17 Burst results for "Jia Tolentino"
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Gee Thanks, Just Bought It
"You got the rugs for your house where you usually do your home decor shopping. So this is this is going to make me sound like a real asshole. But my so. My boyfriend is an architect And he gets like an insane discount. Well that's why you're daytime so he so it was like so basically everything in this house. It's everything in. This house is a handy down like we like one of our one of our really good friends with moving in with her boyfriend and so she just gave us her entire apartment. Basically like aunt godparents were moving from Long Island's of Florida and they just gave us whatever they didn't. You know like cleaning turn the week. We got Super Super Lucky and just picked up like everything in our house is from friends or from fiberglass but we have three really fancy rugs from ABC carpet. And it's so nice and it's like I definitely would never been able to afford it. But Andrew gets this wild discounts awesome. And I've never felt more like just like a fancy as vic that. Yeah you know. It's funny like my. My parents are really practical. We have you know we don't like I think they've changed their furniture like once in thirty years that they've lived or the thirty three years that they've lived in our house. They're not like they redid their kitchen. Like twenty five years after moving. It like they're very much like the you know. We bought a couch and we can sit on the couch and the couches comfortable. We're not really thinking but my mom always. We have the same rug in our living room that we've had since the late eighties and it's it's a timeless sort of just Persian rug. That was probably very very expensive and it. It seems very unlike my parents to kind of buy something that expensive but the way that my parents talk about it is like we plan by thirty. And it's like the same thing as the bad bras and the bad bomb. Yeah it's like a your floor floor Bra. It's like yeah at some point. You can do the math and be like well. I've bought seven hundred and fifty dollar rugs in the last ten years because they keep pilling or they they don't look good right right or you can just spend fifteen hundred dollars on like really nice rug and then be done with it Yeah yeah and it feels so right. It's funny like entering this. Like it is like right around this age right. We're we're all sort of transitioning between like my dresser and this night right at the college when I got it from like you know. Someone's roommate five dollars off. Yeah exactly like getting married also was a really good way to upgrade some of our furniture situation but la has proven to be an incredible place to thrift at. Because they don't see they either have so much. There's so much material. There's so much stuff that they don't they to just move stuff out so it's priced differently but like the chair that I was telling you that we bought that I sold was like twenty dollars whereas I know if I walked into like a housing works in Chelsea and New York. They'd be like that's I'm like vintage and it's two hundred and twenty. This is someone's old chair like we're not. I'm not paying more than twenty dollars for this but it is incredible to see. There's like some really good stuff if you look hard enough and and then you just have to get into the of maintaining it but like a rug is your lifeline. And unfortunately there's numerous all left in the world but I have this one canham selling it for two hundred dollars. Yeah anyone wants to know. It's it's really funny. I'm looking at now on the. Abc Home and carpet site. Yeah these are so expensive. I mean they're like literally fifteen thousand dollar on here. They're crazy but it is sort of like I get it there. Rich people in the world who think like you know of course a fifteen thousand dollar rug that make sense to me. But that's not who I am but like I really think there is there is. This is definitely the age where you learn. There is a difference between something that cost one hundred dollars and something that costs one thousand dollars so if we got the cheapest rugs and then we've got the you know what it's reasonable it's also your home and you and you're planning on like who wants to change every two years you're going to be there for a while you're going to have like once you have your kid. You're probably going to be. There are a lot more because yeah it's there's more room and get an ice rug and like anyone else out there listening in their single. Just start dating architect. They're good deal to be the furniture desks. That should be in tender. Like you should have to live like all of the perks that whatever your job affords you thank you so much for for coming on. Gee thanks just bought it and singing the praises. This was very very fun and thanks everyone for listening. Remember that you can follow. Gee thanks just bought it on instagram. Where at g? Thanks just bought it pod and we also have a phone number where you can call and give you recommendations or ask questions and you might be featured on an upcoming episode of the podcast. The number is four two four two four five seven three six. Jia tell everybody where they can follow you And where they can buy Trick Mirror if they have not read it already. Oh I'm Jay Tortellini on instagram. Ngo Tolentino on her and and the owl once. You know once bookstores reopen. If you're buying from an indy right now to keep them alive yes you can get your mirror there by London. LemMe shout out my favorite Indie Louisiana. Which is When I was in I went to Grad School in Michigan in Ann Arbor and there is a bookstore called Literati I.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Gee Thanks, Just Bought It
"That's me knives out right now. I find on knives out like six months later and like a costing everyone being like. Have you seen in theaters like four months ago? You're the last one. But yes it's when you get cited about something I mean. Yeah we do that on this podcast. All the time and there are things I feel like because this we reached a wide range of people. It's like I can guarantee that like something on every episode is GonNa hit with some people but like I can always tell when something is a widespread phenomenon like the revlon. One step that Madison. Yeah and recommended and then the the diamond dazzle stick which is literally just like a tied tied. Stick For your jewelry like it just cleans your ring that I felt like people were emailing me about and being really excited about and it feels like it totally checks a box for my like maslow's hierarchy of needs of people thinking that I gave them a good recommendation and so was like a ninety percent return rate of success. Yeah it's it's it's like they're only a few things in my life that have been like this. Honestly three body trilogies. One of this brought I would say like I. Now have twelve to fifteen female friends. That only wear this bra the same way that I do. What is and like we'll like we'll like slash each other at a restaurant and each other pictures. It's so so I think there comes a time in every in every woman's life where you realize you've been wearing like Shitty fucking Brian your actual size and you know the. The Band is too big and the straps are Super Dingy. You're not Washington enough for your washing it off. It's like it's shaped Craig starting to pill like and you just you just look you look at yourself one day and you're like this is a nightmare and I think for me. It took a long time like I remember when I this is so again. Because I don't really pay attention to what I have rethink about upgrade. I get very often so I can go a really long time. You know like truly in the dirtbag life like when I when I went to Peace Corps. I remember I had this. My best girlfriend was the Super Hot Frenchwoman and she and I like we were talking about what we packed and she was like well. How many bras did you pack and I was like. I don't know to Sports Bras. Two regular ones and she was like. Jia Jia. Yeah I packed fourteen bras. You Know Oh my God like like you know and I realized But then you know I still. I don't even remember. I think I just bought my bras target. You know her. Guess what my guess. What my size was but then. I think this I think around twenty sixteen I was. I REMEMBER. I was working. It was right before I stopped working at Jazz Bell and our office was in Union Square. There was as you're now like right on the between no. Yeah Yeah Yeah. It's like near the dig end right. Yeah Yeah exactly and I got up that morning and I put on my dingy Bra and I like a dingy sweater from favorite. Toni wine and I looked at myself in the mirror. I was like man my books look like Shit and and I. I really like my boobs like I. They're they're really good like they're very. I just I like that and they looked terrible and I was. Why did they look great boots? And so I just walked into the you know and then it was like maybe i. I guess I've been reading like the Osmosis of women's media articles that were like you're wearing the wrong bra size will. Yeah like Oh. I'm probably wearing their on site so went to this journal and I was like I need a new bra help and they fit me and you know my size was completely different from what I thought it was and they like brought me this brought to try on and it's the NATORI feathers Bra. It's it's really expensive. It's like sixty eight dollars I think Which is really high. I mean very very high. It depends on the. What if you wearing right? If it's the thing that you wear all the time you issued so man yeah it's exactly and if and if you like so honestly like I just spend a year alternating between two of them and it's actually a great and cost per us. It's very low and I truly can't tell you like this brought it's like I like friends of mine will text me after I will text me. It'll be like oh I just got it. I feel like I've finally like vibes. Finally understand like how they're supposed to live yet like it's like the reason why it's so good. Is that like it? The band is perfect. It's sort of. It's sort of that really elusive. It's like that feeling if you've ever had sort of like. Is it the plunge Bra? I'm just looking at the feathers plunged and the band is so good that even if you didn't have the straps on something about the structure of the Bra it's like it would stay up and support you all by itself that elusive and you know. There's never and what it is. It's like it's a regular a regular. Bra. That is that is overlaid with a sort of deep the lace netting yet so it's delicate looking. It's like sexy but it's not like not like it's efficient like it's efficient and a super super efficient but yeah but it looks. It doesn't look bad if you're wearing something and it shows a little bit right and the the little bit of like beliefs v. Makes it look a little deliberate and And and so basically like no matter what this what. I've found with so many friends with very different body types and breast sizes shapes. It's like somehow this bre. There's some way to adjust the band and the and the straps so that it really your boobs are just sitting exactly where they should and you know like there's you don't get marks on your on your back or your shoulders your boob from like the under wire or whatever. Yeah Yeah and and and you never get gaping and my boobs like they like. That was the first like my boobs. Change a lot you know. Yeah like do they would just get bigger on my period or whatever like go up and down even a cup size and the broadest always fit. Yup It's just like I really can't say like if anyone is in the well after this is over when we're wearing wearing bras again right. Well it's actually I just went to bear necessities dot com and the notorious feathers. Plunge Bras actually fifty one and it usually is sixty eight so I'm adding one of my carpet now because yeah so on my thirty second birthday. Which was the day before Thanksgiving this past year The nordstrom on fifty seventh opened and it was like a big to do and my friend lives up on central park south and so we were like We wanted to go see the balloons. You know the night before Thanksgiving or whatever but it was so crowded and it was raining and it was just like kind of gross And it wasn't even that like Nice Fall Rain it was like still hot out because global warming and yeah so it was like this cupid grow and we're like okay well instead of doing that. We're just going to Nordstrom and I was like oh I wanted to get a new Bra. And of course like Nordstrom is one of those places where you know a woman wearing like a measuring tape around her neck like kind of like marches right up to you and I was just like you know what it's my birthday like. I deserve so I was like. Yeah I WANNA I wanNA finally know what my bra sizes. And she's she's so totally different than what you. Yeah I thought I was. Yeah I thought it was thirty eight C. And she was like you're a thirty six double D and I was like. Oh yes exactly. I think I had always thought I was thirty. Four C but then in. This BRA was a thirty D. Yup and it was like what yeah making sense but then you realize what you generally think of as my boobs. Don't look like a redoubt. They but they they didn't look like a d before but it's just yeah like I think like we all look at the cup size and we just like gas based on what we think. That Cup size looks great. I mean life if you told me my mind. Like interpretation of a double D is like hooters. Jenny singled out nine hundred ninety six again. Massive Timid Electric Right. Yeah that's not my body because I'm not a size like if you're a size zero with like wd breasts like yeah. They look bigger. But I'm not a size zero so boobs. But they're not like they don't like they're not they're not. It's not super noticeable. Yeah but she looked it. She was very nice. Her name was bow. And if you live in New York and you WanNa go get your boobs feted I like please go to Bo- we literally exchange numbers. My friend and I like Thanksgiving. She's like my best friend and she put she put an Lebron's think it. I think I did get one notorious. I got one chantal Bra. I spent way too much money but it was no. It's our because because you wear them every day when they oh 