creates a solidarity that otherwise might not be there. I could just. I'm so grateful every day as I get to work with this governor and I learned so much from see her. She's handled every crisis with grace and dignity and formal and you see you know the fact that she's a mom. Look cheever Dahmer. The experiences that are unique to her gender and being a woman that have shared to she as we see that reflected in a lot of ways makes and I've certainly and I said to her many times I can't imagine anyone else in competition that she's been doing good a job as she has an part of that. Is You know what she's learned as a mom as a daughter and a female lawmaker most of her career being the only female voices in the room and the Grit and the grace that generates in you and ability to bring people together making questions so I think a lot of that has combined to make her great leader and I see that a lot of this who've had to overcome a lot in order to be taken seriously a Michigan. All she does is. She has no idea what's going on and she does say. Oh it's the federal government's full. I don't want them to say things that aren't true. I want them to be appreciative. Youngest woman to run a law school when I became law and I saw immediately how it can different type of approach to leadership when you're a minority voice in any way I think it's certainly shape term short sheets a lot of leaders and also the other thing is is. We don't have a lot of women to undo and say. I want to do it like that. Hopefully that is changing now. But we're really kind of making that leadership up as we go along being inclusive of everything that we are because it's very hard. I mean I remember totally unrelated but I had an agent who I loved very much and she was a woman and she left the agency and I said to her. I said I don't understand like why are you leaving? And she said to me she said because I look around and there's no one that's doing it the way. I think I need to do it so I need to get out of here and figure out what that end and it just struck a chord with me because so often we are shaping what leadership looks like by trying to emulate what are male counterparts. Make leadership look like and I think it is the grace of governor Whitmer. It is her ability to have empathy and compassion. And all of those things that make women special because of not in spite of and so. I'm just so pleased that my daughter she's five and that she gets to grow up in a world where she hopefully we'll have women in leadership positions that she can say. You know what I WANNA do like that. I worked in sports briefly. We've talked about that. Yeah is you're saying that and just thinking about that as well because I've never felt more aware of my gender and the way in which it on my ability to be effective and successful than when I work in sports and is this irony that most women executives have some background in sports and athletes many ripe executives has worked with after have some sort of sports in their background and if irony. That one of the industry's where women are released. Empowered is also the one that can create female leaders in other industries I think awesome only have a lot of fire making sure sports. They possible okay. Everyone money levels and and a lot on that too and and there's a similar piece to know what does leadership charter to recreate each a role that women know that they can truly be anything cannot see and but I always tell you especially when it's been too young female athletes is that you have to be what you can't see right now like right now and hopefully you'll see it more. You have to be that champion. You have to be that leader and I'm really hopeful that their daughter are where young girls that are gonNA be growing up in environment where there are more female leaders will really just reached a tipping point. Where every young girl goes a long that they can do anything and really. Just be able to close your eyes and dream of what that looks. I wanted to empire. That was my first job. It's so cool. I'm not owning me. Just a young girl even in high school. Well you know I can't being apart. I didn't even think that much about off the table right. And that really impacted me and so I got into politics that as an athlete myself and all the different ways in which many industries are are not equally open to women and what women leaders could do to industry to improve them if they were equally open to women and another that and then I think just finally. I'd like to ask you because I know right now. Everything feels so raw and scary and uncertain and disheartening. What just give you hope about? Twenty twenty the goodness of the People. We are seeing merging this crisis. The people who every night New York City applauds these hostile locals that the people who are hacking their lives so that they could take care of other he means in hospitals. The goodness that is emerged. One of these. This gives me hope and talking that we will get through this together. Knowledge that things like elections but determine who has power in this country will continue the industry that creates vaccines is working out to the goodness of humanity will the the individuals who are choosing to emulate right now and so much of who we all country? The party's GonNa be defined over here in terms of how elections and how we elect people but also how we do everything but we can from shopping to entertainment to claim for it. And so I think the more people who make informed decisions for the best community. Don't fall victim. I guess you could say to partisan agendas and devices actions the mark people who choose good and Jews Service. The better off will be at the society so that telling written but it gives me hope because so many people choosing goodness cheating service choosing community cheating prolonged Taber and that ultimately that choice individuals making that choice is I think what's going to bring up to. I am so glad there is you in this world. Thank you so much a part of the podcast. I appreciate you so much. Well since this conversation was recorded. Donald trump publicly attacked Joscelyn for doing her job and protecting voting rights. Something he knows is bad for him and the Republican Party so because of that we asked her to close out. Today's episode with some words about that attack. Here is jostled high. My name is Jocelyn Benson. But you might know me as that rogue secretary of state from Michigan. At least that's what. The president of the United States calls me. His recent tweets about my decision to send all Michigan voters. Applications to safely vote by mail suggestion. I had gone rogue and acted illegally and informing our voters about their rights. He was wrong in Michigan. Every registered voter has the right to vote by mail and as we collectively endure this moment of great uncertainty caused by global pandemic that has taken the lives of nearly one hundred thousand Americans. It's both within my authority and responsibility as Michigan's chief election officer to ensure every voter knows that they do not need to risk their health to cast their ballot. Our democracy requires no less. So why is the president attacking me spreading false information about the voting rights of our citizens and my authority to protect them even going so far as to threaten to withhold federal funding from our state unless we comply with his demands. Well the obvious answer. Is that Michigan is one of several states that will heavily influence the outcome of this year's presidential election. But there's more to it than that this year perhaps more than any other. Americans will be inundated by efforts to confuse them about the elections process. Their rights issues at stake and whether the elections will be held at all these efforts foreign domestic partisan or simply militias are designed to foster mistrust in our elections process. Depress turnout and erode confidence in the election results and the of our democracy. They are a real threat to the health of our republic and they will only escalate in the months ahead. That's why it's incumbent upon all of us regardless of where we are or what our positions are to stand up in the face of any attempts to deploy false information about our elections and our voters rights. We must be vigilant against any and all attempts to hack our voters minds with social media posts and scare tactics that falsely threatened their confidence in our elections by proactively seeking out reliable sources of information and encouraging productive dialogue. Now make no mistake. It will take all of us every single one of us to work together if we are going to disarm and diminish to confuse our electorate but only by doing so. Can we fully succeed? In ensuring our elections are a secure. An accurate reflection of the will of the people now is not the time for partisan game ship but this moment in history requires that we come together and resist attempts to de-legitimize elections and silence. The Voice of our voters. We cannot let misinformation whether it comes from the White House the Kremlin or anywhere else so seeds of doubt in our elections process facts must prevail over fear otherwise it does not one party that will lose to the other that our nation that will lose its democracy. Sorry not sorry is executive produced by listen a lot out. That's me. Our associate producer has ben Jackson Editing and engineering. Tasha's Jake Guts and music by Josh Cooke. Alicia Eagle and Milo Bully Ari. That's my boy. Please subscribe on spotify Itunes or wherever you get your podcasts and if you like the show please rate review and spread the word.

Michigan Michigan Jocelyn Benson president spotify federal government Donald Trump Detroit attorney state secretary Gretchen Whitmer Garland Gilch Whitmer Dana Nessel Jocelyn Be secretary Dave Giulio
Blood test for multiple cancers studied in 10,000 women, and is our Sun boring?

Science Magazine Podcast

19:52 min | 9 months ago

Blood test for multiple cancers studied in 10,000 women, and is our Sun boring?

"Welcome to the podcast for me. I Two thousand twenty. I'm Sarah Crespi. This is going to be our first corona virus free episode in a while. I up this week. I talked with staff writer. Jocelyn Kaiser about a study involving ten thousand women who all received a blood test for multiple types of cancer are blood beast. Biopsies coming to a clinic near you. Then we have researchers team reinhold. He's here to talk about his paper. On how the sun is a lot less variable it's magnetic activity compared with similar stars. What does it mean that our son is a little bit boring? Now we have staff writer Jocelyn Kaiser. She wrote a story this week about a large trial of blood based test for different kinds of cancer. Hi Jocelyn Hi. Who's producing this test? And WHO's testing it? So the test has been developed by a group of researchers at Johns Hopkins University and they Have been working on the test. For years they call cancer seek and last year the company picked up. The test is called What kinds of cancer can be detected with a test like this in principle many different kinds of cancer and in this test the cancer is included Liver Cancer Ovarian Breast Cancer Lung Cancer? Thyroid Lymphoma and some other types. What were they detecting in the blood that could catch all these different things so they were detecting was DNA? That is shed by cancer cells when they die into the blood they're tiny amounts of it but it is a signature of the cancer because certain genes are often mutated in cancer. That's what drives the cancer's growth and so by looking for sixteen different genes mutations in these genes in DNA in the blood the researchers could detect various types of cancer. But they didn't necessarily know what kind of cancer it was by looking at the result of the blood test they didn't necessarily node type of cancer. Or where it was in the body. Let's go to the study here so you talk about the group that are spaded in the study. Sure but just to tell you. What's different about this? Until now people developing these tests have been developing them by getting a big group of people some of them with cancer. The ino that who have cancer and the other group of people don't have cancer and they've looked at whether their tests can tell who has cancer and who doesn't what's different here is that they took another big group of people women in this case and what they wanted to know is we don't know if any of these women have cancer or not rethink. They don't have cancer but we know that some of them probably do and that is the more real world situation where you'd be using tests like this. So that's what's so important and they recruited about ten thousand women who all get healthcare in Pennsylvania through the geissinger healthcare system. And that's the group that took the blood test. How long did this study gone for? I think it's been going on for at least a couple of years. But each woman when she enrolled in the study and got her blood test she was then followed for a year. What happened if a woman in this study had a positive result on her blood test so if she had a positive result on the first blood test she was asked to come back later for a second blood test. That look a few more things in the blood to make sure that it wasn't a false positive although it didn't rule out of false positive and if that test was also positive than she would be invited to come in for an imaging test and imaging would confirm the diagnosis yes. The imaging would tell her doctor if she did actually have some lump somewhere that might be cancer but even then you may have to do more while usually Joe Biopsy to make sure it actually is cancer because you can have lumps. That aren't cancer overall. Were they able to catch many cancers in this group of what ten thousand women? The blood test was able to detect twenty six cancers in this group of ten thousand women which doesn't sound like a lot but it's actually not that many cancers that are going to pop a group to size they found other cancers in other ways but the total was only about one hundred cancers knew what were they looking for with other methods. And how did they compare? The other methods are what's called standard screening tests like mammography conus coppee. And if you're smoker you might get along scandal look for lung cancer. Those are tests that are part of routine medical care and part of the studies design was to keep encouraging women to do that testing. Because this isn't supposed to substitute for those tests. Found another twenty four lung breast or colon cancers we have the blood tests finding some cancers and the typical screenings finding some cancers and overall. How many cancers did you say there were another batch cancers that were found through symptoms or other things that brought them to the attention of the doctor so the total was ninety six cancers so is this a lot of cancer the answer to that comes from epidemiology studies that look at how many cancers will occur in a group of women this age which is sixty five to seventy five in one year and according to that data you only expect about one hundred cancers in one year in this group of women at doesn't mean that this test found or the study found all cancers it may not have found all of them but it is in the neighborhood of what you'd expect one concern that a lot of people have about tests like the screens like this is false? Positives will something get flagged and it's incorrect but then the patient has to undergo invasive procedures did happen a lot in the study in about a hundred women. There was a positive blood test in the woman underwent imaging and she did not end up cancer in in some cases twenty two cases the way that doctors confirmed that she didn't have cancer involve an invasive test like a colonoscopy or three cases they actually did surgery so there were women who had sort of a scare and had to undergo some kind of unpleasant testing and in the end they did not have cancer. What about false negatives people who had cancer but it wasn't detected by the split test whilst negatives would be the woman who's cancer was found with conventional screening or symptoms and not by the blood test? And so the idea. There is that while this will pick up more than the conventional approaches. That's right the researchers say. They're not saying this should substitute for these other approaches. It should be additive to conventional screening. And that's something they tracked among the women in study yet. One question they had is if women were getting this blood test. Would they think this blood test will find any cancer? I might have. I don't need to go get my mammogram. But they encouraged women to keep getting those mammograms and they went back later and they looked at their medical records and found out that they continue to get mammograms which is exactly what they hope to see because they did not want to discourage them from getting those tests one thing I found really encouraging from this study was You mentioned in one draft of your story that I saw that a women with ovarian cancer that it was detected very early in her and that is something that has proven really difficult to find before this is a really good example of what the tests ultimate goal is a woman who agreed to be on on video made by Geissinger system in her name's Rosemary and she talked about what happened to her which she signed up for. The study. Didn't think they were gonNA find anything. And then they told her she had a positive test so she came in for the imaging found out she had a stage one ovarian cancer which is very small the very earliest stages of cancer. She had surgery and she says in the video that she hasn't had any side effects and she looks really healthy and she's getting ready to go for a walk with her husband and that is really ultimately what this test is hoping to do because if it's caught early and you have taken out through surgery chances are you're gonNA cancer is gone for good. I mean not always but what's next for this type of testing more studies to kind of roll it out. Yes so that's a little unclear because if you want to do things right and you WanNa go out and give this test to everybody and the researchers who developed this test can see it being given us a test once a year when you get your annual exam while to get to that point you have to do a lot more research you have to look at whether it actually helps the people who take it live longer as a group than if they didn't take this test because for example it could be catching early. Tumors that would have been found before long anyway. So you know it's not worth the cost could be finding tumors that were never going to grow. And so that's not worth the cost either and it may involve removing tumor. Didn't really need to be removed. The way you answer that question how it affects the overall survival of the people taking it is you do have very long study over many years loss of people where you have to get tested one group that doesn't and you look at the end of the ten years or whatever it is to see if more people are still alive from the group that took the test makes. It seem like this isn't going to be ruled out any time soon to clinic near you. Well that could still happen. Because for example there's another company developing this kind of testing grail and they are to starting a big prospective study like the one that was done by Hopkins and Pennsylvania. And they're talking about possibly commercializing their tests in a year so so even though it hasn't been through that sort of very rigorous long-term study it shows whether it increases survival. They couldn't end up selling it and it might not be covered by your healthcare. You have to pay for it yourself. But people could be asking their doctors to get it and one person. I talked to said the issue. There is her patients come in with tests. They'd had done in that way. That haven't really been validated. And they want her to do something about it and the question is will doctors know what to do with this will be meaningful for patients care. Art Thank you so much Jocelyn through welcome Sarah. Good to talk with you. Jocelyn Kaiser is a staff writer at science. You can find a link to her story and the related research paper at science MAG DOT org slash. Podcast STAY TUNED FOR AN INTERVIEW WITH TIM O. Reinhold about comparing the sun's activity to other similar star search. This week's episode is brought to you by Q. Eko KIMIKO CREED SUPER COOL hands on projects designed to expose kids to concepts in steam. That's stem plus art and design all from the comfort of home. Ky-ko's mission is to help kids build confidence creativity and critical thinking skills and have a blast doing it. Each crate is designed by experts tested by kids and teaches a new steam concept. You can sign up for an ongoing subscription or purchase single crates at strike your interest or both head to the Cuban coast store to shop by age and interest search for bestsellers store. Exclusives and find the perfect fit for the kid in your life. Each box comes with all the supplies needed for that month. Project Plus easy to follow instructions and more enriching content. Choose from a bunch of different topics designed for all ages with Ky-ko's hands on art and science projects. Kids can engineer a walking robot. Blast off a bottle rocket explore colorful kid-friendly chemistry and a whole lot. More all from the comfort of home. They have everything you need to make steam seriously fun delivered to your doorstep. Get your first month free on select crates at qb Co dot com slash magazine. That's K- I W I C O dot com slash magazine. This week in Science Tim O. Rien home colleagues. Write about how. The Sun is a lot less variable than similar stars. T MOS here to talk about how they figured this out and what it might mean team. Oh there are these records of the sun's activity going back a long time hundreds of years. And even there's one case where we have a nine thousand year data set on changes in activity of the Sun. Where do these values come from the hundred years that you mentioned so this is from sixteen hundred something of fifty something so this is when the telescopes and vendors and Galileo really used for example already to draw sunspots so derek exists drawings like several hundred years old from sunspots on the sun and this is one evidence for magnetic activity and then people started to take records of the sunspots and Yeltsin since eighteen hundred eighteen? Also we have really good coverage of these. So this is the magnetic activity basic need the number of spots on some other timescale scale that you referred to the nine thousand years this is from cosmic isotopes. So does this from ice cores and tree rings exactly. Why are you looking into this? What this question up. We are studying the sun and other sun like stars particular and one way to compare the sun to to figure something out about the to compared to Sun with other Saas which are like the sun symbol. Amass OUR TEMPERATURE. Arabia's something like this therefore we studied Kepler's laws which are similar in all the parameters that could constrain for example the effective temperature especially also the rotation period of the Star we measured the variability of these stars and founded there exists stocks which are much more variable than the sun although the star saw similar and all the other parameters right and this has been something people had thought was going on for a while. Yes exactly the basic question is as our son quieter than other stars or is it similar to us and is one question that we wanted to address to answer how people looked at this. Before in other stars on the one hand you can measure for the metric variability so this is just observing the style for quite a long time when be measured is the rotational variability of the sun so on rotational time scouts like a month or so so the sun spins around once a month? Your roughly twenty seven days. Yes and then. If you observed the sun for long enough then you can measure the variability of dislike pref light so the brightness of various because we have dark spots on the sun and the sun rotates towards us than become starker and if it rotates spots rotate away from us so then becomes brighter again. So you can more or less. Think of sine wave if you want to so changes in activity are visible because dark spots. Show up sometimes. How does this darkening relate to activity your origin of these exploits magnetic field which emerges to the surface? The Sun has eleven year cycle so every eleven years very active and becomes inactive comes active against that is like a very clear signal there but we were studying the rotational variability on shorter timescales. And Calm Time. There'd be less difference as it rotated from one side to the other but in active side. There'd be a lot more differences. You'd see a lot more variability. In how bright the Sun was when the rotational times gosta destroyed. Yeah how did you collect information on other sun like stars we took data from the nauseam mission which looked for for planets around other stars. The good thing about cells copacetic also monitored the brightness of hundred thousand stars among these there are many solar like stars. We studied the very ability of almost three thousand dollars. Final sample which are sold alike than we determine the rotational variability on for your time base when Kepler is looking for EXO planets. It's looking for changes in brightness in stars so how is what you're doing different from that of the planet orbits a star and then move in your line of sight so this is just a very short signal in time. It's just like a the sudden drop in the brightness whereas the rotational variability of signal is a very different signal at transit of blended much more periodic than the rotational variability for example Clearly distinguish signals were the stars that you looked at for this study all rotating for about ten percent of sample we have rotation periods measured for the stars. These are the stars which are interesting because we found that most of the star sweat rotation period could be determined. He styles are much more active than the sun so whereas the other ninety percent where we don't know the rotation period because the signal is not Berwick enough or they just don't have spots the very much more like the son you found that when you are able to determine the period how fast. They're rotating that they had a lot more variability in the four year that you looked at them yes exactly. So we know the rotation period. They're a lot more variables so there are five times more variable than those when we couldn't measure their addition period but there also exists stars which are up to ten times if our son has a big spot on it. How long does it take to appear and then disappear is there? Is it like a year? Is it like a month? I mean how. How quick is this activity? This is the problem with the sun because the sunspots have sometimes shorter lifetimes than one rotation period so if a spot appears than it rotates away from you and if it doesn't come a gun because the meantime yeah that's the problem. Yeah I got it. So what how does those data sets the humans drawings of the sun over a couple of hundred years and this nine thousand year data from Ice Cores and tree rings? How do those compare with what you found in your study? Do they match up these recordings basically show you the eleven year? Solar cycle and the solar cycle can be dated back nine thousand years or six hundred over four hundred years and we showed in our study that this is also consistent if you take current data measure the variability so this nicely alliance with a magnetic activity so you can really take the the brightness variability as a proxy for magnetic activity could our son be in a lull could it actually you know have a period of extreme variability coming up sometime. This is one possible explanation of our results. We showed that there is a nice distribution of these very abilities. The stars where we could measure the rotation period these basically populate too high variability edge so it is possible that the son wants becomes much more active because we cannot distinguish the sun from all these other stars so this is just one possible explanation but timescale is hard to say. I mean ninety. Nine thousand years to son was more or less normal as it is no but my thousand years is nothing for for star like a second for human. Yeah thank you so much team. Oh yes are you. T more reinold is a post doctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research you can find a link to his paper at science mag dot org slash podcast and that concludes this edition of the Science. Podcast if you have any comments or suggestions for the show right to us that's is podcast at a s dot. Org You can listen to the show. I'm the science website at science mag dot org slash podcast. Dariel find links to the researcher news discussed in the episode. And of course you can subscribe on overcast. Stitcher spotify Pandora Apple podcasts. And many other places. The show was edited and produced by Sarah Crespi with production help from prodigy. Meghan Cantwell and Joel Goldberg. Jeffrey Cook Compose Music on behalf of Science magazine publisher triple. As thanks for joining us.

cancer lung cancer Sarah Crespi Jocelyn Kaiser staff writer Jocelyn Hi Johns Hopkins University Pennsylvania Kepler spotify Thyroid Lymphoma Geissinger researcher TIM O. Reinhold Max Planck Institute for Solar Eko KIMIKO Jocelyn
Pulsar woman: It's not a bird, it's not a quasar, it's...

Science Friction

35:56 min | 1 year ago

Pulsar woman: It's not a bird, it's not a quasar, it's...

