18 Episode results for "Jimmie Rodgers"

Mama's Wranglers, Jackson Family Band & Cloggers

MinddogTV Your Mind's Best Friend

1:04:04 hr | 3 months ago

Mama's Wranglers, Jackson Family Band & Cloggers

"What happens in vegas also happens on this podcast and we'll talk about it on this episode of the mind. Tv podcasts And welcome my friend yet. Another episode of the my dog tv. Podcast i'm matt apple. Thanks for coming. It's great to have you here as always y'all ready for some yellow. What what did he say. i said. Yeah already for some yodeling. We're gonna have some really Classic western entertainment for y'all tonight And it's my pleasure to introduce this. New ax will not a new act but New to some of you and introduce act to people who may not be familiar with it and something. I think is Kind of a throwback to old old fashioned entertainment. So i look forward to finding out a little bit about it myself Before i introduce them in essay. Them's not just one person as we usually have. We have a group of four tonight before a introduced. I need to kind of briefly. Talk about my sponsors. We have a new sponsor will. I'd like to talk about tonight Card cash dot com. You know when the holidays come and you don't know what quite what to get somebody The easy thing to do is get him a gift card gift. Cards right and so A lot of people never ended up using those gift cards. And it's a shame it's a waste of money for on both parts and You know they sit up and they accumulate and so called. Cash dot com provides an answer to to common questions. What do i do with all these gift cards. I'm sitting around that. I got that i'll never use and How can i easily save money. While cod cash pays for unwanted unused gift cards and then sells those cards at a discount. So you can make money and save money. So basically the idea is you sell unwanted unused a gift cards and get some cash for it and if you happen to be in the market for something and Know exactly what you want. You can go there and buy cash gift cards for a discounted price and save a lot of money for whatever it is. You're trying to buy so it's card. Cash dot com and lincoln's in the description. Use our link and the promo code mine dog. And you're going to get a special discount offer further discount. I believe it's ten percent of the already low price on the gift. Cards at excel. So that's a great deal. Check them out. The lincoln into descript card cash dot com Tonight program is also brought to you by audio books now You know about the convenience of audiobooks. I don't have to go through this whole spiel everytime about how convenient it is to listen to books while you're driving while you're going around Doing a menial tasks during the day you can listen to a book about how convenient it is so and you know you can get audiobooks just about anywhere on the internet so why audio now dot com well. The answer is simple price point price point price one. What books now club pricing place. It's monday folks. Tulips are working at Audio books now. Club pricing plan is simply the best deal on audiobook. She'll find it. Offers savings and flexibility not found anywhere else with their save on everything. Discounts rollover exclusive. Offer his loyalty program credible selection and cancel anytime policy. It's simply cannot be be plus get a free premium audio book on select files. Plus they're gonna up the deal right now. If you click on the link tonight you'll start at thirty day. Free trial of the club pricing plan normally for ninety nine a month. It's absolutely free for thirty days to try. If you're not happy at any time during thirty day period you just cancel. Any won't be tried to penny link is in the description on sure. Do appreciate you patronizing uh sponsors. It's audiobooks now dot com before a Bring my guests. And i just today. I On on the afternoon program. I kind of mentioned it's very surreal right now for me to be doing a podcast featuring musicians and filmmakers and comedians and authors When it feels like at any moment The whole world could be burning down. I and it's a very strange time with finish very strange time since The lockdown stuff would cove it in. I i know my guest tonight in south of vegas where they probably don't have much of a lock down but here in the northeast in probably where you are tonight Wherever that might be it probably been an anxious time for the last year anyway before the events of the last week. So it's a really surreal time to be talking about entertainment and In in the arts and stuff like that and the. What's the point of the whole world going to out this week anyway. I'm hoping for the best but it's a really anxious in strange time for me. So i just put that out there. Because it's part of the mindset that i'm dealing with as a go through this very surreal week. We do have a bunch of great guests lined up for this week. A couple of comedians for the next couple of nights tomorrow. Night and wednesday night we have seeped loosening and Don smith great comedians out. But you know. Don smith is going to be here wednesday night. After the inauguration who knows what kind of atmosphere will be living in so keep me fingers crossed and hope for the best. But it's a very strange and anxious. Time and i hope we get through this week and then maybe things will be brighter next week and will be Feeling a little bit better about the world. I know you know it's been. It's been a tough year and a half or so. It seemed like it's been a tough year. this week. tonight's program as i mentioned that. Say y'all ready for some yelled with Mama's wranglings the jackson family band. And clog out of las vegas. Nevada will be the pinnacle of detainment. For any event. They are one of the most sought after acts and have performed forty nine states canada. End your they sing some all time western music clog and america's yodeling darling. Nineteen year old. Skyler will bring down the has ladies and gentlemen without further ado. Let's open our ears open on minds and help me. Welcome in mama's wranglings. Welcome folks out. Great heavier. that was that was beautiful in harmony. The hello we try whenever we can which is harman is just natural so i have to start off with a very simple. I'm i'm known for for being like ocd. And finding problems. And i found that i'm confused about. I went on your website. And i doubt tonight we have for you but on the website. There's a picture of five of you all the pictures the hi rez photos of five view. What's the deal is four or five. There's four of us now. Truth be told mama's wranglings at one point had seven of us. Because i have six children and all six children were part of the bad at one time or another so They've just move down on to other things and so now this is mama's wrangler the three kids and me of course mama as kenya so we all names so the oldest still with the band is tests and she is married and she plays the banjo. Ve fennel mandolin drums keyboard a little bit of everything driven next to linus grayton and he. He's our guitar player but he also plays fiddle keyboard drums and he's a logger. And then the baby in the family is schuyler who like you said is nineteen and. She can't wait to be twenty a to get older because she felt like. It's going to be more responsibility. You're absolutely right. I i said several times on this program. I've had Midlife crises starting. At twenty than add another one at thirty ahead. Another one at forty another one fifty to prepare. Yeah every every zero year seems to be crisis so the amount of instruments you play now. Are you all self taught is it. Is it in the blood what what's going on there. It's a little of everything. I would definitely say a lot of. It's in the blood because she's very musical and so and then she taught allison's for years so we kind of grew up with that musical training just as we were growing up. So i think a lot of it's just natural but no we have to. We have for practice really hard and am. I did hire teachers through the years and because teachers no more than moms and so. I hired plenty of teachers through the years. We still hire an occasional vocalist and here there and instruments that we need something or help on it We work with the choreography or choreographer That helps out with a lot of our stuff as well but we do a lot of our own choreography for the clogging and And then often they as siblings would see their their brother or their sister playing something else and they would think. I wanna learn how to play that too so they would just go pick up the instrument. And that's the south taught messed won't they impassive very very impressive. I play a lot of instruments myself None of them well. I played for recording. So if i can play a part on an instrument for recording get by with never call myself a saxophone player even though i recorded saxophone parts and stuff like that okay. So it's interesting to me now. Are you a tony you will. You are the the matriarch of the family. Were you in bands and stuff before you got married before you had children and stuff was always more yeah. I grew up playing the piano as well and then loved playing the piano but love being part of in the fifth grade. I started taking cello lessons. And i really loved the cello. I really loved playing with orchestras with a group of people. So from the time i was in fifth grade i was playing in groups and found how much i loved that the part of everybody playing different parts in that harmony that instruments can do and and all the different things that could be going on in a huge orchestra and so i wanted that for my children so as they were born and I started teaching them piano than i thought. I don't want them to get bored with just piano. So we branched out into fiddles and then fiddles became guitars and banjos and mandolins and then we started working with the gentleman who said you have all the qualities to be a band so we put together. Our own family band started doing a lot of that and then one day the kids came home from lessons and they said ma mom you got to hear this and i was. I sat down. I was prepared to hear this gray instrumentation her duck shen and they started seeing a three part harmony. Now mind you. They were like twelve ten a six so they were little and i had never taught them to sing so it was pretty amazing to me. Blew me away and so then we just added that to the show and then the dancing came along and so that was added and then when schuyler was six years old i had gone through the ranks with all the other kids said. Hey we need some yoga. Lean and all of them up. I'm not doing that though. Skyler was only six. She didn't know any better so schuyler would you. would you learned to yodel. And she says l. k. She didn't even know what it was. Would i be putting you on the spot. If i asked to give the audience just a short little sample of some yellow. Let's on the spot that she loves to be on the spot. She loved him. The star of the spider only boy onstage as the star of the show. Let's hear something all right. Hey oh god. That was amazing. Now can that be taught did. Did you like the for yodeling lessons. How do you. How do you pick that up. Actually jakko had. When i was like mom said wednesday sees all she did take me to a yodeling instructor but i only ever had one lesson of the rest was self taught. I would just listen to some other yodeler online or on a cd and then i would just replicate burial. My singer just said excellent. I'm doing that next gig now. Eight million. I want to hear that. Yeah no you don't wanna hear that who. Who would you listen to pick that stuff up. Because you know i think of when i hear that i kind of think of real all time. Country like jimmie rodgers and hank williams and stuff like that. Where who do you. Listen to your influences recently. I'm doing a song done by roy. Rogers and i actually really love his yodeling. But i've also taken I've also listened to like patsy kline as well as one of the big ones. I listened to for a while. Is taylor where i'm so. Yeah just a whole bunch of different old old-timey usually you're less Old country very very cool stuff. Tony where did you grow up you. Originally from the vegas area is that now. I was born a new. We moved all over the place. I've lived in wyoming and montana idaho So i don't. I don't really have a homestay until we moved here to las vegas area and haven't moved since so we love it here. We were tennis player so we love that we can play tennis year. Round in fact we had a matched we judas. I play with him yesterday today. We had a match and we were brain tank. Tops so gorgeous it was in the seventies to all right all right enough of that. We we don't need to hear about how nice it is in other places. The reason i asked where you were from originally because a lot of yodeling influenced thought of as like appalachia music. And i although every place you mentioned that you had grown up those are steeped in country. Music i would. I always associate yodeling with tennessee and in west. Virginia and places like that kentucky may be but Certainly certainly not out west. Because i think of western swing when i do you incorporate any of that western swing stuff because way you are now. That's that's the You know the the where that music comes from. Is that southwest corner there. So does anybody play. Pedal steel still guitar a little bit of sale. Say she's a professional yet but it's what she got for christmas this year. And but no. I guess it was more for your birthday september and so she she just again self taught she watched some videos watched another guy play it. And she's like i can do this so she just learnt how to de tighter. So yeah it's really fun. But i think i prefer to play the banjo. Still it's it's got to be one of the most difficult intimates. I ever tried to play and it because it requires a a real delicate and and gentle touch but you you know you really have to be. You have to really maintain the field with you because me. I'm just a real hard player to begin with. I like strom really hard. I play and for that instrument you you really have to finesse it a little bit. So it's always struggled with and but it is key to that western swing set now The clogging you're all over the place with with the all time he stuff the clogging. Where does that fit in. Were you were you. Did mom teach you all at or no. Actually the she took us to an instructor and the instructor sent her home. She was slow in the rest of us down to learn to so i went to the lessons with them and the teacher was like you need to go. Wow amazing i it's so with coal going on. I'm imagining that. You're not touring because it says you've been candidate in forty nine states. I'm wondering which is the one you you didn't play but if i the hawaii or alaska but I am imagining you. Not touring right now. You're not going anywhere you staying home in this one that what's it called. The fairlight is that what is called firelight. Martin is that the company business do so. Yeah we do. We opened it ourselves so we are the owners and we are actually family owned and operated as well and yeah we opened it in two thousand fifteen because in two thousand fourteen Three hundred fifty shows all out on the road so we were not home very much that year at all and we have horses and the kids have Other people dating and friends. And i have my husband. Yeah so it was difficult to be gone from home so much to that extreme and so we thought we've got to think of something else as the kids get older and i knew that they wanted to get married and so forth so we opened the dinner theater specifically and as we toward across the country we have taken every opportunity to go see other dinner western dinner shows and we just loved the atmosphere. We loved the music part of it. We loved you know the good old barbecue and so we opened. it doesn't fifteen and but just in end of two thousand nine eighteen as we when we finally were able to purchase are building and so we just love that we can do whatever we want now and but during twenty twenty when cova shut us down we started Doing live stream and broadcasting. So that we can still stay in touch with our with our people because we were torn at all and were very very fortunate to be on your show tonight so thank you so much for having us. Oh it's my pleasure. believe me i'm loving it But it seemed to me like that's a dream come true because you know as you mentioned like life on the road can be exhausting and take all the life out of you but to be able to. Most people can't do that because or stay home like you are now performing every weekend in your own place because You know you do that every weekend after a while. P people in the area seemed to know but vegas is the one place or the vegas areas to one place in the world where you always have an influx of tourism to kind of keep the audience fresh so it just seemed like the stars during your favorites set that up fauria and it does seem like a dream come through any musician whose lived a life in knows what it's like to be out on the road you can have the best of homelife entertaining and you can't get doesn't get any better than that right absolutely. Yeah so the joy about a working with family. That's a great thing to. I mean to be able to sing and make music with your family. Does it ever get Not so nice. The ever have like civil rights. Sibling rivalries or arguing emphasize the star. Show the star of the show stands in the centre. Stay metal and i stand in the center of the stage so clearly. There's no center but see. I'm closer to the center than she is a giant piano in front of me could get. This started little bit of rivalry sometimes every once in a while. Let me go referee shirt. I'll be right back so yeah that that's interesting. 'cause i know even like in most band says generally some but is there serious. You don't get into serious. Like i mean over the music over the arrangements over who should sing. Why and any of that stuff. The ever like the real serious arguments over that stuff there could be that possibility potentially However we have really tried to work together on. It's not always gonna go my way. It's not gonna go her way and so we can just see the value of what everybody adds to the table and take away from it. It's it makes it so. It's not all like how i would it anyway. As we appeal to audiences with a whole bunch of different personalities and different tastes themselves. Our audiences can be sitting old together in the same show and one will fall in love with him and come up to me after the show and say oh my gosh. He's like the star of the show and somebody else will come up to me and fall in love with her and you know it's time they say i'm so advert they're always going to be differences just like in any relationship Or any company. There's gonna be some friction But at the end of the day we always try to make sure that we're the best friends before we leave and it were workout so far twenty years. Now we've been performing together. Wow that's that's a real long time. Yeah we're twenty years in in my current band is well went on. But i'm old i started. I was forty one when i started. Forty laugh but a very interesting great and are you the only son or another son but he doesn't perform on with van. So i'm the only guy in the band which is nice having the napoli swirl do i have to. I have gone through on all of the low stuff. That's for sure like johnny cash. Sing all that's really cool. How low can you go ever. I've never measured on not real low. I am not nearly as low other guys out there. That can really go. I go low enough to hold it down in country pop to privately. There have been a few people that have come along and just turn. I believe the guy's name but you know. The low voice started to become in fashion again after it. Was you know guys forever. We're trying to sing the high notes in in The baritone singer went out of style as far as pop music pop country for a while. But i'm glad to see it back But the reason. I ask if you were the only son like with all that female energy sometimes connect get a little overwhelming for you are dealing. This learned really quickly. Whatever the girls say goes and makes a really nice the boss so he how it gets his way. Do you do any original music. You write music a little. We've done a few original songs We've had people that have got an idea and written songs for us. And so then they give us the rights and everything so we do some original music We mostly do cover tunes. Our audiences really loved that they can sing along with songs. They grew up with from the arm or back in the day. And so we find that we do a lot of We'll do request that. We know using requesting south. Well i've i've done many requests. Even if i don't know them And that's common. I mean for the last twenty years every week. I mean at least at least three or four songs of people requesting songs that we have no idea how to play. But we're gonna. we're gonna do it anyway. I guess you way through it and it comes out okay or it doesn't and it's a train wreck but it's how do you go about selecting the songs that you can sing now is just what what you can sing. Well what are it like Do you go by like you know. We'd take one from this era from this this year or a particular artist at what's the process of like we'll have a title for the show and then we try and do a story. We try and tell a story throughout the whole show so like the show or running right now in our theater is called the good the bad and the wrangler 's and so we have a little bit of good songs some bad songs and then some wrangler songs like songs. We grew up with and stuff so we. That's pretty cool. Now do people get up and when you doing the dancing stuff that people get up and dance along with you is. Is it like people like sit there quite a. It's quite has banned dancing in the state of nevada. Well you know it's supposed to be that here but that hasn't worked out that way. I've been playing gigs. Every weekend people dance they get up and dance. And that's supposed to be dancing. What they do and you know. It's not that heavily. Our thought las vegas was would be more open i. I was under the impression that you were a lot more open than the rest of the country right now. Are you not know a lot of entertainment. There's a lot that still hot open back up again. they're starting. things are like the smaller theaters. It's just with all the covid restrictions and only at twenty five percent occupancy overhead for some of those large stadiums are theaters. Can't do it. yeah. I can appreciate that. Wow i did not know that i. I think a lot of other people are in the same boat. Me is thinking that For whatever we heard on the news reports that las vegas was probably be most open city. But you're not into the city proper all you right. We're in henderson. Witches just southeast of vegas you know. The casinos are opened but again limited things the casinos and even some of the casinos like station casinos. All the casinos are not even because they just can't. There's not enough tourists. Come and take low all the casinos and so while that's gotta be so weird especially for people who live out. There are so used to seeing so many strangers. Come there You know all all the time must feel like a ghost town. Yeah wow that's that's really untidy see that and you know all can do was hoped stuff gets better. Wanna play your demo video. That's all right for folks. Okay so anything. We need to set this up where i can just hit play. That's okay you saw that. I'm be a loan know mommy's rags i love. Love it man. I love it. What strikes me now wh- in watching that demo a lot of costume changes in the show. We we've gone through a lot of costumes over the years. That's for sure one show now. Okay and the hats. They all set. Since i've taken so much abuse from hats weren't music videos. That weren't that's something people watch him and The guys just looked for that. Like i don't see no brand name on hat And again wildfire. I'm i'm in new york so That that kind of music is not exactly Popular up here. It's not like no country stations. Where and you mentioned like dennis country musical dinner theater. I don't think there's any in anywhere my area that i know about it. And you know in the northeast So i have to come back to that. What's the one st you haven't performed in his away or or alaska. Why i would think you you do well there. I would think because they are very much in entertainment based thing. But you know everybody's doing the luau stuff and something different. You guys would be like you'd usually within your own element the biggest goldfish in in a I guess Parana bowl or something decade for analogies but no. I would think you would do extremely well. They are no. Yeah you know. I think i hear what you're saying. What i had intended Was for us to get there in twenty twenty but then of course you know So but i was really trying to focus on gigs for like elementary schools where we introduce them to western atmosphere because yeah i think that they get an endangered with the house and that kind of culture culture and i thought it would be great to be exposed to the western and then i found out that there are a lot of Is there a lot. Of course writing which i would have not again. I have never been there. So i wouldn't have known that but But i think that the locals would appreciate it. Yeah the tourists now. 'cause they're going to see hawaiian stuff but but the tourists are that the locals i think would really appreciate. It would be like something different for them. So we're hoping maybe since it didn't happen a twenty twenty it will happen for twenty twenty one and we're hoping everything comes back to normal twenty one that i i hope i hope it does but i again i just think he would be outstanding and and really stand out among a million luo axon in you know hula hula girls and then just to see an all timey country western Entertainment would be something really unusual and unique. And that's what that's what really kind of gives it the value point So where is 'cause you mentioned musical dynasty. Now i'm wondering where the commonplace outside of vegas that you would think. Is it like branson missouri type or or tennessee. A natural will win matt. Yeah oh are different. Different places have to that. You know because you said you played around the country. I'm wondering where'd dinners musical. Dinner theater that feature country western music. Where we we. We find that the usa today so we we've just found him dotting across the united states so midwest there's But again they're not commenting so unusual and so you know you can just do google searches in. You can find them throughout the throughout the united states yet. Not very many up in your area for sure. Yeah i would think it would go over well here though i if it happened to you. It's just people. Don't think about that stuff up here. But i would think if if it were happening because i know we play country music and line. Dancing is still you cheer whenever we play anything that people can line that so even if it's not a typical wind dance song people will start line that Not hinting yeah So you have blind dancing do. Do you have that kind of thing. Where ever do those kind of things with its line dancing classes and stuff where when you guys perform or not now not when we're performing but we we have tried again to offer dancing or different things so to get people out and we'll have a dance year caught a hoedown or something. Have some some dance. Instructors not just line dance at maybe two staff or something else that going very dance we had square nassar's once was a lot of fun at we learned that swear. Dancing is really difficult. Well i i've been calling you. Mama's wrangler is. We're not saying the jackson family band because I think you probably know that. There's another jackson family band. That's been around since i was a kid and It probably not the same style of music. Good success doing occasional jackson song really. That would be interesting. Do you do with a country flavour or and she really got. The michael jackson moves down on a fun as she did. A little medley of michael jackson songs in start off with i think. Abc like women to men in the mir. Wow i'd like to hear a beat it done on a fiddle western style. I'm very cool So what what about the future plans now. I know it's difficult to even make plans. But i guess the plan is just a stick home and do the The stuff at your at your benefited. Right right keep building the business year at a keep building not only just the dinner show but are virtual stuff as well because we found that there's so many people out there that are just looking for a ray of sunshine on whatever a weekly basis or something so we can provide that for people we can give music which i think is a powerful thing for people and Put smiles on people's faces. That's always been if you ask any one of them even apart from me you know by themselves and what is it that you love about performing. They will say we love to see smiles on people's faces so if we can bring some happiness and joy to people and make their day better and give something to look forward to on a weekly basis than is is done very cool. Very cool it. It's strikes me you know the working people find the the the live events anyway and do you have any plan coming up. Yeah so every. Tuesday we do a live show. That's free. it's just on our website. Firelight barn dot com or they can also find us on facebook only livestream at bear too. And that's More we interact with Chat and talk to the people that get on and everything and then we always have to songs that we play that the dual for the evening to cnn. The audience the people that are watching get to pick which of the songs is their favorite on and then every weekend We have our shows By the Aren't now's the good the ban the rattlers and those you can watch on our website you have to create an account and sign in and purchase on to watch those shows and those are on a weekly basis as well and anytime. We're doing a show on on weekends. Okay let me make sure. I got this right. So while firelight barn dot com is where they're gonna find the live events right and that's tuesday night. 'cause i two websites here and then there's mama mama wrangler dot com and that's where they sign up for for the The other shows are note. They're they're both on firelight barn monitoring just is more information and stuff about the group to watch any of the live stuff than its firelight. Barn dot com. That you go to very cool. So i gotta ask just a technical stuff and this boy the audience but i i have because i'm curious what when you do in the shows are doing like three camera thing like a making switches or anything or is it. You said one camera in front of the stage and has it work. More for the for the the tucson showdown than There's generally one main camera and then depending on what we're doing. There's normally secondary cameras For the For the live shows on the weekends then yet there's There's to that adjusted to be able to get the different angles of what's going on and stuff for the show interesting Do you get a lot of satisfaction out of doing those Live streaming shows or. Is it a little bit weird for you to tell me what the experience is like for you as you put a performer. compared to like a regular live show or did you get the same feeling from it. Well it was really interesting. The first time we didn't online show without an audience. Because your our were used to feeding off the energy of the crowd. So we're like smiling at separate camera There's a little awkward at first but it was just fun to see people commenting while were performing That's what are two songs showdown. Lebron said is really focused around is the interaction whereas now we are having live audiences we stream on the weekends so he can still feed off the energy of a crowd as well as you know have it live streaming. So yeah. so it's it's not. It's not very difficult and you can definitely feed off the energy coming from people's comments coming an Like on tucson showdown. So it's really a lot of fun your audiences are they more your mom's age or your age What do you mean. My mom's age her twenty nine years of age plus years. She thinks i'm really old by the way your ship. The audiences are mom's age molly seniors. Really it's so cute. Kids aren't into the country western music these days. So we've had we've had a lot of young kids come and they always enjoy. They always enjoy. The shows always have a good time on big show with fight their grandparents or something so that that's really well. Generally our audiences are yeah. I would think you know. They're not younger. People are not exp- exposed to it as much but once they are i would think they would enjoy it a lot. You know i play my band is what i i would really call it an all these banned. Because i'm all but it's a music. I grew up with and but when they're young people. We play from two to ninety two really. That's our audience and when there are kids in the audience they've really enjoy Some of the music. I can't it. It still boggles my mind. Have some of that stuff works. Because i would have never been to the music. My parents like much less my grandparents but we see a lot of that these days. So that's why. I asked him just curious. What what the Audiences like now with the livestreaming. Think something i found interesting. I had a steven page on the show. Who was a saxophone player for the band. Pink floyd band pink floyd. Yeah and he's been developing this technology with the streaming stuff. Which i think is is okay. It makes it a lot more enjoyable. And it's it provide what you mentioned in that you can get the audience feedback live. It's basically a wall of video where the audit you see. The audience members in their homes And sitting on couches or sitting and they you hear the applause at the end of the show and all that stuff. So it's you doing a livestream. But their accent is actually like five hundred television though whatever or video arms full of people at your actually playing for. It's gotta be expensive to do that way. But it it seems to me would be the closest thing to doing real show without you know and get that energy feed audience feedback which let's face it. That's what you that's what fuels you. It's it's the applause off a one song feed leads into the next song. And that's what keeps the show really feeling high energy and and really resonating with people right. Yeah yeah so Tony talked to me about a little bit before. 'cause we i know keeping you along but i'm just interested in in Because you're a business person. Now you got into this because you love the music you love your family and all this stuff and then it became a business Does does that change the dynamic it all for you. Does it become less enjoyable now. You're doing things that you know you didn't get into it and you want. Want become a bookkeeper in a a venue manager. And all this stuff or maybe did. I'm just guessing but does it. Change the dynamic of of why you got into and the pleasure aspect of our absolutely has changed the dynamics through the years Of course you know when they were i. Just what l kids musicians and We were just doing local things and then it changed a little bit more. When i took them out on the road and so then i was adding not just the music part of it but adding we have. I have to have a cowboy hat for each one of them speaking of cowboy hats and they weren't step since because we left one in every single state we've performed band and so you know thinking about those and then the logistics of finding hotels for the next stop or you know so it just became a bigger mantle for me to to bear as you will and then yeah adding the dinner theater on top of it. It has just added another hat that i need to put on but it is now as we're growing the business time to hire people to do some of those things now so higher bookkeeper hire people to do the less enjoyable jobs for us so that we can just focus on the entertainment part of what we love. That's what we thrive on. And so that's where. I see it to go for the future. The reason i ask that is pretty much. I know 'cause. I have big part of my audiences creative and i know a lot people hearing your story at. They're jealous envious. Whatever you wanna call it of the situation you find yourself in now and a kind of wanted to point out that it doesn't come out without some sacrifices along the way and it's not all like a bed of roses there are there are. There's a lot to get to where you are right now and the perfect situation that most people think you have a and we'll trade places with really are envious of in that situation you've created for yourself It wasn't you know it wasn't easy. I'm sure and it wasn't a better roads as it took a lot of hard work and a lotta dedication right. There's a lot of sleepless nights on my part on the last one to go to bed. I'm the first one up in the morning because there's always stuff that needs to be done whether that's Responding to emails returning phone calls and giving the costumes designed or you know so. Yeah it's it's a lot of a lot of hard work I hate to give you one more thing to do. Have you thought about a memoir. 'cause it's a really great story. I think it would be. It would be a great not maybe not a new york times seller but it would be a very good in interest story and i think. Be a very successful book in there. I have been asked by countless people in so i've tried to keep journals and i. I have photo albums of all of them and pictures of everything And we have a little short autobiography as well as many recorded cds that we've done through the years we have a couple of dvd's that we recorded through the years so it is a start Our little simple autobiography. That i wrote doesn't go into a lot of detail but eventually yeah i would. I would love to be able to do that. And and i do think that people would be very interested. I mean i can't tell you even half of the interesting stories that we have to the nearest that would make very good chapters in our book. Could imagine now with the traveling around. Did you do that by a motor home. bus jet. Had you know when you when you watch travelling around We chapel din- big eleven passenger van and we pull the big trailer behind so it was a lot of hours on the road We didn't fly the only place that we flew when we performed in europe and gave out. I wouldn't fly again. So that's why great are we says. We'll perform in hawaii when they build that bridge to hawaii. The airlines are just it. It's just hard when you're transporting a lot of instruments and then you have the sound equipment on top of that. So i apply. It just wouldn't work and so we would just drive everywhere. You can take a cruise ship to hawaii just putting that out there. Thank you have the context for us. I might you know with all the people who've been guests on the show i would. I wouldn't doubt that there's a connection in there somewhere. I actually one of my guests was was on a cruise ship. He was performing on cruise ship. When covid happened he was in. I think thailand is something and they locked down the princess and he's pretty famous. What they were. It was all over the news because he escaped. He wasn't they will lock down on the boat and nobody was supposed to leave the boat but he went overboard and swam to shore and get back to the us somehow and it was a big story because he violated their international. Wasn't supposed to do that. he's he he was a cruise ship worker and still is into and we'll be back doing it. Suppose when covert over. So that's a connection. I'll ask him about it though. If the if there's a A cruise line that features music that will take them one way to hawaii and four and let them stay for a couple of weeks in performance. Sounds like a great deal if if he can pull it off. being I don't wanna call myth. The idea around family and sibling harb harmony. Now it seems so easy. Seem so perfect with sibling harmony. When i hear it Is it something you have to practice is just because living together and being in a family. Your ears are more in tuned to that person. What's what's his secret. do you have to work at harmony. Come naturally we do have to work at harmony. But i think it does come a little bit easier because we are siblings and on top of that when we do work on it then it it blends really well since all of our of vows and everything. I kind of same rise Stand the test is a lot of our army parts. It's pretty easy for her. And i and even graydon to just here in linked to a third above or below but if we want something like super tight and More impressive than tests usually messes around on the piano. Find screen and nine specific parts the that we memorize to go so so on those road trips when you in the Eleven passenger a ban. were there are a lot of spontaneous harmonization going along while you're driving along some of our favorite song during no risk follow lick well you know the biggest thing when we when we would drive for twelve hours in the band is yodeling. Gets old really really fast high. When he in less he tries to do it. It gets really. You don't wanna hear him. I was just gonna ask him if he wanted to try it. You just ruined it. I telling you a fantastic yodeler. Head gruden had to pay for it so one of these one of these shows will put some yodeling in me doing the yelling at. It's just blow people away. Yes gonna make them want to leave i. There is a paper paper review model in here that we could actually make that work if we had to do it. I don't know how popular would be. Are there honey back so in closing. I know i have mama's wranglings dot com up there and For because most of the people are on the audio side. They want to spell that and the other one is firelight. Barn dot com. All one word now Is people want to go to both of them. Why why to websites do they need to websites. Or i'm a little confused at this point. So mama's wrangler create unexplained more about just the group and so that was our original website and that was the only thing that we had and so people wanted to know what we do or how to contact us. they would go to mama's wrangler. We are going to add some additional information on there so that people can an and you can't go to mama's wrangler an firelight barn from there but we will add. Continue to add some more things mama's ramblers where people can Tune into our two songs showdown our virtual shows or or things like that but firelight barn website was created when we opened the dinner theater so the dinner theater portion of what we do is firelight. Arn our dinner theater okay. Both of the links will be in the description. Now i i'm looking forward to when covid breaks be going out to las vegas anyway. I would love to meet you guys and actually doing in person interview maybe tape somebody yourself for for future bride cancer. I hope that would be okay with the i. I i find what you do. You know. very unique in in Interesting in that. Not many people. Are you know thinking outside the box when it comes to entertainment like In today's world or thinking doing unique things like this. And i think you know you have something here that most people should find interesting and and really In in a lot of ways it's all timing and it's it's very feel good very family oriented Good times and clean clean entertainment which you don't find a whole lot of anymore i into the i saw. I appreciate what you're doing. And i want you to know that they take you guys for coming any final thoughts before we say goodnight night. Think one more time with the yodeling. Maybe we go green damian. A an idea. You're gonna pay me now. I wanted the house second though we can do pay pal directly to you. Let's see i'll just do. Ooh that was one of oil. What happened. I yeah yodel. The picture right at impress. I'm pretty impressed to say. I am very with all of you and mama. You did a really great job with the with this plunged. Congratulations you. You might your person. Add heck when you get here. We'll put you on the stage with us so be prepared to play that saxophone coming. You have to pay ha. I thank you guys for being part of the show. And i wish you great success. Hopefully we'll meet somewhere down the road ahead. thank you. This episode is brought to you by put me in the story put me in. The story creates personalized books for kids by taking bestselling children's picture books and well up characters and allowing you to create personalized books. That make your child the star of the story alongside their favorite characters. Save twenty five percent storewide when you click the link on mine dog. Tv dot com and use the code. Save twenty five. Where else sponsored by the lovely lovely asia online stop for modern irresistible and affordable women's clothing. Never before has dressing yourself been so easy lovelies carefully. Curated selection of apparel accessories outerwear always on in always available at the web. Best prices lovely is dedicated to delivering high quality clothing to women. That will make them look and feel their best. They believe every woman has the right to dress well and shouldn't have to spend a lot to love how she looks. They make it easy to wear outfits you love every day giving you the confidence to take on the world. Lovely dot com. Some fashion trends are now forty percent off dotting at just five ninety nine get an extra eighteen percent off when you click the link on mine dog. Tv dot com and use the code j. f. t. eighteen. We're also sponsored by vapor. Dna founded in two thousand thirteen. They dna is the premier online vape store offering an industry leading selection of electronic cigarettes e e liquids an accessory. They're friendly and knowledgeable. Customer service team is always ready to provide the best customer service experience to ensure. You find what you're looking for. They guarantee their products to be one hundred percent genuine and at the lowest possible price. They're so confident. In their selection and customer service. They offer their customers. Eight forty five day refund. Call save twenty percent when you click the link on mine dog. Pva dot com and use the code orion q. Mama's wrangles folks really really cool stuff there. I hope you enjoyed that. And i hope you'll go to both the websites that both in the description you can click on them and Check out this stuff. If you're in the vegas area definitely Check out the firelight. Bon and Tuesdays in weekends. I believe now is a scheduled schedules on the website. Check that out and You know support them. Support this kind of cool. New cool. Timey renew entertainment. Hope you enjoyed this program how you got a lot of hope you come back and subscribe to your friends about tell them to come back and grab and go to my dog. Tv dot com. And find out when we're gonna have other great guests on an sign-up morello's and all questions and comments from me always info at mind dog. Tv dot com info at mind. Dog tv dot com. Now i meant we have quite a week lined up here Tomorrow rocco manila. Who is a former ceo of ups in a lot of big companies. Who's going to be talking on the business edition at one pm tomorrow about team building and then tomorrow night at eight pm. We have the great comedian. Steve blue will be with me and then a wednesday We don't have a daytime show. Because that would coincide directly with the presidential inauguration. And i'm not miss a net folks and then at apm don smith From dislike bats life broadcast with don smith. And will he's a comedian owner about comedy club out in ohio will get to talk to him and it's just a great week from there on. We have some other great guests. That i'll be telling you about as the week goes on but looks like an exciting week. I hope you join me for the rest of the week. greg became tonight. Extra coming. have a great night and you tomorrow bye for now. We don't f ball a Nedal man a guy who own aw.

vegas schuyler Don smith las vegas matt apple Skyler linus grayton jakko patsy kline jackson lincoln mama fauria america hawaii tennis jimmie rodgers dennis country musical dinner
Let It Roll: What Have We Learned From Ed Ward's History of Rock & Roll?

Rock N Roll Archaeology

1:10:52 hr | 1 year ago

Let It Roll: What Have We Learned From Ed Ward's History of Rock & Roll?

