1 Episode results for "Jimmy Kimmel Louis"

Americas Emmy Home Videos (with David Chang and Zachary Quinto)

Keep It!

1:51:39 hr | 7 months ago

Americas Emmy Home Videos (with David Chang and Zachary Quinto)

"Keep it is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. I can imagine that hiring someone during this pandemic is probably one of the most difficult things ever. You have to worry about enforcing social distancing supplying masks to your employees. They use. How do you find anyone? Well, Monica starts could relate. Let me tell you about homegirl Monica. Okay? Oh Monica tell me about it. It's a higher for a pivotal role and her Construction Company age group, but she was having a tough time finding the right person, especially with so many candidates out there. So she switched to ZipRecruiter typically doesn't depend on candidates finding you at finds them for you. It's technology identifies people with the right experience for your job and actively invites them to apply which is why you should try zip recruiter for free as ZipRecruiter, keep it you know, what that's how Monica from Lamont Jenkins and who is Lamont. She said ZipRecruiter sent her Lamont's profile around five minutes after she posted her job because he was such a great match for the wrong. Okay massage. ZipRecruiter monika's company has hired everyone from accountants to project managers to field scientists and she's not the only employer who loves their recruiter. So if y'all want to hire a large chunks of your own you need to go to ziprecruiter.com keep it cuz ZipRecruiter makes hiring faster and easier. Try it now for free at ziprecruiter.com slash keep it that is z i p r e c r u i t e r m i t ZipRecruiter spell it for your listeners who still don't know how to spell a podcast name. Look back with an all-new keep it off. I don't know Madison the third are we back? I moved. Yeah, I'm back. We're here physically. Are we here? All emotionally and mentally I am. Okay. I'll take take my sadness elsewhere. Okay, that's a huge burden to put on me to figure that out right now right at the top of the show. I'm Luis for Todd. I'm a dachshund. I think well, hi my Log Cabin Boy dog is how are we going and I haven't devoted any brainspace to learning that Katharine McPhee donated to the Republican party and it shouldn't mean anything to me because she is an Indian Idol runner-up who just got one NBC show one time, but she has played so hard to the gays on that goddamn Twitter that it is insulting. All right, tell me what you're talking about wage. Oh well, so have you heard of Katharine McPhee? Yes. Yes. We're here for that. Okay. Yes. Yes Mash American Idol and also waitress waitress on Broadway. So what's important to note about her American Idol run was there was a time when any lady singer with brown hair had to sing Black Horse & the Cherry Tree by KT Tunstall and she was one of those people. Okay. It came out this week that this woman who has been cultivating a gay fan base to the likes that I have not seen since Nick Jonas was near-naked on every game magazine cover and truly like if she released a video months that had her looking at her vanity and turning around to the camera and saying hi my gay boys, but also she just kept going. I mean like she references every gay sent off. Meme on her Twitter. She's always popping him. I mean like it's plan like there's some gay intern Mastermind running the whole operation. I'm sure it's not entirely. She taught herself. Yeah, right. I doubt she even would see most of these tweets, you know. Yeah, cuz it was just like the way that Katharine McPhee would constantly like oh a meme is happening online like the way that she would instantly sort of have a response. It's like a bitch. You're busy, right? Yeah. Are you like trying to write a packet for late-night? What's going on? Right since since you be given David Foster a sponge bath old man, you married off? Okay, so she's not being brought up in there has been a recent Fall From Grace, right? This is yeah. So this week this week. So one shared screen shots, cuz you know, you can look up people's political donations. She has been donating money to Republicans and not just to Republicans. She was donating to this website Red Wind, which gives you a log. To every Republican running for office and different races that you can participate in and she's also a registered Republican in California. Okay, I mean that makes a lot of sense now now that we talked about it. I mean it just points to what now feels like the most callous stream of Tweets in memory. I mean to just paddle out wage is like that and then directly directly contradict that quote unquote love for with this bullshit. It's just really surprising and I was I had to change from my limited experience with the show smash a team Karen fan because I felt that Karen was maligned for having natural star Charisma when Megan Hilty was just like all Talent, you know, and I wanted to be like the page. So on the side of natural X Factor but no longer. Listen. I'm not going to lie to kick it. You know, I like to Katharine McPhee. I like to earn smash as well. So, you know, I thought was I was shocked I was shocked to be honest people could try to be like, of course. He's married to David Foster. Like of course, she was a Republican and I'm like, yes in my brain. I should be thinking also David Fosters a republican town. I mean he did run over Ben Vereen, but David Republicans to yeah, right David David Foster worked with like hella Negroes, you know, I I don't know it seemed like he was an asshole but down anyway, I guess not right. So and by the way, I guess now I'm a Taylor Hicks fan, which is well, I'll turn he's a republican to God to me. Well, not Republican, but do you recall that he performed at the Republican National Convention? Oh, correct one, and then and then he said that he took it to be equal opportunity and he was awaiting an invite to also perform at the DNC. It was like I'd is this how you're trying to get press join Vela. Yeah. Also, that's a very Republic buy sneakers to type response. Yes. Yeah. Wow shocking the amount of white people that are secretly Republican. How shocked are we? I know I'm sorry to even have to like explainer this two people dead. That season that whole season is Awash Louis, who can we stand from That season of American Idol now wait Elliott Yamin is that season right have to do that. Yeah. We can you listen Elliot your mean off of that voice by the way, maybe I'm a Mendy's a stand. Did you ever consider? Yes. Yeah. Okay. These are good choices. Yeah, not Bucky Covington. This is not a problem coming taste podcast. I've been to say that well, we have a very exciting episode today. We have two guests joining us first. We're going to talk to David Chang restaurant tour and Jeff celebrity. Okay? Yeah, I think in that order definitely. Yeah and I get to be there for both of the interviews today very it's a rarity it's a rarity the streets have been either. I I was surprised people noticed. I'm like girl. I just asked questions like that's not be missed that you're surprised people noticed when it was just Ira Lewis acid questions. Yep. Third person on the show and four months at a time. Yeah. Our listeners are perceptive. Ayena ears ears. They have them shock shock. We will also be joined by Zachary Quinto making a return appearance to keep it. What was he here for last time and I was not here for the last time he was here last time he was here when boys in the Band by hitting Broadway and now he's here to talk about the film full circle. Yeah, that's history. I bet you're going to bring up Heroes a show have not seen though. I literally am so familiar with the rest of his catalog. So I feel about that right? Well keep feeling bad. Okay, I feel bad for having watched Heroes. The first season. It's awful remember hating penetration. Remember her? Yeah Nashville baby. Anyway, awesome scream for don't forget. Yeah. Yeah. Classic RRP Kirby she'd better be in five years. Of but before we get on with the show, I would be remiss not to bring up the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg this weekend and the office Cape that it has plunged us into this week watching a new Fox as I call it watching every rat Scurry above the SS GOP so they can get a nominee onto the court a conservative nominee and replace her seat. I mean, it's the woman money. She's the one person we're like culturally comedic Lee it became kind of a cliche to be obsessed with her and you know girlboss it up but it's also like just an unprecedented wage here in human history. I mean, it's just in a way like I don't even think I've spent enough time with it. She's I said on Twitter which sounded so kind of glib of me, but like it's really a Wikipedia that is amazing from start to end game. Just read it and but and I say this like I love Wikipedia, I think more people should go to it. I almost am anti museums and pro Wikipedia. Like I'm like, I'm almost far right in this way down, but you can you can get a lot of information on her really quickly and you don't even have to watch that Felicity Jones movies. So do it. Yes, cuz on the basis of sex is a bad movie indeed. Yes, my favorite thing about her. I had to go back of course and watch the Ruth Bader Ginsburg documentary on Hulu and I we spent so much time around Comedians and people who are personalities trying to be funny. I forgot the intensity of a sober person off and the intentionality of someone who is serious and cares about philosophical things and wants wants you to understand that you know comedy is not trying to get a joke off all the time and have my own place that I now call dissenting colors. So I I love very, all right, very fortunate very fortunate dead. To have had her as a role model in my life. And you know, I don't even want to get mad all the white feminists today is not the day for that for me. But I mean you could get mad at White feminists any time of the day you sure I mean it is a general state of being mowed a feminist. I mean you mean we're able to talk about Nuance on the show, you know, like there's there is the idea that Lewis brought up before, you know, the girl boss said was a unfortunate time in mixing of political discourse and like nonsense, you know, I mean, like I'm sure it's stemmed from the torious RPG, you know Meme that first started and then it became a book and then it became t-shirts and everything, you know, and it's just sort of just like cult of personality around her that could become exhausting. And by the way again, it's like there should be some of that there should be some of that, you know, yeah, but yeah, there should be some of that but I would also say that like since we're in Hell a lot of bots So that in a way that I specifically remember like would calls for like our BG to retire before right? Yeah, you know you were you were you were met with responses that were like this is sexist. This is ages et cetera. But then I'm also like the woman be cancer twice and also like fell down and broke her ribs, you know, so often after the third Hospital trip, I might have been like Hey cuz I'm going back to just this piece, you know about like the The Cult of Personality surrounding. I believe it since late June. It's I remember her saying you want like, I'm sure the next president will be like, you know, a very fine president, you know, I can leave the bench under him, you know, and this was during Obama and it's like I don't know what he was not now, you know and like, you know, like and I'm not expecting everyone to have foreseen America's descent into fascism coming off. We were in the middle of Obama because you know, I can admit that I was shot, you know, like we always have to say black people saw Trump coming and they saw him coming but I was shocked that white people just like so overwhelmingly turned to bite even their own hand just to curse Us by voting for Trump, right? So like didn't really see that coming but then like It's so hard, you know, like loving a political figure now and then like it's it's I feel like it's tainted so much of RPGs memory not that stuff the white feminism wage stuff specifically the fact that for the past four years like we've had her on deathwatch, you know, any glass breakable you can bring please don't die off while Trump is in office, please and then of course, of course because everything in twenty-twenty is fucked. It happens when we're days before the election not even days before the election people are already early voting. We're in the middle of an election, right? So again, she probably died in the middle of a one-handed pushup. I mean, I'm sure Thursday. We are the granddaughters of the witches you unable to burn. All right off. Of the but yes, you know I like I love so much about RPG. It's just like so unfortunate like a lot of things right now that like