19 Episode results for "Jim Webb"

Episode #2015 The New Phil Hendrie Show

The World of Phil Hendrie

1:01:10 hr | 5 months ago

Episode #2015 The New Phil Hendrie Show

"Live by live has all of your favorite music and you can listen for free whether you hit play on one of our hundreds of curated music stations or create your own custom artist radio station. You'll find the music you love on life by live visit live x dot com or search live ex live in the app store or google play and listen for free. Now grab a thirty day free trial of live by life plus and you'll get unlimited skips commercial free music and all of the podcasts and live streaming events you can handle visit live x live dot com slash. Podcast one to learn more and start your free trial hayes. Fill henry for the world. Famous phil hendrie. Show website or backstage. Pass our friday night chat. You know the drill. We'd like you to be a part of it. We'd like you to be a part of our family. In a backstage pass subscription you have a subscription to the largest inventory largest repository the largest depository of of material. We think we believe. We're pretty sure we have an exactly had. We don't have the scientific evidence of it yet but we're getting closer the biggest in the world okay. Forty-five maybe forty four. Bud just forty five thousand hours of our radio show going all the way back to our days in miami are net cast our digital world going back to the beginnings there in two thousand thirteen and also very much more not to mention video casts of which we have an astounding array and we also have our phil casts very early version of a kind of video. Podcasts that we did so. It's all there for you. Plus our friday night chat allows you and enables you and encourage you to partake of the phil. Hendrie show fan community on facebook and got two sites on facebook. Rbs peace and more page that The great melissa wolf put together and are filling ratio fan page. Which is facebook dot com slash phil. Hendrie fans p. h. a. n. s. I just want to say and that's the one that phil carved anyway. I'm surprised there's fifty. Three thousand likes on that page which is astounding f astounding given the fact. You've got to spell out fan. Most people have it bookmarked missouri. Atari why don't you just do fans 'cause i wanted to make it to distinct anyway. You wanted to what. I wanted to make a distinctive any. We get a backstage pass. We will be forever grateful and in your debt. If you do. And i think you'll really enjoy it at phil hendrie show dot com. You just bump the tv remote and now it's off the nhl channel. Give me that but did you have on. I was looking at a cooking show. Gimme that welcome guys to today's show put together by our very close personal friend. Mr rory mcleod there in columbus ohio. The home of goldie showers and rory has put together another don berman. Best of now. Don't berman came to mind after we interviewed him on monday concerning his His resentment at me what he called kissing the ass of art bell. Whatever that meant anyway art was really upset me. We don was very upset. Art can't be upset. I know that don was very upset. And so that inspired. That inspired me to put together a couple of really really funny hours. We heard one yesterday are gonna hear another one today and today is featuring some unit that Channel nineteen has on the beach. I haven't heard this show yet. Although i'm sure i will remember a lot of the bits once i start to hear them. Yesterday's our was fantastic. So don berman. Our channel nineteen newsmen. Who i talk a little bit about the pre show character that just sort of came up out of necessity. There were so many things happening in the news and so many people in the news reporting that we created the dawn berman character. Who share some traits with chef carl. They're both entitled. They both thinks that thing to the greatest thing since sliced bread. They both sound a little bit of like although chef shoddily is generally has faced jammed with cream cheese or i don't know anyway. Let's listen. I got a general thank you. Let's listen now to this. Our second best of our great bits from the life the times. The overall weirdness. That is done. Berman here on the world famous phil henry. Show don berman joining us from channel. Nineteen news here on our newsmaker line so done with the all beach. It's what is it called again. Hobie the twenty four hour. All access hewlett and it covers all the eventualities on the beach. Things that could happen. And and i really appreciate it if we can edit out all of that ca fumbling. But i did. Yeah we will The beach all beach access unit. And i named it. But i really ought to be able to remember it You said the twenty four hour all access beach unit. Thank you the twenty four hour all access beach and this will be on the beaches looking to see what's going on on the beach. What do you mean by that. I mean what. I'm saying is The beaches full of people during the summertime and in southern california we have beaches that are crammed with millions. And i'm not just hundreds of thousands. Millions of people are out on our beaches and we want report on where it's safe. It's maybe isn't and You know. I don't want to panic anybody but we you know we've had our shark attacks in the past. We've had people so with that being graphic in specific. Well we've had some people like some surfers a thing. They do in southern california. The surfers the old the old terminology was called shooting the pier. I don't know what they call it now. But it's basically trying to surf through the pylons of the pier. And if you miss and you run right spec out the one of those one of those big polls there ain't going to be a whole lot left you accept bathing suit and part of your boy. What's so funny the way you're putting it on the way up. I'm putting it in. That's a realistic thing now. I don't want to say that on the you can cut this stuff out. Yes yes Because a lot of times you say you're gonna cut it up and people tell me later on. They said well you heard you say something like f. an s and you know stick it up. You didn't cut it out. We've yes we will cut it out. Okay so that's you know how many how many of these things actually happened on. Well they believe me and everybody who is Southern california listening to me they know we have a shark attacks. We have surfers that wind up running their heads and apollo rocks or something. you don't know guy drowns. They never see them again. They don't he doesn't they. Don't know what happened to them. guy leaves. I think i'll go to the beach today and that's the last anyone. Here's the guy for years until the dna and some bones on the beach done. There's no need to scare people. I'm to scare anybody up to saying you know that these things can happen so far this this summer has been so far the summer. We've been very very fortunate to channel nineteen all access. Speech unit has been rolling from beach to beach looking to make sure that everyone's safe And there hasn't been anything to report on. We haven't had so we you know we leave a beach. We'll go to another beach and sit in parking weight and I've got the documents out. Do you go out with these guys. I go out a lot about three days out of the out of the week. I'll go and we rusty brown. Who goes out the The other two days the rest is rusty brown. Yes i didn't name. I mean that's his name. He picked it up from rusty brown. Okay what do you want from me. Felt fine go ahead guys. Knock it off so rusty brown which is his name. Is that a couple of we'll park and we'll look and i've got the binoculars out. I'm waiting you're waiting for something to happen. You're not necessarily looking to make sure the beaches safe. Well how am i going. I can't see a lifeguard. What i'm saying is as long as we've got the twenty four hour all access beach humid. We can make sure that everything's safe. You can make sure that everything's safe but what you really there to do. Is to report on some tragedy right. No no i'm not. I'm here every day. We do the twenty four hour beach access unit. And i will say you know. Give us a typical report now. Let's go to berman. Well you do phil. Let's go to john berman with a twenty four hour channel Let's go to john berman. i'll do it. Let's go to berman channel. Eighteen twenty four hour. I'll do it just wait. Let's go to done berman with the twenty four hour god. Let's go to denver now with all access to twenty four hours ever. Thank you very much. Bud this is john berman. here channel. Eighteen news and I'm here at the beach and everything's fine. There's nothing happening here. We talked to a couple of girls. Look pretty good in a bathing suit. I don't know it kind of goes like that. Well so it's not my fault that nobody's drowned yet this summer. I'm out there i'm looking. I'm waiting. I'm looking and waiting. Nothing happens and i'm like what the hell is this about so we go down to another beach. Nothing nothing nothing so it sounds to me like you're disappointed like it's not doing the job. It's doing the job but by now some guy at falling off the pier. Something did get a call. Though from you. Know those guys over at brownsville station which is at bar newport beach all those guys are full of crap. What did they say they said. I put some guy off a the. Somebody ran up with a camera. I never did anything of the sort. They see it. Well keep repeating. That bud. And i will sue you. Knock it off. So that didn't happen. It did happen. They said that. I went up onto the show. The guy off the pier and then Rusty comes over the cameras. All you know shooting. Oh wow a guy fell off the pier But it does sound like it would be much better for you. If someone did fall off the pier. I mean yeah but not. I don't want anybody to get hurt. It would be better for the twenty four hour all access peach unit to have a guy. Something you know. I went home last night. It's it's pretty interesting. it's pretty interesting. You know you get you. Get depressed and i went home last night. And i'm i'm i'm dialing around the tv. And i went over to amazon and there it was jaws. And i said you know what i gotta get something out of this summer and i and i said i said i watched it and and it was more of me to do that as i watched these shark attacks and and the news reporters and god. God forgive me for thinking this. But i was. I was thinking. Why can't that be us Do you watch shark attacks to happen. No i don't feel. But yes. I do and it's a. It's a quandary and i don't think you've got to be a newsman to understand the newsstand. Understand that you want have the that we want to have people eating not even but we want to have people. I always say this. I said to to chance blind. His old news been friend of mine last night on the phone i said. Why can't we just find a head on the arm like they did in enjoys. For god's sake wait a minute wait. I'm not done yet of somebody who we'd never met before and it's part of our community and maybe it was just a hobo or something. Okay that make you feel better. Doesn't make me feel better. No but i didn't ask you phillips asking margaret. No it does not well. My point was some anonymous person that you don't have to feel bad about turns up with just ahead in the arm and then we have the twenty four hour all beach access unit and your reporting hey has shark attacked and life is fun and thrilling for you know filling. That's a terrible way of putting. It was yeah. He tried make beach attack. Hold on that. And i've been listening to this. Now look berman. You know. I'll give you all the rope. You need to hang yourself a great go ahead. General let me learn from you know. I'll give all a rope. You need to hang himself. But what you're saying here is the following thing you're bored to tears and you want someone to die either drown get eaten by a shark get hit by a boat propeller something so you got something to report on now. Isn't that true. No that is not true. That's what it sounds like me and it says that way to me and you want to just man up say man up well listen coming from the war criminal honey you better take that back don take it back right arm hanging up. I'm sorry what is that about. I'm frustrated so you come on the show and you're all excited about the channel. Nineteen all excess beach unit and it's going to cover the news from the beach and now you're frustrated and depressed because nobody's got eaten by a shark. Hello hello i'm here. I know i can't hang up. So i'm just i'll just tell you that i'm here. Well isn't that what you're doing done no. I don't believe it is. I am frustrated. Because i'd like a little bit of to have something to do this summer. Besides sit in a newsroom. As ron markups running in for another cup of espresso with him and his guinea. Now we're getting to it now. we're getting to it. i knew it. yeah martin. isn't it no. it's not. But i'd like to get out of the place gonna watch that guinea friend stuff to. Hey i just heard you talking to ted bell was rudy canosa. And they're talking about these italian what's with you. I'm not calling guineas. i'm sitting in the newsroom. All day long waiting for something to happen in this dead. Let me tell you something as dumb in los angeles sounds exciting. It's dead. I mean there is nothing happening in this coun- the most exciting thing happening in. La right now is a big billboard that says venereal diseases on the rise. And what does that do. I get up every morning and a cold sweat and hoping it doesn't burn when ip officially say i hate i hate your guts okay done. I hate your guts done. You brought this on yourself you. So you're you're hoping it doesn't burn when you pee. You don't know what that's like. The general i think do i was in the service auto by life until i retired and spent a lot of my time in southeast asia. Show we'll let you go man. Goddamn so. I don berman channel. Nineteen news john. Berman on the line with us here to remember what you started saying. Hey the massive dropping rock-hard arcot. Okay thank you. John berman on the line with us here folks from las vegas nevada about the debates last night. Don did not make the debate don was. I'm sorry don but We're going to be transparent here. You're not you're not a newspaper. You met a local. Don't doing an editorial on your your your pod. I don't know what you are but you sure as hell not anybody does to maintain that high level of credibility so well. Yeah but if i'm gonna say a guys coming on to talk about. The debates newer passed out dead drunk in your hotel room. I was i did i say i said i was in no shape and fellow talked to him and he was awake but he was laughing and he was bouncing his head off the walls and things like that and it sounded to me as if giddy company. Well that's not your business see two. Oh man look you're not married. So what are you haydn okay. The fact is i was here working. And i did want to do a job and i did want to listen to what they had to say. But who cares when the siren call. Yeah the siren. Call vegas all right. So what did you hear. what did you 'certain from. Twitter was very interesting. What you just said the said that. Jim webb one. If you look at the twitter feed that. I was looking at jim wet. Now you may say to me that i was looking at mostly entertainment or hollywood or or or comedy oriented feet however the people on that feet are very educated people they do tend to be liberal so i think that it's a good feed the look at it. If you want to get the the reading as to what is the only i guess the the the flow of thinking. they're on the Liberal or democratic side. Jim webb not to be confused with jim. Webb who rolled up in a way margaret We're going to be sitting here later on in tribute to the wonderful campaign of joe clinton clinton of hillary button is going on over here. You're gonna be supporting this. Are you gonna be supporting mrs biden. What do you mean mrs biden. Can i continue go ahead. Biden was not jim webb. The guy who did up in a way Up in a way he might is fun at but is that why you're going to be sitting up up and away. I thought it would sit. Yes well it's a real stretch because this guy is about as far away from someone flying around in a balloon although maybe not jim weapons is a democrat phil. But he's also a supporter. Jim webb is a military veteran. So in other words he is the kind of guy that would make conservatives very comfortable especially if you're looking to pander to the right winger is now. I don't think jim webb is a right winger as much as As some people may think jim weapons. A democrat jim. Webb is a believer in president obama. Jim weapons a believer in liberal democratic policies but he does tend to be a throwback to the days of shall we say the more Moderate days of john kennedy Again i am coming up with everything that i'm saying to you right now. It's kind of like. I'm bullcrap intern paper. Because i was not passed out dead drunk but i had consumed an entire patrol So did you stay in the hotel room. Though i did not no i did not no i did not and i will tell you this. Fill the brawn james. I don't want to get into anything very very serious about the news about that. We don't want to get into anything serious and we're going to keep as far away from that story as we can. But but the new. What do you have something breaking. But we're not going to get into it then. I wouldn't say that no you're not going to say anything about. It will feel. They can get that news our podcast listeners. Get that news for another source book. What are you going to say. You're at some kind of a love ranch. Belowa ranch no. But i was at a wrench and i'm trying to tell you and i'm not saying this because i'm proud of it. I'm saying actually. Because i'm ashamed of it but you tell me how you gonna be done berman in las vegas on a friday night with a pocket full of cash. Have you ever been done. Booming in las vegas on the friday night with a pocket full of cash. No i have not but it wasn't friday night. It was tuesday night saying that figuratively. What is that supposed to mean prevalent. Just what i said. You don't know what. It's like to be done bourbon on a friday or tuesday night but let's just say friday night because it sounds better. You don't know what it's like. being done. Berman with a pocket full of who just got his paycheck. And you're in las vegas friday night. In other words you are a slave to the instinct. You are a slave to the to as you say the call of the siren. You can't say no to anything. There is a perversion. There is not a temptation or wait. Wait no no. There isn't a perversion or temptation or an abomination that you would say no to. That is bad too real rough. There is not i'll say it again. There's not a perversion and abomination a temptation a degradation. There is not a sewer that you wouldn't crawl through on your belly with your chin. Dragging in the flu via margaret grey. Now real beautiful really beautiful issue with do some man to his his basics which is a strap of dignity whatever toes he has his back a a couple of bucks and a cab. Ride thank you. I'm pretending yeah kind of hard when you're pretending you gotta stay there Yeah okay daddy. John berman joining us here And don alameda. So it's a very rare day. Offer you don and i'm very happy that you got a day off it's You can't beat that. How you feeling today don Nice day Beautiful days absolutely beautiful day. We are very very happy to be out here in los alamos filmed again though. Congratulations to you roy successful year. I know you're gonna have a good patience. Thank you very much on. Let's talk about the derby and the forthcoming kentucky. Derby let it people. Don't know that you are a a horse fancier. I am very much I have had dreams of owning of horning horn. And i've had dreams spill hosing on loans wrong with i've had dreams. I've had a couple of drinks. I've had dreams of owning horses but they're very expensive and They can be you know they're they're they're quite a money hall or money pit if you will you. Jim rome the sports zone stones. Some ponies now. How is that not a conflict of interest. How's that well. The guy is a sports reporter and he's also a principal Financial is a financial interest in of a part of the sporting world. Well i think the prayed. Probably he doesn't do any reporting on horse racing. I dunno does he. I don't know either. But i think that while jim rome is obviously wanna be successful. Sportscasters and sports sports reporters. I don't think that it is ethical for him to be doing his takes as he likes to say it and to Talking about do this and do and there he is with this course. I'm I don't know i don't know how i feel about that. Well i mean jim rome. Certainly there have been other individuals in media that have owned horses horses but they weren't reporters you see. That would be the same thing hold on was that. Was that the post jimmy. Was that the post. Jimmy i got. I got one of the kids from well here. Here's some money on. Phil give this guy. I think they're calling for the post up bet. Here's the three four. I want you to wheel. We'll these three. So i think fill it is. It's a little weird. It's a little strange. I'm not sure that i hold on. Okay here he goes again with the track baby. Let's go you down down. Let's go or find pie. Porcupine pie porcupine pies come on you creeping shit. Excuse my language for this is on the air. Don i apologize come on. Upc shit you. He's miserable ship. You come on you. Miserable son of a goodhew dirty a bit. Come on you dirty son of a bitch. Come on you dirty son of a bit. Don't you think you want to encourage the horse yet here. I can't understanding saying no really come on baby. Here come porcupine the outside. Come up with on him with him. Leave him burnham killing if you have to get the working point come on board you you fucking i apologize phil god damn that fucking nag talking about i gotta ask you to. Please watch your language. I know that the show is digital and it is not regulated by any federal authority in terms of speech. But would you please you hope. Fill you ask your calling me here at my place of relaxation. That's fair that's not gonna say philly agree with him all right all right. I'm sorry you're calling the guy that hey this is General how you doing today. I'm burgled dental electric sticks race. Well if one is going to be it's a mile you know the I i did well On the this this mexicans a mile. They got a horse here. He's an eight year old gelding by the name of Ray raymond. Birth and eight year old gelding named raymond burr. Gal that remember the horse. I mean you remember the guy right. Well this is the horse and the guy that was in perry mason. Yeah that's it And then there's other horse. It's going to the same as aaron burr. So let's and then one burr under the saddle. Are you kidding. I'm kidding i saw Jimmy go down. I wanna wheel these three and i wanna have a wanna put it down on the next race. I wanna cornell all these races here go and do that. Get yourself a soda pop or whatever you call it. Yeah these kids this kid. Just in from Michigan you know. He's a new interim at the at the newsroom. Phil yeah they call everything a pop up there. You know like instead of a soda pop. Oh yeah yeah. Hey you wanna pop. And i go. Yeah here here's a pop at all. I shouldn't do this. I couldn't tell you just like my you know it's it's a riot. It really is that's is that there's there's the call the post go go. Go call ahead. I don't wanna pop you. Go get yourself a pup that's really vile and vulgar and you should be arrested for that if a joke through. Okay everybody knows with the joke. I do it in the middle of the newsroom fares chrysler what are you have problems that you've got the problems that i've got. Get this guy. All right What racist this is going. Didn't we bet there's one jury you fucking queer. Oh what a want. The one okay. I'm gonna let you go down because up. We'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll the phone hold the phone. I just wanna see. Just one race thrilling. I'm yours then. I belong exclusively to you because this one race. Look at this get on. I didn't want to bet this one. Because that's the one that's the worst that had the The there was matted with sweat. Was that jerry dole gains on that one. Yeah he's a coke addict that guy that guy don't go you know you're on the radio. Oh i'm sorry. So yeah phil watching the race here and I bet disgrace. 'cause i didn't like the the horse but we're so everybody was loving this Show Shasta shasta wow is the name of the horse. And i think he just one right gone. Mike lead you bet. Bet the next recent you do that you can talk with us. Jimmy's up making it. I think that the derby this year is gonna be a lot of fun filled you know The preakness belmont. Let let me ask you something. The kentucky derby the the triple crown still holds great fascination for even though. We have the breeders cup. Many people think the triple crown is nowhere near the gauge of of Horseflesh or horsemeat. It's not that really. The gauge of the greatness of the trainer as the breeders cup is. What do you think i tend to agree with that but i also recognize that there is a traditional. Here's the thing though with the triple crown. Everyone in this year in year out. If you've got a horse that wins the first two legs of the triple crown. And he's coming into the belmont With a chance of winning all three races or a lot of these guys will pull out the stops bringing every ring they can think of just to keep that horse from nabbing not the triple crown. So it's become very cutthroat it's it's lower than low. It's lower than well. You know what well l. and and For me and he goes. Yeah yeah hold on field. Well i'm sorry. Okay users pay. Come on baby nipple clamp we got nickel talking about nipples nipple plan. What is the name of this horse nipple. Come on come on. Come on come on hand. This guy sanchez. The worst jockey ever seen in my life he is. I wouldn't. I should never bet when i usually don't bet on horse that he's writing but i didn't think you can fuck this one up on sanchez. Come on poodle whip into a williams. Put up pussy. Come on you dirty rotten whore. Come on you i just. I can't do it you know. Thank you very much. John berman from channel news joining us. And a tell you what don you're on top of it you aren't you talk about You know knowing the little cultural changes in the valleys and the peaks and all that stuff. You wanna you talking to me. Last week i met this sweet caroline. The song sweet caroline trillions. As long that neil diamond and it has recently been bastardized. The word i asked you to use that word and your promo of the second bastardized by individuals we show. We won't mention the name of the product. Because frankly like your soon. I don't remember what's nevermind margaret. We don't need to do that. Because i'm not here to bash the advertisers much as i am here to bash those that would take us on like that and would render it unlistenable by the repetition and the insistent Beating this into the head not just into the ears but just pounding into your skull sweet caroline. I used to love that song. I think a lot of people did i like. That's fine but let me just keep going okay. I mean we're having exchanged okay. So you liked what i liked by neil diamond. What are you laughing at man. Why don't you let the van say something. Done all right phil you liked it. I liked it by bobby. Womack as well as neil diamond. Bobby womack what does this puppy. Wet guy named bobby wack appreciate bobby womack did never mind. Go ahead all right. There's something that i need to know. Now don't need to know anything like the song by neil diamond. A guy named bobby. Wack the womack. Bobby womack the point. That i'm trying to make and then i've been trying to make here for the last five minutes until brought me on. Is that bobby will back. Neil diamond be damned. The sun sweet caroline. Although i did like by neil diamond myself was a favorite of all americans now. They've taken it and they have I've been ripped guts. Right out from the middle of it would help us. Don if we knew the advertiser. I frankly i don't know but i think it's a honda but we look it up. Yeah go check it out right now but just look up sweet caroline and they search engine understands market sweet caroline. Kohn has been used by right here. Hundred thought it was honda hyundai. It's an auto commercial and all right so we can. I suppose say that the has joined the celebration of destroying that song. The song is played by. I think in some capacity of the pittsburgh pirates at heinz field The song has been played. A t twenty cricket batches in england may talk not twenty. Who was that. It was well right. You can talk to him respectfully done. I'm sorry body. The tepe the cricket cricket is those goofy baseball. Oh yeah yeah. Yeah so they use it there and in the process they have slowly but surely gutted the joy they've got the emotion they've got an astounding. I'm for me don berman. Because you know there are some member for them. I can remember young lady. Long beautiful blonde hair is julie and she would walk home from school. Excuse me she would walk home from school. And i would watch her as she walked home. A lot of times. I would be following behind in my car Just looking at the beautiful way that she walked the swaying her hair and obviously the the the beautiful charms that she had and playing on the radio was sweet caroline. And i remember playing listening to that song and watching her julie. Julie hanson right. What about her. Didn't you tell me her. Father came out of the house. Or you know what margaret you. Fuck up hey watch the language something don. You're the one that told the story that father came out of the house and beat you up because he said he didn't want you staring at his eleven year. Old daughters ass you dirty. Are you kidding me. I'm telling your thanks a lot done for sweet caroline and your attitudes about it she if you wanna call back to explain yourself it'd be more d hang up. I guess he did what he's done a lot to these guest yes. I think he's angry. Show right here all right first of all. She wasn't eleven all right. She was a of age. she was seventeen. I was seventeen too. So you can. Don't don't piss me off okay. Well then why did you hang up. I wasn't ready to have to damn. What are you laughing at land. I'm laughing at the fact that you come on here to talk about the beauty of sweet caroline. Only to tell me that you fell in love with some girl to the sound of that song. Her father comes out and beats you up but he didn't beat me up. She was eleven. He beat me up because i was looking at her up and down obviously and he thought he saw all added the story. Now oh you know the story now first of all you got it wrong because you say she's eleven. I remember the story now. Don i won't say what i remember about it but now i know you know what i know. Why the man beat you up. He said he thought it looked like i had a hard on. Oh man jason. Mr byrne i respect to you for a long time to tell me now going to try and tell me i hold on. I respect you for a long time but you gotta be honest about things. Can't talk about. I really fell in love with a girl and there. She was slain to the beat in a meanwhile i got. I got a bone master. You know when you can make jokes about a bowl master. You said you had then you come to the phone on your man when i do know what we'll be able to stop any no land. No beast no force on earth will be able to stop me up all right so you got beat up by this girl's father. Did you wind up seeing her now. We wound up going out for the next three years but yet romantic by so i had a boehner see. This is what i'm saying. He made a game barbara on his show. Without you hanging over me like the angel mold depth you're like some mistress of the darkness. Every time i open my mouth anytime. I tell anybody that i had a border did. By what margaret sanger fill in the the by team policy of lyon was inspired by donald trump's choice of fake news. We wanted to see whether or not the audience was alert. Enough smart enough to know what a fake story was. And so in order to do that. Retool them this story that you're about to hear Or there will be a story. I should say the news. It's fake what is it good to do with trump. Well trump was saying the news is fake and we were saying. The news is not so much fake as people not educated to what the news is. That's a good point. Yes and so we said. Why don't we tell people sometime tonight. There will be a fake news story. Sometimes fake sometimes. They're gonna lie to you about a story and you have to identify which store it is. We're lying about and Along with my co producer. Bob fitzgibbon and of course Golden shower and the rest of the channel. Nineteen eleven o'clock news team goalie sharon. He's he's a weatherman. I know. But i like to include him because i like to have the names of the staff members out. I know he's got an unfortunate thing. But i like to. I like to make it appear as if everybody's working on the story which of course are not so. Thank you for all right. Do we not here to embarrass you. Well i i just wanted to know what is only sheriff's the is it a weatherman. That's the third time studies weatherman. I know he's a weatherman. You wanna make it appear as if he also works on the new stories. Yes that's what i hold up. Turn that garbage down before. I come over and put my boot through a done. I didn't mean to upset. You guys are just listen to what i'm trying to say here. Channel nineteen news will incorporate into its newscast every night and we do the five six seven eight ten eleven and one. Am report and then we're back in the morning at six. Am you do all of those. Do i all of those do i. In other words. I go to bed at two thirty. Get up when he talking about. I'm sorry but it just seemed to me like no. I don't do all of them. I do the nighttime news. Starting peer till two thirty in the morning. But i don't start my work day till sometime around five am That's what we do to standing as you guys did this last night. We could do it last night. And i tweeted it out today. I said channel news as part of our new policy is lying about at least one story and i go with that then when the evening rolled around last night i simply tweeted dodgers win twelve to nothing on a grand slam block off by wig. I gotta get the tweet right here. Say a post getting great say. The dodgers went twelve. Nothing tie the series to peace on a grand slam home run by the league and nine complete innings from from hill. And then when you said a bunch of stuff. I stop right there. So that was the tweet research The dodgers win tonight. That wasn't the tweet that was when we reported and i tweeted that Story was reported told the viewers of the dodgers won twelve. Nothing that's correct yes. Okay and you don't feel it somehow. Violation of your ethics is a newsman. Not at all. Not when. I told them i head of time. If you'll stay with me on this phil please. We're trying to keep up with you to the sarcasm. We don't need to be sarcastic. But i've only got so many miniature before he's gonna put me into another meeting hero jay because we got nothing. We've got phone calls. I got people crawling up. Well didn't go over. Well that's it did not go over well because and not because of that because i got a little angry on the twitter feed and not use some vulgarities But here's what happened I reported on the channel. Nineteen news can be bill going all the tape. Now we're gonna roll this fill and you'll hear Sounds like i'm done berman. Nineteen news the dodgers. Even the world series. Twelve to nothing a big win tonight at the stadium over the boston red sox as yes poet it gets a grand slam home run and he'll goes the full nine innings that was the That was how it went. And that's what we reported came to the point where i couldn't believe it. I was dive sitting at. I made the announcement. i said. we'll be back. We went to commercial break. So that was the ts more or less gifts and we watched. We looked at the phone and looked at the phone and looked at the phone. I went into the first story. I can't even remember what what it was about. I was sort of in a state of shock. No phone calls. No phone calls not not even not even calling about something else. No phone calls and so when we came back from the story that we were doing a live shot with Mardi kill garren and it came back to me. And i said and by the way the dodgers won twelve nothing on shot up grand slam and against the sound a lot less professional. I got one of them. Move to rugby. Billy and once again. The dodgers quinn. If you didn't hear me say they win. Twelve nothing on a grand slam by week. And he'll what the distance. Yes that's right. The dodgers win twelve nothing on grand slam by now in other news. That's part of the tape there so you drive it home yes. I was trying to drive at home. If you'll pardon the expression why do you. Why did you even say that. Because the very reason but don't laugh at every damn thing the double entendre comes to you on. Okay see that again. no. I will say it again. You don't talk enough. i. I've shed that and setback and still no calls no calls no calls. So nobody's calling even though you have purposely. How did you feel at that. Point point something i felt like. I can't even begin to tell you what i felt like. Because i'm sitting here thinking good. God almighty are people that stupid that they're just sitting and and and soaking this up. Now i found out later on That we did a phone survey. Most of them had either not at off. And i don't know about the says there seems to be a significant amount of heroin. Use what yes. Oh my god. The channel midnight and one am viewers. What do you mean what do you mean what seems about. What are you talking about what i'm talking about. Is we got a lot of heroin users. Because they not at off. That was the sort we did a phone survey. They didn't call in. Yes and some of them said because i shoot heroin outta here. I'm telling you right now. Why snorted and some because they drink alcohol and some because they were tired. There's a fight of reasons but it doesn't bode well. It certainly doesn't speak it high class audience there. I don't know what kind of i kind of money Those people carry. What kind of people you're advertise would be interested in. But they don't sound like the time. Well what's not jump to conclusions because there are a great many people in the los angeles area who have a lot of money and i'm sorry to say snort heroin not normal people. I know so anyway. That was the end result of that Did anybody call your fifteen. Finally fifteen minutes later someone and said did you say the dodgers won twelve. Nothing and i answered the call. I said yes i did. And they said let me double check that and they've come back in five minutes. I was waiting for their. Did you get any other calls other than that. No i sat by the phone. They said did you say they want us to guess they should double check that. Let me double check that. So they wouldn't may double check did and they didn't call back for five minutes. That does not sound like a very successful a successful which would call that to feature after feature sounds accessible to me. It turns out that. I have lied to my people. The whole newscast and people would have sucked it down. Well i guess that is educational. You better believe it but what are you. What have you learned the newsroom by about that. Well what i've learned. And i told i told her on martin i. It's very tempting. I just get on there and make up the news and And be done with it and he said no we have to newspeople so we have to tell the truth. What were you. What did you have in mind about every other story. Just come on don. It saves me the work of actually having to do some reporting people are going to believe anything if people are believing anything. It's time to tell them they're believing anything they should stop doing that. I don't know what that means if people are out there that gullible to educate them not to be so gullible absolutely well all right okay. That's sounds very nice. And i'll give you the merit badge on that one on. Meet you over there near the powwow tent and we'll put on bar cub scout happy. I don't know how that works. Come on burma. Talking about being responsible. Newsman responsible news man. But there's only so much. I can do and if someone says they believe me when i say the dodgers won twelve nothing and they're heroin users. Heroin use thing is very bizarre. That was what we found out in the post game. Sort of eight. See you call them up high nineteen and we just told a story. That isn't true. Why did you believe it. Why did you believe it. Or why didn't you call at about sixty percent. Said i fell asleep or not it off. Why did you not off. I'm a heroin user. Or i drink too much. Don berman with us here on the world famous fulfill you sound like. You're all disgusted. Just done it is. It's depressing and disgusting to hear you say what you're saying. The u you disseminate false information believed it. Well it finally one guy called one guy. Maybe don't have that many people watching. Hey let me tell you something. They are sunshine. We got a lot of all right. Take it easy. I like innovating there. We got plenty of yours. You know that all right man but for people not to call they were not enough is sort of heroin. 'cause they start heroin i it sounds bad yes it sounds bad at plus yeah was shocking to me too i. I don't know what to tell you but that was the channel nineteen new survey. And i think it's i think it's instructive and illustrative instructive and alestra tive. I'll say again. Instructive guyana illustrative. It's instructive and alestra. Tive that your viewers don't know what are you doing man. I'm looking at you in the video. Cast you're looking around behind you like linda. Blair's gonna walk in with her head. Turned around holt looking at my cat. They who did a need to watch that. I don't watch anything. I'm looking at the cat. You were looking at the katz. The whole pre show. What were you doing man. You working yes. No you're right Somebody else said you're looking at it for the pre show. Thank you very much for that bit of reporting when are you to go back to reporting real news. We report real news. We tell people when we're lying. We don't do fake news. We tell people we're gonna lie during this news break. Okay sometime tonight sometime next hour. We will lie about a story but that was a tease you did. I don't care for the tease in the store. We said dodgers win twelve nothing. Oh man i'm so tired you know the problem is i get fatigued talking to people who are just by la la land lot putting it right in my face. I got questions man. I'm going to ask him. Okay all right turn off what. What is the end of this. You lied yeah. We lied and somebody believed it. They called don't know everyone believe it or not. I don't we had one person call. One person called them question and they had to go back and double check it so most of people believed it. Then i would say no not most most of them off heroin. They drink too much. They drink too much. They were just tired or they just At about three percent. We're too stupid to know what baseball was the whole other category. So i i found it fascinating. These results will be published on the channel eighteen website. And you can go to. Www dot channel nineteen news forward slash. Done berman foam. It's you know what i don't know. What are jimmy. Gimme the you're in that. I'll give you a minute but you go to our website fill and you can take a look at the results of this poll as we continue with our experimentation channel nineteen is all over it we li- once a newscast and you've got to figure out what it is now. What are you planning in terms of lies coming up in terms of news stories that you'll be line about where we are planning on chemical spill on come on done that wheel man. Let me just finish chemicals. A chemical spill change the public safety. I am i the newsvendor you people. Apparently we're more news people than you are. You do that man. And you're gonna get the station find and you may get arrested for endangering public safety because we did because we because you announcing a chemical spill a freeway. That's going to affect public safety. People are in automobiles. They may turn their cars around going a different direction. There may be people in ambulances that need to get hostile care and because of your silly s stupid announcement way to hold the phone. That's true because you're an aspirin. They'll go they'll go back home die there and he won't even do a hospital. That'll go home instead of going to the hospital with they should Forget a man. I can't go through a chemical spill and they'll go eat. You really believe what you're saying don't you. I i believe these guys do too. I wanna go around the horn. But do you believe it. Robert young margaret. Yes yes. I don't ask you feel yes i ask you but yes i believe what you believe what. I believe that it is dangerous public safety. You almost said you believe me. You know i didn't done all right. Don thank you very much. Well i if i were you. I wouldn't go to go to air with the story if you're gonna make up a story like the dodger game. That's perfect. We gotta do something you can do either make a story up man you could say hey Turns out that the climate changes is is isn't real or israel. Make up some bullshit about that. Well i don't know whether it's real or not you don't know where the climate change is really not because trump keeps changing his mind. Thanks a lot. Don berman channel. Nineteen news berman hair saints. I burma from channel. Nineteen news is joining us. Judge genie per perot or janine. Paroled name is janine. Pearl felber i am. I apologize. she's been suspended for a couple of weeks. Let me just give you the little. She been suspended by fox news. And that is as a result of some comments unfortunate comments she made about the Certain headwear worn by muslim women in this case of the us congresswoman and What was it last name. Yeah right here okay. Fine but why did you know that you're the big. The big liberal pay what. I'm the big liberal margaret mortgage just as liberal as him. I know judge. I would like the comments made dawn. I address myself to you. The comments you're making about judge genie. This has nothing to do with her politics. I admire of judge. A judge perot. If you will. I am sorry that she made these comments. I know that the people of decide. I would say this the fox news. They have suspended for two weeks. And i find that to be a bit disingenuous because my understanding is donald trump wants on the air and it looks to me don. It doesn't matter to be one way or the other whether they keep her on the or not i. I am the buyer hers but she is professional competitor. And if someone were to say for instance i don would you like judge. Genie spot over on fox I'd be. I'd be over that as you like to say. Feel like white on rice so you have the loyalty to one more. I barely know woman. You barely know her. But you're making these public comments about wanting to have sex with their a boxcar you making public comments by what. Wait a minute. I'm gonna roll that out. That was my agreement with different. You're right. I apologize but it's no secret all right. There's no secret. And i should the same thing about kellyanne gonna talk about that. We talked about this this. This represented volvo. We talked about these two women. I thought i was coming on to talk about how i can separate. I can separate by disdain for the work of these women with my own personal. You know i appreciate them. On a personal level you appreciate them on a personal level various quotes here. But can i say i want to say i don i i want to say i do not approve the comments made by japan bureau. Nor do i approve of the public comments made by kellyanne conway Relative to the president or some of the policies that doesn't mean it a civilized world in a civilized decided that i can't have immense appreciation for both women as a. Yes as women as as fellow communicators in memphis. And this. i'll say this. And i think one of the few to have the courage to say this both of those women. I find to be unbelievably attractive. And i made the comment on twitter. And i'll back it up. I said i would enjoy if i was put it a different way. That was going to be my questioned. Thought about it yet. Said of talking about boxcars. Better way of santa at the moment. Let me say this. At that moment it was the best thing for me to say that i am so attracted to those women that in a boxcar with a hundred bums leering and drinking fortified wine. I would go ahead and consummate my friendship with both women both did you. Did you team. I never use the term. That's what you have to do though you are saying you have to tag team. They'd have to tend to not well. Isn't this a nice conversation. What are you talking about no you. Isn't this a nice conversation. You're going to talk about your beret for these women. A despite your political differences and we're she's well now you know ladies and gentleman just how indignant. He's laughing when he thinks about the two of them taking even is that this is. Oh i'm sorry. I didn't know that i was going to be sports relieved that i didn't know that it was a now done. Berman comedy hour not only is done our host but he's also the object of our lab. We're gonna put him. That's not what this is about. That's the way it feels to me. You're planning on going This you're you're overreacting. How am i overreacting. Let's talk about this like adults. You have a great admiration for judge. Genie perot her name. is janine. not for new girl named jeannie. I get it okay. I get it. You're still thinking about it talking about band. Well janine right yes. Janine bureau and kellyanne conway you respect deeply. I think both women are a credit to their professions. They are credit to their not grace. But they're kinda too well judge judy's case kinda do a race. Well no she's white but she's a loose your store boy. You a real mess today to. I've had a lo- weekend s then let me just say this. You admire both women. While at the same time you do not agree with their politics. That is exactly right. I am not in agreement with them. I'll tell you something else. I think fox really show. It was a a level of of. I'm going to sit cowardice. They are complete cowards. By not firing outright as opposed to suspending her for what she said was bigoted chauvinistic. It was it was anti religious with anti-muslim it was a terrible thing to say and she should have been fired fired and put on the street the way we might put a garbage can on the streets filled with the things. We don't want any more for the garbage truck to come around and get. That's what you think of jets janine dot. That's what i feel for a professionally privately. I'm a great admire of her. And i believe that she is outstanding. What i think is a professional. And yes i think physically. She just sets me on fire. And i would as i said You do name the place. I'll go ahead and do it in front of anyone. Nuns left encourages. No no. it's not a done. The no phil let. Let's just say phil. I said what i said and maybe i'm not putting it at the best way not perfectly while you you had viable women. No not while. I do not like their political point of view. And i don't like the things they say on behalf of this country however privately as women and as intellects i went to sit in a library and read poetry with them and then yes also. I would do it with them. In front of sailors and russian soldiers doesn't matter. That's that's why john berman. Phil has the ratings that he has. I'm upfront. i'm honest. I'm out there. I'm in for don. I don't know it's raining. I believe you but if you say things like you do it with each woman in front of russian soldiers. I love words. That's how attractive. I am to them but i would go ahead and all right okay. I'll take my clothes off. I don't give a damn if it's if nuns are looking on. Yeah that's hot. Your for both of those women yes and. I don't think i bought a tag team. I think my dad. But i'll go ahead and all all the center that i did not say tag team. Yes you did you did. You did all really year gotta go home with bargain for all right so i said tag team. So what are then. That's what it that's the way it will put up a sign saying the migrate tag team. Tournament is underway. Don berman in the center of the ring judged man and now you're starting to sound stupid. What are you talking about now. You sound like an idiot to sell. You're making a joke out of the whole thing in the admire these women. Don't i'm trying to tell you the extent to which by eleven. Oh my god and you don't believe in having to be stressful as on. So what is the point of all of this to make this these public statements. I i believe that. What judge inning or janine or dini whatever. The her name is janine. What what judge do what janine did and what she said. What's wrong very wrong and kellyanne conway says on a daily basis on the chris cuomo show and all those other shows is wrong wrong wrong she lies and i think it's wrong however pitch you know at the end of the day once. The steam whistle blows five o'clock and we're all walking to our cars. I am a great admire of both women physically intellectually you go ahead and have a sex orgy was both women while you was this reading poetry. No i'm trying to tell you. I admire them. I guess i'd have to be reading poetry while you're having sex. It's i don't talk to you to understand understand you sorry says we look a mary both of them. I would if i could you know. So don't this candour you'll get listening to and watching sunburn the channel. Nine thousand nine news folks. No i'm not going to be talking about this on tv. But i am. This is why. I am unique. I am a unique nine. I would sit with kellyanne. Conway and janine pirro and read from robert browning and from what. Who's the broad. I shouldn't say broad. Who was elizabeth barrett browning. yes We would make tea and we'd have finger. We have finger sandwiches. And then yeah. I'd have their size around. I'm an honest man in a dishonest world and done berman on the world. Famous phil emery show. 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don berman berman john berman rusty brown phil hendrie Hendrie don John berman phil neil diamond mrs biden dodgers Jim webb caroline Jim rome Berman breeders cup melissa wolf Mr rory mcleod las vegas
Jim Messina

RPM45

26:04 min | 11 months ago

Jim Messina

"Hey, this is Marcus off and this is rpm45. Jim Messina has done at all when it comes to making music. He's been a recording engineer record producer singer songwriter and guitarist. He was a member of Buffalo Springfield the pioneering country rock band Poco and the hit-making duo Loggins and Messina on this week's rpm45. We talked about all of it all through high school. I had a band would be paid 6200 bucks and then divide that up between the five of us in a gasoline was a quarter a gallon cigarettes for $0.25 30 sets of those days. So you get a sense of a price as was you know, my first car was 75 bucks off. So, you know, if you could earn, you know fifty bucks on the weekend. Well, it does pretty good stuff pretty good stuff for being in high school for sure. I mean you on a weekend you can turn it up money to buy used car off. Did you get four seventy-five bucks? I'm just curious. I got a 1948 Chevrolet two-door sedan that had been painted Frost white, all spray cans and I actually bought the car from Jim Webb the songwriters father Bob Webb and Jim Webb and I went to high school together. He was a grade ahead of me and years later. Not only did he sell me my birth car. But he also he was a precursor. So he married me and my first wife and Jim Webb married my wife's sister. So you played throughout High School you made some pretty good bucks doing it and not what cannot eleventh grade honors about 15-16 the guy by the name of Larry Goldberg with audio Fidelity wanted me to make an album and I made this album. It was supposed to be what I would call to let me double meaning that's just the music would be on there. But by the time it was finished they had other ideas. They wanted to call it Jim Messina and his gestures and the album was called garage doors, and they had put all this friggin tractor Noises Off. Beginning and ending of the songs was just was rumor going away, but they friggin do that. So by sixteen I had an album out and then by Seventeen, I I had been discovered by a guy named the new Clinton Edwards who was a DJ working at a Cy radio come to see me and asked me if I would be willing to work as a producer for him company had called Ibis records an independent label. In fact, I don't really know what that means when you want me to do and he said I just want you to listen to the music and make sure that the musicians are playing it the way you want them to play it and then we'll open put you together in a studio with an engineer wage see how they come out and you're how old is this time? Seventeen years old. Wow, your album that you recorded was that with the same guys? You were playing all along with you mean in high school? Yeah back up until the end of high school. I had the same guys after that. I took the drummer with me to La as a we lived together to try to see if we can you know, Make it has musicians but he later had to spell out cuz he you know, he needed to earn money and he wasn't getting any work, but I continued on and produce records for this guy until until the company you shut down. So that's where I got started in micro with the engineer. We became friends and he said Hey, listen, why don't we team up and maybe produce some records together? So we we did she tried to get Talent which we did and then we produced another act and then after that it was it was getting tough to just make a living like was having a hard time. I was having a hard time. I just needed to get some work. So he started training me to do engineering work. I began getting my skills as an editor learning how to operate machines helping with maintenance alignments and then he got me a job working at Bob Ross music working as an engineer and eventually just learned by experience how to operate the studio and then might got a job working in building a studio for a dog. Folks you literally wired it up. Yes, Mike and I did wired it up from the mic and put panels into the console into the preamps lineups. Now the faders out the patchbay into the time machines and through the speakers. It was quite an exciting thing to learn how to do that's like you did it from the bottom up. I mean, that's just basic I guess I will tell you that what as a young person, you know, I'm living at home with the opportunities that were beginning to come to me fifteen sixteen. I just had this desire that I wanted to learn the recording business all the way from the resistor up to illegally and and what's happened in my life is exactly that and so you're very Hands-On and you you have a knowledge and you know literally down to the resistor of most musicians don't have that kind of feel horn. I'm sure well most musicians are literally more right brain oriented, you know, the perceptual conceptual it didn't you know birth Are more left-brained and it's all Technical and data and numbers and everything fits together in a formula. I was cursed with having a little of both so often times it's almost feels like I have a schizophrenic brain where it doesn't know whether to be creative or intellectual or vital actual or creative and sometimes it gets stuck in the middle, but still obviously you've both is not that you're lacking anything. You got both sides. Well, I got both sides but it would be nice if I had one whole it says a 2/2 pack of always feeling a little half empty with some vital you were producer and 17s unbelievable to me and you continue to explore that side of it as well. Cause I did Mike took me over to Sunset sailed and started working there, which is when I started doing sessions for A&M Claudine Longet came in and did some dates game. J. Yeah you doing that is I sure do and Andy Williams Andy Williams at the time a Teenage Dream of mine. Yeah, me too. And then you know Thursday at one point in time David Crosby came in and I said so who it is. I see this is David Crosby and I went Bing Crosby said I don't know but I don't think I should I show up the next day and I've got a Mike set up and he he brought a songwriter into the demos. And so when I got there a little ahead of time he'll come in and and they gave me a lamp and they said they need to find a place to put this lamp in the control of this whole why did it and GMC says I don't know what it is. You have to talk to David about that so many guests. May I have this lamp and I'm supposed to plug it in in the control because yeah, that's right. What is it? He goes it's a lava lamp. I never heard of it and plugged it in and it started to get hot sort of us off. Gallade yes, he said turn the lights down turn off for him. Just use that light. So we recorded about I don't know ten twelve songs with this young woman who had brought in and I was absolutely amazed I missed the first time I had recorded somebody would just voice and guitar and actually solid for just great. First time. I ever got any real pictures of lyrics very inspiring to me to do this session when we got done as to what the producer was David Crosby and they said it was the artist Joni Mitchell. Oh God, I really would thrilled at being able to record her first demo. That was a demo. She got the deal with Adam records. It was an important lesson in my history is as a producer and what a person has got the gift. It's right there from the very beginning. You don't have to try and do anything other than capture it this was the first artist. I'd ever heard in my line that wage. Walked into was shown who was looking for a deal and it was right there and then subsequent to that is when the Davidson have been working with the sungai engineering to the Buffalo Springfield. So you might want to consider working with him. So they put me on the date. That's what I started working with about those Springfield my engineered their second album. And then on the second album or third album, I should say they were starting to make it off their bass their got busted. They needed to hire a bass player. And at the time they didn't even know that I was in position. I got this opportunity. I thought that maybe I could raise my hand application for the Springfield is our bass player too. So when it came time to audition, I would have plugged in my base. We lived to got about ten bars twelve hours into the first song even looked at them. Like wow, you know these parks and I thought to myself of course, I do been working with you for a year and half any anybody with half a wit would have been booted. I think I think so brain dead. So they hire me because I knew all the tunes and I was there and it seemed like a good deal for everybody. So then I became their bass player and engineer and in somewhere in that period of time. I got a call from Ahmad erdogan said he wanted to ask me if I would consider producing the Buffalo Springfield and I said well why me and he goes well they seem to trust you and they they need a producer and they can't seem to find anybody and I'm very comfortable working with you if I took the job. So you're a member of the van and you're producing at the same time, right and that's on the third album. And that was the third off the album needed to be done. You know Neil was off doing what he was doing to even you know, I would work the sessions for him to get him recorded in the same thing for Richie except with Richie was a whole lot more Hands-On to get his music recorded captured and edited into that album. My focus was on producing an album getting it done and delivering it as I said, I would change. , turning in Atlantic Records, that was my job and problem is called last time around which is very descriptive in this case. Yep. Yep. Yep. That was the last album they made and then move onto. Okay was the next step for me routine. I were actually in a taxi cab and I asked him I said, so what you going to do after the band breaks up because I really don't know just you know, he was a frightened I think and I said, well, you know, you could always do something. That's a little more country oriented. I said I'd like to do something and I'd like to get back to playing guitar and Thursday, but you know, perhaps we could do something instead of doing the punk rock thing, which is what we were really known for I said, maybe we had a we had a country all that maybe do like a country-rock thing is what we talked about it and I hadn't finished doing the Last Time Around album yet. So it was subsequent to the release of that album Richie and I decided to become Parts in the in the western nomenclature of things and off. We can to try to put together a band and a Poco eventually eventually became randomizer best young towards Grantham Richie Fury and Jim Messina and took the first country rock band. Well, that's what they say. But the first course you rock band in my mind was Buck Owens and the buckaroos off in the back room, but in our restaurant in our in our in our what you might call in our generation, we wasn't the first really who were exploring that so I heard there was a certain emotional frustration in the sense that you guys were too country for rock stations and to rock for country stations. And so you had some difficulty getting played. Yeah, that's exactly what we were told. You know, when we would go out and even on tour and try to hit the radio stations they would they would like the music but they would say, you know, this is this is really too country for you know our station to play dead. And then when we had the country stations they were to say this is you know, that's to rock and roll doesn't matter what we do. So we we just didn't couldn't get the airplay and we were just a little too ahead of the curve office building. Yeah. Yeah and you go a few years down the road in the seventies and all of a sudden country rock is definitely a thing. It's definitely and that's thanks to the Eagles because the Eagles were able to take it to step further and get songs that were more rock and roll and the voices to give it the Sweet Country Harmony sales and Poco, which is one of the reasons why the last Richie just wanted to focus on his his writing and I was trying to add a little bit there in with my writing and also in the arrangements to make it slow in a direction wage in my mind felt like it needed to go but it's just wasn't moving in the right direction and I think Richie, you know bless his heart. He was frustrated because even had become successful in, New Jersey. Able to become successful and he's kind of felt like he was getting left behind and I think that created some anxiety and frustration. I mean, I know it did which is one of the reasons why I had to leave and when did you leave I left the October thirty first nineteen seventy and when you left what was your intention then where did you think you going in your career home? I was pretty between the Springfield and all the you know, all of the chaos and Poco and the frustrations. I just thought you know what maybe this band stuff is not something for me in the summer of nineteen seventy. I had made an appointment with Clive Davis to talk to him about the possibility of coming to work for them as independent producer. And at that time I explained to climate really tired of being on the road and I was just newly married. I lived three blocks from CBS and just felt I got the time to stay home and do some production work. So, you know, I chatted he's like one that you get this album done with poco wage. One More album to do get it finished, you know, get yourself replaced it'll even an amicable way so everybody's okay and we'll talk about so, you know when finished the record and the age factor is Paul cotton to replace me and I said listen to make this easier for everybody. Let's bring him out on the road and I'll teach him the parts. So he and I share a room and I taught him the parts but I was pledged so that he would be familiar with with it and on October 31st 1970 at the Fillmore. He took over my position as guitarist and nineteen seventy one thousand producing for CPS. Don Ellis had started working at CBS as a artist development for Clive Davis. Antonio's had approached me in the summer of nineteen seventy with the idea of what I'd be willing to listen to the brother of his friend and logins. It was a singer-songwriter consider maybe producing a so get a call from logins and he said listen, I understand we might be able to get together and I pray hear some of my music and I said, yeah, that'd be great. I said, can you bring some tapes home and we can sit and listen to him so he showed up for dinner my house. So he walks in and you know look at him and it has this really tall guy with a part in his hair and his jeans fit him like he had a load in a unique idea where them today a little too low and and a beer and I thought oh my God, this is not what I had in mind so he came in and we were chatting and they seem to be very person said, so can we listen to some mutations? Well, I don't have any taste I says well, did you bring your guitar? And he said I don't really own one. So at that moment, I kind of felt like I don't know that I really suck. Beer but I am in my house. Yeah, right. I went over to the closet and pulled out a a nylon guitar that I had in there that I spend time working on. I said tell you what here you go. I got a machine set up right here Thursday to my sits in Stereo sit in the middle. There's a guitar, press that button when you're ready to record then show me what you got. Well, what have you been doing? I mean before this. I mean, how did they find him if you if you didn't need a guitar and and I mean he didn't have tape. Well, what was he doing before he met with you? What he had been doing was working for a as a staff song. I understand, you know what they needed a demo or a song or song written for Elton John or whatever because he has this incredible epicotyl. He could twist his voice to sound like whoever we wanted to sound off on Russell or you know, Elton John he could do it. So he proceeded to record Danny's Song how to cook order a couple of other things and so we had dinner and chatted at night and he left and wage. Ask my wife I asked her. What did she think any cuz she goes well, he's he's interesting I said, yeah I said but you know, what? What am I going to do with him? And most of these songs are folks shows that the quote wait times over he had a wonderful voice and could do the Blue Eyed Soul could do the country could you know really had a grasp of music cuz he was a real music lover and appreciate her home and was was was willing to step out of this thing too, which was important. So the more I began to work with him. I had some songs that I would working on after Poco and we had house at Pooh Corner and we had a Nissan which I felt if he was given the right material in the right opportunities, we could make a great album. So I cut a demo on the whole record. And once I had it the arrangements the way I walk I took and cut it up and sync with it. Like I would be releasing the record and I turned out into Clive Davis climb up the material used to but there's one problem. He said it sounds like you're playing on this thing on the line is dead. William and I just have to understand that case number never had a banner employed abandoned and he need needed to erection. He needed musicians that would listen to what was going on in my life. I think the only way to have done that was to get in and be a part of this given what I just said, you know, he needs some help on this first or what I'd like to suggest is that I sit in with him on this album wage and go out with him in the first tour so that we can get things organized and get an agent to get his manager get everything set up and try to make the state special as possible Clapton like the idea that first page cuz he said, you know, I've had too many bands that we've done an album and the bands break up because they lose somebody and I said, well, I understand that I said, but it's much different than and I said, I'm not going anywhere. I'm organizing this so that it will be as successful as it can and I said there's been plenty of times in history where artists have sat in with one another made bad cats Charlie bird Leon Russell on and off. It's not the first time this has happened but it is an important time I think which we need to consider to make this a compliment success. He reluctantly said, yes, they all eventually was release turned out. It was selling like hotcakes in Clive came to me and said, you know, I'd like you to consider staying with with Kenny because these kinds of things only happen once in a lifetime getting a long freaking very positive or get really good sales. I would just like you to consider this I said, yeah, but I got five of their albums. I gotta make this year. I can't go out on the road and and do this too. And he said well focus on getting a couple albums made a year with Kenny. And so I said, you know, I'll consider obtaining if she's willing then that's fine. But the important thing that you know, I need to say is that I came back here to be a poor choice not to be an artist again and advise long as I'm producing the records and that's understood and I'm happy to do that. I had that conversation with a client but she was an agreement. I had a conversation with Kenny, which he said hey things are wage. You know, let's keep it the way it is. So that was pretty much the birth of a Blog is Messina subsequent to the release of the first album, which was called sitting in with the idea of being that you were sitting in right now with the idea what I was just sitting in as big as hard as the mid with sit my ass out later, but it didn't turn out the alphabet the album. It was actually a Duo and a very successful one, but it was also time for me to McKinney went into this thing thinking he was doing a solo record as a solo artist and really didn't plan on doing a duet. Neither. Did I but it became clear after four or five years that he was beginning to suck kro, and and wanting another Direction the working with other people which means time, you know, it's time to do that. So this was kind of a mutual thing, you know, sometimes when we we hear about wage is breaking up you think of its acrimonious and all that stuff doesn't sound like I felt at this time. In fact, I'm the one who brought it up and I just didn't want to see this thing end with us getting into a huge. Dumb argument over something and I was tired. I was having a difficult time digesting food for had allergies all the time and under a lot of stress. So I just think that it was time took me take a break. I took three years to chill and find out who I was the picture that I get from when you talk about when you first auditioned him was he was very raw had no experience just seemed like a nice guy. How did he grow and change through that. Any was in the beginning very very eager to make his music and he was he was he was really a great partner. He worked hard. He just was one of these guys who was really really eager to express himself and to be creative. We want even more sophisticated as a vocalist. I think he was needing to be challenged more page him over the past ten years. You know, he definitely got to the point where as a vocalist phenomenal vocalist. That's his thing. His vocal is his instrument. He was frustrated with where I 1000 To go and obviously where he was seeing things going if you listen to the last album native son, his songs were extremely packed with instrumentation and vocals and stuff and I just have a name or philosophy about how music feels good to me. They're not that it's right. Not that it's wrong but I like cutting things all at one time. All of the logs have seen his stuff was cut off it all had the live performance feeling that we could then capture and take under the road but the same musicians and audiences with while get a chance to hear the music that they love away. It was created in from home with created it Kenny at the point where he'd like to overdub a lot when we got into the ladder album. The music was starting to get crammed over a range. So I think I'm beginning to sound overproduced which is my style becoming more and more his style and because I was a producer I was resisting some of the stuff and I think that was creating anxiety for him. I know it was awful. And I could see it one of the reasons why it was I thought it was time to go as he went on in life. I didn't spend a lot of time with him, but he seemed to change at least what I was hearing back from other people before he was a little more kind and easy-going and playful and as his voice became more sophisticated. So did he think his personality needed some more sophisticated and as he made more money, you know, he started to acquire desires for things that were expensive sort of out of the normal price range for most people and I felt myself moving in that direction one point in time and that's what I said. You know what I got to get back to my roots who I am and where I came from. That's why today I live in the country. I've got a dog I got four cats three jackasses bunch of chickens and a horse and I'm doing my own maintenance and fixing my fences and I'm cussing out every time I have to go out and do something I'd rather but it's what keeps me. Balance keeps me rooted keeps me in touch with my neighbors. It makes me appreciate what a plumber does what a carpenter does, you know, I do much of that stuff myself until I get to the point where it's over my head off. I called Pro and to do it, you know my fix most of my electrical until it gets to the panel. And then that's what I call the electrician but I think it's important most of my friends that I enjoy spending time with them pretty grounded and rooted in what they do. Their families are important to them, you know, their lifestyle is not about living with the Nouveau riche or going to the most expensive restaurants or Thursday at the most expensive hotels. It's about just living life and being part of the herd. I don't think any lives that way anymore. I don't really know that much about him any more so I I can't really tell you how much he's changed other than from when we stop spending time together. He definitely has went in a different direction both musically and lifestyle whether it's been good for him. I don't know how you left win at the end of 1976. And then you kind of chilled out for you said a few years. Yeah. I came back and started recording again in 1976 with the release of the album called Oasis. There's a song on your second album. I'm a big fan of is called loving you every minute. I thought that was a great song. We are going to put putting it back into the set here. I'm working on getting a keyboard player to cut start coming out and fact, I was just thinking of that but that that dude my head all morning. So so tell me and you're still playing obviously right now, we're all sucked but you've scheduled some things for what twenty Twenty-One or something like that in terms of performance package right. Now. We do have some dates on the books beginning in January 27th, sixth, I think but you know again, it depends on it depends on whether we can get this virus under control off. All of a sudden it's just all cost right up again. I mean, we'll listen. Thank you. You've been very generous with your time. And I really enjoyed talking with you and I've learned a lot from talking you so I appreciate it. Well, thank you very much. Thanks to Jim Messina and thank you for listening to rpm45 will be back again with another hit artists from the 60s 70s or 80s next week.

producer Jim Messina High School engineer Clive Davis Richie Fury Springfield Kenny David Crosby Mike Jim Webb Buffalo Springfield Marcus Clinton Edwards New Jersey Elton John Andy Williams
Pop Culture Affidavit Episode 114: Unsolved Mysteries of the Unknown