'cause I also like my boobs and so I have no I don't care I have no shame so she was like what. Can I just see how your Bra like fits and like my under boob? Was EVERYTIME ARMS. It was these signs I wasn't wearing but I feel like Society kind of tries to tell you. It's your weird body like it's like not the bras fault. It's like your rain boobs. Then she put on the actual thirty six double D and it was like they were so perky and there was no gap and and the band wasn't like riding up to my neck and it. Yeah Yeah y'all ever feel it but you should feel really secure. Should never have that weird under boob riding up like everything like it feels like truly after this Bra I was like oh I have never known. I have never known truce day and I was sort of like I mean I genuinely so one of the first things that happened when I was pregnant. Was that like my boobs. Got Crazy like they went they. They got so so beg. You already know your boobs like changing and you're like maybe I'm pregnant. Well my boobs had gotten big in December and I texted a picture of them some of my friends and they're like you might be pregnant dog and I was like. Nah but I was and and then like right after I found out. I think it's I found out it's five weeks and it's seven weeks. I had to go buy a new Bra and I just went back to because I just truly like it was a nightmare and I and I walked into journal and just bought this exact brought to us up. It's edit like and I genuinely think that I will probably be wearing only this broth for the rest of my life like that's how attached I am with. It is so nice. That's a good one. Which one did you get I didn't get this one. I'm looking right now. I have one other one and I really like it there. Yeah they're good. My favorite thing is to wear a black BRA under a white t shirt because I. It's like as edgy as I'm going to get and I think the one that I got him looking through the thing. I definitely got like plain t shirt BRA. I have the plush. I got the plush convertible t shirt BRA. I think I have that one it does. Pretty seamless taback seamless. Also everything is seamless. When you're wearing the correct size because yeah exactly it's just on your right right like you never see the gross lie anything and like it's like I don't need padding or push up or anything and I feel.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Gee Thanks, Just Bought It
"Out of your control and a lot of ways like it's in control and also out of your control like well. We'll we'll be but it's very hard to detach yourself from. I mean I've never been pregnant but I I assume it's pretty hard to detach yourself from this idea that like you know you aren't responsible for the like this existential part of having a baby like whereas like you can do all the right things you can stop smoking weed. You can like not drink heavily or whatever like yeah and not eat raw fish or whatever they tell you to do I have the I haven't eating Sushi. Your body like if this is the first time in my life like thankfully my body has not wanted like. I totally thought I'd be doing glass of wine at night by now but I can't even like you know normally I simply love to drink lots of wine. But it tastes really a stringent like. Yeah and. I'm so thankful for that. But like my was definitely like you know Deli meat and Sushi. Like give it to me so I was like whatever I'll do whatever but there's there's definitely like this is also the first time in my life that I haven't over researched something like normally i WanNa know but you know you start going into it's so so paternalistic and it so like check all the ingredients in your makeup and I'm like I'm absolutely not doing I'm not I'm not. I'm not taking a level of responsibility like the the I'm not gonNA miscarry because because my Mascara has like a fucking salad in it or whatever like it's you know it's it and so I just and so for most things like in terms of I've turned like the figuring out what gear to get part like completely over to my boyfriend. I'm like you have to like I. I can't I'm I'm like not very interested in that kind of thing. And he definitely is good and I and like most things. I've been like you still have no power over this like you can just like try to do. It makes your body feels good on a try to it. Makes your body feel good on a day to day basis? You have no power over the outcome but the only thing that I did was like right after I found out I was like okay. I need a dual. Yeah because I because it's like I I definitely feel like there's I was just like there's no way that I could do this without like a woman next to me. Who's done this before? It's like there's just no And Yeah but you know what zoom is better than nothing? I think it might be okay by August. Yeah that's true and I think that your personality type of being chill and not a future thinker is probably gonNA come in really handy powered are you and your planning on delivering in Manhattan or Brooklyn Not Saugerties. Yeah delivering it. Leonard Lennox Hill and we're beyond delivered but I won't be renting out the floor. Yeah well that's really funny. My I think my grandmother also delivered it Atlantic really. I think that's where my mom was born. No it's it's a crazy time and I'm happy that you're early enough in this in this pregnancy to not have to deal with some of the things that I know. Some of the people that we now are dealing with Yeah I like yeah I feel. It's I feel so conscious of being just low risk in so many areas of life you know like I I think I think that I mean I. It's funny I can't tell I have spent like even when I got when I found out that I was pregnant the end of last year. I you know I felt like I felt worse than I've ever felt in my life for the first trimester and I am but mostly I kept thinking like I'm so fucking lucky that I don't have to stand up all day behind the cash register while I feel like you know like like I have a job where I can be swept pants and if I really need to lay face down on the floor for five minutes I can do it and no one will say shit to me and and and I felt like I think maybe as talking to friends about this last night like I can't everyone was like you'll feel way better in the second trimester and I can't tell whether I'm sort of security blanketed by hormones right now or if they've just kind of return me to my actual self but I feel really like I. I feel insulated by something. That's happening hormone hormonally which is real less. Yeah there's definitely a lot of late nights perspective happening and also like even that you had that thought of like well thank God. I'm so lucky that my job sort of like affords the life that most pregnant people would want to experience. Which is that. I am sitting at a desk and I don't have to get dressed and I don't have to let you know but that was even before this when in grocery clerk became like on the front lines and I'm sure a lot of them are pregnant and I'm sure this is really scary to that. I mean that's going to be so scared horrible. And it's a and and also just worrying about healthcare and like there's all this stuff that I think this particular kind of crisis that we're living through his Yeah Perspective and Yeah. We really are. We really are lucky like Content creation can be done are useless are are are fake jobs Yeah are totally useless jobs I we were just sorry. What were you saying about the Oh I the moment of like the only moment of real spiraling dread. I've had you know the strongest moment of real spiraling that I've had was before I had gone up state and I think it was. I think it was like the the California prime like the VAT week of practice Super Tuesday and and it was like. Oh we're we're walking away from Medicare for all. In the middle of a pandemic that that gave me a level of of of just like unimaginable dread. In a way that is you know is is different. I guess from this specifically that the I'm reporting a piece on like all the mutual aid networks. That are springing up everywhere and the and the question that I've been thinking about. It's like you know mutual aid work. You know whether it's you know like the Black Panther Party doing childcare or like you know the or just like gay communities you know like establishing houses for each other late. It's it's always it's always a signal of state. Failure writer like total state indifference to a community. And right now it's like the the whole. Us I mean so much of the world is lit up it with these networks that indicate state failure. Yup and and it's like an. It's like with all those and it's like the work is both really really meaningful and inspirational and also so so depressing. 'cause it's like like this. Yeah the rigging together a safety net on the on the back of people's willingness to stay up all night coordinating grocery. Delivery is like it's really. Yeah it's it's it's really it's definitely highlighting. I mean I think there are a lot of us who have already been keen to the fact that either are systems were made to be in equal or they are or that. They are obvious. They're ignoring by so many people for being equal and this whole crisis especially happening around voting and that we don't have vote by mail and that we don't have any like anything in place in its twenty and then we also have all these startups that can like create all of this stuff. But we don't have enough medical masks so that like I don't the whole thing is highlighting everything that's broken about this country and that's kind of scary thing for me is just that it is incredible that we have people who are given millions and millions of millions of dollars. I mean think about in a world where like in the last five years we had Elizabeth homes convince people who like fund her like blood capsule that fake blood printer and then and then we get to an actual medical emergency and the problem that we have is that. We don't have enough masks Bellevue. Physicians are on go. Fund me crazy and it's like we've spent a lot of time that like dot com and it's all I don't know I hate seeing how it's all like linked because it's like that's where my anxiety about personal responsibility kicks in. It's like well how many you know but it is. Of course. It just feels the the time when I'm like. Oh we definitely are living in simulation like it's too perfect in some sort of like Truman show. Where like Oh wow like it. Turns out we had the money all along. We just didn't put it towards the right things And it's scary would take a very quick break and we'll be right back okay and we're back so it's yes. It's scary and it's stressful. But I try to wake up every day and just be like my personal responsibility to everybody in this world is to stay home and like that's what I can control select. That's all I'm totally trying to do. And then otherwise I will spire all very weird being like we could not have time this move anymore perfectly. If we moved a little later I think it would have messed up or scared us into not moving. But like I've never ever lived more than ninety minutes from where I grew up so like I and I'm the only person or my aunt lives in California in San Francisco but like between she and I are the only people who live across the country like my whole family is on the east coast. Most of them are in New York. And so yeah at thirty two moving away And really not having a reason to just being like Oh. We wanted to try something new. Both jobs can be done from home. Like this is such weird timing. There's a lot of good about in California being here because there's a lot more outdoor space. There's a lot more SPA Breezy and I'm sure you're getting that upstate a little bit. But it's so strange to not have community here. I feel like if I were in Brooklyn. I would understand how to organize like I would totally be like delivering. Groceries are like organizing. You know fundraisers for specific small businesses are local restaurants or whatever and if you put a gun to my head and said like name five restaurants in Los Angeles. I wouldn't be able to do it like I could probably do. And one of them is the McDonald's that I think the day we moved and so it's very strange because if he feels like I'm stuck on vacation like I'm in a long-term vacation but anyway we're we're like literally twenty five minutes into the podcast which is about buying things. And but I know that when we talked prior to all of this happening you said you're not much of a you consume but you're not much of like product Hawker. Yeah well it's so funny and I'm so glad that I I this. This bra is literally the only thing that I've ever had because I think that's what I told you I was like I. Yeah and then you really have this. Yes yes I like you know I mean but I don't. It's true. I don't really like shopping. I don't know there's some things that I there's are some things that I really like. Shopping for like which is mostly like let's see like plants And Food and some like some like a when I bought rugs for the house upstate that was like the most excited. I loved the core. Yeah Yeah Yeah and it's yeah I like how stuff kitchen stuff ish. The clothes not really like beauty stuff not really and the only close I really like buying are like I should like a a special occasion. You have to get something fancy. I like doing that but mostly I mean mostly I find shopping like this is why I've turned to the baby like my friend. One of my friends sent Andrew like a big long spreadsheet of baby gear. And I was like great. You have to pick like I. I get a little overwhelmed. By the time it takes to pick. You know to to figure out what the decision yeah and and I would be in charge of that but right but the one thing actually like this. This bra that completely changed my life. Wow huge like fowler. It's huge. It's also like it's there are some things you know. There are those things at your. I mean this is what this podcast is. Literally all about things you're with and then you tell your friends about them and then sometimes there's like a zero percent return ray atrium and then sometimes there's like a ninety percent like there was a period last year the year before we're all I could. I would just get drunk and talk about the three body trilogy and be like you have to read it like you have to read it..