she has a pass at this time, you know, because there's is there proper time to mourn her while we're rushing to save democracy. Not really somebody who brilliantly was tweeting about Ruth Bader Ginsburg friend guy branum has a whole series of great tweets about her. So you're looking for something abbreviated check that out too. And I guess that just leaves me with the fact that today as we're recording. It is National voter registration day and you know, it is never too late to double-check that you are still registered at votesaveamerica.com / verify cuz this is an especially important election and it is especially important if you've moved since the last election changed your name, or if you have not voted in a while. So once you've checked make sure your friends and family have verified their register. As well and then head to vote save America., every last vote for volunteer opportunity to get new voters registered and the donate to organizations helping to get registration info to log in key places ahead of their deadlines. And you know, what sign up to be a poll worker. Yeah, and you know, we've got the get Mitch or Die Tryin thing going on and crooked which is highlighting important Senate seats that we can flip because you know, like we're going into this nightmare with Trump trying to rush in a Supreme Court Justice But like after that, we're going to have to like take back the Senate, you know, and after her death, like I don't even know the number anymore but like raise so much money for this initiative and so start looking into Senate races that we can support. I want to highlight Mike SB in Mississippi who could become the first black senator in Mississippi since reconstruction who is dead. In a very tight race with a woman who was joking about lynching like a couple of years ago. So, you know help that brother out also, he looks fine. So I'm a little off, but but he'll help him out and donate if you can we'll be right back with a conversation about this years and he's dead. So the Emmy Awards were on Sunday evening and not unless you were the Daya in the cast of schitt's Creek in succession sit down girl. Stay seated or Watchmen thought you were not winning anything and I turned off I would have turned off my zoom truly if I was nominated for a comedy and I realized that like schitt's Creek was gorgeous wage sweet. It might as well just be shipped sweet. I would have time ago right now if I have anything to do with the kominsky method, I'm running outside off of me walking outside because as you know, this was a award show that was broadcast from the nominees as homes, you know, it was TJ. Yeah, socially distanced images, you know, everyone was zooming in or well we'll get the specifics because Lewis worked on the show that is true enough. Basically. No one was at the actual ceremony and I feel like it's different when you were at the ceremony and you're watching a bunch of people win, at least, you know, there's the you know, people you're sitting next to you know, there's a camaraderie of being you know with everyone in the industry that you love like co-workers and then you have your drunk as well and then returning to go to after even if you did lose, you know, but if you're just sitting at home watching yourself lose in a ward feels kind of dark. Yeah, I imagine it's a quiet evening. Yeah, I mean and also it's it's harder to I don't want to say it's harder to pay attention, but it just yeah. What else are you looking for in the evening necessarily? I don't know. Yeah, you're right. There's no there's no extra value part of the joy for me was seeing someone like Alina wait sitting by Meryl Streep and thinking girl. What are they talking about? What could they ever be talking about and that's just totally lacking those totally lacking this year? Yes. Well this year the show was hosted by Jimmy Kimmel Louis's regular employer offer. You worked on the show this year. So I mean, yeah, that's what it was. Like, well first of all, I will and by the way, I think I've said something along the lines of this well before I work for Jimmy Kimmel, but he really is like a deal and that he has the Letterman sarcasm. And by the way, it was very interesting to see David Letterman and yet also is not over it and by that, I mean like he's like cool with the celebrities and not like dismissive are having to like turn off camera be like what a load of shit every five minutes, you know, I enjoy him honestly as a present her he does seem to be having fun doing it and it's not labor. Yeah, I'm away that we we've seen other people host towards I appreciate like a palatable host humor. That's just in good fun. Like I get tired sometimes of like a Ricky Gervais some like why are you glad you log? Right take the job. You clearly don't want to be here and also like the narcissism of being like we're all over this. Right as you're paid so much money to host a fucking thing. It's like it's just it's just the the worth of masculinity to me is all I can say when I think of things like that note was super bare-bones. I was actually just thinking that I don't know if you guys feel this way writing from home on all the stuff you write for but it has made me grateful for college because I thought now all entertainment writing I do right now like writing jokes Etc feels like writing a term paper. You're not surrounded by anybody you're just like alone and so literally writing for the Emmys has felt like my day job and it is felt like oh, yeah writing tweets or whatever. I didn't get to go to the ceremony there only a couple of writers. They're obviously it's there's everything occurs on my living room couch now, so it's I felt as unmanned cameras, as you know, Laura Linney sitting there waiting for his end day at a win something convenient to being able to write at your own pace, like even for this podcast being able to you know, think about What I'm going to say and have that written out kind of in a way at least in some of the structure even though it doesn't appear to be that way at all and also writing for other shows. You've been it's especially it takes away the intimidation factor of being in the creative space with multiple people when you're by yourself is like there's a screen girl. I could go to the bathroom. I can turn my camera off which I often do. So. Yeah. So Louis, what is it like doing ceremony? First of all, even in general for people because we know that you wrote for the Emmys, but how does that and then entail you know for people listening you still having to be like on hand during the actual show? Oh sure. Well in the case of this year's Emmys, I mean, I imagine most years the bulk of the work could be broken down into a, you know, little assignments like right for Jennifer Aniston age to go toward or write some patter for David Letterman appearing or whatever but in the case of this year, we had to write a lot of what-ifs stuff in case like a winners Wi-Fi went out or off. You know some somebody didn't show up who was supposed to show up on screen, you know, things like that. And so it actually was a lot of covering bases in a way that you would never have to do with an M. He's otherwise and I wrote a lot of stuff. I was just out of that will never see the light of day no sense to just Trot out this year, especially if we're just talking about the winds. We kind of predicted most of every you know, and you know, like we have that whole bit set up with the Stanley Cup being there in case schitt's Creek Slade and I mean me personally I thought they were going to lose one or two. So I was wondering if that bit would even fly but of course I shouldn't lose a fucking thing. So that would canadastays winning now they can go outside and they can win a war so jealous watching them just be in that room. Happy birthday ready to go. I was going to ask you since there was like everyone was working separately. Was there any transparency but whose jokes were being used or whose writers like which writer was getting bits dead? Oh, there's a lot. There's like a huge list of like approved jokes and approved bits that said until I saw the final document of like for instance the monologue like that's the only place where you saw definitely we're going to be saying these jobs, you know as opposed to whatever happened later in the show. I love the monologue. Although I will say that it was almost M Night Shyamalan in level of wage how long it took for the punch line. It's joke because cuz I'm sitting there watching it with like her roommate and things I really like what's going on and it's like At first at first I was like if they're using clip from old Emmys, um, if I were an actor who was being used in one of those clips like shut down one more Sarah Hyland is just like uproariously laughing something that Jimmy says I would have been like, well, I didn't actually find that joke as funny as the thing. I was alive right off. But it was it did end up when it revealed it like Jimmy in the empty audience with the cut-outs very VMAs because I remember doing the VMAs for a m m t v one year and they had fallen like cut outs of people and that was fun. Seeing that Rita Ora was like in the second row what I liked about that bit. And as I was watching it, I kind of had forgotten how long it was going on and it was watching it's actually nerve-racking being on this side of the curtain watching people on Twitter being like what is this what's going on know I could expect to be like I could explain but then Jimmy then countering with of course, there's nobody here was like exactly the right tone to take with that. I thought and then Jason Bateman Thursday actually is what then made the joke really land for me. Right? Right right him being the sole person in the audience among the cutouts. I have to question my sense of humor every time I laugh at a stupid little word joke birth. Panda me is was a home run is really got me. I want to say I've heard that word now like over the past two months a million times. So it has no humor for me. Okay, so you're set Panda wage and I'm just like nuts not funny in one ear and out the other as we said we expected a lot of the schitt's creek wins. I expected Watchmen wins as well. Very excited for my friend cord Jefferson for winning then my dear friend that okay, cuz fan. Yeah. We left card. Let him on the pot show me I would love to have brought on what I texted him after he wanted to congratulate him. I realized that some of our last texts were literally two days before the shutdown was happening. We had plans on Tuesday haunted and then everything and then everything was shut down on Sunday. It was like, oh hey, yeah cuz we had had dinner plans the week before birth. Or and had to reschedule them because I had a work thing and we were like yeah, just let's do next Tuesday know right now. There was an experience $0.01 down. There was no Tuesday my favorite 1954 sci-fi film. But aside from that were there things that we that happen that we didn't expect cuz I expected Washington success and and schitt's Creek to sweep actually, cuz those were the three shows people were talking about I will say I didn't expect Watchmen to miss in the Jean Smart Universe to me. That was one of the main things. Yeah, and she lost to who so Duba and Miss America, which is a really great performance. Actually. It's a fabulous performance my favorite performance of the miniseries to be honest. Yeah, Shirley Chisholm stuff was the only thing that riveted me, you know, I was not a fan of Miss America like you were yeah. Yeah. I wanted it to be surely we talked about it on the podcast that it would have been a much better use of time. I think if it were real. Shirley Chisholm in my opinion and also I mean like now for instance people like Gloria Steinem and talked about how this whole movement did not revolve around Phyllis Schlafly in anyway, you know, I mean revision like that we read along right at that way, but we do want to see Cate Blanchett smile slowly at in a villainous way. I do want to say that but in terms in terms of the schitt's Creek area of it all I will say. Hey call Catherine. Oh, yes, right. I remember you told her I figured your gear and she was like, I don't know. She did know that's Canadians talking. I can't think of another award show down there. Anything has gotten zero nominations up to the last season and then one everything that there's nothing like that obviously, sometimes you have like a Jon Hamm who was rewarded after years of being nominated Burt Kyle Chandler of Sarah Jessica Parker, but that's the entire show. No, no every single thing like it almost it's a little mind-boggling and it speaks to the state of what's going on in Iraq. Rest of Comedy I think a little bit more than what is going on in schitt's Creek, which is an agreed-upon lovely Pleasant very funny show, but for it to win unanimously everything. I