3 Episode results for "Jim Melwert"
#924: Stuck In China's Panopticon
"'em as this is probably not you're first studio interviewing her life is it or is it the first one would this elaborate quip kind of kid is a geneticist at yale andy in some circles circles he's a pretty big deal for example he was one of the first scientists to persuade judges to accept dna evidence in american courtrooms but the wake ten got tangled up in the story we're gonna be talking about today has to do with a project that he's been working on for decades you're just trying to understand human genetic variation around the world idea is if you draw someone's blood get their dna and then look for the right markers inside that dna you could probably figure out what region or ethnic group a person comes from it's kind of like twentythree in me but fifth year and three years can has been testing this idea this idea that certain markers in your dna show where you come from end to test that idea he you need a dna samples from people of all different ethnicities from all different parts of the world but in twenty ten there were still a big hole in the global genetic picture that he was trying to assemble a place where he didn't have a lot of genetic samples from yet and and that place which china there's like more than a billion people there i imagine there's a lot of genetic diversity that's worth might yes there is what ken says he didn't know what he couldn't know with how china would end end up using his research i mean did you have any concerns at the outset knock you out you see what can we later find out with that his collaboration with chinese scientists would end up helping advance that's one of the biggest most invasive surveillance projects anywhere on earth global could put in money under filtered and i'm also chang china is building a huge high tech systems for tracking targeting and cracking down on minority groups and they're developing much of that technology on their own but they're also relying on the work of american scientists and companies company today on the show or gonna tell the stories of two men each of them in very different ways got caught up in the scariest most dystopia in police states we've heard of in a very long time one of them a scientist other just the guy trying to have a summer vacation is there any part of you that feel sorry for tennis kid i absolutely do i mean the thing is he's extremely irresponsible and negligent for doing what he but at the same time everyone makes mistakes right in this message comes from npr sponsor each raid investing your money you shouldn't require moving mountains no matter how much or how little experience you have each raid makes investing simple along with great value they provide the tools and support you need to navigate the markets all to help your money work hard for you for more information visit each raid dot com slash npr each rate securities llc member sipc no matter what you've got planned you need a song of the summer this week on npr's pop culture happy hour we are rounding up experts from npr music we will play a ton of songs to lift your spirits and you might even find your next favorite artist that's npr's pop culture happy hour listen and subscribe now the part of china that we're gonna be talking about today is pretty closed off it's called saint john providence nearly half of the people there are we gore's a muslim minority and over the last several years the chinese communist party has been ramping up its persecution of the week ores journalists don't get real access dishing john they're often followed by government minders they only get to see what the government wants them to see so so today are guide into the police tape it's being built there is a man who saw firsthand what's happening because he lives it and is willing to talk to us about it but we're gonna take some steps to protect his identity he asked us to use a different name end the voice you're here it's a voice actor and voice actor who is reciting word for word from the interview with our source column is a grad student in the u s he's weak or and he grew up in shooting john and two summers ago he went on a trip home help them understand just how much everything there is changing the trips darted out like most of his summer break did on a long flight to china he watched a couple movies napped eight a pretty mediocre airplane hello meal and then when the plane landed a flight attendant approached him and she was like oh they're asking for you there might be something wrong with your visa and i was like i don't need a visa i'm a citizen of this country he's like i come home every summer and nothing like this has ever happened before and then she was like oh man i i don't know what's going on you probably should go and see them police officers take him off the plane they search in question him for four hours and then talent he's under arrest the charge disrupting the societal order and then i started laughing because i think yeah i i laugh hysterically because it sounded so these are to me like never in my wildest dreams did i imagine getting arrested had heard stories about we gore's being detained by the chinese government which had been cracking down on the group because they say we gore's pose a terrorism and threat but nowhere near that world he's just a grad student in the u s so he was thinking this whole time i'm just going home ditching john dizzy my family eats them good home cook leader food but this trip would turn out nothing like that the police bring all them to a hospital and they say he needs to undergo a quote health check they took me to a room to do ultrasound an ultrasound yeah aware of my belly of my oregon's i guess you're deli like as if you were a pregnant woman exactly yeah yeah didn't take him to a windowless room they started taking pictures of my face from from all kinds of different angles you mean they moved the cameras almost three hundred sixty degrees around your head to take yes you're had you're facing all different vantage points yes they did on and then after that they start telling me open my mouth and then taking pictures of that and then closed my mouth and taking pictures of that unlike reveal my teeth like kind of like smile and then taking pictures of that it's as if they're trying to like take pictures of my facial expressions at this point all in starts to realize the government is building a profile on me that is what they want all this data for did you ever feel like you could say no no that's that's not negotiable i felt like if i if i tried to resist it would only look bad on me and make me feel like a make make them think that i'm a criminal so i cooperated with everything did take his handprints they take his footprints they sit him down and record his boys they handed this this passage and we order and told me to read it in front of a very expensive looking mark finally they take two tubes of all in blood and then an officer blots a little piece of paper with his blood labeled with his name national eddie number and places the paper in a box as he lives please say my simple my blood sample into the box i could see easily hundreds of other samples because i concede people's names and their idea cards just like mine attached to that blood sample hundreds of other people's blood were in that box yes it's not just hundreds it's millions human rights groups say the chinese government is forcing every person inching john from the ages of twelve to sixty five to go through a health check and that the government has thrown more than a million these people into so called reeducation camps that is where all and ended up after this health check he was sent to a detention center and he spent his days watching propaganda videos chanting slogans about how great the chinese communist party was reciting rules against extremism and then one day the police tell all and you delete just like that the guard came to me and then he was like peculiar stuff and then i was like i don't have any stuff and then he was like come out they take him to his family's apartment and then for the first time in twenty eight days he's free any thinking i could finally do what i come back for every summer i could go play soccer with my buds i can walk around my hometown eat a bunch of some says those they're like we are dumplings but as he starts going about his life he starts he noticed it things really different as soon as i get out of the building i actually on notice cameras in the apartment complex which is weird because there wasn't cameras last year in over the next few days he realizes it's not just new cameras are everywhere there are also these new police stations like literally one on every block they call them convenience police stations convenience police station yeah the supposed to create convenience for the people they say you can charge of phone inside or a you can use the restroom inside but everyone knows that police stations there these signs on then that say be aware three evil forces and the three evil forces are terrorism extremism and separatism he says it was weird hughes noticing all this stuff the camera's the police stations a bunch of extra police but no one was talking about it like once he was over at his uncle's end one of his family members starts talking about robert on which at this point had pretty much been outlawed inching john and my uncle immediately stopped the conversation he was like no don't talk about this don't talk about anything that would get us into trouble because those vehicles outside with a giant antennas what do you think that that for listening to us they're listening to conversations that are happening happening and we would homes he says people were really talking about anything of substance because they didn't even know what they weren't supposed to be talking about it's still kind of felt like prison i felt like i no freedom even though i was technically free and then all and even began to doubt if he was technically free it starting just one day when he and his friends were just walking to the malta have lunch and i was entering the small at the entrance there's a security checkpoint he says these checkpoints or all over the place the kind of looks like a cross between an airport metal detector and a subway turnstile there's camera and a screen attached to else you could see see yourselves yeah being recorded yourself yeah yeah yeah absolutely his friend goes through first scans is idee walk through and then it's almonds turn as scan maybe immediately orange alert came up a bright bright orange light comes on ended a police officer calls him over and then they were like yeah yeah come in come into the station all said that all he rethinking ways this is it i'm going back into detention police officer says hey follow me to the station just sit down i just gotta ask you some questions and while he was filing that on his computer i asked him so is this a mistake core or what's going on and then he was like oh they just updated the system today you probably shouldn't go anywhere and then i was like what do you mean and then he was like you know every every public place has this machine and they would flag you each time and we don't wanna you know do this filing every time you come back to the station and you don't wanna come back either i assume so just stay home that means you're under house arrest basic that that's exactly what i was thinking she goes back home having no no idea really what his status is whether there have been some glitch in the system or if they actually had something on him or if he'd been permanently flagged as a security risk but then one day he with a friend who works for the government he says you wanna know what you're status is had this app on my phone i can look you up he pulled out his phone open this up and then i told my idea card number and then right after he press confirm my picture and a lot of different information showed up and he said denison orange warning on your idea cars and that's usually used for criminals and he was shocked he said you can't leave the city let alone china to go back to school so then when the end of the summer was approaching were you nervous that you would not be able to fly back to the uss absolutely what was that app and what is all this technology that's being used the track of them will find out more after the break support for npr comes from newman's own foundation working to nourish the common good by donating all profits from newman's own food products to charitable organizations that seek to make the world a better place more information is available at newman's own foundation dot org wedding video games could help you and your child bind inlet important skills and npr's life kit for parenting is taking on screen time one of the big things were working on right now the concept of resiliency in not quitting when something is hard sometimes he married to regain rear end game is a great with that checkout life giving you guidance screen time or subscribe to life kit all guys all of are episode and all in one place insieme john olen could see all the cameras he could see all the security checkpoints the police officers waiting on every block but we couldn't see what's the scale of the digital prison around him one person who's been trying to put together that bigger picture is sophie richardson is might move and my gear wherever they go so he's been trying to figure out as much as you can about the surveillance technology being used inching john she said china director at human rights watch this spring she and her team got their hands on the app that police inching john are using to track we gore's probably the same at all looking at and her team reverse engineered it and what we were able to show by unpacking the source code of this app that behavior ranging from suddenly socializing laugh with your neighbors bruce death suspicious talking to family members overseas going out the back door instead of the front or putting gas in somebody else's car all of these behaviors that are perfectly legal perfectly legal are now considered suspicious hand that information can and will be used against you and soap his team isn't just looking at this app they're looking at everything like for example that security checkpoint at all and went through at the mall it is way more advanced than he ever knew there's no gate recognition software a you know they'll always walk literally the way you walk that monitored correct identifies you correct wow and all of that is linked to a central database about who you are and all this other information value correct one other thing so he's been doing is she's been trying to attract americans who were helping china build these high tech social controls end quite frankly shame them so they'll stop doing it she's had some successes but it's meant digging through stacks of obscure documents try and understand complex science like there is this company based in massachusetts thermo fisher scientific they make these things called dna sequencers we actually found from looking at police tender documents that thermo fisher scientific pick had sold dna sequences to this junk public security bureau sylvie call them out and they said they would stop selling touching john her team also called out i fly tech which is this chinese company that's collaborating with mit i fly tech has applied a lot of voice recognition technology dishing john mit says they agreed to the collaboration the for the university came up with a whole new review process for elevated risk international projects but they're still collaborating operating with high tech by the way voice recognition technology is why were using a voice actor and remember how police made him breed out loud a page of week or taxed in front of a fancy microphone well they have his voice forever an engineer that npr told us even if we tried to distort his voice it could be reverse engineered now southern says there is one particular american who worked with the chinese police who stands out to her she remembers when