"This is an ABC podcast scientist. Have you felt this looking back. I think I was suffering from imposter. Syndrome quite convinced they were going to throw me out. We've all felt at heavyweight but on still bold Iva to he this particular person I've as words and resolve to do my best so that when they threw me out I wouldn't have a guilty conscience. The thing is heard. Bist was seriously impressive. Welcome two sides friction in national sights wake across Australia on the Tesha Mitchell so this episode begins in the late nineteen in sixty s at the radio observatory in Cambridge in nineteen sixty seven the new instrument was perhaps the least glamorous tennis cope ever built. They colluded washing line. Describe where at Cambridge University and it was to be operated fulltime by one person ago the graduate student who helped to build it Jocelyn Bell and Jocelyn Bell now Dame Jocelyn Bell Burnell elating astronomer with along and a lustrous Korea is on the cusp of a warping discovery very annoyed L. Prize winning find in fact using a telescope. She's helped to build from scratch one designed to pick up radio frequency signals from an Atta space doesn't look anything like the Csiro Parks Telescope which is a big dish. This looks more like some sort of agricultural frame a a big version of what you'd find in vineyard. Maybe a vineyard that doesn't grow grapevines instead. It's sprouts radio aerials. Yes in fact more than two thousand of them. It was huge fifty. Seven tennis courts would have fitted into that area. You were building this. Yes they were actually using this telescope to look for quasars because they twinkled this thing specially designed to pick out twinkling things mm-hmm that one particular set of twinkling things court Joscelyn's I and she went on to detect pulse is for the first time time one two three four the first four ever identified by humanity. She's going to tell that incredible story. He end end what pulsars these dense energetic hearts of collapsed or did stars have allowed us to understand about the universe but also more like how growing growing up amidst the troubles of Northern Ireland shaped her life and how Jocelyn reconciles quaker faith with her scientific valleys days but I want to start with what first happened when her and her supervises discovery was announced to the world because get ready to GASP ASP when you head worked at the discovered pulses. You got a lot of attention. It was sort of extraordinary position for each day student to being you were in the media. You were being interviewed by journalists. What was it like bit. If a baptism some of fire I imagine there was a lot of interest by journalists. What was the first reaction of Supervisor Dr Tony Hewish. It's absolute nonsense. You don't believe this at all. It must asked me something artificial. Nothing nature could do this so you're just believe it as long as you possibly can and typically the interview would have both my thesis adviser. visor Tony Hewish and myself there and here we can see Dr Tony Hewish who will tell us more fight it and they'd ask Tony Hewish about the astrophysical significance of this discovery with optical telescopes when is limited to arrange observation about here was made. It has kind of got a greater distances. Everybody's first three actions were that it must be manmade and then they turned to me for what they called. The human interest second reactions not really voice very lied. Were were. Perhaps it's little green men another civilization. This was really as a young female sex object. What were my measurements bust waist hips AP's please. How tall was I would. I describe myself as Blonde Brunette or blonde hair. Colors were allowed. Apparently how many boyfriends did I have at wants. It's all this kind of thing not an ounce of science in it was pretty grim and I would have loved to have been really rude to to them particularly the photographers who asked if I could undo some more of my blouse buttons for them. You know you're a Grad student haven't even written your thesis. You'd need references assist from your lab to get another job. You haven't got another job. I couldn't afford to be rude to them. Did you supervise a saying no I just I forgot what my vital statistics were. Just didn't know willfully regard willfully forgot. Yes very discovery of pulsars for which you played need. A decisive role is a most outstanding example of how in recent years our knowledge of the universe has been dramatically extended did so therefore. I don't quite understand of not understood why you haven't become embittered about what happened next. In nineteen seventy seventy four you'll supervisor and a colleague won the Nobel Prize for the discovery that you had been a K- part of you with the second author on that paper and yet you. You seem to have been perpetually philosophical magnanimous about that. Your name was not on that. Nobel prize is and yet you were a K. member are but I was a student on the Nobel Committee didn't look at students. Do you think that's the reason why Yes oh yes. Yes yes novell. Winning work happens in people's Twenties and thirties. That's well known yes but the there's a supervisor around an electoral ritchie the key figure the picture that we used to have way back of her science was done was a senior male often with a fleet of Minions Nyan Speedy Grad students or technical help or what have you and if the thing was successful. The supervisor took the credit. If the thing was unsuccessful the supervisor took the blame on the other. People just didn't feature. He's what Jocelyn Supervisor Antony Hewish said of the win without Jocelyn lighter onto the baby a a I mean my analogy really is a little bit like when you when you when you when you when you plan to ship of discovery and you go off and somebody up the mouse tied says Landho- that's great but I mean who actually aw inspired it and an conceived it and decided what to do when and so on I mean there is a difference between skipper and crew an controversy for many he told the BBC this to to be honest. I didn't think it would matter who'd be my student. I mean it was a serendipitous discovery because such a piece of equipment had been set up. I mean the discovery pulses was unavoidable. Once that survey had begun that was the way the Nobel Committee was thinking at the time to agree with that no I don't talk chilly and when I've had students working with me their their name has gone I on the papers for instance because they're the ones whose careers need launching but that wars the picture of science for quite a while so it wasn't about gender. You don't think it was about high rocky. Yes they didn't know my gender. They didn't really need to know my gender. I was only a student is in many of beg to differ and think that you will deliver grinding justice yeah but I've done done very well artificial because I've got every other price that moves a lot more fun because there's parties most years and possibly a lot. Let's start lists dodgy than a noble prize with all the formality that goes with that not just the formality the aftermath you're expected to a half wise opinions on everything under the Sun because you're a Nobel Prize winner in something says a lot of pitfalls there but let's go back to the actual discovery of pulsars the team wasn't looking for what they found back in nineteen sixty seven and and if it wasn't for Joscelyn's acute is they may well have missed a weeds hit of signals altogether. The University of Cambridge had one computer the whole university it had less memory than a laptop today and unoccupied a big room. You know it was really really primitive and very few people had time on its we certainly didn't so our data kmart on reams of paper chart rows and rows of paper chart with red squiggly lines over it and I read these squiggly lines to get my data yes. This is the thing about astronomy which intrigues me visit. Uh It's so abstract in many ways you feeling in the dock with the help of your dad with the help of numbers with the help of charts what's and you'll try to read meaning into that data extraordinary meaning so you get these charts and what was that moment when you thought yeah well. I was being incredibly thorough and most of the things I so I could understand but there was one this one one little anomaly occupied really a very small fraction one in one hundred thousand but it was on the normally that Kinda stuck in my brain onto finally my brain twigged. I'd seen this anomaly before and then you could go back through the relevant bits of charred. Co Yes it was there on that day. Owen Owen it might have been there on that day but it didn't actually notice it but it was absent for three or four in between and absent for another two or three and then here's the one I've just seen a blip well well. I I called it scruff. It was a little bit of signal. That didn't make sense. It wasn't what I was meant to looking for and it wasn't the kind of interference you know that you working with radio will be aware of so yeah okay so you have this little bit of scruff scruff and then what do you do you know. How do you probe further. You've got this telescope pointed deep into the universe yeah and you don't really we know what you're looking at. One of the first things we did was to get an enlargement of the signal about the wretched thing whatever it was went on strike for a month and then finally one day we got it and I thought it was a string of pulses blip blip blip blip blip blip. Yes because pulses are almost like time. Cape is in the universe aren't they. This make entity of course the first thing is you think the something wrong with the kit so you're busy checking it out and that was the really scary bit for me because I don all the wiring and I thought my God I've got some wires cross literally. They are going to throw me out. We'll come back to that imposter syndrome feeling that it's shocking but understandable yeah that this could have banning therence with the telescope from some earthly object it could have been except upped the stars. Don't keep a twenty four hour clock. The stars Keeper twenty-three are fifty six minute clock. They get almost half an hour earlier earlier every week. I'd been seeing this stuff whatever it was for a few months by then so it looked as if it went run with the stars the question was what artifact could mimic that motion so what is a pulse shooter had she come to know water pulsar actually actually ease in the universe this this sort of dead star if you like. I mean energetic for for date object but a dead star Star. That's exploded and kind of collapsed in on itself. That's right yes. It actually took a work by quite a few astronomers depend on what they were but one of the important things was finding one in the middle of a big glowing massive gas called the Crab Nebula in the Constellation Taurus and we knew that was the remains of a star that had exploded about two thousand years previously and we knew there was something funny looking in the middle so when that turned out it to be a pulsar that kind of made sense so we recommend it was one of these big stars that explodes in the explosion the core of the star gets compressed I and shrinks right down to be about ten kilometers radius tiny in in this game or of a universe absolutely tiny and yet. They're quite massive so so. They are incredibly dense yeah did I he he described once the the density of a neutron star pulsa at least is he's the same I help people imagine it's the seven billion people on the planet shot into the head of thimble. Yes pushed into a sewing thimble. That's right doc nominal but that's only the average density. The center is much more dense. It's just impossible to fathom it is it's unimaginable. Schnabel Yeah and yet you spent your laugh imagining such things. Why did they discovery this discovery that you made with colleagues. How is it become a portal onto the universe since it's useful for testing Einstein's theories as well as having very interesting interesting physics inside itself you we've already alluded to the density and produces some very extreme physics so that's interesting but but these things also have very strong gravity and so we've been using them to check out Einstein's theories of gravity which so far checkout remarkably really well gravitational waves Atlanta's hall size black holes of sort of the sisters of pulsars. If you like black hose alike the big sisters sisters big brothers pulsar isn't massive enough to collapse itself into a black hole but if it gathered onto it a lot of material at probably they would collapse into a black hole so this quite close relationship there but for me one of the really exciting things was they find gravitational national waves from a pair of neutron stars orbiting each other and as they orbits they send out these gravitational waves they get kosher and kosher and they finally merge urge in one quite strong burst of gravitational waves gravitational waves those ripples in the fabric rick of Space Time were I predicted by on Stein and I take it back in Twenty fifteen making big headlines in twenty seventeen. The detection action of gravitational waves after the merging of two neutron stars made the news too when neutron stars been super super fast. I they become pulsars. Jocelyn You mentioned a couple of times imposter syndrome. It's interesting to hear you acknowledge that now now you know you've seen laid a rich and fruitful career if they president of the Royal Astronomical Society President of the Institute of Physics President of the Royal Society of Edinburgh trail-blazing path in all of those arenas as a as an astronomer end as a woman and yet the impostor hostessing drum has felt potent to you from that time why yes certainly when I was a Grad student I started life life in the northern part of the UK Northern Ireland Scotland north of England and suddenly almost by accident but I thought I find myself in Cambridge which is way darned. South frightfully cultured very suave. Everybody's very confident and I feel a a bit like a a Yoko from the outback you know now. I have subsequently realized that the Suave NECE and confidence is entirely an act but they did it on on us myself from the provinces. I wasn't savvy enough to Suss that out initially and I thought oh they're terribly bright. I'm not that bright. They've made a mistake admitting me. They're going to discover their mistake and they're going to throw me out. I I know work in Oxford University and this is something something that in places like Oxford you have to look out for with new student yeah profound anxiety and I think women yeah really take that to heart. Yes I think women I'm in a more open to it than men highly self critical yes and perhaps less good at putting a brave face on it to be honest tomorrow. Aquatic Childhood Northern Ireland Belfast born born while the Second World War was being waged still worn born while Northern Ireland was wrestling with it signed deep divisions with the troubles that shape here the net result was I wanted out and a teenager. I couldn't get out fast and we lived in a small town where everybody knew everybody else. Where you were your parents daughter I find that claustrophobic and it was a community where a lot of people were scared of science. I think because they were afraid it would contradict the Bible Bible. We parents weren't Catholic. They weren't Protestant. They were quakers. They were quaker quakers in Northern Ireland. Deliberately put themselves between the two communities as a bridge bridge. You get shot by both sides saw that's a burden to carry but it needs doing somebody's got to do it not generation quaker yeah weird science and science education feeding to the quake a world view as you were growing up the quaker worldview particularly in England was fairly liberal. Well very liberal and the attitude has been that as a quaker. You're not told what you have to believe. You're told to work it out out for yourself and it's also accepted that it's quite likely that your beliefs will evolve a bit as you mature so you actually say it is interesting parallels between the quantum onset as its cultivated as a community and the scientific mindset yes in both you're actually working relating to other people sometimes working with other people developing your ideas be it religious ideas or scientific understanding with with other people. I know a lot of people have a picture of a scientist as a alone male with a bad hairdo working in a garret but actually there's very very little of that good hairdos and they work in teams exactly yes so you're batting ideas around within the team mm-hmm to try and understand what's going on with what you're looking at or to try and understand why you're kid isn't working for instance so a lot of it is teamwork and in in quaker. ISM you'll find people saying well you know. I don't think I really believe that but you do. Do you think I do do I didn't use to but I think I do know on so that this interchange going on all the time but this nothing rigid in quaker ism that you you have to subscribe to provided you thought it out and got your position. Your position would be respected. I guess if you ended up with a position that was two different on every topic you might feel you were in the wrong place and take yourself off to some other denomination but not what's broadly the way quaker ism works where it is A. God then feeding your conception of the cosmological world well. I don't think anti believe in a creator God am. I don't think I believe in God that controls the world for you you know so. It's no good praying that you pass sure exam when you've done no work for it that kind of thing. I don't believe in an interventionist God but I think I do believe in God. That's kind of supportive sportive to help you through situations not by changing the circumstances but by strengthening you so it's a more intimate relationship relationship between God and yourself. Yes that's right an enabler amore divider yeah excellent. Thank you know Tasha Yup interesting. It was an interesting interesting time when you were growing up not lace because the backdrop of Northern Ireland's troubles within was there but in your taints I think when you were fourteen retain the Russians launched the first artificial satellites Putin again so that's phenomenal sort of situation to have around you and you turn up at high school and wake number one. What do you discover happens on Wednesdays. Oh yes that was very interesting and I think probably is typical of experience for women of my generation in the UK. It's the first week off secondary school and Wednesday morning morning. Message goes round the first year class that this afternoon the boys to such and such a room and the girls to another which I initially thought was sport Nasr by their separating us but in fact they sent the girls to the domestic science room to learn cookery needlework on the sent the boys to the Science Lab Learn Science Ni- choice no choice no discussion. That's just the way the universe was and I my parents had promised me that I'd get to do science in secondary school so I was very disappointed but the domestic science teacher wasn't hearing anything about any change. Thank you very much and I think the head teachers telephone got a bit hot because has not only did my parents call him but so did one of the local doctors who had a door in my class undead there was a third set appearance and so the next time the science class met there. Were three girls think this was a first the teacher made us sit right under his nose in right up against inst- his desk is clearly thought we were dynamite or something yeah dangerous dangerous. Yes going to disrupt the class if he didn't keep rely on us. We did physics. Stop first term without really an awful lot of effort. I came top of the class. Ha of course you had a very different experience when you ended up at a quaker boarding Schooling York doc and and over the years having talked a lot of scientists. It's often one K. teacher. Yes it has a defining influence in their lives jobs and that Boone's on well into their adult life. Yeah I was at a girl's boarding school and girls schools goes goes. Boarding schools often have problems getting science teachers and we did. We had a brilliant physics teacher who'd come out of retirement for a second time to to teach us but he was superb. E quickly recognized that I could do physics and on one of the things he allowed me to do which wouldn't be allowed by health and safety these these days is he allowed me to go into the physics lab in the evenings with nobody else around and play with the equipment. One of the things I decided to do was is to make a lovely big charter of the magnetic field Rhonda magnet and of course she takes more than one night so I started the first night working on the bench second night. I couldn't get it lined up to carry on and I couldn't work out why I suddenly realized the magnet drawer was under the bench where I was working on. All all these magnetic fields were coming through the bench and during the day people had been in the drawer. The magnets were all rearranged magnetic field was different and that's why I couldn't continue my plot a lot of the things you learn for yourself they really stick well they do and and and we don't often get to have that sort of self directed exploration in Hansson Science no now we wouldn't these days either in Britain because of health and safety yeah that's right and it's highly formulaic and it's all very structured election and stuck with curriculum. I'm not exaggerating somewhat but that was my experience I think that's probably true to a fair degree. Accept these days kids get to do projects which are a bit more open ended and self directed when you go to Glasgow University was at a shock then you'd been in this this girl school. You'd had a supportive physics teacher. You've been directing rounds. Experiments as a teenager was a shock to get inside that lecture hole whole way. You were the only woman in my final two years. I was the only woman in the earlier years where other women are aren't but for the junior and senior in your honors I was the only woman doing honors physics at that time in Glasgow. It was the inquest tradition that when a woman entered entered the lecture theatre all the guys whistled stomped catcalled Bangladesh ask made as much noise as possible and it's one thing facing that in a group of women and you know walking in together but walking in your own it was tougher but blushing of course would increase the volume of the noise and I discovered that you can control control your blushes. I've lost the technique but I know I could do it and I did. Do it. Regularly see you walk in. You know sorta pretending you don't hear offering no reaction to them. Just walk in and take a seat. You could've walked at that point and you didn't why because I knew at that stage in fat anew from my I mid teens that I wanted to be a radio astronomer and getting a physics degree was one of the steps central steps along that road so I had to get that physics degree dogged yep doesn't do badly in life lock engineering astronomy in your country and as probably early on the twelfth if women in no no no I can give you the figures good the figures I have worldwide figures from the International Astronomical Union and I find these figures very important because they prove behind tote the it's not women's brains that are deficient if you look at the worldwide data on women astronomy the word averages about seventeen percent female of professional astronomers under strategy is right on the world average. Wjr The other English. Speaking Countries are clustered just below Australia. This is the first hint that we're dealing with something cultural and then his Argentina Argentina is phenomenal. South American countries in general have quite high proportions of women so do the southern used to be Catholic it countries in Europe France Italy Spain whereas the northern European used to be Protestant countries they very very few women Germany and the Netherlands silence and right down the bottom surprise surprise are India and Japan which are in single figures what's going on in Argentina at something like video forty eighty percent. Isn't it yeah there. I think different things probably going on in different parts of the world. One issue is hope prestigious astronomy seen can have all the man gone to engineering because that's considered more prestigious which is is not why astronomy has quota women or is it because ause. Argentinian women's delivered near their parents and the parents can help with a child minding K. or is it because there are lots of state date childminding facilities or is it because this great diversity of incomes and there's a lot of poor women who are very happy to come in and be your nursemaid made cook do the laundry while you go off and be an astronomer. I think there's probably lots of different factors and different ones way in different countries race but it's really interesting to see that data and gradually over the years. All the numbers are ramping up. You know a percent or two every few years certainly the physics community which is the one I know best could benefit from more diversity diverse divall sorts not just gender because it's very well established. I know that if you have a research group that's diverse with people coming out the problem from different angles. It's likely to be more successful. Alana a more monochromatic group. Shall we say a less diverse group that that's now very well established in business in research and all sorts of various areas. It does need good management such a group. It's harder to manage than a group of people who think like you but his ultimately much much more successful so I think one of the things actually is to get more scientists trainers manage good managers of groups which I'll probably get lynched for saying but think actually that's important. We'll muddle bench. Scientists might good ladies but you have loved leading that sits aims. There are some bench scientists that probably won't be leaders but actually really an awful lot of people can be leaders with a little bit of encouragement and assistance along the way but yes. I have enjoyed it very much. Led a number of organizations changed number of organizations. Do you have the phrase here serial offender. That'd be a serial president. I quite like looking at how organizations are functioning and saying well. You know if we adjusted this just a little bit. It would actually go better and would never have discovered. I was good at it if I'd been a regular scientist a regular mail scientists without any disruptions to my career but because because I have to do lots of different things in my life of actually got quite a range of experience which turns out to be useful sometimes it is a benefit uh-huh to career breaks or doing other things you know the only job I could get was as a such and such so okay. We'll do this and let's do it to the best of my ability and see what I can learn from. It will make it work. Damn Jocelyn Bell Burnell. Thank you so much for joining me. It's vein such a trait to talk to you. Thank you Natasha and Dame Bell Burnell visited see Saros Parkes Radio Telescope for the first time while she was here in Australia. More of half of all the pulses that have been detected have been detected by parks national sights has landed and we are asking you to dive with a virtual reef this year it's going to help scientists understand and classify. Carl's on the Great Barrier Reef Bia citizen scientists head to ABC dot net dot what I use slash science week also coming up if you're in Melbourne from September science friction live is coming to the Melba Museum. I cannot white for that. Stay posted. We'll put the details on our website. Nick show. I'll be coming to you from Hobart Baker Straight Science Festival with Mona Fonda Data Mathematical Gambler dive wash love to hear from you. Tweet me at Natasha Mitchell and thank you to Melissa Mason Engineer Oh and before I go also hi for science wake the ABC science is bringing you a stack of unsung secrets from science and I thought I'd snake mining here. It is the Deacon Little Day Pie and there's always more to the story spices full of secrets. I love thinking about the wiring that keeps us going the national science where he's an unsung secret of science now. This year marks the seventieth anniversary of the death of a scientist. I whose name you know will really well. We all do then. I'm Einstein on Yup Malaysia marriage on Stein what what does that mean. Albert Albert Einstein the most recognizable scientists of the twentieth century if not ever he of quantum physics fame minute climb and a Nobel prize. No I really do may Malaika on Stein's first wife she and Albert made his science Gedin Gedin scenes uric and fell in love and I shared a love of physics to Malaysia had been one of the first girls in Austria Hungary to study high school physics and she was the only woman in the polytechnic class together in March nine hundred one Albert wrote how happy and proud I will be when the two of us together gather. We'll have brought our work on relative motion to a victorious conclusion. Why does he what's he signed me our work on relative motion now not too poor to find a point on it but that's the work that led to the famous special theory of relativity which describes the constant spate of law. Russian has spice and time intimately linked which led to the general theory of relativity which pretty much changed our understanding of the universe versa nearly everything in it multiple accounts of Elbert Malaya's loft to give a now confirmed by collaborated on scientific projects on mathematical problems wrestling with them lighting to the night and hers support his scientific career on track when he was flying when she became pregnant Senate Elbert road imagine how lovely it will be when we will again be able to work together totally undisturbed Malaya's name never repeat on any of Elwood's famous papers and her legacy is debated to this day more Shia sounding board or a formidable collaborator as Elba's find skyrocketed. They relationship crashed Albert had an affair with his cousin Elsa who relied married Helena. My Big Albert is now a fairly famous. Albert has devoted himself completely to physics. It seems to me that he had a little time. If any family meriva raised their two sons one with debilitating schizophrenia and she night out mourns the loss of their daughter who other was adopted dad who died. It's not clear when they divorced. Malaysia is reported to have conceded making contributions work public but Albert Oh but pushed back calling her a non entity stating no one will pay the least attention to your rubbish. Most of the letters from Elba to Malaysia have been being preserved though they were suppressed from publication bodies estate for decades sadly though few of Malaya's latest to Elbert remain slow parts of her early life in science along side him will always remain a sacred an unsung sacred

scientist Albert Albert Einstein Nobel Prize Northern Ireland Jocelyn Bell Australia Cambridge University Supervisor Dr Tony Hewish Jocelyn supervisor ABC Joscelyn Cambridge Stein president England Jocelyn You Csiro Parks Telescope tennis Bist
Keeping Love Alive During Deployment (Part 1 of 2)

Focus On the Family Daily Broadcast

25:01 min | 2 years ago

Keeping Love Alive During Deployment (Part 1 of 2)

"I'm here. Asking people to define the word. Appreciate it's like when something goes up in value. It's telling someone they did a good job. Focus on the family invites you to give a gift that appreciates. When you give a non cash gift of stocks, bonds or mutual funds. You'll avoid a capital gains tax get into action and help families thrive for generations to come. Find out more about non-cash gifts just visit focused planned giving dot com. This is John Fuller. And please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programmes on podcast app or website military are deployed sometimes for a long period of time. And how do you stay connected in motionlessly when you're half a world away? That's a very good question from Dr Gary Chapman, and you'll hear more from him and is co-authored Jocelyn green. On today's episode of focus on the family. Your host is focused president and author Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. We talked about the five love languages in various iterations and applications but with Veterans Day coming up on Sunday and remembrance day in Canada. We wanted to honor our military families by returning to this program exploring how the love language is applied military families, so often we get mail from listeners who are part of our armed forces. And we appreciate each. Every one of you, and the letters and emails that you send a you'll ask us to address some of our content toward you because you live with some very unique circumstances. And while this program is directed toward you there's application for all of us that have careers that call them away from home and to extensive travel, for example, a lot of professional truck drivers listen to us too. And we appreciate you. We know you're on the road for very long periods of time and many other vocations call for travel on the road, quite often. The things you'll hear today will apply to you. And our guests is I said are Dr Gary Chapman and his co author Jocelyn green. Dr Chapman is the author of the five love languages, and he wanted to create a special edition for military families, which he did with Jocelyn, and we're going to pick up this focus on family broadcast as Dr Chapman gives a recap of the five love languages. Well, one of them is words of affirmation this verbally picking out. Something about the person that you appreciate in just saying, do you really appreciate what you did from the are you look tough tonight, this whatever, and you can write the words, I guess, you could even sing the words, but it's using words to communicate that you affirm the other person, and then there's gifts it's universal to give gifts as an expression of love. My academic background is anthropology. We have never discovered a culture where gift giving is not an expression of love. That's really interesting court us as human beings. It's something we do. Yeah. Because the gift says they were thinking about me, look what they got from me so gifts, and then there's quality time giving the person your undivided attention. I'm not talking about husband and wife sitting on the couch watching television together someone else says your attention. I'm talking about sitting on the couch with the TV off looking at each other. And. Talking with each other quality time physical, touch, which you mentioned already, and then acts of service doing something for the other person that you know, they appreciate your remember the L saying actions speak louder than words for some people. That's true not for all people. But if that's their language actions speak louder than words, well, any we have a quiz to find out what your left languages, we've got over at focus on the family dot com. And as we talk about the five love languages and the military Jocelyn, you've got military experience you married into the military. And so you're probably thinking. Yeah. This makes a lot of sense for me. And it's been helpful. Helpful when we were in the military. My husband was in the coast guard, he's no longer active duty. But when we were we were not familiar with the five love languages. So my stories are not this is how it changed our marriage when we were in military. My stories are more along the lines of this is how we did things poorly. And this is how we can rethink things. My love language is quality time, and that's hard when your husband's C three weeks four weeks home two weeks gone again back again, Gary lemme ask that question of you because I had two questions that popped into my mind when you were talking about the love languages, generally one. Is there a gender distinction? Two more women fall one direction and men and other direction or is it gender neutral that you know, human beings express, their love language in a variety of ways. Jim I'm often asked that question, and to be very honest. I don't know you don't see it. I've never done research to indicate that some of these are more female, some are more male. The important thing is to discover your love language. I do know that a man can have any one of these five as his primary love language and a woman can have any one of the five. So they may be some that ten more to male or female, but I haven't really tried to figure that out. Well, then you look at Joscelyn's application. I mean, I would think in the military, particularly if your love language is quality time or physical tach that's gonna put a lot of demand on the relationship. Are there degrees of severity within the love languages in? It will stress couples more than others. I think any one of them if it's your primary love language, and you don't receive that love language, it can be deadening emotionally in the relationship because when we feel empty when we feel they don't really love me are wonder if they love me life begins the look pretty dark and one of the reasons that motivated me to work with joslin all writing this book is that there's so many military couples the divorce is much higher is, you know, among military marriages, and wherever I've gone, the last fifteen years military chaplains of said to me, you know, we use your book all the time the five love languages, but if you could write a military addition, which speaks to the unique factors of military life. It would be really helpful to us and when Johnson got together, and I realized she had this background and she's a writer an excellent writer. We both interviewed a lot of military couples and got the ideas that we. We share in this book on how to stay connected when you are deployed these languages can be spoken. I know it may seem impossible physical touch quality time it can be done. And we're sharing that in this book at Jason. I'm gonna come back to your story. Because when I read it I was like, oh my goodness this poor girl. And what I mean by that. You lived it you and your husband were married and two days later. He's deployed two days after you got married is that right? Two days later, we moved from Washington DC to Alaska. Okay. That in itself is big one month anniversary, he kissed me goodbye and went to see for how long not long, according to military standards that was maybe a month or two and I had the privilege of moving our furniture into our house. Once it came and painting a house without him. And how did you? I mean, again, you're a person who your heart yearns for quality time. And here you are married. Your dream fulfilled. You met you man. And you know, life is going to be fill in the blank you had some expectations. And then all of a sudden move in two days from an urban city like Washington DC to Alaska, which many of us would say, that's a great move. But then to to lose him a month later to be deployed, and then to have everything kind of crash on you, how did you feel emotionally? Well, I'd like to point out that it was not a surprise when we do marry an active duty military person. It's not like we expect to have all of our time with that person. And I think all of us would say we made the decision that we would rather have some time with this one person that we believe God has chosen for us then to have all of our time with the wrong person. Hey, let's true. Love your that. It is true. I've got a challenge you a little bit though. Because I think generally in marriage, we all go in with expectations of marriage being a certain way, and it's going to meet our needs in a certain way. And whether you're in the military or just a civilian marriage can be tough and your expectation. Nations aren't met. So I applaud the fact that you're aware of what to expect but underneath that. And Gary mentioned it military marriages suffer higher divorce rate than the civilian side. So something's happening there. Well, I'll tell you what. Which of my expectations was not net. We all expect to point it to be hard. I don't think that I had any idea that when he came back that things would not be perfect. I think we all expect that when we have that reunion. It will feel like honeymoon all over again, we will just pick up where we left off. But we have to learn how to be a couple again Mather than to individuals. And that's where my expectations went unfulfilled, especially since I'm a quality time person when he came home. I was expecting to have him to myself for a certain period of time before he went off and size friends. But he. Had spent a tour in Alaska before he had community there. He had friends you'd come home and after being on the ship for weeks at a time p want go out and see his friends Hewitt invite me to come along with them. But in my mind that does not count. Some of the tension really came out. Did you communicate that to him? How did you guys struggle through that? I probably was not very gracious about it. And because we had not read the five love languages. I was not able to articulate clearly, hey, Hon. My lovely quality time. Don't you're earning for something. So what happened was I grasped after it. I wanted to spend time with him alone. And he felt suffocated might not because he did not understand. And he had a different love language. The which I was not meeting. What is his lead like service home? Well, man, that's incredible. Think for a military homefront spouse, we do acts of service all the time. Right. When they're gone. We take care of the property in the home. We did not have children at that time. But that would be part of it. But somewhere in our first year of marriage. There were some things around the house. I decided once the man's job. I did not wanna do that. Because I grew up watching my dad do that type of thing, and by golly, I was just going to make a list. How did that go? Maker. Exactly, john. From his perspective. He would be on the ship. And he was exa which second in command. So he was doing things fixing problems all the time with no break, come home. And I would say so glad to see you, by the way, this is broken fix it. That did not communicate love to him. It would have been better. If I had just called someone if I couldn't figure it out myself, just call someone hire someone to come fix tests. Is that true, John I say Amen to that. Jocelyn is really putting your finger on it. And again the application here goes well beyond military. Marriages the stress of it, though is probably heightened in that military environment that talk about that expectations unmet expectations. Let's let's dig into this, right? Where Jocelyn and her husband were at that moment. What could they have done to begin to set the path in front of them in such a way that it would help them strengthen their relationship? Well, I think if couples understand some of the dynamics that we're talking about in this book in terms of how do you reconnect when you come back? This is the key issue. Staying connected. However, while you're apart is a big issue because if you can stay connected emotionally while you're apart. Then when you come back it's much easier to reintegrate back into the relationship. But I think recognizing what Joslyn said that it's not gonna be a second honeymoon. When you get. Back together. It's going to be friction. It's going to be some tension there. And if we simply recognize that and talk about it. This is the big thing talk about it. Honey, this is the way I felt last night when you did. So and so you might preface it by saying don't wanna hurt you failings. A no this is all kind of new to us again, we're getting readjusted here. But last night when you did this is the way I felt it's those kind of conversations that help you get back together reconnect mostly and learn how to be a team again. Because when he's deployed she's running the whole show. He comes back. He's on the team. But what role is gonna play? Now. Just let me ask you. How many it rations of that process? Did you and your husband have to go through before you begin to think about it? What's not working here? How many times did you give them a less than he looked at you? Like, what are you doing? I mean, I'm sure it was more than one. It was. More than once, but not many more fast learner fast learner. But when he looked at me, and there was just a certain expression on his face like he just looked weary and clicked for me. I was able to read his face. And when I thought okay, I need to forget what I grew up with in my home. This is different military marriage is different from civilian marriage. You described for me his emotional state coming off a tour when he would do his duty over weeks and months, and he would get back to the home describe where he was at emotionally as best as you can well he was not in a combat situation. So what I'm describing is not typical of many others who have these additional stressors of combat trauma. He was very tired. There are some search and rescue issues there were he was just on all the time as Exo you're always on. On. And so when he comes home he wants to relax. He certainly doesn't wanna honeydew list. He wants to connect with people. He wants to be able to have fun and being his own personality because he had to train himself to fit into the Exo personality to just be very to carry out warders to do the mission. That's not naturally who he is. And so that's very draining thing to do. There are so many applications of these five love languages that. Dr Gary Chapman is written about. And we have him along with his co author Jocelyn green talking specifically today on focus on the family about the impact of military life on a couple's relationship in Jim. We still have a few minutes for those in our gallery to interact with their guests. And we didn't mention it earlier, but we have several military families observing the conversation today. And I wonder if any of them might have something on their mind that Dr Chapman or Jocelyn might be able to help with. All right. So do you folks have a couple of questions? Hi, I'm Katherine, and I've been a military spouse for twenty years. Thank you. Has been deployed five times. The first appointment was much different than this one. We're much better at it now. But in it, we have become very independent and found that I'm not very perceived as the submissive life, and we are facing eleven to twenty three months apart, and what kind of comments could you give us becoming this business of life. When he doesn't live here. Wow. That is a heartfelt question. Thank you so much for that. Thank you for your service. Your family service, Gary voice, she speaking to so many people with that question because it's just it's the nature being separated taken the bowl by the horns, and you're getting things done, and it just doesn't feel like that's my role any longer. How does a woman particularly find her biblical position in her marriage in a good and healthy way? Let me remind you first of all this submission is not a female word Christian word scripture, say submit yourselves, one to another before it says submit yourselves to your husbands and husbands love, your wives. As Christ loved the charge. Each of us has to have an attitude of submission to the other. It's very close love and submission, very close. They're both sacrificial. They're both thinking about the other person. How can I help you? What can I do to make your life easier? How can minister to you? How can I be a better husband or a better wife? But I think however coming back to this specific situation. That when we are deployed and the wife is running the whole show when he's gone, and then he comes back. It's difficult for her to know, what would the helpful for him for me to give up, and what would be helpful to him for me to continue doing, right. It's a matter of kind of rethinking the whole issue of who is going to do what in this relationship is it necessary to the sounds, very practical. But you sit down over the course of the week or so each evening after the kids are in bed, and you actually begin to write a list of these things and agree on who's going to do what that sounds almost too perfunctory. But is that helpful I think it can be very helpful because it's concrete when you write it down concrete. And so I would suggest that you sit down individually and let him like a list of the things that he thinks that he would like to be responsible for now and her Michael list of what she thinks she would like to be responsible for and if you think you're going to share them. You know, you could put the other person's initials by them. We're both going to buy groceries together, or whatever, you know. And then get together and look at your list and see where you agreed. And maybe you disagreed where you disagreed. You talk about it, and you negotiate it, and you say well for the next three months, we try it this way, you'll do that. And so now, you're both on the same page in terms of who is going to do what this is often a point of conflict, whom we don't do that when they're not clarified. We run into each other. Because he thought she was going to do it. She thought he was going to do it. And nobody did well in frankly, that's where that the Christian communication if I could call it that that's where we can miss us submission. Yeah. Absolutely. We begin to budget each other with it. And that's not what the Lord intens with that. At all. Like, you said adjustment. You lived it. So speak from that experience. Sure. Well, I would say it is very difficult to come across as submissive wife when you are doing everything while your husband is not there. I think it really does come down to your attitude, for instance, if you know that your husband is not want you spending a certain amount of money, if you've got a budget respect that and don't go beyond it. That's just one example other people might look at military whites lifestyle and say, that's not a submissive way. Well, it looks different in the military marriage. You might before a deployment find out from your husband. What are the things that you just would like me to handle in your absence because I don't think that it deployed spouse really wants the wife to come to him and say, what do you want me to do this which I do about this? What do you do about this? I mean, there are other things on his mind. So if you come to him, you have a conversation before he leaves and say, what do I what should I do in my best judgement knowing what I know about your values and your principles where you stay. On this. And what should I really bring before you are attention and just hash this out. And I think a lot of it comes down to attitude, and frankly, some people are going to look at a military wife and say that's not submissive allow just taking let me ask you this. Because in her question, particularly what I heard was that almost fear that he's being deployed for a year. Maybe even almost two years at a time. I would think that fear is appropriate that even if you do a good job of hashing this out. You know, you're together for a few months, maybe and then he's gone again. It would create a new a guarded nece that could be unhealthy in natural. Because you know, I've been doing it. And I give all this back to you. And then you're gone. I feel abandonment. How do you manage that expectation of loss again? I think that's why it's important once you're getting ready for another deployment to sit down again. And talk about just what Johnson said okay now. How are we going to handle it this time? What do you want me to do my own? And what do you want me to bring to your attention? New car new house. I think you should bring it to his attention. You know, there's a whole lot of other things have to be done that perhaps she will do exactly what she did last deployment. Or maybe there'll be a few changes. So you're always tweaking it. So that both of you feel comfortable about what we're doing. We've talked a lot Gary about the five love languages, which the Lord really gave to you many years ago in the way that it's been applied here specifically with the military. I hope military families are lessening, and I hope they'll get a copy, and I would love to offer the book for any donation, John. If someone you know if it's just a dollar to cover the postage. That's great. And we wanna make that available to people. So that it would help them to cope with their environment. Thank you so much for being with us and for encouraging our military in this way. Thank you. Thank you. Next time. We'll have more ideas on how to love your spouse. When you just don't see each other, very often, certainly the case for military families as we've mentioned today. And of course, we're deeply grateful to each of you who serves your country. Get a copy of Gary and Justin's book, the five love languages military addition for gift of any amount when you click on the link in the podcast description and be sure to rate us on I tunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you'd like more help for your marriage journey whether you're just starting it out or perhaps your ten or fifteen years into it. Or you've been married for thirty forty or fifty years. We have a lot of great resources for you to keep the marriage going strong at our website, that's focused on the family dot com. On behalf of gym daily and the entire team. Thanks for listening to focus on the family. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. In the back of my mind. I didn't believe it can happen hurting, husbands, and wives. Share their stories of renewed hope from tending focus on the family's hope restored a marriage intensive counseling program for married couples. We were definitely messed up marriage was in full blown crisis. This was the last chance for us. Hope restored can give you in your marriage. Hope our premier Christian counseling program provides in-depth quality care that will make a difference in your life and your marriage. We now have the direction tools and roadmap. We need to productively works. You are damage and to heal our relationship. Find out more at hope store dot com. Scholarships are available even if the divorce papers already in process hopers stored can help you start a new God used hope restored to help start over number. And that's what we really need it. Find out more hope restore dot com or call one eight six six eight seven five two nine one five.