mean, it should have us all questioning. How much were laughing at T these days. I think yeah, it was so funny seeing that because it reminds you just of the fact that one schitt's Creek was basically an unknown entity off to us for like his first two seasons, right? Yeah, and then once it hits Netflix like it became so insanely popular you have like Mariah Carey tweeting at Dan Levy, you know being like I loved schitt's Creek stuff like that, you know, so it really became like this cultural phenomenon as it was ending right? It's a global phenomenon and its serendipitous. I guess that it happens in its fourth season because how exhausting would it be if this became like a modern family and it was like schitt's Creek just kept sweeping every year. Right, right, cuz that's what can send to happen at home. Emmys as opposed to the Oscars just because movies are different, you know, so like an actor could be nominated back-to-back years, but the performances are doing and the people they're up against are different. But for the Emmys for the most part, it's largely people being nominated against people that they were nominated against last year for the same performance totally and like in a way I do like that about the Emmys that there will be runs of people being awarded again and again because why shouldn't they be the best still like I get like Rhea Perlman didn't start suddenly start sucking or whatever, you know, so like those things I think are genuine and authentic to the spirit of awarding the best in a category that said it's also nice when the end of a series is rewarded cuz now next year there's all the suspense about whatever we're going, you know, maybe Linda Cardellini will jump right up next year. Who knows? Yeah, lastly I would say that I really enjoyed Zendaya's way. Oh, yeah, obviously, I mean and I I mean month. Me she was amazing and I was like, yes, I would love that. She won that fucking award. I didn't expect it. Yeah, and I was spoiler. I predicted it's in my tax to the other page. Just let everybody know. I was on Sunday as Trail. There's reasonable. Yes, it never expect black people to win. So, you know, that's true, especially when they're up against white people but I I did I did expect that when I think I'd love that we're having a conversation now about it being an upset and what that means. But yeah, well paid six was also I feel like partly trolling but they call there was a big article about like Zendaya's upset when at the issue is and then it devolved into people not knowing what upset when but then arguing back and forth. Like it wasn't an upset. She was the best of the year. And so we knew that she was going to win someone's Trust Em like the Emmys reward youth like so we knew she was going to win. I was like, none of that is true. The youngest woman to ever win lead actress role. Yeah also just because we know she was amazing. Does it mean like the old people voting for the job? Is our new remote that you know the upset situation though. I did just want people to go to a dictionary and look at the second definition of it. Just because you know, that would have cleared everything but also, I mean that's what Zendaya fans do unfortunately. All right, I once had to delete a comment from her Instagram when in a photo of hers and I was like I am gagging over this outfit cuz and fans are responding to me saying why are you saying that she makes you sick? Okay meet a gay person. I also just wanted to say quickly a trivia question. So easy to just said she's the youngest drama actress winner at the age of twenty-four. Do you know who the previous holder of that record was at age twenty-six was it was it in this Century? It was Anna Paquin through Thursday. It is a natural it it was actually last year's winner Jodie Comer. Oh, wow. Judy covers only 27. I know it's got mine plugs. That's so no. That's so unfair wage. Justice has to be sought out now. I really do need to kill Eve and I don't even remember. I was going to say that Michelle. Do you watch the show? It's okay. Now if you didn't know yeah, that's fine. I know I remember I watched the first season and then I was like, I don't know like the only good season and if you didn't like that one, I promise you don't like the rest cuz it spiraled out of control. All right. Well, thank God for that inside tip on the Emmys OS interviewing you today. My day will come on this podcast. No. Let me cancel the show. Trial Lewis is booked for keep it actually you know what this week is I lost episode ever wage right when we'll be right back with David Shea. This episode of keep it is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of American Horror Story and starring Emmy Award winner. Sarah Paulson. Netflix is ratchet tells me that original story of how the iconic Asylum nurse from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest Mildred ratchet came to be I just want to point out that Sarah Paulson follows two of my friends on Twitter and not me and it is on my mind constantly. I'm one of them's way does she follow you? Yeah. Well, I did interview Holland Taylor that one time right? Oh God, I wasn't here for that. My mistake ratchet is the psychological never before told stage of how a damaged woman became one of the most infamous female villains of all time this thrilling and suspenseful drama delves deep into the dark and Mysterious World of nineteen forties psychiatric hospitals were new and unsettling experiments check on patients have forced Mildred Ratched to reckon with her past. And anyone that stands in her way. Is it Mercy Madness or both ratchet has a star-studded cast filled with Femme Fatale per month. Frances from Cynthia Nixon Sharon Stone Judy Davis my Queen Alice Englert always a fan Sophie Okonedo Oscar nominee. Tony winner Amanda Plummer. Oh my God. Have you seen the fisher? King only? She's like the highlight of it secretly and Sarah Paulson herself has Mildred ratchet by the way, Louise Fletcher is still around celebrate Louise Fletcher. Don't miss this thrilling new series from executive producer Ryan Murphy and Ian Brennan watch ratchet. Now only on Netflix keep it is brought to you by ZipRecruiter hiring can be challenging the zip recruiter makes it fast and easy one. CEO said you needed to hire for a multi-faceted role at his wallpaper company walls need love. They really do a lie. He was looking for someone who was the right fit for his team and culture. But his search was slow going well with Prince Ali fabulous. He turns his ZipRecruiter. Just for you. Huru, powerful matching technology identifies the right people for your job and actively invites them to apply which is why you should try zip recruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com. Keep it that's how early found Savannah Rae. Mhm. Good old Savannah Rae. How do you say about Savannah? Well, at least Savannah skills and experience were a great mass for the wrong. Plus she applied within a few days after he posted the job. Go ahead Savannah Georgia has hide everyone from his head of marketing to his sales director to his lead graphic designer, but he's not the only employer who loves it recruiter off. I got to do an accents now, too. Oh, no, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day so see for yourself how ZipRecruiter makes hiring faster and easier. Try it now for free. That's right free and ziprecruiter.com. Keep it that's ziprecruiter.com long Cabot. Our first guest today is a well-known never been able to use the word tycoon in restaurant speak, but it feels appropriate now. I always think of the word Tycoon just with that game Roller Coaster Tycoon. Oh, yeah. But yeah, if you're pretending that's the first use of the word it's not but okay, but truly you're like the acclaimed founder and Chef of Momofuku restaurant group host of Netflix ugly delicious. And now you have a memoir eat a peach David Chang, you're doing it all and we love the book Thank you so much honor to be on your podcast and change that you guys have read the book. It's I don't know why I should be surprised but it's it's very startling. It's full of such casual insights about your personality to one of my favorite Parts. Yep. Is you say there's no such thing as a TMI email in terms of your business in terms of what like employees are talking about Etc. And I want like you you will take any insight about what's happening in any sector of the restaurant and and probably store it and remember it. Just what are your favorite like emails you've gotten from staff just about what's happening in a restaurant. I'm sure that actually ends up fostering like a super social environment with his customer interactions that that that's my favorite or something unbelievably stupid that someone did like a cooking disaster. Those are those are always the best ones probably my favorite thing is when a manager is riding a log at the end of the night and it's been an incredibly tough day for them, you know, they still find a way to crack a joke, whatever joke and and usually it's funny cuz I feel like the restaurant industry at least for me. It's been less about the cooking over the years then who can be the funniest person in the room. Well also even in a situation Just like talking about what happened during the day. I feel like jokes are necessary because this this sounds philosophical. I don't mean it to be but like sense of humor is like truth-telling. So I'm sure it just brings you all closer together makes the restaurant better off go ahead and wax wax comedic Louis speaking of emails and he was really interesting to me in the part in your book where you were talking about the anxious emails that you were sending to your staff in preparation for Annie. She's visit from Pete Wells and I really like it was interesting to see the underbelly the under pork belly. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to start off the underbelly of of your operation and how you interact with your staff and you know how that critique deeply affected you I wanted to know are you going down any holes with the eat a peach reviews? Nothing you have any reason to but how are you doing with that? Of course, I've I've read them all. You know, it's it's just I mean, I'm a glutton for punishment and I don't really remember anything that's positive. I only remember the ones that are like this sucks. So I thought that day Chang was an asshole. Now. I know for sure. He's an asshole or something like that. No. No, it's it's a strange thing. I think that was my reluctance of doing a memoir was not again that what's wrong with me type of why would I want to write about myself that's a whole different topic but a lot of people hate us and it's not because it's poorly written what if it's really well-written but people like I hate it because I I think he sucks that's really a possibility and and and I'm glad that that's not the case if anything people are like, yeah, he sucked but he's working on becoming a better person so that I thought I can a sympathetic draw. Yes. Yeah. I mean even just thinking about that, you know, I feel like the book Taps into the idea that when we think of famous chefs, especially to like the outside people who aren't really, you know, part of the restaurant industry. Like when we think of shuts we largely think of this culture of like a chef who is sort of like a they yell at everyone in the kitchen, you know, it's like oh that is the kind of person you think of when you think of a chef and it's easy to see that like in pop culture too. And I guess my question is just sort of like, what is it like coming up wage in that culture knowing that like that is a thing that is generally like rewarded like people are used to like a chef like that and like what made you sort of become a person where you are like, I want to become like a different kind of Chef cuz there's parts of the book to where you talk about. How like you remember in the past, you know, like a diner would be and like that one review from the diner when they talked about like they were unworthy. The book was like you yelled at someone on the line while they were sitting there dieting. I don't know if it's it was like an immediate Awakening and the way I I tell myself and you you know. At least sometimes it's it's if you can sort of understand a scenario that I think a lot of people can understand or been in the smelly kid growing up. Never knew they smell right right totally relatable. I was a smelly cat that was like blaming everyone else for the smell that motherfucker over there. Are you fucking sting off and it's a painful realization when you realize that oh my God, you are the one or maybe you weren't the one that smelled but you were the reason that other people smelled bad or something along those lines right off her. It was when you realized that it's hard not to look at your past and be like, man. How was I so