20 Episode results for "Jewel"

The Literal Deep Breath of Jewel Cave National Monument


1:05:55 hr | 6 months ago

The Literal Deep Breath of Jewel Cave National Monument

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Every podcasts watch three years well thrilled to report. We're back in one of my all time favorite states this sweet to talk about our latest park. Joel Cave National Monument in South Dakota. That's right and there's a lot to uncover here because they feel like even though Joel Cave is the third longest cave in the world and the second longest United States not to mention one of the oldest national park sites in the country not allow people know much about it. Yeah that's true I think it tends to get overshadowed mainly by other nearby South Dakota parks like badlands. Mount Rushmore at wind cave the latter of which we actually tried to visit on this same trip at this past summer but their elevators weren't working where we are passing through so they weren't able to give cave tours and that really sucked at first but I've been on the Tower Arve Teradata Disney and I know that elevator mechanics are an important thing so by all means get it. Take your time figure it out. I don't WanNa go plunging down. It's okay if it's really only fitting that you bring up that ride because if you remember from our first cave episode from season one about Carlsbad caverns the portion of the case where natural light mixes with the Complete Dr. This is called the twilight zone. Yeah so that terror of Terre reference actually just fits in perfectly but anyway we're excited to shine a spotlight or in this case Lantern Turn on Jewel Cave National Monument and coming up later in this episode where super excited because we have a special guest Park Ranger Mike wiles to talk with us so stay tuned for that Tom Matt and I'm Brad. This is park land. Yeah production of iheartradio. We sold our loft in Chicago. Moved it into an RV full time and now we're in the country with our dog. Thin exploring America's national parks. This week's episode is on Jewel Cave National Monument which is in western South Dakota all right. Let's just address the elephant in the room that I'm sure you're all wondering wondering about this. Place is Jewel Cave National Monument and not in fact Jewels Cave National Monument so it's not named for nor presided over by singer Songwriter Jewel. I know I was as shocked as you probably are. Now will they do have one thing in common though jewel cave and jewel. The singer are both both poetic. That's true maybe this is why I felt like such an immediate kinship with US place though because I'm not sure if you remember or if I ever really sure this fact talked with you but when I was a kid I had memorized jewels. You're meant for me Song by heart word for word and not only that in case I wasn't good enough but but I would ride my little scooter like my razor scooter around our driveway. For probably hours singing it in my both in my head and allowed and then then you're like what that was I don't like you know those cd because that's where you they're so delicate. You bump it not just freeze damage. I yeah so mix. I remember vividly those lyrics and music video which was just wonderful. It really was you've been meant Belt Karaoke to yeah. I guess it's kind of like a go to sing along song for me especially now in a Karaoke venue because last year may saying this it was actually our last night in Chicago in two thousand eighteen. We were out bar hopping with a couple of our best friends from Chicago. Louise and Maggie. Hugh had gone home for the night. I think because we had had a long night at that point dinner drinks and stuff but the three of us went up going to some nearby karaoke slash cocktail bar that I'd never even heard of even even those like half a mile or definitely less than a mile from our law which is crazy crazy. I it blended in with like the streetscape. I always assumed it was like a used furniture store or or something because they have like a generic name and it kind of luck shoddy but it really fit the vibe here and we just most up to the bar. I think Louise and Maggie had wine Ryan. I had like a Banana Bread Martini which is one of their. We are desert drinks so classy drinks and I had like liquid banana bread and when when we're all picking are karaoke songs I was just like I don't even need to look at the book. I know what I'm singing it's Joel for me and even though I was already in emotional rack going being in so her music did not help the situation one bit now. That really was a a difficult time. I mean especially if you for both of us like more so just that you know I left before they motions ran rampant because I had Yeah I couldn't handle it but Fortunately Jewel Cave has nothing to do with any of that So we can easily transition away from this emotional wreck Type of topic. But it's funny how. I'm always learning these trains. Musical facts about you like when you wrote a rap rap song about Haiti's in the fifth grade and now you memorialized and memorized Joel Yeah it is very strange or anything about it even more so the fact that I somehow always finagle these embarrassing facts in two episodes about national parks on on a near constant basis back to the cave. Let's start with some numbers because they're even more impressive than Karaoke skills trail. I pretty low bar. Let's be honest. You don't need to hear me Sing Joel. History so jewel cave is the third largest in the world it's got about two hundred miles of mapped passageways which puts it behind only early systemic stock act tune in Mexico and Mammoth Cave National Park in Kentucky which we talked about earlier this season. Yes that makes jewel cave the second longest in the the US significantly longer than any other well known caves like wind cave national park in Carlsbad Caverns National Park. Yeah it was first discovered in nineteen hundred. Read by a couple of prospectors frank. Albert Miss showed which is exciting and great. Th of December two crosses place but less great that they blew up an expanded cave entrance with dynamite now on like spectacular. I mean it was unlike anything either of them had ever seen It was dark ominous cavern cavern lined with shimmering calcium crystals out which were just so ambient and beautiful that they Immediately named Jewel Cave. I mean yeah what else. It's the most straightforward for literal sensible name. I've ever heard and the whole scene really just reminds me of the crystal minds from Snow White those like shimmering crystals and dark like magic loved it all and if we're going down that route I think freaking album will probably dock and happy if we're comparing them to dwarfs which I am okay and I feel like we have the doors were all potentially offensive. Like they're all these kind of drastic stereotype. That don't really make sense. But let's go with these two dock and happy. Yeah Doc and happy head dynamite right So they wanted to capitalize on their discovery and turned the cave into a tourist attraction So they earn money They wound up building little pathways inside inside the cave and a large and to make even more appealing they even established an organization called the jewel cave dancing club in nineteen ninety-two sounds like a fun. Time yeah I feel like that. Sounds like was like hipster esque like cocktail bars now. Yeah I think there's a place in Chicago. That could definitely make this blake. I could see it as like this kind of quasi speakeasy 'cause this had needs to be dark and talk to way to fit the cave name and then also have these shimmering colors reminiscent instead of crystals and tight that would. I think it'd be really bad for dancing. Club setting get hurt a liability the big liability. Yeah but you know it. It's a good idea especially when you're wanting to attract that very specific niche of people interested in both both dancing and caving and that's what they do they want us to do that too but sadly for them but great for everyone else their idea never caught on and they were not able to monetize monetize this however all this Hoopla did garner the attention of President Theodore Roosevelt in he. He's always coming in for the rescue and He protected the cave. By naming it jewel cave national monument way back in nineteen. Oh eight several years before the National Park Service was even established. One of the great things about this place Is that once. It was was owned by the National Park Service and it was created Park Rangers were able to give cave tours in ways that were safe and informative as opposed to tours led by I to money. Hungry pyros right. Yeah that sounds much better in one of the most amazing tidbits about all. This is how little everybody knew about the cave. At the time of the discovery and National Monument status they only knew about a couple of miles in fact when it first was created or I established until the park service employed put a couple of local rock climbers and cavers. Herb and Jan conn were fearless. Heroes my eyes. I could never do something. That's never be looked professional caver. They started exploring the cave in depth literally in nineteen fifty nine and they continued doing so for two decades two decades. That's nuts ultimately mapping more than sixty for additional miles and it hasn't stopped there either The park is constantly being mapped by new passageways. Even today and they've sends added an elevator to take visitors down there to the half mile scenic loop cave door. Yeah I you got to admire the work that these cavers do if cameras even word because my spacek didn't seem to think so but it anyway sounds outrageous K.. People or something. So that's why I'm going to use but the work that they do is just so astonishing. So impressive both in especially intimidating. My God it's like my worst claustrophobic nightmare this is world. That's just pitch black and completely quiet and solitary. It's the same temperature and humidity humidity year round which I think can be a good thing in winter. I guess especially in South Dakota but it's really just the ultimate isolation and such an unnatural and wild frontier for humans really. Yes especially since people exploring and mapping the cave today frequently camp out underground for days at a time They must be like completely fearless list and not at all freed of the dark. Yeah that's that's true. I remember while we were on our cave tour here with our little group. There was this little girl in the group who asked the Berranger. What happens if someone down in the Cape gets hurt or lost or something like that and I was like a girl I? I don't even want to know the answer to that question. It's scary you know a very For in like terrifying Ram in like don't even WanNa think about that but then they answer when it being like normal rational lake. The park just does periodic regular communication education checks. So if they don't hear back I'll go down and and find them in just rectify the situation. which was reassuring but still this cave this cave? Life is now for me when we visited jewel cave. It was an August Dan. We were driving to RV. Back East after being in Wyoming for most of July Our friend Kendall actually from Chicago he came down and flew out This was our neighbor that lived down the hall from us and it was just really cool because we just last minute he said. Hey how you guys doing and What are you guys up to? When can I join? You said you could join us after we are in Cheyenne. Just fly out and we'll drive back through Chicago and he's like Oh. I really wasn't expecting it to be that quick quick. And but he did it and it was just one of those really great times because we got to a lot of places in between the badlands. Mount Rushmore and NGO cave along the way yeah. It was a great a great time in altogether. It wound up being this really epic Americana Road trip I think all that was really missing was like Miley Cyrus Song Party. USA like blasting at full volume with our windows down. It really was their own little party. And we had a great time and there was especially nice to see Kendall again and Here's our first official guest in your V That we had a long like a traveling route. we've had people visit and see it before but no one really stayed with us. Like Kendall did It really made me feel like home again because we got to bond and just talking ketchup and this was like my best friend in Chicago like just go down into the the alleyway where his workshop was and I would talk to him. Just you know really relax and have such an amazing time. His company all the time time I wake how you you guys had hanging out in the alley. Oh Yeah that was the Nice Alley. It's not as creepy as I. It was beautiful. I mean it was remanded. Romantic in my eyes because the way that LOFTA set up. You know I mean when we say our Dream Loft. I mean it was crazy Kendall Kendall crazy with the okay yes And it was really nice too because this was more than a year into. RV`er knows about a year into our living. He was the first kind of friend to come out and like actually spend spend time and put the effort in which is like. It's about time not to like put pressure on her other friends and stuff and I'm like you guys we miss you and you. You missed us. You're constantly Tong. CMS US so how. `Bout you follow through and it's kind of hard though because like we are like like getting dark mean thrown at a moving target right. Yeah Yeah but I'm glad this worked out and it's definitely something we were needing and missing like you said and we had a great time visiting all these places together like we started in Cheyenne Wyoming coming at Cheyenne frontier days. This epic Rodeo and carnival which was spectacular and crazy and then going through rapid city and to Moines Iowa. And of course the this stop. They've decided to go book. RV Site in rapid city. which is the hub of the western part of South Dakota and accessible to all kinds of popular places like badlands and Mount Rushmore? Yeah I'm obsessed with rapid city of benefit times at this point and it's such a great place thriving there's so much to do there and and just the proximity to all these wonderful places is extraordinary hard to be. It's barely an hour from Joel Cave and the route to and from is also just superstar. You drive through the black hills and these sprawling pine forests and also these adorable historic towns like custer Kane. Yeah so Joe. Cave was our first stop on this trip. Because it's closest to the Wyoming border. We went on a week day. Didn't make any advanced reservations for any cave tours because as you can only do that on a first come first basis right there on site which is nice and it's fair. Yeah I think I actually prefer it that way because when we're at Carlsbad caverns together. I remember how unknowingly impossible it was to get tickets to most of the cave tourists because all the tickets had been snatched up like weeks prior up two months prior in some cases. Like I'm sorry but I don I don't make cave plans like a year in advance. Okay like I'm more of an impromptu caver I guess true yeah got to cave in the late morning and we were easily able to get three tickets to the door glanton tour which was a lot of fun. It was a real blast from the past. Yeah Oh definitely. I love any activity where I get to hold like this old time lantern turn Infield like a cave mining dwarf. Probably if I was going to be a one of the seven dollars I think it would be dopey. Let's be honest also. I think I'm I know currently as I'm recording. I'm wearing a hat that makes take dopey. It's like one of those like teal blue hats. It's a joke but it really is no but it's also worth noting that the tour is the only only offered during the summer from mid June through labor day and that's mostly because there is an unpaved trail you need to take to get to the store entrance with a bunch of uneven steps so I could see a gang really icy and snowy and so you just don't WanNa fall right. You don't WanNa be slipping down into the canyon. That's for sure but our tourist great. We got our tickets and we just had to wait around for about an hour before the tour started so we explored the visitor center which was awesome and had tons of information about the cave and the park including this shocking fact that you'll cave is apparently what's called a breathing cave meaning that air exits and enters the cave as atmospheric pressure changes kind of similar learn. How tides ebb and flow in the ocean? So I felt like I was walking into like Earth Slot. It was crazy we also learned a lot about the geology cave because all of those shimmering crystals didn't just show up overnight no not at all not at all most of the formation of the cave started with limestone deposited three hundred and fifty million years ago followed by more limestone in in sand stones. All of which were read it away during the geologic uplift as the black hills were farming and rising pathways started to take shape during during the Senate period as uplift continued and lowered the water table enough to clear things out and millions of years after that layers of calcium started to form along the cave walls about two point five million years ago. I mean it's a long time This is where those crystals started to form along with lots and lots of other cave formations like flow stone and stalactites and cave. Pearls in box works. Yeah and also a super rare K. formation called a hydro magnesite balloon. And and it's pretty much what it sounds like. They're made when gas inflates a malleable earth and substance. So essentially these were inflated when portions of the Cave for still delicate and pliable enough to be maneuvered maneuver by gases. Long Story Short. There's a ton to learn down there and not all underground. Apparently there was a major fire here in two thousand that burn ninety percents of the monument and he can still see lots of the remnants of those like ravaged trees in the forest surrounding the visitor center and along the road leading to the park. Yeah before we got here right never even heard of this fire or knew that happened. But it's like immediately in abundantly clear. Is You're driving theory Alex. Something happened and it's horrific. It was called the Jasper fire. It's spread to more than eighty three thousand acres of this beautiful black hills land. The park was evacuated of course enclosed for several days and National Park Service. Employees actually moved computers and documents into the cave to keep it safe just in case the visitor center itself wound up being untouched. Fortunately yeah this was also part of the reason why most of the surface was hiking. Trails were closed when we were there There aren't many trails but they are routinely closed because burn trees constantly falling on ninety days. And it's really early potentially dangerous. Yeah and also. There's really a huge difference between the this Jasper Fire and natural fires. That happened in this part of the country usually caused by things like lightning strikes. These actually have lots of benefits. The life cycle the forest because not only do they thin out. The forest so that trees are densely packed together competing for sunlight but fire adds nutrients into the soil that helps plants and animals. Yeah the Jasbir fire on the other hand was arson apparently by a Wyoming woman who was driving through and tossed a match on on the ground for some reason just to just to cause trouble or litter and then Brian the forest the ground. Who knows now when we come back from this short break we'll head underground underground at jewel cave it? 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That's Harrys Dot com code. Four four four four enjoy. Hey guys. It's bobby bones. I host the bobby bones show and I'm pretty much always sleepy because I wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple hours later later I get all my friends together and we into a room and we do a radio show wish. Is We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world that we possibly can and we look through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music too so wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point seven W M Z Q in Washington DC or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio APP. Hi Matt an umbrella. This is park land and this week's episode is on Joel Cave National Monument in South Dakota tour. So here's how the case for work for us when we got there. We got tickets right away waiter around the visitor center for a little while had some snacks Nachshon gift shop and then we wind up having to drive out of the visitor's center parking lot about a mile down the street to the historic entrance parking lot. We didn't realize it was all separated. I I but that worked out. Just fine the tour started this old Park Ranger Cabin from the nineteen thirties led by an excellent park ranger guide. Who all these interesting things in the cabin? Like vintage stove dove There was fireplaces Actually a fireplace and from here. The group headed outside of the cabin. And we all lined up in a circle to get our lanterns. Then we meander demos little path down some steps and along Canyon while the main entrance of the cave and since this is in fact a breathing cave you can actually feel cool air airport out of it. Yes and since we're there on a hot August afternoon it felt amazing like all natural pure air conditioning. It was great. The historic entrance has a locked gate for obvious reasons to keep people and animals But once the guy unlocked it we all went inside and had them light are lanterns. One at a time It was nice and cool inside a consistent temperature about like forty nine degrees. I believe And so we do bring in some late layers there's You definitely need some sturdy hiking shoes because these tours definitely require more maneuvering because there's definite uneven rocky surfaces right right yeah so. The store was super immersive and it was cool because we got to feel like what it was like to be. The earliest explorers here are navigating these narrow dark passageways for the very first time time there are a lot of stairs that went up and down through tight openings and also low ceilings. So Watch your head. I think I bought my head at least once but I just played it off. Oh yeah absolutely absolutely I mean ultimately though the tour leads to these wide open chambers have plenty of room like the heavenly room They got his name from this crystal formation on the ceiling that apparently looks like Madonna Madonna into China Gorgeous. Yeah this is also the part of the tour where everyone Kinda sits down somewhere. In the guy it has alternate are lanterns. So that we're in total darkness. I did this when I was at Carlsbad. Caverns for the first time. And it's always such a surreal experience to be an utter darkness like this. You could like literally put your hand right in front of your face and you'll never see it. You won't see it then you're never just because there's no light whatsoever so there's nothing for your eyes to adjust to and it's the wildest eldest experience. Yeah I mean it's really not a scary thing actually quite calming and in this natural and primitive way. Ah It is. This tour takes about one hour and forty five minutes total altogether. It's like half mile round trip but it is marked as strenuous since there are steep passages and narrow zero openings and it requires climbing someone stops that are essentially just ladders. Like you're you're using your hands for a lot of two. They're not just like traditional stairs and there's also an age limit element of eight years old like you need to be at least eight to Beth. Another thing to point out is that there's white nose syndrome This is a disease that affects bats in in certain parts of the country in certain ways and this is one of them. it's harmless to humans. But we can transmit it so he's doing the same Chinese or clothing in one cave and then bring it to another another. That's how it transmits. Yes so you have to be mindful of that so when you're leaving Joel Cave. They actually have you walked through this cleansing solution to like clean and San. Hose your shoes but tell you should absolutely not wear them in any other cave just for this for the sake of the bats. Better safe than sorry. Yeah we didn't see any bats while we were here But they are definitely the park's most popular animal There are nine different species of bats live in this cave and six of them live there full year round. Yeah Yeah we actually really didn't see many animals here in general when you when now that we think about a but other wildlife that lives in the area includes whitetail deer meal deer elk doc and eastern cotton tail rabbits. So basically all the things you'd expect to see dancing along the background of a Snow White Song basically which fetes and also There are a few more tours. You can do it too. Including the scenic tour which is the most popular It's also easier and less intimidating since it's a paved trail with lighting and you can access sound elevator directly from the visitor center. Yeah the reason it's so popular is because this is where all those jewels are like the caves namesake specimens or most of them anyway because when people think of Joe Cave they think of the shimmering crystals and when you do this story you'll see a ton of them it's just super bright and colorful it honestly. It looks like at least frank folder down here. It's super vivid. Oh man and there's also a wild caving tours Since every national park cave has there's something intense like that. Yeah Yeah we haven't done any of these yet because I'm terrified didn't I don't I honestly don't know if I have the bravery to do it. Maybe one day the one who acquires the hard hat and a headlamp and lots and lots of crawling. The main reason I think I wanna do this one in particular though because the camp formations here have the most amazing names names including hurricane corner. Martha's Kettle Roller Roller Coaster and brain drain. I mean they all sound like a six five waterpark. There's something there there are great. I have expect them to sell down their city. Or whatever really WanNa talk about is our lifestyle within the RV and it's really this thing that can be difficult to discuss sir talk about because you only have so much base you know. We live in twenty six feet of space by about like eight to nine feet wide and so so when people travel with us. When we're with other people gets a little bit harder to navigate our normal light like daily lifestyle and finding finding that is kind of a little bit more difficult so we try to make it really homey for visitors well like also like laying this in education them like how we move around it? It's not easy. No and people are fascinated by that so they experienced firsthand. This is our first kind of test. Ron I guess of having like A. I'd asked for a longer than a few hours. Yeah and candidate great. I remember one point. He actually just jumped up on the roof and he lay down there while we're in Japan A and and it was just great because I'm like yes you are using the RV you're living at your loving it like perfect and that's the best part about kill you just makes himself right at home and he knows how to respect like boundaries and things like that and so That was probably one of my favorite parts about this is like finding that like appropriate guest. Mo.. Oh you're on the move. It's a lot easier to have multiple people because we're getting in and out of the RV all the time and you know we're driving so like you know you can lay back. Yeah it was the first time I I didn't have like I took like the wheel five hours and I got to sit in the back and experience it for the first time for me. Yeah it's crazy it's nice right. I'm still waiting for the day. They take the wheel. Which you've been talking about? I've been promising that for like a year and a half dangling in front of you. Like a carrot. Yeah well it's a carrot. I'm running after so But you know we really care about how travel and how to keep our personal spaces and and so when people come in just we want to help. Guide them into our lifestyle which there's the first time we had that chance and so we made mistakes mistakes and there's things that we could have done better and you know but basically it was a learning experience. Yes it was. It was very comfy. We made it feel homey you you brought out your cocktail skills again. which hadn't used in awhile? Yeah I've just I was trained. I was doing Rodeo after Rodeo Rodeo. And that was one that was so great that will like one night the one of the first or second nights at Kennels with senior like who wants cocktails and we're both like you know Yeah but time. My cocktails You you know we really got to have our fair share in rapid city. Yeah we definitely do we drink it up I love rapids so this is my third time in rapid city. I was here. I as part of a work trip which talked about in the badlands episode. And that's what swept me up with this whole part of the state part of the country and how much I love it and endure it and then I was here here again on May own only passing through but kind of reacquainting myself with this wonderful little city in western South Dakota and then this I was super excited about because I to experience it with you and with Kendall and then go back to some of my favorite spots here as well as do some new things and go to new places linked to place that we got to go to that That mini any coffee. Pirate's cove love periscope. So yeah I was super excited. I remember driving by seeing a parrots Goldman and golf. And I'm like well. We need to do that because I grew up. There was like like a pirates. Coast somewhere in New Hampshire where I grew up and for me. It's always been like. The quintessential mini golf course. So I knew that they were kind of a chain like a national chain but not super ubiquitous. So they're kind of hard to find also would have been the same one. I mean different. It's not identical but like the same. I Guess Style and challenge challenge level and whatnot. That's awesome and it was great. It was a lot of fun and I mean I didn't do well. I did worse than I thought. In spite of that it was great Kendall one and he like never plays mini golf so yeah and this are revived. That we stayed at that was only for like a day right. It was a couple couple of nights. I think we didn't spend much time there because obviously we're off doing stuff during the day. Yeah it was two nights because we win there be went mini golfing in that kind of stuff but then we went to like Mount Rushmore crazy horse and then came back to that. Oh yeah so. We got to do a lot in rapid city so I remember the hotel Alex Johnson like rooftop bar. Yes that's my favorite so that hotel is just great. It's historic it's the most historic hotel in town. It's also huge. It's like one of the one of the taller the tallest building in rapid city. So it stands out. has this big conic like Alex. Alex Jones and sign on top of it hard to us and they have really good drinks up there too at the at the bar. And there's a substantial substantial indoor section and then also to different patio Dax there's one mic on the second like even above the main bar so it was beautiful so we sent out on the Patio we've got and they have like little fire pits if it gets chilly but we are perfect. It was perfect late afternoon early evening. But was that cocktail that you got so my favorite thing to get there. Which had a few times to this? Point is the old Manhattan. And it's called that because it's across thirteen in Manhattan in an old fashioned Lovin. So elements of both of my favorite drinks brings with like bourbon and blood orange core vermouth bidders and then cinnamon syrup which really makes it. Yeah just like a perfect little spot to chill for a couple of minutes and we love and we're in new cities to just grab like a cocktail and a snack and bouncing around jump around and we got snacks there but By the way yeah. This hotels allegedly haunted Ted. Who I don't think I told you that were there because they didn't want to frighten you? Oh but You would just care self. Yeah I would probably just scare myself but when I so I stayed suspension night here like in two thousand sixteen by myself and that's when I learned about it and I was I learned about it like the NATO's checking in and I'm like wow. I wish you wouldn't have told me that. And I'm not going to be able to sleep. But I think there's one specific flora that's supposedly haunted floor and there's been like hotel staff that have like I heard things that late at night and like run off the floor and I'm like what that's that's dreadful so I was like on pins and needles when I was sleeping here and listening. Karenni noises or creeks or footsteps running down the hall or anything like that. It's okay was coming. I know coming coming. I wound up being fine to deer that in the background for her but then we jumped to that little like coffee shop because after after the cocktail during the day you got to jump over to the cock cocktails jobs coffee shops which would be like what was called? Harriet in Carrie Ann Oak. Yeah that's that place. Yeah yeah so cool inside. The building is so cool because there's that vw Van Parkinson unlike home. Yeah and you can just go in and sit internet. Let's go hang out pretty awesome. And they have great food like really impressive snacks and dishes and stuff. Like I had a keen watt breakfast ball here one time ousting assisting and then they have like really interesting pastries and like Burritos and then like wonderful coffee drinks. Low Tastes Mike. I think they have Thai coffee. which is my favorite thank? You cannot not get that when a brilliant and a lofted second floor is laden really opened great for plan lots of like creatives base. It'd be a great place to work while you're like you know traveling through yes agreed and then after this we literally just walked into the block to see the brand new president. Ah Statue yes which they. The city erected so rapid city is known for these presidential statues. Every president has some specific statue like position somewhere in town in the downtown area. I'm like a different intersection and so it was a big deal for the Obama unveiling which only happened like a few weeks prior to us being here so the timing is great and this one was awesome so the abutment statue shows him holding hands with Sasha Obama when she was much younger than she currently breath yeah because that was that ECOMOG image when he walked on stage for his presidential acceptance speech right yes useful like The really good statue that you on that memorialize his presidency. Yeah I loved it and then I think from here we continued to wander and we wound up having dinner at this restaurant called hauled coal. Ko L. again. I had been here before in new. I love Dan. Why don't you go back with you? Guys in it was wonderful. It's like a very monitoring hiring stylish restaurant with woodfired food and great cocktails and snacks and stuff and we had amazing old-fashioned here as well. Yeah I remember Kelly he is like how do you make your old fashioned. Because you know when you're traveling you have to ask because if you start to say muddled. I'm not getting it beer. And then she was like. Oh Yeah we do this as perf yet so they they know how to make their old fashioned. Cocktails are not like outdated is nice surfaces veered is I think the fears which did love to see that. Yeah that's a good sign. Any big ice doesn't melt and water down your drink right. Yeah so that was awesome. Great Time in rapid city. And you hit on your work. You did much more than what we got to do. What we're a couple of those things? Well I also went to when I was here for my workshop had dinner at Cole. And they went around the corner to this arcade bar this sub training arcade bar which the blast obviously. Yeah I don't know I think I mentioned that you guys just didn't acknowledge me And then also I went to this place firehouse during which is like one of the oldest brewpubs in the state if not the oldest just delicious. It's then this kind of fire depot who really great beers and unlike kind of local food you can get like Bison burgers and stuff like that really solid great great vibe and then I also love the journey museum and Learning Center. which was this really immersive? Incredible like native American Museum and I would love to go back there and I can spend hours and hours. There was so much to see exhibits. You could wander through learning about the history of the native peoples of the area of the DAKOTAS. Because I mean that's that's what this land was was built on the South Dakota's known for and it's you see it everywhere so it's nice to see it honored in this way in a in a beautiful venue like this so we next time. We're passing through. We'll we'll have more time. That's for sure because we'll be rushing across the country but now we're going to take a quick break when we come back. We'll talk to Mike. wiles jewel caves saves chief of resource management. FAMILY'S SECRETS IT turns out the just about everyone has which accounts for the incredible outpouring of community and sharing of these stories. That's happening as a result of my podcast family secrets. What's my name? Is Dan Shapiro. And a writer author of the instant New York Times bestselling memoir inheritance which I wrote after discovering a massive of secret that had been kept from me all my life. That discovery changed my life in good ways and hard ways and led to this podcast. I hope pule join us for some incredible conversations about family identity and what happens to both when the secrets that have been kept from us and the secrets. We keep finally come to might listen and subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts Ohio Hi Matt and I'm Brad. This is Park Land Area and today we're talking about Joe Cave National Monument in South Dakota. We are excited to have our first park ranger on today. And that is Mike wiles. Joel Caves Chief of of resource management. Mike spoke to us over the phone From the office NGO Cave National Monument so your title is chief of Resource Management demand. Could you explain to us what that means. I oversee all the resource management both cultural and natural Including our museum collection and Whether and that includes things That are on the surface down in the cave whether it's Veg Management you know exotic plant management or cave exploration or scientific research while kind of the the whole gamut of things right. Wow I mean it's only the second longest Longest cave in America. So that's not a big big job at all right the longest in the world. Yes it's truly fascinating that's why we loved Coming to Cave National Monument this year sure So when we were talking Matinee we were just like this is such an amazing opportunity to talk with like a a real life park ground China where we are you're like are rockstars and And really because just what you know this environment needs is is just more people to protect it So we WANNA be better allies to that and one thing what we've done is we've heard that you've toured a quite the caves yourself like how far the caves have you explored and what have you learned about the place through your exploration. Oh Boy Well first of all we we've had as a cave not not in the pleural okay Although it's a very big cave system we've got Two hundred eight miles right now now and Back in fifty nine. We only had about two miles. So all of this has happened in the last several decades it's it's gone from being a very small cave that People some people thought should be closed because it didn't really live up to park service standards to being a very well known world-class gave so I got involved in it back around. Nineteen in seventy nine. I believe possibly the year before For a couple of trips and gradually I became interested in it. contacted herb and Jan conn explorers at the time and they invited me in to accompany them and I became the I kind of became the person that they were looking for to take over. And they will my mentors for a couple of years and So I followed in their footsteps with day day trips that lasted. Oh Ten to twelve hours and as we the Continued exploring a we got farther and farther out and it turned into fourteen and sixteen and eighteen our trips the distance and to the far end of the cave for me at that time if he were to go straight to the end of the caves was about ten hours Before that before that we we never went all the way out before we established a camp that was only like a seven or eight hours in And then like the next morning we would go out and Another three hours to get to the end of the cave. The people that are exploring now a whole younger generation are kind of going off in the opposite end of the cave. And I think it's taking close to To if they were to go a to the very end it's over twelve hours But they've got a camps along the way so that they can Stage their efforts the the whole thing is underneath four square miles so it it just kind of winds around its amazed in three dimensions. And so the sum of all those different sections of passages at all those levels totals to be two hundred eight miles. Uh now give you a little bit of an idea of the framework that we're weighing in Lots of mileage But it's all underneath a a fairly small area And I think over the years when we average our our rate of progress in the cave. You've I mean for actual travel where it's usually averages out to be about a mile an hour. Well Well I. I had no idea about that. That does all within like four square miles jewel cave as barometric wind and that means that it responds to pressure changes outside right yes. The pressure drops one percent about one percent of the total volume of cave including the part. That hasn't been discovered will blow out wrote so you can measure what the one percent is. And you can protect protect you can predict the volume that e in including the part that hasn't been discovered and based on these estimates which are much more involved in what I just described We've only discovered three percent of the cave. Our so far most of it is still out there to be discovered. I think that's one of the one of the factors that really ignites imagination We none of us will ever get out to the end of the cave because it's so much bigger than than we can do in a generation's time and and right now we're on a third generation of exploration and you've only been doing this for forty years out of man. I actively exploring exploring for thirty of those forty years not not the last ten and And this younger younger crew has been doing most of the work in the last ten years. Well that's incredible. Yeah so I I was just wondering what are some of the biggest struggles or challenges of caving. When you're that deep into the earth like that well I think it's the sure a duration of travel to get out to the end even mammoth cave Have so many entrances that it's only like three or four hours from any given entrance to to get to the end of the cave there and That puts a different perspective on things. I'll say at least for me and I think for most of the others that as we become familiar with the cave we learn all the learn how to maneuver through all the little climbs news and the crawls and the twist and the turns a lot of unique moves that you've got to learn and once you've learned it well it becomes almost almost automatic and it's it's so much fun to just have that self confidence did know how to step across this rock and then slide over to this wall and then clamber up into A whole on a ledge through that And I think most of the cavers have Developed this appreciation for the journey itself. So they go exploring to find all that unknown stuff out there that we know must be there because of the wind but we and that that's the reason we go and we and sometimes we wish we didn't have to make the long journey. But I think most of us have come to grips with the journey. Half the fun. Oh Yeah The other thing is In Jul- cave we don't have streams rivers that could carry away human waist or that could regenerate it Impacts after you know because of flooding or something like that. Yeah so we have to carry out all of our our wastes all of our garbage all of our human ways and That that's Kinda hard to you so you Like when you pee pee into a bottle and then you gotta carry out all those bottles and they weigh about two pounds per courts and If you've got a lot of courts that you that you have to haul that's a lot of A lot of extra weight that really would rather not have to be super important because of the ecosystems. You don't want to change that. Yeah if there was a stream there then at least at least for for that would be minor you get diluted. Animals animals do that outdoors. It's no big deal But we don't have that and so we can't just stash These things away someplace replacing. Hope it'll go away because they never will That is absolutely fascinating. I mean just never been truly caving. Urban Jan seemed like they've made a huge impact on your life and we talked about them earlier in the episode and some of their education but the beauty of it is how it gets passed down from generation to generation because the yes ran into contrary surely the What they did the caves in real pragmatic terms is just a hole in the ground and and it can be dangerous? If you're not prepared I'm not trying to say there's no risk at all but the attitude that they passed down as far Chris Caring for the cave as far as respecting it. Having Fun while you're in there A really kind of lighthearted a satisfying spin Dan They pass that attitude down to me and to the younger the younger folks now and That our attitude toward the cave really doesn't make the difference and We owe that Hartmann Jan Yeah. That's really cool. Because I know just personally and from talking with people all caves can potentially have the stigma of being terrifying claustrophobic places. And it's really inspiring to see that stigma stigma be broken down a little bit and right applied. I I think it makes it safer You can't you always have to beware at this is a potentially dangerous place. It all it almost all hinges on you if you have the right attitude. If you're in good caving shape if you're prepared pared the way you should be if you're working together as a team then it's the you know one of the questions you have is. What do I really want people to know? No and it's that it doesn't have to be the dangerous of scary place at all. Yeah and that's great that like I think that motivates and further inspires us and and does likewise for listeners and people who are potentially considering visiting caves whether it's for the first time or return trips or or anything I love that mindset sat. It's really reset. Yeah how does one specifically get into caving nowadays The best way is to go caving saving with a friend who already does that And then the next thing is the national spelling logical society. He is probably the the main caving organization in this country and they have local chapters. Not you know not in every town but wherever ever cavers have gotten organized and become part of the NSS Then then they've they've established clubs that you you can go to the meetings and see slide shows and get to know people and go on planned trip starting from easy ones and and if you really really like it graduating onto very difficult caving trips like what did what did you were you to jewel cave and Like what do you find personally fascinating about jewel case specifically when you first started. When I first started I I started as a result of sitting sitting in on a slide presentation given by herb and Jan.? They're very mild mannered unassuming people. Herb passed away several years ago. John is still alive in her mid nineties And they had a way of making this idea of explorer expert exploring exploring a cave Making it fun and friendly rather than daring and dangerous and A lot of people do Kinda the view it and treat it as daring and dangerous for them and for me. It was fun and I think a lot of it was just that fun that Censu- fund that you could Be Involved in the sense of the unexpected of not knowing. What's around the next corner and wondering how far it goes in and even why? Why just stop here? You have a nice big passage and it just stops so you want it to go. You want it to go on forever when I Started caving. I really didn't know what I WANNA do with my life. I was in school. Cool as a key to get a mass attempt to get their bachelor's in chemical engineering but I wasn't ready for the world and as I interviewed with the companies. It was obvious to them. I'm and I wasn't ready either But I had gotten involved in this caving thing. I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. With my life The caving part really brought me in that Gave me experience and expertise that led to me to be a tour guide. Ah Jewel Cave. And then as time went on The parks created a cave management position and I applied for and got at that that job as the case specialist And then as time went on I went back to school and I got a master's in geological engineering being with kind of an emphasis on hydrology and that opened doors for me to be more involved with the kinds of projects that are going on here going going on here and and leading some of those projects to where a small park. We have a small staff so we all have to wear many hats and and so as the years went by ended up expanding my role Or my role became expanded to dealing with like okay. I mentioned earlier exotic plant management consulting on a highway project that was going through the park doing Handling the research whether it's I don't do all the research but still guiding the research and trying to bring in the the studies for Like for instance five years ago. The the cavers discovered begins discovering lakes. Where the cave Intercepts the water table. And that's giving me an opportunity to be a CO author with the US GS and so I was a young kid who didn't know what he wanted to do. And now I I've been able to do all this wide range of stuff Even working with our museum collection and even a little bit of trouble consultation which you If you knew me say that doesn't sound like Mike at all But has really expanded my horizons and I'm able to do so many more things than I ever even dreamed of. Because because this caving thing kind of Brought me into brought me into a place that ultimately led to All these other things and you know I think my heart is still with the cave but I enjoy what I'm doing all these aspects speechless like you're it was very inspiring really cool to hear. I just love that. There's that much passion in people who are protecting preserving discovering our national parks and so we're especially excited to speak with you today Mike wiles. Thank you so much Hi I'm Matt and Brad this Park Land area and today we're talking about Joe Cave National Monument in South Dakota Ecology and we're introducing thing our ecological concept of disease because within cave systems There's definitely a lot of different particulars but diseases is definitely important to our ecosystem in multiple choice right and it's a little more complex a lot more complex than one might assume about disease so populations within an ecosystem are always fluctuating. And one thing that can really affect the system is disease even just one species easies ecologists have only recently begun to realize that disease is actually an integral part of an ecosystem. In fact there's all entire field of disease visa college like the study of diseases and that's pretty hot right now pretty hot. Yeah but just because diseases natural. That doesn't mean they're influenced doesn't occasionally the only way to spectacular die-offs either and that the effects of disease in an ecosystem isn't hard to watch. Yeah take for instance white nose syndrome which is killed millions of bats? North America since it was first identified in two thousand six White Nose Syndrome is actually a fungus that grows in cool damp in places like caves. Yeah and it impacts bats while they're hibernating leaving a white fuzz and their faces and it changes the bats behavior waking them up from hibernation and sometimes making them do weird stuff lay file tied the cave and the day time in the middle of winter which is not what they should be doing which it kills the bats by making it difficult to hibernate which burns through a lot of fat reserves that keep them alive until the summer right and this results in the claps of entire are colonies of bats which are really important members of cave communities because their Guano is the main source of food for species that only live in caves await nose syndrome was first identified in in caves around New York The fungus has been steadily moving across the US There was this terror to have infected jewel cave in about two thousand eighteen In the long legged bats that live there right so the National Park Service is working to reduce the risk of infection in bats. Here and the National Park Park Service has been dealing with white knows German other caves systems that we've talked about like mammoth cave in Carlsbad caverns by making sure. Visitors are educated. About what white eight no syndrome which includes letting them know that they should stay out of caves and other habitats like minds and alert federal or State Wildlife Agency. If you see the about flying around in daylight or when it's cold outside the park service is also asking visitors to decontaminate. They're caving hiking gear before entering any gave. Yeah Yeah keep everything sanitizer. Not like do you know bringing diseases into unaffected caves or anything like that and although white nose syndrome and other diseases like the kitchen Richard Fungus. That's decimating frog and salamander populations all over the world. It's important to remember that disease is a normal important aspect of ecosystems. Yeah in in the case of white nose syndrome. Human involvement in caves has probably sped up the spread of it but some researchers even think it's on the rise by Ben brought up by human driven climate change but changing ecosystems is inevitable So it's good to acknowledge that disease is an important driver of of changing itself. Yeah so when like visiting caves you know you really want to make sure that you are helping protect the bats by cleaning your equipment and your shoes and your your gear ear Because we don't want them to disappear. Go Away no definitely and if you've worn shoes in other cave on another tower somewhere the mindful of that and don't wear those shoes into jewel cave 'cause better safe than sorry and keep the bat safe my favorite. But I think it's the perfect time to wrap things up with Jewel Cave National Monument Let's share what our favorite favorite part of this national monument is. I think for me it was mostly about learning some of the most incredible facts of ever learned at our National Park site and that includes leads the fact that you'll gave a briefing cave. I had never heard that term. Not only was it fascinating to learn about but also felt felt great physically that how big NBA breathing. And then also the Joe Cave like dancing club thing I think is absurd and wonderful and and I love Peter Really missing out right a local like restaurant business like jewel cave dance. It's a club like do it get it. Let's have fun with it. I really admire the audacity of the of like the cave discovers you wanted on into create this dance club in a cave. It's outrageous and beautiful. Just very creative is it didn't work out marketing in. It's finest. Yeah yeah true. So this is just filled with that and you learn about on the tour and visitor centre and I walked away feeling so informed and delighted and it was really fun so I would say that type of stuff was my favorite part about jewel cave and there's definitely a couple the things they need to bring. Yeah for sure. So if we're going to jewel cave and you're presumably doing your cave tar because you need to there you know you got to do about. What are you? Bring it every cave tour or any every cave it's pretty much across the years layers yes Because like we said it's about forty degrees. It's chilly it might. It might feel good if you're going there in the summer but still like bring some light layers at least you to be comfortable in there because you do spend a good amount of time on the Cape obtain the shortest cave tours are like an hour and a half. So you're going to want to make sure that you're you're not freezing and I swear we're gonNA take this again is at least one liter of water bring water water brain. I mean obviously any physical activity but again it kind of you're doing the going up and down stairs you're squeezing the passes rates. It's more exhausting than you might think. Initially so be prepared for that also the proper footware or boots with good firm grip because breath. The surfaces are very uneven. The least and you don't want to be slipping and sliding and like crashing into walls or bang your head on the ceiling or anything like that. So the definitely not whatever ever you can do to come in. Physically prepared and comfortable is is really pivotal here. Now between the talk of jewel the singer Snow Way Whiskey and shimmering crystals I'd say this episode has been a huge success yes absolutely I mean it's fitting because jewel cave national monument is a gem and the National Park Service. Yeah nicely is that a literal gem. You've been listening to park land. Yeah a show about National Parks EXC Park Land. As to production of iheartradio created by Matt Carroll Wak Brad Care Wack and Christopher has the eldest produced an edited by Mike. John's our executive producer is Christopher has has Yoda's our researcher is Justin Shield especial thanks goes out to Gabrielle Collins Crystal Waters and the rest of the park lane the crew and hey listeners. If you're enjoying the show leave. Missile Reviewing Apple podcasts. It helps other people like you find our show. You can keep up with us on social media as well check out photos from travels on Instagram at Park. Alenia pod and join in on the conversation and our facebook group Park Landale Rangers from our podcast. My heart radio. visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows breath and as always thank you for listening. How do you find a new way forward when suddenly you have to ready or not? Maybe you're relocating or having your first baby or leaving a relationship Asian ship just starting or just starting over on the road to somewhere we talk about all of it getting really honest and we definitely laugh our way through it it. That's the beauty of this journey. I'm Lisa Oz and I'm Jill Hers Egg join us as we navigate our own. Big Life changes on our podcast the road to somewhere. Listen onto the road to somewhere on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast I'm shooter. I'm America's number one gossip columnist. I want to tell you about my new celebrity. podcast Naughty but nice with rob shooter every Monday through Thursday. I'll be joined by some of my fellow gossip reporters as a maybe even a celebrity or to to serve up the freshest T. Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. It's over wherever you get your favorite shows.

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Jewel Will Save Your Soul

The Women

37:53 min | 3 months ago

Jewel Will Save Your Soul

"Iheartradio and state farm. No the graduation stage is the first of many and while grads may not be walking across one this year. They can get the send-off they've always dreamed of with our new podcast. Commencement featuring inspiring speeches from the biggest names like John Legend Katie couric and cashew listened iheartradio. New podcast commencement brought to you. By state farm speeches are now available on iheartradio APP. Or wherever you get your podcasts and remember state farm will be there for this stage and every stage after like a good neighbor state farm. Is there one of the things I really fought against in my early career was when people would say was optimistic as if it was a dirty word? I was a shocking because I was raised arcing. I had been being propositioned by men since I was a I had seen the greediest seediest elements of humanity at Seen People get leveraged my whole life and I remember making this being saying. I'm going to write the most honest songs. I can find a place to sing and I'm going to tell the truth and I'm not going to cover it up. It's funny talking about it. Like makes emotional. I remember that time so well. At how frightening was that decision? And how committed I was and how much courage it took for me. Joel began singing when she was just a kid. She performed mostly in bars with her parents as family singing group touring around Alaska's tourist attractions rom left when she was eight years old and Joel decided to leave home when she was fifteen her. Dad's suffered from alcoholism and could be abusive. Joe Began to support herself and even put herself through a prestigious art. High School in Michigan. Joel was living in her car again when she was discovered at nineteen and nineteen ninety five at the age of twenty one. She released her first album view. A I don't think I'm alone when I say that. That album had a profound impact on girls everywhere. It came at the height of grunge and through the domination of Nirvana and ace of base and smooth RB GROUPS. This heart-wrenching lyricist a young girl. Who Sang exactly what she saw. When I told my friends I'd be talking to jewel for the women. I was flooded with text messages. All of them were calling what it felt like to hear someone singing about emotions heartache. And inequality exactly as they saw and experienced themselves pieces of you didn't chart immediately and after two years when jewel became Bob. Dylan's opener her. Single who will save your soul finally got played on the radio well since then pieces of you has gone platinum selling over twelve million copies making it one of the most successful debut albums and it's even been listed in the rock and Roll Hall of fame and Jill describes how songwriting really opened up. This whole new world for her was my first taste of vulnerability was my first taste in the power and the freedom that the courage to be vulnerable allows you welcome to the women are production of iheartradio. Myself rose read today. I'm speaking Joel Kilter. Originally from Alaska Jewel has released a dozen albums over two dozen singles and has published several memoirs. Her interests has been on her journey from homelessness to fame and over the past decade. She's focused on breaking the stigmas around mental health. Making resources in tools and strategies more accessible mental health has been. I BELIEVE OUR WORLD'S BIGGEST CRISIS. Because if you look at issues. That seem very unrelated. Let's say me too. In Gun violence or a opioid addiction and suicide rates or apathy. Environmental Pollution They seem like really different causes. But to me. The underlying thing. The elegant solution is mental health and during the Cova outbreak jewel has been raising money for homeless youth live streaming concerts in partnership with her never broken charity. Music and songwriting are still passion for her. She just released a new single grateful and has a new album. That's coming out. But her primary focus has always been very clear to her. I will do this if I make myself one. Promise that my number one job is to figure out how to be happy. Still my number two jobs to figure out how to be a musician. I spoke to jewel over the phone and I wanted to know how her pursuit her pursuit to write songs. And saying and just be happy where that really began and her adolescents. I moved out at fifteen. I came from an abusive background. I I didn't want to be a statistic. I resented the fact that to me. The best form of rebellion was figuring out how to be happy and I took it seriously. I really attacked it was always. How do I figure out how to be happy? You know. Sometimes I'm I'm actually put off by how celebrities talk about mental health. Sometimes it can come across as toned up but I have to say that one thing. That isn't superficial. When you talk about it is that you share so much of yourself and A lot of details about your own personal story. Yeah one of the things I really fought against in my early career was when people would say I was optimistic. If it was a dirty word the reason it was thought of as a dirty word was because the word naive followed quickly thereafter and I was of shocking because I was raised singing I had been being propositioned by men since I was eight. Man Put a diamond my hand unfold my fingers around it and say. Call me when you're eighteen. You're going to be great to fuck when you're older cheeses. I had seen the greediest seediest elements of humanity. You know I ended up living in my car because I wouldn't have sex with a boss At See People. Get leveraged my whole life. I'd seen people try to leverage me. I'll tell you that's how you ended up living in your car being homeless that was the actual catalyst when I would see with my boss. Yeah it was funny and the press. Somehow that time in my life was depicted as I was wanting to live my greens and I lifted my car for my music. That was not the case I was working at a computer. Warehouse barely making ends meet Supporting my mom who was sick and my boss propositioned me and joked it off and I went in from paycheck the next day and he wouldn't pay me wouldn't talk to me wouldn't look at me. Oh My god Nord Music. I was a ghost in the office. Like you do that. He just kept looking at his papers. and I left knowing I was going to get kicked out where I was living. My rent was late my landlord. I was just late so often on my rent. I knew that was it so I knew leaving bat cried in the parking lot. Carving how do I tell literally my sick mother that we have to move out of our place? And that's when I started living in my car and I thought no big deal. It'll be a couple of months. I'll get back on my feet. I'll get a new job but I was sick and I was having panic attacks. I had kidney problems actually almost died in the parking lot and I'm an emergency room hospital because they wouldn't see me because I didn't have insurance and I just know I was really sick. I was throwing up later. Doctor said that subsists But a doctor. Cmih get turned away and he came out and tapped on my window and I was covered my involvement in the passenger to sick to drive anywhere and he saved my life. He gave me antibiotics. Like sample kit of antibiotics saved my life. Things just really declined for me. Yeah and is this when you began to shoplift because I was during the time? I was shoplifting Mostly food but I remember one day I was in a store and I was trying to steal address and I saw my reflection in the mirror of trying to shove this white. Flowery pretty clean dress into my baggy five ones and I realized like in one sudden moment like I was going to end up in jail or dead. If I didn't figure something out. I vowed when I was eight to never drink or do drugs because I saw these drunks in bars trying to cover a pain. Things were getting weird. became abusive. It was getting complex complicated but at least might journal was their way committed to myself to at least witnessing myself honestly not because I wanted to be a writer but because I found that type of honesty riveting and liberating and I realized you know a lot of us when we're young. We start changing our behaviors to get love but my response stealing gave me a reward. Made me feel control before powerful very exciting and so I committed myself to sing. If I could get addicted to something healthy so I started committing myself to writing. And so it's going to reverse engineer up into my thoughts by watching my hands and taking studious small dead. He didn't wasn't able to change behaviors right away but I just committed to noticing them not shaming myself not disassociating but just witnessing what they did and writing them down but with. I'd say pretty shortly in two or three weeks I had to just every time I wanted to steal made myself right. And then my body got sensitized. To a very different reward. My Body felt different than when I stole when I stole. It was exciting my whole body contract it but when I wrote everything dilated and I started that there were those two states and it just became a very productive year from where I just I learned so much really through observation while it's easy for me to think that this is what you're going through when you were writing the songs for pieces of you a still have that CD and my CD case and I just looked at a recently and I saw that I had written my name on it so no one could steal it and think that there's I wrote rose read on the white part I of course would never right over your face. I feel like on that album even with the first song. You were telling the world exactly who you are and who will save your soul the song your voice changes really quickly and you give us the full range you sing with your head you sing with your throat and it comes up easily at times almost whispering something that's really defined you. Is this kind of honest exposition. When I was homeless I was so alone and I remember making this Berry Lake Hoof courageous very conscious thing saying. I'm going to write the most honest. I can when to find a place to sing and I'm GonNa just tell the truth and I'm not going to cover it up. It's funny talking about like makes me get emotional. Remember that time. Well of how frightening that was that decision and how committed I was and how much courage it took for me on when you brought bar singing using five hour set so I thought I had to do five hours sets in this coffee shop I found and so I wrote a lot of material and remember. There's two people. There's two surfers and icing a five hour set to surfers and I it was like you might as well just cut my veins open as I just emotionally vomited over the stage. It was ugly and beautiful and honest did wretched and all kinds of things. Anna bless US guys hearts. They came up to me that tears in their eyes. Remember in the League. We didn't know other people felt like this and I had tears in my eyes and I didn't other people felt like this either and it was. My first taste of vulnerability was my first taste in the power and the freedom. The Courage to be vulnerable allows you and it was addictive like that was addictive and I never really looked back. I just decided to try and always tell the ugly truth And what awaited took off of my shoulders. You know one thing that I wanted to ask you. I noticed that there's audience clapping at the end of some of the songs on pieces of you. Was this your choice. Where they recorded live What's the story with that because he's I suck in the studio is what that was. I was terrible in the studio so self conscious Live singing my whole life. Yeah Tar was new. I'd only learned it a couple years prior to that record. So Am I so you learn guitar on your own. Not Not at home with your family. I learned guitar when I went away when I was probably sixteen Wholesaler Seoul was the first song I wrote so wanted to hitchhike across America through Mexico for spring breaks. I couldn't afford to get back to Alaska from where I was going to school in Michigan. I realized you weren't allowed to stay on campus for spring break or winter break and so I asked my dad to ship or guitar down. Hit An extra guitar and he shipped to me and I just thought I learned a few chords and I would improvise lyrics on streets to earn money to get across the country and so I learned a minor. Cg indeed in that order. And then I started making up lyrics and some lyrics would kind of stick and I remember them. Write them down and took this whole two week. Adventure hopping trains through Mexico and hitchhiking through Mexico and made it back to school and just kept writing full save. Your soul was probably three hundred vs or something and it was me. I fell in love like ashes. Fellow lava songwriting. It just felt really good. You know even your earliest videos. We can see you playing the Cousteau Guitar. And while you've been doing your quarantine concerts. You always make sure that the audience can see you play so over the past few decades. You've made a really conscious decision. It seems for people to see physically playing the guitar. I never thought I was a particularly proficient guitar player. Especially when I was young like in the studio I did feel confident in my ability to make people feel things I did feel confident in truth and that nothing is more riveting than the truth Few can figure out how to find the right combination of words and Vocal Tone Guitar Chords and create that whole thing. Together you can viscerally impact people That's a really beautiful very powerful thing. It's a powerful thing for a woman at something I hope every woman can feel Scifo competent and bad. It took me a long time to realize and other musicians being around me to start to Value Mike Guitar style mice style of playing when I got signed and discovered I almost inside my record deal because that authenticity and that honesty I made the again a real conscious decision of I will do this if I make myself one. Promise that my number one job is to figure out how to be happy. Still my number two jobs to figure out how to be a musician. You were so young when you are first negotiating this big first contract and if I'm not mistaken you actually in a really interesting position You had to major record labels that were vying for you. Is that correct? I became the biggest bidding more of the year. Every record label started driving down limousines taking out to dinner flying me to New York Yeah and there is a big bidding Rovan. So how did you make that choice? What to do with that negotiation because you ended up signing with Atlantic records. I was a avid reader. So as soon as record label started coming. I did some research in the library and found a book called everything you need to know about the music business and I read it and I learned about mechanical royalties back in and I learned what an advance was. It's not free money. It's the lone it's taking out a loan that you do back. And the bidding war got to such a crazy pitch. I was offered a million dollar signing bonus as a homeless kid but when I read the book and realize that was basically what I equated to putting a bounty on my head. I had a million dollar bounty on my head. I had a million dollar expectation. Wow and I had to earn it back and pay it back through record sales. That seems impossible. I felt like I needed to grow slowly. I felt like I needed to take the bounty off my head because of my commitment to off anticipate I knew I was GonNa make a full record at the height of grunge. The odds of that working are so slim and I was very realistic about it. On the odds of that working I heard the radio. Nothing was like me on the radio just I hoped to have a simple career. Lake John Bryan and wanted to be a great artist. Great Songwriter a new. That would be a lifetime dedication. It's not handed to you. You know Just starting writing. I wasn't that good yet. And so I turned down the bonus and took the biggest back ins on anybody had been given so I just sort of leveraged that hype that I had into a really large back in deal which basically means vice old records. I would earn a lot of money and it would take this bounty off of my head and that ended up saving my career Multiple Times First YEAR I didn't sell any records. Didn't get any traction. I didn't get on the radio. It was a big fat zero. I was turned away and laughed out of every radio station. Out of every establishment. People had a violent reaction to wow my lyrics and what they called naive pollyanna lyrics. How stupid my lyrics were only God and I had to get it out. I think I did thousand shows a year probably doing three to six shows a night or a day one to two cities day it was a grind and my labeled definitely would have to draw me because it took over a year and a half for that to begin to make any traction growth on. Vanson coming up. How jewel handled her sudden fame and later discover that her mom who'd been her manager for more than a decade stolen millions from her. That's coming up after the break. Iheartradio and state farm know that the graduation stage is the first of many and while grads may not be walking across one this year. They can get the send-off they've always dreamed of with our new podcast. Commencement featuring inspiring speeches from the biggest names like John Legend. I'm honored to have the chance to speak to to share in this special moment. Katie couric. You'll need some very important life skills to move forward. Perhaps the most important one is resilience. Chelsea handler dare to do things that scare you. If you can embrace the unknown and fully jump into what life has to offer you. There will be much to celebrate and much to enjoy and cash. Reflect on the work you've done and celebrate moving into your new phase these iconic names all coming together to celebrate you. The class of two thousand twenty listened iheartradio's new podcast commencement brought to you. By state. Farm speeches are now available on iheartradio APP. Or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember state farm will be there for this stage and every stage after like a good neighbor. State farm is there in nineteen ninety seven about two years. After jewel's debut album came out her single who will save your soul topped the charts? And suddenly she was everywhere late night. Tv shows on MTV. You may recall seeing her videos on. Vh One and she has her acoustic guitar and many of them. There are lots of close ups on her face and she seems directly into the camera. She was in her early twenty s when she was catapulted spotlight. So when I pull save yourself finally became a hit. I remember being terrified. Like Holy Heck. I didn't mean to write Soul I didn't mean to write a hit It just happened. And what if I can never do this again? While went on to sell twelve million records and it dawned on me I was like you can either perceived us as a lot of pressure to do it over and over or you can realize you never have to do it again like if I saved my money. I'm free for life. I won the lottery. You know it worked and I get to do whatever I want you know. I've never heard an artist. Talk this candidly about money. In this way like ever. I don't know So I was like I get free. Neutros freedom I give freedom. I bought with that million advance with that back end and if I kept my money smart I got to do. Whatever I wanted is an artist I never had to have another and I really worked hard to give myself. You have to do this. Place of internal permission of what my ego be okay. I didn't have another hit right because now it's not a money issue now. You have to make sure that your self worth isn't tied up in outward source right if our if we put ourselves outside of ourselves and that could be taken away at any time you're in a dangerous spot Your mom was your manager for like over a decade and then you found out she had actually stolen millions of dollars from you since then you cut off all contact with her Can can you describe that chapter in your life and how you dealt with that betrayal and how you went about healing from it? My mom was my manager in the beginning of my career. I remember when I called her shoes. Alaska and I was like mom. You're not gonNA believe at record labels are coming to see me and she's like I'll be right there to help you and it's so predictable like the movie. This lifetime movies predictable. I didn't see it at all though. I was desperate for my mom's love all the things you can imagine it I wrote about in my book called never broken because it really did take three hundred and fifty pages to describe my relationship with my mom. It was complex. It was the right word B. It was subterranean. I didn't understand all the emotions that were playing on me. I didn't really see. She was was a deep betrayal and deception of what I believed to be what she was and what I thought about me. Life and it at height of really good you did you find out over time or or was there a moment an incident where you discover that she was actually stealing from it was over time. Things weren't quite right. Things weren't quite adding up It was kind of a long slow slide and then finally undeniable amount of information to be like. Oh there's no way to explain this and I realized like right before this record launched that I knew was going to be really controversial possibly alienate people realize I needed the money. I realized I was millions of debt and the had to have this work and I was promoting a product. God forbid a female singer. Songwriter did that so it was gut wrenching and sad and horrible and I remember. I needed to do this tour really bad. Thank God intuition did good I mean it. It was a top hit on the pop charts and I was about to do a big huge shed tour that I really needed but I I was going to have a psychological breakdown like I couldn't do it and so I chose my mental health and I didn't do the tour and I turned to the money down and trusted that I take care of my health and mental health emotional health things will work out That's what I did. There are few lines and your opening poem and your Memoir Never Broken where you say quote. I spent a lifetime being small for those closest to me but this is not the woman my son will know. What did you mean by that? And many of us were male or female. Believe we have to make concessions in exchange for love? When I had my child it hit me like a ton of bricks a whole new way and I it was pretty awful to give birth and look at your child go holy Hell. I'm not the woman I need him to know yet. It was a whole new path in front of me. To get out of my marriage and rebuild in a whole new way So the my life as art could be as courageous as my art was And I love that. I love that. We're all artists of our lives. I love the our life should be our greatest work of art and our jobs are just part of it and our parenting is part of it and our partnership is part of it all in expression of this artwork but it comes from inside it sculpting. It's refining it's getting rid of things that don't belong to US IT'S A. It's a real dedication real practice and one that excited me in a whole new way. Once I had my son you've written across genres and that goes fear collaborations and performances to you've opened for folks stars like Bob Dylan icons like Johnny cash. You wrote a song with country singer. Dolly Parton you've made a holiday album and your most recent single grateful almost bluesy but one thing that seems constant to me is that there's always an emphasis on your lyrics. No matter what genre. You're writing in at the time you know when I made my pop record for instance. It was again because nineties. Credibility was everything. A pop singer could promote products. Songwriter couldn't right. So you might see Madonna promote something. But you never see Bruce Springsteen I found that interesting And I wanted to make a pop record and so I made a pop record and it was perceived as a sellout which to me was funny to me. Selling out would have been doing. You're meant for me over and over and over and trying to be the image other people on you to be. That's a sellout in my eyes to me. It was like this could ruin everything and I knew it but I couldn't not do it like I had to do a And I remember one of the big just legends in our business vary respective whom I respect is greatly coming office at Noida. Wild like this. You want me to write for somebody you know and I sat down. I shake his hand he was. I could tell he was in a bad mood. And I sit in this chair across from him and he doesn't wait a second he goes. Nobody wants this generation's Joni Mitchell to wear a mini skirt. You knock it the fuck off. Why wrong and that was really response. Is You can't be sexy and smart. You can't wear a mini skirt. You you can't be credible and do pop music. And I just found all of that shocking you know it was a really turbulent time in my career that coincided with me finding out. I was broke so I took on a biggest musical risks of my life because I was like I got money anyway. It doesn't matter if it works. I have to follow my news. May Label never pushed me to to try and be with poppy or producer. It was really up to me. They never had an influence rat. Told me how to dress or anything like that own. I wanted to ask you about your experience becoming famous at such a young age Taylor Swift recently said in her documentary that she feels like you almost get stuck in time at the age that you got famous Another example I'm thinking of Madonna won't perform songs. She wrote decades ago. She says like she feels like I did that. And that part of my life is over. How do you balance that being in the public light and having been a musician for decades and getting famous twenty-one famous hard people in my job kill themselves at alarming rates? Suicide Drugs. It's a it's not a healthy business in when I first came out I knew because I was so young. I'm voraciously forward moving Unrelentlessly unapologetically forward moving so for me. It was really letting my fan base know that out of the gate You get to develop and cultivate your fan base. You say you get to create each other and so because it was the dawn of the Internet I did have an ability to go online for the very first time in music history. Say these are the things I care about. I'm a songwriter. I won't always be famous but I hope to be doing the sixty years so if I could help our industry in one way it would be to put psychological health high on the priority list because that golden goose. If you will won't be able to stay around very long if they self-implode late three Joel gives us a tap on a horse and survive in Alaska. That's coming up after the break in the hawk. shakeup working from home conference calls. You're still on me John with everything we have going on right now. It's never been more important to get to sleep. We need quality. Sleep is a natural immune booster and only the sleep number three sixty smart beds senses your movements that automatically adjusts your comfort support on both sides. Your sleep number setting so all those other things. We're doing to stay healthy and happy. Well they'll work better to and now during Memorial Day sale. Save a thousand dollars on the queen's sleep number three special edition smart now only seventeen ninety nine only for a limited time to learn more go to sleepnumber dot com. I like to do a quick fire. Lightning round at the end of the interview. It's called Truth Truth. We go light after we go deep. So here we go. I wouldn't ask you. What is one tip that you would give people who are learning to ride a horse breeds? Horses feel tension tightness. Relax and you just come into harmony with the horse. You'll figure it all out pretty quickly. You're a native and Alaska your grandparents on both sides of from Alaska. You've had two ton of experience with summers where the sun actually never sets. How does one handle the daylight of sunlight and Alaskan summer put tin foil on Windows for your single grateful? That's out right now. Did you choose the organ for that? Opening at the song opens with like this Oregon southbound and Really has a Bluesy feel. Were you listening to a lot of Blues Music Group? Listening to a lot of many genres of music are. R&b was one of my favorites. And so this record has a really strong seventies R&B influence. I haven't been able to show that side of myself or my singing. Wanted to push myself vocally and away people haven't seen before and I wanted things to have a really natural feel. I love the Oregon always makes me feel like I'm in Church So just felt like the right thing but that song so. This isn't a question but I wanted to end with Sharing something with you before I did this interview today. I got messages from some of my friends. Close like a dozen girls Friends of mine. Who wrote me about their jewel? Memories and a lot of them are still following your music. And we're all really excited for your upcoming album. One of them described this memory she had of belting hands which gave her comfort and feeling like she felt wonderful and her own awkwardness. Another said she loved how you appear to be more interested in being thoughtful rather than being sexy and another friend said that pieces of you was the first CD that she had bought with our own money and she felt like she was an adult doing that and she was an adult listening to it in her. Own World Something that was totally her own. And I know that I can relate to that and so many people who grew up kind of what this gift of having your music and your lyrics can have that too so just want to say. Thanks very happy. Thank you can talk to find out more about jewel and how to make happiness a habit. Sco To W. W. Dot jewel never broken dot com. That's jewel never broken. All one word DOT COM. She has simple. Mindfulness exercises including how to learn to thank you so much for listening to this first season of the women. The women is a production of iheartradio. And myself your host rose read. Holly FRY is our executive producer. This episode was next by Adrian Lily. Very special thanks to noren Harvey Kipness Matthew. Read and especially gail read. Couldn't have done it without you. You can find our show on instagram at the Women Pod and you can bench the entire first season. Two thousand six episodes are out if you haven't heard Katie couric talk about sexism. Valerie Plame describe how covert CIA identity was leaked by the Bush White House or Stacey Abrams about her future and America's go back to our archives. And if you're enjoying the women please leave us a review or tele friend. It really helps to show grow. We'll be back in August with new interviews. And we'll keep you updated over the summer. Cleese take care for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio. App Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows thank you. Do you mind if I take a screen shot of this of our conversation. I and posted. It's totally okay. Sure can go. Oh good let's do it. Renowned Buddhist author and teacher Jarvis Masters has steadfastly maintained his innocence since he was sentenced to death almost thirty years ago on a new podcast. Dear Governor Jarvis poses the question Gilpin there have to be there by the execution of one man from the confines of nine by four cell. In San Quentin Jarvis will share his riveting. Life story how he has managed to maintain a sense of optimism in the most dire circumstances are poetry their their mind by now. That the vibe you. Housing provide the details of the bloody murder and trial. That landed him on death. When I really believe that they found that women I would not be charged for details from inside the courtroom as his attorneys fight for his final state. Appeal with newly disclosed evidence. The posters has claims of innocence will the California Supreme Court exonerate him a reaffirm his death sentence. Listen to dear governor on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

Alaska Joel Kilter Katie couric John Legend Bob Dylan Michigan Alaska Jewel America alcoholism Mexico Joe Dad High School New York Apple Jarvis Masters League
#176  Knowledge & Redemption