she first got a tip about him i was sitting in the brussels airport word reheating that packet of information any help physically ill she was reading about a geneticist at you named kenneth kit the guy from the beginning of the show do you feel that you have done absolutely nothing wrong i've done nothing wrong here's ken story in short in twenty ten he got an invitation to travel to beijing from the chinese ministry of public security which is like the chinese police he says he collaborates with law enforcement all the time he does dna work so can fly china end meets one of the top scientists for the chinese police and she says hey i'm also interested in this dna ancestry marker stuff and also thanks to my job i have access to dna from all sorts of ethnicities from all over china so she said do you wanna work together kind of come vizier lab ken says shirt come on over to yale university end she spent a year inside that left a pretty productive severe is capped off with a paper the co author together in one the paper looks that is what differentiates the dna of certain ethnic groups including groups that the chinese government is targeting inching john like we gore's taj leaks kazakhstan caregivers we now know that this dna was most likely not collected conceptually again says the scientists working for the chinese police she claimed that all her dna samples including the weaker ones were gathered permission she says that the samples were collected were signed informed consent in you didn't question that on what basis would i questioned ten says he followed accepted practice and that there was no way he could have independently verified whether there was informed consent but a lot of people including sylvie richardson are outraged by his collaboration with the chinese police there also disturbed by the fact that can not only used data drawn from dna samples that the chinese police provided but then he also provided genetics samples from his own lab to the chinese police and they say he allowed data based on week score dna to be included in a global database that he runs out of you knowing what you know now about how the chinese government has treated leaders in an end now treats leaders do you still believe that every genetic genetic sample taken from a weaker that's referenced in your database or referenced in research that each one of those samples was definitely taking with informed consent do you do you really believe that it's impossible to believe that under quiver parade but on the other hand i have no way of knowing one way or the other but critics say that like collaborating with the chinese police he helped get china the tools to figure out whether someone is weak or which helps china advanced this system that tracks targets and oppresses the week course ken says look this collaboration this happened years ago before much of the world knew what was going on and sing john i can't know everything that's going happen in the future ken says he stopped collaborating with the chinese ministry of public security and that he is removing all that problematic weaker data from his big database have you asked scientists at the chinese ministry of public security just stopped using the genetic samples you provided them yes did they say they would stop i've got no reply eighty we asked all in about ten if kid and he said he had heard about him and even though there is no way that all looms blood sample was used by can own says he's still a victim of a system that can help advance as a human being i can relate to making a mistake or screwing up big time because everyone does once in a while but just thinking about it makes me really angry it's difficult for me to sympathize with him knowing the magnitude of his research and the potential damage his research could do to my people allen has good reason to be angry it's been two years but he's still replaying in his head the nightmare of that summer break inching john she waited out the rest of the summer counting down the days to his return flight flight back to be us trying to stay under the radar and then summer was nearing its end he went to the airport not knowing if his orange alert would mean he could never leave china when he got to be airport the police questioned him for so long did he missed to slight then they said come back tomorrow and try so we showed up the next day super early and they questioned him again but this time they did let him go to the gate i was still nervous sounds like i'm not out of the woods yet they can get me anytime they want what if they change their mind he says the four hours he waited to get on the plane where the longest of his life and when we finally boarded the plane i was still anxious because i knew that they could stop the plane as long as we were on the ground when we finally took off i had a huge sign of relief and i knew that did you know this this is it all is in the u s now but he sure the chinese government is still tracking him so he's being really careful and he says if authorities found out he was talking to journalists very bad things would happen to his family we asked him are you planning to go back next summer he said i don't think i'll ever go back to hey we have this new cool thing it's the planet money newsletter smart and comes out once a week you could find it at npr dot org slash planet money newsletter you have any story ideas and he burning questions about the world email at at planet money at npr dot work and if you like this show hit that share button send it to a friend today show was produced by the dream team darien woods and lies yogurt alex goldmark supervising producer and brian or set at it's show special thanks a daring beyeler who talked to me for hours about what's happening inching john anti mark monster he'll who has been following kind of kids work and shared when he found with human rights watch also thanks to jim melwert my long ryan thumbs down hoffman end of course are boys actor wieger abdulah yes that is actually his real name his parents were weak or and he grew up in australia and you're parents named you euchre they were very imaginative what else but i know chang an unexpected this is npr thanks so much
Mad Money w/Jim Cramer 08/14/19
"What kind of tech company does the world need today. One that applies smart technologies at scale with purpose and expertise not just for some but for all with a i- blockchain and quantum technology i._b._m. Is partnering with clients to develop smart scalable technologies that help businesses work better together. Let's expect more from technology. Let's put smart to work visit i._b._m. Dot com slash smart to learn more. My mission is simple to make you money. I'm here to level the playing field for all investors. There's always more work in summer and i promised to help you find mad. Money starts out. Hey i'm cramer. Welcome to mad money. Welcome to kramer of the people wanna make friends. I'm just trying to save you some money. My job is not just entertain but also to educate and teach you about taste today so call me at one hundred seventy three c._b._c. or tweet me at you kramer. How do you get your head around the daily today. Dow plunged another eight hundred points s and p's down two point nine three percent nasdaq even worse off three point zero two percent but it's all about the bizarre action or at least a symptom. Perhaps of the bond market and you gotta remember that the bomb market a lot larger than the stock market. Even though unemployment is at its lowest level level fifty years. Something disconcerting has happened with bonds earlier today. The benchmark ten year treasury had lower than the two year. That's a highly unusual setup. We haven't seen it since yes. The eve of the great recession of two thousand seven and we have memories the yield on the thirty year treasuries fallen to record lows again that is pure cursing and it is binding heels off a cliff. They're taking the stock market with them. Why it's all because of precedent seen the bears will tell you that anytime we see treasuries behaving like like this. A recession surely follows long term interest rates. Don't trop low short term rates. Lets people really worried about the future so even if things seemed fine and the economy now there's a wise put fear that they won't stay that way and things could get worse in the future. I think that could be misread of the current situation but i can no longer dismiss. These concerns given the pronounce moves in bonds that we saw monday in today as i've told you repeatedly i do not believe lever headed new recession anytime soon. A lot of people clearly disagree with me. Smart people and history is on their side not mine so tonight. I'm going to put on my doom and gloom. Investigation station had an offer some theories about what dr this action because it's too extreme to dismiss amok going to whistle past it. Keep him i'm. I'm going to give you some pure conjecture. I don't know any more than anyone else who obsessively keeps track of publicly available information but i do have my ear to the ground so to speak so i can tell you what i'm hearing all day today. People were talking my ear off about an elephant in the room then that each mention different elephant either. We have an overabundance abundance pachyderms where seventies doomsayers blowing things out of proportion. We're both let's go through the niggers. I there's a sense that our trade with china is starting to tank global commerce. All the amateur history buffs in the stock market are convinced that we're going to revisit the smoot hawley tariff when we put massive barriers to trade right as the great depression got rolling memories these bears think the trade war will be devastating in the bear co-ord- has grown dramatically traumatic. If that happens you wanna put your money in safe. Haven we treasuries and man or men. Are they ever doing that. They're buying treasuries hit fist of course if this theory is true and we reach some kind of deal with china everything has been getting hammered will come roaring back but that right now doesn't seem to be in the cars second are shirt tremendous rates. The one onset by the fed are way too high last year chief shape how raise rates repeatedly without putting much thought into the impact that they might have. We know that from his thoughtless comments in october they were very bad. This is why president trump just tweeted that the fed is coolest. Now i think he was trying to help the stock market but it backfired because harassing the fed chief justice. This isn't all that constructive. Even if trump was right and is right love him or hate him. I think he is actually write about monetary. Policy see the fed could instantly cut rates solving the invert euchre problem and giving me a nice boost. Oh walter major the slow. It's a perfect time for the government commit to borrow a slug of money to fund some infrastructure spending but that would acquire the white house and congress actually work together which is pretty unlikely. Maybe you could slip it in. I don't know some sort of infrastructure restructure bond but suffice it to say that i think trump is right and the fed has not done a great job. They took rates much too high third driver. The bizarre bomb market a huge percentage of government bonds in the rest of the world. Now negative interest rates when that happens. It's typically because these countries have very little economic quote as i keep telling you this situation situation causes massive massive foreign money to flow into u._s. Treasuries we're getting a much better return than you get from. Say german bonds that dollars. I that's what pumped up. The dollar are making less competitive. Point four are bomb markets sailing that recession is right around the corner and there's some parts of the economy that do reinforce it you you could argue that aerospace long. One of the strongest sectors in america is pointing to a halt because of the problems with boeing seven thirty said max boase actually big enough that they can move the needle in terms of the g._d._p. This very evening cisco the giant technology company talked about seeing some cracks global economy. That's surprising it will hurt all tech tomorrow because chuck grabbed the c._e._o. Is a cool and calm headed man but he did give low guides. Meanwhile macy's just reported ripcord this morning and it's a warning sign that some parts of the consumers the landscape could be in trouble now of course macy's might not represent the way people shop anywhere these are full price mall based stores for heaven's sake. The quarter was deathly worrisome. I got to talk about some morbid. We'll talk more about later so boeing. Cisco macy's all headed in the wrong direction for me. Since this is all new i find this worries i v brexit deadlines rapley poaching a hard brexit okay. Let's call it in your eyes glaze over but it could be disaster a go to europe. This is what people talk about not. I'm over there air. Maybe it causes a freeze and european commerce justice. There's a dramatic decline in chinese consumption. Were they sell a lot of product. A spectre is haunting europe. The spectre of brexit induced use depression. This is the armageddon's near the potentially lead to the failure of major european banks and a total shutdown of credit. It wouldn't shock me the european banks trading trading as if they are in big trouble six the trading force will live with talk today. <hes> the decline reflects a belief that bernie sanders elizabeth warren or might win the election. Both centers make no secret of the fact that they want to crack down on capitol so we'd better get used to the fear that they install among wealthy people who own lots of stocks that could explain why the dividend stocks keep getting hit right because even though the bond market conditions upside down we'll think about it makes sense investors expect the tax aiken capital gains and dividend income. They'd be dumping dumping them. That could happen stock going to happen. The democrats nominate one of the more leftwing candidates and then sweep the senate next year but maybe some measure. You're trying to price in that possibility. If so we've got plentiful the seventh and final pan-asian several lords institutions might be shorting bonds pending leading against them and as bond prices keep rising. They're getting squeezed and could be about to go bust now. It may sound farfetched but we saw something similar nineteen ninety eight with the failure of long term from capital management a hedge fund run by allegedly smart people who took some incredibly stupid risk ends up doing tremendous damage to the market re- confessions of a street addict if you wanna know so which is it well for the moment. It doesn't matter does it whatever the cause. We can't ignore the bomb markets behavior. It's too extreme of course many of these negatives. A reverse will almost all man-made and hicfa. Can i think it'd be on me right now. Though our stock is handcuffed to the bomb market as long as that's the case as the momentum is with the bears not the bulls even if the bears all turn out to be wrong ultimately a long time from now in stocks and bonds momentum matters and welcome irrational. It is wrong to ignore it. This market is now a largely ruled by fear. I don't like being scared into anything when it comes to my money or yours i remember panic is not a strategy. Eventually we've cassandra's. We'll be proven wrong. I still think the economy has some strength to or at least strengthen up to avoid avoid recession but in the interim i accept that being common patient has gone out of style. I want to be opportunistic and say the bond market. Just plain wrong in this plenty left to buy the truth is we've been selling for my charitable trust but you can follow along at action was plus dot com. We just raise cash the bottom line. I don't blame anyone anyone for racism cashier my trust it but it'd be a a big mistake to sell everything you don't panic when economies hanging on wait for were of a decline member the s._n._p. Is still up thirteen