1 Episode results for "Jillian Government"
#106 - Green Colonialism
"Because of what strawberries Alden dry, it's a place of extremes and that also saying droughts or flooding Ryan's. We haven't Auld culture that understands his old dry place, but we di- really have a site in its management when not even not even at the table. We're barely in the room way down the straight, actually. My name's Brad Muggeridge. I'm currently a candidate at the university of camera and committee my man from north west New, South Wales. I started about tease ago. And my question is how did just knowledge. Mike water-management better in strata. Digits participation or engagement. He's not in the terms of reference were not included up front in these big national studies from an environmental point of view or water point of view or Clark point of view. It's just not a pot of the way we manage these try landscape. If you had land you got water back in the day. And unfortunately for let's have our all people. We were controlled every movement was controlled, and whether we were costs as humans could have been classed as foreign foreign because until the light sixties where average will of strike counted as humans when all the land of mortar was given away out people. We're not part of that. When we became human will Canada's humans in the light sixties all the good land. And all the good water was giving away. So as people started moving off, missions and reserves and looking at wise to be part of the strain society that lift amount for so many years. We didn't have an opportunity land and water was giving away and environmental issues such as the death of the dialing river and have a thousand Colombina blue green algal bloom toxic to animals, and also, you know, it can make you pretty seek as a human head a reform process. And they brought in a a cap for the married. Allie bison and still aboriginal paper went pot on the management structure, and when they reformed water what I actually did was separate land and water. So that became too into these. Landed it. He's a commodity and its Borden, solid laced. And so water became a commodity that you get actually buy and sale on a market, and I suppose for aboriginal paper, we may have got land through silent rights. Excellent access to land through ninety toddle or actually just purchase land as individuals. And so if we average people wanted water, I've actually got a gun now to the market by it. And when when you're in dry times because it's Michael driven. It's very very expensive. The stories and the songs is about connection to land and mortar the dream time stories the song lines that link. They're all linked via water in this strand landscape side when they separate Atlanta water through the market based provision. You know, a lot of our elders just died get wild you. Right. Lanta mortar. Every human has the right to access clean. And that's not the case in in some of our remote communities, but also in some parts of a strategy some toxic savvy that starting to find themselves in the environment. Land and mortar was taken away from us. And we should have a bit of sign how it's managed. This is think sustainability I'm Jake Malkin. This is part three of series exploring the classism of the environmental movement. Today's episode is green colonialism as climate change threatens the fabric of the Estrella n- landscape. It's clearer now than ever before that two hundred and thirty years of doing it. The white man's way is what put us here in the first place, the expulsion of aboriginal interest-rate island peoples from determining what happens today land and woulda shrouds Weston environmentalism in a murky light government's environmental NGOs and climate research, in many cases, continue to exclude indigenous peoples from the climate conversation this exclusion Brad Muggeridge believes stems from the. Idea that western science is the only science in the early ANSA to out environmental crisis, the academies and western sides doesn't see in indigenous knowledge as I saw ans- because that's it was never taught that way in the curricula and oil is point out that our old people generations in generations. Why before western science was even thought about would doing science are all people that had methodologies which was whether that was the law or the Y of being their songs. They dream time stories I tested, the environment by rates to the environment that had results and ultimately results is survival. But unfortunately, western science really funds at hard to accept it. Because he's no reference point. You know, there's no no one account reference ten generations ago of Moy loyal people talking about the water place, and you know, where water flies where it doesn't. When it comes. You know, the indicators what what he can drink. What would he conjuring? And that's the, you know, the Houston suppose might be walled is it. They don't have to include it. Sorta requirement for them to actually make I project consider digits knowledge with no legal Gatien to recognize traditional ecological knowledge in land and water management. Western Centric, science leads to western Centric decision making where these processes are only further enforced. When those making the decisions aunt indigenous themselves, though when like an ecological management plan is written. It's written from the western white perspective. And there might be a small section that talks about aboriginal culture at culture, whereas science and Wisden bureaucracies cultural as well. This is tenuous soul a PHD candidate from Flinders university. I'm a first generation Y to stray leeann part of my research. I'm interested in how why or non? Digits. Paypal manage their want nece, and how do we behave when working in partnership with everage PayPal in twenty fifteen ten years research brought her to the department of environment water and natural resources in South Australia, where she interviewed six offices in the aboriginal