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Podcast #249  Documenting & Preserving Radio at HBCUs

Radio Survivor Podcast

58:51 min | 8 months ago

Podcast #249 Documenting & Preserving Radio at HBCUs

"Welcome to radio survivor. We're here for the love of, radio, and sound my name is Mundell Everybody Eric Klein here and hi I'm Jennifer weights. So today, we're going to dig into college radio, but we're going to dig into a set of colleges and universities. We haven't ever really touched on on specifically and those are historically black colleges and universities, which it should surprise nobody many of them also have radio stations, and then we're also dipping into their archives as they may or may not exist Jennifer what brought this on this topic onto your radar Lou. There was an article about an amazing project that's happening right now being led by Jocelyn Robinson and she is basically doing a survey reaching out to learn more about collections of archives at historically black colleges and university radio stations. And that piqued my interest because I am interested in college radio archives generally, and so I was excited to hear about this project that's taking a look at it very specific slice of college. Radio. Yeah. In one of the things the Jocelyn will explain to us is that. HP. As they're known often play this very pivotal role in in community life and in cultural. Life. For African Americans wear in places where these universities are situated, which sort of adds an. Additional layer additional magnification. I think to the to the importance of that work. So it's it's really great that just took some time to talk with us about that project. Yeah. I mean it's it's like everywhere you go a college station, I mean or a community radio station on a college campus or Integrated into a college campus is going to be a very useful way to understand a community to understand a place, and so the notion of preserving the sounds of college radio at historically black colleges and universities is definitely a very exciting story for us it radio survivor and what a great guest run the line with Jocelyn. Robinson the project director of the HP YOU radio station Archival Survey Project, Jocelyn, welcome to radio survivor. Thanks for having me. So you're in midst of a really exciting project to document a very specific type of college radio material audio at historically black college and university radio stations. I wanted to just first of all have you explain? What a historically black college and university is to our audience. Well, it's a designation that was established by the Higher Education Act of nineteen sixty five hsbc us, our colleges that were established prior to hundred, sixty four and their mission is to educate African Americans. That's that's pretty much it. So, Hec, you is the acronym, and so you're looking specifically at radio stations that are at HSBC us and so I'm curious what prompted the project? It's kind of a long story. I have a background in African American history and culture I. have. Worked with the African American Museum community for some time and at a certain point I switched to higher education and I. Have a master's degree in cultural studies with a concentration in race gender identity, and I have eight years of experiences a title three director at Historically Black College. title three is a an institutional development grant that's made through To to ABC's it goes through the president's office and it really is an. Influx of resources of federal resources across divisions in the universities and in two thousand thirteen, I took a production course at ISO. And got. Bit by the. Bug, the radio bug. What kind what kind of radio station is Waso? WASO is a public radio station that was originally founded at any college by students in one, thousand, nine, fifty eight, and there's a very robust community based program to train. Local people to make content for the radio. It's called community voices and got started in two thousand eleven and it's still going strong and has has trained probably several hundred people to make to make radio and of that. Those those folks you know a handful of us. are are devoted Automakers at this point in. In Two Thousand Fifteen I quit my day job to do it more. consistently, and at that time I had been working with WASO's archival. Material through the American Archive of public broadcasting. Pilot Project back in two, thousand, nine, ten, or so w ISO was able to digitize about three hundred hours of historical audio going back to the nineteen fifties but most. Most of it was in the sixties and Seventies. And also that into the eighties and was that. So that was like student radio material. For the most part, but you know there was it more from a student station into more of a community station and then into a public station. So had a bit of A. Trajectory in that that direction. So, much of the material was Civil Rights Era and into the Vietnam era. So really interesting stuff a lot of national figures. He came to the Antioch campus to speak with students to give lectures, etc, and the materials really fascinating. So I served as the as the station's archive fellow for several years and I produced a show called. Rediscovered radio. In which I used the archival audio to. Provide context for things that are going on in the world today and So it was a combination of interviews, the archival material in my own take on on things to some degree. And I just felt like. if Waso has such a rich. Trove of of historical material because frankly many of the voices in that collection are Martin Luther King Ralph Abernathy. stokely. Carmichael Alice. Walker. Gwendolyn Brooks Flow Kennedy the list is long. Wow And I've made pieces of around all of these folks and. So I felt like if Waso has a collection like this, what might exist at Is. Knowing that. Out of the hundred and five or so HPC's that's that still exist. There are about still in existence twenty, nine radio stations. And so a third of US have radio stations and I knew this because working at central state were WC issue is located. It is credited with having the first FCC license of an HBO. Station in nineteen, sixty two. So So I, I had a little bit of a connection there but I it was curiosity and so that curiosity was really Nurtured when I. Went Back to school after I. Quit my day job to get a Grad cert in archives and went to Wright state, universities, public history program, which is of very fine program and In the course of doing a class assignment I learned about a guy named Sam Br. Allow Ski. Who worked at the the Library of Congress and WHO had was quoted in a very interesting article that was in the rolling stone about digital preservation of of materials at a music recording studios, how reissues of the best of kind of albums was getting difficult because in the early digital era? there was very little Meta data attached to these early digital files and masters were being lost. And it was. It was difficult to to reissue some of these materials because various tracks were missing anyway. I thought that was fascinating and I thought he he sounded interesting. So when I googled him I found out that he was giving the keynote address at the very first radio preservation task force conference in Washington that's right. Yes I was there So I made a deal, I found out about it. I made a deal with my faculty to give me my midterms early. So I could go to the the conference with the promise that I would do a presentation on it when I got back and when I got there I sort of fell into that community of radio preservationists and Met Sonia Williams who is currently chairing the Communications Department at Howard University a longtime producer in Washington DC and I was invited to serve on the African American Civil Rights Radio Caucus of the of the task force which she chairs. And it so that you know the rest is history kind of thing I've I've been involved with that larger group talking about the issues of preservation of audio preservation and Just's. Having that curiosity again nurtured by. By folks who are curious themselves. Well and what I like about your project is you know I'm very interested in College Radio Archives in history and it's a bit overwhelming. So I liked that yours is at least finite, you know the number of stations that exist and and you can actually try to track them. So so that's what you're doing. You're you're trying to survey the landscape of what is housed at different historically black college and university radio stations. Could you could you describe a little bit? Is there a typical hp cu college radio station or are they just as diverse as every other college radio station? Well, they're just as diverse as HCC US they're incredibly diverse, they're large, they're small rural, urban, their public private. the radio stations are sometimes public radio affiliated with NPR sometimes commercial based. Some of them have a very strong relationship with their institutions as a teaching tool. some of them are a little bit more removed from that but. It. So they're diverse and and they'll the number is finite. It is a number that is something of a moving target and a shifting target because. in the I, know of at least three radio stations that have sold their licenses. and. One of them was Shaw University that was only in two thousand eighteen fit Ville State University in the in the UNC system sold theirs to WNYC in a two thousand fifteen. So there's a bit of urgency around at least identifying the the the landscape is you say Because, the FCC license is an institutional asset. And when an institution is at risk. which some HPC's are and many colleges are in this day and age that's that's not something that's unique to HPC's. But those assets can be turned into cash to keep the lights on and keep the doors open of of a college. So. which is one of the reasons why Waso Did the the the work put in the effort to? fundraise and and. Their own license and and Kinda strike off on their own, not so much because any college is at risk but. But the the landscape for Liberal Arts colleges is is sometimes pretty bleak. So Yeah that that doesn't have to be a factor in what goes on at the station. So Jocelyn Robinson is on the line we're talking about her project. Well, she is the project director of the HCC radio station archival survey project and and we're talking about what you're up to with with understanding this landscape of College Radio, Station Archives at historically black colleges and universities why why do you think it's so important to catalog the audio at these college radio stations Well there's a couple of different reasons and one of them is that HEC US tend to be keepers of culture in our communities in in black communities. particularly in the southeast, they are you know they to to my mind they are hallowed ground and believe it's incredibly important to to. Preserve and protect the legacy that that the institutions have and and as and as they are represented in their in their radio stations You know I. I think it's as simple as that they're they're important to their communities they're important to a larger Higher Ed the higher, the larger Higher Ed, universe and reporting to American history and culture. So you know. I think it's for me. It's it again it's kind of a a sacred. Duty to protect and preserve. Them. And can you can you give us a glimpse of some of what you've found so far as you've been going out visiting radio stations, interviewing people about their collections. Well. I. I have to say that I'm not finding what I had hoped to find initially which was. would have been collections. what I'm finding is I guess I use that word loosely? Yes. What? I'm finding is that it's in a number of cases fee institutions don't have the infrastructure for. Collecting. Historical materials that are related to their radio stations. the radio stations themselves I think are very much dependent on the general manager at the time. In some cases, there's two one or two professional staff. And keeping the service on the air is the priority. The next priority is is serving students. So. Everything else is peripheral everything else as auxiliary. And that. So that preservation piece. at. At a higher at instinct institution really falls to the Institute archives. And in many cases. I don't know if it's the ephemeral nature of radio or what? Exactly. But there isn't a relationship between the institutional archives, which primarily collects paper materials and and collections that are readily identifiable say as the president's papers or what have you. They aren't. Audiovisual materials necessarily, sometimes, some a few items might make it into the formal collections but that's been rare that I have have noted so far. And I have not had one hundred percent response rate with the initial survey. So there could be. Collections out there that I just don't know about yet. But for those that have responded and those that I have visited thus far. If there are. outdated his materials. They generally are few and far between they may be stored in an offsite location that no one has time to really go to or take me to at this point. And so I, I have found a handful of things but It's it's what it has done for me. Has, pointed out the incredible need for the radio staff and the Institutional Archives Staff. The. Library staff whomever is doing the the collecting on on campus to begin a dialogue. So that A preservation plans and disaster plans and all sorts of of of conversations can take place between the two. One of the things that is is doubly important is in addition to these historical materials these radio stations are producing content right this moment as we speak and at they have for the most part all switched to a digital platform so. That means that digital preservation is an added a need as well, and even having those conversations about about workflow about Metadata Schema about redundancy in in backing up, and that sort of thing those are conversations that also need to be had. So it's not exactly what I had thought it would be but it's This other thing that's really great because I've been able to to to spur these conversations on on various campuses and in some cases, the radio, the station manager and the institutional archivists have never met and never spoken and and now they're thinking of ways that they can write a grant together to. Start Thinking about? You know how they're going to to preserve the radio stations materials. So I in many ways it's even more fruitful and and interesting and exciting than finding. You know forgotton tape of Dr. Martin Luther King Junior. Right. Jocelyn it rings true rings true for me as somebody who visited called radio stations all over the country as well and I think you're absolutely right that often those conversations are happening between radio stations and and college archives it it's sort of a rarity when there is an established archive in special collections or in the library and the university archives. And I asked agree that the day to day work of a radio station can be overwhelming and so the archival projects get pushed aside. I think often often these collections are housed elsewhere too. So alumni often have tapes squirrelled away and so that adds to the complexity for you is that. You know there may be some of this material but it it may be it may not be on campus anywhere right all right that was part that's been part of the conversation everywhere we've gone and it's not just students it's former programmers you know that may have been professionals or you know station managers who thought well, this would be important to keep a take it with me when I go and. You know. I think that is the case almost everywhere and certainly during periods of time when the. To record a show and and keep it, you weren't. It's not like it was going to get. It will wasn't a podcast that could be played multiple times or something like that. So who else was what? You know. What you need Jocelyn. Robinson. Is like cart that you can produce that they could play on all these stations to ask the community of anybody has any cassette tapes in their closets I know we Jennifer. You brought a guest on earlier in two thousand, hundred where. The, the the clue, the missing clue for that detective as far as radio archives goes wasn't found until that guest was able to get onto the radio station and ask a elderly listeners if they remembered anything. I think this was. This was a specific latin-american mystery but we're on the line today with Jocelyn Robinson, project director of the historically black colleges and universities radio station, archival survey project here on Radio Survivor Mine Eric Klein with me as always been. Just so now I want to kind of dig down here because I think you have a unique position if unique experience. To me in my mind and my experience W. Y. S. O. stands out as unique in having an archives project and that's that's Antioch College in Ohio in Ohio Yellow. Springs Ohio. Yes. And Unique Radio Station College public radio station much more. So I think I in its functioning these days but still with a lot of community involvement and it stands out as unique is having a formal archives project I would say that Those don't tend to be in the majority and you've had experience to work there. and I wonder if you have a sense from from both working in higher education working at. An historically black college. And then working there it w why. So if you have a sense for for why a place like any college and to be a wire, so heads this archives project if that illuminated all why then perhaps. These. Other colleges and universities both HP US and. Just in general don't I don't know if you if you have any insights there. Oh, absolutely do and it's not what you think. Well full disclosure I also worked at Antioch College for a time in a higher ed capacity, the an in administration and. Back in. Believe. It was nineteen ninety-one. The radio station moved from the second floor of the Student Union to building on campus. And when it moved, the tape library was pulled off the shelves and thrown into bags and boxes hauled across campus to this other building stuck in a musty storeroom and there it lay for nearly twenty five years That is why Waso has a collection to a large degree. It was almost A. Benign neglect, would you say that? Yes, they. So at the very least, they didn't throw it. Away Right. which, which is often what what happened or that didn't get somewhere where you wouldn't ever find it again if it was California real estate instead of Ohio right. warehoused somewhere where I guess it also wasn't subject to many environmental threats. Well it it it had a bit of threat you know the. It was an older building, musty mildew, e There was a a mold bloom after it had been stabilized, and there were some difficulties with environmental apparatus, but You know for the most part the fact that it was still there in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one. is a testament to a a student run operation that. Had the wherewithal to have a tape library and again also remind listeners of the depth of of that historical record like tapes. Encompassed a lot. Right, they date back to the February of Nineteen fifty-eight. When the the radio station went on the air, we do have a recording of the very first broadcast. And using it really is it really is and and there were I wanna say around three thousand tapes. And that's not the tapes that folks have squirreled away and their in their closets because I'm sure that that many of the shows that were student produced and community produced have been had been recorded and those cassettes most likely they were cassettes by that point you know went home with somebody. and. and there are also a lot of debts that there aren't as many cassettes in this particular collection but there are some and they're floppies. At there are there is a very transitional. Yes. So so so it's very transitional and I think You know only having. nearly three hundred hours of digitized means that there is a quite a. Great deal more material that really hasn't been. Looked at in terms of its use or as a you know resource outside of the of what we we have available to us right now digitally, and that's just at one college. Just at one college. One College, that at at its height may have had two thousand students. So what you're saying that you know through the industry of student leaders and managers at W. Y.. So from the fifties to the the eighties, they managed to amass his collection of tapes there that then through benign neglect. was sort of preserved and kept and then and then rediscovered how many years later when we were these tapes on Earth and folks thought to do something with their at Waso in Yellow Springs Ohio. Well. Again, when when Nina Ellis was hired as the general manager in two thousand nine, she wasn't on the job for but a few weeks when the RFP for the the American. Archive of public broadcasting. came across her desk and that was the catalyst was You know we have these tapes maybe this is a funding source to do something with them at least to get them out of the storeroom and and stabilize them, and that's what happened. So they are now housed in a climate controlled humidity controlled, UV, controlled space, and so they are stable although of course, there's deterioration and the those that were professionally digitized in the course of the project had to be baked had to be you know th, they had to go through the tapes get. In an oven. Controlled in order to make sure that they don't fall apart, which means that they will fall apart. Once they're digital, it's a, it's a one time Riley. It's a very exciting and risky form of preservation. So I mean kind of. What you lay out here Jocelyn is is, is that does it isn't very hopeful in some ways in general for a lot of community and in college radio. Because it seems as though. It sort of reflects my experience in I think what? What Jennifer sort of mentioned as well is that much of the time having an archive having some type of The News Resources and assets stored is more often by accident than by program or sometimes it seems to have been In fits right. There are certain periods represented because as you mentioned, maybe student leadership or station leadership for period. decided it was important put some effort into it but but you know students graduate. Professionals move on their career and cycle through, and they're not always turned into long lasting programs that reflect kind of what you're learning and what you're seeing. Oh absolutely absolutely even in the the HBO that I visited when there's been a particularly charismatic and and forward thinking GM there there might be. Something, not necessarily archival material, but but growth in the station more wattage more equipment a a stronger relationship with the academic program I mean it it. It should trickle down into the the historical record but at I haven't really found that to be the case quite yet but I wouldn't rule it out because again, we're. Even a few steps away from really identifying whether or not a station has archival materials. We. As you're mentioning some of those trajectories I think A lot of stations aren't even aware of just their general history so. Even I found you know I found in my research that that sometimes I'm digging into student newspapers to learn more about a radio stations history that often the students aren't aware of. So I think they're often there are these. An incredible accomplishments that that go unnoted? So yeah, not only the audio. Not, only the audio that you're talking about whether or not that's been preserved, but even just the goings on of station and right it's program guides. All right. You know posters from concerts that the the the the radio station help sponsor or MC or whatever I mean. Yeah. There's. There's a lot of that. That's the voice Sir Jocelyn Robinson Project Director at the historically Black College and university radio station Archival Survey, project we're talking with radio on radio survivor today about preserving the sounds of historically black colleges and universities radio stations. Our guest has informed us that about thirty percent of the existing H. have. Radio stations or have had radio stations. So that's like a about less than three dozen existing possibilities to archive or or to hear these sounds and what's very exciting. About today's topic for me, is that the history of radio in this country and college radio are extremely Interlinked, and in fact, in a Lotta ways called radio is is is really like the. The the foundational moment of of Radio in the country and so to think about college radio on campuses of historically black colleges and universities, and the you know what what has gone on at those stations and how how the every story at every station Is such a unique portrait of those communities It's very exciting I'm glad that Jocelyn Robinson somebody's on the job now it's a, it's A. It's a, it's a unique, but it's very interesting that you had to that you had to write your own job description to get this someone needed to do it Thank you for begging for taking up that That Mantle Jocelyn you mentioned you mentioned learning about the first FCC licensed radio station at an HP see you so I'm curious if. What you're if you're looking at radio stations that don't have licenses as well. So are you? Are. You taking a look at at at schools that might have an online station or that might have have had a carrier current am unlicenced station in the past starting in the nineteen sixties or are you purely focused on stations that have that have FCC LICENSES You know this research is really did the gift that keeps on giving That's. That's a direction to take. I think ultimately I hadn't planned to look at radio stations that no longer have broadcast licenses during this round of of research but I have found that I really needed to do that to get. A better context for for what I was finding. And I think that ultimately the streaming stations low watt stations, you know all of that sort of thing is another another pass through. The the the research but. I yeah. Because a lot of these stations have. They sort of in college radio they've morphed over the years and they may have started out as. Carrier current and then maybe they were able to get an FCC license. and. So yeah, that's Their. College radio stations can be quite nimble and take all these different forms. So I'm not surprised that you're starting to notice that as well. Right but I do WANNA go back to to talking about radio stations that no longer exist and the one that I think is kind of interesting and exciting and I visited on this trip was WDC you which had been at the University of the District of Columbia UDC and interestingly they haven't archives. WDC You was the Premier Jazz station in Washington DC for many many years and there are a lot of old jazz heads in DC and it was well loved and. During the. Mid Nineties UDC fell on hard times There was a subsidy that they were no longer getting that caused a huge deficit. At one point they were unable to start the schools, sue the the the semester on time I believe in the spring semester. And faculty lost their jobs. It was a it was a a really dire situation. And they the they decided to sell the the the license and they had a buyer. It was a Christian broadcaster I believe they were commercial, but they were able to somehow finagle a at the opportunity to purchase an educational license. And it all fell through at the last minute. So the thirteen million dollars that the the university was was hoping to to receive on the sale was about to go up in smoke essentially and C. Span stepped in. And they were, they were the the next time bidder. And they decided to go ahead and pay the the the higher bidders price, and they bought the station. The UDC has a pretty good and and robust archival program and There is a collection jazz archives at at Ud see now and the radio stations materials are part of that. So it's not everything and it certainly isn't something that people are well aware of, but they have many recordings that have been digitized. They have interviews, they have public affairs programming, and they have a lot of of three dimensional materials, awards, and and framed photographs and all sorts of things too. So it's a very complete archive. Of A radio station that no longer exists and even they were thrilled to sit down and talk with me this week because it gave them an opportunity to figure out what to do next with their materials and and what the possibilities might be for research for public programming for producing as I have done with Waso's collection. So it was very heartening because they can also serve as a model for others to here's how you can catalog these materials here your best practices in their in their care and preservation so. So it was all good. So I guess I've questions here in DC, which is a station no longer exists but was at the University of District of Columbia Jazz station, Justin Robinson, do you know was this a student run station 'cause my I know a little bit about it. I have some recollections from growing up on the east coast and troubling lot to that area or was it more professionally run was it or more kind of community volunteers I'm trying to I'm always trying to get at this ineffable difference right between one station has an archive in another doesn't and it seems to me that there was some sense there at ud seed, university district Columbia that they were. Something historical was happening because of its place in the jazz community of that city as well as probably arguably in in the in the national jazz community is my perception. Correct was was there was there more of that sense of history at that station in part because of its focus on on jazz, which is such an important Music Forum in the United States history. Well I I believe it was a student initiated station they talked about you know some of its genesis. One one of the things that I have come away. From this project with as a as an interest in seeing stations, collect oral histories from those folks who are still around who were there when the station was in its early years whether it's still on the air or not and You DC at I think is is looking. To do something like that to kind of make the memory of the station come alive. And I think that because it's in the nation's capital because it's it has this unique role as the only public hbu in in the district that there is this this. Acknowledgement of of their their role and their historical. And I think when that is present. preservation happens. And I think that's Much. What was happening Waso Antioch College has always seen itself as as a place that is. As unique and and important to the the Higher Education Universe and and I an, it's not. It's no wonder to me that people there felt that these materials were important and needed to be kept. and I think that one of the things I do run into at HCC us is even though the institution is a keeper of Culture. and has that that that takes that mantle. So often in in the community and at the at the institution itself. That you know just knowing that that what you is important and worthy of of of preservation and worthy of of passing on two generations you know in the future is. it's it's a mindset and and I don't know that oftentimes when particularly in the African American community when and particularly in the south that You know. Getting that mindset that Y-. That are materials need to be? Preserved and protected and celebrated Sometimes, it's an uphill struggle for that and Justin Robertson. You're the project director of the historically Black College University Radio Station Archival Survey Project and you know, and we've the conversations come to this point in which we're talking a little bit about you know why and how stations particularly college stations have an archive may not have an archive to even go to even look at and you know you mentioned earlier on that that you. Worked in administration, right? You've you've been at radio stations, but you've also worked administration and I think that that's a side. We often leave out because we talk much about what happens at the radio station right in terms of the student management maybe or professional who's makes the radio, the radio whether or not they're saving it but you know the other side of it you've mentioned that in relationships that you're trying to foster at many of these huge is with. A, university. Archive, which often sits in a library. In different places in in the university but you know has ties to the administration and I. Wonder if you have a sense for why an archive or university administration college. Administration. Isn't you know also isn't paying attention to the radio station it is it because it has sort of looked at like a student club and right you know and and maybe is not. Serious. And for lack of better one of the things that's behind Paul's question today is that. We've learned on raise survivor over the years. Is that a lot of time? Especially universities don't see the radio as part of their task. Yeah it's IT'S A it's like a new. It's a new. It's a new item on the list to preserve sound text is more of their historical task. Absolutely. Absolutely I think that that that's the old school way of archives management, but it's increasingly changing and it's but it's been a little slow. You know But I do think that that is something that's changing as the the digital environment becomes that the environment that is most prevalent in terms of the records and information management on a college campus. So there was a time when the that the the archives generally is the place where the institutional records are ingested and. When that happens. There could be reams and reams and reams of paper. But that's becoming less and less. So so that that whole notion that we have to have servers and we have to have computers and we have to have knowledge of Meta data and knowledge of of retrieval and all of those kinds of things that archivist didn't have to bother with before. The those that's be increasingly becoming part of the job and you know and I don't know if it's because of the. Nature of Radio, and if you don't walk into a radio station and see how it works, you may not know. And so and also you know we're in this this culture now where all of us are documentarian 's so we carry around all you know archives of our lives in our phones and that's not how people fought in the past you know. That that preservation piece was something that and particularly in our You know our American Puritan way of of seeing that to preserve your own materials how you know what Hubris. To. To preserve something because you did it you know so I think that they're all kinds of layers to to the preservation puzzle. preservation question and certainly you know being humble and and and having humility and feeling like Oh what I do is not that important. Is is a factor that leads me to the question Jocelyn. Robinson have you uncovered any sort of musical programming that's been archived in any decade at all at these historically black colleges and universities Yes. I have I haven't listened to it because we didn't have the capacity to play it back where I where we were. But at a South Carolina state, there is a Sunday morning radio show that features choirs from black churches in the in the region, and they come in live and and perform. And there's a whole stack of of You know a whole spindle of. CDs. So there's some of them are fairly recent, but they go back years and And there are a few folks who have recorded their own shows here and there have said, yes, I have tapes of of of my of my shows but that's that's something that does exist. Yes. Yeah. I'm thinking about an episode of survivor where we spoke with an individual that was running their own. Like I don't know off the Books Archive, how do we put it? It was RIMAC Michael with his hip hop Radio Archive where there was just There's just these bootleg tapes essentially that fans had made sometimes college radio sometimes community radio especially of hip hop in the late eighties and early nineties, and just you know how it was played that day on the radio by that DJ is really a unique. Archive. Because it's not just the list of songs. It's it's how they're mixed and how they're presented and and what people say about them when they played them on that particular day Joe so you know we we've learned how the college radio in particular played an enormously important role in in the early days of hip hop. And I wonder if you've uncovered any connections to hugh stations in particular these archives. I haven't really and I think that's probably because I have been focusing on at risk materials. So, our conversations have tended to be do you have open reel tapes? Do you have cassettes and not really looking to you know later formats and the music that would have been. You know naturally going along with that but that's not to say that that doesn't exist for sure. A suggestion. I'm curious what you know you've been kind of serving the landscape and visiting stations and obviously learning. That a lot of introductions need to be made between Arcus and radio stations. So what what's next? What's the next phase for you after you can complete the survey? Well, I think my findings are. As, I said not exactly what I was hoping for but I think that it does lay the groundwork for agencies and foundations and. institutions to begin to do some thinking around how can we support these stations and these institutions and get something going. So the good work that's being done today can be preserved as well as the legacy of the work. That's that's taken place in the past. So I I really see it as as more of a of a narrative a story that needs to be told as opposed to here's a list of of materials that I found. It's really much much bigger than that. And do you have From, these visits do you have any immediate advice to college radio stations that have materials lying around? Well. Meaning audio materials so that might have real to reel Zain. Old Yeah old real reels that are in a closet somewhere which should they do? Well, they should take advantage. I. Of the of the expertise that exists on their college campuses and and. Open relationship with their institutional archives. If they don't have time even if they don't have the expertise is the journey they can start on together and that's kind of been the case in in certain situations. And You know the the the first thing is you know make sure that it's cool dry dark and and if you can get the material stable than. You have you buy a little time and and can have some conversations about what to do next and particularly if it's material that is identifiable as to its content if it's significant, a case can be made to to try to ameliorate the situation for that material is as quickly as possible. So. You know, as far as the other parts of it are are concerned they don't have time to to to really undertake. A, you know a large scale You know purge of that storage closet that's that's filled with with boxes of all sorts of things including a bunch cassettes. so You know part of it is, let's all stay in touch. Let's figure out how we might be able to pull together some workshops and do some rudimentary trainings on best practices in audiovisual archival preservation and and see what happens. So and and and everyone's been onboard. Even those who really don't have the time or the resources They know that that it's a it's an important thing and that the fact that they've been alerted to its importance and and realize their their role in this continuing legacy, this continuing broadcast legacy then they start to say you know that what I'm doing today is important too. So we have to make a plan for all of this. Are there. So you know I visited radio stations where people have told me. Things to the effect of you don't WanNa know the sorts of things we've thrown away. So have what sorts of things should people not throw away maybe maybe you can send the battlecry people about the types of things they should be keeping at radio stations. Well I guess. You know any. Material that is that you can't play back. Until you figure out what what the content is. Don't throw it away. and. Don't throw away the playback equipment that you have at this point I was just at Elizabeth City. State University and they have cart players. They have at least two huge reel to reel machines they. They have other equipment that's in the storage area. This offsite storage area that also houses some of their. Media and. You know that the one of the librarians who has an R. Archives background was a part of our our conversation. You know that that material is now not going to be thrown away. Don't throw it away. Even if it doesn't work, someone might be able to use parts from it for a another unit that that actually can be used at a library and the good thing is. That most state archives associations are really good at sharing information. The Society of American, archivists is good at sharing information. There's list serves for all of them. You can. You can find somebody who can and resurrect an old piece of equipment or you at least try to find somebody who can re read an old piece of equipment and there's another institution that may be able to help you out with playback to figure out what you got. So I mean I think part of it is don't feel like you exist in a vacuum. There's a an incredible network of of of institutions and people who can and will. Help if you know, they know that there's a need I think archivists are some of the the most generous generous colleagues I've ever worked with. So you know. Don't don't throw it away until you talked to somebody no matter what it is. Jocelyn Robinson. You're the project director at the Stork Lee Black Colleges and university radio station. Archival Survey Project Thank you so much for joining us today on radio survivor to scratch the surface of preserving the sounds of each. Radio. Thanks it's been my pleasure. Jennifer thanks again for getting a hold of Jason Robinson. For that amazing interview and we covered so much I think about college and community radio. In, general about this, pressing question of preserving the legacy in addition to obviously the topic at hand, which was preserving the legacy at historically black colleges and universities. Yeah I'm really excited about these these partnerships that I think she's starting to form here at at individual stations and universities, and I think it's it's really the first step and a step that can be it can be an example for many other college radio stations, community radio stations just to get these conversations started about preserving your history and preserving your present and I. I. Really like that I appreciate that she understands the challenges not only with preserving the past but also preserving current content. Yeah I mean we're living through very interesting times right now and college radio stations around the country are certainly worth listening to now, and in the future well, we covered a lot of territory on this interview So if you want to kind of. Dig Deeper on the topics and loud advice that was given out. You can go visit our show notes at Rayo. SURVIVOR DOT com slash podcast. It's also of course where you can listen to this episode and all the past two hundred plus episodes of Radio Survivor, which is available every week, and that's where you can learn how to subscribe in Apple podcasts or Stitcher or spotify whatever your favorite way to listen to. PODCASTS are, of course you may also be enjoying us there on a on your local community radio station, and we really appreciate that you tune in and support your local community radio station. If you have any comments about the show, please send them to US PODCAST AT RADIO SURVIVOR DOT COM I'll also note that this is a listener and readers supported enterprise to learn more about that Goto rare survivor dot com slash.

