20 Episode results for "Jin"

Correct Opinions with Trey Kennedy - Official Trailer

Correct Opinions with Trey Kennedy

00:25 sec | 1 year ago

Correct Opinions with Trey Kennedy - Official Trailer

"Hey y'all trinity here. Letting you know you need to subscribe to my podcast correct opinions the first and only podcast show every opinion is correct in my opinion. I talk all all things are crazy. Social Media Life relevant topics and white your sisters Jin reveal only reveals. She's annoyed so tune in and hear my takes all the extra things happening in our society. Today subscribed described correct opinions on apple podcast of your favorite podcasting up.

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OK T.I.s Gynecologist (Feat. MC Jin, BET)

Asian, Not Asian

57:08 min | 11 months ago

OK T.I.s Gynecologist (Feat. MC Jin, BET)

"What's good he knows? This is from the Asian Asian. PODCAST wants to make a quick announcement before we started the PA. The final hack city comedy show of the year is going to be on December eleventh. APM At canal market to sixty seven canal street tickets are available event righteous. Google Haxhi comedy event Bri or check out the link on her instagram page at Asia. Not Asian pod. Hope to see you there by the Asian avengers so so so so far. There's five Asian guys together. They do. I think everyone maybe you can look me up. I don't care opium. Hey Hey what's up. Everybody will come to Asian nineties. podcast the PODCAST. Asian guys from Asia. Talk about American issues. No Americans care about. I'm your host an ankle network listening party ready and Canal Street radio. Check out those guys on Instagram at listening party presents Canal Street market. Also if you're listening to this on your phones right now please take a screen shot and post it on instagram stories tag at Asia Not Asian pod and I had a little q chip in there. You know we have. You have not been doing that in a while. Angels my nose. We mean Asian Not Asian listeners. uh-huh not about sex so please do that. And if you're not Jews listener apple podcast listener. Obviously leave a review. We're almost we're about five hundred right now. I Love I told you I tell people all the time am I. When I'm sad too? I read the reviews and and pick me up. You guys really really give us energy so please know that your words don't go unnoticed noticed. Yeah what are we talking about today. Mike so yes last night today Saturday last night when I did a road gig wrote how how we used to have a segment on a dog. That was just me now. You've joined the ranks so I guess you could call. I guess it's a road gate. Shy Road Gig by took the train and it was in Pleasantville and it was it was cool New York New York New York. It was great comedian in her. Name's Louis Michel up there at Lucy's Lucy's laugh lounge out and it was cool. I did find it was it was fine But I did find his mom cried. No I did my thing which which is also but I was there and I was like okay. I am a millennial ish you know Asian do your who is into sneakers and shit. Yeah the people in Pleasantville or not that they are very nice people But like I say. The median age in that in that crowd was probably like late forties early late forties. I would say there was. There was like younger couples but there is also like older people there who are just like you know chicken wings. They were there. They were there for comedy because it was like set up like that comedy. What was going on but I was just like how? How My? How do I relate to these people in any way and I got I got them? I have some marriage My Wife You know like I got him with that and I was seeing there and I was like trying to like you know talking to them and stuff and after I did my demo thing and and after the tears dried up man I was on the train back in like it takes forever to get back on the train. I was just thinking you know this is about the what the road is. All about right you go on the road so you can get better in whatever way you can because you put into putting these arduous situations and I remember Ali Wong recently said you'll you become a good become a great stand up when you go on the road. Yeah and it just made me think about the road right like just like the Like how I've been doing this for five years and I've got a long way go. Yeah you know which is fine. That's all it was all about but it just made me think about how much more I had to do. In how much more just just as far as jokes. I need to right. Yeah hines a jokes. I need to write in. You know what I'm saying. You ever think about that like I got these jokes. I got some jokes. For New Yorkers that will like New York will die and I've got some jokes like you know young people and I got some jokes for Asian people and I got a couple of jokes for kind of everybody. Yeah but I I feel I need even. I'm always thinking like I need to make all kinds of different people laugh. Yeah I think that's something. I definitely thought about two years ago when I did a similar gig League for old couples and I was just thinking like I need simpler jokes. Not hacky jokes simpler like and the best jokes are simple accessible setup INFO interesting angle. You know so it could just be about like my girlfriend did this. That's a very universal topic. We're like I tripped yesterday on the sidewalk. Or whatever whatever you know like. I can't always be a joke about him like I can't. I can't do that. Had the thing but but I think it's both I think that if you try to you know Mike. If if you start from this day on out you start writing jokes for fifty white couples who live in suburban Suburbia New York. You're going to be a complete different comedian right. I think it's important to keep in mind that your brand and your voice like if you had a Netflix special. Do you want those guys there. If the answer is no then also take that into consideration. Like I think it's cool to have like Universal Jones Shit like that but I think my Joseph he's fucking specific and I think I've mentioned earlier like some like an apartment. Angela would not give a fuck if she bombed Pleasantville New York. Because that's not her right right right right right so you can kind of look at it like that but yeah I think in general. It's good to like you can make a complicated implicated topics simple and that is the job of the comedian joke about sneakers or whatever it is that you're talking about like joke about like I don't trust Korean people you know you're around like that totally worked. Also don't trust green people just so happens that so I think you're totally right and it just again made me think really was like on the train ride back took so long to get back and I was like man the road you know being and like the journey you know all that stuff and that's why I'm excited to have the guests that we have on this assess this dude been on a journey and in some ways our journeys have crossed and other ways. Yeah Oh yeah you're right you're right. Have you talked so oh I'm really excited about this. Yesterday's rapper songwriter. Actor comedian. Jack Wall Tracy's released numerous studio albums and appeared in such movies. Such as too fast to everyone everyone honestly and was in season one crazy popular rap of China He's back in New York. I guess he's always been in New York but he's back now physically after spending some time away Helped me welcome you. I never thought that I'd get to say this rightfully and with confidence as I was about to say shut out all the angels Newell's out. Yeah one point I was like you know. What will I ever get to save? This feel you know a sense of cringe cringe. I kind of said that with a lot of confidence. So yes shut out all the Asian Asian listeners. Mike you got nicknames or your fans well I had and they varied I guess one that has crossed my mind that I haven't actually put into effect yet. I want to kind of call people. That support court me. GINSENG's I love that and then and then the ones that have been down since early in the days for like ten fifteen years I would call them Ginseng. Dancing roots tears here. Yeah I battle you will route. I'd I definitely a real I remember my college and this is before any streaming and like in order to find your battles. I'm wire because Oh my gosh happy downloading more. Oh my God I got so many viruses on my computer watching it in real time week one week two take three. Oh Shit you know like I you know yeah like on whatever the next day was we. Have you know whoever. I don't even know how people did this back in the day. Because that's you it was on cable. Like how do you What else yeah? Yeah for. People don't know and you know you gotta find like the The eight bit fucking rip. That people still have did you know you were. They used to have a segment on the show called one to park. Where you at the end like you would battle somebody? Yeah battle rap battle. That'll wrap and freestyle Friday south Friday and you had crazy Fi. You had was five wins in a row seven so the way they kind of format. It was every week. There's a champion and they would bring on a challenger right and then after you win seven. They'll like induct you to the hall of fame Ginseng roots about this. This is really for the new things that are being planted in recent years. But that would allow me to segue into something interesting. Fascinating to me is at Yoyo. It blows my mind sometimes I I will meet someone now. who like? Oh Man I love your stuff but that I love your stuff can have such a wide range. Because there's people that are laissez seventeen now who may have heard of the legend all right the one oh six and park but as you just mentioned they may not have watched it in real time right. Some of them don't even know that chapter of some of them might know Laissez in the more ladder days right when I went out to Asia and brought in my horizon out there with the acting stuff in hosting stuff. There's a segment of jinx. They only know me from that. It's like you wrap to at one point. I may have been on my mind like you know about the history. When you know when the smoke laid I was kind of cool that Yo- someone might meet me right now and become quote unquote a fan now and there's nothing wrong with that? Yeah right because you've had a long career. Yes been a road I've been it's been a road and actually just now when I was introducing I was like Oh do you even call yourself because you do you do all sorts of Shit. Yeah I would you describe grab yourself now. I've I've I've stuck with MC Jin for a few years now and I think we were like kind of reposition conversation to like a branding stance. I'm cool with MC. Mc Jen. Because you know I still to date if you were just ask people. What's the first impression of GIN? When you think of him? It would be the hip hop emcee raps out of the euro. We used to watch him bat. All we know he did that. And then later branched into acting and then I think the comedy thing is actually the most infant of all of them right totally. I heard you mentioned earlier at the top where you like. You said you like six years or so into so even less than that I think really took. It seriously was only in the last two three years. And and I've learned that in comedy negative fifteen so when you only been doing comedy for three years. That's negative fifteen you add onto that so that means I still got twelve more years to go before I can even say I'm one fire but I would say to answer your question. The Mc Jin I feel like it kind of be a good umbrella for everything to Fall Zone Acting Jin can be active MC wrapping zinc beat at Comedian Jink. Beat at and and I'm MC se-jin like I guess even just put it like. Do you work on like every day you wake up you work on your bars every day. Do you like jokes everyday. Well do you probably more like a business guy now so much actually man. That's a great question that I need to feel like I need to take home in chew on that. AH PRIORITY MOM okay. Mom even asked me that question. I think that's what I actually my need to implement bro lying a little bit of structure. Because I think what's hindering me from growing in all of these various things is that you know people know of gene as the free styling guy. Yeah and I think yeah for some reason or other. That's kind of our approach life which is good but I think in this in this room is not bad to have a little bit structure so to answer your question once again. I think I wake up and my focus these days more than anything as a family so you know so one. Oh Six Park Jin was definitely definitely more of a free bird right now. You know entering twenty twenty. You know I'm a married man. I got my two little boys so priorities of definitely shifted in a colossal way but not to say the dreams and aspirations aren't still be Mike. Why don't you tell us how you met Jin? Yes initially I mean. I've I've met so this road of ours has crossed a couple of times. And so the first time I met you was. I used to write magazine called Hyphen so Hyphen magazine. Still around. And it's based in the bay area and they sent me out there to like to interview so I interviewed you on my. She's what did this is before I phones so I don't know why many really really I had like a deep layer ten seconds skip protection anti skip exactly and and So much battery life. I remember I interviewed you and then at the end of course this is kind of like coming off of Wants to go to the park and everything and asks you to like Roast Roast me rap battle title Bruce me you had like a ridiculous outfit on because it was the fucking like it was like two thousand seven what he say. I had on like what I was our. We're and we're purple jeans on acid wash jeans ahead on a cadet uniform. You made it easy. Then yeah what I say. Career I gotta find it but That's the first struck at the time. This is the acid wash gene debt mother I know but And then later on we spent we spent the night this is fairly matching and so there's this thing called. NBC stand up for diversity diversity yearly thing you know he's gone to this shouts twice. I still got a comedy I am not so. That's why I had to stand. I have to say we spent all you have to. You have to line up all night so we were there the night before or in line into the following morning this was twenty six three fucking garbage trucks and I remember it was hot as shit so that might have been two thousand thirteen. Roughly thirteen fourteen both made it through. Yeah morning day after there but I guess like where you stand up thing like I feel like wrapping Santana. They're like cousins. They are cousins. But like you they don't kiss okay finger each other. Sometimes we're Thanksgiving they. Do they do the related. And so the are you focusing a little bit on that because I feel like I saw. So are you really gonNA special. Yeah yes. It's walk negative ten years Adt com the special and call. No part of me has reservations about it. Not Reservations about the material not reservations about. Ah You know being proactive and being excited about the thing but reservations only in the sense that yeah I I my biggest reservation would be that Yo- The people that I highly revere the people that he is as elders and and veterans and people have put like we said twenty thirty years into it to me. I just hope that it doesn't come off in way to like y'all what the heck guys negative ten years he's dropping splash show right but I think how I- counterbalanced that in my own mind is that I'm away of what my passion is and I'm aware of what my agenda is and I think what this quote unquote special. It's only called a special. I only only call it a special because I don't know what the House to call right right. So it's more for like clarity's sake I can't be like hey I'm going to be releasing this forty five minutes set that I recorded and and you know I'm trying to do comedy thing so I just call especially because regardless of what the receptionist when People Watch shit or when they hear that gene is dropping special and the comedy sense at least direct enough for them to know that. But you know this might be the first time in a public exciting for me to announce that it doesn't it. Doesn't you know not cross my mind. Does this thing where I think times have changed. I mean I have to be thirty years in fucking special also. I think there's an amazing thing. There's a lot of Comedians who are much younger than me and they're doing half hours and hours hours and I think that's really cool. That's a really cool gold for yourself because why. Why do we what who decided that? You have to ten years in address right so I think right Everyday Dade fucking a thirty minutes or two three years and I think that's dope so just to kind of broaden the topic of it to me what I hope this special we'll we'll achieve for me is to let people see that this is something Jin take is taking serious. Yeah so yeah I mean just even the fact that we initially cross paths at the standoff diversity thing and then I think my first time actually meeting fool me was at a Mike in New York. I don't remember where but the man Josh homer so at the time I think that was me in a very early discovery stages of this thing called standard. So I've always been you know I was. I've always had an nate connection with laughter and humor but it was definitely a wide wakeup cup. Call that y'all thinking you're funny and then actually you know stance. Stepping into the world of standup is two different things for sure cracking jokes at the barber shop job. You know even bright and punch lines and your mom's and being a funny guy is completely completely different from the art of stand up itself and then I think if I were to really really kind of describe what this has looked for me has looked like from me in the last three to four years that I've taken a dive into it. I think the thing I learn every day. It's very parallel to what you were saying at the top when you were talking about this many road trip that you just it feels like with every passing day that I step into this the more I see how far I am. I am from my own end. Goal and goal isn't necessarily y'all a special like a traditional special right. The end goal is not necessarily selling now stadiums. The end goal is not necessarily surly Netflix. Staying comedy. Central thing to me to end goal is just being at a place where I can fully say do this shit. Yeah I'll be honest and say right now that I I couldn't say that yet. You know what I mean like I say I love this shit and I'm eager to grow. I'm eager to discover myself in terms of as a person and as it relates to McGrath. But I definitely oh I couldn't watch I couldn't watch Yo Chapelle. Most recent ones that I watched whether it was the chapelle join or anyone ranging from Shapiro. Jim Gaffe again. Let's just popped into my head but I couldn't watch to them and be like Yo. I do the same thing. Yeah I can't you're not in my own mind Yeah where are you. Got This thing and you know forty five minutes is a good amount of time to do. Where were you practicing jokes in China question? Are you doing jokes in the middle of your rap. Says I gotta get this time in the number dropped fifteen minutes right in the middle and then you're right you're right. I think so a set itself I could share too so the title of this composition. It's called official title. Is what a time to Asian. Yeah Yeah right and you know I think just it is a loaded name like the title is like people already have a preconceived idea of what the content will be her. And now I'll I'll even day to say it's not that far from whatever you expect it to be right like it's it's a broad title but you get a sense of what it is. I'm trying to get at right away right. What's GonNa be Asian so we are? What is it like what do you? What does it entail Jin? I think material India is a reflection of when we first cross paths at Stanford Diversity. Or even at the Mike's their stuff from there but there's also stuff that's more relevant in real time cents so this past year the fatherhood stuff a lot of it is career stuff like yo going back to the one. Oh six days to the fast and furious and observational stuff. You know by to answer that technical question of like Yo. So where's this material where you refining. Developing looking at a lot of it is data day as not necessarily at a mike or a show but just in conversation one of those guys. Yeah I'm working with what I have. You know so for example you you mentioned yellow are you like doing your rep sets and then like somewhere. We're in the middle like five. You won't tell them. Hey I'm about to work on material which you just kind of you own in your like Scott and you're like by the way my wife and I believe all right buddy. Yeah well yeah so that actually leads me segue into a topic that I think is interesting so I think the fact that I had this kind of BC Jin right before comedian. Junior I love. It is a plus minus this. It's a plus in the sense that yellow so I'm not afraid of the stage. I say you know like there's definitely still that that that excitement and anxiety before I go on the reds for rap show off for comedy joy but I think overall y'all I'm comfortable in stage that that pretty much becomes a non issue so the plus is that but the flip flipside is I think I am so conditioned in terms of as a performer as a rap performer. Yeah but some of the initial things had really like reprogram myself with the comedy thing and was that that you're not coming on stage as a rapper. You coming onto the stage kind of as a you still Jin but it's a different by being what's the okay so like as a comedian and we found this out from just doing different things like whether we're doing a speech or something like that food I've done talks and then we've also have our live show show but as a stand up you go up there and you're like okay. You know you need to especially as a New York stand up. You're like you just want to destroy the crowd with jokes. The jokes controlling the crowd reading feeding it. Yeah but as a rapper. Like what's the difference when you are you. What are you trying to do as a row? Okay well I think because I'm from from that that more traditional golden era boom. I grew up on ninety six pop. I grew up watching in terms of performance wise. I grew up watching. The BUSTA rhymes Tom and a lot to me. I always felt that would allow hip hop show. Yo You can't let them breathe. Yeah it was like Yo you you come out you do in a half hour set you gotta be rocking it so to speak for the whole half hour. What that means in terms of a hip hop set is your? You can't ever let the intensity down right right. What whether it's during Song of course y'all was the go-to phrase for every rabble? Put Your hands up put you right and then even between tracks right right. It's a lot of like Yoda side. Better make some so the big. I think notable difference with comedy is Yo- sometimes is not letting them breathe. It happens naturally but the art of it is sometimes even. If it doesn't happen naturally you kind of have to you got to dictate it. You gotta outlet because something even as simple as Yo you might step on your own jokes. Yeah meaning just something simple as when do you step on your own laughs. And when you don't so something like that you wouldn't think too much about in a hip hop set but when you win like five minutes set let's say you know you want to be mindful of how all that five minutes is used. Some people might be like I don't care I just want pure laughter from the top the bottom but I guess it ranges depending on type of comic because some comics. They're so sure of the the setup and the punch that you know the setup might take thirty seconds and then the punch doesn't come into I'm talking about a five minutes and you're using thirty seconds setup. You gotta be really confident in that punch you do that right whereas the next guy might be like. Nah I need a laugh I need within five seconds of it right. So Can I ask you about what I've noticed have you ever tried roasting in comedy battle. Rapper wondering what the assimilate that creative process is transcend the tedium hope you legit and making it up when you see the guy or you write stuff so for me back in the days. Ace like the battle rap. Jin I think I found a sweet spot where I was able to blend the two. And that's something that you know still exists to this day and when I say blended to is what but I mean when I went into a battle. Laissez was structured Organiz. Sixteen rapper tournament. Or if it was spontaneous on the block in front of you know Sam goody goodies and the guy just like Oh you ram a rob. Let's I've done all of that. Yeah that just happens. Climate Ginseng root comedy fans. Now after comedy comedy. Yeah so so. I was able blend to in a sense that you would always so. If we parallel to like a comic you would always have your stash of what your roast jokes would be. Got It but the beauty would be blending. What you've had in the stash with the real time with all it's kind of like doing crowd work right and your material Bingo Bingo Bingo so I mean Iota answer so your question I love watching roast like whether it's like on the huge comedy Central Platform Bros and I've even watched a lot of like quote unquote the underground rose right like You know just a huge New York rally around and then if you just do a simple search online you'll find tons right. Yeah but I I myself itself have not engaged in it yet and I use that yet cautiously because I don't know if it's something that is on my immediate radar like as much as I enjoy watching in it because I feel like that's a different beast to from patient like if you're really you're but you're not funny in stand up you can still get. I don't know it's like the Can I ask you something about rap. I'm not a rap person but I like I like rap. I Love Right. I like rb and be more. I think I've been watching this show on that relevant flow. I love it. Do we love. I Love I hope you. Can you tell me because it's basically like American idol legit legit. Because I think they're really good but I'm wondering are you talking about in terms of the same lines and the show itself. We talk about the skill set of the artists. I I guess skills I'll say because like okay as a musician like if you watch American idol you might be like these guys are kind of Corny that happening or these like real rappers. Okay to me. I think I I haven't looked at the metrics in terms of all what was the viewership but to me I personally loved rhythm. Inflow it won me over more than I thought it would interest They make them battle rap and stuff they battle rap and I guess you could say as much as you can within like a three month span or how long. They spent filming that show. The premise of the show always take the contestants through the course of what it would be like to go To start from scratch to becoming a rap star so they take them do the battle they take them to the studio sessions they take them through the ciphers and I gotta say that to answer your question for me is it legit. It's legit but for sure. It's packaged packaged as well. Because at the end of the day they're making a reality. Show I right right so so that makes me think more about just what we call reality Eh. In the show I appreciate that they did also add some elements that were a little more rough and rugged so to speak. I mean I could imagine if that show was on NBC. I probably would would have been even more packaged. The fact that it was on Netflix already allowed them to be more loose on rains. Yeah you know what I enjoyed more than I daughter would not that I had anything against the three individuals that were like kind of the mentors and the host. But no chance and I didn't that was the TRIFECTA I didn't know three episodes in I was like Yo. That's ill confidential. Came you get in terms terms of personality. You get interesting. Three three person blend in terms of skill set. You get an interesting rumors in terms of just stylistically tickly genre. You get an interesting three y'all TI Cardi and chance. Yes Father Son Holy Spirit you like what. The name management You like listen to now you know like what's the Yeah so we're talking to people that they know of me I on you know is interesting. I'm always like like half foot in the door. Half without when I think about where my legacy stands and hip hop right And more of internal issues that have been working through. It's getting better and better now but I have enough confidence to say that the three of them. Let's say they'll know of me but in terms of all the fans or how much of the history do they know. I can can attest to but I I would like to say you know how they roots or are they just love to see a Cardi B. Jin Collab- holy Shit. You know. Raise fire in in modern rap. And I don't think anybody thinks of him as a hip hop artists off the top of the heads Mike Posner Mike Po- yeah. Isn't it a feature sure pose. Okay so that's all. I took a pill in visa to show a visa was cowrote. That was my best but that track any the WHO is this guy. Cool for me. You got to send guys so I mean is that those are the two songs that I would reference in terms of Yahoo. I'm talking about aw put if we're talking like M. C. skills. He's dope and album that he just dropped. Call keep going. I believe that's the name of it. y'know Oh I feel that anybody that loves hip hop y'all can listen to really keep going yellow and he's not even Asia so I'm like stamping it. Like that to say you know I just. I love the fact that in this day and age just anybody that can still give me excited hit about hip hop is someone that I really would champion. That's album another guy that's kind of more and that modern modern category for sure are. Russ you familiar Russian. The kids know but this Guy Retali- Russ Silva the tally Russia's cool and then of course I'm I'm I'm a avid supporter of the D.. J. Cole's but I wouldn't dare say like I'm in unlike the Fan boy side because I know there's people that really really got off. They got a Tattoo Tattoo yet. I was going to ask you something about Oh yes speaking of Ti. Did we hear about what he was up to. This is this is this. The current events portion are we segue onto that. But it's just a fun. Little thing is a fun just Mike know about the does Mike. What's up everyone? Everyone I couldn't not I try to not read about got it. Well I just wanted to talk more about like we hawks like masculinity in the rap space like is this what this so. Ti apparently goes to the gynecologist with his daughter wants. Yeah make sure that her hymen is intact and he was like in verb in verbal. That is made. Couldn't even you couldn't write that down with somebody go. That's not real good fake that so I wouldn't put that in toxic masculinity only because he's talking about his daughter now it gets murky because you're like all right. Yeah well just because it's his daughter. Does that mean his daughter doesn't have possession of her own body and that's where you get murky because as a parent myself. I don't have daughters by. I mean I have sons ones and I I can get apparent being absolutely you can say outrageously and nine sensibly protective of their daughters now him saying that publicly Kudos to him more power to them because to me and this is not my. You'll oh you know here's my defending Ti stance. But I'm just saying in a day and age where more and more were were concerned of what we can say can get US cancelled is one of those guys is that is not in that category so I mean anything. If we're talking about the whole like Yo- you know what is politically correct or incorrect. I don't know you know he's he's also doesn't strike me at all ever especially now as someone who just says stuff randomly for shock value or just because he doesn't need that or S- quote unquote clap chasing. They call it these days. So if you kind of push all that to the side I think the focus is on the verbiage and the actual act of him. Being with the guy in the colleges will look at the bigger picture. The picture is a father. The bigger picture is a father sure protecting their daughter. I get that. And the what's the word the the sanctity of his daughter's body this painting the picture like in the stirrups as you know the the doctor and Ti with the stethoscope or whatever. The fuck stole their out. The Bar was when they went so he on the podcast and in the ladies the hosts were like wait. What do you mean like the men can be? Yeah Yeah and then he was like listen to the doctor tells me every time. Hey diamond can be broken due to horseback riding riding riding a bike. He saying spawns dotted override horses. Yeah ride bikes play sports. So why why should I playing sport. Why not riding a bike? That is concerned about her health. I mean that's wanted to talk a little bit. What's the the biggest crowd you've ever performed furtively so you mean just in general in general regardless of a medium yeah The largest probably. Wow it's is kind of cool that I got to think about it so one that stood out to me. That was the time well one that stand out to me was more on earlier. Days the rap side. I opened for fifty accent once at a stadium. Probably like met stadium or something to watch Jersey life all right. What's the one in in Jersey? It was like a state stadium setting so I think the numbers of it was probably like fifteen to twenty thousand. So that was that was definitely rough rata era gin and yeah just got to do a few tracks before he came out but I mean but I I just to clarify. It wasn't like GIN solely Jin opening. No Yeah Yeah it was a lineup of other artists right right just to know that I'm on this stage right now and within a half hour fifty will be on this stage as well for me at the time was pretty kind of ethic pump. The crowd they don't if they may not know. Know your songs go. Hey Sing it. Say if you're looking for parallels between the two the MC hip hop rap game and the comet gain. There's one right there right like how do you come out as the unknown and you're opening for you know you're opening for Russell Peters or whoever have a dare to see Russell Peters in this case they're there to see fifty. How do you come out as unknown Guy Whittingham over I think Your confidence for sure right so it is that thing. Can you just describe when you do to your. Let me say and you know. They don't know the words. But you still say I'll say you know you gotta be so convinced and convicted in your own own mind that they love you already similar to a comic. I guess in that sense where you need to come out and you definitely can't come out like oh man. What if they don't like me right the moment you even have that mindset? I would think whether it's an account in a standup sense or an MC rapper sense. Yoda crowd tree. You up in that sense right. Yeah whatever you say a cheer you up comedy at Silence. What does that look like in rap silence as well could be? I think another parallel yell. The extreme is joke getting booed off the stage. Where fifty ga you know but kind of like streamlining bit more towards the comedy set? I one of my memories of bombing I don't even. This is how I know. I have long way to go. Because because y'all I think the goal in comedy is to get to a point where you bomb so much that you forget how many times you've bombed right so I haven't reached that point. Yeah meaning I can still keep track of how many times on this show you that I still. Am You know. I'm very shallow in the water. There's a way to To bomb gracefully. I feel Oh yeah I was. I was bombing last night. But it was wild because it was at this like little spot in Bushwick. A Lotta like Caribbean people in the crowd and I knew I was going to bomb Tom. Because the host is doing shit like he was doing jokes and it was bombing and then he switched over to like. Okay we're like patient and you'd be like all he was doing something I didn't even get it. It was like some inside joke within that community. And it'd be like well the Jamaicans I'd Baumbach. He would just take sake or whatever it came to his people are loving it. You know what it means the ethnicity of this guy. He he was like you might have been. I'm not sure but then like like I. I started doing bit bombing and I was like am I just supposed to be like hey like this and like Jamaicans the one back this fucking do that so you watch a really good pro bomb. You don't even you don't feel like he's he's bombing but he's like he's still he's still still like telling a story and this is okay. I was smiling and do my thing but eight minutes twelve minutes eight minutes of silence and you like a one point I was like damn this was like you're okay. What does this definitely nothing more reassuring then then a black lady standup setting in the audience giving you the? You're okay honey. I should've just held her hand. There's no black lady giving you the Euro K. is probably more reassuring than your actual mom saying. I want that. That's the one is ah comedy central. Yo if you ever get that one black female audience member. That's like boy you stupid when you get the boy that means they like to stamp when you get the ball you hope it but you brought a one point a moment ago for me that made me realize yes. Israel there's nothing scarier than actual silence cause Yo like oh I should say actually. Getting booed is preferred over. Just a silent booed. I've never I've had the bomb. Say something you'd have to say something booed off the stage or like the crowd is just like into to that. They're just going to try to boot. You off a show designed for design for booing interesting thing. I and I've never gone on the record about this now because I'm against going on the record I just never had the opportunity to banter about it. Yeah I think it was maybe a year or two ago when they relaunched showtime at the Apollo. You got Steve Harvey like the revamped and relaunched Eh. And then I think they only did one season of it and I don't know what's the current status of the show itself on TV. But I went in auditioned for it. Oh you did did to do comedy win as a comic. Not as Raza Rapper. Comic got past. Auditions made it to the live taping killed at taping a okay so maybe like a little bit right under killed off Jimi. I was proud of it. Show dating Eric. which kind of it wasn't like a complete left a curveball? Because you know they tell you like you know in the taping taping. Nothing will be aired so I knew that going in but at least I knew during the taping semi killed right but in the end when they didn't air it I was definitely we bomb but now in hindsight maybe it was better that they didn't air it by I I mean in terms of just being able to recap in my mind it. I don't know why because you didn't bomb might be. I just know they might have been show estimating with light kind of comedy and that type of setting to whether it's the shows on that yes produce adduce on showtime at the Apollo Laissez some like America's got talent. You've I did that. I did an air me. Four Tapie. Oh you got the guy who bombed the guy who bombed the fucking guy who danced naked with a tambourine. I don't fucking so it was. It was Just one more little footnote in terms of the comedy road right that road. And you know I'm just kind of adding these little footnotes as I go along long and learning from each Warren and yell even conversations like this are very insightful so okay so you're now you're back here in New York. Yeah Yeah and then just kind of follows to like yeah. Are you going to try to go on the road now. Not to not to set the expectation. Too High for myself with this this special by the drought and when we say when I say drop a special I literally just mean on Thanksgiving. I'm loading the clip onto my youtube channel. Yeah it's very the link for you ought to check it out on her little pod. I mean just honest feedback criticism. Oh welcome yeah okay so just see what happens then. Yeah so my thing is just to kind of re reiterate again. The goal all with this whole release is just really to let people who are following me. Oh invested in my journey in any way let them know that this is something. I am pursuing actively seriously Areso if that opens a door to opportunity to hit the road with it next year. I'd love to like twenty twenty and you know in my mind. I'm very practical and kind of realistic realistic about it. So when I say hit the road even if it is just hitting little spots cafes but really like yo going on the road kind of what you described early on you know I mean jumping on a train you know jumping into rental whatever and in doing it that man well even though you're negative twelve years in yes you need a opener from people got here for show all right. We gotta give a quick quick shout out to our patriots subscribers and the way we do this is if you have donated on Patriots this week or the last couple of weeks We give a shoutout Bruce Lee but it's about L. E. L. E.. Yeah Bruce Lee rose later is all my God made fun of or all my God. Are you kidding me. You he excuses but it's one e l e that'd be name by the way if we hang it could also be Chinese obviously but like l. e. usually that's Vietnamese hilarious at his name is Bruce. I think he's a cross finish director. Oh yeah yeah like. He like he got he got T.. He's so much yeah that he's GonNa show you. He's doing like upside down pushups and shit. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah. All right shouts the Bruce. We got Lease Santos L. E. L. E. L. ears named Santos Santos Philippines. That does the Filipino. Asking I give a shit money. Oh Yeah Yeah. Yeah so. This sky either didn't know it was a monthly contribution so he didn't go to college at all. Yeah he doesn't know or or or he's like. Hey Joe investor either way. Yeah well you know what. I'm GONNA say that he didn't go to college but he's a success. He's one of those dudes who just like on his own a hustler. A Hustler respects affects other hustlers. Like he's like. Oh you know what I love. I love him thank thinly. Yeah last two we got Cory D'Amato's Damacles D. A. M. C. L. E. S.. The markle's Corey is the first name. Oria CORIO are white ask. I haven't heard a Korean according to I haven't heard Cory Cory since one dunked my head under toilet God corey. Yeah this I'm going to say he's I think he's half I think he's half. I think he's half half what though I don't know the MARKLE's that's how Syrian or something democracy. I don't know I feel like I was saying it's so wrong. Oh probably what what what what according to study. What are what according study physical education? Asu College teacher but failed and now he's a bartender in Denver while already what cory gets late so it's all good. Thank you and I guess. Checks Patriot. Let Conscious Asia Asia pod and. We're back once. Favorite segment is raised. He's he's got an amazing guests MC Jin multiple performing person. And we sent you this article at checkout. I did or you don't even need to if you don't re- but If I don't read the region is that one of the leading So we got we want to talk about this and this is just a little thing in the culture right now you know so. I'll just read the headline says okay. boomer ends marks the end of friendly generational relations and it talks about this whole thing about calling calling our boomers. I guess you could say how did it start wasn't like a video where somebody was denying climate change and somebody commented I think just like any other inter- Internet type of thing like maybe a couple of people started saying it around the same time and then it like the the The New York Times piece here kind kind of talks about how now then started making t shirts and like I don't think anyone controls it owns it. It's just like something. People say. Now phenomena says like Oh okay boomers or has become has become generations. These endlessly repeated retort to the problem of older people who don't get it a rallying cry for millions of kids teenagers. Use It to reply to cringe a youtube videos Donald Trump tweets basically any over thirty. Pay Says I'll show that's me. Hey Fuck who says something about young people and the issues that matter to them so this yeah you know I have a seven year old. Oh He's not saying he's not saying okay boomer yet uh-huh okay daddy but yeah I read that article and it just seems like it's just another kind of thing. I don't know how long it'll last. I think the thing that stuck out to me an article was just people do in March and stuff like that making psalm as well as money. Yeah Very Gen Agency. So there's this irony in that you're making money you criticize capitalism. You're using. Yeah so I'm still in that I'm still in the group. That's trying to figure out. Who Falls into millennials who falls into Gen Z.? Who Falls into boomers? I know there's like like very definitive guidelines to it but I think there's also like a mindset thing you know people that that that may have been born before the millennial linnea group but their mindset is millennial group vice versa. Right where younger people. Now that are like thinking and acting like boomers as well so you know to me. It's one thing what's one of those things that's weird is like. I don't think boomers are even seeing this or don't get this so it's like what is the objective they can't they're not hurting anybody's feelings. Because because our parents don't are not on the internet or if they see it day they don't get so it just seems like jerking off. Well I think there's some there are some boomers on twitter HERP. Well there was. There was one there was one I forgot. He's like a reporter use boomer. That's like saying the N. Word Not Somebody wrote okay boomer esiason point and maybe that is just something inside. Joe Everybody can say the b word just like something. I think that But I think it's it's interesting because to bring back behind like what this whole fucking podcast is about. It's like sometimes I think about that with my parents. My parents are sexual boomers. There's a there's a very easy joke I've seen it done. I've done it too on twitter where I just kind kind of thing I try. I think about like Oh my parents their their war refugees and but within five to eight years of being here they had a a college education. They had a house. They had a car and they had savings and the kids and they had three kids. And then I I'm at the same age and I have none of those things. Yeah so the conclusion must be. That must have been very easy to be a war refugee. You know looney that is that is my conclusion. There's something going on a war refugee and you way better than the dude was born here. Damn that's an ultimate like Vietnamese Bernard thing but do you think there's some truth to that like maybe it actually is hard for you to own a house and that sort of thing. It's like you know it was. It was cheaper back back then. The overall climate in every sense social financial was different. But you know from the the boomer. We're standpoint I think I guess they would say also they have been to more as parents. There's also kind of it treads a bit into the whole parents. Parental side of it. which is you want? What's easier for your kid right certain degree? You don't want things to be harder for your offspring than it was for you so right off the top you know even just go him off of what you just talked about in the last minute. Yo maybe not so much that it's easier for war refugees but it's because they had that war refugee mentality that they came here enable like y'All we bought the flip this whole this whole script. Listen to your parents. Were thinner. More refugee uh-huh watching Saturday morning cartoons while they was you know. Probably you know trying to escape some sort of of camp or something right so so does debt. Which is my mom and dad? Send you here to tell me. Textile son is woke woke. And now he's you gotTa start where I love the idea of of Vietnamese people getting off the boat and go. Let's flip the script like for example my my firstborn right so we have a six month old but let's talk about the firstborn chance. You get what I'm saying. He has his own dreams and aspirations already. Now at seven years old he wants to to be a minecraft expert. I WANNA take over Mo Jing which is that okay. How Jiang is the company that that developed minecraft? So I like the fact that he's seven he's not saying I want to work from. Oh Jang he said. I'll take you WANNA do that. Cool but you know you gotta you gotTa look at Daddy's path. I wanted to be a rapper so I started battling and doing all these things about the start at seven heavy so I was like. What are you growing your rhymes? Are you going to your bars and his contacts. Maybe it's not roms. But maybe he's t needs to look deeper deeper into into the minecraft world like other kids are building like cars and you know play houses in my friend. He's got your. How do I get behind the system? Reconfigure the coating up in this. Take over Mo- Jay. You gotta be Neil almost all right we have this last segment with you before we let you go and We don't we didn't tell you this beforehand so you can just say if you don't want to do it but we were wondering if you could freestyle for us Orient or something written you have you have actual instruments in writing. I have a beat beat. I'm more curious okay. There's only why better now be party. You know Hey this is this. Is this someone's could cost way in the morning. Go give me a bit gimmie volume the headphones. The beats here. We go pay where my snares just made by. They don't shout out the producer Casino. Even they cut the check. You want me to free live right now. What the heck this? Okay yes get enough respect. 'cause come around I'm shocked to cut your neck talk to Mike. Can't pull me who meets all year. I even roll the do because I'm hi John Life. I say hard my wife up so shocked with these rhymes. I should go buy. Yeah knife and what's real simplistic but it's so K.. WHO WANNA battle in no way Jose and that was one time in Mexico yes he flow fresh and you know what a two point oh GPA? Santro protests like every day choice voice. Yeah you know out. J. Got so close that bulk. Both I mean both Buck yes you better go and check Yo schedule Kazama ahead of you. This guy just walked by wait a beanie. Buddy seemed me. I said what's up. His favorite songs Paninis Dodge back. Yes so fresh deaf. Y'all better show respect cut. That's my new slow when I come ripped my shirt open cold okay. Perfect but I'm a rock bottom fan. y'All Yano it even if they'll throw falloff emceed at tax and you can't call off better. Hold your horses pulled the rains because if if you want to bring the pain yeah from the window no smoking Indo. Oh school like game boy. Super Nintendo sixty four. Aw I don't know what you want some more. If you want to know who's the best say-so shoutouts at every world ain't no Way Yeah I saw that was. That was not my anal endorsement. Do you think you could roast them in a battle royal. I don't know it's hard. Well one if you don't know the person and I think potentially essentially I might have used up a majority of my roasting Anna Roasting. I gotTa say if it was like if if I if each person had a tank of roasting Mana yeah I might have liked depleted mine in the early two thousand just a matter of if I want to get back you got to replenish tank time for M. C. J.. Shout out to all the angels for Real Chat to you guys in and and just man what you guys are doing with this platform. Keep Building Nikki pushing in and looking forward to CNN. Groman how yeah. You'd like to plug it. So what's your special again. Also it's called. What a time to be Asian and then in terms of like social media and all that is pretty much I am MC Jin on all the platform expelled exactly how it sounds? And that's coming out. I'M GONNA uploaded on Thanksgiving. I think what better way to celebrate. Native Americans getting slaughtered land stolen from them with the comedy special about you know Asian nece it all comes together and makes it all comes together You can also find on Instagram at Asian Not Asian pod and I'm also on there at the Fumiaki let the ABC. You Could Find Mon instagram. But Nice Pants Bro. Please come to our stand up. Comedy show every third Wednesday they Next One's December eleventh. If if this comes out after that I don't think you will. There's one in January fifteen eight o'clock here at Canal Street market to get link instagram through am bio. So please please get your tickets. Now because they sell out every time MC Jen thank you so much Birmingham belts amazing. We'll see everybody next week by this episode of Asian. Not Asian is presented in partnership with Listening Party follow the crew on instagram listening. Party presents an at Canal Street market.

Mike Posner Mike Po New York MC Jin Asia Netflix Yo Chapelle Pleasantville NBC Bruce Lee instagram Google opium Louis Michel Ali Wong hines Adt
Find A Non-Writing Zone

WCRI Flash Brief

02:15 min | 7 months ago

Find A Non-Writing Zone

"I Love Congressman. He's near US Today finding on writes things. One of the chances freely sexually rate is always writing he. I don't care if away from the keyboard away from the typewriter we've put down the taper. The bottom line is we're still writing. We're still trying to your out. The he atrocious particular problem. We're having or we're trying to got way US. Something really weird just yuping float off. Sometimes it's just something as simple as going after a different topic of drama but the bottom line is that we're always trying to get into writing. Sometimes we just need finance basis. We can recharge re-energized simply relax. This can be a little bit more interesting. Takes because we need situation where we can actually show her brain off for a little while and not necessarily the bad way. This is why we'd be cleanly Jin Meditation centers or even good old-fashioned hot bath. I mean each one of these hasn't stuck at charm. We go to a gym or working out working better working leaner meaner and throwing a grid hot shower. Hey this is time when we basically shut our brain off and we're actually doing other things with it if we go to a meditation and becoming one with the universe during that time. Our rain is viciously wealth part of a different plane. It's part of the university hall and because of that because we're not focusing on who we are at that particular time it gives us a chance to will not be there. We should a weird concept. But it's really weird. Hybrid kinetic suggesting it is a really great thing on top of that if we go into a nice hot bath. Hey jordansekulow bass bomb throwing three really great fragrances. In the area may go in there with the huge glass of wine and maybe even a good book. Which of course will be forgotten if we're doing it right as well. Strong good music. Hey shut off. We're going to the water. We're feeling ever seen her gang Frequencies it's a really great experience. Just simply get lost rely. Heck you simply rock out to your best songs for a little out. The bottom line is you need figure out a way to get away from yourself a little while and you simply relax you. Need to find a non writing spacing or basically survivors writer. Hope this is help. Please checking out a web contribution interviews if you ask you a little bit more. Thank you have a great day?

US Congressman Jin Meditation writer
LOST: Down the Hatch | FLASHBACK: When Josh Met Mike

Post Show Recaps

1:07:41 hr | 2 months ago

LOST: Down the Hatch | FLASHBACK: When Josh Met Mike

"Hi Everybody Mike Bloom here and lost is still over and we do have to go back down the hatch. But this time we're going pretty far back for this particular episode. The reason why you're hearing my voice at the top of the podcast is because our beloved co host Mike Constant Josh Wake Ler as unfortunately not available to record the loss podcast this week don't worry no need to queue up life and death jess yet josh himself it's fine. His family is fine. He just had to deal with some personal. Unfortunately, that did not provide him with a lot of bandwith to record podcast this week that being said I did not want to tally forth into the jungle without Josh by my side for the cost of living especially given what a fantastic episode that is. So we come to a bit of a pivot for this week's down the hatch and you know what last week we had that really fun birthday celebration when we got to look back on everything, we've done over fifty two weeks of down the hatch and I thought well, we're sort of remembering back to days gone by. Let's move further back in the relationship between Josh and I spoke on the podcast about how the first podcast we did together was the episode rankings that we did with the two of US and Antonio Massaro and AJ mass. But what I figured I would do today is bring to you a flashback in the form of a podcast that was recorded a little under six years. Ago On October Twenty Six two, thousand, fourteen, Josh Bigler and I recorded our first podcasts solo during the first iteration of the loss podcast here on post show recap that entitled Lost Lives Josh was going through a bunch of guests every week to celebrate the ten year anniversary of the first season of lost, and after I had spoken about my newfound love of the Kwan's during our. Episode ranking. Josh and I decided to get together on the ten year anniversary of House of the rising sun which as you remember from when we covered it during down the hatches, an episode that I immensely enjoy and got the opportunity to talk some more about the croissants about the episode about lost and just get to know each other a little bit more. So I figured let's Take the opportunities is we have a little bit of gap in the programming to bring you when Josh met Mike That Ping. Said this is twenty fourteen Josh Ed Mike It's GonNa be awkward including the sound quality but I was listening back and I thought it was a really goofy yet, very sentimental time that only pave the way for what we've been able to do not only. This past year, but the past six years since that fateful incident so that being said what you're going to hear from now on the flashback, noise is not going to be a new episode of down the Hatch for that we do apologize but obviously things in life do come. I even over lost time. So please be understanding apologies profusely that we don't have a new episode. For you this week to tell the truth. I, don't know when we'll have a new episode of once Josh, is in a capacity where he has time and head space to be able to record them, we will get the cost of living out to you. So that being said, if you all have ideas of other bonus shows that you want to do even outside of this patch. Patchy as it were were looking to do more miscellaneous shows in the ways of our RPG and book club and all that seth feel free to email us down the hatch at post show recaps, dot com or mention us on twitter. I am at a Mike Bloom type Josh's at round Howard and of course, Poe show recaps is at Po show recap. So again, apologies that we. Don't have a new episode, but hopefully, you can enjoy ticket the opportunity to flashback to perhaps a simpler time in the fall of two thousand, fourteen of when a younger Josh Wheeler got to talk with a younger Mike. Bloom on the podcast alone for the first time about lost not even knowing the journey, they would go down the hatch five years from then. Thanks so much enjoy. Lost Season One episode six house of the rising sun is over and has been for ten years to the day today on after what is it twenty seven October. Twenty seven. We're just getting started here on the loss lives pockets, your post show recaps. In fact, it's the loss lives Kwan cast the very first broadcast hopefully, the first of many I'm Joshua, I am joined your by man who's been away from the PODCAST for a couple of weeks now, but he is a lifelong subscriber of Jin Kwon monthly. I have been told my bloom. Going, Josh I. Love What you did with the place that you redecorate I. Did I did redecorate I put something on the blackboard for you. That's great. I. Hope You have a great decorator. Decorator I have a fantastic decorator Mike I'm so excited to have you here. You're truly are the king of Quan. I don't think a title that many people seek. Kwon one I'm the the Basler if you. Like that first of many quantum's for the next hours I, think that might be the entire show. I think we're GONNA see how many how many quantum plans we can fit into this thing. So. So for the past couple of weeks we've been we've been back with lives. We came back into it starting with walk about two weeks ago I was talking with Antonio. That episode and last week I talked with. Joe Are find who made her triumphant return to law slips to talk about White Rabbit on the ten year anniversary of the episodes and that's something we've been doing is we've been talking about the episodes from season one, ten years after they've aired. Today is ten years since house of the rising sun, it's the first ever Jin and sun episode. Technically, it's really just a son episode. It's not really gin perspective in the flashback. I WanNa talk about the episode. But more than that I KINDA WANNA use the anniversary just to talk about all things Jin and sun, and if that's what I WANNA do there's no one better to talk about these characters within the U. Mike. You're definitely by far I would say the biggest in Suns Fan I know. More than Daniel Day kin. You think. So you don't think that he's a big Jensen Fan. WHO KNOWS WHO KNOWS Day Lewis Daniel Day. Lewis is actually a pretty actually here when they're we're doing loss to I'm jockeying for him to play son and he'll. I. Think you'll really get into the role God. I was thinking that she could play. Clementine all grown up sawyers daughter. and. Several years in the future in Daniel day-lewis clements. But we're saving that for the last thing. Let's not blow our load. I think we should know seriousness though. To a lot of the characters on lost in the podcasts in the past, we've talked a ton about lock a ton about Sawyer Ben Desmond. Even Jack. You know few weeks back when I think when Antonio and I were doing the feedback show and also when I was talking to my friend from College Pete, we talked a lot saieed and how awesome sight is and how he's not a character that gets nearly enough. Love these days in I'd say we really haven't cracked the nut on Jay in and. We've brought them up I. Think we've kind of been mean about Jin, and sun and I don't want people to think that I don't like doing some of Jim and son, and I definitely want to get into those characters a little bit more. So that's kind of that's kind of the goal of today. These are two of the longest stand characters on lost. Gin and Sunday there day one survivors. So let's change today. Let's let's talk about the Guan's. It's the quantum cast today Mike. Where all kwan nothing but kwan, here all our Kwan. Should all acquaintance be forgot? Exactly. Yes. So let's start here with a quote. Mike are you familiar with the great. Rod tidwell. Remind me and I feel like I've heard the name before but he was he was a football player agent. was was a man named Jerry Jerry Maguire. Required to show any money to people. Yeah. He's a guy who really likes you to show him the money. And this this guy, Rod Tidwell, this football player, he his favorite word is quiet. and. He did. He defines the word Quan as follows some dudes will have the coin, but they'll never have the Quan. It means love respect community and the to the entire package the Quan. What do you think of that definition as it relates to Jenin son Mike is that pretty close to how you feel about Jin and Sun Quan. I wouldn't say so I think one of the things that really drew me to Jin and sun in the first place I will completely preface this by saying that the very first time I saw this I was not a. Fan, you know huge lover of that I'm definitely okay. Because I was GONNA ask. For a site new. And you actually brought up a really good point at the end of our episodes recap and kind of end the phase one of lost lives in terms of. These watches you find yourself in various points of your life. As a result, you resonate with various characters, various plot points more, and I definitely think not to dig too deep into my personal life but the fact that I am going to be married in about eight months at this point almost day. Thank you, It's I think that that definitely goes to show what sort of characters I resonate with. Specifically these. Marriages obviously that I have. More than I will be exploring quite some time and to seem to marry characters, go through their trials and tribulations both in flashback, and then in this survival situation and feeling the relationships with on and off the islands is really interesting to me at this point in my life going through these re watches like into these episodes again, I really have my eye out for them. What are the things that really draws me to them as well as characters the fact that they're one of two pairs on the island that knew each other before the plane crashed yeah which is a very different relationship and their suit well, actually one of pairs because I was thinking immediately of Michael and what but there's also. Forget an inch, and now they're we'll get to them in the boon. CAST. Faith may somewhere several weeks from now and that's just going to be a screaming over and over again just. be the one year anniversary of do no harm us just like throwing a party with death? Yeah. It's going to be on youtube eating pizza and doing shots and just getting rowdy and being very happy is dead. Exactly one, byte union summer holder. So granted. Yes. They're one of three pairs, but they're also the only romantically involved pair. The other two are granted interesting relationships in their own right again, Count Boone and Shannon Romance comparing off. That is fifty shades of. But it's it's interesting to see a couple with like this really predetermine relationship and especially the point their relationship was at when they got on the plane and the fact that both were yearning to escape in different ways was hearing to escape on her own Jin was actually looking to escape with son to America to escape her father and to see that their lives kind of come together again on the island and see things kind of get flushed out I mean. Charlton's purposes. Jin is kind of jackass for the first like good half of this season Oh yeah. He's an asshole. Yeah, and he has the moments like you pilot. He's offering people samples of fish and he's catching fish and training fish to people, and eventually he comes on a little bit unsigned. But like in this house, the rising sun especially like Jay is not shown like good light whatsoever and I feel like it takes until in translation a perfect herring piece to house of the rising sun to really understand where he's coming from. Yeah. That's all connected through the bathroom scene, which is I think one of the great flashback scenes of lost. Yeah. I just love that because it also deals. With how lost? And obviously. All through flashback and we see through through the eye motif, all sorts of dealings with perspective. But that's one key example of like one scene taking in two completely different ways we're I meant to believe that like gin has murdered someone but then we see the situation was that he was. He was forced to kill someone that they ended up eating up this man to try to avoid killing him, and we see the Jin is not is brutal personnel. A, horrible for like term a sticky situation and. It's Interesting to see that perspective and it's also very interesting that it's. Eleven episodes between the two as well that we're not seeing that much of Jin becoming a sympathetic character until that time Jimmy comes a late bloomer season one. Oh, yeah, he's. You know it's funny like. Sawyer is also a real dick for a long time. It takes a while before you. You're kind of into Sawyer even after confidence man, which will be talking about in a few weeks. Even after confidence man like you kind of get where sawyers time from but you still feel like he's a bit of deep and then you get in translation and immediately you're cured of. Jenn problems joy. Oh, this guy is very legit. This guy is a good guy. Yeah. I think it's it's until then because up until that point, he's really Top three astles on lost. Yeah. There's also tough because I mean there is a certain translation aspect to it. While you granted we have subtitles but we're reading gyms behavior and the way he comes off even just through his delivery is Berry standoffish and Berry demanding, and so we're really like, okay, we got to this guy is trying to say some sympathetic things but it's coming across like an ass and it really takes a while for us to get used to his delivery and then to figure out exactly what his backstory is and how it's not exactly who is seems even on the island. Yeah. That actually reminds me if you wouldn't mind. Could you button up just a little too much undershirt. For Josh, I have been undermined by you for the past four weeks. Now I'm going to my garden listen, it's inappropriate. You're surrounded by people who are who are watching this live who are just you know thinking bad things you just gotTa cover up it's inappropriate for for a family audience, but it's good for the baby. It's great for the baby it's. Yeah. No, it's. It's fun to think about. To think about Jin and sun back in in season one, it's a very far cry from from where we go with them. You know, I, think on first sight when you're looking at. These first few episodes you're not thinking that these two characters are going to be an in a very real way kind of the heart of lost at least for a while and at least partially for the whole thing you know. You're really going to be connected to these desmond and Penny get mentioned a lot and rightfully. So is kind of the heart of loss but Jin right right right right up there and especially with the fact that they're going to be separated for an entire season and then when they get back together, it's really five seconds before they blow up. So the Jin Sun Story. A lot of tragedy in there but a lot of a lot of reversals as well in terms of like your perspective on on these characters and I think the fact that they're separated actually is a great symbol of the groups of castaways at that time because. Of the fact that these two groups are factions are all separated but these two are at least are yearning to see each other. Again, it goes back to like the first season about the fact that like they were all together and then from sees I would say from season four until the season sex and they reunite on the submarine especially everyone's out doing. Things bunch of different factions in groups. So to have these two characters constantly pining for each other and looking for each other is a great symbol homer perspective of these scripts strangers are still looking to make connections and still a final fight. The fact that ben is out on the doing this and Jack and Kate or doing desk they're trying to find their way back. It's a nice like connector. It's a constant almost between all the groups that are doing things especially in las later hats. Yeah and I'm thinking about the antic most people think about. Jin and sun separated in terms of from season the end of season for season six when they do reunite but they they get separated a decent amount on lost. Even season one in in translation when Jin learns that Sun can speak English they stopped talking basically for the rest of the season. And they don't really get back together until you know episode nine I think season two or maybe episode and I'm not sure whichever one is the. So when they finally get back together. So Jin Sun are are often thought of as pair. Rare for one of them to have a flashback episode without the other one's perspective I really think it's only season one I could be wrong on that. That hassle rising sun is the sun episode. An inch translation is more the episode and I think otherwise, it's there two perspectives melting together as one. So a lot of the time there's a couple, but they're separate a lot of the time and it's interesting because I'm thinking back to the podcast that I did with my friend Pete my friend from Syracuse when when I went to school in Syracuse and my friend who I watched a lot of lost with he was talking to me about his his tape on season one having just finished all of season one and he kinda thought one of his. He likes Gin and Sun a separate better than he likes them together. What what do you think about that? Are you more of a Jin and sun on their own origin son together fan That's a tough question because I see definite qualities that come out of them when they're. Old Tease some quantum `qualities work. I went with it. I actually feel like in spite of all this resilience towards her husband I feel like son gets more feisty. She separated from GIN like look at signed season and five Hillary mother that talk with Charles Win more seizing the major shares of her father's company like she. She has a new attitude and we also see some great stuff with in terms of life the Dharma initiative and I actually I love James Relationships with people like Michael and Sawyer in particular I. I really resonated with stuff on the wraps because it was cool seeing this man in literally in this environment where he doesn't know what these people are. Trying to get accustomed to it almost like a reset for what happened when they crashed on the island. Totally. But together I mean. Yeah together. It's tough because I will admit that when they worked together especially in seasons two and three of the writing was not stellar. The Sun pregnancy storyline is really interesting especially when it ties into Jin possible infertility. But like you know there was there was a lot of circling the drain with some of that stuff and I, feel like when they were back together in seasons two and three in the beginning of four, there really wasn't much stuff. made it from them to do, which is why they kept saying like Okay Jin's going to be the one in. The season three finale to be the shooter to set off the the four or and Sun's GonNa leave this expedition to this place like I think the writers realized Separating Sudden Jin was fun concept. So did it as many times as they could to the point where they were separated for like a season and a half gin is a great character to drop into situations like how he did having Jin on the raft is great. As you said his relationship with Sawyer and Michael having him be part of that. Party of people is is pretty fun. I like Gin when he you know gin and echo that's a strange pair. There Little Buddy episode I think is pretty good. I. Like I like Jen Whenever he's on those jungle adventures with with Hurley and Charlie. TRICIA. Tanaka obvious one catch twenty, two I. Love that when they're in the woods and he's like doing like the ghost story as a like I jin can be. And it's not always comic relief's though he's he can be really good just because there's the language barrier and that can produce some really funny stuff. But but also he becomes you know I I think the fact that he does have that language barrier can be really good for drama as well. You know thinking about early season to win when Michael and Sawyer think they've been captured by the. Details, and they can't like they kind of have to caveman it out. They have to sign land without with with with Jin sort of figure out what's going on. So I think that really works well when he's when he's dropped into some of these situations even Gen being the guy that you see Danielle Rousseau's backstory. Route that's so weird. I love it. I think Jim is like the perfect person just put through all these situations because like I'm only Jimmy off the island and he liked penned a memoir of leg. This is what I went through I. Saw Monster Destroyed This group of French people back. Sixteen years ago. Back when I could not speak English exactly that'd be the title. The orange. Title title. Lengthy title and I think that son works really well. From, Gin the reasons that you cited I think are when she's one of the oceanic sex is a really cool empowered character. But I'm a big fan of like the sun in scenes. I. Like the two of them as friends I know kate gets a lot of hate I. Love for Kate. The performance, not always the character but I think that when when Sun and cater together I feel like they kind of have an underrated bonds that doesn't get talked about super often on loss. The only the only problem I have with Sun as part of the oceanic sex is that I feel like the lost writers come and get off on single parent. Dash son had jeon and I was like, okay. Finally, we'll have a pair of parents that are actually together and have a child but unlike son loses gin and she takes off and has John in the hospital and they go another single mother great does added onto the pile. What do you think that episode that that's an episode that I have I have given the big thumbs down to in the past. That side Jeon from season four, that's the episode where in the Flash Forward Sun gives birth to her daughter. You are led to believe that Jin is off the island as well on his racing to her bedside but we find out that that's a flashback I think that episodes a bit of a cheap. What do you think of the episode? I think it's I think it's like a fun concept on the player's. Rank in terms of your feelings on June incentives suits. I would definitely I definitely put it near I've seen the lower-half because I do think the concept is when you first watch it like I remember when I watched season four from the awesome. Yeah it's a good quonsett. I watched season for for the first time and I saw that episode I'm like Oh that's interesting but then I also put them like A the fact that ended up being that Jin actually wasn't dead it was kind of a fake out by the writers of the little cheap and then when you watch it again, it's not really one of those episodes that you say like well, now that I know what's going to happen let's see if I, still enjoy it you definitely enjoyed a lot in love diminishing returns on this episode. Once you know that the big twist is that they're actually separated. So I think it's like. Yeah, and honestly there wasn't a big episode because she was just in birth. There really wasn't much for her to Reunion Kim To do other than to act like she was giving birth which I again is probably a hard concept to do acting wise but. Doesn't give much in terms of character death. Now. This is something that I definitely wanted to dig in with with you. A little bit on is, is the Jin and sun episodes you know we're talking on the tenth anniversary of the rising sun unless I'm off I believe that is the episode we ranked the highest when when we got together with Antonio Zahran AJ mass to rank all of the episodes of loss that was a three part podcast. If you guys missed that you can go check that out. If you go to post show recaps, dot com slash lost tunes have we do it? It's like six hours of US learning about lost pretty terrible. I think that when we did those rankings, I think house of the rising sun we ranked as the best. Jin And sun episode I and that was sixty five. We own counting down from one hundred eight. We had that at sixty five. So that was they were the first people off the board in terms of characters that had multiple flashback episodes. I think that you are a little more bummed out about that than I was what's your take on on Jin and episode season underrated. I would say, I would say especially to season one episodes underrated. Get lumped in again with more disappointing episodes like. Even something like the Glass Ballerina which are like not fantastic that people are like, Oh yeah. June episodes nothing happens. What's what's the worst Johnson episode in Your Opinion Well. That's a good question I have to check my. Check my my notes here. I had the glass vile arena as my least. Package. Yeah. Yeah The Yeah I did not like the glass. Brown Valerie I thought the whole concept of Sun Cheating on. Jin was interesting but I wasn't exactly a big. Fan of it, I thought that. Was Interesting. But again, in the chronology of the season concerning like we had this awesome season two finale have one the first episodes of season three be. The three of them on a boat. I was like what happened to the hatch? Just tell me what happened to their ads right? That's all you WanNa know at that point in time. Yeah and I think it suffered a little bit because of that. So I think I mean I personally I think I talked about this. In my episodes rankings I personally love the characters that I liked the plot, the plastic scenes that are done I'm a big sucker for Sun and Jin's cre- island storyline because it's almost like an entire soap opera and itself there's so much that goes on before they even get to the island. You could be its own show. Yeah I was I was actually thinking about that today like you could craft entirely tire other series about. Super Super Super Different from loss, but it could exist. Yeah exactly. But. I think it's dragged down. You talk you talk a little bit in your talking with Tonio and and Joe about how there are some episodes especially in season one that had like rape flashbacks and there's some that have great on island stuff. Great flashbacks. On. Islands white rabbit unfortunately Jin sun episodes tend to get dragged down a lot. By the fact, there's not a lot of great island stuff. Again I feel like the season episodes do some really cool islands stuff house the rising sun has the other subplot but the caves and you have some cool Jack and Locke Stuff In translation has the whole story line being started. But other than that a lot of these insa an episodes don't have that much solid stuff going on on island, which is off the episode. Totally I, think that tends to be my problem with Jin and sun episodes is that I don't really remember much about what's happening on the island in those episodes like it's not as memorable as the flashbacks you remember the flashbacks pretty differently. But in terms of what's actually happening on the island, it's A. Little easier to forget and. I think frankly, part part of the problem is. I really like house of the rising sun I really like in translation as as episodes but you just mentioned like the island stuff for the rising sun and you didn't even mention Jin getting handcuffed to the wreckage and going after Michael for the watch. You mentioned like Jack in the caves and all that stuff is is fantastic and I and I love the the Jin versus Michael Storyline to I. Hope we can. We can get into that a little more detail in a second but I think that that's that's part of the problem is like even in the Jin and sun flashback episodes, they don't necessarily always take center stage in terms of what's happening on the island or when they do. It tends to be a little bit forgettable like you're thinking more about the Jack in John and Charlie and kate storyline on the island then you are about. Michael. Know. Getting his ass kicked over watch and that is I think that's a perfect analysis and he just goes back to what you were talking before about how Jin is great to drop into situations because Jin Sun, actually function great as neutral characters of a Lotta scenes like the the the sudden kate relationship is a lot of Kate or even Michael coming to sign him being like I. Have This problem says Oh here's my advice. act like they're much more vessels of plot especially like from time to time than they are like sometimes stand alone characters. So then when you make a centric episode about then it's a little difficult to say like, okay these characters but we didn't really build up that much before are now going to hold their own forty minute episodes, right? Right. Yeah. It's interesting. But that being said I. Love this episode we can dig into it a little bit because they think that there's there's aspects of this episode that speak to the larger Jin Sun stuff. And just season one a lot of it is about sort of as an adversary. You know he's kind of ease. He's somebody that is very adversarial with a Lotta, the survivors of. He's not great to his wife. He's got this beef with Michael and Michael thing is really a big linchpin in the Jenin son's story line four. You know all of season one pretty much. Michael as as a character to put in Jenin son. It's tough because I all I mean again, first time I saw it I was not for site love at First Quan with them. I I was I was a little bit of Sun was not a quantum entanglement no, I say so I, I'll admit I was a little bit of like a Michael and Sun Shipper before in translation because I was like this is an interesting relationship and I know we've seen a little bit of like Jack Jack Kate like crushing on each other even a little bit of this in translation but we haven't really seen something. He will like you know someone cheating on their husband on. The Island and I was like this is interesting chemistry. I would love to see this relationship developed and the unfortunate thing is that it really doesn't and I feel like this is unfortunately one of the examples loss of light taking all the time to build something up only to fizzle out right? Like we see her game like an awkward hug to Michael is he leaves for the raft and then they she is the one that sees Michael I believe when he when the Taylor he's come back into the jungle but I think that's about it in terms of their relationship and it's unfortunate because it wasn't a really Really Weird. Little part of the first like six or seven episodes especially. Yeah. The sexual tension between Michael and Sun it was real. Yeah. Like they almost cast at one point. It was crazy. He saw her topless. Yeah. Yeah for. Her. So I can't even imagine what it would've been this loss would have been like if And Michael had gotten together and then the ironic thing is like it's hard to imagine son cheating on Jin with Michael except like she totally cheated on Jin with that other guy that one time I was going to say it's going to a shot of Michael jumping out a window and landing on a car. But he still wouldn't die because that's the I won't let him die just yelling wom. Yeah SPLAT. Could Survive The. Michael, the Michael Son thing is a big deal and then that kind of gives way into the Michael Jin. Bromance. Love that Sawyer put it best when he calls them Han Solo in shoebox out because that's really what they'd be covered. It's absolutely. Fantastic I think I love. I love the rats, a plot device for a myriad of reasons, and one of them is that it definitely brings about a sense of community for the first time since the beginning of the series and that's where we really see like Michael engine start to bond despite the fact that Jim was trying to drown him probably about a week ago at this point. Yeah. It's not that it's not that much earlier than that I think season one is forty some odd days the only been like two or three weeks at they were really just about to kill each other. Yeah. I, love the the Michael Jackson stuff in house of the rising sun the whole. End even with with site first off. So. You watched the episode before you today saieed tackling jen off of Michael, is like the hardest tackle ever and it's so cool. He flies in from nowhere I feel bad for Daniel Day Kim, because he must have that wasn't a stunt double. He got dropped he drugged really bad. His. ASCOTT sacked. You is. Joe? Reference. You GotTa do it. It was great. So just a little bit of some Kudos for sight but I also love the whole Michael. Saieed Jin seen when they're kind of interrogating gender trying to interrogate Jin because Jin doesn't speak English and I just love how how Michael I always love Michael's where are you from man and Cyprian Secrete Iraq Did do things in Crete U. S. black people Korean people do not get along. Korea. Black people I always I always thought that that scene was crazy because it's something we've talked about on loss lives is just like. Sight as a character who represents a type of character that Americans were not really used to seeing at that moment in time it's two thousand four. Not really seeing a lot of heroic Middle Eastern characters on television, and then you've got this whole racial tension between between Michael and Jen, and now you're throwing sight into the mix. This was really Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. It was racy stuff. It was it was intense but I loved it because that's exactly what it was supposed to be people like carving out their own society of what happens when things kind kinda stripped away your left to your basic survival instincts. Of course, natural tendencies. The way you were raised, they're going to come out and we even see it here and we're like. I don't want to generalize eastern cultures but it Jin was raised in a culture where it's all very much about like respect and honor and watch clearly meant something very honoring and respectful to him, and that's the reason why he went after Michael. So hard was because in his opinion Michael disrespected and. Culture disrespect is comparable. To the worst crimes. So the fact that like Gin took that wife's and a completely different meaning the Michael who has just like, Hey, I wanted. I want to give up a claim thousand wash found in some in the in the luggage. Yeah. I. Also Love the final scene between them when Michael like, I really tend to think out loud too often. But since I've got a captive audience and he like comes at them with the axe and everything. And from this moment forward until mid season to Jin's going to have the the handcuff bracelets. Serie. I like it. It looks good on him, right? Yeah. Exactly and that was. The last lingering bit of the Marshall are the marshalls presence left on the island. So now officially been severed well, we've got we've got the marshals guns in the woods. But that's from whatever the case may be. So the less we think about the better although we can't wait for that anniversary although you do see the marshalls dead body in that episode. So on retrospect of that kind of gives it a couple of bonus points for me. You know how I feel about dead bodies on lost? Yeah. It's definitely rang all always jumps up the score free. There's a dead body. You. Know what we we haven't talked about too much is the performances of Gin and son of Daniel Day Kim and Union Kim who for my money engine? Kim might be one of the best actors on lost. I completely agree and I mean she Her face is the most expressive face ever absolutely like her even just watching the rising sun. Her Express. Shipments to her and her in the bathroom scene and her and talking with the decorator her at the airport, which does scene is still absolutely heartbreaking to me as seen in the airport is still. Really good crier. Yeah she is amazing. She didn't. She didn't even do like the one tear down the about a lot of that and like once upon a time like they actress provocative last time quantum upon a time is the sequel spin off they're trying out but they like to perfect the like one tear rolling cheap the. Rolling Down Cheek but this house, the writing son, it's not quantier is to tears. There's no made out to. Doesn't exist now. Teachers multiple. Tiers Multiple Tiers, and she's able to sufficiently crying. She's not one of those like pretty criers that a lot of a lot of the Hollywood actors are she's show some genuine emotion it but to me also like day on day Kim Smile can light up a room whenever whenever June smiles like the picture even even of him with a flower in the airport, is like such like like how can you say that guy? So we we liked objectify the characters on lost quite a bit. We like to talk about who who's hot who's not not not many people in the knock category I, don't think. But I feel like gin needs to get a little more love in terms of the Dude Babes he is a real babe Daniel. Day Kim. So are you a bigger fan of his short hair or his longer? Dharma? Short hair every single day of the week I think that Jin looks really silly with the long hair I think that might play a role into why do not love gin that much basically from midseason five onward. Okay. So once we use his Dharma hair, you don't like I don't like his Dharma here and I don't like when. He very conveniently now. That he knows English only speaks English like when he's reunited with and season six, I really don't like that he talks. He speaks English to her like in their in their death scene most at their final words to each other I believe are in English. There's a little tiny bit of Korean before his final words are, which is I think I love you son in English. Not a fan of that. Not a big. Fan. I think that's also a big part of why I'm not the world's biggest fan of the. Final Kwon Sung if you will the Quan Swanson. A Thong Song Joke. That cronk GRONK. That be. Played as A totally. Great Great. Yeah I I definitely agree with that. I, mean. The whole I mean, we couldn't even talk about the whole sonic forgets to speak English for for few episodes type. Of thing I mean it's not a very good plot tonight. There are times when loss not know what to do with the Kwan's I. think that's I. think that's part of the problem with having them as as neutral characters. As he said, I think that's a really good way of looking at them. They're really at their best when they can kind of just. Sort of dropped into these stories and they can have they can have roles to play in the largest stories. But when you give them their own like really big island stories, it doesn't always work and especially in in season six for both of them. Given given everything that they need to accomplish that season I think that having to stop down and give them a flash sideways episode, and therefore you have to give them a lot on the island. It's just. It's not just you know son forgetting to speak English it's also can you even tell me what Jin storyline into packages on the island? Yeah. I don't think I even took it down like cats and. He basically gets captured by Whitmore's people. His captured by one more. Yeah. No reason. Yeah. Exactly. Like most people. Look like a digital camera with pictures of his daughter on it. Yeah. It's I. completely agree I feel like the writers were treading water because they're like. got a lot of mileage out of the fact that Ginny summer separate in terms of sun was off the island engine was on it and to see that those two stories kind of diverged and other like great. Now, back on the island, what do they do now and I'm not a huge fan of like Sun with I love Franklin Pitas but I'm not a huge fan of like son being like that with a lot as group. With Pitas and with Ben for a little bit like I, just feel like there wasn't much stuff her to do there. Yeah. I'm a little warmer to that stuff in in season five I it's really season six where where it really starts to drag for me. It's just like put these two together give them a storyline together. It's the final season. You could probably think of something that gets these two in a room together for longer. And maybe I don't know we complain Complain About Season Six holiday lost you lost you lost to when the ghosts to the Kwan's. The Congo's Kwan ghosts I like that. Yeah and I think we should also do credit to Union Kim who is a beautiful woman? She's she's she's fantastic. Yeah. She's she's absolutely beautiful. I'll admit. I. Definitely. Accidentally welcome her topless bathing in a in a creek. Would you in mind that I would not I would not mind that I don't know if I stand as Awestruck as Michael David. But. That was real smooth buddy. I. Played Off a little more. About not the smoothest. He really is he's not but I mean when he got. Twenty four seven, there's not much room for action their fair enough. Yeah and I think one of the reasons why episode like House of the rising sun is sticking out to me right now as I'm kind of watching these episodes again, once a week I'm watching one per week. And up until this. One. Per. Week. And this is this is the first sighting of Sun basically showing any emotion other than just like the really quiet observer son no one knows that she speaks English yet. She's only really interacting with. Jin Anytime she's interacting with anybody else. That's really subtle. You get a little bit of it when she's in walkabout when she's teaching wall like how to brush his teeth with with. The Chia. There's good stuff there but this episode is really such a showcase for her. And I love Daniel Day Kim a big big fan of him. But if you're if you're asking me which is It was it was the more talented actor of the pair, and frankly which Quan would I take over the other if I could only save one I would save son every single day of the week just because I think she has. She has such a crazy crazy amount of range I'm thinking of like the what's what's probably her best seen in the whole show is the season four, finale the freighter. Just heard from the helicopters screaming her guts out. It's just like. Shit. You are incredible. Yeah. Yeah you feel it. I mean like again we talk about how? For a lot of seasons two, three and four, we get a lot of weight from the characters to get more towards plotted elements. Then we kind of forget we take for granted the sun and Jin, relationship until that moment when like when Sun Jin get on the chopper and Jin ends up missing the flight and explodes me see her scream in terror it really shocks your system back almost especially looking back to be like Oh yeah I forgot the they're in love and that they're getting the island so that she can have their child's yeah. Yeah. Big Big stuff. Yeah, you know what else no I'll say is this is a complaint that I've I've said before I. Think I said this with with in my podcast with my friend Pete is that. These are beautiful people. There's there's a lot of cattle you you by the love between Jin Sun. I don't always by sexual chemistry between Jin and Sun Yeah I'd agree with that. You know in this episode house of the rising sun in the first flashback scene when he's the waiter and he gives her glass of champagne and then they go and they meet and he gives her a flower and then they kissed. Hot. But but then future kissy scenes between Jensen tend to be like you can kind of tell like Daniel Day, Kim Kim just aren't really going to go for it. Yeah, it's we are. We I wish we see more of like Yon- young. Jin Jin sign. Flashes to their wedding even then things are a little neutered I would've loved to see them more like. Hot in the sack Jin Sun like. Dr Driving around till four am like doing doing things that she won't Tell Dad about Oh my god Mr Paik. Mr Paik. Yeah maybe that maybe that's why there's so reserve. They had like some traumatic incident with him. They just ever since every everything ruined sexually. Speaking on though I mean I talked I talked before about the kind of cultural difference between our culture and. And Kwan's culture I think the whole. The whole he's a he's from a poor fishing bill and she's rich. CEO's daughter might seem a little stereotype especially from like a fairytale perspective. But here I actually really like it because of the story on. Time. Yeah exactly. It's their. It's their whole flashback. This the principle of popper. The Princeton Kwong per but. I think I actually, really like it because again, it shows the huge cultural divide in there. It's a huge class warfare over eastern cultures and like a relationship like. Gin and sons is unheard of to have like a poor fisherman son. Fall in love and end up marrying the see the daughter of the CEO's slash like mob bosses in the country. Like. So so taboo and I think the lots of lots of good job of explaining it but I feel like it's still like not even emphasize enough. Yeah, I can. I can agree with that I really like That's why I really do tend to like their flashbacks a lot. The one that I'm thinking I think it's I think it's do see I'm not a thousand percent. Sure on that. whichever's the flashback where son basically has to go to war with Jin's birth mother and I think that's I really love that I love the episode. I think that's the episode where son goes and Meets Jin's bother for the first time. Yeah I love that. Yeah. I. Really Love Seeing I. Wish we'd seen it more I. Love Seeing Jin's hometown. Now I think that's that's always really fun. I. Love Seeing. Jin's father. On the runs around there is great. He's one of the only good fathers on the show. You can count them on one hand loss writers. What are you doing? You have a good father on your. Who is in your script wire? He's like well, we will hear from him anymore because that's boring Mike you don't want the good fathers August. Cowboys have daddy issues but not a fisherman who are the good dads this is this is something I'm always interested in the good Dabs I. Think I think Jin's dad's seems like a decent dad. Yeah. Sounds that works and then I think it says a lot that probably pretty close on the list Hurley's data at this point even though out on Hurley as a kid does. Seem call now. It's called US cheats. You can't go wrong with cheech. Yeah. Like who's the next best dad is like Chris Rock. Holo Pool of applicants. Desmond's a good dad. Doesn't. Desmond. As a father yet doesn't father this is a good father. Sideways. Jack is a good dad, but that doesn't count because it's not real. Yeah. Exactly. We we. We don't talk about that. We don't talk about that. What do you think of Mr Paik? Is Interesting. I. Also again, feel like he's supposed to be painted as able character, but he seems more like a cardboard cutout anything more of a plot device of like this is the thing that standing between Jin and sun's happiness because I mean like he's not showing any sort of compassionate light. He's a man who wants to murder people because they are on their shipments or something like that. So I think he's he does his job of being the catalyst behind a lot of the events in flashbacks, but that's Not, like. Oh Let me see what Mr. Paik does this week. I'm really dying to see what mister does. I think it's a real lost opportunity. Lost Opportunity I think there's opportunity a lost opportunity. That day never tied Mr with more or something I completely agree I thought they were going to for a while because I mean he's a big international businessman. I would I would expect them to we saw son interact with him on behalf of the company, but really to threaten whitmore more. But like that's it, which is surprising. Yeah. I really thought that that was something they were going to do. It just seemed like something that really could've naturally worked in that could have given Jin and sun a little more juice. Yeah I completely agree and now nice. Maybe we would have seen desma crossover as well. Oh Man Desmond versus Mr Paik Oh. Man. I would love that that'd be pretty great. Then Jin then they Mr Pai dies and then Jin's father takes over. Oh. My God. would be amazing. Given them all the opposite. It's all going to be fishing nets now. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be good. I like that I enjoy that I that would have certainly been a better use of Jin and sun in season. Five? If you know show is up to the island, his submarine and Whoa Mr Paik as well. Yeah. Exactly and that that would've been interesting if like. I also would have loved to see more of Son's relationship with her father once she got off the island I mean I think I can't remember too many scenes with the two of them. We just know that when she meets win more that she is like. She has she has a major shares shares, their father's company. Now, I didn't see too many between the two of them, but I would love to see especially with this newfound Brazilians after losing gina specially to have her father and be like I'm running things now. Really, just half him episodes like her toady like just like totally her you know her bitch well, especially since I think slowly more and more I think son starts to find out about what? She sort of knows what he's been doing for father but I feel like she starts really get to know gin and realized how much father is kind of corrupted him and what he's made him do to have kind of retaliate after that would have been something really interesting to see. We gotta talk about the bathroom scene in house of the rising sun, which is something. We'll get the perspective of in in translation this like this flashback scene this always just burned into my memory in terms of Naples of. The best loss flashbacks is this scene Jin coming home covered in blood son running into the bathroom smacking him in the face asking him what he does and what does he say like I do whatever your father tells me to do it for us. And then she leaves and. In this episode it like fades to black. It doesn't even wash back into the presidency now goes to commercial. And it's going to be. So long it's going to be until in translation, which is I think like ten episodes after this or something like that where you get the other side of the mirror where you get to linger in that bathroom for just a little bit longer and watch Jin's face just crumble and cry in the mirror and. Man Oh man good good good stuff. It's fantastic and represents like the heightened tension of the relationship at that point in their lives as well because I mean, we don't see too much beforehand. There's a couple of scenes of like Jinxiang. Oh, I have to work late. Here's a puppy and we see like. Bubble I mean, see son be like, Oh, I remember he's got me a flower in that and not used to do the trick but this is like this is like when they're really at their most ten I mean I'm not sure in terms of chronology when the whole infertility things comes in here as well. I don't know if that's kind of on the forefront of their minds. But I feel like things like come to a heat and I. Love. James. Hold offensive like you know I'm doing it for us. I'm doing it for essentially the family which is I mean, I know I know you watch breaking bad as well. Watch breaking bad as well. Josh it's a big a big theme and breaking bad up the things that you do for your family and. Things that you do for the people you care about, and we'll see it more than entrance how how far Jin is willing to go percents happiness. We have a question in from Chris Burton who wrote in and said, do you guys think that Jin should have survived the submarine? There was really no reason for him to stay down there and it was kind of Douche, baggy considering he has a newborn. Something that we should probably talk is what what's your take on on Johnson's exit from Las So I think I talked about this a little bit when we were doing our episode rankings but I personally don't have a problem with it just because I mean we came into the show with Jin together as a couple but them devoted to each other I wanted to see them go as a couple I. thought it would have been actually pretty cheap to have had generally the islands and be with his child because I mean it's it sucks to save them when they were in that church. Jin Sun Jeon. It was Jin inside day and were each other's worlds and to have it. Like. Gin leaving her would be allowed maybe more of a douchebag if the left like. All right see you later. I. Yeah I I hear you. Yeah. I just I think it was. All the stuff we just talked about how there's a lot of plotting and treading water going on June signing especially ladder season five and beginning of season six I thought it was beautiful them to come together and like you know them reuniting and Jin swearing to stay with her especially after they had been separated for. So long I think it just shows how strong their relationship. was and how are we came from? John Yelling son to button up shirt I mean it's there been a mountain of character development and scenes and a child, and separating, and reuniting, and separating and reuniting again, and if you really see the person that you love and the person you want to be with the rest of your life, you are not going to leave that person. Wait until you've been married for a couple of years is going to say, maybe maybe my maybe my life maybe my mood will change. Maybe we do this again in three years I'll be like should've left Nassau. It's really it's really lame that he speaks English to her. Yeah I agree I think Korean is language they fell in love with I. Think they should have snow Korean as well. I think. You're eighty son hit her head on the pole and she wouldn't be able to remember to speak Korean anymore Oh, that's a good theory party that's ongoing with that theory. That's a good theory. All right. Well, Yours Yours Quan expert. You're the guy knows all things Jin son let me ask you nagging questions that everybody who watches loss all the way through gets really. Are you ready I'm ready. All right question number one. Why doesn't son travel back to the nineteen seventies with the rest? The oceanic six? Why is she not able to go back in time? So. Good question. I mean I like I forget whether it was you or Joe whether theory on the podcast that the Quan in the cave or in the lighthouse was only Jews name. I like that theory though I think is there isn't there a point season in season six when someone tells sun that her aunt Jen revolt candidates were they were just humouring her. Yeah I don't know. It's a pretty confusing. Confusing situation but I I would see. Yeah, I could see Jin is like a popular. Dream is a quantum under him. I saw maybe I'll go with that theory because I do think general be an interesting. Helium interesting like air to the island. Son Summer be interesting as well. But I think Jin I feel like Jacob would be seeking out Jim more like Jay Jacob wouldn't wanNA broke down with a little bit as a as a puzzle air to the island. Well, we know that Jacob likes to fish. That's true. He loves he loves to fish maybe he respects Jin as a fisherman. Maybe. He can be his new father well, then the second question I was going to ask was which Kwan is the candidate, but I guess you believe you would say Jin. I. You know what I actually would say Jim because I think go back to the bathroom scene Jin says I'm doing this for you I'm doing this for us doing this for our family that is a Kim that is a quality of a candidate is that he is doing things on sang? Making sacrifices. He's doing things that he are against his morals that are against his will to for the betterment of the other people and I feel like that's something you want in a candidate. So I feel like June possesses those qualities i. mean some someone would be great as well but I feel like gin has a lot of selflessness. Is there any other Jensen stuff you WanNa talk about or I also love to get your thoughts and just like the rest of House of the rising sun some of the caves and all that action. Yeah. We can talk about that I. Mean I mean we can talk about the The? Be. Seen. Be Oh God no not the bees. I thought they were sees actually. No. I didn't even I didn't even notice job until the rewatch and even then my fiance. Laughing what and I think I I heard Charlie mumble a little bit. I didn't even hear that line but I love it. Great Great Job. It's interesting though I am totally in doing this re-watch I'm so intrigued as to how much charlie is such a supporting character in every single episode of the first season. Charlie was a big deal. We're GONNA talk about Charlie next week on lost lives. Next week is the tenth anniversary of the moth not not not officially confirmed what we're doing for the Moss just yet, but we'll. We'll be talking about that. We'll be doing charlie gas. Next week we'll be we'll be a group group hang out everyone's singing you all everybody I was going to say we're just going to be doing drugs. They go hand in hand. So, much there's so much about Charlie as a drug addict in these first few episodes of lost they kind of get away from it for a little while but it's it's really pretty serious in this episode everything between him and lock lock a driveshaft fan yeah, I love this is a really nice actually in terms of Charlie unlock. It's a really nice like intermediary episode between what happens in Walkabout and and white rabbit and the malls in terms of. We see lock and his renewed sense of faith talking to Charleena ties really nicely into what happens in the mall with you can ask for your drugs three times in the third time I'll give it to you. It's all about the and Islam even says, in this episode like I know, you'll be able to find your guitar because I have faith this Miracle Guitar. Somehow survives balling it thousands of beat out of the sky and balls into these magical trees. Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. I also wondered. On rewatch. So. So lock figures out that Charlie is going off into the woods to do heroin. And I kind of wonder in. He knows that Charlie's going not to do heroin because he's such a huge driveshaft fan and he like read all the tabloids like Charlie paces a junkie. There's not much you can do when he is in a wheelchair and his planning walk about. Well let me see what's in the news driveshaft again I mean he knew their life he had opinions about oil change versus their self titled Ep I, mean, he's clearly. That actually Mike, do you think that driveshafts self titled Debut is is a much stronger effort than oil change or do you think that that was a harsh comment? All depends oil change haven't of you all everybody's. I think when you like load it onto your computer like like the secret music video pops up. Yeah. Okay. Then I might have to go with oil change just because that's good dirt on the band. I know you love you all everybody's it's. I love it as much as I love the music but he over sticky situation by Taylor Wilson about the music video for the song. I mean that's just an a class of its own. It's right up there with the most the most inspirational videos of all time is the Quantum Song Jin's got dumps like a truck truck. Truck truck. Yes and this needs to be written the Quan Song Yeah. If one of you guys out there wants to write the Kwanzaa I'm going to be very happy to hear it extremely happy. What do what do you think about the fact that the Kwan's they end up in the caves to the caves do you think that they understood what was happening obviously son understood but what's the logic? Why are they going to the case? Why think I think Jin to go I think gym. Lonzo get away from that situation as much as possible and we know that Michael wanted to stay on the beach because. I love the case ration- storyline is well because it's great dichotomy between those that are that are slowly realizing that they're going to be here for longer than they thought and those that are still hopeful for survival and those who feel like they need to get off the island you have are caught in the middle. So if I if I were gin I just granted, I got free by Michael, but Michael is still still understand him but he seems very irate at me and I see Michael is going to stay on the beach. I am absolutely taking offer those caves. It's probably a good idea. Yeah. And especially since like you'll have like. Waving an accident this guy space. Yeah exactly like bronze and purposes Martian. Pretty traumatic even for a hitman like Gin. Just have like this scary guy with an axe waving in your face. Shouting Gibberish at you yeah mistake Paik did not train him for a man with an axe coming at him and speaking gibberish yeah. It's pretty pretty messed up. Yeah. So like I think Jim made the right call plus. It's also if you go to the cave, you you sit with your back to the cable and that means that you'll definitely be defended from one side. Nobody can really sneak up on you and try to kill you which is probably what he's thinking about at this point inserting that. Like. Okay. Dropped him and like he just got his his walked and now he's pretty he's pretty much like he'd beat Sawyer he's now public enemy number one at cancel I would want to take off. Much as I could. Sense. Mike anything else on Jin Sun or should we save it for future Kwan Casper Kwan cast to yeah. This I think we we have to we've set. We've paved the road right now. Let's drive this car. CAST also, I'll remain reserved for now only in that I my my love for sign is very nubile love and I'm happy I got to expound on a little more with you but I'm excited to explore more as as we keep rewatching you want to experiment with your with your Your fling with declines. Spearman a little bit. Do. You have any quantum's that you didn't get to use it. You want to take some time to us right now just like throw. I wish Jin had more of a role in some like it hot so that we could talk about how in Hurley's version of the empire strikes back they would be on hall with. I'd thought you were just going to go with quantum solo which would have been easy to. A good one but I liked I liked the empire strikes back where Hans Solo had to Quad Solo to cut open and quantum climb to. Loop Quantum Walker inside if remain warm Oh. My God. You just blew my mind. Keeping those, we'll do another climb cast certainly around translation whenever we get to that that's going to be several weeks from now. But when we get there, we'll talk we'll talk more kwan's I was really happy to talk about the quantities or characters that we haven't. Really. Really sunk our teeth into that much here on loss lives and I think they they're interesting characters in terms of. What what the show gets right with them what the what the performers bring those characters I think just as fascinating what the show gets wrong with Gannon son. So there's a lot a lot a lot a lot to talk about with Jin, and Sun maybe not the flashiest characters on the surface, but totally worse a second third fourth infest looks. So we'll definitely be talking about them more as we roll on. Here's the next week we'll be talking about the Mazda stay tuned. For more details on that. If you WANNA make sure you don't miss an episode here on the loss podcast, you can subscribe that's post show recaps dot com slash lost itunes Mike boom is doing tons of cool stuff here on post show recaps with another show. Mike, do you WanNa talk about what you're up to? Yes, I am doing we kept of not quantity of time but once upon. A time we are about five episodes into season four. I'm doing those recaps with Kurt Clark. It's a lot of fun. It's thoroughly entertaining show. So actually you hours after we record this, I'm going to be recording the recap for the most recent episode that aired. It's a lot of frozen fun in once upon a time this season it season four right yep season for house the frozen stuff going. I personally enjoying it is seen frozen a couple of times before and I feel like they're tied up in but it's not heavy handed and it's also not necessarily storylines that are associated with the frozen cannon. It's not like well, remember this part from the movie because they're doing it again, it's more like they're kind of spiralling off into its own little V. Narrative and tying into the other makers as well. So I'm very glad it's not handed. Upswing season three was little little. All Right Mike Well quander full job today on law lives in your return to loss lives today Mike you guys should follow Mike on Twitter at a Mike Bloom type I'm at round. Howard like Ron Howard but rounder if you made it this far what should I be my Kwon Song Kuantan Funds on Here. That qual- on like it goes baby. Kwon Kwon already something tweeted Cisco I smell comeback. Yeah. This could be it could be we could. That'd be great. It's a tweet us your lyrics to the Quan Song and we will be back next week with another episode of lost lives take care of everybody by.