Making Sense with Sam Harris

1:03:54 hr | 9 months ago

#176 Knowledge & Redemption

"Welcome to the made sense. podcast this is Sam Harris Okay no housekeeping apart from the now recurring reminder that if you're supporting the podcast please get the private. RSS Feed if you're listening to this in your podcasting APP and you see a black making incense icon. You do not have the private feed so please log again. At Sam Harris Dot org go to the subscriber content page and and take the short steps to getting our actual subscriber feed. That doesn't matter right now but it will matter pretty soon okay. Too Damn speaking with Lynn Novick and jewel home Leeann is an emmy and peabody award. Winning documentary filmmaker. She has been producing directing documentaries for nearly thirty years very often in collaboration with Ken Burns and Lynn. And can were on this podcast not too long ago talking about their eighteen hour documentary the Vietnam War and of course they've done in baseball and jazz and Frank Lloyd Riot and the war and prohibition and I believe Lynn worked with Ken all the way back to his truly groundbreaking around breaking documentary. The civil war but This new film is Lynne's Solo Director Oriel debut and it's a four four hour documentary series that she produced with Sarah Bob Stein and the film is college behind bars and it. It really is an extraordinary documentary. As you'll hear it fairly blew me away so much so that I really want as I say at the end of this interview this podcast to function as a mere commercial for the documentary. You know as much as I like. Talk Kintu Linen. Jewel will introduce new moment the conversation that we had not only no substitute for seeing the film it really provides no indication nation of how powerful this documentary is so this podcast does nothing more than inspire you tune in to your local. PBS Station on Monday. November twenty fifth when the first episode drops. It will have served its entire purpose. The film again title which is college behind bars covers the work of the Bard Prison Initiative which giving a college education to people in prison prison and the transformational power of. This is so great that you really just have to bear witness to it by watching the film. Tom And I'm I'm inspired enough by this work to give all of the revenue come into the podcast associated with this episode to the Bard Prison Initiative So how be doing that upon its release anyways frequent listeners to the podcast no. It's not often that I entirely subordinate the show to merely schilling for someone else's project but in this case the project is so good and so- worthy of support that That's exactly what I am doing and should do my other other guest. Today is jewel hall. Who Completed The barn program while in prison and he was imprisoned for twenty two years? He is now out and he got an undergraduate degree in German studies through barred and then when he got out he continued by doing graduate work in public health. And he's now a a program associate for the Ford Foundation where he provides data analysis and strategy development. Anyway was a great pleasure to get jewel on the podcast as well and now without further delay. Bring you Lynn. Novick and jewel hall. I am here with Lynn. Novick Ovik Jewel Hall Linen Jewel. Thank you for joining me. Thank you have pleasure. Thank you so lit. I'll start with you. You've been on the podcast before are previously with your frequent collaborator. Ken Burns this for the Vietnam War documentary which made which was astonished. Shannon was was made made doubly astonishing because I decided to watch. I think it was fifteen hours of it in the twenty four hours before we actually spoke so I just basically came from the front to Get on our podcast together. So I was slightly deranged in that conversation but I mean that was an amazing film home and you as many people know have made many other remarkable films together with Ken Starr With Civil War and baseball and jazz is in the war. And prohibition but this new series you have college behind bars Mrs so arresting in in a very different way I mean I guess the main variable here is that. This isn't a historical documentaries. You're exploring a problem that we're all living with now and that's born home really in every minute of this thing and it's just as I I just as a caveat everything we're going to say here. I'm hoping we'll have a great conversation but there's no way. This conversation is a surrogate for seen the film. You've made we will tell people where and how they can do that at the end it but in fact let let's just do that upfront. WH- where's this being released. And where can people see college behind bars. So yeah the the film airs on PBS. It's a four part series and it's airing into chunks on November twenty fifth and twenty sixth. The Monday and Tuesday before Thanksgiving Nine Easts East Coast. Time I'm not sure in the middle of the country if it might be an eight and it'll be streaming on PBS DOT ORG and on the PBS APP and will be streaming for sixty days great and and I'm GonNa wait to introduce you jewel because we gotta figure out what what context is here lint. Tell me what the Bard prison initiative is. And and how this came to be the focus of your film well in two thousand twelve. We were finishing promoting film on prohibition that Cannon I Made Syrup Bought Steiner producer and Sarah invited to give guest lecture about the film in a college class and we'd been traveling around the country doing interviews and talking about the film and showing clips in fact we had been in Washington at the White House doing a screening for top law students in the DC area few weeks before so we've done a lot of talking about the film. We went back into this college class which happened to be part of something called the Bard Prison Initiative which is a program that offers college degrees to people who are incarcerated so Sarah and I went into a maximum security thirty prison with our clip real and the professor who was teaching this course and we showed our clips like we'd been doing all around the country and we weren't sure what to expect and we had the most interesting and thoughtful and serious and sophisticated conversation with the students in the maximum security prison in the classroom and you know it was sort of intellectually incredibly challenging and thrilling and also sort of overwhelming to think about having that conversation in that place and that was so sort of stunning to us that as we left the Prison Sarah and I said to each other. This was an extraordinary experience. We did not realize this was happening. He her this would be amazing film. We weren't thinking that we would actually make at the moment because we were just embarking Vietnam series in two thousand twelve but over time we got more interested and sort of involved. I taught in the program myself the the following year and Sarah taught some courses with me and we just decided that this was too important the story to have anybody else do it and we decided to our hat in the ring and make the film. We're going to get into a what it's like for the viewer to watch this but Now let me just bring jewel in here because jewell you are a an alum of the program and I guess I I WanNa really talk about your experience. You know from childhood really but before we get there. Just tell us us what you're doing now since you left. Cpi I'm a program associated with the Ford Foundation where I do Strategy Development and data analysis. Nice Ace before we get into the actual kind of journey. You create for the viewer through the Film Lynn. I won't talk about the context in which were having this conversation because one thing that's born home really poignantly in film is that you know is hopeful as this all is because he we meet these extraordinary students who are incarcerated. But they're making most of them. It's such a immense progress through the education program that is incredibly hopeful. Look at what is happening for these people. The land what is possible and yet the knowledge that this is such a rare experience for someone in prison gives a feeling of desperation desperation and futility even as well for the viewer so it's it really is a the light and the dark of this our foreign home. I'm more or less every minute of watching this film and the context in which having this conversation is one in which new laws are likely to. You be passed that affect this and we have a history of passing very bad laws with respect to educating people who are incarcerated rated. I don't know which one of you want to take this. But can you just sketch with picture is here of interest. How many people are in prison and what we spend in what we don't spend in? How crazily masochistic? All his. You know in some ways. The numbers are shocking enough themselves. And then the actual human waste and cost is even more devastating. America's America has two point. Two million people locked up in prisons and jails across the country. We have over incarcerated decision scale. There were the world's largest jailer proportional to our population and we spend eighty billion dollars a year to do that and the recidivism rate is very high and most people who are incarcerated do not have access to meaningful educational opportunity while incarcerated and many of them did not have access before incarceration and so. It's not really surprised that people leave prison demoralized moralize and you know unprepared to return to society and be productive citizens. And you're right this programming. That's why Sarah and I felt so strongly about making the film. It shows what is possible and it is hopeful and it also is huge indictment of what has been going on and I think our society hasn't paid enough attention. He In one detail that you mentioned I think that in the first episode again this is a four part for our documentary is that there's over. Six hundred thousand people released every year from prison back into the population and the recidivism rate is somewhere around fifty percent. But it's only is less than four percent for people people who go through this program and I the politically inconvenient fact that this was all made much worse by the Clinton Crime Bill in nineteen ninety a four when when pell grants for inmates were rescinded. Essentially End Oh. We should note inconveniently that this bill was written by Senator Joe Biden Adan and it appears to have been disastrous. I mean do you. Do you think I have that history right. Jewel speak about limit more because he personally experienced some thus. Yeah when I was incarcerated I was caused in nineteen ninety four and Nineteen Ninety Five S. When are the bill you referred to was implemented and I actually witnessed the college programs being pulled out of the prison I was? I was in Coxsackie Correctional Facility in New York state and You you correctly characterize and people were demoralized. People were felt hopeless. There was a lot of our worry about how people would continue their education education with a lot of despair about how a person would survive in this environment that is violent laden with drugs. And you know not many are constructive opportunities for people who already achieved high school diploma or a High School Equivalency. The poma on it wasn't much for people to do anything constructive. So I actually witnessed that period from nineteen ninety five to win I personally enrolled in Bod. I think around two thousand three a soldat prison was like a different place when college was an inside with prison. And the Bard Program Program is privately funded S so. There's no no longer taxpayer funding for this. This this really directs us to the question. Would you raise as explicitly at one point Lynn in the film of what is the purpose of prison. We're incarcerating people for at least two reasons as punishment and two warehouse people and to take people off the street who we deem dangerous Chris in many cases but in the vast majority of cases. We know we're going to release these people back to society. And the fact that we're not taking the obvious steps to rehabilitate them. It just seems like a self inflicted wound that you would never imagine we would commit upon ourselves you with open eyes and somehow did which is pretty damning indictment of our public policy over the last thirty forty years as we've exponentially increase the prison population and taken away the programs that would make it possible people to return to society ninety five percent of the people like you said are coming home so and then we blamed people who come home and aren't really prepared for the failing that is actually on all of us and You know I think for a lot of us who haven't been who haven't been impacted impacted by the criminal justice system. All of this has been happening. Kind of offstage. No and I think as a society we're beginning to pay a lot more attention to the a sort of criminal. Injustice mass incarceration lack of opportunity and be ability but for a long time. It wasn't a central focus and I think the bigger issue is also dad people inside want something to Transform they want something to give them a platform through which they they could change their lives with at that time period. There wasn't nothing you know guys was literally standing in the yard most of the day in front of a television just watching. TV In you know getting into trouble but people really wanted something to motivate them to make their time in prison. Less monotonous monotonous. Make it more constructive but college programs have been pulled out in. You know there was. There was that the despair he all all the effect on the people in the program is so stark interested to the way in which it changes their relationship to being imprisoned. I want to get to that in your story jewel. So let's just start with an really the beginning of what we're where did you grow up. grew up in Brownsville Brooklyn. New York Brownsville Brooklyn. Even I would say maybe two years ago was was labeled to have had one of the most violent streets in New York City. There was a lot oughta violence in my neighborhood where I grew up. I always love school but you know a lot of my peers would pick one people who showed that attention at school so I kinda you know Soldat. It was a feasible to not let people that I love school so much. You know grew up in a single parent home and I remember wanting to come home to do my home work actually. I was excited about that. He was so was this. A I mean there's this phrase acting white that has been exported from from that experience was that the framing of it for you among. I don't think it was necessary about race at that point. I think it was just a sense of WHO's coal you know young kids who don't have a perspective on what life really is about mountain how education fits into our lives. So you know it was more about girls and hanging out and you know being seen and you couldn't do much In school you know so it was that type of criticism. I oh come hang out with us or you know you should be With this girl or he known on and not in school so I was just a general sense. And were you in a gang at that point No I never been in a gang. Although you know I Grew up in the area where I had close affinities with my neighbors. You know but I never was in a gang right okay. So so. How did you wind up in prison? wind up in prison. Because you know I made some bad decisions in life are basically you know Like I said I I stop. I actually had a prison. Open my eyes to this once. I stopped putting emphasis on school once. I stop focusing on school DASS. When I began a life twelve being in the streets cut in class fighting that led me to the situation where I was incarcerated for some Violent Act that you know was occurring in my area where another guy opened fire or might right we I live in. You know I had this sense of you know this has happened before. I don't know how it's going to stop. I think the only with my seventeen year old mine. You know incorrectly Bankin. It's only going to stop for somebody fight back and just lead to a whole bunch of things that were destructive and let me right into prisoners. So I if if I recall correctly you you then. Retrieved a gun and then a gunfight ensued and then someone who you were close with in your neighborhood neighborhood got killed as an innocent bystander by the person who you were shooting at wound up shooting the person you knew and then it it was we basically you were charged as an accomplice to that murder. Is that correct yes. That's a fair assessment. Yes so actually I wanNA. This is one question I have. I want to get back to your experience going through the program tool but it seems to me that there must must be people who are not suited to the VPI program for a variety of reasons but a man. I guess one on a fact of watching this film which is which is fairly startling is to be confronted by the feeling that the viewers expectation of WHO's in prison is fairly erroneous right. I mean we're we're introduced to people. Jewel like half a dozen people who who are extremely charismatic and filled with promise and you know just being transformed by education and and it's incredibly inspiring and obviously I don't want to discount any of that but one also has to assume that there are people in prison who have committed crimes. Sometimes you know so terrible or who are so. You know incorrigible or or unrepentant that they would never even be considered as candidates. It's for the program and we're not. We're not seeing any of that and I just want to to ask jewel just what the the selection criteria are are like for the program and and to give me a kind of a reality check as to what are the kind of background facts of. Who else were you in prison with you? And in and that's part of the context in which you're pursuing your education at that point Los am. I will say this one being admitted into the program Dizzy Explicit decision not to consider your crime. There's a sense that with PPI and many of the people who support us that You know no one is beyond redemption. And whether it's for the purposes of release like Lynn just mentioned you know ninety ninety five percent of the people with cost rated will come home so we will want them to return to society to be a better people in contribute society like many BP as soon as doing. Now there's also. I think we could interview or talk to officers correctional officers in in prison. Who actually felt that having a college program improve approve the day-to-day operations of the prison? Because guys regardless of their crime guards of how much time they had was more concerned about you know taking care their classes and studying and not getting in trouble so it has a constructive effect when a prison itself and not just about people being released but one other thing I would like to mention. Is that When it comes to who is not able to take the program I will also so push back against that a bit because one of the qualities? What are the things I think that makes? PPI what it is is that the students help each other. We had a way of developing a level of fraternity and still. Do you know where are wearing the same class and you're struggling. I'm help you. I'm I'm all going through the yard and study what you're going to find the time to make sure that we all this material so there was a level of camaraderie artery and support amongst the prisoners is self that I want to say was actually supported by the administrators. It was encouraged by. I began by administrators for us to take a level of what autonomy and you know self direction in order to to educate ourselves to degree the and make the most out of material we were presented with and I just would time in one more thing. I've heard you'll talk about a lot. which is you know? Every year new crop of students are admitted and sometimes the students that are already in the program would look at the other students say. Oh I don't know I've seen that guy in the art and I don't know no he really going to be able to do this. Or whatever and UH people rise to the occasion is the challenge over and over again I was in charge was charged with orientating students. Rigors of the program when they made when they got in and made that transition from just being incarcerated to actually be incarcerated and taken this rigorous program and I saw people who were in the yard involved alden all types of negativity but once they got in a program they became. The most encaged articulate intelligent people. And you're right SAM. There were people who struggle with the material but again we were encouraged. saw help each other out and we did and I think that is what spilling out so a lot of BPI alarm now who are home providing solutions to the problems and helping people out here. Why so I'm reminded of the scene? I guess it's the First Class where the instructor says as you said they were. Not Considering what you did to get into prison at all. Oh you're crimes are totally irrelevant here. You're just you're not a prisoner your student and that that was a very powerful kind of induction into the curriculum. But I guess I'm just I'm still left with the feeling that there's a bit of a selection effect here which would only assume in some some way natural because I mean for instance. I don't remember anyone. The who you focused on linen. The film whose crime or crimes names were such. That one would be really worried that this person was ever going to get out of prison. Leban- There's some people who are just not going to get out of prison because what they did was so terrible. Well I was considered one of those people say You guys just understand the logic of your crime and this is not the kind of crime that makes me think you're the sort of person who wanted to kill and harm people in general. This was a plausible self defense situation. Maybe I could jump in and just say that. I think the film and the People's everyone's stories provides a lot of social context for the environments people. Oh came from. And the forces that shape them the traumas and all the things that we know. Are you end up resulting in violence and decisions and at the end up with people being incarcerated and so I think what the program shows and the success of the student shows is that you know when you teach in the program. You don't know anyone's background and either you're just there as a faculty and you don't. You're not supposed to and you don't investigate new relief to the students as students and that's really important philosophically to the program but it also just speaks to this larger question that I think is you know who's to judge who is or isn't capable of James and redemption and I think without knowing the full picture of everybody circumstances as you know it's it's really Pretty tough call. And that's not something that the program does that we as filmmakers did either actually it Kinda felt the film and away opens up that conversation for different for tavern different way and I will emphasize that you know even the people who may have that cat the categorization. I don't I'm not really sure I don't want to label anyone but there's a affect that these college programs have on a prison environment itself. There are many officers. Were Supportive of in appreciative of you know because they understood that I have to come here and work as long as I'm here working in and these guys are focused on positive things. That's a good thing for me in my life in my family He also I guess. Let me give you a little more of the motivation for my my question here because one aspect of the film that which I found pretty flabbergasted magazine if I thought about for a few minutes beforehand I could have anticipated it but it did hit me as a real point of surprise. which is the resistance to the program and the resistance to programs like this coming from not just society at large but as you say from from the guards whose jobs will you? You can anticipate would be getting easier than more people in prison getting educated and having their an more fulfilling experience the case that really just was jaw dropping a even one of the students in the program her own mother. Mother resented the fact that she was getting a free education in Prison Ryan. So maybe you can both of you just kind of talk us through through the logic by which people would resent the fact. That prisoners are being exposed to great books and of a path of self actualization through education and also just why the guards didn't figure prominently in in the film. Because I if I'm not mistaken. The guards are kind of mostly absent or entirely absent in in the film in terms of their testimony. As to how this affects techs prison life. I can speak a little bit about the officers. which was that the officers union? We asked repeatedly for could introduce them officers and they never responded so we actually they don't represent what the officers think don't think and so we actually don't know we heard occasionally when we were filming San. I would talk to officers. who were hang out with us? But we have nothing on the record bum them. So we only have the commissioner of the State of New York's Commissioner of correction saying that. Yes is true that you know there's some there can be tension because officers often. Don't have a college education themselves and I think we take a position at you. Know officers should have access to education. We're not trying to create a dichotomy. And you know you sam you bring up a good point with to me mother because it's important to recognize the people who are against or have information shen that makes them take a position as against this program are generally the same population of people you know. Mostly lower class people of color. You know of course some lower class white people here as well so I think it's important and I love your show Sam for this reason as well because it's important understand how politics come men and Kana distort and allow people to take positions. That's not necessarily in their interest. You know We take the position with this. His film that college education should be accessible to everyone a miracle. Who wants it not necessarily about you? Know the crime. The job economic status we see the not only personal development potential but also civic responsibility that many of these are like you just referred to the humanities and engage with sociology installs in a person. So you know to answer your question a bit more directly yes. There are people light to me mother who were or are against this program but I would say two things about that one even to me because mother when she had more information she realized the benefit of this program and to the second thing. I'll say is that you know college college accesses a problem beyond prison and we should not I. I liked to look at this film as showing the potential of education overall and it just it just so happens that it's in a prison environment and we shouldn't overlook down you know because I think education can be something that you know makes leaks America. Great again you know someone who is probably not a friend of the program. Interestingly enough yeah you know. The Obama Administration Gratien started small way to have this second chance pal pilot program and the trump administration has continued and expanded it and secretary of Education. Betsy Devos is in favor of of Pell grant restoration for people incarcerated so this is sort of interesting Nobel. It's is an unexpected in the universe of politics that we're dealing with. I'm the other thing I would just say because this is such an important point. So thank you for bringing it up is that we have seen the politics shift over the time Sarah working on the films and when we first started we we have felt a lot more of the resentment and kind of the the the I would say the political argument that you hear to me. 'cause mom making was more prevalent and over time up to today. We feel we've heard and we see it shifting quite a bit and for the reasons you'll said and also just because of how much money we're spending on mass incarceration solution. When you spend money on education? It saves money in the long run significant degree right. So you know it isn't really about Out Saving Taxpayer dollars at all. It's actually about denying opportunity and access to education primarily to communities of Color in America. I mean that's the subtext. That's kind of not made explicit by their even with someone like to make his mom sort of you know hearing the rhetoric and expressing it but it has largely to do the resentment of the high cost medication and also you know frustration with her daughter being incarcerated and the the suffering that their family has gone through to enjoy that and I think one of the things that's very instructive about because mother she also has a daughter. That's a correction officer right. So you know these are saying populations of people that were talking about You know so i. I definitely liked to you know. Keep that in mind. Once we get into the Distinctions arguments made for against. But I honestly disley fill that anyone who sees this film. They're going to be for something like this and present full of for people who are incarcerated. Yeah there's no question of that it's it's even to the point where you just can't imagine anyone having a different reaction to it. It's just it's so obviously good. And as you said jewel the economics also workout. I think if I'm not mistaken there was a rand study which said that for every dollar spent in prison on education. You're saving five out of prison and believe that was the the math and so the last time this failed what was it. I think it was in two thousand fourteen at Andrew. Cuomo try to pass a law in this area and then he got so much pushback that he just withdrew the Eh the initiative. I think that's correct. It was a trial balloon and he didn't really put much force behind. After making the proposal and was surprised by the reaction and again we should take heed to the politics involved because this is a new thing. College has been a way to which people are prepared to be released from prison to be productive members of society we We could go back to the eighties where you know. It was known that these programs grams were up on a benefit society. Because I actually believe as long as you provide a person in prison with the quality of education wants once that person released that's not individual gain. That's a societal game. Just like education will benefit an individual to go into society and make society. Eddie better has no difference for a person who's incarcerated also jewel back to your experience here so when you join the program. How did it change your sense? And Megan speak personally or I guess you can also speak for your a fellow alums in the program. How did it change your sense of being in prison and your jewelry relationship to the time? That was yet. Get ahead for you to serve. It changed radically. You know you that what you just quoted I thought was I think has mild quoted. Somebody saying what I said lead. This is what I usually speak about. I remember the first Orientation I partook in when I got into. BPI In wanted administrators Daniel Koplowitz. It's made a statement. He told us from now on. You should no longer look at yourself as a person incarcerated in prison. You should look at yourself as a student WHO's part of a bigger institution Russian. That is broad and that was so uncomfortable for me because I had spent maybe eleven years in prison being told I was in May and and not only are being told believing that I needed to stay in a lane. That was an inmate to survive. But being embarked college change a whole identity of myself and I think that is important for one reason if none other has many that it put me in a mas state to understand what re entry or entries thoughts in prison I needed to get out of the MAS state of looking at myself as a m made if I was going to be successful when I'm released I needed to start that process as early as possible but nonetheless when people get into ball at my experience. Is that the a couple of all qualities. Is that the the program had that put us in a position. Saw Be successful is one. The responsibility was on us. Not many people imprison give people to responsibility for their own development. You know and I think that's really instructive. Because once a person is given that responsibility you'll see what you the film a lot of us engaging with our pass and use an education to Connolly situate ourselves and understand how we got into the positions -sition we were in I think that's the path of you know change transformation to we were forced to give up our values in prison. You I know imprison is norms values. That people take on or I don't WanNa mess with this guy because of his cromwell. I don't WanNa mess with discount because it is but again bought put us in a position addition to say none of that matters. Only thing that matters is if you understand this material are you putting your best foot forward and are you. Relying on other people in your cohort what to do so so bill the fraternity wherein prison. You're if you're not in a gang your holly individual so this the program also put put us in a position to say we need to rely on each other so those are just a couple of things that I would love to have a discussion about. How many bought Allama out here? Now manifested no same qualities in a work. They're doing it. Because there's the fraternity is the understanding of self self environment and how to use these critical thinking skills. We didn't in in in a program our here for real life situations the that comes through so vividly in the film. Just the sense that you're forming of you and you and the rest of the people on on the program or are forming with one another of fraternity and support in the classroom which just seems like I is clearly functioning by different print dynamic than what is ordinarily going on in prison and then the connection is being made to the outside world and two in virtually everybody's case a future life in society based on the the material Tiriac that is being worked with and just some of the most arresting shots Lynn were just occasionally you would you would linger on. Somebody's stack of books or their bookshelf. And just to see the the most viewers will be familiar with some of the books there and certainly topics of the nonfiction books and SOUCI. What a lifeline? This material is for people. I don't know The effect it was like it was just a an unusually powerful meditation. Tation on the profundity of education is for civilization and the profundity of the missed opportunity for many of these people to have gotten it earlier in life. You basically seen people who have been dying of thirst given a cold drink of water are really just Very powerful experience that you've created. Thank you for saying that I. I think looking at the books because we love seeing what people are reading thing and you just you can see a lot. I know my bookshelf at home says a lot about me what books I chose what books I care about and save and seeing the books that the students have in their selves or in the library that are on the table reflects where they're at and what they're thinking about and that's you know insight into what's going on inside so so powerful and the tall drink of water or is exactly right. One of the students at one point says literally it's like you're in the desert and again into DPI newfound an oasis and books play a role because you know I it. Gauge with Friedrich Nietzsche Thomas Mine Another one of my favorites Walter Mosely and I didn't just engage it by myself. I engaged engaged with my classmates. There's that level of interaction with each other. So I'm not only getting my impression of Friedrich Nietzsche but everyone else is in in that class in in my class I'm getting near oppression as well and I think that is just like no no for me it was like magical. It's like wow this opening my mind to so much coach. Now I I think there is something we find Sarah and I find in the collaborative process of making the film with our cinematographers. And our editors fishery no when you're really in the in that I've heard heard you speak about this idea of flow and I'm not sure I've ever really experienced it but you know there's something euphoric about this pure intellectual or creative collaboration. Other people holdover for you to something more than you could do on your own and you sort of. You're almost outside of yourself and we felt that sometimes when making the film and I can see from what you're saying I think that's the same that happens among the students when they're really deeply digging into the material and what's the experience for the instructors in general did you me comes through you. Can you see them in action a lot. But I'm wondering what your your sidebar conversations are like with instructors. Yeah you know when we started off Sarah and I. I think we're going to focus a bit more on the professors because we were really interested in what their experiences were but we ended up realizing the students were willing. It'd be the focus about Craig Wilder as you head. Something like four four hundred hours of four yes exactly. There's a lot on the cutting room floor. And one of the things were some of the professors and extended interviews about why they teach in the program and what they find so joyous fulfilling but and it's not just this program and the other professor ever met his taught in a prison will say that these are the most engaged serious. Yes thoughtful students and some of the smartest and most capable students who work the hardest. And so you walk into those classrooms. And it's the most fulfilling academic experience they have have professors who teach at my tea or on the Bard campus or at Columbia. Find that no teaching the students in. VPI invigorates their love of teaching their relationship to the material and bring that back to their classrooms back on the main campus where they teach and everything Kinda gets elevated. And you know I'm you just feel it. It's palpable actually in the way that they sort of walk into the classroom and are they're totally present for the students and everyone is fully present which I think is also so really interesting. You know because they go back to this old fashioned teaching style of a blackboard and chalk and everybody is paying attention and you're looking at books and pieces of paper there's no screens and so there's sort of tactile physical relationship to learning also which you know it it's just everyone's focused and an end in involved. It is amazing to see the challenge for the students to carve out the time. Actually do the coursework. Many many of them are staying up very late at night. Because it's the only time where it's quiet enough to to actually read. Maybe jewell you can speak to what that was like. Yes you know again. You know the professors didn't let up on us. I would argue. They were a little bit harder but Yeah and you you know. I like a great example is the senior project. When I wrote my senior project I finished with one hundred? Twenty four page exposition on the guest worker program in Germany and reading and writing the project. I remember they will points where I was. Just looking at the papal and cry. Dan Tell us. Oh I can't do this. This is so hard you know. It's a challenging thing but people around me was supportive. Move to a degree you know because they understood what I was up against. Of course you had to noise and you know I had to put myself in situations not to be distracted. I had to like wait to certain times when I knew people weren't in the cell block. You know so it could be choir Focus but nonetheless you know I think that has also quality of education because it takes that level of innovation in structured time and being able to Say This is the best time for me to get the best results. I think that is all part of the educational process. And it's no I would argue. It's not easy in prison. Maybe even a little hotter. I don't WanNa you know. I think now that I'm home. I see challenges. That students out here face trying to stay focused on school. So I'm not trying to elevate one over the other. I just think that as as a general matter. It's part of the educational process in spite of the distractions to be able to say okay. This is how I need structure my time in order to get this material dot he and this is one of the through lines in the film is the adventures of the debate Bait Club which is a subset of the students here. But the debate Was it West Point. I saw them practicing for University of Vermont. We didn't film debate and then leave them them against West Point and then and then Harvard. Yeah I guess we. We don't want to spoil the the The effect but I mean it's just amazing that's the level at which this is culminating right. You have the the Bard prison team against West Point in one scene and Harvard in another and these are completely appropriate. Parents is magical article and yet. There's a lot that has to change to Spread the magic. What how hopeful are you lynn that this is going to go in the right direction direction in a timeframe that is it all satisfying well? Well I guess I have to live in a way that I am just to get through life. I am hopeful just generally unreleased tried to be helpful even though I think right now we're living in a pretty dark time. Sometimes I feel very just bearing but on this particular issue I feel actually very hopeful because excuse me are in a moment where Congress is in fact considering legislation to restore pell eligibility for people incarcerated. So that is quite something and then the question. We'll be sort of. Are there any limitations. In terms of restricting it to certain kinds of offenses or other kinds of offenses or certain senses and then on another level just also will we hold organizations and educational institutions accountable to provide education to people are incarcerated that is rigorous and demanding and doesn't consented to them. And does you know what bar does or any other similar program on the outside that people deserve the opportunity so those are things that are real and and you know scaling up as they say from a very tiny percentage of people right now who are incarcerated have access to quality degree granting programs to the two million people that are are incarcerated. That that's a big climb but it certainly within our reach both decrease the prison population which we are doing too much more aggressively and also expand these programs programs. You know on a huge scale and I am. I am optimistic. And we're really excited that the film is coming out right now for that reason. I'm very optimistic to if I may add because you know I was incarcerated in ninety three ninety four when the talk was just Super Predator. Lock up alway too key and we are changing the narrative live. I see the film and its role in changing his narrative. A Sam you cited. The way in which people are opposition to this program and I think this is helping them to see a different narrative about what prisoners are trying to achieve while they're inside and what they are capable of doing and because it Adam so hopeful hopeful so Julie at one point you mentioned the other alums and what they're doing what what is people will go and see this film and End Fall in love with several people who are who are making their way through the program and there's some follow up but you know obviously the the film was in Can Earlier than this moment what what can you say about what people are doing and Just what it's like to get out of prison having gone through. BPI The I well. I'll take the lies apart. I getting out of prison after going through. VPI was a piece of cake. Nick in a sense that I felt because I did that senior project. There was nothing that I couldn't do now. That doesn't mean that. I wasn't face with the stigma of being ause raid whenever I went on a job interview but I had the level of confidence and as well as a acrobatic late myself in a job interview to continue and push and push in. That was a trait that I learnt from. BPI and another factor. Like I mentioned earlier in the interview on the Parkas because of the fraternity we have we have informal network. VPI students in the New York area. Not just a New York era. We have people in overseas in Jamaica. We have people who are down south. That are doing some very important things. They are actually engage with their communities communities whether through nonprofit organizations like New York we have so many people in our bail reform space and philanthropic space and and you know working to educate people or youth at risk. You know that our beep alarm but we also have people who are are making they can leap into the medical institution or getting their. PhD's you know. So you know I just like to bring attention to the fact that you know we recognize that you know we have had an a pass. I'll pass cells. We have caused harm in society. But now it's like a conscious drought driven efforts bring solutions to society. We have people all over in many sectors that are doing so many constructive things. That's just helping out the world today. I WANNA revisit part of the conversation where I was talking about. You know offenders whose crimes might have been to who grave for admission into the program and just to get a clear sense of the ground truth here one a question for you both are are there. People admitted to the program who are never getting out of prison. Who are who are? Let's say on. Is there anyone on. Death throw admitted to the program. Or there's some criterion by which people are selected against based on what their actual sentences while so New York state doesn't doesn't have the death penalty so we don't have a death row. Thank God liquid and and you know really for I think if Max Kenner the director of the program were here he would say that really for because because of limitations of space and resources anyone who has a sentence of life without parole which is a very tiny tiny percentage of people can apply but there are many people with life sentences which means you might have twenty years to life or thirty years to life which means that you have to go to the Parole Board at the you know after twenty years or over and then it's up to the parole board whether jewel and jewel had a sentence of of certain number of years twenty two years to life so there are people who have gone through the program and or go to the Parole Board and get released and some don't and so that's a real thing and one of the issues that come up that you might finish the program and then you still have time to serve and you can keep your horses and mentoring students than that kind of thing so but you know it's a tiny percentage of people that have life without parole and most other people who are incarcerated as we said before we'll be coming home and but some may not and Joel you serve twenty two years yes sir. Twenty two years. I was sentenced to life that essentially said I didn't have any requirement to be released. You know but lighten. I had the consideration of release after twenty two years and was your experience in. BPI Part of what the Parole Board considered considered. 'cause I remember I. Frankly can't remember if it was you or some other the student there but I remember the frustration as view or seen. Someone have their parole denied at a point in the film where it was pretty obvious. This is not a parole that you should be denied. How was it you are multiple cases? Yeah it should factor into the conversation will what was that like well. You know I can't speak for the Parole Board. You know they keep keep their decisions rightly so you know amongst themselves. They don't want the you know cause much controversy but I think you know for me my personal experience of going through through the program then going to parole feeling like I was ready but also have in that self reflective stance of what I was in jail for it was hard. It was really hard to beat the nine. You know I felt I was ready but it forced me to sit down a little bit longer and think about. Why was there you know but nonetheless the next parole board I had I was released but that doesn't bring much attention to the fact that there are many who are still being denied I think? BP I hi we are building a level of respect and understanding that we are sincere people. We are different people than we went in but nonetheless you know politics or you know this idea. This false dichotomy of the violent and non violent crime comes into play whenever a person it comes up for parole as well. I will say that they're the New York. State does have a policy that if you've completed some part of college program you can get six months off your sentence so if you're going to be released you come home six months earlier. That's what I was right after the children but you're eligible to apply for that. Yes so right. Yeah okay so yeah so Julia. Just you mentioned something about a false dichotomy between violent and nonviolent crime. There's a a picture here of one. Obvious solution to the problem of mass incarceration is to recognize that the war on drugs has has been a terrible failure and that far too many people are locked up for. You truly victimless crimes and Lyn. Perhaps you can speak to this as well. And this is obviously the low hanging fruit of reform but what percentage of the prison population is actually quote nonviolent. I'm pretty sure that it's about half so you know. And and these categorisations and I'm not a criminal justice expert. I will say I I have done a fair amount of research so I can understand the the big picture but about half of the people in prisons and jails are incarcerated for crimes that are labeled as violent and in some cases are significant percentage of cases. The label. Violent doesn't mean that that person actually committed a physical harm to somebody the so the label is used fairly. Broadly the League So that's one thing we could have a whole long conversation about that but then in addition you know there are people who are incarcerated who have hurt other people physically and so that's where we you know. We need to at least face. The fact that the society we're not going to resolve or settle or solve mass incarceration or we have incarcerated cursory people at such an enormous scale without addressing the fact that there are people many people in prison hundreds of thousands who have committed physical harm but are you know trying to redeem themselves and also you know reckon with that and make the best of what they have of the future and they can't do that if we don't offer them the opportunity to get an education with our serrated and I would like to add if you take that population of people you know. There's some great work being done by. If I may give credit to Bruce Western. He's doing some great research. That shows one violent violences situational. It's environmental is not person base inherent sue. Many of the people who are incarcerated for violent crime will once victims of violent crimes so these are levels of evidence that we are engaged with now. That shows that's why used to determine false dichotomy of the violent person or violent crime because you know we it's more nuance and engage in. I'm not trying to belittle anytime I don't Wanna I'm not not the type to the Nada significance of people who committed these crimes. And how 'cause home or whatever but nonetheless we have to understand that the label violent isn't adequate label to describe what has happened. We need to be more about about environmental circumstances as well as his off generational if not historical particularly women who on a fast growing population. Now how are being incarcerated at a higher rate come into prison with so many incidents of violence committed against them and you know I just think that we have to lay be having more nuanced understanding of what's happening and you go headlines and say it kind of goes back to the question that you know we talked about at the beginning this is what is prison for NFL. Yeah Guess Linger there for a moment because I feel like all of us. Certainly everyone who's been out of prison is in their whole lives have have had the reality of crime and violence advertise to them if they haven't experienced it directly. It's been advertised advertised in film and Fiction and in your true crime literature and amplifies a a certain data point that that no doubt exists. I mean there are some people who are actually psychopaths. They're they're people who take sadistic pleasure and harming others and I mean they. They didn't invent themselves either. I mean this is as a situational problem as well based on you know what their genes are and who their parents were and we how how they were brought up and all the rest and whether they were victimized. But there's no question there are some truly scary people who we don't want to let out of prison but for the vast majority Jordy of violent crimes as you point out jewel many more shades of gray as to what happened there. And how you know any any one of us you know more or less. Psychologically normal person put into a situation might find themselves you know in on the wrong side died of a gun and again it's not that the world is filled with bad people who do bad things under any conceivable. All set of circumstances at the world is far more full with people who are very much like ourselves who are pushed into who very unfortunate circumstances where a range of bad and worse options seem to be open to them and so to just be you put into closer contact with the details of these stories in a film like the one you've made Lynn and to just feel the the you know the door of compassion open. It's really inexperienced. People need to give themselves because they everyone has had the Hollywood version piped into their brains since the moment they could watch television. And it's not clear picture of of violence or its casualties on either side. Thank okay very much. That's very very thoughtful and generous description of what we've tried to do. So Zarrella are very grateful. Thank you we want people to talk about this. We want to have this conversation. We think the film is a good way to which people could start investigate in their ideas and understanding. What is like you know something that they could stand? Standby is something that is so nuanced that they need more evidence and I think this film is a good point from which people can start this conversation. And that's what we're hoping will happen around the Thanksgiving. I'm just getting table when we're tired of talking about impeachment right right right so Land was apart from seen the film and I want you to reiterate where where people can see it but at the moment these kinds of programs are privately funded. Where do you recommend? I point people to put their shoulder shoulder to the wheel and and help support work like we see in the film and is done through. VPI and other other programs. Yes thank you for asking that I I you know I think that the Bard Prison Initiative you can certainly be looking to that on you can find them. VDI BARRED VI DOT Edu. I think is the the place to find it on on the web and I would also say that you know contacting our legislators and political leaders and saying that we are not happy with the status quo and that we want that to be changed and have public funding sent toward it and also you know as a graduate of an elite institution myself. I am disappointed to put it. Mildly that Yale University with its thirty billion alien dollar endowment can't see a wage do much in the space. They have started a prison education program as a few other schools like at have but to get started they had to get a grant from. VPI BE I to get going. They didn't put their own resources toward it. And you know I think. All of our elite institutions and public institutions of higher education also have a responsibility ability. Is You know civic institutions to find the best students to expand their access and to sort of fulfill their obligations to society. Righty so I think as anyone listening can contact your Alma Mater. See what they're doing and ask them why they're not doing more Well Linden Dan and Julie has been so great to get you on the program and again I just need to insist that people see the film because this conversation is really not a substitute for for that experience as Nice as it was to speak to you both watching the film or really Bold may over so I just I have to insist that this episode of the podcast really is just functioning as an infomercial for the film. You've made land so thank you. That's great pleasure. Thank you something else. Yeah okay well as I said this whole thing is a commercial four. Four Lynn's film. Please see it she don't catch it. Live on PBS. Please watch the streamed version and let it. Do its work on your brain. Once again all revenue associated with this episode of the podcast will be going to the Barn Prison Initiative I feel very happy and grateful to be in a position to make a decision like that and it feels great to be inspired inspired and thank you to Lynn and jewel for the work. They're doing as well as Sarah and everyone else associated with this film and everyone doing the work. BPI and all of you in the US and wish you a very happy thanksgiving. And I'll see back here on the podcast soon until next next time. If you find this podcast valuable there are many ways you can support it. You can review it on itunes or or stitcher or wherever he happened to listen to it. You can share it on social media with your friends you can blog about it or discuss it on your own podcast or you can support it directly and you can do this by subscribing through my website at Sam Harris Dot Org and there you'll find subscriber only content like my ass anything episodes as well as the bonus questions and for many of these interviews. He'll also get advanced tickets to my live events. You'll find all of these things and more at Sam Harris Dot Org and thank you for supporting the show listeners. Like you make it possible.

Lynn Novick Sarah Bob Stein Bard Prison Initiative New York BPI VPI Sam Harris Ford Foundation Novick Ovik Jewel Hall Linen J America Parole Board jewel hall Friedrich Nietzsche Ken Burns instructor Jewel peabody award Ken Starr PBS Station professor
EP13: The Time History Caught Up With Greed

The Marketing Rescue Podcast

40:00 min | Last month

EP13: The Time History Caught Up With Greed

"You're listening to the marketing rescue podcast the weekly show where we take a look at some epic marketing failures. Along with some pretty amazing and rescues and comebacks, and now your hosts, you go and chat. Hey Chad. Yeah parking. We learn from history. How can we learn from history? That's probably. The quintessential question of our time right now because we tend to know your, yeah, we have to keep making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. I don't know that's a good question is a really cool article that I found an or Katya publishing com where they talk about the six things you can learn. History helps us develop a better understanding the world. That's very relevant right now. He's help us understand ourselves. Very relevant to history makes us learn to understand other people that's not of today's Day and age history teachers, a working understanding of change stinks changing right now, nothing but change. The news today. It's like they say the only constant is change. Yeah, exactly it gives us the tools to be a decent citizen, and lastly it makes us better decision-makers. I agree one hundred percent. Well the story. We were brought to talk about today I. Wish they agreed with you to. Figure that. So. Are you guys keeping up eating right four five months now? I haven't seen you in person I. See every single day my video. But I haven't seen in person yet. Yeah, it's been a long time. It's been too long. Cautiously excited with some of the things reopening. and. Maybe have lunch together one of these days. Yeah, how you guys preparing for the flying sharks coming in July. Well. Shark Week and shark NATO is is such a big deal over here. That I'm just expecting something to happen whether it's nuclear bombs inside of sharks, or who knows what something's going to be coming? It's twenty twenty three. We have the elections. Look forward to as well on November, so we've got action packed twenty twenty ahead of us. Get Out your Bingo cards. Yes let's dive into today. Interesting story, right? We talked about what you can learn from history and I think the marketing team, the executive team and this company Lucci just exact opposite and chose not to learn anything. Yeah, so let's actually start with a little bit of history. In two thousand five to Stanford students developed a new e cigarette product. They called plume in two thousand seven. They form a company to manufacture and sell their e cigarettes, but it took the modal while to get going and eight years later they changed the name of their product and their company. The company became packs, labs, and the e cigarette. You WanNa. Take a stab at guessing the name Nico Do. Ding Ding Ding. Jewel, so in the summer of two thousand. Fifteen Founders. Adam Bowen and James moncey launched the jewel electronic cigarette brand in fall of twenty seventeen, the newly named jewel labs had a two hundred employees, and by the end of the following year they had fifteen hundred employees, so the company is valued at fifteen billion dollars at this time following six hundred and fifty million dollar investment round. In December, two thousand eighteen jewel sold thirty five percents of the company to Altria. largest manufacturers cigarettes formerly known as Philip Morris Company and the city five, but seen they sold for twelve point eight billion dollars thirty five percent. So. That's a lot of growth from twenty. Into two thousand, eighteen, twenty, nineteen, th explosive crazier? At the time that revenue. I think it was about two billion dollars per year and Wells Fargo set the. City eight billion dollars in two thousand eighteen. Wow to celebrate their deal. A tree gave jewel. Two Billion Dollar Bonus dispute among their fifteen hundred employees, which is one point three million dollars for first sight. It's crazy. That is insane. Wow, yeah, well. I mean. It's no wonder. We see what we're about to see in the story that we're about to unfold, because there's so much money being tossed around, and it's definitely the greed get greedier. It's unfortunate because you would think that. Jeeze, you know. One point three million dollars. That's gotta be enough, but I think as we've seen time after time. It's never enough, and that's how greed works. It doesn't matter if you have a million a billion. There's always a hunger for more so this sounds like just. Hey, it's another amazing. Silicon Valley Success Story and potentially a brand that is. Maybe even doing something good reducing cigarette smoking, which is the number one killer? No, it doesn't. It sounds like purdue. Very familiar I agree with you. The more money companies make the more greedy tend to get. And by the end of two thousand seventeen. Was the most popular e cigarettes in America, a year later, Jewish seventy two percents of the entire e cigarette market, which is massive. Public sentiment was growing in favor of e cigarettes as a helpful, potentially less harmful alternative to smoking, because be smoking, still a problem in the US. And many people so e cigarettes as a legitimate offering in the smoking cessation markets, a new addition to the lines of patches and gums. They could help people break the habits. But US regulatory agencies including the FDA at significant concerns about. was using this products and that's where the cookie starts to crumble. So to understand their concern. We have to go back even further. We've gotta go back twenty years so in nineteen ninety-seven. The FTC files a lawsuit against a company called RJ. Reynolds company the owners of camel cigarettes. And this lawsuit of course was for specifically marketing to children with the JOE camel cartoon campaigns. So quoting from a New York Times article from that period, the agency asserted in an administrative complaint that the company violated Federal Fair trade practice laws by promoting a lethal addictive product to children and adolescents who could not legally purchase or use it. So earlier that year, the Liggett group makers of the element chesterfield cigarette brands had acknowledged that the industry actively targeted minors in their marketing because they knew almost all habitual smokers started as teenagers. So Rj Reynolds was eventually find fifteen million and Kansas District Court said the company was highly blame worthy and deserving of significant punishment, so they find them fifteen million dollars significant punishment that was like a slap on the wrist right? Yeah, yeah, so the results of these and other lawsuits. Is that over time? Things started to snowball and pick up, and then we start to see significant prohibitions on the marketing of tobacco to minors, and as a result, teenage smoking had been on the decline for decades, leading up to Jules Rise around twenty fifteen, and then that big upward swing, and twenty seventeen in two, thousand, eighteen, so jewel. Has This opportunity in? In front of them for at least what they think at the time would be actually growing into a potentially more healthy market, potentially a force for good to help reduce cigarette dependency for people who are addicted to nicotine and kind of transfer dependency over to what kind of the general public and possibly jewel at that time was a safer mechanism for nicotine delivery. Inflection Point, right? They could have learned what happens. To other tobacco companies, because ultimately they in the same space right, yep might be a different products, but the product innovation within the same market, audience but matter. But they chose not to do that. They literally chose not to do that so. October twenty eighteen study found that nine point five percent of teenagers, the age of fifteen to seventeen. And eleven percent of young adults ages eighteen to twenty one. We're actively using Joel just. Think about that for a second. That's ten percents of all kids between age fifteen and seventeen using their products. and the teenager seventeen to fifteen or sixteen times more likely to be jewell users than twenty five and thirty four year olds. The same study said that one in five students between the age of twelve and seventeen at seen jewel being used in school. So these kids were actually starting to use the word juuling to describe e cigarette use, so it's very much like q tech's nail Polish. Turn, the brand name into verb, and the only time that happens is when it's getting used over and over and over that this get. So, why were kids increasingly using jewel and other e cigarettes? During this time right? Well I think it's clearly because they didn't understand the risks. A Twenty Fifteen Stanford University study. Analyzing Adolescence perceptions of risks and benefits of conventional cigarettes and e cigarettes found that some of the participants actually believed that e cigarettes did not contain nicotine only water vapor, and I have to admit when I I kind of saw jewel in particular. I actually thought because of the way that they were marketed that there was nicotine free versions, because so many kids were using them, and that's like the whole crux of why. This is so crazy is that? They didn't know what the risks were still marketed them. As if the did know what the risks were and marketed them as a supposedly safer alternative to cigarettes, so there early marketing efforts just to kind of paint. The picture is they're using a lot of digital media. Especially social media, they have these images and themes with young people, and they spend thousands of dollars to promote jewel as a smoking cessation tool to kids in schools, so let's actually just listen to a clip from this CBS news article that talks about how they actually started marketing towards kids. Children as young as eight years old were targeted by jewel online and through summer camps, according to a Congressional investigation, the company spent more than two hundred thousand dollars to sponsor so wellness camps. Summer Camps Seriously Summer Camps Oh man, it's horrible. Yeah, Oh man. This is kind of near and dear to our hearts, because we two dads in because little kids and. They come back from like a summer camp in juuling all of a sudden and new finance, a company actually promoted. It's while they were on the camp I'm thinking back burning stuff down at this point. Yeah, it'd be so mad. I would be so angry. Yeah, so one of the things that happens in our school. District is in fifth grade. The kids all go on a one week. Science camp and This kind of right passage it's the I kind of like overnight camp kind of thing that the kids in in the district do and so. Everyone's super excited to go on. The science camps like imagine if they come back from this first trip away. As a fifth grader, right? And, unfortunately Julius, actually targeting kids as young as third grade to Scrapie, so let's listen to this clip about that. It's very popular. A lot of kids do in fact roughly one in five high school students admit they have tried vaping last year, and according to the National Institute of Drug Abuse Seven out of ten teams are exposed to e cigarettes through ads. They see them on a lot of Youtube Center. That's like showing on videos for teenagers, so it's really like targeted to us in my opinion. Oh Jeez, yeah I mean when you're targeting children as young as eight and running you too bads against teen videos. It's it's just deliberate. Everything you want to say boss marketing kids, but if you're tactics. Are Marketing Katie's. Pet. Products right so they're in the US. There are two different types of cigarette flavors. You can buy nicotine and Menthol, and that was put into place by. The FDA, years back with a whole Philip Morris. Big Tobacco lawsuits on so Jew has not anymore, but they had these crazy. Flavors Candy Mukhsin Cookies candyfloss. Puppy. And just think about that. If you're a chain smoking adults, you're not gonNA. Start Sucking on a cookie and cream Jewish vaping USB stick. That goes against what they were saying. They were doing, but their actions were speaking very differently. It's disgusting well, and the tactics worked. They were very very effective, so from two thousand seventeen to two thousand eighteen. The CDC reports a seventy eight percent surge in vaping among high school students. It's now four million high school students who went in every five that are actually vaping at this point from one company. One Company. Can I don't WANNA use. Words what destroying a kid's future, but he can drastically impact that kids future. Yeah, and jewel says that their mission is to simply reduce cigarette smoking amongst existing cigarette smokers existing adult smoker, right? But that message is clearly been called into question for right obvious reasons so in two thousand seventeen. The CDC says it's unclear as to whether. E. Cigarettes are even as effective as getting people off of cigarettes as proven FDA approved therapies like patches, gum lozenges so now there's this debate of okay well, even if there is some value to getting people off of the cigarettes and onto a different delivery mechanism, it might even be as effective as a patch. So what's the point and while some people might think that vaping might be safer than smoking? They're still a huge lack of research. About the long term health impacts. It still contains nicotine. The juice packs. Ingredients are often unknown and contained chemicals like we saw this last year with all of these kids getting sick. Vitamin D you see you. Something laced with it or something weird. They could explain for a really long time right? Yeah, and so you just don't know what you're getting. And it's dangerous. Dr! Jack Ler, a Stanford, university researcher who co-founded Group that really rolls of your tongue, Stanford research into the impact of tobacco, advertising or the acronym roles tongue SORTA. Theresa. They really really dug into this. And they maintains an archive. Old Jewels deleted social media posts and I say deleted because will. Delete it at this point. All the social media accounts two and a half thousand tweets, four hundred facebook posts an instagram post, and this is definitely a theme that we see on the show about when a company sells deleting the social media, platforms and content. Something's up. We've seen a multiple times right now. Yes so material from jobs, websites emails print campaigns dating back all the way to two thousand fifteen and Jacqueline said they clearly targeted the youth especially in the early, two, thousand and fifteen in two thousand sixteen. They used attractive model socializing. The jewel device before article by kindred Kaya says jewel contracted advertising agency grits creative group to identify social media influences aiming to recruit uses with at least city thousand followers to establish a network of creatives to leverage as loyalists for its brand, according to an internal email. And when we think of who is being influenced by influences on social media, who are those old people trying to quit smoking or well I. mean the thing is on instagram. The minimum age create an account is thirteen. So that's the problem is social media is? In general, especially with influence or marketing on platforms like instagram. You can't control what ages are going to be interacting with your content, and how it's going to be perceived at especially if you position it towards the younger end of the demographic spectrum which they were with a minimum. Age. Of Twenty five influence or marketing campaign was supposed to be adults twenty five to thirty four. Year just butting right up against that younger demographic, but that is also the platform. It's thin what you do with your creative on the platform which I think was like in my mind the nail in the coffin year, so they use. The teen oriented clothing music. And? They use hashtags and partnered with us or into brands. But I think the thing. That really shocked me when I was doing the research for this. Is this INSTAGRAM AD found? What an orchestra that yeah! This is actual copy from an actual influence or add that actually triggered a lawsuit from the Massachusetts Attorney, General and reads. Mom It's a USB drive and we'll put this image does add in the show notes. It is literally a USB drive. It looks like the one end is got a plug. The male plug of a USB adapter in the other side is the small little. What looks like USB drive, but it's actual Joel device. So I ask you. Chad, mum. It's a USB drive. Targeted towards this is just mind blanked me. This is why I just feel like they didn't learn from history, and they made a conscious choice to market to kids right, so let's read the second from the top comment on this instagram post and says. I told my dad that about my old jewel, and he actually fell for it. L. Right so it's obvious what's going on here who they're interacting with how they're pushing it forward. And from a product marketing perspective, it's not just the ads. It's also the way that they've actually physically designed products and partnered with juice companies to design products that look like highlighter that you would use it. School pens lipsticks. They have these cartridges that the box looks like it would be an actual box of cookies, and this was one that looks like a mock shake right? It's the actual thing looks like a cup of milk. Shake the you from right yet. The actual shape of it and it has one of those little plastic. The stuff goes through. You know when you're at the seven eleven and. She's so. It's very very carefully crafted and designed to appeal to children. You know this is really what blows me away because we spent so much time in coming up with marketing strategies for clients trying to solve complex problems right now and the process that happens is we all get together? We have a brief that somebody put together. It's key insights tennis and we beat it up and we come up with a strategy that's measurable executable within the budget time everything it'd be. So, somewhere, a group of people were sitting down. and. They were brainstorming this right. Hukou, we make up product to appeal to a fourteen year old. What can we do and I? Just I really struggled to comprehend that, and then to take it a step further. The brief had to also say in order to get these kinds of products. It had to have in there, and how do we make it such that you can hide it from your parents? With things like highlighter, and USB's and lipsticks than it led us back into the overarching communication strategy, the bigger thing is what we say to the general public about our products, and how we say that we geared towards adults that we want to help. Stop Smoking. It's it is just. It is just sinister, but luckily in the US, we have the FDA that come after the like this and. My wife listened to the purdue episode the day and she asked me why if the do anything? This. And is very similar as well it. Didn't come down. To degration that I would have expected from them in the circumstance right and I think we see the FDA. Start to step in in this situation in two thousand seventeen, which I think was also late to the game. And it's still an ongoing situation where they're still on going back and forth with jewel, but as it starts to be this outcry from parents who are starting to really. Have a lot of problems with their kids. Because of this, you know, there's multiple lawsuits that are now being filed by parents of underage users, claiming that the company is deceptively marketing, the products is safe and targeting underage users and also targeting non smokers, which is a big. Part of calling jewels bluff on their messaging, and they claim that jewel is as addictive or even more addictive than cigarettes, so part of this is that Jewish proprietary nicotine salt formula enables higher nicotine absorption into the body than traditional cigarettes or other e cigarettes that use nicotine liquid. So not only. Is it marketed to people who wouldn't normally have developed nicotine addictions, or had any sort of relationship with nicotine, but it's a more addictive form that's going to cause mood swings and a lot of behavioral problems. It just what you need in a teenager. What you want, you're trying to get a fifteen year old successfully through high school. Crazy so many observers steering this time they saw this clarity's the eerie similarities, both in Jules appetizing and the regular response an article last year, in the San Francisco. Chronicle detailed one teens journey to tobacco addiction. And her family's attained to hold you accountable, stating that quotes mounting lawsuits against jewel reminiscent of early tobacco legislation. Getting back to the brief usually brief this background and research right right. So, what was the research here that? Hey, we're going to try to do. What Big Tobacco did we gonNA try to land us is and exactly the same spots. He said earlier when we started. You say they had a choice. They could have delivered on their promise trying to get people smokers. Away, from actually inhaling smoke, the grains has cancer, and they decided to go after children. Right mind blank to me. Has To get back to greet task. Get back to the money that they're making yes, and the fact that there is a systemic problem in that. When we look back at what happened within the tobacco industry. Fifteen fifteen million dollar fine is not a deterrent. There is no multibillion dollar corporation throwing around one point three million dollar bonuses to every single employee that is going to be deterred by fifteen million dollar fine. That's like planning your taxes. You put it aside. You know it's going to come, and it doesn't break your company. It's considered a cost of doing business. Disgusting and that's part of the problem, but the regulatory scrutiny is heating up and in two thousand Nineteen House Democrats requested internal documents from jewel is a part of an investigation into the broader epidemic of Teen vaping Representative Raja Krishna more from Illinois is the Chairman of the House oversight? Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy requested documents relating to jewel social media practices their research on jools impact on health and the deal with Altria as part of the investigation so their response Joseph's response. Hey, hey, hey, you're dog's name is Jules. Does realize that yes, well, that's what happens when you have three little girls and your wife and your girls get together to decide what the name of your dog should be. Which is also a female guess crazy? Crazy. He should have gotten like a pit bulls. And the name jewels is like rubies and diamonds. So a little bit different anyway in response to the FDA crackdown, the company announced that they would be using real real customers in their ads versus models. which may be a good move because these models like super young, and it just looked like teenagers using their products. In late two thousand eighteen JUL shutdown their social media accounts and again. That's massive warning signs when that happens. In Twenty Nineteen Jul agree to make changes to its youth. Practices as part of a settlement with the center of environmental, health. It states that the center can sued you if they violate any portion of the agreement. The agreement states that jewel not, and there's like a few different things. APPETIZER promote its products in media with audiences that fifty percents or more under the age of twenty one. Markets or advertising social media except Gills Age restricted youtube channel so hang on, so they can still promote its products to children as long as not fifteen percent or more of the audiences, children that just can't courts, and if they could court the. We have the option to potentially something about it, but we're not. Committing anything a little bit of a gag order. If you do this, this might happen. That's interesting. Okay, so yeah I mean basically. They say that they are not supposed to use models under the age of twenty eight. And that they cannot advertise within a thousand feet of schools or playgrounds. because. Thing we're summer, S. It's crazy, so you can't sponsor. Advertise it sporting events or concerts that allow people under the age of twenty one. You can't pay for or. Permit Company. Employees contractors to appear, at school or youth oriented educational programs is really sounds like a joke, doesn't it? Just the fact that this is even needed right? Yeah, you can't continue to use the terms adults only or not for use by minors, which actually has been shown to entice minors to use jewel products. And they have to replace that with the phrase, the sale of tobacco products to minors prohibited by Law You can't allow unlimited purchase of your products anymore. You have to set clear limits on book sales, and lastly the settlement requires the jewel has to continue its secret shopper program with specific rules on actions. The company must take if a store sells a product to a jewel secret shopper without asking for proof of age, so the fact that this exists is not surprising. Jewel continues to play both sides. The fact even put in place in the response to the lawsuit jewels spokesman. Not your dog jewel's jewel's spokesman said. Jewel labs do not believe that the case has any merits and all defended vigorously. This is an article in the Forbes magazine. The company also made more prominent warnings. They launched an educational campaign. Such a joke colds. What parents need to know about Jew? And this was supposed to combat the under a series. And, let's actually play a quick clip your from the CEO Talking about just this. Blow America amass tool. See your jewel, the makers of America's favorite electric cigarettes. We recently come under fire for advertisements, targeting young children, and as the face. This company I just might tell you. We are so sorry. We would never mark the developing brains America's future because. That's children. They're our future so special apology to all jewel users a free pack for expanded flavors. That means you get Cherry Berry Unicorn. Blue Raspberry Rainbow and minecraft! Okay, so you can see clearly doesn't take seriously. This is ridiculous. But as a as a marketer, desist like ridiculous to me that this even exists, but what's even more ridiculous is that that is not the CEO. and. By College Humor Anyway. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Let's let's listen to a real interview of the. I think it was on the CBS morning show. Take a listen there. People say jewel is toxic. Is it. The product of the company. Interesting that you would. You would ask the product. We toxicology test all of our products. So when people say the long term effects of vaping are not known. That's true. That's true. That's a true statement. Yeah, he's right. The fact that he answered the company or the products is telling and during this time. They knew that it was toxic. It's public right now, but there's no no way that in Twenty Nineteen August twenty and nineteen the CEO of the company. had. No. This was toxic and they were marketing to children right, and when you listen to the entirety of this interview. It's pretty clear that he knows what's going on. He doesn't really try to defend it. He just Kinda, says yeah, yeah. I see why people think that's problematic. Yeah, my see why people think that's problematic and doesn't really have any response really for question after question. That's post to him willing to interview in the show as well so let's actually play another clip from that interview. Fair to say if you. If you knew this to be a toxic or dangerous substance, you wouldn't be selling. I can't imagine we had. The data supports that we're selling a product. That is damaging to the American public and we had that data that we continue to sell that product reason I have to ask because the tobacco industry doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to telling the truth and the American people about what they're selling. Yeah, there is a lot of segregation that comes with us later means while we wouldn't play now. You ask same abouts. Do you think people might not trust you because you've got his billions and billions of dollars from altria Philip Morris? And why did you do that and you to say it? Because we discussed it as leadership team and we felt it was the thing to do for the company, because we'll have access this money and their distribution senses and. It is just from the outside. From a marketing space, this is really just disgusting. It is blatant lies and destroying. Kids it's disgusting I. Find it a really. Discussing. Yes. Thank. Annoys me is one of those episodes that we're going to walk away from and I'm going to be depressed for the next two days like I was with. Right so the next one needs to be uplifting in a great comeback story. With you. That's a good plan. Yeah I mean you can. You could just tell that they know what they're doing and don't care so jewel co-founder Muncie said. Underage use is an issue. We desperately want to resolve any underage consumers using this product are absolutely a negative for our business. We don't want them. We will never market to them. We never have and they're stealing life years from adult cigarette consumers at this moment, and that's a shame so early last year jewel announced a ten million dollar advertising campaign targeting current. Current adult smokers and trying to rebrand jewel as a product to help people switch in March. Jewel started it self to employers and insurers to help. Their employees stopped smoking cigarettes. This enterprise level to campaign offers discounts and personal coaching along with support video to participants, it September the US FDA warrant jewel to stop. It's deceptive marketing practices. Stop Stop. They warned them. They warned them. They go warning after all this after all this stuff. All the marketing the lawsuits if warned them September of Twenty nineteen. Don't know man I don't know we work with the FDA lots, and it's such a laborious process to. Santa Creative through its, and you know the hoops to jump through years go to company that blatantly markets to children, and they get a warning gripe well, and the thing is as you mentioned. Deleting your social media accounts is usually a bad sign. If you ever get to the point where you think Ooh, we may need to take our counts down. There's a problem but that problem. Isn't solved or resolved by taking those accounts down actually a month later they stopped all marketing in the US voluntary right. They just like pull the plug and they continued marketing in the UK, I think, but now there's multiple lawsuits going on with within there as well. So Dr Jack Ller from Stanford's the gentleman I talked about earlier. He said that Joel's social media reach has lasting repercussions. As in November, two, thousand, eighteen, the company's Premium Hashtag, Hash tag Jew had been used two hundred sixty thousand times in instagram posts. The and those posts aren't getting deleted. Only Jewish account got deleted, but all those hashtag posts are still up. and I wonder which percentage of the two hundred sixty thousand are underage kids versus adult. Smoking's trying to quit. So jewel says that ninety nine percent of all social media content related to the company's generated through to your point, third party quote, third party users and accounts with no reation of the company. The company around that it's called influence or marketing you. Going he can't say oh, we don't. We don't create the content. Is these third party content? People they've could seriously. That's just disgusting. It's called talking out of both sides of your mouth, so their network of social influencers creates this massive unpaid peer to peer impact. is obviously still going on doesn't stop just because the campaigns have ended. Jacker says turning off their social media channels is likely to have at most a limited fact. And recommend that the products simply be pulled from the market, so the founders of jewel continue to stand behind their product just last year. Co Founder James Mancini's said in an article in Forbes that he thinks that they can get the technology to a place where no underage consumer can ever use the product and he sees continuing opportunity. We are point five percent of global tobacco market. We've hardly. Hardly touched the problem we came here to solve. Do you know when you say? We point five percent of the tobacco market? They are seeing green. They are seeing that got ninety five point nine percent white space available to them, and if the gun industry conned regulates or Figura how children can should guns of by accident? How on Earth is a nicotine company going to prevent children's six? Teenagers from using their product it's laughable. Man What have we learned feel like which has been rambling in bashing it, but this is important. The reason why we want to talk about this is because I. do think there's some things to learn about this. From of Morgan perspective I think if you don't learn from your past. You just dead in the water. It's just so funny to me like the market research we do when we launch brands or have huge massive campaigns. is so strong. It plays such a big impact on our strategies that become up with. So I'm just surprised. They just completely ignored that and gain i. just think that is purely based on greed. They was starting to make so much money, and they just want to get more and more and more and the final thing for me is. Done. Market to kids, period and I think we should do an episode around. The ethical -Ness of marketing towards children I I just for me. Personally I think there's no place in the marketing industry to market anything children zero. It's a really big ethical discussion, because there are so many products that are marketed to children, good products, bad products, the tactics for marketing to children are broad and varied everything from youtube videos to cartoon characters on the cover of cereal box, right, and so there are so many different. Influences on children from a marketing perspective that just like we talk about on a number of episodes that we've covered. Those influences are very often unknown, undetected and widely present. In the lives of of our kids, so it is an interesting topic that I think would be amazing to dive into and with that. I think that's a good place to end. Keep the reviews coming everybody. We really hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll talk to you next week. Current kick to kick the habit. You've been listening to the marketing rescue podcast. This show is hosted by NICO CASSIA and Chad. Children's the CO founders of KPI agency a marketing. Rescue Agency. BE SORTA? Visit Marketing Rescue PODCASTS DOT COM to join the conversation access. The show notes, contact the hosts and discover fantastic funds confidence.

nicotine jewel US FDA jewel labs FDA America purdue INSTAGRAM Stanford Altria CBS Ding Ding Ding Joel Jules Nico Do Stanford Katya publishing NATO
Kathy Bates, 'Richard Jewell'

Popcorn with Peter Travers

21:35 min | 6 months ago

Kathy Bates, 'Richard Jewell'

"The in everybody. I'm Peter Travers and and this is popcorn where we tell you what's happening at the movies and there's a great movie for you to see right now called Richard Jewel based on a true story but my guest today Kathy Athey Bates who you know from so many things I could mention them but then the show would be over because she has too many credits too many awards but she plays the title character's actors mother in this and she will break your heart six ways from Sunday. But today we're GonNa be having fun are absolutely welcome to the first time you've done done. This popcorns yours get no no. I've lost sixty pounds in managed to keep it off the last three or so I've been on. They sell popcorn pretty okay at least and we're smelling as Peter Stocks. The top doing this so you just got of course all the awards you have. Now you have a new nomination as best supporting actress for Richard Jewel for me. Ah The best award for this movie has been the fact that bobby jewel richards mom who's still alive Loves the movie. Because if she didn't now I know Gosh 'cause in the movie you know how she got Tom Brokaw. I know I know I know. We don't want her to be getting mad. Now you know and also You know there have been Statues in Centennial Park and young and Billy Payne who brought the Olympics to Atlanta. And finally there's going to be a a plaque with Richard's name and what did he say. Oh well that's a good thing should set that up or you should. Why should I work really really? Yeah that's it no Richard Jewel. That's the name of the movie. Clint Eastwood directed at but a true story. Can you tell us a little about Richard J. Just absolutely Richard had been a cop for a few years and then resigned or was fired depending on how you look at it. And then he we went to become a guard at at A college nearby and he got leftover the the thing with Richard that I found so tragic about this whole story story is that he was this hyper vigilant person. Ever since he was a kid at nine of the police the police even as a kid eight in church he wanted to help people And even in Turkey would run around and make sure everybody had a program and then later on when he was a cop he carried like one one hundred thirty pound you know battering Ram but he also had beanie babies for the kids who he might find who had been in accidents so he could give him he was is just this generous simple humble kind man who wanted to help everybody and it was that vigilance that Helped him in his job. He was hired to be a security guy for the Olympics. They were calling everybody in and he was at the sound and light tower and and he'd gone off to the restroom and he came back and there was a bench there and he noticed right away there was what they call an Alice. Pack this big military pack the officious very suspicious and so he told the sit idle like that and they say oh. Come on Richard he said no no I have a bad feeling and they so they brought in the bomb guys and he described it that the the guy went underneath and looked at it and then he just froze and he just back very slowly out and he told his buddy to turn turn a cell phone off and they tried to get everybody back as many people back but through a series of mishaps and nine one one calls and not being able to get in touch touch with people Eric Rudolph who actually planted the bomb and was not caught until like six years later Had this phone message You know there's going to be a bomb in Centennial Park in thirty minutes and thanks to Richard got all that is out of the tower. He was running up and down with doing everything everything a hand and suddenly he became this hero in and then for three days three days and his mother was all got that three day. Yeah my mom his his mom he's on TV. He's bets right he's on. TV is the hero of the day if CNN wanted to talk to him and what turned out was there was a leak from the FBI to Cathy scruggs at the Atlanta Journal Constitution and they decided to break the story and overnight they everybody turned against him and said he was the he was the guy he exempts Mama Except Momma. She was there for him she was they were very very close. She had two miscarriages ages and Richard was her only child and Both his real dad and his step step dad banished from their lives for various. The reasons and So he was her child her boy you know and she knows she knows how he can be be overzealous knows the things that he shouldn't be doing. You trust the police so much too much that it cost him by they use. This is what was so cruel colon. I remember when I started out working with Clint. We were all there to meet with him and I said why do you want to do this movie. And he said because I think it's an American tragedy and he said this is a story that people need to see Jon Hamm was down in Atlanta and people said well what are you doing down here. And he said Oh it's about the bombing and Oh yeah that guy. Richard Jewell who was the bomber summer. Because there's some suspicion and for eight days without any evidence People camped out you know media the FBI suspected in even when they brought him in for his first interview they already had a cell for him. Yeah we like him for this. That's what they always say. Yeah because the public. Everybody's demanding to know who did this. There's that desire. Why are to get somebody up there and say he did it well? There were millions and millions of dollars resting on this because of the Olympics and they had to get it sorted say it's nineteen ninety-six on this is happening so we weren't even in the big cellphone period of the everything was just taking off and don't forget we'd had waco the Federal Building we had Ruby Ridge. We had ninety three Truck Bombing World Trade Center so it was the beginning of the new normal ordinarily of this terrorism. And and it's that going. That's that seesaw. From we love you to stay away from us. I think that the real tragedy and I'm sure that this is what bobby default is that the very quality that enabled him to find that bomb his vigilance. They turn that into a liability And they beat him up with it that to me I think is just the tragedy of all. We'll one amazing scene that you have among renting in this is when bobby went on national. TV making a plea to President Clinton at the time yes to see what's happening and do something for some. Yes so let's look a little bit attack okay. My son is innocent. Richard is not the Olympic the big park bomber. He saved people's lives. Please hear me Mr President and help me. My son is a hero. If they do not intend to charge my son. You please tell us. Please tell the world Mr President. Please clear heartbreaking. Breaking it is is really is. I don't know how many times you had to do that. Well actually we got it in the first take. That's so clint into eastwood is fresh and real. Whenever I've been on a set of this it's always let's move on now but you know people say that the do said I J do when you're always think it's going to be quick but it's not that he takes his time and he leaves it open and it so efficient that he doesn't need need to do more than a couple of takes? Is this your first time with Clint Eastwood. Absolutely absolutely what was that like was a nervous wreck I was a nervous wreck. Check it I I and I think we all were because we all wanted to just I mean we all WanNa do our best all the time. But when you're with someone like client or Mike Nichols just you really and I think we also felt a real responsibility to bobby she survived. Of course she's still alive. And and Richard passed away ten years later he was thirty three when this happened and He got some money CNN NBC you know. They sued them and but the Atlanta Journal Constitution never accepted responsibility for it and the real. FBI Guy who's played by. I Jon Hamm went to his grave saying this guy did it. We see that teen in the movie where he says I still think yeah even when somebody else has confessed knowing it. That's the kind of thing. Well it's a movie that is pretty hard basically on the media and on the feds. It's really saying that in a world where we're supposed to trust certain things we've lost it you know that was nineteen ninety. Six things are worse now. Well and I think it's important to realize is that they just got it wrong and they were in such a rush to try and say the Olympics. That had really. This was only the second day I think it'd be Olympics and and So that was really driving it. And I don't WanNa paint it with two broader brush because look more than ever we need the truth from the press more than ever we I need the truth from the FBI. You know the government we depend on those institutions so that was very specific to this case and I hope people people don't feel that we're just trying to malign those institutions. What does Clinton do when after take? He's happy with it. Well this is what I love of about him and and I didn't realize this is that he just lets the camera. Keep going and we just keep going The scene may be done. I mean our lines. May It'd be done. But we just keep improvising and just continuing to live in that situation and he gets a lot of great stuff that he can use and it's also an opportunity for us to have more time together to experience the chargers together especially nowadays when you don't have rehearsal time you're you'd have your as my friend. Jessica Tandy God rest or used to say your kitchen work nowadays. You have to do your kitchen or in your kitchen you know at at home alone so it's great to have that it's been working. Well when he was when Clinton was here last he was saying that he hates movies. Where the director will say? Hey you know because he said I'm really quiet about it. I just go go when you're ready when you're ready. Just do something I also heard about. I don't know if this is is apocryphal. Or not was when he was doing Spaghetti Westerns and they would scream action the worst would at all also in TV. You know it's just also crazy. The and I think that's when he he developed his style he thought you know. Wait a minute. Everybody's just rushing in and getting it wrong and rushing and getting it wrong again and he just wanted to keep it real simple simple. He says when you're ready people going like this and I remember the first time adequate seen merge running downstairs in Iran into the sound guy who are really liked and I was was trying to speak French Dami said and I thought I thought the scene was over. You know and then that's when I realized it's not over till it's over it until he says it's yeah that's got it he also has. Can I just say he has an amazing cameramen Stephen Campanella he's he's been with them for twenty five years like many of the people on the crew. It's like a family and he just knows how to tell that story with the camera and one of my favorite shots and Clint's to win when the FBI are there. And you see Richard putting his blue gloves on and we've been telling him and telling them not to help the police and then it pans over to salmon. I just standing there looking at him. Like he's never gonNA stop. You know you just wants to throttling. But whatever he's doing he's doing great eighty nine now. Yeah he's still sexiest. Hell you go see. And you've turned that he is. He is sexy telling you. Imagine what it'd be like when he's ninety at like good wine. Everything is perfect to do. Well you you've worked with so many people you know Mike Nichols and primary primary colors. He's somebody I missed tremendously. He's not only a great director but he's just one of the smartest most fun people people that ever lived on this earth. Yeah I agree I remember. I was at an awards thing I think it was the EMMYS and and I lost you know and like about half an hour later. I get this text for Mike. Saying you're among one of my favorite actors I've ever worked with and I thought well that's it dude. I know it's like how lovely of him to do that. In that moment it is but he was right well he was well. It was one of the high points of my life to work with him. I and with that task and yet you had women your Oscar movie misery where I'm looking at you and I could still hear any wilkes saying he didn't get out out of the car. I didn't do that. And yet it to me in terms of the Stephen King when you did Dolores Claiborne like four or five years later. That was just as good time. Now Tony Gilroy adapted tapped novella that Steven wrote and which we I wished the film had gotten more attention that year but I think people go watch it now. Yeah go watch it now after we finish. It's a great cast Christopher plummer and Jennifer. Jason Leigh and Taylor Hacker did an amazing job and talk about lead time. That's what I'm saying. He understands what actors need and because I had to play a woman in different points of her life I had amazing makeup and hair and dialogue and all of that so I had all the tools at my disposal. And that's why I wish people would see it because I'm very proud of that but there's so much I mean it's an incredible career. I remember seeing you for the first time on. stage vanities that Oh you did did. I was four years old but I loved it. Great thanks it was great. So how are you feeling now about your life and career. I'm feeling well. I was sick with breast cancer in two thousand twelve Had A double double mastectomy and they remove lymph nodes and in my case the lymph fluid built up in my arms and I had seen my mother go through this but I didn't know what it was. It was in your family. Yup and I went to a doctor who helped me with manual lymph drainage and pomp and I had to go several the cost. CALL LYMPH DIMA ten million Americans suffer from lymph Edina and that's more than a LS muscular dystrophy. MS Alzheimer's Alzheimer's and AIDS. It's horrible Parkinson's in age. Excuse me and you're a spokesman for I am a spokesperson for it and it's so if you ask me how I'm doing. It's a perfect balance in my life. I've got this career that I still feel strong in and then I've got the opportunity to live in the real world worked with the NIH the CDC now has a video of me talking about Olympic team on their cancer website. which is something we really fought hard for and and in New York We passed a bill so that it's mandatory for clinics and hospitals to provide information to cancer patients Because anytime the limb system is damaged people at risk and the sad events though. Is that like a swelling of the lymph and if the limb system backs up the legs or the arm swell doctors spent in four years of medical school. Fifteen minutes on the entire lymphatic system. Oh what is that about ten million and fifteen minutes and so if you go to your GP and you've got a problem. He'll say we'll go home and eat salads and unfortunately it's progressive progressive and incurable and many people can't afford adopted doctor shop so they go for years without getting helped. In fact I met Sam Rockwell's uncle and his mom had a swollen arm and didn't know what it was and they saw. Yeah he's she saw one of the programs that I've been unable to do and she got to a doctor and got treatment. And she's better. Do you do when it's an incurable. There's not much we can do except for me go. Oh for manual lymph drainage and then they put one of those moms. It's in both my arms. But here's the thing too. Is that you get an infection often called cellulite as bacterial bacterial infection. That has to be treated with antibiotics. And if you don't then you could go into sepsis and occasionally people do die from it. Well good for you for going out there. I'm pissed that I had breast cancer and Olympia Dima no kidding now I'm actually happy because I can do something and in the real world that means something that can help people. When Chris told me that last night I was like this is the best day of my life? You know to to understand that I really helped someone because you don't always get that feedback. I think it's very rare where that happens. Also you were able to listen and say it could be this. And he didn't know me I. That's what I mean but you were introduced and you could see something great so yes when you get a cancer diagnosis. It has to do something to you. Yeah well at that. Particular summer was hard. Because of my show Harry's law I had just been cancelled and that was a mistake yes and it was a gut punch hand I wish that NBC had taken. You know better had focused on our show more and So then I discovered I had breast cancer and Peter. I swear to you that that moment I thought my career's over and Then God bless Ryan Murphy. He came along and my friend Jessica Lang and He changed my life. He opened the Third Act with a bang. You know said come on there are yeah I have to let you go but this is the first time you've been on this show. Yes it is. I hope it's not the last last. Please back with bobby and all of that would be great. Be We ended song. And you're a musician well way back while it's not I don't care when want one person sings sin. He did a great. I can't get started with you really. Yes but I'm just. It's not looking for a false song just a little bit of I'd Septa say they're singing songs Alone but not for me and I think that's all the lyrics. I remember how I was a singing waitress in the catskills hat skills. We'll see that's a whole other. We come back. We're going to begin in the cats absolutely and see what other jobs that you took power. That led you to all of this but Kathy your delight always thank you so are you just endorsed great together. Just take on the role. We make sure we have a popcorn machine now. They won't let me take it out of building. If they're serious about that stuff we could describe we could do. ABC Oscar Sunday. You'll be seen star Leonardo DiCaprio Brio Sharleen Farris Tom. Hanks Herschel. All Scarlett Johansson movies. Biggest night here billy island helped since the GM am and sell Margot Robbie Pinella crew Timothy Salomon Yano food will win gold and the Oscar gays to be offered. Authored live Sunday eight hundred five Pacific on A._B._C..