Pop Culture Affidavit

1:05:16 hr | 11 months ago

Pop Culture Affidavit Episode 114: Unsolved Mysteries of the Unknown

"A. Pop Culture Affidavit episode one, fourteen unsolved mysteries of the unknown. Hello and welcome to episode one fourteen, of Pop, culture affidavit. The podcast takes a look at everything random in the world of popular culture which is brought to you by the Chew True Free Internet Radio Network I'm your host Tom Panties and Tis the season for some spooky stuff. that was. Really cheesy. Anyway. It's been a spooky health of years. It is so like the hall horrors of Halloween Look like an episode of the Magic Garden. But I thought that with it being Tober I thought it would be a little seasonal and I'm gonNA spend my time here talking about the unknown. And, this is an episode that's been an idea I've had since before I started this podcast, spend my topics list since I created it back in twenty twelve or twenty thirteen I had intended to actually do it two years ago at least that's what the notes dated August seventh two, thousand, eighteen say. But I put it off for whatever reason. I think it might have gotten bumped for my episode about the new Teen Titans or something. Anyway. It's not that important. What is important is that I'm here and I'm doing it and the inspiration for this episode goes back thirty years to when I was in junior high school and would spend time in the library flipping through whatever book looked interesting. Yeah I was a total library mole back in those days and yes, I still have friends and yes, those friends were real and we did hang out. But the library was one of the few places that I was allowed to go on my own vibe, my bike, and since the was completely free, I would go there on a constant basis and check out way more than I could possibly read in the time before they were due back hack. I still do that. By the time I was in junior high school I had graduated from the libraries kids section, and that meant I could go explore the adults stacks that were in the bigger room I personally loved the layout of the old civil public library. This library was a building that opened in nineteen sixty six, which means that it was built in my favourite style of public buildings architecture, which is mid century modern and Oh man, it was this great. Open air reading room space with the shelves on the perimeter both above and below I'll swipe a picture from the historical society's website because it's just so great and even looking at the Arden carpeting in those pictures takes me back. So this building was just one of my favorite places to go and every time I went there I had a pattern for browsing I. I would go to the lower level of the fiction section and check out the science fiction paperbacks because as I mentioned a couple of episodes ago the library had about all of the pocket books, Star Trek novels, as well as a number of other series. Then I'd had ordered a nonfiction starting with section seven, four one and eventually moving to the area of the Dewey decimal system that is most appropriate for the show, which is sex in two zero, zero one otherwise known as general, knowledge. and. The copy of mystic places that I checked out of the Jefferson Madison regional. Library in Charlottesville to do research for this very episode has a label of Zero zero one point nine four. That's where I saw a number of. Weird stuff including alien encounters and UFO's. Now. I cannot tell you for certain what book were television show started all of this interest in the paranormal or aliens I'm sure that my re watching star trek movies and. Aliens all the time had something to do with it, but it's also possible I came across a book at one point or maybe even a television show or a special. I guess that probably isn't as important as what I do know sparked my interest in weird explain things and that is the early ads for time life's mysteries of the unknown. Chicago man is about to get an eighteen flight. Suddenly he pauses he doesn't know why but he's got to walk away and I would lead to the plane goes down in flames. As. Chess Britain. A woman has a sudden image of a Black Mountain that's moving with children trapped underneath it two hours. Later, a Welsh schoolhouse is buried in an avalanche of coal slag. This list as coincidence. Northern Texas. Divide fine reported by at least a dozen people follow the windows storms in the area is dismissed. It's lightning. Timely. Announcers an important new librarian mysteries and the unknown. Series that exposed the most controversial phenomenon of our take. Everything. Champion. The mid. West. A mother feels a show on the right hand far away at that exact same moment. Daughter Screams as she touches a hot, pan? Just, chance was telling US something about alone on capabilities. Mysteries of the unknown, those into unexplained phenomena. Documents the vaccinate What people were never willing to talk about? Stonehenge visitor fashions aware antenna in the shape of an ancient Egyptian symbol pointed at the stones and a surge of policies and Nothing conscious. Was it all in his mind. What is much more than that? You experienced. Have Begun Examining first month mystic places ten days. Breton Ben Decide. If you want to dismiss. To what are Your First Book Mystic Blazes? Call. One. Eight hundred five, three to eleven hundred, examine it for ten days. Keep it a page US twelve ninety nine to ninety, eight shipping and handling other books follow one about every other month Kibo the ones you want cancel it anytime call eight, hundred, five, three to eleven hundred. Time Life. Books is a company was a subsidiary to the larger media company of time life which published both those news and lifestyle magazines. I. Think that by the time this series came out life while still being published in its waning years. But there is a whole other talk we can have about how important life magazine was during the earlier part of the twentieth century. My School Library has bound hardcover collections of life in its reference section and I absolutely love a flipping through them the photographs, the stories, the ads, it's this wonderful time capsule that's both historical and Americana. Time as a magazine is still going pretty strong. But during the nineteen eighties time life was on the forefront of the specialty subscription when it came to both music and books. It's another story for another time but time life music was right up there with companies like tell selling compilation albums via TV commercials, you know the ones where the song title scroll up the Screen Wall to lovers nuzzle in front of a fire or walked along a beach. Well, they did this for book series as well. If you watched enough syndicated television or basic cable back in the eighties and nineties, you eventually saw an ad for time life book series, and if it wasn't for mystery so known that was possible that it was for either their book series of the Civil War or the home repair and improvement series. Those are the ones that feature commercials starring Bob, Vila? There were other series as well. Planet Earth the Third Reich Voyage through the universe, the enchanted world and World War Two were among them. And WIKIPEDIA has a pretty comprehensive list of all of the time life book series. This all was as time life product manager Tom Cory who came up with the idea for mysteries of the unknown says an article this posted to Atlas Obscure The air era of. Books as furniture. And I'M GONNA be referring to that Atlas Obscure Article Quite a bit in this section because it's a great history of the mysteries of the unknown book series also linked to it in the show notes. The phrase books is furniture might make you chuckle a little bit. It might sound a little pejorative, but it is very apt and we still see this to this day maybe not in terms of mail order book series but through coffee table books and other impressively oversized hardcovers that are constantly on display at the front of your local Barnes and noble stores. Heck Barnes and noble even publishes and sells fancy looking editions of famous works. Of Literature. Keeping. Alive. The idea of this had some volume, which is an important selling point of any collection because the spines of all the books of the time life book series match up, and they look really nice on a shelf hence books as furniture. And, those of us with trade paperback and graphic novel collections know exactly what I mean. And some of you who are listening are even looking at your marvel masterworks or DC archive shelves right now. So in this era of books, furniture were a series like the old West or the civil war were appealing to the adult channel surfer. Why mysteries of the unknown? One article. I mentioned from obscurity earlier. Gives us some backstory on it, and also clues into its success is one of the best selling time life book series. Mysteries of the unknown debuted in one, thousand, nine, hundred seven was published through ninety-one with thirty three books in the series seeing print. The offer that you heard of the commercial was similar model to the other subscription series keep all the ones you want and cancel at any time. According to the article, the books came out because there had been more widespread interest in the paranormal and the unknown in the eighties, and they were inspired by the success of timeless enchanted world series, which was basically a book about anything you'd see in your average dungeons and dragons manual. Tom Corey is quoted in the Atlas Obscure Article is saying that they saw success with enchanted worlds and then started looking for topics that were more odd in nature. The subsequent market research led them to what would become mysteries of the unknown. Sales were right when it debuted in nineteen eighty seven, the editors time life weren't too hip to the series though saying with Corey saying they all hated that stuff. But by the fall of nineteen, eighty-seven sales went through the roof partially or maybe just coincidentally due to something called the harmonic convergence. This took place on August sixteenth and seventeenth of nineteen, eighty seven and was considered the world's first synchronized global peace meditation. It also coincided with an alignment of planets in the solar system something that had been predicted by an ancient Mayan calendar. Supposedly, this was all going to rush in a new quote age of cosmic rebirth. And Look I don't know how believable that is but it did boost the interested the series and sales shot through the roof then became the commercials. Would you explain? Woman in Wisconsin is doing the dishes when suddenly possessed by terrifying feeling. He's positive in her young daughter has just been an exit. She quickly makes a desperate phone call only to learn that a feeling was true. How would you explain this? Doesn't people around the world we never met each other describing encounter with a being from space and the descriptions of the creature match almost exactly. How do you explain this? Man's lot stop speeding in a hospital He sees a blinding light that doesn't frighten. What? Indescribable feeling of peace. And how can you explain the growing number of people who feel that they had a brush with something beyond everyday understanding? Maybe No. One can fully explain these things, but they can no longer be ignored. That's why time light takes a serious look into this world with a remarkable new series mysteries of the unknown. To provide objective and comprehensive look at what may lie beyond ordinary reality How can you explain this? Draw to an ancient Anglo Saxon for no site of a fierce battle. into the shadows of a ring of trees without warning one of them is grabbed unseen force lifted five feet of the air and suspended for thirty six. There are so many of the world more remarkable the. Ability steadily barely suspected Your Body. See you explain these things? This was the second adv aired and I remember seeing it quite a few times. I also remember that the portion where they show the repeated drawings of the aliens scared the ever loving crap out of me to the point where it gave me nightmares. Other commercials included this one from nineteen, eighty nine, which started then unknown Julianne Moore. I would never have believed it until one night I woke up around three o'clock in the morning I, felt something cold against my shoulder. It was the ceiling. I was looking down at my own body doesn't make any sense to me. I wouldn't believe it for a second. I. Don't know I dreamt something one Senate came true the next day maybe there is something to it. All just coincidence. That's what I think. I was thinking of my childhood friend the other day I had for years then all of a sudden, the phone rings. And it's her. Coincidence there's a word for it, the paranormal and it's one of the biggest issues of our age. Now Time Light looks brings you mysteries of the unknown that looks into area from ESP two pre cognition to Elian encounters to give you all the sides. Scientists. I'm willing to be open minded but in my profession we live by positive. I still say it's mass hysteria. My daughter didn't want to get on that school bus I didn't know why. But something told me to take her seriously. I'm glad I did even just some of these things are real. Do. Not that would mean here in one place other newly researched facts, first person reports and scientific experiments. So you can. For Yourself, there are so many hints civil world more remarkable than we ever imagined. If you've ever wondered about the unknown, examine your first ballgame for ten days free and take a serious look at a world that can no longer be ignored. I never thought I would believe in it until it happened to me. As. Well as this later ad campaign, which had the slogan read the book. Another. Give. Thanks for all. You're on an incantation native Americans believe there's a spiritual energy here. Do you well, I am intrigued with mystic places from some of my reading. How do you? Read. About time life's captivating series mysteries of the unknown. Mystic places. Not My thing but it looks like you're into it. I'm beginning to think there are special powers that these mystic places. Places like Mr, Connecticut. Georgia talking a lot closer like Arizona California desert. Let's mystic about that. Read the book read what was found their incredible giant figures like five hundred year old mojave twins. Drawn read the book and what about the Bermuda Triangle? That's right a pile once at a wild experience there anything like Bruce Kernin's. I, he was by mysterious scar shaped cloud. Then the paranormal experiences really started. Read the book. Read about the strange voyage of Cleopatra's needle sixty, eight foot pillar dedicated to the sun gods what happened read the book read Mystic Places It's yours free for ten days. Keep it in other volumes will follow one about every other month including psychic powers then psychic voyages and dreams and dreaming each is an unbiased presentation. So you can draw your own conclusions getting psyched up about this psychic business tickets for the sacred Earth tour we'll get the tickets. The. Books. I gotTa admit that I'm partial to the original ads because of their creepy nece while the read the book slogan became a pretty well known catchphrase for the time that ad still sounds like one of those annoying radio commercials where people have a random conversation. Mr Simpson I guarantee you will come up with a commercial Lincoln's Save Your Business, you know those radio ads were to people with annoying voices, Yarmur back and forth I those. But Hey. Those ads were popular and like I said, thirty three different mysteries of the unknown books were published. I'm not going to list them all here. I'll put that in the show notes, but here are some of them. Alien encounters. Dreams, and dreaming haunting 's Bastia Creatures Mystic, places mystic quests phantom encounters the psychics, the search for immortality secrets of the alchemists, the ufo phenomenon, and visions and prophecies. I never actually owned any of these. I was not in the position to purchase anything more than a Comic Book and Penny Candy. Back. In. Nineteen eighty seven because I was ten years old and apparently living in mayberry riverdale. But like I said I went to the library and once I spotted one of the books of the shelves I was determined to find as many as I possibly could. The only problem was that they weren't exactly easy to find the card catalogue because they were often listed by the individual volume names instead of mysteries of the unknown. So unless I knew the name of the individual book like mystic places I didn't know where it would be. Or did I. After all these were books as furniture and every single one of them looked the same. With the same black cover, the same black spine and the same title font on that spine. So, what did I do? Well, I would go to the library and start looking on each shelf of the nonfiction section to see if I could spot a thin black spine book and I did that starting in section zero one and going all the way to section nine, hundred, ninety, nine. And not just once I did it every single time I visited the library for the time I was like really into checking these books out. And each time I'd grab at least one of them. Although. I never really read them. I mean I met her at sections of the mood. It's not like I sat down and read them cover to cover I usually just flip through them. Maybe read a few of the sections in the articles. Let him sit in my room until I had to return them. Some of them are checked out more than once that ufo phenomenon alien encounters one haunting 's one I remember checking those out multiple times. But Hey I remember the pictures inside being cool and some of the stories were pretty fascinating. And it's been thirty years thirty years. Since those days of combing through the library, and as I thought of how to research this episode I went back to the same place I used to go thirty years ago. All right I did not go back to the same exact place because that building is no longer in use by the public library built a brand new one of few about ten or fifteen years ago. But I did check out to see the civil public library has copy of any of these because they haven't online card catalog. And they do still have a copy of the UFO phenomenon listed. So even though they've called most of the series over the years, something does remain. No what I did is I to my own public library that Jefferson Madison Regional Library in Charlottesville I looked up what they have in their card catalog I managed to snag five of them and actually read those cover to cover. So I'm going to be highlighting. Mystic places mystic quests, the psychics, the search for immortality and secrets of the alchemists. I'll be starting with Mr places mainly because that's the book that you got when you signed up and made that phone call. And honestly, I'm not going to go through each of these books in fine detail because that would be a really really log episode. I'd say well. Read the book. But these aren't exactly easy to come by these days meaning you can't just go order them on Amazon or your local Barnes and noble sure you can find them use Amazon and some full sets show up on Ebay but I can also imagine that if you're one of the type of people who likes to use book stores or antique junk shops like those sorts of things maybe the occasional garage sale, you might find them. I'm actually now kind of curious as to whether or not the garage sale gloat crew has ever come across well, mysteries of the owner really any of those time life book either complete or a were in part and if they've ever actually. You know bought them and then turn them around for a profit on Ebay. Anyway back to the books. If mystic places was your trial offer, it's actually a really good trial offer because instead of giving you a book that is about some weird obscure thing or something that might have a passing interest in secrets of the alchemists which I'll get to later, for instance. You Start Your series with some of the well most well known real life places in the world, as well as some of the most well-known legendary places like for instance Atlantis which opens the book. And just like you will hear me say with any of the other books that I read. This is a pretty thorough retelling of not just the legend of the lost city of Atlantis but where it has made appearances in ancient literature such as Plato and how through history there have been people with supposed- insights as to what the city contained and how was almost magical in nature. And that history goes all the way up to the twentieth century because there's always somebody who psychic or claims to be psychic or says they can communicate with the people of the city or they know where it's located or whatever. and IT'S A it's it provides background on on just how far people will go to prove these legends right which really gives some depth to these books. The second place they move into is a very real place that's the Great Pyramid of Giza and they focused not only on its history but people's efforts to discover the secrets behind it in fact, the writers do this with two places that receive heavy focus and are real megaliths in. Great Britain such as Stonehenge and the notch and his lines in Peru. Those sections while they are really fascinating and has some really cool stories in it read more like a history textbook than a book of mythology. Legend in the unknown. The time life's credit they're all thoroughly researched and they're also presented relatively unbiased. One thing I noticed throughout reading these books is that they don't try to twist the facts of anything. So they can reach some sort of conclusion they always wanted you to reach. This isn't some wild speculation that you can easily debunk in fact, much of what's in books. And in mystic places especially is about those people who offered up those wild speculations that were eventually disproven because, oh, modern scientific advancements, archaeological discoveries, the application of basic logic. Yeah there are a few wild stories. The ones from the commercials were someone who stood next to Stonehenge with some sort of Rod and felt energy shoot through his hand and that other one involving weird limitation gather both there. But unlike some half ass internet article or Youtube Video, the authors don't try to tie things to the place beyond saying that had happened leaving us to conclude things for ourselves in the same way that we're asked to reach conclusions regarding the Bermuda. Triangle. The possibility of a separate magical world inside the earth like the savage land or scarf horace or something. A companion volume to mystic places mystic quests pretty much does the same thing except it's about things that are the stuff of legend in people's obsession with finding them. The major focus of this particular volumes mostly I'm biblical Lore. Specifically, the final resting place of Noah's Ark. The secrets of the Holy Grail. Their presentation regarding Noah's Ark is more or less an account of people's efforts to climb Mount Arafat because that is where the Bible says it came to rest after the great flood in Genesis. The Holy Grail is actually more intriguing at least it was to me. Probably because I used to watch Indiana Jones and the last crusade like all the time when I was younger and I thought the whole idea of quest for the holy grail was really awesome because it is and you know I might do a show in that movie or or three and legend during the holy grail or something because it's always been something I've been interested in. In the same way, I was interested in this stuff. But I admit I have not gone as far or read as much into all of that since. Oh. Gosh. Maybe College aside from watching x caliber and reading issues the one, the issues ione of camelot three, thousand you know that's that's basically the extent that I've done over the last decade and a half two decades. Anyway. As far as mystic quests and the holy grail are concerned. The book takes the approach of what it is how has been interpreted and reinterpreted is literally the Cup that Christ drank from it the last supper. Is it. His bloodline is it more of an abstract ideal? The editors and writers don't purport to be the authority here and instead provide us with a primer on the topic. It's a real well, it's a well researched primer, of course. But they knew their limitations and actually have a bibliography in the back of the book that lists their source material. That's helpful to anyone back then who wanted to investigate something like the holy grail or like I said Alchemy, which was the focus of the secrets of the alchemists a book that was probably my least favorite of the ones I checked out. I. Think this is because while the others could all tie something to the present day, there's not much of that in the whole alchemy discussion. The secrets of the alchemist gets into the history of people's efforts to find the source of transportation and takes a look at the history of the alchemist society in the Middle Ages and renaissance, but really doesn't go much beyond that. And the way the book series could mix both the ancient or medieval with more modern and contemporary is it's real strength in the search for immortality we get the obligatory mystic quest for the mystic place that being the Fountain of Youth. But there's also chapters about people who claim mortality. Or people who. Live to be extremely old as well as what was then the burgeoning science of cryogenics. That last topic was what I found fascinating because of the time it was published in the late nineteen eighties. cryogenics was getting some mainstream attention and people are actually convinced enough to invest in it and put it into their end of life planning. But in the intervening decades this was. Well I. Don't know if it was debunked so much as it proved untenable for the companies that were practising it. I can't remember what podcast I listened to. It might have been episode of back story or it was an episode of this American Life. But they. They actually did the segment on one of the companies that did cryogenics and how the upkeep of the frozen corpses costs a lot of money. So much money that force these companies business in the bodies were being kept stored in like people's garages and stuff. So with that in mind the curiosity found in the search for immortality. Here is kind of fun to read. If you follow up with the sort of and then what happened. In the past thirty years. Such curiosity and speculation as to whether or not. Any of the strange stuff works or is true can be found in the last volume I read, which is called the psychics. And how many TV shows and movies have we seen over the years? Someone has psychic powers. Again. None of what is in this book is presented. His absolutely true were absolutely false just is weird mysterious circumstances. Some people have claimed to have predicted events. Others claim to be able to psychically he'll. But then there's that whole late eighties, early nineties phenomenon of police using psychics to help them solve crimes. I mean I'm sure that some police departments still do this, but it's the type of stuff you would have seen on shows like a current affair at the time. And that kind of fringes where miss stuff like mysteries of the unknown lived and still lives to a certain extent. I'd say that like the X. Files is the most mainstream, any of this fringe unknown stuff ever really became. And you'd think that was my interest in these topics. I would have been like an X. Files Mega Fan Stan as the kids say these days. I'm not really I mean I watched the show not every weekend when it was on just like from time to time and I remember going to see the first movie theater but. I was a casual fan at best and really enjoyed it. But never really became like You know absolutely absorbed and You know the Encyclopedia Britannica Guy Level of X. Files Fan remember me I'm the report you on space that I got the new encyclopedia Britannica. Do on space, and then he got the new encyclopedia made that abundantly clear Yes. Granted I think had I been like maybe at the beginning of high school? Were a couple years younger. I. Might have been really really into the X. files premiered around the time I started going thinking of going to a college and once I got to college. You know I still had comics in would watch a Lotta movies and stuff like that. But Might TV, viewing habits shifted From, endless hours of syndicated TV in Shahnawaz to stuff like friends. And The eight hours sportscenter I needed to watch every day. You know when I wasn't class. But mysteries of the unknown has a place in popular culture because of all the rather terrible basic cable shows and youtube videos that dot the landscape. As they take the formula established by time life as well as nineteen seventies in nineteen eighty shows like in search of and Ripley's believe it or not and put it all into perpetual reruns. I actually don't watch these shows on a regular basis because I don't have the time or I find them like the bad kind of cheesy. Because, at least this book series while Cheesy in places had some academic chops. And didn't try to rely on some guy with weird hair to become a meme for its appeal. Now, one series that I also watched in the late nineteen, eighty s and early nineteen nineties that also has a far-reaching legacy albeit more with true crime than the unknown even if it did tackle the occasional strange phenomena. Is NBC's unsolved mysteries. and. That's in the second half of this episode which I'm going to cover right after this. Royal. Drama. Must. SNARK. Comedy. heartbreak. Really to to the. Poetry. ILLICIT AFFAIRS RAKE REVENGE Testosterone poisoning. Gunshots. Sculpture. Feminine Hygiene Products Naked Clark Crafts. No we haven't had in a long time. And deliver. Terry more strangers in paradise. The audio adaptation come into your ear holes in late twenty twenty on the true freaks podcast network. Liver is my. Unsolved mysteries debuted a series of one hour specials airing on NBC on January Twentieth Nineteen eighty-seven, these specials there were about six or seven and all roasted by Raymond, Burr, Karl Malden, and then Robert. Stack and stack hosted the last few of them and eventually became the host of the series. Would it began airing in September of one, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight. The show ran on Wednesday nights. It was a top twenty show for its first three seasons before dropping into the top thirty eventually getting canceled by NBC and Nineteen ninety-six. CBS picked it up in Nineteen ninety-seven. They added Virginia Madsen as a CO host and ran it for two more seasons until nineteen, ninety nine but eventually accident as well. The show like I said before the break was geared more toward true crime than the unexplained type of the stuff that time life was giving us over in mysteries of the unknown. But it did dabble in the weird from time to time certainly provided a weird and creepy mood something that was helped along by stacks hosting a narration which was intense but not completely over the top. Of course, Robert Stack had made a career for himself back in television's golden age playing. Eliot, ness on the untouchables and brings the same kind of intensity to the show and intensity of the show needed because it was also competing with America's most wanted the Fox show hosted by the similarly intense John Walsh that had kind of a similar format. There was a case that needed solving reenactments of the crimes were often stage and the show had a call center where you could dial into help. But while am w specifically focused on fugitives, unsolved mysteries went beyond crimes and talked about people who wanted to be reunited with long lost siblings or other problems. The reenactments by the way sometimes featured actors who were now well known way before their time. These included Cheryl Hines Daniels, a Kim David Ramsay Taryn, kill him and Matthew mcconaughey. Hey. It's hard to sum up the entire series. Be completely honest. I mean the back half of a podcast episode that I'm to keep to about an hour and honestly unsolved mysteries could be its own podcast. In fact, there are websites devoted to keeping a case file for mysteries even updating them for today. So I decided to do instead was pick a random episode, watch it and hit all of its highlights. And it was easy to find because the show as of this recording is available to stream. Through Amazon prime. Now, you have to watch a few ads during the episode, but that wasn't really much of a big deal to me I went with an episode from season two because that's when the show had its highest ratings in that it was the eleventh ranked show for the year. And this was season two episode four, which aired on October Eighteenth Nineteen eighty-nine. Now, what's cool about the packaging of these episodes on streaming is that if a case had been updated at some point after the original airing that update was added to the new episode and streaming didn't have to go try to find it out later. I'm pretty sure this might have been done at some point prior to maybe DVD releases or when the show is airing in reruns on lifetime in the nineties. The show begins with a disclaimer. This program is about unsolved mysteries whenever possible the actual family members and police officials have participated in recreating the events where you're about to see is not a news broadcast. I have to admit that the disclaimer did me the first time I saw it and I think that's because I'm so used to basic cable reality trash that the idea of events being restaged using the actual people being a novelty or even upsetting to some people struck me as weird. But yes. In many cases, the people involved in the case or the family members were put on screen to reenact the crimes or some other event that was important to the story. In some cases, they're not too bad as far as acting goes in other cases. Even the best director couldn't save that seen. The show has a cold open with Robert, stack in a building somewhere dressed in a coat and shirt and tie again he was Eliot Ness. So he's just projecting that serious Eliot ness image and he knows how to do it. I thought that maybe they done a location shoot when I was watching it. But after seeing him walk around in the outside leader on the episode with the lights having that smoke effect, you tend to only see on movie and TV sets I'm pretty sure this was just shot somewhere backlog burbank. He goes through a summary of the cases we'll see for the evening as the theme plays behind him, and then he delivers the shows insurer line. It's live from New York. It's Saturday night if you will. Furry mystery. There is someone somewhere who knows the truth perhaps it's you. So I played the theme song at the beginning of the segment, and for those of us who are kids in the eighties and nineties it's an iconic theme song one that's easily recognizable and in some cases scary my wife cannot stand the unsolved mysteries theme song. I personally love it. It's it's got this whole tubular bells thing going. And if you watch the injured of the show, you've got like the graphics which are so just of their time, they are late eighties computer graphics complete with mysteries written in a script font and a granite background just it's so perfect. Sir I case a wanted case in Lyons Nebraska of women named Marie Anton moves into an apartment. She's kind of secretive about her life all the people around her nose that she is limp because she was a very bad car accident one point long ago and she attends church regularly. She doesn't have a car there's four she relies on rides from other people, and at one point she tells one of friends and neighbors that she's kind of on the run from her ex husband and the drug dealing men with whom he was involved. Then she goes missing. Eleven days later, her body is found in a fields completely naked with a blood alcohol level of point to to. This does not match up with anything that her friends set about her. State investigators start looking into it and they discover that she was lying about her ex husband and she was actually living a double life. She tended to hang around bars in the outskirts of town and eventually started a relationship with the local police chief Jim Webb Jim Webb. In fact, she was living in the area of Arnolds Park Nebraska before she moved to lions and the speculation is that she moved to be with Jim. But he was involved in a relationship and when she confronted him about the relationship. She kinda lost it. The confrontation turned violent. He killed her then he removes her clothes and all possible evidence the tied her to him and deliberately dumped her body in a field that was technically on a need of American reservation because he knew that might caused jurisdiction issues once Brassica state police CSI her apartment and his apartment they found traces of blood everywhere while in the eventually matched it up to him. It's very much of the true crime template that we were already seeing from America's most wanted at the time. And we would see in the show that unsolved mysteries directly influenced in a big way, which is dateline the NBC show. GRANTED dateline does tend toward being a newsmagazine show like the venerable ABC Program Twenty Twenty. But in recent years, it's been more of a true crime show that basically focuses on a mystery. A case like this would fit in very well as it has all of the intrigue you look for in this, you've got a woman who moves into a small town in seems to have a bit of mysterious past but then she disappears and it's discovered that she has been leading a double life and sleeping with the chief of police, and he's now the prime suspect in the murder is on the run I mean where is Keith Morrison when you need him? Thankfully an update is available as Jim Webb was picked up in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety-three, three when the show was rerun because a guy he worked with at a construction company in Florida saw him saw the show and call then. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter. He served eight years in prison and then was released. Next up is a lost loves segment, and that is about siblings in the Rogers family of Locust Grove Oklahoma. They were separated from one another when they were very young. These children were growing up in a log cabin. We're living in abject poverty with an alcoholic father who beat their mother and most of them as well. Eventually the kids, and there are six of them are taken by CPS and put into an orphanage and the last time they saw one another was in nineteen, sixty, eight at their mother's funeral after her suicide their father was at the funeral as well. But he was in police custody because he was serving time for killing someone in a fight in Arkansas. He eventually died as well. During the nineteen eighties, the kids start trying to find one another with three of them reuniting nineteen eighty-four, and that is where the bad acting and the reenactments that I mentioned comes in. They have the adult children, reenact their reunions and they recite their lines like little kids to play in class. It's Kinda charming and just makes the show kind of fun to watch in that regard. But overall it's a touching story because it's the three of the meet up and then return to that log cabin with a retrospective of their lives as children, and it doesn't feel exploitative. In. In the way that show, the certainly could be. I think what helps is that stack commits to a very straightforward narration of the segment and the producers show similar restraint letting the siblings speak for themselves especially because of mystery still remains and that is the location of the two remaining brothers. That by the way is updated at the end of the segment as the day after the show aired in one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine, they called into the show and contact was eventually made with the siblings. Moreover, the producers were at the airport when they got off the plane to meet them. It's a very sweet moment. In one thing I noticed was how the updates were shot on video while the actual segment was shot on film I suppose that was done to save time and money. The other thing that is wonderfully noticeable about the entirety of this episode and really most of the episodes I've watched in the last couple of years of unsolved mysteries is all of the eighties fashion and styling and I don't mean eighties as far as we're having eighties night 'cause play type stuff I mean like the everyday look of somebody in one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine in like. You know middle of Nowhere Nebraska everything about it's just this perfect time capsule. All right. So getting back into the show we have we've been update on a story wherein America's most wanted fashion someone called into this show and got this person captured. The guy's name is John Mooney who is wanted for paying tap have someone killed in Georgia in the late Seventies. Both he and his hired murderer had been convicted and sentenced, but Mooney escaped and he was found living under the alias of. Robert Kelly. And is now serving a life sentence. The final story of the episode is an unexpected death. In this one, Cook County Illinois police officer named Ralph probst is shot in the back of the head through kitchen window while his wife was in the next room and had dozed off the couch while watching the academy. Awards. His friend and fellow Cop Bob Arou- ski does the Graveside Promise to fight his serial killer and at one point they linked to Sam Distefano a mobster they have been charged with guarding who hated probst threatening to kill him. However many of the lease dead end. The speculation is that someone shot him because he'd been working on a case probably to break up a vice ring and maybe got you got too close to something. Some quick googling shows that the case is still unsolved at least as twenty seventeen and is still considered a cold case. Illinois I also found that there have been articles published here and there over the years, the speculate that may actually tied to other killings but nothing has seem to come of that although the case was covered onto unsolved mysteries related podcasts. See I told you this episode by episode show in itself those podcast by the way are called resolved mysteries and the stack pack. I can't vouch for either of them I've never listened to them but I suppose if you're a fan of the show, they might be worth checking out. As for unsolved mysteries itself, the show was revived on lifetime in two thousand but stacks illness, and then death in two thousand, two stopped production. It was then revived in two thousand, eight by spike and it was hosted by Dennis. Farina. That revival ran for one, hundred, seventy, five episodes until it was cancelled in two, thousand ten. Despite cancellation though the creators of the show run, unsolved dot com, which is the show's official site that includes case updates in an online forum for anyone who has tips on one of the still unsolved cases. The show also had a youtube page going where viewers can submit their own cases. Recently though net flicks rebooted unsolved mysteries and drop the stack of episode. Sorry I couldn't resist on July first twenty twenty. Watched, the first episode I have to tell you I couldn't get through it. There was no host known aeration only one case for the hour. So in other words, it's like they took generic true crime show and slept the title unsolved mysteries on it. Thinking people would go for it right for the nostalgia value. The thing is though when you get rid of the elements that made the show charming and interesting the host, the presentation that are ration- The reenactments, the call center. You lose the show it doesn't need to be more sophisticated. Intelligent than it is when you watch it in reruns. Yeah true crime has its own fandom and its own sort of rule so to speak but. To the people who really WanNa Watch it for the style JE value knowing that it's on. Amazon. I don't know I'm GONNA WANNA watch the news stuff if it's not the same and. Rob Stacks not with US anymore, but you could have gotten. A. Host and done it in the same format and. Kind of. Just, a remake of the original with new cases and it would have been really really interesting to do but. Now. It's just. Literally, wasn't the same and that was the And that was that was the problem. So unsolved mysteries itself I really love love watching when I when I catch an episode here and there it wasn't a show that I watched the Raillard during the television season, but it was like A. Regular part of my summer rerun watching because that was around the time where I could go to bed leader and therefore You know I could stay up actually watch this. And I honestly remember it more for the theme song and Robert Stack than any of the actual cases which is why I wanted to you know play play us in with that and stuff but. Like mysteries of the unknown also faded from my interest over time. Now entirely mind you since my time combing the stacks and Civil Library I would always come back to these unsolved mysteries of the unknown in some way or another. I had a friend in high school who at one point got obsessed with the Montauk project. That's an urban legend. Slash conspiracy theories surrounding possible secret government experiments at the camp hero military base at Montauk point. We'd ride our bikes to the library in the neighboring town of Patch He would check out books on Inter. Library loans. And the moment he got a car during our senior year we drove all the way out to Montauk and I think we took my girlfriend with us to and did some urban exploring. Now I will completely admit that I was a total Wuss when it came to like sneaking around an old army base because I was afraid I'd get caught and I lived my entire life at that point worry about whether or not they get in trouble for something. I still live my life worrying about whether or not. I'll get in trouble for things but honestly It was Kinda cool and the mantra project in itself and that whole thing probably could be its episode one day If. He worth a trip out there too. Even though I'm like God, I think I'm like a good nine ten hour drive away for Montauk point where I live in Charlottesville so I don't know I'll stick a pin in that one, right So, is the ninety s were on into the early two thousands. After high school at after that trip that friend Um, you had sites like stopes pop up. Because the Internet came and it really. In a fun way and in a crazy scary way, put these things back into our Conscious. into our into our into our orbit. So to speak and I used to spend a lot of time looking urban legends, probably should have been doing work. My Office job to this damn. As I didn't get fired surprise, they'd got laid off but a musician get fired. And during the last two decades, I've read books like, Weird Virginia I've browsed through various dark five youtube lists. And I really and I would recommend listening to this There are several a couple. Dozen or so or maybe a little more episodes apprentice magnus punches reality from a number of years ago where he and Chris Honeywell went through each of the big books series know the big book of Urban Legends, the Big Book of Cetera and. They were great. They kinda scratched this issue. when I was not expecting it to and You know like I said every once in a while you know. You approach that Rabbit Hole Pique your head in and look into that night. You know it's it's it's something that I've always been fascinated with but you know don't have any expertise on it at I'm looking at these things for for the sheer nostalgia of it. You know. Do they hold up. Yeah. On some level, they do mysteries of the unknown if you can find them in a library somewhere or do you use bookstore, you've got the money to kind of drop some money on it I, pick it up or at least flip through it. So you can see some really well put together books unsolved mysteries. Go check that out. It's a great way to kill like forty five minutes or something a lunch break or something streaming over Amazon Prime and it's it's a heck of a lot of fun to see this even if they're very serious cases and can be very grim but it's way more enjoyable than some of the other stuff that we get subjected to from time to time on on television. That'll be it for the main part of this episode not done yet though I do have some feedback and going to take a break right now and when I get back, I'll be reading feedback. So stick around. Our. From fetid swamps to creepy casts, the podcasting hour is your home for her on the fire and water network. Join ME PJ frightful on this quarterly anthology podcast that days is into the mysterious and terrifying shadows of DC comics. The moon is full and the bell toll. For midnight, the podcast now. and. I'm back and I'm going to take us out with some feedback from episode one thirteen that was taped off the radio songs etcetera from around ninety, one, ninety, two, ninety, three. Robert. Ward writes in on facebook saying Oh my God I, love the song instant Karma, it's so hard to choose one song from John Solo period as a favourite though as he is my favorite beatle like you, I find so many times I will quote rediscover certain songs and fall in love with them all over again for the longest time. My absolute favorite Solo Song was give me some truth which I heard for the first time in the radio during a Beatles themed show. I love that you mentioned gin blossoms to I really need to listen to more of their songs, their Song Kelli Richards about obsession over porn star is effing brilliant. The one you played sounds interesting I really need to listen to some more. Thanks Robert Yeah. New miserable experience is the album that hey, jealousy comes off an honestly you know that's their most known album congratulations I'm sorry was the follow up the only song I've ever Listened to repeatedly off that one is follow you down which was the one that charted. and. Then of course, there's a song to i. hear it from me, which is off the empire records soundtrack the stuff beyond that I really have can't tell you anything about I. Mike Period of listening to the GIN blossoms actively would have been very mid nineties early to mid nineties period and I still listen to it but Thankfully, spotify is my friend in that regard and I can always. Check some of their stuff out I recommend them I, recommend am always a big. Proponent. Of Group better than Ezra. Anyway. This is an email from Michael Belly and if you haven't had the chance Mike and I did Of us from the long box about the summer of nineteen ninety that as of this recording just dropped and I had a great great time talking to him. So go over there to the fortress of Bali Tude and check that out. It was a really fun conversation very much like the two that we did in the past on Pop Culture David where we did the comics of nine, hundred, ninety four, and then we did that two parter the crossover from views in and the show about mail order comics in Wizard magazine. So it's very much those veins in and. I had a lot of fun and from what I've listened to so far. it really came out well, so it's good stuff. Anyway here's Mike Tom. I'm listening to your taped off the radio episode and while I definitely related listening to the radio in my room during junior high and high school. I never made tapes like you did. Anyway. You played a bit of a black forty seven song and it sparked a memory. In my junior year a guy named Eric entered the friends group. He had just moved from new. Jersey I believe and fit in pretty well to the ECLECTIC mix of people I hung out with he was into music music. You didn't hear much of the radio and this I learned of a bunch of groups that I would never have nor beliefs stumbled across. One day after school I think before rehearsal for the musical we were doing at the time he played the song combs. He played the song called James Connolly. Really liked it that Irish Celtic thing always appealed to me and it had extra mix of being about a historical figure. So I am into the song like Whoa and it gets to the bridge were the lead singers just going on about how he's probably about to die but they need to fight this lyric happens they locked us out the band are unions the even treat their animals better than us. And Eric out of nowhere says, they let their animals form unions. And the magic of the song was gone funny story though great episode as always Mike thanks for emailing in. Mike and like I said, go check out that view serve along box episode also check out The overlooked dark night Andy Lind just wrapped up a two parter about the cult, the Batman storyline that Andy, and I actually covered a few years ago on this show. So it'll be interesting to it was really really well done and really enjoyed listening to that. As for me November I've got two things coming out. If all schedule and goes well, Andy, and I are going to be talking about James Bond over on fallen walls curtains, which will hear toward the very end of November. And in a few weeks again, according to the schedule A is going to be on here because we are going to be talking about music from nineteen ninety again and how it dovetails with the world of fashion and supermodels specifically because thirty years ago the week this episode is dropping. The Song Freedom Ninety and the video for Freedom Ninety by George Michael were released. and well, it's one of the most iconic music videos of the period and probably one of the best things to David Pitcher ever directed. So we're going to be talking about that, and then we're GONNA conversation going to head into the areas of fashion supermodels and that aspect of culture, which I really haven't covered too much on the show. But if there's anybody who I'm going to talk about fashion and supermodels and designers like all that stuff with it's going to be my wife. So come back for that until then you can leave a comment on facebook follow me on twitter at pop popoff and as always. Thank you very much for listening and take. Thanks for listening to pop culture affidavit, which is produced by me Tom Pana race. All clips are copyright their respective copyright holders and no infringement is intended. This podcast is part of the to true freaks Internet Radio Network, which you can find at to true freaks Dot Com. If you like the show, please leave a review on Apple podcasts helps the show get noticed by other people. Feedback by email can be sent to pop culture affidavit at G MAIL DOT COM. For show notes and essays and other things random in the world of popular culture visit pop culture affidavit dot com. You can also follow the show on facebook at facebook dot com slash pop culture affidavit. And on twitter at pop bath. That's P. O. P. A. F. F. Thanks for listening and come back next time for more pop culture randomness.

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Night Owl Sound Studio presents: Body Parts a medical thriller Ch. 5 6

True Mysteries of the Pacific Northwest

16:53 min | 2 months ago

Night Owl Sound Studio presents: Body Parts a medical thriller Ch. 5 6

"Welcome to night owl. Sound studio presents body. Parts orion claire medical thriller chapter five in chapter four listened to a young claire. Who's caught up in a pornographic movie wondering how she ever came to this and reminiscent as she sits in the shower scrubbing her skin until it turns pink. We leave her there for chapter five. It was six. Am rai was on the multi station. Weight machine doing inclined presses with one hundred fifty pounds while claire began her core workout. The building that house mad dash ambulance was an old victorian house. The bottom floor consisted of two car garage that house the ambulance the kitchen and workout area. Where the living room had gone spin. Claire had converted the two downstairs bedrooms the smaller one and into dispatch room the other into a supply room one of the upstairs bedrooms shoes just a library and the other left as a bedroom. They work three days on four days off on workdays they were on call. Twenty four hours. They worked out every morning no exceptions. Though often their workouts were interrupted. They were on their third day of work when he finished his last wrap rice. Step two way from the white machine and turn to watch. Claire work through your crunches. The side of a working so hard reminded him of how hard it had been to get the business going. Ten years just to get us started. They had been married five years when they jointly decided. They were tired of working for someone else at age. Forty nine at already worked her way from emergency medical technician to trauma nurse in the emergency room of medford. General hospital was a supervisor of medford ambulance service. He gave an audible sigh. The thought of getting knocked down to the bottom of the wrong right back where they started from. What's wrong is too high clear. Said xecute another push. Now your butts fine. i was just thinking holding. can't really afford a polar license. that's why he just reduced our status. She finished her forty ninth. Push up one for every birthday and rolled onto her back great when they finally do find rusty wherever he is well. We'll get to work our way back up to the top of the ladder. What another ten years said you'll be sixty three righteous. Just shook his head started his core exercises. Clear began her kicks. She always brought up their age when she was upset. At least will pay the bills. Who said a crackling sound interrupted their bantering. Both stop what they were doing. And look expectantly at a corner where the speaker lived mad dash ambulance jurisdiction over chessel county medford ambulance covered all of jackson. County mad dash also represented search and rescue for both counties. Emergency calls were received by the nine eleven emergency center and dispatch to the appropriate ambulance service. Rai walked over pushed the remote button on the wall that rolled back to huge double garage. Door started. Traffic lights flashing amber slowing traffic on. Snoop drive unity. Eight code three voice pause and static continued to crackle from the speakers. they looked at each other knowingly. A code three lights and sirens. Eighty-eight was mad dash heart attack to thirty eight. Bushel drive cascade circle estates. Should i knew it. Claire said grabbing her towel. Streaking across the room. At least we're still getting calls. Rice said claire stop spinning to face him right back to the bottom of the barrel again you know how many false alarms of come out of retirement community. Mad dash visited cascades circle estates dozens of times before acquiring genucel county residents. Were prone to panic. Renew that appeared. They drove the five miles and silence during the circular driveway. The past in front of the retirement home where the manager jim webb met them. You always loved a little chagrined. Whenever they drove up the facility had been the site of so many false alarms over the years that he felt embarrassed every time an ambulance pulled into the drive. Clear went around to the rear of the beast putting on the backpack the contained oxygen and the ad defibrillator. Ri- walked over to greet web ellen. Polder emergency cord. When i went up to her apartment. She said she thought she was having a heart attack. She's to eight. I hope this isn't another false alarm elected. His feet ran a hand through his hair. God what am i saying. Better safe than sorry. Wry smile the agitated manager never hesitate to call. Really clear was halfway to the front door when riot caught up with her colored horwitz room to await when they exit the elevator onto the second floor. Halloween standing with the help of her cane just outside our apartment door ride jogged up to her house heart. Oh i'm so embarrassed. I took a thomson. My symptoms simply disappeared. It must have been the sausage. I'm glad to hear that. But as long as i'm here well we could hook you up and look at. The numbers no cost no problem. Helen reached out gave his arm. Squeeze no thank you dearie fine. He smiled down at the tiny woman on glad to hear it was a false alarm. He gave his watch a quick class. Better find my partner. See if we can grab a quick brunch. He looked around at spotted clarity end of the hall moving in his direction. He parked the gurney by the elevator. Headed up to meet her. He passed a couple returning to their room with a slow halting gate of the elderly. Hello rice said came up beside them. The man stop seemingly happy for the rest leaned on his walker looked up a ride. Did helen have another case of indigestion. Looks that way. The man turned to his wife told you so without another word. Couple continued on their way when he looked up clear with standing next to him. Someone hall need our systems. Rice said just talking. The woman says her neighbor had been on a list for liver replacement for over a year and is beginning to fade. Ri- reach for the elevator button. Mark one than hesitated. Do you think we should revisit. Cler shrugged of shoulder to reposition the backpack better. Not were already had enough hot water. You're right you press the button as the accident. The elevator Around for web sticking his head into the office while player push the gurney through the double doors. He soon joined her at the absence. She reached under the gurney and pull the lever that dropped from waist high two inches above the ground. You find the manager. He's probably dealing with some other crisis. He bent grabbing the rail of the collapse gurney to three left together they lifted the gurney pushed it into the ambulance to that woman. Say what our neighbors gonna do about deliver roy. Ask latching gurney in place. You won't like the answer. They walked around and climbed in the cab. What you gotta do. Rice said snapping his hardest place. Apparently the sun is going to buy liver off the block. Market you're right. I don't like it. I just read. How block market organs are usually contaminated. How blocked market liberty can cost up to three hundred thousand dollars. He started the engine Left at neutral wall to seniors crossed in front of the ambulance. They tried to eat at the plaza cafe whenever they were in town. Because it was outside seating and the food was good clear would set the alarm to lights and siren lights and horn. It seemed they were always just beginning a meal when a call came through and suddenly the ambulance came alive. But on this day ri- packed a lunch. Set out to find a place to park and is he liked to say he did. He called the ambulance under a huge modera- cyprus at hung over a corner of the parking lot of ruby parked claire released her hardest leaned against the door. Here we are brown bag in it Chambas next to no chance of getting a call. Let's say we call it a day and head home. That concludes chapter five. Now chapter six. I static than a frantic voice. Not the dispatcher. Ri- reached across to the scanner. Crank up volume ten seven request assist old hanley farm. That was it. No repetition of the address no lingering static and definitely not dispatch. Isn't that paul's place. Clarkson lunch forgotten. Ri- brought the ambulance to life with a twist. To the key the lugging his is told clear all she needed to know. She flipped the lights. Settle the sirens howling paul. Casey was rice childhood friend. They both been runners in school in a bit of running together at least once a week for thirty years paul. A private investigator retired by bullet to the hip six months later. He lost his wife to cancer leaving him to raise their six year old daughter. Riots set up. An emergency dispatch trigger the farm tuned to a special channel on his scanner. Both at the station and the ambulance paul's voice over the scanner had been tight with alarm. Ride turned onto rural ranch road. Slow into accommodate the potholes that littered the dirt track. There's paul claire pointed to frantically waving figure standing between the farmhouse barn rice slowed the ambulance to a crawl guided next to the horse barn. He just shut off the engine when his door was yanked open and he was confronted by mud covered. Figure right. thank god it's amy. She's fallen down a well. Clear circle round the front of the ambulance. Stuffy within inches of paul to get its attention. Are you okay. She'd never seen him so distressed. Oh claire she's fallen down hole. I can hear but can't see her. His voice nearly broke news beginning to shake where paul show me where she followed him hall. Raghav rope shovel from the lower compartment at the ambulance. They were hundred feet behind the barma. Paul broke into a lumping run taking just ten steps in throwing himself face down onto the dirt where he crawled to what looked like a low spot. The ground paul cupped his hands around his mouth. Amy baby as daddy. He looked up. Clear is pleading without hesitation. Clar- flop down next to him shading arise an attempt to see down the whole amy. This is at clare. are you hurt. She turned her head to catch any sound. That might come out of the whole. The treadmills tones child's voice drifted to the surface at clare. I hear you amy. Your daddy is going to get you out. Clear rolled onto her back. Paul still looking down. The whole though hippie stared long enough he'd be able to see his daughter. How long has she been down there. Not sure maybe thirty minutes. I just don't know. He pushed himself up onto his knees. I saw her playing by the bar. When i came onto koetter for lunch she was gone. I nearly fell down the whole myself. I found her blanket by the edge. Ri- jaw dropping a rope climbing harness by the edge of the well luck. I paul than claire. Hell far down as she her to tell she must be pretty deep judgy for the sound of a voice. Claire said ri- separated would look like tent stakes with an i at the top from the harness. I need a hammer. Paul leapt to his feet limped the barn disappearing through large double front doors. Nearly next to where. Clara still lay on her back. I took her hand will get her out clear squeezed rice hand. I know we will ride began clearing sticks away from the opening. Careful not to knock any dirt into the whole. When paul return with the hammer claire around the ropes through the top of the stakes like thread through the eye of a needle spacing each state of all five feet from the next right pounded into the ground. Taking a double wrap around the last one with the rook. Who when he walked back to the edge of the whole claire was stepping into the harness. He took her arm. Are you ready for this. What with all the dreams and all. She pulled top of the harness up around her waist. Buckled it. i hope so. Besides you paul too big. This isn't going to work. Paul said holding up a clump of dirt in one hand. This is from the side of the whole if we try to slip over the edge it'll dump dirt onto amy maybe causing cave in you. Step back from the opening throwing the dirt to the ground with a curse. Claire stared at the opening of the whole. Suddenly spun. defaced paul. I need three four by force. No wait than turning to face. Ri- how strong or the tripods for the floods clear and ryan often share the same thought without saying a word. He understood immediately strong enough. Paul looked on puzzled by the exchange then walked over to clarice. Ri- ran back to the ambulance. What's he doing. We'll put a tripod over the whole lays rope down the middle isle simply step over the center of the whole and lower myself down. Ri- returned with a huge tripod. Legs were made of stout aluminum. The top solarge opening designed to hold the spotlight mounted on a post dropped into the reinforced hole at the top of the tripod. Let's set it up over here class stomping on a flat spot. See if it'll support. My weight rice separated the legs to their widest point. Drop the rope down the middle and luke a couple of times through the whole. The top of the tripod stood about five feet. Clear had to crawl between the legs. Then reach up and grab the rope pulling her knees to her chest to get her feet off the ground. There was audible groan as the feet of the tripod sank into the dirt right. Turn to paul great. Looks like it'll hold on the far side of the whole in all handed across as soon as she lowered herself to the ground. Ri- pulled rope from the top carried it to the whole paul grabbed. The legs of the tripod is ri- opened them up. Slugging them into the ground. Hold on. I've got an idea. Paul said he went to the barn retrieved three large construction bricks to brace against the legs. As paul. put the brooks in place right past the rope down through the top of the tripod so it hung over the middle of the whole. He reached out grabbed. It tied it off and through metal loops. Set into the front clair's harness. Paul wrapped an arm around one of the legs. Leaned over the whole amy. This is daddy at clara's coming down to get you. All three stopped what they were doing and listened nothing. Clear step to the edge of the whole ride reached across grabbed the back of harness. Paul grabbed the front which she pushed off. They slowly release their grip and let the tripod. Take the strain. They watched clear swing suspended. Only by the rope than rant were. The rope was lashed to the last of the five stakes together began to lower her into the whole. She desperately fumbled with her headlamp until she could hold her hand and see was on on her head. Drop below ground level. She could feel the air being sucked out of her lungs. Her knuckles were white from holding the rope. Too tightly than ahead appeared from a boat partially blocking out the light. Can you see her yet. Paul yelled clear. News question was silly was born of concern. She squeezed her eyes shut quickly tilted her heads so the lights shine down than opened her eyes. She couldn't see a thing not yet realizing she was yelling down the well. She closed arise. Rise in tilted. Her head up not yet. She repeated. They began to lower her again. She counted breath to stay focused suddenly. Her gradual progress stopped bouncing her to a sudden halt. She squeezed ri- shut. Each breath became audible now. She fought to stay calm the sound of her heart pounding in her ears. Claire was no longer an adult dangling at the end of a row. She was thirteen-year-old clarisse daughter of a mine inspector and the giant buildings capped off the star. Mine loomed ahead her hiding place. She had to make it to the mind. She kept pumping her arms faster and faster. She couldn't let them catch her. A volley of words drifted down the wealth from above. She opened her eyes and sugar head cleared past. She couldn't understand what was said but she picked up on the urgent tone. She tilt her head back and opened mouth to call out but the breath was driven from her lungs as she suddenly began to plummet. The rope had gone slack. That concludes chapter. Six shorter listened to chapter seven to find out if amy is rescued. And what happens to claire when the road goes slack. This kit crumb thanks for listening.

paul claire Claire medford ambulance service medford chessel county genucel county Rice Hello rice heart attack Cler Paul amy plaza cafe Chambas hanley farm jim webb paul claire
Libertarians for Tulsi Gabbard?

Remso Republic

44:05 min | 2 years ago

Libertarians for Tulsi Gabbard?

"Have you ever thought about starting your own podcast when I was trying to get this podcast off the ground? I had a lot of questions. How do I record episode? How do I get my show on apple podcasts? Spotify in all the other places people like to listen, how do I make money from my podcast the answer? Every one of these questions is really symbol anchor anchor is the one stop shop for courting hosting distributing your podcast and best of all it's one hundred percent free and ridiculously easy use. And now anchor match you with some great sponsors too. So you can get paid to host and actually go through with your podcast. The beautiful thing about this is as a content creator out wanna go ahead and worry about the business side of things all the time. I've done that for too long, and it took me away from creating anchor is liberating empowering that helping content creators like myself grow. So if you've always wanted to start a podcast make money doing it. Go anchor dot FM slash start to join me in the diverse community of podcasters already using anchor. That's anchored dot FM slash start. And I cannot wait to hear your podcast. Welcome to tonight's episode of the room. So Morzine is experience before we get started want to go ahead and give shots sums this episode's. Sponsors. From south publishing podcasting impassive income development. I offer ongoing self development courses at champion pundit academy as well as what else one private consultations to take you from zero the hero in no time. Learn more champions pundit, academy dot com. That's champion pundit academy dot com. You wanna know what you need more of in your life holiday picks? Yeah. Nobody ever said that. But if you've got gotta go ahead and spend money on the one nonfiction book. It's gotta be the ultimate clash of wisdom. Awesomeness? And then obviously the politics a little bit of comedy. Why? Now live a memoir, why not something that's going to make you say, hey, I actually enjoyed reading this. I laughed. I learned something in the process checkout. My book, it's an Amazon bestseller. You may have heard of it. It's stay away from the libertarians it talks about all the things you think you might know about libertarians. Plus a lot of things that I bet dollars doughnuts. You don't know about you can get on Amazon and Barnes and noble online. So go on right now, you can get in prince or e book or kindle, or whatever you call it. Just go out and get it on Amazon and Barnes and noble online today. It's stay away from the libertarians by. Renzo w Martinez affects of in me. We are getting the right into this twenty one a season. Well, back this is the rim. Some Martinez experienced. I'm your host as always Remm. So w Martinez. It's so great to have you. Here told you a few weeks ago, we probably would be covering much of the twenty twenty race but much like my addictions all things that are politics. We are back with another episode. This time we were talking about very very interesting coalition, which may be occurring within the Democratic Party. And libertarians sounds kinda strange haven't seen that for a while the last libertarian presidential candidate. We saw Democrats side only lasted one debate. And before that his name was Bobby Kennedy, and he was shot, by communists, before we go any further. Go ahead and do me a favor. Go ahead and follow me on Twitter at Remco four for now. F O R VA. That's remm. So for VA follow me, I'll follow you back that way. We'll keep going further with this discussion. Try and make. Waves where we can think and unconventional thoughts and improbable world talking about things change on a daily basis today. We were talking about the potential rise of a left wing star. I won't even know whether it really call her left-wing, I will call her progressive because I want to go ahead and make things seem like they, you know, aren't what they really are. Call her progressive because she is a progressive democrat. They're conservative Republicans. There are people on the right? I like their people on the left. I like as long as liberty is your focus. I'm okay fat and over the past year, specifically from two thousand sixteen onward the Democrats have been looking for that person to go ahead and go up against Donald Trump, and you know, the Democratic Party right now the field looks pretty pretty weak. Because when we really think about it. The Democrats didn't expect to be in the situation where they have losers and people if no name recognition and have no real contributions cloud or establish -ment bona fee. This. That can actually go up against it. Because we were supposed to be living in Hillary's America. So their opposition. But you know, is everything just socialism from here on out them crack party since it seems like the Clinton wing just destroyed and immolated itself and eight self alive. Maybe maybe not maybe there's a way we can go ahead and get involved. If you do not know Tulsi Gabbard is I I learned about her when she was proposing Bill such as the stop giving terrorist arms act with a mile, boss. Tom garrett. Go ahead and jump into this. I've got four articles. I want to go ahead. And you know, kinda read to you they so that way we could flush up time line of thought when it comes to the ideas of should libertarians put their support behind one candidate another specifically a democrat. That's something that hasn't really been discussed as of late. But the idea of should libertarians voted all should libertarians go for a Republican specifically that really came out in two thousand sixteen with two major camps. There's a third one. There was libertarians Ted Cruz. But that's the story don't really wanna talk about because it's not anything that was really that. Big of n- issue was a hot contentious problem for five minutes with people. I was of course, one of the libertarians supported Ted Cruz along of a series of other libertarian commentators of very small group of us. I'll admit, but it was primarily between ironically, Iran's Paul who obviously. And we don't need to get into that and said crews and you had Dr. Alter block me since fame and much more. He's written. God knows how many books he started. Libertarians for Trump specifically on the grounds of foreign policy, which he believed is the one policy field, which dictates everything else culturally fiscally. You name it everything hinges on foreign policy, and he was saying that Trump twenty sixteen was the dove candidate therefore libertarian should should should support him in the Republican primary and then make up their minds from there. The general. I'm making somewhat of the same assumption for this one. Why can't because I don't know if anyone's going to primary Donald Trump people are looking at governor Larry HOGAN, the Maryland, John casick of Ohio, Jeff flake. Now. But for our just focus on the Democrats, and you know, everyone amid grandmother who's a democrat is probably going to be running for president. But I think if you're libertarian Mamie she consider looking at tolsey Gabbard, maybe swinging her a few bucks and maybe doing a little bit of something. Who knows what am I saying anything for her? But before you do that, maybe you should get to know her a little bit and make that assumption yourself make that decision on your own accord. I'm not telling you to do anything. It's not an endorsement, it's just a thought experiment, and you could take it as you will first article. I'm reading is from reason magazine title is tolsey Gabbard running for president in twenty twenty. We're presentative cul see Gabbard democrat from Hawaii a veteran of the Iraq war and critic of America's interventionist foreign policy says she will run for president in twenty twenty with a message of peace, very anti Hillary. Few ask me the article continues CNN reports that Gabbard will announce plans to seek the White House on Saturdays edition of the van Jones show. A formal announcement for candidacy will it will follow in the coming weeks. Gabbard sudden comments released by CNN on Friday evening Gabbard says she will run on a platform that includes criminal Justice reform. Okay. Sidebar that's good climate change. No big fan of that. But she tells CNN America's ongoing wars will be central focus. Okay. Backing up behind there's one and this is a quote directly from her. There is one main issue that central to the rash. And that is the issue of war and peace Gabbard. So the court into CNN I look forward to being able to get into this and talk about it in depth. When we make our nouncement Gabbard has earned her right to be critical of those conflicts in two thousand four she volunteer for a twelve month tour of duty in Iraq while serving in the UAE army national guard leaving her seat as a state legislature as a state legislator to do. So she was deployed a second time to Kuwait in two thousand eight and you know, as someone I served in the military comes from military family. I have so much respect for somebody that was willing to leave and elected position. Like that to go serve our nation. So just on a personal level. I yeah, I love her for that. That's pretty awesome since censoring national politics. Two thousand twelve when she became the first Hindu elected to congress. She has been an outspoken critic the bipartisan consensus on foreign policy. She opposed the Obama administration administrations interventions in Syria as being part, and I quote against America's national security international credibility, economic interest in moral center, and quote has called for putting an end to the Afghanstan war. She puts this soon as possible. She's also reached across the aisle to do work with libertarian minded Republicans such as Senator rand Paul Representative Justin the mosh to nudge, America's foreign policy unless warmongering direction Gabbard cosponsored the house. Bill version of Paul's Bill the off firearm sales to Saudi Arabia and act Mahesh's amendment defend the national security agency over its warrantless surveillance program. She's also been critical for own party calling out Hillary Clinton's track record of supporting foreign wars during the twenty sixteen presidential primary Gabbard said secretary Clinton has a record and positions that will take us into a future that will include more intervention more interventionist wars of regime change Gabbard told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on March. Twenty sixteen Gabbard has already secured a veteran of Senator Bernie Sanders twenty sixteen campaign as her campaign manager. Okay. Splits pasta second. That's not looking good for Bernie. If you're Bernie, bro. And you're hoping Bernie will run because now she seems to be poaching. Bernie's people. Getting back to a Gabbard endorsed Sanders. 2016 after falling out of the Democratic National Committee over its handling of the primary and her opposition to Clinton's sworn policies. You mean, how the Democratic National Committee rigs the ins higher primary process to? Crown Queen Clinton. Yeah. Anyone that's still doesn't really recognize that problem with good. Very good for well. Her support for Sanders, economic message may turnoff libertarians were obvious reasons. It's difficult to imagine there being anyone in either major party who will be more critical of America's wasteful and seemingly endless post nine eleven wars. Her participation in the race will raise the profile of some important issues for which libertarians should be glad and has he she caps this article off with she's also got a chance to be a strong candidate. She's young and cool. She shirt, she surfs. She wants to end marijuana prohibition. And isn't afraid to be unorthodox on a non an unordered Bab. Sorry, saying this million times. Unorthodox nonpartisan voice. She will certainly stand out in a democratic field that figures to be crowded, and she's absolutely right in that. I want to say I'm excited for her. I still plan them, you know. You know, doing what I'm doing in terms of who's getting my vote in two thousand twenty. But I personally don't think she'll get far because of her non interventionist stance. And we've seen that anyone is against the war state and everything else seems, you know, get should out early because those dollar dollar bills y'all's don't usually go go in their way. When you say you wanna go up against the the powers that be. But. She could still be a net gain for libertarian valleys, especially since I don't, and you know, I might be wrong been wrong before about things. I still don't think that Trump's going to be primary, but you know, Trump's some good things bad things on this. But is tolsey Gabbard going to actually be pushing somewhat of a liberty message in that we've seen that she's gone the civilised shoes, and she's good on the foreign policy issue this article the continue with was actually written that being libertarian last April. And just so you remember, I'm just skimming through the articles of already read through them. So I'm just going through them again. I've abbreviate them. I'll go ahead include all the articles in the show notes, which will be able to go ahead and check out after this. This is run tolsey Ryan over at being libertarian Gabbard is an intriguing highly cares Matic person and the push for presidential run makes sense. I'm not a big supporter and will not gush about how great I think she is by do think she is a. Political reality in the landscape of certainly were and certainly worthy of lava discussion. Okay. I agree with that. Good stuff. I believe she is very likely the front runner for the Democrats twenty twenty. Okay, that no I think it's going to be Elizabeth Warren because Gabbard seems have some integrity, and I think warrants going to eat people alive. Covari well have a shot to win the presidency. Now like why? So there earlier can't go up against the War Powers that be folk. Sorry, ask him in a paragraph Gabbard holds a couple of ideas. I find to be quintessential libertarian social positions. She staged she states that she is personally opposed to gay marriage, but supports withdrawing the government for making such terminations. And this article was just written last, April L know why we're still talking about gay marriage. That's done issue. That hasn't been initi- since twenty fifteen so maybe Democrats will have a problem with that. Maybe but that's not really ballpark. Very knowledgeable in. Do do do do. Okay. They might not trust her. Because of what they've you as, you know, ambiguity when it comes to the gay marriage issue, especially when it comes to the abortionist. She says that she's personally pro-life, but she's pro choice legally through the narrow lands of liberal versus conservative. It's hard to place these positions off latte line. And we had them pro choice people and the Democratic Party have the same sort of struggle when most wanna appears position. So basically, Cecile Richards are busts. I think is going to be the big thing with her. That's why I also think that warns gone just eat her up in that case while libertarians understand these positions well based upon a two dimensional linear understanding of political positions. Gabbard is a missing figure on social positions for George Democrats skipping the paragraph there, she is anti war in the big picture being very vocal in opposition. To warn Syria and opposing continued US involvement in Afghanistan Iraq, but she also was openly opposed to a bomb in his deal with Iran. That's what tells me as a side note. That's what tells me. She's smart because she saw bast Ben Rhodes complete fictional echo chamber. And she post that which is shows that she has brain which was a very unfavorable position for Democrats to oppose their hero in I'll on much of anything. And while she opposes Warren. General she calls herself hawkish in strongly supports covert military action involving small forces in surgical tax, something many Democrats as the as distasteful operations within two with too many collateral causes. Well, what do they prefer bomb and drowns all out boots on the grounds Normandy style, whether they want, but yeah. But that's what they want. Continuing Gabbard is also deciding -ly anti an anti establishment figure. Within the party, she withdrew from being a party leader. In order to better support Bernie Sanders when all the other party leadership were plotting to override his bid for president in favor of Clinton. Ben opened the open position she has had on occasion. With Obama is a huge negative, not only to the majority of Democrats, especially to party leadership. Another reason why I mean, you're the Democrats have much of a much better control over their people than Republicans do even post twenty sixteen when many of the Bernie broS of seeing past all that while being overall anti-establishment can be positive for her mum common. Everyday democrats. It can be a hindrance if party leadership does to her what they did the Sanders. I think now since a lot of that stuff is in the open. I still think they'll pull their thirty tricks by think you'll be maybe as slimy last time. I mean, they're always slimy bound think you'll be as open and apparent that. They're literally cheating last time. I also don't think that the Democratic Party actually thinks they're going to be Trump a member I'll put smart money on that. But, you know, things have happened her large support of entitlement programs. Also overrides a lot of other policy positions for majority of Democrats for many in the party support for things like universal, healthcare and shoring up Medicare, Medicaid or more important than social or foreign policy. Entitlement programs are very big deal in the party. Lastly, there's always a sense meme, Democrats and Republicans alike that there can't should always represent moderate positions to make them more palatable for centrists, assuming that support from their party members automatic in that independent voters the ones who elect presidents. Just now I don't believe in independent voters. All I've leave some people call themselves in the pendant, whoever you historically vote for the most as you're probably always going historically vote for I'm not saying that for every independent there. Every voter just saying, you know, I think we kind of over over rate this in the pendant swing. Tolsey Gabbard meets with a perception that she is a political moderate and therefore very desirable candidate too, many Democrats overall, I think Gabbard is very is a very likely presidential candidate twenty twenty good job author of this article. You're absolutely right about that. I didn't even think so, but you were right kudos overall current sentiment and political mood in the US strongly favor, sir. I agree with that. Now who does this sound like if you have a memory of more than five years as a sound like this a lot like former democrat Senator from Virginia Jim Webb who was also an anti interventionist. Moderate cool guy got along with everybody who Just's didn't get it going. And I think we really need to understand why Jim Webb failed because he is him until see Gabbard are very close on a lot of these things, including just personality when it comes to how they interact in the partisan world of the swamp. This is from New York magazine their sections for the intelligence or why Jim Webb was doomed. This is written way back when during the democratic primary surround twenty fifteen air, and I'm reading now if someone were to assemble a highlight reel of Jim Webb's time as a democrat candidate for president. It would be pretty short outside of that democratic debate last week. They're talking about the one in only democratic debate in which Jim Webb actually participated continuing his press conference Tuesday announcing he was dropping out of the race was probably his most widely covered event. Even then the expectations were set low the National Press Club, which announced it would be hosting web. For an important statement about his presidential campaign at one PM provided a room with only thirty six chairs twice as many reporters show showed up at the appointed hour web came into the pressroom his wife hung Lee sat next to him and took an extremely wide stance behind the podium. So that his feet poked out from either side of it. He gestured to the frame framed wooden peg some aides held up behind. Him skipping. A paragraph web turn grip the lectern some say, I am a Republican who became a democrat. But that I often sound like a Republican in a room full of Democrats are democrat in a room full of Republicans. Actually, I take a compliment. That's my best. Jim Webb impression. Webb said. More people in this country. Call themselves political independence rather than Republican or democrat. This was of course, one of Webb's problems. Nobody seemed to know what he stood for only that he did indeed sound like a Republican in the room full of Democrats. But it wasn't his biggest Jim web's. Biggest problem is that he wasn't heard period in that isn't as a problem almost entirely of his own making over the year that he ran for president. He barely raised any money. He didn't build the kind of campaign infrastructure necessary to compete, and maybe most glaringly he didn't seem to be doing and campaigning. As a consequence he failed to register at one percent and polling averages and the debate last week web came off as a Petula as Petula and entitled using his limited airtime to complain about not being given more chance to speak. Americans are disgusted by all. This talk of Democrats and Republicans calling each other the enemy instead of reaching across the table Webb said to Jim Webb voice. Sorry, I know one enemy really. He is from hard personal combat. The other party is not the enemy. They're the opposition in our democracy. We're lucky to have opposition. There's no opposition party in countries like China, he had a point one a lot of Americans would probably agree with which makes us failure to do anything to get message out there all the more confounding in the campaign that has so far been defined by outsider. Politicians breaking the rules and getting all the love for it. There could be an opening for Jim Webb, but that would require a certain flexibility and creativity about how to get his message out that web clearly did not have. And I'm gonna go ahead, and stopping our article in that I mean things to consider one they were never going to give Jim Webb a chance because it was Hilary's election. There is no Hillary in this race. Secondly, though, the thing to consider is that those descriptions independent minded veteran. The other side is not the enemy. They're the opposite. Mission we need work across the aisle. Gabbard the only one that sounds like this in this entire field of declared candidates and speculative candidates at the time, I'm recording this Julian Castro just came in and he's going to call everybody south of him Satan. So just something to consider. There is no Hillary in this race. So she has more of a chance, but the fact that she's not as extreme as the others is going to kinda hurt her. So what should libertarians to about this? I think we have a chance as I mentioned earlier a net gain. She's with us enough, and she might not be a libertarian, but she certainly anti progressive as we've seen in the Trump era, sometimes being anti-big recive is enough to at least get libertarians hawking points out when we have the breathing space to actually make good on it. This is called what my friend Robin Kerner described as the blue Republican. Strategy and he devised this around twenty eleven to try and get Democrats to support Ron Paul in the primaries, not necessarily in general, but at least in the primaries, and there's a tactic I of used in the past for primaries and for independent candidates and libertarian Kant's staff to managed during my time as a consultant. So let's go ahead and look at Robin Kernersville blue Republican strategy, and how was when he wrote the initial blue Republican article. I mean, this thing went viral at the Huffington Post back in two thousand eleven. The world lost its goodwill toward the US. When Americans voted for George W Bush, the second time around I don't endorse the idea that American politics should be dictated by foreign opinions when he wrote when Robin wrote this he was still a Brit now he's in American citizen, kissy smart. Continue. But a reading of before and press over the last six years reveals that the first election of President, George George Bush junior was largely excused around the world since no one could have known what this new president was going to do moreover America, arguably didn't vote for him anyway in two thousand however, the second election of President Bush was not excused because by two thousand four the modus operandi of the Bush administration was clear he wanted to one conduct wars against countries that did not threaten us Iraq to oversee large financial benefits to companies which with which those and his administration were close to Dick Cheney and Halliburton establish a legal framework for writing over the liberties of private individuals who are not suspected of crime the Patriot Act and for establish a massive federal apparatus to carry out such intrusions on innocent Americans in what is becoming the police state domestic wiretapping. TSA cetera. So just right there. He setting the stage for win this was taking place, and you can try, and if you don't like Trump, maybe you can try and pull some of your own examples together, but I'll let you do that. I'm continuing the more or less global delight upon Obama's election. Two thousand eight followed largely from the hope Americans had realized with mistake they made with Bush's second term and were therefore voting against the agreed GIS actions of the then Republican establishment the same can be said for Trump in two thousand sixteen voting against the stablishment of both parties continuing when most Americans voted for hope and change the above four objectives were at the top of their list of what they hoped would be changed after two years. However, we now see though bomb conducts wars against countries that do not threaten us, Libyan Yemen. Overseas large financial benefits to companies to which those in his administration close to Goldman Sachs. Three supports the legal framework for writing rough. Over the liberties of private individuals who are not suspected of crime the Patriot Act and for is growing massive federal apparatus to carry out such intrusions on innocent Americans was becoming the police state. Put another way when it comes to such things as the killing of innocent people taking from the common man's support cronies, and the elimination of basic values that make our lives worth living. We have the hope, but we haven't change. Gonna go ahead and skip a paragraph here. I don't believe that such justifications exists. And he's talking about the rationale people used to justify most those actions from both Republican democrat ministrations, I am having difficulty. Seeing how democrat who voted for Obama whom I supported for the right reasons in two thousand eight cannon good conscience, do so again, given that there is another candidate who has been consistent in his opposition of all those things not just in words, but in deeds if you've ever read my other pieces, you already know who he is. But if not you should also know that Ron Paul blessed be as name that that part. Sorry has voted to let the states make their own laws on the Boertien gay marriage excetera and let individuals follow their own social conscious, even when he disagrees with them. In other words, he is consistent with his beliefs and civil liberty. If you're a democrat and you sit site and vote for. Vote democrat again because you've always been a democrat or because you think some group in which you identify with will benefit more from democrat programs. Republican won the mad is up to you. And I wish you well. But don't you dare pretend that you were motivated primarily by peaceful rights or government that treats people equally that Ron Paul who has been standing up for these principles quietly for half a lifetime happens to be a member of the Republican party, and is a lot less, and that's a lot less important than the principles that we should be voting on the fact that he is not a party guy should be obvious from his extensive difference in policy from his party. And the fact that many think given his views he should not run as a Republican at all I'm skipping another paragraph. Now, I know that the Republican party stinks too, many Democrats independents who care about social Justice and civil rights, but we all need to be smart and play the system to get the political outcomes we seek you don't have to like the party or even identify with it to sign up. Republican for year to make sure that the Republican primaries are one by the one Representative who's always been for peace has always voted against bailouts and has always opposed the reach of government into your bedroom and your relationship in your person and for the record. I was a member of the libertarian party from time. I could vote until twenty fifteen and I voted for Senator Ted Cruz in the Republican primary. I went as an independent libertarian at that point leaving the libertarian party to go work for Tom Garrett, and for at least term, we gave the fifth district of Virginia and the country one of knowledge see Gabbard, grace allies, but one of the most liberty minded Republicans in the country. So I'm proof that the strategy works in one way, shape or form continuing. And if you're a democrat or socially progressive, independent, you can't tell me warrant hoping for all of that from Obama, perhaps you see too much small-mindedness or means spirit or religious craziness and the Republican party. Sure you do. You can find all of them in spades. But since you can't change the democrat ticket for twenty twelve why not act where you can make a positive change. This is the important part, folks. Think about this. Okay. By telling the Republican party where you really want it to go in the direction of peace and liberty both of which if you just go back a little way can be found in that you dishes of republicanism skipping. Another paragraph. Ron Paul's electoral weakness is not a difficulty in winning presidential election. It is in winning primary and party with a conservative constituency. That includes the religious right Neo cons an influx of peace and freedom loving independence. Democrats would change the math on the Republican side and potentially the future of America by setting up a presidential contest with a pro-peace pro civil rights candidate who could outflank Obama on those issues at least from the left again. This is not an endorsement of the Republican party or claim that the Republican record is better than any than the democrat on. Any issue discussed in this article? It isn't it is not even a statement, the Dr Paul some kind of. Strange albatross of American politics, rather, it is to recognize simply that the one potential presidential candidate who wishes to stop killing innocent people in foreign wars and stop transferring wealth of the wealth from the port and working Americans. Corpora -letes happens to be this time around a Republican. Also is to recognize that any other political choice is for status quo in which all the issues that really matter war pieces of rights are settled for the military industrial complex and the interests of the state over the individual. So what will it be same old team allegiance or new blue Republicans in this case, I'm saying for libertarian specifically, especially a libertarian party members? I mean, really what why why do you have to lose? All why not have a blue libertarian strategy. That's where I'm getting out of this. What I I mean if he just listened to that? I mean the times of change some of the issues of change. But a lot of that war peace cronyism civil liberties, an outsider, she might be not calling her on Paul. But she might be this elections. Ron Paul in the situation. Maybe because you can do what everyone the general. But maybe it'd be better to change the narrative in the conversation with a blue libertarian strategy now kind of wrap things up. What are we going to see bigly when it comes to progressive opposition? Because it's already coming out go on Twitter and look at anything coming from people attacking Tulsi, Gabbard belief or not is primarily progressives. Extreme progressives. This articles coming from the Jackson magazine dot com, so Jakobsen MAG dot com. It's a open socialist magazine. But it's good under. Dan, how the other side thinks they wrote an article titled tolsey Gabbard. Way. That's not it. Let's see what the whole thing was one second. Okay. Yeah. This is this is the the Jackson article is titled tolsey Gabbard is not your friend, and it's a long long article. So highly suggest you read it because I'm only gonna go through enough. And let's go ahead and get started during her twenty twelve house campaign. She ran ads complaining, endless war. She is called for the pulling out of Afghanistan, the longest war on US history. Suggesting that the government invest the money instead and rebuilding our own nation through long-term infrastructure projects. She's opposed intervention serious and twenty thirteen airstrikes in Iraq arm sales Saudi Arabia. She back Sanders democrat primary because of Clinton's record of supporting interventionist regime change. All this created the impression that Gabbard. Unlike much of the Democratic Party is anti war. She's not and what they do is they go ahead, and they basically try and gather on being supposedly aunts high Islam because she is she's anti jihad think about it. She's hindu. Look look at what's going on between India and Pakistan, and how Muslims if you saw that film some dog millionaire who are extremely religious zealots. We'll go after Hindus we should probably see that coming especially when we see what's happened with organizations like ISIS. They go out, and they basically start tacking her as, you know, conservative lackey because Breitbart wrote many nice articles because Allen west former congressman island Westbank nice about her because she's gotten along. So well with Republicans it's a pretty weak article. In fact, what they try and do is they try and tie her to white supremacism one point they say Gabbard brand of anti interventionism has even been praised by former KKK grand wizard. David Duke who calls for her to be named secretary of state. They're trying to reach for anything and everything they possibly can to take her out. You should go read the article, it's incredibly long I disagree with a lot of it. But this is how they're going to think. And this is what they're going to do. They're going to try and find everything they possibly can to go after. And they mentioned the abortion thing in the gay marriage thing as well. Not that that's going to be an issue. I mean, of course, you know, Boertien will be an issue, but the. Marriage thing is not an issue, but they're going to use that as a way to try and discredit her. My thing is this do I want tolsey Gabbard to be president. Not really I kinda like what we're getting right now. And you might disagree with me. But I do think what we can agree on this, especially as libertarians. Whether you're a libertarian the Republican party big l libertarian or an independent libertarian. I think a blue libertarian strategy is what we need to push for whether it lasts a few months of the whole time going up until the convention or not what we need to understand is this what we have is an opportunity to push the narrative in our direction. We don't lose from that. What you see whenever someone else becomes president? Is that libertarians loose some libertarian skein some same goes wrong drag, and he was not a perfectly battalion either when the head and deregulated a lot a spouse allow libertarian virtue. But what did we get? We got a lot of out of control deficit spending. Thing that happens constantly, no government agency was actually abolished or downside downsized. I mean at the office personal management under Daniel Devine. They did limit. They bring down the federal workforce. But then you look at things like the assault rifle ban. And we consider Reagan to be perfect. Here's the thing. We're never going to get perfect. It's just not going to happen. But we can push further. I think we're better now than what we will have gotten anything. I mean, can you imagine I support at Ted Cruz? I don't imagine. Ted Cruz calling out NATO calling out other leaders meeting of North Korea doing half the things that Trump did. I don't I've never supported rand Paul. In terms of you know, when he ran for president. But could you imagine Rampal doing in the fat? No. Because at the end of the day, your member rand Paul much like every other politician, still try taking the Amtrak train from Washington over the Wall Street to try and get some money from the bankers. They all do Jabr. It's probably going to do that. I'm not painting out to be a same. I can sell you that miss. I hate the banks. Elizabeth Warren might be doing that sue and remember a big war big union. Like what we saw Bernie Sanders big union is no different than a big Bank. Or what have you because they're still taking money one way or another, and they could be as just of a big deciding factor in terms of the financial aspects of a race as anything else. I mean, look look at the money that Sanders Scott from the unions and twenty sixteen it was pretty insane. It matched out of what Hillary was getting in terms of her Wall Street aid from Goldman Sachs in the like. Tolsey gabbard. I don't want. I don't think she's going to get the democratic nomination. But I can tell you that I do plan when the democratic primary comes around here in Virginia. If she stays in that long, assuming she stays in that long if she does she will be getting my vote because she gets she is a net worth for liberty. She's pushing against the Republican establishment. She's pushing against the democratic establishment much like Walter blocks reasons for libertarians for Trump. I do believe that foreign policies the big issue not just for the lives and the morality of it. Also, the fact that you could bring this up to your publican friends were broke us this argument where twenty trillion and the whole how much spending do we put in foreign aid and bombs and everything else. Why I mean, how can we spend more money that we don't have? She is going to bring that discussion to the table. I don't think Trump is going to be challenged. If he is challenged. I doubt foreign policies going to be one of those. Issues. But I think libertarians if we try our let's call it the blue libertarian strategy. I think we can get at least the civil liberties aspects of the foreign policy aspect advanced in a way, which will probably exceed that of what we saw twenty sixteen since it was really at the day. It was always going to be a Jeb versus Clinton election, obviously things worked out differently. But a lot of important topics to libertarians fell wayside for that. So what do you have to lose and go ahead? And if you go to anchor FM, and you go the my show channel, you can drop me a message leave me a message. Tell me if you think I'm right? Tell me if you think I'm wrong. Are you a democrat who are you supporting or you Republican or you're gonna try this blue libertarian strategy that the blue Republican himself, Robin Kerner tried in two thousand twelve didn't work van? But what if it works? Now. What do we have to lose when freedom is on the? Line. Go ahead and find me on Twitter at Remco, four VA Instagram. So the number four VA, and let me tell you folks, I keep jumping on this. But I think. Even if you think I'm looney, even if you think of lost it with this. I think tolsey Gabbard is someone that you need to pay attention to. It's just a gut feeling. What if it turns out to be nothing you lost nothing? This was a good thought experiment. But what if what if something good comes out of it? What if she gets the nomination, wouldn't that be crazy if she debates Trump on this, and then Trump will obviously beat her because he's been campaigning since the day after the twice Ecksteen election. He'll he'll beat anybody. But he'll beat her. What if she pushed him in the way that forces him to take a more libertarian stance on things? These see what I'm getting at DC where I'm getting at. What do we have to lose vote for her in the primary than vote? However, you want in general, but this might be the chance to make a statement. This might be the chance to make a point this might be the chance that we might not ever get again who knows the aliens become down next month. Could be invaded by China and turn into film, red dawn. I don't know I like to think, and I like to do and I like to get these opportunities talk with you. Go ahead and find everything else that we're discussing old episodes the articles over McCollum and magazine violet back journalism game again, folks, part time basis and my own website arms of Martinez dot com. I'm w Martinez. This is the room. So Martinez experience. I will talk next time folks, take care.