percent. The nasdaq is up seventeen percent accent and once it comes down then you can do some opportunity by let's go to larry in new jersey larry. Hey jim how're you. Thank you taking my call. Oh thank you for calling larry. What's up prudential right now. Ticker right hammer today <hes> yeah yeah they did historically. They've been pretty strong stock with a good yield and they've got a compelling value proposition to make financial wellness widely available <hes> they've got a unique business makes make the execute on that as well but still they've been trading at or below book value for awhile management's been pretty open about the investing. They're making to become more efficient and recently the stock dipped dipped almost twenty percent. <hes> had a bad earnings recently partly due to updated assumptions in their individual life business which to improve the return on in recent years so i'm wondering if this russillo presents a buying opportunity or would recommend holding in seeing within blend. I don't like the way this talk axe. I just don't like it <hes> we i'd. I like to have them on. I mean the there is something very wrong with where the book value is versus where the stock is versus the high yield and i have to tell you i improves a fabulous company but i got to throw the red flag. I don't know enough. We gotta learn more because that yield is too high and that book i used to high. Let's go to button ohio. Police bud live ski daddy yo what's up. Hey thank you again for talking sense when the markets turn goofy and everybody's tedelex likes here one of the things i've been trying to do is i tried to incorporate your lessons about discipline and mistake. I made the past all it is a buying all at once so now i raise some cash and looking at buying with white scales all the way down. It's like you teach your recent show on flash crashes dot they thinking. Let's say i want to buy some more x._y._z. Stop down eight percent from my initial basis and i watched it trade and i do you my homework. Why not having scant why not have a standing good show cancelled limited by order at down twenty five or thirty percent just in case. There's another half hour flash class. I missed the superman book down down. That much might be interesting because there. You're not going to get it down fifty after down twenty five. That's my worry. I think that that's okay. I traditionally like people to always focus on the orders themselves and don't do anything. Don't do anything like that but but if you're gonna put a standing order all the way down that's intriguing to me as long as it's not eight to ten to twelve fourteen is down twenty-five but remember here's the issue there have been the flash crashes that have even for some stocks down thirty or forty so i would use an even wider place to do it. I may not get hit but i won't be worried. Let's go to jacob in new york. Djenka hancock agem. I got into dropbox that nineteen forty thousand deal fairly of not. Should i hold or get up off your though mr house has done a great job but holy cow. There's a lot of competition coming in then now and that's the kind of stock. That's not working. The end won't work tomorrow. When cisco says that they see a slowdown. Remember cisco really put the knife to a lot of the expectations technologies and i said there's gonna be a readjustment and i will find. I think many people find it surprising momentum right now people with there's not because of the not with the bulls and it's because this bizarre and i think with a good economy. The bears could end up being wrong but i can't be certain right now. After what happened tonight. It was disastrous thirty four street. I'm focusing on the border. Implications massey's may at macy's massive earnest's then after today's knock down drag gals session. I know you've got questions. I'm opening up the phone lines to hear from you. America remember wakened be constructive but we can't be pollyannas it for pipe painful. If the average is there are some silver linings point out of buying opportunity to but let's not get over confident and state with <unk>. You don't miss a second of mad money. Follow at jim cramer on twitter. I have a question tweet gramer hashtag mad tweets send him an email to mad money at c._n._b._c. dot com or give us a call at one eight hundred seven four three c._n._b._c. miss. Something ed tha mad money dot c._n._b._c. dot com. I'm david favorite join. Join me cro came to me and jim cramer for the opening bell our of c._n._b._c. squawk on the street the podcast subscribe for free wherever you listen and you can always catch. That's just live weekdays at nine a._m. Eastern c._n._b._c. listen to the macy's conference. Call this morning. You think we're definitely headed into recession yeah. It was that grim also the corporate. Well macy's had too much inventory volutary. The lack of foreign buyers makes sense with the strong dollar. It's very expensive for foreign tourists to come to the united states that big herald square your store. They used to come there right. That's tourist come to see and they're definitely not going to come here on a shopping trip right now. With that one higher the blue mercury blue beauty and wellness visits excellent digital business i won but it wasn't enough to save macy's from a severe disappointment company earning twenty eight cents. A share wall street is looking for forty five cents. Wow that's so bad. I almost thought it was a misprint sprint to make matters. Worse base is also right in the crosshairs of these latest tariffs on chinese merchandise again. If you're on the call management's concerned about what higher tariffs might might mean for the consumer. I think it's legitimate worry at this point for everyone. Who's been fixated bomb market assuming an inverted <unk> means. We're headed for nasty slowdown basis. Is this concrete evidence that at least one part of the economy is in pretty rough shape. Just look at the stock great. Now it's sporting nearly nine percent yield because investors will. They don't believe the company could afford to keep that dividend. These levels in the company's balance is the best it's been in years imagined uneven shade down their forecasts by very much the truth vis older investors are thinking back to nineteen ninety two when a debt laden over acquisitive macy's filed for bankruptcy personally. I think that's highly unlikely but we know that retails tells a tough business and there are lots of companies. They can't make it. We do know that macy's has structural problems just like every other more based department store chain especially the ones that miss the mark in terms of fashion or that rely on spending from tourists so i can't blame anyone for looking at this quarter including the bond market is correctly forecasting the end of the expansion fall by the beginning of a recession especially if the now delayed taras get slapped on chinese exports a competitive but the risk was a little pollyannaish. I don't think macy's is all representative of retail in general when you're trying to judge a whole industry you should never take your cue from trouble company right now. All the departures are troubled. That's why i'm betting the consumer might be okay. People aren't shopping there simply shopping different places as big as macy's may be. It's puny compared to watch my acronym for walmart amazon target it costco and home depot off which i think are doing pretty. Well certainly better than macy's. These five countries have the scale to storm their suppliers into absorbing the cost of the tariffs or they could slightly slightly raise prices to pass them onto the consumer giving it. The prices are already so low. I i don't even know where the people would notice. If consumers really hurting she's going to shop at a revamp dollar dollar tree or a bit taller general these are trade downplays the tend to benefit from a slowing economy rather than buying clothes directly from me. He's the consumer waits for them to offload their excess inventory to t._j. T._j. maxx or burlington stores at huge discounts and then picks up the same stuff for a fraction of the price so yeah. The macy's conference call was brutal but i think that's less about the state state of the consumer and more about the state of the mall based department store in this day and age. You have to have a major online presence. Were you need to offer incredible. Bargains like the dollar stores or the off price. Change everyone else. Let's just say their stocks are very hard to own. Go to nick in arizona. Please neck. Hey jim thanks for taking my call. You're quite welcome <hes> yes so with the retail sector being cleaned down as much as it has been. I was wondering what your opinion for. Nordstrom is that value stuck and also a dividend dog. You know what they're not working the value stocking give the socks or simply not working for instance. My travel trust owns positioning. Kohl's we sold some the other day we tend to the buyback. Today we said no. No kohl's nordstrom and macy's are regarded as one big bad stock even though they have good managers and i knocking to put you in that house a pain. It's just too hard. How about tim in florida ten. Hi jim how are you. I'm good. How are you hey. I'm good. Thanks <hes>. I bought stitch fix mid-july at about twenty nine sixty now a month later. It's lost about a third of the price right to appear to be on the swing. The financials will not great seem to be okay at the time. It's an interesting business model now. It's twenty one. What are your thoughts well. I think that this is like a lot like real real like revolve and what happens is. This whole court is getting hurt and the reason why it's getting hurt. There's people feel that all these i._p._o.'s were too hot and they come back down. I think stitch fix is a very good company. Is it a two billion dollar market cap company. That should stay. Hey there. I think that has to grow and when i met management. I think they're very very smart. I want you to hold on <hes>. It made me by some little bit lower. This is a brutal market right now and i don't want to the panic. Kills become very hard. Not everyone who naked macy's tells the brutal story in this age. You have to be online or off price. Macy's is quote in between what's the story. Macy's pelley might not be go but i'm pointing to meet 'til players that could be worth considering following their massive declines plus myself strategy session a movement the phone lines to hear from you kramer. Let me up advocate. The markets unknowns and tourist drop today doesn't necessarily instill confidence in the candido space space doesn't but one company in the group has been quietly beating expectations rally off its lows and it's not the big dog our name on i sit down with the ceo so stay with kramer. Asia remains the fastest growing region in the world and will make two thirds of global middle class consumption by the year twenty fifty at matthews asia. We've been investing in asia for over twenty five years and our mission is to champion asia focused investment solutions may profit it from this growth and build wealth for global clients over the long term find out what a dedicated allocation to asia cannot to your portfolio at matthews asia dot com slash opportunity action was difficult to understand is ten lease. Both the bomb market stocks when the one and we had the bomb silly recession the other hand. We have a robust job growth number. Maybe this other signs of weakness out there. Although i don't we're headed new recession anytime soon can't ignore these dramatic declines or can we <hes> big northeast like cisco's forecast just the season. It's hard to stay calm. We see stocks flashing flashing red. I don't blame you but you have to remember. The panic is not a strategy. The market is ruled by fear right now and some of it could be justified but as always let's get it conquered okay. I'm more people to phone lines. Thanks to help you the home gamers of america strategize during this while ride and we're going to start with tomas in arizona tomasz jim. Thank you for taking my call how i'm good. How about you trying to stay out of the blatant arizona heat all right so i'm twenty one years old just graduated with my master's degree earlier or this week congratulations my my questions for stock that was recently trading higher than my student budget but it has taken a dive the last couple of weeks as the rest of the semi but i've been watching it closely. The stock is failing and i wanna know if it's ready to buy or we should wait for may lows <hes> i think can may have to wait and i say that because because of cisco's forecast tonight but also because look they have a lot of business in china and the president yesterday saturday extended an olive branch and the chinese didn't do anything today so i think <hes> caution is warranted with zeilinger particularly because they did not have a great last quarter thank you. Let's go to mark in nevada. Please mark. Oh hi jim. How're you doing today. I'm good how are you oh hanging in in there. I had some bad experiences buying dividend stocks where the company goes cuts than the share price plummets and so are there any in light eight of the ridiculous of low interest rates right now right. Are there any stocks right now that offer three three qualities that's stable dividend and with a low payout ratio strong balance sheet but the big thing is a stock it offers some stable price and that's been the big problem. It's the volatility volatility in rates any tax out there offer all three well one that just reported and he's doing a lot of things right is c._v._s. Which is the drugstore chain. A lot of people feel like that that they were concerned but the cash flow is really good. The numbers were very good best in seven years the front of the store and and it yields more than three percent the second one i would tell you is coca cola. It's come back down on pointers. Actually up-to-date down fifty cents got another three percent yield. It's growing. I mean and i think both of those would fit the bill so let's look at those great long-term situations. Let's go to fill in new jersey phil jim melwert sorry. We're friends. I'm good how are you at least you got the eagles. Look forward the stock mortgages being doing it for me. Okay this feeling man. I'm doing fantasy see. I'm doing watching the eagles but i can't take my off of what happened because a lot of people getting hurt here and i'm not gonna focus anything else until i figured out this stuff for you. What's going on sure. I'm forty two years old. I have a diversified portfolio p index one and then the rest of my stuff stocks this aboard diversification <music>. I'm looking to add a black rock tomorrow portfolio his you know the risk. Recession has a good yield good track record of good management just wondering even though it's considered like a financial maybe <hes> borderline with being like an investment company. It gives a good stuff to could buy or volatile. No no i mean sometimes you have to just take the divided by ten act like it's a forty one dollars. That's run by larry. He's probably one the most able ceos in the country. I think the business is good. You're right yields three percent. I have no problem with putting on a quarter position right now. Let the volatility tilleke make you money meaning when we have these swings. You're down there buying little businesses good. Is it perfect. No larry think will figure out how to make it as good. It is possible. I liked your selection. Let's go to jim in new york now. Jim jim jim from new york. Okay i'm good. How are you oh. I'm pretty good today. I learned my lesson about not panicking and i've learned a lot from you over the. I'm learning a big lesson back in december. I i pretty much <hes> you know sold out and then brought back in <hes> you know early january uh not quick enough and <hes> and since then i've been slowly building my positions and my question to you is i need some guidance. I'm pretty much fully invested. I'm diversified but you know have a probably sixty percent