"Welcome to let it. Roll the PODCAST. About how why popular music happens hosted by Nate Wilcox? Follow the letter podcast on twitter at let it roll cast and check out our website at let it roll. Podcast DOT com. Let it roll. Is a Pantheon podcast. And you can listen to all the other great champion podcasts at. Www DOT PANTHEON PODCASTS DOT com today? Nate kicks off our eighth season with special guest scholar and musician jury Campbell to review the key lessons. We learned from mates discussions with Edward about his first volume of rock and roll. History wards approach of following the audience and looking at the broader cultural. History of the music has informed every podcast in this series and made in Yuri Review. The key elements of words approach pop in those ear buds and enjoy strong role. I'm your host Nate Wilcox a special episode kind of Meta episode of let it roll it you will. I'm joined by my friend a Campbell. Phd In American history and musician and longtime very knowledgeable music fan and I have forced him to re listen to all of my episode interviews with Ed Ward and we both read Edwards History of rock and roll volume one. And so this is kind of a recap and an attempt to digest what we learned from my twelve hours of conversations with Edward or shit. It's more like sixteen hours of conversations with Edward about this book. So welcome Yuri a my pleasure and so what did we learn from this endless sixteen hours of podcasting? Well you know. There's a lot of A lot of information In in the book and then that information in the book is blown up in these conversations that you had with Ed In know the book is kind of A. It's a time line right. It kind of goes in chronological order. Yeah it spills out you know these characters and their artistic output and the businesses that they started to forward you know the the Mas Ation of this artistic output etcetera and so there's a lot of specific information that you can learn from these books about the people who created you know these various musical genres leading up to and including rock and roll. But I you know you mentioned that I have a PhD. I'm kind of you know academically oriented person and I tend to look at these kinds of things through a sort of a framework or structure like try to like get high above it so I can kind of look down on what's going on and then filter my my view of it or filter my reading ever three successively might closer levels all the way down to the to the granular. And so when I think about I learned from this I think of it in terms of you know starting with the fact that you know people are social and that the cultural output that people create happens you know under the umbrella of sort of overall social structure that also includes politics and includes economics Each of those human endeavors. Let's say has grown qualities politics. There's about managing power. Those types of things You have culture which is kind of how we do things how we produce items for each other. The economic is how we managed the value of work for each other and those kind of things. And so when I? I think it's worthwhile just making three mention of that. To kind of put rock and roll and these business endeavors and the technological advances etcetera in that sort of a framework and note that it's kind of tucked away over here in this in in the cultural production section of Human Endeavor in cultural production. You know section the history of of America but it does have ended up having some economic connections. Obviously you have some political stuff that ended up being thrown in there with the Paola thing. Class was a big element of this that the as part of preparing for this I went back and listen to all the episodes with ad which was probably much more painful for me to hear my voice that much then I hope it was for anybody else but the Ala backlash is something that I think is becoming a theme of the of the series the Paola scandal. And you know if you look at the actuarial tables of the first wave of rock and rollers. Their dismal lot of the deaths were accidental. Obviously but you know this jail sentences. There's religious conversions being elvis being pressed into the army. And when you look at other episodes we've done about people like the weavers and and you know look moby grape for example. This element of the authorities cracking down on new music is is a recurring theme so Sorry to interrupt. I wanted to bring that up. Sure sure and and you know when when you start to consider rock and roll within the framework of these these social and cultural and political lines and economic you know activities. It helps us to be able to start to identify you know Themes and patterns. You can use to think about other you know forms of cultural lot years of of American experience CETERA history. It's like change over time. You know so you need to kind of a framework to look at changing times. Yeah and and get an opportunity to talk to add at length about this was such an honor because the dude has lived it from the early fifties as a child all the way through you know as a rock critic and writer and historian from the seventies on a fan in the sixties as much firsthand knowledge plus all his research decades on the air with NPR. And so it's the kind of thing where you're reading a book any generalized history. Like this is going to have mistakes. I I think in the original Disney called A. C. A. P. Carter. Ac Carter and you know. I saw some country. Music Francis flip out about but like that's not the fucking point you know with this thing is that he's woven this incredibly complicated history into a pretty concise volume and manage to stay on point and be readable. You know I sort of had this fantasy going in that I would challenge him on these things. I I kind of learned the hard way you now. If you challenge that be prepared to get slapped down a united sound like the basic like. I think the goal was to sort of answer. The question. How did rock and roll happen. Which I didn't even really comprehend was a answerable question when I started this. I was just like Oh history rockin all talk to Edward. This'll be fine and I'd been into increasingly into early R. and B. in particular I I've been pretty literate on country I've been pretty literate on rock and roll history but that early rb stuff. I really had gotten into as a byproduct of like Mark Lawrenson Beatles Massive Beatles biography and realizing the key thing for me going into this was realizing that the Beatles had one version of rock and roll history that's much more aligned with what Elvis understood to be rock and roll history as far as we know were already Charles and in the rolling stones at everybody after the rolling stones has a different view of rock and history. And so you know like I think when people right Rachael history now. They tend to start with the blues. And then jump to Elvis and you know maybe add in some country but that's really not a very linear progression. Is that a fair statement. Yeah I mean you know. I think the book makes it clear that that is the reach of rock and roll. Go back into a number of different musical genres and suggest that It's not easy to separate rock and roll from just popular music as it is arose during the you know the inception of what ends up being the music industry so You know when you said I. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the difference between the Beatles and Elvis and the rolling stones and the rolling stones are typically considered to be the sort of blues your for lack of a better term the blacker like the the Beatles. Yeah I mean what I mean is like the Beatles literally didn't give a shit about electric blues like as far as it's known John Lennon hadn't heard Jimmy Reeves for example until the night he went home and the Beatles went home with rolling stones and hung out together for the first time. In Brian Jones starts playing it's Jimmy Reeves records like whereas when I grew up rock and roll history of you. We would talk about Robert Johnson and Hank Williams and then we would go into Elvis basically and and to me. It's like that leaves out Louis. Jordan and Bob Wills or these enormous speakers that are much more directly direct antecedents to Elvis and Beatles Beatles. Were Way Way Way. Way More into stuff like Ray Charles And motown and you know all the classic I way rock-n-rollers the Chuck Berry's and Elvis Little Richard and paid no mind to muddy waters. Howlin Wolf Fini Electric Blues. Which I I mean I'm not trying to diminish those guys at all American masters and that wave does come into rock but I feel like fifties rock and roll and one thing I learned from talking to Ed and reading. The book was yeah. There were multiple African American audiences at the time and the blues tended to be heard by older African Americans and country African Americans. You know people that were maybe there were in Chicago or Los Angeles but they were recent immigrants from the south you know and the more sophisticated younger. African Americans who grew up in the cities looked down on them. I mean I'm sure you've heard the slower Bam getting thrown around you know and and that's that was very informative to me anyway. So you know those kind of things. I was hoping came across and in the series you know. What are the things that I interesting about? Like the way the Beatles and the rolling stones were fitted into the book is that It seemed as though there was a dearth of information and available recordings Cetera for young people in England. And it's like like the advent of skiffle seems strangely out of step with the Times you know. It was sort of focused on this relatively small and narrow version of music. I think coming up New Orleans and you know that's what blew up for a period of time in England. Yeah it's it's it's interesting. It was interesting to see that you know out of this. You know this was a A real it didn't seem like there was a real broad chalice that the Beatles Started risk but that they they started to veraciously consume. Whatever that they could get hold up wasn't real clear to me. You know where they were getting their. They're sort of musical antecedents from But it's definitely I. It's definitely clear that that the Beatles were much more in that kind of Eclectic you know camp that I think Elvis ended up moving into right in in that that the the rolling stones really accessed if you wanted to like try and make a split about that Yeah so the towns are sort of. I mean there's definitely started out. As purists an event evangelize in rhythm and Blues and their definition of the blues now and Brian joined his letters to take it was melody maker. Make it very clear. He didn't consider You know stuff like Ruth Brown to be rhythm blues. He he considered that to be black. Pop Music And he was you know harder on say Brook Benton or somebody like that then. He was on on Ruth Round but but in a he considered rhythm blues to be this urban blues. How Wolf Muddy Waters Etcetera Etcetera and manage to rewrite history? I think that that united sound had such an influence. I mean one thing. That's that and this is off topic but you know if you look at the history of British rock music. The stones are very much the starting point in a way that the Beatles are Kinda dead end. I mean you know if the bands that are directly influenced by the Beatles. What the searchers. The hollies sharing the pacemakers. That line doesn't really continue. You could kind of say that kinks or the kinks were in London and much. Too much more influenced by the town's kind of the rock band as it were and everybody after them you know. Kinda followed their lead and in a way. That like David Bowie to me Dylan. Aided what is punk rock what is pro punk? You know like even do Boeing's kind of left out of the histories of punk rock to me. It's like this is the guy who picked up who popularized salvage underground. This is the guy who saved the stooges and you know the only reason anybody go ahead of you pop. Yeah Oh little pop and you know and put the stooges for it and and kind of codified. This velvet stooges New York dolls thing. But that's kind of a tangent but like how much you have walked you definitely have watershed artists. Who because they get their first because their their vision is so strong and passionate and and they have done a certain amount of homework you know that they lead the way and and I you know again. It seemed like the amount of information that was available to youth in England during the fifties regarding American rock even regarding Blues Rhythm and Blues Jump Blues any of that kind of stuff it seemed like it was relatively limited. Yeah so I want to show up with their version of it. And they're not just their version of the music but their version of the history and what constitutes you know for lack of a better term? Authentic lose rock. You know something that that. The kids CAN GRASP. Hold up and call their owes. You know. They're obviously they. They lead the way you know and and one of the things that comes out of this. Is that the beetle that the stones were were trying to you know by the end of the book. It's stones are trying to find their way into the spotlight and into the songwriting. You Know Song Publishing Game and all that sort of thing and the Beatles had had already like steak the claims a deep understanding of how that was all going to work and they already On their way to using a broader palette to create a wide range of music right that. Yeah obviously isn't going to be very blues oriented and it's just you know it's it's interesting to me that a like to me one of the most important things about the Beatles and the stone is they represent this moment where there is a real whether or not the the British population had access to allow these recordings etc. There were a lot of recordings right. And there was a pallet was available and by by the late fifties and early sixties. You know this pal. Starting to all get melded together. And you're starting to instead of having you know like Bo Diddley. Who has his boat? Diddley beat and he tried to apply it out of things to surf music or whatever but it's still always just kind of this sort of Mero application. I Love Bo. Diddley even immensely influential important but he also has the serve limited aspects. You have Chuck Berry. Who who has his his his salvage his approach and even though he really tries to you now the worldwide representative of rock and roll and in fact it is In his in his way and even though he he tries to do things like write songs and Spanish he does write songs in Spanish he. He writes Anthony boy which is trying to put him in the Italian population with you know some sort of dialogue with another a friend. Who's an Italian American and it has? These China Stereotypical Talion Pop Music. Kind of risks in it. But it's still this sort of narrow chuck Berry kind of thing you start getting these bands. These people who put together bands who that are made up on multiple individuals who are steeping themselves in for you know what amounts to to the top music and pre rock and roll and early rock and roll cannon and they start using this powder and putting it together in these really imaginative ways and start setting the table for you. Know the years that are gonNA come directly after the the close of the the timeframe that's considered the book where there's just this tremendous explosion of of stuff that's just rock and roll all these different iterations of rock and roll. I mean it's by nineteen sixty three. Or what like two three years away from the Velvet Underground Catholic party yeah on Weei Dot Com and I think that that comes from these bands starting to take up. You know the Palette and starting to play with it much the way Elvis did when he came back to me army you know. Yeah and let's get to that but first I want WanNa play our first song snippet. This is Jackie Brenston with Ike Turner on Piano Rocket. Eighty eight the lobby. The knowing the does Maharaj screen and everybody likes my rock and Rodman Style and that was Jackie Brenton's rock. Ada which should probably have been. I turn his rhythm kings rocket. Ada Book for some record companies. Chicanery named the you know made the singer the artists of record but like a lot of people say that's the first rock and roll record. Edward doesn't Edward doesn't want to concede anything is rock and roll. Basically until a little Richard but for me rocket. Ada is pretty close to it. 'cause you can you know. Elijah Wald until other people WANNA push it back a little bit too. Like Roy Brown's good rocking tonight or why Nonni Harris version but to me. That stuff is clearly swing. I mean if you listen to it it's got a nineteen forties feel. It's got horns and but rocket eighty eight is very punk rock. It's got a distorted guitar. There's a saxophone but not a big horn section and it's swings but it rocks as much as it swings. Yeah I don't have a real dog in the fight over the first rock and roll song. Yeah any. Excuse me anybody who thinks that rocket. Ada Is the first rock and roll. Saw An excellent argument. Because all I have to do is listen to and you can hear the song you lock it. Has it has a a momentum to it in it has a sort of violence to it. That is what I think generally associated with with rock and roll In in you know I guess the way war described little. Richard's you know planting a flag For Rock and roll. It seemed it seems to me that he he associated that with the drumming. Yeah homers four four right the the violence and the persistence of this drumming and and I agree with that whether or not you know that constitutes the first rock and roll. I think you know That the drums being added to the blues. If you go back to like Arthur credit and his mid forties recordings where he. He's just you know electric guitar but he has a drummer with him. Even when it's not upbeat you know it's more like a scuffle. Utterly changes the feel and the experience of the blues and it starts to connect the music with machine. Sounds with the sounds of you. Know the locomotives and you know the drums are a martial instrument you know if makes everybody in the room You know pay attention to the same meter. It brings everybody online. Makes IT EASIER TO DANCE? And you if YOU LISTEN TO THOSE THOSE ARTHUR. Credit reportings Like rock me baby. You you start to hear that that train sound and it just catches you and it starts to propose you forward and it starts to bring the blues into that you know into that rhythm and Blues Arena and it starts to bring the Blues and Rhythm and Blues in the Pop music. That's GonNa come from that online with some of the jazz music that came before from you know from the jazz age and the band agent within the swing age where they are. Clearly you know producing these trump's that were reminiscent of factory lies and then locomotive experience the train etc and I think that's important because that back east. It's something that helps to formulate and Marshall attention and Marshall Energy and connect it with youth cultures. I mean the Jazz H has what I consider to be the first real modern youth culture and and and so once you get the little Richard in that drumbeat you know you. You have this formula that as is it just catchers listener and brings you in on this very visceral level and you can build all of the other cultural and musical and business ideas all around that beat all around the pulse and to me it starts. That's that starts to short with with chronic. Yeah and I`ve. I've probably should've played the credit I but about plant my flag or the rocket will plague credit here in a bit but one thing that that we talked about offline before Star in the show was gonna hit you for. What did we miss? And I think I think you're bringing up the flappers in the youth culture is key and added the about the flappers and he did leave out the beats and to me the other the musical thing that he left out. That's the most important is jazz. And Louis Armstrong to me the fact that Louis Armstrong played on Some of the first blues records. You know you talked about Mamie. Smith's things crazy blues the first big blue's head Andy. Played with Jimmie Rodgers On I'm blanking on which song what he played with. Jimmie Rodgers key song and to me. That says that the jazz you know and and Louis Armstrong's contribution to music is Improvised Solo. And you know because before you know potato head blues these other recordings with the hot five and hot seven something like the original dixieland jazz band. That was jazz at the time. That was a worldwide smash and we sort of retroactively decided. That wasn't jazz because it was an improvised in that Paul. Whiteman wasn't jazz. Because it wasn't improvised. It didn't swing but if you were there in. The twenties doubt was jazz and your report. Why was the King of Jazz? Yeah perhaps but yeah I don't I I personally don't buy any. I think that's all nonsense. I think I think that's all the early stuff jazz even if there isn't improvisation and the core of what we consider to be jazz. Is there and again? This is a rhythm and and and racket place. Yeah Yeah Molly and racket essentially with the original jazzman anyway but but like you said you find that that you felt like you could understand why add had left it out because you start pulling on the jazz threat then you have a much bigger story to tell but I just feel like since jazz so dominated popular music in the twenties and the thirties you know in the thirty s swing and then rock and roll clearly if offs from Jump Blues which comes straight from swing through Louis Jordan. I just don't think you can leave that out. And trying to prove that argument went back and listen to a bunch of early count basie and Kansas City six and stuff and I really sort came to the conclusion that Bob Wills and the Texas playboys had more to do with rock and roll and count. Basie did because that Dan Pohl Kobe and the drums. You know come through and if the martial beat like you're talking about whereas basis drummers Phil Johnson Company. They're always swinging in their work in the the symbols. More than the bay strong. And you know. What do you think of that argument? I mean to me. It's like the two grandfathers Rockin Roller Bob Wills and Louis Jordan I. I mean I definitely. I definitely think that You know importance of of something like Bob Wills who is not just providing this. You call. Toll competes an easily danceable beat. But it's all he's also somebody. Who's out there churning through cultural output? You Know Ed was talking about him. Showing up in in various towns and running off color. Time to grab the latest information recordings. What have you from African American sources? You and you know that. Kind of cross colonization is so important and And so you know those kinds of Creative efforts are exactly what leads to the growth of some kind of new Newly formulated music. I do want to say one thing about about jazz I I. I don't have a problem with being left out of the story As as as far as like continuing to return to it. But I do think that the the history of rock and roll is a book is a little bit weakened by the fact that during the torsion book covers and the thirty and even into the forties. You need to mention jazz. Because it is the dominant youth. Culture is a very. It's it is the popular musical format and it sort of starts to carve out some of the space. That's going to later. Be TAKEN UP BY RHYTHM. And Blues by country by country swing. Have you right? Yeah and musicians you know while the society may have have wanted to to create divisions between races at Senator Decisions. Often didn't care about that thought of it as an impediment and they certainly were aware of a lot of these guys were aware over became aware of whether they were white or black. You know rural urban overtime you become aware of these important contributions from the jazz circuit. I I think I think that your assessment of wills and certainly have Louis Jordan. Those are two very important. Incredibly talented in conceptual. Especially Bob Wills and his consultants. Yeah putting all this together it you know. It's very easy to overlook the importance of those of those contributions To to what's going to become rock and roll and I I WANNA play a little snippet of rock me. Are Arthur credits? Slow me one time. He knows what me baby by Arthur up which is your is a nineteen forties country blues man but with a drum guitar drums so definitely. I'm not denying it's very important in evolution of American music and a huge influence on rock music. I just think that you know that the influence of Blues on rock and roll comes later. It sort of bifurcated. Although it's important to know like at pointed out that lose like if you listen to the bear family blowing the fuse compilation which is our hits from. Nineteen forty-five to nineteen sixty highly highly. Highly recommended it. Gives you this real feel for what was on Juke? Boxes from the forties to the throughout the fifties and you'll hear these country blues songs. John Lee Hooker and others had hit singles on. Jukebox has the distinction. That ad pointed out was they weren't on the Chitlins circuit. They were playing little clubs and Detroit and Chicago and Memphis in a few other places and soon as they go down to Houston but the big rb groups. You know Roy Brown and Charles Brown Harris and Ruth Brown and lavern Baker and others. There were working that Chitlins Circa and plan to a whole different crowd of African American fans. And I think will probably reaching this young white audience starting to get introduced to our B and sets the groundwork that's going to become the rock and roll generation in a way that muddy waters was not. But that's sort of a side tangent to what we're talking about and I wanted to get back to what you were saying about Bob Wills and Louis Jordan. Well I mean you know actually. I don't think I have very much more to say about those. Those guys I mean I I personally have a decent viney loved from Louis Jordan. Blue and he is clever. I'm sorry go ahead. Go ahead and appreciate Louis Jordan for a second. I don't WanNa stop by that because I've I've really come to love Louis as well. Well I mean just you know aside from his historical import or how threads any of this all together. He's just you know very talented songwriter. Very entertaining person And you know his career Demonstra he's one of those people. If you follow his career you can see him reinventing himself as he needed to you know From insult the disc era and then after the after the war he does starts to write songs on I. I don't know the name off the top of my head but there's something he did in forty seven forty eight that's like a very blistering rock and roll kind of Song. Yeah the Saturday night fish fry for one jumps out. And here's the thing I wanted to bring up to you and and and I think as an African American you can speak to this in a way that I can't but my take on Louis Jordan. Is that you know. This is a guy who was so dominant in the nineteen forties. People don't have any concept because he's I'd forgotten but this is a guy who you know. In a couple years there in the late forties like had five or six of the top. Ten rb hit two. There would be Louis Jordan songs. Plus he was on the pop charts like a Mojo and yet by the early fifties I mean is having his last hit by fifty one or fifty two tries to Quincy Jones even takes him in the studio and a fifties rerecord his classic hits with like the Mickey Baker King Curtis Session banned from Atlantic records that was dominating the charts at the time. And does it really get any traction and I think one thing that we've seen over and over again is the African American audiences do not want to look back and I think Louis Jordan was a victim of that because I think his sense of humor and he was all even for his time. You know at Callaway Chuck. Berry was old older than Elvis and his other musical contemporaries. Louis Jordan was actually older than most people that were hot in the forties. He you know. His peers tended to breakthrough in the thirties. And and there's an element of self effacing humor and I roll in and other things. I think that the next generation know the bebop generation viewed as as uncle. Tom Ism I mean. Do you think it's fair to say that? Yeah elaborate now a little bit. Well what will I would say is that I don't know if it's a simple thing. African American audiences don't like to look back like do think that what you know what you have is that When when you have these cultural products that come out of the African American community that she a certain level of success and those those forms in those those the expressive tendencies and up getting sort of CO opted by for lack of a better term. You Know White Society or the broader mainstream society. You know the the the especially the young African American community especially Young African American community with arose during the post war period. They wanted to continue to. Have you know their their own premature on new music coming out of their communities and you did have the tendency to look back on these these great artists who created timeless music In in the young the young kids in the African American community were just moving on moving on with their fashionable. Moving on with their with their musical tastes the expectations of popular culture politics the economy all of that they look back on. Louis Armstrong and Louis Jordan and a lot of these allow the big band era. All that stuff just gets wiped off the face of planet for this. You know by Real Blues Motown jazz all that in like bebop hard bop all that kind of stuff and that's that's that's the nature of it You know we should have a little at some point. We should have a little conversation about technology. Yeah works because because it's not just disappears and there are people within the African American community. That will you know older people. Even some of the young people that will point you backwards you know and they want you to look at Louis original order. Louis Armstrong Nicholas Brothers. Or what have you? And they look at these amazing towns. You know look a cab. Calloway you can look a cab. Calloway I'd say he's a cloud you know or you can look cab. Calloway and say he's brilliant performers of all time or he does transcends all of these. You know these temporal changes that occur in style etc does happen. That's because of the nature of of the of the technology of according KC. Yeah and I'm glad you brought up the technology because how does huge part of it and that's one thing. I thought Ed did a great job of bringing together the way that the shift in the collapse and SHELLAC availability and World War Two and the musicians union strike at the same time which is in technological. But it's cultural but then the emergence of vinyl records you know I in two competing formats the forty five single and the thirty three Rpm Long player but also magnetic tape recording comes along and people like Les Paul. Mitch Miller pioneer the use of this stuff for overdubbed and the creation of the produced record and so You know that becomes more and more factor but one interesting thing about rock and roll is very much a punk medium. And Insofar as it's produced by people who don't have a lot of resources like Sam Phillips or the Chess Studios these were not top of the line studios. This was not. They were not working with equipped by comparable to what say Columbia Decca had or capitol records in La. The it's pretty homebrew stuff. Even send me like Sam Phillips. Who's kind of a tech genius with his slap back echo in different things that he admitted? But it's pretty kitchen sink and said that does you know the implications of overdubbed come into rock and roll until George and a Beatles And the lights sixties. Even though some early experiments like with Buddy Holly's Posthumous work that they opened up a ton of stuff under these demo tapes. He made in his bedroom. But you know that that sort of an aberration so you know we got von onset of SHELLAC metallic magnetic tape in the studio and then What what other big technological innovations in this crime you know fifty to sixty three period. Are we talking about that? We Miss Anything. Well I mean you. You can talk about the equipment for us you know. Some of the microphones and and those types of things And they they changed the quality of the sound and the fidelity of the sound I you know when I when not not just go off in a in a totally different tangent or or try to to dragon conversation and a completely different direction. But when I when I started thinking about the technology it's just like in in a broad sense these recordings allow for Condensing of time and space that we live in this space it allows these moments of creativity in one community to be captured and sort of copy. You know mind so to speak and then passed around not only two different other communities but through ties right and they in and that because of that you start to have the ability of people in one community to sit and listen to the cultural output of another community in their own little bedroom in their living room in the bars or whatever the church the Church meeting rooms and and the influence of that is hard to overstate. You know it's just it's if you don't have those recordings and you have to just go to the places where these people are playing once you start to have these recordings time and space. It's crushed and even defeat it you know and some of some of the social structures that are in place start to get troubled and start to to to bend and warp. You know really Dividing Lines between racism issues are in those sorts of things and as a result of of the nature of the technology in the way it if it works within society as a whole especially when you also Adam Radio shoe boxes but even television film. You you start to to to have these circumstances. During the first period where that overall push in the United States and even in the West to use democracy as a buffer against the kind of shot a catastrophic you know political carnage that came to bear on the first two World War. Right one of the chief responded as well. Hey you know. Democracy can help us. Avoid you know such cataclysms. Democracy involves this. Let's let's give voice to some of these marginalized people in. Let's let's look at the idea of quality in our society differently and rock and roll and in popular music in general ends up having a very important part in the progress of of these democratic ideals etc and a lot of that comes from the technology from your ability should get a little rich you know for for for a a young white male or female to order a little Richard Record and take it to their bedroom and listen to it. You know and absorb as personal experience and fitted into their laws. You know yeah and let me jump in interrupt you because I wanNA play Johnny Brunette the Rock and roll trio's trained kept a role Serbia from New York City. And we'd probably with he just tweeted Johnny Burnette and the Rock and roll. Trio's trained kept a role in sort of pick that song because it's an example of what white kits produced after they'd been hearing this African American music and the case of the burnette brothers. They were in Memphis and they were actually going to the black clubs and CNN bb King. And Johnny Ace and these guys live but they're also hearing it on the radio and hearing it on record and the feedback on that record. You know it's way ahead of its time and and so that I grabbed that one. 'cause it's sums up a moment when these white kids are given licensed just go eight and beyond controlled in a way that had been allowed in white culture before and had been allowed an African American culture. But just because you know basically the big money in the big power didn't care what was going on in African American culture and the kids. Were not being served by you. Know How much is that Doggie in the window? And and on top of old smokey and all that kind of stuff that was being put out in the early fifties. Which if you look at that stuff as a balm for the PTSD of World War Two makes sense but the kids hadn't been in combat and they hadn't been separated and so on and so they wanted the wild and they wanted the frenzy and and the rock and roll. Got It to it. And I want to say because we don't have much time and there's one more point I want to get to. Which is you know. There's this like I'm glad you brought up to. The there was an inch interest on the part of sort of liberal leaders like Franklin Delano Roosevelt and other architects of society to democratize. But that once it starts happening then there's a backlash on the part of things like the Memphis draft board and specific F. B. I. Agents. And and you know there. There's this muddy Eddie flow and so you know. The first wave of rock and roll is very brief. It's a one or two year period and then there's this effort to get it under control but it's not totally artificial. I mean if you listened to Fabian and stuff like that. You're like Jesus you know what happened to this music you know. These guys can't sing the song writing's terrible Blah Blah Blah but at the same time. You've got Phil Spector with the Teddy Boys. And you've got Berry Gordy a hasn't for motown yet. But he's he's you know. Cut Tracks with Jackie. Wilson Mark Johnston and has come along but I think one thing that's happening is in America. You're evolve in an assembly line production of rock and roll that by the early sixties. You know. I think it's a puppy his motown where you cannot deny. What Berry Gordy accomplished? I mean great music whether you WanNa call it rock and roll or soul or pop you know or just motown. I mean you can't deny the artistic achievement. Yeah what what. Berry Gordy puts together and even stacks you. Start talking about An Amalgam you know and Berry Gordy specifically goes out and says you know. I'm I don't want my business to beget arrived. I want my business to reach white people. That's where the money is. I want my my business to to to be as available as possible. Even if we have different charting you know systems even the society is. Is You know. Ebbing and flowing with ideas of equality and integration. And all this sort of thing he's put in this business out there amazing music but it's you know he wants to like sell everybody and yeah that's you know. I think that you know there. Is this kind of a lull with you know in the late sixties in in into the early in America and it gets still with teeny bopper music and and you know these things that don't seem exciting or authentic and don't really carry forward the momentum in the substance of contents of rock and roll that will that had previously made it exciting drawn people in and that was going to in the future you know. Continue to draw new generations and and to just sort of new ideas like do think that You I think I mentioned earlier. I during that timeframe you know those recordings of Elvis did when he gets out of the army it demonstrates that there's this Palette available at that point and everybody started to stir it up. And those those elvis recordings very influenced by Hollywood Hollywood's method of crunching together lots for cultural perspectives. And and you know just lambing it together in ways. That don't always make sense. But you know like before he goes to the army. He goes to see the king creole recordings when he gets out he starts putting together. These amazing recorded that are are are mishmash of rock and roll and show tunes Broadway tunes and and you know romantic. Lila's rally beef everything everything and and you know when we were talking about Bob Wills earlier And we we haven't really gotten into the labels that you know you can talk about the Erwin brothers. Who who who ran Atlantic? You're talking about these people. Who are these massive recollections and they they were making themselves aware of this power and when you think about Elvis in the armed forces in his tank vision or whatever in Europe he had a two thousand records with him service at a point in time where they haven't been making recordings for that very law. That's an that's an absolutely unbelievable. Immense collection of music that he felt necessary to take long with him and when he gets back he starts to put this stuff together in ways. That even if it's necessarily in of itself important for the continued development of rock and roll it demonstrates that there's this path people are working with. Yeah and I'm glad you brought up period because that's actually ns Harrison. But probably my favorite Elvis period. I mean you know. Especially when he's when he's doing songs by Doc promise and mort Shuman little sister. It'd be the Las Vegas and and you know he's still got Scottie. They got rid of bill. Black D J Fontana Zenon out. He's still got Scottie But he's also plan with the nascent wrecking crew in La. And so you've got killer studio band in Los and win Alvarez trying and when he's got good material You know he does some really great stuff and but at the same time you know you sort of dismissed that dark ages period which it's definitely not as exciting visceral as the fifty seven fifty eight and fifty six fifty eight golden age. But when you look at the Brill building and what people I promise Shuman and what Carole King Gerry Goffin and you know what Phil Spector was doing and even somebody like Neil Sadaqa. Who's WHO's the when we were growing up. As Gen xers The sky was completely laughable seventies soft rock and if you even were aware of his hits from the fifties. I remember just having a complete homophobic panic when I the first time I saw the calendar girl video you got Nelson dock in his. Pink coveralls bids. What is this but if you act really learn about it you know this is. This is incredibly talented pop. Composer plan with King Curtis and Mickey Baker and and writing songs. I mean there's a real body of work and I think to me. The Beatles are the connecting bridge. They're the ones that were hearing the Cheryl's will you still love me tomorrow? And and then he kissed me and stuff like that and bring it altogether and in a way that because they were so self-contained and because they came up around the same time as Bob Dylan whose another independent songwriter self contained unit then creates this conflict between what the American record business had codified as an assembly line manufacturer of music. We'll take the best singer and they'll sing and we'll take the best songwriters and they'll write songs. We'll take the best instrumentalists and you know you've got hot road band. Great but I want to record these guys that are going to give me the track in forty five minutes. Not your band. It's GonNa take me no six hours and you know. And and there's this conflict going on and and it doesn't really come to the surface and hopefully I'll get to talk about with that if we talk about the second book but in that conflict explodes with the monkeys. Where you've got Don Kirshner the king of the billing since the Beatles wouldn't a TV show they try to fake one and yet great music voice in Heart? Neil diamond all these other great songwriters. Great wrecking crew backing Micky. Dolenz is a pretty good singer. Mike Nasmyth Peter Yorker talented and contributing. But there's this real backlash because the Beatles create this notion that music should be self contained and that's a big conflict. That's GONNA come up. I mean. Do you think that the Beatles were just a such a freak one off thing because of the confluence of their talent and their opportunity that they research and everything or do you think that would have happened anyway without the Beatles? Oh I mean I think they got their first and they just they happen to be. The ban was ready to take advantage of of that circumstance. I they are. You can't help but look at it and think of them as a one off. Nobody else really did what they did. I definitely think that the the Beatles you know fouling on the idea of Elvis is somebody who puts you know he? He chose the song she wanted to record. What's in sixty sixty? Ron chose the people he wanted to play with he kind of starts to put his own imprimatur on it. He's he's he's creative in a sort of bandleader way. Bob Wills was then the Beatles are right there just a couple of years later. They're like not only putting together their own songs or their own like platelets. They're writing songs. They're going after the publishing game and they do they utterly turn the whole thing around. I I want to say one thing else about this sort of idea of this. This dark period. I think I think that this period where it wasn't quite as exciting. Have you fifty nine? Fifty sixty sixty one is that you know. At this point you start to get the creation of a youth culture that it that the The business world is really starting to get their hooks. I'm starting to understand that They can sell to these people and they're they're starting to trying and figure it out one of the things that they start trying to sell to the youth is the idea of the smoldering inner psychology the smoldering inter individuality the rebel. And that's That that kind of package requires or at least i. If naturally leads to a desire to hear the artists voiced their own music you know and and voice their own creations as opposed to like seeing some song that somebody else just recorded two months earlier you know. And it's you know the important you go from a timeframe where in before to you didn't really try to take into consideration what was inside the mind of a teenager and you didn't even really think teenagers as this sort of segmented A salable population of consumers but after World War. Two by the end of the forties. You certainly do see teenagers that way. Tv starts to be able to market to them directly and in the radio and so you you have the situation where you know. Suddenly what teenagers thinks matters. You know suddenly what teenagers want and how they view the world starts to be something that controls the attention or at least draws strong attention from advertisers etc. And you start to get this youth culture that while they may think they can control it and while they may think that you know in the Don Kirshner sort of way that they can just kind of poor product into it. Obviously the overall music industry will explode in the sixties with a lot of products. That comes directly out of this is my voice. Young Person Youth Culture. Has this idea. I think I think I mentioned to you. In one of our offline conversations or or sharing votes that I'm always fascinated by the late fifties monster movies Wherein you have rock and roll culture smashed together with car and hot rod culture as they fight off these these monsters you know and and they they go to the adult and they say there's this problem there's this problem it's a sailing our community. What are you GonNa do the adults? Don't take them seriously choice. And so then. The kids take on the problem themselves. As in the Blob for instance excellent classic. Yeah and and you know. Hollywood's has a way of locating these kinds of trends and exploiting them with a strange precision. You know even though they kind of do in a crab like fashion and I think that that kind of attention to youth culture and to the voices of young people is is really kind of stirring there in that period where it does were where the first vanguard of rock and roll to the chuck. There is a little Richard's not only did they find themselves in various kinds of troubles better but their ability to to adapt to. There's no there's there's no they can't follow up. They don't have that ability. There's and let's talk about that but I wanNA play a song which is Ray is what I hope see word. She knows how to sit. Now's Ray Charles. Classic what I say and when Rachel was inducted into the hall of fame in the Eighties I can remember trying to figure out. What is it about Rachel? That's rock and roll I mean I was you know Ray Charles was omnipresent on TV and in the media and the seventies and eighties. But I didn't really understand until I heard what I say and then I listened to the Beatles and day tripper and I feel fine and somebody songs that are complete rewrite to that riff and understanding what I say was like an atomic bomb in the Liverpool music aid in the Hamburg music scene that that was absolutely definitive. And Ray Charles is an exception to what we were just talking about. Which is this failure to have an act to me right. Charles had like seven acts. He had a singles career. Which is you know I got a woman in these. Things were incorporates Gospel into our mb and that's his contribution to the rock and roll stretch but at the same time. He was playing jazz albums and then he segues changes record labels leaves. Atlantic the major label ABC and his modern sounds in country and western which I think was rightfully acknowledged on the Ken Burns. Documentary is very important in American cultural history to to see this top of the world pop African American pop performer embrace country Western etcetera etcetera. But he's the only guy I mean you're you're you're trying to make a case. That was has an act to after he gets out of the army. And I think you know if you just look at like Elvis's back yeah you can see that's beginning and if you cherry pick the singles you can make a case for that but at the same time that the next thing he does is g. I blues and blue and pretty soon. He's being dragged down. You know into the crab and shit like that. And I I think with Elvis though it is really important about those recordings just demonstrates that there's this Palette and there's the beginning of this sort of alchemy to create new new horizons I don't I. I think Elvis becomes completely different kinds of talk entertainer and and he leaves the conversation as far as rock and roll. You know it's But you know Ray Charles is one of these guys who's just. He's so tremendously talented right and he has no like real I WOULDN'T I. I'm not aware of them. Are Real associated with any particular genre. You know and people don't have that expectation he he kind of moves back and forth. I think if you look at somebody else who had more than one acts Named James Brown. Yeah there. You're talking about somebody who was like. Oh this is what James Brown and then through sheer will and through sheer. You know the violence of his talent. He breaks out of you know doldrums in us. Plants flag and then in several subsequent integration but also take place. Bring a timeframe. That's not considered them book. Yeah coming but innocent timeframe he invents soul essentially I mean he he along with Charles and other says the forefront of inventing Saul and that live at the Apollo album is absolutely a flag planet at Absolute Summit of Pop success for soul music. And and so yeah. James Brown is a clear exception to that rule. And but James Brown I mean he's he's an exception. Everything like easily. I think you know you could say Louis. Armstrong and James Brown the two most important musicians of the twentieth century in America mini. There's some other people to argue but those guys have place but people like you know obviously Buddy Holly Eddie Cochran. Those guys died too young before they can have a chance to the second act but the Little Richard Has Christian conversion and never has a second act. Jerry Lewis has his various moral disasters and can't have a second act although he does have a second active instantly by going hardcore country very successfully being a check berry never does he also had legal problems. So it's Kinda hard to say that I mean now. Most none of those guys really got a shot at fats. Domino is the exception there and he just did his fats. Domino saying yeah. I have a second act his his act just kind of continues because he's kind of a squeaky clean character you know. He's he's a harmless personas and he has a couple of songs that people like to continue. Only here you know anyone who's consistent hitmaker and and flew the flag for New Orleans You know but didn't have the never never built on an away that Dylan and the Beatles that that chameleon aspect or the Neon Chrysalis the butterfly aspect that become so dominant in Iraq genre. I mean Phil Spector's definitive guy who never had a second act. I mean he couldn't get past. You've lost that love and feel any tries with Tina Turner and Ike Turner on successfully. Then basically pallets goes away does have second act with the Beatles and so on. But he's not the primary artists on that and I just I don't know it just fascinates me about the first rock and roll era very much like the English punk era. Where that and even the New York Pont? There's no classes seventy seven artists other than well. Okay the clash and the JAM. Do you have seconds? But you know there's this big falloff whereas like the buzzcocks can't think of what to do next the sex pistols obviously implode so the sort of you know fascinated by the fact that none of the original first wave of rock and rollers came up with a follow up plan. I went to what what I think is amazing. Is that subsequent you know? It doesn't occur during the timeframe considered on the book but directly after you have this version of artistic ideas connected specifically with rock and roll. That creates a number of artists who have not just first second act or whatever but who begins to think of rock and roll and pop music et. Cetera as something that they can continually play with and transmogrify and and and change and that that goes on for a relatively short period of pot right like not by by the early eighties. A lot of these bands of kind of exhausted their ability to to reinvent themselves. I mean you know the Beatles go through a number of different stages you have the rolling stones who go through a number of different stages like a belly a heavy Blues Country Blues. You know in in some of the early eighties late Seventies. You have them trying their hand. Disco and with New reggae. Yeah reggae all these kinds of things in in in in that. That sort of ecumenical agnostic. That you start to see with those elvis recordings that I keep returning to it it's explodes through the sixties in all the way up to the eighties but after that it's hard to find any band this becomes talk or subsequent to that ties. Have that have those kinds of burying stages and those kinds of Experimental sustained evolution? Yeah like to talk about at some point. Because you know. Bands like t rex or black sabbath or the rebounds were really knocked at the time because they didn't evolve over the course of three or four albums they just put out the same great album over and over again. Acdc so definitive an AC DC's for the first one that was self consciously doing that so so yeah let's let's have you back on the show and we'll we'll confront questions like that. So this is your a Campbell. Phd Thanks for coming on the show. I think I'M GONNA call this series what we learned on. Let it roll. So you're a camel. I hope we can come back. Repeat this delightful conversation. I would love to come back on and you know drill down further into this or any other of these books have some other ideas. Excellent looking forward to it. Thanks very follow the let it roll podcast on twitter at let it roll. Cast a check out our website at let it roll. Podcast DOT COM. Next week. Ed Board returns to begin discussing the second volume of his history of rock and roll with nate. They'll be covering nineteen sixty four and nineteen sixty five. The the British invasion and America's folk rock response. Let it roll is a pen podcast and you can listen to all the other. Great Pantheon podcasts at. Www DOT pantheon podcasts dot com the history of rock and Roll Volume One nineteen twenty to nineteen sixty three is published by flatiron books. Please support our show by ordering via the Amazon referral link on our website. Let it roll. Podcast DOT COM. Hi Everyone beer-drinking Babes. I'm Ashley now Nagy. And we're from rock candy podcast. Every week we bring you a story from the world of music while Drinking Somatic Beers. Did you wonder how much Charles Manson inspired the music? You love today. Did you know that joy division and new order are virtually the same band? Are you aware of how we're Tesha really is like how she had sex with a ghost? Do you also not understand what post Malone is. Because we don't well we got you covered behind the music around anymore. But we're here to pick up the slack and feel a little drunker. Yeah so go ahead and look for rocky podcast on apple podcasts. Spotify Google play stitcher tune in or if you're catcher pods and with that party on kids tardy on.

Beatles Times Elvis Louis Jordan Bob Wills Ed Ward Edward Louis Armstrong Chuck Berry Richard Record Ray Charles Jimmie Rodgers African American community Don Kirshner New York City Roy Brown twitter Arthur
New show from Ben - LOST HILLS

The Score: Bank Robber Diaries

13:33 min | Last month

New show from Ben - LOST HILLS

"Hey everybody it's been hope you doing good. It's been quite a year since bank robber. Diaries ended and i wanted to let you know that it's been a super super busy year for us at western sound. We've just put out a brand new show that i know you are going to love if you're into the bank robber diaries. You're going to love our new podcast. It's called lost hills. Lost hills is a new podcast. With the new yorkers dana goodyear that she and i put together about the horrifying story of a man who was shot in the head and twenty eighteen while camping with his two young daughters. An idyllic malibu california after his death the cops followed a crumb trail of clues and arrested a survivalist. They found camping in the woods. And that's when things really went off the rails. Lost hills is a shocking mystery that you're not going to be able to stop listening to so we're gonna play a little excerpt so you can hear what the show sounds like. It's super amazing. You're going to want to go subscribe right now. It's called lost hills here it is. Here's what i know. When i started all this is not a lot. It was before sunrise. June twenty second two thousand eighteen and the campground. Malibu creek state park was packed. It's an idyllic spot. Campsites are arranged in a ring around. A large meadow dotted with oak trees jagged peaks across the open sky. It was four in the morning. Still doc everyone was inside their nylon tents and rv's cozy in their sleeping bags for a couple more hours but someone was awake watching silent undetected slipping shadow like around the sleeping campground. He had a gun and fired. Directly into one families tanked inside. The tent was a man named tristen. Baudat a brilliant young research scientists thirty five years old. He was sleeping beside his two little girls. The bullet struck his forehead killing him. And whoever did it slipped away into the darkness. It's like a story. That's meant to terrify you playing on your deepest fears a store you tell around a campfire with ghosts and murderers and things. You can't explain accept. This story is true. And once. I heard it. I couldn't stop thinking about it. How did this happen. How does anything like this. Happen in. Malibu of all places but it did happen in malibu and as it come to find out inexplicable nightmarish. Things happen malibu all the time tonight. A mystery in malibu driver found a man dead in a ditch along loss vs canyon road. There've also been nine additional calls for shots fired I just don't feel safe anymore breaking now. A homicide investigation. We do have a nude body and it's still unclear exactly how it got here. It is a suspicious death. The human bones were just a half mile from the trail head. We could possibly somebody screaming for help. Detectives tonight trying to figure out who he is and who killed him. I'll tell you what they'll be standing with pitchforks outside law. so sheriff's department said i hollered. Are you all right. She said i'm just resting coming at once. You left. she just disappeared. After tristan baudat staff. It came out that there had been a series of crimes that were kept hidden from the public. People were being targeted in and around. Malibu creek state park debt was not the first victim for two years before the brutal murder. There was a series of shootings. One person was injured but no one died. These were near misses six of them. I'm a thousand feet above malibu in a helicopter with to rewrite a retired sergeant detective from loss till station. That's a small outpost of the los angeles sheriff's department and it covers law enforcement for this whole area beautiful area wild area which rugged terrain shut your beautiful out there point. Do we had inland over the mountains. Following malibu canyon road the suit belvieu. Kanye gorman hera the the highway goes along the danube and there's malibu creek state park it's wild and pristine volcanic rocks oak savannahs undulating grasslands. If you remember the opening sequence to the nineteen seventies tv show mash the helicopter flies past craggy green peaks. Fats malibu creek state park but starting to rewrite. See something different. He sees the killing zone. I'm thinking mind one just to keep it simple. We might start with the Shootings and then moved to the burglaries and then moved to capture. Is that sound okay. Sounds like a great sequence below us is a picnic spot. Tapioca park at the edge of malibu creek state park. That's where in november two thousand and sixteen. A backpacker named jimmie rodgers was shot hurt but not killed while sleeping in a hammock slung between two trees. Near-miss number one over here in the in the park down in the campground there is where the next two inch occurred less than a week later and about a mile away in the camp ground. Where debt was later killed. A man was shot at while inside his camper. Near-miss number two two months later in january. Two thousand seventeen. There was another shooting in the same camp ground. This time at a couple sleeping in their car here was number three shootings then in the summer of two thousand seventeen. The targets seemed to change to moving cars driving along the canyon road in the span of a few weeks. I a white porsche and the white bmw were hit with gunfire near misses. Four and five sergeant wright's theory is that a shooter lay in wait. Firing approaching cars elevated positioned immediate cover. An an immediate escape direction. The shootings in the park and on the canyon road were totally bizarre. Events rhymes with no reason. They all happened at the same time around three four. Am each one involved a single shot but after near miss number five things went quiet. Eleven months passed without another shooting until june. Eighteenth two thousand eighteen early that morning around four. Am in the same area. A tesla a white one was hit in the hood near miss number six and four days after the tesla was shot. trista was killed in the campground. When you got the call that there had been a shooting at the campground. It wasn't out of the blue for you. I'm just putting myself in your shoes and thinking he must have had a sinking feeling because there had been a series of incidents leading up to that moment. Yeah that's that that is true And greatest fear that This was a serial shooter and that Eventually he would hit somebody and or kill them. So sergeant right is saying that privately law enforcement worried. There was a potential serial killer at large. They thought he was looking for victims. And that malibu creek state park and the canyon road or his hunting ground in the weeks after bonet was killed all through that summer of two thousand eighteen. I kept hearing that. Everyone in malibu was panicking. The situation seemed out of control. There was a murderer at large and residents kept calling nine. One one reporting the sounds of gunfire in the night tristan. Dat was dead. Who would be next -mergency yes. I just woke up to a gun. Shot outside you certain one gunshot so far I just heard another one way from townhall. Yeah there was a third one despite the panic. The sheriff's department was insisting that things were under control. They kept putting out press releases saying that. The crimes were isolated and unrelated quote homicide. Detectives are advising at this time. There is no evidence to the past shootings or related to the june twenty second two thousand eighteen homicide unquote. There was no press conference and the park remained open. Neighbors didn't think the authorities were taking their concerns seriously. Did anyone even want to solve these crimes. Finally august state senator henry stern called the public safety meeting the first since all this started. We're here today because Many of you including myself have serious concerns. That senator stern we need to take our land back and we can't see these mountains danny kind of violence or fear. We don't want to be known in this region for these kinds of incidents we don't want to be defined by this and we certainly don't wanna live in fear. He asks a detective named lieutenant. James royal to speak on behalf of tell station. good afternoon Can you hear me. okay. He's been the community liaison to malibu for years. People trust tab or primary objective today is to share with you as much information as possible without jeopardising our case. What i'd like to do first is discussed. The exact dates of the actual shooting events confirmed shooting events that we've been dealing with since november third of twenty sixteen and culminating on june twenty second of twenty eighteen. The tragic death of mr bodak. He states the department's official position events that have detectives have an established a connection between any of the near misses and the murder and the newly reported shots may or may not be related to the near misses the murder or to each other. I really want to reassure you that we this investigation did not start on june twenty second however we still cannot confirm that the series of events are related forensically. It just seems crazy. A specific area of the park in the canyon road being targeted repeatedly people keep hearing shots but law enforcement saying isn't calming anybody down. It doesn't even seem true. I just wanna thank everyone who came out the community especially to take what was going on in malibu. Was there a potential serial killer on the loose. I would cops be hiding it. How to malibu turn into the killing zone i mean. How does any of this happen. This is ben again. Lost hills is a story with so many twists and turns. You're not going to believe it. Lost hills is going to be your new favourite podcast. Go subscribe right now. Search up hills and whatever app. You're listening to me and right now be one of the first hear it give it a rate in review. Tell all your friends about it. Go subscribe to lost hills thanks bye.

malibu creek state park Lost hills Malibu creek state park malibu dana goodyear tristen sheriff's department tristan baudat los angeles sheriff's departme Kanye gorman Tapioca park tesla jimmie rodgers bonet california trista senator henry stern bmw wright
Presenting: Lost Hills

Revisionist History

14:25 min | Last month

Presenting: Lost Hills

"Pushkin hello hello revisionist history listeners. I'm stopping by for a couple of reasons. First the bomber mafia the bomber mafia is my new audio book. Coming out from wait. You guessed it pushkin industries. Unable twenty-seventh in it i explore. How new technology airpower upended the nature of modern warfare. This is not your standard audiobook. you'll hear the agony of military leaders in their own voices. You'll hear the sounds of bombers in bombs isn't immersive experience and i can't wait for you to hear it and we're having a special pre sale for vicious history listeners. Through april ninth. You can get the bomber mafia for just nine ninety nine only at bomber mafia dot com that's bomber mafia. One word dot com. This won't be available everywhere. Audio books are sold so once again. I'll give you the magic address. Bomber mafia dot com. Next up. Something for your ears while you wait for the audiobook to drop. Its lost hills. Las hills is a new pushkin show hosted by new yorker staff writer dana. Goodyear dana is a brilliant reporter. Who in two thousand eighteen started investigating the case of a father shot in the head while camping with his young daughters in malibu creek state park. She's been tracking it since the drifter accused of committing the murder. The cops who may have something to hide and the dark truth behind malibu's shimmering facade. I am thrilled to welcome dana to the kingdom of audio storytelling and to the pushkin fold. Here's a taste of the first episode. Oh here's what. I know when i started all this. It's not a lot. It was before sunrise. June twenty second two thousand eighteen and the campground at malibu creek state park was packed. It's an idyllic spot. Campsites are arranged in a ring around. A large meadow dotted with oak trees jagged peaks zigzag across the open sky. It was in the morning still doc. Everyone was inside their nylon tencent. Rv's cozy in their sleeping bags for a couple more hours but someone was awake watching silent undetected slipping shadow like around the sleeping campground. He had a gun and fired directly into one family's tent inside. The tent was a man named tristan. Baudat a brilliant young research scientists thirty five years old. He was sleeping beside his two little girls. The bullet struck his forehead killing him. And whoever did it slipped away into the darkness It's a story. That's meant to terrify you playing on your deepest fears a store you tell around a campfire with ghosts and murderers and things. You can't explain except that this story is true and once i heard it i couldn't stop thinking about it. How did this happen. How does anything like this happen in malibu of all places but it did happen in malibu and as it come to find out inexplicable nightmarish. Things happen in malibu all the time tonight. A mystery in malibu driver found a bad dead in a ditch along loss vs canyon road. There've also been nine additional calls for shots fired. I just don't feel safe anymore. working now. a homicide investigation. We do have a nude body and it's still unclear exactly how it got here. It is a suspicious death. The bones were just a half mile from the trail head. Possibly somebody screaming for detectives tonight trying to figure out who he is and who killed him. I'll tell you what they'll be standing with pitchforks outside lost so sheriff's department hollered. Are you all right. Said i'm just resting or something like that. Once she left she just disappeared. after tristan. bo deaths death. It came out that there had been a series of crimes that were kept hidden from the public. People were being targeted in and around. Malibu creek state park bo. Debt was not the first victim for two years before the brutal murder. There was a series of shootings. One person was injured but no one died. These were near misses six of them. A thousand feet above malibu in a helicopter with to write a retired sergeant detective from loss till station. That's a small outpost of the los angeles sheriff's department and it covers law enforcement for this whole area beautiful area joe wild area which rugged terrain shelter attributable out there point. We head inland over the mountains. Following malibu canyon road the kanye going inherit. The highway goes along the kanye. And there's malibu creek state park it's wild and pristine volcanic rocks oak savannahs undulating grasslands. If you remember the opening sequence to the nineteen seventies tv show mash for the helicopter flies past craggy green peaks. Fats malibu creek state park but starting to write. See something different. He sees the killing zone. Vanowen i'm thinking he might want to keep it up. We might start with the Shooting and then moved to the burglaries and then moved into capture. A great sequence below is a picnic spot. Tapioca park at the edge of malibu creek state park. That's where in november two thousand sixteen. A backpacker named jimmie rodgers was shot hurt but not killed while sleeping in a hammock slung between trees near miss number one over here in the in the park down in the campground. there is where The next two incidents occurred less than a week later about a mile away in the campground whereby debt was later killed. A man was shot at while inside his camper. Near-miss number two two months later in january. Two thousand seventeen. There was another shooting in the same camp ground. This time at a couple sleeping in their car near miss number three the highway shoot inch then. In the summer of two thousand seventeen the target seemed to change to moving cars driving along the canyon road in the span of a few weeks. I a white porsche and the white bmw were hit with gunfire near misses. Four and five sergeant wright's theory is that a shooter lay in wait firing approaching cars elevated position where you haven't media cover in an immediate escape direction. The shootings in the park and on the canyon road were totally bizarre. Events rhymes with no reason. They all happened at the same time around three four. Am each one involved a single. But after near-miss member five things went quiet. Eleven months passed without another shooting until june. Eighteenth two thousand eighteen early that morning around four. Am in the same area. A tesla a white one was hit in the hood. Near-miss number six and four days. After the tesla was shot tristen bodak was killed in the campground. When you got the call that there had been a shooting at the campground. It wasn't out of the blue for you. I'm just putting myself in your shoes and thinking you must have had a sinking feeling because there had been a series of incidents leading up to that moment. Yeah that's that is true And shark greatest fear that This was a serial shooter and that Eventually he would hit somebody or kill them. So sergeant right is saying that privately law enforcement worried. There was a potential serial killer at large They thought he was looking for victims. And that malibu creek state park and the canyon road or his hunting ground in the weeks after that was killed all through that summer of two thousand eighteen. I kept hearing that. Everyone in malibu was panicking. The situation seemed out of control. There was a murderer at large and residents kept calling nine one one reporting the sounds of gunfire in the night. Tristan dot was dead. Who would be next one. What's your emergency jeff. I just woke up to a gunshot outside one gunshot I just heard another one down. Paint home don't hang up. There was a third one despite the panic. The sheriff's department was insisting that things were under control. They kept putting out press releases saying that. The crimes were isolated and unrelated quote homicide. Detectives are advising at this time. There is no evidence to suggest. The past shootings are related to the june. Twenty second two thousand eighteen homicide unquote. There was no press conference and the park remained open. Neighbors didn't think the authorities were taking their concerns seriously. Did anyone even want to solve these crimes. Finally in august state. Senator henry stern called public safety meeting the first since all this started. We're here today because many of you including myself have serious concerns that senator stern we need to take our land back and we can't see these mountains danny kind of violence or fear. We don't want to be known in this region for these kinds of incidents we don't want to be defined by this and we certainly don't wanna live in fear did you. He asks a detective named lieutenant. James royal to speak on behalf of tells station good afternoon. Can you hear me okay. He's been the community liaison to malibu for years. People trust him or primary objective. Today is to share with you as much information as possible without jeopardising. Our case would like to do first is discussed. The exact dates of the shooting events confirmed shooting events. We've been dealing with. Since november third of two thousand sixteen and culminating on june twenty second of twenty eighteen with the tragic death of mr baudat. He states the department's official position. Detectives haven't established a connection between any of the near misses the murder and the newly reported shots may or may not be related to the near misses the murder or to each other. I really want to reassure you that we this investigation did not start on june twenty second however we cannot confirm that the series of events are related forensically. It just seems crazy. A specific area of the park in the canyon road are being targeted. Repeatedly people keep hearing shots but law enforcement saying isn't calming anybody down. It doesn't even seem true. I just wanna thank everyone who came out from the community especially what was going on in malibu. Was there a potential serial killer on the loose. I would the cops be hiding it. How did malibu trax into the killing zone intrigued. You can hear the rest of this episode by searching for lost hills. Wherever you're listening right now see you soon.

malibu creek state park malibu Las hills Goodyear dana dana Malibu creek state park los angeles sheriff's departme Vanowen Tapioca park new yorker tristen bodak tesla jimmie rodgers tristan bo Senator henry stern bmw wright James royal Tristan
Little News Ears - BoxerBlu and Bram and a Quiz - S1E53

Little News Ears

09:48 min | 1 year ago

Little News Ears - BoxerBlu and Bram and a Quiz - S1E53

"He, he. You four I am names, Brim. Jake Brims, Dad, but some people call me bucks brew. Here's the news. Today's March Fourteenth Two thousand twenty. It is a Saturday, and today is International Day of Mathematics Oh I love mathematics. So cool, it's like one plus two is. What does it again hits three dad least? Yes. One of my favorite books to read to a debris is the boy of math. The improbable life of Paul Erdos. Check it out. That guy was little. He loved Methuselah okay. Guys, so the first thing you know a lot of you. Already home So. Our president trump, he has declared a state of emergency so. If I were you I would just gotTa chill out. Then you know what I mean. So basically because of the corona virus. That's a sickness. That's going around. We're all trying to stay indoors. You know not go outside, so if you are for example not going to school. This is a great time to do some crafts for mom and Dad. The IF MOM and dad like don't have to work from home to write Geez that sounds like it's a big pain. Yes anyway. The the point is that we should all dig it easy and. Try to try to spend some time together. So. This is really weird What do you think that sunspots have to do? With Wales a sunspots Mula those little like black spots. On the sun I think Galileo, he burned his eyes out. About that, but yes, what do you think? Oh, I have no idea well. They've done a study. It's pretty interesting I'm basically they think scientists think that. Because whales especially on California gray wheels. They have met magnetic sense. There are solar storms right which costs all these like particles energies come out of the sun and the sunspots. Actually that's one of the reasons why wheels become beached. Oh! What the. that. That's the greatest thing ever my life. Yes, so I'm. Jessy Greene Juror he's. A graduate student at Duke University. He's doing a study. We looked at a lot of different Wales. You're over the past thirty one years one, hundred, eighty, six Wales or something like that, and he doesn't think it's because of magnetism. Hall of the Radio Waves, get disrupted by the Sun. What do you mean exactly Brown radio? No radio is right. Some of our listeners may not want to radio us. Oh, so mom and dad probably have a radio in the car. His where music comes from and talk. Radio Rush Limbaugh people like that. Yes there so when the solar storms happened. The radio signals that are all in space earth's atmosphere anyway. They get a little bit crazy. So that might be the reason why the whales that are you know the ones? They studied work the ten thousand miles on the coast of California. Getting beached oh my gosh to do. So. I WANNA. Talk About Swim Run love. Swim runs swim. You swim run is. You know what really don't, but it's really cool. Word it words combined. So, sweet run this competition they do in Sweden AIDS really kind of weird to be honest, but it's it's Kinda cool basically? Cross island, and then you jump in the water? You swim to the other. And then you go the next one. You do it in teams, so you're on your tethered third. Ropes each other. Yeah, he had these things. Pull buoy to keep you up. When were floating? Hand paddles. so anyway. The news is that is coming to America Oh. Wow with the corona virus. About that, but it's happening Catalina we're GONNA leave. California not too far. ooh! Jewish so Bram, aren't they something? We don't do enough as a family too late to change the world. Like what we do is. Well I. WanNa tell you something this one lady did. Her name is Alena Lehman and what she did, she discovered that. There were all these rats in this park? It's got Verdi Square in New York City the upper west side, and over over time people circling Vermin Square. Oh, Vermin, then name vermin his leg. Rats and mice and insects and stuff like that. That's gross so basically. There was a problem and she took action she she got some friends and some volunteers and they cleaned up the park, and so now the rats are pretty much gone. Is a neural parking go to? We should all do stuff like that. I totally agree Jewish. Love Disneyland. Disneyworld live on these places. Yes, as you've probably learned now, Bram, in Russia you can go to a place just like that his it fresh. Disney! No, not at all, but yes, what so basically I'm in Russia. They had this park near Moscow. It's dream island and I don't know. 'cause like one point, five billion dollars or something like that. They've tried to make it for a long long time, but disagreeing about things. Yes, so for example they thought about having tolstoy. Tolstoy hear you mean the writer, yes. Somebody eventually said you know what kids probably don't WanNa like a rollercoaster tolstoy. He and the other thing is that. It gets calling in Moscow. Whole thing is covered in. Oh. Wow, that's really really cool. Yes, it does. Can we watch our show again? Is Your show now mice oh? Yes, Oh, I. If you haven't heard of Ken Burns Country Music. Is it really documentary learning about Jimmie Rodgers, Hank Williams and Everybody else. You got. Pretty okay. Everybody if you still have a playground to go to go to it now by bye. Do you want this week's news. Good a little news. EARS DOT COM. Don't forget to check out our videos on Youtube Dot, com and our teacher lesson plans and more on little news years dot. com me your sweetness shot and your colors globe. Sources for today's broadcast includes CNN USA Today and the New, York Times. You know there's something about cave. Water just tastes a little bit better than regular water I. Don't know if you've ever noticed that. My name is owners, or you can call me the Loris and you know I'm here in. Cave and point and I'm here to give me a couple of glasses. Nine about right so today's March fourteenth, two thousand twenty and zoo saney. It's one sixty, six, sixty eight. Quiz begins now. Do, you ever wonder where that some of music comes from. Pools. Okay question number one. What is the name of the organization that will help? People hurt by the corona virus. Is it a Mesa. Is it be famer? Is it see SAMA? Be Fema, though as at famous for some strange reason, question number two. What is one possible reason why sons bots might make? Wales become stranded, is it a Wales use a magnetic sense to swim and the sunspots Beck? Is it be whales like spots and follow them? Is it see sunspots through long then ropes on the whales fins. Answer is a Wales use a magnetic sense to swim and the sons bought Somehow Affect Question three swim run is famous. It's from Sweden which island will take place on in the US. Is, it a Angel Island. Is it be Catalina Island, or is it? See Channel Islands? The answer is B. Catalina Island. It's beautiful island nearby Angeles. Question Number Four. What did Elena Lehman want to fix up in New York City Was it a the homeless problem in parks. Was it be the rat problem in apart? Was it see the parking lot situation? And the answer is. B The rat problem in. Question, five, what is one reason why dream island took so long to be made a? It's so cold and Russia. Everything's got to be inside. Is it be Russia is a communist country? Is it's? Disney wanted to be involved the best answer there is a it's so cold Russia. Everything's got to be inside speaking of gold by Gum. It's quite cold here, goodbye.