tolsey Gabbard Donald Trump rand Paul president Democratic Party Bernie Sanders Hillary Clinton America Iraq Senator Ted Cruz Twitter Jim Webb Republican party Elizabeth Warren US Virginia Crown Queen Clinton Obama
Becoming the world's strongest woman with Donna Moore

Biceps & Banter

43:01 min | 2 years ago

Becoming the world's strongest woman with Donna Moore

"Hello. I'm Laura I k- biceps personal trainer and soon to be published author of lift yourself out, July twenty fifth. I believe that discovering health and fitness and weight lifting in particular has the power to change your life. It did mine. I found the power of fifteen whites completely transformed my own personal body image from wanting thi- gap. It's a feeling proud of my strong enough. Let's figure after years of crazy diets and not feeling good enough. I finally felt physically successful, and I can't begin to describe, how empowering is to pick up something, you didn't think you could that feeling of ambition will transfer in your daily life. And we'll have the habit of making you feel that you can achieve whatever you set your mind to, if you put in the work and have enough patience to see out the process, ultimately, I believe that strength doesn't come from what you can do. It comes from overcoming the things you. Once thought you couldn't, I'll be exploring this idea every week, celebrating extraordinary, men and women who shed their stories of resilience lifting others and the challenges. They faced along the way, welcome to biceps. And banter, I'm super excited to be partnering with fit bit for this series. I'm officially obsessed with my fit bit from trekking my sleep quality every night to monitoring my f- in workouts, and general low intensity activity throughout the day. A genuinely loved the brand for me. Having awareness of this kind of health data really does help me to lead a healthier, more active life, which is very important to me. I have found that using my Fitbit watched and having app on my phone can help give you the motivations track your movement and supports you in pursuing a more balanced and healthy lifestyle. And remember, if you're not assessing the just guessing. Welcome to biceps and banter Donaghmore. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for coming on. We are actually today. We've just escaped from body power, and as I arrived, I saw crowds, cues, surrounding people trying to meet you. How was that was pretty good? I enjoy me everybody and nice people to ask questions about what's happening. What you do next. You know, nice to meet the public, I was a little bit nervous, coming to me because of watched your your journey for years, and as a as a young weedy whippersnapper in the novice firm land, you represent so much inspiration for me. But many of my peers in the industry, but not just because of your performance. But you as, as a person as well, and I think, speak on behalf of people that you, you, you kind of act so much integrity and so humble and it's been. Amazing what you compete. So you crown the world's strongest woman, two thousand six thousand six and two thousand seventeen and then the Arnold pro Yup. Loss year. So that's your biggest sort of feats today in terms of your achievement but you didn't stop at long ago. Did you? Two thousand twelve yeah. Yes. So this, this makes me feel a little bit better in that actually, if you do put your mind to it, you could achieve great things that she a relatively short space of time. I feel like a short time does it all the time. It's only when think twenty twelve wasn't that long ago. But sometimes it feels a lot longer than that say, tell me. So tell me where you in, in twenty twelve made you decide that you wanted star. I just been going to a gym classes out sleeve body pump. Combat just things like that because they didn't actually want to go into a gym a toll. I would have no idea what I was doing. So that's where my journey kind of started out on just a bit more confident with while I was doing at going to other gyms and Maloka Larrea, one of the guys that directed me to a bit more so strong money. Powerlifting. Jim Webb rhythms a bit more not kind of commercial. Jim base will just call them just like that. And he gave gave me some training on all the big compound, lifts and through the magic of social media, a lady must to some lifts and lady invited me to strong women competition in airlift in Scotland. At the time that was not really see started doing body pump. Yep. Great. I would love when you first started what first attracted you to of body pump versus a normal cardiac castle cycling. Well, did go to body attack while I really enjoyed enjoyed that it was just I didn't want to go to the gym, and an actual fact it was because I was really large. Like wait. Really Mudgee p it said new outfit, a lot better. If I just lost weight healthy rarely okay mo- from a state of mind just well than anything else. You know, sometimes in those classes, builds community, the same late that on where I was, I was lucky that there was a little crush. So my kids go in the crashes for like the hour. And think something that needs to be approaching lots of places. It was. Doing the before someone that person found g probably quite a while. And then it did step away from it. And just went to the gym, when I start to know I was doing, and then just occasionally went to a class, maybe a bit of spinning ever. Yeah. I just didn't enjoy doing my own workouts. Really? And I don't really know. It would have been quite a quite a lengthy periods quite a few years. Probably five. Yeah. I think I think is the gym environment especially for women of the feedback. I get is really intimidating. Yeah. And I just didn't have any conference where awards in my life out that point either. So I didn't want to put myself in that situation as well as, as well as trying to figure out what was supposed to do with all these machines. Yeah, absolutely. So did you set yourself a plan of? So you've been to see GP. Whatever is you're not right. I'm gonna I'm going to change something. Did you say is the plan of how many times you would go? No. I think it just went straight away just to see how like it. And then I was always active. When I was younger had horses to ride my bike to my horse sw. Women of John another interviews by. Used to be pretty good at it. But my, my dad wanted me to go to swimming lessons, and take it further and go swimming club. And I was I was having none of it. So I've always swimming have done and it's probably something that I should have pursued at the time. But when you're younger, you just say, no tench ride my pony kind of things. The same for me where I was when I was a young person being active and riding horses writing bike outside all the time, and that put me just dispute so we're not sure active again, I think my mind was thankful for the that I decided to do that. Much better straightaway. So by participating this group fitness, whatever it was found this community. Someone's found you starts. Learn a little bit more how to live your, and then it sort of went from there, basically. Yeah. So I done this competition in two thousand twelve. Was it was an international kind of competition, she'd invited people from all over, and they will bacon kind of scary, but they will of Lee and supportive. And then there wasn't really that much social media. Like is now. So how to look at them on YouTube, right? And I remember looking at one of them in particular my goodness, earth about going to the other, the other women. Right. So I just knew that I wanted to do another one after finished office. The events were, it was a strange competition, because everything was max. Okay, fine. So it was even it was a much yoke. But when you're just starting out a distant. Yeah, and you could have as many as you want. But if you don't know you just going to, because he never even had a real to dry on you're going to have to take everything the guy that was the, the MC day, and even just a couple of days ago on Facebook, he said, I think you'd want five hundred miles. We've. Day because it didn't know what was doing. He had the same with the farmers. The maximum these ladies new, maybe they could do one hundred kilo hundred. Well, I don't know how much you can do. So let's take every single wait that came along. So it was a very toxin day. See volume on you first. It was a lot and the dead lift was again, it was a mock silver dollar debt left in think, at the time I want my PB was, I think admonish to pull one sixty days that was that was quite good. A one the one, I'm Dumbo president. So that was quite nice. Jim the recipe it's the silver dollar deadly had. You even had a chance. I'd print show today, the embody pump. So I had the gym that I was out. We didn't really doing what it was to be fair. So you just develop the strength to, I'm going to try this competition and you just went for it. I think it's possibly because I would be competitive anyway, I like to push myself, but was when I was younger would be like an active in competitive, and doing things, but that person got lost somewhere win of combat to lifting. And this kind of community than a found found that again. Can you dentist is when you when you lost that? Probably made a few bad relationship decisions. I would imagine just wasn't happy and having when you you're as young as well. So having two young kids when you're not by yourself. It's, it's difficult. Didn't live anywhere near my family. I was away. So it was it was difficult than to so you found your, your Mojo back say started your first call. You've done it. So what will happen next and didn't really do much just carried on going to the gym, and I moved from where I lived in Scotland back to Yorkshire, which that's family. So there was a few other competitions more accessible. I can't really remember then after that was the Midland's and stuff, it just, you know, other competitions along the way to where I am. So now. Well, it's amazing. So I guess, brings me to, to, to ask around the definition of a strong woman to me and sat here in front of you is so much greater than what you can lift. So, so what's your I think? Probably other things as well as about being a strong person, just in life in general. You know, really? Do anything to my full of potential light to be strong and show. Good example, my kids, that you can achieve if there's something that you want you kind of go out in there and get it, but you just have to achieve work in might take an awfully long time. But, you know, if you keep going about one thing, you might be something, and you twenty that you wanted to do, but you don't ever get to do it until you're sixty time just doesn't always allow for at the time that it's doing, I'm just fortunate that my mice of everything has come together now but it's not hasn't just come together by flu. That's because you've you've you've decided to do it. A lot of women out there. I think can relate that, you know, especially with with kids and jobs that if they're in a position where they don't feel a confident they, it's really difficult. Intimidating blow to the to the gym and this in a rut. So what, what do they, what do they do? How do they find the time because you, you found it you just have to make it and it's a choice. And I think that's what people. Hard to hear things sometimes, but just don't have time. What you do you just have to decide what you're going to prioritize what you do in competing. Strong woman is is high on my priority list. So therefore, make time for it, but even before when just was exercising because a warrant to lose weight, and I did feel so much better. Just my wellbeing was so much better that may time to get that feeling. Yeah. Absolutely. I feel like it's, it's even more than just losing weight. It's, it's, it's participating in something that makes you feel a certain way. I'm however, you'll body looks as a as a result is kind of, but by the by the wayside this happens because you happier I believe. So as you saw started training physically, you must have you must have gone through a bit of evolution. How, how is that being? We are supposed to. However, if you look back at pitcher so when I started going to the gym and mckee's young, I was like I was just baking overweight, and then a made a conscious decision that, yes, we're going to go to the gym and get. Another a lot difference in pitches in space year, it's. Even to me looking back at it. Now, cranky thought was a lot. And then oversee the volition, if the way the way that it is, now is have slowly like bigger really building muscle mass. Yes is. Yeah. And have changed shape. Bam in have been lifted continuously heavyweights for a very long time. The different ways of training I trained to be strong, specifically for that reason. So the way that I look is direct reflection on an e conscious of atole is common to icon. I can't be ready self-conscious, my boyfriend can have, you know, quite a lot of issues about trying to go, you know, go out if I was going to go to a party or something like that trying to find something to where because why across the top, but not necessarily as why around the bottom so of things. So things difficult to have. Then people do pass Carmen people can be mean not very nice. Always on social media. You know you just have to rise above it. And you know, I'm pleased with what I've accomplished for my own self. So what they think about how big mobile apps, are you crack on with how big you think you by my biceps, because they said the pep is for me the not seven your purpose, because yours is not the same as mine. I absolutely. Enough that nothing. That's not just physical strength that strength of you'll, you'll mind says, well, because you're so focused on right for you. The will anyone else thinks, you know is completely relevance, how to you. One of the biggest questions I get asked is how I stay motivated to be active beyond my day job as a trainer I need to ensure I'm moving enough. And also, I have had particularly active day a need to ensure I'm feeling my body enough to perform icon talk enough about the benefits of managing your sleep, and the quality of it going from a stressful or high energy job, to having to wind down and get an early night can sometimes be a challenge. And it definitely affects how I feel and how much energy I have the next day my fit bit helps me to track the various sleep stages. I'm in from light sleet, too, deep sleep, right through to Ren said, I haven't managed to get a solid seven eight hours. I need to be a web on might not be on top foam for the next day by trucking my personal stats through features like heart rate, monitoring, active minutes over the day, as well as my sleep data. I have a much better understanding of my own. Overall health. It's really hard year, especially with social media. You could have so much support, or, and that one comment, you're Congess hit you thirds away, and it can take you back to that other place that you were at your and you've worked so hard can can definitely think of the Star Wars. The one comment would have affected me the most even if someone had said yet, but this five hundred comments say, oh, that's fantastic. But it would be the one that said owner like this or women shouldn't do all know something else like derogatory, that would be the one that would stick. It's taking me an office of older. It's you perspective on things just change when he got older. So you're able to put it to one side and leave them with small minded main mentality. Yeah. I love that. So you, you, I, I think I feel you have such high stunned. It's for yourself. And you worked so hard to get it do. Sometimes sent you are a little bit hard on yourself. Definitely than. The people listening to what we're talking about four when we walk in. But you know about my I didn't win the competition the last year. Well, the pro the honored was earlier this year, and then we'll strongest women was December. So they were really kind of close. So, yeah, the strongest woman in December. Yeah. Was very hard on myself on anybody came into contact with trying to be encouraging. For the listeners benefit. Don't talking about this on the walk up that she had had a hissy fit for quite some time. So can you can you share what the guys what was the what was the event? Talk talk me through that competition. Well knew that it was going to be very tight competition. The competition at the top I now is is, is very tight. Everyone's really high standards. It's a great. That's what we want. That's what we want, and everything was kind of going at the thought it was going to, you know, don't have the biggest press on, don't have the biggest left two and a one particular event that train the most folks, I thought it would have the most difficulties yoke carrying a certain distance. And then you have to run back and collect hundred Kayla. Somebody will take on the two hundred seventy two kilos six hundred pound for I think it was twenty two can do. I'm Ben runback twenty meters, and get you some bag. So the wouldn't always be the best part for me. So I knew that would have to make up time on the somebody gonna spent so much time with my coaches practicing picking up some and even in the wom- Sniffen. It's perfect. Right. This is this is great. This is going to be okay. The did the partner when is it one of sprinting about to get the somebody, I was this is great, and then you're in the late at this point. No. Well, I do 'cause you do two lanes so pretty fast. It was his best as you could have done. Yes. Yeah. We were both at somebody, I caught up with to get somebody on the technique. Dodgers to pick it up. Just didn't get it. Right. Just didn't get it. Right. And the nine to the parent to like, do something else, merger derby, and do the best poster overnight and made me come something like fifth in the event, and it's to fall cannot be. So again, let me say competition at the top is tight. So there was an appoint divide in one two three. So we shed a point between the three of the madness. Yeah, I get I guess we, we all very hard for an for a number of things. And from from my perspective, which is sort of, on the on this very low end of, of just the, the sport that you have been a guiding light in would say for so long to just make one mistake into come sit. It's just absolutely incredible. But, you know, I appreciate we all tough on the self for these things. And all the rest of the events were strong for you. They were they were much much as they're all kind of stunned. It really like I say, I'm not the biggest price, I don't have the biggest debt lift. I tried to be considering those knit or it's not bad. It's not bad cross the across the board. And that's why I would. That's how it usually works out for me. Because all right. Most things you know. So if you were to create your all the events that really suit, you what, what would it be? I'm not sure whether it's say they suit me, but the most things I find the most yen, we'll go with the most phone. I think. I love I love a triple plane pope, something that looks really. Must be one of a handful of people have ever done that the whole it's such a great thing. Look to get the opportunities wrote pool or horse. Yeah. Honest rape in Norway in the rain. Yes, Opole do you like about your? You said keg toss yet stones. So it was that was that world record with it was the without techy. So for listeners that might not necessarily know what tacky is that something you apply to an essentially a enhance your Greg, because there's such a round stones, so it's hard. And also, it can be quite toxin on, you know, your per she biceps, it come into being biceps of it helps with the white that you one hundred forty seven healers for five so is with Murtaugh if, if anyone at this point is, is inspired as I am. You must Google it because it is the video of Donna doing it is absolutely amazing yours, and your coach Jenny's screaming. Spend time doing that. But that's a great partnership. So how long have you train agenda a while? Now, yet one of Jenny 'em. It was it was a competition that we both compete on with. I didn't even know she was from the northeast of England like me, and I didn't really like it when she didn't really like me to. Really with each other. I am until we went to another competition in Scotland. And she'd contact me saying you wanna share someone to stay kind of pricey. So I did share with her mum and stuff when, when we went in them, we've been so a friends from there. So be working with Jenny. Remember he is. Yep. I guess, over this time, and we talk about the community within strong women, you must have seen the popularity of the sport evolves. So much so much. I'm so pleased is so fun, unim- powering. You know, everybody wants to compete, but you don't always have to this is acceptable everywhere now on with the weight categories if you do compete successful for everyone to do. That's a big thing. So if someone was sinking or I, I'm, I'm not liking what you're saying, but I just don't think come anywhere near where you're at what vice would you give to someone to start out? I don't think you should think about anything to do with where I am just thinking where they are. And then go in lift the weights, the pickup to them going to have a try because you don't really know that I have competition at every single week that came along, because it didn't know what was going to do any still had to make as many points as possible. So that's why did we like ten runs with the with seven runs with the farmers ever want to do that now but you know because because it didn't know so you have to test yourself. And then I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to be on us, I think most people would surprise themselves, if they tried. Yeah, I think so. I think people should feel confident enough to take upon themselves to go where am I now, what could my first that be described yours? Body, pump body attack in a in a local. Jim and kind of just see where it takes you so, yeah, get friend, a pound and find something you feel comfortable doing it think it's just making making the people want to change. But the have to make the choice to change yet. So where do you see the sport of strong woman, strowman going because you've got things like so we'll see powerlifting is very different. And you've got the rise of like cross fit over over the last is, and even just standing in, in body power. I'm stood in between so of across fit com. Stroman comp every everything sort of merging into to one. What are your thoughts on crossfire as, as a sport? I think is great. It's been quite a lot of time watching crossville. I find them quite inspiring, and the dedication, I just like to listen to the stories of their training was watching the other day, which ones you will one of the ones where they were preparing for the games it to me. It doesn't even matter what year is just wanna watch the training. Their lifestyle. And you know, watched the event, as doing it with them in the covers. I like them. Is there anyone in particular that use of think she's good? Well, he's, he's like to you to your to me, yet New Zealand or Australia. Australia, do you relate a little bit to her because she's got quite focused Munster? She's, I think probably, like watching them so much, because account relate the differences that they can make a career out of cross fit. We can't make a career out strong. Yet, yet we've been talking about that. I think it's cross fit must've been at this stage at one point, and I guess it's it needs support of brands will says or especially if so participation with females in, in sport, the I, I would love members of kid watching wilderness. Man, you're watching the bus pulls watching the like it was amazing. So, you know, do you ever foresee being more of a commercial? Missile sport. Will it used to be on the television at the same time as we'll strongest woman, none? I remember watching Joe mills doing squat event on their thinking. Oh my goodness. Look at her to me to me, she's beautiful. I love how she looks and she's really muscular when I was just like definitely this is great. And I remember watching it thinking that I'd like to win. I was watching the guys and amongst the strongman fan anyway. So I really I really enjoyed that it was only on with them for a couple of years, it stopped, but I think that's due to social side of what people could watch what they didn't want to watch. You know, I think the world wasn't really ready for women lifting weights light battened, you know, now it's, it's a little bit better. I think women lifting weights as most socially acceptable away. A strong woman is going. Well we we get in better. We'll strongest woman is back. That's a great start. The onnell's has its image will championships than it has his class for women now as well. And the women's pro class is well received its own the main stage, you know, the people are that watching you on the crowds the crowds. Great. Official strongman games as well has a big. Wait wait class division and everything. So again, it's accessible. You can qualify online. So is coming together. I think people have to remember the strongman is in each spoil anyway. So, you know, in the minority spo- on women are the minority in it sedately ish. It's growing. Like it so much. Because it sort of completely against the grain of, of what women should be doing against fa me. I've never experienced such a more powerful community than I have in a in a novice Strom in competition. So last year I did one at the commando temple in Deptford in London, and I've never experienced in a competition, someone cheer me on I'm competing against and I genuinely felt they wanted me to do. Well is is this the same in, in all in all levels? So I think so of I mean to a point because, you know, at the same reason business, Harvard, some difficulty, and everything would definitely be that compassion. I've, I've got compassionate just in general because my job as well. So, you know, so I do want people to, you know to do succeed. And. You know, I would stand there in nj for people, but also, you got to keep doing miss out of vogue, and wrapped up in something else. I'm happy for whoever wins. They did a good job. You know. And the goal the Arnold Olga from the old against with her for years and years. It was nice. She'd have good on the day. You know. So I was happy for more of the pitches that you could save me. No conscious really happy. Yeah. I was gonna. Starting to be there just really happy to be competing on stage with that opportunity and so many, British women. Yeah. There was quite a few of us in this time. Yeah, 'and in the two classes. Well represented so amazing. So what does training look like fee because you're very busy woman, does your average is very different probably depending on what you're working towards. But how often are you training at the minute? I might just do for Jim days a week, maybe five. To prestige divide pressing down dead lift. On the might go do events session on Saturday. Morning if I'm not aware. But the tried to keep skills up with my event, train in because it's not narrow live this our way where the Spartan. Consent. So that's an hour away from where live, two hours of traveling before we've even done any trainings. I, I would go up there, once every two weeks, have a session with Jack just to keep skills to open educational as well. I feel the need to keep learning while if something of lock something than he'll tell me if a c- Jenny Jenny will tell me every time. So it's, it's nice to be reminded. You know, we might be not competing right now that we still need to keep, you know, on it really. So then whenever, you know, when you're next compass, the events, get released do then quickly switch up your training to be specific your training specifically for on around those events. So. In my soul flight, not strongman Jim that we do have some. There is a log on an axle stuff like that. So I would maybe change pressing to whatever implement on my end of being or if it was a circus. Don't building would like us, the dumbbells Narran participation kind of thing dead lifts. You know you can lift them up, higher lower opium of the strange whatever contraption dead lift, you know, you can build things, but you have to go with the places from yoke and spun from yoke stones. Yeah, he said any day that you wake up and you just think to train today, you're very summit image, happy because it's such a commitment, even just a few, like at the moment, especially with the social media chat that goes on about fitness. It's low pressure to solve key up, and it's very interesting hearing, you train four five days a week. I know people that trained twice a day every day, and, you know, it's almost like actually. Perhaps people need to really reconsider what you training full. I think that's the difference training. I was training, four something, so I would do four Jim days to event sessions week so that six sessions. So I was sometimes I would have to go twice. So to see Jack in the moment, and then we'll have to go to the gym at night. Yeah. And because the next day or be working, I wouldn't have time to go. I'm in your job. You sat down driving around to. Yes, you'll you'll on the move. It still in car. You're driving around the dales and things. John or not on the wall K. We're talking about running. Sometimes see, let's go for runs sometimes. Well have said, I was thinking about it. Some would like to go to go for a run with him. So we'll, we'll think about it. I would like to used to enjoy doing it. So, you know, maybe while I'm not doing my venturing bungalow running someway space, but save cardiac events Pacific is just moving things faster. Well, yeah. And we do these strint circuits the divide workout, so there would be the accessories of accounting. So we do them, as like, maybe specify describe, as like a great big giant super set. Okay. ABCD and for the Arnold one of our events was a stone shoulder. So the stern a steal I could take into my clean, Jim. Okay. So, for example, we do some other excise, but then that would be my circuit. The twenty minutes on a large stop. So you just going around these exercises for that amount of time. So it a little bit more a little bit more for non. Yeah. Because I think you need to have the insurance. Really? And on those days where you wake up and you just think all my. Gods? Of been working really hard. I haven't slept very well. Whatever is what do you say to yourself? I'm just like other people some days. It just don't go okay. You know because of something else, I have to the have to do, do 'and, if I go to the gym again, there are quite far away from our live and didn't have enough time, then it would be a waste of journey so thing but the other day he's the might think do the time you know, I just go just go a make myself. You might yourself gear. So is your motivation, if you describe it, what will get has got UT the position that you are in your career in life right now, taking the first step to change. It was the biggest thing then find something that enjoyed doing, first of all, so enjoyed the body, then stronger in body pump the yet numerous of the people, so it's finding something else that's the bit more for challenge. And then when I did my competitions than I just enjoyed doing those. To. So it's just the kids are older. And like I said it wanted to share with them that if you, do you know what cards or whatever is that you're gonna do then, you know what you want will happen for you. You just have to be prepared and have the patience in for it to happen. But also as well now with social media, I want to show the rest of the world, along with the other strong ladies that compete against that, you know what women Cundy what you what you see students. Can you come do that is there? You know you just if you wanted to be it's amazing. And I think the, the work, you've done the journey that you've had will continue to solve I think pave Paul for, for more strong women's from ladies to come in, and I feel like even just at my level in within even within London more and more women are starting to take on the, the fact that they want to be strong, not just for an aesthetic is because they, they won't they won't to feel good, but it's about performance and it's more about. The numbers. And unless on the on the scales, I think it's a sense of achievement in complement, our say empowering until you've been pulling like a great big truck along somewhere than, you know, you don't you don't know you just goodness. I've watched videos back of troubles, like that's so cool pillow tire flip peanuts one of my favorite things, you know. I just think it's such a cool looking event people know that this is a heavy sort of thing. So you just think yeah, after not this time. Yeah. So what would you what would you say to people that thing? I can't do that. I don't really have if you ask my kids, so I can't do that between speak line. And so, you come you just have to want to. And that's the difference. Make time is, is there anything else in life that you really want to is there anything else that you really want to do? What's next for you? With the in life is different things I would out like to do sport. Stroman wise of to go the Dinnie stones the tennis a bit more about the Denise style. There's some stones and there's a whole history behind them. It's probably easier than me. Explain them. If you just Google doodle Denise, but they're like, test of grip as well, because the heavy, there are one hundred eight gate Keeler at the front stone on one hundred forty four kilo in the back, stone, very difficult to hold because they've got old handles to basically, variety aren't as you've got different handles the worst ones all the hoops. So these ones are actually locked into the students, and you have to book a time to lift them. So I'm going to do mine in August. So he's going to be a few women have lifted them in some people have lifted them with straps. And then think one person's lifted the maybe without so I'm gonna go go and do that this summer. Hell, heavy all day, one hundred four four the bucket hundred eight at the front, so you have to kind of stock lift than the art blast owns that. Looked like atlas turns onto these big whiskey barrels, but you're not allowed any repair tall. On this lose of them even choke. You can use pin doesn't mean to defend or north Raines, because it's Gotland outside. You just look at the Joyal rain, the data. Those kind of things that just like things were phone. Would like a large outlet stone stone record a really big one. But other than that I'm happy with. I've done. Did. I never thought stop that this what it would be. Where did you did you think of that? I did you have? Did you ever imagine that it would get where you will? Now, of course. No, I'm from seven years. And I think this is the thing that I've said any notice is, especially with social media with sold these products that, you know, you can get results in seven days and intend, as in, you know, it's, it's actually madness, when you I guess, as you described you can relate to that feeling of maybe being a little bit lost. And you didn't know is really challenging being bombarded abilities messages. So, like, how do you how do you even breakthrough the all these messages that people again, I had no, it's that's difficult because the so much exposure tool the. All the messages. I think I was just lucky enough to take the opportunity to do that one competition. And that's when the found out that it was something that I liked, you know, I think with the people there is a lot of choice out out there things they can do, but, you know, short-term things don't always last, you know, and this is being journey from myself and physically stronger units. Also being a large Genio night my own personal stuff to filament. You know, I'm not the same for our rose. Then even before I started, you know, if I look at the pitches, let me and my kids when they were really small, it's too. We look completely different but I'm not even the same person they, they come to watch e. Only if it's in the if it's in the UK, the might, but it's just like over it rarely to be on. Wants to be an MBA spin the gonna play basketball, so. Yet we invest in him so he goes to the gym. When I get someone to train him. Unjaded that's given him the best opportunity. So if I invested him than in return, the deal is he has to invested himself from the, the conversation that we've had over the last I guess hour. So I just feel so much education from you, and I feel like whatever you set your mind to you just give a good go. Do is just the way. But, but, but you've you've done that you've created no one came and gave you a this is how you going to do it. You just go out there and done it, and I think it is really challenging, yes, it's intimidating. I agree with you wherever you're at in just need to go. Okay. This is I'm accepting where I am here. If I need to make a change, the only person that's going to be able to do that is definitely I think people need to be accountable to yourself. An in kind of in the job that I do as well as a lot of people who expected to be done full them. 'and fill that you can't. You can't be like atole you know you have to you have to do it yourself. You do completely agree. Hardwork Peiser people around you to support you in light. You know, you said about the strong community like, you know, things that everyone will be around you into support you and it's great that you go. You can go training, lose the people, you know, it really will be benefit. To not only like your physical, but your mental wellbeing as well amazing. Well, this just about comes close of our interview as we come to our last words, I just want to say, thank you so much different as in being a genuine pleasure, just just to sit here and missing to you, and even on the walkup with where we're going to be heading back into body power into fans own, but, you know, all all the listeners and personally, Donna has been an amazing inspiration if you want to find her check out her Instagram, which is Donna more strong woman her approach to a dead lift is the best thing I've ever say, talking to you. Guy. Talk me in this woke up to something else the other day. So that's, that's pretty cool. I like things like that. His phone as phone. It's nice the made a difference of people know, instan- to me, it's important to could will eight it shows and thank you for that. And I very much love your the attitude of if you want something enough, you just need to put the hard work in, and it's not going to happen overnight. Donna has been working for seven years, and she has a chief being the best in the world because I believe she wanted enough your I did, and inner other people's journeys might take even longer whatever they want. You just you have to put the work into get. What is that? You won't anything which is what I'm telling my kids to do at school right now. Enough that I think this is not the last that we're going to hear from from Donald, I think she would be obscene credible and inspiring to conceal you holding large talks. I can very much kind of I've really enjoyed talking to you so much. Thank you so much donor. And yeah. Hopefully, I'll be lifting what you can soon just, just need. Seven years body pump short just awesome. People should people to pump. Yeah. Two hundred thirty key. Dead left in body pump year. Maybe not maybe they'll enjoy singing along to the songs while this in everyone's spelt somewhere. Thank you so much. Thank you. And that's it team another episode down, and as ever I won't around this up with a final. Thank you to all the gang bit because without the team that this podcast, wouldn't be possible using all the resources, I can access with my Fitbit means I can utilize personalized insights, and have guidance on how to improve my overall health and wellbeing at the end of each day. I like to check my stats to just evaluate my day and gives me the reassurance I need the I am pursuing a healthy and active lifestyle. See you next time team.

Jim Scotland Donna Jenny Jenny Google John Powerlifting Arnold Olga Jim Webb Jim base Maloka Larrea YouTube Facebook London nj UK Dodgers basketball England
19 February, 2020  Episode 761  Fighting for Space!