partnerships program their role is to work in partnership with indigenous landholders on issues such as feral species. Bush regeneration and the management of national parks five of them identified as white one identified as being by pollination and European Thint. And they will also five men and one woman the point of the research tenure says was to not only highlight how many white people there are in the south is Jillian government. But to unveil a resistance to the very notion of whiteness and denial. That being white would have anything to do with how they make decisions. What did they make the term whiteness? Ooh. That's an interesting one. These people were happy to speak to me. But they were all the people that were put off by the term whatness. Why because they found it confronting the people that I spoke to report it to me about all the other people that would have liked to feign there. But you know, it didn't really like the term whiteness. And maybe if you turn that down a little bit, you know, you'd be able to start a conversation and easing to a little bit more softly. Did they see the term whiteness as an affront to them? What nece has a number of kind of inbuilt reflexes to protect white privilege things like denial or guilt. People can get paralyzed with guilt white fragility, especially because want people often think of themselves as good people and anti-racist as a society. We don't subscribe to rice, high Triboulet more. But the habits that we've inherited from colonialism remain. And so there's a struggle with acknowledging that we're Aggripa of people who are descendants from quite an ugly history. And we don't like to be associated with what nece because it brings to mind what supremacy and also. Want people aren't used to being racialist? We're not used to seeing ourselves as a cultural group of white people. We like to think of ourselves as individuals and quite often, we think of ourselves as well, meaning individuals with good intentions, and that's part of what nece to is that we see an I'm speaking as a white person. So we see ourselves normal and other people are different and other people have a culture. Did they comprehend exactly what you're saying? Most of them could see it. And that's why they will willing to speak to me, but whiteness has its complex and there's lots of characteristics that were very conscious of systemic issues. They could all really see that they were improved positions, and they got paid for their work. A lot of the average people that they work in partnership, volunteer. So they might be sitting on the board of a natural resource management body, or they might be the chairperson or the Representative of an aboriginal organization. They do that in this bit on. But it was hard of them to see what nece within them. So. Sometimes they kind of say there's no other way for me to do my job. This is the way the system is and there's almost resignation to it. There was another discussion around project management. So when they're running a par jet. So lock a conservation project, the whist and frameworks in the project management is very compartmentalized the jobs that ticked off in a certain order, this funding cycles reporting outcomes that they need to make powder that Wisden bureau Crecy, and I can't see any other way. This supposed to be working in partnership with aboriginal PayPal. But it's not always a partnership. We've inherited a way of thinking that we're at the top of this hierarchy. So when there's a problem between different groups of PayPal, the whiteness gays will look at the other person the other group of people having the problem because they are inferior ago, but ustralia is built upon the denial of indigenous sovereignty, and this hasn't been resolved in a strata. You hear people say all the time. I didn't do it. So I'm not responsible, but a full Berra's. Did it? I inherit the votes the pace sung lines and dreaming tracks. I inherit the systems I inherit the hospitals the schools I inherit everything that has been built upon the denial of indigenous government in the occupation of this land. So in the same way. The I inherited the benefits I also need to inherit the responsibility. Because governments continue to base their decisions off of western science. And because government departments continued to be majority run and populated with white people is the environmental movement in a stray Lya in Neethling racist. That's probably harsh. But you know, it's it's hard for a lot of albums. You know that potentially you're in remote places and around resolved. And you know, in some parts of strata English might be the fifth language challenging the system is really hard. There are some NGOs day that will use indigenous people for their own benefit and that that's sad. If I do that. And they some groups out there that will do it for Jill benefit, and suppose that so much rewarding aspect if it, you know, there is partnerships out there, and everyone is an equal partner, nor does less apartment. Ken, traditional ecological, knowledge and western science work together. Well, that's my next fight. Do also have a part time role with threatens Basi's, and there's some fantastic partnerships between western science researches universities in the log partnering with Trish, Lana groups on country and also the indigenous Rangers at the that a working to careful and bring back threaten Spacey's. So it's using traditional knowledge, but also western science for the best outcome for those written species. While Brad has hope the two can work together. He says without any form of indigenous science network. It's neat impossible to nurture, but other ABA original and tar straight island. Scientists doing let alone know who's out there. We don't know how many indigent scientists are out there that are. Actively participating or engaging in the science by Spital. So in indigenous spice, what does a strong network in this space, look like to you. Will has to