Richard Clint Eastwood Olympics bobby jewel FBI Richard Jewel Mike Nichols President Clinton Jon Hamm Atlanta Journal Kathy Athey Bates Atlanta Richard J. CNN President Tom Brokaw Peter Travers director Turkey Peter Stocks
Crown jewel predictions

The big d zone

12:59 min | 10 months ago

Crown jewel predictions

"Hey everybody this is Prince Dj. And I want to tell you you know now you listen to your favorite radio radio. Show or your podcasting Well I could do that though now with anchor you can. I love you in anchor Because this is one of the many way that the takedown gets to grow more on More people and you can do it too. So if you sign up for anchor the day you could be on your way to get your listeners. You could find the show you you want. You can do news you do sports. You could do talk. You could do trivia. Just be yourself be who ever ever you want to be but most important have fun. That's why have fun. This is your show. This is your moment. Make it what you want to be sign of anchor and you will not be sorry that you did this. Prestigious have a great day. Okay this is a prince. Dj Back in the palace. This is going to be my I wrestling prediction backs and Being at the palace at the my home crews use and the first pay per view pack if Crown Jewel and it's only five matches that's already I've been an output of course matches and cars has always felt it to change with or without notice and Vince does have athey Cronk phot- infamous way. I'll always writing the show at the very last minute so we're going to have the five matches that is In for Crown Jewel in Saudi Arabia's GONNA take place in Halloween so the Halloween crown jewel and So yeah so. Let's go ahead and chip matchup out to my own. My own way of who is going to win on clown deal in Halloween so are we had the universal championships First female break while they allowing Bray Wyatt falls count anywhere match. And you know this was going to be expected after suffering a burnt down the firefight fun. How even the Fifi Fun houses but One of the cast had died which is the rapid ah character and but nonetheless nonetheless now I was just a W. unlimited Which is one of my tosses source of listening? I don't have. I don't like the odds that they have on there. So this is my prediction Who I think I think that's GonNa win and I think that brave wide or define is going to finally get his justice dirt art? He's finally going to get the Universal Championship title and firefighter. FUNHOUSE has been a head and the scene character has been with the WWe universe and for for wwe the have him loose to tunnel matches in a row. One and Helena the sound awful awful ending ending in a D Q and not gonna serve send in well with fans if it don't end and pray riot on getting the title. I mean it's just it's just the way it is because they are fuming about the Helena sell tragedy and at this key though there might even be a ride in Connecticut Bill Ryan and I do not want to be a part. What about that? But I think that hopefully that wii the scene we'll finally get his revenge so wwe championship match bark lessner versus Last class came vast glass. Now I know chain classes either. Ns t caught up on. Someone knew that. W W the Hafstein and for that's great is to get an automatic title shod after brought Listener At the park luster you know. took the title stole the title away from Kofi Kingston at the Fox. Getting his way over smackdown. I don't think that's a good showing at all. Aw what. WWe Or Fath- has done to Kingston though. But I do think I do think and as you yeah no I am anti. He'll pro anti. He'll pro F- K.. Faith so I'm GonNa go with vast class to be brought lessner and And Hopefully Sam Bartlett back to the UFC where he ultimately belong and tennis Well I don't know if they could do anything about His mouthpiece but I now so they go. Fast class is going to be The new champion high. We have barnstorming the monster. My man versus Tyson fury now. Now I haven't seen anything about the feud about Tyson fury but I do know Boss stolman allowed. He's the one that always get detained. Anthon he won matches and he lost a loss patches as well I think Brownstone have for the taste to get revenge over his losses. And I think he's GonNa take it all out on Tyson fury and being the fat. What's been happening lately? So installment is going to get revenge on Tyson fury there you go all right an S. match okay this is GonNa be Team Hogan vs team flair. Okay team Hogan confessed of the Roman Reigns Cochet rousseff alley and a shortage G.. kind of late the name but it's Versus team flair with Randy. Orton King Cormon dunning. You deserve to be called King. I'm just GONNA call him Corbin Soon Eskimo Nakimora Bobby. Lashley and drew McIntyre so those are the teams that team Hogan and and team flare. So I'm of course it's going to go with the baby face which is going to be team Hogan with the team of Moraine Ricochet Eh rousseff alley and shorty. Gee I'M GONNA go with debt team though and the fact that our team Hogan at at the change flare I mean the team hogue is skewed the had to change. Captain that last minute It all worked out at the end. They still got the heavy heavy had and it all still worked out all right so aw we also Granada match and I moved think to. Pw Unlimited didn't Fade describe but there's GonNa be a twenty man battle royal for the United States Championship and There is not known of of who is going to be in the fifty man battle. Royal so But the winner will earn a a shot at the US champion Aj style later in that particular show so whoever win in the twenty man bottle whale gotta come back the same gotta come back to Saint Nine and Russell Aj style for the United Nice State Championships. So wow double duty for that vessel or a double duty for that superstar so twenty man battle okay. So as I was saying before I got Rulli got cut off and I were talking about the twenty man twenty man battle royal for the the titled the Aj Styles have and then had have to fight for the state night. I got cut off so like I said before. I can't make a prediction because I don't know who's going to be in a twenty man battle. Royal Royal Card is always to change without notice Let's get back to see if there's any more matches than they had me start all over again all good grief. Good good grief. I so we that the twenty man battle royale already did on so like I said the United States champion pin is After the winner of the twenty man battle. Royale don't know when that's GonNa come but now there's going to be like a tag team turmoil match and it's going to be the largest tag team match for the Crown Jewel in the world and there's not switching the new day. The Viking Raiders Heavy Machinery Party that writer and Co hearkens the revival the Oh sees dulcet. Robert Robert Rude and the peace team so a lot of big teams that heading up to this tag team terminal. Now I have to the idol. I'd like to win this tag team. I have have to like the new day. Sort of getting revenge for Kofi Kofi. Kingston and defy defy can raiders. Okay so I like the new day and the Viking raiders to to win this either one of these two team to win in this D The largest tag team tunnel in WWE history and taking place in cloud. y'All okay so my senior versus shovel and this is going to be. This match was announced House on twitter. And it's just the amount Matt's for the local crowd and So it's just like one of those. It's home town match over in Saudi Arabia. I don't know if it's going to be televised or not. Going to be one of those dark matches but right now I get the autumn. My Elat usually get the wrestling match news if I can on. CBS wwe. Because I like the way they do the they announced matches. And who's going to be on there. So that way I can make a petition on who I think is GonNa win. Sow Don't know much about the twenty man battle. Royal don't know who's GonNa take on the United States champion a j styles that could be be determined that same night thou- we will soon see at trout jewels on the thirty first and if anything changed well all day today anyway. So that's part two. I was hoping to do it all in one tape. But when he got back

Team Hogan United States wwe WWe Tyson Saudi Arabia Kingston Kofi Kingston Kofi Kofi Russell Aj Hogan Sam Bartlett Helena Vince CBS UFC twitter Helena
Olympic Bombing and The Wrong Man, Richard Jewell | 12

History of the 90s

45:38 min | 8 months ago

Olympic Bombing and The Wrong Man, Richard Jewell | 12

"Every four years for two weeks the world is united as it cheers on the greatest athletes to go faster higher and stronger. At the Summer Olympics in one thousand nine hundred ninety six millions cheered when Mohammed Ali took the stage at the opening ceremony in Atlanta to light the Olympic cauldron. His body had been slowed by Parkinson's but was shaking hands. He managed to ignite both the flame mm-hmm and the spirit of the one hundred Olympic Games. The Olympic spirit burn bright that night and continued until eight days as later when tragedy struck on this episode. We look back at the deadly bombing that rocked the nineteen ninety-six Eighty six Atlanta Summer Olympics. And the man wrongfully placed at the center of it all Richard Jewel. I'm Cathy can Zora. And this is is the history of the nineties. A podcast about a decade that changed the world On in July Twenty Six thousand nine hundred ninety six the security guard responsible for watching over a sound and light tower at the Center of Centennial Olympic. Park Harkin Atlanta arrived a half hour early for his overnight shift. It was the eighth day of the Summer Games and the park and with its pavilions stages and exhibits was a hub of activity. It was the crown jewel for the Atlanta Organizing Committee. A place where people could come together and feel the Olympic spirit for free like every law enforcement or security job he ever had. This guard took his position at the Olympics very seriously. He was alert to any signs of trouble when he clocked in that night. He had no idea just how much trouble lurked around the corner. He had no idea that his life would never be the same. His name was Richard Jewel. He was thirty three years old and lived with his mom bobby in a small apartment in Atlanta. He had recently returned home to his mother after quitting his job as a security guard at Piedmont Piedmont College in a small town a couple hours north of the city. The reason he left his previous job was that he took his position as a campus cop way too seriously. He was so eager that he even started patrolling areas off campus and pulling over people people to issue warnings and citations. His boss was always telling him to relax. And after the call received one too many complaints about the security guard he was put on probation. Jewel wasn't happy about it so he decided to quit and move on. It was actually only the second job that he had quit recently before working as a campus cop he was a deputy sheriff in nearby Halberstam County for five and a half half years Richard. You'll was a guile but very eager young man who wanted desperately to be in law enforcement that's journalists Kevin Salwen who recently co wrote a book about jewel called the suspect. He he says Jewell was a pretty good cop who loved what he did but he just couldn't stop getting into trouble oftentimes. It was over his own driving when he was just he was just a dreadful driver. got into accidents all the time. He drove a vehicle. That has been banged up. So often that It was referred to by his friends of death. Mobile and trump was bundy down and but Richard could not get out of his own way in many ways in one particularly spectacular crash jewel wrecked the sheriff's own car will pulling a prank on another officer. He he hit a hydro pole and knocked out power to the neighboring area when he was demoted. Because of the stunt Jill decided it was time to move on. He dreamed of getting another job in law enforcement but for now he was happy to work as a security guard at the summer Olympics. which were coming soon into his hometown? The National Olympic Committee is awarded the Nineteen Ninety six Olympic Games to the city of Atlanta. 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There's more for free on apple podcasts. spotify or wherever. You're listening to this podcast. You can also find it on on curious. CAST DOT. Ca Atlanta is home to almost five point nine million people dole and it's the ninth most populated city in the US and in nineteen ninety. The city was proud to be called upon to host the ninety six summer games after beating out an impressive list of other cities including Athens Toronto and Melbourne Kent Alexander who co wrote the suspect with Kevin Selwyn was the US attorney for the northern district of Georgia and is a lifelong resident of Atlanta. He said winning. The game meant everything to the city in nineteen ninety when we won the Olympics there was not any real history of Atlanta winning much much anything we'd ever wanted. NFL TITLE NBA World series nothing and so most of us just assume this would be another disappointed. Appoint their back by that point. We've been branded loser. Ville USA by numberth publications so it was just huge when we you got the news with Atlanta one. They just exploded excitement over the next six years. Preparations for the Games included an unprecedented precedence. Security plan a New York Times article in Nineteen ninety-six called it the largest peacetime security operation for a public event in American Eric in history. There were thirty thousand security guards including fourteen thousand soldiers. Patrolling the events at a cost of over three three hundred million dollars the underlying fear. was that the Games would be an easy target for either foreign or domestic terrorists. The planning covered the possibility of bombs kidnappings and even a poison gas attack like the one on the Tokyo. Subway system that occurred heard the year before had killed twelve people and injured thousands. Also in the back of everyone's mind were to recent terrorist attacks on on. US soil the World Trade Center truck bomb in Nineteen ninety-three and the Oklahoma City bombing carried out by homegrown terrorists. Timothy McVeigh and to add to that just two days before the games were set to open. TWA flight eight hundred had mysteriously exploded off the coast of Long Island killing all two hundred and thirty people on board. Tensions were high but officials felt prepared for whatever might come their way. Eight days into the Games. Things were going well all that planning seemed to be paying off about twelve thousand thousand. People had gathered at the main stage in Centennial Park for a free concert by Mac Jack and the heart attack. The atmosphere was electric. People partied and dance. Does the band played on just before one am Richard. Jewel spotted a green backpack under a bench a few minutes. That's early or a group of intoxicated. Young men had been standing around the bench drinking beer. Jewel assumed one of them must have left the bag behind. He called over a nearby police officer. Tom Davis and told him what was going on together. They began searching for the young men when they found them. The men set not our bag. Jewel was immediately worried but according to Alexander and Sounes Book. The suspect officer Davis. Wasn't that concerned over. One hundred suspicious bags have been reported in the first eight days of the Games and they all turned out to be just lost or forgotten by their owners but the officer followed protocol and radio the command center about the situation while they waited jewel and the police officer cleared a fifteen foot perimeter around the backpack within a few minutes and FBI. Bomb attack was on the scene down on his hands and knees. He crawled under the bench with a flashlight in hand to look at the backpack when he carefully unzipped it what he saw. Aw stopped him dead in his tracks wiring pipes end caps and a timing device. The tech carefully. He crawled away and the Bom Management Center was called one problem. They were twenty minutes away. It was now one eight A.. M. As concert goers danced about a dozen officers formed formed a human shield and pushed people back they were trying to expand the perimeter around the bench and the backpack Richard Jewel joined them after running into the tower to warn everyone about the threat officers. Were having a hard time clearing the area. According to Alexander and Sounes book a lot of people had been drinking and they were too busy watching the concert to heed the warning by police then at one twenty am as law on forcement contemplated a full evacuation the homemade pipe. Bomb spiked with nails and screws exploded. The explosion was deafening the ground around and nearby buildings shook. The flash was fiery orange smoke billowed into the sky and the smell of gunpowder was everywhere. Nails and screws rain down on the crowd. The metal bits slice through clothing and flesh of scores of spectators. When the dust settled from the bomb bodies were scattered everywhere screaming and moaning filled build the air one hundred eleven people had been injured including two dozen police officers and forty four year old Alice? Hawthorne was debt her body riddled with shrapnel. Hawthorne had been at the park with her fourteen year old daughter who was among those injured in the blast a forty year old Turkish camerman also died that night. He suffered a heart attack. While running to cover the the explosion as the sun rose in Atlanta Olympic officials announced to the world. The Games would go on just as they did in. Nineteen seventy two when Palestinian terrorists killed eleven Israelis at the Munich Games. US President President Clinton offered words of encouragement to a nation shaken. By what had happened. We will take every necessary step to protect the athletes. Send those who are attending the Games but we must not let these attacks. Stop us from going forward. We cannot let terror win. That is not the American way the Olympics will continue. The Games will go on. The Olympic spirit will prevail. We must be firm in this. We cannot be intimidated by acts of Sir. Olympic flags flew at half staff at each game site as jittery athletes and subdued fans observed. A moment of silence centennial. Park was closed as police investigated the crime scene but all other events went ahead as scheduled. Surprisingly attendance was only slightly affected. Ninety percent of ticket holder showed up to take in sports like track and field diving beach volleyball and baseball all. Meanwhile it was all hands on deck for the FBI and other law enforcement agencies as they gathered evidence and investigated numerous leads. They call them the agency's Behavioral Science Unit. You know like the guys on minehunter hunter and had them start working a profile for the possible bomber. Here's former us. Attorney Kent Alexander Pressure on Law Enforcement Enforcement Bruce huge there were two million visitors in Atlanta fifteen thousand journalists Atlanta ten thousand place. It was the biggest event in the world so No you can't get more pressure than that because it's not that anyone had to say oh this is important you should look at it. It's the fact that everyone knew. There was a bomber on the loose in back kind of crowd in Atlanta during the Olympics in nineteen ninety-six the bombers could strike again at any point so it was more pressure than I ever seen in any criminal investigation indication I was prosecuted for eleven years during the early days of the investigation. The FBI made a troubling discovery. Right around the time. That jewel discovered the backpack and alerted the police officer a nine one. One call was placed from a pay phone outside a days in two blocks away from from the park. A male caller told the nine one one operator. There's a bomb in Centennial Park. You have thirty minutes then hung up. The FBI was frustrated to learn. The warning. Never made its way to anyone at the park. You see to send a police officer to investigate. The operator operator needed an address for the park which she didn't have she called around but it took thirteen minutes to finally get the address. Then then as officers tried to sort out who had jurisdiction over the park local or state police. The bomb exploded Richard Jewel was interviewed four times by agents about what he could remember before the explosion. They may have been surprised sized by the vivid detailed descriptions he gave even drawing for agents and extensive map of the explosion site but they didn't know jewel and how seriously variously he took his job for jewel. His entire life had led to this moment and the next day jewel was at home when he got word that CNN wanted to interview him about his heroic actions on the night of the bombing. He was reluctant. Didn't he knew appearing on TV would make him extremely nervous. But Jules boss talked him into it so around eight o'clock that night he mustered mustered up the courage and he went to the CNN center across from where the bomb had gone off. He downplayed his role as a hero in the three minute interview that was broadcast broadcast. Live to the world's adding he didn't really think of himself when the bomb went off because he was too distracted by the bodies of law enforcement officers he saw flying through the air according to the book. The suspect jewel wasn't aware that his interview would play on repeat through the night. The twenty four hour news cycle was still fairly new. But that's exactly what happened and by the next morning every media outlet wanted a piece of Richard Jewel the next forty eight hours were a whirlwind of appearances and interviews. He did two more live interviews on CNN and one on NBC's Today Show with Katie couric. where she asked you if he felt like a hero he spoke to reporters from several newspapers and even got a call from a literary agent asking if he was interested in writing a book but behind the scenes the FBI was starting to have doubts about Richard Jewel as the brave and quiet man who helped avert a greater tragedy the FBI's concerns all started when they received a call from the president of Piedmont College? Ray Clear and he told agents that will working at the school. The security guard always wanted to be a hero the FBI spoke to other people at the College College who said that jewell was highly aggressive and badge heavy meaning. He was obsessed with being a cop. When agents dug into was record they discovered more trouble? Jewel had been charged with impersonating a police officer six years earlier in nineteen ninety when he was first hired as a deputy sheriff. He wasn't qualified to make arrests but he did so anyway. And he was charged after pleading guilty to a lesser charge. He was allowed to keep his job really. It was just another incident of jewel being overzealous rather than criminal but on paper it didn't look good to the FBI members of the Behavioral Science Unit were given videotape of jewel CNN interviews. We're asked to analyze them normally. CBS You when asked to develop a profile lays out the characteristics of the possible suspect but by that Monday two days after the bomb went off a report came back and according to Kent Alexander. It directly pointed a finger at jewel as the Centennial Park. Bomber it practically indicted him him and they basically put out a four page single space report. That was those instructions on how to interview ridicule and all but it was the bomber. And that's how it was read at the FBI in Atlanta at the time so yes it was unusual. The idea that a law enforcement officer might invent a situation to look like a hero wasn't something entirely new it had happened once before at the end of the nineteen eighty four Los Angeles Olympics. A local police officer discovered ticking improvised explosive device. Or an I.. I D- in the wheel. Well of a bus carrying Turkish athletes to the airport. The officer was declared a hero but then later he confessed fast to planting the device. Meanwhile in Atlanta the media presence for the Olympics was huge every outlet was scrambling for our new information in the bombing story. Ninety six such an interesting year in media. CNN is already up and running but nineteen ninety six is the year ear that MSNBC Starts Fox News Channel starts up the Wall Street Journal The New York Times and a bunch of other publications go online and so the first time so it is the year and hastened news just accelerate incredibly. There was one media outlet that was especially desperate to own the the story the hometown paper the Atlanta Journal Constitution. They have three hundred and twenty-five people dedicated to covering the Olympics. A small a group of reporters from the paper was assigned to cover the security beat including longtime copper reporter Kathy scruggs she died in two thousand thousand one but people who knew her describe an old school reporter with flair. She had extraordinary drive. And the ability to work. Sources is like no one else which sometimes men drinking with them out a bar. According to the book. The suspect scruggs wasn't into big thing increases. Her style was best described as be fast. Be First on Monday. Two days after the bomb scruggs connected with a source I within the Atlanta Police Department. who asked her if she was aware that the FBI was looking at Richard Jewel as a suspect the source had had nothing else? So scruggs started calling around. She got in touch with another more reliable law enforcement source she had known for years. They met at a bar at a back table to talk off the record. The source told scruggs that jewel fit the profile of the lone bomber. The hero zero bomber a frustrated white male former police officer or military officer a wannabe cop who wants to be a hero. The catch was the source told her she couldn't run the story yet. It would ruin the investigation. She tentatively agreed but warned her source that if she got independent cooperation her paper would run with it the next day three days after the bomb went off and as has the. US Women's softball team won the inaugural gold medal. SCRUGGS got the break. She was looking for cooperation for her story. Another another COP at the Atlanta Police Department told her that the FBI was looking at the security guard. He said everyone was talking about it. Well that was enough enough for scruggs along with her reporting partner Ron Martz scruggs typed up the story that would run in a special edition of the Atlanta Journal Constitution later that day. Hey the headline read. FBI suspects hero. Guard may have planted bomb. The story that scruggs and Martz wrote stated needed that jewel was the focus of the federal investigation into the bombing and that he fit the profile of the lone bomber former. US Attorney Kent Alexander Zander says the impact was massive. And I can tell you when the story broke and not just the JC but when other media picks it up CNN. Tom Brokaw The New York. Post others. There was fist-pounding around the table among supervisors the Atlanta because it completely changed the course. Investigation excretion every major paper in the United States except the New York Times picked up the story and ran with it. The idea that Richard Jewel was not NAUTA hero. But a possible bomber spread around the world. You could easily make an argument. Says this is the first big. Social Media Story even increased social media era. You know they were news. Organizations all over the world who were doing what essentially the equivalent of re tweets and shares and Often without any new information just essentially turning the novel and that was very dangerous and Atlanta into as soon as the story broke hordes of reporters and cameramen rushed to the apartment complex. Where jewell lived with his mother? Bobby they didn't know he was the FBI's prime suspect until jewel received a phone call from his boss. Alerting him to what was going on a couple of hours later there was a knock on the door to FBI agents had arrived to take jewel in for questioning jewel. Ask the agents. If they were there to arrest him they said no he asked if he was a suspect. They said he was a key witness and they just wanted to talk to him about what happened at the park. This assist when things get very weird. The agents told jewel. They wanted him to come to the station so they could tape the interview for a training video that that would be used for other first responders any apprehension that jewel had disappeared. He was more than happy to assist with something thing that would benefit law enforcement but it was a trick. There was no training video Back at the station. The two agents started off by questioning jewel about his job. History family background basic stuff. They didn't read him his Miranda Rights Rights. Because they didn't want to tip them off that he was a suspect. You probably know what Miranda rights are from watching TV you have the right to remain silent the right to an attorney et Cetera et Cetera. If these rights are not administered. There is the chance that anything. A suspect says could be thrown out by a judge in Washington while the interview was taking place the head of the FBI. Louie Freeh got word about what was happening and he decided to pull the plug. He called down to Atlanta an issued a direct order interrupt the interview and tell the agents to read jewel his rights as as soon as they did the security guard clued into what was going on. Everything stopped jewel called called an old friend who was an Atlanta real estate lawyer Watson Bryant Junior. He asked the agents if they were planning to arrest jewel and when they said no Bryant Bryant told them that it was the end of the interview his soon to be client would be going home. You might be surprised to learn that tactics like the fake vache. Training video are actually pretty normal for the FBI. Here's former us. Attorney Kent Alexander. I'm not saying the right decision by I any stretch but just it's important for people understand. It's just ruses are used over time. The real issue with this particular interview more than a ruse was how how they issue the Miranda warnings. That's part of the rules that I think in fact I know gave. All sorts of people heartburn so inside and outside the FBI over for the days that followed jewels interview. The media had a field day with the security guards reputation. They were ruthless. They depicted him as a hopeless donny. A fat failed sheriff's deputy with a forrest Gump personality. NBC News Anchor. Tom Brokaw shockingly went out on a limb and set of jewel. They probably have enough to arrest him right now. Probably enough to prosecute him. Even Jay Leno joked about jewel schule in his opening monologue. He said he seems to fit the typical misfit profile cop wannabe low self esteem and added that he had a scary scary resemblance to. Sean ECKERD. The Guy who whacked figure Skater Nancy Kerrigan and the need two years earlier Atlanta Assistant. Da Nancy Z.. Grace who was not yet a TV star went on Good Morning. America and all but said jewel was guilty and a newspaper editorial compared him to the the Atlanta serial child killer Wayne Williams despite being tried and convicted in the media the FBI couldn't make an arrest they had no forensic evidence tying jewell to the bomb and it wasn't for a lack of trying thirty agents with bomb. Dogs searched jewell's apartment for ten hours. They took away boxes and boxes of items belonging to both jewel and his elderly mother. The F. B. I. also obtained Warrant forcing jewel to submit DNA evidence from it. They found absolutely nothing linking jewel to the bombing. Not a single oh piece of forensic evidence. Meanwhile the Olympic Games came to a close close with many exciting moments to look back on. You might remember a few of those like when Canada's Donovan Bailey. Won The gold in the men's one hundred meter track event event and set a new world record with a time of nine point. Eight four seconds Donovan. Then went on to lead team Canada to a first place. Finish in the men's four by one hundred relay. Or how about when you ask gymnast. Kerri strug helped her team win gold when she completed a volts by landing perfectly on an injured ankle she even managed to salute the judges before collapsing to the ground at the closing ceremonies. IOC President Juan Antonio Tonio Samaranch called the Atlanta Games the most exceptional instead of his traditional best ever and in his speech. He denounced the Centennial Olympic. The park bombing stating that terrorism cannot stop. The Olympic Spirit Samaranch then asked for a moment of silence to remember the victims of the bombing as for jewel. Well he was on the second week of his ordeal and the FBI was starting to have doubts about whether he was the person they should be focused based on some media outlets also started asking questions. Bill Rankin a reporter from the AJC. The same newspaper that started ordered the media frenzy was the first to wonder about the timing of the nine one. One call remember that call was placed just before one. Am right around the time. That jewel found the backpack and reported it to a police officer. How could you have been at the park and two blocks away at the phone booth at the same time? Jewel's lawyer Watson. Bryant brought in help including civil litigator Lynnwood who was known as a pit bull doc as public perception turned in jules favor would make the decision to go on the offensive four weeks after he was identified as a suspect. Jewel was living in limbo a prisoner in his own apartment. The dozens of reporters surrounded the building. Twenty four hours a day with one media outlet going as far as renting the apartment across the hall and yet no charges had been laid. So jewell's lawyers set up a news conference for Bobby to plead her son's case through tears ears she begged US President Clinton to help her by ending the nightmare. They were going through before completely breaking down she said if the FBI doesn't intend to charge my son. Please tell us. Please tell the world Mr President. Please clear my son's name next came sixty minutes interview. which was the leading news authority at the time in an episode that aired nearly two months after the bombing did you will came off in a favourable light like a man that had been wronged by an overzealous media? His lawyer Lin Wood told Mike Wallace that they would probably be suing the Atlanta Journal Constitution as well as NBC. For the remarks made by. Tom Brokaw would said everyone. One got what they wanted. The police and the media the problem was they threw an innocent man over the side in the process. While jewel's lawyer was using the media to turn public opinion around another lawyer. Working for the security guard was meeting with officials to hammer out. A resolution mm-hmm jewel would be re interviewed by the FBI with the promise that the government would publicly declare Jill's legal status within three weeks. This here's US attorney Alexander and so the agreement was that we decide. Actually I would decide if he's a along the yeah I whether he was a target of investigation or not so on October twenty six. I handed a letter to attorney Jack. Martin and the letter said You're at this time. You're not a target of the investigation. We appreciate it. Wa- peration his attorneys at the time. Were a little upset about that. Because it wasn't a clearance letter didn't say you were no longer suspect the fact that you can't say that until you all the Alexander says the FBI couldn't Outright announced that jewel was cleared but they hope the media would absolve Jill once they got the letter. And that's exactly what happened. In in the media and in the Court of public opinion it was declared that jewel was not responsible for the tragic events in Atlanta after the announcement jewel held an emotional news. Conference this is the first time I've ever asked you to turn your cameras on me for eighty eight days ace. I lived a nightmare for eighty eight days. My mother lived a nightmare too. And it's rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber. The media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being in the days that followed jewell's lawyers filed several lawsuits for for defamation. NBC settled for five hundred and ninety five thousand dollars CNN. Paid out two hundred thousand dollars to jewel and fifty thousand to his mum and Piedmont College where jewel previously worked as a campus cop settled for three hundred and twenty five thousand dollars however the Atlanta Journal Constitution Shen the paper that started it all dug in its heels and after a very lengthy legal battle the case against the ADC was dismissed in two thousand twelve. Also the court ruled that because the articles written by scruggs and Marts in their entirety were substantially true at the time they were published. Even though the investigator's suspicions were ultimately unfounded they cannot form the basis of a defamation action. The AJC was was not made to account for damage done to Jules reputation. You may be wondering at this point. If the actual bomber was ever caught yes he was finally arrested in two thousand and three but not before he conducted a reign of terror. Error in Atlanta and Birmingham Alabama after the Atlanta Olympics bombing. Eric Rudolph an anti government extremist also detonated bombs at two abortion clinics and a lesbian nightclub. One person was killed and twelve others were injured in those incidents following his fourth bombing at the abortion clinic in Birmingham Alabama Vigilant bystander saw a man walking away from the chaos and followed him back. Talk to his truck taking down his North Carolina license plate. Police were able to trace the vehicle back to Rudolf before they could make an arrest. Rudolph went into hiding in the dense woods of the Nantel Hall National Forest in Western North Carolina five months after his disappearance the FBI announced announced that Rudolf was also wanted in connection with this intangible park bombing as well as the other two attacks in Atlanta investigators were able to connect enact Rudolf to the bomb at the Olympics. After a man came forward to say he had sold Rudolph gunpowder at a gun show. It turned out to be the same gunpowder. Used in the pipe. Bomb at Centennial Park for five years the FBI scoured the forest with bloodhounds electronic motion detectors sectors and heat sensing helicopters. They set up listening posts with cameras and hired local scouts to trump through the woods with gritted maps. They added added Rudolf to their most wanted list. And put a million dollar price tag on his head. And that's when the bounty hunters came crashing into town determined to make a fortune off of finding Rudolph. He was finally captured though by a twenty one year old rookie cop who found him prowling behind a grocery store in the middle of the night. Rudolph pleaded guilty avoided trial and was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences plus one hundred twenty years. He has no chance for for parole at the time. He pleaded guilty. Rudolph blamed his behavior on the legalization of abortion. And on what he called aborignes sexual behavior in a rambling. Eleven page statement. He declared abortion is murder and when the regime in Washington legalized sanctioned sanctioned and legitimized this practice they forfeited their legitimacy and moral authority to govern Rudolph explained that by bombing the Olympics. He hoped to shame the United States for its actions. He stated his intent was to knock out Atlanta's power grid and shut down the Games. He never intended. I did to hurt innocent civilians after the Atlanta bombing many in the media A an expression to describe a rush to judgment they call the jewel syndrome and even though it seems like it's been universally recognize that the case of Richard Jewel was the epitome of. What can go wrong when snap judgments are made? It doesn't mean at a stopped happening. Kevin sock the reporter who covered the Atlanta bombing story for the New York. Times said the media has learned very little since nineteen ninety six in in fact he believes the Internet and social media has made it even worse. A perfect example is what happened following the Boston Marathon bombing. After the 2013 incident. The New York Post ran a front-page photo of two teenage runners under the headline bag men implying that they had something to do with the backpack bombs planted at the race they came to the public's attention after their images were scooped up import over a hundreds of online amateur sleuths on Reddit Four Chan and other Internet forums. It turned out the teens had had nothing to do with the tax reddit users also incorrectly named another young man as a possible suspect a twenty a two year old student who had been missing for about a month before the Bombing Sahil Trapattoni's family was targeted with hateful messages on social media read. It eventually apologized to the family for their ordeal. Tripathi is still missing today. Can't Alexander says it wasn't just the media. The other made mistakes during the Atlanta investigation. Law Enforcement did too and he hopes that they've learned a couple of valuable lessons from nine. Hundred Ninety. Six one is don't leak it's not countenanced by supervisors the FBI but it happened. That two is don't too much credence into behavioral. Science can be very helpful in guiding investigation and even solving crimes. But it's not Evans. It took about a year but Richard Jewel eventually did get another job. As a sheriff's deputy in a small town down south west of Atlanta then in two thousand one he got married to a woman named Dana and a few years later they settled on a twenty six acre farm arm in middle Georgia where jewel had gotten another job as a deputy every year on the anniversary of the bombing. Jewel would return to centennial entangle park and place a card and arose at the spot where Alice Hawthorne was killed. He always wished that he could have done something to save her that night. Aw sadly in August two thousand seven jewel died of a heart attack. He was forty four years old. A large contingent contingent of sheriff's Deputies and police officers from several Georgia communities attended his funeral service. The turn out would probably have meant a lot to jewel because despite everything that happened to him he died continuing to love law enforcement and his life continues to draw Interest today in fact. Clint Eastwood directed and produced a movie. This year based on the Nineteen ninety-seven Article American nightmare. The Ballad of Richard Jewel by Marie Brenner published in Vanity Fair. The film depicts the Centennial Olympic Park bombing during the nineteen ninety-six Summer Olympics in Atlanta and its aftermath. It's stars Paul Walter Houser as jewel alongside Sam Rockwell. Kathy Bates Jon Hamm and Olivia Wilde as AJC JC reporter Kathy scruggs. Thanks for joining me on this. Look at the story of Richard Jewel and the night that changed his life. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about what you heard on this episode and links to our Gas Kent Alexander and Kevin Salwen in their book the suspect an Olympic bombing the FBI the media and Richard Jewel. The man caught in the middle was a huge help in researching this episode. If you haven't already make sure to subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode and while you're there don't forget to rate and review us. It helps spread the word and get more people people define the PODCAST. We're available for free on apple. PODCAST spotify Google podcasts. And ever else you get your streaming audio and you can also tolleson at curious cast dot CA. If you're new to the show that's where you can go back and listen to some of our older episodes. If you want to reach out to me you can find me on on twitter at nine hundred ninety s history. I'm also on Instagram and facebook and you can always email me at nineties at curious cast dot. Ca That's nine zero oh asked at curious cast dot ca this show is hosted and Co written by me. Kathy can Zora and deal our producer. Sound Design and Final Production Chin is by Rob Johnston next time for more history of the ninety S.

Richard Jewel FBI Atlanta Atlanta officer Olympics Kent Alexander Jewell US Atlanta Journal Ron Martz scruggs Centennial Park CNN reporter Tom Brokaw bobby Jill Atlanta Organizing Committee
NPR News: 10-17-2019 8PM ET

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04:59 min | 10 months ago

NPR News: 10-17-2019 8PM ET

"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like a snail races other things are fast like xfinity X. by get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity Dot com restrictions apply prices closed hop today fifty seven cents a barrel to end the session at fifty three ninety three a barrel in New York I'm Jack Speer N._p._R.. News in Washington of respecting vulnerable human life human rights and particularly the protection of religious and it's called him a highly respected political leader North Carolina Republican Mark Meadows says he was heartbroken by Cummings Death Lodge Cummings was sixty eight years old stocks flavored products such as mango fruit and cucumber in September the trump administration announced plans for a national ban on flavored e cigarettes a move that many or stop their military operation against Kurdish led militias in northern Syria Turkey and the United States agree on the priority have days allowing Kurdish militias to withdraw that's according to a joint statement released after Turkish leaders met with a delegation headed by US Vice President Mike Pence communities in the region Kurdish political leader Soleil Muslim told local television that quote our people did not want this war but it is imposed on us we welcome I'm from world leaders paying to stay derail Mulvaney says the trump resort offered the facility at cost that then meant it could beat competing resorts cigarette maker Jewel announced it will suspend sales of most of its flavored products and Beers House and Aubrey reports the action comes as the company those higher today on Wall Street the Dow Up Twenty three points to twenty seven thousand twenty five the Nasdaq was up thirty two points today you're listening to NPR Traffic Mick Mulvaney says as aides were weighing various US resorts trump was the one to suggest his own property in an effort to address questions about trump profits faces more pressure to curtail sales to teens and young adults after a review of company practices led by its new. CEO Jewel says it will suspend the in price critics argued this is the very definition of self-dealing Mulvaney dismisses that we absolutely believe this is the best place to have it we're going to have it there and Victor and integrity he lived the American

Mick Mulvaney United States Cummings Death Lodge Cummings NPR Jack Speer NPR Mike Pence Jewel New York North Carolina Washington Mark Meadows Soleil Muslim Syria Vice President Beers House Jewel Aubrey
March Madness: Centennial Olympic Park Bombing

Sports Criminals

05:37 min | 5 months ago

March Madness: Centennial Olympic Park Bombing

"Welcome to the sports. Criminals March madness special everyday in March. We're counting down the top thirty one sports scandals of the past thirty one years in Nineteen ninety-six week one of the Summer Olympics in Atlanta concluded with a celebration in Centennial Park. The excitement of thousands quickly turned into chaos when a pipe bomb filled with nails exploded for more shocking sports events from history tune in right here every day to our march madness special. Listen FREE ON SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER. You get your podcast. July twenty seventh nineteen ninety-six Atlanta Georgia. The first week of the Summer Olympics had concluded and the energy in the city was buzzing at Centennial Park. Jack Mack and the heart attack jammed on stage in front of a thousand person crowd for a late night concert around one twenty a m thirty three year old Richard Jewel events security guard spotted in unattended green backpack underneath a park bench. Suspicious jewel informed the nearby agent with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Within minutes. They began ushering people away from the back then. The unthinkable happened. Welcome to sports criminals apart. Cast original this is the seventh episode in our March Madness. Special this month were counting down the top thirty one sports scandals from Nineteen Ninety to two thousand twenty. I'm corduroy and I'm Tim Johnson in today's episode. We're going back to nineteen ninety. Six and the Centennial Park bombing during the Atlanta Summer Olympics at around one am on July twenty seventh. The Atlanta police received an anonymous tip. That in thirty minutes. Ah Bomb would go off in centennial. Park roughly twenty minutes later a pipe bomb filled with nails exploded. Two people died as a result. Forty four year old Georgia Native Alice. Hawthorne was killed by shrapnel and forty year old Turkish cameraman Maala Open. Y'All suffered a fatal heart attack over one hundred more were injured when the smoke cleared in the days that followed the man that discovered the bomb. Richard Jewel was treated as a hero. Thanks TO HIS SHARP. I and quick action. He was able to prevent the explosion from taking more lives but three days after being hailed a savior jewel turned into the villain on July Thirtieth Kathy scruggs reporter for the Atlanta Journal Constitution claimed that the FBI was considering jewel a suspect. The report caused a media circus. The narrative suddenly changed in jewel was accused of planting the bomb himself so that he could be a hero. Jew was something of a loner who lived with his mother. He developed an obsession with becoming a member of law enforcement and was even arrested for impersonating cop. He bounced from one Security Guard. Gig To another and was fired. More than once for being over zealous on the job and to make matters even worse for jewel when the feds searched his house they discovered hollowed out grenades and a gun collection but in the month long investigation into jewel the FBI was unable to find any direct evidence that linked him to the bombing in October of nineteen ninety six. The Department of Justice announced that jewel was no longer a suspect as the FBI continued their hunt for the true terrorist. Three more bombings occurred in the year that followed an abortion clinic and lesbian bar near Atlanta. Retargeted as well as an abortion clinic in Birmingham Alabama similarities in the explosives linked them with Centennial Park and soon investigators had a suspect. Eric Robert Rudolph. Rudolph spent five years on the run. He was finally captured on. May Thirty first two thousand three in North Carolina while rifling through a two years later. He pleaded guilty to all four bombings. He justified the attacks. As anti abortion demonstrations Rudolph is currently spending the rest of his life in prison. Rudolph's two thousand five confession was a sigh of relief for Richard Jewel for nearly a decade. He had fought to clear his name. That was still damaged by the Media Circus. In the years that followed jewel sued various news outlets for liable. Nbc News Cnn. And The New York Post all settled with him out of court the Atlanta Journal Constitution fought. You'll for years in two thousand seven forty four year old. Richard Jewel died from medical issues relating to a recent diabetes. Diagnosis Has New York. Times Obituary. Aptly named him the hero of Atlanta attack. Thanks for listening to sports criminals March madness. We'll be back tomorrow with next year scandal. You can catch our other episodes of sports criminals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Richard Jewel Atlanta Centennial Park Eric Robert Rudolph Olympics Nineteen Ninety SPOTIFY FBI Georgia Georgia Bureau of Investigatio Media Circus Atlanta Journal Jack Mack New York diabetes Nbc Security Guard Tim Johnson Maala Open North Carolina
Writ of Mandamus | 12/19/19