This Week in Science

1:58:49 hr | 1 year ago

19 February, 2020 Episode 761 Fighting for Space!

"This is twists this week in science episode number. Seven hundred sixty one record on Wednesday February nineteenth twenty twenty fighting for space. I'm Dr Kiki and tonight. We will fill your head with old memories. Dead fossils invertebrates sex. But first. Thanks to the Burroughs Wellcome Fund and our patriots sponsors for their generous support of twists. You can become a part of the Patriot community at Patriot dot com slash this week in science School Lamour disclaimer disclaimer. You need to learn to walk before you can run before that. He must master crawling long before crawling. Human baby must learn to lift and oversized skull and have a look around that act as unassuming as it might seem is just the first of many gravity defying missions to come while we humans have gotten pretty darn good defying gravity on Greater and greater scales. We still do so with the same desire. We originally started with to have a look around and then to get up and go there and if we're talking about having better look around at anything that must mean it is once again time for us. We can science coming up next. Got Kind of mine. I WANNA learn everything up with new. Discover if it happens every day of the week. There's only one place to find the knowledge Alan kids and a good science to you. Justin Blair and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of This Week. In science we are back again with all the science from the past week. Such a great show. I have stories about making self replicating monsters. No Not Monsters. Biology self replicating things in dishes. I also have story a story about bird memories and we have an interview tonight about a new book about an old fight. What do you have for us? Justin I have a neanderthal sate. Revisited and just how the heck you can get dinosaur tracks on the ceiling of the cave. That's a really good question ladder. Yeah Chamblee what really heal the dinosaurs trampolines and caves? What's in the Animal Corner? I have after a long long respite. Some invertebrate sex in the animal corner tonight and I also have a quick story about new technologies or animal. Care all right all coming up in just a bit and as we jump into it here WanNa remind you that you can tell your friends about this week in science. If you like this podcast you can tell your friends to find us on itunes and Google play podcast. Portal's Stitcher spreaker tune in Pandora. Spotify all the places you can also find us on Youtube and facebook or just visit twists dot org but now it's time for the science. I want to do a quick update on the flu season in the United States and SARS covy to which was being called and covy two thousand nineteen a couple of weeks ago until the yeah name yes the name is mutated any who the CDC reports that there have been there have been fourteen thousand deaths two hundred fifty thousand hospital at Hospitalizations and twenty six million infections from regular seasonal states and only in the United States Global League there are just over seventy five thousand Cova nineteen cases that is the actual disease form of the virus. Sars covy to now there have also been two thousand fourteen confirmed deaths from Cova nineteen but with this growing disease. Researchers Have Three D. model the structure of the SARS covy to protein spike and others have outlined the steps that are needed to develop a vaccine for it. Quarantines are still ongoing and those quarantines are affecting trade and scientific research now numbers Contrasted to each other. Are I think helpful? Let people scare them about the regular influenza flu that comes around or maybe may maybe make the this pandemic that we're experiencing a little less scary compared to the the flu already know. Yeah and I don't Wanna I don't WanNa minimalized impact here but I do. WanNa take this as an opportunity to remind everyone the way that you can help protect yourself from the flu and the way you can help protect yourself from this rotavirus is to wash your hands. Not Touch your face when you're in public spaces. We spent some time in airports of. I made sure that I had my hand sanitizer and I washed my hands before it. Anything after touching anything in the airports so just good personal hygiene and protection is still a good fight against these and many other diseases and if you don't feel good stay home if hand absolutely yeah. K- I would love to introduce our guest for the evening. It's time for an interview. Everyone our guest. Is Amy Sherrod Heidel and she has an author and a space history junkie. It's true she blogs and blogs at vintage space and has written several books the most recent of which was released yesterday. Congratulations fighting airspace. Yes this book. This wonderful book tells the tale of two female American pilots and their efforts to go to space during the race to the moon and it. It's a wonderful story. Welcome to the show amy. Thank you thank you so much for having me your welcome. How did you first get into space? It's an I mean it's not. It's not abnormal for girls to leg space. But I guess not the the stereotype. So how did you first get into it fair fair? It's awesome. No when I was seven and I was reading my science class had to do perjury on planets and I ended up with Venus through whether I picked it or not and I always just thought it was so cool. That like it's it's about the size of the earth but it's roasting Lee hot so it's like the earth turned inside out and it rotates backwards and you can see with binoculars and to my seven-year-old brain that was the coolest thing in well off the world and I started getting all these books about space. You know thousand one Facts about space for kids and stuff and in one of them. There was this this two page spread of a drawing of two astronauts on the Moon in front of a lunar module little cartoon. I was just like wait. People walked on the moon. Why was ought informed? I would like to know at this place. I'm from Canada. We NASA is in everywhere in Canada. So it's not like I grew up with like a grandfather who worked for Lockheed or you know that we didn't have the same lake space everywhere so I just I I had to know about it and you know with eight something this big the more you read about it at the more questions you ask the bigger the answer becomes it just. It's just been this thing that I've been obsessed with since I was a kid. It's just there's always new and there's always a new facet any person a new angle. There's always something something new to look at it. It's always fun. It is always fun there and I mean there are so many stories and you have found this. I mean this story these parallel tales of these women and the way that their lives intertwine for and can you. Can you give us a synopsis of of this book? And the two women that are the the main characters. It's it's funny. You ask that because I'm like still struggling to cope with the elevator. Pitch of this practice and it's really the the story of of Of Two pilots and what what being a female pilot looked like at the time when America was starting to make the shift from aviation into space flight and for the women that wanted to be a part of that transition. It's kind of like. I said like a dual biography. There's really close look at two women. The first is Jackie Cochran. Who held more records than anyone else? Any other pilot in the twentieth century like male or female she was insanely talented and well regarded and You know knew everybody. I kinda describe her like a real forrest gump. She was friends with multiple presidents she saved. Lbj's life on a Wednesday one day. Just like you do as you do right. She was good friends with Eisenhower. That Eisenhower wrote one of his memoirs at her house She was friends with Chuck Yeager. Who taught her how to fly a jet and she became the first woman to fly through the sound barrier. She was the first woman pal bomber overseas she led the women's Airforce Service pilots in Second World War like she touched everything as did her husband. Which which created like the most like power couple you've never heard of. He owned Arco pictures for a minute. So was they controlled Disney and like. I have a great picture for having lunch with cary grant who I love. Also his. His company was the Atlas Corporation which you know through subsidies in and built the Atlas Rocket He he he owned America. And and Jackie was right. They are benefiting from it. And it's there kind of insane power couple nece just like she was just like she was everywhere and everything and Among their powerful friends was Dr Randy. Lovelace who did the medical testing for NASA for the astronaut qualifications? Which if you've seen the movie the right stuff that whole montage you know. What's his name? Not Woody Harrelson the other guy anyways. I can't think of the actor's name of John Glenn Anymore Yeah blanking anyways them like blowing into tubes of water running down the hallway with enema bags and stuff like that is what Randy lovelace did for NASA and he put this younger woman. Jerry cobb through the same testing and she just happened to be at the right age and the right place at the right time to do it and then it kind of this story context on his weird life of its own. Because you know how when when you know a new paper comes out and it's like there's new evidence for existence of past water on. Mars and the headline is water on Mars. It's it was basically the same thing like Randy. Lovelace presented this paper and was talking about how he put a woman through the tests and she fared quite well for the the astronaut medical tests and the headline is there's a woman astronaut training. It's like no seems actually when and she ran with this media for it and then like reading level as being a good scientists knows at one data. Point is not enough so he wants to get more women involved and get more data points. And then there's a handful go through the testing kind of pell-mell a little bit and he asks his good friend. Jackie to like help advise on the program and bring in more women so he's got these two kind of wrestling for control of this program. That's not actually a program. It's a private medical investigation. Jerry's like I'm GonNa do all the testing and like gets herself some psychological testing and just like gets like figures these things on our own. And meanwhile like Jackie's paying for all the girls to go and take time off to do these tests and they're like they're both you know it's just wild they're speaking of these events and Jerry will go up in front of the crowd and say they're sixteen women training to be astronauts and the Jewish. Jackie ends up right after her and gives her speech like there is no woman astronaut program. It was all over the map and the best thing for me in in researching. This book is that Jackie was a pack rat and she kept every single piece of paper and because she's friends with Eisenhower. It's all in the Eisenhower Library. All I have like the transcripts of these speeches exist the letters that they wrote to each other. That Jackie was seat on and she's not just writing these women and Randy lovelace like shoot. She was writing LBJ. When he was vice president and president she was writing to Jim Webb all the navy brass and all these people who are involved in the story all of their correspondences. And of course you know we forward emails. They were sending each other carbon copies of letters. So Jackie has at all. I haven't you Hemmitt already. It was great to like pieces together and be like. Oh my God this. Is You know the story of like the mercury thirteen. I cannot use aircraft with that word of the mercury or seen a bit about mercury thirteen people in our audience unfamiliar with that and tell us. This air quotes story. This is fascinating in itself. Also the I mean I have to put air quotes McGrath Thirteen because what I what. I learned in researching. This is that that story is wrong. So the typical story of the mercury thirteen is that there was a group of thirteen. Women led by the intrepid jury. Cobb who were trying to get NASA to Change the qualifications for astronauts to allow women to join the space agency in nineteen sixty two and it went all the way up to a House subcommittee hearing in in March sixty two in which Jerry another one of these pilots. Jimmy Hart and Jackie testified on behalf of women and John Carpenter and George. Low testified on behalf of NASA. And they didn't go anywhere. The transcript is have some amazing sexist moments even for nineteen secure and it just becomes this thing like the story. That's always told is like this. Systemic sexism intrepid feminist raw raw raw is group of women was denied access when in reality this group of women never met and there were not thirteen of them. One of them dropped out so really there were so it's just like these little these little things like the the term mercury thirteen was actually invented by a producer in Hollywood in the ninety s for a dateline segment and it stuck. Its very catchy. So so what I really wanted to do with. This book is kind of tease it out and because I found all these letters I mean to find letters of you know there's a some. I can't remember the speech or if it's a media a press conference but Jerry says that she's representing the women because she did the testing first and then. I have all these letters from other women writing to Jackie saying Jerry did not ask my permission to speak for me. She is not my spokesperson. I do not like what she is doing. And it's just there's division within the group that no one ever talks about so it was really interesting division within the group. That's not not rupe. Yeah they they met. They knew each other through through air races or whatever you know some of them. They weren't tested as a group like in the movie because women couldn't just take time off to do astronaut medical tests. They had to ask for time off to quit their jobs they had to find sitters to take care of their eight children in one woman's case so they kind of went like when they have a chance some of them got to test in pairs and got to meet each other but I think the first time they really started meeting as a group was in the nineties they end by then two of them had passed away so they were never all in the same place at the same time so h. Just go ahead you pass. There's like this. You need to get out of the house tonight. But wife of the senator on top of that only imagining insanity like all of these things. Sure I'll take a week off to do some medical tests. Let's find out. Yeah so did you get any? Yeah and I'm so excited that I get aside from the you know the I guess the the ego and probably the drive of Jerry. Did you get any sense from your readings of the letters and and all of the the transcripts of really why was she pushing this narrative of the women astronauts? Whi- which I mean was it simply if she thought if she pushed the media enough that it would come true. I think there's a little bit of that I. It reads to me a little bit lake. She started to believe her own hype. Quite a But she and she kind of presents it like. There's this group if we're united front. You can't deny all of us like you know one person it's harder to make a change when you have a whole group coming in then you take seriously especially. If they're they're all saying you know we're we're medically fit for spaceflight which let's also be honest in the early nineteen sixties. Being physically fit is like this big a piece of like this piece of needing to be an astronaut puzzle. I mean Yeah. It was sketchy it was way back then. So there's part of that but as she kind of gets as you start to read the letters and I quote a ton of them in there. There's a lot of direct references. You start to feel her desperation a little bit and to the point where she starts writing to Jim Webb and JFK and LBJ. Once he's president Saying I want to go to space and then it stops becoming I want to. I want to spearhead this on behalf of women too. I want this for myself. And it's like the the more she gets turned away and gets knows. I mean I have you know. White has routing slips that she would send telegrams to Kennedy and he would wrote it. Jim Webb to be like. Can you deal with this? You know he's doing the blow off from all these places. She starts just like grasping at straws she asked Lbj if she could fly the x fifteen and he's like Oh do you. Do you know what the exit heat is? If anyone doesn't know the fifteen traveled about six point mach six point seven And is effectively. It's a rocket with a cockpit on its air launched from underneath a B. Fifty two at altitude rockets up into space is controlled like the spacecraft for a few minutes and then has to land unpowered on a dry lake bed. I mean there's I think I think the exit teen I pass. I think it had like ten pilots ever. I mean including Neil Armstrong like these are not. This is not an easy thing. You can't go from flying propeller plane to find the exit teen and she wants to be a rocket jockey you put. This is years of training. This is jet training and you. She never flown jets. You had a lot of things that were missing. And she was just so it became this desperate. Plea was it's interesting till it's kind of see see how the tone changes as she as she continues pushing not weirdoes. I just have Am a fan of vintage science fiction and there was something that I noticed in in the outer limits series which is like sixty one sixty two maybe sixty three is there a women astronauts. It's as if like Duh. That was that's just all there in which you didn't if you look at it earlier by it was thought of as man on a submarine going through space and suddenly. There's all of these women's and I'd never had connected like what was in the air that could have provoked the writers to start throwing women scientists but this might be the background from it. This might be why they can be scientists. Now we've just put him into the show. Yeah there's definitely what didn't come. I mean you know Jerry and these didn't get a chance to fly in space but what did come with this really big push at NASA to highlight women who were working with the space agency so starting around nineteen sixty one sixty two. You see this like huge explosion of articles and magazine articles about no. There's there is a place for women in space a Nancy. Grace Roman is like heading every article that you find she was the I think the first woman head of a department NASA. She was an astronomer got pictures of hurrying teaching. Buzz Aldrin. How to see stars very cool stuff and do. Harra who is the astronauts nurse and they're highlighting all of these women who are playing these absolutely vital roles just not the sexy astronaut getting free cars and groupies roles. Astronauts are a thing so there was this really interesting like pushing asset start really being more aware of women and an opening to opening more positions to women. And you there. Was this interesting shift. That started and I think You know it's it happened just before that second. Wave OF FEMINISM. To where it was it was still kind of new for women to be in science at all but all of a sudden they did bring bring to light the fact that they're they're everywhere you just you. Just don't see them because you're kind of blinded by this like shiny man in a spacesuit so from Jerry and her her attempts to go to space. There's the story of Jackie and her historic hearst historic abilities in flight and her and her connection but her lack of support for Jerry. She was seeing or stories have been told about her in a very negative light and yet your book tells a different story. Yeah Yeah I think it's because when you when you tell the story of the Mercury. Thirteen in air quotes There's always the villain of Jackie. Who's just this? This older woman who like swoops down from her castle thwarts the other young women and then just like goes back into the forest to confer with her raven. She's basically malefic. Don't know what you're beefing. But she just comes out and she's like super evil so I started looking into Jackie fix. I realized that. Like there's some there's a very interesting interplay here and it definitely has to be more than just like this is a real story. This isn't just pitting women against each other because it's a trope there's there's something here So starting to look into. Jackie realized that she's actually this. Amazingly Complex dynamic really phenomenal character. I don't want to get into her backstory. But you just even her her upbringing. She grew up incredibly poor in Florida and the beauty industry was her way out of poverty. And she she learned to fly because her husband will before they were married but her husband suggested well if you want to sell cosmetics during the depression and you need to cover more ground so learn to fly. And she was off her. She's got her license in seventeen days. Which is like she's such a gifted aviator and just like you know. She learned to fly. Nineteen thirty two in nineteen thirty eight. She won the Bendix transcontinental areas which is like the biggest air race in the country at the time like she and this was not a female racist was she. And Amelia earhart. Who were buds by the way like? We're the first stars. Were some of the first woman start campaigning to make it a mixed gender race so I realized that she'd done a lot whether you know in some cases. She wanted to do it for herself because she wanted to win these races but she'd done a lot of fighting for women's rights and aviation on her own so she'd done a lot of this work already. So why is she coming in as the villain and I think it's because I really do think she she had a different understanding of what it meant to break barriers for women like she went through a lot to get the women's airforce service pilots going. She went through a lot to be able to do some of the things she did. She was under a lot of criticism out quite often when she was flying a jet for the first time people said that she was. Just you know seducing Air Force generals to buy her way into a plane and it's like and Chuck yeager seeing. They're like no she can actually fly the thing that you can like. You know she. She'd been through a lot of this and I think she understood that like the reality of nineteen sixty two is if a rocket blows up with a guy on it. It's because the technology is really knew when really scary and we're still figuring out space if a rocket blows up with a with a woman on it. It's because the woman wasn't doing her job right having all these great aviators. You're not you don't have the right stuff. Yeah it was really. It's like this interesting thing where she kind of like you gotta play the game a little bit like this is. This is not a thing where you can just say you want to do it and just claim that you're you're qualified like these things are in place for a reason what you can do what she was arguing with. Do this like big scale research program on women's such that were NASA was like we need female astronauts. She'd be like here's the report you have everything you need star immediately like. That's Kinda the point and that makes for nineteen sixty two. It makes a lot of sense especially when you consider a nineteen sixty. Two NASA was a year into the moon landing program. Nasa was still try it was having the mission mode yet of like Lynn orbit rendezvous versus descent like NASA had bigger issues than gender equality in nineteen sixty two. And that sounds like I mean very dated but it is dated. I mean when we're talking about era that's going to be the bigger concern than a couple of women saying that they feel it's unjust and you know it's it's one of those things that's can't take it out of time so yeah it. It becomes really interesting thing of like which one of them was playing the game right because they were both playing the game. Then that's what that's what I'm hearing too is. If you're gonNA make waves you have to do it right. The or you end up doing more harm than good. And that's and that's kind of what I've got letters from other women and also letters from from Jackie saying that you know nagging people that are in charge is not the way to ingratiate yourself to that and this is actually potentially harming women's entrance into space and it was actually. I think I should. I should have checked this before I came on with you guys but I think it was the fourth group of astronauts or maybe the anyways it was like nineteen sixty five or sixty six Nasa recruited a group of scientists astronauts. And this was like to start bringing in actual science people who could help on the moon landing Jack Schmitt on Apollo Seventeen was in that group and that group actually had four women make it quite close to the selection because they need to pilots. They just had to have a scientific expertise. And I haven't dug into this too much too much detail but I I kind of suspect like if if none of this stuff happened and four women were up at. It might have been the case that without having been dealt with. Pr Nightmare. Four years earlier. Nasa might have given more consideration to bringing in women earlier than the eighty s because that's ultimately how NASA started bringing in women. They made a made a division between pilots and mission specialists mission. I mean that's what Sally Ride. That's a lot of the first women were in that scientists camp. So it's it's a question of you if you if you're trying to change something as big as systemic sexism in the space program you know you gotta you gotTa do it do it right and I just think they were both going at it for with very different goals in very different ways and yeah that either of them really got there right. Neither of them got there. I mean for for Jackie to was probably you know generational also I mean. She was starting to as a pilot as she was at a certain point. You're going to age out way too old. She was Gosh. She was in her sixties by then. I can't math. But she was nearing sixty. She was nearing sixty by that point so she was too too old by any Any A- by any stretch but I think she bay around enough to sort of know what needs to happen to create a big change and knowing the people that she knew I mean she was close into political circles and people who we're working on big strategic efforts You know on on many different many different areas of the public sphere and so she probably had a an amazing bird's eye view into how to navigate those waters and make something happen. She knew how things worked but she also had everyone in her pocket like she could get to the deciders with a phone call. I mean she had a very unique perspective unique position and and used it when she needed to which was fairly often. That's amazing From the perspective of the The women's rights. I mean the timing for you to write this story now. Do you feel like this. This is this is the right time to be telling this particular story. It definitely feels like it's a a good moment to be talking about this kind of stuff and bringing it up and there's there's a lot of elements and it's not even just like the straight up women fighting to chain fighting for their space to use the title Be You know Jackie fighting for his base in the aviation world or Jerry fighting for literal. Space you know it's that that element is Hanley. But there's so many other other parts of this that I think are very relevant. One of my favorite elements of Jackie is that she ran this cosmetics company. That was one. It was one of the top luxury brands in the country. Right along with Elizabeth Arden And she refused to compromise femininity because it was also. It was as big a part of her as her technical skill. And there's a great. I have Sony pictures of this. But there's a picture of her She's sitting there on the tarmac in front of a t thirty eight jet in her flight suit putting on her lipstick and you can just see chuck yeager behind her head on his back like she would win an air race and she'd see the press and she's like I have to fix my face and she developed all these like this thing called a perk up stick. That's like you know those stackable makeup things but like really nice quality ones because they're from the forties and she would have it in her pocket and she touch up her her rouge her lipstick. And she's like she's making all these men wait like she turned this typically feminine thing into a power move. She's like why would you rush me if I'm GONNA have my picture taken? I'm not I'm going to be happy with it like she. She kind of was that like demanding. Women like every facet of her life. And I think there's a lot of things to be gained from a lot of facets of the story and at the end of the day it's just it's so nice rate as bright something this big. That's like the women are the ones in charge. The women's are the one of the women are the ones in the cockpit. It's like again. Describe it it's like you know. Kind of top Goner Ford versus for words or hard board versus Ferrari but lake. Mary women are the ones in the in the cockpit. They're the ones driving. They're the ones putting their lives on the line. All all over the place and they the still also have romances and it's just they're very complete characters and it was really fun to bring all of their elements to life. And just you know. I'm I'm hoping that whatever your whoever you prefer. Because I feel like they're very dividing characters. You're either to Jerry a little bit in in either case like you're GonNa be inspired by something that they've done whatever it is and there's just there's so much amazing inspirational elements in both of their stories that it's really fun to bring it up especially now when we're sort of especially but I'm aware that I haven't heard the story but I not know this but it's it's incredible that it's there and it's that you're going to be able to tell this in this way But yeah it's overdue. This is a very overdue story. Retold could not believe I think also Jackie died in one thousand nine hundred eighty which I don't know when people stopped writing about her. I mean everyone knows. Amelia earhart and g not do nearly what Jackie did and you know I've been going to go to all aviation museum. Go near I stop in. Look and there's always like a weird little you know Display case with like something of Jackie in it and like now that I'm looking nether. I'm aware like she's everywhere. But no one's ever re league and you know the last book written about her. It was like twenty years ago. I mean it's just it's weird. It's weird that it's not. It's not more known I'm like I'm so excited to bring it to people because I just. She's so awesome and like this take on the story. That's not you know not the Hollywood version although there's definitely like Hollywood story here but not the version of of these women banding together for something. That's not real. I mean it's I'm so excited to have it and have it with so many references. Not I loved. I mean the story enemy is like I loved it. I have the words to put in people's mouth like just being able to have all of their letters. Everything that they actually said is just like this wild transitive. Yeah so how? Are you telling this story? How are you getting this story out? There came out yesterday. So it's it's available all across the United States and Canada as well as the audio book narrated this time which a trip in and of itself did you did you narrated in actual audio booth or in your closet. Oh no in an axle audio but I did not have to sit there. And like then edit. It's eleven and a half hours. I think thankfully I did not have to sit there and edit that 'cause no. I'm wouldn't do that but they offered me the chance actually. It was one of the first things. Because I didn't get to narrate my first audiobook and I know people because my voice is with the channel and stuff people know my voice. And we're like it's weird that it's your words but not your voice actually the slot. I I told my agent was like okay. Great contract also. I'm nearing the audiobook. No no I'm doing it because I got a lot of feedback people wishing it was in my voice so No I spent. I spent six days with a lovely engineer named Dennis who was responsible for saying slowdown every other sentence. Because I talked really fast you need to see people will listen to it at one and a half or two need to slow it down and I I love when you flood a sentence. You're supposed to say pick up to just kind of go back. Top that sentence to Redo it. But my Canadian was just like Souris so just soaring the cutler. Yeah yeah figured out. What the what. The frequency went out for the best story the story. Yeah so no I would not. I couldn't do the audiobook myself I was. I don't have that kind of skill or patients but it's great to be able to work with a professional to be able to get it edited at but it's your voice in the final product which is to be which Israelis yeah and that's also available to an e books if you are you know don't like physical things. I've been seeing those all over the place burnt. It's catching on. I feel like I read in bed every night and drop books all the time. Lossing WANNA do is drop a very. You know metal e-readers on my face. Yeah that'll have a couple of flights and there were like there were people. There were people reading throughout the flight. But without the I get it I mean my my carry-ons will be way light. If I did that but I I don't know tactile I would love to know from I mean. Will you tell people whether you're on team? Jackie or team Jerry. Me Personally Yeah. I mean I. Where are you staying? Biased historian storyteller. I definitely have an opinion. I definitely I mean I don't know if I should like ruin the surprise guest flair. Because you're like I mean. It sounds like your team. Jackie. Yeah I think I think she. I think she kind of knew what she was talking about. I think she had enough behind her. That like you know sometimes you you gotta trust the experience that weighs into Something like this. Like making a huge change in the country But I tr- writing it. I didn't want to lead lead the witness at all. I tried to keep it not working but I tried to keep it balanced and let me kind of see for yourself where it goes and actually stumbled upon. I was in the Eisenhower Library and I was just out of curiosity looking through some of Floyd's papers Jacky's husband Looking through some financial stuff just to see you know they spent I forget what it was but something like fifty thousand dollars or something weird on flowers every month like just to see how their money was actually doing. It was weird. Yeah they had two houses choose. Death Dash anyways. I found a couple of extra letters and stuff that I won is kind of is the central piece of the epilogue. Which kind of gives you my my opinion because I included it but I don't WanNa ruin it but it's there's this this one thing that kind of throws a lot of stuff into question right at the end it was just like I found this thing and I was just like struck gold paper gold. Yeah that's my as a historian and storyteller that must that kind of digging and forensic search where you start late at layering it all together to create the story and the tension and being able to put it all together in a way. That's gotTa just be so fun. It was great. I mean this is just a little things like everyone. Everything's obviously dated and they write letters at the in the fifties and sixties was as per my letter in reply to your letter of November third. So you have all these dates to line up and you can see on the third Saturday of the month like can find the calendar. You can see you can put people in the same day in different places based on these letters and recollections and it just becomes a slake building the story out of all of this stuff and it was really of so fun. It was so fun to see it all coming together. I wonder how your job is going to be in say twenty or thirty years where all of a sudden you're downloading people's Google maps history. And they're yeah. Every time I find weird stuff you find like conference itineraries and stuff like the digital age is GonNa be so fun for the next generation story are five produce something that's not mid-century and how's that kind of data like it's GonNa be fun. It's GonNa be a lot of annoying digging but you're going to be able to build some things so complete that it's going to be. Kinda beautiful if it's preserved so that sounds interesting thing like the letters got collected and they got sent to. Those librarian replaces but whose whose dying and having other emails sent somewhere. I mean I don't know how this you just send the password to the museum honestly. I assumed that like Google has the main server. That's just keeping a record of every g mail email ever sent so like every server hassle out on the list but like you're never going to lead it because it has to exist somewhere in that server. I don't know I don't know enough. About how like the computer? Archaeology stuff works. I've looked into it a little bit of curiosity but like eventually somehow there will be records of everything like everything that you do on your phone. Your provider knows and not dig a has to be stored somewhere at least for month. Fishman's it's like. The temporary storage can be rewritten. But like it. Depending on the kind of storage you could potentially still find record of if you needed to although that would probably be really difficult but will end so many things now you you linked to your social media which we know social media never young never. I mean people link there Van. Melle account to their facebook. So you know exactly what? People are spending money on the tips. They share it on their facebook. So there's this amazing kind of footprint yet. We all be old. Gen xer here is like shaking. I'm shaking my head going. Why why this data it's wild but there's yeah we're the future historians. That's why for the feature stories because they will definitely need to know what we spent on lunch and what we got for lunch in two thousand twelve dear. Vicki's six dollars for Brunch. Do you think that in the future? You know looking back at the history. Do you think that future? Future Mr Missions to Mars or the moon or NASA considering where they've been in the past where we are now with The astronauts that we've got and also with future private space travel. Do you think that we're GONNA be struggling with similar issues? I hope I hope not. I hope not and I hope that we're starting to to kind of take the stance of like while we are all humans. Humans do things therefore let's pick humans that will will stop having the gender discrimination. Racial discrimination is just like. Here's the best humans for this job like we need to dig a mine on Mars. Here's your eight people. That are the world experts on this. Who can do this? They are the people and I think I think like taking that stance of looking at the human ability will allow the next and I say this without having kids so you know this is just my wishful thinking of like. We'll help the next generation and the generation after that. See that like it doesn't matter who you are. If what you do is really inspirational you can still learn from it and you can still be inspire art by it and that you know you. It doesn't matter. Who's in charge? You see someone who's in charge as a kid. They are the authority and you learn that everyone therefore can be on authorities so as we start getting into you know these feature long long term space missions and stuff that it's just like these astronauts whoever they are do amazing human things because we are all humans and we finally stopped fighting about petty things together like let this beat the thing that helps us show Lake Book. These humans did something awesome and they all look like all of us. We can do the things that led to the US humans my like rainbows and unicorns vision for the future where we stop having to have this conversation about about gender and everything and we're just people who are doing something amazing together as people you know it'll take a while and you know. I think I think is there the question I definitely getting. Yes is Nasser. The one that's going. They'll golly who knows that's can you? I know I having you know I. I don't I don't work for any of these people's and like I don't I haven't I been so living in like nineteen forty to sixty for so long at the really know what's going on right now. I'm very confused breath. This whole Internet technology I don't really know what's going on with SPACEX and I feel like because it's a private company. They might have some magic figured out that I don't know yet but last I talked to people at NASA bet. It we don't. We can't land humans on Mars yet. We're not quite there The parachute I mean I the parachute technology to slow something down to actually land softly with humans is not there yet so like a physical landing is really hard to have retro rockets that rockets not getting off the earth. Right now like we'd have to start doing like a fun. Brownian like build your thing in orbit and send it to Mars. Which like who's going to actually start with the infrastructure because yeah we change leadership so much. It's impossible to actually get something going that lasts and that's that's a challenge in itself so I don't I don't really know I think I I don't know it. Cuisine landed the booster rockets. And you got to read them from when I stopped. I stopped provided once that happened. I'm like they're going to figure it out rumored some big crazy promises that pretty crazy. I mean who he might. He might figure out. I I don't know I can't really I can't say with any certainty 'cause like I ultimately think like how. How many times has the Mars mission been pushback? Like we're supposed to go in and nineteen eighty-nine right. We're supposed to go in the seventies. Then we're supposed to do it in thirty years in nineteen eighty nine and it's just like everyone keeps having Mars like their attempt at Kennedy moment with the moon and like then Mars really hard and expensive and is like well beyond anybody's term in office so it disappears like this is the cycle that we keep going through and I think until either something. Worse SPACEX like really laying that foundation. I I don't know I don't know against the Moon Moon base here. We're going back to the moon this year or at least that was the last proposal of going to the moon. Something years ago I was going to do it in two thousand twenty. I thought it was gonna I fight was now in twenty twenty one. I think it was last year. Move back but that's for a rover mission not for a manned land again. Twenty years ago we were going to be landing on the moon again. Now I think we have human circumnavigating the moon last year next year. But you know what the status of that mission is and this is. This is the one that I think it's supposed to be like the all-female crew which to me feels like tokenism a little bit like little. I don't I don't feel like we need to have an all female crew for the sake of having an all female crew again. Let's get the right humans for what we need to be doing and show that it's about merit not about what you look like. We'll and that also still expectation of other ISM with yes other than just integrating. That's my biggest frustration with and even I mean you know I as much as I love sort of like the the women empowerment like conferences and stuff. I feel like all that needs to happen in a mixed environment so that little boys also grew up seeing that like women and little girls grew up seeing that like women in charge women. Doing these things is not limited to only within women that like we don't do the apart from everything else he do this period like that's and that's kind of why I love. Jackie is really cool model of like doing what you can do. Because you know you can do it and shut up if you think. You can't look your. She's she's that you know a a century ago So yeah I know. That's that otherness of women that other necessary sort of like kind of leaves. That bad taste on now. I know what so you are going to be current right now. You're going around and promoting your book. And Yeah they're going to be too. Are you touring around leases or you make a algae this to burn it into your brain So far I've got a handful of things coming up enough No like crazy tour But you know if there's if there's good reception and there's interest like yeah of course they'll promote it because why wouldn't why would I spend three years writing this and not want to promote it So I've got a couple of I've got like four or five events coming up in the next couple of weeks and we're kind of kind of playing it by ear and getting back into like the Youtube Channel and all that other stuff are you doing. Are you going to be doing more of your vintage space videos? And actually were rebranded. The channel to vintage space to kind of open me up a little bit too stuff. That's that's vintage but not strictly spaceflight because there's a lot of stuff that was great in the book that couldn't get in there that I really WanNa talk about Sharon. It's it's awesome and it fits within vintage but you know it's a space for vintage things to now So kind of getting back to that and getting back to blogging and configuring out what happens next. Yeah finding the next amazing story. I know that much graduations on surviving for the next big thing but I also like let's let's sleep and I that sounds like a wonderful plan so we will let you get to sleep so the vintage space. Yes is European. Yes yes all of the plugs. I'm the vintage space the channel. Although if you search vintage space you still find it which is convenient for Google search in lyrics also on twitter. Amy Shirt title is where. I do most of my shameless self-promotion as well as advertising. And letting you guys know about events signings anything I have coming up and also like what? My New Youtube video is when I do have one isn't a regular schedule right now because the there's a decent travel happening And yeah that's that's kind of everything kind of lives on on. Twitter is kind of like the main spots. That's the best place to follow me. Fantastic and hope. Many people follow you and check out your book available everywhere in America and Canada wonderful and hopefully soon in other languages and other countries yes. Yeah that's that's to come. I will announce when that happens on twitter tainted food definitely check this book out because thank you thank you so much for you know letting me. Kinda rant a little bit about this stuff. I'm clearly have a lot to say. Share this it's fun to finally have it out in the world and be able to share it so yeah. I imagine you hold it close to your chest while you're while you're fostering it and bringing it into its form and then now it's like I can talk about it. Yes Yeah. He's all the details. Thank you so much for joining US tonight. Thank you guys. Have a wonderful night? Everyone that was a title of fighting for space is her book and we are going to take a very quick break and we'll be back in just one moment with more this week in science. Thank you for being a part of this week in science. Thank for watching on Youtube or facebook. Thank you for listening to our podcast wherever you are listening and you are the reason we're able to do what we do. Every week bringing you up to date and down to Earth views on science trade. It's all because of you and with your help we can do even more together. We can bring a sane perspective to a world full of misinformation head to twists dot org right now click on the Patriot link and choose your level of support be apart of bringing sanity and science to more people. We couldn't do it without you and we're back with more this week. In science to WHO WE HAVE STORIES? I said it was a quick break. Justin didn't believe me no he. This is the new flow of the show. We're trying to do. I'm trying to do some new things to break it up a little bit. Make things move a little bit more quickly and so Yeah we'RE NOT GONNA do that. Big Old long break there in the middle anymore. It's GonNa be it's GonNa be much shorter. We'll see we'll see. I think it's a better idea but let's talk about science. Are you ready for that Blair? Oh I'm ready you ready for science. So let's talk about the self replicating nature of self-rule hitting major of e timeout DNA. Yeah okay good job. Oh you jumped on that very quickly. Life Yeah Life. It replicates itself that is one of the hallmarks of life if it doesn't replicate itself. Well it's not going anywhere and that's not that's not how it works. Researchers in synthetic biology have been attempting to mimic biology but artificially and in doing so over the past several years. We have gotten things like artificial bribe's oems where the rn a the DNA and the and the ouray that are necessary to produce the that create the right resumes which then put together the proteins that we need to have ourselves function That they're able to work together and and And that has been one separate effort. Other efforts have taken jeans and put them into bacteria we've taken genes from one bacteria and put them in other bacteria last weekend. We started talking to David Baker over at University of Washington who is working to make completely synthetic proteins and now researchers from the Max Planck Institute have published in nature communications their paper called in-vitro self replication and multi systemic expression of large synthetic genomes. Lot of words put shortly is that they have created a A pilot system. It's this is the early stages still. This isn't in completely artificial cells. It's a cell free system which pretty much means in a dish. They've got a bunch of DNA and are in a and it works together and there's transcription which copies the DNA into RNA translation. Which takes that aren? A and turns it into a string of amino acids and then protein production and they showed through Mass spectrographs mass spectroscopy that increased levels of protein. Were showing up compared to their starting system. They have a system that is a hundred and sixteen killa basis which is really short. One Hundred Sixteen Killa base pairs of DNA is really close to what is thought to be the smallest genome size possible for a cell genome to to live and be self replicating The smallest that they have seen that's estimated that it for it to work is one hundred thirteen killa base pairs and that's a natural system So this synthetic system is not much not much bigger. Three thousand base pairs bigger and Has are in a preliminary courses which are the enzymes necessary for transcription translation to take place. We have They have a bunch of jeans. They did take from E. Coli and put in there to create the genome but in this cell free system. Dna was copied and pasted and copied and pasted been copied and pasted and it was self replicating itself in then just working synthetic genome do as DNA do DNA. Did they did live. They do best. Yeah the The exciting part of this is that in the future They'll be able to take this system at least where they hope they'll be able to take this system. will be able to They'll be able to potentially make a minimal a minimal minimally viable sell an M. Mvp see that could be used in biotech to synthetically produce substances that we want Russia. Was there a purpose with the proteins that they had were they? Were they all furthering? The this is all just being self replicate cells. But that's that's the thing. So biotechnology does is back engineer. The entire process. They find an organism and they tried to tweak it so that it produces a protein that they want but of course. There's all this other stuff that the organism was was evolve to do that the processes and energy that's being used up another places that such a tremendous goal. There is to start in have minimum thing. That makes what you want it to do that. I saw that's going to be very specific and efficient at it. Be Tremendous can converting carbons in what you're putting into the whole. Yeah and the so. What you're talking about is that it is a top down method take something alive and tweak it and what this is is bottom up designing it from the bottom up and this is So principles for Major. Yeah and then you don't Annaborough car that's got like three extra wheels that don't touch the ground and like all this other stuff that came with the thing you started adding things onto or tweaking that you don't actually need came with the rest of the the architecture and what I'm imagining is this bottom up design would be. I think more of a better application of the synthetic proteins that David Baker's lab from our interview this last weekend That it seems as though it would be a better application because then again you're dealing from the bottom up with the specific the specific blueprint to design the protein. That you want That will function exactly how you want. And it's in its itself the minimum and the exact in the most efficient version. And then you create an organism that is the most efficient at making that protein. And there you have together the thing revolutionizes everything that we think. We've got so far from bad technology. Unlocks that field for reels for real so. This is our pretty exciting. I think it's a I think. This is a big step towards creating a self replicating system that mimics biology. It's Big One and we've talked a burglar show how we're always sort of. This is the greatest time to be thinking about science and the potential. When we're talking about these were always getting to see firsthand. Is these things. Come across the crawl of the this show but the what's been happening lately is really bigger and more promising and massively game changing compared to I think any time we've been on this show and talking about these. It's it's all all that potential all potential that we've been talking about the genome has been unladen as they've learned to play with more about all the potential that's there is starting to turn into action station in maybe as little as twenty years medicine will be unrecognizable. Awesome in the best way. Absolutely it'll be less starts happening but I'm saying in twenty years you're going to go used to do what used to provide a dead person's stuff in your own used to make anybody's. I put a dent stuff inside of you. You think people who are already sick with cancer and then you expose them the massive levels of radiation. What yeah what's the memories of the memories of leaching people with radiation? You know you know. Birds have long memories to they do a new paper in biology letters From a researcher out of Victoria University in New Zealand Rachel Shah And her co authors. They looked at a little song. Bird New Zealand's North Island Robins Patricia. Long Ipe is this is also known as to why in Maori and these birds based off this. I Okay. The reason bringing you. The story is because this is a memory and bird study. And for those of you who've listened to the show for a long time you'll know that my phd was in bird memory and in my studies. What we did is we had these little trays and they had little covers over. Holes in one out of seven holes was filled with food and we trained Zebra finches and other species of birds to go and take these little lids off the tray and find the food and overtime when they learned where the food was. They got really good at finding it so it only takes them one or two lifts and they would be like. I found my food and it was really great. We only ever looked at their memory over. I mean maybe the the longest duration between testing intervals was a week. So we weren't. We weren't testing really long term memory however this story I love because Shaw with studying these birds previously and she trained them to open up. And I'm going to show you a little a little picture of the event. Get back to the right window because technology is being hard right now so beautiful and so this is a very wonderful design of a tray with holes drilled in it and her little lids were The birds had to they were held on by screws. And so they would rotate around the screw and the bird had to push the lid to be able to find meal worms that were hidden inside of one of the holes in the trae. She did these studies back in She's published a study on these back in two thousand seventeen showing that look. These birds can learn this food. Finding Task Tada very similar to the work that I did now. She went back to New Zealand and was giving a talk and happened to have the trays there. And a bird. When he's little robbins hopped out of the the forest and opened one of the lids and was looking for food. As it remembered the task like a year or two later it was a very long period of time later and so led her to think I wonder how long in these birds memories actually last because the idea is oh they just have to have this seasonal memory so their memories are going to be there only like one season and then go away right if you only have to remember where your food is to survive during winter or breeding season. Why why is it going to matter all those things than kick back in the next time? That season comes right up to come up with a whole new strategy every year bird wings and so so that's that would be the other side of it is okay. Perhaps these are longer food finding strategies and these memories are are deeper and longer because of this they learn anyway. She went back. She tested the birds again. She found out that yes indeed. They are able to remember this food finding task for up to two years and now she's wanting to test them even longer to see how long they can remember this task so for one one thing comes to mind right away and that is migration so if birds if we're just generalizing two birds. There are some birds that migrate this. You need to know. Some birds are really good at going back exactly where they came from being able to forage in the same spaces in it just makes sense that there is some long term memory involved with that it does. But if you don't look at it you never know. Yeah and which is when you come back to. Yeah and this is my other. I think we've talked about this on the show before. This might be a really silly question but like how much how? Many longitudinal like really long term studies are there out there because PhD projects and even post docs only so long and it just how many people. How many advisors are out there that are fostering the same study over ten or twenty or thirty years and out of there yet? They're they are a rarity so these types of studies that do go on long when we find out about them. It's one of those especially for science writer or journalist year like this exciting we can. This is an amazing thing that that that is going on these and More so in human studies because humans are so lived But animal studies. You can definitely you know five ten years. Maybe you can learn a lot still a long time and I think you know some of that might have to do with. We maybe need to adjust how certain universities have PhD candidates. Defend the thesis or project. Because if you're supposed to be finding things in the course of study but you're really just contributing data to this very long-term study. Maybe yeah I just this might be a. Meta thing that I'm bringing up here but I think that that might be something could be looked at is. How do we change the nature of academia to contribute more to long term studies and less to something of design? A project do a project. Tell us what you found right now. I think the you know the question also is with this. This particular. This particular study is getting back to the birds. What you know. What are the aspects of the task that they remember you know if the task were more complex with a remember it as well if it is it? Just oh I remember this box. I'm not afraid of it. I can move the LID. Then that's more procedural memory. Bennett is a a spatial memory? Or a contextual memory by association versus logic versus problems. Up a lot of different. Yeah that's interesting yeah I really. I really liked it. I think it was little birds and probably many more animals as we have said many times probably have a very great memories are smart and they remember things and we need to fund longer term studies so that we can discover more of this more easily there. We go that said Justin. What'd you bring to talk about? Oh okay this is the okay so this is from Ken. Shanidar cave and Kurdistan Some new neander news so anybody who is being closely tracking meander news stories over the years. I remember this cave and might sound like an old story. The site is one where archaeologists Ralph select. He discovered about sixty years ago. A whole bunch of neanderthals. Ten of them some cluster together found some clumps of ancient pollens rounding one of them and many of the skeletons showed signs of being cared for because they had injuries. Or disease that appealed. There were a little bit older than we might have expected some almost my age even so this was some evidence that they had been married and for the studies found anything been well cared for. They may have any funerary rites a little bit of a mortuary thing going on with the flowers from the pollen so as as as can happen and science there was not agreement about all the implications of this nen certainty of seeing this picture so far into the past and extrapolating why these were found when we reported on ups and downs of this to some extent. There's one study that had concluded the they had been crushed in the cave buried because the cave head had fallen down upon them and then another state went back and go. No the yeah. The skulls were crash. No bones were sort of broken up. But that's just what you would expect it with. You know fifty sixty seventy thousand year old bones. They could have still been laid in place. So lots of lots of There was a study that said that the pollen could have just as easily come from animals. There's another one that was found. It looked like it was made up of things it would have been considered medicinal herbs in the ancient world. And so maybe they were. They were funerary rites after all anyway or attempts to keep people alive that they were had on them to treat injury or illness. So that sort of thing. So there's been tons of controversy on this so professor Graeme Barker from Cambridge McDonald and student of archaeology. Wanted to go back and re date this cave rebate the soil and take a little Return he started trying to go back over a decade ago but of course this is in Kurdistan and Iraq and there was there have been wars in. There is isis things so they've been having a hard time getting back finally got back in twenty sixteen and started to go about their work. And this is quoting voice from Barker. We didn't expect to find any manner tall bones because of course they were there to do was just to revisit that site and reduce some of the studies with modern equipment. And but of course exactly what they did they found another Nando buried in this case they did it to over seventy thousand years ago and they have dubbed it Shan Dr Z. The new excavation. This is cody voice Quoting Barker the new excavations suggests that some of these bodies were laid in a channel in the cave floor created by water which had then been intentionally doug to make it deeper. There is strong evidence that Shanidar. Suzy was deliberately buried. If using Shanidar cave a site of memory for the repeated ritual in terms of their dead it would suggest cultural complexity of a higher order even then has been a platinum. Sorry they've they've see. Teed scanned the bones at Cambridge. And they've found some some interesting the wedge at the base of the skull appears to be intact and that is a pretty decent spot currently for retrieving ancient Neanderthal DNA. So they're going to be able to Going forward try to take a look at the genetics of this new fine which should answer more questions as well as get the all. The data Diddley went searching for which you now. You're going there for soil sample dating and then you find in the end result they got a little sidetracked but We're going to keep our eye on Shanidar cave in Kurdistan the future to see what new bounds. This investigation is going to give us. I think it's exciting. I mean every time news comes out about neanderthals Neanderthal Neanderthal It's just like it's like the Animal News it's of course they were comp- complex and they had culture and they had all these abilities that we once upon a time said no no no no only humans only that only human which also turns out neanderthals part of us also so that's also fund and now. Kmart that we had associated with some of the associated with the early current. Modern humans is now much too old in has to be in the NFL. So yeah if taken together if you took what we know now about Mantos in Shanidar cave had just been discovered by than than his conclusions that he was coming up with would've not been outrageous at all what he deserved and the inferences he took from it would have fit nicely to what we now know the fact that we didn't know any of them and they were mantos. Were supposed to be knuckle dragging caveman offshoot dead end of prominence and weren't supposed to Be Part of the picture going forward. And so and so that was also part of what What that was what was understood by about neanderthals. His discovery was met with considerable and probably do skepticism. Because of we have been discovered today they would have had a very different Take on on that. Because of all the other observations elsewhere that fit with it and it wouldn't be a standalone sort of data point of showing more of a complex society in the end dos. Yeah it this. Really highlights the The importance of the timing of scientific discoveries if they do not fit within the Melia of what is commonly understood. It's not you know it's not met well but if it is date it's it's evidence of its data. That comes in at a time when people are seeing other things when the when the environment is more welcoming to that perspective than it than it finds. Its IT finds. Its kin more easily. I it just is Fairly dinosaurs had feathers were. They were laughed. Dad Dinosaurs Lizards. They don't have they didn't have feathers. What no and I think it's important that people understand that this is science is really supposed to work so when you hear that scientists are disagreeing about something or their arguments in science somebody people believe that science and they stop learning science. It was a hard science it was it was these laws. These are the facts sciences thing of set the term when you watch a Nova special is a great example to me a lot of times. They're telling you all the things that we know in whatever. The subject is that they're covering what sometimes leave out is all the different opinions that came and all the arguments and all the new evidence that had to come to peace all of these portions together to to make that definitive claim that science makes most of Science. This uncertainty there is uncertainty. There's doubt there's questions there's there's There's an observation. Has a very good signal of this is what. I think it is in. Somebody says I don't see it through blatantly differently and it's not until more and more data points are collected and put together that we can start to have a better view of it and I think the public needs to now more more that this is a process the saints thing. It's it's It's supposed to have people raising doubts within the science community as they are you back and forth about yes it is yes so it is now time that time in the show. Oh if you just tuned in. You're listening to this week in science and if you're interested in a twist shirt or Mug or other item of twists merchandise we have stuff you can head to twist dot org and click on the Zaza Link to browse our store. And now it's time for quarrier bed hear about animal jaw except more giant. Grab her. I'm so excited because I think this might actually the first time since I got a theme song. I actually have some millipedes to discuss pad mill go so millipedes actually is how they pronounce they are. They are invertebrates. They do not have a thousand feet the the biggest and oldest ones have closer to three hundred maybe four hundred feet but they have a lot And their body plan has been confusing scientists four decades mainly because they can't figure out how they have sex which is important due to that. You know self replication. We were talking about before. I kind of like the whole meeting of life right being able to put pass your DNA on. So how the heck are they able to do this? It's been a mystery for so long. A joint effort from the Field Museum in Chicago at UC Davis have put a bunch of different kind of layered information together to try to figure this out. They use new imaging techniques and back lights to Make different tissues glow to try to identify kind of like the the pathway to where where it's all happening there on thirteen thousand different species of millipedes that we know of thirteen thousand we discover more every year. Yes so they're they're they're so many and as far as we know they each mate differently. But we still don't understand the mechanics of what's going on during the mating process And so on this study Scientists focused on Pseudo Paula. Thomas which is a half inch. Long Brown millipedes from North America. They're not too exciting to look at it. They're just little half inch brown things that hide in the dirt but what made them the perfect study individuals four. This research was that they are happy to mate in laboratory laboratory condition so most millipedes because they live underground they only made underground under dirt so pretty hard to study but these guys will even make in a petri dish under light without dirt so shame in their game no shame at all which is great because they were able to take dozens of photographs at very distances they use computer programs to try to stack images together so they could see miniscule details in focus in each different shot. They were able to take both natural and ultraviolet. Light pictures since Interesting Fun facts. Millipedes genitals glow under UV light. So that helps kind of identify. What's going on there? And then they're able to do micro. Cat Scanning these guys you could actually put them into test tubes and do CD scanning on them so you don't have to dissect them or anesthetize them to scan them which is great so all of this together helped them figure out some really important stuff so one the male's testes are behind their second pair of legs but his pods things that he uses the specialized legs to insert sperm into the female are behind the seventh body right now. It makes a different from centipede. Is that millipedes. Have two sets of LEGS FOR EACH SEGMENT? So they have four legs per segment and centipedes only two they have one life per segment On each side so Seven the difference between the second and the seventh body ring is a difference of ten legs. So would he has to do is release the sperm onto his body. And then dig his GonNa pods into the ejaculate end it. It's a bluish liquid for some reason. And then once he has kind of a loaded up his gun pods with the blue liquid he can insert them into the female and so she has two openings on either side of her second pair of legs which makes sense for the body plan that their copy literary That they're they're GimMe producing organs are in the same place in terms of body plate male female that makes total sense So her her second pair of legs and then The Ghana pods can kind of insert and have a slight curve on them like claws so that he can hook in and make sure that he gets what he needs in their. This is where it takes a Turk after mating. The female actually seals up with a gooey secretion that traps the sperm inside then when she lays her eggs. So they're not internal fertilizers when she lays her eggs they get coated with the stored sperm on their way out so that they can then be fertilized outside But the expectation was that because there's secretions happening anyway from the mail that this secretion is something provided by the mail to seal her off so that she can't meet again to reduce sperm. Competition makes perfect sense. We know well about that in the invertebrate lifecycle. However she's Dave the they found glands inside the female with their C. T. Scans so they actually think the secretion comes from the female. They have no idea why it could be her way of protecting herself. It could be a way of preserving the sperm. I like. I'm not ready. This is not a I. I've got great strategy. I can do the mating now. I'm all set now. Used to have to place. Yeah absolutely yeah so we have more information than we did before which is great for a bunch of reasons one is just that invertebrate sex is fascinating at least if you're me but or these researchers but the other thing is that when we understand how animals mate we can understand other things about their lives their role in an ecosystem and how to save or eradicate them depending on what animal they are and what their situation is so for. Wildlife Management standpoint understanding. How Meeting Works is quintessential? So it's fascinating weird bizarre cool whatever you WANNA call it. We understand a lot more about millipedes that that being said said there were like thirteen. Thousand Species millipedes that we know of divided in about sixteen orders that we know of and most of them. We don't have any idea what any of their genitalia look like. They work so. This is all preliminary. This is our first step in understanding millipedes. They could all be very similar and then we can kind of draw conclusions from there or they could all be like different colors and a rainbow rates and knowing how to look for it is how we can discover more about all of them and see how similar they are. How different they are. If they have different I mean I would imagine there are different solutions for different environments Right but you can go to for Life Histories. Yeah so so part of the thing. Was that this species was such. An exhibitionist engine. Mind performing in the laps great yet. That's a big part of the research in the lab but now that we know certain things like where gonads live we can take a millipedes of a different type that does not want to perform in front of an audience and potentially dissect and see if we can find similar structures in similar places and if we keep finding this stuff behind the second set of legs than we can we can kind of extrapolate from there and be able to study further without having to watch them in the act which would be huge. That would be huge. Although I think the another important step would be to find out if they have the same kind of reproductive plug resort to decrease sperm competition in In other species because that seems and then if there's the same kind of female process as right is described in this one because that I think is really interesting absolutely I want to know. Thirteen thousand species. Are they all the same? Probably not no. I'M GONNA go. We'll we'll know more at eleven well actually not. But what's your next story? Oh it's about meeting squids more invertebrate sex. Yeah Squid They are one of many animals Louvain. The ocean that have to deal with certain noises that humans make one of them being pile driving k. Yeah so we. We do a lot of pile driving in the oceans for a lot of different reasons to install structures usually is the big one either for windmills or bridges or any number of things peers. Who knows thing? That's part of building in and around oceans. It's allowed it is high intensity and previous researches show that it can actually damage marine animals tissues when they're nearby or alter their behavior when they're further further away so this is a study from woods hole oceanographic institute who we and this is looking at long thin squid to see how they kind of reacted near pile-driving noises during mating so what they did So I just the long-fin squid is responsible for around two Spoke numbers twenty six million dollars of annual revenue in the fishing industry. And did they have an important role in the marine ecosystem so that was a good place to start kind of see how this could impact us fiscal but also the marine food web because stem they placed large male small male and a female squid into a cylinder tank and added an egg mop cluster of laid eggs to entice the animals to perform meeting related behaviors so there are different squids with other mating rituals and tactics. Male squids have a couple different tactics which is why they had the large and the small squid in their smaller. Males attempt coercive copulation so they dart at the female and try to catch her by surprise but larger males will actually court females and guard their mate they stick by them and protect her from sneak copulation attempts from the smaller meals so they wanted to put the large mail normal male and there to see how this impacts all of these different kind of behaviors. So they the males are visually and tactile early attracted to the egg mop and it gets them kind of armed up and ready to mate. So they're they're like oh now's the time right. And after one of the males started guarding the female the researchers exposed the animals to five minute playbacks of pile driving noise. They then repeated the process with ten minute breaks in between on dozens of groups of mating. Squid pretty good study size with the speaker on one into the tank and hide your phone on the other. They measured noise levels in the tanks at observed the animals and they saw that. Some squid showed alarm on the first pulse of the first playback but really quickly became habituate habituated to the racket and once they were startled when the nose Noise began then. They went back to mate guarding within seconds And then after some time some of them showed no sign of alarm at all at the start of this out. Once you get used to it. I imagine it wouldn't be a big deal but This sound I think is. It is a bit startling if you listen to it. Sounds like Zach us? That's blowing the back. It sounds like a heart eaten. I don't like it I. I don't think I could perform with that. So the interesting thing about this study is that they had already done experiments on as I said you know. Tissues and behavior based on us and behavior based on pile-driving sounds but those rain `isolation so they showed the alarm when the pile driving noise started and they would inc. They were jet. They would change color but if they were in these groups and meeting was kind of suggested then they became acclimated much quicker. This is probably as priority. You're meeting is crucial. It's a lot of CEPHALOPODS. Have THEIR TERMINAL BREEDERS? So they'll die right after they breed right so if you if you get to the end of your very short lifespan and you haven't taken care of business that's it you're done. You're Diana's Gonzo so this is crucial which means nothing else matters. If you're getting down to business as a Steph Right you got to keep your eyes on the prize and so in this case. Mating is one of the behaviors that does not appear to be affected by human rack. Big Auditory noises. Yeah disturbances and at I would imagine if you're with the group and it also doesn't seem to be something that is causing. It's not something immediately life threatening. You're going to be a little bit. You Got Group dynamics going on feeling a little bit safer. Even if it is arming. Salmon got overhead bears up ahead. And I'm still on. Yeah exactly I can. If I can fertilize those eggs. None of us went past the bed. It doesn't matter if I die. Yeah absolutely so so if I put this in context. It's a fun story. 'cause it's about invertebrate sacks all this kind of stuff but really what this means. Is Animals. Response to potential kind of triggers in the environment or non natural impacts are not universal. They are not universal to the species. They are not universal across individuals. They are not universal across behaviors. Which I think is what makes this really interesting. If you're foraging that could really mess you up in the long long term. That could still be a problem because if you can't get enough food in order to survive long enough to mate then you're sunk for the same reason but if it doesn't impact meeting than maybe you only pyle drive during may squid mating season. So you see how this could. This could impact wildlife management in a good way right if you could get human activities to correspond to the behaviors of the aquatic wildlife than me. And we'd be living so well because if you're just going to say no more pile-driving in the Ocean. That's that's not get a happened. That'S NOT A. That's not a realistic expectation. There's something really interesting to me. That makes me wonder how universal blocking everything out for mating in thinking about humans even which we consider to be the highest most cognitively advanced species on the planet people will take huge risks for love. This history is full of examples of this and it seems like there. Might you know this might be the one of those universal traits about life forms. Where when it comes to love. We'll we'll do anything I'll do anything for love and now it's time for some quick science stories though getting into some dog. Like teeth were discovered in a Paleolithic Cave. Twenty eight thousand five hundred year. Old Fossils site in the Czech Republic had evidence of two groups of Kanaan's and the researchers publishing in the Journal of Archaeological Science They were looking at the dental. The dental micro wear texture. So how did food that these animals eight affect the surfaces of the teeth? What they discovered is that there were two very distinct wear patterns in on the surfaces of the teeth and one of the groups that they're comparing to wolf-like Kanaan's seemed to have smaller wear scars. Probably because they were eating more More flesh like mammoths and the others had larger wear scars that indicated a diet including hard brittle foods so they think that these doglike Kanaan's from twenty eight thousand five hundred years ago. These were not dogs yet. But these were Kanaan's that were wool fish and were hanging out around people and eating the scraps so looking at a wear pattern on the teeth. They were able to figure this out. The breaking open bones to get marrow would be perfect for for the For that where. Yeah so interesting I. I'm I'm gobsmacked. Twenty eight thousand five hundred year old. That's a long time ago to start that domestication process really have been with those dogs a long time back at us as and then water water water water everywhere right for not a drop to drink. Well there's a lot to drink. Thank goodness would have some problems. But water is weird. It's weird and we know it's weird because it has all these different ways of behaving that is that are very different from other liquids. And so we're always like why is waters a weird? It's got a normal structure and you'd think that it would just be looking at that. Oxygen Bond into that hydrogen in Brooklyn new all the way. It should the way that the molecules should bond to each other should dist- should demonstrate a very specific structure. When there's a lot of them bonded together however these behaviors that have been seen for a very long time centuries. Even it has been hypothesized that there's something else going on and researchers just publishing in the Journal of American Chemical Society have been looking at scattering data so light is scattered by these the molecular structure of water and they determined that instead of having a single internal structure. There's actually two so water has multiples and they've they're finding a couple of different peaks in the data. One of them is similar to ordinary liquids and corresponds to the oxygen to oxygen distance in the crystalline structure in the structure of the molecules. The other is an a la anomalous. Peak that arises from a tetrahedral water structure and this is what they're identifying the so called first sharp diffraction peak that's commonly observed in Silica and other tetrahedral liquids. So it has now. They're saying that water has this structure that is similar to other oxygen oxygen containing liquids and Tetrahedral in nature. Similar to some others. So it's got a couple of things going on and their findings. They say not only provide vital clues to settle this long standing controversy on the structure of water but also allow direct experimental access to the fraction of tetrahedral structures in liquid water water. It's weird water. Science is still going on still going on. You think we know a lot about water and we're still just figuring stuff out it's water. It's Amazing Yeah. Tell me about those dinosaur tracks on the ceiling. Where the fossilized trampoline? We got the the mystery surrounding the dinosaur footprints on the ceiling in central Queensland Australia and it's been solved some half century after it was initially discovered. Oddly though the mystery has nothing to do with how the footprints got on the sealant that they've figured out a long time ago it wasn't gravity defying Dino's but Two hundred million years of geology. That took care of that so the cave roof had been a lake sediment in which the footsteps were imprinted by dinosaurs. Walking by sand came in eventually this term the sandstone couple of hundred million years of geology. The sediment underneath eroded away and there was a cave where the roof was the sand which had filled the footprints of dinosaurs who had walked by a reverse footprint. It's it's a relief to stand. It's the stamp to relief on the ceiling so embossed but what was weird initially been identified as a four Liga theropod like kind of This is the University of Queensland. Anthony Ramilo Ramilia. Early examinations of the ceiling footprints suggested that some very curious dinosaur behaviors place. That A carnivorous a-rod walked off four. Legs you don't assume erects used its arms to walk and we didn't expect one of its earlier. Predator predatory relatives two hundred million years ago. Did either researchers wanted to determine if this dinosaur did move along using both feet and arms but couldn't get access to gave anymore so this site wasn't being allowed to be researched what they had some photographs from the nineteen fifties and they didn't show all the tracks that were reportedly there so Romeo then did what any paleontologist might do and have fun occasion to do. He went to the dentist dentist. Hey Matt apparently was Rosalyn Dick whose father happened to have found many dinosaur fossils over the years quoting Rosalyn Dick. Our Father was a geologist and reported on the Mount Morgan. Caves containing the dinosaur tracks in nineteen fifty four but scientists published account. He had high resolution photographs and detailed notebooks and my sister and I kept it all. We even had his dinosaur footprint plaster cast stored under my sister's Harry Potter cupboard in Sydney Harry Potter. But I think it said the coverage scarce Howard understand. Yeah so there's this there's this half-century-old cast of dinosaur footprints in their Harry Potter Cupboard. Our they turn it. They had this chance meeting. They had this conversation remedial Got All these documents. Archived them but there were archives. Sisters made Virtual Three d models of the dinosaur footprints and then gave all the stuff back to the family has already been doing amazing job. Caretake and revealed the answers in combination with their current understanding of dinosaurs. It told pretty clear. Cut Stories Remigio. This team for firstly concluded that all of the tracks were indeed foot impressions. None were handprints from a dinosaur. They also can tell from the splayed toes in the moderately logger middle digital footprints that these resemble two legged urban core dinosaur tracks not carnivores after all differing them from the prince that they were had been assumed to have been originally so rather than one nine or walking on all four dinosaurs walking by both plant eaters that walked by pithily along. The shore of Ancient Lake says so Fifth year old mystery. But thanks to a geologist who kept his notes kept. Us documents and his family that the appreciated that he had done this work and kept a two and a chance. Meeting US all came together. And since this just makes me feel very very bad about all of this stuff that I'm not preserving bring you joy if not that's right. Does it sparked joy? Digit is that. Tm It is it is just to keep the plaster cast when you're not using that it's taken up storage space. You could see somebody but the fact that Ed fellow it managed to get back into the right hands Of Somebody who is interested in solving this puzzle was fantastic. I think it's wonderful. That really. You know this. This makes me root for all the pack rats in the World Blair. What's your last story? This is a study on how to monitor healthy in animals in zoos but I actually brought it. Because I think there's something else going on here so under bring up real briefly so this is from University of South Australia and they studied animals at Adelaide. Zoo nine species of animals giant pandas African Lions Sumatran Tigers Batanes baboon call is Red Kangaroos Alpaca and the Little Blue Penguin. Which if you don't know what that looks like head to Google 'cause they're amazing But they were able to use high resolution digital cameras installed on a tripod in order to take an animal's pulse and check. It's breathing rate. So you can actually extract cardio pulmonary signals from the animals in a zoo setting without touching them which is awesome they definitely allows for consistent repeated recording of data on animal's health. But the thing that I wanted to mention here is that a couple of people with the story. I saw the Internet editorialized. This'll remove the need to anesthetize animals in zoos or ever put hands on them which is not true. If an animal has a toothache you can't have the first time you're touching them before an oral surgery so no matter what if you have animals living in captivity you're going to need to anesthetize them or get them used to being touched regularly by a human in order to be able to provide excellent care and this will be an awesome addition to that but it is not going to replace current veterinary care? The thing I think actually is really interesting about this. Is you'll be able to collect that data in camera traps on wild animals which will help us inform what correct resting heart rates and all these other things will be in animals that we have in captivity. So yeah disarray. Takes SOAPBOX MOMENT I? There's so much fish technology can do for us. And if we can minimize the amount of time that there is that The pudding hands on animals because they are wild animals unless they have you know even though they're in the zoo they're still wild animals and so if you can minimize stress. The dress that they go through with stuff like this. That's great but like you said it doesn't replace it and this is one of the failings of technology very often is that we're going to disrupt everything and we're going to disrupt keeping you could add add to veterinary care. That's amazing yes. Yeah but also I think this homing using implications for studying wild animals because you don't want to tranquilize wild animals if you can avoid it especially endangered ones so if you can take medical readings off of wild animals without touching them. That would be amazing. That would be very cool. Yeah Awesome Oh look at that one. Heartbeat his find. Oh look there's a Predator looking at heartbeat. It increased so much they're go- action and now. There's no heartbeat. Oh no what happened. Might storing circle of life. I suppose you've gotTa Brad WIFI connection. It's okay everybody heartbeats back. It's been refined as David attenborough will be quick to tell you. Everybody's gotta eat buddies. Gutty everybody thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you did. Share it with a friend. Shoutouts DEFATTA for his help with social media and show notes. Gaurd for manning the chat room. 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152: Consistent Discipline, Drive, and Sacrifice. The Ethos Of a Marine Raider, with Derek Herrera.

Jocko Podcast

2:23:01 hr | 3 years ago

152: Consistent Discipline, Drive, and Sacrifice. The Ethos Of a Marine Raider, with Derek Herrera.