Wales Russia California New York City Bram Paul Erdos Sweden Cross island Catalina Island B. Catalina Island Jake Brims Moscow Jessy Greene tolstoy dream island president Angel Island sickness trump Disney
Bonus Episode - Eric Paul Johnson

Next Stop Everywhere: The Doctor Who Podcast

13:52 min | 1 year ago

Bonus Episode - Eric Paul Johnson

"Hello next up everywhere. Listeners this is one of your co host Jesse Jackson as you hear US talk about. I do another podcast. So hauled set listening Bruce. I hope some of you check it out every once in a while but just in case you. Don't I had a guest recently. Eric Johnson who hosts a face the music and e Alot podcast and we spent about Seven or eight minutes at the start of the podcast talking. Dr Dr Who and so I thought as a little bonus episode I would Include that talk here on the next stop everywhere feed So this is a bonus episode will be back in our normal feed with a regular episode. Where Charles and his guests companions and I talk doc all things who but enjoy this little talk in xtop stop? mm-hmm hello everyone and welcome to a new episode is set listening Bruce Your podcast. All about Bruce springsteen his his music and mostly is fans but today we are getting off the Bruce springsteen train and we are getting on The spaceship maybe. Tonight we are Talking Electric Light Orchestra with my new friend. Eric Johnson Eric. Welcome to the show. Thank you I'm happy to be here. Yeah so Eric in I've exchanged a few texts of the facebook and he mentioned how much he loved the alot and Jeff Lynne and do that. That sounds like something I'd love to talk about but before we do tell us what about yourself give us your elevator speech Usually my elevator speech is just standing quietly in the back waiting for other people to get off the elevator so I can have it to myself again but A my history would be Cartoonist writer musician Russian podcasters just a a frequent renaissance man. I Guess Ace yeah Well go ahead. Sorry Continue Yeah legos doctor. Who Oh I noticed you know just as much door because I am? I saw that seventeen. O One is in your your skype or your name here. And it's like registry number of the enterprise of course yes so Yeah I have a lot of Geek. Interests also Pretty creative creative guy You know it's a more creative genius. Kanye West I guess maybe less maybe less smug about it. Then he is very nice his favorite doctor I'm from the original set. Dr Tom he just right from the start it was like oh I like him and I've seen or heard every single episode of doctor who from the very first one in sixty three until well I haven't seen lady who yet still waiting for those episodes to be free on Amazon Prime I also like Patrick Troughton I didn't think there was enough of of him in in his episodes should more trout and as for new I love David. It kills me every single time that I see him leave and he did it twice yes And just use when he says. I don't want to go and it's like I I don't want you to go either. Yes and Dr Matt would be a close second. Yeah I I I came to through. Torchwood did not which is a little unique but I was Someone in a A firefly fly. podcast actually mentioned that they had a theory that Malcolm Reynolds was actually captain. Jack that You know because of the long coat can you know the thing. And who's this Captain Jack Ni- in my one of my best friends who had been trying to get me to watch doctor who Ken said well. You know here. It's from torchwood. And so he watched it in so I watched the first couple of seasons at Torchwood and I said man I really liked this Captain Jack Guy it. Could you give me the episodes. He's been on doctor. Who in Can said? It's just easier to give you two here. Here's the here's the disc discs so I started with ECCLESTON. Burn through it you know and then Matt Smith was I. I kind of watched live I think. DVD and so Attendant is my doctor too though I think like all true fans the nuances. onces of each doctor is unique. Each of them bring something special and I was not a big ECCLESTON fan but as we go back Jack Charlton I on next stop everywhere. The doctor who podcast I help Charles host we re washed ECCLESTON 's episodes. I've gotten in more kind of in love with him as the doctor and I now wish we could have had another season or two with him in that role. Yeah and I wish he was is in the the doctors that was that the time of the Doctor The fiftieth anniversary special. I think I would have loved to seen him do that. Yes even though we got what you know You know we got the doctor and that was amazing but yes it would have been very cool to see him But yeah go ahead. I'm well Oh yes I know what you mean about Eccleston because I went through a capacity as he was you know as his episodes were coming on and that was just kind of he's not as whimsical as David and Matt which is I like whimsical doctors. But now that we've I've I've been getting my wife is. She came in one time while I was watching Dr Matt Episode. Who says like oh I like him and so we started watching the new who is from start to end and we just got into started? compal these rewatching those episodes and we're a few episodes in it's like actually capacity is not as bad as I remember. We're actually ty like him and the funny thing about Dr. Who At least for me is? I hated the show. I'm I only knew new of it in in the eighties when I found out about it so I had the bad special effects in the cheesy acting and and the synthesizer music music that was supposed to be you know background music. And there's just this is stupid because I came of age during Star Wars and batter star Galactica and star trek movies so I was used used to freaking awesome special effects big orchestras and then doctor who was using a flashlight. Or you know or or toy- laser as our gun that is obviously a toy laser gun. Yeah so I just I hated it and I was staying with a friend and San Francisco and her fiance love doctor. Who so but she at work taped the episodes while watching them my last day in San Francisco? And there's Dr who it's Dr Colin and he's going through his things and I'm rolling my eyes. This is stupid. This is so stupid. And the cliffhanger was that a giant statue of him starts to fall in Congo's hey and and credits and I'll just like instantly like that. I'm like Whoa what happens now. My friend said Oh you're just GONNA have to watch episodes. I don't know when they're on in Phoenix. I God knows what Dr There at at the time I what happens happens you have to find out so it was just like instantly. I was like I love doctor who now I got to watch all these episodes and it took a twenty twenty five years before I finally saw that episode. And what happened afterwards. Okay Wonderful Story. You know what. I love Mark Way the comic book writer known for Flash and so many other stories He was on a podcast that he was talking about that growing up. That doctor who fans were the fans that the Star Trek fans made fun of you know he says I was. Yeah legit Fan. I was a star Trek Fan and we made fun of those guys. The scillies are and all this stuff. He says an and I always had this disdain. He he said and then the new who started and you see ECCLESTON and he goes run and all of a sudden he went wait a minute and he said I was captivated from that word. Nieces now gone back and And I tell people that In fact we just talked about this to get us to music. My wife was watching the Ken Burns Country Music Special. She and I both watching and she was. You know she was listening to Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter family. And she's like you know I don't want to say this out loud but I don't think they're that good and I said you know what I talk a lot about. When when I I watch classic who I had had the exact same feeling you did eric of going? It's just cheesy and moves to see. Oh I said but then now that we've gone back and for the podcast. We'll watch an episode and I I quote unquote half to watch it so I can talk about it near your ear in your eye becomes similar. As I mixed force your palate acquires a taste for for wine. Nine or whiskey or you know eating your steak rare instead of you know whatever right and losing WANNA use and I said I. I think it's the same thing for this music Linda because you're used to a modern sound it. It's going to take awhile and and I think in to the episode. She's like okay. I liked that Carter Song and she says I do. Think you've got a point that you're you you have to shift a gear in and you're listening center or you're watching center sometimes to appreciate something classic and Yeah Yeah. Yeah we'll bluest started showing the classic Doctor Who's in one time we're eating supper and I headed on the TV and it was a doctor. Tom Episode I think it was one of the really early ones And me and her were just like I said wow. I forgot how slow these episodes moved but I liked. I liked. How how? Tom Played the doctor. That was really the the thing that really kept me there because if it was anybody else was just too stiff. Boring the actor playing a you know science guy who's curious. I don't think it would be as fun. There is something I do about new. Yeah I miss the eccentric dressing. I love the longest I liked. I really liked Collins technicolor outfit. Thought that was pretty cool so I missed that but you know doctor but you know David Madden and the others the characters they bring to it is he's just And they're so good. Yeah and I think that you're spot on Often when I'm watching classic who do You know it'll be six Six segment you know. They'll be six chapters to the story and Will say you know you could have done three easy but every once in a while and you know there is one that just clicks all away along is like nothing at all. Yeah Well that was a nice little doctor who kind of you know detour

Dr Dr Who ECCLESTON Dr Tom Bruce springsteen Dr Matt David Madden Eric Johnson Eric Charles writer Ken Burns Eric Johnson Jesse Jackson Matt Smith Jack Charlton San Francisco Dr Colin Jack Ni Jeff Lynne Jack facebook
122Hanky Panky

How Good It Is

14:00 min | 10 months ago

122Hanky Panky

"Hello and welcome to the next episode of how good it is the show that takes a closer look at songs from the Rock and roll era. We check out some of the stories behind those songs on the artists who may Dan things my name is Claude call and some would call me a double dipper but that's mostly because I. had two scoops of mint chocolate chip this week remember to check out the website how good it is dot com and the twitter and Instagram, and of course, the facebook page, which you can find over at facebook dot com slash. How good it is pot, and if you can swing it, please consider supporting the show as a patron click the button on the website or point your browser to patriotism dot com slash how good it is for just five bucks a month you're getting the weekly newsletter pen by yours truly with the weeks music news at Dash of my opinions and the history calendar plus it's a quick five minute re not too shabby right All right I've got some family Trivia for ye today. So tell me which one of these musical family pairs doesn't belong and why we have and Nancy Wilson of Heart Jack and Meg. White from the White Stripes Noel and Liam Gallagher of a wastes and Alex and Eddie Van Halen from do van Halen. All of these pairs are related to each other but one of them doesn't match the others who is it and why I will have that answer and a little bit more at the end of the show. Let me tell you a little bit about hanky-panky because that's sort of what I do here isn't it? I up I know what you're thinking. You hear that chorus. Somebody wrote that yeah. But that's not fair. In fact, it took two people to write this one Hanky Panky was written by the songwriting dual of Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry who we last saw in episode one fourteen just a few weeks ago when we looked at the song leader of the pack but in this case, Greenwich and Barry recorded themselves as the raindrops back in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, three. Berry told Billboard magazine once that he thought Hanky Panky was pretty terrible and it was meant to be a b side. And in fact. The raindrops released it as the B side to this trap which was called. That boy John was a minor hit, but it had the misfortune of being released in November of nineteen sixty three. And when President John Kennedy was killed, the song was told from radio playlists. And that was pretty much the end of that. But as I mentioned, these was this fun little bitty. Now around the same time that the songs recorded by the raindrops, it was also recorded by another girl group called the summits. Now. The summit's versions pretty much the same as the raindrops maybe swing a little bit more not saxophone and it's a neat little false ending on it before it comes back strong for another minute minute and a half before fading out, for Real. Now I'm not sure how the timing worked out, but the summit's version came out just before the raindrops and it felt altogether to chart. Now around this time, there was a teenage boy by The name of Tommy Jackson from Niles Michigan and Tommy sneaked into a nightclub in South Bend Indiana to hear a local band called the spinners play. Now, this wasn't the same group that had those hits in the seventies small local band. And one of the songs that the spinners played was Hanky Panky, which young Tommy noted went over really big with the crowd. In fact, he was impressed enough that he wanted to record the song with his band and this wasn't Tommy Jackson's first single. This was a second. He had been with band since nineteen fifty nine when he was twelve as Tom and the tornadoes. Now sometime in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, three, he changed the name of the band to honor his favourite guitarist Troy Sean del so Tommy Jackson. talked his ban by now called the Sean. Bell's into recording the song which they did over radio station. W. N.. L. Back home. In Niles Michigan now, there are clearly a few differences between the raindrops in the summers versions and the Shaun Dell's version of the song. The raindrops version is pretty typical girl group Song. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. There was a definite sound to those songs in this one. Had IT the summits? They put a little bit more of an rb. Spin on it. The other difference is that there are a few changes in the lyrics between the raindrops and the summits and the Shaun. Dell's version. Why is that? You ask? I'm glad you asked it's because Jackson couldn't remember all the words. So he just started making them up and as far as the sound order no this was new girl group. This was pure garage. The record was released on snap records which was owned by a friend of Tommy's was a disc jockey and the Sean does recording of the song. It actually sold pretty well in the mid West in early one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, four, and then it just kind of faded away and in nineteen sixty, five, Tommy Jackson. Graduated from High School and that was pretty much for the ban all went their separate ways. But later that year a DJ in the Pittsburgh area named Mike Metro picked up the record again and started playing it on W Z, U M exclusive not. This stick of not telling listeners who the artists were to make the tough to find the records, and in fact when he would dj teen dances in the area. A lot of times you would scratch out or glue pitchers over the record label so that people wouldn't know the details as a means of keeping his records exclusively. And sometimes even tell radio listeners listening. You may never hear song again and sometimes the actually kept that promise. But the thing is one record sold a few thousand copies in the Mid West. It's not so much of an exclusive and finally another Dj in Pittsburgh starry playing his copy of the song and you next thing you know there are literally eighty thousand. Bootleg copies of the Sean Dell's hanky-panky floating around the Pittsburgh area. Now, Tommy Jackson had no idea that any of this was going on until Metro Vich cold up to let him know the single as hot and take the Sean does come play live in the Pittsburgh Area Tommy said sure what he didn't mention was that he'd been Sollac for over a year so. You went to Pittsburgh on the down low and he started hanging around the clubs and such until he found a band, he liked called the raconteurs. Offered them the job as the new Sean shondells and they accepted it, and that's when Tommy Jackson became Tommy Jeans Tommy James. Himself tells an interesting story. At this point the record is hot in Pittsburgh, which believe it or not was a bit of a taste maker city. So the record labels naturally started paying attention and they all began to line up to sign Tommy James and the Shaun does. He said he heard from Atlantic Records Columbia records epic Kamasutra and a little label called Roulette records. All of a sudden. The big record company started calling him up and sing we gotta pass. We have to take back our offer and so on. Tommy, James says, he got something like a half dozen calls in a row, just mysteriously canceling their offer everybody but roulette. So maybe it's time to do a little bit of a back story on roulette records. Roulette was founded in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, seven by four partners who were headed by a man named Morris Levy during the late fifties relent had a bunch of hits by Buddy Knox playmates Jimmie Rodgers, Ronnie Hawkins, and the delegates plus they released albums by Dinah Washington Count Basie Pearl Bailey the gave the performers, a ton of musical freedom but they were Kinda shady. With the money and it turns out that roulette records had some strong ties to organized crime and Tommy James himself has suggested in multiple venues that it was specifically a front for the GENEVIEVE's crime family. In fact, one of the partners owned four other small labels and gave all of them tha, Morris Levy to cover his gambling debts Levy then folded them all into roulette. And Morris Levy by some reports ran the label with an iron fist. Okay. Back to nineteen, sixty, five, Tommy James and the Shaun does a getting a sudden cold shoulder from all the big labels and finally he asks on what's going on and it was Jerry Wexler at Atlantic records who finally fessed up and said Morris Levy, called up the other labels and said, this is my record and he basically scared everyone away. So Tommy James and the Shaun, Dell's did indeed sign with roulette records. They also did a bunch of TV appearances and club dates and it wasn't until. After all that that the roulette forty five was released, but here's the funky part. Tommy James sold the original one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, four master to roulette records for the forty five pressing. They didn't do another recording. But by all accounts, roulette records did an amazing job promoting the single and it spent two weeks at the top of the billboard hot one, hundred in the summer of one. Thousand Nine, hundred, sixty, six, it was also top ten in most of Europe. It made it to number thirty eight in the UK and it was a number three record in South Africa. As far as covers there have been a bunch but none of them have had the same success, the teenage Tommy Jackson and his original. Sean. Dell's had most of them were pretty faithful to the Sean Dell's version. So it's Kinda pointless to play them here, but I invite you to check out the covers by Neil diamond. In. Nineteen Sixty six by Joan. Jett in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty right before she broke big and then there's this version you're listening to now a pretty good cover by seminal punk band the cramps in nineteen, eighty two. Mob. And now it's time to answer today's Trivia question back on page two I asked you about four musical family pairs and I asked you to identify the one that doesn't belong they were and and Nancy Wilson from Heart Alex Eddie Van, Halen Jack and make white from the white stripes and Noel and Liam. Gallagher from oasis. The answering this case would be Jack and Meg White. Now. It occurred to me while I was reading this out that you might have picked out Jack and Meg white because it's the only. Male. Female pair as opposed to everybody else who is either brothers and sisters but the real answer is that all the other pairs are siblings. And while Jack and Meg. White told everyone they were siblings. The truth is they were married to each other from Nineteen ninety-six until two thousand shortly before the band got famous and incidentally Jack White's original name is John Gillis, which means he took megs name how about that? And that's another full live on another edition of how good it is. If you're enjoying the show, please take the time to share it with someone and maybe even leave a rating somewhere and now forcing can support the show over at. Patriot dot com slash how good it is. If you want to get in touch with the show, you can email me at how good podcasts at Gmail Dot com or you can follow the show on twitter or instagram at how good it is. You can also visit. Like and follow the show's facebook page at facebook dot com slash how good it is pod or you can check out the show's website how good it is dot com will you might find a few extra bits? No guarantees. Thank you as usual two podcast republic for featuring the Shell and love that Pod catcher next time around we're gonNA find out how good it is. When coincidentally by listener requests you get the candy everybody wants thank you for listening. I will talk soon next time.

Tommy Jackson Tommy James Tommy Troy Sean del Pittsburgh Dell Hanky Panky facebook Halen Jack Sean Dell Morris Levy Shaun Dell Mid West twitter Liam Gallagher Nancy Wilson DJ Jack White Tommy Jackson. Noel
Three Chords And The Truth

Throughline

34:19 min | 1 year ago

Three Chords And The Truth

"Are you recording. Are we good testing one two three testing testing grinning okay. We have something special for you all today. It's it's not a typical July episode. It's a conversation with one of our favorite storytellers Ken Burns. You might have heard of him mm-hmm. He's made dozens of historical documentaries over the years about everything from the civil war to jazz to cancer to the Vietnam War and now he's back with a new documentary about about country music and I have to be honest. I don't really care about country music in fact. I don't like it. GROWING UP I associated country music with artists like Toby Keith. Who songs were you know Gresley patriotic and were hurt for someone like me but when I heard Ken Burns was making a documentary about country music I was like okay. Let's see what this is about and that my friends is what makes Ken Burns so good at what he does. He take something that you think you have zero interesting and makes it interesting which is what we try to do every week on this show so we were super excited to sit down with him and talk about his approach to storytelling storytelling why history matters and country music that conversation when we come back Hi This is NATO Mon- from East Brunswick New Jersey and you're listening through mine from NPR AW support for this podcast and the following message come from Tito's handmade vodka born and bred in Austin Texas the live music capital capital of the world music is just kind of part of our DNA says tito beverage founder and master distiller of Tito's handmade vodka for recipes videos and more visit them Ed Tito's vodka dot com eighty proof. Tito's handmade vodka fifth generation inc.. Distilled and bottled in Austin Texas crafted to be savored responsibly Oy. I can't believe that summer is basically over. I know and you know what that means. The twenty twenty presidential races only going to heat up. It's a good thing we spent all summer sitting down with the Democratic candidates for President Colo.. It is great to be with you. Thanks for having him delighted to be here for. Bush appreciate check out the NPR politics podcast feed for exclusive interviews with all the candidates on the debate stage. Subscribe Okay so naturally literally the first question we had for Ken Burns was why country music and why now people were asking me after we did our series on jazz came out in two thousand run you know would I do rock and roll and and and I I'm a child of rock and roll and are and be that was my music and yet when the country music idea came friend of mine said hey that about country music and had been mentally on some lists but it just sort of entered in my heart. It was like this whole hearted yes S. whatever it was. We're thinking about doing next together. That's disappeared and for the next eight years. We really plowed towards this. I knew some most of my granddaddy and my daddy sang me songs but I knew that it was connected to all American music that what we tend to do in everything particularly now our there seems to be as soon. Nami of inflammation breaking over us is that just out of desperation we in silo everything into its own category but when you listen to country music and you learn a little bit about it you find out from the very beginning. It was never one thing our window on land. did a big bang took place in the summer of Nineteen Twenty seven that in Bristol Tennessee when Ralph peer an entrepreneur recorded in almost succeeding sessions the Carter family and Jimmie Rodgers. We saw so you have this music growing up. That's then adding all sorts of stuff western. Swing Cowboy Music I aw rock and Bluegrass Bakersfield it sound kind of more smooth. Nashville Sound later even smooth were country Palton sign. I mean it defies category like like all the other jars documentary you explore at least in the beginning of sharing of culture even the Carter Family Family Used Basically Old Gospel Song will be unbroken the biggest country song. Maybe the most influential ever given that I know what people are going to say when he sees documentary given what happened recently with the old town road. I'm sure you're aware of it was a little not as I think what that brought up is for a lot of African Americans well. We have a history in this music too yeah that that country music is music too so it's in every episode of ours and that dynamic is there and if you made a Mount Rushmore of the top five people the Carter her family Jimmie Rodgers Hank Williams bill monroe who invented bluegrass johnny cash all of those five had an African American mentor who took their chops from here and put it way up here so that they deserved a place in the Mount Rushmore so all of a sudden you realize this is not some back forty acres of some hick thing but in fact one man of station of American music that's going to also manifest itself in the blues in Jazz in folk in rock a billy and later rock and Orrin B and soul and let's remember it's a complicated story. The two main instruments of country music the fiddle which comes from Europe and the British isles and the Banjo which comes from Africa tells you about a dynamic and so our first episode is called the Rub and normally when we think about races coming together in the American south the rubbed the friction produced is a negative one in this case while the negativity is still there all of the horrors of slavery and Jim Crow and segregation and of Minstrel there there but one of the byproducts is extraordinarily positive in which is creating a set of music jazz and Blues and country that is America's music but you know something you mentioned that I love to dig into a little more is as the tension at the beginning of country music that produce something great yes but also complicated as you you mentioned these mount rushmore sort of figures of country music all were inspired borrowed from African American music and culture. Can you talk a little bit about that sort of tension how informed the rise of country music. I think that tension is sort of present almost everywhere in American life in every subject we've done on and I think no more so than here and that's where creativity takes place not in these sort of perfect moments but in in just the complication of life if I don't see this in terms of appropriation because of course African Americans are listening and borrowing from what you see are people who are huge you for rioting of mixtures. Eh Mama I'm going on. There is a a sadness to me that we don't know Gus Cannon Johnny Cash's mentor as well as we know johnny cash as johnny cash's fault Johnny cash would to the end of his dying day would tell you the significance of gus cannon to who he was and the kind of person he began same with Elvis. There's lots of argument about Elvis but elms knew where worried came from US listening to country music. He was listening to Gospel Black and white his listening to the blues he was listening to everything and he reflected and that's who we are will you can't celebrate a melting pot on the other side and then say it's not good to melt. You know there's presumptions in commerce commerce that people are only listening to this music that are white or that. They're only listening to R&B that are black and this just isn't the case you must means that would know when Ray Charles had a chance to have creative control over an album for the first time and released modern sounds in country and western music and the great hit it was. I can't stop loving you. I mean just a phenomenal crossover in the other way that you would imagine you know. The culture is going to resist that to culture often will default to the lowest common denominator us against them and what I think art reminds us is that you can neutralize the conflict was something that sees a little bit bigger than that and good art always does you're. GonNa meet Deep Ford Bailey L. E. WHO's a harmonica player and early. African American member of the Grand Ole opry of WHO's unceremoniously kicked out at a momentous or resurgent Jim Crow and and for excuses brought back you have Charley Pride. You have ray Charles doing this spectacular thing and throughout our films rhiannon Giddens who's an African an American woman who is one of the great most driving country sound you'll ever hear and tearing the cover off almost every song song. She attempts to say you. You watched her a few weeks ago at the Reimann Auditorium home for decades of the Randall opera sing antique coins crazy and bring three thousand people to their feet in thunderous applause so it's there right in front of us. The recipe is there. I mean is that what drew you to it at the beginning I mean it seems like this is a learning process as responding eight eight years on it. Is this something you at the outset that there was this deep intricate American story at the heart of country music. You know it's so easy to back and fill in light. He who you know I'm looking in all these things for subjects that reflect us back to us and I don't WanNa do stuff that I know about out and what's so great about country is that it's elemental three chords and the truth the Songwriter Harlan Howard said and that means it it doesn't have the elegance and sophistication of say classical music or even jazz what it has a really clear lyrics and very simple music that that is telling you elemental things about human life the joy of birth the sadness at death falling in love trying to stay in love falling out of love being lonely seeking redemption. There's nobody within the sound of my voice that hasn't experienced at least one if not two if not all of those things and what we found as we are working on the film is are developing sense that we were sitting on kind of a volcano of emotional power and people would come in and they would be you know. I love country music but I had no idea that it was this or I'm not really sure. I don't like country music once you get rid of the deadwood and get the brush out. This is an extraordinary set of tunes that the series is introducing to and for those that I don't like country music. They suddenly realize how can the superficial and blind that might be that good. Music is good music. Wherever it is is their badge as yes. Is there bad blues yes. Is there bad rock. Oh my God you know so so is there bad country of course but if you can tell the kind of story multigenerational huge Russia novel of a story worry that we told across eight episodes and sixteen and a half hours you have a chance to see this. American family story that added heart is as American Dan. You don't one of the things that struck me in film was the number of women who plead read such a big role in the development of country music. This is a surprisingly feminist film from the very beginning Sarah Carter and and mother May Bell Carter are two super strong women and there followed by rose maddox too bad bad it wasn't God made honky dog gain in the words to songs and Kitty Wells Patsy cline of course all do lo around lynn so in the Mid Sixties Loretta Lynn is dealing with themes that nobody in folk has touched. Nobody in Iraq Dodge you then then making your brags around town. I love with love on your mind or any of the you're not woman in enough to take my man so what you have is this kind of surprisingly pro feminist film when that tune comes out don't come home. Drinking is the year that women's liberation and is used and and the red is not going to use that term. She's not joining any movement and neither are fans but they are imbibing of these fundamental dole human aspirations where you thought I'd be when you came home. You've been out with all album at stop and talk about unspoken thing which is rock and roll every single one of the Beatles. Their initial impulse was country. You know a quarter of of the songs that the Beatles gave Ringo to sing were or country country songs in the big star out of the and a in in fact his first big one naturally is a Bucko and tune which suddenly revitalize made Buck Owens cool when Bob Dylan Ellen fell after these just ECOMOG albums like free real and Bob Dylan highway sixty one Ribas. Where does he do rolling and he goes to Nashville and he does blonde on Blonde John Wesley Harding and Nashville Skyline? He's using the Nashville session musician the A team. They were called to get the best sound out the country music station `this but there's nothing nothing nothing to turn you. Just tell me what's not country about the band in or about the birds after having explored psychedelic they are going in to Nashville to record an album sweetheart of the Rodeo. I mean you have a Honky tonk woman by the rolling stones. You know if you'RE GONNA put up barriers then you forgotten that everything's on a kind of continuum and I would suggest because of the Carter family's will the circle be unbroken that is not a linear one. It's it comes around. It's it's full circle how exactly view boil down the twentieth century into a Sixteen Hour Documentary Ken Burns tells us when we come back from Washington and you're listening to NPR her support for through line and the following message come from American Express. You've got big ideas for your business but figuring out how to make them happened can be a real challenge well. The answer may be as simple as American Express financing solutions. They have over four thousand specialists who can help find the right solution for your business. Chat with them today to see if you're eligible so you can get your plants up and running the powerful backing of American. Express don't do business without what it terms apply learn more at American Express. Dot Com slash business is back with a brand new season of stories from all over Latin America and across the US kick things off with a voice that some of you may have heard me talking to excite the the resin fall of one of Latin America's most famous Mus voiceover artists and the industry that crumbled around him from NPR listen and subscribe now all right so oh after talking about country music for a while the conversation moved to music and Ken Burns films more generally and Ramtane who as you probably know scores through line had a lot of questions questions I would ask about music because I've seen all of your movies and I think they'll be look civil war and the way music was used and then the at Phnom where's your decision making from film to film about how you use music how much music us because in Vietnam I thought Trent Reznor. Atticus Russ's score was incredible unbelievable so the what was the decision to get them involved in that and so much different so actually league the music is always the same for us even when in the two films that it's been about music jazz and country music it's not just background but it sort of middle ground and foreground and sometimes kind of hyperspace as your guest writing a piece of music. We recorder music before we begin editing. We have most of our music in place most those people at the exact opposite it scored which is a mathematical term and they're sitting there to the picture and they wanna hit this at this. We never do that will cut the picture to the music music because such a powerful forum and we might shorten a sentence in order to fit of raise a music or lengthen it just to fit a phrase music or just shut up for a second. It's hard for us to do 'cause we have written films to and we celebrate that they're very we don't think image in the word are at odds and music is the great reconciler of that so we're recording our music we in in the civil war. I just sat with a person who played a piano. All of these hymns always popular music of the day all this military stuff and I picked maybe forty tunes and we went into the studio and recorded each of those tunes forty different ways and so we'd have all of these choices going in so each subject requires that you want to have the contemporary music. That's no different than Vietnam so Lynn Novick my co-director on Vietnam was watching the social network and she went credit music is unbelievable and came back and said we should get them and it was like yes what a great idea so we went to Trenton Atticus and they said yes we'd. I love to do that and they said to us. They never let us in on the process that this was one of the most satisfying creative things they'd had working on the stuff and delivered us three hours hours of material that is mind-boggling we went to Yo Yo Ma and the Silk Road Ensemble and they took Vietnamese tunes and lullabies and folks at any one north north-and-south would know and bent them in their unique and completely original fashion and then we go out and we collect one hundred twenty pieces of music and the first thing we it is we went to the Beatles and said we can't afford this. We need you to help us and they said fine and then we went to Bob Dylan. He's fine and then we just walked our way. Through the rest of the hundred twenty visas we would have been able to afford twelve had they not said look. We understand what you're going to do and we we promise never to play a piece of music. That wasn't out that is the say you couldn't hear here at on Armed Forces radio or you couldn't hear it in your transistor radio on your car radio on the way to a demonstration against the war and that we'd use it honorably and that has to do with the fact that for US music is central. It's not like the afterthought. It's not the icing that you hope is going to amplify emotions and you hope you hope are there but in fact baked into the process from the beginning music is so powerful immune all we're talking about. Today is music and that's power. That's the power power of history right. I think one of the things that on our show we try to do is use history a better understand the world. We live in today. This is exactly the power of history and this is why ah I'm there because we like to say that were condemned to repeat what we don't remember. It just doesn't happen. Human Nature never changes. The ECCLESIASTES says what has been will be again. What has been done will be done again. There's nothing new under the Sun. That suggests that human nature doesn't change in so when we think history repeats itself itself. We're only looking at these habits. You know these cycles these motifs these themes constantly recur and that gives who's the possibility in history to be our best teacher. Mark Twain said history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes and I can't tell you there hasn't been a single film. It's almost forty uh-huh. I think some an hour in length from eighteen hours were haven't finished the film and looked up and good my God. It's about the present moment and I can't convince anybody that this film was essentially editorially locked before the metoo movement because you would swear to God in every episode road. We're like Oh. There's a nice little reference to me and I never put in any reference to the president and any of the films it's just that everything rhymes but the great tyranny the great arrogance of the present is that we somehow think that because we're alive and they're not that that we know more than them and we do not we experience everything the way they did and there were conversations ten thousand years ago that that were as complex as I hope this is when we come back more on the art of storytelling from Ken Burns Hi this is enough and Frederick and you're listening caroline from NPR support for this podcast and the following message come from Delta Delta Flyers two three hundred cities ladies around the world. That's three hundred cities where people in those three hundred cities think they're the only ones who know about that one place and three hundred cities where people bill miss someone in one of Delta's other two hundred ninety nine cities. Delta is in flying at three hundred cities merely to bring people together but to show that we're not that far far apart in the first place. Delta keep climbing. I mean I'm starting to get a sense of sort of your approach to telling History Rian all these stories because it seems like with all of your documentaries. You're bringing together things. It's just it's way more complicated than you go in. Maybe thinking it says you know it's funny. I think I've grown as a filmmaker but my very first film for Public Broadcasting is one call Brooklyn Bridge and I I was raising money. Elect about twelve years old and everybody was turning me down. Ha Ha this kid strengths only the Brooklyn Bridge nope and I used to have binders filled with the rejection letters just to remind remind me of how complicated is particularly in public broadcasting to get anything done but I was writing a letter and I added added that I that I was uninterested in excavating dry dates and facts and events of history that I was interested in an emotional archaeology agey. I wrote that in like seventy seven when I was trying to raise money or seventy eight and I don't know of any better way to put it than that that if we want to use news history as a weapon then you're only speaking to the choir young speaking to the converted. You can't possibly change minds. The novelist Richard Powers said that the best arguments in the world won't change a single person's mind. The only thing that can do that that is a good story and a good story. I think we'd all agree is the one that has that complication. One that has that undertow when that has a thing in the opposite visit of thing being true at the same time and our ability to tell each other stories and to remind us that we are obligated as human beings not not as Democrats or Republicans are white people or black people or gay or straight people are male or female people or West Coast people are east coast pibor north be poor south depot but as people is that we're going to have to negotiate these things for ourselves first and to reconcile the seemingly irreconcilable opposites and when you have the possibility to do that and art and storytelling are all part of the infrastructure of helping us get through that stuff then you have the possibility of of what everybody wants to what everyone wants to be which ages a better person a better everyone yeah emotional archaeology which is really interesting because one of the things we struggle with I think is the balance balance between story and timeline right late on the one hand and you're telling history you want people to get a sense of what happened of course yesterday but but the I we I completely agree with you. That narrative and story is what makes someone. It's the only thing you know who knows first of all. There's lots of things as I of alumnae explain emotional archaeology it. This is not sentimentality. This runs dowager. those are the enemies of good anything the other thing. Is that quite often. We go through our own fashions in historiographer. Riyadh graffiti. You know you drop an atomic bomb. After you've murdered sixty million people and mean us I mean the human race does this in the Second World War and everything has this question and narrative is the first thing to go so to and then and then and then seems hopelessly bankrupt and inadequate to the situation and so we we begin to have Freudian approaches we begin to have Marxist or economic determinist approaches things we have later on symbolism Eliza him and semiotics and deconstruction and Afro Centrism and all sorts of ways of saying that this is the way in and what we have have come back to understand. Is that a much more informed we would say today woke narrative allows for all of those possible things. I've just watched with great satisfaction that often might there was a knee-jerk criticism to the work that I had done in the nineties because it didn't fit into an academic definition because it's subscribed to this old bankrupt thing called narrative now. There are some narratives that are Bancorp.. If you think a top down story of great men is only the story of American history then yeah it does work but if you're engaging a bottom up as well as the top down when you begin to realize that to tell that complicated store you have to bring in all of these other things these are the tools of narrative not the sole new way to-do history and so I think we come back and I've found the academy back to this idea that Yup it's narrative and then and then and then we just to be a little bit more conscious to be a little bit more expansive and generous. We have to be a little bit more inclusive. If we're going to call it our if we're going to do our jobs and I think the thing that we struggle with and that I think you do well is when you're telling a story you mentioned that you've told the Twentieth Century America however many times and each each time sort of a slightly different story. How do you know what to leave in what to leave. Ou- like what do you make this traces so that is actually my our job. We're amassing a vast body of information stuff. That's in the script stuff. That's in the interviews stuff. That's in the photographs stuff. That's in the footage. The Live cinematography whatever it is it's at least forty sometimes fifty sixty seventy times what we're GONNA end up using and then it's cutting it away the key for us. We've found his time you know. We're not doing these things in a couple of years. We're doing them over a decade in the case of Vietnam ten and and a half years or we're doing him in eight years and that's because we wanna wrestle with this material. We won't don't want to disqualify something. We WanNA learn. We WanNA throw throw stuff out are cutting floor is not filled with bad stuff. It's filled with really really good stuff that if we picked it up and showed you to go my God. Why isn't that in that go yeah we're. We're still hurting about that but it didn't fit. We edit human experienced down. Do you ever worry that you leave something out that all the time I of we you just we do know nothing is definitive. You do what you can do and I imagine that if I worked on civil war now now it would be thirty five hours right but it may not be as good a film it was who I was at that time and just struggling and waking up at four in the morning which I still do going and sometimes it hurts so bad that I'll say okay. Let's put it back and then and then you'll see and then maybe two months later three eight months eight or you go okay. Can we take it out. You see that destabilize Meritas that scene is it's now made something an hour later seemed kind of boring and you can watch people look look at their wives or shift their endeavor chair as because you've just in that moment lost them and I have. I make really long films that Zeke huge demand demand on our audience in a time when people are supposed to be butterflies flitting and we go now. We need you to stay for ten episodes eighteen hours of Vietnam or eight episodes in sixteen hours of this but then I'm obligated to make sure that if you've sat down there are GonNa be no interruptions for two hours and that it's my the obligation that if you bring your attention I will not squander that great gift that you've given me and if they're curious we want to reward that attention agean and that that's the compact of storytelling so much for this and we really appreciate. It's my my bits been my pleasure. That's Ken Burns his new eight part. Documentary Country Music Begins Airing on your local. PBS Station Station on September fifteenth and that's it for this week's show. I'm roundup but that I'm Rob Tina Louis and you've been listening to live from. NPR This show is produced by me and me and Jamie York Jerry ANAHUAC man Lawrence Lane Kaplan levinson smiling summer Heidari Greta pitting a fact check. This episode original music was produced for this episode by routine and has banned drop electric. Thanks also to on your Grun men and of course Ken Burns and PBS if you like this episode or you have an idea please writers at through line at MPR dot org or find us on twitter at do line NPR. Thanks for listening support for this N._p._R. Podcast and the following message come from nature's way maker of winter remedies like SAMBUC elderberry dummies. It's not just our way. It's nature's way learn more at nature's way DOT com.

Ken Burns NPR Nashville Vietnam US Mount Rushmore Beatles Ed Tito Bob Dylan president Austin Texas Toby Keith Carter Ray Charles Gresley Delta gus cannon
Jeff Calaway Ken Burns Country Music Part 1

Set Lusting Bruce: The Springsteen Podcast

57:27 min | 1 year ago

Jeff Calaway Ken Burns Country Music Part 1

"If you can write one son Like I'm so lonesome Mecca cry you know you've made your mark on history and on everyone who's going to follow so because my parents listen to so much country music My wife Linda was was going to talk about the girl from Tennessee she's long and she's tall. She came down from Birmingham on the road ice cannonball Abeche Canon Ball so you know I think from watching this and talking about it I I think he's he's a he's on that train alive wheel well first off introduce yourself in case someone jeff has been on the show a couple of times but just in case Tesla Yourself Jeff I grew up in the south I grew up country music and this PBS special was just excellent and brought back a lot of great memories of came down from Birmingham on coding sound for day as she rolled into the station year all the people say light and been a fan since probably fourteen I guess somewhere around there thirteen or fourteen and I have a winner I had to be here and you know what I've been thinking about this way too much after you asked me to do this and I think that Bruce Springsteen is on that one but today we are getting off the Bruce springsteen train and we're getting on the wabash cannonball we are Well My name is Jeff Callaway I am a huge Dork springsteen Fan and I've seen them hello everyone Atlanta too does she know why well by all she the combination cannonball she grandmother and and the people that I knew that little boy I am right there with you I I I grew up loving on and welcome to a new episode of settling Bruce Your podcast all about Bruce springsteen his music and mostly fans I am your host Jesse Jackson and I think we'll be able to leave them in I don't think we're leaving them entirely throughout this I know I don't think we are in fact that she says there's GonNa be songs you know that I don't and I said well yeah probably So I went into this just yeah with very high expectations and this this exceeded them you know we could Hawaii wonderful kid but I always tell people that bruce has been the one constant in my life since I was fourteen I think that's probably the best way to put it you're my buddy jeff is joining me and we're going to talk country music welcome to the show Jeff thank you jeff making up before I came on I I had really high expectations and he exceeded mine as well I just thought I know that I want to hang out with Rosanne cash and Marty Stuart I think that vocal on that song is about as good as anything he's ever recorded so they have they even into this well and I was going to bring up the way I felt was you know she got away from country music as she got older because her parents music right and yeah that's the way it actress civic from the Queen of flowing mountains to the south bills by she's mighty tall and handsome that I think that what I would argue is one of Bruce's greatest songs and certainly art and just talk country music Someday that would be I saw in cash actually I saw a springsteen in Kansas City increase clearwater and and rock bands before Bruce and I think those two were Kinda commentary and we were in the airport and Roseanne over their husband and the band and I was standing right behind her in Kansas City and I felt growing up my grandparents music and then really discovering bruce me too same thing I mean it's Kim Burns and everything he's done has been excellent and and knowing the people that were that he would be talking to watch I just did not say anything I didn't want to bother her but then I tweeted her and she was really really nice and that kind of wish that I just said hello but you know there's S. her father and that would be so ingrained in her and of course there's a wonderful story that she told where he started there on the but he started asking in my top five favorite songs land of hope and dreams is is specifically directly influenced by the Bluegrass for me and that's that's kind of what shaped my my musical tastes but it's interesting that you think rather than cashed having johnny her if you know if you knew this or she knew this song if she knew that phone and she didn't and then he made a list of one hundred songs that she had no rambler this train this hypocrites no midnight ramblers you know this train doesn't carry no liars Komo Velez Good when I was fourteen or whatever it led me back to my grandmother's Music Arlene it let me back to Johnny cash and Hank Williams and then eventually would he got free and and in even older music folk music so it is interesting you know and when you think of land of hope and dreams this train is for gamblers and for horrors and for the broken hearted kind of her musical education which eventually led to a great album where Bruce Thing Sea of heartbreak with her and you know what a great country Boise had sitting there I think they played the night before and I didn't want about him but but after watching that one of the things that Roseanne said that I thought was really interesting because Russian of this train is bound for glory bright does it this train is for glory this train this chain is bound for glory this train then you realize wow my grandmother had really great taste in music and and you realize how that music that storytelling that she loved that becomes the river he's playing Johnny cash song on fire I mean that music is ingrained in grain and him he's a sponge right I mean he ah yeah I know smokers talking about dogs a lot of people that bruce would be into and then to turn that into this that that song the original song is so and simplicity of the music really shaped what else to it shaped my brother my brother's older than me and he loves I think that's a direct influence of him saying that you know in in his version of a train Brown for glory or the land it just kind of taking the elements whether it's you know Chuck Berry or or Hank Williams he's you know playing a Hank Williams songs exclusive right it's pushing people out pushing people away off of the train and the fact that Bruce's welcoming everyone on that train I think you can make an don't ride nothing but the righteous in the holy this train is bound for glory this train and then the the lyrics are the chorus this train don't carry no game have hope dreams you know all are invited so yeah well again I totally I have a big grand great that is a beautiful song it's definitely steeped in a country Gospel folk tradition you know he's so good at that right now as you were saying that I I totally agree that's on you know what he got free covered it Hank Thompson covered into a lot of Like you were saying a lot of bluegrass artists but definitely hey where it's tight and it's just the right word and then even more so I think into the river and then Nebraska it is interesting he's a musical nerd like all of us and I think that's the great thing about his music is whether it's he has all of this welcome knowledge encyclopedic knowledge of British rocker and then as he got older blues and rb uh-huh we know this train don't jokes this train Brian adult dogs narrators and I had heard a lot of interviews with Ken Burns before it had come on this church and Rose Pine I this church as a kid and that is Bruce's way of we're all here in we've oh and then as he got older to discover country music and I think the biggest thing that country music good for him is making him a better think that he definitely learned that from those guys from Chicago from born to run in those and especially the earlier albums where he's just you know I mean we literally looking at a word dictionary for all of Sindh of God you know as one of the many versus I had to learn back in Sunday school at both Mill Creek bed documentaries were filmed with historians telling the story and he said in this one he had very oh the no I you know I'm thinking about this bringing back my southern roots you know view only like two or three official historians and everyone else were just musicians and I want to kind of jump up about what you talking about there were so many great editor of his work the simple finding someone like Merle haggard or Hank Williams or johnny cash like saying so much with so little and early version of that song he did say whores and ramblers you know like he's he tightened it a little bit as we move on I and one of the things he said he was so happy with is that in the past the show his welcomes everyone you know no one is kicking off the train except Said Dick Cheney right I saw in the making of that there was a a younger I don't remember what her position with the with the group was the filmmakers' but h- he took song and kind of use those two to twist and turn in the mold and I I definitely think your land drains it is a beautiful song that and he didn't need historians because the MS them musicians knew the history so much that's a much more Christian message right than the song that was written as a kind of Gospel you know welcoming everyone and you on the being the beauty of of this music right that it's not I think though many times the you know we think of just being White Guy Eric Music and having her on there I think was so crucial to and then you know Martha Stewart Martha Stewart is a Oh from from Ireland and from the slaves and then they're you know they're working together there in you know kids who are poor getting to know one another and people sneaking off to Black Churches Nino hearing this music and being out in the cotton fields and learning to Banjo and you know all of a sudden shortage of the glory of God is you know he's kind of saying hey we're all human and were there and it's just amazing John African American Lady on there and talking about you know the first episode is called the Rub and it basically just showing right for light and then to go from those three albums into all of a sudden darkness which is influenced by Punk and in country and and just seeing him get his chance and talking about the birds sweetheart of the Rodeo and that country rock scene in the late sixties and early seventies is spending my favorite music of all kinds and just I mean he is he's a walking history book and just hearing him talk I mean every time he came on I was like Oh man what's he going to say no I don't know like some type of vision quest tuck thing where he had his first two albums were flat and scruggs and Johnny cash and then he goes on to play for lesser black and then to go into you know Austin and Willie and Waylon and the outlaws and then yeah you know act than and to be so articulate in Roseanne to you know I mean yes Her father is you know on the Mount Rushmore there's there there is a moment later in the series where Emmylou Harris talking and it just gave me goosebumps. I'm a huge huge GRANDPA Stan first grade this train don't have gamblers reputation midnight ramblers train games Hazel Smith you know you're going to say you know just and I guess Mardian Roseanne Country Music but you could tell that her knowledge so extend past his and Ronnie crowd as well learning the federal and it it the the beginning of country music at the you know it is America we'll circle being broken is on the charts again You know so you talk about the rub so many of these artists appeared on Amazon it was just yeah they had literally an all-star cast of people telling stories that were you know just the scope of how far they took it you know from the first episode with the Rub whereas the Carter family and Jimmie Rodgers and is with their hair slicked back wearing nudie suits and you see how raw this music is and how it came from immigrants from all over from Mexico have coffee with Rana givens Rosanne Cash Marty Stuart and you know who else I loved was you know she was saying you know you have to get reaction Gooden's you have to get them and they were almost finished and then they're like Lucy we don't end in to have the you can just see the passion everyone yeah and like I'm of right there with you I want to go to a restaurant it's stories man and talking about that love and and how it's connected acing and how lucky that they got Merle haggard before he passed to share his story I that was then John McCain and I'm a huge fan fan but then when you have went and Marcellus talking about testament if you enjoyed this series that's about as good as it gets as far as letting you hear some of these artists I mean wreck on the highway tasing fully agree and just real quick I am a huge degrading van fans as well and the fact that driving off and would be And I guess though all of them but you just yes it would be great to sit down with Charley pride and Willie Nelson in this train don't can't resist this train okay yeah I think that no go go yeah I think it's interesting right dieu et on versions that I just loved look into your Johnny cash says if he's GonNa marry them one day he does I mean you know like you gotTa have made his own future at a lot of ways that taking the stairs over the line when it tortured secrecy nosy and and mother may bill is on that well and I can't yet and I've I've bought every version because they've gone back in all right so let's go back to the beginning I had a pretty good knowledge of Country Music and I certainly knew A little bit about Jimmy Rogers and the Carter family but I did not this debut Lino Twenties Thirties Forties very scratchy and and so Here Roy Echo thing that song is beautiful I was so happy they wanted the episodes highlighted that because you know they made it very clear you know hearing the The Great Peter Coyote go they they were not interested in being in front of the Mike they were there to back up these classic artists that was what they wanted to do and it's such a great story so yeah on an item now and you know for anybody listening to this you have to get well the circle being broken That is a walking I want to give it to plug is right by Peter Doggett a few years ago like I was saying with with Gram Parsons and but you know we all know where that leads for a beautiful heart wrenching version very clean a lot of those recording from the understand how they were the root of the country music tree how about you started just kept going back and back and back and then really where I found key rodgers and the Carter family and also I don't know John Will the circle be unbroken volume two volume three volume four there is a great John Hiatt Rosanne cash yeah I Bristol so there's a great our book called are you ready for the country save appeal Darden so let's go step the person who gathered this music it's really great with music from the Mid Twenties to mid thirties Jimmy Rogers on there's a lot of great music from that time period the Carter family on there so I'm really showing my nerdiness here on is GRANDPA and Michael from the monkeys Rick Nelson the grateful dead there was great during that period of time were were is my wife as regular listeners know but we're watching this together and we paused for a moment to get something to drink or go for it they see the word down to sign don't apologize family songs I don't get it and I said well I'll use this as an example before you know variety show on Saturday night we would go to bed without dinner You know and by watching the any johnny cash special which I was expected to I say this only slightly tongue in cheek if we didn't watch johnny cash is special and the Carter family were play than certainly you know June and her sisters but I was not aware of well because I knew the Carter Family just Miller of it and then if you watch into that and just started just digging into it as Nerdy as possible and doing so I like the dead recovering Merle Haggard and There was a lot of great crossover the hippies and were really into this kind of music so I really really got it johnny cash bio pic walk the line you know Mother Ray Bell is a big player you know kind of a different way to make play guitar And so one of the things that Linda brought up and Sarah and her strong voice and mother may bills you know strumming in her setting started doing a doctor who podcast every once in a while I try to watch a classic doctor WHO and I wouldn't get it it just seem cheesy that the story started gaining in ear or an eye for that kind of storytelling I began to enjoy it more and outbreak and she said you know I don't WanNa say this out loud but I'm not impressed with Jimmie rodgers the Carter you're from familiar with this and they didn't mention it but there's a box set from the Smithsonian Cody Anthology of American folk music Harry Smith was you know I have great appreciation for certainly for for their who they were as artists but let's just you'll never win a different kind of sound might ear has to adjust to it so I thought that was an interesting observation on her point in huge Merle Haggard Fan and like you were saying Johnny cash so I was familiar with a lot of the Jimmy Rodgers songs and once Ya get through all of the warbling and and the different savage yodel and things like that but but now I love it you know what I mean now it's align didn't seem good the special effects I said but then when we were going to cover it for the podcast I had to pay attention and and then as uh-huh of that you know when you first hear just you know the Carter family or you know Jimmy so I think you know when I first heard it I was probably in college and so yeah it it was the same thing for him and it took me a while to kind of you realize how important this music is you realize that they were the first to break out acts doc are hard to listen to I think just from the first time that you're hearing it but you know I knew a lot of the plan you know and and just the the quality of the David Rogers case but some writing and and in the Carter family in finding those songs and recorded them his as we're watching this I pause this kind of on the second one and I said bear with me just for a minute and she goes oh that's interesting so as we continue to listen she went oh will that one I like Oh that one I like and she goes maybe you're right maybe it's such a and I said junior who good friend of mine always talks about that you have to go to every jurors you're like what what is this and you kind of have to get used to it what are your thoughts on that yeah I think it's a lot of it is just the recording Yeah I've kind of got to where I can handle the actual recording about two and one of the things that I was also impressed jeff together it's it's all it's all built on each other and if you miss anything you're not GONNA get it and every time they would bring up Marvel Universe film you can't skip one because he always takes his fingers and meshes them you know like they they all fit beginning charm every heart in his crown I will and You and I really like I loved Him Burns baseball documentary up until yeah because you know you start talking about that and as you're listening to this you know Bob Wills and Western swing but there is a direct connection back to Someone that leads to Jimmy Rogers Rogers and then you say I grew up listening to Hank Williams she and I would make those fingers together like this truly is a branch this one that would have been my favorite documentary every five or six years I pull it out and I really watch it just out of joy to hear the stories and everything was one of the most satisfying parts of the documentary to me to show you kind of Kinda get that and you kind of go yeah like Elvis and the Beatles influence people but in this it truly is if you like as we were saying how it would be really really difficult to do something like this with a rock music because like you're saying there's so many you know and and the Carter family and and then You know the Buck Owens Lakers feel sound and then even the national sound homework a history lesson Chris this was just a joy and in fact we went to the first four episodes that had shown of it it all flows together there is a to B which leads to see which leads to d and that longhairs at the time and their respect for those people to and and the fact that Merle haggard saying I like civil war I like Vietnam I liked jazz but part of them almost felt like is wrong I thought was really interesting I mean he can make that discussion I mean I think it's in the argument for sure but you know I mean you have on our local PBS station and Linda's like man that's it we gotta wait till next week and I said well I thought I saw it was on structure if you do a family tree like it all goes back to these two artists yeah they laid the foundation that's a really interesting point you know I mean people can't even decide what the first rock song is can't Hank Williams junior bid for his dad creating the I nancy and I were talking about the the other day too we were out walking and talking about it and we were talking about how an it's a great way to put it you know and then the important records and on and on and on but you are exactly right with country I think that there is a buying you have the Jimmy Rogers Carter family laying the foundation in everybody else's building their house on top of that and yes I think that's a really great way to put it in and it truly shows the importance demand on Amazon so I went there and they said that you have to have like pbs pass key to see it Of these two acts and and you know I mean with the Carter family the fact that it extended to rent them that they were still playing with I five dollars a month sign and we ripped through the other four that Saturday we didn't want to wait because it was so fascinating Wanted to introduce people Bob Wills and he wanted to introduce people to Jimmy Rogers and so did Johnny just shows the respect they had for for those the forefathers from Texas but her her dad not and and so can you music was not something that she knew at all then sell insurance all know this I did not know that I didn't know that either and you basically loving this country music but but you know she would come and sit down and be like Oh yeah I know that person now and Oh that's interesting I didn't know that you know and Texas swing and I'm fascinated that with WCM this was just the well that's awesome it was at my wife she did not grow up with country music I mean she you know her parents while her mom was you know we've kind of talked a little bit about the rub and then the second episode hard times where it talks about singing cowboys and yeah I remember growing up hearing about is you would pay something very little per month Johnny and they end that they're on that need a greater and album it shows to someone like you know a band you know the you know the radio station was trying to figure out how it can promote because their own via life insurance company and it was one of those that I you know I heard people saying even if you're not interested in country music you should watch this that's hard for me to I don't I don't know if that would be the case because I I loved it so much so we got together and other than you know what you learn from Jerry Garcia and the dead and so as we were watching it she was it was just write stories which you know that's the best of country music as well as great stories yeah and so rocket eighty eight you see Chuck Berry Domino I mean you know there's there's all of this out there where does blue stop and then you know where it is rock begin and they talked about they would go on Saturday night they would walk through because back then before air conditioning people would have there and the guy would come to your door and collect the little five dollars thousand dollar life insurance policy the Metropolitan Opera and then them saying now it's time for the Grand Ole opry but the get that in full was a pretty interesting story and I'm like what a great thought and right and I'd always heard the story about the radio station playing the you know I can't believe how much of this I've learned through Osmosis and I would watch arson sounds like she become just sat down on the couch and just start watching it because she was so interested in it I do a Google search and you have to give sixty dollars a year or five dollars a month to your local TV station so Linda's gift card outs we're going we're donate and is open and you would take notice of WHO's listening to the Grand Ole opry on the radio and then on Monday that's the houses they would call on it's like a modern jazz band about the difference Solos and people taking turns I had never connected the dots but once he Growing and to hear Marcellus talk about that the way Western swing was almost story Bill Monroe you know Lester Flatt and Earl scruggs I did not know about the break-up them going together and and the story of how they came up with the term bluegrass had you heard that story yeah I you know you knew more about that than I did like going I didn't know that any of that story I just I took him that's the way I always thought of woody as well there's more of a country artist but yeah you know it's interesting because I think that that when your research well I knew quite a bit I'm a big got three you know like I thought it interesting with Marty Stuart again kind of you know Woody Guthrie other country artists but politics Folks Ed that I went oh yeah that's that's crazy how much that I remember the first I'm hearing Pennsylvania Roads and episode shows Like we were just talking about Jimmy Rogers and the Carter family kind of you know laying the foundation and the route but but now you're starting to see it branch out and people I just shows what a great and that Tommy Dunkin band was was remarkable and so you know in Texas on the Andy Griffith show but they're actually dillard's and they are amazing but and I I own some Bill Monroe albums Eight years I just I always loved and you know Earl scruggs later albums a really really good to where the birds are on there proscribed really pushed not only bluegrass but folk music and country music in kind of blurring the line between The extra swing being influenced by jazz and and you know just you can start to see that this this music is taking on a lot of big on and yeah in just all kind of American music he's one of my favorites so I I knew a lot of what they were talking about there in town great artists that the to the Yeah love that episode I getting to Bob Wills and Roy Acuff and then and you know it all goes back the money right but but then in the midst of that like all of these really pure that's right I kind of proud saying like yeah I did not know the country music just how rally they played and and how great they were in it pretty amazing though to have Bill Monroe and ended basically the term and that's kind of the same story of why it's Easter Band right that supposedly bruce was sitting on the car waiting hearing their names and then the same thing with quoted one of my favorite John Ford movies on the man who shot Liberty Valance in a later episode that When the legend art shown until where dreams Lester Flatt and scruggs and so you when you go to flat and scruggs you wouldn't say oh can you play one of the songs used Whiten scruggs fan I I love proscribed Stanley Brothers I love the Dillard's the band they play the darlings the legend becomes more property than the truth? You print the legend so this baby legend but supposedly Bill Monroe could not stand bad side as he seemed to carry a grudge for yeah and the story and I don't know if this is true or not but in some time as they like are they going to sing join your own John Rea- and to create it yourself I there's no denying how hey good looking you know cocoa heart