Jocelyn Robinson Mantle Jocelyn director Jennifer FCC Unique Radio Station College Waso Waso HP Black College University Radio Antioch College Ohio Washington HPC US African American Civil Rights HBO Eric Klein president Justin Robinson
Jocelyn K. Glei: R.I.P. Productivity

Hurry Slowly

20:22 min | 2 weeks ago

Jocelyn K. Glei: R.I.P. Productivity

"This episode is brought to you by hover. Every great idea deserves a great domain name. That's why i had right over to hover dot com to see what's available whenever i have a new project. Percolating hover has a dizzying array of extensions to choose from who is privacy is included with every domain and features like hover connect make it super easy to connect your domain to a variety of popular website. Builders with just a few clicks. if you've got an idea you're passionate about start laying the groundwork now by heading over to hover dot com slash. Hurry slowly to get ten percent off your first purchase. That's hov e r dot com slash hurry slowly jocelyn k. Glide and. This is hurry slowly. A podcast about pacing yourself. Where i explore. How you can find more calm comfort and clarity through the simple act of slowing down. It's been a little over three years. Since i started this podcast during which time i've gone through some fairly substantive personal transformation. The podcast itself has made some major changes in terms of both frequency and subject matter and now the entire world around us has changed suddenly irrevocably and in ways that we do not yet fully understand. We're living in a highly uncomfortable. State of limbo. Were the old ways of doing things. And the old social norms have been eradicated completely upended. But what will replace them is still under clear. We're inhabiting a space where there are no norms which feels simultaneously scary and can bring yourself a round to it filled with possibility so i thought it might be a good time for review. What have i learned over. The course of this podcast. And what does it have to do with figuring out a way forward to get there. I'm going to have to start by rewinding and tell you a little bit about how i got to the start of this podcast back in two thousand seventeen over ten years ago in two thousand nine my work started to focus on productivity and creativity i began working at a startup with the mission of helping creatives make their ideas happen at the same time i had been writing or let's be totally accurate trying to write screenplays on the side is inhabited various jobs related to editorial design and publishing so it was always writing and editing. But i wasn't having a lot of success. Doing the type of writing i was yearning to do namely making a writing movies so i thought well studying how other great if people make their ideas happen might help me learn how to do the same with my own ideas. I the language of productivity writing was foreign to me. I had to learn new vocabulary that was meant to inspire and motivate made even subtly coerced the reader using words like supercharge and optimize in comfort zone. I had to learn how to start headlines with two or why you should add to learn how to break articles down into tip sheets and rick constantly in the imperative voice getting rid of the niceties of standard grammatical sentence structure and starting every tip with a forceful verb. I'm quite sure. I don't need to go on you. Yourself are fluent in the language of productivity writing. We all are because it's everywhere. Even if not seeking out productivity adviser self help tips this type of how to language now permeates our culture to give a small example. When i was visiting my close friend a few years ago her small daughter. Knowing that i had been a gymnast when i was her age asked. If i had any tips on doing cartwheels. I think she was about four years old at the time. My friend is strictly commented on how remarkable it was that she would use the word tips. A word children of our generation would never thought to use. When i was her age almost forty years ago now advice culture was not a thing and productivity was not something that regular everyday humans talked about now at least inside the container of our working lives and for many of us in our personal lives as well. It's always think about. Am i being productive. How much did i get done today. Did i get enough done. What's on my to do list for tomorrow. Oh my god. I'm so behind why procrastinating. And what about that creative project set aside the thing that makes me really feel like i'm fulfilling my potential. When am i going to get to that. And so again need to elaborate more on this inner dialogue. I'm sure you're already well acquainted with it. We are so deep into the language of productivity in the mindset of productivity that we no longer know how to think of ourselves outside of it. Tobacco this point. I can tell you that no episode of my podcast has elicited more personal emails than the one entitled. Who are you without the doing in which i ask listeners to contemplate that question who am i when i'm not doing anything who am i what i'm not being productive and for many people contemplating. This question is deeply deeply uncomfortable. I should note that this is not my question. It was gift to me from a healer whose work has changed my life and who i interview in the second episode of season. Three of the podcast in an episode entitled. It doesn't matter what you do. It's who's doing it. And i think this question strikes such a chord because we have all been taught to measure our lives by how busy we are by how much we've accomplished in a given day. And when we remove that means of measuring when we get rid of the yardstick of productivity we hardly know who we are anymore. Who are you without the doing better yet. Who are we without the doing. And this is the most remarkable thing about the pandemic that it allowed us to finally see the answer. When the world came to a halt in the spring of twenty twenty we were all forced to confront who we were without the doing who we were as individuals stripped of our business and our ambitions and who we were as a country when the music stopped playing and everyone frozen place when we as a society were called upon to stop what we were doing and support and care for each other. Could we do it and who would fall through. The cracks without the distractions of doing we could suddenly see the cracks. The cracks in the fragile facade of our achievement oriented identities are overstuffed. Schedules are frantic. Consumerism stripped of the motive to produce in the entertainment of consuming. What was left for many of us. What was left was the quiet despair of being with ourselves of confronting ourselves in a way that we hadn't done in a long time maybe ever and realizing as we looked in the mirror that we were tired so very tired. Tired of living in a world filled with injustice tired of living in a world that tells us happiness is consumerism. Tired of living in a world that asks us to regard ourselves as commodities tired of living in a world that drives us to strive and better ourselves until we're burning out as the slovenian philosopher were not a celestial who i interviewed on season to this podcast says the sad and game of living in a capitalistic society is that finally when the cycle of consumerism reaches. Its true pinnacle what happens. Is we begin to consume ourselves and when the engine of capitalism ground to a halt this past spring it was like a veil was lifted. We could see who we were what we become the game. We've been lulled into playing. And now he can't unsee it and it's painful because once you awaken once the veil is lifted. There's no going back. You can't go back into unconsciousness. I've been thinking about this a lot. Lately as i observed changes in myself and see myself going through the cycle again and again the cycle of waking the pain of seeing and eventually beginning the messy work of change talked before on this podcast about how we yearn for transformation. And how the current cultural conversation casts transformation is incredibly positive desirable thing. What's more it makes it sound easy. In fact transformation is slow and messy and difficult and almost always quite painful. That's not to say it's not desirable positive in the end. It is but it's not easy and when you awaken to a new level of self awareness. The first phase is incredibly uncomfortable. Because you can see what you couldn't see before and what that usually looks like is paying witness to some sort of shitty behavior that you were previously doing unconsciously that has now come into consciousness and at first all you can do is watch. Watch yourself doing the shitty or self destructive or hurtful behavior like there. I go again doing the terrible thing for me. At least the stage usually involves a lot of shame. I'll give you a small personal example. A few months ago this was really coming up for me with my partner as i came into consciousness about some of the crappy behaviors that i tend to play out in my romantic relationships. I think i thought. Because i was so in love with this woman because i had finally found my person. I might be able to circumvent or avoid all of those negative patterns that had come up in past relationships. Well as you might expect no dice on that one. I'm still me and so all of those old behaviors are coming up for review. And i get to see them and i really don't like it because it's extremely uncomfortable. And thus the work of the next step begins unwinding. The old patterns of reaction and behavior and rewiring in new reactions and behaviors. And this is of course the hard part. This is the work. This is the practice and it's hard so of course it's appealing to consider returning to your previous place of unconsciousness. And if you really want to you can usually involves the alcohol or drugs or some other addiction in order to subvert. The new found awareness. I can remember talking to another woman a few years ago. Who like me had quit drinking. And she said you just start noticing and then she went on to list all of the things. She started noticing. But i thought you can stop air. That's the whole sentence. You start noticing noticing all the things you were striving not to notice by engaging with that addiction and it's painful productivity to is an addiction. One that helps us avoid noticing a whole range of things. It could be personal issues like the challenges. We'd rather not address in a romantic or family relationship or could just be the appeal of remaining in a headlong screen bound state so that we can disassociate from our bodies and avoid connecting to the trauma and pain that stored in them or it could be simply using productivity to distract ourselves or lower selves into acceptance that we are too busy to address cultural problems that feel large and unwieldy or the make us uncomfortable because of our own role in perpetuating those patterns and when the world stopped in march many of us want into a little bit of withdrawal from this productivity addiction we felt the latent anxiety of not being busy and if a rising awareness of what we were covering over when we were too busy to see it some of us also finally came back into our bodies in a way maybe not right at the beginning of the pandemic but as we got deeper in and as we came back we realized that we had a deep deep need for rest that the way we were working was not is not sustainable. Somehow when you're go- going all the time it seems doable but the minute you stop. The exhaustion washes over you. I used to produce a big conference in new york and inevitably be running on two or three hours of sleep the night before. By the time the event started then i would basically have to remain in motion or at least standing the entire first day of the event. And if i did. I was fine. I keep going but the minute i sat down and let my body relax. I was a goner. The exhaustion would wash over me. And pull me under like tied. And i think that's an apt metaphor the pandemic meet us all. Sit down and be still and suddenly we could feel that tide of exhaustion rolling. It we sense how tired we really were. How touch with our bodies. We really were. How out of touch we had to be in order to not noticed the exhaustion. But now there's attention. We now intuitively deep down. The things will never be the same again. The begin never go back to normal libby. Can't unsee the things we've seen but at the same time we also see how tired we are. How broken our previous way of working and living was how broken it made us. We can feel the burn out in our bones. So how do we proceed. We know we need to rest and recuperate. We know the old ways of working or not working anymore. We know that we can't go back to the way that things were but how do we acknowledge the exhaustion and adopt new ways of engaging with our work so that we can begin to plant the seeds for this new world. We wanna live in. I don't know the answer to this question. But i know that there isn't just one answer. There are million a billion ways to plant the seeds for new ways of working new ways of building new ways of being in community and each one is as individual and personal and particular and unique as you are in my opinion. The brief is clear. It's time for each of us. Reconnect with our core essence. That thing that is at the heart of who you are without the doing that life for that spark that has always been deep within you. Maybe it's your superpower or maybe it's your best kept secret. The brief is to reconnect with that light that essence and make it the centerpiece as you begin to slowly move forward after this cosmic reset. How can you use that essence to plant the seeds for a new world. The world do you want to see where you bring your unique gifts to the community and offer them up. What are those gifts. And how can they help us. Build something new something different something. More generous and tender. The turn of the year is the perfect time to meditate on this question take stock post twenty twenty of what you are now capable of of what new strength you've developed of what you have to offer that. Maybe you weren't aware of before of what the world needs the you now see after this episode i will be taking a break from this podcast for a few months. Diminish on these questions for myself. I've made many personal discoveries this past year. And i'm looking forward to experimenting with how i engage with you and the community that this podcast is generated in new ways. I have many seedlings sprouting. But i'm not quite ready to talk about them yet. I am also not one hundred percent. Sure if this podcast will return for a fourth season. I need to take a break for a little while to see what feels right but i do know that if it does return it will be with a fresh new focus. I'm officially done. Ruminating on productivity as alan watts said when you get the message hang up the phone. This is the message. I got for my ten year. Sojourn into the world of productivity. What we need is not to learn how to be more productive but to learn how to heal ourselves from our toxic obsession with productivity. You don't need any more productivity advice from me or anyone else you don't need to buy anything or read anything or listen to anything or do anything to make yourself quote unquote better. Your best self is a mirage that capitalism created to make you feel inadequate so that you buy more stuff. Forget about it. Hang up the phone. let's work with this self. The one that's right here right now. It's all you've got and it's pretty good. Let's go of all that striving and plant the seeds for something new. What were you nourish and grow in the coming year. And how will you share your essence. How why. I'm looking forward to finding out and when i do i'll keep you posted wishing you a generative new year.

jocelyn k rick libby new york alan watts
Pandemic, Michigan, elections.  Bill Rustem, Jocelyn Benson, Paula Gardner are guests.

Michigan Policast

1:02:10 hr | 4 months ago

Pandemic, Michigan, elections. Bill Rustem, Jocelyn Benson, Paula Gardner are guests.