"This is Jaakko podcast number one fifty two with echo Charles in me, Jaakko Willink beat evening echo. Good evening. These are men that would rather die. Then live with the shame that they didn't offer their last breath in service to the men to their left and to the right in battle. Each man was shaped through immense trials, personal, fortitude, and dedication, giving all he had to offer. At times when only the great pride of walking in the path least traveled was there to keep him company. Through constant discipline drive and sacrifice. They have risen to the top of their trade and embodied the ethos of the marine raider. A man who displays the very pinnacle of soldiery virtue. An unwavering loyalty. A man who will never quit or surrender. And who who will at all times? Stand ready to sacrifice whatever is needed to accomplish the mission. They stand as shiny examples of what our nation entrusts, its freedom and respect to. Nothing is more on Spiring. Then the look on a fellow operators face as they are surrounded by death. The casual smile of confidence as they acknowledge that things will be what they'll be. And if this is the way we die. Then let's do it. Right. And honor our legacy. When surrounded on all sides, we faced what seemed the inevitability of death. Not a man before you skipped a beat and their commitment. All their nothing. Death or glory. And those are some excerpts from a speech by marine raider gun resurgent, Brian see Jacqueline talking about a mission that he was on. I think in that speech. He did a great job of explaining the type of man that makes up the. Marine raiders, which is the Marine Corps component of special operations. And tonight, we are lucky enough to be sitting with one of those men. A United States Marine, a special operations raider and a true hero. Derek herrera? Derek? Welcome in. Thanks for coming on. They me. It's pleasure beer. It's awesome. To have you on here. Man. I I know we got hooked up through some old mutual friends. And I'm glad we did. I'm glad to sit down and be able to talk to you. And and hear a little bit about you and your life and everything that you've done and as usual, let's start in. Let's start in Little Rock, Arkansas. Sounds good. Where you're born. Right. I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas. What what what like what was the family doing in Little Rock, Arkansas? My father was a pilot in the air force. Okay. And so he was stationed there. And I was born there in nineteen Eighty-four. And then how long were you guys moving around all the time typical military family. Yes. Absolutely. So moved about every two or three years so lived in Arkansas for about two years, moved to Illinois. I think for your two and then Hundres for an overseas assignment Tegucigalpa Honduras late eighties, which was pretty interesting. Do you speak Spanish than no I I did for a while. And then try to replace it with Arabic and then punched, oh, I learned that it's not one of my guests. Let's just go with English and get a terp. Exactly. So no enough to be technically conversing. But but no so live there for a few years and then my dad moved to Dover Delaware position Dover air force base. He was a c one third NC five pilot and continued abouts around. But at that time in elementary school. My parents are divorced. So my family still lives in Delaware today. Also the opportunity to live in Colorado and a few other places. But at what at what age were you, and you got sort of like the military bug in your head. It was always a family business. So my grandfathers were both in the air force for twenty five years and twenty eight years, respectively, their enlisted in the air force, and my father was an air force for twenty two years in active duty, how did you get knocked get bit by the air force bug. Interesting. So go through high school. I'd always wanted to serve the military and Charlie to get interested in the surface academy option as well. So when I lived in Colorado, actually, I was with my dad when he was stationed at the four scattered on. The air force academy for seventh and eighth grade. And just always was drawn to Villanova work and Zayed's air force academy is that's a nice environment. I it's a really nice environments beautiful this, and yeah, yeah. And and your dad was working there. And that it seemed it was that not. I mean, when you say you were thinking about the the military caddies were you thinking of the air force academy as your primary or no. So after that experience in ninth grade, I moved back and live with my mom in high school in Delaware. And my senior year of high school had been playing lacrosse ups that point and had the opportunity to go and play for navy or try to walk on at least had decent relations with the coaches there. It's always applying to navy and air force. And also wanted to be a navy seal, actually. And so at that time I wanted to go to the naval academy and socio as I got in and got accepted. There stopped applying other places and just decided to go there right on the when did you visit the naval academy is you know, what was going on at the naval academy. The the only reason I ask that is. Because like I mean, I know I was not the most squared away kit. I was kind of a rebellious kid. And even though I love the military. I think if I would have gone to and I went to West Point when I was a little kid in that kinda got me fired up. You know, I think my dad took me to some kind of game there. I mean, I was really young like maybe seven or eight or something like that. But it was enough to make me go. Yeah. You know, I kinda. But I think if I saw when I was a little bit older. I don't know. I think I would have just said like, I don't know if I can put up with all that right now. You did you were like I'm bringing it. You know, what any seventeen year old young men doesn't always have all the right motivations. And you know, you have all the reasons why you go to a place like that. And what I found after I had gone there was that those reasons change once you're there, and so I entered in two thousand two shortly after September eleventh, it wasn't solely out of pitcher out of duty. And every in those sorts of things it was because I had already gotten in. I'd wanted to play lacrosse there. I was in love with my school sweetheart from Delaware. Who's now still my wife of almost thirteen years. And so those are the reasons why it initially decided to go out of that. How did you have in your high school sweetheart how did that play into want to go into the naval academy because you would be close by? Yeah. It was about an hour drive away on it. So she could come and see me on the weekend and that kinda stuff. So those were some of the initial reasons why went there in addition. All the the patriotic as well. But what I found when I was there and your challenge in your tested is those smaller superficial motivators often fadeaway, right? And what you're left with is. Those reasons why initially went here aren't gonna continue to put pull me through the rest of this trial. Right. And so the motivation, and the things that I learned from there at that point was the seniors that we'd watched in and we're led by who had just graduated. We're literally going forward and leading Brinson and sailors in battle, and we watch that on television with, you know, the invasion of rack, and the things went onto Afghantistan and really bought into the entire leadership philosophy and and wanted to be a part of that and wanted to be that and follow that example. So those are the reasons why I tried to stay and continue to move forward and become a military officer. I always lately I've been like apologizing to people because there's actually been. A pretty decent number of people that have joined the military because of listening to you know, all of us guys are bring on here talk about their experiences. And they just think that sounds pretty cool. And I I always say, hey, just don't be mad at me like the first two weeks that you're going through bootcamp or whenever don't be mad because it's just it's like, not it's going to be a shock to your system when you lose all that freedom that you've had, and, but I totally agree with you in the fact that like once you get through that initial shock, and you realize that there's a long term thing going on here. And you want to be part of it. That's yeah. That's that's that's awesome. And especially for you guys that came in after September eleventh because that's that's a I don't know if people can appreciate that what the differences between the pre September eleventh and post September eleventh. I mean pre-september eleventh. There was almost in fact, my first deployment to Iraq. My seal platoon had zero combat experience zero zero so no one had any combat experience at. All the most things that anyone had done at that point was doing ship boardings in the Persian Gulf, which are is not combat experience. It's just a it's just a fairly administrative operation. And now every single guy every single guy in the seal team's has comback Smits every single guy. Well, I mean, barring maybe a few outliers, but basically every single guy, you know, the Marine Corps look at the Marine Corps right now. I mean, it's been it's been what seventeen years of fighting and the combat experiences. Just so incredible. Compared to prior to September eleventh, which it was totally rare to have somebody at a seal team that was in the first Gulf war that was in one of the three platoons that got to do something. And and what they did, you know, God bless them. They were doing their duty. But it wasn't these big long sustained combat operations. Yeah. It's interesting. And I think that's something that I think about a lot today, especially when you talk about millennials and everything else and they get a bad rap. But everybody knows what they're joining the military to do like and some men and women run to the sound of the gun and some don't and so the people that continue to stay. There was no question of what what you were doing. If you signed up to join the Marine Corps or the seals right like, and then how did that selection process? You said you wanted to possibly go in the seal team's how did that work out that you didn't go in the names? That's gotta be a tough decision to make. Yeah. And sometimes it's made for you. Right. So naval academy is a very very humbling experience. And so as I came out of high school, I was kind of a very talented young athlete, and you know, was able to get in. But also from a small town and didn't have the humility and ownership needed to be a part of the teams and that became readily apparent you'll physically capable but just wasn't mature enough. Honestly. You know, didn't have that right mindset. So thoroughly humbled. And then as I was kind of, you know, come to the realization of what I wanted to do with my life. What what? Now, you know had a mentor of mine who I really respected who's a marine raider and said, you know, Derek like I can help you try to get in the Marine Corps. If you're still wanted to do that. And that's what you wanted to make a great officer. And you know, the Marine Corps that you see at the naval academy is not what is the reality right of what the fleet does. Because I'd had a really bad taste for marines there because all the marines ever drill instructors. And it was their job to mess with you. And so I was like man rains are dumb. I don't want to be like that. But the more I got to know the reality of what it was like in the fleet. And what what real marines were doing decided to pursue it and loved it. And it was the best thing for me. And did you get? So then you go from there to from the academy. Go to the basic school, correct? Yes, we go to basic school. We go for the six months of of the basic school and with every marine. Officer. So every marine officer ground air, everybody goes through that same process and then during that time, there's another selection, and so, you know, literally rank every choice you have from, you know, thanks supply logistics, finance at like one through twenty one if you're a ground officer, or if you're pilot obviously fled contract, you don't have to do that. But you're rank it, and then they do quality spread to term which you get. So in some cases, pre-nine eleven like, you said it was it was really hard and competitive to become an infantry officer. And then when we were there, there was still pretty competitive until about halfway through the course or just giving like a month out from the end of the course because manpower came down and was like, we're standing up a new infantry regiment, so Bom. Yeah. And so I think I would have gotten infantry regardless. But either way got what I wanted. It was my first choice, and that's exactly what I wanted to do and move forward. And and then Where'd you? Where'd you go from from there? Where'd you g saying Quantico? For three month course, called infantry. Officers course gets on. And it's amazing one of the best training experiences. There are so you learn weapon systems, you learn, you know, all all different kinds of basics me tactics. Everything you need to be able to lead a rifle platoon in, you know, every time you, I don't know if you you said, you listen to the to the podcast with Jim Webb on it. And like his first of all, and so then you went to a battalion, and then you started to work up. Yeah. And all that Jim Webb went from that school to Vietnam. And they like brought him out in the field and dropped him off and said there's your platoon over there. The guy you're replacing is no longer with us. And you're going to go take over that battalion. And he walked up on the side of a hill and said, hey, how you doing? I'm Lieutenant web. And here's what we're going to do. And then that night, they got a big firefight, and he called in combined arms and a man, but that's cool. Must be must be an awesome school. It's. Pretty amazing. And by the time we were there. We had really phenomenal leaders and instructors who were able to teach us because they were fresh off the battlefield in Iraq and rebel to teach us exactly what we were going to do. And so for me, I went into a long workup prior to deploying. But some of our guys were just like what happened to Jim Webb? No kidding. They had maybe a month or meeting their platoon at their their final exercise as their stepping off to to go to Iraq. And so that's joker. There was. Yeah. Is pretty interesting. And so for me I needed up going to new battalion that was standing up first battalion, ninth brains Walking Dead and had about a year roughly to work in my platoon into train before ended up deploying to Iraq. And that was just a standard ground Pounder infantry platoon, initially. Yes. Yeah. And so we were a standard rifle. Tune and then about two months before deployment based on the needs of the situation in. Ramadi? We're employing to the decision was made to actually break down into smaller training teams and advisory teams. And so my platoon of roughly forty marines and sailors turned into to twelve man's which I was in charge of woolen surgeon was in charge of another one. And so the reason they did that was because that was roughly the minimum size required to partner with effectively for these police stations. And so at that time. Due to the the successes of people like yourself, and the other people that had fought in Ramadi and turn the tide of the battle. We were consolidating, and basically, you know, withdrawing a lot of the combat power. And so we took over for two different infantry battalions of another army unit with just one infantry retired. So we had the entire AO area of operations for just one time. And so I had initially one police station that was partnered with you know, as a young Lieutenant in twelve man-team reported with in Iraqi Colonel and over eight hundred Iraqi police whereabouts were you whereas we were in a small neighborhood just south of camp Ramadi called to me. Okay. To me, all of two medium, we were managing with the police there because the police had done such a good job and taken over that, you know, we were in the backseat almost totally just to give everyone a tooth. This is two thousand and eight right Grasso. Who doesn't the major? Fighting kind of tapered off in in. Oh, seven I mean earlier seven they were pretty it was pretty calm. I know the guys that relieved us by the time, they left it was very common Ramadi, you know, obviously, there's still always going to be a threat. But like to me when we were there. There was a lot was really bad big gnarly into me when we were there. And it was it was a that was. That was awful some of those humvees. We'd get hit. And it would just be you know, they'd lose three four five guys at a shot. It was it was horrible. But you know, that's awesome. And that's I always try to explain to people that. That in Ramadi, we we actually won. And you know, you're proof of that. When you were over there. And you guys were I'm sure doing out civil affairs, and you know, that type of things that basically what you were doing. Yeah, we were just really just trying to turn it over to the police there. And so got to sit on, you know, the weekly sure rose and the council meetings and hang out and drink tea with the Colonel, and we try to try to operations with them and everything, but they locked the place down. I mean, literally by the time, we were there that, you know, triple-strand concertina wire and checkpoints all around the entire cities. They were controlling the flow of the prevented the flow of any, you know, any material or any fighters. So that than it had such a good job that honestly, I don't think anybody shot at us the entire deployment. We got a few different smaller eighties here and there at one major incident with a vehicle borne AD that killed a lot of Iraqi policemen. Unfortunately. But none of our Americans were involved. Gun gun into that time. But they were very well trained fighting force and fitted good work. How was it setting the expectations for your nineteen year old marines that was that were you know, on deployment with you that we're expecting to get some. Yeah. Yeah. That was interesting. So. You gotta you gotta deal with the missions that you're you're giving ride. And so the average nineteen year old Lance corporal eighteen year old Lance corporal at the time signed up to join to go fight that wasn't our mission. And so we were very cognizant of that. And over the year, the workup we were well educated too. So we had to calm with the teams we were turning over with over classified Email network in those sorts of things and able to find out exactly what we'd be going into. And so we were able to manage expectations appropriately. The and because of that we were we were successful. I think our teams performed well now, they're obviously frustrated at times, you know. No. I would have guys asked me that you know, guys. Once I was while I was back when I was still in because it's you know, how much supposed to get guys fired up to do this mission. When it's all we're going to be doing is drinking tea, and I'd say, listen, that's that's still your mission. And you have to do to the best ability and get the Iraqi police trained up as as best you can. And like you still have to just attack it with everything you've got regardless of what that mission is. And and that's hey, man. That's that's what that's what the nation is calling on you to do is that right there. And so go do to the best of your ability. And that's again, that's why I asked you that question because believe me, you get these young kids man, they don't want to have tea with anybody. I just wanna shoot their cell. Yeah, we're pretty fortunate in and we did do some interesting things as well. So because we had access and placement within the neighborhood to me what's gonna the a pretty tightly packed urban area. And a lot of people would come and go. And so at that time, we had great intelligence networks. They would able were able to help, you know, help us identify if somebody didn't belong and we're able to work with our or counterparts to to try to intervene before they able to causing any issues. And so we ended up for a few different rids, which you know, kept an get the guns motivated and things, but but it's kind of a good and bad thing. Right. That, you know, there's no no fight going on regards good in the sense that you know, the guys are safe and came back, and we're able to have a successful deployment. It's still do something really meaningful for the country. But you know. Not as as exciting as they would have wanted because that's what the eighteen year old signs up to join to go do. Yeah. Yeah. Volunteers to do. So I don't think too many guys walking that recruiter's office thinking about, you know, police actions or anything like that. But yeah, but that's but you have to set their expectations correctly. And sounds like you're able to do that. Now when you came home from that deployment, you you deployed again. But it was like even more even more on the humanitarian side. So what was that? Like, we'll tell us about that one stuff too. So before I had actually deployed again when I came back out such a good experience and learned about mar sock at that time, the read special operations command that did selection in between those two deployments. Oh selected. And so that time the the criteria to get into more sock. Was you had to do to deployments in so had to go back and train and then deploy again, so wait. So the selection like buds for mar sock. Is that what it is? Kind of it's it's we follow more of a green beret army model. So it's modeled very very similarly to the special forces assessment selection process. So how long is the the training? It's about six weeks. And so you go there, and you do, you know, the basic tasks Societa with selection, including, you know, hiking Lod and land out and psychological screenings is it more of like a weeding out or they actually training you for anything. Yeah. There's no I wouldn't say there's really much of training. It's a lot of critical thinking and problem solving and and very similar to this fast. As far as like, you know, here's problems that ethical problems set. Physical problems said teamwork and you're continually being evaluated, but that's just a basic evaluation to just get the shot at going to like, no go into our training course. And so then we have a seven month law. Okay. I got it. First thing that we go through is just selection to see if you're going to be able to go through the real course. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Buds doesn't do that. You just show up there. And that's what that's one of the reasons the attrition rates, so high maybe if we had them pre and actually I take that back. Now, they do have like a pre you go to like a pre buds and you get prepared for it. And all that. But so you go to that selection, and you get picked up. So you go through that thing, and they pick you up. But then you haven't done two deployments. They go. No. You still got to go into point again. And that deployment ends up being a humanitarian deployment for the most part. I did. Yeah. Definitely. So we did what was called the marine expeditionary unit and so on the marine expeditionary unit, there are rains and embarked aboard naval vessels. And so there's a battalion after battalion hearsay I too I did too MU our deployments back in the day. So I was out there with all all the boys. Getting after it. That's how I dealt a bunch of, you know, have a bunch of friends that were in the Marine Corps. In recon and force recon from that time from doing argh deployments. So. Yeah, we we got our shipboard time seals don't go. Don't really do that too much anymore. But no, no on. Yeah. And I think that's a good thing. It was tough. That was that was pretty tough, you know, talking about motivating your team to say motivate it through seven months of shaken hands and drinking, tea and Iraq. And now, it's hey, stay ready just train on a ship where. Yeah, you have no room. You don't have any real ability to train the gym holds six people, and there's three treadmills and you can't get on the flight deck for two hours a day kind of ship where you on. So I was on the L P D nineteen a Mesa Verde was nicer. It was newer. Shinzo is nice. And it was good because we were on the it was a smaller ship. So we weren't on the major big. The big laptop with a command and can so so it's pretty good. And and I had a great deployment because I was a company executive officer. And so I got to spend very little time on the ship, which is a lot of fun because get to go and plan all the training. And so you know, we were bouncing around doing different bilateral training missions with Israel, Jordan, Oman trained in Kuwait had some liberty time and cut. Her Bahrain all of the countries in the Middle East. So it was it was a really good experience. But you know, a lot of marines hate it because they were stuck on the ship. They didn't have the luxury that I did to go. Yeah. And get off the ship and and train. And so it was a it was interesting deployment. Yeah. Those shipboard deployments are very interesting. They were like we would do really dumb stuff. First of all when when I was on shipboard deployments. There was no internet. There was nothing. So we we was mailing. Yeah. And I mean, we were just dumb. And so we would watch we had, you know, a big box full of videotapes. You know, what those are? Yeah. Yes. Video cassettes because there was no whatever streaming that flicks. So we just had like outta we probably watch twenty movies five thousand times each so that era of movies. I'm very familiar with. But but yeah. And then it was like, you know, the big joke about seals is when you're on a ship is sleep eating lift. That's what it stands for is sleep eating left because that's all there is to do. And but we would. We would PT every day out on the flight deck or somewhere on the ship. And then we would try and set up where we'd go shoot skeet, we Braun pallets and pallets worth a skeet. So we'd go on the back of the fantail the ship and throw skeet and shoot it. Or we'd sit out there with grenade. Launchers and launch grenades at the the trash. So we tried make it fun. You know, but still there's twenty four hours in a day. And there's not a lot to do on a ship. So as very pretty boring, and and for all the listeners to the that was the the reality pre-nine eleven before there were all these deploying that was, you know, you're just so the the mission for the MU was just to to be prepared in a crisis is crisis response force, essentially, and so for us we actually had the opportunity to do one real world mission responding to their with quake in Haiti which was like, you said humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. And so. Right off the bat as we're getting underway that had happened. A couple of weeks before we were scheduled deploy. So we got on and went down and rebel to get involved and help out so just flew in with the company marines in our company was Tassell just helping provide an established security for a forward staging base logistics area for some of the food and water they were distributing. So how bad was it down there? Pretty terrible. It was really really bad. We flew in on a helicopter into the giant dirt field, which you know, we were bouncing see wire, and, you know, set on fire plants catches and everything just to to get everything squared away. But the level of poverty was pretty pretty striking for for us. I mean, we had marine STAN opposed and sitting guard and everything, and you know, you see four homeless kids between the eight and twelve sleeping with you know, everything they own and they're they're sharing one blanket. Outside the wire just hanging out. You know, we see like a fistfight a drag knockout drag down fistfight between two girls that are age whatever twelve and fourteen over a piece of wood because firewood is like old there is just don't have would. And so that was really really eye opening experience for us. And so what were you guys doing bringing watery bringing medical care and what we do it? So the UN was administering all the food and water. And so they basically dropped us off and typical Marine Corp fashion. They said, you know, pack lot. You'll only be in there for twenty four hours before we leave you and then advocate on the brother like, okay might be like forty eight. And by the time we land, and they're like, we're not sure when you're getting out so it's going to stand for about nine days, and you know, that a beg borrow and steal things there. But our job was just to literally make sure that you know, overnight that could drop off sixty shipping trailers ISO containers. Of food and water. And that people weren't gonna who distributed the food and water. It was primarily the UN force there. So I think at that time, it was a lot of I think it's the primary Brazilian, and so they would come in in the mornings load up and go and distributed, and I know that was different for a lot of other places. But for us that was that was the mission that we had and that was the kind of the way it worked. So this is a very short temporary stint. And then got back on the ships and steamed across the Atlantic. And then and then hit all bunch exercises and whatnot. Like you said over in the Gulf. Yeah. Yeah. So, unfortunately, we didn't get to do the exercise we'd planned for Israel because we're in Haiti instead, so went straight to think of his Jordan, we did a infinite moonlight. I think at that time in rebel do some basic patrolling with Jordanian soldiers that was kind of cool actually because gnarliest Jordan, just a amazing country to be in. But those people who were trained with were some of the same units that we're going to fight in Afghanistan. Okay. And so the Jordanians provided a good contingent of forces to go go forward and Afghanistan. So that was that was phone get into work with those guys in a train with those guys. And then we trained with Omani soldiers. And that was pretty interesting as well. The thing we learned which is really interesting was actual Omanis. There's not really small population. So they have the at least the units we were working with had some some concepts from Pakistan, essentially Baluchistan. And so the officers spoke Arabic, and they were all Monte. But the rest of the platoon was all Baluchi and spoke Baluchi. And so that was kinda interesting to see how that worked but very capable force. Had a good time Nokia fight with those guys. And so yeah. Modern day. Con scripts. Yeah, they all volunteer. I mean, they they I guess taking the concert might be the right word. They'll volunteer to be there. And so we talked to garp tune sergeant he's like, hey, so it's like a way money and get a better life for themselves. So he's like the deal is I've been here for twenty years. I love doing this job in it will send money home back to family and make it to thirty. They'll let me bring my family over here. So inside his family in twenty years, but he's trying to better their lawn. Life by going forward to you know, live and fight for another country. You can't can't fault them for that. Like. All right. So you get home you get home from that deployment. And now it's time to go to what's the what's the long course of mar sock. What's out, of course, called it's called individual, training course. And so it is pretty similar to other special forces training courses. So where is it? It's in North Carolina Oregon Camp Lejeune, and so we have a small portion of the base there. Now, we're established the pretty sizable compound. And so I'd say pleaded ninety percent of the marine special operations command is headquartered there, and then they have a small west coast contingent out your competiton, and so the entire school houses there, and that's where every operator goes through training. And how long does that course, it's about seven to eight months, and what are you doing in? That course, so that is of course, that encompasses all of the basic fundamentals required to join a team to be an operator. So we do the first phase is some physical training. And you know, you do some basic fire supports medical training. You do your sear your full spectrum sere training there. Then you move into some basic SR and patrolling special reconnaissance, and basic, you know, reconnaissance skills, our guys this. So this isn't really a selection course, then I mean, you know, this is a training course. But but like, but it's pretty high stakes to in Gaza, quitting her quit. Yeah. Plenty guys quit real. It's not easy. So we kind of it just it the way, you know, it just seems like if someone was a marine already, and then they made it through that. First course. And now they show up at this course, it seems like that's that's a lot of hoops to jump through to get to there. And then quit that seems kind of a little bit crazy. Yeah. Well. They they push hard drive. The try to break. What what is it like the same? Like, the buds type stuff be called be wet be tired. Be measurable. No sleep is just get. So that. Yeah. For the most part. Kind of a mix of buds and s q t probably yes together. And so one of the things that they were able to do with within mar sock is to try to take lessons learned invest practices from all of the other services. And so whether it was, you know, the, Q course or buds or s q t or OTC or anything else than structure's kind of looked at what was going on in other courses and looked at the requirement for marine raiders coming out the backside 'cause some of those guys will graduate, and we had guys deploy within a month or two later on hot fills out to go on Brits, do they do. They put you through like another like crucible type scenario. Yeah. So it was kinda mix called raider spirit. And that's that's sounds real fun. That's one of those things like it get you a little bit that raider spirit. Come and get some. Yeah. Yeah. It's a varying length dependent on the class and the size and the performance, but at that point you're trained in your infant package, your basic small boat, handling you're trained in basic reconnaissance. And in those principles all your coms and everything else. So it's basically a full full mission profile for including an emphasis insert, which for us was think like January get so maybe so. And then same thing. You know? Limited sleep limited water, limited food type thing. So pretty pretty intense. Yeah. It just seems like a super will burnt the Marine Corps squared away. And that's this whole thing. Sounds like a squared away way to do this. Because if you look at buds. Union have real guns. Most of buds. You don't even have rifles. You're carrying your literally carrying a boat paddle. Did they kind of make that your weapon because you can't lose it? And you can't put it down all the stuff, but it's a boat paddle. I mean, you're just you you're so you just so young and untrained, you know, used to have no skills. And so there's no it's just and they teach you know, when you get to land more for you teach. You learn some basic dieting, but the diving that you learn is just so. So. Just easy like looking back on. It's just the easiest possible things you could possibly do diving and same thing with the land warfare pieces. Like, they're telling you. Hey, walk this far. And like they're telling you exactly where to go. It's not even it's barely the you do land now, but it's barely land now. And it's and it's good because you know, it weeds out a lot of people. But then you have to go through like you said ask you which comes afterwards. And that's where we start learning. Okay. This is real land Nabet this is real shooting. Okay. This is, you know, actual room entries, and then you get to seal team where you go through more training. But it seems like it. That's why I was kind of. I guess I was kinda surprised that guys that had been through enough stuff already would get to that. And still be like, you know, I don't want to do this. That seems crazy to me. Yeah. That's a gut check. I mean, and that's one of the things that is interesting buds does a good job of weeding people out front, and so you have a pretty high quality care, you know, as far as the intangibles the ethical and character principles and then for us. You know, it's kind of I would say more on a sustained. Stained beat down. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, we started we started the course with like fifty or sixty guys and thirteen of the original guys finished eating. That's changed a lot since then. So we grown up a lot since then. And and just like buds has right. Oh, yeah. I bet back today. Those those new mar sock instructors like no one's getting through horse. Yeah. Rightfully so. But the cool thing about it. No. I see both sides of the token, but the cool thing about analogy, but we want more we need more. We don't wanna lower the standards. So why don't we just be smarter about it? Right. Like if we do a better job of selecting guys or get more guys starting or whatever else. Right. Like, if the output is a trained operator, and we need need these guys than wizardy of that training that you thought was hard. Yeah. A lot of was there anything that were in jeopardy on where you yes. Same thing. Right. So yeah. Naval academy was humbling being the Marine Corps has been humbling. And at that point. I was a pretty humble guy. And so I did really well throughout the majority of training. And so in the last phase off feeling good about yourself. I was okay. But I said, you know, so we we're doing the unconventional warfare package. Very similar to very similar with the greenberg's new with their final, exercise and info G force and everything else. And so was doing well, and then had a bad meeting where somebody thought I came off a little bit arrogant with our g force commander and everything it's then they just kind of, you know, put the spotlight on me. And you know, put me put me on the bubble right because you fail anything and you're done. And so there that was one of the scarier times. Right. Because I'd committed years of my life to be able to be doing this successfully. And then in a moment if I can't figure out how to make this guy like me or this g force commander. You know, execute this mission with me like I'm on the bubble. Right. I think you know, some of its instructors mess around. But they're they're just testing. You're right. Like, see how are you going? Deal with failure. Right. Because if you've been successful thus far in a good number of things. Let's push him beyond his limits, break them and see what happens. Right. And and I don't know if that was exactly the case, I didn't see behind the curtain, but I served I failed something called pool competency, and I failed pool competency, which is they put they put your dive rig on which is an old school dive, rare with with inhalation and execution tube. And it's this this old thing from like, the sixties or seventies or something Aqualung, and you have to do all this stuff that they tell you to do underwater. And they're they're slapping you around and smashing you and ripping your mask off and risk ripping regulator out and all this stuff, and you have to stay calm, and you have to go through all these procedures. And when I went through it was a thirty minute evolution and the first time. I did it my instructor who ended up working for me in the future. He was a he was a first cross at the time. But he became a one officer. A ubt Vietnam guy. Awesome guy, but he failed me and. Yeah. So I failed in the years later. I talked to when I was like, hey, you remember put me through progress? It. Yeah. It was just messing with you. And I'm like, though, you almost ruined my life forty talk while you're just mad because ninety you do find next time what same thing like it was a test of. Let's just see how this guy does. But what we did over the weekend. I mean, a couple of buddies that were that had also failed. We went in the dip tank, which was just a square metal box, and that was filled with water, and we pool comped each other this. I don't even I can't even believe we did this. It was probably the most unsafe thing. I've I did or one of the top unsafe things. I did was we drowned each other in trashed each other getting ready, and we did it to over and over again until we were like there's no way we're gonna fail. And so that's what we did. Like, there's four of us or something you spent the weekend in the I don't even I can't even believe they let us do that. They just gave us dive gear and said, oh, you're just going to play with dive. You're cool. Wearing the dip tank linked idiots different time. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But it is on bling. And it's one of those things y-, you know, there's no worse feeling for me than that feeling of like, oh, if I fail this this is this is like my whole life dream done and destroyed so yeah, they make they play those. They play those games with you yet. I think they have to play those games with you because you're gonna fail in other situations. Once you get to the to the teams, you know, you want it you do want to see how people are going to do with failure. And they would do things like that in buds where they would there would be seven people that that would pass a swim that everyone is a failure. And they do, you know, tell us needle they'd they line us all up and make every single make a hundred guys sign a Chit that we were lose your failures on the swim. And if they if we fail again, we're going to be dropping training. I don't think that was actually true. I don't know. But it did looking back at the time. I believe time was like, oh my God. So. Oh, they do. Good job of that psychological warfare on you you in that training. Yes. Before that too that, you know, another pretty intense phase. So we do the CQ be initial. He could be phase. And prior to that to that one was same thing. Those pretty high stakes pretty high high stress, did you mess up. No. I I was. I was okay there. Yeah. I didn't have any issues but throwing rounds fee shoot eighty hostages. Nah. I shot a hostage one time. Yeah. I shot a just in training. But yeah, obviously just in training. But this guy they had a target setup. You know, those those they look like watercolor painting targets that sort of different characters, and you could take little you could take the person's hand, and you could paste over like a pistol or a cellphone or a badge or a whatever. So I come into this room, and it's it's kinda dusk. And this was this was back in the day. So we didn't even use night vision. This is just like date, you know, we just shooting with our eyes. A regular eyesight, and I come in. And there's a guy, and I look at his hands, and I see like a dark pipe pointed at me, and I drilled this dude, you know, to to the chess wanted. And we get done to run and the instructor he comes out. And he's he's holding the target in his hands. And he's like he's like, hey Jaakko look at this. And I was like check. And he goes, what do you see? And and what it was was. It was allegedly was a rolled up newspaper that he was pointing at the at the at you, you know, at me, and it looked like other barrel of a gun. And I I looked at the instructor was like, hey, bro. If I come into a room in someone's doing that they're gonna die. I'm sorry. You can't do that. Because the guy looks all jacked he's this guy with the green shirt, I'm gonna find one of these in post it because I'm sure you can find them. It's the guy with the green shirt super thick neck and looks all hostile and aggressive, and he's pointing this pipe it me, and I drove him and I got in trouble. That was my, you know, headed whatever had to run a tire or something like that. But that was when I was in the teams that was, you know, pay. Yeah. Horrible. Then you do, you know, even even though I was like, hey, I'll do that anyways. But inside, and, you know, even though I was like man that you know, you gotta be better than that. And that was that was jacked up from me to do that. And so I had to check hands more carefully and be more patient intake in that shop to make sure what I'm looking at is one. I'm looking at so. Yeah failure is a good teacher. And it's very humbling and then. So do you guys have like a full on graduation ceremony from that? You get hin. Do you get that that new raider? Now, we didn't have one at the time. So we've we've grown up we weren't called raiders, and we didn't have a pin. So we just got a little certificate and handshake and send on early. And then you went to where and then I was a signed to capitol to California. So I moved out here with my wife and join first marine raider battalion. And and that was your first time being out at Pendleton. Correct. You, hey, like Pendleton love it. That's awesome. Still live here didn't make it far even though my wife's family all her family still in Delaware. So we we love it here. Hope to never lose its Pendleton is is awesome training ground. I mean, really awesome training ground. Yes. Yeah. It's a great great place a train. We did a lot of our training there and typical places out in the desert in Alex quarter went and couple of the places. But yeah, it's it's good. And it's massive I had no idea. How big it was. But just huge. And then how long was that workup for we had arrived in August? And it was in the the three shop in the operation section before. I went to a team for about two months. And then we deployed in may. So about nine months that I was with the team they had on their the workup cycle. I think was probably similar to, you know, with the seal teams have done where it's you know, you come back you go back and immediately guys are shocking out to schools individual training and then come back to collective training. And then deploy. So I got in there. Right win ever trickling back in from a lot of the individual schools that they were going to. And then how big is the team that you take over? We had twenty total with attachments. And so each team is about fourteen are not about exactly fourteen there's, you know, small headquarters element and then to form in its to Corman. No medics, and and then we plus it up with or Intel assets and UD and gotten country got some dog handlers on their stuff as well with our team. And then and that Renee got in country. This is this is you you deployed to Afghanistan. Yes. And now, it's two thousand twelve crafty. I two thousand twelve so I'd gotten out of training two thousand eleven and then deployed in may two thousand twelve. And then what was that when you were going into that deployment? What was the atmosphere in Afghanistan at that time the atmosphere was different depending upon the region? You're in very very different. So where we were going was highly Connecticut, bad guys run around all over the place just killer be killed and focusing a lot on security and combat operations. And so there were two mission sets that are our teams would would perform either they would be doing a program called village stability operations, which is what we were doing where they would be assigned to a commando conduct battalion, which is more like Afghanistan's version of, you know, ranger regiment or anything else. And so when we deployed deployed with the company, so we had three marine teams one of our teams took over a commando mission. And the other two were doing village stability operations. And then as we deployed we took over a couple of seal units and. Green Bay team as well that reported to our our company headquarters as well. So specifically for our team where we went we were in very very primitive rural area in the middle of the Helmand province retina green zone. And so the green zone means something different Afghantistan than it did in Iraq green zone in Iraq was an area in Baghdad. Actually that was that was controlled and safe and and all good to go for Americans. And there was you know, other people living there and whatnot Brasilia's safe zone and the green zone in Afghanistan is not that. No. So the green zone in Afghanistan literally is due to vegetation. And so the green zone Afghantistan is mostly area or desert climate, and there's very little green areas or good farmland, essentially. And I'm thinking was in the sixties. I think it was a the USA. Eight or another International Development Agency, built another canal off of the Helmand river, and so in between those two waterways was good farmland because farmers there would cut out canals and everything else to grow crops in. So this was like one of the only green areas in the entire country. That's what they they mean have been the Afghanstan version of the green zone, and since vegetation is also cover and concealment for fighters for any fighters. And so where we were it was it was tough guys would use those canals sneak up, and it was very undulating or hilly terrain. I would consider and when I talked try to explain it to most people to consider a more more similar to trench warfare than just desert open warfare where you can see other people people were very able to especially with some of the urban structures there as well. Some buyers will be able to creep up. And and you know, try. The drop on you and get close to your position. So these so you doing VSO the village stability operations, and what did what did kind of what was your standard VSO mission? Look like what was that deal? So for the VSO mission with three lines of effort. So the first was to establish security and the second was to try to revive economic development. And then the third was to linked political government. So the three lines of effort security development, governance for political governments. Could really focus on economic development and political governance if the villagers didn't have security, and so one of the first things that we did. And we took over a pretty capable force because people have been doing this mission a lot before us in this region. They would train and equip a small police force called the Afghan local police, and so that idea was was if you take people in these small communities that are from there. Train them pay them too broad security that they would be more effective at providing security than any Americans would be which is in most cases, very true. And so we took over this site, and we had about probably one hundred or more Afghans that run our payrolls to help go and provide security for the area. And so that was primarily what we focused on because we were still trying to train them get them to a place where they could security of themselves. There was this multi multiple villages in like an area that you're that you're providing security for that these Afghans are providing security, or is it like one big, you know, like larger village for us. It was just one village. And it wasn't even. I mean, it wasn't even that big. Honestly. So we literally as far as operational areas and things I think ours was a few kilometers max. So we were. Yeah. Because per focused where we were was. Essentially minefield, we're right in the middle of this this contested region prime poppy growing area, so Taliban wanted and the the farmers would grow poppy. And that was their economic, you know, those are there payday their paychecks. And so very complex problem to try to change. And so we suited you really live in the villages. Did you live there? So you took over some houses, or whatever and you set up your your base of operations, and you lived there, essentially, I we took basically. We weren't able to really take over any houses 'cause all the houses that run occupied world full of eighties. So the teepee invasive what we had done at that time was wherever we were going to set up. We would bulldoze into build structures on our own Esco barriers. But it was very primitive yet. No, no running water just living in a dust bowl, essentially, get some towers off for security, and then I was pretty much it send there's how many of you out in this remote location. We ended up having to sites and so we had mutually supporting positions within our team. And I think we had. Probably sixty Americans. So we had our twenty guys. And then we have she had a trailer platoon of army infantry guys out there as well. And so they would help provide security and Saint post and allow us to go out and do missions. So now you get into doing missions. And what does that look like you're going out, you you you have to take people you have to move people you have to go and meet people like what was the kind of standard. When you when you say mission to execute from those little forward operating bases. What was kind of the standard mission that you would execute? Yes. So the the missions varied, but for the most part, and I was only there for about two months before I got injured and came back, but the team we took over for done really good job. And they had some very challenging human dynamics within the AO. They're gonna tax multiple times a day. So. So when we got there, we tried to do whatever we could to to proactively prevent that from happening. And so the standard practice that. We would do is we'd go outside ambush patrols try to find guys who are coming to kill us kill them before they got us. So to do that is not an insignificant task, especially when you're going through a minefield. And so the TDP's that we kind of used at that time was we would go into the cover of darkness which allow us time to slowly methodically. Get to wherever we wanted to go takeover a compound or building. And then just stay there all day and observance see what happened and then the next night usually X Ville under the cover of darkness again in the meters would be that was because a lot of the ID's that were out and set up. Were in positions where there are just so many of them and they're in positions that were advantages, and it would be observed by the enemy and so if. An entire compound had a few different ideas in it. And we started to realize that hey, we we can't go in these compounds or we can't go near them. Because if there's nobody in it most of the time, they have IEP's the enemy within wait until we were in a position and just fire. Few shots at us trying to drive us into those musicians and things and so just in general. We just preferred operate at night because they didn't have night vision capabilities that weren't able to shoot at us at night, and we would have to take our time and move very slowly and methodically through the threat that we encountered and so that's how you're able to try to mitigate that. And that was you know, how we would usually cannot those missions. And then there how often would you actually get contact what you out up in an ambush possession. I think almost almost a hundred percent of the time felt like that at least. And so we wouldn't go out every day. Sweet. Stagger. These and obviously with a operational. You know, the number of people that we had we're trying to maximize the bang for a buck, and and to be very efficient with that. While also running other operations and trying to build the police force other types of, you know, upper lines of operation, and so we'd go probably for few days. This is a very aggressive VS omission. I mean this. Than I was thinking the term that was thrown around by some of the guys was smashmouth VSO. So if you look at the entire landscape of Afghanistan from the highest levels of of command and everything they were, you know, green yellow and red areas, and if you look at that based on enemy activity or friendliness to coalition forces, the traditional model for visa was hey, put them in yellow areas that you know, we're likely to be successful. We can make some progress not in red areas, right? Where people will just fight to the death. And there's no chance of this happening. And so different people have different thoughts of what's green yellow and red. And so. We ended up there and that was our mission, and we try to make the most of it. So, but yeah, very different. And so that and we even had teams other marines were out in the west and Herat province, which was very different than the Helmand province. And so on her province guys are, you know, walk around with just a pistol and driving on motorbikes, and you know, drinking tea and hanging out no helmets like not getting shot at very very very different experience than than where we were. And that that was great because we're just glad different places of, you know, different portions of the country were successful with that mission set, and I think too large remote of the special operations units that conduct that mission. We're very successful in for us. You know, it's debatable. How successful we were. But that was a very different environment. Yeah. I know there were guys that were going over to do it. And they would ask me about, you know, of what do you think of this? We're going to do this village ability thing, and I was like, oh, you're going to go out in the middle of you know, Indian. Country with your platoon that's going to be an awesome mission. Like, it's going to be great go get some go. Do do. Good job. I mean, that's just a it's a cool mission. It's just to be out there on your own. I mean how much oversight? Did you have out there? Not much have you made? And that was that was one of the coolest things having the freedom to go and execute, and so you know, whether or not it was destined for success based on what the situation was. We were going to do the best we could to to make it success. And we had a lot of resources to do that. Whether it was, you know, the intelligence assets that we had at our disposal. You know, as a captain in the Marine Corps had assets that were like more than a new commander, right and Cynthia forecasts and air support or are we was a bit restrictive for conventional forces and for us. You know, we were able to as long as we met certain criteria. And and you know, able to justify we're able to drop casts where we needed to you know, which was very different. And so we did the best Recode and made the most of it. And then you're a couple months into deployment. And that's when you got that's when you got wounded or what? What happened on that op? Yeah. So we're starting to have some successes with the security bubble that we were establishing. And so we push a little bit further from our base to try to see where we thought there would be enemy activity. And so we went about think, maybe a click and a half one foot from her base and found ourselves in Indian country, essentially, so we occupied a compound undercover darkness and shortly after the sun rose immediately started seeing heavy activity around us and started getting engaged from multiple directions with with different weapons systems. And so. Shortly after that happened there were three marines in on the rooftop of the compound that we're in with about Some Marines down surrounded protect urging Jimmy protected by the rest of the compound wall. So most of the construction Afghanistan is mud mud huts in despite not having running water electricity or anything they were able to build these massive fortifications around each house. And so the walls would protect you. But you can't see anything. So you also don't have situational awareness on what's going on. So as a commander as leader of the patrol swapped out with Brian Jacqueline who was on the rooftop at that time to try to get awareness, and so started observing different things going on. And you know, as those up their enemy fighter head engage us from our flank, and so myself and Miller marine on the rooftop were shot third marine was able to roll off without getting shot. And so media bullet went into. To my shoulder into my spine. So he's felt a pulsing sensation among back and kind of slumped over saw Ricky who is the sergeant to my left. He had been shot through the neck and was face down on the rooftop try to triage myself, pick myself up and realize another blow in chess was working. And so we got on the radio Kalma guys told him that I'd been hit and that Ricky been hit and this spring into action. And so took the initiative to. Return fire gained fire superiority and triage us and continue to fight. How long did that last? There's a long time. You're out there in the middle of nowhere. And you're in a really hostile situation. How long did it take to get assets? There. As such we're pretty timely, but it was also very chaotic situation. So at that time we had ten Americans out on the mission. We'd ten of our Afghan partners force with us. And so now we're down to eight Americans to are critically wounded. We'd pull guns off the line. Well to treat us or meta community started treating rookie, and I another marine surgery muse well, set loose six Brian Jacqueline. Immediately got on the radio and started to to try to call in for medevac in air support at that same moment Murphy's law kicked in as well. And the second tenant came down source that coming down. So we're now Brian was relaying through our main position all the information that was going on. And so became pretty chaotic and took about think thirty minutes or so before the medevac helicopter. Able to come in and get us out. And and how bad what was that? What was the other guy's name? That was hit Ricky. Yeah. And so he got shot in the neck like what what was that all about? Yeah. I mean, we thought he was dead. Yeah. And turns out he was very very very lucky. So missed everything important in his neck, MRs windpipe, Mr. spine. He was unconscious for awhile. And we were both off the rooftop, and or medic started working on him try and bring him back to life while another marine was trying to keep me stable and so. Put some click lot and different clotting agents and his neck and all of a sudden Rick woke up and like zombie moan. And it was like it was like blinking and stuff and so turned off on. And luckily today, he's you know, he's left the service, but he just he's about to graduate from college. He's into body building. And you know, he's doing great. She's awesome. And so at that time, he was pretty stable, and I started taking a little bit of a turn for the worse. Because of that went on my shoulder. It also kind of pumps you're one of my lungs and says have blood pooling in my the left side of my chest cavity. And so guys were trying to get us others you conscious. I was. Yeah. Yeah. For the most part until towards towards the end where I started to to fade a little bit. And then did you did you just did you pass out? They hit you with morphine. Would they would they do? I didn't get any drugs until I don't think I got an drugs until I got on the helicopter. And then while it was on the helicopter passed out woke up in a hospital in Afghanistan. But I do remember the event and so remember making the radio call to my teammates swells on the rooftop member. Getting pulled down remember talking to her fees. One of the marines who is working on me talking them through a needle d-. As is give me a needle trying to tell him and talk to them and stuff. And he said, you know, he said some size. Said some interesting things while it was there to you know, so just to give people a little bit of a visual on that a needle decompression is when you're when somebody's gonna take a what like a fourteen gauge needle or something like that. And jam it in between your ribs into your lung cavity to allow some pressure out that you had to talk him through that he knew what he was doing. But I was just trying to encourage them in different things. And so at that time was also trying to relay information to help them find the bad guys. And it was on who they were trying to return fire for or against. And so it was talking them on Trent talk them on initially. And then after that, it was just trying to talk to him to make sure make you know, and then the helicopters sat down in compound. No. They couldn't. So that was a big challenge in. So what happened and what Brian Jacqueline was awarded the navy cross for a lot of other guys who always their lives to save. Ours. Did was they had to call in helicopters out onto an open field despite being under fire, and so the prep area with as much support as they could called in the bird the bird landed Brian blew a breach in the the compound wall through smoke. And then literally what he said was if you get hit on the way to the chopper jump in follow me and lead the way and without hesitation the other guys cared us out into the open and not a small guy, you know, two hundred pounds of barrell chested freedom-fighter dislike most of us with a lot of a lot of kid onto. And so those guys carrying us out there, we're in a police litter and so to carry us it takes four guys, and they can't return fire that they can't pick up their weapons. Engage the enemy. So they're totally exposed and without hesitation ran out there doing the bullet dance dodge bullets trying to get us on the bird and get us out of there. And I'm alive today because of that, and so that for me what I tell people when I talk about this is is one of the best days of my life. And so knows one of the worst as my life, too because you know, suffered this spinal cord injury and was paralyzed from the chest down for however long that maybe but was one of the best as my life because a team that I was fortunate enough to lead a team that I was fortunate enough to be a part of display the highest levels of of selflessness and sacrifice and courage on the battlefield just to witness that and to be a part of that, you know, something I'll never forget something I'll be proud of for the rest of my life. So. Yeah. And if in case anyone missed it the opening for this was actually those are those are gunnery sergeant Jacqueline's words that he that he gave during a speech. And I thought they were just so they were just awesome words. So I figured I'd share them with some people. Then obviously the rest of the guys, you know, bunch of kick ass guys that like you said, I mean, just incredible heroism across the board from your from your team. You now. And by the way, and actually and Jacqueline mentioned this in his speech as well. There was some there are some seals. Like, you said, I guess it was the guys that were under the guys from seal team three that that came in. And I actually talked to one of those guys today because I knew you know, because you were coming on. And I just it was I talked to was Dan Crenshaw. And and I told them, you know, I said ham I'm talking to Derrick today, and he's a call. That's awesome. And it was just cool. It was just cool to hear the praise coming from Jacqueline. And and that's exactly the same thing that the Dan Crenshaw said he's like, yeah. Those guys were awesome. I mean, that's that's he he, you know, I said I you were on that mission. Right. And he goes he goes, he goes, those guys were awesome. That that's what he said. And it was called the here Jacqueline saying the same thing. And a lot of times people get. I guess people get caught up in whatever it is interservice rivalry. And I actually literally have zero of that I especially after my deployment to Ramadi. I have zero interservice rivalry of any kind. Like if you're on the battlefield and you have an American flag on your uniform. You are my brother, and it was awesome to hear that feedback from both those guys. You you wake up in hospital, and you're an Afghan year. Now hospital Afghanistan. Yep. Yeah. Wake up and camp bastion doctors air, and he's like it captain you got shot, and you you know, you paralyze, and you may never walk again. Much kinda stare at them and say. Yeah. I know. Can I have this awkward stare off? Like, hey. And be telling my wife yet. He's like, no. He's got stairs. I mean, like go. Give me a goddamn phone. Oh, okay. Got it. And so brings over the phone, and I wake my wife up in the middle of the night. You know? So you. I knew I knew that. That was the case literally the second. I got shot, you know, because I tried to pick myself up and. It's hard to understand if you you have never experienced it. But you know, if just your body is numb and nothing works. Then, you know, you know, and so like totally knew that that was the case and didn't know how long it will last. But I knew that was what the issue was. And so call my wife and woke her up told her, you know, hey been shot. Paralyzing may never walk again. I'm coming up. And so that was pretty tough time and pre phone to phone call to make. But through it, all we're just really happy that I was able to make the phone call, you know, 'cause a lot of guys don't get do that. And so. Then moved on. Gutty back to Germany spent a couple of days there. They didn't do anything for my condition. Just kind of waited transport back to Bethesda were checked in and my wife and family, and they sorta do some other surgeries remove the bullet for my spine and some other other things and so or gods at that time to were. The they stayed put in the compound and fought for the rest of the day repelled a few different enemy assaults. And then as you mentioned the seal team that had come into be quick reactionary force for them came in at now and Jacqueline did the turnover with them there came into kind of reinforce area and do some some battle damage assessment. And then that's when Dan had gotten injured. And so so the guy's got now, you know, the rest of our guys made it out of that day without without any further injuries. And so was does too. And started markup process there with with my wife on my side and moving forward, and that recovery process is I heard you saying one of your out of their videos that you have out there. You're talking about the new normal. Like, okay. This is the new normal. This is what it is. And I'm going forward. Yeah. Yeah. And the doctors were pretty noncommittal. So when I was there they didn't say you'll never walk again. They didn't say, you know, what are you can't enter can't do they said, you know, hey, spinal cord injury. It's very severe. It's you know, it's a big deal. But if you're a cover function, you know, the research shows that it might happen in the first two years most likely, and so that was good in some ways and bad in other ways. It was good because it left me the opportunity to change, you know, to control my mindset and to say like so while I'm gonna get up in six weeks and go run a marathon or or whatever the challenge with that though was that was a little. A bit. That was good for me to get through those initial stages, but it was also naive of me to not let the reality sinking. And so, you know, when that didn't happen in six weeks, and I didn't walk and I wasn't gaining control or function of anything below much. That's when it started to get real like was really challenging for me to deal with because I didn't you know, it was out of my control the level of you know, the permanence of my injury. And then what what was there anything that helped you get through that transition of when you all of a sudden six weeks goes by and you you the reality starts to hit you that made you say, okay. Here's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. It's was bad for about. I think probably I four to six months. And the reason why we're probably the lowest point actually definitely lowest point was August tenth of two thousand twelve about two months after I got injured. I transferred to a facility in Tampa Florida because that was a major spinal cord injury clinic. And so the military DOD side doesn't have spinal cord injury recovery. They have it all at the VA. So I was just me in the VA with my wife, we relocated there and on that day. Actually that was the day that three other marines in our company for in different team were killed in an insider attack in saying so kept Matthew Manoukian gunnery sergeant Ryan jet and science got mode role three guys that weren't in my team. But they were friends of mine that were killed and we're coming home. And so it was hard to deal with that it was hard because I was still in the hospital and go to any of the funerals, and that it was continued to be hard after that. Because it just reinforced the. Fact that my guys route they're vulnerable, and I wasn't there lead them and that was my job. And I felt like it was failing them every day, you know. And so all my wife was there with me throughout this recovery process was lonely. You know, everything you do in the military's and teams you're always from day one camp, you have a buddy for everything. And now, this is the first time in the military when a Malone, and you know, without any control over the outcome of what would happen to my guys. And so. That was tough. That was like definitely definitely the toughest part of the recovery process. And so luckily, I was able to fly back to California and see them touchdown in December all the guys made it back safe and sound. And then that was really when I was able to start to put the pieces back together and go forward and move on with my life. What did that look like picking up the pieces and put them back together? And the reason I'm asking you. This is just because you know, I'm looking at where you're at right now. And if there's any buddy that could be listening that could say, okay, lemme hear what he did. So I can emulate that. Yeah. The the key things. There's there's a couple of things that I did that. I think are I learned so much stuff that you've you've talked about before and one is mission in purpose, and so recovering in a hospital sitting there by yourself. Wasn't the mission that that I signed up for? And so as soon as I possibly could I was back at work. And so I was back in the section in January as a future operations officer trying to do PowerPoint slides and all the other stuff that you know, that officers are are test to do. And it was great because nobody else wanted to do that that stuff. So I was happy to take it on and do it. And so being around the team providing something meaningful for them and having an impact was more import- from my psyche than anything else. Other two things I've kind of looked at we're like very stoic philosophy. Stoic mindset in realizing that, you know, something John of my control, but I do have control over the way. I choose to react to things we choose to move forward with my life. And that I have opportunities opportunities that guys like, Matt Ryan and sky don't have. And so for me to squander that. For me. Not to take advantage of every day and move forward in a way. They would be proud of is a complete waste. And so that makes it really to stop feeling sorry for yourself and to keep pushing to keep doing whatever you want to do. And so those are the two things I think that every day even to this day continue to push me forward is like, you know. Setting out on the mission and the vision that I want to achieve and the purpose for my life and taking advantage of every day because you know. It's an opportunity. I have something that that every day. I wake up I can go and create or do or or build or make something meaningful and to not take advantage of that is to disqualify opportunity that that anyone those guys would love to have. So it makes it real simple and easy for me to do brother. Yeah. That's awesome. Man. That's that's awesome. As an awesome attitude. How long did you stay? How long did you keep working in the Marine Corps? Said for about another two years after that. So is pretty cool. They have some programs in place for guys that are injured in the line of duty where you can stay in essentially as long as you want as long as you keep getting promoted and keep contributing. And so for me, I didn't pursue those longer term programs because I started to find some other opportunities though, was was as passionate about and wanted to pursue outside the military. And so I continued to work for about two years as a staff officer working with I, you know, the operation section as we're transitioning and trying to assigned mission sets, and and supporting all those different types of operation of racial planning efforts and gone back to business school part time to try to learn about business, and and to go get more education, and then I became really passionate about a new opportunity, and medical technology and medical research and thought that that was where. My next big impact would be and so decided to officially retire from the military in November of twenty fourteen and have been out since. And what was the what was the new opportunity, and and where did that lead? So the opportunity that arose was to start a company and try to address issues and unmet needs socio spinal cord injury. And so I learned firsthand how many challenges and how many issues there are. In addition to just being in a wheelchair that a lot of people don't see. And so everything from bowels bladder management sexual function physical training, like bone density and muscle mass. Or so many different things that are challenges that are unmet needs of the people like me and the pitch population of which part of and so the idea in the company, we started called spinal singularity, and that's what we're working to solve and surfers product. The first thing we're working on which is in clinical studies now is a a smart catheter for bladder management. And so allows people to push the button an empty their bladder which is currently. You know, much more advanced and much more useful and functional than the current method of management. And so that's what we've been working on for the past few years there. Yeah. You know, it's as I was kinda reading about the stuff that you've been working on and even on that item. Right there. Here reminded me of when when my buddy Jodi minute came down to be on the podcast, and he's you know, he's a double amputee. And but you know, I would see pictures of him walking around. And he would do like he did some big race up in Canada. I forget what the race was called amazing the amazing race. And he would do all this like really, you know, bad ass stuff that I would think, hey, you know, I it's it's all good. And and when he came down here, I think it might have been the second time it came down here. It was the second time he came down here, and we like hung out more because you know, he came down for a little bit more time, and we were a little bit tighter. But he well first of all I got him a hotel room. And he called me. And he said, hey, I'm not gonna stay at that hotel because they don't have you know, handicap stuff there, and I was like kind of. I was like, okay Yemen. Cool, you know, whatever. But in my mind, I was kinda thinking to myself like why why does he need that? Because I see him walking around and he's running the damn amazing race. Right. And this are asked him house. Like, you know later. I didn't ask them on the phone. I said, yeah. Cool whatever you want. And then later, I I talked him. I was like why do you why do you need that? I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I was just honestly asking. And he was like. Yeah. Well, you know like at night. I mean, I I take my legs off, and I gotta crawl around. And if I gotta pull myself up on the toilet. I gotta pull myself in the shower, and like if there's not handles and stuff, you know, it sucks. And so that was like part one of this story part two was we he wanted to walk around San Diego and see what I lived and go to the ocean and all this kind of stuff. And so we did that and we had gone. To the midway aircraft carrier and walked around there. And then we walked downtown. And we walked we were then we went to where I live, and we were kind of like walking the beach area, and I could see who's kind of like slowing down. I could see his face getting a little bit. You know, like like a little bit of a little bit of strain in his face. And he's came let me sit down for a minute. And then he he'd sit down and we talk a little bit. Then he'd say, okay. Let's go. And then he'd say les. Let's sit down and finds that came and we just go back to your house like my legs are really hurting. And you know, like, yeah. I guess what? You're you're putting all that pressure on on their stomps. And and it wears away the skin. It's it's, you know, it's hard, and it sucks, and I guess so that's part number two in what these two things reinforced to me is you know, what like there's so much going on that we that. I don't see that that because you know, I haven't been injured like that. There's so many things going on. They don't like all, you know. He's doing. Okay. It's like, yeah. He's doing. Okay. You're seeing him for like, two hours three hours. He's living like that twenty four hours a day. And he's got all these things to contend with that haven't even remotely crossed my mind. And so when I when I saw the the, yeah, I mean straight up the first time I ever it ever entered my mind, how you take a piss how you would take a piss in the first time it ever entered my mind when I was researching what your medical devices are. I was like, you know, how how ignorant am I you know, to be sitting here never even thought of that. And then that's one of all these other problems that you have to contend with on a daily basis, and it's you know, it's a daily it's a daily struggle meal. Something something Jim Webb brought up as well. He he was talking about different types of courage, and he brought up something called daily courage, and he's talked about one of his friends. It was wounded and he's like every day. It takes him twenty minutes to get out of bed. It takes him. Fifteen minutes. Get here, you know, to the other side of his room. He's a vats daily courage that he has to show and I'm thinking to myself yelp. And you know, it just makes me feel like there's so much. There's so much more that you know, you go through on a daily basis that we and me I completely take for granted. A completely take it for granted. And so for me to sit here and talk to you. And and realize we know how hard it is for you on a daily basis the things you have to go through. And then to hear you say like, yeah. But I'm glad I'm here on like, my brothers who didn't come home. Yeah. I don't think anyone has any excuses. Really, none. So. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah. And. Just makes you the do that much more creative with your mindset. Right. Like you look at all the challenges. But got also look at the opportunities. Right. So I can sprint through airports much faster than you can. Good parking mostly. No, she's got to make up time where you can read. It takes me a little bit longer to get off the airplane, but Kelly on the straightaways any day. And so, you know, you just gotta take take the go to bed. So, but you know, it's it's. Choice. So that was the that was the you got your MBA. At as while you were still in you went and got your MBA, or did you get how I I got about halfway through. So I did the part time program at UCLA, it's an executive MBA. So it's on the weekends every other weekend. And so as I was leaving the military. So I did the first year I was still on active duty and then retired shortly. I in the second year took another job or another medical device startup to get some experience. And then as soon as I graduated started fulltime working on spinal singularity, my company, and so one of the experiences to that was really cool that I had as part of that retirements. I think about it now was being able to use and be involved in as a user X skeleton technology, and so there's robotic exit skeleton technology that allows parallel privilege to stand and walk. And so because of a lot of generous donors in the brain writer foundation, I was able to be to use that device into to obtain that device even before FDA. And so I had a really really great setup within our our battalion headquarters in her office. And so we had a physical therapist downstairs smile. I was upstairs. It was fully accessible, which is not like most buildings in the military. And so I was able to use this device sustain and walk and to do therapy. And when are tired I was able to use that device and not use my wheelchair at all to leave on my own two feet, which was a golden it's at for myself. And so that was great. But it still didn't address a lot of these other unmet needs then we had for the community. And so that was what inspired me to try to move forward on my own path and start my own company and build this product to solve these issues so jessa very thankful for for all the donors in the through the foundation to help support that and I was also very fortunate. So like, you said a lot of other people who had gone before me. And so one of my classmates at the naval academy got him. Matt Lampert got to. First marine raider battalion about two years before I did because he was on the the quick cycle of deployments. And in two thousand ten years, a bilateral and BT above the knee as I was going through the training pipeline. And so I went up and saw him in in but dozen hospital and check in with him briefly as as he was coming back and starting his rehab, and you know, this is maybe a week after he'd gotten off the battlefield or less. And he says, you know, like, what are you going to do? And he's like when to go back to California's like, no, I'm going back Gasson like, okay? Gotcha. Don't think like man dial you're gonna you're gonna do that. And sure enough as I graduated from training. He was my company executive officer checked me in then we deployed again. So when I had got injured and deployed he was there as a company so and then after my friend mad had gotten killed. He went down and took over his team as by Lampley t above the knees. And so, you know, he'd come back. He had done that he had on that path. And so for me. You know, going back and recovering. Our building was accessible, you know, wheelchair accessible little there was a lot of other things. And then just that example that he said as well was was really helpful and inspiring Corinna follow. And so so really really fortunate in the rehab environment, especially because of all the assets is so calm has. And so if I'd been in the grunts been totally totally different story for how the recovery would have gone. You know, my entire command was super supportive of of me coming back and working and doing this, it whatever you need wherever you want. You want to go to obsolete? Sure. Let's do it giddy up. And so yeah. So it was a good place to recover. When you hear about like when you say broadly, like if I was grown. I would have gotten that kind of support. I mean, I get that. Because you know, in this teams, we have the same thing like like people will rally around and make stuff happen. Is there any organizations that you know, of that sort of support like the the front line soldier marine that gets that gets catastrophically wounded? Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of different nonprofits out there for five phoned is a big one there's a lot of different groups that support them. And and and it's different. It's not that they don't have the assets. It's just the location of those assets. And so an infantry battalion has a very different operational mission in leeway than special operations battalion. And so for all of the guys that were injured in the conventional forces when they come back there immediately sent to wanted warrior betine at the hospital. And so their job is now show up to your appointments into your rehab until you get. Separated from the military. That's a very different way to recover with a bunch of other people who are injured or on their way out whatever else versus, you know, and and without an operational purpose than what I was able to do. And I was very fortunate to do where I went back to an operational role with Italian, and I was the only one of the only injured guys, you know, recovering around normal people because I wanted to be like that. I don't know if you ever know guy named Jake Schick, but he was on here. And he he told his story. And that's like that's what it was. He was there. He was dislike his job was just kinda recover, but you could see and in talking to him. He he would have loved to have had some kind of a of higher purpose than just that. Which eventually he made he made it from self. He made his own organization to, you know, help wounded vets and and help suicide prevention with twenty two kill but. Yeah. So I think that would've that's a that's a good comparison. You know, just from. Here in him tell his story about you know, what his recovery was. I can it was it was geared towards. Okay. You're going to do this until you get out of the Marine Corps. I guarantee you know, he talked to Jake Schick for three minutes, and you're gonna realize if if you told him, hey, we want you to do this for the Marine Corps. He would have been all over it. He would have gone and done anything, you know, because he's a bad ass. But but yeah, no. That's that's a good point. And it's I e well, you've you heard me say because you kind of reference it a little bit. You know, I always tell guys need to find a new mission whatever that new mission is you gotta find a new mission. You can't be sitting around with no mission menu had a mission for for for whatever. Eight years seven years twenty years, however, long it's been you had you had a mission you had a goal, and if that goes away, you you gotta find a new one, and it doesn't really matter. What it is. I mean, pick something good, right? I mean, your mission shouldn't be shouldn't involve whiskey. But pick something positive and something good move in the right direction. How how is spinal singularity doing right now? Like, what's the what's the status? What doing really well? So it's been a good three years a learned a ton. And just the fact that we're still in business today's that's pretty amazing 'cause I zero experience right? No clue what I was doing because I know experience a medical device had no network. And so the first year was a lot a lot of faith a lot of ups and downs, right? And just like starting any business, but especially in the medical device industry. I learned a ton. And then was fortunate enough to find people to bring in that are experienced and then a trust. And so we've raised money from investors, we've raised you know, money from grants and undiluted sources. And we're right now, we have a small team of six employee's in in San Clemente. And we're running a large clinical study across the US right now. And so we have sites all over everywhere from. Sota New Jersey to you know, all over southern California and Arizona on were those sites are actively enrolling people interested in in supporting our trial, and this how long does that trial need to last before it gets approval. So the goal is have approval internationally next year. And then hopefully by the end of the year, we can have a approval for the product as well, we are a hundred percent certain that does happen. But that's that's the goal. And hopefully, we can collect the data we need as quickly as possible to to accomplish that. And then do you have your next device in mind after this one goes live got ideas? But I'm always I've always been like versatile guide. Not like, the, you know execution like the hundred zero to ninety percent guy, not the ninety two hundred percents bring it home guy. And so I know that so everybody else that we were, you know, everybody else in our team now or like the ninety to one hundred percent guys. And so I'm trying to be more like that. And not even think about it. Because if if this doesn't work God there is no business, right? Like, we've put all of our, you know, this is what we raise money to do. You know, we haven't we don't we can't knowingly devote a minute of time to anything else until this is successful. So you'll get with that. Then we can kind of go back and drawing worth. But and once it's approved here, then it just then it's just the sailing selling it and getting out there, and it's going into the into the world. And then what about the what about the marine raider foundation, which is another thing involved with? Yeah. So after I was injured I was very ignorant to the realities of the way things work, and what the needs would be. For me. And so a lot of nonprofits, author do all kinds of great work and different things as a marine raider in this situation without knowing anything, you know, I didn't want to talk to anybody that I was very his in to reach out for help to anybody. And so as these things arose, you know, one of the guys who is or was is it employee of the organization now known so it was a currently in active duty raider at that time was like, hey, man. Like, we're starting this nonprofit to help guys like if you say say, so and so I was like cool. And so they helped pay for my wife to move out to Tampa. So she can be there for my recovery helped, you know, get her car out there. So she could drive around and help transport me around to different things the helped us raise money for the skeleton because it was still not covered by insurance with the VA was still experimental at that time and helped do all of these things. And so, you know, my wife, and I are Turnley grateful. For all the sport receive from them. And so soon as I got out of the military that organizations today, do you want to be a board member? Do you want to help? Yes. Absolutely. And so that was two thousand fourteen and so I've been on the board since then, and then goes two thousand fifteen I took over as board president so have been trying to devote my spare time to help that organization, but the missions that we serve and ultimately what we do at the foundation is just to support unmet needs of the community and their families. And so the government's really good at supporting injured veterans, and and they have so many different programs that that help people, but every situation is unique. And so congress isn't going to change a law to appropriate money for you to not do something that doesn't fall into the the black and white letter of the law, and that's fine. But that's where we step in and are able to help things help people, and, you know, take the stress off of them in their times of need. So at four real major areas one and support to the the marine raiders, another family resiliency, third one is tragedy assistance and survivor support. And then the last one is. Reiter legacy in preservation. And so obviously, the raiders support in the family support are pretty broad wisdom work, and they can be anything from you know, just anything under the sun that that will help rains in their families tragedy. Survivor support even though you know, we're engaged in varying levels of combat. They're still guys out there putting their lives on the line every day. And that's evidenced by recent training incident that we had about two years ago lesson two years ago two thousand seventeen there was a C one thirty crash that claimed the laws of seven marine raiders. And then two years before that helicopter crash in another training mission out of Florida that they're going to lead another seven guys and so being able to support their their families and family members that had survived. Those incidences is a big part of the mission that we we fulfill and then. Raider legacy in preservation, just one thing you you hit on this a little bit. But I'm just going to expand a little bit. So people can kind of understand when you talked about like Congress's going to change law to give a family that what they needed a certain time because it's too specific or whatever. And the reality is let's say a kid, you know, needs a new bicycle, and there's there's you know, the dad can't go and get it because he's wounded he's in the hospital. Like, that's the kind of things at the foundation. You do go out by the bike get it built and deliver like little things like that that really matter, and it can be bigger things to like you said like moving a family helping to pay for the movement of family, helping redecked, you know, get furniture for the new apartment, whatever it is. There's no law that takes care of those situations. But these types of organizations do that, and it, and it does have a big deal the has a huge impact for those for those families that are there and believe me when those families earn those tough situations these little. Things to be able to. Not have them think about it. Not having think about, hey, the the cost of a flight to fly, you know, dad out to come and visit his son or whatever any any of those little things. They don't seem like a big deal, but there are huge deal when families are going through these dramatic times. Yeah. Yeah. Another example when my friend met was killed and his family went to go pick them up at Dover. One of the last, you know, things that his mother wanted was her whole family to fly home with them. And the government only pay for the father and mother, I think it was. And so the other two brothers and some other family friends that wanted to all be on the same plane that was one thing that she wanted. She didn't want to just said, hey, I want us all to be on the same plane going home while we're we're grieving with my son. That's that's so instead of having to deal with that and the insanity of it, you know, just tell her, hey, we got it for you. Like, you're on the plane. You're good perfect example such a small seemingly small gesture, but with the timely injection of support can have a really lifelong impact on on people. And so those are some of the the different experiences, and I can go on and on about different ways that we've been able to help people but bottom line is. Guys are going out and doing these different things and for them to be able to go forward and into to fight with a happy heart. They want to know their families or taking care of on the backside and the community will support them. And so that's that's literate as we just, you know, we're five onc- three that raises money to support the community members in their time of need. And then the last one is legacy. Yes. So which is legit because you guys I mean, you guys kind of are saving the legacy of the original World War, Two raiders, right? Yes. We're trying to and so we explain how that how you guys are Dopp did the name because it's it's it's awesome. It's a good history. So so the marine raiders the World War Two marine raiders were one of the first special operations units formed period. They were formed in World War Two and their mission was to conduct enemy deeper Coniston's, essentially prior to invasions in the Pacific. And so these guys would mount up and rubber boats. They were the first ones to do submarine law. Lockouts, and you know, in some of the things that they did were just. Insane by today's standards. And so these guys were very well trained and Bissett provided the lineage of of who we are today. And so those that group and then other members also joined the us at that time, which was the precursor to the CIA there's a lot of marines at that that unit as well. And those are the two kind of units that we draw our lineage from as as the marine special operations units today. And so these guys were disbanded in nineteen forty six after they came back or maybe it was in nineteen forty five after the war. And so we've been very active in connecting with these guys have an association that actually Colonel Kaczynski is is in charge of now, he's the president of the Rian Writers Association of which is a social organization, not not not not if I won three. And so while these guys are still alive today. World War, Two veterans. So we get to go and meet with them and talk with them and hear these stories of these amazing missions, they did and and conducting, you know, month long patrols behind enemy lines. You know, sabotaging the Japanese and different different battles. And so these guys were very very vocal and outspoken two different leadership within the Marine Corps, as they're all, you know, in their nineties and passing away this today. One way to honor our legacy is to have a marine raider, you know, have them raider unit today, and that went over terribly with any leadership because if you don't know there's there's a pretty strong. Culture and brainwashing done within the Marine Corps. And it's. From day one. There's only one title of matters. You're a marine. It's one zero marine you are elite. No one is every everyone is special in no in a special. You know, you're all replaceable. But you're all special, which is the weirdest conundrum, but all of us believe it and at the highest levels title of any unit, you know, that thinks your special, you know, is against the entire culture. And so. Since formation since the marine special operations. Command was officially formed in two thousand six from the force reconnaissance units overnight, they became the marine special operations command. So literally change the guide on at a ceremony. And then they're officially so calm assets. There was this undercurrent this push from the lowest levels, and guys were really strongly pushing this. And so the raiders symbol the raider logo from World War Two is a, you know, a shield with the Southern Cross and a skull and dagger in it, then so I should meet the daggers on there. We have the dagger for some of our knowledge, it's the skull in the Southern Cross. And so guys would wear patches in patches or another things that record. No beards anything that is not in strict adherence with the uniform policy does not tolerated. And so, you know, that's a quick way to get get hammered. Right. It's like you're not special. What do you think you're doing? This is an authorized all that kind of stuff. Whereas armies like, you know. Hey, I'm in the seal teams. Flare. Embarrassing expected to have like to look. Within the Marine Corps. It was consistent undercurrent pushing and pushing and pushing it towards patches, and then it became tattoos. So guys would get the raider and bloomed just tattooed on their chest. And then not wear ski shirt. So you feel like, you know, going into first sergeant and they're like. We'll just give you sure devil dog. Let's give shirt on. So it wasn't official until it was about two years ago. Your and a half ago. After a decade of insurgency ause them the units that that we have a name, and I think it's directly attributed to album raven, actually so within so calm. He's a really smart guy. Phenomenal commander, obviously, and he gets marketing, and branding and just the basic, you know, title, right? Like you've earned the title of marine and within the special operations community. You're in the title of seal and green. And so he said, hey, my one of my last things I wanna do like I wanna work with the coming of the Marine Corps. I want you guys to get a title. And yet, it's writer. It's it's it's not even about marketing brain, it's about heritage and unit pride. I mean, what what more awesome thing than to take and keep alive that tradition from World War Two of those guys in the service and sacrifice that they had. It's it's bad ass, man. It's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah. As part of that too. You know, there's just like everything growing up, right? Like, we're growing up as an organiser. Asian. So we're new to so calm. So we're we're trying to figure out as quickly as we can sweet have our military special occupational specialty code. So that took a while to we had stay the raiders now for their whole career. Yes. That's awesome. Yeah. Because initially when they started it wasn't the case. It was like, well, we'll let so come usually guys. But then we wanna use you to. So every five years you're coming back to the fleet. And you're going to be an infantry company or rifle platoon and stuff and they were like guys when I first joined the navy. I've talked about this before when I first joined the navy the marines didn't have names on their uniforms because they didn't need them because your name was Lance, corporal. And your name was staff sergeant. And that's it. It was legit. I always had a lot of respect for. But of course, now, they have them. But I always thought that that that shows you there's like, let's slow, you know, there's a slow change in the Marine Corps. I'm sure some people would say that. It's not good. But yeah, it just is. It's this. Marine Corps began weenie. Here comes again. Also, it's good. And so so we haven't them west guys can stick around. We have a name we have a badge. Now, we have a like a. You know, it's like you guys other tried it. And we have a a war eagle. Big eagle and a giant sword. And so well, the coughing that the coup the cool thing about the marine raiders and about the marine special operations is if you're in the navy in urine the seal teams like you have nothing. There's no cross. There's almost no crossover. There's almost no there's one there's three percent crossover from the US navy to a seal team in terms of your skills. Right. You you're a guy driving shipper working big sixteen inch gun or working on a missile technology. That's what you do in the navy. The seal team's you're in field with a machine gun there's zero crossover, and that's horrible and in the Marine Corps. It's like, oh, you're an infantryman that totally. I mean, every skill is applicable, and that is such an advantage to the Marine Corps. And it's such a advantage to the raiders because you get guys. That have fundamental infantry skills when they roll in. We have to teach guys infantry skills. Once we've taught them sort of fundamental special operations type small unit tactics. Then we have to teach them conventional more more conventional movements just to get them up to speed because you got to know those things if you're out working with a hundred forty Iraqi soldiers, you can't that's that's not a small unit any more, you know, you got to go to think a little bit differently. So you guys have that that advantage, and that's an awesome. An awesome thing. I mean, I remember the guys used to kind of complain about it when I was friends with a bunch of force recon guy's gonna do. They would always complain about going to be billets. Like, hey, I gotta go. Well, not to be built, but they have to go back to an infantry platoon. And I would always think to myself man, I'd go to infra triple tuner. You kidding me? Like, it's awesome. It's awesome. And this. So I think that's a that's an advantage. So if there's any young out there that are thinking about your future think about the Marine Corps thing because you get that. Full spectrum of kind of land warfare. You get the Fabius side too. But you get the full spectrum of infantry. And and that's awesome. And you don't you. It's hard to get that in the seal team's you get it over time. But I gotta tell you where I got it from I got it from working with marines on our deployments. And I got to see what a company movement looked like in. That's where I learned from thank God. Because by the time, I was older and in Iraq working with the Armenian require kind of had at least some semblance of knowledge about it. Yeah. Couldn't agree. More and one of the good things about that as well. For us as a organization is we don't have streaked us off. Right. There's a period of time. And so you know, like. You get to assess people and one of the best assessments you can make for future performances of past performance. And so if you've already got two to four years of observation in the Marine Corps, if you couldn't hack it in triple tune, then you don't really deserve to try out or make it to the special committee. But those lessons learned you're absolutely right. It's it's exactly the same stuff. So if you you know, like for all those young motivators out there that want to become a marine or become a mar sock. Like, I I f- is just become a marine be good. Great. Marina, whatever you do. You'd be an injury. Like be great. Like be the best rifleman. You could be the best mortem in machine gunner. Whatever else any MOS. Yes. Okay. So that's awesome. So you don't have to worry about what you're molasses you won't get withheld. No, it's it's becoming more and more competitive. And and if you're smart, obviously, I mean, I always tell people just to going to your reconnaissance unions. 'cause you know, if you wanna be a raider, and you want to go do those sorts of things those skill sets are much more applicable. It's better learning early and become. The master of those as opposed to a master of admin or supply or anything else. So what's MOS military? Operational specialty occupational specially military. So it's like what your job is to be a rifleman, you can be a machine gun or you can be a mortar men, but you can also be an a mechanic. You can be an IT guy, and you can be. I mean, there's marines at our do every job, you know, every job that you can have same thing in the army and same thing in the navy. You know, and so that's why I used to be in the navy had to have certain ratings if you were going to go in the seal team's, okay? And so I was wondering if they did the same thing like we only take is from infantry. Lasting? I'll ask you about. 'cause I know we've been here for a while you got to you got two sons. And how's that gone? It's awesome. How will they awesome? They're almost sixteen months old or sixteen. Yes. Sixteen months old. You're just in the full get some stage. Yeah. My wife is awesome. So they can do a few things. So they can run they can yell and they can throw things. When I come home. I just know that like she's been just getting. Run around getting thrown out. You know, like yelled at cried diaper like the whole thing. So. Yeah. Giants to he's got a twin brother do. Yeah. The giants are huge. Isn't it like psychological things to watch out for with twins? Like what I don't know. Aren't they like, hyper competitive? Let me give you one piece of advice. I don't even I don't not a twin. He's to get your kids trading jitsu when they're really young because if you have a twin brother or even a brother that's close in age, you're going to be really good at ju jitsu because you'd have natural train with all the time. They're the same size as you. And there's some kids out there that are just sick. And it's because they have twins. I mean, I'm not I'm not trying to take away from them. But it's a huge advantage. If you've got a twin brother, they should be grappling. I fully intend on that side. That's one thing. We didn't talk about but a legit too. So I I got involved when I was a senior in high school it just became like a. Yeah. Like Russell, I did a little bit wrestling. And then I played mostly football in the cross and one of the guys I was a lifeguard to and so one of the guys that came by pool. He was a like a correctional officer got hooked up with some guys up in Philadelphia and started training. So it's like me him and a couple other guys turning in like a church gym and so train there. And then went the naval academy. One of the things that I did was try to start a club. Oh growling club there because it was it was just coming up. Right. It was like thousand to two thousand three two thousand four and so trained, and then did a did boxing did a limited and had a couple of fights. And then like when I graduate became rain and was married with put that on hold because I on time. But yeah, absolutely. Four kids. I didn't put it on hold. I got after it. Boxing, writing may fights on. Guys, go. Well, you know, I I had kids I got two kids. And then they come and give you the look the look for from me. My answer is I got four kids. Gets the argued training anymore. I'm not no, no, I haven't. So I I turned a little bit of Marine Corps, and we did some combative and stuff, and I did all of that. But just focused on trying to be great infantry officer. And so yeah, yeah. But I got a friend max max max is paralyzed chest down. I would say, yeah, he trains. Yeah. He trains has it come down and hook up with them. So that he's he's his grip has gotten a lot stronger. All tight his grip is super strong now. But it's awesome. But yeah, yeah. No jujitsu is is good. And with your twin boys? It's going to be real good. Yeah. Man. Look, I we've been we've been at it for awhile, and man, just just awesome. Awesome to hear you and talk to you. We're where can people find you? So where should they look Twitter? I'm on on Facebook, Instagram. Lincoln the usual, Twitter all that stuff. Derrick Derrick Herrera without that's dot com in there's two r's in a row in Harare. And there's a third. So there's headed a total of three r's in there invaded a head. Yeah. But only one in your first name, right? Yeah. It's your Yuri dot com. So that's a website Ivan updated the blog in a while, but focused on on work and just doing that in so spinal singularity dot com has some of the other stuff we're doing but Facebook Instagram, all this stuff public put anything out. That's not that's not private and really define me. So I try to answer a little emails and messages, and whatever else anybody sends me note, so not hard to detract me down. Awesome, man, and marine raider foundation dot org. Can people find out how to donate on? There is that that website at the top. There's a donate button says donate now, and they'll take you to link you can mail checks. You can sign up for credit card pay pal? Whatever whatever you do. There's also some contact information to. So if you can't can't give financial you want to give time there's volunteer opportunities for different events and things. But yeah, that's great way to get involved. Awesome. You got any any closing thoughts? Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's pleasure to be here. And share my story with you not here doing this to seek the limelight for anything. I'm doing it to try to be a Basset or the guys that are continue go forward and put their their lives on the line on a daily basis who can't talk about what they do or advocate for themselves. A lot of people to think my wife in particular. It's been there for me every step of the way, the foundation, the marine raider foundation, and all the people associated with with the organization my team who saved my life and wouldn't be here without them. And you know, all the guys that are out there lay it down on a daily basis. Awesome, man. Well, like, I said, it's it's been an honor to sit here and talk to your near your story, and what you've been through and your sacrifice BNB, even beyond what you did in the Marine Corps. What you're still doing building your business and with the with the foundation and. Most important I think is just to set this incredible example to this day. Of what it means to never surrender of what it means to never quit. And what it means never give up regardless of the challenge that you're facing, man. That's awesome. So I appreciate the example you set for me and for everyone and thanks for coming on and sharing it a little bit. Thank you, pleasures, all mind awesome. And Derek has left the building. Obviously awesome to have him on. And hear about his story. So. Echo. Yes. If somebody wants to support this podcast. How can they do it many ways we will? Well, actually, an of a meant to kind of. I didn't want to interrupt. But you know, what do you call it? The something d the decompression needle down decompression. Yeah. I guess I should ask him that. But is that like, can you feel that you know, like when you know when it goes into dick in a damn needle into you through your ribcage into your lungs. Yeah. Remember, you want to see if you can feel it sticking through your chest. And I don't know. I it remember that movie three kings when the Mark Wahlberg. Yes. No. They did that I'm pretty sure. Okay. Anyway. That movie right cool. Anyway. Yes. How can we support? How can we support ourselves? That's the question. I way is to stay on the path keep working out keep eating healthy. That's the hardest. One mean darkwa talking on a side note, like meeting healthy is kind of the hardest part about this whole stain on the path. Could be. Yeah. I think because it's like the well, then again working out can depends on who you are either way. You want to stay on the path one of those elements of the path. It's required. Now is just. True. You gre-, right? Yep. Would anyway when you do you're going to need to go to origin main dot com. Get whatever you want doesn't matter the color. Well, no check when you're in shock with your instructors check with your personal moral, compass? That's not white. Yeah. What? So what do you mean? Tradit- tradit- like, you know, Pete consciously tries to like usurp my personality by he always he won't give me a white. Ye and he gives me a blue guy a black Gearoid out Righi. He wants to try and break me out of this tradit-, we need success. We don't because now I have all different colored Giza ego. But I wouldn't say that violates your moral situation. That's more of a style thing. Okay. Which violates my? So. Yeah. A little bit either way. Yes. But but I guess I can I can claim a small victory because I can be like, I don't care. What colored is right, right? Yeah. That's true. Little little moral victory back in my because nothing like you're sitting around like, hey, maybe I should grab of green. Because that'd make me. Like, that'd be awesome. Just opening the package from Pete going. Oh, yeah. He sent me a blue geek nothing. Whatever still on where it. Yeah. Who thinks? Oh, so yeah. Get a gay, man. Whatever color you want after you check with the instructor and your moral, compass. I guess also rash guards biggest-selling ghee color is, you know, white. Nope back. Yes. Come on this company. We had that conversation with everybody wants to be an engine. Everybody wanted to be an engine when they were little thing. That's the most selling that. That's like everybody wants to get ninja. Yeah. And the mix the ninjas had a black geese apparently. What we did little special shoes with the to-. Right. She. Oh. Check either way rash guards. Swing rash guards. Yeah. Four Nogi or for whatever kind of activity. You can get t shirts there, and you can get supplements. Jaakko so the joint warfare for your joints, krill oil for your all around Kane. VM disciplined get you get you in his own which J P sent me taxed, and he's like, how are you still say, Dave Burke is the rep all your discipline these more because JP's more disciplined. Yeah. And he's undisciplined go. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That kinda in a way. That kinda go pill the discipline Gopal in. He's all he sent a picture of. Some like super high speed thing. He's this is me on disciplined. Go. JP is what do you call jockeying for? He leaned goal Representative position. Yeah. And he thinks Dave Burke because daybreak has sort of the OG disciplined player who deal. Yeah. Well, it let's face it. Dave Burke, he's he's going to be perfect regardless because he's such like boom high achiever dude from day one. You know? So you know, GP's a loose cannon. So he can be their Representative. Well, he can't be loose Cantonese. Then he can be the Representative discipline go because he's disciplined, but he will he go the fine. I think the funny thing you don't mean loose cannon. What you mean to say about J P J P fired up. He's fired up is J P doesn't need dough discipline. That's why he's not the best Representative because I'm like JP. We get more in a game. He's eight. Yeah. Yeah. So so JP will. We'll just give them. A mutual supports is porting assets behind the discipline. So yeah you discipline. You can also get MLK Mench peanut butter chocolate vanilla gorilla, which is supposedly named after Leith Babb. And from what I understand. And the darkness and other than the warrior kid, mock strawberry and chocolate try those out even if you're an adult I hate to say it, but I was thinking about this. Have you ever as an adult drank a strawberry quick? Yes. You have. I have big time. Now don't have to do that anymore. Because now you can get something. That's literally completely healthy. What was the one that wasn't quick that they tried to skew angle is healthy. Right. That was they couldn't they want some other chocolate. I never under that. Yeah. Forget it had vitamins and on the the working mocked awful team might try and skew that's they'll come on. And go look at the ingredients. And then we'll compare that to to Malk. Yeah. You know, what that stuff hasn't it bunch of sugar. You know, mock hasn't it MLK? Correct. From mock way different. So yeah, get all that stuff from. Origin may not come. Also, if you wanna represent Jaakko has a store. Everybody Christmas is coming up. This is what I'm doing. I'm going to activate the funny because I'm saying like this thing is like such an old thing a gift card. Jaakko store dot com. So it's like, you know, like, okay, your brother or whoever doesn't is like in the game. Right. You know, whatever your cousin whoever and they're in the game. They want you know, and you say, hey, you know, what I can't pick out what I want for you from here. You just pick out. What you want bull nego gift giftcards? Boom, unless you know, what I'm leaving this completely in your hands. You know, why I don't give gifts I don't like gifts and gift cards just aren't a thing for me. I ever given anyone a gift card ever. And so that's gonna be year deal over there on your side of the truck. That's exactly what I was thinking when I was making it. So this goes against kind of Jaakko thinks that you don't want to do on the gift card of virtual representation, I'm gonna put your face right in the middle of it there. They go on it. So it's kind of like, yeah, it's a gift card, but it's kind of from Jaakko since you don't give gifts boom. Okay. Anyway on there. There's some good shirts. You want to represent this link with read them, you know, any kind of how should I say philosophy them half some good stuff on there? Some rash guards as well and hoodies tank tops. I know it's winner I dig it. But if you're in Honolulu Pearl Harbor wherever you can still represents a tank top this time of year. But yeah, a lot of good stuff on there. Jaakko store dot com. Deaf or stuff to the core. Falso? Also subscribe to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on Stitcher, I tunes Google play. And. Spotify. I don't listen to Spotify. I barely know what it is. But I hear good things. And you know, we're on there and. Bonafide play like mixed tapes. Kind of is that the theory behind it. Yeah. I don't know either. You can get the podcast there as well. Yeah. So if you know, you can ask Alexa for the podcast. Elect. Okay. And don't be confused with that. I think we went over this before some people think that it's an Alexis not, Alex. That's like saying, I have it's not an iphone. It's a Serey. No Siri is the the the girl inside Alexis the girl inside the device called Amazon echo. Check layer. Anyway. Yes. Subscribers by this already and leave a review if you're in the mood. Don't forget about the war your kid podcast, which I just posted a new one last week and got a lot of really cool feedback on that one and. Yeah. I think once people got that one because I don't talk about it. I don't post very much about it. But anyway, so much people downloaded all of them because they're they're cool. And they're good. I believe the word is conversation starters with your children. That's what a lot of people said like, oh, I finally had the conversation that I needed to have with my kids about. Well in that case war your kid podcast number nineteen about making good decisions and making bad decisions. And how if you make some bad decisions along the way, you could ruin everything. Yeah. Totally. What's interesting about that? One too is I have the supreme luxury of being able to listen to all these while they happen podcasts. But on top of that if I have a specific question for myself. I can just ask you. But like, even though I might already kind of know the answer. But when you deal with kids, you can't just deliver certain information the same way, you would as an adult like, your friend. So I'm like man, how do I approach this specific situation and the way that and the way you do it in where your kid is the same way? Like, you you kind of tell it to me, whatever it's that alleviates so much stress when like when you need to approach your kids at this stuff or one thing that everyone says is this is what I try and help my kids. They don't listen to me which day. David. They listen listen to me, Jake. Let Jake Thome. What's what uncle Jake speaks the truth? And they and they accept it from Jake. Yeah. Oddly enough. Yes, sir. Also, you YouTube if you if you were interested in the video version of this podcast go and see what chocolate thing not with Derek looks like we'll see what I look like if that's your thing. If you haven't seen the two minute trailer for the Mike in the dragons book, you can get that on you to which by the way is epic. And I don't use that term lightly. Cool echo sent me the four approval taxed with that video in it. And I watched it and I wrote back. This is the best video I've ever seen in mind. Tired of life? All caps. Good. And then I went and read YouTube comments, so far no one has said echoes Jack because you're not individual. Yeah. Which is which is supremely cool. But what's cool is people are are saying about a two minute. Video a cartoon video about a kids book people are saying that they got tears in your eyes that they got chills. It's a legit video. It's awesome. So yeah, you can get that. If you go to the YouTube channel, and then while you're doing that you can subscribe to it to to the YouTube channel. Get the the big, you know subscriptions. And then you can also you can get you can get psychological warfare from I tunes, Google play MP, three whatever. And that's me telling you to do the right thing and making you do it. So just give it a shot through it. True. Also, when you want a very up your worked out, you wanna add kettlebells, your workout get on it kettlebells, go to on it dot com slash Jaakko. Some good stuff on there, workout stuff. A lot of good stuff on good information to but away going there on it dot com slash Jaakko Jaakko white t. Yes. Tastes delicious. And is very good for you. And it gives you eight thousand pound dead lifts so give that one a try also got some books. We got Mike in the dragon's. Okay update. I'm printing them as fast. I can there's a bunch of printers that are printing. New copies of Mike in the dragons, some of them have already been ships. They'll be going to Amazon we are going to be cutting it close right now. Actually, we should be good people that are ordering. Well, it's going to be cutting, plus depending on when you exactly order, whether it gets you by Christmas or not, but the faster you order the better chance you will have of getting it before Christmas. I apologize that. I did not order enough books to be printed. And that is my fault. And I should've done better. And as Sarah Armstrong pointed out to me, she's like, oh, yeah. Well, you know, why you didn't order enough books because you thought oh, well, Sarah will get a book and Andrew Paul. We'll get a book and iris will get a book, and then everyone posts with they got Andrew got twenty copies. Sarah got ten copies Irish got ten cop. So everyone's buying multiple copies. As it's the ultimate Christmas gift for. Anyone between the ages of zero and ten or twelve anyways. Mike in the dragons order it as quick as you can. And we will I get it to you by Christmas. If not, hey, what's the next holiday after Christmas? News New Year's, okay? Maybe they'll get a New Year's gift, and or what's after that Easter well, technically Easter Valentine's Day. Oh, well, technically. Okay. You give Valentine's Day gift for your children. I guess if you that. And if not, you know, just get it for them. Yeah. It's a good one. That's a fun one that you mentioned that video and the goal there was to kinda Saint try to capture what it's like like reading your book. He goes on in your head and sea captured what's going on in that book in your head. How you read into you kind capture that in a little summary. That's what it was. I think he did. Because that's really how I felt when I read that book to my daughter. It's good you do voices. When you read that book, the king voice. Sorry, not going to whom I saw. But rather classified. So you gotta at least just give us a two mice on to my son. That was awesome. Sounds way better. When I read it tear, food and understand that. Wow. I often I feel like a voice actor over here to that one. You kind of. Hey moving on. Yeah. Mike, and the dragons awesome book also way of the where your kid one end to from Wimpy to warrior kid and then marks mission. That's number one number two. Also important critical books. I personally think or the one that my daughter requests me to read again, and again, and again is part to Marsh Marquette Michigan interesting, she really likes Nathan Nathan James she likes that idea of that irritating person because that's how key jar. They always talk, and you know, wake Casey meets Danny Reinhard. Yeah. Danny reinhard. Book. Three. I'm in the process writing right now ten chapters deep Danny Reinhard shows up. So yeah, she'll she'll like Dante Reinhard. Even though my youngest daughter when when she found out about the character, Danny Reinhardt. And who he was and now she goes Tanny Reinhard. Because the character. He's like good at everything. That's the the premise of warrior kid three. The there's no bully say there's actually a kid. That's a good kid. He's good at jujitsu. He's good at pull ups. He's good at running. He's good at everything. And he's nice and that robs Mark the wrong way. Because all of a sudden he's got someone that he's jealous of its hitting his ego. And what's that guy's name? Name is Danny Reinhard. How awesome is that? So I told my daughter that she was like Danny Reinhardt. And she says, oh, she's what a Danny Reinhard do today. But you kinda can intimate that your son or daughter that you're reading it to or the person reading the, you know, if they're of reading age they're gonna like, Danny, right? They are. But they're I dunno. They're gonna they might they might side with Mark a little bit graying here marks getting annoyed because Danny hill. He does this. He taps. He'll tap someone out and say like, oh, I must've got lucky. He's one of those kind of guys like he beats him in a running race. And he's calling you you know, I was feeling pretty good today. I guess. As he won't take credit for anything, which is. And since it already bothers Mark that he lost his. Right. Yeah. And plus we all been on the mission since, you know, be sense before market even do pull ups. We've been with them the whole time. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So we're feeling is pain with them. So now this guy Danny he hasn't felt any pain. Forget the antigen naturally. Good at everything. Screw that. Yeah. So that's Danny Reinhardt. And that's going to be coming out in the spring o fully if I finish it in time, but which I will disciplining freedom field manual. You can get that book too. That's another book that you can get for the holiday seasons. Let's just say that. If it might kinda mess up like jam up someone's new year a little bit if they try and get on the path like for Christmas like what pre New Year's resolutions area. Yeah. Oh, maybe they maybe they use that to kick off the New Year's resolution. They get a little deaf core. But here's the thing though. I think you might even say it in that book. Maybe. Yeah. Like, I've said oh New Year's today. Now, I've said that many times, and I believe it's to this moment. So yeah, that's the dismiss freedom field manual. The the audio version of that is not an audible it is on. It's an MP three thing. I tunes Amazon music Google play extreme ownership. That's the first leadership. I wrote book I wrote with my brother Leif Babb, and we follow that up with the dichotomy of leadership, which is possibly better. Anyways. You should check it out. It will teach you how to pragmatically apply the policies put forth in extreme ownership into your world. We also have a leadership consultant company, we saw problems who leadership. That's what we do. It's me Leith Babb and JP Donell, Dave Burke Flynn Cochran Mike's rally Mike by. And if you wanna find out about that go to Ashland front dot com. We will come out and work with your company and get your leadership aligned. Also, we got the muster in two thousand nineteen there's going to be one in Chicago. There's going to be one in Denver. And if you want to come to the muster they've all sold out. So if you wanna come try and register early extreme ownership dot com, and we have e f overwatch which connects spec ops vets. And aviation combat aviation vets with companies that need leaders tried and tested leaders. And and you mar sock raiders out there that have gotten out hit it up at the F overwatch dot com. And we can do connected to a job where you'll be in a leadership position in the civilian sector. Again, that's overwatch dot com. If you want to hang with us still after this on the interwebs first of all Derek like, I said he left but Twitter, dear Carreira, Instagram. Derek underscore Harare. Facebook dare Carreira dare Carreira dot com and also the marine raider foundation. Again, he talked about all the things that the marine raider foundation does. And if you want to go to that the link is marine raider foundation dot org. And then of course, if you wanna talk with echo and myself on Twitter on Instagram or on Facebook, e Boho echo is at echo, Charles. And I am at Jaakko Willink, and thanks to all our military personnel out there holding the line. We can do what we do because you are doing what you do. And we will never forget that in special thanks to the marine raiders. For your legacy of bravery. That will never be forgotten and obviously Derek Herrera for his service his face. And like I said to him the incredible example that he sets thanks to police in Bonn forcement firefighters paramedics EMT's correctional officers border patrol all first responders. Thank you for keeping us safe here at home and the rest of you that are out there listening. I know things don't always go the way we want him to go. But I think just listened in to Derrick today. I think there's no doubt. That that is the attitude you take you don't focus on. What is wrong you focus on? What is right? You don't focus on what you can't. Do you focus on what you can do your thankful that you have these opportunities. That's so many didn't get. Then you take that attitude, and then you go out there and get after it. And until next time, this is echo and Jaakko. Out.