Michael Jin Sun Jin Michael Jin Sun Jack Jack Kate Gin Jin Kwon Josh Ed Mike It Kwan Jin Jin Sawyer Ben Desmond U. Mike Josh Daniel Day Kim Sun Quan Joe Mike I Jim
LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 1, Episode 17: In Translation

Post Show Recaps

2:16:29 hr | 11 months ago

LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 1, Episode 17: In Translation

"Hey wrote the book. No where is it it. mm-hmm getting lost is over. But we have to go back down the hatch. It's the lost rewatch podcast here on PO Sharia capsule everybody. I'm Josh Twitter. I'm joined here by Mike. Bloom and Mike. If lost dot dot dot not in translation is the boast difficult to Google episode of Lost Ever. I don't know what is all that shows up bill. Murray and Scar Joe. That's what you get so you just get the movie every time I this. Is that you agreeing with me and Korean. No that means Elche my hands Yeah I'm glad that you got that too. I feel like we heard that a lot. Maybe in the subtitled. Not so much like you know so hard secrets exist. Throughout the marriage of Klein's so is the secret of what did scar. What are the the whispers? What are the whispers all all university? Maybe it's all Bill Murray various characters over the course of his career. Maybe Lindelof was just such a big murray fan that he wanted to put them in. Well awesome well he was you know. Hello Dr Peter Bank then a ghostbuster it would only make sense that he would be associated with ghosts on the island with his lost in translation. Whispered I feel like many people right now are lost in translation as hyping up dot dot dot in translation this very sultry Torri title here for episode seventeen of loss very soldier you just made it sultry cheinal nation like ooh expose no. I like that I like. I like how you just did that. ooh In translation. That's how I want to say it. Now okay okay. Maybe every time. There's an ellipses before an episode. It's an implied ooh in translation but we are and found CSI CAn't wait. Oh my God Mike. You and I are at the beginning of the end of season one for ourselves as far as recording as we announced announced on our most recent down the hatch. podcast Mike and I are binge recording the remainder of season one in order to make sure we do not miss a single week. As I've got vacation looming I shall be going to Japan for the end of two thousand nine hundred through the first couple of weeks of two thousand twenty. I'm not bringing my computer hurt. It's not happening not gonNA push the button. I'm going to be unplugged so we want to make sure that we've got everything lined up before I go. Which means by the time you out there are? You're listening to this podcast. Mike and I have already recorded through. Do No harm we are. We are really in it right now. So even though that episode is GonNa hit can could we can we also asked like hey guys this conducting you like chicken on us. Wonder if we're doing harm to ourselves we might not be doing so great. It's it's hard to know at this stage age. We're at the start of a week where we're going to be doing a lot of lost podcasting. I've watched through do no harm already so I'm prepared. I've got all my notes and everything and it was a delight to the watching and the note taking but we're going to be talking about what like twelve hours of lost podcasting by the end of this week and then we're going to do at least another twelve hours the following week because we're doing two weeks in a row in the scheduled for that because you can still send in feedback for next week's batch recording which makes no sense in the time travel said so the world season five. Josh already confusing people. We're already doing time travel. We're still at this point that you are listening to this on the Friday that this podcast is coming out we are going to be recording our podcast about the greater good on December ninth. Our podcast about born to run on December tenth. Our podcast about exodus part one on on December eleventh and Mike and I are all still figuring out exactly when we're going to record exodus to in three but it looks like it'll either be next week or the week after so you've got some time for your feedback for for the second. The second half of Exodus send all of that in down the hatch at post show recaps dot com to make sure your feedback is making it into the other section but as far as ooh in translation through no harm no harm. That feedback is already locked and loaded so do not bother if you would like to send feedback for those episodes. We are going to do a big season. One wrap up. Show once through exodus to recalibrate ourselves before we head into season two. So all that feedback. Bill be read there. Do you have time to get it in for the Greater Goud. The Greater Goud Mike We have other business to attend to. Today we're going to be announcing the winner of the Lindelof volume one our first ever lost song parody competition. Somebody is walking away with the wombat station. Half by the end of this podcast we will announce that at the very end very exciting times here on down the hatch absolutely absolutely and should it be honored by Hurley putting a CD into his desk men life of its batteries. That one song I think it's only fitting being that. The final results of the first ever Lindelof are revealed in the episode where Hurley disc man goes silent. We will carry the music forward. Good for you Mr raise pretty good battery life. I know far to the end but like I said what like a month to four battery. Standards as an avid gameboy advance player back in the day. That's pretty damn good pretty good. It's pretty good. I just changed the batteries on my mouse the other week and they already died by this morning so I really new batteries myself. Batteries nowadays are just. I don't know if it's a they've stumbled upon a lithium mine or something but it seems like they're a much greater raider power supply so I could see why Hurley would be able to run a dismantle. I guess it would be is iphone in twenty nineteen loss throughout the entirety of the series. But here I really commend. That is is good old the Walkman disc man able to make it through seventeen episodes of lost. Yeah the good news is next episode. Next week's episode on the PODCAST Hurley will will be in pursuit of some battery power but for whatever reason it doesn't seem like he's GonNa apply it to his disk man but we can. We could save our critiques. The battery quest for next week for this week Mike we go forth into the jungle to discuss translation directed eliminated in. We know homer Simpson. Who in translation? Sorry I will try to remember the in which is Jin Kwon The centric star here of ood in translation and it has been pointed out to us by a few different people and I. I hadn't really thought about it but it definitely tracks. What's the more that I think about it? This is the only episode of lost that is solely a Jin Soo. Kwon flashback is involved in other flashback. Episodes typically weekly paired with Sun but this is the only one where it's just his perspective and Sun doesn't get a say that's interesting. I really not put that together until aw until we started preparing for this one. Yeah and I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. I mean I love Gin and son as characters but Jin is a character that has always interested in so many way specifically his own. We talked about the arc of Sawyer last week. He has his own sort of arc during his time on the island. I guess maybe son gets out on a lead over him partially because she's as part of the oceanic six and she has her own action. You know her own driving forces that you'll have with her father who were introduced to in this episode. Maybe the writers just I did not find any other interesting items from January. Jin was not the one having the affair with his English Tudor. Jin was not the one who had the Mega Mega Lo maniacal father other to To grapple with behind the scenes but yet is interesting looking at the spectrum of things of how yes. There is a lot of Gen in the sun flashbacks but If you're giving up the quantum a pie chart She's getting most of that. Filling and gyms left with the crumbs crumbs can be good. If it's a good crust. Yeah I suppose so. I don't know the land. I feel like the quantum more of a lattice team their stories weave in and out of one another like some nice pastry. Yeah all right so this episode dot dot dot Ou translate translate. I kind of really keeps them. I got to be able to maintain that very hard to say. The title comes US directed by Tucker Gates and his Co written by Javier Grill marks watching we quote quote a lot here on down the hatch also written by Leonard Dick who writes a lot of lost in the first season and the second season. I believe this first episode of lost. But he's going to be with lost through the Bernardin. Rose flashback in season. Two it originally aired February twenty third two thousand five and even though this is the first gen flashback. We actually already read the Jin Series Bible Entry Back in the day for House of the rising sun which which means we get to add new entry to the down the Hatch Series Bible this coming our way courtesy of the Ben Behind the curtain and this is down the Hatch Series Bible written about Mr Paik Sun's father. If you're ready for me to read this one to you. I'm very intrigued to see what this this man's backstory as to make him behave the way he does okay. This is the down the Hatch Serious Bible entry on Mr Hake which means it is at least a little little bit wrong. This is what it says. One of the wealthiest men in all of South Korea. Pike Woo Jong is the father of Sun. Quan Pike is a businessman. God who isn't afraid to use any tactic to get what he wants including buying off government ministers commencing hostile takeovers and using his own son-in-law Jin to carry Out His dirty work all in the name of staying ahead of his greatest competitor the Whitmore Corporation. Obviously that last part is not real There's no real connection between Pike Industries and the Whitmore's that I can remember and certainly feels like one of lost biggest. I missed opportunities. Yeah I think there have been some rumors and obviously the fans have been trying to connect the dots but I think the writers had outright presented us with those dots to hugh connect. I mean you just want those things. Yeah exactly what you just hope that. I mean it's very much in line Josh with like a group mentality from Mister robot right of like. Oh you have this powerful a businessman in Charles Lindbergh. You have this powerful businessman and Mr Paik. You think they'd be aware of one another over to work together or against each other in some way shape or form. I think we're refund of head cannon here on down the hatch maybe we can make it personally. A thing yet was never outright mentioned by the show itself to have those two Woah. Big Business Heads Butt heads. There's very little that I regret about lost in terms of the way. The story is conveyed. As I've said many times here in down the hatch my most recent rewatch lost. It just may be loved the show even more So there's there's not a lot here that I'm really that ever really GonNa like truly Rulli complain about but I do think if there is something that was just like left on the table that could've been really compelling to explore. I think connecting to whitmore connecting pay closer to the island island. I think that that could have been pretty powerful stuff. especially with we know the mystery of like which Kwan is the candidate to rule the island. I think just like to tie that mythology closer to the island. Mythology could have been fun. It doesn't really happen. We can do our head cannon thing all about that here as we're going through down the hatch if we see those opportunities but we're GonNa go gonNA talk about. ooh In translation Mike. ooh I like this episode so much more than I remember enjoying wing it coming into this one of the four episodes of loss that I've watched this past week. This win do no harm. I think that I would rank this one laughs but really almost hard to pick and it's just kind of last by default. This is a great episode of lost. Yeah I mean listen. I'm not going a couple with you in any way. I'll still double what I said last week in that I really love the flashback. Nine Love Dem choosing how to do. The flashback where we are sort of trotting over old territory. But it's in a way that makes it look completely new through different. Eyes stuff is very interesting especially since now we're really focusing focusing on the raft of it all and that's obviously going to be like the biggest piece of concern right through the end of the season but I agree. I mean we're about to get into some really awesome awesome loss as much as we had said that maybe the first part of two thousand five in lost is not necessarily great. I feel like outlaw. Sort of helped kick start a brand new step up for the show. were yet even if this one is not an all timer. It's still pretty darn solid. Really really good really solid episode. Let's talk about it. We're going to give our summary The of the episode with the assistance of eight sounds. And we just don't say it enough so let's say it again. We Open on I because Ooh of course we the open on an eye in its jie-ae and he's staring out at the ocean and he is all alone and we're we're just lingering on that for just just a little while before we dig in deeper and we get into our flashback. And it's Jin with the after mentioned Mr Paik and it is a very area awkward conversation. Indeed yes so it's really interesting. You know trying to essentially much like that. Pilot weaving the events of House of the rising sun in dot dot dot in translation so our assumption is this is after Jin and sun sort of had their little Hey I'm just a waiter at a party. Oh No I'm actually actually your secret lover moment. And he has gone to pay and essentially ask for his daughter's hand in marriage. So that's where we're sort of putting things in the timeline. But yeah this is is our first. Look at Mr Paik and Josh. She isn't a whole Nicole. He is such a jerk. This guy. He's you know he's really the total opposite of of another father that we are going to get this episode. Who Will Gush about them when we get when we get there but camp custer about enough considering we're not gonNA see nearly enough of him Jin's is bother is glorious Jin's father best father on lost? He's the best I'll I'll I'll counter. Not only that best human online in contention intention to get to become like an angel investor in down the hatch. He's very much well. I don't know how much he's going to be able to invest in down. They've lots of fish will be fed very comfortably. I believe it's going to be great. Yeah definitely top contender for best daddy on lost is a low bar to clear. Low Varta clear. Mr Paik is certainly not clearing it. He's GonNa bashes ashes head on the bar but he's not even really going to try and clear it he's going to tell Jin. Why would you marry? Why do you WanNa marry my daughter Ginny? And he doesn't even looked up at him. That's the very first line we hear from Mr Paik. He is not even taking the time to look this guy who supplanting himself in front of him in the eye and intern. You see that Jin Jin just keeps his head bowed most part of his first line as well which again one of the things that I really love about. The Jin and sun flashback and it sort of ties into the saieed flashbacks as well L.. Is that lost really thesis statement about how you know you make assumptions occupationally or based on people's images. That might not necessarily be you what you expect and what I feel like. It's so great to hear from the Kwan's perspective insights perspective are that they're also cultural images That we might not initially expect from certain characters that have been defied in some way shape or form and this is just a great reminder of you know the Korean culture that can exist this idea of honor the idea of you know the father sort of being the head of the family even in two thousand four when a lot has happened. And we're sort of in more modern times and we see it here where Jin essentially has has to go through Paik about everything which is going to really lead him down a really dark deep rabbit hole. He's GonNa ask Jin. What does your father think about this? I hear he's the best engines orange. It's my dad's dead. He's not he's alive. He's thriving and Mr Paco's questioning. Jim Bishop Jin says no ambitious. I want to open a restaurant. I'm going to open my own hotel one day but Mr Pai kind of like gets him in like a catch twenty two where he was like all right. Well you would do anything for my daughter. Does that mean you would work for me. NJIT yeah totally. And then Mr I felt for it why would i. Why would I give my daughter away? A man who sell systems so easily in in here comes Jin Soo Kwon with the answer very quickly he replies because she is my dream Sir in. ooh What's the Gen may not be the Best Daddy. I know that there are there are some questions about that. Wow what a romantic mandic. What a great line because she is my dream Sir and Mr Paik per for all of his cold hearted energy even he stands up? It's like wow so. That was good. That was really good at. He stands up and he shakes gin-san. He's he's all the way on the Jin Soo kwon of it all now and you also see the smile on his face. I broke through that cold hard exterior like I finally have permission to capitalize on my dream but he has no idea what he got himself into and the effect is not going to have on him but his dream as well in the form of Sun. Yeah maybe at this point Mr Pai recognizes that Jin he's like this guy's heartbreaker he might literally be able to break some hearts for me if I hire him. Let's let's do. This is interesting because I have some thoughts about that. But it'll it'll we'll save it for later on in the flashback. Back all right. So let's get back to the island we're gonNA pull in our. I sound just to set the scene. We're going back to Jin. He's on the beach. Basically everybody's on the beach son is on the beach each and son is like in a in a two piece bathing suit and she's about to go swimming and Jim doesn't like it and he's GonNa he's GonNa let her know that in. Everybody is going to be informed as as well and then Michael is going to try and do something about it and that's not going to go so he's getting old total go. Yeah we should do something. What should we do up what was going on? I just walked up. Started often are again. Hey Oh Off I don't want you to put your hands on a one more thirty Komo smash. Yeah no no. Metallic clangs Saieed has taken personal gym yet to learn about that. It's still sounds it. Sounds like it's smarts. That's that's son. Smacking Michael in the face for trying to interfere with the domestic dispute. And it's so interesting because if you think about the timing is what like there is a pregnant pause where these soon to be pregnant woman a slap Michael and the look that she gives. Michael is very much like not a look of hurt but a look of warning the him as to be like. Stay away from this I I know what I'm doing. Stop trying to button and I do wonder Josh Michael. There's a lot of questionable things in this episode for all the stuff we've all. The high praise gave to Michael Michael Dawson as a tragic character. A few episodes back not the best light for Michael This episode. Not The best firelight for him as well. Why do you think he it decides to step in here especially when the very last time he really talked to Jen was hey you stay away from me and my son? Yeah I mean. I don't think that it's a top to bottom a Failure for Michael in this episode. I understand where he's coming from here. Where like he knows son secret? He knows that son speaks English. Knows that she speaks English and Jin doesn't know it because there's obviously obviously something not great in that marriage and I think he sees her acting the way he's acting. Michael probably has some sort of feelings for Sun at this stage of the development element of the show. so He's stepping in. He's trying to do something right. He's very triggered by Jin at this point and he realizes like Oh yeah I this is not my thing like I should not be involved in this at all but I also to to defend Michael a little bit. I think he's a great moment with his son. Later on in the episode I agree I just think maybe a wild wild goose chase of it all goes negates all that. Yeah maybe maybe a little bit some of it is not so great But I think that that's what's going on with Michael as it relates to son and certainly son in a in a little while will explain why she did what she did to Michael but we go from from from that scene we go from the slap we go to the caves Jin with son and she wants to know he wants to know what's going on with Michael and she insists nothing is going on on and nothing will go on so you know so. She's right I'm trying to remember obviously like I mentioned before we're going to have this story line later on. Where son has an affair with her English Tudor and Paik finds out about it sends Jin to you know deal with him? He does his Jin like not non violent method Ed but sort of doing everything but outright kill him causes the guy to kill himself because he thinks that Jin's the angry husband. Do we remember. Does Jim know about that because if he does I could also see his feelings here of like. Hey she has you know had feelings for other men once before what's the chance of me being cuckolded once more. Yeah I don't I don't know I think that he I don't think that he knows I don't think that he has any sense of it. I know that he's he's going to go due to the person whose name I'm forgetting. J. J. A. is the first name but I think I think that he's go to him for reasons. That aren't that are related to the affair. But he doesn't realize that I think the only take does right right right so I don't don't think he knows that so I don't know that he knows to suspect her of something with Michael necessarily other than like. Clearly he's got is brain he could sense. They are definitely. We had interactions together like he doesn't know their language but he knows body language. Exactly exactly Jen's very good speaking of body language. Let's do another flashback Lou. The the wedding day who wedding day as gene is going to Show up and she wishes that his father had lived to see this engines as I'm sure wherever he is proud of me and not untrue not untrue untrue and she wants Jim to button her up and instead he kisses her shoulder as do. I have to say who la La this is a very you very nice moment between Jenin son and especially considering that the very first thing we saw Jinju in the pilot was tell button up. You know like make sure you're completely. We covered from head. To Toe. Here is very much the opposite. I think just really shows the discrepancy. Between you know the comfort he feels what son in his private life in that portion of time versus is an a very alien situation like this and also on their relationship is at an all-time state of tension that she covered up as possible in front of everybody else whereas maybe hey behind the curtains he has a sort of a different sentimentality. It's really nice to see them on their wedding day. Like this because up to this point it's been so tense between Jin and sun and that's mostly going to the color that we're that we're painting with when it comes to these characters for a little while and every moment of of sentimentality between the Kwan's is is enjoyable but especially especially at this stage where we just haven't gotten a lot of it. I really loved seeing the scene of the two of them on their on their wedding day. Do I have to say so. Jen's going to tell her like okay so there's no honeymoon. I got to work for your dad. I gotTa go through management training. I gotTA become Mr Manager Just manager got six months of that and then once that's done we're going to go on the honeymoon and and in the meantime here's a flower from your own bouquet and this will suffice. It's Jen look man like I know that the flower thing. It's kind of your thing but like you can't just pluck a flower from her own bouquet and expect to score points. I don't know I think it's sweet. I think it's a nice different bouquet. Now I can go run out into the Bush hold on. Let me clip you. Something like oh ruined bouquet man like I don't think son cares at this void of I think tickets more so it's not really adjust as much representation to her of like. Hey you know this is who I am. You know. I'm I'm here. Fight literally and in the form of you know what you're gonNA carry down the aisle and what we're GONNA leave down the aisle carrying and hopefully throw to the next person You know I'm always going to be here for you no matter what even if I am away for six months even even if our marriage has become loveless at a certain point and I think that's another really interesting reason why he ends up presenting the flower when they're eight one five counter is him just sort of setting adding that reminder of like yes we've been through a lot but I'm still that guy that did give you that white work it all the way back in the day when we were standing on that bridge together After that party it's just like I. I think it's just a nice touch down. A symbol of their love through these times through the ups and downs are well. Let's go back to the island Let's go back to Sun and Michael. Let's go back to a sound. Michael Bloom as we are going to hear. Son Explain why she smacked Michael. What that that was all about? My sorry. Don't worry I stuck. My nose didn't belong so me you must understand understand. You gotta get this finish so I can get my boy out of here and take them home and I slapped to protecting you for what you know what is capable of stomach problems. Sure you don't know what he's capable of level beat the crap out of a guy and and do that to save his life. Come home and I'm GonNa mad at him. It is interesting. I just didn't see didn't stick around in the bathroom after long enough to know he was going to cry. Yeah I mean it's so interesting in that what she's saying about Janus sort of like I feel like if Jin and sun had conversation he would say that about Paik to of like. Hey I'm protecting you from your father. You don't know what you don't know what he's capable. It's like a chain of protectors and this episode particularly deals a lot with the theme of miscommunication. Obviously quite literally with the language barrier but also even between characters like Gin and son in terms of you know what they sort of cheap hidden from one another on the note of Michael going back to him for a second like like he really doubles down of like look knows where did belong. All the matters to you right now. Is Building this raft to get us off the island. Do you think this incident like at all made him double double down on this or do you think. Just Hey. Let me get back to this cold water though cold water cold water on the whole thing like they want to try to throw on the roth before it burns up. I think it's cold. Water on whatever's going on with son yet and I think that's I mean if we're going along with your theory of like hey maybe Michael Does have some uh-huh in that you know slightly doused fire toward son. The fact that she rebuffed him so much in that moment would make him be like well. There's absolutely nothing for here for me. Now oh any possible inclination is completely gone. Let me work on this raft. Ace App Yeah I think I think so. This is not great. I gotta get Outta here with Walt. This place is crazy. He's not going to deal with this anymore. Jin's not gonNA deal with this anymore either. He's getting some alone time. He's at the golf course. Just wailing on on. What's he hitting is he's just sitting? Is Eating Golf balls and I think he's hitting rocks. I think and maybe JIM DOES NOT HAVE A. I'm probably not someone who honestly digging during his upbringing has played a lot of golf. But you have to feel like that damages the clubs a bit and I feel like clubs or in a short supply but I I really enjoyed the scene. And we're going to see this in the next couple episodes Josh I completely -pletely forgot about the Jin. Hurley dynamic post urgency like. I thought that was it in terms of those two characters for a little while. But it's really interesting interesting. How Hurley formed a weird relationship with him at this point? We're at least you know. They made a bond to a certain extent and Hurley is the one that goes to check in with Jin to make sure that everything's okay. I don't think that they would be as bonded. If Jin ended up peeing on Hurley's foot I think that they both would have just been really weirded out around each other and and I don't think they would have talked much. Yeah I think definitely would have kept their separate orders. Not really look at each other and no I I I never liked. I never peed on. Hurley's foot drink But he comes to GIN in. Try Sea Urchin. They have more paying an on. He's brought some fishing poles. It's come on. Let's go relax. Jin's not talking to him and who is like all right you want to be an outsider. That's your business early. He doesn't know what you're doing. You can't hear he doesn't understand what you're saying getting. Obviously he understands what he's saying he just wants to be alone and also. Let's remember that Jen wants to be an outsider from remember. The last time he felt he was part hard. The group ended up getting slung with Iraq and got knocked out by. Ethan was railing against the group at that point. I think he's wanting to feel like an outsider for quite a portion of time because he feels like the communication barrier and just you know him suffering bodily harm at the expense of others not necessarily worth him investing his time at the group. Yeah I think Jin's journey towards feeling comfortable around. This group is a is a fascinating one and we were going to get major strides in that direction by the end of this episode. That he's going to join the raft team you know he's it's GonNa be part of the RAF squad you know. He's not a rock God but he is a Roth. God You know and he's going to. He's going to slowly start warming up to certain people or at least he's going to be around around other people more indoctrinate him deeper into the group to the point where I'm pretty sure when Sawyer ends up focusing ham later on like he doesn't sleep. been the caves does he. Does he like fall asleep on a tree in the middle of the jungle. Oh Man I think that's right. Yeah Yeah that's going to happen. That's crazy talking about like team beats versus team. Cave gyms like nope. I'm a free agent. I'm just GONNA I'm just GONNA sleep out in the jungle. I'm sure it's totally fine. I think at that point too. He's like oh no I think they probably we also burned the thing so he's trying to hide out We'll get there in a few moments Let's go to. Let's go check it on site and Shannon They're talknet we watch talking knots. Side wonders how she knows how to tie perfect bowling not apparently because she dated a sailor. He's that's better than what I'd I'd been thinking. I was worried that you're a spinster with a very overweight aunt so very sad image That's funny funny. Sassy saieed again. He he is out. But I Shan't encounters like fifty fifty shades of Shannon with. Hey you know what maybe we could if I had you in a bedroom with a little bit of rope Saturday night out of it and maybe we should get some rope. Spend a Saturday night alone together and see what happens inside is like yes. Yes yes listen I do not want to. You know draw awesome kinks where there are none. I I'm casting no aspersions whatever these to want to do you. You go for it but I can also times just get it done saieed built you know a budding romance with Nadia while she was being tortured. I'm sure rains might beat something that he's linked to this idea of romantic affinity. It just Nazia. Maybe that's that's it. That's it Anyway that's GONNA lead sites a boon and a little while but we're not quite there yet. Meanwhile we're GONNA go to Michael. He's at the raft. He's talking to wall. You'RE GONNA love New York Man. The flat iron building. Then that's going to be the best thing you've ever seen. It's like the fight. Aren't bill very cool. That's your first thing that you talk about with New York also. I'm pretty sure what's it's GonNa blow away like a human kite when he gets the flat iron building. That thing is like a wind tunnel. Yeah it's like. Oh and a few years. It'd be near easily. Get some good. Pete's there's a Lukes lobster and they're cool area. I like the idea of Michael is human yelp heavy good. He probably knows that bigger to wall doesn't really want to hear about New York right now. He just wants to play with Vincent as we know. Walt is not really keen on the idea of New York. I let alone anywhere. That isn't the island to the point. He is going to. I don't know if he's going to give Michaels yelp reviews Zero Stars but he's certainly GonNa Torch them online at the various. Yeah he's GonNa flame literally a Jackson GonNA come to Michael. He's very impressed with the progress. They've got the bamboo debt game. They got fuselage cabin. Got Storage bins. It's really coming along and Jack wants to Michael the heads up that there's a lot of people talking about who's coming onto this thing with you. Who is coming with you besides flipper here and Michael Michael Says I've got room for four people? There's one open spot. Which means obviously Michael going? Obviously Walt's going who's person number three and here comes James Seems Brick and Ford Sawyer. Himself bought a ticket on the TUB. Gave them a cable for a Halyard for the mast. good thing. I'm a saver. Oh Not Spender Doc. It's what Sawyer Tells Jack. Yes but a fiscally conservative Sawyer was able to benefit from here with his savings account of objects all right so we really got into the psycho analysis of Sawyer last week. Josh given the events of outlaws why do you think Sawyer was so adamant to be one of the first spots on the raft addict. I think he wants what's the get out of here. I think he's he's gotten pretty much everything that he's able to get out of this thing. He got spooked by the bore in the jungle. I think he's also spooked by the coincidence. For instance with Jack. I think that the events of last week's episode have made him start feeling feelings and I don't think he likes that. So this places places dangerous for him. It's what it's becoming. This is a place where he's like actually having to get to know people someplace where he could only con them so much. Kate has carte blanche launch. You know so his stashes in jeopardy exactly it's like the thinking man's being like can't get anything from my store if I'm not around exactly so I think that he's just ready data to rip on ad here why I also wanted to you know. Obviously he realized that he was projecting hibs onto the bore when it came to exacting revenge. Maybe maybe he realized that. Okay my method to you know be able to sleep soundly at night is not to take it out on people and objects on this island. I need to get the hell Outta Gosh. Why can get back and you know find my piece by actually making good on the the the the real McCoy self? I wonder if he thought you know it's I can go around. Shooting bores all my all this time on the island to help quell my morality. I really need to get out of here and you know. Make good. That hibs pays as for what he just got to take on the T. One thousand All right so cates with Sun She doesn't like how Jin's been treating her. I I really think is a very interesting perspective especially knowing what we know now of Kate where what Kate did was say. Hey this is a very toxic slash abusive relationship and she. She took action. She Killed The guy she did her own torching and burn down a house. Because of it I could imagine why she speaks to Sun here in this way and to see them sort of foster a close relationship as well. She's run the only other people besides Michael who knows some secret but she's really confiding her being like hey listen I i 's sort of have a sixth sense for when things are going wrong in the things are going wrong in the homestead and I'm sort of getting a sense of that between the two of you. Do you think that when Kate gets off the island at the end of the series. She's going to help raise jeon because she was close with son. She knew John. John was friends with Aaron Erin. Kate has is not gonNA be errands. Mom now that quakers back this is just like step in for Sun. WanNa make that official. That's going to be a little tougher right because I feel like with Aaron wasn't 'cause he's just going to get arrested right well that and also it also wasn't it just a matter with Aaron wasn't a matter of like you know her saying like Oh yeah I take biological logical custody of him. Jeon is back in Korea and certifiably once Jin and sun's passing has been announced Mr Paik and his his wife are the ones that will be taking care of John and good luck with Kate. Yes throw throw kate and Sawyer and miles and Richard Alpert. ADD HAD MR PAGAN Y. You don't WanNa mess with us. We could talk to ghosts. Maybe that should be lost season. Seven is like they they take on the court. Yeah I like baking the courtrooms definitely. What we're that'd be interesting? Because then they can talk to you all like the people that pay killed and try to like make him guilty of all the various murders. He's committed behind the scenes. Mu Like it. We're going to get a little a bit more of a peak at that pretty soon pay at a peak at that son is going to say that genucel tell me how beautiful he was so tender he was different back then. That's why I haven't talked to him about how I can speak English. We don't know what changed him and then people were running. People were screaming raft is on fire and everyone's woods berry upset. We've listened in on this already at the start of this podcast. Michael's vary upset. Wall is they're just like kind of look on your works and despair Walter White Ozzie. Van as this is obviously something that he did he set this thing on fire and what like is trying to fix it. Yeah because it's like buyer's remorse immediately right like he's like Oh shit. What did I do dad? So mad stands. Come on do your thing. I thought that it was supposed to get it everywhere. It's spreading fast enough. He's trying to fix it everybody's arguing. Mike was really insistent that this is Jin Hee saying the Sun. Where the hell lizzy everybody's trying to get Michael Back off? Kate tries to get Michael to back off Jackson. Michael Persists Charlie and soy are on board with Michael. Everybody seems to be really Antigen Antigen here. Jack has list. Just 'cause you fought with general your doesn't mean he tried to burn your wrath but then we go to the caves and Sun shows up in. John's hands are covered in burns. Earns and learn how to get converted. Sounds like you did it. Why did you go straight to get us off the island in? Just Martha's right after it goes Michael. Yes it's a job equals Jin Michael. If only to get near the beach really would've been trouble. Yeah this is I really leave again. A lot of connective tissue between this house of the rising sun and a big theme that exists across. Both of these is the rest of the castaways. Basically accusing Injin of something he didn't do his intentions weren't necessarily what they think. They are. Based on just the way he comes across obviously house of the rising sun. It's Oh my God. He wanted onto. beat up Michael because the maybe racist intentions. Or maybe. Because he's been A. You walked in on his wife accidentally sunbathing quite literally this one. It's more so like Oh. He burned the raft down so therefore we must start the witch hunt against Jin. I just think it's really interesting because Gina someone who at this moment cannot speak for himself self condo. What he has done who cannot speak up to this moment of the fact that she is serving as a translator between everybody and Ham so he sort of is like off on an island calendar on his own defenseless and his tactic is essentially to both ostracize themselves and lash out? Yeah yeah he's not. Happy is unhappy man Dan Right now. He's like is trying to help. And you're just talking about Michael. Yeah I I would have been interesting to see like where the timeline is in all this As well was genuine the first people to the raft tried to put it out got burn and then ran back to the caves. Did nobody see that from our core group. Is that why they accuse him immediately. Yeah I think so I would say so I think like maybe he was there and then someone saw him. Rose Like O.. J. Dinner is like Oh shit I did it. And then he runs away. That could make some sense to me or maybe he just like burns his hand so the first thing is like I got to go back to the caves and wash him off. That water is sterile. That's the water to US although he could've just rented the ocean. If you wanted to do it quickly yeah I mean I also wonder I guess the raft is down by the beach right. So that's where everyone was dashing from the caves down to the beach that seems like a pretty big height doesn't slip it's a SCHLEP. It's a bit of a Schlep. They're all great runners. The characters have lost. They're going to show that throughout the course of the series considering how much running they do the jungle but damn they're going to invest in like a cross country team meet after all this if they were able to omit sprint quickly from the caves down down to the beach and back again without like beating a sweat all right so let's go. Rhino flashback. Jin speaking of not quite beatings yet. But we're getting they're gonNA come to pay. He's upset about something that happened with this machinery in Mr Prints like Oh. Don't worry about the machine man. You're you're good you're doing great. In fact act I want you to be my new special assistant. I want you to go find me this guy. There's this guy's got a really cute dog and a very cute daughter that changes changes in size the payroll and I want you to go to them and I want you to tell them that I'm unhappy. I am displeased the easiest and so like okay. That seems easy enough and he goes. This is house is the secretary of environmental safety young and he shows up he says. Hey I'm injin and the guy's like Oh Jin and he's like all right. Well I'm here to deliver a message for Mister Peres. Ou Don't do that please. It just hours please. Not In front of my daughter but then my daughter WHO's watching Hurley. Get Arrested on TV. He just yes. There's Hurley in the background around. We're going to get to him next late. which is really interesting? I don't know how that makes Korean News. I don't know why that was such a global news. Because he's this huge lotto winner right like so. My bigger question is how does nobody on the island no hurley is like I feel like more overall not looking on TV during that during that one week. No one's been watching TV. TV Hurley should be international news. Somebody on that island should have known who Hurley is. But I guess not I guess before we move forward with the Bobo of it all I I just WanNa go back to the The special assistant promotion because again if we're going back to the online here there. I believe from the portion of events we see indio. SEE coming up in season three right before this happens is when Jen's mother the prostitute tries to blackmail cam or at least approaches son and says. Hey give me money or al.. You know I'll say you know who I really am. And that's going to obviously disparage Gen and his father and Biscuit Bruin in his professional career son Goes Mr Paik behind. Jin's back and says hey just say no. This is what's going on. Can I borrow some money to pay off and pick says shore but just just so you know to pay me back. Jin's going to be indebted to me for quite some time right so my I'm I'm pretty certain that this promotion only essentially essentially came because now that pick knows that John Really owes them something obviously heels concerned that he gave him a job in the first place but now he really does. Oh Him considering that he is essentially essentially loaned him money without realizing it is when he's like okay. This guy is GonNa have to work for the money. I just slept out for him. Mr Pigs sucks oh completely lately. Garbage garbage person. I'm trying to figure out like who is the more burns. The in comparison Hamer would more in terms of just evil rich men now. I mean they're both with up there right. They're they're they're both lacking a true smithers though yeah. I think that he has multiple smithers. It's not like Guan ICONEX. Smithers for either. I think the man in the white suit I guess that Jin is going to. Let's say life is but that's the closest we. We don't really know many associates. That guy is a bad ass. That guy is cool. I like I like him. He's great they. Yeah Jin's GonNa go and he's going to deliver the message guys very happy with the message because it's literally just a message. WJR wants to find a way to apologize and so he takes his dog from his daughter literally like rips. The dog from his daughter's ars hands and give Jen to take my dog to championship breed. It's incredibly valuable. Take the dog. You have to take Jake. The dog and I'm intrigued by this. Does he saying that to like say like Oh this is the value of the dog is trying to assume that general sell. The dog will just get past. I think it's like do whatever you will the dog but the dog is valuable. Means a lot to my kid. Obviously to me. Obviously take the dog and that is how Bobo came into the Kwan's life. I wonder bopha felt so sad that he shrunk down for time. There's a there's a beefy Bobo from the last time. We saw him from again for connecting this back to house of the rising sun when we have jen. Put the bowl in the bucks. It's quite a small little pup. Sebastian medium-sized Bobo. Not going to be the largest size but I think compared to the earliest time we track him there's a little bit of a basically scrappy doo versus a teenage H.. Scooby Doo here of. Let's let's come up with our own version of events that makes everybody look a little bit better Jin before the scene cuts away says to the guy. Look I'm not gonNA take your this. Is your kids dog. You keep the dog and so he leaves and then he's driving ways like and that's August. Really cool aw probably get a dog. I really liked that breed. Until he finds a puppy. And that's Boko and so. This dog isn't Popo. It just inspires Jin to go out and find Bobo and give Bobo to Sun all right. Here's a data gin not a dog. NAPPER universe here's a different version. So we have. He's a secretary for environmental safety right. Maybe the reason why pay is so interested in him is because byong-hong has perfected cloning technology and he has this this new edict to clone trees in order to you know make a safer greener environment and he tried it out on his dog. And so we have double Bobo. So we have papa vocal double double and so they said look. I have a dog to spare here and it's exactly the same dog as that way. His daughter is still happy. He's not a terrible father. Other and Jan gets the exact same dogs that there's a slight defect in. This dog may shrank. But he's a little smaller. You know like the DNA has degradate it. Just a little bit no major malfunctions forms of immunity or jeans whatsoever. It just makes it seem a little bit smaller. And that's why we have they different type of Bob. Hope to and that's who son gets all right. I'm down with that Bobo to in the household. But just bruce implicity sake. Let's just call him. Bo-bo I think is yeah. We'll say we'll do like bopha. Impo prime bopha prime alright. So that's the origin story of Bobo back on the island side's GonNa come to boon keun and he says i WanNa talk to you about Shannon. It's very possible your sister and I are GonNA become more than just friends. In fact we were just talking about tying each other up on a Saturday. Nice Nice and Boone's like okay weird cool you want my blessing for that or what insights. My hope is you won't object. This is a courtesy. I'm I'm not asking permission Pretty pretty pretty solid stuff from from because when he doesn't get that from boonies like yeah. I just wanted to let you know Narmada here. It's like yeah okay. Well you don't get the permission saieed. I don't think is scared of anybody in this group which I think you know really inflates his Braggadocio Braggadocio. But I guess just the way he approaches these situations like even when somebody gets up his face in the last couple of episodes. He's like Ah Yeah you might hit me once but you're really not going to kick the piss out of me because you know I can take you down like I just given his own history and his own abilities. I really don't think that he he feels that anybody is a huge fright or a huge threat at this point which allows them to approach Boonen basically be like. Hey I'm just doing you. I'm trying do you a solid. I'm not necessarily you know pulling a gin here and supplanting myself in front of you waiting for a handshake to confirm that you and my sister are Mesnier. Sister can can do stuff. I'm just saying. Hey Broder Bro. Look out for this and yes bro. Pro The bro Code and look look good is a little callus here by saying like. Hey just you know like Shannon uses guys once. She gets what she wants. She'll move on when she does. Don't take it personal but the thing is again knowing what boone has gone through very recently it make sense from his perspective right because what he's describing is literally just what happened to him. Sure with Shannon so it would make sense why yes. Maybe you know from what we're seeing in the way that boone singer two different perspectives. But considering boone is is coming from and how he's seen Shannon approach guys both in her own life throughout the past few years that have really down his bank account and how he she literally approaches which is relationship in Sydney then promptly said. Let's forget about it. Let's get on this plane and never talk about it again. Let's treat it like early. Jenn what's repeating on Hurley's foot. Yeah I think it shows at least where he's coming from Even if it's you know the the most welcoming decide speaking of unwelcomed the announcement the next day Jin we've said he's like sleeping out in the jungle. He's on his own. He's got into a fight with son does wanted man because the stream and here come absorb kicking him in the face. Kicks Him in the face as you messed up my ride chief Yeah Sawyer right in the face for all the for all you know the really fun opening up that really locked up safe. That is the Great James for that we saw in the last episode. It is locked up tight in in this one. We are unfortunately back to like I eight episodes Palace a-hole Sawyer in this episode because it's only chance of getting off the island has been temporarily destroyed and he is taking taking no prisoners like he's going to say it's now straight up with flies. Yeah that's what he's GonNa say as he's walking through the jungle in a little while you're scared aren't you. Don't you understand scared. He says if if you're not you'RE GONNA be Bruce Sawyer this is bad and this is all bad this classic Sawyer though. And that's it. It's parts lawyer night. It's it's him putting up a front while simultaneously. I think there is a bit of like hurt. That's contained there that is causing him to lash out so because he's very emotional in this episode as well while other a few spats back and forth between him and Jack and I'm saying thank God for Jack In this episode where he keeps telling the story to shut up and keep his mouth out of this because solar just he. He really is fanning Michael's flame throughout the course of this episode. It's sort of basically team raft versus gin at this point of like. Hey like you said you busted on my ride. You guaranteed not too. I had a guaranteed chance that prevented you essentially sent it up in flames. And now you're GONNA take revenge for it by any means possible. All right so side is gonNA come to Shannon and she's setting up a tarp. She says she's completely destroying it. And it's like I'm sure you'd be fined to build it on your own and Shannon very quickly sauces out like okay so you talked to boot. That's cool boone's like told the gotten in your head is being real boon hole and so she's going to storm off looking for Boone and that actually saves is the sound number three through a lot of the episode of these sounds. Were saving towards the end here. This is the sound number three. This is going to be Shannon on the search bourbon. But she finds somebody else instead Kroth. It's gross you'd into mean where is he. What do you mean you don't know you tour like Jungle Pals Surrey? I haven't seen him well if you do see him. Tell him to keep you stupid mouth shut. And here's some things to say he can leave site out of it and come say in town how my business you like him. What serious because if you do like him? What's it got to do with your brother? You're grown woman. Sure you can yell at Boone till you're blue in the face but all you're doing is giving him what he wants. Stack your attention. Everyone gets a new life. On this island Sham Take Time Start Yours he goes full Sitcom Dad Josh full. TGIF with like taking the seat. Let's talk about your problems. I'm sorry Michelle. I really shouldn't have said that I didn't know that that was going to upset you so much. Yeah well listen Danny Tanner Santer would have just played with the side of the block dig into all full squad with blood onto his elbows. I don't know who does who does lock map onto the full house. Dad's maybe a little bored Joey Gladstone. See doing a ranger Joe. Yeah well within orange in his mouth the greatest guy I was gonna say like but knowing lot like like Mr Bush chuck with like embezzle is money and run away with his girlfriend or something. You say yeah I dunno talk lock with good advice for Shannon. Maybe should move on from Boone. It's all that boone want. How much is this? Because lock wants to actualize Shannon and help her grow and how much which is it. Because he wants to get her off Boone's back so that he can have boone all to himself so he can throw him in a plane and get the plane off the cliff in just a couple of days. Well I think it's a two birds one stone and lock knows how to shoot a couple of birds. So I think he's a very eas- it's very easy for him to do. I think that it's probably mostly leaning towards the latter I mean in hell. He did a whole pace induced hallucination for boone and let them loose in the middle of the jungle to try to convince them like put Shannon out of your life. I could imagine such as a really easy opportunity for him lots essentially. He's not hunting people but they have like fallen into his psychological traps a bit in terms of his manipulation. Where he's able to say? Hey look you could spend time with saieed and you know what screw your brother and if that makes them angry and just say more into my arms as we spend more time out in the jungle trying to crack. Open this hatch. Hey so be it just happens to be the Little bit of a fringe benefit. Screw your brother. Oh wait that's right. You already did all right. So we get that scene with Sawyer. Jin Walking walking through the jungle and that takes us into a flashback. Son has made dinner for Jin. Looks like a feast. It looks delicious. The phone is ringing. Cell Phone's ringing thing. He says you know what not GonNa pick no work tonight and then the house phone rings like okay. They're calling the House S- probably a big deal and it. It is a big deal. Because it's the the message was not delivered properly the clone the cloning station closed the factory disclosed David Tell them not to clone the trees and GIN and not deliver a damn message so now you have to send smithers to this house. It's a gin. And smithers are driving and smithers with his white gloves to handle a catch a popsicle putting the silence around his gun and he's terrified lungs. Keep the car running not going to be more than two minutes. Yeah I love when Korean baby driver here. You're going to drive the car into a river bank. That's going to be everything and she was like. Oh my God. This is escalating pretty swiftly. And at this point Jin has put together. This is an assassination my father-in-law's a terrible terrible herbal man and Jin Beats Smithers into the House and then beat the guy just goes on beyond and decides to Farkas them quite honestly early. I'm very surprised. Considering how cool and seemingly loyal smithers is when Jin does approach him and essentially say this guy's life by being like I got the message from. There's yeah that's okay I feel like Mr Paik would not feel that's quote unquote okay. Considering that he's got his life once I feel like twice. Yes he's going to learn his lesson but I think being dead is probably the surest way to guarantee this guy's gets pretty lucky that he didn't just get beaten in front of his entire family and they're just like murdered heard alongside his entire family. That's right it could've just been like a stealth assassination instead it's like a beatdown and then like a full-on assassination everybody but instead there's no gender could Jeb. The only people that got the poor Koi pond Jan.. Yeah the Koyo definitely gone. We lost the. I'M NOT GONNA. Oh No. No confirmed kills Coco. I'm not I'm not GonNa take any points away from the Koi pond all right so then we go. Jim Returns home. mm-hmm and we get the other side of this classic scene from house of the rising sun and so iconic and I think it deserves to be I heard so. Let's let's pull the number four Yeah you know about the Hunting Gua. It's not how when she can. Yes uh-huh All right so now that we've seen it from both sides. I guess now we can talk about this scene in fall because God I love this. It's so Oh love the choice to do this already. They're starting to flex with the idea of a flashback. And Look we're not going to go like super off the wall like we do with the season. Three finale in that game changer but even stuff like this sort of paves the way for things like the other forty eight days rare really. We're talking about perspective stories that occurred in the past but from a different perspective. Exactly and I just love the difference between this version and how slow rising son in this version in ooh in translation in that in the end the former. Jen looks just completely steely callous. Just like I had to do this. Because has your father told me too and he looks aggressive but here knowing what happened to Jan insurgency from his perspective especially breakdown in front of the Mirror one son leaves. He's at his breaking breaking point. He's probably writing some weird like adrenaline high from beating up young haunt and saving his life but also a sense of dread. Some Adrenalin in that like he now truly truly realize as what he has to get himself into in order to maintain a life with a person he loves so dearly and that has to be hard on anybody especially the son of a fisherman who never even want to get into this. And we haven't talked much about Daniel Day Kim's performance in this episode but considering just how aw little just by language barriers circumstances He he gets to do on the island he just does such a great job in showing Jin very very very small subtle emotional moments and I had to keep the clip of him silently crying to himself in the mirror when he finally looks at himself sees himself for who he is now. Jin Jin Soo Kwon is going to be now that he's working for Mr Paik especially after he's washing. The blood off hand is very like Macbeth. In my opinion the out damn spot of the office all he wants to but like the effects of what he did again even though he saved Gung Hans Life he is now permanently marked with having. I'm to do these absolutely terrible things and it breaks my heart to watch the say not only knowing what he's going through but the fact that son is so in the dark about all of this or you know so. Jen thinks that it's going to lead her to do some things that will eventually half make decision temporarily for her to leave him. Yes yeah it's just a great scene. I mean there's nothing else to add everything you just said I just cosign completely. I think like the inventiveness of this moment. In the flashback of a of showing us the the flip side of the coin and these are two of the only characters that like. We could really do that with up to this point you can do it with Mike on wall you could do it with Boonen Shannon to a certain degree but I think that there's just so much secrecy that's already baked into the Jenin son relationship that to have this this reverse image of what's going on with with Jin who up to this point has been depicted in a fairly monstrous light really humanizes him in a way. That's just brilliant. This kind of idea. Very prevalent throughout lost Just great to encounter here in ooh in translation. And we'll go from this sound to another. I believe we're GONNA go right into another sound as sawyer lawyer is going to Drop Jin off at the beach hike. That of a hike Michael who up to this point he'd been wearing like this. A Lime Green t shirt replaces with his classic Orange Shirt. They decided that orange is the better citrus. He's GonNa Orange. Is the new beat up shirt. He's GonNa Charge edged gin. And we're GONNA get Jin versus Michael Rand to in everybody's participation and Mrs can be a little bit different than it was before except for the gawkers who are still just going to be gawking. Gov Payment Amen calm down calm down and think about I do I take off. They do not admit yourself what he said. I arena said something to me if I call. I'd say again thank. You won't find. He's right Gotcha uh-huh it. It took Do you speak English yes. He didn't read the series viable. It would have given it a case. Everybody everybody's freaking out. Great Sound on quipped Paul. I love that moment where you're in Jin's head and you're hearing every English sounds like Kim. It's so interesting because from what I read. Apparently that's just the dialogue from the characters played backwards which is interesting considering that very peaks. But it's also not going to be too far from when Shannon sees walt talking backwards right push buttons ends by it. Yeah so even speaking outside of the Quanta of Josh what ass backwards logic is going on here with Sawyer and Saieed. I eat of logo guys. It's their fight. Let's just stand around in a circle and watch him kick the crap out of him. We don't need to step in whatsoever. Until like what like eleven episodes ago Woah Woah. We need to get in here. I mean like that didn't work so now they're trying to tact and also they've been on the island for a month and they're bored board. They're like all right. Let's get a fight by like this is going to happen. It's going to happen so as to what's going on Mike and Mike. It's Lord of the flies really early in his words are very pertinent. That like I'm very disappointed like like you said the gawkers are going to Gawk but like so many main character. Charlie stand around like a doofus with with his hold on just sort of like This is a fun fight. Like what are you doing. Your thing goes on a day to all things considered they've been fairly civilized for a pretty long period of time that if this is like one of their biggest events of like civilization is collapsing around us. And the way that it does. I think that the getting off easy like this is just one fight really at this point this is not. UFC lost in the octagon and is one of the stations reforming. I implore are hatchlings. Once again if you could please translate what Genesis two Michael because to paraphrase Michael. I would also like to know what he's telling him at this point like is he goading him on is he instead. You know just sort of talking talking down being like hey my wife will never love you. I'm very intrigued to hear what you said. Especially since he's not really comprehending what everyone else is saying to him as we hear from all the global old Gobbledygook from his ear perspective since he doesn't believe that people can understand what he's saying. Either it's more of a model. Ought to himself than really him. Trying to communicates something to everybody. All right so the secrets out. The JIG is up everybody knows that Sun can speak English and she starts translating Jin. Who is very taken aback by all this obviously more than anybody else and she's basically saying like He? He burnt his hands trying to put out the fire. He didn't run or he didn't do wait he he doesn't answer why ran which is not great but son says my husband is many things. But he's not a liar and Sawyer says well. How do we know you're not a liar? Looking at Jin Spacey. Query doesn't know that you speak English. Why should we trust you and here comes? Johnny Lock will look throw it to him with sound number six to be like the lone adult in the room to break this thing up. We know she's not covering for it because he he is. Why would you burn the raft? Everybody knows it's okay. It's personal but why take ed on our best chance of getting off the island. Why would anyone of US block attempt to get home? We're so intent on pointing the finger at one another that we're ignoring simple undeniable. Truth that the problem isn't here it's there they've attacked US sabotage. Dust abducted US murdered us. Maybe it's time we start blaming us and started worrying about them. It's not the only people on this island and we all know it. Josh said he was the adult in the room when I forgot to mention that he's like totally covering contracts with the fact that he knocked outside when he was trying to set up a radio signal to get them all rescued so he told police advertising with the flames at low awesome marine later on Josh. I think we've found locks live together die alone speech. It's a great moment. It's a great moment but and it's very quotable a bowl and we're not the only people on this island we all but it's it is on the false pretenses already at this point to you probably imagine it locked knows that Walt. Did this blake at least break up the fight. No I I'd like you said like the adult block into like the the room of kids horse alleged opportunities to is like if I make this speech. No one is ever going to think it'd be. John Locke he's expressing told us not to do that. I mean as as mature as lock. Sounds I do think that Sawyer saying how do we know that. She's lying lock simply responding because she isn't it in the most sound logic to start off your argument bills later on but like he's basically starts to speak with not or not but I think that you know it's like Knox Grit Shannon. Let's go well. The Mickey speech nobody will ever know. I think like you said this is a really interesting. Age is acknowledging the threat threat of the others. which we really haven't you know we really haven't decompressed like the Post Ethan stuff sands Charlie burying him in a couple of episodes so it's glad to acknowledge it? Even though he's also bercy his life in a manner of speaking going out into the jungle to work on the hatch you know leaving him susceptible to the others but if anything no matter where he's coming from at least that season the ability that's able to like LE- let these people not tear each other's throats out at least for this portion of time. Everyone sort of breaks up. Michael Grabs Walden pulls him away. Son Tries to grab Jonna but JEN is not having it whatsoever. He walks away. He walks away. Everybody breaks everyone's Bruins just agree to be unsatisfied about. This is the decision that everybody makes Michael's very upset. And he's like freaking out and Walt's there watching it all and this is where I get Mike. Mike Michael a lot of props here. That like rains himself in. He apologizes for having an outburst. He sits down in front wall is as we all have setbacks. God knows man. That's just life will start over. We're going to build a better raft. It's going to be okay. Wants to help. Because there's no doubt you can help and this is great fist-bump incredible progress rem Michael Dawson here. I think I agree and that earns a back a little bit of credit in my book. I think it also just shows Michael's character again. We talked a lot during special about how he might be one of the most tragic characters in loss but we we know about Michael. Is that in the face of adversity. He always sort of encounters things with a sense of optimism. It's not optimistic. Everything's GonNa get better. I mean he's a construction -struction worker. It's him saying okay. Well I have raw materials in my life. Let me build something better. Even if it's torn down I'm going to rebuild something bigger and at least before Walcott's taken there's I think there's a very distinct difference between who Michael is now versus. He's about to become. Yeah so I agree. I think that Michael leaves a better taste in our mouths from this scene alone. That had just ended with him leaving after the fight doesn't make up for him leading the witch hunt against Jin. I don't think so but I think it definitely. It helps at least as relationship with Walt. Where even though what may not necessarily want to visit the flat iron building? He does want to help his dad. Rebuilt the raft. At least all right. Michael Guide us through through through this next a little bit here because Sun and Jin. They're going to go back to the caves he's GonNa Start Moving to the beach. He's not talking to assignment treatment. Not An honor. I can't hear you. And she wants to know why he didn't tell her about not bring the wrath wooded. I deserve this when we stopped talking and this is when she's GonNa Start Screaming at him. I was going to leave you. And it's it's very upsetting stuff and I know that we've got sound pulled from here. There's also a flashback in here. How do you want to guide people through what we're about to get it? Yeah so this is essentially the island base stuff in the sandwich. We're going to have a little bit of fish in the middle with Jen and his father that I think I wanNA take down piecemeal but son does ask a question. She asks this Gin. Is it too late to just start over and I feel like it'd be proper to put in jeans response of it's too late followed by just the absolute heartbreak and music or sometimes times lack thereof. That comes when Jin both literally and figuratively walks away from sun for at least a portion of time but come back together during exodus part one but this is really going going to be The split of the Kwan's momentarily so this is going to be all the Quan related stuff going on at the caves. Both before. And after the flashback in my today by all got foil mobile estimated to talk. You still get so so you could. Yeah I was going to leave you. I was going to get away changed my mind. Maybe think that you still love me. The people who stuck two I do The the Quan- ship has been bird. John Aw they burned you build it. It'll be stronger yet but again. You're keeping secrets because Jin's whole mission now is I gotta get off this island so I can saved son. She doesn't deserve any of this. She learned English because she couldn't stand being around me. Because I've been a horrible person just like say that man like just talk guys. But they can't talk. Marriages complicated. Love is difficult requires constant maintenance much like a raft. And you know it's going to get us to some a good story stuff. It's also very sad to watch is very beautiful and lead to a really amazing ending of this episode. Yeah Sun Sun Going to English to say you know I was I was. He's going to leave. It was so I mean you engine. Kim is so frigging so good as well so good. You just hear the heartbreak in her voice. I know people ask like. Oh why did son go to English of Jim and understand it. But it's sort of I to me. It's a moment of frustration. Like it's not about him in that moment about her finally vocalizing it when yes. She's sort of been talking behind the scenes that interior decorator who was not an interior decorator. But really she hadn't told anybody that she was going to leave him in sort of like how she was swayed in staying staying when she saw him in that line and he flashed that white flour and she was suddenly reminded the man she fell in love with and I think this almost therapeutic for her to just sort of scream this into to the wind even if he didn't understand it and look. He wasn't listening to her in Korean. Why not just speaking English? She knows she'd definitely vote here. Her that way and I really like what you're saying. Yes again on the surface it could be like. Wow gene such an asshole. He feels so you know betrayed and pissed off that speaking English without him knowing that he had insights walk away from her. But I do think a lot of this is rooted in Jin speech to her in exodus about how he feels like. He's here because he's being punished being punished. And I think it's too late is not a reference to own. It's too late between us. I think it's too late for me exactly. I think it's it's like well I. This is my hell. I'm paying for the sins that I committed even if it was for a good cause for us to be together that doesn't matter in the eyes of whatever powers hours may be. I can't be forgiven for those sins so I need to separate myself for you. So that your you know your you are not dragged down by the wait the anchor that I am you need to be able to float on these waters and continue on. I am a sinking ship right now. No don't talk about sinking ships with Jenin saw. Yeah exactly. I was thinking freighter dive into the water sinking submarine. Yeah exactly. Somebody's thinking boats. So many bad things happen around boats in Jenin son Yeah. There's one time when they sail around to the statue in the beginning but then she has to kill somebody. Yeah that's great but it's a bad asthma. My son so at least. There's there's data additive icing on that not so tasty cake but yeah I mean it's it's one of those things it's so tragic like you said had they just hash things out in whatever language right there right there and you know I think Jin also making a lot of assumptions on on finding out. That Sun is speaking English of like. Hey if this is true what else is true. What else should she be keeping from me? I mean he's going to have the plan that we're about to talk about with his father of actually living in America with Sun. But you'd have to assume that if I'm gin and I hear that she came up with that plan on her own. On what ideas did she have for what she is going to do. And how does that not involve me like. I'm not GonNa say that anger and frustration is not involved in Japan's this decision here. I just don't think it's the main driver. Let's Talk About Jin's dad. 'cause this is the flashback. That's in the middle of the sound that we just play bridge in goes back to his father's fishing village. We find out that his father is still alive. Jin's wearing sunglasses. That are like the exact sunglasses I used to wear high school and I thought were so cool. Wow that was really early two thousands and he it goes through his dad. He's like begging for forgiveness and his dad is just the best daddy where it's like. Give this no way. You're the best all jed. It's so great to see you. What what a good world we live in my son? Did you could do anything bad at. You'd still be the past. God everything about you is so great gin. I'm just so proud out of you and I'm carrying. Invite me your wedding. How was it was great? Is again a pretty good job so happy to hear it. What's going on what's wrong? There's bad stuff have got responsibilities put. Nothing's more important than you and your marriage go to. La La's cool go go go hang out in north. Hollywood would go to studio city. Just go go to the beach wowed. La's save your marriage. Realize Quan was so adept in. La Culture. Alter I've been great you're GonNa love me. Picture next to the Hollywood sign is pretending to lift it up but relates executive thing. It was much like episode much. Imagine this episode in Sleigh should chip. Sad it's just the best later. Oh there's nothing like really serious to say other than like it's so refreshing the have like one good data on the one like really pure father figure on the show. There is some serious stuff to say. I think that Jin's approach to his father is so great great because I mean I'm assuming that to keep up pretenses. Jin is not seeing this man in a very very long time and that leads Jin to have the second breakdown of the episode where he cries writing from how ashamed he is just the fact that he had to obscure the truth about his father's. There's not come across in shame but like you said Mr Clone is just an all around incredible person I mean. Let's remember his backstory. Jane might not not even be his biological son this prostitute that he was knocking boots with had a child and left the child with him and Mr Kleiner erased him as if he was his own like the fact that he's still able to treat him with this amount of regard and love is incredible also to be said that. What Mr Mr Cuanto? Jimmy's yes go away and never see me again. That's crazy. I would feel like many parents were understandably be a little bit selfish and be like I. I can't have you in my life. You know I know that you would want to go onto a better path but if it means we never seeing you again. I don't know about that. But Kwan Mr clowns all about like listen you need to save your marriage you go and never come back like this is an incredibly charitable person. It might make one of the unfortunately one of the biggest doormats in the entire series but my God like he he should get all the points in the world like I just WanNa give him like an invisible point each and every week on down the hatch. I think this is the only time we see him EH. One more time one more more shot one more shot but I wanna give him just like a ghost point like an immemorial and he's not dead but just like watching how good of a person awesome Mr Quantities. Because he is the best he's King King of the Daddy's daddy king congratulate each round made of carp killed coy jetty King Kwan. For sure Just the just the best and I hope maybe this is what what's to be hoped mother who seems pretty great in Jin's Jin's father you'll but for a brady bunch area I am. Mr Paik is just this left. Oh and then Bobo can we. Tiger Boafo can hang out with them and they've got yon that's a happy ending for sure. Yeah and son gets a live on in the form of their father and mother. I love also great. This this to Boola Rossa concept comes back. It's been rearing its head for the most of season one but really comes back here. We're about to see it with site and Shannon Vocal Shannon vocalizing. Lock Todd her about a new life on the island. But even Mr Kwan is like you're my son. It doesn't matter what you've done and and sons also imploring gin this moment of you know I wanNA start back at the beginning and I think as much as Jennifer of taking his father's advice to run away in the moment once you've return that watched watched. La keep on keeping on to Albuquerque. Whatever the hell you WanNa do it does seem like from his own perspective? He can't move on. He's still standing outside that church with Ben Linus from that perspective. And that's what I love about that. Theme to is how much people take this concept of a new life you have someone like Locke who is really breathed into a new skin into a new set of lakes and really lived up to what he thinks that he the potential some. Kate is trying to make herself an entirely new person based on on the fact that nobody knew who she was before the island. But then you have someone like Janet who has a lot of moral attachment to why. He's in the situation that he's in. I'm going to see that from Hurley next episode while and it's really going to inform their actions and that they feel like why they're here is a direct correlation to who they were before going onto the island not not the opposition site and Shannon are GonNa make out I Kiss F K. I think I was going to say we had kate. And Sawyer locking leads but I think this is is the second F K between two main characters F F K between side and Shannon at the very least. She's tapping that as Anna Lucia would say we're tying pat and he says what's that for because everyone gets new life on this island. I'd like to start now. Get the ropes. Oh I can imagine how you doing. Bugs bunny like stands up in the air and his tails swinging around in. His is a habit. A habit of Melton puddle in Shannon collective all right so there Dayton. It's cute very cute all right. Let's talk to. Let's talk to lock and Walter going to have a conversation busting at the backgammon. So many games in this episode backgammon. Golf is back But Locke is going to rock and sock them robots with Jimmy. Michael Yeah Lock is GonNa come to Walt and and we're going to get we're gonNA find out who torched the raft Gotcha self-employment probably owes made anything. I told him I'd give him a test. One back in well awesome and I played dollars down at the beach. I think now loudly dark. Yep everyone's go dead cool no no. He's not good for you. You Mind I ask you something. Why don't you burn the raft? We'll uncle tell you must have had a really good reason. I don't WanNa moving moving places my whole life breath. I like it here. It to Walter started the fire. Why Oh aw why did you burn the raft? Your excuses at good enough. You Burn Your Dad's yeah you could see. I think he regrets it. It's your life like you said. He likes he threw anywhere in the world just moved to go see the plant building. You'll just move to New York and you'll stay there and you'll love it. You don't WanNa the move anymore so you wanna stay on the island. That has no kids. Maybe he wants to be the only kid. He likes the attention. Kevin mcallister. I made my parents disappeared. I made my parents and my whole family disappeared burning it. Here's a wall. We know ultimate the trajectory that he is going to end up coming back to the island. And we've talked about. How Walton may have the capacity to do to the weird electro-magnetic stuff going on over the islanders able to sort of transcend send space and time occasionally? Do you think it's possible that Walt knows that he's going to end up on this island and so the whole I like it. Here is maybe less about the month or so that he spends on the island more so like I know I'm GonNa come back here and like that so I might as well you know. That's this is where I wanNA spend my time because I know it's working I'm going to end up just like senses senses that this is his place. Exactly there's more to be done here. I like that I'm into that. That's good especially because lock responds. I do too which is very similar sentiment right. That's one reason why he keeps sabotaging the effects to get off the allergy and then simultaneously saying let's not sabotage theofanis islet. He likes surprise that locked as the state of wall. You WanNa know another secret. I knocked outside several episodes every time they play. Backgammon is just like a dish sash where they spilled the tea about all the stuff they've done. Yeah Yeah I think that'd be good locking walt. Have a talk show. Sounds like a good idea to be Also love seeing the great scene I really enjoy and like they said like it's been a long time since I mean we walk. DOC was teaching multi to throw knives a few episodes back but we haven't had a big back game and sash. I do love locked Okinawa. How UNCOOL HIS DAD is? He was thinking something very differently in the flashbacks in mocking up. We'll get to that in a little bit. The episode ends with a great montage. We won't play it right now. We'll close out the podcast with it. But it's this is one of the reasons why this episode is so great it's delicate by Damien Rice's playing Jin's GonNa come to Michael with like a ton of bamboo. He's going to say boat. They're finally going to start working together. They're going to work on the raft. Together Hurley's playing the CD player. We're GONNA see Shannon inside being very cute together. We're going to see Charlie with Clare. They're very cute together. The music's going to crescendo as son. Let's cover off. And she goes back into the ocean with her Bikini on now that she's free from from gin or at least you use able to express herself however she wants to right now and then the CD player eventually stops at a beautiful part of the song. And it's a it's a very. It's just a wonderful montage but it's also just another example of lost doing a great job setting its own self up getting ready for the next episode numbers where we're GONNA be talking about Hurley in his terrible luck. He's the fact that like the CD player runs runs out at this. Exact moment sucks but that's Hurley in a in a nutshell so they just they do a really really great job of setting that up here. I just love the ending to in translations translations so much. Yeah it sucks this is good and B R I p musical montages concerning the now we don't have federal literal soundtrack to make it. You know diabetic. But but the final song that we hear that Hurley. Here's is as he mentioned delicate by Damien Rice if you look at the lyrics. They're super interesting. They essentially they describe a relationship between the subject and the person that they're refer or the singer and the person that they're referring to about how you know we were very intimate in our private lives but You fill my sorrow with the words you borrowed and I wonder if that's sort of a reference to Jin's feelings towards Sadhana that you know hey you've taken words that weren't yours and you've been taking a a secret life with and despite US being intimate in our private affairs that's why we can't work out in public. It's a really interesting note to end on. Like you said we see a bunch of other couples coming together but son is tearing away the shroud of Jinnah sort of embracing her new freedom. Greenwich will be very remorseful in the next few episodes about her break up with Jin I would say break up. I guess they're schism at the moment. I also love this. CD player not running. Not only because like you said it sets a beautifully Hurley's earliest bad string of making his own luck in the next episode but also that was really the last connection we had to the modern world. And it's gone. It's dead Sawyers. Words about where Lord of the flies. Time now is super prophetic. We saw the act of it this episode and the way that people formed a mob against ends gin based on Miss Communications and now the last bastion the last connection to who they were before the island is now Ashton. Yeah Oh maybe that'll be the name of the other Bo dog mysterious third bulldogs moonshine on. But now that the the last connection to the modern world is now gone on their officially on the road and they're making their own society and does not exactly going to be the way things were in the real world to close lower once again. They're in the wild. They're tearing the wild. They're in the wild right and we are out of the jungle. We're GONNA go into our others section momentarily but before we do Mike. Let's take a quick moment to thank our sponsors for this episode of friends over at CBS. All access and the new season of Kevin Williams tell me a story and Mike There's so many great fairy tales that we've experienced growing up and I don't know if it qualifies as a fairytale but we just the spirit of the never ending story just makes me think about that. Great podcast we did once upon a time talking about foul core and a tray. You you an Arctic. What a great time? That was. Yeah really I think Michael could learn some lessons from someone like Falco or when it comes to you know how to treat a John Wall could learn lessons as well from a true in terms of. I don't know how to not destroy property. Yeah absolutely so. If that kind of fantastic fairytales details storytelling sounds interesting to you. Then I'm sure you're GONNA love Kevin Williamson's tell me a story which takes the world's most well known fairy tales and reimagined them as a dark and twisted psychological thriller. It's exploring an entirely new set of characters this season's going to feature three legendary stories. Beauty and the beast sleeping beauty and Cinderella streaming December fifth exclusively on CBS all access. It stars Paul. Wesley spent known for his role opposite. Ian Summer. Halder her the vampire diaries so a little bit of that a little bit to them so to carry out boss from the Matrix and Jessica Jones owns is also a part of this as Eka Darville also from Jessica Jones Matt Lauria Shadow to Friday night lights really great cast involved this. This new season was shot on location in Nashville which means original music. That's woven into the story. Speaking of beautiful music in Television Mike. You're not gonNA WANNA miss that here on. Tell me a story ory you sign up today for. CBS All access by going to CBS DOT COM slash post. You're going to get your first week of CBS. All Access for free and you'll be able to stream the new season of telling me a story starting to fifth so that streaming now. CBS DOT com slash. Post to get your first week of CBS access for free. All right my shall we get into the others. Yes Because I know what other number one is so I'm very yes. Yes yes and I am a two so the red sox stuff is Jack. A Red Sox fan absolutely absolutely. We've got a lot of feedback from people over over the last couple of days weighing in on my question is Jack Sheppard a red SOx Fan and this was a no brainer to everybody but me so this is great. I I love this learning something new about lost every time you go through. I'd always just assumed that Jack was a Yankees fan and was thumbing his nose at the Red Sox but I love. Jack is a Red Sox Fan. This is fantastic this from Spencer. Why who writes in and says after Mike's Debacle and the hearts and minds podcast? You didn't know it. A winner was in tennis terminology. I'm happy happy to say that Mike is Correct. When he's Jack Sheppard is a red sox fan and a self deprecating at that Kyle Murphy points to season four something nice back home Reject picks up a newspaper in the kitchen of Kate's house and reads the newspaper Article Yankees Blood. Red Sox in series sweep and Jack Says Damn a rod under his breath while reading the article so clearly. Jack is a Boston Red Sox fan and even in the lost encyclopedia. It mentions. Jack's pastimes one of his pastimes is being a red sox. Fan that's coming our way according to Daniel Brennan and then of course the scene in the Glass Ballerina where Jack sees the world series stories play. I'd always just took that as like a sign of him like seeing the world back home again never landed on me of him. Being a Red Sox Fan. Now it's going to land with so much more authority when we get there so I love it. It's great I'm happy to be wrong on this one. I'm thrilled to be wrong. Jack Sheppard is a red sox fan and maybe just maybe my wife will like him a little bit more now and listen now. It makes a lot of sense as to why Jack doesn't really understand the monster. He's used to green monsters. That's right yes totally different. The other number twos still stemming from last week comes from Eric Davis Stein. Who writes possible that it was not a bore that trashed sawyers camp and and peed on his shirt? God perhaps in retaliation for hitting a little too close to the mark in there. I never game. She could easily have been lying about the board tracks and Sawyer would it'd be none. The wiser. My alternate theory is that it was lock. Can't think of a plausible motive lock likes to play games with. Let's play a game wall. Let's play APR everyone stuff. You'd like to on fire. Let's put it out in a certain way. Let's get a game. I like to call secret EP. I'll make that in my head cat. And just because I did not earn complete redemption because I had quite a number of people coming after me for me giving lock L. V. P. Point last week for a creepy story. Yeah I think that that was not earned lock is that was great I love if he peed on Sawyer shirt. Yeah then then he on a board. That's messed up. That's messed up. That's messed up. What's go behind the scenes on ooh in translation other number three from the Ben Behind the curtain pointing out that yes in house of the rising sun? Jim Brings Son a puppy. But it's fully grown. By the time he comes home with blood on his hands here rec- jin got the puppy and he must have returned with the blood on his hands within a couple of days. Because Bobo clear we grew very fast. Well don't you worry Ben Martel and everybody everybody else. Mike and Ike cracked the case that one absolute cloning cloning facility like this idea that Jin picked up the dog just drove around for a couple of days. I didn't go home. I just had blood on his hands the entire time regretting what he did and then finally when he had the wherewithal to go home. The dog had grown up just a little bit other number four found in translation. I know that you had asked what a gen say. Michael during the fight scene. We've got a source on that Jin said I didn't start the fire when I got when I reached the boat was already ready on fire. Tried to stop it. That's what happened to my hands. We still have over. Reveal the winner of the Lindelof volume one but for the lindelof volume two. If somebody wants wants to record. We didn't start the fire with the lyrics of I didn't start the fire when I reached the boat. It was already on fire. Well I don't know I that was Casey Kasem would play that I get past his own screener. Yeah that's banned from the wand off which is on Yada for the Lindelof it can fly. That is that is super tragic because I thought initially that the way Gin was speaking to Michael is very like. I don't know it's very terse and almost very confident made it sound like yeah you you won't hit me like I know you like my wife. But she's mine but no he's legitimately trying to explain himself and Michael Just keeps on punching him. Yeah Yeah No. It's very sad very tragic story. We're talking about this week. Yeah but there's a dog in it multiple dogs according to our logic multiple dogs all right. Let's get into feedback in translation. Other number five some people questioning the person who's actually responsible for burning the wrath Fizi says that he had totally forgotten. That was walt. Who did it should have been lock? Eric Davis Stein ads. So locked didn't burn the wrath but why not indeed think he would burn the NEC's Raff not for the security guards. He hasn't hesitated to take extreme measures to prevent rescue before. That would help explain to me. Why walk like diverts the attention of everybody? Nobody as to who burned the raft and why he covers up for wall while he doesn't out walt. Maybe because he's not so mad about this is actually pretty great to go back to question about why it was wall to dinner and not locked. I wonder if we talked about this during special. If we SORTA put ourselves in the minds of these writers who did not know that Malcolm David Kelley it was gonNA shoot up go through a big growth spurt and summarily have to be written out of the show they were setting up all these things about walt being a not to normal kid. I wonder if this is a a part of it of like the Lanes Hill Goto to get what he wants. If he wants to stay on the island he'll burn his dad's raft Jen's hands to do so. I wonder if this was sort of a peek into an alternate characterization of Walt that we could have seen had he stayed on the island. Yeah I think that that could have been could been fun. There's there's there's a lot we we talked about the fake stuff not getting connected and that being a little disappointing just trying not to think too hard about what got left behind Walt. It's normally I don't get too upset about it but right now I'm thinking about can set other number six from Linde Steiner. How does John Auburn the raft? He'd be watched him do it. I I mean lock. Apparently like if he's not if he's not giving speeches to people he seems to just be staring all the time even when the wraps on fire university everyone's putting out except for lock he's just yes sir staring and watching it burn so he's also like pretty adept at reading body language. And I feel like Walter someone who's pretty easy to read so I can imagine that like he saw the way Walter was reacting. The Way Walters been reacting. Probably has been like we don't seem acting super super suspicious in between the big fight and the raft being on fire air so I can imagine that lock is pretty well onto him and maybe this goes to show how walt is not really given a lot of attention by the other castaways aside from Michael and lock in that maybe it was so easy to tell but literally nobody else cared or saw because they were too busy focusing on Jan other number seven Daniel Brennan asks us. What do we make of lock speech considering he knows that Wolpert the raptors he simply covering for his friend or does he truly think the others are a threat? I think that lock like there's probably an element of him covering for Walt and as we said maybe establishing some cover for himself but I think he's probably also like guys. Let's not forget that like there are other people on the island island and we've lost people to them. Like Steve's dead it's Scott Dude which one is it. I think there is an element of that. Like what's that. Take our eye off the price here and especially because like I'm going to be working on the hatch and so I can't be that involved in it so you guys really gotta stay on guard with this other thing. Yeah like I know that you know lock is going to wind up up becoming sort of like a corollary to Ben Linus leader of the others. He's going to have his own sort of involvement with them. But at this moment remember lock was the the big. Adt Security Guy. A couple of episodes ago who is really good at setting up all the garrisons and all the watches around the camp. He's clearly very freaked out by this. Even though he feels Dell's inherently connected to the island I still feel like he does fear the others like everybody else so I do feel like there is at least some sincerity in the speech is giving here a Phoebe nugent. wrote in about Jin's motivation. Other number eight to me. It seems like fear truly is the motivation behind everything. Jin does in the first season what what happened with the watch wasn't necessarily a question of honour. He was afraid of what would happen if he didn't deliver after fighting on the beach with son he seen looking at his watch again. Just after flashback of him telling Mr Paik that son is his dream the thing he is most afraid of losing is his wife the fact that he's afraid doesn't excuse his behavior but realizing that he is truly one of the most frightened people in the first season changed perspective on Jin watching him transform into someone who is truly brave made him a fan favorite by the end of the series. Jin's gins loyalty to his father in law even when it's harmful to him is motivated by his basic fear which is being abandoned and not support it. He deeply fears being alone and without sun a fear that is greatly compounded by the fact that he is on an island with no one who understands him except for sun watching him transform into someone who is truly brave made him a favourite by the end of the series phoebe. You're speaking my language it's bb badge. In I love that as well other number nine really corresponds with that. So let's just hop into down Cerezo. Who asked this episode Jin's redemptive redemption episode if not when does go from being the abusive jerky husband to a fan? Dan favourite to Dell. And I would say that this is certainly the beginning of that journey towards what is talking about I think towards him becoming a fan favourite but where we'll really get a really great moment for Jin he's just like you're showing up and you're you're being a great guy. Jiuquan is do no harm when he's going to be involved in the birth Aaron and he's just GonNa play such a great role in all of that. I think that if that if that moment has already started to arrive by at the time that Jin is crying already crowned at this point you know. I think it's for me. It's like when he's crying in the mirror like now really understand that but none of this was something that he wanted to do. Certainly by the time that he's got the bamboo and saying boat like I'm I'm really feeling it but I think the whole the whole role he plays in the birth of Aaron is just magical stuff. Yeah I would actually copy and paste but we set about outlaws last week where this is not necessarily like the point redemption for Jin. But it's a step over that ultimate ill. You know where he's got you know in a in a bigger way than persona because player sorta walks back in the way that you know he definitely does stuff sawyer lives in the red right like lives in the L.. VP Section Jin's. Not they're like Jin's already on higher moral ground than than Sawyer. It's going to be a an easier journey for him even with the language barrier. And that's that's what makes this episode so great to is not only the mirror stuff like you mentioned the same with his dad. I mean we've really find out so much about gin. and where he literally comes from it that it really just flushes out this character that we knew little to nothing about because of the language barrier because we were seeing him through the eyes of other people even someone like his wife with think is so close to my nose everything about him we find out that isn't true and to briefly back to. What's phoebe said? I totally agree. You and Gina. I would say one of his key tenants in season one is that he is protective. Maybe even overly so I feel like when you look at the idea of protection it is motivated faded by fear right. It's this idea. Oh my God there are so many things that can come and get me and the people that I love so I ain't to be overly protective to shield myself from that almost build all the wall so that nothing can tear it down so I totally cosign everything that she said and I think that's one reason why we see his treatment of Sun especially in that first. Half of a season one is that I think he is genuinely fearful of not only their new situation but the situation he just came out of and from his perspective might still be involved in that that makes them behave the way he does other number. Ten Stefan Johnson writes in and says son Asks Jin her father asks him to do. I don't believe I believe that Sun doesn't know what type of person her father is. Should she have more understanding in this situation. We're going to. Is it a strike against against Sun for not understanding that her father is so ruthless that he is ordering assassinations or do you want to give her a little bit more of a pass. It'd be like she knows her. Dad's probably awful but that awful like that's pretty extreme step so I don't know I feel like at this point point for son to know that about her father. I'm sure that like she knows that he's terrible. And as you've already arked out the time line you know she's come to him for a Our favor regarding gin and he came through and it was. You know. It's an ice cold interaction but to know that like he's like outright commanding people to die like that it's like Ding her for that. I feel like is hard because we also don't know how at what lanes does pay. Keep his daughter. You know the the thing about these interesting crime anti heroes another say pigs straight up villain but like look at someone like Walter White for example where you know. He tried to keep his family so far away from everything that he did to the point where they were completely clueless as everything that's going on even amidst some little suspicious circumstances maybe the same. Thing's things happening here where I really wanted to separate family and business. Tony Soprano style where you know. He is rarely keeping son in the dark and saying Oh yeah I bought unless you all this. It was just with my car company money. I didn't do any sort of shady dealings to take care of. And she was none the wiser. I wouldn't blame her for that and more so I guess many give credit for being able to obscure the truth for so long. Yeah I guess he's getting what he does is very effective. You know kingpin sons eventually GonNa take over and she's going to be great but for now but how many times as the plane had to craft that to happen or else she hasn't had that settlement money. It's true it's true speaking. How did things happen other number? Eleven Linde Steiner. Why did you ever would just let the fight between Michael and Jan happen? And why is everyone so quick. Assume the worst of gin I mean it's all about biases and perceptions like. We said they did see him. Try to drown Michael a few weeks earlier. It's hard hard to forget that that was in today. And that's that's what it is. I mean J- Loxton and talk about it in his speech right where he says. Okay maybe it might be personal. I think they're relying on past events they don't know anything about this. This guy except for the fact that he doesn't speak English and he tried to drown Michael before so it's Michael's biggest project you could say. Oh Yeah it's probably the guy that assembly doesn't like Michael Very much. It would be the first head to turn and I understand why they make that first assumption. What I'm not? A big fan of is the way they decided to just really tear into him vociferously without any. He's shred of evidence about it besides the fact that he had burnt hands other number twelve once again from San Johnson. As someone who's not married I can ask a Youtube Stefan rights. How big a betrayal is keeping a secret language from your partner up Mike? One of the great pleasures of being married to Emily. We Fox is learning something new about her all time. Like when she comes out with a secret of like oral wick story that I haven't heard you know we've been together for thirteen eighteen years fourteen years next year and I'm still like hearing stories from her childhood that I'd never heard before and always cracks me up that being said if I found found out that emily could speak fluent Japanese or German or fluent Icelandic I would be very very very sketched out. I would immediately think that she is a spy. She is some sort of sleeper agent that has been sent to infiltrate my life and I would probably go on some sort of downward spiral bender. That would certainly end my marriage. How would you react yeah? It's a nice. What would you do situation? I mean I. I don't think it would go. Well I think that that would be really freaked out. It'd be very paranoid so we're end up. My wife could fluently speak a completely different language that I didn't know anything about that would be terrified. It depends on the circumstances circumstances like first of all I would be impressed. Wow you duo lingo crap out of stuff. While I was none the wiser but I think it also depends on lots of different things here. I'm going to surprise you I I can speak Spanish now. It's like. Oh that's really cool working at this for that and I can learn Spanish just in time for our trip to Spain. By the way I've also booked a bunch of airbnb vs non the area where we are and I learned to drive a stick shift for no particular leaving you know and also by the way our marriage is not so good like I think it's honestly although certain places is that APP degen of like okay. She was going to leave me. She doesn't need her her to say it in Korean like he makes the assumption that Oh she was doing this because she was going to leave me eight and so I think that maybe on paper and our respective situations we'd be like this is intriguing but not marriage but I think from gene's perspective. It's Oh yeah this is confirming all my fears that I had about this person that I love so much. Yeah it just crazy. That'd be crazy. Oh my God all right. We'll keep you posted on if either hi. Their spouses secretly know a language that we didn't know that they knew other number thirteen from Brennan Fitzpatrick grade sides for game with Shannon complimenting wanting her not tying don't shame not I am going to give a perfect score that worked. Yeah that's the thing. Is that like he already. They already serve are attracted to each each other. Doesn't matter what he saying to her. Not Not to you know obscure you know the the the the words that they're saying to each other but like to a certain extent when you feel something I think for someone like they could say some really weird stuff and you're still like I still have a crush on you though so like he could be. I don't know he could be like reciting the Jabber Walkie to Shannon. And she'd be like Kay cool snuggle with you later. Jabber Walkie A. I don't know why that was the first thing that popped in surrogate father rankings other number fourteen from Melissa fours yet we know there are serious daddy issues on lost. Could we say that Mr Qantas honest the best father figure on the show yes alright. Weiner ranking number one with bullets that was diagnosed in theon Mercer had an attempt Atta ranking of the DADS number. One is is King Daddy Daddy Qinquan number two peer Chang. It doesn't have much presence in miles life. But he was trying to save every now. I guess he because he didn't have a presence like that's where it makes them a good dad and that he purposely said like no get away from me and all the crap. I'm involved in a number three. She's Charlotte Stat. We know nothing about him. Some giving him I think I would say AH Hurley's Dad. Even though he ran out on them he does come back and once he's back he's back he's really back back and he becomes a really good debt early so I think that Hurley's Dad redeems himself even though he gets off to a very rough start I think she is definitely up there. I guess again. It's your mileage may vary on Michael but the fact that he does so much for his son does that put him up there. I don't know about putting Charlotte's data in there basically by I don't think so I don't think so I don't think so at all Desmond's going to become a father. He's Great Dad's a little day. Say Maybe Charlie is like surrogate get father and Jack is like a good like fake dad in the flash sideways universe. Other other number fifteen. Let's close out here with a roundup. We've got Jim fells music analysis. WE'RE GONNA keep linking to that. I have not had a chance to to listen to this for for ou intrigue. It's an initial binding. There's a theme that apparently gets introduced in this episode that basically only appears Wenjun realize he has lost his wife where we see it in the beginning of the episode when you mentioned as sort of staring down the beach we'll see when he talks with Sawyer the Dharma Initiative in season five about like. How long do we need to keep searching for them There is a theme that gets introduced this episode oddly enough It's used essentially for character. Sort of starting over when Michael Glenn Walter talking about rebuilding the raft when Shannon tells cy like I've listened to lock and I want to start a new life issues a lot with Kate Kate and Sawyer especially when we get to the infamous polar bear cages ages in season. Three so I just general motif of starting over but it's mostly associated with Kate because she is Mr Bulava. Okay one more dude to to add to the pile this week. According to down Sarah we are up to forty four dudes from Hurley. Never fear next week is going to be a big one. We're very close to numbers. So got imagine the dude count is going to ramp up pretty significantly with a hurley flashback. Yeah I think we're getting me my I don't think we're going to triple digits but I think I'd say Over under seventy five dudes to close out the season. This is like when Judd's man count really escalated at that tribal council with Margaret Dude. I don't have eight. I'm just looking for the French chick where things really got out of hand and then finally round up a great tweet from Jack Ya this. WE COUNT DRACULA'S RHYME TIME A. There's a picture of Jin that says boat. Then there's a picture of a vampire coat and there's a picture of a castle with a moat and then there's a picture of a throat to which Wjr the official post show recaps account operated by one Brennan Fitzpatrick responded with a goat. Great Times with at Jackson County. I underscore escort Kerley putting the DOC. Dr seuss ridiculous. With get into the twenty three points section I will be awarding three empty points. Mike you're giving up to then you're giving up three points and giving out to the headlines coming into this is still comfortably in the lead with nine saieed is in that second place tier then and then there's a bunch of people in that four spot including son. WHO's probably gonNA advance this week? Claire Charlie at Jack and Locke Jin is at two right now expect that go up. And then at the bottom of the rankings boone and Shannon in the negative for. I think that they're probably not going to move the needle. One way or the other I would say there were a lot of points to give out this. I'm maybe more poultry week. I would have given a point to Shannon for being able to pursue that new life. But there's just so much good going on here Josh a lot of bad but a lot of good to all right. Let's hand out our points. Obviously I gotTa Give Wanted Chin for sure I mean like you know he the maybe he should have said something. More effective took to son to defuse the situation as far as it got brilliant acting from Daniel Day Kim and you get new context as to why Judas been acting the way. He's he's been acting in. It's just wonderful. It's great stuff. GotTa give Jennifer. Well let me stay in the Kwan. Family Tree Josh. Because King Daddy Kim qual- is getting A point here. He's just a delightful man and he has proved himself to be so selfless and so- nurturing over the course of only one sane. I remember remember that that and the and the mirror scene were two big reasons why I fell in love with the Kwan's so quickly when I did. And my second rewatch in Twenty fifteen just to get a new perspective on the situation and yeah he gleaned so brightly amongst all the coal of daddy issues that exist over the course of law so I'm going to give credit to a diamond here. Yeah and I'm very in favor of giving him a ghost point every episode from here on out to Daddy Qinquan because he's just the Best Best Daddy. Lifting ghosts are lingering on loss. Why can't go points as lingers walking king of the daddies because there's a lot of points to give out this week I'm of course going to have to give one son son is going to have to rise the ranks? She's terrific in this episode. There shouldn't be much in the way of needing Dr Tate. Y Son gets a point. I'm going to give a point. Listen I'm going to undo the damage I apparently lately did last week. I'M GONNA give. John Locke look he may have had his own motives for possibly derailing the idea of sabotaging attempts to get off off the island. But the fact that he's able to give such sage advice to Shannon to help jumpstart their relationship with saieed and also get everyone to stop going after Jin improperly to turn their focus back towards the others. I think is very admirable and this is sort of like a little bit of a glimpse into lock the leader. I think he he was more than happy to sort of. Let Jackie the leader. Maybe except for a couple of occasions like looking for Claire and Ethan and Charlie but we're starting to get more glimpses of locks of leading it being a people person and giving away some some sage wisdom so I'm going to give them a point here and he's very effective at throwing everybody off the Senate up very very strategic move move he pulls off here My final point has to go to Bobo the blood spoil your switch wines'll go. It doesn't matter each each. Get half a point. The can't can't can't break it up Pope with the dog. It's point all right L.. Vp's who do you got one good scene at the end with your son. Michael Dawson does not not bringing him out on L. VP category just. Because like he gets off the board for a little while I think he'd like cleared out and so now he's got a negative one again. I could understand his fury. He put a lot of stock into this. But I just feel like everything from budding. In with Jin and sun to just veraciously tearing into Jenin suspected back to him from the very minute the rap goes up into flames. It's just not a good look when he's ultimately not only incorrect but the person that he's closest with is the one who did and he was none the wiser. Yeah well I gotta I gotTa give. Lv people into the one. Who did it? Won't you burnt the Wrath Watch. It regretted it like you. GotTa think Buddy Walt's going to lose a point here which puts them at one he had been at two he loses point. He's at well in these three. Are we're supposed to be on the rafters. Let him be in the L.. VP point section. Together this weeks sawyer. After evading the hunt or backing off the haunt last week was fully on the hunt for Jin this week. And it was super Agra for slayer not a great look for him and the fact that he was again like Michael's rile up guy is just not a great look for Sawyer this week or it's sawyers at negative three now so he is. He's starting to starting to sink back a little bit lower. I'll give my second and my second of twelve EP. He points this week to Mr Paik because he sucks. Yeah look I think we should give more just theoretically because of what he's enlisting Jinadu but there will be in many many opportunities to give negative points The bad daddy's just love to show their faces and lots consistently so this will certainly not be the last time we see him all right. You've got one last point. You'RE NOT GONNA throw it on Mr Paik Josh. It's the return of the gawkers. The gawkers do suck the cocker suck so much like they just let not at all they. Maybe they're starting entertainment. Maybe they want to be like Joaquin. Phoenix gladiator and give the thumbs up. THUMBS DOWN TO GIN and Michael but like they're so in the wrong here and unfortunately unfortunately all our main characters that are standing by the wayside have to sort of share in the points are it's not just the the nameless faceless extras. It's some of the mainstays to all right. Let's get into the four point. Two Stars section the episode rankings. which are still in flux? As we are here in season one to the point that we have a tie right now Ah Yeah we'll see if we can not that I'll have to call Shannon but walkabout is still just by a smidge in first place over pilot. Four point one six to four point one five but tied in third place. Right now to Jack Sheppard joints all the best daddy's white rabbit both three point nine seven with solitary in the five spot. We got up. We gotta put in Translation on the board and for me I have it at a three point six. Which is where I placed house of the rising sun? I think that this episode is is at least as strong. Is that for many of the same reasons why I love house of the rising sun but but I love the I love the. It's not as powerful of A. It's not as big of a twist As finding out that Sun speaks English. But there's almost something more satisfying about finding out that Jin's a good person you know that Jin's not an asshole that Jin's acting the way hey that he's acting because he's severely compromised and he's in the darkness and he's having a really hard time and that closing montage so excellent again we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA play that at the end into the episode here. It's just so so great. This is a great episode of lost. It's it's hard to find things to knock about it too severely. It's not like an absolute elite episode for okay. So I think three point six feels fair to keep it in that sort of hassle. The Rising Sun category raised by another. I gave it three point six as well. Competence Man of three point six. This feels of a piece with that tear for me. Yeah I think that this episode confirms that lost. It's so good it's subverting tropes especially in this these first couple seasons when it comes to characterizations that much like we saw with Sawyer we see now that Jin who is probably probably the second second biggest asshole on the island from what we saw actually come from a very broken background. He's he's sort of broken emotionally. His family is broke in. His current family is broken as well his relationship with Sun and it really just makes us feel so sympathetic. In the moment I feel like this episodes just such a great job with it I I put house of the rising sun as a three point. Eight I actually don't think it's as episode house of the rising Sun just because I think the flashbacks are absolutely on par. But I think that the on island stuff. I am less intrigued by. Let's remember that house of the rising sun had the discovery of the caves and Adam and Eve which was a huge big moment in and a lot of fun. I can't say that the on island stuff sands the final montage with the WHO burned the raft who done it some that really piqued my interest as much as that. But I'm not going to go down much lower in honor of our great friend. Byung haunt I am going to clone your score Josh. At three point six all right our audience average average our listener average is a three point four so between your score and by score and the listeners score that's a three point five four in translation so it's on the other side of confidence man. ooh In translation is in nine confidence. Man is and how the rising sun is at seven on Sandwich Sandwich. And then outlaws is at six or gone Sawyer Kwan Sawyer double decker like that. I like that it's a club sandwich. Welcome to the club so ninth ninth for translation which puts that right above raised by another at ten three point. Five four to three point five on in translation to race by another another alright. Well we're at the wrap up but before we wrap up we do have some Lindelof business to attend to Mike and Healing business business. I need to wear white gloves. No no white gloves are required. No one's getting killed but somebody's getting a hat. WOMBAT station hat. So we're going reveal the results of the Lindelof right now and we will tell you the top three in third place with fourteen point forty nine percent of the vote. It was Jeremy Burman with a lost in here are third place contender here in Lindelof volume one. That was great. It was everything about the early two thousands in that it was a song from Nelly talking about loss. Just oozed two thousand two thousand and five all right in second place with twenty four point six four percent of the vote. The whack Shepherds Dharma. I loved that Beach Boys Slash Cave boys did a great job with recounting all the Dharma stations to get us in the mood for us. Getting very close the Dharma Initiative in general coming up very soon all right and our winner of the very first Lindelof with a very appropriate forty forty two point zero three percent of the vote rather than tell you who it is. Let's hear it from the winter. All She Michael Dawson's ready. It's about to go Dan everybody Listen 'cause I never knew goes. I'm yelling let's go. I'm yelling. I'm yelling what does body hear the ABI boost up killing yelling. I'm getting leave walt fine but it's probably my fault I'm My Goodness Collin Collin Collin Latch Berg. I'm yelling wall with forty two point. Zero three percent of the vote is the winner. The Very First Lindelof Colin right into us. Get US your address. We will get you a wombat station at a one of a kind as it stands stands. Congratulations to Colin. Yes I mean also very permanent like you cannot work out the timing better considering the other wall burnt also also then the parody episode wear both that we currently out of God. That's crazy. Do not mistake coincidence. Incidents for fate Mike Column Latch for winner of the first one bat station. Welcome to Wombat Station Nation Colin Latchford. You know Desmond was down there in the hat for quite some time but hopefully it will have a Kelvin Inman to join Colin at some point Josh say the first lendl off but I feel like due to the the success of both the entrance and the feedback from it. Hopefully at one point in the future. We'll be able to do another one. We currently have no additional. Lindelof is is there are there are no additional Lindelof. So start making them start right them. The next time we've got enough to pull off a Lindelof we will do another lindelof. That's how it's GonNa work. The lindelof off has been triggered we will execute we will push execute when when the numbers are right. We will hit that button and we will. We will hit yet with Lindelof so the existence of a future Lindelof depends entirely upon you out there listening to this who wants to participate otherwise it she'll never return again. Those are the stakes next up. Mike DOC WE'RE GONNA be talking numbers that podcast is going to drop December thirteenth. Hopefully you already have your feedback in by the time. You're listening to this podcast. Mike and I have already recorded our numbers. PODCAST just looking ahead at the notes for our numbers podcast. Yes we're going to have a at least a robust others section if not a full other section as it stands the day before we start recording. That podcast that bodes. Well for us. Mike I am so excited me too. I'm in a great finally. Get get behind the whispering that Alex is put out into the universe. Every insurance down the hatch just to set the stage from historical perspective. I mean understandably all of us watching lost in the moment loved Hurley Right. He's he's a big teddy bear. He's a comic relief. He seemed gene like the voice of the audience. When we found out in the back half of the season that early would be getting a flashback? Episode we lost our DOOKIE. We we were so excited Tuckey. You're so excited to hear about what's the what's the back story of Hurley. What we've found out so many big surprises from all of these characters? What the heck could Hurley's backstory? It is a wallop also. Introduces a huge judge part of the loss and mythos that permeates every single part of it even up to episode before when it got introduced. We're going to have a lot to talk about bring on your fingers because we're going to be counting the lot next episode. Oh my God. I'm very excited for it. I think this is going to be a great time. Talking numbers will be back next week with that podcast. If you want to send in feedback you can still do so for the greater good for born to run for exodus. You could still make it in time for the recordings of those shows. And if you missed that cutoff we're going to. We're going to do a big round up at the end of the season so it's not too late down the hatchet post show recaps dot com. You can tweet at us at pusher recaps around Howard at a Mike Bloom type. Subscribe if you have not done so already post your recaps dot com slash down the hatch for our apple feed but wherever you get your podcasts. It is doable. Ratings and reviews greatly greatly greatly appreciated. We will be back very soon with numbers and to get you into that Hurley. Early head space. Let's close out with some music that the man himself is listening to. This is how ooh in translation ended. So Aw uh yeah mm-hmm and Serve Bitch.