"The presenting underwriter of the Michigan polycast is progress, Michigan providing a strong credible voice that holds public officials in government accountable and assists of the promotion of progressive ideas. Would you rather listen hooked up? Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up Donny. I'm Joe Biden and I approve this message. Well, that's the summary of the debate as imagined by Stephen Colbert and his Mad Men at CVS. It was the start of a week that when it ended seemed like an extended version of Saturday Night Live which thankfully returned at the end of the week with their version of the debate which a Christine made more sense than the real thing. But the debate seems like a distant memory as the campaign is rocked by what almost seemed inevitable The Mask skating Donald Trump infected with the potentially fatal virus and on the same day. The president was helicoptered to Walter Reed Medical Center, Michigan Supreme Court, effectively took away Governor witmer's power to continue to protect us from the virus. Those are the Michigan polycash where we always practice social just sing and wear our masks were all about Michigan policy and politics and the national occurrence impacting our Pleasant peninsulas thoughts org, Christine Barry, Joe Biden's campaign moves on focusing on Virtual voter contact in place of large crowds. He was in Grand Rapids at the end of the week the 2nd Biden wage campaign here in the space of four days. Also on the Pod this week. We'll talk with Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson about preparations for a record-setting voter turnout birth magazine business, editor, Paula Gardner joins us with a report on the plight of Michigan restaurants as the cold weather makes outdoor dining more difficult a bipartisan group of Michigan announced Sportsman and sports women for Biden. We'll talk with one of the organizers and attorney-general Dana nessel charges to right-wing political hacks with voter suppression. Which targeted dog. African Americans in Detroit Walt it feels like this just goes on and on. I think we're going to be here for an hour and half two hours three hours something like that. But let's begin with the twin Cove. It stories Trump's office and witmer's legal defeat and they're both big big stories Christine. Of course. We hope the president first lady and all the Trump Republicans who are infected last week recover fully and boy, there's a bunch of those gets longer every day. We can lead the medical story to the National media that gets updated. Regularly. Let's talk politics a little bit. First of all the impact of Donald Trump being stuck off the campaign Trail which he loves so dearly and what is now the last 30 days to the election. Is this the end of the Trump campaign and does that mean the end of the Trump presidency? Well, I don't think so. And I first of all want to just you know, Echo your comments about we want hoping for everyone to recover quickly. I don't think that this even keeps him off the campaign Trail off. He's really much worse off than we know I think that he'll campaign virtually if he can I think his kids are out there. Mike Pence has already started increasing his profile page and he's out there kind of campaigning for President Trump. So I don't think it's the end of the campaign but we have seen a little bit of a shift. This is actually was in Seminole a table all that. We saw a little bit of a shift moved toward Biden after the announcement on President Trump testing positive. I'm going to argue with you a little bit. First of all, the the Trump children are a quarantine self quarantine right now. I saw a tweet from Don Jr. Yes. I followed on Junior on Twitter. You can punish me for that later, but he is back in quarantine against the second time for him cuz I bought a girlfriend was already infected. So he is back there along with his his brother and the princess of Anka so they're they're out of there in terms of Mike Pence being out. He's not going to turn on a crowd like Donald Trump Donald Trump. I will give him one thing. He is a great performer. The guy has a future as a stand-up comic if he wants to get out of what he's doing much better as a stand-up comic for me as a president and he can turn a crowd on and he can really get an audience going. Mike Pence can't do that. But the only thing is their campaign really has to switch on a dime right now from the beginning has been running a virtual campaign. He has been derided by the Republicans as campaigning out of his basement, but from a practical standpoint, it has been much more effective at cost less money and it's a lot safer than a 77 year old man is concerned about a virus that finally caught up with the guy who's responsible for the virus being able to catch him. I was interesting with the SNL cold open on Saturday night and people haven't seen that way. They really need to stream it cuz it's just an amazing rehash of the debate, but they ended the segment talking about Karma and that's exactly what the strumpet affection as it's karma. He has been saved. The beginning this is no big deal. It's not dangerous. It doesn't hurt anybody and he comes back to literally bite him in the butt. So I think that the Biden campaign is better position. Plus I got more money. That's another thing. I didn't campaign. No doubt is better position if they had to switch to all of our tool they could do that because as you said they had been doing that I think though that going back to the Trump children, they're off in a good position to ramp up their virtual game as well. So they can easily still campaign for him and reach a millions of people. Yeah, especially done Junior. He's he's not at his father's ability to stir up a crowd and he's very good that man and he's a mess just like his dad to he looks like he's always on Coker disheveled or something. I just that he's a mess off meanwhile in Michigan. We've got a straight party-line vote in the Supreme Court 4 to 3, which basically takes away from Governor Whitmer her unilateral power to continuous state of emergency and really make sure that among But weakest of Governors in the nation now at responding to the virus. She has been effective in keeping Michigan relatively safe compared to a lot of other states, but at the same time the numbers in Michigan were getting bad again. We are now back up to over a thousand infections a day hospitalizations are going back up again. She had to lower the boom a little bit in the the potential over things were getting bad. Again. They went from a stage five to a stage four. I believe it is and basically that imposes more restrictions on the size of crowds and restaurants and things like that off of the states now averaging nine New Delhi cases for every hundred thousand people a day and that is just way too many. There's a lot of good stats available will have a link to bridge which had that but new cases since October 3rd 1158 on a daily basis a week ago was 901 back in June. We were as low as a one-day total loss. Love Fourteen and then what happened in June everybody started? Well, you mentioned earlier start the campus is opened up and you wanted to go out and party with a moral day and it takes a little while for the incubation and then you get the 4th of July and you get the summer season, but now you've got the kids going back to school. You've got people more and more indoors as the weather gets colder more than anything else. I think people are just getting tired and or complacent. Yeah, I think it's just the covin fatigue, you know, people just sick of it now. I'm not and you're not because we're taking it seriously and it has an interrupted Our Lives as much as it has some others, but you know, if your whole life changed if your hold day-to-day life changed when the Box started which was end of March is that when we were when we started quarantine March 12th, I actually saved the the first press release from the so if you log, Had been completely disrupted for three or four months. Of course, you want to get out? Of course you want to go do something. So I understand that but this is it showing now all of the super spreader events. And every time you see a package together without masks without social distancing you think see they're doing it so I can do it. So it just kind of snowballed that's that is my perception of how that happened. And now we're seeing the Upper Peninsula off as a hotspot for no Seven Counties, I think are like orange and red now, so it's exactly what she warned about exactly what she wanted us about do not go up north. Do not do these things. And here we are. Yeah now and Iron County in the upper peninsula, the cash rate has jumped to 108 per day per one hundred thousand people. I just felt that the page release on the very first positive case of covid-19 in Michigan. It was March 10th. It seems like a hundred years ago. But in reality, it was only seven months ago seven months we've been going through Yeah, and and it ain't going away anywhere in the near future. Well, especially not now and now that sure can't chat feel they're going to get their creepy little fingers into it. Yeah, and they've made it very clear about especially the subcommittee litter Mike Shirkey. He does not support and is totally opposed and will fight any mandatory Statewide mask requirement which means a third of the state is not going to wear masks page is a formula for resuming the pandemic in Michigan every public health expert on the face of the planet. They all say the same thing masks are the number one thing we can be doing them more effective than a vaccine cause of action's going to be fifty 75% effective. If everybody masked up we'd be looking at ninety ninety-five percent Effectiveness turkey has said that he was looking forward to working with a governor and I just think that's ridiculous. I think this is going to be up to the local Health departments now to really get strict. I don't know what Authority that suck. Is all if the 1945 laws. Do you know how that works? Well, what Authority is that under there still working on it, but there are some Public Health rules that could be put into place when it comes to public accommodations and requirements for businesses where it becomes dicier is limiting capacities for outdoor events and things like that. A lot of it's going to have to be voluntary and you're going to find that it is voluntary. You already have will be talking a little bit later. What about restaurants and how people aren't going in even though they could go in because they're concerned Why won't go inside a restaurant and it's not totally rational. I've talked with our faith to record and she says that in fact it is pretty safe to go to restaurants around here. As long as you stay away from East Lancing, but still I will do it just because of suck caution. The other thing to this point out is the importance of the Supreme Court race on the ballot, which is very difficult for people because the judges officially run is non-partisan. They're not identified by party. Yep. They do absolutely run on behalf of a political party and it was for people who put on the court by Republicans voting to take away the governor's emergency powers. And the three people that were put on there by the Democratic party that upheld her right to continue the state of emergency. We will put a link on the website to the actual ruling by the Supreme Court and the order by the Supreme Court read the Page by Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack. It makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately. It didn't make sense to the Republicans of the court but vote for the Supreme Court and if you think they did wrong Elizabeth Welch is the other candidates supported by the Democratic party who is on the ballot along with Chief Justice Mary McCormack. Yeah. Let me just be a little bit more clear about this age. You can vote right now if you've got your ballot go and just fill it in right now Welch McCormick and then either drop it in the mail or a belt box. Just do it and dog. Press up and down the ballot and you don't if you're voting a straight ticket, you still have to vote for the judges because they don't count on a straight ticket. Yep. That was a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. That was the worst debate. I have ever seen. In fact. It wasn't even a debate wage. It was a disgrace that CNN's Jake Tapper and his colleague the normally very staid Dana Bash was even more to the point that was a shitshow and you know, we're on cable we can say that apologies for being maybe a little bit crude, but that is really the the phrase that I'm getting, you know from people on both sides of the aisle on text. It's the only phrase that I can think of to really describe it. Yep. That pretty well sums up that whole mess on Tuesday evening, and it's probably going to be the last day we have is a result of the president's illness some pork. I had Slade actually counted up every Interruption by Donald Trump and according to his count. He interrupted either Joe Biden or Chris Wallace 128 X Factor. D 5 minutes and Joe Biden interrupted a few a few dozen times himself at various points either trying to get a word in edgewise or correct flat-out Lies by the president but his interruptions just absolutely no match for Donald Trump obviously was this tactic. I think it backfired on him the good news of the Biden campaign. The debate probably had no impact on the presidential race track lease. That's the view of political analyst Larry Sabato. The University of Virginia political scientist is considered amongst the best political handicappers in the country use the featured speaker at a virtual fundraiser wage could sit universities Michigan political leadership program. I don't think the debate as such costs either candidate many votes. It's simply reinforced the leanings people already had which is normally what debates do problem is. If you're behind seven or eight points the way Trump is you want to make up ground right? You want to make up some ground. He didn't make up any ground dead. If anything he reinforced Biden's lead, okay, Christine the debate is now officially ancient history, which is seems to be the story of twenty-twenty the new cycle changes so fast on a story now, of course is the health of Donald Trump. Let's start say once again that we say without equivocation we both wish a quick and Total Recovery for the president his wife. Hope Hicks Ronna Romney McDaniel, the three members and County of the United States Senate and on and on and on and on all of whom have caught this horrific virus, but the fact remains the disdain Donald Trump is shown for covid-19 preventive measures, especially Mass wage provides a classic example of chickens coming home to roost. What do you make of the debate is that now something that's just totally irrelevant. And for that matters is the are the revelations from the week before you remember down Trump's tax story. You remember that one the little thing where it says basically has been cheating on his taxes for twenty years and pays no taxes seems like even more ancient history. The tax things should be more important than what it is. But with this President all of us knew exactly what he was. I don't know if you ever if you thought he was paying any taxes know. I mean, I certainly didn't they said he paid 750 that's more than I thought he was paying so that does not it does not surprise me at all. I just really thought that he was wrong wasn't paying anything and then you have a supporter saying well, he donates a salary back or he doesn't take a salary whatever. Yeah pennies-on-the-dollar for what he's learning as president, you know, the Trump campaign is from the beginning been trying to change the subject from covid-19 because they know from their own polling they know from just reading the papers that that is Trump's weakness electorally and it's killing him in the polls. So they wanted to change the subject. Him getting sick and that being in the news day after day after day after day guarantees that covid-19 is the issue as people are voting. Now again, people start thinking well the elections Thursday November 3rd, we'll see what happens between now and then but more than three million people have already voted and they're voting on a daily basis because Donald Trump's scared them into voting early. He has completely screwed himself. He has let's go back to the debate for a minute. You know, we we mentioned that sebadoh said it. He didn't really think the debate mattered and I think that's probably true if it had like a regular debate, but it was a performance that a lot of people according to a New York Times in Siena College poll. I think it is 65 or 68 percentage felt that Trump just totally really I don't know if it's reinforced and negative you but they had a negative view of him because of it and and I think it was because he went into the bait dog. Acting like he would act if he was talking to quote unquote fake news and not respecting it for what it was which was where people who aren't normally engaged might tune in to watch him. Now. I don't think the debate and him getting sick can be entirely separated because the venue required masks he refused to wear it his family refused to wear masks. Here's supposed to take a test. He arrived late so that he didn't take the test. He mocked Biden for wearing a mask at the debate and we don't even know when he was when he tested positive. There's there's some you know, there's a lack of clarity about that. I don't see how you can separate how he acted in the debate his performance in the debate from the way that he is as a person with, you know, coming in late not testing not wearing a mask his family not wearing a mask just not respecting the virus and then Bang 3 or 4 days later now. Tested positive or he tested positive before he announced it. But when he announced it, it was what Friday? Yeah, thursday-friday Thursday. Oh, I don't know. Maybe it was maybe it was two years ago, who knows how long it was like like 1 a.m. Friday? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean you just take that whole picture and you've got just a really negative bad performance all at all by Drake. Trump. Yeah. The other thing I think the really helped Joe Biden was done by the debate commission unknowingly and that was choosing Chris Wallace as the moderator because it gives the debate less of an aura of odd be rigged against Donald Trump at the fake media. Imagine if it was Kristen Welker, who's going to be a moderator? I think it was supposed to be the moderator of the third debate from NBC News Trump could scream NBC hates me blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, but when he screams that Fox News is rigged against me that just doesn't register with a lot of people now just so happens. Chris Wallace is a real journalist who happens to be working for Fox News and is dead. Credible journalists, but the fact that it is Fox News takes away a lot of that argument from Trump that it was two against one as much as he likes to say. He was debating Chris Wallace as well. Although he was debating Chris Wells. Well, I was trying to enforce the rules a couple of other outcomes that I think are important. The first hour of the debate by Dre is 3.8 million in which is a fundraising record for a single hour according David pakman. I'll have a link over 3 hours to raise ten million and a hundred thousand people signed up to volunteer for Biden. I don't know trumps numbers. I think that that is they weren't announced that they weren't as a good. Well that was quite good. Another thing that I think came out of it is Biden shattered that whole sleepy Joe caricature that that Trump tried to create a new age, you know, ultimately this might swing a few thousand votes here and there I don't really know I don't have that Crystal Ball but in some states, that's all you need. Is that few thousand volts? Yep. It was also interesting that the Lincoln project within an hour of the debate was marketing a sweatshirt that had aviator sunglasses on it with the caption. Will you shut up man? What you mentioned home from the beginning the Biden campaign has taken on a totally different approach to campaigning showing full respect for covid-19. Safety precautions. It was on display in Grand Rapids on Friday when the former vice president met with a handful of supporters at a United Food and Commercial Workers Union Hall. That's the union that represents the bulk of employees at Michigan's two major food retailers Meyer and burger while touching on campaign themes of dealing with the virus and building the economy by made an unabashed pitch to working-class Americans continuing the contrast between his roots in a Park Avenue lifestyle of Donald Trump. I'm asked many times in recent years. How do we get to the place where people who stock our shelves pack our food teach our kids like wage Our family take care of my wife take care of our sick who race into burning buildings and pick up the garbage off our streets. Who did how do we get to the place where y'all don't think we should see you anymore or hear them most importantly respect them that has to change. I know it. Can I come from those neighborhoods? It was the second biting a pain event in 4 days in our state doctor, Joe Biden had a couple of events in the Traverse City area. She was hosted by Pete buttigieg husband chest and he's a native of the Traverse City area. She talked about an issue of critical importance to Northern Michigan, especially the areas Cherry industry and tourism that's climate change many small businesses and farms and farmers are having Problems because of climate change and it's unbelievable that we have a president who just won't admit that climate change even exists, you know, the exact dates. We've gone now probably 25 minutes into the Pod and we haven't said anything about the fact that the western part of our country is burning down because of climate change. There's too much it's it's off roaming, you know, but as she was saying that that you know president won't admit that it exists. I I had a mental image of like a big Glacier just breaking off and landing on Donald Trump yard at least 20 Mara Lago. But yeah, you think about it in a normal year. Not that I'm sure would a normal years anymore. The biggest story of the year would be the wildfires in California, Oregon and Washington, but that's like it's an afterthought even though now I think the death toll up there's up to 35. The losses are in the God knows how many billions of dead. Hours and millions of Acres. It's a frightening Story. The planet is literally burning up and here we are talking about Donald Trump being in the hospital, you know, it's because election day is so close. I think that there is a lot of anxiety going into this election anyway, and now here he is in the hospital about to screw this up for us because we wanted to beat him so badly, how could anyone not stranded? How can anyone be undecided right now undecided they're not undecided they just don't want to make a decision against someone who you know, look at Travis and Nicole Arizona these guys were you know, one of those post-debate questions, they're like, you know, he said that about the proud boys, but I don't really think he's a racist. I just can't tell and they remind me of those people who are never going to make a decision until the last minute they vote for Trump because it's a secret they're not undecided. They just don't want to admit that their garbage people who like pigs. garbage candidate . You just have to dismiss them. I I just know you're not undecided you just want attention by saying I'm undecided. Okay, let's talk about the election and where people do you have to make a decision that wage. Well election day is now just four weeks away early voting has been underway in Michigan for a week with more than two point five million absentee ballots already issued. It will be a record vote by email a major challenge for City and Township Clerk's across the state responsibility for answering that challenge ultimately falls on Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson who joins us for an update on a reparations for an election unlike any other secretary bentsen, you've had a tremendous challenge in the Risen to that challenge with an unusual election starting with the absentee ballots. Totally unprecedented. Are you and the local clerks ready for the volume that you already sing? Yes, I'm I'm really proud that so many citizens have stepped up to embrace their right to vote by mail this year and more importantly that so many of our clerks all across the state have risen to the challenge meet this extraordinary demand was just reviewing the numbers and compared to 2016, you know ballot requests or of 350% Statewide and clerks have already delivered a hundred percent more balanced than they had done in processed in in 2016. So, you know to me one of the the really untold stories this year is how are fifteen hundred and twenty clerks all across the state have stepped up under extraordinary circumstances met every Challenge from their way and our democracy is better for it something that surprised me when my ballot arrived in the mail. I also got an email from a local clerk with a tracking on it for my ballot. I could see it from the time. He dropped it at the post office and I can follow it right through to the point where they get it back to counted. Well, yeah that tracking system is important phone number. States all across the country this year have implemented it. We have partnered with an organization called ballot Scout and you can go to michigan.gov enter your information and track your ballot and see your request to have it sent to you has been received whether your valid itself has been sent to you. And once you return it, it'll Mark when it's received so that can give you the peace of mind that your valid has been received on time and will be counted and my own novel up Ford had a business reply stamp on it. So I didn't even have to pay for the postage. Although I used to drop box myself against something new that you have initiated. Yes. In fact to me the silver lining of 2920 is that citizens have options they have options on how to register to vote how to get their ballot and how to return their ballot and really my focus has just been on making sure those options are available to Citizens universally and non-citizens know as clearly as possible what they are so that they can choose the best one for themselves. You've made it very clear that we're not going to know the final numbers on Election night, or we're not going to know on Wednesday. Probably Thursday. Either you've got two of your predecessors now along with the president basically questioning how long we should be counting votes. What what's your response to them? Certainly anyone who had once held this office might know that it takes a little bit more than 12 hours to count three million absentee ballots, which is the number that we're seeing this year. But you know in reflection upon the birth marks that that they and others have made I've realized that this truly is a new time for democracy and a new day for democracy in Michigan is I said in my inauguration speech it's a time where voters have more options than ever before voters options that did not exist in Prior administrations. And so I understand if they're not aware of what these new challenges mean for us and the Ark works at the local level, but the bottom line is where I work for the voters and I'm working to bring the best ideas and bipartisan solutions to Michigan to ensure that citizens can get their ballots on time have they have the clarity of how to return them and the phone number? She wants their ballot is counted that their vote will be counted and their voice heard. I think the president made it pretty clear that you're going to be in court after the election with challenges to whatever it is that you come up with. You wouldn't say I can say you're one of the nation's leading experts on election-law. You've got the access to Dana nessel and the entire department of law under the Attorney General. Are you confident that you can make Michigan number stand-up? I'm confident that I can ensure every vote will count and every voice will be heard and that's really my job. We know this isn't a year. We're particularly in States like ours there will be extraordinary pressure achoo to buy into myths of misinformation that are designed to sow seeds of Doubt among our voters about the Integrity of their vote. We know a lot of people will be voting by mail for the first time and that creates a lot of changes both in how citizens vote and how results are tabulated and reported but I've been very transparent and upfront with all of our citizens about what those changes mean. And again, we're not the Omni. State experiencing this right now and so citizens can see that we are in track and on track with what has happening in Iowa and Minnesota in Arizona and Pennsylvania and so many other states and so it's it's real a mark of this historic moment that we're in that there is so much attention on our state and you know, people are being very litigious and making sure that every I is dotted and every T is crossed off but I'm confident that you know importantly you mentioned things that I'm doing. All I'm doing is just activating the will of the voters and I'm confident that when they voted overwhelmingly to create a right to vote by mail in our state in 2015 and gave my office the responsibility to to make that right or reality that we've done everything that we can and the best practices would indicate are needed to make that right come to fruition for all of our citizens regardless of who they vote for and now it's up to the voters to make sure they take advantage of those options and exercise them to have their voices heard and their votes counted this fall even if you and your elections dead. And are dealing with the most challenging election probably in the history of the state. You got a couple other little minor issues going on to you've got to petition drives about the dump a total of nearly 1 million signatures on them have to be verified. One of them will probably end up in court the other one not very controversial in terms of opposition. What's the timeline for the signatures you receive from unlocked Michigan Thursday well as from fair and equal, Michigan Oh, we were referred citizens to the Bureau of Elections for all delivering of petitions and initiatives and we treat everyone the same. Yeah, and no matter what the subject matter of the petition or the purpose behind life or the number of signatures or anything like that. All of that goes through the Professionals of the Bureau of Elections. Another also is an attorney general investigation into one of those petitions, which we are mindful of and you know, there's always the possibility the Attorney General may find or instruct us to do something but beyond that we're treating this petition and all petitions like any other it takes on average just over a hundred days for our Bureau of Elections professionals to review and signatures and they actually just do a sampling they don't do the whole lot which we take much longer. So we've been very up-front about that. We realize that this is a hyper political time and and and everyone is is very anxious thoughts about a number of things but I think that's when we have to ensure we stay the course and do you know what we would have always done and also recognize that these petition signatures for both petitions are coming into our birth. A few dozen professionals that the Bureau of Elections at the same time. They're managing this really momentous presidential election with mortar now than ever before in our state. So they've got their hands full but I fully trust in them and expect they will they will work through these signatures as they do it in any other petition and they'll you know deliver the results of the State Board of canvassers and any recommendations from that when they when they are most able to do it and just to fill up their spare time, you're basically inventing the redistricting commission that was created in Broad Strokes by the Constitutional Amendment, but it's never been done before no precedent. So every day is a new day for that commission truly and you know, I'm so glad you brought that up cuz I'm so proud of how our office has really met the the goals that citizens again gauge. These are all just you know jobs that the citizens elected me to do in amending our state constitution to create an independent citizens redistricting commission and in doing so we're you know, it's so gross. Trying to see close to 10,000 citizens applied from all across the state every single County and now the Thirteen Commissioners that were selected each and every one of them is truly committed to the mission and goals of those millions of Voters who amended their state constitution to create this Commission of making sure that the districts are drawn in a way that's independent that is transparent and that the entire process home has Inlet. Yeah, as one of those who started that petition drive a long time ago. I've been talking with with some of my friends from their people like Katie Faye and Nancy. Whang and the thing that we appreciate is the great job. Your department has done in implementing the amendment. Oh, it's been an honor. I mean and it's also just you know, my my background is I'm an educator. I'm an academic. I'm a law professor Arthur dean of Alaska like that's where I'm coming from here. I don't know. I've not held political office before I'm just focused on what are Best Practices. What are the data? And and how do we make the best decisions possible for anything? Particular thing that comes my way and having had background in citizens redistricting work and knowing what happened in California. I I knew both, you know who to talk to and and how to operate them in a way that would meet the at least, you know mimicked the best practices that have already been in place in other states and they'll tell you it's been it's been quite an interesting few years in Lansing kind of approaching my job as a policymaker and as they you know administrator as opposed to a political actor and and I think that's also why you're seeing you know us try to do our jobs right now in the midst of this extraordinary political Maelstrom that were in the middle of you've also made a conscious decision, you are not a part of the partisan campaigning that is going on right now unlike the governor lieutenant governor and attorney general you are the elections officer and that's the way you're playing it. Yeah. It's my job. I mean, you know, I I certainly ran as a Democrat and I'm a Democrat because with the party of the Voting Rights Act the party that song And the past this extraordinary Federal legislation that ensured one-person-one-vote and equal protection applied to every voter but you know beyond that my job is to make sure every voter can vote in every voter has stayed the same process regardless of who they vote for and so my goal to just play it straight down the middle is you know, it's it's important to continue doing that and and and maintained in partiality in order for assistance to know that no matter who they are or where they live or what who they vote for that. They're both get account one last question and that is for people have questions about voting whether it's by mail or it's in person or anything else. Where do they go? Michigan.gov that is your lifeline your portal to all that you need to know from your clerk's office location to your dropbox location to your to where to register to vote in a request your valid email to you or any just questions you have about voting and I'll also add we set up other website michigan.gov election security where citizens go can go for information to confirm the security of our elections and get information on all that. We're doing the secure their vote Jocelyn Benson was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. 3 to pull that infections is continuing to climb in Michigan. The 7-Day rolling average has gone from a low of Thirty One in mid-june up to 994 last week the new daily reported cases Rose 12.6% and the new daily reported deaths Rose 20% covid-19 and hospitalizations Rosie 37.6% and among the reported test. The positivity rate was 3% and as we've already discussed that seems like the perfect time to take away the governor's emergency powers to act wage to protect us from the virus, even though Michigan's doing among the better States and performance. We are surrounded by states that are having real big problems right now. Wisconsin's rates have gone up drastically Indiana is now wide open again. They've gotten rid of everything including the mask mandate in Indiana. The bars are a hundred percent of the restaurants are a hundred percent. That really concerns me, Ohio even though wow. The governor there Mike dewine, is that a really good job. He's under tremendous political pressure to open that stayed up prematurely and now Michigan is going to be under a lot of pressure cuz we've got Mike Shirkey especially the Senate Majority Leader who's just decided that a few extra deaths is worth it. If it means we can help our economy along. Well some good news and additional twenty weeks of unemployment benefits are now possible for laid off workers who qualified for benefits through our regular unemployment insurance is going to make a difference people can collect now up to fifty nine weeks in many cases on unemployment. The benefits are not massive will at least help a little bit for the many people who can't find work a lot of people the unemployment remains high but the impact is really very uneven people in lower-paying jobs are the ones that are really being impacted especially in the industry that has been devastated Food Service, both restaurants and Convention centers polyguard years the business editor of bridge Magazine on log. And she has taken a closer. Look at how the industry is responding Paul. It seems to me that the one set in summary of your article is dining out. It's never going to be the same in Michigan. Yeah, that's very possible a lot of changes during the summer. It's been possible for a lot of restaurants to have patio seating. A lot of people are like me they won't go inside but the patios worked out well packages are no longer an option in the state of Michigan for the next few months. How are these restaurants going to be able to respond? They're trying to figure that out right now. I've seen a few communities actually extend the month or seating that they expanded during the summer, but that's kind of aspirational in many in many ways. I don't think that there are many restaurants out there who can go out in the 4th. I don't think there are many restaurants out there who can afford to just go out and buy a lot of new equipment like Space Invaders or set up enclosed patios or come up with other ways of investing into doing outdoor dining during Michigan's winter much less fall. Yeah, it seems like there's two worlds when it comes to the retail restaurant business. I be getting at my email a lot of promotions from the big chains off offering all sorts of deals to induce me to come in but somebody who owns the diner down the street, they simply don't have the capital to invest either in their building or to invest in marketing like that. They going to disappear off it's something we have to worry about. I live in Ann Arbor and we've actually seen lots of chains close particularly in the room communities around the city where they said over on the highways around the office corridors and I think a lot of people I see a lot of people supporting the local restaurants and really thinking about them in a different way, but we have to worry about them. They're facing all sorts of challenges. And it's not just things like capacity. I saw a bagel maker this morning warned about increased costs for supplies. So she's raising prices and she's apologizing to her customers off, which I think is completely unnecessary given how much you know, we love and want them to be able to stand business one of the areas that you focus on a lot of your article is when we don't think about a lot what we think of our restaurants and that's the convention business which relies heavily on large volumes and large volume just isn't a possibility. What are the Resort's telling you the large banquet centers, they're struggling, you know, I think they are a hidden part of the industry. But when you consider a downtown Grand Rapids, which is the second largest Convention Center in Michigan and you consider the choice of restaurants there and the Vitality that they bring to the streets of downtown Grand Rapids and the way they give that sense of sense of prosperity to a town There's activity and then wage Tivity begets more activity and it's just an exciting place to be and that's fueled in large part with the big hotels and the convention center will bring in people to the town so long that's outside money that supporting it too which is also important for a community but like we wouldn't have what we have in downtown Detroit or downtown Grand Rapids or other Big Sisters without the convention business. You've talked a lot with the industry leaders their Association leaders. What are some of the things they're suggesting to at least give their members a chance of survival? Well, everybody comes to capacity but they understand that that depends on a lot of consumer confidence, you know, are we ready to go back inside would it matter if we went to a hundred percent capacity for a typical restaurant would it matter if we let a traditional bar open if people don't actually want to be inside so there's that tension there with just a Winslow of Michigan Restaurant & Lodging Association suggests and other people are supporting it is worth Banding the opening becomes a little more aspirational and that the rest of us become a part of that that there are actually more transparent regulations or more transparent goals for the state to New York City and you know, he would like to see that how highly publicized he'd like the public to buy into it to kind of consider the role of you know, we're closed if I go out without a mask that might endanger it or you know, we're five days away from being able to open let's keep going. Let's do a good job with this. He thinks that would make a difference. This is part of a larger infrastructure too. Of course your your life in Ann Arbor college football's gone, even though they're playing it's not the college football we're used to here in Lansing. We've got the same problem and they were generating huge numbers of people for Thursday. It's for the hotels do they think that the refunding of the Pure Michigan advertising is going to help at least generate some traffic. They think it's going to help generate some but they basically missed the whole summer c e Of trying to get more going and summer was a terrible. There's a lot of activity in a lot of areas in Michigan, but it's obviously dying off right now the college towns kept things going in the fall in a traditional sense, but that's not happening this year either as you know, with with football parents weekends are being canceled. So like every college town is going to feel it and then the big football communities were taking millions and millions. So that was the bridge between a summer season and the holidays and then things typically drop off in January after all of that this year who knows what it's going to look like a while there be big Christmas gatherings in restaurants, possibly, not January always terrible February, you know, they have to stretch it out to Spring and at that point where a year into this and they've had to really compromise for a long time for all of the best illustration of the overall problem is represented by Disney just this week. They've laid off twenty nine thousand people in their businesses in New Jersey. Specifically in their theme parks, yeah, that's enormous Florida gets a lot of flak for the pace of its reopening and I think a lot of it is deserved. I think it's not projected as a thought-out plan in many respects. But when you think about what's happening at a place like Disney, which is a Statewide economic generator, like most of us don't even have in other states and that's that's that's a lot of people that's a lot of people out of work. It's a lot of money that's not flowing in that state did the PPP program just delay the problem or we about now to see a huge crash in the hospitality industry because that money's run out. I'm not sure if crash is the right word, but I am hearing the payroll is inflated so places that are operating at lower capacity. Everything was you know, as good as it's going to get in the summer. It's not going to get any better this fall in terms of volume. So they don't need the people that they've had over the summer and they may have been operating with a few extra people that song. Truly didn't need because they had the PPP access so we could be seeing another wave of layoffs. Only Gardner from bridge magazine the business watch editor. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you off outdoor lovers for Biden. It's a saying which includes several prominent Republicans one of them Bill rustem who served as a senior policy adviser to both Governor William Milliken and Governor Rick Snyder. Well sports event and sports women for Biden is National Organization out to get people to vote vote for Joe Biden for president. It's it's a group of people both Republicans and Democrats who have decided that we just can't take it anymore that they're been enough attacks on our hunting and fishing Heritage both in terms of protection of the habitat that has got to be there if you're going to hunt or fish and in terms of Public Access that wage We just would much rather see Joe Biden as president than the the then Donald Trump you personally in your distinguished career. Probably the Highlight was still the boss. You spent working for. Governor Bill Milliken. The thing that occurs to me is that Milliken and Biden on a personal level seem very similar. Yeah, I I think they are they're they're they're moderates there. Ugh tempered. They're not they don't shout. They they try to reach compromises with people and not not bullying people and that's that's an important important part of democracy. You know, there was there's an empathy Factor there too with both of them. No question. No question. The governor governor Milliken couldn't empathize with with about anyone and Joe Biden has that characteristic as well as you look across the nation. I know y'all ever remember in our long lives this number of people crossing over you probably would have to go back to nineteen sixty-four when Barry Goldwater was the Republican nomination see a lot of Republicans across over to the Democrats and even then it wasn't as big as it is now. I think there are a lot of traditional Republicans who are not complications. And like me I continue to say I'm a republican but I can't abide by his policies and some of the most important are those related to happen. I mean, this is an Administration that is proposed opening America's Coastal Waters to All American cultural except for Florida where marolargo happens to sit two oil and gas they've permitted the use of seismic guns for exploration and the ocean that Farms marine life and fish. They've they've his his administration in their in their budget has first they zeroed out and then they took 90% away the Great Lakes restoration and it should have in each of the first three budgets. Had to be restored by by the by the work of Debbie stabenow and Gary Peters and Fred Upton and and others he he just just have to see if they have any Affinity or interest in the outdoor Heritage that Teddy Roosevelt's really helped create in America Teddy Roosevelt, of course was a republican. He was a Republican and he said that the nation Really? Behaves well, if it if it treats its natural resources as something to be enhanced and not destroyed and that's one thing that I don't think Donald Trump understands. We are going to be handing a natural resource-based globally and in America because it is not interest in science is non-belief inside job in a much worse place than we grew up in Walt you spearheaded on behalf of Governor Milliken probably the most significant environmental initiative in the home of the state the bottle bill which has been a huge success for what forty-five years now since you since you passed that and it's worked it's worked. Yeah, you know you listen to science you don't listen to science and you do so at your own Peril and I think we're seeing that across the globe in America. If we don't protect these natural resources those birth attached for fish for wildlife for songbirds Those are the things that sustain us we have to have clean water. We have to have clean air. We have to have healthy forests that absorb the carbon dioxide without breaking them going to happen without reading a man. I haven't raped mine in a while. I don't I probably ought to get out and do that stuff and I guess but we have to do that and we are neglecting all Thursday. We're going to hand our children huge problems. You also of course worked for Governor Snyder. Were you surprised when he came out for Joe Biden? I was not yet because he didn't didn't support Trump when Trump ran the first time he was a supporter of John Kasich and I don't think he liked Trump's demeanor and certainly his demeanor in the presidency had to me has gotten worse and he he believes like Milliken did that you bring people together to try to work through problems and not shout at people and try to bully people into positions. And as we saw in a debate try to just shout them down without without giving people an opportunity to discuss things aside, her didn't like doesn't like that kind of of activity doesn't believe it has a place in in a healthy democracy still Russia. Thanks so much for joining us on the Pod. Yeah glad to be here. Well, Attorney general Dana nessel has dropped the hammer a couple of right-wing political operatives responsible for 12,000 robocalls into Detroit. They were designed to discourage African-Americans from voting the to face multiple felony charges that could put them in prison for more than 20 years. What I thought about for a long time is what is the point of having all these laws on the books in regard to voter suppression voter intimidation threats against voters if we never actually enforce them and what we know about 2016 is that Trump didn't win because of the people who voted for him in Michigan he won because of the people who didn't vote at all and that is what I think these folks are trying to accomplish trying to suppress the vote and scare people into not voting off during the course of a global pandemic and we're not having it in this state the Michigan campaign Finance network is projecting a record one hundred million dollars will be spent on Michigan's US Senate wrong. This year the bitter battle between Senator Gary Peters and Challenger. John James has evolved into a series of high-priced attack ads Larry Sabato touched on the Senate campaign during his virtual wage to MSU and said that Gary Peters biggest problem is that he's not your typical senatorial publicity Hound. I wouldn't want to call in a comment Senator invisible, but he's clearly not as visible as many Senate candidates are around the country or even in the Senate not that there's anything wrong with being low key when you have a hundred very large egos in the Senate. It's nice to have somebody who doesn't insist on the spotlight every hour on the hour. But Gary Peters poll ratings are weaker than you might expect an incumbent Democrat to be though. He's ahead ahead in the polling averages. He's a head in the the gold-plated polls that I rely on a great deal. So it's still probable that he will win. Especially if Joe Biden carries, Michigan as he shoved, Currently favored to do. I thought it was a 15 to sabotage said that with the Peters James raised one of the things that makes it so interesting for him. Is there so very few Republican pick up opportunities that the money is flooding in to help John James just because they got nowhere else to put it the Alabama race is pretty well a a done deal for Tommy tuberville. The former football coach who was running against Senator Doug Jones and everywhere else there on defense and not doing very well. Meanwhile John James just got another campaign Finance violation claim against him. But on the plus side is McConnell Super PAC just sent him in nine million bucks to help him in the campaign in the closing days of the campaign. But again, it may be too late because the the Voting is off already so far so deeply underway. The other thing too is when when super Pacs spend money on T the advertising cost them more money per minute than it does for a job. Themself because of FCC regulations the TV stations basically have to give candidate committees. They're very biggest discount for advertising. It's called lowest unit rate. Whereas the super Pacs life. I remember from my days in broadcasting. We used to take the independent committees. They we would get as much money out of them as we could squeeze because there were no limits on how much we could charge them. So they may only get one third or a quarter of the airtime for the same dollar. Yeah. I saw that the Michigan Republican party was trying to spend all this Super PAC money as you know momentum for John James. I don't really think that's wrong. You measure momentum. Certainly John James is getting more out of this race than you would without that support. But I want to link to some sources and I'm going to write up some tweets and stuff. But I just want to point out that Gary Peters is like Larry said Gary is not a flashy guy out trying to get attention. If you look at the 2019 gov track record for Gary Peters how many bills wage? Sponsored that have actually made it through committee that have had influential and bipartisan co-sponsors and that have had companion bills in the house. He's missed zero on a four hundred thousand votes zero. He's out there just doing his job. So these people will say like the Republicans are trying to paint him as being invisible. He's not invisible. He's working his record backs it up and I'm going to put these sources in the show notes. But yeah, he's not out there showing off, you know standing next to props from his gig as Lieutenant Commander In The Navy he's just doing the work that he was hired to do and John James is always standing next to a helicopter or behind a missile or in his Logistics business next to a bunch of shipping crates wage. Yeah, he's not saying a whole heck of a lot. In fact, I mentioned the campaign Finance violations. This has been his response so far to the latest complaint about campaign Finance violations, There is some good news though will actually talk about governing for a second somehow some way the governor and the legislature have come together on a new budget for the fiscal year that started October 1st. It was remarkably Cooperative with the legislative leadership and the governor working together, especially given the fact that they don't have a lot of money to work with but they haven't been hurt as bad by the pandemic as they thought they might be we could talk about in the budget but quite honestly, I think we could confuse folks or something. You've got to look at. So let's just link to that in the the notes on the the website. It does though fund the got some of the governors priority just more money for roads in there. There's more money in there for K-12 education and there is money for reinvestment into the water infrastructure. So that we we have fewer Flint's in the future. We have fewer incidents in the future. I give props to both sides for coming up with a budget that actually kind of makes sense like we it has over 40 billion dollars in federal assistance in this in this budget job. Which helped us to keep k12 and local Revenue sharing and Tech and like you said, we got a pretty decent budget out of it. And what happened Mike Shirkey was a complete douche in a right to Twitter and said this shows what we can get done when we work together as our founding fathers intended, you know, he's obviously taken this shot over, you know, the governor's use of her emergency powers and just want to point this out that unless the founding fathers intended for us to get screwed over by one major party. That is not what the founding fathers intended. The Republicans have done. Nothing to help with us. It was the Republicans who stood up and said that Democratic Governors shouldn't get federal aid because it's a blue State bailout because you know, I didn't run our budgets the way they wanted us to and it was the Republicans that screwed up the pandemic response. It was the Republicans. It was Trump in particular who said he he was home. Threatened our funding over absentee ballots and mail and a boating and he didn't fund our national guard for a pandemic response and shirking only Chatfield are thick as thieves with these people. So often a partisanship is not a case of them being a good partner. So we've we got what was probably the best budget we could get out of this but when we look at something like the budget and we think her a bipartisanship and and he calls it, you know, something that the founding fathers intended it's not it's not we're in this mess. We only got out of this this year because of all that Federal money that they opposed every step of the way. Yeah, he's also double speak when it comes to cooperation between the legislative branch and the executive branch. He didn't seem to have any problem at all. When the Trump Administration ignored every subpoena that came out of Congress or the President issued executive orders on virtually everything. It's it's a birth To go fighting. All right time for the attack ad of the week. As always. We've got a tough competition runner-up goes to the Lincoln project for an Internet Ad narrated by the hero of the Hudson Captain Chesley Sully sullenberger leadership is not just about sitting in the Pilot's seat. It's about knowing what you're doing and taking responsibility for it being prepared ready and able to handle anything that might come your way. I've been flying over this country for 53 years fifty-three years of Lights, you'd never heard of life and one that you've heard everything about the only Miracle on the Hudson everyone on board 155 people make it out alive. My whole life prepared me that moment from my father a naval officer in World War Two. I learned the awesome responsibilities of command from my services an Air Force officer in a fighter pilot. I knew that serving a cause rather than one job. Is the highest color and it's in that highest calling of leadership that Donald Trump has failed us. So miserably now it's up to us to overcome. His attacks are very democracy knowing nearly a quarter of a million Americans won't have a voice casualties of his lethal lies and incompetence eleven years ago. I was called To My Moment song. Now, we are all called to this moment. When you look down at our beautiful boundless country. You don't see a political divisions. It reminds us of who we are and what we can be off that we are in control of this nation's Destiny. All we have to do is vote him out votevets in the Lincoln project are responsible for the content of this advertising found our winner for this week the Midas touch which responded almost immediately to the president's infection with covid-19. It's called Trump's lies have consequences. I think wearing a phone number Basque I don't know somehow I don't see it for myself the second. Can you take it off because I cannot hear I'll just speak louder sir. This guy could you want to be politically correct? Go ahead. No, sir. I just want to wear the mask off virtually. Nobody. It's a it's an amazing thing. I don't wear masks like him every time you see him. He's got a mess. He could be speaking to hundred feet away from it. He shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen is a president of the United States now confirming to the world that he and the first lady of the United States have both tested positive for the coronavirus and they will quarantine song. It is what it is. And that's a wrap for this week's pandemic pod head on over to our website Michigan policastro, I'll have links and tweets and stuff that you can use to get a bank check us or share No hospital reports Uno Chicago medical reports vaccines coupons. They get some hydroxychloroquine, whatever you can email us at Mi polycast at gmail.com or reach out through the emission calling cache page on Facebook run Club app avoid crowds maintain social distancing mask up and stay safe back in Michigan polycast was a production of Michigan citizens for a better tomorrow.