Pat Gray Unleashed

1:39:09 hr | 8 months ago

Writ of Mandamus | 12/19/19

"Art Great is here on the blaze radio network a historic day yesterday. Is it a good day no It wasn't but it was. I guess is story Ya got that going for us. Yeah I fixed a faucet In one of my bathrooms at the House. They're very very historic So you hadn't ever fixed monitor before now. Fossett Fossett not without injuring myself. Not Without a flood flood. Yeah but something else happened in the world that you're referring to try to think of other than the faucet that's leading with right. Yeah Okay Cool. I just wanted to be throwing this out the faucet and then it was great because then it carried over today when I woke up and I wasn't walking through a flooded house so perfect so it worked out nicely Yeah Yeah but anyway Wait there was one other thing they're telling us in our ear saw Yeah a little impeachment situation. Apparently the president of the United added States was impeached. Okay for the third time in. US history. Oh I thought it was not the third time. Yeah Oh they wouldn't would love uh-huh yeah they'd love to but they. They voted yesterday to Democrats cited with with the Republicans. Well actually three on one count to on the other. Oh No I know where you're going with this well we'll just one. All of them voted. No one one yes on the other. Okay where did you think I was going. Oh I thought you're going to see any place special early till see Gabbard taken the big stand voting present but yeah. She voted present so there was actually there. Were actually four Democrats. They weren't completely onboard. Yeah okay which you know. At least they had bipartisanship on the part of the Republicans Democrats had none not a single republican jumped ship and voted the other way so that's That's the way it should be. I mean they should be sticking to their guns on this thing. Because he's he hasn't done anything impeachable. And this is a purely partisan sham sham. That's going on right now. But they did impeach him and they're holding onto the articles of impeachment and have not sent them to the Senate yet They want to I guess. WanNa draw this out until they think they get everything they want to get playing games. It's really pathetic. Because and the Democrats are whining the representative Earl Blumenauer. A Democrat from Oregon is saying that at a minimum there ought to be an agreement about access to witnesses rules of the game. Timing in the Senate what what are you. Are you kidding me are you. Are you serious. This should be done exactly the way. Democrats did it in the House house where they don't get anything it'll get anything out of this. Democrats get nothing just the way. Republicans got nothing in the House. Democrats Democrats should get no concessions in the Senate. What are you talking about? That is unbelievable. Yeah win the Senate and then you can control the Senate exactly exactly right exactly. There should only be witnesses that that the Republicans that Donald Trump wants to call there there. There should only be rules that suit. The Republicans think she'd do this. The exact same way. Democrats conducted themselves in the House. It kidding kidding me. At a minimum there should be agreement on witnesses. Shot up that is unbelievable. But that's the way Democrats always are. Okay they want to have a dare way and then when when the other side has the majority of the still want to have it their way and usually they do actually usually they do just as when the Republicans had the majority in the House and the Senate and they had the presidency they got nothing done absolutely nothing done on immigration nation on healthcare on spending on anything. They got nothin' done so I guess they've been spoiled that way but it really needs to stop and they think they can coerce the Senate into conducting the trial the way they want them to. No no you can't and hopefully McConnell's not gonNA play that game. I mean I don't know how it helps them to draw this thing out because the more you draw it out the Tougher it's going to be to campaign for president for Bernie Sanders Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Who have to be on the campaign trail you should want this done as quickly as possible in the Senate so that they can get back to campaigning? Yeah originally they were saying the Senate one done in five days. They could've wrapped up nicely. But okay I guess we'll wait until January now and that's assuming that Pelosi delivers the articles. Yeah even in January. I heard I've heard talk that they might wait till after Super Tuesday. Weird all right. Well go ahead. But then when the races is really getting down to the homestretch you're going to have a Senate Trial Involving Sanders and Warren and Klobuchar too. But you'll probably be done by that uh-huh yeah it was. It was a day of theatrics. That's for sure and it's madness as what it is. Yeah I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the whole game name. Yeah I mean I really really tired of the the Democrats and also tired of hearing that such a solemn doggone take that Oh oh it's like Hey `institution is we must fulfill. Actually were glad yesterday did she. She actually wore black. Yeah and account now alright now Rashida to leave wore her power red and let me show you. We have video how solemn she was walking to cast her vote everyone. I am on my way to United States House floor to impeach president trump. I'll be half of my incredible district. Thirteen districts let's do this. Let's do she's all and somber ear from ear and that one girl it featured right. It's it's really pathetic. I can't hear the word solemn or sombor anymore I just can't you know they're they're they're so excited about this. They love this. There's nothing somber or Solomon their into meaner and nothing you know that they're unbelievable. Joyful over this and their are there allies in the media. Prove that for you. The Washington Post's team at Capitol Hill. Last night there White House reporters orders went out and celebrated their drinking their toasting and they set out a tweet. Mary and Mary impeachment from the Lotto team as their toasting each other and drinking at a bar. Oh Wow nine. Thirty last night is that we're Mary impeachments. Yeah that's where democracy democracy dies in dark democracy dies and okay. Yeah Yeah Yeah. So that's great. They're all smiles. Have a good time Mariam Peach Miss and then a little while later after getting some feedback. Oh then then it's all I'm deleting deleting the tweet tonight because that's being misinterpreted by Psalm as an endorsement of some kind to be absolutely louis clear we at the post are merely glad we're getting a break for the holidays after three long months. Oh hell retreat. The group photo with a better ed or captured the affects these cocktails. where off right be misinterpreted? I hard to misinterpret Mary impeach each miss tweeting. We hate Donald Trump's guts. And then after you get some feedback. Yeah I'm deleting this week because it's being misinterpreted by some as an expression of dislike for the president to be absolutely clear expressing our love up for the country. Doing lie to me some more please. So pathetic I love how it's on us because we yeah okay. Sorry walpole because we're so crazy. We actually believed Mary. impeachments meant that they were happy about it I guess like Merry Christmas would mean you're happy about it and you're celebrating it with is when I say merry Christmas I'm being serious and solemn and right yeah right so you see that's exactly. Yeah and you're just happy for time off for more so oh insulting towards somber anytime you use the word. Sorry insulting towards health intelligence Representative Ross Vulture got up and stated all of the articles of impeachment. This guy lay them out. I've never heard of thirty seconds. Thank him enough speaker in a day. Heavy in verbal debate. I choose to use my time to numerate in detail. Okay every high crime and misdemeanor committed by the President United States. I will do so now. He's looking around the whole house. The gentleman's time expired you back so there was laid out the whole case. They're a lot every crime every misdemeanor. He barely had enough time to get get it all in their thirty second floor. Time Fun I also listen. Milano was very very I mean she was also somber. This is yeah. This is like the PEP rally the night before the the impeachment filled with solemnity though. Oh Yeah Yes yes. Somber candlelight vigil sort of event six. Yeah Yeah Oh yeah I I really not tired of fighting Donald Trump and is many many impeachable offenses and not be in tune to retire superpower. Read it we had eight years of it. So Yeah you are. You are thing you are stupid. I mean she. She is a as ignorant as it comes. Eliza Milano is as stupid as you can possibly get in an adult human being. And she's tired. I mean she's not tired of fighting trump right. She's just tired of the of his life activists tired she never got weary of Obama's lies. I did I was tired of 'em right away but But they put up with with them quite well for eight years and Somebody who's making a great case. I don't know fifteen sixteen tweets long last night out to go back and find it but it it was laying out You want an impeachable offense. Why don't you look into the? Irs Obama's irs targeting tea party groups. And going. After I mean that's it's just one of we could do this if you really not an office. masten furious oh my gosh how about Benghazi how about we just are getting started with that list. My goodness But this is this is this. National Nightmare is going to continue. I mean Pelosi is getting. Can you influenced by far left. Which is funny? To think of. Pelosi isn't the far left party. The far left Aren't telling her dragged this out. Let's let's let's make this okay all right if you want twenty twenty to continue to be defined by this impeachment stuff go for it. Because I don't think it's GonNa work out so well for you. Well it it already. Hasn't they're already upside down in the approval on on impeachment process and in these battleground states trump is surging in the polls Daring this what is supposed to be the low point of his presidency right. Okay actually helping exactly exactly. Because it's showing the Democrats for who they are. They're lying scumbags. Yup I love that. She's wearing black yesterday. That is you know because it was so solemn again and and sombre sombre and solemn well filled with solemnity solemnity. That's the word of the day there I can spell L. at I'd put it on my laptop whiteboard. It Solomon and not really. That's too simple. Yeah I can handle that Tripoli. Nine hundred thirty three ninety three Let me tell you about brickhouse nutrition if you WANNA get real nutrition in your body nutrition that helps you fight off infections and illnesses listen all that kind of stuff helps you with your digestion. Did hit boost your immunity your immune system using antioxidants probiotics six. It's real food. It's not extracted just one scoop of field of Greens has a full serving of real. USDA organic fruits and vegetables so go to breakouts house Pat Dot Com and get fifteen percent off your first order when you use the offer Code Pat. They're so confident that you're gonNA love this product They'll give you your money back. If you don't so go to Brickhousechad PAT DOT COM get fifteen percent of your first order with the offer Code Pat brickhouse else Pat Dot com gray unleashed. I love this tweet from ransacked allowed. You would've thought that trump was giving Ukraine pallets full of cash. Ah Nice here's another one. Another one Iran and what Obama did with them was that one hundred fifty billion was born in fifty billion dollars. You WanNa talk about thirty presidency. Oh yeah they'll talk to me but he claims there was that was completely scandal free. They didn't have any problem in in his administration. It was absolutely scandal-free was a perfect administration. So so I can't and we say any is but they say trump is a narcissist. I mean Jeez Barack Barack Obama was yeah and he was even worse about it because he pretended not to be. Trump doesn't even pretend it doesn't he doesn't pretend triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three and pat unleashed on twitter. And he's just the one kind of maybe staying on the day for president trump these rallies. Sometimes he gets a little carried away and that was the case last night. I think in Michigan when he went down this Debbie Dingle. That's a real beauty so she calls me up eight months ago husband. was there a long time. But I didn't give him the beet treatment I didn't give him the C or the D. I could've you're nobody whereas you know I gave the stripper. Take down the flags. She calls me up. It's the nicest thing that's ever happened. Thank you so much. Join would be so thrilled. He's looking down. He thank you so much sir. I said that's okay. Don't worry about it maybe looking out now while I don't understand why you you would do that. That serves no purpose that at all to say that John Dingell might be in hell. Oh my goodness. That's indefensible comment. It is a what are you doing. I don't know and there was no reason to go after Debbie Dingle. They're right there and she complimented. She thanked him. Yes expressed gratitude. And he mocked her mocked her. So that's unfortunate and it's it's those kinds of things that that you know gives the left. Just ammunition yeah have decency and. I just wish he wouldn't do that. It would be really really nice if he didn't be a lot easier to defend him if you didn't do stuff like that that's that that was indecent and that was immature and uncalled for. Yeah that's my Gosh on a day like you said where you're winning. Then the night capper is you insinuating the widows and Hell and his widow you mock Kamakura coming to you and thanking you like she was monitoring thanking him. Yes it's why she was Maha. Okay Yes oh boy really strange so it is those things that you don't put behind the eight ball and I hate that you know she wouldn't do that. Is What we call unforced errors in sports. Yeah definitely and they'll be defending that. Oh yeah he'll be. People defending it was actually pretty good crowd. There didn't see a mixed reaction. Yeah the side of yes. What are you doing here? Well my goodness yeah. Fortunately there wasn't wild applause and laughter. Yeah and we're going to hear the we're going to hear more about this clip for a while. I believe I think that's GonNa turn into something. Just probably yeah. Yeah probably all righty like I said on a day. We're on a day saying where he won where you were impeached yet. You were winning somehow and then you cap it off with mocking a widow. Thank you and insinuating that her husband was looking coming up from Hell is twenty nineteen. Lots show was yesterday so bad and so I don't know why I mean here. She is saying Nice things right. Cut Thanking you expressing gratitude. And you mock her for that Christmas. Yeah I mean. Christmas is a Christmas Day. Now you know when. Is it coming now six days because it seems like it's been coming fast and now all of a sudden it feels like it's taking forever. I why don't we please. That was insane. Come on man. Also a the judge is blasting the FBI another win for the president here. Judges blast in the FBI for misleading the FISA vice accords on the surveillance of trump and his campaign. It's not enough to just blast them something should they. They shouldn't get some consequences from this but the court did approved the surveillance of former trump campaign advisor. Carter order page accused F. B. I.. Agents of creating a misleading impression about their bias for requesting a warrant and ordered the bureau to overhaul its process assess in a blistering order a judge on the foreign intelligence surveillance. Pfizer court accused the bureau of providing false information and withholding materials. That would have undercut. Its four surveillance applications. Now when I went to the FISA court they implied and they were rejected. Yep So then they added. Then there's the steele dossier on trump and the you know the golden shower thing and some hotel room in Moscow or whatever that was and it was a totally made up lie and they added that to it claiming that was real to look judge. We got to look into this stuff. Yeah I I guess you do was not real. It was a bunch of garbage so now the Pfizer court realize realize. They've been duped and they were lied to. And now they're a little pissed. The handling of the Carter Page applications portrayed in the report was antithetical to the heightened duty of candor described above Rosemary Collier presiding judge wrote judge gave the FBI until January worry tenth to provide the court with a sworn statement detailing how it plans to overhaul. Its approach to future surveillance applications so no consequence. Yeah big big deal big deal. Judge also noted. The report cited several instances in which the FBI sought to persuade the court that probable cause existed to believe leave page was a Russian agent but nonetheless withheld information in their possession which was detrimental to their case. Wow that sounds familiar this week. Wow so carter. Page was Russian agent. Donald trump was a Russian agent. Yeah everybody's Russian agent. Now Yeah and and this is the same wasn't the FBI you had the Lori Loughlin story where they're apparently holding back information eight Things that are really that's bad for the FBI. And that's the whole basis of this Richard Jewel stuff right that they were fabricating gating stuff about his character your government at work. Don't you feel safer tonight. Look really bad in the Richard Jewel. Who really bad? Who Do you trust man? Richard Jewell movie looks like like they were just railroading a completely innocent man. They knew reason they knew all time they knew it the whole and they admitted that they know it might move watch. That's testimony from and what over twenty years ago Richard Jewel. I mean it's about the Department of Justice I mean that's bad. Poor guy was just a gung Ho law enforcement. I WanNa be he was pulled. Blurt me raise your Lard. They framed Pall Mall mock-up and now he's no longer with us to defend himself. Yeah Oh my goodness but neither is the The Washington Post reporter Assurance Will Atlanta Journal. Yeah Wash People's yeah. They said that she was making it with an FBI agent and the AJC says no absolutely not no. Yeah strongly implied. They don't show them sure they're doing anything but it is strongly implied that they slept together. It is it. Christmas yet is not because it's been like a good five minutes. I know I know it feels like it should not by the way. The Guy who doc plays Richard Jewel in the movie looks exactly like Richard Jewel Thinking Richard Jewel actually playing himself. I thought you were going to say Paul blurt no. Nobody does look like but both of them look like Paul blurt too. So I mean the Richard Jewel Guy. Rea- looks like him really. He looks like and I. GotTa see the Centennial Park. Just a few hours carrying down there right before the bomb went off at the Olympics. Were you really. Yeah and see. We got tickets tickets to because we just wanted to say we went to the Olympics. Yeah so we got tickets to see team. USA playing field hockey. It was like the cheapest ticket eight bucks to get in which by the way that stadium. mm-hmm the Atlanta built for field hockey is now overrun with Kudzu vines. And no one uses it anymore. But I digress but so we got there early early India versus Pakistan. Now that's my favorite matchup. You'll talk at the time not knowing anything about the geopolitical stuff going on there between Kashmir and India and Pakistan. We just sat right in the middle. We were literally Kashmir during this game with Pakistan on one side in India fans on the other side screaming screaming at each other like you would have thought they were about to have a war right there in the game ended of course in a zero zero tie of course but my point is the USA. The game was right after. And if we'd stayed for that we fully intended to we would have been bomb. went off absolutely. Yeah so we went to that game and I fully fully remember the him being a hero. Yeah and then what three days later or five days a week maybe at the most. He's the he's the guy who did it. He's the bad guy in this thing and then that lasted for months and then Okay No. It wasn't him all right. Yeah it was this Eric. Rudolph Guy Never Mind Go back about your business. Yeah nothing to see here move along and I really. That's all you're going to do this. Poor guy this Joel. That's been persecuted for four months. Now Yeah a sad story really sad ed Smith said yeah and I mean I specifically remember that bench that that that spot where the bomb went off seeing that that day. Well it's just creepy to think it is something could have been you know but took people died I think and yeah it was a hundred injured. Yeah I remember a lady died. I remember Reporter died of a heart attack running to the scene to try to cover it But Yeah Lost all of this Eric Rudolph That that that guy living in the mountains on the run until he was Caught Getting What food out of a dumpster? Some restaurant but Yeah that's just a terrible time and and and the fallout from that. Like you said I mean who knows who knows what this did to Richard through Jules life as far as right how long he would have lived if not this stress in all this that he went through and Oh by the way his attorney while we're talking about this. Oh Yeah Lynnwood he. He tweeted out about this. Nancy Pelosi delaying this This articles of impeachment government delivering. He said that trump must immediately seek writ of Mandela's from the US Supreme Court which would order the articles to be delivered waking dream court involved in this now. Well the Supreme Court will be involved in some way because John Roberts will be the he'll be he's the master services right. That's right that's right. Enquist was Clinton right overseas it. He oversees the trial itself. Just in this stop. I know you should do the rid of. Yeah the Manby is man this man men Damas and Christmas yes chicken just update on that AAA nine hundred thirty three ninety three more more pat gray unleashed coming up nine hundred thirty three ninety-three pat unleashed on twitter. More Tyler Morgan tweets. Are you sure we shoot it to lead wasn't wearing a suit sir. Sylvia read no probably was so wasn't power so nice Steve Forty to remember when we said. Just stop the world. I I think we should just stop the whole solar system. I want out. Yeah thank you. Push up corn pop. push-up corn pop alumni alumni alumnae next one keep You would've thought that trump was giving Ukraine pallets full of cash. Yeah also loan will twenty nine sixty five how many of those same celebrants slowly devolve into tears today. As he tried to come to terms with why is he still there. He was being. You know a lot of Um think he's gone he's gone. Is Nancy Pool President. Yeah no not yet. Pumpkin seeds eighty four happy inauguration day Hillary Clinton Antoni adds anything. That's what they're waking up thinking. Okay Hillary President Dope not just yet just to muck and futch of course trump trump should be impeached for setting terrorists free in exchange for a deserter. Oh wait that's unbelievable away. Another Obama see on there. I why Santa's murderous tweets. Thanks for the movie spoiler. Keith what I what did I spoil like. I don't know was it. The was it. The you didn't know Richard Jewell. We'll see twenty three years ago. Look at your right. They nailed that side by side looking good job and how much it looks like actor with. Yeah and the guy was great. Guy was great man so yes sorry. I ruined it for Oy. A bongos off. Richard Jewell did not do it. Slaying Duck so you guys go directly from criticizing trump for implying the widows was inhale too saying that deceased hero. Richard Jewel was just like Paul. BLURT nice of PLO blurt was a hero. Yeah Poplar was a nice guy that was a hero. And what do you mean Nice Guy who was enthused. News about law enforcer. Exactly right we're not bashing chose not being bashed whatsoever on this five. Obviously there are people who can't stand one negative comment about Donald Trump. Nothing nothing said that's not a just glorifying. Donald Trump. Yeah so I'm sorry to say the show for you if that's you because we don't glorify everything he says if you're GONNA call it like we see it when we agree with them. We say so when we don't we also say so. I don't agree with everything he does. And I will not change my my values and my principles to fit. Donald Trump never will say that spending deficits don't matter that that spending us into oblivion doesn't matter like he's doing right now and just say. Oh that's okay are we've completely forget about that particular issue of conservatism. So if that's what you want to hear then you gotta listen to Hannity. That's not us. Yeah I mean we. Praise president trump when he earns praise which is quite often right. That's right but with you're going to mock oh widow. Who came to thank you for something and say that her husband might be in the hell come on? Now we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA cut you gotta you gotTa be criticized for that. That's unbelievable it's unbelievable. Hey is it Christmas yet will get an update on that man Also from the tecmo hero sent us this helpful bathroom assigned for twenty nine thousand nine hundred and it's there is a picture of the woman bathroom. Sign the man. You got the half off man half woman and then you've got a wheelchair person here. The Baby Alien Alien. Oh look a Siamese twin headed person some warrior thing whatever. Just wash your hands. Yeah just wash your hands. Oh that reminds me so. Yesterday we had the bread. You Wash hands you touch the bread. Yes and then there's another piece of bread where you wiped it on like a chromebook or whatever and then after a week or whatever you looked and you saw oh my gosh better. Wash your hands because look what you transfer We're GONNA do this today on twitter at Pat unleashed. Be Sure to look for that. We're going to do this experiment. Hang on look at this I actually I brought on. I brought my supplies here. I've got bread that I mean ain't nobody else gonNA bread so whatever it's already expired And then we got ziplock bags. WE'RE GONNA experiment. We should get Jeffey in here. Just have the one that Jeffy touches and see what it looks like after Christmas break. But we're GONNA leave it in a drawer all these pieces of bread so be sure to check out at Pat unleashed on twitter today. All right from GS Lamp to what makes what makes American Indians. Indians native is that they came from Asia and had kids here. My ancestors came from Europe and had kids here are native. I Yeah I like that too or is the left racist believing skin color makes you native. Not where you were born Jeffy might say Think about it first of all first of all I love that. We're absolutely the same thing. It's just a matter of timing right. Yes okay. Yes I'm also looking for the writ of men and Damis or rid of Mendham mandanas today. I don't know maybe a a lawyer can call us and tell us how you pronounce that and also is that is. Is that something that would work. Because supposedly a rid of Mandela's is an order from a court to an inferior government official chill ordering that government official to properly fulfil their official duties more corrected abusive discretion. So it would be an order from the court to Nancy. Pelosi telling her you've got to deliver the articles of impeachment. I I don't know if that's actually Shauwie if that would actually work if she would actually abide by that have to abide by that. Maybe there is a lawyer that could let us know about that. That sounds pretty good because if if if they can do it they should be doing that right now. They should I mean and if some of our listeners know about it surely hopefully the president of the United States knows about it right and the Senate knows about it right so let's force the issue. Twenty nineteen was fun. Oh aw just you wait to to get some things of its sleeve. It's going to be a nightmare. Yeah and there's an election saw. I used to be really fun eventually. One of these buffoons. That are running in the Democrat Party is going to go up against Donald Trump and that is going to be showtime when that happens because he's going to take him apart. Whoever it is it doesn't matter who it is the only only one that might be problematic because you gotta be really careful because he comes with a Lotta protection is is Buddha judge? Be Buddha judge. Yeah you can play the White Guy Angle right yes you can go on and look for that I almost said Chink in the armor but there it is okay. We're always. He's a white guy. He's a white guy a white man and that's part of what pisses the left off about him. I feel so good enough that that he's gay. He's a white man. Yeah and they're really mad about that. Plus he's moderated some of his Policies Unlike Sanders and Warren. And they're upset about about that too. He just thinks the Medicare for all should be for all who want it so she you could have your insurance and keep keep it or if you WanNa go Medicare then you could do that too. And they're not happy about that at the left like choice. Yeah no the only like the choice of murdering babies. They want want to be able to choose to murder babies. But they don't want you to be able to choose your healthcare. Come on Keith. Grow up man the Christmas yet. No it is not and it's not going to be so we have on the debate stage tonight that I'm not going to be watching. I'm not watching that thing at all. We've already decided right. Eight hundred twenty. Yeah we're not. We're not messing without seeing. So we've got Biden. Okay Warren Sanderson Person. Buddha Judge Globus Shar steer somehow made it how. How did Tom Steiner? Make the debate and not tolsey. No nope tells Chelsea's not in this and they're pissed at her to for not voting. Yes to articles of impeachment yesterday. President Andrew Gang Enter Yang makes the stage enter Yang Yang inspire big surprises to me whipped cream. And all all right cool. Well that'll be fun tonight. I mean for me debate in. Nobody watches did they. They actually do what I don't know but I guess we're GONNA find a find out tonight in case you want to torture yourself. The debate starts to eight. PM Eastern. Don't ask me what network don't care nor do I care. It's in Los Angeles. I know that let's see I didn't know that much. I knew that I did not know. Let's see here and it's going to be on a channel. That's not quickly disclosing the article article. So therefore I'm leaving you on your own goal. Good luck finding it Let's see see. PBS PBS and CNN. Oh we'll twice the options to not watch. CNN has had several Louise Right. I mean yeah and I guess it'd be rewarded for being say. Why would they get rewarded for Bates for the boy? They are two they are and they're playing their plan. The exact right game game for the Democrats I yesterday or a few days ago. After after one of Pelosi's first days when she was talking about what a solemn Sombor occasion it was which you made the first announcement that they were going to bring articles of impeachment and it was so Solomon they get no they got. No pleasure Out of this at all. It was just a solemn somber occasion. And so when she's done she wraps up and they go back to the hosts on CNN. They talked about you know it was the most striking there was what a solemn somber occasion it is for her for these Democrats they take no pleasure and In bringing these articles of impeachment. Oh okay shut up. You don't really expect us to buy that do you. You do don't you really by that. It's unbelievable it's it's really unbelievable. All right triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three also We found out that the sports person of the year we. Yeah we found out who she wants or I don't know if that's a personal pronoun it never would they want or I don't know here's the person what candidates intriguing I mean I think I think Warren hairs ticket with fire. Two Super Smart Sharp for smirke women who don't back down to anyone I think there are Have big bowls or progressive policies especially warning to think harrises. Were quite as flushed out. Maybe they needs to be judged her way partner than pretending anyone else so that that's interesting. Obviously you know Bernie especially with younger people. I'm he's he's like on fire and it has been for a long time are part of the progressive wing of the democratic. Think dislike walking talking of a moderate line. Really get us anywhere. I think that is trying to play this game. With trump of being electable. And you know no not being to Pharma. But when it's really I think we know that these radical policies could could change the world for the better so why not go all in on that. Why not? Why not just be socialist That Socialist leader Socialist Nation. I'm Megan rapid warrant similar. Look going on there. Well Superstore for one of them whatever. It is a really good look. Yeah but one of them drinks beer which is fun. Super Smart. Sharp that's That's Warren Harris Twenty twenty super smart sharp according to Meghan revenue okay. Why don't you just play soccer? That would be great. Wouldn't it be nice played soccer and segue. That's a great segue into an animal video. An animal that was plans. Oh yeah there. Was this fear. Reindeer look at those reindeer playing soccer pat. He's playing soccer and Handy Andy Scores and then he celebrates skits out of control with a celebration. They're kind of like Meghan. Does seem to celebrate burst into the goal absolutely does that was shut again. Fun here's a reindeer budding. The soccer ball with his head Antler's and then put it in the goal and jumps around. I think what he's thinking about doing there. He didn't really elongate eight the celebration though I don't think he would have penalised. He wouldn't have been penalized. Here's what happened. I do believe He was getting ready to take off and fly and then he saw the camera and he realized Santa's Ooh like you can never be seen flying outside Christmas Eve. Okay and so we pull back just a little maybe last minute there. Maybe that was good. Well we'll post that later on. Pat unleashed that you can see that on twitter. Weirdest thing new okay. Put it in the goal and and then he celebrated his goal awesome. And if and if you would've liked to seen that in real time you could go to blaze. TV Dot com slash Pat Offer Code Pat. Twenty off save yourself. Twenty dollars on a yearly subscription to blaze. TV to see fun animal videos on the rare occasion that pulls the trigger right there. You go look this up on the screen they're like if you look at you currently have blaze. TV and you need to write this down to give it to somebody who doesn't or that'd it'd be a great Christmas gift. This is a good offer until Christmas. Get on it blaze. TV DOT COM SLASH PAT. Also since we're onto a sort of just entertainment things. How about this frazier clear bag yours? Kelsey grammer frazier. What shelly nineties? Yeah so it's pretty this show but it's not pre is it pre Houston show because that's where we avenue is. Yeah that's where we stumbled upon the Quantel X.. Quote which I think is originally came from put. I'll come back. You want to set it up. Yeah yeah this is Cornell ex from Houston. Days can give birth to kittens in oven deck. Don't make them biscuits. Okay Quantel XS local black leader and like Malcolm X. Type in fact his heroes Malcolm X.. And so he would speak out on issues once on my show. This is what he had to say can give birth to kittens in oven that don't make them biscuits genius and she. We didn't know what the amid then we don't know what it means now although there is speculation that the original quote was from Malcolm X.. And he was talking about illegal immigrants who give birth earth in this country and does that make them citizens no because a cat can give birth goes in the oven that don't make them biscuits gets an illegal gives birth to a person in the United States. That doesn't make him. That's the thought. Anyway I don't don't know if that's true but clear back on frazier. Take here's what he said in the oven. It shocked because he's quoting is God. Go on quoting incredibily so apparently I never knew this but frazier. His GRANDPA is Cornell. Alex gave me. I Guess Gully Willie. I don't know why so the excellent I don't know I don't know. Yeah that's interesting. Thank you for this to shelly. That's incredible I had no idea that that was spoken on Frazier. We gotta find out. What Year Frazier in? We need to look into that. Okay see if they stole it from us in triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three here and pat unleashed on twitter. C Ran Ninety. Three 'til was it into two thousand one eleven seasons. Don't make me do the math here. Oh two thousand four yes okay. Okay I don't know what we'll find out when that episode Dan. You're that you're gonNA find out they didn't steal it from GRANDPA Willie kilogram program. You're busted. They stole it from Pat Gray show and Kwan. LX On the PAT gray show. Of course they did sort of thousand one Houston Texas. Yeah yeah that was summer of Owen Allah right before I moved away so that would have been August of a one that he said that when he came in with his big posse and he's going to debate somebody who decided not to show up that day that's right so we just interviewed him and he just sat in his car on the. The phone is GonNa Michael Berry Right. Yes he was. Put it all the table. Who is at the time a Houston Council person? Yeah Yeah Yeah now talk show host triple eight nine hundred thirty. Three Ninety three added Pat unleashed on twitter yet. About in fact now just a fact he was GONNA v Michael Berry is he was worried about his safety or something. Something Yeah and said you know well safer in my car on the phone memories. He's like the quarters of our mind. Misty Watercolor Memories. The way things were triple eight nine hundred thirty thirty three thousand three more pet grand least coming up happened. Then what did they say small three sizes that stay gray unleashed president impeached. Yesterday to Democrats voted against both counts. One of those Democrats. Kratz is Andrew. What's his face man drew? He's GonNa be come a Republican but was a democrat. I believe yesterday so so to the Democrats so it was a bipartisan effort against impeachment. It's more than the Democrats can say. In fact four Democrats win against the the flow. The Party line because Tulsi Gabbard voted present on both counts. It's and the other one then. There was one Democrat who voted for one of the articles but not the other so there was obstruction in of Congress voted or abuse of power against obstruction of Congress. And then of course of course Tolsey Tulsi TULCEA civilian at present So she's there and not in Los Angeles for that debate tonight. She didn't make the she didn't make the debate. That's too bad uh-huh that's too bad. So now Nancy Pelosi hanging onto the articles of impeachment has not sent them to the Senate yet and may not for. Who knows how long we're hearing that? There's a rid of monogamous that you can maybe forced the issue and if that's true. I hope they do it. I haven't heard heard from a lawyer on that but somebody told us. Was it a tweet tweet from Richard Gills attorney Lin Wood. I made that point that you could Have the Supreme Court Order of the articles to be delivered. That'd be great through that Latin appraisement. So let's get that done. Let's just get this thing over with. I mean 'cause they're not going you. They're not going to the Republicans aren't going to do a big fat trial they don't want to now because there's too much risk involved so whatever let's get it done and just get him acquitted and then we can move on with our lives and I would think that Democrats would want that too because you've got three senators who are Democrats that will be tied up in a trial if you if you draw this thing out when they're supposed supposed to be campaigning. I don't see how they can want that but we'll see what happens. Also Tonight Star Wars. Yeah yeah the rise of skywalker. It's theaters I saw that. That showtimes are as early as six o'clock. It used to be you know. They did the midnight showing then it went to eleven ten o'clock and now it's six o'clock so now just basically opens on Thursday instead of Friday but tonight's is the big night that star wars rise of skywalker finishes off the whole series of star wars movies. And Yeah I guess they're GONNA do. They'll still do some. I don't know if they're going to do solo. Or you know Ray. Whoever she is do some Soda off-shoot on her? I don't know we don't know what the next one is the next one somebody might. I don't now what when you're GONNA go see this new movie. I I don't know I'd like to see tomorrow but I bet it's all sold out already and I haven't purchased tickets so I got my tickets. Yeah for win. I next August seriously. You don't have tickets tickets for ten days out from ten days like oh well yeah And when I bought them there was nobody in that nobody had the whole theater was. Oh yeah so. We're going to go see similar thirtieth. I understand it's not getting great reviews. Worst reviewed a Volvo. I'm seeing that too. Does it matter. They'll because it really doesn't to be. I still go if it had a zero rating. Yeah me too. You know. There's something about Star Wars. It's the only great movies in the series where the first three right the seventy seven one thousand nine hundred eighty one thousand nine hundred eighty three great absolutely yep but still even after all the abuse you've never the crappy eight movies we just saw still still got to go see the ninth. I'm still going to me to saw. Doesn't matter just created much goodwill with the first three. It's an amazing to me. That's amazing that Lucas did such a good job with the first three. It didn't matter what they put us through in the next eight. It didn't matter we still I love him and we still eagerly anticipate them And we've been disappointed time after time after time after time you know what are you describing the star wars franchise or are you describing radiohead. Because their first three albums so great and then It's Star Wars since they've gone experimental but no I'm with you. I'm not I am not a star Wars Geek by any stretch of imagination. But I make sure to go and watch time in the theater every wait for oh no this ten days out thing. I'll have you know. This is probably the longest I waited. It's just because of scheduling things or whatever but when when the new one comes out. I'm there absolutely yep me too. So and men delorean. Yeah I mean that's not that great. Oh was it. Fried instill eagerly anticipating every episode of that. Yeah when you said that my Pavlov's dog respond with dealing week is the Marlboro tomorrow. We get another man delorean. Just been on all of them and I will say that one night I was awake all night from Thursday into Friday and I just happened to think right at three. Am I was thinking you know. Hey what if it's already Friday. Maybe I don't know how long it had been up but it was up at three. Am Oh well. Oh Rob just tells me that really. The new episode has already dropped for the week. What wait a minute really yesterday? What are they doing? Why are they telling us? Did they really so will there you go. They dropped yesterday. Probably because of the didn't want to compete with the movie. Nice makes that makes sense to to do that. A little bit early to get that out of the way. Then you're only anticipating the movie all right so an order doing it one hour they get home. I'm watching awesome. Good okay okay. So they expected to make anywhere from about one hundred and sixty million to two hundred and thirty million which is quite a. It's a pretty big range right there but That's a C forty that's a seventy million dollar range enj- but it's GonNa make a lot of money. We'll know it could be one of the top five debuts of all time we'll see but the really great news that everybody's talking about in the new star. Wars movie is that it finally features a gay kiss. Oh no no no now. What finally Good they finally made Star Wars. same-sex history thank you I. We've all been clamoring to have a gay or lesbian kiss in Star Wars L.. Now in the rise of skywalker. My kids almost escape gape childhood before Star Wars did this nip but not quite. Don't you have twelve year. Olds are so. Yeah yeah sure. I don't even time for them. Any way to understand the real issues of sexual sequence in the new film sees to lesser known female members of the resistance. Enjoy a kiss to celebrate. During a joyful moment the affectionate scene is the first of its kind to depict a homosexual sign of romance manse in a Disney owned film row wall to be so happy about. That wouldn't won't be proud right. Yeah too bad. He's not here to see that because he would love it you you know what would love it. They he'd be saying finally they gotTa Gate Kiss and one of my movies. Thank you finally. It'd be you. He'd be spinning like a lay that his grave. He would not want that well he be spending because he couldn't get comfortable his grave. Has It took so long. Yeah again I didn't know what took so long boy here. We are yeah dizzy so woke yeah. They're woke so you know people tweeting about it. Why not also in movies like Star Wars or wonder woman waited this is star wars stupid They wanted in wonder woman and all the I guess all the all the Disney movies I guess every single movie has to have lesbian kisses or gay kisses in it. I guess another added. Am I right in thinking the rise of skywalker featured the first same sex kiss in Star Wars if so bravo. Why why why does it have to be in a star wars movie? Y You know. It's essentially a kids movie movie. Why why do we need that? Speaking to variety on the issue J.J. Abrams hinted at the moment and said In the case of the LGBTQ A two plus community. He didn't use all the all the letters. But you know I just out of respect for every single group that represents sure does it was important to me that people who go oh to this movie feel they're being represented in the film. Well okay. That's great but why didn't you also include a polygamist race relationship in it then because what about the polygamous exclusion. Why exclude polygamous are? You are you saying that their love is less important because it involves more than one person. Listen if not if not if you can't do a polygamous relationship in the why why not did you feature someone who pleasures themselves yourselves. Do we get to see that in a star wars movie if not why not. Why why are they represented? What about consenting adults who fall in love with a relative relative what about that? Isn't that important for them to see that they've been represented in a film as well. Jj why aren't all all characters in all movies. Gay Why we. Why are we seeing? Every single character represented as a gay person in this. Why Zun we will be so? We won't questioning soon. Man I mean this has gotten so ridiculous so carried away triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety-three also at PAT unleashed on twitter. Where Christmas twisted pat had 'em tweets so are there measures in place to ensure Jeffey doesn't eat your science experiment all the bread that we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA you're gonNA touch the bread? Yeah we need to put a lock on that so he doesn't eat it from Kubilius prager university needs to go and ask the students now. That president trump has been impeached. WHO's the President President now? I'd like to solve. That would be fun. That would be It would be a bet that will happen. Zakian round a Christmas tree tweets so I could watch to train wrecks tonight. Debated APM or Star Wars. No Boy Oh my rance out loud. Does this make Kelsey. Grammer Frazier X.. Kills Kelsey grammer actually said a cat can have kittens in in the oven. That don't make them biscuits before before before Quanta. LX said it on my show in Houston in two thousand one so l. said this can give birth to kittens beaten up and don't make them biscuits so did Quantel X.. Get that expression from frazier. That's what I like to know. I I think he might have. Can we kick these biscuits. You got it from him. I'll bet you are quoting so grandpa Willie passed it on to frazier crane and passed it on onto quad. LX In Houston which is great. That is that is awesome. I now firmly believe because that happened in two thousand that episode was in two thousand. I interviewed Cornell in two thousand one. Yep I think Cornell got it from frazier I think he got to be clear. They'd Cuanto Alexis hero is is it Malcolm X.. No crane crane that is awesome white guy a conservative great job had eh that test and shelly. Thanks for sending us that awesome clip from Amy Diane. I've been watching frazier. Nineteen Ninety three to two thousand four on Netflix for the past month an season ten and joked about him being a republican. Now we get it. Frazier was simply against illegal immigration queue also from USA Les Essais News. Who knows maybe a cat does give birth begins in the oven? Anyone ever check right so we're just assuming here biscuits could be biscuits at the Katz giving birth to we. Don't I don't know I've never I not. I have not checked after a cat's given birth earth oven. I haven't looked. I really have not looked so. I'll have to do that sometime kick. I don't have a cat when I wonder if any time in history has actually ever given birth inside an oven. No they don't know what a dump cat crawl in there. You're dumb all all right in America. Lots of US deal with pain and it's continual it's like every day it's all the time. Sometimes you wake up with it it just. It's it's awful. And and if you've tried everything and you still have that pain and you think it might be inflammation based you need to try. Relief factor. Relief factor is one hundred percent drug-free. So you're not gonNA get hooked on anything and then have to depend on the doctor and call a doctor go through all all that hassle all the time and then you know people look at you like. You're you're a drug addict when you come in to get your bills at its. It's awful to one hundred percent drug-free created created by doctors with four key ingredients that each help fight against inflammation. And there's a three week quickstart. It's just one thousand. Nine hundred five tried for three weeks if it works great eight. Then you'll be like seventy percent of the people who try who start with the quickstart and go on to order more because it did work for them. If you'd like drug free natural way the ease your pain and get your life back go to relieffactor dot com their word in the same country shepherds abiding in the field keeping watch over their flocks by night low the angel of the Lord can pawn them the glory Wrong about them. They were sore afraid rain and the angel said to them. Fear Not for behold levering your dining for great joy to keep Koranteng. You is born this day. The city of David a savior. Christ Laurie. She'll be a sign onto. You should find the way swatting lying conveyed. Suddenly a multitude of the heavenly host praising God glory garden highest there is peace billboard. That's Christmas follow up. Charlie Brown Green unleashed Privilege a personal one of personal privilege. Okay listen please do not use gender language to to address everyone everyone okay. Good Yeah thank you. Okay okay all right good by the way tomorrow will feature our favorite clips mostly from two thousand nineteen but we. I think we could probably go back to you know as many as years as we want. Okay all right. I mean you're have been able to catering exactly what we want right. Twenty nineteen but it doesn't absolutely have to be but best clips if a lot of people are talking about but I think gender doin right this one point far away is it. Please use language to address. Everyone's okay all right. Okay thank you for that thank you. I think you know some people on the left are just starting to realize the atmosphere created here and are starting to realize. Wait a minute. People are expecting us to do that to wait. That was just for the right. That's not for us. We're the elites. We don't have to do that. Yeah Yeah you do so. Good luck with that. Triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety-three Nick in Illinois you're on the blaze. A point of personal privilege. Yes go ahead please stop up trashing the Prequel of Star Wars prequels really. You'd like to one two and three movies phantom menace and the other phantom menace attack of the clones and run to the city. I do not. I actually despise are episode seven eight and I I haven't seen yet but I don't plan on it. Yeah eight was especially bad the the last Jedi or whatever that is that was especially awful. All right. Yeah it's garbage bridge but did I hear you use the word love for Phantom menace and clones. Wow my favorite one of all stopping. Stop it with Georgia pinks. Come on Nick. I know any more or less annoying than CHEWBACCA. Oh my gosh. He's a billion times more annoying than shoebox. My goodness well she could live at my house. I love him so much. More than Anjar Jar binks jar big. I WANNA lop his head off with a lightsaber from the second appears on screening. Take me a really well. That's your younger. How old were you when you saw? How old were you when you saw that? That is the underlying or we we go. Yeah I was five weighing Ding Ding Ding Ding. Okay you've lost all credibility to make okay when you're five of favorite movie second. Hold on hold on in in those the trilogy's around when you were really young. The transformation information it just seemed like Anna can get really set off a little too easily become evil Lord darth vader like. I WANNA be a jet I now know. Yeah Oh yes he was cry. Baby crying died in his arms arm. And how about the acting. But in in Phantom menace the little kid is maybe the worst actor ever in a major your motion picture. Maybe the worst of all time. I agree with that either. He was but he wasn't the worst. How goodness you need to go back in one? When was the last time you saw it? Five three three days ago this weekend three days ago. Wow okay. Well you're tainted from your five year old Casa uh-huh and that's understandable. It is understandable. Thanks Nick appreciate. It does show you though when you grew up with it. They're going to have a much a different experience than when I saw it at thirty five or however old I was at the time phantom menace. Oh okay yeah menace came out at. I don't know two thousand eight hundred nine nine. Yeah okay so I was. I was barely out of diapers myself. But I was a little older than I'm nick. And you were thirty thirty and kinney was five. You just Nix Dad diapers as really. I'm sad I'm now. I know I'm not so much as Going after Nick. I'm just trying to figure out why you were still in diapers at thirty four. No I said I was out. Just got yeah Dream this in Mandal Laurean was what was I seeing recently where they took a swipe at Georgia or his did they. What was I watching recently where I thought? Oh that's kind of call. They slip that in there and they were making fun of his people. What was that Laurean? What was it the guns gun get in? I don't know but it was the people who lived in the lake by the people people who lived somewhere else. The land people in the water. People didn't get along in that one. And by the way J.J. Abrams he direct this latest one. Okay all right sir. Sir J J Abrams. Since I know you're a big fan of Pat Gray unleashed and you watch every morning when you were first assigned this role to direct these movies. I thought you mentioned something I know you mentioned it and it hasn't paid off yet You you told us you would put the the bones of jar jar in a desert third scene so that as the camera and see the bones of jar jar see the bones are maybe this one better her payoffs or yeah. I'd like that. I don't know I also heard him say it's not his job to correct what happened to the movies. That when he wasn't directing So he's not going to try to fix anything. And maybe that includes Georgia banks. I don't know we'll see I actually love the Wookey wookey. I haven't heard him him talking about an unpopular opinion. Yeah I've never seen anybody who said. Yeah that walkies gotta go man Comic Relief. I've never heard of that it. I mean you're talking about Chewbacca. Yeah who who is funny strong mart. Right unharmful shave but other I mean seriously what is there not to like about. He's a faithful companion. Yes Tuhan and the emotion did he. Well I better not say 'cause you need to catch up on some of the movies please come on. You've had plenty of time okay. So the emotionally shows when he loses someone really close to him Ah I mean that's a great character. Everybody knows Hans Solo dead now. I mean we pretty clear that it's been what three years years two years since that came out. So if you're not caught up on that Oh yeah. A little spoiler spoiler alert over here. You got sliced in half by his son and died. Okay so you really can. I learn art but after that movie Harrison Ford signed the deal to do more movies Star Wars movie. So they're going to go back like he's going to still be around who who is Harrison Ford because he signed a deal to do more movies. Oh I don't know how I don't really. I don't know if he's a Hologram avenue that coming out of a droid. I don't know if it's a pre story I I don't know how would you do that. Yeah not a lot of makeup and is because as I keep seeing Mark Hamill involved in this at least in the premiers. He's go and maybe it's just because he's such a figure he's a star in the series but it is he can't be in this one right. He's gone right. We all know that I mean. These are not spoiler alert because the movie's been out for at least least two years. Now if you're star wars fan you've already seen that so is Hammill in this movie. I don't I don't know but did you hear there's a finally finally a same sex Kylie. That's yes thank you yes thank you. It's about time George the Bellingham Pat Gray of leash. Barak triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety three. It has been a heck of a year for the global warming alarmists. This was the year when we went from. Okay we got to really take care of the earth or you know the temperatures go rise by twenty degrees by twenty one hundred i. I don't know what the deal was but it was twenty one hundred. We're looking out for twenty one hundred where I guess humanity was going to be incinerated by that. Well now we had twelve twelve years then they actually bumped that down to ten years and now some people are saying. Oh I think we're up to about five minutes left for for humanity five minutes diet. It's unbelievable so we wanted to talk to Gregory writes stone. Who has you know the book? The inconvenient isn't facts which is great and did the apples and I think the observational right. Now it wasn't it was and then it wasn't now it is but for inconvenient facts so gregory joins us now on the blaze Gregory Welcome. Oh Yeah we'd better talk quick because I think we're down to twelve minutes we. We have time. We'll try crazy. Yeah we'll see what we can do Since last we talked we've had the Greta Thunberg tour into where she's been shaming us all over the planet and you know I don't know. Is anybody listening to her has hysteria. is she making a big difference. You think in in in this argument well well. She's certainly exciting young people with with her so-called facts that just aren't true and she really needs to go back to school. It's not it's not that so much of what she knows so much of what she thinks she knows is just incorrect. And then there's a lot of the climate in fact that she just she doesn't she doesn't have any knowledge of and I've gone to some of these Friday. Climate strikes call them Fridays for fascist. And I've talked to some of the adults I get where the sixteen and fifteen or twelve year old little girls. They don't they they're they're easily excitable and they buy into This climate alarmism. But it's the adults that I talked to at these things that it's amazing. Just how little knowledge they have about the actual climate facts and there's so much much misinformation out there we have. You have to wade through and that's as you know we've talked before. I had the same experience several years ago. You're told one thing told one and saying just the opposite and it was at searched for the truth that led me to the research that said. Oh my God I've gotta write this book and expose all this stuff and the the indoctrination of Greta Third Thunberg and that entire generation in fact is just despicable. I mean somebody should be held accountable for that because they have done such an unbelievable disservice to these kids. They scared the hell out of them. And they've created all this this climate of fear among among the youth that has gotten out of control where the actually think the world is GonNa end in eight or ten years. It's despicable yeah exactly and they're lying to US and they're lying to them and I've I heard my job as I see it as to expose these lies is and the biggest one lately and Greta thornbirds men promoting this this notion of a sixth mass extinction. She talks just about every time you hear speak. We heard hear her talking about extinctions raging out of control and it's just the opposite if we look at extinctions the UN report report was released last month predicted one million extinctions over the next several decades. Would he get twenty or thirty thousand extinctions per year. You know what it's I've been for the last forty years. I'm an extinctions to stations freer not two thousand two hundred and Greg. Well we're going to get the thirty thousand we're pretty said no we're not and they just they just been the. UN should have been saying. Oh my God. We're doing a really good job on protecting endangered species. Gregory Gregory Gregory. I just saw a story last week and this year alone. Twenty nine thousand nine. They've discovered covered seventy one new species. Yeah so it sounds like we're plus sixty nine doing fine. It was it's just a there was just an article came out two days ago They said oil well In the in the last decade there been I think it was a hundred eighty species. Gone extinct well if you look at each one of the species extinctions virtually every one of them will the species was last seen in eighteen eighty seven on Galapagos Glock. Bogus island this species less seen in nineteen twenty seven. They just declared them extinct ten within the last ten years. And so I mean you have to go through dive dive in and and Parse this information. And that's it and I I I've exposed these lies and why. Why did they do it? They do it. 'cause they need to generate a climate of fear Darius among everybody they have to have a scare population. Because why in the world would we. Why would the United States impose economically crippling regulations and restrictions on our freedom like the Paris? Climate Accord's the green new deal. The only reason we would do it is if we don't. We're going to dive into one climate apocalypse event after the other. And as you know we've talked. I'm a huge proponent of the nurses versus thriving and prospering and humanity center feting the modest warming in temperature and an increase in co two. And it's just is. Yeah although they're they're trying desperately right. Now we're speaking with Gregory right stone. Wrote the book inconvenient facts and created the inconvenient facts APP for those times. When you're talking to somebody WHO's Annoying you at work with climate change nonsense but you have a great fact about the US having reduced co two emissions over the past decade. What has what has China done as far as co two goes yeah? That's that's what I've been dealing with middle of writing commentary about that. That's the big story story that we're being told we have to reduce co two carbon dioxide emissions. They're saying the burning of fossil fuels is creating too much carbon dioxide which is warming and The planet and what we see here the new EPA commissioner that trump appointment just last month came out. He said we've reduced do start. Our CEO tuitions by fourteen percent in the last ten years. Wow what and this is the big this comma but it's the but what's chapter but's it's really important. Is that China. According to him in the last thirty to forty five days there increases in co two. Just in that time period of a month and a half completely wiped out everything we've done in the last ten years to reduce our emissions phineas charging forward but you know the premier try try and Donald Trump they. They're actually moving in lockstep. 'cause they both understand. How do you drive? How does housing any KONAMI driven? How do we get a turbo charged economy you do it by providing low-cost abundant reliable energy and in China there there? They've got a control and command economy. They're they're charging for with opening new coal mines building more coal-fired electrcity here in the United States. Donald trump is is protecting us by saying no. We're not we're I'm not going to harm. Our economy by artificially increasing energy costs. Everybody 'cause that drives CBS up coach for everything. And it'd be it'd be putting the brakes on our economy. He doesn't WanNa do that. And yet the climate alarmists though are making China out to be on the cutting edge of environmentalism. I get away with that. And why are they pushing that that that rhetoric. WHOA WHOA look what's being proposed to save the planet? It's ELECTR wind and solar. No one looks at the front end or the back end of this. The front hand is words. All these were all the rare earth minerals come from China Mongolia. I'll tell you what everybody listening right now should google well. Don't don't get away from the radio or the TV. But but Google Congo and cobalt those two words. And you'll find their over. Ten thousand children under the age is under the age of twelve that are being used in these open. Cobalt Mines in the Congo recreate batteries. For the Tesla Tesla and your precious iphones. And then we look at the front end of of the creationist. What about the tail end these things? Only the solar alert panels and wind turbines only have twenty fifteen twenty year life. And then they have to be recycled or buried and you can't recycle solar panels else and the the the big wind turbines just fill up landfills tremendously. So it's those two things we look at and then I also like. I like to look at India. As is a great example. India is in there also charging forward with with coal coal-fired electricity's but Prime Minister Modi there he says as we're GONNA do we have to 'cause he's got six hundred million people living in destitute generational poverty that wants to lift up out of poverty and how. How can you argue against that but Greta once she wants to Destin these people right to generational poverty? Yes India Africa. All the developed Philip World. Sorry you can't have access to cheap energy. Sorry you're just GonNa have to starve. It's it's insane insist and you can't do. I mean India for example. I was there the last time I was there during the monsoon. You can't do solar. They've got three years. They've three months a year. Where does nothing right? And you can't use solar and a lot of that time the wind project so there they can't do that can't do solar really and you're you're left with coal. Oh fire and and that's what they're doing and also we look. You're probably four million people dying early deaths Around the globe but mostly these really horrifically a poor countries because they're cooking over wood and dry done and they're breathing in the fumes and it's We those are four million lives. Lives could be easily spared by providing fossil fuels propane. Compressed natural gas coal fired electricity's those four million lives could could could be spared in early demise. And and that's what I want. Are you saying that we shouldn't go to dry Dung energy system in this entry. Is that what you're saying. I mean radical I only counting on dried Dung as the future. Right right if you're gonNA surprises with that Announcement all of a sudden the. But what's what's next for you what's coming up. I'm struggling writing my next book. It'll be I'm not going to tell you the the title but it's GonNa be again. It's going to be a celebration. There are two things that I've identified in this in. This debate is the really needs to be debunked. One is that our current modern historical warming period and when temperature we have right now are warmer than they've been in two thousand years. No they're not and we and I'm going to be using historical data and scientific data dispute that. I mean we've still got vikings buried deeply in the permafrost for crying out loud. The Romans were were we're growing citrus. In the north of England things like that and people understand that they get that and and and then the other half is of the book will be a celebration eleboration of an earth that's thriving and prospering and it's boy. Just by almost every metric we look at Is this is an earth. It's it's improving and and part of this is if we look historically I find it fascinating to look back through human history of last four or five thousand years to find it. All the the the past warming periods were times of thriving and prospering. And it's the cold that were there were horrific horrific if you were emperor Pat In warming period. We had a pretty good. You know you could feed your subjects. I think you'd be a good effort by the way and but If you were emperor pat in a in a cold period man with a yes exactly we have just a couple of minutes. There's a fascinating Relationship here between the witch hunts of the late Middle Ages and climate change and cause starting in about the fourteenth century St started getting cold and crops began to fail Famine set in and they blamed it on whether causing witches and they started killing them over the next three hundred years. There were like thirty thousand to forty thousand supposed- which burn at the stake for the most part and then about fifteen hundred started warming up and all the witches. Yeah right exactly run. He said Oh oh we did really good and that lasted for like forty years and then it really started getting cold. And that's that's really when the big pogroms set in with with a huge numbers which is and it just directly to temperature and it's is exactly opposite of real told being told. Beware of the warm. No no no. If you're if you're game of thrones fan you know which which the How stark motto is? Winter is coming well that they feared winter and we should to. It's the next time it's GonNa get cold and it will It will be horrific. It will be horrific not as bad as the previous periods because back then. We're not moving food from place to place on walks cart. But that's Greta would want us to do which is to get away you know either. Electric Powered Oscars we can transport but it will still. You're not or technology. One crops fail. It's not gonNA help. We can't bill hundreds of thousands of acres of greenhouses to to make it crops work. But it's going to be bad fascinating goes always a gregory. Thank you stone. Inconvenient facts is the book we actually have a link For that book on twitter at unleashing. We're also going to link to that awesome a bog post that you're talking about what the witchcraft being associated with the lights. It's awesome the books books for the number one bestseller Amazon off and on since March the other day it was again. That's great all right. Thanks Greg we'll talk to you again soon. Appreciate it get get that Christmas gift for your Climate Climate Change Hysteria Larma slamming your life. Yeah triple eight nine hundred thirty. Three ninety-three keeps let's talk about losing your hair. Why kind of late for Keith? Although I will say this you know not only just keeps blocked at hormone that has been discovered board that helps contribute to hair loss. DHT But in a pretty significant number of guys it also regrows hair. So you might try this Keith. Am I want to give that a shot right. KIEF keeps offers generic versions of the two. FDA approved hair products. So they're not only the APP to ninety percent effective. They're totally affordable now. And we're going to get you started with fifty percent off the already low price gay with keeps so you can save your hair. Don't even have to leave your couch do it you go online. You answer a few questions you snap a few pictures of your hair. Send that in a licensed doctor. We'll get a hold of you and review your information recommend the right hair loss treatment for you then they ship it right to your door so if you're tired of losing your hair you don't want to anymore and and you want to try to regrow it gay free online Dr Insult and fifty percent off your first order now go to keeps dot com slash pat pretty easy keeps dot com slash pat that's keeps dot com slash pat. I will keep my promise. I live in the past present and the future spirits of three. We're striving in heaven. Christmas time break up my Jacob Gray. Yeah so you made a point there. You're talking about how I could. Maybe use keeps on my balding head in you. Know and a lot of people might be listening to the podcast or an iheartradio or something like that right now and they don't they don't realize that. Oh my gosh. Keith is bald. He has has no hair movie. You'd like to actually see this for yourself you could just go to blaze. TV DOT COM SLASH PAT Where you can save twenty bucks if I do what what do I have to do? You have to use. It was offer Code Pat Twenty off. So if you've ever knew there was a catch so I have to put in Pat Twenty off. Yeah yeah remember. Remember the way I'm selling. This is if you want to see Keats Bald Spot Yeah Oh blaze. TV everyone does. It's a heck of a deal right now. Through Christmas it's awesome also at PAT unleashed. We attack Yuki tweeting. The risk of Mendel Laureus requires the Baby Iota be delivered to to the Senate for Acquittal Madman. Damase it's not mandatory. But from the Steve forty-two remake all the Disney classics with only gay trends bike characters abortions at drag queen storytime. Yes Ah yes Hashtag kill me. I know it's getting to that point Tricia Sanders tweets frazier quotes. Help help everything make more sense through. Now there's a fun show. They don't make them like that anymore. Such a great show has been you know. Must Watch Network TV since friends and frazier and Seinfeld went off the air. I don't think or me no and and I thought what you were gonNA say. There is was frazier. Maybe a spin off and this is a bold comment. I love cheers loved loved. Loved it too but frazier. I mean that that might be at least competing for a spin off. That may have been better than the original. Yes yeah possible yeah Before we go too far though we're talking about TV shows and you just mentioned the baby yoga thing I know you're GONNA WANNA see this Remember how you enjoy the baby. Yoda video in cockpit hit with the mandal oriented spaceship Oh we got another play baby yoga videos all day vincent another one here all right. Do we have that. Okay come here and the men delorean finally puts them back in his crib or whatever that is oh like right Christmas music. He does not know no good suggestion. All right we got this from. Ah from small Hank. Yeah thank what has fifteen actors little sort of. Oh good I like these. What has fifteen actors four settings to writers and one plotline six hundred thirty two hallmark Christmas movies? That is so true. That is so true. I mean some of a refund but seriously I can't do better than that. They did. Thirty thirty nine new movies just this year alone thirty not. You can't make him quality when you're pumping him out like that. I would argue. You can't make them quality letty period. Mar a couple of them are good. Oh good there's a few well I would say Let's see we got this. So Pat Diehard and home alone not Christmas movies. I guess that means it's a wonderful. Life is not a Christmas movie either all yes no no no no uh-huh wait. No yes no no no no. That's a great point now. When is it Christmas in their end? It's Christmas in the beginning and the middle and the end all through it. Okay is there are some Non Christmas Times in the movie you are selling it okay. But it can't compare it's a wonderful life to a terrorism movie. Come on. I want to know on screen time. Someone do this so when sit down with both movies. It's a wonderful life life and die hard and what's more Christmasy how many images You know log the minutes Christmas images and if you're going to keep those and I want people to be honest with me though. Do you really breakout die. Hard Win Christmas. That's not the question is the question the question is is it a movie. It's a Christmas movie. If you watch it for Christmas unmatched Chris Hi Watch. It's wonderful for Christmas. I don't know anybody who says hey. It's December fourteenth. I've got to watch die hard right now. No now wait wait a minute. I seem to remember in. It's a wonderful for life Somebody's going off to college or something right. That doesn't have to college. We'll George starts to. Yeah so that's in September timber or August or I mean there are times. I've said it there are times when it's not but do you pull it down off the shelf put it in your Dvr via one or you. Just do it digitally do that at Christmas time. Of course people do do people clamor to watch die hard as a Christmas movie at Christmas time. That's what I want when the family together around are they saying. Hey you know what. We have watched this Christmas season. Die Hard you know what I'm going to catch up. I haven't watched The latest Jack Ryan installment installment. I've been waiting for some time off around Christmas. Yes Christmas series. Yeah Jack Right because the series I thought thought it don't make sense that I'm watching holidays. It will okay. Cool now Jack Ryan have you watched any of it yeah watch. The first season was great. Yeah okay now washer first season and I think I've seen two episodes of the second I just don't it hasn't really grabbed me this time. Really Yeah shoot. I don't know why eight to hear that because our tastes are pretty similar. Yeah in that All right but what do I know. What do I know that's true? I think I heard not a Christmas movie so obvious that are no oh nothing. I'm not gonNA take your advice under council. I'm going to enjoy Jack Ryan in the whole time GonNa be watching. Where's Pam? This is weird. I don't understand where where's PAM from the office. Where's Michael I still can't? I mean he's a great actor John Kuczynski Right. Let Me Great Jim Kozinski. And what was the movie. He did The other one that we are t now that was so good. I cannot every time I see him. I takes me just a couple of seconds. I'm just like oh no. That's not the office. Yeah I WANNA laugh. But it's time to really like him though he's going to raise so go. Triple eight nine hundred thirty three ninety-three tomorrow big Christmas edition of Cranleigh plus more on Trivia. Of course. I think it's packers vikings Monday night. Game Right Sir. So we'll speech predicting that And plan some best of clips of the year. All Time uh-huh.

Donald Trump Nancy Pelosi twitter President president Senate US trump Richard Jewel Barack Barack Obama Pat Kelsey grammer frazier Bernie Sanders Sanders Elizabeth Warren Democrats Houston pat gray Richard Jewel Guy FBI
Inside the Backlash Against Juul


27:22 min | 1 year ago

Inside the Backlash Against Juul

"Despite all the evidence of why should despite all the, you know, family history, etc. Etc. I knew I was never gonna quit smoking like that was pretty much it. And then this miracle comes along and I quit smoking. Jennifer Bergman Coleman is not talking about a pill or patch or smoking cessation plan. She's talking about vaping or specifically juuling Julie's a high tech way to inhale nicotine without burning tobacco, like a regular cigarette. And this is how jewel says its product is supposed to work, getting addicted smokers like Jennifer to finally quit. But along the way, jewel got a lot bigger than that taking off, not just with smokers, but with teenagers, it became a social media sensation. Yup, what's going on? Everybody? It's Downey smokes. Come back at you guys with another video today. So in this video today, what we got is how to make your experience with the jewel better. Many of these videos look like they were made by someone underaged. So people have started to worry teens getting addicted to nicotine. Many of whom had never smoked before it is a an adolescent public health crisis happening before our eyes in real time, and no one is doing anything fast enough to stop it. Parents like Meredith Berkman, but also doctors and regulators have begun drawing up the battle lines. They believe something has to be done now to get jewel out of the hands of their children, and the blowback is about to be fierce. Hi, I'm Cari and I'm a Libya's Leschi and this week on decrypted as part of a special season, we're exploring the unintended consequences of technology, and we're talking about jewel. The company says it only ever wanted to help adults quit smoking. Instead, it sets off a teen sensation over vaping, but regulators and parents like Meredith aren't buying. It. Investigators want to know was the company marketing to teens on purpose and critics are calling for keeping products to be pulled from the market to stop them from falling into the hands of underage users that has customers like Jennifer up and on's because they say that by helping them quit smoking jewel has essentially saved their lives. Stay with us. Jill has been around for some time. The idea I originated in two thousand and five, Adam Bowen and James Montes to Stanford graduate students were both addicted smokers and they used to swap business ideas on smoke breaks between classes. One day, they landed on an idea to disrupt big tobacco and eventually they came up with what we see today a pen like device with a pot or cartridge filled with tobacco infused liquid users suck on the pen which causes the pod to heat, delivering a powerful blast of nicotine into the lungs. And then straight to the inhalants brain pods. I came in flavors like cool mint and Kremlin Adam and James name their product jewel because it conjured up the image of a rare gemstone jewel is also a unit of energy in June of twenty fifteen adamant. James launched that product to the masses with a now infamous marketing campaign. It was full of bright colors and models looking like college students. How many were wearing Letterman jackets and crop tops and high ponytails. And the campaign appeared mainly on Instagram. But still the company says jewel was always meant for adults and more specifically addicted cigarette smokers. And that's how Jennifer began using it her high. You've never been here before. Right. Okay. This is Bloomberg welcome. I, I met Jennifer this summer after I had connected with the American beeping association on a sunny Saturday morning. Jennifer came over to Bloomberg San Francisco office on the piers. We sat and chatted about her struggles with nicotine addiction, which started at an early age. The time I smoked my first cigarette. I was probably ten years old. I became a daily smoker probably somewhere between fifteen and sixteen, but probably it was close to a pack a day, maybe a half a pack a pack a day. When I was in high school, Jennifer is actually a nurse, and she's a mother. Of two teenagers herself, and she wasn't the only one in her family who smoked Jennifer's father is a chain smoker and is smoking has caused him to have both his legs amputated that had a profound effect on Jennifer, but she really couldn't quit. He both. Oh, it's too so easy to quit. It's such a dirty habit quit, you know? And it's not that simple. I tried everything. I tried the patches. I tried the gum. I tried the patches together with the gum. I tried the medications. I try chewing onto pigs and hard candy. You know, all the things they tell you to do. Eventually. She tried vaping at some point. I just kind of thought, well, I should maybe give this a try. A single jewel pod contains as much nicotine as a pack of twenty regular cigarettes. This is probably the closest thing that you would get to drawing on a cigarette where you inhale it into your mouth. Then endear lungs. Jennifer says this gives her a nicotine fix without smelling like cigarettes and. Not social stigma of smoking. She also believes it's lot better for her when day. I just kind of knew I was done. I had a couple of cigarettes left and I threw away. I was like, okay, I'm done. It took about a year or so for sales of Jules vaping devices to pick up. The company showed me a chart of its sales, and there's a point in about late twenty sixteen when the bars on the chart just begin to rise a lot by January twenty seventeen jewel says sales up six hundred twenty seven percent, and it was emerging as one of the most significant players in the east cigarette market. And the product was going pretty viral. Juuling had become a verb. It was a sensation on social media. Everyone of my school. If Joel is it's like this little black faith thing describe it's basically just vaping and you get super buzzed off how to jewel how'd you Jill and school to joy for the first time? All right. Let's check it out jewel. Sash 'em. How are your cloud so big how you go. So milky more more more tips with the jewel like actually kinda wanted to get on. This is pretty good. This is I haven't this. These are just a few of the hundreds of videos online of teens and young twentysomethings talking about how much they love jewel, and this was the problem jewel says it designed its products for people like Jennifer who used it to kick a cigarette habit, but it's explosion in sales wasn't just coming from smokers looking to quit last year. Thirty, six percent of high school students said they had tried vaping according to a report from the university of Michigan reports from the centers for disease control and prevention. Say that electronic cigarettes are the most commonly used tobacco product among high school students. That's a pretty scary prospect for a lot of parents with teenage kids. Many parents now find themselves completely consumed with, unfortunately, what is arguably the most pressing American public health issue. Certainly for kids that's Meredith Berkman. She's a mom in New York City. Meredith has four children. Her older kids are already in their teens. Meredith says she doesn't think her own kids vape, but over the last year, she and two other moms. She knows started hearing a lot more about it individually. We had all heard a little bit of bits and pieces about Easter at vaping. Maybe we'd heard about juuling, but we really didn't know much about it. We knew it was something we should learn about, but it really wasn't on on our radar. Meredith inner concerned friends started doing a bit of research. They started reading articles online, and then they moved to reading academe studies. And Meredith said the next thing she knew they were contacting experts because what they were discovering was really alarming. All three came to the realization that it was something so important that we had better. Join parents, education and advocacy group out there. So we could educate ourselves and potentially educate others who knew even less than we did. And then there was this moment of realization that there was not such a group that existed in March. Meredith started parents against vaping, e cigarettes or pave with those two other moms to advocate against jewel and other e cigarette companies pave has a website that educates parents and organizers events at schools to give parents and members of the media information on keeping. Meredith says her biggest fear is that vaping is going to have negative health consequences further down the line and that the technology is so new that its impact hasn't been fully understood yet people have sex of us. Well, this is not the opioid crisis, and no one is going to die, and this is not mothers against drunk driving, and you know, God forbid, right, but the reality is, we don't know. I'm not a public health expert, but I am among before kids and I know an important issue that affects my children and other women's children other people's children when I see one. And so we're sort of accidental public healthcare advocates. So it's true. These products are very new, but there's a course of experts who say, juuling poses clear health risks to teenagers, and that's because every jewel pod contains so much nicotine. There's plenty of evidence showing that nicotine is very harmful to the developing brain that's Dr Bonnie Halpern, Faucher developmental psychologist and professor at Stanford in the division of adolescent medicine. Pediatrics, Bonnie studies. How environmental factors influence adolescent decision making around nicotine products? The developing brain basically continues until somebody is in their mid twenties. So you take somebody who sixteen, they have a brain that still malleable. It's still plastic so to speak. It's still developing Bonnie explained to me that two important things are happening in the teenage brain. I, there's a process called pruning going on. Bonnie says, that's the brain shedding away parts. It doesn't need. Anymore. And the second process is called Mylan his Asian. That's a process in which a sheath is created over a neuron to make it work or fire better. Bonnie says that because these processes happen during outta leci- teens have an easier time becoming deeply addicted to nicotine. It hijacks the pleasure rewards of the brain. And the body says, I like this and I'm going to change and your brain actually changes to accommodate into taken that nicotine and because it's a dictator of there are consequences for people whose brains are exposed to too much nicotine Pacific -ly creates withdrawal symptoms and the feeling of needing more and more nicotine, fifteen ages who will never smoke in the first place. Jewel has been accused of pulling in young uses with its high nicotine content and effectively turning them into customers for life. People, young people who are using Joel today never planned on smoking a cigarette. So this song. Called harm reduction. That's not the question with young people. Young people, it's fresh air versus vapes on top of this e cigarettes are still so new to the market that we don't yet know what other health risks could come up down the line. So a lot of parents like Meredith have focused their attention on restricting access, including cracking down on Jools flavored pods jewel currently sells eight flavors, two of these Virginia tobacco and classic tobacco taste almost like cigarettes, the other six, a mango cucumber mental mint fruit and cream and Meredith feels. It's just no coincidence at all that some of jewels flavors taste almost like candy. And we also know from emerging research that kids who who begin juuling are three point eight, almost four times more likely to begin smoking conventional cigarettes than non juuling kids. If this were really just solely a smoking cessation device, why would you want flavors? Why would you want to hook people to the flavors? So that's how I would answer that. We are not interested in banning the jewel for adults. But what we're interested in doing is closing the loophole. Many of the health advocates and doctors. I've spoken to feel the same way if the flavors of the pods weren't so sweet and tasty may be teenagers wouldn't find vaping as appealing. The debate over flavors cuts to the heart of the controversy surrounding jewel. One Kemp says, a medical device shouldn't need to mock itself as delicious. Just effective. The other side says, addicts need the flavors to quit like Jennifer. She said the flavors made it easy to start using the product when every other smoking cessation device just felt like a chore upwards of somewhere between eighty five and eighty. Nine percent of people said that the. Flavors, the availability of flavors, where the key element in getting them to quit smoking and the availability of those are a very important part of how people quit. So that's the case for flavoring because it worked for Jennifer. She became an activist. She worked with the American vaping association to advocate against regulation, and she's not alone. When we met Jennifer. She said she had joined about fifty vaping groups on Facebook alone, and she's found a large community on other social networks like Instagram. She's part of a pro vaping movement. Meanwhile, Meredith and scores of other parents across the country had set up their own advocacy groups and four sets of parents lining up to sue the company arguing that its flavors hooking that kids. But as this battle was playing out, a larger threat to jewel was forming. It was coming from cities states and the federal government itself. America's largest e cigarette makers under fire this morning. One St. now investigating whether jewel markets teenagers after a series of lawsuits accusing the company of trying to team state attorney general Maura Healey's office has launched an investigation into jewel e cigarette maker. The attorney general held a news conference earlier. The first investigations came from state regulators in Massachusetts. They will ask him questions about the sale of Jules flavors as well as the company's early marketing campaigns Mississippi's attorney general Jim hood is also asking questions then over the summer and the company's hometown of San Francisco voters resoundingly supported a ban on flavored tobacco products own. If this was happening right off to jewel hit. One of the biggest milestones there is for a startup. It raised one point, two billion dollars from tech investors to fund the next stage of the company's growth. And according to those negotiations, jewel was said to be worth fifteen billion dollars. It was June, and I had just started covering jewel and this funding round was shocking. It's just so much money and to put those numbers in perspective, it meant investors thought jewel was as valuable as lift the ride hailing company or twice as much as slack a mobile messaging platform. Yet. This company's products had only been on the market for three years in June jewel said it had captured sixty eight percent of the US cigarette business. This is a specially impressive. If you consider that e cigarettes are generally thought to be the future of the regular cigarette market, which brought in about one hundred and five billion in the US last year. Through the summit. Silicon Valley was buzzing with talk about jewel. The company seemed poised for a continued growth surge, despite the probe in Massachusetts and lawsuits from parents. Most people, I was talking to expressed confidence that the company would move past these hurdles and the culture in Silicon Valley has in the pasta and very encouraging of companies that push the limits of existing regulation. Like that's the approach companies like Uber took and for a time that was considered to be a smart strategy. Then in September, the real bombshell hit. Drug administration says it is preparing to launch a campaign to discourage teens from using e cigarettes. The FDA is also investigating the marketing strategies and impact of several vaping products, including the most popular e cigarette jewel, federal regulators, the American food and drug administration's Commissioner, Scott Gottlieb, sensual and four other e cigarette companies. Escaping letter, he gave e cigarette companies sixty days to submit quote, robust plans for how they'll stop teens from using that products. And this was a big reversal because only last year the FDA decided that e cigarette companies didn't have to submit products for review until twenty twenty two. Then in early October, the FDA said it collected more than a thousand pages of documents from Jules offices in an unannounced onsite inspection. The company for its part says that t. news has never been allowed and that bad actors are the ones who are responsible for selling jewel two kids. There's a lot of of unauthorized illegal reselling on other marketplaces with no h verification. That's Ashley gold jewels, chief administrative officer in the executive who has been at the forefront of defending jewel publicly. What she's saying here is a critical part of Jules defense. Teens really shouldn't be able to get a hold of this product in the first place. Ashley said teens or buying jewels and jewel pods from lawbreaking vape shops. And these online resellers think EBay, Alibaba, Amazon, and even WalMart dot com. We have a technological solution where we scrape the internet every day and send automated systems and desist letters to these online market. Places the people who are posting are trying to make it not look like they're selling our product. So sometimes we see the ad an e at the end or the added dollar side, they'll try to make it so that whatever systems is online marketplaces put in place to say, you can't post jewel product that they somehow get around it. And here's what happens when someone buys product directly from Jules website, the company checks the buyers age by matching the credit card details public records. You also have to take a picture of yourself holding your government ID which must also match the government databases, but the company is going to have to do more than that to satisfy the FDA an angry parents. I asked Ashley about whether jewel has a plan and what it looks like. She said the company is exploring a technological solution to the problem. The idea is that each each cigarette would be linked to a smartphone. People using jewel would have to prove through an app on their smartphone that they're of age to use the product. And this would make it harder for underage person to use jewel illegally. If you are an underage user at somebody of h purchased the product for you and gave it to you, then maybe thirty days later the device stops working in order to reactivate it, you have to go through our online age verification process through an app so that in order to reactivate the device, you have to prove to us that you're of age to use it think that that technology could be revolutionary Libya. It basically sounds like jewel is putting a tracking device into its product. Yeah, but maybe that's a good thing to stop teens from using when Ashley gold described the technology to me, I thought, well, if jewel is really serious about cutting back on t. news, this may be could work. The question is whether the US government will allow them to do it. Jewel said, the product requires pre approval from the FDA and the agency might be on willing to let them launch a whole new. New product in the US. Yeah, I get the sense. They're not quite sure if jewel had bad intentions or not, and whether it deliberately tried to appeal to a younger audience through its ad campaigns in those sweet flavors, but we understand that those ads reflect a the colors and a lifestyle sort of image that is really not consistent with our messaging, and it's not something frankly that we would launch today. But that doesn't mean that the company had bad intentions. So alluvia because this is the unintended consequences season of decrypted. I think we have to stop an ask is this situation that jewels in with all its appeal to teenagers? Is it truly unintended? You know, it's hard to to say. But what we do know is that when the company was created, James and atom, the founders were pretty young themselves, and I think they were sort of in this campus college community where they weren't really interacting with many teenagers. They were sort of thinking about themselves and designing a product that was just right for them. You know, the backlash has been growing really through the summit, but the rise in sales has been going on for, you know, maybe eighteen months at this point and jewel hasn't done things that it could have done perhaps to address teen sales earlier, like they haven't made it hot if people to buy huge volumes of that product at once. Yeah, I found really interesting to you'd think that it would be so easy to say, well, we're not going to sell a hundred pack. WCHS to a single online distributor, or if we do sell to avai shop, we're going to kind of keep an eye on how much product were moving to them. I asked the company about this and I have to be honest, they didn't have a great answer. So I hope that they're working on that. I mean, the other thing that I thought about was the situation with pods because jewel says it has a big issue with counterfeit pods on the market huge issue. And you know, that's something that they told me is that they're getting all the heat, they're getting all the backlash for selling pods at our bubblegum flavored for example, but actually jewel doesn't even make up on flavored pot. They said that those are coming from counterfeit companies. You know, I spoke to a ton of parents who really were up in arms like, how can we trust this company that makes Bubba Gump flavored pod? That's so clearly targeted to a teenager and I told him, you know, actually, Joel doesn't make that that's a counterfeit product, and they were really surprised to hear that. So you know jewel does have this problem where it's sort of guilty by associate. And it begs the question when a company's valued over fifteen billion dollars, like how much of that is their responsibility, even if they're not making the product themselves, it's still their brand and maybe they need to do more to clamp down on counterfeit products. One thing I'll tell you quickly is that jewel earlier this month just filed a complaint with the US International Trade Commission saying that, oh, over fifteen companies, mainly in China and some of the United States and France are just blatantly developing and selling products that are counterfeits based on Jules patented technology, and they're asking the IDC to do way more to stop the import of these products. So as of this taping Livia was still a few weeks away from the FDA's deadline for jewel to submit those plans for stopping teens from using its product. How big a threat do you think this could this investigation could be to the company? I think it's a huge threat. I think it not only is hurting morale internally at the company of people are afraid of what will happen. Stressful, but you know, it could really clamp down on their business if they get rid of flavored pods, that's a a large revenue source for them. And you know, perhaps people that end up going to smaller companies that have flavored Padre they'll just by the counterfeit ones. Yeah. And ultimately it might be tough for jewel to convince regulators that anything short of eliminating flavors will be enough. That would be a blow for people like Jennifer who think the flavors are the key to helping her quit? Yeah. When I spoke to her, she said she believes quitting smoking has really benefited her family and that the solution to the problem of teenage use should involve doing a better job of making sure age restrictions are enforced. It's already illegal for children to smoker vape. So the only thing you're doing by passing, these laws is restricting adult access for people who want to quit. And what about the kids? What about their parents? What about their parents who are dying unnecessarily tobacco related illnesses, then what are you going to do with those kids? Meanwhile, doctors and parents like Meredith Berkman want regulators to intervene. They just don't believe the jewel can really be trusted to help solve a problem that it essentially created the moment is now if we don't act now quickly, we will have an entire generation of children addicted to nicotine. Why are you waiting even one more day? Because every day that goes by more and more teens are becoming addicted. And that's it for this week's decrypted. Thanks for listening. Do use jewel, or do you know a young person? Who does we want to hear from you? You can Email us at decripit at Bloomberg dot net, or I'm on Twitter at Olympia Zeleski, and I'm at got Cari. If you're a fan of the show, please take a moment to rate and review us. It really helps new listeners find the show. This episode was produced by Pia guide. Cari Nagas Henriksen and Austin, Weinstein are story editors were Emily view so and and Vander may. Thanks also to Brad stone Akihito and Liz Smith Francesca Levy is head of Bloomberg podcast. Let see you here next week.