of my portfolio as a tech okay and <hes> you know there's a lot in the red here so it's not like i can sell and you know <hes> take. Some profits is a couple of things going on but i just don't know where to go from here. Whether or not i should just you stay pot well. I do think that the sell off guard a little overdone today because of cisco's guidance which is a big cap stock. We're going to get a little bit more choppiness tomorrow i believe but i think you can't sell into this mellstrom. I think you have to wait for a little bit of balance. I think do not belittle you know for the actual plus dot com club. I told people listen you gotta. Take your cash and now that the cash up we have the freedom of being able to choose. You need to have that freedom in your head right eight. Now you're stuck and i can hear it in your voice. You do some sell you a little bit of strength and you'll make it so you can view this as an opportunity not a nightmare. Thank you so much the calls right now. This market is entirely by fear of getting. There are things that are wrong but not everything. I agree with some of it. I don't agree with those listen. Listen c._n._b._c. is every angle of this covered. There is a special tonight right after the show at seven pm so do not miss it much more money. Maybe are horrifying tape but i'm lying to stocks. Dachshund could be worth considering positive applies fanta today sell up feel like you need to mellow out well. I gotta stop to get help and don't let today's drop scare you. I'm taking all your questions rapid fire. It's night's edition of the lightning round to stay with kramer. The markets getting schema like it is today. I try to pull little johnny mercer. Century positively make the negative don't mess with mister in between but what the heck is positive about horrific daily. Today i want sure things. This is a real real ugly tape. You know what this is frankly. We have an address for burn. However there are some things you need to remember things like the fact that some stocks get cheaper. They go down. Why does that matter because there's genuine buying opportunities here as long as you're willing to be patient and pick up these stocks gradually on the way down notice did not say by your statement buys. Just let them drift down for example this year. We've had a daewoo survive some good some bad some terrible and for months now we've been feeling left out of the recoup once every time a company with a great story become public. I tell you it was worth bali but you know what it's white but the only on price don't do it yet. Sweet way then time and again these new immunised in his talks when chewed up ridiculously expensive wells ri- felt uncomfortable recommending them somehow people my twitter feed are claiming that i'm the biggest cheater of i._p._o.'s by good. Tell that to the bankers anchors who are pushing. We work when i said it would be a disaster in the making depending upon where they did price it. I actually did a piece by the way last week on this show talking given how i may have been too cautious in not recommending these ideas but i didn't want to hurt anybody. I'm standing by that. Whoa wow guess what you're getting the price break. We've been waiting for many of these new issues. There's one that i really liked it. Just been hammered called revolve group. Okay whoa nasty so web based fashion retailers taking major market market share from the big department stores not only have to revolve came public in june. I told you was terrific story but i said no. No you can't buy stock runup so dramatically reallocate voting from eighteen to thirty four to the first day of trading that you never really had a decent buying up to me. I was not going to let you chase remember. We don't chase the show so i told you putting your shop. Let's keep your eyes peeled pilfer pullback. Thanks to this panic. Driven market revolves now experience. A massive declines stock was twenty percent just last week the wake of what was widely viewed as disappointing disappoint quarter then today plummeted forty percent a month ago. The stop was thirty eight bucks now. It's the twenty to twenty to change. This is the lowest level since its i._p._o. Look at this. We said well here. I am saying okay and not just stop at zero because that's really about twenty so this is about more than one company. I mean i took a lot of difficulty so the same pattern we see the same thing for him in the new fascist real that's online consignment shop yup. I think this could be turned out the this could be the opportunity. I'm not going to run from it. I'm going to embrace it so let me explain why because i know it's hard to even consider buying something as crashing crashing to earth like these things especially in retail world place i mean macy's just reported a woeful quarter. It cuts forecasts dot com thirteen percent. Today i mean it has nine percent. You'll nobody cares house. We go about something like this. Well you know what i go. Bush revolve or the real real if macy's getting buttery let me tell you why these companies are part part of the reason why macy's getting rid they're disrupting. We like disrupters right. There are disrupting what's left of the department stores and it is working so why let me start with revolve. The booth. Here's pre straight for revolve runs three online stores. The high end revolve the super giant ford and the cheaper super down the company's premised on the idea that brick and mortar pow chains were either too broad like department stores like macy's or too narrow specially stores both being hurt if they're in the mall l. revolve thinking that they can use the internet creates the in between then they built their own technology platform to automate inventory management pricing even trend for kisii so they can predict what you want before you even know what you want. The company's trying to turn the fashion business to science but wants two thousand new styles each week as a kind of experiment vermin then they doubled down on whatever this isn't this what you want these old lumbering dinosaur department stores can't do this. This business model allows revolved operate with extremely we lean inventories inventories the bane of retailers this when traditional retailers have too much person dies they need them walking down giving you deep discounts and really hurting the profitability <music> but revolve seventy nine percent of its sales are made at full price match hosted popular private label brands to and we know privately will carry much higher margins and selling product me by other companies plus the company's great at digital marking known as even listening all they're feeling right now is ten year to year ten year to year thirty or thirty year like their their hair's on fire. If i had any chance to put it all together and you had the makings of a fantastic growth story which is why the stratosphere right after it came public in recent weeks though investors have started worrying about the new tariffs as revolves sources perhaps as much as forty percent of merchandise from china ouch but but i think they can pass the tariffs on the customers and more importantly any chinese trouble i believe at this level is it lasts baked in a lot of people don't feel you can ever bake in china trouble so i think some of these have then last report a cord that was widely panned stock because i think that's a mistake. Look at the actual numbers here revolve posted a tiny one cent earnings. He's missed one thousand nine hundred basis. Their sales came in higher than expected. You know we care about rather is up twenty three percent year over year ice cream with a slight uptick from the previous quarter. We want that the copy of one point three-million active customers up thirty six percent. I mean to me it sounds like pinchers that zuma how about the full year guides while management's ebitda forecasts that's earnings before interest taxes depreciation amortization came in higher than anticipated and the mid point of their sales forecast was about two million dollars. Shy of this five million number wall street was looking for still talking about twenty to twenty two percent. I'll take that no one was up all here no but dan here yeah in response to stock plummeted fifteen percent friday. I know quarter wasn't perfect but that's a pretty extreme reaction revolved mysterious by penny. Their sales kinds was teensy tiny bit conservative and the stock. It's pulverized. How does that make sense song song because this was the first quarter as a public company little rookie issue a little fresh and when you mess that up a little when you're gonna be punished. I mainly though i think revolves all sold off because the investor base was expecting too much. That's why told you not to buy this thing. When it was trading the thirties ban holders your enemy fella shareholders revolved didn't totally shoot the lights out and then gave you spectacular optimal and then gave you spectacularly for updated forecast these candid shareholders dumped the stock they had to give a big guide light up and they had to have a big beat and they didn't get it in my view managements being reason they're responsibly using the cash to build their lower and site super down along with a bunch of private label rants. These guys don't want to over promise. That's a good thing and there was plenty to like about this quarter if you care enough to do the homework revolves revenues accelerate the of course marcus increase the tip imagine any of these other retailers having their total orders grew by more than thirty percent the platform still in great shape. That's why so many analysts have reiterated by ratings. Some of them even raise the price targets but in this brutal market none of that seems to matter which is why you're being given the chance to buy revolve at such a huge discount. We wanted to pull beck now. We've got one at these levels revolve selling for about twenty nine times next year's earnings estimates roughly twenty one times the urges twenty twenty one twenty times earnings for a company with twenty twenty percent growth. That's bad. We've seen a similar week. This call real real. I don't like that name. It sounds stupid but you know what we work. Sounds sounds good and i think that's a bad investment real. Real is the online consignment shop where they'll they'll help. You sell your us luxury accessories and apparel now this one. It's stock plummeted twenty three percent on friday. No apparent reason i can find then let's set to cut reporters seemingly great quarter fabulous numbers of course what happens after opening up ten percents ah that was interesting and perhaps real real got dragged down by the market giving up all this case older. We closing down sixteen percent. I'm sorry that kind of reaction borders was on the panic. I don't think that represents rational thinking again. I think you can start building position right here and then by moore if he it keeps failing to leave some room. We understand these stocks cannot they could before knives. Where's my falling night. We'll use this one. It could be like no. I liked that one and i would do that. Whereas what happened to my bowie knife okay. This isn't depiction of every single stock that people are thinking including these okay and i have to tell you you can't catch this. Watch pikachu see that would hurt right so what you do. Is you catch a little of it well. I mean it makes it so. It's not an if you catch a little bit. Here's the bottom item on this is a this is a horrifying tape but structurally do get cheaper kids out some of these guidelines some dictates vint vint by the victims. We told you wait we waited and now we're green-lighting revolve group in the real real because their stocks have come down dramatically even though the actual companies are berg berg chairman but one way to buying to drive. Don't be afraid to take advantage of it. Just remember the market so random that you need to start small and stage your buys gradually the way down because there's no telling with these two beaten down stocks will bottom anytime soon. It is time the light goes off and then the lady rounds over. Are you ready skiing legroom niagara. Let's go let's go. Let's go with tommy and you'll and louisiana tommy thompson louisiana. My stock is pillow. They had a really second quarter and i'd like to know your thoughts off the glass painter and <hes> i have to tell you i'm not encouraged by that situation waist. They have spent a lot of time in the wilderness and it certainly doesn't seem to talk them anything. We're going to take a pass on oh hi. Let's go to jim in virginia. Didn't the virgin islands jim. Hey how are we doing. I am good. How are you are right. Hey so marcus yet today down today question. I've been vetted stomach okay conducted companies for the past year and a half now because they believe me growing development they i in the future by largest holdings in microelectronic not i'm certainly i know the month of a day twitter but more focused on my retirement call a good company. I there are expected to go down tomorrow off of what cisco and to say hey. It's a good company at fifteen sixteen lovie better than seventeen because i said we expect these talks have a little more weakness. Let's go to marjorie in georgia marjorie it down an order man. I love your show. Thank you hi. This georgia. Bulldog wants to know what you think about the they strain. I don't like the midstream. I think the whole metro news partnership coop. I have been very much against and l. Subsets themselves as just aren't working. They have no growth and i don't some say trust them john in michigan john. I love the show jim. I don't what your thoughts were on. Solar edge stock is already kind of left it that one is left the barn it's way too high versus the rest of the market and by its court so we're going to take a pass joe barton jau kramer rupp day on the street all yeah very rough day all right. Let's talk about eminem for minute. Here's been through a lot of last month. Twenty two then they'd went secondary went great four hundred billion of eighteen then the f._d._a. Threw a curveball adamant announced to you on pepper and today leering upgraded outperform more than a few sweat. I think it's okay. It's not my fame here. I think we gotta go a little more conservative and that lands husian up it might be is sponsored by t._d. Ameritrade doc even devastating today remember. This was the worst day for the dow this year. There can be some positive themes. You're willing to work hard. Go take the cannabis court. The group has been a house of pain for months ever since wall street started care about the actual results and not just the grand plans that could go nowhere but in a rough month for the averages may the marijuana stocks have been bouncing in part because they put a better than expected numbers which raised me village forms international. That's a small and inspected of canadian campus grower. This is an interesting company because originally it was a produce play. Yeah that's greenhouse grower tomatoes peppers cucumbers. I then candidate legalize weed and they started blowing that too as well as adding outdoor him production for the cd space morning village big top and bottom line beat twenty-seven percent sales growth with when you include the results from their joint ventures but you must do the company even had a surprise profit canvas they own fifty percent pure son farms which saw sells quote by one hundred twenty five percent versus the previous quarter this suckling rallied two percent on the news visit run up substantially in the print and today gave up most of that so could the better run marijuana stocks doc speak good place to go in a brutal tape. Let's dig deeper with might julia. He is the ceo village farms international flooring war about his company and we're headed. Mr zealand zealand. Welcome at money pledged to be here. Jim thank you sir. This is your first time on the show. Could you walk our viewers through a what you you guys do and how you pivoted from being a