stupid and selfish and just ignorant and just an asshole and you know, and I think I've been in that position to where that painful truth is. So often helpful and you put your head in the sand because it's it's too much to comprehend but I think it's something that you can't avoid in you're going to have to face that one day and that's that's ultimately what happened with me and you know that it's just, you know, this terrible odor is lingering and and no amount of perfumes going to get rid of that. You're just going to have to like, you know deal with it properly and that's the ultimate realization that I have to come to and but it's not even in the sense of you know, are there just like past relationships with other chefs or like people who come into the restaurant, you know, like the moment where you're sort of like trying to let people know that like, oh, this is a different David Chang than like the one that you've used to interact with, you know, because I could think that like the process of becoming a better a different person, you know is is is always interesting wage. Your brain knows that like I've been going to therapy like I've worked on these things with myself, right? But people that you run into like if they haven't seen you in like three years, you know, like they don't know that and you can't do anything about that. I think for a long time people still thought and people still think that I'm probably the I'm noxious asphalt from age 27 day like 29, right? We're just stuck in that world this mentality that were always of that age in of that mentality and I can't do anything about that. The worst thing you can do is say look at me I've changed. I think the only thing you can do is let your actions speak for yourself. And the thing is too is just because you know doesn't mean again it's actionable. Yeah, right just because I know that I change it because I know that I have problems just because I've worked at it doesn't mean that I'm accustomed to actually making it part of my fabric of who I am every day. And and the reality is that whoever I am as a person that is unsavory in some ways. That's like my normal. Volte settings now and I think in the book and not just in the book, I like in my rage in my anger and a lot of my non neuroses, but just my general mental problems that are not depression related to being sort of I guess some of its related depression to being an addict right and if you have friends that have addiction issues whether they be drugs or something else, you know, it's funny in society now today if you have a friend that's an alcoholic or recovering force a heroin or opioid addiction and they fall off the wagon, but you know, they're in Earnest, you know, they're trying they're not trying to use it as a crutch. They're literally trying you don't tell them, you know screw off can't believe you failed again, you know, you suck. I can't believe you fell off the wagon again. I think that right now it's a long time, but I hopefully people can appreciate the the Nuance wage. In this in a world where there's little Nuance, especially in social media. How do you determine that someone's intent is right because it's something that I've learned again over the past few years is with the kitchen. I tend to judge everything on absolutes that works in coding that works in science that doesn't work in human interaction and and honest offer a whole school of philosophy where you know, if you try to apply science and academic rigor to that that's how the world goes sideways. That's how you get to tal itarian governments. That's how you get Nazi Germany and shit like a that right? Like I know that's a crazy, you know statement but in some ways it's easy to do because it's so reductive and you could be like, well you should act this way because it makes sense but it doesn't account for how we learn at least that's how I believe it. I personally learn from screwing up and having the time the privilege to reflect and to be told hey you didn't do this, right and this is now compounded wage. More now that I'm a father right? I think the hardest thing to be as a person has to be present. I think being present is the ultimate end goal we can have photonic ideals as like North Stars wasn't me? Like there's only one way to get there and being present as a father being present as a manager being present as a chef those same ideals to me or like what makes like the best version of like democracy like you have to build the right framework. You have to build a sand box which is ultimately like a constitution, you know, the culture of how you do your family how you do your business. These are the things that you sort of instinct But ultimately you have to give people the freedom of choice and you can only hope in aggregate in your decisions in your lifetime. Then you make more right decisions than wrong. And that's the hardest thing to do is to not intervene. Right? But all your work needs to be done prior to that and that's impossibly hard to do and that's sort of what I'm track focus on is myself and hopefully other people will let me do that too is is like if you judge me on one thing that I've done poorly then yeah, you're right. I'm a fucking terrible motherfuker, but first of all, you should be I mean not to say that right now and then second. Secondly you were just being self-deprecating about having written a memoir like that was a memoir unto itself. You just popped Memoirs not even thinking about it off but something I've been thinking about for a long time now ever since the Advent of probably Top Chef is what is it about chefs. That is so telegenic literally any show you watch I think bush has chefs on it. Like they are routinely brilliantly expressive. They are memorable and then weirdly food, which is something you can only consume in the present in person if you will wage, It's still works as a t show and I'm wondering like what I was watching ugly delicious just the other night. I was thinking like why is this good? Why can't I sit through this when it's literally about something I cannot consume. Can you explain that well-off on the chef? And I don't know. I mean, maybe it's because they have a combination of extremely high emotional intelligence and Incredibly low awareness package perfect for television. It's also possible that there's a tendency in a correlation of being like borderline sociopath and telegenic on T. I don't know off speaker and on the food and I think it's it's clear that as food has just increased its Awareness on T and social media it is because in some ways the cultural currency of a younger generation because it is the definition of foma. I'm eating this and you cannot and you can't download this on an app store purchase. You can't like this you can like this but you can't meet this that's never going to change its which is why is in culture right now is sort of transfixed on what food can be because it can't be what else is in culture right now. I mean speaking of fucking fomo. I was re-watching ugly delicious episode and I I fully had money grants to go to like Noma this year, you know, and now the pandemic happened and then I'm watching that and it's just reminding you of like you're seeing you saying restaurants that you want to go to say you're seeing like food that just like looks so fucking good and it's like, well, I can't go especially now cuz we're in the middle of a pandemic and sort of like, what is that like for I mean your restaurants are open for lunch takeout right now. Yeah, some are some are dining in and and I don't want to depress the audience on the on the Dismal dystopian future of restaurants here in America. What makes it off. Or depressing actually is when you see restaurants in other parts of the world like Copenhagen Denmark where there's like no transmission of covid-19. You didn't have to wear masks. Hmm. That is what's like stretching to be is you can go to normal right now. If you if you want to go there and people are eating normal. It's like normal. Yeah friend. Did he just moved to Copenhagen truly two months before the pandemic he moved there for a job and now he's like, well, I'm here. Yeah, hit the lottery. I hate your friend took a hip Alex cab. I never want to meet you ever and your boobs are my restaurants if you ever make it back you married off, but no it's it's it's this whole situation is incredibly depressing because not being able to go out to eat having to eat dog. That you might get sick or even if that's not true anymore, but just the fear that takes all potential possibilities of true Hospitality away off and how can you do your job in a you know a fog of fear and it's it's unfortunate and and it's I have friends in all in restaurants all over the world and I can't believe that our leadership in this country. Obviously, you know your network talks about it a lot. It's so incredibly bad and how they responded you the hospitality sector. It just shows you what's important to them. And and it's it's a I cannot actually comprehend how poor the response has been across the board but we're going to lose tremendous amount of restaurants. Let alone not even travel right? So I'm not even focusing too much on what's happening outside of the world because it makes me quite upset. Yeah. To the running list of failures from this Administration, but you know, I speaking of it in your book. I'd be remiss not to mention how open and vulnerable you are when you talk about your bipolar disorder, which is 1 something I struggle to do because I I want to add like an Arab honesty when I talk about my bipolar disorder, but you know, you don't want people to know that you have these highs and lows and they're not allowed them to judge you on that which is the opposite of what you do in this book. You're very honest about it and what I'd never seen before is someone talking so openly about how their Mania isn't inherently bad and that it has its upsides and how it propels you to get shit done and I wanted to know especially when you're opening Momofuku for the first time. How did you use the manic side of you to propel you to success? Well, first of all, thank you for sharing with everybody, you know your struggles and I mean, these are the things the the steps that are needed where you know, ultimately the goal is to have people look at any kind of mental illness as having asthma Right. It's it's not something that you should be ashamed about and in terms of me being open about it. I think it was not always like this. It was years of therapy and the first you know several I didn't want to tell anybody and now you know, those that are close to me when you tell them they're like, oh, yeah, that's what makes total sense. You know, I mean, I know part of them over the years I was a little bit more open to it is, you know people I would never been shy about telling people that I saw a psychiatrist but a lot of people when you add probably five people over sixteen years that adds up every year someone seems to come up to me and say hey Dave, you're fucking crazy. It seems like you get help. What do I do? Right and and the fact that it's impossible to get help. It seems It's So Hard even now I'm a name in Los Angeles, and I need to get a new psychiatrist just to prescribe medicine. I have called three psychiatrists from my internist in Los Angeles and not one has called me back. Besides like multiple calls. It's it's a very hard to get help in general. I think and more more so than ever and in terms of how the media has helped me. You can't connect those dots too much money and you have no idea when you're in it, right and and their moments where I look back and I'm just sort of like, oh my God, how how was I even behaving that way? I need the hardest thing to admit is that you have faith agency in how you behave But ultimately know and and not having control of that and knowing that there's someone else, you know, pulling the levers and the steering the wheel is frightening so I don't really look bad at life on me. I'm more like how do I do to move this and see that there are some positives and at the end of the day one who's and I've been open about it is, you know, more and more. I look at everything as an eye either-or proposition. It's like who cares, you know, I mean like like who cares no one ultimately is going to Care in in in maybe if I'm more honest about it. It will actually help where people won't wage. Should have got yeah, I mean I have to imagine too that what is helpful too is just projects things to do, you know and like you're you have a lot of projects but even just like being a chef and cook a gang it's probably something to focus on you know, I feel like one especially during this pandemic so many people have started cooking themselves even more than they used to I know I have found this this weekend for the inmates. Actually. I made the chicken