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Gee Thanks, Just Bought It
"And welcome to another episode of G. Thanks just spotted the PODCAST. We talk about what we just bought. And what you might need to buy next. I'm your host Caroline Moss and we're recording on March twenty fifth? I'm personally on day. Seventeen of social distancing and. I'm going crazy. I'm joined today across the country by your favorite New Yorker writer and author of the bestselling book Trick Mirror Geo Tolentino Hygiene welcome. Hi Seven Day. Seventeen Well so we hung out with a friend of ours. Who's a doctor? Like two and a half weeks ago and it. It scared me into staying dare you on. I think I'm on day. Maybe eleven or something. That feels like not sure. It's a competition by the way we're all GonNa sink and there's going to be a prize. Well what's I mean like? Normally though it's it's funny like normally I love spending all day by myself. Kind of like you know disgusting sweatpants looking like Shit you know. Do you have like normally. This is a I felt like a year in south warranty and the Peace Corps. Basically like I. I do this all the time. But there's it's so it's really remarkable. How different it is like. I realized that the sense of peace I get from doing. It is like this sort of is completely related to the fact that most people are living normal lives and you know you know. There was a tweet like maybe earlier. What is time anymore? It could have been two weeks ago. It could've been last night but it was like I wanna go back to normal where I'm doing this but you're all outside and I like really felt that this is like my normal like I'm. I'm more of an introvert extrovert. Like I like being inside. I love a day of just watching law and order or real housewives and now all of a sudden that's the only thing I can do. I'm like dreaming of doing things I've never done before like I don't know going for runs with friends out which I which I wall. Ao and we're allowed to do that again. Anyway all I can think about is like going out dancing like I am so deeply craving being in like a crowded sweaty room full of strangers and super loud music. Like like I like I was on. You know have like on a zoom call with with a bunch of my friends last night and we were like you know after this. Are we gonNA stop hugging people and shaking hands when you meet them and I was like or are we just GonNa like fucking make out with every stranger receive also? I hope it's both a little fame. Don't you feel like our our grandkids? Are you know how and if you think about your grandparents is way but this is how I thought about my grandparents because they were like of the depression era so after about this before but like my grandma like you know if it was a ten for ten deal on something at the grocery our she'd have to get it even though she's like one person and wasn't gonNA eat ten boxes of Cheerios. But there is this little kind of like food horder within her and now I'm like yeah every time. I clock swipes. Am I going to be like I got? I have to have them like. Are we have that response? I mean truly like I. I have one thing of Lysol because I bought a chair secondhand. Good well when we moved to L. A. Soleil the beginning of January and Jolie care was like Lysol the chair while you're cleaning because it will and now this can of Lysol means everything to me. It's just I can't believe have this. It's who has ever bought lice Russia. I it's it's precious handed down to my children and right exactly like the special lysol grandma used during the current virus pandemic. So are you and your boyfriend now working at home together. Is that how you guys usually do it? Like what's what's been your routine. It's funny so we've been. We've been together for eleven years but he's an architect so and and we have like a we have a very. I mean we're both one thing that I have become especially conscious of ungrateful for is that we're both like really really really even Keel. Like I think like extraordinarily even Keel. And I'm very glad threat right now but one of the reasons so it's like we we never fight. We've had probably like five fights in our relationship. And that's exclusively. I mean I could talk like eighty percent of that up to the fact that he works like twelve hours a day. Well so we like we like never see each other. We hang out on weekends and honestly for me. That's great because has as many people are learning when you're stuck in the House all day with your partner it is. It's a little. It's a little too much. It's a little too much familiarity so we when I told my book like two years ago we buy a little house upstate and Saugerties and so were there and my friend. Hailey is staying in our apartment and yeah it's like we. We worked from home together. A couple like in Brooklyn a couple of days last week. Just it's untenable like we're both on too many phone calls. It's it's hard yeah. It's not our apartments. Just not big enough. It's a one bedroom. So I'm I've never I've never been I mean. I think I've been spending one thing that I feel like. I've just been spending so much time thinking about and it's a useless thought I mean it's it's it seems like a useless but hopefully it translates into something less useless is. I feel like this. Like of all of the things about life at this era. Which hasn't even really started has has thrown into really sharp relief as I feel like your your particular degree of luck is is so clear you know like I feel so lucky but my editor has two young kids at home and his wife is still having to go into work. You know like I've I've been so conscious of like this is a dream like fucking cruising. I'm just up here. You know looking at a big backyard full of snow and making cookies. It's Jill like. Yeah I'm there's definitely like an element that's like if my biggest problem right now you know if everyone in my life healthy and I can like maintain that my family on the East Coast to staying inside. You know it's very. It's a very stressful time. It's a very anxiety inducing time but like my particular place in. It is not stressful at all like. We don't have kids like we have. Our biggest problem is that there's too much TV or that. Like yeah or that. We don't have enough flour to make the specific recipe is right. That's fine. Yeah and like like it's like global one percent Chilin. Yeah and that's why I think of all of the people I know who are home with kids of a certain age. I feel like the parents of kids who are like. I don't know like ask wiping age. Like like if you have kids like wipe their own butts and tie their own shoes and stuff. You're in a better position but like kid. Parents Toddlers Who Still Oh. Yeah just being a single parent right. Now be so you'd be so it's Yeah I've just been grateful to have a comfortable space and wild. It's just I'm yeah. I'm GonNa Watch a Lotta TV. I'm going to try not to look at twitter and news too often. I've had to cut myself off because I'm like. I don't need to know everything like it's too much. I think like is just too much so I've just been watching a lot of television and animal crossing which I'm really enjoying now Gamer. But you are pregnant. Yeah I'm pregnant. I'm like we tomorrow. Yeah thank you. How is that? I'm very glad that this I'm very very glad that this fetus on the inside and not Davey on the outside well. Andrew and I were hiking a couple of days ago and I did like look at him and I was like God. Damn what if I was like what if we are alone together for like eight months because of this baby. What if it's like us in how I got this sudden like Shimmer of like? Oh Yeah Yeah I feel I feel very very very very glad that that this is a fetus inside me requiring no childcare. Yup and also that you know like eighteen weeks so I've got they've there. I'm probably going to be induced at thirty seven. I have a history of high blood pressure. Twenty ish more weeks and I'm so so glad that I not delivering like tomorrow. You know like all the women who are having to deliver alone like I really yeah. I'm hoping like obviously hoping that's not the case. By the time I go in but I like I really really really feel for women that are having to deliver now until the surge. I think I'm doing August. I feel like okay. That's a good dad. And for those who don't know because I don't know that every hospital or every state has mandated this but in New York New York hospital hospitals have now said also because near hospitals are historically also like overcrowded. Anyway and I did a lot of people. Don't know this but if you want your own private room to the and it's a lot of money which is why people don't like having C sections in New York hospitals because it costs them so much money to stay there but Yes New York. What they're doing is they're saying. You know the the the woman has to come in and give birth without her partner and or their partner and that sucks like that's really very very the partner and the person giving birth and especially if it's your first child literally it's like a whole other thing of stress and I have friends who are in that position and it just. It's yeah it sucks. Yeah in terms of also like in terms of medical outcomes. It's not gonna I mean you know. Look everyone's triaging everything sort of utilitarian calculus but but it's definitely going to be Tara. You know it's like I was. I mean I already assume like I gotTA DO A. I'm totally down for her. To be zooming into my birth which is going to be happening. But even that was one of the like I've been pretty I've wondered in. It's been interesting. Obviously being pregnant during this you know having a body that is oriented towards a particular time in the future in the way that like like need temperamentally I. I never think about the future. I like. I find it really hard to think more than like a month ahead or even like like I've always I've always like and I used to think this because I smoke so much weed but now I can't smoke weed a now and I still have this or maybe personality but like I I find it really hard to be I have. I've always had a lot of sort of systemic larger existential social structural anxiety but in terms of personal anxiety. I I almost never have any at all like for me. I'm always like I. I have zero control over anything other than like literally. What I'm doing at this exact moment. I can't even control what I'm GonNa do in an hour. I can only control it then. I have experience with this way of thinking all revel I mean. It's it's really like I've I've always found it pretty easy to embrace my own powerlessness to do anything other than like literally what. I'm doing at the moment and I've been wondering but I have. I was wondering if pregnancy would change that because it's like like even writing. A book was the first time that I bought like two years into the future. It was like sort of wrenching myself into being LEGO K. Like in two years. You're GonNa like decide that this like this is you're GonNa you're GONNA fix on a goal. Try to also be very like non. It's like non attached to outcomes with book. You're like okay like you want to produce something. Yes and then with this. It's like it occurred to me early on you know this is. This is the most I've ever felt attached to a particular outcome right. It's like you do want to have a healthy child and you don't WanNa Miss Carrie right so like an and and that sort of attachment to a particular outcome has felt new to me but especially because that is it is.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Love Letters
"Love letters is supported by better help online counseling. Sometimes life is stressful. If you're feeling down and don't know how or who to ask for help better help. Is there for you better? Help offers licensed counselors who specialize in issues like depression anxiety sleeping and trauma or complicated relationships which we know a lot about on this show. Connect privately with the counselor through text. Chat phone in video calls get affordable health at your own pace love letters. Listeners can get ten percent off their first month with Discount Code Love Letters. Good a better help dot com slash love letters. That's better help. Dot Com slash. Love Letters. We're back today. I'm talking with Jia Tolentino staff writer for the New Yorker and author of the Book Trick Mirror. Well it seems to me that like in having the conversation about how you do or do not want to celebrate. What could be a lifetime commitment or what at the very least is a very significant commitment. You're basically saying that you're all in your saying I'm all in and yet I don't need this you know it's not like you were just saying this isn't for me. You're not you know you're not saying you're not for me. You're just saying you are for me and in that I do not have to have this marker of of that commitment. I don't think that I had as clear an understanding of my future with Andrew. Then as I do now you know I think it was a genuinely unsettling thing for him to hear when it's your twenty three year old girlfriend saying she never wants to get married. You Know No. You're right now it might mean something else but I also just don't think that much about like the case against marriage. It's so it's to me. It's just baldly obvious the case against all of these kind of what I find to be. Basically humiliating conventions of even a straight couple. The woman waiting around for a man to propose to her. I I find it just utterly humiliating for me. The hardest thing is to make the case for it and I almost didn't include the essay because the me that was writing it was a me of maybe four years ago like I haven't actually had to think that much about not getting married anymore because it's just like people have stopped asking our friends that are getting married now or having less traditional weddings like the whole the whole sense of sort of this sort of unbroken ecosystem of tradition that. I felt locked in when in my early twenties doesn't feel like that anymore and so I don't have to think about it anymore. Which is amazing. I mean in some ways. I'm surprised my closest couple friends who is set up like they've been together fifteen years or more and are not married by choice a man and a woman. She is still in her forties now constantly asked. Are you guys? GonNa get married and I would mostly. It's mostly her called that it just hasn't been of interest to her so it's like any time she meets. New People family members. Still sort of joke about it. I think and so. I'm wondering at these weddings over the years. I'm sure you guys got that question all the time. How did people approach you versus him? Somebody at the Boston Globe actually said to me about this friend will she? Is she waiting like they were concerned for her? And I was like yeah I mean. That's I think that's that's the way that people would talk to me about. Getting married is the thing. That underlined for me. How much even though today? We all a spouse ideas of equality that was the thing that made me aware of straight marriage as a site of gender re segregation right like it was like all of a sudden you would start doing all of these women only events you know there was just something in the way people talk to me about marriage in a way that they did not talk to. Andrew about it even though people did ask him that all the time But in a different way than they asked me it made me just aware of the wedding as a thing that serves a place in culture. It's the most. Broadly glorified that a woman will be in her lifetime which I found so upsetting and so offensive and so sad because as humans like where we changed forever you know like women do people do so much more so many more exciting things than fall in love with each other. I think partly because of me. I think I've always found I've been. I've been really lucky in my relationships and this is part of the reason that like. I'm fully aware that my the way that I think about weddings is predicated on me. Having always felt extremely secure and confident in these relationships that I've had where I just have never seen the need of any sort of formality. But I to me. It's like love is not that interesting. Love is just love is natural. And it's an it's easy like an easy and it's fun and it's not you know. It's not an accomplishment to fall in love with someone and it's not an accomplishment to be to decide to love you know to commit to someone to me. It just seems like the most natural thing in the world scene. So yes see. I as somebody who doesn't necessarily know if I can do that I think it's like it looks like it's something that takes great skill to be a partner. Now that said if that ever happened to me I still don't think I would. I know in fact I wouldn't want to celebrate it in that way but I still feel like going right like it. It seems very personal right like if I was able to pull that off it would be like a private wonderful thing to celebrate with my partner but Yeah but so people would just talk to me about it like in this cutesy way you know like when do you think it's going to be time for you guys you know and like what are you and like it would be so sort of? The implication was that I was laying in. Wait for for this thing and that it would be this grand. It just became clear to me that it was this event that it's the single event in a woman's lifetime where she's encouraged to conduct everything on her terms and after that you know you get married and it's sort of like a trade off. It's this massive glorification in exchange for just this structural dismissal. You know at every level of our like social safety net workplace policies and stuff where get married and then. Their identities are systematically subjugated to that of their husband and kids and weddings to me. You know I think that used to scare me about them. It was just this idea like you'll settle down right like you will reorient your life around the closed in circle of domesticity and years ago. I figured out that that's not how all married people live. And that's not how I would ever have to live if I got married but there was just this this all of these sort of connotations patterns that come with marriage that I was sort of even out of a sort of superstition not wanting to invoke upon my own life You write that. The obsession hatred of weddings. These like two sides of a coin are sort of always a part of our culture Can you talk a little bit about that? So weddings come with. They have this sort of double face the phenomenon of the contemporary wedding. It has this double faced aspect to it. Where they're these two versions of a woman that are conjured by the wedding rate like there's this monstrously glorified transcendently visible bride. And then there's the shadow self of the woman that accompanies the wedding. Which is the woman whose name disappears and and those two things are related right. The sort of tacit understanding that women have to sacrifice so much more to a domestic household than men do is one of the underlying things was one of the underlying reasons why women are so glorified in the wedding. Sort of an unspoken trade off right. I mean it. It's impossible not to be suspicious of any institution where I mean just as an advice columnist so many of my letters are about people waiting for proposals and I wish I could tell you. More of those people are men like anything that's stacked in one particular way and you know I've had this with women friends of mine were. I'm not entirely sure what is tied to the want of that but it certainly is a. I should buy this age. I should be doing this. I should have without the full analysis of of what they want.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Today in Focus