Jim Bishop Jin Josh Michael Mr Paik Sun Jen Hurley Josh Mike Ford Sawyer Kwan Michael Bloom Jin Kwon Jin Soo John Really Jin Soo Kwon Michael Mr Pai golf Google Shannon
Introducing: The Hidden Djinn

Unobscured

02:57 min | Last month

Introducing: The Hidden Djinn

"Hey there. Aaron here I wanted to tell you about a brand new podcast put together over at grim and mild called the hidden gin which land podcast APPs everywhere on September first it's a ten episode season that goes deep into the past to uncover the roots behind some of the folklore. All of us have heard about by have often misunderstood stories about the GIN, and if that name sounds familiar, that's because it's where we get the word genie ancient, powerful and hidden. From the Human Eye Jin, lower spans, continents, and centuries. It's a truly global universe of stories and beliefs, and because of that, we need just the right tour guide to take us on that journey partnered with my good friend, Robbie Chowdhry Co host of the undisclosed podcast and New York Times bestselling author of odd non story because this is a world of folklore that central to her life, her faith and her childhood. Robbie is uniquely qualified to unpack this mystical and terrifying world. So rather than hear me pitch you a trailer for the show. How about we let rob you do that herself pull up a chair, close your eyes and open your mind for a brief taste of the hidden engine. Some say they are the eternal mortal enemy of mankind. Others say are so similar to us that we can befriend them. Like us they're born and they die like us they fall in love Mary have children. And like us they hate and fight and destroy. But truth be told they're nothing like us. They are powerful and ancient, and they exist right alongside us and their own dimensions, their own tribes and their own. Kingdoms. Billions of people throughout history and across continents have believed these creatures hidden from our human is invisible but as real as the smokeless flames that they're created out of. The Jin. My name is Ravi hr three I'm an attorney near cows bestselling author and producer and Co host of the Popular Criminal Justice podcast undisclosed. But also someone who grew up in a culture rich with the legends and stories about the Jin Swapping Din stories like other kids swap go stories both terrified and in off them. And that's why I will be your guide into the world of the Hidden Jin. A new podcast exploring the centuries of tales tradition and belief about these supernatural beings. Created and written by me and executive produced by Aaron McKie from the hit Podcast Lor. The Hidden Jen we'll take you on a journey into a world that few US may be aware of, but one that has existed since the dawn of time. The Hidden Jin once worshipped an always feared. Join me to find out why. The hidden debuts on Tuesday September first, you can listen to the Hidden Jin on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Robbie Chowdhry Jin Swapping Din Aaron McKie New York Times apple Mary Ravi rob executive producer attorney
Introducing: The Hidden Djinn

Noble Blood

02:57 min | Last month

Introducing: The Hidden Djinn

"Hey there Aaron here. To tell you about a brand new podcast put together over at grim and mild called the Hidden Jin land podcast. APPS everywhere on September first it's a ten episode season that goes deep into the past to uncover the roots behind some of the folklore. All of us have heard about by have often misunderstood stories about the GIN, and if that name sounds familiar, that's because it's where we get the word genie ancient powerful and hidden from the human eye. Jin Lower Spans, continents and centuries. It's a truly global universe of stories and beliefs, and because of that, we need just the right tour guide to take us on that journey partnered with my good friend, Robbie Chowdhry Co host of the undisclosed podcast and New York Times, bestselling author of odd non story because this is a world of folklore that central to her life, her faith and her childhood. Robbie is uniquely qualified to unpack this mystical and terrifying world. So, rather than hear me pitch you a trailer for the show. How about we let rob you do that herself pull up a chair, close your eyes and open your mind for a brief taste of the hidden engine. Some say they are the eternal mortal enemy of mankind. Others say are so similar to us that we can befriend them. Like us they're born and they die like us they fall in. Love. Mary have children. And like us they hate and fight and destroy. But truth be told they're nothing like us. They are powerful and ancient, and they exist right alongside us and their own dimensions, their own tribes and their own kingdoms. Billions of people throughout history and across continents have believed these creatures hidden from our human is invisible but as real as the smokeless flames that they're created out of. The Jin. My name is Ravi HR three. I'm an attorney near cows bestselling author and producer and Co host of the popular criminal justice. PODCAST. Undisclosed. But also someone who grew up in a culture rich with the legends and stories about the Jin. Swapping. Din Stories like other kids swap go stories both terrified and in off them. and. That's why I will be your guide into the world of the Hidden Jin. A new podcast exploring the centuries of tales tradition and belief about these supernatural beings. Created and written by me and executive produced by Aaron McKie from the hit podcast Lor the Hidden Jen, we'll take you on a journey into a world that few US may be aware of, but one that has existed since the dawn of time. The. Hidden Jin once worshipped an always feared. Join ME TO FIND OUT WHY The hidden debuts on Tuesday September first, you can listen to the Hidden Jin on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Robbie Chowdhry Jin Aaron McKie New York Times apple Ravi executive Mary rob attorney producer
The Serendipity of Social Media #592

Inside the Spa Business | Spa

03:24 min | 1 year ago

The Serendipity of Social Media #592

"Gay I WanNa talk today about the serendipity of social media a few days ago I saw a video uh-huh in my linked in feed of somebody in spa during the bottle cap challenge by kicking the lead off a skin cable and I actually thought it was pretty clever now. The person who did that video was the lady called Jin Hickman. I I don't know Jin I presume gender no be- before but we head one mutual connection I think and that connection Light Jin's video and as a result that appeared in my feed and now gin and I are connected hence the serendipity. And Hayes where it becomes interesting then what this to sound fiscal about me because that's not the intend but it's a great example where somebody with a relatively small following like gin has got. I think a few hundred follows I've got a few thousand followers now all of a sudden. She's in my network her explosion now. Has You know ten fifteen x what it was before just by the serendipity of her putting a post on social media and responding to do it now it gets better because I've actually gone ahead as you would have seen a few days ago and down a little video to highlight the brilliance of I think Jin's video and so now that videos got a few hundred views it also goes into a podcast format. That that podcast show the trend three sixty five podcast has got a few thousand listeners every month so again that just exponentially expands her network of exposure just on the back of one silly funny video so so you know I think sometimes we get hung up in in how many views and likes and subscribe as we get on their own content but we never really know how far that's going to go and you know you done away. See WHO's connected. You always see who viewed it. You just get a number you know even if you look at the views of you is defined as a three seconds but now that three seconds might really resonate with somebody or not and it might be a three seconds spurred. It might be a two minutes but you don't know. Aw based on those metrics so I think in a world where we obsess about Social Media Metrix I think it's important to realize the possibility of serendipity that still exists around the number of people that I've connected with over the last couple of years or so just on the back of producing this content is the serendipity of social media so I would encourage you wherever you possibly can if you'll comfortable to put out content on social media doesn't have to be video diaw you know comfortable. It could be audio if you want to podcast formats it can be text it can be images with comments just the Texaco Stephen But do not underestimate the power of serendipity in social media and now where that leads.

gin Light Jin Jin Hickman Hayes diaw three seconds two minutes
25: Gin

Dr Wilko's Campaign For Better Beverages

09:21 min | 7 months ago

25: Gin

"Good evening and welcome to the baugh tonight. We're going to do something a little different. I'm not going to mix you a particular cocktail but instead walk you through one particular spirit and what better spirit to start with the Chin before there was Jin the Dutch distilled. Another juniper base spirit known as he ain't never in English you might call this gender or Geneva you can still buy it today in both an old style and a more modern style. That is closer to GIN. This drink was originally given to Dutch. Troops as medicinal ration and gained popularity among English troops when fighting Louis the fourteenth France by the time William of Orange became king of England a shorter name. Jin was being used by the English soldiers. It is also responsible for the term Dutch courage as a shot of giannetta before battle gave the Dutch soldiers courage to fight. It was in London though. The Jin found its home with lax distillation laws in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. The British capital experienced a gin craze and London dry. Gin was eventually born. Cheap readily available. Jin led to drunkenness in the streets as well as underage drinking as Jin fully took hold gin joints allowed women drink alongside men and it was thought that this led to mothers abandoning their children and earning it the nickname mother's ruin at this point the equivalent consumption was two pints of Jin for every Londoner William hogarth created a set of prince cold beer street and gin lane at this time to showcase the evil of Jin compared to the happiness of beer. The continuing gin craze was having negative effects on the local populace with rising crime and violence. Leading to a movement to stop the prevalence of GIN. The following poem by Townley was presented with the print to help convince people to change the Law Jin cursed with fury fraught makes Human Race. Apprai- attended by deadly draft and steals our life away virtue and truth driven to despair. It's rage compels to fly but cherishes with hellish care theft murder. Perjury Damned Cup. That's on the vitals. Praise that liquid fire contains which madness to the heart conveys and rolls it through the veins to down on the evils of GIN. The government tried passing multiple laws. It wasn't until the so-called gin act in seventeen fifty one that they managed to curtail the problem. It prohibited selling to unlicensed merchants and put restrictions and high prices on retail licenses as an alternative t was encouraged as was drinking for men. Jin however began to be exported to the world on the back of the British Empire and the British Navy despite the ubiquity of London Dry Gin. He doesn't have a protected status. You of Brown's London Gin. A very specific on both the purity of the alcohol ninety-six percent alcohol by volume initially and then only from agricultural products and it was also have minimum. Ab thirty seven point. Five percent in the end product. If you're interested in the other provisions check the show notes for a link to laws but importantly none of these provisions covers the distillation location so you can happily stale London gin in Madrid all Luxembourg and still call it London Gin. The dry is optional. As far as protected Jin's go in the UK. It will likely surprise you that there's only one. Pm Jin while the distillation rules very similar to those of London. Gin they must be produced in the port town of Plymouth. It's not a surprise. That Plymouth with its links to the navy has famously good gin. At the moment the only distiller is the black fries. Distillery THAT MAKES THE FAMOUS PLYMOUTH. Gin Aptly named indeed one of my earliest reviewers is of the Plymouth distillery tour. I heartily recommend anyone visiting the South West of England with a few hours to spare further afield another protected. Jin takes us to Germany. Despite my many travels across Germany I only encountered Stein hak-jun last year as part of a Roth a generous leaving gift. I was presented with a delightful bottle of sixty year. Old Schlichter Jin. Despite being juniper heavy Jin it has a much smoother taste than London dry and no citrus flavor at all there are currently only two manufacturers and operation. But it's definitely a unique. Jin that is worth seeking out. The smoothness makes it drinkable on. Its own or is a good base for the more ingredients. Heavy gin based cocktails. Although I don't think I'd waste the sixty year old variant cocktail. It's definitely worth enjoying on. Its own as I'm doing in the BAA rights now in more recent is you will have seen a veritable boom in the production of Jin while. Gmt's have never truly left us. And John has been poorly. Maligned is the drink of the middle aged as unexciting since around. Twenty ten the thoughts distilling process leads to quick innovation. You can distill gin from the initial alcohol and around eight hours and so you can integrate varieties far foster them whiskey or any other spirit that requires aging. This is seen an inevitable. Uptaken GIN drinking as it can be flavored fashionably and there's plenty of it about the GMT which has never truly left us. Come back to leading to a requisite boom and tonic varieties. There really is something for everyone in the Japan market. These days pairing a particular. Jin's flavors teutonic can be quite the art. There are now a number of Jin delivery services to send you measures of different Jin's to try alongside the boast tasting notes whether it be Jin works. Well with tonic a particular mix of Rosemary and lemonade or just best enjoyed over. Ice The standard. Gmt can overpower the taste of Gin with will that Queen so does definitely worth investigating. Oh Pallet with a small soup song of Jin served of rice will perhaps in a cocktail that brings the flavor to the four which brings us to the humble Martini. A perfect Martini should be made by filling a glass with Jin then waving it in the general direction of Italy. No coward if you do want a cocktail to showcase your favourite gin. You can't go far wrong with the Martini. Traditionally a mixture of GIN and the move that is stirred not shaken. Mr Bond you can limit the Vermouth to ensure that you can enjoy the taste of unique modern Jin now. Don't get me wrong. A GIN and tonic. Another excellent libation. But you need to Catholic match that tonic to the Jin career. They want to bring the Jin to the four the Martini as the way to go though I suppose you could just drink neat gin. As we've discussed I might recommend that you at least do that on the rocks. Though at that point you're surely just an olive away from an old coward. Martini might as well head. Your bets and Enjoy Martini. Mixed masterfully at the bar for you. I hope you've enjoyed this visit to the bar as I describe the history of a particular spirit in detail. Join me next time. Feel Bakili scheduled programming while discussing that very Martini and how to make one see then. You don't Awoko Campaign for better. Beverages is a production of tinker tailor. Soldier sponge productions. It was researched written produced by Dr Wilco. The Jin was drunk by Dr Wilco. The Music Was George. Street shuffled licensed under creative Commons by attribution three by Kevin mccloud OF INCOMPETENT DOT COM. You can find the show notes dot org dot org for slash podcast Ford Slash Twenty Five. You can support this podcast on patron find the show notes and the website Dr Walker Dot Org forward slash patriot. After all. Someone's got to keep me in GIN.

Jin Gin London Gin London Schlichter Jin Plymouth baugh Chin lax England France Martini Dr Wilco Kevin mccloud Louis government Dr Walker Dot Germany British Navy Townley
TWiT 741: Jin Yang's Not Hotdog Method

This Week in Tech

2:23:18 hr | 1 year ago

TWiT 741: Jin Yang's Not Hotdog Method

"It's time for tweet this week in Tech my last show for a month so it's GonNa be it better be a good one and you know what it is because we've got Florence I on Mike Elegant Seth Rosenblatt Ed lots to talk about including Mike. Mike says California's putting them out of business we'll talk about the Google Event Florence was there she's even got a pixel for just show us all the INS and outs this is twit this week in tech episode seven hundred forty one requests calculate your savings and try with Saudi with free unlimited storage for a month was sobbing dot com code twit and by Legalzoom voted Sunday October Twentieth Twenty Nineteen Jin Yang's not hotdog method this week attack is brought to you by Eero never think about Wi fi again when you can have brilliant hyper fast super simple Wifi with eero go to Eero dot com slash twit and use the code it's time for tweet this week in tech shall we cover the week's tech news with fantastic check journalists like Florence ion from all about in make sure your important legal documents are complete with legalzoom visit legalzoom dot com and enter tweet at checkout for special savings there's a capterra's free website at Capterra dot com slash twit and by was bobby hot cloud storage thinking about moving your data storage to the Oh twitter checkout to get free overnight shipping with your order and by Capterra find the right tools to make an informed software decision for your business no matter digital to have seen Andy Nocco he is wonderful person his ears are really burning right now how was Sabi is enterprise class cloud storage at one fifth the price of Amazon S. three and up to six times faster with no hidden fees for egress or AP twit podcasts. You love from people you trust this is tweet you're in Athens the last month yeah we were in Athens for months Spain for a month and we actually went to Armenia for a week and that was really cool send for Mexico on Tuesday so this is a brief interlude visit Princess squishy exactly some squishy squishy faced Have with you a precious item hold on we will pull that Mommy but first let's say hello to Mike Gallagher in the country for a change drugs and the material podcasts finally met that guy named Andy Cohen in person what did you think it was you know we had a great time actually he's The am I liked wishy facetime and more importantly the Great Boxing Lavar Costco Has Gray Bach love I just have to say I he's little taller bear hug and everything Oh yeah we did the events together he's a really great guy is the event was the Google Event Google event with their you're kidding everybody with was there what's his name Chuck was air carries Belarus extractions close enough exactly he's my people he's taller than I thought I thought about my he's about my height actually like three feet I really honestly it was like a hobbit time they went to a tech conference they're fun where all the Armenian techstars were there they exist I believe I was gonNA say they're they both came with me were to get I'm going to be an Athens tomorrow I I think I probably should not eat that I haven't had any sugar since February and I think I would die you could this is the quickest way awesome there's probably a little sugar honey this is a false to stay Jackley Seth Rosenblatt is also here security guru editor in chief at the Para lacks the awesome sure like doing retreat so many people I've been told to go to the top of a mountain before and stay stay down HE DASHED PARALYMPICS DOT com. Hi Says Hello Welcome back nobody's called me a guru before well I don't even have the fish merchandise are you out of your mind like that's what I do for living signed into law in September it becomes the law of the state on January one -Fornia you just put me out of work yes are you working I heard about this of course where I learned about everything on twitter podcast I was listening to quiet abc the United civilized mankind and by the way you're not they're not gonNA let freelance writers submit more than thirty something thirty five I and I'm like the deaths it would be a good death it would be a years worth of sugar in one slice of that's awesome yeah I would like that honey there's no sugar five and they were saying Oh this there's this new thing that's supposed to bring Uber Drivers and the drivers into the realm of of you have your Ashram has a garage we know that the Sean does have a garage back cave is garage actually I wanted to talk to Mike because yesterday you tweeted thanks Kelly lawyer she hates the California state legislature making it hard for employers but the theory behind this is that a lot of business his will use independent contractors to avoid paying benefits us and so they designate you you're writing let's say you're a columnist for Computer World Yeah I'm on a lot of other laws including New California privacy bill the Iot security built the legislature got very active is just thank God weed is legal because no no you an uber drivers and all these other people need to be employees right wrong the the problem is that this is part of the fantasy land you're writing a column every week forget to call a year computerworld should hire you as an employee but they avoid that by saying well he's an independent contractor so California's saying interpretation where if you have a bunch of freelancers and you illegalize freelancing then they'll just hire them all know those people out of work well I'll be honest Lisa saying this is the scientific method she used yes well well you're right one a week that'd be fifty two split in half yeah yeah so the I I'm going to speak here on behalf of the state legislature my why I'm an employer yes archive yeah but the problem was I mean she clearly didn't look into you know bloggers and just kind of like the vast amounts of money this way San Diego has actually been very active she helped create this bill and she said that apparently that they had talked to some freelance writers journalists whatever we're moving vegas well that's the other thing that happens the business moved the businesses that's right that's right and so you know I actually have to Prairie she admitted twitter but this is the other this is the second attack on my line of work that has occurred in the last couple of weeks so Zuckerberg doc decided that our facebook I should say I shouldn't personalize it facebook decided they weren't going to fact check political speech got all the press and also opinion columns I'm like wait you've fallacy of a statement because they're morons columns are based on fact that are checkable this is like who doesn't know that it's like the publishers that I met more than thirty five columns a year to thirty five we're that number stuff lorraina ask them solace who's an assembly woman article ads in fact the FTC and this is what Zuckerberg brought up yeah does not does not require that this this thing is it's a get back to five but this is more tech yeah it what it says it's not a bad opinion raise it says that facebook doesn't want to weigh in on what the truth do you have a reported article that's not an opinion column and then you have an opinion column they should Ha- be based on the same standard so for example if either one of them says face because evil they're not as I say in my opinion Com facebook is evil you might say that's a fact but well it you might not to allow them freedom of work and freedom to be able to move from publication to publication as they see fit how it is I mean I'm still boggled by this not going to fact check in college we didn't even mentioned lap opinion on any piece of fake news junk and that's fine and what does that say about opinion writers and then Jason Said Oh sure you'll love this is fine it makes no sense to me and it's so confusing as to why it was able to get through in the way that still boggled by the by how this thing got passed in the way that it got past and why of all the laws that news decided to to not sign he looked at jobs and there's you know a very very bad reasons for why the GIG economy is the way it is and trying to fix them both with the broadcast you can lie in a broadcast at AFDC requires truth in advertising with the exception of political ads and so facebook just doing what the FCC and AFDC but my point is that in freelance have my own company right impact what you do at your blog because that means you can't freelancers you're gonNA have to limit how many contributions they make the biggest problem is that they're not fact checking anyone if they say that opinion columns aren't going to be fact checked because car sharing economy and the economy and stuff like that and say hey look you are doing an Enron around our laws these people need to be fully employed stopped doing this in the costing apparently doesn't at least according to even think about that by imagining coming in until you guys locked the door on me well I mean what's really interesting to me about this is that there are there's a legitimate reason for state legislatures to look at things like the every every Macedonian teenager is going to say oh it's just like oh it's parody but the good news is they won't be able to get a job in California that's the good news right exactly so all is benefits for us I should go find some time to to do some grassroots campaigning and go the old diplomatic ways the world's largest alpine hammers a really bad idea. You're a freelancer flow Bama freelancer I am your freelancer twit. By the way and you're on that you're doing it there is also very legitimate reason to allow journalists to be freelancers and you know and I spent decades literally decades getting the point where I can be a freelance writer with a couple of weeks you want to travel internationally WANNA spend time overseas in California while I just moved to Paris tell you who it affected is aunt pruitt who is a freelancer for techrepublic but as soon as he moved here techrepublic said Sir it is there's very good reasons for why journalism is set up the way it is now has to do with the lack of stability and lack of unions in journalism did so being that I'm here in California I'm stuck here I'm I have a building a family here and I've been here all my life like I'm going to have to go do some grassroots campaigning we'll all be out of work and so yeah it's it's just a it's just ignorant and it's extremely sort of Klutzy way to just you don't want a job but even if I didn't we've enough I wasn't nomadic I've spent I've I've made a lot of sacrifices to get the point where I can Lee of course that's what's going to happen but I have to do something and being that I live in the state and I have the privilege of having a husband that has been you know get voices heard as journalist right it's outrageous it's outrageous and it comes in and it's important to note for for people who aren't aware that this comes at a time when journalism so but nobody says that there's no such thing as a column that says that doesn't go like let's say why but you're I I think the same thing it's also and we shouldn't be too naive about the political process goes in effect January first but then the state has we're journalists in the US this year than there were last year employees journalists it you know people are being forced into marketing positions into PR position continues a very very bad downward slide in the number of people employed on a regular basis as journalists there are seventy two hundred thousands that's a that's a provable fact provable fat actually it's not a fact so you can't be provable lie but my point is that news and and at the tech industry is full of freelancers it it feels to me like a creepy Enron around the first amendment because essentially what they're doing is they're saying are not yet but that has more to do with the amount of funding that I have any ours them all right with the funding I don't how this would be an issue yes oh wow there's this rise of independent journalism how can we stop that how suppress it and should journalists exempt and maybe this is just for Uber drivers I wonder how it will burn lift the idea was to actually the idea was supposed to be to protect us from what I understand to make sure that if we are working this much for a certain that's not really that's just a that's one less harmless that's just claim say you're even sacrificing puppies the radical thing somebody wants to give a ride somebody wants a ride so they put them together and that's all it is and that's not clearly not what it actually is but is being a taxi driver this amazing job take this amended because yelling Llerena on twitter is not going to get it changed at this point ally which I completely understand an absolute in California a enough and and so I actually have a contractual relationship from company to company technically with so it's not about me personally but it's within thirty five shows a year so January first she is a freelance that's I don't know if it ought to podcasts yeah I don't even know if it applies to broadcast take them and there are people who want those bad jobs you should allow them to take those jobs right people love being freelancers they don't they're not you know I'm in my part right now you know my husband said to me this morning because we were talking about it he's like you know what you gotta go do the you gotta go do your democratic thing and go get signatures to get this in Mexico City is fantastic but the driver is never the person who owns the car right so the person who owns the car hires driver right yeah you mean Uber and lift our taxes kind of that I say that what kind of are they trying not to be taxis well they want they don't want to be considered taxes but in in our modern dialogues the the somebody in the room And I missed the name went by quick if that loophole though is widely used why would never uber and lift driver do it than the legislature will throw that one you know it's funny it looks like you're hiding the intelligence I write for Fast Company for some other publications are they all supposed to hire me is one of them's beshear me and I never right for the other one there basically deciding where my the tech industry especially this is important we know that that tech companies have been using freelance and contract employees as ways of getting around people who are otherwise doing thirty five plus hours a week of of work especially in low wage or minimum wage jobs so any say went based on columnists so they split it in half for you call all right we'll make it thirty yeah she said it was a little be an employee for I write I write one so I write for a new publication called insider pro right they th- so that I'm you know and I write for secure so the intent behind the build clearly seems to be on the up and up what worries me is this particular part of it and it doesn't just affect journalists at also I answered this ridiculous spread exploitation there I mean with there are there are okay I I heard about it on it and haven't had time to study it but is it when the company is in California is it when the employees in California I don't know let me give you a not to change the subject but like prisons these against private prisons they're awful awful how are the public prisons doing they're awful made a good point I actually work for my own company and yeah I'm a I'm a yes yeah yeah right about it when it when it came out in the PJ a society of professional journalists was You know has has been working on this and I'm the case I I again I feel like whenever there's opposition to some new version of something there's all this outrage as if the old version was great and with a at a shocking rate and and it's a real problem for the business of journalism and for the important role that journalism does play a two hats to wear because I'm an employer and an employee and I I've anointing I wanna be very laissez faire and just say well you know there are bad jobs in the world you don't have to try to enforce it then it goes to the courts there's many there's a long road before this actually gets enforced I don't and I haven't studied very close affects people in in Hollywood working on TV shows working on movies because a lot of those are freelance now they have some of them have union protection because of between a journalist and a large pizzas the large pizza can feed the family and it's it'll be tasty there you're just carpooling right just really that's what they say that it's ridesharing and here's the deal this ridesharing and here's the question I I understand field sorry but for others I mean you know this is this is simply going to force journalists either out of California or journalists outside of California that where they have great healthcare and stuff like does anybody know like no no well I I I think they're scraping by yeah I'm very see you're GONNA benefit at our expense let's make a bigger than journalists is it as the San Francisco Chronicle says is this killing the whole gig economy is this bad aide you don't have to share but what like compared to how they were because I've heard from friends of mine who freelance at places where what they got paid for an eight hundred two or everybody who has a gig worker and is it bad to be a GIG worker you being taken advantage of it doesn't feel that way right now I mean that could I think that could become the what's the union there can't remember the name of the Union but the writers her business whether I make that choice or not I don't like her forcing me into choices that I've rejected already it's outrageous Sarah no protection is yeah but it is good for freedom the differences is that a lot of journalism especially if you're in tech journalism you can do from a beach in Thailand why are we not on a beach in time it to the problem is in journalism it's a lot harder because people don't know what the market rate is like sorry fifteen dollars thousand word peace in two thousand five is unchanged from what they got paid for the exact same lengthy piece in two thousand fifteen twenty cents a word career in journalism broadcast vow of poverty and it's like it's not a great job whether you're getting into it's probably probably said this last time it's like the old joke the different L. is doing and saying no you don't get that choice you have to do the one you didn't choose that's when you have to do by law and in my case I could make three or four times we can't employ you any longer because you live gang yeah and so there there's definitely impact and its impact on a lot of the people that I know and we there's no way I did not have time to find a job I needed to immediately start making money and so the wheels just kept on turning now I am where I am still freelancing which is a freelancer almost all our shows US freelance hosts I shouldn't be saying this out loud we pay each and every one of them and give them fine benefits yes I don't think our businesses island because the sun is only as a record I freelance so that I could travel the world and went freelance because I left a really it's not to say I haven't been you know what I'm saying is that you chose to go the freelance route rather than to look for another job route out of desperation choice fault and I'm not a child and I don't need a state legislator in in San Diego telling me that oh I'm not protected as much working as the editor in Chief of magazine to New York City that I make as a freelancer but I choose to be a freelancer for my own reasons and I don't think it's any you really difficult job and this was the only thing that I had the opportunity to still be able to contribute to family at this point very okay but if if this goes into effect in let's say you did have people who are doing weekly columns for example would you as a result of this hire them and there if the employer decides not to employ ill exactly exactly into consideration that the next This exists Leo all those freelancers you talk about how other jobs they're they're they're doing this side hustle right or something like that so it's like a freelance work because when I left seeing that I founded the pera lax and this has been going on for you know for four years now but you've been freelancing a really long time what rates are you getting flow effects including all of you not you don't give you any money but no because then I'd have to able to pay very talented journalists people who are far better at this than I am very good wages very good compensation for the right so I know what the the risks are I know what the deal is and I've made my choice and she's trying to override it we have we just play twenty or thirty freelancers including you so I mean so so clearly journalists are being taken advantage of and it's clear that it's that that for wages to and like we somebody's making money I mean I'm actually glad you brought that up because one of the issues here is accountability you've been freelancing I mean I haven't really done a lot right but should is it the state's job to say Oh companies you've got to pay these guys because I think you're right Mike that doesn't mean that they will it just makes it harder for everybody I mean I the job I understood what California government wanted to do for Lifting Uber Drivers I and I had I was very much in agreeance with it as a Calif- nettles just you can't because you add benefits the cost is much higher sheriff and If I had to have twenty or thirty more employees borough of soap bars so that's actually an aero beacon Eros our sponsor it is the it was I think the first like it would be a very different business if we all use staff hosts there'd be a lot fewer shows and left less hosting work you hire freelancers I have in the past yet is doing I can pause are sixteen-year-olds Internet on on school nights which I do ten. PM Internet is off they really all effect when the new heroes came out I bought those gave the old ones to my mom and Rhode Island I love it because I could go onto the euro app I see how her networks doing and see how ours this is the beauty of freelancing as you can you can diversify your income streams right and it's like a great jobs out there for those of us who I it's great because you know while Michael's watching Youtube and we're watching netflix because still get email because the euro is smart enough Oh look you can also share your Wifi without giving away the password there's a great guest mode I pay the additional nine dollars for euro plus because you get so much more back to route the data appropriately you don't have to worry your security cameras go off line because you're watching Netflix in the bedroom Eros easy to set up to you put the the howls learn the Internet withdrawal is a terrible thing to see your stories if I had ever been in a place where I could hire them outright I absolutely would have been I can tell you right now I can tell you this is this low put you in that place hugh people go freelance because they can't get a job the the they do it because they want to be freelancers so just just in in my own my own that that's not what flu yeah and talk a little bit about ambient environmental computing we'll also talk about Yahoo Groups it's the beginning of the end it's all coming up next give them full benefits and the whole bit one of the key in order to be really really clear about this one of the greatest pleasures about having started the parallel axes that I've been that could pause the Wifi get alerts I love this part every time somebody comes in to the House I could see them join the network and I say for including by the way great ad blocking malware protection out ever have to worry about ransomware in our house because all of that Mauer's kept out of our zero APP on your phone you plug in the Euro Bay station the foam will help you position the beacons and you're done at any time I could see what's happening I could check usage voter but attended I saw what it was going to do to my business and I was like why couldn't you guys using separate like so I'm GonNa have to go to the grocery store and get signatures yeah I mean the flow piggly-wiggly near u s this my friends this is the subject of our next segment the protocols I just think euro solves Wi fi started great and then you've got twenty Computers Fifteen IOT devices in the neighbor's got that super-duper y email that is fantastic where are you looking like that's it sounds like a challenge somebody hack me go ahead Jackie Spear phishing email which is Eero protects and secure all the traffic going through my network using strong encryption and security secure to and all the additional features you get never think about Wi fi again get yours fixed as soon as tomorrow because we've got free overnight shipping when you go to Eero I want if I paid you I'd have to kill you water but but I'm thinking of a lot of our shows I mean Paul Threaten Mary Jo Foley Freelancers and you knock because of freelancer should we should be considered employees so you know if twit wants to make the problem is that who who am I defy my Mo- router with four by four antennas that's blasting you you need eero so the Wifi keeps working I am very happy look at the Sumer Mesh Wi Fi out there I remember when I first read about I thought that's crazy that's what do they do and then I got it and I went this is crazy use anything else negoti because California isn't that will stay that'd be fired reason but that could go away to become a a a no longer will right to work the problem with that is that I'm an adult you WANNA have fulltime jobs to freelance so they're not gonNA give the job to sites exactly e e R o e e r Dot com slash twit and use the code twit at checkout euro dot com slash twit offer code twit get your ear delivered with free overnight shipping every Wi fi every home deserves great wifi you deserve an Arrow and I have to say I of cable Internet the incumbents have made so much money on existing infrastructure they can afford to pay the key members of Congress and lobbied them in the FCC to protect their monopoly and that's what we have in this country of a duopoly the FCC enforced it they said only the phone company and the Cable Company in any given region can provide I'd Internet service and and they did that because the cable company said Oh we just won't make enough money to put in the infrastructure you've got to protect US suicidal bushes every spider did everything will kill you there drop bears including the Internet now we have a lot of Australian listeners is bad why aren't we we've twice now tried to watch El Camino halfway through the Internet's gone out why don't we have gigabit fiber everywhere in the five hundred people are out I don't know what that means and it'll be back at eleven eighteen and then and then the same thing happened the next night arbitrary well because we're not in Sweden I know I know why because the incumbents this is always the case is true of fossil fuel it's truly Lascaux magically my bill has is now gone up to the point where it's just pushing three hundred dollars God I know it was two hundred knock the kids off the Internet you know if you touch it it makes you want to like basically kill yourself it's like gee most painful thing if you touch it and but it looks so pretty and it looks fuzzy I'm worried that within a house with five people sor- sorry six people have roommates and everyone has their own bedroom so there's that I'm just going to hang this on my mind what is worse not not worse than Australia yes Australia has a similar problem though there are also really spread out as we are that may be another problems geographic size of the region and then once they put it in they said and now you have to keep protecting us I mean this is terrible it's criminal we invented the Internet in the US and we have the worst Internet into the Al Gore oh goddess we have so many when he moves we do you have so many problems globally and even in this country and even locally like the wildfires that are gonNA burn up the and I just want to say I'm sorry I apologize for these guys Indian I've had a long running joke about the GimMe GimMe Bush on the material podcasts for the last night the so so NSF I have the option of switching to sonic gigabit. You're so lucky which I'm John just got bit fiber here downtown ninety I know the key try the cable TV the Internet and then and then I said Oh the first time I went online and it said yeah there's an outage fifty yeah whenever you come visit all your all your Roselle for awhile and he had a consolidated communication in heart is on comes and says oh it'll be a sponsor we have ten gigabits symmetric sonic here is pretty nice download y things the John is he's he's out to get the fiber and just ran out the door it's GonNa come back anyway we'll know I haven't switched because Adidas says is if somebody's like I think we're living in a simulation and it was I could tell you not having Internet but they're absolutely right Should Internet be a public utilities so in my we've done a great job of maintaining other public utilities blistering fast in his apartment and I just go with I mean I was up cooking and that would be like seven hundred down it was so I mean I agree I do think yeah Oh yeah I'm all ears by the way yes more more more blackouts coming in fact don't want Peachy we need the Internet we need somebody to distract us from all of it okay well completing happy points so someone in the chat room just just brought this up in a slightly snarky way Metro metropolitan areas should should whether through eminent domain or through investment build the infrastructure and then lease the Ford inviting and then you watch comcast comcast bushes before you start using it what was about to say forgot now what did you totally should do to fix the Internet should it be publicized very simple things a very simple solution picture to multiple commercial entities to provide the Internet over that infrastructure so just like the road system they should be owned by the municipalities but everybody should be allowed to use those thoroughfares giving us competition I that's my opinion that that's the part of the problem is that are any Internet comcast so they're not gonNA PUBLIC COM CA. PGE Say that they're evil does that yeah oh they're evil that's just an opinion permits that which is controlling all this stuff is owned by corporations because we have money in politics and we could get the money out of politics I think the competition would happen it all comes down yeah yeah the shutdown again next week it's just warranted up blackout but apparently heavy winds hot windsor coming hot ones coming your way so ah that'll happen soon that was my optimistic people who get the money are the ones who are in charge of saying no we don't want this week the The made by Google Twenty nineteen event did you are in the room that's called not orange yeah the white one you can only have three pots burn on your two lenses Sin Electric Electric The Martha Stewart in it and Annie Liebowitz so I don't know I was find even any leave of it's felt like she was kind of well she didn't have much is not going to happen all right where do you want to talk about Apple Google because you've got a pixel for him so jealous is so fed up with Google flow is at the event of national photography although you might argue that other companies like apple and maybe Wa way are are also doing some pretty interesting stuff sorry I want to I saw that she wanted to talk about the subjects that she shot the pixels that they had given her but obviously they wanted her to talk about the camera hardware and how it works but you know that's all that matters so is holding the general consensus on the May by Google event for those who weren't there there weren't there was it was incredibly dull telephoto Lens on the floor and not cropped the images I didn't cry is zoomed in and I wasn't that impressed me the thing to use our hands they don't want us to use the tripod they want us to be able to just go out and shoot you know not any legal it's here's his zoom talk if he wasn't that in this picture is of Crockett and crocodiles directly across from where I live I just given up on that get the difference this is a four top burner yours is a three top earners yeah I tried to capture a bird with it but I got the little that you weren't that impressive impressive that you weren't impressed I posted them on the twitter community if you'd like to go over there and see them I have a picture of Amtrak looking very jagged drink a lot of coffee so your hands are probably like this right got mark Levin is a former Stanford professor emeritus now who really kind of is a pioneer of competition to talk with you went to Google has done a lot to make google the king of copied is using the this big rig big stabilize in regular voter she's using the stabilizing rig the same when he can buy on alleys dollars Holman and it's pretty look so the regular pixel for Pixel xl they just can you fit just given up a not cops what's and I can warehouse polar bear seal the warehouse for news to and was moving slow enough but like it's still when you zoom in it just looks like soft soft exactly some of that maybe atmospheric do you think it looks a little he highlight for me was markle avoid the King Africa next to me he was just like Oh my gosh it's Michael Voyage Shudder Shudder just going off to me Sir yeah we we still like to go there it's a nice time so Amtrak goes through there and I happened to catch it and I like to go out here sometimes at sunset because you see the seals in the water and it's just really thirteen point two and Marla voice said when he was talking about he's sort of picture of the moon he says very bright but the background is very dark can't do both yeah so it's should be some shooting the all about android category somewhere you're just GonNa have pictures Pictures Yeah Cook cels pictures beautiful the birds are command three serene and so I there's Amtrak's like are the car at the marina and I tried to take a picture of it and yeah this is the thing it looks pixellated to me I was expecting a little more crisp so I'm going to play with it and one of the things both apple et stay tuned implying that also google was going to be shipping an update to the camera yeah they're always making it better every I mean we always so you kind of before the show we're saying yeah you know Pixel three might be a better choice for a lot of people why spend thousand bucks if you've got a pixel three just version your eyes could be closed somebody BBC tested it with people pretending to be asleep. It's still unlocked worse you could be dead Google apparently in the pre release versions had a switch as apple dozen the iphone that says require attention you know I wanna see your eyes but in the release she I for those of you listening I put my hand across her face I mean it wasn't just your eyes her whole upper head is still unlocks there no fingerprint yeah we're or decomposed or have somebody they recognize your facial bone structure then surgeons will benefit is that a security issue I think it was about four or five and it goes to eat as far as I can remember and still looks a little pixelated auburn a tree the wind was blowing so hard that task so these leaves were moving member it can't stack very well if there's unpick Google have done with this generation of phone is CEO and we're going to add some it's GonNa get better so apple's pushing out deep fusion the next few weeks I would guess when the irs he's not allowed in this country you had a wild I guess but I would mark Levin told me to do by zooming in and using really Mr fingerprint scanner on the back of his face so why are you wiping on yourself I know because it's instinctual there was something going on the finger the pattern on lock I actually have a lot of problems with facial recognition on phones as a way making a particular face I don't know but I I would love it if if one of these companies mandated that to use their facial recognition to unlock your device emotion so that's the problem the problem so the last little picture I posted now this looks good it does but how much zoom is that that they they waitlisted right so it's like us UK Canada Australia I think in most European countries so okay size in Europe hey on all my android everything Google does because you just Kinda know that getting into it okay we'll just the beginning I'm sorry it is they're dead inside work still work so but you so you sound like you're saying that's a tempest teapot I mean it's not it's not a non issue Calandra this is the first phone to ship with an actual radar chip in it that's the Soli Jackson it has to be approved by the it is interesting because Google one of the one of the selling points they use with Google Fi is you can take these phones any country and they'll work as who is the only way to unlock the nice to have multi factor or additional who I mean as a motorcycle is people who who are on their phones on cars in cars apple you simplemente in warm if you cut off thumb and put it in the microwave forty seconds you can microwave it okay what if you're emotionally dead the is print fingerprint sensors still works when your dad to also this until that decomposes slowly chip radar should be able to go penetrate earth and the top of a casket gonNA try like okay this'll be my face yeah that's a good one and then you practice works it still works she's taking her time it it feels like I hate to say this Google's copying apple apple gets rid of the fingerprint reader Google gets the finger so fingerprint does not work if your tasks cold so the fingerprint at least as yeah not that apple's I mean we not we but these debates were happening a decade ago with browsers right the big thing was is you know isn't it face is not a bad idea on the face of it but I think Ramrod but seriously I think it's something that should be an option it's all to me as far as I'm concerned I think like the more important issues are how to these devices handle the the things that consumers need be concerned about and businesses need to be concerned about when it comes to privacy security Well your security guy is is is face a bad idea I think and I think making it the only biometric especially after apple and Google had such great success with fingerprint readers that forcing people onto facial yeah huge number exactly and five is will unlock the phone really really fast but it it's it's really not a global phone for because the slowly chip the fingerprint backup pin right so you just says I can't do it and and that's the only way I can get back into the phone after off and recognition biometrics that is a bad idea I think it's too soon I think the technology has not yet been figured out I mean we've had no they they after five years or something they are more than that I know thinks that's right it's finally gone aneta explorer going to copy the latest feature and Fire Fox the answer is you bet our runs chrome and now except now chrome and firefox are doing their thing vase reader has one in one million false positives so they pitched that it was a more secure the fingerprint reader on most laptops until recently was not particularly good it was it was it was apple's purchase of whatever the company was the Israeli authentic that was it eh allow them to really push the development of it in you know and that spurred the market I'm just concerned that with how how little we know biomedicine nine could grief Fro Sale Ch- nothing on the front either Kenzo Historian actually seth I'd be curious what you thought about this is a story FCC and the equivalent of a worldwide effect. I understand you can't buy solely on in some countries India is not gonNA they're not gonNA sell the phone in India it Google says that it is that there's face iden- There's face id that some are more effective than others apple in fact said that our fingerprint reader has one in ten thousand false positives somewhere else there's any well I mean they are sending a hash and they do and they do know sitting here reversible Hash somebody given that Hash is not going to get some well didn't lock their phones at all right when you had to enter a four digit code even most people more than half didn't it was the fingerprint reader you had to make some kind of goofy face at the phone that would be brilliant 'cause who would know you could choose ask now right if I did the face recognition we should try this talk when I get my Pixel Ed biometric fingerprint readers on laptops for a decade and a half or two decades prior to two phones so should point out there's fingerprints and his fingerprints yeah no it out so I think that's a good point says only you would know accept people would gradually learn that every time you're on your way can't you can't you can't not on not an iphone not on pixels not on Samsung's walk around and I make if if I as a solely chip user in the US go to a non Soli country stops working it that's how do how do I get on the phone and she a fenced l. that was quick look at unlocked I was and it was for she even looked at it let me let me cover your eyes and see if it yeah don't try are you dead it unlocked any no modern phone can you use without being locked right right but the reality of the net gain in the long run with me you can set them to you can still turn off locking and all that right apple gets rid of the headphone Jack Google gets rid of the headphone Jack does it seem I mean maybe disrespect consumer response to consumer driven by need and demand is what we ooh it's certainly something that I think we should have the ability to control you said you're GonNa be Oh is have to be open or you have to be formation about you they do know when it fails they do know I mean they're obviously getting something again yeah I mean in truth the the biggest risk is easy but you can see in the water the water is not great waters Goldberg was pickles really that was a hard one actually generate and you can do you can do brute force attacks on Password soleus smarter than that Apple's face ideas smarter than that you can't show it a picture at at that's what all the time make me want to strangle them Oh so you're saying if you're gonNA roll up this with solely you probably don't even have to lift it you just look down at your instead he's still better off than a phone that didn't have any protect the difference is that now that we have biometrics on the phone all kinds of applications have emerged that reliable normal and you'll you'll pay the exact same price as you would you don't have international or national as it so that's interesting because locked phone I'm totally I was totally guilty of that I until until I had a fingerprint reader on my computer on my phone uh-huh this week that is an example of just bad design especially since those Samsung funds come with a screen protector. I don't know if the Samsung screen protector does that or only third party about how about official recognition data gets used and it's not it's not it's not it's stored who are we thought he was just one plus no Samsung weirdly comes with a screen I thought why why are they doing this I guess because somebody force people to secure their phones better than apps was able to say there was no gonNa use this technology and you're going to enter a pan and it's GonNa lock no matter what you cannot I've been all cases it's stored on phone it's not sent to the cloud it apple does ascended the club Google doesn't send it the club it is on phone right you're not sending your face metrics I I think that were beyond that time now on the other hand the Samsung S. ten and not which have a I've never liked it a kind of crap is is that there is potential for abuse when you have when you when we've seen demonstrated that you can show a photo of person to a phone with facial record let's sorted out legal ramifications of biometric logging and it's still not considered a key that you know like it convenient peel it off really yeah that's brave look at this face down on the table the man owns thirty phones Russian and have that device unlocked you can't really do that with fingerprints easily yes but we're now that we're in the World Ganz which is the technology behind deep fakes so a court order in order to force you to unlock your device that's you know that funding that's problematic the other thing is matt the mass acceptance of face authentication where people are already doing benefit because until recently doesn't matter I don't care if a phone dies I give it to my kids phone it's not reading your fingerprint it's reading the pattern on the back of the screen protector and so anybody can unlock your phone Samsung says we're going to try to fix this all my banks make you said a very long multi multi-page disclaimer which I think boils down to if this doesn't work it's not our father for like our banking software suddenly I can unlock my all my financial stuff with fit face if that faces wrong or bad or not good that's definitely a problem so you so you need to have it heated it becomes more and more difficult I you know you're probably right you can make a similar that would unlock a phone but it is non trivial L. Tra- sonic fingerprint reader that's really slow it often fails and it turns out if you have a screen protector Samsung's fault you're you're taking all responsibility I just liked the idea that this is this because so much valuable stuff is in this phone is secured and and my banking all you have radar that's why you have these depth sensing cameras you have to make a three D. model and even then there's also infrared sensing all right even though it's your face it's unique to you an so you and so law enforcement agencies don't necessarily need band law enforcement from using until twenty twenty two and the theory is the real problem is false positives people of color there's there's no discussion except in a few rarefied circles of the ethics of of what's going on that worries me deeply and you know forsman or used by private companies for retail and marketing purposes and there's an I think one of the real challenges state of California has formation further secured I just feel like even if it's not perfect that if somebody's targeting me they're gonNA get in if they can build a three D. model of my face with an internal heater to be leading this debate is a problem but I also feel that it's a problem for the tech companies to be leading the debate because they have financial investment in this that goes far be debate about what those are I think that relying on lawmakers who have struggled for decades to figure out how to construct a decent password it's on anything else I I think there's more I think this is actually emblematic of a massive problem with tech which is that the more advanced tech cats admi shut does not seem bad to me no I think I think there are legitimate uses of facial recognition I think that there has to be a much more robust so everything is here to stay forever it's like we're not talking go back I know that you know some some governments want to ban temporary they'll bring it back later and but but that's why it's up to US geniuses here on Mount Olympus to make these decisions so so you opt in right well the the biggest confusion around faces is not just because he's African American that's problematic shorts absolutely problematic and is great that they banned for that reason also emblematic larger systemic in other words it's exactly like occasion just need another factor the other thing is I think the truth is that we're the point now where it's too late I'd stay not even worth having a conversation face ID is and face authentication and face else do we want to be walking past You know t shirts in in a shopping mall Mr Anderton right and then and then have you know your phone vibrates I think about think about like last pass Dank my my my swings past so what though one of the one of the major issues is that at least in the US we haven't yet the harder it becomes to accurately talk about what the problems with it are and figure out who the stakeholders are and figure out what the responsibility should be there ignition technology is that it's all lumped together so for example the way you need to use Djinn Yang's like not hotdog method for waiting out stockers thrilled we use zero although something weird has happened two nights in a row at seven forty eight PM comcast stopped working seven forty TV or the kid were we don't want this for do we want it to stop Taylor swift being stalked sure nobody wants her to be stocked except for her stalkers but what you don't recognize everyone who comes in like oh there's there's so there's so and so no Mike is just made an obscure reference to six valley candidate Arena by the way I and and and and and and I think overall that we are not really we as a as a as a country and we as a society are not really talking about what we want this wrong with that as long as you're not trying to identify everybody and how people read it though is a police use it and every other black man is identified as a perp even though the women are not accurately represented so until we can fix it let's not use it right right I think that's sensible they will fix it though seth if you're all right I you know I don't know what to say I think it's I think on balance it's good any any security is better than no security you're right Mike did a lot of salt set it up with my man Gone Pixel for me for actually really yeah you have to turn it on you have to go in and by the way they make you sign of at least my bank poured by and again these these conversations are not happening by and large the technology is being forced on people and I think again that that without conversations about ethical impact and how it is that we want to proceed we're GONNA wind up in a situation very similar to where we are with say the US or other countries that have more advanced debates about what the technology is for an selling that technology for uses that we would be they can get in but that some speed bumps that's all we're talking right set security is just speedboat well you you you can also use face ID for two factor it was before when they were using their own anyway and we have to consider tech companies developing a technology especially something like facial recognition not using it in ads for a discount for T. shirts that sounds horrible it was the price who came on my point my point is the public will care because people will give away the privacy for three dollars was he's team marketing team there's different there's certainly a difference between facial recognition to unlock your device and facial recognition police on the streets by lawn has to contact not stocker stocker not soccer meet meet me shocker right that we can all get behind that approach to face id there's nothing colors swift we know it tells you if two uses her stadiums there's people stalking her there's face recognition used at the gates to make sure those people don't enter or stay privacy and other things where where there's issues of community standards there's issues of what privacy means now android ten you can you now have a nuance adoption for choosing which APPS you've installed kin can using GPS and and locate you until I love that by which is gene an android ten are now telling you that apps are following you and giving you the option they bug you to like android bugs like are you sure you want instagram to open every time you I'm happy to give away my privacy because you're giving me fifteen percent off on a t shirt but I I actually suspect that once people's phones are vibrating or whatever notifying them very like obvious kind of little statement to put out there and that's one of the person goes oh yeah that's a good point in county are all concerned like Oh we don't want face recognition used by the local city council exaggerating here but then like tic to who knows if tick Tock has not scanning let you forget another makeup store the other day in la called Riley rose and they were like you know the declined companies especially and kind of the marketed to women realm and so they did this as a way to kind of be like this is how to like get more that like facebook is taking my data for instance and like you know sending me this stuff because it just makes this stuff much easier and then I say well but how would you that there's these discounts who cares no one's GonNa care it's going to be an overwhelming deluge of nonsense it's worse than that too because like wh you know people in part of the Sephora community I I mean and they actually just just to give credence they're very technically like they one of the highest Kinda technically shot up dismiss but you didn't the APP no I'm still and I didn't tell it not to have location accidents android ten do both IOS thirteen you feel knowing that that stuff is getting sold to companies to like push things towards you to get your money and then when you say it in that way like in that's not a difficult thing to say but he space and just beaming that that that biometric data bacteria to Beijing at the problem is that most people aren't technically sophisticated people in the door and come to the classes into come try on makeup and it works and you don't mind embraced it I am just like alright Sephora telling horror stories to people who say now this is all great what are you doing this friend go listen guys it's okay listen 'cause Sophos after me when I'm near Sephora I know share with my Gal pals like we'll talk about you know I tried to talk to them about well the on the subject of the marketing that Kinda hits you all the time they're like well I don't mind Sephora one block away mall hypothetical you actually get notifications yeah and I have a Sephora app you did you must have very I think all of us do our best to let the public know what's going on that's our job that's hard job they're not particularly they don't seem particularly interested I turn out this conversation coming after us and going there's a Sephora down the block from you did you know there's low c mostly this this is the point is that people may say oh sure for three dollars or whatever after years and years and years of not having these features I appreciate that I I want I mean for things like links have you know you you do have to choose and then once you have to know what the consequences might be that's right it's too complicated and nor necessarily should then no you know I don't feel like you know well we do our best I was stunned fight flow of honor Debbie Downer L. A. Sometimes I get that but you know what I feel like sometimes you hit a scrambling are you sure about this yes but they're going to be the unwelcome guests right it's a Chinese APP and apparently it has access to my location I don't know why why do you have access to that it's it's a locally stored printer like GPS or land finding out that apps like there's some some aps I have I have a little thermal printer that I use just like print out stupid things and apparently you choose to ask you every time when things I like at least for me on ten is that it's been asking me about once a day with a different APP each time whether it's orrick fabulous panel Florence ion is hero that flow from all about Android I you you're living you're doing the eastern Europe now that may be why I'm just saying she's good with me yes someone's gotTa be already eastern European sign of exactly let's take a little break we're gonNA come back with more czar gastro nomad gastronome dot net if you want to dine with him when's your next event Mexico City in November and December we have to coming up and then we've got line of business is you can find software that will help you get the job done now you might say well there's an awful lot here well here's the best part you can search for what you're looking for the old version of windows they suffer with that it crashes a lot I know we we've had that situation we we went to Capterra and so is there anything better yes it turns out there's this thing called sales just depending on what kind of stuff you're looking at you can compare for side by side so that you can you see the features of each kind of like in the magazines where they have the narrow it down they've excellent filters that are tuned to exactly what your search is so narrow it down he wanted on premises do you want it in the cloud do you have you want make appointments with it air for every business seven hundred categories thousands of programs everything from you know digital workplace software video hi beside comparison chart but here's where capterra really shines one million plus reviews of products from verified real users on the twitter a show today brought to you by Capterra business software is kind of a kind of a funny almost a ghetto in the software world right I mean there's a lot of money business software and there's a thousand new reviews every day that's millions of people use Capterra to find business software and and and because Capterra's free yes absolutely management software mailing lists suffer but also things like Church Management Software Yoga studio management or there's even mortuary management so whatever your individual and again absolutely free not premium not they're going to charge you later no it's free capterra software selection simplify capterra belief software can make the world a better place because software can help every business become a better version of itself why suffer with the worst software worse than that they may also have access to every single that has print is like memes and stops fine print means we don't need to follow br but the two coming up or just going to be amazing and people don't realize how exquisitely high end like the cuisine of Mexico City can be sure we're going to really capterra dot com slash twit thank Capterra Capterra for supporting our show and thank you for supporting our show by visiting any of our sponsors including CARADOC more helpful Google for you now this is by the way a little bit of a different mission from to organize the world's information and put it your fingertips but he says creating tools that help you increase your and of course Seth Rosenblatt he's our security guru glad to have him editor in chief of the Pera lax at the Dash Dot com or seth are have you ever heard of it Capterra is a directory of business software modern state of the art functional business suffers great stuff out there best is waiting for you capterra dot com slash twit C. A. P. T. E. double R. A. dot com slash twit find the tools you need to make an informed decision for your business today without intruding on your life without intruding on your life in other words to be in the background ambient anytime you need it just Z. phenomenal through they're not just street food but shafts yes unbelievable and we explore all the Mexican things that have been adopted college success health and happiness now when we apply that mission hardware and services it means creating products like the phones the wearables laptops nest each one is thoughtfully responsibly designed to help you the New Year's Eve in Mexico City no we're not going to do that again it was fantastic last year but it was just really Mexicans really are into going back home with their families finding shafts and all that stuff but so often you go into a business and they're running programs that you know they still have to use windows xp and I ate because the program was written so long ago and it requires What Richaud sister Lo said when he opened the the event he's the vice president of devices services came I really like rich he came from Motorola state I must bullet journaling I like to I like physical media stance site journal I if you ever get an invitation to join fancy bear the Russian troll factory just Paean thing you've got the Hoop earings misses me Leo this is something we also have Mike Elkin he is actually of Lebanese descent and it's like a lot lots of ex pats it's such a cool city such quality digital gastronome Elkin Dot com yeah so this is this concept has been around since the seventies eighties ninety something like that's been around in computer science for a long long time if you recall Andy Rubens operating system it what's happened and I think you can give credit for this because in mass producing the iphone they've created a industrial channel to make these things smaller and smaller and smaller cheap thank you know having the thing you censor that knows when you're little chilly and turning up the heat without even bothering you about it so it's like essentially being immersed in a world sensor shooting so on tweak stacey was very excited about this idea of ambient while she covers Iot and I I gather well here's this here's explore that TV show now based in Mexico City Mexican dynasties Mexico City's The craziest food city is just amazing so by the world like Chocolate Vanilla Tomatoes Chilis all that Mexican and Mexico City is a huge ex-pat city to there's a lot of hustle name over a drawer opens everything's just GonNa start increasingly just adapting and changing and doing things for us automatically and we would just feel like these all powerful beings walking for a cheaper and cheaper now everything has sensors your car has sensors your house has everything they're everywhere because they're so cheap right and but now just just now consumer goes off on a on a pixel as you're reaching for it it quiets down seize your hand so so this thing about the psychological effect where your environment changes as you is the NBA but but the but the computer scientists have been knowing about this it's not just talking to a virtual assistant but it's also lots of sensors that no most interesting things over the next products it sells the new nest mini which is the second generation version of the first Google medic door at the grocery store so we're all used to that we feel it feels if we walk up to an automatic door and it doesn't open we walk into the glass it's exactly ooh influences their and our our coffee guys like this super genius in terms of coffee and we do all this coffee experience stuff he's speak Gogol's listening that's my house is that ambient computing is it's it's computing in the background when they sold off a Motorola Rick Not Rich Ricco said if you look across all of Google's products from search to maps g photos our mission is to bring it the free I think a lot of people like to leave reviews because that's a way of kind of paying it forward in fact if you'd like to do that that would be awesome there's a thousand new reviews every single day isis getting super intelligence and sensors that are doing things and a great example it sounds like a trivial thing but it's actually really interesting from an ambient competing point of view but when you when you're not and then when you wake up after but it really is a new era and it's Google's right to be emphasizing this buzzword because it's actually going to be one com slash twit I still want to talk a little bit about Google because there's so much they they're talking about including this concept of ambient move your house yes I do I it's like a talisman for him have you used the hand gestures to control the Yeah I did on the Demo who've around in Three D. physical space based on ai that's an sensors that are like making decisions we're GonNa get super user that the car starts when walking toward the door opens unlocks around on Mount Olympus just like everything's you know and by the way the the the the most common and oldest ambient computing device is the I'm sorry I'm trying to look it up for now back that in every case and it's kind of like the grocery doors of really good example I'm glad you brought that elbow from the elbow we're all GonNa Pixel Elbow turnoff alive caption because my gestures no and computers that our voice is a key part and I remember this in the seventies and eighties in the sensors were massive you looked like a robot walking around you if it's like really loud and also I heard it so I got one but I haven't because I'm moving houses I haven't like pleaded the backwards criticism I've heard people say is that these have to be fairly exaggerated gestures on walks off yeah you can't these companies move slowly with the capabilities because they want you to get used to the door just opening up the then then they add new features that you can make your own jet units I'm not I'm super not into it 'cause I I make hand gestures at my phone all the time yeah but that that gesture so I think that's why Sony who vert augmented reality glasses when the augmented reality glasses look like regular lasts and it's really going to look at that she's nothing's happening she's a witch all I could do that I can't do it now I don't understand why not sue the only gestures that are currently available from shipping is the one to skip songs which skips to the next or previous song all smart miniskirts speaker and this one in different about the mini so the next mini in particular so the next many have like an extra mike so that it can hear you no but I want to say hey google yeah I'd like to be able to phone suddenly buzz we used to do that in the Motorola it's not I mean that five years ago so you know it feels like here's the thing about Seoul the people don't understand about solely so they're very tightly restricting under what circumstances it will accept different commands or whatever but there's you're doing why you're doing it and sort of guide you along and it's kind of just the computing is not just input output through requesting searches. It's like I know reason why this chip can't work from the back of the phone through your pants and so people are GonNa be waving over their pants what Mr Fabric doesn't now eight by the way screw up and down you can you tell watching Baywatch on this the other day how channel on Pluto so I was just like yours it yeah and which is good I mean they wanna make it if it's a sub fifty dollar device they wanna make something they you know feels like they want you to have this ah sharks like episode that I watched but I was I was just watching into like test it and the speakers on this are really good they're like was called the ambient os like android well not before android this is this is after Google oh for central Astur's or the although I have to say we still can't make our own trigger words for these smart devices which drives me nuts yeah yeah you make your own commands if you have t t is kind of interesting it's radars for somebody radar in our devices I'm so excited about all this radar apples you one chip is a form of radars well in both of these are going to be put into yeah right so it's interesting you say that because I so I'm was a am selling my house in the midst of and I had to take down a lot of stuff third party already just the phrase ambien computing comes right up to the creepy line a little bit doesn't it especially because it's from Google house past the camp the microphones in the nest minis the smart speakers will be able to listen and if there's an alarm going off and kind of let you know that there is something that it's perfectly outfitted and it was upon request I also take down anything that we didn't want to include in the house because then people will want to have that going on your house that way the other thing they're doing is ecosystem play right because all this stuff works better but only with the other nest which is yeah I replaced my ring Doorbell Super Super Speaker this phone it's definitely an upgrade I'm just it's more dense than the pixel three it's a different security system so that basically the microphones will engage something going on so even if you don't have nest cameras have microphones on them the all of these things are going to be connected and you're going to be renting apartments or buying houses or whatever that have these things built in and it's either going to be Amazon's ecosystem or because it's really creepy to have potential buyers walk into a house that has hot mic on it and hot cameras and which is why it has a has a wall hooks he can put it on the wall and you just have it be everywhere part of your house have used have used the soap on a rope hanging in every you have our own individual microphone which is our track a lot of the ambient computing stuff is happening in the in the in the hurel type devices and Google's ear buds is one bowls or Google or whatever Chinese manufacturer is not a upsetting the rest of the world at the moment. Yeah what's your dress I live on six twelve wow away just having hot Mike's and the problem with that though is that the microphones will inevitably end up on our bodies instead of being sprinkled around the house and part of Lake because you're selling it as part of the package and people are still dubious about the idea of all this Iot in the home and yes you know it's a Baywatch Channel All be watch yeah twenty four seven being much let me tell you they don't know a safe people in it sometimes people watch by going like this like the watch was scrolling through that they'll slowly expand the capabilities as we wanted ah anyway so all the cameras were taking off line I muted all the smart speakers in the House of which you can imagine like I have everything review unit so because they've artificially restricted and they could just turn that on and it would work initial demos were Google and they showed no call you a couple years ago and it was supposed to be there removing the and if it if the by the way this is the creepy line if they recognize the person say Michael's at the door you'd have to put that in one the option in the future to be able to opt out of this yes do we want the Dort or or the flips out now but at some point all good I've been living with the stuffer two years now and I it was so the other thing about the nest mini to add to that is they had mentioned that it's going to become a part of the nest once we got past the jokes about their Internet and and our healthcare you never suicidal Bush's yeah well homicide scans ways in Google maps and other systems to see if there is law enforcement in the area if there's a traffic incident in the air cool very nice screen and and this is just the full hd this is not the H. G. O. XL Ninety hurts refresher the happening automatically I mean even look at something as trivial as in on twitter where you can see the latest tweets recently there's a lot of demand for that so they put it in their grudgingly automatically reverts apple but the but this is a an even more impressive example is a product called. The job rallied eighty-five basically it turns up and down the ambient sound based on side they're not going to care that much or they're really going to be against the idea of giving people control the whole all this one these wonderful benefits comet the loss of control right so all the stuff is earlier Last week I had the opportunity to try on not ride but try on a new motorcycle helmet made by company Australian company called foresight with the Hello Doorbell and now rings my doorbell my nest hub says someone's at the door and in the one with the cameras shows a picture and It's it's something that you would think motorcyclists would really want right you WanNa know these things in advance the other one really really really don't want you to have control over your twitter feed none of these companies want you to have control over any of this stuff because that's not where the money is that's not what the algorithms related thing if there's an eventually it's supposed to be able to tell if people have been avoiding a particular lane or something and use that to to warn area notice I said incident not accident asked me about that later and if there's construction going on if there's any kind of rude the whole point of the camera on the Pixel forest has all of that machine learning smarts The you know the the computer is doing all of the work that you're DSL are usually it'll but anyway so so so you know one of the pieces of tech that they've put into this thing which is really really interesting that you turn it on and it's you know they want to be able to just like have this automatic thing going all the time and they don't want nerves like you and me basically saying okay like I wanna be mature this yeah so I riders that there's some something going on in that lane and you should be prepared to to evade it maybe it's a branch maybe you know something else in the middle of the Apple Watch tracking not there yet that's why I don't want the pixel beds by the way I I don't want it listening I don't want the goals due manually it's Kinda get the results that you wanted and it's it's and and to to your concern I don't think if history's any it's going to look at this stuff it's not gonNA matter who comes up with it they're just going to look at it and say you know I don't want this I don't need this the new world where where recognizes things in your environment and adjust things on your behalf automatically this Ambien Computer Switzerland be dozen the Pixel Ford rape whether or not Soccer Berg actually owns these things there's the idea of people saying we're not going for the obvious product we're going to do an Enron and they're using instagram in ways that they four for sharing photos 'til facebook then they well yeah but they don't know that but but there you put what they're using instagram for is to send messages to each other in my ear when I'm out on the trail like I want to be left alone when I'm on the trail you guys be the Luddites of this generation what you end those people and then I go home and users end up defining it look at twitter there was no at symbol there is no Hashtag it it evolved and became better because users the users invent at all times waterworks and we'll turn that down Kinda like that too so I can hear what's going on around me while also you know so I know the conversations around me on transit when I'm also like rocking out all this is this is by the way the story of technology and this is this is what's wonderful about technology is the people who create technology's very often misunderstand how will be used the and I I don't know if you guys were aware of this but a lot of young people have stopped using facebook facebook is to them what my space is to us visit in ways that we were never intended and reject the the standard default features in ways that push them more and more into the realm of of what we consider to be hacking yeah it's a community that is heavily populated by a people who are skeptical of anything that tells them what to we're not sure but I think I think that people are going there's going to be a growing number of people who look at the stuff and either on what recognizes traffic figures well you're walking into traffic you probably should hear cars coming at you so let's turn that up and then you walk into a coffee shops like well you probably won't they be a disadvantage though to those of us who say we want this and need this will mile disadvantage for not having an apple watch she'll be bad I mean there's is comments on photos and then they delete the photos it's using instagram that facebook owns instagram. I think Mark Zuckerberg very cannily said we're buying what's that happened we're buying instagram so that we will always and I think you'll buy the next thing tried to buy snapchat couldn't do sure the but but I think I think there's there's already the idea do or how to do it interesting and and so I'm wondering if there's going to be at some point some kind of backlash where people are he did a Georgetown speech on free speech They got some got some pans on his okay why didn't they do it back in android four well you know what I mean like late in we didn't say anything we're so innocent learning far some some did anybody know what was he trying to do here he was trying to put facebook on the right side forty five I walk out but that's the thing is that eventually they're going to win in the long run is my point right and those of us who are holdouts are simply going to look like you were just kind of angle too by the way more it's more content focused like it's kept trying to do right now but now it's like portrays who who who got nabbed because he was communicating with his lover over Jamil drafts I mean God that is incredible is coming and he bought instantly tried to buy snapchat couldn't bought instagram made it look like snapchat yeah pretty much killed them yeah right that's a that's a smart so it's all about the users is really what I think what Mike and I are saying is the world's going to change whether you are a independent minded motorcycle rider the close friends thread The close friends filter on instagram now is the new way to securely share photos of your children if you don't WanNA put your children rather than just tweaking it or whatever or does is going to look at it and say no right absolutely not and I mean we'd ally Mark Zuckerberg's impressive he saw this over actress filters yes yeah yeah there's an instagram program called threads that is basically snapchat too stories does dissolve passages it's not yet public facing on instagram so yeah I mean I don't know if I want to talk anymore about Mark Zuckerberg but how how did he do Aureus do do you feel like there's a hole in your life because you don't have some kind of watch staring at me saying why doesn't he lights were we'll be a generational thing young people are just using stuff from infancy because facebook was supposed to be the great arbiter of social networks that facebook wasn't intending instagram itself wasn't intending instagram us pals secret google Docs or or or or what's his name or fence or friends facebook is a baby boomer product is should tom is very happy here in the US the US instagram not just so now you still see a lot of teams on there yeah there's it's still mostly doggy pictures in the vomiting rainbow stuff instagram I would ask what are you telling Mark First of all like nobody tells mog nothing right I mean probably that's probably it a speech making his case for Internet service I wanted to talk to his hand first speech I want to hear how he marks handler how physical voting machines are dealing with votes and that requires paper ballots that requires risk limiting audits book that that throws up their hands and says we're not going to deal with allies coming from politicians in the middle of campaign season I mean the whole issue wouldn't it would that solve it I I would be happy with a some sort of national law that said that any sort of algorithm equally determined ah do you think his day is over no I think unfortunately not no he's do you think that facebook is doing what it needs to be political advertisement is banned so you you can do billboards you can do TV commercials but if you're secretly giving like a hundred million people one hundred million you know we're we're simply not doing enough on on the actual ballots on the online side when you have an organization with as much reach as face I don't think social network to get all the hot chicks on campus so clearly he knew how to rally the Social Network movie view of why Mark He was if if I could talk to his handler I'd say listen Priscilla he's he's he so my my universal theory of Mark Soccer which are not being mandated in most places California is but it's it it there's very few states that are mandating them forget what the third is but utter utter nonsense would it be somebody proposed John Constant in crush proposed that facebook just not sell political ads mentally we sort of touched on this last month when I was on but when the the deep fake video about Nancy Pelosi they're turning their back on some significant amount of revenue but they have plenty of other sources of revenue if they didn't go lads pardon me talk does that yeah no ads you could still you could versions of an ad that's already snowing on campaign spending a million dollars a week absolutely yes boquetes right now right it's all under the radar nobody's knows what you know what in great score for that movie I want I want to know what the Arizona of my life no it's a it's a Trent redner and atticus Ross yeah it's it's it's the an inch nails sanitized version I want to take retirement I'm so bored with Mark Yeah tired of talking about Mark Burgers that he actually lack he's like not only colorblind but he's colorblind ethically like he can't what's ethical and what isn't ethical he can't tell the difference still have a Tulsi Gabbard page and put stuff up there right but you can buy an ad which would eliminate the whole this is John Constants piece Integra she would eliminate evil he just doesn't know this more exactly stupid but you can't say he's stupid because he's he's doing all right it's always been beyond face yeah