wings from the Momofuku cookbook. I think I saw that I think you were the only person in the world that took home and took a whole weekend and I made sure to read it cuz I had read the first line first where it said like this is the longest chicken wings recipe of the world. So I was like, okay, so I whatever I do I better start this on like Friday and they turned out they turned out fucking great. So thank you. You're welcome. Did you save the jelly I did it is dead. And my friend never throw that away that's Liquid Gold. Yeah, I do have to do it with confit next time. Yeah. Now that I have that I'm shocked cuz I would never make that recipe at home ever off. But but you're right in terms of which is why I have maybe like this profound love and hatred of my profession is because it does provide me with many opportunities to work my ass off to give me unrealistic goals that are very tangible, right but seemed impossible which was like, I thought so much of who I am what I do to mountain climbing even though I don't find mountains, which is obviously a reference on the book because it's like, yeah, I could climb that mountain top. I don't know how fucking how I'll do it. But theoretically I could page and fact that that is an impossible yet tangible goal is how I frame a lot of these things that happen whether it's making one recipe because inherently as you see I'm a lazy person. I don't know. Do it myself but throughout my career. I've made myself. He's really tall tasks that are so hard. If I don't pour myself into it won't even might get close to being accomplish and yet by doing that it prevents me from sort of worrying about myself and and the self-loathing that I'm so good at. So I also recognize that by doing that it is very problematic because it prevents you from enjoying anything else, you know, you become single-minded focus on something that's impossible that it doesn't allow you to enjoy the good times right you're is just it can be debilitating right and and you're like, why why why did I do all of that work? Because ultimately I think for me without trying to watch philosophic about it again, everything should be in Pursuit of Happiness and why am I if I can doing this if it's also been making me more unhappy and I'm currently in that predicament right now, so I'm still working my ass off on a dog. At a place where I'm just re-evaluating a lot of things. Well, thank you so much for being here. Got it. I made week we could there's so much more we could have even talked to you about the the Memoirs great home. And by the way, you will just like I don't mean to be cheeky swallow it up. So fucking fast. It is a lovely lovely devour it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a it's a great read and I can't honestly can't wait to get back to New York because not noodle bar fuku is one of my faves. I honestly I first had that chicken sandwich at Palm Beach Ella. Oh, yeah Beyonce's Coachella. I went cuz that was my first Coachella there was I was like gotta go see Beyonce and I remember where like in this like 10, like there's all these different restaurants and like people are just like walk in line for this fucking chicken sandwich and I was like, you know what I'm doing it and then we got in line for it and I was like, this is so fucking no idea. You are a real supporter so far, but yep. So maybe one of the last things I should have been eating at a musical world when I was a little drunk. I consider you a chicken sandwich in either the bravest thing you've ever done. It's exciting. Well guys, it was a real pleasure to be here. Thank you for being great hosts and so easy to talk to you also. Thank you. And again, thanks for making chicken recipes and the support. Thank you for reading the book and I'm very grateful. Thank you for coming on. Yeah sure dead sleep. It is brought to you by drop off if you're doing any shopping at all this week. Make sure you check out the drop at before you shop drop is the easiest to use Rewards app that gives you points back for shopping at all. Your favorite Brands. I'm talking about a Starbucks. You know, I have to get my cold dead. I'm talking about a Kat Von D eyeliner at Sephora a burrito bowl from Chipotle. 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When you sign up for the chef via the app store or Google play with code keep it your bonus will be deposited in your account. Once you earn your first one thousand points on the app, that's code. Keep it to kick-start your earning on drop today. Keep it is brought to you by blinkist. Let me tell you about my secret weapon for learning new things and getting ahead, especially when we're dealing with that damn know-it-all Louis virtel on this show. I know I know gorilla can't keep up talk about keep it. I can't keep up. It's hard to find time to sit down and read and learn more when you don't have free time. You can't read or work off. Personal development but there's an incredible app that solves this problem and highly recommend it. 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You always meant to read but never had time to and we're talking about nine months. Fiction here. Okay blinkers not catching you up on Little Women or All the Pretty Horses. You'll never be Lord of the Flies. Okay, I like blinkist because look girl I don't have time and that's just the honesty of it all. I don't have time. So I gotta turn this on when I'm driving when I'm trying to make a smoothie maybe considering working out and then deciding not to do it should blink is really just saved me a lot of time I can get through a book and learn the key takeaways of the book in about 15 minutes and I can go reiterate them in my little Zoom party my little Zoom happy hour as if I read the whole book. Guess what I didn't I didn't books from people like Mister Richard Branson, you know or Jared diamond or she said by Jodi Kantor and Meghan, toohey because you get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of condensed non-fiction books. All the books you want and all for one low price right now for a limited time blink is has a special offer just for our audience go to a gym. Try it free for seven days and save 25% off your new subscription. That's blinkist spelled blinkist home last keep it to start your free 7-Day trial and you'll also save 25% off. But only when you sign up at blinkist.com keep it Our next guest became a household name playing villains on Heroes and America found story. And now he's one of the stars of Netflix as boys in the band reprising a role. He played on Broadway, please welcome back to keep it. Yeah Zachary Quinto song. Okay everybody. I didn't Louis were there when I came on the first time. It was just you know, yeah. It was just being you in something like building in sure and let Santa go around there. I remember coming there was funny anyway, and then subsequently you we we've hung out a number of times since then, so it's nice to see you back on your show off. One of the last times was at a restaurant that has now closed down is it? Yeah, we went to mansur which is right used to be right next to Akbar in, Georgia. Silver Lake and it close like three weeks ago where they trying to like do takeout Etc. And then they just they were actually because like I've I passed I drove by once and people were lined up a yeah, I feel like I remember seeing that not too long ago as well. But I guess it's not enough to keep a restaurant going and that was also such a destination. I feel like the going there was part of the experience so it might not it might not translate as well to doordash your urine. You're back in La now after living in New York forever. That's right. I'm back for now. You know, I'm I still have my choice in the city and and I feel like I don't know. I mean, I just feel there's this part of me right now. That's really missing New York because all my friends that I'm talking to are, you know, I think really enjoying the last gasp of Summer and warm weather and being able to be out in the street with all the restaurants and I've gotten some photos from my neighborhood that really make me miss it and make me recognize the way in which there's this club Or connectivity in this the way that New Yorkers show up for one another feels pretty palpable back there right now. So I've been missing a little bit but I had been planning to come out to LA. Anyway before the pandemic and sewn now that I saw window to make the move and I just decided to jump on it. And now that it's turning to fall and winter I have I have no desire to be back in New York in the midst of all this it's it's really I'm I'm going to keep it from it. So yeah, I'm back and Brace the isolated snark of l a. I I assure you it will edify you through these difficult times. Absolutely. I feel like it's a I don't know it's just as I was saying, I find it like an easier place to be and so I'm enjoying it as much as I can without, you know, there there has to be I think a foundation of recognizing how fortunate we are to live life than go on Hikes and take the dogs out and stuff. I mean, there's so many people in the country and around the world who don't have that luxury. So I I want to always be reminded of that for sure. I was I was ecstatic to see dead. Boys in the band because I had only seen the movie before which I had seen actually a couple of times because as I've seen you talk about in interviews, it is a fascinating artifact because it is first of all just needs a play about gay guys hanging out. So you're just like watching like like what it looks like for gay guys and like those striped pants people like, you know hooked up with like Roddy McDowell or whoever was sucked out at that time and like just watching them enjoy themselves and then it turns into this much more dramatic thing in the latter half. But what fascinated you just about boys in the band before you took the role of it, and I know you were off to take the part at first. Yeah. I had never seen I still haven't seen the original movie because I hadn't seen it when I got invited to do the place. So I didn't think that was a very good time to watch it and then shortly after the play-offs. I we talked about our movies, so I thought well, I don't want to watch it until I know whether we're making a movie of it and then obviously we did so now I guess after are you know, now I'm safe to to watch the original birth. I was really resistant to it. I I fell under the influence of a lot of the stigma that's been associated with this play over the years and I had never seen it. I had maybe read some scenes of it. I hadn't ever really read it from beginning to end. So I really occupy the space of this ignorant gay who was like that that old thing like I just allowed the association's of it being the kind of reductive stereotypical backward-looking museum piece to influence me and how wrong I was and how how how the experience of doing the play and now the movie has really changed my position and really allowed me to deepen an appreciation for Mart and for the seminal work. So what attracted me to it was ultimately the people right? I've been really want need work with Joe mantello for many years on stage and you know, I've been friends for a long time and the opportunity to be in one of his Productions and you know, I went to college with Matt Bomer and I've been friends with wage To Charlie and Brian Hutchison, and I've you know known Jim and Andrew for years. So there was there was a kind of camaraderie that existed from the beginning that that really pulled me into the experience. And even though I'm a little resistant to It ultimately I was like with all of these guys are doing this and excited about doing this then I must be the odd man out and and I don't want to miss an opportunity and and I'm certainly glad that I that I made the decision I made I would be kicking myself right now. If I was just watching it all unfold and not a part of it. Yeah. I mean, I'm of course glad that you did the movie as well and the Play-Off funny. This movie does does such a good job of transporting you to that time and that era and the the feeling probably a feeling I wouldn't have ever been afforded because I can't really imagine myself in that space. Like I was telling Luis prior to this I had to do so much deciphering in the dialogue to understand but what was going on and probably because I wasn't a gay man in the in the 1960s and I'm assuming normal, which is what I currently am. Yeah, which is dead. Right exactly Louis either of you two men were like time-traveling warlocks. I would not be confused right wait for it. What was it like for you getting into the character of Harold was here recognizable person. Do you do you know any Harold's I know people who make up an amalgam, you know like that are part of an amalgam. That is Harold. I don't know one specific Harold the way that Mark did. All