Marine Corps Iraq naval academy officer Afghanistan Delaware Ramadi Derek herrera instructor Arkansas Little Rock air force academy Officer Persian Gulf United States Marine Colorado Israel Jim Webb Dover
Hard Factor 6/27: PFT Joins Us For A Democratic Debate Recap, Mueller To Testify Before Congress, How Do The Japanese Live So Long & Other Topics In The Lightning Round

Hard Factor

31:17 min | 2 years ago

Hard Factor 6/27: PFT Joins Us For A Democratic Debate Recap, Mueller To Testify Before Congress, How Do The Japanese Live So Long & Other Topics In The Lightning Round

"Wooded you Joe man. Randy savage this factor in the risk. No one that does better now. But he does it better, repeat myself. Hit told me something right down. Moderate. Lording welcome to another episode of heart b-actor is Thursday, June twenty-seventh and tonight, we have PF t- commenter in the house. Thanks for joining PET. Yeah. I'm a hot sweaty mess down here in Miami. But I am very happy joining us. Hey, just got just got off the debates, right? Yeah. I was out on the street. I was talking to the folks. There are all sorts of folks out here tonight, but then I actually didn't get into the spin room tonight. Hopefully tomorrow night. We'll see what happens. So I just watched from the comfort of my air conditioned hotel room, which is how everybody should spend every second. When they go visit Miami in the summertime. Or on the beach is just looking at butts. Right. True. That's true. Valid point update. My flow chart that probably would have been a lot cooler than going to the democratic debates. But I mean you made your choice. So. All right. Our top stories for the day while we brought PF Tian actually just do a Wednesday presidential democratic debate, recaps that's gonna be the first one. And after that west and I'll just take us through lightning round of other headlines. Let's get straight into the recap. Hear that sound. That's right. Crickets and those crickets, not just what you here late at night inside my sweltering garage. It's also a metaphor for the sound your loved ones may hear from heaven, if they ask your debt as if you bought life insurance before you kick the bucket, that is unless you do the right thing and get a life insurance policy through policy genius policies is the easy way to shop for insurance through online. Just in just two minutes, you can compare quotes from top insurance to find the best price. Once you apply. The Palestinians team will handle all the paperwork and red tape no sales pressure, no hidden fees, just financial protection and peace of mind and policy genius doesn't just make life insurance easy. That can also help you find the right home insurance auto insurance and disability insurance. So if you need life insurance, but you've been busy doing literally, anything else, checkout policy genius is the easy way to compare all the top insurers and find the best value for you policy genius dot com. Nobody wants to shop for life insurance. That's why we made it easy. All right. So was a big debate on Wednesday night. We're recording. Right. Afterwards, we're going to go candidate by candidate starting with their Twitter, most searched phrase, so it's going to be the name of the candidate, and then the things people were searching for about them on Twitter. And then our thoughts on their performance. So to kick it off. We're going to go tolsey Gabbard and her keyword was hair. So people were searching Tulsi, Gabbard hair. What do you guys think? So looks like she practices. Wiccan. That's streak. It was some great. That's a witchy streak. No, it looks like she would be like a hell of a club deejay with that streak in there. I, I like to hear I wanna make quick point of order here. We'll, I'm not sure if it's most commonly searched phrase are like most commonly tweeted word along with that person's name on deferred. Or you, you are the Twitter came here making it's it's most commonly tweeted word in a pretty sure all those tweets about her hair came from Joe Biden. I'm sure. Just like who is this tolsey lady? She seems like she could real really hold me in row. If you know what I'm saying Joe's definitely worked up. She looked like rogue from X men, which is like a real childhood thing of mine. So I was pretty pretty revved up myself. I could feel for Joe Joe Biden's. Got a pair of scissors in his pocket just waiting. I did like how she had to correct Tim Ryan on a very obvious fact, which is that like, Taliban did not attack the United States and nine eleven Al Qaeda, probably something that somebody's that's been serving in congress for twenty years should know. He was on the defense counsel for like a dozen right? Yeah. Yeah. Just like well, it's minor thing. Yes, she was she I had my notes for her was not the best performance, but great exchange with Tim Ryan did put him in his place. What did you think west? Yeah. That same exchanges one that stuck out for me. I mean I, I can see how he like, you know, got to mixed up did correct himself, saying that the Taliban was, like, you know, aiding them and then and keeping them hidden and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, she definitely made him look like an idiot. That's in fairness to him. It's tough to keep track of all the wars that he's authorized over the years. So like it's very easy to mix those things up. A lot of signatures. All right. Next up is a Washington governor Asari Tulsi Gabbard. I think she's a congresswoman from Hawaii, or maybe Senator, I can't remember yet. Hawaii. All right. Next up. Washington governor, Jay Inslee and his most tweeted word with his name was hash. I love it. I have no idea. I have no idea where this coming from. But good for Jay. Good old, Jay. He's got to tell you this much about Jay's get a very square jaw. He's yo. Yeah. Presidential look about him. I was saying to west earlier. He's like, if Funkhouser was a linebacker, you know. You know like. Yeah. No, that's a very accurate description of his OSH. But I thought he was pretty good. What did you think what? He didn't strike me. I just kept thinking about, you know, him getting tickled by his by his wife, and she probably makes a really good hash. Maybe that's why. His favorite is favorite breakfast food from from Margie out there in Washington. I thought he was good. He was he was all is very green bra. He had a lot of green initiatives is trying to push. And he was also real brash going up like real anti-trump. And that was I thought he was the only one that really did that. So that was kind of interesting. I think he's the only one that mentioned Trump by name. Yeah. I if he wasn't the only one he, he did it the most forcefully at I'm surprised that. Nobody else did. That's, that's an easy way to score. Some serious points with the voters is to just tack the other guy. That's what we were saying last night. Is that somebody wants to steal those votes that gotta be ballsy with that? Yeah, I was actually surprised at how little they, they mentioned Trump, I think the over under for like the whole debate was like forty five, and I think the that the unders- Slade on everything everything was under. So if you bet over sorry, and we were kind of pushing one over last night. So sorry about that. All right. Moving on weight. I didn't listen to today's show you what did you guys push polka? Hana's tweeted, at least once okay. Sleepy. Oh well this'll be jobs for for some plus two tweets for sleep, Joe. You gotta get sleepy Joe. Honestly, not his best nickname. Sleepy Joe right. Exact now. There's a hilarious out there that you, can, you can bet on whether or not Joe Biden hugs, at least one of the female candidates, and in the description at the bottom, it says must at least put one arm fully around. It's fucking awesome. Comference. Yeah. No, he's, he's gonna see Harris and he's going to go in for like the double armed hug double double cheek kiss. Maybe a little smell on the back of the neck, oh, Robert Kamala hair walking prime rib for Joe Biden is just like. Yeah, he, he looks he looks like a cartoon cat looks at a bird and just drumstick. All right. That African American Indian hairs to it. Can't resist is exotic and he wants. All right. We gotta move on probably my favorite candidate tonight. John Delaney, and his most weeded words were debate and booed. He looks like he thought he was invisible mind visible. He kept trying to get airtime begging for airtime. They just wouldn't give it to fuck it'll areas. He was very very he was too docile. He let them get away with it. He just looked. He kinda pathetic when he would complain for more airtime. It was like the old Jim Webb back in two thousand sixteen two thousand fifteen when I think half of his words were just spent either bragging about a Mandy killed in Vietnam are just asking how come he wasn't getting to talk more often? It's like, well, Jim, maybe it's because you just won't stop talking about killing people. Right. And not even worse than that Delaney's. Not imposing figure like Jim Webb's. He's like, he looks like Fosse bear. Andy's bitch by the moderators Andy opened up. I'm saying I'm running on the double income tax. Double it up. Now, the worst opener, don't not with that. That's done deal strategy. Yes. So he there's no clear, more clear-cut example of the reason why men, grow out beards, when they go bald than Delaney. Bad need of like a late nineties middle reliever. Goatee just grow some sort of facial hair on their. Yeah. You're right. It would it would do wonders for him. That's shouldn't structures. Something else moving on. Liz, warren. You know, everybody knows her and her most Twitter words are pull and native Americans. She doesn't like to see that second one on there. So what did you guys think of her performance? She was intense I thought, Liz worn poll. I'm trying to think of what that could be coming from. I thought that she did a pretty good job. She did that thing where you see, like, Alabama does this a lot in early season games against like Florida am or something like that. She got two pretty big lead right off the bat. And then she was like she was like you know what? I'm just I'm so far ahead. I'm going to rest, the starters save my good material for later. Don't really need to talk that much. Yeah. I thought I thought that that was way more likable than than Liz with warned. That was my takeaway. Comparing the two of them, they were there, right next pretty close to each other. And they I, I liked amical which are way better, Liz war. Likable. Clue Koba char was like much, much nicer coming off. Warm was incredibly intense. She's like Terminator. Yeah. Yeah. Termine campaigning Terminator, that just says it oh, must be nice to be rich like over and over again. And that's, that's kind of hard she'll, she was fired up for sir. I, I don't know. I think I, I like I like people who are a little saltier than the people that come out and try to make nice with people next to them on these stages. So, yeah, we'll clover Shara think was more spittle Warren at the start. At least she came out swinging, and, and nobody checked her. So she, she. Yeah. Yes. Using the most season club Charles looks like she can do, great impersonation of anyone that talks like out of out of the side of their mouth, you know, like she. Yeah. Yes, you do a mean and aghast ire as speaking. Speaking of Koba jar. Her most Twitter words are homestead in Miami. So those aren't very good. I don't know what that's about. But yeah, I thought I thought she was like a mom, who, like doesn't guilt, you, if you get drunk in her house, that's like the vibe. Yeah. As long as you're safe at home. Honey? That's fair. I just can't watch for talk without thinking about the fact that she eats salad with a comb. That's so bizarre that, that move yet you haven't heard about this. I think I did hear about that. Yeah. Yeah. Look it up that actually should be the most tweeted word Globus, ours, just Cobb salad, except Dallas hauling, where it's comb salad. She she salad with, with a comb and it's such a weird move. And this is coming from guy that has eaten Chinese food using ballpoint pens as chopsticks before have you. Yeah. You have some wild eating habits. So that's, that's, that's a bizarre. One though, that makes you really think about loony. She is a lot of stuff. Yeah. Makes you really, really think. Freak. Yeah. Now I can't look into the same ever get after the comb. All right. Julia in Castro, and he had some bad ones for his Twitter ones trans short and Spanish, so PF. Tell us what you think about the short one there. That's no, that's quite a hat trick to shore. When he's not that short, I think is perfectly average height. I think what is you five, eight five nine something like that? Totally totally normal. I'm surprised. He had the trans went on there, because Cory Booker seemed like he really grabbed that bull by the horns, they're saying he looks like he may be oh, that's tough. That's that's, that's not saying, yeah. Yeah, that's why not wanna show up right? I thought that I thought he did pretty well it was so funny watching him when he was speaking Spanish, and just Beto looking like he wanted to kill them or correct them. I feel wanted wanted to correct Castro Spanish, at least twice. He's destroyed though, I definitely I definitely want to look to casper. I just could kind of imagine him like dressed in, like just some kind of leather outfit out on the streets. Celebrating. Kinda what I thought when I looked him in better had this, like had this, like, who's more Texan, and Hispanic off and, and Castro just absolutely destroyed Beto on that one. So, yeah, I didn't know that much about Castro going into it. But he seemed like he really had his shit together. He yeah. He was one of my favorites by far. Yeah, yeah, he was a great presenter, obviously season to the senators. I think you know, Liz Warren, Castro and Booker all very season. You could tell the senatorial experience coming through and Castro was real strong on civil rights, which was cool. Moving on Bego Rourke in his most Twitter term is war tax. I don't know what the fuck that means. That's fitting for Bego because no one knows what's going on with that guy. Beto introduced a war tax as part of his policy couple days ago. So first of all, if you, if you have something called a war tax like at least throw one word in there that people like. Call it war ice-cream tax because you're talking about war. Most people don't like it. Talk about tax most people don't like that either bet. So is proposing that we have a tax, every time we go to war to pay for the health care for veterans that come back after the fact, I don't know if those meeting have more wars, so you have to do more wars to do it. Essentially, I'm surprised at that is the most trending thing for Beto because there, I would say just like cocked would be my word that I would use for Beto tonight. If you go back six months ago he was the darling child of the Democrats when he was running against Ted Cruz. And tonight he looked like he was he was pissed off that he was no longer like the guy he was hoping that everybody would just for Beto. Oh, yeah. Fucking hands. The whole time like the pen he was holding. He was just wrecking his hands with that pen just like all over the insides of his fingers like in the pits of his hands. It was a really weird situation going on with the pen in the hands. He looked reminds me when I listened to talk. I just think he has memorized everything he's saying, that's the way the way I see about those like everything he's talking. He said he said at one point that he was going to defeat carbon in the air by putting plants in the ground to keep the carbon in the soil. So like. Is that is that even really possible? I don't I don't. I don't think that's really possible. Global warming with plants while I talked to a genuinely insane person on the street today about climate change in his recommendation was just plant more trees. So I think that maybe that's bet got that idea from maybe just talked to same guy that I did on his way in this dude was like just turned everywhere into a rainforest, and I was like I can think of a couple reasons why that might not work. Oxygen rainforests consume all, like they create a lot of oxygen but they consume it all because so much carbon shit grows in there. They're just rainforests just sucking their own dick all day this one big loop. Yeah. So I don't understand the plant thing. The other thing I noticed about Beto he just seemed like he's a guy that brings him acoustic guitar everywhere. I'm surprised that he didn't have one on his back just ready to break out Wonderwall the second that there was like a low in the conversation. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's also not aware that the channel Telemundo exists. Like anyone that isn't like that knows no English. It was going to be watching, but he was first he did the I'm gonna speak Spanish, I, I'm going to be the most Spanish to speak Spanish, I is that it was just a preemptive first minute was strong. Anyways, I think beta we've covered it. He was not, not a great showing. All right. Next up Tim Ryan, he's from Ohio. I think Senator or congressman from Ohio and his most Twitter phrase was bags bags under his eyes. Probably okay. Yeah. That's, that's another tough one form. Bet to had some bags to though. Oh, yeah. Bet to look, there's a picture. Somebody posted on Twitter and he looked like a vampire. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It seemed like Beto and Tim. Ryan stayed in a hotel and Bernie fans found out, which tell it was like Central American soccer fans and they went and they like pull the fire alarm on it didn't let them get any sleep at all. They're not left enough, not enough. Tim ryan. He had a rough showing because going into tonight. Really? All he had to do was just like let people know who Tim Ryan was. And I think at the end of the night, fewer people know who Tim Ryan is than at the star really really I kinda thought he did. Okay. I think I think is numbers are going to go up. Yeah. Also think he was. He was glad that he was, you know, next the Blasios. So it didn't look like such a freshly toll human. That's a big time advantage, being sat next to the Blasio, also Tim Ryan. I thought he did pretty good actually, especially as I answer where he looked like he was about to shit his pants. And then he told this excellent like factory floor heartwarming. Story. And that was I thought that was pretty good opening. But then he did get got by Tulsi Gabbard. So kind of kind of washed out in the end. But, but I thought I thought he probably gained some points with more middle middle ground voters. Actually, I think he definitely getting some points. Needs needs a rebrand. The name is, is too dull he needs at least one more letters his names to first names. It's tough right? He needs what he needs middle initial. I don't know what his middle name is. But, like Tim j Ryan. About as a candidate Tim z, Ryan. No get out of here z. What is he like a super villain from different planet? Exotic I. Right. Next up build the Blasio and his most Twitter phrase, was black son. So he brought that up pretty early early in the thought he thought he had the strongest like ending, like closing statement where he went over all that shit that he had done and New York and which all good stuff. I thought he had the strongest closing statement to blogs, yo is a guy that I think would be very, very good at ruling the entire rest of the United States, except for New York City, really just, well, there's that whole theory that if you that being mayor of New York City, actually, is a bad thing if you have hopes to be to, to serve national office because no matter what you do in New York, everyone's going to hate you, because the city is so fucked up the way that it said that it's also very unrelatable for the rest of the country. Yeah. You know, I mean like you know, because it's totally different than everywhere else. So it's like it's kinda hard. You know, he's trying to translate stuff. I thought like you performed. Okay. There's just something about the blassie. I think he's got just no shot in my opinion, doesn't always gangly. Yes. Yeah. It's all that stuff, right? The yeah. But Trump did it. And everybody said he didn't look like a president ever real quick. Every time I look at to Blasi oh, I just think mystery water hitting me on the sidewalk walking through New York City. That's that's one association. I will never be able to shake out of my head with them. Yeah. All right. Well, I don't think he's going anywhere. Anyways, you're stuck with them in New York City next up last candidate Cory Booker in his most Twitter phrase was Spanish and Bego, probably because he was just staring daggers at bay and big spoke. Spanish was crushed them with the video tweet. Yeah. That was hilarious him in him in Warren, just looked like he's an asshole. I don't know. I, I, he was kind of forgettable for me. Yeah. Really? Yeah. You got so much time. He did he got. I think he might have had the most time speaking, I was looking at, at the stats. I think that Chuck Todd actually had the fourth most time, speaking of anybody at the debate all the candidates, he said, the fourth most words out of everybody there. The questions that's not what you want out of a moderator, you want somebody that's like short sweet to the point you wanna Tony rally. There's really nobody better than staff at doing. Next one what's the show call? What's show round? The Horne around the horn. Yeah. He's, he's he needs to be doing the doing the next debate. He's can you call them up for Thursday. Do you know him I'll give a ring? Cory Booker, has some real chompers on his on his bottom teeth. He's got a real set of choppers. I don't if you notice that about him as a first time I've picked up on it. Looked like a fish that hasn't been discovered yet, like a real missing. CGI fish? That's like the boss at the end of finding nemo did. I thought I thought he was okay. He was forceful. He was definitely. And then after the debate there were interviewing him in the spin room. And he said that, if he was nominated or if he was asked to serve as vice president by whoever gets the nomination, he would say no to it, but his reason for saying, no was he thinks a woman should be vice president, not how oh my God. He does that all the time he always falls on the sword for women theoretical situation. It's like when he apologize for grabbing somebody's tit when he was fifteen that never told him that she didn't want him to grab his, did he just assumed that maybe she didn't wanted to grab his see apologize about it. Forty years later some shit like right? Himself out. He was he was before the debate started. I kind of pissed the myself because I was thinking about putting the one bet down was him plus four fifty to speak the most. Oh, you would cry ammos, definitely had the most their time. I also I agree, though. PF t he had a very angry is was my notes on him. Angry is an angry demeanor, very menacing like a prehistoric fish. I think that was a great breakdown. I would done with the debate recap PF. Thank you for joining stay safe in Miami. Brother, appreciate it. I did learn one other fun fact. Tonight, Elizabeth Warren her the font that she uses for her campaign. It's actually the or not the font. But the, the color of the of the letters in all her buttons, T, shirts things like that, it is the exact pan tone match of the statue of liberty. So shut up Darren reveal huge I actually can't believe Dan reveal got beat to that scoop. But yes, she did. The whole like color. Check on it. And so, don't call. It meant don't call lime green. It is statue of liberty grants. Lease anybody out there was interest. Yep. It's also real surprising that she had to have the exact same color on everything on all of her stuff. So surprising to me. All right. Let's, let's move it over to the lightning round. Scheme of lightning bolt. I up special counsel Robert Muller has agreed to testify before the House Democrats on July seventeenth this'll be the most anticipated testimony in quite some time. But many suspect he may just refer them to the report given how reluctant he's been to testify, but who knows. Maybe this will be the one that brings Trump down. Right was. No. This is not going to do anything different. It's gonna satisfy nothing. I think you're exactly right. He's going to be like this is all out there. I referred to my report, I will refer to my report, I will refer to my report. I think he's gonna say that a lot. He's gonna give no new nothing new is going to happen is. It's just they just want him in there for some reason, I don't really know why, but nothing's going to come of it move. See we'll see if any of the debaters on Wednesday had their way they would definitely beta said that he would make it his mission to convict Trump, if even if he wasn't in peach during this. We'll see what happens. Yeah. All right. Another one county employee Isla on the new way to embezzle money from her county government. She made up a fake person a fake intern to be exact. This is just a bold move, so Jodie Sutter, who is the former governor environmental specialists was fired back in two thousand eighteen from Henry county, Iowa, after it was found that she was seeking reimbursements for an intern that she completely made up as well as faking expenses. She could not prove to the tune of two hundred nineteen thousand dollars. So she's now suing for loss wages, saying, the audit of her was, was incorrect, somehow how's that awful to audit her? When she was making a fake person up also, like that's a shitty scheme like you have to at least have some kind of alibi. Right. You can't just have completely fake person. Yeah. They asked they asked her to like to prove that this person was real, and she just couldn't. And then obviously, she was saying that, she, you know, spent this on, whether it was office supplies or like a hotel expenses, or I don't know what it was. And I've actually seen this done before in a former career I had some guy was like literally fakey making fake receipts. And submitting them to the company to be reimbursed for for shit. So that was some guy that was some guy did that, that was some guy, not me. All right. I was not me. All right in space news, space x finally, caught one of the rocket nose cones over the ocean. This apparently makes them even cheaper to fly since they can reuse the parts, if they catch it before it hits the ocean. And then, you know, SpaceX already is crushing everybody in the space rates already has a cheap shit. So good news for them. Also NASA wants to start mining asteroids by twenty twenty two they already have an asteroid picked out. It's basically made of gold, completely, and they want to start drilling on that as soon as they can the asteroid has an estimated value of seven hundred Quin till you dollars. So that is about a trillion dollars for every person on earth worth again. Gonna then that going to bring down the price of glove. Doesn't do anything for everybody on earth. We just have more gold. Yeah. Yeah. Gold like copper, yeah, that's, that's, that's ridiculous. Gold, everything then yeah, yeah, I can imagine like all those those shows on the history channel like the mining shows for gold. Imagine those guys trying to get to an asteroid. They need they need to preemptively make asteroid mining show. That would be. Yeah. Oh, it'd be it the Houston. I think they already have one on that flex. Nice, check it out. Hey will you know how Japanese people live to be really old? Yes. Okinawa. Right. They lived to be like average of ninety. Yeah. Exactly. So how do they do it? I is it the same principle as dogs where the little ones live longer than the bigger ones? Or is it that they eat very special foods? I'm not sold. It isn't the same as dogs, but I also know that Japanese people, especially those in Okinawa like you mentioned, which has the highest concentration of people over the age of one hundred or centurions as they call them. No some shit. We don't about what and how to eat. So, you know, obviously, there's, you know, stay the a lot of fish and vegetables, but sweep secret sweet potato. Yeah. Let like bento boxes, I'll get into. So here's one secret. It's called a HARA hachi, boo. And the translation is stop eating when you're eighty percent full and that much translation to me is impossible. How do you do that? How do you calculate percents full? I don't know. They say that they. Literally push their plates away when they are still hungry. So you sitting there with a giant plate of Alfred oh, and you're, you're still hungry. And you're now you're gonna think I'm with right? I feel like I'm one hundred seventy percent full every time I feel like I made it I don't know. I don't know how you would actually calculate that. Louis CK joker. He's like, I know the mills not done until I feel like shit. That's pretty much how I go about things. They also eat seven different fruits and vegetables a day and eighteen different foods day almost two hundred different foods week, so a lot of variety. So if you wanna live long into the dementia caused by your antidepressant medicine stop eating when you're eighty percent, full, Anita large variety of healthy foods in lesser portions. You know, something we all knew, but just is not going to have. Nice. I that does it for the show today. Right. Was yeah. That's hard factor. Thank you, PF commenter for finally making a long overdue appearance on the show, you produce and for not inviting us to Miami with you. We would really hate it some time, down there in the land of nine and ten with the company card. Maybe next time we're not bitter, don't worry tomorrow. We will have special guest Kate from zero block thirty discussed the second round of the democratic debates. So be sure to tune in for that we have been loving the engagement for be sure to Addis, if you see something funny, on Twitter share the show with your friends and enemies, follow us at heart factor news, on Instagram, Twitter, and now go out there and add, as many ingredients to your AAA Brita, as you can, if you wanna live longer and has always have a great fucking day. See you tomorrow. That way. Play it. TV.

Twitter Tim j Ryan Miami Joe Joe Biden Liz Warren Trump Beto Cory Booker Asari Tulsi Gabbard Senator Washington John Delaney Jim Webb Randy savage New York City United States Jay Inslee Joe man
Virginia Hates Tyrants

Radio Atlantic

44:32 min | 2 years ago

Virginia Hates Tyrants

"This episode of Radio Atlantic is brought to you by. At and T. Business Edge to edge intelligence from at and T.. Business gives you the power to see. Virtually every every corner of your growing business industry leaders know that the key to innovation and growth is to draw inspiration from other industries. Stay tuned throughout the episodes. Here how a sports league is taking notes from brick and mortar retail ooh This is radio antic. I'm Isaac Dove Air on Tuesday night in Prince William County Virginia Democrats celebrated for the first time in a generation. They have complete fleet control. The state government every executive office both Senate seats now both chambers of the state legislature all controlled by Democrats. I was there in Prince William County on election night. It's abandoned hours drive south of DC at the edge between the blue northern suburbs and the red rural south. Here's Taulealo one of the areas re elected delegates. My district was one of the hardest districts on the on the side of Virginia the northern side of Virginia and for the people to elect back into office. I am so humbled and grateful. I always race and the races of other Democrats celebrating on Tuesday. Get an unusual amount of national attention. The state votes off years so people like me look to it to understand where the country is in the years before and after a presidential race and that fact isn't lost on I'm ecstatic. We did Virginia spoke. We send us. ooh NAMI message to sixteen nine hundred ten DNC chair. Tom Perez was also the election night party making the case. That Virginia was a prelude to twenty twenty the fifty stand today on radio they were going to talk about Tuesday's results with another national figure at that event Virginia Senator Tim came. You'll of course remember. Cain as Hillary Clinton's running mate in two thousand sixteen but he's also a former DNC chair and a twenty five year veteran of Virginia Politics From Richmond Mayor to Lieutenant Governor to Governor to now a US senator the morning after the election. We caught up with him in his office on Capitol Hill looking at the results from the night before he was a very happy man feeling cautiously optimistic that the way his State voted means that next November will look better for Democrats than in his own. Experience did in two thousand sixteen. Take a listen Senator Tim Kaine. Thanks for joining us here on Radio Atlantic. You Bet is a glad to be with you so we were there last night. It was pretty excited mood for Democrat. Right what is your taking this in. You've been in Virginia politics longtime yeah. How does it process for you? It was amazing. I mean this. This was the last step of essentially a twenty year effort to assemble a big picture. Whereas like the Jigsaw puzzle? We when I got into state politics after eight years as a non-partisan local officials in two thousand we had nothing. I mean we absolutely had nothing nothing no statewide Deep Minorities and our congressional delegation state legislature electoral votes. We hadn't had him since. Nineteen sixty four and now progressively okay. We could win. A governor's race but oh well you can't win a Senate okay and we want to send you can't win. Electrodes we did can't win. Take the majority in Congress we did. This was the last taking the majority in the to steakhouses which because of the redistricting was done by Republicans in two thousand eleven they had a trifecta both houses. I'm sorry one house And a governor these receipts that they drew and so last night it was an amazing finish to a twenty year effort effort where we've gone from nothing. Now the Democrats basically have all the majorities the key levers of power. That's been for a couple of reasons. It's been because when when we had the chance to govern we've done well when Virginians like hey I like that but it's also you you can't look at last night without just seeing this massive repudiation of president and trump after two thousand sixteen where we won. Virginia the seventeen results in our state races gubernatorial in house were great. Are Eighteen results my reelection than flipping three house seats from red to blue. They'd been read for most of the last fifty years that was great last night continues and it was a massive repudiation of this president. It seems to me like the last four elections for you have been a roller coaster. Emotions Ya two thousand sixteen. Obviously you're very involved in that one. That did not go the way you are right to. Although although it's funny I mean we knew very early. We were going to win Virginia and we were going to win. Virginia by more than Obama did in two thousand twelve. I spent my whole life trying to get Virginia to catch up right. So the fact that Virginia Genu- would be in such great shape. I did think after we knew we win. Virginia we're probably GONNA win this race but while we were moving ahead others weren't necessarily standing still yeah. It was good Virginia News for. Yeah but not good the rest of the news and sixteen obviously ends in a long night. That didn't go the way you wanted to very rough night and then processing it and then two thousand seventeen. You have races that do go the way you right into in Virginia twenty eighteen. Like you said you win reelection in a race that it. When it was getting started people thought was going to be actually much more competitive yet? They were going to try to make an example out of me on the ticket. Yeah and that didn't occur occur and you want and you won by by. I don't know the summer of two thousand eighteen rivalry stopping package and we were able to flip the focus of Barista Flipping House seats. And and we you know three dynamic women. Two of whom are first time. Candidates elected in districts that have been read for most of the last fifty years so eighteen. Eighteen was a great night but but again there was something about last night because it was sort of the last piece in this puzzle in our legislature has been blocking us in Virginia for doing meaningful things on gun safety even after suffering through Virginia Tech and Virginia Beach and so much gun violence in blocking raising the minimum wage blocking the equal rights amendment tried so hard to block us from expanding Medicaid with Republicans in control disenfranchising voters rather than making it. Easier for people to vote. Had either how stayed in Republican majority. We wouldn't have been able to move forward on the things I've just mentioned but now with both houses in Democratic Hands Anti Democratic governor we have the ability to to to do even more than we have done and respond to the concerns that people have. and that's really sweet. Does it make you think about the contrast to where you were on election night. Two Thousand Sixteen. You know. It's funny I don't i. I really get Virginia politics. I'm not an expert anybody else's politics you know any other states. He or or even national politics. I get Virginia politics. I get we are these single best turnaround project in the United States in the last fifty years and so the only the only thing that that I think is sort of relevant about it as hey Democrats you WANNA model. We Wanna see how do things. Virginia's got a good model for you and I feel really really proud of that. So Yeah I think less about sixteen than I think about twenty and twenty two and twenty four. I think that there are things that we've done in Virginia and it's it's this combination of we govern. Well when people trust us to govern we recognize that trump is the wrong person for this country and against our values I say look. We have a weird state seal in Virginia. It's victorious woman standing atop a deposed tyrant we hate tyrants. Our state was born out of opposition. Tyranny we we still hate tyrants we can see him coming a mile off and we reject them and that's one of the reasons that trump is so unpopular in Virginia is that we've seen narcissistic anti-science bigoted bullies too often in our past and we decided to put away childish things. We want something different. That's the second feature. But but then the third feature going forward as we do really really well now in suburbs. That's been the Virginia Story. When when Mark Warner was elected governor in two thousand one? He did unusually well in rural Virginia running. No one against a suburban Republican nominee. I had to run against a rural Virginia nominee in two thousand and five evidence. Like I'M NOT GONNA clean up in rural Virginia against a rural opponent. I've gotTA figure out a way to make the suburbs really competitive for us and and we did and five five and one Prince William in one loudon and pretty much. Everybody who's been winning Statewide Sans Jim Webb Barack Obama. You know Mark Warner Terry McAuliffe. Ralph nor them has pursued this suburban strategy investing heavily in the suburbs that are now sixty five percent of the population is is suburban and we expanded our map last I we. We'd been getting to Latin Prince William but last night Chesterfield and Stafford. We're expanding the suburban map and that's a lesson for DEM's nationally. Is it a less when in two thousand fourteen. When Mark Warner was running reelection to the Senate His race was surprisingly close and was dismissed. Afterwards there's a fluke but I think in reflection look like actually premonition of what was coming in twenty-six. TM was. Obviously you don't like Donald Trump's the president. You tried to make that not happen. Yeah I think he's done surprised me. I told whole people for one hundred and five days. This is exactly what would happen. So but but is there a level of wakeup call. That happened for the Democratic Party. and Re Theon. How do things that came because we sort of hit rock bottom as a party with donald trump getting elected? I you know I I. I don't think we hit rock bottom and I think a danger for DEM's don't over correct I mean in two thousand sixteen. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. It's really hard to do that for a third term. Dem's don't do that. It's hard to do that for a woman it's hard to do that with Russia and the FBI putting their thumb on the scale against you. You don't have to turn everything over now. I will say though. There was a wakeup call. Because the consequences of trump's election are so dramatic but You know picking a lesser qualified man over a qualified woman. It's not exactly the first time that that's happened American life and I do worry a little bit the party. She should do a lot of things differently and capture energy and excitement. I've been in the way we have but you don't have to turn everything topsy turvy and I do worry a little bit about the party over correcting I think. Virginia you know it's not like we changed you stuff. In Virginia. We fourteen was a tough year because it was the Obama. Midterm and DEM's were having trouble in the Obama midterm in Virginia and elsewhere. But we didn't turn everything topsy. Turvy survey we. We have had a path that has led us to generally success and so one not always two thousand nine wasn't good force. We lost the governor's race then but we haven't lost the state raise now in ten years state or federal. So we've got. We have a path were pursuing it. Young diverse problem solvers recognizing people's People's dissatisfaction with this president when the most known American does not stand for the values that we think are fundamentally American inclusion and equality and can do optimism. He's divisive Jason and kind of pessimistic. Then we got to take advantage of that of dissatisfaction and that was a huge factor in the race. Is it just a Amir. Perhaps of what happened. Two Thousand Ten and two thousand eleven in politics nationally where the Republicans were doing well and then Obama was reelected acted in two thousand twelve. Right yeah that was that was a period where you were DNC chair you were thinking about. It does seem like things are going well for Democrats when it comes to elections in the the last two years but what does that mean. Could President Trump get reelected next year in the same way. Well look. That's a fair question in the end so no complacency recency. I will say that the one difference that we're we've really worked hard on in Virginia and I hope national you're seeing too is in the the Obama Election of Oh aid and even between eight and twenty twelve. The Democrats built themselves into a really good presidential popular election party there. Republicans on the other hand were working on local races and things like that because they realize they're not a good presidential popular election party so they want to do well in local races. They WanNa get the electoral electoral college advantage. I do think DEM's have woken up to that. So what you saw in Virginia with not just state races but look when you have Prince Wayman loudon changing the these suburban suburban counties fundamentally changing the direction of the boards of supervisors in school boards diverse progressive. That suggests that we're learning the lesson and we're not just focusing. Listen on the presidency. We're focusing on building out the entire the entire team. There were a number of firsts in the elections this week And we have the first Muslim state Senator Virginia House personally Muslim woman right and local elected official in Virginia What does that mean for for what the Party is at this point if you were if you could go back and talk to mayor elect Tim Kaine Richmond and nineteen ninety? Eight What you say about where? What would he think about where the party is right now? He would he would say the party is where he dreamed it would be. I mean I was the mayor of a city that's predominantly the minority in nine hundred ninety eight. It was majority minority and it was very unusual that I was the mayor of that city at that time but I was the mayor because 'cause you know them are minority community. Had the grace to extend to me. We trust you when the white majority never extended that grace to a minority candidate in the hundreds of years. That was that preceded my time as mayor. So I are party is a party where everybody's welcome at the table and nobody is pushed away from the table. Will somehow some. It causes them onced because they might see new faces around the table and they think they're losing something as a result but what virginians unions have learned is. Wait a minute. We're not losing anything. We're gaining in Prince William where we were last night. The Guy Beaten the Senate race last year patent attened disorder before trump this hard anti immigrant style of campaigning and he wants some elections that way but you know what the county saw the results of and said. That's not what we one in last night was a repudiation of it and a statement of. Here's who we are as a Commonwealth. Here's who we are as a party here so we should be a country. You can come sit around the table. We'll all be around. The table took special pleasure in announcing that that seat had flipped to a Democ- did and you said in your speech that now now Prince William is on the same page same paragraph in the same century As the voter has its citizens. Yeah I was talking to Tom. Perez the DNC DNC chair. And the party. Last night. He said that nights like Tuesday night. Give him faith in humanity again Where where is humanity? Where's the country at this point? Yeah well it's a it's a challenging time. I you you know you try to grapple with understand the the situation I. I've been thinking a lot about the book of job recently. When job was going through trials he he thought I've been such a good person? So is it just all pointless I'm gonNA suffer just pointlessly and neighbors said we thought that was a good person but if he's suffering must've done something wrong but the reader of the story knows it's near those things the rest of the story is jobs being tested and the test is will he stay true to his values or not you can look at. US history is a series of tasks. Yes we have a set of values no person is above the law the equality principle free press freedom of religious expression and the question is will we stay true to those principals when we're tested and and trump in a very open way is challenging many of these principles. I'M GONNA hold myself above Y don't have to follow it. I'M GONNA kick. Muslims comes around rather than recognize awe. Going to kick the press around. We're going through a test right now and the question is will we be true to our principles or will we abandon him. It's the same tests. The job faced in at the end of the book. Joe which is a wonderful piece of literature. You know some believe it in errands but even if you are not a Bible believer you'd have to marie-joe and say that is a beautiful piece of literature with a profound insight about psychology. He holds true to his principles through the test and then what was lost to him is restored. I think this is the moment that our countries living in we lived in moments. Like this. So America's job. I think America's being tested right. Now we're going through a test and we go through them. You know civil the war and civil rights era we go through tests and the question is are we going to hold fast to the ideals of equality and no person above the lawn free press and free freedom of religious religious expression or we gonNA compromise on those things in. I believe like in the book of Job. When you hold fast to principles you can be tested But there can be a good outcome and I am completely of the belief that the chapter were living in now is going to have a positive outcome. There's been pain and there's going to be more in my view but I think the outcome is going to be. We held fast to our principles were sadder but wiser but we help faster our principles and we've continued to show or the ability to move forward. Why am I such optimism? Because I see what's happening in Virginia. Yeah my father-in-law was elected fifty years ago to govern Virginia. Fifty years ago Monday just two days ago. Your father in law the former governor of Virginia Lynnwood bins that you married the daughter of a former governor and then became later and he and he was a Republican who ran on a pro integration platform. Right in the teeth of the segregationist dixiecrats and he got elected and he integrated the schools Virginia and then he got frozen out of politics for the rest of his life. He's ninety six years old now. He stuck to principle and for a long time he tried to run for the Senate in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and finished third in a four way Republican primary the guy who built the modern Republican Party but held fast to principle. And Look where Virginia's now first African American governor. Doug Wilder put an electoral votes behind Barack Obama. Tom And away twelve this dramatic political transformation. So when I look at where we are as a nation and and what might happen. I have a pretty good analogous August situation right here where we've stuck to principles that were important and while there's been paying along the way We are on an arc that I like and I think the same things that happened in the country. Is it going to be different. When trump's name is on the ballot next year it will be different but trump's it's name was on the ballot this year when he went to Kentucky and said look if if the if Bevan doesn't win they're going to say it's on me? You can't let them do that Eh. Trump's name was on the ballot in Kentucky Trump's name was on the ballot. There's JD but but you're right when you of how he operates as a culture personality around politics so much to help the one And and it just seems like that will make a big difference in how things thanks go in the same way but I think to a higher degree now that it made a difference. Barack Obama being on the ballot doesn't eight and two thousand twelve versus. Yes we're Democrats in two thousand ten and fourteen. It's a yeah I know I think trump has made it even more about him. You have to assume it well and I look I don't I don't say dams are necessarily GonNa win and twenty twenty. I think I think trump could win. I think that the races the DEM's race to lose but trump could clearly win. And I you know I hope again. The dams learn the right lessons from mm-hmm seventeen eighteen nineteen sixteen to learn the right lessons from sixteen seventeen eighteen nineteen and then apply them in twenty but We we you should feel after last Night Kentucky and Virginia special we should feel that we've got momentum All right. We're going to step aside for a moment after the break cannon. I discuss impeachment. What is impact was on swing districts what it will mean for twenty twenty and what his Republican colleagues in the Senate are really saying behind the scenes? Stay with us This episode of Radio Atlantic is brought to you by business. My name is willing. 's I'm across industry expert helping business leaders transfer ideas and processes from one sector to another to learn how to fan controlled. Football League took inspiration from the retail sector. I spoke to F- CFL co-founder Grand Cohen. All Forms of entertainment experience are going to become are already becoming more interactive. Our model is really. How do we get fans to engage medicial perspective and then most importantly the fans the ones action making the decisions for their eighteen? Keep listening after the episode to hear more about technology behind the League What do you think the twenty twenty candidates Tate's Democrats? Broadly should learn from what happened here. Well you so you know I would. I would say trump's increasing unpopularity not with his core base but with independence and people who could decide to go another direction. There's a lot of voters out there that we can get. I don't trump forty four forty five percent in two thousand sixteen of that thirty five percent is rock solid forty-six okay so of that thirty five percents rock-solid but there's ten or eleven who are very much touch and play And so we need to. We need to do that. We need to recognize that though I think too often. They're sort of an effort on the ten or eleven. That ignores energizing our own people and so. I've always run campaigns with what I call ven diagram theory that there's an overlap between things the Kim's care deeply about and independence care deeply about and you try to run the race in that overlap where people care deeply not in the mushy middle run on. Thanks keep people care deeply about and dams and independence care deeply about many of the same things they they're climate science believers they believe in equality including algae bt equality. Run in the intersection. Where Dem's independence care deeply about stuff So I think we need to do that but I think we need to avoid on some conditioning where we're pushing people away one way to read the results of last night. Is that the impeachment conversation so far has either helped Democrats or not registered as a factor. In right way right right. Is that the way you think things will hold it. That's a really good question we certainly saw as we were 'cause I did forty events for sixty candidates I think and we were talking about their polling. The our legislative candidates candidates polling in September pre impeachment inquiry and then late October. Trump's numbers went down so the impeachment inquiry wasn't hurting them with the public. It was hurting trump with the public. Now did it increase Republican turnout. Sometimes your numbers can go down but it can energize people. We'll have to do a little more or reading of the tea leaves to figure that out but I think you can vary safely. Say that the impeachment inquiry did not hurt Democrats in swing districts tricks in a battleground state like Virginia. You won the race in this win district. I'm not talking about the Blue District and I'm not talking about the red but in the swing ones where we had to pick pick up two seats to win. Trump's numbers went down in the last month and that was in could be impeachment. It could be abandoning the Kurds. It could be you know the revelation of the campaign to sack this career ambassador. I mean it could be a million things but the impeachment inquiry did not hurt dams and arguably. I think probably it helped us little ask you have good relationships with a lot of your colleagues in the Senate Republican colleagues. I am an institutional we ought to be working across the aisle together. There are a lot a lot of people who talk often about how Republican senators know that. There's an issue here that is that they are uncomfortable with their currently trying. Yeah thread something along. The lines of the what trump did with Ukraine was bad but not impeachable Jeff Flake. Your former colleague from Arizona had an op-ed a few weeks ago that said if there were secret ballot Sergio's right two thirds vote to get rid of of president trump and I think it's twenty or thirty Republicans. Yeah is that. Is that a fair assessment of where things are. I think so. I have been saying something very similar to what flake had been saying. Aim for some time. which is that two thirds of Republican senators? Now one third thing trump was fantastic. They sincerely believe that. Okay but two-thirds are deeply worried about him his character judgment his emotional volatility his ethics kind of people. He has around him how he acts in what he says. They're really worried about it. But they're they're deeply worried about the trump voter turning on them and so they would probably many of them be glad to have Mike Pence's president rather than and president. Trump pence was congressman. kind of one of them. He's not going to tweet out negative stuff about them they know trump has no loyalty to them so but but they cannot ah yet see a path to even stand up and rebuke president trump in their words without making the trump voter man and the the trump voter is now the GOP. Voter they There is there is essential complete overlap in those two categories trump has has burrowed into Now completely occupies the GOP. I wonder how it is for you talking with your colleagues. And knowing that that's where their minds are not where their public statements are because it leads to among reporters a level of cynicism when without betraying any specific off-the-record conversations that I've had when off the record conversations with people do not match up to their public statements. So you've asked a really interesting question. How does it make me feel when there's a mismatch it makes me feel better than if they all sincerely believe trump was grain? Because if there's a mismatch between what I know they believe in what they're saying that's an opportunity if they all thought trump is exactly what we think the President United States should do. I be be depressed. But when a big chunk of them they don't believe that's what the president should do and they're increasingly. You know boy on the situation with the Kurds win. Senator McConnell Rights Washington Post op. Ed saying the president made big mistake. That's not just about the Kurds. That's him going public in the post list distancing himself from the president when the president had to reverse field on bringing the G. Seven to drought. He didn't do that because of the media or the Democrats because the Republicans said are you kidding. This is ridiculous have you and so. They're they're starting to be a willingness and I'll tell Ya Isaac for us on the Democratic side who do have good relations on the other side Archer is not to convince anybody what to thank our chore is to give them a path to say what they already think what we know they already think to the election results else of this week. Inform that you think them. Have you heard Republican not yet. No not yet. It's still too soon having this conversation with you but it does suggest look trump will drag you down you know. I mean trump is is is posing danger to important values of the country but he he also could destroy the GOP and and they have to grapple with. Do they want that to happen. There is a price to loyalty and loyalty is damaged to a country. We love but loyalty is also damaged party that many of these people have spent their whole is working to promote promote. What if there's a shut down in the middle of all the well? I don't think there's going to be and you know I kind of the right over. The last last few years in American government is when Yang's can get ridiculous they will will. Here's it's the principle of why I jumped to punch line and then then work backwards and some of the some of the steps in my math. I can't show you can jump to the endpoint which is the the shutdown last year was bad for trump trump for the Republicans and they know it and we know it and most importantly they know that we know so. It's not going to be good for them going into a big election year here and they know that and so that means. I believe we're going to get to a good path. Now I want to get to appropriations and omnibus and a year. Maybe like the work of government work. And you're talking about continuing resolutions. I I'm not worried about shut down so much as I'm worried about. You know kind of slack budgetary practices that don't really look in the continuing resolutions driving looking in the rear view mirror. I WANNA drive looking in the windshield and and drive forward rather than just do what I did last year. So that there's some danger of that I think but I don't think we're going to get into the shutdown space. We were talking about politically what you think. The election results mean for going forward. What we're seeing as we're recording? This is that in Kentucky which is a good night for Democrats it seems and the Beshir's seems to have defeated the incumbent. Republican Governor Matt. Bevin that Bevan is refusing to concede he's pushing for a recount who it doesn't it's not clear where that will go right right is that maybe a preview of of what we might have in the head to do you worry about. Do you worry about what would happen. If trump would lose. I worry I will hear more generally really I worry about what. President trump does what his back against the wall. What evidence comes out on impeachment unfavorable? COULD HE SAKHA LATA. People could he engage in new cruel acts against kicking minorities around the T to shift. Attention could get. Could he blunders into a war. We shouldn't being I mean. I think there's a lot that's unpredictable right now. Do you worry about what happens if he's acquitted by the Senate which seems like barring some changes what we were just talking about if the house does vote to impeach him. which looks like it's going to happen? I mean making predictions is very dangerous thing but the likeliest scenario right now seems to be that the house will vote to impeach him. And it'll it'll go to. The Senate was an your and he would be quick. I just worry about. He is generally a person who is very unpredictable. He cares about one thing himself off and if he feels threatened than he will do things to help himself at the expense of everybody else including the nation and so that could assume so many different forms. That's the that is the one they kind of keeps me up at night is is. There's a lot of unpredictability right. Now there's unpredictability about impeachment in greenhouse and what new evidence will come out. The politics of impeachment is unpredictable but the unpredictable worries me is what president trump does when he feels threatened because he is going to preserve himself it even if it it messes up the country and if he were to lose do you think about what would happen then. I don't I don't jump and think about like well. What would would he do? And what would we do. And how would you move around the chessboard. And but I just worry about his Again he will. He will promote himself at the expense of every every person and every principal In including you know the his oath of office to uphold the constitution and do the right thing for the country and he'll put himself I and so I do worry about what forms that may take. But I'm jumping ahead because you're it. Sounds like you're also nowhere near comfortable and the idea that Democrats kratz would have an easy race against him next year. I think if we assume it's going to be easy. We make a big mistake so I do think the races are to lose. We should win just like in two thousand eighteen eighteen. You know it was a really interesting race because some of the factors like economic factors were pretty strong but I gave an analysis a couple of days after unwanted 2018. Not really about my riches generally and I said it was a it was a man shall not live by bread alone kind of election. Some of the economic signs were strong but there was a profound and unease among the American electorate about the way this president is manifesting. He is the most known American in the world so who he is sends a signal about who we are but what American said in that race with a good economy is. That's not who we are and we want to send a clear message of repudiation that don't think this is who we ars country and we saw that same message so I think that I think the racists ours to lose we we have a good momentum and last night shows that but if we we assume it's going to be easy I mean. Look this guy who we already know. We'll pull out all the stops. I mean he'll try to get Ukraine to help. He openly encouraged Russia to help. He says that there was no collection interference. When there was he you know he he will do anything to win? And we have to not Democrats we WANNA serve. Trump wants to win. We WanNA win. You're a white man who is a democrat. Yeah that is not statistic radio audience just to make sure that we as an audio Adm Ken Democrats get white men white men who aren't younger voters to vote out for them. It wasn't where things weren't sixteen that hasn't been overall. I think so. Let me look. How do you do that as someone who has done that? Not just in the votes that you have cast yourself for Democrats but has convinced voters over the years about for you. Yeah I mean it's presence you you know Joe Manchin says I don't care how much it don't care how much you know to the know how much you care and so One One Thang. When when we celebrate that New People are now welcome at the table and we have to celebrate that we need to keep our foot on that equality pedal and keep it absolutely floored? That's the key virtue of this country. We have to acknowledge that some people when they see new folks come to the table they think. Oh I must be losing something now. They're not and that worry. Is usually a transitional. Worry it's like oh well it's actually working out okay but we have to remember always to make our case to everybody and under and sometimes you make your case to everybody look. I spent a ton of time in Appalachia last year my own race and I still didn't do that well and I pledge now people like me. They're they're glad when I come. They voted for me yet. But I'm gonNA keep doing it. Will they ever vote for you. Oh Yeah I believe so and I believe they're you know some of their kids do and will but you have have to go out and really make the case. Put yourself in an Appalachian voters shoes. They don't see economic opportunities in their communities that others are experiencing northern Virginia. They turn on TV. So you're you know you just watch network. TV The the shows are about you know wacky waitresses actresses in New York. And you know and big city police chiefs. They never see a representation of themselves in popular culture. That's kind of like a lift you up and and we WANNA pay attention you so they do feel that was part of the theory right of why Roseanne was when that show came back then it was the first time that there was in a longtime a show that was about working class Americans. Yeah right and that chose Emmett now. It's the connors right since she I and I get it You you live in a part of the country where your broadband access is so bad. And that's like a highway and electricity. Now you know you if if you don't have good connectivity than you are basically like living in a valley without electric power or county without roads in twenty nineteen so we have obligation to not only go make the case but then produce. That's one of the things that I'm really proud about in Virginia. When Virginia expanded abandon Medicaid that usually benefited parts of the state that never vote democratic last year governor North and others did big transportation? Package that was largely for western Virginia. GENU- the Western Virginia. Legislators who'd been complaining about transportation for years voted against it but it was Democrats from Urban Virginia that put the votes oats in place to solve to try to solve rural Virginia's transportation. Problems so anybody who says to me. Dem's don't care about rural Virginia Rural America. Say you know actually can i. Can I show you that. We actually care. More about the healthcare needs and the infrastructure needs and the education needs a row voters then Republican legislators legislators from those communities. Do I think got a good case to make so you have to make it. You can't be unrealistic. That having made the case in one election cycle you know the Son Is GonNA part the clouds and everybody's going to immediately start voting for you. You just gotTa be present and you gotTa make that case I. Let's just one more here. I spend a lot of my time I'm on the campaign trail Yep There are so many Democrats who are running that when better Aurora dropped out that now made the Democratic field ah equal to the previously largest primary field ever so that was Republicans six so so it's not like there's been a shortage of Democrats running for president but Do you ever think about what it would have been a few had run. Not Really I had this. I do things by feel and when I walked into the office. Where in my office right now? When I walked in here the day after I got back from two thousand sixteen my feeling was I think the Senate is going to be incredibly edible important to save in this country in the next few years and here I have this opportunity to be in a body that will be called on to save the country? Now will we rise to the challenge. UH-HUH YOU'RE NOT TVD. But I really felt like the Senate will be necessary to save this country in the next few years. I know what it is to run for president. I haven't done it but being being on the ticket and if you do that it's all in so. You're a little bit of an absentee. I mean you're you're a lot of absent. You're you're not of your colleagues who are running for president have just basically written off the fact that there I mean and so when we were trying to get out of a shutdown last year that was really important Virginians I I was here working on the guts of that and the back. Pay Bill as we're trying to decide what to do if an impeachment increase comes around if I was a declared presidential candidate I we'll have zero ability to go to a Republican. Say what's best for the country. They would view me as well. You know you're running for president. It's a partisan thing so I have this opportunity. That Virginians have entrusted me with at a moment in time where I do think the Senate is in a way is going to be sort of needed to save the country going back to my job analogy as were being being tested and being tested to stay true to our principles. The Senate is really important in that so I kind of felt like as long as donald trump is president. I have got to be right here. And that's why I ran for reelection in two thousand eighteen and I knew when I ran for reelection I wasn't going to run and then turn right around and say okay. Now I'm running for president. I did I needed to be here. I Need Elizabeth Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders and all that right. Here presidential candidates play a really valuable row too because in addition to trying to be president. They're going out in articulating. What's right about us? What's wrong about president trump? That's an important thing to do. I'm glad they're seventeen people doing that. But I have a role right here. That I think is is is important and it's only going to get more important in the next few weeks and months and I've got to be here focused on that all right senator. Tim Kaine Great. Thanks is there yeah. You Bet that'll do it for this week of radio. Atlantic antic thanks to Kevin Townsend for producing editing this episode and to Catherine Wells the executive producer for Atlantic podcasts. Our theme music is the Battle Hymn of the republic as interpreted by GIANBATTISTA. And if you want to support the show and all the work we do here at the Atlantic the best way is with subscription just go to the Atlantic Dot Com slash. Rush Radio Subscribe. Thanks for listening I hope you enjoyed the episode of radio. Atlantic brought to you by. At and T.. Business my name is homes links. Thanks I help. Business leaders transfers solutions from one sector to another to see cross industry innovation in action. I've come to L. A. to meet with a fan controls cookbook league in Multi Platform Life Action. League where fans are in charge. co-founder Grand Cohen says a number of industries. Inspired inspired the League's operations. Everything from other sports leagues to East sports to reality competitions even traditional brick and mortar retail. Modern modern retailers rely on a strong network to stay connected to their customers both in the physical space and online. 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A new frontier