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Biggest Bar Night of the Year

PodcastDetroit.com

50:20 min | 10 months ago

Biggest Bar Night of the Year

"You're listening to the PODCAST DETROIT visit. WWW DOT odd past detroit dot com before information. Hey there and welcome to tales from the Bar our side. I'm remmy. We're here to talk all kinds of things. bartending drinking partying bar industry service industry. We're GONNA have all kinds of fun guest special guest I on the show today. Hey I'm Jack Nice to be talking ill the night. Yeah Welcome Back Jack. Second time on the show and so you're cherries popped opt in. You're ready to go. You know this is all about about talking about the Bar Industry and having fun and we've got beverages because this podcast studio racks Our podcast studios golden years. Sorry always a pleasure to see you guys and always a pleasure to talk about those tales from the bow saying like it's So what's been happening is we just got through the biggest bar night of the biggest bar weekend of the year as I like to call it amateur night because the amateurs are out in full force the act like they've never been to a bar before they act like they have never gotten drunk before I didn't deal with too many raging idiots this year which was nice Welcome change some. That tells me Lawrence got a different story but it was crazy busy and the bar that I work at is not built for efficiency efficiency actually a lot of craft cocktail. We do a lot of cocktails. And those are sweet and I love making and if you want to order one on a busy Saturday Saturday night or a busy whatever man I'm cool with it. It's that kind of our but it's on our menu. Here's our drink my new or whatever you want those types of drinks while you. Let's take the Thanksgiving it takes time and so my story starts like this it it. We were busier on Saturday night this weekend than we were the biggest Barnard of the year biggest Barnard of the year was kind of a flop for us. It wasn't like crazy off the hook. Busy busy that they like. Read that the. The busiest Barnett is actually becoming the busiest bar weakened instead because people like your home for the whole weekend. I believe that I did a bunch of happening. I gotTa say it was the dentist. I'd ever seen it right. Yeah so people are. I think it's a dying breed. The biggest part of the year which is fine with me. You know I mean everybody counts. Here's the thing thing is a destination night too because like you've got your spot picked out and you know where you're going in so the big nightclubs are filling up and stuff like that. I personally bars ours are hurting that. It's just the whole three day. Pageantry of Thanksgiving is. There's nothing more American than like that. Get IV for kids drunk as you can and then and eat as much as you can and then the next day spend the money and load up. That's America it is. It's an American channel tradition. And that's I. I made sure I hopped around and check it out and I gotta say was slow everywhere. I want a dead one but Friday night Friday and it was crazy. Roese frightening. I got busy and Saturday was just insane. We were packed to the Gills The DJ was bumping. And I usually don't like the music but I'm like I five force myself to get into that party mode good mood bartender. Well so many bartenders at busy places during those like when it's just madness when they're like like Carpe like going for you've been to see the point where you feed the car for fifty cents or a quarter or something and they're just like their mouths are going nuts. You throw a bunch of fish food into a thing of full of carbon they just go insane and that's kind of what it's like. The customers are all clambering over themselves and trying to be next and stuff like that and you need to come in and yeah exactly but at my place we don't have shopgirls and we've got an inefficient bar setup and we've got We have to wash all the dishes and have barbeques back. They're washing the dishes. And there's not enough room room and I'm not bitching about this of saying this is what it is. It's the reality of the situation so I looked around and every single station. That has glassware is empty. Just completely empty. We've got some beer mugs and that's it just beer glasses pint. Glasses and Oliver Drinks What well so I made five hundred vodka sodas and it takes a certain you you know you your cocktail glass? So we're out of this cocktail. I cannot make you any of these drinks. If I don't have the glassware some just like I'm I've got to do something everybody. He is heads down like grinding away. Working their asses off elbows up right where you really need a good supportive staff Ling. In the drinks bar bags management the management prepped and ready for a situation like write them. You cannot prep enough at this place. That's the whole point is like it's a rotating working bar to wear like the the glasses have to come back to us so we can wash them and make new tricks. I if they're not coming back to us we can't do it. And then there's so many different kinds of glassware that you know. It's just give me the double fashion glasses. The cocktail glasses. Whatever not working anyway so I just kind of make an announcement went to one section of the whole half? It's a round bar so three sixty bar so I just make this big announcement I throw my hands and I'm like you guys. were out of clean clean glassware at the moment. You know we're going to if you WANNA beer we got a couple of those left or whatever but I promise you I see you all. All these bartenders are working really hard to make sure that you guys have a great night. I promise you we're going to get you drought. Just everybody calm down a little bit and give us a little breathing space. All right. We're trying our bass and the whole crowd collectively was like. Yeah you can feel that Branson they have fun. I promise I'll get to you. Don't wave your hand. Don't do anything stupid. Don't be a more about it like we're we're just GONNA go down the line and point to people and their drink orders and make them for you and it worked and then I was joking with people laugh at 'em Flynn cups over and making people smile and are you guys is having a good time and I'm dancing to the music like when all work backed up against pageantry got you got you give them a little flair show. Entertain change the brutes detained right and they all got drunk and they all had a good time and I think I think my staff definitely appreciated initiated. It to you like you get a little bit of relief like everyone just kind of understands and like you know when it gets super busy like that it almost feels like everyone becomes was frantic. And they're like no one can see me and I'm never going to get my drinks and I've been standing here longer than he has and it's like everyone gets frantic. And when you just kinda go like like hey believe me we see each and everyone of you. We want to serve in every one of you as many as stressful as long as you can and we be patient and I I promise I will get to you being being on the staff. You know you know you are part of your hosting right so in that and that's good host remembers the fundamentals which the whole point is. We're here to have a good. What are we here for? We're here to get drunk and get in hard time. Hey Man you're waiting for a drink talk to that girl next to you. Know what I mean like me. They you we're going to get to you and as soon as I point you have your drink order ready. That's helpful really is I can't tell you. That's a great icebreaker with a girl. It's like how how slow is the service. Listen here jeeze use dickey. You gotta suck to a drinker on here. I am. I actually people at the bar before because I've done that like like if I see like a guy sitting alone or like a girl standing alone and like they're just kind of like both waiting. I'll be like I'm really sorry. I got you guys but you know what you guys can talk to each other especially if you know something about one of them you can be like. Oh you know. Here's a friend meet meet. You know girl boy boy meet girl about this for a minute. I guarantee you like if they ended up getting laid that night they would both remember you for our. Yeah well elk. The bartender got me late that night. That was so awesome. My friends my friends Jordan and Andy. They are engaged and now they are like super happy together. They're going to get married. They met like because of me and they tell everyone they know they're like Oh. She introduced us. Switch other store a happy feeling for me. Unlike I better be in this fucking wedding will yeah you better stand up at least give it a little speech the speech. Oh my God I so. I stood up in one wedding one time and it was the first time I've ever done it in a Mug aren't what to do fucking crazy but it was really fun. I really liked the couple and I'm so happy for him and So I gave a speech like just a little one. I wasn't the best man or anything like that but they were like it. was everybody else. Got Something to say this short and sweet and some pause like I was like you guys are such a cute couple and I want you to do me one favor for the rest of your lives. Lives don't ever buy a lottery ticket. I don't want you to ever play the lottery again because you already won the lottery when you found each other i. Aw Jeez wasn't a dry in the high. Kill Them I would have been one of those girls crying. I am in such a good man. It was good and I'm such a baby when it comes to split up less than they didn't even make their one year so that's all right. I was kicked out of a wedding three times before the wedding eventually came. I was still in it though and I helped out away. You got kicked out three times before the groom came. Sorry sorry I miss on the money you save on the open bar you can put towards the bail money afterwards because it's usually going to end in a mess right. Yeah right arm aren't remember. My cousin got married and like I was still there. I was like one of the last people to leave and they had a shuttle. That was taking people back to the hotel and they took everyone and they were like. Oh we'll be back for you. So like the bride and groom could finish gathering all their things so they never came back. They didn't come back for the bride and groom and like thankfully I was sitting there and I had this little like escort or something. You know like how she had this giant dress on and there was like her the groom and then like two bridesmaids and I mean traveling inside of this tiniest little car and I drove him back to their hotel and I was like okay bye I did get a really sweet Some really sweet photos of myself like dressed up in a talks. I'll have one also route and stuff. It was so good so A throw throw that up on our web page. We get that up and running instagram. Check that up into girl up on the ground. It's like I've got it's sunny and I've got sunglasses on fresh haircut and I got my my jacket sling over my shoulder and I'm pointing at the camera. Of course God sunglasses just looking to you you and the beard rock and and yet the neared sunglasses. Can you see your phone. Like as their professional I was part of the right front and center when we were walking around. He's like do you throw. You're throwing jacket over my shoulder and walking down the middle of the street pointing at him. Like Yeah Buddy. The head. cactus add Ed Frank Sinatra style. My sister got married and I was like if you see me now. I'm like I'm not Tan. But I'm not like super pasty. waitering vampire now. No but I was for a long time and not to mention the fact that I used to keep my hair like pink and so in her wedding pictures. There's all these people. They're all like Tan beautiful beautiful you know. They're just like they're up and nice nicely curl and then there's the care I I'm standing there. I'm like ghost. White Bolandian Linden's alike the white background. My hair is like fucking pink you should then. I'm also like I have this giant back piece like wings on my back and then I'm also like just kind of tall and lanky looking in the pictures you mean so I'm just like I just looked so I look like I'm like the the relative that passed away that they like super. I'm just like Oh man it was so bad. GotTa Hinder for you. I at one and I'd say I was actually a groomsmen for it and had the fitted. Tux and I gotta say a even for an open bar. It was one of the most boring weddings that I had ever been to and I was having blessed wherever I am. I don't care if I'm standing in line at Walmart or target or if I'm at the club I'm having a good time so oh I am actually ended up as talking to the service staff the bartenders and serve. I ended up in the kitchen like out the back door. Our next to the dumpster in a fitted tucks as a group. I didn't even talk like a bunch of old wasps on them. I'm literally spending the whole night outside. which brings me back of course to the whole medium of this point? Is that people in the industry. Get it Oh yeah find people. I'd rather be smoking smokin behind a dumpster with the dishwasher. Cook in Santa next to the assistant to the governor. I don't need the bullshit right. You're not impressing asking me with your title Sir. Here because I think it's GonNa work. I'm here for a tax that guy who's busting suds in the bag man. He's keeping this place going the most important person person in any restaurant. Oh He's Washer. He's got he's pouring four locos into his mind saying God love. He's not there because he enjoys his jab. He's there to make a buck. The best students a hard. It's a hard buck for for the dishwasher. Cooks and Sir I took place coming back. I took my cooks and busted a team out one time. There's probably seven or eight of them and I just got an income tax return and it was bad ass. It was really good one few grand and so am I. Hey you guys are just started at this restaurant. We opened it together. Probably six months earlier. And am I gonNA until you guys all out and you know spy around like I just. Everything's on meet tonight. They're like what real like we got done. Work in the bar was opened right down the street and my come on. Let's go non armie Brennan Tab three or four hundred bucks you know. But I'm like you guys fucking kick ass for us. You make us money. You're back in the house you guys are cook. And you're making sure look good and I just want you to know that we love you and we couldn't do what we do if it weren't for you guys. You're really old. Love Your team your earlier when you're on the glass it's hand over Hand you need your supportive staff and I. It's it's a machine because you're in the same space. It's the same buyer regardless of how many people are there. How many drinks you get? It's the it's the machine the mechanism. I love a good bar back. Kind of love are back Brandon. My bag my my best bar back right now on the staff is Brandon. This kid he's like he's skinny wiry. He's a hustler. And if you tell him to do something he's like does like darts off in the other direction for you when like the when you ask a guy to jump and he learns to fly. It's amazing he just like it's you know he holds his head down he doesn't even look at me. Just hold head down press your to boom give it to him and he's gone and he comes back twenty seconds later with whatever I need because he knows the place he knows the layout and it's a bar we have to run for shit all their stuff out there will therefore side said that you are not the not to mention. The fact is a crap on the different types of glassware. You also like one thing that I will say. That's a plus an perk of working in nightclubs and stuff is that usually we have one size and that's or job. Short Natale on. That was any kind of nightclub setting. It's like that you've got. You've got a shot glass and you've got a cocktail glass and you've got your well and you've got everything that you need sitting right there in front of you and backups real close by to you this place way different. It's like there's a million different weird things and we don't have enough backups. And another thing knocked over my drink. I was not surly talking with my hands. Here anyways. the thing that sucks is this this liquor distribution centre bullshit. That's going on right now. Although ours Michigan Chicken or suffering southeast Michigan are suffering right now because I saw the story on lines. I don't remember the name of them. But one of the main liquor companies moved their distribution distribution center to Livonia and the whole process thing got gummed up and they can't figure it out there's actual people missing out on their booze orders for weeks and it doesn't matter how much money you've got. Our corporate team like called them and we gotta delivery the next day but when they call them they were on the phone. They're excited nothing we could do. Okay okay so I already see the whole schematics of the problem. They moved to Livonia because it's an area that doesn't do a lot of industry with a lot of available industry so they figured they'd take advantage of it but they underestimate that the whole city. It's a huge large suburb in that. It's all residential. Yeah so what flows out of Lavonia onto down either down to Telegraph Telegraph for up to seventy five or that. You're gumming up traffic always and it's one of the most numbers to it's not a destination. It's one of the most horrible. Like two seventy five in that area is a nightmare to get down. But I think it's something with computing system. That's not working. That's what got gummed up. And there's nothing they could do. They couldn't fix it. Apparently it's fixed now but we're still behind well. Everyone is behind okay. So that's the thing. Is that all these people have to add onto their in every single. One of that are like well now. We're out of more stuff so you have to. Because they can't even keep up they're like only getting enough to be able to give out these certain things get want careful behind in that industry right before. How as I mentioned the fact that like while you shouldn't be buying from from liquor stores you're not supposed to be dry fiving buying from liquor stores like companies camp but if if you are a lot of those liquor stores or out of all this stuff too and so you know when you get when you get people changing enhance in the company to is when you get new people and new perspectives? Like they WANNA reinvent invent the wheel you know you know the. It's like when you know. Sometimes you just gotTa go with works or you know. Try to you know right. If it's not broken. Don't fix it you know so it. It was a struggle this weekend for running running out of stuff. Run out of everything and I just WanNa tell the general drinking public that may be listening to our show and hopefully a lot of you are because this is not just a podcast ask for service industry people. It's for everybody to enjoy you like going to the bar. You like. Hearing good stories are stories we do. This has been a public. There's here's the other things you can fucking order other than Tito's and fucking soda all right for God Sakes. I know that it's popular drink right now. But does everybody have to get the same thing all daylong And how many lives do you want in that because vodka sodas are supposed to be served with lemon traditional but no they switched it to alive so I I was actually really confused by that too because somebody actually recently. I've had an influx of people asking for whisky drinks with lime. It's really what is trendy. Everybody hates Jen so much. But Jin fucking amazing. Oh yeah she was on fire for awhile mixes with everything through it. It don't do. Don't just go for typical GIN and tonic man. Now what would they want with it. Jin Jin Pales Vodka for me personally because I think vodka could goes with everything. I've had vodka with vanilla ice cream. It was delicious. Like Vodka. Goes good with everything but jen is particular but what I love about. Jin is the uniqueness weakness of it like that. Piney juniper flavor scrape goes like first time. I had JEN with grapefruit. Ju like the bitter of the grapefruit. Gol buddy and became sweet and then the pine was gone from Jason. It's like Snoop Dogg was right. GENO JUICE SNOOP DOGG but It got me off track on. I'm sorry I just imagine him like raising when he raises up in that scene. We're talking about trends. You reminded me of a story story years ago. It was up any ten years ago now but there was a bartender. Friend of mine was working the bar next to the movie theater over in Lavonia said not Bennigan's anyways was right before sex sex in the city to came out okay. The number of girls showed up in groups in ordered cosmopolitan served so many cosmic like it's like aren't coming up making mazing good one. They should have had six gallons in the back. Like ready to go. So so it depends on what Barra working at is what I use. It's whatever the bars has got like within grasp but you can. You can go crazy with it. I love making them with flavored. VODKAS COSMO COSMO with a flavored vodka. fucking drunk so extolling Razz and still we blew mixed together to make COSMO's a dope one and then I it's all sugar sweet and that's why if you use like if you're doing just I'd say traditional so like I would. I would definitely do like an orange peel again. Just describe a potato peeler and slice off the bit of the rind. You know like no no oh fruit even just do the just the twist the correct way but you know it it again. It depends on what you've got with you and stuff like that if you've got a really good Kind of Cointreau. Triple SEC definitely helps it. The key to it is that a cosmos should be pink not absolutely yeah too many people all that cranberry juice wash just alone. Just a baby little ten bidders to say because it's the color pink that's perfect for a sixteen year old girls run. Make your cosmo you look like a sixteen year old girls room the drink you expect a UNICORNS Radyr to be drinking. It's like it's bright. Place is bright paying. It's got that you know. It's definitely a healthy splash. But it's not too much of a splash not read not ride. No so many people that do that and Ed drives me crazy. Rose my world what. I love about. bartending is the fact that I've I've learned so many different techniques that I can work really fast ask a tight space and not spill because that drives me nuts. I hate wet people do that during all over the place in there fucking flying. They're going so fast that they're messing it up. You can just as fast if you make yourself compact and stand up straight scoop ice with precision. Do you know what I mean for poor alcohol. I put the ice over mix around and when you fill up the mixer you leave a nice little fat fucking quarter of an inch to like five sixth of some some little number but like do not overfell. That's the problem. Don't overfill Philip right to that spot and then fucking like oh the gun and and place it in front of the gas now. They're going to spill it because of drunk and I get that and I'm not bitching about them. We'll go therefore I'm there for to clean up after you to make sure you have a good time to get you drunk but when the bartenders do it and this is just like this is just my gag man like try to make your drinks precise you can do it fast vast. That's the difference zone. That's the difference between some house. MOM plane host trained juggle six SOLO CUPS in her hands to everybody and someone. WHO's a professional special? You know how to serve a drink you know the subtle nuances of the pageantry that requires to be as good when it's all about exactly especially when you're training somebody. There's so many little things that I want to tell them. There's I am. I am a stickler for nicely cut fruits. Oh my God I really like my fruit to be a very specific way the the same with exactly. I'm like about tell them all the time like whenever I have a barbeque that has to. I prefer to cut my own but in the event that I'm not supposed to or whatever the fuck the rules are I go okay. I want them each be about the width of a bottle. Cap like a nice healthy wedge that you can squeeze and but I can also put also GonNa be on a silver platter and to be held but I'm not like that ridiculous. No Muss Z.. Larry Attractive Blonde by Virgin. You know you better not make eye contact. I WANNA looking down. But she better editor beautiful. No no no so like I just really like my fruit to be very specific in so I do prefer to cut my own favorite and I know a lot of bartenders. That don't they're just like whenever I I don't give a fuck. That's not my job and I'm like I like my drinks on this. Well I really like my drinks to be consistent and to look the same be presented the same idea. Why you invent the name and name a drink away right because there's an expectation that's the whole client like one hundred percent like you say you wouldn't call Manhattan? It's like well. I make mine with Tequila. I make mine with values. Look no there's one way that's why they named it well there's different for nuances to too fancy drinks that but still the point being. It's the basics are there even the basic cranberry. I'm still going to war right right. One of the places I work at home to Garnish it. And I'm like no I do. Because a Kramer he should be served with a live the lime. It's the the proper way to serve so even though it's a stupid like whatever drink that everyone fucking has and whatever. It doesn't matter. I still want it to be presented has ended the proper way and I always make sure. You've Straw. I always make sure that I pack it full of ice and I always make sure that poor the same amount you asked me to hook you up. Let me tell you something. I'M NOT WE'RE GONNA do anything different literally in a poor at the I'm not gonna you over port either. I know people that when somebody goes oh hook it up or make it stronger by fucking least favourite as can you make me a strong islands back. No I cannot. I cannot what I what I used to do is when somebody somebody would order a long island. I've made a big game again like on that showman behind the bar. I love being on stage and I feel like being. I'm by your onstage on my you oughta strong. ooh The point. Is You make the same but you tell them. It's a strong island and then you take a little bit. Ivanka in Newport exactly stuff like that. I'm not actually going to hook it up. I will again. It had a kid less money. Go ahead when people say to me like Oh can you hook it up or whatever of course in me. It's kind of just just saying to me. It's almost insulting because you're in a roundabout way saying that. I don't know how to pour a good drink and I can make you a properly poor drink. That tastes really good and you will taste the alcohol if that's how you want to be done but that doesn't mean that I'm hooking you up the other night. Some guy asked me for something and he was telling me how to make it and I I I went like this I got a little four year old kid and I got sad face and I and then I looked up to Adam with like big doe eyes and I was like it doesn't think I know how to to my child bad turn and I turned around and walked away and then I like flashed a big smile and like he was he was kind of a Dick about that too. I was like you didn't get the joke book. You then mostly van. I'm sorry go exciting. I'm GonNa go with these tears will. It's like Brow Brow I've been I've spilled more alcohol than you drank in your life. Please please like leave me alone. I got it actually. Brings it full circle though because I was gonna say about about those. It was Matt's is that when people fucking spill shit everywhere I all I can think about is how much product is just being wasted in those mad honestly slow down a little bit and make precise against again. Slow down a second. You're not saving much time at all like it's an extra second for you. Just make sure that you pour a proper drink and when and when you're in the zone and it's five five deep and it's going crazy and you're just like looking up at the next person who's there or or like three or four people like you you you you Gimme like Oh four vodka soda fucking sweet you know but you make each precise nice and set them down in front of them and pay them out and they're like those fucking xactly. These guys don't know what kind of depression Russian esque trend. We've got back in. We're vodka soda has become the main. It sucks the white claw. Oh how trendy and wonderful. It's like this is the shit that our great grandparents drink and because they were too broke to do anything else in the irs from all over the world thank you throw some fucking hypnotic Anada nearby fancy boozy for no reason just ever wants to actually support us then you know like laws pretty great. Shot waclaw clause delicious shadow to the Guy Shelter The guy this weekend though. It was a busy night but it wasn't like our most crazy fantastic essex stuff and he wanted a little Saint Germain float and I was like. Oh yeah I got you sir. One over the other buyer crab they brought the Saint Germain back and like little splashes Saint Germain on top of that is like very nicely. I appreciate your style chip. Might Doug the cutters guys you school. He knew what he wanted. Any fucking Ashford and he got its ads. Don't do the. I dug the kind of this guys I did. I liked the Keti Gibson if you WanNa Vodka Soda. That's fine if you WANNA white cloth I get to tell you no because we don't serve them at my right now and it's like you guys have like us and I'm like no we don't have class. I'm sorry here's our many. I'm just glad that do that too. So if I can just do a voice for them just to fuck with an ele- fucking with people. I once waited tables an entire day with a Russian accent pretending like I learned a little bit of English. I was like hello welcome. I am new to this country and I don't speak such good to Megan's yeah like I had to go and pretty good for most of the day but whenever I catch people out I was I was like hey thanks a lot have a great day. Yeah so I wonder what would happen if they actually did. Call you out. You were just like Oh shit. I hear accents of a good ear for him so one girl when we were when we were at the bar last week. Yeah that one girl was like. Oh Lauren. I thought you said Your Nima Chelsea catch you try to get you alive was should we let everybody in unlike the big fun fun after the show we always pre game and then we post game when we did this podcast because it's fun and we're degenerate lushes. Yeah that's it's just really but we go back we go back to the bar we go back to our usual haunt and And we're sitting outside and there's A. There's a nice lake covered area area and a fire going and everybody's telling stories and drink in and we're all dolled up because we were gonNA take pictures for tales from the bar side so watch out for that. We're GonNa have some fun pictures coming up. Somebody asked me what I did and just off the cuff. I was like porn-star he's like and so that I was like. Oh No really yeah me. And her Lauren Porn Stars in Shoot Lousy stay in my opinion. Do we were cracking jokes. Where we but we had them eating out of the palm of their hands? They actually literally thought we were born stars. I went inside and went to the bathroom and got on. Our message was like I was like well. I guess we're riding history the last time we started. We can't go back now and tell him it was a fucking joke like we got run this thing. We did law though. I'm like facing facing the other direction. Other people right so I'm like talking to everyone else and all of a sudden I hear Ramiz say Oh yeah me and her and I look over and I'm like what do we do like. I just Kinda like sat there listening to the rest of their conversation. He was like yeah report stars. So you didn't miss a beat credit me like this is serious and I was like. Oh Yeah we totally are. Let's have some fun. The funny part is though Oh is that the guy that we were talking to or one of the guys that we were talking to. He was so respectful like when he was talking to me. He was like so Chelsea. Like what made you. You actually get into that. That's really cool. He was like super interested and he wasn't and Yeah I was like Oh man I did not expect that this guy was going to be like just because he's thinking maybe I can hook up. I don't like his head. Don't fuck this up exactly right. Gopro things God damn it right yet. They went to go leave and the funny part about it was that. Oh so they're like oh we you have to leave now. He goes inside. He meets up with his friend and then like a few minutes later. They're back out with us and I was like. Oh no I could just tell that he went in and was like the speech is a barn the whole entire bar knew that we were quote Unquote Porn Stars. Show funny well. The world is a stage a a little while he was a little white lie but a fun world fun. I'm not I'm not an I'm not an actual porn star but I'm not gonNA say that that I've never had sex on film of some sort will listen bear made during the fifth Lauren pleads defense just so then everybody hello. I'm sure that I'm on a couple of my ex girlfriends sites. I'm showing. Don't start looking for it. Not on the dark web. Nine isn't doesn't exist anymore anymore right now believe me if you start looking. Start Looking for it for you. Whether you're on film or in a bar playing part as an actor it's entertainer word. We on our lives striking. It's all for for the applause. Lady Gaga would say anything on a scale of being like completely unknown to like half the population of planet. Earth has seen my butthole I WanNa fall like just closer to the like a couple of thousand people know who I am. That's cool okay. I had a guy contact contact me on facebook. One time a person I know not just a random person a person actually no contact me on facebook and was like So like Luke. Jit's I am not about. I wasn't hacked but I really think that I found like some fucking porno of you like is this you and I was like. I'm not falling for that ship because I thought they were like and then he liked the guy would remember and then he called me and he was like seriously. I know that sounds like a bought things. Why is this you and I like I was like well Senate to me again? Then and he was like okay so we send it to me. I like clicked on it. This shit look anything like me. Yeah I was like Oh man you found some porn stars and talk to the same. This fugger found me. She thought it was me and actually it was all about the exact right though. Oh but phone this porn it looks is you let me just say let me just re it so you. You responded to him right now like I know him in real life like I entrust him. So yes I responded to him but he was he was like no like 'cause it was like at first. He messaged me on facebook. It was like sent me a link and then he was like a we. I know that this thing like I actually know you and I are just right so I mean I know him in real life and he he was just like hey I just WanNa make sure because like if if I've seen this going around and it was some amateur thing it wasn't like some right right right right. It was a professional founded on. Like when it's all said and done the differences likability. I guess yeah the day. She good-looking she has she wasn't unattractive. Personally looked at it and I didn't think that it looked at anything like me so like I've been I've been I've been told that I look like a few people. None of them. I actually think I look like the closest one. I can say that I was like I. I kind of see that as Geno marbles. Okay okay. Dream is something. Well yes pull it up on your phone. Or they'll all all say Youtube Star Bill. All say they looked like you know some day they'll be like oh yeah but when they like compare me to people that are like famous and I really do not see it Thurman but I get it all the time. I don't think you have Thurmond's is that's what does Do you ever is for sure. I really don't I cannot like okay. The only time that I actually so it's a compliment. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS I. Just don't see it but like the only time I see it as when I used to have black Bob so like the scene when she's got uh-huh Damn pusher man. I love that scene. Forget so I look like me awhile in one of the missile. It's just me and one of the almost I'd get it a lot and I really don't think so John Travolta from the kid pull that got the ridiculous ponytail and everything. I could have been Vincent Abadan. They're GONNA do. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA go out there. You're going to say I had a lovely time. Thank you very much you can shake your hand. You can go home jerk off and that's how you're GonNa fucking do you know what a five dollar milkshake tastes like as long. Almost all milkshakes five dollars now I feel Shitsu the sheep that was the pre second grey recession. Well how old were you guys when that movie came out. 'cause I thought six times in the theater the sea sixty miles late ninety seven ninety six ninety seven if it came out in ninety seven than I was ten so you didn't see it till DVD. Or Yeah I I was. I was playing. I remember watching it but I was understood a lot. I remember going to the theater and seeing it like six different times I was just the best movie ever made fucking blown away. I was Tarintino fan before that like I could not wait for the new one to come out. So how old were you then. Well pretty old. Hey I was not. I was not on that tip back at the moment. That movie came out but Tarintino exert it is. It is He's timeless director and I enjoyed like gay. Go back and watch. His old stuff didn't just because just because you didn't see it when it first came out but I just I remember watching reservoir dogs would be like Oh my God mind blown and then he's like oh his new big movies coming out and it's superstars in Hollywood and I'm like Oh faulk this is going to be so amazing death proof and it was three of us to those are going to see in the the because they did move feature movies that won the way he makes movies the way pop songs like where you want to hear it again and again I mean like some movies. Let's kill bill some movies you watch it. It's like okay I saw it. I'm done on but Tarintino like reservoir dogs kill Bill. I watch that one. Go back and watch that I walked I watched pulp. Fiction's it least half a dozen times a year like I've seen it more times than I can count and no in each like there's so coming different parts of it. That are so good is good stuff exactly. I mean. That's pageantry great underrated one Jackie Brown. Jackie Brown's hands has to me league as really good so I will watch Jackie Brown. I watch that shit out of that movie. Who's your favorite planters? Afterwards is your favorite in Jaggi Brown. WHO's your favorite favorite character and Jackie Brown? Yeah I'm a Deniro Guy. That's a tough one man. I'm Deniro Guy. I think Deniro the weight especially his dynamic with his stupid like California -fornia girlfriend that is that's priceless. I don't know man. Oh Dell's pretty fucking old. Jacksonville Jackson is in an Dan. Mullen Puckett fucking hit right. I can't do a good Sam Jackson but that's about as close as I can get. I'm sorry I seriously they ask shouldn't even try. I don't do adjusted. Who Does have is pretty Samuel Jackson? Dave Chapelle Samuel Jackson. Yes is a better Samuel Jackson. Ben Samuels like why did you see me in deep blue. Sea Vargas shock aiming right now so good. Oh that's the the other one is Django. Man I watched Django unchained on any day of the week to such a good story. Such funny writing writing such a cool thing. The way he's porn the beer form and the first that movie. That movie gets me when Jamie Fox takes a sip of beer and you just fucking you. You're you're so into his character as a slave that you know he has never tasted beer before and he just he takes that first sip and kind of perked all it. It gives me goosebumps thinking about it. That is brilliant acting really into acting to that little. Holy Shit this beer motherfucker and you know the way the ways guy fucking pours it. lets the foam run over. And then like wipes the foam off a little fucking thing and then gives it another little tap. That's that's what I love about. bartending man the bartender. Yeah just watching movies where he's wearing an apron and a tie and a button-down shirt he's polishing glasses. All smooth dude dude fucking bartender in the shining wisdom Lloyd words of wisdom. Now I can do pretty good Jack. Nicholson Shannon which all all come back to the tide of the buyer side. which is the pageantry a good profession? Your bartender out there man makes advisor. Your customers are having a good time if you're miserable as a bartender. Get Out of the industry or switch positions or go to different. Oh you're at the wrong half to be able to put this million bars out there and if you are just like a grumpy shitty miserable faulk of a bartender do assault favor and and move along to the next porn coffee at a diner. No not even because I've talked to diner women that it's the same kind of thing. The service industry takes a certain in kind of person to do it and it doesn't matter if you're a diner doesn't matter if you're slinging Hash Coffee I've talked to girls at places like Barista I used to but I gotta say I got a soft spot for Cranky old women the pork traffic. You know what I mean like if I like it when my waitress at the at the Grease Spoon Kunas main to me about it. Yeah that's part of their stick right. I don't blame her because I'm only going to give her a fifty cent tip so I was just kidding. Just kidding no but you know when you're you're grumbler all the time and you're not happy with your gasoline or not showing them a good time you don't have to be over the moon every single time you get exactly. I went to like get into the mode. Yeah get into Aleve. Get a vibe going. If you're vibe sucks I don't WanNa work next to you. That's for damn sure. I went to holiday party with a friend of mine yesterday and I had like it. Kinda linked up with some people. I haven't seen in a very long time. One of them was the brother of like my high school sweetheart and then my other friend who dated a friend of Mine and then somehow ended up with the brother of my high school sweetheart and I was like what the fuck right so is one of those like everybody knows each other because we've all seen each other's buttonholes. Sorry I'm on that kick tonight. It's yeah well okay so I was hanging out with them and they actually work in the service industry and they were like telling me about how they gave someone a zero tip the other day and then that they went to some other place in the service was so bad that they like basically like nick texted their friend to like come out from the back because he was a sous chef just to show their like server that they knew the shaft and I was like sacrilege. I was like Kinda Sir like I was kind of annoyed by it was trying to be like you know ruder because I understand where I understand where they're when they explain. Explain to me. What was happening? I was like I get your logic like where you're coming from as far as like your logic is supposed to be but I just don't personally agree with it because I'm like like you never know someone's going through. You never know the reason why they're having a Shit Day they you could have been like the fucking absolutely. You're still have to tip them. Because that's because the you know the society has deemed as deem worked in the service industry before like you know what like I feel like comes around. Don't stiff somebody no matter. I mean. Obviously because you're in the industry though lavishly if you had a horrible experience and the waiter or bartender ruined it relies on route to you or jerking off in your fucking salad. Unless it's in front of me. I'm not paying the point. Yeah exactly please write what you go out to eat and drink in the service industry. You're expected to pay eh the salary of the people that work there. That's that's your job as a customer is to you know tip us. It's it's not something thing that we decided. It's something that society as a whole has decided in this country that people who wait tables Barton organ in the service industry in restaurants and bars they make their money off of your tips so if you give zero then there's no excuse you've just a complete and utter douchebag that does not I follow that rule of society and you don't deserve to go out and you don't deserve to attach yourself. I think now that being said I'm not gonNA judge who that is before were they pay me the tip. The tip comes afterwards and that's fine and I'm not gonNA say anything to somebody who doesn't tip that's fine. You just live with the knowledge that you suck right and you're a jerk and I don't hate you and I'm not thrown into shade or negativities your way but that's just the truth of matter. The truth of the matter is I work this job I because I get tips. I expect tips from everybody that I weighed on. Because that's the nature that we've all exactly and if you do that you're just a deck about. It's the old lounge singers credo lady in the sake of entertainment pedantry and the whole point you go out to the bar to have a good time. Don't forget to tip your waitstaff. Don't forget to tip or not even forgetting to blatantly out of fucking hobby. Either Sixty dollar left museum on their credit cards sixty dollars and I don't remember any shade. You know I did a really nice job. You're GONNA sit there and be like kind of socks but at the same time took really good care ever trying. I gave her everything she wanted. But it's it's like if you put zero on that You're just you're just shitty human being you know you you could go out and afford to spend sixty dollars but you couldn't give me four four five bucks six bucks fucking care. Zero see that a lot a dollar on sixty s pretty shitty. That's pretty shitty. But I'd rather have that than into the blatantly put zero like when people play Keno. They'll spend eighty dollars in Keno. They'll rack up a twelve dollar tab but then they're going to scrounge scrounge about ten twenty percent. It's like yeah this guy he's away only well and that's that speaks to a whole different story are you. That's you gotTA. You've got an addiction problem like you need to get drunk you need to play Keno. You're hoping to win and they don't really care about what the bartender thunder once. I'm glad I don't work at a bar ability to play Keno and if I win I tip fatter to if I'm playing Keno and I win some money you're definitely getting some of that If I don't win money like you're still going to get on my food and beverage but boy it. It was a good week. It was a fun week it was crazy week. There's all kinds of stuff to do. There's all kinds of people to entertain. I hope you guys are entertained. deigned listening to our show. We're approaching holidays. It is as I've found. I found a place like right before holiday. Season that That has a lot of things. Things going on has a lot of parties going on some pretty happy about that pretty You always you know we're not doing this for our health. It's not because it makes us look younger that we did we do it for the scale we do for the cash. We do it for them Monday. And so yeah you know again. I'm never going to judge somebody or Pest Adam for not tipping me just know. I know that that's not a cool thing to do. And please don't be that guy all right. We're going to wrap it up. We're going to get on Outta here. We've got all kinds of stuff planned. This week is kind of big for us because were launching all these episodes. We're going to get our pictures going and all that kind of stuff but Tune in next time for tales from the bar side Dover gets a tip your weights.

TA Lavonia Ed Frank Sinatra COSMO Bar Industry facebook Jackie Brown Jin Jin Lauren Jen Deniro Guy America Oh faulk detroit Lawrence Barnett Tan Samuel Jackson
861 Secret to Success + Asian Ginseng Tea

The Daily Meditation Podcast

14:03 min | 4 years ago

861 Secret to Success + Asian Ginseng Tea

"You are listening to episode eight hundred and sixty one welcome to the daily meditation podcast. I honor you for being exactly where you are. As you get ready to discover a meditation technique today as well as a meditation lifestyle technique, I'm marry medically and I'm a meditation guide, and I am excited to share today's meditation techniques that I encourage you to bring into your meditation and this is for a Friday's meditation. Every single Friday, I share a tea with you and herbal tea because the herbs are pretty powerful. They can help benefit you in a similar way as meditation techniques. So I call it sip and on Friday sipping. Is the name of my website. So you listen to the own part with the meditations, and I'd like to share a little bit about this sip part with you. I share a brand new meditation technique with you every single day here on the podcast as well as a lifestyle technique because it's not just meditation is a lifestyle. So I help you to we the benefits of meditation in to your everyday life. Now, you may love being guided in a meditation, and so if that is your case, maybe you don't really know how to meditate that's why I share meditation techniques because you can take these techniques whether you're seated meditating or into your busiest craziest moment of your day. So you have some options when you do a meditation technique. Will if you wanna be guided in a full meditation head over to my website at CYP and own dot com. It's SAP A N D O M dot com. And there you can receive two weeks of free guided meditations there the techniques I share with you here on the podcast in a full guided meditation there, so I play the music extra long, and you can sit and meditate after I guide you listening to the music or you can simply be guided and finisher meditation right than in there. You have lots of choices. So this is a subscription meditation program that I put up and it's actually called slowdown nation. So just head over there. You'll get a free two week trial. And see what you think if you like to be guided? Well, maybe. You're getting ready to do your own meditation. Here you want some meditation inspiration. So I'm going to start off two Helling. You a little about how you can use ginseng to help you as you continue with our series for this week the success meditation series, how to be successful. And then I'll show you how to use a meditation technique that will help you to have fun today is a Friday. I always encourage you for a meditation lifestyle to be sure to pursue your passions include some fun in your life. You've worked so hard all week you deserve to have a great time. So I encourage you to do something unusual today. Maybe something that you've been wanting to do and you haven't really got around to doing it. So go out and have fun. Be adventurous. Well, the herb as I mentioned is Asian ginseng, Asian, Jen sing is an herb that is sipped in a t all over Asia and has been sipped for thousands of years. Now, there's also American ginseng, and there are other kinds of Jensen, but American ginseng and Asian ginseng are the most popular will they do differ. American John seeing that I'm sharing with you today is thought to help you with the aging process because it has a lot of anti-oxidants those can help to crease stress and inflammation in your body. And that is always a great thing as you are getting older. And maybe you have a lot of wear and tear on your body. Ginseng tea can help you. Reduce these effects of stress, and it does this because it contains as many as twenty nine different Jensen asides. I hope I'm pronouncing that right? Whereas the other types of Jin seen only contain eight to nine and this is a greater to help lower your blood sugar and cholesterol and wanting it does which can help you as you focus on your goals and success this week and our success series helps to boost your memory. There've been a lot of studies done, and it's been shown to help boost your memory and thinking so consider giving Jensen try Asian Jensen. Now as always you want to check with your doctor before you take any kind of herb. And especially if you're taking other medications because herbs are powerful. And you wanna make sure that it is the herb for you. It's not going to harm you in any way. Well, I am excited to share a meditation technique with you today to help you with success. So you can go ahead and settle your self in to your meditation ritual and. I'll let you know. I've an amazing technique. You can do tell you, cultivate, a success mindset in your meditation today, you can take this technique into your meditation or into your every day life. So as you may be getting ready to meditate or maybe you're walking or lying down. However, you're listening. It's all good. We all start somewhere on this journey. Consider what area of your life? You would like to experience a feeling of success? Now, it's really a balancing act when we consider feeling successful. Because when we focus on a particular area. In our life. Then the other areas. Necessarily become neglected, but you're just not giving your full focus and attention to those areas. So if you're working on your health, you're really exercising and spending a lot of time taking great care of your body. Well, maybe you're not spending as much time with your loved ones or. On projects at work. Let's say or vice versa. AP really pouring your energy into your work. And it's not leaving new so much time to really do a lot of self care or spend time with loved ones. So if you consider. Focusing right now on an area of your life. Where you want to experience success? Just bring that to mind. Settle your body in start to notice where you're maybe holding tension or stress. Focus on. Why you could do? To move forward. In this area. How could you focus? On this area of your life. The reason I share a lifestyle focus at different one each day of the week. We try to think of the different major areas in your life. Your mindset your body. Your relationships your productivity. All of these areas. One for each day of the week, we focus on, and that's because it's a way for you, not to focus single heartedly on some area of your life and neglect other areas if you consciously. Focus on a particular area of your life each day. Then after a month or a few months, you notice that you feel pretty good and all areas of your life. There's always something going on. But you feel as though you're making progress. For friday. This is for our Friday meditation. This is when you focus on fun. It's usually the end of the week for most people, not everyone. And it's a great way to inject fine enjoyment into your life. We often worked so hard without really rewarding ourselves or. Maybe all the different events in the world. Where you live. Are very distracting, and before you know, it you can become. Accustomed to not really enjoying yourself. I can't become a habit where you don't really have a lot of fun. You're not really doing things that light you up for enjoyment. So as you're focused in your thinking about your goal. Why can you do to inject a little more fun? Into your life. Just notice that noticed how you feel? Could visualize yourself having fun. What your expression would look like on your face? Who you would be with? Maybe you haven't seen yourself. Look that way in a long time. How would you be holding your body? Which you feel successful. What having fun? Benefit the other areas of your life making you show up more, lively and engaged in all areas of your life. So today, give yourself a fun challenge. Go out and enjoy yourself. Take this technique this visualization into your meditation meditating, just to the point where you could go a little bit longer always ending your meditation high note, and as always you are so worth slowing down for.

Jensen SAP Jen John Jin Asia two weeks two week
LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 1, Episode 6: "House of the Rising Sun"

Post Show Recaps

2:47:25 hr | 1 year ago

LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 1, Episode 6: "House of the Rising Sun"