right Harold is based on a real life person named Howard Jeffrey who is Mark probably best friend and Nemesis. And and so it was a it was a real joy to be able to talk to Marty about his relationship with Howard and to learn a lot about the character through those conversations. And then there's also just there's the kind of person that Harold is which is a deeply self-aware also self-loathing person who has who is actually transformed that self-loathing into a kind of power off. Because he's faced it all within himself. And and I really appreciate that about him. He's incredibly observant. He's unafraid to say what he thinks in the most Acid found way. So there's a kind of delight in playing a character like that. It's pretty different from who I am in my real life. So I feel like it was it was a great opportunity to explore that and have fun with it. But I think we've all met a Herald or two in our day. I haven't we boys maybe when midnight rolls around I go to like a who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf place where like maybe maybe the barbs come out. Maybe it's not as nice send-off. Okay, right. No, I think that's maybe that's tomorrow. Now that out. First of all, I love your Lucas Harold because you you look like a young Elliott Gould is very Elliott Gould then it's what time Really enjoyed about watching it. It's just remembering how Mark must have been writing from this place where one down there aren't representations of gay men on theater at all, you know, like there aren't films of it and then, you know the play, that you have good actors in it. And then you have the movie calm down and then he was involved too. I think with the Revival before he died earlier this year and so recognizing things that feel familiar, I guess it's a gay man, but also just seeing how things have changed and I really love not to ruin the story that's been around forever for people who do still need to Discover it but it starts out very fun and then jumps to being acidic but the ending between you and Jim Parsons sort of shows that like these been who could wage Go on this Merry-Go-Round with one another can can still be like alcohol you tomorrow right still be like Matt Bomer to jump Parts. This is like I'll still see you next week, you know, and I think that life is a beautiful sort of precursor to where we all sort of can be now, you know, because you can see whether it's Media or other reality T things where it's like I think that gay men should be like that with one another all the time and I think that the end of boys in the band really shows that where we can be and we're both of us are now, you know, and and I don't especially like a post therapy Universe. Yeah, you know and I think a lot of our anger too, you know, like doesn't come at least from that innate self-loathing that game and probably had in, you know, the mid sixties. Yeah, they didn't really have anywhere to put it outside of their own inner circles. So it had To be able to withstand those relationships had to be able to withstand that kind of expression of rage and resentment and because outside of the door of the apartment, they weren't safe in the same way that they were inside and you know, I think there's something Universal about these characters and and ultimately they're they're longing for kind of accepted and so longing for a kind of opportunity to see themselves in the world around them. And and I don't think that's an entirely different from today whether you're gay or straight or manage woman or how you identify or you know, I think everybody is looking for that kind of acceptance. And so beyond the fact that this story told through the lens of the gay male experience. I think it's something that that Taps into something a little bit more. I think it's a story that types. It is something a little bit more resonant than that and certainly something that I can relate to even even now one of my favorite things about this place. And movie is the references the characters make their in which I'm sure required a lot of wicking on your part specifically they something that trip me up. Was that recently I sent the Wikipedia of Berea Montes to somebody who was a child actress was called Cobra woman and it comes up in the play and I'm like, oh wait. I have no original thoughts like every game. I know it existed as like laid the groundwork. So how much research did it required to like just understand like what the fuck they were talking about at times. Yeah. Well we had you know, we had a great there there was such a spirit of our own interests among the cast and that was one of the joys of being you know, a group of nine openly gay actors playing these roles and so we kind of filled in blanks for one another and you said there were certainly things we had to research and and again it comes back to the great Good Fortune. We had to have more around right and and really, you know as involved in the process as we age Wanted him or needed him to be he was incredibly excited obviously and and and really gained to have these conversations with us about specific historical references and all about his own personal experience of writing the play and I mean, I'd find the story of how he how he came to write the play pretty incredible and and and pretty strong indication of where things were socially at the time there was a New York Times theater critic named Stanley Kaufman who had written an article impugning the gay playwrights of that time. So Tennessee Williams and William Inge and Ed wage will be for taking the gay experience and appropriating it to heterosexual relationships and you know these sort of grand characters of the American Theater like Blanche Dubois Bertha and who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, you know, these were substitutes for the gay experience. And so Stanley Kaufman really impugned them and and was like, you know, and and my dog Read this article that was all about how you know gay playwrights should just tell their own stories and leave, you know, heterosexual marriages alone and Mark kind of thought to himself. Yeah, why why hasn't anyone told this story about a group of gay friends hanging out and that's what prompted him to write this play which I find, you know, really fiery in its own way and that that's the beginning of this whole journey is a pretty significant contribution not only to the theater but to I think the evolution of gay identity and integration in terms of Storytelling and representation. So how long were really fortunate to have him and obviously all really saddened by the fact that we don't have him anymore to share this experience of the movie coming out but he was on set he was there last summer we were filming and and I know that he was wrong thrilled about it. And and so that's at least some small consolation. That's such an interesting convo cuz I think we've talked about that before just this idea of gaming of the time having to you age. With like women and heterosexual relationships as avatars for queerness. It's so it's so weird watching like a Suddenly Last Summer. I watched the film for the first time home and seeing like just like if you don't know that this film is about that secret is this man is actually gay like you're watching it and you're just like what the fuck are these people talking about? Cuz they're talking around things that in the sixties would have been like, oh that's what they mean. But for us now, it's just like seems like people are being vague, but it's just interesting to think about that that storytelling cuz that conversation I think was even coming up recently with some people with with slight play, you know, it was cuz Jeremy o Harris wrote a play that was a lot inspired by home his experience, you know in interracial relationships, but the lead of it ended up being a woman but that's a lot to say about you know, like are gay men. Are we are can you even still have like a gay lead with religious? Looks like that and have it go to Broadway the way that plays would now, you know, I think you can tell like The Inheritance and you know boys in the band can work as a Revival cuz they already known networks, but it just made me think like what a regular just sort of romance play, you know work. Yeah interesting. If it's not a Revival or it's not a kind of Epic tale of a certain period in history like the AIDS epidemic or you know, like the inheritance did I wonder I'm sure I guess if you get big enough Stars it probably do you mean in the end but at this point the state of the American Theater I think is so deeply influx that it will be very interesting to see what happens when we come back from this whenever that may be and how may be tur has changed and evolved in ways because of this long Hiatus also because of the black lives matter movement and the you know the subsequent so yep. Uprising that's taken place and the acknowledgement of the the institution of theater being historically white supremacist and racist in its own unique way. I think it will be really interesting to see what kind of stories are are being told and I can't wait for it. I'm so bereft of of the theater. It's really the hardest part of this is like I get these These Memories of like walking dead in New York on my way to see a play or on the train or having finished seeing something that deeply moved me and just kind of walking around the city and its really that's those are the hardest things to shake, you know, cuz I thought you all but for me this. Has been a lot about staying with what's happening right now. I can't get too far outside of my own experience because if I do I start to open my own mind up to things that I wish were or used to be or you know may never be again and and and it can kind of invite him to take the essential Despair and those memories of birth. Theater certainly hairline triggers that that I'm you know, struggling against one of the last things I did really was like a weekend in New York. Oh it is a weekend before but had to go back and like I saw three plays and so they're all still there. What did you see? What I saw a Little Shop of Horrors. Oh, yeah, Jonathan already left it off and that I saw him in that months ago. I saw in it too. Cuz that's one of my favorite musicals. Yeah on that. I saw six. Yeah and I saw Tina the musical. Okay cool, which was amazed. I took a little shop. I didn't see six or Tina, but I really I was I was just getting ready to start a like Marathon the night before they shut Broadway down. I I had seen off West Side Story. I was so excited for the Revival of Caroline or change which is one of my favorite songs of all time. And so I had tickets for that. I had you know, I was really it was the spring seeds. Everything was about to open and I was like, so yeah, it's it's tough to it's tough to be faced with those empty theaters and all those Marquis that are kind of baking in the Sun and who knows when they'll be back. Yeah. I was going to ask you about the end of the movie and that's funny because the the play itself really could be called waiting for Harold in the way that I'm waiting and waiting for you to appear at the birthday guest. There is a scene prior to your parents where a potentially closeted man attacks another partygoer and I think about that moment a lot because even though it was a causative it causes separation that conflict is resolved almost immediately and everyone can continue with the festivities as nothing happened and it made me have to shift my understandings of what masculinity looked like in a culture and to Iris Point earlier how easy it is to kind of come back from fighting. We're we're both gay men and I wanted to ask you is that something that you think also translates to your life and you're expecting This is with other gay men. Is that is that something that crosses over like what a great question. I mean, what a great observation about the story as well because they do resolve it and proceed with, you know, it's a pretty significant turning point. It's a pretty significant attack so to speak and and everybody does regain composure relatively quickly. I mean my relationships in the world aren't reflective of the kinds of relationships in this piece per se I don't I don't have a lot of conflict or if I have conflict I try to resolve it. May I direct Manner and with some modicum of respect and kind of discourse rather than like attacking someone or you know, if I am attacked I try to get to what's underneath things done as quickly as I can so that you can resolve a situation not just symptomatically, but systemically, so for me, I mean, I don't really hold grudges wage. Don't really hold grudges against anybody per se but it's a good question in terms of like are we conditioned? I mean from hearing the question right? Are we conditioned to kind of bounce back from things change? Is there either