company that was really a greenhouse for vegetables into something much bigger and i think we're luth sure we'll village farms. I mean we have three in decades of <hes> large-scale precision agriculture almost ten million square feet of production and greenhouses between the u._s. Western canada and tremendous know-how decades of experience growing these high value crops so for us to switch to count abyss was just really another agricultural crop and in in in that regard we saw the transformation of our assets were much more valuable crop rob from produce so we've been very happy to produce business where shifting that platform south of the u._s. border to nafta and this pro cannabis products <hes> cannabis in canada as well as c._b._d. In the u._s. just gives us a great opportunity to deliver unmatched result. That's where we're headed headed. I looked at your growth which is extraordinary but also you have a very well line management team you own a great deal. I think a lot of people want in these in the end the candidates space they're not used to seeing that a lot of the of the ceos have almost no stock. You're pretty entrenched here right sure. I have about twenty percent ownership in a company. I'm the founder thirty years ago and i really believe in the future so i'm alive without shareholders and i think it brings a different element because does i'm at risk and you know dilution. You know dilutions dilution of the share price doesn't go up but we take it very seriously. We wanna be eighty percent correct that <hes> decisions we make make will pay out and that we got. I think i am different but <hes> it's really about our team. We're very team oriented. We're village farms. <hes> moss us about people have been with us twenty twenty five years if not thirty and more importantly the young team that we've put together and pure some farms that have taken now strategy and now bringing it to a c._p._t. Platform in canada. I think is very exciting because we launch our brand on top of the fact that we're probably probably one of the top performing companies in the space at least from profitability both sides of the border highest the highest margin low cost producer and i can tell you in my thirty years. There's nothing more prudent than being a low cost producer in agriculture because every commodity every agriculture commodity will eventually commodities out so this what now question i know that locals producer which disturbed when and you do have extensive relationship from your vegetable business with companies like walmart with whole foods with trader joes with kroger would be willing to take your vegetables say a your cannabis and and what you sell it to him white label and they make products out of their own. That's absolutely on our radar screen because you know it's taken a lot over thirty the years that have these relationships and <hes> these are great companies and you don't just get in the door easily so we can leverage that up even though they're different departments apartments at least were coming in with a reputation of <hes> selling most retailers in the u._s. and canada over thirty years and we look forward to doing that as well as developing l. a. ping or purchasing our own brands. We've moved forward so yeah. That's all on the table. All right terrific congratulations good quarter report during such arrived diver the market too bad. Thank you okay. That's michael gilio village forums internatio speculative but low cost producer of a commodity which is what this is so stick will stick around right after this first c._n._b._c. special featuring some extra cost by yours truly. Don't miss it seven pm. The cisco news was disconcerting. Say there's always have promised to find it just for you right here my buddy. I'm jim quiver. I'll see you to morrow at matthews asia. We uncover unique companies across asia prime to benefit from consumer trends that brought her international funds myths find out what a dedicated allocation to asia cannot to your portfolio at matthews asia dot com slash opportunity.
Michael SmithIm Unplugged From the Matrix
"Gorgeous gems every time it starts with a tiny piece of LAB GROWN DIAMOND HEATED UP IN PLASMA reactor to temperatures nearly as hot as the sun after about two weeks ever heard of lab grown diamonds lab grown diamonds are essentially chemically identical to natural ones just made in a lab at light box they've mastered the process to grow when you got the six PM Sports Use Code Entrepreneur and wellness for twenty five dollars off potential at forty years old because I've been in that box it's a hell of a buys a big box but especially now the greatest sports broadcasters of the modern era a really smart brother who rose up through ESPN's ranks alongside jemele hill moving from hosting his and hers with her a little things were difficult from day one I've no Michael for a long time and we talked about what was really going on and it's a lesson in the reality of big time TV he just celebrated like we all want something and we had it was a thrill to see Mike and Djamil takeover that slot and make it their own but behind the scenes with love and it's just like I've gotten the last couple of weeks I got it with the announcement I got it for the different world opened on noted there's something wrong with the world as you know it it's like I knew something was out there but couldn't quite touch it and now I'm free I'm like Oh man this is what is there is a world outside of ESPN. I realized that there is life after you know I know that there is something else like when Morpheus was telling neo like you just gets overwhelming I sat in my hotel room not as a result of the response but just personally I sat in a hotel I remember we got the six but I've had moments where there's nothing like it wear your mentioned is flooded with the culture we're black twitter center it was like the culture was like yes awesome figurine we've all wanted mating did bedrick so we only signed a settlement with ESPN allowing him to move on and talk about his past and we got a lot to talk about so let's get into it it's Ma'am Michael Smith on Toray show a group at ESPN literally I got when I was twenty five years old is almost all I knew I had a cup of coffee at the Boston Globe I was there for three years I now see Eh and you felt that I felt it on a lot of levels I mean outpouring of support like I've had it both ways I've been drug on twitter supposed to feel like I'm energized in a way that I was never energized before it I couldn't be energized before because I wasn't agent of the system I don't even feel like I've tapped that assignment yeah you know the platform what sportscenter met within espn what's sportscenter meant to the industry what sportscenter met to American pop culture yeah the money is eighty but just like validation conformation all the things we done you know Jay now often said that again confirmation validation affirmation at all the hard work had culminated with such a such a major incitement at ESPN got was it for the time slot the just the status the money of all evil everything that came with renewed show to hosting the six PM Sports Center one of the biggest slots on the network when Michael and Jim got that job it felt like a victory for the culture and P center got it for that announcement it was like comments tweets like so much so is like I gotta go back I've got to thank all these people want by war because it's just so we were in a hotel for like a week or so and I'm in a hotel room by myself and it really was the first time in my career that stop and smell the roses and I shed tears the the waterline our frigerator had died in my floor had flooded so surf pro had we live in a hotel for a minute okay right you know I got my knees thank God and I got up and I cried 'cause it was it was a it was a sense of not just of two thousand seventeen I feel I because so one of the things that I think appeal to the mainstream uh ooh you win in there and you create your own products Jemma that at twelve that was told with his and hers that was totally different than anything on the network and then they said we're going to elevate you to one of the top slots whole thing that's exactly right so how long did it go well skits right while we want his and hers we did come to America was the first one I think we did stepbrothers we did and we always would attach the so we started like the second week of Sports Center we did a golden girls when we thank you for being a friend we license the license edibles everybody thank you for being a friend place his and hers was noon right his nurse was noon right I remember I remember when it was a big deal the Laura how long not long let's see we started we started February no I think appeal to the powers that be at the time at ESPN was this little bit that we did we had kind of become known in part for me and then I would say the highlight the high point of the Serbian sportscenter for us was when we were able to gather the cast of a different world together seen the sports if possible but after a while our brand was big enough at least within this bubble to where we didn't have to attach sports like we did empire you know when empires and how upset some people were because remember once upon a time I take when it was on ESPN two reappeared at noon it was I say it's a you more news we've created this little thing was it at three o'clock it was all over the phone numbers never lie was like three thirty four it was all over I pop any we just attach it to us stepbrothers was about us in our relationship we did anchorman with a lot of other e not the end all be all and I'm only two weeks into it I'm like Oh and everybody told me like Joe when you consider the side you're gonNa feel differently about it Michael Smith I've had a lot of female co hosts I have never had an I love all those women to this day but I have never had the connection and do the different world open how ironic because it was a different world from where we came from brain it was it was fittingly ironic ironically fitting with instabilities four similar drive and motivation this is no order just listening similar driving motivation five saint places in our careers back to back okay and so when we we were at one point and then when we came in and move to noon people like the fuck you know what I mean we weren't always as close but we knew each other to same age range three similar backgrounds you know we were selling tapes out the trunk so that was a record deal yeah that was a record deal ya so it was it was big it was definitely was it foot when you talk about like crying pinhole camera talent and the probably the best one was boys in hood for Halloween we turn to set into the porch that was probably the best one audience and here you go you mix the wrong combustible so it was a number of factors one we've known each other since about two thousand and two Saturday and so we do this and they even did it at the movie siskel and Ebert recapping our skits so we really milk that for what it was word black people or furthermore anchor by one black person one black man and one black woman with which is not comedic which is not about blackness I can't I mean there's some an expert on this and I am because this was told to me and try to figure it out and I couldn't refute it was the non comedic primetime show anchor in that y'all to have I mean I don't get anybody who was it right away yeah it was it was before are you know it was like this whole wave of debate television and disagree and intention and and and the small minded lack of imagination we knew was there so shout cerita Johnson Johnson Bridge media now she's actually in the management representation game now she's an agent started on agency right right but optically it's like whoa there each side is represented ray so the idea damage could disagree as much as we did was a foreign Portugal incentive for an espn like everybody else you kidding you watch espn but as sitting there watching it all day so there were people who watched ten o'clock I take and noon I take okay at the time believe it or not I'm doing this podcast your podcast right back then podcast weren't the exploding industry that they are now what's up right so we got rejected when it came to wanting to do television we might have gotten like a three day stint on I take time and you know they still in c like we we vibe to which they said so they're like actually out more specifically what is there was well you know y'all think too much like six we weren't a forced or arranged marriage arranged pairing you wanted to work together Oh you can't you chose each other correct and went to the brass eh so anyway that was it was all downhill from there as Weibring it was all downhill from there so before that was that was February march seventeen before we go into the downhill yeah the thing is it was before we got on Air Sea thing is so many this is why I was such a perfect conversions of factors that chemistry chemistry is ingredients right and you writing Ravens Forty niners think that was super bowl I think regard I'll maybe she sang the national anthem regardless it was so off Um because see which means you're black correct I was due a non black show as to black host very rare very rare hadn't happened right and you tell me you're more does but even before that when I say we went to management for that they rejected the idea that to black people could do it and and disagree because remember get into pop culture and not the way we were doing it and so then there was a rape case involving a high school football team in Steubenville Ohio it was just it was almost like a last resort for us it's the last resort because they wouldn't give us a TV show together an opportunity on television we can give us a radio show together and kilter so off the beaten path again this is not that long it's two thousand thirteen or whatever year was espn was like where's the sports we like August we'll go do a podcast not realizing audition for that too so we auditioned for podcasts reader Johnson gave the green light and even then we did it the first few times and I remember even Cerita as much as he supported us she was like do kind of podcasts again we don't have to get it arnold at espn they started to really listen pay attention to us and that's when he isn't hers was kind of like is low underground with any ESPN we started really developing this this shen that permeates management when that management is pretty much almost exclusively white men is it's got to be a black man white man we ain't got to women yet this has got to be a black I'd say well you know I did this and she did that and and this is the the the way that we gelled and the reason why we're so what is the mixture for you she's a little silly prison in a white person because they disagree and that's even a Oh is gets a wake the PTI model when the truth of the matter is Tony think alike she's on their leg drinking crazy stuff and eating stuff exactly but you know what I would like to think I uh-huh we got deep remember that and that's when we displayed the range that they were like Oh okay there's something here and so let me how many people can say hills is sportscenter and you guys have had our name on it we weren't sportscenter anchors no it was going to be our sports a sports center with Mike Lange we've renamed correct rebranded local news broadcast especially in the south where you might have to black hosts and it's not supposed to be about and not only that but just a schedule famous anchor or the stars of the space is finite and here's DV show radio show it's like space is fine I wouldn't give us opportunities to showcase chemistry and so we were like I mean they wanted to or they just so happened to be together local it's not even still not so yeah it with commercials so I'm saying like it was unprecedented never to phrases that we we did that as the open and so that was that was that moment another one was more was where the culture just like stood up and applauded right you know it was it was crazy to my love we'll sports who