"Rate Look Chad. I need to talk to you. six talk talk took six. You lost is over but we have to go back down the hatch. It's the loss rewatch watch podcast here on poster capsule. Everybody I am Josh. I'm joined here by Mike Bloom and we need to talk to you about the House of the rising Sun Mike Loom how you doing. I'm doing good or as I should say two in June. Wow Oh my gosh look at you. Yeah I've studied up on my Korean and so maybe I should read you my introduction Josh. What do you mean yours? What is that it's me? It's ZILLION. It's me I'm speaking Korean. How did you change your voice like that? So you don't have that low register. Mike this is all I hired a decorator and they they secretly were teaching me. Korean eventually join a loss podcast talk about the quantum so I'd love to death. Oh my gosh okay so this is a very exciting episode of down the Hatch because you've been listening to every single episode is a spoiler filled loss rewatch podcasts where we are going through every single single episode in the lost catalog and talking it in a front to back spoiler filled way so if you've not seen lost all the way through urine danger here and that's the spoiler warning winning but you should be excited because we have not talked too much about the Kwan's about sun and Jin but we're going to talk about him a whole heap in lot not today and I can't wait because these are two Mike Bloomsbury favorite characters on the show. I obviously love Sun and Jin but nowhere near to the level that might bloom. Tom Has professed to love these characters in the past so I have a feeling we're in for a really fun show today. Yeah this is going to be very very interesting because I think people have certain images about Jenin son certainly in the beginning of the series particularly how Jin is portrayed I think in the middle especially once they get separated pretty much through seasons five and six we sort of regard them as separate characters not really knowing what to do with them. Come back together have simultaneously sweet yet angering being reconciliation and death considering the circumstances but have always been super interested in their relationship as I mentioned last time there's this really cool dynamic that loss us does of bringing pairs onto the island that know each other from off the plane as it were and Jenin son is one of them and you know even comparing this to two in translation which is the episode and getting to see things from both perspectives looking back on all these sun stuff all the flashbacks up in this episode the the complete picture also paints. Things are really really interesting not to mention. This episode has a boatload of things that you know you have a budget of things yeah but little B.'s these bs you got the stuff you've got the shirt load of BS and the lack thereof of shirts we have Jackson to move to the cave and the cave the beach schism. That's about to occur. We have the beginning of Charlie's withdrawal storyline. It's GONNA starts. It's really take effect with locks intervention so this is a surprisingly packed episode. Yeah I know it's tough coming down from the one two punch that is walkabout and white rabbit but I think this is another strong episode. In my opinion in almost every episode of loss is going to be a strong episode of my opinion like when we get to the four point two stars later on this episode. I think it should come as no surprise. I'm going to rank this a three or higher and I think that that's going to be the case for most episodes of lost for me but but I agree that this is a this is a better episode than I remembered. I regard this episode fairly fondly but there is more in here that I that I have given credit for coming back into it in this rewatch so we'll talk about all of that as Mike outlined a lot of different events to survey with series lasting ramifications like in the case the Adam and Eve stuff. I think that will lead to interesting discussion here today of course at some point deep into the podcast we are going to be getting into what you have for us you the listener sending in your feedback to US each and every week which we appreciate so much for our fifteen sixteen others section you can send your feedback if you do not know how at down the hatch at post show recaps dot com is our email address. You could also tweet at us. I'm at Ron Howard Mike at Mike Bloom type and make sure you are tagging post show recaps as well but the email addresses definitely the ideal format for your feedback or a reminder that we are recording these podcasts on Tuesdays so if you can get your feedback in by Tuesday morning ideally even Monday evenings that is that is the best way to make sure that you're making it onto the show. Though if we don't get you in time for the episode in question we do tend to pick up leftover questions for the next episode so you should be fine. Just send those questions in your comments your feedback your ratings for the four point right to stars sections which we will get to later on this week and of course subscribe if you have not done so already push recaps dot com slash down the hatch to get us on apple but you can find us on your podcast App of choice in your ratings and reviews still so appreciate you guys are being way too kind in all of that and it's is just such a delight and speaking of a delight Mike. This podcast is coming out just shy of the fifteen year anniversary anniversary of Law September twenty second two thousand four when lost premiered this podcast dropping within forty eight hours of that date. How are you planning on celebrating the fifteen year anniversary Mike I'm GonNa rock back and forth holding my license Kapadia singing five or fighting the entire day? That's a good yeah. That's a good way to do it. I am going to try to find a cave and lead many of my friends to it as possible and get had unreasonably angry when my wife decides not to join me make sure your shirtless while you do it I will definitely make sure either shirtless or wearing some sort of buttoned-down on without sleeves which is an awful look but I will. I will do it to channel my inner Jack Shepard all right. I wonder if Michael was the real trend setter in this regard injects like Oh yeah we can do that great. We'll really made its way around the island michaels get a really rock that look later on in this series all right. Let's go forth into the jungle. Let's talk about house of the rising sun which is directed by Michael. Zinn Berg has only credit as a director on lost its written by Javier grow marks watching is a one of the stalwart writers of the original run of loss in a man that we are quoting a lot as you're pulling the curtain back on behind the scenes details. This is an episode that aired on October Twenty seven two thousand and four not quite the fifteen year anniversary as we are recording this and it is an episode would that prominently features both Sun and Jin but as far as the centrisly flashback award does go to Sun Quan a- and Mike were finally getting her Kuantan. Yes let's flip that switch from quad to qualms no no so mike and I have talked about Sun and Jin in the past in a dedicated podcast back on lost lives which is the proto down the hat's a robust a catalogue of podcasts in the lost lives. The WASP lives ether however you're gonNA find that it's still exists. We know Oh that one listener at least went back and listened to our previous Jin and sun conversation before this current one we are about to have I have not gone back and listen to that so apologies in advance. If we end up being repetitive in any regards and I don't know if I should say sorry or just Kinda Shrug in the event that are are takes wildly wildly differ from from what they once. Were certainly a possibility for me. I completely agree. I mean it's also we talked about this. During our our preview podcast ask the last time we talked about these episodes was four years ago a lot of change in both of our lives since the great thing about losses that characters are at such different stages of their lives that every time you go back you notice something or maybe I carry around with you differently. One of the reasons why I fell in love with Sun. Jin Is the very first time I watched it. I wasn't exactly burning the torch for them. As much as I am now I think it's because when I was watching those episodes around the time that lost lives came back it was around on the time that I was about to get married and admittedly the first run loss Mike Bloom bizarre not a heartless romantic heartless a passionate romantic as he might be today that there is something about a marriage a couple even though it might be on the rocks at the outset that has deeply seated love for each other figuring things exile in the course of this chaotic sometimes maniacal island. I think is something that's always really interested in their relationships has been one of the ones that I've always been drawn into just because of the history behind it and how that pass translates to the present on the island and also the future quite literally in the way that you know some things transpire all right so one of the things that we've been doing here as we've been reaching the character centric episodes for the first time for some of these players we've been going back to the series Bible and seeing what was written about them. What were the bare bone essentials of these characters before they started getting really fleshed out over the course of the series so let's let's before we even get into the summary of the episode? I think what set the table in that way. This is what was written about sun in the original series Bible that was concocted right after the pilot. This is what it says. The daughter of a wealthy South Korean auto parts magnate son went to college and fell in love with free spirited fellow student and Jen Apple after their marriage Jin changed eventually becoming harsh and distant as relegated son to give up her own aspirations wins in favor of a more traditional life in other words a glorified servant this bursts onto the buys an exit strategy for the past two years. She has secretly been learning earning English which is in capital letters for some reason really WanNa make sure that like I'm surprised for the John Locke when he's yeah son has been learning English planning to ditch gin in Los Angeles to stay with a cousin sons skills with eastern medicine may just be her ticket to a new life. The plane crash has shattered suns plans but not her resolve now freed of the cultural and familial chains which have kept her passive sons suns evolution as an independent woman has officially begun. Wow Okay so obviously a couple of interesting tenants that obviously stuck around that seems to be a recurring theme with some all of these series Bible proverbs. I guess I'll call them. From the book of Sun I cannot Imagine Jen Quan as like a hippy dippy. The Free Spirit College Student Son Falls in love with well that being said I mean we are not treated to Jin's like progress. During the three years years he lives in the seventies before everybody returns to the island and in that time I mean he learns how to speak English fluently. It is like the like the very floral oral Dharma peace love. Make Love Not War years so you you gotta wonder like how hippy dippy degen get especially like hanging out with Sawyer. I'm sure they had some sweet Dermot Kush passing around the barracks so I think maybe Jin being a free spirited did student actually is that probably happened just screen yeah. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. I'm so glad that ginger time to learn English glass eventually eventually. This isn't a gin flashback episode but since we're talking about son and we will be talking about gin so much do you want to should we read from from Jin's passage from the series Bible just to to get both of those on the record here yes because I want to find out how he turned up in Korean Sarah Lawrence apparently all right so this is what they wrote about Jin Jin was born into an impoverished family in a fishing village in Southern Korea after meeting Sun the spirited daughter of the most powerful auto magnet in the country Jin fell deeply in love unfortunately due to fierce class system son's father refused to give his permission for the to marry unless us of course Jin was willing to play ball the result was a foster deal Japan promising to keep son squarely within the strict confines of Korean Society in exchange for a high paying high ranking job while the agreement afforded Jin. VIP treatment it left Sun Betrayed Jin is preoccupied but what he he considers a far greater betrayal his wife's inability to conceive shout that because it's all in caps what inability to convert I just really lots of exclamations here. They really want to stress the big shock points. Don't tell this person your secrets whoever they're going to put it all calves. They're gonNA shout them. From volcanic rooftops on the island his own inability to communicate with the others is balanced by his knowledge of the ocean and his knack for capturing marine green life for food but when he realizes he must now rely on his wife he must choose between attempting to regain her love or fall prey to the dangerous solar of the islands. Someone's dark influence okay so those are the early early sketches of Sun and Jin just sweeping over that Mike what holds true were you from like the original premises if these characters across the series and what do you feel like they pitched out here. That never really caught a fire. Well I mean I've I'm looking at Suns Exit. Strategy we find on this episode. Obviously it was not get on the plane flight to Los Angeles and you know ditch Jin lay in fact that was Jin's plan as we'll find out in dot dot dot in translation for him and son to escape Mr peixe GRASP ASP by hiding out in California in America. I don't know about Sun Skills with eastern medicine. I can't remember if that's a building. She does end up she assists she assists Jack during the first of all during Boone when when boone that's right the doors attempt at resuscitation but also as soon as confidence man right like she's the one who eventually helps Jack with Shannon Shannon's asthma. She's able to like right yes yes. She was up the leaf and puts it in her mouth out to chew on right so I think that there's a lot of times where she is at least if not performing like chief surgery she is like the most competently capable a person to assist Jack at least until Juliet shows yes so I would say though I don't know if necessarily the whole thing about you know Jin forcing horsing son within the confines of Korean society is a desert certainly something that was focused on. I think it's more so focused on their relationship than how does son exist in the maybe the more male centric Korean society. I feel like something that they really underlying both in these problems even though they didn't put it in caps are is the classism of it all and that's something always really enjoyed about the sun engine story as well. It feels like the only loss story that really talks about that sort of you know the the the division of the classes and the fact of the matter is like it's the island that doesn't really exist anymore but to sort of see like you know this unlikely romance between seen a rich girl and a boy is a cool idea in terms of romantic story and also says a lot and also drives a lot of Jin's volition in terms of how can you exist society that favors men as the leaders of the household when you are so much lower in terms of financial status then your wife which I think is another reason why Jin causes makes this as they say Faustian deal so I feel like that's the big tenant that's held throughout this also obviously there are a fertility issues but it is Jen's part not on son's yeah but I mean he's lied to about it right because the doctor's like if I tell Jin he's GonNa break my kneecaps. I can't tell him but I think it's interesting that they have that on the map already at this point that issue is going to be a fairly big deal and it makes you wonder how how much they knew that they were gonNA. They were going to get into that territory that there was difficulty on the island conceiving children that tends not to work out very well and that's going to be a big part of why Claire Becomes a person of interest this season and it's eventually going to tie in pretty importantly at least in the Sun Jin Storyline vitally so I think that's I think that's cool. That's that's in here already. before we even get in to the summary We do have a note here some feedback feedback that we got from Trevor Roberts intrepid listener of down the hatch and I think that it's just a good incentive for as we are about to embark on the love story of Jin and sun maybe not so much of the love through this early portion of loss but trevor writes in and says this series was airing when my now twenty year marriage was in its infancy stages and the often tragic but just as often uplifting love story of Sun and Jin well it would and still does make me you cry like a little girl so I I love that and I do think that there is something that is just there's a lot of emotional fragility to the sun on engines storyline that I think I tap into more now as an older viewer of lost when I when I was watching this show at the at at the outset the first couple of years of the show I was I was single. There was a serious relationship wasn't even on the mind season three rolled around and I was embarking barking on what would end up being the relationship that has defined my life my my marriage to emily watching sausage in now these days as a married person person I do have I do have I do get the fields in a way that I don't think that I got all the way through and it'll be fun to chart here as we as we talk about uninjured throughout down hatch. I think your life invariably changes when there is someone else in your life who lack of a better term you have to care about someone else who you you really need to think about each and every moment and support and keep secure no matter what that means and I think at the end of the day that is what drives son engines relationship ship. It's just a matter of for lack of a better term communication. It's a matter of them withholding certain pieces of information from each other and how that still buys into this idea of securing and supporting one another even if it leads to their own degradation yeah absolutely all right. Let's talk about it. Let's get into into the episode. It's self this house of the rising sun and we open on an I because of course we open on an eye as we so often do and it is the I of Sun Quan and there's beautiful music playing a theory. Oh music from Michael G Aquino this glorious score that is that is just so serenely playing in the background and really matches sort of loose serenity of the moment you know oh like she's sniffing a flower. She's off by herself and then it starts getting interrupted as Jin is just like he's he's off. Fishing son is having what we perceive at the time to be these like miscommunication issues where she sees other people talking and like the audio quality is like a little bit foggy to get you you into the sense of like Oh. She doesn't know what everybody is talking about. Of course we know better having gone through the full episode and the full extent of loss but very quickly leap from her point of view we settle on Jack and Kate and I think that this is something that I had forgotten about house of the rising sun is even though this is a son flashback episode. It's just as much and maybe more so there's like a island story is the plot where this idea of like. Should we stay or should we go. Should we go to the caves or should we stay stay at the peach each and that begins here with Jack and Kate basically right away as they are preparing for a hike into the jungle with Charlie unlock and Kate is already already viciously mocking Jack his tattoos well now conserved won't read about the proverb from Jack last week. This was something that was very prominent went in the character and trump but I feel like sun. I'd be like well. Maybe I know I kind of wish. I didn't need to know English because I don't necessarily need to watch these to everyone. Else unfortunately has to be privy to these two flirting with one another. That's another thing that I think we forget about is this is I think the first outright dalliance into a jacking kate perspective respective romance. It's going to be on the rocks very quickly by the end of this episode at least temporarily speaking but at this moment they're getting real cushy with one another to the point. Where are you know as Charlie says they now have a quote unquote inside joke about Jack's tattoos and inability to fly kites yeah? I know that we make fun of Jackson. Tattoos allow we've already thirty gave given him a little bit of Gopher this earlier in the podcast. This sat down for a moment to C- Shirt is awful. The shirt that Jack is wearing awful. We've really downgraded from Mike Dr Survivor buff to this like sleeveless red checkered button-down shirt and this is a horrible look on Jack that Iraq's occasionally and I just hate it. I feel like I should be out here in front as we've lost bashing police watch. I think this is one of the worst Jack Shepherd looks. Is this shirt he's wearing in this episode. It looks like he's going to Ah lumberjack-themed lumberjack-themed fraternity LUMBERJACK SEPHERD lumberjack shepherd. I think that's the look he's going for. Later back feared that would be so much better. I'm the leader now I must i. I'm like Paul Bunyan. I can fell trees kate. You can be my baby. No my God lumberjack shepherd is happening and it's awful and I hate it and it's like I don't get the tattoos. I don't understand the tattoos. I didn't know that spinal surgeons were so hard core and Jackson. Oh Yeah I'm hardcore. You have no idea you have no idea how hard core I am yeah and then Charlie refers to this as verbal copulation and somewhere further down the Beach Ronnie Ronnie round houses ears are perked up is like ooh. I don't think he knows what that word means so maybe he just they sound sexy enough that he's like all right. I got Ya yeah. He's as bill it. It used to be on it so they're gonNA go out on a jungle trek with the Great White Hunter John Locke and Charlie is GonNa meet. We feel like even though there's four of them he's probably repealing little third whealy because yeah because locks just wheel. That's completely off his motorcycle. He's a UNICYCLE. asked for hunting unicycle riding off into the Juggle on his audit. Charlie hates that Jackie Kate already have inside jokes because how absolutely wonderful for you both this is a very fun Charlie episode I think after and males a little tinge of jealousy you know he struck out with Shannon. I think he's trying very slowly with Clare. We'll see him really slow play that surprisingly over the course of the first season but you know he was thirstiest among them even though everyone's pretty thirsty right now which is why they're getting all those water bottles from the from the waterfalls yeah okay so they're going to go off to the Cave Cisco about the caves and get some water. Meanwhile son is GonNa Watch them. Walk off. Jin is now like disrupting her moment of serenity by smashing smashing a fish against the wing of a plane listen Mike I obviously you and I have some limited experience. In the ocean. A smidge were once then we were about a year ago but even then we are much more Hurley and Charlie than we are and when it comes to catching fish in the ocean I think much more likely to step on a sea Urchin in need to have our feet pete upon than we are to catching any fish on a deserted island. So who am I to judge Judge Against Jin. Who is the expert fishermen putting out the call right now? The Fish Signal is flaring up in the air. If you're a fisherman or or fisherwoman or if you are if you are monger a fishmonger of any kind and if you can explain to us in the feedback sessions per next week you want a gin is just ruthlessly smashing fish against the wing of a plane. Is he like visceral the guts. Is that what he's doing like is he like he adding so much like velocity and force listen you know I skipped astrology or astronomy rather to the point that I just just call it. Astrology say maybe that maybe that's why you just didn't know what the course was the entire and I am the son of a scientist so I really ought to know science better. Is there a scientific method to why Judas destroying the fish so he will be able to gut it more easily hypothesis but if you listener r a fisher person please let us know because out of context Jinja's bashing the Fisher gets. The wing of a plane is so needlessly agro just needs. It's about beer. Maybe genus flexing for what he's about to do to Mike Yeah. Maybe it's like a warm up act like how rocky would punch beef to facetime Apollo creed yeah like this. This is him running up the stairs right ahead into a huge fight so he just needs to Jack himself up. I'm here for key yeah. This is what's happening. This is happening all right if we get our first flashback and it's this cocktail reception where Jin is a waiter and he's serving son some champagne and he has a Napkin which clearly has a note on it and I I've always loved that scene like immediately just illustrates the dynamic between these two this scene as well as many other scenes throughout lost and even even the scene later on in the episode. WE'RE GONNA GO TO MR PAIK to ask for son's hand in marriage in temple. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly on Oahu in Hawaii. I've been lucky enough to visit this location a couple of times. Actually it's gorgeous. It's sunny. There's really no surprise that lost wanted to film here as much inches it possibly could have caused played by bringing Emily Champagne. No I haven't I really do there is not. There's a non zero possibility that I will find yourselves there again some day. You'll have to remind me to bring the champagne. At that point. There is a pagoda where much like gin son we could secretly meet and what to run away. Although in Arkansas we'd be running away to since we're already Americans but that's the plan that Sun and Jin are talking about `bout when they meet up they want to they want to get out of here and want to leave. They want to go to America. Jin doesn't WanNa do this. He doesn't want to just he doesn't want to just elope and leave. He wants to do the traditional right way. Because he is a man of tradition. I mean considering. I think how nontraditional the relationship is. I think it makes sense from John's perspective is part of cream culture at the end of the day and I think he wants to hold to that. Can we stop down and talk about how frigging awesome it is is that there's an entire set of characters whose flashbacks don't have one iota of English. Yes yes it is just I know that you know orange is the new black is another on their show that really brings in a lot of multicultural aspects but fray two thousand four network TV show that is awesome that is so unconventional to just especially in episodes like this at least a third of your airtime just pure subtitles with Korean lines over them. It's a really cool thing it makes you feel L. More lived in the moment than to be like Oh. Yes you know they're speaking English. Even though I guess we're to assume that you know they're speaking Korean or they just happen to know English so while they can talk in both languages I really we're GONNA get into the portrayal of Korean culture on the show later on in the podcast but it is it is worth noting right now like the subtitles titles for Korean really only come out when it's like Sun injin talking to each other organic to Korean characters are multiple Korean characters. The subtitles are not present when it sun and Jin talking in the company of the other survivors of the plane. It's only when they are together so that we're like invited into their head space. I think that the way that the show paints this is so beautiful folks we're going to do the eight sounds. We're GONNA. We're GONNA do it in this section again. I think that that's GonNa be a permanent move. That seems to be a popular decision that we did in the last episode and I I certainly like it a lot for flow and even though that this is a Jin and sun centric episode we're not GonNa call too much upon the scenes in which they are speaking Korean to each other. We will make an exception to that but I just have to say. It's even without understanding the language which apparently you do now Mike I i. I didn't know that you had taken you become fluent in Korean in the time since we last spoke to each other I think that the I think that the just the emotional reactions between these characters and the facial expressions and the inflections in their voice tells you so so much about their dynamics. I don't think that enough is said about engine Kim and Daniel Day Kim as actors they are astonishing performers and so much of what we love about about these characters it comes from the writing but as with as with just about everything here on lost for me it all starts with performance. That's what drives the character actor and it's just it's exceptional here this scene where they're talking to each other about how they can't run away. Jin wants to make her father understand. He has a flower for her and sons face. Just like it it just like it curls up into this beautiful smile just being so touched by the moment in Jin saying I wish wishes was a diamond as we come to find out from Sun through the episode like she doesn't need the diamond. That's what she wants. She wants this stuff. She wants the flour from from gin and it's just it's driven so perfectly by the performances. I can't say enough about how great they are. Yeah I mean they I it makes the little sad that for the latter half of the series are separated because they also worked so well off of one point where I mean I for lack of sounding of twos you look at the last name I like. You're like wait are they. A real life married couple because they just fit in so well together. I mean on that note about the flower though it goes back to what I think is a really apropos first line in the Jn flashbacks which chins first words to sun are would you like some champagne yeah and I think it's very indicative of the fact that this is a guy who feels that he knows what his wife wants and needs certainly makes assumptions best based on her background and her class status and he's he says you know no matter where I'm coming from. It is my duty to provide that for you and I'm going to and I think that's unfortunately what's going to get Jin sort of track do some things that he doesn't want to do but that's you know that fills in his immediacy to say Ariza adamancy to say. I'm going to give you a diamond no matter what even though cheer points son says I don't necessarily need that I might have grown up rich but I fell fell in love with you for you not because of any sort of price tag that might be attached to you that Bostian deal. That's going to drive son to learn English. I also like the first scene we ever see of Jin and sun as a couple in flashback form. son is drowning in champagne and the last time we will see them in their mortal form. At least they will just be drowning period. There might be a little champagne in that. We don't know we don't know we don't know okay well. The beautiful for moment is ruined when we smash back into the present and Jin is all tweaked out he's done smashing the fish and he just slams. This is put down on one of these plants. That son is cultivating. He ruins the flower which is a great dichotomy from the beautiful flower he gifted son way back in the day and he just last year runs out and we see Michael And walt who are walking down the beach Michael notably wearing a new watch which I think it's a bit of an eyesore on on the re watch the watch is that you noticed like Oh there it is I should've noticed that the first time but Jin sees it and Jin is just GonNa he's GonNa Tackle Michael and just start kicking the ever loving snot at even like Ha- smashes wall out of the way everyone's screaming and you get the Great Rape Mon of Son Screaming at the top of her lungs is gin is starting to drown Michael. This is aggressive even for Jin who is a capable fighter this is this is too much well. Here's my theory about it and you know far for me to be a huge defender because I think especially in the first half of season one. He's not shown in the best light purposely so he's in that Sawyer category of life. Hey he's a cad but he'll he'll he'll come around on you but I mean I wonder under. Let's remember in exodus when you know he gets accosted by that guy in the Hawaiian shirt in the bathroom who essentially you know Kinda spooks Gin and if they get people around him might be affiliated with Paik Without Him knowing it and that very much puts them on edge for this plane of him really trying to escape under his thumb I mean could it be a thing. Where are you know we'll talk more about son feel like Oh? It's an honor thing for Jin to have the watch. Could it be the Jin's just like frightened beyond his life that if he loses that watch watch somebody who's going to notice and might take it out on him and her that he's just so paranoid that Paik has infiltrated the people around him that there's a very chance chance he could suffer the consequences even the dire circumstances that them being stranded on an island. Look you siding with Jin over a fellow Michael. Mike Bloom to be Faira uh-huh this fellow Michael is an exactly the MVP points. I think speak for the fellow Michael. Yes sure sure sure I love Michael but I don't think that they were necessarily early on fair. I like the theory. I think that's good. I think that you still see a lot of these people. Behaving in ways of like what if we get rescued any day now and certainly Jin does not know anything about the radio transmission so he has every reason to the I mean he doesn't know much about anything he has not been communicated with really at all so I like that I think he's just like hyper paranoid that Michael Harold Perrineau that he has this watching like if they're going to get rescued and he's going to need to get the watch back. that works for me all right after the credits we see we return immediately to this brawl on the beach and its site and Sawyer who are gonNA come sprinting in from out of in order to Stop Jin because nobody else is doing anything. Gawkers be gawking Mike Gawkers. Have you learned your lesson. Somebody died because of you. The blood is on your hands you weren't you can't watch it off like Gin and right now. Someone is killing someone and frog of you now number fifty to one and do something it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Is it too early to already issue with demerit on the gawkers. They're clearly losing their getting another. Lv Point Yeah I I ah spoiler alert. They absolutely are quite maybe splitting them is GonNa things even worse because now out of gawker points to give out but yeah I mean gawkers Israel like Oh for two right now. Though I do love the unlikely pairing mean these were two guys are inside who had their own beachside brawl the first couple of days and now they're the ones that are partnering up to to break it all up. Maybe foreshadowing sawyers sideways career as a cop. Yeah I mean listen. The good news is these gawkers are basically all going to die so they're gonNA. They're gonNA get what's coming to him. Eventually you know they should have said something. If you see some say something or you end up getting flaming arrows shot in your chest by time traveling others. There's that's really what the posters should say yeah. That's the poster for for lost but Sawyer Sawyer at saieed teaming up actually as sawyer actually actually doing something helpful throws side handcuffs when sites like give me the handcuffs the marshalls handcuffs doesn't put up any fight and I think this is an early sign Sawyer being like somebody who actually can be reasonable in a crisis in Korman's. I wonder why he had the handcuffs though it just hangs on in case I I mean one of his favorite props I will I was gonNA say. I don't know if he's looking to do anything but it'd be very interesting. I mean maybe sawyer sort of has a very interesting fast fast. It's his personality but it's interesting you point that out because I know that every week there's a lot of cut material that comes out about the episode's apparently in the material so there was supposed to pause us and take a momentary hesitation before handing the handcuffs over so I see your point about there being some character progress especially between him inside post apple tossed but maybe the original draft didn't necessarily have him push that far. I'm glad that they changed it. I I think it's a good character. Note here that like in a moment like this in a moment where it's like yeah we gotta use the handcuffs otherwise it's going to be absolute. Swoop Pandemonium here on the beach that push come to shove quite literally in this case Sawyer is is willing to play ball. I mean he's inconsistent with this as soon as Oh really soon from now so you know it's it's slow progress. You know it's like one step forward four steps back. I also love how after after they handcuffed into the plane sidewalks right up to send it goes what happened and she's not talking but come on just between us like you definitely totally speak English just talk to me human lie detector Sidra Yeah. I really liked that as well because it speaks to you know what happened last episode when they cost Jan about having the water. I think that he's the one who stole it and site. You just had a very lingering look at Sun. I don't know exactly what he observes from her observing but he's very much onto it. I think if if she had approached Saieed instead of Michael The post commercial break would have been yeah. I know that's a flashback yeah all right in the jungle. Let's see what's going on. The jungle ongole. Jack leads every bit of the caves. There's this epic music that swirling they'll walk into the caves and yeah and lock says or Charlie lack of this place is amazing. It's totally you and he's not far off because it's totally the man in black's original house. Yeah I love that that's one of those things that like you know. They weren't scheduling at at the time but looking back on it. It's really fun convenient line as we're doing the long gone here right like I said. I think that's a fun one for sure yes jack does. Does everybody like keep an eye out. There's medical supplies that we need drugs in particular in charge like drugs drugs drugs. He's like one of the seagulls in finding in finding the mine and the dirt gritty Ru boot finding nemo that they'll do eventually it'll be the drug see the seagull drugs and like literally even just hearing the Word Drugs Charlie. It has to go off and do some drugs so he leaves everybody. He goes like reload on the heroin and Locke shows up when he's going to use and and Charlie is not thrilled about this. He doesn't like that. This man has just followed him. You don't move but it's not because he's trying to knock him out. It's because well maybe you like lock has his eye on Charlie and he wants to do some stuff with Charlie but it right now what he really wants more than anything is to save Charlie from imminent be the death because Charlie has stepped on a beehive which is like a basically a land mine and he has this irrational fear of surgically so this begins the BB plot of the episode all right. Here's a crazy theory for your Josh to follow up my paranoid paranoid Jin thoughts what if the man in black took the form of the bees oh the bees we're going to lead Jack and Kate to Adam and Eve which I'd like to think the man in black would want them to discover whether to scare them off to sort of. I don't know asked him a bit paranoid about what the history of the island is could be the man in black the man. NBC's took the form of these little buggies to drive five people away maybe inflict pain on Charlie just for fun and eventually Lee Jack and kate to these caves to make them take up residence. Well doesn't in in expose and someone correct me if I'm wrong on this is it is the implication at the end that the smoke monster takes the form of the swarm of Medusa spiders or that the smoke monster like shoes the Medusa spiders out of the jungle in six them on on Nikki and Paulo. I if it's the first thing and the the monster can take the form of a small army of produces spiders then you would assume that it's because there's a bunch of dead Medusa spiders on the the island and it is copying it's dead. They're dead form and so what if these are undamaged smoke monster bees that we're dealing with here then I think Charlie's irrational fear is quite well founded in this case. The MIB are definitely worth fearing yeah. I think I think we are are another part of the long wreck kind of examining the men in black quote unquote roles and I guess we have to see how much has shape shifting to what extent does it go to can you take the form arm of bees or does he just have to take the former of humans yeah all right well. Let's go back to the beach and let's actually bring in our first of the eight sounds downs of the took us a while to get here as we get back to just to set the stage of what we're GONNA listen to. Its everybody kind of like trying to figure out what to do about the GIN and Michael Situation Tempers Tempers are still flaring Michael is still pissed off. Michael feels like he's being a victim blamed here and it's going to lead us into like a fairly racially tense conversation nation that I think is really fascinating for loss to be having especially in two thousand and four especially still sadly resonant. Today I think one of one of my favorite season one scene gene so let's turn it to turn it to the gang back at the beach. I'm getting tired of say this. I'll just walking the beach of my son and and all of a sudden this dude is all up on me. I didn't do anything she saw. Surely there must be something not surely from them to create Iraq okay. I don't know how it is in Iraq but in the United States of America well I'm from Korean. People don't like black people. Do you know that so. Maybe you ought to talk to skip them. CK cuff stay on Louder Omar. Maybe then she'll understand you guys that Chinese US going to pretty crispy out here. I'M GONNA keep in tight down like that. He tried to kill Michael. We all saw it because they on and do we know why so like you mentioned. It's a really interesting moment that I think we sort of wash over. I guess positively so in that you do see Michael and Jin come together by the end of the season. They're the ones who get on the raft along with Sawyer. It seems like they sort of built. A Bridge amid see very badly miscommunicated mutated beating that starts off this episode but like you said the fact that they brought up the Korean black dynamic which I think mainly is referenced in the Rodney King Riots. I don't know if there are any other major events that that really talk about it but it's a really interesting thing. That's that's brought into this. I know that Havi air when he was talking about this episode wanted to bring it up because he essentially wanted to talk about this idea that you know the the island is this catalyst for all this baggage that people brought in and yeah you can imagine as a black man in America even back then someone who immuno has to bring in this sort of wariness of how people act against him and how it might be because of the color of his skin and how that might manifest itself on the island quite frankly. I'm surprised it doesn't get brought up more the like you said it's two thousand four. I don't necessarily those conversations were happening. This show took a lot of risks on network ATV in the early two thousands that might be one bridge too far but I think it's a really interesting thing that gets brought up and not really touched upon again the history of lost well. It's just it's very tense and it's very layered. Were even like someone as wonderful as Hurley Calls Jin like the Chinese dude he's. He's like getting it very wrong and no yeah especially since Michael legitimately refers to him as Korean and then Hurley comes in and call some Chinese nary three lines later right and Sawyer who has just like had barely heroic moment or at least close to most heroic moment yet calling saieed Omar is not a great look for Sawyer if not in Tyre surprising but then they could've then he should've yelled when they were running down the beach Omar's come before God that'd be I would love to see the Omar from the wire on the island indeed I would love that I would I would love to make him an Omar other with him whistling farmer in the Dell wearing a fake beard all right rich rich Vilbert so if you're listening take notes for the next episode of lost. Rpg We want Mike Okay William's character in the RPG but no I I think this is. I think that this is a really it's an important and like relatively unique seen in las as you say well. This isn't territory that they really go into a lot. We'll talk about this a a little more in the feedback section but I think just highway here replaying the scene the line delivery I love the anger in Harold Perrineau voices he's just so frustrated traded and it's like so sick of this like these feelings that followed him in his entire life trickling out here on the island I'm feeling like he stopped being listened to in this moment on that side wouldn't be able to relate because he's not from America. He doesn't understand some of the dynamics that are at play even when he's like being challenged on where he's from sort of like the escalation in his tone is really really fantastic and I think what's what's great great about it is these are for the most part all the way down the line but for the most part these are going to end up being people who are vitally important to each other and despite the fact that they we come from very different backgrounds in the fact that they've had buried different life experiences they are going to find common ground and shared destiny in many ways on this island wind intertwined fates in all of that good Lawsti and stuff and so I have contrasted against a moment like that is like this one is is good stuff we'll talk about it more in the in the feedback section. Let's get to our next flashback episode and actually let's get to our second sound of the eight sounds here. This is going to be a scene that is presented mostly if not entirely in Korean but I think one of the reasons why I wanNA play this one is again just to convey eh the incredible emotion. That's just invoices of Daniel. They came in your engine Kim. This is the scene where Jin and sun are going to meet up. Just after Jin has gotten permission from son's father for her hand in marriage and I adored this scene so so so much how can in my let's SPA. Go Woah hit you. You Ain't on your the dot grill will meaning killing you keep civil because I saw it has they so so so that's the that's the thing and this is a get another plug for the gym fells accompanying video here he points out that you know there is a son on Injin Motif that Michael Jake you know put in throughout this episode and obviously I it uses a lot of Asian instrumentals and influences a a but it's really fun thing about it is it's versatility where and that scene you know it's used during really beautiful moments where expressing their fondness for each other but when we get to the scene where Jin walks in covered in blood this thing comes back but it's board disturbing and violent so it's a really great symbol of how you know the the tune of their relationship is literally changing over the course of this time in his continued involvement and pick enterprises but your engine Kim has this amazing expression on her face as the flashback closes when you know she's hugging Jan and she's looking at the ring which is simultaneously ecstatic yet shocked yet worried because as much as Jin is going to try to cover up you know what he's actually doing for her father. She's fully aware of what he's capable double of and that's why she was so hesitant to have him. You know get involved in this. No matter how persistent is in making sure he gets his good graces so you know we can talk later on about her feelings towards him as he gets further and further down that rabbit hole but it's just a wonderfully complicated facial expression that gets pulled off so well from a fantastic nick performer. Yeah I just love it all right in the present we go back to the jungle and like they're trying to trap the bees and there's a great line as trials. He's like freaking out and lock looks at pull yourself together. Son Speaking to Charlie Not Sun Quan and Charlie is not going to be able to pull himself together. He's in in fact a break. The HIVE and everybody goes running like a scene straight OUTTA. Tommy boy are everywhere. Your firearms are useless against them. Not the Jackie Cain are going to run into the into caves. They're gonNA take their shirts off along the way because it is TV after all and we got to get those sexy sexy ratings this literally the only reason why this happens nothing turns anyone on more than skip slipping down to your skivvies while escaping B.'s yes so then shirtless these two shirtless survivors are going to find themselves in the thick of the caves and they are going to be confronted with some shirt clad glad skeletons some some shirts that have been degrading for like fifty years or so roughly give or take forty to fifty couple centuries or so thousand years. Maybe who knows exactly how long but in a while 'cause the writer certainly delicate points yeah so these these are the skeletal remains of Allison Janney Titus well over or at least the characters they play on loss that we do not know that quite yet we are going to come to though them mm-hmm as Adam and eve and this is going to be one of the great enduring mysteries of wasps for a very long time that is going to be resolved with an answer that not everybody loves. You know we didn't have the Internet so that not everyone loves in an episode that is that is risen the ranks at my estimation but only because of the way that I've hacked it right only the ways that like I feel like I've come to I've come into like my own level of peace with across the sea. I thought they were B.'s. He's across the bees not everybody's cup of tea to keep saying letters. I don't know I'll just say p because that rhymes yeah and I think that that was probably Charlie excuse to go do drugs right later on when she had to go pee yes. I think that that's correct post. Be is just using blue but yeah so this is Adam and eve. Jack can't do an autopsy but someone to lay them to rest year. This is a burial ground for them and they're like well. How did they get get here? Jackson did and the polar bear pop up last week. How that get here? It's like I think that the polar bears still weirder than the two dead bodies would be my feeling. I feel like a really doesn't belong here. Maybe some sort of human being belongs on the island. I don't think that that's quite as unbelievable as the polar bear yeah. I mean especially since you know team. Seaver knows that there are people who were on the island before and to the point where when Charlie comes in he almost blows the lid off the big line of like hey. It's those people that we heard on the radio get devoured powered by something previously on this island so I think it's an easy assumption with these initial theories that these were two people who lived on the island we have evidence about polar bears polar bears don't belong in the jungle people do by comparison right okay and in the pockets of Adam and eve of black rock and a white rock not the black rock. Could you imagine a ship in a bottle I can imagine it now not as quite as matic and symbolic and as compelling as the recurring Katif of the black rock and I would love that though if they had to go to the little ship and get little teeny pieces of dynamite outta them and just have to carry them so precariously between their fingers fingers yeah. I think that the pieces of our would be a lot smaller like how that singed my skin a little bit how it boned so lock and Charlie. They'RE GONNA show up there to be like what's going on here. There's like the whole joke about the BS and CS Charlie Charlie. This is why you you'll have people with inside jokes tab. I Know Yeah Charlie being like I thought they were filled with CS actually ED K. It's like dude. Come on strike seven. That's all right. I don't know you out at this point in cricket. I'm not sure Eddie Eddie chance that it's and it's over of course in real life. I think around this time evangeline lilly and Dominic Monaghan were dating which is so funny when when you think about their characters here and like Charlie being such a doofus here that's tha that's not gonNa play well with just about anybody. Do you wonder if traffic and be like Oh. I said this thing to TV last night so they bring in to the episode. No I don't know I don't want to put US Great Zinger. I don't know about that who knows sudas. I love with lock shows up and he goes who were these men. I just love Terry Quinn's line delivery in this episode as always and he's the one who coins the the names are very own Adam and eve and of course we know that this is never going to get the names of these characters the the man in black and its mother wanted to just call them Adam and eve like is that there is that their names from now on or are we not feeling like we should name them as such. I feel like that implies a different type of relationship between them. Maybe we can find another mother son Biblical pairing that might be better like Mary and Jesus Marriage Yeah Yeah very own. Mary Jesus Mary and Jesus. No Marius Charlie back. Beach Jin is still he's handcuffed uncuffed. He's boiling in the Sun. Sun Is trying to try help son is boiling to she's doing well. She's like alowing his wrist. He's really resistant. We flash back once again. This is clearly post. Marriage son gets home and there is a present awaiting her and it's a it's a jog the Sharpei pay Bobo. Yes good dog game. I love the great great mysteries as of losses that Bopha and visit never got to meet up well good dog. I feel like Bobo would be like the Hurley if the island with Vince I feel like there's like a Jack Jack Yeah. I think there's a certain type of dog and I don't want to be species this but if there's a breed asked there's a certain type of dog that I think can acclimate itself to the wilds of the jungle. I don't know offers Sharpei. We'll be able to tough it out there. You you underestimate Boko at your own peril my friend. You know what knowing knowing his father I think Bobo could be a secret secret bad ass yeah. You never know never like I do it for us yet. Could you imagine if like gin he beat up that guy he couldn't kill walks home and sees the guy just completely eviscerated and there's Bobo holding the knife yeah. Do we ever get a back story. I'm sure I feel like we do just even saying this. Do we get back sir. How Jin got the dog yes? He actually just what I spoke about. He was asked to quote unquote. Send a message by mistake in translation and he just beats him up or he just sends the message and the guy is so grateful that he gives his todd right right right. That's that's that's. That's how it gets the dog of God both of us be so confused second grade. That's not my parents but was a little puppy at the point and yeah exactly exactly very impressionable Jin's like I got you a dog. I thought you'd be lonely. You're going to have to feed it and train it and cool. Thanks gene and ask through those responsibility yeah. He's cute but the minute he starts pooping everywhere. I'm going to be really lamenting this gin. I later on in season two didn't and found when son is looking for the the wedding ring that's missing and she's going to remember her dog with Hurley and and she's going to talk about 'cause the she's going to wait to see if like Vincent's go poop out the ring and she remembers Bobo very fondly and when Hurley says Bobo. What does it mean? She was a kiss. I always loved that. I always always yeah look. Here's the thing I know that again. If you look at things just from these flashbacks Janet I'm really looks all use the term abusive not maybe not physically so but definitely emotionally so but I think given the context and given what he's trying to do having the right intentions I I appreciate Ah I appreciate what he's trying to do if only because he brings Bobo into our world and a world without Bobo a world that I don't WanNa live in it's not worth living all right back at the caves locks to stay behind. He and Charlie are going to salvage some wreckage. He wants to get to know Charlie Better Jackie. We're going to bring water back to the beach. Jack is smiling wiling because he's just come up with an idea. Let's hear Jack's idea with sound number three all right. Here's Jack's Shark tank pitch. forty-six people need to drink a half gallon a day each carrying on this water back and forth isn't going to be a real pain in the ass volunteering in this case too good a shelter just to be used for burial Adam and Eve they must have lived here the plane crash or maybe they were shipwrecks probably found this place and you could survive here. Unlimited supply freshwater intrigue canopy keeps the temperature down. The openings are narrow easier for protection against predators. We don't need to bring the water to the people the people to the water excuse me they're predators on the island yes like with the shoulder mounted laser cannons and the four jaws and the the savage clause and the heat vision. Maybe that's why Jack now has the cutoff because he's really trying to embody Armenian Predator. Oh my God well later on in Las. They're going to get the JOPPA. There's no sign of any predators unless they're in their invisibility mode the whole time they do have that ability woody. Do you think that's why Jackson muttered to himself. After it turns out he woke up and he got a piece of shrapnel him. I ain't got time to bleed. That's right. Oh my God it makes me what is he locked versus the Predator so badly that come and you do when you when universal starts running out of the creatures to battle each other lock vs Predator. It's going to be the movie. Everyone wants to saw yeah but you think the Spiderman Sony Disney deal is complicated implicated Disney having to get involved with a with a Predator movie because they've got the lost rights gunshot lockers intellectual property yeah. I don't think that they're going to feel like they could fix John Locke Predator but I don't know who knows stranger things have happened. Maybe I don't know if they have. I don't know who I like like walk. Inside are the likeliest to be able to destroy a Predator yeah I would say so. I think that you know being a veteran would be someone very easily able to do wait. I mean I don't know maybe walt someone who is like really attuned to the environment in a certain way might be able to like see the Predator in some way when maybe 'cause I mean walk walk like some in a polar bear to fight the Predator but I mean one polar bear would not be enough need multiple polar bears army men in black. I guess it takes the form of bees we know. Predators bees yeah on my God. Can you imagine a Predator during the Dharma Initiative Times they have where the island yes yes. Yes yes absolutely yeah pushing the button ever just like just going out and you see the Predator like doing pushups unless they get a mama's the papa going. This is good material decision. Makers are listening to this podcast. We're turning out gold. Yeah Desmond says like Oh you WanNa know what happened. The last guy we see like a Predator skeleton in the corner smoke sponsor would crush the Predator yeah. Jack says I can't do an autopsy on this but it's probably at least franchises at least what thirty years old listen people thought it was a popular theory for a while that may be lost was the island was some sort of foreign planet right and this is like a real hard Scifi thing they're stranded different plan. There's they were at the mercy of aliens and stuff well. There's predators there you go. It's feeling that theory but then at the last minute they bring Zena Morph on the freighter take care of it yeah. It's a shame that the Predator didn't make it into the church at the end of Yeah Yeah. The Predator sat outside instead. I'm not it's not my time benched yeah. Benjamin and the Predator have unfinished business all right so yeah so we're going going to we're gonNA bring the people we need to bring. The people of the water away from the Predator yeah in a way for the predators is the plan here. I really wanted to just the listen to that so we could talk about the Predator contrition about Jack's making the pros for the caves in particular. He's really got this idea in in his head and not everyone feels that way which will certainly touch upon okay so back at the Beach Michael and Wal Walking and while it has a lot of questions about what's just transpired is it. What did you mean when you said people don't like people like us and Michael feels very guilty for saying this has lived the vast majority of his life if not in his entire life away okay from America right? I guess a little bit when he was an infant a toddler but then he moved away. This is not the culture that he knows he doesn't know what his dad's talking about like Michael. You can tell us immediately remorseful for it but now I quickly gives way when waltz like well why did you. Where did you make him so angry? And what did you do the bugs the what did I do to stop blaming me everybody off so mad that I could just shoot some of these survivors. What kind of guy do you think I am? You think about me and what kind of Man Listen Michael always knew that his son was going to grow up to be an adult fast. Maybe my always maybe Michael manifested for lack of a better turn. Possibly possibly this is the part where where Walter you don't don't know anything about my birthday Mike. It's August twenty fourth. When's mine so petty? That's not his fault. It's his mother's. That's the thing Michael Douglas's like well. What is your mother's save me? She never talked about you which again unintentional savage burned by walt number like three thousand against his own dad but I think Michael is much like kills sort of monologue to Jin later. I think Michael's maybe holding waltz resentful for this stuff that his late mother had withheld from him. I think that Michael Cool situation like jokes aside and obviously like referencing the fact that eventually he's going to kill two people who are essentially like friends or at least friend adjacent recent Libya's pretty much a friend the fact that he's going to murder these people in cold blood to save his son like a misguided twisted way of of saving his son he believes that it's the right thing to do to really speaks to the fact that all of these characters are under severe stress and pressure and fire but uh-huh often under reported or or not given enough attention when we're looking back on the strain that is on Roy that is I'm Michael Dawson that not only is he one of these survivors of the plane crash and so there's just the stress trauma that's built into that but he is reunited with it is sun under very grim circumstances after Walton tire life essentially up to this point a hassle live with this reputation very sour reputation that has been in generated around his own persona four walt by his his late mother slash Michael's ex wife or ex girlfriend rather and now has a lake not only like learn how to be a dad for the first time but have to learn how to be a dad under the most dramatic circumstances possible the fact that he's a shitty father sometimes here I. I don't know if I want to say like he gets a pass but he gets my empathy for sure he is. He's a shitty father but this is also his first ever experienced with fatherhood yeah like like what a horrible way to have to go through it. Yeah it's the ultimate trial by fire plus water here and it's just gotten his ass like heartily handed to him and everyone's like one nearly died. Everyone's like well clearly. You did something and he's like no right to watch so we're Michael Oh but I want to give him some slack where we can all right so back with Sun. Jin And sun is GonNa ginge. Maybe you should like explain what's going on because I'm not not gonNA explain myself to a thief which slams us into another flashback which we aren't. We aren't replaying here. It's a lot more visual than it is audio. Oh anyway but this is the great iconic scene one of the great iconic scenes of the episode and a scene. We'll see twice in lost. We'll see flip script up this much later in this very season but some sun and Jin are at their home and Jin comes home very late and he's got blood on his hands at his shirt. She's like what are you doing. What is this? Why are you talk Ogden? Why are you covered in blood and he's just won't respond and eventually just smacks him? Across the face and Daniel Day Kim delivers the most grim look ever yeah like look for a second like son just like awoke the bear. They're not very scared. I mean if you watch for the first first time you would get very scared but for what it's worth Jen which again I will say. I think you know when he says the line I do what your father tells me. I think it's less about like the you know like I'm just doing my job and it's more so like this is what your father is doing to me without him outright saying it because again he feels like he's protecting her but it's an intensely and correct me if I'm wrong here. Let's sort of look at the other side again like we did with with the dog. I'm trying to remember. Do we see the exact circumstance percents that makes gin and covered in blood in this instance I remember the one where her we never jumps and lands and stuff and landing on the car or if you had to beat up the guy yeah it's that so he beats up the guy says I just saved your life three does because like he's there to deliver the message and he goes there and he just kicked the crap out of him pretty severely and I think that's the message that delivers and he comes back and he's covered in blood and now that we see that scene again in that new context and son leaves the room then the camera emmer stays we stay with gin and he just crumbles in front of the Mirror as like this is what his life has become but we're not at that point of empathy for Jin yet. I know that there's going to be a defensive ends of Jin later on in the feedback section so we can talk about it a little bit more there but certainly we know him a lot better now than we did in the moment but I remember watching this the first time and I guess I haven't mentioned this yet but for me. Kim was on my radar because he had a great bit part in Twenty Four. He played agent. Tom Baker who is just like a really bad ass but like didn't say much and didn't have much of a character outside of being agent who would occasionally team up with Jack Bauer. They really only seasons two and three. I don't think he was ever beyond that because has lost started up so I already loved the actor and I was so thrilled when he was on the lost but when he got to this moment on the show I remember thinking I'm the I watch like scary guy. I don't know what they're doing day. Kim Real bad guy. I love that about as well will definitely gain as his character develops but he really we just had this like hardened exterior on billy teare point give like really steely looks but there is a lot of plush nece within that Stale especially once he like softens up to the characters around him. I'm on the island all right so back in the jungle Jack and Kate or walking back. They take a quick break because it's a big hike. Jack is just like creeping on Kate. He's just like staring off into space. Maybe but cates like hair you checking me out and Jesse lit like you know if you're checking me out. That's fine but right like let's call it what it is and he says trust me. If I was checking you out you'd know it. It's like what what does this mean. I mean it means that he would do like the cartoonish wolf or Fox is like the boy knowing and his tongue would fall out of his mouth. The Matthew Fox is yeah yeah. I think this is a bad not not a great episode for Jack. Even though you need some people to the caves and stuff there's fishy. Jack Business is going on much gets beaten against some wreckage but I love this. No this is really interesting because reminds me of that meam of a man and a woman lying in bed with her being like I wonder what he's thinking and then Jack being if we built a dam we put the fresh water by itself separate the infirmary from the beach right right she immediately is like I don't know because she's not feeling this idea at all. She says that when he says like when we get back to the to the beach we're GonNa have to. We're going to have a lot of convincing. She's like well. You still haven't convinced me. That's trying to plant the seed early on like knocking with you. Trust me if I convinced you you know it all right back at the caves. Charlie is going to go and use the bathroom again. He's obviously GonNa take another shot at the drug us. I think you would say okay that when you switch to begin with no no everything's good everything's fine. He's going to the LOO. I'm going to the LOO. He says but John Locke is not going going to break line of sight with Charlie. It's too dangerous and he says I know who you are. I know what you're looking for God. He knows I'm a drug addict and then he says no driveshaft. Did you played bass and I love the John. Locke is a driveshaft man yeah. It's it's really fun though again some cut material and this is towards towards like the running Motif of sps secretly evil John Locke to begin with apparently this scene lock purposely used the whether the MISSA robots from social engineering earring base and he pulls Elliott and he's Social Engineers Charlie saying I'm a fan of driveshaft to get Charlie to tell him about what happened in team. Transceiver Mike is ears perked up when he heard Charleston were these people who were here before is and so he basically is trying to use his quote unquote love for driveshaft as a way to segue into a natural conversation patients get Charlie's lips open so that tell them about what he knows. I so vastly prefer the eventual care of just one. This one's much more wholesome. Yes absolutely absolutely absolutely. I think it's just more subtle and it's it's. It's a great character note that like John Locke who is going to be this guy who is at his desk all day everyday working this awful job somebody who has not had a lot of people in his life who have really shown him love and affection hasn't connected deeply with too many people in his time. I think that probably familiarity with drive shaft comes after his his brush all the pot farm identical lasting this on the farm. I don't think drive shaft Chaffetz. Necessarily the pot farm. Theme can't believe we're already talking about the POT Farro guy we are talking about Charlie and drugs so it kind of fits I think thing Anthony Cooper got him into driveshaft. Yeah he's like John. Let me let me get you into let me get you into my favorite band. That really lulled him into a sleep. All he took his kidneys. Yeah the the secret theme of you all. Everybody is like if we're all everybody then my kidneys. Your kidney or kidney is Mike inside of oil change. Your can't change also a metaphor for changing kidneys. Take the locks is the self titled Driveshaft debut is better than oil. Change is like man. It's a real shame what happened to the band and I think Charlie loves being recognized ignites for the first time he's been out here for so long and no one has said anything yet and they have this real bonding moment and Charlie hasn't seen his guitar in over week eight days and eleven hours to specific some fascist made Charlie check the guitar in person. We all know we all know who it is Chris. I see a lot of people mad at your your L. VP knock against Christie by the way. I'M GONNA make some head can in here. I think it was her they did right. I think we're building. The rule of the authoritarian oceanic countering Chrissy is the true villain of loss as we're GONNA come to find out over the course of down the hatch the but Locke says you'll find guitar again. You will see it again. I have faith Charlie so he will make good on that. Promise in a short just a few short or at scenes from now. Let's get to sound number. Four as Jack and Kate are gonNA reach a very sexy site garage. Just shopping would the total captain America and age of ultra Mac and logs he may as well just be ripping them in half with his bare hands sites Araya to two thousand is in four sex symbol unbelievable. I just can't get enough but anyway so jack inside the civil war to push the narrative further even though I feel like Jack I don't know if you quite bits the IRONMAN billionaire philanthropist surge alcoholic Iran could fly so jacqueline die flown better all right well. Let's get to Jack say because this is going to talk about splitting wood. I think we're GONNA see a split in the camp forming from this. I'll let them sit in the Sun while longer I'll take his wife decide find some way to communicate. I think she knows why attacked Michael. I'm sure you don't want to talk to her. Okay okay. You've got that under control. I'M GONNA start talking to people about the caves might be able to get a few to go with me before nightfall. Start setting up camp it. You'll see this is the reason you didn't consult us when you decided to form your own civilization. I'm only talking about moving into the valley. What's happened to live together die alone? Digging in together is the only way we're going to survive our best. I hope of survival is being spotted by plane or ship and for that we need to organize everyone to keep that signal fire burning while other scotty infra supplies digging in anywhere else is suicide. Suicide is the freshwater we found signs and staying on the beach in the Sun without water. That's not suicide it. I'm not going to admit defeat so we had talked a lot about how hey ace. Aida actually has a pretty capable leader. Maybe even more so than our consummate ironman here but this is the first outright time that I think the show references it and to the point where it'll stories going around for instant later like there's a little bit of a tease of a small love triangle here. We're cates sort of having to choose between the to the point where when she speaks up about hey so so you Jack Kennedy has a point. He shoots her a look like Oh. You can't be serious. You're actually signing with this guy over me but I really enjoy it because when we think okay post White Rabbit Jack has a pretty easy shop for a while at being a leader everyone falls under his command but no he faces opposition very quickly in the form of Saieed who essentially it's been challenging him for leadership the entire time even before he took the position yeah. I think I'll put the die alone. He really does not go live together. Deal Oh yeah I think that we'll have a lot to talk about with this. When we get to the feedback so we don't need to linger here too much but this is going to drive some of the action for the rest of the episode as they go back to the to the beach and Jack is going around recruiting people for the caves and Saieed is doing the same thing he's going to go to Michael? He's GonNa make the pitch to Michael. Bill Michaels like listen. I appreciate the apology but obviously you're not just coming to apologize to me about this morning so it's like yeah. Are you going to the caves or are you going to be. He's like don't don't even bother. I'm not going anywhere. GotTa get off this rock by the way you did something right to promote this guy jumping on you. It's your fault. The Jack's going to the caves right everything to my yeah. It's just it's a victim blaming Michael Dawson Jack's going to go. He's going to throw a bottle of water to Jin Jackson. Go to Hurley. Hurley is going to move to the caves and Hurley says go where the boards that because we know the boar hunters going to be at the cave. I Hurley makes a joke about Jack. Move into the caves with case so what about you and Mrs Kay like you guys going to be moving into Jackson Lake widow we five they yeah with that. Boys get to do a lot of labored breathing though too because I love Matthew Fox but that's family guy almost like broke my perception of his character with how much he breathes heavily during dialogue yeah. I'm obviously going to have to work on my Matthew Fox impression but we've got a long time to get a good. There's a little bit to be fair. I feel bad for Jack. You're because everyone's like he's like Britney till survive here like stop focusing on trivialities. I want to get everyone freshwater yeah. I just got a text message from my wife who's in the other room listening and she goes. You're Matthew Fox is an abomination to all Fox. Ah The sorry for the podcast yes okay so from one Fox Fox wig were that is the the update. She says it's okay okay babe as the foul. If you need to apologize in a very romantic language he'll bring her. Bring her a flower later all right so kate is going to get some attention from Sawyer who calls her the bell of the ball. What did you think of Sawyer Sunglasses by the way speaking of Fashion Watch which certainly not his worst glasses look for us? It's weird it's like watching old survivors seasons when the to wear sunglasses like I just feels odd to have people people wearing sunglasses on the island just shout out the storm podcast once again one of the great loss podcast that are going on right now. I know that they do a segment mint where awake what's the early two thousand moment from an episode. I've got to imagine that this made the list ridiculous particularly look you guys go. Listen to the storm and report back and let us know if we were right on that because I cannot imagine that there is any of this episode that even competes it's ridiculous care go mountain biking when he said Oh yeah but I still think the Jack Sleepless button-down announcers worse but he's going to lay out the argument for staying and going like the options are pretty clear like if you stay on the beach you risk getting hurt because the doctor isn't here. If you go to the caves you risk missing the plane if a plane comes by or some rescue comes by K- keeps going to be like all right well. Where are you going to go and he's like well? Where are you going to go? Yeah I don't know where are you going to go. He says you didn't answer my question. I asked burst such a good read. I love it. I love it all right and also I will say that Sawyers also obsessed with optimists and pessimists like in the he when he absconded with the water bottles before and he's like I'll give women Walter Balls. It's GonNa Rain Hill. I'm optimistic in this episode. He called the K. people pessimists so I love him sort of like setting himself up as like. I'm a positive good guy in his life. Never the bad guy in your story yeah although although he does that multiple choice breaks bad dude like I've actually a terrible person which is sometimes true not always but sometimes troupe all right son is just GonNa Follow Michael Into the jungle he's going off into the jungle and she's like going to watch him. Creep relief from the sideline so we get a flashback where sons decorator is showing up Jin's on the phone. He's got no time for the decorator and Bobo. The dog is all grown up now. So some time has passed and do you think he's killed so many he is ripped out the jugulars of many a man both the kill dog the attack dog sons. Go talk with the decorator and of course the decorator is not just a decorator greater it would appear that the direct the decorator at the very least was a conduit for her son being in a position to learn English yeah. She's GonNa set sun up with her. At this point you would assume deceased lover. The man who's going to teach her English also be the man she has. An affair with WHO I think at this point is a SPLAT yeah. I'm pretty sure he's car wreckage at this point. I think so she's going to say you you gotTA. You're going to get to the airport. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA run away in eleven fifteen Lilo. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA keep a low proof until everyone thinks if you're dead and then you'll be able to to move about the world really you're gonNA be able to wander wherever you want to go and like dude. That's intense plan yeah. That's not what happens but Mike Bloom that is like a remarkably intense alternate reality like obviously the island is massively intense but think about the a parallel universe not the sideways universe but think about the the branch universe where where we're son didn't get fifteen and she's just like darted did she dashed and then just like faked her own death and walked the planet yeah and we'll especially imagine that she has to leave everything and everyone she's loved. You know when you go to witness into witness protection at least you like with have you have people hopefully that you know you and that you can communicate where she would have to be. Absolutely nobody just got to be stark. Basically I love that when you put it that way son becoming a faceless woman and becoming coming the assassin. I think nobody nobody would have pegged that knowing Jin. What's east of Korea? I don't know there's actually an answer to that all right well. Let's get into let's get into this next sound that follows what we heard at the very start of this podcast sun comes to Michael and he he gives her very dismissive. Look who came to challenge. I need to talk to you and he and we are floored and it leads to this continuation of the conversation where she explains why she can speak English do speak English. Yes you speak English. Why didn't you say anything? My husband doesn't know why would you learn English. Not Tell your husband. He has a bad temper. What my husband did Tuesday today? It was a misunderstanding. No I got it loud and clear it wants to watch. Your husband tried to murder me for watch which I found this watch two days ago belongs to my father protecting that lunch is a question of honour because trying to kill me in front of my kid Oughta know my father. I need to have what I find. Interesting is. I feel like Sun doesn't answer any michaels questions not really when she says I need to talk to you it's more I need to talk at you and ninety to answer a favor because you know when he asked why. How did you learn in English and your husband doesn't know? She says he has a bad temper. which you could take to be like Oh? She couldn't tell him because he has a bad temper but I think she's using it to explain why he attacked him. You know like she she does. She basically skips over the actual reasoning as to why she wanted to learn English right. I wish that Mike would said you learned English rush. He doesn't get the line exactly right yeah but he has like the same emphasis that the series Bible hat yeah but then when he comes back and son starts tripling she learned English. Everyone tries to Michael and says like what did you do to make sun learn English yeah. This is somehow all your God. Michael is like like the scapegoat of everybody on Long Michaels. Jerry Gergen's have lost at this point a man. I've ever put those two characters. They're not necessarily mattis all right well. Let's go back to the caves or just on the outskirts of the caves as Charlie is once again for the third time. I'm going to try and do some drugs and private this time John Locke is GonNa come to him and be like yeah all right so like I obviously know that you're trying to do drugs right now and we should probably talk about that so they're going to have a conversation about that and it's going to lead to a bit of a bonding moment between Charles Pace and Jonathan Locke. I don't think that those their full names actually no. I like John Berry or some sort of like weird names on John Berry Lock John Locke. Yes listen listen to me. You will get. I'm going in the jungle. A man has a right to some privacy hand it to me GONNA run out. I guess the sooner rather than later painful detox inevitable. Give it up right now. At least it'll be your choice. Don't talk to me like you know something about me. I know a lot more pain than you think off. I don't envy what you're facing but I wanNA help you want your guitar. You're more than your drug on that need no what I know that this island just might give you what you're looking for works but you have to give the island something I think you find my guitar. Look Up. Charlie asks me to pray once you look breath and obviously there is little look up guitar. Apparently in the script Charlie was supposed to cry in response to it but apparently just off the page Dominic Monaghan and -Tario Clinton laughed much like Jack did after being foisted over the cliff last episode and that's what ends up making the final. Why am I think to the point you made before? It's more appropriate. It's it's a bonding moment in simultaneously laughing. I'm like oh it was really right there. The entire time you literally said look up but I there is like this emotional look on Dominic Monaghan space to like this laugh that crumbles into like like Oh my God and one of the things about Charlie as well. We'll learn in the next episode is he is very religious guy like he was he was born you know and raised with religion as a central part of his life so I think that this is the moment that in some regards at least susceptible to being a man of faith I mean look at his final arc like what he does is because he has faith in in Desmond's vision he has faith in the fact that if he does what Desmond has prophesized then he's going to save the people who cares about the most like his death will mean a great things for the people he loves so I think that Charlie's Charlie's very wobbly storyline Charlie Charlie story that has has some relapse moments in in certain regards. It's uneven along the way but this is a beautiful moment on on that road for him. I loved the scene I love the way that it's played. Lock says you have to give the island something Josh what did lock give the island in your opinion. I think that he's given the island like all of his faith everything every last drop he is. He's like he is forked over his like his his control over his self to the island that he's just like a free spirit. He is an agent agent. The Island at this point I think is what he believes. He's a vessel is like you you gave me the ability to walk and I give to you my willingness to do almost anything and like that faith is tested along the way obviously most notably with the hatch stuff later in season two for the most part like he's. He's just like you have all all of my belief which is history ultimately but that'd be my answer. I'd agree with you on that I think he I think it's less so physical as what he's doing with Charlie and more so so what he's quote sacrificing is his his loyalty to anybody else even though he said he'd fall under Jack's line and gave him Jack's Jackdaw leadership advice last time I think he's first and foremost loyal to the island and whatever the island provides so much so that even an episode six he's already speaking as an emissary of the island as an expert on it and I guess it's an interesting thing to track as well in terms of if lock really truly believes that you know if you sacrifice something you will be rewarded how that's going to translate to you know the way he's GonNa Treat Charlie because this is the first step in a very long path for Locke and Charlie when it comes to his sobriety in the first few seasons we'll see when he encounters other characters like Mr Echo who is a man of faith in a very different way what that sacrifice might entail but if this is indeed his mantra. I'm very intrigued to see how that transpires and the way he treats other people all right. Let's get another Jack and kate seen in the books and let's hear it. Let's not just just talk about it. Let's go to the penultimate sound of the episode sound number. Seven as Jack is GonNa come to to to Kate and say all right cave time and came back yeah about that starting to go no one's asking you to. I just can't quite someone else can stay here. Keep a lookout wait for rescue. Why does it have to be then? What is it How did you get to be this way? Just what is it that you did. You had your chance to know if you need me anywhere. Find me I think when Kate says you know you had your chance to riders saying yeah. We still don't know what she did. Anything very she's not wrong Jackie. Let me tell you I think back in the day by response that was like that's so frustrating. Just tell us but at the same time like Jack shushed her sister she was ready to tell them and you think I don't WanNa now all right I would've told you but you're so dismissive I mean we we definitely came after Jack for that the Tabu Larosa which by the way to listener Amy Larue who stumbled upon the optimal listening snack for down the hatch which is to Boola with sight of Rosa. I'm going Oh you need to throw some more stuff in the puts them on there for the bees but I I see your point there however there will be some points. We talked about this feedback. I'm not a huge fan of cates a in this scene specifically her coming by saying I don't WanNa be eve like it. Almost most implies her not wanting to go to the case because she doesn't want to be coupled with Jack or at least perceived that way which is not very fair to Jack and it's also like a little do a little pithy considering again. It's based should be based more so on survivor survival. Oh I saw Jack and Kay together in the trees. They might be kissing yeah but what if if she's like. She got really sketched out by checking her out. It's like I don't think I want to go to the caves with that guy like he was thinking about a damn what she's saying like. I don't WanNa be eve. Maybe she's like I don't want you to murder me into caves. Throw me in the cave graveyard. Maybe she's gotTa worry at least four fifty years for you to turn it into bones. Oh my God terrifying trying all right. Let's get to the final sound of the episode and one of the really great Harold Perrineau performances on Lost Ost as Michael has now talked to son he knows what's up. He understands that it's all about the watch he understands that he's going to be able to talk to Gin and and say whatever he wants to Jen's not understand of it and so he is going to go off and here it is the final end of the episode. I know you can't stand word and normally I'm not the talking out loud type but since I have a captive audience hope for your sake. I'm not exactly have the best month of my life. I knew my son and now I gotta be his daddy and then the top at all. I have a Korean guy trying to kill me what to watch my book. I found this new records and I figured Hey why let a twenty thousand dollar. Watch go to waist which is ridiculous. Time doesn't matter on a Damn Island. Stay away from me and my kid you know the writers are like time doesn't matter on an island four years from now. Let's go back to the idea. Let's put a pain in that one oxley. Sorry gotta why abusing boys so much today the last time we go into Jack's Tattoos Michael says to Jin stay away from me and my man the act and it's very menacing. It's all very here's Johnny of him and it's great it's good Iowa and it's also it's Michael Sort of getting his pound of flesh out on Gen much like people use Michael as a punching bag using using Jinnah sort of a punching bag for all the groups that he has you know he brings up again like situates from off the island. It has nothing to do with Jen but it's an ability for Michael to finally let some some tempers flare and again him and this will be the most contentious they are. They'll eventually learn to come together but Jin. It's free even though he will not lose that handcuff income from his wrist until next season for a very very long time son is watching the whole thing in from a distance and it gets us to our final flashback of the episode where we're back at the airport in Sydney and we're getting to see Jack Kareem out the gate agent once again and in the background around you you see Sarah Stripes is there and so many other great background people. There's this one guy looks like Wilford Brindley caught him song. Don't lever diabetes. I mean he really looks like he's got this big hat on an this amazing Hawaiian shirt and are no it looks like Wilford Brim lead anybody else else very provided some thoughts that I will get into in the feedback section a borbor Wilford Brim lead calm but with the most important people in the back back on of course are Jin and Sun Jin who's kind of taking some notice of what's going on Jack and Sun the clock's ticking bike boom and it's almost it's eleven fifteen. It's time to sneak away to fake your own death and walked the planet as the sun is about to rise on a new existence assistance for Miss Kwan and she's very upset about it and she's crying and it's incredibly emotional and Kim phenomenally underrated actresses just doing a spectacular attack your job and she looks back at Jin who it's almost like he knows and he's got the flour and he holds it up. Remember this huge throwback. Remember how I would you with flowers. Here's another flower like I can't run away two beautiful. This scene gets me every time it's just so well done. It's also really fun to be taken for multiple contacts. If you just come from the House of the rising Sun Angle it's your son. Why didn't you do it? You know it's it's her and you you see that pain on her face to. She has these tears rolling down realizing you know the fact that she's constructed yourself to the handcuff that she has on her wrist but if you look at it from the translation perspective where we know that Jin is planning to take him away right to escape the life. The flowers are really interesting moment where it's him sort of you know certain says he will baptize away where exactly like you're going to meet the man that you fell home of with again. I have become a different person but we're going to change all that. We're going to run away now and it's a really interesting moment where like both characters are viewing it from completely the different perspectives and maybe that's what brings them together in the in this moment it's very sad but I just love the multiple meanings behind it in multiple perspectives and especially actually because it's so well done from both performers that you see both sides of their even the first time out yeah totally I also have to note note that there's a there's a woman behind signed sun and Jin in the scene who's like wearing this ro- rose colored shirt and she's like continuously stares directly into the camera like rail a little times. It's very distracting. Once you see it. You can't unsee it. Go back and watch. There's just like a woman who is really trying very hard not to stare at the camera and she's failing bombing. You had one job the Jim Halpern Skilling scratching it all right final series of scenes lab get another episode closing Montage Music Montage following in the mold as established by the Great Tabula Rasa as we see Jack as leading people into the caves in Charlie's playing guitar and Hurley is going to play a song and it's are you sure sure by Willie Nelson One of the few times we'll hear Willie Nelson some shuttling alley cleanup play next to some driveshafts on the pot farm. Yeah I think Willie Nelson Kinloch was definitely rocking out to on the farm for sure no one hundred percent. He's like he's like Oh man just like I'm never going to lose this area. Hundred details for life. Only tells for life and it's it's a beautiful sign. Look around you at the faces that you see. Are you sure this is where you want to be a little on the knows maybe but like it's beautiful like the it's a perfect juxtaposition totally emotionally to where everybody's at and you know we see we see wall asking Michael. When's your birthday? It's a super cute moment. Moment we see sawyers just like kind of like a kind of like tending to the fire pensively basically alone leads they're. He's kind of alone in case there. She's fairly alone interestingly at the caves who is Jack sitting next to by the fire. Oh this is nice quiz. I don't know it Johnny Lock. He plops down next to lock because at this point early on Lost Jack Likes luck is like this is a solid guy who led be in the right direction before lock is not yet responsible for any human deaths so jack feels he can trust this guy. It's going to be several several weeks before we're really talking about Jack and Locke as adversaries early on they were getting on getting along pretty well but jack is staring into the fire. Kate Kate staring into the fire Willy Willy Nelson is is telling us what's on their minds Willie Nelson's dealing with the different type of fire yeah so you sure this is where you want to be and there's it's a slow fade out and we cut to the loss title and that Mike Bloom is house of the rising sun solid episode really fun episode of the show Yeah. There's a Lotta stuff in there and I think the ending is really fun as well again. That's a nice season one trope of the musical montages and yes. It's a little on the nose but it's really it's fundamentally different. You know I feel like the song at the end of episode three. It was very much everyone coming together and to the point where in the to clip that we played of Jack Shark tank pitch and John cates eight splitting apart credit where credit is due playing which really represents both the community coming together and now splitting apart this fundamentally different musical montage and the other one. It's much more more down tempo which makes things very exciting for what's to come absolutely all right well. Let's get into some behind the scenes of this episode some notes from behind the curtain the Great Ben Martell he notes some great stuff that we should be talking about as pertains to the house of the rising sun including leading the portrayal of Korean culture on the show and this is this is what Ben Rights and it comes from a bunch of different sources we will make sure to link to all of this in the show notes which you can see in your podcast feed right now. Ben Writes your engine Kim and Daniel Day Kim had early concerns about the portrayal of Koreans on the show. Oh especially given the controlling demeanor of gin in the early episodes. Your engine wanted to be clear that this didn't represent life in South Korea at the time it was just as outdated as in the West rather the relationship between Jin and sun reflects. The specific dynamic of how Jin's personality has developed as a result of working for Mr Pyke. The scripts were written in the English. A translator was hired by lost who spoke minimal English Daniel Cam engine Kim would have to work with him to help him understand the nuance at the English script because generally generally a literal translation would not reflect how the sentence would be expressed in Korean. There are some instances on the show which appear to some Korean speakers to be direct translations where the true meaning is lost as a result. I feel like that's lost on you and me Mike I know you're joking about having learned Korean in fluency very a recently that I feel like a lot of the heavy lifting is clearly accomplished by you know facial expressions and emotion in the voices of these actors I I mean I wonder if the choice to hire a translator who spoke middle English was purposeful wasn't a choice on the shutters to be like we WanNa make sure that this translator slater knows are actors and vice versa so that they learn the language from each other. I know that Kim. I believe how spoke a lot more Korean than Daniel Cam. Yeah I mean I believe she is Korean. She was a pretty notable Korean exactly the bridge between them much sun on the show yes Dayo. Kim said that the pilot was problematic in many ways in terms of representation but they were very sensitive to the issue and not just in a way that was patronizing. He said I know that. Jj Damon are concerned -cerned about how the Asian Community Caesar characters they really did help form the character based on not only what I was saying but also with engine was saying he also later reflected that he had concerns about an early cancellation of lost. This is Daniel Day Kim he said if for instance we got four or five episodes on the air and then we got cancelled the entirety of Jin's character would be what you saw at the the beginning to me that was problematic because it represented a number of stereotypes that I worked so hard to avoid in my career I had a lot of faith. Jj Damon that if the show continued the character would grow and deepen they had assured me of that so it wasn't a matter of trusting them. It was just a matter of trusting whether or not the show would be successful so yeah I mean I think that data they came is a really talented guy. He's not just a remarkable actor he is. He's proving to be a really great producer. He's brought in a lot. He's working on a lot of really the good doctor none. That's correct Yep. He is one of the driving force behind that so here speak so intelligently about story should not come as has any kind of surprise at all whatsoever and I think for him to be talking about the importance culturally of gin in eventually being able to show the complexity of Jin and that all all tracks and that all lines up and I think the fact that he is eventually able I mean we talk a lot about like the the one eighty see that happens with Sawyer right but but I think would sawyer. Is it like a full eighty or is it like a one fifty five. It's it's not like a full turn in the other direction because he's still like a bit of a scandal even at the end but to to think about where we start with gin and where we wind not just by in translation where you get the full new perspective on him but really by the end of the series is pretty remarkable in a huge testament to this man's talent yeah yeah I I mean I've said many times I love the dark in particular and he brings up a great point and you could argue that for the Sawyer character as well where lost you know I think scripted ripped it out. A first season that brings in a lot of rug polls imagine if they cancelled lost in the first three episodes didn't get the walkabout reveal so much of it it was predicated on what reveals and how things would happen over the course of the season and it's crazy to think about in those days when networks were not necessarily picking up full seasons until until after a handful of episodes there was a chance that things could be cancelled before they found out the true Baxter characters and as a result they come across as a bit to a bit two-dimensional two-dimensional before you know the facade drops and they reveal the full three dimensions so for a variety of reasons the podcast included able to talk about lost asked for so many weeks. I'm very happy that loss kept going because it was able to really not only show Jin's pass and how it doesn't it might be a bit of a misnomer to his behavior currently on the island but also the person who's going to be calm especially the more he learns English the more ingratiates himself into the community after separating himself so much in these first few episodes the more lovable and the more interesting character hell become in my opinion all right. Let's turn to Adam and Eve who are introduced Mary and Jesus in this episode we know that's going to be the man in black and his Mama. I think that there were a few things on the show that had quite as much heat behind find this in terms of the theorizing everybody had theory. Everybody thought that this was going to be some set of characters that we already knew that there was gonna be some time travel element. I think rose and Bernard was a really popular. You were theory about time traveling jacking kate as long as it's bad news. That's absolutely you. That's literally early you in the game so you're GONNA be Eve evangeline Lilly but we like how much this plant right. This is actually the man in Black Jack and mother or was this a lane is is this a long ret conned Sunday that they had settled upon later. I feel like there's some conflicting reports on this and Ben Martell brings this up. He's sites. I an entertainment weekly article in an interview with Jeff Jensen who at the time was of E. W. A. has has gone on to do some creative endeavors Damon Lindelof including the movie tomorrow land believe he's working on watchmen the show as well was a prolific lost commentator tator and and and writer and if you weren't reading Jeff Jensen where you really lost van but in this interview Lindelof it was it was right before not in Portland air to the season three three the season three episode seven one day we made cross bats with Robin Akiva should they choose to spin the wheel and land on Landon Landon frozen donkey wheel territory but Damon Lindelof said just before the airing when all is said and done people are going to point to the skeleton say that this is proof from the very beginning meaning they always knew what they were going to do with this and had also referenced an Anagram that would be in that episode which would be an indicator and this probably Middle Hello Switches the science company which is the Popular Lord of the Rings Game of Thrones Crossover. That's occurring after lock the Predator no L. Vp Vp we were later. The ANAGRAM for middle is being lost time. I don't know how much that hall but they said they do something. Let's just throw a chore. This is vague enough that we could put it in at some point. I I think the thing that I that I would probably in the past have raged about more than just don't say anything like you. Don't have to say anything. You don't have to say that you have this plan from the very beginning kidding like we don't need. You don't need to defend yourself in this way. It's okay it's a creative endeavor and it's growing and it's changing building the plane as it flies. Jack is letting you know that he's flying best the idea wins. I love it like you. Don't have to tell us that you know who the skeletons are clearly. It's not like an really totally lineup in terms of how it landed. I don't. I'm not that mad about battered anymore. Making this show is really really hard like if there's like the choke panic moments where like we knew we were doing shut up. Go a little more sympathy for that now a a testament Havi agree O- marks wash you of course it's the writer of this episode of has the rising sun a recall that in his time on loss during the first two seasons that he that he didn't remember there ever being a suggestion of a character named Jacob or the man in black as some kind of manifestation of good and evil so does this review you that Adam and Eve being the man in black and the mother was part of the plan the whole time or is this just highly privileged information that Damon Lindelof kept himself. Only only your Barbara knows for sure yes exactly so if your lock you have not seen him in a long term. It's been a minute the lock ball jokes are not going to go away anytime soon. I think you Bet Martel writes that in twenty ten president Barack Obama was given the opportunity to ask the answer to any question he wanted before the last few episodes of lost aired tired and he said that he wanted to know the identity of Adamant Eve they should just shouldn't wait until then does not provide us with a source on that so I'm GonNa have to grow Oh him off line. I just loved the idea of Obama's a big loss nerd. I'm fantasizing that Obama's listening to every episode of down the hatch I I fantasised that he's going to send in Lindelof now well. He does love to slow jam the news I mean we can slow jam Lindelof. I love what you're doing with billy wallace and Rodney Sesto great characters your great story toy apart sorry President Obama. I don't know if you've wanted root for Ronnie. Still in particular you know butt of a embiid first half of season one Sawyer Quality Hill evolve shoutout to our number one down the Hatch Strand Precedent Morocco Matt the number one down the hatch support or at least the forty fourth so let's let's pull a story of the week from the series. He's Bible again. We want to bring some of these. All these different stories that were pitched into series Bible that did not make it to Air Ben posits this one at this could have made it onto lost eventually in an attempt to find common ground with Walt Michael Ventures into jungle to find his sons pet labrador upon locating sent Michael is surprised to see that not only has the dog's ear been bitten off. The bite marks appear to be here. I'm in is that were Mike Tyson comes out of the jungle. Maybe it was a predator. Maybe what the hell leg stopped want dog view it is so I thought well listen if it's Bobo Bobo comes out with the human ear and his teeth it's the other way around the caves are a set. I'm sure many people we know this may maybe they don't but the caves this is not much of lost like the wilderness stuff those are like real wilderness locations that are used on loss actual exterior locations nations but the cave set it was not a natural location the whole thing including the waterfall it's artificial and built for the show on a sound stage so so I think that that's mentioned in the series Bible as while they eventually we're going to we're going to fight. We're going to be able to ground ourselves in the sound stage. We'll be able to control this thing a little bit yeah and then we're going to belt one onset that we're going to live in for an entire second season. Basically Yeah and Mike already pointed out that Jim fells once again has a great video for the music that you were hearing in House House of the rising sun we will link to that in our show notes aright feedback time and once again to send in your feedback. That's down the Hatch Wjr at post show recap stock. We'd love to hear from me. This is how we get to hear from you. In Our fifteen sixteen others section and we'll start off a lot of people had feedback about white rabbit so we'll read some of that feedback should we should we call this like other one previously on down the hatch previously Asli on down the hatch so this from connor how connor how road and instead I absolutely loved the ending of white rabbit with Sawyer and Boone on the beach where Sawyer asks him how it feels takes Sawyer spot as the most hated man on the island however we don't really see boone being hated for the rest of the season leading up to his death. Did the writers just forget about that narrative live or did they give us a tabun. Larosa Connor says sorry I couldn't pass that part of me thinks that Kinda wrote that questions specifically to get Tabun Larosa Sir considering he's talking to people that have both done that themselves we cannot cast that stone right now mission accomplished connor. You got us. Oh Bob Johnson road and instead of Christians body wasn't put on eight fifteen in how is his shoe in the jungle. Yeah I gotta be honest. My Christian Shepard's body was absolutely I I five and I will not be convinced otherwise yeah. I completely agree unless people say it's she was from one of the creepy dolls. No it's it's Christian. Shepherds Shoe has how's the man in black and imitate Christian shepherd the rules of the rules. That's another benefit the caves that Jack did not talk about as you get creepy doll to sleep with at night. Oh God so weird so weird. The Great Matthew Huff my Buddy Matthew huff writes in and says as a high school lifeguard I know it's rule one oh one to not follow a drowning downing person in the water without a flotation device because they're panicked and they'll just drown you too so really the gawkers deserve an MVP point for following safety net. Stop Stop It. Stop It. There on an island safety is out the window like one world. That's not why the gawkers were talking. They weren't gawking for safety there gawking because the cowards Craven's absolute craven's John Crew of course we will we will be hearing more from WHO's actually gonna be joining me to talk about watership down at some point in the not too distant future so John Prolific down the hatch contributor. You'll be hearing from in the not too the distant future very slow in my in my watership downing. So how are what's the what's the progress slows like thirty pages. I'm really I'm really tames the Times I guess when you take a while to happen but it will happen for sure John Cross writes in and says we're there has been hilarious. If when Jack was running through the jungle chasing the ghost of his dad he ran into a nude son who was bathing and then that just became a weird running joke throughout the series that son just can't get a moment of privacy to herself. I think that's funny funny Larry's that interesting church alerts John. We're enough to talk talk about that. John Denser John Denver. My cousin writes in and says Jack is my favorite character and I hated lock from the very get go locked sucks cousin John. We're going to have to have some words about that. John Much like I despaired. Spares Fellow Meikeljohn despair fellow John Kerry yeah locked sucks is horrible. Take that take I will I will burn the fire along with the B. O. D. Y. S. That we burned at the end of walkabout and perhaps yes and last week when we tweeted out the link to the White Rabbit Mike the Great Dalton Ross responded to our podcast and noted that he is currently in the process of preparing an eighty thousand word Orel history on by Ling and the mystery of Jack's tattoos so I certainly hope that's some version of that will come true in the year twenty twenty when we get to stranger in a strange land if people can remind us to to Beg Dalton Ross to at least spend eighty thousand words on a podcast talking about the tattoos and bailing. I think that that would be hysterical. There is an audience since for adults in don't you are even if it's just the two of us. I also did notice that the apprehension doc Johnson himself also did like those tweets as well. Oh that's great. That's great. That's wonderful all right other number. Two previously on lost lives Jordan from Wisconsin did the Jacobs Work and went back and listened to the cast as it was called Mike in Twenty Fourteen October twenty sixth twenty fourteen ten years after House of the rising Sun Ohio in is when you and I got together for almost five years ago I know I. I don't like to go back and listen to myself. I feel like it's it's always disappointing an awkward so I don't think that I'm ever going to go back and listen to the Quan cast as it was called especially especially because Jordan from Wisconsin lists out all of the different Kwan Puns Lord that we generated is this too embarrassing to list Alfred out there in the universe already. Let's let's dig up that pay because look we're. I'm I miss very much in my puns much more than I hit and I can only assume that ratio carried over five years ago all right so this is what we said. Apparently I have no memory of any of this but I fully believe it. Jordan from Wisconsin says says we said once upon a time all right. I like that analogies. What does that or quantities probably instead set of qualities? I'll actually like this now. It's like really fun. God terrible Quonsett okay. That's a good one per week one per week yeah because I think at the time I was trying to do a rewatch. I got the time lost lives. We were attempting a rewatch is trying to do it with a different guest every single week and eventually it fizzled out the trick to these these things you gotta have a sturdy reliable partner in crime otherwise it doesn't work under even I you and I got a partner partner in eight years so I need you so much. Mike Quantum entanglement is something that yeah. That's what we've got. You and I've got quantum entanglement with one another we said Kwan Song so good lost Kwan per tune in we also said Kwan fusing which is stupid quantum. We said Kwan spearmint instead of experimented. There's not there's not even a lake there. There's no exit Kwan. I'M GONNA go out on a limb into that one was you. I don't feel like that was I just I'm honestly surprised that we got even this deep are there there are Kwan Solo. I like that one Kwon Kwon Aw Luc Quan Walker. I don't know why I don't think I have a lot of grants quaden cool. I have a lot of regrets. This is terrible. Apparently this podcast was recorded before your wedding Mike October twenty six two thousand fourteen that tracks for you right. This is a test. You know your wedding anniversary. Yes my diversity is June twenty-seventh Twenty fifteen okay so several months in advance all right. Let's get out of the past. When my wedding anniversary when's mine other number three? I remember when you're when you're wedding was because we had a nice is text message exchange. I think like the night before and during my rehearsal dinner yeah and that was my brother's Bachelor party which was for many reasons it's a very memorable occasion can't can't can't get too deep into that. We've we've got kids listening all right other number three. Let's talk of the Gawkers Patricia Reilly rights so I just started re watching house of the rising sun and Jin Pummeling Michael and trying to drown him and I had to pause right and say freaking gawkers walkers what the hell yeah put your songwriter getting another. Lv People. I've we've put everyone on Gawker. Watchman and Stefan Johnson also noted that during the live together die alone speech that when Jack says like we need we need people to go at first light to go back to the the caves. There are only three people volunteered charlie kate and Locke and that's it. No one else is going to go. Get the water for everybody. no. I got something to do down by the beach today so I can't. I'm sorry unbelievable all right other number four question as something that you've been hinting at a softer Jin Jin cut out of the episode and this is from just sterling who writes in originally in a scene that was cut sons burst act assertiveness against Jin was her walking away from him while he explains why he moved them to the caves and also Jin apologizing to Michael and Walt for the watch blow up. Why do you think they push these story points for later episodes? This episode ends with Jin still being the bad guy in son still being submissive to her husband also just a small piece of trivia throughout the show we hear Jin and sun calling each other. What sounds like your bow but the subtitle simply we say their names and reality this is a Korean term of endearment that similar to honey or deer hunting as in what the bees are craving? He's gone for some Yobo on Charlie's face yeah. I think that this is I think that this is a good choice good choice to push Jin's redemption Ark mark too late in the season especially because it allows us to have that really emotional reunion between Jin and sun right before the raft launch. It's playing playing the long game here right like they're playing out the fact that like they're hoping that they're going to have more time to tell these stories and if they do when they eventually showed that Jin is not the scoundrel that you think he is that he actually does have more dimension to him. I think it's going to land with more impact. I think if Jin just like the full turnaround in this episode and the space this episode food given everything else that's going on. I think that it would have been I don't know I don't think it would have played quite as strongly I agree. I think if it was like a one time thing if it was more like a Sitcom where it's like okay we got to wrap this arc by the end it would make sense but there was a lot more time and there's a lot more of ginger figure out what relationships and I think it's more it's weird say things are realistic. inlaws considering the circumstances but it's more realistic where you know I don't think he would immediately be forgiven. Slash forgive people I think that those relationships and those moments limits and those conflicts are going to stew Michael Telling Jin stay away from my son is going to hold a lot of wait until we get to the wrath when they're invariably paired together so so I think it's a good choice as the Jin defender would have been nice but we're GONNA get some redemption down the line which I think makes a taste a little bit sweeter. Okay well amber is going to show up as the Jin defender this other number five and amber has written a defense of Jin Soo Kwon amber writes in and says I feel I'm going to need to come forward into in the defense since of Gin I expect there will be a lot of gin heating and I want to get ahead of that not so much amber I think people who need to Gin. We turned the corner engine and in any case I feel like the defense. This is worth reading Amer says I expect people talk about how major jerk and then eventually changes in gross and certainly gen changes and grows by don't believe Jin was ever a major jerk. I feel no motivation and intention matter a lot so with that said I think all of his actions on the island and back in flashback world are done in service of loving and protecting Sun the first time on the island that we see Jin is the initial crash ginny screaming and trying to find honey honey. You're ball not the bees. The first time we met used as hunting all the peace just hurts. I really funny now. Just imagining Jin Nicholas Cage Oh Eddie justice up in a polar bear Alfred and punches someone that'd be great the first time we really see Jin sun interacting as when gentle Sunday button her blouse sons defiance and desire to dress as she pleases more indicative of her independence and broaden worldview but it it doesn't mean that genesis jerk for trying to hold what he believes and that's been taught by his culture to be appropriate. I don't think it's fair to expect to conform with Western ideas of behavior especially knowing that Jin was it's not raised in an environment where he was exposed to different ideologies the rest of genes interactions with sun or basically Jin trying to take care of Sun when he tells her to drink he's not being a jerk comes comes from a place of concern when he tells her did not worry about interacting with the other survivors because he'll tell her what to do. He's merely acting as protector and provider as his culture demands of a husband. Even beating the living daylights out of Michael is ultimately in an effort to protect son when at the airport told that if he doesn't deliver that watch a lose son Mr Pyke essentially Ashley threatened son's life if that watches not delivered in that moment not only is Michael preventing him from delivering that should they be rescued but his inability to deliver the watch could possibly Sibley mean son's life will be in jeopardy on that plane at least amber. Mike Bloom cosigns at night. Come around to it as well final point from amber is off the island Jin is damaged in distant instant with son which understandably put strain on their relationship ultimately however we know this is because he's trying to provide for her to protect her from the truth about her father Hashtag. It's complicated. I clone located. Stop It. We're better than this I was. I was held my tongue. When you said turn the corner almost said turn the corner? We Know Hey w stop we've grown. We've changed but we always go back. We really have had yeah. We really all right other number six. Let's talk some cups handcuffs to find Johnson writes in. It says it'll be one season in three episodes before Jin gets his handcuff removed. I'm probably reading too much into it but do the handcuffs have a greater significance jen handcuffed to working for sons a whole dad sons handcuffed to her marriage to Jin. Everybody handcuffed to this crazy island and Ben Martell ads is Jin's handcuff his equivalent of Charlie's moth where once it comes off Jin's redemption arc is complete handcuffs are a good metaphor for the foolhardy commitment. You and Mike have made down the hatch which I wear this handcuff proudly. Yes justice kinky too. I think that I mean I would argue that. His redemption Ark is complete before the actually gets on on off in the hatch but I I really like this idea that I think the idea of confinement is represented in so many ways lock was confined to a wheelchair kate with someone who is confined into cops many a time before getting to the island and tells you this really fun idea where like we said Jimmy's GonNa end up wearing this cuff on his wrist for an entire season season and it's a fun little. I don't know tying to the fact that the reason why he gets in the first place is because he goes after another piece of jewelry in a watch so he is getting his own sort of representative watching away absolutely other number seven. We're talking about the the moment where Sun reveals that she speaks English Sarah Dot stripes from Canada writes in and says for me. The revelation that son speaks English was just as big a moment as finding out that was in a wheelchair even on the rewatch. I get goosebumps bumps. I remember on my first watch. There was something almost jarring about hearing her speak English. When I had never heard engine Kim's voice speaking my own language before down Sarah Vo also writes in and says where to Sun knowing how to speak English rank in the loss twists take a lot of people often forget about this early twist? Where does it rank? I don't know about where ranks thanks but I remember being stunned by it. You know I think like like in hindsight. It made immediate sense but I think again because I was I I had familiarity with Daniel Day Kim playing playing this character from twenty four. I remember being like Oh wow so. He's not going to speak English on on the show at all and like I kind of waiting for there to be a twist on that front so son was a bit of a blind spot in the early going lost so when she stepped forward I think like the moment that like she came into the into the forest and like peeping on Michael as like okay. Something's about to give but up until that moment it was not even something that was really on my raider. I don't think I remember this was the second episode of Lost I ever saw so this promptly blew my mind because I didn't realize I showed you twist like this. It definitely sticks out in my mind for for that reason but I can understand especially around things like the walkabout reveal informally sort of pales in comparison to it but I feel like of the big reveals we have for these loss characters. I it's certainly ranks up there all right. We're going to talk about Bobo a little bit here in other number eight which comes to us from Scott French who is GonNa Hassle passes some indignation some some righteous fury to unload and I will try to channel that from Scott French Scott Brench rights I get Jason Wants to leave Jin at this point but she's getting her. Oh we found out who wrote the series Bible. I guess the House of the rising sun is not a forever the home oh Jin is not blameless either a new addition to the family Mehta's Lark because he's an absent husband isn't the best motivation when we later learned that Bopha was a gift from a grateful business associate taking it away from his daughter and likely a very loving family. It doesn't get much better this lack of responsibility polity foreshadows. The fate of their daughter. I like Gin and son is arguably my favorite character on this show of great characters wow but these are like the real life friends that you adore but hope never have children. I mean like it could be worse. She could be like all right. We'll just leave the dog there and see what happens you know she wanted to get properly taken curve and to be fair when son does make her way back as part of the oceanic six they do give Bopha back you know so. I think that I would actually think it's a very smart mart logical intelligent move than just being like yeah let the dog off leash one day and he just sort of wander around 'cause Lord knows I'm not GonNa take care of them. She needed to get out of that situation nation and she she needed to get out of there in the way that she was going to get out of there and she wasn't GonNa Leave Bopha with Jin because what if Jin was really furious and who knows what he would they might just tear Jin's jugular. I guess that's possible but she at least she had it lined up. She's like her decorator friend was going to be depots new caretaker so it's not like she didn't have yeah. I'm sure it was very difficult for son to leave bopha yeah because I don't want care Mr Paik 'cause then just coming out of a bad ass other number nine verses shelter people some questions about this a cerebral writes in who also by the way no no additions to the dude would count this. We have Chinese counter to do yeah. I hope that that's coming close to an end down several rights why site so against the move to the caves that he's mobilizing people against Jack's idea approaches Michael as if he's trying to form an alliance what's his motive Eric Davis Stein rights and said has anyone even seemed to signal fire. That's being referenced. I didn't make it up to avoid living with that fire at the end of the episode. Is that the signal fire. Do we count that yeah I would say so but I think what I don't even think it's pertained to the signal fire and aside says but I feel like his team transceiver partout mission is more so what pertains to the beach right. I'm assuming he's still trying trying to work on getting that. Signal triangulating I can assume going to the caves really stymies that yeah I think so. I don't know why it fits. He asks us our team. JACKER team saieed eight and I don't understand why we can't be both. I don't understand why there can't be a group of people that go to the caves. Were thirsty or maybe the weaker of the pack back who require some shelter who would not be able to withstand a one on one confrontation with the Predator who would be obliterated in battle and why that can't be one group and why can't be leading the beach people and why they can't have designated go-betweens. I don't know why why this has to be an US versus them. Yeah Mike I agree. This is a short-sighted stuff and they both have benefits like yes the caves do you protect you from the Predator and also provide freshwater easily. The beach is good to flag down others driving boats than might be able to steal children and so I feel like there is a way to sort of divide and I think that Jack was fine with that. Inevitably I think he was not fine with Kate specifically be like he says someone else could stay behind and keep watch. Maybe feel like ideally own handful of people would stay on the beach while the majority of people lived in caves but ends up being more of an even split from what I remember the other number ten some people who also have noted that Jackson reactions with Kate in this episode. We're not great. Dave Baker writes in and says how much does Jack's except flirting influence cates decision not to live in the caves and Jordan from Wisconsin says what exactly did kate due to make Jack Say Kate. How'd you get to be this way just decided to stay at the beach just like a bunch of other people yeah but but she was also like giving him a little bit of food as well? You know like she's like she could have just said hey I I wanna be I I just want to be on the beach to flag down rescue and says he says I don't WanNa be eve and he was like what did I do you know so I can understand understand why he might be a little beleaguered by that. Even though I think kate how'd you get to be this way is a horrible thing to ask. When you want to get someone on your side Yes yes? What do you like this yeah? I don't like it. I don't like it at all. Are I mentioned the extra in the background towards the end of House of the rising Sun who reminded me of Wilford grimly so I took the liberty to carve out a space for myself here in the fifteen sixteen others section Mike denote the Brindley cocoon line is no okay so here's here's the Brindley cocoon line. The primly cocoon line is a tracker. It's a twitter account that tracks when people have reached eighteen thousand five hundred thirty days as of life on the Planet Earth Aka the same age that Wilford grimly was when cocoon was released in the nineteen eighteen eighties wilford grimly who in that film looks like he could have easily been in his late sixties early seventies but in fact was just barely passed fifty eighteen thousand five hundred thirty days of life. Is this a surprising statistic to you Mike Yeah I mean I'm just trying to do the math in my head and I never knew this existed element. I'm not a person who remembers much cocoon. If I've even seen it so I I didn't realize like this was a legitimate statistic. Yeah it is it is it is a very legitimate statistic and it's a great twitter account that when famous people all cross the Brim Luke Kuhn Line the twitter account acknowledges these people who have crossed the Brim coon line and it is often very surprising who has reached the same age that Wilford grimly was when cocoon was released in theaters so I wanted to track who has reached the Brim Lee cocoon line nine of the lost series regulars who who is safe who has passed who is soon to pass Do you have any guesses this is as for who has who has already crossed outside of like the obvious ones like taraoke waves say six or seven Michael Michael Emerson is sixty five Malcolm. David Kelley is four thousand years old yeah I would say Jacob and the man in black passed I don't have I don't have Richard Richard alpert definitely past the cocoon line. He's passed the cocoon line. He's fifty one years old. I think one that may be a little surprised herald paranoid fifty six years old that feels like a surprise to me Matthew Fox's past. He's crossed the line. He's fifty three years saying they pass because that really makes it sound like cross. The the line crossed the line. He crossed the line Daniel Day Kim Man of the hour. He's crossed the Brim Lee cocoon line. He's fifty one years old. Okay okay now. What about some of our female? Oh castaways evangeline lilly safe. She's not she is. She is many many miles to go before she reaches. The line sportier sold your engine Kim. She's in the yellow hello. She's looking at stuff far away. Scot five years before she reaches the Brindley cocoon line some people who will be crossing it this year Josh Holloway. We'll be crossing the line in roughly two hundred days. Wow Josh Holloway will reach the age that Wilford Brindley was when cocoon was released in in Theaters Ken Lung Aka Miles strong. He will cross the line in two thousand twenty his Co.. Freighter Jeremy Davies Aka Daniel Faraday Day he will cross it in two thousand twenty as well and I think Elizabeth Mitchell is going to cross it by early twenty twenty one. It feels like we're doing some sort of bastardize entertainment payment tonight. Like what are the celebrity birthdays. Yes yes all right what sorry about something a little more serious other number twelve lost portrayal of race and social issues we touched upon on this earlier and people had a lot to say about that including John Crafts the aforementioned who says the conflict between Jin and Michael which Michael Interprets to be racism is in reference to some very real racial tensions that emanate from Los Angeles where Michael is from and the Rodney King riots of the early nineties this inside being from quote unquote a terrorist country are really the closest that lost ever gets to covering social issues they pretty quickly beer into Sifi territory and leave the real stuff behind Sarah from Canada notes that something I love about season one that I think we've really lose plots. Get thicker in the characters get worn in is the more honest portrayals at the challenges intentions tensions that can arise when you throw together a diverse group of people from a number of very different backgrounds in this episode alone we have a discussion about tension between black people and Korean people which his meaningful to Michael as an American but not to eat as an Iraqi Michael having to find a way to communicate these tensions to his son without passing on any racial bias of his own Hurley early showing some ignorance by continuing to refer to the Qantas Chinese and of course Sawyers Rolodex nicknames for Saieed. I feel loss really ends up sacrificing these more granular in realistic dynamics in the face of larger plot points and while that might be understandable. It's a strength. The first season has over the following seasons for me. I think that AH this ground level of reality in the early going of lost is another big argument in favor of why season is my favorite season of the show yeah because it's more simplistic nick right like like Sarah says it's less PLOP base. It's more so hey here's a bunch of people stranded on an island. What the hell are they going to do whereas not just say get away from the characters in future seasons but it's much more about how do these characters handle certain big mysteries on the island? I think the first season does a remarkable job the baby even better than any other show in existence in setting up this incredibly diverse opinionated group of characters and building out their stories so we know who they are arrest people before we go down the hatch from a certain perspective and yet it does stink to lose some of that. you know even the flashbacks after season one for some of our season in one characters aren't great because they're just trying to find new ways to rework these characters that we already know so much about this episode pairs especially within translation insolation is a great example of that other number thirteen our first look at time travel Daniel Brennan writes it says revealing Adam and eve in such an early episode sewed obviously created an opportunity for the raiders reveal something later in the show's run the best idea that ultimately won the man in black and mother which I think works well. I am someone who likes across the sea with that said. Who else do you think the writers considered to be in the cave? Ben Martell notes that the script originally had Jack's saying that the bodies could date from centuries earlier despite his fabric degradation estimate. Do you think there's ever anybody else in mind or do you think that ultimately Damon when Lindelof idea always was that this was going to be some ancient entities that we're going to have like a big thing to say about the ultimate cosmic themes of lost. No I mean I guess it it comes down to what hobby are said before about. How Jacob in the man in black weren't really a conversation in season one you know so I wonder if they just sort of kept the door open like with with the Russo stuff as to okay there? Were people people that were on this island before but I don't know if it goes necessarily back to okay. It's GonNa be these two. You know these mythical people that are the first to arrive on the island and the big battle of good and evil they represent that transcends millennia it could just be like people from village that used to be here and they played with rocks and they put rocks in their pocket or it could be a burial ceremony. I don't know how much they had built into that plot bridge at the point where they brought this idea up okay a couple a final others that are less connected to house of the rising sun in her a little bit more generally lost other number fourteen comes from Angel Woodrum who writes in and says something that I'm realizing on this second watch almost ten years after lost is just how great the female characters are of course women are underrepresented in the show as a listener pointed out on last weeks feedback section in addition to that high school brain with its internalize unchecked sexism didn't allow me to see the depth of Kate's character remember things she was just a love love interest to Sawyer and Jack which is so much more even just in these first eight episodes that every watched so far so shame on you high school Angel Angel Zone where it's for not respecting kate more this applies to other female characters to yeah I mean I think it just in talking about engine Kim's performances as son. I hope that we've articulated takeaway did the great depths of our love for that performance specifically. I think that son is one of the great unsung characters of this show. Yeah I completely agree and look angel. Don't be too hard on yourselves. We all have wack opinions in high school but the brain matures and we naturally gain new better editor opinions so just because we have lack opinions our entire lives. Unfortunately we're constantly failing. Sometimes we've got good ideas more often than not. We've got bad ideas. Can you tell that we're almost three hours into a podcast. Stamina is depleting the final other speaker wish the vital other sort of Katie Phipps who has a really funny funny feedback says my husband is the person who got me into lost. He watched it as it aired and has seen the series three times hi through I I watched it about two years ago with him. During one of his re watches and I am again watching with you guys now yesterday I was talking with him about how you all have have no patience for the people who are like they were dead the whole time it's purgatory to my surprise. My husband revealed that he is one of the people who believes that they were dead the whole all time. What kind of argument can I make to prove to him that he is wrong? Should I just keep listening helped me win this Katie. I believe the only answer is divorced. That's it that's irreconcilable differences. He does not get the adding to lost. I understand we can fix this if Jin and sun and can work it out you guys to get a Sharpei who understands the ending of lost desk the true the true reconciliation all right Katie. Here's what you gotTA. Do you gotta get get a job. He didn't that Dog Bobo. Okay the dog Bobo ideally can speak English. We'll speak to your husband and say hey. I'm a talking dog named Bravo and I've been listening to this podcast called loss down the hatch and hosts there. They talk for a very long time about lost every week. The two long ago way too long on this podcast and they insist that the whatever happened happened everyone was alive and there is no purgatory accepted the end where there was like some white purgatory but it was it was light. Minimal territory is is very is very soft purgatory. Eh occurred at the end of the show but everything else was real. All of that stuff was real Katie. If that doesn't work keep US posted and we'll workshop some other ideas for how to convince your husband that he is wrong because he's absolutely wrong one hundred percent wrong. I think that honestly just show the last scene where it's you know Jack Jack and whatever embodiment Christian shepherd is where Jack Literally says like did I die and Christian literally outlines the entire twist. I think that's all you need and know everything that happened to you was real everyone dies eventually you died and now you're here but that doesn't mean you've always been dead and and then if that doesn't work get your new dog to do a lip dub of the scene so that he understands it coming from a different animal how many people Mike do do you think we will inspire to go out and get dogs named Bobo over the course of our time here on down the hatch. Oh boy just one. I feel like it was a success if they do you can make a middle name of our combined names to make sure that Josh Mike Yeah that it's like an actual like inside joke and we just didn't have to piggyback on a a couple that name there Doug Bhopal at the same time yeah assure would be mosh. Yes Bobo Mush Bobo Marsh all right Senator Pictures Mush when you get them all right. Let's get to twenty three points. This is where we give out. MVP points in L. VP points the the stars of the hour our and the losers of the hour who won house of the rising sun who lost house of the rising sun. I will be giving to empty P points this week. Mike will be giving out three Mike will be giving out to LV points and I will be giving out three and just to set the deck of what we're at right now. Kate is the leader with five. Mvp Points Lock in Jack Act both at four the monster has three say Gerard has to Claire Littleton has won the Pitchman Ray moen clocking in with one MVP point Seth Norris. It's the brother of chicken John. They are minus one a piece of Marshall minus one for dying as was the reason why we took one away from seth north by the boars. Their mind is one Christian shepherd minus when he also died Margot shepherd minus one the gawkers have lost a point Krissy. The oceanic agent controversially lost point Shannon Rutherford is in minus one Michael Michael Dawson minus two sawyer minus three. He'll make that up randy nations minus three it will only plummet the further we see Randy nations in the future and Boone is also sitting at negative three all right Mike who gets your first. MVP point for this episode a little girl said the summit come out tomorrow but it's coming out today in the form of MLB points gotta give it to Sun here big revelation on her part plus Johnson Kim this fantastic performance especially in those flashback seeds you gotta give it to her fully co-signed I give son an MVP point as well and in fact I would give her to. MVP point this week if not for the fact that I have to reserve serve won MVP point clearly for Bo the dog so both of the dog gets one for me and son gets one from me as well for all the reasons you've outlined well. Let's keep it in the family. This might be a bit controversial. I'M GONNA give point to Jin. Hey whoa okay we'll because yes I understand that his particular portrayal in this episode is not looking great but I love the argument was provided in a previous other and honestly I feel like look worse. Spoiler filled podcast we look at things from the context of the entire series. If if you look at these events knowing Jin's character and knowing especially how he comes things from in translation I feel like it really fills out his character and makes him look very very different went and very caring what he's portrays anything but in this episode so I'm going to give him a point here it's biased but what the hell okay you get another point to hand out. 'cause I'm giving one to son. I'm giving giving the dog and you get a third and the point to award. Let's give it to John Burris here. Let's give a talk okay Mr Lauk yeah. I think that you know lock is still in his wise old sage point where he's not going into crazy territory and he's sets Charlie on a really good path. That's going to really come to fruition as soon as next episode owed and I think you know the fact that he himself as a secret driveshaft fan as well as a really fun character note alright so lock gets point that brings them up to five he he is tied with Kate Austen for the most envy points at the moment. I've got three L. V. P. points to award and I will I will give two of them right now. Adam and Eve Lolo Mary and Jesus lose appoint the man in Black Aka the monster man and Allison Janney who has not even yet appeared on the show air both losing a point and of course as my tradition here in the twenty three point sections actions just spread the for the for the crime of dying died and so they lose a four to fifty years ago. I had to be consistent uh-huh so they each lose a point. Who Do you have as healthy? This might be a bit controversial. I'm going to give I'm going to take a point away from Kate. Oh Wow wow okay so lock might a passer and every thing I'm just hung up on and I know we have a couple pieces of feedback about this as well. It just doesn't settle to me this whole thing about you know the jacker being viewed as being in a relationship so she doesn't want to necessarily do that. You know I feel like somebody had said. Did I forget who that like. They really liked kate up into this point and this is maybe when we start to see kate get a bit away from that character that was really interesting in the first few episodes. It's just a character note. That doesn't necessarily resound with me. I don't WanNa be eve type of thing so I'm GonNa docker one for that. Okay so it's a sea change it was gonNA make a bad charlie joke where kate was in the lead and lock was right in the running for it and unlock is now leading the MVP category with five points total in K. at four. Somebody has finally pushed past kate her. The rain was strong but it is currently at an end. Yes but I'm going to give another one. We mentioned this before. Let's make it pay off gawkers walkers. You're not off the hook your point doc to and around Sir all right. We'll speak in a doc. I'm GonNa take a point away from Jack. Appoint a way for PAT. You know what he he he gets. He gets people to move to the caves but he's oprah aggressive with Kate and he's wearing an awful shirt and it can't be forgiven. I can't forgive it. Yeah forgive the shirt shirt choice. You need a change in Wardrobe and attitude Jack. Yes all right so this is how it stands. Lock is our leader with five points Keta for jacket three the monster at to site at two sun on the board at two Jin on the board with one Clare remains with one peach man has won. Both the dog welcome to the show one point for Bobo dog show the Quad Cab Seth Norris the pilot brother of John Minus one. The Marshall Man is one that BORES MINUS ONE CHRISTIAN SHEPHERD MINUS ONE MARGOT SHEPHERD MINUS Chrissy the oceanic agent minus one house Janney welcome to the show minus one Shannon minus one Michael Slight redemption minus. Two gawkers are falling further minus two Sawyer lawyer minus three Randy nations minus three boone minus three. Let's get to four point. Two Stars are episode rankings in just a reset this. We had some questions about how how this works. This is how it works on a scale of zero to four point two. We're asking you to rate every episode of lost along side with that's I will give a rating. Mike will give a rating we will then average our listeners who have submitted their ratings third data point and then we will combine nine those three points my point Mike's Point and the audience score for our final official average score does that make sense Mike Yeah it does from my perspective okay. Hopefully it makes sense for your perspective as well. We've been getting a lot of people who've been sending in their four point. Two Star rankings of each episode of lost we will not lock in the final tally for the first season of loss until we finish the first season so even though we are through the house of the rising send you can still send your ratings and this is a flexible document until we are past the finale of season one. UH So why don't we start Mike with where where we are ranking the house of the rising sun. Why don't you go first? How does this episode stack up for you on a scale of zero to four four point two yeah surprise surprise if you have not been listening to the past three hours I'm very high on this episode much like Charlie until locked took those drugs away? I'm giving it a three point eight. There's a lot of really great stuff in there. We found a lot out about the Jin and sun relationship all the flashbacks scenes I think are super interesting and the various ways you know definitely bolstered by two fantastic performances big twist in Sun speaking English we get the the big Cave Beach Schism Charlie starts to give in to sobriety I- dachshund points because of the because you know some of the stuff we talked about is not great and compared to walkabout pilot and white rabbit. This is a great episode of loss but those are legendary episodes so by comparison three point. I think it's still a pretty lofty score. Yeah I had in my original thinking of the early episodes of lost I think I had this behind Tabula Rasa and having reviewed both of them so quickly after one another. This is a better episode Tabula Rasa. Originally I was going to have them about the same I rated Tabula Rasa three point five. I was going to do the same for house of the rising sun then we'd go three three point six with house of the rising sun. I think this is a really good episode of lost. Almost every episode of losses really good episode of lost so this is like a basic score that I will probably a slap onto most episodes. I would guess but I will. I will put three point six on it. I think it's better than I remembered that moment where where Sun reveals that she speaks English is still a great moment the audience average as it currently stands people who have submitted their scores for house of the rising sun three point four which combined for three point four on the floor which combined with Mike's Score score gets a three point five nine stars so so this is the current ranking of five episodes of lost. If we're combining to pilot in Fifth Tabu Rossa is bringing up the rear with three point four in fourth house of the rising sun with three point five nine in third white rabbit with three point nine seven in second the pilot four appoint one two and in first place walkabout with four point one six that is the current down the hatch ranking of the episodes of loss which is something we are tracking throughout down the hatch to get the most scientifically decided upon episode rankings of lost in the history of time. There's that side kind of a scientist coming out. I told you I told you all right. So how do we do on time. Did we go. Did we go under one hundred eight minutes. Finally no we did not go under one hundred eight minutes. Okay well good news Mike Bloom. We're revamping the rules revamping the rules. We had a great suggestion skin from a bunch of people over the past few weeks but it was it was a great articulation from at least a meter who wrote into us with with a suggested rule change that we're gonNA. WE'RE GONNA implement from from this point forward unless it causes a riot. I hope it doesn't cause a riot police wrote in and said I had a suggestion regarding the forty two you to one hundred and eighty minute rule. I'm pretty sure the reason you had that one hundred eight minute rule was to wrangle in the number forty two as well as one hundred. I could be wrong about this. Of course you're not. It's basically why we underestimated our own. Law Your Voice because she at least continues since you recently added the four point two star rating you no longer need that lower bound number now. The only thing you need to do is find a way to integrate number one hundred and eight you already proven that you're going to go over the meeting minutes almost always so why not repurpose the use of the number since the goal of the wheel is to deliver extra content as a length supplement. SORTA doesn't make sense to keep recording more when you're already at three and a half hours in a week. That's a solid chunk of time so why not use the frozen donkey wheel as a backup for when you don't deliver enough of content instead that is to say if you were to do a recap podcast that somehow manages to go less than one hundred eight minutes you would have to spin the wheel as a way to supplement at that shorter time period this would create more of a balance between those monster-sized episodes in the less meaty ones. This can come into play after running the wheel through. If you don't WanNA switch ideas halfway through uh-huh you underestimate our desire to switch things up continues. I think this method would be more beneficial to you guys in terms of avoiding burnout. Don't get me wrong. I'll listen the eight hours of content a week and won't complain but I'd rather listen to three hours a week for the next sixty two years then risk you guys collapsing halfway through a sprint so hopefully switching less spend one hundred and eight minutes to more than one hundred eight minutes is a caveat you guys can get down with. Thank you for reigniting my passion for this show a lease. Thank you forgiving us an idea that we can absolutely get down the hatch with so moving forward the frozen donkey wheel which generates bonus content here on down the hatch. We are only going to spend this thing if we go under one hundred eight minutes. That's the rule change. I mean hot. Take care this. Give me a weird prediction. It says we sort of manifest. It probably won't happen until at least season two I would say I hope so. I hope so listen. We are having a blast doing this podcast but we're obviously going very long on these five cast I think at least for the early going as we're establishing some takes on these characters that's going to be the case you cannot burn out. We need to survive live together die alone and all of that so I think we're gonNA take this suggestion. The new promise is if we go under one hundred eight eight minutes. There will be consequences but I think we're going to be hitting close to two hours at the very least almost every time for the future so we are going to graciously accept this suggestion and please do not right. Please do not at us about this. This is something that we wholeheartedly believe in and we believe will be the best way to get you the best content moving forward here down the hatch speaking of foreseeable future Josh. What do we have coming up next all right? Here's what we got coming up next. The moth early grace said when Charlie goes and does a storytelling storytelling competition right that's right. He's got some comedy coming our way in the moth very light episode of Lost Just Coming Up September twenty seventh is when it is going to be dropping in your feed. Give us your feedback by September twenty four in the morning please. You can send our way on twitter making sure you're tagging post show recaps. I'm at Ron Howard. Mike is at eight Mike Bloom type. You can also email us that is definitely our preference down the hatch at Post Post. Show RECAPS DOT COM subscribe. If you have not done so already pusher recaps dot com slash down the hatch is our apple feed but you can find us on your podcast APP of choice ratings and reviews greatly appreciated folks nine twenty two fifteen year anniversary of lost this Sunday Sunday. We certainly hope you will find some wonderful way of celebrating. We would like to hear how you celebrated loss. Let us know what your nine twenty two celebration plans were are or will be as you're listening to potentially and we will talk about that in our recap of the moth might bloom. What else is going on? Well speaking of other island-based island-based show survivor is barreling down like a gin into a Michael and Josh and I had the privilege of going out to Fiji earlier this year we have provided ample amounts coverage in the form of my articles and Joshes podcasts for Parade magazine. Rob Has a podcast respectively so if you have not dived into that material yet it's it's a group of castaways to almost rival the oceanic crew in terms of diversity in stories and excited personality so be sure to check all that out at the time. We're GonNa let me talking next Josh that the next podcast releases going to be post survivor premier so we'll be living on two different islands right now we will be indeed living on different islands of make AAC sure that you're following all of that coverage we still got succession coverage here on post show recap so if you're watching succession make sure you are listening to that podcast Emily Fox and I are doing and we are just around the corner from some new fall TV shows or returning fall. TV shows. I should say some podcasts asset familiar to post show recaps listeners that will be returning in the near future walking dead coverage is right around the bend are Mister robot coverage the final season also right around the bend if you are not currently catching back up on Mister robot I recommend you do so complicated show. You're going to want to feel freshened wind up before the final season or if you've never seen it now's a great time to go and binge those three seasons Antonia Missouri and I are going to be podcasting about that. Just police and I are going to be podcasting about the walking walking dead season ten ten returns. They both return on the same night so poster recaps about to get very very busy here in just a little while ask for Mike and I it's going to do it for today. Look around you burn down the