Jennifer Bergman Coleman nicotine Meredith Berkman Jewel FDA United States James Montes Joel American vaping association Stanford Jill Libya Ashley gold Massachusetts Bloomberg Jules Silicon Valley Adam Bowen
Tommy McNamara has never seen Richard Jewell

Never Seen It

1:03:53 hr | 3 months ago

Tommy McNamara has never seen Richard Jewell

"Starlings there thank you for listening to the Star Burns Audio podcast network. We have so many great comedy shows to add to your playlist just last week on starnes audio on emotional support. Alissandria is joined by her guests arch. They talk all about mental health dealing with loneliness country and becoming Paris. Hilton's bff on dumb gay politics. Julian Brandy interview the high school senior. Who's viral tweet? To President? Obama led to his historic nationwide graduation. Commencement address and the season. One finale of musicals that never made it gave in the gang are joined by. Broadway's drew gambling for inspirational. Show about the magic of self worth in the Great Zine on that black ash show comedian and actor Jomar neighbors joins host dulcie Sloan and discussing the cultural impact of the movie Friday audio on Apple Podcasts spotify or any podcast platform or full list of our shows featuring host like Gilbert Godfrey Paula poundstone and kyle claim. Don't forget to far was on instagram twitter at starbucks audio. Enjoy the show and remember. Stay safe stay healthy and keep laughing. Hey guys it's the sklar brothers here and we have a daily podcast called Scarborough Country. The Viruses Aka the Pandy Pie Aka to Jews. No harmon killebrew is so much fun. We get Take about a half hour of your time. Twenty five minutes to just allow you to breathe to just not on someone else no nonsense but just to tell you. These are the craziest things that happen that we found and we try and make fun of them. You're not looking at flattening curves. You're not looking at stock. Market numbers are not looking at death. Tolls what you are is. You're laughing at the world and taking a a much-needed mum. You might think that you're doing a bad job. Parenting during this lockdown. But guess what you didn't let your five year old. Take the car and get pulled over by the Utah State. Police on the freeway. We talk about that stuff and we talk about of the people that are dying who should die. Yes we give our list of people who we think should go. This is a podcast that you need to listen to take your mind off your troubles and laugh a little bit with Scarborough Country. The virus edition anywhere. You get in a world where every conversation is about what movie or TV show you just see. This is never seen it. Comedians rewriting famous movies and TV shows. They've never seen. Hey everybody today's episode the very funny Tommy McNamara is back with us You may remember. Tommy he's been in the podcast previously. Tommy has never seen Richard Jewel The movie that we all remember that came out the movie. We all think about and talk about all the time. Clint Eastwood's reason movie Richard Jewel. He's never seen Richard Jewel. He rewrote it. We read his script. I think we're getting in a good groove on how to record remotely with all this so I think it should be good sound quality. I think a-. In this should be great. It's one of my favorite scripts. We've done a long time. Tommy so funny. We're joined by Tom. Cars well Who you remember. Who's previously On the episode Tommy earlier. Tom and Tommy host stand by your Banda podcasts. Where people defend bands that normally get hate I didn't episode with the Eagles which is bizarre. I can't imagine anyone not liking the eagles for any reason. But this is Tommy. He's never seen Richard Jewel. Please enjoys script. This feels like most standard episode in a good way that we've done in a while and hope you enjoyed this Tommy Mac. Mary's Nursing Richard Jewel. And you would. If you subscribe your patron you would have this episode already. We got exclusive stuff early stuff all that sort of stuff going on our patriotic. It's only a few bucks a month and its patriarch dot com slash. Never seen it and you can go. Check that out out the show. If you subscribe their Patriot Dot com slash. Never seen it. You'll get all the episodes early and add free and some bonus stuff and all that sort of stuff. Patriots Dot Com. Never seen it. If you're into that police enjoy Tommy. Mcnamara has never seen Richard Jewel and stay after the end of the episode because we got a preview of Tommy as new narrative. Podcast tell you more about at the end called my spectacular life. We're going to play a clip at the very end of the episode. It's so funny and you won't check that out as well Tom McNamara. I'm saying again Tommy. I Apologize I didn't get a chance to read this before. So that's fine. Are there any specific character choices you? We'll get into it. I think it's better if you don't read a bogus. Okay all right slow. Start the thing here Going to sink this up in case someone is sinking. The audio here is the beginning. I'm clapping because I'm doing video to make it easier to sink Craig Great. Hey everybody this is never seen it. I'm your host Kyle as this is the podcast where. I have comedians rewrite famous movies and TV shows. They've never seen before joining us today and really leaning on. The Flexibility of the word famous in famous movies is a time Tommy McNamara. I'm thanks for being here. I'm always flexible. Kyle in more ways than is true. You we're all out here in our houses. Yes and I've been stretching every day. We're also joined by Tom. Takhar here. I've been stretching. I can suck my own Dick. I just WANNA stretch enough to work in. Eat My own ribs. I could eat mcrib baby back. I think that if you go through the McDonald's drive-thru now in order mcrib. They should say no. You shouldn't be allowed to go and wait through the drive through and makes someone potentially get sick because you want that hard disagree in fact. I think they should open at all. Do you actually like Magritte's open it? I'll actually. I've never had a mcrib I have known about. I think it'd be good in the picture of it. They have onions on it. And I hate onion specifically. I hate the McDonald's onions so I was never enticed by that Queenie at yourself frantically and then I also hate onion. I don't trust McDonald's to keep them off of something if I said also being like you go to McDonalds or can I get the mic rib but I'm particular about it exactly. I can't imagine doing that so I I don't order anything at McDonalds. I have to ask for modifications because no of that exact thing. I always go chicken because or and fries and maybe al ago like a breakfast item. They're not GONNA put on. They put they have those little onions. And you you can't even when you scrape them off there because they're chopped like that you can still taste them and I know that's their job to make them the that if you ask for them not to. It really makes things up so I just prefer not to. I mean I agree with you. One hundred percent. I wished I had some sort of other. Take to keep this fantastic. But you're saying everything avoided saying going through a drive through slated edition here. Which is that So this has become a bit of an issue in not in my relationship it. She didn't say we were just had my head. My hands the rest of the show. Things aren't going well because of little what we call our on the pad. Little audiences like The words that Tim Robinson was singing when that other guy was singing the dramatic country Western song. Those US as A. We're staying with my girlfriend's parents right now and they are everybody but me loves onion tier and it's come up now more than once. Where they they kind of just go. Why don't you like a to? They'll just they get blown up and they go. Why don't you like onions? And I'm just like I can't I don't know what and they go. You know I used to not like I know I know that tastes can change? It's just I don't like them. You can't with people looking at you like you're a fucking idiot if you don't like onions most it's mostly water. Great Gimme that part of only and let the rest of it have never touched. Okay then how about you? Just put a bunch of onions in your water and see if that's just as refreshing you know talent all-time Motel six instead of having a cucumber water. It's onion water. Tommy do you on so many people if I bring up is like to eat that but I don't like Whoa. I Love Them. So that's not really a problem for me. I love them so that is not a problem for me. Tommy thanks thank you all you want say. Thank you for having never seen this movie. Yes yes made it pretty far in without talking about it? You know what I'm GonNa do is I'm GonNa make a Bingo card for my show. Where anytime I talk about Star Wars fandom basically. It's going to be like all the shit that I keep doing. I assume hope people aren't sick of But one of them is going to be talking about Clint Eastwood And making the joke about him talking to the empty chair. This thing is. We're Clint Eastwood seems to make one movie every eighteen months now and I forget about all of them and then sometimes I'll be watching a trailer. Like for instance for this movie and I'll say it. It's not a reveal Richard Jewel which it's been a while since I've been as excited to photoshop a poster as I already am for this one put you maybe putting a bomb under a bench in the Atlanta Olympic Village. I think there's an actual picture of that you could use. Just Tommy sends me his picture. The Guy who's in this I think was the guy from I don't want to. I don't WanNa go I don't I? I didn't read through the script yet but every time. I see these trailers on like this looks pretty good and then it's like directed by Clint Eastwood. I'm like Oh somehow this trailer feels like it hates minorities. Now it is. It's Paul Walter Hauser who was in Tanya Tanya and only just put the revelation of that movie. It's incredible I think he's a great actor. I really like him and also I went to him for Halloween this year. And so there's an easy picture you could use and but I did that. Were you called Eitam? Yeah I did that and I put up a picture on instagram and someone quoted Richard Jewel in theaters now. And it made me so mad. Even though I was being Walter Houser in a car a fat joke I am being the guy just in a different part when I is Steve Irwin. The year that he died and someone put a quote up there the Australian guy and God no. I'm just trying to be dead TV man. There were too many seaver once. It was his own flaw dying in like August or September. The same with Steve Jobs. I think they both died really around the time where there too. Many of them That's gotta be the worst time. You WanNa die in November because then people Christmas kind of remember interview die. Where if you generally wear clothes people can throw together last minute and add blood to you. GotTa die in November. I remember I went as Doug One year. Because he was dead to me. He had switched to Disney in fuck in September. Two I do want to throw. I wasn't actually Steve Irwin for Halloween. Never earned no real no. I don't put that much thought into Halloween costumes. Yeah me neither. I've never put and this was the most this year I put the most I've ever thought into which is Tim Robinson character so it was. Were you the hotdog? No that'd be too much. I just did the the Tc Tigers Shirt and see like three other people I follow on Instagram also did that. I really thought I'd be and also my grover was like nobody's going to know what the fuck you are. And then everybody. This is the year I put the most and it was only two days worth but like fourteen hours into being edgar in the Edgar suit from men in black and I was like a ton of effort. I put like overalls in dirty shirt and like you know like if I raised my wrists. It had a little rubber band of bugs that were crawl out from underneath my shirt and Then Vincent they offer no side and said this is very cool and I was like I guess this is the most that could have happened. Yeah I like it was really cool. That made me very happy that he said that. But then I was like you know what else did I expect there to be. I do love that. We're doing never seen it. Halloween special in early. May that's the thing about being scared. You never know when it's so spooky. Wouldn't be spooky in October in October. We're going to keep doing. The march madness bracket from last year. That's the thing about being scared. I get older those little girl from me. Yes they do. Yes they do Okay so so Richard Jewel. Yes and I'm sure people this movie. Also I WANNA say this movie may be suffered because of coming out right before the pandemic don't even know if that's true. It could have just suffered from being it. Looked like he shot the whole thing with a vignette around the edges. No it was like. Didn't it come out with plenty of time before the right because I was gonna I thought about seeing it and then I had the same feeling. I was watching the trailer and then this clint. Clint Eastwood popped up. I was like yeah I can miss that. I don't need to see that Eastwood movies. I just decided to watch on a train while two French guys saved me from getting killed on that train. Put the actual guys in the movie. What an idiot wouldn't the most pretentious thing I've ever thought of. What if I had the actual army guys play themselves in the movie? I don't know did Bradley Cooper's in shooter they didn't have an actual baby play the baby doll. That cost eight dollars and that guy is a murderer in named Kyle. I think last night. That's name greatest forever. So what Tommy? What's your relationship with Clint Eastwood? You like Clint Eastwood Movies. Do you like the actor. Do you like the When I was a kid I remember thinking that Mystic River was like the deepest movie I've ever seen whatever age I was when I saw this mystic canal. It was so good and then I remember same thing with Grande Torino. At the time when I saw that was like this is incredible and then years later I was like Oh these are so stupid gruber to I was a kid. You also feel like I was like this movie's this one gets it. I thought that might be the exception. I Yeah I wouldn't say it's based off a great book but grand jury. No I guess at the time I was like. Oh my God. He's lying down his arms. He's like Christ that's brilliant and then it's like Oh wait. He's not brilliant at all. This has not been mimicked in a movie since Moon boondocks. Say Yeah exactly yeah And then I saw I saw any of the other. Recent ones didn't see American sniper or that train one or Richard Jewel. I stopped seeing Clint Eastwood Movies after a while. A friend of mine is in the train. One and I forget what it was called a very small part and said Clint Eastwood only does one take of everything. Yeah he like hammers out these movies in like four weeks like the mule and it's it doesn't seem like he's that interested in them you know it's like yeah. I gotTA give a shout out to this email. Just got that says Shut up to kyle layers age. Thirty two of Dawson who was charged with two accounts of possession of a controlled Substance Drug Paraphernalia in to felony warrant. So that'll be fun for a while. At least he's also almost the same age as me was my birthday next month. I'll I'll fit everything on that Google surge. There was a Tommy McNamara. Who broke up a robbery this year and made me so mad because it was just like. Tommy McNamara is a hero would be headline hell. Yeah but then it was. What and it wasn't even the soccer player now. And there's also a professional soccer player named Tommy McNamara. Who is most of my google alerts who keep a semi pro? Tampa Bay rays. Kyle layers that. I'm just like I hope. This suit keeps fucking tanking interpolate. I can't have this guy make it to the big leagues. Like I need some people to release. I need this guy's batting average to drop so. Seo Does the same. I can't imagine what it would be like to have like an athlete with the same name as you must be crazy so you have to give to do was anymore. That's true names. Thomas Brady for years. Tom Brady so many people still feel the need to tag me whenever that man does anything so yeah definitely people who really get it and are close with you. WanNa keep yelling. I mean I went through something similar though a lot of people. Call me petty so every time something comes up in NASCAR WITH KYLE PETTY. There was it or talking about this. One Who's rift should have ended already and that had been once and you keep bringing it up never let it go and he was at the time petty to me man so I suffer from similar thing with Tom. Petty Anyway so first off big missed opportunity for this man to not go by Dick Jewel. Which is just a good name. Yes Oh that's a fine name. Didn't Julia Dick Jewel. The jazz link for men. Tommy if you play your cards right you might be able to play if you convinced. Clint Eastwood you're the Tommy McNamara hero and play him in the movie. Oh that's a great idea. That's Richard Jewel. Goes you for Halloween? Kind of an in with Clint Eastwood Because what's not clout eastwood? What IS UP. Everybody I want to talk to you once again about quip. We're getting a lot of stuff delivered to our door these days. Why not take oral care with the same thing as well? Good Health starts with good habits and quip makes it easy by delivering. All the oral care. Essentials you need to brush and floss better equip. Electric toothbrush has time sonic vibrations. You know what I'm talking about with thirty second pulses to guide a dentist recommended two minute routine and there's even a size down version for kids so you can get something for everyone paired with quips anti cavity toothpaste and mentor watermelon. You could all the ingredients teeth actually need and nothing they don't and if you go to get quip dot com slash. Never seen it right now. You'll get your first refill. Pack for free. That is your first repeal. Pack FREE AT GET QUIP DOT COM SLASH. Never seen it spelled. G. E. T. Q. U. I. P. dot com slash. Never seen it quip. The good habits company go check it out. Attention all starmer audio listeners. This is cliff. Dorfman from stuck at home with Click Jason and the cliff. Dorfman show when I was growing up back home in Merrick. Long Island trying to plot my career for world domination in Hollywood I would have killed for any kind of road map to lay out the path. That had been blazed by all these other artists before mid but there wasn't and I had a wing it so when I finally got to a position to ask my favorite artists. How the hell they did it. I thought it's my duty to share this with whoever I could. So that's just what my co-host Jason Smith helped me to do every week. Jason and I put the record journey of some amazing prolific and talented actor artist comedian creators writers and directors to discover the critical and more often than not similar ingredients to their story that got them to where they are today to deep dive that uncovers events in moments that surprise even our guests. We're not only draw solid blueprint of success from each artist that can be applied to your own personal journey. We structure the narrative of the artist's own. Hollywood legend. Check out the cliff. Dorfman show wherever you get your podcast to join. Us Live daily three thirty. Pm Pacific for stuck at home with cliff. Jason on the Star Burns Audio Youtube. Page if you don't like it I will personally send you all of my overdue library books from High School along with the thank you note for the lovely Englander. This is so stupid but when I was a kid I went to me and my cousins one of our hobbies this is before kids had phones and Video Games and newspapers to entertain them. We we had the buoy at books at the library and one of the books would celebrities mailing addresses. And we just we just mailed every we sent letters. We mail do as many celebrities as we could write out and Clint Eastwood wrote me back with an autographed picture of him that I that's pretty tight. I didn't even get it was him in A. I had a framed picture of a reba. Mcentire too but I won that at a carnival. I I know what you're thinking. Another Eastwood sent that back to Yeah so I've always had a a small amount of respect for for him because of that also John Travolta sure that was. I feel like Clint Eastwood did it personally. But John Travolta feeling hired somebody. Yeah I mean. I don't see how Clint Eastwood doing it. Like the desk. Abe Lincoln received the memo to war is over on this house rolling the car up on the thing and he's still makes. Adam drivers sit there and received the Telegraph speaking of Richard Jewel. Tommy's never seen Richard Jewel. Tommy you're going to cast it up however you want it. You wrote the script here of what you assume Richard Jewel is about. Yes and I'll go ahead and you let us know you'd like to so should I do the stage directions then and yeah? You can do the wall to wall there okay. I'll do the while Tom. I'm going to have you be Richard Jewel. Okay Kyle. You'RE GONNA play every other part. Does that work they works? And let's all pretend that no one's done a chair joke before early perfect. The no one's on a chair job before it's Oh you joke what nevermind. Nevermind airs and chairs at nearly was Clint Eastwood's Richard Jewel. Clint Eastwood Film. Interior Richard Jewell's house. Whatever year. Those Olympics were we open on our hero Richard Jewel. Who was a Chubby and mustache? Man of the people. The American people God's people jewel is sleeping on his back and his arms are spread out so it almost looks like he is being crucified. Like some sort of Christ figure oliver sudden jolts up as if from a bad dream and looks at his alarm clock. Oh No I am late for the Olympics. Richard quickly get dressed and puts on security guard outfit. His Mom Kathy Bates calls from downstairs. Richard Are you hungry? I don't know why who can't he basis leaning into being missed out fire briefly. Who which often hungry. I Made American breakfast. No mom I have to go. Today is the day of the Olympics. Richard Exits his room and falls down the stairs hitting his head on every state. Richard Be careful here before you go. I want you to have this. She handed him a gun. Mom I already have a gun on my waist band sweetie. This is the Olympics. There will be non-americans everywhere. Having to guns on you is just responsible. Okay Mommy I'll take this but I have to go just remembered. Be Very careful. There will be a lot of media there and the media loves to bring down beautiful white men like you Richard. It'll be fun isolated clip Richard Exits the house. He lives on the porch steps and rolls all the way to his car gets in and heads to the Olympics exterior the Olympics. Richard Jewel walks around the grounds of the Olympics. While eating a corn dog seeing people from different countries whenever he does the score becomes a version of the type of music associated with that country. Except it's really sinister to let you know that they're inherently evil since they're not from America. Which true I'd I say the Olympics really I international games there make sure I'm a good security guard today to keep my countrymen. Save my countrymen from America's safe. Good thing I brought to guns. Richard continues to patrol the Olympic Village and field. He decides to scope out the her discuss about the hurdles and the track and field section any trips over every single one in order. That's okay America is safe. He pulls another corn dog from his pocket but then he is struck by an intense realization. This corn dog is only Luke. Warm Richard is spreading panic. He has no idea what to do. He starts going to various fields and events looking for somewhere to heat up as corn dog. He's hit by shot put in the got a long jumper jumps over him. He accidentally walks off the diving board and belly flops. He's still can't find somewhere to heat up his corn dog which is now covered in chlorine and he has growing as it seems like a man in American cannot catch a break. You have to read the sniper deep in character Tommy. I saw your face realize you were going to read the type I could see you make. The choice of man is light up in America. He is toweling off and walking around when all of a sudden you. Here's a mysterious ticking noise. Richard is terrified but then he has an epiphany he recognizes. The noise is the timer from a toaster oven. He Russia's over and finds a mysterious black bag where the ticking tickets coming from the only markings on the bag are five words Richard Decides. He will remember those words no matter what who keeps a toaster oven. The nondescript black bag zips the bag and realizes that it's not a toaster oven. It's a bomb. He still tries to stick the corn dog in but then realizes that won't work. Richard Screams everyone back away. He gets on his walkie talkie but it isn't working probably interference from the Russians. He needs to tell his boss about the bomb and realizes the only way to do it is to run. He takes off sprinting towards boss while on the way there he accidentally enters the archery field and is hitting the head every single ero. He finally gets to the office. Oh my God what happened to your head. It looks like some sort of Crown Thorns Richard polls the arrows out of his forehead and drops them on his bosses desk. There's a bag in the North pavilion. And it's got a bomb and it also. The bag had some words on it. They said I don't care what the bag said. I'm calling the bomb squad. He pulls out his foam pavilion. Black bag diffuse it and let everyone know Richard Jewel did nothing wrong. It's been diffused. Richard you are an American Hero. No way the media or FBI tries to take you down. Thank you does. I just got one question. What's that the heck is the dawn? Microwave studio audience erupts in laughter and applause fixed right here title card one hour later. Interior shared office of the FBI and the media. What looks like a typical office building contains two of the most sinister forces known demand on the wall. There is a cork board labeled great American heroes to tarnish with pictures of great Americans like Ronald Reagan and Grandpa Torino dividing line on the carpet on one side is the media and on the other side of the FBI. John Draper Anna Livia. Wild not sit on either side of the line Jordan. Be John Analyst. John you see this story about the security guard at the Olympics. Oh No I don't watch sports. I Read Books. About Feminism. You Might WanNa see this. They're calling this guy. Richard Jewel in American hero. I pay good money to see him down. I like that idea. I hate it when a man is a hero me and the media will take him down. What's in it for US DOTS? That's what the money is for downs. Good I'll sleep with you to get more information kind of thing. Us MEDIA WOMEN DO OKAY. A steamy seven-minute sex scene between them but the sinister foreign music from before plays so you know that the sexist Interior Jewel House Kathy Richard Richard. I'm so proud of you for being an American hero. If for being my son Richard. Thank you mom. And hopefully no one takes this moment away from us. I brought some water for us to celebrate. Can't feed looks at the glass shocked this water. This is wine Richard trucks. I'm going to turn the TV on turn on the TV and see what's happening in the news. He turned on the TV newscaster. We have two top stories today story. One there's a new dance called the Macarena Story to according to the media. The security guard hero. Richard Jewel actually planted the bomb at the Olympics. According to the media. Fbi is investigating and if their suspicions. All right Mr Jill will have to learn the Macarena in jail. Kathy turn the TV off quickly. How could they do this to my boy my hero? Why would the media say those things? Mama is like they take some sick joy in taking downgrade American white. Happy looks out the window and realizes there are sixty style hippies protesting on the lawn. Call Your Room. Richard goes to his room. Can I give that a new read? I I didn't want. She came off mad about him. I let me do it as she's mad about the hippies will you give me the lead in line again? He looks out the window and realizes there are sixty hippies protesting on the law. Go to your room. Richard goes to his room and starts talking to his chair which is a normal thing for a man to do. Oh chair I was just sacrificing myself to keep people safe. Why won't they let me be a hero? Which awed stay strong? You are American. He's a knock on the bedroom door with Kathy Bates the FBI and the media are here to talk to you. They said that they're giving you one chance to defend yourself. This is your chance to set the record straight. So you'll be a hero again now. I want to make sure you don't get violent so I'm going to tie you to your bed. She ties Richard to his bed. She then gets blocks of wood. And a big hammer and hobbles. Richard Screams out in agony. No sorry Richard as your mother. I M your biggest fan and I couldn't risk you leaving with FBI. In I understand that is why you're a good mom. Livia and John. Enter the bedroom. Okay how boy here we go. Well these are not the kind of bedrooms we have in New York in Hollywood. Are you a simple man and therefore you are Oh yours implemented therefore you are bad right to frame you now reveal. Let's give them a chance. Richard how can you prove you just found the bombs and didn't set them yourself. Richard is silent. See I knew it. He has scum and it is good. We took him down. Richard Richard. Tell them tell them the five words on the bag. Five words the bomb squad and FBI did not read the five words on the bag. Only I noticed them because I am the true hero. The bag said proper not of Osa Osama bin Laden therefore I am innocent and Osama bin Laden is guilty. I am going to join seal team six on Day so I can kill him. Oh my God what have we done? He is a hero. Sorry Richard at turns out. Fbi In media are bad and you are the true hero. I'd like to buy you coke. I cannot drink coke I am dying. Richard died title three days later. Richards bedroom I am alive again and a hero again. Oh good hey Richard I wanna teach you new day. It's called the mock arena. John and Lydia immediately jump up from their chairs. They've been there the whole time. CaN'T WE DO THE MACARENA TO. I don't know can you? You've leaps out of bed and all four start dancing the mock arena the camera pans up to heaven. God and Uncle Sam they are doing the arena to the music is really gonNA help man. It always seems to go. I mean I've always said Tom. Thinking using Richard Jewell's famous Jersey accent. I I will say I wanted to change that three lines in I ever. I like that your your take on the character was. He's melting during the movie. I drifted between. There was a minute where I almost went danny callous homer from season. One niece next man in there that I wish terrorist threats on trains use the next. I just wanted you to know is we can read on that one line. I almost estimated to have a whole new read on the whole. I don't think I would like to commend you. Tommy on putting out a script more subtly anti-media than what I imagine the movie actually. At least you gave them an office. I would imagine media members in Clint Eastwood's Richard Jewel probably live in a dumpster. Well there was a controversy that I remember reading about. I didn't see the movie. But there was a real woman who has a reporter that he had sleep with someone for information where they got sued. Because she didn't do that and she was a real person and it was like. You can't just put that in the movie when it's like a very bad thing it's like a shop and a lot of movies with journalists and it's like one of the biggest rule like you can't sleep with sources that's like one of the biggest like nos in journalism. Yeah it's push you in front of a train and then become president. I don't always up to now. Seems like a nice guy though? Like let's be frank talk about sleeping want someone underwood we of course are talking about. Molly's game I think it's great. I WANNA play. We got a new game on the podcast that I want to try with guys. Experimental game to see how it works here. It's going to be influenced by my algorithm online but this game is called. How many movies from this specific category on Netflix? Do you think you can name? We'll take turns last man standing last person standing wins so they have to be currently streaming on Netflix on Netflix. Right now right before the podcast on the net flicks that I always use and I looked at a category and there are thirty five movies under that category currently streaming on Netflix. I'm going to tell you the category you'll go back forth each naming one movie under that category and we'll see who can survive last. Here's my question though. Like 'cause it's pretty specific. Which movies are on Netflix? And in that category. So what if we immediately fuck it up over? Then we move onto a new game. Okay okay good quote thirty five and I tried to do a vague one. I feel like now a lot of time on Netflix And we'RE GONNA GO EASY. So so tom you'll pick I and we're going to see who can end up in. The category is critically acclaimed films critically acclaimed go in the. I just assume that it's on Netflix. The Godfather it is not on net flicks. There we go. You can name any of the thirty. Five critically acclaimed films on Netflix. You win this game. And the only iteration it'll ever have PAN's labyrinth. Also not on Netflix citizens. I watched that movie on Netflix. Two weeks ago also. It is not on that list. It was so critically acclaimed thirty. Five movies is a very limited pool. Netflix flicks definitely doesn't skew this. We're thinking of only the cream of the crop like of books ant man versus the Wasp Klay Movies that are universally beloved way better than here's the godfather or Pan's labyrinth. We've got some other ones in here. A secret love. I've never heard of the half of it. I've never heard of You know the movies. I haven't heard the hassle remember forever. Yeah the title was just going to be of it. Can I give you a possible fix for this game? If the rams the one one pay the deflate. Footballs say what if you did we? I have this list of movies. That are on. Netflix critically acclaimed. Then give us a church. Gives us a choice between two movies? One is on that list and one is not and we have to guess which I think another way could be. I have a list of twenty movies on Net flicks which of these five or on the critically acclaimed okay. Yeah there we go. There's something also on this list naked gun. Hey that's only it'll watch that my buddy that I heard he runs away with it. Okay we'll back into a tried and true game that we have on here. This game is called build. The perfect movie depict movie. Yes you just you just have to pretend that the music is playing added in afterwards this is Tommy McNamara Andy Fresco specialty game because at one time we got one hundred percent got one hundred percent. Perfect movie I actually have. Someone submitted me some build the perfect movies. Let me find them in here. Not some person who with some new categories for them if that makes sense so you guys the first thing we're going to try and do we know how it works if you're listening. I'm going to explain it idea. Build the perfect movies. I will give a category to Tommy into Tom and they will each have to pick two movies from that. Category whose rotten tomatoes score is adds up to as close to one hundred as possible without going prices. Right rules apply. They'll both pick one. We'll recap the scores double second. We'll see who's closest. What if we did like critically acclaimed movies on Netflix? Six can't find a list of those anywhere so how long it took me. To screen five net flicks seven net flicks. Girls were put together into one image. All right if we have a big card for the podcast Kyle puts a lot of effort into a scrap. Bit is the free space so not super super worried about it all right here. We go first category for building the perfect movie The bigger and try and build the perfect movie where any part of it takes place in space speaking free space perfect movie. Any part of it takes place space. And so Tommy. You'll pick I. You're a writer I will go with space balls. Sorry I was actually a shot on a sound okay. That new. Tom Cruise movies some documentaries if you believe the interest okay. Tom Your first movie. I'm GonNa go with the movie. I'm GonNa go with the movie called space cowboys all right. Let's review space balls. Tommy fifty seven percent on rotten tomatoes. You're looking for a forty three looking for forty three forty three united forty-three weird prequel words. People arriving safely Tom. Seventy eight percent for cowboys. I thought it was terrible. I thought or something sane. So you're looking for twenty two twenty two and will pick first time fixers. What is that Natalie Portman Movie? That just came out fuck or talking annihilation. No no no no and Lucy in the sky with diamonds pick. That's what it is lucy in the sky with diamonds and your shirt. She goes high enough in the sky. Just called Lucy in the sky. Don't worry we'll know what's GONNA suck. I'm probably never going to go back and add music all right Twenty percents base cow. You're looking for we have space cowboys and seventy eight. I think I'M GONNA go with Pluto. Nash who I here. We go space balls space balls fifty seven percent. Lucy in the sky twenty two. So we're looking at us. Seventy nine seventy nine total cowboys. Seventy eight percents man Pluto Nash. Four Oh yeah. Eighty two percent eighty two percent so space space cowboys the Pluto Nash. What was your what was your. What was Lucy in the sky? Twenty two if I got that on your own. We donate a thousand dollars to charity. Doesn't put on inside his own body. Am I thinking of their own movie? Critically acclaimed ant man versus the wasp. Maybe in my head when I I'm going to be totally honest. I have not seen a man on the moon. The whole movie is set on the Moon Moon Instinct. The Moon is on ears. Folks mean one of my favorite jokes that I wrote was was just about how the Apollo thirteen that was wrote that the whole thing was actually shot on a sound stage next category next category with one. Okay someone's a little be forgetting Tommy. Challenging my answer in his body deeply she needs read just say Pootie the opposite of before and after Jones. That's I think that's also trying to think of that Yeah I've I've gotten this very movies mixed up now. We looking for this next category. We're going to call is called the oceans one hundred and eleven. You'll have to pick two movies. That star someone who is in Ocean's eleven percent must add up close to one hundred and eleven as possible. This one hundred eleven is a good one so the this they said this end. This is a great idea for movie. Ocean's one hundred eleven tom your first. Because you're the Victor Tommy. You can go whenever the guy who gets around answer is just for clerics is names in those movies no okay. I don't know why I thought that anyway doesn't matter mission impossible yeah. I know it's going with this but anyway I'm GonNa go with a little movie called step. Mom Julia Roberts great all right Tommy. I one for Ocean's one hundred and eleven. I'm going to go with downsizing the Matt Damon Film sizing the Alexander Payne Flop. Yeah it's crazy 'cause even on the poster. They spelled his last name differently. Just see you knew what to expect. Okay here we go step mom Julia Roberts. Forty five percent and forty five percents. You're looking for a sixty six sixty six to one hundred and eleven downsizing forty eight percent. Wow Sixty three sixty three percents and so calm. You'll pick. I was stepping on. I'm looking for something that's around. Sorry how much do I need? Six to forty six or forty six or sixty six sixty six looking for sixty six. Okay okay by going to a lot of the people in the oceans movies have been in a lot of sixty to seventy five so I feel like yeah. I know Matt Damon is talented. Mister Ripley right yes. I'll do that all right downsizing. Forty eight percent. So we're looking for sixty three zero point. I'm going to go with Bernie Mac and transformers Berbick here. We go here. We go transformers movie to actually type in movie. That's how you know it's an entity even talk with step. Mom I like did I type in step mom and then turn on the Google safe. Search is so hard to find hero. Transformers okay boom downsizing and forty. Eight percent transformers two thousand seven fifty eight hundred six. It's a good Ocean's eleven to want one eleven well done Tommy. Everyone knows what percent that is. And it's not just the calculator I have pulled up five point. Four five nine four five nine percent are here we go? We've got to be a one six. We have stepmom forty-five talented Mister Ripley. Eighty three what fucked over. I thought that Kinda sucks but I I'm a down man. He's more talented than you think. Yeah wasn't called a talented mister. Ripley should was the one I if if it was the way here if yeah if step mom was way higher I was going to go with stuck on you and now I wish I had I really and truly the first time in history someone wishes had gone with stuck on. I think I'm the only person who's seen that movie like three times. I wasn't completely with you until the end when he said three times doing tiebreaker. We're going to your tiebreaker. This is the movie with weed in it a movie with weed in it. Okay am I going I? This time I was going to try and do a funny percent but I'm not sure you could find movies that up to four hundred twenty. I don't think that's possible. Tommy you are first. We're going to movies with Weeden. Them rotten tomatoes score is up. He was close to one hundred percents possible without going over the recent film. That is the gentlemen all about weed not a great movie. Matthew mcconaughey is where it looks like they cast. If based on a post I would rather just looked at the poster who is that Guy Ritchie. It it's called the gentlemen and it's got a budget due to slick back hair and leather jackets on it. And as I was walking out of the theater this comes up to me who I didn't go. We'll that wasn't exactly What was the famous Guy Ritchie movie? Oh walks pu stock. That wasn't exactly lack. Stuck in to smoking like what that gets home and he's like theater. They didn't show the movie. I thought they were GONNA show. I thought I was going to screening of lock stock and two smoking barrels and then I left. This guy was no help so we have the gentleman to movies with in them. I'm going with Grandma's boy. Oh there's so much. I Love Grandma's boy Nick Swenson. It's so funny and Grandma's boy is so funny it it's one of those movies where the cartoon characters still play enough. Do you know what I mean. Like the guy who works there? That's just basically a robot autistic It's still funny to me. It's not so please guys in a bunch of Shit. He's really funny too. I can't Oh you mean guy who lost who unfortunately probably has to audition for stuff. Zach Woods gets Yes yes absolutely. He's still funny and got grandma's boy in the first movie. The gentleman seventy four. God It Second Movie Gentlemen. Grandma's boy sixteen sixteen percent or so Tommy Yoga for twenty six time. You're looking for a four. Yes and Tom you will be picking I. I'm picking I guess then I'm GonNa go with Pineapple Express their we keep saying. I already kind of regret that I said I'll stay. You can switch it up until Tommy picks l think until he bakes fix until he picks Okay we wait until after I pick or are you trying to do before? I'm trying to pick the half-baked. Why did I go? What is half-baked? Harvests oh I did a recipe from their computer automatically. Took me to some website are here. We go grandma's boys sixteen percent pineapple express sixty eight percent looking at an eighty four and eighty four. I'm going to be over. I can feel it. I don't gentleman's seventy four percent. Seventy eight is in campaign is lower than you think. Twenty you nailed it nine. Percents talk about getting too high. I shouldn't have hit the Damn Bong. Put It on the bag with the happy face close. Who Likes the gentlemen? See Gentlemen. Now you don't see in baby you look closer. We're both in the gentlemen. Three poster looks like a bad podcast. I got it mixed. I was just looking at it because I got into an argument with where I was completely wrong where I said that it was the Prequel to the Kings Been True. Certainly not because it looks and feels like it would be well. There's there is a prequel to kingsman coming out and I just I got. I got the titles mixed up seeing those kingsman movies but enjoy verse Kingsman. I can't remember. I think the second one might not be great at. I didn't see it's even want to think of hemispheric channing. Tatum joins the gang. I don't even remember. I can't remember if I saw which is a bad sign but I loved the first one. I really had a good time in it I enjoy. Yeah the cast great very great time all right well Tommy. You have a chance here to maybe tie our overall we have three before and after's get ready to be four three before and after that we're going to do both before and after work to movies have been smashed into one movie review. The news much together plot. You told me this Michigan Title Port Mino- is out there. Berman Portmanteau 's they can be all sorts of things. Were you gonNA say which is why Was it why people like the low angle shot from Tarantino movie. Tarantino's Portman Tarintino Cast Natalie. Portman Portman Vive prevent FOTA. Yeah there we go. I'm so mad fucking couldn't pull Tarantino's name that's okay. Know he will know and be mad but look I are here. We go three of them so they can be all sorts of things wolf of Wall Street. saving private Silverman for Argo. There's lots of ways to combine them including infuriatingly. These ones were user submitted. Here WE GO I. One in Alien Armada invades earth and alters life as we know it including eliminating any trace of the world's most popular bands music. Oh yes yesterday await neither of you right. You both had one of them shit. An Alien Armada so not zombies invades earth. Oh Yeah yes dependence yesterday. Independent yesterday art. I was thinking the entire time until you said yesterday part and then I fucking went so it's three to one right now. Three to one in the overall score you gotTa really rally these off to end in a tie and then it's just sort of a tie next one after scrounging to get by on the streets. An Indian teenager competes on a game show with the help of a sport playing canine millionaire. But Nice you can tell. I just found the harmonica last one last one. After years of mother daughter tension a New York. Playwright is brought back home owners. Best friends to explain her mother's difficult past when she was trying to compete in the Olympics amidst abuse and her husband's interference. It's I Tanya Mom Night Tanya Tanya I'm too you can use them other. Dr Attention. Mother brought New York. Playwright is brought back home by her mother's best friends to explain her. Mother's difficult past Blah Blah Blah Blah. Blah I just don't know the first movie I taen. Ha All right. You guys ready is it on. It's actually just the lyrics to the beginning of the Lion King. We're looking for divine secrets of the Eitan. Ya Ya Sisterhood. Oh God never would have gone bad. I really hate getting stumped on to. I know I like the other one. It was just a speed thing where I was trying to think of slumdog because I used to call myself that come dog millionaire and then I was able to get this pretty quickly and then you really should up with. That really went down. I was busy in memory lane if you if you see my behind. My reality was lake. Slumdog millionaire where you asked a question and then I just flashed back to a here. We go we'll do one quick half TV half movie to see Tommy tied up to end everything quick. Quick Quick a movie about aliens and nothing at all. Signed Phone Seinfeld Seinfeld. Thank God to live in the world if you hadn't got signs all of the TV ones are great. I'm going to tell TV movie. These are submitted by Max. Seinfeld the the face office thirty rocky community. Nature Mutant Ninja Turtles V. Prevent Data Parks and recreation blurs lists the legend of bagger Vance Sunny in Philadelphia. Pa All good but thank you guys Going on here Tom for coming in reading parts hanging out of course again. I apologized for the choice I made in that script. That's we're cutting the script out like out. Went Top till till till everyone about you and Tommy's podcast wrote. Go standby your band. The podcasts were me and Tommy have comedians on defend music. People make fun of like this week we had Christie Cello defending new kids on the block. We Jimmy Pardo recently. We've Kyle layers great show that kyle kinane baton Oswald more get in there and also check out my other podcasts. Stand up with Tom. Gar On comedy Central Right play my favorites clips that comedy central heads. Great thank you and Tommy Telephone what you had. You had a podcast. Just come out yes. We're actually we're going to play a clip from it. After time he says. I want to preface the clip. So time he doesn't have to like pitch like this whole thing was. I wanted to play clip. Because I think it's very it's funny and you're GonNa like it and talk podcast. We're GONNA end the episode with a clip from it. So here Tommy Pichit. Yeah so it's called My spectacular life a memoir in the key of storytelling. It's a fictional narrative podcast. It's a memoir of the singer. Songwriter named Thomas rose at six episodes islanders. Twenty minutes and a lot of jokes. I think you'll like it if you give it a shot. Is The wall that clip? Now thank you guys for listening I hope you enjoy that. And and thank you guys for coming on the PODCAST. Thank you always deal tiles so Before we get out of here we teased it a little bit. In the episode a little bit at the beginning but Tommy has a new podcast called spectacular life and it is a memoir in the key of storytelling Is the audio book. Tell all of a legendary singer songwriter. Thomas Rose let's say narrative fiction comedy. Podcast Tommy wrote himself jokes music using only his memories in his piano. He takes you on an incredible journey going from small town in the Midwest to the Grammy's and beyond Tommy it's only six episodes. They're all under twenty minutes. Check it out. It's called my spectacular life and it's fun narrative comedy podcasts. From Tommy who you just listen to so here enjoyed clip. You might be wondering who is this. You probably recognize this voice but maybe you can place it or maybe not. When I'm speaking but let me ask you a question. Do Take that again at it. Point here start re recording now. Do you recognize this is no? That's right it's me. Thomas rose the famous singer piano men and memoir ist now. This is the first audiobook for my first memoir is spectacular life a memoir in the key of storytelling by Thomas rose. I decided to release it. Only in audio book form because it's better for the environment and because I'm functionally illiterate. My teachers always tried to get me to read but I would say hey. There's no time to learn to read. When you're GONNA be famous. They loved me back then. The final reason I've chosen this audio book format is. You're not just getting me. You're getting me a with my piano. Here's a question was the last time the Da Vinci Code did this circuit Dan Brown starving podcast network.

Victor Tommy Richard Jewel Clint Eastwood kyle Tommy McNamara Kathy Richard Richard Tom Your Olympics Tommy he Netflix Tom Google Tommy Mac FBI Dick Jewel Tim Robinson US Kathy Bates Eagles
Why does rain only come from grey clouds?

Imagine This

08:02 min | 2 years ago

Why does rain only come from grey clouds?

"This is an ABC putt cost. Hello? My name's Brie and I don't know what the weather is like where you are today, but where I am, it's raining. Can you imagine that it's raining outside. Can you hear the sound of the rain filling up buckets or the pita patter of raindrops on the roof. Where does the Rhine come from. If. In sky clown. Yeah, awaren- cloud. Yes. The rain falls from rain clouds up in the sky and today on. Imagine this four year old. Fiona has noticed something about the color of a rain cloud. Why does rain come from Greg class at what cloud. Why does brain come from clouds that are gray and not? Why do you think someone paints them different colors. He does a cloud get to choose what color it is. Now, honor who we can ask. My friend, Robin jewel is a weather scientist. She's from the bureau of meteorology. Let's find out if she wants to be on the shy, hey, Robin, Highbury. Do you wanna come and talk to us about clouds? Absolutely. Right now, I know you haven't been on the show before. Do you get a little bit nervous when you do something new? Yeah, if that k. you don't have to base skid. Yeah, we're all new at something and I think you're gonna do just great. I. What was that if get learning to. Lightning storms kinda make me a little bit nervous. Just look at the size of that fluffy gray cloud over there. What do you call that? Robin, Cumulus. Nimbus accumulate Nimbus. Yes, that sounds like a different language Bray. Do you know how to speak cloud? No, I don't. We have different names for different clouds. What's a Cumulus? It's a fluffy cloud. It often looks like cutting fairy floss. A Cumulus that Raines is called accumulate Nimbus son name when cloud Stotts writing recall it Nimbus cloud. Well, Nimbus cloud is a rain cloud. Yes. Can you say Nimbus English, so won't come is a rain cloud and Nimbus. It's. Is a glee, but some clouds are also what right. Cloud St. the yeah. Why? Snow? So some clouds watch and some clouds gray, but are they both made out of the same thing? What is a cloud made out of anyway, it's neither of all made from what what. That fluffy clouds today is made out of water. That's right. Well, how does that happen? Even though we can't see it, these water in the air. When the gets really cold and it gets really cold when you go high in the sky, the invisible water can turn into a water droplet. If lots of air gets cold and lots of water droplets appear, this makes cloud and then it's not invisible anymore. Can you say it three? Oh yeah. That cloud just magically appeared out of thin. It kind of looks like missed just floating up in the sky. Oh, it does. Oh, look now it's turning into a bunny rabbit DC it's EADS. Oh, I think I can. What do you see when you look at the clouds since sound. Dolphin. Oh, yeah, I can see a dolphin. What about that cloud either? They're only in chip it does. He looks like the, I lean cheap because this go cloud. Oh, yeah. And it looks like that cloud is flying through the sky. Clouds move and they change shape and sometimes they get Beka, but how do they turn from white to gray when it gets colder, the water droplets get bigger, then they start crashing into each other. Class. And I joined together to make even bigger droplets. The water drops bump into each other. And join together when a cloud has lots of water droplets. And these drops a really big all that water blocks the sun and the cloud goes doc on the bottom. So great clouds are like shadows and these clouds away. Rain comes from, they are like shut-ins big doc, fluffy shedders. So what the rain come from white clouds because white clouds don't have enough water in them. So only the gray clouds of the rainy clouds. Yeah, Nimbus a rain cloud. Hey, it's raining, you know what? That means he get wreck. Well, yes. Sometimes you do get rained on bought rain is where we get our water from it fills up how dams and our water tanks, and it gives out Gaden a good drink and after the rain there, rain, puddles creek, brave, you come on, let's go sloshing paddles. Have you ever lost in rain, puddles with your gumboots on. Flashing light. Sofia. All clouds a made from water and ice, but when clouds can form of water and those water droplets get really big, they block the light from the sun, and I make a cloud shadow that turns gray. And if those gray clouds get really heavy and full of lots of drops of water, the drops fall to the ground and make rain. And sometimes if the sun is shining and the rain is falling. You might be lucky enough to see a rainbow in the sky. It's cloudy and some. Ought to sky and read lender pink, angry, and hour. Imagine this is produced by me. Brianna pay Diesen and he's a co production between the conversation, an ABC kids. Listen, additional sound and mastering for this episode is by Russell stifled to he more episodes of imagine these plus a range of stories and music for young children. Ten lied. The ABC kids listen up.

Robin jewel ABC Nimbus Brie ABC bureau of meteorology Fiona scientist Beka Russell Sofia Gaden Raines Brianna Diesen four year
Avengers: Endgame Oscar Campaign Begins, But No Robert Downey Jr. - Movie Talk

Collider Movie Talk

50:16 min | 11 months ago

Avengers: Endgame Oscar Campaign Begins, But No Robert Downey Jr. - Movie Talk

"Thank you for listening to this podcast one production available on Apple podcasts and podcast one on today's show. Tom Holland's swoops in to save Spiderman. We're asking the question how strong is the force and then on top of that Robert Downey junior not included on Disney's endgame Oscar campaign. What's up with that? Hello everyone I am your host ferry number of and I am so excited to be joined by jae-in Vinnie on today's show. We've got some great discussions ahead but first we've got to get to our call sheet and the first item on today's list is this Tom Holland story so as we've discussed us before Sony and Disney did reach an agreement to keep Spiderman in the MC you and now teach ours reporting. Tom Holland himself was actually instrumental in and bringing both sides back to the negotiating table apparently using his starring role in Sony's upcoming uncharted movie as leverage to convince Sony Chair. Tom Rothman to reengage with Disney. Holland even reportedly reached out to Disney CEO Bob Eiger as well and stressed how upset fans were over over the splits next up on our call she we've got yet another exclusive on star wars the rise of Skywalker from Empire magazine there November issue specifically. Here's what writer Chris Tero said about the two questions driving the film. One of them is simple. One Who is ray which is a question that people people not only wonder about quite literally but wonder about in the spiritual sense how can ray become the spiritual heir to the Djeddai we kept coming back to who is ray and how can we give the most satisfying answer to that not only factually because obviously people are interested in whether there's more to be learned of race story but more importantly who who is she as a character. How will she find the courage and will the inner strength and power to carry on what she's inherited? The second one is how strong is is the force. What is the force and how strong is the forest? Those two things were really important next up on our call she today. This is an interesting story here so during a Q. and A. With the G. Q. UK Matt Damon said that he was actually offered the role of Jake Sully in Avatar by James Cameron who was also going to give him a hefty percentage of the film's profits Damon then confirmed that he was going to be offered ten percents of the Gross Qatar which then tallied up themselves to total two hundred and fifty million dollars. You could find the full quotes on this story on COLLIDER DOT COM now. We're moving on over to a new trailer that dropped this morning. One or brothers just unveiled at the trailer for Clint Eastwood's latest Richard Jewel. The movie tells the true story of the title Security Guard Guard who discovered the plot that resulted in the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta after the event he was considered a prime suspect and painted as guilty until proven innocent and by the media despite the fact that he helped victims. We're going to discuss our thoughts on this trailer later in today's show similarly. We're also going to discuss this next story Disney. His knee officially launched its four your consideration website for twenty nine thousand nine hundred films. Anna vendors endgame is of course being pushed and in a whole bunch categories those categories Gorey's include best picture best director best adapted screenplay Best Cinematography best original score best film editing best production design best costume design best makeup and hairstyling best sound mixing best sound editing and best visual effects. That's a lot right there but what's missing Robert Downey. Junior best actor is not on the list. We're GONNA discuss that very soon. But first we got to show you a little clip from Steve's interview with Bong Jun.. Ho who of course is the director of parasite and here. He talks to see about his next x project. Check it out. I love your movies. I obviously cannot wait to see what you're GONNA do next. Can you share what you might be working on M. It you to here's why is Katie United politician at your desire to get on my Lord. I you know what I seek to win and Tyron parasitism do his as you might say seven hundred no on the net gun complain why hall on my John Capone that will learn to take on new targets on what these uptake Geico than the coochie optimal yet can hold on the community and we want them to you touched union. They're not take a CNN. I could talk about them. Through trauma such took in so I had a great time working on parasites so I want to work on films on the scale of parasite right and mother one in Korean and English the Korean project as kind of like a horror film of course. It's not as you know I'm working on it so the genres will all be mixed but if you had to choose genre it would be along the lines of poor and for the English project it began with a a news article I randomly came across on CNN A and two thousand sixteen It's a small realistic drama piece all right guys. It's that time of the show I get to introduce my panelists for the day J and vinnie welcome to the table. Thank you for having me. I'm very happy to be here. I don't know what's camera. I'm looking at I'm looking at the Y. When they're looking we haven't played that game even a while filming this could be back? This is my second movie talk. I thought I would do one and they'd be like wow that's that's why they don't let them talk. We've got some lighter topics today which is which is always nice for a change so let's get the first one yeah well all right well. I mean you know what I mean. Maybe some spends all right because I know but he like. He's worth it. He's worth it. I'm telling you that a kid just in case case I sneeze. You guys have all been warned all right topic number. One day that we're going to discuss. Are Those Star Wars quotes so we've got those two key questions. which are you know who who is ray and also how powerful is the four so I wanNA focus on the right question first? What do you think is going to be the key to defining her because there are so many things that could be in play in rise of Skywalker and I know it could be a number of answers to this question but if you could pick that one thing that is really going to put her into focus? Is it going to be you know finding out more batters past and her parents isn't going to be more about her relationship for the forest. Where do you guys betting on from for me? I'm betting on her past and parents because we have to excuse us in the last Jedi your parents were nobody feels like a throwaway. I feel like we need to discover that right because this way we know how she can next with everything instead of just saying here's a random player. The now has the force because we've been always introduce people that have some significance somehow now some way so I think we need to know that more than anything else. I'm GonNa Disagree Completely GonNa Save so the saying no no. I I feel like with the last Jedi I the thing it did so oh beautiful. It was set up this idea that the forces for everyone that's why we're not appeal. Don't focus enough on that last shot of the random kid who just like forces the broom to himself. I feel like that idea was really beautiful to me. The fact that you could just come from a family of junkers on a desert planet and rise to become this very powerful person and I feel like to be like just getting her. Her Dad is someone her mom is someone would would would take away the message of the last Jedi and and I I know that when people read this quote like here we go. We're going to learn about who raise parents are and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case because that's that's Jj in a nutshell but I think to me. I don't know what I hope it is but I I hope that's not what isn't because that takes away. The power of what what Ryan Johnson did with Russia. I think I'm a little more in line with you. On this one Vinnie I have really taken to that idea that really anybody could use the force or anybody who has those abilities doesn't have to necessarily be tied to the Skywalker family family just saying tied in some way to everything together. Force can be for everyone but there has to be some semblance of who she is why again the Forces for everyone but we know the jar shows and things like that. Where does she fall in line with all of this where to her parents fault because again she was just on a junk planet? You know things like that. So it's like junk planet people can have the forest to descriptors. They're not just to the skywalker family but maybe to force wielding characters that we've seen in the franchise before I like opening up the door to new possibilities abilities and that is kind of what I think. Rise of skywalker is going to be about in general and I think you can do that with the character of Ray without backtracking on what they established with her family because I'm kinda hoping that they really stand their ground with that maybe surprise us with a new way to put that character into focus as far as how she fits into this whole picture and I think it's GonNa wind up being more so about her using what she's been taught by the legend Luke Skywalker and running with that I think it's going to be her taking the lessons. She's learned the thing she's experienced and her carving her own path to move forward because they're not they're going to wrap up the skywalker trilogy. We know that but they're going to wrap it up and land. I think in a new place all I know is no matter what happens we will see probably the last shot or next to last shot ray drinking unpasteurized pasteurize blue milk address rate from the street from the straight straight from it like she has to go forward like Luke did it so cannot they don't want to know it's not even terrified. It's almost conflicted because I don't want to see it but really weren't already one step away from it. I don't know why it should be what makes person like is that is what it should be. Let's loop in this conversation about the force as well because it could go hand in hand with Ray and I'm wondering what you guys are thinking in terms of how powerful the four should be and specifically how we're going to to explore. Do you think that we're gonNA see the limitations of the force in a new way because a spoiler for last jet I we saw the physical limitations that Luke experienced by I trying to project himself and clearly he wasn't able to quite handle it so we're going to see the limits tested in a similar way this time around. I think we'll see the forces. It's a stronger and people can pull more to remember you have people who can channel both the light and the dark side of it so when you learn how to use both together that's what we'll see like the limitations would that can do to somebody because if you are able to use both sides of the forest harness it and directed in one way how powerful is that and how much will that have an effect on someone. What is the question? I think that's Kinda ties into what the title the last Jedi Man. I think we're GONNA see. I don't know we're GONNA still limitations mutations but I think we're GONNA see a new kind of force that sort of something. We've never seen before that that is embodied in Ray because I feel like the title rise skywalker is really hinting at that the era of the jet I is over and we're gonna see something completely different that is somehow embodied in in and I think that ties into the fact that she isn't connected connected to anything it's this new type of Djeddai that might not have been called Jeddah anymore that we're going to be seeing in whatever comes after I'm definitely opening up myself to the idea of Kylo being redeemed but as far as testing the limits of the force go I think that maybe the wind up with the skywalker lineage could be him of all people testing the limits and going too far and succumbing to the power of the forces just random prediction that I came up with the right now on the spot but as far as ray goes I feel like she is going to learn by the example set before her and I I I still think that rise of Skywalker is going to be you know a movie about finding balance in the forest her coming to the understanding that it isn't just about dark versus light. It's about finding a balance between the two and that's where we're GONNA end up. We'll skywalk will become title. I that's what I that's me and a lot of other people leave. The skywalker itself will be title title of type of the type of judgments so like skywalker as in a new term instead of Jeddah or whenever I say the title I keep wanting to say rise of the Skywalker you which I feel like should is much better title but if you'd named it that it would be spoiler for exactly what you're saying so I think I think you're right. I I think I feel like skywalker is going to become a term for this new type of jet. I bet that emerges in this movie because remember the Lucas said the jet I orders dead. He's been doing that so what would a new term for skywalker just to throw this out there now considering everything we just discussed. How do you think that that a Palestinian pity fits into this all both in terms of rain who she's becoming and also with the limitations and the extent of the power and the force I think plan with her head a little bit trying to let her know you can actually again like he's done like he's manipulated would kylo everybody just manipulation throughout all? I think that's the best I feel like we're GONNA and get a an. I trust them to do it but I feel like we're going to get a sort of he was pulling the strings the entire time which could be a a little forced. I didn't even make it could be little I because I feel like you would see a hint of Emperor Powell teen doing that. If if that was always the plan seems like something that just came up with but I I do think his role is going to be as a as the as the puppet master of what's been happening since force a week so puppet master as he has been controlling smoke all along yeah exactly as it is actually a puppet. That's controlling in majority of this scenario. That's been hey apple strings on all of that like literally I was the puppet that has a marionette literally just sitting there I go to believe you bet happening It may be a little sad the other week to realize that when we were discussing Kevin feige coming in to develop his own star wars movie and Likud from the Mc you could we pull input into star awards and I said Andy Circus I mean he's already waiting. I still think Andy Circus in the flesh phenomenal it just like made me teeny bit sad that for a hot second I completely like did not associate with snow in that movie for like a hot just sliced in half unceremoniously just sitting down ceremoniously. Obviously that actual make a big thing of it thing in a battle everything happens in his music in the back orbiter overture and everything just in. I like Darth Maul. He got he got shopping. I rescind my question is ceremoniously going back to two palpitation city. his puppetry puppet mastery here. I'm just trying to Fi- I'm figuring out a way of how to have the balance be reflected acted through ray and Kylo but also have him kind of be pulling the strings in the background and kind of what the what that would mean for the two of them and their journey. I still I feel like the balance is gonNA come down to the two of them overall and I'm curious like who's button. Is he going to push. Who is he going to push closer to the dark side? Is it going to be more his focus guess on Kylo and pulling him over full force and maybe maybe even filling the void left behind for him because I still do feel like the first order definitely Kylo and maybe even Huq's to to a degree. They need an overarching leader because they feel like an absolute mess so oh is city is going to be focused on nudging Kylo further in his direction or is he gonNa turn his sights to ray who may be has more power than we could ever imagine Asia and is he going to try to manipulate her. Maybe both I I feel like the tragedy of Kylo Ren is always been like he's like the past over boy like like ah he's really wants to impress his whoever his masters at the time but there's always someone more powerful him I felt the tragedy of last movie was that he's he's trying for Carlos China's best and then snow is like wow. She's way more powerful than you bring her to bring her to me. I feel like his arc has always been that he's not as powerful as he wants to be and I feel like that's GonNa play in to his adversarial relationship with ray a even if he is being redeemed at the same time because it's not going to be able to process with him that there's someone more powerful than you still think he could be redeemed. Oh Yeah I'm I'm like pretty team team redeem. I feel like that's that's the rover going down I. I don't know if it's going to be a romantic angle. I I wouldn't mind seeing seeing them kiss. I wouldn't eat it. I I know there's a lot of a lot more graphic theories out there on the Internet but I'm like I feel I really don't but usually a radio is a thing yeah so thing is the thing and just US mentioning it. They have attracted them to but I think they're gonNA. They're gonNA he's it they're going to they're going to use that a desire that a lot of people have seen that to play with their relationship. I think they're already kind of did when when he just popped up shirtless in the forest in which was like I I know it's purple Wisey shirtless but then it's been two years since the movie came out and then people sort of come around to the idea that like you know that that that might be the road we're going down and I think they're gonNA play with that idea to build the relationship between East and we finally see Star War for sex yeah finally go. She'll know maybe he just likes to hang out shirtless Shirley. We now pull it is in the vacuum space. You don't hang out you don't think ship got heaters leg up just like talking about the mechanics of his ship right now got a cutbacks. It's a gigantic star Starship Ivy League most of my Star Wars there is at this point are all reverse engineering from me deciding whether or not I think Kylo is going to be redeemed and I think I don't think it's a guarantee that he's going to survive but I do think the road they've been heading down is that he will be redeemed and it's tough because they get a similar way that Atkins redeemed and I think a lot of it is Adam driver. I mean he's just I. It's one of those situations where it's kind of like the Stephen Stranger things situation where he came in as this harbor character and then the actor was just so personable unlike the sort of wrote him to be redeemed out on driver put in such a layered tortured performance that people even if it wasn't the case it wasn't it wasn't what they wanted. People like I feel bad for that guy even as he was committing all these horrible space crimes people were like but he's a tragic character the way you put it almost makes may really excited for the potential acting challenge that could come with redeeming a character that killed his father yeah that that that was the surprising rising with that was one of the most rewarding things about this new trilogy is that the cast that they've brought brought in has really elevated even the weaker parts of the new trilogy and I feel like one of the no matter what happens with this new trilogy we have these this Newcastle's new characters that are equally as as as we'll become as iconic as the original cast. I would hope that's the legacy they lead later in thirty here. We got to consider that as well the angles today every angle today won't be around me. Maybe won't be here to enjoy performance well. We're here right now. We're going to celebrate. There's many movies we can in the moment. We're GONNA move on right now that Richard Jewel trailer year so or simply put you guys watch the trailer. What did you think of it well? Sam Rockwell gets thrown in another potential Oscar contender potential but I I hate that. We say that I'll tell us I will admit that like let's see the film. Everybody looks at Sherline goals physics an Oscar contender well. It's not just the trailer on this one. It is an awards package. I mean this. It was assembled for the wards are all over it. I mean yeah and then there's another Clint Eastwood movie like you and I talked about before we went on air. People were like the meal we'll do stuff and then it didn't but I think again you have Sam Rockwell Jon Hamm Clint Eastwood Directing Paul how you know all these people together then you like let's see but this is a crowded field this year but I think the story in itself is good to tell the story of how do get lambasted by the FBI beyond the media like we need to tell that story it is a it is a really dynamic story. I just I and none of this is portraying the trailer and of course the trail is good because all all trail if you made a trailer and the movie still looks bad than the movies bad but I I feel like I don't know of Clint Eastwood has the touch needed needed to really tell a story like this. I feel like Clint Eastwood is a is not a very subtle filmaker in his in his opinion and his themes and and I feel like this is to take on the idea of the twenty four hour news cycle especially looking at at twenty nine thousand nine. I don't know I don't know the Clintons person for sure what the new and it's the same because the prior package of this movie is such a ridiculously different lineup Joan Hill playing Richard Jewel it was Leonardo DiCaprio's yeah and it was element who directed. OJ Meeting America Directing which I would love to see the meeting where they're like okay we had the director of Oj meeting America. He's out so I guess we'll go to Clint Eastwood. I feel like that changes the film so much that I am and I am curious to see how Clint Eastwood handles it but I don't know if Clinton's weight is the mind we always talk about directors visions and how they see how the project should go and just like you said we're talking in about a movie about the media being the way it is and Clint Eastwood as vocalist. He's been with this past presidency this current presidency through the past ask years so let's say it's GonNa reflected that heavily so it's like we'll the message be misconstrued or will it be delivered in a way it should be so everyone can understand based on the trailer alone. I have high hopes and we were talking a little bit before we even started. I just WanNa see Paul Walter Houser get the credit. He deserves herbs because ever since I Tanya I've been rooting for him even for that. I thought he deserved supporting nomination. I thought his performance in that was so so good and I've just had a lot of fun with him popping up on Cobra Kai lately. I think he's capable of so much so I wanNA see him. Run Away with this movie but the trailer I think is extremely effective. Gives me really high hopes but I I do have some reservations as far as Clint Eastwood Directing this movie and the thing that weighs heavily on my mind right now because one of his most recent releases is how strongly I felt about fifteen seventeen the Paris which I thought was like a pretty epic blunder so I know he can make a great movie but I also know he could have a huge mess also feel like the in fifteen seventeen in Paris is a very similar setup. It's a movie that's completely about this one event and how it affected how a ballooned out to become in something bigger than that I feel like this is pretty much the same setup but also but the added the added layer of dealing with the entire mess with the media and that's just pouring on another layer of things that like you said I Clint Eastwood if not to not to like I don't WanNa be like Clinton's. What's going to be mean to the media? I that's not my problem in the movie. I feel like Clint. Eastwood doesn't have the subtle touch that's such a multi layered story required. Well also the another another problem with fifteen seventeen to Paris. He used the actual people involved who aren't actors and like you're trying to that to help that doesn't help the film. I get what you WANNA. Do you Wanna add that sense realism because of what this was because of what this is based upon but you can't use people who like you put them in front of a camera and it's like art. I need you to be this way to give this emotion. I need to do this and do that on the end. I don't think that helped but I also don't think that was the movie's biggest problem by obviously Elena lesson because the cast of ritual is not only the two we've mentioned it's Kathy Bates Jon Hamm Awhile it'd be wild yeah. It's it's a great great cast and like you said I I really hope that this is some sort of launching pad for apologizing because he's been putting in such great supporting work for consistently soon yeah my my I'm happy this movie exists because it gives him a leading role so given our next topic we have to at least consider awards potential here right now so do you think that this is gonNA come out. I believe at the in the beginning of December and could could wind up changing the awards race at all or do you think it's going to wind up being you know kind of like last year's the mule where it came out and I know a lot of people out there really liked it but it didn't mm crack any awards conversations whatsoever Kamalesh meal came out at the beginning of December. I think ad might have had the same release date. I know I feel like the mule was like such a Clint Eastwood Vehicle. It was starring Clint Eastwood directed by Clint Eastwood and if one thing didn't work nothing was going to get nominated. I feel like this has more of a chance. That's because I don't know if you've watched that trailer. If you don't put Clint Eastwood's name on you that doesn't factor into it and you kind of like wow this looks the these performances great. This story looks great. I think that this is much more of an Oscar hopeful van. The mule was because the meal like if you don't WanNa see Clint Eastwood you're not going to want to you don't have to see him screen this unless he just decided to interject himself in the Muslim how right you might but as a main focus you don't have to see him in this. I'm going to express the same reservations I did earlier. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this does wind up being a big player but you never know what could happen until this thing we start to screen. A high can't make any feel it really is. I think we're looking at a lot of snubs. Come Oscar time. I think this is a very crowded the year and I think it's like it's crowded but it's also because there's no clear front runners. There's no movie dominating the conversation right now. I think that in itself leads to more snaps not even just the films you know the the actors in the portrayals in these different movies you hear some portrayals okay Joaquin Phoenix right now has been but that's coming out of tiffin fifth in Venice here like Oh this is for sure. He's a front runner for best activists actor but you don't hear too many other ones but I think that's the thing we're trying to look at the movie. As a whole is set a portrayals. We're going to see on that one just for the record the meal came out on December Fourteenth of twenty eighteen and the release date eight on Richard Jewel Jewel is December thirteenth twenty one thousand nine hundred so I I consider thirteen unlucky numbers so you never know dishes with this now and I'm also going to remind you that we're taking your life. Check questions at the end of today's show and we're GONNA roll into some promos right now because you guys I have quite the lineup. We've got Riley roundtable engine. I counsel coming up later so check out these promos because Israeli here let me tell you about the Riley roundtable you know it right it drops every Thursday on collider conversations and I have guests from all across the Space John Rocca Gray Drake Alexander's SPLO- came on at one point. We talked everything for movies. We talk about life and everything in between what do you want to hear. What do you WanNa talk about? It's the Riley Roundtable every Thursday collider conversations you get it there. Well well hello there. I'm catnap suck one of the hosts of Collider Jed eye counsel and I'd like to invite you to listen to our show watch our show. It's on every Thursdays this on the collider video channel and it's also available in podcast form. If you like to listen to our sweet voices on collide I counsel me Christian Karloff and a Bevy guests. I Say Talk Star Wars we celebrate Star Wars. We dig into the Star Wars News. We speculate everything about Star Wars including your questions questions so join US Collider Jet Council. You're going to have a great time all right time for the third panel discussion. We're sticking with the the awards race this year because as we explained earlier the website four Disney's campaigns has vendors game up there. They got a whole bunch of things listed. I don't think we have that image but like I mean one category. After the next is up there and then there's one glaring omission and it's Robert Downey junior for best actor. You guys see that list his name on it. Does it surprise you know I'll tell you why because it's potentially so crowded with best actor nominees because they know that they have a better chance of throwing everything else out there especially with the the technical awards I understand how heartfelt we were when Tony Stark died but to put it. This is GonNa be a best actor. Nomination for the Oscars is difficult running with that argument so you think they have a better chance hands getting a nomination in best director versus best so why choose one over the other then I think that was what else flip a coin voice. I don't know if that's how they decide that. It's tough because like you said endgame game is so hard to talk about out in comparison to other movies because like it didn't even feel like a movie I it had twenty twenty two movies like when I it's find whenever I think of like my favorite movies of the year I never think of endgame because it doesn't feel like a normal movie so I feel like it. I don't know if the performance was actually also really or if it was that endgame hype that came with it being an event that ended a ten year saga. I'd have to really go back and look at it but to me like you said the the field is so crowded that even if even if he was nominated. I don't know if it'd be deserved and I don't. I don't know if it's even worth mounting a campaign supporting actor for Robert Downey junior because it's like I get where we see like yet. The focus is on him sacrificing using his life but in this gigantic ensemble cast were the main focus is essentially him Chris admins Chris Hemsworth Gosh pretty much such a heavy such an obvious play like it'd be like Disney steamrolling into the supporting actor Graham. Here's Robert Downey junior who's clearly actor but if you want them to win I feel like the the supporting category might even like dilute the great narrative he would have had behind him. which is it's just performance in this movie and I know you know maybe when it comes to an award for a single performance should be like how is it in this movie but that's that's ideal again? I say this every Oscar season we're all human beings and we consider everything in play and the truth of the matter is he was the start of this epoch franchise and and I have watched this movie too many times at this point and I watched it a couple of times specifically with the eye of is this a great performance deserving of a best actor nomination and I am of the mind that he does deserve it. I was very surprised to see his name left off the list especially when I believe it's the Roussos who are quoted Eh supporting him in this Oscar race the first what the first five minutes after the opening scene where they go for Thanos that him ownership Nebula Tabula alone Oscar worthy and yes. I know it sounds like I'm gonNA backtrack but again we're looking at a crowded field issue potentially just to give people a picture of that field some names that have been tossed around at this point include Adam driver Joaquin Phoenix Robert Downey Junior Eddie Murphy Matt Damon and Christian Bale among others thanks to Adam Chitwood for that list list pre-state that so it's GonNa be five somebody has to somebody has to miss it and they say Eddie Murphy for sure for Dolemite is my name Joaquin Phoenix more than likely will get it for joker. Bail may get it for four versus Ferrari tiny goodson tearing Edison for her rocket man. Listen to what all the different ones even if you put them in there. It's like if he gets it. If Robert Downey junior gets that nomination and one of those other performances does not but then you have to look at it from those ways curious. I'm curious what you think. The odds are that he might get the nomination anyway he might. I curious How it's sort of like marketing end game it's like did it really even need trailers? You knew about endgame. I wonder if that's that's a similar idea for the officers. Race is does does does endgame really need the push is it's so much bigger than everything so yes endgame would've sold tickets with or without a marketing campaign but still with a powerful marketing campaign you go for making this much money to maybe this much money and I think it's the same kind of conversation when it comes to Academy award nominations. There's a reason they spend a crazy amount of money to mode all this and it's because they're so I mean we said it there are so many things in contention this year and even when you do have the highest grossing movie of All Time I feel like it's still needs that extra push to keep reminding people. It's like if Disney moves forward and keeps reminding people that vendors endgame endgame is in contention for best picture for best picture nomination. That's going to be on the forefront of viewers Ma of voters minds if all of a sudden Robert downey junior is name is left out of that conversation. It's going to be very easy. I think regardless of how big endgame is for him to slip in. Maybe the I mean maybe there's always a chance what's he could still be in contention for that fifth slot because right now looking at this list I would probably Adam driver Joaquin Phoenix Robert Deniro and Eddie Murphy and I think that fifth spot is still a tossup but then it comes down to is someone with a big studio pushing meme for that number five spot gonna get it over someone whose name is repeated over over in the studio push parties will be what gives them the fifth I'm I I really just can't get over the fact that they're pushing for director because that that to me is is Disney saying we appreciate you guys come back that is all that is in pushing a lion this hour John Junior exactly that gave give them like a a an achievement word to the Russo like to nominate vendors endgame for best director. You have to like like every second unit director would also also have to get up there because they directed a good part of the movie. I have to say that to say that you're GONNA. You'RE GONNA push for the Rousseau's to win best director for Endgame Name. That's not Robert dynes union in that. Here's his thank you for your service. Kind of way is very very bold. I'm not opposed to them pushing for the Rousseau's for director. I think that that's a reasonable play there but I I don't think it makes any sense to push for them and not Robert Downey junior but one thing Adam does throat and his article lightly lately is that maybe they had hesitation because it's a big ensemble and they don't WanNa make anyone feel bad when they're in the business of working with these big stars over and over again but I still feel like everybody would rally behind Robert Downey junior and that would so let's say Robert Downey. Jr Junior's name was really on this list. I think that even the most minimal push from a studio light Disney would be good enough because could you imagine the MC you stars that would rally behind in like that in itself generates so much of his name popped up on that list today he would immediately be a contender because not not just for the performance if his name was on that list I would start a one hell of a thing for where people were supporting him to win because it would be it'd be such a diff- it'd be such a crazy win and I and it'd be like it'd be like an event in itself if Robert Downey junior one for his last portrayal of Tony Stark to be fair if he let's say he hypothetically gets a nomination then I think he's got zero chance of winning. That was gonNA say let's say for instance hype Disney's like let's see what happens and the nominations come and they just throw down juniors naming this steal your life whoa okay so dizzy didn't have to push it granted Disney on the was but they didn't have to push it you so you know we should get that one little part on this year eighty. That's all these things so. What do you know what happens if he just happens to get like like you know what this portrayal over this combination over ten years came to everything he go? crazier things have happened. The Oscars are really weird and they've they've been getting weirder. There's not a zero percent chance Robert Downey junior wins best actor for verizon game. I do think it's interesting that they chose not to even try and push it and that they did push the Russa's that to me is something I really would like to hear more about. It just came out today. We've got a long road to the Oscars and I do think we have not heard the last. I don't think everybody's just GonNa Chill out about this. Not being pushed. I will make the bet that in the next couple of days a statement is released and he is added to the website three thousand campaign paying for the Oscars into something that we just brought up on the call she look at the power that Tom Hal. Tom Holland had in terms of bringing Sony and Disney back to the table able and he brought fan support to them and I mean if he's got that big of a voice. Maybe maybe the higher ups are really listening to the fan base. I don't know how I would see that as a positive of them being like sorry that we didn't think you could win this but people got mad so hey now. We're going to push the lace in just like another poster hoops like did they leave. They leave her off the one of the post and everybody was like how are you going to leave and they was like hey listen. Somebody didn't check over this but this is soups. Not Your name on there. Oh we're so sorry yeah. It was supposed to be on there the whole time like all right. Let's let's play some vets right now one. Do you think they're going to turn this around. They'RE GONNA end up adding him to the list and then two if you had to place your bet right now. Is he getting a best actor nomination. I'm not talking win. Just nomination Jess okay no one no. I'm GonNa go with yes and no very fair and that's that's me betting. That's not me picking what I want. I'm betting low for sure. I'm not betting high at all. Here's a fifty cents bet that he gets added to the list to put campaign forward yeah and is he getting a nomination. Here's a quarter that's how much you really can't underestimate the amount of power Disney if they if they WANNA come out and be like just getting. Here's this massive also campaigned for Robert Downey Junior. It's going to happen. You're GONNA see a billboard on on how boulevard tomorrow seven of them down sunset wow I I forgot where in that point of the season the everywhere hopefully yeah. I gotTA keep my road. It's not okay all right. We had to save time for your live chat questions because I got a couple in the mix here. There's one actually specifically named dropping you guys. I don't know why but let's find out rick's amores saying Perry yesterday. You guys talked her. Talk Blank check so please ask jae-in Vinnie. What is their favourite nineties nineties Disney movie minus house arrest? That is the first Jennifer love first teen movie. Yes I don't know yesterday we talked about in the home alone. REBOOT and somehow blank check it. Have you ever seen blind check. I remember that would they. Do you have to ask this question I I don't. I don't think I've ever seen check. Do you have any favorite ninety. S Disney movies Disney movies. I'm trying to think of what we go in the blank. Check category for me. I mean I automatically put it in. My ducts is on my mind because I believe mighty ducks is celebrating an anniversary that makes me feel rolled. That's fair when when did mighty ducks. I think it's something I think the number was twenty seven years ago no not do that. I'm I'm twenty yeah. I'm I'm twenty seven years old. I am one mighty ducks old. That's insane to me. I don't like that but I'm gonNA. You've turned like dog years. Mighty mighty ducks lag. Don't crack so you know what I'm saying that will never will never be able to tell how many mighty ducks you are any going watering good genes cocoa butter. I'll go another ninety nine. It's hard to pick is between two of them honey. I blew up the kid. 'cause I laughed so hard. I loved it. I'm cheesy sometimes and a goofy movie. If you tell me the I hate your whole humanity so is just terrible. It's corrupted a goofy movie was great. We got power line DC powerline t-shirts everywhere again. That's how iconic it is his goofy movie yeah that's my answer to and it always has been it was the whole time it was always a good thing movie. That's that's my blank check. Whatever that yeah I do I dare go from blank? Check to bread. Doreen Doreen is labeled Doreen is labeled this with Jillian Arrows and must answer and I haven't indulged him with a question and while so Jonathan Carro says you know what I hate to go this route. Let's have fun. Invent a horror film with bread and the title or retire I this is happening or re title a horror film with bread in the titles so on twitter yesterday Dory and put the call out for a Halloween twitter handle name. I think it was Derina who went through a whole bunch of bread titles and one was one was the nightmare on bread street and I was a big fan of that so put put bread in a horror movie title Living Bread. bread evil bread was out there. I didn't see that Friday the Brit teeth paranormal bread racer bread I I'm in Jane also said the bread witch project which I agree with that sleep away bread Muslim. We can't sleep away bread. Okay okay think of recent titles recent titles breads cemetery mid bread bread summer read to ask. Let's grab one day to be bread bread day you okay. I think that's my favorite one day. That's a welcome door. It can also suit any genre right happy birthday and it's a movie every day bread room joker with bread bread Sheila Eh featuring killer bread from outer space. That is a good one okay do Sol someone needs to design the Matt Batts Reinhard. I can do these writing these down because you look like I'm afraid to move on to you. Look like you've got another. One and I want to know what it is. The rise of the rise of Bread Walk Walker Walker on the plane alright. I cut you off there. We gotta get one more question here. Let's go oh with another one. Do I dare Oh okay. I'm not this question comes from stash one one one one five ones. They're the only way I feel for Downey to get the story full circle from the early super dark days of his career is to win the Academy Award. Oh Oh this is a this is a comment regarding Robert Danny Juniors chances of actually getting something I mean because when you think about it too it's it goes back to a comment. We brought up before four. Sometimes the story behind an Oscar nomination isn't necessarily just what this person did in one single movie. It's a career honor type thing so that could come into play. We've also got a question from Steve Calderon who I can always count on for boxoffice related questions. How much money do you think joker will make tonight last year? Venom may ten million dollars on Thursday previews Ken Joker go higher or lower to that number. ooh That's a good question. I haven't thought much about the Thursday number but I do have my overall we. I don't know I think I went. I might have gone a little higher our last conversation so I've officially topped out at one hundred five million dollars. I think it's GonNa top Justice League and it's going to hop wonder woman. I'm at a hundred and twenty one. That's a big number UNTAPED 'cause I was already one hundred hundred. I'm one twenty. I think it'll do fifteen tonight okay. I think a lot of people are running to go. See this. I could see it'd beating the even even with the rating I I don't know of one hundred twenty million. I don't know if I'm willing to go that high but I do think it's GonNa hit one hundred million this weekend weekend as for tonight. Yeah I could see I could definitely see it hitting fifteen twenty million I just feel like among the the Hullabaloo that this movie has has all the balloon among the there is no other way no other word to describe what the Joker has wrought upon disturbs -iety but I am I feel like among all that is lost. The fact that there is a huge audience for this movie and it is GonNa make cloud of money good or some people are going to hate watch this. We gotta remember that people are paying to go watch. Even the negativity is sending people to send your Jeff. Has this idea that this is dangerous movie and if you WANNA talk about movies you're going to need to have an opinion on the joker. Kid just go off. I saw I saw the trailer I ah Yes. I need to see it so I definitely think this is a case where good buzz and bad buzz are going to combine for like an epic box office total. I think it is GonNa Anna Crush venoms record and you know bringing in another movie. I was trying to look up what the what the highest Thursday totals were but I couldn't find a quick enough but you know we also you have to consider how much logan made opening weekend which was eighty eight million and I still think it's coming in above well above that chat show us for joker are starting as early as four. PM eastern time this is going to be a lot of money and a I'm. I'm really I'm very intrigued to see how the conversation station changes so. Many people see the movie. I don't know if it's going to change for the better. I don't know what's going to happen. It's going to be messy. It's going to be blue but no matter what happens. It feels like a very like like sunny word to describe this conversation with a let's turn it into a Hullabaloo. Is I get up the official definition and make sure there's no negativity in that blake whether you like don't let's. Let's just keep the conversation. Asia respect rebrand all right. That's the thing which what's the face we just we just we just came up with bread titles twenty minutes. He tells me that's not the definition of I'm fine with that. We should go change that on like wikipedia pity or webster dictionary. Yes all right guys that is it for for bread. Talk Hullabaloo Talk. Whatever I'm surprised I can say that word like that not Europe over avert Vinnie? Thank you for putting that in my head j a pleasure as always cody in the booth. Thank you for your help today during in the live chat as well that is it for collider movie talk today. I've got to let you know though you need to tune in for collider live at ten. Am because it's going to be a cool show where their debut in a clip from a very special video we made so if you wanna find out what that is a go on over to their channel right after you finish movie top but do not leave with liking and sharing this episode and we'll be back tomorrow for our Friday edition of Collider Hullabaloo