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Fitbit for pets and can Maru stop online bullying?

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28:22 min | 2 months ago

Fitbit for pets and can Maru stop online bullying?

"Serious question as your cat reached its daily step counts. Yes this week on. Download this show the fascinating. World of fitness trackers for pets. This more reasons for it than you might think also on the show across the world more than half of girls online have experienced some form of harassment or abuse. But can it be tackled by check. Bought an automated pace of technology to advice on how to deal with it and twitter have unleashed the lightest new failure. And in surprise to precisely no-one lots of people are complaining. What is it and other really brought to the complaining but find out this. Is your god do the weekend media technology and culture. My name is marc fennell and woke up down by this. Yes data is downloaded. And we are joined by technology writer. Reporter andy breakfast. Presentative ibis say west implying. Nikki haley lovely bay and she is a psychologist. She's a sophist psychologist cyber psychology research. I knew i'd sit. It would get me jocelyn borough. Welcome back down the shai. Thank you thank you all right. So we're gonna walk across a few things in the show but i wanna start with something. Very strange happened to twist in the last couple of days. What is it. it's cold colder flight Another in a long line of twitter. Faith.' that nobody else for knows what to do with the basis of it is a bit like a a story on facebook or instagram. It's a tweet that disappeasr twenty four hours later theoretically a the appeal the tweeting without consequence. Now i'm going back over twelve years of things you've said to bring out later on if if you is in trouble but twenty four hours disappearing tweet. People have been saying that appear at the top of the app and paypal and not enjoying it. I can tell i got. I think you're being very generous with it. Is one hundred percent or rip off of instagram. Stories was a rip off of snapchat jocelyn. Tell me i'm wrong. You completely correct. I think they should have just called. Brain fought though because it seems like we were already kind of just tweeting out. It was kind of like that internal part of your brain now. We haven't even kind of less permanent aspect of that on twitter and can't do fight always in man why couldn't they just give us the ability to correct typos instead. That's the only thing. I think that twitter actually needs to be doing right now. The part of this. I found confusing papal used to using inscribe stories or even facebook stories which is remarkably similar. Why has it been a negative reaction to literally the same functional piece of technology on twitter. Just like why do you think there's been that reaction look personally. I think that many people use twitter and completely different way to why they use the other platforms and soifer may. It is much more of an academic space. I guess a workspace. It's not as personal and definitely not as visual an iconic understand what turned into he because it easel about kind of not having the pressure on things being there forever and being trolled through and that potentially being used to ruin your life if he did say them at a time. Where maybe you you've changed your opinions. And things like that. But i i don't know i think twitter's really busy and we go there for different things so let's just kind of yeah not have so much noise. We use these social media's bases in very different ways i don't think we want a homogenized experience across all of them i mean for me. Twitter is mostly about sort of you know maybe a little main occasionally. But i'll get very time bought facebook's about being earnest and and i don't really use a lot of instagram to be perfectly honest dies. I just don't understand why. Twitter thought this was necessary when there are so many other options about this and i think you and i have had chats about these in previous incarnations like i think when instagram stories we will like what hang on. Hasn't snapchat got this covered. We do this every single time. Trying to get young to kind of use it. He's that kind of one of the things that you know. Maybe missing from twitter because life is not the same Younger demographic who were doing the tiktok so the all that kind of jazz. I'm just trying to get. This is the sort of thing where like we winge about it now but in four months time rojas using it because i vaguely remember having the same reaction to instagram stories story. We did but you also remember the reaction when twitter changed a favorite to a hot. Yes backlash against utah. One the fault might be with us down. I never thought. I would say that. But i think maybe we just i think people get really funny about changing me. Spaces like remember. When easter the only status update on facebook could do was like framed in jocelyn eve johnson. We really freaked out when that change. And every time there's a reformulation of the layouts are instagram. The layout at the moment. I can't find my notifications because they've moved to the top and so we do take time to adjust to that and we get because i think we're using it so often we on autopilot when we are looking for these things anything new feels like. Oh my gosh who's vein in my space sometimes is that we have that reaction like like. I'm not necessarily asking you to to a psychological assessment of the uses of twitter here. But but what is that that that sort of that is their accountability that we get with user interfaces. That is hard to bright johnson. Yeah i think so. I think we get used to knowing things are and it feels like the furniture being rearranged when we have no control over it like we can try laundryman. Oh the on different walls. So obviously there's reasons why they do that so that we're not getting comfortable when we are kind of having to rediscover a news more attention to Be become more engaged again So this cognitive Lloyd i guess that goes into all whereas this gone an exploring it and then getting used to it. So it's just kind of shake us up and rattles back into paying a bit more attention to that particular platform. I think we don't tend to light change but then we also tend to forget. That happened sort of after we've adjusted to it Go back to win. People threaten to quit quit instagram on mass. Because they changed the way the gradient worked in their logo. You remember that. Believe it or not. I have forgotten this incredibly huge event. At the time. I will say this in classic twitter style. I haven't made this to work particularly well. We've already seen it work around that. Let people look these twenty four hour disappearing flakes well after that twenty four hours had expired. No no twitter fixing that now but it doesn't seem to have been rushed and i find that really curious in the same wake. Instagram also rolled out a new version of its app with a pretty significant giants to his layout and and and they could be. I'm just calling different people. But i feel like the backlashes bane as dramatic even though i think they've actually changed quite a great deal to instagram. And one of the things. I've noticed is when i put my finger. I have different parts of instagram. A little pop up. Hey this isn't where it used to be. It's now up there. Are they things you can do offline. Innovative design particularly something that people use so instinctively that the thing is not to go to a certain part of the screen things. You can do that help. Make that transition feel less jarring for people. We can warn them. That it's coming rather than just kind of popping up and i think even with the business suite that facebook is using it has been that transition and there is you wanna use the old kind of interface or do you want the news. So there's of these choice point before they throw you into the deep end so one is just preparing the brighton. For for the fact that change is coming and then absolutely kind of guiding you to things might bay At an an. I guess giving you a little she to'real when you update your apple. Whatever to actually show you where things have moved to and kind of. Yeah she you into that new space. Generally there don't move anything i mean. It's so intuitive. Like the you know the little icons a little icons. He just talked to scan a little bit harder to find them again. It's getting you to pay attention and re retune habits tori that new Interface interfaces interesting because interfaces separate two features again and i think we're more resistant to additional features maybe than we ought to an interface design will initially get cranky. But if everything we're looking for is still there will adjust to it quickly any fatal especially one on for especially on a service where we have been asking for change and significant change and not getting it. There's a frustration he. There's always a sense that we're not being listened to as users and i think that's what three really kind of peoples are up on this download. The show is what you're listening to. It is your god to the week. In media technology and culture we have psychologist jocelyn bra joining us and nikki. Technology writer and breakfast presented with abc western plains. Mock fidel is my name and it has been cold. An anti harassment chat bot. That's been designed by young people for young people and i want to get into wide exists. But let's start with what it is jocelyn. Can you introduce me to to monitor. What exactly is it is a chat. Bot we'll help you do with. I guess guide you through what to do if you're being abused or harassed online so it works like many chat box chat bought it uses and l. pay not neuro linguistic programming note natural language processing so basically econo- guesses and has look what kinds of questions that people might ask in the space in the way that they might frame them and they kickoff a conversation to help you actually navigate through what to do. If you're experiencing the different forms of what we innocently. I guess would commonly cold cyber abuse. Soy the a safety commission has a whole section for adult cyber abuse. That includes things like doc. Single date fakes and stuff like that. So it will literally is a little not human thing which will help you navigate that information to try and get the help that you need when given the The research plan deed around these was that huge numbers of women and girls are experiencing on harassment so this as mentioned dot com from the girls rights organization plan international. Any technology collective feminists nick. If i was to open it up. I'm just on a visual level. What does it look like. Sort of designed to actively. Avoid so the gender stereotypes. It's been quite clever in that regard. But how do i interact with. The default was the target audience for it. Look it does look like chat window and it's really quite fascinating have apply with because it gives you options of how you want to respond. But the very natural language as jocelyn was saying so essentially. You feel like you're engaging in a conversation you not in your responses you choosing from a limited range of responses but it does feel like a failing natural conversation in a chat style window. We see that young people especially have a preference for online communications or something like kids helpline actually off online chats and things like that because they're much more comfortable in that online space and saw given that where we're really dealing with hundreds of thousands of people across the globe pre potentially these information. It's a really cost effective. And affective i guess way of looking at what are some of because it gathers information. I guess as you by stone were asking questions. About and kind of issue. I you experiencing so it's actually gathering daughter as it guards and then directing paypal to obviously the trusted sources of information. So i think it's effective and it feels A gap to the degree that it can maybe help with some lower level experiences and then direct on the right actions to take so. You'll lower cool Police would you safety commissioner. If you're in australia for instance so it's that intermediate step that's really helpful and it makes people in a space that they're really comfortable. That's more just concerned with it as how it is i guess marketed one of a better term. Wanna make sure that people using it understand that. It's it's providing information. It's not a counseling service. Which i just worry when we hear the term chat bot yeah given that there is such a rise of that great chat based influ devices when it comes to counseling that people do understand this is about information and i think it works pretty quickly like one of the first things that will say is are you safe and you have an option to indicate. Am i safe no. I'm not safe. But i don't know what to do. So that then will open up. I guess the next decision tray of what you what you want to answer as to where you are and then direct you in the right place. So i mean i guess i was conscious of interacting with it because i was like well. I'm not paying her. So i don't want to take up your time and there was like all right. But you'll notice person euro-border a dozen matter which is exactly why it can be so effective. Is it tells them you know. As long as the back end can manage of queries coming in I'm not necessarily using up your counselor. kids helplines time by Exploring that with with an actual person. I guess so see. That's exactly the thing i not abroad. How does it change. How does it change a person's interaction if they know if they know that it's not real like do you think china's abba hy-vee the sorts of questions you ask if you'd realize is there's not another person on the other end of the line yes the anonymity effects i guess is what drives a lot of terrible behavior online but also is what allows people to be more authentic and take risks with asking for what they need saw To some degree. I think yes the you might actually be more honest with something. If you know that you're not necessarily being tracked Or you're not face to face with another human let alone just typing to another human. So i think it works in different ways for different people based on what their concerns are because with maru you have limited responses anyway. So there's a limit to how much difference you can be giving in those responses. That's right a very specific kind of area that it's looking at when you go outside of the itself onto the website. There's an incredible amount of Racehorses they're in a lot more information and kind of help guides own different kind of it was designed Certainly not within. Australia was designed with the act of all around the world. How did i sort of accommodate for cultural differences in communications jocelyn Look i think that have just Really exploited from different an. I think this is built into the chapel when economy. Indicate where you are that we some of those differences Show up There's obviously a an lbj. Lbj t q a Element to that And as i guess that collaborative nature of just An the research itself which is brought up exactly some of the challenges in those different regions an and the stylized Of abuse whether it be kind of slut shaming or Homophobia all of that sort of stuff. Nick the other things like this around the world that already existed in otherwise. I've seen a lot of chat bots when it comes to mental health. And there's been some really intriguing ones out there from whoa bought to Wiser a number of those. They tend to work The short term goal oriented Johnson took more about these but they tend to be more around cognitive cognitive behavioral. Therapy changing those behaviors. They've really affected. There's been a lot of research done into just what is going to mean for the mental health and on a couple of years ago twenty four different chat bots were kind of Put under the microscope and there was a lot of hope that in a couple as we could say some really really interesting things being done in that space so yeah. There's a lot of work being done here. Yeah got really fantastic example Again you know some of these scores little way to deal with the intermediate issues that people might have indirect people through some of the basics of cognitive behavioral therapy And sometimes can do a better job than maybe i would do face to face in therapy because it sticks to the script and actually speaks to Exactly you know i'm human. I'm gonna ask a whole bunch of questions whereas if we would when we manuals sabe and one of the reasons that you know some people would say it's not effective anymore as effective as it was when it first came out people go off the script a lot more they. Introducing flack Therapy into it and and it's not a pure form that someone like iron beck who created it actually would have delivered as standard is party. Call so We actually can track People who are using these and measure the outcomes of things like what really well Because it is is but then again just like with marar we really want to be able to capture people who are maybe not benefiting from that is other coma did koi. He's going on and other things that they actually been your need the The nuances of of human observation and conversation to pick up the the gaps and fill those gaps in. What support for johnson. Just three people listening to this might not be familiar with that concept of cognitive behavior. Therapy walk us through. What exactly is seen as one of the most well recognized kind of therapy with the biggest evidence base so the very basic solve. It is the three as well. I generally share with moist clients. The first one easy to catch yourself having a negative thought or habit loop from the one that you can't get you know getting yourself talking to check in with that foot two rue. He's a evidence for it is helpful. Does it actually moving towards where you want to be and then to finally change so actually shift. Oh flip the thought into a more positive iteration of what you're actually your goal is the way you wanna be. What role do you think. Artificial intelligence can play in cognitive behavioral therapy in the future. If given that it is sort of methodical at its buys. We've had fantastic programs for many years for mu gm you. I'm gonna forget all the names of the ones that have come out through from you know old different organizations For several are usually their web based the fact that they're moving more. I guess to Apps and that mobile aspect again just Port a lot of ability to deliver. The menu is standardized. Kind of program into your fine so I guess many paper That sense of. I'm not really talking to a human and getting the language rights are really getting the empathy in the responses and even the kind of local language the way that you would talk to retain now versus even a couple years ago. Some of the woods that he'd us might be a little bit different so It's all about obviously with iot needs to cape learning and it needs to cape adopting and it needs the people who i guess program it to cape adopting it as well. Sorry just specifically with tackling harassment. Nick the other programs out there that stood out to you as being particularly effective at dealing with it may be creative in how they deal with online harassment. Look nothing like the synoptic. Been really intriguing about it Dc's taking it to a level where it's a pro ching the people who are being targeted in a way that they can feel comfortable communicating comfortable talking about what's upsetting them as well as giving them access to the information. I need a daunting anything's done. At quotas intriguing lays down. There was a little while ago. I don't know that anyone caught the goodness spots. No what's that couldn't goodness kindness going to have like a mind fun. Around these monica lewinsky had announced and basically if somebody had tweeted you something a bit main you tweeted goodness bought or the cons and it would tweet you back the kind of more positive version so it would almost. Cpt the the rookie rookie tweet. It's something with having i remember. I used to feed it things for a while. The opposite of trolls. Yeah yeah you get the kindness bought to do it for you. I love some of this invasion and even on a more basic level I know this year. A text based counseling service really took off for people in rural areas. Where maybe an app wasn't perfect. Certainly a web chat wasn't quite. I weren't comfortable talking to someone face to face but actually takes back and forth with a real person was an incredibly effective wife them. I think we're we're approaching. These mental health concerns by targeting. What a person is capable of dealing with capable of opening up to. And i think that's really essential and we've gotta get creative about that is possible download. This show is the name of the program. You're listening to these. You'll god to the wake. In media technology and culture you listen to the voices of psychologists jocelyn bro. she's the founder of digital nutrition and also nikki haley who is technology writer and the house of breakfast on the western plains. Marksville is my name and does your pet native fitbit. I feel like. I know the answer to this. One really stretching the would need there because that is the thing that nikki haley exists have existed for a long time. But i love the so much i genuinely. I really do this one in particular the series tag. These are the guys who did the accounts that have to get the fifth and look. I love the idea. So we're talking about dogs cats eighties monitoring their movements but when it comes to an animal we learn so much from their movement so we can learn health. We can learn mood but we can also learn going during the diet. You can track them no just for health but making show this dying within the area. There's supposed to be. But also i think there's implications here for what wildlife could be getting damaged by how many times you'll pit strang out of where it's supposed to be more of these one hundred of them. I think they're fantastic. Okay so we are talking about something called the companion kala here. Nick cappos since. I'm just going to discount off the things you just said jocelyn fit. I literally thought this was about arben dogs. That would not getting enough walking in. Were trying to drag noise depression or something. I'm sorry it's so unbelievably redfin. I was like oh no those dogs in apartments not getting enough walks. And then i was like oh nari. It's a five thousand dollar so if you run amok and you get out of your backyard and you harassing the local i by pluribus. Whatever as of now she's sorry like. I'm not a dog person on looking at three tricks in my backyard and they do not need this color. Yeah i just didn't get it or people already put their feet on the dog so they can like fake that they get lots of steps anyway if a hood that's amazing this attack by like the pet owners. Labile whatever meek matinee argument for why there is benefit to tracking and quantifying the movement of want. Well i got for five dollars. A five thousand dollars is i'm not gonna lie. There's many many cheaper options out there but they do quite necessarily what this one does concerned about pets. That track abilities really good as i said before. If your pets lying around all day you could be looking at mood or health issues and if you're not knowing what they behavior. Is that th really good to know. There is a health aspect making show. They're getting enough movement as well. But i go back to especially cats and dogs roaming well without the area. They're supposed to be. That actually has implications tonight if wildlife. And i think this is really really important now. I remember five years ago at the big picture that they do in las vegas every year. There was so much take on despise the website. I was working for the time. Put me on the pay technology bait. And i had to run around and do nothing but talk about hitler show. I was crazy. But some of the ones i had there were amazing. Motorola had designed a doug cola that included a camera and speak us not only. Could you track where your doug was. Say what it was saying. You could issue. Voice commands to your dog over distance. All this stuff goes way deep day. Would you like what technology justin do you think would benefit your relationship with your chickens out of anything in the world. I have chicken cam video chicken squad because they've really mindful that just kind of pick around. I mean the brightens the size of a pay and they quite hilarious. So i mean we could. We could put a guard pro and they had and just give a little united. Mindful pecking To the world. So i just have to. What what what does mindful chicken look like as distinct from a non mindful chicken. My chickens affray ryan. I guess sorry. I've never really looked at caged caged chickens and gone. Oh you look different. But i don't know. I feel like we're going. We look we need a new fry's strolling around like a choke with its head still on yes of all the different kinds of technology and i don't mean to pedic because i do understand the arguments you put up earlier or very strong mic. Please come up but in terms of all the tech that you did encounter. Are the things. There was lots of outlandish stuff at the things that you think. Actually you know what this should become more mainstream because right now everything you disarming sound like there's a hell of a lot more technology of pets and they raise for like keeping track of my children. It varies significantly more. Because i think more people are comfortable strapping technology. Do they pets and they are their kids to be perfect. Would want us indicates the school with the caller on to in new south wales. You not allowed to send your kids with smartphones in or even smartwatches yet but if market can say yeah no. I've never known that. Do genuinely think there is needs to be a better awareness for pet owners about what they're when they're not around. I'll just a non hopping on about but go back on the cat book. I'm not a cat owner anymore. I'm a cat lover. And i know that are destructive baseds when it comes to night of wildlife cat should be indoors only and if you are not going to be an indoor cat on then you need to have a really strong understanding what. Your cats behaviors are when you're not there to look after it because that's part of the responsibility. I think something like this could really help. I just think be cost-ineffective to those with the not really going to care about you. Know spend five thousand dollars and you cats call about there's different solutions like the good old bail or the thing that will if your cat gets out. Okay you cut out then watch warning system for the ninety wildlife to go okay. The cats on the loose. Oy what kind of things cannot then do to make sure that. It's not having that impact. Because i agree. That's an important one but the bill is still being the cat from doing the damage. Something like this is giving you. The understanding of what damage can do allowing you to make the right decisions wrong. Sorry i am listening. I'm also just updating your bio on the down this show website to just say nikki. Haley cat lover lover so strange we are out of time. Jocelyn barua co-founder of digital nutrition. Psychologist thank you so much for joining us back on the pleasure thing. I look forward to having you back again and nikki. Haley dada no wait. Sorry just cat. Lover cat loving tequila. Welcome thank you for coming back into you and with that high. If you're enjoying the show Plays later review on whichever podcasting app and a very big. Thank you to those of you. Who have already downloaded other show here at. Abc stuff the british stall. I think you might have seen it. It's gone to number one on the ethereal apple. podcast shots. That are those of you. The downloaded it very big. Thank you to you as well. I'll back next week with a brand new website download. The we'll say then by.