"You still harboring some sadness that you didn't win. The show is on and you went on to study at the University of Virginia and then joined the peace courts in your own words to stop you from becoming asshole but you always need that you wanted to to be a writer you write about actually how you've always written and you've always written online because like me I think similar age thirty yes and we've always had the internet in our lives ready from this kind of formative years and you talk about blogging from the age of ten and kind kind of describe this era of Internet where things were simpler and you made me think about when I east to get this hour every evening on dial up to use the Internet and I would go on amazing world of MSN MESSENGER and I remember the first time I went into a chat room and it was like running onto a motorway and it was really scary and I didn't like it but do you back on that with some nostalgia. Nostalgia is kind of a happier time. When we use the Internet light I think for people our age. It's it's a really particular thing because we came of age exactly when the Internet did and our innocence percents was the Internet's innocence and it's impossible to separate that the Internet used to feel and I don't think it was just like this for ten year olds right it used to feel like a place that you would go and that you could do things in private and you could discover things and discovery would serve as its own private reward which is how most of life is right and it could surprise you and I it could it felt generative freight and you felt free to be yourself and the change from that was when all like now on the Internet. The things that you see are the same things that everyone else is. Everything is intertwined with these basically for central networks. Everyone's what everyone is looking at algorithms early influences what everyone else is looking at and the capacity just the programmatic capacity for surprise has dwindled to nearly nothing. It's like all we have our memes. That's it you know now like all we have our memes and catastrophes yeah yeah and and I think I do feel and there are very obvious systematic reasons for the Internet becoming humming the way it has become it's like it has centralized corporate is brought about how we will present an image of ourselves and you have an instagram account. I Sadler your instagram account. You really fun on Instagram but you have a lot of fun. It looks great. But how do you see that presentation of your self. Is it you or what Jia ah which Jerry we sing when we look at your instagram account. I don't know I feel that the only way that these systems are going to be survivable is if we are actually like ourselves if we are not different on the the Internet and off. I'm exactly the same on the Internet as I am off of it and like I am fun you know like like I think that the idea of performing for each other it's not necessarily leave. It's not in itself a terrible thing. It's inevitable and it's natural. I want it's it's it's built into human interaction that when we in real life we meet and we want to be good for each other the basic you know performance of being a good friend or being a decent person riding in the back of a cab or these are all miniature performances and it's good that we want to be good for each other. What's dangerous is when the Internet's very specific incentives start distorting that so we start performing a different way one that's dictated take more by algorithms goals than personal ones and or if our personal goals start to become intertwined with the algorithm ones and that's when stuff really starts to get dark and so so the only way to handle that is just never think at all about how I'm coming off and just hope that might actual self is fine enough that that will be okay you talk about concentrate. You have a phrase which I think a lot of people familiarized. There is with which is so optimization. Can you explain what you mean by that so optimization is just the idea that everything should be getting more efficient and perfect and beautiful forever this perpetual perpetual improvement and I think that the way that that idea maps onto the female body in particular is really really interesting. You know yeah. I think that there's this underlying implication in culture right now and it is completely just a capitalism based implication. Is that like we exist on this earth to be getting better to always be getting better and it sounds so natural and it kind of feels natural but we aren't actually put on this earth to got more beautiful inefficient until we die but everything about women has you as soon as you read a teen magazine or something when you're twelve you sort of get the idea that to be a woman is is to be facing down the requirement that you continually improve yourself and so yeah. I wrote eleven thousand words about it a lot of things you talk about things. I would find seemingly inoffensive see talk about a fast food a salad bar. Chen could sweet Green Fish Taco Ball Spicy Thai salad our landfill Avocado Bowl. Can you talk about the exercise class bar which is based in Berlin aerobics. I train. I'm all things that people do. All the time is going to get quick lunch and doing these exit clauses in there you know after work or whatever but what is it about those things which you think we need to analyze well as of the Internet right. These are things that I also do. Casually you know routinely keenly without a second thought you know and then sometimes when I would do them there would be a little earthquake in my brain and I would get this deep feeling of existential dread. About what am I being so efficient for you know I'm eating the fourteen dollar salad and checking my email while I eat the salad so that I can get back to my desk in this job that allows me to have the salad and the salad is something that I have to eat because I work so much that I need to eat a lot of nutrients in ten minutes or else. I'll die. The the the doom of it all would really settle on me and it's not to say that like again with all of the things that I all the things that I'm critiquing here. I'm trying to approach them. From a standpoint of pleasure to there are reasons were attracted to these things and they're good ones and with leisure. I used to work above the LULULEMON flagship store in New York. Are you familiar with Lululemon visiting the company that makes a yoga pants that are so tight they cut off circulation to the part of your brain that decides how much money it's okay to spend on yoga and I would just I walked by it and just get these. Shimer's of like it seemed to me that athletes was late capitalist fetish wear which is like a uniform that you wore when you wanted to treat your body like like a market asset that would continue to improve its performance on the market over time and something about that feels so natural to me. I do go to these classes. I you know it's like Nick. Well got to get my head clear that I keep working so that I can keep affording these classes that I can keep getting my head clear so that I can keep affording the you know and it's and it was we the economic conditions of right now they make a lot of what formerly seemed sort of super rogatory sort of optional and kind of beneficial it now is nearly mandatory and this efficiency is mandatory like all the way up and down the income scale you know if you're an uber driver you also have to be monstrously monstrously mantra officiant. If you are an Amazon warehouse worker. You have to be monstrously truly efficient. If you're a creative class white collar worker you have to be monstrously efficient and it's like these industries. It's the whole wellness. Industry is part of this. These things have sprung up basically as adaptive mechanisms to get people to adjust to a world of endless work and you talk about how this ties in with this new sort of feminism that we have now which which encourages all of us to be beautiful in everyone is beautiful which is a great and positive message but also put huge pressure and creates a new standard of beauty which you felt. We just need to escape completely. Well Yeah I mean. Feminism has done a lot of a lot to rebrand old requirements things that we were asked to do for men as has things that we're now supposed to do for ourselves in its feminist you know to be like that. It's really politically important that everyone beautiful which is in one way wonderful in another way like such an obvious trap up. I mostly think it's so obvious that the realm of like this is another thing that I write about in the book but the realm of what's possible is basically unlimited in terms of physical improvement and you know in the states we don't have universal healthcare or paid family leave or any you know our reproductive rights are being eroded by the second and at the same time you know if I wanted a to make myself into a beautiful Cyborg I could you know I could do anything to my body and face and I can do almost nothing to my political life and it's yeah I think it's very very telling some people listening to this my foe quite despondent by the compensation and buy some things right about and you don't offer solutions at the end of your essays to the problems that you kind of raised. Why is that I think that well. It's interesting generally generational. There's been a big difference in how people have reacted like people older than me think. My Book is very fatalistic and people younger than me think tell me it gives them hope the reason that I don't offer any solutions because I am so sick of the thing and riding where where people will lay out this very true extended argument for the the state of the world in structural crisis and then offer then- wrap it up with this note of certainty and path forward that doesn't feel true to what I'm thinking and how I feel and I think when we talk about these things in real life we don't wrap it up with that sense of solution John and certainty we are sitting with each other at the bar and thinking yeah what are we going to do and that to me seems a lot more important with solutions forward. I mean the real reason I'm not offering solutions that everyone's GonNa do whatever they want to do anyway like I'm. I can't tell anyone what to do at best. I'm trying to establish a common language for myself and I think it's you know the solution to all of these things. It's just all on a policy level. It's not like we the so much is set up to make the individual seem so important individual action seem so important and it matters what we do but there are solutions to all these things but they are nothing that I can do myself and there nothing and in its very there so obvious that I didn't want to ruin the book by saying these really obvious things like we need universal healthcare and the states like it's it's so obvious. Do you ultimately feel hopeful for the future for for young women. Yes I definitely do that is one thing that I I mean. There are a lot of things that I feel objectively hopeful about and I mean the fact that like in more freedoms at least culturally have been unavailable to women at with every passing year I absolutely feel hopeful on that. Thank you very much speaking to be thank you Jio. Tolentino Book Trick Mirror is out now coming up forest Johnson's Brexit exit plan.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Keep It!
"Right reasons and there are also some people are fucking president who you know use this ability to who kind of be a wrestling character with their opposition and they you know you can use it to some literally like you know world destroying ends and I I think that the the shift from the Internet being organized around a affinity and you know as much as I don't miss the upward the era like I think even earlier when you think think about the ninety s you know like time. The Internet was oriented around discovery surprise and affinity at the shift between that and it becoming. It's like driving force being that of like like vicious opposition. I think that's basically in that essay. I was just trying to figure out why the Internet used to feel good and feel so bad now and I think that that's one of a huge reasons. Why also like ourselves. Our identities are not meant to be monetize to this degree and like I think that's one of the things that makes us. All feel like what are we doing. It's like the Internet takes this amazing thing which is just humans trying to figure out who they are and just trying to be alive and it monetize it in ninety five different directions till you know there's this low level feeling of kind of like unsustainability in panic. I think yeah if I can just talk about the one thing I really connected with the book. It's that you know. It was the idea of you know. I I've been myself for other reasons. I have been just sort of meditating on the Internet and our place in it and just thinking about even the fact that I feel like if I look back at the older days of like when I started on twitter like like at Buzzfeed when people started to know who I was online like I was not Tammy Laron you know of trying Tommy Lee and whatever her name is trying to be like that kind of opposition but there was some sort of opposition. I feel like in the way that I operate it in the way that you know I would make you know like while jokes about some pop culture topic or like some joke that I know's going to go too far. Were maybe some people like it. Some people will be mad about it and that's just sort of how you develop a personality and person that People WanNa thrive off either following following or they follow you because they don't like you and it's weird that we all just sort of have become a version of that. You'd be successful. I was like that to to being at Gawker. You know working at Jabot which was under Gawker. I mean it was the entire you know. DNA of that website was built on being extremely kind of punchy and in combative to some degree and the thing is that's with all of these things it's like. There's something about that. That's really important right like the Internet is genuinely a really democratizing force because it it allows people to punch up no matter who they are right. It's like it's that's the thing that allowed you know like the there's a reason that the Internet has given rise to did these sort of power toppling black lives matter and no and the standing rock protest rate with the Internet does the way the Internet can put people on an equal playing field all of a sudden. There's also a really amazing thing about it but it's also one of the reasons that the opposition principle has gotten so intense last question. Did you ever wash the show ghost rider. Are you kidding me. I love that show. Oh my God. I hadn't thought about that in years if we're talking about the Internet and opposition. I feel like maybe in those early stages of Internet. The first Internet villain I remember was when Julia stiles played the hacker mad mouse and she was terrorizing during the school. Oh my God what's she wearing something like a beret and a leather jacket. She's wearing like a bath sat in just like your like Wesley Snipes. I like ghost rider. I had all the books of that. We need to wait. Julia stiles was in Ghost Rider Holy Shit. I don't remember that at all was she. Only on one episode all all the episodes. Were like to be a four part episode. Oh Wow wow I gotta watch this think. Oh my God they are Ginger Roger g yeah. I can't wait to see a return to the state. Do you thank you so much for being on Kiva. you know. I love having for having me on you guys. Yes can't wait to see what you write next. I mean because you're you're still at the New Yorker so people can read your work there to you. You can read more everywhere yeah. I'm over exposed right now but I won't be in San. Enjoy the rest of your book tour. Thanks y'all have a good one vitali as most found out the hard way getting into debt is easy and getting out is hard. The mob is trying to.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Keep It!