either a resilience or a a version to conflict or an aversion to kind of deep conflict that keeps us from allowing ourselves to go there. I can only speak for myself. I think which is Thursday that if I have to go there I will yeah. The question is actually Zachary Quinto. Do you like to fight like to fight? It's pretty much how you doing want to start eating wants to start a fight club as well as long as we can but we will be talking about because we can do that after after our dogs ball tournament. I I don't like to fight. I like to I like to process of how about that and if the processing requires difficult conversations or conflict and I'm willing to I'm willing to go there. I Won't Back Down if I'm provoked off. Speaking of not backing down. I think if you was constantly acting around an extraordinary company of actors and most projects you do really and I think of Margin Call specifically because of the number of great actors in it, but I was wondering what the issue is learning experience for you as an actor that we have seen is wow. This is a good questions all I think I mean, I think Margin Call actually that you you bring it up and and I think it was a seminal moment for me, the first movie I produced So Not only was I did I have the great Good Fortune of being in the company of those incredible people someone who now are less incredible than they were them more really gets better. But not only did I have the opportunity to learn from watching them and working with them, but I also had the opportunity to put that thing together and make sure that you know, their flights will not personally but you know overseeing the idea that like everybody was where they needed to be and had what they needed and there was this kind of wage That was a real trial by fire for me because if if anything went wrong with any of those top-notch folks, you know, I felt responsible and in a way that I wouldn't if I was just showing up on set to do my part as an actor. So I would say I learned a great deal and I really cut my teeth as a producer in in that experience but by and large, I think the most often with I've done as an actor tends to be on stage. So my experience working with just on Tiffany and Tori Jones from doing The Glass Menagerie my experience, uh doing angels in America with Michael greif and Christian Borel and and and an incredible company of actors. I only mention Christian cuz you saw a Little Shop of Horrors, but you know, those those exchanges for me there's something about working in in the theater. It's a slower process right? But I I liken it to kind of wind eroding Stone, you know over time. Like showing up in the same place every night saying standing the same spot saying the same thing. There's a kind of depth that comes from that level of devotion and that level of surrender that I find the most transformative whereas with film and television. You're really working you're working with instincts. You're working to capture a moment that will live forever. But it only existed for a brief fleeting second off and there's it's own kind of alchemy in that but for me the kind of growth that I see that's lasting and measurable. It happens more in those long form processes over time when I'm in rehearsal and on stage for a long time, if you find if I find myself acting on stage next to Cherry Jones, you better believe I'm acting my ass off. I will I'm being around we have no choice. You know, she just wonder if she just wonder if there may God bless her. I think I'm he's on accident. She's like whatever I win again, you know, I think she is. I mean, she's very she's she's a real serious such a she's really dead. In it for the work and and I think whatever part of her enjoys the winning is the part of her that knows that it means she gets to keep doing what she loves but she would give them is away too. I mean, I think she did give her her first Emmy for 24 like to the crew. I think she was like here you guys go you can have my I mean, I don't know if she asked for it back, but I know they had it for a while. I thought I'd love that phone call from Jerry like okay, I needed back. Yeah. Lastly I would guess that we were talking about how Martin unfortunately is no longer with us, but we're they're interesting stories that like you heard from him one that stuck with young X. I know that like I was looking up the creation of boys in the band in general and he wrote it while he was Natalie Woods has assistant and she seems wild dog. Yeah, yeah, he and Natalie Wood were Incredibly Close for her whole life and Natalie's daughter Natasha Volkswagen. ER is marked goddaughter and was you know around and involved in the production of the play with him. And you know, I just think my favorite experiences of art where when Joe mantello would organize this kind of Broadway. Like let's meet at Sardi's on Thursday nights after the after everybody's play. And so the second floor of Sardis would be taken over by various companies from Broadway and just you know, people that were around that would hear about it or get invited and and mark would come to those and he would just sort of he would find somebody usually in our cast who would see him and they would sort of you know start talking and then you'd see like a couple of other people trickle over and then they'd eventually find a booth and sit down and and Mart would just kind of hold them. I had court, you know, he was not a he was not an ostentatious man, but he was he was incredibly full of life, you know, he was sober and and so I'm really enjoyed hearing him talk about you know, he got sober to write boys in the band. My understanding is he didn't stay sober at that point, but then he you know got sober later for the majority of his life and I love talking to him about that about you know, cuz I'm also sober we would talk about you know, what that Journey was and the challenges of living in the world that we live in and you know the community that we live in and what it's like to have a perspective that's not influenced by substance and yet you know, this play is all about that right display is all about the the kind of Shadow and the Darkness that can be Unleashed when when people kind of get lost in their cups and I feel like that was something that might had a really beautiful perspective on and I really always appreciate a table. About that and he'd spilled some T about, you know, those people and talk about Howard Jeffrey and kind of what a tricky person he was and you know how you know, they would get into income times and they would say horrible horrible things to one another and then they'd end it with like, you know where we're going for lunch tomorrow. And and I think he really captures that in the Journey of our play but that was one of my favorite things about especially during the movie was kind of embodying that I love when I get to lose myself or get super stoned or super drunk or you know, unstaged cuz it's the only place that happens anymore, So, um, I love doing that. I love doing that in the film and I felt like I was kind of honoring some some aspect of all those people that this craving for something that they were just looking for job in all the wrong places. And yeah, but mart mart was I mean look the fact that we've got to stand behind him as he accepted his Tony Award for best Revival is is the most indelible part of this whole month. As enriching as it was and as exciting as it was and as much as I love doing the work, you know that night and that moment for him and the fact that he got to fully experience life, you know was the coolest part of it all and and it is sad that he's not here to see people experience the movie but but I know that he was excited about it. And I know that was really thrilled that we got to do it. So, you know, we put it out into the world in his memory and with so much love and gratitude for him. He was a real Force, you know, he should have gotten an Emmy for producing heartbreak to be we should have it's true fantastic T show or literally holds up with also Natalie Woods first and third husband Robert Wagner Wagner. Yes. I know you don't have to tell me about heart-to-heart. Let's get you in a Revival of heart-to-heart. I think I could I could do it off. I talked to Andrew rannells about and see if he's you know for it. I would watch you an Andrew in a heart-to-heart Revival. All right. Well run it up the flagpole happens. Thank you for being here Zach. It's good to see you again. It's always always a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. And we're back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is keep it we have to keep em, it's been it's been a week and I will reiterate how fortunate I am that Kanye is temporarily so far away from when we record I don't have to make him. I keep it. That is a plastic. Yeah. See, it's pranks. Yeah. He he peed on that Graeme on a on a Wednesday and for that I'm so grateful. I had to talk about it on I was on ET Canada the next day. Oh girl really how is that it was fine. I love the Canadians. My first brief keep it is too crooked media for scheduling Jon Favreau and Kendall Jenner's Instagram about voting cuz like she's reaching out to her millions of followers to like talk about voting Etc, but it is happening right now and I cannot troll John in the Instagram. Cuz it a Stern keep it in fact that it happened. It's the actual scheduling issues about okay. I feel like it was conveniently scheduled while we were recording to keep me out of the Instagram, Now, I'm not happy and also a mad at John because he just followed me back on Twitter last week. Oh, wow, the year Jon Favreau. It's been a year of meatballs. And by the way, welcome to the ride Jon Favreau. Wow. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's right to hit me with a car either, right? Oh that that to that too. Yeah. So anyway, you know with the last person, you know, Tommy off Mister number one keep it fed of the three was the last one to follow me is that so and it was true. It was truly like it was truly like five months in to keep it. Oh really? He followed me from the beginning like you're my favorite constantly. Is that weird? He loves me every day lates. We did it in the mood for Love Song Was it was that all up to your keep it? I don't want to I don't want to jump the gun know that was that was that was just that was just a pre keep it a very good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah the key when they keep it segments. Like we're just keeping everything, you know wage not Paul Rod this week because the the whites got mad. Oh, yeah, they did get mad as a total mess and I went back and listened to it because sometimes you kind of forget the scathing way. You're speaking off your doing your keep it and then you go back and listen and you're like I sound way harsher than I meant to or I didn't preface it with a I love Paul Rod, but so, you know, there is definitely a formula to keep it if you want to ward off the wild people in your life in your DMs and I did not do that with Paul Rudd and I'd like to apologize. It's you know, it's well, I'm glad you said that but but also but also, you know, it's I just always find it funny like home and you drag everything under the side and then like sometimes you'll hit the one person where they're like, wow you you can make fun of this but don't make fun of Paul Rod because I watch clueless every night before bed wage. You know, it's just the one thing that that Taps into people's brains were the comedy has to stop the the comedy train doesn't come here anymore, right? Oh, very good. That's a deep Tennessee Williams reference, right? Yeah. I was going to say also one time I did last cultural resources. They have a thing called. I don't think so, honey where people just go up and do one minute rants, like 50 comedians go up in a row and you can do so, they're keeping cars. Don't worry about it. Yeah, but they do this thing where you can pick a topic from a bowl and randomly come up with a monologue, but whatever they give you and that's like the challenge of it to like fake finger at something. I just want to say I did that once and had to talk about Chelsea Clinton. You would think I was actually very upset at Chelsea Clinton. It's obvious like what imagine like spending like a moment's writing a poem read about Chelsea Clinton. But anyway, so I'm on your side there. I had to direct Salma Hayek that same I don't think so honey, cuz we were on that same live show. All right, and I just went I went data s but I remember Jose Saying that she would never she would never be the movie Selma by Ava Duvernay name, Let's call the whole thing off. Yes, ma'am. I'll start with I'll start my keep it because it's going to be brief because it's not upsetting anything. I think everybody sort of agrees about this one my keep it is to the movie Antebellum, which for