cares and we've been doing sit that wasn't being done people weren't going off and talking pop culture taking sports as a jumping off park point just at the corner of the two of us and so I think my silliness actually allowed her to tap into her sillier side as well also too make your way in this game you realize that you have to establish a certain quote unquote credibility with the mainstream mainstream audience but management mainstream management right empower us not the word I think I brought that out of her a little bit okay because nothing she could do whatever make her corner than me it's okay I think GMO ended up feeling more comfortable to be able to be silly as opposed to having to always much like if you're a black person and you're trying we've got to call this off and I remember what we did maybe we just goofing off fucking around I don't know what it was like moments on my beyonce's halftime performance at the Super Bowl in New Orleans it as opposed to a time when she was trying to get a consistent presence on ESPN her bona feed as was proven and you know we both can be silly. I'm silly you're she would sam cornea let's see Corny to Lewisville Kishi corny too woman world equal footing right daily daily show where the woman was much star as the man in terms of her opinion right usually the woman is a moderator or a point guard a setting it up there was a point where they know what to do without her which is interesting turn of of her career so in other words I'm saying like there was a you know allows for us to be as great as we were together is our mutual commitment to the product and to each other in general was clear and her passion would be relatively cool and your passion would be just I'm asking you a question but I also want to say you know before our show at ESPN that I'm aware of her again I would love somebody correct me if I'm wrong they may there were other women both of us were equally as committed to the details of the show and the design to add to the mix it was we were both hungry we were both like trying to come up trying to you know we both climate same ladder to same wrong in the same ladder just from afar at one point sending me get together realize we got this incredible chemistry but I think the thing that more than anything who were commentators respected commentators I think Jackie macmullan who's who means the world to me Baker Christine Brennan but never had there been a show with a man in this audience at appreciate it if he could be comedic and we could be at the same time when I asked where we got an the Moran really took off when I think back on on my co-host accepted and whereas not that long before before she got on numbers never lie I remember her telling me that she sat with a member of management who told her we don't know what to do with you and fire to make the show as great as it can be I felt like also we will committed let me just make one other point is the more important point we were committed to seeing the other ones see and so but on the other hand like milk because it was like the next episode yes it came back with Pi it's like so what we was invested and the other one being great as we were invested in our own greatness I felt like I mean her passion for for sports I think Jamal eventually got so comfortable own skin to where she can eat grow shit where she could take a swig of a forty two what she and she can let out she can loosen up a little bit one time I was I was kinda emulating I was kind of getting into character emulating a sports figure something and not got carried away and after a piece of paper we've been having this conversation there if you don't get it we also assume that our audience was sophisticated enough yes that eventually pick up on it yes like a marriage very much so there was an ongoing conversation or so like I think about like the references to old boy which is like Oh we've talked about it x not quite the same so say to illustrate that we never truly got a chance to be full cells in that space moments of laughter of Levity or whatever but I wouldn't say it was ever popping not the way look how much fun look at look at how you just said I remember that I remember that and for a number of reasons but initially it was because it was culture shock on both sides because you know sportscenter on both sides for show I don't know we had flashes we have flashes some shows with better than others some segments were better than others him before correct we don't talk about him every day every once in a while you also didn't care if the audience we also not didn't care right we assume that the audience was there for ongoing conversation in the face I remember there yeah like that type of thing like I kind of go too far and you immediately apologized because I knew fucked up whereas it was in that moment that he knew internally notches both sides of the camera in terms of us and the audience so sportscenter they got a very established way of doing things and so so we had moments like you mentioned a different world open and the first show was like hey we had our first show but it was stressful still but appropriate name his and hers because it was our show that was our shit our baby okay we were responsible for every line of the Rundschau in e we come both in terms of style but also approach because on his and hers we it was it was it was Ooh the Sillier I got she picked up on Q. so much unspoken communication when it came to hey I'm gonNA take this far because I know how she's GonNa react to this I mean lotteries topics so yeah there was there was definitely and we played into it too yeah like I mean it was in performance or put on but I also understood the brand so I I mean I don't mean she couldn't get hyped Oh and she got high but it but it was Alfred we made for good balance rain and also go to the silliness thing too I remember engaged the way for the man ray so that happened before so I set out to say I think also again I don't want to speak for her but I think through numbers never lie and then when it was renamed his and hers they're ready to wear feed even crack the science of color so you can sparkle in pink white and blue check them out at light box jewelry dot com slash entrepreneur and wellness and uh-huh yeah yeah most to level of outrage how could that person have done that that game was so great it was definitely a fire and ice elements yes yeah yeah. PS taking inside baseball you being TV guy you know what it is at home that's the that's the application that that that is used to put together this new movie coming out you figure out what you're going to say about low or no it was verbal you this is what we're talking about today cut this video Lhasa who we want to have on the order in which we're GonNa talk about it this is how long we're GonNa talk about it producer was taken direction from you yes okay this six so we did it go well for a week was it was it was a poppet there's going to be different but we came in there so this is what we're doing and they like what well this is how we do things here and so there was some tension at the beginning together a show on my show Jerry single contact on when I was doing the cycle yup the producer which we want his nurse thank you very much eh but that was kind of like the personification of like I kind of like I want to do that too far when she was kind of like the cool calm collected she was the grownup so to speak right what about his and hers do anything sportscenter that means they are I remember that well I mean some things with moment will you like I remember that rare in we've we well it even that was his and hers that was his inert when you get to the six it was different so our expectation was so if you were if you've never seen I'll show you just tuned in and you heard me talking about Oh boy you know what I was talking about what's up Shit shooting in the gym but we you know I was like we gotta have my list but the producer would come and say so this is what we're talking about today this happened DC this happened in Syria people to produce sportscenter from the previous leadership group from was it Lindsay's Arnie act before you say it was I don't know if it was the same staff like but I mm production team that had some people with us but they weren't in positions of authority the leadership leadership was was the leadership brought in there wanted a certain coordinating producer on our show didn't get her they gave us another guy I had a pretty good relationship with Jamal didn't really know him in that spot so in terms of games at six pm you can't talk about yesterday's games no news most days no news has broken during the day but that wasn't a problem a- As a rough day I don't know if I can pinpoint brought president at the time wanted to reimagined sportscenter he sees this brand is this this emerging brand on Michael the new cycle no pun intended is that it's a weird in between spot but that said we always knew we had to be I not last on a topic now it was also a time across the board for Linear television right the you know technology streaming lot news tropic was moment or wasn't on camera but I'll tell you the first time we knew where this might not be what they told us it was going to be like we got the impression both in Golvin watching what we talk about you okay and but also have significant say in staff going back to that we terms of word and contract that we would be able to come to sportscenter do exactly what we were doing on his and hers we like sure yeah we take it over sportscenter and ran amok they asked us to do sports center because they need to breathe life into that brand impart because not only only way to being elected like news popping ratings wise right and so across the board ESPN struggling with ratings but sportscenter they want Johnson into the staff and this is not this is Jay we're doing the rundown where you not so sick they don't they don't take kindly it's up in still has some legs at six certainly address it but we were always the first on stories and we were quick enough to adjust and we did it at noon to we were quick enough to adjust one thing but I can tell you is probably day one if not before they weren't probably was just in in meetings and discussions in rehearsals I'll tell you what it was actually I'll tell you I'll tell you what the first it was basically to call bill parcells we will trust we were cooking a meal but we couldn't shop at a grocery shop for the groceries and so when it came because at the beginning of numbers never lie the producers didn't understand that the best avenue to success is to get out of the way and follow Michael's lead to talent telling them what to do so going back to the numbers never lie I gain that atonomy through attrition lead and we were in lockstep and the stuff I was saying was being echo by her and vice versa they were like okay and then we had a producer these two negroes an accident or come to the show you saying they gave you the Chitlins people no no no what I'm saying is people think we just bomb rust and held up the spot and usually as current as anybody like we we all six am on here that's that's why the Tory that's why they the two people that like oh it could be this could be something here let's put him on sportscenter but part of the reason is to your point and as a very observant on your part and you because you know just to what happened at five fifty five and put it in the show so what was the first moment that you're like ooh like the first like real pothole in the road there's like and so when there was tension when it came to just creative vision immediately in terms of what we wanted to do in the show versus people it didn't it didn't translate to the six because they come in part in part it will tell you the other reasons why but in part because sportscenter there's producers and the people were trained in that area had a certain way of doing things we tried to come in and run and shit talk floats all boats so don't get in your feelings or feel like oh well I my performance Buddha's right everybody what it'll be spin offs Galore that's the goal we wanted to be a place where not only talent but producers came and grew and people started plucking him off a successful product that we wanted to be but again talent there on sportscenter particular they're not accustomed talent taking ownership of it I mean there's a general here's an earth became great and it became for my money I'll take the Pepsi challenge this is the best show ESPN overhead I'll take the Pepsi challenge it may not have been the most viewed it might not have been the most it might not have had the most longevity hot could nobody fought us we knew that it was hot nobody can talk with us because they are still trying to do what we were doing then I wanna do like you said at Msnbc whereas like hey this is what we're talking about so there's just a difference of opinion ma I'm of the opinion that if you're GonNa do a show ways ago right like we know how to put together shows but they don't like being told what to do as and I wasn't do so when was it like a we had a car crash like that that was a bad day and this is really going badly now okay I can tell you one example the bout I don't care it was idea it is I don't care who's right let's just do the right thing and do it to the best of our abilities and the rest will take care of itself we'll all get you ought to be able to produce this segment and this is my segment I need to be able to get promoted to to show producer and segment producer coordinating producer in and in my body and I won't named wit album he's at F. S. one now is my favorite produce I've ever worked with at ESPN because he understood that do want to do and so once we did that television bias against talent in a way where it's like you beat a nice pretty host put remember broadcast news he yup behind the camera and in front of the camera let go tough real tough day 'cause Walt Disney we print money we never had you know that isn't just talent rotating in and out every day but if you're gonNA do a show where it's with Michael and Djamil Polish should do what Michael and his Mel WanNa do with about a thirteen minute thirteen minute dialogue about the layoffs uninterrupted thirteen I don't know if it was the first time but actually one example up there we didn't handle very well and we should have done we should have done better but it was like the first time we were like oh we're not in Kansas anymore pillow makeup show right here we are the smart one exactly you guys are just so if you wanna like run the show is like Whoa we're right it and we just bore our souls it was raw it was personal it was emotional we didn't like is because in some cases they were doing it wrong sorry and I'm not here super coach it not here the whole Jay I'm not here to be nice about it we try to get shit done arising sorry we arise why did you why why did they get to keep their jobs and X Y and Z still there they should be fired so that kind of like added to the emotion so we wrong way shout out to Keith sweat and so when I was like when I would step in and try to get it done a certain way it was because we had a relatively young state I think it was march of seventeen April something like that forget spring and seventeen massively SPN Jan hundred people on the show and remember I told you how would dictate not only what we were talking about how long on his and hers and that sort of thing so we started sportscenter reloaded alone self-serving television whereas about us where we assume people care but not really and so that was a moment oh that's it it wasn't that big of a difference because we journalists aren't crazy if the Lakers and clippers are playing in an hour we weren't trying to talk about what happened a lot of people took it as an excuse because we already lightning rod a lot of people on the Internet and social media which I should have to pay as much attention to but I did I was promoted we'll be there will be we'll be the dallas cowboys all y'all get jobs off this show we do it right. The nineties cowboys Jimmy