"It's like she she followed this one family in the Bronx for ten years and it is like it's so full of desire and violence and just family dynamics and it just so it's like the best book about the criminal justice my ready to super spicy and it's super super devoted an empathetic and it's like. I think about reading all quiet on the western front front. You know I read so many books about like you know men at war and it was like why why chaucer why did we read chaucer. I like still Jill can't understand Shakespeare I would still I would still need that. No Fear Shakespeare too it's like why are we reading that in tenth grade. I like literally can't understand it now. Now I feel like what connected me to like. Shakespeare was college when I decided when I switched from England to theater because that is Shakespeare theater you know you're supposed to be like yeah living it talking you know thinking about the fact of US reading Julius Caesar in Freshman Year. I'm like what the fuck is to Sandwich and Shakespeare with contemporary literature which was just I felt like an English classes. We you just read one right after the other and you basically need you need like you need to be taught to reach Shakespeare. You need like a month before him to learn teacher or how many of of us and our development as writers was stunted by the insistence that Ernest Hemingway wrote perfect sentences now exactly exactly. Oh my God like one of the things that I have been most grateful about you know in recent years in his specifically as it pertains to my life and as it has pertained to the reception of this book. Is that finally like we're no longer seeing like you know. It's just this thing where we all grew up in this like the straight white male experience was framed as you know an explanation of what it was to be a human right and everything else was special interest and I think as you know in highschool just reading story after story like this. I just just all of this. Discontentment was was bubbling and me that are points of views are no longer a special interest. You know in a lot of ways like with this book one thing that I was thinking what what am I only secret goals for it. Was I want to read a book that was mostly about women but that wouldn't be framed as lake. You know here's a feminist thing that you can choke down to take your medicine. You know something the thing that was about women but wouldn't be talked about like that would just be like it's about women but it's about it's more than that. It's about being alive right now but almost all of the book is about women kind kind of and and I think it was partly my desire to try to do that. came out of just like so many just like you know like yeah. Nick Adams fishing over Fragneau the special interest thing you know just an aside is so interesting to me too because I feel like as a kid a person who loved going to the library love going to the bookstore like I lived at Barnes and noble right I as a young like black and gay kid in Milwaukee. It felt very uncomfortable going to the sections. Were those books that you might be interested in. Were as like you didn't. WanNa be seen perusing. The Gay and Lesbian Section right didn't want to be seen by saying oh you're only going to re black books like I also remember the gay and Lesbian Section Barnes and noble being exactly one like six shelf thing and it was next to like Christian thought it was about also speaking of Shakespearian level things. I did not know reality television in your deep past and I do. I am very fascinated at new reviewing yourself on this show that aired on the Noggin network when you were a teenager I watched noggin. I do you watch you watch. Doria are and I'm pretty sure I saw this show. the show is. I think my my year was kind of boring but so this reality TV show called girls versus boys Puerto Rico four guys versus four girls in Puerto Artery go. It was like real world road rules challenge but we were all sixteen to eighteen and one thing about that show was I had never before been able to drink freely. I Like I fully gave like fifteen pounds twenty four week because it was like I was just like like you know you're sixteen and you can have Pinochle Day like it's felt like a miracle right but he's on the show in two thousand four and I never watched it was I think I could feel this age of self broadcasting cresting and I think I knew that I would participate in it forever and I was like Oh this is you can get get away with something here. You can have done something really stupid and never really have to face the consequences of it never watched it and then I was writing a book thinking about writing a book about self delusion and you know the the construction of the self in in these systems of contemporary life and I was like Oh God I did this show. I have to remember that I was on this show and I watched it all. It was nuts when I think reality. TV I still generally speaking think of people in their twenties misbehaving. You know it's it's the bachelor it's I love New York orc things like that but really at the time of my life when the appeal of reality I would've wanted myself to be on a reality show probably would have been as a teenager nature when I say getting into drama club etc so it's very interesting to see who actually did it as a teenager and how native narcissism that's universal to all of S.'s teenagers. I think it's really an also like when we were teenagers. It wasn't you know like reality. TV Hadn't turned into what it is turned into. Now right was still a novelty. You know so reinterviewed everyone. Everyone is on the show at Yeah I love those interviews with those people especially the girl who just sort of works at whole foods and just seems like she she has the one that we bullied just Paris when you believe but like the way she still talked was in like reality. TV ready sound bites so it's like of course there's a there those those people who were sort of the prototype for what would become the way we talk or it's just they learned it from mm being in that environment and it's why you can always just sort of go to some small town right and just sort of like pluck out people and they fit the mold for reality TV so well speaking of kids reality shows. I was obsessed with the paper that MTV Reality Star about never saw that what's the paper the paper was that high school paper and it aired in about. I think I was graduating college that time for the play two thousand eight yeah but it it really got in Cypress Bay Highschool Western Florida and it was just about senior editors of school paper cameras around. I mean it just there's no Dorky or console type. Thanks so much worse. It's like kids with notepads running around the football field getting quotes and stuff Harriet the spy corona reference to watch this yeah you guys if you guys could have been on a reality TV show. What would you have wanted to be on. what what's weird is what's still on my mind as Iran. I have a mutual friend who won the show big brother and I still on big brother. Yeah unfortunately it is I mean here's the here's what I need. Nothing need my cell phone. It's not that I need wikipedia so to be away from that for four months with truly the yes is there. Wasn't that that thing with big brother like. Didn't they like not tell them for a day that nine eleven happened. Yeah isn't that story. I mean I still remember the real world season where they saw nine eleven happening like Dr Day of so both y'all big brother so funny. Oh no another one of Lewis's favorites of I would kill to be on the mall. Oh I love. I missed the multi same same I also of course I wanted to be on like legends of the Hidden Temple. My all of us were shot exactly uh-huh fucking Olmec. I actually found the like the the remember how scary it was when the trees hands would pop out of is Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah like Ah. I still find really scary. I think all of us on this reality show like we still. We were close enough to being children that we like. Some of our challenges were kind of legends of the Hidden Temple Unilever assembling sort of you know as tech puzzle Super Racist Aztec Puzzle. What would you be on now. If let's say you had to be on one today. What would would you be. Andrea well so I think I don't watch any reality. TV I watched I would get stone and what shark tank like constantly for awhile and then Bethany Frankel go went on and I was like I get I but I've never seen the real housewives of never seen bachelor Bachelorette. Everything Van Republic any of that stuff and so the the thing is if I was conventionally attractive enough to get cast on Bachelorette and now I'm way too old but I have always like one of the things that I like. The most about being journalist is that it just gives you away to just plop in somewhere. See something like I would love to be like a mole on the Bachelorette like I would love to just somehow trick them into like I'm dying to know what that shows actually like. I loved unreal and I've I've never seen the actual Bachelorette but you know like I I really you. WanNa know what what those shows are like when you film them. Yeah I wanna say that the your book is also called is Trick Mirror reflections actions on self delusion and what I really liked was what you wrote about just how we all interact with each other on the Internet and how how on that phase of I mean someone who used to work at buzzfeed right and I remember the days when they were telling us. You know your posts can't be you can't be a hater. You know you gotta be happy. You know you always have to love something right and now about how the Internet now I just thrives is off opposition. it makes me just really about like what are we all doing on social media anymore and I really like how so in your book you're able to write about how we use the Internet today. I think that we're all part of this generation that you know like our lives. This will always be. We came of age. When the Internet did I mean it's it's literally the you know the pulsing organ through which the entire through which every other thing in contemporary contemporary life is routed. You know just like it's the beating heart at the middle of everything now and it's and it's also such a nightmare and I think people that do really well on the Internet. I've been thinking a lot with all of a lot of book self promotion. I've been thinking about what makes people suited to these mechanisms of self surveillance and self promotion and I've been thinking about how long I have been taking to these things without even noticing it like as without reality TV show but there's also something about the Internet the way it's structured. I mean these companies companies that are built on monetize ing attention. They are profitable the the the more irritated and angry and frustrated we are and there's a way in which that's kind of working into who interpersonal interaction where the people that are thriving on the Internet are tend to be people that are really good at dealing with position you know the tend to be people that are really good did at and I think that there's some people that do this really well and for the.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Keep It!
"Tolentino he now. I'm so excited. Thank you for having. Oh my God yes. I just want to say the name Trick Mirror and just like the cover ever is so seventies that every time I look at it I keep singing music in the mirror from a chorus line the intendant thing you wanted right yeah well. I didn't realize 'til like so. I'm from Texas and I I'm from Houston so most people from Houston don't have Texas accents like my parents aren't from Texas but I I realized after I sold the book that I can't say mirror properly like I say like mayor like I say Trick Mirror like I can't. I can't say it like mirror or whatever I looked here. Wait how how y'all Mirror Mirror IRA kinda says. Is it yeah so Louis C. You say it Kinda like do mirror like one word like anyway anyway. Lewis is the covers very seventies. Yes I love love it. I love the cover I love the words I mean. I knew I was going to let the words because you are a fantastic writer. I always love reading your Writing Extend Ya. I remember just comparing favorite parts of this book. I'M GONNA jump into the part about literary heroines and your relationship with them. Can you just talk about. Can you just talk about like you. First of all you clearly have read everything first of all just the sheer amount of like characters you cover in the section so sprawling but just talk about what led you due to reevaluate how you absorbed these stories and how you kind of resented the implication that you should relate to them and just how you you know what you're taken. I'm from reading all these stories the thing about this heroines essay in all the conversations about representation in pop culture and identification. I I've never felt connected to any any of that like I never. I never had the impulse to be like. Am I carry them. Is Samantha my or whatever I never connected to the you know. Which little women sister are you like all of that. I never had the impulse to try to see myself in anywhere in pop culture. I knew that there were two things that went into that one. It was is absolutely a racial thing. I still have never seen anyone on camera really ever. That's anything like me or had a life anything like mine and it's partly because my life was kind of particular like my parents are Filipino but I grew up in Houston in the suburbs and I think it never it never even occurred to me as a possibility that I could be represented wanted and as a result I have not needed. I I've sort of developed this thing where you know I can understand pop culture representation as an important issue and not personally relate to it is something that I have needed to build my sense of self and so there was that and there is also the fact that there was something about me that didn't want to identify with these narratives about women for specific reasons that I I thought that I could identify if I went back and read basically all the books about this sort of canonical heroines Irwin's from Laura Ingalls to you know out there in the Bell Jar to you know Anna Karenina and there was this thing about the trajectory of literary heroines. What's an yeah. I just read constantly as a kid. I still read constantly there. Is this thing there was this journey that they went from these brave plucky like super adventurous interest girls and then they would get to be teenagers and they would the story would become about how they were really beautiful and they were really desirable and they were so depressed and you know the future was opaque and mysterious steriods and like sexy but scary and bad and then they would get older than they would get married and they would become bitter women who were trapped by the economics of marriage or by infidelity or whatever and then often they would die like in the age of innocence or over here. Anna Karenina all of these all these stories are the awakening and I was like what is it. Why is this the trajectory of literary heroines. Why why is it that I only identified with these girls. I was like you know. Is this a case of like severe arrested development super childish like why is it that my identification stopped short in pop culture when I was about seven years old and just never and it was just this idea of like how the you know the narratives. We look got the narratives we read shape the narratives that we develop about our lives. It was also just really fun to read all those books again. You know maybe it was like that. Maybe the essay was just a pretense tenths for me to get to read all that Shin. I did not write an essay when I reread all the goosebumps books. So at least you did something really yes. I reread that some of them are scary. the lead John Kerry dump dummies historically scary. I remember be careful. What you wish for is a particular group. This is what you want to talk about yeah. No I was always scared by the ones like like any funhouse clown adjacent like that trump was so fucked up for me. Have you guys watched argue for you to the dark. The clown episodes of the scariest ones are afraid of the dark. It's still scary yeah okay. That's what I thought the clown in the funhouse yeah and the one where the girl gets shrunk down you know the little doll houses though like that one scared the shit out of me that scared me because not only she trapped in a doll house but she lost human qualities like she she became she was in a very kind of American doll outfit so she was just losing any semblance of humanity while I'm really surprised they haven't haven't rebooted. Are you afraid of the dark honestly their reasoning all this dumb stuff and it's like you know give me some more of that like I'd watch it and I think mostly some of them are just dumb like there's one episode where it's based on the fact that native Americans don't like having their pictures taken because it can steal your soul right kidding me uh-huh horrified votes. That's so yikes. I don't remember that one. I remember also there was like a it was a goosebumps uh-huh. Maybe Erzik fear street where like like something. It was like a toilet based monster. It was like something would jump up through the toilet whole Jack you and I remember like I couldn't sit down to take a nice book about a sponge that was came beneath the same I remember it came from the sink and it was a sponge this like we're getting into the thirtieth or thirty first book and we you know bonds a little frightening one. Call Vampire breasts like you're really looking around like he's just like what do I got water bottle kind of all of them. You know I based on how present he is on twitter. I feel like maybe he must have been pretty with it. You know I don't know there's some things that that novels are really incredible at doing. and I think that like notoriously fiction is really bad at being sexy and it's also really it's hard to find a really scary book but you know what I mean like. I like like books. Are It's really really hard like it's almost all famous. Fiction writers are pretty bad at writing sacks and it's it's hard to write sex. It's also really hard to be scary. There is this book called. Fever Dream Rian biased Spanish writer named Samantha Schwebel and it was fucking scariest shit like it's like a single sitting novel and I like I I mean I was so scared by the end I'm reading. It and I think they're adopting. It and it's going to be great but it's I also I admire those books for actually being able to be scared. I don't only think it was because we had undeveloped minds as children if if you read them recently and thought they were scary. Maybe I should take a look. Do you think there's something in the idea just of the way we read books than and the way that you write books that makes it easier for just sort of sadness to be something that really resonates in a book part of the what I was writing about in that heroines essay is that men like great male protagonists like the one we think of as you know you'd have to Ernest Hemingway coming way in school and and you would be told that he was working out the human condition right like Gatsby was about like this existential situation the swimmer in the cheever story Raymond Carver's protagonists like all of these things will get talked about their men. It's about what it is to be alive. As a human and then novels about women they're like they're not about transcendence and the experience of being live there about what it is to be a woman bounded within really specific social conditions the novel super novels are really good at expressing thing these sort of questions of existence in context of society and systems culture because those things are like they take their sort of accumulative right like like they. It's like why everyone is calling the wire novelist all the time it's because it takes a long time to build the context that's required to express this sort of stuff but fear and you know awarness like that that is sort of a that sort of like just a sensory almost pre-verbal nonverbal thing and that's why. I think it's so hard for people not right well yeah. I thought that James Baldwin wrote really well. It's like sex scenes in another country. and I and I really we feel that as teenagers were done a disservice by the books that we are supposed to read in school. I'll so so many things I saw. This is the worst thing y'all had to read in school. Oh God that's a good question right. Is it still catcher in the Rye. I hate catching the definition. You're supposed to identify with how conversational it is and then whatever you get two years old or are you. A real realized immediately at the time. This guy is so fucking like why would Xuemei release takes a second to realize it did y'all. How do you often read a separate piece. I did not I did not. This book radicalized me because it was so fucking boring. It was also like so gay in my life repressed Bible like we weren't allowed to speak the word gay out loud at school and like and so and my teacher like I kept being like is this book about their love for each other. Sexually you know in my teacher was like Gee. That's that's blasphemous. The book was so boring we spent so long on it and my teacher wouldn't talk about the only part in it that was interesting and I was just like man. You know if it's possible that we have to talk about this boring shit for six. You know it's like anything's possible in this world like in all these books like I was talking. I did that like by the Book New York Times Questionnaire russian-arab. One of the questions they asked was if you could make a book like required reading for anyone under eighteen what would it be and I said this book random family by Adrian Nicole Leblanc DONC..