twitter instagram twenty four hours facebook jocelyn marc fennell andy breakfast jocelyn borough nikki haley jocelyn eve johnson jocelyn bra paypal abba hy one hundred percent rojas jocelyn Look twelve years twenty four hour johnson iron beck
 Election Meltdown, Part 2

Amicus with Dahlia Lithwick

32:30 min | 1 year ago

Election Meltdown, Part 2

"Aside from going to war or maybe the census holding it election is the most complicated thing we do as a country. You just expect them to work until they don't all we need to do. More to recruit and train a talented workforce of election workers on election day. Hi and welcome back to amicus. This is slates podcast about the law. The rule of law the Constitution and the Supreme Court on Dialectic and I cover over those things for slate and this is the second part of our five part series election meltdown. Rick Hassen is the author of the book of the same title. He's also a professor of election law at UC Irvine. And he's here to help us. Think about the increasingly desperate pressing question. Can American democracies survive the twenty twenty election. You know it's a pretty serious question we're asking but we're trying to ask it in a way that will get people engaged and thinking about these issues before before it's too late. Can't wait till October to worry about what's going to happen in November. What I ask could possibly go wrong with November's election so I've got two scenarios that really worried me? Imagine for two thousand type situation with trump in the White House then those precincts can't be counted a pretty wide scale voter. Purge we've been asking civil rights lawyers public officials local journalists and disinformation experts for their election doomsday scenarios imagine. It didn't deep fake the night before an election a scenario in which people did leave the Internet and take much more physical action. Air System is is only going to work if people have enough confidence in it that they can accept the results. We're not asking these questions so we all spiral into despair but instead instead to think about what we could do now before November to protect the most important thing we do as Americans voting of course if you want to spiral into despair. That's totally on you. But if you want to be part of this unbelievably important conversation. Do Join US in Washington DC on February nineteenth for the amicus election. Meltdown live show. Oh featuring former Florida gubernatorial candidate Andrew Gillum MacArthur genius fellow and Vice President of the Cyber Civil Rights Initiative Daniels Citron and and the director of the ACLU's voting rates project. Dale hope go to sleep dot com slash live particularly this week. The storm of the Senate impeachment trial of Donald J trump has swirled and blustered and buffeted. But were trying to not get blown off course with this project an amicus listener her and actually a slate contributor Scott Pill you tick said in a post about our election meltdown series on facebook. This week quote. It's not as juicy topic as the daily daily reality show. That's been the hallmark of this administration. But I have a strong sense. It may be on the final test and listen. I'm only quoting that because it is especially true of what we're going to talk about this week last week. We heard about the pernicious myth of widespread voter fraud and how it bolsters subsequent voter suppression and this week. We're turning to what Rick Incompetence. Yeah so you know voter suppression is sexy. I think in the election world as as these things go. That's our scale and Talking about competence and election ministration. Sounds like it's about as boring as it can be but when you hear some of the things that have actually gone on. It's going to raise the hair on the back of your neck. Small mistakes in election administration can snowball into big problems. Big mistakes can throw something as huge. Who won the presidency into question? Remember as we talked about last week. My main concern about both voter suppression and thinking about incompetence is how is this undermining undermining people's trust in the fairness of elections. If you think that people can't company count the votes that's a good reason to be worried about the fairness of elections so some of the podcast guests listeners. Probably are old enough to remember Bush versus Gore and the two thousand election with its famous hanging chads and voting machines that didn't work and the inability to figure out. If people were voting for Bush or Gore Pat Buchanan there was a famous for Buchanan. Vote You may remember this. The Butterfly ballots. All of this is probably bringing back some terrible terrible memories for some of your listeners. But some of your listeners. We'll probably too young or not paying attention back at that time. The upshot of the two thousand election was that we had a lot of problems with how we ran our elections one study found that about a million votes across America were lost in two thousand. Due to incompetence in how votes are being counted. You'd think that almost twenty years after Bush versus Gore we. We have gotten better. It hasn't worked out that way. At least not everywhere you can look at Broward County Florida. That was a huge mess. But we're going to focus on another another case. One has gotten a lot less attention than Brenda snipes. And Broward County Florida and her problems with counting votes in two thousand eighteen and one that could be very important which the case of Detroit Michigan and sleep plus members will actually be getting more insight into what's going on with elections in Detroit and Michigan. You owe will have access to an extended interview with Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson who actually offers a glimmer of hope. So look out for that in your slate plus feeds. And if you're not a slate plus member now's a good time to check it out with a two week. Free trial that you can find at slate dot com slash amicus plus. But before we speak to Secretary Benson. I spoke to another michigander. He's been following elections closely there for a long time. So my name is Joel Kurth. I'm the Managing Editor Attar Bridge magazine in in Michigan. We're along form nonprofit public policy journal and before that I was the editor of investigations at the Detroit News. I was the lead reporter in the two thousand sixteen election meltdown involving Detroit's Freud unaccountable precincts. There's this thing called. The Weakest Link Axiom of election ministration the accuracy of an election system and voters confidence in that. That system is only as strong as the weakest parts of that system. And the case of Detroit and more broadly Michigan as an example of this. I've been a reporter in Detroit for about fifteen years and with every election in Detroit. There's allegations of MIS MIS voting loss ballots ballots have been found in in the trunks of cars. There's often power outages at precincts during elections. There's difficulty counting ballots ballots to remember the way that trump surprisingly won. The two thousand sixteen election is that he won a narrow electoral college victory in three Midwestern states if it's fair to call Pennsylvania mid western Michigan Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and the margin across the three states was eighty eighty thousand votes. Donald Trump won by about ten thousand votes in unofficial election results in Michigan and those that razor thin. Obviously we're talking about five. Million ballots cast a few days after the election. I got a phone call from a pretty good source. That says there's not going to be able to count the ballots in Detroit. And I I think the person was trying to tip me off. Because there's a law in Michigan that says on reconciled. Votes cannot be recounted so Jill Stein. You've remember her. She was the Green Party candidate. That many Democrats think cost Clinton election some of these places. Jill Stein demands a recount the Clinton campaign. They don't think that they're going to win. In a recount. But they decide. Hi to act as observers and Michigan has these very strict regulations as Joe said about. When can you do a recount for recounts what happens? Is People cast ballots in boxes and then there's a sign and cheat as well and so the numbers on the sign in sheets have to match. It's the number of ballots in the box unless there's a reconciled difference a paper Jam a loss and they have to be caught on election night and if they're not caught on on election night with an explanation than those precincts can't be counted and so I got the took a day or so but I got the the the called reconciliation sheets of six hundred plus precincts in Detroit and I found that more than half of them. The counts were off by five or more which means that they couldn't be subject to recount by Michigan Law which is a pretty strenuous law but also given the context of Detroit's problems doesn't doesn't give a lot of faith in the system just to be clear now we're talking about boxes and checklists and stuff that's left in car car straight. This is how we decide elections in America. Like it's eighteen o four so it's not true everywhere in some places aces election administrators. Do a whole lot with very little in terms of resources but there are places where their problems and there have been great improvements in many states. But what happened in Detroit is evidence that there hasn't been improvement everywhere and if you have a really close election where's the attention GONNA go. It's go to the place. That is the weakest link so precinct. One fifty two is pretty infamous because fifty two ballots were are discovered in a ballot container. Three hundred and seven votes had been logged into a poll book and at the end of the day. They found out that there was a tub of ballots on the tabulate and that they hadn't been sealed so they couldn't couldn't be counted. I think it speaks to the general sloppiness in Detroit. It wasn't just the two thousand sixteen election the most recent election two thousand eighteen. There was another recount involving the city Clark because of misplaced ballots on sealed ballots open ballot boxes and it's pretty frequent occurrence in Detroit. This really undermined people's if feeling of integrity in the process the infamous precinct. One fifty two those ballots that had never been counted. It led to conspiracy theories aries Worldnet daily had headline quote stealing the vote recount cover series fraud in Detroit Fox News inside Claire Quote. oops Stein's recount turns up more votes. It's been voters in Detroit. And even the Detroit Free Press had an inflammatory headline quote. Detroit's election rose seven hundred eighty two more votes than voters. You got under my people's confidence process. Nothing could be less interesting than talking about tubbs uncounted ballots Out who the next president is concern on it. This is just the section Where we just talk about how we're here at it is that in the twenty first century I can pick up My phone an order Exactly the right number of Milligrams of rice in my I Chinese food we can do everything perfectly. It's delivered to our door and yet still we lose. Boxes of ballots and machines don't work and AH hanging chads determined. I mean there's a way in which so much of what you're calling incompetence is just. We run elections as though it's still rock doc in eighteen forty well so first of all last night before we recorded this podcast. My Chinese food delivery was wrong twice. Okay Hey I. They brought their own food than they forgot. The rice and Psych America's democracy crumble. If I didn't get my dinner similarly people say well why don't we just vote with. ATM machines. Well you know this billion dollars in fraud every year with ATM machines and the Republic still stands because banks are willing to absorb that as the cost of doing business if we had that level of Arab with elections. We'd be in big trouble. I mean think about this is aside from Going to war or maybe the census a holding an election is the most is complicated thing we do as a country and we have this history of decentralized elections so we don't hold one election on election day we're actually holding thousands of elections or even holding over thousand awesome elections just in the state of Michigan and most election officials do a very good job in how they run their elections. But there are these places where there are still problems so remind us rick what what in the end happens with this recount. The court stopped the recounts not only does Michigan. Have some problems with you. Know How poll poll workers are administering their elections. They also have some problems with the rules. For running recounts and This recount stopped Clinton. Didn't kick up more of a fuss because she didn't think she could win. You'd think that with these ballots. Uncounted Detroit ballots going to heavily favor Clinton but they calculated wasn't enough to to make a difference. Maybe maybe they didn't want to shine more of a light on the problems in Detroit because Detroit as many American cities are as as a city run by Democrats. The State Board of elections ends did an investigation and their conclusion is it was mass incompetence. They found no evidence of any effort to try to stuff ballot. In fact in Detroit at the end of the day I think the difference was about five hundred ballots that they couldn't reconcile and the former state elections director Chris. Thomas conducted an audit and they found that it was it was poor worker training. It was the ballot that machines themselves were ten years old. They led to frequent jams thereabouts. Misplaced but that there was no effort for to throw the election. This is this is the result of an old cities aging infrastructure poorly trained workers. Who Work you know? One day every four four years or a couple elections And and and just really poor practices rather than fraud no malfeasance but incompetence correct Ed. I'm wrong but it's race actually. That plays a pretty big role in attacks on election administration in Democratic areas. Like Broward County in Florida and in Detroit right. The fact is there's incompetence across the board but when you're talking about where the large numbers of votes are and where Democratic voters are there in the large cities and it's because this of this that people like trump focus on the incompetence of election administrators in places that have large minority populations often often run by people of color who are the election administrators and race just becomes a part of this conversation in often In ways from trump that seemed tinged with racism Broward County in two thousand. Eighteen was a very close race for the United States. Senate Senate between the incumbent Democrat Bill Nelson and the outgoing governor and Republican candidate. Rick Scott Brenda. Snipes was the election administrator in Broward our county and she had a history of problems and how she administered elections. She wasn't transparent at all. She didn't tell Rick Scott when they were sector. We got how many ballots were left to account. Trump goes on the attack against Brenda snipes. An African American woman. It was one of a number of attacks of African American women that trump had announced at the time. Here's president trump shouting over the blades of Marine One back in November Twenty Eighteen Broward County County. They have had a horrible history. And if you look at the person in this case a woman involved she has had a horrible history and all of a sudden they're finding votes out of nowhere and bricks. God who won by you know it was close but he won by a comfortable margin every couple of hours. It goes down a little bit. And then you see the people and they were involved with that broad of the the fake dossier the phony dossier not a and I guess I hear they were somehow involved. They'll work with the GPS fusion. People who have committed I mean you look at what they've done you you look at the dishonesty. Look look this bad. Things have gone on in Broward County really bad things. She's been to court. She's had a lot of the problems she's lost. I say this he easily won but every hour it seems to be going down. I think that people have to look at it very very cautiously obviously well. That was a pretty bizarre episode of chopper. Talk Right there There was no evidence that Brenda snipes ever tried to steal election. There was only evidence of incompetence not sure how. GPS Fusion worked. Its way in there. It's kind of a web of conspiracy theories Lead as far as the Ukraine Colin impeachment. But no evidence of rigging the vote vote just your good old fashioned incompetence but Democrats In a tough spot in terms of how they respond to such attacks because they don't want to call out it's Their own people for messing things up. Listen to Joe Kurth from Michigan's Bridge magazine again and you can hear that dynamic that we saw in Broward County also play out in Michigan. Obviously this is their base. It's largely minority. You don't want to accuse them of being incompetent and you want to respect their autonomy it. It opens the Democrats up to accusations of incompetence that you see of Republicans accusing Democrats of rigging elections. When a lot of times? uh-huh these are sort of really simple mistakes. But they can't have good explanations for why they occurred. It wasn't just a trade. A lot of the heavily. Urban counties had similar problems as Detroit. There is a genesee county which is Flint I believe Saginaw County had similar problems. This very pernicious a symmetry here when Democrats have problems with incompetence. They're accused of voter fraud. They're accused of stealing the election and Republicans. Look the other way when the incompetence this happening opening in Republican areas and so I think you know the the double standard gets applied once again. I think it's a real balancing act. I think in in urban areas. Obviously they're dealing with many problems in decades and decades of disinvestment that that lead to some voting irregularities on on wider scales. I will say though to that. It's it's not any different than what's happening on on smaller scales in rural places. It's just a matter volume but but but let's be clear in. This goes back to the fundamental point of your book that whether we're talking about incompetence in election administration in Democratic areas in Republican controlled areas and to be sure Georgia has had some very serious problems which we'll talk about in a later show in this series but the effect overwhelmingly is the same name which is it undermines confidence in the electoral process. And it's easier to believe a conspiracy theory than to believe. Incompetence is the the soul. 'cause the fact of matter is that when elections are administered badly when there are problems it can have a profound effect on people's trust. The Green Party is convinced that elections are stolen systematically in Detroit And I think on the other side the Conservatives do as well and I think that the vast merge middle the eighty five percent in the middle have a sort of a shoulder shrug of. That's just how things happen. Sometimes in Detroit. It's not a great way to run a democracy. Moxie I mean you want you want ultimate like utmost faith that your vote's going to count and unfortunately especially in Detroit in sometimes in Michigan. That's just he. He can't always be sure. That's the case. So here's the problem when things go wrong and places like Broward County Detroit in Georgia the news media and interested I did. Parties rarely differentiate between incompetence and deliberate abuse. Or that's a French comes later on down the line when the damage is already done. It took months for Michigan election officials to investigate. In the meantime what People Watch Fox News alert that there were more votes than voters in the city of Detroit. I don't I think that there's been any evidence of trying to throw elections. That have been you know that that are credible. But I think that it's it's hard not to let let your imagination wander if you're frequently having power outages in precincts during elections in. You're losing ballots. Why wouldn't you have conspiracy theory? Maybe this is a good corollary to your initial point. which is we only think about broken election systems in the week before elections actions? We only think about them again in the week after and so if six months later of finding comes out no harm no foul or no fell but harm arm. It's too late for anybody to care and conspiracy theories not only get fixed in our education but they have a pretty big megaphone in this current current White House the way in which election returns come in from urban areas absolutely amplifies some of the worst conspiracy mongering right sure so the largest the jurisdiction the longer takes to count the votes. The more people there that are voting with provisional ballots or might be maybe their new voters the longer takes to count the votes. What's these tend to be? In urban areas. These tend to be in areas that have more democratic voters. And that's why we see what professor Ned fully has called the big blue shift where votes started out being more Republican and as more votes are counted. You end up with A democratic surge. We saw this. You may remember in the two thousand. Eighteen gene election as California was counting millions of absentee ballots. We saw election after election in Orange County. California swing from Republicans in the lead to Democrats that that wasn't because there was any conspiracy of us just because that's how election administration goes and trump was saying. Let's just take the results as they aren't election day here. He wants to freeze time when he's in the lead But in fact We do see the shift. Not An affair is reason for it. But if you're inclined to believe those conspiracy theories you may indeed find that. There's something problematic about it. Okay so rick. Having focused laser focused on Michigan's problems and specifically maybe Detroit's problems. Is there some glimmer of hope here to be gleaned. Well you're not gonNA find it for me but you might find it from Jocelyn Benson the former election law professor and and Law School Dean Now she's a secretary of State of Michigan and I should pause for a second. Say We've been talking about secretaries of state What are they? They're the chief election officers officers of the state but they don't actually get to run the elections in each state because those elections are run on a county or even sub county level out but they do have some control over. How elections Iran on so Benson literally wrote the book on Secretaries of State and called secretaries of state guardians of the democratic process which I think is more aspirational racial than descriptive But she's now In charge I asked her about some of the concerns. Raised by Joel Kurth. And here's what she has to say in twenty any sixteen the heart of the errors pork or based Human error poll workers making errors in the way they left records of ballots after they were cast And the human errors were identified in the recount process The integrity of the election itself was not in question. I in fact it just underscored again in my view. The examples the types of examples of mistakes that human beings can make when they're running the election process so they're useful points of reference for US also as we train our election workers for future elections and part of the reason. Frankly why I've made recruiting and training porkers across the state One of my priorities for preparing for twenty twenty and across the country particularly in urban areas. We need to do more to recruit and train a talented workforce of election workers on election day to ensure they are prepared to follow the law and And protect the process of the vote are places like Michigan and Florida and Georgia have. They learned what they need to know. Oh and they they geared up and ready to do November twenty twenty right. Well I have more hope than do optimism. If you you asked election ministries in two thousand twelve with the biggest problem. They might face in two thousand sixteen would be. They might not have said Russian operatives trying to hack into our voter registration databases which. There's something that we know happened. Sometimes you're fighting the last war so now there's a lot of concern about cybersecurity but we've got a lot of places that are rolling out brand new voting machines funds being used for the first time. It's like premiering your new play straight to Broadway you know high risk there and so You know I'm not sure what the the future is going to hold. I know that there are a lot of good people with good intentions. Who are trying to make elections better but but not everyone and some people are trying to make things worse so in the book a collection meltdown? I conjured up. Kind of worst case. Scenario and the worst case scenario is Rather than those isolated power outages Joe Kurth talks about in Detroit. How `bout if there's a cyber attack from a foreign entity that brings down the power grid in the city of Detroit on election day and the potential for us not being able to run the election over we only have one election day for president What happens then? I raised the scenario with both drill Kurth and Josten fence and ask them what they thought would happen. If there were such an attack it'll be absolutely cast and I think it would hurt the You know people would not have one vote anymore and that specific example in terms of a power outage on election day we have generators in place and backup plans and of course paper ballots To enable us to actually keep proceeding if we are all in close communication with the fifteen hundred jurisdictions in this case the one jurisdiction in Detroit or or others that may be affected our preparation for things like that whether they be natural disasters or you know the acts of nefarious People people trying to attack our system really relies on us to be close to the ground on election day and prepared for all these potential scenarios just as we are for a power outage and then also so partnering with the Department of Homeland Security And and with other national entities like the information sharing and analysis center. I sack So so that we are in real time getting support and feedback if these things are happening in other places as well and and so. I feel that we're more prepared than ever and I. I say this not just permission but I think other states as well to deal with types of attacks you're referencing Because there's been so much more attention and proactive active preparation and planning in place that I think ever before and with fifteen hundred jurisdictions certainly leaves it open for for challenges and wrinkles but but I'm I'm bolstered emboldened by the fact that we've got so many people with is on this problem. Identifying potential solutions and our goal is to make sure all those people bler in place on election day for rapid response. Plan to be executed if anything does as you suggest that happen So what I take from Jocelyn Jocelyn Benson is actually a nice tidy summary of the thesis of your book which is that somebody who has the role of Secretary of state it has to say the aspirational thing has to say. It's fixed the system works. Get out there and vote and there's nothing to worry about whereas the journalists whole whole curse is pretty much saying you have reason to fear the doomsday scenario because it could really happen. And there's a weird way in which we're having two conversations conversations one about what is and one about what we can't say might be simply because we want people to get out there and vote but I took away from Secretary Benson and that she has limited control over her fifteen hundred jurisdictions. She's doing the best she can with what she has to work with and she's going to try and be as transparent as possible. Oh I think not. Only promoting confidence is important. But being honest with what's going on and I think that really when I look incompetent election administrators they always say breath. It's not the crime it's the cover up Lots of times when election officials are not telling you what's going on it's because they're covering up there malfeasance or their misfeasance and With someone like Secretary Benson. If she could control the entire election system of Michigan I would probably have more confidence than the fact that she is this general coordinator of an election being running fifteen hundred jurisdictions Chris. Dickson's so I asked Joe Kurth if things are potentially going to get better for twenty twenty. And here's what he said ultimately always comes down to just sort of like. Roll the dice in Michigan. It's really sad to say that but Sure as rain. There's there's GonNa be a problem in Detroit this crisis For six months after there's a crisis and then everybody forgets about it It's not a sexy thing to who invest in And it's something like sewers. You know you just expect them to work until they don't and you're not GONNA win elections. He's standing up and in talking about how you just hired you know ten times more. Volunteers or new. Optical scanners is not a sexy subject until bill until it all falls apart. I guess we are now simply hoping that. It doesn't rain in Detroit in November of twenty twenty and and also that the boxes and the bins and the papers are all in good order. Well Talia I don't know how religious you are but There's something called the election administrators ministers prayer. which is Lord? Let this election not be close and really I wrote that in my talk about that. In Two thousand twelve book the voting words and here things have not changed changed the best solution to a the best way to avoid an election tobacco for an election not to be close. Because when it's close your you're peering into the bins you're cleaning the gunk out of the machines. We didn't even talk about Palm Beach. County attempt to run a recount in two thousand eighteen. Where the vote counting machines that were recounting? The ballots ended up failing because an election worker thought the machines. We're going too fast and shoved a paper clip into the mechanism and caused the machine to explode. So that's what it's going to come down to you so you know like a sewer It stinks we've talked now about Votes oppression and the myth of vote fraud in our first episode in our second here. We've just finished talking About just incompetence and technology and the great broken -ness of you've electoral systems. What's coming up next? So we'RE GONNA TURN TO JERRY tricks. We're going to look at that contest. Election in North Carolina in two thousand only eighteen this congressional election with its absentee ballot problems. Russian interference in two thousand sixteen as well as the twenty seventeen Senate Senate race between Doug Jones and Roy Moore in Alabama. You remember. That was the race that came up. When Jeff sessions became attorney general and some dirty tricks done on in that race? That might surprise you and that is Iraq for this part two of our election. Meltdown series here on amicus from me and from Rick Casson. Thank you so much for listening in. If you want to get in touch our email is amicus at dot com or you can always find us on facebook facebook dot com slash amicus. Today's show was produced by Sarah Birmingham. Gabriel Roth is editorial director of sleep. PODCASTS and June Thomas is senior managing urging producer of sleep. PODCASTS late plus members. You have a bonus episode coming your way everyone else back with you in a week for part. Three of election Milton

Detroit Michigan Donald J trump Broward County Michigan Jocelyn Jocelyn Benson Florida Joe Kurth fraud Brenda snipes facebook Detroit Free Press president Senate Rick Incompetence America State Board of elections
462: A perspective that will give you superpowers

Earn Your Happy

12:12 min | 1 year ago

462: A perspective that will give you superpowers

"Face is putting your fear into action. Faith is acting. It's painful faith is changing your perspective. Welcome to earn your happy podcast. I'm I'm Laurie harder. Founder of the Bliss Project Three time fitness world champion fitness expert and cover model turned self love. Junkie Lifestyle Entrepreneur and author author. Each week will bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears. Connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want. And we anoint ourselves yourselves get ready to earn own and on apologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me here. We go welcome back to the earn. Your happy podcast. And it's time time for another quickey because there's always time to fit an inspiration and I love that you just quoted that with me maybe did maybe didn't anyway. I want to remind you that event love is coming up guys. There's only eleven spots left. There might be less than that when you hear this podcast and the price goes up December. Eighteenth so you must grab your spot now and this is a super intimate intimate event. Fifty people we are keeping it small so that you can become that speaker that confident leader and be able to you understand what it takes to have profitable events you guys for anybody who wants to have an event anyone who wants to become a better teacher leader facilitator podcast or whatever that looks looks like learn all about how you could turn your passion in to your business if you are nervous. This is exactly the place that you are supposed to be because it is going to give you the skills to manage that so back to the quickey J I WanNa talk about perspective and you know this word. The you know that perspective is your power but I really want to talk about. Are you using it. Are you actually understanding which means applying applying and using it in your life if we say that we know. But we're not using it. You're not actually understanding and you're not embodying so perspective. That is a beautiful thing that can turn something negative into something that is actually life changing and positive and the most most successful brilliant. Happy People that I know. Have the power to change anything anything. Negative into something positive they have perspective and it is their superpower and I can honestly say that I have been flexing working on using this muscle over and over and over and we just finished up Three Day event are foundations mastermind and it was the second group of Twenty Thousand Nineteen. We run our fast foundations mastermind twice a year and I love the second event out of each group. Because it's kind of like they're graduating class. It is is the event where people have come back into the room for a second time. They don't have as many nerves but they also have a new set of stories stories. You guys went. You know that when you joined something when you walk into an event or a room where you're super intimidated or you did something. That's way outside your comfort zone. And you know that it's GonNa make you either level level operator GonNa feel like you're going to crumble under pressure. Those are those moments where perspective is every thing. Perspective is everything and then the second time they walk in three months later for their second event they either feel a lot more confident or a new story has developed. Wow I really don't feel good enough. Wow I feel like you know. These people are moving at such a faster pace than me. Wow I didn't do the things that I said I was GONNA do now. That could be something. That's GonNa take someone like that down or or you could have the perspective of. Oh my goodness thank God. There's a second event because maybe I did not do the things that I wanted to do. Thank goodness there's a second event because this lack of confidence is showing up again. Thank goodness there's a second event because my God. My confidence is low and I need this tribe now more than ever thank goodness. There's a second event so that I can show up in a way that I wanted to in the first one and didn't so I'm using this as an example because we we were talking about it a woman who's in that particular mastermind Jocelyn Freeman was like you have to talk about perspective perspective. Because I talked about it in the room and how powerful it is because I will share that she was feeling you know the first event. She came As far as I know she loved it. They were learning a lot. They were having breakthroughs and the second time that she came. She found that the event like the room when she shows up in certain rooms. Like this where it's a lot of people level up leveling Like minded people That she was getting triggered and she was getting triggered in a way that she had said that she she was questioning herself. She didn't feel like she fit in as much. She didn't feel like one of the cool kids and she was really wondering about her worth. And you know all all of these different things and it's crazy because looking at her and her business and just who she is. I would never have ever guessed that she was ever dealing with anything like that. But but you guys we should all know. We're all humans I walk into those rooms and I'm completely triggered and feeling like maybe I'm not enough. Maybe I'm not providing enough value but that's exactly where I need to go because my perspective says no if you're feeling this way this is where the work begins so you guys can read all the books we can do all the things we can join all the programs grams but until you show up when it's hard until you flip your perspective. That doesn't feel good. That's the actual work. That's go time that is gain gene day. That is the Super Bowl. Like you can talk all you want. You can read all you want. You can be listening to this podcast all that you want. But until you're in a moment omen of being really down of questioning yourself of doubt of being in a situation where you are about to not go do something and pull yourself out of the game and sabotage yourself again by not showing up in the room or going to the thing. We're going to that lunch or going to that party. You're taking yourself out of the game because of your perspective and if you flip it and say oh that tough stuff is game day. That's where I find out what I made of and create what I made of not even find in doubt you guys. That's where you create what you're made of. That's how you create the diamond. Put yourself under pressure show up in state in the room even when it feels like shit even when you feel like you don't belong there even when someone says something rude to you that is game day. That's the opportunity. That is the work right there. That's where you get to stop talking and start becoming so flipping your perspective and Jocelyn headset on the last day she was like you know it's so so crazy because it's just that opportunity like to flip my perspective and know that these are the rooms that you have to be in and have something completely wildly change your perspective and and it's really funny because we do this thing where we vote for someone who's shown up and given a lot in the room and really been someone who's changed A lot of things for people people and who's added a lot of value and we do a vote in the group and John just so happen to be one of the top three who was voted on for being appreciated being seen and valued. So what a perspective flip bright. She was just moments before in the bathroom talking about how triggered she was feeling that she didn't feel like she fit in or was a cool cool kid and then gets voted on by fifty peers. That she was one who was you know really stood out as adding value and that people were grateful for talk about a perspective flip. But sometimes we don't get sometimes. We don't get that validation like Jocelyn was able to get in that in that room but you have to validate yourself and I know that she would have done that. Anyway so Johnson thank you for not only inspiring this podcast but for really I know helping a lot of people and for what you would've done anyway. Which is flipping your perspective which your genius at so you guys wear is something that you can flip your perspective? Maybe you're headed to the gym right now and you're like shit. I hate the Jim. Like what am I ever going to like it. And you're like Oh my perspective is thank God I show up and I do something hard and yeah this may not be easy but this is where I build up muscle Seoul for maybe my future business or when relationships are challenging like I show up I go through and I take care of myself. This is that time to take care of myself. Improved moved to myself that I can just keep showing up for the challenging thing that is going to make me better so sometimes we look at it like you know especially the gym. Oh I don't see the result of this doesn't change my body. Whatever it's not worth it you guys the gym the hard stuff? The challenges the test of your patience sitting in traffic You know the annoying phone phone call from an in-law from your mom from a sister from a brother from a friend someone being rude that route email. That's the stuff where you be. Calm Tom a better version of you. Stop Shying away from it runs straight toward it. Does it feel good. Hell no does it make you better. Hell Hell yes without it. You don't get to become a better version of yourself without it. You don't get to actually practice that faith that you say that you have faith is action right. Faith is fear in action. Face is putting your fear into action. Faith is acting when it's painful info. Faith is changing your perspective. Here is I have so much love for you. It's actually completely frigging wild. How much I love all of you guys and getting to see who I'm talking to? It's even better when I get to meet all of you who I get to chat with all the time as they move into two thousand twenty. My gratitude list has All my listeners at the top I feel very connected to you I feel like you actually give me so much life and things nice to look forward to so thank you for letting me live in my purpose. Something that you can do. If you love this podcast is just share on your stories. Go subscribe go rate eight. Go Review that would really mean the world to me. I have some really big goals around this podcast so that I can make it better make it a huge focus of twenty twenty Which means I get to put more time into content? Which means you get more juicy rich content out of this podcast so rate review share with a friend text to a friend that means the world go do it right now? I would appreciate it more than I could possibly tell you. I love you guys so much until next time. Earn your happy by everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn. Your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it. That would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful also. Please leave us a review. If you feel so moved by going to I tunes and leaving us an honest thought honest comment. Tell us what you think. Tell us what you I want to hear. More of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people until then don't forget to earn your happy. Be Thanksgiving guys bye bye.