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Ep 240 | Bad Theology

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey

33:37 min | 6 months ago

Ep 240 | Bad Theology

"Hey guys welcome to relatable today as you can tell by the title. We are talking about bad theology. I discussed last week wanting to do a segment from now on title Dead Theology where we talk about something that I saw. That is theologically erroneous. Today we are going to dedicate an entire podcast episode to that and it is going to be represented a by someone by the name of Jin Ha maker as seen in a recent instagram post. That a bunch of you guys sent me an asked me to respond to so that's what we are going to be breaking down today. This is one of you. Guys is favourite. Things that I do in. This topic is topic that you guys love to hear about but we're going to come at it from a different perspective always like to give you something something new before we get into it though. Let me tell you guys about Daily Harvest. One of my favorite sponsors. This is a sponsor the company that I use all of the time because I am always running around trying to make sure that I get my three square meals in as I'm working and being a mom and all that good stuff and I wanna make sure that they are. Nutritious in daily harvest helps me do that. So daily harvest delivers delicious. Clean food right to your door. It only takes a few minutes to prepare probably less than a few minutes. I would say it takes like two two minutes to prepare a couple minutes to prepare and I never have to question if the food that I'm eating is good for me. Because all of the daily harvest ingredients are. Everything's as fresh in your freezer until you are ready to enjoy it. You don't have to over. Think your meals for the week dog meal. Prep all that stuff that takes forever. You don't do that with daily harvest. It never uses preservatives at sugar. 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Often hat maker that we have discussed specifically on this podcast. There is actually an episode titled Jin Hat Makers Instagram Post from. Maybe a couple years back at this point so in case you don't know who she is although she is very well known in the female Christian world but just in case. You're not familiar with her. I will give you a little bit of background on who she is and why we're talking about this. This is not about calling specific person out. This is an example of a kind of theology and I put that in scare quotes that is rampant especially in the female Christian world. And that's why it's so important for us to talk about it so jim maker. She's an author. That really blew up a few years ago. Although she's been on the public scene for a really long time her family actually started in each hgtv series while back as well she successfully. It became known as kind of like the go-to voice for stressed out Christian woman and specifically MOMS. She is amazing. She truly is amazing. At relating to this group her writing is very unique very in her voice. So it's readable it's relatable it's very down to earth and she has this way of explaining things genuinely that makes you go. I've never thought about that before. And kind of makes you look away from the page and think about things and so. She's very effective and very successful in her communication. She is extremely charming. Like I said extremely relatable so. It's really easy to see why so. Many women are attracted to her and see themselves reflected in her. It's truly a gift. And at one point. She was regarded as very main stream in really for a lot of people. A solid theological voice. I'll be honest. I was never a like a follower or reader of genetic meeker because when she would her star was racing I was younger. I would save in her target demographic but I knew who she was in college. And I certainly don't remember have any having any qualms with her anything like that. But she shifted around two thousand sixteen when she started being public advocate of gay marriage. There was an interview in two thousand sixteen when she said that. Lgbt relationships in marriage are wholly just as holy as any heterosexual relationship. She is openly supported. Gay Marriage regards gay relationships like I said is just as Biblical Justice. Holiest any other kind of relationship. Now if you are new to this podcast maybe you don't understand why that's a big deal or maybe you're just in a different place than I am. You don't agree with me. Ideologically and theologically and so two you like. That's not a big deal at all. Why does it matter what she thinks about marriage? Her instagram captured wasn't even about that. But I'll explain to you why I'm going to address her perspective on marriage a little bit more in depth because it is pertinent to what we're talking about today so you can go back and listen to episode one hundred twenty six of this podcast titled Biblical Marriage. The reason the biblical definition of marriage as between the woman is so important is not because of a couple of days and Old Testament or even in the new testament although we shouldn't discount those verses just because culture says they should be discounted. I explained the reason why it's so important very thoroughly in that episode episode 126. We're going to rehash it a little bit today. I have an alliteration for the reason. The definition of marriage matter so much to the Christian worldview and to biblically accurate in sound theology. And it's important that we know that John Hat maker doesn't hold the biblically. Sound theology on marriage in all. Explain why that matters to what her instagram caption said. And why it matters to how we should approach What someone like her says about God in the Bible so the reason why the definition of marriage matters and it matters what had happened maker thinks about marriage as a professing Christian is because the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman is rooted in creation. It is reiterated in both the old and the new testaments it reflects the relationship between Christ in the Church and therefore reflects the Gospel which means consequently. If you get it wrong the rest of your theology is very likely going to be off so I one biblical marriage is rooted in creation genesis. Two eighteen a fourteen through eighteen. Actually think that I got the reference wrong when I wrote it down to. I'll go back and correct myself on that but it says the Lord God said Oh it's eighteen through twenty four then the Lord God said it is not good that the man should be alone I will make him a helper fit for him. Now out of out of the ground for the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the Mantis. See what he would call it. Whatever the man called every living creature that was its name the man gave names to all livestock into the birds of the heavens to every beast of the field but for Adam there was not found. A helper fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man and while he slept took one of his ribs enclosed up its place with flesh and the rid that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man than the man said. This last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and they shall become one flesh and the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. So that is genesis two eighteen through twenty five. Does that sound? This is a rhetorical question. But I guess it's kind of not depending on what your perspective is. Does that sound arbitrary? Te'o does that sound from that passage of creation does it sound like God unintentionally or arbitrarily put male and female together does it sound like male and female are interchangeable in this passage. Does it sound like the marriage relationship or the gender binary for that matter is up for. Debate is subject to cultural change or human whips. No of course it doesn't God made woman in marriage specifically for man and vice versa. He created their relationship as between male and female specifically purposefully intentionally and beautifully. A biblical marriage is reiterated throughout the Bible. Not just in the Old Testament in the laws for Israel but in the New Testament as well Jesus reiterated the creation of marriage in Matthew nine thousand nine hundred forty six. Haven't you read? He replied that at the beginning. Creator made them male and female and said for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh so they are no longer two but one flesh therefore what God has joined together. Let no one separate so those out there. The what I call the hipster. Jesus Christians who say that. Jesus never had anything to say about. Today's controversial social issues. I would venture to guess that they are not reading very closely again. The question we should ask. Those who say Christian should embrace gay marriage. So they're not only saying that creation itself was arbitrarily basically meaningless but also that Jesus words about marriage or arbitrary and meaningless and we should just ask if that's the view that they really hold that Jesus is words. Don't really mean what they clearly mean when you read. The text makes clear why the creation of marriage was not arbitrary because bringing us to our third reason. Biblical marriage reflects Christ and the Church so efficient five twenty two through twenty four wives submit to your own husband as to the Lord for the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ as the head of the church his body and is himself it safe here now is the church amidst a Christ so also wives should submit everything to their husbands husbands. Love your wives. As Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her and then Fiji. It's five thirty one to thirty three. This gives a deeper meaning to the creation of marriage by saying this Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is profound. I am saying that it refers to Christ in the church. Let each one of you love his wife as himself and let the wife seed that she respects her husband so the marriage relationship according to this passage according to the Bible between one man and one woman is rooted in creation is reiterated in both the old and the new testaments and by Jesus himself is reflective of the relationship between Christ and the Church and in that way is representative of the Gospel. The Gospel is crazed lane himself down sacrificing himself for the Church for the body of believers occasions. Five says that that is how husbands are to love their wives radically. Uh sacrificial in wives are to honor their husbands submit to their husbands in the same way that they submit to the Lord so marriage between a man and woman is reflective of the Gospel and finally ultimately gloriously. We see that all of this ends all of this ends with Jesus coming back for his church which is depicted in revelation nineteen as a marriage a wedding feast between what the Bible says is the bride the church and the bridegroom Jesus so the definition of marriage by God as between a man and a woman isn't arbitrary. It's not according to God. The one who made marriage up for grabs or up for debate. It is depicted throughout the entirety of the biblical narrative. As a purposeful intentional symbolic Perry male and female are not interchangeable therefore the definition of marriage is not malleable. Which is why when a professing Christian gets this wrong. It is catastrophic for the rest of their theology. A marriage is not a small part of the biblical narrative. It's not this throwaway. Aspect of God's Eternal Story of Redemption. It is hugely meaningful. And when we try to manipulate God's intentional design of gender in marriage. We are saying that we don't believe God and that we don't trust God if we think that we know better so for professing Christian to save it mean bigoted or wrong to define marriage. How God defines marriage is for that professing Christian to say that God is big and they are more compassionate than got but newsflash for every single one of us no matter what every single one of us we are not more compassionate were more loving or more kind than God's If our good faithful in all knowing God says that something is one way then far. Be It from us. Fallible shortsighted finite simple people to say otherwise if you were willing to discount what God says about something as significant as as marriage if you're willing to discount what he says about marriage this hugely important thing according to the biblical taxed. What else are you willing to discount? What other parts of Scripture and the redemption story are you willing to throw out because it's uncomfortable or it's culturally inconvenient? The answer as as we as we see time and time again with people who hold this view and profess to be Christians. The answer is a lot. You're willing to throw out a lot. Whenever we see someone compromise on the definition of marriage. We always I will say always is I have seen anyway. See some kind of compromise in other areas of theology as well. Because if you're going to redefine the very institution that both start and end the Bible. Why shouldn't you pick and choose other parts to according to what you think Fisk? You'll see them the people who hold this view who evolved in their views of marriage beyond what the Bible says marriage is you will see them soon. Scoff at the idea of Sin. As a whole they will downplay the importance of holiness and obedience they will start labeling anyone who actually regards the biblical definition of marriages fundamentalists. This big scary word that they use to try to demonize people who believes the Bible's air it Their philosophy will often be one of moral relativism and eventually the content that they write produce will no longer resembled. Theology will no longer resemble the Gospel but will resemble or will be what I call me all AJI so not feel g but meteorology by redefining discounting or ignoring what the Bible says about male and female in marriage along with everything else. This is not the only issue this is not even necessarily the most important issue along with everything else that the Bible says if we discount anything that the Bible says is true or not true good or not good we are saying that we know better than God that we are better than God and consequently placing ourselves on the throne of our lives giving ourself the power to determine what's good and what's not that means that we are bowing down to the God of self not the God of Scripture and that's not to say that genuine Christians don't ever get it wrong because of course we do. I've gotten many things wrong. I will continue to be wrong on things but at the end of the day for you and for me For the Christian. We've been ourselves to the unbiddable truth of scripture. Not the other way around. I am always willing to be wrong. In the face of the truth of God's word out when we binge scripture to fit our opinion we are effectively making ourselves God and we are not good. God's all of that leads me to Jin hat makers recent instagram posts. Which doesn't have anything to do with biblical marriage but does give us a solid background of. Why her theology has gone so off rails and has led to this instagram post that as that represents a so much of the terrible? Miala G that we see pervasively among Christian woman. But before I get to that let me tell you guys about a new sponsor that I have that I'm really excited about. I want to tell you. Guys about a new sponsor objective wellness objective wellness provides supplement awesome supplements to make sure that you are feeling your best so objective wellness offers targeted solutions. Like better sleep. Firmer scanner healthy immune system. They've got supplements for all of that stuff. It's backed by science the source our own ingredients. There are endless hours of research behind the stuff that they have dedicated to making sure that these supplements are good and effective and are going to help you achieve your health goals. Whatever they may be. There's not like a one size fits all solution for your wellness and objective. Wellness knows that and so they try to tailor. Your supplement program for you so go to objective wellness dot com use Code Alley to get twenty percents off your first order that is objective wellness dot com. Use Promo Code Alley for twenty percent off. Okay Jen hat makers instagram post. It is a quote from her book fierce free and full of fire and a lot of you guys sent it to me and you said please can you tell me? I know this is off but can you tell me why this is off so fierce free and full of fire is basically. I read the book. But FROM THE SYNOPSIS. And what I can tell from the quotes that she has been posting it. Sounds about the exact opposite of what I believe in my book which comes out August eleventh by the way the quotes on instagram post. Is this now? There's a cuss word and I won't say it. But I'm just warning you women are the baddest at that as she says it And there's nothing. They cannot overcome and accomplish. The caption is long. So I will just read you portions ever captain without decontextualizing anything. Of course you can go and read the caption for yourself. So you don't think that I am trying to pull things out and make her means somebody that she doesn't actually mean. I sincerely believe she says we eat. Women are the answer. Virtually everything that ails society. I trust our instincts and desires in gifts. We want things that are good and true and lovely no matter what. This world has always said about our desires. Trust yourself this week she says. Trust what you care about and what you want and need your body is taking good care of you. I believe in you right now sisters. You are so good. Fierce comes out a week from tomorrow. I wrote it because I love you and I love us. You deserve this investment in Your Own Beautiful D. Word Life. Of course she says it all right so this is exactly why I wrote my book. You're not off which I kind of wish was coming out right now since it's a response to the kind of stuff that is currently engine makers book but we'll just have to wait until August. This is me all gee this is theology because it has nothing to do with God at all and just your online there. The Jin hat maker bills herself as a Christian podcasts Ter- author and influence and she always has if she were just a secular person. I would probably be talking about this. But I wouldn't fault her for not promoting sound theology but she bills herself as a Christian author. So I think that this is fair game to weigh her words against the word of God so this has nothing actually to do with the Bible at all. It has nothing to do with the word of God which is why it's not theology. It is meal this is it godly. This is not cray centered. This is not glorifying to the Lord in any way. This is me this is me what I say is true and what I say feels good. This is all g that she is putting out. This is an Ode to the God of self and quite frankly it's not even remotely compelling. I would say a lot of her. Writing is compelling interesting charming this not so much however because a lot of guys send it to me. I want to address it. Women are the baddest of bad as she says. And there's nothing we can't accomplish so we'll start with that look first of all. I agree that women are awesome. I love being a woman. I've always had really awesome it. Admirable a girl friends and people that I look up to. God thinks women are awesome. In all of their uniqueness and beauty and ability to nurture and nourish and beautify and teach in having children God thinks that we are awesome. He made us fearful wonderfully we just read in the creation account how specially in specifically. God made us so of course. God thinks that women are beautiful made in his image. He made us with special guests in capacities and abilities. That men don't have in vice versa. He made men with capacities and abilities. That we don't have your created to complement one another. I do think that women are capable of incredible things. God uses women throughout the Bible in wonderful in special ways. And that's an amazing. It's an amazing thing. We should be thankful for all of that. How ever are there things that we can't accomplish on her own yes? Are there things that we cannot overcome on her own? Yes because we are fallible. Human Beings Jin's message is a message of self empowerment. This is a different way to say the refrain that we have heard have debunked on this podcast. A million times you are enough in this quote gymnasts sane women. You are enough that you have all the power inside yourself to do whatever you put your mind to but it's not true you're not enough you can't accomplish anything on your own. I don't know if you're the data's Badea I have no idea. The fact is if you were enough if you were raising a perfect just how you are and you can accomplish everything on your own. You wouldn't need Jesus you wouldn't need his salvation hosting to fixation his strength but the Bible says that we've all fallen short of the glory of God that we all need Christ. The Gospel is that is not that you are a bad day. Who can accomplish anything? The Gospel is that you and I are bed period and we need Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins as sixteen to says I have no good apart from you. Therefore it is not comforting her helpful at all to hear that we can accomplish anything. No we can't actually ultimately eternally. There's nothing that we could achieve on our own we're completely helpless visions to says that without Christ. We are dead in our sent but good news because of Christ we are made alive. We are saved by grace through faith in our empowered by the Holy Spirit. To do good works fusions to ten. She says I sincerely believe we. Women are the answer to virtually everything that AOL society. What an amazing statement she says. I trust our instincts and desires and gifts. We want things that are good and true and lovely no matter what this world has always said about our desires really. Women are the answer to what ails society? Jen Girl have you read? Have you read about the garden of Eden like can I introduce you to leave your member? That women are not the answer to what ails society? Men Aren't the answer to what ails to say. The women admitted or what Ails Society? Like who else is causing the problems beside men and women. Simple men and women. We are causing the problems. We are what ails society Christ is the answer. Christ is the answer to literally all that ails society. That's what the Bible is about. That Christ is the antidote to our ailments women now any human beaten now if Jin like I said we're not a professing Christian. I wouldn't expect her to know all of this. I wouldn't be spending my time on this at all. But she is and she is sharing with her four hundred seventy two thousand instagram followers and however many readers. She has something that is not just a little logically off because we've all been there. We've all made mistakes but something that is completely countered with the Gospel in a message that she wrote an entire book on a message that she has been consistently pushing for years. Now she says I trust our instincts and desires in gifts. We want things that are good and true and lovely no matter what. This world has always said about our desires. Trust yourself this week. She says. Trust what you care about what you want and need. Your body is taking good care of you. Why why does Jin tell women to trust themselves? I don't trust myself unconditionally. And you shouldn't either. I do not always desire what is good and true and lovely. And you don't either. Sometimes I because I'm a simple person still being sanctified by Jesus desire what is Selfish. What is wrong sometimes? I am envious. Sometimes I'm unjustifiably angry. Sometimes I'm lazy. Sometime prideful very often. I want things that are not good or true or lovely. Whatever suits me? I don't trust your desires. You shouldn't trust your desires. You shouldn't trust. Oh my desires. I don't trust Jen's desires. I don't trust anyone's desires all the time. Jeremiah seventeen nine says this. The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick who can understand it. Romans seven eight. I know that nothing. Good dwells in me. That is in my flesh. You're not trustworthy. Your feelings your desires. If not its mission to Christ will lead you astray and when I say you're not trustworthy. I'm talking about your heart. I'm talking about your feelings of talking about all of your desires and motives cannot be unconditionally trusted. Jen Says Trust yourself this week. Trust what you care about and what you want in need. Don't trust yourself. You aren't trustworthy to yourself. God is trust which you care about. I care in my simple fleshed. Here's the things I care about. I care about me. There's elves in I I care about net flicks in mice and full nature. I mostly care about what I WANNA do. I care about food I care about sleep. I care about scrolling through instagram. I care about whatever I want you right now but that is not what God calls me to. That is not what God tells me to do. God Calls Me. To be a wife and a mom and to do all things that he has called me too and that does include of course rest and leisure and doing things that make me happy so that sometimes does include net flicks in eating good food and all of that but if I were to trust myself and trust what I care about I would be living a life completely consumed by narcissism inconvenience trusting. Myself isn't enough. If I were to follow all of my feelings I would never do anything that I don't want to do. But daily continually we are called by God to do the things we don't want to do for his glory. Some of them. We do want to do but a lot of things we don't want to do. That's why Jesus calls to deny ourselves to take up our cross to follow him so the good message is not trust yourself. You're taking care of yourself. The better message is do what God calls you to do. Love Him love others seek to glorify him in all you do and trust that he will take care of you. Jesus Jesus says that he is taking care of you. Jen says that you were taking care of you. You've got a finite ability to calm. You're anxious mind and to ease your worried heart. You don't have what it takes to shepherd your soul which underneath all the stress that you are feeling right now. It's what you really need. You don't need anything more than a shepherd of your soul who could exchange all of your anxiety for peace. You're out of control emotions for steadfastness and your desperation for hope and your lack of knowledge for wisdom Jim Maker is a peddler of Miala. Judy it is not typical. It has no cell components to it. It does not satisfy in will only make you emptier the before. This is a new age philosophy. This idea that underneath all of society's expectations in everything that culture tells you is something good and perfect and true that you've got this inner goddess that if you just dig down deep unleash it. You will find all of your heart's desires fulfilled. It's not true what the Bible says. Is that when you look inside yourself? Outside of Christ you find Ro- robbing death. You find nothing you find darkness you find hopelessness but in Christ you are made alive. You are given hope you're given a new soft regenerated heart remember as we have said so many times. The self can't be both the problem and the solution. So if inside yourself you find which we all do if you find insecurity. Anxiety FEAR CONFUSION AND CHAOS. The antidote to these things won't be found inside yourself. How could it but out save yourself a in the God who made you? Who says cast all your anxieties on me because I care for you? What a better message than you take care of you. I it an effort to make you feel better about yourself. Gin and other people like her. So glennon Doyle Rachel Hollis. Jen is actually weighing you down with the burden that you cannot bear and that is the burden of being your own got she says. Trust yourself take care of yourself accomplish things for yourself. Be The solution to all that AOL Society yourself but you and I can't do these things and if we try we will be met with failure. These are burdens that you and I cannot bear and we were never meant to bear them. And there's good news. There's so much better news. This stupid instagram caption. The good news is we don't have to be our own guts. God is our gut. He alone is worthy of our trust. He alone is the caretaker of our hearts and souls. He'll loan can accomplish all things he alone is the solution to all that AOL society and he says that his birds are light and his yoke is easy and he doesn't call us to self empowerment. He calls us to self denial to doing not what we want to do at all times but what he has called us to do which is to love him to obey him and to love others so that is why her instagram caption is not biblical and it might feel good in the moment but it's not good news. The Gospel is good news and it is counter to what? Jin Hat maker is propagating in pay attention. A Won't call out the other names right now. Pay attention to who she's having on her podcast to who is saying. I'm associating with her and I'm her friend and look. I'm not saying that we've all been perfect in Ovar associations and things like that but Yoki yourself with someone who is blatantly preaching a Gospel that is not biblical calling themselves a Christian. It's dangerous territory. It's dangerous territory. Shared this with your friends. Who Love Her. Okay I will be back here on Wednesday with some important news.

Bible Biblical Marriage Jen Girl Jesus instagram Jin Hat maker Dead Theology jim maker Jin Ha Adam John Hat AOL Society hgtv meeker Jin Jeremiah Fiji
LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 2, Episode 16: The Whole Truth

Post Show Recaps

2:10:51 hr | 5 months ago

LOST: Down the Hatch | Season 2, Episode 16: The Whole Truth

"Laws Bre dining room table isn't it? We cut the to suit the purpose. Say can't talk to you of course alone. Whatever you need to say you can say it here. It's about the hatch. Oh you mean the guy locked in the closet. It's his balloon. Did you get them to do this? I asked nicely check unlock. Nobody's checking lager a little too busy worrying about locking Jack who I want to. If these guys telling the truth why come to me. Judging from what you did to his face. That's you want to. This is at least the days. Will she get going HaveN'T LOSS'S OVERALL. We have to go back down the hatchets podcast here on push show recaps. Everybody I'm Josh. Cler joined here by Mike Bloom. Mike Bloom are you ready? To tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the to help Gad. I don't know if I can handle it. I don't know if you can handle it. I mean maybe. Give me an Oscar. I give me an Oscar. Yes that's how most of them do it. I was GONNA say I know. A Ben Linus immediately turned out to this podcast as I mentioned this stance. He's still not available in the library and you had to use the first page of dust. Oem Whole Truth time to spill the milk on the whole truth. Season's episodes sixteen a son. Flashback with splash of Jin. Sounds like a delightful. Drink a drink because sons pregnant Hassan. Hooray John is making a quick. Yes her debut I've got. I don't know why was like a aboard. It's like you give a little ahead of yourself. That's what I was thinking. Yeah though I think it's a nice reference unfortunately does not saying we should ask him King Daddy after my father. Yeah exactly and I I maybe at point again. I'm not entirely sure when it comes to In utero as to what if John has a gender as of yet but it is not to get too much into the gym. A credit where credit is due is brought in we do have a new member of the loss crew brought in in this episode even though she has yet to come into existence until very very foreign the this is the whole truth. Nothing but the whole truth. You're on down the hatch season two episode. Sixteen of course we will be getting to feed back later on the podcast down the hatchet push dot com is the way to send that in very easy very easy to find email address down the hatch at pusher recaps dot com. You can always tweet at us as well at Howard. Mike is at a Mike. Bloom type tag at post show recaps as well. This episode comes to you by Karen Gavitt. Yola director written by Elizabeth Sarnoff in Christina M Kim and as we said last week this episode shows up quite a ways away from maternity. Leave three weeks. After maternity leave March twenty second two thousand six when this episode arrives and Mike. I don't remember if it's funny that I don't remember this. I don't remember. This was something that you and I talked about online or offline last week when we hung up the podcast but I said I have a feeling that the whole truth is the episode of lost that I remember the least that when I think about the entire Pantheon of lost and all of the details like if you showed the title of an episode would you be able to tell me the general plot of what happens in the episode and I think I can do it with all of them but I think I might struggle the most with this one. Yeah I mean first off. It was offline so luckily able to officially canonized that to down the hatches. It makes it's appropriate given this episode. But Yeah I believe that I would say you know. Maybe they're the terminology. Furred is more so replacement level of this idea of like granted. I think every lost episode is its own unique animal but I feel like this is the episode that if you sort of struck it from the record again to go back to court parlance maybe outside of the final scene and the reveal. That son is pregnant. I don't know how much particularly losing from this episode granted. I do not think this episode stretch of the imagination. But I feel like Y- but I think if we're going back to this this well of pacing. The comes with season two this falling right after maternity. I think is very interesting. Because these are two episodes that I think touch upon elements that were existent in season. One obviously one being clair's Jarvis from her time in eight one five crew the other one being Jin and sons continuing soap opera esque marriage but it sort of stuck here amongst the riveting delicious delicious has a nice sugary cereal morsel. That is the Henry Gale of it all just mixed for some really interesting pairing and as a result. I do unfortunately feel like this is one of these episodes where I think. The A plot and the B plot against proxy with the flashback is definitely less remembered and certainly less fondly remembered than a couple of things first of all the ending of this episode is a next level ending for lost when we did our very first episode of down the hatch and we previewed the format man. We really sucked completely to the format. -cations here and there but there ways in which we've done it pretty close to the letter we talked about. We talked about the whole truth. Sending we talked about the Henry Gale ending got anymore milk. Do you guys have any milk? And it's just such a memorably tents scene and that's unforgettable but I think there there have been times where I've forgotten. Where did that fall in lost? Like I know it's in this little mid to late season two area where the is year. Isn't he of it all with Henry? But I don't know that I would have always been able to say it's the whole truth. I think the way to remember that for me. Moving forward much in the way. That Steve's leave and Scott is dead is instead of thinking of this as the whole truth. It's the whole milk. I was GONNA say I remember this as the episode where Bernard Forgets Roses. Birthday called this the whole tooth in honor of the Dasu the whole tooth. Well now. That'll help me remember more of the story line of the whole truth. But that's that's the thing is that it's not that it's a bad episode by any stretch of the imagination. It's a really good episode and I think it's actually a really strong ANNALISA. Oh yeah it almost feels like piss should be an analyst and I would argue. This might be from a character standpoint from a bad good on the DVD morality scale. This is the most good and Lucia episode considering. There are not for the first time many glaring mistakes that she makes an episode. When she's the focus no she. She makes a lot of great decisions as she. She gets the map out of out of Henry She takes it to saieed instead of bothering Jack. And Locke were too busy bothering lock and Jack. I love it when like a Rag. Tag Motley. Crue goes into the jungle. You'll find that tends to be one of my favorite things on law said I enjoy. Give me a Jack Locke and Sawyer Expedition. But those are like tight. Give me like a random hodgepodge squad of of saieed and Charlie going through the jungle and that's GonNa be really fun for me. There's the episode. It's probably considered though. I don't think that it is the weakest Desmond. Episodes is catch twenty two. And that's him it's Desmond it's Charlie it's Hurley Jin the jungle. That's so fun that kind of stuff. This just really really fun for me. When you get those character combinations on these like adventure centric storyline so the whole truth has a amount of that. That stuff is all really fun. It's just I think for me. I do have a hard time sometimes. Like remembering where a like. How the story maps to a certain extent of like on an on island level so like for the whole truth like I kind of get a little. Bit Jumbled of what's going on on the island there other episodes that are that are of this ilk for me of like I. I could tell you what what happens in that episode. It would take me a minute to just like kind of scratch my head and then recite it. Par avion actually on that list all season three. It's another one that has an excellent ending. That's Jack playing football with Tom. But dio see is another quantity sewed and like I would struggle a little bit to remember. Exactly what can I believe? That is sort of like the spiritual sequel to this episode. Rex's when Juliet. I think finally confirms son that Jim is the father. Instead of Shaly the chaotic evil of the Loss Universe yes and then. Jin Dances around on stage to gyles the from the street fighter. So there's there's a couple along the way but I don't think any as as pointed for me as the whole truth which is a shame because I think it actually is a really really good episode. Not like an overly strong episode like totally totally solid episode of season. Two so a lot to get into a lot to get into here Shall we shall we jump exactly? Let's not put the cart before the horse here. We've been shaving long enough josh. Let's finally get out of the bathroom and start this thing. All right yeah. My pores are all opened up. So let's believe we actually starting in the bathroom doing we do we start with like it's like Sunan Jenner Vat to get hot and heavy. They both just look thin. All my God. That's not so I hear but both human beings just look incredible. Listen we're we're going to help me episode very literally thirsty with the cereal of it all. I think it makes sense that we started but yeah I mean this is. They're about to you know. Eat some enchiladas if you get what I'm talking about Though it has its own sort of motives behind it as Jin totally ruins the mood with the. Let's make sure your temperatures right so that you know we'll be able to conceive. I will also say as we serve. Segue into this first episode. This is a very complicated episode for both Jin and Sun spoiler alert. I think that's going to reflect in our in our twenty three points that I feel like this is one of the first kwan episodes. Wear it feels like both characters have moments where they're in the right and in the wrong and it's a very more nuanced portrayal that even we've seen in something like house of the rising sun or entrance and union. Kim always put in great work. But I feel like this is a standout episode for Daniel Day Kim. And not just because he looks stunning when he's shirtless in bed. But even Kim talks about this India in location feature at on the DVD for this episode. That this is one of the hardest episodes. He's ever had as an actor because there's just so many sides of Jin of this episode and some are not so great but I really want to just blanket statement here at the top that I think he does a really really great job here. You know he has A. He has a lot of fertile ground that he obviously pull plants out of over the course of this series but this might be an old timer for me as an episode for Jin. He's really he's just. The acting is really terrific in this episode so but he's also a major jerk in this episode so we'll have to talk that because it starts here it seems like they're about to have like a very romantic evening and gene just like sucks the air out of the rooms so you take temperature everything good are you all set just like oh this is romantic. This is great. This is supposed to be a nice evening They've been trying to have a kid for about year and Jin thinks maybe they need to go to a doctor because it's not happening and it gets it spirals into this huge fight with sun blaming it on gin and the job and Jim Buick. Don't blame it on me and the jobs like you show up at home with blood on your hands. And he said we should've stayed behind the scene like the audience did in translation. You would have seen that. I don't feel good about it. Seems like more and more sort of started with this scene right that we just talked about that. It seems like more more Jin's idea of like no. I'm going to keep son in the dark about what I'm doing for her father because I want to protect her. That's slowly eroding. Like Enamel where he's basically said at this point like. Hey you know what I have blood on my hands because of your father basically telling her like. Hey Your Dad's making me do not so good things and Jin obviously getting coming at this from a very re- Abe Romantic angle here by basically saying hey the reason why I wanna baby is that your father might put me in a protected position so therefore I won't do as many things not here. I WANNA baby because I want to move onto this next step of our relationship with you like this is the thing. I'd want him four more than anything. It's like hey I'm looking for a job change. So don't have to beat up. As many people take their dogs so a baby would probably help. Maybe he'll just make me stay at home. Dad will this fits with the guy that's GonNa let himself rather than go home and raise the kid right. We'll also think if he really just think this happened he would not. He does not know Mr pay because I feel like one wants. Mr Paik has like a tried and true heir male air. He's GONNA kill off pay like She is just out of the picture not needed. He basically brought Jin despite his class position in life because he was begging scraping and he could use the extra body he is definitely going to like you know. Jay Lee turns out to be a boy or whatever they decide to name the boy like into his community and say yeah. We don't need any more. I'm going to raise this kit to be my next assassin or is this assassin then like a successor at the company even Like I think that there's there's a lot of potential there I think that's a that's a fascinating look at what could have been. I think again like I think a lot of untapped potential in the storyline. Unfortunately the I will also say a really cool sort of recurring Motif from cinematography perspective is the first shot as I mentioned his son looking in the mirror at herself. I don't know if you noticed this Josh. There's a lot of shots this episode of Son's reflection whether it's like her in the window at the hotel her looking at herself in the reflection before getting in the elevator Julie affiliated with the flashback scenes. I think it's just a cool to matic idea of like Sun. Taking a good look herself as a person because Damon talks about this in the in the in location feature at that keeps almost feels like in season to Jenin. Son Swap expected positions from where they started season one like he says specifically that you know. Jin Sunshine name started as the abusive husband slash docile wife and he says that flip by the end of the second season and so if the point of this episode is honestly for us to see son in a different light. Maybe we initially thought when we saw her in season one bringing up this idea of a mirror and having her charlie try to look at herself and the ramifications of her actions. It's a really interesting warp on the character that I have not initially seen over the course of season two until Damon brings it up here. Yeah man so much happening lost what show Mike. What what do you think about this idea? And we'll obviously get into it when it's revealed not revealed but it'll be revealed in future episode but that Sun you know obviously doesn't realise or think that John is the father of her child. I mean do serve. Are you sort of co-signing? Dame's idea here both flip-flopping the power positions of Jin and sun. And how does that work for them? Both as characters. I think she's ready to tell them the whole truth. They're stuck on this island. What would be the things seem like? They're always getting better between them. And you know things were very bad between them and as far as some new. This was a guy who's going around killing people. I don't begrudge her falling in love with somebody else I don't at all I hold nothing against Sun for what was going on with Jay. She was already planning to escape as drastically as leaving America but those days are gone and she's falling in love with Jin again here and they have no idea when they're going to be able to leave. That is what they call in the business of future problem right like this is like there is no very. That's a very low determined lost. Their is no utility to telling Jin this moment by the way. I don't think this is your child especially if his reaction is. It's a miracle right like if this reaction to it is like. Oh it's a miracle like maybe she was prepared to go all the way and tell them the full truth but it shakes out the way that does so. I don't know I don't know if it's something that like. She takes delight in with any sort of power dynamic by any stretch of the imagination. I just think like there's no good reason to get into this right now right so that. That's the thing that I'm more intrigued because I agree that I think the choice she makes is more emotional than this idea of as Damon is sort of alluding to have like now. She's the one who holds all the cards much we initially thought. Jin Did. It was sort of weird that it was painted that way from a status dynamic. But like you said the whole Kwan story is very interesting. Ebbing and flowing. Obviously we're also sort of counting down the episodes until they get separated for an interminable amount of time so maybe that's just sort of like a bread crumb leading to that unsavory house of okay. We're going to decide to war the dynamic between Sun and Jin though from our perspective I think that is more pragmatic and less power based meanwhile on the island Sundays at the garden. Jin is not thrilled about it. Jim is like classic old school. Jin about it that she's here. She got kidnapped here. She is not scared very scared. She loves the garden. He hates the garden. He says ripping all the bushes apart and of these garden. People are screaming in agony. No what the Golden. I just shivering in the corner like Oh God if it was me you beat me down like he did. When I saw his father in law's watch but he went solve the plants that goes back. Now what a Dick move. Yeah he might as well have like salt of the earth. While Cuba's adding value dump on it like yeah would fertilize blowing. It's crazy we're back in the garden here and clearly the reason why. Jin is so agro here is because this is where son was kidnapped and he's very concerned that like she would put herself from his perspective like out in the open again. I feel bad for some that. Nobody is like announcing their appearance. Now like she's clearly very jumpy when people are crashing through the brush like gin did because that's how she got kidnapped. Nobody her the the service of being like. Hey just see you know. It's me GIN. Don't be scared I'm coming. Don't worry it's not me a kidnapper. Yeah maybe there should be some sort of announcement system it will. I mean speaking of the next scene. I think we figured out who would be the best person at out city you know. Just give like give the hi. Ho I think is your as. You're coming through All right so that all goes down and that really sets us up for sun engine to be at odds throughout the episode especially as son is starting to not feel rate Meanwhile at the beach analysts in full sprint running like the devils chasing her as. Yeah so Josh. Obviously you and I have based a bit in survivor as well. I never get this. With like island-based survival shows as to why they feel the need to exercise at a certain point whether it be coach or analysts sprinting. Yes you do now have a big bastion of food. But I feel like you are wasting so many calories. That could be used elsewhere. Why do we need to drop into a dead sprint to get back home? Detroit staying fit. You're staying fit. It seems like she's exercising. I'm not Mike but I am meant to understand that running on the beach to Great Way to cure a hangover. So maybe she's had Tequila and tonic the night before that she has to run off. Ooh maybe this was some unseen like canoed along with Sawyer Two for the road if she's able to get stuff from the liquor cart even the whole thing that she's running in her jeans like what is she supposed to run in. She's GonNa borrow shorts from somebody. She Killed Shannon. No one wants to talk to you. Make you make cutoffs Josh. You'RE GONNA you're gonNA destroy your jeans just to have running shorts. They're still going to be denim. I mean listen. You're on the islands like the the the climate I feel like it's not necessarily fully gene worthy like when it rain. What if there's hold night Mike and now your jeans or in your shivering in the dark. I mean that being said now she's GonNa be sweating in jeans the entire day. Yeah the whole thing. It's it's tough though. She's got new friends although maybe she's about to make a friend because she runs back from the beach and she's going through a tent and a creepy old man is waiting for her and lineup banana. And let's listen in on this banana etiquette from John. Locke running like devils Jason. Yeah maybe he is good for you keeping in shape but you want lock. What do I want in your over a week? You've never said toured knife sitting outside my ten. We've got a man locked up down on the hatch. There's a possibility he's one of them the others who's we need and Jack Keeping Watch right now. How long have you been down there? Three days I'd like you to talk with them. You have experienced with the others. You're a cop seems to me. You're the most qualified to figure out if this man is telling the truth does Jack No. You're coming to me with this. We got a serious problem and Lucia. All of us. I'm taking the necessary steps to solve it. I don't need Jack's permission to talk with you. Because right now there's a man sitting in a room in my hands and I want him out doubt I want. I want to play like information web here. 'cause I'm still trying to figure out like who knows that an a cop because I am told saieed and I believe he told Jack Right. That's why Jack approached about it. Do we assume that Jack told lock did lock out on his own. How does lock no that analysts? A yeah it could be. I mean he and jacker spending a lot of time together. Maybe there's some idle Chitchat as they're just like sitting around in the hatchet. So what Santa Lucia? Well she's a cop is ooh. Oh Great. I'll be right back to get a banana. Just one second just need Jackie. Don't ever the COPS? Are there any cops because I love? Why do you need talk to a cop? Does no reason raise listen? I used to work on a pot farm. I'm just naturally afraid of nork. So you know keeping an eye out. Yeah Look John Locks. Boy I love Terry Quinn. I loved this character. A big piece of why I love this character. Because he failed so often because he is a victim of his own weaknesses his own frailties even though he is always like he's kind of like circling the drain of the right thing. It's very hard for him. To needle to thread that. Needle to needle the thread would be. I don't know if that's easier harder this. It's good that he gets Anna here because Anna is going to be able to basically put the wheels in motion to get the truth from Ben Right but the but the why he's doing it is truly because he has this Jack Complex right now. Yeah he has this purpose complex right now where he was all about destiny and he's been stuck in the hatch and he's been doing the thing and the hatch and now this guy that he cannot assess the truth on properly is down here with him and starting to toy with him emotionally in the starting to needle all two this is that that are making themselves more palpable and apparent in John. Locke and he's just had it to here and it's it's bad it's bad business for. John Locke the way that he comes to answer. I don't need checks permission. These are bad looks for my guy especially because and I guess we'll find this out later on the scene when log actually brings it up to Jack like Jack Bristles a little bit but of all the people to bring up to Jack up like. Let's bring them in. I feel like an Lucy is top of that list right. Considering that locks gonNA bring up later like yeah you want to an army against the others. We might have another here. I feel like if you just told Jack Ahead Time Jack be like. Yeah okay okay. Why don't you go talk to her like bursting? We've been able to agree on very long time exactly and I think that maybe this is also a bit of despite lock sort of having this weird relationship with Echo. Maybe a bit of him going tit for tat with Jack Bringing Echo Win without his permission at a certain point but yeah this feels like unnecessary choice but to your point I think attracts completely with his character at that point which let's remember Henry Gale's words are still reverberating in his head of you know. Do you want to be the hemingway or the Dostoevsky? And he's trying to create his own shadow. It yeah yeah so you know. He's making a making a mountain out of molehill here for for. John Locke meanwhile son is is not feeling gracious. Little lightheaded. And I don't know if it's like a physical symptom or if it's just the stress of being so close to rose and Bernard who are having a domestic dispute Their bickering about something and it comes to light. That it's Rick Bernard has forgotten roses birthday. I mean to be fair. A rose did not show Bernard the very nicely painted calendar. That's on display at eight one five camps that has everyone's birthday on it that Hurley made from the manifest Yeah it's still bad that's your wife. You should know her. I don't know what day of the week it is. I don't know if a week is seven days or nine days at this point on the island so they were gone from each other for more than a month a month and a half almost right and I think a month and a half and like he had to know hope roses alive. I hope she's OK. It was almost her birthday. It's gotta be her birthday coming up soon so like one of the first orders of business when you get back. If you're Bernard would be if you don't already know you have already been keeping track is like pulling the room. Does anybody know what day it is what day it is because my wife's birthday should have either just past or it's coming up really soon and I got to do something about that? This is husband one one stuff. This is not hard. Well I think also the fact that he's a little indignant here when you know he feels like roses bossing her around to help them with Sun like clearly. He was caught in a mood here. I do think it's an interesting choice from a character perspective to have the ones to sort of council son in this moment. Be The other married. Couple kind of wish. This was territory. We explored more in the episode. Because now that you know boone and Shannon have both bit the dust. This is the only other group with pre existing relationships that are on the island. I guess besides Nikki and Paulo. I suppose FA- garrels between those two couples but I guess we'll sort of put a pin in the rose and Bernard until we get into SOS about a month or so from now. Yeah but it's it's good because I think the ways in which this episode has Bernard and rose a relationship that could stand a few arguments like this and still be in love afterwards. I think I think is nice to give you some hope for what's going to happen but sun in Jin eventually even if it's looking pretty bad right now in the past son is meeting up a clandestine meeting with another man. It's the return of Jay Lee. Jae Lee ran away to American. It didn't work out so well he came back. I do wonder Serpentine is obviously because we were depicting last time when found. Jin Son Meeting Now. This is obviously them being hot and heavy in their relationship. Yes J. Lease Tryst with Sarah or cassidy or whatever American woman. We think it is ended up ending not so well. So he's back and he's teaching son how to speak England. Yes just as the origin story. The flashback of how did sun learn to speak English and it's because of Jay Lee and her thirst for iced tea. I would like an iced tea. Please bury good English fantastic. I know that's the first thing that any American wants to hear when someone from a foreign country gets off the plane. Yeah I think it's good. I think it's good requesting an Arnold Palmer be nuts level but ice teas. Yeah I think do you think j Li like started the lessons with like American beverages and like these Americans love their beverages? If you start by asking them about a drink you'll worm their way into their hearts and they won't even believe you're from Korea. Yeah maybe I duNno I I really. I know you've called J like the evil guy like but like he seems like the nicest guy I think. Jay Lee is. I think is on the list for me of like one of the true guys here on lost I mean sort of he is also sort of having his own sort of alterior motives here right. We're like sons like maybe we should stop you know and it's clear that you know he excuses it by being like well. You have to learn more but it's clear that he definitely harboring something force said. He's coming back around finally to the feelings that she had for him back in that. Other flashback of so it's not like he's outweighs without his own motives. He's not acting completely selflessly here but I do agree. Especially in comparison to the way. Gin is treating her in this flashback. Jails definitely at the good guy I think he's a good guy he's a good guy he's like you tell. Jin He'd be so proud of you and she broke. But what if you find out how I'm learning I also wonder if J. Lease and maybe this may project dailies like go? Tell Jin she'll be so proud of and he may divorce so that I can get with you. I don't think so I get the sense that this is like it's like they had a good friendship. They were clearly like getting along in Jay's mind like they were decent friends right and then he was in love with somebody and it worked out a different way and then it didn't work out for him when he moved away and he came back and son was married and she came to him with this idea of. I need to learn English. I need to run away is okay. I totally hang out with you again son. You're great you're Super Fun. He has no idea why she's not telling. Jin about the English lessons. And so he's going to bring that up naturally here and I think in the process of this. He's starting to see what maybe he didn't have in his heart at the time that they first met. Now he's starting to fall in love. These kinds of things happen Mike. I don't know that it's any sort of nefarious plot. I think he just like he's he's fallen he's gone for Miss Quon. I mean that's fine but I guess I think what sort of complicates this from. My perspective is the fact that from what we know. Jin still does love. You know I feel like had this been set up as our textbook like she's buried to a guy but he's an absolute. You're like the plot to like your typical mid-2000s Renee Zellweger or were you know reese witherspoon film than I would understand it. But the fact of the matter is that Jin's son are still in love with one another that the fact that he is sort of trying to elbow his way into that territory and granted. He can't help the way he feels. I agree with you. It's still feels weird to me because this is still elbowing in on a couple of that. We not only no but also know that they have very complex but still very deep feelings for one another. Yeah well. That's that's life right like you go through hardships. You come out the other side stronger hopefully and you end up splattered on a car. Fired car or sunk to the bottom of the ocean submarine lay. I've lived there was a fun cut of the series finale where it was. Jin Sun approaching the church. Jay Lee tried to worm his way in their. Let Him and all right. So they're going to keep talking. They're going to keep beating because he's like we could stop. The arrangement was like no no no. He's like cool because this is a good practice for me too. It's totally about practice. All right back at the hatch. Jack is taking a shower and something amazing happens. Let's listen Jack. Can wait till I was done in here. Steam OPENS UP MY PORES. Quinton for Gillette Mach five from Boars Pours is I that killed me watching that back then. Also lame opens up my pores going say reporters so creepy of lock. Right like I don't I don't care what it is. I don't care if you're brushing your teeth before after you get in the shower like I just can't imagine even my own wife standing in the shell it standing in the bathroom doing her own business while I'm in the shower. Maybe that's just a personal breach and that's my own thing but it feels strange especially when you don't know the other person's there I don't I don't mind like I could certainly be a share. The bathroom with my spouse without without an issue as long as everyone is aware of each other exactly as long as you're not going to be the Brian walked out and being like Oh thank. You use the steam from that. We're standing in the shower over there to shave. Please knock on the door. Announce yourself don't just swing the door open. So that I have a heart attack and like slip and fall in the shower. Please announce yourself. I don't like Miss. Hearing you coming in. And then I turned off the water and I here. Hello Josh Saving. It's good for my pores. It's just terrifying as terrifying. But it's classic John Locke Like he is a bit of a creep and here. He is trying to like Alphabrain Jack into submission and doing the most awkward way. Because like he's here he's saying we need new blood. We've got the Henry Bob Problem. I WANNA bring to the mix you. You're the one who wanted to start an army with her. So I figured you'd be on board. There's like all right I'll talk to like. Oh don't worry about that. She's talking with him right now. This is already happening much. Like we talk about drafts. These past episodes how there's always seems to be like a scene that gives us a sneak peek into next week. Is this scene a sneak peek of how John Locke is going to be super creepy with Anthony Cooper next week in lockdown that he's still has these predilections? No but I do think that obviously this this is this is this is cool because like lock is like acting like. He's the one in control again when he's really not. He asked very much currently under Henry. Gale's thumb is very very much at the mercy of Benjamin Linus and next week's episode. We'll we'll have his his desperation next week. We'll have his legs under the thumb of Benjamin Law. Yes he's gotta be. He's GonNa be wearing that Cologne that Stinky Cologne in a very big way. So I think that that's the setup is the way that lock is acting here like he is the guy in charge. But he's very much not as cool stuff coca cola stuff. Meanwhile I ever encounter between Ana Lucia and Benjamin Linus. Let's listen in review on the plane to the tail section. We crashed on the other side of the island. You walked across all the way here have been fun. It had its moments seeking to tell me Your Story Henry Bother. I've already told everyone Jack. Lock the Big Black Guy that cut off his beard and trying to me. Oh Yeah and my Buddy Sayyed. You can see how much you like my story. So how about you try me? I don't mean to be ungrateful. Why are you going to help me get out of here on the other side of the island? There was this guy with us. I was one hundred percent convinced that he wasn't on the plane so I dug a hole and I threw a minute what happened. I was wrong and now he's dead. Good News for you Henry. I don't make the same mistake twice. So how about you? Tell me Your Story Josh. Michael Emerson underrated as been line as comic character. We talked about last time with the how. `Bout you let me go but I I get so much of a laugh. This what about like John. Jack locked the big black guy. You cut off his beard in front of me because you can imagine from his perspective. How strange that scene was last week. Yeah I mean he knows that. That's misdirect oh no got to be really cool. This is Mr Echo heard about. This guy seems all right but imagine your quote Unquote Henry Gale. This normal guy from Minnesota. It's like get right black. Say I tell you something I killed two of your men by the way. I'm cutting off my beard. Goodbye just like a strange direction. He's playing the part well. He's played the part really well. But I think Anna's doing a great job you're too. I loved the way that she is. More is the one who gets more of the credit for being the interrogator but the way he interrogates. It's like he knows you're telling the truth. Because he's like truly forced you try you it just waiting for you to admit what he already knows and is going to save when she comes out of the hatch and a little bit that she's like. I truly don't know so. She's not the human lie detector but from that perspective and makes her interrogation technique. That much more intriguing because you get to see her sort of put the pieces together in the moment. Yeah so it's good. It's really good. It's really good. Look for and this is of strongest stuff in a long time. Maybe a strongest stuff yet. I would say really really strong episode On the Beach Sawyer is reading. Are you there God? It's me Margaret bringing that as like beach running or or whoever was traveling from Australia to L. A. Clearly had that in their bad like it is not exactly a a rag for lack of a better term. That is akin to something. He would read on a breezy vacation. Do you get it at Hudson News though. Is it just like an so? But it's a fun little piece of irony because the person approaching sawyer is not going to be experiencing what Margaret Experience in the book for quite some time. Did her yeah. So it's it's going to be a conversation with Sun and Sawyer. Books predictable not nearly enough. Sex is what he says really. It's about it's about a teenager Sawyer. Please don't allude to that. Yeah it's pretty gross. Pretty gross son wants to look through the medical supplies. May I look through them? No you may not. But he's intrigued and he says if you tell me what you're looking for it's yours. Grad is no no no Muss? No fuss no questions further but I do got to know what it is. This son says I need a pregnancy test. And it's a very cuts a commercial. So what do you think is injured? Kim's tone behind this deliberate like is it. Embarrassed is it confident. Is it sad? What what is son emoting in that moment when she asks Sawyer for the test I feel like the direction on the scene was like all right so this is an act break. This is a big piece of the rest of the episode. You need to deliver this as if you're hearing Dun Dun Dun underneath your wirtz because that's how it's delivered it's just delivered like this is the most like suspenseful thing of all time so. I know I don't know what's underneath the performance. It reads very strange to me. I need a pregnancy test. Feels like a line delivery for like attention building on well. That's the thing I I feel like you know we have said before that. Maybe the Jin stuff is a bit soapy. This probably feels like the soapy Est. It's been so far to the point where there is like a pregnancy storyline. And we don't know who's baby it is. Yeah so I duNNo. I Dunno if it's if if they're supposed to be like I'm sure that there is like I'm sure that there is like a feeling of like okay. This needs to be embarrassed to say this disorder. She doesn't want to say too loud. She doesn't want other people to know if only if only she knew that she's talking to the man who also arranged her kidnapping. I who book at WHO. She's pouring her soul to like her biggest secret so I I don't know exactly what it is. It doesn't read any way other than just like a little bit. Hokey TV. This is this is like a big network. Tv Moment for me. Yeah just does not play terribly. Well back in the hatch and bender still talking. She has so many questions. Why if you've been here for all this time. Why would you have no beard? I was shaving. I needed something to be normal. So all there's up my pores. I only go to the bathroom when I know that the doctor is going to be showering clears my pores. So she wants the match. Show me the map to the balloon. I WANNA to go to the balloon. Few if you went back to the balloon to bury your wife like you said you did. I'm sure that you know how to get back there. So the map to the balloon. I'll find it and if you don't do it and these people are definitely going to kill you. It's pretty clear that everything that you're hearing is actually going to happen. If you can't prove that you're not gonNa step yet and this is I feel like as we talked about. The past. Couple episodes the way that people respond to Henry. Gale is a great reflection of who they are as a person where much echo last episode is quick to interrupt Benz nonsense right like Ben starts going on and on and it's like shut up. This is what I'm going to tell you like the they're they're going to really take things out on you even more so or what? You're predicting what will happen. If you give me the map I guess offscreen. We'd heard a lot of questions. Josh About Ben. Drawing a map I was a little surprised by this but I guess it makes sense from sites perspective that he wants to really prove or disprove his story. But you know Ben really trying to play things up here between the you know. Shaving is the only normal thing I had in my life and you know I had to go bury my wife by the balloon because it was the closest thing we had to a home again. He he's trying to really tug at those heartstrings. Ever GonNa get to a quote layer that talks about you know martyrs and profits. Benz really playing himself as the martyr. Here of like the doesn't matter what I do. I'm dead already. I'm dying because you people needed someone to take out your anger on it granted. He's it's going to be completely factually accurate. But he's definitely trying to play into that emotional space also on a makeup note. I don't know about you josh. But when we see Ben Injured for this portion of the season he has these two cuts on his lips. That are obviously from his lips. Being split by Saieed. I always imagine that those kind of looked like lip rings like a certain angle. I'm imagining like hot topic. Ben Linus with to Lip Rings. Yes with that one time. He traveled off island in work to summer. At a Clair's tattoo shop or whatever. Yeah exactly like maybe. Maybe he was the one in Thailand that gave Jackson to. Oh my God. That's incredible. That's incredible you know I feel like Thomas Clair's Baby Daddy. Kind of looks like Ben. Linus like young younger Ben. Line is could it be that that is one of Ben? Lionesses off island. Children and Thomas is the son of Ben Linus which means that. Aaron is Ben. Linus. The secret grandson. Ooh So then he wouldn't have to invest it all his time in Alex Right. Who hasn't even biologically his. He has a grandson. He just had hasn't realized it. Yeah so that could be interesting right. And then like that makes Jack and Ben or sort of related or at least they've got a relative in common. You have to operate on me. Jack. We're family split you. It's very com- complicated. But your nephews my grandson. What I have a nephew. I don't have any sister. I may or may not have been the one to give your tattoo if I put on recognized his face. Yeah so I think I think we could now officially canonize. That sense are in the jungle or early is going to run into son. She's got the secret pregnancy test in her hands. And hurls got the Apollo Bar in his why I hope I I mean I did not want a reminder of the tree relic storyline in this episode. But I suppose we got one briefly here with Hurley doing their part to start the the road. Dave Dave's coming up Few weeks from now so so a little bit of a Dave thies. We have to dig in deeper to to Hurley's problem hoarding food. He offers to split the chocolate bar. She's not interested. I like you accept the chocolate bar. You're on a deserted island and there's a secret chocolate bar and someone says hey. Do you WANNA have the secret chocolate bar B. I think you just say yes. I also wonder physically what sons during this but obviously she's not puking her guts out like some other pregnant women including my own wife when she was pregnant with my son but it also might be like. She's super anxious as well because she has the pregnancy test. I agree that I think pragmatically you would never refuse a morsel of food on the island but at the same time I think the last thing she wants to do is eat at this point. Yeah maybe but it's chocolate. Maybe she's not into chuck ladder like maybe. Australians are to peanut butter what Koreans are chocolate. I don't know about that. Who doesn't like chocolate? Everyone loves chocolate. That's why we're never inviting Kiva winding on our podcast. Only anti-church chocolate personally. No no I. I do know a few anti chocolate people. I have one friend of mine. Growing up loved candy in a very big way but hated chocolate so only like airheads and stuff like that but like loved that stuff and thought that chocolate was the grossest thing in the world and look. I've been known to eat an airhead or two. Although it's been a long time to probably been like ten years since I've had an airhead like airheads over chocolate is crazy. I agree completely agree. I think traveled available in so many more varieties not to besmirch the various flavors of airhead including the ubiquitous mystery flavor. Feel like chocolate is the way to go over airheads any day of the week. Yeah I for me look at me. I'm not one to Besmirch the the fruit snack. The fruit snack has its place. The fruit snack like a fruit snack and a chocolate snack combined when movie theaters where we were able to do that. Remember Movie Theaters Mike. That's a that's a real but if it's just got to be one or the other. This is like the John John. You can only choose one. I'll take chocolate over airheads. So are you saying Hurley walked out of the jungle and says he son pays you? I shook it up so it's like a little pillow. Yeah Oh yeah you could do that right. I don't think I ever did that. I know people who did. Yeah I'M GONNA get an airhead between now and the next. Yeah I. It's it's a fun thing to do. It's a wrist workouts. You feel bad about the calories that you're taking in and it's a fun little testing like Centrifugal Force as well in science so definitely encourage everybody next. Get An airhead. Your hands shake up one end. Just keep shaking chicken. You'll see the airheads slowly sort of culminate into one pillow surface. At the end of it you can just bite into a couple of bites instead of having to ruin your teeth and spread it across a few bites and that's the whole tooth the whole tooth exactly. I was about to say man. We've gone really far off topic but actually we're right on the money. This is going to help us remember. The whole tooth was also the episode where Hurley offered on Candy. There's stuff like I feel like we're covering up with a lot of I think at the end of this. The whole truth might be the episode. Boss we remember the best. Yeah because it's the one. We came apparently non sequiturs are it so he pieces out and Sun's GonNa look at the pregnancy test that she got from from Sawyer. And it's a win bore labs pregnancy test. There you go a little bit of a tease is on the way. Yeah they'll not trust in Charles win more than my pregnancy task any. I would not want him to have any of my genetic information. I don't feel like that's a good idea. Who knows what he is doing with any of that. Oh Yeah I think definitely. If here was realistically he'd Be Behind Twenty three and me right yeah I think so. I don't know I don't trust Chucky as far as I can throw them all right in. The flashback bad news Jin Center at the doctor the doctor reveals. There's some scar tissue blocking sunset lopion tubes even with surgery. The odds of conceiving are impossible and Jin is rip. Shit he's furious. I think you must've known about this. How dare you son and said? Oh yeah no I did. I was just trying to lure you in trap. The son of a fisherman which is a great idea for a Lindelof by the way the son of a fish like that man you can wash blood office hands the son of man he was. Ooh Yeah I mean so. Jet Jin is obviously very emotionally distraught. Here like almost mainly when doctor the doctor mentions the endometriosis you could see. Jin Take his hand off son's like he has stopped caressing her. He stopped being supportive of her because he immediately snaps and turns on her. He throws the files and anger. I will also say knowing. In retrospect how Dr Kim Not Daniel Day. Kim Hyun Jin Kim but Dr came in this episode knowing that he is lying about all this pretty good performance like this doctor went to medical school not acting school but he's doing a pretty good job of putting up a ruse in front of the very very angry man. Yeah I mean I guess it's a good acting job at the doctor but like this is this is really bad thing to do. Yeah I mean absolutely and I think even he would admit that is that like this. Is he put so much stake in having a child whether it was from an emotional perspective or from a an employment base perspective that him not you know when he finds out it's not possible he lashes out and I think unfortunately he's lashing out to the one person that he's doing all of this four. It's an absolutely terrible. Look I can understand from the character's perspective but it does not excuse his actions whatsoever. Yeah yeah I agree I but every time I see that I'm like no like you said before. This is really like especially like the first two thirds of this episode is really season one Jin enough. We've been talking about S- characters like Sawyer in Charlie arguably going back to their own season one forums this is more of a a retroactive movement to me and it's probably because it takes place in the past all right. Let's go back to the hats. Let's listen in real quick. Actually as Jack and Locker GonNa see what Anna has to say about everything. That's going on within retail okay. So she's kind of out of the hatch. She's coming out again. Shit she has. She has an announcement method down. Unlike everybody else it's also a fun. Little comparison note to the first time that we coined this phrase on the podcast when she's coming out of the whole like in both cases she was doing undercover investigatory work. So maybe that's her own little CODA fi signal of the investigations there for over. I'm coming out of COP ANNA mode. Yeah so she's she's coming out. She's coming she's coming back she's talking saying like. Oh let's give the guy more time told me the same thing you told all of you give them another day. I WanNa talk to him tomorrow. Jack Songs that's okay with you and Jackie is like annoyed by this. Whole thing is like Anna. I would've told you eventually but I didn't tell anybody like I haven't told anyone and it's like it's cool. I enjoyed that a little interaction between the two of them there. Yeah well especially because we really haven't seen anything come of this after the long car you know now that we're done with the army story line which still feels like a bit of a dead end. It's nice to eventually glance upon these relationships especially because we are sort of looking at the ticking clock when it comes to Lucy before two for the road. So we're going to take any sort of brief says these various relationships as much as we can get so she's going to leave. Everyone's like all right so she'll talk to them tomorrow and then we're going to get the scene that we heard at the top of the podcast. Anna's come into Charlie. And but charlie gets roped into it because he knows the deal. Yeah so this is interesting and maybe this goes back to my own little gripes but the ending of one of them. I still don't know how I feel about like I can understand. Why of all the people out there saieed and and be the most fine with like yes. Charlie's been doing some bad things. But we've done bad things as well. Let's let him in on our plans. But there's something about him like doing projects around camp to everyone's I'm assuming agreement or at least like being fine with it that rings hollow to me considering doesn't end today. I mean this guy kidnapped like took a baby. They in Bryn broad night light a few weeks ago like I release if I was there. I'd give him a little bit of positive. Frosty Rodney Sesto was there. And he's like. Oh the baby kidnappers now just working on a dining room table in front of everybody and it's still pretty much ingratiated back into the camp. I would give that a little bit of pause personally. Yeah I think if they're letting the shannon killer walk around through camp then I think the baby napper is allowed to stick around to especially when it's Charlie and everybody knows him in that and I got to imagine it enough. People are like band poor. Charlie like at this point that got the talk of the town like recovering heroin addicts. This is not good. Don't remember driveshaft as play. Maybe last episode Erin was crying was so annoying. Maybe Charlie had the right brutal brutal brutal Jim Charlie. At this point it just felt weird to especially just given how low charlie sank in episodes twelve and thirteen to have them sort of like part of these bt missions only a few episodes out the facts feels a little bit too quick of a bounce back to me. But maybe that's just my larger issue with the plotting of Charlie's character this season. Well I think saieed and Charlie. This mutual grief in in common right of Charlie was kidnapped by Ethan and strung up for dead and Saieed Lost Shannon S. He's GonNa explain to me and not because Anna killed her but because the others scared us into killing each other so I think that like aside just like had like sort of like his explosive experience with with the man currently known as Henry Gale in the hatch and like that was likes if not quite cathartic than at least like he really got something out and the person that he is confiding in after that as Charlie then it makes sense that these two are going to be like a little bit tight together and who has been as as the MVP points reflect has sort of been like the shadow leader of this group in a lead by example. Kind of way. Maybe there is this idea of like hanging out with Charlie will help ingratiate him to the rest of the group if I can help rehabilitate Charlie's rich by just showing like this guy was punched me in the face publicly and I'm still hanging out with him. Yeah exactly there's an interesting moment here when analysts as you mentioned the Clip Jack and Locke or too busy worrying about locking Jackie line. It's such a good line and it's such a thing as well. Listen these guys are just going to keep barking back and forth with one another and not do anything. That's why it took matters into my own hands. But you see Charlie smile there in a brief reaction shot. It's very clear that like any burn against John. Locke he's going to love and I do love that. It's a bit of a runner that like anything that has people either shit talking or trying to make. John Locke Fool Charlie as he's in he's in So you would think that Charlie and Anna are going to be like pretty tight after that but instead like it gets a little awkward. They go on the walk. They reached this cliff. That's part of the map Any commentary on the map that Henry drew by the seems like something like a parent would come up for their eight year. Old Backyard Adventure. This is where the treasurer in the like. What did he say like start? Your Mountain Hill Balloon. The I look good on good on these people for actually being able to find the damn balloon given those extremely vague instructions Ben. Drew purposely made them vague. I'm not sure how much actually wanted to send them there. Because obviously you know he. He might have a little inkling of an assumption that they would dig up the real Henry Gale and completely disprove his store. I think knows that it's a risk but I think he also must figure like I gotta give them something. I have to show them the balloon and then if I show them the balloon then I can infiltrate them further. They will be like all right. He who he says he is and then like hell start like showing signs of medical distress and then being like Jack. My back on. There's something wrong with my back which I don't know if you could just like look at my back something like that. You roll the dice type of move. How crazy are these people to find out? If I'm one of them is saieed really going to and he doesn't know that Saieed is going. And maybe he assesses as savvy enough to go digging underneath the balloon for the body also like maybe he shouldn't have said that's where he buried the body. If there was a body to be found there maybe he should just say like I threw her body gave her a viking funeral. I ate her. I'm sorry her it's part is. My Momma was the only thing that could bring me closer to home with eating my wife. Eight her wear her close to close. Eater hungry it was literally trace for each eighth Antonio all my teeth really hurt offer food stuck in my teeth. Dentist it's the whole to. I've learned their side. He hits his so he said that. And then should've told them about the balloon. Oh there is the balloon so aiders though side of her story tax. I don't know what's going to happen. It's going to kill somebody. Go ahead. Itome proved to be that you could do it again. It's Ben he would do it probably well. I suppose if I got any milk. Yeah he might have a hard time like we boil some of this letter like I take your clothes but I think he would. You'd be game to game to do it. Applause shorts shorts even have to kill. Anybody takes this right now but but you be cold and that you're getting no twitter about or Mr Echo shirts falling off can we maybe echoes little beard hairs. Tibet. I know you lead and then needs some. He's like Schistosoma you might be telling the truth all right. I guess lots of let them go get toughest thing anyway. So that's clearly what he should get caught. What's going on? She noticed that the point that we said this podcast one way off. The rails was about thirty minutes where we suggested that bench should have said I so. They reached the cliff. They found the cliff. All right we're on the right track and goes. Hey least it means answer on the right island inside doesn't laugh choices humorous not his strong suit. And I'm saying this to you and he keeps walking in Anna's checking them out. Check them out and choices. Are you looking at a bum? She's looking at your gun Because he's got a gun tucked into his shorts so we assume that this was. What was this part of? Charlie's deal with Sawyer was that he could sort of abscond with one gun from the stash. I think it probably isn't so much part of a deal so much as like maybe Charlie has some element of like clout with Sawyer. Goes up two stories like Hey. I'm I'm off to do a thing I got. I need a gun. You're not gonNA WANNA it's like a real significant hike through the track you're not gonNA WANNA go like yeah. I definitely don't I've done a lot of recent at your pregnant pregnancy. I want to really hang onto this story going off into the jungle. Yeah he's giving him to get his sons pregnant. It's like. Yeah Oh God. Don't you feel so much worse about what we did? So Charlie has the gun in an Asus. Give it to somebody who knows how to use it. It's like Oh hey well remember how you used to kill our French Shannon sites like that's enough. I don't WanNa talk about that. Also also Charlie did not have also have the track record when it comes to getting it. Doesn't he it give it to sites? I. It's absolutely the right person to give it to Charlie. Does it is so petty. He holds it out to Ed and then does a fake and it back to but also like holding it very daintily by the West yes and like keeping his eyes on Anna the whole time as you. I cold begun to her. She reaches for it and then he passes it over to Saieed. Yes spoiler Freddie. Charlie's not going to get an LVN here but he was very close in my opinion for being such a petty bed set. Interestingly I would've considered giving him an MVP point this week. I think he's like Patty Betty. Yeah I think it's a good Charlie rebound episode. Actually I think that there's no I'm not gonNA give them one but I can see the argument forgiving Charleena. Mvp this week. Because I think he's he's really funny. He's he's brought on this mission. He gives the gun to good side has a gun so I think I think Charlie's doing well this interesting because Charlie's acting like a petty betty and a petty leading the of God so fast so furious that I almost missed the reference. All right so son has confided in. Kate connects expect to WHO and found right when she confides in her about the wedding ring and the bottle sudden cater tight. So she's gone. She's going to go to kate. Kate can keep secret and so they're going to take the pregnancy test and who five the pregnancy test anyway? Where did your final? It's like stop pregnancy test. Shame anybody don't judge people. Some people are riding with a pregnancy test. That people are writing. Are you there? God? It's me Margaret People. Let's not question the baggage. Some people have fireworks exactly. Some people have a lot of creepy dolls. Some people have a briefcase built entirely with boomerangs. Apparently and some people have a marshal that they have to travel with. Okay Kate. We all have our baggage. Who knows if somebody didn't check in a bag filled with pregnancy tests or they could be smuggling them. Maybe win. More factory is based in Australia. They're smuggling you just get a good discount there in Australia duty-free so she's taking the test she's pregnant. The test is confirming it but the the way to be one hundred percent sure is to consult the doctor. So we're GONNA talk to the doctor. Doctor visit good scene with Jackson and Kate. Let's listen. Tests are pretty accurate near false negative in the first week. Maybe but positive is positive. It's impossible on our possible. Joan queasy lightheaded please check. This is private. Nobody can no? You're not going to tell Jin in time. I will just keeps complicated complicated. Jen being the last one on the island to find out you spoke English son my advice and it's just that because I'm the last person ask about this but he should tell them and when you do you should tell them everything. The whole tree back to the hatch -gratulations. He said he said the line. You did the whole truth. That's another way that we can remember what happens in this episode. Jack says the line all truth. It'd be very complicated if he said in a different episode. Yeah so the whole truth. It's so exciting. Mazal Tov to to sign and even Jack Cater able to have some semblance of peace. Even though Kate then tries to like segue the conversation away from everything like so. What's up in the hatch? Is Everything okay? At least Jack is able to talk to her like a quasi human rights right. Yeah sure everything's fine there exactly at my son's a bit of a buffer there as well. I think Jack. Choice of phraseology is interesting. We know that son speaks English. I don't know if jay LE- toddler to speak Hebrew Mazal Tov means. Yeah does he actually say Mazal Tov? I don't maybe I don't know that he's maybe maybe it's a bit of a Mandela Fan. I think I think it's just that I have in my notes. Mazal Tov and so I I said Mazal Tov. Maybe now say like. Can You Match Jack? Sheppard saying Mazal Tov. Just doesn't seem like a live and it's GonNa come from Jack Sheppard All right so there's a flash back and son is she's very pensive and she's thinking back on everything and Julius why are you? Why are you so nervous? What's wrong what's going on and it's because she's going to run away. Learning English to run away We were going to have a kid Jinnai but we can't and we thought maybe that would save everything but it won't so I'm Outta here. Peace and out and Jay's don't run away from your life it's not. It's not the not the thing to do. You can't just run away but I'm also not saying stay for Jin. I'm saying you should start an affair so there's an interesting statement at the beginning. This scene when son says like basic like. I'm glad I can't have a child. Is it just because that she realized that like if the baby would be the only reason I jin engine would stay together that that's not a reason to do it? It was like a surprisingly bitter sentiment coming from this character but considering the position that she's in and especially like the temperament which which she takes to the airport at the end of house and the rising sun. I feel like that makes a lot of sense. Yeah I think like also like the level of the quality of the fight that she had and like the like the really disgusting behavior from Gin in the Office of how he reacts. In that moment. I think combine that with the fact that she's already both fearful of him and also like I don't know who you are anymore him with the blood on his hands and everything. I think it's like I'm glad that I can't have Jin's kit. And this is like a sign to me that like. I just need to like my instincts of learning English. So I could leave. Were correct and I do not just like reclaim control over my life and Jay is basically being like. Oh yes. Sure re-claim control for your life a hundred percent me. Yeah and I think it's fine. I mean I think it's it's great. Is that ideal? No but in this moment son is clearly not in love with Jin Anymore. And she's clearly falling for this guy and this guy has gone for her too. Yeah I think that you know maybe in a perfect world. He'd be like great. Let's run away to America together. Like I know how to navigate that country but I guess if he is the son of this hotel magnate seemed like he was welcome back into the family with open arms after his trust. He doesn't want to necessarily ruined that he's saying like you don't have to blow up your life to change it like you don't have to like run away. That's not something that you have to do. Running away as such a drastic. Move up like what you're talking about doing is like completely absconding severing all ties with your life and your family and vanishing into thin air. You don't have to do that to change your circumstances. What he's advocate but I would also say guy. I'm not the expert on Korean culture but I do feel like you know getting divorced especially when you were the daughter of this big magnet would kind of up your life in a manner of speaking so I feel like even the process of leaving. Jin was still have significant consequences. So it's almost like shoud be making big reverberation no matter what it's rather. It's rather hurt. Keat like mentality of like. Let me run away from the possible situation. I'm facing right now. J. Liaise is sort of bristling against though again might be a bit of selfish reasons because he happens to be there from a writing perspective. It's also very interesting to sort of mirror. This scene to the first of the episode considering that this scene is vastly vastly in English with a couple of exceptions whereas the first scene is in completely in Korean. And it says that even though center speaking the same language in the first scene. They're not really communicating with one another and ironically enough as son learns a new language. She learns to be incommunicado with this guy more so than her own husband. I kind of think that if If Sun and Jin break up and then sun and Jae Lee become a thing that everyone's going to be like. Oh that's awesome great. Everyone's GonNa love that era. It'd be really into it. And if they're not a j Lee is like all right. Well then peace out. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA Markle Harry. Away at this thing was going to say so is it. Sorta like a is it like a is gin the Jennifer Aniston. See the Jennifer. Aniston here where she's GonNa get with like a big big powerful movie star and everyone's like oh I love this couple and yes they might be scandalised by what happened to Jin for like a hot second. But then they're pretty much going to disregard him and focus entirely on Sunday and daily. Yeah I think that's possible. Also I do want to say that I just second guessed myself like it's Meghan markle not making merckel. I briefly thought about the universe. -Tarian Merck Laura thing my God talk about world peace EU. So I`ll. I'll remember this episode war for for that that Jay and son or like the Prince Harry and ongoing merckel Sideways Universe back on the island or their site and Anna. Charlier going are going to set up shop for the night in and is going to settle in next aside for a little bit of a fireside chat. Let's hear about it mine. Your body can. I can't see people don't like me. I've tried to get them to most of my life. I just gave up a while back. I mean I am what I am. You got a good reason. Hate me sorry. Sorry for what I did. Transportation people wasn't to kill Shannon. Who Stem wants we find out? He is one of them will have to be done like forcing him to eat. By shirt plan punishment. It was such a big Popeye Fan. I love this clearing the air between side Anna. The great seen really really good and again. It's sort of like we're noticing. Small interaction with Annalisa because her time is very limited on. This is very meaningful. Like we're talking about these waiting. Interactions between her finding him to him finding her to go out until the jungle looking. Rousseau's looking for you so I think there's these two are seeing eye to eye when it comes to their respective trauma when it comes to the others granted again. The the weirdly complicated aspect comes from the fact that the history but the others from one character's perspective comes from the fact that the other characters shot the love of his life thinking she wasn't other but he has talked about in our collision episode. He understands what it's like to do something absolutely regret and the the mental and emotional strife that comes from that damn saieed look so menacing when he says that something is going to need to be done about band when he's found out and it's just it's scary and this is Sii just when he's convictions are about him. That part of Sai that's stated he was a torturer back in one of them comes out and we see a glimpse of it here in the middle of the jungle. Yeah I think it's great because like I think this is all of this stuff is like it's it's more important in in the long haul for Saieed as a character that like this is showing him his potential as a human his his capacity for forgiveness for empty still his drive for vengeance. He's still very but how he's able to redirect that anger. I just think it's it's complicated stuff for him so I really like it here. What's also highly enjoyable? And this is something that I do. Remember very well about the site. Anna Charlie scenes together is that I remember every time that they have seen together where they hash things out in swiftly followed by like a morning after where we're like been awake all night. Just stare at Anna Apparent. I mean his. His advice was finally taken by. She does all asleep eventually. But it's just been sitting there like damn rock the entire night. Maybe he's like. Is this weird should I? It's a little weird. Yeah when you fall in love with your previous lover complicates this weird. Is this weird stretch. Could we make a ROM com this? It'd be a very dark ROM com Dr John. I will say really interesting introspection from an as well right because she much collision this one. The only people that she is coming clean with coming clean about how she feels about herself only previously was her breaking down to echo and the riverbank and the other forty eight days. And I mean her saying you know. People don't like her little. Meta I think I don't know if the writers purposely did that I don't know what they felt if they sense the reception behind analysts at that point but I think it's a bit reflective as to what both the eight one five and the audience was feeling about analyst Cortes at that point and lost sure yeah. I think that that's right. Starts Rain and as it's raining they find the clearing but the camp find the balloon balloons supposed to be here. We'll map is bullshit so don't be too you know lessons bad map So this is where the blue should be. I'm going to go back. I'm GONNA feed him. My Shirt Says No. We tracked all the way out here. We can't go back until we search a little bit more so sites as well. Search as thoroughly as you please yes. I is using a Christian hickeys breath. I search method. Let's divide up the clearing and hunt for. Yes yes yes. The next thing we see is a montage of just the island mapped out in all of its gradients. Back at the beach Jin who has been kind of alone this whole episode. We haven't really even talked much about. Jin is by the end of the beach and he is going to see Bernard doing some wacky stuff. He and Bruguera going to kind of have a conversation. And it's GONNA lead to Jin overhearing a conversation kind of sort of goal coach. Oh no no no no. It's not for fish. Wasters boisture Pearl for rose She Got Nundy Nor'easter always done here. I person why would there be? Oh Daddy O go. Papa saw as much time give you a Cigar Bernie. When I'm fresh out sounds pregnant down as suzy. I don't think jen senior year node yet. So there's no my mom all is to shoot wildlife yes it's the return of the Lynch ea and backwards talk is say. We just briefly crossed back over into twin peaks. Sometimes my arms bend back. But it's it's a really great effect and it really gets you in. Jin's you know head of like I care about these people. These are people who who like. I know through accents in through a lot of different ways of communicating but there is a very specific way in which I can't communicate with them as effectively as I want to and the only person I can do that with is son and a very lonely feeling. I guess maybe he was making that progress with Michael a little bit. Considering the bond they were able to make but he's gone a loss. Pedia actually has the dialogue between Sawyer Bernard on the beach that was played backwards. So roughly along the lines of it all sort of distinguish between accents for the characters. Well how do you know? Oh I got my source lawrence. You're gonNA tell him that I'm a place. You should tell him or hell. No let sunshine tell him so. Get as much as we talk about. Being a bit of a cad this episode including in this scene. Healy's has the decency to be like. I'm not going to tell Jin directly. Let his own wife. Wow and Bernard Bernard spoil the surprise. Get involved maybe. That's Bernard speaking from his own perspective. You know obviously too complicated medical history with rose as well but he'd probably be like if I was in that situation. I would want somebody to tell me no matter. What like the two differing perspectives. There but yeah I feel like I don't know maybe I'm talking to my buddy here. This might be the last time we hear the backwards talking fact for. Gen. 'cause he's GonNa Learn English pretty quickly and these texts couple of seasons. Okay another way that I will remember. The whole truth is that this was the episode. Where when we podcast at about it. Mike was talking out of his but I was as venturing it the entire time with the entire time the entire time from the from the jump only God okay. I'm never gonNA forget this one this one I'll remember forever All right so this a gene is going go to Sun. She's back garden and he's he's GonNa Apologize. He hates the way that he is. He hates fighting with her he hates. I can't talk to anyone. He doesn't understand anybody. I need you son and son is ready to bring Jin into this now. She tells him she's pregnant. They have a huge hug. It's very very very sweet. But there's an asterisk Mike. Oh and an asterisk at that. I've been talking on my Asterik. Yeah I mean this is. It's tough because again. Jin has been looked like such a d. bag on and off island this entire episode but like I don't know maybe from my perspective but I think it's really tough given day Kim's performance like not to really like Gin in this scene like soda. He's he admits like you could read his speech to son as like well. I'm only doing this because I need you to help translate things for me but I feel like it's a larger speech about how he feels. He needs her in his life. And not just from a pragmatic perspective of like you are my conduit. Not only to the island but to the world I realized how much I need you in my life in so many ways and so I realized that I'm fixing a mistake here and he's replanting sons garden. He serves as her assistant in the next On Ireland episode between the two of them. So it's clear that he has again even if he does take a bit of a dabble into first season Jin. He has moved on as a character in that he knows that when he significantly airs he needs to make right on it and so instead of sort of bristling and being on his own stubbornly. So he's going to do right and replant sons garden. I'm not sure if that's how plants work. I don't know if her courted was absolutely torn apart no matter what it's like toy story once they both left. The plants hopped back in there like. Oh my God that was so traumatic. We got up birthday party. It's own throws his birthday already. Get to work. Bernard can't find a Pearl we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA have to find the Pearl. Maybe there's something yeah by the way very I think very dim Bernard to assume that. Oysters are slight proliferate on the island at this point that you could definitely catch one but I mean I think the moment were Jin picks up son is like very genuinely sweet and that also shows as well as much as he may be giving the reasoning in these. I scenes like well. We should have a kid so that I'll be putting a safer position. It's very clear that the stakes having a child for him or emotional first and foremost because at this point he has four sworn Paik like he gave away the watch. This is that the point where he said. I wanted to move back to. La Like abscond away with Sun and do away with this job so when he is so excited about the good news that she's pregnant in so many ways this is purely coming from the fact that like the woman that I love is now pregnant with this child. This is amazing news dot oboe. I wonder what this means for my employment right right right right but we do get the news. It's the final flashback of the episode. Where son is Paul? Popo SAY POPO seining Bobo though. Good question so many bows out. There son is walking with the doctor. Shows up in the doctors will get in the car and he he liked tracked. Her took her outside. How about that? Yeah our this episode as the second episode of season two of lost which son was nearly kidnapped because the doctors showing up at the car get is no but your name. It's you at son in the only knows her name on your backpack. He tells he tells her look. I've done something terrible. You're not the one who can't have children. It's Jen. How much time do you think has passed between that appointment and this announcement like did the doctor sit on this information for a few days ripped him up rip them up ripped him up for a while and so he. He had to take his time before he could come to sun where he could shore up the nerve but the nerve has been shored up. Son Is GonNa talk to Gin and give him the spiel instances. So that's the deal. He can't have kids and it's like wait. A minute was that means like well. I'll swear to you this. I've never been with another man. That's the detector determined that is alive so the other reason that I'll remember what happens in the whole truth is much like the whole milk. This is like the half and half right like she. She gives them the and half truths or even like a two percent. This is like the skim truce like I'm pregnant. No this all. But the other ninety eight percent of the fact is I don't know if you're this is true. This isn't even milk. Hail throwing this fact that may or may not have to deal with the current situation that they're an interesting points. Josh when the only points I feel like where this stuff we find out in the flashback. It's assumingly what son told. Jin as well you know it was Sunday like. Hey here's what happened. So I was walking the doctors get in the car. It's like not getting car right exactly so like it's one of these things where it's not the character. Just doting on their time. It's actually being told but Jin as you said jumps aboard this idea that it's a miracle and you know. I think that seat is going to Germany. Much more later on when we find out. It's true and you know once we find out most we think back to lock. We'll find out more about rose. I think we'll come more to this idea of like. Oh Yeah I guess kids facility. Infertility could be cured but I mean at the time are definitely thought it was really his baby. Yeah Yeah I mean. We didn't know the episode ended like kind of like provocatively between Jalen son. So you didn't know if things were going to go in any direction you get to the glass bowery season three and it's a big part of why. I definitely remember that episode. Is 'cause get that second? Flashback is just son waking up with G Leeann Reich. I guess they burned. Guess they did it all right. So she's she's telling him the skim truth the soy truth And they're going to talk about how. What would they name their kid? King Daddy. John Seems like a really good tribute to Jin's father a very pertinent. That sounds like let's from my mother's because she is done mentioning. Mr Paik skipped over as well as the doctor said that he specifically chose to lie. Jin because he knows that she works for Mr Paik. And we'll be afraid that Jin was told he wasn't fertile he would take that information to Mr Pai. Who would take it out on him? Yeah it's it's it's not good. It's not good. The Paik Association Truly Poisons They WanNa tell people but they figure most people already know Jack and Kate knows Sawyer probably knows like Daddy O which I love. I love the way says that Daddy. Oh very very good. Bernard knows theories as we get anybody else to tell. Jin wants to go for a lunch break with sun but she wants to chill. She wants to garden and Chill. She wants twenty minutes. Solo. And let's go and and when when he does she says I love you and in a really really really super sweet. Seen Jen kneels down next to her and in English. Says I love you and God. If that doesn't just get your right in the fields. Oh No it really made good because again. It doubles down on. Despite the fact that Jin was pretty terrible in a lot the stuff in this episode like he feels he wants to feel for sudden do things for son at the end of the day even if he feels like. He's doing things for her protecting that. Turns OUT NOT TO BE IN RIPS the plants out of the crowds? The fact that not only did that did it through learning English and really showed like I'm working on my communication as well in both languages to hopefully make sure that you're not being unburdened by being my translator the entire time. Even if I need you right now I just think it's such a genuinely sweet moment that turns thickening for son is well when she realizes like God. This is so sweet and also. I don't know if this is your child. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah I don't know what's going on in any of that do know is that something. Spectacular is happening at the hatch. We've reached the end of the whole truth. The thing that you totally remember one of the great great scenes in lost history. Let's just listen to it. Let's go in. How is it? Men reject the prophets and slay them? They love their martyrs and honor those whom they have slain. So what's the difference between a martyr and a profit? It sounds like you end up Ted Spirit. Movers and breakfast computer for nothing cereal. Wow where'd you guys get cereal down here all along pantry full of food I will lose? It has no much all kinds of questions about all this stuff. Guys don't even seem that curious sue. Don't you must be my reward for good. Behavior earned myself some goodwill. Finally on that Math Rhianna to my did you know you guys have some real trust. Ishers extension tell you the fighting all the time of course if I was one of them these people it. You seem to think of your enemies what I do to me. No land so drawn out to a real secluded place cave or some underbrush trout. Ambush on your friends got there a bunch of my people. It'd be waiting then. They'd use them to trade for me. I guess it's a good thing. I'm not one of You guys got any milk. Classic Classic Stone Classic someone called Classic. I mean like what we're about to get into next is very clearly a lot of the stuff that we got into in the feedback this week. A first of all without Sarah's writing in and saying so do they have any milk could be do. I mean I would say not but they also have this like this ranch at. They're fine keeping out extreme temperatures. So maybe they haven't built like we're genetically modified powdered milk. Milk yes he. Space guys got any space. That would really be giving away his hair right because they know he knew that they had space exactly but John. Krause asks us. I vote this episode ending as the greatest non cliffhanger ending of the entire show. What say you and Mike? Two that I will add. I am currently lightly toying with. It's the ten year anniversary of the series finale of lost on. May Twenty third twenty twenty which is crazy. Maybe I should talk off line about. Should we do something about that I am thinking of putting together a list of either ranking every lost episode ending which would be a different ranking than ranking lost episodes or at least coming up with a list of some of the best endings of the whole show. The whole truth would definitely land on that list and would rank very high on the list. If you're counting the entire show my hot take would be this the way that I feel about Tricia Tanaka is dead but that is sort of the episode that I have chosen as the ambassador of joy for lost to be a top five episode of lost. And that's like the one that will allow myself to be a controversial top five pick. I think maybe that would be the whole truth. Is like the Tricia Tanaka of lost endings. This is just the best. This is just the best. It's the best it's Henry it's funny. It's creepy reads very differently when you don't know what the deal is with Henry Gale. It reads so differently when you know. That's Ben Linus. This is so scary coming from him. It's the best. It's the best the slam to the to the ball like constructed so well I mean I think this is the ending that has the most to it. That's not twisty. I would still personally say that. Walkabout is my favorite ending or something like dais X. Which I would not call a cliffhanger necessarily because we don't immediately follow up on that those are the ones that have me more emotionally swell than this but this is still. I would put like top three at least like definitely on that Mount Rushmore. Because like you said it's such a delicately fantastic performance by Michael Emerson. I think the rumor is that obviously the character of Henry Gale was contracted to only appear in three episodes but after watching this scene in particular they said okay. We're going to need to keep this guy in for the long haul. And that's what led to Benjamin Linus becoming a larger part of loss and it makes sense because it's just so good it's so freaking good it's so taunting the you guys don't know much you know saying like wow. I can't believe that I. I finally got the balloon information. It telling you guys and of course the entire tease of hey if I was leader of the others I definitely have those three people killed by sticking them onto the balloon. But Hey maybe I'm not one of them. The power he holds in. This scene is a great culmination of light. We talked about the ending of last episode. Just him and what he represents really being the center of attention and he knows that and so he is going to really have the main playing out of the palm of his hand and you can see it with like the reactions of two. I guess it's a good thing. I'm not one of them. Yes Jack is scowling. Despite the fact that Jack is standing over him Ben has the status lock is giving him this. Murk of like God damn at. Wow look at this guy. Look what he's been able to do. It's a really interesting steam from Jack and locks perspective to react but it begins and ends the scene with Michael Emerson as Henry Gale and by God. Good even from the even from the get-go of that clip when Ben reads the excerpt from Dostoevsky and says what's the difference between a profit. Either way sounds like you end up dead really fun. In retrospect to considering what happens to Jack what happens to bed and how they serve as martyrs and how they serve as prophets and yes. I mean Jack will be the one who ends up literally dead on the islands but I feel like both are going to end up in that afterlife at the end of it all so I think it's. It's a great harbinger. It's a great lake thing to look at both. In retrospect and in the moment as well such an amazing ending such an awesome awesome awesome ending. And I'm not saying it's like the number one ending of lost but I'm saying like as I'm cobbling this list together. I can imagine the world where my wake defiant position is. This is number five this town baby. Oh Yeah I would say that this is this. Is something where it's like I. That's like off the conflict shooting from the hip takes. I'm not married to that take but it feels that great. That's like that's the that's the healing that this is associated with. It's not enough to boost this episode and it's like a next level episode or anything like that. So maybe that says something but he is such a such a fun way to close it out and I would also argue like I think there are cliff-hanger elements to it though right especially if you don't know like even if you thought Ben was another like Oh my God. Maybe that was his plan. Maybe an Lucia charlier and a lot of dangerous. So I still think there's mystery element to it as well. Which again makes it a really great any too. Because you wanna see what happens next. Even if the Benson other is that stated idea gonNA come to fruition or are they just going to eat them. Yeah the shirts of course. All right so we will. We will get into. We have actually feedback on that very topic which we'll get into the second but first let's thank our friends. Our sponsors for this episode support for today's episode comes from Progressive. 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Constructed is the ending is both provocative And so scary but also very funny but it leaves you going into the next episode being like. Oh God what what is about to happen is Charlie and Anna and in the next episode. They're gonNA find the balloon and then we won't see them again until the comeback was what they now know and and I think that what what is masterful about that. Is you go from feeling like this is probably secretly? Devil this guy to then through most of lockdown feeling like. I think that he might be telling the truth. I think he might be a John Locke ally and then you get to the end of the episode and it's now refutable so that's really really brilliant constructed as well. Yeah I think that this between this and the end of locked down getting the most up in the air. We are about Henry Gale audience as to whether or not he is telling the truth but again when you look at it. In retrospect this shirty with which Michael Emerson talk like off the cuff about. It should have been an indicator of like. Yeah if even if he was like this mining guy from Minnesota. He has way too many nefarious plans in his idea. Not just come up with this off the cup so maybe we should have thought that the Suri with which he spoke about the plan so nonchalantly to just screw with jacket lot would indicate that yeah. He's an he's like pretty far up. They're considering the stuff he's just able to come up with. On the fly from Eric Davis Stein Benz Monologue. At the end of this episode is so good night. Conic but locking. Jack shouldn't be buying. How could Henry possibly coordinate with the others to plan an ambush specific time and place when he's been locked up with no ability to communicate with them? So what do you think Mike? Should the ambush even be taken seriously at this point? I mean I feel like the they know that the others are capable of coordination. I mean look at the stuff that they've been able to do like look at how they coordinate that pretty well exactly surprised no wonder they're wearing rags if their leader just hasn't ability to eat all their shirts all the time. I think that they they know about the boat assumingly from Sawyer. Jin and Michael. I would not be surprised if their imaginations ran wild of like. Hey maybe there's an opera. Maybe there's some sort of being able to watch us and know exactly what we're doing and might be able to monitor. So I do not begrudge them in the lease for buying into this story because the at this point the others are such an enigma. To the point where. The fake beards have not been Become public knowledge right now where they could be capable of anything including playing this ambush even if one of their own is locked up seemingly in an area where they would have no contact with him. Stepan John's the greats Divine Johnson writes and. Do you think the Juliet or somebody else from the others at the Pearl Station. Speaking of pearls watching the cameras in the Swan and if things get too far out of line they can radio in an extraction team. What do you think about that? You think that this whole period of time of Ben's captivity is being monitored so that like if things start going too far off the rails they can maybe do something about it. I feel like it's monitored but more so for the people being watch than for Ben like I could imagine the type of person to say no matter. What like it's the young Frankenstein ride. No matter how much I screamed no matter how much I protest do not win their Anne hathaway. I could see that I think the other thing is like the others have the capacity to storm the gates. Potentially they've got the manpower for it. They've got the resources for it but they also must know that that needs to be pushed that that if it's not things are catastrophic that it is dangerous and to go in guns blazing would be potentially very foolhardy thing to do so. I think the extraction plan in why they send Michael in to do it with like giving Michael like a real reason to turn against his his friends is because he can bloodlessly infiltrate the hatch. Maybe not exfiltrated but he can get in there without having this bill any blood and I can also imagine that like I think if they need to storm the gates it would also be the others giving away their hand of like okay. We're not you know. The derelict. People that you think which. We started the episode at season. Two right when Tom rips off the beer. But it's only because they know that he's essentially a sham. This is still dies that Ben wants them to keep up an assuming once they break in with all the you know the the supplies that they have they really show their head. As to like yeah. We're not necessarily at the jungle savages. You think we are yeah. Daniel Brennan has some thoughts about Jin in this episode. Daniel writes Jin's apology. Towards the end of the episode. It's bad it seemed prompted by his inability to understand Sawyer and Bernard by the water rather than appreciation for how much he's hurt son since the beginning of their relationship after he told Sun that he needed her. He explained that without her. He cannot communicate with anyone else. There's a practical reason. Jin Son and his life all living on the island. It's not the reasoning. I would've offered him if you were trying to make things right with his wife. So why is GIN so bad in apologizing? And why does not have any problems with his reasoning? Well first off James. Bad apologizing because he has not been taught to apologize yet which he'll learn and TRICIA TANAKA is dead. That's one. I was wrong but I don't know I talked about this before. I'M GONNA disagree with Daniel a bit because I feel like gin sort of statements here. It's a bit of a microcosm of not like I just need you. Because you are my google translate son. It's more a representation for him of I realized how much I need you in my daily life like how much I lean on you for so many things not just the language barrier but also so so many things. It's made me realise being apart from you how much I needed you. Let's also remember that like yes. They've come together a bit but we really haven't had a lot of Kwon Kwon tent since they came back together and I feel like this is a good sort of reminder as to what they learned about each other from Ooh and found the time that they spend apart. Jim Fells. The Jim Fells has a troubling thought for us. Charlie has a gun says Jim. The terrifying conclusion here is that Charlie likely took the gun from the stash before he told Sawyer where to find it. So what was he planning to do so I let me just give a shout out to the shadow here is. Jim Actually gave us a shout out in his video this week Josh. Hey how about that? And it was specifically for the coming out seeing from this week coming out. So thank you for the shout video in in a little bit. But yeah I mean so I guess because you said that you thought you know sawyer sort of offer it to them at to skim off the top of presupposing that Charlie stole it from Sawyer. Yeah that's terrifying. Like I guess I could buy that. I could by that. I mean if if if he's still fears that errands life is endangered than I can imagine him. I would hope you'd imagine for those of purposes but the other side of me. Is it going to pull an animal Lucia here in like shoot? It's something that he thinks might be hurting air and it turns out to be. I don't know like Hurley or early bird even but I do think if Charlie was going to go along with the long con and not get anything out of the deal other than humiliating lock. I think like bad strategy. I don't know about the gun. Take the CANNOLI. If there's can only these Do something do something all right. Speaking of Jim Fells aside the down the hatch shoutout which of course we appreciate. What else have we learned about the music the whole truth? So there's a second island thing gets brought in it's called mapquest. I think that's fun because that's and it was officially called map. Quest Two thousand six which I think is fun I don't know if you noticed this but when Jin tears up guard in the first act of this episode the same music plays as son gets kidnapped in the long con no really shows like the ramifications of that poor poor garden others a little bit of like a sunlight motif that gets introduced in this episode. There was a genuine. That was introduced. I believe either lassie's earlier this season that is obviously do their relationship more aggressive hers more softer and subdued though again if Damon Lindelof is to be pulled. It seems like she is the one that is becoming a bit more. Agra with what she's doing and there's going to be like a little bit of a Jin Sun marriage marriage marriage that plays throughout like we're going to hear when Janet Tells Young Danielle Rousseau that he lost his wife is going to be playing when Jin gives the wedding ring to lock in displaces death to say like. Tell son that you buried me. So those are a little marriage recurring throughout so it's not just like a gentle motif and a son Motif. It's like a specifically representing the bond that they have together. Some Fun Lost Shenanigans. Going on right now a make the most out of Corentin. Is Amy Rach on on Youtube to decide incredible video? That's a side by side of her recreating the Desmond opening a season. Two of the whole desmond routine. We're GONNA linked to that in the show notes if you haven't watched that yet it's Super Super Fund. Really really worth watching. It'll put a smile on your face. This put a smile on my face Mike. This was from. Jd underscored challenger on twitter wrote tonight. Just talk about down the hatch with someone on tinder. Maybe guess it brings a whole new meaning to getting lost in the conversation for the record. This means told a stranger that I listened to a two and a half to three our podcast about a sixteen year old show every week and he is still interested in me so look at us. This is great. This is great just happen. This is awesome. I am so happy no matter where things go like. I'm just so happy that people put up with the idea of someone telling them about a two point on average lost Josh Harkness on twitter if people who don't listen to the survivor coverage in the HP universe and just listen to the show recap side of things and maybe even only listened to down the hatch might not know that Mike Bloom in an effort to help sister Nino's efforts to raise money for PP e for the ongoing endemic. Mike offer to get a tattoo. If the if the Fund's reached a certain amount they will surely reach the amount Mike. You're certainly getting a tattoo. You mentioned survivor tattoos. But Josh nominates two tattoos that are up the lost propriety. It's who you came with an who you leave in wit on your wrists would you would you? Would you consider deejay? Don is one of the tattoos that you're considering for your body. Oh that is so much fun. I really really love that though. I feel like because they lost tattoo. It would be disqualified from the current contest but man I would absolutely love and because there's not a lot of pair tattoos that really work. I guess you could do like live together die alone but he came with and who you leave with. It's so specific to down the hatch. Certainly make me remember that particular episode without a million assize like we did in this. Podcasts ARE. We'll have it this you get through the survivor Tattoo. Let us know how that goes. I know there's a lot of ideas percolating right now and maybe even. I'm simultaneously podcasting with you and strolling on twitter as this recording. It's entirely possible that these things are happening at in and I got. I just looked at my notification own. Mistakes needs to be real. You can't just have only tattoos that you like in competition to be tattooed on your body. There has to be some danger here. You're a podcast or you know that's true you know it's similar you know it in your heart that it's true but get through that get through this whole situation get through the survivor tattoo. And then maybe you and I can. We can come up with an idea for loss related. That's also charitable. Let's call that what's once again. Stick a fork in that and call that a future problem. I think we'll we'll deal with that down the line and who knows maybe we'll have Matthew Fox design. It tells us he could tell the story to where K from. I'll let me Fox has any connections to Mac. You're ever going to the foxhole in like you know. Ask the other foxes that they can speak with Matthew. We could make that work right. Mvp VP's Mike you've got three MVP's VP's and I've got to MVP's and three VP's to dish out. And Are we both coming out for Ana Lucia with her first points? Yeah this is going to be double points for Ana Lucia Look. This is arguably one of her best episodes as a character. She has her own humanizing moment where she talked about wanting people to like her but realizing that's just who she is she's able to get the information out abandoned when nobody else could very wisely goes over. Jack and locks head considering how much squabbling with one another to go. Find this balloon and get some action done. This is a fantastic episode for Anna. Lucia and quote Hurley. Do she could use the points. Yeah absolutely so I actually think that analysts has actually been doing okay In our coming into this episode she had three point so she was not in the negative like some of these other characters but still she is not nearly as well like some other. Taylor's I think maybe something it certainly surprises me and may surprise. The the hatchlings is as it stands in the season twelve MVP L. VP. Rankings ECHO IS IN FRONT WITH TWELVE. Saieed IS BEHIND WITH EIGHT. So it's still a comfortable lead for Mister Echo but in third place it's Annalisa analysts has points. Yeah after this you'll have five. It's absolutely it's like. She's passed Kate. She's passed. I mean she's you Jack and Jack and locks she pushes past a lot of the main characters but I she was a big part of the first third of this season as we mentioned and she has her her her moments here as well and I think we've been trying to walk into season. Two we talked about this during our XS. Podcast briefly to sort of like. I look at Lucia from a different is that I think a lot of people look at her in the grand history of loss of being this bad character and season ruined and I think it's reflected in our point total so I I am not surprised by considering what our thesis statement was for season. Two coming in. Yeah that'd be coming out That being said is soon to die so a very likely point headed her way into for the road coming up. I should note that the writers of this episode of the whole Truth Elizabeth Sarnoff Christina. M Kim are also the writers of two for the road So as they're really taking an active role in the shaping of the Lucia and game so shout out to them for that so we are giving. Mvp People to Anna. Who Do you got for your next one? GotTa give it to Ben. Three three here in Henry. Gale episodes and again. It's that frigging Michael Emerson performance. Giving an all time monologue all-time ending lost and just being able to toy with them. So well this is what he wants them to do. Yes he may not have realized that Saieed is coming along and my bus the whole thing wide open but he has them eating out of the palm of his hands like it is dry cereal and I love it. I'M GONNA give my second Second and final. Mvp point if the week to Sun I think a great performance as always from engine. Kim. I think that she handles the the whole stress of the situation really really well. I empathize with her greatly in her flashback portion of the episode. And even if you don't like it like she's very competent liar. Bring like. That's the whole truth Jen. I promise there's nothing else. If only he'd only fact check with Saieed know if he if he was not inconvenienced could very easily. She cheated on you. Yeah so that's that's my rationale for Sun. And I you know what? Let's let's keep the pairing going here. This might be a bit contentious. I'm going to give wantage in here and I will say about. Eighty percent of it is due the Daniel Day. Kim's performance which again I feel like his character in particular to really bridge the emotional spectrum this episode between the pure fury of him finding out that Sun was unable to get pregnant versus the unbridled joy that he had when he found out son was pregnant to him very sweetly and very you know very very just soberly saying I love you soberly. Maybe the wrong term just very simply saying I love you like I think Daniel Day Kim puts in a lot of great work this episode and I do personally feel like apologies to Daniel Brennan again for disagreeing but I do feel like Jin's intentions on island. He does come around. He does have her squarely in the shape of his heart. And I think that he realized how much she means to him in this episode. So He's going to dedicate himself fully to her the entire time and realized that maybe that involves not tearing out the plants out of garden. So that's why maybe it's a bit of a gin apologised part of me. But I'M GONNA give Jin appoint this episode as well. Yeah and I'm GonNa take it away as my first move here but the L. VP's because he's Dick in the flashback and he destroys the garden. He cries all these plants. And I'm GonNa take a point away from Sun. What's because she cheats on her husband and might possibly be pregnant with that. Man's child God we have. We have pretty much wok. Kim's plans wash on the Kwan's okay. Well it's a wash on the Kwan's let's see if we can if we can do some damage to other people the whole tooth. The dentist gets a get some attention here. How do you forget your wife's birthday Bernie and also like being like tell him? Tell him now Steve. This is some secret to tell but we should be the lens to tell him. Look for Bernard this week. Getting people looking at bit Dole with. We'll there must be an oyster around. Here let me get one. You have no indication that oysters are anywhere in this facility in the South Pacific. I'M GONNA throw one onto this is a bit of like a secondhand connection but I didn't feel like adding it another like negative one to the list. I'm going to consolidate when I can here so I'm going to give a ghost. Lv point but a real one to Mr Paik who is an extension this episode. But I feel like his influences. Definitely here right. The reason why Jin is Jin Sun that oh I want to have a baby so that Mr Paik will give me a better position. The doctor lies to gin and has an essentially. Take it out on son. Because he believes that Mr Hake will seek retribution. So even though he is not a part of this episode that almost as a representation of the the whole that Mr Paik hold over these flashbacks that even when he's not an episode his influences. Definitely seen and heard yeah. I think that that's fair final. Ldp's John Locke. I think like he's just. He's shooting from the hip here he's gotten Benz under his skin. And it took very minimal effort for Henry to get under lock skin. He's in his head. He's acting in a way. That's like. Just kind of like Macho to be Macho. It's just not good and I. It's it's it's it's kind of like you. I think when we when we look at lock right now he sort of in in free fall here in. The points is currently zeroed out because this negative one in the season to estimate. At least it'd be curious. Actually where he is in the Grand Hall. He's now at two in grandma which lets him below Benjamin Linus yes. Ben Has already overtaken lock and I think that that's one of the reasons why I love the character. He's so he's a rollercoaster up and down. Yeah very up and down with John Locke but I think like we remember season two for being a season. That's like really rough on Charlie. That he's like you know it's not a great look for. Charlie appreciate US much. How how rough of season sees it to is for? John Locke think that's really showing right now. I think that it's partially because knowing the outcome of the hatch. We don't really see the forest for the trees. Sometimes they're like wait. A minute lock was right the entire time so therefore we can look him more fondly in season two when you are totally right and we're going to get into it next week as well. That John Locks approachable. He is correct in the content the intent and the way he approaches things are sometimes not the most thought out surprisingly for the band who prides himself as hunter. All right. Let's do four point two stars with let's rank the whole truth from zero to four point. Two I give the score you score the score and that gives us down the Hatch. Bischel score for the whole truth. I think this this is a very solid episode of loss that I enjoyed about as much as everybody hates. You go what Kate did which it give three point twos too. I feel like it's in league with those episodes like a totally acceptable episode of lost. It does have a next level ending. I don't think it's enough to push it past the scores that I gave Hugo. And so we're just GONNA keep it consistent those three points. You is where I'm GonNa go with the whole truth. Yeah I agree. I think that you know everything here is at least okay. I think that the ending and even like the end Lucius stuff is really really great. The Quan supple. I do love me some Kwan stuff. I think if we're comparing this to other the Quan storyline in general think the pregnancy is for lack of a better term. Really kind of your bump and all this. I still don't know how I feel about like these characters through the way they were behaving in this episode and it also just felt like again as we talked about in the very beginning this podcast a storyline that I feel like could've been placed in any other episode and would have been completely fine like does not feel the whole truth is about Jin and sun and their struggles with pregnancy. It feels like the episode with Henry. Gale quest to look for the balloon so I agree. It's it's been a weird sort of like a coincidence that you know each episode started with a three point eight for house of the rising Sun wint translation got three point six and found got three point four and it just happens that yeah. I'm going to give it a three point two as well so I'm just going down the degrees in style of even numbers and so we'll see if the glass ballerina finishes with a straight three point. Oh we will see season three but josh. I think we're lower on this episode then our listeners who gave this episode a three point five on average three point five on average which is higher than what the audience gave to. Everybody hates Hugo and what Kate did but still the whole truth is clustered with those episodes ultimately the whole truth clocking in at a three point three just above everybody hates you go in what Kate did but just below and just a below. Ooh Ed found I think makes sense because I feel like in Season One. We had like some of the quad episodes paired up as well so. I think it makes sense to continue that trend. Just kind of like work shopping. This a little bit is this episode improved. Dramatically altered if It is more centered on aniseed and Charlie going in pursuit of the balloon and rather than having the Quan flashback. You could still have everything that's going on with the pregnancy. Rather than having that flashback we get experimental again and the experimental quality is were flashing back to what Ben told ANA about his his life on the island was like as Henry and his wife. And so what we're seeing. There is a flash back to something. That's not real. It's like a farce. It's a it's a and the episode ending with what Henry says to John. Jack them kind of like puts the whole thing on. Its head of like wait. Was that just watch any of that true? Was that the whole truth or in here somewhere. Ooh I really like that idea. My only criticism is that I don't know if you WANNA use that flashback structure right after maternity leave like I do like the sense of return to normalcy and convention analogy when it comes to the flash back to the whole truth like if we go hike to KAI concept episodes in a row when it turns out that that might be a bit too much but I would love this fake Henry Gale flashbacks. What do we see about him in? Minnesota? Let's watch him his dead wife. You know I wanNA see every story. Every piece of his wife consume tire such. Oh my God all right. Well we've reached the end of the line year. What a weird PODCAST IS I. This this is probably one of the most fun. Podcast we've recorded for one of the episodes that again like ironically it's GonNa be the most memorable ones one of the most unmemorable episodes of laws already starts out. I'll never forget the whole truth again. All right but next week and unforgettable episodes coming up locked down my God I mean this is obviously. We've talked a lot about the loss internet culture but this was like I think the moment that broke the community wide open. This is the blast door. Map was a moment that will forever be cemented in Internet subculture history which became the very first thing that has lost fans. We could salivate over every single minute. Detail it is a changer. In so many ways the ending we have yet another incredible ending when it turns out that as you mentioned before that yes Henry Gale is a black guy. He's not the man you see in front of you. So it's just a really great episode. Lock flashbacks are pretty good. I remember we can. We can conclude the Helen Saga. I believe as he ardently pursues Anthony Cooper so we're going back to the Johnny lock well for quite some time first time since orientation excited to reapproach the subject all right and also as mentioned the ten year anniversary of the end of the lost series. Finale is may twenty third Mike. Maybe let's talk off. Line is that we could do for something like that. But maybe we can keep an eye out or near out for some bonus down. The hatchery coming. Your way in the not too distant future. We're not just getting to lockdown which dynamite episode. But we're coming up on a very important anniversary so feels like a good time. We have ruined. Yes yes we did. So maybe keeping era out for a double dose of loss down the hatch coming your way very very soon for the lockdown episode. Get your feedback in down the hatch. A post show RECAPS DOT com. You can also tweet at us. I'm at round. Howard Mike. Is Mike Bloom type and at push recaps? Is Our twitter account. Subscribe your ratings and reviews or greatly appreciated. Mike. Good luck to you. Bundy is to you as you and I are recording this on a Wednesday early afternoon by the time people are listening to this. The fruits of your Labor are already available. But you have a long made ahead of you in the live recording of this podcast where the survivor finale is tonight. You'RE GONNA get to interview off the finalists. Parade Dot com slash. Survivor is the shortcut. If I'm remembering right to get all of your to get all of your parade content for the exit interviews. I'm very excited to read them all. Thank you yeah I? I'm very excited as well as it's been. You know a big island-based year so far I'm a survivor and talking about lots. It's GonNa be too busy due to an island for the foreseeable future. But y'all be covering all of that parade dot com slash tag slash survivor survivor. I'm sorry I'm plenty plenty of survivor podcasts. Income from Josh and myself as well. Even as the survivor well runs dry with previous episodes. So we'll have some island talk in even if the islands become less freaky or more freaky depending on where the hell we go in the off season. The we've no idea what's coming up and that's how we like it. Maybe not exactly how we like it but we'll do is. We'll find a way to like exactly. We'll make tattoos about it. You will not be aright. We'll be back next week with more lost action until then everybody take care good bye. Bill seems to fight best.