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Keep It!
"I remember Ashton era right but Charlie's angels full throttle which I think is that I want to say that is now her lasting iconic moment as in if you if you talk to somebody who's twenty four years old. They're gonNA bring that up. I was never good. I was great. I've actually never seen that movie. I don't think there's anything Charlie's angels. Full throttle is about meaning what it first of all. She has a point on. It's a legend in it. Is the moment yeah yeah. No I mean she looks stunning. Obviously I honestly don't think that movie would have worked without somebody like her in it because that movie is all over the place on the Golden Gun. There's so much going hot in that movie but there's also speaking when they say full-throttle like you watch. Charlie's angels and then you see the sequel and it's definitely like turnt up volume. Hi Shiloh booths in it Bruce Willis. Isn't it like there's so so much going on the story is all over the place but to me is I went to the trolley digital premier and I'm just seeing that was the first time her and Ashton and all the they we all came together and this was like the heyday of just like pop popcorn just wasn't like the beginning of a Paris Hilton Alton etc.. Yes and then things were starting to sort of like you knew it was going to die soon because he can't get hotter than this but she was when they first got together. I I like hearing like her. Inner Monologue about what she felt like people thought and like how her agent who was I think was Kevin Ngubane at the time was basically telling her that being with ashes making her look desperate and like you know not serious like not a serious actress but I just the only thing that makes me angry about that whole exchange even though they were hot couple is how much energy and effort she put into him. D really sapped worth. He was not worth it. It's also weird weird to see it so spelled out in the book like she talked about how she was pressured into three ways with him to keep it alive which is a very Jane Fonda Roger Vadim Era Marriage Ridge concession. Yeah what's funny about the troubles in those four throttle thing by the way is our friend Mat Rogers as mentioned in the book outright as a young journalist interviews recently. I think at sundown yes she said a young journalist interviewed me at Sundance and said that the moment where you say eh I was never I was great and a Single Tier Rosanna. I is his favorite moment from any film and I remember it's I texted Matt at set your favorite moment in any film slightly thirsty ever seen citizen Kane the Dow Mat Rogers has seen citizen. I we discussed another but he then mentioned mentioned that she's also a great crier and ghost and like she's one of the one of the iconic criers infirm and she goes on a tangent about how I'm Oh my God I was so worried about crying and ghost and now to be remembered as a crier onscreen. She's also really great. Producer who produced a lot of films produced Austin powers. The Austin Powers Series interesting and she just doesn't get a lot of credit. I feel like in from what it sounds like based on her book. I mean she seems like a perfectly nice woman. I'm sure sure she had to make tough decisions and beat that bitch in certain occasions but I really don't see why people have always treated her yeah. She's like the epitome of somebody who is treated as overexposed almost immediately. She's like you know taking up too much of our time but I would say what's. It's interesting isn't thinking about my favorite movies of hers. I would have to go with a more recent one. You've ever seen margin call. Haven't maybe I should good uh-huh. She's she's definitely the only woman in it yeah but it's basically than it right. It's barely it's it's more like he was Agra. Quinto and Jeremy Irons has a big moment. Okay I feel like yes Penn Bachelor. Put a lot of Kevin on the cover of the the movie right. I don't know what you would do with him at this point. Where's that memo. Where's the more well in the garbage please. I'd read it it and Rita Bryan singer memoir. Yeah okay well. I wouldn't buy it. I would torrent it. They'd probably download legally posthumous commits memoir from either them would send them to prison. They don't WanNA publicity tour. Yes you know I don't want you on my screen. I wanted to die and then I want to read you all right. Read like Amanda Woodward exactly exactly right. I've decided to forgive you. Both were schools for no oh. I wasn't about to be like I still stood Kevin Spacey. I flew to Italy to hear him read poetry we would never. I like the idea of a movie like Samos Fire. It's just a bunch of like these people is going to be super famous. The answer is four of them. You know I like the jump off point movies right in that movie. That movie is Godawful Yeah. Oh you hadn't seen it before no I. I saw it in college judge okay. I was like what the fuck is. I was a kid when it came out and all I remember the most iconic thing is is her room. Her Room is like this hot pink. Yes and that was like crying on the floor sats blurring like the curtains. I literally paint in my bedroom pink. When I was in mytalk she literally iconic though for women back then it was all about blondes it it was all about like this like the the like that and she was a raspy. You know brewery winona. Here's the the thing I wanNA ask talking about how she discusses Sexuality and etc.. I WanNa know what you think. her response to the indecent proposal reviews cause she talks about how would it came out. People were like this is the year of the woman but you know it's also about the year of bind women and it's like it says Robert Redford is sort of like raping her in the movie because it's like he's is paying for her but she talks about how with the childhood and like her mother like selling her off to the man who raped her when she was younger she defines the movie empowering because it's a woman on her own terms deciding to have sex for money. I it's it's a very her reasoning behind not shock me no but one thing that complicates this is that the movie sucks right the timing naming of it with the with the market being what it was at that time also. I think people I I liked that. It created conversations about. Would you think any movie that is capable of doing that. This is an air before social media and that you were able to sort of draw out these conversations that got people playing around with like you know. Roles calls like she's going to have to save us by putting it out. That movie is a black twitter twitter question yes would when you have this much money would you yes do. We have any final thoughts on his memoir. I really hope this gives us a chance you know. I feel like she's earned. It's not even about earning warning if she deserves it. Oh Five Tang one of my favorite antidotes in the book was talking about being on the set of a few good men and how one day it took forever forever for Jack Nicholson to come out of his trailer because he knew in advance. Magic Johnson was going to announce that he was HIV positive and he had a chance to watch it because he's such a Lakers Kherson. Yes he has spies on the Lakers. Also you knew he was going to announce it was so why did you need to watch. It wasn't a game right. It was it was like what did you think was. GonNa Happen really would love to be a fly on the wall of him watching that just that like my week with Marilyn bio-pic six days and Jack Nicholson trailer Magic Johnson's HIV I just I just want to know the thing is is that still an era the wind she was working when she was at the height of it was the height of when you can clearly do whatever whatever they those are the stories. I love the most the eighties early nineties when people were really unhinged so many stories in the book. I mean more money her career happen because the producers liked her at paid for her to go to Rehab. Yeah so she could be Hud set the fucking movie and it's just like the idea that Joel Schumacher was Joel Schumacher having it but the same in her fire yeah yeah pre him being like Oh. I'm going to put you in Rehab. So you can do do say elmo's fire. It's just like the idea that you were putting so much effort into an actress who rug alcohol problem. Melanie Griffith's Yup Yup and on working girl you know like in the thing is is like these women have been afforded opportunities that not many get You know to have a man. Dan beat obese empathetic to your plate or your situation. I feel like her career sort of parallel with Melanie with all the you you know the famous husbands the children the wanting to be a mother sort of being you know I will say that they both have minds for business and Bosphorus Right. We'll be right back with Miss Jia telling Tina struggling sleep these days. You're not allowed. One in three adults doesn't get enough sleep and if you're not sleeping enough it can affect your cognitive functions during the day like learning problem solving and decision making. I actually think that I have sleep paralysis this. I have lately been trying to fall asleep and I see that alleged. Sleep paralysis deepen standing over me anyway. That's why I take xanax..
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Keep It!
"Sure the original provocateur Tor- agent provocateur wwl one Demi Moore published her memoir inside out in what she opens up about her marriages her substance abuse her childhood. Many other things listen. I was reading this by. The poor in palm springs this weekend. which I feel like is ideal to read celebrity memoirs percent. It's about luxuriating right and this was a book from the jump. It was wild. What do we think she is. You know what's interesting about her. This book was missing Shit. There are things that I know occurred that she did not add into this book but just the juice that she dropped was enough for me was enough for me and I kept thinking to myself. We haven't had a good celeb- memoir in a in a minute. It's it's a dying art. It's a dying are like I'm gratified. Just that we have enough to talk about here on. Keep it because I mean if I could turn this whole thing into select memoir podcast. You know in a hostile title takeover. I was GONNA say I was disappointed in the press about this book that so many people are focused on the Ashton Kutcher when that is not a fascinating era of Demi Madman it I'm more interested in the Brat packing and specifically the time in the nineties when she was getting so much money for movies that did so badly yeah like when you like when's the last time anybody watched the scarlet letter which that's like the last definitive movie version of that and she started it with Gary Oldman and it is the pits is a horrific. Lee Bad movie. Yes I mean I feel like she spent a good time on blame it on Rio and I appreciate it. I liked that you talk about being in Brazil. Do it every day every day looking forward hunting for it Fred Azizi yes. She's still friends with to this day. I love us. She adds that just like she's like. Don't talk anymore about anything else that happened during the shoot for blame it on Rio so she spent a Lotta time on blame it on Rio and I am actually waiting for another memoir from her because would when we interviewed Kathleen Turner I remember she had a memoir but she also had Kathleen Turner on acting right so someone interviewed her about each movie movies. She's done and I feel for actresses like to me like people who are really like big actors being paid so much money like they were Hollywood stars stars. I would love just a book. Someone being like alright no small affair okay right one crazy summer okay butch because my legendary movie poster yes her She's blonde on the cover of in that same vein IRA. My favorite part of the book is when she is talking about the filming of the movie indecent proposal and did the Director of that movie is screaming. Things like ooh. That gave gave me a boner really really. She's like very eighty s about it. She's like ultimately was helpful to the scene. I was like not not look the she mentioned wait. She mentioned again when she talks about when she goes to dinner. with Sharon Tate has been Oh. Yes Roman plants philanthropy sorry so I just you know the book has a lot of these are the sensibilities of a woman who came up in the eighties nineties. Hollywood treated her in a sexist way. Yes and you you see from her upbringing. you know parents constantly fighting splitting up moving her everywhere her mom's constant suicide side of tabs that wherever attention her dad being not her dad not. Burnett not being her dad and being also a scammer uh-huh Campbell likely scam actually every single thing was a scam. I'm like I didn't know that you grew up in paper. Moon uh-huh McGrath and she talks about being raped at a young age and I just think and like her her mom mom sort of being friends with that person probably knowing about it and getting paid getting paid dollar. Yes so there's there's a lot in here like Oh. This is kind of dark to see that this is her outlook on life because it's what her life at in Hollywood just sorta beat in the people during that era you know because she the before the agent len movies he talks about she talked with Glenn Close and growing clubs. It was like just so you now now when I shot CEO attraction who he would. He also directed yes. Adrian was yelling the same things that onset. That's not okay okay yeah. It's really really yeah also there's when I was reading the book I I was reacquainted but the fact that Demi Moore is also somebody buddy who she was definitely list for a long time but also never truly respected as in she got big projects and stuff but she and Madonna were the reasons and the razzies existed you know and I talked about this in an old keep it years and years and years ago but yes keep it with famously started in nineteen in the finale of Mash. We started right there but I always thought the razzies were re. Gently ribbing male stars like still vaster stallone. What a joke and like nobody thought Sylvester stallone was anything meanwhile they would like harangue female stars trying to be taken seriously and I feel like Demi Moore nor is the epitome of that of somebody who just got bad scripts maybe gone some bad scripts gave performances that some thought were wooden but at this but she you got an outsized amount of criticism for those she was seen as Bossie and entitled to but the thing is is that she was one of the few actresses who didn't have to audition that much and then she can just go and say I want to do this and they'd be like sure yes and people just gave her what she wanted and sometimes it was a win? Sometimes it made sense ends and sometimes it was like her just thinking. This is going to be the best thing ever strip teeth. I went back and revisited strip tease and I thought you know today. It would probably still flop but it wasn't as terrible as people considering. That's showgirls was right around that era. I feel like it wasn't in as bad as people made it out to be but I also felt like it was a huge fuck you because if you think about it right before that it was all of those photos of her out on the beach after she had to Lula of her being not in the best shape and it was that was her chance to sort of be like well this is GonNa look great and I'm GonNA option this story and make could into this film and get paid the most and like pay equity people women weren't talking about pay equity like that and she was also one of the first to sort of be out there. You know talking talking about getting top billing equal pay you know all the things I mean speaking strip tease Armata Santa right yeah. This is there. Is this idea that she was one of those actresses who really was selected culture right. You know you you think about