Jazz System was getting head coaching jobs down if we where we had to call it into the office like that's not what we're looking for here we have gotten away with that on his and hers when young and dumb two years ago three is a lot of people took it as opportunity to make it about us right why didn't you fire at ease too us again we were in the midst of because we were still getting Kinda like dragged into it so it was just a but thirteen minutes on anything is not good television once they did the show got good once they and then with Jamal came aboard to show really got good anyone just became just me and Jamal and both of us took the he's like that we're tightening the belt or downsize streamline they might have touched other industries and other companies have never hours tough emotional day also quite frankly the biggest takeaway from all of that is that there's ESPN sportscenter and airs. Everything else I left I left last month I was fifteen years you know Jamal was there for about ten or maybe twelve I forget what she got that got that on four it's just straight up racism where you see people maybe inside definitely outside saying you negroes should you know in the business of trying to tell them what to do I just wanted it done right see detail story it was an hour or my way or the highway it was a right and like sportscenter is the brand if you fuck with the brand you got a problem and so like stuff like doing thirteen minutes the cry but like we just got into and I got into like man this is must be I relate to athletes differently now because like when the coach gets fired in their family we just went in was there an on air and it'll be squat always renting on television if your talent yes yes yes how much how a lot of it is presumed and the thing about racism is why people like to make you feel but when we got on sports I remember asking because one of the things I knew was going to happen I knew it was going to happen I knew that there was going to be some false advertising involved in people whoa so I wanted to rename the show sportscenter presents his and hers when Michael Smith Sports or something it'd be pissed in other words if on a Friday McDonald's is serving hamburgers but on Monday they start serving pizza gonNA problem at McDonald's sold you're in the wrong for recognizing near racism of course racism got nothing to do with you being black what do you mean us right Friday if highlights in all Monday is fight the power was there be even more races by assault my intelligence and that's an inside the building conversation that's a that's a viewer more Internet com here's writers I we we were journalists like like rent journalists so when it comes to telling a story and organize them how to do that's what we keep mouth shut and not a lot of it as you know is more subtle than that of course it wasn't a whole lot of flat out you know YouTube porch monkeys it wasn't a whole lot of flat out Italy's and also to be honest with social media particularly I had to kind of insulate myself from it after a while because I didn't distracted by a lot of met at that that made it clear was not your grandfather's sportscenter I was coming on again and I was so now sportscenter keeps the lights on your host who got cut he relate really hurts lots of people I can't remember exactly who was in that round because lots of people that we knew like I've been cultural disconnected but here's the thing no man whether it was racism or not and I've come to realize this and understand this is that it's just the wrong place title six so probably probably like time she left which was before you do them out on basically we've been there we've seen a lot of people come and go close a lot of people so it hurt us but also to association inside the building nobody actually setting out now racist Shit but they just settle let's just call it a cultural disconnect any let's say anything if we have time but let me just say this about what I would have done differently dance your question about now racism because look in trump's America three picks in particular one Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the Olympics in one thousand nine hundred Mexico City and two other wrong time and the wrong time frame number one if I had to do all over again and by the way let me just say right here in our pre presence of those pictures as some kind of statement of defiance defiance resistance and disrespect to the current President when I certainly didn't intend proud to have met the president and his wife dawned on me that I'm more than sure people some people perceived we had so much autonomy or what we thought was a Tommy we decorated the set with repopulated populated the North Wall with personal pictures don't meet other dated I didn't I can't believe I didn't even think about this you also that dawned on me just dawned on me the other day as I was thinking randomly so when we first got there we oh pretty and he can read the prompter do we do we sometimes we would be would make fun of it like we are stupid hosts oh how to do it got an annuity being black come on why are you bringing reasons of this motherfucker 'cause you be racist and you know it and don't insult my intelligence don't a bit like Mrs Obama asked me how how was I feeling after my time selected me when I missed a month's shows when I saw the White House so I was it back and forth on losses thing now dog didn't y'all got it twisted they might have your name on it but his are shit how much y'all written this show we all own it y'all xers were pictures of both individual pictures of me and Jamal and our significant others hurt soon to be husband my wife with President and Mrs Obama White maybe people just didn't want to see two black people being unapologetically black on television regardless and I think that has a lot to do with our demise we will be an unapologetic you know something that food on it that's even better thank you thank you they start certain Greens black-eyed peas on the Fox you know so this is Chad go to questions and opera and I have no problem revisiting this I want to say right here now I am thankful five everything went down I'm glad everything went down exactly the way it did and we'll get back to that later but but that's I guarantee people proceeded as how disrespectful because obviously President Obama both in principle and policy is the antithesis of the current enormously but if I could indifferently we should've stayed in a lab longer I feel like we rushed on we were rush on the air our last his nurses it's crazy okay we cool with brock I call it a rock y'all call him as President Barack he'd he knew US check for us on a Friday was regular theater on Sunday you got two people on TV. I mean six o'clock sportscenter like daytime talk show to be their way fucked guy and everything but I I didn't I didn't that was not the purpose of the presence of those pictures I mean it wasn't what I was trying to I was going for news or pictures of sports icons three pictures in particular I'm like Oh wow I bet you that pissed a lot of people off I bet you we're way for May interviewer needed to be eased into that that was that was his poor decision making collective or center has always been I've been like I I show every single day so his same personality every day most part but there were also times when there were certain consistent personalities and certain time slots I mean the other shows took their time to figure out what they want to do and rehearsed and trauma era behind the scenes we rust on the air and we did a disservice to the viewer end else now for us I don't know about his we've ever for me I was just proud of their picture no doubt the president used to listen to his I know that the president listeners and watches nerves right MVP super bowl that year and then we're talking as they had thomas on the couch it was it was it was it was ellen degeneres show six what is this I'm curious tomorrow we're going to do tomorrow when did you start planning the next day that night or the next day immediately that night the night because even though again we talked about the time slots we're GONNA personality in today's Stewart Tomorrow's Dan yes yes you never know who you're gonNA get Linda Yeah but it's Flynn show with Keith and Dan I believe it was at six with Dan Patrick six o'clock but Rich Eisen and Stuart Scott had regular time slots like even now standing neil through the overnight is there is I think there was a cultural disconnect with viewer and with management certain and especially when there was a change in management but but let me raided but if let's say that I did maybe I put that up there because it was just it was us it was pictures the bus from our skills it was about us and so my point is you get in I usually got in by probably got on campus probably about nine ten to Mike that we would meet at twelve or it might just be a general tweak that we WANNA make today execution of the show did you look at the ratings all the time never looked at writing really tricky so that nights at night events didn't necessarily lend themselves rex o'clock the next day there's still might be something that happened that would have carried rich boys I maybe wouldn't have but maybe would've put the picture up there I wouldn't have the picks in the first place but if I had won the whole thing you wouldn't have that picture we wouldn't we wouldn't have been off but even before I got in and we always on the clock because again I felt like and this is the difference with what they want to be versus where we were we never stop all right there were city shows that rated high you have an grace's didn't you don't have a direct relationship to the ratings is not like if I work hard also ESPN love to tout an increase in ratings when we were gone they love to tout that now we were made aware of the narrative that our ratings were problem use those words very intentionally I don't believe I don't believe in ratings good for you because he had told you the ratings sometimes and there was a lot of people that were from the sportscenter silo I mean one thing is that with his and hers at a twelve o'clock you can talk about yesterday's thinking about the show it's not just what time I got in its time I let everybody go home so I was calling meetings that went until seven thirty eight o'clock after I don't I don't like ratings for a couple of one I don't like that in my head because I don't think that's a false confirmation or that you're doing something right day's news flow and then also you right now that's it there are people more sophisticated than me on this subject who would probably beg to differ maybe six o'clock maybe maybe the ESPN consumer was so used to seeing a certain type of show at six that whether it was racism sexism whatever it is inconsistent with that philosophy I believe it's an oversimplification to say that sportscenter is better because Mike and Jim Melwert goal I think they're doing things differently than it will be better if I do this it would be two thirds of it has nothing to do with you right you're leading and that what time you're taking breaks that particular to me another reason why I don't like ratings is I just feel like if you do great television the ratings will come I also but but and so yeah maybe they're doing things that are better served are better form of serving the fan in that time slot that may be true and I recognize that exports and ended southbound what we did wrong we'll go right into a post mortem right after the show every day and talk about what you did wrong what we what we did right what few things we did right and what we could our style of television in there just wasn't what they were looking for and that may be fine that's fine and I may be fine that's fine that may be the case what I'm saying is to the people number sixteen we want air by February seventeen get up was in they weren't gonNA get up for like two years high noon they will late night sports sedan malet that's a little different but no but I mean like it's not about just the fact they were consistent people that we came on and he's giving our opinion and then it was we're talking to I think it was James we ask that we should have we should have sprinkle those things in over time so shocked the view I'm curious as to just your schedule the White House but it wasn't while put that up there I put up there 'cause I got a president who was love the president's love senator if I had happened to take a picture with and again it's a certain segment of people whether it's physical persuasion or political persuasion there's a certain segment of people that love to say the show got better when y'all left but I don't think it's as simple I know it's not as simple as US leaving there are other factors no no no different than there have good life insurance you know if anything should happen to you everybody you love taking care of coverage but it's the perfect moment to reassess your life and your life insurance needs to properly provide for your family you need ten times the life insurance so if we're telling the history of the show and I want to say is there a big benchmark before the tweet that we it's not tied to your job in minutes you can compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price and they handle all the paperwork and the red tape you get the good stuff Clai and just a couple of minutes because policy genius is the easiest way possible to compare and buy life insurance which allows you to sleep at night because when you're looking at your workplace benefits this month double check Your Life Insurance options make sure you're getting the best possible thing and then put apologies dot com to get close and even if you leave your job so that's a good thing and policy genius doesn't just make it easy to get life insurance they also can help you find the right home and auto insurance look is covered you get through your jobs your employer is leaving you uninsured people that's where policy genius can help Paul Genius is the easy way to shop for a life insurance plan we'll get back to the show in a second but it's the season to elect benefits through your workplace most people know open enrollment it's decision time for healthcare cost in terms of what was told to us there was a commitment to CNN's through so I thought okay we're not we're struggling that's okay we'll figure it out we got time to figure this out a- another over-simplification to think that the tweet was the reason why the show was reason or even if it's a big deal in the the ability to sleep at night because you know you and your family are covered God forbid anything happens the life insurance you buy policy genius stays with you talk about or given what we've talked about is like that's the next chapter no I think I'll kind of get ahead I'll answer that and get ahead I think it's a it's history of the show I mean it Kinda it Kinda accelerated the process but the show that the show from the beginning looking back on it I know we're talking this is this is there something else going on here whether it's whether it's race or just our our our society's desire just to re also too we got way over promoted I I can't even listen to rob as an easy rock it takes to know more commercials ruined that's all for me so like I was just so like on on defensive I mean we were getting a lot of shit from people like I know what we can do I know how we work I know I know how good we are trust me lived in television yeah all the good TV jobs I had there was a big leadership change and then I felt it and other people download felt like you know or they didn't understand we knew they didn't understand what's GONNA come with putting to black people on TV at six o'clock on sportscenter and letting them be unapologetically black they didn't know what was coming and they weren't prepared they weren't built to handle it okay but the real difference in the show came when it was a management or leadership chain the harder critic on me or US than I am so not I I'm sorry you're not gonNa tell me this is bad when I see