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Episode 19: Compilation Of Strange

Cryptic Chronicles

1:02:54 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 19: Compilation Of Strange

"Cryptic chronicles. I'm your host Tim Hacker and on today's show. We have a compilation of a bunch of different stuff like the mystical Jin found in mythologies around the world the devils tree famous for its serial killer and terrifying haunting. So that I'm going to talk about a crazy killer. Cannibal family from Medieval Scotland followed by the legendary. Go Stale about the Brown Lady of Raynham Hall. And last we're going to talk about the vile mortices. Everyone's heard of the Bermuda Triangle. But you know it's just one of twelve such novelists locations across the planet you are listening to Cryptic Chronicles. Jenner born of smokeless fire and pretty much hidden from our physical senses. Unless they don't WANNA be. Most people have seen the Disney movie Aladdin and for the most part Jenner pretty much known as Jeannie in the West associated with fairy tales in Hollywood. Nobody really knows. The origins of these supernatural beings at least mythological they have been worshipped by Arab since ancient times. Though the legend of the Jin has branched off and many different forms and all with their own interpretation like a lot of people in modern Islam for example may call them purely militias entities in basically analogous to demons has gone through some youtube videos researching about the GIN and there's a lot of new age spiritual groups who got some interesting ideas on them but they pretty much say that they're holy malevolent claiming them to be the source of shadow people and aliens in her basically in opposition to humanity's best interests there. There's a much bigger picture concerning their history in basically everything about them. It's easy to just set up. Everything is Evil and put it in a little box but that's really rarely the case in pre Islamic Times Zhen were considered to be wondrous supernatural beings capable of free will able to do good evil and basically anything between just like humans. The term was also pretty loose being applied to various supernatural entities throughout Arabic folklore. However Zhen were never considered gods or immortal. They eat sleep breed and die similar to people just with a ridiculously longer lifespan. All scholars agree that their mythology originated in the Near East and Arabian civilizations. Though the direct culture they spawn from is up for debate their earliest accounts state that they were spirits who dwelt in the desert or other unclean places in mostly took on the form of animals. The gym were said to inspire poets and artists and basically just creative types similar to how the muses doing Greek mythology vision also had unique personalities with individual desires just like humans and if they got pissed off they were capable of. Doing some pretty messed up stuff. They could cause mental illness disease in conflict with some going so far as to claim that madness was actually caused by Jin. Possession considered mostly to stick to their own kind superstition of the past dates that they made feared places their home such as desolate dark areas with little human traffic and the old legends. They didn't want to interact with humans in any way. Basically our entire like organic nature was just alien to the Maga's but despite such an enigmatic origin concerning the legend of the Jin they would go on to have a place in the mythology of many mainstream religions throughout history in Islamic theology the Jenner invisible entities that walked the earth long before humans. They're classified as entities indetectable by human sense organs along with angels and other spiritual entities. The angels were made of Light Jin fire. Angels were merely instruments of God's will and therefore lacked free will whereas Gen were created with complete free will to do as they please then live back on earth when it was still young with many Asian nations and tribes in a flourishing pre human civilization or I should say civilizations because Gen were pretty opposed to each other and did not get along mention shows corruption over virtue willingly committing horrendous. Deeds upon one another one day a law sent an army of angels to battle them in an apocalyptic confrontation which basically destroyed their civilizations after the war. Between the supernatural entities Zimmer driven out from the hospital lands of Earth. Two islands the sea and desolate locations. For this reason the gym would basically have a permanent grudge against humanity because they once had dominion over. Earth are pretty pissed though it was given over to us the Jin were defeated and banished but there was one among them that shows righteousness and never followed in his kins sinful ways. The Jin's name was Iblis. Whom was so pure and righteous. He was allowed to walk freely. Among the angels of Heaven then it blitz worshipped Allah with all his heart showing the height of virtue is Jin had always been capable of but when a law made humans out of earth he decided to test the entity allot told all heaven to prostrate themselves before the new creation the angels obviously did so without hesitation because they lack free will but it. Bliss refused even when a law directly commanded him to bow. He defied the Creator. It was never meant for the beings of Heaven to worship humanity. This was just requested by law as a sign of respect kneeling to humans was to acknowledge their special place in creation and relationship with God yet. Ablest thought he was superior to humans thinking. Us weekend lesser creatures. He wondered how something made of Earth could ever be on par with living fire. Jealousy and pride growing within the once righteous djinn. It bliss then asked for eternal life until the end of days and I'll the request for some reason. Even though bliss had justified him the arrogant Ebola's then challenged the creator swearing an oath. In God's might an honor that he shall lead humanity astray then. Allah just merely accepted the challenge telling bliss to tempt humans. All he wants and that all true servants of the Lord of the universe would be immune to the influence of the Jin race. Alah then cursed it blows for all time until the day of judgement and cast him out of heaven forever and hence the Jenner on earth to test the willpower of mortal humans for them to choose good or evil at least in this mythology of them that also in Islamic tradition the Prophet Mohammed was sensible gin and human communities to spread a laws message. He told them they were under a laws judgment just like people and could gain access to Heaven. Hell depending on how they live their lives. Also the Koran's version of Solomon. The ancient King of Israel was granted dominion over the gym by God to use their supernatural powers to build the first temple in the modern Christian Bible. It was demons so the Muslim version of the Jin are pretty distinct yet. Still have a lot in common with other cultures mythologies such as the Zhen being placed peril to humans just beyond our physical plane of existence in ancient times. Zhen were incredibly popular in folklore. Obviously one of the most well known being the Arabian nights in the famous tale of Aladdin who receives a magic lamp which contains the genie that grants him three wishes. Now there's many different cultures with folklore about them or at Lea- supernatural entities similar. Jin suggest the three different types of Jin mentioned in the story of the Cobbler. In many of the tales the protagonist used the Jin travel across vast distances instantaneously allowing ancient writers to fill in potholes with them consistently in the West. They're analogies to fairy folklore. There are also found in some of the oldest recorded civilizations of Mesopotamia Ancient Sumerians believed in positions. You whom was made famous by the movie the Exorcist Zoo being a win gin with the canine face bulging eyes and scaly body. Even the Babylonians had their own versions of GIN in Jewish mythology that should dim mentioned in the podcast episode Monster Legends Three Resemble the Classic Depiction of the Arabian Jin. Similar entities are even found in Buddhism and Hindu traditions as well and of course in the case of Christianity. It's a no-brainer. They'd be classified as demons in Guangxi mythology of the Canary Islands. There's a similar type of entity to so there's really no shortage of gene lower from civilizations all throughout history. Jenkin take on the forms of humans or animals enter capable of dwelling in all conceivable inanimate objects hence the legends of the genie in a bottle. These entities vary greatly in the levels of power and magical abilities as well personalities and no supernatural. They have all the bodily needs analysis to humans with similar desires and weaknesses including mortality. They are however much less dense and aren't chained by physical limitations usually appearing as wisps of smoke or humanoid flames in their natural form Zhen greatly enjoy punishing humans for perceived slights intentional or not and are responsible for many outbreaks of disease and horrendous accidents. The are also said to be responsible for many cases of mental illness being able to easily possess the mind body of the weak willed however even though the Zhen are incredibly powerful they aren't invincible and can even be killed human beings who know the proper magical procedure can exploit them to their own advantages in some cases even enslaving them by binding them to worldly items most of the time being a jar lamp or bottle then be magically compelled to grant three wishes to anyone who said some free and when enslaved to grant wishes many different things can come from such a prospect. It's not just a matter of instantly getting the wishes you want like we're used to in our media. For example depending on the JEN's moral compass making a wish can either be a huge boon fortune or a horrible fate worse than death. Jen can be good neutral or evil dislike humans and if the person making a wish dozen possess the attributes necessary to keep a malevolent gin in line then those wishes could be twisted to the point. They become dangerous if the human making the wish has a weak mind or willpower than Jin could just outright deny the request as well though most of the time evil djinn will attempt to harm their foolish masters or ruin their lives outright however someone freezes sinister Asian they can usually be defeated through wits because of their overwhelming arrogance one simply has to play to their ego and superiority complex with full. Kiro usually tricking evil. Djinn back into their prisons. The next we're going to talk about the devils tree now. The devils trees one of the most haunted locations in Florida. Usa despite relatively recent origin. It's the tale of this curse. Tree only grows more and more famous though and there is allegedly a lot of occurrences of paranormal activity commonly reported in the area. It's located however unlike most urban legends which are mostly myth. The devils tree has a very real dark and disturbing history behind it until this day. Parents tell their children not to go anywhere near it. The true story behind the devils tree began on January eighth nineteen seventy-one with a COP named Gerard. John Schaefer police officers may normally be devoted to serving and protecting the public. But not this cab. Gerard was a psycho killer with the badge. Well actually he. He was actually an ex cop at this point but he still had his old police badge which he used to. His advantage injured was distin creepy. Serial killer with an alleged. Kill COUNT OF AROUND THIRTY PEOPLE. One night while driving drunk came upon to pretty teenage girls hitchhiking through town singing opportunity to enact his twisted desires. He pulled over his car and showed them his badge then told them to get in the vehicle. The girls were tricked into thinking. He was a real cop and obliged him. The serial killer then brought them to what would later be known as the devil's tree drawer documented the whole incident and a notebook saying and I quote. Doing doubles is far more difficult than doing singles but on the other hand also puts one in a position to have twice as much fun. There can be some lively discussions about which of the victims will get killed. I when you have a pair of teenage Bemba Lena's bound hand and foot and ready for a session with a skinning knife. Neither one of the little devils wants to be the one to go first and they don't mind telling you quickly whether best friends should be the one to die and quote. Gerard would later go into detail about how he killed. The girls saying stuff like he told the girls to put on blindfolds and there were nervous but did it anyway. It gets pretty dark. He threw ropes around the branches of the Devil's Tree and tied them around the girls necks. Occasionally he'd lift them into the air choking them then that then back down to enjoy their begging and pleading for their lives. The girls were gagged bound raped and tortured over an extended amount of time jarred basically trying to get as much twisted pleasure as he could from the heinous crime but eventually he did kill. Collect good enough and Barbara and Wilcox hanging both only nineteen years old. He then decapitated the girls but he wasn't done desecrating their bodies just yet over the span of ten days. Gerard return to the tree to have sex with their headless decomposing corpses so the six sociopath was in Necrophiliac on top of being a serial killer. It wasn't coincidence. Gerard brought the girls to that particular tree though he did it for a very direct reason. The ruins of his childhood home were right next to the tree. And at the time you could even still see the foundations of the old house. After he was done killing the girls and having sex with their bodies he loved the ropes and the trees so he could return and remind himself of his two favourite kills about four years later. Nineteen seventy seven. Two men going through the woods stumbled upon a pretty gruesome scene. They found the teenage girls decomposing corpses with the deteriorating rope still swaying in the tree. And it's from this point on that. The urban legend really kicked off for many years. There were reports of hooded figures practicing satanic rituals around the tree in fact so many of these supposed sightings of these hooded figures were reported that even local law enforcement became a nerve. Anyone who got close to the tree were scared away by these people in the woods or went missing without a trace. These accounts are even more frightening. Because there's objective proof of them from legitimately documented cases like in Nineteen eighty-five when a couple were romantically involved in the woods but got freaked out. When they noticed hooded figures staring at them they ran out of the woods half naked and terrified but they did escape in nineteen ninety two. There was a case where two children narrowly escaped being abducted in the woods. The children very likely narrowly avoiding a horrible fate in nineteen ninety-three three a pastor sick of all the devil. Talk put a big wooden cross next to the tree and performed an exorcism but the cross was simply found turned upside not long. After which is a common satanic symbol still. These are just a few examples. Among many encounters with these enigmatic hooded satanists years later authorities and local officials so sick of all the ghost stories in tales of hooded figures in the woods concerning the Devil Street decided to do something about it around the year two thousand. They decided to turn the area into a park. And obviously one of the first to do on the to do list was the chopped down the devil's tree to workers to chainsaws to the tree. And both the chainsaws mysteriously malfunctioned thinking. It might have something to do with the bark. One of the workers hacked off a piece of the tree and took it with them but when the to go in their truck to leave they immediately suffered a fatal accident and both died after their deaths. The curse of the Devil's tree became part of the legend. Anyone who's in possession of a piece of the trees jinxed so people actually started taking pieces of the devils treat a curse others mike leaving a piece in someone's car or House to give them misfortune in two thousand four. A woman took a piece to curse. A friend almost died in a car accident while leaving succumb in saying that. If you take a piece of the Devil's tree whatever you do. Don't drive around with your car. Misfortune will follow the bits of the tree wherever they go then. Also paranormal activities reported often around the tree even till this day horrifying screams can be heard coming from within the parks restrooms win. No one's inside them and the doors open and slam shut randomly from unseen hands. Cold spots are said to be felt throughout the area pretty much the entire park with frightening. Vp's often being recorded and Phantom figures seen pictures taken around the tree but the apparitions of the two murdered teenage girls hanging from the devils tree with ropes around their necks are the most commonly reported ghost sightings although shadow people in different types of otherworldly visages are often reported to the devils trees unique. Because it's such a recent modern tale which also has a lot of real world history behind it stuff that actually happened. Don't worry though the six psycho Gerard Schaefer was brought to justice for his horrifying crimes and was also stabbed at in prison. However it doesn't look like the legend of the tree will die out anytime soon If you like horror movies at all then you're probably familiar with the hills have eyes and the Texas chainsaw massacre or any of the genre really of like Hillbilly people or while people in the woods who eat people but most people don't know that these stories were actually inspired by real life accounts back in the fifteenth century. There was a family of cave dwelling cannibals near the beautiful Costa Benin Scotland at its height. This clan is said to have been around forty eight members strong and was responsible for the murders of a plethora of people unlucky enough to cross their path over the span of twenty five years and their actions have led details so dark and disturbing. They become legendary. The family of cannibals would callously murderer any man woman or child. They came across with no remorse and mercy. It didn't even matter if they're victims were alone or in groups because their numbers were usually too much for any unwary traveller to defend themselves against the being clan would take great care and not leaving any evidence to their presence staging a death to seem like animal tax or accidents which is actually would allow them to commit their wand on butchery for such an extended period of time. It all started with the patriarch. Alexander being whose nickname was shawny and to say he had a harsh upbringing would be a pretty vast understatement. Life was hard in the area. He grew up and for the lower classes to survive. It required harsh daily toil just to get by. He regular beatings from his father for not being good enough and lived in squalor with little lover faction from anyone as Alexander grew older. He would attempt to finally please his abusive father by joining him in the workforce to perform manual labor and like any legend. There's different versions of this tale. Some say he was a landscaper others. He was just a lowly ditch digger but the lack of opportunities and monotonous worked seem more of a prison to him where others considered it honest work and being a contributing member of society. He also didn't really get along well with others casually disregarding any rules or any type of authority and he pretty much rubbed most people. He met the wrong way. This led to Alexander being alienated from his peers and he grew to detest the manual labor expected of him which eventually led to him leaving his home and disappointing his overbearing father for the last time. Alexander traveled to South Air. Shire where he met a woman named Agnes Douglas who also had no interest in the toil of slavelike Labor available in the area and was rumored to be a of black magic the to really like each other and hit it off forming a relationship. But it wasn't long before people began to make acusations towards Agnes. This was back in the times when people really really hated witchcraft. We're talking burning people at the stake times. So if the accusations against Agnes were true. She was really playing with fire. They called her a witch and proclaimed she had fellowship with the people of the town even giving her a nickname calling her black. Agnes the dark which of Lowthian soon after the young couple had to escape to the countryside to avoid prosecution and an almost certain death by the MOM now. Becoming basically outlaws. They took up residence in a remote coastal cave. Henn found survival to be even harder in the harsh wilderness than it was before and I guess. Drastic Times call for drastic measures because they would rob all people unlucky enough to come across them. The only problem was they had no way of spending their stolen loot with Agnes being wanted for witchcraft and all so starvation seemed imminent as their food. Supplies ran low. This is when Agnes convinced Alexander that there was a way out of their predicament. And that night. They murdered for the first time then. Feasted upon the victim's flesh them. There were rumors that agnes had consumed flesh and performed human sacrifices among the villagers before they fled from civilization. If these rumors were true then it wouldn't have been the first time the which had prepared a human for dinner before nonetheless after this vile act the two were bonded by their gruesome deed and there was no turning back. The bean clan would grow quickly as Alexander and Agnes. Got Busy often to the point. She was pregnant almost every year. So for quite some time they had six daughters and eight sons together but being cannibalistic outcasts. They had no new blood to genes from so the being children resorted to incest to quell their sexual desires. This would lead to eighteen. Incestuous grandchildren whom would also breed among their siblings in total the whole being clan growing to around forty-eight members strong and that's a lot of mouths to feed but for twenty eight years the being gland survived of passing travelers by robbing killing. Then butchering them callously. However eventually people did start to notice the massive amount of missing people and began to question the sources of these mysterious vanishing 's though the beans were always careful and staged many of their murder scenes to look like an animal attack. The numbers were just growing too high to dismiss not only that but the clan needed so much flesh to feed their brood that they had difficulty disposing of the victim's remains and made the mistake of throwing them into the sea these bodies eventually and inevitably began to wash up on shore which greatly alarmed the villagers nearby even more than they already were. Unrest grew among the village as the people assumed that there were dangerous outlaws along the coast. The area was thoroughly searched but somehow the being clan avoided detection very aware that they were being searched for the being clan ration their meat and stuck to their cave until the searches died off with no banded the blame after the failed investigation. The law found scapegoats depend the murders on and hung innocent men to calm the restless villagers soon after though the beans would just leave their cave to feed once more and the killings would begin all over again but the killer. Cannibal families luck would eventually take a turn for the worst. After a festival. Young man and his wife walked along the coast back to their home. It was a busy time with the festival and all so there was much more traffic going through the area than usual. The cannibals descended on the couple and manage to kill the man's wife because of the surprise attack however the man was very skilled in combat surviving the initial Soltan even managing to pull out his sword to defend himself. The beans who killed his wife dragged body away from the conflict in actually began butchering her with inside of her husband. This drove the man into a vengeful rage. Inspired him to bring retribution to the incestuous cannibals. Even more somehow the man fought the beans off long enough for more villagers walking home from the festival to notice and the opposing numbers grew great for the beans so they fled back to their cave and with the villagers now very aware of the killer family. A party of four hundred men with hounds led by the king himself went out searching for him. It didn't take long for the hounds to get the scent of the beans who killed the man's wife at the scene of the murder and the dogs led the search party right to the cave where the family lived. What they found within was basically. A nightmare made real. There were pickled jars of their victims body. Parts and bones basically spread throughout everywhere on the floor along with the belongings of the dead and in the cave was decorated in Gore and filth that made the Christian villagers stomachs turn. There was art made in human blood all around in a stench like a sewer was thick in the air. Basically a real life horror movie. After a short but bloody struggle Alexander saw his family stood no chance against the search parties numbers so they surrendered to the king and were led away from the cave in chains. What was left of the Cannibal family was taken to the toll booth in Edinburgh where they were executed for their crimes? The family suffered a well deserved but horrible fate. The men were castrated. Then had their hands and feet cutoff. In plain sight of the women and children they were left there in front of them to bleed to death slowly while the crowd jeered and taunted them then after all the men were dead the women and children were taken to be burned alive at the stake the ending the horrifying legacy of the killer. Cannibal family of Scotland. The famed Horror Director. Wes Craven said this gruesome tale. Greatly inspired him when he wrote his horror movie. The hills have eyes and has actually gone on to inspire a bunch of other horror movies to the killer. Cannibal family is terrifying theme in the horror genre. Like legendary films such as the Texas chainsaw massacre the wrong turn series. The Devil's rejects Ravenous bloodlines and many more hits very unsettling cannibal serial killer families is an actual thing in the real world but truth is always stranger than fiction listeners. Thanks for listening to cryptic chronicles. Are you interested in starting your own? Podcast please support the show. Using our sponsor blueberries blueberries optimize rights as well as pretty much all podcasts. Ups Don't worry about contracts or expensive fees you have your own. Rss Feeds and no third-party sites. You won't ever have to leave your own website. Blueberry hosting really is the key to podcast excess. Try It for a month free and a month. Free podcast statistics by GOING CRYPTIC CHRONICLES PODCASTS DOT com at the bottom of the homepage. You'll see the blueberry by going through us. You'll really be helping us out. Also make sure to support the show by joining the chroniclers fault by supporting us on patriotic. You'll have access to exclusive. Bonus episodes the more financial support. We get the more content. We can produce. Anything will help. If you can't afford the chroniclers ball simply donate whatever you can. We would greatly appreciate it but a cryptic chronicles podcasts. Dot Com and click the donation button on the bottom of the homepage to keep up to date with all cryptic chronicle content. Follow us on twitter. Tumbler or potato during the facebook page alike but also be very awesome. Thank you for supporting cryptococcal. Most of all thanks for listening and nextstep. We have a hold school. Pretty light generic go stale. The Brown Lady of Raynham Hall from Eighteenth Century Norfolk Great Britain in life. She was known as lady. Dorothy walpole sister of Robert Walpole. Who's known as the first Prime Minister of Great Britain? The dorothy was unfortunate enough to become the second wife of the powerful vis count. Charles townes hen the second he was born into high class British society and pretty used to privilege. Charles had basically everything handed to him. He was basically the epitome of the upper-class one percent so calling him spoiled would be an understatement and he developed a notoriously violent temper as he grew into a man he loved and hated quickly with his passions getting his actions in the never changed his mind once. It was made no matter. How ridiculous after lady. Dorothy and the VISCONTI got married. She was pretty much mistreated and neglected off the bat and it got so bad for her she basically just started looking for love elsewhere but somehow Charles found out about it and his ego could not stand his wife being drawn to another man. So you can guess where this is going. Dorothy became a prisoner in her own home. She was imprisoned in a secluded room all alone unable to even see her own children or interact with the outside world ever again in any way eventually. Dorothy died in seventeen twenty six. Though the reason of her death raised many eyebrows. Supposedly she died from smallpox but most believed she was either murdered or committed suicide the entire latter part of Lady Dorothy. His life was spent in lonely isolation and eternal frustration at her helplessness. Under her husband's cruel punishment. One hundred years went by with lady. Dorothy becoming nothing but a fleeting memory but it is around this time that Raynham Hall's legendary ghost activity really comes into prominence. Her restless spirit couldn't pass on and one people nights. She made her presence known. There is a Christmas party at Raynham Hall in eighteen thirty five. Many nobles in high ranking members of British Society enjoyed the festivities of the holiday until one guest said they saw something unreal a military man by the name of colonel. Loftus said that on the way to his room late in the night he was approached by grisly specter of a woman. Walking the hall with an outdated Frayed Brown dress. Her face seemed to glow with otherworldly light in her eyes were just hollow sockets later another man named Hawkins he'd seen the ethic woman to and Ed children to the bone the very next night Colonel Loftus encountered the entity again but this time when he spoke of the encounter it was just too much for the guests. Many left Raynham Hall that Very Day and some staff even putting the resignation never returning the Warren Brown dress that the ghost is described as wearing is obviously the source of the ghost name and one of Britain's most famous ghost legends was born. Only a year passed before the next sighting of Lady Dorothy apparition Captain Frederick. Maria an author an officer in the World Navy wanted to debunk the alleged go citing which had been the hot topic of the upper-class for some time he was completely skeptical the captain did have a theory though that the whole thing was made up by smugglers in the area to keep people away so that they conduct their nefarious activities. He even asked to stay in the room that Dorothy died in where a painting of her hung on the wall. For some reason the captain's slept with a loaded pistol under his pillow but otherwise basically seemed pretty much unfazed by the whole thing. He slept in the room for two nights with a nothing unusual at that point pretty much thinking that his staying there had proved the ghosts citing a hoax at least in his own mind but on the third night the nephews of the Baroness who owned Raynham Hall. Came to the captain's room and asked if he wished to inspect new gun they'd received from London. He agreed to even though he had been preparing for. Beduin was in his undergarments. The captain took his pistol with him jokingly saying he better bring it just in case they ran into the Brown lady then he followed the young men from his room it was late night and the majority of the people at the estate had already retired to their rooms for sleep. The hallways were pretty dark in on the way back. The hall was only lit by a single candle. The two nephews accompanied him laughing about how they protect. Captain Frederick from the Brown lady as the three men walked down the hall. They spotted a lamp coming their way and the figure of a woman in remember. The captain was in his undergarments basically his underwear and this was like a more prudish modest age. So not wanting to freaked. The girl out the captain hid in the archway before room and the two nephews followed his lead. They pretty much just head. There silently as the woman grew closer and closer when she was close enough. Her therik nature became apparent which really freaked out. The three men panicked. The captain actually jumped out in front of her and there she was the apparition were tattered. Brown dress and her twisted face glowed white with holidays. Sockets the entity just stood there and grinned at the Captain Demonic Only. The captain was pretty overcome with fear but he managed to lift his pistol and he shot the apparition. Right in the face for some reason this caused the specter to instantly vanish. Right before the three men's is kept in Frederick than left Raynham Hall that very night and refused to ever step foot again. The three men would all go on to tell the tale to a lot of people basically everyone. They met spreading the legend even further. There would be a lot of random sightings of the Brown lady for basically another century and few would ever dare to stay in her former room then in nineteen thirty six photographers for country. Life magazine visited the secluded estate. They took pictures of the house in the grounds outside but inside when they were taking pictures of the staircase a photographer noticed otherworldly white wisps beginning to descend from the top of the stairs. It formed into a woman Brown dress. The photographer then took a picture and one of the most famous ghost photos in the world was taken. The picture was even released to the public in a bestselling issue of the magazine. Back in nineteen thirty seven but it was actually the last reported sighting of the Brown Lady of Raynham Hall. If you want to check the picture out for yourself to go look at the show notes. I'll posted there for you. Most people have at least heard of the legend of the Bermuda Triangle. Hundreds of people have gone into the triangle. Only the anomalous locations popularity really began to blow up all the way back in nineteen fifty. It was all because of a series of articles that were published in many. Us newspapers which talked about all the plethora of unexplained disappearances that happened in the area and because the authors gave no reason for the vanishing 's it made the public's imagination go wild on the subject more than fifty ships in twenty airplanes vanished into nothing in the twentieth century alone with lightning team. Probably being one of the most famous and well documented incidence. It was an air force training. Mission that was on a completely routine flight and was led by a man named Captain Taylor who was a very experienced pilot but what most people don't know. Is that the Bermuda. Triangle is actually just one of many such anomalous locations across the planet the Scottish biologist by the name of Ivan Taryn. Sanderson was the first to coined the term the vile mortices. Sanderson actually concluded that there were twelve six locations across the world with the Bermuda Triangle. Just being the most famous strange unexplainable phenomena has happened within these in almost locations all throughout recorded history and has generated countless legends across the planet. While most of these vile board assists or at sea there are actually a few found on land but all these locations have been host to a myriad of vanishing 's and there has been a lot of Imaginative speculation on these mysterious places. Like the voices being gateways to other dimensions or locations of hidden extraterrestrial basis on earth others taking more mundane approach flaming the voices to be locations of dense electromagnetic energy or some even claimed them to be hot spots upon the Ley lines of the planet. The only objectively on the subject is that they remain unexplained to this very day. So I'm going to present to you. A brief overview of all these vortices as will some of the lore surrounding them. These anomalies are located all along the planet's grid five are in the tropic of cancer and five are in the tropic of Capricorn. The last two are located at the north and South Pole respectively. Together they all form into an Aiko Sahelian at twenty faced Paulie. Hebron geometric form for anyone familiar with sacred geometry. This may have some relevance to them and oddly. Enough when mapping out this planetary grid and comparing it to geography from history many famous monuments in ancient civilizations are found on the same lay lines that connect to each every one of the vile vortices which makes me wonder if there's things concerning the earth our ancestors knew that is whilst us in modern times. Mohenjodaro is the first albor Texas. I'm going to go over. It's considered to be one of the world's first major cities with some believing it to be allegedly founded around the twenty sixth century BC. It's located in Modern Day Pakistan and is one of the most epic achievements of the Indus Valley civilization seriously. These people were creating wonders not seen again for thousands upon thousands of years. These monumental architectural achievements could rival Mesopotamia or even Egypt but when the city was found in the twenty s. It actually came with a pretty ominous discovery. All throughout the city were skeletal remains of people in contorted positions which is pretty objective evidence for violent and painful deaths in ancient times. The city's population seems to have been massacred. Which is pretty interesting. Considering that archaeologically the Indus Valley civilization bell suddenly without any explanation though the lack of weapons found near the skeletons has led some to question this theory and caused people to speculate that you know. These people died of disease or some kind of natural disaster like flooding though. These theories are pretty highly doubted and despite all the research there are no mainstream theories satisfactory. On how the people actually died that live there but I do enjoy the fringe speculation. David Davenport a researcher of the site and author of the Book Atomic Destruction in two thousand BC has a more alternative view on how the people of Mahendra Daro met their doom. There were many objects found within the ruins that seemed to be fused together from heat that would have to be at least fifteen hundred degrees. Celsius to do so as well as melted bricks only from a single direction. One of the skeletons brought to a lab for research from Hendro. Daro had fifty times. The radiation level normally found in human body. And the only known weaponry that causes devastation. In the manner founded Mo- Hundred Daro is atomic. Which is both really out there but still pretty interesting. There's definitely a fascinating tale. Concerning this fallen ancient city that we will never know about the next vile vortex North Pole. And it's actually pretty tame concerning unexplained phenomena in Vile Boorda's probably because nobody lives there and it doesn't get much traffic though it does still have. Its disappearances like in eighteen. Forty five win. An expedition of one hundred twenty nine men from England were lost there without a trace. They were found one hundred fifty years later. The evidence of their demise was Grizzly to say the least the Party of explorers had to resort to cannibalism to survive and there were other signs of violent fatalities also. Modern legend suggests that the lost city of Atlantis is frozen under the eyes of the North Pole. However this vile vortex is not the only one to make that claim but there is a lot of strange stuff out there on the North Pole. There's two groups of people who believe that there's an opening there like an opening on the surface a giant one the flat earth believers and the hollow Earth believers in some circles as opening is believed to be a portal to another dimension or even the garden of Eden mentioned in the Bible some flatter Thursday. It leads to Garth a divine realm and the higher state of consciousness with future technology. We shall explore the North Pole more thoroughly and many suggest. The discoveries could shock humanity to its very core number three on this list is the vile vortex called the Wharton Basin located off the coast of Australia. This particular wild-boar texts had an eight point six magnitude earthquake back in two thousand twelve which decimated the surrounding area and was unprecedented for an interplay earthquake. Then this is also the area where the Malaysian Airline Plane. Vanished back in two thousand fourteen. The Wharton Basin contains deep fractures. Were tectonic plates meet and has a massively high degree of seismic activity and rare geological events as well as being home to a fault line with many of these rare geological events never even occurring anywhere else on the planet which explains why scientists are so keen on studying the Wharton Basin the due to the remote nature of this vile vortex in the Indian Ocean. Much of the unexplained phenomena that happens there has little documentation. And you probably heard of the next vortex. 'cause it's pretty popular. Easter Island. Easter island is filled with many mysteries. It's one of the most isolated islands on earth. That's had a human population but this enigmatic location is world famous for its incredibly bazaar statues. There are eight hundred. Eighty seven of these statues called Moi statues which were created by the ROB. A new e people. The reason these massive human like statues were created in. The first place remains unknown. But there's a whole ton of theories regarding him to me. They seem like something to do with their religion. However the main contention is how these massive stone sculptures were removed the way up to eighty tons and seems beyond the grasp of such a primitive culture. Not only to move it but to even just create the massive stone artwork in the nineteen eighties. Scientists tried to replicate how the statues could have been moved using only tools known to exist at the time and it proved to be literally impossible to do so. Rapanui folklore says the statues were animated by magic and move on their own. So it's not clear why scientists. Just don't become wizards and move the stone statues with Arcane power. There's also theories that the Moi statues were created by aliens or at least the rob a new e people were influenced by aliens to create them in the first place. I'm pretty convinced that the statues were just moved with the ropes. Because I recently saw a youtube video where people were literally doing that. They had a rope on each side and the Front. And they were just wiggling it back and forth and it was moving forward. Sings believing still Easter Island is definitely a fascinating valid. Tech's with one of the most mysterious in enigmatically interesting people on Earth and the fifth vile vortex is the Algierian megaliths. These ancient monoliths are burial ground in North West Africa located in the Sahara desert. They were created by the zing empire a civilization shrouded in mystery and legend existing in the area long before recorded history. There is very little information on these people because they're just so ridiculously ancient so ancient. It's basically impossible that they built something so advanced it requires engineering skills just non existent at that time in history but they exist of the little things that actually known about this area is that lanes that fly over this vile vortex often vanished without a trace many believe that this is a curse from the dead that dwell at the monoliths though this being a vial vortex the unexplained phenomena go far beyond mere disappearances electronics don't work correctly at the site. Compasses SPIN IN CIRCLES AND MENU. Visit the location. Claiming has an aura of darkness about it. Many claiming that it causes them to have an ever-present anxiety in the past. People who journeyed into this area of the Sahara desert didn't return were said to be the victims of Supernatural Jin the desolate places of the Earth being the main home of these entities disrespecting or messing around with any of the Monolithic. Burial grounds is rumored to bring lifelong bad luck. An early death the next vile vortex is the dragons triangle which we've talked about on the show before in a vault episode. It's also called the devil. See The dragons triangle is located near Japan and has an insane amount of strange occurrences literally. Countless ships vanished while gone through it and ufo sightings are pretty abundant there to the Japanese have a dense collection of folklore surrounding the triangle. But it's what's found underneath the waters. That's truly fascinating. The dragons triangle is home to the famous Uni Monument. The underwater city has been called. Japan's Atlanta's it's a massive city made with huge stone slabs that were cut into perfect ninety degree angles. It also has sophisticated wall steps in columns but sadly the civilization has been lost a time. And then there's next to no information on it though. The architectural achievements are astonishing for any age in history and allegedly this sunken cities over ten thousand years. Old Ships and planes have always vanished and nothing there to the point. The Japanese government has even labeled the site a disaster area to be avoided at all costs by law seriously the dark legends that surround the devil. See Go back. Throughout Japanese history. Metallic objects have been said to rise out of the water only does zoom out of sight. Astonishing speeds there's been a lot of USO sightings here if you're unfamiliar with but a USO is it's an unidentified submerged object and according to legend wing monsters are said to rise from the waves and take flight in some legends. See Monsters even come up to the surface that breathe fire so this vile vortex is pretty much one of the most active spots for unexplained phenomena. If you want to know more about the dragons triangle check out the vault episode entitled Prehistory Advanced Civilizations Next is how Makola and a lot of strange in paranormal phenomena occurs within this Hawaiian vile vortex with the strange occurrences mainly focusing around the revered volcano of Hamas Julia. But the actual location of this vile vortex is off the coast of Hawaii out notion the source of the vortexes power is believed to come from the Hammock. Uli Volcano on the south side of Kauai. The lava from the volcano travels underneath mainland Hawaii and underneath the ocean floor to a place called the ring of fire which is a group of underwater volcanoes and all this lava flows directly through the vile bore. Tech's numerous planes and ships have vanished without a trace in the area which I guess is a trademark of all the valve mortices but also strange electrical energy flow throughout the region rocks on the volcano randomly. Become magnetized which is pretty weird complete with the spinning compass and things of that nature the locals of Hawaii I have a long and colorful folklore surrounding hammock. Julia and they treat the volcano with utter reverence. The next vile vortex is the new head rides. Trench which is a massive trench with depths of twenty five thousand feet in the southwestern Pacific Ocean in the dark depths of the trench. Scientists have discovered a species of immensely large deals among other unique life forms in the bitter cold darkness. This is one of the deepest trenches on earth. The farther explorers went down. The creatures became more and more alien like however. Then you have brides trenches. Actually one of the more tame vile Boorda's. It has the anomalous electromagnetic activity. That's basically the calling card of all the vortices but this vortex also has a low body count unlike a lot of the other locations. I'm talking about there's also no ufo sightings or an explained weather or lot of the other things that are strange and bizarre that surround the board. Is's in the next vile vortex takes us to Zimbabwe known as the Zimbabwe megaliths built around nine hundred years ago. These massive stone structures have held up quite well in are still very impressive. Till This Day. The entire complex spans almost eighteen hundred acres which for monolith so ancient is an astounding feat to say the least estimates say took around three hundred years to build and was home to a population of eighteen thousand people at its height but then all the sudden the entire settlement was abandoned for mysterious reasons. Many speculate about what might have been but there really isn't anything to work with them. There's no objective reason as to why. Zimbabwe megaliths were left to become a ghost town. Archaeological evidence doesn't really suggest violence or anything of that nature. Either it's like one day. The settlement's inhabitants. Just all vanished like all vile vortices dose. Strange phenomenon happens her often but sadly the folklore that surrounds the site has been lost to the passage of time. The next file vortex is pretty interesting. It's I guess it's very different than the rest of it's called the South Atlantic Anomaly. The South Atlantic Anomaly is a place on earth where the natural radiation from the planet is out of Control. This is because the earth intermediation belt actually comes closest to the surface in this particular area of the globe. It creates a flux of energetic particles that permeate from the planet. The point satellites are exposed to much higher levels of radiation than there used to an orbiting around and crafts that fly over at suffer from the high levels of radiation. Interestingly enough astronauts who look outside while passing over it have claimed have strange hallucinations. That they'd term cosmic ray visual phenomena. The Hubble Telescope is unable to take pictures while passing over the anomaly and the International Space Station spent billions in high-tech shielding to protect them from the bombardment of radiation basic `electronic. Don't work when space shuttles Passover it costing all spacefaring nations an insane amount of money damages. There's also many plane vanishing in the area in one case a French. Airbus of three hundred and thirty people disappeared without a trace while flying over the anomaly. Some people who believe in more out there stuff leave that this is one of the vile mortices that the door to another dimension and all ships in planes lost their have actually crossed over into another plane of existence. And we're getting there. Almost all these vile mortices the next valve or Texas. The South Pole the Antarctic has a population of around four thousand people. Most of the population are just researchers or scientists. Despite this there's never really been any scientific explanation for the area's odd occurrences. Antarctica has for a long time now been suspected of housing ancient civilizations beneath its ice including the theory. That it's actually Atlantis buried underneath the inhospitable surface. It's a pretty popular theory. There's a famous mound in the shape of a pyramid well of allegedly a pyramid. Some researchers are adamant that the pyramid was man made and indeed. It doesn't seem to look like a natural formation. It's unfortunate with our current level of technology that Antarctica can't really be explored in a manner useful to discovering the truth to these mysteries still many claim that one day when we're able humanity will discover an entire law civilization under the ice pop culture actually latched onto this idea longtime ago anyone familiar with HP lovecraft knows that the accounts of his book at the mountains of madness takes place in the chilling continent of Antarctica. And let's face it if you're into cryptic chronicles you're probably into HP lovecraft to in detail. Human explorers come across the remnants of a pre human alien civilization encountering horrors that drives them to insanity there have been countless disappearances unexplained phenomena to happen at this viable tech's in a plethora of bizarre deaths all right onto the twelfth and final. Vile Vortex. The Bermuda Triangle. Also called the Devil's triangle. This vile vortex needs no introduction. I assume it's infamous across many cultures and easily the most well known of all the vile mortices countless ships planes and even entire fleets have vanished without a trace in this ominous triangle. Off The coast of Florida really. An astonishing number of people have journeyed out into the triangle. Never to return I mean even recently on May fifteenth two thousand seventeen. A plane vanished in the triangle at carried the CEO of skylight group which is a pretty big corporation some say the vanishing czar because of an anomalous form of methane gas since the area sometimes become so foggy out of nowhere. Making it impossible to see some say. It's because of aliens who live in an underwater base beneath the triangle. And of course there's those who claim to be a portal to another dimension and this is yet another vile vortex many claim that the lost city of Atlantis Resides Sunken beneath the ocean and the unexplained phenomena in the area occurs because of crystal technology lost at the bottom of the sea the only objective thing. Anyone can really say about the Bermuda Triangle. Is Tim not go there? If you value your own life uh Today I kinda got sick during making this episode. So sorry if you can tell and sorry for putting me behind schedule. Try really hard to get out of good Halloween episode. If I'm running at a time anyway thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.

devils Raynham Hall Gerard Schaefer Jin Bermuda Triangle Agnes Douglas Texas Dorothy walpole Alexander Jenner Zhen youtube murder Tim Hacker Scotland Light Jin Islamic Times Zhen Disney Bliss Zimmer
US DOJ Indicts Fujian Jinhua - DTH

Daily Tech Headlines

05:36 min | 2 years ago

US DOJ Indicts Fujian Jinhua - DTH

"These daily tech headlines for Friday, December second twenty eighteen I- Brits, drop Alito. US Justice department brought indictment against the Thailand-based United Microelectronics Corp and Chinese state-owned Fuzhen Jin wa integrated circuit co as well as three individuals alleging conspiracy to seal dear trade secrets from Micron Technology, the United States that former Micron employees recruited other former employees while at United micro-electronics at set up a Fuzhen Jin wa in two thousand sixteen specifically to develop Iran based on the stolen trade secrets the Justice department also filed a civil lawsuit to prevent the two companies from exporting any products using the trade secrets. Google will now require users to enable Java scrip- when logging in Google uses Java script to run a risk assessment. And says point one percent of users run with Java. Scrip- turned off this will disproportionately impact Botts which run through headless browsers with Java scrip- generally turned off for performance reasons. Goodwill, also use data from play protect the list harmful apps in the security checkup section and prompt them to uninstall them, Google also notify you whenever you share any data from your Google account. Not just g mail or contacts and Google will begin walking people through securing their account if potentially unauthorized activity is detected. It's earning season. And apple announced earn two dollars and ninety one cents per share in q four with revenue of sixty two point nine billion dollars. Analysts had expected earnings per share of two dollars and seventy eight cents and revenue of sixty one point five seven billion dollars, the company sold forty six point eight nine million. I phones in the corner with flat growth on the year. They did miss analysts forecast, though of forty seven point five million iphone sold. Average sale price did increase Twenty-eight percent on the year to seven hundred and ninety three dollars beating analysts expectations of seven fifty seventy eight services revenue increase twenty-seven percent on the year to nine point nine eight billion dollars other product revenue increase increased and that includes apple watch air pot and home pod. And increased thirty one percent on the year to four point two three billion dollars in interesting note, apple CFO, Luca masonry announced on the earnings call that going forward apple report sales revenue for Macs, iphones and ipads in a single revenue figure. As opposed to breaking them out as they traditionally have done. Alibaba announced it earned nine point six Yuan per share, the equivalent of one dollar thirty seven cents US in Q two with revenue of eighty five point fifteen billion Yuan analysts had expected earnings per share of seven point four one Yuan and revenue of eighty six point five one billion Yuan despite missing analysts expectations on revenue overall. They revenue grew fifty four point five percent on the year core ecommerce revenue grew fifty six percent on the year to seventy two point four eight billion Yuan. While Alibaba cloud posted revenue a five point six seven billion Yuan ninety point five increase a ninety point five percent increase on the year. Freedom House issued its annual internet freedom report seventeen of sixty five countries in their adopted laws restricting online menia of those thirteen prosecuted citizens for spreading false information. The USO a one point decline in its freedom ranking attributed mostly to the repeal of open internet guidelines and the renewal of surveillance authorization. Eighteen countries increase state surveillance, thirty two countries, employed, commentators, Botts and trolls are menia saw social media help. It's peaceful revolution earlier in the year. And the is new prime minister released bloggers from prison and pledged to restrictions on online communications. In a series of tweets. Tesla's CEO Elon Musk claim that an advanced version of the auto park. Summoned feature will be ready within six weeks the feature will allow owners of Tesla's less than two years old to have their car. Follow them if these summoned button on tesla app is held down as well as allow the owners to drive the car remotely with the phone when in line of sight, as if that's not something crazy must also claim that the summoned that a summit updating twenty nineteen will allow tesla. Vehicles to drive around a parking lot for spots and Termine if it's legal to park at no pinning a new IDC report shows that three hundred fifty five point two million smartphone unit shipped in Q three down six percent on the year and the fourth consecutive quarter of year on year. Decline Samsung remained the largest smartphone company with twenty point three percent of the market. But overall shipments declined thirteen point four percent to seventy two point two billion units. Excuse me million units while way jemmy continued to grow shipments. On the air despite a contracting Chinese smartphone market, claiming the number two and four spots respectively. Apper main the number three spot with affectively, no growth on iphone sales. And finally flicker announced. It will no longer require users to sign in with their Yahoo account credentials as of January twenty nineteen but that those free accounts will no longer have one terabyte of storage Ono. Instead, they'll be limited to one thousand photos pro users will who pay fifty dollars a year will get unlimited photo storage. Remember for more discussion of the tech news of the day? Subscribe to the daily tech new show at daily tech new show dot com or in your pod catcher of choice. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back with more headlines coming Monday. So from all of us here at daily tech headlines. Remember have a super sparkly day.