actresses. Now who like we revere you know sort of like a southfield or something right. It's like they are famous because they're you're an actress and we see their movies and they win awards and then there are people who are famous because they are in the tablets also in movies looking the J. Lo J. Lo would have been very much demy more if she were older. I think good nineties corollary would be Sharon stone like like many people could not shut the fuck up about Sharon stone and now you could probably name for main movies. I'm Sharon Stone's from that time you know where missing missing out in an era where she's able to make savvier choices and actually be in sort of good movies or we even respect the movie she does 'cause they're fun and we like her as opposed to these bad but then she can also look aspirational link. The lifestyle is an aspirational national thing like for me. It was like the movie star Action Hero has been you know the three girls having being like a mom being beautiful just being being breathtaking and always sort of serving like when we think about ghost where she wasn't the best part of ghost but she wasn't. She certainly wasn't the worst part of yes she. It was fine. Go finding goes. It's so interesting hearing her talk about like ghosts too much a few good men yeah talk about how she was honored to be on the set with so many these actors like she talks indecent proposal seeking like you know. I was on screen with a legend Robert Redford edit really just sounds is like this woman who's been not respected and she felt like it was sort of an honor for her to be allowed on the right. There's a part in the book of course she talks about how she met. Andy Warhol recently in the eighties and then invited him to her wedding and then she heard through the grapevine that he was so flattered to be invited it is it's weird to hear it from her perspective because you can tell. She's bewildered by it. She's never for one second like and of course he should be feel honored to be invited to to my wedding. She's like no. I don't know about the deal was right which which makes the incident with Vanity Fair seems so shocking right because the interview came out the one that accompanied her nude pregnant photograph by by Miss Lewis she talks about how the interview though was like Demi Moore is a bit she's Bossy posit trouble upset and I feel like it was how she thought thought that people perceive her so much y'all remember that real old enough to re- guys old enough to remember the cover it was so there was so much much discussion about it for the longest longest time it just a older lady but there was so many conversations ends on Morning News Evening News nightly news late night. There is rumor going to the grocery store and it was covered up like you what you knew what it looked like but all oh stores had covered it up and I just think like that's how I she's an icon because it's today nobody would even care about that. yeah right you see a magazine magazine cover like that once every couple of months yeah that's worth celebrated has the new whatever the naked issue wherever they do. They all look like I'll look like that. It's beautiful not because I love that haircut hers from that era to be honest the one that she tried to get in Paris and so that was very funny. Exchange she talked about how she she wanted to get Isabella Rossellini haircut so she was embarrassed and they fought it gave her that short haircut and that she came back a- and asked a hairdresser friend hi. Can you fix this and he was you know I'm the one who did Rosalita hair. I got the miles house now yeah. She did what I think of Demi Moore to be honest. There are two versions. I think of her. I think of ghosts era short haircut yes because I feel like ghost was film that was constantly in rotation at home. I watched ghost and then and then we use the phrase fuck out. Really we know it made me cry well. No I was I cried in theaters. was that ghost. One of the first nightmares had that wasn't about. Freddy Krueger was is being dragged away by those demons the DA really scary villains to hell was a frightening moment if I'm not mistaken. It's a PG movie or something. It's really frightening eh it might be. PG Thirteen but you know what that movie. She was right when her description of that movie it was quirky. Yes those quirky. She was like this is forty. Forty from movies and then Whoopi Goldberg is running around the movie big a scammer psychic. She sort of her own movie. VN obviously what a wonderful performance yes men. It's it's funny because she really is the least remember normally. I mean we remember Patrick swayze because it's easy and good work and whoopie. I mean the most memorable thing from goes is Kamali Angel Girl. Yes I think the bank seen is the to me the Oscar clincher yes but then the other doc..
"jia tolentino" Discussed on FT Everything Else
"I like it doesn't matter I want to but it doesn't matter what matters is massive systemic reorganizations and so yeah this book is about the self and a lot of ways and it's sort there aren't there aren't many self level solutions. That really are important to me. So what you're saying is is not that you don't believe in solutions with you. Don't believe in change but at this moment particularly it's systemic change that to happen you put in your own honoring compost or not doing that is actually going to chain yeah and I think that I think this is also me pushing against if the Internet is set up to make the cell feel so central and magnified. I think one of the things that I'm also drawn to and trying to access them. Whatever ever way I can is the reminder that the Internet makes it seem that the whole world has something to do with you right that you're personally involved in all this stuff because it incentivizes you personally personally respond in a way that reflects correctly upon you in reality. Most of the world has nothing to do with us. You know these tiny little people you know in our a tiny little sphere and I think I I'm trying to reclaim that understanding from the internet which wants to distort the self to make it you know the size of the world old I mean that's a that's a positive thing you know putting putting our own lives into perspective. It's about seeing the world as it is rather than how Social Media Meteo wants us to see it but it could be read as a as a kind of essentially quite pessimistic outlook what if kind of understanding why we do something. Why we you want something what if that doesn't make us not want to do the thing yeah and it certainly hasn't been well. I also tried to write a lot of these critiques through the standpoint of wire they pleasurable pleasurable like why are these corrosive systems really really pleasurable and why are they attractive. I think this is another thing about being alive right. Now is you can understand everything everything about how something is bad and he will continue to engage with it half from desire and half from necessity right like for example ridesharing services. They underpay their drivers. They don't provide benefits. I use lift in New York. All the time and knowing what's bad about something has never stopped me from forming my life. I found myself vote around. It and I think that it's kind of just like a plain basic fact and it doesn't scare me. That's what interests me. I'm much more interested in thinking about or I feel like. It's necessary component to think about these things from a standpoint of desire as well does knowledge change your behavior well. I think so this this is the thing that I think maybe the book is really about right. You know I started writing this book after the election the twenty sixteen election where it was like okay. The use of knowledge is no longer as clear. There's I thought it was and the question of whether something is good or bad doesn't matter the way I thought it did and you know knowledge often doesn't change our behavior on all up and down the scale like I. I'm GonNa keep taking vacations. You know I'M GONNA keep getting on planes and going and you know to places to see the world before climate change ruins it and in the process ruining the world you know I'm GonNa keep doing it and I think and I wanted to write a book that had that tension the fact that knowledge often doesn't and I think that's such a dominant overarching condition of our time knowledge not leading to what we thought it did and trump. Isn't you know he's not actually explicitly mentioned very much. In this book feels like a book that's written in the era of of trump with the knowledge of or that means a new say in the introduction. I think it is that that was a wakeup call in terms of ideas of certainty and Jerry and kind of all these things that we think that we do as journalists right you know it really called into question with uh stuff e yeah and I had been kind of chafing against certainty and certainly in my own writing for a while but there is also something about the trump era. That's like you think you've got it and then like rugs. Just keep getting pulled out from under your feet. Wait you know like I thought that the pussy tape was as low as I could sink in terms of understand and then like the Brett cavenaugh hearings happened and you know like I've been walking around. The edges of this question of what is the use of certainty. What role does it play in my understanding of the world and then the election happened and it just just threw me into this. Meyer that I'm still in and I think that's okay. I WanNa ask you about this some kind of issue of certainty and uncertainty and you say often in the book that you know I'm never sure of anything or you feel ambivalent or unsure about all of the issues that you write about I think and then you say that when you sit down to write it's a calm person who appears on paper and not you know it struck me as as this immature Joe Mr conjuring a different cell yeah on the page the self who's the actual right yeah. Can you write that calm person into being what happens through Roy Yeah Yeah. I think it's not even conjuring right. I mean I think the Internet wants to pin you into this consistent very consistent thing in in actuality we are not just inconsistent instant but we're actively shaped by whatever systems are shaping. US including the Internet right like it's molding in its image basically and I think it's important to remember that that we are very multiple and Dan perpetually that way I think and in my head I always will confused and when I finished writing about something. I feel that I fueled. I'm clearer and that is a self that I that I have continually tried to bring into being through writing and not even to conjure at to actually actually become himself to have that the the me and myself in context of having a bunch of ideas that I haven't tried to work through is a different itself than the me after I've tried to work through them and I've always known that I had the ability to convince myself things and convince myself of certain ideas the World Donald and myself that were often enough serving in some way and at the same time that this ability is tied up with the thing that I loved the most and that brings me the most meaning which is writing like these things are always going to be inextricable but I do think it's just something I've always something that I always want to keep my eye on my ability to to write a certain self into being in a larger sense. That's like the writer self that's clear but I think there's also probably a desire to write myself into kind of like a virtuous self itself for you know an appealing sulfur whatever and I I think that if the thing that I have been trying to cultivate through writing this ability to make make something clear it's essential and it's necessary and I need it and I need to live this way and it's also the quickest way for me to you know bullshit myself. I gotTa Yeah I gotTa be aware of it. I guess this is the thing that makes writing about on certain t quite difficult. You sit down to write what comes off. The page sounds quite certain yeah yeah with a lot of ways writing. The book was even like how do I work this out in writing. Is there a way to productively uncertain in a way that's also legible because you have to make even that even writing about uncertainty have to be quite clear. This does the kind of I mean. I was GONNA say attention but it's not really attention but there's a sense in the essays that you're thinking these problems through and I'll move uh but at the same time you're pro style is very authoritative. It's crisp is yeah and so the voice is not on certain even if the subject matter you're totally yeah. Maybe that's how I work through it. I'd never I'd never thought about it that way. Thank you for telling. This must be the funny thing about being interviewed as people sort that of tell you oh yeah and also I think one of the reasons I write so much that I'm not actually I think I am a thoughtful person but in my day to day texture of living I'm not really that thoughtful on an everyday basis. Just write things down and understand that will wanna make sense of them later. When I say a very thoughtful demeaned in the moment yeah yea yea like I am actually like pathologically in the moment it might be like you know. I'm like a career stone or that might be why you know. I don't think about things before they happen. I mostly try not to think about things after they happen. I mostly just walk around. You know like a balloon on a string like I really don't feel that thoughtful and it's only afterwards and mostly writing that I can really makes sense of anything is really interesting because you write about the idea of ecstasy both in terms of the drug and of the kind of spiritual emotional dimension of the ecstatic experience on the other hand. You're so right about the idea of control at one point you say I value control almost as a matter of etiquette as an aesthetic and and the writing itself is very controlled and yet it seems that does this kind of yearning for the ecstatic and you see that in your writings as well it becomes the the the essay say on Ecstasy. I think is is one of the most brilliant ones in the book and that it has quite lyrical quality. I mean what what's the relationship between control and sort of abandonment. My way of living in the world is organized around extreme like contradictory extremes like it's so miraculous even be walking around and it's like kind of unfathomable and at the Santos full of despair all the time you know and both of those things always exist and so many things in the booker about things that I'm really attracted to really repulsed by and those things will always exist at the same time and I think the control and abandonment thing this is another thing that my friend that a friend she was interviewing me and she asked me and we were kind of drunk and she was like what does sanity sanity mean to you and it just slipped out said unconsciousness and I was like oh no like this is like this is like this would be like six years into therapy kind of thing and she just dragged it out emmy. Why do you think you said that because I think it's true right. I think that it's me trying to work at both ends meet trying to work against both things right like I feel. I have a strong desire in me for control. I have a strong desire in me for total kind of self erasure and I think it's similar with the you know the aggrandizement and the diminishment one of the self. I am attracted to both ends at the same time but it's also I can trust unmediated experience. I can trust sensation in a way that I don't necessarily trust my logical intrical brain. It's UNMEDIATED and there's so little in life. That's unmediated that pure mindless like sensory. It stunned like that by experience..