Moonrise

47:59 min | 2 years ago

A new frontier

"The Moon Rise podcast is sponsored by Lighthouse from the Moon to Mars Lighthouse is proud to support NASA and the space industry with the right tools technology science and innovation they need for their most critical missions. Learn more light owes dot com slash space It was two years after Linden Johnson's sputnik hearings the same are all hall of the Senate Caucus Room was now our ringing with activity again reporters clicked up three flights of stairs by the Rotunda of the Russell Senate building they filed in through the heavy wooden doorways they snatched up seeds and spots along the wall of that grand `and room television cameras were stationed in the back corner that were huge and loud and took several people to operate so there was a different senator now standing behind the long Mahogany table a little shorter than Johnson thinner younger in the American flag hung off to his right side. The cameras started rolling reporters held their pens over pads of paper waiting any me moment for it to start. I am today announcing my candidacy for the presidency of the United States January second of nineteen nineteen sixty John F. Kennedy then senator of Massachusetts announces the he plans to run for president of the United States. This is Keith Scott of the Senate historical office office. The presidency is the most powerful office in the free world through which leadership can come may more vital life for all of our people. She seemed seemed not very polished. He seems a little unsure of himself. Is Looking is no cards and this kind of uncomfortable fidgeting and he's so awkward in it are scented the hopes to the globe around us freedom and a more secure life. He doesn't exhibit any the of the vigor and confidence that I think of when I think of historic. JFK speeches don't win the presidential nomination. Will you accept the vice presidency. I shall not any condition the candidate annotate vice president. If I fail in this endeavour I shall return and serve a in the United States Senate and yet ten months later she would be elected the next president of the United States he beat out Lyndon Johnson for the Democratic craddock nomination Johnson a fellow senator more than that the Senate majority leader a man who commanded this marble room during the sputnik hearings with charisma and sheer force of will I think that from Johnson's perspective he saw jfk as a political rival. I think that they both recognized in the other that they had ambitions political ambitions for the White House and so they were rivals to fairy different individuals with very different backgrounds which brought them to the United States Senate and I think think that some of those tensions caused by their political rivalry probably carried over that is carried over when Johnson became vice president and those tensions carried over to when Johnson pushed Kennedy to the moon. I'm Lillian Cunningham with the Washington Post. I want to say that there. We're not be under any conditions. The an intervention in Cuba United States on fourth basically when Cuba is not one in the United States and take it is from south on us to be found out there asking themselves if life exists on any of the planets tenants provide as irs questions is one of the major missions of NASA the National Aeronautic Sense Space Administration There's a myth that's grown up around President Kennedy's decision to go to the moon. We've memorialized his bowl golden inspiring moonshot speeches. We've credited him almost as the architect of this idea and yes he did as president commit the United States to that goal but the question we've been working our way towards this whole time is why somebody gave him that idea he she didn't dream it up on his own who and what made JFK say let's do it. We have come finally to the part of our story where the wild sci-fi fantasy of sending humans to the Moon becomes an actual government program and to understand that last piece of the puzzle requires picking up here two years before the election of John F. Kennedy when NASA was created the National Aeronautics Sense based administration NASA officially got up. I've been running on October first nineteen fifty eight so almost exactly a year after the Soviet Union launched sputnik it actually wasn't even referred for two as NASA at first. Everyone called it that NASA Dwight Eisenhower was still president at the time he ordered NASA asset to absorb a bunch of different space related efforts from around the government and military branches NASA absorbed the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics six it absorbed Aeronautical Research Labs Lake Langley and aims the Jet Propulsion Laboratory that was being run out in California for the army it also absorbed a human spaceflight program that the Air Force was planning they came up with the idea after the Soviets launched like the dog and when the space lay program turned over to NASA they named it project Mercury there were already atlas and Jupiter rockets named from from classic mythology so they stuck with that name concept in myth mercury was a fast winged messenger and the grandsons of the Deities Atlas in Jupiter her they also decided to call the men and it was all men that would be trained to fight a space astronauts. The word had appeared appeared in an obscure Sci fi story from nineteen thirty called the death's head meteor but of course the word astronaut also had classical roots meaning. Someone who flies among the stars to to be cleared these men were not training in in any way to go to the moon. It was a group of seven men whose mission was just to test humans ability to orbit around the earth NASA decided to call these astronauts the mercury seven the agency had only been in existence existence for a few months but in April of Nineteen fifty-nine when they unveiled the mercury seven astronauts this is former chief NASA historian Roger Lonnie CBS and when they were unveiled it was a circus like atmosphere these man nations project Mercury astronauts which which of these men will be first to orbit the earth. I cannot tell you won't know himself day of the flight. It's amazing and to watch the old footage of this news conference first of all tons of people there are smoking through the whole thing including half the astronauts but what's really wild old is just how thrown together and informal the event feels thank you all. I really am here. You can tell them. NASA is so this us the ballroom from the dolley Madison House. Where did this press conference and they never seen so many people? The journalists were in from every media that you could think of television cameras movie real footage. Everything was there and it was uh circus like. I don't think there's any other way to characterize it. Competitive real honor gentleman you're right Malcolm S SCARPA NTER They Roy Roy g cooper John H Glenn Virgil I grissom while her sherlock big shuttered the seven men all white all under five foot eleven all between between thirty and forty years old ladies and gentlemen are the nation's Mercury astronauts of the mercury seven were so similar looking that they took to occasionally lining up in alphabetical order when pictures were taken of the whole group so that the newspapers would get the captions correct because people looking at the picture couldn't necessarily figure out easily who was who this is Margaret Way to camp of the Air Erin Space Museum and these seven men up on stage under the bright lights of the news cameras. They looked the part buzz cut hair military physiques. Here's mercury seven astronaut Wally Sheera answering a question during the event about what got him interested in go into tate's can answer that simply all of us in this room probably read comic strips such as Buck Rogers Flash Gordon Jules Verne routines and if we interested in reading things like this obviously we had intentions following something like this in our lifetimes listening to the rest of the the news conference the responses of all seven of these men seem to play right into the tropes of those science fiction tales of the nineteen thirties and forties to the the hero heading into a new place jokingly of course said that I got on this project because it probably be the nearest to have ever get I had no one to make the most of it a love interest with a lot of Moxie as a matter of fact when I was notified that I was to be considered I was at sea at this time and so my wife called Washington and volunteered for me a kind of older figured scientists of some sort who's advising the young usually blonde muscular male hero I on an perfect killed which one of you John John Lewis. That's easy. They're all above love normal. Yes right now for the announcement. At NASA headquarters they were wearing jackets and ties but for their spacesuits well it seemed obvious what things look like. You've got a whole generation that really grows up in the nineteen fifties with these dreams of spaceflight that are very much connected to silver lemay suits and kind of militaristic style uniforms with giant lightning bolts on them. These were basically the costumes on the popular sci-fi. TV Shows Space Patrol and sure enough soon the astronauts would be photographed in their shiny silver space suits silver helmets silver boots and the blue logo of NASA with a red swoosh across their chest. They were ready to take America on an adventure to space they really were very useful. Sort sort of public relations people as well as being highly technically capable pilots and they just captured the imagination of the of the American public in ways that nobody had ever been able to do previously fiction blurred into reality reality blurred into fiction and before nuclear nightmares had come true so maybe now another Sifi prediction was about to be realized the dream of flying through the stars that said keep been mind. This was still the tail end of the Eisenhower Administration. JFK had an even announced his presidential run yet so for now the chances says seemed pretty slim that product mercury would turn into anything more fantastical than simply aflaid around the Earth Nasa of course makes everything thing about the positive side and NASA has been very effective is sort of selling that argument the military which has the piece of it that is really about terror error and destruction they don't talk about that too much. I would contend that that duality has always been president still was I in terms of space we we think of it as this positive opportunity for us to get off this planet and go somewhere else to explore explore it. That's sort of a hopeful future approach but there's just as much about this. That's about it sort of a negative side to as project mercury began. Dan and NASA came into its own. It's not like the military efforts stopped if anything the military branches now had more bandwidth for our programs that focused on the defense aspects of Space Werner von Braun was still part of the army he watched as is NASA chose astronauts and photographers clicked their cameras and the public laughed and swooned at an idea of spaceflight that foam brown own had been pushing all along around the time the mercury seven were announced von Braun's group the Army Ballistic Missile Agency. They had an idea they came up with a military reason for extending space travel beyond project mercury it was called hold project horizon and the plan was that they would create a military base on the moon and the chief authors of it where staffers who worked for Brown their proposal was more than a hundred pages long and it's full of diagrams ends and cosmic drawings and amazing technical details of why and how we would set up this main base under this army plan they would start delivering cargo to the moon by nineteen sixty five and then there would be a task force of twelve soldier astronauts living on the moon army base by nineteen sixty six and according to the report the benefits of the space would be almost uncountable first and foremost it would give the United States the ultimate highground. We'd have a prime spot for surveillance of the Earth we could build moon based East weapons that could destroy enemy targets. The proposal argues that this might even be the best way to avoid war and to ensure peace on the planet because because WHO's going to attack the United States if we have a base on the moon we can retaliate from embedded in the proposal was the idea that the moon and all this peace between the earth and the moon should be considered a military theater which ran not only only should we build a base they said but we also needed to create a US space command basically a new military branch for space von Braun's group wrapped up this report by June of Nineteen fifty-nine the proposals proposals big point was that we learned our lesson from Sputnik about what happens when we're second. We have to raise to catch up. Let's not repeat that being second to a satellite launch that's not great but it's not catastrophic the being second to planting a flag on the moon and claiming it with it's a military base. You can't be second. You're either I or it's came over they. They put this whole big proposal in front of Eisenhower and Eisenhower rejected it as in Harris Philosophy was I don't see any reason to pursue a moon program or any of that kind of stuff we have no enemies on the moon he rejected and he got these guys and their space proposals calls out from the army and over to NASA it was almost like Eisenhower's on NASA as the place to put all the dreamers and schemers who are are interested in space travel so they would stop money being serious defense objectives of his military von Braun's rocket team stayed in Huntsville Alabama the same place that had been for the army but they became part of a powerful new NASA operation located there called the Marshall Space Space Flight Center and on Brown was named its director just like that von Braun finally became the head of the US rocket program for space. The Moon in writing podcast is sponsored by Lighthouse Deep Space is calling and lighthouses helping the Space Industry's innovators answer the call for Modernizing Nastase Enterprise. It he to processing over thirty five thousand pounds of mission critical supplies each year to keep the international space station fully operational lighthouse delivers the it engineering and science to advance today's most important space capabilities learn how at lighthouse dot com slash space from the White House in the office of the president of the United States. We present an address by Dwight D Eisenhower. This is the farewell address for President Eisenhower who's eight years as chief chief executive come to an end at bloom writing. Mr Eisenhower has chosen this time for his finest speech ladies and gentlemen the President of the United States good evening. My fellow Americans Eisenhower left office in January of Nineteen Sixty one and the council of government we we must guard against the acquisition of unwanted influence whether sought orange zone by the military industrial complex his farewell farewell speech was full of warnings. The potential for the disastrous rise up misplaced power exists and will persist mornings about communism. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic process. We should take nothing for mm-hmm mornings not to use national security as a justification for over militarization only alert and knowledgeable citizenry can't compare the proper meshing the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security security and liberty may prosper to get Eisenhower also gave a warning. That's less remembered today but it's right there at the heart of his speech in holding scientific research and discovery in respect as we should we must also be alert to the equal equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become captive of a scientific technological elite in other words. He said be careful that these pushes space scientists don't steer government priorities. He gave this speech at eight thirty PM January Seventeenth Nineteen Sixty one from the Oval Office his image pulsed across American television screens in black and white and at the end of it he took off his glasses he folded in his hands. He leaned back in his chair and he just said it began a new era on the Radio Etta James and Chubby Checker in books Robert Heinlein had published what would become his most famous starship troopers about a future war between humans and aliens and the rise is of space soldiers on television programming was slowly making the switch from black and white to color and in the Oval Office Office John F. Kennedy was president forty three years old. The youngest man ever elected to the office Kennedy had talked during his campaign about closing the missile gap and beating the Soviets but when he got into office he saw this seem intelligence reports that Eisenhower had at which point jfk then realized what Eisenhower had been trying trying to convey all along at the United States already did outpace the Soviet Union when it came to ballistic missiles those satellites were just effective Soviet propaganda stunts you know when when Kennedy came into office in January of nineteen sixty when he had no special interest in space Roger Lonnie us again he had used the idea of a missile gap that the Soviets had capabilities the greater than ours in terms of ballistic missiles as a as a hammer in the in the political campaign but beyond that he didn't really really know or care very much and and and by the way we know he didn't really care that much because NASA comes into his office right after he takes office and wants it's more money to work on a larger rocket and they couldn't get anywhere inside the administration on this. They were having the difficulty getting to see the president even on it but finally Jim Webb who was the NASA administrator found a way into the Oval Office Kennedy Says Okay you can have about half the money you you want but not all of it and and so if he was such a Gung Ho space enthusiast he would have gone on for this with no trouble at all he didn't and he sort of went away from that not paying too much attention to a after the fact until guarantee launch on the twelfth of April now that change angel things century outside of his first Yuri Gagarin's launch questions that have arisen the West asked about the validity of his life have no place here today as the House while Lola. I never would have a boy pool. I would is Sam unusual them on April twelfth nineteen sixty one so just a couple months into his presidency Kennedy had his own version of a sputnik moment the US was in the process of training the mercury seven to fly into space when news came that a Soviet rocket had lifted off from Earth carrying the cosmonaut Yuri Garden the Soviets had retrofitted a spy satellite into a module that good garin construction self into and orbit the planet newspapers around the world the next day carried images of Garin headlines marked this historic moment great success in space. When the Russians pushed a man across the Rancho he was Eureka Garden the astronaut the Russians lionised as the first to orbit the earth it was the propaganda the crew of the year and there were boastful quotes from Nikita Khruschev like let the capitalist countries try to catch up the Soviet Union had now beaten the United States to every spe- stunts so far I satellite in space first animal and space now first human in Space Khrushchev the Soviet premier was very adept at using those space spectaculars killers as sort of ways to beat up the Americans? Look at how good we are and we can do this stuff and apparently you can't then he gained a lot of world prestige. Dj's a result of this so it's sort of soft power I jeff was able to use it. I mean he immediately sent Uruguay Garin world tour and good Garin they could not have found a better more personable more charisma matic individual is sort of the John Glenn type as tens of thousands horrid events where they got a glimpse of their hero and and had that attraction that people liked and so he becomes really affected. Pr Guy for the Union year behind Garin success of course was Soviet chief rocket engineer Sergei Korolyov he had pulled off yet another remarkable feat even more remarkable actually given that he had suffered a heart attack just a few months before quo yeah of was still experiencing having health problems from his time in the Gulag plus he was feeling the stress of some new friction between him and Khruschev on top top of the stress of his demanding work but for now he had another win to celebrate less than a week later the newspaper headlines turned even grimmer for the Kennedy Administration in the Bay of Pigs invasion went horribly wrong. It was supposed to be a covert. CIA operation to overthrow Fidel Castro's astros communist government in Cuba. It ended up being a very overt cold war failure for the United States. We intend the profit from this lesson. Community has to stand up and take the blame for it publicly. We intend to intensify our efforts for a struggle in in many ways more difficult than war disappointment will often accompany us and that Soviet success with Garin and that American failure at the Bay of pigs creates an environment where Kennedy says in essence. I have to change the subject. How can I get out of this mess mm-hmm and at that point he signals to his vice president Lyndon Johnson? What can we do in space that we can beat the Russians served? Let's first or foremost thing Eisenhower had rolled his eyes that what he saw as the false hysteria over Soviet space spectaculars there's and dramatic headlines Not Kennedy Kennedy didn't personally know a lot or care a lot about space but he understood understood that images mattered that they were possibly even more powerful than the reality behind them and that lead suspect to the moon in most telling of the space race. This is where the story begins Kennedy's decision to go to the moon is the opening line but there is a narrative track classic mythology calm in media race. That's Latin for in the middle of things it's when you start a story right in the midst of the action. The ILIAD starts in the middle of the Trojan war. The Odyssey's starts with Odysseus held captive partway through his voyage and now perhaps we realized that our American myth the the Apollo story starts in medias race to Kennedy's Moonshot decision looks like the beginning but it's actually Salihi the very middle of the moon tail so much has led to this moment so much that often gets obscured and not talked about going to the moon was not a foregone conclusion. It wasn't obvious it wasn't inevitable up until this point in the story. No one in power not even Kennedy was thinking of moon travel as a real option at all so why when Kennedy is battered heard by the Bay of Pigs and by jury guarantee flight is the idea of going to the moon the thing that gets into his head. Why did Kennedy decide that should be the goal well? He didn't at first on April twenty first nineteen sixty one so a week after guarantees flayed and in the midst of the fallout from the Bay of Pigs Fiasco Kennedy gave a news conference he had to answer reporters questions about the space race and Kennedy actually came off as surprisingly pessimistic the president's don't you agree. We should try to get to the moment before there. I suppose if we can if we can get to the moon before the Russians that we should doesn't it your responsibility to apply the the vigorous leadership to spark up this program. When you say the program I have to make a judgment based on the best information when we can get whether we can be ahead of the Russians to we're now talking about a program which may be which many years away and I just say to you regardless of how much much money we spend on the sat and the sat going to put us we still going to be second? Question is whether the nuclear rocket or other kinds of chemical rockets offer us a better hope nope of making a jump forward but we are second in the and this added will not put us first so in other other words. JFK wasn't sure there was any point investing further in a space program at all and yet something was happening behind the scenes scenes that would change his mind in private. He sent a letter to Vice President Lyndon Johnson. He said pulled together immediately a recommendation of what we could do in space that would actually give us a win on the world stage now. I really wanted to see this letter letter. JFK sent to Johnson firsthand so I went up to Boston to the Kennedy Library and archives so this is actually the letter that John Kennedy sent so you can see his signature here. I met there with Jamie. Roth Madonna di director so this is what he sent to the vice president. Do we have a chance of beating the Soviets associates by putting a laboratory space whereby a trip around the moon or by rockets to land on the moon or by a rocket to go to the moon and back with a man is is there any other space program which promises dramatic results in which we could win and that right there is I think a very he idea for the president a dramatic result which we could win and then Johnson had weep to find that information out and report back to the President Johnson with his big Texas drawl when over to Jim Webb Edmund new head of NASA which meant walking like a block from the White House Johnson goes out begins to talk to the people at NASA and says okay. What can what can we do here? Guys told me everything about where our space program stands. Tell me where we're behind Tony. If you have any great ideas for something we could do where we could actually beat the Soviet the Union we need some great space publicity right now so webb who's really new to all this stuff turns turns to his number two and NASA Hugh Dryden who'd been working on aeronautics for the government for a decade guys youngest. PhD's Johns Hopkins ever NASA's Chief Historian Bill Barry PhD Like Nineteen and Yours PhD dissertation on Supersonic Flight Hugh Dryden is this smart space guy with round glasses and pursed lips knows the INS and outs of everything the government could possibly due in space interesting guy. brilliant character does all this great stuff but he apparently annoyed a number of people borne Congress and he had some enemies on the hill which is why Johnson and Kennedy didn't consider him for the very top spot at NASA anyway so web turns to Dryden and says what could we suggest the president to Dryden says what could we suggest you'd never ask ask turns out. The scientists at NASA knew exactly what they wanted to convince Kennedy to do. They had just been waiting for an opening. They wanted to go to the moon. NASA had already been working up its dream plan with the help of internal leaders like Dryden and von Braun step one was to put up space capsule with personal board just to see if you can survive in space and that was essentially project mercury their second step was to build a winged reusable Zabol vehicle that would make it relatively easy to go back and forth to Earth the third step was to build a space station in Earth orbit that that winged cleaned reusable vehicle a space shuttle if you will would go up to rendezvous and dock with and the next step beyond that was is to dispatch from that space station a mission to the moon and ultimately to Mars in an oral history that tried in later gave to to the Kennedy Library he talked about how these plans had been floating around NASA even before Johnson came to speak with him in fact they he had tried selling Eisenhower on the idea a couple years earlier without any luck these studies channel internal acid. I thought that perhaps a new principal reverse president Eisenhower's project mercury and when you're trying to get at some position make proposals basis for optimism that that would be reversed at his bio. Was it coming through sales pitch so but fast forward to April and suddenly it looked like the moon shot might have a chance after all Johnson was is there specifically asking them for big ideas the workers that NASA had convinced Dryden who convinced Webb who then delivered the following recommendation condition to Johnson about moon landing and we can do that but we have to set the deadline so far into the future that the Soviets is can't sign can't use big rocket and beat us because they had a bigger rocket so we have to do something else and so that's where they hit up on a human landing on on the moon by the end of the decade that we give them enough time to be successful as long as they put the effort into it Johnson wrote in his recommendation and week later to Kennedy. You really need to consider a moon mission. Mr President Kennedy Library has the actual letter that Johnson wrote pushing this moon idea so here's a memo for the president was written by Vice President Johnson only rape great before we yes. It was high-priority markings that we're seeing about fifth so this is this could be the president's copy. He did like to doodle so it wouldn't be surprising if he he made these types of little squiggly lines but the other the other markings of you can see that this was really confidential and of course it was a declassified document this this was classified at the highest levels because it dealt with space and Kennedy had asked are we leader. Are we moving fast. Are we doing everything takes takes that we can to be leaders in the space program and Johnson's response was no. We're not doing everything we could. At this point he also. I goes on to say that it's GONNA cost five hundred million dollars to jump start the program that we are behind in the technology we are working on different ideas about the fuel whether we're going to do nuclear or liquid could feel those things but he's really saying to. The president were far behind where we ought to be but then he addresses Kennedy's question. What can we do about it? In Johnson's response he specifically mentions that a manned moon landing tonight be just the thing to get ahead Johnson points out that it would have quote great propaganda value and also that it is quote food is essential as an objective Johnson was sold but Kennedy got this note from his vice president and he wasn't as shore as you'll recall Kennedy and Johnson had different backgrounds and different political instincts so they decided to have a meeting in the Oval Office to discuss it. Jim was present as an acid administrator. I I think there is at least one person from the DOD and and they talked about what are the options and and Johnson laid out the Apollo. What became the Paul Program helped by the NASA folks who were there Lyndon Johnson by personality was very determined person Dan who was a political force in the White House Margaret Way to camp and so when he had something in his head that he really really wanted it was hard to dissuade him of that what if Johnson and web were leading the president astray this was a really big gamble Kennedy listened and he weighed the costs and benefits it was an ambitious goal but it was something something that NASA and his science advisers were telling him was achievable and that could be done with the technology that they had so he's thinking thinking about the international stage? She's thinking about national prestige and he's thinking about that worldwide reaction. What could we do get the world's attention person Kennedy give a hoot about space exploration? What do you care about was beating the Russians Nassim Spill Berry and this was kind of his desperation hail? Mary pass the the Soviet propaganda on that issue by moving the goalposts. Everyone's there in the room telling Kennedy. Look look what this does for us it helps us save face if the Soviets beat us to any more incremental space achievements it puts the US goal post host at the end of the decade which means we can brush off any stunts the Soviets do between now and then of course something. We're you just go see if the Russians do something we just go so what we'll see you on the moon Yuri Gagarin's flight the Bay of Pigs Disaster Kennedy was this one two three only three months into his presidency and already he was facing down a massive image problem he he needed an escape hatch diversion something to change the fate. He saw barreling his way see are you on the moon. What a crazy idea was it inspired inspiring in ninety see also strategic it was forged of pressure and anxiety and necessity in war and saving face and competition all the ugly things that make us human it was born of all things good and bad a month later? Kennedy arrived at Capitol Hill in in his presidential motorcade walked into the House of Representatives the largest room all of Congress he walked down the center center aisle to a full hall of Clapping Senators and representatives he climbed the steps. The lectern Keach Linden Johnson's John He shook the hand of John McCormack Speaker of the house then he turned and faced the huge crowd a giant American flag draped from the press gallery behind him he set down his papers. He leaned toward the microphone preferment and he started his speech hang on the next episode of Moon Rise. Kennedy's doubts grow Oh he thinks what have I done and he tries to undo it. Moon rise is a Washington Post audio podcast. It's the result of the work of producer Bishop Sand Project Coordinator Alyson michaels those are designer Courtney Khan and director of audio. Just stall extra. Thanks for the editing help of Carol Alderman. Our podcast president was hosted by the Adler Planetarium in Chicago. The experts who appeared on this episode we're Bill Barry Chief Historian of NASA Asa Roger Alana's a former chief historian of NASA. Jamie Roth the deputy director at the John F Kennedy Presidential Library. Sorry Kate Scott in associate historian in the Senate historical office and Margaret White Camp a curator at the national air and Space Museum Ziam archival recordings came from the John F Kennedy Presidential Library the Dwight D Eisenhower where presidential library NASA the Russian History Audio Archives of the Wilson Centers Kenan Institute critical past and the United States Information Agency enjoying the podcast recommended to a friend. We'd love your help spreading the word about it. I'm Lillian Cunningham. Dan The creator and host of moon rise. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with chapter nine. Be One important thing for me who had bothered

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January 4, 2019

POLITICO Playbook Audio Briefing

04:04 min | 2 years ago

January 4, 2019

"The Good Friday morning. I'm Anna Palmer and welcome to your politico. Playbook audio briefing, stay tuned after the show for a message from the American Petroleum Institute. And I'm Jay Sherman. Speaker Nancy Pelosi spoke, Capitol Hill press corps around seven pm in. Here's what she said about a wall. It's immoral. We're not doing a wall. Does anybody have any doubt about that? We are not doing a wall. She also said the walls Awasthi money. A new White House position is emerging DACA. For wall deal on the table last night. They were too interesting segments on Fox News, which seemed to give great insight into the latest White House thinking on the immigration negotiations. I Sean Hannity said the president was willing to put DACA on the table in the wall talks president Donald Trump's at the opposite two days ago in his cabinet meeting. But we got word from Republicans last night that the president is actually serious about talking about some sort of Dhaka for wall deal. Democrats have rejected this, but this adds a new wrinkle, the shutdown talks talker Carlson interviewed Mike Pence and asked if the deal will. Clued any amnesty for people here illegally? Pence responded that border security was the focus. But then also said there are a lot of different ideas and the president expressed a willingness to deal with dreamers into compassionate way. And it was on the table. John Bresnahan emerges ever got a quick hallway interview with Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell Makoto. The Democrats are privately urging him to find a way out of the shutdown McConnell said it'll be up to the president and Senate Democrats. The Wall Street Journal has the market watch reported global stocks regained ground as China confirmed trade talks and today's big meeting he'll leaders go to the White House at eleven thirty. Am this morning as promised the house passed a package, we opened the shutter parts of government until September. As also voted to fund the HFS through February eighth to allow for negotiations on border security, seven House Republicans joint all of the House Democrats in supporting the approach package, including where presentative will hurt of Texas at least two phonic of New York. Fed Upton of Michigan. Brian fitz. Patrick, pennsylvania. Peter King of New York. Greg Walden of Oregon and John Kako of New York. The New York Times reports McConnell is also facing pressure from Republicans to stop avoiding the shutdown fight big Mulvaney. The president's interim chief of staff is egging Trump into the shutdown fight. Nancy cook reports in Nancy Pelosi is invited Trump to give the state of the union January twenty ninth Sarah fares and Marian Levin breakdown. How the shutdown put a damper on the start of congress and the post story on how lawmakers are hailing a new sisterhood with more than one hundred women sworn into the house House Republicans are hitting the airwaves congressional leadership fund launched a six-figure online ad campaign hitting democratic representatives. You'll Cicero of California shrubs, David's of Kansas Hayley. Stevens of Michigan dean Phillips, Minnesota. And Andy Kim of New Jersey for voting for Pelosi. After indicating they wanted new leadership on the campaign trail and the house freedom fund, the freedom caucus political arm has. Launched a one million dollar ad campaign pressing the need for a border wall. And on the twenty twenty Jason Schwartz and David ciders note that Rachel Maddow on MSNBC is the new king for democratic presidential candidates couple noteworthy Trump administration stories Andrew reports at the makeup of Trump's cabinet relying on former lobbyists is creating more hurdles for Trump. The times is reporting. The White House's considering former Senator Jim Webb as Trump's next Defense Secretary the post story on how the Justice department is investigating whether outgoing interior secretary. Ryan Zinke lied to the inspector general. Here's what's on tap. For Trump's Friday. The president will meet with secretary of state Mike Pompeo at three PM in the Oval Office. Subscribe the playbook politico dot com slash playbook. A message from the American Petroleum Institute. Welcome to America's generation energy led by the women and men of the natural gas and oil industry who are meeting unprecedented. Consumer demand for affordable and reliable energy while reducing the US carbon footprint to its lowest level in a generation. See how we're doing it. And join us at power past impossible, Datta work.

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Magnificent Desolation

Moonrise

50:34 min | 2 years ago

Magnificent Desolation

"They need for their most critical missions learn more light owes dot com slash space the moon rise podcast is sponsored by Lighthouse from the Moon to Mars Lighthouse is proud to support NASA and the space industry with the right tools technology science and innovation is D- that this is what the future looks like so surprised that there could be a group of fellow beings all working together aren't wait they don't even have nationalities this accidental visitor comes off as so foolish for being surprised evening television sets would carry reports of how the capsule went up in flames but tonight on the eve of that tragedy that was the question at the heart of it will tomorrow be the same as yesterday can we ever hope to escape the human failing out of control to stop here wherever we are the earthlings think they're so advanced but for the perspective of the enterprise crew they're nineteen sixties technology and also their social views seemed embarrassingly backwards in air force captain from the sixties is mistakenly beamed aboard the enterprise the enterprise at eight thirty PM eastern a new episode of Star Trek was about to premiere on NBC it was the show's first soon tiny blue planet out the window of the starship enterprise it's a view of earth that no humans had yet ever things of planet earth in the dark of this January Thursday night and and he can't believe the diversity of the space ship's crew there are women there are people millie travels back in time to earth in the late nineteen sixties just days before Americans are about to go to the moon plunging through space I season and episode that aired that night was wild almost eerie the party religion race is a house that cannot stand in nineteen sixty seven the opening words of that New Star Trek episode echoed across living rooms maintained increase in security council red alert maintain increased security in one of the last scenes he gets to see his own and this is nice coup divided against it by the factory the thirteen point two in it the starship enterprise a spacecraft exploring the galaxy in the future it accident the very first pictures of this brilliant blue globe our Blue Globe floating there in the our Washington Post -perienced myspace the episode was called tomorrow is yesterday and I suppose absolute blackness of the universe that photograph changed our understanding of ourselves the Blake from a distance many of you did experience that it was only a little more than fifty years ago when we captured eh imagine living on this planet before we had any image of what earth on this earth how life was sublime and fragile wonderful and flawed finally stopped looked at ourselves from a distance and asked what are we doing who have we become fastness of it actually made us look inward we could suddenly seem more clearly what it meant to be alive the Apollo one fire that killed three astronauts in January nineteen sixty seven everyone in one way or another was confronting that question going through that reckoning even before that photograph was taken in the late nineteen sixteen we were already going through a reckoning and self examination stated NASA and through the future of the Moon Program into question it through the future itself into question humanity had been through wars and nuclear standoffs that threatened to destroy the entire planet but it says if we cluding NASA very people leading us off this earth upcoming spaceflights were indefinitely suspended and progress all but ground to a halt NASA administrator Jim Webb offered to resign over it but President Lyndon Johnson said he wouldn't accept webs resignation he wanted web to stay on he needed Hugh Board that spent two months investigating the Apollo one tragedy and drawing up a report that was followed by congressional testimonies the accident in January nineteen sixty eight and a concluded there had been preventable safety hazards Jim Webb was still then to get the Apollo program back up and running in web actually convinces Johnson this is a really interesting the only people that are really capable of investigating what happened in public and from the US Congress the country was asking itself and asking President Johnson why are we doing this anyway but but here was the man I I just don't think that happens today. The Senate published tone report then nearly a year after unleash showed that the Apollo program had less than a fifty percent approval rating among Americans fifty percent many citizens could identify verdy the national debt and of course the Vietnam War many men doc ID that is full of some of the most tumultuous times that had been seen in the you're trying to protect NASA the American people have a right to know exactly the unvarnished truth and you tell them that impressed me I was going to do it in and the war will go on the story of Apollo happens in the midst of a day if you really want us to get to the moon what NASA investigate its own accident we promise you we'll find out what happened because we want to know too and Johnson trusted I was going over to testify before Congress on the results of the investigation this is from an oral history of astronaut Frank Borman who was part of the I a host of other things that they thought deserve to be higher priorities than flying to the Moon Civil Rights Gender Equality Addressing twentieth century since the Second World War this is Margaret Way to camp a historian with the national air and Space Museum so Johnson's personal let confidence or I guess you'd call it emotional support for the moon program was lackluster to opinion polls consistent Webb eventually a Johnson and under relationship during this time support for the Apollo Program had started to decline both from the commitment to spaceflight then starts to up against some very for him unpleasant political galaxies of how poorly the Vietnam War is going how much he's having to deal with international relations in Cold War context not only around NASA had to face this record political changes that are happening that are spreading across the United States like wildfire in the nineteen sixties three billion a year for a while but in nineteen sixty seven it started to go down and kept dropping engender blackened shell of their capsule may still hold a clue to the cause of the swiftly spreading flames Massa organized get NAM but around the world and then the real pressure on him that is created by hundreds and then thousands there was certainly pressure on on the White House about Apollo Brisk Carson logical project that is not necessarily in relationship or dialogue with so many of these social cultural the NASA investigators continue their probe of a tragic flash fire that killed Apollo astronauts grissom white adding NASA through all of this was the guy who took all the swings and arrows from Congress from the press from the public about the fire and that took its toll on yeah so there's ways in which the space community is focused and dedicated to technical being too technologically of course the moon mission represented progress and the future but culturally NASA on both sides of the struggle we'll be long armies on both sides we'll take you casual the pilot programs but a unintended consequence of that decision process was that it excluded African Americans and I there was the budgetary support thanks to Johnson's efforts funding for the Apollo program had ticked up to nearly so from the earliest days of the space program NASA really out of its way to portray it's astronaut says obviously mail but also aw an so Johnson is trying to navigate all of those things at the same time discrimination based on things like race and gender and he followed that up with an executive order requiring equal employment opportunities in the federal government men there's a whole long history to how NASA astronauts were initially selected they were poems from the military's jet test it is a rather exclusive group that ends up with a homogeneous group of astronauts of young people who are beginning to protest US policy's central park is starting to the UN bill he asked him NASA because we're the only ones you really understand this is NASA as chief historian Bill Barry this is this guy wouldn't wouldn't happen today but went in there and said one fire review board narrowed with Mr Webb Jim Webb who was a ministry of NASA and I never will forget he said I don't want you to do anything to try to protect me tation Americans excluded women baby is because if the history of how that test bed was put together symbol throughout the early years of the space program it signs a contract with life magazine that has exclusive rights to report on the astronauts in there families NASA had editing permission for those stories and if you look at those stories and almost every one of them they're portrayed is family was stuck in the past throughout the sixty's it was increasingly forced to confront the fact that its astronaut corps was all white is losing interest and concern about expense cutting the budget is time odd it was getting more difficult to execute meanwhile louise during the Apollo era were black and less than five percent were women as NASA when irony even his own passed in Germany employment opportunity in the federal government is the corner moon landing seemed imminent what was science fiction's purpose what's the story should tell what new visions should put into the American still despite some efforts to recruit a more diverse workforce only about three percent of NASA some of the social and economic progress that Johnson had hoped to bring about during his presidency he signed the Civil Rights Act in nineteen sixty four that band article new visions of what it could look like to go into space and those are star Trek on television from nineteen sixty six to nineteen sixty nine and then humanity and what humanity could be our evolution as a species the movie painted a portrait of humans developing technology that only Kubrick's two thousand one a space odyssey which comes out in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight and so- Kubrick and hard working they go to church on Sundays it's a very normative narrative and yet NASA was supposed to be in part at least a tool star trek and what he's doing with that the way that that really looks futuristic is by having an integrated cast that includes there's actually an old training video that Werner von Braun made for the Marshall Space Flight Center where he talks about the importance of embracing diversity at night really worked with Sir Arthur C Clarke to develop this story which he intended to be an epic form of through its own self examination in the sixties so did the science fiction genre now that's space travel was real and storytelling that would really use science fiction as a way to tell an deeply allegorical story about getting them in a space context allow us to look at them with fresh eyes benchley worked against them and he's creating that vision at the same time that NASA is actually worked stories are federal merit system it can be traced back almost eighty years to the Civil Service Act itself if we ought to extend Benz boundary to the time having someone like Leonard Nimoy playing alien who is not the other not the enemy but a part of the cast is a kind of radical reconstruction the reach of the universe it is imperative that we also resolve men's relationship with men on this Earth American woman who is the spokesperson for the crew and sitting equally with the crew as a part of the cast hopes and fears and because of that pointed us toward a different sort of future these weren't just stories of eighteen sixty s and tries to create a science fiction program that would then grapple with these contemporary social issues but by nine by the end of the decade there are two major contributions that really put forward as travel you could find those in the newspaper science fiction now had to reflect something back to us about our current human condition so what we find in the sixties is a wave of science fiction storytelling that embodied a new Erez flying through space or aliens landing on earth or even a nuclear fallout these were stories about alternative political of course white this is Neil Maher author of Apollo in the age of Aquarius and really relies on that cultural are you alright permanent damage was done having a Russian joined the cast in the second season is really pathbreaking at the teens science fiction had to reexamine its purpose it wasn't enough for it to paint exciting technical images of futures of the way that science fiction can be used to tell a new set of stories so Roddenbury really picks up from some of the social change happening in the or what the relationships but we'll quite between humans and machines in the sixties you get Toyota you predominantly plume background and covers White Cloud Keeton on what is going to be the actual Apollo Program and the Moon landings and on television then gene roddenberry nineteen sixty six creates. Dan who time travels between different chapters of his life returning often to the pain and the horror of war. Looks like Frank Herbert's Dune Philip K Dick's the man in the high castle enter Salah Kayla gwynn's the left hand of darkness she was the that's the interesting thing as the promise and tragedy of the Apollo program played out on the actual news around the country in the late nineteen six there were more than five hundred thousand. US troops there as Johnson wrestled with both the Vietnam War and the one is androgynous or gender fluid then also at the end of the decade there was Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse Five it's a book about him an Asian American man at the helm driving the ship's speed is increasing spy an African so it could exclusively focus on peaceful scientific pursuits but under Johnson NASA started to help out the defense polities about the mental toll of perpetual war about whether social constructs would carry over to life on different planets future of the stalled Apollo program the two became intertwined NASA was originally spun off from the military have for for space exploration might be useful for us in the Vietnam War and the head of NASA immediately agrees to help then in the late nineteen sixties US involvement in the fighting in Vietnam all the way back to Harry Truman's presidency several different technologies an ambush detector a mortar counter in a small beacon for locating down fighter pilots into the program and had reassigned about one hundred of its engineers to try to figure out how to retool space technology for use in Vietnam and they developed the UH by the eve of President Kennedy's assassination in sixty three there were about sixteen thousand US military personnel over there the Johnson Space Center to oversee the Apollo mission that computer within a matter of minutes took the data and converted into record hits and that data was sent to an enormous. IBM Computer was located in Thailand. It was the same. IBM Computer was used the first woman to win the prestigious Nebula and Hugo sci-fi awards and that book she wrote was about the social and political dynamics on a planet where every but of course the most important one was electronic battlefield also known as project IGLOO White Igloo White was a covert electronic warfare project approved the creation of the NASA Limited Warfare Committee for nineteen sixty-seven NASA had dedicated for a million dollars uh but Johnson was the first president to send American ground troops to Vietnam and by nineteen sixty eight the meaning a captured data on the battlefield to help the US military automate its attacks and what does it did was it took many of its engineers they took the seismometers that were used to measure if there was

NASA US Johnson NASA Johnson Space Center Vietnam NASA Limited Warfare Committee Johnson Senate dot IBM Apollo Frank Herbert Dan Kurt Vonnegut President Kennedy Salah Kayla gwynn president Thailand
Americas Monuments | 58,000 Names | 6

American History Tellers

43:12 min | 6 months ago

Americas Monuments | 58,000 Names | 6

"To listen to american history tellers one week early and add free join wondering plus in the wondrous app download the wondering and your apple or google play mobile app store today. June nineteen seventy your private first class. The cameron military base on the coast of south vietnam a year ago. You came to the hospital here to recover from a shrapnel wound but today you're healthy and the moment you've been waiting for has finally arrived you've been discharged. You're sitting on a bench outside your barracks waiting for your ride to the airport next to you is one of your squad. Leaders corporal murphy. The two of you fought in the same unit. After you got out of the hospital he turns to you and smiles. Well what's the first thing you're going to do when you get back. Aw man i'm gonna lay down on a couch and my mom's house and stay there for a long long time. Sure she'll be happy to see you not as happy as to see. Her murphy always sends his men off with a farewell in this case. Farewell is a flask of rye whiskey. The two of you take turns sipping from it as transport gps pass by wind. You think you'll go back well when there's nothing left to do here i don't know maybe not even then corful murphy's been back home but he didn't let much grass grow under his feet he signed up for a second tour and was back in a flash. You shake your head and pass him the flask. So you're telling me you're never going back come on you. Better prepare yourself different back hall now. People don't understand what we seen what we've had to do. Americans don't understand this war they don't like it. You don't like it much either. That's why you can't understand wanting to stay. You've seen too many things here like that time. When an ammunition truck exploded right in front of you killing twelve of your friends. Corporal murphy has his share of horror stories to every soldier. Does you take another swig of whiskey. Well i'm glad i'm leaving and if you think i'm coming back here again boy. Got another thing coming achieve approaches skating. Well i think that's my ride murphy. Standoff you both look at each other tips last the flash towards you hear you finish off no way. You're the one that's going to need it. He just shakes his head. You might think that but you haven't back home in you shake murphy's hand then turn and climb into the back of the jeep as it trundles off. You look back to see your friends getting smaller in the distance. Soon you'll be in. The air headed back across the pacific towards family and friends towards home. He trying to picture everything you returning to. All you can see is the carnage leaving behind still. You wonder if murphy murphy's right maybe home won't be the way you remember it as much as you want to. Put the hell this war behind you. Maybe it will be impossible to forget with no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts banking with capital. One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcasts and with our top rated app you can deposit checks and transfer money anytime anywhere making capital one and even easier decision. That's banking reimagined. What's in your wallet. Terms apply capital one in a member. Fdic conference tournaments heard tipping off. Bubble teams are making their final push. Top seeds or preparing for what they hope is a long run draftking sportsbook. America's top rated sportsbook gap is putting new customers in the center of the action. That four dollars on an underdog when two hundred and fifty six dollars if they win. It's that simple that's bedford on an underdog in select college basketball games. And if they win you collect two hundred and fifty six dollars. The bank is open. Download the top rated draftkings sportsbook cap in use code art. Nineteen when you sign up to turn four dollars into two hundred and fifty six dollars if the underdog of your choosing pulls off the upset. That's code art. Nineteen for a limited time. Only at draftkings. Sportsbook must be twenty one or older virginia. Only new customers only restrictions apply see draftkings dot com slash sportsbook for details. If you or so many no has a gambling problem. Call virginia problem gambling. Helpline eight five three to thirty five hundred from wondering. I'm lindsey graham. And this is american history tellers our history. Your story. the vietnam war was one of the most divisive conflicts in american history begun as a clandestine military operation to stamp out communism in southeast asia. The conflict soon escalated into a full scale. War the dragged on for a decade amid rising death tolls reports of civilian massacres americans at home clashed violently over the increasingly unpopular war. Some saw as a battle for freedom and democracy others argued. It was a tragic mistake between all the shouting stood. The two point seven million american men and women who served during the war. Many returned home physically wounded. Many more would suffer the invisible wounds of post traumatic stress disorder and other mental health issues over fifty. Eight thousand americans died fighting in the unsuccessful war afterwards. The country turn towards creating a memorial to those lost but plans for a memorial to the vietnam war themselves soon became polarizing leading to a bitter prolonged dispute. The battle over the memorial would spark a cultural debate on the nature and purpose of art in america and lead to a reckoning over how a nation heals the wounds of collective loss. This is the last episode in our series on america's monuments. Fifty thousand names in the early nineteen seventies veterans of the vietnam war returned home to a nation divided. Many americans were exhausted by the devastating toll of a failing war. Unlike the soldiers who had returned triumphant after the victories of world war one and world war two vietnam veterans came home to face confusion indifference or outright hostility. Many returning veterans found it difficult to obtain the government benefits and services. They needed because the office of veterans affairs had allocated too many resources to older veterans from korea in world war two and struggle to reactivate to civilian life into a nation where by nineteen seventy-one three-quarters of americans oppose the war. They'd fought in in nineteen seventy. Three congress made their first attempt to officially recognize the tremendous toll that the war took an illinois representative proposed a resolution to honor the vietnam war dead with a grove of trees. The resolution passed but went nowhere. On april thirtieth nineteen seventy five with the fall of saigon to north vietnamese forces. The vietnam war finally came to an end but echoes of the trauma and loss lingered in the minds of the american public and its veterans. It was unclear how the country could begin to heal itself or how commemoration or memorial could help that process then in nineteen seventy seven. The washington post ran an editorial written by twenty seven year. Old veteran named jan scruggs. The piece was focused on. What he felt was a continued indifference toward his fellow. Vietnam veterans scruggs wrote. Perhaps a national monument is in order to remind an ungrateful nation of what it has done to its sons as a teenage member of the one hundred ninety. Nine th light. Infantry brigade scruggs was added in battle by a rocket-propelled grenade after a stay at a military hospital. He returned to combat only to watch twelve fellow. Soldiers die in ammunition. Truck explosion in nineteen seventy. That's what gave me. Ptsd he would later. say after. Returning home scruggs turned his energies to helping establish mental health services for his generation of vets. Although he agreed with many vets that the va need reform. Scruggs knew there was a larger more symbolic issue. No one had yet figured out how to memorialize such a prolonged and problematic war or how to build a monument for the first modern war. America had lost scrub set. Aside his own conflicted feelings over the rightness or wrongness of america's role in vietnam to begin to think about how to create a memorial himself beginning with twenty eight hundred dollars of his own. Money scruggs initiated a campaign in early nineteen seventy-nine to solicit donations and raised over one million dollars toward the memorial's construction. He formed a nonprofit foundation. Called vietnam veterans memorial fund. He knew little about fundraising and less about lobbying. What his charisma and earnestness started making a mark in washington d. c. then scruggs found a willing ear and ten thousand dollars from businessman. Ross perot perot's college roommate at the us naval academy had been killed in action abi at phnom and perot felt emotionally bound the issue more donations followed by memorial day of nineteen eighty. Just one year later. Congress took up scruggs call lawmakers passed a bill authorizing three acres in constitution gardens on the national mall for vietnam memorial following a speech by president. Jimmy carter skunk spoke to the press about how his foundation would choose the design for the memorial. We do not seek to make any statement about the correctness of the war rather by honoring those who sacrificed we hope to provide a symbol of national unity and reconciliation but what the symbol would look like was anything but certain scruggs group announced it would hold a design competition. It would be judged blindly and open to anyone. The rules were simple. Submission should be reflective and contemporary live in character. The names of all fifty eight thousand fallen soldiers would have to be incorporated into the design. And lastly all entries would have to be non-political. They were to express no opinion whatsoever about whether the war had been. Right or wrong organizers. Sent the rules in a call for submissions to architecture firms as well as art and architecture schools across the united states and all across the country designers artists architects and even college students began readying their submissions. Imagine it's late. January nineteen eighty-one. You're an architecture student at yale university this semester you signed up for a class called funerary architecture from the stone age to the present the fancy tile for what is actually a landscape design class focused on studying and designing memorials. This evening. you're eating in the dining hall with your classmate maya. She's in the class. To complaining about your professor pastime. You both enjoy so stupid. You couldn't have a memorial for world war three because by definition world war three kills everyone. Who would be around to build it you not. You're totally right. Professor bird was too hard on you. And critics memorials to wars. Need to be honest about the immensity of it. All they have to have to convey the toll in the sacrifice. Well what about the vietnam memorial competition. You could enter that definitely. Should i think i've already got a pretty good idea for well. I wish you the best of luck. Because there's gonna be like what hundreds thousands of entrance thousands definitely billion's a billion entrance. Chuckling mile looks down at her plane twirling gravy into her mash potatoes. I don't really care about winning the competition. I just wanted to make a meaningful design. Yeah i'm sure that winter. Be some figurative nonsense anyway. Some general on a horse of the have horses anyway. Some sort of patriotic erection the washington monument. Well actually i remember when we drove down to washington to constitution gardens. That's where they're gonna place the thing nine this idea. It's a beautiful park. You know you don't have to destroy by plopping some statue there. So why not use the landscape instead of fighting with well i keep going back to those world. War one memorials. We research you know. They're so powerful. So simply can't look away from the horror battles. You notice that. Mike has been moving her fork around the potatoes. Sculpting them into a kind of v-shape this is the ground. And then you work down into it stood up. You fit the sculpture to the earth and the walls. Come up like this. You're making a sculpture out of mashed potatoes. I can just see it on the walls right down all the names of every single soldier who died over fifty eight thousand of them all those people dying for a war. We didn't win at a country. That didn't even want us there. Well cheers to the american way. You raise your plastic cup and chest but my doesn't return the gesture. She's got a faraway look in her eyes. I think all the people knew those soldiers their relatives their friends. Those are those are the people that memorial is really for. My face is determined. She's putting some thought into this. You're not sure you see much point. They say the submission process is anonymous. But you don't believe that for a second powers-that-be arkansas entrust the design of such a high stakes memorial to some college student. Even wanna talented. Maya lin was a twenty one year old landscape architecture major at yale university her professor andrew burr encouraged all nine of the students in his funerary design class to submit for the memorial competition. Burr himself submitted a design proposal. And at the last minute. So did maya lin. The vietnam memorial design competition received more than fourteen hundred submissions. So many that. The memorial fund acquired a hangar at andrews air force base to display all the entries for judging to oversee the competition the memorial fund appointed an architect named paul sprayer again and he in turn selected a panel of eight jurors. Judge the entries. The jurors were mix of artists architects and urban designers. But none of them were veterans of any war in may nineteen ninety-one. The jurors reached a decision. The winning design was entry number ten twenty six sketch simply and plainly from three different angles. The design imagine to walls of reflective black granite that slopes down into the ground joining in a wide chevron shaped v. One wall pointed at the washington monument. The other at the lincoln memorial etched into the walls were the names of the fallen. Soldiers listed chronologically according to the date. Each soldier had died. The handwritten statement described the memorial as a rift in the earth. The jurors wrote that lens designed was an eloquent place with the simple meeting of earth sky and remembered names messages for all but if the jurors were surprised that the winning entry was a college. Student named maya lin. No one was more surprised than lynn herself. Retired marine colonel sent by the memorial fund. Stunned lynn when he arrived at her dorm room and informed her that she'd won the competition. Her prize was twenty thousand dollars. Sixty thousand and today's money. Please in excited with maya lin's vision for the memorial. Jan scruggs rush to show the winning designed to ross perot since his initial donation for o had contributed an additional one. Hundred sixty thousand dollars. But now seeing lin's design for oh balked up to this point in history. Traditional warm oriels had been of men engaged in battle a hero leading a charge against an anonymous enemy. Soldiers caught in the moments just before or after victory with her winning design. Maya lynch challenged that tradition. Instead she created something pointedly abstract the vietnam memorial was a question mark than explanation point. Ross perot despised it soon. He would be joined by other vocal dissenters. Vietnam veterans who would argue against lens design and against scruggs and his the debate with pit veteran against veteran and threatened to swallow any goodwill the memorial might generate like the conflict it sought to commemorate the vietnam memorial itself would become a magnet for controversy protested an anger american history tellers sponsored by better help. The pursuit of happiness is an american ideal. But it's not an american guarantee it's only the pursuit that we have a right to not the achievement and sometimes the pursuit get so tiring you want to quit when your own feelings become an obstacle in your pursuit of happiness. It's time to talk better. Help is therefore you better help. We'll assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. Someone you can begin communicating with in under forty eight hours. It's not a crisis line. It's not self help. It's professional counseling. Done securely online log into your account anytime and message with your counselor or scheduled video or phone sessions. It's more convenient and more than traditional counseling and banner. Help is committed to finding you. The right counselor switch anytime easily and at no charge visit. Better help dot com slash tellers. That's better l. p. And join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional so many better help is recruiting more counselors in all fifty states. Get ten percent off your first month at better. Help dot com slash tellers. It didn't take long for the winning design of the vietnam memorial to generate controversy. But it wasn't just the design. It was the woman behind it that some people objected to maya lin was born in nineteen fifty nine and raised in athens ohio. Her parents were chinese immigrants. Lynne's father was an accomplished potter. Her mother was a poet and scholar of chinese literature as she explained in an interview i was born and raised in the midwest surrounded by non chinese people and never really looked at myself as a minority. I looked at myself as just like any other kid. But some of her critics used her identity as a way to discredit her cartoons depicted her as a sinister asian figure. Undermining american troops male critics pointed to her youth and gender as reasons to dismiss her still lynn's designed struck a chord with many. Even though she had no personal experience of the war she sought to commemorate her design in its underlying. Concept stood out to the jury of the vietnam veterans memorial fund in a statement written as part of the proposal. Lynn explained thinking. I imagine taking a knife and cutting into the earth names alone would be. The memorial was no need to embellish the design further. The people and their names would allow everyone to respond and remember black. Granite would make the surface reflective and peaceful. The mirror defect would double the size of the park. Creating two worlds one. We're part of and one. We cannot enter lin's design featured another striking choice. The names of the dead and missing soldiers would be listed year by year in order of the date that they were declared dead. In this way the names of the soldiers would tell the story of the war against the sparse. V-shape walls returning veteran would be able to find his or her time service. When finding a friend's name lynn wrote it would create a psychological space for them. That directly focused on human response and feeling but lynn's intentions were quickly lost in a torrent of controversy. As soon as the vietnam memorial designed was announced in the press ladders from outrage. Veterans began to pour into the offices of the memorial fund. One complained that the design had all the warmth and charm of a black dagger army major wrote that the memorial was just a black wall that expresses nothing indeed for many veterans. It was the simplicity of the design. That was so affronting. The memorial didn't look like either a traditional picture of victory or a traditional tableau of suffering. One veteran wrote that it is so unfulfilling as a lasting memorial that no memorial would be a better alternative. The charge against the memorial was led by jim webb. An occasional wore novelist and full-time counsel for the house committee on veterans affairs web vietnam veteran himself soon found common. Cause with another vent and tom. Carl hart car heart had been an infantry platoon leader in vietnam and respond to purple hearts both web and car heart had initially been involved in the memorial fund foundation but they both found nothing to like in the foundations choice. As the months passed and became clear that the memorial fund was moving ahead with my lens design. Car hearts fury grew one needs no artistic education to see this design for what it is a black trench a black gash of shame and sorrow. Perhaps that's an appropriate design for those who would spit on vietnam veterans. Can america truly mean that we should feel honored by that black pit. The color black was one of the biggest points contention. Car hearts preference was something white and graceful. In fact car heart had also entered. The design. competition. His submission had been a figurative sculpture of soldier holding a fallen comrade. His face turned to the sky and anguish. Car heart would also have preferred designer of a different race. Anti asian sentiment ran high among certain segments of the vietnam veterans community in across american society. In general car heart was unafraid. To channel it. He demanded somewhere on the memorial. Should appear warning that it was designed by an asian though. He used a racial slur in his wording. His hope was that the memorial fund would cave to public pressure and start the competition over again. This time with an all veteran jury. Tensions were rising when in october. Nineteen eighty-one at a public. Hearing jan scruggs attempted to defend the design against vocal dissenters including web. And carl hart. The meeting was hosted by the us commission of fine arts the government agency that would oversee the memorials installation agency. Leaders hope to find a compromise between angry vats and the memorials design team before their disagreements reached a breaking point maginness. October nineteen eighty-one washington. Dc you're a lawyer and a vietnam vet and you've just left a public meeting to discuss the new vietnam war memorial. The one designed by that college girl with you is your friend and fellow vet paul. He's furious. did you see her girl. She left as quick as she could. Can't even stick around to answer questions insulted. Keep your voice down paul. Let's just talk outside. You and paul both served but different tours in different years. Still the two of you share the bond. You hate to him. This upset keeps ranting as you walk through the lobby of the fine arts commission headquarters. It hasn't even been ten years and they're already trying to forget about us. Literally burying with the so called memorial is just a trench in the ground cheese as you both step outside onto the sidewalk hall gets loud more animated practically shouting at the passing traffic. You know he's right. Carl hart guy. The memorial is shameful. Who paints a memorial black. You think two million veterans wanna be filled with shame. This evening was the second public. Viewing of the memorial design and there was as contentious as you thought it would be the designer. Was there the lynn girl. And you could tell. She was upset. Everyone was upset. You can hear other people arguing they spill out on the sidewalk beside you mash paul. I don't know the thing. Is i kind of like the design. I don't think it looks shameful. I think it's meant to be contemporary in reflective all wheels around a face you telling him you're okay with it. That's not what i would. Bill bill monuments. I think the design is appropriate hall shoves his finger your face a damn thing appropriate about death. People dying for their country with nothing to show for. All turns starts walking away a paul hall cars. This way. i'll walk starting to rain a walk in the rain. You throw up your hands. You know there's use trying to reason with paul when he gets like this wounds of the war fresher for him and they are for you. He's taking this memorial personally then again. Why shouldn't he twenty one who fought in the war or lost a loved one too. It is personal. You feel that way too but you were serious when you said you liked the lynn girls design. You appreciate the starkness of it. The simplicity but so many people seem to hate it. Memorials are supposed to bring people together. Not divide them. Maybe the critics have aucoin. Maybe all your fellow veterans who suffered this long deserves some sort of compromise. Something that will help them. Finally find some peace after the commission of fine arts meeting ended. Several veterans turned on each other. Jan scruggs confronted. Tom carl hart on the sidewalk calling him. A traitor wondering out loud whether they taught disloyalty at west point. Jim webb called scruggs pathetic and scrub shot back. That webb was akaki. Platoon leader a member of the elite and snobbish officer class in the days and weeks. That followed more veteran. Spoke out against the memorial. A prominent admiral resigned from the memorial fund. The marine corps league spoke out against it. And ross perot. Car hearts call to scrap the design and start a new competition but despite all the protests scruggs stuck to his guns and after several days of public hearings members of the commission of fine arts. Put the official stamp of government approval on lynn's controversial design undaunted. Jim webb recruited thirty congressman to sign a letter to president reagan part art critique part cease and desist letter demanded that reagan asked his secretary of interior to withhold permission for the groundbreaking scheduled for just a few months away but the president and his advisors declined to get involved by that winter. Plan for the memorial's construction were already underway. Lean enlisted architect. Ken cooper to head the construction team cooper already. An accomplished architect had also submitted. A designed the memorial competition but unselfishly. He embraced lens design as best he could having to dig and regret. A large portion of the national mall was a challenging task and the intense media. Scrutiny focused on the project only made it more difficult for lynn cooper's commitment to her design was an increasingly rare source of support having relocated from new haven to washington for the installation process. Lynn found herself both under the media microscope and very much alone articles and tv coverage portrayed her as a sullen humorless figure or as spoiled college student who failed to appreciate that she'd been granted the opportunity of a lifetime her asian heritage came up again and again often careless and cynical ways her handling of the issue could be as incisive as her memorial design in an interview with sixty minutes host. Morley safer asked her. How chinese are you as apple pie. She shot back. She also had to fight not only for herself but for her design at every turn. Lynn felt that politicians architects and bureaucrats were trying to chip away at the integrity of her vision for the memorial. She rejected attempts to make the marble less reflective and to add any explanatory text above the soldiers names but the more she defended her work the more critic sought to cast her as a stubborn or who was making the memorial less vietnam and more about her personal victory in the design competition with both sides refusing to budge the march nineteen eighty two groundbreaking fast approaching. It was unclear whether a middle ground could be reached but some the commission of fine art begun thinking perhaps the solution lesnar and taking anything away from the design but adding to it. They're surprising proposal for a compromise. We come in the form of a second entirely new sculpture. But it wasn't clear. If the addition would save maya lin's vision for the vietnam veterans memorial or ruin it conference tournaments are tipping off bubble teams are making their final push top seeds or preparing for what they hope is a long run draftking sportsbook. America's top rated sportsbook app is putting new customers in the center of the action bed. Four dollars on an underdog when two hundred and fifty six dollars if they win. It's that simple. That's bed four dollars on an underdog in select college basketball games and if they win you collect two hundred and fifty six dollars. The bank is open download. The top rated draftkings sportsbook app and use code art. Nineteen when you sign up to turn four dollars into two hundred and fifty six dollars if the underdog of your choosing pulls off the upset. That's code art. Nineteen for a limited time. Only draftking sportsbook must be twenty one or older virginia. 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Yo dot com slash. Listen in the spring of nineteen. Eighty two organizers. Broke ground on the national mall for the vietnam war veterans memorial but this only inflamed the controversy surrounding the memorials design too many involved in the memorials installation. It was clear that the voices of the critics needed to be acknowledged. Jan scruggs the head of the vietnam veterans memorial fund. Realized this as much as anyone. The memorial fund offices have been besieged with angry letters from all across the country. And this was the last thing scruggs had envisioned when he'd started the memorial fund two years earlier with his own money pressure was building from all sides to scrap mile ins design entirely or at least temperate with some kind of compromise. So scruggs listen to a proposal from a four star general michael s davidson davidson spoke at a small last minute meeting of senators and members of the military his proposal was this atta second figurative sculpture to the memorial site a sculpture that would be more fitting more heroic and more traditional jim. Webb one of the memorials loudest critics thought. This was a brilliant idea and he even had an artist in mind. Frederick heart had placed third in the memorial design competition a thirty eight year old figurative sculpture. Hearts work was muscular and realistic. His monument would be simple a bronze sculpture of slightly larger than life soldiers. One white one black one hispanic. The sculpture would not be complex or controversial there would even be a flak it would stand just above the vertex of the existing to walls towering over the grounds. But now it was maya lin's turn to voice displeasure. After enduring a year of verbal abuse in the press she insisted her memorial was not worth compromising if compromised. It becomes nothing even if it's a two hundred fifty foot long. Nothing heart responded. It's not my lind's memorial nor frederick hearts. Memorial is a memorial to four about the vietnam veterans to be erected by the american people in spite of what art wars occur. Lynn had already defended her designed against the memorial committees ideas to add protective railings. And a bandstand at an october. Nineteen eighty-two meeting of the commission of fine arts with only a month into the memorials opening. She urged commission members to reject heart sculpture. Altogether lynn argued. Any additional monument would make the entire wall and the space surrounding it simply a backdrop with some soldiers names on it under the new proposal. The wall of soldiers names would become nothing more than a retaining wall. A compromise was brokered. Heart second sculpture would be included but it would be placed far back from the wall and the commissions words it would create an entrance experience to the memorial. It was little comfort to lynn. That heart sculpture would not be ready until nineteen eighty four two years later but it did mean the memorial dedication in november would present the design as lynn and the memorial fund originally intended. Meanwhile lynn. an architect can't cooper's construction had other challenges to face starting with where to source. The memorials black granite. The best granite came from sweden or canada but some members of the memorial committee saw both countries as symbolic havens for draft dodgers so the final granite slabs were shipped from india and to accommodate all fifty eight thousand names. They original size of the walls had to be doubled and their height extended. Lynn also continued to resist calls to display. The dead soldiers names alphabetically. She pointed out an obvious drawback to the approach. There were six hundred sixty. Seven soldiers named smith listed alphabetically. Each man's uniqueness would fade into a confused mass. She insisted that the name should be displayed chronologically. According to the date of each soldier's death lynnwood later explain. I knew the time line was key to the experience. The design is just a list of the debt to find the name. Chances are you'll see others close by. You'll see yourself. Reflected in them dedication day arrived on november thirteenth. Nineteen eighty two two days after veterans day on a cool. Cloudy saturday morning. A parade of fifteen thousand veterans marched down constitution avenue from the national gallery to the memorial flags banners and regimental colours were proudly on display while some veterans carried handmade signs protesting the war despite all the controversy the dedication ceremony itself took place without protest at a podium near the memorial speakers introduced jan scruggs to polite applause jets flew over the national mall. The us marine band played but the focus remained on veterans soldiers of all ranks ages solemnly approached the wall of names gazing at and touching the black reflective granite. The memorial honored the dead but it would be up to the living survivors and family members to accept. Imagine as november. One thousand nine hundred two veterans day weekend you work as a general contractor in silver spring just north of dc. But today you've taken a cab down into the city to the national mall to meet your little brother and see the new vietnam memorial. You see james there on the edge of the crown right where you told you he'd be the two of you haven't spoken a while. He's younger by seven years. But he greets you with a wry smile. Good to see you old man to see you little brother got to tell you. I'm surprised you wanted to see this. Well i figured. I come down here taking all this nonsense for myself. The two of you head into the crowd. James miss vietnam. By the time he was of age they'd ended the draft so instead he went on to college. You weren't so lucky. The two of you fall in line with a slow moving crowd. It takes a moment before you realize. You're walking down a into the earth. James make small talk s and shuffle along. Well tell me been doing okay as business on. We've been doing fine. I've been doing fine. How about you still taking art classes. Yeah and waiting tables. But i've got some new pieces. I'm pretty excited about next to you. The black wall grows taller with each step. You take. you've been thinking a lot lately about the other men in your unit eddie perez steven nelson ones. Who didn't come back. you know. Their names are somewhere on this wall. But you can hardly bear to look for them. Hey all man look here. Your brother james stopped in front of one of the panels. Were there and semi one. Seventy two right. Would you like to find some of your friends. I've math of the panels. I should be around here somewhere. You look up the names so many names and your face reflected in them around you other veterans or softly crying some are touching the wall running their fingers over the names so quiet down here. James lowers his voice to a whisper. Find what were their names. His voice is so gentle so kind. You realize that the two of you have barely ever discussed the war before today. You weren't prepared for this moment at all. Place you're standing in is beyond a memorial or fancy. Artwork is something else entirely. It's a sacred space leukemia. The walls of dark polish granted. You start to scan the names soon enough. You'll find the ones. You're looking for visitors. To the vietnam memorial encountered a path. It slowly carried them down into the earth as did the walls of black granite rose up beside them revealing thousands of names. Without the imagery of flags or soldiers in combat to distract the names themselves became the substance of the moment. The high shine of the black granite reflected the park surrounding it and the viewers faces has tried to commune with those names. As lynn intended. The walls created two spaces. One we are part of and one. We cannot enter on the day of the dedication. Maya lin stood on the upper level of the memorial. Just another face in the crown. She was proud of what she accomplished but also understood that. Even though the walls design was hers it now belonged to the world. She later recalled. I was in tears watching these men welcoming themselves home. After almost ten years of not being acknowledged by their country for their service their sacrifice the controversy surrounding the memorial didn't instantly vanish from the pages of the press but visitors hailed the monument for its interactivity its tranquility and a motive power. After the memorial's opening weekend there was suddenly little room left for conflict or criticism that same weekend. Frederick heart celebrated his commission by hosting a thank you dinner for his supporters including jim webb and tom carl heart. Two years later hearts memorial entitled the three soldiers was installed adjacent to maya lin's for his work hard earned three hundred thousand dollars fifteen times. What lynn received. The vietnam memorial remains one of the most visited sites in the national park. Service veterans. come to find the names of their fellow. Soldiers families look for the names of their loved ones. They leave poetry and artwork as remembrances a visit to the memorial inspires. The emotions echoed in the words of columnist. James kilpatrick kilpatrick had been one of the memorials most vocal opponents. But after seeing it he wrote nothing. I had heard or written had prepared me for the moment i could not speak i wept. This memorial has pile drivers impact. No politics no recriminations. The memorial carries a message for all ages. This is what war is. All about mile lin had the vision and temerity create a space that defied convention and in so doing she solemnly respectfully and honestly memorialize the fallen veterans of the vietnam war. I did not want to civilize war by glorifying. It forgetting the sacrifices involved men wrote the price of human life in war should always be clearly. Remember next on american history tellers. I talk with clint smith staff writer for the atlantic and author of the forthcoming book. How the world is past a look at how monuments and landmarks across america grapple with the history of slavery. We'll talk also about the complicated history of some of the monuments in this series and the national conversation happening right now around confederate statues of from wondering. This is episode six of america's monuments for american history to us. If you like our show please give us a five star rating. Leave a review. Be sure to tell your friends. I also have two other podcasts. You might like american scandal and business. Movers subscribe on apple. Podcasts amazon music. Wanna react or wherever. You're listening right now. Join one replacing the wondering app to listen at free. You'll also find some links and offers from our sponsors. The episodes supporting them helps us. Keep offering our shows for free another way. You can support the show. It's by filling out a small survey at wondering dot com slash survey. You can also find us and me on twitter and facebook. follow the show at. Ah tellers nine at lindsey graham and thank you for more information on the vietnam memorial. We recommend a rift in the my james rest junior merican history tellers has hosted edited produced by me. Grab for audio editing by molly bach. Sound design by derrick barnes. This episode is written by. George ducker headed by dory marina our senior producers. Andy herman producers are jenny. Lower backman and marshal louis created by hernan lopez for wondering. Hey this is jillian michaels. I want to grab this opportunity to tell you about my podcast. Keeping it real. It's my true passion project as i personally. Endeavor to explore the most powerful and potent components of human transformation across all aspects of life from medicine fitness and nutrition to parenting money and relationships. Keeping it real delivers on the promise of raw authentic forward-thinking conversations with the world's foremost experts guests like dr sanjay gupta lisa ling. Suzie orman lindsay. Bond brian greene elisa slesinger kelly mcgonagall and a host of other top doctors athletes entrepreneurs scientists and more if like me you're constantly striving to learn more do more and be more. Subscribe to keeping it real on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Democrats' Dilemma in Virginia

CNN's The Daily DC

09:03 min | 2 years ago

The Democrats' Dilemma in Virginia

"Hey, your confidence is important and sometimes one change can make all the difference hair. Club knows this and they're inviting you to become part of the hair club family to see how getting the most out of your hair can change your life. Go to hear club dot com slash teepee. N today for a free hair analysis and a free take home hairc-haircut all valued at over three hundred dollars. That's hair club dot com slash teepee. N for a free hair analysis and free haircare kit hair club dot com slash TBN with over two million Americans suffering from opioid addiction. Walmart is taking action to help communities across the country by limiting certain non chronic prescriptions to a seven day supply and requiring e prescriptions for controlled substances by twenty twenty to help tackle the crisis and save lives. Learn more at WalMart dot com slash prevention. Hey, everyone. I'm David chalian CNN political director, and this is the daily DC. Thanks so much for listening today on the podcasts. The Democrats dilemma, you know, doubt have seen the chaos and drama and scandal just coursing through Virginia Democratic Party politics because the three top statewide elected officials, all Democrats in Virginia are all facing scandals to are facing their past that they have confessed to of appearing in black face back in the eighties and Lieutenant governor Justin Fairfax is facing charges of sexual assault that he denies but his accuser has come forward with a very detailed statement and account of the incident back in two thousand four it's fascinating to watch. How national Democrats in addition to those Democrats in Virginia, but nationally how they are responding to all. Of these stories. There was a rush to condemn nor them last Friday when the story emerged that he was picturing his yearbook emerged and then on Saturday healed the press conference where he says that wasn't him in the picture. Even though he said, it was then went on to say that he did indeed where black face when trying to impersonate Michael Jackson. There was a rush among national Democrats to tell him to resign everyone, including prominent Virginia officials like former governor Terry McAuliffe. Mark Warner Tim Kaine every presidential contender, nor the Musco nor the must resign nor the and gone anywhere yet. Now, his potential successor facing sexual assault allegations and his potential successor the attorney general admitting to putting on black face while a student at university of Virginia in one thousand nine hundred impersonating rapper. But here's the thing. Democrats are not calling for Lieutenant governor Justin Fairfax or attorney general Mark. Daring to resign. So far, the only person they've called on to resign in large numbers. I should say is Ralph northern the governor. Now today, we're starting to hear from some of those twenty twenty Democrats Kamala Harris Kirsten gillibrand we heard from Cory Booker on the Fairfax allegations and to a person. Now, they are saying that these are credible allegations believable. And that Dr Taylor is to be believed and that there should be an investigation, but they're coming up short on calling for resignation. So when when it comes to north them it is resign now. But when it comes to Fairfax, these nationally prominent Democrats are saying that. Do you act as credible? He denies it. And there should be a full investigation, but they all stopped short of calling for his resignation now, these are many, many of the same Democrats who when Brad Kavanagh was before the Senate Judiciary committee and facing charges of sexual assault by Dr Blasi Ford, they deemed those charges to be credible. And to make him a disqualified for the supreme court now in reality. Those Democrats were going to vote against Brad Kavanagh, irrespective of the Blasi Ford allegations ever coming to light a, but there was a different approach to the to the punishment. Now, many Democrats did call for more time for a full and thorough FBI investigation. And there was that delay of a week as you recall, but even without as throve investigation as they wanted with whatever investigative mature. Israel's the Senate Judiciary committee was able to provide all the senators they still deemed the punishment to be not suitable to serve on the United States premium court. So the question becomes why are these Democrats not of the mind that Lieutenant governor Justin Fairfax should continue to serve as Lieutenant governor. If indeed Dr Taylor's version of events is believable and credible. Yes, Lieutenant governor is denying them. But does that mean that the Democrats are treating this somewhat differently by not calling him ill-suited to serve there in a tricky place here because there seems to be zero tolerance on black face a zero tolerance for let's say Al Franken. The former Senator Minnesota for his behavior and urging him to resign from the United States Senate. But now. There seems to be something short of that. In terms of what Democrats are calling for in Virginia. And it begs the question why and how you know after sixteen years or fifteen years is there going to be a fully thorough credible investigation conducted in what is right now. A he said she said moment, but these Democrats say what she says, I believe so it just seems to me that this is going to be a bit of an untenable place for Democrats to sit for very long now. The larger point of what's happening in Virginia is fascinating, politically, we are at the end of a tenure experiment now who maybe a little longer than that of Democrats trying to and then successfully flipping Virginia from red to a blue state and in terms of presidential politics since two thousand eight in has become that a reliable. Blue state, perhaps we saw the beginnings of that with the two thousand six Senate election in Virginia with Jim Webb. But it has been a longtime project of the Democratic Party to make use of the demographic changes specially in northern Virginia. The heavily populated northern Virginia DC suburban area and exurban area. And of course, those demographics are not changing. So those are still democratic voters that are in those most populous places in the state, but there's clearly a brand problem going on right now with the Virginia Democrats, and how much is that brand problem going to cause them some heartache the next time voters in Virginia head to the polls. Now as many people have pointed out, it's not like the Republicans in Virginia have been able to make grand appeals to the broad swath of the electorate with their own brand problems when you have hardliner like Corey Stuart as the Senate nominee, but the Democrats here all three in the top elected positions. All three facing scandals clearly creates more than just a momentary headache for Democrats. But potentially a real brand ide- problem for the party heading into this next cycle. I would be shocked to see the Trump campaign who competed in Virginia that the two thousand sixteen not see more of an opportunity to try and exploit these problems even a year and a half out the next time around it'll be interesting to see how much they lean into Virginia. Again, it really has become a more reliably blue state. We will test that proposition in the light of these scandals at the moment. But for the national. Kratz? They've got a real messaging problem to solve here about what is tolerated, and what isn't tolerated from their top officials their elected officials in their own party that does it for this edition of the daily DC. Thank you so much for listening hope you'll tune in again right here tomorrow. Hey, Sekou Smith here from the hang time podcast. Join me, and my main man John Shuman every week as we break down, the latest, NBA, news and storylines with. Yes. From around the league, be sure to subscribe to NBA hang time on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash podcast for new episodes every Monday and Thursday this season.