Robert Downey Clint Eastwood Disney Oscar director ray Luke Skywalker Vinnie Richard Jewel Jewel Tom Holland Adam Chitwood Joaquin Phoenix Robert Downey Sony Kylo Matt Damon CNN Apple Tom Rothman Asia
WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Fann talk Hogan Crown Jewel news, how much praise do Cena and Bryan deserve, more (11-1-18)

The Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

1:49:44 hr | 2 years ago

WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Fann talk Hogan Crown Jewel news, how much praise do Cena and Bryan deserve, more (11-1-18)

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Earning executive MBA at Georgetown, isn't the path of least resistance that. It does come with the greatest reward benefit from our strong alumni network renowned faculty DC location and global residencies. Get started at use Georgetown. Dot com slash e MBA earning executive MBA at Georgetown, isn't the path of least resistance, but it does come with the greatest reward benefit from our strong alumni network renowned faculty DC location and global residencies. Get started at shoes, Georgetown dot com slash e MBA. PW torch spreaker bring you the Wade Keller of pro wrestling podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking current events in pro wrestling. All right. Rich Cogan is back. The biggest star in the history of this industry at certain points in time. And we could add a few names that list the debate it, but among the biggest all time most recognizable top drawing mega suspended for three years. The suspension is lifted he is now appearing on a WWE event and WWE is in talking about it. They're not hyping it. They're trying to sneak it in you have to click more wrestlers link or more something link to actually see his face on the crown jewel page. They put it up two days before crown jewel. No one else. But television, even HOGAN isn't talking about this on Twitter. I find this remarkable not only that. That HOGAN is coming back on this controversial abet. But that WWE is being super quiet about it. What culture in their story said this is turning into the setup of an actual joke. How do you make a propaganda exercise, even more problematic? Get a racist to appear on it. This is another layer to us insatiable story. One almost impressive and help raise. It is. It is absolutely unbelievable. But also grimly believable as to be inevitable. Ritchie reaction to today to to the news breaking recording this on Wednesday HOGAN at crown jewel. If there's anyone that would be offended and teach the Saudi prince and Bs and his folks how they can sell their quote unquote mistake is it's not that we dismembered and maimed and killed a reporter it said someone recorded it and kept track of it force. It would be HOGAN. So I it's par for the course, also I think I never thought I'd live in a world where John sina was seen as persona non grata and HOGAN. Was in WW eating, and so this this is just the icing on a crab Sunday. And then of course, you know, adding Burnett young as the hostage of the tour is in something was lost on me either. I I'm just flabbergasted, and I'm hopeful no one does anything to get themselves any of their co-workers are. Yeah. I would think that you're the safety of everybody, you would think would be at the highest level. Because the last thing Saudi Arabia needs any incident or any kind of issue considering that they are not looking to be seen as an outlaw in the Middle East their goal through in part paying this out of context above going rate amount for a live wrestling event with WWE stars. It's not just because they're fans WWE and can afford to have a fantasy wrestling show for the prince. They also want to improve their image. That's been so greatly damaged setback. I don't know to what degree and for how long that remains to be seen. But they need more than at the last show and more than would have been the case for this show. Otherwise, they need things to smooth. I mean, I like, obviously, it's volatile situation who knows in general, but I would think that the wrestler safety and staff safety would be. At a higher percentage that that it might have been otherwise, that's my belief. I did a triple maybe even quintupled when I saw that Rene youngest coming because that to be with all of the red flags like, okay, we're going to say we have a woman here. A woman the singular woman here. And if I'm an again, this is me speaking for myself, I can't speak for him. But if I'm dean Ambrose, I'm like what in God's name. Are you people doing? Is bad enough. You bring me now you're gonna put my wife in a situation, we're gonna use her as a puppet, and you're gonna put her in a situation where because remember wait last time, they came out. They didn't advertise video where people had to apologize because they dared to so shot social banks Bailey. And I want to say it was Carmella in their ring attire doing a traditional WWE highlight package. What are they going to do if Rene young actually goes barefoot leg issue? She's walked to do during her backstage interviews or anything like just because it's easier to not be in heels is that going to be seen as big a front, and if so what is going to be able to tell like, why would you think that's the way to show that this isn't a hyper repressive regime? Yeah. It feels like a to some token gesture away to mid try to mitigate controversy and take maybe a faster step forward than they plan to otherwise to others. It will be seen as vindication. Look WWE is opening doors there. Are setting an example in a culture that has not welcomed women and in that type of position. And now she's going to be there in this is part of WWE saying, I told you so it might take twenty shows might take H shows, it might take four shows, but we're going to you're going to see progress, and and this is part of a master plan. That we're gonna feel as we go along with the idea being we're going to keep going there. And we're going to bring up a Merican culture to to this country show it off to the old guard that this is what the public. This is what the the the people of Saudi Arabia's start to get used to. And if you have a female announcer, that's step one female ring announcer, who's more front and center step to then maybe have a woman at ringside step three. And then maybe you finally end up with a women's match playing devil's advocate. Why is there any young move not seen as a positive step in the right direction? Change doesn't happen overnight. And of course, I'm separating this from the Khashoggi strangulation. It sounds like now and dismemberment from the equation is this can this be seen as hey, this is showing progress is going to be made. No to me, it doesn't. Because again, I for me. I'm a person that can't on Mary one from the other. So if they had one show where they claim this opening doors for future generations, then that event occurs, and this event now happens how many times are we going to have to see a paint by numbers women's match before we have fair and open press in Saudi Arabia. How many times are we going to need to see the same Zack Ryder rule before you get to see women enjoy themselves at the show that aren't provided as props like for me. This whole thing is kind of getting more and more disgusting because as you look at it these concessions are happening as a reaction to not being proactive with the Saudi government at large. And so it it it smacks to me just closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out earning executive MBA at Georgetown, isn't the path of least resistance, but it does come with the greatest reward benefit from our strong alumni network renowned faculty DC location. And global residencies. Get started at shoes, Georgetown dot com slash E. NBA earning executive MBA at Georgetown, isn't the path of least resistance, but it does come with the greatest reward benefit from our strong alumni network renowned faculty DC location and global residencies. Get started at shoes, Georgetown dot com slash e MBA. Hogan. But let's introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast for Thursday, November first two thousand eighteen on the eve of crown jewel, which will be getting into also later on on the program will also be talking about Becky, rod Arousa, Becky Lynn, Sharada Rossi going going at it. In a champion versus champion match at survivor series will follow up on Roman reigns. And how his leukemia is being presented on WWE. Tv lots to talk about the withdrawal of both Johnson. And Daniel Bryan from crown jewel and morals get into Evelyn to answer questions. So a lot on the agenda today. Let's, but like I said, listen, I'm Wade Keller, and I am the editor of p w torch dot com and the pro wrestling torch newsletter and the host of this show the way podcast and also earlier in the week the way Keller pro wrestling post shows, which you can also subscribe to four free wherever you're listening to this. Show. Just search Wade Keller and subscribe to the red logo. In addition to the show, which has a blue logo the weight Keller post show covers raw and smackdown with a fest turn around time of just a few hours. We are live taking calls with the livestream. At Wade, Keller podcasts dot com after smackdown end. And then the full show is available for download a few hours later, my co-host on today's plague ship is rich fan who is the host of the deep dive with rich fan. What a coincidence part of the the torchlight cast lineup that show is available usually Saturday nights on our seven day a week PW torch life cast lineup with different themed shows each day of the week rich. Welcome back to the flagship. Thank you for having me. Wait, always a pleasure. And I always look forward to be worn appearance. More than my co host of the east coast, cash drives. Bryant sounds good. So much to talk about today. The HOGAN news being a little bit of an unexpected twist. I should say unexpected. He said, I think it was your Landau sentinel. He was looking forward to being a crown jewel and also wrestlemainia. What first of all for those who are uninsured in? Why this is controversial HOGAN served a three year suspension not for saying racist things. One time on a sex tape with his best friend and his wife, but two times in for whatever reason the media when they bothered to actually mention what HOGAN did and said almost always leave out the jailhouse conversation with his son, his son was in jail, Nick. And he was talking to him, and they were talking about how they wanna be reincarnated how their best friend's father son, but best friends and they want to get reincarnated. But any said in rather harsh language, not as to African American tonight is to black people. It was just so to me, I think both situations are should be paired together. Always when making references. This wasn't a one off HOGAN was in his fifties. When he made these comments not that there's an excuse to be like that when you're in your twenties. But the idea that this was a long time ago like oaken talks about. Like wasn't that long ago? He was a full metre mezzo that's part of it. Rich, add some add some layers to that. And your thoughts on on the quote three or suspension. Even though they never said he was suspended until the suspension was lifted which was kind of convenient. And then the idea that now there's a whole other layer of the conversation. But once against something is happening in WWE that feels like it's only happening because of Saudi Arabia's Royal family wanting it to happen. The breaking kind of narrative and the natural flow of things within WWE. And I think HOGAN and his return try to sneak them in on Friday show is part of that ongoing story. Also, so many angles to this. Yeah. I think I with the jailhouse conversation. Cam one of my colleagues on the east coast. He does the free Porsche what Travis always would everytime. Hold him. Come up with quote tweet the person who brought up HOGAN with the language from the bedroom conversation talks about basically, I'd allow my daughter to date a black man if he was a basketball player using the N word never have petites with Joe house conversation. I think that was a lot more indicative of him. Because if you want to argue that I was in a dark place, brother and all the other stuff he mentioned when you look at what happened in the jailhouse conversation. He's talking to a son, and you can clearly see that Nick wants no part and saying the word wants, no poor. He's kind of shuffling often. Yeah. Yeah. You know? I I know what you mean dad God, please. He's quite clearly trying to beg out of the conversation. Hogan's like, you know, you know, don't wanna come back, and he wouldn't even say the word he's like Niblett, which is I work at a university. And I have to deal with students all the time. Trying to explain to them the significance of you know, what you're trying to say. You're not saying why are you trying to say the word, and I think for fifty six year old man at the time or fifty five whatever age he was at the time. You can argue I heard that word coming up which has been debunked by numerous people who grew up where he grew up around the time. He did you can argue I was in a dark place, or, you know, the Roseanne mixed it with ambient, and you know, it just came out. But when you the fact that he as you've mentioned in others here at the torch and elsewhere would find every single black person he could to put on Twitter that would affirm his existence as a positive force in the quote, unquote, black community was just stunning. And when he doubled down and went to the sentinel and said, I look forward to being a crown jewel the tie-in with the Saudi Arabian angle that was just bar for the course, I mean, the same list you've gone over to others have gone over it the list of people they wanted at that. I show half people dead the other half, it's well past their sell-by date. And so. We see this with undertaker. We see this triple h we see this. Shawn Michaels and dec- HOGAN return for the show. I don't know if he's got wrestle or just having appearance long enough to kind of flex play Darren real American and get out because he's not coming Hollywood HOGAN, they want red and yellow the prince wants basically to play WWE to k eighteen with real people and opening the door to this saying, hey, our companies for sale is long as you pony up half a billion or more we'll play ball with. You is a lot of people can say that's wrestling. But there has to be a line somewhere. And I think the more they get involved with the Saudis, and this the more we find that. There is no line for Vince McMahon, and we should never have thought there was one otherwise. So you weren't moved by his apology. Earlier earlier this year. I I'm in the to be honest. You know, Bruce, and I would talk about the new day and kind of some of the issues and Herron and some of the storylines and things they do I think their response was the most measured response on that end, not one for foul language, and I'm not one on the family family waited Keller. Pro wrestling pike cast to do. So, but I feel like that was a slap in the faces apology. Was that next time if you're gonna do something really discussed and make sure there isn't video or audio evidence. And. When it comes to. Then I mentioned this at the very beginning when it came to the Saudis, that's the one lesson. They seem to be learning from this. We could stick to a story until there's an audio or until this video until this corroboration. And even then the, you know, there's you know, there's facts there, you know, there's lives damnable lies in their statistics. And you know, that's basically what they're doing here. They're just going to talk about how much money they raise how much they're doing for the community. You know, how many cars have now been driven by women in calendar year. All these silly things that are just going to be just distractions window-dressing for what's going on. I'm a big fan of the movie blazing saddles. And I like this to the town at the end of the movie when Bart comes through with his gang, and it's just all sit pieces, so as they start punching things like I feel like watching that first show if you just tapped one of those couches three hundred people would disappear, and it's just it's just so sad. And so weird. And so. Interesting that this lateness career Vince McMahon is just. Doing this is wild to me, wait. And so with HOGAN yet the apology. No, it didn't register one outta. He's never done a thing. I think Bruce had a really good idea. You had a really good idea to if you want to be pragmatic like if you wanna go the John CENA route he showed up at five different NWC p presentations and talked about the power of words and taken a picture with. Whatever Gill advocate of the day. That's been on Fox News and said, hey, these guys like black people. I like, I'm black. It's cool shown up with someone like that to say, hey, I've learned my lesson words hurt. The power words. Yadda, the only thing he did was hide re tweet and re tweet people saying, well, how come Obama could say and hope can yes. And then he spoke to them up, but he talked to the buffalo news. This was so in may of this year, and he said that. This amazing. He was sorry. For quote, the few fans who feel hurt by what he called miss spoken. Racist words your years ago. Let's just be clear that this is this is what he said to friends during a sexual situation in a bedroom. When his guard was down in two thousand seven, and he did not know he's being recorded. I am a racist to appoint effing enters. I don't give an f if she inaudible in eight foot tall basketball player if we're going to f- with enters. Let's get a rich one about his daughters boyfriend being black. How how is that a spoken word? And how do you feel about apologizing only to fans who were enough of a snowflake to be hurt which adding a little little a little flair to his own quote. But that's how I take it. Well, tell the snowflakes out there who can't handle a little misspoken work get over it. I apologize to you that I'm sorry. That's that's how I took that quote, like, you're not justified. And there were so few of you. I mean, come on like, I can't imagine honestly home. I apology that HOGAN would make. Make them that one. Yeah. It was it definitely was the gold medalist in failure in terms of both the the structure, and even the mar that the people he was appealing to. But again, the people he was appealing to don't necessarily care that he said the words locker room conversation. It's you know, he was in the heat of the moment, we got it. Forgive them move on. You know, why you're taking this, you know, rapper say at why can't he all these little outs to not talk about the destructive? Let you take the word out talk about the fact that you're looking at another human being that's interested in your daughter, and he will not have value to you unless he provides money or the media. Attention commensurate to what you need at that point in your career to make up for the fact that he's not white, right? Yeah. Those are the things those are the that's the ladder. He has to climb and lower. Lord, forget if it was a she had to climb in that case because I I wanna think about what he would have said that case. These are the ladders for Terry Belay because payroll in court, he said this Terry Belay, and there's go to different people. That person that that was the ladder climb to escape whiteness without paying a penalty that was the tax. And that to me is just horrid that to me again. And I realize I'm not every wrestling and that to me eliminates just like with Crispin while all of the phantom my head for that person prior to that act earning executive MBA at Georgetown, isn't the path of least resistance, but it does come with the greatest reward benefit from our strong alumni network renowned faculty DC location and global residencies. Get started at shoes, Georgetown dot com slash e MBA earning an executive MBA at Georgetown, isn't the path of least resistance, but it does come with the greatest reward benefit from our strong alumni network renowned faculty DC location, global residencies. Get started at used Georgetown dot com slash E. M B A. We hear sometimes. Well, everyone deserves a second chance. And I don't think I'm saying HOGAN should be. I don't know strangled to death just to grab a random example. I think that he should maybe not be promoted by an international entertainment company as a role model ever again. I think that's fine. I think he can go about his life. You can run a store fans wanna walk in and pose with wax figures, a whole Kokin and shake his hand and do selfie pictures with a that's up to him and the mall. He rent space from and fans who choose to walk in his doors. I'm not saying anyone should stop that. I don't think he should be promoted by WWE that Tout's themselves not just as an entertainment company, but a do gooder Hans gently look good good things. We do in our community. I don't think he should be propped up as a role model. I don't think someone in his mid fifties. Saying those things and apologizing. As clumsily terribly as he apologized should get another chance to be portrayed by the company voluntarily paying him money as a role model. I just that that to me. I don't think there's a second chance of that. If so he could be in the hall of fame, but I don't think it should be celebrated on air. Contemporaneous -ly. I think that that got that's something that he just well I'd himself from that. That's my take on it. This is my second chances. I'm not again, I'm not saying he can't go about his life. He can't his friends. Can't love him as family can't love him. And he can't go about earning money in other ways. There's many many ways to make money is swimming. He needs it which he does not because he's got tens of billions of dollars from the Gawker lawsuit. But even if you needed money, there's other honest ways to make a living than to be falsely portrayed as a role model by a company that props itself up as do-gooder. And that's that's where HOGAN showing up in Saudi Arabia. Feels like well Saudi Arabia wanted it. They bought it. I'm really curious. How w w b frames on Friday. And also if he shows up on TV and highlight. Packages. And if he shows up at wrestlemainia when you don't have the well the Saudis wanted it, and we promise them so we had to deliver excuse. Why think on the TV side? We've already seen it weighed when they've done their new updated. Then now forever. He's in there. It's quick. But he's in there, and it sotos little things as as they start to introduce him. Just like with anything else. They wanna do if they realize it's gonna offend people. They know how to work around it. I mean, look back at the evolution pay per view when they cut to Charlotte becky's prematch promo video package, and they added in boos fifteen years from now, if they're still a WBZ network, and my son is twenty and twenty one I guess, and he turns on the WB network to him. That's what the reality would have been the situation. And so for that that they wanna paint it the way they want, and they they're hoping that enough people just go with it in fact, while we're talking now, I'm looking on Twitter. I'm reading all these responses that say, you know, without HOGAN, it'd be no Steve Austin, no rock you realize. As a fan growing up during the attitude era. I just feel like he's you know, it was in the past everyone's made mistakes in their pets. I'm seeing so many tweets at both the torch handle, and what is this a? Just general to each other as because I typed in HOGAN as general tweet, and it it's wild to see this many people. They're just like papering over. Hey, he said it it's in the past. If you say it's in the past for say a ten year old fourteen year old. I mean, good example, like I've mentioned on a couple of other places y'all be quick here. I know you're Vikings fan. Vikings have Kirk cousins great, dude. He's seventy percent is a passer. It's insane. The Buffalo Bills my former favorite team which I have since shipped on drafted Josh Allen. Josh Allen the day of the draft. They reveal he used the N word and all these other things on Twitter. The argument shifted just like with HOGAN from let the young man on up to his mistakes too. It was in the past. He was quoting an episode of modern family and just don't be so PC. Everybody says that words some point in their life. And for me personally. I was like, okay. This is step too, far, the haven't even given this person opportunity to apologize, and you've already made excuses and having seen it with HOGAN. It was just too much. And so with HOGAN you, and that's just football. And that's just a kid from Wyoming you magnify that. With the pop culture celebrity I've been on TV of a ho Cogan, and so many people are willing to excuse it just because maybe one time he took a picture with them outside of his. Restaurant and bar and grill or something like that for fifty bucks. You know, there's there's this mindset of well, the celebrity made a mistake. Let them get over it. I'm fine with that. I mean, shoot you look at in the case of the WWE you have someone like a Jake Roberts who has been through. Helen back had drug and alcohol issues. I'm doing a deep dive in a few months about him because it very much reflected the relationship as a kid I had with my father drug and alcohol issues, and that was a person that sometimes seeking help and other times seeking attention by pretending to seek help. He at least made that effort when he was pretending at no pointed HOGAN, Detari Belay ever say, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done it not. I'm sorry. Eddie, the three people. I fended not. I'm sorry. Wish you guys or not the end. This is my personal favorite not say what he said. And then follow up a few months later. I said I was sorry. Yeah. Is there anything HOGAN could have said that would have resonated with you by not? Especially when he first started. Speaking about the issue that would have made you think, okay? That was a dark time in Hogan's life, even if it was to its incidents months apart. And I feel like I'm hearing somebody who who really is truly regretful that he said things to try to impress a dirtbag friends, and and you know, trying to impress his son. Who didn't seem impressed. Is there any way he could have talked in a way that would have made you think? Okay. I actually think the spotlight being shined on the things he was saying changed him and made him look at himself differently. Like is is that is that something he could have done and miss the opportunity. I think so and for an example, I would point to James Gunn who recently got kicked off the guardians of the galaxy project by Disney after he was kicked off he released a letter where he said the things I said at the time, we're me the person I am twenty eighteen is a person who's looked at those things and wanted to be a better. A person every day and has tried to do that for the past ten years. That's easy on. I I can't say this was a dark period of my life. I say, hey, I wasn't a happy person. Then I said, these absolutely a porn things, you know, because for for those who don't know you can look it up. But James Gunn said some new things about children all these things, and he was doing it from what he said was a place of humor. But it was something that was clearly seen in twenty eight teen as just this isn't good. And then the issues behind why that was revealed the time did is story for another day. But he didn't run and say this is people who don't like the fact I speak out against the president bringing these things that have been lose my job. He's it sucks. But that was me. And this is now also mate. And I'm trying to be a better version of that person. And no point to carry Belaya say that and no point did he say, you know, I really wish I hadn't said those things I really wish I hadn't said it to my son because that's now Creighton another generation, but I said them, I know that isn't in my heart now, and I all I can do. His show you otherwise. Couldn't even say that to his co-workers. Hey, guys, the thing. I wanna talk to you today about is like one of those after school specials is in the future. If you're gonna do something. Gnarly make sure no one's recording it. Yep. Okay. One more question on the open front will move onto other topics. How do you anticipate WWE featuring HOGAN tomorrow? I mean HOGAN is I would argue if I'm research I'd say, right? He's featured a little more prominently into then now forever, then even Roman reigns. Is right now. And he's at the beginning of it. And and at the forefront again, it feels like WBZ constantly tipping their toe in the water to see what the public reaction is going to be two two things that they want to go forward with it. But they have to feel it out. And it was a step back went when Titus O'Neil new day completely rejected Hogan's of a bungled inept revealing attempt at in apology, which turned into hey, we're all we're a brotherhood. Here's wrestlers, and you have to watch out for when there might be you might be secretly recorded. I mean, it was just it was just dropping -ly tone deaf and revealing. How do you think WWE given their history the people involved? Well, we'll portray HOGAN on Friday and then on Monday and Tuesday on Ron smackdown or WB dot com. I how much of a clue is that. They've just quietly snuck him in at the bottom of a list of talent that's appearing on the show. I think he's the thirteenth person out of thirteen. That's maybe the seventy thousand sixteen because like Rosa three whatever it is. He's the last person listed and you have to click an extra time to see him. And they haven't made a big proclamation on their page about it as of this recording. Well, I mean, if you look at the WWE Twitter feed and website when they had the end of you. Oh reunion. They tried to keep it as much as possible to in wwl not HOGAN end, the N W. So I think that tells the story same thing as I joked on Monday, the small every time I see the crown jewel logo, get smaller. And smaller two point where I think it's gonna be like two point font thing that they stick in the corner and do similar to what they did during I wanna say Monday where they just kept it up all night. And and not give you the opportunity to throw vitriol when it first pops up rather than slowly kinda like the analogy of, you know, turn the heat up in Boylan towed. When the time it's it's the same thing with HOGAN. I think they're going to play them. They're going to mention oh, by the way, HOGAN was there. And when it comes down for wrestlemainia he'll be in an access package, but they won't necessarily shout. It to the rooftops. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's let's cover some other topics here. And let's mention Roman reigns. A moment ago atop star and WWE for years not necessarily the fans choice during stretches of time announced last Monday, we can half ago that he is relinquishing universal title taking leave of absence indefinitely to battle leukemia. I mean, a shocking moment, how do you feel about? How w WBZ's handle this were over a week past the announcement. We've seen how it was handled on smackdown. The next night. And then how it was handled on Ron smackdown. This week not much on spec on this week. But it continues to be talked about on raucous of dean avarice and Seth Rollins and incorporated of that. Also, the idea of announcing it live on television without informing his colleagues and friends before he announced it live on TV, including those who arrest laying a few hours southwest at a smackdown. House show who had to find out through text messages, and such all of that. How do you think it'd be Honey grade them how do you assess how they've handled the Roman reigns? News over. Well. I think it's two fronts one. If that's how he wanted to present it, and he wanted to keep it to himself, and you and Travis mentioned last week the possibility that perhaps he knew he only had one of these speeches in them. And he couldn't do it in the back and completed out in front. Without at some point him breaking down. I were spec. The heck out of that. What I don't respect is what I had difficulty agreeing with Travis in his rebuttal of your opinion of what went down Monday was it wasn't just that. They mentioned Romans leukemia, and they gave him the Roman moment. And they followed it up throughout the night. Kind of giving him these words wisdom, it's how you look at the whole show in. How was framed we just finished talking about ho- coke and one of the people again, you mentioned that he spoke out against him was Titus O'Neil. You have Roman mentioned as Kimia Titus O'Neil come out on that same Monday and award championship belts to women who had breast cancer talking about his grandmother struggles with cancer, and how that was important to him in how life tanning was for him. Then you have the dean Ambrose situation after having dedicated the match to to Roman this week, you do the same thing. But instead of it being Titus, you talk about children's cancer and how they visited these cancer. Awards and then you cut to the promo about you couldn't even wait for Romans day. You know, Romans day was when you decided to do this dean in your scumbag, your mama hatred and all this stuff, and I don't like it. I don't like it. And so many people have done the what aboutism game with it where you know, my buddy Shaheed who calls into these coast, cancel the time. I hadn't been watching w we at the time. So I don't have a frame of reference of the Eddie situation. I I was in grad school. So I didn't really my my brain was focus on grad school. So I could watch wrestling. And so I missed that period of time. But even if I had been there just because they were that disgusting during the death of Eddie grow doesn't mean this is any less itchy. If that makes sense. With with Roman reigns. Being. Gone for now WWE trying to transfer the emotion of losing Roman too. Brand building. But also feud building how different would the angle half to have been if dean Ambrose turned on Seth the following Monday. Like when I look at the time lied right now, I don't really see any sense of urgency given what the what's going on at crown jewel and Lucien and survivor series hype. I just sense zero sense of urgency to get the Seth the dean turn on Seth in on that Monday. And well, I my outrage was dampened by the fact that so many people didn't Raval to compartmentalize or weren't upset by. And I was like, okay. I mean, if that's how so many people feel even if it's not the choice. I would've made. I'm less outraged. Then if everybody just sort of felt like it was God, it was just jarring in it felt like took something cheapened a real life moment. But I just look back. And I just to me there's no there's no rationalizations for doing it on that show other than exploiting the emotions people were feeling about the real life rain situation. And what was the upside to what did they get when dean came into the crowd as one of the colors mentioned on your boat show. What was their vociferous boos? No. It was okay. Dean Ambrose is right next to me. Sweet. There is no you are the devil. Like when set once turned on his brothers in the shield and even in his promo. I was thinking back and I'm like get right? Like, even when you did that I didn't sell out either in and he gave you the ease. Those for what he'll set Rawlins was. We still haven't figured out what Rawlins's. But now we add on the addendum of Roman reigns. Cancer defender. And I don't know what that does for him either. Because of actually if he keeps having to mention it. It's going to be Kim to win people would have to mention the bunk house. Stand peed or dusty giving him a boot to give them good luck. And all that silliness because it's it's the spectrum the room so to speak, but you don't have to be so crass about it. Yeah. And it also creates a I don't know if I was the only person that noticed this, but it makes this negative zone for Rene because anytime that stuff comes up she is silent. It is. And you know, it's going to be awkward for her in general as they've knowledged that they're in a relationship and. Yeah. I I'm not quite sure the best way to handle it. It's just bad timing for color commentary on the same brand that her husband is doing despicable things that she is at times being asked to comment on. I think her just being able to say, well, I'm just not that's his business. And I'm doing my job almost like, hey, don't don't make me for quote, my man in a way that just let me do. My job is probably the best out. And from me, I would accept that up until I saw Evelyn because during Lucien she was pro Bella because of her relationship to them until Bellas. Yes, every single time. Someone would say something about them. She was like, no. These are women these strong, women and Rhonda had no business same when she said, she does not know their story, and as well, okay. If you wanna play this game of reality versus cave aid. You got it play. It both ways. You can't just pretend like dean Ambrose stranger you ran into. And you're like my stars and garters this evil, man. I will shut my mouth in preparation for what ills he has pretended for the. World, you know, it's just you. I was really struck by that because everyone else to the point where she became I wrote on Twitter, she became the Corey graves of that announced team how over the top. She was defending Nikki in particular. And it was jarring. I mean, the match was great. But that to me was low. I've never seen Rene be the quote unquote, heel commentator, but for her in her universe. It made sense. So I was like, okay. Why would this not make sense in your universe? I have not a chance to talk about Harry's razors in a while. But they're back as a sponsor of the program, and I'm happy to endorse this product, it is my razor of choice now. And I highly recommend you check it out. 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Once I saw that the Twitter Lert from someone pointing it out on Twitter to me, I did a screen capture because I'm like, I'm not gonna hit refresh because I want there to be evidence. Not that there wasn't plenty out there. I hit refresh and he's got and they've added like Ray mistero, Jeff hardy Kurt angle in the midst to the page among perhaps, some others, but HOGAN has gone. And so you wonder if he was at one point scheduled, and it was timed, you know, to to like, somebody didn't get there's all these house show lineups that they set out to arenas and arenas are still advertising matches with wrestlers teaming who are broken up and take a championships on wrestlers who lost belts weeks ago in. So one department doesn't always communicate with another. I can't imagine WWE not having with everything going on having their finger on the pulse of of whole Kokin announcements more carefully than this. What what's your what's your gut reaction? Hunch tell you just happened. My gut reaction is someone again want to let him wasn't talking to the right hand. I think I'm gonna be just the pragmatic, you know, darkness time line side of it. I think he's still going, but they didn't want to advertise it much like when they took crown jewel often tickets page and then magically edited and then took it away, and then it's old out and how they are having crown jewel, which has become a global pay per view event as opposed to taking place in Saudi Arabia. I was gonna say is that like wrestlemainia was at two or three where it's in like seven locations at once. We're going to have a little bit in like Portland, Oregon, you're gonna have something in like Florence Italy. And then you're gonna have is it like that? Or what do they mean by global 'cause I got I have some friends with some money, and they might be able to fly me there. And there was some talk of the styles. Dana Brian match being at the performance center as opposed to in Saudi Arabia since Dana. Brian didn't wanna go to Saudi Arabia. So. All right. Let's use that as a transition here, John CENA and Dana Brian report surfaced last week that they did not want to go to Saudi Arabia and this week the unredacted respectively. They were written out of storylines, and so he just taking on Samoa Joe. Instead, what are your thoughts on that? Does to me Danny Brian deserves more praise than sina based on based on the information. We have so far only because sina has a career outside of WWE. He's trying to protect and dating Brian doesn't. So Daniel Bryan by making this decision and being the lone wrestler whose fulltime on the roster to say count me out. He's his primary income source is WWE. And he is saying I'm gonna roll the dice. I'm standing on principle. I don't wanna go there. John sina has not publicly taken a stand that I've seen as of this recording explaining it was immoral is that it was a moral decision that I learn new there's been new developments. Learned more. I regret and retract what I said last time. I was there. And I want nothing to do with that regime. He didn't say didn't like that. So to me, it's good. He did it not saying, it's bad. But the reasons he did it seems to be more of a pragmatic calculation of what's best for my career outside of WWE. And he's a big enough star with enough clout that w w even if they hold this against him. And they might they might not be pleased with them they he's too big of a star to just completely right off entirely when it's not a scandal like with Okocha took them out of the public eye. But simply a a pragmatic business decision at the very least your thoughts for me. I think I see that point. But I also see that. And you can correct me because you would know this more than I would at the time that they both came up as free agents. It was reported the Daniel Bryan Johnson had to say major. So for me that made sense that those. Would be one of the only two people because they would be to the only people on the roster at least in recent memory. That knows what's on their contract, and what they can do and not have at least legal ramifications for it. For for Brian. He's not he hasn't done the same. He he hasn't put out at tweed, or you know, he spent more time talking about his wife being internet bullied, then why he's not going the only person. I would argue that deserves credit for any of this is his AIn who has from the start of the Khashoggi situation tweeted his displeasure with it and support for. The family and against the Saudi regime now he can do that because he's currently on the shelf, but being on the shelf and Canadian and of a lineage that somehow bans him from Saudi Arabia to begin with he aided. He could have just kept his mouth shut, and he kinda pushed against a system more than either of them. But I think in the case of John CENA, as you mentioned when you talk to Bruce elsewhere yet he got a visceral by John Oliver. And I think for him. There isn't a way out if he does speak. It's going to be seen as him just being again, even more pragmatic, and as robotic is Johnson is when he talks, it's it's I love him. I'm I'm a staunch defender, and I always point back to the things he does and doesn't say anything rather than the things. He actually does say because sometimes he's as stupid. Thanks, for instance, when he did the Ad Council. Presentation where he talked about the actual by the numbers representation of everyone in the United States. That was something he did on his own. It wasn't something WWE did and could take credit for. So the first time it was like what minute and a half. Add the second every other time sense to this day. It's been like two and a half three years. It's like a ten second thing if you ever see it on WWE television. So I think he's smart enough to realize the world he lives in and kind of has is outside of the elevator Laden palace. He lives in. But he also is smart enough to know at this point much like the rock because I don't know if you saw this, but the rocks been catching it left right and center is well, and he's not said a word because again, he's in the same position. You can talk about all the click bait he called the the reporter asked him about a click bait and away. And if we take a step back. He's kinda right because that article the first personal gets it is gonna create fifty seven thousand sub articles. I mean, I can look every time you put something up on the torch. There's eighty-seven wrestling with Z sites that are gonna put. Bastardize versions of it and claim it as their own. So I can only imagine. If Brock says Saudi Arabian NBS NBS is Nobuo is going to be like the telephone game to Mohammed bin. Salaam is now, you know, the rocks best friend, and here's how they're secretly keeping track by Twitter. So that's not what that reporter did that reporter asked a legitimate question about the last time, the rocks Bo publicly about the crown prince and like to take us that that credible reporter for click bait for simply doing their job. And the only way for them to do their job is to click on the link to an article that creates legitimate that that is part of legitimate story for someone who benefits greatly from his being in the public is a celebrity who voluntarily spoke lonely about this this being wined, and dined and impressed figuratively. Speaking by Saudi Crown prince. I just thought that was that was a an embarrassing moment for for doing. Johnson it came across defensive and thin skinned in petulant and privileged. And that's I mean, those are all right in that's him respondent seen it probably took a look at that as Nope. I will play dumb and wait for the Bumblebee moving come out, and I will robot walk myself down the aisle and pretend like nothing happened. I think your question similar to the question that the personnel to rock is a great one for seen it the next time. He is out there. Hey, why didn't you go? Or if you know if I was his agent, I would have gone John Oliver and say why didn't go that. Yes. Boy went that be. I mean, I do you have confidence in in Encina to be able to handle that situation. Oh, he could. I haven't seen him in things like not just live. But some of the other not just movies but situations where he's had his hair down. And he's talked even about the family relationship. He's head and how much of himself. Yes. To wall up because of the way he was raised. I think that'd be a great environment. Form because he could just either go in and take it and be a good sport about it and own it. He would I argue, and this is something, you know, facts not evidence. I'm sure Todd wherever he is on the Jericho with. Shake his fist at me and object, but I would posit that he would do a better job with a non apology about crown jewel going the first time then HOGAN has done in the past X number of years defending himself. Like, he would go on there, take it and say, hey, you know, what? Sometimes you just gotta look in the mirror and say who was the guy can I look in this mirror at the man. That's doing what I'm doing cannot. No. I can't. Okay. And then I can't go there. And that's nothing against any of my coworkers. Like you said there's nothing to get. They have to do what they have to do. But for me at this point in my life of my career. I have to I had to go different way. And that's the delicate aspects is any wrestler who conscientiously objects or pragmatically for their career outside it only WB objects. If they explain it. It can come across. I mean, how bad does it make some owa? Joe, look if Dana Brian makes really eloquent argument about why he stepped out of the match with AJ doesn't make AJ look bad by comparison is like so that's where John is like if he goes in explains and self and does so artfully does it does that leave himself open to quite the comeback. Follow up question from John Oliver that then ends up bearing WWE for what appears like a blood money gramp. I we're going to decide this is a cause worth fighting for in the world and to to put themselves in a position to be like, well, we're doing this because it'll help Saudi Arabia progressive society as I told you. Associated Press story. They ran earlier this week. There's a lot of good. They can do for the world where they're not being handed tens of millions of dollars to produce propaganda based on the goodwill that they built up with their fan base for a regime that hasn't changed yet enough to make the case that WWE's should an implicitly endorse them by doing business with them WWE can make more change by saying you want us to run a dream show in front of your people. And and and sending it send a message to the world that you're a country that we should do business with. Well, let's see some positive change. I not just lip service in wining dining celebrities who then Instagram tweet about how how gracious the crown prince was when he was wanting dining them. I like, I just I don't buy it. I mean, we talked about it was actually perfect time. The last Saudi show you had me on afterward. And we remarked how funny it was that Finn Ballard's wash was the week that they went to Saudi Arabia after having spent three months wearing his ballot for everyone rainbow theme use. Yes. And so the by the way Howard is it if w I should say cowardly so word, I maybe maybe have to rethink that. But to not ever acknowledge talk about why he wears that. Like, they want to have it both ways. They don't want to offend people warrant for the LGBTQ community. But they want people who are too thin valor setting a secret dog whistle message to them that I that I for you and for everybody it's like just I mean in and they've done that in other ways. But I haven't seen everybody's against cancer. Everybody's against children's cancer. And so when are they going to be four something that's controversial in certain circles. But they believe it like this. That's part. This whole charitable thing as you can say, well, they're a corporation. They're being pragmatic and corporate in it's through these kinds of endeavors of charitable work that that corporations are going to win. It's public relations. Even Stephanie re tweeted that at a business conference. And. So to me the balloting. Yes, not only is it while he doesn't wear it. When he goes to Saudi Arabia, but even taking a step back. He just started wearing it. And they want credit for it without ever talking about it on their flagship shows shoot. I go one step further. We talk about a Susan b Komen. And you know, Travis is really eloquent at breaking down how much money actually gets to the patients as opposed to the administrative side of things. But why don't you even see something for glad why don't you see something? Why wasn't there a thin valor on Monday Thursday in October for national coming out day? Why wasn't a salute to the brave people like I don't know Titus O'Neil old partner who came out as professional wrestler. Why why were there why you'd say the why don't you talk about dairy bear Nado and her coming out on tough enough with HOGAN? Where are these things? It's so easy, especially when you say that philanthropy is the new marketing, it's so easy for you to throw those. But they're like, you say there are certain things they're willing to mention in certain things, they're not willing to mention, and it's always, and it's it's it's always the safest charities. They're not the, and that's what's so inconsistent with Saudi Arabia. Well, it's controversial will go Saudi Arabia. But the PR spin than either is being propagated by people in power or repeated by people who maybe are just repeating it to try to endear themselves to management, whether it's Randy Jerry Lawler, JBL, whomever. This idea that we're going to Saudi Arabia to make positive change. It's like you wouldn't go there if they weren't paying grotesquely above market value for alive of it. So the one thing that you do to try to change the world for the better. That's controversial comes with a possible billion dollar windfall up to a billion dollar windfall. Hundreds of millions of dollars. But when you can do something that makes a difference for people who aren't. The top level. Everybody agree charities like, breast cancer and children's cancer. Where are you? Well, if if LGBTQ had a billion dollars to throw it away at valor would be talking about it. They'd be talking about it. And they'd be talking about the the coming out day. Like you did. So this it just I guess what's tasteful, isn't that charities benefiting? That's of course, always beneficial. Even if it's not a perfect charity. This is an anti charity. It's the WWE wants credit for taking the absolute safest route of least resistance, and then what credit for doing something braver than that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very funny to me. For instance, you look at in the past Ravin damn never go to the tribute to the troops shows that just wasn't his bag, and you would very clearly see on television. He would pay the penalty for that. So I'm very interested to see how Daniel Bryan goes forward in the next few months does magically Samoa Joe now when the WWE title. Yeah. What does he get the Atta boy? No now, I think there's enough of spotlight on this that we could see WWE pushed ain't O'Brien harder than they even planned to in order to prove appoint I'm not sure that's the way they usually work. But this is so high profile and people are so going to be looking for it that I wonder it might be smart. I hate to give them devious PR tips, but mega pushing Danny Brian right now would actually be the the best thing for them to do. But I think internally there's a chance that a good chance that they look at situations. Like this and say we need to send a message to the locker room. We all need to be in lock step and any dissent. Ironically, given what they're trying to change about Saudi Arabia. Any dissent. What will be a price comes for a price comes with any dissent within our ranks. I did to take a page out of your book there traffic, if you weeks ago did a very pragmatic house accords style of view to crown jewel. And the thing I told him, and he was very proud of it because he was like I've been hanging out with him too much is if I were them, and I absolute we wanted to be the winner in this. I would have done a free show in Puerto Rico and given the benefits to the people. What are- cuts awesome? Yes, you have. You have no one could get on you for your putting the show on. You're not putting it on with any of the local affiliated people. Don't have the stench of bruiser or anything like that on you. You look like a million bucks. You lose maybe fifty million dollars. But you gain goodwill that you can't you not even visited man burn through the good. Will you could have gotten through with that? But instead again, that's not a safe charity, quote, unquote. Because currently, you know being in the administration, the president doesn't necessarily want people to look at Puerto Rico. Yep. So that. Have been the smartest thing there. So this is all everything lines up because not only do you not get down. Only. Do you get the Atta boy and the paycheck from Saudi Arabia? You also get the current administration nodding along saying, yes, just like our weapons deals. This is deal. We agree you agree to and you're as a small business, quote, unquote. You should be trying to keep the conferences fullest possible. How much pain how much damage has been inflicted on WWE in terms of goodwill public relations? They spent years trying to build an image as do good corporation taking the safest possible and almost every turn, but they have worked indisputably very very hard trying to portray themselves as more than an entertainment company, but a good corporate citizen doing good for the world beyond bringing smiles to people's faces who go to our shows how much damage has really done here is this one of those stories that people get outraged. But then they go, but I gotta see Rosie against Vicky Lynch. So I'm going to renew my membership too. The WB network. Even though I cancelled in protest, how many people do you think cancel the protests? How many people are going to actually spend less money or watch WB less? How many sponsors are they gonna lose? How what price do they pay because they're when they say this was a difficult decision. That's all they said, they didn't say morally it was difficult. They might have meant that. They didn't say it was a difficult decision to quantify from from a dollars and sense standpoint. But certainly it is it's abstract. It's territory they've been to before but not the exact scenario. So how much of a price? Do you think they really are going to pay for this? And and how much do you think that dictates the decisions I made so far? I think it's as Daniel keister would say, it's more of an opportunity cost situation. We've already gone this far. Does it does it hurt us more dig out or to keep digging? And I think in this case it they did the math and like just keep digging. And eventually sure there at a level, and you've mentioned this for years where they've kind of a road the fan base. To like the most ardent fans. And so when you're down to your most ardent fans, you're gonna have far more forgiving fans of the missteps because their team over player again if I use a football now. So if they feel like Jimmy Butler often says that await no he doesn't. Yes. I would welcome Jimmy Butler to my Knicks. But right now, I'm working. I'm hoping Chris stops. You know, his leg. Doesn't fall off in the next three months. So yeah. But yeah, Jimmy Butler is a great example. You have a guy who has said point blank. This is my show if you got a problem with that. Well, I'm on the team. So until I'm off it. You're not gonna have a problem with the WWE. You know, the fan base is not like you in the stands, you know, raiding throw popcorn Adam as the old person like guffaws and gives you a fist of derision. Most people are going to be like if I'm in the crowd. Most people would be throwing their fits at me. Because I'm the one saying, hey, guys, are why are you cheering Vince McMahon when he comes out for smackdown? One thousand didn't we just go over this last time, he came out you talk about how much the show's not run while you talk about how unfair it is that this person gets pushed this person. But these people are treated this way or this race is for trade a different. But this is no chance in hell comes out your singing along and your balance events and saying that word. What is the and that's what it is. You have these super vans. So I think the payment with the pain from the fans won't be there. Wall Street will be there because they can see the writing on the walls of the repercussions of some of this. But then if you get I am not a quick. So I will not try to dive into it. But a lot of a MAC nations going on on the global market economy that can lead to some financial distress in the next few years that is something they're going to have to pay for. But if you have the Saudi money in your back pocket that you rainy day fund. So how do you feel about what a fan can do WBZ a big part of life? It's a big part of their team that they feel invested in it what? But if they're disgusted or dismayed or disappointed couple Heyman in WWE's decision here. What is the best way to show that WWE keeps track of ebbs and flows networks scriptures. They keep track of how many people view crown jewel. Compared to the first event, and in general, I mean, like is it something that enough to just say yet, I'm going to cancel my subscription for two days or one week to to kind of let them know. I don't even want to be a member when crown jewel air. So I'm gonna cancel Thursday and renew Saturday. And 'cause I've heard people talk about that people have emailed me and said, you know, what what can I do? Here's what I plan to do. And they want to do something to set a message. And then another thing is if you aren't just not going to cancel you just don't watch the event you would normally watch. So if you were ship goes down, and that's tough decision there some big matches that are it's like not watching game five of the World Series of your favorite teams. It's not gained seven. It's not wrestlemainia. But it's not nothing. And if you are you cheating yourself out of something that entertains you recipes you follow and is that fair just because it's in Saudi Arabia. So where are you on this? Oh, well, I won't be watching. I will instead it 'cause it's noon Friday anyway. So I I had the ability to watch. But I I will be doing anything else. And then I won't be watching a replay of it. I figured by Monday. They'll do the still photos that recap whatever was important, which I doubt will be much outside of the w universal championship and the world title, and maybe perhaps title change or to at the tag scene and who won the World Cup to determine the best in the world trade trademark, even with no one's even talked about that, you know, the very fact that Qatar got the World Cup. And so in order to give a middle finger to them. You create cures your wool Cup, and everything you could cuddle, you know, this regime is it it's so for me. I'm just not going to watch it pays it makes no sense for me to do it. I have no interest in being associated with that event. Even you know figure there's someone else either at the torch or elsewhere who's gonna cover it. I'm in. Dead going to spend my lunch hour EMA lunch watching some w x w and marveling and Alan Kuna, Hans near encyclopedia mind when it comes to all things pro wrestling and catch up on the tag league because there are as you know, I'm a big fan of Stephen King and in the in his gunslinger series with the Dr tower is a character Jake, and before he falls, these is there are other worlds than these. And for me with wrestling. That's the same thing there other worlds in these. I don't need WWE as my adult be all but. If that shows that less than one percent of people have changed their viewing habits. Great. If not I know for me personally. That's what I'm gonna do. And you know, there's something else someone thinks it's far more visible. Sure. I'd be open to it. But I just don't see it as something. That's in my wheelhouse. Okay. Let's let's turn the page here in go to something less controversial. Because it's been just what a what a week what a month what a stretch of time for WB. But survivors, here's is right around the corner. Now, I will have some good natured rants about this whole phony brand surpremacy thing that WWE props up for the weeks leading up to survivor series. I will be so happy the day after survivor series or the week after I guess when the nonsense of how some arbitrary matches prove which brand supreme. But but in the meantime, we're just get revved up. We've got a few weeks of this a Lynch and rod Arousa is is I think the most intriguing match that I can imagine that would be brand versus brand match at survivor series. I think this is a great opportunity for both Ronda Rousey and Becky Lynch to impress their fans, and and just WWF yours general in a way that they couldn't with out exactly that opponent. In other words, Ron as a chance to have the match of a career and be challenged on promos by somebody who's going to be really good. I think at if they go face to face at all again at bringing some good problems, even if it's long distance in a day apart. It'll be good. And then Becky Lynch has a chance to elevate yourself to another level because she's going to get the rub against somebody of Ronda Rousey stature. So specifically about Ron and Becky your thoughts on on that match the hype. And if you agree with me that both can stand benefit or benefit a lot from this. And in general. Well, let's let's stick with that. Because I don't want to throw too many. Okay. Well, I just before we get started. I am team blew for life. So just for future booking. If it's not the Blu brand I may have to restrict lead declined during survivor series season. But in your on the Blu brand of the white collar person podcasts. Okay. So that's good. I was happy about that very happy. So in terms of Brandon, Becky, I think it's isn't I love I love breath becky's promo where she said that Rhonda's opponents were always beaten before they got into the ring and you've never face someone who's mentally tough. As I am. And it highlights even with the Instagram Facebook Twitter post, she put up where she said, you know, I went on this journey, and I didn't think you'd come along with me. But thanks, and it's just so great to see her at this level of confidence going up against Rhonda someone who is never going to back down who's she can't call her a do nothing. Becky or anything like that. She's she she is a do something woman. So and even the shirt that's right at age wrestling, I am the man and just. I wanted you know, if I go with step further, I broke Charlotte's arm. Just to take a page out of the old. I broke Awad who's lead teasha. That would be like to be my personal nirvana. But I think this is great because they do have these areas they need like Rhonda's SO teric walked through the tulips interviews, get a little scary sometimes. But I think if she has a focus on Becky and just like when they kind of teased it a little bit with outsca, you have someone who also is domestic of the arm bar. So now, even that could come in conversation who does it the better way, and that this armor versus I don't think Rhonda has an official name for hers, bad just builds. And then you hopefully, I do I just don't want it to be something where it's the invasion situation. I wanted to be like a neutral site kind of a frost Nixon situation, we just sit down and the the moderator is gets the handle them talking to each other. I'd prefer it not being the ring. I'd like it to be something that's a little more edited and directed so that we can kind of keep Rhonda's worse impulses from slide now is like okay exploding. No EMA is not afraid of months say on television. Let's just say. Challenge accepted, you know, things like that. He started talking about smallpox. I was like, whoa. This is I get your angry. But like this is like someone writing the angry yelp review and they've taken five copies and three bottles of wine to figure out what they're going to say. So I don't want that. Rhonda. I want the focus. Rhonda. And I want the focus Becky, and I think that'll make the both look like a million bucks. And I think the both get cheered fr- from a Becky Lynch star boosting opportunity versus Becky Lynch is defined down as as a not in. Rhonda's league in terms of star power. What's more likely to happen? Given the reality of how w WB looks at all stars. How much each of them are paid their in ho Inc. They aren't a long-term planning. And obviously just wrestling fans. I don't think care greatly about Ronda Rousey being anime star versus Becky Lynch being a homegrown WWE star. 'cause WWE fans that makes you a big star. They're taught that you're a superstar from the second you sign a contract even. Anyone knows your name? You're a superstar. And so two fans I think they see Becky a big star but their star. So, but the reality is w management knows what they're paying, and they know what they're paying Becky, and I do not have faith in WWE treating them as equals or seeing this as an opportunity to give a boost to Becky, I worry that Becky just a vessel to move on to the next level. But but I'm not sure. And so I try to be more optimistic in this regard. 'cause I think Becky is is getting such focused so much TV time doing so well, even in the fans cheering her despite the he'll push as much as it might upset WWE in certain ways since message about Becky being a star in the is a fan. So I'm more optimistic than pessimistic that they'll protect Becky here. Where are you? I I'm following on the more optimistic side. And I think when you look at Becky compared to the other women it's really interesting because out of the four horse women of the WWE import. She was the only. Not to win the next title. She was the one that was kind of seen as the other. So when she got up to the main roster, she had already proved a lot to get to this point where she is the first one, not Charlotte. She's the first champion versus champion that Rhonda is going up against it shows one that there is some level of appreciation for her and on at least backstage into this gives her the opportunity to again, just like she has for last three or four months. Forced the issue. If the plans are for her to be a speed bump, she can change that just by being in that match and doing what AJ styles did with Roman reigns. After that, not what they wanted wrestlemainia match against Jericho where Vince McMahon's eyes were open to this guy can go, and she might also be again following AJ's footsteps and do it AJ did when he went up against Brock and champion versus champion. You knew who the corporate guy was. But you also knew that AJ got his Lixin, and he looked the part. And I think I'm not expecting for you know, I'm not under. Illusions that becky's gonna win. But I'm also not under the Aleutians becky's gonna get washed and thirty eight seconds. Like, there's a UFC fight should Becky lose or because Rhonda shouldn't lose as much as I'm a fan of keener upside you don't spend around a loss. Now, not a brand for sprint one off match. But do actually protect Becky in the sense that you have Charlotte or the three of the four horsemen of for three of the four horsewoman of mammalian or fear. Or that's notorious turn like is. There. Do you do an angle to protect Becky in the process of getting through this match? I would and I was working through the machinations of it, and it's tough because if the horsewoman interfere Rhonda loses Q, if it's something where it's the three of them, and somehow Charlotte decides to defend Becky and Bailey, and such join in it's no contest that might work a little better. But getting. To that point would be a little tougher to me. I think it'd be better if Becky just bronzed about a woman on that day. She goes for the disarmer, it's a quick reversal. No shenanigans she taps out the champion nod editor, they content belts and walk into the sunset. It doesn't have to be to dr- doesn't have to be too dramatic for Becky still to be seen as you know, on her level. What I wouldn't want to see though is. Actually, what I would wanna see actually is if they are going to keep going through, especially the way they're portraying shayna it wouldn't hurt for Becky to join the horse women that horse women group and they'd be down. Rhonda. Yeah. Yeah. Leaving behind an annex teach. And she could say those guys left me behind an annex t and I had a quarrel crawl up to so why would I wanna be with Charlotte? I can be with you guys. If there's that that back story that they can tie together, you can make it work. I mean fans don't have a big investment in the four horsewoman of Emma. May I mean, it's it's I I would I would I'd be interested to interview every single fan who attended Ron smackdown. This week and ask how many of them could identify the three women in a lineup, and no even close to their names or know what their nicknames. I mean, it's a tiny percentage. So w w you can tell the story. It's legit. Introduce Becky, and I don't think the ninety ninety five plus percent are going to say that doesn't feel authentic to me because I have nothing authentic to to to to stray from. Because they don't have it set in the Rhine also could be simple as as Italian helps Ronda Rousey win, Ronda Rousey isn't appreciative enough because she didn't need her help. But Italian thought she did because becky's had so many more matches in her and she don't so tough. She is and then to tallies upset with Rawda not being appreciative of her and plants the seed orndorff HOGAN style for something that happens down the line later. So we can come up with twelve other scenarios. I think there is an out. In other words, there's some fun directions. And I suspect me, and this man have something specific in mind at this point. Whether it is like, you said Becky looks great get sixty percent of the offense, but ends up in a bad position at taps fine. You can do something where was her food in the Roper not before the referee. If Becky reaches the rope. But barely touches. It should've been a break before she tap. Just a little bit of an out for Becky to to claim to these MAC doubt audience. I only tapped because the ref didn't see that. I that. I had my foot onto the Roper my hand touched the rope. So there's so many ways you can get out. This. I'm curious if WB bothered to do that. Or if they think no, we just wanna give rod clean win Beck. You'll be fine and becky's not at as level. That's that's a key matched watch survivor series. And key storyline to kinda watch play out. I agree completely. And I really enjoy the idea of it because when Roman did his deal of kind of beaten through people and trying to do the open it kinda smacked a little bit of Johnson the US open with this. I don't feel it being the same vibe. I don't know about you. Wait of when a AJ had to be basically made good in order to be the champion versus champion match with Brock or the make good with him versus Finn. Yeah. Because I remember to situations where that have. And it's just oh, we're going to make this a super show bring over EJ style is just this seems like these two women are on a collision course because they are running through their opponents. Let's see what happens. All right moving away from WWE for a moment. What do you make of Cody Cody Rhodes saying on social media that he is not going to be at the G R away show new show recipe weekend. Also, declaring that he won't be on the next big our, which pay per view. I I think that actually has vanished. But he's saying he will not be taking on Nick oldest for the title when that was brought up. He's giving but also saying he won't on the Jerko cruise. Saying that that he will not be going to WWE. That's not his intent. It seems like those statements lend credence to the idea that he'll be part of some new group. That's being highly backed financially backed new organization that will have some sort of TV clearance to make the type of money would take keep Cody with them, but not are awaiting new Japan and not WWE to to satisfy him in in his financial aspirants to cash in on his fame. But I don't know either could be red herrings being thrown out there. There can be twist insurance. What's your reputation what you've seen in red out there? And what do you think of how Cody is marketing himself and his up? Eventual around the corner here free agent status. I think he's doing a good job. And I think all of them are doing a good job of selling themselves as open to the highest bidder. And I think that's fair. I think it would be kind of people mentioned this WWE with the crown jewel, but I think it's more relevant for actual independent contractors. It would be a fiduciary mouthpieces for them not to at least hear what the office are on the table when their contracts come doing their officially able to receive offers if the rumored super promotion with JR in the bucks and allegedly shod Kahn or shed concern does come to fruition or something of that nature or similar story. Does happen. I think that'd be really good for wrestling. And I think that'd be a good opportunity for him and the bucks because their creativity is important if not more so than the actual wrestling content. They provide I think if you have someone that can figure that out and kind of harness it and focus it and provided on national stage. That would be a good alternative to what the w provides in challenge them to evolve their product, especially as they moved to FOX. What what is the viability of a company to compete compete with WB seems like such a high bar unnecessarily high bar, but the what is the viability of a company to make to to make financial for financial investor for it to make sense for them to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a wrestling company. When WWE is so dominant and do some of the more recent events that we talked about earlier in the show put a crack in in the in the veneer of WWE and make it seem like there might be this Russia fans who want to support a company that they feel better about supporting. I think the biggest issue would be the bandwidth and the ability for whomever is running the organization to maintain the corporate professional organized demeanor that you need in twenty eighteen is a wrestling promoter. Ghana the days we can kind of be a fly by night. I don't think that's gonna work if they're organized look at what they did with all in while that was first time event the hiccups that they had compared to the NWEA when night and day. Well, so if let's say play out the scenario that the NWEA with the end of the name ends up getting massive funding. The Jacksonville Jaguar ownership buys, the w way or buys into it. And they end up on WGN, which is a network that makes sense to throw out there because of the all in Tien, and even variation of that what what what's what's the business plan for a company in that situation? Is it do what w w does try to get make big money on advertising? Drawn big ratings and run live events do international events that pay big money. Do you need to go after a few extra big names? Like, if you're a coat if you've got Cody, and the bucks, let's say you get partially part time use of Kenya. Mega Nicole this like do they need to create a buzz by signing. Somebody else at the level of Finn valor, for instance, to throw name out there where people go, oh, I know him from WWE and he's pretty big star. They're like what combination of things is the critical mass necessary for you to get to a business plan. That isn't just a blip on the map that most people who are fans never even noticed. I think the big thing is sticking to the plan that ring of owner tried to pull off but never quite did. I talk for a while with Sean Radic about the idea of new Japan sing ring of honor as the significant other or this like friend with benefits they'd call up if they needed something. Yeah. And that's what they would want avoid because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So of you get a new Japan involved with you if you get some of the other promotions that don't necessarily have WWE tendrils in them yet that gives you an opportunity to kind of play around with a roster that's going to be more fluid, but also not completely under your control, which on one hand saves on overhead and on the other hand keeps them fresh and keeps your partner happy in terms of bring people on their side of the ledger. Like right now for me. I don't think Nicole. This would do it for a new Japan keeping keeping access to Cody in the bucks, absolutely. So having something to offer some of those other groups and also having some restless offer that might be different like a penta l zero metal Ray Phoenix. They went from the people who were on lucianne ground to now these indie stars that everyone has on their show, and they'll w has them on this show impact has mush you have to find the next person because if you keep using the current person they're going to burn out and eventually go to WTI WB talked last week in financial investor call that they're looking in twenty nineteen and they're excited. I think it was Michelle Wilson co-president who said it. They're very excited about tiered pricing with WWE network as we talk about other companies in competing with WWE WWE's trying to figure out a way to monetize cooperating offering other companies on a network tier evolve. Now that flow slam in that relationship is is over with evolved can kind of go back to the track. It was on before. It looks like it's very much a feeder system for WWE somatic St. wrestlers winning titles. I n evolve and that could end up on a tear on WWE network. Other international brands could be what's the viability of WWE making it worth their while to confuse the pricing structure, which is pretty simple right now. One price you get everything is it worth it for them to complicate that with tiered pricing for different levels. And what realistically is the interest level is as much as w x w we'll get a buzz for great shows. How does does W W B wanna be in the business of getting people excited about ordering a product that is an Cillari overseas? Brand that doesn't look major league with wrestlers who haven't been through the WWE machinery of the performance. Enter annex t to quote, learn how to do things their way. It's funny. You mention that. Because as I was watching it if days ago when Almaz on the deep dive, he recommended a match that they released for free, and they had as who's that? W w I'm sorry, pronouns pronouns. When have you had their tag league, one of the singles matches? They had during the tag league was Iliad dragon versus. Bobby guns? And there was a twenty minute battle chant through the entire match of one half Channing guns. Bobby guns, and then the other half Channing alien a-. And it went without ceasing like they would do spots. They try to shut people up. Shop would not stop. You. Don't want people seeing that because they're going to ask how come I don't see that WWE events. How come people aren't that excited? WWE vents. How come you don't have people losing their minds when drag one is title, the w w w world title, and knowing the story of him retiring, basically in all this other you you don't have it because they don't want it because they don't care about the little details. And when you don't care about the little details. Long enough to become big details that become problems. And I think if you when you inviting evolve in I think it's fine now because of all been raised evolve is now lost so many of the rest. Lers, and so many of the people that made evolved the place to watch to WWE. So this point it makes sense to send some of those people back because there is now where the w x w with the progress with a RPG w with an icy w these are all promotions that have kind of learned to stay in their lane regarding the big one the big shark goes in the water. So you add them to your tears like right now, you pay what ten whatever with tax. It's you know, the ninety nine song and all that kind of gone away because they want to charge us more. I think if you paid fifteen dollars and you added in one or two of those promotions. And if you wanna goes is twenty if yet in all of them that seems about fair because currently I pay seven dollars for progress. Seven dollars for W W. I'm sorry. Eleven dollars ex-deputy end seven for another promotion, I wanna say prop power bomb or something like that. And I feel like I'm getting my money's worth with all those. But if w is gonna try to take stuff away like all of a sudden, you putting a gun to my head and saying you paid nine ninety nine you need to pay fifteen to get to watch inex- T on Wednesdays. I'm gonna say hold up. This is a little ridiculous and also because of the technology. I'm I just pay the ninety nine and find other ways to watch an extent. Yes. Yeah. That to me that the number of people who subscribed in the network because of annex t I think it's higher than a lot of people that a lot of people factor in like, I think if you take annex t away takeover specials on the weekly show. I would be really curious to play that scenario out in a if there was some way to play that out. Then I don't know how they can do it without I should doing it. I'd be curious how many people cancelled I think it's a real. And then just check in for one month wrestlemainia one for for summer slam, but otherwise are fine with Ron smackdown. And online clips, I mean, I read a poll on Twitter, and it was the it was overwhelmingly in extremely important factor. If people responded to my poll scientifically on Twitter, but it was there. It was about very very high percentage saying that annex t was was vital to their keeping their membership around. And I wonder how some of these other groups if they could gain traction and triple h would feel about other companies doing that. I've always been leery of thinking WWE would go all in in promoting brands that were not their own with wrestling styles that are not their own. And I agree with a lot of the rationale behind some of the decisions that they make in terms of the sustainability in logic of WWE style. And there's variations of it within the system right now, certainly Pedone is doing something different than Randy Orton ring style wise, but they're still a WWE ranting and discipline and logic to to what they put on their television. I find it. I find it weird to think men would start promoting styles that that maybe he felt. We're just not abomination behead like sohf such a sharp contrast to the tenants of what he believes makes for smart in ring, storytelling. And it'd be interesting. If you bring those promotions in at this point with the roster as large as it is. Because this isn't a I'm looking at like when Bruce and I look at mid south, and he's working with me through these guys this this person was over because each you'd with this. And he's kinda want teaching me it and we're doing a show where I'm watching. I'm watching it for the first time. No, if you showed me Pete done, and I show you progress Pete done from chapter forty three those are two different people when he's inex- UK or inex- T P done. He's not gonna do the -gistically. He doesn't a crowd as a heel where he's giving them the bird biting people's fingers doing small joint manipulation. And then following that up by you know, kicking people in the nether. He's not gonna do. That on W television. So it's like, wait, wait a minute. This isn't going to be a case of again me being an old person, you know, younger body, brain wise. This isn't a you got your peanut butter in my chocolate. You got your peanut butter. Is you got this really good psychopath over here? You got this guy who I looked now see has been neutered and dumbed down over here. Why can't I see that guy? Why? Or why can't I see the guy in the next match that's threat, then the cut someone's head off with an axe. How come up only see him at access? Why? Where's he and? Oh, he's on M L W one of my watch him L W because he's just as crazy there is progress. So it's really I think their best bet, and I'm sure no one wants to hear that on there. And is the copy what new Japan does where if you have wrestlers that are contracted to you that appear another promotions you show that match. So that way, you're not giving you that person writ large permission to go. Seek out this other promotion, it's just here's something that's important for us that happened somewhere else. Watch. May classic is part of the WWE network layering, I guess of different content and evolution was first chance addition say, well, yeah, it was the first chance for an NFC titled to be feted on a WWE pay per view show. Evolution was a WWE live presentation that incorporated, different brands and different layers of WWE's ecosystem at this point all on one show. How do you think WWE did catching people up on the x t and may on classic competitors in what did you think of their performances and who stood up to you? I really liked the integration. I think especially as you mentioned during the round table, if they do this yearly or BI annually. This would be a great opportunity to kind of do that. And it it gets the middle of the road. You don't think about them you give these women spotlight, and hopefully also give the matches the follow up shows after because it was not lost on me on smackdown. That. There were no move like that was wild to me, and it was also wild. But somehow page was in charge of the women and chain was in charge of the men that. But again, that's a conversation for another day in terms of pollution. I really enjoyed it. I thought the presentation of both of those matches both may young and the next title and even at the when they did the red carpet. Introducing Raya Ripley as the next to UK champion and giving her a chance to speak, even though they haven't even shown that UK women's tournament yet that was strange, but that was also the match. The Mexican crime Travis says only men who like like her because she plays video games and a safe, and I think she's awesome. And if you ever got a chance to watch progress, so w w or somebody other places he wrestles like Japan, she's just as good, maybe a little more vicious, but because of that viciousness she came into the match a lot more injured than she led on. And Allen was the first report on the deep dive that a birdie had told him who happens to where one I black under there is that they were kinda limp into the show and kind of hope for the best in wanting to do the best they could. But I thought that was good. I also thought I love Shane obeys Baylor. I thought that match was awesome. And everything she she gets what it means to be a bad person. And she embraces it. She isn't looking to be cool. She has looking to get hugged. She hasn't looking to find a way for you to say. Oh, wow. Queen of spades. Let's by shirt, she is just the absolute worst and reflects itself in the way, she wrestles and Cari seines method of wrestling reflects itself as a person who will stand up for. What is right? Even if. Physically she feels like she's outmatched. And so I enjoy the heck out of that. And I I would say Finally I was impressed with Nikki, Nikki more than held her own in that meant she wasn't just the other person, and you know, people had made jokes on Twitter mukisa. Woah. Over the years for her as her wrestling style went up and breeze kinda stayed or started to regress. And I thought my biggest concern was there was a spot late met match where she hit her head hard and hit her neck, heart, and Bree instantly, pulled her out of the ring. It was checking on her. I was concerned again, just like what happened a few weeks ago with the rights wad? There was no doctor to check someone who's Hedda historically bad neck after having a spot in which sister's kind of like, what happened aren't rich tell people if they've enjoyed hearing you today, and if they haven't how they can hear more of you. Well, if you haven't just turned it off in an speak of this again. If you if you did enjoy listening to me, you can definitely hear me to actions on Wednesdays. I am the VIP voice with host Travis bribe for the east coast cast, which is not many van friendly. We cover wrestling politics, life, whatever we can bring up. I will warn you Travis talks for a while. I get sleepy things happen. I apologize. But you can definitely do that. And then usually during the free portion if I am available. I'll try to hop on because Cameron and trenice the free for Persian of the show. Sometimes Cam has to go work. So he'll pop off. And I'll try to tag myself in on you can always go to east coast cast, either on Twitter Facebook online and find out more on how you can follow us. But it's usually a great time. Give us a call. And I look forward here. New also on Saturdays. I do the deep dive, which is one hour towards live cash show focused on Saturdays at six PM eastern. On whatever it is. I'm over thinking this week last week. For instance, we went over with Ellen Hannah preview of evolution. But we went from the angle of women who arresting Evelyn and matches. They may have had outside of the WWE. You wanna be familiar with in order to understand them as a wrestler this weekend? I'm going to be doing a show on very excited about which is sliding doors wrestlers or matches or people that either across pats in a company or just missed each other. And some of the missed as a result of that. And sliding doors is one of my favorite movies. So I figured that bigger way to do it. So and then we also get silly. We, you know, will I two weeks I'm going to be reviewing the newest marine movie with one of my friends was film critic. And I love it. We're going to analyze how great an actress Becky Lynch's. And does she earned the spot top villain in the movie? So please join end you could always watch along. I would love to. A watch long. But I don't think I have the stomach to do it because it's gonna it's a lot. It's I've already seen the first couple because my one my my buddy Johnston's complaint was he watched them. And then I would ask him leading questions kind of describe each I suffered through this alone. You're gonna suffer through this with. So I watched them rain movie while I deep cleaned my office. That's that's on. Yeah. Just cut. It looked over every once in a while. And it was like boy, I'm glad I'm getting something accomplished while spending time watching this now twelve rounds I will defend twelve rounds to to my dying day because I thought that was that was pretty decent. And then when I went to New Orleans wrestlemainia last year, I tried to go to as many places as I could that fit that were in the movie, but then I was like, oh, it was filmed, partly in New Orleans and partly and sound lot somewhere. So crap. But any who if you are interested in the deep dive, it's happens every Saturday at six some days, it might move just because my guests sometimes have schedules that don't assimilate lineup. It was always going to be on the VIP. If you go to W towards live cast dot com. You can always find out win each week show is and where the other older shows are and you don't have to listen live. I mean, you can. But just download later. Ninety nine point nine percent of people do anyway. So find it at or just search provos, and torture, you torch on your podcast app one or both will work, and it'll just show up in the feed when you refresh it Saturday night or Sunday. So and there's a good a good bit of archives available to through the website or are assess veto some of those steam sound intriguing. You have not mentioned all of them. But a lot of the shows are evergreen. So it's fun stuff. Oh, yeah. I try not to mention them. All because then people wait. Why did you do a show on, you know, bad news Brown and then follow up with it with whatever silly thing? I might have done the next week. But yeah, there's a ton of my one goal is to get Wade or Bruce on there at some point. But Saturday ever see. I try I try to do some guerrilla reporting with Wade during all in and it failed miserably I tried to sneak it in the production. We're going to get it out. Wade uncovered and it just it just film it self. Yeah. At some point I'm gonna try to get the two luminaries here the towards, but I've had guys like Allen Kuna hand, my partner in crime. He's cast Travis and Cam, she he'd do Hoti from east coups cast of and I also try to bring in a lot of my women and women of color wrestling fans to give a perspective that you don't often see in wrestling. So if you see may at make it loud on Twitter, Kate CR read, my buddy breed who does marketing and stuff for some of the independent promotions. And then she also has her day job and husband and life. So hearing from these women I like to bring in a perspective that isn't my own because I know I have a story, but they have a story to so I look forward to hopefully have more people listen. And if you have more questions, you could always Email. Pete up, UT dive, edgy dot com. And that way if you don't wanna listen live. I can answer your question on the air. Awesome. Rich. Thank you. Did. You mentioned social media. How people can follow you. Oh, I did. You can follow me on Twitter at rich underscore fan. FA n if you wanna follow me on Twitter outside of that. It'd be east coast cast or same thing on Instagram Facebook. I would say it's pictures of my kid. So unless you wanna see trae, it's, you know, you're fine just Twitter. Awesome. Follow us on social media too at PW torch, and it can follow me at the weight Keller on Instagram at W torch, and in on Facebook at Wade Keller torch, and you can like our brand Facebook dot com slash p w torch. Awesome, rich. All right. So tomorrow, we're going to have an X WWE creative team member on to delve into women's wrestling in particular evolution. We've. Spent a little bit of time on that here at the end of the flagship, we're gonna go deep into Evelyn on interview Friday, so refresh your podcast feed here for the way pro podcast. And then if you've noticed we didn't get to the mail bag on the flagship so much breaking news. So that means bonus mailbag Saturday. We're gonna do it again. I've had great although number. She guys really liked the the the Mellberg segments. Keep by the way, sending in good emails when when it's Monday Tuesday Wednesday, that's the time to send any meals for the flagship show because we usually record on Wednesday afternoons, so if you have question for the flagship any week broad range of topics doesn't just have to be what happened in WWE the past couple of days, just it all along to wake Keller podcast at PW, torch dot com. That's Wade Keller podcast at P w torch dot com. So thanks to rich. Check him out on the deep dive episode of the penal new torch live cast available late Saturdays and all they Sundays. We'll really anytime. But I draw. Saturday nights. And you can check that out over the weekend. Deep dives into single topics. Fascinating topics just not gonna hear somebody get into the type of depth that that rich does or even cover some of these topics ever that rich does with his special guest is really cool format. It's cool show. Hopefully, if you haven't yet, you'll subscribe, just search pro wrestling torch or PW torch in whatever podcast app that you're using. And you'll see the POW torch casts logo. It's mostly white with Peter torch on it and click subscribe in you're good to go a new show every day a new show every day with different theme each day of the week covering our wage impact. 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Representation Matters in the Tiny House Movement: Talking Diversity and Inclusion with Jewel Pearson  #077