Google apple Alibaba Tesla Botts United States Fuzhen Jin Alito Justice department Freedom House Fuzhen Jin wa Micron USO United Microelectronics Corp
Ryan Reynolds

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist

37:26 min | 2 years ago

Ryan Reynolds

"Hey, guys, guys here with another episode of the Sunday sit down podcast. Thanks so much as always for tuning in for some scrubbing and listening every week. Really appreciate it. And I got another good one for you. This week, Hollywood superstar, Ryan Reynolds. Here's the deal in this interview. Ryan doesn't have movie out the ever TV show out nothing related to Hollywood, but he did by a gin company. He bought a gin company. It's called aviation American gin here the story in the interview, but he was sitting at a bar in Portland enjoying gin, and he asked the bartender, what is this bartender says? It's a local Portland Jin a company called aviation. So how about aviation, the next getting a phone call from guy name, Ryan Reynolds and saying, I love your Jin. How can I help out? One thing leads to another. He is now the majority owner of aviation American gin. So we talk about the obvious question, which is, are you going for the Clooney play here? Which is the Clooney and his partner Randy Gerber -est. Established Kasa migos to Quila and sold it recently for one billion dollars billion with a b.. We also talk with Ryan over a gin and tonic a heavy hand on the poor. By the way from Ryan, he really gets in there on you. We talk over a gin and tonic about his childhood is in Canada. The youngest of four boys and his family trying to make it in Los Angeles, including a terrible first night in show. Business will tell you that story, and I didn't realize how long it took him to get deadpool made eleven years. He fought for this eleven years. People didn't think it was gonna work. It's now a billion and a half dollar franchise over two movies, including the big one that was out this year also get into his relationship with Blake lively, his wife and why they really, really don't take themselves seriously and how they loved to give each other crap on social media. A funny conversation with just a good dude, Ryan Reynolds right now on the Sunday sit down podcast incisive fine. You really your home away from home, which is an empty bar and eleven. Gyn at eleven AM with really free noon. Yes. Before I pick my child from school that has you do that's going to be good tabloid fodder. I into school. I was just saying, I'm going to address in a mo- burst through the the wall like the Kool-Aid characters to do in the eighties nineties. Just keep my page six tomorrow be exciting. It's gonna be great. So tell me how you got into the Jin business. Have you always been Jin guy? I've always liked gin. I never loved it until it tried this. I always in Vancouver and I was shooting up there and I was I would go to this one particular restaurant. I'm always growing and they would say, I would say this is the best known I've ever had would say, well, aviation Grosny and I thought that's just what they called it. I didn't realize that VA shin was the name of the Jin. So by the time I got hip to that and and then I bought a bottle and it was just something I enjoyed to drinking at home, and and I would send it to friends who like gin. They always switch. And even if they're vodka. Switch to this particular gin and then and then I found out it was a tiny itty bitty company in Portland, and I was able to weasel my way as an owner. It's a long way though from enjoy a drink at a bar saying, I like this aviation to be majority owner in the company. Yeah. How'd you get to that point pretty organically? If you can imagine that it was, it was kind of a match and having any organization wants somebody represented that has passionate that really loves it and his genuine authentic about it. So so I had that. I love their story. I love that that that Jin was actually one of the few, the first spirit that was created by both bartender ended distillery. So it really had something special behind. I fell in love with it and I just somehow was able to to become an owner. I felt like I can grow it. I love marketing. I love these the sort of the mix of sort of genuine authentic sort of type of marketing that sets up in expectation comes ninety degrees to it. So there was something fun and kind of ironic we could do with. That, and I just love it. And plus, you know, I come from a long line of of of craft alcohol creators. My father used to make wine be really, he did. He. He used to make wine in the basement in a in a gigantic and I'm making this up green garbage can. He didn't ensure did, and he loved it. He had such a passion for that and it just it really to me, spells it out. It really goes to show you that if you love something and you have real passion for it, even if it's made in the garbage can. You can make a pretty terrible product. My father's my father's wine. I think he's legally classified as a poison. It was like if I had a body and I wanted to get rid of it, I would probably put that body in my father's garbage can. Wine just to dissolve is all it would be gone in a second, and he made it like we used to think he's on there for hours and hours and hours. And after a while, we were like, oh, he's just down. Because he doesn't like us like he's just down there reading, Tom Clancy novels, and hanging out with a crushing grapes and a member of my brothers. And I discovered that he'd made this wind for years from like a powder like it was wines answer to Tang. It was you wouldn't wash your socks. You wouldn't wash your civil war socks in this in this mixture and I have one bottle left. Oh, do you really? My father's unfortunately passed passed on, but I do have one bottle of of. Jay Reynolds and sons wine. He I don't know why he dragged us nothing to do with this at all. But yeah. So so you didn't Herod the wind company? I never. I would never pretend for even a second that I make gin gin has been made for decades without me beautifully. So so yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't mess around with that. I just I'm just a huge fan and an advocate for, I don't know. I sort of like the idea of getting into the garbage wine. Oh, I love to truly love it. He made wine. Giant green, industrial garbage can. Is it me right? Or does this taste a little different than other Jin I've had because I think I know what Jin tasting. It's not my number one drink do enjoy it, but this tastes different. Kind of, I'm not a mixologist. I'm not somebody who has an expertise. I just know what I like, and I love gin, and I know that this is so I found out since then there's less juniper in Jin as opposed to the London dry gin which have attended Tennessee tastes like Christmas and aqap. This has none of that. So this is why I fell in love with it. It's a, it's just a and it's also you know, Jin is like one of the few spirits that's booming. It's there's, there's a modern gin craze, you know. So it's and I get it. There was gonna jingle seventeen hundreds zip. There's a gin craze in the UK and they introduced. I think it was five pieces of legislation to stop the consumption of gin. If we get back into that territory, I've. Obviously done something I was gonna say, that's great publicity for you. Get some legislation introduced legislation here. You mentioned juniper. I hear you drop in a lot of terms here about distillation Sasser, realistic reading, Hugh cards, actually, right over your shoulder. I wondered how you knew throw to me. No, that's your card. Sorry, that was all right. But if you talk to be work at the company been there awhile, they say, you're not just a name on the door. You're not just the phase out selling your super involve on. It's all. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a lot of the less sexy stuff that I do. It's the, it's the calling buyers. It's the calling heads, huge companies. It's flying to all over the country. I mean in this last month in tissue Kaga Los Angeles, Dallas, where else, London, it's meeting these companies and and talking about the product and talking about putting it in their companies and it's and it's blowing up. Not supposed to say what it is, but it's triple digits in in one year in triple digits growth in one year's doesn't a movie star as the face of it. When you walk into those meetings or Chicago or London, probably want selfie with you and then they wanna hear what your cell deal. But it's also it's interesting. The liquor business is not unlike show business as much as it's built on relationships as built on handshakes. For my from my perspective, I've gotten farther and show business just based on having real relationships with people that I have just from having agents or other people represent and speak for me. So I like to speak for myself. So it's not like how I work in the entertainment industry. I talked to the executives in the studio bosses myself. I don't go through intermediary. I'd like to myself and that's something that I think that the buyers of aviation of connected with, you know. So. So I like the nitty gritty stuff. I like picking up the phone and calling people. I like, you know, not just being a sort of Assad owner, but in actual kind of I, I think for the first time in your professional life, you almost wanna call it an. Office job, but you're dealing with all the things that come with working at a company this, including having office Email? Yeah, famously have these out of office. We have Ryan Ryan aviation, Jin dot com. It's a, we have out of office emails that go out and they're always just different and totally bananas, and it's fun for me. I like I love writing love doing those things sorts of things, unorthodox style of marketing. So everybody at the company that I, I'm lucky enough to work with sort of his on board with the same sort of idea. We all have a wheel of a similar sense of humor, and we all sort of none of us take ourselves too seriously, which is great. So this is kind of going around the celebrity liquor thing. So my question to you is, are you Clooney with CASA, migos or Diddy with ceramic? I would say I think nobody can read George did with causing Ego's is amazing. You know, he's a guy that that created his favourite tequila and I have the utmost respect for what he did with that. I mean, it's. It's unbelievable. I'm a guy who to who found his favorite gin so I didn't create it the way he did. I found this huge fan. I bought into the company and took over and George created it. So he's a crate, his love, everything that he does. So yeah, I think it's probably in in terms of that spectrum a little bit closer to Sarah? Yeah. Did you talk to George about this? You say, hey, I noticed he did pretty well on this is a good business to be in. Yeah, he hung up on meal. Lose the number. Who's this never heard of them click and then just like dead. Silence I heard hawk circling above and that was kind of blackout from shame. No, I love him and I love everything. He does both on camera off camera in his business world and outside. So it's it's, I'm thinking about working at aviation American. Gin and getting a phone call like an unsolicited phone call. Ryan Reynolds saying, I wanna get involved. It was their reaction. It sort of probably like a really upscale telemarketer. It was pretty great. I mean, it started as just a meeting I thought about, like, you know, helping out in some way. I didn't wanna do like a traditional embassador type role. The embassador ship stuff is a little phony to me. I wanted to be. I wanted to be in the DNA of the product and and in a real way, and I wanted to introduce it to the world on a railway. So the the early conversations were great. They were really collaborative and they were totally into it. I was totally into it. So it just felt like a lot of partnerships. They felt not unlike to give it a sort of an equivalency or maybe a false like deadpool just felt like this natural fit with people that were involved. And we all just signed had the exact same visions. The fire also give me a great segue into deadpool. I tend to do that very well done. I don't think I've sat down with you since the pre years. So thousand fifteen. I think I looked today the last time I talked to you're working on deadpool, but it wasn't quite there yet. Can you believe that in the last two years, those two. Movies made more than one point. Five billion dollars. No, I just got like a weird shiver when he said that. Yeah, it's it's very hot at some. Yeah, it's, I can't believe to be honest. It's no, I love pool, so I'm it's great cheerleader. I love the character. I love about it. You know, I, I love how people rally behind it. I love how kids love it, but not little kids. I mean, kids we do so much stuff with kids, and I love how dead pool is characterised cancer, a character, a superhero that has cancer. So he resonates with with with certain groups of people facing pretty significant life challenges that that that I can't even imagine. And and so you get to a lot of work in that space, which I love. What do you think it is about that character that caught fire? It feels to me like came along sort of the right time in the sequence of superhero movies. Yeah, a little bit of turning the knife and spoofing at a bit. Yeah. I think there's something really fun about a tr-. True rascal, you know, and he works in a kind of space that isn't just that typical kind of PG. Thirteen thing and also dead pool is, is, is a superhero that I think audience audiences tend to to really connect with because he's four the people on he's speaking to the audience in the movie, and there's also something else that that will visit. He does walk that that very precarious tight rope between good and bad. He's always kind of struggling with his own moral compass, and I think that's very relatable thing for a superhero to have a guy with his superhuman ability who has faced a lot of crap in his life and still sort of pushes on. And we also don't deal with stakes deadpool's never trying to save the world. It's all about the little things trying to save kid or he's trying to do this one good thing that he can like move. One notch up closer to maybe heavens. I don't think most people realize what it took to get the movies made in the first place before the first aid get in there, get you some aviation Jin before the movie was made. It was what eleven years in the making. And why did it takes a long. I think it was a real gamble. I think any studio would sort of say that that it was a character that was for them was a huge gamble. What was working at the time where these very much more traditional superhero movies know we're a little subversive and they're all well made. I mean, like the stuff that Marvel's doing is incredible convenience hire vendors, casts all those guys. They hit it out of the park every time, but but it was unique. It was something completely different. So I get studios, don't wanna take a risk on something that is going against the grain of what's working and deadpool was small enough that I think that they were able to eventually take that risk. I mean, our are test footage that we created years before Danieli leaked onto the internet, which was very unfortunate for for the student has the search for the league. Go to work as hard as I can. I invest almost all of my spare time and trying to find find that bastard that culprit bring him to Justice, bring him to his knees, give them a hot bath. Let them took his kids independent night on Jin company some day. I, no, that was huge because what it did was it gave the audience, you know, the ability to become the authors that pool that destiny. So the audience really was defensive deadpool that that forced the studios hand into making the movie. They roared loud and proud on the internet, and this had to listen. So they said, yeah, you can make the movie, you know, you can make it for for you know, six dollars and a half a Cup of spit and we did, and it became this, you know now it's a billion dollar franchise that was paid. You hang in the Ryan on it for decade. I feel like if the studio said no twice three times four times, you know what? Maybe this isn't going to happen to the next thing. Yeah, I had moments like that moments where I quit gave up and sort of walked away and then a regime change would happen. You know, the CD would get new new people working there, and I would, you know, hit them as hard as I could. You know, nothing if not persistent. So I, I love it. You know, I genuinely love it and I felt like there was some iteration where. Could get to make this this character and just felt I knew the character knew this guy in a way that I don't think anyone else could do it. You know, just sort of knew the ins and outs of it. And I knew what I was capable of of. I was given the chance to do it and and I knew I do Justice, not just not just for us our high standards for how deadpool's created and produced, but also the audience who who has very specific idea what that character supposed to be. And there was a great back story. It was done so badly in one movie which you know I felt horribly about too because it was like to me, it was the only way I ever got to make the real deadpool movie at the time. It was like, okay, do this character this way will give you a shot at making it the way it's supposed to be made. So we had to ad lib your line. That's was the middle of a writer strikes. No, yeah. So I had to had to. As something that deadpool shows up, speak fast, annoys wolverine. Like I can do that, but it wasn't. That wasn't the part that went sort of left to center. It was the, it was the we're pulling. They wanted to close shot and did also the very weird very anti deadpool. So, and then there's kind of a famous moment where you go to the student, you said your hands on and you'd wanna talk to the studio that what you talked to the company and you write a letter and you say, hey, I'm gonna go be different superhero named Greenland, don't dead pool. Yeah, it was sort of like, you know, standing at the altar and having thoughts or something it was I was I was looking like, it was going to do this other, this superhero movie, and and I just said, if there's any way you guys could see it in your hearts to make this character. I think that there's a real chance tell me now or let's forever holder piece in and they said, no, there's no way so. So they walked away to green lantern. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. And I think at that point had already made the test footage for deadpool and just sort of sat there. They didn't know what we've didn't get feedback on it. As soon as that sucker hit the internet, it was on fire. Acre horrible. Yeah, horrible. Look for him. We'll get Jan. David. Who pick up for kids leakers. Have you ever gone back and talked to any of those studio executives? Now that were one point, five billion dollars later. No, not in that. Nothing that way. I know them all, but I also understand that position. I understand why they felt the way they felt that was if I were in their position, I probably do the same thing to be honest, it's tough. It's tough to say yes, to me are hard to make their hard to say yes to their hard. You know, people are countable, these students accountable shareholders has. So I completely understand where they're coming from. It was very unorthodox move to superhero movie like that. But you know it worked out in such a way that you could do it at a lower budget. I mean, they're all hopefully they'll always be at a lower budget. They should. You need all this money to make these things, especially if it's deadpool's kind of key features mouth. You know, it's, that's not an expensive tool. So you said somewhere that a third dead pool, movies, unlikely. Is that true or they're down the road, maybe unlikely in near. I think there'll be a number of movies that have dead pool, but I don't. I don't know that you. I don't know that I would wanna make. Another movie that was sort of exclusively about deadpool story because for deadpool to work, you have to take everything away from him and create a situation which he's the underdog. Otherwise he'd be just so you know, he's running his mouth so much so noxious if he had everything, he was the sort of in a good place, it would be troublesome so, and we can't just keep taking everything away from. So I love him as an on Tomba player. I love him as a character that sort of involves into a reluctant team member or or do at s- I love duets on screen mean you can have a great romantic duet or non romantic duet. So we'll see something in the works here. I leave things in the work I'm excited about. I'm really excited about, so that's that's that's to come. I continue to do court press for Hugh Jackman to to come back to no avail as not yet. Anyway, not as of yet. You'll get them. I think so too. I think I'll get him. Got God knows he's just been failing constantly. I mean, I my my, I have a, my daughter is is not even two, and I think she knows all the words to great show. My kids, two young kids to every word they enter rooms sliding. I'm thinking about opening a tiny tiny fully stocked hospital in my in my apartment. And by the way, that album is still like number two, and I year later it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable down there, and he's the nicest management. That's right. So. I think you touched on it. I think part of the reason deadpool works is not just the action, but your sense of humor. And so I'm curious where that comes from, was it being one of four boys as it from your parents being that kind of household? One hundred percent. I mean that my I wasn't gonna win any fights with my fists growing up. I've thrilled brother's my dad's ex cop. You know, I have one brother that's that's a in the Royal Canadian Mounted, police radio, tough guys. They're tough guys. I have one brother that six foot ten extends didn't know that six. Ten. And and one of the funniest guys you'll ever meet just a heart of gold gentle, giant. But but yeah, he's he's big. So you know, as a kid I developed sort of, I think I think my sense of humor was developed as a self defense mechanism. It was, you know, my father was was was very funny, man. He was a very smart man, but he was very tough. He was very scary, tough guy who's a huge presence. I mean, you know, when he walked into a room, the oxygen could leave like that. So so I learned to kind of diffuse. I used to refer to MRs skin covered landmine, you know, he was the guy that like you could just go off. So I used to learn to kind of diffuse that with with jokes with things as to make them laugh. And that was sort of how kind of. You know, I mean, it sounds more dramatically than it is, but it s I was kind of saying for my supper in a way, and it was. It was one of the best things that have happened to me as a kid. Really. It allowed me to cultivate aspects personality that maybe wouldn't have been cultivated had. I just had this sort of Mayberry upbringing. So what are your brothers think when they see as a movie star and they see only gin company and married to a beautiful movie star? Yeah, crap. They think they still see me the way they saw me as a little kid is just kind of a moving target. We're all pretty close. I gotta say we're lucky down. We've all had our fair share of like, you know, knife-fights in phone, booth type arguments, but we're all really damn close. We love each other very much, so they're great. They're super supportive n link, you know, same way I'm super supportive of their lives. I mean, each one of them is, is our incredible success in their own rights in their own fields and what they do, what they love each one of them does something that they love to do, you know. So I, yeah, we have pretty gained great relationships. It seems like you knew pretty age me an actor and probably a comedic actor in some way, the first night you arrived in LA when college didn't work out to LA, what happened that night? Well, I gotta go back just a little bit, which is that I was in. I was in Vancouver, I graduated high school. I had worked for a year or so driving forklift at groceries, groceries. Recalled Safeway, and I was working midnights ADM the graveyard shift and it was actually great. It was a great job for me, and I wish I did a lot of different jobs, but I always intermittently quit show business and go work. I worked as a waiter as a bus. Boy is all these different things. But I love that I started in that fashion because it for me at least it really instill some accountability, you know. And I'm saying really like how the liquor business and show business or not that different. They're built on relationships with funny, is that the the liquor business actually is the one that has a firmer grasp on accountability which you, you wouldn't think liquor business would because you know, in in in in show business, you can literally show up two days late for set and they'll still keep working with you which is just so disgusting wrong, but but I loved that had these jobs early because they taught me accountability. Nobody cares if why I'm laid, or you know why I'm not doing my job the right way. You're not. You're fired. So it was. It was good. I, I was glad that I had that. Before I went into show business. But yeah, then I went to college for forty, five minutes. I said, I'm going to wait another year and then I moved to Los Angeles to to hoping to improv comedy and. Roundings. Yeah, exactly. And and natural, you have to take their classes. You can't just show up and get on the main stage like idiot. I thought I could just show up and the main stage. So I had to had to kind of work my way up and I, I ran out of money just couldn't do it anymore. So I moved back to Vancouver or get an agent or something. So I, I met with agents and I said, just give me five auditions. If you can give me out and five promise, you'll come back with one and I got sick home sick, come on my fourth number four pre popular one to it did all right? Yeah. Well, it was a dip. It was a pilot didn't go, but it led to a great pizza place. It led to that that job, which is still one of my favorite job that ever had. Is that right? Live audience? You know, great people working with great people. I don't know maybe because it was so formative. It was the first one, but you wouldn't think. I don't know. You wouldn't think that somebody's worked in movies for the last twenty years would say sitcom was was, was my favorite job. It was. I met friends on that show that I'm still just as close with today as I was then, and I, it was just a. Beautiful job. You know, I love the live audience, do the warm up with the audience, and then I'll jump over the railing and they do the show and it was just for me, it was like a home. Is it true though? The first night you got to LA? Yeah. You had your car driven down from Vancouver. There was an incident with the vehicle there. My first night in Los Angeles was stated this little hotel in east Hollywood that was not tell you wanna go to, but it had a bad four walls and roof, and I stayed there. I parked my Jeep outside. I went inside to unload my bags and a little my bags came back and the Jeep was gone. Yeah, it's nice about it was. Yeah, it was the early Hollywood gift that's. Surprised or walking in a city that is designed only driver? Yeah, it was pretty. It was pretty brutal and then went for a little stroll and actually found it. I found the people away with no doors. One of the seats is ripped out this stripped at that quick. Honestly, it was like locusts took took a run. It was. I don't know how these guys were like genius. I mean they were really talented because they did this under an hour. I mean, I couldn't. I, I'm lucky if I get the car started in our like these guys, they took care of tip your cap to them. It was really amazing. I was fan definitely left a little fan letter. If I'm back drive around with those doors Nino. Remember those that you're l. Nino and it was just like, whoa, waterfalls would come through the car as driving addition. So it always have a change clothes in dive bag. So that could stay dry. No take one hundred percents dishes. I would have that. Oh, it's terrible. It's crazy. It was that was the hardest I've ever seen rain Los Angeles. So is it we're to after dead pool? I've heard a lot of people and I've read commentary. People say, dead pool is Ryan Reynolds breakthrough. His moment, it's it'll be his defining movie because to me, you've been doing TV and movies for twenty years almost before that you may have heard your people's sexiest man alive. Two thousand ten brought it up. I wanted to bring it up for you can if you want have some copies actually back. Have you just carry them with you made them into miniature cards? Actually. In two thousand cards. Around. You're well known, you've accomplished a lot. Do you feel like deadpool some kind of a breakthrough for you? Yeah. I mean, I never felt like I'd kind of arrived and I think if you do, you're kind of dead already, you know, I don't know. I never. I've always had those moments with this is the one. This is like the movie that will you know that I'll always remember impact, like movies are very, very difficult recipes to get right, you know, and it's. I, I realized that if you really hook into something early on you really understand it and feel it in your bones, it works and otherwise they can work financially, but they don't necessarily work in a way that's timeless or or last. So I don't know. Yeah, I was, but I'm not complaining. I listen, I, my expectations were very minimal. I just be a working actor puts you in a ninety nine percentile. You know, there's, there's very few people that that my peers that are have regular steady work. I've so many friends that are actors that you know struggled to find jobs, and it's it's very difficult to it's difficult industry. So it's ever changing. You know, it's always changing, so I'm not complaining at all. I, I was able to work pretty steadily for the last for twenty years prior to deadpool and and you know, hopefully I'll have a bit of work future. One of the many things I like about you besides the fact that I know guy who has gin company now first thing. Yeah, and we're friends. So you'll always in this is great. For the rest of just keep it coming is that you do have pinch me moments. You talked about how crazy this is to own a gin coming out. Crazy. It is to hear those numbers deadpool. Do you still do that? Do you still look around your life and go? How did this happen over? Sure. I mean, man, you you? I can't tell you how many guys I've known are seen that 'til. They're 'til, they're deathbed, they're, they're grabbing it things that don't matter. You know. So without gratitude, you're screwed. You know, you can't what? What's the point? If you can't stop and go like, wow, I'm really luckier grateful to have experience, and you know, still get to put my kids to bed each night or you know that often we were talking about that earlier. Most people don't have the option to kind of be present in their kids lives because they're having to work three or four or five jobs. So you know, I realize I'm really fortunate. And that doesn't mean I don't work my absolute azoff every second I can, but it also it also also recognize that it's I'm pretty damn lucky. So you know, I have a ton of pinch me moments. I hope I always have pinch me moments. It's, that's that's a huge part of this. If you don't, you're, you know, I sort of it's kind of sad away because you're missing out, you know, you're just always thinking the next next. What's next? You know. So. It seems to me from the outside that it's famous you and your wife. Both. Are you somehow this is relative normalcy of course, but you keep at least try to keep some normalcy with your family. Is that a priority for you? Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes, those is in line with the general edict of our lives. I mean, we're people that don't take ourselves too seriously. We have, you know, the the only people I really love to make fun of us. Well, yeah, and she's good attitude. Really good gives good. She said, yeah, it's pretty remarkable. She was mocking the trucks with your face on the side of them. There's an optical illusion there where my hand looks like it's it's three hundred miles wide. So yes, she was. She was I? Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I have. I I love. I love getting that opportunity to, you know, live like that and and I'm grateful for it. Maximum effort, your production company that's pretty cool comes out of a dead pool line or what do you have cooking there? We are working on stuff that we truly love. We're sort of a lot of the stuff we've doing over at maximum effort is kind of more in the world like deconstructing John RAs, which I love. I love. I love the dead pool in a certain sense. Deconstructs the superheroes genre away. It's sort of fun and playful, and you know, has has a good time with it. But I love the idea of doing that and others honors. So not just with deadpool with other other properties. So to produce your own stuff, right. What you wanna do really fun, you know? And I've throughout the entire process of deadpool since the first movie since before the first movie, since our marketing of the first movie, we always had a bit of fun with the studio. Know always sort of deadpool's is blaming the studio for staffer always like talking about the I like that. He lets that audience in or we could get that peek behind the curtain. But in reality, there's a lot of people that studio. One of the people that runs. Dama watts who are very close with. And I really, in fact, she went to the the rival high school to mine and being. Oh, really? Yeah, which is sort of weird now both under, but you know, I have great relationship with them. So I love being on the FOX lot. I love being having a chance to make something new for those guys once or twice a year for a while. And you know, I love, I love it. And then you're running out of here to Netflix movie, Michael bay. Is it stand there and things explode behind you? That's what hoping roar. I wait. Just going to my my my have, I'm sure I'll have a hell of a tan, my teeth twenty five percent wider. And this stuff's gonna blow up everywhere. It's gonna be great. I mean, Michael kind of he's a very interesting guy because I think people sort of associate him exclusively with carcases and things blowing up. But you know, he also he also blow things up in the sky, you know, and under that range he's, he's, he's wonderful. Actually, I've, I've. I've about to go work with them. I've, I've spoken them a few times heading into this. We had a couple of meetings and I was just blown away what he does is art. I mean, it really is he creates spectacle in a way that I, you know, since I was a kid of in Nov, so I'm excited too excited getting his sandbox and see how that is. So what you didn't hear there in the sit down portion of our conversations, Ryan, making me the drink before we sat down, he got behind the bar mixes those cocktail. So I could taste the aviation Jin. Here's our conversation while he was making me a beverage. Cheers. So we go. So we go. Nice, pretty good, right? It's really nice little soda. It's nice, here's aviation, and what am I tasted different than every other chasing a little bit less juniper, which is big for me. So it's not gonna taste like Christmas and a Cup. You're tasting one hundred years of magnificent tradition and just a little soda water line. That's that's how I like it. Jin actually, wanna taste this gin, whereas other gyms, I don't try to cover them up with with just about everything. I've even poor air freshener. John's, but this one is pretty amazing. You get back there and the distillery and watch the process at all and not to get not even not even remotely. No. It just a pretty. I love it. Just I'm just the up front. I fan of it. I would never do that though. I would. I would muck the entire process up. It would be terrible. I'm not that guy where I'm like, we're going to see like beautiful sepia shops of me with like camera, flares kinds of things. As I walked down the district lines of testing each Jin if it's been barrel aged, probably because it's not barrel ages gin. So you also going to be that suddenly giving suggestions on the form. What are we going to selves? Well, actually, actually forces people to want to drink. Maybe it's not a bad. What did Blake say, when you said Honey, I just bought a gin company. The first key to a strong marriage is to not sort of speak in the past tense about something like that. I wanna buy. Gin come right. Even though I already bought, it was done the papers. No, she was. She was support. She was into it. She she, she, she loves it. She doesn't actually drink show says, I don't drink, but if I did, it wouldn't be so. No. But yeah, it's what does she? She actually does have a good slogan. It's I don't drink and if I didn't, it would be gin. That's okay. Mic some sort of none of it really at this point it seems this is actually my second. Lightweight, forgetting basic quotes. She's also seems a little bit exhausted by the promotion for it driving around seeing you're seeing that the seen my face on trucks is new for her. Yeah, it's when my kids chase after. Kids running after Jin dry. Don't even the first time of understood like those parents that are UCS sort of malls with like the long leash. No up just as the tin Druk good. Look for any of us. Thank you for having me. Appreciate my thanks again to Ryan Reynolds for great conversation, just great. Great guy is what seems in public on top of his work with aviation American gin rightly currently shooting six underground Michael bay movie, which will be released net flicks next year m I thanks all of you as always for tuning into the Sunday sit down podcast if you like what you hear, check out our library, extended conversations with all my guests and don't forget to subscribe to hear new episodes. Every Sunday, of course, be sure to tune into Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. Thanks for tuning in clicking Sunday sit down podcast talked again next week.

Ryan Ryan Ryan Reynolds Jin Los Angeles Vancouver Clooney Hollywood Blake lively London Hugh Jackman juniper Portland Jin Canada Portland John RAs Nino George Randy Gerber Portland
Kevin McKenna on Characters, Plot, and Themes of In the First Circle

EconTalk

1:16:19 hr | 2 years ago

Kevin McKenna on Characters, Plot, and Themes of In the First Circle

"The. Welcome to econ talk part of the library of economics and liberty. I'm your host. Russ Roberts of Stanford university's Hoover Institution. Our website is econ- talk dot org, or you can subscribe comment on this podcast and find links and other information related to today's conversation also find archives. We listened to every episode we've ever done going back to two thousand and six or Email addresses mail it econ talk dot org. We'd love to hear for. Today is September six, twenty. And this is a bonus edition of econ talk. Two of our book club reading in the first circle. The first uncensored edition by Alexander associates in with university of Vermont, professor of Russian language literature and culture, Kevin McKenna, Kevin, welcome back econ talk. Yes, thank you very much. In our first episode, we talked about social since life and the political and social climate he lived through today. We're gonna turn the book itself wouldn't let listeners. Now you can talk about the book with your fellow readers and listeners on Facebook, Facebook, and on the contact sub. Read it, we've created. We will have links to those opportunities posted on the page for this phone. As addition also want to say, they're probably be some spoilers in our conversation today you, you might wanna wait till you finish the book before listening and having said that for me, the plot twists are not that important to join the book in my view, but you may feel otherwise. So before warned. Let's start with Kevin this star with the main characters in the book, and you've singled out three in the first episode we talked about, will you call the polyphonic nature of the book there? Many, many characters woven together, but there are main characters who take up more time and who wants us to understand we're deeply who were they? Sure. Well, the first so-called main character. I think the one that most identifies with social needs in himself would be glib years. Give, as we know has been arrested serving in World War Two. Eventually, he ends up in this crevasse or that is research camp on the edge of Moscow and over the course of the novel. Glib is searching as was the case for social himself. At this particular age give is searching for a number of answers to the meaning of life. We know he's engaged in in kind of spirit of towel west to Lhasa Fyvie and skepticism early on, and he turns to to other characters who could call refer to as central characters. One would be, of course his philosophical communist friend Ruben live Ruben Iran. Manically Rubiun is a strong devoted communist believer. This is Iran because the fictional live Ruben was one of social Neeson's or his character that is Rubin's character is based on one of socially sins, closest friends while he was in the gulag camp. And the third character solo again has a quite different philosophy from that of Ruben. While Ruben is a dedicated devoted communist solo Ghion, pronounce that slowly has a very different philosophy of life, and he Celo Jin tries throughout the early part of the novel to influence Gibbs, understanding an approach to life. Celo Jin is essentially the master of himself. He does not give in to any philosophy. He does not give into certainly communism. He Celo Jin believes that he himself that the talented man or person themselves in life should dictate and control their own. Futures their own fates. And as we're going to come to understand fairly early on in the novel Salou Jin is going to make a bargain with the system whereby he as one of the engineers, the prisoner engineer vex in the camp. He is going to go ahead and to cooperate because he has Celo Jin has. Discovered dec- Krit to what has been making their whole found a logic research so difficult and in doing so solo Jin eventually is going to be able to leave the camp as a prisoner. He'll be able to return to Moscow to live in freedom. You'll be given untold wealth, etc. Etc. Etc. Now, I don't wanna get carried away. This goes into one of the major themes of the novel, but I would say that those three central characters near Sion Ruben and solution. Gin up certainly occupied the first half of the novel with the various philosophic and ethical discussions. I would probably add the character of speed dome. He's the peasant. He's nearly blind live. He's Bligh. Signed in one eye and half blind in the other on he is older than the other three. And he insulted these since creation essentially represents the wisdom, the home spun wisdom of the Russian peasant. And in fact, while throughout the novel Gabe near Sion alternates between turning to Ruben and turn into Celo Jin for answers to the questions that he an has about life Altima tely he's going to turn to spirit dawn, and this comes a little bit later in the novel, and perhaps you and I can discuss that at a later point. Yeah, it's it's, I think it's actually my favorite scene in the book, but there are many. So it's it's hard to. And let's just also talk about the overall plot. The book opens. Very differently from its original edition of which was I think about a doctor dealing with a medical issue. Instead, this uncensored edition opens with a Russian high ranking Russian bureaucrat, trying to leak information to an American or Canadian counterpart in order to Lert them too. Soviet atomic bomb efforts. And, and that's the first five pages of the novel. For a while. We kind of it kind of disappears for while we're, we're not quite sure how how're if that's going to come back into the plot. But of course there's a phone call and we don't know for while whether it's recorded or not, but that phone call becomes a centerpiece of the last, oh, maybe third of the novel and. Why do you think he chose this? Why? Let's not talk about why censor the plot. That's pretty clear. I can understand that right went. Is this the plot that he wanted to write about. Essentially, he wasn't social nation was not satisfied with the success of the baligian. This is the name of the state security officer kind of young diplomat in his early thirties, social needs and was not in his censored version, which is the version that appears in nineteen sixty eight socially soon was not satisfied with his success in both the character of below jn himself as well as the success of the plot line. In his censored version, social needs an censored version. As you noted, we have a fictional event were below Jin places a telephone call to a friend of the family doctor. And this all deals with essentially, again, a fictional event. One of the problems with the first printed version, which would actually be the the initial version of the censored novel. One of the problems with that is that there are eight chapters that social Easson head had to delete and they allow those chapters particularly in the central part of the novel in the first circle as opposed to the first circle. Those chapters were deleted and they, they create and embellished and folk. Focus on blue jeans, character as well as the central plot line social needs and goes to this factual, even he as a Russian. He as a writer is very keen on fact, and the what what may seem to us in the two thousand and nine translation in the first circle what may seem to us as an extraordinary difficult to believe event that is a Russian diplomat calling the American embassy in Moscow to warn the American embassy of a plot of Soviet in New York City to receive the secret plans for the atomic bomb from the Americans while that sounds ludicrous, it is entirely factually based. On the Kavala incident that takes place indeed in nineteen forty, nine in New York City. As a reader of the novel, I would say, social needs sins. Treatment of the factual event is infinitely better than what I see to be his unsuccessful treatment of the fictional calling of a Russian doctor. But I found surprising about that decision. And I, you know, as an American I might, I don't know how a Russian would of the day of the time would view at a Soviet citizen, reading it in the nineteen sixties seventies eighties or today. But what I found fascinating about that is the is the linchpin of the of the story is that we're deeply mashed in the in the Cheraga with the ethical in world dilemmas of of near Zhan Ruben Salaheddin and they talk about him all the time. Some they don't talk about, obviously because they can't. But, but we hear their interview dialogue often, and we'd understand how the difference between say Rubin and between and inertia in how the commitment to communism for Reuben is a affects his decision making. And so on. We understand that Salahuddin is tempted by rewards to to make progress on this technology that ultimately is going to help the regime enslaved people and harm them in a press them. And so we all understand this horrible central dilemma at the heart of the of the of the novel. And yet the Volodin phone call which starts the novel. It's, that's we, that's treason. He is. He is betraying. The Soviet Union and would impress, and there was a debate within the book. Of course, the. The characters in SRI debate, whether they should rely on the Americans where the Americans were forced for good, whether the Soviets are evil, you know the the power in in the party. So they're all daily with that, but but socialization creates this character at the center of the novel in the background volt the ludden who who is betraying his his country, weakening his country, keeping his country trying to keep his country from getting access to technology that allow them to compete against the Americans. And I found that to be a fascinating decision and major spoiler alert. So if you're if you want to stop listening here, you may major spoiler he gets caught and his and it's a brutal experience. And in fact, we know it's going to be much more brutal than what we observe in in the novel itself and. Are we supposed to root for them feel sorry for him. And if I were Soviet, would I feel differently if as an than I do as an American, I found that part very interesting crave a lot of tension that it didn't didn't have to could've just been a much less complicated crime. Russ, Russ, let me in address some of the points that you're making their because there's something that you're missing. Very, very key to this novel. Without a doubt your entire wrecked. This act was treasonous, if and when. The login were to be captured and say, tried for having made this treasonous act. He would either be sent directly to gulag camp or even more. I think he'd be executed in the Lubyanka prison after being tortured. Yeah, that's right. And what you what you missed there. If you do readers, look believe it's perhaps the closing paragraphs of chapter one. If I'm correct, I unfortunately left my copy of the novel up at my office on campus. I have mine with me. Good. There's a line that says, this is these are. Blue jeans, kind of inner thoughts, and he says to himself, if a man cannot live according or in concert with the dictates of his conscience, how can we possibly live? How can we possibly call ourselves human beings? Now, I've I've entirely misquoted that says, I don't have the book here in front of me, but that is essentially one of the central three the's throughout this entire novel in the censored version. That is eighty six, five. I think nine chapters shorter than the novel that your listeners, our reading this question appear. Here's just about in every single central character of the novel. Alternately, of course, the peasant spirit dome is going to provide the answer to that question up throughout the entirety of the novel velour. Jin is on a search. He is on an adventure of sorts. As you already indicated, while the novel opens with the login, the final chapters of the novel will end with the lowest. He indeed is going to be caught and we see that he Beligian in those closing chapters commences a life at the point where we have been meeting the ab- near tying, of course, the two characters together. Further tying the two characters together, of course, is this theme of conscience a Hugh. Human being in social nations, mind in his belief in his character, his soul. We human beings have to be able to live consistently with the terms of conscience in our own lives were below Jin not to take this act where he to continue to live the kind of cigarettes life that he has been leading all of his life. He understands that he essentially would not remain human. He would be giving into the system. So while Russ you're entirely correct that this is a treasonous act. It's an act that he has to undertake in order to remain a human being in order to be able to live with his conscience. I totally agree with that. I don't. I understand that when I called a treasonous act, obviously treason against an immoral regime can be virtuous thing is a negative term, but I just wondered whether. The reader in in the Soviet Union in nineteen sixty eight or or today had would have some unease about others, say differently. Zack's in the sheriff, go who work on the technology that on voice recognition and and voice cryptography there. We sympathized tremendously with them because they're caught between a rock and hard place that no human being should be should be should have to deal with very, you know, very similar to moral dilemmas in in in Auschwitz and elsewhere where people were put in. There's no attractive solution. There's nothing you're forced to do something immoral or die. And often the immoral act that you're doing is has great as to it in the sense that when here in this rush, get something gray about it. Obviously, there's nothing good about giving the Soviet. Regime more ability to. As eavesdrop and and punish people. So it's not fun to work on that, but but I would think that there is a certain level which betraying your country in in this in this particular in the middle of the Cold War, unless they let me ask it, let me say two different way. I understand that many Soviet citizens during the Cold War, routed quietly for the Americans in the west, but some of the must have had some his giving 's about that. And I just, I find it interesting that the book doesn't come to grips with that and gives us a moral dilemma at its center. That is this a little more complicated to me than the sheriffs Kaz occupants, moral dilemmas. Well, I think you might be over emphasized the, let's say, the number of Soviet citizens during the Cold War who were rooting for the Americans. With respect to the space race between the two countries. Indeed, I did find that to be the case I could go on and on for that great length, but I don't think it's all that germane to the novel, but the during the Soviet period today, by the way, the Russians in twenty eighteen are fiercely patriotic. You're very good question about how would the readers today look at salons. I apologize at below Jin's treasonous, act of calling the embassy. Is good for this reason. I would say that those Russians today reading this novel who indeed have found that comfort place in their own conscience, they would agree with below Jin, but I can assure you the over wellm ING. Vast majority of Russians today pretty much by the way the same for I would say the overwhelming number of American citizens today have not reached that comfort zone between the way that we lead our lives. And the success or failure in its relationship to our conscience are we motivated primarily as is social needs? And of course, the of Nansen are we motivated primarily by our conscience, our duty to our conscience or like the overwhelming, vast majority of Russians and Americans, we motivated more so by personal interests might have to do with a career or getting ahead, etc. I totally agree with you night and just to be clear, I think village John's act is a heroic act, but I'm raising the question whether others might might not have felt that way of some some would and some would not. Let's I wanna ask you another question about conscience, which I found fascinating of which is, and we touched on his very briefly. I may have confused some readers, some listen. Last episode in real life. Social sin divorces. His wife on the grounds that it's very hard for her to be married to a prisoner. So common experience very. And I think I asked you, we left at hang, I think they remarry. Is that correct? They do. I believe this is his first wife own. He divorces and they remarry. Once he gets out of the camp, not right away, right. Really, I think that they remarry somewhere around nineteen fifty. Seven could be off unday year, but it was toward the end of the fifties. But for me, one of the most poignant. Unbearable. Parts of this book are the romantic and sexual relationships between the prisoners and the women in their lives. Some of whom are staff members, some of whom, of course their their wives back home. And you know the, the very the scene as wanna mention this in passing. You're giving the advice as a writer to write what you know about. So she didn't. Sin is drawing, you know, so deeply. When he's describing the corridors and the stairwells you don't, you don't feel like he's trying to imagine them. You feel like you're with him in those situations and the scene where where the prisoners have. I think it's how long do they have with their wives? Is it? Oh, gosh, I wonder minutes, ten minutes. I think it's thirty minutes with a guard year once a year with a guard who's who's who's looming over you not giving you a moment and you can't touch. There's something just unbearably sad about this and and the social character in the novel Gleb has a sexual opera tune ity that he turns down and we also get to watch his his wife, the gloves, wife have a potential romantic or sexual relationship. And Gleb does the honorable thing. He honors his marriage, he forgoes the the sexual opportunity and it's it's really an extraordinary. I found it very powerful given that. We don't know what what soldiers in did in the camps. Romantically personally, we don't know what he did ethically, but what I found extrordinary about this, one of the Benny things I've found extreme the book is that it was clear that this is what he wanted to be social sin, whether in the form of Gleb, whether he actually lived such a high code in in Israel, life experiences, we don't know or I don't think we know, but it's clear that in his fictional ideal, he was he was an honor roll man in virtually every dimension. It's really short. It's such a Heroux ick story for so many of the of the characters, but for him, especially, well. Social needs Sen. the man, not the writer. All has acknowledged that he he was not as comfortable with the way that he. And the hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers during World War Two conducted themselves. As they approached essentially Germany, he does not. Or he did not take pride in what his fellow soldiers any, and he himself were doing. I would not go so far as to say that he failed to to live up to his ideals. Soldier needs is perhaps in in my and I can't think of anyone any writer or any person who succeeds in living up to his ideals more so than he himself does. He have occasional failures, yes, he did, but I don't think that those that is the failures of social needs in the person as opposed to the fictional world that he creates in his novels. I find his fictional world far more interesting than his real world and that Saint quite a bit because his real world was. But let's to the Stalin chapters there four, four or five chapters on Stalin, which I enjoyed just tremendously. I found them credibly, entertaining, funny in a in a dark way, of course. Sure, and fascinating as psychological portrait of of a monster, but you could cut him out of the book. They play no direct role. In fact, I'm going to add one more aspect of the book which tie these together, which is the another. One of my favorite chapters was the the troika of liars of course, where we say these bumbling over promising stressed out Soviet bureaucrats and military officials law. Why? And over promise and the psychological insights are just just unbelievable the the, the temptations of in those settings or just they're beautifully portrayed, but you don't need them. So talk about what they add, say, need them. They don't. If they were literally cut, if those were the chapters you cut, you would lose any of the plot, but there's something else. So why do you think they're they're other than to indulge our joint of them, which they're spectacular, but why are they there? I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth right now. You've made a very good observation in that many, many, many literary critics, both Russian literary critics and those from the United States in Europe, etc. Such a, a lot of literary critics feel that the Stalin chapters are unsuccessful that indeed they could be deleted. Speaking. Now, out of the other side of my mouth, I would not agree. And the reason I don't agree is that those chapters nineteen Twenty-three not only do we let say American voyeur readers who encountered this scathing indictment of the psycho pathology of Stalin himself. What we failed to to recognize is that like the Zack's the prisoners in the first circle of hell, styling himself fines by last two chapters nineteen to twenty three realizes that he himself resides in his own circle of hell, a hell of, let's say, what of self deception or a hell of. Ego were fear of doubt of suspicion. He's fearing and suspecting and resenting Lenin who is now decades dead. And we see this this psychological pathology of Stalin himself where he has imprisoned himself in his own personal circle of hell. And by extension, I would say, as as you initially indicated the what the management, the head of the military departments and the research departments they to find themselves in a first circle of hell, like the Zach prisoners. For example, when chapter ten when entitled the resolutions when the two prisoners grant. Emba weaned go to visit Colonel. You're conus and they are able to exercise fire greater freedom than the head of the institute your cone of can. I think it's Pracha Cup who says, and I quote you need me and I don't need you. He goes on to shout at your colonels generals, they've got a lot to lose, but the man from home you've taken. Everything is no longer in your power. He is free. Again, this is a direct quote from that chapter and by extension. We note that the deputy minister of state security Civis Jonah, as well as the head of the special equipment section of the ministry of state security. Major General row us Kaluka and finally, the chief of operations at the institute, the Colonel of engineers Yakubov. They're going to have to meet with and lie to Stalin's minister of state security general of a coup of in the same way that the zeks have have lied to your of of their progress of. Yeah, yeah. In other words, the extension of Dante's metaphor of hell is very rich in this novel. And in response to your your original observation, I would keep the Stalin chapters because we see that at the very top at the pinnacle of this triangular power relationship Stalin. Obviously he too is a prisoner. And he's also in some what you know. The other metaphor, the came to my mind besides the for circle is is a web, a spider web of evidence trapped in struggling to get free and Stalin. In some senses, the Weaver of the web, he's the spider at the centre, but he's in tangled in it. Also it so many so many ways in the, you know, there's another chapter you could do without in in theory, which is the extraordinarily brilliant chapter where the there's a propaganda lecture, Ron, Stalinist theory. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it has no content to the lecture, but of course it it seems grand and important, and we watch as the as the attendees drift off right notes to each other. Just like in a bad school setting and reminded me is a very feels weird, baking this contemporary reference. But it reminded me a lot of the the series called the wire where which is about a Baltimore, David Simon's brilliant creation of the in the first season of the drug war. And you see the the different characters, the drug addicts, the dealers, the police, and the bureaucrats about the police mall in meshed in this system trying to do their jobs, get ahead, make money get promoted, and it's a very symbiotic relationship akin to you. You need me. I don't need you the only other, unfortunately, many of the characters need each other and they find themselves in what is essentially an immoral landscape. There's really no gonna be no easy way to to go forward in line with ones conscience. And in that series, one things that effective about is you don't have to root for after a while. He starts sympathize with the drug dealers just like any other business trying to. But then again, you got people dying from drug overdoses, and then you've got the police doing brutal things, but also trying to do what they think is the right thing. You know, it's very, it's a, it's similar in the sense that the system itself has a set of incentives that are relentless, and I think that's a better way to describe what's going on here the red than just say, it's it's symbolic. The the incentives built into the system are entrap everyone. In this case. Does acts want to provide the technology because that way they might get free the bureaucrats want to make style unhappy so they can get a promotion, solemn wants to be free of his worries and fears of being over overthrown. He wants to have more power hard to believe, but he does and given those which of course, Stalin has created in the system itself has has emerged from his paranoia and brutality. Everyone is then entangled in different ways mesh with each other in in the those brutal incentives. And of course, much of the book is the heroism of disasters who refused to respond to those in Santa's. It's just an important point 'economics we always assume people respond to incentives. And of course, most of the time they do often they do in some dimension. They almost always do, but sometimes something calls with a higher incentive that of conscience and. I think that triumph of people. Refusing to betray their conscience in return for what seems to be gained is really is, as you mentioned, private Email would be is really the essential lesson of the book that that there there are times when when we forgo benefit for greater for greater good, and it's just such a poignant powerful example spinning off of what you just said. Let me what not kind of ironic -ly. We see how those people in the not on their primary, the prisoners zeks, those who are in their own first circle of hell. Business. Quite creatively and engaging -ly social needs an indicates that those occupants of the first circle of hell. Tend to be far freer than those who occupy the first circle power, whether it's a Kuma historically accurate. A person. He's not a fictional creation or whether it Stalin himself, and I would say next to or maybe alongside conscience the theme of being free and for a writer like social needs. As well as the prisoner social. It's the theme of freedom. How is it a? Can a prisoner, be free and what social nation I think succeeds doing in this novel. And really all of his fiction is to indicate that prisoners. In life or in the Soviet Union can actually be freer than those people living outside the camps. You may want to delete what I'm about to to share kind of personal experience, but let me go ahead if that's okay with you, please to share to share an experience that I had Okasha would have been about nineteen about nineteen Eighty-one. I'm going to all details, but I was living for about a year and a half in in Ben Leningrad. And I was a great lover of jazz. And I happened into a jazz bar in Leningrad and I met a man Zack prisoner who had been arrested in nineteen seventy six and sentenced to gulag camp. His was up on the Arctic circle essentially for mooning the president of the United States. I believe this would have been perhaps Jimmy Carter way back in nineteen seventy six. But at any rate I met this fella's I'm Sasha, no last names intended and Sasha could not have been more excited to meet an American whom he naively felt would take Sasha's story back to the Washington DC. And his story was essentially this. He and I spent a night together essentially listening to my listening to his account of what it was like to live in this camp for five or six years, and it was an awful story. I don't need to rehearse it. We can just read social need since novel, but I remember how he ended the story. He said we were on probably about the seventh floor of a hotel. We're sitting in a window open window and he said, look at those people down there on the street. This was now five AM and granted women were pouring in from all corners of that part of the city with their milk jugs essentially to have their jugs milk jugs filled up with milk, blah, blah, blah, and looking out of this window on the seventh floor, behold tell it looks like ants crawling around. He said he said, this is life in the Soviet Union outside of the camps. There's no way in the. World that these people are free. He said, I, for six years, living in the camp was far freer than these people that were looking at down on the ground, and this is what, in my opinion, social needs. Sin is trying to capture and to share and to pass on to his readers, the value the meaning of freedom of matched a course with his is great thoughts on living in concert with ones conscience. That's very well said I wanted to to that one is it reminds me of Viktor Frankl's man's search for meaning book. I recommend, which is a similar theme idea that that physical suffering is not really the measure of of our or physical pleasures, not the measure our wellbeing, and it's a thing we might come back to or any contact sometime it's deep, obvious deep philosophical issue. But the other point I want to make is that, you know, I think sows sows Vincent hammers on that relentlessly in the loss to the idea that almost that it reminds me of friends of ours who had two kids and lived in a two bedroom apartment. The two boys boys shared the apart shared a bedroom when they went to visit a friend in the suburbs that lived in enormous house. One of the kids said to the other, I feel sorry for them each kid to sleep by himself, and and I think. I wonder how much social since rationalizing this this unbearable or horrific deprivation that that he has to go through that his life is ripped from him that his the pleasures of married life and normal society are unavailable to him and he stuck in this horrible. I circle of hell better than the other ones, but he's stuck in this circling. So one thought I had of course is that this is the way he deals with it is that he says, I, it's actually better not just not so bad. It's actually better. I feel sorry for this poor people struggling as they did in the Soviet Union to get there for the day and to just go through the the say, two different way. Daily life under communism was was somewhat degrading. It did not have the opportunities that that we're blessed with that. So many people have today. And so he was right to some. But you also under ROY psychologically, just trying to make himself feel better at the same time. It's obviously true that any captures us so well that his life in the president was like being a philosophy seminar, and I think it was being, I don't think it's just artistic. I think I think the conversations he had there. Just like wartime is often a false horror is is a transformative event for the people who report since arrive. So it's not like he would say, oh, everyone should have the thrill of being in a camp. He saying in the camp, you are forced to come to grips with with meaning and philosophical unethical issues. The other point I wanted just make quickly, which I thought is as fiction. Motif is just extra during the book. Is that. The real gulag looms over the book, the characters who at the end go off to the real gulag have to leave the sheriff who trundle off in the meat wagon, which is unbelievably. It goes bumptious mentioning it as it's gr- driving around town and deceiving the passage by who see it and think it must be food delivery. It's it's actually human beings going off too far worse fate than the the first circle of hell Cheraga they and and voting who we see is basically the first night in prison. The worst and even more horrific things that await those people are never described. They're never. They're never made vivid. We can read about them in his other books. Obviously, we read about them in the book gulag, which is non-fiction. We read about them in when day in the life I've into Nisa vich which isn't a real camp. But in this book he makes the conscious clearly conscious decision not to embellish. He lets he doesn't doesn't explain that to make us feel even sadder. He lets it be unspoken. I think that just an unbelievably interesting fictional decision. Well, I could not agree with you more and you're touching upon something that I believe is very important for us. Americans reading social since novels to understand when his when his works were first being translated into. In English and becoming accessible to us here at the end of the sixties throughout the seventies early eighties and so on. And so on. Typically, we Americans thought also needs is a genius, and we thought that he was so good because essentially he was revealing to the world the same of Stalin and tragedies of the of the camps gulag camps. What I find to be an and this is going to triangle it back to the early part of your last observation. But I find to be the genius of social eight sins fiction. His novels. Is not that he reveals what Stalin did or what life in the camps was like, it's his artistry. Yeah, the manner in which he does this and what I mean by the manner or his artistry is precisely what you were referring to the success. I think if we go back to one day in the life of Yvonne, Denisa vich those of your listeners who have read that novel already, who may want to in the future. Your listeners are and you and I are absolutely astounded by the horror of this one day twenty four hour period out of whatever it is. Three thousand three hundred sixty four days and what social needs in does he never in the novella Denisa or in this novel? In the first circle, he never screams out his pain. Yes, the pain of his prisoners or his observation. It's the under statement. Yep, that is the main artistic device. I would say that social needs some employs in his writing. He leaves it up to us his readers to essentially scream our heads off. Yeah. But never once. Does he or his business do so. Let's turn to the set pieces in the book that reminded may of Dostoevsky. There's a lot that reminded us. Yes. Can we talked about this last time and. The other thing I mentioned last time was the. The Faulkner Nobel prize line about the great fictions about the human heart in conflict with itself. I think you're up survey that I think he, he made it very, it's very clear in his novels that social sin. I didn't want to write a bunch of books about stones crimes. He wanted. Also he did, but he also wanted to write about the human heart in conflict with the self. And that's really what makes this work that that understatement so powerful turn to the set pieces there. Two, there's two chapters that struck me as sort of stand alone. You could. You could publish a short stories. Worthy to, but to leave out because they're so self contained. One is the trial of prince gore and the other is the Buddhist smile. The Buddhist smile. It's the Buddha's smile. Buddha, possessive. Buddha's smile is again, a heartbreaking glimpse at deception, and where I mean, it just it's, it's hilarious, and it's heartbreaking at same time talking about both those if you can and what. It's almost in a way reminded me that he was channeling. Does the s gay or does he does the same thing? I'll have a chapter. This sort of stands by itself and many of those to have skis chapters like that have been republished on their own. So talk about the influence of have skin Stalin. And I mean, hunt associates and the and those two chapters, if you could. Sure. Well, the way I would begin, my comments is to refer back to the very last document that soldier needs in wrote the day before he was kicked out exiled from the Soviet Union. And it's it's a letter which is called live, not by law is live not by lies, and this is something very important medically as well as personally to social Nate's in the writer and see person. And in the chapter Buddha's. Smile, the deception, the ally, it's all ally and, and it's what he's in a certain sense watches. He does with the meat wagon at the very last two pages of the novel. There's the reality of a bystander on a street in the center of Moscow looking at a Frenchman looking at a wedding food wagon going by, and he says, oh, how nice the the Soviets are trying to get deliveries of their. Food to their citizens while it's just the opposite. It's a meat wagon in the sense that some poor prisoners who have been just kicked out of the Russia, the research institute and there now bound for hell there for a circle that they experienced in the Arash good research institute long gone, yeah, they're going to the worst circles of hell. Now buddhis- smile of social needs. Sin was very aware and not pleased with and we can even look later to his Nobel prize address or to his speech at the Harvard commencement social Niessen was never comfortable with what he saw to be. The United States is in ability to see. The evil of the Soviet Union as it really was. And certainly Mrs. Roosevelt and her little delegation visiting one of the camps and falling into the trap, a Jimmy into the trap of believing everything that they're Soviet hosts are showing them. That is the fresh clothing change of clothing. The good males elaborate meals, just books for exploring that throughout Ron and a bible. That's right, and they've prepared that is a system has prepared the prisoner. So well, MRs Roosevelt inquires of one of them I'm here representing the United States. Is there anything you prisoners here in the Soviet Union? Would like to share with me that you would like Americans to understand? And the question, of course, that one of them asks or. Most states, he says, were very much upset by the issue of slavery and racism in the United States. Well, clearly, this is not at all an issue that Soviet prisoners in gulag camp are concerned about this is what they have been told to say. And of course, we see the naievety of MRs Roosevelt. Essentially through social needs. Sins is of this is yet another instance of Americans not understanding anything about actual life in the Soviet Union. This official event is far as I can tell. I wanna Roosevelt anno- actually, she did know. She factual went to say she did visit a camp now, frankly, as I recall this was not a camp in which social needs them was present. But he heard the story from one of his fellow camp-mates an experience that he had had at at a different gulag camp. I could be wrong about that, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find any Stoorikhel record of that. So if there is we'll put a link to it doesn't matter. What is what's? What's true is that Americans starting with with Lennon visited. Soviet Union and brought back low and reports that were terribly inaccurate, New York Times reporters, one bullet surprises for reports that were literally lies. They hid the famine in the crane destiny new Ukraine. And it's Walter Durante is is it's, it's despicable that that prizes number in my view, this never been revoked, but people lied knowingly on behalf of the Soviet Union as well as unknowingly. And this is an unknowing. Naive impression. Same things happened, of course, with with Castro in Cuba and others. But that chapters just just spectacular. The trial of prince gore is talk about what that represents. It's genius absolute genius while it might seem initially as what does this have to do with the gulag camps of the twentieth century? It's a wonderful fat tire, essentially talking about how it is that a, what would he be? Probably a thirteenth century. Russian prints by the name of eager, how it is that prince eager. Comes a captive of IB leave that the it's a tribe of Mongol invaders. At any rate. The twentieth century court trial is is to try the thirteenth century. Prince eager for his failure to live up to the dictates of the Soviet system. So it is a huge comical chapter. In which social needs brilliantly satirizes the Soviet system of law. This extra talking about print sake or because, well, what's wrong with that? It's it's eight hundred seven hundred years ago. They're really talking about the presence and the talking about the president in the sense that that famous what is article fifty eight. The criminal code article under which essentially all of the gulag prisoners were tried and found guilty. This chapter essentially is bringing prince eager to trial under article fifty eight. Yeah. And I just wanna mentioned. The most chilling asides in the book which is just a passing remark is when they, they can't decide which of the two potential suspects are guilty on the voice recording. They have. One of them, of course, is, we know is the real person. It's voting the other. I forget his name. Some other bureaucrat in the state security office suggests says, oh, well, we'll find something on him to don't worry, don't don't. Don't feel bad because all of us are guilty of something we, we didn't maybe smile sufficiently. That's when Stalin passed by or whatever it was. So in fact, Ruben a very, very enjoyable, prominent likable character, not withstanding his marriage to communism Ruben at towards the end of the novel. When. When the login has been separated as indeed the person who made the telephone call. Ruben begins to experience a little bit of sense of guilt saying, oh gosh, Nile this fellow. He doesn't well below. Jin is going to be sentenced and subject to the kind of life that we live here in the gulags and then he thinks, well, no, the positive side of this is that the other four people who were accused are going to be pre and it. It's an ironic kind of. Notion on social need since part. Of how it is that we are one can kind of shift gain guilt or blame to suit our consciences. Yeah, it's. Extrordinary talk about. I'd like to. Like to close with with some insights about spirit on the. So he's half blind and. If I remember he's by the way I read the book this summer which was wonderful that I that I found time for a don't have. I didn't have time to read it again before the conversation. I suspect you've read it more than once. Is that correct? Yes, I follow the nobody me Leafs on reading. He made a very famous statement when he was teaching literature class at Cornell University into the nineteen fifties. And one of his graduate students made the observation that I like Ross, in fact, read this novel during the summer, but I haven't read it again since and I not really following what you're saying. And the bulk of responded by saying, reading a novel. There is no such thing as reading a novel. Novels can only be re-read, re read and reread. So that is kind of a humorous injection on my part. You're not having reread it yet. I can pretty much guarantee you will read stop to, but my memory is spirit on who I would mispronounce worse. But then that spirit on is he's sweeps up. He's the guy who's is that right? Because he sweet the snow sweeper, he's he's the snow sweeper. He's unlike the genius of physicists and chemists and mathematicians, etc. Etc. Who populate this research institute spirit dome is more or less sent there by mistake to the institute. And he ends up being is he never even finished high school, much less college. He's not an intellect, he's not an intellectual, but he was his wife. Is he is listed a sense to sweep floors and to sweep the snow shovel the snow outside between two points in this camp and in relation to that Salou Gideon and Uson come out to work that is two to shovel the snow with spirit dome as often as they can so that they can carry out and conduct the kinds of philosophical conversations that they so love to do. And you mentioned earlier that spirit on stands in for the sort of the wisdom of the peasant. And before we started taping, you mentioned a proverb of his explain what the short that is the we have seen how it is that Nieta jn early on in the novel season self as a follower of towel wisdom. He sees himself a little bit later as a skeptic, and then for hundreds of pages he's turning to. Rubin is friend for kind of answers on the meaning of life, and he alternates interning to excuse me. Trying to say fifty dome, but I don't want to say speed slugged in right solo. Thank you friends solution. And finally, let's say, roughly at the last third of the novel. Realizes that neither communism of Ruben or the kind of will the power of the wheel of the intellect, which characterizes solution. Neither of these two has in life satisfies. NIA version in terms of providing the answers to the meanings of life. And so he turns indeed to spirit on late late in the novel, and he in a long lead in paragraph, he says, essentially, we see all the suffering and crime and the. The people who have been slaughtered in our country by Stalin, etcetera, etcetera. And he said, tell me what is right? What is truth in all of this and spitting dome responds with a very, very famous and yet. Each old wisdom, Russian wisdom, Russian proverb by saying, how would I try to say Tintin by saying something to the effect. You want to say Russian for source? Well, now in the English part of the wolf hound, the wolf hound is right. The man who hunts men is wrong. And what what this proverb means is that the nature of a wolf out in the wilderness can't blame him when that's right. It's it's by his own internal nature that he the wolf hunts. But he says, when a man hunts the lives and souls of his fellow man that is wrong. And this is a moment that goes back. This particular moment though, were trying to goes back to Tolstoy's novel Warren piece. When one of the main characters turns yet again to a peasant and the response of. Prince Pierre in warm piece is the same response of musician in social needs since snow? What say that again? Finally, I understand it's a brilliant chapter. Well, the my favorite moment book I've probably said that already today. So Pol Joe's, but I think this is my actual favorite is. Is at the end of the book. I just looked it up. It's on seven, twenty eight out of seven hundred forty one pages. Very, very near the end when through the bizarre detail oriented nature of the bureaucracy and the machinery, the bureaucracy near Sion receives back is finally gets back. His volume of poetry of I would pronounce it ESPN, but you save is saying in. So you saying in died tragically thirty, I looked this up. He died young. He was harassed by the KB the Soviet police, right? And. I think I don't know if this is true, but it says that he wrote his last poem with in blood. That's right. His deathbed commit suicide. That's right. So this this physically broken. So this is a, it's not a, it's not a coincidence that that's the poet who nursing is is is not reading. Somebody the nineteenth centuries reading somebody who died of few decades before and this books very precious as it every book in the book which is also mutable. But he's trying to give the book away and he's he's struggling to do so. And finally. He gives it to spirit on who's blind. So it gives us a precious gift of a book to to a man who can't enjoy it in case you missed it. He has. Is also tragic moment right after where he reads, spirit on a letter from his daughter because fair don't can't read. He's blind and I'm not sure read anyway that. And so the the symbolism that that Gleb narration is giving a book of of poetry, which is a book a poetry is by definition. It's it's about as pure work of art as you can have. It's not going to do anything that gonna help you sweep better. It gives it to a man who literally can't enjoy it, and there's something. Just I broke my heart. I that that that scene is just. Just that whole chapter and chapters around it, a farewell are vividness of them and part of it. Of course, we talked about this little bit last time we're as the reader were saying goodbye to the characters. So as they say goodbye to their friends and get onto the into the wagon, we're feeling the same emotions that everyone's feeling like maybe we won't see them again. Anyway, it's it's a, it's just such a a tremendous. Beautiful work of art and a let you of conclude Kevin with anything else you wanna add about. I might triangulate off of what you just said about, you've seen in the poet and this book of homes that Jeb leaves him. In actual fact, there were three books that socially, it's the person writer that soldier needs and took with him when he was sent off into the gulag camps. One of the books factory was a book of poems by singing who by the way was socially since obvious favorite poet, but he was his socially since favourite poet because you've seen in poetry dealt so much with the lives of peasants and the lives of rural Russia. The second book that social needs takes courses a copy of the bible. And the third book. Is a copy of legend dials collection of Russian proverbs. Proverbs are unbeaten leave ably important to socialises fiction it. This is something I'm arguing in the book that I'm currently writing a book that essentially addresses the influence of Russian proverbs, the role of Russian proverbs on social since fiction. But at any rate, this this party with spirits dome, there could not be anything that social needs. Sin could leave to his great close friends spirit dawn than the the one book that means more to him near Sion than anything else. It's a beautiful way to kind of have that partying scene between two very close individuals. Here's. In Rhode his last poem in in blood because he couldn't find any ink, and there's some dispute about whether he committed suicide. Some, he was assassinated. But his his last poem is very brief. It's rated it's called goodbye. My friend, goodbye. It's very also appropriate for the closing of the novel. It's goes this translation, obviously, farewell. My good friend for well, in my heart forever, you'll stay. May the faded parting foretell that again will meet up some day. Let no words no handshakes in SU said and browse in remorse to die in this life is not new and living's. No newer, of course, you wonderful, really beautiful and and I think I maybe misremembered this but feel like somewhere in in the first circle there, there's a date. They refused. To make a grand. Farewell because of course they wanna at least pretend they'll see each other again. I don't know if did socialists in Ruben was the the character the Rubens based on was was socialist friend. Did they? Did they ever do know they saw each other outside the camp when they. I think it's roughly nine hundred fifty seven. When was it this way in roughly nineteen? Fifty five. All of the zeks are freed for the gulags. They're not allowed to return home. However, they have to live on in what is called, get Sean Filc oh eternal, whoops, recieving eternal boy, exile exile. Thank you. Couldn't come up with it, but by roughly nineteen fifty, seven nineteen sixty eight. There is a proclamation of freedom whereby these people who are living in eternal exile, now may return home to their cities. Very interestingly, social needs does not return home to his say his native home restall where he had left. He goes to and this is the short story. Maturan is. House materialist home as as the protagonists of that short story rights having just got out of prison himself, I want to go to the real Russia and by the real Russia, he means the Russia of Yacine Yeon the Russia of tour genius. And by the way by extension, the real Russia that social needs in fines for himself in Vermont, where he settles for seventeen eighteen years after he has been kicked out of the Soviet Union. Well, I guess today has been Kevin mechanic, Kevin. I want to thank you for being part of econ tuck in enriching minder standing, and I'm sure our listeners I'm standing of this great book. Well, I thank you for this opportunity to kind of share some of life thoughts and insights, particularly because later today I'm going into one of my classes were reading. It's a class on the fiction of social needs. Since this always helps me to kind of organize some of my thoughts. This is econ- talk for the library economic liberty for Mauri contact econ, talk dot org where you can also comment on today's podcast and find links readings related today's conversation. The sound engineer recon talk is rich yet. I'm your host, Russ Roberts, thanks for listening. Talk to you on Monday.

Soviet Union Stalin Celo Jin writer gulag camp Ruben Iran United States Russ Roberts Rubin Moscow Kevin McKenna Cheraga Gleb Sion Ruben Facebook president Nobel prize Salou Jin
NEW: Changi Beach

Haunted Places

40:35 min | 6 months ago

NEW: Changi Beach

"The listeners it's Greg first and foremost I want to thank you for listening to podcast like you. We've had to make some major adjustments to adapt to these unprecedented times but with your loyalty and podcast staff. We've been able to do so. We thank you for your patience and with that I'm pleased to announce that there will be no more interruptions to you're listening experience due to covert nineteen. We're bringing you all new episodes today and for the foreseeable future from all of us here at podcast. We hope that you and your family are safe and healthy. Thank you again for your patients. And we hope you enjoy these new episodes. This episode features dramatization and discussions of violence war and murder listener. Discretion is advised especially for children under thirteen. Mari looked out onto the water and side. The Sun was beginning to set on her last day in Singapore and she already felt nostalgic about her trip. She tried to take in the moment as long as she could watching. The Sky turned from flaming orange to dusty purple. Even as the other beachgoers began to leave before long it was almost dark and the place was practically empty but just as Mari began rolling upper towel to head out herself. She heard something. Someone was wailing down. The beach in pain looked around frantic but she was alone. Everyone had gone. She followed the sound of the cries in the dark. She could make out a figure lying in the shadows a man. He was writing the water screaming the same word over and over in a language. She couldn't understand. Malay- Mandarin maybe. She ran to him moving closer. She saw that. The waves were tinged. Read the man was bleeding screaming and so much agony he sounded almost inhuman. Murray ran faster but just as she approached a massive wave crested onto shore crashing over the man's broken body and as the tide rolled back to see he was gone shaky from adrenaline. Murray searched everywhere for him crouching in the shallow water. She scanned the ocean the sand but he was nowhere then. She felt something it closed around her ankle. Murray instinctively pulled her leg. Back is searching the dark water. But the thing wouldn't let go. Then she saw it up Pale modeled. Hand Skin crusted by Barnacles and wrought another hand reached out of the surf to cease her calf and then dozens more Murray shrieked as they grasp better flesh pulling her into the sea but her screams were drowned in the roar of the way. Welcome to haunted places. Podcast original I'm Greg Poulsen. Every Thursday I take to the scary. Aereas most haunted real places on earth. You can find all episodes of haunted places for free on spotify and every Tuesday make sure to check out urban legends. These special episodes of haunted places are available exclusively on spotify at podcast for grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do it. We love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network this week. Join me on a supernatural journey to Chang e beach a seemingly idyllic tourist spot with a tragic blood-soaked history and discover why to this day and it's haunted on the eastern side of Singapore about fifteen minutes from the hustle and bustle of the nearest city. Lies a remote stretch of coastline called Chang e Beach. The beach itself is kind of a waste. Gentle Turquoise waters left the shore and Golden Sand Dunes stretch down as far as the I can see. It's a place seemingly untouched by time on developed and quiet but while the view is postcard. Perfect the story of Chiang Beach is anything but after the Japanese takeover of Singapore during the Second World War in nineteen forty two shaggy beach became a place of horrors. It was the site of mass executions. Hundreds of Chinese men were murdered by Japanese soldiers for being suspected communists or allied sympathizers it is perhaps the darkest and bloodiest chapter of Singapore's history. They call it. The Sook Ching afternoon Jin could tell by the angle. The light was shining through the slats in the truck three PM guest. He'd been gone six hours six hours without food without water and without a toilet. The truck smelled accurate with urine. A few men on board hadn't been able to hold their bladders six hours ago. Jim had been home now. Reality that seemed unfathomable now. His father was a teacher at the local high school then. He was often gone in the early mornings which left gin at nineteen in charge of his seven year. Old Sister Lie. Jin Walk Lie to school every day and recently she'd gotten in the habit of singing a made up songs as they walked that day. It was about Jin's glasses. He'd worn them since he was a kid. They were steel perfect circles. Lie insisted on putting them on while she sang. Jin held her hand the whole way to school then when he dropped her off she hugged him with all the strength. Her little body could muster. He nearly had to pry her off. It was almost as if she knew minutes later when he arrived for his first class. The university everything changed. Japanese soldiers stormed into buildings pulling students and professors out of classrooms. They drag Geno two and took them all to the screening center. There men were separated and walk past. A row of hooded figures. Informers Jin had heard that the informers were communists or anti-japanese rebels who'd been beaten and water tortured until they agree to identify their comrades. And though Jin was scared when he was paraded. In front of the hooded informers he knew he had no reason to be. He wasn't a communist or an allied sympathizer. He was just a university freshman architecture student but at the end of the line and in former head pointed at him he'd been identified as what Jin would never know. They marked his left cheek with ink in the shape of a triangle. He didn't know what it meant but now looking at the other side of the truck he had an idea they all had triangles while their arms their faces their chests and the Jin had no idea where they were going. He knew they were marked for death. Truck squealed to a stop sending Jin crashing into the man beside him. Sunlight flooded the DR cabin. Jin shielded his eyes squinting past the glare and his glasses he could see the silhouettes of soldiers framed in a square of light. Then he heard something he had expected. Water no waves. The Japanese soldiers had taken them to beach but not any beach. Shang Ye. Jin recognize it immediately. The Golden Dunes the bluewater. His family had come there Sunday afternoons picnic as a kid. He'd splashed in its waves. He couldn't believe that this was where they had taken them soon. Gin and the others were marched by gunpoint down the shore in the distance. He could see more. They were lined up in neat rows on the sand bound together by Rome but as Jim March closer. His heart dropped into a stomach. They're tied among the other man was his father. Chen he was. Shoveled is usual pressed. Collared Shirt was streaked with dirt and blood. Suddenly the emotion Jin had kept contained flooded his entire body and flowed out of his mouth. He wailed to his father. Bah On hearing Jen's voice shinned looked around for a son when he saw him in the line of coming prisoners. He screamed Jin's name. He struggled with his binds. Frantic to get to him but it was no use hearing the commotion. A soldier club shed with the butt of his rifle sending him to his knees. Gin swallowed a scream. He knew if he called out shed would get hit again. As Jin Pass Chen the father and son locked is Jin craned his neck not wanting to break their gaze. Tears streamed down his face but soon he was marched onward and Schenn's crumpled form grew smaller down the sand. Once they reach the end of the beach. The soldiers began binding them together with rope to his left. Jin was tied to another boy. He looked young younger than Chen. He stood next to him shaking uncontrollably whimpering. Jim Felt something wet and warm on his leg. The boy had pissed himself. Gin reached out taking the boy's hand in his own. The commander then ordered them and forward into the water with a few paces. They were up to their knees then their hips. The boys year in washed away in the sea on shore. The men arranged themselves in a neat line. It was a horrifying mirror image. The row of armed soldiers on the sand and the row of prisoners in the Water. Jin squinted in the Sun at the men on shore. No they weren't men. He realized they were boys like him. Eighteen nineteen none older than twenty three or twenty four on the chest of their uniforms. Word stitched fabric. They were letters. He couldn't read but Jin knew they were their names names. He'd never now. Jin heard a cascade of rifles cocky. He squeezed the boy's hand tighter. Men's creamed as the bullets rip through their bodies shredding their clothes and Flesh. Jin felt a searing pain on the right side of the space as a bullet ripped through his cheek. The force knocked him off his feet. Then it was falling even further. No it was being dragged down as the men to his left and right were shot. Their bodies pulled on the rope sending the line of prisoners into the waves. Jin fought to keep his head above water flailing against his restraints. He took a gasp of air before he was pulled under the water closed overhead. Jim looked around. Bullets continued to cut through the surface blood billowed from the men's wounded bodies in clouds of red. He kicked and kicked straining against the rope but he was tired and as he was pulled to the bottom by the way to the other man he stopped swimming. He led his limbs go slack and his mind go quiet and as he watched the sun at the water's surface grow dimmer and dimmer. Jin saw something. Catch the light. His silver glasses having been knocked off his face in the struggle. Where now caught in the tide and as he was pulled deeper into the depths of the sea he heard lies morning. Song Echo in the silence of the way immediately. After imperial Japan's takeover of Singapore in World War Two generally Amish Shita sent out a decree ordering all anti-japanese elements to be eliminated the Japanese called the Mandate Daikin show or the great inspection. Well the people of Singapore knew what it truly was. They named it. Sook Ching purification by limitation all Chinese men in Singapore between the ages of eighteen and fifty were rounded up. Anyone identified as a potential threat to Japanese. Rule was marked with a triangle. Many men were marked for no reason other than they looked. Suspicious or educated men with glasses were common target. Once these men were marked were gathered up and executed and mass one of the first and most infamous locations of these killing fields. Was Chang e beach on its shores. Dozens of men were put to death. Bullet-ridden corpses were said to flow to shore for days after the executions but today decades after the waves washed away. It's bloodstained sand Chang. E beach remains seemingly untouched. Nothing is left. At the horrific crimes that occurred there other than a small plaque commemorating the thousands of those executed and the spirits. That's still haunted to this day. Um coming up. The ghost of Chiang e beach make their presence known now back to the story. The death toll of searching remains a subject of international debate though Japan claims that only five thousand lives were lost others report that as many as fifty thousand Singaporeans predominantly Chinese heritage were murdered. The scale of those affected in Singapore was massive families were left with gaping holes. That fathers brothers and sons once occupied and in some cases mothers and daughters and children. Those who lost loved ones to the killing fields demanded retribution. They received it in the form of formal trials. Seven Imperial Japanese army officers were tried for the atrocities of the Sook. Ching five or given life sentences. While two were executed another Japanese war criminal was shot dead on the shores of Chiang e beach just like dozens of Chinese victims before him but the people of Singapore felt it wasn't enough. They clamored for public hangings of all the officers. A representative of the victims families issued a statement declaring that the souls of the thousands of Singapore Chinese massacred would not be satisfied until all seven men had been executed. They never got their wish to this day. The spirits of the murder victims roam the beaches of chang-hee hungry for a blood debt. That can never truly be repaid. Shuji ran as fast as he could but already. The muscles in his legs were burning. He'd been running ever since he left school that day and though it felt like ours that closing bell had rung less than twenty minutes ago. That's when it started. It was February fifteenth. Total Defence Day as it was known in Singapore a national holiday commemorating the anniversary of Singapore's fall to Japan in World War. Two in school shootings teachers talk to his class about the suffering Singaporeans faced during Japanese occupation. They recounted the battles and food shortages concentration camps torture. They'll the teachers never got into specifics. Every kid new the gruesome details Japanese water torture were hose was forced down to victims throat until water seeped out of their eyes and nose. Listen especially popular topic. All the secondary students told that one with horrifying glee but while the rest of the kids circled around listening wide eyed to their macabre stories. Shuji kept to himself on the other side of the blacktop his head down because unlike the other kids Shuji was Japanese Shuji hated total defence day. Every year he begged his mother not to make him go to school but she always did. It was important. She told Sushi important to know the country's history no matter what it was but she didn't understand she didn't know Chen. Chen Sal was the most brutal kid in school at at Fourteen. He was already nearly six feet tall. Shuji skinny and a shorter didn't stand a chance. Every week he endured some twisted abuse from Chen usually he liked to steal shoot glasses office face leaving him. Nearly blind and helpless Chen would show them to the ground and make him beg for them out his knees once when he grew bored of stealing glasses. He took Shuji inhaler collapsed and weasing. Shuji nearly blacked out before a nurse. Russia's aid well today would be the worst of Chen's punishments as the sole Japanese kid. His grade Shuji expected it but he never expected what Chen actually had in store that day in history class as their teacher was recounting the horrors of the searching massacres. Someone taps Shuji on the shoulder and handed him a note as he unfolded paper. Shoe size widened in horror inside sickness. Sketch it had to crudely drawn stick figures one lying on the ground while the other forced tube down at circular shaped mouth Japanese water torture scrawled above the awful scene. Where three words. After last bell for the rest of class he couldn't focus on a word of the history lesson over the pouting ears and as soon as the dismissal bell rang. Shuji ran for his life. Shoot he was lucky. He had a head start and though he was small he was a good runner. At least when his asthma didn't flare up but he didn't count on Chen and his gang having bicycles after five minutes. Shuji heard the word of their wheels on the road behind him. He ran faster making a sharp left due east toward Chang e Beach. Shuji figure that the sand would slow down the voice bikes but when he stepped down to the beach he saw Chen and the other is already emerging from the tree line. They had bound him looking around the open. Expanse of water and sand shuji realized there was nowhere to go and it was too late to hide. Panicked he ran for the footbridge over the water but as soon as his feet struck the would he realized his mistake. The bridge ended suspended over the waves. He was trapped. Shuji heard the sounds of bicycles. Clattering on the wood planks in the twilight. He could see. Chen was waving something of his head. Long Snake to the funnel. Shuji stomach dropped. Chen laughed maniacally calling to Shuji. He yelled who needs a hose when you have the entire ocean. Schutte turned around and sprinted down the bridge breathing hard from the running but terror. He was exhausted but his fear kept his legs moving but soon he skidded to a stop. He'd reached the end of the bridge. The Sky was black now but he could see the dark water roiling below his feet waves crashing into boulders. He couldn't jump into the rocks but just as he turned around to face. Chen hands seized him by the shoulders and threw him to the ground knocking his glasses office face. Two of the boys paint him down. Shuji yelled struggling beneath their weight to no avail. Chen threw down his bicycle and CR- in he handed the funnel and hose to another boy and ordered him to build it up all the way he walked towards Shuichi looming over him in the dark. Come on Chen said did shoot. He really think he was going to escape today of all days no he had revenged take he was going to do to. Shuji what Shuji people had done to his. He was going to repay a debt soon. The other boy returned with the funnel. Sloshing with water shuji struggled harder flailing and kicking but the three boys held down his arms and legs and soon. Chen knelt down with a glint in his eyes he told Shuji to open up and pinched his nostrils shut. Shoot he tried to hold his breath but after what felt like an eternity he gasped for air. Chen took the opportunity to shove the tube in his open mouth. Shuji squeezed shut feeling the first gush of seawater but then it stopped a sound resonated in the humid night it was eerie. Like a wounded animal caught off guard. Chen had moved the funnel to the side staring wide eyed toward the water. His jaw dropped open following his gaze. The other boys turned around and gasped. They're standing at the edge of the peer was a man but without his glasses all Shuji saw was the blurred outline of a hunched shriveled. Figure the thing took a staggering step forward toward the frozen boys that it opened the gaping abyss of its mouth. The sound that emanated from its throat was unnatural distorted and waterlogged but Shuji could feel the agony it reverberated through his body twisting up his gut and stinging his eyes with tears. It hurt like one hundred needles. Through shoot slams his chest his stomach it screams sent the frozen boys scrambling to their feet. They sprinted down the bridge past their bicycles. Fleeing on foot but SHUJI has glasses. Nowhere in sight was left behind. He groped for their cool steelframes shaking hyperventilating. He could feel the man. The things is on him but without his glasses. Schutte's eyesight was useless in the dark. What direction was the beach? He didn't know which way to go. He was stuck stuck with this creature. Shoot she began to cry as hot tears. Roll down his cheeks. Schutte saw something. Pierces periphery it. Came into focus in front of this is it was the man's hand in his nearsighted vision. Shuji could see clearly now but Pale. Mottled flesh the index finger outstretched but at what shoot he didn't know beyond its hand was just the darkness of the beach now in his field of vision. Shuji shifted his focus from the things. Hand up its arm into its entire body. What he saw made his blood run cold. The man's clothes were tattered entrenched his body riddled with holes and as Shuji stared the wounds. The man's body began to seek blood. Scarlet bloomed across the fiber sufficient. Damn Close. He dragged her ragged length of rope. That was tied around his ankles. The man's right cheek was ripped open revealing raw send you exposing his jawbone and cracked teeth on his left cheek was a dark shape. A triangle like a crew tattoo shoot. He's creams died at his throat. He knelt on the dock paralyzed and shaking without his glasses. He couldn't find his way off the beach but what he just seen had left him glued to the spot yet the hunched man pointing into the dark almost as if he were waiting for what then Shuji realized he was pointing Shuji Direction. Home showing him the way off Chang-hee and then as soon as he appeared the man was gone. Those who witnessed the supernatural activity on Chang Beach tend to report the same Erie occurrences often screams cries for help are heard emanating from the sea at night and for those brave souls that stick around long enough. Some spirits will reveal themselves the most common ghostly sightings on chang-hee reported visions of the dead men who had been executed there but rather than materializing as whole human beings the often appear riddled with bullets or in pieces. Ghostly manifestations of their bodies after they've been brutalized some report sightings of severed heads bobbing on the water surface or decapitated bodies walking aimlessly on shore. There they wander looking for the parts of themselves lost to the violence and the depths of the sea coming up of final grossly tale from Chiang e beach and the homecoming now back to the story among the ghostly occurrences Chang e beach. Perhaps the most chilling reports are not a bullet ridden bodies wailing along the sand or disembodied heads bobbing on the waves but rather the visions of the massacre itself. Visitors are said to have heard gunfire down the shore only to stumble across a ghostly recreation of the tragic seen an apparition of bound men lined up in the water. As Japanese soldiers. Fire from the sand the ghostly massacre place on the shore like a macabre play recreating the horrifying act. Then repeating it again and again as long as the souls of the fallen men stay trapped the beach they're doomed to relive their most tragic moments and those who stumble in their path are forced to witness the same. Emily decided she hated Singapore. She hated the seventeen hour flight from San Francisco to get there. She hated the food and she hated what the humidity detour hair. But most of all she hated that she was there with her entire extended family. It was a nightmare. The only person. Emily wasn't furious out. Was Her grandma lie? She was the whole reason for this godforsaken trip but still. Emily couldn't get Matt. Her Bremmer lie was in her eighties now but decades before she lived in Singapore. She'd been born there but as a little girl lie had emigrated to the US after losing most every family in World War. Two as the story went when she was just seven years old. Her father and brother left for work in school and never came back. From that day on lie had been an orphan. It was a painful history and not once. She liked to delve into but when grandma lie turned eighty she decided she wanted to go home to Singapore. Soon Emily. Entire family had planned an elaborate multi-month trip. They called it jokingly. The grandma lied life tour and today was one of the tours sadder stops they read Chang. beach the site where. Graham lies father and brother had been executed all day. Emily had watched her grandmother's face carefully interpreting the expressions in her wrinkled skin but the lie was famous in their family for her stiff upper lip. Emily knew she was sad. She could see it in your eyes but despite this her entire family treated the day like a neighborhood barbecue grilling hot dogs and sunbathing. It made emily want to scream even outdoors. She felt the walls closing in. She just needed to get away just for awhile. Emily walked down the shore and looked at the orange and deep purple sunset. She couldn't deny it was beautiful but she was a no mood to appreciate the view instead. She kept looking straight ahead. Trudging through the sand. The son seemed to be sinking toward the horizon. Had A rapid rate plummeting really every step. She took the evening seemed to get a shade darker at colder. Emily wrapped your arms around herself and shivered she hadn't packed sweater. There was no way she thought Singapore would be this Chilean June but she kept walking forward bracing herself against the breeze. The Sky was a deep dark shade of Blue Nile. Twilight and the air was suddenly still not a Chirp bird for Jin under cousins laughter from the water. Emily turned around looking back to where she came. She saw nothing down the beach not chin not her causing not even the fishermen she passed who cast their lines from the shore had. She walked that far that she froze a single gunshot echoed along the beach. Emily dropped to her knees ducking her heart raced as soon as she looked up. She saw something strange. The sand a few paces away were stained red moments before there was nothing there. She looked further into the distance. Seeing Red Blotch is trailing the beach knees still shaking from the gunshot. Emily got to her feet and went to inspect them. Each one was damp as it marked by a recent bloodstain. A wounded animal. Maybe she walked forward to look at the next one. Then she slight. She saw them dozens of men hip deep in the Turquoise water standing shoulder to shoulder they formed a perfect line to perfect as. Emily peered closer. She saw that. They were bound together with rope. Some of the men were crying pleading toward the empty shore. But at what? Emily didn't know in the next moment. A chill down your spine and then the unmistakable. Click of a rifle being cocked. Then dozens more. The sound cascaded down the beach. Sending Emily sprinting behind a nearby boulder then the thunder of gunfire boom through the atmosphere as shot after shot rang out. Emily watched in horror as invisible. Bullets rip through the bodies of the bound men. The screamed in agony as they were mowed down by gunfire. Emily saw one man go down then another then more sending the whole line of men crashing into the water frantic. Emily realized she had to help. Someone had to help. She sprinted down the sand charging into the blood tinged water the men were sinking like stones and the waves only a few managed to keep their head above the surface. One man with round steel rimmed glasses had been shot through the cheek but still alive. He kicked and flailed fighting for his life. Emily ran toward him and tugged on the ropes. Binding his hands trying to pull him free but they were tied to tight and no matter how hard she lifted the weight of the dead men pulled them downward soon. Her feet slipped sending her tumbling into the water now. She was tangled in the ropes herself. Flailing in the bloody sea water entered her open. Throat entered her chest then. There was nothing at all. Emily woke up wet and gasping for air. Her body half submerged in low tide. She looked around for the bloody water. The man with a shot cheek but there was nothing just something cool and thin in her hand but before she could look a bobbing. Golden Beam came toward her then many voices her family at Heard. Emily gasping down the beach. The rushed Ofer flashlight. In hand relieved they found her sobbing. The embraced her damp body and bombarded her with questions. Where'd she gone? Did she fall in? Emily could only sputtering response than cough. Grandma line knelt down beside her and cradled emily's face between her hands looking into her eyes searching last year what happened. What did you see? Emily struggled to speak to begin to express she'd witnessed instead. She held your hand up to Graham lie and opened it resting in her palm for glasses. Steel rimmed perfect circles. Grandma lie began to solve years. After the brutal killings of searching mass graves were discovered across Singapore the remains of thousands of individuals executed by the Japanese were then exhumed and relocated to a memorial commemorating the tragic loss. Now families of the victims of the Sook Ching can pay their respects some travel from all over the world to see their loved ones put to a proper rest the site is a painful reminder of the horrors of war but also a comfort to those who come there but though the bones of those massacred at searching can be found at the memorial. We're left to wonder where their spirits clinker. Some visitors at Chiang e beach may know the answer as they witnessed the grotesque phantoms dragged themselves across the bloody beach. There's no question in their mind but what about yours. Perhaps the picturesque Golden Sand and. Turquoise waters isn't a convincing setting for a brutal mass haunting. Perhaps you don't believe in Hell in paradise. Just remember if you find yourself at Chiang Beach don't stay too long for the brilliant sunset you never know what horrors the tide might bring in. Thanks again for tuning into haunted places. We'll be back on Thursday with a new episode and don't forget to come back on Tuesday for our urban legends series available. Only on spotify. You can find more episodes of haunted places than all other podcasts. Originals for free on spotify deleted spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like haunted places for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream places spotify. Just open the APP and type haunted places in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at park cast and twitter at podcast network. I'll see you. Next time haunted places it was created by Max Cutler and is a park has studios original executive producers include Maxson Ron Cutler. Sound design by Kenny. Hobbs with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Isabel away. The episode of haunted places was written by Alex Garland with writing assistance by Greg Castro. I'm Greg Poulsen.

Shuji Jin Singapore Chen Sal emily Chang e beach spotify Jim March Chiang e beach SHUJI murder Greg Poulsen facebook Shuji Sook Ching Japan Murray Schutte Imperial Japanese army