Jeff I Mardian Roseanne Country Music Bill Monroe Mecca Tennessee Linda Birmingham Hazel Smith America Tesla Ronnie John Rea Amazon five dollars thousand dollar sixty dollars Eight years six years one day Mill
S2 E65: Ken Burns talks "Country Music"

The All New Dennis Miller Option

46:27 min | 1 year ago

S2 E65: Ken Burns talks "Country Music"

"This is Dennis Miller option your source of opinion stories and laughs from comedian and inactivates Dennis Miller and his Guy Friday today Christian Blat what's up Hiroshi. Let's Light This Candle Ladies and Gentlemen Dennis Miller folks well joining us now is Ken Burns the well listen the preeminent documentarian and on the Mount Rushmore of current historians. Thank God chronicling this thing for the future because I don't know that this is going to be Dir as your for the the millennials to keep track of the past so for candidate this he's a sort of our plenty of the elder country music is currently airing on pbs you can find the whole series on PBS. Dot Org and the PBS S. APP or I like watching TV at night and I haven't missed one yet welcome to the show Ken. Thank you so much plenty of the elder. I'm I'm I'm now. A tear is forming in my I hadn't really that as an accolade and now I'm. I don't know how to engrave that. That's it's really well. Let me catch that falling tear in my hands and spread it out into the diaspora. Listen I am. I am not a I'm not not a country music fan but I I am the ultimate neophyte whereas the civil war is the greatest work art and contemporary culture for me but I was a civil war devotee and I know baseball to this one is absolutely brilliant and I must tell William taking in a two hour chunks and I sit there after all over how I had a blank spot between the car mirrors on this to some degree. I knew like Lehman brilliant work. My friend absolutely brilliant. Thank you thank you know I think the key is in what we quote. In the opening of the film the Songwriter Harlan Howard so that country music is three chords and the truth. That's right up acknowledging. Its simplicity essential simplicity that doesn't have the sophistication of the complication occasion of classical music but that other part the truth means means that its main lining universal human experiences now we take country music and because it's so hard to deal with two four letter words love and loss you disguise until it's just good old boys and pick up trucks and hound dogs and six packs of beer and it does have a distinguished history covering that but most of what it is is dealing with those two things thanks love and loss and nothing better. It's also not the lower forty of musical forums. It's not isolated. It's not an island nation that you need to have a visa or relaxed immigration rules to get to or come from. It's a budding the blues. It's a budding jazz. It's a budding rhythm and blues in fact with Rhythm and Blues. It is apparent of rock and roll. It's a budding rock and roll and folk and Gospel and pop and hip hopping and an and even classical so it's it's part of our musical. DNA and I knew I'd have folks who like country music. It's I made it for. Somebody says I didn't really know and I bet you though you realizing that you knew a lot more than I thought and that some of those songs have already insinuated themselves into your heart and isn't better to have a story connected it. It doesn't like buying the K. Tell offer or the time life series. It's suddenly so you've got story behind it. When you find out coming up wide Dolly Parton wrote I will always love you one of the great songs of all nine which we know mainly from Whitney Houston's crossover success running crossover success and I'm not taking anything away from Whitney. 'cause version still raises the hair on the back of my neck when you learn why she does it. It's a declaration of independence for her away. Suddenly her version will be as good good if not greater than the Whitney's not taking anything away from Whitney's and that's where I think story is is important thing we've interwoven all of these songs the very best so country music into who made them how they were made the circumstance that were made where they came from just good storytelling. Well let me let let me lay down to concepts here. I think anytime anybody pens the song and has for me a better voice than Whitney Houston and Whitney Houston. It has an incredible voice. I'm talking. Dolly Parton voice when you first glimpse are on Puerto Wagner's Joe other world colds otherworldly. No one has been no one has been given a gift from God like a voice like that. I was talking to a jazz musician and he said she's never missed a note ever as ever which means you know you get to have a poor performance you get to have a she's never missed a note and that's the first thing on on top of it. She is in the Mount Rushmore of great singer Songwriters in country music so she's up there with Hank Williams with Jimmy Rogers with Johnny cash with with You know Loretta Lynn with Merle Haggard with Kris Kristofferson. We're getting crowded up on Mount Rushmore but you gotTa do Judgment Good Judgment Judgment All of these people. She's the best and then she's a phenomenal human being great businesswoman. I mean she's the real deal and this is a story. It's a about race. It's about women. It's about creativity. It's about the emotions that you and I are talking about but it's also about people rising up from unbelievable stoltifying poverty ready to do something so it isn't just depression-era. There's lots there but it's before the depression and and even afterwards so Dolly Parton is born born in Dirt Poor East Tennessee Holler in which she has no running water no indoor plumbing and no electricity and the doctor who comes into that Holler her to deliver her is paid by her father with a sack of corn meal now than we think of her as an utterly modern figure utterly modern learn contemporary character so you begin to realize that a good deal of these songs and what makes them fantastic songs is the friction of having to negotiate she ate not comfort and convenience but real life threatening stuff and she knew what she wanted early and she went for it and she got it as Ralph emory's Great. WFAN Grand Ole opry radio announcer said she she came ready you know she's you what she wanted and she came and she took it and some people are anointed by God with talent and when she steps in front of the camera on his morning show no warble attended waibel terrible but no and just you even when they talk to her now you could see she says I knew ahead of talent. It's the it's the less I it's the very difference between egotism and he goes centric this woman I knew that she had and but she didn't flash and also I was intrigued that she did come from that Holler but immediately laid down a feminist sort of manifesto with border. It's sort of interesting that we think of or a conventional wisdom suggests that country music is some essentially conservative thing and it is is in so far as it spends a good deal of its time and effort conserving in the best sense of the word traditional American verities. It's also always pushing pushing the boundaries of it but in fact when Loretta Lynn in the mid sixties is singing. Don't come home drink and with love and on your mind the same year here that the National Organization for women founded in the term women's liberation goes into the lexicon. Nobody in rocketing anything like this. Nobody in folk would ear speak to these things but in country music you know that the hillbillies they're saying it's real now as we say in the film she's she's not going to identify with any movement nor are growing legion of fans. They just finally realized somebody's speaking for them and that goes back to the beginning of the film. This is a music about the people who built America black as well as white ordinary people who have have suspected all along the this advertised thing of play a level playing field doesn't exist and the songs that they negotiate about love and loss and just making it through the world are real and they're speaking to people who feel like their stories aren't being told as we say in the intro and that to me is a key to why the music so enduring why it's so effective why it's so wildly popular now is because when you just think about. Dolly Song Right the verse is I. I will always love you. I will always love you. I will always love you. I mean of course is at an knuckleheads like you and me we think Oh man I could write a country song and then you realize you can't or or Hank Williams the silence of a falling star lights up a purple sky and as I wonder where you are I'm so lonesome some I could cry. There's nobody on the planet hasn't experienced that or the other side of it. I got a hot rod board two dollar bill and I know a place right over the hill. Mhm I love when you cut the Carlene Carter and she's always she's a perfect punctuation on the being stupefied by brilliant simple lyric. I I always like getting to her because she has that. Look on her face. Show recant lyric and then just look at the camera and go and see. Let's sit for a second. I always get goosebumps. This bumps yeah exactly right a me too. I mean I did you know we've talked. The last time I talked to. I think is the Vietnam and I'm thinking you know we're never going to touch hutch the depth of emotion that was present in all the myriad voices across the political spectrum if you have to say that but just across across the spectrum of experience on that and yet this thing is is hugely emotional and hugely powerful and I'm having people coming coming up to me I mean it's been since the civil war that somebody's come up to my door and knocked on the door and said wow we're loving and can my daughters take a picture with you know that that sort of thing that just you know people stopped me in the street so they stopped me and they say nice things but the fact that it's got a kind of bedrock American emotion conditioning fittingly at resumes and I'm telling you that shot I love what whitten's bringing to it wouldn't Marsalis talks about how that music's upstream time-wise from the culture adjusting you see people turning people away at lunch nets and then went and says but music and they show these two one looks very modern this black cat and there's another black cat who looks like almost like a jazz blues del Cabinet and then they pull the shot wider and there's just a little local burcin lighter and sit next to goosebumps and he says art tells the tale of us coming together and that's I think the point of not just this series and I don't mean point because that gives us idea that we start off with some agenda we just tell stories and then after the fact we look up and see oh ooh that's rhyming and the president and this way or or not or I see that is doing this but Dennis I've had the privilege all of my professional life now more than forty years to operate to make films about the US Capital U. Capital S. but I also by default make films about the lower lower case plural Pronoun version of that so all of the intimacy of us and also we and our with all the majesty and the Brett's and the complexity and the contradiction and even the controversy of the US and it's a wonderful space to have privilege space to have been able to spend forty plus years sort of you know ploughing my little acreage and saying here the stories that come up to me. They're all the same right I mean it basically the subject is different but the but the guts of it are us and the US that's that's what I do and what I understood doing country entry music as you watch as you look at a photograph like that where I'm saying just Pano Hanover. Let's see that little kid. Don't show him in the beginning. Let's just move over to that little kid. We're all together is that there's only us there's no them we live in a binary media and computer culture which has to establish. Ah Bush opposite. It's gotTa be Red State Blue State. It's gotta be younger old gay or straight Richard Poor male or female east west North or South. It's all wonderful convenience. It's but our own. DNA shows that we are ninety nine point nine nine percent exactly the same and a few little things are different for and yet we waste so much energy making the Obama them rather than understanding their facet of us. You know you look at the early pioneers our country Music Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter family they don't sound anything alive and they themselves are an admixture of lots of different forces Delta Delta Blues and African American Song Catcher who went out they Carter the railroad crews the mostly black railroad clues that Jimmy Rogers heard in the deep South as is there laying track plus their own overlay of IOS and country old hillbilly stuff as as they would call it and and Jimmy Rogers most definitely represents Saturday night to the carters morning right. He's a scam. He's he's a habitue of of the bars and the Carter family is about family family mother home. Whatever it is but in point of fact as you dig into the stories you find moments of Jimmy Rogers artistry which is speaking to universal reversal human almost spiritual aspirations and speaking to the people were suffering as he is to be with. TB then the number one killer in the United Right States and the Carter family is having their own kind of peyton place of marital problems and and affairs and and and and leavings and and complications so you begin to realize you know there's Pogo said in a nineteen forties comics he said we have met the enemy and he is us and I just like to graduate that there's no enemies just us and we're super complicated and if we try to reduce it to Kinda sanitize Madison Avenue version of their sales. We don't serve anybody very well and when we do serve US part of the US then we have a chance to have a conversation and to me country music's just a part of a conversation the novelist Richard Power said the best arguments in the world won't change a single person's mind the only using that can do that as a good story so we're just rooting around for good sorry conversation with the Melody Indeed we're talking to Ken Burns his latest documentary entry country music currently airing on pbs you can find the whole series on pbs dot Org and the PBS APP listen. I have a message for our listeners that are fifty and over and I don't mean pounds. Retirement is around the corner when you like to get up to thirty three percent more more from yours and I don't mean years free book called Annuity. Do's and don'ts for baby boomers from a annuity general a leading financial firm on how to maximize your income in retirement contains little known truths about annuity told in simple to understand terms terms can help everyone make the right choices before buying an annuity and like I said it's free so you should call eight hundred six one nine eight eight nine two now. If you do annuity annuity general will throw in a free annuity report as well the free rate report summarizes rates and benefits from financially strong insurers so take advantage of getting both free books is while you can call annuity general at eight hundred six one nine eight eight nine two two annuity do's and don'ts for baby boomers and the annuity rate report both free free right now. That's eight hundred six one nine eight eight nine two eight hundred six one nine eight nine two I watched yes I had seen episodes to three and then last night I watched that one lives not three four and five and not seen one and I watched it during the afternoon yesterday and I was never to the fact that the I think of country music as a vessel it comes here from divergencies and it comes here with two paddles won the fiddle from England and one the Banjo enjoy my friend well said that's exactly right and who would have thunk that the two main in instruments of country music to fiddle and Banjo one comes from the from the British Isles and Europe and the other comes from Africa and that's in fact what the mixture of influences are within country music. Whatever Gina your whether it's the Jimmy Rogers or the Carter family's Hank Williams had rufus tee tot payne who is nineteen street musician who taught him this is Williams now. He said I got all the musical education I needed from him. Bill Monroe the father of Bluegrass you know how to his uncle pen was a mentor but so was arnold shows a gifted African American violinist and Johnny Cash Gus Cannon on the streets of Memphis where this explosion is about to take place between Gospel and rhythm and Blues and so called Hillbilly Music which is going to produce what they initially called rockabilly and China's GonNa grow up into what we now know is rock and roll which you may have heard of. Is that indeed a picture that I saw in Memphis. I it was a brief glimpse and I I. I know I clocked Jerry. Lee Lewis Johnny cash. Elvis Presley is the fourth Guy Carl Perkins a theme Jerry. Lee Is Minute Carla's is and and Johnny and Elvis and we got a I mean you go to a cash family. You say got home movies and go yeah. We used to watch him when we were kids hid. I think they're in here so you print them out and there's a beautiful picnic. Everybody focuses only on his love affair with June Carter but it's really better to hear it's not just about the Levek Ferro Jakarta but his original love with Vivian Libretto the woman he married and who gave him his his his his daughters. He'll eventually have a son on with June but then you see their home movies and how in love they are and then you'll see them fooling around on the Road Tennessee to Marshall and looser and and Johnny and then you see fooling around with Elvis and then you see them fooling around with Carl Perkins and they're at a diner in there eating French fries and Cole Perkins's bonding with Johnny Cash 'cause they both comparing the fact that they have scars on their hands from picking cotton as little kids. I've I've you johnny cash much the same way people say boy how does a man turn on himself to that degree because he's brilliant and he's obviously spiritual guy but I I remember reading this spot. Spencer Tracy wants wants that he and his wife had had a deaf child and then he began to fall a he began to not walk the line and I write singing. I walk the line and then I with Vivian to reassure her great fear as everyone married spouse back at home fears is that the well-known temptations of the road would befall him and he would call every night and say no no no and he would sing. I walk the line for her but in fact he had fallen in love with June Carter and more warm portly I think to your point he also fell in love with the drugs that kept going and able to do that and it was June's demand that he cleaned himself up that led to his you know crucible moment where he comes mostly clean and then goes folsom prison and at the end of the sixties comes out with triumphant hit and in sixty eight and then he becomes the polly he is if he hasn't already been the polymath of country music of his omnivorous this curiosity about everything musical so he gets a TV show after that a nationally broadcast TV show and he brings on James Taylor. I know data and the network guy. I say you can't bring on Pete Seeger. He's left. He brings on Pete Seeger. He wants to sing Sunday morning coming down by Kris Kristofferson because he thinks I should have written that and in one line is a just wishing God that I were stoned and that works as you can't say that and he goes okay okay and then he gets to it. I wish in God you're stony puts on Louis Armstrong who had played with Jimmie Rodgers back in the twenties now. It's like the eve of the Seventies. it's just he's just amazing brings on Bob. Dylan Dylan never went on TV. Let alone live TV and there is singing girl from north country with Johnny cash. It's just it's like four days of separation. Forget six. I made the whole we've gives you goosebumps to for all newly armstrong essence the Jimmy Rogers jazz right exactly right. That's exactly right and that's what the guy who recorded them. Ralph peer thought he said you know I can bring by this guy. Who's doing the best in this sub sub-genre and this Guy Louis Armstrong. Who's doing this in jazz and they'll play blue yodel number nine standing on the rate blues tune. They play it together and then there's Johnny cash you know taking the part of Jimmy Rogers long dead from tuberculosis singing with Louis Armstrong who's not long from the grave but you just Kinda go who is loose bumped up pier gentlemen without peer quite frankly even to to this day in the affair deal kind of key Cau- ag- grease the gears like every way shape or form going to record race records meeting rhythm and Blues Clues not getting enough someone says well. Maybe there's a market for some old hill country music that eventually becomes hillbilly that eventually becomes country and Western. That's just eventually becomes country and some today would say is now Americana and Roots but he records in in Bristol Tennessee in August of twenty seven on August first the Carter family on August fourth Jimmy Rogers which is lightning striking twice the two polarities of it and then has the foresight to you know have Louis Armstrong come in Hollywood and and it's just amazing he got it and and in country music is born when you marry this music that heretofore had been on porches or on barn dances or sung at Church and and suddenly you've got a thing called a phonograph which means you can preserve it forever but more importantly you got a new new thing photographs been around for a while a new thing called radio. Oh which means that you can send it out now my friend you probably already know this but if you look in nineteen ten in your dictionary under the word broadcast it means a farmer working working his way down a furrow with a bag of seeds and he has systematically strewing the seeds broad casting them out into do this freshly ploughed field broadcasting then you wait twenty years nineteen thirty that's now the secondary definition broadcasting means the brought walk from one person again from one place one signal. You are broadcasting everywhere this idea and if you're if that is no nineteen thirty and and depression is just overtaking you and your loved ones. That's one way to abolish loneliness you don't have to buy you can't afford it but if you've got a radio you can hear for free the things that are going to connect you together. Whether it's a fireside chat from your president or whether it's the music of Jimmy Rogers or with this new music incubating in the dancehalls of Harlem called swing. You know whatever it's going to be. It's going to stitch together and it's GonNa make it possible for the people to work together through the depression so that they can work even harder together to get through the Second World War even Dolly way out and other people like Dahlie way out in places where there are no electricity of so heartened at the fathers would work hard and go get a battery powered radio and her thing is she said and I remember going out and put in the water on the ground and it would it would whistle in and out but we that's where we'd hear the Grand Ole opry. You know you just you just look and you know this is Dolly. Parton who is very movingly in our film says look. I modeled my look on the town trollop. She said Charles Pushes a great euphemistic great word and what she means is she comes in from the Holler to go to town the big town which is Vera Ville and there's the woman of ill repute but to her this little girl she looked so beautiful and she wants to be Laker painted and big hair and big boobs and whatever that is that and but the fact that you could take some icon like Dolly Parton who is free to admit that sort of stuff it it just it's so refreshing to find somebody so honest and so direct yes. I'm MARLA. I modeled my look after the town trump. I thought she was beautiful. And that's the the way I wanted to look because when you see Dolly in her high school photo she looks like Scalp from Harper. Lee's to kill a mockingbird cut and they they see neither the city girls with their color and their their amplitude all that and of course two young girl that would look like that we're talking to Ken Burns and the documentary you can tell I'm completely involved in. I mean literally anticipating tonight's episode because I I believe will run into Waylon and Willie all those cats tonight is currently airing on pbs you can find a whole series at pbs dot org and the PBS APP when isolate on a couple of the people that I love so far just listening into I when Dwight Yoke and talks about Merle Song about the lights leaving holding things together yeah what a wipe out and not so here I am I'm in I'm in the Capitol records you know Hollywood and vine capital in the studio where buck look in the maddox brothers and rose and Merle and Dwight have all recorded field guys the Bakersfield guys with people holding down you know we're not going soft and syrupy the the way the national sound which is a nineteen fifties is desperate to have some crossover success because rock and roll is really sending country down and so they're having you you know and let's not we don't have to make the other wrong here. Crazy written by Willie Nelson Song bypass decline is the number one jukebox tune of all time and that's most definitely a Nashville sound but there's folks out there saying no we have a Twang and we're proud of his Twang and this is real and this is how we're going to do do it and we're not going to bring in strings to replace fiddles and we're not going to have backup choruses to replace our nasal harmonies. This is who we are and so they come out so dwight is a wonderful person who understands this loved buck buck sort of thought he was like his own son and he's trying to resurrect direct the importance of Merle Haggard and connects it to his okie past you know when his father had arrived there and then they were denigrated as being shiftless Lazy Zeno Account Workers when in fact they were the hardest workers just desperate for a chance to get a job and then later waves of Brown people in the Central Valley. All you would also experience this thing that dispossession if you will and and you send this marvelous job he says but my favorite song is holding things together and he starts off that sentence is fully prepared to do it and he starts singing it and then he can't go any further because he realizes it's right to the bone and it's like so many moments points in the film. He just stopped. She's like twelve second pause. You know my friend. What a twelve second pause. It's like we're just waiting. We're not judging we're just waiting for and Dwight to catch up and he just looks up and he says Merle's good and then he doesn't sing but he speaks to sort of killer. Verse that kind of era of right to your heart and then you realize it's not just Merle. That's all you need to know about Merle but it's also dwight and you realize that this is a family story and American family story which is being handed down generation to generation Dahlie in another part of it causes an heirloom Sung's and experiences and truth the very beginning of the film Merle says it's about things that we believe in and can't see like songs and dreams and so I just go okay no. That's it just up there. That's what it is. It's about things that we believe in but can't see and that's what it's echoing whitten. Who says you know music's the art of the invisible the only art form we don't see and it works on us that much faster because we don't see it. We don't see it coming coming up. We don't see it grabbing. Hold of our our our you know our stomach our hearts or minds and it doesn't we just don't appreciate how powerful of course it is and country. Music is just one delivery vehicle for bringing the three chords truth right to you. When you see Merle Haggard get folks and believe me. He has visitation from almost an angel in the Johnny cash plays the Q. and he gets it that he has to get together. He gets straight two and half years later. He's out. He becomes an important important player in this whole thing and when you see him when he's young. He's almost conway. Birdie tire was that the characters characters name abide by Birdie handsome and then as an yeah yeah and you see a life lived eventually. When you need looks folks when you're young because the world doesn't know you you need wisdom when you're old and you've traveled the trail because you look at Maryland boy. There's a life lived right Ark.. You and I are in total sync on this brother because whenever he come on in the editing room I just yell Zeus like everytime on whether whether he wanted you to understand how important is the maddox brothers and rose or comment on Bob will and his Texas playboys the Western swing or whether he's talking about his own experience experience or whether you just comedies like almost two cheers himself talking about one of the road today I started loving you again. He is Zeus He. There's no there's no thunderbolt of anger. What a retribution his. Just you have as you say the wisdom you see all the miles on his tires. You see what he's been through and the fact that this Hollywood handsome guy is Ralph emery calls them the radio disc jockey from Nashville. Doesn't you need to put that on anymore. It doesn't have to be he doesn't have to he's prettiest Warren Beatty when he comes up and and now he's just himself off and he you know he lied okay hat and he's got the whiskers and he looks and he swallows hard. Sometimes a tear comes in his eye or he's. He says oh he's as serious as a heart attack you know are you talking about the maddox brothers and rose because sometimes you go to a place and you think why did I come here but whenever you saw the maddox brothers brothers and rose you knew you would come to the right place in summoned like the monolith or something in two thousand and there were resonances out in the force and and people went to them we're talking to Ken Burns his sixteen hour a work well like I said how many times can comes out of the box almost for me with civil war and that's my bailiwick. That's what I love to read about and I'm thinking how does this guy. It's like you know. A Buzz Aldrin coming back from the moon and selling yachts is in Tempe where the fuck the ago after you do that first but he answers the call every time and I am completely immersed as you will be in country music. It's currently airing on pbs you you can find the whole series on pbs dot org and the PBS APP. Whether you're an athlete weekend warrior someone who deals with constant joint pain back pain lean muscle soreness or arthritis finding a natural remedy that instantly works might seem nonexistent most over the counter painkillers such as icy hot. I'm Ben Gay only focus on one basic cooling effect such as mental which temporarily takes your mind off the pain until that pain returns in around an hour so if you're looking to get rid of nagging muscle and joint pain immediately while providing long lasting recovery than you need to try the natural breakthrough pain relief solution Creo free. CBD developed OMAHODIC's health got mine in the mail the other day this nonprescription triple the action pain relief role on is specially formulated to block pain receptors reduce inflammation and improve muscle and joint flexibility the the best part. Is this one hundred percent natural. CBD powered remedy works its magic within ten minutes of application and relief lasts up to eight eight hours much longer than the over the counter products. It's super easy to throw in your gym bag. Take on the gopher emergency pain relief simply roll it over where it hurts. It's ice out the pain with Arctic blast. Amax health is offering my listeners twenty percent off a full bottle of KRIO freeze. He's pain relief for alone. Plus free shipping this discount also applies towards any product site-wide just go to Oman X. A X health dot com today a an enter Code Miller to take advantage of this incredible savings. That's Oem A. X. Health DOT COM Enter Code Miller to get twenty percent off cry oh freeze and anything else site-wide and lastly enclosing. I just wanted to say can thank thank you for your time and I'm so enjoying Marty Stuart boy right he yeah Dandy Authentic Nick you know like he's he dressed as a dandy but boy when he pulls out his little isn't a mandolin and jamming or talking and is that in fact true that he ends up marrying that woman twenty years later but he goes you know goes to the Choctaw Indian Fair grounds. We're Connie Smith whose record adorns his record player midst minute host a Washington and he thinks she's the prettiest girl ever and he gets a couple of snapshots we got him and and then he says his Momma and his sister on the way home. I'm GonNa Marry her someday and twenty five years later he does and I've been out to dinner at Mardian Connie's house and they are married and Connie. I mean mark. The luckiest guy on earth because Connie is one of the greatest human beings on. It's just it's it's one of those great unbelievable stories that if you went to Hollywood with it they'd say get Outta here that could never happened and the way he reveals it in his Elfin. Delight is so sweet. Eh Twenty five years later he did that gave me goosebumps. Can it's a it's a great piece work and one last thing I is this show you the vagaries of music where the world takes you folks honest to God as I watched I was thinking certainly the the the beautiful lament went Ken civil war the the the musical title puts it all together. I'll Chicago farewell. I was thinking well this'll show up in here somewhere no dot and what it did and I had go research it was written by a professor at Suny upstate New York or something and he was one of my session musicians Jay Unger and I'd had him in the early films like Brooklyn Bridge and the Shakers and and he ran a music camp still does call the Shokhin music festival and it was breaking up one August and this Jewish boy from the Bronx Sits Down Fifteen minutes br pulls out one of the greatest Scotch Irish laments ever and when I heard it I said wow I normally normally faithful entirely to the period music but here's my bridge back to the civil war period because it says pure a civil tune is any of the things like when Johnny it comes marching home or you know Battle Hymn of the republic or the battle cry of freedom whatever it is and it was and it just works. It's a beautiful piece of music again. Again is a beautiful piece of folk music as well folks when you think about that moment where they played that music and civil war they read that letter from that man who died the next day the the next week and you think about him saying I'll be the soft breath on your face or the you see so many moments like that between men and women in here. There's a beautiful songwriting in writing couple that stays together ends up so hundred million police in the Buddha and the way he looks at his best gal even after the the biggest players. Here's in that industry that look she's on the car. I think boy they're still at the mall. They're still in love. It's beautiful in the sun says it's so well she had all the embiid and the drive he said she was in love with this process and she loved that more than anything else and and my father loved her more than anything else. I always a- caught up with that. You know it's too much because we live in such a complicated world and then we unnecessarily further complicated when in fact it's pretty direct the. You love me. Yes I'm so happy. Do you love me not anymore. I'm so lonesome I can cry unbelievable there. It is Ken great to talk to you. Goosebumps can't wait for tonight yeah you are. You're an American custodian of unmatched renowned my friend what you're leaving for the future God bless you. Thank you Dennis. Thank you all right later wrong on number. Give it to watch. I know I'm usually prick soft for me. I watched the I've only seen the first one so far but you know don't try to make your appreciation if it more than mine was the best seat in the Mi- validity is heartfelt human being. It's clearly I do all right there. You've seen many more than I have. I only appreciate it to me. Rogers Guy I don't know anything about and he's like he's like the first like superstardom Hendrix yeah and it's like oh he's recorded one hundred songs and his career lasted five years. He died at thirty five. You know they show pictures of me. Looks like Karloff from tuberculosis and my wife was watching something else and all she hears this reflexive suit flecks of blood on his handkerchief and he drowned on his own blood. She's the hell is it's. It's such a grim story that you know what was the behind the music about Keith Moon well that that would have had a little bit more carousing at night but yeah I don't know I think it's great that like like you were saying country music. It's it's not I know some country music songs but it's not what I listen to but it's so fascinating he can apply his processed. Asto almost any subject including hardware stores and it would end up being interesting he can. I say one thing and closing here folks. Jimmy Smits runs unspoken bluff city watching dollars in the show. It reminded me I don't know if you remember when she was on Salvador Dolly Parton one way to say wait a second streaming show and I allow melting fame as this just the way she was talking about. Her upbringing reminded me of a sketchy did which hosted us in neurons. She was telling a story about like. Oh we didn't have I I was in a rare sketch you're in and she tells all these stories that are mom told and it's like you realize like. Oh that's bonanza and Dragnet and oh my my favorite whether these funny stories about red headed girl who was always trying to get on the stage at the Copa you know her. Mom's stories were all. They must have been watching somewhere Lynn. Can you shut that door. Hot in here isn't it. Let's do that when you want to do for the rest of say so you only have a few more minutes here and I think I know dental implant ski back in Culver City can play some voicemails for you. I hear the Stampe stampe common rolling around the band imagine johnny cash going into San Quentin and singing things and all convicts three thousand of them there not changing anything but all the cops are up above and the rafters with machine guns pointed at them and cash it gets to the point where he says I shot. Oh Man in Reno just to watch him die and it's like an applause all these hard asses sewer for life yeah. It's like the opening notes of born to Ron an man. They have pitches Johnny in there when he was at the bottom of the pill the way it looks like Frank Gershon you expect to be in a lime green question Mark Sudi so that who else turns up a nap. There was a fourth guy not photo photo by the piano. I mistook him for Jerry Lewis and I'm trying to think who it was a very well might have been a young Willie Nelson almost corporate when you without at the beer the braids not the pot. I think Willie get into pot early but I don't know if he got in his earliest Bob Mitchum on the Shawn's Liza which was the media Apres World War. Two mitcham gets popped for pot. WE'RE GONNA join say and today if that happened he'd be Muslim okay. No they don't smoke. Maybe they should could help laden up all all right. Let's go with a voicemail that we had staring at me for a while. What are you doing. Don't take too much because my stomach sticks out. I have to suck it in and I can't even vaguely it concentrate on the show. She's zoomed in only on your stomach. That's all right. EXC voicemail number four would be from Joe. Does she have been good one. Dos limpet. I wish people in the audience could see. I'm doing the what did how did that. Turn Out they hung a the German u boats are boats hung a microphone over the side and Tom not had become a cartoon fish mister limp. Come up and blow into the mic o Germans would thus limpet. That's when you learned dos US was you know as a kid that was the first German you learned because it was his Dos limpet and then you'd go and you'd watch Johnny Weissmuller film where we're at the end cheetah grabs the Nazis Ham radio and steers the plane into the escarpment wall and you hear the Nazi Oh doc geographic in what what does not bus anyway does dust dos Dos voicemail for Jeb Dir Illinois We're talking about awkward actor moment to me as the biggest one Edward G. Robinson and the Ten Commandments when he says to Charlton Heston same there is what do you think you're doing. Thank you Joe your podcast. Where's your Jesus now. Yeah it's pretty unwieldy and it's funny that he's known for that. Because what a deft eloquent delicate I'd say actor I know people are going to say winning mean Edward G. Robinson but God so much of his work. I think there's something called Scarlet Street where he falls for beautiful woman. That was one of those two sisters posters. I think they had a third system. I can't remember but she turns out to be a creep and he's so shattered the the way he falls for and the way she leads them on on and the way she's so fucking the bad guy behind his back and when he finds out he so shattered and some very exquisite actor Edward G Robinson yes you're right. He's was was it norm. Macdonald once told me that he liked Kiana reused but he said he's always he always plays a part where he's a character who lives in a valley near Transylvania. Yeah it's always the same sort of Vampire Dad's upon Health Lucy Bon halcion dead dude norm of valley near ear the central site well. We're near the ANDROID now. Thanks folks thanks for listening to the Dennis Miller option exclusively on Westwood would one tune into new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday on the Westwood one APP Westwood One dot Com and on apple podcasts and remember to rate review unshared until next time. That's the show and we are out of here.

Jimmy Rogers Ken Burns Dennis Miller Dolly Parton US Merle Haggard Johnny Cash Johnny cash Hank Williams Johnny Carter Bob Mitchum depression Mount Rushmore Whitney Houston Loretta Lynn Willie Nelson Kris Kristofferson Lee Lewis
Episode 183