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Slate's Live at Politics and Prose
"This is live at politics and prose ah program from slate and politics and prose bookstore in washington d._c. Featuring some of today's best writers and top thinkers so i'm so happy to welcome you all here to celebrate jia tolentino for her new york times bestselling trick mirror reflection on south to the the couple of notes before we start we have recording tonight and we ask you to come up to the mics to answer questions. There's one there and one over there in the corner and please make your question a question. It's really important not a comment on over. Just you know let's get the conversation started at the end of the event. If you're lucky enough to be sitting in a chair if you had folded up and lean against one of the bookcases are booksellers would be very grateful feel free taking pictures to be instagram ing tag us. We'll get it out there. I'm just please silence your phones because that's just not cool if it's going off in the middle of the event and what else are fall is crazy i don't i know we have a lot of new faces at politics and prose we have events here at at our store and union market at the wharf at six the ni- listener at lincoln theatre almost every single night of the year coming up hussy coats jodi kantor and megan twelve leslie jamison jacqueline woodson and like so many others the very best way to get early heads up it become a member but if you can't spend what you would on one door desk delivery to join our membership twenty five dollars you can do that at least sign up for our weekly newsletter and then you'll get all the information so i've been a g._m. Tolentino fan for a really long time but i have to tell you that i hadn't experienced this morning when i was in my six thirty a._m. Bar class yes yes and you know the jonas brothers. It was like pumping in loud but even louder than that was it was his words that we're kind of like penetrated into my reality. Let me just read you really quickly. Weekly jessica turn the lights off and chirp that it was time for back dancing a term that i thought collapsing onto the floor sounded like what people on a parenting message the board might use as a euphemism for sex it wasn't in fact for ten fucking we laid on our backs thrust hips into the darkness with a sacrificial devotion that i not apply to actual sex for years so i bring that up because i had this revelation at six thirty in the morning that i done this things so many times but was so little attention geos writing gave me deeper entrance into my own experience to me what is so extraordinary about about her work in jazz abell the hairpin new yorker. New collection is the generosity of her worldview. She offered a critical analysis of the ridiculous. Nicholas moves that we make in bar and the whole culture around it but it wasn't judgement. She is anti anti pleasure as she asks us together. How can we have nice things without those nice things eating us alive. I'm wary of all the voice generation stuff but i know that no one else no no one else's essays have the brutal momentum of hers dislike gathering ability even as she tears things apart. Here's this thing let's look at it together. You're follow the fire of my thoughts and i won't give you an answer but i'll happily give you more questions with this. Appreciation means for my practice. I have no idea media but i do know of as a reader that i'm just completely accelerated by her work. We're absolutely thrilled to have in conversation station with jia cat chow if you don't know what you should cat is a reporter with n._p._r. Thank you.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"I think about that all the time but i think it's sort of like i was just talking to somebody about how i felt right. When i got back from peace corps where i had been just really you know as i wrote in the book just taking gre media shifts in the backyard. You know showering once a week like you know <hes> <hes> lungs are full of tuberculosis like you're really not in my zone uh-huh and i get back in like you know the reality of being like i think the discomfort i feel is like really just the discomfort also just being in the global one percent you know and feeling that like this is like sorry that this is like so intense but it's like you know feeling the reality of you know ten years sure now when there are millions more climate refugees you'll probably be okay and that makes me feel so crazy and also so lucky so so intent on like doing something with being alive you know and it's the feeling that i got when i came back from peace corps and i felt like you know my entire body was in the village where i lived but my head was in like i felt very split psychically and i would just like walk into the grocery store and like i said in the book just burst into into tears knows like how is it possible that i can buy anything anything that i wanna eat. I can buy it right now and you know and like realizing how few people in the world that's true for and the sense of being just walking around as like a creature that got to be really really happy. You got to like it. It's a kind of happiness that is like a particular kind of happy that is heightened lightened and also complicated by its context anyway. I'm happy oh my god. It's like you're like. It's like that twitter thing. It's like max. Nothing and i'm me. I'm like well ten years from now the global climate. There's one other thing that happened after our last interview which i feel like i should tell people without your dad. Remain email plenty please. Can you please why are you trying to. Why do you try to own me. Why why just just every one of these bike as starting into owning me let it go. What did he say a very nice note that it was his favorite interview that you had done all aw and also the only thing i had missed that you got a perfect s._a._t.'s school <music>. It's true fuck cool aw thanks listens long-form. I'm excellence to my co. Hosts are aaron lamour and evan ratliff our editor john piper interns turn louisa garwick. Thanks to them thanks to our sponsors. Mail chimp could read this summer dot com if you're looking for something to read and pit writers and thanks thanks <hes> most of all to gio tolentino for coming back on the show. It was really fun to talk to her. It's really fun to talk to her. There's like very few people in the world who are more fun to talk to but <hes> it was particularly fun to talk to her before this book came out and she's getting all kinds of press all kinds of praise and it really couldn't be more deserved respond to get this is a moment with her before all that started book is called trick mirror. Go get yourself a copy next week.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Seeing little undercurrents and how people are talking is something that i ended up in my work but i <hes> yeah and there's something monstrous about like. I was just thinking the year that i spend the peace. Corps was the year that memes happened two thousand ten basically it was i think the year that it was like charlie bit my finger and like the you know the bed intruder guy then i came back in everyone was talking about memes and i had had no internet for a year and i you like my reaction to everything back then was extremely strong and strange but it made me want to burst into tears every like the the meaninglessness of them was so intensely obvious to me when i come back in the peace corps and now it's like what i write about you know and i was thinking about this like i was on a hannele <hes> a couple of weeks ago with linda holmes and emily nussbaum and taffy ackner and someone asked a question she was like i don't mean this in a rude way but she's like the news producer and like do you guys ever feel any conflict between writing about pop culture and you know given what's going on and i was like this was not a majority opinion and i was like i feel horrendously guilty about it every single day and like i do even though i'm really glad to be able to at the same time that like maybe i should write about wife stuff. You know i'm glad to be able to write about why so it's fun to write about wife guys but i feel so much guilt about that. Being thing that i'm good at is writing about this dumb shit. We've only been writing about schnell. That's true and i think always trying to build like some sort of tiny little invisible bridge between the dumb shit and something more important but anyway just to say like writing about the internet which i'm doing more and more it feels like i'm trying to dodge and weave the ridiculousness of it like a weight. I want to go back to the invisible bridge now. It is like help me understand what that if there is any connection with that connection is or is it literally dislike when not writing about all the bad stuff like is that just like kind of wrong and it's only right to read about not what i mean either right yeah because it's not like <hes> i just okay like like when i wrote about like large adult sons for the new yorker like there's a kind of point underneath it and then what i try to do is just not like someone after that tweeted at me every day for like two weeks being like. Why didn't you mention that. All of them are white and i was like that's the point of the piece. I just didn't say it you know and so i've been like kind of playing with like sometimes i will do that. Have the most obvious conclusion not be stated and like that's what i mean about the invisible bridge. There's there's like a there. Is you finish the pieces an obvious step you take onto some idea but it would be kind of fake deep. If you like wait a piece about a mean being like in that's racial politics in america for you know like it's sort of like playing with like how can you write about dumb stuff in a way that does reckon.
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"You know like she represents like tiger woods mistress you know like she has gotten reputation at the same time that she i followed her throughout the cosby case and she like she is so deeply committed. She's seventy and she basically the tension. That story was is she trying to get famous. As this idea of a feminist attorney or is she really about that and that was the thing that i had to figure you're out and i don't know i think just the profile writing itself is terrifying to me. You know it's like you. You are presenting a narrative of someone's self hood and you're kind of in control of how that's presented and it feels like a little too much power to have over someone one you know even though obviously you know your profiling people who are like have a lot of power but it's thinking about a piece generally being like i can trust myself to get this right is one thing when it's like. I can trust myself to get you. Is you know yum yeah. That's really audacious and and i and i think maybe i'm just a little. I was a little intimidated by that. I still am may be like it's it. Just seems like a a responsibility you just i want to go into. Thanks being like yeah. I think like i mostly think i can do this and it'll be it'll push me out like this much more in these ways rethinking at all about like a what her reaction to it will be or you able to get that on your head. I mostly don't think about that. I have such a high internal bar for fairness. I think doc i think every piece reported of always been petrified that it's unfair. Somehow you know that i've just totally totally misinterpreted the situation asian or i'm being wildly unfair but i am now understanding that that's kind of a natural and probably healthy corrective reflects that kind of ensures that i'm not that unfair probably so what you're <hes> like two years in three years what year when i i think we have early two thousand sixteen something like that. Yeah i guess and i left jesuit bell in the summer of two thousand sixteen three years yeah three years. It's been there for three years yeah. How closely has it hyun to like what your expectation was. If you think back to then again part of my thing about not thinking about the future is that i generally have no expectations of anything which is again something that generally serves me really well because it's just like whatever happens will happen and so i come from <hes> being an idiot you know like having a brain that likes to be blank like i really think that's true yeah and also you know probably just have some chip missing somewhere like i really really rooted in the present day really live in the president like yeah i was like i just realized that when a person turns thirty they are finishing their thirtieth year life not beginning it like it's like my brands is broken for. I still don't actually totally early understand that see. It's confusing. It's confusing okay see your brain is also zero weird. H that's the that's the i think that's the that's the where the confusion don't don't you think when someone turns thirty. It's like welcome to your thirtieth year. That's what it feels like. It just feels like yeah but that's not what it is. It's like you've done. You've worked your third first year which doesn't yeah i think birthday should be zero's kind of bullshit like you. Could you could come out at one that makes no sense zeros issue yeah anyway right so this is is what i mean like like my brain. Were properly clearly. Neither does yours and yes my expectations. I i expected expected that it would be very intimidating which it has not been people have been very nice. There and i was scared at the first ideas meeting you you know i mean i. I worked in like the gawker office where i was like always like in my jeans shorts vaping you know and you know obviously. I'm not going to roll into conde lake. Thank you know like screaming..
"jia tolentino" Discussed on Longform Podcast
"Hello welcome to the podcast. I'm excellent game here with just one co host aaron. How are you sir. You're getting lonely on the show. At what point do we bring in a evan replacement the scab he's coming back. He's coming back. He'll be back. I think next week week after also maybe never but <hes> what <hes> what are we doing on the show this week. It's exciting one a long time. I'm coming the return of jia tolentino. I i've heard a lot about this jia tolentino book. I believe that i did not get a copy because you headed off off copy that came to long form the pass our now like <hes> to borrow but this the book is like totally original. It's not it's not a pre published rushed off. It's i know new essays yet. It's a collection of essays. <hes> a couple of them are online now just as excerpts of the book but <hes> they're all new <hes> she wrote them over the last year sort of on like nights and weekends around her job at the new yorker which is also a new development since she was on the show a couple years ago <hes> <hes> one one important note for this one. I actually talked to her. A couple of weeks ago before the book came out and <hes> it's a lot about that kind of moment <hes> <hes> before you book comes out in this thing you've worked on for so long is about to be on the world <hes> so it's a it's a it's like a little bit of time capsule 'cause her book is now out. It came out <hes> <hes> yesterday. It's called trick mirror and it's getting all sorts of <hes> insane attention all totally deserved so i. I know that we've caught some flack for doing too. Many book episodes on the shell show is <hes> extensively about long form magazine journalism but i think correct me. If i'm wrong max what we're trying to do <hes> is reflect on in the <hes> changing careers in writing that exists today and it does seem like a lot of those careers that maybe started on the internet. <hes> are ending up in the book room for probably a variety of reasons yeah. I think i think that is right. I think there's some economic reasons why that's happening both <unk> 'economic reasons about magazines and about book publishing <hes> but then there's also a thing which feels to me like <hes> this is episode three hundred fifty four. I'm impressed that you were able to just someone that from the ether. I'm not sure if you had given me the over under at three fifty. If i even knew which side we they were at but my point is like we are also in some cycle where people who came on the show several years ago who were early in their careers and and who we were incredibly excited about <hes> are now hitting this point in their careers where the writing books yeah. It's the process of human aging the process human aging. The positives of podcast is part of what's happening here. So i feel like <hes> yeah we have caught a little bit of flack for <hes> heaven so many people on who have books out but <hes> there are good reasons for it who <hes> who is bringing us the show this week man you know who you know who sponsored the show this week malcolm mail chimp that's right and <hes> particularly securely this project they do every summer called read this summer <hes> in which they pick a author to bring a group of authors to the decatur book festival this year. It's jenna worth them. She's got an incredible lineup. You can find all of their books at read this summer dot com and then you can go to the decatur book festival in september and <hes> go seaman person..