be digits laid so have indigenous people as part of the ladyship coordinating at being the voice, but having support networks all of western scientist. Whether we have known indigenous mentos in this spice to help indigenous scientists, but also we need indigenous aren't as mentoring mob as well. So whether that's a collective, you know, you have a western scientists cienega from your community and yourself working together as you support network to build future. Scientists none of that was sort around when I was doing my science thing. We don't have mental on the latest in this spice. On our collective of India sovereigntists in physical environments by botany, but there's usually one or two unite when it comes to say her geology on this three of us. Three indigenous hydra geologists, that's my network. Another two. So they might be more. What we just which Bradbury's is sending the wrong message to the next generation -ill guard didn't think Arkansas it's always told that I'd never be good at science maths. And you know, I bug of that I'm going to have a crack because I enjoy science and same to do. Well, I kinda maths and that spurred me on but other people could be a detriment now just close that door and walk away from the opportunity science, but what we're teaching as well, the curricula doesn't appeal to indigenous people, you know, there's no connections until we start building stuff into the curricula as well. We wanna see more indigenous stories and dream Thompson. I liked the local indigenous language at I school wasn't that taught indigenous studies is an elective whereas the history of strategy from what point of view. He's call. That's the table. We're gonna turn. How do we in the process of intertwining western science and this knowledge ensure that it's protected? That's something that, you know, a lot of our mobs of being put by in the past. So they will be hesitant straight up because they've seen it happen before that partic- someone comes in and might have knowledge about a plant Spacey that has a certain benefit full health disease, potentially a pharmaceutical company might catch onto that tightened it that knowledge is going to make the money, but the truce allina dozen. Shoot traditional knowledge plot now with western science. There are protocols to follow. If that process, he's up front and respectful and culturally appropriate. There are wiser doing it. You gotta follow average people's protocols for once one of the challenges and questions they want answered. And I suppose if you go down that path of building that relationship, you know, you start early you start up front you stop building in these contractual agreements around how you will protect their knowledge. And you know, these researchers need to understand of what they can share and what I can't share. And so the mobs need to be up front about that. While these protocols recognized Natalie stolen off director of the intellectual property program at the university of technology, Sydney explains. They aren't legally binding protocols in need to have force of law for them to be mandatory. And while people will acknowledge an deal with a protocol appropriately. There's no compulsion to do. So on the. Cities under legislation which says you must follow this protocol. And if you don't these the consequences, it's fine to have these protocols in place, but ways the obligated to follow them meaning under federal law. There's no way to ensure that communities who earn knowledge have ongoing earn ship where Brad mobridge argues that this should be step number one. It must be in agreements that the average will pay that held that knowledge will always on that knowledge. So that in the future, the mobile, always earn United be a a next generation that will earn that knowledge. Sadly, we're losing a lot of these stories with you know, generation going to the gripe. We've lost a lot already, you know, even my old people of passed on without passing on that knowledge. There are some gaps out there, but they still an excellent. Out of knowledge that we can access and a treaty is that a wife all would potentially. Yes, Brad points out ustralia is the only Commonwealth country in the world that still has no treaty with indigenous peoples Victoria is talking trading in other got legislation the gave the state to start negotiating treaties. So that's a huge step. You know, they're now starting to conversation about what a treaty would like that's a path that will be we'll be watching closely, and, but it needs the ROY government and the trading should be negotiated locally not at a national level, the married. I will have a similar language that I talk in schools. It's everywhere you go whereas Astrada indigenous people in the strategists seen as digits people. But you know, this hundred fifty plus nations that existed pre settlements. I. We've got such diversity indigenous language and when the sign. About indigenous advisory group we have a body. We don't have a think tank or a national indigenous water strategy. Okay. Saying this someone's going to pick up one day, and you know, we might get the, but again, it has to be digest lead digits people putting down their strategies and the the respiration. We've got to make sure that we're at I table and that title will be supported with credible evidence. And you know, you saw its indigenous Sohn's informing policy, and then when she informed policy and until legislation and why we go save the world. Things sustainability is made possible with the support of the university of technology, Sydney and his hurt around Australia by the community radio network thinks sustainability is made in the two studios in Sydney, which sits on gotta go land of the ordination whose sovereignty was never seated. You can subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for thinks stain ability, and we also have a website to dot com forward slash thinks sustainability. I'm Jake mortem. Thanks the accompany.