everybody I see people doing we do like I may have and this was so fucking obnoxious I may even sit on the air because I was so fired up at the shit that we were getting online I may have been set on the air we're GONNA be for three more years because again not at three years so we're able to guarantee it three years on sportscenter in our contract and so I was like yeah we're going to be a fucking obnoxious but but the management change there's a difference I manage and I think it was like you know and John so it just creatively the new management had a different vision of what they thought sportscenter should be and that's that's fair you're a new general manager comes in that's not our guy we didn't draft him we're not hitching our wagon to your mistake I mean look you know life right I've I've so I was frustrated me because it wasn't what I signed up for because I never wanted to do that kind of sports center so did the new management tell you you gotta do things different told us but more import more than told us just started you leaders like enough of you going to try because like you said you don't get credit for doing things that the previous Guy Koran correct you anyway so I thought we were going to be worked through it it was pretty clear that ESPN was not built to take that kind of heat that they were I'm like Oh God the commercial one more time like we were built up like we will come in reinvent the wheel we will go re Reinvent Sports Sports Center and sports coverage in general it's just too much so you know nowadays if you think about it the most hyped them people aren't arrested that sucks right we got way too much right so lamenting the day the date at that North Wall I told you about that was poplar without pictures one day pictures next day it was plain dippers resignation was really to end because John Skipper was the guy that put us there and he was the guy that was our champion advocate whatever you WanNa call it for your innovation that you also are not about to lose your job right for his lesson Mario's put so the generic you came in and it was just blank when blank but just like yeah just generic just waiting you had been told that the set is going to be changed no there's nothing to do with with with our work it's like and then now we're being told to do a show that we never asked to do in the first place we're doing the traditional run of the mill sportscenter and not the show that we wanted to do you see if somebody who knew me could sense my frustration what is that I think I know that I let my frustration affect my professionalism at times like you talked about on the Air Yeah you ah I was very frustrated because his and hers was my baby our baby the six was our grownup baby and my chiefs this player it is quarterback in the first round and this head coach. Bill's Assistant Moronic quarterback well they don't win and two years later to get at the time because I thought here I wanNA say is that I'm glad you I thought that even when in early struggles that we will work through it because contractually and so so the tweet drops I mean it was not an unusual tweet for what all sorts of people like myself and others were saying Ernest Shit twice over right right so I'm like it's not good it's not as good as it can be because of factors that have nothing to do with us or perception or is my it was a blatant and I don't think the average person noticed it but you recognize it as somebody who's watched me that my my energy is high yeah what point did you realize like people are taking that stat seriously very beginning I mean it was it was well because I'm co hosting with the big elephant in the history of Television as macos biggest elephant in the room in the history of television was my kohls those two weeks you were like where's our pictures that was part of that was the first signal that like a new town his name is Reggie Hammond Okay Party's over punching bag. ESPN had fought this narrative I'm going to say since they gave Caitlyn Jenner the Arthur Ashe courage award at the yeah but I think it's a but also to you gotta go back everything is in context we were already a lightning rod okay we already the you know what I mean so no and it was like it was just a different vision a different way of of WanNa do it and so if I another regret that I have I was like okay you know and I'm like and also too I still feel like way more people have focused yeah so but after when you were alone up there I could definitely see like this is not the guy I know this is not the guy I like watching it's not the same he's worn year that we were a left leaning organization that was too far into politics right Yup also this was the height of Colin Kaepernick's Uh I'm not saying I've been persecuted more than anybody else in history but I'm saying this is a unique set of circumstances that our president because we live in an unprecedented times be the behavior of this president will win not water was wet yeah it was not a unique sentiment others had said that correct but for some reason for her at blew up yeah how did that visit yes it is because I feel we didn't have any left leaning liberal policies I thought there was a liberal bias in the General Colin Kaepernick Conversation and Michael Smith having that conversation what perspective is Michael Smith GonNa take it will canes having that conversation what perspective took it happens in sports all the time happens in every walk of life but I'm speaking because I live I work in sports like okay this this this general manager draft yeah yeah and that's on except that we're not as loose and fun as you were as at his and hers you could tell I was pissed where my emotions on my my sleep well I don't want to get ahead on the act of hitting send on tweet in the sentiment of that tweet and the accuracy of the tweet and like you said that I thought that was given that we all knew this ray so you elected she's the best in all the television it wasn't because of our ability 'cause I'm sorry to give it to black people them jobs off because good looks cute I mean we asked to come here y'all asked us to come in you paid handsomely to do this no doubt about it but I didn't WanNa do traditional sportscenter so my regret is well started saying my regret because they nobody nobody ever done television with the president talking about the talent on television anybody done that before but let's not in this time I mean come on and I'm not saying like old is going to be a much more of a liberal viewpoint being a spouse it doesn't mean that that's the company stands it doesn't mean it was not conservative opinions as lefty that's the narrative that were left leaning or they're left leaning and and political which left leaning is code for you got too many black people women on television talking that's code for that conversation of ESPN I didn't mean to General Compensation vsbn the conversation being had on espn like like just the general anchors I'm saying is it wasn't just got on this because I'm saying I'm going back to the context of wider tweet was so explosive is that ESPN whether it was there were those of us who are willing to take stances and other people want to stick to sports I don't know what their political affiliation was but they weren't built for that okay and that's fine that's everybody's personal choice defeated is all kinds of things going on that I think was kind of build up of this narrative and a tipping point was the tweet so I think it was by whom would would anchors black and black people and women like it was jazz skippers mission was a diversify talent on ESPN right there's a the reaction to it it was like well if I recall correctly I may get the details wrong it was like well here's a statement you know we're not going to how cozy we were both the previous president previous president was a huge sports fan who filled out his bracket on our air we didn't tell it off may SPEC- you with him yeah we're not we're not gonNA punish her which ended up being more of a controversy because then you had dilemma was out you know in terms ally okay wait a second I mean I would I would have thought that he had said some things that would be left the I would've I'll put it this way when it comes to talent when it comes to the talent to express opinions I'll put it this way she needs to be fired so it became a bigger deal so yeah it was a perfect storm of events so again I think what's going on inside your eh also talking about a black woman which we know black women are targets in general but especially about its occupant in the White House and and also the caitlyn Jenner situation or how diverse our talent got or Cabernet or hot air cover all of it or or just right is white supremacist with the central power five white supremacist. Woody came down escalators stairs he'd been white supremacist he got in office right so now we thing other people have said that and written about it okay GonNa take right so there are a lot more Michael Smith Singer Mel Hills and Sarah Spain talking about issues we're sports society intersect then anthem controversy at protest controversy K. is the perfect storm of events it's Disney it's espn not just our network but like there's a dry bite I'm walking next to you I'm probably going to get hit it come down on your desk so how did it come down on me well first of all I mean we were we were we were joined at the hip his and hers we were wondering the same work product was being doubted and questioned and and and if and if the show wasn't as good as it could have been I did not believe because me and Jemil's chemistry which we talked about in my head you're bunker your offices like the president is talking about US Sarah Sanders is talking about us now the country's talk radio like he's serious I this is really happening like Sarah Sanders is really on at the podium this is really happening about even when a subsequent tweets suspended is like I'm this is both of us and so it kind of felt like it just felt like there was this the it was just like wait a minute I think what was the tweet something like which Jamal Hill at the Mike the Wonder Espn's Ratings Greeny we don't we don't know what I mean that's intentional yeah because the aim he not waiting in those waters he's not waiting in those waters so whether he's liberal or Conservative real it was surreal to have the president I think what was even calling the president he never he never was stay GonNa get on forty nine or memories going from not mistaken the same week that she got suspended resigned sites he's to me how does it look if I go out there and do the show was that look like but also to just they sent him home at three o'clock attention this this this this this heaviness this way it was hard to go to work and to operate as normal and then on top of that it wasn't long I think it was if I'm not me work I'm like I'll be damned if anyone thinks another so it was it was it was a crazy to go to work and so you know I don't but offer Santa about a black woman I'll take it but what else is supposed to do you know it was like one we are aligned as friends to we're aligned insensibility black anchors and rifles doing it for the same reason Mike Elaine doing so we ended up doing a show in that story got out which added six what are we doing they sent her home at three the first day for the first week six o'clock what are we doing when time did the tweet drug it was her early on I never called him that I would call I would always call him to do the resident awesome just not not doing a show and so they ended up you know calling calling couple of anchors who said no we're not doing that because they called but I was I had no choice but to soldier on because I mean what I'm going to do like a massive for two weeks but the I'm going on they're doing a show knowing that every that a lot of people are tuning in for the train wreck they're not tuning in for the sports they're not tuning end from me that tuning in because they know she suspended did the ratings go up in that period there were some days Mike you gotta go to leave and then come back the amount of days that I did television under less than optimal exactly like that before resident that's why you get to pay the big bucks come on now no chance let me take you taking a bullet so it's like I'm I'm right there like that's us our brand was intertwined so leave where the ratings were higher but I don't even if even if they were up every day they weren't better shows and we could have done she wasn't there but I'm just saying if you did tune in you knew what was going on and I think a lot of people tuned in at weren't necessarily regulars it just my point is it became this elephant in the room you know that again it's the show Michael Hill at that point she's a household name right the show would you know would you say it was never the same after that moment oh for sure on every level it was never the same yeah it was just it was just a matter of time we couldn't even we were still struggling at the show right with two people so now I'm trying to execute the show alone and just figure out the the floor Santa's like I said at listen I I got paid a lot to do it and that's an I had contract was my job so when she got suspended for two weeks later on remember throughout the data with discussions and they sent her home and afternoon I'm like wait what are we doing here so it's not like I'm not I'm not doing a show without her on pick on oh three PM you're starting delay doll head on get your makeup done the program let's say the tweet never happened we get with the program and we were going to just do sportscenter the way they the new regime wanted I and I was naive thinking that you know I could make it work or or we can make it work together or or whether it's Mel together or the network we can the day that you refuse to go out I get way more credit than that than for that now should I mean okay it was nice some some on a lot of levels not for me in terms of what I wanna do but not for me and terms of protecting standing behind yeah and so trainwreck if that's I mean there were some days with better and I'm sure at some of the reason if they were better was because of that maybe it was because they were just happy I feel right now which is unplug from the Matrix was she got suspended I think she she realized that this place isn't for me so you saw it coming like I'm not feeling I'm not feeling that she came back a different person different Djamil yeah I mean she came back she came back connell fuel to the fire because now it's like the major no Salom you think they run into the ended up doing the show today let me back to yeah we did the show that evening that's under those circumstances tweeting suspended for cowboys tweets when advertisers got pissed so that just accelerated the process of getting us about the pain did she pull you aside and work or or I could work on myself it was we were done we were done but again we were we were already done before that as we knew it now we got what other factors that the show is successful than just the people on Camera when she came back I mean she was you know not not checked out she's still doing her job but just like you said you saw a different me on the air she was different in terms of the I'm sorry I was toward this show radical operation right that's how she felt and so we were so aligned that and so we were so align though gather no of course not and maybe maybe people but in our people that tuned then I don't want to see if you actually saw the evidence of people tune in to see the show newscasts everywhere Fox News CNN and MSNBC so it's like Michelangelo Ain't there to person desk and I'm by myself and the show we there's a day baseball highlights I don't think that was actually going to happen and so but again like I said that tweet and hosting and again she thinks suspended for the on I don't know I may not have been too far gone by then I don't know if there was any to back in the tube if the viewer was ever going to give us a second chance how it wasn't like it was almost like a relationship whereas like