Faith Jocelyn Freeman Founder Laurie Bliss Project Seoul twenty twenty Johnson Tom John three months one second Three Day
When Marketing is Led by the Customer: The Economics of the SaaS Business

OC Talk Radio

21:59 min | 1 year ago

When Marketing is Led by the Customer: The Economics of the SaaS Business

"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life few onto live CD medic target your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil get get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease welcome. Everybody's time once again to grab your board. Maybe snowboard this time of year and ride that sales pipeline highflying with our gold medal winner Mannheim's. We're GONNA get to customer success and advocacy. We've got a lot to talk about today. Thank you so much everyone for joining us on another episode of sales pipeline radio. We we are here every week. At Eleven thirty Pacific two thirty eastern. We're live on the lead a funnel media radio network and we are featuring every week experts in B. Two B. Sales the marketing today is no different. We have Jocelyn Brown. She is the VP of Customer Success Al Acadia. She is from Canadia really really excited to have her join us today. talk a lot more about customer success in Customer Advocacy Jocelyn. Thanks again for joining US my pleasure man. If you listen to the show in the past you know that we are is guilty not as a lot of marketers and that we spend the majority of our time talking about acquisition we tend the majority of our time talking about getting customers on board and when you look at the budgets and the resources a lot of beating me marketing marketing groups I think that's reflected there as well. You've got all these people and budgets and marketing technology do acquisition and then when it comes to sort of keeping customers oftentimes it's it's a toll free number an and occasional newsletter and I don't know if you saw just this morning a friend of both of ours politics Shema who's the CEO of nudge. You put something up on Lincoln talking about customer success than in now that previously obviously it might have been more reactive. It was more important service now. It's really a a revenue driver for the business to drive advocacy basset of the brand expansion so maybe used to be kind of a maybe after thought. Maybe something that was thought of as more reactive administrative and tactical is now very much a strategic part of the business so would love to have you kind of talk about your perspective there and then what you guys are doing a without allocating as well yeah. Absolutely I think probably the advent of subscription economy really of SAS is what has is put just such a spotlight on retention on investment in your customers and stop business model really has given a seat at the table to those folks that actually work with the customers Dan Day out because we sort of have to earn their business every day. Either barrier to leave is very low and we need to make sure that they are are constantly feeling like they're getting value in feeling valued in that sort of business relationship. I've been doing it for ten. Plus years probably early longer than that if I were to really admit it and really for me being with the customers where it's at it is really the center of the company from results from revenue from mm-hmm from sort of anything I actually work with customers Po sale but I also owned a fairly large number in that I am responsible for all the renewal revenue and also so oliver expansion revenue which accounts for a very significant part of our growth so to say it's just kind of an afterthought or a piece is a gross misunderstanding of the economics of Saas Business so certainly allocated the the customer is the center really bevery thing and you know we built our product for that we organize denies our journey for that. Our customers really lead our marketing they are best kind of voice in the market. peer to peer references are kind of valuable due to our prospects so putting the time and effort and attention into our customers to make sure that they are receiving value means that they're going to talk about it. They're gonNA explain it in the market. They're going to continue to work with US and advocate for our business so I think those that haven't figured that out yet are behind. I wholeheartedly agree and let's let's talk about how that relates to what we talk a lot about here even on the acquisition side which is the buying journey and I think oftentimes we think of the buying journey too often his ending when someone one buys like that may be the middle may be the end of the sales process but it's really the middle of what I'd call the Revenue Bowtie you know the you may have gotten someone to buy but that's when things really begin as someone who's spent quite a bit of time and I want to get back and talk about the Likud as well. How do you as a customer success professional think about the buying journey? It's way beyond the on the deal right. Absolutely I think also just in the nature of how people by now because it's a lot easier to try things because it's a lot easier you're to sort of start small and grow from there you also are seeing that people are really trying and then expanding so that land and expand strategy that we were successful with that Alachua and is a very big piece of our strategy at allocated is let's get people in in experiencing our product experiencing our team solving their problem. Maybe the smaller scale and then help them kind of map out how to get got to a fully executed strategy fully executed and that there's there's really no downside to US bringing in customer at a sort of smaller scale L. because we know first of all that our technology is going to help them. We know that our team understand what's going on has done it many many times before and is going to provide provide them the right kind of guidance and we know we let them kind of set the terms of how they grow that it's going to be the right solution and the right fit. We're not going to kind of have to back back into it based on a sale cycle that maybe not everybody knew enough to run really well so for us. There's no fear of people coming in and sort of trying. Take a bit first because history tells us that a great place for us to start and grow and we've had great success there and then it makes the whole process a loophole less the friction in the process for the customer and a lot easier. They don't have to fix everything all at once. We don't have to do a big bang. Release can really kind of move them along and that's a little change in the buying in process. That's a little change in technology. Were Immigrations and things like that are easier but that's also just our philosophy. We want you to get a feel for technology to feel some relief of us being able to help solve that problem and then experience our team because our team really is so invested in making sure that you are successful that you're going to partner with us. It's GonNa feel like a real partnership talking today on sales pipeline radio with Jocelyn Brown. She's the vice president of Customer Success at allocated I mean this is a company that clearly is spot in on doing customer success right I think by by having your position there by having the resources and the focus there I think it is part of the culture as a part of the priorities and I think that was clear to me as well when I think I met you for the first time back when you were at Alachua which is eventually bought by Oracle and the local experience conferences. There aren't very many conference. Is I go to where you see more hugs handshakes you know when you see people that hadn't even met each other before but because of the relationship they built because of the bond that exists between customers and not just the company but the people at the company that isn't an incredible comparative advantage talk about how customer success and customer advocacy was really at the heart of the culture of Alachua and how that's really sort of developed the programs you built from that point forward. I mean there's no question that part of my goal is to recreate some of what was so great at Alachua and I've been very fortunate and then there are a lot of people here that are willing to come along that ride with me. There are so many good examples of what we did there but I think the primary one was that everybody believed that the customer was at the center of what we were doing. There was sort of a concept. The customer was in the room all the time. All of our meeting rooms were named after customers. everyone in the company had some portion of their compensation tied to a customer success type of metric. It really was pervasive. We talked our marketing was led by the voice of our customers. We told stories all the time they were always there. They were ever present and I think that just meant that we were always thinking about them and we were very invested in not just the companies we're helping but the individual people and relationships that were driving that another part of the customer evangelism and Customer Experience Program at Alachua that I I would certainly part of it as well as a as a l quick customer and partner was top line your customer success staff extended into your customers. You had customers that were essentially ambassadors and support staff in many cases for each other talk a little bit about where top leaders came from or the why that was such a key part of the success for you the investment or the choice to really put that kind of investment in their came out of a project called ice was the ideal customer experience where people from sort of all of the postals Louisville's functions got together and try to figure out where all the ways that we can make this experience even better for our customers where we can make it easy to do business with us where we can celebrate great success where we can share stories where we can help people grow together and it was just clear that we needed to get as much of our expertise not just from the staff but from the customers that had grown up with us through got through transformation in marketing into marketing automation out there as we could put and really who's also an extension of various successfully been running a small customer events throughout our region mostly in the US but even in Europe where where we get customers together and we almost didn't have to present anything they wanted to talk to each other and we just saw this amazing networking effect and this incredible edible desire for everybody to help everybody else so. We really felt like we were building something. It was a pretty transformative time in the B. Two B. Marketing space than everybody was on that same mission and everybody wanted to help everybody else so top learners really was our best way to kind of amplify that and as you we know it really did exactly that where our customers became our best educators are best marketers and really the best source for expertise top liners just I just said this would be was basically a discussion board. It was a it was a discussion board with common threads where you could attach documents and I mean a lot of companies have those does but I think hopefully what you've heard from Jocelyn so far is there was something very special about the culture there was something about the priorities of the organization the people that are leading the people that founded it and you know that that really drove what happened with customers and I think you know you can set up message boards. You can start newsletters but unless you have that culture. It's not going to go where you want it to go. We're going to have to take a quick break here. Pay Some bills. We'll be back in a couple minutes with more with Jocelyn Brown vice president of customer success and allocated. You're talking a lot more about advocacy a little more about the old eloquent days and what she she sees moving forward in terms of driving more revenue responsible customer programs you're listening sales pipeline radio in a world where the speed of innovation and change and be to be marketing has never been greater. The only thing bigger is the need for clarity for a blueprint for guide to what's really working king and how about a way to apply specifically today to increase sales pipeline growth velocity and most of all conversion it. That's what you'll find in the modern marketers field guide and mazing league can download it for free hines marketing dot com just like it sounds H. E. Z. The M. A. R. K. E. I. N. G. IT encompasses the entire sales and marketing cycle but in quick bursts with lots of specific actionable ideas strategies tactics you can put to work right away like today the low table of contents helps them narrow in and tackle cla problem and it's something you can come back to over and over again as a reference guide why not download your free copy of the modern marketers field guide. It's free hines marketing dot com just like it sounds. Hei Z. Marketing Dot Com all right back to our program with Matt. Hi thank you so much everyone for joining. If you like what you're hearing today make sure you join us every week coming up in the next couple of weeks and next week on sales pipeline radio we have Joe Hyland. He's the CMO of on twenty four. We're going to talk talk about secrets of CMO's secret successes behinds mobis revenue leaders joey started a podcast called confessions of CMO. We talked a little about that and the week after our first episode in March. I'm super excited. We have Jill Conrad. She is one of my favorite people in the B. Two B. Sales world. She's written a number of books including snap selling and just huge hugely hugely influential to me into others in B. Two B. Sales so excited to have her join. The program is well today. We still have a little more time with Jocelyn Brown. She's the VP of customer MMA success at Ala Katya Jocelyn from your journey from eloquent Oracle to where you are today having that sort of culture and focus on customer success is great but I think continuing to provide fight ideas and insights to your customers oftentimes and I think we've seen this data from Gartner and CB in others. It's not just providing phone number to call. It's not adding more features. It's really helping helping your customers become smarter giving them new ideas and insights that is a huge competitive differentiator so the content or seeing online and then what you're providing to customers is a huge part of your job as well absolutely and I think to bring it to sort of brass tacks as much as we talked about a lot of softer stuff in the culture of Alachua that really drove such an amazing community for us. I mean that resulted in in real impact in real results and not came with investment doesn't happen by accident and and there is a real outcome to that so customer success should not be mistaken for dialing for smiles. It's absolutely not that when you understand stand a customer's business with when you have a great relationship and great empathy for what they're trying to accomplish and you're really trying to help them solve that problem. You will make that company company successful and they will grow by more and you will make that individual successful and they will remember that and they will take you everywhere they go and not amplifying effect of advocacy advocacy comes from the real work of listening understanding and providing solutions for your customers that includes clued your software but also in advice gyns in connections in helping them talk to peers that are struggling with the same things I would want anybody to mistake customer success just for service or something saw it has a true and very real business benefit absolutely a lot of people listening. Probably you're in that that can't we talked about the beginning ending of the of the episode around just not really having people not having resources and so if I'm if I'm a VP mark listening saying yeah this makes sense. We need to be doing this but I don't have Jocelyn on my team yet I don't have you know we have this in my budget. What are some things people can do to build the foundation for a more impactful customer success effort effort yeah absolutely the the good news is it's probably an extension of some of the stuff you already do that? Idea of journey mapping notes talked about a lot in the the marketing. It's extending that all the way through the customer life cycle and understanding the touch points the contents the tools the other other types of things the triggers all the way through that they're going to help the customer better going to provide opportunity for your company and sort of seeing where your gaps are and where you might be able to get the biggest bang for your buck in terms of closing that gap understanding the journey that your customer is going through and using your tool is just as important as understanding the journey Ernie that they go through in researching understanding and making a buying decision but a lot of the same tools apply a lot of the same theory applies a lot of the same work can be done for me. It's always going to involve a team. I think that in certainly be nothing really can replace that relationship and that empathy and somebody really feeling like you care what happens to them in the context of how you're working with them. I had the version of a customer who I've realized I worked with for eleven years. Come visit us in our headquarters and just before she got up to tell her story she returned to me and said having a company really care about you. Matters maters a lot and she's a buyer. She's the person making that decision and not matters to her so I think sometimes people forget the human equation that there's real you work in building relationships and those relationships carry an inherent value for the customer and for the company. That's sort of working now. There's no doubt about that. There aren't enough people that I think prioritize that I think too often we look at the spreadsheet and we managed through you know the numbers we wanna hit we look at customers is buildings but buildings don't actually sign checks the people inside the buildings do and there's something about having a good relationship with someone in showing and proving that you care that not only generates loyalty but gives gives you a little bit of the benefit of the doubt you know you've got you know things are going to break you know things are going to not work the way they want. You want them to so you know I think in the right environment you know in in in in most environments comments you get pro customers that are angry and yell and scream and get upset in an environment where you actually make this part of the culture where you make you make a care they call and wonder what they can do to help you there rooting for you who took to do it well before we have to wrap up here in a couple of minutes. You've been doing this for a while. I think there's a lot of people that I know that you've worked with that. We've talked about in the past that you've learned from who for people people that want to learn more about how to do this right who are some of the people that have been influential for you people in terms of Customer Care Customer Advocacy that you'd recommend people go and read I take just an incredible amount of learning from my days at Alachua and I continue to work with those people and talk to them. So you mentioned Politici- Ema he certainly were right on customer success in the power relationships. Heather Fe is WHO's at look book is probably one of the most talented advocacy leaders that I've really ever met. I'm against that customer so I spent a lot of time reading their content and have had a chance to meet Alison pickens. I think she writes some really great stuff. It's really practical stuff. Maybe about the operational organizational things that maybe people are kind of craving. You've got you've actually got a plethora of people talking about it ran right now what I would suggest is fine the meet up in your local city and go and talk to a bunch of people it's really in that networking effect in not community that I get at my best ideas and I get my greatest value because as we are kind of building on this kind of a profession you don't know who's GonNa have your next best idea and and I think people are bringing experience from lots of other functions that is just accelerating the growth of customer success just making us better so find your friends. I love to hear hear from people. I'm very happy to talk to them. So you can find me on Lincoln my twitter handle is Josh Brown. JC Brown. I'm happy to interact on on this stuff because that's what's fun for me appreciate you doing that and I think you know your coach. Share in your answers reinforce everything I know about you just being a very genuine very customer centric person very very open to sharing ideas is and and your experience with other appreciate that very much I would echo the fine friends meet friends stay connected with friends that also have similar roles not necessarily in your industry not necessarily what your same the type of customer I think sometimes if you get into other industries other customer situations you might discover something that you hadn't thought about in your four walls that someone else is doing because of what feels natural them that might be truly innovative new in your industry that gives you another edge so definitely important to continue to be lifetime lifelong learners. We'll speak in Paula lifelong learners. We're going to have to wrap things up here. You're on another episode of Sales Piper. If you like what you hear today and if you want to share this episode with other people on your team you can do a number of different ways you can go and a couple of days to sales pipeline radio radio DOT com we will have this entire episode on demand and you can share that with your fear your friends peers and colleagues all episode past present and Future of Hill Pipeline Radio Radio on sales pipeline radio DOT COM don't miss another episode subscribe to the series up on itunes store Google play and we'll have a highlight of this session in on hines marketing dot com in just a few days as well with links to the Al Acadia content page with links to the upcoming workshop and then we'll put a link to Joscelyn's twitter account account as well so thanks very much Johnson joining us today got a great couple of weeks of episodes coming up as usual. Thank you very much for joining us on behalf of Migrate Producer Paul this is Matt Heinz. CNN Week on sales pipeline radio once again you've been riding the sales pipeline with Matt Hines hines marketing right here in the funnel radio network forever Listener Hi. It's Jamie progressive's number one number number two employee leave a message at the Hey Jamie. It's me Jamie this. Is Your daily Pep Talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your acapella group mad harmony but but you will bounce back I mean you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk now. Get out there hit that high note and take mad ED harmony all the way to nationals this year sorry it was pitchy Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by State Law. It's cutting into your exercise time and it's stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's

Alachua Jocelyn Brown customer advocacy VP of Customer Success Al Acad Customer Care Customer Advocac Katya Jocelyn vice president of Customer Suc US gold medal CBS Oracle partner Lincoln cure Likud Jamie progressive Mannheim FDA Paula Saas Business
How Four Teens Fought to Change Period Law

Feeling My Flo

11:50 min | 8 months ago

How Four Teens Fought to Change Period Law

"This is feeling my flow. Podcast where we see ministration as an event that happens to all types of bodies I'm COMMUNICA. Johnny opponents are she and her. We've talked period activists on a few episodes before to recap an activist is someone who works to change and rules in their school city state even the whole country on this episode talking to fourteen activists in Colorado who got together to make an important change in their schools and then they fought to change the law in their state our producer. Mia Warrant spoke to them in Denver. Colorado my name is Jocelyn Got Fred. I'm seventeen and my pronouns. She her. I'm Julia drew. I'm eighteen and my Brennan's are she her as well. I Milo s lar- I'm seventeen Emma pronouns. Are She her? I'm Piper AIKOFF. I am eighteen and my pronouns. Are She her? When Julia and Jocelyn with juniors in high school they started a new club. Here's Julia I think. The goal overall was just to create a space within our school where people could talk about the problems they were experiencing and like have a community of people who support them. They named it. The Intersectional Feminist Club. A feminist is someone who believes in the equality of all people and intersectional feminist as someone who thinks about a lot of different things like race class or nationality. And how they affect the way folks moved through the world back. When Julian Jocelyn formed the club. They didn't know of students would even show up. Our first meeting was kind of rough honestly. Legendarily dropped an entire thing of guacamole on the floor. That's what started it was. It was a pretty good turnout from the beginning and like it sort of showed that there was an interest in those in that people did care about it. Maya join the club about a month. After it started. I remember first meeting. I walked in and we were all like making bracelets for fundraiser. And just from the STAR. It was just like a super like chill environment where you could talk about whatever issues you wanted to. Maya and Piper have been best friends since the fourth grade Piper joined later on when the club decided to tackle a new and challenging project. It all started. When members of the club started reflecting on what a pain it was to get your period unexpectedly at school. You frantically run around asking all your friends if they have one. What we didn't know was They did carry them in the nurse's office before but it's honestly another thing. That has a lot of stigma around it. Because at the nurse's office you have to put down your name right. How many you're taking. Even the nurse's office had period products. Not Many students knew that. So the club wondered. What would it look like if the school bathrooms stocked products? All the time for free providing free medical products in schools has been debated for years but only recently that cities and states has started passing laws to provide products for Free New Hampshire California and Illinois have laws that required schools to offer free mental products but in Colorado. Many schools don't even provide them in bathroom vending machines so in the spring of Nineteen. The club came up with the idea of installing machines in their school bathrooms to give free products any student who needed them but the school administration wasn't really on board when they pitched it they basically said. Kinda just came up with a lot of different excuses. They said there was problems with plumbing. Which really doesn't make sense because like having more access to period products doesn't change the amount that people are using or flushing down the toilets. They said that there would be problems with fundraising and so that's when we ended up fundraising our own money and then they thought that people would be like throwing them everywhere. And I don't know there's just a lot of every excuse debunked every weird theory that they had one school push back against their idea. The clubs stepped up efforts. They decided to raise funds than buy and install the machines themselves without permission from their school Piper was the treasurer in charge of fundraising over the summer. Twenty nineteen. The club raised thirteen hundred dollars for the machines and products. Maya was in charge of planning. I had done research. Because the machines had to be approved by district to be like in school And then I had to go through the price in like getting the money like officially into our school cal than finding the products. And then I can't order through the vendor so then I had to like get somebody else to order so just like this whole complicated thing my figure it out how many machines the club could afford with the money they raised and the prices of each machine down to the sent. Jocelyn was in charge of communications learning out a perfectly construct. An email everything. You need been like big thing for me before this. I probably could barely write an email now pro. It took a huge amount of organizing and planning in the summer. Twenty nineteen they celebrated in style. Did a little ribbon cutting learned how to stock the machines and we were so excited. We're just taking a bunch of photos and going around to the bathrooms. It was really cool. This was over winter break so this was before like all the kids had come back to school pristine and beautiful in all. The activists of the Intersectional Feminist Club worked for a year to get those machines installed. Here's Jocelyn or is just so cool to like this thing we've been talking about for so long and then it's like finally in the school. The physical boxes are in the wall. Like they're going to be there for a long time no matter what happens when we leave like. I don't know it's just call that we did that. In our school club members now restock. The machines with pads and Tampons and their period activism inspired them to think bigger. Here's Julia I headed the Legislative Action Committee and we were basically just contacting politicians and representatives asking them to support a piece of legislation for our club. That's right. The club. Wanted to bring free metro products to other schools in Colorado. Basically to do what they'd already done but on a bigger scale and that required writing a bill. A bill is a draft of a law. A rule that we all have to follow. An activist often participate in drafting them. These savvy student activists got a little help from a pro. Hello my name is Brian. To tone. I'm state representative in House District. Twenty seven and my opponents are she her hers. Brianna tone represents the same district that Arvada West high school calls home truths elected in two thousand eighteen. The same year that a record number of women ran for office across the United States that year at thirty six new women candidates won seats in the House of Representatives and she was one of them when the club reached out representative to tone went to their school to meet with them. We all sat in the Teachers Lounge. And I said you know will tell me. Tell me what you WanNa do what? What's what's his bill idea. You have. And they had lots of information they done some research and some facts and figures about it and try to make a compelling argument that it was a good idea and I said to them. I like the idea but I'm not gonNA run the bill unless you run the bill with me because this is your idea and I want you to own this idea and I want to help you develop it and get this idea out to the club. Got To work kind like a telephone system like Briana would ask us what we want it in. She would take it to her bill drafter in he would do his best You Know Kinda. See Our vision. And then she would bring it back to us. We'd be like Oh we want to change this. This and this ultimately their work turned into Colorado Bill. One one three one introduce on the State House floor in January. Here's a quick rundown. The bill proposes that groups and organizations donate money to schools in Colorado with the highest reduced. Lunch populations that involves often use to determine which schools have large numbers of low income students and other words. The bill is trying to encourage people in Colorado to help men traders who can't afford period products. If the bill becomes law the Colorado state government will reward schools that offer free measure hygiene products students representative tone at our producer. Mia that the bill would solve all the problems. This is a complete answer it. It's just a start of solving the problem. It's a way to get. The conversation started in. The conversation has been kind of ignored and overlooked and people find it difficult to talk about. I was trying to get some other legislators to run the bill with me and they said that they would have a hard time talking about tampons in front of the House. And that's part of the problem is that they don't want to even talk about it but the problem isn't GonNa go away unless we talk about it. In February six it pass in the education committee. The vote was eight to five. We record this interview. There were still a few steps left before the bill could become law but when the coronavirus. Colorado the governor's slash the state budget all bills over considered non essential were killed Julia. Jocelyn Maya and Piper were really bummed out about this but there were still happy to start a conversation about periods in their local government and they convinced the two largest Colorado School districts to install products in all their schools. The activists say they've learned a lot from representative to tone. She's smart but she doesn't ever make us feel like we don't know we're talking about like I always feel so heard by her everything we say like it's like a real conversation not with someone who's in power over us but with someone who wants to give us power you know. Julia and Joscelyn's Day. They learned a lot about themselves to. I've learned to advocate for myself and my beliefs through this. I don't think I'm a very like person all settle for things a lot but I've learned not to do that as much into like really stand my ground are I'd say for me. It's just so rewarding to see people like get to know each other and like actually have like a community like from the beginning of our club to now like the people in our club com every week and they know each other and it's people who wouldn't usually talk to each other my as considering going into politics one day. This is something that I wanna do one day and it's something that like I did on purpose. I kinda just found myself in this project and I was like. Oh my gosh like I'm learning all these things that I can take into the next like years of my life feeling my flow. We love stories like this one young people getting involved in what matters to them and making a difference feeling my flow wants to help you start important conversations at critical moments. When you're organizing for change in your community you can read more about Colorado House. Bill number one three one on our website. We posted a link to bear feeling. My flow was production of Lindsay Williams and co where it's inform entertain and empower. Ask Your parents or an adult if you can visit us at feeling my flow that's F. L. O. Dot Com or connect with us on social media at flow pod. That's Elo underscore peo- on twitter and instagram. This episode was produced by MIA Warren producer. It was mixed by Cogency Shiro. Our San Engineer is Cedrick Wilson. Our system producer Emma Forbes. I'm Camilo Kashani. Support for tracks comes from the corporation for public broadcasting. This is tracks from P. R. X.

Colorado Julian Jocelyn Julia I representative producer Intersectional Feminist Club Jocelyn Maya Piper AIKOFF Emma Forbes Mia Warrant Denver Colorado House Johnny Brennan Arvada West high school Colorado School Lindsay Williams Brianna tone Cogency Shiro