Sword and Scale

1:12:31 hr | Last month

Episode 183

"Soared and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences listener discretion is advised actually turned around and ran back and and he was laughing about it. He's the used the club part of the hammer this season. Eight of sort and scale episode one eighty three show that reveals at the worst monsters are real often. Wonder what the perfect crime would look like because there really isn't such a thing. It's like a unicorn magical unicorn at only exists in your imagination. I wonder what kind of people actually think they can get away with murder face it. They can't be that bright Theresa's seaver sister recalls the weekend of june twenty sixth twenty fifteen. The began celebration of their mother's birthday and abruptly ended as the last weekend the family would ever spend together. We enjoyed the weather the first day. It was beautiful and we swam in the pool and we relaxed in the sun sister's doing yoga. She prepared a beautiful dinner starting to cook for the weekend. And we just enjoy each other's company and had wine and laughed and played a lot of scrabble. 'cause it rained the next day so we just played a lot of scramble. Hanno 'cause much to our delight there was a piano there on my sister. And i played and we hadn't played in years. There was a lot of that these gatherings it was once a tradition to take a family photo together and so all the siblings significant others and grandchildren huddled around each other smiling knowing this family ritual would soon and forever be too painful to recreate as the family. Reunion came to a close that sunday. Evening theresa savers her husband mark and her two daughters drove south to laguardia airport. Which theresa would be dropped off for her flight. Back home to receivers was in fact. Dr theresa verse with a busy practice patients to see first thing monday morning. Mark and their two daughters would stay behind driving back up north to connecticut. Reuniting with theresa's mother and extending their vacation for the next several days theresa returned home just after eleven pm that sunday night and after parking the mini van in the garage placing our luggage near the front. Bumper theresa walked through the laundry room and into the kitchen where she would set her purse on the counter. Undoubtedly feeling that same sense of comfort. We all feel when we're finally back home. After a long day of travel but hardly a moment that past when an extremely loud crashing sound rang out like a gong being hit directly behind earlier that going off the kitchen walls and startling theresa with a terrifying notion that someone else was in her home. She turned around. The large man was already through the laundry room and standing in the kitchen doorway wielding a hammer and striking her in the head with three swift strokes. Suan shock she spun and fell against the kitchen counter holding her arms in self defense but are frantic. Attempts to stay alive were useless. As the footsteps of second shadowy figure suddenly charged towards are striking again with a hammer only this time with decisively more force blow after blow after blow theresa was ultimately knocked to the floor with a horrible hammering overwhelmed her senses until mercifully there was nothing left to feel and our final moments theresa uttered the that would hot or family and friends for years. Why when theresa didn't show up for her nine. Am appointment on monday morning. Concern co worker called out to her cell but never heard back not knowing what else to do. She called texted teresa's husband mark mark. Hadn't heard from theresa either and still being out of state with his two daughters and theresa's mother. The next course of action was to call a family. Friend are mark on my call yesterday. Just check dharam calling you today to country. So i know it's early in the morning and you're probably a work and that's okay that work yet. The office is calling and texting can create a true so if you can possibly the house the garage code is one three one. Three under the door opens up message. Great they'll call on ever come over check theresa. Maybe just this week. It's just not like her. All these not be that far away for work. And i kinda normal for me. But for all right i'm rambling. The family friend was returning from the post office. When he saw marks voicemail when he reached the cevers home a knock on the door went unanswered. The lights were on and he could see her purse on the counter so he continued to pound on the door to no avail. He then used the garage code and was surprised to see one of the cevers dogs bounding out of the house indicating that the door from the laundry room to the garage was left open stepping inside the house he called out for theresa but within moments he understood why she wasn't responding on one. What is your emergency friend's house. Now he's out of town. Came here at the second flight. She's on the floor. The okay fine sir. Hold on the line to a moment we're going to have to. They're going to ask for the address. What does he address more margin. What happened my friend. She's a doctor. I'm a doctor. She came home last night. 'cause in connecticut and She was supposed to connect clock. They called me. And i was on my way into work. Sliced one by and their hammer at the side and sees gas impact the head down on making sure three on the way i am so you said you're a doctor. I am I'm out by the health. I go authors in pretty in the house i for. How long does an issue a week for vast in newsletter. Were on office. Has questions and they're going to counting on what to connect. So are you inside. The residence fed. No are not unsteady driveway. Okay and then when you walk inside the house you said. The blood was dryer. What did you say. Dry have issues calls to that. Is the hammer sitting next to her and you had left. It didn't touch anything. No i did not anything. I touched her. I shook her a little bit. And you didn't see anything else. I mean other than i didn't. I didn't work. I mean i'm afraid. Somebody's in the health field or murdered fashioned back of the head. Okay you know i. I can't see her falling or anything like that. That i thought my god. She's like breath for ten days. All hands were on deck crime scene. Analysts took hundreds of photos. Every room in the house was dusted and swapped for dna and every neighbor was questioned about what they may have heard or seen on the night of sunday. June twenty eighth authorities even conducted a line search thirty people wide looking up and down the streets for any items that might serve as a clue but no tangible leads ever obtained even the bloody harry hammer itself only had the dna of dr theresa savers. Clearly this had been a brutal murder but why and over. What if this was a robbery. Why hadn't they taken the nearly fifty thousand dollars in cash stowed in the house. All the expensive electronics were still in place. And even though the seniors had guns and samurai swords in the house. Those were untouched as well. Detectives began interviewing family members and also got permission from teresa's says husband mark to have his cellphone analyzed in the hopes of finding some sort of connection or clue but all they found was shock and grief. These are excerpts from a law enforcement interview with theresa's mother who explains the moment her entire world was shattered. Fans are offs cell from nine thirty monday morning. This mark doctor hasn't come in yet. That's not like her. Maybe she overslept not likely noises. You know she might be a few minutes late. But i you know she was always on time to get to work so now he's trying to get a hold of her. I'm trying to get a hold of her texting her. Listen we're not getting any answers. He's already in tears. He didn't know what had happened. He's already in tears thinking the worst saying mark you gotta be calm and collected gotta see. It's gotta be rational reason for this. She explains to the detective the same chain of events of reaching out to a family friend to check on theresa and the devastating moment. That friend called them back. That's what he called parkinson's mark gotta come home fast i guess. She told her that she was dead. We both up near scream and cry. And i said you can't tell the kids now. The horrible news was left for once the family returned from what began as a wonderful vacation until it a kiss josie was screened or con tough cookie. Every she was sobbing sobbing hard. But you know maybe because she was a little bit younger. She didn't have express her feelings. Scream josie did but now josie. She's so intuitive he's like her mother almost spirit wise. He's not here at the body. But i know she's here's fear you can feel her energy bill eleven-year-old unfortunately theresa's mother was unable to provide any additional information for investigators. I haven't seen any news reports. All i know that she spends interview him talked about throughout the country. People different parts cut-rate so they saw her on national tv or heard about her tv does for she was tried to. She wanted to reach people that i always taught right now. He'll do to resign. I just know. You'll do it the way i wanted her to. You suspect okay. Let somebody was all the good that she was doing. I don't know i don't know. Dr theresa cevers was described by her mother. As a firecracker theresa's sister added that she was loud loving compassionate and that her husband mark worshiped the ground she walked on. She was the breadwinner of the family aboard. Certified internal medicine physician who had traveled the world to address the importance of healing. The body the mind and the spirit theresa head even begin filming a television series called pathways to healing or she would be the host. I'm dr theresa savers. And as i promised you. I was going to be bringing you different. Modalities of healing. I think it's so exciting for people to find new ways of preventative health. This is one of the largest problems with our healthcare system. We don't do preventative medicine. We do reactive medicine and we wait until people are sick and then we start feeding them but just what if we actually stopped and looked at. How do preventative medicine. What might our healthcare look like. Maybe we wouldn't be rank thirty two in health in the world. Maybe be one of the higher countries on july ninth. Almost two weeks after the mystery of theresa's murder made national headlines. There was at long last a break. In the case while these brutal events had transpired in a city called benita springs. Florida to detectives made a trip over a thousand miles away to another city called mount vernon illinois there. They spoke with an acquaintance of the local police. Chief who stated she had overheard information about a man named curtis wayne right who had left for an unexplained trip to benita springs to fix a computer at the house of friend mark cevers and so the two detectives travelled again this time. Two hours west just outside saint louis to the home of curtis wayne right in hillsboro missouri or missouri as you guys like to say further investigating revealed that curtis had rented a car and left without a cell phone just a couple of days before to racist murder returning home shortly after her death when police questioned him. He denied ever making the trip. But the twenty. Seven hundred miles driven on the retrieve rental car told a different story and it seemed he had not travelled alone when the cell phone records of curtis wayne right were analyzed. The name jimmy ray. Rogers popped up around the same time frame of the murder which was interesting but not damning. It wasn't until nearly a month later at the results from curtis's portable. Gps device had been retrieved. That a major connection was established this portable. Gps device popularly known as a garmon not only traced all of the stops criticize rental car made over the course of that weekend in june but the device had also been linked to an email account jimmy rodgers now at g mail dot com. Everyone calls gymnasium. And all this. And you kidding me because uh News yes you heard that right. Jimmie rodgers was known to his friends as jimmy the hammer. This nickname was proudly listed on the man's facebook. Page for christ's sake before it was deleted. What you're hearing now is a law enforcement interview with his baby mama now. His ex girlfriend tailor shoemaker. Detectives had originally questioned her and jimmy the previous month when they were looking for curtis wayne right as a person of interest but no one was willing to make a formal statement but immediately after the detectives laughed and throughout the course of the following month. Taylor had grown increasingly more confident that her boyfriend jimmy. That's something to do with the murder. Everyone was talking about on tv. Tell about tell me about what happens. After was he what starts out to ride. Went out to rugged around you in there and trenches of water burgundy is really more sinker. I want so he drenches. The phone took down her award in the water fountain. Cussin' into five pieces. I didn't see he's told me that i stopped out. Should go some so what avenue. Koreans sound highway as work. I'm not sure what it's call. Phone has metro his face. Did you you just as they continue. Driving towards taylor's mom's house. Jimmy handed her a rolled up towel that contained a dark blue jumpsuit and a box of industrial latex gloves and instructed her to throw the items out the window a steep yes as earth from passenger seat. And why don't you specific spots for another room a house. you don't find it soon so on a late exhaust tired raising yes. Salad should be went again. What gloves. I love stirs to clarify as they passed over a bridge. And on the way to taylor's mom's house jimmy instructed her to throw the jumpsuit and gloves out the window and into the river but taylor was distracted from how odd jimi was acting but also because she had found out. She was pregnant with. Jimmy's child by the time his instructions registered. They had already passed over the bridge meaning when she threw the items out the window. They didn't land in the water. But instead just off the side of the road still would anyone pay attention to a dusty old jumpsuit crumpled on a lonely stretch of highway a night later while lying in bed. together. At taylor's. Mom's house taylor started reconsidering jimmy strange behavior since returning from his impromptu trip to florida new i did actually rose after. Us came. I knew that he has to do it. And we online and then he said yeah. I guess our life. Here's a receivers. Dr those as did you shooter. And he said how. How's your killer. Me is a little and that side with. He said taylor stopped asking questions after that then when detectives had contacted her again he was terrified asking for protection in exchange. She was more than happy to take them to the exact locations where the crime scene items had been thrown out the window. Luckily for everyone well maybe not for jimmy. They were still there. The jumpsuit had been there for weeks exposed to the elements and even run over by a lawn mower. Still the fbi. Trace evidence unit was able to recover a hair from the jumpsuit which matched to hair plucked from jimmy. The hammer and corroborated taylor story added to this of fiber from the blue jumpsuit. Matched a blue fiber that was found on theresa cevers body bingo today. We're very very pleased again. Eight weeks and a few days later to announce the charges have been filed out of state against jimmy. Rogers jimmie rodgers will be charged in the death of dr cevers. I want to emphasize that this is very much very much. An ongoing and active investigation the public s. We thought early on was never in jeopardy. We recognized early on as i said early on that this was a We believe that targeted set of circumstances and that remains the case so We're very pleased. I'm very proud again. It was a great team effort. And one that i've not seen in my time here both sheriff or prior as a member of the sheriff's office for many years and i've talked to many many people Too big a really big deal. It's a big deal as you know we've got a lot of work to do and we're going to get back to work right now. Thank you jimmy. The hammer was clearly. No criminal mastermind. He was twenty five years old raised by his brother after his schizophrenic mother committed suicide and before their father died. Jimmy was charged with a felony conviction after driving his dad's high-performance transam one hundred and fifty miles an hour and not stopping for police. Jimmy was supposed to join the military as his older brother had but he just kept drinking and doing drugs instead but looking jimmy. You wouldn't know he was the cold blooded killer. He looks like your average burnout pudgy with a bad haircut and dorky glasses. He's a boy really one who was forced to grow up too quickly. And this is. The understatement of the year made a lot of really bad decisions. But he wasn't the one who planned the murder of dr theresa cevers. He surely participated in it for sure but prior to these events. He didn't even know who she was. In truth he was just a hired gun or a hired hammer. In this case the men who called him up who knew jimmy had been involved in people's deaths and would actually go through with this. Very terrible crime was the computer. Engineer mentioned earlier. Curtis wayne right. Curtis and janet had been casual friends for a couple of years since first meeting and prison. The kind of friend you have a couple of drinks with or barbecue with or you know brag about hammering people with but curtis wayne right had another friend. The type of friend. You confide your most troubling secrets to and the type of friend you do. Anything for that friend was mark cevers. The out of town husband who supposedly worshiped the ground. His wife. Dr theresa vers walked on but had been secretly planning what should have been the perfect crime. Conference tournaments are tipping off. Bubble teams are making their final push. Top seeds are preparing for what they hope is a long run draftking sportsbook. America's top rated sportsbook app is putting new customers in the center of the action. Bet four dollars on an underdog when two hundred and fifty six dollars if they win. It's that simple. That's bed four dollars on an underdog in select college basketball games and if they win you collect two hundred and fifty six dollars. The bank is open. Download the top rated draft king sportsbook app and use code art. Nineteen when you sign up to turn four dollars into two hundred fifty six dollars at the underdog of your choosing pulls off the upset. That's code art. Nineteen for a limited time. Only draftking sportsbook must be twenty one or older virginia. Only new customers only restrictions apply see draftkings dot com slash sportsbook for details. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem. Call virginia problem gambling helpline at eight eight eight five. Three two thousand five hundred. The word d'appel ganger is really a combination of two german words d'appel which means double and ganger which means walker crippling enough together. The word has an almost mythical quality to it twins strangers ghostly double her an evil alter ego it may also be a personification of death which in this particular case seems to really hit the nail on the head mark savers and his high school friend. Curtis wayne right could very easily be mistaken for one. Another with the exception of their heights. They seem to share identical features. Same bald head. Same not same glasses. There's a wedding photo. Where is helping curtis with his tie and in their matching cornflower. Blue shirts you honestly have to do a double take before you realize it's not just a man in the mirror. Seriously google the phrase mark savers. Curtis wayne right wedding. And you'll see the picture i'm talking about. Don't worry i'll wait and three two on. I think you probably had enough time there to google that and see what i'm talking about weird right. These men are not related but the planning and execution of his heinous crime was carried out by two conspirators. Who shared a bond. That was clearly stronger than family. It's like the old saying if you want something done right do it yourself or hire someone. That looks exactly like you to do it for you before we return to the night of. Dr theresa cevers murder. We have to go back two months. Prior we briefly mentioned that after theresa was killed her husband mark of to have his cellphone analyzed and at that time investigators found nothing of note. Although there was a text from mark to curtis wayne right sent april twenty nine twenty fifteen that read quote. Hopefully we can talk privately tomorrow. Not about you or angie. But it's personal and quote curtis wayne right about to get married and mark cevers would be travelling to missouri to be his best man or missouri. I know you're gonna email about that getting it out there anyway while this should have been weekend to celebrate the love between curtis and his fiancee. Angie it was instead dedicated to conversations about the lack of love between mark cevers and his wife theresa curtis wayne. Right explains would happen next the night before the wedding. He stayed with us a wheel out of people in from out of town. I should say a lot. We had other couples from how to town so Our wedding was at noon in the park. So we thought it would be better if we got everybody together. Today before we all hung out had a cookout and then that night we had a combined bachelor bachelorette party where we all went out together. to a karaoke bar the night before he came to missouri sent me a text message telling me that he had something personal that he needed to talk to me about. It didn't say what it was said that he'd hoped that we'd have some time to be able to talk privately. It was a busy day. Of course anyone who's been married before knows that the final twenty four hours leading up to a wedding can be a bit stressful making sure everything is in place for the big celebration but mark was eager to get curtis away from the crowd to talk about this important and private topic at some point during the day that afternoon. He asked me if we could go somewhere. And talk privately. So we went back to Went to my bedroom. Close the door were where that can happen. He told me that to so we're having having problems. Marital problems told me that she was having an affair and that they were having financial problems as well Considering bankruptcy you know at one point he brought up. He said a hypothetical situation. Where if kids. We're going to be taken away in. You know in putting into some kind of danger that if i knew somebody that would be willing to help them. We didn't get into the specifics but might take on it at the time was maybe to have this guy off. Beat up something but mark and curtis were interrupted before the conversation could go any further again. This was the day before criticize wedding. Understandably people were wondering where the groom to be had run off to the next morning. The day of the wedding mark brought it up again privately. While everyone was getting the tables and chairs set up at the park criticized his bride had chosen for their festivities. Brought situation backup this time. He told me that. Teresa was actually leaving him the night before. It was just that she was having an affair. So at this point it's getting a little more little more involved. Said that she was actually that she was actually leaving him that she was taking the children. Taken a modest state. He told me that The kids were in danger if she took him out he couldn't let that happen. We talked about some different options as far as the marriage goes. I mentioned you know about fighting or legally for custody said that that wasn't that wasn't an option he didn't have it wasn't financially in a place that he could be able to fight are for that just a couple of different things. i think. We talked about counseling i believe. He said that they've tried tried counselling and it didn't work. The conversation was interrupted again. It seemed there was suddenly a crisis at the wedding itself. That needed immediate attention. The food at the wedding was provided by a family friend who owned grocery and deli and in the final hours before the ceremony became apparent that an entire case of meat had been left in the walk in freezer. It would be a roughly forty minute trip to pick up the missing food. And mark offered dr kurtis sensing. This was a perfect opportunity to be alone. He brought it up again told me that she was leaving him. He couldn't let her take the kids away from him and again that they were endanger. Some kind of danger without him there to be able to protect him. He told me that really the only option that he had was far to die and he said that he needed to have her killed. May what kind of help was he asking for. Was he asking you do it yourself or or what. What kind of health could you possibly ask him. This spread for. He was pretty direct. He asked me to i. Could i would kill her or take care of it. I think asap was the term used. So i didn't really see myself personally doing it. But part of what duane that it was asked was if i could make sure it got done so matter of your wedding may second two thousand fifteen yes. Critics was caught off guard and didn't really know how to answer saying the phrase. I'll see what i can do. That was all mark needed to hear to start planning the next steps two days after the wedding mark returned home and purchased plane tickets for himself his wife and their two daughters to travel to connecticut to visit theresa's mother for her birthday and two days after that he purchased a prepaid phone and instructed curtis to do the same thing. These burner phones are given an area code of your choosing and they do not require you to list. A name curtis hesitated for two weeks debating whether or not he was going to be involved but ultimately deciding to ask his friend jimmy the hammer if he wanted to make a little money i got my cell phone my other phone that anonymous cough anonymous phone we referred to him as our other phones just so that kinda keep it straight i got my other phone on may seventeenth and i got it right after i spoke to jimmy i went and talked to jimmy and person and Tell you know there is a gal not specifics. About who are or anything but made sure that it was something he wanted to get involved and he was on board so as curtis explains he and mark referred to their burner phones as their other phones in order to protect the details of their conversation. The idea was that the burner phones would remain turned off unless they received a text with the codeword other in some texts are clever like a hello brother from another mother and others. Not so much check. Other each time one received a coded text. They knew they had to turn their burner phone on and within minutes they received a call from the other to continue their secret plotting market and want anybody else to know if there was someone else involved. He didn't want to know was and didn't want that person no he was. I was an in between person so there was never any direct communication between the two of them. Even though mark jimmy the hammer likely interacted at some point during curtis's wedding neither had any idea of the others involvement. It was up to curtis the middleman to convey any information from one party to another and make sure the plan ran as smoothly as possible. So what exactly was the plan. Initially marks idea was that it would happen at the office at the medical office when when she got off work because she generally worked late and usually come out by yourself. The offices off the road quite a bit. So it's kind of a secluded area back. There thought that there would be an ideal place for a mugging to happen. She had to walk along the side of the building up to the parking lot to get your car. He had me pull up aerial photos. Like from google maps So that he could talk me through what he was talking about. He showed me where there's a there's a side entrance where stare welcomes down. That's where she exited at so he gave me the the code. The push-button code that door so that i could either wait inside the stairwell or the other option was right outside of that door. It was a blind spot where you had to walk past as when she left that door. One of my concerns was with with the office location. His suggestion was to use a gun. And my concern was When i told him he said that she leaves by herself most of the time. So when i when. I told my concern about whether or not. She would if what would happen if she wasn't by herself. He told me that there couldn't be any witnesses. There would have to be collateral damage and killed a person that was with her and i. That wasn't that wasn't an option for me. Bringing a gun across state lines was also not a good option for curtis he was convicted. Felon arrested three times in recent years including a stint behind bars for quote running a meth lab and quote side. No chris allegedly told a friend that is female roommate at the time ratted him out and took five years of his life. He told the friend that he found her and quote took her life and quo and further reminisced about watching the life. Leave her eyes. Have i mentioned this guy was a frigging computer technician and it consultant. I'm never make an appointment at the apple. Genius bar again marks idea. Was that if it was going to happen at the house that you know that he thought that making it look like she. She came home and interrupted a burglary in progress. Or something like that. So i think the weapon would be something that was at. The house is how i looked at it. So there's we didn't bring any weapons with us armed with literally nothing other than half baked idea to stage a robbery that would turn deadly criticize. Picked jimmy the hammer up in a rented white hyundai alon tre on the morning of saturday. June twenty seventh and the to set out from missouri to florida arriving at six. Am on sunday. June the twenty eighth curtis asked jimmy not to bring a cell phone but they were on the road when he realized jimmy hadn't listened to him. Jimmy had also procured to navy blue coveralls from his place of work and had also brought industrial latex gloves along with duct tape so they could take the cuffs of their arms and legs to prevent any evidence from being left behind by day. Jimmy the hammer worked at a lead disposal plant and was very well aware of how to avoid contamination but during this entire road trip. They still didn't talk in any more detail about what exactly they would do. Once theresa savers came home. Sure mark called the night before to make sure they had the garage code but there were still a ton of variables including the fact that jimmy had never even seen the layout of the house when they arrived at six. Am in the morning. The neighborhood was quiet. They hadn't suited up yet but they did wear gloves. We were only there about five minutes but guess there was a little poking around in the house. The main reason we were there was to check out like the fence line doors. Mark had explained curtis that there was a fence. They could jump over that. He had trimmed the hedges in advance so no one would get scratched and leave. Dna evidence behind but upon seeing the fence. It was clear that the area was just too exposed. Instead they entered through the garage initially looked around in the garage. Jimmy was kind of poking around stuff found a hammer on it. In one of march toolboxes made a accrued joke about being treated destiny. Made a hammering criticize trails off here. But if it's not clear he says that upon entering the garage jimmy came face to face with his namesake. A hammer it was destiny. He joked and proceeded to make a hammering motion with a sinister grin. Curtis knew that marks mom would be coming bhai at some point to feed the dogs while the cevers were out of town so they quickly finished their scouting mission and made sure the pets were familiar with them so they wouldn't be barking when they came back later that night then the rest of the afternoon. The final hours leading up to this vicious murder. The guys did what anyone coming from. Missouri to florida would do check out the beaches. Of course. initially we went down to the beach down benita beach and market showed me at one point that there's these small parking lots that you can park in for free. They hold. maybe. I think it's like six cars or something. They're probably private odds but with their speech access there. You don't have to park on the main beach and it's got trees so it's shaded. I think we actually went down there and took a little nap a couple of our nap while it was still early. I had actually brought. I brought like a little gym bag. Had a change of clothes in a towel and things in it. So i knew that we were going to end up spending time down at the beach because you know in a crowd of people. You don't stand out. Jimmy hadn't brought any clothes or anything to the beach with so he wanted to go to walmart so about ten thirty. We decided we were going to go to walmart. I did a search for it on the garment and found the nearest line. Part of what was bought at the walmart was. Jimmy need clothes. I think he ought Shirt for taylor. But some some towels trash bags wet wipes some of which were used during the murder and then there was a small pack pack Which actually. I got that. Because i used backpacks as a tool i mean for computer stuff cables all that stuff and then we have kids that live down. There always needn't backpacks for something. And then i also bought a pair of water as they were on sale. Just an impulse buy just an impulse buy pay. It was on sale. Can you blame them. Lot of causing trae shen put into beat a tire but still no specific plan for the horrific crime they'd be committing that night by all accounts it sounds like they were just going to try to wing it and hope for the best. We should have been better prepared. We weren't we're not very good at it and now we reached the night of the crime if the story has already begun to remind you of the world's dumbest criminals brace yourself curtis and jimmy returned to the cevers home around ten thirty pm. They entered through the garage door and then stepped into the side yard to begin suiting up in the navy blue coveralls. Jimmy had stolen from work. Curtis also wore a hat as well as the water shoes. He'd gotten on sale at walmart earlier. That day curtis thought it would look more like a break in if pride the side door open. Remember the only quote unquote plan. These guys agreed on was to make it look like teresa had stumbled into a robbery and progress but when police ultimately saw the door was unlocked. The fractured door frame was just confusing. I never looked for a weapon I know that there were things now. Mark lex guns and they're probably in a safe. I never even looked for him. I don't think jimmy did so. I mean we really weren't looking for weapons. I assume that we were gonna use like a knife or something. That was there at the house. But it wasn't i guess to find the final plans hadn't formed yet. We still thought we still had a little more time to solidify. That rather than rely on. A last minute improvised weapon. Curtis brazenly assumed his hands would do the talking. But if you can believe it. According to court records curtis commonly posted that he was a ninja and knew how to disappear. My intention was to. This may sound strange to to base to put her in a chokehold which isn't choking somebody but it's it's cuts the ball off so the person passes out pretty quickly. I competed martial arts competition fighting. So i mean i. I was exposed to a thin practiced a lot with a lot of different people. So i had a lot of exposure to different kinds of martial arts stuff so chuck norris over here. Thought he would put theresa chokehold and then after she was unconscious he would stab her to death. Move her or whatever else they needed to do without her fighting or yelling. I didn't see it being such a violent situation. So i thought that we would have had plenty of time to do to make it look like a burglary or whatever after after the fact he thought they would have plenty of time but paradoxically he also couldn't remember what time teresa's flight was getting in as i was thinking about things i i thought that it would be a good idea to probably be able to check to make sure the flight was on time or delayed or just to make sure but mark at one point had told me to flight information but i didn't write it down and i couldn't remember All i felt like i needed to know is the time she was going to be there so it was an afterthought that i maybe it would be a good idea to check it but i. I couldn't remember the information that jacket i had sent an email to mark obagi mail disguised email to try to ask him what what information you know what they were coming in on her son But i didn't get a response back in time. What curtis had remembered was the time. Eleven twenty five pm but therein lies the biggest mistake of them all. Yeah there was an unfortunate misunderstanding. I he built a twenty minute drive from the airport to the house into that time when he told me eleven. Twenty five so. I thought that's when she got to the airport. Because eleven twenty five kind of a specific number to pull out. It sounded more like an airline arrival time. But he told me that that's when she would be in he meant that's when she would be home. I thought we still had at least twenty minutes. In fact teresa got home even before eleven. Twenty five pm jimmy. The hammer was milling about somewhere in the house. And curtis so surprised. He was literally standing in the middle of the garage admiring marx motorcycle. When suddenly the overhead light popped on and the garage door started rolling open. When i came on i i. I didn't want the headlights to hit me. There is a it seems like there was a pile of boxes or something may be right there with the motorcycle. The boxes were blocking him from the headlights of the family minivan but he was still totally exposed on the other side. I stay down. But i i couldn't. I was kinda trapped. I couldn't really go anywhere at that point. He couldn't see theresa but he could hear her getting out of the van dragging her luggage around and leaving it at the base of the two little steps leading into the laundry room. I panicked where i was at. I was afraid that if she stopped when she opened the door and sadder purse down and turned around to grab her bag. Her luggage she'd been looking right at me. I panicked. I jumped up and followed her into the house. Curtis claims that in this moment he came across a hammer on the freezer chest sitting just to the right of the laundry room. This was a second hammer. Not the one. Jimmy had been joking about earlier that day and it was it was just. I don't know it wasn't thought through. I just grabbed it even when i had it. I still intended to use my hands. But it was a backup. Critics continued creeping in behind teresa. Who was completely unaware that these would be her final moments but in a scene straight out of a bad comedy curtis effectively exposed himself in the most forehead slapping li stupid moment of all time at that point that i caught up to her. She was right at the countertop right before that. There's a dog dish on a stand because the dogs are older dogs and so they don't have to bend over so far. The third dog dishes actually on understand stand. And it's in that little hallway. And i kicked it tripped over it. I'm not sure the right term. I've i've hit that thing with my foot. I think every time. I've been over there so i kicked that stand. The dog. one in water went everywhere. She john and started to turn towards me. He wasn't close enough to put her in a chokehold as he claimed was his original intention instead. He swung the hammer at her head. She didn't seem to respond. Mike i thought that it would knock her out. I've never had anybody with amer before. So i didn't know how hard you did but i have. I have medical problems with my shoulders. And i don't have strengthened my shoulder so when i hit her it was elbow. I didn't hit her hard enough. She she's continued to turn towards me. She was surprised. I i actually think that she thought i was mark. She said why curtis responded with two more hammer swings right after that third the third time i swan on jimmy came from my right side and just started started. Our over and over as theresa fell to the floor down jimmy. The hammer continued his delirious. Rampage smashing her in the face and head with his weapon of choice devastating skull so much that our brain started using out when he kept hitting her on the floor. I i asked him a couple of time. You know is at jimmy stop. You know enough and b wouldn't stop saw. I actually went over there and put my hand on his shoulder site stop. It was just too much. I mean i would have been dead no matter what happened because that was the intentions. We went down there twelve. You're hired to do but now like that. I like i said if if it was up to me. She would have been unconscious before she was kill. Curtis drop the hammer. He was holding when he tried to get jimmy to stop. I thought that he was. He stopped at that point. I turned around. I walked. I was starting to leave the kitchen to go out. And he actually turned around and ran back can and he was laughing about it. He's the use the club part of the hammer. Jimmy struck theresa one less time a sickening. Final fuck you. For no good reason that was now clear that the ruse of theresa's stumbling onto a home invasion would never pass and any plans to steal things from the house. Were completely out the window that made it impossible. Look like anything other than more. It was even a walk and robbery. Wouldn't be that brutal. Curtis and jimmy drove straight back to missouri stopping only for gas and at one point but trucker's rest stop there. They cleaned out the car and split up to two separate dumpsters to deposit evidence including the coverall jumpsuits. They'd worn or at least that's what curtis did. You may recall that jimmy. The hammer stupidly brought everything back home with him asking his girlfriend to throw it out the window. Only after police it started to question him. Guys a real real winter. It wasn't long after. Jimmy's arrest that a warrant was issued for curtis wayne right. Detectives took active measures to locate and arrest curtis and he was found speeding towards the north county. Line of hillsborough when a traffic stop was conducted and he was taken into custody without incident. Curtis who had previously denied all involvement was shown the incriminating other phone texts suggesting he and mark savers or secretly communicating and detectives explained that if his friend mark had intentionally involved him in a crime. Now is the time to explain the situation. taking one. Murderers word over another is one thing but proving it is an entirely different challenge and by the time. The third co conspirator and ultimate mastermind. Mark sievers was arrested. Eight months had passed from the night of theresa's murder but finally the answer to teresa's question that night why would at long last be answered In the early days of the investigation before any suspects were known a funeral was held for. Dr theresa's cevers in attendance. Was of course the grieving husband who had secretly asked for his wife's death even stranger. So was curtis wayne right who had rented a second vehicle in missouri and taken a second road trip to florida. Only this time to show support for the family. He had played a direct role in destroying soon. Much arrogance displayed over a crime so disastrously and completely botched while these two men were no doubt able to muster a few tears for the mourners in attendance. They probably both couldn't believe their luck that they had actually gotten away with it. But thankfully there are people smarter than these two idiots working in digital forensics. They may have thought they were being clever with their other phones. But after months and months of researching and filtering an interesting cell phone tower pattern began to emerge to simplify. If you take the tower location the phone number itself and the time the call is placed together gives you a clear picture of when and where a certain phone is being used both mark and curtis were. At and t. users for their everyday phones so investigators figured the cell tower information from that network was a good place to start. And wouldn't you know it whenever the tower would register a hit from someone's public phone minutes later they're burner phone would ping on top of that. Both burner phones were activated in may stopped in june and primarily interacted with one another while it would be impossible to prove the content of these secret conversations. This cellphone pattern was irrefutable. Proof that mark and curtis were in communication with one another and that they didn't want anyone finding out about it just another strike against marks defense that he had no idea his best friend was planning to murder his wife figuring this all out. Needless to say was an extremely laborious task but watching mark cevers flanked by reporters as he's put into the back of a squad. Car makes it all worth it. Be as i said early on we would not leave any stones on turn. Our people work tirelessly. On this case. I've maintained all along that It was an active ongoing investigation. I think everybody has since the media and our community that this was very much active in. Very much ongoing. But i don't think you realise nor does our community realized the extent of investigation and effort. That went into this case. As you've seen marcy is going to jail right now. He's being charged with second degree. Murder charges may change. That's up to the state attorney's office. Of course we want to be respectful of prosecution. Phase of this has also done a great job with the story the latter part of this investigation. And we'll continue on from here. I do anticipate that this brings closure to the case. I'm not indicating that there's anything really further to do at this point we were after mark savers We got our man and and we're very happy for that confession. I'm sorry you have any confession or you can speak to that specifically tell us how he reacted when you arrested today. stoic Emotional emotion there I'm not a hundred percent shooting blood. I think it might be ice. This terrible crime would be easier to grasp if he truly did have ice in his veins. But the disappointing truth is that mark is a warm blooded human being just like you and me. He's motivated to do terrible things by the same driving factors that up and many of our lives money and sex. The money part was easy enough to trace. When mark stopped cooperating with investigators. He started forming his defense that he had absolutely no idea. Any of this was happening. Subpoenas were sent out regarding insurance policies. For theresa cevers the results from these findings show teresa's death would pay out nearly five million dollars partially shredded insurance policy. Document obtained from marks office suggested. He do a bit more than he was letting on. And when curtis wayne right came forward with the truth of what happened that night he explained how market offered to pay him a hundred thousand dollars for the murder but that they would have to wait for the insurance to pay out. I at the time. Mark provided curtis with six hundred dollars to pay for the rental car gas and other necessities to add insult to injury. The check was issued to him as a business check from the medical practice of dr theresa savers. Curtis intern offered jimmy the hammer roughly ten thousand dollars for his help but as with everything. This dolt was in charge of. He wasn't actually sure how much he was going to get from mark and thus he couldn't really specify how much he'd give to jimmy. Jimmy agreed to this incredibly vague deal with the devil but he had to wait for the payday just like everyone else. A moment ago. I mentioned sex. As another motivating factor. You'll recall at curtis wayne rights wedding. Mark originally came to him explaining that he feared theresa was having an affair and wanted a divorce. The truth was much stranger than that perfect fodder for news outlets to gossip about. But let's be honest. Mostly a distraction from the brutal murder at the center of it. All eight charming couple established dr a picture. Perfect family from the outside behind the doors. Jarvis wrote another story was playing out documents. Appear to show mark steve. I kept a sex long part of it every day. Itinerary explaining when how and where the couple would have sex sometimes other partners they had sex with this one from july twenty fifteen reading sex after dinner with two other people. Another reading ti- times to sex me at times three that a familiar name wayne enters the bazaar calendar toward the end. She mentioned wayne. She really enjoyed having door open. in town. then tax in logs became darker theresa becomes short even angry swearing at mark on june thirteenth. This is expletive that you laughed and did not tell me. I should leave you here without a ride home. And this taxed. After her death proving sender knew nothing of the husband suspected plan to murder his wife telling mark. Don't blame yourself looking through tax. Marcy vers also came close with a woman. It's obvious their relationship was sexual. And at one point mark says that he loves her. The last time mark told theresa he loved her and a text was about two months before she was murdered. Curtis wayne right eventually. Entered a plea agreement. He will only serve twenty five years for his role in therese's murder and only because he co-operated and gave multiple sworn testimonies under oath the verdict for jimmy the hammer which finally came in december of twenty nineteen was a bit more as the judge stated conflicted. He was found guilty of murder as a principal but without a weapon even though the evidence showed a weapon was clearly used the judge in this case there is the jury perhaps felt. Jimmy was taken advantage of because he was younger. Nevertheless the judge recognize that jimmy picked out the navy blue coveralls. He brought the duct tape and he drove all the way to florida with plenty of opportunity to back out and turn around jimmy ray. Rogers was rightfully sentenced to life in prison. The trial of martha vers immediately followed the trial of jimmy. Rogers mark was not only sentenced to life in prison but the jury also recommended the death penalty still. It is only a recommendation. It's up to the judge to make that decision. At a separate court. Appearance in january. Twenty twenty mark savers made a plea for his own selfish life still denying his involvement in the crimes that the prosecution successfully proved he committed four and a half years earlier. The jury found me guilty. Then isn't of all charges as i've maintained since his heinous crime took place l. of my wife teresa and her two daughters josiane carney with all my heart. Our girls have tragically lost their mommy and now they're about to as well therefore i respectfully ask the court for life is not to compound their loss and suffering and grateful however the decor can only determine my fate on earth. Oh my soul is in. God's hands and god knows the truth. I cannot feel remorse for something. I had absolutely nothing to do with am deeply saddened and forever heartbroken to say the very least was taken from us. Theresa is my soul mate. I will miss her. Embarrassed our memories until we are reunited in heaven. Until then i will find this wrongful conviction until proven innocent instead free to rejoin my family during the formal sentencing judge bruce kale who oversaw the proceedings of both jimmy and marks cases replied to mark's proclamation of innocence to just make a couple of comments about your statements here today mr segers a jury of twelve have found you guilty as charged to you are guilty. You do get an automatic appeal to the florida supreme court on formula that at this point in time as well. I judge people's actions. I don't judge people. Seoul says for somebody else to do. Mark cevers was sentenced to death and as he vowed in his statement he continues to appeal. What he calls a wrongful conviction. He also expressed concern over the well being of his two daughters josie and karmi too little too late after marks arrest. The two cevers daughters were initially placed with a non relative caregiver. The two grandmothers theresa's mom and mark's mom that engaged in a custody battle the former claiming the two young girls had suffered severe psychological emotional trauma. As a result of their father's actions. Mark was still allowed to contact his daughters from behind bars and an hours of recorded calls from prison. Mark is heard. Coaching his daughter's to turn against theresa's mother in favor of his own. But if there is one instance of right overpowering wrong in this story. It's that teresa's mom. Mary and groves was ultimately granted custody in her impact statement marianne recognizes that. The two young girls have been robbed of their remarkable and extraordinary mother. A brilliant doctor who's own statement to the world was quote being healthy. Is your choice getting you. There is my passion in a world. That increasingly seems more and more insane. It's terrible that such a positive force was destroyed for such trivial reasons but even in death we can learn from the lessons. She tried to impart while she was alive. Addressed the body the mind and the spirit and and live a life of generosity and compassion. that's gonna do it. But if you like the show join plus. It's five dollars a month. If you believe in the fifty dollar minimum wage podcasters need minimum wage to help out our whole staff. Here give us a hand five bucks a month you get all kinds of plus content stuff gets soared scale dot com slash plus. Find out all the details. See there and stay safe. Mike mike mike I'm a new listener. I'm a true crime fan. If they're listening to true crime knock off. And i just discovered your show a couple of months ago and i say i always agree with you politics but what i can say is that your talent is undeniable. The way that you give light to these stories and the victims and your empathy for situation your research abilities interview ability. I think you're great. And i don't care what you call six our because as far as entertainment value and the value that you're bringing to the world that's healthy story that to be told using that so thank you so much Straight from detroit. We appreciate to keep up the good work. Two conference tournaments are tipping off. Bubble teams are making their final push. Top seeds or preparing for what they hope is a long run draftking sportsbook. America's top rated sportsbook app is putting new customers in the center of the action. Bet four dollars on an underdog when two hundred and fifty six dollars if they win. It's simple that's bed. Four dollars on an underdog in select college basketball games and if they win you collect two hundred and fifty six dollars. The bank is often download the top rated draft king sportsbook app and use code art. Nineteen when you sign up to turn four dollars into two hundred and fifty six dollars if the dog of your choosing pulls off the upset. That's code art. Nineteen for a limited time. Only i'd draftking. Sportsbook must be twenty one or older virginia. Only customers only restrictions apply see draftkings dot com slash sportsbook for details. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem. Call virginia problem gambling helpline at eight eight eight five. Three two thousand five hundred.

theresa curtis wayne jimmy curtis mark cevers Jimmy mark taylor Curtis wayne dr theresa savers missouri Dr theresa cevers teresa Dr theresa Curtis Bumper theresa mark mark connecticut
Let It Roll: Politics Boxed Merle Haggard Out Of Crossover Superstardom

Rock N Roll Archaeology

52:48 min | 1 year ago

Let It Roll: Politics Boxed Merle Haggard Out Of Crossover Superstardom

"Welcome to let it. Roll the PODCAST. About how and why popular music happens hosted by Nate Wilcox? Follow the literal podcast on twitter. At let it roll. Cast CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE. Let it will podcasts. Dot Com let. It roll is a Pantheon podcast. And you can listen to all the other. Great Pentium podcasts at. Www DOT PANTHEON PODCASTS DOT com today? Nate welcomes author. David can't discuss Merle haggard and his books the runnin. Kind Natan David. Grapple with the factors. That made haggard. One of the great country superstars but prevented him from crossing over to pop audience. The way Johnny Cash Willie Nelson Dolly. Parton Day pop in those ear buds in joy. Sagamore Joe's Nate Wilcox and today. We're joined by. Debbie Cantwell author of Merle Haggard. The running kind David. Welcome to the show. Hi Nate and start this. Additionally has focused on sort of the cultural technological and business aspects of music with a lot of emphasis on you know what factors made somebody a superstar. What can things inhibited? Somebody from being a superstar and your books a little different in that. It's a critical analysis of Merle haggard as an artist with a heavy focus on the lyrics. But the reason I think this book is perfect for our show is that Merle. Haggard is somebody who achieved country music superstardom and had a real shot at pop superstardom but didn't make it arguably because of his lyrics that a fair assessment. I think that's mostly I ask. Yeah he's Definitely did not become a pop superstar because of records like fighting side of me. But I think that there was a moment in the early seventies late sixties early seventies when his lyrics and here's records one of the things just as an aside like I do a lot of you know lyrical analysis of Hagrid body of work in the running kind but I also try really hard to not forget that the music matters as much not more so I think he he. He was making records at that moment to they put him on. You know on the list of people who might become a pop superstar. He had a chance. So there's a lot of countries superstars in that moment Who crossed over Grand Campbell? Johnny cash so on So yeah but then but then fighting side yeah but then fight inside but and I'm glad you mentioned the music but you know James Burton among others offices famous Elvis side man in the Las Vegas years as well as Ricky Nelson's guitarist played a role in rural haggard and the records great of a great bands. Great Arrangements. And I definitely don't want to give that did that. You're only talking about 'cause you definitely paid out subsitute respect but right there in the opening in the Intro to the book you talk about one damned song as a dominating the Merle haggard legacy in the popular consciousness. Tell us about Okie from Muskogee and how it came to overshadow the rest of morals work. Yes Oh if we're if we're thinking about is in terms of how it overshadows why can't before so think about what came before Merle haggard is just had a series of Country Number One And songs that have kind of a country pop Real to them. That could've been pop hits but weren't songs like Mommy tribe especially seeing back home Mama's hungry eyes working man blues It's besides silver wings which is one of the most beautiful country pop records You'll ever hearing your life and all of these things are sort of you know establishing haggard as a songwriter and record maker that people who aren't country fans they're paying attention to even I think both rolling stone and life magazine at the time made the argument that you know if pop stations would placing back home. Then it would be a huge it. They didn't And then okay came out which did become a very minor. Pop hit so. I don't know how much you want me to go into the history of that particular song. I WANNA come back to that but I just wanted to get that point in there. That Merle's opera is overshadowed by one song. I WanNa get to the whole genesis of that song. Run and the right time and place and let's pull back a little bit and and there's one more question I asked before we get into this sort of historical narrative and start going in chronological order and the second question is the books called the running kind. Why did you pick that song? And what is it about that song that you feel is definitive or the right song? I picked to title a Merle Haggard analysis when I think that particular phrase right. The running kind is Really just an ideal sort of summation of what Merle haggard about the line in that Song Where he says Every front door down the hoping that I'd find a back door open. There just had to be exit for the running kind and then idea of wherever you're at you want to be somewhere else is a an idea that shows up in haggard lyric over and over and over again. I think it's a It's associated with his ideas of what he thinks. Freedom is We can get into at a few GAL. Let's go ahead and hit a hidden on the freedom point before we get into the life story. Yeah so I so one of the things just for example. He associated with frequently associated with train song. He's constantly trains. He loves trains You know he catches catches trains to get him to get him gone somewhere else to get him away from responsibility in working man blues He's a sometimes. I WANNA throw my bills out the window. Catch a train to another town kind of a classic idea that if I stay here I'm trapped with in a relationship. I don't like a job. I hate Just expectations from any demanding. Anything up me and so the way to be free of them is to sort of reject them does is a very common kind of rock and roll trope. I think there's lots and lots of rock songs they do. The singing presented very romantically br example. Free Bird No. Where the where. Where he's he's. He's leaving. That woman behind there are other Eagles songs and Allman brothers songs all round men and such and it's all about rejecting these obligations and freedom. Is that rejection? It's moving on for Haggar. When the things that interested me about him is that he does that too but he tends not to presented romantically. It comes off as its own sort of trapped so for example in his in his train song he's constantly saying trains of or the things that are going to give him his escape route to freedom but one of the things about trains is that there you can only go on the tracks. You only go to the one place. It's a predetermined outcome as to what you're going to end up This happens This is comes up again and again and haggard lyrics You Know He. He sings one song that he has rambling fever He's talks and many many songs about how he was born to be running kind. It was born to have rambling. He he's got. He's got a disease and his blood keeps moving on so what is presented initially as freedom is also understood is sort of this thing that he can't get out of that's another trap another prison and one of the things. I value about haggard is that he definitely presents book. Those two ideas not as action. Definitely intention Intention with one another dome necessary complements like up and down good and evil city country which poor prison those two things are constantly always there present out romantically just the way lot is. Yeah and that's one of the things that's fun about Merle haggard fascinating about Merle haggard and earlier this season. We talked to Randy Poe about moral Bucko autobiography and Buck and moral both. Come out of the Bakersfield scene but proceeds moral and buck achieves countries to superstardom. I but other Than Hee haw which is a different thing. Never really comes. Close to the kind of breakthrough into the cultural consciousness. That haggard makes my theory. Is that that buck. Never created a legend. He made a Lotta great songs but they don't add up to anything. They don't tell a story whereas haggard is constantly from the beginning telling a story you've got the theme of freedom which you mentioned and we've already talked about the political thing and we're going to get into the. Mama tried in Hungary is he. He sort of becomes a poet for the Oki's The diaspora of Oki's that move West to California during the depression. And but I WANNA hear we're GONNA play one song and then I'm going to ask you about Merle's relationship to the to the oak and this is hungry eyes. Merle haggard one of the songs where he established himself as the poet laureate of the Oak Diaspora in California covered. Cabin crowded. Davor can stand in this memory. Daddy raised a family live with too hard working. Mom Mama's hungry Adrian and that was hungry eyes Merle haggard which I put in there. It's very hard to pick four songs of Merle haggard. He's been a favorite among my whole life and I picked that one over some other very compelling choices because you call hungry is perhaps his greatest musical accomplishment. Yeah I think I agree that it would be really hard to to pick one but if I had to pick one. That's the one I'm picking I think it it. It's sort of symbolizes all kinds of his strength. It's a symbol of all of his best achievements. It's all it also provides a kind of insight into how haggard worked as a songwriter. I think we have a tendency today to just assume that he is a purely autobiographical songwriter. And he definitely drew. He's almost always writing about how he feels about things. But the events he's describing or not necessarily you know existing out there in the world kind of one to one relationship so in Hungary is you know he's thinking about you. Know growing up in a canvas covered cabin which he actually didn't do He grew up in a box car which is another part of his legend. That has become very very well known It was actually his An uncle and an aunt who lived in canvas covered cabin And he would sometimes go visit them after. His father died when he was nine. And so this. These are things that in some ways that he's describing that song or things that he's observing you know you talked about in the song about You know the parents Hair turn the father's hair turning grey later in the song but of course. He never saw that in his own talker. But what he did see was an entire. You know the the white working class population of Bakersfield and the San Joaquin Valley in those years In in the forties and fifties as they're trying to get themselves established in the middle class. I love how that record begins The way he phrases that canvas covered cabin stands out in this memory revive which is about Oki's but that's not the way he's talk it has it has a very sort of in the distance of former quality. Almost like this is a topic. That's too touchy to to tangle with and so he's coming added cautiously and And then at the end if I don't know how You know if we get to a certain point in the recording the strings come in and You know I think I. I love that song about the O'Keefe that it's almost like you know so now we've gotten to a place where were a little more established we can have things like string just because we want because they're nice and they're pretty and one key point you make about Merle and his relationship with Oki's is that you point out that he's not Tom. Jody the hero of Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath. He's John Ford. The director the movie adapt adaptation of Grapes of Wrath. And that's important to see him as he is a great American artist. Not An untutored Migrant who's expressing something ab just by living. He's an artist. Who's craft in a world? Great world from whole cloth so again it's like He's he's the Oak Legend. You Know People Leave Oklahoma and Arkansas Missouri in Texas and they head out there because of the dust bowl and the depression they go west to California They go west to the promised. Land but moral was born in California. His family had already moved out. There already becomes semi established. His Dad already had a pretty decent job working for the railroad and so when he was born. Merle in nineteen thirty seven. It's like what what to? His parents is the promised. Land Him is merely the place he's always known. And so I think that that has kind of You know that's a an interesting quality about it that he again. He's he's looking at these things once removed. The reason I compared Hegarty John Ford. Is that like forward Merle is not one of the immigrants who leaves one place goes to another he's first-generation he's heard the story of what it's like to make that trip us heard stories and what it's like to experience the classism and the prejudice that greeted the first arrivals and then he's experienced a little bit of that himself because those things don't die quickly but he has definitely wants removed from it another thing. I found interesting reading your book that I didn't know as Merle's relationship with types of rats and there's a point where you reference Kris Kristofferson. It was one of his few peers as a great country. Songwriter in that era and Christopherson was talking about sort of the box that Merle had painted himself in with Oakley Okie from Muskogee and fight inside of me. And how he you know been become synonymous with the angry silent majority and Richard Nixon's culture war and Chris's solution was simple. All he has to do is write some songs about the Grapes of Wrath or Do a concept album about the Grapes of Wrath. But you point out that Mohammed didn't actually like the Grapes of Wrath. Why was that right was I was reminded me even EPA time. He he didn't like that comparison because he thought for some reason that I'm unclear about that Steinbeck portrayed the Oki's as ignorant and stupid and decadent and you know in other words as if he acted as of Steinbeck's book was enacting the stereotypes and prejudices that it was in fact challenging. And so I've you know he's always in his own in his first autobiography he points out. You know I I want you to. I want people to know that we weren't like the joads we did. Well we worked hard and We had pride is the word that he uses there and keeps coming back to throughout his career It's weird to me. I wish that he were still with us. And I could ask him specifically know. Why is it that you think that the jobs are not presented without pride because it would seem as if that's about the only thing they have anyway so he always resisted that that connection and you know my mom was at Oakey who never left's Oklahoma didn't but her brother one of her brothers did join diaspora and worked for the railroading and California in that period in the thirties and forties fifties and her take on that was always about sort of material presentation? She didn't like the jobs either and she. She resented the fact that Oki's or synonymous with basically the beverly hillbillies Jalopy with all their possessions on the top and this was just barely ahead of that crew. It was very important to my mom's family to distinguish themselves from kind of oak assume rural might have a similar reaction. Yeah and I and I and his parents did to one of the Near the end of her life his mother Flossie Hager Given Interview I think to American Heritage magazine where you know. She talks about the their journey out and they're stuck on the side of the road. Their cars overheated and some guy comes along and a on a bicycle who treats really well and helps them out and gets the Mon- further on energy and she comments that we were. You know it was really. He treated us well. He was very kind to us which I appreciate it because everyone else have been treating us like trash and one of the things that I think is common. Among within working class cultures that trashes always other people working class. Yeah so often lumped together And looked down upon by the middle class but most working class people are middle-class aspiring. And so they have to distinguish themselves between those who are deserving of making it into the middle class and those who are trash which is Which is a term of hate speech? I should point out trash white trash. You know it's racist classes both But it's you know the common term I still think it's if it bound up in in in the Haggard Story and probably has a lot to do with with the haggard rejection of people trying to compare them to the joads absolutely in a semi of Scots Irish ancestry. Who didn't really realize it. I mean we would say my family would say oh. We're Scots Irish. But nobody even knew what that meant. And I've seen polling data in a former life. I was a political consultant. And there's consistent polling data that shows when you ask Americans what family what country their ancestors immigrated from. There's a big swath of the country where they just say we're Americans they don't even know what country their ancestors came from. And it correlates exactly with the APPALACHIANS and Oklahoma and Oak Dialysis. So it's the Scots Irish. It's my people and for whatever reason we don't even know our ancestry hints the terms redneck and white trash are used just as often by us to describe ourselves as anything else for lack of better terminology. So there's the distinction there right between. I agree that you know so. I grew up white working class as well here in South Kansas City Missouri from People who'd originally come up from the Missouri and Arkansas so by people with North instead of West and Yeah that's a term that sometimes was used by US Sometimes used by US Y treasures used to describe ourselves but it was done. Ironically it's done kind of like with fingers crossed that knowing that that's not really as I'm just exaggerating and being self deprecating but then sometimes it gets deployed as a weapon at those who we do see below us. Go trying to put you know we've made it a certain way up the ladder so pull the ladder up behind and sometimes it can be fine. Words expressed Addis as well so You know got a lot of them but I want to introduce another song and ask you about a whole nother theme that that as a huge slice of the Merle haggard mythos and that's prison songs and I picked this song because it combines the running song with the Criminal Song so this is a lonesome fusion packet down there tall westbound city. I'm on the run. The highway is my home. I raise a lot of came back in my younger day. While Mama's Apprai- rob would be some Eugene by Merle Haggard and I you know there's a number of these songs Mama tried is another one. That sort of definitive was a special favored of my mother. She would always lecture me. You know what listen to this boy and how Mama tried and she never never shame me by going to prison like that. What what is I mean? Merle haggard as we know now did spend some time in jail he. He didn't turn twenty one and he did turn twenty one in prison but he wasn't doing life without parole. He did get paroled and he got out but he was actually in San Quentin and saw johnny cash. Tell us about about about haggard and prison and his relationship with that. Why was there a slow to publicize that? Yeah there's a lot to unpack there I'm going to. I'm going to push back in one part of your initial premise. In that while on the one hand it's definitely true that haggard is identified with present songs and particularly with him back home and Mama tried right. That's some of the greatest records but he actually didn't record very many prison songs. You'd see I When I was doing the book I saw that in over three hundred sides he cut while he was at Capitol records which is basically like nineteen sixty five to nineteen seventy seven thirteen. Most of those were early and and they're interesting and that they tend not to they. Don't tell us very much about like what life in prison is like that. They tend to be more existential songs. about how it feels maybe to be trapped but not not actually about day to day life in in in prison fugitive is interesting so because it certainly begins to help establish his identity as a kind of outlaw. Some hello right in the sixties But it also reminds us that while haggard is a great songwriter. He recorded tons and tons of songs that probably a lot of people assume he wrote but he didn't. That's all. It was written by Lynn Anderson and her husband I think then Anderson and mature forget Which they wrote partly inspired by the fugitive television series. I'd also point out that it also pointed out that The fugitive I would say that's technically not a prison. Saw back on the run criminal on the run I was trying to get two categories in at once. You know if he's trying to. He's he's on the run again. He's running kind again. Just recently occurred to me but senior back home. One of the greatest prison song is also a running. It's another other running song it's about how can I get out of this prison even if it is just with my imagination. Where where the songs the discreet singers can take me. Yeah it's it's it's fascinating and I didn't realize that until I read your book that that he despite the big presence of the prison songs in his legend and outlaw songs like you say it's a pretty small chunk of it but there's another two categories that want to cover together that are pretty big chunks of his of and that's and that's working man songs and drinking songs. The drinking songs were kind of where he came in. I I you know hit. His first. Big Hit was strangers. All my friends are GONNA be strangers. Which by the way is another one? Anderson saw But then he had swinging doors and the bottle me down drinking songs kind of where he came in his first. Big Hit for national top. Ten hit was All my friends are GONNA be strangers. Which coincidentally was actually another was Anderson Written Song But when he when his first big hits that he wrote himself were swinging doors and the bottle. Let me down those a lot drinking songs of sort of fallen out of favor and country music or at least I should say this particular kind of drinking song where you're drinking to drown your troubles like It's it was he he was. He became quickly expert at it. One of the things that he talks about a lot in both of his autobiographies is how before he'd had any hits he and his His manager Fuzzy Owen. Would you know sit down and go through the billboard country charts so by Song it's supposedly would sort of like just say okay? Here's why this is hit. And he would burn down here about. Here's what strong about it. Here's what it does and I kind of feel like. That's what haggard is green on those early country songs country drinking songs that he has his whatever. He's like trying to figure out the form. How do I have yet? He's a good study. It's when he gets to the fugitive and then the follow up song branded man That he begins to sort of distinguish himself those early drinking songs classic and Great. But they're also sort of There's a lot of other artists around like that. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah exactly And he actually you know you pretty quickly leaves them behind his single stop being that and he turns to what you talk about The working man songs. The most famous of those of course is working man blues Which I probably might say after hungry is would probably be my favorite. It's such a great record right. It's got that like you mentioned earlier. That James Burton was a key part of Haggard Studio Ensemble. The lick that That Burton is playing on that record and the groove that he and the rest of the band Get going is almost immediately transferred always Presley in Las Vegas when he was making those comeback shows in nineteen literally the same band. It's the same band and it's the same groove that thing that always I think people sort of Don't you know here as well today. They might have in that moment And it's just one more way. That haggard was sort of like you know playing around with top potential In that in that moment like Bucko and the Bakersfield sound and you and you go into some of the reasons this isn't entirely or it's kind of an oversimplification but the basic stereotype is that the Bakersfield country sound in the sixties was wilder and closer to rock Richard Drums. A lots of electric guitars and steel guitars less fiddles whereas Nashville was gone country politics with strings etc etc. Like you said that's a little bit overstated. But I think it's generally true and grown up here Merle haggard and I would hear him on the radio and I had a couple of greatest hits albums but Intel. The you know. The day of the celestial jukebox dawned on us and could acquire his whole out in our at least listen through his whole album collection. I never went back and you know through all the first fifteen albums or you know the things. I did preparing for this interview. And so it's it's really fascinating. I definitely never knew that James Burton and the the taking care of business band was backing up. Merle haggard and the next sort of theme or wanted to talk to was his tribute songs that he did a whole album of Jimmy Rodgers songs. He continually covered lefty frizzell and was very clearly an acolyte of great lefty prevail. He did a whole album to Bob Wells but the one that he really kind of fell flat on her. The most disappointed those four is his elvis tribute and real you know reading and realizing. Oh my God. He had played with these guys for years. They played for three years. Why on Earth do it upright on that Elvis? Yeah it's it's it is an odd odd thing it's It's a it's a testament to what a big Presley Fan Haggard was was that he was already working on those presley tribute album before Elvis died And but you're but you're right. I think that that's a pretty doug album wanted. The I'd put it definitely the probably the bottom third of haggard entire career and it doesn't make sense is a huge haggard fan. You came up in Bakersfield scene. Where all those bakersfield bar bands new their Elvis Presley cold could play it hot and you listen to that record and you think my God this is just a dreary sort of going through the motions thing. Why didn't he tap James Burton? Who had been as bandleader in the studio when all those records He didn't actually have the T. Cd Band Backing him in the studio ex- except on Surprisingly enough okay from skokie on brushes and Glenn Harden is playing the piano in the studio version And hardened played onto the tracks but it's just burden but why did he get One of the reasons I'm guessing is that you know. He grew up as an elvis fan in the moment right. He was where he goes to prison. He's it's in nineteen fifty seven and so Personalities already a superstar at that moment right and that's kind of the the direction higher tax on that record as he tries to not do contemporary elvis seventies late sixties Elvis. He's trying to sort of do a fifties all this thing that Fo- fifties does it. Work does get the Jordan airs Like those fifties with Elvis but I would have preferred that. He tried to get like Jd. Sumner and the stamps or you know the backing vocals in the later years. Yeah I sir and and you've got slow go I do before we leave this idea of tribute records so yeah. That is such a key to the haggard aesthetic and two. I think how country music works country. Tradition works as if you if people want to sort of you know have a model for how to ensure that the country tradition continues as we go forward. The trick is always not to make new records that sound like old records. It's to make new records that same sound brand new but that also managed to sound like or connect to the old records right. So that's what his Jimmy Rogers tribute album does. It does not sound like Jimmie rodgers singing in nineteen thirty. It sounds like the album road. Haggar put out right before that pride and what I am. He updated that old. Sound you Jimmy Rogers. As at the at the best of the class because he uses his state of the art sound rearranges the songs. But he's singing the Jimmy Rodgers songs. So that's a great song to go back to. Yeah and then and almost one in a falls on its face and Bob Wills will land somewhere in between those two poles the Bob Willows is what I would on example of a retro album. It's an IT's a new recording. That's trying to sound like an old recording. They've actually leak copied down note for note. The original arrangements off the original Bob Wills and his Texas playboys records. Some of the tracks are so close. That the exactly the same length and Myrtle does Tommy Duncan decides or Bob Wills Decides. He actually says at one point. I'm going to you know. Try to sing. Tommy Dunkin's part on this and by which he means exactly told me Dunkin's part And that's that was the purpose of the record. He he says it's the beginning. Rogers in the wills have spoken. Sections role is by explaining to you why this matters to him and why he thinks that you mad at us on the record he says upfront. You know what I'm trying to do as to recapture that old sound. So that's the the the differences between The Rogers in the world albums is one difference. Is that the former is traditional record in the second of Retro Record. Although I did as you point out have a role in spurring. The Western swing revival with Commander Cody and asleep at the wheel and others and probably influenced Willie Nelson Waylon as well. He did a lot of Bob Wills. Tributes and covers And the seventies as well but right now. I'm going to kind of make a non sequitur. Musil goal non-sequitur British. Because we've got to introduce our next song and it's a big one and it's it's sort of the plot twist the whole episode and I don't know if this idea what release it but but we're going to hear Merle Haggard Doing Irma Jackson. And after this here the sample. David will tell us the story of the Song Armored Jackson. So here's Merle Haggard. Doing Herbert Jackson Bill Feeding from the Mouth World Lover and that there's no way the world will understand that lovers color blind. That's why Jackson can't do mind. I remember when no one cared about and that was more haggard Jackson which I did not know until I read this book was GonNa be the follow up. Single two okie from Muskogee. Tell us about that. Uh Yeah so after Merle has this huge success and get this huge reaction to this song We should probably note that at least in its original conception okay from this was a joke. That was what was inspiring it. Yeah there's a point in the book where you talk about the freakish reaction that they got the first time they played at publicly and an winds me of hearing Waylon Jennings about the reaction to look about Texas. I mean there was just an immediate volcanic crowd reaction inside the two points. I want you to bring out about the extra muskogee that I got from. The book is it was written as a joke. They were passing a joint around on the bus as drove past a sign. That said Muskogee Oklahoma and seventy said. I bet they don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee and to that it's a pretty light hearted song and it wasn't. I don't think moral envisioned it as this is going to be the big one. I think he thought it was just an album track. Maybe or maybe a minor hit. I don't get any concept of what he was playing with it right and as a as I you know. Go into some detail the book you know. The song itself is just sort of laid out there. You know as a joke. We DON'T SMOKE MARIJUANA. Muskogee in the early seventies even more it was already telling journalists the only places that don't smoke marijuana is let's go So that clearly wasn't where it said. Was that Monroe was never a big fan of authority. Figures like college deans. We didn't even graduate high school. Let alone go to college Pitching Woo Manley footwear these. Like sort of deliberately. Facetious phrases Which is interesting because then it becomes okay so if we're making fun of somebody at this is a joke. Who's a WHO's the butt and almost sounds as if it's the Muskogee right? It's the Middle Class Square. Let's Gogi people who are being made fun of my sense is that is that you know it's kind of good natured ribbing It's you know these people. These raised bands people as well and as their brainstorming ideas for the songs on the bus. You know it's kind of a there before the grace of God go. I their worldly wise. Now they've toured the country. They've they're not small town folk anymore So they can you know sort of point out. The little Foibles of their people but lovingly. But these but then when he played it live at an NCO club in North Carolina. I think The reaction was just insane. They made him play this song repeatedly shouting it out. Wouldn't let him leave the club until he played it again and again and again and so he quickly went from. This is a funny song to No this is a very serious song is sort of it. It's against the hippies and in later years and much later He began to explain. The song is saying that was his attempt to sort of get into his dad's head and to say okay. If my dad were still alive today and he saw what was happening in America. How would he respond? And that's not very jokey. That's a good mental and Faithful loyal kind of rendering of it. But I think And so you know so. Which is is it serious is the joke. Do you sing it with your hand over your heart or with your your cheek. Yes I think the answer is yes you do you do all those things and it just the power of Okie I think and I. It's a problematic song Pity the power of oak besides the fact that it's just Super Catchy. One time Myrtles complained about. Maybe I shouldn't have written that damn song and Willie Nelson Replied well if you don't want it I'll take it. It's it's it's a fantastic song just in its own right in in in in many ways but I think what the power of it is that it captures an ambivalent not that it pro this anti-vat but that it captured captures how Merle haggard did know. Exactly how he felt about. Those things was torn Not Polarized but ambivalent and I think there's a lesson in there for this moment we find ourselves in today to yeah and his initial thought for how to get out of this. I mean he he. He liked the song who's his promise song and he was but he was already ambivalent about the reaction. It like you know you described beyond a show with Tommy. Smothers wasn't the smothers brothers. Show but it was house about Tommy smothers and he's introduced as sort of the other team contrast very negatively with sly stallone sly and the family stone who've just blindness studio apart with a big party. The song that ends with all the squares can go home dance to the music and neither Merle haggard is brought out and they literally invoke you know the fairness Mike rule which I can't remember what it's called. But that's back when the broadcasters had ferret fairness doctrine where broadcasters had to show both sides of a political argument and literally said we have to do this because of the fairness doctrine and and you know so moral. I'm sure didn't care for the way he was presented. Like you point out. It was recorded separately. So he recorded the song and didn't know how it's going to be presented in the context of the show but his initial thought on how to get out of this is I've got this great song about Interracial love. This is going to blow your mind. Let's put that out. Why did not happen? You went into this. So that's all happening. The reaction that hit status and then the reaction and the music scene television show Tommy smothers. That's all happening in the fall of nineteen sixty nine just After Christmas he goes into the studio and recorded over Jackson and thinks it's going to be the next single. He told a journalist at the time songs inspired by the film. Guess WHO's coming to dinner. Which is something. I'm actually quite a few times gets inspired to write a song that maybe we assume as autobiographical Biz. Actually he's a riffing on the movie. So on but So He's GonNa put that record out in capital I think specifically what that means is his producer. Ken Nelson you know doesn't want to do it. So there's no we think this is a bad idea Talking about the song A few years later with the Wall Street Journal he actually says you know they told me at the time they thought it was a bad bad idea that people might call me and inward lover And it's right there in the paper and then I supplied about it if I was and I think he just Merle ultimately backed down. I've always been sort of I think again. I think the issue here is maybe ambivalence on morals parties having these instincts for these were at least partly progressive liberal tendencies but when push comes to shove at that particular point in his career it doesn't take too much to shove him back into line I think he gave up. I mean this was he. He just had okie. He's like their cash cow capital country. Division right They've already let him do a Jimmie Rodgers a tribute record he. They already are having him. Work on a Bob Wills tribute record which are not exactly know wildly commercial enterprises so the knocking. Eleni put out Jackson. The other frustrating about it is this. Is that if you listen to that record? We just heard it's beautiful. That would have fit right in on top forty radio in nineteen seventy you know with the credence track Before it and maybe Britain's rainy night in Georgia after it it's it has so much potential. Sonically an thematically and John encouraged him to to put it out like johnny had those instincts to Johnny was one of the few people that era that was able to walk both sides of that line. He Johnny cash and Bobby Kennedy without probably the only people that United George Wallace voters with Eugene McCarthy voters and all sort of had that potential and and you know it's it's one of the great what is if you just imagine nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy Merle haggard drop in the song about interracial that would have blown some is probably one of them a lot like you say capital was worried. It was going to hurt. What destroy what he built and it might have her the country audience but it might have blown wide open with the audience. If you have this in the book I think that he would have had done a story of love about Jane Fonda. In that moment to lose to lose people in the country audience he was. You know he was like God in that particular moment Not Certainly there would have been some controversy but controversy was what you know. Got Him Okey Right. The success there too so it's The thing that I wonder about it used to always think we're what if what would have happened to you know morals career if he had Counterbalanced Okie with Irma as its immediate successor. Instead of fighting side of me and for the time at the time I always thought it would have been like way of redirecting his career but now he's sort of wondering if it if it had been released the way he'd wanted to originally that it wouldn't have been a counterbalance or it wouldn't have been a correction. Is that we would actually here okay differently today. If it's follow up have been Jackson but instead We it was followed up by fight inside of me which is a much more uncomplicated belligerent. Line in the sand chip on the shoulder Tong and so we we. We now hear Okie Completely threw that kind of lends instead of the word. Generous Wins that we might have done it. Heavy released early Jackson next. Yeah absolutely and in two thousand. I was working on a political campaign. I was working in the mayor's race in Philadelphia and with an African good African American friend of mine who is a political consultant where driving back and forth Philly and D C and we'd like to put our IPODS and and put him on shuffling this year each other's collections because we're both big music lovers and we know we're really enjoying the cross pollination and then silver wings comes on and she's literally like nate. I'm I'm appalled by you. You know and and I was like silver wings. Like how do you not like silver wings? And I'm like Oh yeah okie from Muskogee and it's just funny that that you know really painted him. I think you're right. That country had just accepted Charley. Pride and was very proud of that in the late sixties. Because they're trying to show. Hey we're not all bull connor here you know. This is the most south and and I think I think it's just it's as big might have bins and and You know just sort of like the way. I described the way I evaluate. These artists going doesn't quite reach that Merle haggard level because he didn't create a myth and roll haggard doesn't quite reach that Johnny Cash Level of being universally beloved because he picked aside. I also think that I think that's true. Yes I think but I think part of it was that You Know Johnny. Cash and Merle Haggard. Were different because cast tended to be This kind of larger than life figure who You know could Yuck it. Up has a lot to novelty songs. In addition with the serious stuff right He gets explicitly political but he gets the political mostly in ways that allowing to take both sides he. He's like a folk figure who's looking back on the past and recasting it For a contemporary audience but Merle Doesn't allow the audience that distance. So I I think this is one of the things that allow Johnny cash to have that huge comeback nineties that I'm so glad that he did but that Merle is never going to have that kind of a comeback. Because he doesn't hearken back to something earlier he was still so much. Present reminds people In his songs and in his presence when he was with us of those divisions there's a lot of us who grew up You know white working class. You'd like to think that we've gone often become middle class and got educated gone to college and work in offices instead of factories etcetera etcetera. Right and Johnny cash will let you do that. You can do that very comfortably. You think. Kind of come to terms with your working class roots that way. Merle doesn't is not so comfortable he forces you to deal with the Shit that does actually happening In communities in the world and winds up usually involve ambivalent about it. You know being pulled in different directions in ways that it's difficult to reconcile to feel good about feel good artist now. Well I got a lot of joy from listening to his music. It's it's beautifully. Sangre written always beautifully arranged and performed. He was incredulous. Gander stand it. You understand the distinction. I'm making hat. When I say caches the feel-good artists. What I mean is that we can listen to Johnny cash. Do was really ugly stuff but come away feeling is if these problems are surmountable and sure are. They've been dealt with whereas haggard. We don't come away feeling that way now. And as somebody WHO's Scots Irish redneck from Borger? Texas myself I like to think I can talk about this but to me. The the the the narrative of that saying you know he has the okie from muskogee which is which surprises everybody by being this enormous Oughta huge pop hip. But it's a huge cultural moment like it's maybe it wasn't played on pop radio but people were talking about it and people are hearing it and you know it was. Bobby. Leave it a cup. I'm sorry let's leave. It comes in on the fight inside of me. And so he you know He. He blinks on his opportunity to put out the olive branch with Jackson and instead doubles down on the confrontation. And that is so scots. Irish is anybody. Has Wed Read Jim? Webb's book born fighting. I mean that's the the book about the Scots Irish by somebody. Scott's is called born fighting and basically lays out a premise that throughout American history. The Scots Irish will fight. Basically anybody for any reason. You know. It's just sort of like others a fight. You know who we fighting. Not why are we fighting? But who are we find an end? And so it's it's a great American story and Merle. Haggard is a great country artists who expresses his time beautifully. And so I definitely highly recommend him. And we're just trying to parse through comparatively to johnny cash remain. That's a pretty damn high level you know blown past. Bucko and who was a contract in his own right? Merle haggard is way way up there in the Pantheon. Don't get me wrong I'm just you know there's there's another level where no I I agree haggard would be for me if I were going to pick the most important. No country figures post Williams It's it's haggard and Dolly Parton sort of sharing the the throne there And then cash even beneath that the I think there's a but but yes the only thing I'm pushing back on. I think that there's a class difference Maybe it did. Maybe this is the way to put it as that haggard has maintained his An or another way to put even still would be has been limited to his working class affiliations whereas haggard has been able because he's covered rock songs and done this or that and had a TV. Yes he is yeah. He's saw late yet. Cash he is solidly Middle Class Like you save slightly. Yeah absolutely. I'd I'd throw in Willie Nelson in that. Mix with Dolly and Merlin. Donna cast too. But you know we could do one of those and Willie's definitely in the in the Johnny cash since Widely accepted middle-class aspirational. Right Even though he's he's he's a hippie. The hippie overcomes the redneck so dave account. Well the book is Merle Haggard. The running kind it. It's been a real hoot. Talk about it and sorry about all the technical difficulties but I think we've got a good show. Thanks so much for coming on. Follow the letter role. Podcast on twitter at let it roll. Cast and check out our website at let it roll. Podcasts DOT COM. Nate will be back next week. With Irving Berlin biographer. James Kaplan to discuss the great American songwriter. Let it roll. His opinion podcast. And you can check out all the other great campion podcasts. At www dot pantheon podcasts dot com Merle haggard the running kind is published by American books. Please support our show by ordering via the Amazon referral link on our website. Let it roll. Podcasts DOT COM.