Tiny House Lifestyle Podcast

41:26 min | 11 months ago

Representation Matters in the Tiny House Movement: Talking Diversity and Inclusion with Jewel Pearson #077

"Producer director everyone was great to work with and the I would say the show actually exceeded my expectations because it was really eh weird and uncomfortable during filming like just felt weird sometimes repeating themes and and you just felt awkward in none that awkwardness came across in in the show so I actually I think my experience was better than I expected. There were so many times people reached out because because they said they hadn't seen a person of color in a tiny house and so that was something that drew them to the episode threw them to the movement in an ad people reached out to me from different countries and that's been really pull because they've seen the episode so it definitely be exceeded expectations. Welcome to the tiny house lifestyle podcast the show where you learn how to plan build and live the tiny lifestyle. I'm your host Ethan Walden and this is episode seventy seven with Jewel Pearson. I've been wanting to have jewel on the show for a while because she is leading the conversation on inclusiveness and diversity in the tiny house movement. There are a lot of issues with housing in the United States and there's been systemic racism built into our housing system and financial structures for a long time. I think it's important that as we build the tiny house movement we keep these things in mind and try to prevent the tiny house system from reflecting the system at large jewel is a wonderful wonderful interview guests and we talk about a wide range of topics from her tiny house and the special features inside of it along with all the issues that I just mentioned and and jewel has some great suggestions on how we can all move forward. I hope you stick around because it's a great conversation but I I wanNA tell you about our sponsor for today's episode the Tiny House Forum. Are you frustrated by how fragmented tiny house information nation is online tiny house form an online community for exchanging information ideas and resources related to the tiny house movement all in one central location at tiny house forum. You can have conversations with others who are interested in the tiny house lifestyle those currently living tiny house lifestyle and tiny house businesses and organizations organizations that can provide guidance along the way tiny house forum dot com one hundred percent free to use and joining his easy head on over the tiny house forum dot com to participate -ticipant in the discussions or start a new topic of your own today if that didn't already sound great right now you can enter to win five hundred dollars cash by joining tiny the House Forum and making your first few posts learn more about the contest at tiny house forum dot com where you can sign up and be entered to win five hundred dollars cash again again that tiny house forum dot com where you can sign up to be entered to win five hundred dollars cash all right. I am here with Joe. Pearson jewel is a tiny house advocate community leader and speaker sharing her tiny living experiences offering consulting services and teaching workshops to assist others in achieving their tiny living dreams jewel is also also the founder of tiny house trailblazers a duo of powerful and uniquely talented women of Color who are a voice for real community and inclusion within the Movement Joe Pearson Welcome to the show. Thank you very much for having me. It's great. It's great to finally have you on I was curious. I actually just wanted to start with with your tiny house story. You know what what brought you to the movement and you know what what was it that really made you decide to jump in and build a tiny house so my story is kind of. It's been something that I've known I wanted to do since my daughter was very young as a single mom and have it. It'd be so responsible. My dream was that once she was brown I'd have the opportunity to live life a little irresponsibly with with a whole lot less responsibility and requirement and as she was growing up my thought process was that it would be an RV in the night float around the country living in an RV and then as the time closer and I started doing a little more research into RV's these the ones that I like the price point wouldn't allow me to be less responsible. I was really going to have to work to pay for them. So just over the course of Tom as I was trying to figure out how I was going to get that lifestyle I stumbled on tiny houses and then decided that I was going to build one so this in a how I landed into the movement and the tiny house that you did and building is very much custom. I'm to to your needs and wants absolute. You know the tours. I'll definitely linked to a couple of tours that I like on the show notes page age okay but why don't you want you tell us about some of the unique features and things that are different about yours versus what you see another tiny houses so definitely definitely unique to me and design for me going into it. I knew that in order for me to be successful the house was going to have to meet my needs versus trying and to go into something and and adjust to it in so my sister assisted me with the initial design in just paid going went into paid a lot of pretension to how I use my spaces that I lived in in my requirements and so my house has a full size bathroom it has a full-size out walking closet. I have a signature round window that you can kind of see over my shoulder. Lots of windows does and light because that's really important to me and more of an open space so that it didn't feel closed in but just made sure that it worked everything that I needed from a home yeah and what's the overall dimensions so it's twenty twenty eight by but is my house my twenty eight by eight six yeah twenty eight and then. I've got a an additional input spring import the interior spaces about three hundred sixty square feet. If I counted to law and I I like in the video you said it's three hundred three hundred sixty square feet of tiny house luxury house luxury yes. It's also just I like. I know most people who are just going to here this. They're not gonna you know we're seeing each other but you you look like you have a really strong sense of style and the House itself just the way that it's decorated. It's clear that the the owner slash occupant has a strong sense of style I i. I would like to say that I do for me it. It's more than a house at home and it's the thing that Brown's me and centers me so it has to represent on me and a lot of the decor it's things that I've had for many years in my largest spaces so as I was going into into designing it I want to be able to include that because those pieces are what make for me so it's the continuation of what started years years ago and it's the thing that still feels like home because all of my you know my favorite pieces are still here Nice. You mentioned in one of the videos that I watched that. A mistake that you made was in terms of figuring out what the house else would cost. Can you talk about you know what caused that that mismatching in expectation and what you advise to people to do you oh absolutely so when I first bought my home. The movement is so I've been in my house four and a half almost four and a half years though the movement was very early on and the movement was focused very much at that time on minimalism and there were very few houses that were of largest size or with a lot of minute and so I was trying to compare because I didn't have I didn't have build experience and I was trying to figure out what my Home Office and was comparing it to one of the larger owns at that on that did have a little more of a a little more amenities than I guess the other houses at the and not factoring in because again. I didn't have the build experience. Is that the person that it built that home built it over the course of maybe almost two years they had done all of the work themselves and I was building ending using all contractors. My build lasted about three months once we started building so there was rushed material there there was an hour sourcing all the material so I was. I didn't have the you know the benefit of discounts and things that builders often are able to incorporate so so it was really comparing apples to oranges when I in hindsight when I looked at their cost versus what I what my home cost in in hindsight like my father was dead on based on the fact that you know my my parameters were different. I use the use of all contracts Tom. Line etc but I didn't know I know that going into it so my home at that point I kind of. I thought I'd even factored in some cushion based on you know they were going to be differences. In my house versus that bill that I was hearing and it was totally off I have I think seventeen or eighteen windows and windows very quality windows. Those are very expensive so it was just the inexperienced of a new bill dernier not understanding how to compare really apples to apples so I was comparing apples pulsa oranges in Austin. Everyone now going into it especially. I you know I post worked up to make sure that what you're comparing to is really equivalent of what you're building building or either insult. You know an expert that can help you with figuring after off yeah. I actually ran into a similar issue in that. I was pretty dead on with the material costs but I was like I'll just do all the labor myself and you know as a a novice builder. There were certain pieces of the project that I just couldn't do Ryan the speed that I was working at. I realized that it just if if I didn't hire some help I risked having the project just never be done exactly yeah yeah and and I always tell people you know when you see the price tag of a tiny house that's built by a builder. It seems so astronomical compared to what you can do by yourself off but you also have to factor what your own time is worth. You know if you're working. If you have a decent job you might actually be better off paying somebody else for their time versus using your own right and then you know if you're doing it yourself. You haven't built anything then. You've got to factor in mistake then you work and all you know purchasing new material because you've messed something up so you really gotta understand what the cost is going to end up being based on whether you're doing it on the practice of doing it you know a combination so there are a lot of factors that have to be considered and like you said a builder you know depending on your. Tom Line and and I had a very big online there was no way I could have done anything myself in the Tomlin that I need right and sometimes there's like. Did you have like a specific diffic- deadline like you had to be out of the place. You were living by a certain time or something like that. My lease was ending and I really didn't want to extend extended month to month can be very very expensive so I didn't want to go into that. Situation is really trying to get everything done before my lease was up and and then I was also on HGTV and so trying to fit within that deadline added some some different not I don't WanNa say stress what it added some different urgency to what we were doing because initially before I had signed up to beat on the kind of thought well based based on my finances. Maybe I'll build a certain point and then live in it and finished the build out and in hindsight. I'm so glad I didn't do that because I realized that would that would would've driven me insane trying to build around my living space so you know things work out like they're supposed to be but you just have to know going into it. In what what you're really looking at what they're really considering yet just building inside of the tiny house when not living there is hard enough like doing finish work. I could not imagine working on a tiny house and living there at the same time exactly I learned that so the first year in I had to have I have a microwave from Becton of in Combo Unit and I had to have its service and so they had take it down and built up into the cabin so they had to take it down to service it and out and the dust and everything that ended up happening because that was like the end was so frustrating to me like I had to clean the entire house because dust just went everywhere and I was thinking you you would have never lasted trying to build and live in the same space so I agree a hundred percent. I'd like to hear more about the the experience being on HDTV. I'm curious what you what were your motivations for doing it and did they meet. Did it meet your expectations stations to the experience. Live up to what you thought it would be like. I don't know that I had expectations going into it other than this was a cool opportunity to end. It would give have some exposure I didn't realize exactly how much exposure would get or me. HDTV was they really just follow follow the bill and they didn't add any of the you know there's some other shows that Kinda add some drama around building in there during the building but they were really chronicling our experience and my film crew the producer director everyone was great to work with and the I would say the show actually exceeded my expectations because it was really weird and uncomfortable during filming. It just felt weird. Sometimes are eating teams and and you just felt awkward in by the end. We didn't even get to see this show before it happened so by the end result result in watching this show none of that awkwardness came across in in the show so I actually I think my experience was better than I expected. I'm going through it and then the exposure was fabulous because there were so many times that people reached out because they said they hadn't seen a person of color in a tiny house and so that was something that drew them to the episode of drew them to the movement in an ad people reached out to me from different countries and that's been really pull because they've seen the episode so it definitely expectations what's great. I'm glad I'm glad to hear it. I've I've heard mixed things about being on reality television in general so I'm glad that it was a good experience overall. Yeah I think so without calling out names. I think there's one show that people have a better experience on in Endo that the horror stories that I've heard have not been associated with this show that I that I was on all right. We can leave it there absolutely before I get in trouble yeah yeah. I don't know what what contractual agreements agreements you have done. I just told anybody who's she said on yes. I'd like to tell you a little bit more or about our sponsor. For today's show tiny house forum dot com founder Chuck Canfield became interested in tiny house living after attending a festival in twenty eighteen but was disappointed when he couldn't find central online resource for exchanging information and encouragement with other tiny house hopefuls dwellers and builders so he assembled assembled a team of talented web developers tiny house forum was born tiny house form is dedicated to inspiring and nurturing all who are interested in furthering their knowledge of the a tiny house revolution and right now you can be entered to win five hundred dollars cash by joining tiny house forum and making your first few posts you can learn more about the contest attest and sign up at tiny house forum dot com. Thank you so much tiny House Forum for sponsoring our show well. I feel like that's a good segue a into tiny house trailblazers at what is tiny house trailblazers so it's an opportunity for representation in the movement going into the movement. I didn't the early on I didn't see anyone. That looks like me on that. Wasn't that kind of been my experience. Here is growing up in through school aided in it never deterred me from the fact that this was a dream that I wanted to achieve as I started hearing comments from other people once the episode aired realized how how much and how important representation was for people to see other people like them in they were interested in in order to know that you know that was something that they could be. I guess almost in giving them permission to be interested in the movement and so tiny house trailblazers is that representation is show that you know people of Color Black people black women lack of people are here in the movement people of Color Color in the movement and then it's also been more of olding space because as you know I realized we were here but we weren't represented and some of the challenges that I run into within my tiny experience as a black woman living in tiny house and I try to share that with the larger tiny house community with the people I guess everyone would all the leaders in the community and have those conversations around inclusion it wasn't really Mitt well and so then I decided in realized that there was no use in trying to fight but go off and do my own thing like I said Bill my own tables and Dominique Moody worked with me with tiny house trailblazers. We've we've worked a lot with leap. Era has some conversations around the need for representation in inclusion and to make sure the conversations are be hat and so the it I would say it's more of inclusion in holdings fates for those who've never maybe heard the term holding ending space. What is it what would it mean to hold space in the tiny house movement so making sure the conversation is represented to make sure that people see see that that that people are here so that you don't get lost in the in the overall big picture and you only see just a couple you'll you'll hear tidbits so you see a couple of people and you don't really know that that people of Color your black people are here and here's a stint in space so that we can have conversations bad are necessary and that are different from from the larger tiny house conversation for example the when I right after I built my house? I moved my house fully in our community and I not you know I'm gung. Ho in the movement and not thinking about it from the perspective above on black in the tiny house community or I'm black in an RV community and I ran into several instances of racism in the community and and then you know always you people say well. If you go look racism you'll find racism. Racism found me because I was a black woman living in a tiny house in an rb community and when it happened I was floor because it wasn't. I didn't have my my radar on as I normally would and so then it hit me that you know as we're trying to push for tiny houses be accepted in communities than right now. The the most wealth with space for tiny houses are rule areas in rb community and even those are challenges for white people people in the tiny house movement if even more of a challenge for a person of color poor black person because on top of the fact that we're still pushing for tiny house acceptance. I have have to also factor in that. The places that I knew houses are most accepted in aren't they spaces for people of color always and so that that you know that was something that those conversations need be have had and as I tried to an even a I'm house event that have been in rural areas and I've run into racism attending those events just in that area. It's and it's not an experience that anyone else in the tiny house community that that is not of color would even know think about and so my I was to try to bring that to the table for conversations stations to say hey you know we've got to be thinking about this than in the selection of venues and I get that these been used needs to be out in these rural areas as for space for the campgrounds or baseboard the tiny houses for fear but as you're planning it make sure that in your are planning you are accommodating you know if you have to bring extra or you have to have some awareness in the area like for example the the the event that in that arena to using the racism one of the people that have been associated with the event that okay we kind of know that area and it known or those issue will as a person of color as a black woman attending the event. That's something that I would need to know for my personal state and so those were the conversations that I was was trying to have to say you've gotta factor these things in as you're planning any if there's if there's an area that that is known for racism then as you're you're opening your event to diversity and inclusion you need to make people aware for their personal safety before something happened and so again you know it was met with deaf ears and I just decided instead of fighting for that less often have these conversations because they are necessary conversations and they're very you know important compensations since for my everyday life and for other everyday life so holding face means having a place where those conversations are welcome in those conversations so being at thank you that's that's really helpful as just a just an explanation and it's unfortunate that it sounds like that was taken more as criticism than than just as opportunity to make the events better for everyone absolutely yeah. I mean even for the point of representation if your entire speaker panel looks like you. There's something wrong if you don't have representation of people who don't look like you men all men all white men or all white people when you don't have representation of people of color other backgrounds if you don't have if your conversations aren't representing other conversations that need to be had been there's a problem so as we try to address this leaking speak to this it was met with almost hostility and that was very disappointed me because I didn't expect it. I I thought going into the movement as we're talking about you know shaking up the you know the People's. dynamics were living in people. We'll have to think outside of the box comedy any houses but you're not willing to think outside the box as far as what this community looked like that was disappointing to me because has really status quo you just. WanNa live in a smaller house but you still want to have the same parameters or or dynamic accustomed to enlarge. I think there's there's an opportunity here for for more empathy because I see parallels here with just nationally what what has happened in housing laws and in housing movement and how people of Color have been you know marginalized literally by the laws for so long long redlining absolutely lighting and and I think what's interesting. Is that everyone in the tiny house. Community is now experiencing a little bit more stigma than there used to like absolutely. You can't get a loan for a tiny house. You can't park a tiny house wherever you want and it's almost like this is this is the experience that certain people have been having in housing in general for a long time a great and so it's it's unfortunate that it's kind of like almost mirroring and that other system rather than creating a new a new paradigm exactly and I think that that was what was so disappointed me because has I thought it was a new movement in an opportunity to do things better indifferently into to take learn some lessons from how things things have been done previously and and build a new and to understand that no we just WanNa pay certain things that we want to fight for but this other stuff. We're not willing in kit. Listen in that right. We'll has any progress been made. I mean are are things getting better or I mean. Maybe not I think I would say that no as far as far as the events that happened throughout they still look like they look but as the movement and the movement and as the movement frozen was in more people join the movement people. Are you know they're more black people people of Color joining the movement conversations being had and people it just kind of doing their own thing in you know recognizing that there is a difference in the people who want a listen and be involved in the conversation are are having the conversation it's unfortunate that I guess the the mainstream of of how the movement started in the people that were involved in in that early on haven't come around to it but you know that neither here nor there. That's not my issue anymore. I'm I'm gone onto other stuff and other people who want to be able to have this conversation necessary. Yeah and I think that there's the the tiny house. Movement can mean so many different things to different people. You know some people might say that the tiny house movement is the festivals and other people might say that the tiny house movement is the people who are traveling in tiny houses all the tight but you know like you and I don't go to a ton of festivals. We don't travel on our tiny houses yet. We're we're still a part of the tiny house movement and I think that's what a movement is about and that was one of the things that stuck with me early on because people people wanted the tiny house movement to be debited but they had so many rules as to what the tiny house movement was like. You weren't supposed to build a house of this. Is this cost and they were like just so many rules in it's like how do you. WanNa put rules around. What a tiny house is what the movement is about but you want people to be accepting accepting of something. That's different. You know that kind of the you're doing the opposite of what you are asking other people to do so I'm I'm right. There with your movement has on a change in a movement. That's you know the whole definit- definition of movement as new people join. It's gotta change because those people are going to you. You know impact night yeah well. What are some of the opportunities that are there in the tiny house movement of meant for for everyone. I'm I'm thinking of things like building wealth lowering. You know reliance on debt. How has maybe we can kind of steer it back to how how has tiny house living kind of improved your life so that's one of the things that that. I like to talk about as well. You know the if you know anything like you were talking about the red lining in home ownership in how on homeownership stack up and who's you know who mostly owns home I've used as an opportunity really to talk about that or people of color yet what any houses are and I've always said that you know it's an easier spell to talk about a tiny house if already had a larger home and realize that it's made me not all cracked up the the re what you thought it was and you want to downsize. That's an easier sell to to consider a tiny house versus. Someone who is not had who is still thriving ore own home ownership or you know what everybody sees as the American green so that the to what I've tried to do is share my experience ensure the opportunity because there's a tiny house doesn't have to be like the you know a whole lot of work and and less than and and I have a stigma associated with a tiny house can absolutely be what my tagline is. You don't have the luxury to go tiny so I've wanted to share that from the perspective of eating home ownership quicker it definitely allows that allowing you spend more time in living life verses hang bills and and having for work if you if you if your bills are less than you are able to spend more time time in life versus having to work at a job in blocking and so that experience is something that I want people to get the fact back that so I just recently moved my home. I've been here for a month in on a farm in what we're working on building a an Agra Hood community around the farm and the conversation is there they are farms available people of color have farms and so the conversation on how to Bill Oh community around tiny houses as part of an Agra Hood and home ownership in helping you you know even if the the farm owner is interested in living in a tiny house but you're allowing an opportunity for those people to live on your farm so you're allowing them have their tiny the home theater they are helped me financially and so it's a shared experience in that how wealth-building happens for you know the land owner for the homeowner in for people to get out of debt for me. It's been a process in being able to live that freer lighter lifestyle. I don't have a home mortgage on paying for light rain. I don't necessarily surly want a own land because I don't want to really be anything but my house is paid for in so that you know that the bonus that I was able to to meet that would have taken me with my you know the home that I own the thirty year mortgage and so those conversations so they are able to get to you know less sir. My entire dream was to be able to be in a position where I choose a job based on Mike Pence's versus choose a job based so Mike Pence's versus my expenses choosing the for me you know the amount of money that you have to make to pay for these expenses determines type of job that you have to to pay and I wanted to do that completely opposite field to make decisions on interest I know because my expenses aren't dictating those kinds of things and so that's the the opportunity that a tiny houses provided for me yeah. Those are all really great points. I wanted to follow up and ask about Agra. Hood is that like agricultural neighborhood absolutely absolutely so we're in the development stages but that's exactly what it is building a neighborhood around agriculture around a farm and it's being done in other places even with large sites owns where you know everybody's doing the the farm to table experienced at this point that what we are attempting to build on a smaller scale was smaller homes and just as a prototype right to hopefully show that it can work into p interest as people are looking into you know living smaller are in in more even more so from perspective in knowing where your food is growing and being able to be involved in that farm from two tiny arms. I like that. I have to remember that all right. You can have that one thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much so you do a lot. I'm I'm looking at things things I do on your website tiny house owner and advocate consultant project manager designed and professional build services contractor Management Material Sourcing Author Editor Downer of Tiny House trailblazers so that's a that's a big list of things that you do for people I try. I really so for for me. I think I discovered passion. moving into this because I love my home. You know it hasn't been without its challenges like right. Now I feel you like I'm in the challenge with having relocated to this new space than having put in the infrastructure and getting my house that back up so that you know all of that is is is a challenge. It's not cheap is not you know without a lot of art work but it's something that makes me feel good especially to get to the end result into his his t you know we're here and now we're moving on to another project and I realized that not everybody knows out to do that and so to be able to offer board that assistant that other people has been something that I realized was a gift in in so that where I am what open door awesome oh one thing that I like to ask all my guests is what are two or three resources like books or even like people youtube channels that that helped you along the way that you'd like to share wow and now I can't think of my My go-to book This is awful. I needed some preparation for this. I had a I call them my tiny House Bible. It was just oh I can't think of the author's name. I can't think it's a complete blank right now. It's okay I I. I'm bad I always throw this question of people without notice I have to I'm gonNA email you. I'm so embarrassed I can't can't remember. The name of the book or the author can probably guess since you're you started like four or five years ago. Was it Dan Louche. Thank thank you thank you thank you yes. I was like it was on the tip of my tongue. That was my Go-to Book Yeah Brian. It broke everything down. Even I didn't build the old my home that way. It helped me be able to have the conversations with my builder. died helped me understand the stuff that he was talking about. It helped me understand and the things that had done a bill and it was an easy read like though I had my bookmark than it for stuff that I needed to remember and I actually told from that when I met him. He was just like that was my book and I actually have two of them because I thought lost mine and quickly ordered another one and then it earned back up but that was my Go-to book I also what the forbidden does from the Morrison to from the ground up in just going through a bill there was a a very very long white but then it it helped just Kinda like Dan's book put it all together about a bill in the and starring Claire and that's such a great point that you just made that even if you're not gonNA build the House yourself to to arm yourself off with a little bit of knowledge and you know both Dan's book and the Morrison's are both you know reputable experienced people so oh you can you can watch those and then when your contractor is doing something that is funky. You're gonNA notice and say. Why are you doing this this way right right. That's what I in my consultations so I always feel like if you're working with a reputable reputable builder and you're able to kind of walk away and and and know that they're going to build like suppose we built then you don't have to arm yourself with that knowledge me going into it because I was it was a new movement. There weren't builders the tiny house builders at the time I end my mind is I'm a project manager. Salon mind operate in. I need to know everything from agency so the the book and the videos provided that opportunity so that I can design an no as it was being built that it was built the standard that I need built built and so it was absolutely valuable knowledge and then just you know over the course of on like I said a sports all material the bill so I can tell you every piece of material. It's in the house how it was bill. I was I did have the luxury of being on fight. Every day as the bills was happening so that dat knowledge you know bond with the research that I've done just has led to the passion that I have now because I'm you know I don't necessarily do do a lot of the physical work but I know how it's supposed right and just thank you for sharing all that and I'm sure that people who do get to work with you. You are very grateful for what you what you can bring to the conversation. Thank you thank you for me because I would have been so upset if I couldn't come up with the book you know I'm GONNA as an action item from this interview. I'm going to start giving my guests a heads up because I I'm not like trying to send a throw a Gotcha question anyone and have them stumble so yeah. If not memory was better I would have gotten it right then because I knew it. It's like the front of the book. I actually just looked at the book the other day and I was like someone dual. You know it is in the name of the book the thank you for saving. You're welcome well Joe Pearson. It was so wonderful to meet you and thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you thank you so much for having me you can find the show notes from today's episode including links to Jules website and social media profiles as well as the resources that she mentioned at the tiny house dot net slash zero seven seven again. That's the tiny house dot net slash zero seven seven. I WanNa thank Joe Pearson for being a guest on the show today and also a big shout shout out to this week sponsor tiny house forum dot com and one other note. If you have a question that you'd like meet answer on the show head over to the tiny any house dot net slash. Ask where you can submit a question. I'm accepting questions of any kind from design to building to lifestyle things so head on over to the tiny house dot net slash. Ask If you have a question that you'd like answered on the show well. That's all for this week. I'm your host. Ethan Waldman and I'll I'll be back next week with another episode of the tiny house lifestyle podcast.

House Forum Tiny House Joe Pearson Tom Line United States Producer founder Jewel Pearson Ethan Walden community leader director round window project manager Mike Pence Austin Ryan HGTV
Kent Alexander & Kevin Salwen, "The Suspect"

The Sporting Life with Jeremy Schaap

20:03 min | 8 months ago

Kent Alexander & Kevin Salwen, "The Suspect"

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FDIC this is the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN APP on. Here's Jeremy Sharon just a few weeks. A new major motion pictures they always say is going to be released directed by Clint Eastwood. It is Richard Jewel and it tells the tragic story of the Security Guard at the one thousand nine hundred ninety six Olympics who was initially hailed as a hero for saving being lives at the Centennial Olympic Park bombing and then became a suspect he was eventually cleared but it had a devastating overstating effect on his life. New Film again. Is Richard Jewel directed by Clint Eastwood. It's coming out in the second week of December in one of the sources for the film is a book by our next guests. The book is suspect in Olympic bombing the FBI the media in Richard Jewel. The man caught in in the middle. It's a long title and the authors. Are Ken Alexander and Kevin Sal when they join us now. Can't let me start with you because because we're going to do this now medical order and I can't see either of you Have you had a chance to see the film which is based at least in part on your book. Doc We have warner brothers is Kinda have to fly in our wives out last week to the premier and what did you think thought it was phenomenal. which is we both love? The film I'll arrives to Kevin. Of course you know when these things happen you know a film over. The course of a couple of hours can only tell so much of the story and sometimes it only conforms to a certain degree with the actual story in the interest of of Digestibility storytelling so forth Does the film captured the spirit of the story. The True Story. Oh absolutely Clinton's does a wonderful job of capturing the idea idea of this unsung hero gets caught in the crosshairs of the FBI and the media to the most powerful forces in our society and and You know in broad strokes absolutely. It's not a documentary feature film and the and it's it's delightfully entertaining for that for that point again the book is suspect acting Olympic bombing the FBI the media and Richard Jewel. The man caught in the middle and tells the story of what happened in the summer of Nineteen Ninety six the bombing at Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta Richard Jewel. A security guard saving lives Initially hailed as as I said as a hero then he becomes a suspect The media single tim out his his life is then in turmoil mm-hmm oil in worse. I I was there that night I was working for. NBC Sports at the Olympics. I remember being awakened to in the morning by my boss working on the Olympic Nick morning. Show saint everybody's gotTa get in the initial reports were that many many people were killed. I think ultimately the the death toll was one one one person killed in the bombing itself. A cameraman suffered a fatal heart attack on his way to to cover the instant. Do I have that right right right. And one hundred plus injured with shrapnel. Really a tragic situation. How did Richard Jewel go so quickly? Can't from being a hero to being a suspect. Well here's a hero can helps Alerted authorities. He did alert authorities cleared. Everybody lies in Europe for a couple of days. He went to became a suspect when call started coming in from about including from his former employer whereas campus cop up in North Georgia college and then and there was a profile of came in people started thinking about the nineteen eighty-four Olympics when a police officer down what he claimed was a bomb and a Turkish bus ran ran away with it. Put it somewhere else. Save the day but he turns out he planted it and he wanted to be a hero bomber and win at the FBI did a profile. Actually Justin Donald Falls and then it showed up in the local paper and then broadcast all sorts of media. People just jump to the conclusion rush the judgment that he was absolutely the bomber and the way it went Kevin. I I remember at the time as I said I was working for. NBC Sports is a writer there. I remember One of the big moments it's Kind of as this narrative was unfolding was was Tom Brokaw on the air. Speaking specifically about Richard. Jewell what what happened in that in that that situation well. Tom Brokaw Using his own sources Went on air and Essentially said I won't get the words. It's quite a one hundred percent right. But he essentially said they have enough to arrest him. They have enough to charge him. And now what they need is enough to convict victim. which in in Really in many ways was just a remarkably damaging thing to say. I mean it took it from it. took the story from being a local story The piece of dirty been on CNN. That that Richard Jewell was a suspect. But now Brokaw was taking this to another level altogether of actually putting Richard Jewel in a courtroom and And actually studying him up for potential conviction and and You know this propelled the story in a way the media narrative is just kind of remarkable. In this whole thing. You know in many ways. It's very much a a pro. A priest social media social media story. I mean this is nineteen ninety six you know the CNN's already up and running. I said but MSNBC you see and Fox News Channel Come on the air that year and the Wall Street Journal The New York Times and bunch of other publications go online for the first time. And so now you have this this Essentially this media scrum. That's very much like today's social media society a massive failure. Oh you're on the part of the media Ruining Richard Jewell's life is. That is that too strong to put it that way. Kenner is or is that what happened. Well I'd I'd say scarring his life what we do in the book as we We got to do is a rock and roll singer before all this happened. And he has a twisting and turning life with Some interesting reveals down the road along with the reporter and broke the story and the agent made the case. That wasn't so he is is we follow his life through we find find out ruined might be too strong a word but scarred forever is absolutely and you can't go through an experience like this now have your name just splattered uttered by like his was and his his mom to Bobby Without having lifelong effects so he had lifelong effects but Some of the things that happened after after the bombing were pretty entertaining. We had a little happiness in there too. We're speaking with Ken. Alexander and Kevin Salman the authors of the book suspect and Olympic bombing the F. B. I.. The median Richard Jewel. You'll the man caught in the middle. There book is one of the source materials for the new film. Richard Jewel directed by Clint Eastwood which is coming out in early early December and eventually FBI clears Richard Jewel. And he's exonerated. What does he get for all of his trouble? Does he get anything Kevin. Well I mean first of all. He's not that can't By the CO author here Mike here here is the guy who actually wrote the clearance letter for Richard Jewel You know so it was the Justice Department that actually had kind of orchestrated this through the FBI and and and a bunch of other Agencies and such to to get Richard Formerly formerly non targeted No and Richard did not have a way to sort of get back at the FBI. What he What he and his lawyers did was to go? Oh after the media and try to collect liable cases late libel case money from them he used smoke Tom. Brokaw and in your experiences at NBC WELL NBC was a prime target for four Richards lawyers and he won over a half a million dollars in a settlement with them. He sued CNN. He Sued The New York Post and And the big case was against the Atlanta Journal Constitution which broke the initial story and That was a case that ended up going for more than a decade and and In the end Richard Jewell's Team did not win that case they actually lost that case can't as a former the US attorney The way this case played out. What are the lessons here for people in law enforcement twenty Three years later to come to mind. I is the obvious. One don't leak Someone in law enforcement. We disclosed in the book who that was surprise me even though I was there at the time surprise everybody in law enforcement. I know but that's that's just something that shouldn't happen the head of the FBI. Louie Freeh they had in the Atlanta office does everybody was pounding this over this lake so Warren Doley Number number two. I would say and I hope this to take away from this case for law enforcement mm-hmm and media to recognize there's always a human being at the end of any investigation and he charged any claim that someone is a suspect and the fact that young people see what the human toll was on Richard Jewel in the spoke in the movie to I think is an important takeaway just to think twice before you out. Somebody in that especially goes for anybody would ever consider leaky. Kevin as you know as as someone who's worked at some of the top newspapers in the world world going back and looking at the way. This was mishandled by the media if you were teaching classes journalism school based on the coverage of the Richard Jewel case. Yes we'll be. We'll be the lessons. I mean can't mention some of them. What would be the things you would want to emphasize your students about how to do it right first? Things first the story that the Atlanta Journal Constitution ran to to say that Richard Jewel was the lead suspect of the FBI was an accurate story. That's story itself. Richard Jewel was indeed the lead suspect for the FBI. You can have a lot of discussions newsrooms and journalism schools about whether there you should run that story before anyone is arrested or charged but the real failure. That happened here. Jeremy was re was what happened afterward. And because many of the reporters were ten thousand journalists and ten fifteen thousand journalists Intel. I should say and this piling on of Richard Jewel and the essentially as as I mentioned earlier this is this is a social pre social media social media story and so the equivalent length of facebook shares and the and the re tweets where media organizations would just repeat or even heighten and turn the dial in a way way to get you an even more sensational story really. Having no evidence there was a there was horrific case here of media Profiling of so Richard Jewell was overweight. Guy He was thirty three he lived with his mother. He had been fired from a couple of jobs. He liked to collect guns and go hunting. And all of that factored into this big stew in which the media sort of said okay. This guy is a Bubba and he actually is perfectly the kind of guy who could have done this. So therefore let's let's really an up and we find out eventually intially can that it was Eric Rudolph. Of course long after Richard Jewel had been cleared. How how did Eric Rudolph confesses in two thousand and five? When did the authorities think that Rudolf might be responsible? Jan Late January in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. This is fourth bombing the Olympic being the first He was spotted. There was a license plate. Id that was tracked back to him but the authorities missed him. You know this is in an in Birmingham. He went back to North Carolina where he lives and he disappeared into Mountains and forests of western North Carolina for the next Five and a half years and the FBI and other law enforcement tried to find and helicopters bloodhounds hundreds of people and evaded capture until until actually two thousand three and he was Any the rest of the in the most unlikely way by By a local COP and happy news for Richard Jews. Richard Jewell ended up being alive to see that happen and So many people have a responsibility for what went wrong here. What is the legacy for law enforcement of the case? How how how people look back at it now? Twenty three years later I think the legacy is Comes down to rush to the judgement and make sure you step back. Take a look at all the facts in this case. There's plenty of reason to look at rituals a suspect but The lessons to you always look for things that exonerate. Someone not just things that might show that he's yielding. This time went on. It was clear there was much more the latter her and the reason was he wasn't guilty. He was guilty of anything to do with the bombing. In fact to he was a hero so I think avoiding a rush to judgment standing back and hoping hoping and praying. The media doesn't get a hold of a case and out somebody based on a leak that was law enforcement sleek because that screws everything up Kevin. It almost sounds sounds naive in. That's not naive but to say that in This Day and age twenty three years later after the advent of Social Media and the twenty four seven news cycle and the constant need to publish the constant need to do live reports on the on the cable news channels that that it would be handled any better by the media today if this happened today this kind of situation. How do you think it would unfold for the media nationally funded? It's not. It's not if it happened. Today it does happen today and We saw it with the Duke Lacrosse players. You know. We saw it in the Boston marathon bombing. We are as a society so desperate to have the answers right now and that it's a very dangerous trend. I think and what happens. Is these these. His name's get surfaced. They get passed around on social media. Everybody moves on except for the person who was in the crosshairs of that and and that person's life doesn't recover in the same way and I think you know it's very easy for us to to blame. I'm the FBI. It's very easy for us to blame the media and they deserve blame but then again we as media consumers also share some of that plane maybe the maybe the point for us to all do is to slow down and wait for accuracy instead of seed. Good luck with that right. I agree it's a bit of a genie bottle question before we let you guys go. And it's such an important book in such an important in story To understand our society today and the role of the media law enforcement as well the book again is suspect and Olympic bombing the FBI the median. Richard Jewell killed a man caught in the middle by Ken. Alexander and Kevin Sow and before we let you go Richard Jewel a dies at the age of forty four twelve years ago. Two thousand seven at the time of his death Kevin How did he consider the arc of the story in his life. Where was he with it? Richard always wanted to be known own as something other than the former suspect. It's not necessarily. He wanted to be known as a hero. He wanted to be a cop. He wanted to be his dream was to be a road deputy. That's what he loved to do. And if that could have been just the way. He was perceived as Richard Jewel law enforcement officer. He would've loved that and he did get to to To live several years of his life laid it As exactly that as a as a patrol officer and And that brought him. That brought him happiness. He ends up getting married. He ends up Well people can read in the book and and really understand the the the the arcus life. There's there's much joy as much unhappiness and I hope people will look will read the suspect or that one thing people forget about sometimes it has. It's a story about the Olympics. and Michael Johnson Terry Stir Carl Lewis Muhammad alleys. And they're your a book on Jesse Owens. He makes an appearance to. He's had a lot to do with the line of getting a game. So there's just an interesting Interesting stories and twists concerns and all this many relating to sports one thing. I remember vividly as well as I haven't seen it. Probably in twenty three years. But the video of Janet Evans. I think being interviewed interview at the moment that the bomb goes off and her her reaction. I think it was the only real time video. We had Janet ended Evans. What are the great swimmers of all time there? I it's something It's something many of us who were alive at the time old enough to appreciate it. We'll never forget Ken Alexander and Kevin Sow in their book is suspect and Olympic bombing the FBI. The median. Richard Jewel demand caught in the Middle Gentlemen. Thanks so much for joining us here in the sporting in life grace German. Great to be with you man. I'm Jeremy Shop and you can listen to new editions of the sporting life every Saturday and Sunday morning on ESPN radio and and ESPN APP. Beginning at six am eastern time. Your home is important. That's why GEICO helps make it easy to save on Homeowner's insurance because home is more than just a place he's home is where you curl up on the couch in a fetal position and cry at cheesy movies even though you've seen them a thousand times and have all the lines memorized you and also you with me and you. The GEICO Insurance Agency can help protect tear-filled comfort zone. You Call Call Geico and see how easy it is to switch and save on Homeowner's insurance.

Richard Jewel FBI Kevin Olympics Richard Ken Alexander Tom Brokaw Centennial Olympic Park Clint Eastwood CNN NBC Sports Security Guard Atlanta Journal FDIC ESPN Jeremy Sharon reporter Europe
Ask The CLO 06.04.20

Best of The Steve Harvey Morning Show

04:03 min | 2 months ago

Ask The CLO 06.04.20

"I'm Katie couric both Saint John I'm an award winning journalist and I'm a trail-blazing marketing executive, and we sound kind of full of ourselves, but together we're hosting a brand new podcast to help us look beyond our pandemic presence. It's called back to Biz with Katie and votes. Each week will interview the leaders and big thinkers in industries from Tech Education to fashion and pop culture to find out how they're adjusting to this new way of life. Listen to back to Biz. Kadian foes on the iheartradio, APP Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. Steve on this break. Let's try to make people laugh. Okay, that's what you're the best at ever this. We're GONNA do a quick fast round seal. Oh okay all right. You can submit your questions to Steve at Steve Harvey FM DOT COM. That's to the CEELO this one. Steve is from jewel in Norfolk Virginia Jewel says I've been married for only three years, and my husband has one flaw that irks me. Me Whenever. We're out. I can be in the middle of a conversation and he staring at a woman with a nice body walking by he also will smile and nod his head at a woman if he gets her attention, he says he's from the south, and that's how men and women greet each other. It really messes up my self esteem when he does it. How can I get him to stop this? Well I mean I don't I. Don't know how to tell you. Give him a stop it, but let's talk about what you just wrote in i. You said what Irks me is I could be in the middle of a conversation. What is he conversations about? Because? Obviously, he ain't paying attention, Oh okay. Alley No, no, no! I'm not no I'm not saying she's doing anything wrong. You Boeing ask compensation. Cheek? Now, the other reason and the real reason is. The reason he does it repeatedly is caused are no consequences for doing it. All they do is irk you. You, he has no consequences and UPN. Our guess what to tell you I'm from south. We gentleman we speaks to women. Were male. Is that the true Hail No. I'm telling you that's what he told her. If you eat enough to go with that, we from the south. Everybody on this show from the South But we are wives, male student module module from south to that's Today on problem. That would work call from south desk to other damn. Crap. Surely, country from the soccer. She really for mogs. Stop along the Chicago. People wouldn't from Chicago. All! From Arkansas. Okay. All right here we go with another question. This is from Sarah and. Terrible Texas. She says I am a forty four year old woman dating a thirty six year old man. And a woman called me recently and said she has been having unprotected sex with my man. My man acted shocked and said his crazy ex. Playing Games needless to say we had sex since I. got the call called his ex in invited her over, so we could talk, but she swears she didn't call me should I. Keep trying to get to the bottom of mess or tell this man to go find someone his age to play with. You, call somebody to come. Get, to the bottom of IT Steve. delayed. He said it didn't have sixty. She's supposed to take her word all right. We gotta go coming up next the saints quarterback drew. BREES is in hot water. We'll talk about what he said. These ball team don't be safe, super, students. Right after this you're listening to. Morning, show.

Steve Harvey Katie couric Norfolk Virginia Jewel Chicago Tech Education Apple executive BREES UPN soccer CEELO Boeing Sarah saints Steve Arkansas Texas forty four year thirty six year three years
Paul W. Hauser Stars In Richard Jewell & Fightfights with Jericho