Virginia Lieutenant governor Justin Fai Virginia Democrats Virginia Democratic Party assault hair club Senate Judiciary committee United States Senate Dr Taylor university of Virginia DC Walmart Brad Kavanagh NBA TBN Democratic Party Fairfax
June 7, 2019: U.S. Keeps Up Mexico Tariff Threat; Musical 'Hadestown' Gets 14 Tony Nods

Here & Now

41:43 min | 2 years ago

June 7, 2019: U.S. Keeps Up Mexico Tariff Threat; Musical 'Hadestown' Gets 14 Tony Nods

"This message comes from here and now sponsor indeed. If you're hiring with indeed, you can post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard. Get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast from NPR and WB. You are, I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I'm Lisa Mullins. It's here, and now the president is on his way home from D day commemorations in Europe, and is turning his focus to tariffs, according to White House press secretary, Sarah Sanders, he still plans to order a five percent tariff on all goods coming to the us from Mexico. The president's threatening tariffs to try to get Mexico to stanch the influx of central Americans trying to enter the country. Mexico says it will deploy six thousand troops to its border with Guatemala to try to stop migrants. Coming from their NPR's chief economics. Correspondent Scott Horsely joins us now. Hi, scott. Good to be with you. So Mexico has made some concessions, but the administration is not apparently satisfied by those. In sessions. Here's Mark short. Chief-of-staff vice president Pence talking about apprehensions at the US southern border. It's more about actually seeing what are the actions taken that will drop those numbers, a hundred forty four thousand last month with our pace this year over a million apprehensions on our side of the border, the apprehension on the other side of the border have been declining, so we need to see Mexico's actions. What sort of actions would it take for the White House to nocco through with tariffs? The Trump administration, not only wants Mexico to seal off its own southern border with Guatemala, which has been the gateway through, which the central Americans have been starting their journey towards the United States. It also wants Mexico to crack down on central Americans who are already in Mexico, making their way north and it wants to basically have Mexico provide a waystation for those who are seeking asylum in the United States. In fact, the Trump administration would rather see those Central American seek asylum in Mexico rather than coming to the you. Yes. The administration has been very frustrated with the growing number of undocumented migrants, who have been apprehended at our southern border each month. There were this week, we learned that one hundred and forty four thousand undocumented migrants were apprehended it, it in the month of may. There have been more than one hundred thousand apprehended in each of the last three months, that is a big source of frustration for the president, and that's the number. He wants to, to see change question is could Mexico accommodate hundreds of thousands of migrants? A Mexican officials in US economists have all pointed out that hurting the Mexican economy through tariffs could just give people there and, and, and more reason to try to move to another country, such as the United States. Yeah, this could have the perverse ricochet effect of simply worsening Mexico's economy and actually causing more migration from Mexico. We have not seen a very large influx of migrants from Mexico, although Mexico has been. A transit point for central Americans come into US. But if Mexico's own economy, takes a hit as a result these tariffs that could certainly change US Mexico are running out of time, though, the tariffs are set to be imposed on Monday, any sense of how the talks could progress between now and then well, only in the sense that we've we've had a couple of years to watch this president do as negotiations. And there's often a lot of brinkmanship involves. So this could certainly come right down to the wire. Or even the tariffs could go into effect as a as a cultural to try to get Mexico to, to move further. You've been reporting scout on the jobs report that came out earlier today. It is rather weak on. I wonder if Donald Trump's trade policies are having the impact on employment. Here rather weak is an understatement. The US adage, uh seventy five thousand jobs last month. That's less than half of what analysts had been forecasting, and it's about half of what has been the average over the last three months. Certainly some observers have pointed to two. Trade tensions as a possible factor in the to the extent that it has contributed to uncertainty among employers. And when we're talking about trade tensions here, we're talking about China, obviously, the threat of tariffs on Mexican imports has come up just since this, this job survey was done back in the middle of may. But the China tariffs were already in place at that point. So certainly trade could be a part of it. I should say, I spoke earlier today with Kevin Hassett, the White House economist he downplayed the significance of the may jobs, numbers, suggest, this could be a temporary. Blip. Let's take a listen. There's a big weather story in this number. And I think that that's something, a lot of people have missed. But the flooding in the Mississippi is really, really serious thing that it closed I twenty nine a lot of the ports for closed. And our estimate is that it took about forty thousand off this number. And that's something that we would expect to bounce back as soon as the floods. Got willing receive lease I happen to be in Saint Louis this past week and and witness some of that high water of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, and certainly that has had an impact on transportation. It may affect a warehousing employment. But no question this was a big downshift in what had been a pretty robust job growth, and it's going to be another factor that the Federal Reserve will take into account when the Fed's interest rate, setting committee meets in less than two weeks. They're going to be under some pressure to cut interest rates to try to prolong the economic expansion, maybe not in their June meeting, but sooner rather than later and investors are sort of banking on a interest rate cut in the not too distant future. That's one of the reasons we're seeing the big surge on Wall Street today. NPR chief economics, correspondent, Scott Horsely think he's gone. Great to be with you, Lisa. Well, it's been more than thirty years since Yucca Mountain in Nova. Data was picked as the nation's nuclear waste site. The state of Nevada has been fighting the project ever since and under the Obama administration. The plan was scrapped but fast forward to the Trump White House and the long running debate about storing nuclear waste in Yucca Mountain is back on the table. Noah Glick for member station. K U, N R reports parole. Nevada is one of the closest towns to Yucca Mountain, which sits in nyc county one of the poorest areas in Nevada. Today. Good her. You Maryland Davis moved here eighteen years ago. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of good things that happened here, like many people in this small town of thirty six thousand Davis supports opening the waste site. It will never have houses. There will never be people living there. Why not use it? And, and do something useful with the property Davis runs. The town's museum and historical society and the history of Yucca Mountain is the central exhibit, and this is just the overall picture of what's actually, Yucca Mountain. If you're wondering, Yucca Mountain is an actual mountain the idea is that holes and tunnels would be drilled into it to hold high level spent nuclear fuel sent from sites around the country, but there's no waste in Yucca Mountain today. The repository was defended under the Obama administration down the road from the museum, Megan Thomas manages the local hardware store. She wants to see the way site come to anything that would help our economy would be great. This town. Need some fresh blood new businesses Thomas grew up in Peru. And was a teenager when the project was defended that means much of the roughly ninety thousand metric tons of the nation's nuclear waste continues to be stored where it's produced onsite in large pools at nuclear power plants, but the Trump administration says it makes sense to have a central repository, and there's renewed congressional interest in that idea, the US house appropriations committee recently debated the issue, Idaho Republican, Mike Simpson, wants to get the project up and running it. It's time to stop the needless delays in this process, forty eight out of fifty three of us on this committee have nuclear waste in our states, but not everyone in Nevada. Once that waste the western shoshoni nation says the land is sacred and should not be poisoned, and Nevada. Democratic Senator Jackie Rosen has several concerns. It's hard to imagine that shipping over five thousand truck casts of high level nuclear waste over a span of fifty years won't result, in at least one radiological release. Plus. Yes, she says, Yucca Mountain is next to the nation's largest air force live munitions testing area. So does it really make sense to transport and store a nation's nuclear waste right next to a military bombing range? There's also an elephant in the room trust or lack of it. Abby Johnson works with neighboring Eureka county with above and underground nuclear weapons testing people in Nevada had already experienced being lied to by the federal government and had had their families poisoned by fallout. From the atomic bombs, some Nevada ends are willing to trust the government again, Darryl lacy is the director of the Yucca Mountain project in Nike. He says the site offers a chance to get federal dollars for key services transportation issues or something we talk a lot about improve Todd ways, but let federal government pay for it as part of the Yucca Mountain project as for transporting spent nuclear fuel that happens safely all the time. He says, he's more worried about the current patch. Work of nuclear waste storage across the nation. There's fifteen or so shutdown nuclear power plants today, that have waste sitting on concrete pads behind a chain link fence with a couple of cops we've been dealt, the hand that's county Commissioner Leo Blundell. And now you have to make the best out of it. You turn lemons and eliminate Blundell says, Nevada could adopt a similar idea to Alaska's permanent fund, which pays Alaska residents regular dividends from oil revenues for Nevada's, it would be nuclear waste. Dividends overall? He calls the project and opportunity, we could have post secondary education UNLV school of nuclear engineering, nuclear physics and nuclear reprocessing. Okay. So we could take it all the step further. I wanna be reprocessing. This material is fast. Coming in reprocessing in getting it out of Nevada in tight vote, the US house appropriations committee decided against refunding the Yucca Mountain project, but the Senate is still considering it and both sides say the fight isn't over yet for. Here. Now, I'm Noah Glick. We'll Lisa another story. We're following NASA says it is going to open up the international space station to tourism as early as twenty twenty and people will be able to go up there for thirty days. And here's the cost thirty five thousand dollars a night to stay there very expensive hotel. But fifty million at least to get there must have a pretty good for that. Hopefully you get a lot of points if you do that. Support for here and now and the following message come from ember wave the revolutionary new personal thermostat ever wish feeling too hot or too cold were optional as summer heats up outside just press for thermal wave designed to provide cooling relief over air conditioned inside leave that sweater in the car and rely on ember wave instead, learn more at ember wave dot com and use code NPR to say fifty dollars at checkout, ember wave control your comfort. The Tony awards are on Sunday and the musical Haiti's town, which opened on Broadway. April has been nominated for fourteen awards, including best musical. It's a retelling of the Greek myth of. Fiene. Aneurin eurydice. Orpheus as young dreamer and songwriter. And Eurydice is his muse who captures the attention of Haiti's who brings her into the underworld Orpheus follows your to see down to rescue her the book lyrics and music of Haiti's town, or by singer-songwriter, Naess Mitchell, it's directed by Rachel Chad can both have been nominated for Tony's? I saw it last year in London before the cast picked up and headed for New York, and I sat down with three cast members Patrick page, who plays Haiti's, Eva noblest oughta who played ritzy and re Carney, who plays Orpheus, I began by asking what it's like to take an old tale and make it new with the nays Mitchell's music. I think the gritty of Greek tragedies. They exist to teach us about ourselves. And so our show places in undetermined time within sort of a club setting. So it feels like it does have a timeless element. But in a different way than they Greek myths it feels new because of the songs. But you're right. It's, it's undetermined, maybe depression, maybe even earlier than that. Yeah. And the music for me was the thing that attracted me to the project to begin with. It was unlike anything, I'd heard on Broadway, before more like things, I listened to at home, like Leonard Cohen, Tom waits. Jeff Buckley Joni Mitchell, it had a sound that just hooked me in and songs that I wanted to sing and songs that I wanted to listen to tell everybody that my dirty little secret about the show is that although I've now been involved with this show vra period of three years and performed. Many times and rehearsed it many many many, many times I will still when I go to the gym put on a song of the show at work out because I liked the music that much either. What about you what attracted you to this show? I think the fact that the music is very expressive. So no matter who's listening to it with their musical background may have been when they were growing up or what influences them most the music is kind of free for all you take what you get and you let it wash over you, and it's such an experience for the singer's performance as well. It sounds different to me every night. So it's hugely fresh every single night. I was gonna wait to ask you about this Patrick, but since people have just heard your voice we have to talk on how low it goes in has show. I mean I it's just when you speak. It is this deep voice, unlike any other, but in the show you have to sing very, very low. Hey, little song, or give me a sal-. I'm a busy man and I can't stale. Yeah. Wrote this crazy role, which is the king of the underworld and, you know, it is truly we call it sometimes folk opera. And I'm never sure exactly what that means. But in terms of the way it stretches the singers, voices, you know, I don't have to do a whole lot to embody the king of the underworld, because NASA has already done that with where she's written the role. So he sings in way that you don't normally hear someone saying on stage and that tells you right off the bat. Oh, he's, he's supernatural. He's not a human being. And in a way, she's done the same thing with Orpheus read has to sing these very high Diculeng high notes. It's actually really exciting to be involved in the project. That allows you to use those parts of your range, because it is quite unusual on both low in high end for Patrick, and I but it's a it's, it's great 'cause I grew up listening to a lot of female singers and Bobby mcferrin was a huge influence on me. And so for me it's quite it's awesome to have a chance to mess with that onstage in the actual thing. Well, the other thing is it really brings forward, the idea that your character with those high notes sort of the idealist, and you Patrick are, are of the realist, you're, you're down on the ground. Old opera tradition base being the heavy imitator being the hero, you know, and it's and yet completely modern in this context that word modern Eva, how do you take a character like yours sort of scrappy and make it modern and relatable scrapping out modern? Well in the original myth, your doesn't really have a voice she kinda just waifs around and then goes back down underground and I think what's incredible is that with the people, the creative team, they've really allowed me to express it in a way that she is very scrappy and punky, and she's survivor, but she also uses her instincts to make certain choices without giving much away and there's also beautiful love story. And that's also I think as modern as you can get with portraying falling in love. Everyone can relate to that. So, yeah, I just it was nice to give her a voice and for her not to be victimized in this play. No. You're doing this show in the United States at a time. When obviously we've been hearing a lot about building the wall, President Trump talking about building the wall in your show, which was written before President Trump started saying that you. Patrick, your character has people building a wall. And there's a song about it. The wall, people's three kill kill towels all of us. Yeah. I mean, in addition to being an extraordinary, poet, lyricist and composer at seems that an ask his a bit of a profit, right? And she's taken this idea of wall and a wall that can never be finished, which must always be worked on and put it into the show. But she said once, you know that any similarity between that wall and any current wall, being built or or pretending to be built in the United States is purely archetypal, but there's gonna be a reaction in this country that is going to be probably different even than than overseas just because of the conversation that's going on right now. It is different. But anytime you have someone who's trying to hold onto power, which is what my. Actor is doing trying at that moment to build up his own sense of himself its own sense of power because his relationship is threatened with his marriage a political things come from personal things. So he's feeling threatened in his personal life. He goes out on a whole rally in which he gets everyone to chant about building wall. What about the politics of it? Well, I think I agree with Patrick. I think that the physical walls. We tend to create as humans tend to stemmed from emotional walls things walls that we build against intimacy and togetherness unity, all those things. I mean, there's so many walls, you can build that prevent you from feeling something that's, that's where I think it starts, and our show deals with those themes. I mean you know, love fear hope trust doubt and the world now is so complex and moving so fast and so scary that it's not surprising to me that people. Would want to think. Oh, well, there's a solution will simply build this barrier, and we'll keep all of the good people inside and we'll put all of the people on the outside and will be safe. That's, that's what Haiti's is appealing to ABC's appealing to everybody's desire in particular, Eurydice desire to feel safe and comfortable at the expense of feeling. Loved feeling creative and feeling free. She can have one or the other. At least that's the bargain that I offer her until Orpheus shows are that necessarily, it's not like that. You can you can perhaps choose love and creativity and freedom, and you can still have some sense of security. I, I wanna just ask each of you finally, what it is like to do this show night after night after night after night for so long. It's great you discover new things every day. Don't you think? Yeah, you certainly do. And I mean, we were very lucky that with the company we get to keep with amber gay Andre de Shiels and our team, you know, a nasty Rachel champion who really is, you know, a genius the energy that the audience is now giving us this is my fifteenth Broadway show, and I have never ever seen any reaction like this from an audio what do you mean? It's like being at a rock concert. It's like being when I would go see Bano engine you to, you know, the, the energy that the audiences feeding to the stage, the energy, we have three four five hundred people waiting for us at the stage door when we come out because they don't want the experienced end. They wanna have just a little more contact with the people that I saw on the stage. So I know something very specialist happening that Patrick page, we've also been speaking with Reeve Carney and Eva nobles oughta, they are all in the musical. Haiti's town, which is on Broadway. At the Walter curve theatre. Thank you so much to all of you for joining us. Thank you. Anyway. The US economy added seventy five thousand jobs last month, according to a Labor Department report out today at number numbers, four below what was expected, and that is causing concern the unemployment rate is still at three point six percent. That's close to fifty year. Low Clare Sebastian is a business correspondent for CNN. She joins us from New York. Hi Claire high. So analysts had expected more than double the number of job gains for me. What happened? Yes. And it's not just about the main, but that's the only reason for concern also revisions to the numbers for Mont and April collective revision down of, of another seventy five thousand two to seventy five thousand causing concern hit, and really the reason why people's I worried is up until now. The jobs report was really seen as a bit of a bright spot, the jobs market, generally in, that's showing some signs of Frank. So it's starting to like, either the general said he related to slowing growth globally to trae tensions either. That is playing. Oh, really has the effect of a skills, gap companies, just not able to find the right people to fill jobs. They have a combination of the two. You mentioned trae talk about the tariff factor because President Trump is saying this afternoon he is preparing to impose tariffs on Mexico and Monday unless there's some kind of an agreement between the two countries between now and then the US has already in a trade war with China, is there a link between the disappointing job, creation numbers and the fears over trade. So it's hard to quantify exactly how much of this is related to trade, but generally that this helped create a sense of kind of Malays that could have led companies to hold back on, on hiring, really the first thing you get in terms of the impact of this trade will is a drop in confidence. And, and people putting plans on hold one coma said to me, this week, the one of the biggest risks to the economy is that we talk all selves into recession that even before you see a real pressure on costs from tariffs, and things like that real concrete impact that the drop in confidence is what's really corrosive. So, so the. Does seem according to that I've been speaking to that, that is, is has helped the drop of the posse months. And, and what bearing this will have on the Federal Reserve because during the recession the, the fed cut interest rates to near zero in two thousand fifteen the fed began raising rates, again, in the stronger economy. Now, apparently, they're debating potentially cutting rates. What, what is it weighing in that calculation? Yes. So that's whether that's why the markets are actually up today because they are now factoring integrates likelihood of the fat cutting rates. It's, it's basically based on the data the Federal Way say that data dependent so this week jobs report, as another data point that the fed is gonna factor in when it decides what to do next. It's just this week that drone pow Federal's of gave markets interpreted to be the clearest signal yet, that he may be willing to cut rates. That would be shop ton around this time last year, the fed was getting ready to, to raise rates. It did so four times over the past year. It was focusing more rate rises in twenty nineteen. Now. Potentially looking cutting, but the reason is that they're looking at the data that looking at the markets at the not saying inflation, take up now, unemployment, which is the other side of the mandate is looking looking shaky twos. Really, it does kind of compound into the potential for them to cut rates. Perhaps, not at the next meeting, if you took to, but perhaps, in the months ahead, if this continues, very briefly the strong and weak point in the economy or what so manufacturing has been a bit weaker that something that people are watching that's trade sensitive that is crucial things like factory output of showing weakness and their market signals to the yield curve has been inviting meaning investors. See short-term bonds riskier than longtime, but make signals consumer sentiment is still a very strong position clear Sebastian business correspondent for CNN. Nice to talk to clear. Thank you. Democratic presidential hopefuls have until next Wednesday to qualify for the first presidential debate later this month candidates have to either pole at one percent in three approved polls, or get donations from sixty five thousand people across twenty different states, and those requirements are drawing criticism. Particularly from the candidates who have not made it joining us to look at all. This is Michael shear national political reporter for the Washington Post, Michael. Hey, thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. And I wanna start with these qualifications candidates as we said have to pull at one percent and yesterday, the party announced that some polls would be excluded which is not going over. Well with some candidates, tell us what's going on there. Yeah. So when they announced the rules, they basically this was in February. They said you have to get at least one percent and three poles from a list of I think eighteen news organizations between the beginning of the year in January twelfth next week and they did not make any distinction about what kind of polls. Now, one of the polls, the Washington Post A B, C poll asked an open ended question, so instead of listing off multiple choice. Here's twenty names do you support for president? They just asked people. Who do you support for president now? The DNC had said privately earlier this year, and then publicly for the first time yesterday that they don't wanna take open ended polls, which cuts out to the news organizations. They originally listed, and effectively changes the rules that they announced in February, and that's going to affect really one candidate right now Montana governor, Steve Bullock who's third? Qualifying poll for the debates who was January BC Washington Post poll now doesn't have enough to qualify. Okay. So there are twenty. Eight spots when you look at these debates over two nights, but there are twenty four democratic candidates who so far has qualified in who hasn't. Well, the only four who have not yet met the polling threshold, which is easier one to meet at this point are Seth Moulton the congressman from Massachusetts Wayne mess him. Mayor from Florida and Bullock microbiology other one he's listed. Sometimes list of twenty four. Some people say twenty three candidates ring. So people say twenty four he hasn't really done any avent's, he doesn't have much of a campaign organization, but he also has not yet qualified in the pulse. Thirteen people have qualified both by polling, and by meeting, the sixty five thousand threshold that number could go up by next week because the number of people are still trying to meet that deadline. If Bullock or mess him or molten are able to quarrel GRA, valor able to qualify by polling before next week, then they'll be a runoff to figure out who run off. How does that work, yet, it's a little complicated? But in this case. It'll basically be the person with the highest polling. The problem is all these people are pulling it one percent. So how they actually figure that out will be complicated, and they may actually have to bring in the number of donors to, to do sort of tiebreak there. But, but if Bullock gets third poll, for instance before next week than than the they'll be twenty one people who've qualified and only twenty we'll be able to appear on, you haven't said the word super delegate yet. I assume they don't get involved if there's like tiebreaker to the tiebreaker. Yeah. No. Although it is true that Democrats tend to have incredibly complicated rules in the name fairness. And, and that is proving itself once again and just just more on the logistics here. How will it work? Once the debate stages are set, how do they decide who gets to go on which night? Well, so originally they said it would be basically random drawing. They didn't want to have a big table and a little table, like Republicans did in the last cycle. But they've since modified that to be. Somewhat more complicated in the name of fairness, they will now have to drawings. One drying will be people who are pulling for people who are pulling higher, and it will divide them between the two nights, and another second drawing people who are pulling lower to divide them between the today's the ideas that they didn't want to randomly put all of the top tier candidates on one stage and bottom tier candidates on the other stage. So they're putting in some insurance with it means practically is that, you know, the names that most Americans know and are interested in right now. The ones who've pulled above five percent, may not appear on the same stage or one or two of them may be cut out. They won't be able to appear on a stage with the two people are pulling the best right now. Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders and so there's some suspense in how this all sort out. Okay. Well, you mentioned the Republican primary last time around. So I wanna listen back to what that was, like, when there was a big debate stage filled with a lot of candidates August. Twenty fifteen the first Republican primary presidential debate, it was also divided into two. Britt sessions. And here's a moment where you got ten candidates on the stage and the Fox News, moderator, Bret Baier through the first question out to everyone and ask candidates to raise their hands and only one person did you can probably guess who that was. Let's listen. Is there anyone on stage and can I see hands who is unwilling tonight to pledge, your support to the eventual nominee of the Republican party and pledge to not run an independent campaign against that person? Again, we're looking to raise your hand now, raise your hand. Now, if you won't make that pledge tonight. Mr trump. To be clear. You're standing on a Republican primary fully understand. Okay. So there he is drawing. Boos minutes after that debate started. Now, I wonder looking back at that knowing that he's now the president of the United States. How important is it in a big field on a stage to get attention? Even if it's negative attention in a debate like this. Well, that was President Trump's real innovation in the twenty sixteen race and it clearly has benefited, I'm not just in the election. But, but in the White House, he continues to serve crave and do what he can to get attention every day. It's not clear, though. I think that, that would work with democratic electorate in quite the same way, you know, the parties tend to think differently and look for different things in their candidates this early in the process, the, the driving question among Democrats right now more than issues more than personality more than experience is really who can beat Troy. There's a real desire among Democrats figure out who can be Trump and I expect that these first two debates will be debated along those lines and they'll be different ways the different candidates have of making their case. And, you know, some of them will be showing weakness in the people the frontal line right now, especially Joe Biden, and some of it will just be trying to distinguish yourself in some way, as someone who could stand there with, with the president. You know, you're from now I bet that there will be at least one question in the debate, which, which is a raise your hand question, because it is an easy way to see if anybody stands out in the crowd. There will also be people, of course, who don't get a lot of time in these debates. I wanna listen to one more clip. This is from the first democratic presidential primary debate in October twenty fifteen on CNN, which had five candidates, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, and Jim Webb. And here's a moment when CNN's Anderson Cooper interrupted O'Malley, and you can hear. Jim Webb try to edges way in government, just for the record on the campaign trail. You've been saying that sector Clinton is always quick for the for the military invention. Senator secretary Clinton, you can respond. Well, first of all. On. Yes, you'll be coming next. But she was directly. I've been standing here for about ten minutes. It's gone back there. Ryan in the middle here and lots lots of things coming from all directions. Like there's gonna be at least one person like Jim Webb in these debates there will, and that was Jim Webb's last debate of then cycle as well. It didn't it didn't end well for him. Yeah. I think you're going to have at minimum ten people in each stage. Limited answers. Traditionally there's a there's a chance to respond if you're attacked and what that means and practices that the, the bigger names are attack, more often, and their forget more time to talk. I think a lot of the debate preparation over the next few weeks is going to be about if you only have three minutes introduce yourself here. What is the message you wanna get across and how do you want to deliver it? And each of those Kansas will will be practising and refining, and rehearsing those answers. And it may also be that the thing that, that we remember from these debates is the thing that no one prepared for which we can't really predict which will be. Montains and that's really what the debates provide a chance to sort of catch candidates out. See how they think on their feet and either perform don't perform, which are you ably as is the thing that distinguish Trump in the in the Republican primary last time. Well, I have to think that that the candidate at the top of the polls right now. Joe Biden is in a way, the one that has the most to lose here because all these other people, many of whom people in the country, haven't seen much of our finally get to see some of them, and maybe they will change their mind, even if they like Joe Biden right now. That's that's very possible. It's also possible he performs very well and his rivals, don't. It's also possible. He ends up picking a lucky draw and finds himself on stage which with a bunch of people who have real struggle, proving that they're, they're, they're likely to be elected. This is the first of twelve debate cycles. The DNC plans, we have we have a long road ahead of us, and whoever the nominee is going to be is going to have to sit through a lot of these performing Alana these Michael share national political reporter at the Washington Post. Thanks, thank you. We're going to get an update now on the new crisis in one of Africa's largest country, Sudan, opposition leaders demanding that a paramilitary unit. They carried out a violent crackdown earlier this week, be dismantled more than one hundred people were killed in the event, the opposition, also wants the military to hand over power to civilians, the BBC's, Catherine Biaro Hunga is in Khartoum and Catherine. Give us the background. I what laid the groundwork for the violence that we're seeing in Sudan now. So what we've had incident since December is a period of mass protests across the country, and the main demand from the people here had been the removal of the former president or Moba shea. He'd been empower over three decades the series of mass protests from December to April. When the was a message in, in the capital here. At that point, the army and other security forces joined with the prices, and they stage a coup against Bashir off to he was removed from office. The demonstrators went on to demand that the military the security forces should hand power over to civilian transition with authority. However, the military was opposed to this. They insisted that they should be the ones who had overall control what we saw earlier this week on Monday is the military security forces move in and break-up. This mass protests that had thousands of people in the capital, what we understand from doctors aligns position is that at least one hundred people were killed in this crackdown, and they've been more killings throughout the week. So this is the stage. This is where we stand on the real sense of fear. I'm shock in incident at the moment will so the army had joined the protesters in their in their common interest in ousting, Omar al-bashir who had been wanted for crimes against humanity. So once he was out of the picture. The army decided that it wanted to hold on to power for how long does the army have any intent at all to transition to democracy, which is what the protesters want what the army said when they took over is that would like to hold elections within a year within a few months, the purchases, while posted this they felt that this rush from the military wasn't attempts for the ministry to use up how once again, many of these generals or the generals that kept the former presidents in Powell, most of the politicians in office with politicians that kept the full moratium in power, so they want to time to. Break down these structures and they felt that in rushing towards elections. This was not going to happen. So the African Union suspended Sudan yesterday from membership because of this crisis. What's the significance of that usually when a coup takes place, the African Union immediately suspends the country? In question this time, they said, oh Cato, saying the right things talking about democracy. Let's give you time to hand over to a civilian authority. Now, the, the massacre happened here in Khartoum on Monday shook the African Union officials, they felt they needed to act that particular moments because not only was what the military dragging their feet in handing over to civilians, they will also now accused of grave crimes. So the African Union suspended sedan. Then also offering investigation into these killings. Just the nature of the crackdown on the warriors about the severity of the apiece is happening in Khartoum at the moment, Catherine, when a lot of Americans hero, Sudan. They think of the four region, and the horrific violence that happened in two thousand three are their fears that there might be even more widespread violence in the country now, because of because of this unrest caused by the military right now at this moment, much of the power is in the hands of the rapid support forces militia group. This is a militia group that was born out of the judge elite militia carried out so many of the crimes in Duff for. And right now in Khartoum when people look at the site of the crackdown here against protestors, you will find bent how tents you'll find scorch marks peop-. Who had been shot in the head on the also reports of women being rates follow people. Now, this reminds them of the crimes committed. India for by the judge a we'd now in the capital, by the rapid support forces who have origins in, in the judge we'd the opposition want this group to be disbanded provide. Now they have so much control of the security structures in the capitol outside in other parts of the country, that many people wonder, whether it will be possible to really disband this group right now as the BBC's Katherine be our hunger, who speaking to us from our doom Sudan, where the military's accused of killing more than one hundred pro democracy. Protesters Catherine thinking, thank you very much for having me. You're a now's the production of NPR and WVU are in association with the BBC World Service. I'm Lisa Mullins. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This is here now.

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The Beyond

Moonrise

57:41 min | 2 years ago

The Beyond

"The Moon Rise podcast is sponsored by Lighthouse from the Moon to Mars Lighthouse is proud to support NASA and the space industry with the right tools technology science and innovation they need for their most critical missions learn more at lighthouse dot com slash space mm-hmm President John F Kennedy's assassination in November nineteen sixty three cut short his life and his presidency the program in jeopardy but what if the tragedy had the opposite effect what if it was death in fact not his life strong enough to express our determination to continue the forward thrust board mccurdy let's take a minute and just imagine what might have happened to the Apollo program had the president lived hearts down this avenue of sadness bring President John F. Kennedy Margaret Hero Lion State under the Great Dome of the the and our history has been different when it comes to the Apollo program it would be easy to imagine that Kennedy's death but that's an alternate reality will never know President John Kennedy was assassinated on November twenty second nineteen sixty one that over the past fifteen years has left us with the question what is what if he hadn't died how would our country three and the torch passed to Vice President Lyndon Johnson to figure out what came next for the country and for the moon shop it was a shocking terrifying and grief filled moment for the country one that still carries deep emotions the station or something where we just forget it but he would have abandoned his own objective after all Kennedy was looking for no words are sad enough to express our sense of no words are ways to get out of the ambitious commitment he had made to reach the moon within the decade would've been so easy for him to say maybe sixty four that we that we thought we did in nineteen sixty one and we can turn the clock off or turn o'clock backload even if it takes another five years that's okay the one thousand nine hundred sixty five where The American program is making good progress this is space historian Roger that made the moon landing destiny if Kennedy had not been assassinated we would not have landed on the moon in nineteen sixty nine this is space policy expert how Alana's it would be easy for Kennedy say you know the crisis passed we don't have to accomplish this on the aggressive schedule he wouldn't kill what program but but he but he might have turned the clock off and doing that would have changed the dynamics pretty substantial colleague waves over the hush hush broken only by a stifle saw a murmured prayer a whole people is lifted up incomes and noble in America that he began the dream of conquering the vastness of space the dream of partnership of cost lighten him at the Washington Post and this is I don't know how it would have led sold the cooperative venture that got their thirty years later or like the International Space Echo the president of the United States spectacular accomplished Mondays hopes and fears and lives nodded together and beautiful tangle my Guinea story change at one thread a joint venture wasn't webs preference and it wasn't Johnson's either so what would it take for the US alone the whole thing would be different Johnson knew all the reasons why Kennedy had pitched the idea at the United Nations of turning and not just President Kennedy's death the story of getting to the Moon is the story of so many people's actions and decisions facination he asked NASA Administrator Jim Webb over the phone what he thought about it said to ask your help to ask your strength to ask your prayer add to slip the lunar landing out of this decade but this is a subject we need to talk with considerable mailing step it up a year later well I think rounded John F Kennedy's legacy to space and to honor his memory and the future of the work that he started I have today million with two hundred million put in reserve for manned spaceflight now this is going to present a real serious problem unless you're prepared Then on Thanksgiving itself Mark Fellow American he needed televised announcement from the Oval Office to the American public I come before you oh into a joint project with the Soviets but Johnson wasn't sure he should continue down that path in the week after the DEF changed the story we don't know how exactly it would be impossible to know that but it did full support behind it now was the moment the next day on the eve of Thanksgiving Lyndon Johnson Address Congress determined that station number one of the Atlantic missile range and the NASA Launch Operations Center in Florida shall hereafter be known as the has vice president he had persuaded Kennedy to commit to the Apollo program now as president himself he wants more saw in typically this is Margaret Way to camp up the national air and Space Museum and in many ways after Kennedy's assassination Johnson uses the memory of coming up Sarah Agreement well you you in Kushtia might be able to come closer together on this and many other maps that sounded Johnson was thinking he knew that if ever the congress and the American public could be convinced to poor there on when anybody threatened his budget you mean to tell me you want to end the dying wish of our slain president and you know usually got people back sooner is on a much as opportunity to enshrine space exploration into policy together Johnson and NASA cast the Apollo Program over the past several years Johnson had become attached to space policy he had learned to appreciate its intrinsic in honor of him Lyndon Johnson had been a long advocate for spaceflight for human spaceflights Oh let him play Russia ahead of the US one score in the race for the moon may be one of the things if you approached it secretly and without to much fanfare in the open that you might possibly have some kind of a blur the main goal and our budget next year you know pretty well what they go down to you They gave me a richly five billion six hundred John F. Kennedy space and two months later when Johnson submitted a budget to Congress he sealed that legacy through he assassinated president as a political tool to keep the momentum going to keep the funding going and to fulfill the vision of Kennedy's promise in a way that Johnson had perhaps always been more dedicated to than Kennedy had as Senate Majority Leader with his sputnik hearings Johnson had driven the founding of NASA as Kennedy's great dying wish and Jim Webb who guided NASA through this period he would pull it like this was to bring them technology when you put a lot of money into NASA centers most of which there's some things we can do that won't hurt too much in your overall budget but which will make it look better we got to we've got to get one that's fairly reasonable commemorates but what he had also learned was that space was an excellent political tool for all sorts of things particularly logical and scientific center and changes the nature of of Northern Alabama the one in Houston was originally ending he asked Congress to increase what it was giving to NASA that way the late president's Apollo program could charge forward method for doing this and Johnson's reasoning was amazing he was a progressive southerner who came out of the plant these centers in Houston actually clearly city Huntsville Alabama and other places around the south is a way of bringing engine and we get close today got to go up there so I'll be talking to you bet thanks I call me if there's anything at all of any kind I can do personal fish called the manned spacecraft center today we know it as the Johnson Space Center it was established in one thousand nine hundred sixty one shortly were actually certainly the human spaceflight ones were located in the south and in some cases depressed areas of the deep south you can you can to modernize the south take it out of the early eighteen hundreds and put it in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies and the space race was a principal after Kennedy announced the Moon Mission and its location was very much the result of Johnson's efforts Johnson wanted to put that in the south no question about roaring yeah I think it's an easy step to say that he viewed NASA and especially assassination but now that he was president himself Johnson was committed to keeping these engines of economic and social renewal needed to direct NASA funds to Purdue University to help out House Minority leader Charles Hallak who represented Indiana creating a new progressive southern society Johnson had helped to steer the establishment of the space centers before Kennedy's nine hundred thousand in Madison one hundred thousand Minnesota but I'm advertise it and Bella and talk about it while we're trying to get some little something reprogram transform the area through that investment and it did that in lots of places Huntsville Alabama was a sleepy little cotton town for the thing that was always highest up on his agenda the reality was Johnson was trying to transform the south here's came out of Texas during the Great Depression and Johnson was absolutely convinced that the way to solve the civil rights problem and the agrarian backwardness of the south you can hear in the White House call records that this happened over and over again the result was that Johnson got members of Congress on nears who would think scientifically of Anti Bellum Louis into the south and he thought that would be the motor engine for the Apollo Program as a part of his great society effort I mean he he came into office with a very progressive another even longer term effect it spread aerospace and engineering programs across American universities Dan and he wanted to go to Texas because he'd been senator from Texas and so he would go around like Johnny appleseed and both sides of the aisle to him favors and to consistently vote in support of increasing nastase funding it also oreo friend friend Darryl Fan I do anything in the world you tell me to do I I I in another call Johnson told web that he let's leave the United States right here for the time being and spin over to the Soviet until the NASA center stood up there in one thousand nine sixty and with with Apollo money flowing into the city is sort of transforms it into a technical four hundred thousand people working across the United States on the Apollo program many of them in the south and in Nineteen fifty-nine Coralee of them pulled off something even more spectacular though strangely far fewer in Minnesota and Wisconsin can you can you find one hundred thousand dollars some reason to suit up Minnesota and Wisconsin or how we to the late nineteen fifties the chief Soviet rocket designer Sergei Korolyov had pulled off sputnik one and sputnik two and he was majorly in the good graces of Soviet leader in Akita Khruschev so the first years from fifty seven these projects couldn't grind to a halt now certainly not while Johnson was president I prob- ever to hit the moon or to hit any celestial body for that matter the probe didn't have any humans onboard but it union in entirely different story had been playing out there while the Apollo program was getting up and running let's rewind for a moment Oy in nineteen sixty four sixty five to six timeframe power very much plays in there were bowl today have heard of this achievement than sputnik what he did was he launched Luna Luna was the first office what turned anytime shed one o'clock one o'clock right now Jim yes it this is it this this boy played with me twenty five years he's against domestic agenda and so his you know his war on poverty his efforts to sort of remakes pulled off and especially when you consider this as nineteen fifty-nine two years before Kennedy was even thinking of announcing a moon the sickle of the Soviet Flag Sputnik Luna these were all great publicity for the Soviet Union unum meted all the way to the moon and crashed directly into it it was this amazing technical feat that coral yet and they were incredible accomplishments in their own right but Khrushchev's military leaders we're getting annoyed these spaces he's not satisfied and he comes back to me then I'm Gonna I'm GonNa be talking to you again okay thank you Sarah will now when the probe hit the moon it's scattered penance almost like coins on the crater his problem is and how he works let's talk with him and see if he and I can't work somebody'll come back to you and and tell you he's pleased with all right now when you do it dance were coming at the expense of actual military missile development and at some point they said the United States was going to realize that I need to do anything I can for Charlie Halley isn't there something you can do have about let me sit down with him and get a full picture of what Khrushchev the really needed Sergei Korolyov whose primary job was supposed to be to design weapons they really needed him to turn his attention surface of the moon and on the penance was the launch date of Luna on one side and on the other side was the hammer and the Soviet Union is going to end up looking weak and foolish for just doing these stunts and so these military leaders started telling by the United States even before it launched they wanted a missile that was protected underground this old kind of like the Americans were developing worked in particular the higher ups in the military one eight Korolyov working on a type of missile back couldn't be attacked everywhere across the country here he is telling web over the phone to allocate NASA money to engineering programs into fifty eight coral to Iran Khrushchev thinks great this is NASA historian Bill Barry and suddenly I really didn't know that was possible in which case maybe he was getting too distracted by these space projects the fact is either way good when he wants to sit down have lunch Jim Webb telling what you'll problem is to do choosed Ituri it didn't make him look good that point Khrushchev loses their faith in Korla realizes that coral has objected have Brezhnev had been this champion and protector of coral you have space work Khruschev decided he would no longer be around to shield Korolyov he didn't trust him anymore he didn't trust coral Yelm even though this was a man who had been put through hell by the government just when he has to be against us in his party but but he he really worked with when he can so let's help him I do everything I can and I hope when he comes back to you he'll tell you that I've uh and was still dedicating his life to this grueling rocketry work Khrushchev I punished him by transferring his boss Leonard Brushes then Khrushchev started giving more power and more resources to other Soviet designers in this effort to crack the crucial is being respected around the world and he were afraid of the Soviet Union and so they like to attack it that makes him happy good solves the security problem unle Khruschev still found himself calling on Korolyov's talents each time he wanted to show up the United States Korolyov while we're doing that later on the year get them off Jalan Office hundred seventy million two hundred thousand ninety North Carolina wife's funds and put part hoppy is translated copy of aviation week and space technology with an article about the Minuteman missile which is going to be put in silos by the United States would be given isolated space assignments beat the Americans to launching a human into space beat the Americans to floating outside a capsule but there was I've no one who was quite as able to pull off some spectacular space accomplishment when suddenly the country needed it so I don't match up with his own Khruschev cared about space in so far as he loved the publicity that a good space accomplishment would get him here and there and why don't we just put missiles in silos underground underground impossible can't be done eight like an internal rivalry that would not Korolyov down to size and yet the thing was there was no one quite late coral yet doc he also sent the first woman to space in June nineteen sixty three Valentina Tereshkova this wholesome part of some big plan the time female pilots were in the US news for meeting with Lyndon Johnson and testifying on Capitol Hill about how unfair it was that mm-hmm either corollary of knew that it was possible and he was trying to dupe Khruschev so that he wouldn't have to do it or Corley Dan to integrate female cosmonauts into the Russian space program it was this very specific job at the United States to his real job slaving away at missiles the Russian surprise with another I in the person of Aleksei Leonov who they say became the first man to walk around Ooh Man's May scrap into orbit within hours of each other Korolyov would be put under intense pressure to pull off some space trick and then he would have to get back saying looks like communism can do it a similar one thing happens when the US is about and they kept stressing this to the Soviet premier so serpents with Korolev at some meeting when and where this happened but Johnson also discovered that he could use NASA as a tool to gain political leverage over members of Congress from if those conditions in space so the Soviets decide they're going to orchestrate Tereshkova flight really just as a way of you don't worry about the missile I gave you is the best thing got and don't you know this is this is just not simply not feasible at which point Khrushchev reaches into his coat pocket and pulls out his and you meets with a why don't we build a safer missile make my my military guys happier and it'd be more effective against United States never mind that he'd basically been given no runway no support had no time to work toward that pretty big goal free space project threatened to be his final one unless he could pull it off at the last minute and the thing was things have been great it didn't quite get his way anymore though after that meeting Khrushchev started to disempower Korolyov didn't space Russia has moved ahead of the US once more in the race for the Moon Corley I've had orchestrated the first spacewalk would each time he would do the impossible and so his team brilliantly find a way to take to say one the guy into space yeah okay that burbs approved thank you you go do that and then bill okay we need something else talk up another victory in the space race as they back to ballistic missiles military leaders didn't like him because they thought he was a dreamer about the space really needed was for him to do his duty and build a missile that and basically says the Apollo program the Landon a moon is a legacy that we're going to fulfil from our late president it becomes really clear that the United States is really always newly independent countries so US beating him to the moon suddenly becomes really critical they realized not only as a threat that was made a couple of years dr but he didn't care about space the way that Corley of did I think Corlett had great idea but what he wanted to do I mean he wanted to follow the dream and pins had started to think wait maybe were far enough ahead that this isn't really a race anymore and we can start taking it easy we're going to beat us to the moon and we need to do something the Soviets had pulled off a lot of space firsts but the US was actually much farther Khruschev needed Korolyov to spearhead the Soviet moon landing program because Korolyov was the country's best hope for winning the space race to launch multiple people into space for the first time coral yeah but was suddenly told beat the Americans to that ahead in the Moon Race Gemini Program Count Story Conclusion giving the United States virtually every record manned spaceflight many American it's about going to the moon by spring nineteen sixty four and that's when it hit Khruschev Soviets realize if the United States goes on land on the moon before we do Mayo military pilots and the response we're getting from the American government was it's just not possible you know women's bodies can't take shove had no option but to put Sergei Korolyov back in charge well not in charge exactly capsule and they find a way to stuff when people into it with the parachutes out and ejection seats and and the fitness they couldn't apply to be astronauts of no legitimate reasons there's no reason so why why we haven't used women astronauts and I still passed the same tests that the the all this propaganda benefit that we've had from this which is really critical to the legitimacy of the Soviet Union internally but also externally with all the allies that they've been building in the sixties go but now there's a president there who's dedicated to make it happen and we need to do something about it in an August the nineteen sixty four the Soviet leadership finally makes of the city this but Khruschev still didn't trust him he made it clear that Karolyi I've had no safety net one step out of line sort of time but by the end of nineteen sixty three Kennedy was assassinated and something changed Johnson comes in what about entering the memories so numerous didn't begin may nineteen sixty one president Kennedy what Congress it began in August nineteen sixty four when associate say holy mackerel the same one that von Braun had which was you know we're going to build space stations we're learning operating in orbit goes moon and then at the Mars and it's weird everything's out of sync we think the movie starts sixty one it doesn't start until sixty four over sixty four and she was starting to heat up Tree Oh long term program he was allowed to work on the the policy in the Soviet Union for space but time was one off things can you the sound of the level drums sweeps and he would beat off the job Khruschev even put another designer in charge of a competing program would send a crew of cosmonauts around the moon but he was doing was making Corley of not only proved that he could beat the can see the way to the moon he was juggling numerous before had been crashing against him he was finally empowered to truly lead the Soviet space program breath but before their capsule could even return Khruschev was gone out he was removed by the Party thirty five thousand pounds of mission critical supplies each year to keep the International Space Station fully operational lights delivers the it engineering and him and he incorporated some of these internal rival projects into a more cohesive long range vision for the news retirement and the name Leonid Brezhnev has a new leader of the party in this tangled twisting story the News Oughta get the Soviet Union to the moon by the beginning in sixty six it looks like they have a path the United States Ryan to advance today's most important in nineteen sixty four not long after these dueling moon programs it in motion in the Soviet Union something very dramatic happened ratio Russian announcement said he resigned Soviet leader Nikita Khruschev was the mooners podcast is sponsored enough to carry humans to the Moon in the meantime he also needed to figure out how to get a module to touchdown softly Hi Lighthouse deep-space Calling and lighthouses helping the Space Industry's innovators answer the call for modernizing Nassar's enterprise it to processing over checks throughout nineteen sixty four nineteen sixty five he was hard at work designing the Soyuz which was a new spacecraft that would be big enough and advanced with Brezhnev in charge of the Soviet Union Korolyov now found himself lifted by the tides of politics that neared the moon's surface and what if you couldn't even land on the moon surface what if it wasn't solid like Earth's to some extent on the lunar surface the Americans were working on this to how could they get a module to slow down to break as arisen a man who called and his way to the top Khrushchev was last heard from in public when he spoke over the radio with three Russian cosmonauts who were orbiting Earth mark he had published a novel in nineteen sixty one called a fall of moon dust it was very popular S. so Korolyov was working on this probe that could test a soft landing on the moon and that could survey that condition and in it a spaceship that was carrying wealthy tourists visiting the moon sank into a deep sea of dust on the lunar surface look really good until the Khrushchev so when bristow comes back in suddenly Carlos favored rises again that was a fear planted in both the US and the Soviet engineers minds by a popular British science fiction writer at the time Arthur C use Soviet leader who came to power was Leonard Brezhnev Russian F is known among Western diplomats as read in the gray flannel suit this is doesn't succeed as quickly as they might have problems it's slowed down a glimmer at the end of the tunnel quietly and ns the whole solar system now felt within reach winter of nineteen sixty five the man who was Sergei Korolyov's boss the one who has transferred when Khruschev in Korea had their falling out or worse era has come all of Korolyov's projects were charging forward normally he was working around the clock but he started to disappear every so often to a hospital in Moscow on Gronkowski street it was known as the Little Kremlin since it was a hospital that only rush is there and the American space program was working on something similar Korolyov was also working on probes that he could send to be contended of friends fiftieth birthday dinner at a quaint little restaurant in Moscow they were laughing so hard that night that they cried snows no limits on January fourth Korolyov racked up some work in his office then he said it quick goodbye to some of his L. steady the red say ill health prompted Koos jobs to step down observers say his abortive feud with Red China that broke apart the front of Monolithic Communism was the real and there is no definitive account but one of coral yes deputies whose name was Boris Chair talk he wrote a memoir years later in the design bureau while others were enjoying the short holiday break article that he wrote about the future of space for says most important people could use Korolyov was definitely in pain but he would have just worked through it if not for the fact that like he had a benign polyp in his colon and that he should have surgery to remove it in the new year shortly before Christmas he and his wife got into the hospital and he stayed there a week for examinations he turned fifty nine bear in the hospital and then ns leaders were increasingly intent on protecting his health and they forced him to see the doctor leaders were concerned because he's the golden goose he celebrated New Year's Eve a week later then choral you have spent the first couple of days in January working alone ed goodbye actually said to them well carry-on then he walked out the door the next day he the Minister of Health had to call in other surgeons to help him because one thing after another started going wrong and he was ill prepared phone to Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev Korolyov's wife was in the waiting room and she got the news first hand and put under house arrest wants Jeod Chris Jeff wildly were left in the dark as just what went on when the central committee met to see men the operation was supposed to be really quick but it ended up lasting more than four hours during that time rocket designer was dead chew airy for Korolyov which finally revealed his identity his existence the United States Brezhnev decided to authorize the publication of an OB opposite approach it had guarded the details of its engineers particularly Sergei Korolyov like they were a deep state see she's lane is eggs for them and so they wanna make sure he's okay he made some doctors visits in December nineteen sixty five and he was told that it looked she called his colleagues on the rocket design team the only friends coral yet really had the Soviets chief crit in theory it was a way of protecting him from being targeted by the Americans but in practice it had also been away heard that has about as much detail as you could hope for according to him they found a large tumor inside Korolyov's it was a complete tragedy curly of hemorrhaged and his heart stopped pumping steadfastly pursued his goal to fulfill the dream of spaceflight despite years of unjust persecution lead out right there on the operating table and died the hospital and relieved the news over the WTI is who knew that he was reluctantly taking a bit of time off for his operation coralie had on his fur hat and his coat when he the radio the government identified their chief rocket designer the mastermind of Sputnik Luna Yuri Gagarin's as leader he had the operation the insisted that the minister of health was a surgeon do the surgery because he's the Minister of Health Beats had long been broadcasting everything and everyone that was involved in its side of the space race but the Soviet Union had taken the the government deleted that specific line but it did keep the praise of him published his obituary and revealed to keep coral you have from gaining power and leverage within his own country his colleague Boris Chur talk was asked to write a draft a massive portrait was painted of Korolyov overnight and it was draped outside as the snow fell instate after their deaths Korolyov was getting the same treatment as the most well-known leaders of Russia light came out during that time in the product and news people under a pseudonym the last line of his piece was the human mind light. Valentina Tereshkova slate essentially every achievement the Soviets had made in space they finally and finally to the country and to the world I think the folks that were in charge at the time to Brezhnev hours to pay their respects to Korolyov and why this was a man whose name they had never even heard heard two days earlier in his memoirs Boris talk reflected on his sense of why all these people of the obituary and in his draft he included a line that said quote Korolyov remained an ardent Patriot and the next day there was a massive state funeral for coral you have his open casket was placed in thousands and thousands of Russians lined up in the bidder January cold of Moscow in the old footage you can see people's breaths it was breath I asked Bill Barry question we were once again talking in his office in NASA headquarters you'll remember he was the one who interest erection of which books and peepers I should read to learn more about him so why is it that you have a photo of him on your desk take a huge huge blow this is the genius behind the whole program is no longer there that kind of cold they were out there filling the streets crowds poured through the room full of read and it was completely willing to roll the dice on achieving his objectives the huge risk taker I think to honor his colleague and friend he wrote quote a particle of truth had finally been revealed identified him as Sergei have rich coral yet a grand column to room in the House of unions this was the scene place wherever flat Amir Lenin and Joseph Stalin's bodies headlines them they had finally been told who deserved tribute for Human Civilizations Greatest Triumph one person can do if they stay focused and and apply best of their abilities to things and the history the obituary was published on Sunday January sixteenth nineteen sixty six and news of it when out over helped design had the first ever successful soft landing on the moon and shortly after that the probe that Korolyov had launched what I want to build rockets and maybe exports base and Sergei Korolev is to is the embodiment of what for Venus successfully hit that planet this was the first time any human made object had reached the surface on another plan uh toward the end of my time researching coral yes life and on the other side the date that Korolyov had sent back probe up and into the beyond and just in something about the look on his face like okay finally free and I got a chance to in that they needed to honor call for his contributions which were huge to Soviet history the advancement and seven union frequented he had a huge vision for where he could go when we're were the people he was leading could go sixty six scattered Soviet penance on one side of

president President John F Kennedy NASA Mars Lighthouse Valentina Tereshkova mccurdy John F nineteen fifty-nine two years one hundred thousand dollars thirty five thousand pounds twenty five years fifteen years twenty second thirty years five years four hours two months two days
"Macaca" (2006) w/ Peter Hamby

This Day In Esoteric Political History

27:23 min | Last month

"Macaca" (2006) w/ Peter Hamby

"This day in esoteric political history is brought to you by progressive. Have you tried the name your price tool yet. It works just the way it sounds. You tell progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and no show you coverage options that fit your budget. It's easy to start a quote and you'll be able to find a rate that works for you. It's just one of the many ways you can save with progressive get your quote today at progressive dot com and see why four out of five new auto customers recommend progressive progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. It's summer again. At least where i live. And that means basking in the hot sunny days and tossing and turning through the long hot nights. Enter brooklyn and crisp sheets that breathe to keep you cool man. You can say goodbye to sleepless summer nights. Give yourself the comfort refreshed. You deserve and get it for less at brooklyn go to brooklyn and dot com and use promo code radio topa to get twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's b. r. o. o. k. l. i n. n. dot com and enter promo code radio. Topa for twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's brooklyn dot com promo code radio. Tovia hello and welcome to this day in esoteric. Political history from radio topa. My name is jody advocate this day august tenth. Two thousand six. The incident actually happened on august eleventh. Two thousand six. George allen was on a campaign. Stop in drake's virginia near the kentucky border george. Allen was running for reelection as virginia senator. He had also been virginia's governor but today he stephan it because on this day in two thousand and six. He was caught on camera. What was he caught on camera doing peter hamby he was saying. Give big welcome to my friend macaca over here. Welcome to america. And the real world of virginia or something. Something like that. That is of course. The voice of peter hamby who we have on because he does such good george allen impersonation buddha's the george allen in the world but now peter hamby is political journalist host of good luck america at snapchat contributor to the new outlet puck news but also i think a great fit for this conversation because he is to my mind one of the best chroniclers of how new media and new technology has transformed politics and that in many ways is what the story is about an early viral moment. That truly changed an important election. So peter hamby. This is your formal intro. Thank you for doing this. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to geek out on this. Yes and also virginia native which we which we can get into as well nicole hammer and kelly card jackson are here is always hello. Nicki hello kelly hello jody. Hey there and a quick shot to our listener. Jacob barisan for suggesting that we do this or reminding us that we should do this. Thank you jacob. Thank you to our listeners. Who give us suggestions so peter. Let's talk about this a bit as a media moment I suppose one thing we should define is. There is a person by the name of s sedov. Who's very young just out of college. Maybe still in college and he is at this. George georgiana event in the capacity of what is known as a tracker. So what is what does he tracker. And how does it fit into this political moment. Yeah that's a great question because it really signals a pivot and campaign. politics trackers are pretty commonplace now and they might not. They might even be obsolete because they're just cameras everywhere all the time but In the two thousand six race trackers were pioneered by democratic campaigns who were increasingly at least among younger. More clever staffers using the internet and in video In a way that republican campaigns weren't yet and so s ours. Dr who was an undergrad. Uva fairfax was in south west virginia with george allen And i went back and looked at this. He had just been following tracking allen's campaign for like five or six days before. This macaca moment happened. Would basically he would stand in the back of a rally you know sometimes with the press corps sometimes when the press corps wasn't even there as i think was the case with this incident just recording on a mini. Dv camera everything candidate said. And then he would you know hustle to fed ex drive all the way back to campaign headquarters and drop off the video and do this every single day for the entire campaign and then in on behalf of the opponent jim on behalf of jim. Webb's campaign And then not became more commonplace in racism in the coming years and so this moment with Alan is he notices that. This guy has been showing up at all events and tracking him. And what is you know. You said it in the intro but sort of describe wh allen. It's funny. I went back and watched the macaca video still on youtube Barely has a million views But you know was the first big youtube moment in politics. And he's sort of standing there. You see him through As a sitar of slight grainy video and he starts out. He's in south west virginia now taken for granted as a republican stronghold is basically appalachia back then. Though in virginia democrats could be competitive down there so candidates. We're going to south west virginia. A lot and allen is talking to this crowd and says we're going to run this campaign on positive ideas that bring people around. And then he. Immediately pivots swivels out and waves finger around at the tracker and says we got this guy out here he points at him his name macaca or something and then he rambles on for fewer minutes. And then he's making the point that his opponent jim webb. Who's actually from virginia. Even though george allen grew up in california doesn't come to the real. America doesn't come to south west. Virginia where we have certain ideals and then he turns back to sr darth again and says so everyone give a big welcome to macaca out here. Welcome to the real america. Welcome to real virginia and then that's the clip and the web campaign basically clip that and ship it out in an email to political reporters a few days later and this becomes a huge story Darth is not white and this was Macaca was not a word that most people had heard but it was quickly Revealed be a uses a racial slur and so it it puts the issue of allen's racism or this racist comment at the center of the general election And it's not just that he said it but that there's tape of it and so that tape gets played again and again which helps to cement this moment and this image in the minds of voters. It was really interesting. I was working at cnn. At the time. I was working on a show as a producer on a segment about the internet and politics. Which is which is really treated as a funny little trinket on the side at the time by cnn and establishment politics the internet. I mean not central to the way it's It matters in politics. Now and that segment i worked on got killed all the time by producers. Because they're like we don't have time for this. It's just the internet but then because this video is perfect for cables perfect for washington cable specifically And there was a debate inside cnn. That i remember. I was junior junior at the time. But you know we had pretty rigorous like standards and practices and legal department and it was like. Can we verify this. Video is real. We don't even know because it was youtube and this was a year after youtube was invented and the the brass and the older folks at cnn just didn't get like this thing even though it obviously look credible and so once it got approved it was looped over and over and over and over again and then yeah macaca. It was interesting to the word itself. Wasn't like common place as a racial slur. And i remember being at cnn and people. Were googling it then know to do and like we kind of waited till the washington post wrote their story the next day's like use their definition of it but it just sounded like something like rich white guy would say in private at a cocktail party writer. My move you like. You're racist on like swilling champagne or something at a party. This that's what it sounded like. And then what you just said nicole that race the web allen race that was a democratic year in the end but it started out web was an underdog he was trailing by eight nine. Ten twelve points in the polls virginia wasn't yet what it is now. It's basically a blue purple to blue state. It was still back and forth between republicans and democrats and mostly republican but then that video just started to call attention to this race and his people peel back more layers about george allen all of these other sort of racists things came up he worked confederate flag pin and his high school yearbook. When he was governor of virginia a few years earlier he replaced the only black board member at uva with a white board member. He passed like a confederate heritage proclamation. And so you know if you're a female suburban voter in northern virginia. You're like wait this guy. And then the race got much closer after that video went viral and the way videos went viral back. Then i think it's interesting to me how How everything got to sort of hyper racialist. But not only that. How he he said it twice. You know. he doesn't as a throw away and it's it's not clear if he's like referring to him as a name or as a name for name like it's just not clear. There's just a lot of ambiguity about that. So i mean but i also think that given the moment in which he says it or sort of those it out there. If this had happened in any other moment would this have been so controversial I'm not sure. I mean. I don't in some ways i say maybe it gets tucked under the rug or maybe it gets exploded and he gets cancelled in. That's that's like the whole thing that happens. The first of all the other angles here is that george. Allen grew up the son of a rich. Nfl coach it went to high school in southern california in venice like and was at this rally in south west virginia telling someone who was born in virginia even though he was of indian descent. His parents were immigrants. But he grew up in fairfax went to public schools in virginia went to uva. And this guy is on stage and south west. Virginia pretending to be you know just one of the folks like pointing at this actual person from the commonwealth So there's that and then yeah. I tend to think that this wouldn't be as big a deal today. I mean one. The internet angle to it made it new and interesting in different for the press in two know there was just like more of a know. Pre trump there was there more boundaries and politics and morning like norms. I hate that word but today you know. Republican members republican members of congress. Say things like that all the time. Republican activists are on camera saying things like that all the and even if they do rise to level controversial There have always been twenty four hour news cycles. But this just you know goes into the ether. After a few days back then local media was more robust so you had reporters following these people around in states during campaigns and asking follow up questions and follow up questions and dig up new angles. You know there are more You know i hate to say this more enterprising national journalists who would back then spend the time going to you know. Look into allen's background and now we live more in like journalism take culture where people aren't really like leaving their desks and following these candidates around and asking questions and digging into their past. And so yeah i think there. It was just harder for allen to overcome this on especially because there were more scandals that came out later in in the race that helped drag him down. And just we've seen just in recent years. People willfully mispronounced harris's name. I mean you know. This kind of stuff is happening politicians. There are still playing with this. I would say intentionally. But winking lii in the way that i think alan alan was the difference though and i think is so fascinating. Is you know that you could potentially make the case that alan didn't really know what he was stepping into that. This whole world of trackers was new this hole in his head. He may be still thought. Oh this is a small event. Where i can be a little free a little freer and i can let my inner racist come out a little bit and then you know. He quickly learned the lesson. And i'm curious. Peter you know. What kind of lesson did this incident teach to other politicians and have they learned that lesson. Because i still find myself amazed. Politicians say anything at all under this. This idea that everyone in the world is going to hear this almost immediately but politicians seem to maybe have not learned that lesson. No and i do think one lesson candidates in politicians of learned is like. There's always a camera on you and you can ignore this cameras and clam up or to say nothing or give like a polite soundbite or you can lean the other direction. Just go all in and like matt. Gaetz or margie. Taylor green and just like lean into every cameron say like flagrant things all the time and get attention that way like there's a there's a perverse reward system in that in that way but yeah i mean i think you know allen. Learn his lesson in the sense that i need to not know. Be mindful of what i say on a stage. I think you're right. He was in like rural part of the state. At the time. There weren't a lot of there certainly wasn't like a local tv network down there and breaks covering it or thought it to be valuable But in in subsequent election cycles you know two thousand eight came along the next two years. I was out covering candidates in presidential primaries in south carolina in two thousand seven and all of the primary candidates this is before obama and mccain were the nominees and the press was flying all times all of these candidates in the primaries. Sometimes i was the only person at their events from cnn. Right and like i would. I would show up at the time with a like tripod or amano pod and put on my camera and put this little. Dvd tape in. And sometimes it'd be the only person at like mike huckabee event or fred thompson event or john edwards event. And if they didn't recognize me they they they like. Who are you like. It was already getting the bloodstream that these young sometimes unpaid like staffers or volunteers were like going around with these little cameras and just made them a little more cautious and there's just such a Like guard up now between campaign staffs political staffs and the press like they don't need reporters anymore in fact they are a nuisance and This has made them even more paranoid. I think that's really interesting to me. I think about you know like often times when you when you've got the hot bike and you think you're not on and then all the sudden you say you know whatever you think won't be heard That was kind of this moment but he does you know to his credit apologize I don't know how much that helps. Dr says you know He apologized to him. He took the blame for saying he realized how offensive it was when it came off And i think now especially in a culture where apologies so aren't really apologies. You know people just like. I'm very sorry to have offended. You know like it's not. It's not necessarily sincere but he does apologize. Yeah he so. Allen went on after leading this race to lose by nine thousand votes to jim webb. Who was himself a little bit strange as a as a personality on and that that race you know they're cited control of the senate like if if web hadn't won that race republicans would have moved into the next two years Still in control the senate and he swung it and like it it put up put a punctuation mark on a big midterm wave for democrats heading into two thousand eight and you know the the election that lifted up rock obama and then allen tries to run for senate in two thousand twelve when web says. I'm only going to be a one term. He retires and alan does like an apology tour. And like it's part of his bio and his brand at this point that he's the macaca guy like he gets asked about an every interview. He apologizes for it. And there's just not really it doesn't it doesn't do anything. It just reminds people that he's the macaca guy like he's old news. He's he's old governor. He's our old senator. It was like really hard for him to make a comeback and then what would be different. Today i feel like is not that he would own the like that. He was the macaca guy necessarily but he would just start to attack the media for asking these questions he would. He would say elites are like trying to cancel me you know. That's the strategy that works in republican politics now. Not the sort of conventional. You know apology tour. I've learned i've studied You know about our nation's troubled history that that doesn't happen. One of the little wrinkle. Which i find fascinating just as you're describing. The impact of this moment is this was a look back at the calendar. Right it's august eleventh. This was literally day. One of the general election The primary had been the deep before. Or maybe even that exact same day So like it's just remarkable that the defining event happens on like our two primary and and saddam was also it was. I think day three of his job like everyone is just like stepping in it right off the bat but i've just fascinated that this happened so early and then that that race was a perfect storm for democrats to because remember the biggest issue at the time before the financial collapse was the iraq war. Right it was still being litigated. Things were going off the rails in iraq. It was basically this of war and then democrats activists especially on the internet around the time fetish. Is this idea of you. Know ideology wasn't that important. It was like biography. An image and these former republicans in these former military guys. Run it. Tough guys running as democrats in the bush era was like everything that the quote unquote net roots on. The internet wanted right and like web that he wear the boots. You wear the combat boots like. There's a famous picture of him on election day on the front page washington post with chuck. Schumer the head of the sec. And he's like holding up his combat boots on like when they called the race finally like a week after election day because it was so close anyway well as an underdog in his primary To this like establishment lobbyists type guy named harris miller. He kicked his ass in the primary. Because there's so many activists who just love jim. Webb's brand and they're like he can beat republicans in this moment and then he steps out the primary. Jody and the exactly what you say happens. It's just a reminder. That allen was running at the confluence of so much political change like virginia's changing from a red state to a blue state. The tolerance for racism in politics had taken a real real turn in just a decade before that right because as governor he was able to embrace the confederacy and confederate heritage and all those ideas and that becomes a problem for him and then the media change on top of that like it's just like everything was shifting and he was on the wrong side of every single one of those shifts. You're exactly right in a call it so so interesting. That's why i love this race. It just like there's so many different threads to poll the politics media the internet racism our political culture and one other thing i was reminded of two was that jason miller of donald trump. Communications director fame was allen's communications director or press secretary is one of the two like he was a he was basically a media strategist in republican politics in a more normal time. And he worked for allan and was going to work on allen's presidential campaign almost building a presidential campaign he was going to pivot from getting reelected in the senate running for president in two thousand eight and he was among like dc insider types like definitely a frontline. He was going to raise so much money. He was sort of a sort of a hybrid. Like bush ideolog but like from the south like he was he was an interesting candidate for political junkies and then he lost And it blew up his presidential ambitions. He came out a few months later. And said i will not run for president. Even though was already toast. Jason miller then moved to south carolina and started working for mark. Sanford who is also often who you know Also saw his career imploded to show you how all of these things are so fragile. Like at any moment you can be on top and then boop well yeah they're fragile but i think it's also don't have jason miller's communicates seems to be the big lesson here. Yeah so. I'll we wrap up. Can we take a moment to just sing. The praises of sa at arth who a is like poor kid like summer gig just like i probably paying him. I don't know if they're paying him at all but like you know he's out there. He's like driving around play very hot. You know he's Shipping off these tapes. But you know he in the wake of this. I think shows real strength in. Grace i keep hens an op-ed it is not a like you know. Seize the moment. But he uses the he doesn't like it doesn't like pick a fight but he uses the moment to pen and op ed and sort of point out like there's some deep racism in this state. This is this is a serious issue. This is revealed some things about an important race And moreover you know he kinda just like also puts his head down not sensationalized and now i think he's just kind of i think he's a lawyer. He just lives in northern virginia. You know he's just kind of like we've done with his life not to sound like a curmudgeon here but i do think you know today if a young person politics got that kind of attention very quickly you know not all of them not everyone but they would love the clout. They would love the followers they would try to spin it into. You know a career you know and restraint is something that's lost in our internet culture and and and the ability to like accept an apology sometimes or or or even politics like it's addictive like you can get you know if you're working on campaigns eric political media you know you're always seeking that next like adrenaline rush from breaking story or being on a winning race and you know for someone to do it for campaign cycle and just like okay cool. I'm done i want to go. Do something else is kind of cool. The other interesting thing is that he was at uva. And larry sabato who we all know is like a pundit guy in the political press is has a hard to get into political science class at uva and he still does and to get in. You have to write an essay and i remember sr sitar like in his junior senior year. His application for larry sabato class just said i am macaca that was and because it was obviously so famous. In virginia politics he got into the class and salvato later said he was just like one of his favorite students. He was just very smart thoughtful. Awful guy but that was that was his three word essay. Macaca if you're ever going to use your moment of theme that's right to get into work for you. Forget instagram forget. I'm getting in this class. Police i for one two professors here love love. All right well that brings us to the end of the episode. This has been really fascinating. I'm peter thank you so much for doing this. You host the show on snapchat and you have puck news. I also give a shout out to this book. A booker was like an e book that twitter. Yeah that was a. I did a fellowship at the short scene center. Harvard is basically a a study. Should have been a book because it's so long about how twitter sort of ruined or disrupted political journalism. But it's called did twitter. Kill the boys on the bus and it is is actually really great and still worth visiting so. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you guys nicole hammer. Thanks he was always thinks. Charity and kelly carta jackson. Thanks to you my pleasure. This day in esoteric political history is a proud member of radio topiary from p. r. x. A network of independent listener supported artists owned. Podcasts are researcher and producer. Is jacob feldman. Our producer is brittany brown. You can get in touch with us with any questions or comments or ideas for the show. Mls us this day pod at g mail dot com or you can find a form at this day. Pod dot com. My name is jody avirgan. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you soon fest villa here over here with the yellow shirt macaca or whatever his name is he's mma five hundred these following us around everywhere and it's just great. We're going to places all longer. Virginia radio x.

peter hamby virginia south west virginia george allen allen macaca cnn brooklyn youtube nicole hammer america snapchat jody Nicki hello kelly Jacob barisan George georgiana Uva fairfax Macaca
Archives : Fun Radio de 1997  aujourd'hui [avec Dario, srie sur l'histoire de Fun Radio (P4)]

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30:47 min | 1 year ago

Archives : Fun Radio de 1997 aujourd'hui [avec Dario, srie sur l'histoire de Fun Radio (P4)]

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