Merle haggard Muskogee Johnny cash Bakersfield Jackson Texas Nate Wilcox James Burton Elvis Presley Bob Wills Oki California Johnny Cash Willie Nelson Doll Oklahoma twitter Natan David Haggard Studio Ensemble Willie Nelson Hungary Las Vegas
Episode 4: Animals of the Night

Lost Hills

37:55 min | Last month

Episode 4: Animals of the Night

"Pushkin when general motors says they put everyone electric vehicle. They mean everyone with ev's in all shapes and sizes for all uses hatchbacks compact utilities and crossovers high performance cars and luxury suv's pickups and commercial vehicles all told jim offer thirty new eady's by twenty twenty-five which means that soon everyone will be able to drive one learn more about gm's commitment to an all electric future at g. M dot com everybody in Memorial day weekend two thousand and nineteen. It's a month after my meeting with erica. Preston baudat has been dead for nearly a year. Anthony route has been in jail for seven months and this is the weekend. That state parks thinks. It's safe to open the cat brown again from the time of bots murder until route his arrest the authorities offered almost nothing to the public. No warnings little information. So people in malibu left to figure things out for themselves. There were a lot of creepy similarities among the near misses and the murder the publicly the cops kept repeating the same old story not related at least nothing they would share then route. Arrest that changed. The crimes were all related and not just that one person had done them all. Was that even possible. I need to walk around the campground. See it for myself. So tonight on the grand reopening weekend. I'll be camping out turning off the canyon road. There's a long entrance road leading to a little guard shack. The park employees. Take your money and give you your parking pass. The two people working seems skittish. Are they nervous about something. I parked by site forty nine. That's where scott mccurdy tristan's brother-in-law camped. That's where i'm staying tonight. It's right next to cite fifty. One tristan bodak was murdered. I'm trying not to get creeped out. The campground is basically deserted empty campsite after empty campsite. It's a little eerie. There is a young couple here. They're celebrating their second wedding anniversary. We were just driving up to go camping and we are planning to actually go to los padres national forest but We're news the camping game and did not reserve like six months in advance like everyone else did so we call decided to try malibu creek state park so we'd just popped on an and there's a line of cars coming in but we said like for sure it's packed you know so he pulled up. They're like nope this. They're still suspended. Elementary come and there's no one here so then it was just another the one other camper here like eleven and this morning was just like. Oh you know you're asking the new of any hikes and check this out this idea but don't be scared about the murder earlier just like. What are you talking about bro. I can't do the murder like cats. So yeah it's walking around. I noticed one of those interpretive signs you often see in state parks animals of the night it says camper sleep. The park belongs to the animals. Can you hear the howl of a coyote. The scratch scratch of mice or the hoot of an owl as you walk through the park. Your flashlight suddenly reflects the glowing is an animal. The signed talks about bobcats coyotes raccoons but doesn't say anything about mountain lions. Maybe they didn't wanna start a panic. It starts getting dark so i head back to site forty nine. I pitched my tent in the meadow beside the firepit. I light a fire and sit next to it while i eat my dinner. Take out from the grocery store. There's no interest in sight site fifty one. That's strange when i drove in the park. Workers told me it was already reserved zip into my tent tax tom. I'm fine but this feels weird. I have a sleepless night. Every noise feels to close who rainfalls. I'm sure i feel something. Brush up against my tent the thin wall of my tent. I'm sure i hear footsteps approach and then recede. I'm so relieved. When the sky lightened to gray. I opened up my ten. It's before dawn. lightly drizzling. I noticed that the anniversary couple didn't make through the night and no one ever showed up to claim site fifty one. I'm dana goodyear. And this is lost hills Episode for animals of the night in the morning. I decide to explore a little more. The campground is the side of the murderer. And two of the near misses. Also the place people are. The most vulnerable gathered sleeping guards down. Part of being here is trying to understand. This place that routed lived and this died tristan's ten might have been there just beyond the picnic table or humid. Been right here. Where i am but i wondered if his own underwear his door was. I guess i studied the map safe. Forty-nine where i am save fifty one we're tristen was then. The road curves around the meadow. Fifty four fifty five fifty eight fifty eight. That's where near miss number two happened. It was november ninth. Two thousand sixteen three thirty am a man named ron. Carson was lying in bed when he says his camper was rocked by an explosion. He later testified that it quote felt like a bomb went off. He wasn't hit but when he turned on the light he saw shotgun. Pellets stuck into the wall right next to where his head had been just across the road from site. Fifty eight is fifty seven the location of another attack near miss number three on january seventh. Two thousand seventeen. A woman and her boyfriend were sleeping in the back of her car and they were awakened by a bang between four and five. Am the next stage. She found a hole in her trunk. State parks police recovered. A metal shotgun slug. This is insane. These three crime scenes the camper the car. And that's tent are just a couple hundred feet apart. These shootings happened in a tight. Cluster in the same corner of the camp ground where footpath disappears into the woods. I follow it. It's overgrown with wild mustard and little purple flowers. I'm kind of curious about this way because this seems like i mean no one is out in about four. Am so anywhere would be a place. You could go and be observed the path heads north toward the mountains. I know that somewhere out there. Two or three miles away beyond mulholland highway in a remote and seldom travelled part of the park is where anthony router lived. It's where he was arrested and it's not that far. There are only a couple hundred homeless people in malibu and they fall into distinct categories there the beach dwellers a lot of them living in. Rv's along pacific coast highway there. The mountain men homestead or loaner types. Like rouda who live up in the hills and there are the townfolk who congregate in and around the library and shops. We'll go By the library we can park. We can walk in the legacy and along with the sheriff's department homeless outreach team. These deputies make regular welfare checks to the camps scattered around malibu. I'm hoping that they might have run into route at some point recrossed from the library in legacy park right behind the ultra high end malibu country mart shopping center. This is a spot where a lot of homeless people gather. One of the deputies shows me an app they use to keep a record of everyone they make contact with. This is everyone of spoken to in the last two years. Ozzy anthony route. His dad told me that his son had a library card that he hung out at libraries. A lot in spite of being a mountain man. I take a deep breath. Would you be able to check that database for someone for me out that they've received homa services and so yes absolutely check. What's the name last name. I first neighbors anthony. Okay rouda a few d. There's he did it right. It's when i'm scroll up it'll say did not did not match any client. Okay disappointing but not surprising. Router seems like the kind of person who would have avoided this kind of contact at all costs. But then just as we're about to leave a man named josh crawford walks up to where josh courteous. Mailed here now. He sleeps in a car. The cops told me that he actually volunteered to help. Fight the wolsey. Fire sleep over in the park man and You know kind of given up on life so you know. But i'm curious how he ended up out here. Turns out it's the energy is so beautiful. Malleable is like i say. That's the reason people come here because it's an energy here. It's a you know what he wants to leave like rather sleep on the ground hurl then apartment. Inhale sleep on the ground here around his good energy. How how do you describe the community of people living in tents and sleeping rough and homeless around malibu and welcoming community as it tight it. Is it a lot of loners. What's survive It's all little it's tight-knit it's a lot of loners you got your junkies. You got your alcoholics. You got you people this depressed. You got people that have lost. Their kids made them lose their mind. You know it's a lot of reason. People ended up out of her home a psychological level. Can i ask you about a specific person. If you ever heard of somebody living. I pull up a picture of route on my phone. Living up there only a few online one from the day of his arrest another one. That looks like an old mugshot. And a few from his courtroom appearances where he's in a restraint chair wearing a blue jumpsuit. And a spit mask pitches moves. I think he used to come down and go to the library and because it's like a younger teacher of whom the he's talking about the old mugshot. Where route has a defiant. Old west outlaw luck year. Because it looks like this guy used to be with this Why lady that was also you know. She was on the street but he was a drinker. Like and Yeah oh what a girlfriend. But he was a white lady he will be around every day and he will be with her but this was like a couple of years ago. He had a good tar. We'd into would no helluva player number. He had a good tar with them. And i invite him. It be offered iraq. He's a say things about him. Same unit stuff like that because the headache good guitar. A lady friend. It's so tempting to think of this as rouda. But i can't find anyone who confirm it. No one else. I talked to in. Malibu has ever laid eyes on him until the day of his capture. I'm trying to catch a shadow rods so hard to pin down so hard to place anywhere when he's not firmly behind bars when general motors says they aimed put everyone in an electric vehicle. They mean everyone. There is a whole new generation of people who will soon plug in their vehicles as naturally as they charge their phones. Who will choose to omit not exhaust. They don't judge cars by the revenue engine but by the Of progress this generation e united not by age but by the desire for smart clean and safe to also be fun easy and powerful and his power comes from altium a revolutionary battery platform from general motors that can charge fast run long and fit everyone which means that when it comes to electric vehicles nobody will be left out. Welcome to a new generation that defies convention and redefines. What power can be the start button to are. All electric future has been pushed. And it's gonna be one amazing ride. Learn more about gm's commitment to an all electric future at g m dot com everybody in planning on watching the game tonight. Here's a way to make it even more interesting. Oh is free bed of up to two thousand and twenty one dollars when you place a bed. With william hill sportsbook. Every sports moment becomes even more interesting every slapshot every bucket. Every every play a wager elevates your night pushing you to the edge of your seat gets your heart rate going. Your stomach nodded your goosebumps bumping your faith in yourself rewarded. Oh and with two thousand and twenty one dollars to play with risk free. There's no reason not to get started today. Download the william hill mobile app. And when you sign up you can get started with a risk. Free bed of up to two thousand and twenty one dollars. Use promo code. Pod are f must be president. Virginia twenty plus only terms and conditions apply gambling. Problem call tech support. Shed are confidential and toll free helpline at one eight eight eight five three two three five hundred. Let's make it interesting william hill sportsbook for months. I've been trying to get information from california. State parks the government agency. That runs malibu creek state park and for months. They've been totally stonewalling me. Hi dana. This is gloria sandoval from the firm california state parks returning your phone call. Unfortunately due to the ongoing investigation we can make anybody available For your interview at this time. But i asked for anything and everything. Crime data staffing levels staff lists occupancy data incident reports. Anything that might shed even a little light on what happened months go by between my emails and calls and their responses. After a long wait. I do get some data from state parks. But it's incomplete and inconclusive. The tell me repeatedly in every way you can think of no no. We will not explain what happened. Malibu creek state park between two thousand sixteen and two thousand eighteen. The parks have their own police force. Those are the rangers sworn peace officers with badges and guns. The could have investigated the shootings. I know from talking to sergeant right. That at least one person fairly high up at the park knew they needed lost help. But what were they doing over there. It's impossible to find out the only thing i do find out learned from court. It's pretty damning. The tent that tristan baudat was killed in the crime scene itself. It was never booked into evidence. It was never properly examined. It couldn't be because state parks threw it away. If the craziest thing i've learned about the park is that they left a campground open after have been multiple shootings there then. This is the second craziest thing someone was murdered in his tent in that same campground and you throw it in the trash. No wonder no one wants to talk to me. The only thing i can do is going back to the park. One day i join a walking tour led by a former ranger to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of planet of the apes. Which was filmed in malibu creek state. Park many people burners jewel santa monica mountains. Because of the. That's how desperate i am. It's roughly a three mile round trip from here. We'll just go up the road a little bit to see our first seen location. Then we'll come back and we'll head down into the heart of the park. It's a motley crew of film buffs and science fiction fans and people looking to fill a sunday with a hike in malibu creek state park. We're about thirty minutes in when someone brings up the baudat murder. Oh oh campground unsurprisingly. The ranger doesn't wanna talk about it. But i think it's causing breakout. Well not until we got the evidence. I guess uh he does say that. The killing has significantly depressed attendance at the park and sifting through the data. That state parks gave me. I've learned that the financial impact was significant. Revenue fell by fifty percent a loss of seven hundred thousand dollars compared to the year before. I'm not the park spokesman. No that's for sure. I'm really any more than i read in the newspapers or here on the news and he says he thinks the element of danger has been eliminated. But also that there's still a lot that hasn't been released one day that the hills covered with the sheriff's deputies and they just you know following all these various social trails and i'm sure this guy went off trail as well so the more evidence the better. That's not the how you came. I mean does it seem plausible during the tour. I've been keeping my eye on one of the other hikers. A guy wearing camouflage an make america great again hat. He seems very interested in the murder. Talk i introduced myself. And he tells me his name is lou johnson. And he's here with a boy named hudson his landlady son. We just stopped going anywhere. He tells me that before the murder he in hudson spent their weekends hiking. All over this area that changed. Just the randomness of it was was very troubling. I think because it didn't matters like if you were if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and moving in the wilderness and this guy saw you immortal danger there as we fill up our water bottles. He tells me that one day as he was driving to work he saw that the hills were swarming with deputies collecting evidence from route his campsite. One morning i can around one of the last hairpin curves there and there were police. Cars sheriff's cars everywhere. Ranger cars sheriff's a group of sheriff deputies. Were coming up the road. And i said hey. Is this have to do with the investigation wrapping it up and Said yeah we're disappear. You know doing clean up and stuff like that and you know he said a few years earlier. He tried to take hudson hiking. Right there in that exact spot short hyphen up there. There were animal trails. And i remember remarking while these are. He's really good with animal trails and and this was trailing the grass was pretty. Well trodden. I meet some hikers. Go up here And sort of follows a little canyon rise and there's a lot of big oak trees there with big canopies and i remember we sat up underneath one and he was sort of just sort of not. Maybe you didn't feel good. I don't know what it was. But he just didn't want to hike and he was getting. It was strange. Liu says really out of character for hudson but he couldn't make him go on so they turned back. And you know the thing that strikes me as now knowing that you know that was were route camp was that that's kind of a scary thing we could. If we had gone hiking up in there would he had felt threatened. You know he was kind of hiding out. I read you know. He just didn't like people who knows we don't know and and it just was now looking back i was like wow that felt like a close call for us safety wise and again. Had we known that these other things that happened at that time we didn't know about we'd never heard about any and it just is. It's not kind of frustrating. It's very frustrating. It's creating because this transparency that these guys all take an oath for. I support the police a real supporter of law enforcement and all that but when they pull stuff like this that seems political for whatever reason. It really pisses me off. Liu says the trail to route his camp is not too far from where we are now. He can show me if i wanted. Meet about their when the tour ends we trade email addresses and he tells me he'll be in touch after my visits to the park. I keep thinking about rouda sleeping night after night in the wild with his first letter he enclosed a careful pencil drawing of two mountain lion cubs smuggling i wanna know more about his life outdoors in his next letter he writes. I was hardly ever scared. I did a lot of hiking starving and freezing. I seen little baby bears. Foxes bob cats eagles. There's a spot on the two panga mountains where you can see the ocean. There's a spot on the pacific palisades where you can see to pass. A those words stopped me cold. I just moved to the palisades but he couldn't know that i've been using a different mailing address. It's right around that time. I started having nightmares about anthony. Rouda What if there was a superhero. Who had the amazing power to make hiring faster smarter and easier. Think of ziprecruiter. Like that minus the tights. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free. Only at this special place ziprecruiter dot com slash hills. What sort of hiring superpowers ziprecruiter have well. Instead of fighting crime like other superheroes ziprecruiter fights time by helping you find qualified candidates fast. I when you post your job. Ziprecruiter sends it out to over one hundred top job sites with one. Click talk about being in many places. At once then ziprecruiter's matching technology scours thousands of resumes to identify people with the right skills and experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. No wonder four out of five employers. Who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Ready to conquer hiring. Make sure you go to this. Special hiring superhero headquarters website ziprecruiter dot com slash hills. Let ziprecruiter save the day. Just go to ziprecruiter dot com slash hills. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accepted. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. In depth genetic analysis and real time bloodwork forwards top rated doctors provide you with in depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. They then create custom easy to understand plans to help guide you to achieving long-term health with forward you get unlimited in person visits with your doctor and access to care anytime via the forward app offer. One flat monthly fee. It's time to stop accepting backwards. Healthcare and start moving. Your health forward visit go forward dot com today to learn more. That's go forward dot com so like. When i woke up i woke up. Lay i almost. You could imagine if explosion went off by your like really suddenly. And i don't really know why i woke up like that Because there was no pain or anything so like the bottom of this is jimmie rodgers. Near-miss number one. He was attacked twenty months before tristan baudat dot was killed his agreed to meet up in this shady grove in park. Which is part of malibu creek state park like. I woke up and then i was just like what happened. And all i could hear. Jimmy's is serious. Outdoorsman a trained wildlife biologist who's worked for the forest service. He's telling me about the morning of november third two thousand sixteen. He was sleeping in a hammock. In the park he was on a solo backpacking trip trying to complete all sixty seven miles of the backbone trail in three days between three and four in the morning he was startled awake and then felt something was on my arm or something like clawing my arm which was my initial thought because my hammock was somewhat low to the ground. He tumbled out of his hammock which had split in half. He stood there listening as his arm began to sting. His jacket was torn and when he took it off. He saw holes in his arm. A lot of them. It looked like a small animal had been gnawing on him then i was like it was an animal it had to have been rabbit or something but i determined like any animal could have been whether it was a rabid coyote or fox or just dog or skunk or anything even of rats like they're pretty easy to find especially in this oak leaf litter because they can't move very fast and especially tells me that he ventured very carefully into the woods so i walked without ally down there because i really really about here in the sounds to me i did hear one like that is just a one sudden movement and leaf litter so it like could have been a very small animal moving its whole body or it could have been a person moving foot so i stopped and just stared at where that sound was. I wanted to keep going. But it didn't because i literally thought i don't want to get shot in the face. I kinda literally thought somebody who's looking at me and they probably with that movement or getting ready to do something so i sat there for a couple of minutes. I just said. I'm just gonna pack up all my stuff and leave. He gathered up. His staff walked out of the park and along the canyon road till his phone how to signal. He called his girlfriend and asked her to pick him up. She took one look at his open wound. Dozens of tiny punctures and drove him straight to the emergency room for weeks afterward. He says he tried to rationalize experience. So just none of the scenarios. I kept painting made any sense. I literally just started thinking about every single animal that lives out here and could possibly live out here and see i kind of ended on a crazy thought and i literally determined it was vampire. Bats vampire bats because when they buy the secrete this numbing sensation. So you can't feel it. And then they laugh your blood and it seemed like a superficial wound and the blood. Then one day something unexpected happened around metal pellet fell out of his arm then another and another and it just popped out and in feel like anything and it was just perfect shallow circle that it left and then i found it and it was you drop it on. Glasgow's like did my body. Just make that. I don't think so. And then and then eventually we just a few of the wounds were still kind of open so my girlfriends started like squeezing at it. She took that one out and then we need to get x. Ray and they found four. There were four more embedded in their pretty deep so then i went and got surgery. He hadn't been bitten by a rabid animal or by a vampire bat. He'd been shot with birdshot small shotgun pellets. Used to kill birds in flight. Jimmy shows me the scar. It's about three and a half inches across on the underside of his right arm between the elbow and the shoulder. It's a big scary looking wound. If you look at the pattern army. It looks like they're pretty close but it's hard to say but within five feet is what the police officers actually told me is most likely but the wound isn't even the most disturbing part the most disturbing part is. Jimmy sleeps how he was sleeping when he was shot bundled up in his down jacket and sleeping bag wrapped up in his hammock with his right arm draped over his head. It seemed to jimmy that the person who shot him was aiming for his head after the pallets fell out of his arm. Jimmy went back to the park and try to find someone to talk to someone. He could tell this bizarre story to and maybe get answers came out here and i was just looking around and i found a state park employees and just told them what happened and he told me that somebody's vehicle was shot with the same birdshot And so they're really concerned about it and so he gave me the number for the sheriff. I tried to contact them a few times but they pretty much never revealed much information and so probably after like a couple emails in a couple of phone calls. I just stopped. I asked jimmy affil- indulge me gonna walk. I want to see how long it takes to get from where he was shot over to the campground his game. It's not far but it takes us an hour on dusty trails through the foothills a run fifteen minutes max. We're going under a little sort of ripe burien area. we're gonna right pairing akra from the campground. We walked to the entrance of the park out onto the canyon road. World is cars were shot. You're mrs four five and six and while we walk it hits me how small this area really is going to say one thing because we may not be here again up and down. This stretch of road is where the tree dawn shootings at cars were concentrated. I didn't know that that's crazy. It seems so obvious is all right. Here jimmy's right. It is all right here. How could the sheriff's department and state parks not have seen that. How could they think or say they believed. These were isolated incidents. Why wouldn't they have warned the public the authorities. Jimmy says were pretty unhelpful. Throughout his ordeal taking his report they never followed up. They didn't seem to care but they did say something odd well. They didn't really tell me much because they said that You can actually kinda manufacturer different weapons so like the officer actually said they could made something to fire this type around by even something really small. You just hit from the back. It could have been a hand helping anything. This is about the so-called missing shotgun the gun that was used in near misses one through five the gun that was fired at jimmy while he slept in his hammock. The gun that has never been found from what the cops told jimmy. It sounds like that gun wasn't a gun at all general motors sees an all electric future and a world with zero emissions. A future shaped by a new generation of people who want their vehicles to not only be smart clean and safe but to also be fun easy and powerful and this future will be powered by a battery platform with the range. Performance and flexibility that will enable gm to deliver thirty new electric vehicles by twenty twenty-five with the vs at a wide range of sizes shapes and price points. Learn more about gm's commitment to an electric future at g. m dot com everybody in.

malibu creek state park gm malibu Preston baudat Anthony route scott mccurdy tristan tristan bodak dana goodyear tristen State parks police tristan baudat anthony router rouda legacy park malibu country mart shopping c Ozzy anthony route josh crawford william hill los padres
Late Night Brawl Murder Trial - Part 2: MI v. Steven Washington

Court TV Podcast

41:08 min | 1 year ago

Late Night Brawl Murder Trial - Part 2: MI v. Steven Washington

"The views and opinions expressed in. This podcast are simply that opinions. All are presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law sensitive live topics are discussed discretion is advised on this week's court. TV podcast as the late night. ABROA- murder trial winds down. We look back at the head. Spinning twists and turns witnesses taking the fifth others accused of being the actual killer. Cops accused accused the botching. The investigation will this roller coaster of events help or hurt Stephen Washington's case plus we'll give updates on the unexpected sentencing the of March savers and Harvey Weinstein back in court. This is the court. TV podcast with vinny politics and Encima IR Happy Holidays and welcome to the court TV. podcast my name is Sema Ir. I'm here with with vinny politics. Happy holidays my friend. Happy Holidays whatever you celebrate and I think everyone celebrates this time of year and it's amazing to me that this time a year this late in the year and we are still in the middle of a trial on court. TV I yes. It is amazing because it never a history of court. TV TV. Have we been in a live trial at this time of year. Really never wow our no way come on who do you get witnesses injuries and judges and lawyers all of it because you never know how long a case is going to last but anyway we're in the midst of it so we've got something to talk about today well Yes Michigan versus Stephen Washington. This was a a bunch of young people drinking smoking marijuana cigarettes cigarette smoking the pod. That's my say and Durand other things with that and they're drunk they're high and they're angry and then this I evan. Keener is getting into an altercation Pretty much verbal altercation. Although he I think he testified in shoved by a couple of young women the young women leave he then tracks down the young women and calls his cousins who are female because he wants revenge and he wants them to beat these other girls up up with your young women. Girls would have Sharon crazy. It is crazy and I think and it took me a while to figure it out. But the impetus is really his friend Ivan livens friend Hannah and it all comes down to somewhat of a misunderstanding. Because Hannah was with the Chapman girls and the the Chapman girls they all I guess Lake Chapman. Who is the girlfriend of the victim? She worked with this young lady named Hanna. Hanna was really drunk wrong. They're bringing Hannah back home. That's where they ran into Ivan and have a lake assist who also their miracle miracle and the Lak- Kinda Kinda lay into Ivan and another Guy Cameron. He testified and saying. Hey you guys are bad friends you left have alone and the problem was that Hannah and left her phone in the car before she was dropped off. So you've got but the bottom line is Ivan mm keener right. He tracks down his e calls his cousin. So you've got the Kelly sisters tracking down. The Chapman sisters this big brawl in the wee hours of the morning and Dan the brawl is pure chaos. And at some point someone pulls out a gun and it's not and no winner shot who are fighting instead dead. ECI Baroness. WHO's the boyfriend of one of the women who is fighting? One of the Chapman. Sisters is is allegedly shot according to prosecutors by Stephen Washington. The boyfriend if one of the Kelly girls say girls just because the young women I mean at this stage in my life they look like little young and that's the tragedy. This whole thing is that they're so young naturalise in front of them and ECI is now dead another young man. Dan is facing murder charges. And all these other people are coming through the court system and the lives of never be the same absolutely a senseless crime and you know I point out said misunderstanding. Fact is because when you're young and when you're intoxicated everything seems to be a lot more important and I think the Kelly girls thought the chatman happened. Girls Stole Hannah's phone and that's how she was all a part of it and you know. BTW handed indentify at the trial those really was Somewhat of the the impetus all of all of this so the challenge for prosecutors is. You've got this chaotic situation. You've got people who are under the influence of various different things. And these are your witnesses. Mrs And you've got a shooting where there's plenty of people around yet. Prosecutors struggled to find anyone to positively identify by the shooter or people who could identify Stephen Washington putting the gun in his hand. The closest they came was Ivan Keener. The Guy We've been talking about who created this whole situation to begin with he gets immunity not a plea deal but gets immunity. So he's so anything he says at trial cannot and not be used against him and the charges he is facing in being an accessory after the fact. But here's what he says. And the way he describes Stephen Washington and the confrontation confrontation with Si. Did you see the defendant Steven Washington actually pull a gun from anywhere on his body. Did you actually see a gun in Stephen Washington's his hand not really no with respect to what Stephen Washington was doing with his body. Please stand up and demonstrate to the jury what you Stephen Washington says all so it was extended straight in front of his body and what happened was extending in front of his body. How long after observing serving the defendant Steven Washington observe his hand in front of his body? Did you hear a gunshot. Thirty seconds was anything said between the defendant Steven Washington Washington and easily. BARONI is at this point time. Not that I recall. So this case is circumstantial right because there's no eyewitness eyewitnesses who actually sees the shooting right. That's what you need. You need someone to see. Direct evidence eyewitness testimony yes and this is the classic example. I wonder if you ever use this at trial you say to a jury. Hey if I walk in the courtroom today with an umbrella and there's water on the umbrella rela is it fair to assume it's raining outside. That is this case absolutely but I think it's even closer to I walk into my house and and I look out the window and I see the grass and then I go to sleep and I wake up and there's snow on the grass when I wake up. Then I threw circumstantial evidence. Could presume or come to the conclusion that while I was sleeping it snowed. I liked that one. It's very holiday. Ask I appreciate holiday now that they're actually where people that would use the the actual Christmas analysis Santa with the cookies the the sandwich cookies or the or the presence under the tree which you know which is you know. I don't think it's used anymore though it's almost I almost think it's politically incorrect. Use a Santa Analogy to jury renew. Now we're gonNA limit that right now because I'm Hindu I'm Indian and I celebrate Christmas. I have a tree I believe in Santa. So don't tell me any different and I still put cookies out for San Turkeys are Vegan and gluten free. But the French and then there's no evidence of Santa being there because he would not take a bite of those cookies Awesome would pass on that as well as line. Yeah so this is the challenge for prosecutors. You have witnesses who've seen different things like someone. Someone saw tattoos. Someone saw a dreadlocks sheriff. Someone else saw Stephen Washington there but didn't see him with the gun. And and then you have this witness. Who sees him extend his arm kind of like in the motion that someone who had a gun would extend his arm hears a gunshot but doesn't see a gun and doesn't see him actually really fire the weapon? It was tough for prosecutors. Because you had the chapman sisters you have a lake then miracle and then there are other sister Tiara all testify. Hi and nobody could identify Stephen Washington. And it's almost. There's two things about this situation one. There's no video of it which is shocking because kids kids walk because it starts with a with a young women fighter and I've been on the Internet and I gotTa think that I would say eighty to ninety percent of all. Young women fights some guys recording it really posting it online. Oh yeah really crazy I sometimes I get mad at her bang because I'm like why don't you just try to call. Police break up the fight rather than just recording. Yeah exactly it's disturbing to me so that happens very often but it didn't happen here and so there's no video and number two what's counterintuitive. I think for the jury is you've got all these people there yet. No one actually sees the shooting which to me is a juror. Would make me you think number one either like really under the influence or number two. There's more to this story and someone is not saying something for some reason and and let's not forget that a lot of witnesses or at least a few rather you know who were there. They didn't hear the shooting and that bothers zarre bizarre. Because we've we've all been around gunshot. We've heard gunshots. It's usually one of those moments where everybody stops here isn't been around gunshots gun shy really. You've never have no really really were coldest sack. We try to stay away from those gunshots. Just assumed street person so I've heard gunshots. I I think I think I was in a gun range once as really order and I had earmuffs headphones on I I used to go to the gun. Range all the time. I'm great fire guns I love it. Most people have heard gunshot. We I here's the two things right so I was very I heard gunshots and to. I've never been Wall Street. I've never been in a fracas like this. Fracas it up on the weekends. I'm afraid turn into this but I. I don't know if you're in the middle of a fracas do you see and hear everything or you just involved in. Whatever you're doing whoever you're fighting trying to get off the sisters didn't hear any Fang? Miracle Hurts. Something she was on the ground I think it may have helped the prosecution to have called an expert on why certain witnesses didn't I didn't see the shooter and why certain witnesses didn't hear this shooting the bottom line is it's not an easy case for prosecutors. Okay so coming up next. I love this. We are going to talk about the revolving door of defenses in this case Fato court. TV Live over the air uninterrupted. If you're watching television with an antenna just rescan channels now to add court. TV AND GO TO COURT TV DOT COM to see the exact position and more ways to watch court TV in your area before we started our gavel to gavel coverage of Michigan versus Washington. We went into to the trial. Correct me if I'm wrong thinking it was going to be a self defense case right absolutely. Okay well we were wrong because the defense opened and flip the script on US take listen when they get into a fight. This poor kid gets shot dead and we'll never get I'm back but who shot him. That's the question Angela. Kelly will testify that he was at home or in the car. He didn't get out of the car. Okay so that was toby white. The lawyer for Stephen Washington in who reveals to us in his opening statement kind of an alibi. Yeah and that's I mean. They filed a notice of Alibi with the court as well. I mean making it official like a AH filing actual paper saying this is an Alabama case. Angela Kelly will provide the Alabama perceive in Washington. Who was not there at the time of the shooting that he was at home or in the car? So what choice Alabama and and and. That's sketch that sketch. Well here's the problem and this again again. I got a call out the entire criminal defense bar on this one. Okay because do you WanNa get them on the Horn because again folks. There's a huge difference between Ha job of prosecutors. Because it's my prosecutors is justice which is the truth. And what's ours. If you're seeking anything but the truth truth you're not doing your job as a prosecutor. I will call you out and you should not be doing that job. Okay for seeking anything other than the absolute truth. The job of the defense attorney is to huge. Defend the defendant okay. What do we do so we have to figure out what is going to go with where we gonna go with guys haven? What am I gonNA go with? The trial starts tomorrow. Hasn't inviting do with seeking the truth. Okay but I think jurors when they when they sit in that box look look at a prosecutor and a defense attorney as as having the same job just on different sides like no. It's couldn't be further from the truth. They have much different jobs. And that's the way our system works. They have to have these different jobs but I think jurors should actually know that the defense has no obligation to do anything related to the true. Okay which is why remember I said this on the sidebar and and we have this thing every day we do the daily side where you can watch it so so. This is what I pitched. You know those videos jurors watch in the big courtroom before they actually get sent out to trial. Those are given by some like random clerk Clark in some suit from the nineteen eighties. I am going to make a a national pitch to all the courts and the entire country that Vinnie Palton. Alton now does this video these jumping welcome to jury exactly first of all. You're much better looking than anybody ever put in those videos. But you're more entertaining and you'll give them this whole shtick of yours. Prosecutor Blah Blah Blah being reversible error though. Okay but I'm still going to work over the holiday. I have two weeks off this okay so now just setting this up all right. So we go with Alibi Alibi. That's where we're going. We've abandoned self-defense. We're going without without by all all-systems-go works. Actually when it comes to alibi. Stephen Washington knows where he was and he's allowed to talk to his own attorney right. Ah Yes so zone. Attorney has an opportunity to figure out. Okay was he or was he not there correct. That is correct. However if like originally self defense if Stephen Washington says no I am not going with self defense because that puts me there then then the defense attorney is married to that defense that of alibi okay? So so again. It has nothing to do with the truth. That's a long pause. Can edit out that fall is so it has none of this. Is My team here. Wait it's the truth as our clients give it to us. Okay okay so dear jobs. We need criminal. Defense attorneys folks without him assistant crumbles. That's my disclaimer. Okay so I'm the prosecution. I give them a lot the credit because in a preemptive almost strike against the expectation of Angela Kelly instead of waiting for their rebuttal case. They called Angela Angela. Kelly's ex boyfriend who they share children with and this young man Lutheran Melton. That's his name right and he and he really actually really melted. All of our hearts Melton testified and he was basically talking about what a horrible mom Angela. Kelly was then the defense offense did something strange on cross. Let's take a listen. Did you testified that you were mistaken for Steve. Detective Thomas Yes because nothing only only because they were looking for Angela in Steve to come back to the House and when me and my ex Christina Vena pulled up to the house with the children from school we were yanked out the car and then that's when he told me stay. Stay exactly where you are. Put Your hands up. What is your name in once? I told him my name he said. Where's Angela okay? Okay so the defense was trying to plan B. Nelson absolutely. It was really so weird. It was confusing. It didn't go well. It fell flat flat and and there was no evidence that he was there that night. Is there no absolute and honestly it was. It was a little racist to actually try to plan be melting and didn't work but also because they have an alibi so it's like why even try to go there and then turn off the jury which is what I think they did. So the result of that by the way was Angela. Kelly comes in. I think it was like the next day. And she takes the fifth right so the alibi falls by walks out of the courtroom. which is Angela? Kelly saying. I'm going to take the fifth so if you ask me those questions I am not testifying about which of course I wanna put it out there that I am sure that this is not what toby white. The defense attorney expected because he would not have put forth Angela Kelly as defense in good faith if thinks she would test she's focusing. How Works Sestriere? In fact this is how it works so this has happened to me before you. You know you have a co-defendant you want the codefendant to help you testify. You can't talk to the code. Found it because you can't talk someone one is represented by. So what you do you go to the attorney and for whatever reason I and again I agree with you. Why would she do this? But for whatever reason. The lawyers must have spoken in order for Toby White to think that Angela Kelly was going to testify but then Angela Kelly came in and she had a very smiley lawyer. I love that guy. They came in. She took the and it's over. So now what do we go with. What do we go with? We have no defense right. Well it was an alibi. I wasn't there I was at home or I just walked out the door so now I have to think about what. What am I going to go with? And then I've been keener took the stand stand and said this. You think he's got a knife. Yes factor sure. He's got a nice. Yes not the scissors. He's got a knife. Not Yes and you feel threatened by him yes shot him no. Can you hear them laughing. You tried I just sneaking by him and he tried to confess to the murder on the stand and shot him now okay so now. That was a combo. There was a Combo platter. I just served to you. That was a combination. A Nation of self defense and another failed plan. B Right which would be Ivan. Keener is the one who did it. which again so this is? This is this is the part that is to me very frustrating again where the defense is saying. Well it was self defense it was alibi. It was someone else. Okay if who's someone else then. It has nothing to do with self defense. If someone else in its alibi. Those sort of Ken Jibe with each other. But you're pointing the finger at more than one person. Wait wait a minute you think self defense alibi contrive with no no somebody somebody else do. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah an alibi did of course. If if it's so fence I did. Yeah you're saying plan be an alibi. Yeah okay got it self-defense. I did it right exactly. What's the problem? Is You have more than one other person doing it. Yeah pointing the finger. The way it's just like anybody walks in the door this. This defense is as chaotic we as the CEO done though. I'm not even dodge more. There's more okay. So so now self-defense. Sounds like it's back on the table because of Ivan Keener A. And what is the defense going to do with that. Are they going to ask for the Self Defense Jury instruction meanwhile the answer is. Yes because the jury's deliberating right now is we record this so self defense is is somewhat back in the mix but there's still one more defense one more what hold on. Let's play this. Did you search three twenty one. Is Your request entry. Three twenty one to search did. Did you seek us a search warrant looking three twenty one l Nelson you also aware while you were looking at this investigation that people that were involved in the homicide in one way or another went to cleal street correct. That's correct you didn't search CLEO street digit we not and you didn't seek the warrant for Cleo street that's and so then or even today the actual murder weapon could be at three twenty-one l.. Couldn't it I guess it could be. It could also be at spree correct. In fact it could be livens cells when all else fails blame it on POPs. That was his best cross examination. It was it was well done. And that was the last witness for the prosecution. Defense in a colony witnesses. So that's where where they left it and that's it does leave some questions why they didn't try to get search warrants for all those different places if some of these folks all involved in somehow charged you're trying to collect evidence would have been more thorough investigation. I don't think it misses. I don't think it points to innocence at all but it just points to the fact that it wasn't as thorough as you could have done and you should have follow through with that. Should search search the places associated with the people associated with what happened the night to see what evidence you can recover. Well the bottom line is will see what the jury things and maybe that that will give us some insight into whether a revolving door of defenses actually works all right coming up three men one murder. You're what three totally different sentences is it. Justice will answer that question when we come back for more court. TV Watch it on cable over the Air Roku or go to court. TV Dot Com mm-hmm and stream live gavel to gavel coverage. Catch up on the big moments from our current cases and relive some of court. TV's most historic trials court. TV Your your front row seat to justice the murder of Dr Theresa Savers was was solved. There were two trials and a plea and now we know who was involved and who is being held responsible for her murder. It was a brutal brutal case. She was bludgeoned to death with a hammer in her own home. She's the mother of two young girls. She has a husband Mark Savers who it was one of the defendants. So there's three defendants in this case mark savers or husband Curtis right her husband's best friend from childhood slash d'appel Ganger and and Jimmy the Hammer. Rogers who is someone that Mark Savers Best Friend Curtis right net while they were incarcerated together. These are the three men responsible for this brutal horrific case taking from this Earth a woman a mother a doctor who tried to ease the pain of all for patients and not only that she was really philanthropic. She was really trying to help people. In general you know really a very very very kind soul and one of the many sad things involved in this case is that nobody thought there was any problems with his marriage. I mean the the police please interviewed the MOMS. Everyone was still so stunned. That that marks vers even have the capacity to do something like this I. It's unreal There was a five million dollar life insurance policy or policies were in effect and clearly. Were part of the motive here it was about money And it was about being an awful awful human being but we have three cases right. You've got the case against mark. SIEVERS demand orchestrating. Everything car. Curtis right the one. He hires and the one who testifies to different trials. That's how he is the one who had a hammer in his hand and bludgeoned her while she's looking in his eyes asking him why and then Jimmy and there was a trial for Jimmy. The Hammer Rogers who was also implicated by Curtis Wright as coming in and helping to murder. Dr Theresa's Everts After Curtis writes started the attack so the trial Jimmy the hammer rogers results in a second degree murder conviction for him that jury sorry did not believe that he ever had a hammer in his hand. And that's be even even though his name. Is Jimmy the Hammer. They didn't believe he had a hammer in his hand and he was found guilty of second degree murder. Mark was found guilty of murder and curtis right. Took a deal. So let's talk about the sentencing for the for three defense case and we'll begin with mark savers Because it was up to the jury to decide take a listen we. The jury unanimously find that Mark Fevers should be sentenced to death. Yes if your vote impose. Death is less than unanimous. The Trial Court shall impose a sentence of life without the possibility of parole data this tenth day after September in Lee County. Florida death for the ringleader. Now Jimmy the Hammer. Rogers was also facing a potential death sentence but because he was only convicted of second degree murder was facing twenty two years to life. Here's what the judge did with the Hammer. I think a life sentence is warranted as as a PR's warranted and so that it's clear on appeal even if I didn't do the PR are given this back pattern and How horrendous it was I think in his involvement I think life sentence even without pr would be warranted? Life for Jimmy the Hammer Roger. So he gets the the maximum that he could have gotten for a second degree murder sentence. Meanwhile Curtis Wayne Right the one again who bludgeoned her to death. Yeah the one who had the hammer in his hand. The one who's looking in her eyes as he's doing this it's twenty up to twenty five years because he co-operated that's why right yeah. Niches get the benefit sure and here's from my perspective as a former prosecutor looking at it. I believe the person person who is most culpable in this case is mark. I agree with that but everything to action so I think as a prosecutor you look at the case that way and you say okay. Whatever I do I've got to make sure I hold him SPA escape? Because he wasn't there I agree with that. He's the mastermind. I agree with that. A lot of people find it difficult to accept that that he should be held the most responsible because he was in a different state because he was not involved in the actual act of murder. But I completely really agree with you. Because you've said this but for Mark Cevers two receivers would not be dead so I cannot attack prosecutors here for giving Curtis right the twenty five-year deal because without him. There's no way that they get mark cevers. I think it's an impossible case against him. And then I think Marcie escapes justice and then raises those two girls which to me tragedy of all. Listen you said and this was the first death penalty case where a jury actually shortly came back with a recommendation of death rights since the relaunch. Of course we've had we've had other defendants including homicide Maniac Got Nelson. Yeah ask for the death penalty and and grandma grandma who took out his mother father and brother and tried to frame his brother for murdering his mother and father and committing suicide which the jury didn't buy Henry Suguira a girl who took out a mother her six year old twin daughters and their three year old child and he got life as well. Well so it's not easy to get the death penalty floor. We did not think I just did not think that was going to get death. And maybe because of that history. Since I've been here but I am still. I'm in disbelief. That they actually gave him death to me. That is the case and one of the reasons I like to cover. These cases is it makes them more high profile. And maybe and I know people argue there is no deterrents in there but I just want all those spouses out there. Who Don't want their spouse around and are afraid to get a divorce because you're either to cheaper whatever? That's a good that this could be you. This be you if you decide to go down that other road so from my perspective this was the right call by prosecutors and justice was served Jimmie Rodgers will never get out if curtis first wainwright gets out. He's an old man and just a look ahead. I believe Curtis Wayne Right is due for sentencing in February of two thousand twenty. We'll be on. We'll let you know what happens approach. You know what's also happening in two thousand twenty the Harvey Weinstein Trial. It's still on. It's not happening. We're we've got a bunch of updates will give those to you after this follow court. TV TV live over the air uninterrupted. If you're watching television with an antenna just re scan your channels now to add court. TV AND GO TO COURT TV DOT COM to see the exact channel position and more ways to watch court TV and your area this week in Weinstein. What do you think about that as a segment Vinnie this week and well? It's GonNa happen every week. There's something there is in. The trial hasn't even started but the litigation and the controversy Karama continues. Well when we last left off at least in the last episode we were talking about Weinstein in the back surgery and he was having to cut in here. Maybe we should do like last week in Weinstein before we start this. We can Weistein tease. None of vision. Brings you up to speed in case you missed the last episode right right. TV shows yes. Oh that's a good idea okay. We'll make that happen so last week. And Weinstock okay. Sima got the exclusive. Thank you so yeah so we so we got the exclusive from the lawyer that he was actually having back surgery and that was scheduled for the day after he was going to court now. The court appearance turned out to be also huge news and a crazy detail court. TV because we again dot the exclusive and we got the breaking news before the actual court appearance of the continued bail hearing so Harvey Weinstein went back to court. His bail was being raised. Because there's some new bell reform laws that are going into effect in January of twenty twenty in the state of New York and everyone basically now gets choices. You get choices of bail. You can have cash spell you can have a bond you can have an ankle monitor and the theory behind all of this. Is that despite how much money you have or don't have you should have choices available to you. This is the part. I don't understand okay. So why don't you understand. The point of the bail reform is to get more people who are still still presumed innocent correct what charged Yes to get out out of out of jail. That's the point of sale reform. So why when it comes to Harvey. ooh I'm sorry. The point is for poor people to have the same choices as rich people right which which which will result in more people being released pending their trial. Yeah right yeah that's appointment. Harvey Weinstein was already released. So why under and this is something that actually a defense attorney are you why under the guise of bail reform should someone who's already out have to come back into court and have his bail raised to the point where maybe he can or maybe he can't make bail to me. That's like the whole. That's the opposite of of the whole purpose behind bail reform. That's a great point point. They did argue that they did they did they were they were. They're great lawyers. He has some of the best lawyer on the planet and they did argue that and bill reform is to help. Poor people not punish punish rich. People right yeah. I think if you can punish rich people on the process why not. I'm for it I'm here for it okay. So so basically Harvey Weinstein gene was out on one million cash and an ankle monitor that he was paying for he goes back to court and we break the news that his his bail is increased to two million bail bonds. That's insurance company backed bail bonds but there was some confusion and end. The confusion was that he was also given alternative of five million dollars cash. He did not take that alternative so that it was not his bail and then the ankle monitor stays in place and the confusion was aptly addressed by lead counsel don over to now guys. What does everybody not understanding understanding about this? It's a two million dollar insurance bond. That's all you need to say. It's a two million dollar insurance. Bonded is secured by his original Geno bond plus additional affects. How do we love her? I love her. She's just against Harvey Better Job. She just talked to the jury like that right. But then you know that because you saw our you know we. We debuted on closing arguments her interview with us. And she's cuts. Yeah I liked what she snaps. She's like one of those like bill parcells. When he was coach of the giants? You remember that rights. Give those press conferences abuse the press. And that's what she does. What don't you understand? Stand and the irony. Is the people the only people who understood it was court. TV led by Sima. Ir everybody else in. That's the difference between thank following these stories trials in these cases on court TV and following him elsewhere. Well let me tell you. It was a crazy day because other outlets very very prestigious outlets reporting five million five million and our bosses vinnie. Our bosses are like Seema Seema Seema thema and and I just said Nope I got it right. I am leaving the office to get a manicure. Just that's it I I to confront. Yes she backed me up so that thought was to the bosses. What is so hard for you to understand? It's a two million dollar insurance bond. What is so hard Ari skulls? I did say back in your office. Put your suits back on them. Yeah I did actually and so just I I. In addition to that so he he chose the two million dollars. He's no big deal right and so he's not doing the five million cash and then the other part of his bail package is the ankle monitor a now and this is strange. The Ankle Monitor is being paid for by the bail bondsman. It comes out of his fee. Okay so Harvey's no longer paying for that. So he's got a bail bondsman. That's how we came on court. TV Live Ira Charleston which is interesting right because they get get paid by the defendant. Right you've got to pay for him to post that von for yes and it's usually ten percent isn't it. Usually yes. I mean I harvey doesn't get back unless you cut a deal. But so harvey could have paid him like a couple hundred thousand dollars. I think it was more than that. Wow I think it was like five or six hundred should have been. I think if I get into the bail bonds business let me tell you something. It's not easy work it's hardware. It's it's very hard work but a lot of money but whoa what. ooh Okay all right so now that was that was part of it so now we know but then the other takeaways right. Yeah they have his passport. Yeah confirmed that. So so the other issue is at Harvey in this continued. Bail hearing came to court using a walker with wheels with wheels. Is that still a walker. What is it like a scooter? It's it's it's okay. It doesn't have the little tennis balls on the bottom instead. It's got we know he he. He can lean and go leaned and wheel his way and he looks he looks terrible and I believe he's in painters. I mean back pain is awful. Anyone who has suffered it you know how bad it can be. I'm just always skeptical full of criminal defendants that have this really bad kind of pain as their trial gets closer and closer. Okay and I know you were. You were suspicious is skeptical okay so you were similar dish off journal okay. So the day after Harvey Weinstein was in court and his bail was increased. He went to a hospital to get this procedure done. It is called a bilateral lamb. Anatomy does not sound good. Well he I think originally and this is from speaking to his lawyer you know the next day. She gave us a statement that he was in the hospital recovering. Good spirits. They thought he was going to get out one day. He was there actually for a couple of days and he got out a few days later and he doesn't look good but he's out. He's not not playing pickle ball he's not playing pickle right so you're GONNA show up in court with the Walker. Do you think even after the surgery I look for eight hours. Okay here's an excuse to delay this case. I don't think so I don't think so and just to be clear in court at the continued bail. Hearing I by his lawyer said that nobody wants this to go to trial in January more than Harvey Weinstein. All right we'll get ask him if he's convicted. Does he get different treatment because of his condition and his back when he goes on to go to the infirmary but wait hold on a second. We have to just just realize this and this is serious you you talk about like you know having back pain. You're yeah you will. You're someone who's knock wood very fit very athletic. You take care of yourself you eat right. I'm really weird but you eat right. And this is Harvey Weinstein. Who Looks? I think this is not like a judgment. I think this is the fact that he looks looks very overweight and really does it does is not in great shape. He doesn't like he's very fit and when I first saw him his class when I first saw him limping into court I thought it was it was out which is very common with people who live that rich lifestyle. Okay the GOUT. Do you have cow. No no no. No don't rich foods and the lobsters. Yeah Oh he's like sitting around eating lobsters every day. What's it called caviar and lobster lobsters? I wonder if he's going to get that. I hope he's out of pain. And I hope that the trial continues to gets his day in court autumn. Line and the accusers accusers. Get Their Day in court obsolete but bottom line we can you know in good faith tell our listeners that all systems are go for January January. Twenty twenty the first big trial twenty twenty on court. TV New York versus Harvey Weinstein. Thank You Ladies and Gentlemen for listening holidays. Have a wonderful holiday today. Season really enjoy it and you can watch TV over the holidays and if you have a digital antenna rescan it. It's a great gift to gather the kids around and rescan. WHOA you're waiting for Santa? Yes we'll see next to this. PODCAST is a production of court for TV. Go to court. TV Dot Com for more content trials on demand and to find out how to watch Kotei in your area