some reason I watched over the weekend off and I say for some reason because I'm not horror oriented in any way really so it's weird that I would watch it. So soon after it came out, but first of all, I just want to say there's an awesome essay about specifically black people are sick of these kinds of movies Angelica J Bastian wrote about it over at vulture. If you're not reading her about movies, I mean you can cancel and so keep it right now and like just read her thoughts. Yeah, but it's this movie that stars Janelle Monae and it begins with 40 minutes of what I will call just straight slave related torture. It's just it's it's unending you're wondering what the point is dead. And then when you find out what the point is because there's a contemporary Mobius strip twist halfway through this movie. You are subject to the most boring sequence of events and Janelle Monae being like a motivational speaker activist person who speaks only in the most boring trite phrases about racial Justice. It makes no sense. And you're one at the end eventually. She's she's reverted to what seems like Antebellum times and she has to escape and there's some suspense to that but it takes a long fucking time to get to that and thought the characterizations in this movie. I root for Jena Malone as a species. I want her to do. Well she goes very broad here and while it's fun, it's one of those like, you're so broad you're in your own Movie package and I am curious what that movie was because this one is way inappropriate for it. Anyway, nobody needs to see this movie and I have to say a full keep it and also Janelle Monae what happened? What happened? And you know, I am I am happy that the right person sought Antebellum because I was not I was not about to it went over my radar. I thought I saw Angelica's review for one and then to I was just awful I this isn't for me ya know yet again. I've imagined me watching Antebellum be like well, that was great. Imagine. My friends about life was for no one, right? Okay. So my keypad this week goes to kind of the same thing larger topic about computers algorithms and racist coding that is coming to the light in the past few weeks. I've had this recurring problem on Twitter where when I upload a photo and the app is left to decide which part of the photo is put in the Tweet preview it rarely highlights May face it sometimes it'll highlight the wrong part of my face or the person on my shirt, but honestly, that's what I get for wearing Bjork. I'm a shirt I would have chosen her to now now like there's this recent song Thread that's confirmed all my suspicions that something Beyond me is going on a guy named Colin Midland posted a tweet thread showing how one of his fellow faculty members a black man. Am having trouble using the virtual background feature on Zoom because it would often cut his face out of the frame or it wouldn't match up with a virtual background. He then went to tweet screenshots of the photos. And even when the faculty members face was present Twitter opted to feature Colin Midlands photos. Who is you guessed it a white man. And before you go Lego. Well, what about the lighting or what about know it was a clearly it was a clear favor for the white man's face. It reminds me that code and the way code is written is just a manifestation of the coders mind and if that coder has racial biases, then the code will have or biases and judging that all the code is written down there in Silicon Valley. Okay, there's a high chance is a very very high chance that not so Savory programming is being written in English. New forms of intelligence and these algorithms don't just struggle with identifying Black Faces as readily as white ones. But the more we rely on facial recognition as a type of technology in the way. The Advent of it goes beyond social media. We see them same programs being used and being partial toward incriminating Black Faces in the justice system and less than a month ago. We saw one of odd First cases of someone being convicted and taken to jail using facial-recognition and then it came out to be that he was not the perpetrator of the crime and it was of course a black man in Detroit. So this is just something to be wary of as facial recognition is is and again, I'd like to apologize for going on Patriot Act and my keep it but it's a lot of things are going on and off I was calling me but that's my keep my keep it is two races software and racist programming and honestly Twitter did just acknowledge that there's an issue and then they're going to log The to it immediately oh interest. So so that means that will not look at it. They were lying and you shut up ya still waiting on them to look into those Nazis off on the bifocals that reminds me of sort of what I was talking about last week when like my keep it was to the social dilemma, right? You know would had the white people, you know, like it would work like Twitter or Facebook Pintrest Etc talking about like they had no idea that like social media could be used for nefarious purposes. Right and it's like, well, you have to think about the fact that you as white men largely right man who were also in this documentary, you know, like creating this code and creating these companies like you have biases that other people can sort of take advantage of you know, like that's why you should have like not just white men on your team, you know, there's other people will see these happening. Also how far behind in mind that that was the first time I've ever heard Sila cracker Valley. Am I just Way by I think I'm coining to be dead. To be totally honest unless I'm wrong. I'm glad to be here for it. I've just I'm outside of myself for maybe that being my first so I crack a valley is it took a while? I was like can I say cracker on the podcast but it also sounds like the silly cracker which also works out too. I don't know. I mean, you might get Dean's from people who really love Ritz crackers this way. Everybody knows that we then have we don't have to go there but on a Triscuit bitch, I don't know who was a Triscuit busy on either an old broom. Yeah off my keep it this week is to Ellen DeGeneres DeGeneres Queen herself who did an apology on her show this last week for everything that we've talked about on the show recently, you know, the allegations of misconduct on her show and you know the project Sisters that had to be fired for you know, preying on people who worked on the show, you know, sexually harassing people and also just the General Air of publicity that seems to exist at The Ellen Show. I don't know if y'all saw this apology, but it was wack. I saw her say something so her say something off. I knew that the apology was going to be like this because if you recall every time Ellen has had to apologize for something before it is always found it. So disingenuous bike rack, but when she was first dragged about hanging out with George Bush the war criminal she started her policy by being like listen, I'm friends with a lot of people across aisle and like who I guess it was an uproar about like me being at a game this weekend, you know, like every time like something happens with Ellen and she did it with this apology to where she's like, how is everything Summer, you know mine was pretty great, huh, super terrific like she always starts out the apology by like acknowledging what happened in a way that it seems like can believe this happened. You know? Yeah, and also don't start it with a joke. I don't know. It's like the situation is serious enough that it demanded greater specificity. Like as I was sitting there watching it. My problem was I mean, I've not discussed it on this podcast a number of times or I've discussed with my friends and number of times I was struggling to remember what had occurred, you know, like yeah, like as she was sitting there like what are you apologetic before like there are layers of things going on here. And and by the way again, she did point this out. There's a world of difference between Ellen is not as nice as she seems on the show which by the way who cares? Yeah, and and secondly em, there's a culture of horror, I guess or of contemptible Behavior occurring on the show and I just wish she had been specific about that and how those kinds of things occur because that page Affected people it has nothing to do with just Oh Ellen, you looked at me wrong one time, you know? Yeah, you don't get to respond to accusations of sexism and racism and workplace hostility with I'm sorry. Ami still learning like you don't well also opening up her apology with like, you know, if anybody's thinking of changing their title or giving yourself a nickname don't go with the kind lady. It's like you've literally just undercut everything that you're about to say by how you open your apology and it's just so it's so rude and dismissive to be honest. You know, it reminds me of the George Bush thing reminds me of how she was so rude and dismissive of people who had a stood criticisms of Kevin Hart, you know for his homophobia and thought she was conflating them with people just sort of like being mean to him online. Right? And I think unfortunately this is a thing that will always be a problem with wage Tackle egg situation is when it comes to Alan right because she has Brandon herself as this sort of like nice person, you know, like be kind to everyone else, you know, and in her mind, you know, like if she always could inflate criticisms of herself or people in her orbit with people, you know are just sort of like being mean right and there's a difference. Yes between like home. You can be a bitch Ellen to be honest, you know, like you could be I don't care if you're a bitch behind the scenes, you know, like when people were talking about how like, oh, the security guard ones was like like she wasn't making eye contact with me, you know, or she was like sort of dismissive and rude. I'm like she can do that. Yeah, you know as long as she's treating people like with respect at work. She just has to be your friend, you know, and she really doesn't have to be friends with people like who like come up to her on the street, you know, whatever someone's like, oh the celebrity was mean to me like I went up and asked them for like a photo and it's like they can be mean to you get out of them. Yeah, you know but there is a marked difference here and and she doesn't really get that and I also found it. So exploitive for her to talk about how long she first started saying like be kind to people because it came in the wake of Tyler Clemente's suicide, you know, there's a gay teen who took his life because of both king and you fostering a workplace that is creating drama for people of color and for other queer people and allowing Predators home to just sort of like run rampant at your workplace has nothing to do with this fucking kid who took his life. Okay, like and you trying to be like I am a nice person and I'm trying to Foss kindness because I'm really torn up about this kid who took his own life. It's like it's like that has nothing to do with what was going on in your workplace and the fact that you would try to explain Void that and sort of like give yourself like sympathy is it I found it offensive. Yeah. It's I mean Ellen had didn't have the advantage because I don't think any of us wanted to hear an apology from her. We wanted her back out to stop being on the air. So just from that at the beginning she was doomed and if that's what made it one of the least satisfactory apologies that I think I've heard in a long long time. Unfortunately, I've heard way too many off hand accounts of my friends who worked at The Ellen Show talk about their own personal issues at the show for her to ever have been able to redeem herself. So, I'm sorry Ellen, there's just no walking this back. Yeah, you know and that's unfortunate too that we just sort of like ascribe, you know, this like cult of personality. I guess two people, you know, like especially someone like, you know, like this this this quote unquote nice name is that she's been allowed to exploit, you know, and like you don't have to be nice. You don't have to be kind just don't let racism and like sexual harassment happened at your workplace girl 62 years. Old talking about I'm a work in progress, right? I mean, I've never seen a play like a play get good in the third act. Like if you don't often recommend witness for the prosecution Christie's Ellen Ellen Ellen. Well, that's our show off. Thank you to David Chang and Zachary Quinto for joining us this week. We will see you next week. Keep it as a production of crooked media Caroline rested is our producer. Our editor is Bill Lance and Kyle segment is our sound engineer. Our national team is not in a melatonin and my location. Thank you to Brian settle for production support every week.

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