Talk Is Jericho

1:10:08 hr | 5 months ago

Paul W. Hauser Stars In Richard Jewell & Fightfights with Jericho

"Ricco Dog Ricco. Welcome to talk Jericho. It's the pot a thunder and rock and roll. And we've got a good one today actor. Paul Walter Houser is here on talk is Jericho. He was in Tanya Black Klansman and most importantly his tour to force. He played Richard Jewel in the Clint Eastwood Movie. It also turns out. He was on Chris. Jericho's rock and restaurant see twice. I had no idea and it's actually because of poor during January when we got in a fight that he ended up on this show. It's a great story. Hear all about that and also Paul's working with edge and Christian. How he got into wrestling when he was a kid. He's a big music fan as well. Maybe we'll get him to come on and rock with fuzzy on one of our upcoming dates on the save the world tour which starts next month April Sixteenth Savannah Georgia April Seventeenth at Ninety eight rock festival. Tampa April eighteenth. Wjr's Earth Day. Birthday in Orlando. Then we go to Chattanooga Johnson city which is sold out at Capone's Charlotte Nashville Louisville Baltimore Pittsburgh Cleveland Lancaster Buffalo Iowa city twin city takeover the target center in Minneapolis the Royal Grove in Lincoln. On the ninth of May and then we do the rock fest on July Sixteenth in Wisconsin. Lot more days of just been announced if you go to five zero dot com and of course the kiss cruise for Halloween. We set sail October. Thirtieth all ticket information at five zero DOT COM and check out the VIP meet-and-greet. It's one of the best in the business. We play a mini set. Foia take pictures hanging out. Rory sold out in Buffalo Lancaster. Pittsburgh BUNCH OF PLACES BUT GO TO XEROX DOT COM. See the availability and come. Check out a show right. Check out this show. Actor comedian and Chris Jericho Fist fighter. Poll Walter Houser right here. Talk is Jericho and from watching designating more people are dying from the flu virus. But it's not sexy to talk flee rights so it seems like it's such a is it a pandemic or is it more. Just the media created situation. I think it's probably a bit of both as it usually is which shades of gray you know. I think I think it's something that I'm you know. Praying to God can be contained in figure it out but This kind of feels like the mad cow. Sing where like it was real but it was also sensationalize. Shanna I'm very I'm also during an election. Cycle like twenty twenty right now. I'm also very interested in seeing what diversion tactics pop up based on what's going on in Washington so you know I mean I. I don't mean to go full conspiracy theorist I just mean that there are times where people will exacerbate and give a revisionist history In an aggressive manner to deflect from something else that's going on whether the country's being bombed or whether you know there's a scandal on Capitol Hill or something is interesting because I live in Tampa and every year in September. They talked about the hurricanes. And I'll get calls from my dad. Lives like in Canada or whatever. It's like you know friends and Michigan Duty Okay. They do not even raining here. It just the me. The media's got like the sky is falling. Get your walls boarded up by your water and get your power supplies now sometimes. It is that well one time in the twenty years I've lived there. Was that bad the rest. Nothing happens there's a little bit of a slant put on it for whatever reason. I'm wondering if this might be kind of the same thing but yeah no. I mean narrative is. It's weird I once I. I'm like a church dude. Ama- Jesus Guy My dad's a minister. So like growing up you know there are different narratives that come out of like religion right and there are false narratives and there are tertiary narratives and there. Are you know the root of something that is like the true narrative and it's funny how things can get distorted like a game of phone you know? The more does on Campfire. Yeah and it's like that in the world wrestling to their stories that whenever I I'm I'm buddies a couple of guys like like Cochabamba and Adam Copeland and these guys and when I'm with them I'm usually trying to figure out like what the Hell actually happen is. There's the Internet version right. You know word on the street version. Now give me give it to me straight which is always fascinating see. It's funny though because you're you are get into your all the success. You've had acting all this stuff but you mentioned being big wrestling Fan and knowing Colton and edge but usually when there's guys with notoriety in entertainment or whatever it may be sports you hear through the grapevine that the big fans I had no idea about you and we'll discuss how you are but now that I know I mean do you are in everything I've seen you like lychees soon as I saw you and Richard Jewell McKay. Well He's in Cobra Kai and he's in Tanya Eitan. Yeah Yeah I had no idea. But you're a giant rusting families friends in the business. I think the people you hear about are the more famous ones like Rick Rubin and Rob Gronkowski notably notably more famous than I am. I'm just a character actor who had a good year and a half. You know where people started to see more lifelock by the way do care. Do you care if I have guests. Sit In on this though I just Steve. Borden is dear friend of mine and Barry Windham who you don't really see much outside of maybe like a rest assured hair berry just wanna well. The hair fell off. Get pretty physical. Paul's action figures here. Wow you blew the whole thing. I was hoping to make people think that you'd have to say we never jason. How does anybody very? I don't think you can do that. I sit Wyndham Berry Wyndham. Some candy giving away. That's what is that from Adam Sandler. That's right I'm crazy crazy. Winds so you from you mentioned from Saigon started watching wrestling yes so I was. I was born eighty six. Had An uncle had have an uncle who lives in Florida. Who you know Florida was. Wcw territory NWEA so he he kind of indoctrinated me into wrestling by watching a clash of the champions when I like maybe five or six so early nineties. Wcw was was my intro. And I I loved Arn Anderson. Looked like one of my friend's DAD's like he didn't look like via and he looks like a guy who owned a lumber company like aren't looked old even when he was young. Yeah I know. He looked like wilford grimly. Sixty five thirty five. Yeah but like I loved that portion and then you still had larger than life people whether it was an L. Jontay or staying or whatever but I fell in love with wrestling around then and then ninety five I I started watching. Wcw AND WWF. Sorry wwe God. I DON'T WANNA get cancelled over that right And and just I fell in love. My Dude was staying Because I have this theory. That like as he evolved is a human was evolving. I ninety five ninety seven. Was that sort of push of the crow sting and around that time is eleven twelve years old where. I'm like discovering girls in rock and roll and hip hop and like forming actual opinions and watching more rated r movies and so like as sting went dark. I liked cat my preteen journ around of maturation you know select. The weird thing is mostly happens with and then you know W W of course eight. It and a lot of the great people left and then there was all lies on. Wwe from probably about ninety nine right because Michigan Saginaw Kalamazoo and those areas. It's a big big wrestling area. You know the shows come in there. It's kind of a smaller. Three four thousand seater arena but what the quite regularly especially with. Wcw You guys. You guys are in Saginaw probably once a year and I saw a house show ninety six. I remember the main event was They called it a triangle match between a savage sting and and big show. And then you're on the card against Milenko but my palate at ten was not what it is now so you Milenko. Probably it stands to reason. Had the best match on the card. But ten-year-old made wouldn't have known that right and then ninety seven I went to Nitro and I was sitting second row on hard cam behind you know Raven in the flock and got a bunch of TV. Time where I was holding up signs the whole night and it was like the craziest thing ever where all my friends are like dude and they knew I wanted to be an actor. So they're like you're not only on television wearing your sting shirt but you were also at a wrestling event. Whichever new is my favorite thing. It was always movies and wrestling well. Let's talk about how you got into acting coming from Saigon because you had a great year and a half it. Let's be honest. I mean dude. It was award winning year and a half and with Clint Eastwood and and Richard Jewel How does a small town kid from Saginaw Michigan? Make it in the big time Angeles same as you man I knew what I was good at and I knew what I was interested in. And when you know that at eleven or twelve it really. It's where someone was talking to me about. This recently. Said it's weird. How many things in your life were decided at like eleven or twelve literally mean? That's odd that almost almost embarrassed said that even though I'm happy where I went but yeah no I just knew I love screenwriting. Comedy wrestling by dream was to be on Saturday night. Live and you know to get on. Snl for five seven years. Get off into movies and try to be Rob Reiner and direct. You know that was a dream was eventually direct and so I just did. A bunch of plays start doing. Stand up comedy when I was sixteen and in high school. I was like Max Fisher in the movie. Rushmore where I was like shit when it came to sorry. I don't often cursing and it's good. I was shit when it came to my schoolwork but I was like doing ninety extracurricular activities. Right I was doing literally everything so making short films writing screenplays doing standup doing theater. My high school years were like almost like a pre-college vibe of like. I'm getting my associates right now and then moving on but in my early twenties. I really didn't know what the Hell I was doing. I just written a bunch of scripts a bunch of stuff but didn't really know how to break in and around that time I got wrapped for writing in La so I looked up this company on IMDB their pro website. The extra for that. Yeah you pay extra and I was doing it at seventeen eighteen and I looked up this company that I heard was looking at like Internet comedians. Which was a new thing at the time the advent of funnier die advent of youtube videos and I look at their company in their staff list. And then I go on my space and I type in their staff members names into my space. Find their pages. Send them a direct message. Copy and pasted Ham. Paul Walter Houser. I write and do comedy here my videos. I have a script. Will you look at stuff and one do this Guy Joel? Zadek started repping me when I was twenty years old living in Michigan based off a screenplay wrote in high school. So he thought. Maybe you'll be the next you know Seth Rogan where. You're writing young new comedy I can put you into movies etc didn't happen right away and then when I was like twenty two he introduced me to all these guys from mad. Tv Key and Peele Ike Barunholtz. He's like these guys mad. Tv just got cancelled script for these guys. Mike Hitchcock Oh yeah. I'm I'm friendly with him. I'm a huge fan of Mike. We did a ground lease the other for years but he was a big writer. Imagine that's right. So he was a writer. Mindy Sterling was a director. Yeah they were big. Grindley's People's they brought me into the grounding seen. Oh that makes sense. Because you're proficient in comedy. Not that you weren't before those classes but but you learn a lot like you said the mad. Tv scene which was a sketch comedy. Show all those guys rate Improv community tricks and stuff for you know those little invisible rules so yes no. I served writing a script for key and Peele Long Distance when I was twenty two years old and and then I dropped out of college. I was just getting drunk and eating a lot. I was up to three hundred and thirty pounds at the time and so I was just kind of the Belushi on campus and And I was like I need to get out of here so may of two thousand nine. I bounced from college back to Michigan and six months later I auditioned be a background extra in a movie and ahead Jennifer Connelly. Ed Harris Ed's wife Amy Madigan who I love from field of dreams and uncle buck engine. All these people and I just saw lance black there. The writer director the movie he wrote. He won the Oscar for writing. Milk for Sean Penn. Right I saw them there in a Mike understood a background extra. I'm just GONNA say hi. He'd just won the Oscar so I said hey man just want to say congrats on the movie. I love the film. I loved your speech When you said God doesn't Hate Gay People in your Oscar speech. I love the said that I'm a Christian then needs to be said Moore. That's amazing man. It was forty five seconds. Like we didn't talk too long and he said write your name down. What's your name on a road at Donny? Said there might be a part for you. I like number six on the call. Sheet like the sixth biggest part in the movie. It's called Virginia. Oh very under seen a for reasons. Little sloppy was a little messy but brilliant people given breakneck performances and I made like eighty five hundred bucks and move to La like two months. It was crazy after work. Jennifer connelly and Ed Harrison Shit. See do you consider yourself a comedian? I or an actor I before you answer that the Paul. Let me take a minute to think. Rock AUTO DOT COM ROCK AUTO DOT COM. Is the place to go if you need car parts because they offer the same low prices for yourself mechanics like a Lotta guys listening and for professional mechanics. Rock AUTO DOT COM always offers the lowest price possible and their site is so easy to use. You don't need a membership or an account log in just go to rock auto DOT COM. Choose the make model and year of your car or truck and then find the part you need. It's as easy as that. Rocco DOT COM a family business. That's been serving auto parts customers for twenty years. They've got everything from engine control modules and brake parts tail lamps motor oil windshield wipers. Everything you need. And a few easy clicks and then delivered right to your front door so go to rock auto dot com right now to see all the parts available for your car truck and then check out their low lou. Prices be sure to take Jericho in the. How did you hear about US box? So that they know I sent you. Rock AUTO DOT COM amazing selection reliably low prices. All the parts. Your car or truck it ever going to need and remember. Let them know that. I sent you by Typing. Jericho in the. How did you hear about us? Box ROCK AUTO DOT COM. Take care of your car truck without breaking your bank today. You consider yourself a comedian first actress second because now it's gone beyond comedian. I mean I did stand up for over a decade when I say did it wasn't as consistent as like the guys and gals on wrestling. Who are like doing four different shows a week or something on the indy circuit. I was probably only doing stand up twice a month on average. Yeah so I was getting reps in but not enough and I gave up on comedy so I I wouldn't call myself a comedian but I'm definitely like if was putting a Patel move. You're a Christopher guest movie. I could I could hang. I mean but you're you know what that's like sure MMA gruber and Kevin Smith. You've you know what it's it's interesting to coming from Michigan and to be an actress. Hollywood is so much about you. Know the dashing leading man but there's you mentioned character actor there's Steve chemises and then you mentioned Belushi and those guys as well so it's cool like Jack. Black top leading guy. Yeah but when you first saw some like really what are you thinking like? You're pretty cool that you're getting so many great parts now killer based on your active when you first come to Hollywood. It's like well. Who is this Guy Right? Yeah no I mean showing up it was all about you know I was. I always say this to I was content with far less wasn't if topped out like an H. level and I was like I'm on a roster. I'm still doing shows got to fight a Madison Square Garden twice. Like that would have been more than enough in the acting world. That's you know you're on a Sitcom you're making thirty K. And episode every two weeks and You know the show gets an emmy nomination. I would've been contended topping out there but my dream was to do what Paul Giamati. Philip Seymour. Hoffman John Candy. I Mean People Forget John Candy was in JFK. You know like what I WANNA do. Misshapen character actor thing was my my deal and I didn't know if it would happen or not and then I remember right around the time I was doing smaller pilot for lifetime up in Vancouver. I get a call. An email about the side. Tiny audition came in Here's all the deeds. Incredible Script Margot Robie. Allison Janney attached. Who you know. You got an audition ten days so I go in and and of course in that audition I just went went for. I had to be like twelve pages off book to be you know. Memorize this big big part. The night before I went in for the audition got super stoned because I needed to chill because I wanted it so bad and I knew they had an offer out to Josh Gad. Or somebody and I'm like I'm a backup. Yeah oh I guessed and I guess right. It was Josh So I was a backup choice for that mean Hill. Osmond all these guys were like backup guys that they were characterised Shawn Eckhardt Guy who stages the hit on right and it's carrying but I went in and just like I was coolest cucumber. Went into the audition nailed it and then as I was leaving and I've only done this couple of times but I said I was like. Hey whichever way it falls man. This movie is going to be dope. Like congrats on the movies exciting. I can't wait to see it so I kind of divorce myself from the project and Just like emotionally ended. It's telling to them that like I'm okay. I have somewhere else to be because most people are not dishes are really you know. It's very median. Terrified us and it's hard to addition to cause you'll see you know two or three people just staring at you and someone's reading kind of lifelines like hey how are you. What are you doing and thank you and then you're like that's it. I'm done you know. Okay bye and that's very intimidating as an actor as a performer. Because we all want feedback. That was good. That was bad. That was shit. Thank you can do a better. Yeah you don't have a chance or buzz really good nothing. Nothing based on skin color or height or something. They can decide in twelve seconds. You find that that people would soon as you walk in the room whether you can spit out a line. It's more of a look type thing. I had it for that show shameless. I addition for a guest star on shameless several years ago and I went in and like I mean I gave it everything I did. A very unique take super proud of it knew that I had laugh moments. They looked at me like they looked at me. Like I was in erector set. Come to life with a voice and I was like vomiting. Or they looked at me like something extraterrestrial. It didn't even and in that moment I was just thrown. Because I'm like. These people nauseous nauseated and confused. I don't know how I can salvage this so at the end I go. Is there any and they go? Thank you and they say. Thank you in the six seven. Walked out yeah. You never know man. I try to break the ice. I walk in immediately. I'm I'm calling people and trying to make people laugh. I'm being I'm being the same guy that I am to my family and friends and stuff personnel intimidated. Yeah no I did a show You two seasons of it was called. But I'm Chris Jericho of seed it. Well they the concept was that you know Jericho gets blackballed from us. And he tries to make it as an actor. And there's a scene in there in the first season where I'm doing an audition and the phone rings and the cast and director answers the phone as doing the edition and that's literally happened to be able to hello and who David and I'm here to Glean Clo- and I make I'm talking like come on man. I guess I didn't get the part right. It's wicked on cool. Though Man Sohan cool not nice at all right but so is so eitan. You mentioned that great movie cool move. It was nominated for some awards for three and then Allison. Janney won. Best supporting actress. She was great in it killer. So did you know about the whole? Tonya harding situations. You have to go back and do research on it. No much that Richard. Jewell both both like those mid nineties Olympic stories. That like think of as a little kid there. In my periphery. I didn't really catch on to him but I was busy making pogs out of WWF Matt. I'm Johnson's beautiful breaking of the instead of watching CNN. With my my family no yeah. No I was a dope experienced. They'll let me improvise them play around and buddies with because I improvised in everything I do. I'd rather ask forgiveness than permission so I kinda just go in and add little things and I'll do my chosen and then when I can tell it safe all you know if they don't yell cut especially on like Black Klansman the Spike Lee movie. I did spiked just when you cut. Sometimes he just keep living in it. Just keep going right. Yeah and some of that stuff made it into the movie where I'm like. That's he put that in that moment. It's fine to see what the editor keeps. Her doesn't keep things happens spontaneously. That Work Oh yeah. So you mentioned your mcgrew relate. That whole scene was just Improv. Just mcgrew man was gonNA trip you out and you can. You can fact check it with will forte. But so I back in the day when I was on my face and face for come on neither now thank God back. In the day I was friends with Wolf Forte. On my face in facebook I would just hit them up once every couple of months to ask advice because fan and he was cool enough to do that which I now. Duda other people at school and Forte. I had seen him with gruber screening six months before it came out in Woodland Hills. With my Buddy Pete. Peterson's went and saw early screening. I had all these thoughts and notes afterwards because they ask you what you think about the film. It's a test screening okay. So you're like protest audience right so I send forte a message afterwards saying what's got the biggest laps in the room. What stuff people complained about? And then just give my two cents. It was maybe one hundred and fifty two hundred words Senator facebook message and he thanked me profusely and said like dude we were at a screening in like Newark or somewhere like we didn't get to go to that screening and we're curious what paramount thought. We're waiting to hear back. I so appreciate the notes while and I said to him I I go why. Why don't the wrestler show up as ghosts at the wedding because my shows up and he goes? If paramount gives us money for re-shoots. I WANNA add that. I'll tell your so I never heard back and then I saw the movie theaters and you got you and Mark Henry and we did Wednesday ghosts in the movie. Your boy gave will that idea. But I don't recall seeing it is in the movie. It's in the film now. It's kind of like the return of the you know. The antics skywalker guys just waving. And that's an idea on facebook. See go right to always be listed. That's so funny. What a small world relentless. Let's talk about the crew are the cruise twice and this is nothing. How did I not know that you are on the Jericho crews cut a bunch of my friends were like? Why don't you call up such and such and make sure they know and I was like dude? I don't WanNa be that dude who's like trying to look important. Who's like Hey I'm an actor you know let me hang out with you guys in VIP or some so. I didn't make a stink of it. I just went and had fun and did the deal But yeah last year. My buddy handling went lifelong wrestling fans. That's how we bonded in middle school and stuff. We went and had a blast. The first year 'cause played as mankind. I think there's literally photos on the website and then And I love that. You're too because the tournament was like the stakes were high with that tournament. Ever See of those brothers. What are their names? They beat the shit out of each other. I mean there was no oh God that the match was brutal. We loved the first year. We knew we were going to try to second year first year. By the way I lied to the Cobra Kai producers and told them That I couldn't work on that so like I was doing my deal for Cobra Kai and they're working at the schedule and I told my reps I go tell my need these three to four days and so like it was a point of contention but I was like I can't move it so I literally worked my schedule around the cruise year to. I knew I wanted to go wasn't sure if I could cause I'm like award. Season's coming up ritual got nominated for Kathy Bates Performance and I knew commitments and stuff but I ended up going with four three dudes Jason Strategy John. Bonham was a brilliant musician by John Bonham. Yeah that's Israel brilliant musician dropper show. He's changed his name to John. B Just so he doesn't shed for Johnny bottom or something like that at least right John Jason and my buddy Steve Hamming again. We went this year and I was getting stopped a lot more like the first year only a couple times and then like on the cruise. This year there were like thirty people asking for photos. Pull me aside and autograph stuff and and it was fun so I I know. I vaguely know this woman. Kenley right can lease married to a drummer in the SPAN. There was on the cruise. And she's I'll shoot the one the night we ran into each other the younger guys fear or was it stab. I'd have to see a farewell two fear. It's like four white dudes in their thirties. Farewell Two fear for all the Sierra. So she's she's a musician can lead singer at my church. I tend to church things that she's a killer and husbands drummer so she came up to me and she was like. Hey you know come hang out a come meet Chris. I said Chris and she goes Jericho. Go Oh shit. Like I didn't and I was probably like seven out of ten drunk. Come over and I'm wearing a dodger ball cap backwards Signed by SCU. I've held onto this thing. I make them retrace the autograph every time I see them And I walk up. And you're pretty Cambone boned. I don't know what level because because I didn't deny at the time. I think I was watching. Jerry James Nichols maybe the DANTONIO was years. Yeah and they're doing a strangle cover. Yeah and we're both Rockin. You gave me a look like this like this like you like you might unknown who I was and I knew each other on twitter but I don't know if that means anything so I just. I'm just arrogant starring drunkenly and your Air Guitar Airing. Then you grab my hat off. I had slowly put it on backwards. And we're era guitarist just drunkenly and being silly but a lot of people were watching us. Because everybody's watching you and then I think maybe one eighth of that crowd of sixty people knew I was right. So it's a thing where they're watching US. And then he moved to the front and like twenty twenty five minutes. Go by and we don't interact. We still have my hat on now. Mike kind of want to go to the casino or want to balance. This guy's got my hat on. I don't know how to say it. And some kid puts his arm around you and without looking back or looking at the kid you smacked his arm off like threw it off your shoulder understandably so But the kid was like trying to get you to meet his mom or something. It was awkward moment. But then you you drunkenly backed into me and then turned around and yelled at me and went some something to the effect of like Mother V. Touch me again off in the end. You're somebody that you said something like that and everybody's looking at me like I shoved you or something I didn't. I didn't do a thing. That's the student. Might Mount Rushmore. Of Do you really think I'm trying to upset him? Like that's the last thing. I I walk away awkwardly and I'm like I need that hat I love that so I tell security I go. You gotta give me that hat. I think Jerry has a couple of drinks autism off the security up to grab the hat you're having none of it. Ignore them and then like two minutes to three minutes later you throw the hat backwards and a fan or somebody catches it and brings it over to me. I walked away but it was like I told my buddies and they were like. Oh man that's up because they know what that I'm a fan boy so they were like they're like Oh dude and then Kenley in the next day is like dude? You were both drinking. Like don't worry about it. It's not. He probably doesn't even remember well. So here's the story my end so the crews obviously it's a lot of work for me. Yeah and for a year to put it together doing it so when it's time for me to rock I'm a specific specifically put the bans on certain times right. Now I'm off. We tour regimes Nichols a love of kick axe like a Rubik's cube. Okay so I was just at that point. Just load ski. I think it was the first night or second night. I think second so whatever so after the cruise is done as you. Do we go on twitter or you know you go online and just make sure everybody had a good time. And it's ninety nine percents. That was the best time ever Blah Blah Blah. And somebody posted a tweet. Probably your friend about like oh I know what it was. I was going nuts. Jerry James Nichols shot a video of it and then I was like what a great time or whatever and then someone had tweeted run underneath. Yeah and twenty seconds later. You're a dick to my friend now. I know who I can be how I can be sometimes and I was at the end. The Guy said tell your friend. I'm sorry and I apologize. Which is already more than enough. Dan Actually I think it might have even said give me his twitter handle. I think so. I'll demo myself 'cause you know like you said. Hey we're all having a good time and I get a little ornery. I apologize and he goes. Yeah he's an actor. I'm like far out. That's cool. Is You know Paul. Houser who's in Richard Jewel and I'm like what once again. Why do we not know that the star of police was sterkel? Big Movies is why do I know this? So that's why I reached out to you and that's why we're doing this today but you just never know who is there. Who's watching and of all? The guy is to be a jerk too. It's a guy who's nominated almost like a golden globe. And how do they know? Even on the boat and twice twice and I watched Cobra Kai I watched. I haven't seen because I think it's think comes talk but I'm like how do I not soon as I saw you? That's the Guy From Cobra. Kai The the guy in the school that doesn't quite fit in but he's in the he's in the school but it's just one of those things that blew my mind like I said of all the people be jerked to school. Man It's cool I Yes it was. My friends like to do that. If we're at a concert we're into the they're like even going to a nice restaurant they're like. Do you want to call ahead and say who you are. And I'm like no like there's there's a verse in the Bible that talks about like when you're when when you're at somebody's event you should like sit at the worst spot right and humble yourself and then if the person throwing the event is like hey you should be up here. Then you've been invited in its proper and it'll probably look even better so that's kind of my mentality on that stuff was slash and I have a rule. We we said this to each other. We've never said it and we say if I ever say this company in the head. Don't you know who I am who I am? I have never said that. Slashes never said that and we talked about. It's like anybody that says I do. That's just the Dick thing to say. I don't care if you're Paul McCartney like should not have to tell people you know and if they know who you are and want to give you a nicer spot at the banquet awesome. Thanks so much if they don't don't expect you know hundred percent by the way slashes good buddies with my Buddy Clifton Collins junior cliff yes because I was a huge fan of the stoned age. Oh I'm obsessed with them movie dude. Yeah these Osman and recognize them and didn't realize he was new Tarantino movie like he's almost every he's right now he's now is gear multilateral. How crazy it's amazing. How the guys get gigs because accuse acting show business is not easy because you go from Gig Gig. It's paying the ASS right. Yeah and even when it's good it's tough like that's the other thing is i. Try to tell young actors who asks for advice on like it's Never GonNa get easier. It's going to evolve and you have to be able to evolve with it which you know not to kiss the ring or some shit but like you've been someone who knows how to evolve or at least even if you're going to try something and if that gets over if that hit surf that vibes than it's part of the evolution. Yeah exactly I think you know actress to think you know this guy who just passed. Robert Forster He just died From Jackie Brown. Yeah you know and it was an interesting moment. Where like. He's a celebrated actor. He had a nomination at the Oscars for Jackie Brown later in his career he was doing all these. India's and like adult swim shows and stuff like really like able to reinvent himself in work more and stretches an actor. Even when you're in your seventies which I think is like it's incredible goal right. That's the Goldman I've always. I've always been trying to fuse. Everything though like you've done it too with music wrestling acting entrepreneurship for me. It's it's always wanting to blend writing acting directing and wrestling some regard so like I i. I wrote a movie for edge back when he was doing before he did the edge incursion shows like four years ago. I wrote a movie on SPEC and for free and we send it to. Wwe films and they'd like didn't even register them like they didn't give credits. Yeah and above me out so worked really hard. I thought it was fun. Funny was like role models meets Ferris bueller and edgewood play this X. Rocker. Who's like now a rubber driver and drive around these nerds further bachelor party and show them a good time because they're the biggest imaginable right so like I wrote this movie for him and he went nowhere. We're both bummed about it. And then he calls me in the New Year. This must have been like twenty sixteen. Maybe twenty seventeen. He calls me up. Do you want to write for the edge and Christian show so I wrote for three episodes of really Christian show for sending in sketches and it was stuff because you know it was like my dream job of like I have a paycheck that says wwe. Lana I'm working with you. Know these guys I respect and like but it's tough to translate comedy when you're not in Connecticut producing the right so they were talking stuff right. Yeah Yeah it was just impossible put like that. Was that all these runs of like doing. Ww BACKSTAGE WITH BOOKER T. Riding on the edge and Christian Show. I'm friendly with you. Know the Rhodes brothers and Tony Right. I know cody a little bit. I that was a funny thing to the moment. Cody ditch. Wwe AND I. Without even talking to him I knew what all the reasons were in my head because I studied that company I hit em up on on his e Mail on twitter and said Hey. I know you're interested in acting. I write introducing direct stuff. If you ever WanNa meet let me know so I'm stoned going to a yoga night in West Hollywood and I'm GonNa car and I get a text that says hey man just wanted to know if you WanNa meet up cody are and I'm like who the hell is. Cody are cody's I've ever met and And then I realized. Oh it's it's dude so I hit him back. I took him to like lunch. I bought him lunch at this place. Stout this burger place in Hollywood. I just like a couple of things here story. Wanted to hear what he wants to do. Post wwe and he was very much on the film TV train and said I have some dates with people. I'm going to do occur dangle singer I'm going to do anything and fight these guys on my list but after that it's going to be all about the acting and you know it's funny to see how sharing and then of course you know cut to your biggest role. So far. The Tour de Force Richard Jewel in Clint Eastwood's Richard Jewel. Talk about that but first a word from civic tax relief. Are you having trouble with the IRS? 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Just call one eight hundred to one. Zero six seven seven nine. That's one eight hundred to one. Zero six seven seven nine. Don't wait. The consultation is free. The information is free and this call could save you thousands of dollars literally call now one eight hundred to one. Oh six seven seven nine one eight hundred two zero six seven seven nine about we mentioned by far your biggest role not just in execution awards with the fact that you're the star of Plenty of movie Richard Jewel How did that come on the radar and for people who haven't seen it? Who's Richard Jewel Yemen Richard Jewel? You know he's this guy who in one thousand nine hundred six. When he was Kinda down on his luck just working at temporary security job in Atlanta he was Tasked with watching over all these people as a security team at the Olympics during a concert series and while he was there there was a backpack that was left under a bench and because his mind always went to worst case scenario he was extremist. Who WANTED TO BE? Gi Joe and be the Super Cop. He immediately settle. We don't know what's in the bag. This is the Olympics. Someone might be trying a terrorist attack. We gotTA CALL IT IN CHECKED OUT BY BOMB SQUAD. The guys you know reluctantly. Call the bomb squad. They check it out. Sure enough. The biggest pipebombs. They've ever seen So they have you know t minus ten twenty minutes to clear out as many people as possible before the thing blows up Of course he's a celebrated hero in the seventy two hours post explosion But then when the FBI doesn't have a suspect they looked to the guy who discovered it and they think that he's this hero bomber profile of someone trying to get respect and adoration. Wow by way of thwarting this plan that he himself had had no so I play that guy in the movie really proud of how it turned out of the way it happened was odd back in the fall of two thousand eighteen. I had a meeting with this guy. Mike Ireland one of the VP's at Fox development and as an actor. If you do enough you go on these meetings where they just WanNa meet you. General General. Yeah the water bottle tour so I've done the moment. So yeah I'm on the water belts word this Guy Mike and I know that the ritual project is at Fox at the time and that Joni Hills attached with the Caprio plan the lawyer and I said to him I go. Where's that project that he tells me that it's kind of in development hell it's Limbo? I said You know if if Joan over drops out I'd love to be considered for the role Richard Jewel and he not not like talking down to mere being deflected says like. Oh yeah no the makes sense. Yeah let you know and then cut to six months later. I'm in Thailand. And I'm on this kick where I went sober from pothole call for ten months and then I'm in Thailand a foreign country. I'm not familiar with never traveled. And I'm going nuts because I have all this free time. All I WANNA do is raise spike Lee movie. Got Some new movie with Spike for Netflix. That'll come out this summer and the autumn but I'm going nuts while mayor and I'm having trouble sleepless this trying to lose weight for the movie. I lost thirteen and seven weeks and I'm trying to get in shape for this movie. I get a phone call that says. Hey you've you've been offered the role of Richard Jewel in a TV miniseries. I'm like Oh crazy. And they're like it's in Pittsburgh for four months. They're gonNA pay you more money than you've ever made before new life here all the scripts etc. We're going to try to get more money as they do it. Set Her up right. So I'm like cool mazing. I'm like just let me say they'll go term. Offered off is the elusive. Were THAT ACTORS. Love to hear that means not not notion or put yourself on tape. You're offered meaning you've got the part. Yeah which was slowly starting to happen but that was definitely the biggest one I had happened. So I'm you know I'm tearful thankful and I'm praying and I'm like Oh God lake can't believe I get to do this job and it's going to be an important story. I knew the story a little bit three days later. Chris I got a call from my rep saying you've been offered the role of Richard Jewel in a film. What a competing film to the miniseries. And I go no way. And they're like it's a Clint Eastwood's doing I'm like what because I thought it was Jones? Who was a Fox throwing listen? It's a Mess Jonas. Jonas out because Clint wants you the movies at Fox but Disney bought Fox and Clinton only works warner brothers so I go guys. This sounds like a mess and the fact that they're coming to me is just weird. 'cause I'm not a name actor. Why would clint want you? Did you see you? Clint saw photo of me next to a photo of Richard Jewel that a producer casting director showed him and he just goes that resembles he just squinted. Did his thing and it was like. And that's the guy. Show me some tape on him. They go boss. You've seen Eitan. You've seen black KLANSMAN. You know this actor. And he goes show so they showed him scenes. I did on. Tv show called Kingdom about MMA fighters. Frank Grillo and nick. Jonas showed him the scenes where I played the psycho guys freaking out. And he's he's seeing all these scenes and he goes. Yeah that's the guy so he just shot from the hip. I call a couple of days later saying you've been offered the same role in opposing projects. One is more money than you've ever made in your life. The other Clinton doesn't even know if he can make warner brothers so I have a couple of days. Maybe four days to make a decision on which I'm GONNA choose. Meanwhile the miniseries offers another chunk of money once again. I my dad's a pastor and my mom is a teacher and I have three siblings. I grew up in a shit neighborhood in Saginaw Michigan. Rough neighborhood where. We didn't have any money so the fact that they're offering this almost feels like a slap in the face to my lineage. That I'm not gonNA take you know four months of work and get paid more than my family's overseeing so I'm like fighting through sleeplessness and insomnia in Thailand. I'm alone and I'm just praying trying to figure out what the right thing to do to do. Even just even just as you right now. You know what I mean I know it just. It's yeah it's tough so I said to them on the phone at four in the morning because of the time difference as I said to my reps ago the Bible talks about you can only operate out of fear love you know Perfect love cast south fear. Fear would tell me to take the money love with. Tell me to work with Clint Eastwood. So Tom I pass on the show or clint and they went nuts like in a good way. They were like freaking out cheerleaders over the phone to see. You made the right decision to interject. But it's it's a completely different thing but not really when I was when I left obsidian go to the e the Big Deal. W W was offering me way more. But it's either stay here for the money or go with you know visit man and w which in wrestling world is plenty. Clint Eastwood Diaz Lead in a Clint Eastwood Movie. In say is never made a bad movie. They're all amazing. And what a great thing to put on your resume. The money will come as a result of this right. Now that I appreciate you saying that because that's what my family and colleagues and Of kind of echoed. Some waiting for the next thing there have been people that have entertained me playing Farley or Belushi or different people in bio-pics right now. I just became buddies a with Dallas. And he he got me on. Dp Y which I just started a couple of days ago but I'm doing it for real. I'm doing no alcohol. No sugar no fried food non-combat scarves Not Even Diet Soda. I'm doing the thing for real for the next five months. And here's the crazy part. My Buddy wrote a movie for me to play a wrestler kind of like eastbound and down meets the wrestler Shitty Indie Guy who had never make it but it was like obsessed trying to impress his father little bit of Samba. You know and he wrote this movie. It's hysterical and he wants to play the lead this wrestler guy. The Sh- lovey wrestler dude. We just got funding for the movie right at the time that we got funding for the film that exact week. I Have Dallas. Page calling me saying Bro. I gotTa get you on this Yoga Bro. And I'm like what are the odds that this would happen skinny though because then you won't get the Farley Belushi part I'm not worried about an actress can act. You're like it's like it's like you. You could of Lucians of you know what? What is his name? The pain maker which you brought to the new Japan. That is a very different bill. I put size on for then you six years ago fighting. Kofi or somebody walkie bigger guys if you look at Japanese. That's so much now because times have changed. Look at the show and the Muto's Scott Norton Shoot Scott. They're just big block. You dudes so for me as the pain maker. And as the big he'll foreigner obviously I was watching a Lotta bruiser brody at the time and and six foot six like bruiser was but in this day and age. I'm bigger than everybody else. Of course so let me. Just be a big block easy. Crazy foreigner headline three Tokyo Dome's as a result. And you doing a character that worked Jairo for a raging bull and people will look back and study that and go. This was a whole different iterations. Yeah so I'm I'm doing that with my body right now. I'M GONNA commit five months loses weight as I can. And then hopefully put on a little bit of muscle for this movie in the month that precedes. And then I want to fluctuate know if if somebody really wants me to do for earlier. Blue share something. I'm more than happy to with the Dietitians help do some form of deterioration with a game plan on building me back up after the film shoots so. Let's go back to Richard Jewel for second talk about Clint Eastwood as a director. But I I gotta tell everybody would. They should check out as soon as they finish. Listening to. This chat. You guys need to go. Find Good Company was Scott Bowling on Youtube. It's a great show. All about music hosted by a friend of this show talk Jericho alumni. Scott Bowling Scott is the guy who won the chance to interview me for an episode of talks. Jericho he did the whole episode on Fawzy. It was very very cool. Scott's got his own show. It's called good company. He interviews all kinds of great musicians and talks about their career music creative process playing live favourite albums new stuff they're working on etc etc in-depth always interesting. He does a lot of favorite album stuff to like. I do. He'll have different guys on to run through the favorite metal albums from different decades. And stuff like that. He gets great gas just said. Dj Lethal from house of pain and limp biscuit. He talked to shifty from crazy town Recently Clint Lowery from seven dust at least a dove from the Cherry Bombs Hell yes cal Sanders every member of striper Rich Ward has been on good company a few times as well my partner in crime. I know how much you guys dig music especially rock and heavy metal so give good company. Try really enjoy the show. I know you will as well. You can find it on Youtube just search good company. Scott Bowling also available on facebook just search good company with Scott Bowling a great music show attitude your list Good Company was Scott Bowling. Find it on Youtube and go. Check it out right after you finish listening to me and Paul Walter Houser. So let's go back to the to the Richard Richard Jewel. You decide to do the Eastwood Gig. Yes to the miniseries ever get made in here. They did a good buddy of mine. Emmy nominated actor Cameron Britain from mindhunter on. He played the part. Okay so let's talk about Clinton's a director and I'll tell you a quick little story. I had a clint experience. You know how he's got his whole kind of I don't know if it's a studio or not but he's got his whole office building on the on the lot. Yeah they'll pass he's got. It's like kind of bungalows and it's very old school Hollywood but I had an addition for it. Was it called American sniper about the famous. The Bradley Cooper. Rather cubis American sniper right right once again this is why when you told me that. Clinton called an ass for you because he saw your picture ever. He called my agent her as people. Did you got an addition? I don't do additions but I always say just like good at them. I don't like it if you want me offer anything I've ever done has been offered and you know but I said listen to Steven. Spielberg calls and wants auditioned for the right person. Obviously I'll do it my my manager berries like I remember when you said Steven Spielberg calls. You'll additional my colleagues. No but Clint Eastwood did what Clint Clint Eastwood specifically the the words Chris. Jericho came out of Clint. Eastwood's mouth. Yes he wants you to read for this and I was like why like. I don't know he saw me somewhere. Turn on the TV. Whatever it was so it's one of those ones where I flew in for the day from wherever I was went to the bungalow. Set Down for the shitty audition and there's like you know the addition person the camera and in the back room the back of the room. Clint Eastwood's there. Oh he was there he was there. That's a big deal because he doesn't do that with everybody he's he didn't say anything. They never acknowledged his existence and it was the point. Where like Clint Eastwood? And I would just say hey Mr Eastwood and I did the part. Whatever the audition typical thank you so much and I didn't get the part obviously but when I went to the movie the role that I read for was played by a black dude so he went with You know African America. Obviously I'm not black but that made me feel a little better because it wasn't like short blond haired guy but just the fighting bringing Aaron Eckhart Chris the but just the fact that he asked for me and was there. I just thought that's really cool and very unholy. Would he is very on Hollywood by the Bingo right? Yeah so tell me about going back to my question but what Clinton is the director. Yeah man he's he's he's refreshingly normal he'll tell stories with great self-deprecation in detail. And you know whether it's talking about like Burt Reynolds type or talking about working with Leo or Bradley Cooper. He's he's very he's very He knows that you want to hear the story. He knows that you want to hear. So he's indulging you when he could be looking at a shot list or checking emails doing whatever number of myriad of things that could do. He's always engaging in willing to indulge people and have a conversation and on top of that as an actor the same way that Awa from my limited perspective the same way that they give creative freedom to their roster guys like Clint Eastwood and Spike Lee. Give Craig Freedom they're actors. They're not dictators collaborators and so I mean so like a perfect example would be like Like Clinton would show up and there will be a speech. The speeches perfectly written by writer. Billy Ray who wrote like Captain Phillips and stuff but I would have an idea or two or something to make it more authentic for me and I would just change the speech and I go in and do my version of it. He would say nothing about the script changing the script. Supervisor didn't bother me about it. They just they do another take. So I'm just finding my way through it and getting two to five takes and trying to perfect this thing that I have made malleable and he champions that And he doesn't have to you know. And that's what I said. I went and talked to spike Lee's class. Nyu A couple of weeks ago briefly. I got up there and told them what it was like working with spike and there was a day on black cleanse where Adam driver to three other actors are doing a rehearsal early early on people are just getting to know each other and I didn't have any dialogue in the scene and just crack a joke at the end of the scene for no reason. No animosity I just said and then I say nothing right to make fun of myself. Spike walks over gets on one knee puts his script on his other knee and a pen to the scripting goes. What would your character saying the scene? And I'm thinking I'm in trouble when everybody's looking at me like you just got busted waiting for him to yell. Amir so ship and I tell them I think here I would say that Adam drivers character should name his gun and that I named the Mind Betsy and he goes five days later. I get a script in my email with those lines added to the script and on the day. I said the line of your name your piece Neeman Betsy. It's in the movie but it's this thing that just came out when I was terrified by Spike Lee in this for her so like that spirit of openness malleability I think is Kevin Smith like that too. I did two movies very. What do you got like? Even in the in the James Silent Bob Reboot you were so funny scene but can you dig it. Roll warriors thing. I just did it. Yeah let's do it and my acting. Gigs are much more limited than yours. But I have heard that. Clint does very quick shooting. Usually one gone one and done right mystic river. Sean Penn and those guys were all saying it was one and done even the important vital trailer moments that like the big scenes. Those were wanted so I told people that I got five to ten takes on some money. They were like excuse me like his producer. Said no actor has ever asked for more takes and been given that many. Why did you do more takes? I just asked I have no idea why I you know. I never headline to film so for me. It was the thing of like. I didn't do it neurotic Mike I need more. It was more like two or three scenes where I was like. These scenes are huge leap in the scene. I have to like save. Someone's life in this scene so for those two or three moments. I'd say don't like I think I'm GonNa need some cracks at this. And he was gracious enough to that. He trusts his actors. That's why so he doesn't have to overtake things right. No there's no no baby. No helicopter directing so. What kind of advice is that? You mentioned the funny stories. And the Great Salt William Shatner on this podcast a couple times and just talking with my first movie was Spencer Tracy in Nineteen hundred. I'm like this guy's a national treasure and you forget they got some shatter priceline. Sky Started in the thirties. What is Clint Teaching you? And what did you pick up from him for being a lifelong pro? Because I think he's almost ninety at this point still looks like shit out of us. I mean not giving a shit is a big part of it like really by the way you inhabit that to once again I keep seeing you in some of these examples laying out of like you. Don't strike me as a guy who's going to ask for permission for a lot of what he does. You're probably just going to go do it. And whatever federalists right and I think Clinton is one of those shoot from the hip type of guys now. He's earned that I don't know what he was like in eighty nine when he was prepping unforgiving or something. I don't know what he was like. Then but what I learned from him was very much to trust your instincts to pace things up because I tend to rant and drag stuff out and he would he would come up to me and he'd sampas fingers and going a little more skip to my Lou. I skip to my Lou. Stage yourself more than your skin bro. Am Ninety what do you want from me? No I learned I learned focus and sort of trust from that dude rare simplified tonight over thinks you know and and that's one of those things like you can really pick up from a guy like that and you did to the point. Where what awards did Richard Jewell get? What awards you get I was. I got something called the breakthrough award from the national border of you in New York which they previously have given to people much bigger than me like Jennifer Lawrence and Michael Jordan and A couple of other things We we got a top ten list for best movies of the year for the American Film Institute and then of course Kathy Bates Golden Globe and Oscar nomination which you should speak in national treasures for misery to the water boys and titanic like American horror. Story she's done everything you know. There was talk though about you. Getting some of those big nominations to the worst. Some you know. I was shooting a Disney movie with Emma Stone in London for three and a half months this and shooting with Spike Lee entirely Jones. You're also like this. Hope that namedrop on your foot. No but I'm doing. I did this movie for three and a half months in London and like during that time all. These people were campaigning for award season. So I missed out on the prime time of campaigning And you beat the street as the actor himself to do that hundred percent I mean rockwell when I talked to try to ask him. Rocco about the Oscar experience. He won't even talk about it and I think he's exhausted thinking about it because he knows what it takes to campaign for a lot of work. I had fun with it. I didn't really mind. I like talking. I love people I find ways of making things. That aren't fun fun But yeah no in the future when I don't love. Is that a couple people and you know I'm not letting the internet or twitter. Whatever like actually influence a lot of my thoughts but a lot of people were talking in articles and interviews and stuff saying you know. This guy found his niche. She's like the heavy set weird guy who can play an accommodation and I was like. Yeah but also like. That's just emboldening me to be a psychopath and to prove you wrong. So like I said I put out some tweets that was like I'm excited to prove everyone Confused and that's part of me doing DP younger for five months and going sober and doing this wrestling movie that I'm also co producing Me I wrote a script for Lebron James's production company. We're going out with that next month. I've Osha Jackson junior involved guy He's been on the show before he and I. I wrote these parts for us to play best friends. It's like a movie that takes place in the world of the culinary stuff but like all these things. I'm doing that. No one knows anything about all these projects that just hasn't been reported. I'm just for them to trickle slowly and prove everybody confused and try to save myself. That's GonNa join you need to do in Hollywood. As we talked about earlier about how it's very erratic the work and be up and down but if you can directly produce in your writing. I mean. That's how you become Clint Eastwood do everything and I've directed three short films. I just got funding for my feature that I'm doing a year from now Writing the script right now this Guy Berry Levin. Who's Good Buddies Dallas Steve Austin Berry? He's a big Fan of yours too. I mentioned you a one point. He's done some stuff looks great. He's a big rock and roll guy. Though he helped Detroit Rock city that kiss movie from Ono he did and I think he also he helped like discover Motley crue and stuff so he's just old guy but he's going to help fund him produce my direct to`real debut a year from now. I'm already writing parts for wrestlers and stuff like that. I want to put in the film because I don't know it's just a wrestling is such a crazy world two of like there's so much undiscovered Hollywood talent like David Thiessen Twain. And these guys. It's not. It's not an accident that we say in wrestling. It's it's show business boot camp. Yeah not everybody can do it. But if you learn and you you have aptitude for it. You learn everything. Talk about behind the scenes in front of the scenes. Comedy-drama you know the laugh cry. You know violence stunt work everything. Yeah and spend a lot of plates and just being accountable to the work ethic necessary to show up and do all that stuff as we start to wind down time. What wrestling so you rang. Eight W hat you've fan of all wrestling. What are you into right now? I'm like yeah. I'm all over the map. I was watching a little. Nwf because I'm buddies with Aaron Stevens and and Ricky Morton and some of those guys like chicken on that once in a while. I am a member of Honor Club. So I watch once in a while. But they're the roster Kinda took a serious hit last year or two. It's been tougher to watch. Wwe I support a lot of those guys. And I love I love guys like the revival stree- prophets and there's plenty of people fan of but the product is has become a little to factory farming. So it's tough to really get excited about an invest as many hours as they ask. Aws kind of my mainstay. It was from the beginning and Mom from the start. Yeah no I was. I was I mean. Keep in mind Amazon that cruise in October eighteen. So I sort of saw the trickling in and where it was building. Nothing in Vegas. Yeah so like I'm really behind this this product and the fact that it's about to shows and you guys are building the roster you know the writings on the wall. It's GonNa be a really fun ride for everybody involved and yeah if they ever. I don't know if they want this but like I would love to do Like the guest commentary on darker something promote. What am I going to? It'd make an APP so my agents buddies a Tony Kahn to agent Ryan Bucci. They're they're both like premier league fans and stuff so last question for you. What your Who's your all time favorite wrestler? And what's the favorite part you've ever played? You can't say Richard Jewel. Okay favorite part of ever played. I'll say this show kingdom that I did on the audience network for Direct TV. It was very it. Hasn't been seen by many people. I remember hearing about it but I never saw it. It's a shame you know if it were on Netflix. Hbo We'd all be holding trophies. Like it was that good. So yeah that show kingdom. I play a character who who had a lot of. Ptsd and was on the spectrum for autism and was equally parts like aggressive and unpredictable but also Sweden funny so playing that dichotomy. Like of might like Malkovich of my cement. It was like that vibe which I love but I'm favorite wrestler of all time. GotTA GO Steve Borden. That's sued. We're both Were both Jesus. Freaks and dude got a great reputation in the business. I don't like how it ended. I still hope there is some form of an ellipse. Or postscript to what he's done even in a w I could see him at some point. If you would be willing or the company wanted I could see him in a managerial position. The way aren't until you're doing stuff. But he's too good to not be plugged into the world so the fact that he's just doing fan events pisses me off. I think it's it's just odd and cruelly unfair in my mind but but my my Mount Rushmore. How many faces are on that? Four or five. There's four good I'll give you. We'll we'll my my my four would definitely be Steve. Steve Sting Borden Arn Anderson Bret Hart and Yourself and then if there was a fist probably probably steamboat. I'm a big steam Boca interesting. That you mentioned the steamboat arm. Because to the best CBO might be on mine but people kind of forget those guys forget the only give them a lot of people. He's Logan Flare. You know and some people only get props for their POPs. That's the thing too. Where people they forget the lineage of the the sort of filmography resume of wrestlers. And gotta look at their programs. They did or multiple people for me. Brett just technically sound never heard anybody Believed you believed everything he was doing. Aren't you believed everything he was doing? And his work on the Mike Sting for a million reasons. But you're you're going to be one of those guys you already are but like when they write the books. You are going to be that dude. That's like Mexico. Bc W. W. W. W. W. Japan aid. You're getting to be the dude who spans everything and I don't know if there is a dude that spans everything. Yeah which is crazy and you don't think about that but sometimes you just look back and go like holy smokes man like I. It's not coming up till Thursday. Tennessee areas will be done. So I I won the wrestler of the Air Observer this year all shouted and a third time of one at but the last summer one was two thousand and nine. So it's been eleven years old this guy to ever win it but I don't look at it that way. It's like yeah. I had a great year but oldest guy that came forty nine but I still don't think about it in age and think about it also feel forty two no but also as a character like you mentioned the reinvention keeping yourself relevant and being creatively fulfilled. So yeah it's cooled to to hear these things but I I just think like I'm just doing my thing what I've always done since I was nineteen right. So that's Kinda how flair was. The man flare wasn't looking at his watch wondering when he was just roll with the punches. And you know it was so odd to see him so mistreated at the end of WCW especially by a lack of appreciation from like the board of people involved in and then you see them in wwe and he was like in a faction with hunter and randy and Dave. It's like an instant that's crazy like what Iran man and yeah. I'm excited for I'm excited. Trade W where? It's GonNa go grateful that you made the leap and helped play a massive part in bring legitimacy and I've just had this funny feeling that that people are are all the same way I feel about myself as an actor and creative. I think people are underestimating. Aws really excited to see whatever so far so good and so far so great you get to be a on the third cruise. Of course men are bigger room. Though we split one of those mid mid balcony rooms with with me and three other guys it was asked to ankles sardines man during on the word winning. Now I gotTA spring for the real room but no I had a blast man every year. If I can y'all although I promise next year I won't steal your hat and And tell you to get your hand off me whatever goodman next year. Let's do a shot or something to. I should actually be friends. Thanks brother cheers.

Richard Jewel Chris Jericho wrestling Paul Walter Houser Wwe Michigan Jericho director Farley Belushi Clint Eastwood twitter Hollywood Steve Hamming Youtube Paul Clint Allison Janney facebook US Chris
In 'The Suspect' Richard Jewell's Innocence Is Reconsidered, Over 20 Years After The 1996 Olympics

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

47:37 min | 8 months ago

In 'The Suspect' Richard Jewell's Innocence Is Reconsidered, Over 20 Years After The 1996 Olympics

"From NPR WR BOSTON. I'm David Folkenflik is on point to Atlanta's Olympic stadium the ceremony. How how do you want your heroes do you envision square jawed men with movie star? Good looks from the nineteen fifties a steady voice projecting training and confidence could that someone be not white male or not fit. What about jowly Paunchy? What about not particularly successful socially awkward go back to Nineteen Ninety six and the Atlanta Olympic bombings known was giving Richard Jewel the benefit of that doubt certainly not the FBI? Not The press. You just heard the voice of Bob Costas than NBC's He's chief Olympic's host as jewel came under suspicion for the bombings. Publicly Costas reminded viewers that everyone was presumed innocent until proven guilty for eighty eight days. He's that's a few other. Americans gave ritual the benefit of that doubt a part time private security guard with a weight problem in desire to get a real police badge. He seem more likely to be the wannabe hero-turned bomber that an actual hero who alertly risked his life to save others. This hour on point a new move from Clint Eastwood and a new book. Seek to set. Set the record straight to capture the real Richard Jewel in the ordeal. He endured join us for our listeners. Who are watching at home and especially for those who are in Atlanta? During the summer of Nineteen ninety-six. What are your memories of the ninety six Atlanta Olympics bombing? What do you think of when you hear rituals name? What do you think of the media coverage? In in retrospect you can join US anytime at on point radio DOT ORG or on twitter and facebook and on radio with us today of the co-authors of new and seemingly definitive book on the bombing. It's it's called the suspect in the Olympic bombing the FBI the media and Richard Jewel. The man caught in the middle. The book is also a source of inspiration for new Clint Eastwood Movie Out next weekend. Uncalled simply Richard Jewel. Both of my guests were consultants on the film from Stanford California would would like to welcome Kevin Salwen. He's a former Wall Street Journal reporter. What an editor who ran the paper southeastern section during the nineteen ninety six Olympics Kevin Welk on point great to be with you and from Atlanta? Georgia we're joined by Kent Alexander Former. US Attorney for the northern district of Georgia during the nineteen ninety six Olympics which means he was the Chief Federal Prosecutor for Atlanta and he is in fact a character in this drama as well as a CO author of that book. You can. Hello Ken to you. Thanks David Hi and I also WanNa tell listeners. You can find an excerpt of the suspect at our website insight on point radio dot org so let's a turn back the clock a little bit And and get people into the mindset. I I do WanNa play a brief clip of of the motion picture Richard Jewel. It's still directed by Clint Eastwood. As I mentioned opens later this month among its stars or the actors Jon Hamm Sam Rockwell in a liberal. Livio wild here's a snippet from the trailer Ritchie Your National Hero. Now thank you sir. But I'll still my job. Look at the the bombs always look at the body. Joel fits the profile of the lone bomber the frustrated white man who is a police police wannabe who seeks to become a hero. That is the recreation of Richard Jewel. Now I two stone at seen I do want you to hear. The voice said the man himself on October twentieth. Nineteen Ninety six. Richard Jewel held a news conference in Atlanta shortly after his name was cleared. This is the first time I have ever achieved achieved to turn your cameras on me for eighty eight days. I lived a nightmare for eighty eight days. My mother lived a nightmare too. And it's rush for the headline that the hero was the bomber. The media cared nothing for my feelings as a human being so cannot Alexandra. Alexandra wanted listeners. To have his voice in their heads as we go back and then build right back up. We go back to before the bombing and build up to Richard Jewell's exoneration ration- In which you've played a direct role of course but talk to us. A little bit about centennial park about the aspirations of Atlanta and about the fears that people like you and loss law enforcement had a for the Games as they embarked on this this event on the world stage sure sure well as an Atlanta native. I took huge pride in the Olympics. Coming to the city is everybody did and there was just phenomenal. Excitement would I came on as US turney in one thousand nine hundred four. I spent literally the next couple of years working with law enforcement on security planning for the Olympics because during the course of that time there's the Oklahoma City bombing Yet Waco and Ruby Ridge yet. The First World Trade Center bombing says a real concern about what might happen at the park so we spent a a lot of time on security when the Olympics were being planned. There are a lot of new venues being built. But Billy Payne the really the dreamer who came up with a wonderful idea of bringing the games to Atlanta envisioned having a kind of a town square just in a place opened everybody. That turned into Centennial Olympic Park and was the largest largest park urban new urban park in America in recent times and it was as he envisioned open to the public and it was wonderful all sound stages tents pavilions. It was a great place to be The problem was if at the end it became a soft target as we called it in law enforcement because other venues had magnetometers and a lot of arm security guards this one had people undercover so Just building up to the That the point when Richard Jewel became involved the park was a phenomenal success. There were nine days until the Olympics. Fifty thousand people were showing up at night jamming ramming into the park and it was just a wonderful big gala until it wasn't until it wasn't If you could Ah Kevin Salwen Ah tell us from a journalistic standpoint. When did you first hear that? There had been a bombing and what was your response. Well my personal experience was that I didn't actually hear until the next morning I had been in the park that night but I had small children and I had left. You know as this can said the party. The park was just a nightly party. It was spectacular. There were there was always music playing that kind of thing and I had taken my children home and it wasn't until the next morning when I got a phone call. That said Hey. There was an explosion in the park last night and one person was killed and a second person and died on the way on the way to film at a Turkish cameraman and now all of a sudden the Olympic Games which are this just spectacular. It's Y- you know you to set the scene. It's the largest peacetime event in history. One hundred ninety seven nations are invited every single one of them sends a delegate a team of Athletes and coaches there are two million tickets sold. There is a tremendous television ratings. There's fifteen thousand journalists in town town to cover this and then is all spins out of control in that One overnight incident. We're GONNA talk a after the break in through the show about the roles of Federal investigators at the FBI. And also the media. In all this. But Kevin. I I do want to ask us before the night that summer night. Before that event what would who would you describe to me Richard Jewel as being. How would you characterize him to me? Richard Jewel was He was a quirky entertaining. Very Gregarious. local police policeman. He you know I in your intro. You said he was kind of a wannabe cop. Well actually Richard Jewel hat was a licensed law enforcement officer of the State of Georgia. He had he had broken into law enforcement. Five years earlier he worked for the Habersham County Sheriff's Office which was a about seventy five miles north of Atlanta. He had A horrific driving ving record. That helped get him essentially fired from that job. He got demoted and then he decided to quit after that he had worked as as a campus police officer at a small college. Not far from there and Again he was twos zealous he was he was essentially fired from that job so he had come to Blanda. He was living with his mother which comes into play and Decided to get a job insecurity working at the park just to bridge until law enforcement departments were hiring again and then he was going to look for another job and so how important can Alexandra was. the fact that Richard Jewel had this Essentially I think minimum wage job one that would of specific duration but nonetheless of if this high profile nature alongside police from Georgia Bureau of Investigation the FBI ATF and other type of law enforcement officials. How how was it before the Olympics? Or how important was it to him that he had this hugely important to him This was his pride and joy he felt like he every eighty five or and his body was designed to be a law enforcement officer so he took his job really seriously. It was Many people said to Kevin and me as we interviewed viewed hundred eighty or so folks that he he basically ate slept and breathed law enforcement in fact Couple of his bosses Both at Habur Sham. If he'd my college where a little concerned that he was almost two into his job and so let's let's just take a brief moment. The only got a couple minutes before this I bring. But what does he do. He sees a backpack under a bench near one of the towers where people are sort of surveying surveying and doing other things in creating the entertainment. What does he do when he spots that he spots the pack and he flags down or return to a guy named? Tom Davis George Bureau. Investigation Agent Gbi agent and says that. That shouldn't be there they must this. Some guys must've left this the two of them check around around the nobody. They can't find anybody. And so Richard jewell turns to Tom Dave's instead what are we gonNa do about this situation grabbing his best and Tom Davis Davis is saying what situation. And there've been so many packages left behind suspicious packages but Tom Davies follow protocol and then sets in a series of Steps where law enforcement comes to take a look at what exactly is under that bench and things unfolded from there Like word Richard Jewell's it was hailed as a hero at that tide light play fold from. WHO's then president United States a day after the Olympic bombing President Clinton spoke from the White House to praise those charged with keeping the Olympic safe? I I want to thank the brave security personnel. who were on the scene? They saw the package. They alerted the bomb squad. They cleared the crowd they. They prevented a much greater loss of life. That package was actually designed to kill. One woman was fatally wounded at that time. A cameraman from abroad God. had a fatal heart attack in rushing to try to cover the event many more than one hundred other people were injured. Richard Jewel Act to help save lives. We'll hear about what what he did and what he was then believed to have done after this break. We're discussing the life and significance of Richard Jewel. The man wrongly under suspicion as the person responsible for those fatal bombings at the nineteen ninety six Olympics and whose life was forever changed as result. Join our conversation about Richard Jewel about federal investigation of press and the man really behind the string of deadly bombings were joined by the CO authors of a new meticulously researched book. That ships are understanding of what took place. I'm David Folkenflik. And this is on point You're an American a Russian and Ukrainian walk into a bar. You know this is not the impeachment hearings. It's comedy competition in Ukraine. I'm Gregory Warner. The high stakes of comedy in a country led by a comedian. It's a social mission to unite the country on rough translation from NPR. This is on point. I'm David Folkenflik. We're looking back generation to the bombing of the nine hundred ninety six Olympics in Atlanta and the man caught in the Middle Richard Jewel. That's that's the subject of a new book. The books author with me. Today you can join our conversation for people of Atlanta and people visiting the Olympic at that time. What was the legacy of those games for you? What what do you remember about Richard Jewel and what he endured what of the coverage but the hometown land journal Constitution and national outlets including NBC? Follow us on twitter. Find US on facebook at on point radio with US Kevin Salwen He's Foreign Wall Street Journal reporter and editor he is CO author of that new book called the suspect and his Co author can't Alexander former former. US Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia at the time of the nineteen ninety six Olympics. I want briefly. Take a couple of quick calls your quick remembrances from kittery. Gene Darlene is calling in a darling. You recall it this time. Hi How do you do thank you for taking my call on. I remember that day very well. Oh and very vividly. My I have very close ties to Atlanta and my best friend was visiting being in California from Atlanta and we were camping camping and we got up to the next morning to go out to breakfast to find that there was a bombing in Atlanta. That night the sorry the night previous and we were unable to get in touch with friends and family and it was. It was an excruciating couple hours until we got in touch with friends because they they were at that event the night before And I tell you every time I go back to Atlanta and we at that area. It is creepy creepy to say the least to go down your Centennial Park. Yes it is. It's it's it's a beautiful place but it you can feel there's IT I don't know it's just. It was kind of a stain on the area of something that was meant to be really beautiful and turned out to be really bad. So well thank you for that Darlene. Ken Alexander Your A native Georgian. You're from Atlanta. What is your reaction to the visceral reaction when you go bicentennial park now? It's changed over time. My visceral reaction used to be exactly like Orleans. It was just painful to see especially this fans shaped Greek sculpture. Sure this there that still has shrapnel in it but as time's gone on A. B. Park has gone through different metamorphosis and it's it's a fun place lot of huge events The only time I really had a visceral reaction again when I was down one night and they fit fourth of July fireworks and I can't be there for Fourth of July fireworks but I really we liked park. Otherwise I'd like to take a call now also from Greenville Georgia Ben. Thanks for listening and calling in thank you for taking my call Sir Her I just yes sir. I was not involved with the Atlanta. You know what had actually happened since lived in the areas Where Michigan what was from and I think what would have been helpful to the people that were putting together? Profiles was to understand those folks because when you talk about Mary Weather County and also the area where Mr Joel was from Not a lot of job opportunities but very earnest group of people. You know whenever they're into something they are really into it and that probably would have been very beneficial to the people that have made judgments about Mr Joel. The time period area. I just wanted to add that to the conversation so glad you did. Ben Thanks for calling in Kevin Salwen. Let's talk a little bit. About how Richard Jewel. who had urged brought brought the backpack to the attention of other law enforcement officials? Tried to you know get equipment into essentially a diffused. The machine gene tried to get people out even time to kind of hollering at them to get away to take it seriously. How did he Swing into view as a suspect among so many other possible people For the chief investigators for the FBI. For Don Johnson says keep figuring this in this saga right Richard appeared on several CNN interviews He was found out that he was the person who had located the pack and so oh At and T.. Who was his employer helped to broker some interviews that he did on as I said? CNN He did he did some newspaper interviews reviews with the with USA Today. The Boston Globe and the Atlanta Journal Constitution and Then on Tuesday mornings so essentially two days after I heard the bombing He goes on the today show with Katie couric and she refers to him as a hero and he gives You know essentially the response that that he was he was absolutely conditioned to do. which is that the real heroes with the law enforcement who helped push away the crowd and save lives lives and What he doesn't know is that as he's leaving that interview and as he's leaving the park he is being tailed by the FBI and and Can't do you WanNa talk a little bit about about what's going on in Quantico. Yeah so in Quantico. There's a behavioral science unit. It was called actually something else time but bs us what we still call it. And they got word of About ritual and they took a look at these videos from CNN. Dan and this is the group that was featured silence of the lambs with Jodie foster so they decided to take a close look at Dan at Atlanta's urging because as Kevin Kevin may earlier you always take a look at the person who found the bomb so They they looked and they issued a report that was four pages. Long single spaced We've we found it Through through another source I hadn't seen it in twenty three years but recognize it immediately and it was two parts of the first part was interview advice on how to actually interview Richard Jewel and there was a there is an interview a that was soft interview and there was to be an interview which is a hard hitting interview days later in interviews. Both were at least a day or two off part. The second part of it was a profile. Not of the generic bomber is reported in the press at the time and sense but it was really a profile file of Richard Jewel and why he was likely the bomber and even though there was disclaimer language it effectively effectively painted him as the bomber. Can I just read from that moment. Ken here in Chapter Twelve You publish from this and let me just say listeners. This is meticulously constructed. You guys are drawing from three documents. which are these clearly the raw interviews that the agents have done and and videotapes from all kinds of different players contemporaneous contemporaneous I think your own journals those of the actual killer who will talk about later? I just like folks. This is really detailed thing. But in this. This is the The profile of of Richard Jewel and it says jewel is quote WanNa be cop unquote. He also gives every indication of suffering and inadequate personality and requires the trappings of a law enforcement officer Badge had uniform etc command respect unfortunately from his loss of jobs in law enforcement they're force without those things which he needs to feel like a complete man and then they say basically what what better way to become a hero the bigger threat. The bigger the hero discovery of a hoax advice would not even be newsworthy. Imagining what a hero. He would be. If the device was discovered disarmed the media it would be reporting that the device would killed wounded scores. Had it not been for the heroics of Richard Jewel this up very damning profile. This feels like an indictment and conviction vixen all on the same page. It was extraordinary and I will say the Behavioral Science folks at Quantico have solves helped solve some amazing crime since always a tool for an investigation. It's not what evidence but that profile played an oversize role in driving the investigation. And the description you just just read which is very damning in part matched up with independent interviews being conducted in north Georgia area. That you're earlier collared reference where people said that Rituals I WANNA BE COP. He was a little over zealous. This that the other And those two The confluence of the interviews in what was said in the profile came came came together and it was It just spun out of control from there just There was an assumption. Really that Richard Jewell was the guy even though there had been two suspects suspects before Richard Jewel. Everything that point shifted to Richard. Want to take a quick call from Omaha Nebraska. John Thank you for listening. Share your thoughts on this. Hi I As I as on your screener I was please and and was one of two thousand police officers that worked at the Olympics. There were Sixty percent of us from the United States forty percent from all other countries around. Don't in my particular job. is I thought security at the tennis venue stone mountain during the daytime shows and each one of the police officers their Schwartz ousters had Three or four W- civilian securities assigned to them so large security presence Those people people did wonderful jobs. We're dealing with a lot of crowds. But I guess my point was is after the bomb went off. I I was in the park. I was at the dormitory Athens and I had headphones on. I was actually sleeping. But they said a bomb went off and I immediately woke up but As I said from then on the whole Olympics it was too bad because it changed You know we were serious. Ariston our work. It was fun we were having. You know joy meeting the people but after the day after that bomb it got real serious and people just weren't It did seem like people were having a lot of. They were having fun. They wanted to be there but it took on a whole different tone. I know it's really too bad and I was actually sad for the United States. John Tonight can I ask you one quick question before I let you go which is I'm going to talk with our guests a little bit about about the the the publication and disclosure that he was a suspect from from the fats but just from your own standpoint. Somebody who retired police officer somebody working security security there When that became news when that shows up in the J. C. Journal Constitution Atlanta or on CNN or other networks did you initially response response and With anger at him where you responding in sort of Indignant that one of your own would be accused like where. How did it hit you when that was Was was disclosed is interesting in Nineteen ninety-one attendance national. FBI actually took a course and be on the behavioral science. She used to of course down there and the other gentleman. I was down there with we. We were talking about this and funnily enough we both said well we. We just wanted them to get it right we. We hope I didn't have. I didn't have a feeling I don't think one way or another but was him. We I think we all just wanted him to get it right and it. It's it's a hard job to do and you have to go where your evidence is taking you but I I feel one way or another about him all right. Well thank you for that John I want to turn back to you guys my co authors on this but the her not Michael author but the CO authors. There's on this book I I sure didn't put in the years on this Talk a little bit about that. There seemed to be a breakdown. Here where Kevin assaulting there was a reliance as you guys report on the profile not only to inform interview but to sort of determined that the interview should find him conclusive guilt Evidence of his guilt that is predetermined. Not who to talk just to talk to you but who to you should try to get the indictment on and secondly it seemed as though the FBI acted or at least FBI in the form of Don Johnson was leading the interrogations of A Richard Jewel ultimately ended up misleading him and doing so in a way that raise concerns at the highest levels of the justice. Bartman the FBI. Let let me toss that one over can't because he really was the guy who was inside the F. B. I.. Rise will this. I mean this is your this. Is Your Institution this guy who works essentially as your investigators right. You're the chief U. S. Prosecutor for for for Northern District of Georgia. You're ultimately acted in ways that you wouldn't really WanNa the have to defend publicly. It seems to me you're correct and in fact when When I heard the tape there Baloney backup got you had said earlier? That Richard Jewell was wrongly under suspicion and just to clarify bit. There are a lot of things that suggested he should be. We looked at the FBI. Absolutely should have looked at him but some of the things done along the way and I think First and foremost that interview in the way it happened Were were just wrong. So in that instance The FBI agent was bringing Richard Jewell in he the story in the Atlanta newspaper the AJC AC was breaking that. Richard Jewell was the suspect. There had been a leak out of law enforcement which side by side comment is inexcusable. But there had been a leak so the story was coming coming out. The interview is rushed the profile had laid out this to step interview process. The FBI shifted to plan B.. Richard Jewell was brought in in on the pretext that it was a training video and I know that people find that really offensive to have a pretext and something and something like this but at the time people thought ritual was actually the bomber and just like with the. Da when they have drug dealers pose or agents Drug dealers here. They were just trying to get him into speak so though it does that doesn't look the worst part wasn't really that the worst part was the issuance of Miranda rights. Because Richard Lewis was. Let me get to that in a moment. I'm David Folkenflik and this is on point. Can Alexander tells briefly about the Miranda rights question. That is you know the right that we hear in law and order all the time right. Yeah right to an attorney right to remain silent all of that in this instance Richard Jewels on the fourth floor of the FBI. The agents are questioning him. Cameras Rolling down the hall along with the head of the F. B. I. Offs and a few others Louie Freeh the director of the FBI Merrick Garland from the Justice Department in Washington with others. And we're all on the phone call comes in and the director Louis. Freeh says interrupted interview reading his rights. And Mind you. At that point. The thinking in Washington Atlanta was Richard Jewel was likely the bomber based on this profile and some other evidence that came in. So it's hard to say whether that was really out of concern for Richard Jewell or whether it was more to preserve what he said to be used later either way there was a knock on the door. Were FBI where ritual was with the agents. One agent came out he was told. Read them the rights. They took a break in the interview. Both agents came out. Don Johnson was apoplectic. That's actually never done you. Just don't interrupt an interview if somebody's not under arrest not in custody because that's when you have Miranda rights read when you're in custody but he went back in and there was no lie feed to the outside nobody on the outside including me. Outside of that room knew there was a pretext knew there was a ruse training video. And certainly nobody listen into how those rights were delivered and the way they were delivered and we we try to write this all in a suspenseful novel like way. I hope it reads a little like a novel But it's just it's the truth than the what ended up happening is Don Johnson Said something to the effect We're GONNA treat this like it's a real interview. And then he goes on to read the rights and a light bulb goes off. And it's quite a moment in the quite a moment when When Richard Jewel realizes he's not being interviewed for training video? He's not for first responders He's the suspect and at that point. Roy He asked for an attorney. It really is Ken Alexander a moment as there are many moments in this book. Where are you realize that I mean? I felt some sympathy for Don Johnson. Being interrupted by his boss's boss's boss's boss's boss told exactly what he couldn't couldn't do and at the same time for Richard Jewel the stakes are supreme and the the deception That was attempted. There seemed to be pretty stark Starkly against against the spirit and rules that had been set up to protect suspects who nonetheless are entitled to the presumption of innocence. So we're going to ask you guys to hold on. We're speaking with the authors of this new book out about Richard Jewel in the legacy of the nineteen ninety-six bombing at the Atlanta Olympics. It's called the suspect. You can join our conversation. Who Do you blame for? What went wrong? The feds the press. Something else we're going to talk a little bit about the media's role In its decision to publish Richard Jewell's name What are the lessons of his ordeal? I'm David Folkenflik and this is on point this week on. Ask me another. We challenge singer polical to a game about birds but not before she quizzes us. You're a mourning dove. Yes this more on. NPR's asked me and other listen now. This is on point I'm NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik. We're turning the clock back to nineteen ninety-six when a bomb wreaked havoc havoc on the Atlanta Olympics. Killing one leading to the death of another injuring more than one hundred people additionally an up ending the life of security guard Richard. Jewell you you can join our conversation. What questions do you have for my guests? Follow us on twitter. Find US on facebook at on point radio with us. The co-authors of new book about ritual called the suspect Kevin Salwen in his former Wall Street Journal reporter and editor. He joins us from California and with us from Atlanta Kent Alexander Former. US Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia at the time of the nineteen ninety six Olympics. Wchs they're also consultants on the new. Clint Eastwood Movie Coming Out. Next week called Richard Jewel. I WANNA take a few calls to start This segment and to help inform our conversation as it goes forward. I I WANNA take a call from Jackie's calling from Decatur Georgia. Thanks for calling in Jack say everybody doing. Thanks thanks for taking my call. in ninety six My wife and my son was six years old. We lived in the Atlanta suburbs in Snowville and we loved loved the park. We came in virtually every night. And we're in the car park the night of the bombing we had just left. We've seen the breakage and ban Beausoleil had a really wonderful time And heard about the explosion on the way home on the radio news pretty upsetting but the thing that amazed me was several years later I came home from work one night and found a kind of an official looking document tape to my front door. It would be. ATF agent And they wanted to talk to me and I did talk to them. I didn't have much to say to them. But the thoroughness of it all amazing. I realized that they contacted me. Because so you can. ATM in the park that night. They'll go to try to nail that down it because of course it took a number of years to to bring the right person into custody. Thank thank you jack for calling in for sharing that interesting moment. Bev is calling from Freeport Maine. Thanks for Listening Bev. Hi How are you good. Hello skied sky tells your thoughts. Well my thought was a memory that I had. That's actually one of my strongest memories for me not just around on the Olympics but in general and that is I was listening to a news broadcast and it was a national network. I don't know which one and a reporter was talking about Richard Jewel in the sort of time when he was up. I think we bevy there. Well We. I'm sorry to have lost OSTEO. But let's move onto a Milwaukee Wisconsin. Tom Thank you for listening. What are your thoughts here? Hi I would like to ask your guest At the time I had heard an allegation that the FBI against the protocol had released. Richard Jewell's name in order to put pressure upon him and wondered if that was true. Well thank you for that. Call Tom so Ken Alexander. You guys actually do some detective of work and determine the the source of the story that was published in the journal Constitution. which is what I want to turn to in just a few seconds but it is sort of reveal deal so I wasn't preparing to reveal that necessarily although this is a true story you can decide what you want on that but let me ask you the question that Tom's asking in some ways the hardest is is it a tactic of the FBI or of some of its agents to release information as way of trying to a leak information rather than officially announce it as a way of trying to flush out information or raise pressure on a possible suspect. But Tom I can tell you. In this case it was not a tactic that was Employed by the supervisors when Richard Jewell's name came up came out in the press. There was pounding all around it was it went completely league against the grain of what the strategy was the time. So I won't get into the reveal but I will tell you that both Kevin Sal and my co author and I were shocked as as as have been former. FBI Atlanta Police GBI agents others to find out who the leaker was. It isn't a tremendous work of journalism. There I got to. I'd say as a guy who's written a book although it's been some years I did do some sixty pages of footnotes. I would've wanted to actually go through and read yours. Had you done it. I know you did sort of more general descriptions where you got stuff from. I'd be fascinated with that. I'd want to know just as a reporter. I'd WanNa know how you got certain kinds of documentation for some of the stuff you said but you do a characterize it so it's not as though there's no transparency currency there Let us turn Kevin Salween to the question of the story the late Kathy scruggs was was a law enforcement person reporter a really strong character to finding presence in some ways for the Atlanta Journal. Constitution's metro staff and she broke this story. Tell US sketch a little bit of a portrait Richard of her and then tell us how the AJC broke this story at a time and and how they presented it to the public at a time the entire higher national and in some ways much of the global press corps was not only focused on this issue of the bombing of the Olympics but was present in Atlanta trying to chase that story as well. Kathy scruggs was a larger than life. Character someone who described her to us as living in technicolor. While the rest of the newsroom room was in black and white she was She was Provi- she dressed provocatively always with a button. Up One button open more than it should be. She was She was very attractive. She was a heavy drinker. A heavy smoker. She was profane. She kept a gun in her purse next to her perfume. Humor and the cops loved her. She was extraordinarily well sourced as a police reporter and After the A bomb goes off. Many people within the newsroom are expecting. They'll get a tie on this. In other words it will be eventually a suspect will be announced or someone will be charged by the FBI and they will be essentially equal to everybody else. The the Atlanta Journal Constitution. We'll have that story when everybody else does Kathy scruggs kind of had a motto of. I'm not in the business of being last. And so she worked extraordinarily really hard to figure out. Okay who is the WHO is law enforcement looking at and Learns from one of her sources. Yes exactly who they are looking at and the lead suspect is Richard Jewel and so the Atlanta Journal Constitution as you point out names him and they say he has emerged as a leading suspect for this and that federal investigators are focusing on him. And they do it as you point out. In what's called journalism. It wasn't the act of God which is to say there's no comma. According to three law enforcement sources. We talked to her according to an investigator according to you know to defense or whatever ever there's no indication that that anybody was spoken to just that the JC is doing this because as you report in your book they basically promised their source. They're not even name the agency or the institutional affinity that this person affiliation that this person has in order to protect her him or her and she does this and of course becomes international news. This is something that's attacked by by by jewel will by the attorneys. He quickly hires Or not so quickly. But ultimately hires and is ultimately something that He sues aggressively of Lee a number of major news organizations for and B. C. News. Tom Brokaw says out loud. I want to read the quote allowed because it's kind of incredible. He says allowed on the air. The speculation collation is that the FBI is close to quote making the case on quote in their language. They probably have enough to arrest him right now. Probably enough to prosecute him. Of course jewel was never arrested tested and never prosecuted. That's three speculative words contained in their CNN a holds up a copy of the Atlanta Constitution. you know a a number of news organizations payoff Richard Jewel. They pay him for damages. Done twos character ultimately as a as the Munson Years ensued the Atlanta Journal Constitution. It doesn't I WANNA play a clip from one of her colleagues Her reporting partner Ron Martz a spoke with the New York Times online video series. He's retro report back in two thousand thirteen. He robustly defended as the paper. Itself did The Atlanta Journal Constitution's decision to publish the news. There's no way that anybody can convince me that. We live old Richard Jewel. The information we print it was that he was the focus of the investigation. He was is the focus of the investigation. My sorry for what happened to Richard Jewel. Yes I'm sorry for what happened to Richard Jewel. But I don't feel responsible for what happened to him. Now let me say. Also Richard Jewel is no longer alive. Kathy scruggs herself died in two thousand one of an overdose prescription drugs and a number of folks in your book seemed to attribute Part of her deterioration to the aftermath of this Story that happened five years earlier The Atlanta Journal Constitution ultimately was upheld upheld in court and found that what they published with substantially true that the feds were looking at him and therefore they didn't Defame Him. They didn't wrongly treat him from a journalistic standpoint. Kevin Salwen how do you feel about what the AJC The decisions the AJC made in this coverage. Well first of all all David. There's no doubt that As Ron Martz said in that clip that Richard Jewell was the lead suspect for the FBI. What Kathy scruggs drugs learned and what? The paper eventually reported was for the most part completely accurate We could I think we can. And maybe we should in this country have a discussion about about whether newsrooms ought to publish the name of people who have not been arrested not been charged but the law in this country says that if that if something is true you can run it in the newspaper where you can put it on air. And that's actually what happened. I've been with the Wall Street with the Atlanta Journal Constitution after that though is where things started to snowball because it this is very much a pre social media social media story. If you think about it they're fifteen thousand journalists in town nineteen ninety-six fixes this kind of remarkable year in journalism where. CNN is already up and running but you have MSNBC STARTS UP THAT YEAR Fox Fox News Channel starts up that year The New York Times The Wall Street Journal on a number of other publications go online for the first time and so now all of a a sudden the pace within newsrooms accelerates tremendously and the public starts to become reconditioned to say. I Want my information right now right now. And this. What you end up doing is starting to swap out accuracy for immediacy and as you can see within our current social media environment and our current media environment in general that has only accelerated since nineteen eighteen? Ninety six Kevin saw. When you're talking about the innovations both cable news in the competition in Cable News for the first time that emerged in a few months after the Olympics with the surfacing pissing of MSNBC and Fox News into full view and also the sort of commercialization of the consumer oriented World Wide Web where suddenly people could post things online even it was relatively rudimentary to how we think about it today? part of the problem with that first story. It seemed to me was that they were incorporating some of the profiling language that had been given to them my guess by their most important source so they had additional sources confirming that Richard Jewell was in the sights of some of these investigators and also didn't attribute tribute that it seemed as though they were characterizing it in the JC was putting itself behind it that said the JC journal-constitution then did some real reporting ultimately in the weeks that followed casting acting doubt on that conclusion. Trying to say wait a second could he have gotten from the payphone where the bomber was supposed to have Made a threatening call to nine one one and still been there in time to warn people away from the benches and it seemed as though the JC was was doing some taking some initiative as well to to raise skeptical questions about that conclusion nonetheless. Cabinet your newspaper. The Wall Street Journal. My son says you guys were much more careful and much more protective of the idea of jewel as suspect deserving presumption of innocence. Rather than somebody saying. That's the guy. Well you know in the in the in the days and weeks after the Atlanta Journal Constitution and break the story and CNN bakes an international story There were there. Were really two decisions that were made within newsrooms one was to go the pylon route so in other words you had the New York Post running a newspaper covered that said saint or savage question mark with a picture of Richard Jewel and they called him a failed fat sheriff's deputy and they called him the village Rambo Oh and Jay Leno called him the unit office. And you already played the clip from Tom. Brokaw see you had all of this piling on. There were several news organizations the The New York Times The Wall Street Journal leading the way on that that were way more cautious and then it wasn't until it looked like the FBI be. I really didn't have enough for a case or certainly wasn't publicly. Making a case that you had publications like the Atlanta Journal Constitution Kevin Starting to lead the way in questioning whether Richard Jewel really was the guy and Kathy scruggs was among those those doing that. I have to ask There have been a bit of a controversy. Kevin can each of you just briefly about the movie that Clint Eastwood has directed in that. You guys guys were consultants on in which scruggs is depicted as effectively trading sex for the initial scoop about jewel The actor Olivia Wilde has defended. Did that Presentation of scruggs. That is not something that's included in your book. The Atlanta Journal Constitution wrote a story. Basically saying that never happened How comfortable are you with that? The INC Gratien we lose corporation of that as as an element of the story is presented in what's presented effectively a a nonfiction film. This is can't i. I let me start by saying the film is Great. I know both of us love the film and I think they got the story in the main right. But it's not a documentary humanity. So I think any based on the true story film that I've ever seen is just that it's based on the true story in our book. What we try to do just just putting all that aside is just lay out? Lay out the story as we as we found. It and Kathy scruggs are really colorful character. Olivia Wilde did an unbelievable job Acting as Kathy scruggs and if there are differences or if there are Some licenses taken. That just happens in movies. I I think a lot and I think that's why people write books and like to read books because you go to movies to be entertained. Find out the general story and In the case of Clint Eastwood he's done produce another masterpiece and Ken. You WanNa find out about the story. The book can't let me give you the last word last thirty seconds. To what degree does this episode that you guys capture so nicely and importantly reflect the kind of skepticism towards major institutions. That we experienced right now. I think people Look at government and they look at the media and they've got questions because there are Russia's to judgement and one thing that we hope this book shows is Uh when their names that surface in the media or an investigation. There's always a human being involved and law enforcement stops leaking and and thinks twice before somebody leaks media before the name. Start getting echoed out. There you're hearing recognized. There's a human being. You're hearing there from Ken Alexander for the US US attorney for the northern district of Georgia. Thanks to you for your time. Also thank you to Kevin Salwen Former Wall Street Journal reporter and editor their coffers of new book about Richard Jewel. My Name's David Folkenflik. You've been and listening to on point.

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