Harvey Weinstein Angela Kelly prosecutor Stephen Washington murder Angela Angela attorney Ivan Keener Jimmy Curtis Michigan Chapman Hannah Hammer Rogers Santa Attorney Toby White Steven Washington Washington Vinnie Palton
The Imbalanced History Of Rock And Roll: Buddy Holly- 'Rock n' Roll Crusader'

Pantheon

43:11 min | 10 months ago

The Imbalanced History Of Rock And Roll: Buddy Holly- 'Rock n' Roll Crusader'

"Hey Hey Marcus, how you doing not too bad, not too bad woke up a little bit sore after a big bike ride yesterday and did what I tend to do. When I wake up. Really Sore is grab a little CBD and I'm feeling better. That's good. You know our joints. Don't take exercise in extreme activities very well. The older we get, and a lot of people were younger experiencing the same thing. That's why we're pretty excited about our sponsor. One CBD and a lot of people seem interested in the fact that one. CBD's consciously created they use one hundred percent organic sources. They employ a holistic removal of all the THC and they select the best strains, and the strain is very important. Important, when working with controlling pain, are also hall and Kosher compliant are non, GMO. They're made in the U. S. A. M.. We've set it up so that you can save twenty percents off your first order when you use the code balance I. I don't know we're. We're imbalanced, but we're using the code ballads, so keep that in mind you go to one CB DOT COM. That's N E D Dot Com and they're at one eighty life on twitter. If you WANNA, follow him there CBD in all, forms liquid, Gel, cavs, and they give you the choice. All you have to do is hit their website. One CBD, Dot Com it's one CBD, manage your pain and achieve a renewed sense of balance. Marcus in the darkest here. How you doing buddy? I'm doing fantastic in yourself. My friend I just realized how ironic it is that I just casually called you buddy because that's what today's episode, the imbalance history or rock and roll is all about. Friends. Buddy Holly. Exactly. He's. He's one of both of our favorites, and we were talking about it on the episode of five favorites. And you really show me a lot more about your interest. Buddy Holly, which has been ingrained in me from the cradle, so it's kind of cool to sit here and talk about the main. Who became I duNNO NERD! Cool that a good way to look at it definitely nerd cool in that nerd, coolest kind of punk rock in some ways because of the attitude that went with nerd. Cool the guys in the leather jackets in the white t shirts with collars turned up and all that stuff cigarette also and cigarette pack in the sleep you. They were also punk rock. Those Kinda guy is in the rock and roll scene. All thought the Charles. Hardin holly was pretty cool to even though he was a skinny guy with the big old glasses I always love seeing rivers, Cuomo from weezer. Totally adapted that look early on and made it his own. Shows Buddy Holly through the decades and now into in home other century. Continues to be an influence on rock and roll all by the age of twenty two. It's incredible what he did in his short time in the music world, and the fact that his in a few others ended so tragically on that same is just heartbreaking, because of what the three of them brought to the music world. At that time. We'll get around to that, but first we got. Got To thank our sponsors crooked eye brewery in the heart of hamper serving cure for what ails you since two thousand, fourteen and one CBD check them out online at O. NEC BE BVD DOT COM. Can I give you some perspective for my family and my life and my approach to buddy holly sure buddy was born about a year after my dad. Now my dad was more of. Of a Sinatra Guy, my mom, who was born two years later, she was all about Buddy Holly Rock and roll till I've had in my collection since I was a man, my twenties a a lot of my mom's forty fives after she passed I got the rest of them, but I always had her buddy. Holly and crickets records on Coral Brunswick. All I can tell you is. Is I learned some things about all that? While we were looking into this episode about the Ma'am Buddy Holly with or without the crickets, and the influenced a whole lot of people at a key time in rock and roll, as it was turning quarter really along those lines, you have one of the greatest quartet's, if not the most influential important rock and roll quartet of all time. Taking their name as a take off or to show respect because they were influenced by holly that band being. Close ally. A.. Software. Guy. And you also have the hollies who took their name from buddy holly as well. So. The guy was influential in the short time, and he didn't even live long enough to be in the twenty seven club body I know and. To have. Those lives taken in such a freak way. It doesn't make sense if you really think about it what they were bringing the world at that time as far as music goes, and how they were helping, change the tide. Yes, in a lot of ways to have it all just clip out from under you like that makes no sense. That's the part of fate stuff that I have a hard time with it doesn't make sense, and they were people who were needed long beyond what they gave us. Let's fast forward from those early Halcyon days where he's recording and becoming an artist and making his name and go to the day the music for my mom Shanna. That's the day the music died, February, third, one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, nine I was a wee babe. We interrupt this program for a special news bulletin, three young singers who saw to the heights of show business on the car and rock and roll craze or killed today in the crash of a light plane in an Iowa Snow Flurry Los Angeles where it doesn't fight as Ritzy Vallon, Seventeen Buddy, holly twenty two j P. Richardson known professionally as the big bopper. We are craft chartered from lead wire Flying Service Crash Mason city, ironically setting for the prominent musical the music man. Pilot Roger Peterson of clear Lake Iowa was also killed. The three singers had appeared at the surf ballroom, an play like Iowa last night and round away to Fargo North Dakota. They're small charter. Plane crashed and the lonely farmyard about fifteen miles northwest of Mason city. In the way it worked out first off also in there, in addition to the crew was the big bopper. He was part of the review that was making the making the rounds there with Buddy, Holly Ritchie Valens. Game. All. Right. I. Know, what life? A. It was the Winter Dance Party tour. What did you say earlier? It would go down in history and be known as rock and roll's tour from Hell the winner Dance Party of Nineteen fifty nine, and it was because travel was difficult to winner that part of the country clear Lake Iowa scene of the final moments for J P, Richardson, the big, bopper Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens. It's one of those faith things, and you mentioned it earlier as we're getting into this holiday in one way and he wanted to get to the next eight. Everybody else was going another other way I think they were going to drive to a train, and all that and he was going to meet them. There is GONNA fly ahead. I guess he had stuff to do center Waylon Jennings. He gave up his seat. I can't remember if he gave it to Ritchie JP. That's. That's the way things went down and that's why. Waylon. Jennings wasn't aboard the day the music died. The pictures were on the news have been songs in books and all kinds of things that have been said about it, and for a long time that kind of settled down until the movie the Buddy Holly Story which is where guys your age really got excited about buddy in some ways, right? It was the seventies when the movie came out. Seventy eight. I think and. I was into it, too, but twelve years old yet, but there were a lot of you that had not really heard of buddy holly in there. You see Gary Abuse You doing this whole. You target thing with classes and the whole nine yard beat so cool and the way he was moving. He was Kinda like a nerdy elvis trying to shake his hips in some way. By here this is. Reason I don't think we'd better buddy. Dr Vertigo. Be Buddy I. Don't think we're better. To do this for the virus. I was lucky because my dad was really into buddy, holly his music with some of the music that I heard as a child growing up along with. CR. He liked Bob Dylan. He liked real young because they wrote great songs, and they didn't have exceptional voices, so he was really impressed with the fact that they could do that, and then he liked a lot of country music. Waylon Willie stuff like that. Alabama Eddie Rava Crystal Gayle the Mamas and Papas. We had a lot of motown going on in our houses. Well, my dad was huge on Motown, so my mom grew up in Belleville. New Jersey so she was into like Fabian and frank and. Deano and all of them as well so as a kid, it was fun singing later alligator after awhile crocodile and stuff like. Walk. We had all that kind of crazy records in our house, too. Jazz a man in the funny papers. We all know. He lives. Back home time, girl! Don't be nothing. Cats do. Well? This cat's name is Ashley. For me, my earliest recollections are post, February nineteen, fifty nine, so a lot of it was music. My mom would put on her forty five player when she wanted to hear a little bit of Buddy and. Some of those songs. That really made buddy holly famous in immortal in a Lotta ways. Break Rubin Marcus here on. History of rock and roll the thing that got you. Got Me Your Dad. My mom millions of other people a song. The songs of buddy holly the songs buddy holly crickets. Crickets. However you WANNA say. They made you move? They made you feel good. They made you WANNA dance. It made any. Like. Wasn't high energy sexual. Driven. You know it was a let's hanging dance. Let's let's dance, Malt Shop Scooby Doo, style Scooby Doo. Prese QB DOO now. One of the things I've forgotten. And then we started looking into this reminding me about the fact that that'll be the day which everybody knows everybody across generations. Know it's. The. Style Ricketts is actually artist on the label. It was their only number one. Here's another thing that people don't relieve look at very seriously, but should buddy holly as well as buddy, holly and the crickets. However you want to label. It charted very well in the United States. Are In beach arts really well, that'll be. The day hit number two. It was a song that they you know that. The R. and B. Radio stations played they spiked in Buddy Holly, and then he was the first artist to play the Apollo. Theater and that's right. That's in the movie in the movie. Are you ready? For Nice found applause for Mr, Buddy Holly. The way the. Started laughing like. When he came on stage, and then they just wall up that crowd with some feel good rock and roll, and they sold the crowd on their music right away. Thought Scott Bram. Bay. May. It was really impressive that he was also a crusader food grew rights as well and really believed in equality amongst all people, so it's said a lot about his character. It sure did, and that's kind of a career is brief as it was backdrop for him, he had it set in his mind kind of the way. You described it right there, Marcus. And then he comes back with a song, didn't. Really too much, then came a classic how close. San. Album loud. Words. Tonight I. Love. And Tha. That's my buddy holly. Not The crickets. And it's on Coral Not Brunswick with your both part of Deca by the way which buddy recorded his first sight's for six. Here's the thing. He had hooked up with Norman Patty. WHO GETS CREDIT FOR BEING THE PRODUCER? Even though you and I discussed. How! Had A lot more hands on in the middle of it involvement in his music. A lot of people did his time. Yeah. He completely changed the sound that the label wanted him to have. He was like no. These songs were meant to play this way. This is how we will record them. This is how we will play them. This is how it's going to be. Win You may. Day. But. And he did not back down. Then I found out why they're only records done in that short period of time, only a period of couple years really, but there were re recorded versions in. That's their the versions. Buddy, said Fuck, you guys. I'M GONNA do this way and watch. It's a hit bank and he was right most of the time as much as anybody could be. Then he has one of his biggest hits. It's a top five number. Three both aren be an hot one. Hundred and taking sue becomes this huge it for him, even though it didn't top the charts puke. You. With that tag. Let. In those days you hit number three. You were getting a lot of love from radio all across the board, and then the next single from the crickets. It's the same guy right, but it's on Brunswick that's. purplish label doesn't go all the way, but it has a big impact in England with the double single Oh boy, and not fade away. Think about that. How Oh boy, with buddy, holly and his pickets. You don't know what you've been. All when they go me hold. Over the that? In whiten Bambi no hair, the noble. When you, the homeboy although the world could be that. When the rockabilly thing takes off and. Oboe becomes a standard for allow the guys'll Robert. Gordon, came along right not fade away was one of the first songs rolling stones grabbed and made their own. Absolutely here, buddy, holly, and all of those early British invasion rockers without a doubt and not fade away as one of my favorite buddy, holly and the crickets tunes, just a great jam. It's almost like the two things. The crickets buddy holly is act or an artist would alternate having success with stuff because the crickets had have a top ten hit and buddy with Mac or something, like Ravon which you know, one of my favorites. Even when I really I started listening that discover that, and that wasn't for MOMS collection. It sounded contemporary now to me, and it stayed with me all for years. Now it's going to be. You to me. This is all through the year of my birth buddy. I'm looking all these records that are coming out. On on the combinations of labels and it was petty came up with the idea, different artists that way you're not on each other's toes. And meanwhile he was siphoning off everything he could a more than was his share from what everybody has said through the years all the books and articles I've ever read so that's what it all comes round to in the. The areas nineteen fifty-eight. He's one of the highs guys in rock and Roll Ryan and he's so cool, even though he's you know non traditionally macho or anything like that. He does real wild child he starts to have other records in the nineteen fifty nine. It doesn't matter anymore I think that actually come out after he was gone and becomes a huge hit. In Life. Williams you mail me? So I could see it imply will golly Gee, what have you done to Muriel against? It doesn't matter. Know it was released January fifth, so it came out that was. The son was on the radio when I was still a current as you would say. When the plane crashed just a month later, then true love ways was later and they a few years after his death. Look at all these songs that he released some people never get as many hits that they released after his death ever in their whole career, just one of those sad rock and roll tragedies and there's God knows been too many of them through the decades since since the fifties, rock and roll really got to be as a lifestyle for the. The artists as well as a music style. That's true was a music style was a life style. It was a sound that excited. People excited most everybody. Even I think the people who complain about it hated it secretly deep down in felt excited about it, and I think that excitement, and that feels feeling scared the shit out of them seriously I say we changed from the water that we're drinking and convert our beverages over to something tasty from crooked i. One of the things that I appreciate is anytime. I go into crooked eye brewery right there at York and Montgomery in the heart of Hambro always feel good, and that includes feeling safe about where we're hanging out. You know what I'm talking about, Marcus. I definitely know what you're talking about. As during the COVID pandemic, it is important that people feel safe when they're going out and about very important and crooked eye. Has that warm safe five and they're doing everything according to the governor's directions there the they know dance. What's in everyone's best interest? But they're still serving Markus. That's right, the take out your or your crawler. Your sixteen ounce cans all still there all the. The wonderful flavors that you love about crooked eye brewery and don't forget when you stop in to get your takeout bruise wear mask absolutely and I think one of the things that Pete and Paul and Jeff and everybody and we're learning to is that it's a constantly changing landscape when it comes to what's going on so I, would urge all of you to follow crooked eye brewery on Facebook, and you'll find out just what's going on there today tomorrow next week, and as things change, Cook it. I- brewery, right in the heart of hat, borough, poorer and the cure for what ails you since two thousand fourteen, and we thank them for their support of the podcast. We're back from Bruce keys in ready to roll on buddy, holly on the imbalance history of rock and roll well, the rock and Roll Hall of fame takes a Lotta Shit Marcus, but you know they got that first class right in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, six and buddy was in there. He should have been in there. He was one of the founders that deserve to be part of that inaugural class because of what he did, and it becomes another classic example that we talk about. About here on the podcast of what if an how much for how long would buddy of made even more amazing music? He had already shown himself to be a man who could change with the times, and that extended to his marriage right, his marriage shows that he believed in all people, and was completely against any sort of prejudice. He found somebody who he completely fell in love with at first sight, and had no cares about what her ethnic background was what her religion was any. Didn't care about he loved her. He saw her and he knew it was one of those moments and I give him mad. Props for being able to not only set a standard of artists involvement in the recording process in rock and roll, but to be able to socially do things the right way and do the right thing. Versus what stereotypical prejudices are what societal stereotypes are so mad, props, the buddy holly for being cutting edge in so many ways they met along the. The same kind of path that you normally might think she was working in the building appear music, and that's how they met when he was starting to move towards New York, so he and Maria Elena Santiago connection, and then they have a date. Oh my God. He was in town. He was recording and he just met the girl of his dreams. Now I think as much in Texas more than anywhere that he would be familiar with their relationship wasn't readily accepted in. There was some concern that from other people in the business part of things, but he never showed it. He never felt that they got married right before the plane crash and it's hard to believe that their love was so strong that it was willing to go across all that had so little time not knowing that he was going to die and just a short time. No Way of knowing that his another thing and I know the movie with Gary. Busey, playing buddy, holly showed a little bit about how he had to jump through hoops with marinas, and to be able to win her over to give him a chance to be able to date Maria and the fact that you know he did that again at a time where it was challenging for anybody and societally different for anybody to do any interracial dating just wasn't calm, and and it wasn't socially acceptable, and people got uncomfortable with it and. The hoops that he had to jump through were impressive in the fact that he wanted over says a lot about it, says you. And the fact that her aunt being old school probably saw that, and felt that and understood that aspect about it and understood how both of them felt because I can guarantee while he was courting, her Maria had already had that talk with her aunt. They've been married six months at the time of the day. The music died. She learned about it on TV. She was pregnant and suffered a miscarriage shortly after because of the trauma at all, we talked about trauma in rock and roll, but this is actual life relief trauma, and of course buddy. was buried in Lubbock. They say she's never visited the grave I couldn't understand that so I went and I found a quote. That she gave a while back. It says in a way I blame myself. which is a horrible thing to do to yourself? I was not feeling well when he left. I was two weeks pregnant, and I wanted buddy to stay with me, but he had scheduled that war. It was the only time I wasn't with him, and I blame myself because I know that. If only I had gone along, buddy never would have gotten into that airplane at some heavy Shit Dude. No matter what age you are, or how much time and maturity gives you perspective, that's the part when I learned about it Marcus about the whole story when I really dug into it after I saw the Buddy Holly story movie really made me angry, and it's kind of ironic that now in our country were feeling. Some of these same ridiculous tensions are all same thing. We all bleed red. We all love rock and roll and one of the. The things I think buddy. Holly loved was that everybody seemed to dig is music. Everybody wanted to dance together. They WANNA. Hang out together. And that was something I think that he achieved in the short time that he had, and he was in a lot of ways, a bridge between the are in charge of the black charts whatever they were called at that time, and the white rock and roll charts, because he without social media without video without you know all of the easy ways to promote people just loved his records, and just loved his music, and back in those days when radio cats loved the music they played. You mentioned his aunt. Who she went to live with because her mother died when she was twenty two years old, so ria went to live with her aunt, who gave buddy the permission and that was in new. York City and that's how she ended up their work and appear, and that's how they met it. Just those things in rock and roll that bring people together. There's parts of the story that only happen because other things happened. Put those people on the. The same train platform or in the same music publishers office, and from Lubbock Texas in San Juan. Puerto Rico. They connected there I got a feeling. She still has that strong strong feeling in her heart, even though it's all these years later. I think says she's eighty seven that right? That's a long time to hold onto. That and I hope she's found a way to be able to come to peace at some point, so that she. Find, some joy and warmth in her heart which I hope she's been able to do since then because living with stuff like that is heavy, and it gets heavier, the longer you hold onto it, so I hope she was able to release it. One of the things we're learning as we get older right OUTTA. Let things go that. Don't matter, you're right well, you know buddy holly. He did start out in Lubbock. Texas little all town there in west Texas his statue in a monument to their in town, because they're still proud of what he did in rock and roll. And that's where when we were doing the birthday twins episode. That's where bobby keys intersected with buddy. Holly was there and his grandparents. Outta his connections within the stories. We're telling here on the podcast again. At that time period you see a lot more of the intermingling of the musicians Phil. Everley was at buddy holly's funeral. He had crossed paths with them. I think buddy. Holly had opened up for the Everley brothers I mean. He was tight with Elvis Elvis claims that buddy. Holly was one of his influences. Influences as far as songwriting in music goes after opening Elvis in the fifties, buddy holly influences in. That's just crazy well. He was doing a thing there in. LUBBOCK REVIEWS POW BOB, so his buddy and Bob was actually the group name. They actually did open for Elvis and that's what made him realize that he wanted to do this. As as a GIG as a career. And they opened eldest three times that year, and they saw his musical style, the Buddy Bob. It started the slide towards rock and roll, which eventually would transmogrify into the crickets, but before that. They'd open up for Bill Haley and his comments. And I think the combination of those two elements, Elvis and Bill Haley. Kind of seeped all into what they were doing, and really rock and roll became the primary focus, and along the way hooked up with Eddie Crandall helping get a contract with Decca, Decca is where he met Owen Bradley and Owen Bradley helped him to get to Norman Petty I think in petty at the idea of the different labels and the different artists names and that way they always making and releasing records, which is really I think what buddy was really into if you can. Gather anything from the studio process. He loved being in there. You helped to innovate on double tracking and all kinds of stuff that was done in the studio. He didn't say I can't do that, he said. Can we get it done? And that's why he was an innovator, and that's why he's one of your five favorite I two albums absolutely, and if you think about it, the way decade did it by releasing artists under different names or groups and. And Solo artists in the late fifties seems to have been an influence on the motown model as well and you know that Berry Gordy learned from watching how the other people were because he read the charts, he remember the numbers, and he paid attention to all the little things like the labels and things like that study did and basically took his own statistics class by reading the charts and learning from it, and then use the successful deca model. For people like Buddy Holly to move motown forward in that scene. It's so crazy how things happen here and you're right about that. With the way, the motown kind of started out with an idea of doing that. Same Multi label thing and it worked out pretty well for them. That's for damn short. But, I'm also sitting here, thinking about the hold Deca base. Bradley who is known for producing already buddy wasn't happy with how things were going in the studio. So that's how we end up seeking out. Norman Petty at his studio down in New Mexico for a demo session of you tunes, including that'll be the day that version. The Demo version of that'll be the day became a number one hit. Can you imagine the electric? In the magic in the room over the top electric, I mean seriously over the top electric. If finished the cake and Y'all look at each other I think there's hairs up on the back of people's necks and all that comes. I've always wanted to ask a musician of that type of level of songwriting. How often they've felt that when recording songs saying hey, I know the people are GonNa really like this. We love this, but I really know the people are GonNa like this because I've also read stories where people get. We were GONNA. Leave that song off the album because we thought. Thought it was, you know bollocks and then boom. It was number one hit bollocks out Iran a lot of those so those stories, but there's just as many where they wrote it new the second they did that. They had something that they've never done that. Was something different and special? So in a songs come from deliver in all different kinds of wage. Do and it's fascinating. How some of these songs hit you differently in? How in the making? They hit the musicians differently in the artists as well as they made it. You Know You keep mentioning Norman What's his name? Norman Patty but some of the other riders of Buddy Holly Songs besides buddy. Holly or Roy Orbison. To Fatten look so! I. Got You had Sunny West. Again wrote a or two for buddy. Holly as well you know what I found out. Ahmet ertegun wrote a song for everybody back in those days he got everybody to record at least one of his songs. Charles. Let's what Rachel also and you know. Mark is only know this because I recently re watched the movie. Mess around and that's all yeah. Mess. Around is the one that I'm again wrote. Wow! Obama. Ray was struggling. I think with right in the next thing or find the next thing. And he brought it in, and they sang at the studio. There's a great scene in the movie. If you haven't watched the movie rain awhile, check it out growing up West Texas. Buddy and the guys. They had a lot of influence There's that scene where they do. The Country Sam with the Standup Bass, and then they start rocking it and spin in the standard of right. They, but they were influenced by Hank Williams and Jimmie Rodgers Hank, Snow Bob Wills and the carters. They were all big influences on anybody who was doing music. They listened to the Grand Ole opry. They listening to Louisiana Hayride in the Big Jayme read. Do you think they listen to the blue stations back then to as well and some of the black stations or the R. N. B. Stations I don't know how they were labeled. Pickets were all listening to the opry and the Louisiana Hayride in the big D Jamboree in the same way that the Z. Z. top guys were all listening to the station, so they had commonality in that in their early playing, but win the rock and roll came in. They just took all that, and put it aside and created something new, which turned heads. Heads because they weren't doing the same rock and roll formula that everybody else wants. They were creating new stuff. That's true, but they had to have a soul influence of some sort they'd creeped in along the way because there's no way that they could have creeped into the black charge of the R and B, charts of the soul charts without that I. I looked and I didn't really find it but I. Suppose you could go and find the sonic connections that create that and through this whole discussion marcus in our research for this episode on Buddy Holly. It's been clear to me now why I have record setting no word like one after the other in their release time back in the fifties on Brunswick and And coral different bands in same songs in different needs because of all the stuff that we discussed about the labeled strategy that petty had developed so now something that really has been a question, my mind, a small one, but a question in my mind for a long time as answer here on the podcast, and hopefully some other lights went on a repeal. Era Beaten we both learned a lot during the research of this project. As far as buddy, holly goes, and the people around in because even the survivors as we move forward had an influence on rock and roll, and the direction of music in some ways, Waylon Jennings, a huge player in country, Music Sonny Curtis and the crickets moved forward without buddy, holly, and then road I fought the law, which was made famous by somebody else I can't remember. who was the band that covered that did it that made it more famous than I can't remember. The Bobby Fuller fully, yes. Fuller for made it famous, and then, of course you had the class do it, and then of course green day and a few other bands after that have done it since as well so, but yet Sonny Curtis and the crickets routed bobby fuller four made it. Famous class really made it famous and Green Day. Yep it all fell out of the crickets and the Buddy Holly influence and I wonder if that was a song that they had been working on, that guy was always writing music. He was one of those guys who was just always writing songs walking down the street. He hears the noise and he's like Oh my God. That's a riff, and then he's gotta run home and probably play the risk. You know that's where he was as. As. He drew to the end of his life, not thinking that it was around the corner, he was sick. The status quo and he's always trying to break frene evolve part of the tragedy that we kind of touched on earlier is the fact that we don't know? What would it come out and sixty sixty one sixty two? What would have been the influence on the British invasion, if holly was still there and releasing rock and roll? Would, there have even been a British invasion had a buddy holly been alive and continued, which is actually an interesting question of fiction? Could your filled the gap of Elvis going in the service and kept rock and roll from the US? Charts and repelled alignment I. Don't know we'll never know. We can't talk about it here on the podcast, too heavy me about it. Also the year of the inaugural class of the rock and Roll Hall of fame. You said was nineteen eighty-six correct. He would have been and fifty years older so think he was more than thirty, six, thirty, seven, thirty six, so he would have been about fifty years old at that point. Can you imagine fifty years of Buddy Holly or there? Buddy Holly at that point holy want I'm thinking about the same I've had the same thoughts about Jimmy and your Morrison. Janice Dean Janice you have all of them Richie I mean Ritchie Valens I. Wonder what he would have done that kid was a great songwriter to we had electric energy man, that kid had energy and required viewing. If you WANNA, know more about him is. The movie La Bamba? A lot of Phillips does a great job as Ritchie and it's a tragic telling of the end, but it also tells about this vive for life. All of those guys. He broke down barriers to yeah, he did he absolutely did. Maybe we'll watch La Bamba together and get real. Bangash officle into an episode I'd be download that that'd be a lot of fun. brought. This is a great time for music, and this is a great time to talk about for music, because it explains a lot to how we got to where we are, and where we are is at the end of our love fest, professing it all for the Great Buddy Holly. We'll get together soon. Don't worry. You can always find any episode. You've missed or anything like that. On website, imbalance, history, dot, com, or on the Pantheon podcast collective. You know where they are and wherever you get your podcast, apple and spotify and. CAST boxing leases everybody, so let's call it an episode for Good Old Buddy Holly I'm recoup. Darkest, let's get together soon and share another episode of the Imbalance History of rock and roll.

Buddy Holly Holly Ritchie Valens Buddy Holly Rock Rubin Marcus Elvis Elvis Hardin holly Waylon Jennings West Texas Lubbock United States Charles cavs twitter Brunswick Gary Norman Patty Texas Hank Williams Owen Bradley
BONUS | Billionaire Ken Langone, BlackRocks Kate Moore, Documentarian Ken Burns

Squawk Pod

31:22 min | 1 year ago

BONUS | Billionaire Ken Langone, BlackRocks Kate Moore, Documentarian Ken Burns

"Bringing show musically this squawk the daily podcast brought to you by the team behind squawk box. CNBC CONTROL TO CNBC's essential morning show every day. Get the best stories debate and analysis from the biggest names in business and politics are coming to our next. Here's what we're talking about today. The billionaire investor Ken langone white saying to a gambling addict. Hey here's a million bucks going into the Casino and some fun filmmaker Ken Burns on Countries Trees Big Bang for the music industry. The origin is an intersection of commerce and Technology and Joe Becky Andrew Watch what could be a key move by the central bank. This is the first time the Fed has stepped in such a way literally in ten years. We've got those stories and much more. CNBC producer Katie Kramer. It's Wednesday September eighteenth pod begins right now becky three one up and becky hey good morning everybody welcome the squawk box here on CNBC. We are live from the Nasdaq market site in Times Square. I'm becky quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Our guest is blackrock Kate more good to have have you here. Thank you first up on today's podcast the murky market known as Repo what is it the Federal Reserve has a two point two trillion dollar repurchase purchase system that allows one party to extend cash for equivalent securities. This can help companies short on Tash to borrow quickly the cash borrower agrees to repurchase those securities again at a slightly higher price and the other day the interest rate on that borrowing known as the REPO rate shot up to ten percent about four times. What's normal so the New York fed made a surprising rising of shoring it up with emergency fifty billion dollars on Tuesday then they injected more today now? Let's get back to Becky Kate. We were just talking about this. It's all the moves that were made in the repo market yesterday by the Fed pretty confusing to try and figure out what was happening why yeah I think there are a lot of people that are looking at all of these small events ends and asking does it have bigger implications Andrew and I were sort of chatting about as well and in this environment where everyone's feeling really uncertain where we have heightened geopolitical risk in the political risk and policy can certainty you know I think these sort of fractures in the market make people more nervous so whether or not this ends up being a much bigger issue I mean I'll leave that to the experts on the repo side but I will note that this really does weigh on investor citing inside the office yesterday. This is the thing I'm trying understand. I immediately had a two thousand seven summer of two thousand seven flashback aspect BNP scare. I don't know if you remember but there was a two and a half billion dollars. maybe two billion dollars were frozen subprime that all of a sudden there was like a freak out and at the time it didn't feel like it was meaningful didn't and everybody's sort of pooh-poohed it and said Oh it's just a technical issue one problem with one institution and then of course we know what happened the difference though private institution between what was happening in the market and the Fed stepped in right away and there was awesome action right so this is the first time the Fed stepped in such a way literally in ten years and the only other time that ever did something like this was in the middle all of crisis. That's right now. I think it's fair to ask you know. Is this going to be something like a warning sign and we're going to look back and say this is the start of a bigger fractured. Oh factors really are technical factors so well technical fat they technically you know you say oh yeah. They call them technical factors but there's something looming but sometimes taking effect is really are just take those I mean there's nothing else that would say on the black rock trading floor. There was no panic it was very orderly and calm and like a regular Tuesday morning so it's it's interesting that the the like a handful of headlines but just a smattering and try to make sense of what it meant or they were doing it was up to seventy five billion not entirely really sure how much they it's happening. It's not happening this window. I agree. It was a little bit confusing and something of course we'll be watching. They mentioned I think like the all of these small things things that are impacting sentiment can together really weigh on you know how investors active in the end of the year. Let's talk about oil this morning and the price of crude rude again an issue where even forty-eight hours ago there was a bit of a freak out. I don't even know there's forget the markets in which is where I got it in the headlines at they jumped by more than ten percent after the weekend attacks acts on Saudi oil facilities but gave back much of those gains after Saudi Arabia said it would restore most of its oil output and returned all production levels within weeks now the kingdom's is new energy mentors said that fifty percent of production actually that was lost on in Saturday's attack has already been restored we had an expectation that there might be a third of it back online by the end of this week week but fifty percent already is quite a feat or at least ahead of where people were expecting things to be. He's the attacks won't affect and this is also important because we were asking lots of questions questions on Monday morning over the weekend will not be impacting Aramco's upcoming. Ipo Of course that IPO has been delayed for quite some time now going to be going public domestically in Saudi as opposed to on a major exchange but moving ahead nonetheless Aramco's chairman said the company is committed to that IPO taking place in the next twelve months the country's Defense Minister Ministry set to hold a news conference later today and of course we expect to learn a lot more about who came thinks was behind that attack Iran's Defense Ministry this morning continuing to deny any role in the attacks despite the comments and intelligence from US officials. I can't believe anything they remember to be six months before for we're back online that was original estimate for Saudi Arabia so it at first saying you can't believe Saudi no. I'm saying that when you're trying to decide what to believe it right after an event that it's best to just call type yet this whole I remember going to be six months if we hit a six month disruption of south of half of Saudis oil even though we don't import people were talking about you know. They have a thirty five to forty days supply. How much can you get back on six? Months was the thinking wow those facilities as must really be damaged. Sometimes you think about we we've had power go out and and it's like Oh to get things like look. There's even just fired a refinery or for an oil operation. It can create lasting damage in this case. It's going to be six months right new developments seventeen we works pushed to go public still before year's end CEO Adam Newman speaking to employees in a webcast that took place late yesterday on Tuesday he said he had had been quote humbled by the shelves. IPO and said that he had received feedback on the role that he needed to play as a leader of public company he then went on to saved the week debut for other disruptors like lifting Uber contributed to his decision to delay the offering. I will tell you I sat with him now. I want to say maybe three three or four months ago. We were on the record at the time Uber's. IPO had taken place and I put the question to him. How do you how much you focused on the Uber? IPO How anxious nobody will it and at the time it was like doesn't matter to me completely irrelevant. I can't even if he was able to get investors who wanted to invest at a price. They were looking. I mean I'm suggesting that all of a sudden I dare. I say there's an element of hypocrisy yeah. That's it well. It was the and it just it doesn't matter if you can still get investors interested in you now. Investors may be less interested in him having seen what happened to uber coming out and having seen what happened to lift having seen what happened to smile direct club but it's because they kicked the tires maybe a little harder than they would've otherwise if the price is right right and the financials look good. You know you don't have to worrying about what's come before you right. They'll be demand for your shares. WE WIDER SECOND QUARTER LOSS. I I mean I do everything I can for for pet food things what you decide three dogs what you decide. What do you mean? Would you decide about the possibility O- of a dog in the sorkin in Sirkin households yeah. I've tried to just put it off trying to the kids will grow up before they realized they didn't get one or something. I mean how install it is designer dog. What do you think the boys watched the show and so if in fact a dog was was going to be a surprise but let me ask you talk about the the more they bug you? Will this impact your degree housing in the world and I get sick nickless. Honestly I do because believe me because you'll be just around germs skin germ. Yeah I know what it is. You want. The you want the dog for the the kids yeah the first twenty years of their life no for their immunity. I think my over interestingly health that's not eh mental and physical health. I'm telling you it yeah. There's a reason all dogs go to heaven. I'm going to have to get you all good there. There's there they. Are you know that you you also have a golden retriever went over his head but wonderful little dog got. You quit that I'm GonNa have you done are good for mental health to get you more got three the great to see you will be up next on squawk todd billionaire squawk box veteran Ken langone charity taxes and trump if he was not the president of the United States and and he was your child Hi old you would be very unhappy if he behaves this way instead some of these kids yet I'm David favorite join me crawl into Amihai and Jim Cramer for the opening bell our of CNBC squawk on the street the podcast subscribe for free wherever you listen and you can always catch us live weekdays at nine. Am Eastern this is quite pod squawk box here on NBC. I'm becky quick along with Joe. Kernan and Andrew Ross sorkin governors here. We're having conversation on the Senate chariots. Everybody hit morning air buckle up two hours with cats. I mean this is a breakthrough. That Andrew is here with you and I'm just trying to. Did you not know oh he was going to be here you facing your fears. Are you just decided he didn't do it of Heaven. explicable coincidence is why times I've I've been traveling got to confront the guy you gotta show what can I if I were him. I wouldn't you immediately started on them and and can I just a nice Roy. I know but it can. I ask you a favor. Can you treat him as A. CNBC employees not as an employee of some of the other places that you've already been casting aspersions to him about he's a CNBC and please. He's the squawk box friend who needed that other likes from Tommy those entities out appreciate yeah. Let's just make sure our journalistic standards on this show your show see how don't say stay bring this up at the No. I'm not at the highest level on being PAS. We're going to stay is we're GONNA do we want we want to be the epitome of the journalistic list standards pet all right here we go Ken. LANGONE is a billionaire from humble beginnings as a teenager an immigrant family. He dug ditches for the Long Island Expressway. Hi that was long before he co-founded Home Depot and made his money on Wall Street. He's a veteran a conservative a big believer in the American dream and an even bigger philanthropist and why you lend gone health same guy free tuition at Nyu School of Medicine Yup also Ken Langone has been CNBC guest for decades so our anchors know him pretty well and they're not afraid to debate especially about the Federal Reserve and president trump. Here's part of Kens very spirited two hours onset this morning when it comes to the Fed said you don't necessarily think the Fed should be cutting here. I don't think what this is all about taking an aspirin before you have a headache you take an ask before you gotta headache. Now okay okay. This is what this is but y'all but you know you wanNA. Take you WANNA take the antibiotic before it's like sexist too. I mean you don't you don't WanNa wait until then you need to know resistance to antibiotics and you don't want to wait took it. You don't want to wait until you're actually really sick to take the antibiotic. Look we're rates are art preemptive things where we may or may not be. I the currency thing right. You bought a company closed on it last week. Majority stake in the company two point six three three percent for five years fixed. This is nuts you being given to a gambling attic. Hey here's a million bucks. Go under the Casino and have awesome fun so you don't think the economy warrants. This savings are up. Consumer debt is down equity in in homes are going up and doing Straw the consumer by virtue of their spending ham. Everybody's sort of enthusiastic. I'd be careful about Christmas Christmas but everybody's enthusiastic about this coming Christmas season. I feel pretty good about on. I don't know if I'm at five percent and I don't know where the hell I am but the point is I do know that I think things are pretty good but I think just just to be fair. I think you could genuinely say because I think this is actually how you feel but you don't WanNa they say that you liked the results of of of where the country is today with the president in charge and that you want to give him credit for that but at the same time you don't like the things that he says in the way he behaves no no no no no no words on my matt now he's saying his style is different than line would be and I think I gotta give him the benefit of he's the president of the united the all these people at our after ought understand. He's the president of the United States whomever but I imagine at some level you I know you well enough to know that if he was not the president of the United States and he was your child you would be very unhappy. Happy behaves this way and said some of these Democratic presidential candidate is targeting charitable giving with new taxes. Ed's rapper frank joins us with more abor good morning becky well. The two economists were advising Elizabeth Warren on her. Well tax are now pushing for a tax on charitable giving now Emmanuel Diana's and Gabriel's Lukman at the University of California Berkeley up say that as part of new wealth tax certain types of charity should be taxed to quote curb abuses now the first is private foundations which have about eight hundred fifty billion dollars an asset so bill gates would be tax on his one hundred billion dollars in personal wealth along with the more than forty billion dollars that the bill and Melinda Gates Foundation have that would include of course money given to the foundation by Warren Buffett so buffets wealth would be taxed as part of Gates's Gates's wealth now the second type would be donor advised funds those of course hold about one hundred billion dollars in assets economists say that people who give donor advised funds. We're private foundations still control that money until distributed to charities so quote such wealth constitutes individual power hang on Cam. We're GONNA get not because I knew going to speak up on this and quote it makes sense to make such wealth taxable. Now Warren has not publicly announced how charity would be specifically handled in her wealth tax. The tax is annual tax two percent of wealth over fifty million three percent on wealth over a billion can before you get outraged here. Let me just what they're not what but they're not saying what they're not saying is when you give one hundred million dollars to the Langan. NYU Medical Center or the Harlem Children's Zone that would not be taxed what they're saying is when you put that money in a foundation or a donor advise months which is essentially warehousing that wealth is not going to charity is say that should be taxed because you still control it but it's it's not doing social good. You have a legal obligation once you put it in there yeah payout five percent well with foundations now donor advised fund. That's eight hundred and fifty billion. That's the biggest pece talking about yeah all right daughter advise. I don't understand but we put we've already gotten attention money. That Buffett and bill have put in there yeah five percents. GotTa go out every year correct. Okay that that's automatic. It's a guaranteed they're going to get if they kept it themselves. They have no obligation what say that means ninety. Five percent isn't doing any good and has already been written off and is not being counted as their wealth when it should be let me tell you they control it. The one thing this nation or to reap route of itself around the world and this city is philanthropy. Philanthropy is a decidedly American Eric thing and it's a New York thing and that's why I wanna be clear. They're not saying you should tax the kind of philanthropy that you do. They're saying when you have a foundation that sits there for eternity donor which can point of this 'cause. Maybe it'll help. I think the take help wherever there's a couple all of issues here the first is what I think they're really looking at because I've talked to. I've talked to these folks directly but a lot of people around this issue is folks in a windfall year in a windfall year. Take that money rather than have a taxed put it into their own personal foundation as a result that money effectively does not get tax and is not not used for for for basic services. You get to direct that money however if you're writing by you didn't put it in you don't have the obligation of paying eventually really have to pay it out but the question is in these windfall years. How should people think about that by the way the flip side and I would actually make this argument and Bill Gates has made the argument one of the the reasons that it's one of the one of the biggest challenges is if you have a lot of money is actually giving it away smartly one year forcing people to give the it doesn't sort of a balance here hold on Ken New Jersey Congressman? Josh Got Heimer and our guest. You're the other half of the conversation Ken so you do it but I don't think Josh for necessarily congressman what what's the name of your group You I don. You're you're you're barely Democrat so you're not even going to I don't you you probably not in favor of higher taxes at this point and you see what's happening in New York New Jersey. I mean now Carl icahn gone. do enjoy the his money in Florida well. I'm a proud Democrat but I don't think the answer is all to actually raise taxes on charitable giving. I think that's a big mistake and you'll disincentivize people from giving I think the point is right. You know you've course want to encourage and ensure that money actually gets to charities and goes out the door to help people. That's the purpose of giving but if you make a decision that year to give it to a foundation and to get right right into to make a charitable contribution we should encourage that in fact we should celebrate that and the idea that we do anything to disincentivize it to me is a huge mistake. Let me tell you how I don't have a foundation for one reason. I Want my wife and I we earned to decide words. I don't want to put it into a foundation with fifty. He is later. Somebody's giving something to a cause that I would not have any interest in or I might resent but the bigger issue here to me. Is this believe it or not. I have five years to earn enough money to write off. We make a big for example when we when we've paid all that money to Nyu there was no way I could earn enough money in those causes a thirty percent limit on top of that that was a giveaway with no tax benefit at all. Nothing changed in my life now my wife and my having given up can you're doing it right. The question is what about those who take the to take the tax windfall by the way then they ended up hiring their family members holding they ended up hiring there. Wow yes Clinton being everybody's getting my hand on that that's actually true and it's a problem and it was a big progress in that. She had all of a campaign workers huge problem. The point is there are people who abuse the system. You might not of abuse assistant but there are people who've used if you use the Clintons at US example go for it but my point might Bob Gates and buffet dinner at abusing the system they put billions of dollars argument adamant about the kitchen Buffett's argument about charity Writ Large. There's a lot of wealthy there's a lot of wealthy people who've used charity and abused it paying their families paying planes uh-huh hang for all sorts of things so yes it gets put a charity but all of a sudden. There's cost on top of that charity. I mean let's have a real conversation here about really work. Let me tell you what bothers me a little bit. A lot of these people that are making these decisions will give you all Bob Y. You can eat the nothing. That's a charity okay. They haven't given a nickel away. Yes they're sitting here saying be careful. It works in America philanthropies will go to college. I agree with that. I think we have to make sure that I think has making a great point. We gotta be very careful with anything we do. We should make sure there's no abuse we should make sure the money guests to charity but I think we have to be very careful not to do anything though disincentivize charitable giving just like we should find every which way the judge said bring tax cuts back and I mean we should be looking at all of these things because you want a wealth tax and Elizabeth Warren Wealth Tax or you're going to get you know the answer to that of course. I don't believe in that you know I I think we need to make sure that we will we met. We should look for Berge you every time you're gonNA say that. The Republicans are leaving the lights on for when you come home physically responsible Democrats body for your Josh when you come out of a classic but stick check with charitable giving today okay thank you next on Squawk Todd documentary filmmaker Ken Burns on Country Music's connection to commerce commerce. He'd Jangled the change in his pocket. He said that's the Nashville dollars dreams and heartbreak after this this taking you behind the sounds of squawk box. CNBC here's our green room at the Nasdaq market site in Times Square. My name is Ken Burns. I'm at Squawk box. We're GONNA talk about the business of Country Music I've just finished he'd part sixteen our series series on the history of country music for PBS than is being broadcast this week next week while we've tried to adopt as a posture of sharing very complicated stories whatever ever might be in our history standby joe three to one of our next guest new film documents the roots of country music sick in the start of music as a business in this country let's welcome documentary filmmaker Ken Burns whose new film for PBS's Country Music and anybody that that seen anything you've done can I could watch anything you've done but this. This really appeals me to sixteen hours. It's always it's not enough time not enough touch session. It's a two eight two hours. One is a little bit more than that. I was totally surprised by the African American influence on early country music about the role of women strong women from the beginning the original American guitarist is May Bell Carter of the Carter family about the tensions between commerce and creativity but I was not prepared for the Emotion Child of R&B and Rock and roll the the emotion in this when you hear Hank Williams say the silence of a falling star lights up a purple sky as I wonder where you are. I'm so lonesome I could cry. Hi this tree next with music which is the fastest art form there is and it is one of the dominant art forms right now musical uniquely the American Israel. You can really just to but jazz has spread to become a global so they're all the same. They're all variations of the same thing and we tend to think that jazz are that country music is a separate one thing it's not an island nation you don't need a visa or passport it abuts jazz and Blues and Rhythm Blues and Rhythm and Blues. It's the parent of rock and roll and it abuts country and Gospel and folk and classical and rap and all these things then if you've seen walk the line or or any johnny cash you know it can be. He's the he's the patriarch of the whole story here we start with the Carter family which he marries into and we the end with his death at the highlight of his career when he's working with the rap and hip hop producer Rick Rubin and with Trent Resin her so you know there's no borders in country music again. That's interesting commerce and convenience categorizes this stuff into these categories that just don't work do per person. It's not Jesus that that is awning. It's unbelievable he insisted on doing a gospel thing in every show he ever did and every one of his TV and then there are struggles ruggles to as you point out waylon and Willie go to Nashville. They'RE NOT GONNA fit in there so willy goes to Nashville and can't make even fact gets drunk and goes out and lays out in the middle ah Broadway out outside of these loans expecting to be run over he wakes up comes back leaves Nashville and can make it in Texas and he warns his Buddy Waylon. Don't go wayland goes and says I'm doing it on my terms and totally revolutionizes artists control of where they can record who they can record with what kind of production action values that they're going to have and so that outlaw movement as much of a celebrating its otherness was actually a wholesale takeover of the music business business redneck. I mean this most surprise people come from the mountains of Virginia my granddaddy and stuff like that it was in your book. It's in my blood but it's in all of our blood because it's connected. It's connected aren't what's the origin so the origin is essentially an intersection of commerce and technology when you've got a phonograph which has been around for a few decades and you've got this new medium of radio in the nineteen twenties. You've got what we're called race records meaning the blues who's being sold and then broadcast and then somebody said well I wonder if there's a market for this old time hill country music which then became hillbilly music which which then became country and western which then became just country and so the creativity and commerce went hand in hand. Sometimes they fought sometimes they didn't win. Rock and roll was dominant in the fifties and country music sales dive Nashville scrambled and started producing what was called the Nashville sound having smoother strings no fiddles having backup singers not scratchy nasal voices and harmonies and somebody asked Chet Atkins a great producer. What is the Nashville sound and he'd Jangled the the change in his pocket? He said that's the Nashville sound can't meaning business opposition from the beginning all of these things coincide I if you can't you're not reaching people unless you're in concert with a business formula and sometimes that works to the arts detriment. Sometimes it works. Is this respective house country done relative to the others so right now right now. It's huge hip hop secondment or up yeah yeah but I think Papa Papa I mean the gulf between we're country is relative to rap and hip hop. Vic is a relatively close yeah yeah and it wasn't always at this hillbilly music looked down upon by most people but the Songwriter Harlan Howard called it three chords and the truth it acknowledges its musical simplicity but that truth part means that it speaking about universal human emotions that we all feel like I'm so lonesome I could cry about love and loss and it's only because we don't deal with that that we disguise it and say it's about pickup trucks and good old boys and hound dogs and six packs of beer. There's a minor sub-genre of country. That's about that but most of it is about these bums on the break lake. You're even mentioning songs that are specific to the intimate relationships between men and women and country has been able to do that the way R. and B. and I'll tell you something when when Ray Charles had creative control of an album for the very first time in his distinguished professional life he shocked everybody in his crowd by recording modern sounds in country and western music and the number one hit of the summer of nineteen sixty two was. I can't stop loving you a country Song Edward Don Gibson go back and listen to that this morning and that's a country song sung by a soul singer but it's a country. I'm kidding. This must be a lot of video civil civil war. You need to know how and couldn't get an interview with Abraham Lincoln exactly but I couldn't stop watching that even though it was all that was so this must you must I have this is all we got one hundred interviews. Only one of them's a historian the rest are the singers themselves who know their history as good as any historian. We've lost twenty of those those people including Merle haggard who are getting for he passed away. We had a thousand hours of footage that we distill down. We looked at one hundred thousand photographs autographs and US thirty three hundred in the final film and we listened to thousands of pieces of music for the five hundred eighty four music cuts that are in Iraq Iraq either the Stones Jones. Everyone of the Beatles got into music through country Music Ringo. It was gene autry cowboy stuff George Harrison Persson Jimmy Rogers Jimmie Rodgers and the guitar playing of Chet Atkins for Paul McCartney is the ballads of Marty Robbins and of course John John Lennon it was Hank Williams. I'm so lonesome I could cry. It's powerful and I know you president a big. I made it for are Andrew. I didn't make it for you because I knew shooter. You got what hanks online this fourth generation his granddaughter Charlie last night was our third episode called Hillbilly Shakespeare and she ends the whole episode by singing a Cappella. I'm so lonesome I could cry and there's not a dry. I got more texts and emails than for any film I've made less from people saying I was in tears. I didn't think I like country music. I literally okay. I made it for you. Can you can dream it. It's a PBS. He did a nice simply. I appreciate working for eight and a half buddy. I'm just qualified you might believe in the American dream again. That Ken Burns thank you Burns country music is on PBS stations streaming online align Ken Ken Incan can can with this that's Today's podcast on our rundown tomorrow a special episode from CNBC's PC's annual delivering Alpha Conference will be on location at the Pierre Hotel Manhattan Joe Becky and Andrew will interview some of the day speakers plus. We'll take you behind the scenes with our production. Assistant join us for the Insights Wall Street is waiting for Squawk box is hosted by Joe Kernan becky quicken Andrew Ross sorkin tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at six am eastern to get the smartest takes an analysis from our T._v.

CNBC Squawk box Andrew Ross Sorkin Country Music Becky Kate Ken Burns Federal Reserve United States CNBC Ken langone president Nashville Ken Ken Incan New York Joe Kernan bill gates PBS Joe Becky Andrew
Remembering John Prine and Bill Withers

Rolling Stone Music Now

41:34 min | 1 year ago

Remembering John Prine and Bill Withers

"Brian Hi this is rolling stone music now coming at you. One more time remotely. You're on a rainy day in New York when this crisis started to break out I had a lotta thoughts for what to do with rolling stone music now and hopefully we'll still find some fun things to do but it seems like we are grappling with a bunch of obituaries. Today we're GONNA be talking about two legends bill withers and John Prien. We're GONNA start with the weather's we have some pretty amazing audio from Andy. Green's interview with bill withers and build died from heart problems. They had nothing to do with Kobe. Correct any yes. Yes and day. Now Bill withers was a unique figure for a lot of reasons. He started his career in his thirties after he'd already kind of worked blue collar jobs and then he quit his career after some amazing success and you spent a bunch of time with them a few years ago and that's the interview. We're going to hear. What was it like to to go up there? What was your time with him like I. It was a big fan and he's never done much press presence. It was first Abe intimidating but he was very warm in very honest and very funny and full surprises. I mean He. He talked a lot about loving the Big Bang theory of the legal back and forth three talking about sitcoms and talking about all the intense racism that he experienced during his career so it was a lot. He was an amazing now. What was the real reason? Behind his his long break from the music industry was part of it because he was so frustrated with his struggles as label. He started on a small indie label. That's called Sussex and complete control there but they went bankrupt and he went to Columbia Seventy five and they were like you know they're a huge organization and they're all of our guys there and they made his life miserable and they pushed him to be more black as he put it orange on his songs and these intros and he hated it he was miserable and he hated the industry and he would rather quit than part of it basically he had these nerdy white guys telling him how to be. Black. Basically is kind of horrifying situation. Yeah it would horrify and historians. They were heroin and he also made a ton of money because he wrote always on science so he lean on me. You know a million movies in his real estate eight around La in seventies and you know he lived his Arian House in the hills. He was very comfortable and style reason to working. Here's an interesting somewhere interesting artist in party. Kind of reminded me of James Taylor. He was not working as much as he was seen as an army guy and he wasn't. R&b Guy. I don't think he was in. So it was James Taylor in a way. I feel like they were actually as close to each other. As as any two artists in the seventies if you know what I'm in Yeah I think that's fair that they both fuse. John Ras in very in very interesting ways and they wrote great songs that were drawn out of their life. Experiences and pretty intense wants to inquest. Love who destroyed a great new appreciation of him for rolling stones can be in our next issue and online kind of compared him to Bruce Springsteen said he was kind of like the for for black people in America. He was this kind of a working man's hero. He wasn't unearthly like a Michael Jackson or or something like that. He really was just a work a day genius. But what's funny is springsteen. He's haunted him that when he got on Columbia was born to run off and the executives. There they were so focused on springsteen that he felt that he was getting. You know not much attention. Yeah that's I'm sure. Bruce is not super happy about that. If you heard about that but let's hear Andy. Greens meeting with Bill. Weather's set the scene a little bit. For What What you guys were doing when you when you guys were talking at this point where we are you. Sure it was twenty fifteen. He was a few months away from inducted in the hall of fame which was a useful for him and the first day I sat with him at his house for hours and we talked was very casual. We got dinner at restaurants and this was day to where I sat down and conducted a formal interview. And we're we're we were living room as all right. Let's hear Andy Green and the late. Great Bellwethers you're still working your job while you're my first. I'm covered was taken on my lunch break at my job. That's why I'm standing there with a lunch bucket. And what did you tell your coworkers? You're making it album to zone Sun. So they they were making fun of me. They thought it was. You know your card by night or on weekends work at night you know and he gave you. You know it was Boca. John's with great producer was great. It was great musicians. They obviously thought that this may be something. They gave you. Top eight talent to work on the album. If you're right there was a how they'll influence. Clarence was friends without bill because I think he had approached people like bones how people and nobody wanted to work with me so I think bill continued here. I think Steve is still just walking down the hallway in Boca asked him if he would come in and play so. How'd you feel the studio? When you're with Stephen Stills and booker t Jones now superstars. Were you intimidated at all or out of the now? You GotTa Stan my job as a singer so lead the ban so if you don't have confidence enough to step saying this generally not a background right so there's a certain there's a certain trepidation. I was very fortunate in that grand. Nash I'll never forget him. I will always love him for the he came and sat down in front of me and he said you don't know how good you are. And he was very encouraging. He sat right in front of me. So yeah I was happy to be to be that but I had to get over that very quickly because you figure we're doing my songs. I lean instrument on this thing so I gotta get over. Whatever I gotTA play right. You know it's like a guy that intercepted that pass to win the Super Bowl. Actually he was because he was a rookie but hats off to him because he knew in his mind. I gotTA play right. And they're split second second change your life. You make one decision moment when people so one somebody throws you in you know and it was fine because nobody on my job if I told him if I need you don't know those guys but I haven't put that aside because first of all you have to be brave enough to say okay. Everybody I got this song. We're GONNA play this song that I wrote will. They're just went. You seen in the back right there. You automatically trust yourself. That front and courage is not being afraid. It's what you do when you afraid. So you gotta get over that and play right. Do you recall writing. Ain't no sunshine. How that that title image guided in Your Head? Let House watching. Tv One roses or something. And somehow a this interplay between Lee remaking Jack Lemmon the back and forth. So thanks. Cross your mind Timmy. Songwriting is something. Crosses the amount for me did you. How did YOU CERTIF- work? My thing is always been. If it's not worth remembering is not worth much because if you think something has value you don't forget right so in you just learn how to pick a car like not that long before this right or is that I never mind. I still don't know how to play guitar but I have years. So I know that attached this and text and other key touching stuff until it sounds good to me when I made enough money. I bought a piano and I went and I started going up and then I would lean on me so you don't have to be virtuoso and to write a song right now and you put a harpen year yeah. I don't know anything about a heart if I wanted a song from that harp within the next hour so I would figure out a way to do it. I'd be able to play the whole. You know yeah in an orchestra because the instrument is the lead instrument which is the voice. You know what I mean right. And they know sunshine it. Sorta starts on Your Voice Start Cappella right. I mean and they had to do that to sort of start that it's just the way it is. You know it's the way I felt that. I don't have this great analytical thing. I'm not burdened by that's why was funny when I went to a larger companies at the a our guys which I had antagonistic and redundant my good friend Bobby. Columbus says A. N. R. Stands for always wrong. Well that you show by kids spill so Standard questions they would ask. How long the intro? Are you going to put any horns on it? And at that point my whole career started with no intro and no warns you know so I decided they were right so I was glad that I had that beginning over here with this. Organic smaller company. Were people right so the first album by took off the job immediately or long. Keep working at your job now. Well the job was gone. It was been laid off aerospace right. Tim Letters on the same day wanted to come back to my job. And the other one from the giant asking if I would come on Johnny Carson show and Carson Yeah I don't have that personality to where I get. You know I'm not the guy that jumps up and starts running around read at the end of the game. You know sheriffs guy wants to gain extra backfired to hear music on the radio on Carson. Everything that must have been whereas there's only two choices and the others as opposed to what not. Yeah you know. So I'm I'm not a cheerleader. Kinda guy you so if somebody's waiting for me to go I'm so excited about it. I'm not built that way. I don't have that gene. So how'd you like change? When you're when you're off changed jobs changed jobs. Things the obvious things change you know requirements on. You changes your income changes. Your you know how people look at you changes. Those are pretty standard changes. We happier now. I was really pissed off. I gotTa hit record you really fulfil by all this but was this what you wanted or you know. We'll there's only do joys full failed or you're right. It's an obvious you know Mike. I Sam about the cheerleader guy. Right this is going to jump up and run around around more right. I'm sure felt good right. Yeah I live. Touchdown dances you right pursue something. Hopefully you pursue something out of optimism or at least I well if you pursue something out of optimism. You can't be totally shocked if it happens. Yeah so you were relieved. You know you relief so with. Lena does remind the piano right assertive. When you first start you remember. Let's put you in that famous line to sign a friendship sort of spark that I don't know like I said I walked around and things cross my mind. I try not to be too analytical about it because it wouldn't be magic anymore. If I figured out how I do yeah but are you will recall city down. And I sorta figured out those parts piano individualized that moment in your life is not in the figure out. I didn't change fingers just went one. Two three four up and down the piano lot of children come up and say that's the first summer I learned to play and I was like well. Don't congratulate yourself release. You could make a play that but after he was finished. Did you see it at a special song that might really resonate? I don't remember any song that are finished that I didn't think it was a special some Other people see it. That way is another thing right. You can get some drug addict if he comes up and he starts singing you this song he wrote. He thinks it's a special sewn right. People who write songs always think it's a special right so you'd see to something. That was a different kind of thing. That really could've been a radio. Hit or anything that strike you as something? That could really work. You know I think Atlanta guys at the Record Company Ron Moseley Clarence. Avon those guys. They thought it was more and then as a disc jockey up their name Rick holds and he was singling out they seem to gravitate towards it but each thing I think has its own challenge you you know what I mean so you can't be on both ends of right. You know you know you can't be on both ends of everything so after your first few has to detail any pressure to follow up with more hits. Did he feel? There's sort of that spotlight on you. Had bigger and he had asserted that to keep living with the pressure on you know after my first few hits the pressure on me was my God damn record companies going bankrupt and now I gotta go find a new police so there was all that me. She got them right so I didn't have a luxury of you know ruminate known all right. I went to the trauma of Company. Going out of business so then he signed to Columbia in seventy five and I didn't go as well as that was that was it was a game of the new environment is a no environment from before. I was basically left to people waiting to see what I was. GonNa do so. I got to the point where there were people trying to tell me what to do you know. There's a great baseball engineering. Jim Palmer Hall of Fame Guy. Great pitcher and he was saying about as managing the only thing you know about pitching was that he couldn't hit so then all of a sudden this new corporate situation with a whole anr guys who had all tried to be some kind of artist right and then they thought that new so this game the questions. How long does he info? Or you'RE GONNA put any Horn Joan. I think he should cover some Elvis Presley songs or some shit. You actually people trying to find songs from me right when you're sawyer you know it's like buying a bartender drink. You was what it was and I was what I was right man. You know anywhere you get this worth. Wow this is kind of pivotal time for me. Some of it is because of some of it is inspired. So I don't think about this stuff. I think about those people. I'm Brian. Hi You listening to Rolling Stone Music. Now we just had Andy Green talking to the late bill withers and unfortunately it's a busy time for this kind of thing. We lost one of the most beloved songwriters of all time John Trying to complications of covert nineteen. We have with us today. Patrick Doyle who got to know Jam Ryan really well in the past few years and thought we'd have Patrick talked about what the was like. Talk prime importance all that stuff. Welcome Patrick thanks. Brian appreciate it. So tell me how you first met prying for feature few years ago. What went down will. This was before he put out his last album. Which was the tree forgiveness? Which kind of jump started his career again? So this was before that around twenty sixteen and I just had been hearing his name a lot like I went to a deer tick show and they did a John Prime Song and I just kind of wanted to know who he was and I think Dylan gave a quote about him around the same time and I just heard him mentioned by a lot of great songwriters so I just checked his music out and was pretty floored by. It was a pretty crazy thing. I went home to Maine et Cetera. Et funeral in prime was playing that night. I never never heard him before. So I went to the show and it just really kind of spoke to me and and his songs. He wrote songs like nobody else could write really from the perspective of different different people. That didn't really have a voice in songs. He wrote about people that he knew in the Midwest wrote from the perspective of of a woman on Angel from Montgomery he wrote about an old couple and it was just just a completely different from any music I heard before what was also really simple sounded like standards like like Hank Williams are or would he got three or something. I just thought this guy was a genius. That's the general consensus really. Yeah he was and he spoke like one. Everything he said was a a song. I actually I went down to spend time with them for the future and it a little bit like a work didn't know if they wanted to send me an ot. It didn't seem super timely. It was sort of one of those long term projects that were they were interested but people had heard of prime and while and he hadn't come out with that album and I just had so much fun spending time with him I went down. We got MEATLOAF together. We went to his office. Which was just this little store. Run out of Nashville Little home run out of East Nashville. Germantown neighborhood and he was just this little home operation that they booked shows directly with the promoters. He didn't was not on a major label. It was all done by his family. And that's the way he did business and he sort of looked at his career kind of like a a turtle like is just go. Slow and steady but then that resulted in a great career because he he didn't never had a hit but he said because he never had a hit. He was sort of He wasn't frozen in time so he was able to sort of his songs. Were able to find relevance throughout all over time. It's on your flag. Decal won't get you into heaven anymore. Which he wrote back in nineteen seventy one. A lot of people were saying on on Youtube. Just replace the word flag DECAL WITH MAKE AMERICA. Great great again hat and the song works just as well. He was just a great person to spend time with and so much fun. We grow around in Cadillac. We went into went to a record store and he tried to find his own record and couldn't find it because you so obscure he just made fun of all that he was just. He was a blast. It was like hanging out with Bob like someone we work with said. Who's from the Midwest that it's like if Bob Dylan was you're you're really cool neighbor? Who happened to be a genius? Yeah who happen to be a genius. Yeah so take us through John Cryan story. He was known as a singing mailman at the beginning of his career. At least according to that headline that Roger Ebert put on this story he wrote about him early on prime grew up in Maywood Illinois suburb of Chicago and his parents were from From Kentucky so they actually really considered themselves Kentucky and so they they would go to these family reunions where they played bluegrass. And that's how John Really got exposed to that music and his dad was a huge fan of Hank Williams and Jimmie Rodgers. John was really frightening to impress his dad. Every he wrote that Song Paradise about those family reunions and he played it for his dad before the album came out in his dad cried and that was the proudest moment of his career. He said that he thought if he put his dad in a song dad would think he was as good as Hank Williams. So so He became a mailman because he is grades. What really bad. He said his grades were real. Ugly was the term. He put an email man and he was not a good mailman. He was a really bad man. He said he said he yelled out past dark fumbling through his his sack trying to find lighting to see the addresses because it took so long but he wrote a lot of songs on that mail route he would go into a little booth where they collected male and he would write songs about the people he saw on the mail route like the old couple that one of the only old couples he he ran into. I think it was a conglomeration of people but he wrote about those people in the song. Hello in there and he wrote Angel from Montgomery about a lonely housewife was trapped in a marriage and these were people who weren't really getting songs written about them and that's when people like Bonnie Raitt heard though she ended up covering angel from Montgomery end up really that became friends biggest hit in kind of gave him a new a new life as an artist. So you started writing those songs. He started playing them very late. I guess when he was like you've been in some way for ten years but had never played played a show but around. I each twenty three or so twenty four. He played an open mic night. And everyone there was silent and he thought the songs were terrible but it turned out that they were just kind of stunned at how What he was writing about because he went to the army before that in wrote Sam Stone which is a a song about a veteran who gets addicted to morphine and sort of comes back from. He comes back physically but not mentally from the war in a lot of that was not being written about. Ptsd was not something being written about. Nineteen seventy-one so Roger. Ebert walked into one of those shows. He was floored by Rote He wrote an article called. The singing. Mailman delivers the message. And shortly after that. I just WANNA stop on sandstone for a minute. Because that as one of the probably one of the most famous couplets the seventies a there's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes Jesus Christ died for nothing I suppose Which caused a lot of controversy when when he played it live his sometimes country leaning audience. And it's also like the way he sings it. Because that's one of those things where I read about that line. As with a lot of sort of critically regarded music. I read about it way before I heard it. You know what I mean because I was very quoted line and then it's so much better than what he sings it because of how tossed off it. Sounds you know what I mean right that I try to write that line and it doesn't work. Yeah so you know. And it's also it's the line of a young songwriter. Who is in that moment of like no fear and who who's looking for who wants to like throw all of his talent in your face. You don't write a line like that without knowing that it's going to get some attention. Yeah Yeah yes sorry go on with your mail about that that line and even even now people will write him and say Mr Ryan. I love your lyrics but I cannot not listened to that song and even actually Johnny cash covered Sam stone and he He but he had just written religious book at the time and he said to John. I cannot sing that line. Jesus Christ died for nothing I suppose you. Can you write a different line for me? And John said he knows that we're any other artist. He would have said get lost but it was his hero. Johnny Cash Lee said so trying suggested that he write. Asahi's vote you close with your your daddy right. Chun Johnny Cash said Yeah so then he's all right about that so then instead of Jesus Christ died for nothing I suppose Johnny Cash wrote. Daddy must have hurt. Hurt a lot back then. I suppose it's actually a great version of the song. It's on alive Johnny Cash Record Nineteen Ninety four or something like that. I think it was your story where I read. And it's a great profile. Patrick you have to check it out if you haven't read it but your story of red. I think that's already did this. Great thing we're we're when prien saw Illan and Johnny cash performed together or listen to Nashville skyline. Whatever it was he like. That's where I live. That's the thing I can do where those to meet and I thought that was fascinating. I know and if you saw John Live that made sense because he had sort of like a an old fifty s son record style rockabilly kind of band like he didn't when I first saw me didn't even have a drummer. It was awesome. The drummer was awesome but it was really cool to see him just like stand up. Bass and guitar player. John Prime. What's interesting to put him in the context of the early seventies when he was seen as as a new dylan along with springsteen and a few others and when springsteen paid tribute to him he mentioned like they were sort of in the new Dylan Club. Together and of course. There's that picture which we've talked about of Prime Dylan and springsteen but Dylan and springsteen or the one engaging in price kind of standing back kind of smiling awkwardly. It was an interesting dynamic there. Yeah there's an amazing photo from backstage at Rolling Thunder tour and it's a springsteen Dylan in prion and that is really interesting because like you know we knew what was happening springsteen's career in nineteen seventy five or seventy. Six and Dylan's in. That photo was taken the day that John Walked into the office. And said I don't WanNa be on your your label Atlantic records anymore Sorry I jumped ahead. Take us back to where you were out narrative. Yeah okay will so John was was Was Playing these clubs and Roger. Ebert walked in and wrote that article in the in that really jump started everything and then of all people Kris Kristofferson. Who is who is one of John? Favorite Song Writers and Paul Anka. It who were hanging out together day came into the club. Steve Goodman who is a really good friend. John's convince them both to come and see John Play And the club was was was pretty much empty by that time and John got up and played seven songs for them in Pretty Much Empty Club. And and that's what. Christopher said it was like we were seeing Bob Dylan for the first time they Invited John Back to hang out eventually. and became his manager for a brief time which didn't work exactly. They Anka's sued John in his new manager for but for a million dollars and John was freaking out. He was playing. He was playing at Lincoln Center. I think for the first time and they got a check from Paul Anka a a notice saying that he was being sued and John was freaking out in John's new manager. Albina said what do you mean? Why are you nervous? This means we're worth a million dollars just so Christoffersen and a Paul. Anka walked into the club and they saw them play. They were floored by him Christopherson invited John onstage at the bitter in New York and it was Christofferson was the hottest thing in music at the time the end so it was it was a big night for him to be playing this kind of tiny show in New York and all Atlantic records was there. Jerry Wexler was there so prime he brought Christoffersen brought Paul Pride on stage and the next morning. Jerry Wexler s prime to come to his office and offered him a contract with Atlantic records and Prien had been performing for just a few months. He was had just started showing his songs to to even his brother had never heard him write songs before that And said that his talent came out of nowhere he. He had no idea that he had this talent. So it was just a complete John said it was like a dream like he came in New York for the first time within twenty four hours he had a contract with Atlantic records and all of a sudden he was going to be the next the next one of the best Music so it was a it was a big deal for him and he was not an ambitious performer. Who who wanted to be on a major label. He was happy being a mailman playing on weekends in me made more money from playing than he did as a mailman so he was just thrilled with that life and one thing he said to me was that he feels like those songs that he wrote for. That first album had like an innocence about them and he was never able to get back to that place after he had success and he put out an album that there was something about that that fearlessness that you talked about what he says Sam Stone. Line stuff like that. I mean John wrote pretty much. Every song he put out is good and great. It's like if especially if you take away the production of a few eighties. Just those songs straight up acoustic. They're all classics like he's not. He's Todd Snider. Was saying he's like sturdiest guy like he did not put out anything bad. Which is the eighties? Were a dark decade for a Lotta people but but anyway Prime he went on the road with like Bonnie Raitt and Steve Goodman he was he became this kind of storyteller. He was nervous on stage so he would have to tell a lot of stories in between to sort of get people laughing and he said he needed to tell those stories have some comedy in there because when he said a line like Jesus Christ I for nothing I suppose it was much more impactful. You couldn't just come out and and hit them over the head with Heavy material all the time so it was this balanced that he did. That was really special as his live albums. I really recommend going on spotify. There's two really good ones on on spotify now. One significant turning point in his life is when he got sick. Yeah yeah well John once he left Atlantic records and he was on David. Geffen's label asylum for a little while. But he he kind of was much more comfortable. Living Nashville being Being just like one of the songwriters in town and Co writing with people and just kind of His his house would be open at all hours for anyone to stop by and he would get a Turkey going at like midnight and everyone coming out of their open MIC nights would stop by and Turkey at his place so he was living this bachelor life for a while but he. He met a Fiona in the late eighties and Fiona They were together from nineteen eighty eight until this year and she became his manager. Eventually But you know John this huge shift. He was not forty eight years old and had never had any kids or anything and then Fiona had two boys to get so John McCain a dad and ray after that he got sick so he like the year after Nineteen The kids were like a year or two old anyway so so he didn't really Get a chance to settle in and enjoy that. He he got really sick. He had staged for cancer. So certain kind of throat throat. Cancer and Nick cut a big chunk out of his neck because of his neck. Yeah they cut the and the took a year and a half for him to recuperate and He didn't perform and his voice changed. He didn't know if he was going to be able to perform Again and so he he booked a tiny show. He went on stage in Bristol. Tennessee think and decided to just try it and he said his his his songs sounded all brand new again because he was singing in a new key in actually they sounded better in the crowd was like like really there with him. According to your story where? The doctor was concerned that he wouldn't be able to sing again. He's doctor. Have you heard me sing. A you know. He didn't. He didn't try to hide what was wrong with his neck or anything he said he. A people suggested he wear a turtleneck. I don't I don't care I just I. I am who I am and kids. Were like fascinated with him The way is he looked like no one else he. He was an incredible like just looked at him and you knew that he he was a special person but tell me about his life by the time you got to him because he kinda settled into being like the genius next door just living in. Nashville where he was by the way you know. I think probably most appreciated I think that in the country world although US appreciate it a lot of places but I think he was most understood in the country world who really understood what was special about him and there he was like in the middle of Nashville. So what was his life like by the time he got him. Well I had seen him play at that theatre had no. I knew that he he was playing like least twelve hundred seat places so he he had a great a great lead he would basically Hang out during the week in Nashville shooting pool with friends or going to have a drink bar this place this pool hall or or going to get meatloaf and just kind of putter around town all week and then on Thursday nights he would go to the airport and get on a plane and fi- to a kind of a place like Portland Maine or like where I saw him or Madison. Wisconsin all these places where the pockets of of prime fans and he would sell the theater out and would drive two hundred miles and play another show. Then he'd fly home on Sunday and then he would hang out all week so it was like the best. He'd never had to go on a huge marathon crazy tour. He had a schedule worked out and would go with him and they would go on these adventures together and it was really hard work from spending time with him and going. I have gone on those those little weekend runs with him. It's so much work getting to the first place. Then you have to figure if to go to the two hundred miles for him to perform at seventy two seventy three years old after being all those health issues doing that every weekend is it was amazing to watch and he would his shows towards the end got more and more more intense like he came out with the album the tree of forgiveness in the he had a song called When I get to heaven and he would he would do this amazing monologue about what he what he wants his afterlife to to be like he said he would buy he would open up. A bar called the tree of forgiveness. Check INTO A HOTEL. See his Older aunts and brothers and and he would do Song called Lake Marie and he would He dance off. Stage and the shows had electric portion. He would stripped all acoustic a whole surprise. Said he didn't know what he was going to play and just he'd ended up dancing on stage and he would do. Paradise was huge. Sing along with this song about his. Dad's that song about his dad's hometown went down to west palm backwards. So so anyway. When I when I met him he was sort of like the IT UP. He had it all worked out and he had two kids who were in their early twenties and he had the everything was working well with the label after a lot of turmoil after the death of his his manager. Albina who banished him for for decades and they didn't know what was going to happen and so and and his family took over the label and they got John to go back into the studio for It was the first time that he had. He had written any new songs in in at least thirteen years but he he went in and recorded his first album of new songs and thirteen years and basically he had all these these boxes of of little things he had jotted down in in like grocery boxes and stuff in and just kind of feeling made him check into The the Omni think down in Nashville and just slake she convinced him to go in and he he checked him for four days and he put those lyrics together and ordered a bunch of room service and came out with with with with a to try to break writer's block with the idea. Yeah I think so. He had all this genius stuff written down and but he just didn't he could not bring himself to to finish a song and he said it was the scariest thing in the world. He said that he didn't want to compete with his old material And he didn't he you know he wanted to be really really good when I when I'm not with him for the first time he had. He said that he had a lot of stress about that. About coming up with something that was worthy of of showing his fans who he felt like he owed a lot to So he came out went to that hotel and came up forties later had the majority of that record written and he put that record out in twenty eighteen and it went to number five on the billboard like the billboard two hundred and he in an he had never had a He he never had success anywhere near that his first record when it came out it went to like number one hundred fifty or something. I saw this record all those classic songs on it. Yeah Yeah and so. This one went to number five the day it came out. I believe he played at Radio City and stirred Simpson opened for him and it was sold out show and that was the beginning of that tree or tree forgiveness tour. Which is the tour. He was on all the way until his death. I just I was talking to his his tour manager and Fiona and it just it sounds like the show that he played in Paris. The final show on February thirteenth was one of his best shows and and He he was so happy to play Paris and he'd always wanted to play and he never had played there and So he played that show that he was surprised. There was a sold out. Audience there for him and it was. It was just a really special night so that was that was. Everyone's happy that he got to do that. He'd always wanted to play Paris. Yeah for sure and Patrick has another article coming out about I guess Prinze last days so look for that and this has been today's episode Rolling Stone Music now. Patrick thanks so much for joining us. Thanks France appreciate it and we'll be back next week here on Sirius. Xm Channel One. Oh six in the meantime. We are podcast. Subscribe to us as a podcast. Where everybody get your podcasts. Maybe we this view on itunes if you cannot. You've got so much free time but as always thanks for listening. Please stay safe and we will see next week.

John Nashville Bruce Springsteen Andy Green Bob Dylan Rote He Patrick Doyle Roger Ebert bill withers Steve Goodman John Prien Chun Johnny Cash Fiona They Brian New York James Taylor Johnny Carson John Ras army Johnny Cash Lee
Episode 1: The Killing Zone

Lost Hills?

42:39 min | Last month

Episode 1: The Killing Zone

"Pushkin wanna hear something amazing discover matches all the cash back you earn on your credit card at the end of your first year automatically with no limit on how much you can earn. How amazing is that in fact. It's even more amazing because you can earn cash back on every purchase groceries clothing and in the past year probably about new streaming service. And when your first year wraps up only discover will match all the cash. Back you've earned at the end of your first year learn more at discover.com/match limitations apply Mountain lions they're hunting in the dark after dusk and in the early morning hours right before the sun comes up the hills above malibu california are full of them. they're vicious predators but they're so shy that the wildlife biologists who study them call them ghost cats. If you hike in the hills surrounding malibu you probably haven't seen him on lion but one has almost certainly seen you hemmed in by freeways and expanding suburbia the mountain. Lions are stressed. half crazy. A few years ago. I wrote a story about them for the new yorker where i work. The people in malibu were really upset especially about a rogue lion known as p. forty five which was slaughtering pedal packages and many horses seemingly for sport. There is a huge debate over who was to blame for these deaths. A murderous lion or the people who had left their pats unprotected in lion country. One morning i went out searching for evidence of lions in the mountains near malibu creek state park i was with one of the wildlife biologists and we were gonna tangle of branches in bushes looking at a dried out deer carcass a month old lion. Kill this question just popped into my head so i asked him. Hey you ever find a dead body out here. He turned and looked at me so strangely he was going to stick to talking about lions. No comment on what humans might do in these hills fifteen years living in los angeles. I've logged a decent amount of time in malibu sometimes reporting but mostly just taking my kids for afternoons at the beach. You know malibu. It's paradise the ocean. The mountains the honey colored light celebrities and surf bums and laid back billionaires people with prayer beads and private security. It's like a postcard of itself. The real gidget is a hostess at a local restaurant and you could. Easily run into kim kardashian at the sushi bar but often in malibu i get this unsettling sensation that there's something else there underneath that pretty surface something elusive and slightly menacing a riptide an undertow and i can never quite shake the feeling that the places warning me to go away. Here's what i know when i start all this. It's not a lot. It was before sunrise. June twenty second two thousand eighteen and the campground at malibu creek state park was packed. It's an idyllic spot. Campsites are arranged in a ring around. A large meadow dotted with oak trees jagged peaks zigzag across the open sky. It was four in the morning. Still doc everyone was inside their nylon tencent. Rv's cozy in their sleeping bags for a couple more hours but someone was awake watching silent undetected slipping shadow like around the sleeping campground. He had a gun and he fired a directly into one family's tent inside. The tent was a man named tristan. Baudat a brilliant young research scientist thirty five years old. He was sleeping beside his two little girls. The bullet struck his forehead killing him. And whoever did it slipped away into the darkness It's like a story. That's meant to terrify you playing on your deepest fears a store you tell around a campfire with ghosts and murderers and things. You can't explain except that this story is true and once i heard it i couldn't stop thinking about it. How did this happen. How does anything like this happen in malibu of all places but it did happen in malibu and as it come to find out inexplicable nightmarish. Things happen in malibu all the time tonight a mystery in malibu driver found a man dead in a ditch loss vs canyon road. There've also been nine additional calls for shots fired. I just don't feel safe anymore. working now. a homicide investigation. We do have a nude body and it's still unclear exactly how it got here. It is a suspicious death. The human bones were just a half mile from the trail head. We possibly somebody screaming for detectives tonight trying to figure out who he is and who killed him. I'll tell you what they'll be standing with pitchforks outside law so sheriff's department hollered. Are you all right. I'm just resting pumping like that once. She left she just disappeared. I'm a good year. And this is lost hills episode one the killing zone. Would you guys Start by saying your names and what. Your relationship is to tristan scott mccurdy. I'm kristen's brother-in-law. And this is my wife. My name's pamela will Interest in sister-in-law and married to scott mccurdy. I want to talk to scott. Because he was with tristen on a camping trip. He was in the next ten over with his own young boys. He's the closest person to the story. Tristan's little girls were two and four. The younger one could barely talk. Scott is the closest thing to a witness. Tristan always has this bucket list of things that he wants to do and camping. In malibu state park was on the bucket list years ago before we had kids he. And i went up to malibu creek state park and he and i always wanted to go back and camp. There scott tells me that tristan erica and their kids were about to move from orange county up to the bay area. I feel like he knew that i was a little bit sad that he was going to be leaving. So in california. Erica is an obgyn and had a medical exam to study for so tristan proposed trip. Something he and scott had been wanting to do for a long time camping. Just the dads with the kids in malibu creek state park and he wanted to have kind of you know one last camping trip while he was down here and we were all together and so it was. It was meant to be this bonding really fun. Experience they care of and up to malibu were driving up and we pull in and tristan was first and and we pass the the ranger booth where you get your site. And i follow tristen in and were we. We go down a long winding road and he makes a wrong turn and off the asphalt road onto this gravel dirt road which later he commented he was so excited that he gotta take his forest or offering such a funny dude. The campground is basically a large oak meadow. There's a one way asphalt road that goes around it with campsites offset on either side. We found our campsite. Got the kids out and we all walked around and the campsite was was a little bit angled and so tristan really didn't like it because You know there wasn't a good spot to pitch the tent where you wouldn't be leaning one way or the other and so it just wasn't wasn't the ideal campsite so we decided we were early enough. Not all the sites were full that we decided we. You know one of us would go back and and bargain with the arrangers to get another site. They moved to a different spot site. Forty nine in a nice flat on the northern end of the meadow and then they noticed that the guy in the next site over was leaving. They asked him if they could use his sight to spread out a little. He said sure no problem. Tristan set up his ten their incite fifty one then he and scott and all the kids spent the day at surfrider beach that famous stretch along pacific coast highway right by the malibu pier at the end of the day. They headed back to the park and got ready for a night around. The campfire scott says that tristan could be counted on to bring delicious food and pre mixed cocktails when they camped in the kind of person who optimized everything. Did you interest in. Get to stay up drinking manhattan's or something out of a flask. After the kids finally went to bed tristen had a pre mixed manhattan's for that for that trip. That last conversation we had we we stayed up and we were just talking about families for hours and hours and i told them how much i was going to miss him. I'm like i kind of guilted him a little bit like you know well. We had a good run buddy. You know we had a good ryan. I'm i'll miss you. You know. I remember at the end of the night. We decided okay. Well it's late. let's go to bed it was. I don't know what time it was. Maybe it was one o'clock or something. I'm not sure and you know. We put up the campfire and you know we. I gave him a big hug. And i told him i loved him and i did. I told him again that i was going to miss him. It makes me sad but so happy at the same time at least got that a few hours later scott says he was awakened by a loud noise like fireworks and the sound of one of his nieces crying. He couldn't figure out why tristan wasn't helping her. He knew that something must be wrong. He got up leaving his own young children and hurried over to tristan's tent. He opened the flap in the dark. He could see the girls kneeling beside their dad. One of them kept saying wet wet. He dug around for a phone and when he found it used it as a flashlight he wrote over and saw that his face was drenched in blood. The girls were kneeling in a pool of it. That's what was wet. He pulled the girls out of the tent into the chilly early morning. Air began to scream for help. I've never investigated a murder before. But i'm assuming the autopsy will be filled with information. You know leads. I can follow. That will get me started in the right direction when the coroner releases it i scour it for details at the time of his death it says tristan bodak was wearing a gray t shirt. Blue shorts and white socks. His face was unshaven. He had a little alcohol in his system probably the manhattans and a little. Thc above his right eye just below. The hairline but pretty close to dead center was an oval hole breath. Full copper jack. It'd lead bullet had entered piercing. His brain that bullet was excavated from his right shoulder. Blade included with the autopsy. Is something called a sr datasheet. It stands for gunshot residue. I had to look that up. The box for homicide is checked but everything else about tristan boats kids and how he died can only be learned from the omissions gaps in the narrative facts. The weapon is described as outstanding. Make and model unknown ammunition brand and caliber. Unknown number of shots fired is left blank. How did the injury car the autopsy simply opaquely says shot by another when trista dot was killed. Rumors started flying around. Malibu baudat worked at a pharmaceutical company and had published research on vaccines probably he'd been targeted assassinated by big pharma or the government or the perpetrator was a disgruntled park worker. Possibly ex-military or maybe it had something to do with the illegal marijuana grows that everyone knows or a problem in malibu creek state park but what scott says that. They moved spots twice and ended up in third spot given by a nameless stranger. It just makes me think about how random killing was scott was there. He was with tristan the whole time right up until they zipped into their separate tents. And he's baffled for me. And i think for tristan campgrounds or a sanctuary. There were a place that you could go and you could let your guard down a little bit. The kids could play. You'd have fun setting up your camp and making dinner and just hanging out with the people you love. Do you think about malibu differently now. Yeah no i. I definitely do. I mean. I think you've got just this this really great spot in the world where you should be able to go and enjoy nature and you just don't think that in a place so beautiful that you're going to experience something so evil about what happened to trust baudat. I always think about the thin wall of his tent. He probably felt so safe nestled in beside his girls. He trusted nature. He wasn't scared he had no idea what was out there. Or how vulnerable. He was going camping anywhere. Something can happen. You know there could be. There could be a bear. There could be a mountain lion. Those are kind of inherent risks in nature that they could be present. And if it happens if if there's there's a bear the idea of that is really scary right but usually when there's something like that i mean it's posted you know what you know that there's there are predators out there lurking and so you maybe you keep your kids a little bit closer and you keep your kids a little bit safer that day. They would never go to camp ground where there was a known human predator. No no one would ever did that. We did not know that there was this danger at this park and had we known we would never have put our children in danger. Never it was only after tristan's death that he and everyone in malibu found out there was a real danger. People were being targeted. Malibu creek state park law enforcement and tristan baudat was not the first victim. Wanna hear something. Amazing discover matches. All the cash you earn on your credit card at the end of your first year automatically and even more amazing the things you can earn cashback on seem almost endless. You get cash. Back when by the essentials like groceries clothing and in the past year that probably also includes puzzles boardgames face masks and that new streaming service or two or three or four having kids at home. This year has been investing in a lot of new technology to as well as new bikes. Bike helmets skateboards skateboard pads. Discover card members also earn cashback on vacations ordering takeout or even investing in some self care more reason to take some time for you but the most amazing of all only discover will match all the cash back. You've earned the end of your first year when it comes to discover get used to reaping those cashback benefits learn more at discover dot com slash match limitations. Apply finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure you can post your job to some job board but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along which is why you should try. Ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash hills. Ziprecruiter does the work for you. When you post a job on ziprecruiter it gets sent out to over one. Hundred top job sites with one. Click then ziprecruiter's matching technology finds people with the right skills and experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. You get qualified candidates fast so while other services may overwhelm you with applications to sift through ziprecruiter. Finds you what. You're looking for the needle in the haystack. In fact ziprecruiter is so effective. That four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free. At ziprecruiter dot com slash hills that's ziprecruiter dot com slash l. l. s. just go to ziprecruiter dot com slash hills ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire them from two thousand sixteen to two thousand eighteen. There was a series of shootings in and around malibu creek state park. One person was injured but no one died. These were near misses six of them. Thousand feet above malibu in a helicopter with two. We write a retired sergeant detective from lost hills station. That's a small outpost of the los angeles sheriff's department and it covers law enforcement for this whole area from coastal malibu calabasas and the miles and miles of wilderness in between richard beautiful wild area which rugged terrain shelter beautiful elder point drew over by the beach. I can see a line of houses shoulder to shoulder on the sand. They look like toys from here. It's some of the most expensive real estate in the world. She malibu colony little peninsula there there quite a few rich and famous folks live there inland over the mountains. Following malibu canyon road should value Canyon going in here. The highway goes along again. It's a major road connecting the beach. The valley something like twenty thousand cars travel on it every day over. And here's samaras. We're like the kardashian's wherever and all of that area and there's malibu creek state park it's wild and pristine volcanic rocks oak savannahs undulating grasslands. If you remember the opening sequence to the nineteen seventies mash the helicopter flies past craggy green peaks. Fats malibu creek state park but starting to rewrite. See something different. He sees the killing zone. I'm thinking you might want to keep it simple. We might start with the Shootings and then moved to the burglaries and then moved to capture since it happened that way and capture route. The camp is sounds like a great sequence. Sergeant right was in charge of search and rescue. Finding hikers lost in the mountains below his knowledge of terrain put him right in the center of the investigation into trista mbo debts death and everything that happened before. And after it sergeant. Right asks the pilot pete to take a lap over the park left bank there. We'll go back over torch. Tapioca below us is a picnic spot. Tapioca park at the edge of malibu creek state park. That's where in november two thousand sixteen. A backpacker named jimmie rodgers was shot hurt but not killed while sleeping hammocks slung between two trees near miss number one over here in the in the park down. The campground there is where The next two incidents occurred less than a week later and about a mile away in the camp ground. Where debt was later killed. A man was shot at while inside his camper number two two months later in january. Two thousand seventeen. There was another shooting in the same this time at a couple sleeping in their car. Miss number three club highway shootings then in the summer of two thousand seventeen. The targets seemed change to moving cars driving along the canyon road in the span of a few weeks. I white porsche and the white. Bmw were hit with gunfire near misses. Four and five below us on the park side of the canyon road. There's a hill well concealed by bushes and trees. Sheet a hill and the rush. The canopy trees come right up to the edge of the alloway. Yup sergeant wright's theory. Is that a shooter. Lay in wait. Firing on approaching cars elevated position. Were you haven't media cover in an an immediate escape direction. The shootings in the park and on the canyon road were totally bizarre. Events rhymes with no reason. They all happened at the same time around three four. Am each one involved. A single shot but after near-miss number five things went quiet. Eleven months passed without another shooting until june. Eighteenth two thousand eighteen early that morning around four. Am in the same area. A tesla a white one was hit in the hood. Near-miss number six even then after twenty months of unsolved shootings law enforcement didn't alert the public. The sheriff's department stayed silent and so two california state parks. There was no press conference. Nothing was posted at the park. No information wanted flier. Not even a suggestion to remain vigilant and four days after the tusla shot tristen baudat was killed in the campground. When you got the call that there had been a shooting at the campground. It wasn't out of the blue for you. I'm just putting myself in your shoes and thinking you must have had a sinking feeling because there had been a series of incidents leading up to that moment. Yeah that's that is true And now shot greatest. Fear that This was a serial shooter and that Eventually he would hit somebody or kill them. He'd already hit somebody in the beginning. So he's saying that privately law enforcement worried. There was a potential serial killer at large. They thought he was looking for victims. And that malibu creek state park and the canyon road or his hunting ground. While millions of people oblivious of the danger continued to visit the trails spend the night in the campground and travel on the canyon road even me. I took my kids to malibu creek state park in early two thousand eighteen. We walked the three mile loop to the rockpool. It's a famous swimming spot and we checked out the teenagers jumping from the. We talked about camping in the campground when it got warm enough. It's hard not to look back and wonder what if we had after the baudat murder the earlier victims. The near misses went to the media. There is an outcry in malibu as people began to panic about the canyon shooter. The campground was temporarily closed. But though no one was in custody the rest of the park remained open and there is still no sign posted about anything that had transpired there then about a month. After the murder there was a rash of mysterious burglaries from commercial buildings. Near the periphery of the park. Talk about burglaries check. Scroungy desperate stuff not laptops or cell phones but sandwiches from the fridge. See's candy cinnamon rolls junk food from the front of a vending machine smashed out with iraq. A couple of these places have video surveillance and a guy was caught on camera masked and wearing a headlamp with a backpack and what appeared to be a rifle sticking out of it The next place we're going to go to is called the calabasas recreation center just so happens to be directly next door melody. las joel's church day the area where all these crimes took place is essentially the backyard of the sheriff's station and one burglary. The last one was literally next door so he came within. What would you say hundred yards of the sheriff's station maybe even closer to the park in law sergey right says he followed blueprints from the rec centers parking lot up into the dusty desolate hills behind the sheriff's station. Big oak tree. John bonham yup. We're looking at a fold in the hills where gnarled ochre cleans to the side of a steep slope the one furthest back towards the hill the big one and i figured there was a camp here. Following sergeant rights hunch. Half a dozen sheriff's deputies returned to the site of the last boot print as they trudged up and down hills and the bright sun. The only sound was a sheriff's department helicopter chopping in the distance. But then a deputy heard a strange clanging noise echoing the canyon. It seemed to be coming from a ridge to the west already steeped in shadow. The deputy dropped to his knee and looked through the optic on his rifle zooming in. He saw man the whites of his eyes as he would later. Testify cut early forties wearing all black and a backpack with a rifle sticking out the top. The deputies jumped him right outside his camp of course he tried to flee But deputies were on him real quick Search and rescue lost hills patrol immediately. Got their guns on him. And at some point he tossed the pack. And you could see the rifle sticking out of the pack. The man with the gun was anthony. Rouda a loner who'd been living in the hills on and off for years the cops celebrated was the mystery of the canyon shooter all wrapped up sergeant. Right who helped track routed to his camp admits that it all seems a little neat. The drifter living behind the station hiding in plain view that guys responsible for what may be the most violent crime. Wave in malibu history. I would think it would take some nerve to commit a burglary directly next door to the station. I mean why would somebody amid a murder and then hold onto the same weapon and then do burglaries on videotape and making Very little effort to hide other than putting a mask on your face. There's an assumption that most criminals with think. If picture was captured on camera with a weapon that there's gonna be hyper law enforcement effort to engage and that's exactly what happened finally spring and i'm saying goodbye snow. Hello adventure and during the honda dream garage spring event. You can get epic deals on your favorite honda model ready to get rugged and take the off road in an all wheel drive honda. Suv like the crv. Hr v. pilot aspect or redesigned rich. I want to take spring road trip. Check out a fuel efficient turbo charge civic or core. Say buy a winter and hello to a new honda. Don't miss huge savings during the honda dream garage spree bed now at your local honda dealer women from around. The world have accused fast. Fashion mogul peter nygaard of sexual assault and human trafficking for decades. Earning him the moniker. Canada's jeffrey epstein denies it all claiming his accusers are lying as part of a vast conspiracy evil by design from. Cbc podcasts asks. Who are the women and men who have come forward and which systems failed them. You can listen to evil by design. Wherever you get your podcasts Only four five one calendar neemrana yours. It's been a long morning in a cold courtroom near the county jail in downtown los angeles anthony. Rouda is late for his hearing officially at this stage the charges have nothing to do with murderer. Rouda is in violation of the terms of his post release community supervision. Meaning he's an ex felon. He hasn't shown up to meet with his probation officer for two years. And he's not supposed to have weapons or ammunition. The deputies who arrested him his campsite say he had both unofficially though the charges seem to have everything to do with the killing in malibu creek state park only a few hours after route his arrest. The sheriff himself had a press conference at the hall of justice. That's department headquarters downtown. And while they didn't quite say that rouda was the suspect in the shootings or the murder. It was a big show. The captain of the major crimes bureau the lost hills captain a top official from california state parks and now route is being held without bail and there two plainclothes detectives in the front row of the courtroom talking loudly about a fishing cabin. One of the detectives has long grey hair and a beard and his wearing shit kickers genes. The other lean was sunken cheeks. Sneers at me. When i try to say hello later. I'll find out that the lien one is detective mark donal and that the one with the shit kickers is a detective named ty berry. Complicated guy along and twisted history with the sheriff's department donal barrier both part of the major crimes bureau and worked. The malibu case finally routed enters with a deputy and blue latex gloves gripping his arm guiding him to a seat my first impression of anthony rouda is. He's pale library pale. An indoor zeman not the weather beaten leather skinned survivalist. I'd been expecting. His hair is dark and slicked back in individual lines. That look pencil drawn a little goatee blue jumpsuit wrists cuffed behind his back. He's separated from the rest of the courtroom by plexiglas partition. But he has something he wants to say to the judge be over defense objections would ask if anything off the record. That's route his public defender attempting to intervene. And that's the judge who looks exceptionally annoyed. Shit on this beat. You don't have to speak but you're not going to be cooperate with them pumped ups anymore. That's on that one rouda hurls himself against the plexiglas pieces shit bitch shards fucker. The bailiff calls for help and a bunch of deputies appear they kick all the reporters out. But they forget about the microphones that had been placed in a podium at the front of the courtroom. And that's when routed tells the judge to go fuck himself having been in custody he seems mad at everyone. The judge the da the bailiff even as public defender the one person who wants to help him shoot. Rouda appears desperate furious trapped. He's thrashing about in the fluorescent light of his dingy cold. Corey graham reminds me of the mountain. Lions hemmed-in stressed out a dangerous ghost. jus again several weeks later when i see route in court he's undergone a disturbing transformation he's strapped to a restraint chair his face covered by mesh mask to stop him from spitting the deputies his head laws to one side. As if. he's under heavy sedation. I noticed that the public defender who route has been tried to fire is gesturing to me. He wants me to come talk to him in a quiet corner at the back of the courtroom information. Unfortunately unforeseeable swing. He's talking about the discovery. The evidence provided by the sheriff's department about the weapon amunition rouda was arrested with in other words. He doesn't think they have enough to charge rouda with murder. I'm not sure what direction year honing in. Check them suspects. I don't know because. I don't think this kid is. The shooter said killer out. There shouldn't even be guessing. What family situation was. I don't know if there was any rivals. Something wrong skid. Liberties craze brash. That they had to arrest somebody price. Probably wanting custody of the the scott interest. Dr kevin permanent stuff. The only thing i can figure because of these nuts. It's unfair. He believes that route is a sacrificial lamb. Meant to appease the agitated malibu community just just just between kids and when tristan baudat was killed. Shot in malibu creek state park in the hour before dawn. I couldn't stop thinking about it then. I found out about all the other shootings two now. The cops arrested anthony router a homeless guy living behind the station and they seem to want everyone to think that it's all his fault that he's the perfect bad guy a single efficient explanation for everything that's been going on. I don't know what to believe. But i know that's not the whole story. Could anthony rouda have committed all these crimes. What was law enforcement doing this whole time. How did malibu turn into the killing zone One here's something. Amazing discover matches all the cash. Back you earn on your credit card at the end of your first year automatically with no limit on how much you can earn. How amazing is that in fact. It's even more amazing because you can earn cash back on every purchase groceries clothing and in the past year probably about new streaming service. And when your first year wraps up only discover will match all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year learn more at discover.com/match limitations apply finding great candidates to hire can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure you can post your job to some job board but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try ziprecruiter instead. It's powerful technology actively fines and invites qualified candidates to apply to your job. It's no wonder that four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day so while other companies may overwhelm you with applications to sift through ziprecruiter. Finds you what. You're looking for the needle in the haystack. See for yourself right now. You can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash hills. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash. H i l l s.

malibu creek state park malibu tristan tristen scott Tristan tristan scott mccurdy scott mccurdy malibu state park tristan erica Lions Rouda surfrider beach malibu pier tristan bodak california opaquely Malibu baudat tristan baudat Malibu creek state park